The Sun.
London, England, 1853-06-24 00:00:00

1853.

n he question being put,

Mr. LOWE said he could not but express his apprehen-
sion that the latter part of the noble lord's speech had
tended to divert the attention of the home from the real
question before it. The question raise,' ou the second
reading of the bill was whether or not they were to deal
with the future government of India. The question raised

by the noble lord was the preliminary one of whether they
were to go into the question at all, and though he had no
doubt that the noble lord in introducing it acted in con-

formity with a sense of duty, yet he could not but think
that before the debate closed the house would have cause
to regret that he had done so. He feared that throughout
the debate they would be bandied about between the pre-
liminary question and the main question, and he thought
it most expedient that the house should keep to the issue
raised by the Government. (Hear, hear.) He had to
complain that the noble lord had not only introduced the
p4eliminary question, but after urging such arguments as
he thought fit iu favour of the amendment, had diverged
into others which were quite beside the question, which
was in substance what should be the form of the home

Government. The noble lord's amendment was somewhat

peculiar in its phraseology. The first part of it, according
to the noble lord's own admission, did not bear on the

question before the house at all ; and the second offered a
reason which seemed to him quite inadequate. The amend•

went was this -" That, in the opinion of this house, fur-
ther information is necessary to enable Parliament to legis-
late with advantage for the permanent government of
India." Now, what bad that to do with the question

before the house ? (Hear, hear.) The noble earl had told
them over and over again that they were legislating for the
provisional government of India, and he made that au ob-
jection to the measure. If that were the case, the first

clause of the amendment had nothing to do with the ques-
tion,lmmelaessusr.iet,
wasand wwihtyh itthweaysieinwseertef tildtiiheedcoueuiledg ntohte
for the Government was not proposing a permanent
topic, that there was not sufficient information. The latter
imagine,
popular
part of the amendment was equally.puzzling—" And that
at this late period of the session it is inexpedient to proceed
with a measure ;"—he should have supposed that the noble
lord was going to say " a measure of immense magnitude,"
that they wore going to have another allusion to a permanent
measure, but the words were—" to proceed with a mea-
sure which, while it disturbs existing arrangements, can-
not be considered as a final settlement. (Hear, 'hear.)
The " late period of the session" might be a very good rea-
son for not going into a measure of a permanent character,
but surely the fact that the measure was not of a perma-
nent character, that it did not aim at settling everything,
was a reason which told them otherwise. (Hear, hear.)
The first part of the resolution, therefore, appeared to him
not to apply to the bill at all ; while the second part af-
forded a reason for doing exactly the contrary of what the
noble lord wanted them to do. (Hear, hear.) But, pass-
ing that over, he would call the attention of the house to
the state of the case with regard to this measure. They
all knew that last year Parliamentary committees were
nominated by the late Government to investigate the sub-
ject of Indian government. The noble lord said it was not
the intention of the late Government, had they remained
in office, to legislate for India during the present session,
or, at all events, until the committees had made their re-
port. But, let the house observe that the late Government
did not let the committees separate until they had obtained
from them a quasi report, in which they stated that, so far
as the evidence had extended, their impression was favour-
able to the company • and looking at the circumstances of
the case, and especially considering the great convenience
of having a measure passed during the present session, he
was of opinion that, had the late Government remained in
office, they would have proposed during this "session a bill
for the renewal of the Indian Government. The noble
lord was, he submitted, now taking a course in opposition
which he would not have taken in office. The noble lord
said it was quite unprecedented that a measure of this kind
should be brought forward so late in the session. This
bill was introduced on the 9th of June. He had referred
to the books to see at what period the bills of 1813 and
1833 were introduced ; he found that the bill of 1813 was
introduced on the 16th of June, seven days later; and that
the bill of 1833 was introduced on the 15th of June, six
days later. (Hear, hear.) So that the present Govern-
ment would not suffer, by a comparison with their prede-
cessors, with regard to the period of proposing the renewal
of the charter. (Hear. hear.) In 1813, Parliament had
not only to d sal with the government of India, but with
the monopoly of the India trade ; while in 1833 it had to
settle the complicated question of the monopoly of the
China trade, and the terms on which the East India Com-
pany should cease to be a commercial company. (Hear,
hear.) Notwithstanding this, however, the present Go-
vernment were at least six or seven days more virtuous
than their predecessors. (Laughter.) The noble lord had
reminded the house that the India Bill of 1784 was before
the house for eight months. The circumstances of the case
were peculiar. The bill resulted, as was well known, in
the destruction of the Fox and North Ministry, and when
Mr. Pitt succeeded to -office the subject was again intro-
duced. He thought that so far as analogy was concerned
he had now disposed of the question. The noble lord said
the Reform Bill and the Ecclesiastical Titles Bill occupieil
a great deal of time. That was very true, and the reason
was perhaps a lamentable one. They knew that the
amount of time which was required to pass a bill through
Parliament depended on the degree of interest which it
excited among large masses of the English people, and the
manner in which they pressed members to take part in the
discussion. If he were required to prove how little in- .
terest comparatively this subject excited, it would be
enough to refer to the comparative thinness of the house
daring the delivery of the noble lords's own address. (Hear,
hear) The noble lord said there was ignorance and there
was indecision iu England upon this subject. That there
was a considerable amount of ignorance he 'Mr. Lowe) ad-
mitted ; bit it did not appear probable that if they waited
a year or two the ignorance which ex steel would have
been removed. (Hear, hear.) With rejard to the second
point, the alleged indecision, he must say that those who
had directed their attention to the subject were far from
appearing undecided. (Hear, hear.) Winatever might be
the difficulties, and he admitted that they •svere many and
various, of dealing with Indian affairs; the, question was
one upon which men who entered into the' subject at all
took up and pronounced the most decided opinions. The
noble lord said the house ought to have the opinions of
more of the civil servants from India. Whya they had
banqueted on such opinions to satiety. (Latglitt r.) They
had collectors, judges, civil officers of all kinds, who could
give them any it formation. On this point he _must re.
mark. that though gentlemen who had resided in rielia in
an official capacity, gave most admirable and accura;te in-
formation with regard to a particular district, the did
not appear to have troubled themselves much about the
rest of India. (Hear, hear.) Though it might be a p ara-
dox, he believed it to be true that for a general knowledge
of India as a whole—not of particular parts—they she uld
look rather to Engand than to India, rather to those who
had been placed at the head of Indian affairs than to those
who had been employed in administering the affairs of
particular districts. (Hear, hear.) The noble lord had
remarked that the East India Company was on its trial ;
that the committees had not yet reported, and that the
question ought not to be decided till they heel. He
omitted to state that the jury had interposed with A ver-
dict of acquittal. It was hardly to be expected that, after
doing that, they would turn round and declare that 'they
were wrong, and that they now wished to convict the
accused. The noble lord then went into a long argument
with regard to the present state of India, and declared
that he did not see any danger of agitation or insurrection.
He (Mr. Lowe) did not perceive any symptoms of insur-
rection ; but he thought it especially desirable that at the
present time the government of India should be as strong
and as much respected by the population as possible. He
would state very briefly his reasons for holding that
opinion. He saw the Eastern world, from one end of it
to the other, in a state of commotion, there being such a
movement ail over Asia as had not been witnessed for
centuries. If they looked to the western part of Asia,,
they would find a quarrel between Turkey and Russia..
Going a little further south, they found all Arabia per-
vaded by a fanatical spirit—Arabia, which had once con-
quered Asia, and was on the point of conquering Europe.
If they went to the north they found Bokhara in move-
ment. The empire of China, after being asleep for 200
years, was in a state of insurrection and rebellion ; the
result of which, in relation to Asiatic minds and to coter-
minous countries no one could predict ; and then, coming
southward, they found themselves engaged in a serious antt
apparently interminable war with the Burmese. (Ironical
cheers.) He confessed he should admire the patriotism of
hon. gentlemen more if they bad not cheered in that man-
ner. (Hear, hear.) Under these circumstances, he thought
it was the bounden duty of Parliament to endeavour to
make the Indian government respected. (Hear.) The
only reason which the noble lord assigned for a delay of
two or three years, was that Parliament had reason to
doubt whether the present government of India was a
good one. He (Mr. Lowe) would put it to the house
whether a state of suspense was likely to be favourable
either to the prestige of English power in India or to
the obedience and subordination of the civil servants

—(hear,hear)—whother, on the contrary, it was not.
likely to weaken their hold on India at a moment,
when it ought to be held with the firmest hand,
and exposing them to dangers of which no man could fore-
see the result. The noble lord might perhaps retort, that
the government had exposed themselves to that objection
by commencing the bill with the words, "Until Parliament
shall make further provision in that behalf." Let the
house observed the distinction between the two cases. By
putting off the matter for two or three years they would
be in reality prolonging the period of trial, inviting every
one who had anything to say against the form of govern-
ment to come forward, and at the same time expressing
a grave conviction that the system was not a good
one. (Hear, hear.) If the form of government wore
not good, let it be changed ; but to destroy a prestige
which had commenced with the time of Lord Clive, would
be extremely reprehensible. On the other hand, what the
government said was this—" We have made the best pro-
vision that our information and intelligence will enable us
to do for the government of India, but we are not wedded
to what we have done, and we are willing to listen to any
lciokmeptlhaieinrtsprwehdiecehessmorsay,
pbreompoasdeet.o"
tielnepfacthte,irthheany
ddsidf
for t,
yweaasrsiutlhleygrdoiwap nobtefoinretenattitetomplettipag to applynyhumour
when
sawerlel4ldlyit.
(Hear.) He could not help remarking, that the no-
tholeenletredrtcaaipmaeptyo
verydeal swithiron
gthoebbjecilltiioteneslfto, hiet.didosiniolt appear
to
asheaurtl_avthouour of
cheers.) He mentioned, indeed, one ortwo_pronoensta
objectionable ; but to the generaliscope of the. billf h
notht he eWhat he g
sl
double d.
government—(hear,Thenojle lord was
didpapripnecnairoptlteosobtfaet deo ol
opposed.
at he meant by i . (Mr.
oLpoewbeo)dmyekaoltabtyli(etoenobole trgool government `v wpass this,ibinty ,tthhaet vihg•oveerrheas.
went was carried ou in the name of another body. The
noble lord also made some minor objections, which did not
go to the principle of the bill. These were matter 4 for con-
sideration when they got the bill. Then as to the patron-
age, the noble lord should consider that much more of the
patronage was taken away than he had given ci slit for.
The admission toa,s,Atvfddpitiasteoreotruniagbeghetwas t• be open to public
about 90 appointments in the yearwto,aaatnaiilciar.etrhomereftehree the noble
competition, which would take away
Ipatronage,3
eri me, n
awwh why
to notth
nobleiord' s
lcalculationort sa id,
diaywrynpecart of the
istackoeunatnr; —" thßautto, thisf
openingwas agrea
publict
aepx:
pointments to competition ; and, seeing that the principle
it was to supersede had in practice worked well, it would
not be right to establish the new one completely, until
there had been taken some preliminary test of its efficacy.
That rub was speecially true as regarded the military ser-
vice. In the civil service the plineiple of competition could
not go wrong, but they often feu ul that the best soldiers
were men who had not particularly distinguished them-
selves at examinations in ()ally life. (Hear, hear.) As re-
garded the civilians, the noble lord's suggesVou with re-
gard to the children of officers mult probably be (adopted.