The Sun.
London, England, 1854-03-20 00:00:00

LONDON, MONDAY EVENING, MARCH 20, 1854.

PROPOSED PARTITION ,OP TURKEY.

The following are the communications respecting
Turkey made to her Majesty's Government by the
Emperor of Russia, with the answers returned to
them, from January to April, 1853 :

* Stay, we have on our hands a sick man—a very sick man.
It will be, I tell you frankly, a great misfortune if, one of
these days, he should slip away from us, especially before all
necessary arrangements were made. But, however, it is not
the time to speak to you on that matter.
t Your Majesty is so gracious that you will allow me to
make ono further observation. Your Majesty says the man
is sick ; it is very true ; but your Majesty will deign to ex-
cuse me if I remark that it is the part of the generous and
strong man to treat with gentleness the sick and feeble
man.

" Now I desire to speak to you as a friend and as a
gentleman. If England and' I arrive at an understanding of
this matter, as regards the rest, it matters little to me ; it is
indifferent to me what others do or think. I tell you, then, if
England thinks of establishing herself one of these days at
Constantinople, I will not allow it. I do not attribute this
intention to you, but it is better on these occasions to speak
plainly ; for my part, I am equally disposed to take the en-
gagement not to establish myself there, as proprietor that is
to say, for as occupier I do not say ; it might happen that
circumstances, if no previous provision were made, if every-
thing should be left to chance, might place me iu the pedtion
of Qccuryin coistautinopie.".

rangement might be made between her Majesty's Government
and his Majesty as might guard, if not for, at least against,
certain contingencies. To render my meaning more clear, I
said further : I can only repeat, sir, that, in my opinion, her
Majesty's Government will be indisposed to make certain. ar
rangemeuts connected with the downfall of Turkey, but it is
possible that they may be ready to pledge themselves against
certain a'rrangements which might, in that event be attempted.
His Imperial Majesty then alluchid to a conversation he had held
the last time he was in England, with the Duke of Welling-
ton, and to the motives which had compelled him to open
himself to his grace ; then, as now, his Majesty was, he said,
eager to provide against events which, in the absence of any
concert, might compel him to act in a manner opposed to the
views of her Majesty's Government. The conversation passed
to the events of the day, when the Emperor briefly recapitu-
lated his claims unon the Holy Places, claims recognised by
the firman of last Febraary, and confirmed by a sanction to
which his Majesty said he attached much more importance—
the word of a sovereign. The execution of promises so made,
and so ratified, the Emperor said he must insist upon, but
was willing to believe that his object would be attained by
negotiation, the last advices from Constantinople being rather
more satisfactory. I expressed my belief that negotiation,
followed, as I supposed it had been, by the threats of mili-
tary Pleasures, would be found sufficient to secure a compli-
ance with the just demands of Russia.. I added, that I de-
sired to state to his Majesty what I had previously read from
a written paper to his Minister, viz., that what I feared for
Turkey was not the intentions of his Majesty, but the actual
result of the measures which appeared to be ontemplation.
That I would repeat, that two cons crp rie ht be antici-
pated from the appearance of an hi,. - rial at. y on the fron-
tiers of Turkey--the one the counter-demons ration which
might be provoked on the part of France ; the 'other, and the
more serious, the rising, on the part bf the Christian popula-
tion, against the Sultan's authority, already so much weakened
by revolts, and by a severe financial crisis. The Emperor as-
sured me that no movement of his forces had yet taken place
(n'ont pas bouge), and expressed his hope that no advance
would be required. With regard to a Frence expedition to
the Sultan's dominions, his Maiesty.-Intimated that such a
step would bring affairs to au immediate crisis ; that a sense
of honour would compel him--t u- send his forces into Turkey
without delay of hesitation ; that if the result of such an ad-
vance should prove to be the overthrow of the Great Turk (le
Grand Pure), he should regret the event, but should feel that
he had acted as he was compelled to do. To the above re-
port I have only, I think, to add, that Emperor desired to leave
it to my discretion to communicate or not to his Minister the par-
ticulars of our conversation ; and that before I left the room,
his Imperial Majesty said, 1‘ You will report what has passed
between us to the Queen's Government, and you will say that
I shall be ready to receive any communication which it may
be their wish to make to me upon the subject. A noble
triumph would be obtained by the civilisation of the nineteenth
century, if the void left by the extinction of Mahommedan
rule in Europe could be filled up without an interruption of
the general peace, in consequence of the precautions adopted
by the two principal Governments the most interested in the
destinies of Turkey,' have, &c.,

(Signed) G. H. SEYMOUR.

No. 3.
SIR G. H. SEYMOUR TO Loan Jon RUSSELL. —(Received Feb. 6.)
(Secret and Confidential.)
(Extract.) St. Petersburg, January 22, 1853.
I have generally found straightforward conduct to be the
best policy, and as it is peculiarly called for towards those
who have acted by us in a similar manner, upon leaving the
palace on the 14th inst. I drove to the Foreigu-office, and
gave Count Nesselrode a correct summary of the conversation
I had just had the honour of holding with the Emperor.

DECISION OF HER MAJESTY'S GOVERNMENT.
No. 4.
LORD JOHN RUSSELL TO SIR G. H. SEYMOUR. •

(Secret and confidential.)---Foreign-office, Feb. 2, 1853.
Sir—l have received, and laid before the Queen, your secret
and confidential despatch of the 22d of January. Hpr Ma-
jesty, upon this as upon former occasions, is happy to ac-
knowledge the moderation, the frankness, and the friendly
disposition of his Imperial Majesty. Her Majesty has directed
me to reply in the same spirit of temperate, candid, and
amicable discussion. The question raised by his Imperial
Majesty is a very serious one. It is, supposing the contin-
gency of the dissolution of the Turkish Empire to be probable,
or even imminent, whether it is not better to be provided
beforehand for a contingency, than to incur the chaos,
confusion, and the certainty of an European war, all of
which must attend the catastrophe if it should
occur unexpectedly, and before some ulterior system has been
sketched; this is the point, said his Imperial Majesty, to which
lam desirous that-you should call the attention of your Go-
vernment. In considering this grave question, the first re-
flection which occurs to her Majesty's Government is that no
actual crisis has occurred which renders necessary a solution
of this vast European problem. Disputes have arisen respect-
ing the Holy Places, but these are without the sphere of the
internal Government of Turkey, and concern Russia and France
rather than the Sublime Porte. Some disturbance of the re-
lations between Austria and the Porte has been caused by the
Turkish attack on Montenegro ; but this again relates rather
to dangers affecting the frontier of Austria than the authority
and safety of the Sultan ; so that there 'is no sufficient cause
for intimating to the Sultan that he cannot keep peace at
home, or preserve friendly relations with his neighbours. It
occurs further to her Majesty's Government to remark that
the event which is contemplated is not definitely fixed in point
of time. When William the Third and Louis the Fourteenth
disposed by treaty of -the succession of Charles the Second of
Spain, they were providing for an event which could not be
far off. The infirmities of the Sovereign of Spain, and the cer-
tain end of any human life, made the contingency in prospect
both sure and near. The death of the Spanish King was in
no way hastened by the Treaty of Partition. The same thing
may be said of the provision made in the last century for the
disposal of Tuscany, upon the decease of the last prince of the
house of Medici. But the contingency of the dissolution of
the Ottoman empire is of another kind. It may happen,
twenty, fifty, or a hundred years hence. In these circum-
stances it would hardly be consistent with the friendly feelings
towards the Sultan which animate the Emperor of Russia, no
less than the Queen of Great Britain, to dispose beforehand of
the provinces under his dominion. Besides this considera-
tion, however, it must be observed, that an agreement made
in such a case tends very surely to hasten the contingency
for which it is intended to provide. Austria and France
could ,not, in fairness, be kept in ignorance of the transac-
tion, nor would such concealment be consistent with the
end of preventing'an European war. Indeed, such con-
cealment cannot be intended by his Imperial Majesty. It is
to be inferred that, as soon as Great Britain and Russia should
have agreed on the course to be pursued, and have determined
to enforce it, they should communicate their intentions to the
Great Powers of Europe. An agreement thus made, and thus
communicated, would not be very long a secret ; and while it
would alarm and alienate the Sulta, the knowledge of its
existence would stimulate all his enemies to increased violence
and more obstinate conflict. They would fight with the con-
viction that they must ultimately triumph ; while the Sultan's
general's and troops would feel that no immediate success
could save their cause from final overthrow. Thus would be
produced and strengthened that very anarchy which is now
feared, and the foresight of the friends of the patient would
prove the cause of his death. Her Majesty's Government
need scarcely enlarge on the dangers attendant on the execu-
tion of any similar convention. The example of the succes-
sion war is enough to show how little such agreements are
respected when a pressing temptation urges their violation.
The position of the Emperor of Russia as depositary, but not
proprietor, of Constantinople, would be exposed to numberless
hazards, both from the long-cherished ambition of his own
nation, and the jealousies of Europe. The ultimate proprie-
tor, whoever he might be, would hardly be satisfied with the
inert, supine attitude of the heirs of Mahomet the Second. A
great influence on the affairs of Europe seems naturally to
belong to the Sovereign of Constantinople, holding the gates
of the Mediterranean and the Black Sea. That influence
might be used in favour of Russia ; it might be used to con-
trol and curb her power. His Imperial Majesty has
justly and wisely said :—My country is so vast, so happily
circumstanced in every way, that it would be unreason-
able in me to desire more territory or more power than I
possess. On the contrary, he observed, our great, perhaps our
only danger, is that which would arise from an extension given
to an empire already too large. A vigorous and ambitious State,
replacing the Sublime Porte, might, however, render war on
the part of Russia a necessity for the Emperor or his succes-
sors. Thus European conflict would arise from the very
means taken to prevent it ; for neither England nor France,
nor probably Austria, would be content to see Constantinople
permanently in the hands of Russia. On the part of Great
Britain, her Majesty's Government at once declare that they
renounce all intention or wish to hold Constantinople. His
Imperial Majesty may be quite secure upon this head. They
are likewise ready to give an assure that they will enter into
no agreement to provide for the contingency of the fall of
Turkey without previous communication with the Emperor
of Russia. Upon the whole, then, her Majesty's Government
are persuaded that no course of policy can be adopted more
wise, more disinterested, more beneficial to Europe than that
which his Imperial Majesty has so long followed, and which
will render his name more illustrious than that of the most
famous sovereigns who have sought immortality by unpro-
voked conquest and ephemeral glory. With a view to the
success of this policy, it is desirable that the utmost for-
bearance should be manifested towards Turkey ; that
any demands which the great powers of Europe may have
to make should be made matter of friendly negotiation
rather than of peremptory demand ; that military and naval
demonstrations to coerce the Sultan should as much as pos-
sible be avoided ; that differences with respect to matters
affecting Turkey, within the competence of the Sublime Porte,
should be decided, after mutual conceit between the Great
Powers, and not be forced upon the weakness of the Turkish
Government. To these cautions her Majesty's Government
wish to add that, in their view, it is essential that the Sultan
should be advised to treat his Christian subjects in confor-
mity with the principles of equity and religious freedom which
prevail generally among the enlightened nations of Europe.
The more the Turkish Government adopts the rules of impar-
tial law and equal administration, the less will the Emperor
of Russia find it necessary to apply that exceptional protec-
tion which his Imperial Majesty has found so burthensome
and inconvenient, though, no doubt, prescribed by duty and
sanctioned by treaty. You may read this dispatch to Count
Nesselrode, and, if it is desired, you may yourself place a copy
of it in the hands of the Emperor. In that case you will
accompany its
presentation with those assurances of friend-
ship and confidence on the part of her Majesty the Queen,
which the conduct of his Imperial Majesty was:so sure to in-
spire.—l am, &c., (Signed) J. Russzu.

RUSSIAN RUSE.
No. 5.

Sna G. 11. SETMOVR TO LORD ions Russm—(Received March 6)
(Secret and Confidential.)
(Extract) St. Petersburg, February 21, 1853.
The Emperor came up .to me last night, at a party of the
Grand Duchess Hereditary's, and in the most gracious manner
took me apart, saying that he desired to speak to me, After
expressing, in flattering terms, the confidence which he has
in me, and his readiness to speak to me without reserve upon
matters of the greatest moment, as, his Majesty observed, he
had proved in a late conversation, he said : And it is well it
is so ; for what I most desire is, that there should be the
greatest intimacy between the' two Governments ; It was so
necessary at present. Well, the Emperor continued, so you
have got your answer, and you are to bring it to me to-morrow ?
I am to have that honour, sir, I answered ; but your
Majesty is aware that the nature of the reply is very exactly
what I had led you to expect. So I was sorry to hear ;
but I think your Government does not well under-
stand my object.' I am not so eager about what
shall be done when the sick man dies, as I am to determine
with England what shall not be done upon that event taking
eve. But, sir, I replied, allow me to observe that we have no

reason to think that the sick man (to use your Majesty's ex-
pression) is dying. We are as much interested as we believe
your Majesty to be in his continuing to live ; while, for my-
self, I will venture to remark that experience shows me that
countries do not die in such a burry. Turkey will remain
for many a year, unless some unforeseen crisis should occur.
It is precisely, sir, for the avoidance of all circumstances
likely to produce such a crisis that her Majesty's Government
reckons upon your generous assistance.
Then, rejoined the Emperor, L will tell you that if your
Government has been led to believe that Turkey retains any
elements of existence, your Government must have received
incorrect information. I repeat to you that the sick man •is
dying ; and we can never allow such an event to take us by
surprise. We must come to some understanding; and this
we should do, I am convinced, if 1: could but hold ten minutes'
conversation with your Ministers—with Lord Aberdeen, for
instance, who knows me so well, who has full confidence in
me, as I have in him. And, remember, Ido not ask for a
treaty or a protocol; a general understanding is all I require
—that between gentlemen is sufficient; and in this case I am
certain that the confidence would be as great on the side of
the Queen's Ministers as on mine.. So no more for the pre-
sent; you will come to me to-morrow, and you will remember
that as often as you think your conversing with me will pro-
mote a good understanding upon any point, you will send
.word that you wish to see me. I thanked his Majesty. very
cordially, adding, that I could assure him that her Majesty's
Government, I was convinced, considered his word once given,
as good as a bond.

IMPERIAL SPECIAL PAEADING.
No. 6.
Sir G. H. SEYMOUR to Lord JOHN RUSSELL.
(Received March 6.)—(Secret and Confidential.)
(Extract.) St. Petersburgh, Feb. 22, 1853.
I had the honour of waiting yesterday upon the Emperor, and
of holding with his Majesty one of the most interesting, con-
versations in which I ever found myself engaged. My only re-
gret is my inability to report in full detail a dialogue which lasted
an hour and twelve minutes. The Emperor began by desiring
me to read to him aloud your lordship's secret and confidential
despatch of the 9th instant, saying that he should stop me
occasionally, either to make an observation, or to call upon
me for the translation of a passage. Upon arriving at the
fourth paragraph, the Emperor desired me to pause, and ob-
served, that he was certainly most desirous that some under-
standing should be entered into with her Majesty's Govern-
ment, for providing against a contingency so probable as that
of the downfall of Turkey; that he was, perhaps, even more
interested than England in preventing a Turkish catastrophe,
but that it was constantly pending ; that it might be brought
about at any moment, either by an external war, or by a feud
between the old Turkish party and that of the " new super-
cial French reforms," or again by a rising of the Christians,
already known to be very impatient of shaking off the Mus-
sulman yoke (joug). As regards the first cause the Emperor
said that he had a good right to advert to it, inasmuch as, if
he had not stopped the victorious progress of General Diebitch
in 1829, the Sultan's authority would have been at an end.
The Emperor likewise desired me to remember that he, and
he only, had hastened to the assistance of the Sultan, when
his dominions were threatened by the Paella of Egypt. I
proceeded to read, and was again stopped at the sentance be-
ginning " In these circumstances it would hardly be conshi-
tent with the friendly feelings," when the Emperor observed,
that her Majesty's Government did not appear to be aware
that his chief object was to obtain from her Majesty's Govern-
ment some declaration, or even opinion, of what ought not to
be permitted in the event of the sudden downfall of Turkey.
I said—Perhaps your Majesty would be good enough to ex-
plain your own ideas upon this negative policy. This his
Majesty for some time declined doing ; he ended, however,
by saying—Well, there are several things I will never tolerate;
I will begin by ourselves ; I will not tolerate the permanent
occupation of Constantinople by the Russians ; having said
this, I will say that it never shall be held by the English, or
Freach, or any other great nation. Again, I never will.per-
mit an attempt at the reconstruction of a Byzantine Empire,
or such an extension of Greece as would render her a power-
ful state ; still less will I permit the breaking up of Turkey
into little republics, asylums for the Kossuths and Mazzinis,
and other revolutionists of Europe : rather than submit to any
of these arragements I would go to war, and as long as I have
a man and a musket left would carry it on. These, the Empe-
ror said, are at once some ideas ; now give me some in return.
I remarked upon the assurance which would be found re-
specting the English resolution of never attempting to possess
Constantinople, and upon the disinclination of her Majesty's
Government to enter into eventual arrangements; but upon
being still pressed by his Imperial Majesty, I said : Well, sir,
the idea may not suit your Majesty, may not suit her Majesty's
Government; but what is good between man and man is often
a good system between one state and another. How would
it be if in the event of any catastrophe occurring in Turkey,
Russia and England were to declare that no power should be
allowed to take possession of its provinces—that the property
should remain, as it were, under seals until amicable arrange-
ments could be made as o its adjudication ? I will not say,
the Emperor observed, that such a course would be impossible,
but, at least, it would be very difficult ; there are no elements
of provincial or communal government in Turkey; you would
have Turks attacking Christians, Christians falling upon Turks,
Christians of different sects quarrelling with each other ; in
short, chaos and anarchy. Sir, I then observed, if your
Majesty will allow me to speak plainly, I would say that the
great difference between us is this : that you continue to dwell
upon the fall of Turkey, and the arrangements requisite be-
fore and after fall ; and that we; on the contrary, look to
Turkey remaining where she is, and to the precautions which
are necessary for preventing her condition from becoming
worse. Ah ! replied the Emperor, that is what the Chancel-
lor is perpetually telling me, but die catastrophe will occur
some day, and will take us all unawares. His Imperial Ma-
jesty spoke of France. God forbid, he said, that I should
accuse any one wrongfully,. but there are circumstances both
at Constantinople and Montenegro which aro extremely sus-
picious ; it looks very much as if the French Government
were endeavouring to embroil us all in the East, hoping in this
way the better to arrive at their own objects, one of which,
no doubt, is the possession of Tunis. Thy Emperor proceeded
to say, that for his own part he cared very little what line the
French might think proper to take in Eastern affairs, and
that little more than a month ago he had apprised the. Sultan
that if his assistance were required for resisting the menaces
of the French, it was entirely at the service of the Sultan !
In a word, the Emperor went on to observe—As I before
told you, all I want is a good understanding with Eng-
land, and this is not as to what shall, but as to what
shall not be done ; this point arrived at, the,. English
Government and I, I and the English Government, hav-
ing entire confidence in one another's views, I care
nothing about the rest. I remarked that I felt confident that
her Majesty's Government could be as little disposed as his
Imperial Majesty to tolerate the presence of the French at
Constantinople; and being desirous, if possible, of ascertain-
ing whether there was any understanding between the Cabi-
nets of St. Petersburg and Vienna, I added—But your Majesty
has forgotten Austria ; now all these Eastern questions affect
her very nearly; she of course would expect to be consulted.
Oh ! replied the Emperor, greatly to my surprise, but you
must understand that when I speak of Russia I speak of Aus-
tria as well; what suits the one suits the other ; our interests
as regards Turkey are perfectly identical. I should have been
glad to have made another inquiry or two upon this subject,
but I did not venture to do so. I ought to have stated that,
in a preceding part of the conversation, his Majesty, although
without any appearance of anger, expressed some surprise at
an expression in your lordship's despatch, " the long cherished
ambition of his (the Emperor's) own nation." He would ask
what that phrase meant ? It happened that I was prepared for
the surprise expressed, and ready to answer any reflection
which it might call forth. Sir, I said, Lord J. Russell is not
speaking of your ambition, he speaks of that entertained by
your people. The Emperor could not at first admit that the
phrase was applicable to the Russian nation any more than to
himself; when I said your Majesty will permit me to remark
that Lord J. Russell only repeats what was said 30 years ago
by your brother of glorious memory. In writing confiden-
tially to Lord Castlereagh in the year 1822, the Emperor Alex-
ander spoke of being the only Russian who resisted the views
of his subjects upon Turkey, and of the loss of popularity
which he had sustained by this antagonism. This quotation,
which, by accident, I could make almost in the words of the
letter, seemed to change the current of the Emperor's ideas.
You are quite right, he said; I remember the events to which
my late brother alluded. Now it is perfectly true that the
Empress Catherine indulged in all sorts of visions of ambition
but it is not less so that these ideas are not at all shared by
her descendants. You see how I am behaving towards the
Sultan. This gentleman (ce monsieur) breaks his written
word to me, and acts in a manner extremely displeas-
ing to me, and I have contented myself with despatching
an ambassador to Constantinople to demand reparation ; cer-
tainly, I could send au army there if I chose—there is nothing
to stop them ; but I have contented myself with such a show
of force as will prove that I have no intention of being trifled
with. And, sir, I said, you were quite right in refraining
from violence, and I hope upon future occasions you will act
with the same moderation ; for your Majesty must be sensible
that any fresh concessions which you have obtained by the
Latins are not referable to towards you, but to the
excessive apprehensions of the French entertained by the un-
fortunate Turks ; besides, sir, I observed, the danger, I will
venture to say, of the present moment is not Turkey, but that
revolutionary spirit which broke out four years ago, and
which, in many countries, still' burns underground ; there is
the danger, and no doubt that a war in Turkey would be the
signal for fresh explosions in Italy, Hungary, and elsewhere.
We see what is passing at Milan. His Imperial Majesty
spoke of Montenegro, observing that he approved of the atti-
tude taken by the Austrian Cabinet, and that iu these days it
could not be permitted that the Turks should ill-treat and
even murder a Christian population. I ventured to remark
that upon this point the wrongs were at least divided between
the Turks and the Montenegrins, and that I had full reason
for believing that the provocation came from the latter. The
Emperor, with more impartiality than I had expected, ad-
mitted that there had been wrongs on both sides ; that cer-
tainly the mountaineers were rather addicted to brigandage ;
and that the taking of Djablak had caused him great indigna-
tion. At the same time, his Majesty said, it is impossible not
feel great interest in a population warmly attached to their ,
religion, who have so long kept their ground against the
Turks ; and the Emperor continued, it may be fair to tell you
that if any attempts at exterminating those people should be
made by Omar Pasha, and should a general rising of the
Christians take place in consequence, the Sultan will in all
probability lose his throne ; in this case he falls to rise no
more. I wish to support his authority, but if he, loses it, it is
gone for ever. The Turkish empire is a thing to be tolerated,
not to be reconstructed ; in such a cause I protest to you I
will not allow a pistol to be fired. The,Emperor went on to say
that, in the event of the dissolution of the Ottomen empire,
he thought it might be less difficult to arrive at a satisfactory
territorial arrangement than was commonly believed. The
Principalities are, he said, in fact, an independent stateunder
my protection : this might so continue. Servia might receive
the same form of Government. So, again, with Bulgaria.
There seems to be no reason why this province should not
form an independent state. As to Egypt, I quite understand
the importance to England of that territory. I can then only
say that if, in the event of a distribution of the Ottoman suc-
cession upon the fall of the empire, you should take posses.
sion of Egypt, I shall have no objections to offer. I would
say the same thing of Caudill ; that island might suit you, and
I do not know why it should not become an English posses-
sion. As I did not wish that the Emperor should imagine
that an English public servant was caught by this sort of over-
ture, I simply answered that I had always understood that
the English views upon Egypt did not go beyond the point of
securing a safe and ready communication between British
India and the mother country. The conversation now draw.
ing towards an end, the Emperor expressed his warm attach-
ment to the Queen, our gracious Sovereign, and his respect
for her Majesty's present advisers. The declarations con-
tained in your lordship's despatch had been, he said, very sa-
tisfactory ; he could only desire that they should be a little
amplified. The terms in which your lordship had spowu Of

* " It is not an engagement, a convention, Which I ask of them ; it
is a free Interchange of ideas, and, in eme of need, the word Of A gen•
that IS gll4tigh between wit",