The Sun.
London, England, 1853-04-26 00:00:00

advantages which accompanied that ,measure ; and, with
regard to the Consolidated. Annuities, denied that t hey had
any relation tO the question, having in themselves been
already condemned in the House of Lords. Further, he
urged that the proposed imposition was a violation of the
Act of Union, which provided that Ireland should contri-
bute to the taxation of the Country in proportion to her
means, in which just proportion she was now paying. In
other respects he approved of the Government measure.
Mr. BUCK opposed the tax, as especially oppressive
towards the farmers of England, who were already a suffer-
ing class.
Mr. BLACKETT, while giving his general support to
the budget, criticised some of its details, alluding particu-
larly to the inquisitorial nature of the income tax, and its
unjust pressure upon precarious incomes. Understanding
the difficulty of dealing with these objections, he thought
it best that arrangements should be made for the final abo-
lition of the tax. All things considered, in short, he was
for " the budget, the whole budget, and nothing but the
budget."
Mr. KNIGHTLEY would not liave objected to the con-
tinuance of the income tax for a few years, but he did not
see the wisdom of legislating for what he might almost call.
posterity. He should feel it his duty, under these circum-
stances, to record his vote against the budget.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS considered the propositions of the
right honourable gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer
to be the most statesmanlike scheme of finance he had
heard laid before the House of Commons. The extension
of the income tax to Ireland was only a measure of justice.
He believed himself able to prove that for every shilling of
taxes which Ireland paid it received two shillings from
this country. In the year 1851, the revenue of this country
was about 56 millions, and of this 4,403,000/. was collected
in Ireland, at a cost of 618,0:31.—that is, at nearly 14 per
cent., while the cost of collecting the revenue in this
country was only 7 per cent. The honourable member for
Cork complained. that Ireland got a very small share of the
remission of taxation. He (Mr. Williams) maintained the
contrary opinion. England paid many taxes from which
Ireland was exempt. The honourable gentleman had also
said that it was only right to take off the four millions
Consolidated Annuities, because they had been lent at a
time of national distress. Now, in his opinion, there were
parts of England in which at that time quite as great dis-
tress existed. In Scotland, the people got on as well as
they could. In Wales, the land was found sufficient to re-
lieve the people, and they were tamed, and contributions
collected, and by this means corn was brought from other
parts of the world. In Ireland, eight millions were
expended by a vote of the House of Commons • and
yet the honourable member for Cork spoke of? that
as a mere trifling circumstance, as a gift which it was
only proper to make at a time of national distress.
When Sir Robert Peel first introduced the income tax, in
1842, he (Mr. Williams) proposed that it should be ex-
tended to Ireland, but only to those incomes that were
taken out of the English Exchequer. There was a million
and a half of the interest of the national debt that was paid
in Ireland. There was the salary of the Lord-Lieutenant,
20,030/. ; with a whole host of officers under him. The
Four Courts cost at least 30,0031., while the pensioners
drew 100,0031. ; and all this money was taken out of the
pockets of the people of England. (No, no.) He said yes,
yes, for these charges appeared in the English and not in
the Irish accounts. He thought the Irish members, there-
fore, had every reason to be satisfied with the present
budget. If they expected to be for ever exempted from
the income tax they might rest assured that they were
much deceived. Here was a most liberal offer made to
them, with which he would advise them to close.
(Laughter and ironical cheers.) The interest of the an-
nuities which were. about to be given up amounted to
240,0001. a year, and they would have had to pay that for
forty years, while the income tax would only last for seven
years. (Laughter.) He would venture to say that the
calculations of the Chancellor of the Exchequer in that re-
spect were perfectly correct. If Parliament chose to take
off that tax, and ten millions more of taxes, which it might
do at the period named, Ireland would reap her full share
of the benefits. He concluded by expressing his entire
concurrence with the budget as a whole. There might be
some things which he would be glad to see removed from
it, but if they were he knew he could not get the advan
tages that would result from the other parts. (Hear,
hear.) On a -view of all the parts of the scheme, and con-
sidering the immense reductions which were *posed, he
thought the right hon. gentleman had shown very great
ability in bringing forward a budget which, in his opinion,
would be highly beneficial to the country.
Mr. MAGUIRE said he was opposed to the budget, and
in stating his reasons for taking that course he would take
his stand upon the merits of the question, as far as re-
garded his own country. If the decision concerned Eng-
land only, he was bound to say that his decision would be
of a somewhat different character. (Laughter.) Were he
an Englishman he might have given a favourable considera-
tion to the budget ; but being an Irishman and feeling
that his country was specially and hardly dealt with in the
case, he felt bound to give it a strenuous resistance. The
hon. member for Cork had already proved that Ireland
paid her full share of Imperial burdens, and he would un-
dertake to prove that Ireland was not in a condition
to have a single pound added to her taxation. But, on
the contrary, it would be a wise and a prudent thing on
the part of -the Minister to reduce the burdens which
pressed upon her. An enthusiastic gentleman had told
them that night that they should be contented—that they
ought to rejoice that there was a great mind busy with the
affairs of Ireland—that they ought to throw aside any
national objection to this liberal boon, out of regard to the
genius which dictated the measure, and for the noble lan-
guage which accompanied its presentation. (Cheers and
laughter.) He could not acquiesce in these counsels—ho
could not appreciate the gift they offered. They might
gloss it over with honeyed words, and envelop it in compli-
ments to Ireland, still it would not go down. Then they
were told that they were to have done with this tax in
1860. He was sorry to be obliged to ask, "Is there any
honourable gentleman on either side of the house so
verdant as to believe that it will go then ?" Sir
Robert Peel said that it was only imposed for three years,
but from his experience so far, it was his opinion it
would live to the age of Dr. Parr. The right hon.
gentleman might say that he would give Ireland 4,000,0001.
let Ireland only take the income tax, and that that
income tax up to the time when he hoped he would be
able to do without it would amount in Ireland to but
3,000,0001. Up to that time it might be so; but did any
one suppose that the income tax would be over then ? To
vote for this would be to betray their constituents, and
would render them worthy to be drummed out of the house.
Every Irish member, then, should stand up against what
he must call an unjust, a wanton, and a most cruel attempt
to impose upon that country taxes which she was not able
to bear. It was all very well to talk of the union when
they wanted to tax Ireland, and to forget the union when
Ireland asked for justice. They would not go to the colo-
nists at the Cape for payment of the cost of the war now
concluded; but they asked Ireland, though she was part
and parcel of the United Kingdom, to pay the Consoli-
dated Annuities. This line of conduct was neither just
nor wise, for Ireland was still worthy of consideration in
these days, and ought to be propitiated by those who were
really anxious to maintain the greatness and the glory of
the empire. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. WARNER, admitting that there were of course in-
equalities in the income tax, thought it the nearest ap-
proach to taxation according to the ability to pay of those
taxed that had ever been attempted. He would, however,
press this on the Government, that, in considering the in-
come tax, allowance should be made, in both countries, for
local purposes. In a few years he hoped they would be
able to do without it at all ; but for a few years it was in-
dispensable. He asked hon. gentlemen if they threw out
this Budget what would be the result? Why they would
get a dissolution. (Opposition cheers.) And what would
be the use of that to them? The people of England and
Scotland would not be deterred from their purpose ; they
would be determined at last to see equal justice done to
England, Scotland, and Ireland. As a whole he heartily
approved of this budget, and should give it his warmest
support. Of course there might be objections to the de-
tails, but he had no doubt they would receive considera-
tion from whatever quarter of the house they came.
(Hear, hear.)
Mr. NEWDEGATE wished to ask whether there was
any member of the Government who would rise in his
place to show a necessity for the renewal of this tax ? By
the Chancellor of the Exchequer's own showing there was
Ilene. When he made his statement he said that if the
house would consent to the imposition of higher custom
duties, and the legacy duty, ho need not ask the house to
continue this tax. He (Mr. Newdegate), looking at this
in its origin—a deficiency under a Whig Administration
of 10,000,0001.—and remembering that it was only sub-
mitted to for three years more to alleviate the distresses
of Ireland, could not but ask honourable gentlemen oppo-
site, who had denounced this tax to their constituents as
unjust and inquisitorial, how they meant to justify the
continuation of it for seven years to themselves ? They
might depend upon it, that if they consented to this tax,
they would be consenting to a burden for which they would
r4-et no credit. He might be met perhaps by a reply that
it would be unfair to personal property if it were subject
to a legacy duty, while real property escaped. His answer
was this —the value of real proper ty is always ascertain-
able ; that of personal can only be discovered at this par-
ticular time. He sought for no advantage for real property ;
but he was sure that if its burdens relative to other
property were understood, it would be seen on which side
the balance lay. This was his objection to the legacy
duty; but it was not his only objection. He objected to
it, because it would take five-twelfths of the income for
the next five years, exactly the period which was most
lepressing, and, in many cases, it would oblige the party
ither to mortgage or to sell a portion of the property in
order to effect the intentions of the testator. (Hear, hear

In conclusion, he would only say with regard to the in-
come tax that he objected to it, because it was unnecessary

at such a period as the present.
Mr. MILNES (who rose at the same time with Mr. H.
Drummond) said be would not detain the house beyond a
few minutes, for he was sure they must be anxious to hear
his honourable friend, whose eloquence and humour would

enliven the debate, which, so far, seemed to him to possess
but little interest. He had one remark in relation to real

property as affected by the budget.. No doubt his right
honourable friend had felt the difficulties of the question.
He believed, however, that his right honourable friend
would take into his consideration the large burdens at pre-
sent laid upon land, and therefore he could not deny that
this was a very great innovation, which would be attended
with results much greater, perhaps, than those which fol-
lowed the repeal of the corn laws. Yet he could not but
believe that this extension of taxation must have been re-
ceived in a very short time, if not this year; and, on the
whole, he was glad to accept it, accompanied with the
scheme which his right honourable friend had proposed.
But the present question was that of the income tax. If,
in case of a dissolution, they went to the country, what
would be the question ? The question would not be be-
tween the'present scheme of taxation and an abstract sys-
tem, but it would between the present budget and that of
last year. (Hear, hear.) Presenting the e ;two budgets,
and having regard to the classes upon whom the extension
of taxation would fall, he believed there was not a consti-

tuency in the kingdoM, from ono end to the other, which
would not pronounce for that of tho right hon. gentleman.
He for one should not fear the result. (Hear.)
Sir W. JOLLIFFE said his hon. friend who had just
sat down had put the case in a totally new light • for in
effect he said—" I am doing away with all the pledges I
made to my constituents ; I am about blindly to follow
the Minister ; I will bow my neck to what ho chooses ; I
am not afraid of my constituents, and I will tell them so."

With respect to the income tax, he contended that if there
was ever a time when it might be removed, the present
was that time, if it was the wish of the house and the
Government. Certainly there was no prospect of the year
1860 or 1861 being so favourable as the present moment,
and he believed it might be removed or modified with
greater facility now than at any future period. There was
a large excess of revenue, and we were about to have
2,000,0001. of additional taxation. Taking the surplus

and this additional taxation, he at once asked whetheithe
right hon. gentleman bad not the power of dealing now
with the income tax ? H 3 would then have his great
weapon ready to fight another day, and it would be
worthy of him ; but instead of taking this course he re-
peals the soap duties, which might have been preserved,
for so great a measure as the repeal of the income tax, All