The Sun.
London, England, 1854-07-04 00:00:00

tions paid by the employes ; and at the present moment
there was in fact a great question among them whether
the superannuations ought not to be larger or the contri-
butions smaller.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS observed that i❑ one case a clerk
retired at the age of 61. His salary was 1,0001., and his re-
tiring allowance 9161.
Captain SCOBELL said he found that about 150 per-
sons had been pat on the retired list for no other reason
than a reduction in the establishments, and the allowances
to these clerks were far beyond the pensions of admirals
and generals.
Lord NAAS asked when a decision would be come to
with regard to the claims of the civil service ?
Mr. WILSON said that was an important question, be-
cause the public servants felt, whether rightly or not was
another matter, that their contributions to the superannua-
tion fund were too large, but it should be borne in mind
that, as in the case of an insurance office at a particular
period, the claims would increase. The whole question,
however, was now under the consideration of Mr. Fin-
laison, and he hoped in a few days to come to some decision
on the subject.
The vote was then agreed to.
The following votes were then agreed to without remark :
--2,5611. for Corsican and Toulonese emigrants, and Ame-
rican loyalists, &c. ; 2,2101. for the Vaccine Establishment ;
3251. for the Refuge of the Destitute, and 4,2001. for Polish
refugees and distressed Spaniards.
The next vote was 4,4691., for miscellaneous charges,
formerly defrayed from the civil list.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS said that nearly all the items in
this vote were objectionable.
Mr. WILSON gave some explanations, which were not
heard in the gallery, but were apparently satisfactory.
Mr. A. PELLATT wished to know where the French
refugee clergy were now performing their duties, or whether
they were really in existence.
Mr. W. WILSON—They were performing duties, one
was at Southampton and another at Jersey.
The vote was then agreed to.
1,3521., for the support of the Foundling Hospital,
Dublin.

Mr. WILLIAMS objected also to this vote. He did
not see why there should be hospitals of the kind main-
tained in Ireland at the public expense. There was no-
thing of the kind done in England and Scotland. He gave
notice to divide on the vote the next year, if it was brought
forward ; as well as on all the other votes of the same
description.
Lord NAAS said the sum voted was for the maintenance
of persons who had been in an institution which was
abolished on the passing of the poor law. The great hos-
pitals in London were supported by endowments given
by the State years ago, otherwise they could not, even in
this great City, exist. It had been proved that the medical
school of Dublin could not exist without this grant ; and
the committee on the subject had expressed a hope that
these grants would not be withheld. The report of the
committee was most favourable to these grants, and he
wished the Government would postpone the grants until
the reports were taken into consideration.
Mr. MITCHELL was for having relative justice done to
Ireland. There was only 2001. for vaccine institutions
granted to Ireland, whereas there was a grant of 2,0001. to
England for the same purpose ; though vaccine matter
was obtainable for nothing in England, whereas it had to
be bought in Ireland.
Mr. WILLIAMS maintained that the Vaccine Estab-
lishment was not to be compared with the Foundling Hos-
pital. All the charities in London were supported not by
the State, but by voluntary contributions.
Lord NAAS said St. Thomas's and St. Bartholomew's
were supported by lands regulated by the Crown at the
period of the Reformation.
_ _

Mr. WILLIAMS said these grants were from the
Church lands, the same as the estates of the nobility of
England.

Colonel DUNNE thought after the vast sums granted
for the National Gallery and other metropolitan institu-
tions, it was not justice to refuse a pittance to the misery
of Dublin.
Mr. BRIGHT said a good deal of this discussion was in
the dark, and he suggested that one or more committees
should be appointed at the opening of the next session to
examine into and revise the estimates. The miserable
explanations given from the Treasury bench were always
unsatisfactory.
Mr. VANCE said it would be desirable not to proceed
on these votes until the report of the committee was be-
fore the house. That committee was chiefly composed of
English members, and they had nearly unanimously come
to a decision to increase these grants, though the majority
were English members.
Mr. V. SCULLY could not see the groat advantage of
the Vaccine Establishment, when so much money was
spnationalnEsntgaluish tionosTehtls. The D
which
wereas o
fguebnleirn hospitals
albenefi were
ttothe
country. _ _ _

Lord J. RUSSELL, with regard to the suggestion of the
hon. member for Manchester, said that some years ago a
committee had reported on the miscellaneous estimates,
but until the report of the committee had been received on
this subject the Government could not propose any altera-
tion or increase in this particular estimate. He trusted
that the present vote would be agreed to.
Mr. BRIGHT said he had been on a committee on offi-
cial salaries with the noble lord, which made recommenda-
tions which would have effected a saving of 75,0001. a-
year, and yet the noble lord had not sought the change
recommended. (A laugh.) What he (Mr. Bright) desired
was, a committee which should revise the estimates annu-
ally, with functions something like those exercised by the
railway board.
Mr. V. SMITH deprecated the executive abandoning
their legitimate functions to any such committee. (Hear.)
He did not object to occasional committees which should
consider the general subject of reduction of the estimates.
He considered it a disgrace for Irish members to ask for
votes for Irish hospitals which in England and Scotland
were supported by voluntary contributions. (No, no.)
The Vaccine Establishment, to which allusion had been
made, was open to the people of the three countries, and '
he deprecated Ireland appealing in fore-ui pauperis in this
manner.

Mr. GROGAN contended that the evidence on which
the committee had recommended the reduction of these
grants was almost nil. Such was the feeling of the noble
earl, now Foreign Secretary, but formerly Lord Lieu-
tenant of Ireland, with regard to the importance of these
hospitals, that notwithstanding the report of the commit-
tee, he prevailed upon the Treasury to continue them on
the reduced scale. (Hear.)
The vote was then agreed to.
The votes, 11,859/. for the House of Industry ; 5001.,
Female Orphan House ; 1,215/., Westmoreland Lock Hos-
pital ; 500/., expenses of the Lying-in Hospital, and 7951.
for Dr. Steevens' Hospital ; 1,9001. for the House of Re-
covery of the Fever Hospital; also a vote of 2501. for the
Hospital of Incurables, were agreed to.
The CHAIRMAN reported progress, and the house
resumed.
The Poor Law Board Continuance Bill was read a third
time and passed.
The Union Charges Continuance Bill was read a third
time and passed.
The Indemnity Bill was read a third and passed.
The Insurance on Lives (Abatement of Income Tax)
Continuance Bill was read a third time and passed.
On the motion for the General Board of Health Bill
going through committee,
Mr. WYSE objected to the Speaker leaving the chair,
as he intended to move that tho bill be read that day six
months. If the house were desirous of going on with the
measure—as it was a matter of importance to his parishion-
ners (laughter)—he meant his fellow-parishioners (renewed
laughter)—he was prepared to go on with his objections.
(No, no.)

Sir W. MOLES WORTH would defer the bill till Thurs-
day, at 12 o'clock.
On the motion for the second reading of the Episcopal
and Capitular Estates Management Bill,
Mr. LIDDELL said ho had objections to the principles
of this bill, and hoped it would not be proceeded with.
Mr. A. PELLATT said he objected to the second read-
ing, and would oppose it at every stage. He begged to
move it be read that day six months.
The house were about to divide, when it was discovered
that there was no one but Mr. Pellatt against the bill, so
that there could be no teller. This fact being declared,
amidst great laughter, the division did not take place, and
the bill was read a second time.
TOWNS IMPROVENIENT (IRELAND) BILL.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL for Ireland moved the
third reading of this bill.
Lord NAAS said there must be some discussion on the
amended clauses, and it could hardly be taken to-night.
(Hear, hear.)
Sir J. YOUNG proposed taking the third reading then,
and. postponing the discussion until the question that the
bill do pass.
Mr. I. BUTT said this was scarcely possible.
The bill was postponed.

USURY LAWS REPEAL BILL.
On the order for the second reading of this bill,
Mr. CHRISTOPHER objected, in the absence of the
Chancellor of the Exchequer. (Hear, hear, and laughter.)
PUBLIC STATUES BILL.
The Lords' amendments to this bill were considered and
agreed to.

BRIBERY BILL.
This bill was postponed.
COMMON LAW PROCEDURE BILL.
This bill was postponed.
YOUTHFUL OFFENDERS BILL.
This bill was likewise postponed.
VACCINATION ACT AMENDMENT BILL

On the order for the second reading of this bill,
Mr. BRADY objected that the legislation on the subject
was extremely imperfect and unsatisfactory. He should
propose amendments accordingly.
Bill read a second time.
PUBLIC LIBRARIES ACT.
This bill was read a third timo sail passed.
BENEFICES AUGMENTATION BILL.
This bill was postponed.
MERCHANT SHIPPING BILL.

This bill was read a third time.
On the question that it pass,
'Mr. GEORGE said he hoped its operation would not be
postponed (as was now proposed) until August.
Mr. J. O'CONNELL particularly dwelt on the subject
of protection to deck passengers.
Mr. CARDWELL said there was especial provision for
deck passengers. As to the time of its coming into opera-
tion, the complexity of its details required some interval
for preparation.

SOvei•al verbal amendments having been agreed to, the
bill was passed.
The Lords' amendments to the Church Buildings Acts
Amendment Bill were considered, and agreed to.
The Linen, &c., Manufactures (Ireland) Bill and the
Turnpike Acts Continuance (Ireland) Bill were read a
third time, and passed.
The Lords' amendments to the Witnesses Bill were con-
sidered, and agreed to.
Mr. WILSON obtained leave to bring in a bill to con-
tinue an act of tho 12th year of the reign of her present
Majesty for amending tho laws relating to savings banks
in Ireland.
Mr. GROGAN obtained leave to bring in a bill for the
registration of bills of sale (Ireland).
Mr. FITZROY obtained leave to bring in a bill to au-
thorise the enclosure of certain lands, in pursuance of the
rlport of the Enclosure Commissioners for England and
abWlillALoalifwlo(rreNT..Bd.gcCoop.i:l2,l::ToEpLErLobitthaeined leave to bring in a bill to
former Po lkiNii
ivetea,m,r
B:E:if t 0:
is:
unTab :0, 3 manufactured a
novelni.piof aliecteuforofert
counties.
01%1:any\
t, various
er
si
to.
ou s
bringst an d ai rn :1
.sa.
re-
same consideration t said the noble lord withdrew his
presented towns.
the noblelord
would pay the
rural interest. If the noble
eblmembers who
represented the
pearlier:
AralllLEoNs-e,
consolidated Fund.
~, .
ought to be thrown on than Coo
the noble lord not to attempt to
lordsam (el efsoi root di n
g, to t
hpel
chargeplace th e
Sir J. PAKINGTON aho urged
at that late period of the session,Proceed with the measure
Mr. HENLEY having urged
postponement, and said
that no efficient police force could be established until the
rmEr.nigi:::nE hoped the deference
the t o those members who