The Sun.
London, England, 1853-04-05 00:00:00

NATIONAL EDUCATION.

Lord J. RUSSELL—I have now, in pursance of the no-
tice I have given, to state generally the intentions of the
government with regard to the important subject of edu-
cation ; and in so doing I certainly shall not think it neces-
sary to ask for the attention of the house, because I am
sure that, however inadequately I may perform the duty
which I am called on to undertake, the subject is one of
so much importance, and affects so deeply the religion, the
morality, and the future well being of the country, that
this house will readily give their attention to any state-
ments which may be made, and to any propositions that
may be brought forward by the Government upon a sub-
ject of this nature. (Hear, hear.) I will begin by stating
what has been the course with respect to the education of
the poorer classes of this country from the commencement
of the establishment of public day-schools. These day-
schools were generally commenced soon after the beginning
of the present century. At that time two persons who had
both given very great attention to the subject of educa-
tion, and who are both deserving of commemortilion for
their intelligence, and the laudable efforts they made in
that cause-rI mean Joseph Lancaster and Dr. Bell—were
instrumental in introducing a large establishment of day-
schools for the education of the poorer classer in this coun-
try. Both of them proceeded on the system of having
monitors in the schools—chosen from among the boys at-
tending those schools by whom lessons should be given to
the children who were not sufficiently advanced to obtain
the entire attention of the masters. It was believed, and
it was certainly a matter of fact, that by this means a
larger number of children would be educated cheaply than
could have been done by the method of having a great
number of schools each with separate masters. But no
because t
that persons de.
onlydoubt
usedthat
thes y
instrumentality
system
of
persons
r(sl
oe defective,
twivheo themselves
, i
were little advanced in learning, who had no peculiar
aptitude for teaching, and who could not give instruction
invo t
et the e
troa pit dh and e
objectof intelligent
instruction
doing. (Hoar, hear, hear.) There was a difference
c manner
were capable of
upon a topic of a most exciting nature in the systems
which were adopted pursuant to the advice of these
two gentlemen.
,The system of Joseph Lancaster
adopted by a society called the British and F • Schoolwas
Society, established in 1805, which proceeded on
prin-
ciple of teaching the Bible to all the children in the school. Th.at was a distinguishing
feature of the system, and the
Ring, George 111., gave his immediate andliberal patron.
age to the plan. Many persons who were anxious for the
promotion of education—among others my father, the late
Duke of Bedford—combined for the purpose of placing
themselves at the head of institutions of this kind, and
Lord Brougham, Sir S. Romilly, and many others aided
them with their abilities and zeal. At the same time,

while these schools were thus promoted, there arose an
objection on the partof the established church, that though
the Bible was taught, therewas no instouction given in the

formularies of the church of England, and accordingly at a
later period-1811, I think—a society called the National
Society was formed, in order to give instruction not onlyin
the Bible, but in the catechism, and at the same time with
a rule that the children attending their schools should at-
tend the established church on Sundays. Seeing these
differences, there was immediately a hot contest with re-
spect to the principles on which the schools should be con-
ducted. I will not now enter into the merits of that con-

troversy further than to say, that to this day we feel the
effects of it, and that while it must be admitted that these
societies have contributed in a very large degree to the
education of the people, the feelings produced by the con-
tests of those days have made it difficult, if not impossible,
On the oe hand, tho National Society, counected with the
to unite the poorer classes in on e general system of education.

established church, insisted upon the learning of the
catechism and the attendance at church, to which the
Dissenters conscientiously objected ; on the other hand, the
Dissenters, forced as it were into opposition on this subject,
epaited in great bodies for the purposes of education, and
formed schools entirely, on their own principles, and were
therefore organised in a manner that enabled them to
bring great power to bear against any plan of education of
which those societies, chiefly composed of Dissenters, did
not approve. (Hear, hear.) The education, however,
which was carried on by these two societies produced a
great number of schools all over the gr
eat
increase and a
increase of the means of education. About 1831 or 1832
it was proposed, for the first time, to the House of Com-
mons by the Government of Lord Grey, that the State
should aid in the education of the poorer classes • and at
the same time it was proposed that a sum of 10,0001. should
be given to each of these two societies for the purpose of
aiding them in their efforts. This plan continued till
1839. The Treasury conducted the aid which they gave
according to the rules which, as a board, it was incumbent
on them to adept. They gave grants according to the
amount of the sums voluntarily subscribed, and they dis-
tributed their grants in the proportion of those sums, but
they took no note or regard of the kind of education given.
In 1839 Lord Melbourne's Government proposed a change
of the system. They proposed that a Committee of Coun-
cil should be formed, which Committee of Council should
take a more enlarged and a more discriminating view of
the business of education. Holding the office of Home
Secretary at the time I wrote a letter to Lord Lansdowne,
which letter, with the answer, was laid before Parliament
:as the grounds of the proceeding that was then taken by
the Government. It was intimated in that letter, by the
command of Her Majesty that it was the wish of the
Queen that the youth of this kingdom should be religiously,
brought up, and that at the same time the rights of con-
science should be respected. (Hear.) Among the proposals
for encouraging the means of education, and furthering
this great object there was one to found a normal or train-
ing [school, in which persons of different religious per-
suasions should be educated, while at the same time there
should be a chaplain of the Church of England to in-
struct those who belonged to that church. This pro-
posal excited great apprehension and alarm, and after much
threatened opposition it was withdrawn by the Govern-
ment ; but the proposal to obtain a grant to be placed for
distribution it the hands of the Committee of Council was
persevered in, and by a narrow majority sanctioned by the
House of Commons. (Hear, hear.) In 1846 a further step
was taken of very considerable importance. That step was
an endeavour to improve, to a very great degree, the
quality of the education that was given. (Hear, hear.) '
In stating in 1839 the views which the Government took
of education, I declared my opinion that the main object
to be had in view was to improve the character, the know-
ledge, and the condition of the schoolmaster—that, as the
schoolmaster is, so is the school, and that, unless we im-
prove his character and condition we could hope for no
great improvement of education for the poorer classes.
(Hear.) The minutes agreed to in 1846 were afterwards
the foundation of grants proposed to this house and carried
into effect. I am not aware that since that time any great
.change has taken place with reference to this subject.
The house will thus perceive that the education of the
poorer classes in this country has been conducted, generally
speaking, by the voluntary efforts of great religious bodies,
while, at the same time, they have had assistance from the
State, partly to increase the quantity, but chiefly, and es-
pecially, to improve the quality of the education ; though
the State—and a review of the history of particular grants
will prove the fact—has not interfered materially with the
nature of the instruction given. Great improvements have
been made—indeed, I may say, a great revolution has taken
place—in the instruction given since the commencement of
-the schools under Lancaster and Bell ; but it has been ef-
fected at the suggestion of the different societies which
manage education for the bodies with which they are con-
nected, and by the managers_ of particular schools, who
have individually introduced improvements in the system.
What I wish to call the attention of the house to, how-
ever, is the point at which we have arrived with respect
to the education of the country generally—what it
is in amount and in character. To this, then, I
invite the consideration of the house before proceeding to
state what further steps we may be able to take. I re-
ceived only yesterday from the Registrar-General a state-
ment relative to the number of schools in this country, and
of persons receiving education in them. The number of
public day schools existing on the 31st of March, 1851, at
the taking of the census, was 15,473 ' • the number of per-
sons belonging to the schools, or on the school books, was
—males 791,548, females 616,021 ; attending at the schools
on the 31st of March—males 635,107, females 480,130.
The number of private day schools existing on the 31st of
March, 1851, was 29,425 ; the number of persons belonging
to the schools on the school books was—males 347,694,
females 353,210 ; attending at the schools on the 31st of
March—males 317,390, females 322,349. The proportion
of scholars on the books to the population was equal to
11.76 per cent., or 1 scholar to We; persons ; the proportion
of scholars in attendance to scholars on the books was
equal to 83 1-sth per cent. I will now state from a dif-
ferent source what I believe to be a very accurate estimate
of the number of boys and girls belonging to the schools of
the before-mentioned societies. The house will find it less
than the number I have already given, which may be ac-
counted for partly from the circumstance of there being a
number of schools unconnected with any society, and
partly from the account being mode up previously to 1851,
which allows for subsequent increase. The number of
scholars in 1847 was— Church schools, 955,865; British
and Foreign schools, 225,000 ; Wesleyan, 38,623; Congre-
gational, 6,839 ; Roman Catholic, 31,750 ; Ragged schools,
20,000; total, 1,211,077. Number of schools—Church of
England, 17,015 ; British and Foreign, 1,500 ; Wesleyan,
397 ; Congregational, 89 ; Roman Catholic, 585 ; Ragged
schools, 270 • total, 19,856. The income of those schools
in 1847 stood thus :—Church of England schools, 817,081/. ;
British and Foreign schools, 161,250/. ; Wesleyan,
27,347/. ; Congregational, 4,001/. ; Roman Catholic,
16,000/. ; Ragged schools, 20,000/. ; total, 1,046,8791. I
think I shall be rather under than over the mark if I add
50,0001. for all other schools; and this makes the amount
provided for the maintenance of those schools about
1,100,0001. The sources of income are as follow :—local
endowments, 69,537/. ; local subscriptions, 356,8231. ; local
collections, 114,1091. ; school pence, 413,041/. ; other
sources, 83,076/. ; private supporters, 54,0001. There is
one sum to which I am particule.rly desirous of calling the
attention of the house—l allude to the item of 413,0001.
derived from the school pence. I have no doubt the sum
here given is below the actual amount, and that we should
not err in excess if we were to set down 500,0001., or half
a million, as the sum actually contributed in school pence.
Now, recollecting that half a century ago there were none
but Sunday schools which could be called public schools
for the poor, the result of these efforts is striking, and like-
wise satisfactory. (Hear, hear.) That the people of this
country, and, above all, the working and poorer classes,
should contribute half a million a year to defray the ex-
pense of the instruction of their children the house cannot
fail as to consider a most gratifying circumstance. (Hear,
hear.) I confess it induces me to think that we ought to
direct our efforts rather to strengthen and improve the
system of education which has grown up chiefly from vo-
luntary efforts, than to attempt to set up anything in its
place which, while disturbing the existing system, might
fail to supply an equal amount of money for the education
of the poor. (Hear, hear.) At the same time, we are
bound to bear in mind that, although largo sums are pro-
vided for this instruction' and a great number of persons
partake of it, it is, in great part, defective and inadequate,
and it becomes us to consider whether, witkout disturbing
the existing system, we may not do much to improve it.
I will now state to the house what has occurred, chiefly
under the minutes of 1846, but partly before those minutes
were issued. I have already stated to the home that the
plan which was in the contemplation of the Government in
1839, of having one training school under State direction
and control, did not meet with public favour, and was not
persevered in ; but that, instead thereof, a large number
of training schools were established in different parts of the
country, of which the greater part belonged to the church,
and the others to various Dissenting congregations.
• These schools have proved to he of the greatest value
and utility—indeed, it is impossible to deny what is stated
by one of the, most intelligent inspectors appointed
by the Covernment--namely, that the dispersion of
pupil-teachers to various training schools throughout the
country, to which funds are apportioned under the mi-
nutes of Council, is productive of more beneficial results
than could have been obtained from bringing them toge-
ther into two or three large ichools appropriated to their
education as schoolmasters. The plan now in force is this :
—A boy or girl, as the case may be, who shows intelli-
gence and capacity for teaching is retained as a pupil,
teacher in the elementary school for five years. During
this time the pupil-teacher receives, under the authority
of the Committee of Council, out of the grants made by
this house, a salary hceinnine° at 101., and rising to 201.
before he leaves the school. He is then admitted into a
training school or college, as some are called, where he
becomes a Queen's scholar, and receives from 201, to 251.
the first year, 251. in the second, and 301. in the third.
Thero ttie pupil-teacher receives an education to fit him
for a sMoolmaster. For this purpose he not only receives
the best instruction from the masters and conductors of
the schools, but has an opportunity of showing, practically,
his capacity for teaching. In this way a large number of
persons are educated specially and properly for filling the
office of schoolmaster—an office which I, long ago, declared
in this house was not held in sufficient estimation, but
which is now rising in just estimation, and which is cer-
tainly one of the most important that any person can fill
in this country. (Hear, hear.) I think it an advantage
that these pupil-teachers are dispersed over the country—
some springing from the middle order—some belonging to
the working classes, who are proud, and justly proud, of
seeing, that their children, by dint of intelligence, by dint
of quickness in learning, and also by reason of religious
and moral conduct, have a chance of obtaining from the
masters of the training colleges and the inspectors ap-
pointed by the Government honourable testimony to their
fitness for the office of teacher. (Hear, hear.) Since 1844
the outlay upon training school has been 353,4021., and
-the grants 137,6231. The income of 21 training schools
in 1851 was 44,0001. to which must be added the annual
grants, amounting to 4,3341. Up to 1851 tha number
of training schools established was, I believe, 40 ; but
the number has been much increased since, as well as
of the persons educated as pupil-teachers. In 1852
the total expenditure on these schools under the
minutes of the Committee of Council, was—for
augmentation of teachers' salaries, 16,975/. ; for sti-
pends of pupil-teachers and gratuities to schoolmasters
for their instruction, 79,5871. ; towards the building of
training schools, 15,9961. ; for the support of training
schools, 17,5151.—reeking a total of 130,1031. In this way
great good may be achieved, and the result of this expen-
diture is immediately to raise the character and position
-of the schoolmaster. (Hear.) The inspectors 'appointed
by the Government bear the strongest testimony to the
value of these schools. I will not weary the house with
quotations from the reports of these gentlemen, but will
content myself with stating that Mr. Moseley, one of the
most distinguished of them, bears the warmest testimony
in favour of the training schools, in -which he is supported
by all his colleagues. Only to-day I read the testimony
given by the principal of the training school at Chelten-
ham, in which this gentleman states that he has watched
the progress of the system for two years, and bears willing
evidence in favour of the advantages resulting from it. An
examination is likewise carried on under the direction of
the Committee of Council, both of those who have been
and these who desire to become schoolmasters, and to whom
if approved, certificates ere granted. About 1,900 men
and 900 women have obtained certificates of merit. A
portion of these are now exercising the duties of teachers,
but I should say that about 2,700 of those who have re-
ceived cerhilicates of merit continue to teach. I now come
to a questeoeiSiviiich has been discussed with great ability,
andi7N4l44- eAid great interest throughout the coun-
hee lelpfliWeskkaliell be done with this system ? Shall
altettiatiN *its efficacy by augmenting the
atinit.Zr gPvttilltAgeState? Shall we abandon it ?
l~eWissiolot t another system in place of it?
lao;t7seo queries biAre proceeding to
ch it is my duty to submit to
explain to liirt7.6-liiilinr6;°4ll3r some persons of considerable
qv:house.
totalent
Ie•
-
"<•Co

religious and moral training of the people of this country,
but that this matter ought to be left entirely to the volun-
tary efforts of those who choose to undertake the task. I
can never subscribe to the reasoning by which this position
is supported. I never can admit that any principle or any
scruple should prevent the State from assisting in the reli-
gious and moral training of the people, when it is obviously
the great duty of the State to preserve peace and to enforce
the observance of the rules of morality. (Hear, hear.)
Take the. case of a young man cast into gaol for some act
of theft. Ho is told by the gaoler that he has offended
against the laws of the country : he is told by the chaplain
of the prison that ho hag offended .against the laws of God.
Should he ask why he had not been instructed before with
respect to these matters, would it be a sufficient answer to
that young man to say, " The State has power to punish—
it can commit you to prison, and even give you religious
instruction while there ; but there is some principle or
scruple which prevents it at any previous period from
giving you the means of avoiding the punishmentyou suffer?"
But that question was agitated very fully, I think, in 1847,
and the house decided by a very considerable majority in
favour of the aid which was then sought by the Govern-
ment for the purpose of promoting education. Since that
time if has not appeared to me that the opinion of this
House has been changed, and it certainly does not appear
that the country agree with those who support what is
called the voluntary system. (Hear, hear.) Various reli-
gious communions—for instance, the Established Church,
the Wcsleyans, the Roman Catholics, and the British and
Foreign School Society, comprising in the schools in con-
nexion with it many of the various denominations of Dis-
senters—have received the aid which was given them under
the minutes of the Committee of Council. There are other
parties, indeed, belonging to the same denominations as
those who receive the aid, especially the Baptists and Con-
gregationalists, who refuse the aid and maintain the -vo-
luntary principle. It is evident, however, that these latter,
as compared with the country generally, form rather an in-
considerable minority, and therefore it cannot be expected
that this House would so far change its course as to leanto
the arguments used in support of the voluntary system.
But there is another system which has been proposed for
adoption, and which has been put forth as a system which
ought to influence the State in its decisions on this subject
—I mean the proposal for the establishment of what are
called secular schools. Now, Ido not wish to misrepresent
the arguments which are employed upon this subject, and
I will endeavour to state as fairly as I can the views put
forth by those who are the advocates of this system. If I
should be so -unfortunate as not to have comprehended the
system, I have no doubt there are many present who will
set me right, and place before this house the arguments in
favour of the plan they contend for. What I understand
to be said in support of this system is this :—The country
is divided into various religious communions, differing
greatly from one another, and it has been impossible, by
any scheme hitherto suggested, to bring the children of
persons belonging to these different communions into one
school, and induce them to accept of religious instruction
there ; but it would be very possible to give them secular
instruction—instruction in reading, writing, geography,
arithmetic, science, and art—and to leave the question of
religions instruction to the ministers and pastors of the
different communions, and thus, by treating religion as a
thing apart from the school, would be avoided the expense,
difficulty, and discord which are created byhaving so many
schools. Now, if that be the proposal, there seem to me
to be difficulties sufficiently great to prevent the adoption of
such a system. We must consider, surely, when we are assist-
ing in the education of children, and especially in the edu-
cation of the children of the poor of this country, that the
school is the place where they are to learn the rules for
their conduct in life,—those rules of religion and morality
by which they are in future to be regulated. Such
being the case, it is obvious that, according to this plan of
secular instruction, there would not be sufficient time or
opportunity allowed for the clergy of the church of Eng-
land or the ministers of other denominations to instruct the
children in religion, and consequently one very great and
important end of education, I should say the most import-
ant of all, would not be sufficiently attended to. (Hear,
hear.) The advocates of the secular system of instruction
see this difficulty, and it appears to me, while, no doubt,
many differ among themselves, that the most able of them
take a mode of obviating the objection, which certainly de-
serves the utmost consideration of this house before any
system of the kind should be adopted. The scheme is deve-
loped by many of the writers on the subject, especially by
Mr.Combe, whose name, no doubt, will be well remembered
by the house. What he holds out is this— that very imper-
fect views are taken with respect to religious subjects ;
that very often those rules which the Almighty has laid
down for our conduct in this life, so far from being fol-
lowed, are wilfully or blindly set at nought ; and that it is
the business of the schoolmaster to teach those laws of
social economy and of physiology by which the people of
this kingdom may be better instructed in canducting them-
selves so as to enable them to avoid that course of vice
and misery into which too many of them fall. It will,
however, be obvious to the house that this is a proposal
different from what was the apparent proposal, as at first
put forth, of the advocates of the secular system. The
proposal, as it stands nakedly in the first declaration of
their views, amounts to this—give exclusive secular in-
struction in the schools, and leave religion to be taught
elsewhere by the ministers of religion. The second view
of the subject, however, is this—there is a natural theology
which should be taught in the schools, but Christianity
should not be taught there. (Hear, hear.) Now, that
appears to me a view certainly more extensive, and un-
doubtedly far more dangerous, than that which the advo-
cates of secular education first set out with. My belief is
that the people of this country acted with a right instinctL
when, upon associatingitogether and devoting their money
for the purpose of education, they declared openly that
there should be a religious training in the schools, and
that that religious training should comprise all the great
doctrines of Christianity. (Cheers.) Therefore, neither
partyl nor the present Government can be a to any
plan for proposing a secular mode cf teaching instead of
that which is at present established. I come, then,
to the question as to what should be done under the
present system. I do not, owing to the difficulties
which I mentioned at the outset, think it possible
to unite throughout the country the children of persons
of different religious communions in one plan of educa-
tion. There are obviously very great difficulties with re-
spect to those requirements which areanade by the Na-
tional Society on the part of the church, and with respect
to requirements, too, which are naturally made by the
Dissenters on the part of their communities. With respect
to the National Society, it is part of their rules—l do not
say whether it will be changed or not—that every child at-
tending their schools should learn the church catechism
and should attend the church on the Sunday. It is obvi-
ous that this rule must be intended to apply only to the
children belonging to parents who are members of the
church, because, if you asked questions in the catechism of
a child not baptised—if you pretended to ask him his name,
and who gave him that name, it would be manifest false-
hood, and almost blasphemy, the child to say that his
godfather and godmother gave it him, when in truth, he
had neither godfather nor godmother. But, even if that
difficulty were got over—even if the National Society and
all the managers of schools belonging to the Church were
to say that they would dispense, in the case of some chil-
dren, with the rule with respect to learning the catechism,
and would not require their attendance at church, still I
do not think that in the present condition of things the
great difficulty would then be at all removed. The house
will see, if it gives its attention to the subject, that here is
a very great question involved, in which the Protestant
Dissenters of this country naturally take the deepest inte-
rest. In reference to ecclesiastical affairs, we have an
established church, with its endowments, and the Sove-
reign of the country belonging to it, with the exercise of
her supremacy, and various laws making a distinction be-
tween the Established Church and bodies who belong to
other communions. But when we come to the question of
political and civil rights, then, on the contrary, we have
perfect equality. (Hear, hear.) Equality of civil and
political rights has been established with very few excep-
tions, and it is now the rule ; and for the last 20 years
there has been no doubt on the minds of the great majority
of the Legislature that there should be civil and political
equality with regard to the subjects of this country; to
whatever communion belonging. (Hear.) The Church in
ancient days used to pretend to have complete dominion
over the education of the children of this country ; and I
remember Lord Derby, in this house, quoting an act of
Henry IV. to that effect; but since the accession of the
house of Hanover education in this country has been per-
fectly free. When, therefore, there is a question of estab-
lishing and supporting by the State a system of education,
I believe the Protestant Dissenters would most naturally
I and most justly say that the rule to be established on this
subject should not be the rule of your ecclesiastical
laws, but the rule of your civil and political laws; it
must be the rule of equality, and not of ascendancy. If
this, then, were the case, it leads to this most serious
difficulty with respect to parish schools—that whatever
indulgence or whatever toleration you might give to the
children of Dissenters, that would not satisfy the dissent-
ing body, because there would still remain this source
odiscontent. Accordingly, when an attempt to establish
a combined plan was made, not many years ago, by my
right hon. friend the present Home Secretary—an attempt
which I should heartily have wished to see succeed—it was
found, by the petitions presented to this house, and from
the discussions at public meetings, that a great agitation
prevailed among the Dissenters, and that agitation was
sufficient to preclude all hope of the success of the scheme.
But it is further to be said with respect to the general
establishment of one scheme of education, supposing it
were to be supported by a rate, that there is the difficulty
arising-out of the strong repugnance to the imposition of
rates for such an object, in which the whole of the com-
munity cannot agree. Consequently, as the right hon.
gentleman opposite, the member for Midhurst, said last
year, there would be, if a school-rate were imposed in every
parish, something like the agitation in reference to it, as
now often prevails in reference to the church-rates. (Hear,
hear.) There is, however, it appears to us, one kind of
community in this country which might obtain the means
of supporting schools by rates—l allude to those towns
which have a corporate organisation, and, under act of Par-
liament or by ancient charter, manage through municipal
institutions the concerns of the locality. In towns of this
kind there is not any necessity for establishing schools of
one kind. There are in these towns, generally, schools
belonging to various communions, all of which either
receive, or might receive, some support by the minutes of
the Committee of Council. It appears to us, therefore,
that it is possible, at all events, to give power to the cor-
porations and municipal councils of such towns to vote a
rate for the purpose of improving education therein. But,
in so doing, we should think it necessary to impose certain
conditions, in order to prevent evils which otherwise
might arise. In the first place, we think it right that two-
thirds of a town council should agree in the imposition of
the rate. If a mere majority had power to impose the
rate, and the majority should happen to be small, that
would give rise to incessant attempts to overturn the pre-
vious decision, and to probably great dissentions in the
locality; but if two-thirds of the representatives of the
community gave their voice in favour. of the imposition of
the rate, their decision would probably be generally in
accordance with the sense of the town. In the next place,
we think it necessary that the rate should be applied, not
to establish schools in substitution of former schools, but
in aid of the voluntary efforts of individuals, and of the
school pence given by the parents of children. We should
propose some such scheme as this—that the rate might he
applied to pay 21. in the week for the scholars, provided
44. or 5,1. were contributed from other sources. We should
propose, likewise, that the schools which should receive this
-assistance should be schools which, under the minutes of
Council, might receive assistance, and which, consequently,
have for years received the sanction of Parliament. (Hear.)
I should be afraid of great difficulty and dissension if we
were to go beyond a rule of this kind, and I found my
opinion very much on what occurred in Manchester in the
past year. It is well known that a number of gentle-
men, most benevolent, and entitled to the highest
praise for their exertions, associated together for the pur-
pose of establishing a rate for improving education in that
place. When they endeavoured to collect the opinions of
the town a very great number of ratepayers—some might
dispute whether they amounted to the majority of rated
payers, but they appeared to be so—assented to the pin-
ciplo of rating. When they came, however, to consider
what kind of schools should receive assistance, I belieye

they had no difficulty so long as they confined themselves
to the schools under which the minutes of Council might
receive assistance ; but, when they endeavoured to frame a
scheme of their own, for new and further schools, they
were met by the difficulty that all should receive the bene-
fit of assistance. Now, the resolution to which the asso-
ciation had come, made it an absolute and essential condi-
tion that the Scriptures should be read in the authorised
version, leaving, however, the Roman Catholics to use the
Douay version. But it was to be expected, and it did oc-
cur, that the Roman Catholics demurred altogether to the
religious instruction to be given in such schools, and they,
therefore, formed a minority dissenting from that plan.
Now I think the same difficulty would be found in any
attempts to frame any other plan, and we should not
therefore propose that the power of tho town councils
should go further than the appointment of a committee,
1 which should distribute the sums obtained from the rate
according to the minutes of the committee of Privy Coun-
cil. The committee to be appointed by the town councils
would be formed partly by members of the council, and
partly of other persons resident in the town, who would be
able to obtain accurate information with respect to the
schools, and see that all the conditions required by the
State were complied with in those schools. I propose to
ask for leave to bring in a bill to carry these into effect. I
may add that we propose also that in these schools a parent
should have the power of withdrawing his child from the
religious instruction to which ho might be subjected. It
is obvious, however, on the ono hand, that the parents
would not send their children to a school whore the reli-
gious instruction should be repugnant to the parent ; and
on the other hand a school which had strict rules that
every child should receive that religious instruction, would
at once refuse admission to such a child. All will be done,
therefore, by a clause which will declare the‘ general prin-
ciple that the parent may have the power of such with-
drawal. Seeing that such a plan could not be generally
adopted in this country, and for this plain reason, that in
many parishes in the country there could only be one
school, we propose by a minute, which has been for some
time under consideration, but which is not yet fully ma-
tured, to allow in certain instances to places which
have not municipal corporations a certain sum per head
for each child attending the school. It will be neces-
sary, however, to confine any such grants to those
schools where the schoolmaster has obtained a certificate
of ability. That minute, when its provisions shall have
been fully matured, will be laid upon the table, and the
house, before coming to any vote upon it, will have ample
opportunity. afforded for duty considering it. (Hear.)
The committee of council have likewise considered the pro-
priety of making additional grants for buildings in some
poor places where great difficulty exists in obtaining a suf-
ficient sum for establishing schools. I should say that the
schools generally throughout the country may be divided
into three classes. First, those in which the education is
already sufficient, and where it is also of a sufficiently good
quality; secondly, where the education is deficient both in
quantity and quality; and thirdly, where education has
been entirely neglected. The schools of the first class are
already considerable number; those of the third class are
rapidly diminishing, and are certainly not very numerous;
but it is the second which constitutes the largest class, and
which requires the largest amount of aid and assistance. I
have now stated what is proposed to be done by the bill
as regards a school-rate, and by the minutes of council with
respect to building. There is, however, one subject of
great importance, and with regard to which several bills
have lately been introduced into this house—l mean the
very large amount of property which has been left by cha-
ritable bequests, and which now forms the income of pub-
lic charities. (Hear.) Attention was called to this subject
many years ago by Lord Brougham ; and among the varied
labours which he has performed, and the many splendid
efforts which lie has made, I know of no object more use-
ful to which he has turned his attention ; and I know of
no arguments more striking than those which he has used
upon the subject of public charities. •In 1818 a commis-
sion was appointed upon the subject, several commissions
have boon appointed since that period, the last being ap-
pointed by the Crown, when I had the honour of holding
the office of Secretary in the Home-office, and finally made
its report in 1837. This commission made its report in 38
folio volumes. They reported that the number of charities
amounted to 28,840, and they stated the aggregate income
of the charities, upon which they reported, to be 1,209,3951.
They likewise stated that the annual income of the endow-
ments for the purpose of education was 312,0001. Now,
with respect to many of these charities, various evils have
been found to exist. With regard to a great number of
them, the money has been left to individuals, the trustees
having been careless in recovering them, and they have
been lost in the lapse of time from negligence and inat-
tention. With respect to others of them, the money has
been dispersed by litigation. One instance is mentioned
in the report of a sum of 3,0001., which, after a law-suit
of a considerable length of time—conducted as law-
suits were in our Court of Chancery—left a residue of only
151. a-year. There are unfortunately too many instances
of the same kind. Many of these charities are of exceed-
ingly small amount, and they have been left for purposes
which are not now found to be useful. The charities not
amounting to 51. a-year are 13,331 in number, and those
of 51. and under 101. are 4,641 in number, snaking a total
of 17,272 under 101. per annum. Upon the other hand,
there are several which have increased far beyond the ex-
pectation of those who founded them. There are of cha-
rities of 2,0001. and under 3,0301. twenty-four • of 3,0001.
and under 4,0001. ten; of 4,000/. and under 5,0001. four ;
of 5,0001. and under 6,0001 two; of 8,00/. and under
9,0001. three • and there are also one each of the different
sums of 10,0001., 15,0001., 20,0001., 25,0001., 30,0001., and
35,0001. This is a subject which, having attracted the at-
tention of the public, was sure to be brought under the
consideration of Parliament and of those who held office in
the High Court of Chancery. Lord Lyndhurst, from 1842
to 1845, introduced, I think, three or four different bills on
the subject, which did not, however, pass through Parlia-
ment. Lord Cottenham' in the same way, four times in-
troduced bills relating to these charities, and last year a
bill was under consideration, proposed by the last commis-
sioners of charities appointed in 1849, which contained
many useful provisions. Some of these provisions went
to obtain more accurate and complete accounts of the value
of these charities, their amount, the prevention of loss by
litigation, by declaring and enacting that, without the au-
thority of the Attorney-General, no suits should be insti-
tuted. Other parts of the measure went to give the power
of exchanging lands and granting building leases, working
mines, and various other powers, which would tend to
make property of this kind more valuable. We propose to
adopt these provisions, but we propose to vary the power
to which this discretion is to be given. It appears to us
that there are many matters totally distinct, and which
ought to be placed under distinct management. There is
first a judicial power, which would be required to declare
whether any of these trusts have been abused, and to take
methods for remedying obvious abuses against the will of
the founder. Secondly, there is a power which is that of
administration, or rather of superintending the adminis-
tion, of trusts, which it appears to us should be differently
exercised. It was proposed last year that there should be
a body of three persons named by the Lord Chancellor, two
of whom were to receive salaries, and the third might also
receive a salary, if it should be thought, necessary to
give it. There is no reason to think that persons so
appointed, without the superintendence of Parliament,
would do otherwise than exercise their power merely so
that there should be no abuse of the powers given by the
founder of the charities, and in taking care that no unnes-
sary litigation should take place. Now, we think it de-
sirable that there should be an authority which should
have the power of proposing and enforcing amended
schemes for the disposition of charitable property for such
useful purposes as the founder himself might wish to see
them applied to. We therefore propose that there should
be vested in a committee of the Privy Council, to be ap-
pointed by her Majesty, with the Lord President at its
head, a general power, besides those which I have already
mentioned, to propose schemes for varying trusts in respect
to those charities. We should propose that with respect
to those schemes which should meet the approbation of
the trustees, that they should be adopted, and should,
after being placed on the record, take effect in the same
manner as the original trusts. There is a clause similar in
effect to this in the bill proposed last year. We propose
also to give a power, similar to that which has been con-
ferred by Parliament in one or two instances of late years,
that in cases where the trustees do not consent to the
scheme, a bill should be introduced into this house, and
the assent of Parliament should be asked to the improved
administration of these funds. It appears to me that
great advantages may be gained by the exercise of a power
of this kind. With respect to many of those small chari-
ties giving six loaves at Christmas, and different small be-
quests of that kind, they are generally of no use to the
place where they are given, and in many cases they are
extremely noxious • they produce, in the majority of cases,
merely a day of feasting and of waste, they induce idle
and profligate persons to go to some particular parish for
the purpose of obtaining the benefits, and the benevolent
views of the founder of the charity is utterly frustrated.
Of course, the house would be very jealous of giving any
power upon such a subject, which would seem to interfere
unduly with the intentions of the founders of charities.
At the same time here is a great public advantage to be
gained, and here is a body which might be constituted to
which might be entrusted, under as many guards and
checks as Parliament should think proper, the power of
endeavouring to extract out of these charities the power of
obtaining objects of great utility—such, for instance, as
that of the improved education of the people. (Hear.) My
noble friend the Lord President will ask to intraduce a bill
into the other house, containing the views of the Govern-
ment upon this subject, and I trust that to whomsoever
the power may be given, or whatever may be the extent
of those powers, that we shall at last be able, after
ten years of attempted and frustrated legislation, in
the course of the present year to legislate upon a subject of
this vast importance in such a manner as to improve the
distribution and management of these charitable funds. We
propose that charities not having incomes above 301. a-year
should be carried to the county courts, and those above that
sumeither to the Master of the Rolls or the Vice-Chancellor,
who will have special powers intrusted to them on the sub-
ject. I have-now stated generally what are the views of her
Majesty's Government upon the question of the education of
the working and poorer classes of the country. The sum
which will be asked- appears in the estimates, and before
that vote is taken we shall be able to explain fully the mi-
nute which we shall have adopted upon the subject to which
I have already referred, and it will then be for the house to
consider whether it will grant the sum asked for or not. There
are some other topics upon which I wish to touch, because
they are akin to these subjects, though I do not propose to
enter at length into them. The first is, that the speech
of her Majesty, delivered at the commencement of the
session, has occupied the attention of the Government. The
earnest deliberation of the house was in that speech re-
quested to the consideration of the subject of the promotion
of science and art. It is proposed by the Board of Trade
that the same authoritygranted for the department of schools
of design, and for the purpose of science, should be united
under ono department, to be called " The Department of
Science and Art," under the Board of Trade. Without any
very large expenditure, it will be found that there will be
means of opening museums for scientific objects, and also
for a museum of art, which for the present will be placed in
Marlborough House. There will also be the means provided
for giving instructions on technical questions relating to art
and manufactures, calculated to improve and cultivate the
taste as applicable to manufacturing purposes. .Dr. Lyon
Playfair will be the inspector of the scientific, and Mr.
Cole of the department of art, and under their care and
superintendence it is hoped that great advantage will be
obtained. What more immediately concerns that which I
have to state to the house this evening is, that it is pro-
posed by, the Department of Art, instead of sending to
certain scaools in this country that aid which has usually
been granted, that models and particular forms useful for
instruction in drawing should be furnished as parts of the
grant in cases where such assistance is required, for the pur-
pose of improving their pupils in drawing and in a know-
ledge of the principles of art. (Hear.) I said that I
would state upon this occasion what were the general views
of her Majesty's Government with respect to the reports of
the commissions which were appointed by the Crown on
the subject of the two universities. The house is well aware
that these commissions have presented reports of a most
valuable kind, setting forth in great detail the history of
those universities, giving a great deal of evidence of a most
instructive and valuable nature, and thenuelves suggesting