The Sun.
London, England, 1854-04-08 00:00:00

UNAUTHORISED NEGOTIATIONS WITH

OTHER NATIONS.

Lord CAMPBELL laid on the table a bill to prevent
any unauthorised negotiation or intercourse touching
public affairs, between the subjects of her Majesty and
any foreign potentate or state. The noble and learned
lord explained that the object of the bill was to enforce
the law of nations, which clearly provided that inter-
course between independent nations, respecting public
affairs, should only be conducted through the Govern-
ment or an ambassador, or minister duly authorised
for that purpose, and who was responsible for his ad-
vice. (Hear, hear.) He stated that he would on the
present occasion move the first reading, and defer the
second reading until after the Easter holidays, when
he should enter into the reasons which justified the in-
troduction of such a measure, which he believed was
necessary for the safety of the country.
The bill was then read a first time. •
OATHS.

Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition from Lei.
cester, signed by upwards of 1,000 persons, against corm
pulsory oaths.

DAY OF PRAYER.
In reply to the Earl of SHAFTESBURY,
ThF, Earl of ABERDEEN said the Archbishop of
Cnnterbury had fixed Wednesday, the 26th of this month,
as a day of national prayer for the success of our arms
in the present war. •
THE ARMY DEPARTMENVS,

Earl GREY mimed for copies of correspondence be-
ween the different departments of the Government
with respect to the additions which had been made to
the department of the Secretary of State for War and
the colonies, and also with regard to any changes which
had been made in the transaction of business relating to
the administration of the army. The noble earl com-
menced by detailing the duties discharged by the Com-
mander-in-Chief and the Master-General of the Ordnance,
showing that in many respects they were anomalous,
capricious, and clashing. The theory of the existing ar-
rangement was, that these independent authorities were
made to co-operate by the external authority of the Se-
cretary of State. Formerly the practice corresponded
with the theory; but in the present state of affairs it was
physically impossible that the Minister charged with the
complicated arrangements of the Colonial-office could
also give due care to the administration of the affairs of
the British army. Very serious consequences to the
health and lives of the troops had resulted from the
want of a united system of military management ; in
consequence, when he was at the head of the Colonial-
office, he caused inquiries to be made into this subject,
and the results were really appaling. In Jamaica, the
mortality among the troops for the twenty years end-
ing in 1837, amounted to 2,758 out of a force of
6,7oo—being an average of 130 per 1,000. The loss
in the battle of Waterloo, including those who
died of their wounds, as well as those killed, was
only 100 in the 1,000, showing that there was greater
risk to life in one year's service in Jamaica than there
was in the greatest battle known to history. He denied
that this mortality was the effect of the climate, because,
owing to greater care being taken of the soldiers, and
the substitution of fresh meat for salt meat, the mor-
tality among the troops in the island was reduced to 34
per 1,000. In the other West India commands the
mortality had been reduced from 85 to 45 per 1,000 ;
and he believed that 45 much a larger mortality than it
would be if a better system were adopted. Much of the
mortality he attributed to the undue use of salt provi-
sions, for all the time this was taking place they were
feeding their convicts with the—fresh provisions which
they denied to the soldiers who guarded them ;
but this was not the worst of it, for it turned out
that the fresh provisions thus denied to the
troops were actually cheaper than the salt. It
was, however, no part of the duty of the Secretary-
at-War to interfere with the victualling of the army ;
but seeing the evil, he felt it his duty, when he was at
the Colonial-office, to call the attention of the Treasury
to the subject. A correspondence ensued, which lasted
two years, and he described in some detail the different
impediments which had hindered the work of improve-
ment. He then referred to the quartering of the troops
in the West Indies during the time that this mortality
was proceeding, and described cases in which the sleep-
ing room allowed to each soldier was only eighteen
inches. For a dolen years the barracks in Trinidad
had been kept in a state unfit for negroes, and the me-
dical officers reported considerable mortality owing to
the impossibility of keeping them dry. The noble earl
added a variety of other details to prove that numbers
of soldiers had perished from want of accommoda-
tion, which might have been provided if a better sys-
tem of management had been adopted. He assured
the house that these were not isolated cases ; they
were examples of a system ; and they proved beyond
all question that the clashing departments in the ad-
ministration of the army ought to be united. During
all these years there had been the greatest possible com-
bination of talent and experience in military administra-
tion at home ; thus showing that the evils and abuses
which he had detailed arose out of the system which was
adopted. He might be met by the argument that even
under the system which he so strongly condemned the
British army had always proved itself efficient. Such a
consideration he regarded as irrelevant, but he quoted
the Duke of Wellington and Sir Willoughby Gordon to
show that they felt and complained of the anomalous
mode of management. Sir Willoughby Gordon, in a
confidential report in 1810, expressly recommended the
consolidation of the different offices connected with the
administration of the army into one department, under
the control of the Secretary of State ; and from his own
experience, ho could assure the house that it was
impossible, under the existing system, for the
Secretary of State to exercise that control and
supervision without which there could be no unity
or efficiency of action. Even if the noble duke now
at the head of the department were not to open
a single colonial despatch, he would have quite
enough to do to attend the business of his office as Min-
ister of War. During war there was not time to follow
the present cumbersome mode of transacting business.
He was told that an additional Under-Secretary had
been appointed to assist the noble duke. This could
only mitigate, and not remove the evil. It was necessary
that a totally different system should be organised ; and
he suggested that the administration of the army
should be a copy of that of the navy. All the different
departments might be consolidated in one board, which
board should be presided over by the Secretary-at-War.
This, whilst securing efficiency, would also secure re-
sponsibility. The noble earl then mentioned circum-
stances which led him to believe that there had been some
changes of plan in reference to the conduct of the pre-
sent war, and expressed a fear that, under the existing
system, they might, without great care, prove danger-
ous. In conclusion, he anticipated and answered an
objection that the changes he suggested would virtually
take the administration of the army from the Crown,
contending that the question was, not the administration
of the Crown but the responsibility of the Government,
and that it was impossible, with due regard to the effi-
ciency of the service, to keep separate the civil and
military administration of the army.

The Duke of NEWCASTLE said there was no ob-
jection to the production of the papers. He would not
deny that there might be faults in the system under
which the army was governed, but he did not think that
the noble earl had established his case. All the in-
stances he had adduce were of remote date ; and he had
shown by references to his own management that where
abuses had been proved they had always been remedied.
The mortality in Jamaica took place when barracks did
not exist in the healthy part of the island, and when
they were not under the charge of the home Govern.
ment ; and, adverting to the mortality in Bermuda and
Hong Kong, he assured the house that the greatest pos-
sible care had always been taken by the Government of
the health and lives of the troops. Alluding to the
noble earl's correspondence with the Treasury some
years ago, he asked whether he meant to contend that
the control of that department over finance should
be abandoned? If he did, cadit questio ; if he did
not, then that correspondence had nothing to do with
the subject. (Hear, hear.) Admitting again, that thei.e
were theoretical objections to the existing system, he did
not believe that its practical evils were so great as the
noble earl had represented. He objected to place upon
the Secretary of War the duties now discharged by the
Commander-in-Chief. It might, however, be worth con-
sideration whether the commissariat should be removed
from the Treasury; but he was bound to say that the
Duke of Wellington entertained a very strong opinion
that this department should remain in the hands of the
Treasury. Some persons thought there ought not to be
a commissariat at all ; but the absence of such a depart.
ment would certainly be attended with serious evils.
His own experience at the present moment did not cor-
roborate the statements of the noble earl, as to the
want of promptitude and harmony in the different de-
partments under the present system. After any decision
had been taken, there had never been the smallest hesita-
tion or the slightest difference of opinion. One of the best
tests of efficiency was action in a time of pressure. The
experience of the last two or three months was decisive
upon this point ; for it proved, beyond all doubt, that the
existing system was neither vicious nor imperfect. Under
no circumstances, and at no time, had so great a force
as that just sent to Turkey ever been sent out by this
country with greater celerity or success ; and he assured
the noble earl that no contradictory orders had ever been
issued with respect to it. Any such dislocation of the
existing system as had been recommended would, instead
of increasing the efficiency of one department, destroy
the efficiency of all ; and he quoted Earl Grey's own
evidence before a Parliamentary committee in 1850, to
the effect that a time of war would have the effect of
practically uniting all the administrative functions of the
, army under one head. The very case which .the fore-
.

sight of the noble earl had suggested had now occurred.
The establishment of such a board as the noble earl con-
templated could not be effected at a time like the pre-
sent without serious detriment to the service ; but,
even were it otherwise, he doubted whether such a
change would be expedient. Boards in many cases
were mere expedients for shifting off responsibility.
It was admitted that a civilian should have the ad-
ministration of the army, and of course he would be at
the head of that board, with military officers for his col-
leagues. He could not believe that this would be any
improvement upon the ,present ',system ; and he asked
whether the civil head of the board, who would neces-
sarily be a political officer, ought to have the patronage
of the army ? Should'it be devolved upon the junior
lords? He thought neither of these would be endured.
In conclusion, he repeated, on the part of the Govern-
ment, that they did not- condemn all alteration in the
existing system, but they deprecated changes at the
present moment, which might put the whole machine
out of gear, and lead to serious inconvenience.
Lord HARDINGE said that at the time referred to
by the noble earl (Grey), in connection with the affairs
of Sierra Leone,'the late.puke of Wellington was Master-
General of the Ordnance ; and it was not for two years
after these circusistances that the noble duke under-
took the management'of the colonial barracks ; there-
fore the noble duke had nothing whatever to say
to those matters to which the noble earl had referred.
It was,not his intention- to go into the general question,
as helding the office he:did, he was of opinion it would
be more consistent in hint not to interfere. However,
he might say it was genera- lly understood that the Colo-
nial Secretary was as`,2lapty responsible for the safety
of our colonial empire the Home Secretary was for
the United Kingdom. He.-,shouki say it would be a
matter of regret to hilte4o ',See the Secretary at War
performing the duties 17.(1W Their
to the office of
Secretary for the Colonies..; 7their lordships might re-
member the occasion on whiertit was believed the Char-
tists would attempt a march through London. On that
occasion every arrangement was made which could
possibly insure tranquillity, and made with such preci-
sion that every person was struck with them, and be-
lieved them almost marvellous. He asked, of what
use would be the Home Secretary, or a fourth secre-
tary, on such an occasion ? If the Secretary were
stripped of his present responsibility, his power would
be very much weakened. He (Lord Hardinge) had,
within the last two months, conducted the movements
of the troops, and had frequent interviews with his
noble friend the Colonial Secretary ; and he should
say he found no difficulty whatever in the matter
—no disagreements or squabbles, but everything
going on harmoniously. There might be alterations and
improvements required in the inferior departments ; but
if their lordships attempted to limit too much the autho-
rity and power of the commander-in-chief in the manage-
ment of the troops, they would shake discipline in such
a manner as to render it very difficult to enforce the
necessary authority.

The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH expressed to Earl
Grey his obligations for bringing this question before
the house. It involved the lives of thousands, the effi_
ciency of the army, the greatest interests of the state,
and the honour of the country; and he should say, if
their lordships were not prepared to come to a con_
sideration of this important matter on the present cocoa_
sion, it was absolutely necessary that an early period
after the Easter recess the whole question of the naval
and military preparations of the country, the position in
which we now stood, and the manner by which these
naval and military forces were to be directed, should be
brought under consideration. He considered that the
military should be entirely subordinate to the civil
authorities. He thought the most convenient ar-
rangement for the public would be, that the general
direction of the war should rest with the First Lord
of the Treasury himself. (A. laugh.) There might be
circumstances which would render that inconvenient at
the present time—(renewed laughter) ; and knowing
that no man did well the thing he hated—that, whatever
might be his general abihties, directed, as they would
be, for the first time, towards war—he (the noble earl)

could not but apprehend it was just possible that the
war would not be successful. (Hear, hear.) He firmly
believed there was no other arrangement that would give
us real security—no other arrangement which would
secure that despatch so necessary to the success of

tart' operations. The struggle in which we were now
engaged was a great one. He thought the people of this
country would be called upon to make very great sacri-
fices. Under the pressure of these great sacrifices—it might
be great sufferings—enthusiasm might not continue in the
prosecution of the war. It was a wail of far-sighted po-
licy, a statesman war, which the people of this country
did not understand ; and unless that war was well
managed and conducted, presenting from time to
time examples of success, deeds of high achievement,
and a decided progress towards the prostration of the
enemy, it would be perfectly impossible for any Govern-
ment to continue its prosecution. (Hear, hear.) He,
therefore, earnestly prayed the Government to consider
the means by which this war was to be conducted. He
thought it was impossible to conduct it with success
while it was directed by departments which might cou-
filet with each other in reference to the arrangements.
The war could only be properly conducted by the one
department with undivided responsibility, and armed
with almost undivided power. Unless the Government
took the course which he suggested, they might depend
upon it that, whatever might be their present strength
in parliament and in the country, they would fail in
overcoming the difficulties they were surrounded with.
The country would not bear defeat or mismanagement ;
and the Government that mismanaged a war would be
put out by the indignation of the naval and military
services, and the general disappointment of the people.
Lord PANMURE had been long of opinion that the
administration of the affairs of the army will be taken
by the country into their own hands ; and we shall see
in this country a Minister responsible for the military
affairs of this country. (Hear, hear.) "We shall yet see
the pecuniary charges for the army, the ordnance, and
the commissariat put into one estimate, so that the fi-
nancial military affairs of the country shall be laid at
one time before the Houses of Parliament. He thought
that the time had arrived when it behoved the Govern-
ment to consider how those changes may be effected
gradually, safely, and in proper time, before they are ef-
fected suddenly and with a rough hand.
Earl GREY having then replied, the motion was
agreed to.
TESTAMENTARY JURISDICTION.
The third reading of the Testamentary Jurisdiction
Bill was moved by the LORD CHANCELLOR.
The Archbishop of CANTERBURY remonstrated
against the injustice which the measure would inflict

upon the proct-ors,
Lord WYNFORD thought that the bill should not
be allowed to pass without taking the sense of the house.
After some further discussion, their lordships divided,
and the bill passed the third reading by a majority of 2,
the numbers being—Contents, 7 • Non-contents, 5.
The house adjourned at 10 o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS—(YESTERDAY.)
The SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.
The following bills were read a third time and passed :
Belfast Harbour ; Birmingham Waterworks ; Cardiff Gas ;
and Clitheroe Waterworks.
The following bills wore considered, and ordered to be
read a third time ; —Accrington Gas and Waterworks ;
Louth Waterworks ' • Manchester Corporation Water-
works ; Manchester Improvement ; Rossall Sea Wall ;
Hyde Im?rovement ; and Tyne Keelmen.
The Lowestoft Improvement (No. 2) Bill was read a
second time and ordered to be committed.
PETITIONS.
• -

A large number of petitions were presented against the
opening of public-houses on Sundays.
Mr. ALTERS presented a petition from the Dissenters
of Nottingham praying that all restrictions upon the ad-
mission of Dissenters into the univenities may be removed.
The hon. member stated that he did not concur in the
prayer of the petition.
Mr. FERGUSON presented a petition from the National
Providential Fire Insurance Company praying for the re-
duction of the duty on fire insurance.
Sir W. HEITHCOTE presented a petition from the
president of St. John's College, Oxford, complaining of
certain clauses in the University Reform Bill.
Mr. T. DIINCOMBE, Mr. DrVETT, and several other hon.
members presented petitions praying for the admission of
Dissenters into the Universities.
Major BERESFORD presented a petition from a place
in Essex against the Parliamenty Oaths Bill.
Mr. RICH presented a petition from the corporation of
Richmond, in the North Riding, complaining of an over-
sight of the Population Commissioners, and praying that
in any future Reform Bill the town might be preserved
from disfranchisement; a proceeding that seemed to be
contemplated by the new Reform Bill.
Mr. BASS presented a petition from Derby in favour of
the Reform Bill

Lord J. RUSSELL presented two petitions to the same
effect, one from the corporation of Cambridge and the otior
from Yarmouth.

VENTILATION OF THE HOUSE.

Mr. SPOONER gave notice that on Monday he should
move the consideration of the select committee on the ven-
tilation of the house.

CHURCH RATES.

Mr. PACKE gave notice that after Easter he should
move for leave to bring in a bill to exempt Dissenters from
the payment of church-rates.
NEWSPAPER STAMPS.
On the motion of Mr. FITZGERALD, the following
return was ordered :—Return of the number of stamps at
ld. each issued to each newspaper published in the cities
of London, Dublin, and Edinburgh, respectively, for each
quarter, in the years 1851, 1852, and 1853, and in the first
quarter of tho year 1851, specifying the name of each
newspaper, with the number of stamps issued to each in
each quarter.