The Sun.
London, England, 1854-06-23 00:00:00

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[PRICE SD.

dignity if we do not assert our opinions, and leave the
othet house to assert theirs. That may be a yery good
maxim, but I hope it will not be listened to in future days,
as'it has not been listened to in days which are passed, by
the House of Lords. Does the right hon. entleman sup-
Nee that the House of Lords, wh they adopt a bill,
always act in accordance with their own opinions ? No
such thing. In many iestances they adopt bills in defer-
ence to the opinion of the country as represented in this
house.- Does the right hon. gentleman think that inta:s;
sehting to the repeal of the earn laws, the
the the repeal cio hs
e
their
navigation laws, and to many other
of iLords were merely following measures,
. li
own opinion and
asserting their own dignity ? If the House of Lords
should adopt the right houourable gentleman's inaxi
and follow' his advice, frequent disputes Ti would
Occur between the two branches of the Legislature.w(
As it is, the House of Lords frequently—indeed,
may say, commonly—defers to the opinion of the
House of Commons and the country ; but in order to carry
on the legislation of the country it is necessary that the
House of. Commons should from time to time, and upon
questions that' are not of vital importance, consult the
opinion and feeling of the other house. For these reasons,
I think it would be inexpedient to risk the success of the
bill in the other house by adding the clauses now prciposed.
I think it advisable that the university, with its new'and
improved constitution, should have the oppoetunity of eon-.
sideriug and determining on the question of the admission
of Dissenters. lam ready to say, however, that if the
university-should disappoint my expectation in this mat-
ter—if it should continue to refuse to admit the whole of
the people to a participation in the benefits of that insti-
tution, the State would have the right of compelling it to
take that course by passing a bill for the purposee.andl go
further, and say that, under those circumstances, such a
bill ought to be introduced. The house, however, should
recollect that this question has been under the censidera-
tion of Parliament on many occasions, after intervals of
several years. The question was brought forward in 1834,
when I took part in the debate and voted in favour of the
motion. It was not again introduced for a considerable
period, and now it .is introduced after an interval of
six or seven years. This shows that the Dissenters have
not thought the question one of pressing urgency. They
have shown their willingness to wait. (A. laugh.) Having
waited so long, why not wait a few years longer? (" Oh,
oh," and laughter.) I believe that if you press the ques-
tion now, you will fail in carrying it, and that if you
press it in a few years hence you are pretty certain to suc-
ceed. (Laughter.) For my part, I have always voted
for the admission of Dissenters to the universities when-
ever the question has been brought on. It is not my fault
that the question has not been pressed every year; if it
had I should have voted for it, but I cannot consent to the
introduction of the clauses into the bill, because I think it
would cause the measure to be defeated.
Mr. GIBSON said the noble lord appeared to have mis-
understood what fell from him. He did not say that he
wished the clauses to be introduced in order to cause the
defeat of the bill, but that the loss of the bill might be re-
paired by the introduction of a better measure in a future
session.
Mr. HEY WOOD, amidst cries for a division, was under-
stood to say that, upon the present occasion, he was chiefly
anxious that tie principle involved in his clauses should be
established.
The house then divided—
For the clause 252
Against it l6l
Majority —9l
The cheers at the announcement of the numbers were
loud and long continued.
The clause for the admission of Dissenters to the Uni-
versity of Oxford was then added to the bill.
Mr. HEYWOOD then moved that the following clause
be also added to the bill :—" From and after the first day
of Michaelmas term, 1854, it shall not be necessary for any
person upon taking any of the degrees in arts, law, or
medicine, usually conferred by the said University of Ox-
ford, to make or subscribe any declaration, or to take any
oath, save the oath of allegiance, or an equivalent declara-
tion of allegiance; any law or statute to the contrary not-
withstanding."
Lord J. RUSSELL—The house having declared its
opinion so unequivocally on the first amendment, I beg to
state that it is not my wish to take a division on the second
amendment proposed by the hon. gentleman.
Mr. WALPOLE rose amid loud cries of " Divide !" One
word (said the hon. gentlemen), and only one word on the
second clause. The house has simply affirmed at the pre-
sent moment this proposition, that for the purposes of educa-
tion (the ground taken by my right hon. friend the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer) there shall be no bar to the ad-
mission of Dissenters to the university. But the second
question which is now going to be put to the house is this
—whether for the purposes of government—(No, no)—
whether for the purposes of government— (No, no). The
right hon. gentleman who cries " No, no !" cannot have
considered the distinctive difference between the two
clauses. By the clause which you have just adopted you
admit Dissenters to the university for the purposes of edu-
cation but by the second clause now proposed you admit
Dissenters to take degrees which will enable them to vote
in convocation, and a distinct power will be given to Dis-
senters to take part in the government of the university.
(Loud cheers.) But that is not all. If you pass this second
clause, not only will you give to Nonconformists the power
of government in the university, but you will give to them
a right to claim a share in endowments which it was never
intended they should participate in. (Cries of "No Pend
cheers.) I am surprised that the 'noble lord should-give
up his principles, as he seems prepared to do. I appeal
most earnestly to the Government to persevere in their op-
position to the second amendment, and I do not despair, if
they will stand firm and true to their opposition, though
they may not succeed this evening, they will be able on
another occasion to carry their own proposition into effect,
which proposition is, that since you have given freedom to
the university, and freedom to the colleges, you should
leave toThem the-option and trust to them the discretion of
determining, since you have decided that Dissenters shall
have the right of being admitted to the university, upon
what terms and in what way they are to be admitted, so as
not to interfere with the general efficiency of the university,
nor with that religious education which alone ought to be
continued within the precincts of the university. (Cheers.)
Whether the noble lord and his colleagues will cry " Ay"
upon this clause with those with whom they have cried
"No" upon the other, I do not pretend to say, but whether
I go into the lobby alone or not—(loud cheers from the
Opposition)—l will raise my voice and give my vote against
this second clause—(cheers)—and the only words I will
add are, that the Government are bound to support me.
Mr. BROTHERTON rose amid cheers, cries of " Oh"
and " Divide!" which rendered his voice inaudible.
Mr.V. SMITH also attempted to address the house, but
the confusion and excitement were so great that not a
syllable reached the gallery.
Lord J. RUSSELL—I beg to say that what I said was
that, I did not wish to divide the house after the uneclui-
vocal expression of its opinion. But having argued against
this clause, if there is a division I shall vote against it.
(Loud cheers from the Opposition.)
The house again divided—
Far the clause 196
Against ... 205
Majority
After the cheering with which the announcement was
received had subsided,
Lord J. RUSSELL said he proposed to proceed with
the report to-day at 5 o'clock. ,
In answer to Mr. WIGRAM,
Lord J. RUSSELL said it was very desirable that the
bill should go early to the House of Lords, and he hoped
the house would consent to its being read a third time on
Monday.
Mr. WIGRAM asked if notice would be given of any
amendment to be proposed by the Government.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
Government had several amendments to propose on the re-
port, but all in accordance with the previous understanding
of the house. If they had any, material amendment upon
any portion of the bill, or on the clauses introduced, they
would move it on the third reading, and give notice to-
morrow.
Mr. BRIGHT said, unless the hon. member for North
Lancashire again asked the opinion of the House on the
clause which was the subject of discussion that evening, on
the third reading he should do so. The division on the
question had been so peculiar, the noble lord the leader of
the house having stated that the second resolution followed
naturally and logically upon the first, that he hoped
by Monday the noble lord would find means of con-
rerting some of the hon. gentlemen who sat near him, as
it was very desirable the question should be settled ; and
really, having carried the first proposition. what could be
so natural as that the other should follow ? He hoped
after two or three days' consideration they
•would be able
to carry the second clause, perhaps without a division—
(laughter)—but, at all events, by a respectable majority.
Some 'reference had been made to the House of Lords ;
that house had conceded matters before in deference to
public opinion and the wish of the House of Commons,
and he appealed to the noble lord to urge upon his col-
leagues in the other house- to adopt on the present occa-
sion a similar course, which he was sure was one that
would strengthen their position with the public.
Mr. HEYWOOD said lie thould certainly move the in-
troduction of the second clause again on the third reading,
and gave notice accordingly.
Mr. NEWDEGATE was convinced that a great number
of hon. members did not exactly understand the connexion
that existed between the first and second clauses. (Cr
usted
ies
of " Oh.") Hon: members might cry "oh," but he tr
and believed that those hon. members not in London at
present would be in their places on Monday, and, instead
of the majority they had seen in favour of the clause,. theoref.
would be somethingbers of more lithe Church ofke a legitimat England on this
the feeling of mem
point. He was quite confident that such a change would
be seen in the numbers on the two divisions as would indi-
cate deny that there had been a misunderstanding on the
subject. " Oh, oh !")
EXCISE DUTIES (SUGAR) BILL.
On the motion for the third reading of this bill,
Mr. HANKEY hoped the hon. gentleman the Secretary
of the Treasury would give seine explanatniosnedupeforn
btrhoewpirong-
posed additional duty of 75. upon sugar
purposes, and which he had promised to consider, with a
view to its reduction, on a former occasion. Ile (Mr.
Sankey) suggested 6s. would be quite sufficient.
Mr. WILSON said, that the rate proposed was some-
what higher than, upon reconsideration, was thought ne-
cessary, and he should now move that a duty of 6s. 6d. be
substituted for the proposed duty of 7s.
The motion was agreed to, and the bill, having been
read a third time, was passed, after a few words from
Mr. WA/ARON, who recommended that, in order to en-
courage the high agriculturists, the duty on beetroot sugar
used in brewing should be half the duty imposed on foreign
sugar.
The house resolved into committee on the Warwick
Assizes Bill.
Mr. DIGBY SEYMOUR said, that in the part of the
house where ho was sitting, he could not understand what
was going on, and, as a bill of his, the Bills of Exchange
and Promissory Notes Bill, which stood on the order paper,
had been passed over without his knowledge, hemoved
that the Chairman report progress.
The committee then divided, when there were
Forreporting progress .. ....... . ........... 25
• Against it ............. . ............................. —4 83
.8
Majority .............................. ....
The bill then went through committee with some verbal
amendments.
The house adjourfl at 20 Want% after 1 e
ed clockt