The Sun.
London, England, 1853-03-08 00:00:00

passengers had been landed, and the shi.p herself fumi-
gated.

DAMIEN SHIP CANAL.
Mr. HUME seeing the noble lord the m ern] ier for the
city of London in :his place he wished to aka h im a ques-
tion on a subject of great importance to the whole
world. It was as regarded the forn 18,1 Lion of a
ship canal across tl &Isthmus of Darien. :publication
had been made upon the subject by the Prosic lent of the
United States, and, as anything connected wit h the com-
merce of the world must be interesting to th e country,
he wished to ask thc.t noble lord whether the G overnment
had received any information on the subject of the
undertaking for to rming a ship canal to connect the
Atlantic with the Pacific, aad whether tl Le noble lord
was prepared to &Ate the views of the Government on
the subject
Lord J. RUSSELL said the question related to a
subject of much importance. Some time alto, a project
was formed in America for constructing a ship canal
across the Isthmus o f Dariea ; but the scheme -was after-
wards changed, so that the canal should only admit
coasting vessels, instead of merchantmen and her
Majesty's Government therefore did not ai and
of it.
More recently, however, another plan had be en proposed
to make a ship canal across the Isthmus 30 feet deep,
and although the Government at present coulc . not meddle
with the details of that Scheme, they would :rot be quite
ready to co-operate with the United States in carrying
out the scheme. All that he could say now was, that so
far as the general outline was concerned, the Govern-
ment approved of it, and they thotight if it could ulti-
mately be adopted, it ' would tend very it iaterially to
favour and increase the commerce of the world.
LETTERS FOR AUSTRALIA. ,
Sir De L. EVANS wished to know if i ;he Govern-
ment could supply the public with any inforr nation as to
the letters which had been received from the Australian
and forwarded en to their destination ? (H ear, hear.)
Mr. J. WILSON said, in reply to the galitant officer,
he had to state that the only letters which. were da-
maged by being on board the Australian we re in a bag
for Melbourne. The bag was brought back to London,
and after the letters had been sorted and dried they
were packed in boxes and sent on by thLe overland
mail. The directions of all the letters were made
out, with the exception of seventy, which were
so much damaged that their directions were quite
unintelligible, and they were, therefore, depositsd
in the Dead Letter - Office. (Hear.) Of these
seventy letters, twenty-two had been since returned, and
the remaining fifty were open to the inspection of those
persons who might be anxious to ascertain if they were
their own. (Hear, hear.)

ENCUMBERED ESTATES COURT.
Mr. WHITESIDE wished, to ask the Chief Secretary
of the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland, what are the inten-
tions of her Majesty's Government with respect to the
continuance of the Encumbered Estates Court ?
Sir J. YOUNG E aid the question was still under the
consideration of the Lord-Lieutenant.
SILVER COINAGE.
Mr. BASS wished to ask the right hon. gentlenian
the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether Government
intended to take any steps to increase the supply of
silver, which had been found ;very scarce of late ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
demand for gold was so extremely pressing at pre-
sent that there was no chance of the Govern-
ment being able to increase the production of
silver coinage for some time to come. At present the
Mint was coining half a million sovereigns a week, just
twice as much as the maximum supply for which arrange-
ments had been made. With regard to silver coinage,
some time ago 92,0001. worth were struck off, and the
Mint had been given to understand that the pressure
was not now so bad that the public could not wait until
the demand for gold had decreased.
Mr. HUME wished to know if there was any inten-
tion to establish a mint in Australia ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
the subject had been under the anxious considera-
tion of the Government. The mind, however, of
the Government was made up on the subject, and their
views only remained to be put into shape before being
brought before Parliament.

AVERAGE PRICE OF CORN.
Sir G. B. PECHELL wished to ask the President of
the Board of Trade when he intends to introduce a mea-
sure for amending the present system of ascertaining the
average prices of British corn ?
Mr. CARDWELL said the whole subject of collect.
ing the agricultural statistics was now under the con-
sideration of the Government.
THE CA SE OF MURRAY. s
Lord D. STUART wished to know if the noble lord
the member for the city of London had ascertained if
Mr. Edward Murray was a British subject.
Lord J. RUSSELL said he had looked through all
the papers and dispatches upon the case of Mr. Murray,
and he found that Mr. Murray was uniformly treated as
a British subject.
LONDON BRIDGE APPROACHES FUND.
In answer to a qtestion put by Sir H. WILLOUGHBY,
Mr. WILSON mid that two-thirds of the return
referred to had already been laid on the table of the
house. The rema'ning third was not in the power of
Government to furnish, but it was the duty of the city
of London to furnish it. He had, on Saturday, die-
patched a messenger to request that that return might
be made as soon as possible ; and he was able to inform
the house that it had been received, and could be pro-
cured by honourable members before the debate on the
subject came on.
RAILWAY ACCIDENTS.
Sir J. PAKINGFON said, that seeing the President
of the Board of Trade in his place, he wished to put to
him a question, of which he had not given notice. He
wished to ask him I his attention had been directed to
the great sacrifice of human life by means of railway
accidents, and whdher it was his intention to consider
any measure which might prevent such frequent catas-
trophes.
Mr. CARDWELL said that the right hon. gentleman
had only done him justice in supposing that he could an-
swer a question of such a description without notice.
Before entering office he had been an eye witness of one
of those catastrophes. Upon coming into office he had
communicated wit'. the railway authorities, and re-
quested them to give their attention to the subject of
establishing a means of communication between the
guard and driver. The subject was at present under-
going the most careful consideration, and he had sent
Captain Symond to observe the plans adopted on the
French and Belgian railways, and that gentleman would
shortly be able to g.ve his evidence before the committee
now sitting to inquire into that subject.
SHERIFF'S COURT (SCOTLAND) BILL.

In reply to a question put by Mr. CRAWFURD,
The LORD ADVOCATE stated that it was not his
intention to take the debate upon the second reading of
this bill before next Thursday week.
In reply to Mr. J. MACGREGOR,
Mr. WILSON said the Commissioners of Customs
had shown the greatest anxiety during the last three or
four years, obviating the inconvenience arising from the
examination of the luggage of persons arriving from
France. He, in conjunction with the commissioners,
had considered the subject, and they had made arrange-
ments by which officers would be in attendance at the
Lon don-bridge station to meet the night train from
Dover, and thus the detention of passengers would be
provented.

DETENTION OF PASSENGERS AT DOVER.
Mr. JAS. MACGREGOR begged to call the attention of
t'he honourable gentleman opposite, the Secretary of the
!Treasury, to the delay that is at present experienced at
Dover by persons travelling between this country and
France. It happened that on various occasions the per-
sons travelling to London from Paris by the night mail
were unable to reach London at the early hour they might
have done were they not detained at Dover to have their
luggage examined, and thereby prevented from travelling
by the first train. It was not his intention now to press
the question of which he had given notice on this subject,
but he thought it would be well if the house were put in
possession of some data on which to form an opinion as to
the policy of introducing some modification of the present
spstem of examining passengers' luggage between Dover
and the metropolis. The number of passengers travelling,
last year 'between England and France was 172,600. Of that
number 22,272 made the journey between London and
Paris by night, leaving by the half-past seven train, and
accomplishing the distance in 12 hours; 10,210 persons
came from Paris to London by the night packet. He
would suggest, in such a case, that the same facilities which
the French Custom-house afforded to travellers should be
extended by. our Custom-house officers.
Mr. WILSON—The question of which the honourable
gentleman gave notice had reference exclusively to the
night mail from Paris—departing from Paris at seven
o'clock, and arriving in London at eight o'clock in the
morning. It is but fair, in justice to the commissioners of
customs, to say, that it is their desire to afford the greatest
possible facility to passengers. One of the arrangements
that has been made by them in reference to this particular
question is, that their officers should remain up all night,
in order to examine the baggage at the station, prior to the
departure of the London mails. lam further bound to
say that it appears, on inquiry, that the arrival of the
boats, especially in winter, is uncertain, and that, on the
departure of the mail trains, it frequently happens that
passengers are left behind, and more frequently that their
luggage is left behind. I have had a communication with
the commissioners of customs on the matter, and, after
consideration, they have made an arrangement to meet the
difficulty. It is proposed that officers of the custom-house
shall be in attendance at London-bridge station in order to
don, that atwaths they should
meet the night train from Dover; but as it would fre-
quently happen that the boat would arrive in Dover long
before the departure of the train, and passengers
proposed
while complain that they had an hour to spend in Dover need-
lessly,while facilities
wtieersewaegraeinagdoertdaiend in detained in London,Lo
not take away the facilities in Dover. If the passenger
arrives in time, his luggage will be examined in Dover, and
if the time does not suit, the examination will take place
in London. (Hear, hear.) I hope the officers in Dover
will receive instructions to telegraph on the departure of
the train, so that the authorities an London may be in-
formed whether the examination has taken place in Dover
or not, so that if it has taken place in Dover it will not be
necessary to detain them in London. To enable the autho-
rities to take the names of aliens, it will be necessary that
the ship list of passengers should be sent forward with the
baggage

apply to it—if you look to the aggregate amount of Bri-
tish tonnage entered inwards and cleared outwards, or the
amount of tonnage that is owned in the ports of the Bri-
tish empire, ,or the number of men that is employed in the
mercantile marine, or the activity that prevails in all the
great ports where the building of ships, is carried on—if
you measure the question by any one of those tests, they
present to ,you but one uniform result—a result of unex-
ampled prosperity. (Hear, hear.) Sir, it is no part of
my province—and certainly I shall not trespass into that
ground—to account for this prosperity. Perhaps the time
has come when I might enter into those topics without any
fear of reawakening ancient controversies ; but, irrespec-
tive of those controversies altogether, there are peculiar
reasons which present themselves, and enter largely into
the case ; but whatever they may be, I shall not run any
risk of awakening controversies on an occasion on which I
am merely asking for permission to introduce a bill, and
may anticipate that I will receive the concurrence of the
committee. (Hear, hear.) The committee are well ac-
quainted that, from the time of the peace to the time of
Mr. Huskissori, instead of there being an increase in the
number of ships owned by the subjects of this country,
there was a positive diminution, and also a diminution
in the number of men employed. In 1815, the tonnage
amounted to 2,681,000 ; in 1825 it had fallen to 2,533,000,
and the men had fallen in the same proportion. From the
time of Mr. Huskisson down to the present, there is
scarcely an instance that does not continuously show the
reverse ; and if we compare the year that has just expired
with the year 1849 we will find that, while the total
amount of British tonnage inwards and outwards
amounted in 1849 to 8,152,000 tons, it amounted in 1852
to no less than 8,727,000 tons. (Hear.) And if you take
the number of ships built in 1849 you will find them
amount to .121,000 tons, while in 1852 they had risen to
167,000 tons. (Hear, hear.) But is it only in material
prosperity that the shipping interest has been elevated ?
(Hear, hear.) The community is indebted to the right
honourable gentleman the member for Taunton for a mea-
sure of great importance, and which has tended to elevate
the character of the mercantile marine. Ido not mean to
say that the details of the measure may not be susceptible
of improvement ; that might naturally be expected when
he had to deal, for the first time, with a question that in-
volved such complicated arrangements ; but I think if you
look to the broad result, the house and the country have
reason to be grateful to my right honourable friend for the
policy which he has mainly inaugurated. (Hear, hear.)
Let me ask you to look to the result of that important
question—the examination of British masters and mates.
(Hoar, hear.) It was painful to see, during the discussion
on the navigation laws, the reflections that were made on
that hard working body of our fellow-countrymen ; but it
appears that the total number of masters and mates that
have obtained certificates of competence in two years,
amounts to s,o69—(hear, hear)—and let me call your par-
ticular attention to this, that whereas my right honourable
friend had provided in respect to those that had already
served, that they should not be obliged to pass an exami-
nation to obtain a certificate of competency, their certifi-
cate of service entitling them to the same privileges as
those who had passed an examination, yet so great is the
value set in the mercantile marine on the circumstance of
having passed the examination, that out of this total num-
ber of 5,069 who obtained certificates of competency, no
less than 1,879 had already obtained certificates of service,
and need not be subjected to examination. (Hear, hear.)
There were to be found in the naval service, men who were
thus corning in voluntarily to pass an examination and to
obtain certificates of competency, and this is a proof of the
moral prokress that is being made by our mercantile marine.
(Hear.) The right hon. gentleman, as it appears to me,
most judiciously put an end to that baneful system which
went by the name of the Merchant Seamans' Fund, from
which in return for a compulsory tax they had b. precarious
provision for declining years, and also an insolvent fund ;
and I am happy to say that by the new arrangement that
which was a complicated process works most agreeably
under the officers appointed to manage it. (Hear, hear.)
There is now in progress a system for providing for the
comforts of sailors in their declining years, and for ad-
ministering to their material as well as to their moral ne-
cessities. There has grown up a system called a system for
the establishment of sailors' homes, having comfortable
accommodation, a registration, savings banks, and all other
appliances calculated to secure the comfort of the seaman
and to elevate his character. (Hear, hear.) With the
permission of the house I shall read a short extract from
the report of the Sailors' Home, with which I happen
myself to be more particularly acquainted, having known
it from the time it was founded, in the year 1846, by
Prince Albert, up to the present time. (Hear, hear.)
I think the committee will listen with interest
to a passage from the report that describes its
material progress. The following extract is taken from
the report in reference to the Liverpool Sailors' Home :
" All seamen visiting this port have now not only the
great advantages, hitherto presented to them under the
temporary arrangements of theinstitution for the last seven
years, of recording a good character, of depositing their
money in safety, and of having it transmitted to any
quarter they may desire ; but they have now the oppor-
tunity afforded them of enjoying in this spacious and
splendid establishment a degree of substantial comfort
and security to which they have hitherto been strangers."
Now, sir, I mention these things bacause in introducing
this subject to the house it is nght you should know what
is the present state, both material and moral, of the dif-
ferent branches of the service to which my measure refers.
I have endeavoured to compress this within the shortest ,
space that would allow me to give an accurate view of the
subject to which I call attention. And now permit me to
tell you what are the subjects which the Government have
had under their consideration with regard tothemercantile
marine. (Hear, hear.) First, they have had under their
consideration the question of lights ; secondly, the question
of passing tolls ; thirdly, the restrictions that exist with
respect to the manning of the mercantile marine ; fourthly,
the question of volunteering into the navy ; fifthly, sal-
vage ; sixthly, desertion ; seventhly, the fees to consuls ;
and eighthly, the question of pilotage. (Hear, hear.) On
every one of these it will be my duty to trouble the com-
mittee, but I shall do it as shortly as possible ; and first of
all I will enter upon that important subject of the lights.
The complaint made by the mercantile marine is this, they
say that under the system as it now exists in this country
dues are compulsorily levied on the mercantile marine and
disposed of by the independent action of a self-elected body,
without being subject to the control of Parliament. That
is a grievance of which the mercantile marine complains.
To the principle involved in that demand the Government
strictly and without reserve subscribe, and I hope I shall
satisfy you before I conclude that the object which the
mercantile marine has in view will be efficiently and com-
pletely met. (Hear, hear.) Now let us bear in mind what
is the history of this question. By the original law the
erection of beacons and lights at sea was part of the royal
prerogative, but so long ago as the Bth of Elizabeth the
Trinity House was entitled to exercise that power. (Hear.)
The mode in which they proceeded was this—when the
mercantile marine desired to erect lights they memoralised
the board of the Trinity House : they required them to
advance their capital in erecting the light, and they agreed
to contribute a certain toll as a remuneration for that out-
lay ; and the usual provision was, that the surplus revenue
should be employed for the purpose for which in part the
Trinity House was incorporated, namely, for the relief of
distressed persons engaged in the mercantile marine service.
(Hear, hear.) The practice has continued from that day to
the present time. With regard to the lights in Scotland
and Ireland, ,they are placed by statutory provision under
two bodies known as the Commissioners of Northern Lights
and the Ballast Board of Dublin. (Hear, hear.) Now
the question is, how have the powers possessed by them
being exercised—have the lights of this country been effi-
cient, and have the powers been exercised for the purposes
for which they were given ? In the year 1845 a committee
was presided over by my hon. friend the member for Mon-
trose, whose services on this subject have been eminent,
and that committees had the satisfaction of reporting ac-
cording to the evidence laid before them, that generally
tho public lights on the coasts of England, under the ma-
nagement of the Trinity House—on the coasts of Scotland,
under the management of the Northern Commissioners in
Edinburgh—and the lights on the coasts of Ireland, under
the management of the Ballast Board in Dublin, were all
maintained in an efficient state. I beg to read the follow-
ing passage from their report :—" Your committee has
the satisfaction of reporting that, according to the evidence
before them, the public general lights on the coasts of
England, under the management of the Trinity House in
London ; those on the coasts of Scotland, under the ma-
nagement of the Northern Commissioners in Edinburgh ;
and the lights on the coast of Ireland, under the manage-
ment of the Ballast Board in Dublin, are all maintained
in an efficient state. Among the witnesses, Captain
Moore, who has been for 23 years in the trade between the
United States of America and England, states that he
cobsiders the English lights' on the whole, better than
those of the United States, Captain Washington, R.N.,
of the surveying department on the coast, says that ' ge-
nerally speaking the lights, light vessels, buoys, and bea-
cons are efficient ; the lights brilliant, and the lighthouses
clean, and in high order.' Captain Denham, R.N., also a
marine surveyor, and long employed on the coasts, bears
the same testimony to the efficiency of the lights of the
United Kingdom. On the 19th of February, 1844, the
secretary to the Trinity House in London, in a letter to
the secretary of the Ballast Board of Dublin, ' expresses
the great satisfaction with which the Trinity House had .
received the report of their visiting committee, and of the
efficient state of the lighting apparatus throughout Ire-
land.' And, on the 21st of February, 1844, the secretary
to the Trinity House, in a letter to the secretary of the
Commissioners of Northern Lights, states :—" I have it in
command to request you will express to the commissioners
the satisfaction of the elder brethren at being enabled to
communicate that the lamps and entire apparatus were
found to be in perfect and efficient order throughout the
lighthouses in that part of the United Kingdom." Now,
sir, those were the opinions which the committee thought
it only duo to those bodies to place emphatically on record.
(Hear, hear.) But, sir, it is some time since 1845, and the
committee will naturally ask, are you in possession of any
evidence with regard to the present state of the lights of
the United Kingdom, and can you show from unimpeach-
able testimony the state they have been in down to a later
period. (Hear, hear) ? Now, sir, who are our great rivals
in maritime supremacy, and to whose example or authority
do we appeal when we desire to see whether our institu-
tions are in a sound and efficient state ? Sir, in all matters of
material prosperity and maritime supremacy, if we seek
for a rival amongst other nations, the palm will be assigned
to our competitors in the United States ; and certainly,
in the committee of 1845, the somparison that ran through
the minds of its members was, as my hon. friend the
member for Montrose will remember, a comparison chiefly
between Great Britain and the United States. (Hear.)
In the year 1851, a board of inquiry was ordered by the
American Government to inquire into the condition of the
lighthouse establishments of the United States, and in the
year 1852 their report was laid before the Senate. The
committee will naturally be very anxious to hear what they
say about
the lights in Great Britain, and I beg to call
attention to a remarkable passage in their report, which
finds fault with the system as it exists in the United States,
and quotes, for emulation by the United States, the example
of Great Britain. (Hear.) The following is the passage
to which I beg to call the attention of the' committee :
" That the lights of the United States do not compare
favourably, either in efficiency or in economy, with those of
Great Britain and France. In the Trinity House corpora-
tion of London, the important subjects of experimenting
upon different descriptions of combustibles for lighthouses,
testing the mathematical perfection of apparatus, investi-
gating the important subject of ventilation, &c., are con-
fided to the world-renowned Michael Faraday; upon the
subject of constriction and its accessories, Mr James
Walker, a distinguished civil engineer, is employed. In
Scotland, the lights and other aids to navigation are under
the immediate direction and superintendence of the able and
distinguished engineer Mr. Alan Stephenson. In Ireland.
also, the lights are in charge of a competent engineer, Mr.
George Halpin. . . . To expect that our
withligphetes
st should
compare, in point of excellence and economy,
80 constituted as those named would be to exy stems
er
out of anarchy and confusion, and perfection out of osruch

various and imperfect elements. In England, the Duke of
Wellington presides,
while the prince, the peer, the admi-
aranld, tdheevicesominionaonns for alleviatingeandere the
hardshipstiredseacapt ainansidtltoessgeenthinegr
the dangers of the mariner in approaching their dangerous
coast." With respect to our success under that system,
whatever may be its -faults, which we have hitherto pur-
sued,tghattha tot e
xt epne de
ts
thtoeimr
lairightitma etosuucocinespsaesre,,-
wand
ithythoueyr
this is the testimony of your great rivals—rivals in
ceovnserYilehrin
lights would be to expect order out of confusion, and per-
fection out of imperfect elements. (Hear, hear.; A pi•e-
judice has prevailed with regard to the application of the
funds of the Trinity House, and no person who hears me can fail to have heard remarks made with respect
to the enormous receipts paid into their coffers, and doubts
expressed as to the mode in which they have been em-
ployed. It is very natural that, where there is no system
of perfect control in reference to the accounts, there
should be misapprehension and misconstruction, and I am
not making any complaint that those impressions should
prevail, but let me ask of the committee to consider the
real circumstances of the case. In the year 1836 you im-
posed upon the corporation of the Trinity House the ne-
cessity of purchasing a great number of private light-
houses, and incurring an expenditure which amounts on
the whole to no less than one million and a quarter.
During the interval that has elapsed since 1836, they have
not been occupied, with regard to their surplus revenues,
either in funding them for their own benefit, or in dis-
tributing them in some improper channel ; but what are
the facts? That money has been applied for the purpose
of liquidating the debt which you imposed upon them ;
and, the debt in 1836 of a million and a quarter has been
reduced to 97,5001. (Hear.) It should also be recollected
that the differential dues, abolished by the reciprocity
treaty, have been compensated for to private individuals
out •of the tolls paid by the mercantile marine ; that, at
least, is no fault of the corporation ; it may have been
wrong or it may have been right, but justice requires that
this should be stated, because it is the truth. (Hear, hear.)
Concurrently with this reduction of debt, there has been
the following reduction of light dues : —ln 1849 there was
a reduction that by estimate amounted to 80,0001., and in
1852 there was a reduction of 38,000/. ; and witheue en-
tering into details at the present moment, I have the
pleasure of informing the committee that I do not think
the budget of reductions has been exhausted. (Hear.)
Then comes the question to which, with the permission of
the house, I will apply myself, namely, what is the proper
mode of providing that the mercantile' marine shall .have
those advantages of control over receipts and expenditure,
and the accountability and responsibility to Parl*noti-
which the mercantile interest, justly in our opinion, think
they are entitled to? (Hear, hear.) The hon. member
for Montrose considered the constitution of the Trinity
House in two committees, and here is the recommendation
that was given by the committee that sat in 1834 :—" Your
committee recommend one board resident in London. The
constitution of the (Trinity House) board is that of self-
election, and your committee have been anxious to ascer-
tain whether any and what constituency could be obtained
to give the board a more liberal character • but they have
been unable to find out any proper constituency, and do
not at present see how they can recommend any great
alteration. Upon the whole, your committee are of opinion
that the corporation of the Trinity House, of Deptford
Strond, having been chartered ' for the good government
and increase of navigation,' and the office of bnoyage and
bea,conage having been granted to that body upon the sur-
render thereof by the Lord High Admiral, and the greater
part of the lighthouses in England having been erected,
and being now maintained by that corporation, and this
committee being satisfied, after inquiring into the lights
now under their charge, that the said corporation are well
calculated, after some modifications in the regulations under
which they admit their members, to have the management-
and control of the whole department of lights, recommend
that all general public lights in the United Kingdom be
placed under the management of the said corporation."
Again, in 1845, there was a committee over which my hon.
friend presided, and a recommendation was made that
there should be only one board resident in London, and
that that central board should be the Trinity Board ; and
that one-third of the Trinity Board should be nominated
by the Crown. The Government have carefully considered
those recommendations. (Hear.) We think that there
should be an additional control over the accounts of're-
ceipts and expenditure by some person whose station in
the executive Government renders him responsible to Par-
liament. (Hear.) That is the opinion which the Govern-
ment entertain, and we shall be ready to state our reasons
for holding it. (Hear, hear.) We think there are objec-
tions to the proposal to consolidate the lights of Ireland
and Scotland under the management of the Trinity House,
because the commissioners act gratuitously in Scotland, and
because it would raise in Ireland an impression with re-
gard to centralization which we have no regard to give any
suspicion of in regard to our arrangements. (Hear, hear.)
Then with regard to the composition of the Trinity souse,
the power of nominating one-third of the elder brethren
by the Crown would confer patronage on the Crown, but
leave its nominees in a minority of one to two within the
walls, and it might have a great tendency to create what
is always most undesirable in any governing body—a need-
less hostility between those who owe their seats to one
mode of election and those who owe it to another mode of
election. (Hear.) It is, therefore, desirable that these
three bodies should not be changed in their own constitu-
tion, but should be placed under the control of an authority
responsible to Parliament for all their receipts and expen-
diture ; and therefore this" house, acting directly on the
Executive Government, will virtually exercise that con-
trol which my hon. friend stated ought to be exercised on
behalf of the mercantile marine ; and I venture to say that
is a more constitutional and efficient control than could be
attained by any partial change in those bodies. Those
being the views of the Goveanment, they were communi-
cated to the Trinity House, and they returned an answer
which I shall lay on the table of the house—an answer
agreed to unanimously by the Trinity House, and signed
by the Master of the Trinity House, his Royal Highness
the Prince Consort. What the Government desired was,
first, to establish a control by a Government authority
directly responsible to Parliament over the collection and
expenditure of their revenues ; secondly, a periodical
audits ; and, thirdly, to suspend the granting of new pen-
sions and charities. The. Trinity House authorities were
pleased to state their entire acquiescence in the first two
propositions; and with regard to the third, they put in a
plea, which came from trustees appointed by charters
dated from the earliest period, for the purpose of distri-
buting charities to decayed mariners, which I am sure the
committee will receive with respect. But that claim has
' not been acceeded to by the Government. The Govern-
ment consider that whatever may have been the origin of
those light dues, the time has arrived when, from the
increase of commerce and the change in the practice and
feeling on those matters, the mercantile marine are entitled
to have this tax levied for light dues and applied to light
dues. (Hear, hear.) And in my answer to the Trinity
House I have spoken in these words :—" The principles
which regulate the receipt, control, and expenditure of
moneys compulsorily levied upon the public for the general
purposes of the community, will henceforth be applied to
the sums payable to the Trinity House for lights, buoys,
beacons, ballastage, in short, to all sums without exception
levied upon and paid by the mercantile marine. The gross
receipts will be carried to a separate account at the Bank
of England, from which no payment can be made except
by the authority of a department of her Majesty's Govern-
ment responsible to the houses of Parliament. The ac-
counts will be regularly forwarded to the Board of Trade,
and thence, after examination, will be transmitted to the
Commissioners of Audit. A full statement of the accounts
of the past year will be regularly laid before Parliament.
The provision of the statute 6 and 7 Will. c. 79, for re-
ducing the dues upon the requisition of the Sovereign in
Council, will at at all times be carried into effect so soon
as, in the opinion of her Majesty's Government, the state
of the fund will admit, without any regard to any consi-
deration whatever except the efficiency of the several ser-
vices for which those dues are levied. It appears to her
Majesty's Government that the mercantile marine is justly
entitled to these advantages, and that the scheme proposed
by the Trinity House will secure them." Then, in answer
to their demand to be heard on this subject, the Govern-
ment have stated that they are prepared to give an impar-
tial consideration to the views that may be urged for the
continuance of those pensions. But, in vindication of the
opposite view taken by the Government, I ni,,,y appeal to
the report of the select committee on foreign trade so long
ago as 1822, by which that view is confirmed. Then the
Trinity House took the opinion of the Attorney and Solicitor
General as to the right in question. But nobody questions
their right so long as the charters remain ; nor does any-
body charge them with any dereliction of duty in adminis-
tering the funds which they are empowered to distribute.
In 1824, however, the Government said the opinion of
the law officers appeared to have been taken under a mis-
taken impression of their views ; for the objection of the
committee did not apply to the distribution, but to the
principle. Well, these are the views which the Govern-
ment thought it their duty to communicate to the Trinity
House—that there ought to be parliamentary controul and
parliamentary responsibility ; and that, further, there
ought to be a strict
'application of the funds to the pur-
poses for which those funds were levied. And here let me
pay a tribute to the spirit in which we have been met. I
have referred to the Master of the Trinity House. Let me
acknowledge the obligations of the Government to the
Deputy-Master and Elder Brethren for the sincere spirit
with which they have endeavoured to recognise the dis-
charge of their important duties with their sense of the
public requirements and the national benefit. (Hear, hear.)
And let me ask you to enter upon the assumption of this
controul in a similar spirit of confidence and sincerity.
Now, I have said nothing on the subject of harbour lights
in all this, because those lights are very numerous, and
are mixed up in most cases with other funds. That sub-
ject, we conceive, does not fall within the province of im-
perial legislation. If we do not intend by the bill to deal
with the harbour lights, it is not because we wish that any-
thing should remain improper or inconsistent with regard
to them, but it is because it does not belong to the regula-
tion of the imperial lights of the kingdom. Now, there is
a connection between the harbour lights and the next sub-
ject to which I shall call the attention of the committee.
That subject is one of much more difficulty than has been
commonly supposed. It is known as the
question of passing
tolls, but it was much more accurately described by the
(Mr. right hon. gentleman opposite• Disraeli) , when he laid
down the rule that tho taxes on shipping should be
confined to those payments in return for which the
shipping received a benefit—a canon to which I cordially
subscribe. But I want to draw the attention of the com-
mittee to some of the details of the question connected
with this subject of passing tolls. I think it would be nn.
fair in the highest degree to suppose that the right hon.
gentleman opposite would think of charging those tolls on
the Consolidated Fund, if he was in possession of all the
information appertaining to the subject. When the right
honourable gentleman left office, the report of Capt. Vetch
on the harbour of Ramsgate had not been received. Capt.
Vetch—whose report has been recently received—after -re-
viewing the inquiries of those who had formerly preced
him in the investigation of that harbour, said he differ ed
ed
very materially from those predecessors as to the
tude of the toll necessary to be levied at mag-ni.
all, and he had
come to the conclusion that by a proper arra bour of Ramsgate might be made self-su 41gement the har-
also says there is an old duty of 2d. a Ptr mg. Capt. Vetch
the town Of Ramsgate under its oli non coals levied in
be repealed, for it is monstrous toP ee
act
which ought to
as that should continue to im o suppose that such a town
such a purpose. (Hear, head) 1 a thll
of that kind for
information before him, woSurely no one, with this
rates of Ramsgate should be bornecommend that the local
of this kingdom. (Hear hear.) by the general taxpayers
the whole truth befor 'we I think we ought to know
Now, I had a visit frome t c assent to such a proposition.
member for Scarborough wo gentlemen—the poble lord the
—and they said ther g.
and the hon. member for .ITeunl
for abolishing what ? is a private bill before
ofrarn- m
whitby.
That bill they said is called the passing toll of Neweas"
was promoted by the people d that such
tle-upon.m.-
~ . -upon and Sunderland, upon the ground
unjust. The
a toll is inconsistent with public olicy, "", %consistent
noble lord and the hon. member
with public policy, but considering
tary title of 150 years' standing,
liament • and they the peoPle of No
sayw°•oll,Vniatter for P.ar-
that ist
may be iinJu L
it say it InaY.ol,lparliamen-
but considering
Lee rate on the export
t'una- support of their
a for the
of coals from theiri t
own rives

_
borough fund, we do not exactly see the justice of their de-
mand. Now, observe -the position in which you stand.
These tolls are not tolls exclusively upon the ship, but tolls,
in many cases, on goods carried in the ship. (Hear.) Ifs
that a tax on the shipowner or on the coal' consumer, or is
it a mixed tax shared by both? If it be a tax on the ships
owner, then the coal is taxed at the port it; leaves, at the
port by which it passes, and at the port to which it comes,
(Hear, hear.) But can you draw a distinct line of demar.
cation between the cases of those four ports, and the cases
contained in the two voluminous returns which my hon-
ourable friend the member for Montrose, firsa, in 1845, and
again in 1846, laid on the table of this house ? I say it is
necessary to have a more complete inquiry before we can
decide on this question, and before we can place this charge
on the Consolidated Fund. And when we talk about
"injured interests," let me say one word about that "in.
jured interest," the Consolidated Fund. The Consolidated
Fund is an aggregate of the hard-earned taxes of the people
of this country ; you impose 40,0001. on the Consolidated
Fund, and you do more harm to the people of this country
when you ask for a remission of taxes and do not furnish
the grounds on which it is to be made. The Consolidated
Fund has already paid an aggregate of 802,001)/. for various
local dues, and the annual charge upon that fund is now
39,0001. Under these circumstances the Government in.
tend to institute such an inquiry as that to which I have
referred. But there is another reason why inquiry should
become, if not necessary, at least desirable. There is a
grievance to which the mercantile marine is subject, and
re-
pealed o
is
oc
earnestlyau ter the
navigationgreat
directed
from which they desire to be relieved, and that is the
laws,
to
n concessions
The
obtain et
ttethe
attention
whichtni
owe
no
necessary
re-
luctance on the part of some important foreign powers to
when we lowered our tariff, and particularly when we re-
peosmfanat dryh the
reliefth t hfeGovern-
mentthenmr mercantile marine in this matter ; though it is
my duty to state it is attended with muchpractical
difficulty. I have now stated the views which the
Govern-
ment entertain with regard to the questions of lights
and harbours, whether they be harbour lights or other dues.
For the first there will be a complete parliamentary con-
trol, and for the second a complete investigation and in-
quiry. I will now proceed to touch upon the Adminalty
question. First comes the question whether it is expedient
that we should continue to retain the restriction which
requires a British crew to consist of three parts British
subjects, and only one part foreign. (Hear, hear.) The
advocates of a continuance of that restriction say, " look
at the returns and you will find there can be no great ad-
vantage in employing foreigners, because the privilege
;which now exists is by no means appreciated." It is
ii*Alfest that that is no answer to the case, because the
'object is to have the choice of emploniggforeign or British
seamen in such proportions as may be'lll.l. ought neeessary.
I doubt very much whether the time ever was when this
regulation presented so sensible an obstruction as at the
present time. I have here a letter from the Peninsular
and Oriental Company to the Secretary of the Admiralty.,
in which they say that it is not now a question of freight
at all ; but it has become a question whether you can have
ships and sailors. I have just received from our consul
at Christiana a letter, dated 6th December, in which he
says it has been asserted that Norwegian vessels are navi-
gated much cheaper than British, because the master is
ill-paid and the crews are badly fed ; but he says
the fact is the reverse—that the Norwegiamaster
is generally better paid and his crew better astthan
the English. Now, after the observations I have made,
the committee will be prepared to be told that the Go-
vernment do not propose to retain such a restriction.
(Hear, hear.) I well remember the noble lord the member
for the city of London saying that Protection was the bane
of agriculture. I hope the time will come when everybody
will believe that to British seamanship, as well as to Bri-
tish ship-owning and British ship-building, you may with
safety apply the maxim of free intercourse, and that
neither on behalf of the one nor of the other is there any
reason for British seamen to fear competition. (Hear,
hear.) The next question relates to the system of volun-
teering into the navy. I think it would be a great dis-
couragement to British subjects to go on board of ship if
they heard in whatever part of the world they might be--
if they should chance to happen to have ever so tyrannical
a master—if their diet was ever so insufficient—or their
condition ever so undesirable—that there was no hope of
relief for them until the completion of the voyage ; and I
think some right of appeal to a British authority may be
safely given to a person so poor and defenceless as the
British seaman. (Hear.) I will here relate an anecdote
which ought to be known for the honour of the Queen's
service. The difficulties that are felt in Australia at the
present moment must be familiar to the minds of every
gentleman in this house connected with the business of ship-
owning. Those difficulties were felt three years ago in
California;• and what was done by a British officer ? On
the 4th of October, 1849, Captain Shepherd, of the Incon-
stant, arrived at San Francisco, and immediately after-
wards set about ascertaining the condition of the British
ships there. He found that four of them were ready for
sea, but were stopped for want of men ; but on the 16th of
October, through his exertions, they were all on their way
to Valparaiso, manned with officers from his own ship.
(Hear.) I only mention this circumstance in order that
you may see that there are two sides to this as to every
other question. While, however, the Government do not
intend entirely to abolish the power in question, they do
intend to bring in enactments on the subject. If pecu-
niary loss arise to the shipoWner in consequence of such
volunteering, it is proposed that he shall be entitled to
receive compensation out of the funds of the Admiralty.
Thus both the seaman and the shipowner will have justice
done them. Then I next approach ,the question of sal-
vage. There are persons who think that the right of
salvage in regard to the Queen's service ought to
be entirely abolished. I hold it to be no dispa-
ragement to that service that the entire removal from them
of everything in the nature of reward in cases of help af-
forded in cases of extreme hardship would be regarded by
them as a great injustice. Lord Tenterden, a great legal
authority, says the law of Great Britain is more liberal
than that of Europe upon this subject. But there is a
grievance connected with this question • and that is,_ that
the law gives a temporary lien in certain; cases on things
which are the subject of salvage, and I am authorised to
state on the part of my right hon. friend the First Lord of
the Admiralty, that arrangements are in preparation
whereby in cases of that nature that claim of lien may be
released. I find from the representations of a deputation
with whom I had a recent interview, that the jurisdiction
of the Court of Admiralty is objected to in certain quar-
ters. But when I consider that Lord Stowell once pre-
sided over that court, and that it is now presided over by
Dr. Lushington, I think we should have been very pre-
sumptuous to have taken the advice of ALM, deputation. I
come next to the case of desertion ; and there again, I say,
clauses are in preparation which are intended to remedy
those difficulties under which the shipowners labour in
Australia by reason of the desertion of their men in quest
of gold in that colony. That question then will in a short
time be dealt with by the Government. I next come to
the question of consulates. There must be some erroneous
impressions abroad on this subject. Those consulates are all regulated by act of Parliament in conformity with the re-
commendations of committees of inquiry on the subject,
and I think those who make objections cannot be aware that
according to the latest returns from the Foreign-office the
general tax-paying body of this country paid in one year
105,0001. in respect of consuls' fees. I have heard that in one
department, one consul had received nearly 5,0001. It is
true, however, that recent amendments of the Mercantile
Marine Act have thrown additional duties on consuls in fo-
reign ports. This subject, however, is one which rests en-
tirely with the Foreign-office. I have' had interviews with
Lord Clarendon on the subject; he entered very readily into the
spirit in which the complaints had been made, and I hope
that the committee will be satisfied that, as respects the
consulates, her Majesty's Government are not disinclined
to effect any remedy that may be called for. I now come
to the question of pilota.ge. The right hon. gentleman
opposite (Mr. Disraeli) announced to the house the inten-
tion of her Majesty's late Government to appoint a com-
mittee to inquire into this subject, justly thinking than an
inquiry was needed before any effectual legislation could
be adopted for the purpose of meeting the numerous
grievances alleged on this subject. lam not sure that I
know with perfect accuracy how many separate pilot juris-
dictions there are in the three kingdoms. I have had a list
transmitted to me of between 50 and 60 of them. (Hear,)
I venture to submit to the house that its past experience
with respect to committees of inquiry has not been so en-
tirely satisfactory upon the subject of pilotage as that we
ought to confine ourselves exclusively to that mode of in-
the late Sir R
in-
quiry. So long ago as 1835 R. Peel appointed
a commission to investigate the subject. That commission
was composed of many eminent men, and there were among
them those to whom certainly it could not be imputed that
they were rash, or ready to recommend precipitate steps on
the subject. I find among the names of the commissioners
those of Lord Lonsdale, the Marquis of Bute, Sir John
Hardy, Mr. Robinson, Mr. Chapman. If inquiry is neces-
sary in the case of some of the ports, it cannot be denied
that with respect to some others we have ample evidence
to warrant us in proceeding at once. What are the
instance, griev-
ances, for ns of the port of London ? The right hon.
gentleman (Mr. Disraeli) justly treated in a vein of ridi-
cule the idea that a person who was competent to navigate a
ship up the river was incompetent to navigate the same
ship down the river, ier that a person who was compe.
tent to navigate a ship down could not be trusted with her
up the river. (A laugh.) I am told that there is some
difference between navigating a ship up• and down the
river. Be this as it may, I think that he who would
trust his ship to the care of a man who could navigate
his ship up the river, and was not able to navigate it
down, would certainly be a rash man. (Hear, 'hear,)
)
There is no doubt, however, that this system lead r.
higher charges, and to the employment of t t-
sons per
sons to do the work of one ; it leads also to
uniformity of system in the control over the ila want of
Majesty's Government fully subscribe to the P ota. Her
control over the pilotage is necessarily a l opinion that
that it should be left as far as possible local matter, and
That is no reason, however, why the
e to local control.
not confer upon the Trinity House t Government should
pilot, who has navigated a shi p. o or the Cinque Port
from Dungeness Point, the p either down the river or
power o back,
instead of travelling home by la f a 8.4'
bill which I have to submit to lid.
(Ilear, hear.) In the
rights of the pilots are' ca f the committee, the vested
their superannuation f re ell
preserved, and neither in
rights will the slighte t nnda nor in any other of avg.!'
made. The
principle laid of the rights of jnstbr
jurisdiction. I.Pie laid down in the bill is that of local
I will ask e interests
of the Cinque Ports those who represent
claim to the ri h to what commerce it is that they lay
gts of pilotage ? Is it not the great Te merce of the city of ought not, therefore, thee
London jurisdict. London ? and
sr
hear.) We pro-
pose, then, in thi!ssotilti°wphrielvae preservingil.ll the rights of
the existing bodies of pilots, to amalgamate ler as that of
and Place them entirely under the same port—the the London Pilots. Let us take the next great
so to which I have
lilerßeY• Lord Lonsdale, in his systemr has been such
alluded, states that in this port the raise the value
by inter-arrangement among th 1,4001. to 4,000/. csr
of a pilot-vessel from
I'2 100 tons burden,
thse:searle
5,0001. ; the coasters above
trade for six or seven 1110:0
heavy
not employed in thatilotage in other
eve
boat entirely exempt from Pthe insian
ee
of
en
oneyear were
comare the dues that for
pilotage for _
an
1319, V the charges
the two ports of London. d
1- 2 890- -or this concludes by stating—
not less than 'report on port
notthe
risk merely
LiverP°°l• The • a question_
ver islives of hundreds who embark in
" This, hovre ,
rtv but the
conceive that some re ions
of prc'Pe- - and we
of yew the ports in which steam-vessels
this class
well for
necessary, as we
those in which they are compelled to
are nee
now exempt as
become the more necessary as steam
are .
Ant, This has.
take plots This so rapidly increasing and extending." In
intvi3ga°ri-eht hon. member for Taunton (Mr. Labouchere)
Ad the
bill by which the pilot authorities were empowered
pass— a
to confer upon masters of vessels, as competent as the pilots
themselves
to conduct their own vessels, the right of so
doing. No persuasion,
however, could induce the pilot
authorities of Liverpool to exercise this power, and examine
masters with respect to their competence. It is true that
they made an offer to exempt them from some of the con-
tributions in respect to pilotage which other people paid, but
when that offer came to be submitted to the law officers of
the Crown it was found that such exemption was against th -
provisions notlocal acts of Live I. Th th " e
e orities, how-
ever, havettempted to bring in any bill to amend their