The Sun.
London, England, 1853-05-07 00:00:00

farmers from Ireland. He had no a oubt that the consoli-
dated annuities were felt to be a heavy burden upon y
of the unions, and that they were extremely desirous
n(t
being relieved from them. But it must be borne
n talsofo very
th in
ese
that many of the towns also paid a larg
consolidated annuities, and the poor raetuemo as
considerable. In the Cashel Union, with wwhich he
hwas
connected, the amount of the local burdens was no less t an
3s. 6cl. in the pound ; even the towns would be in many
instances materially relieved by the remission of the con-
solidated annuities. Indeed, the whole country would. be
benefited by the remission of these consolidated annuities,
the balance, in his opinion, being in favour of the tenant-
farmer class. The hon. member for Mayo contended, that,
striking a balance between the taxes proposed_
etosbelorseer-
Ited and those imposed, Ireland would b
to the extent of 501,000/. He could not understand
how the hon.' gentleman arrived at that ctaonxclusion, as
taking the average produce of the incomes for seven
years at 357,0001., the spirit duties at 19 ,000/.. and the
legacy duty at 267,0001., and, taking the
_renmissinons. at
659,0001., there would be a balance of 95,000/.only
Ireland. Going, then, to the year 1860, when. the income
tax was to be abolished, the amount of the gain to Ireland
(the consolidated annuities being remitted) would be no
less than 497,700/. He challenged the house to dispute th.e
accuracy of these figures. The great question to be consi-
dered was this, that although the consolidated annuities
were unjust and vexatious, yet the income tax
i as
i it was
proposed was also open to great objections from ts nequa-
lities and its inquisitorial character. The tax would also
have to be collected in some hundreds of small towns and
villae and would occasion much difficult from the want
of iroeP er machinery. He felt that it would be a great
hardship to compel the hardworking man, the shopkeeper,
or the man receiving a precarious income, to pay this tax.
It appeared to him that the standard ought to be raised to
2001. per annum, and that the amount of the rating should
be lowered to sd. in the pound. He also suggested that
the working clergy of all persuasions should be exempted
from the tax. He had no wish to exempt the rich pluralists,
or the deans and canons ; but the really deserving and
hardworking men, who were in the receipt of small in-
comes of from 501. to 1501. per annum, ought to be ex-
empted. He must observe further, that it was highly ob-
jectionable to call upon the tenant to pay the tax for his
landlord ; and he should, at a future stage of the bill, move
an amendment to that effect. These, however, were some
of the objections to the income tax ; but if it was only ap-
plied to the property of the country, and if the poorer
classes were relieved from these heavy burdens, then at
the end of seven years, even with the income tax, the posi-
tion of Ireland would be very much improved. He had no
doubt that the amount of the legacy duty, at the end of
seven years, would be 4,000,0001., instead of 2,000,000/. ;
and under these circumstances there was no doubt that
the income tax would be repealed. If the inequalities to
which he had objected were removed, and the burden
placed fairly upon property, there could be no good ground
for opposing it ; and under these circumstances he felt it
his duty to give his vote in favour of the proposition of the
Chancellor of the Exchequer. (Hear, hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, though
he was anxious to explain his views as to the imposition of
the income tax on Ireland, and had lost the opportunity of
doing so during the previous discussion by reason of the
hasty decision, as the question was to be raised by a motion
in committee, he should not on the present occasion enter
into it further than with reference to the proposition before
thelouse. The hon. member for Ennis (Mr. Fitzgerald)
supported his proposition principally upon the assumption
that the product of Schedule B would be inconsiderable,
and not with the imposition of the tax. That question,
however, of the productiveness of the tax could scarcely
be satisfactorily settled until the bill was before the house,
when the machinery to be established for the purpose of
levying the tax could be considered. The hon. and learned
member admitted that as a general principle the exemption
of any class from the operation of the tax would be objec-
tionable, as tending to excite jealousy among all other
classes, and rested his proposition upon the presumed un-
productiveness of the tax. He (the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer), however, believed that the tax would produce a
very considerable sum. He at the same time acknowledged
that as to the mode of collection it might not be possible
to assimilate it entirely to the English income tax. (Hear.)
The difficulty would be, that there was not in Ireland a
staff of intelligent Government officers ready for the pur-
pose, and that there was not, upon the other hand, the
power of resorting to the services of local and municipal
officers. (Hear, hear.) In many places in Ireland there
were only the clergyman, the medical man, and one or two
retail traders. (Hear, hear.) And certainly the subject
required consideration in this view. (Hear, hear.) But it
would be found, when the bill was before the house, that
the subject had been considered. This was not, however,
the proper time for its discussion. The present proposition
related, first, to the case of the tenant farmers. ' The Go-
vernment had considered their case with reference to their
relations to the landlords, and the relation between their
rents and profits, and were of opinion that their position
should be assimilated to that of the Scotch tenant farmers.
(Hear, hear.) This, therefore, would be proposed in the
progress of the bill. Upon this subject he (the Chancel-
lor of the Exchequer) had received representations from
a body of Irish representatives, and although it had been
insinuated that, in so appealing to him in a friendly way,
they had betrayed their duty to their constituents, he
could only say, that without presuming to commend them,
he felt grateful for their assistance in adapting this nex tax
to their country. (Ironical cheers from the opposition).
Another point adverted to on the present occasion was the
impolicy of the employment of local agents for the purpose
of assessing the tax in schedule B. The duty was certainly
one of delicacy and difficulty ; and, for the reason already
alluded to, he had arrived at the conclusion that it would
be best to keep it entirely under the control and immediate
agency of the executive government. (Hear, hear.) This
might, perhaps, increase the difficulty of levying the tax
on small towns ; but ho was anxious to take every means of
moderating its oppressive character. (Hear, hear.) With
regard to the legacy duty, what had been said as to its pro-
bable produce would be delightful to him, of course, if he
could give any credence to it ; but he could not help con-
sidering it as a delusion. It had been said that the pro-
duce would much exceed the amount at which he was erro-
neously supposed to have estimated it, and amount to
4,000,0001. or 5,000,0001. He could only say that he should
be most happy to farm the tax for a fourth or eighth part
of that stun, if there were no objection to the system of
farming taxes.
Mr. DISRAELI—I understand the right hon. gentleman
to say that the house are under a misapprehension in sup-
posing that he had offered au estimate as to the ultimate
amount of the tax on succession of real property—that it
would be about 2,000,0001. We certainly are under the idea
that he did, in his financial statement, give us an estimate
of the ultimate amount of that tax after four years ; and
that the amount would be 2,000,0001. (Hear.) It would
be well to have that question cleared up. (Hear, hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he had
given an estimate that the additional produce of the legacy
duty would be 2,000,0001. in. addition to the 1,300,0001. it
at present produced. He hoped that it would reach that
amount, and should not be surprised if it exceeded it by
200,0001. or even 300,0001., though it would be necessary
to revise the table of duties, and that would reduce the
produce in some degree. The estimate, however, was
about 2,000,0001., but he had to correct an error he had
committed, in stating that this would be the amount at the
end of four years ;he ought to have said five. He had
not, however, represented that the 2,000,0001. would be
the amount raised from the legacy duty on land, but the
amount estimated as the entire additional produce of the
legacy duty (including personal property) after the altera•
tion in contemplation.
Mr. VANCE condemned the Irish members who had
voted against
, Sir Edward Lytton's amendment, as having
, been mesmerised," if not otherwise influenced by the
Government. He condemned the present amendment as a
mockery, and should oppose altogether the extension of the
income tax to Ireland.
Mr. FITZGERALD, understanding that he was to have
no support from the Irish members on the opposition side,
would withdraw his amendment. But at the same time
he defended his own consistency and independence: and
threw back the insinuations which had been thrown out
against him, with contempt. '
Mr, M`MAHON trusted that the hon. and learned mem-
ber would not withdraw his amendment, but press it to a
division, and by that means procure the resignation of
her Majesty's ministers. (Hear, hear.) His constituents,
composed of the agricultural and commercial classes, were
of opinion that'they would derive the greatest relief from
the remission of the consolidated annuities ; but they would
prefer the continuance of that charge to the imposition of
the income tax in any shape. One gentleman with whom
he had been in correspondence described the budget as a
" tricky, delusive, and infamous" affair. (" Hear," and a
laugh). His constituents believed that this budt was
entirely in favour of England and against Ireland. succes-
sive Governments had been for a long time taking
off duties from the raw material for the benefit
of England ; and the present Government were about
to remit the soap duties, which applied peculiarly to this
country, and imposed an equivalent tax upon Ireland.
(Hear, hear.) Upon a recent occasion 31 Irish members
had supported her Majesty's Government; but could one
of those hon. members rise in his place and say that in so
acting he followed the wishes of his constituents ? (Hear,
hear.) The whole of those constituencies would be found
against their representatives with respect to this vote—
(hear, hear, and oh)—indeed, all classes in Ireland were
averse to the tax. (No.) Had a single county or borough
meeting been hold in its favour? He was anxious that the
budget should be carried in such a way that the people (of
Ireland could feel convinced that they were not being
cheated or robbed in order that England might be relieved
of those taxes which it was her peculiar duty to bear. A
high financial authority in the house had established that,
as the budget was at present framed, Ireland was essen-
tially a loser by it. When the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
on a former occasion, remarked that the consolidated an-
nuities were not to be considered as a mere question of
money, he (Hr. M'Mahon) had not been prepared to find
that more was to be imposed on Ireland than was remitted.
The right hon. gentleman the member for Portsmouth had
made a speech on the subject which no one on the ministe-
rial benches had as yet attempted to answer. No one had
as yet controverted the statement of the right hon. gentle-
man that the remissions as regarded England would
amount to 1,040,0001., whereas the increased taxation on
Ireland would amount to 423,0001. Tha people of Ireland,
would like to know how that was to be accounted for. A
member of the Government had stated that the present at-
tempt to tax Ireland was getting in the narrow end of the
wedge. The remissions in the budget were, in fact, in the
interest of England and not of Ireland. It was proposed
to remit the annuities, but he thought it unworthy of a
great empire like this to make a profit out of these loans. The
committee of the House of Lords, who appeared almost in
a judicial capacity, had struck of 2,000,0001. from these
sums charged to Ireland, on the ground that the money hid
been foolishly wasted on officials, and not for the relief of
Ireland.. The duties
conow proposed to be levied on spirits,
what could be fairly chinae tax, would amount to double
on the score of the annuities.
It was said, however, that
there was to be a remission of
the tea duties, but surely in that remission it was only the
right of Ireland to participate. Even the quota which
Ireland was to pay for the legacy . duty would be an equi-
valent for the consolidated annuities ' if the Govern-
ment acted with fairness, they would so consider it. (Hear.)
But, instead of that, they were going to impose 4.Aft 460,000
1. tax, 200,0001. for legacy dsuhtey,,vin9oo,o the whole
duty, and 30,0001. for licences,
large balance against the sister country. In fact, Jvie le
taxa-
tion proposed for Ireland was especially for the benefit of
England and the injury of Ireland ; and, to add to the in-
justice, the charge for the militia, which ought to have
been borne by England exclusively, was in part thrown
upon 26 country which had nothing to do with it. For
several years past the remission of taxation had all been
in favour of England, and had been effected systematically
for that object. Even with regard to the advertisement
duty, Is. was struck off for England and
duty o 6d. for Ire
elandave,
whereas for the latter the proportionalought t h
been 4d. (Hear.) The house would allow him, perhaps,eat
to state a few plain facts, to show that Ireland was s