The Sun.
London, England, 1854-12-20 00:00:00

be faultless in
. e
taken care so to scout that idea, we are told so expressly makes an army invincible,
and ag tin I warn vou
that the consent of foreign sovereigns is to be obtained for drill, become valueless in t
unlit
Which yon cannot h.ave
the enlistment of their subjects, that I shall not argue that not to prefer the oneroqn,
foY;
that which you have at
point; for Ido not know at this moment any sovereign , now without going
hear.)
ad
hme etnelwdh,o maY
Hoping that my remarks ma not
who has benefitted by the partition of unfortunate Poland home.
(Rear'ear to the patriotic spirit of th hyouse
to whom you could apply with any hope of success for have been distastefulwa of amendraent to the nobh lord's'
permission to form a Polish legion, and to employ it in the I now move, by way
tll b read a second time this d •
t motion, that this i e ay six
war- against Russia. Let me, however, upon this pout ,
hs (Loud cheeers.)
offer a word of advice to the Government. Whatever is , mont .
KTON MILNES l d t •
Mr. MONC was g a obe able to avail
your present intention, seeing that the intentions of Mi-
thef opportunity to offer some remarks in reply
sisters are more liable to change than those of mere ordi- !himself of
le h h d • t •
ariae speech wic a jus excited so much admiration,
• • nary mortals—(a laugh)—if hereafter you should see the
ments which '
for- to argu were as sincerely offered as they
expediency of enlisting a battalion of Poles or other nn for-
were admirably delivered. (Hear, hear.) He beloved the
tanate patriots, I implore you to make up your minds be- I . .
inmple to be just in itself, because the whole of Europe
forehand what are to be the definite objects of this war. k
to was engaged in this contest, while the adoption of this
(Cheers.) As the war proceeds, if you see your way
the ,
bill would satisfy foreigners that the people of England
the restoration of Poland to her ancient rank among
' were not fighting. for_ any. selfish object, but for the liber-
free States of Europe, say so manfully. (Cheers.) There
ties of
barrier the world and the independenceof nations. (Cheers.e
are few in England who will not rejoice at such a
Barra
Mr. ADDERLEY
to Russian encroachments, and such a reparation for p _
crimes. In that case, the Poles would be more than lehveives
;that necessity
the of the present war ; he only questioned the fact
had arrived when it had become necessary
—they would be our allies. (Cheers.) But, if you i t f E l periodd -
t prepare, o , or ng an o resort to foreien mercenaries. He doubted
no idea of such an enterprise, if you are hot
lent our i too the lord's- • '
declare that one of the objects of the war is o p
beforey .. , cogency of the noble reason for proposing the
standards upon the citadel of -Warsaw, then pause i bill, viz., that it was always at the commencement of a war
l'olish'refugees, or excite ' that assistance was required by this country, though it b
you put arms into the hands of. .
(Hear, hear.) Now, i no means followed that the whole means of the country
the hopes of distressed nationalities.
e troo s elt e th
let us look at the number of these foreion p, to
exhausted in the first year of the war. He, however,
Wh it is e 't 1 The bill gives you power to enlist ' differed with the noble lord, while he thought prudenee
y,
10,000 men at a time ;
but as soon as you have drilled them dictated that we should make use of all our national
i
in this country, and de ;patched them to the seat of war, , resources that were pcssibly available at the vereefirst corn-
you have the power to enlist and drill another 10,003, and mencernent of war, otherwise the enemy would be apt to
so on, without limit. Now, suppose that you were to en- ; form an inadequate notion of our power. We were not
list a battalion of Poles, who, when peace was proclaimed, yet reduced to the necessity of havingrecourso to foreigners,
should still have no country, what would become of the and he wanted to know why the Government preferred
large number of armed men whom you would leave on the , hiring foreign mercenaries to using the national resources ?
surface Of Europe? Therefore, I say, for the sake of jus- : (Hoar.) Why should we have recourse to foreigners while
tics to Poland, for.. the honour of England, and for the j the British colonies were offering to reinforce the army in
cause of social order on the Continent, I implore you, the Crimea? They were assured the Colonial Secretary
• before you think hereafter of seeking the assistance of the other night that there was no intention whatever by
any distressed nationality, to consider well how far yon this bill to express distrust in the loyalty and attachment
will extend the definite objects of the war. (Hear, hear. of the colonies ; but surely, after the Canadian Parlia-
It, will be competent for gentlemen who succeed me to ex- ment had made an offer of its assistance, it was, to say
tend the discussion of this bill into a survey of the general the least of it, ungracious to accept this measure in prefe-
conduct of Ministers with respect to the war. I have no rence to their offer. (Hear.) He was assured upon excel-
such intention. I have no wish to reiterate former charges lent authority that a letter had recently been received from
nor to bring into adroit display every casual error of negli- a Canadian gentleman, stating his readiness, in conjunc-
genes that may have occurred. (Hear, hear.) I can' as- tion with other gentlemen, not only to raise a Canadian
sure the Secretary.et.-war that the other night I heard regiment, but to maintain that regiment during the time
his eloquent speech with great pleasure, and pleasure more it served with the British army. (Hear.) hile Eiuch
honourable to both of us than mere admiration, for I did offers as these were being made, coming as they did ftom
think that he satisfactorily disproved many charges that Canada, which could furnish the beat troops in the world,
had been brought against his own department, not, in- did it not convey a feeling of distrust to reject thene in
deed, by any gentleman in this house, but which had ere- favour of German mercenaries? It seemed to him to be a
• • • tof doors. (Hear, hear.) downright insult to the colony ; and being offered at this
ated a painful impression out
With regard to the Cabinet itself, I cheerfully recognise time, when the connection between the mother coutitry
men who have won that high name in the public service and the colony appeared to be mast healthy and firm, was
of this country which gives them a deep interest in its exceedingly unfortunate. Why should we prefer the
honour and prosperity. Ido not know that there is one assistance of foreigners to that of our own blood and kin,
man in the Cabinet, or in all the Government, of whom I whether in the colonies or at home? The other day the
should wish to speak in other terms than those of personal noble lord the President of the Council recommended the
respect ; but it is not a discordant combination of able members of the Mechanics' Institute to study the decline
men that makes the most worthy Cabinet in times of and fall of nations, and remarked that it would be found
peace, while the spirited conduct of war requires a promp- a sure sign of the decline of a nation when it became ntime-
titude and decision, a rapid and comprehensive foresight, rically inferior to the nations with which it was allied.
which can only come from a fixed unity of purpose. and Now, if the noble lord was correct in that view, as no
object. -That unity the conflicting spirit of Ministers has doubt he was, it would almost seem from this ; bill
notoriously belied. Take the last instance. Compare the that England was in the decline ; but he denied that
senguinetone which the treaty with Austria created else- she was numerically inferior to her allies. The nation
where with the language and cautious scepticism as to its had ample resources within itself, and in the pattiot-
important results expressed by the organ of the Govern. ism of its colonies, to furnish its army with plenty of re-
merit in this house. (Hear.) On a recent occasion the cruits without having recourse to a measure of this chttrac-
First Ministerof the Crown assumed that the Government ter. The colonies being enfranchised from political; dis-
hed been blamed for their reluctance in going to war, as abilities, had begun to feel a warmer attachment towards
exhibited by the pre•dminary negotiations. That is not the the mother country, and it would be the height of folly to
fact. The Government was not blamed for their reluctance weaken that feeling, by rejecting their offers of assistance
' to go to war ; but what we regretted was this, that the in the present war; rather let them encourage it I now
state of public opinion in this country, which so deeply re- when they could do BO with so much advantage to our
sented the first disguised aggression upon Turkish idle- , nationality, or a golden opportunity for still further
pendence, had never fairly been represented to the Russian cementing the colonies to the British Throne would be lost
Emperor; and we stated that if the language used by pur to us for ever. (Hear.) What troops could we havebetter
Minister at the first, without being at all more threatening, than our own, or better than the Canadian Rifles—the
had been much more frank and plainspoken, you would first volunteer force in the world, to whom we owe the
have had a better chance of preserving peace than you possession of Canada at this moment. (Hear.) The noble
could have bycomplimenting the Czar upon his moderation lord had attempted to make them believe that there•wete
and fairness, after he had secretly proposed the subdivision precedents for this measure, and that if they rejected this
of the Turkish dominions, and after he had deceived your bill, it would be a deviation from the teachings of history
credulity by misrepresenting great military preparations as but, in point of fact, there was not the least appositeness
an innocent mode of moral aggression. (Cheers and laugh- in the two cases which the noble lord had quoted; the
ter.) In prosecuting your negotiations with Austria, I most apposite of the two, perhaps, was that ofp ; S ain but
entreat you to avoid the spirit which pervaded your nego- did the noble lord think England was reduced to the same
tiations with Russia. You have here an opportunity of state as Spain when she called in the assistance of the
the most complete success. You have only to consider the British Legion ? Were the colonies of England in the•same
spirit of your former negotiations, and to conduct your- position as those of Spain ? Certainly not ; and it would
selves in a spirit diametrically opposite. (A laugh.) We be most humiliating to the country, and crushing to her
never blamed the Government for not going to war until feelings of self-reliance, if the Ministers on this occasion
all parties were prepared for it ; but what we wonder at is were allowed to accept the services of foreign mercenaries
this, that the only persons in the three kingdoms who in preference to the noble offers of the colonies. (Hear,
were unprepared for tee war were her Majesty's Minis- hear.) Such a measure as this could be only justifiable in
ten; and so unprepared were they that the best excuse for the most urgent ease of necessity ; no such case had been
all of them is that they commenced a war which they now made out, and therefore, without trespassing longer upon
find to be protracted, and with a most formidable enemy, the house, he thought he had said quite enough to justify
with military preparations little raised above the ordinary his voting for the amendment. (Hear, hear.)
establishments of peace, and upon the niggardly principle Mr. WATSON- would support this and every other pro-
that its cost should be defrayed out of our ordinary re- position which was calculated to carry on the war with
venue. (Hear, hear.) The public were disposed to receive efficiency. ,
your tardy assumption of energy at the commencement of Mr. E. BALL, as an opponent of the war, opposed this
winter as a partial indemnity for at least your compare- bill, which he thought would only add . • •to the calamities of
tire indolence during the previous months of summer and the war.
autumn ; but who could foresee that one of the gigantic Mr. 11. GIBSON said the noble lord (Lord J. Russell)
. efforts of your collective patriotism, reserved very - made a important
announcement at the commence-
'Prise so pressing and prodigious that it is the main reason vent of
his speech, and which was to the effect that, if this
. - why we are summoned together, although there was not abill were defeated, the Government would feel it necessary
wore *hoot- it in the -s each from, the
'eta ,________ o Jr.
_Throne would be to resign their offices. After tleat announcerne t the
loan`,Z,",,,;l6r7:NrettpeiTeorria Ot 10,000 foreigner's? question before the home must ►be—approached with:lcons'
Isere all ins mentarei aeneeemblea in haste, in derable difficulty by hon. gentlemen, and he (Mr. Gibson)
' e . the troops are so numerous tis.J.3llaeerainister took upon himself to protest against that system of over-
et to do with them. Another -ui,i,te. does
not awing
7.7,7g,the deliberate sentiments of the house by telling
eeild have a million, nil' .lied we are waiting ' tiv..t_iie,:lweLad., upon a few hours' notice); make
ett ‘--" te'Oef... ilelieter, out comes this ridicu- tire measure—the Govorun.
that, too, upon an importantlegisla-
aLa this creeping. this crawling proposi- liberty to retire from office. He coulr fatietintWa-t
vine third-rate power for the loan of 1.0,0ee why resignation was to be the consequence of the defeat of
ers and laughter.) It reminds me of the story this bill. (Hear, hear.) Had not hon. members seen in
turer who was boasting
oto an acquaintance he the course of last session how measures of domestic policy
ip in a coffee-house of the enormous wealth he involving great principles were defeated, although intro-
distance. Ho spoke of his castles in Corn- duced by the Government, and how that Government did
_shire, of his copper mines in one coun try not think that those defeats rendered necessary their retire-
eamond mines in Peru, and when he had ment from office? He maintained, then, that it was not
:is friend to the highest pitch of expectation as fair, upon a measure of this character (which was, after
might reasonably expect from the munificence all, but a minor proposition with reference to the proposals
•••- of such boundless resources, he suddenly that had been made for the carrying on of the war), for
e.wl. upon his breeches pocket and said, " I the Government to threaten that its rejection would cause
'Lose
nice there at at the bar, have you such a a break up of the Ministry. Whichever way he should
esent you as 10i.l. !" (Great laughter.) Well, vote upon this measure—(laughter)—he should vote • with
repeat there is no parallel case or precedent for this reference to its merits and his own conscientious convic-
- e 1 will presently show; but let me call the attention tions, and not to the threat of the Gov r e nment, for he felt
souse in the first instance to an opinion given upon that it involved a ri ciple of far more importance than
Abject by a great man, which must have this highest. the resignation or nl3on-nresignati • '
on of the Cabinet.
at and authority with gentlemen opposite. I will What was the measure before the house? Byi
t they were
a what was said on a similar occasion to this by Mr. invited to enable her Majesty to enlist foreigners
gners in the
.ray, afterwards Lord Grey. (Hear, hear.) That great British army, to fight the battles of this country, . . and to
Man once said, " I cannot doubt that occasions may arise become the enemies of Russia. He wished to know whe-
whenw
it would be proper to introduce foreign troops into ther it was consistent with a sound view of public la
this country, but it should never be done except in cases that Parliament should make provisions enabling the Ca-
of extreme necessity, and never should bo suffered to be binet to communicate with the subjects of some neutral
clone without being watched with that constitutional State? Ought, not Governments to communicate with
jealousy which is the best part of the character of this Governments? He appealed to any hon. member in that
house, and the best security of the rights and liberties of house to say whether or not it was sound policy to se pa-
the people. " Now, I appeal to the candour of the majority rate peoples from t• • S • P'
their Sovereigns, and to give power to
of gentlemen opposite, if these words of Mr. Grey do not her Majesty to communicate with the individual sub-
' at least justify us in the jealousy with which we regard this Sects of neutral States • without,?"- all recognising the
bill— anti whether we are right or wrong in that jealousy,Governments le
of those States 9es ogoerlear, hear, hear.)
or whether it is , ' overstrained or not, I appeal to them to What would be our feelings if rfforelgn state should at-
say if it does not amply vindicate us from the unworthy tempt to enlist men from England without the consent of
charge that we aro obstructing the necessary preparations the Queen? It was not consistent • with sound principles
of the war. Mr. Grey went oe 'o " Fur the
say, purpose for our Government to attempt to enlist men from foreign
of our own defence wemust ' sometimes employ foreign States without the consent of their Sovereigns or Govern-
troops ; but still I cannot help thinking that the
wisest
monts, and at a time when they were at peace with that
course for us to pursue is to rely the courage and power with which we were at war. And yet it appeared
He
Where is your to etirn that that was the very policy of this bill. Not a
case of urgent or proved necessity for'tgismasure ? Why word was said about any treaty having been entered into
it has not been urged as a case of necessity,
ble lord said not a word about these forii because the no- with any foreign Government. Not a syllable was said
gn troops being about any alliance, or any understanding, but simply that,
required for the safety of the nation. (ilear, hear.) No, by this bill, her Majesty would be empowered to go by
sir, he was too much of an Englishman for that, and u means of her recruiting officers to foreign countries—to the
only urged it at the most as a question of convenience. Tillie territories of neutral States—and to raise forces there for
• bill is required for the convenience of drilling the troops in the purpose of being engaged in the war with Russia.
this country. Well, then, it being a mere question of
_Either that was going to be done with the consent of those
convenience, I say the convenience is not worth the pur- neutral States,
io r was going to b© done without their con-
chase. It has not been unseasonably asked elsewhere, sent or knowl e( ge. Ifit were to be clone with their con-
how will the enemy regard this proposition? (Cheers.) sent, then they forfeited
What a pretext you give to the Emperor of Russia to re- prepared
toexercise that
theirhel neutrality. As they were
present to his subjects the correctness of the estimate which they must also be prepared toligderent right against Russia,
he had, formed of the power of the British people. Olean But, if they were so prepared,leetclzeo war against Russia.
hear.) Well may he now refer to the braggart talk of the the face of Europe. (Cheers.) Let t'i(:eo it openly, and in
leuter into au
House of Parliament—their boast of the popular enthn- alliance with this country, and send aem-
siasm—their willingness that the best blood of the nation their contingents in support of the common.' ciaarYs forces
as)
should be spilt in the struggle; well, I say, may lie refer. That course would be straightforward, and conasiest.e( t e 'r.
• to all theseethings, and compare all this talk with the sine. the public law of Europe. But, if it were to be done withoutnvith
plc fact that in the first year of the war we are compelln l the consent of these States or against their wishes, then the
t-) go somewhere else for the loan of 10,000 bayonets. And British Parliament ought not deliberatelyto sanction
uponnt what pretence do they seek this assistance ?ho will such course of public policy. (Hear.) The Governments
a urally ask. Why, he will say, by their own confession of Switzerland and of other countries had pissed laws to
besauee they are not a military nation, and have' prevent the system of carrying on wars by means of mer-
timenot had
since the commencement of the war' to drill canaries. The noble lord(Lord J. •
a suffi- cane . Russell) might quote
dent numbei of recruits for that army which at the battle to the house precedents of past times—he might go
back
of Inkertaten could only muster 8,000 men. •
(Hear hear.) to the middle ages—he might quote to them the precedent
Sir, I, as an Englishman, am not trinity,. thatthe
should stand thus before the emeth , s enemy. (Cheers.) tomahawks; but, irthe present war was to be carried on
Still less am I wilding to seliam before the eyes of our as war had t-ten; carried on by the nations of Europe
ally—(sheers)—while'l do not think it is the best mode to in recent Ii• • the plug proposed by this bill could
remove the timid hesitation of Austria and Prussia. not be adopted by the house,
(Cheers. lam convinced, in spite of all your omissions, iu in on warbbecause the system of carry
spite of all your delay, that we have men still sufficient ai downedg by the
meansoieof mercenaries had been utterly
mu-
thiscon-
moment to fight our own wet
(Cheers.) you tell
nicipal
(Cheers.)sTh course
_ of public treaties and of
law, lt might be contended that every •
its that you sent ample reinforcements to the Crimea a foreign Power might allow this •
' ' week, nay, a month, ago ; and I say you have had plenty jeans to make war upon Russia, and yet
neu-
of time and means since for preparing and raising and dill- trality ; but that, he submitted, Wamaintainci its
angerous princt-
ling more. I say you have had an ample field for raising pie to lay down, for it would justify a
the Government of
a sufficient number of troops in the over-crowded popula- the United States in permitting Russia to hi
tion of the country. (Hear.) I deny altogether the idea that to fight against us in the present contest. ( e rind cries of
if you draft off in that way the labouring population of the hear, hear.) He had heard it said that a country might
rural districts you will disturb the operations of agricul- lend its troops to carry on a war in another country
with-
ture, because the suspension of the ordinary industrial oc- out forfeiting its neutrality, if there wereexistingcupations of the •if labouring classes, especially in railway treaty or understanding to that effect Batseethat
.we were
works, caused by the war, has released a large number of the case, ho wished to know with what country had a
the most able-bodied portion of our population. I believe, treaty of that nature? A little diligence would
, soon
moreover, you might employ to advantage in your army able the Government to inform him what was the nameeno-f
the large number of marines stationed at Chatham and that country, and he hoped that the Government
would
ether places. Try every other means before you resort to a tell bins in what country it was that we were enabled
on Irsci to
bill like this ; and if I were to presume to offer you advice, enlist men for the purpose of carryingthe war with
I Would say to you, "Go into the best market for your re- Russia ? (Hear, hear.) He believed that thus . bill would
(hiettswhere bark.this country incourse of •
noe . e you can get spirit and strength." That mar- em a policy moat dangerous
Zeiriere at home. Go there, then, and get the best ma- to its future interests, and calculated to multiply wars be.
lone son can, at any cost—it will be the cheapest in the pond all bounds. (Hear.) If this country, by enlistment
„rheum.. (Cheers.) Sir, I remember in the year 1779, of men the subjects of foreign States, should involve those
hostile elii;
rts of France and Spain were bristling with States in war with Russia, it would' devolve upon this
Channel witilaind American privateers were cruisingin our country to aid those States against Russia. (Hear.) Ho
sentatives of Imeel'auaettee, Lord Hertford offered the repre- believed that two great countries like-England and France,
e nemy of makewageradescent upon their coast- -What war with Russia without having recourse to the dangerous
refusal. (Cheers.) met4thZas a manly and independent course proposed by this bill, namely, the employment of a
potent to -defend ourselves without
f3owe are not perfectly com- diminutive ' supply of mercenaries. (Loud cheers.) In
worthy of being defended at
nil. t foreign aid, we are not conclusion, the right hon, gentleman said he would vote
Came there presentatives of Ireland,Sir. if that answer be- against the second reading of the bill, to which he would
the unitßuret it
unbecoming ed Parliament of the would not be offer every opposition in his power.
Let me ask you tow eet__
o_entire_ kingdom. Mr. J. G. PHILLIMORE also opposed the bill as in-
(Cheers.)
at the armaments of Russia,
an Lore
with
eirse who (lashed volving a calamity and a degradation to this country.
and intrepidity the sufferings and calani.
_osequal fortitude Mr. SIDNEY HE RBE EtT said—Sir, in the speech
the nri 0 •tne3 how iti of disease ant we have just heard from the hon. gentleman the member
the fatigues of 'then, the
many of those were new for Manchester (Mr. M. Gibson) he complained that her
recruits'.' (Cheers.) Why, material of le
British army in the Crimes consiste es still towich the Majesty's Government, in the speech 'of my noble friend
of this country • be found the Lord President of the Council, acting as the mouth-
amongst the labourers
,i
~.. and these are thepiece
men ,you should look to for yi) rre sii eite men \l4lO like of Government, had assumed a tone which
their brothers an fellows in the Crimea, weeei e 5 was not justifiable, inasmuch as he had attempted by
le ee threats decision
patient of their own eefferines as they were hereetTe •to (h of resignation to force this house into a
the wounded. (Loud cheers.) That. is the kimi of ma. I ear)—contrary to his own opinion and conviction. Sir,
terial your army is, and should centinue to be,
wile of e ina,ieirtvire of those who hold at a high value the rights of
You may, draw troops from GeIIUfLIIY, from Switzerlane, in this individual members of Pailia.ment. I hold that every man
from Sweden, from Poland, when the absolute neceseity exert etre has a perfect right to act in every case on his
opinion of its '
for it come-, but I say this is not the moment when you firence to any 1 ....tits, if ho so chooses, without re-
ought to set aside our own willing and able-bodied; stout- in the merit ;efatteeri°r consequence. I have that confidence
hearted countrymen, in order to arm foreigners for our forward, that I ask and
which I am about to bring
• • they will accomplish her of this house, nd challenge for it, from every mom
defence. (Cheers.) Depend upon it,
i soldiers, who merits,
e, more for you than whole hosts of foreign
''`iers have been reluctantly trained to arms under the sway of likewise true math:, six 1)7 yof the case. But it is
e 5..., 4,. p.,, The foreigner may to take whatever course heya' • y which consists of men free
~
e, eee—e_n__etasePotic constitutions. (Hear, hear.) t f t' not be like upon •
any question, there
--: -ee lea well disciplined, his training may have been per ee lenv must an exeePtion still le
- - ,o-e, Int he will stilt lack that strength in his own right arm Ito be her Majesty's Gove ' ss that this exception is
• e •-- has-always been the ehafactoristio- of the British •to fir o. .
ea 4_ - 4 e
...1...14.w.that poli rnment —none must be c
cY whiAbetheX thiult eital to thoempelled
•• -....• ntiftire-r. (Cheers.) Without that feeling which alone interest, and 139120 D 14114 )10 compelled to d._ . public
0 that Whach they
~.
~..

know to be fatal to the public interest, because other gen-
tlemen choose to take a different view of what is or is not
for the public interest. Now let me attempt to discuss
this measure in perf,ct fairness. I do not mean to insinuate
against any gentleman who differs from Government that
his motives are factious or hostile to Government, even if
they appear to me to be founded on prejudice or misrepre-
sentation of the measure. I think that there is both in
the House of Commons and in the country a desire honestly
`0 give the utmost effect to the war which her Majesty's
Government are now carrying on. Well, I think that I
may make every allowance for differences of opinion, but
I ask you to listen to the arguments which I shall lay
before you, and which seem to me to be conclusive, first,
as to the danger which it' is supposed will threaten the
constitution ; and, secondly, as to the danger which it
is supposed will threaten the British army from the ad-
mixture of foreign troops. Sic, with respect to the
danger which it is supposed will threaten our social state
if we seek for aid in the prosecution of the war--which
is not an English war, but eminently a European war
(hear, hear)—the hon. baronet who moved that this bill
be read a second time this day six months made great use
of some arguments with reference to the precedents which
exist for a bill of this kind. I will not delay the house by
going into this subject at length. The precedents which
were adduced by my noble friend who moved the second
reading of the bill were not, he said, instances in which
we were engaged in treaties offensive and defensive, but
were mere pretences. Now, sir, as far as this question is
concerned, I want to know if ever there was a case in the
world in which a European quarrel was entered into which
could not by common consent be called a German quarrel
also ? Do you mean to lay down this principle—that if the
law of nations be broken through —if some great and vio-
lent injustice be committed by a strong state upon a
weaker one, are nations like France and England, who pro-
fess to be the leaders in civilisation, who profess to be in a
great degree the arbitrators of the conduct of other nations—
are they to abdicate their high functions—are they to say
that injustice may be committed, that power and might are
to make such inroads over Europe, so that at last, when it
comes to their turn, they will find themselves unable to re-
sist it? (Hear.) I tell you that throughout Germany you
have sympathy with you in the war, and is this sympathy
of Germany to pass awayand bear no fruit whatever. Hon.
gentlemen say that "you have no instance of raising an army
in countries not in strict alliance with you. You may go to
Hanover, for Hanover is Hampshire. Yon may go to Prus-
sia, because Prussia is in alliance with you." These, how-
ever, are not all the precedents. Ia 1813 an act of Parlia-
ment was passed which appears to me not to be so chary of al-
liances. It appears to me that it is thought right at the end
of s war, and not at the beginning of a war no atone should
be left unturned ; but what happened in 1813 ? An act was
passed to enable his Majesty to do what ? If we had come
to the house and said—if we had come to Parliament and
proposed to introduce foreigners into English regiments,
I must say that in my opinion such a proceeding would
have been unwise ; bat do you think we have not prece-
dents for asking men to come and serve in our regi-
ments which former Governments have not introduced ?
What do yon think of the act of 1813 ? We proposed to
raise the 60th Regiment to ten battalions ; the Bth, 9th and
10th battalions were to be added to the 60th Regiment ;
and orders were issued to the officers not to recruit the
battalions in Russia or in Prussia, but to recruit them
from foreigners generally, and to get foreigners from any
country they could. You wanted precedents—you have
got precedents—but I confess that if you have no prece-
dents to go upon, where you see a menacing and crying
necessity, I say do not let us stand upon mere precedents,
but exercise what is far better—our own common sense.
If you see the means of getting assistance and have the op-
portunity of getting ready trained troops, I say, in God's
name do it, and do not talk about precedents. (Hear.)
The hon. gentleman who has just sat down has asked what
magic is theme in being a German or a Swiss which the
English recruit does not possess? I say that this is the
magic. I say that the English recruit makes the best
soldier in the world, and, instead of being made in five
months, has been made in three months. You can make
a soldier in three months, but can you convert a boy into
a man in three months? (Hear.) Honourable gentlemen
ought to have read the letters of the greatest military
commander that the world ever saw—l mean the Emperor
Napoleon, that great master of organisation. You will
find him saying, when he wanted reinforcements in conse-
quence of the immense consumption of men—you will find
that he wrote constantly, and said, " Pick me out older
men ; do not send me boys who consume my rations, im-
pede my marches, and encumber ray hospitals." (Hear,
hear.) I think that you have had experience of this.
(Hear, hear.) I will state one fact. We have com•
milted errors in sending out reinforcements. The house
will feel that in operations of this description after
a long peace our armies may be exhausted. Now, the
great mass of the recruits which come in are, comparatively
speaking boys. The youngest age is 18, and the greatest
difficulty 'is felt in preventing them from passing them-
selves as 18, when they are much less, so that the greatest
mass of recruits come in at the earliest age. Is this the best
ago for soldiers ? Young men in the higher ranks of life,
who have been well-fed and well-lodged, are much more
advanced towards the strength of a man-than lads taken
from the plough, who have had scanty supplies of food and
meat not more than once or twice a week. What is the
consequence of this ? Ween they are put into rations for
a short time you find them to be growing lads. You say
that in 1803 or 1804, when the war broke out—what did
you do in 1804? For the first five years you acted on the
defensive. So long as the army is kept at home well-
quartered and well-fed, so long as it is kept in such a posi-
tion as this youth does not tell against it ; but at the first
d
exposure to hardship and privation the constitution of
young lads are not strong enough to bear up against them.
consumed,
reinforcements,
,eeerTn7thtohenen
re,nd constant
to
ytua.armarches
oheyes
ailaire,jumer exposure
azdt the
re-
cognise the truth which the Emperor Napoleon uttered,
vriacalrasassie 'vela"! he was talking about "I say you
make a soldier in three mouths, but can you convert a boya
into a man in three months?" I have stated withent re-
serve the difficulty under which we labour. It is asked,
what is the magic by which the German is excepted from
this difficulty ? I think I can easily explain that matter.
In Germany all the peasantry are subject to military con-
scription or military service in some shape or other. Mili-
tary service expires, generally speaking—l am not allud-
ing to any state in particular, but in most German states
military service expires when the peasant has approached
the ago of 26 or '27. The German Governments will not
give the peasant permission to emigrate until he has com•
pleted the period of his military service, and he therefore
o trinot leave the country until he is 26 or 27 years of age.
We have German emigrants passing through England to
the United States, to Canada, and to Australia, to the
amount of 30,000 souls every year. Throughout Germany
provisions are high, and there are in those states something
like the feeling which exists in Ireland of thededre to emi-
grate to another hemisphere. The amount of emigration
to the English colonies is very great. It would be greater
bat for this circumstance, that as they are persons of small
property, and possess limited funds, they are obliged to
take by preference that passage which costs them the least.
Therefore the great mass of emigrants have gone to Canada
or the United States, but if they had the means I have no
doubt they would have gone to Australia in preference.
Again, you should recollect this circumstance. The Ger-
mau Government gives the peasants permission to emigrate
as soon as they have satisfied the Government that they
have performed their military services. That gives a power
of denaturalisation. In England we have no such power.
Some hon. gentlemen have said they do not know what
number the Government can get, or where they can get
them. Never was anything more truly said. I think the
Government must be endowed with wonderful powers of
prophecy, if they can tell how a measure will work when
it is necessary to obtain the sanction of Parliament to that
measure before they can put the proposition in any shape
before the parties to whom it will be necessary to apply.
(Hear.) It is obvious that the Government cannot pretend
to say how many men they will get, or where they will
get them from. We may have reasons for forming au
opinion on this subject from the statements which have
been made to us by persons who have been accustomed to
deal with Germans ; but we cannot pretend to say that we
are going to take 30,000 men, 35,000 men, or any other
number of men. (Hear.) The number, of course, is left
very much to the option of honourable gentlemen opposite.
The hon. baronet opposite took the case in both ways. He
spoke of 10,000 men as something so insignificant as not to
be worth mentioning ; but when he thought the objection
would be altogether fatal, he magnified the number into
30,_00 or 40,00, and said that the worst part of the mea-
sure was that there was no limit. (Hear, hear.) There
certainly is no limit in one sense. But there is a Parlia-
mentary limit. I apprehend that year by year the esti-
mates must be submitted to the house, and they must con-
tain the maximum number of men, which the Govern-
ment will have no power to exceed. (Cheers.) The- Par-
liamentary limit is therefore in your hands. There is
no other limit, except that of the willingness of the
parties to come. What we ask you to do is to try the
measure. We think if it succeeds that it will be of the
utmost value. We tell you we can
get recruits faster
than we can train them and make them soldiers, and I
hope we shall continue to do so. (Cheers.) But this I know
that if we have the means to enable us to spare these men
until they are fit for service, we should make soldiers of
them not merely to meet the enemy the first few days after
their arrival, and behave as our recruits did at Alma and
Inkerrean, but we should have men who would be able,
besides fighting a battle, to undergo all the hardships and
privations which they may have to endure before meeting
with the enemy a second time. (Cheers). When you pro-
duce a recruit able to meet the enemy in battle, you have
not made a soldier of him • and what you have to do is, to
overcome the difficulties Which I have mentioned. I say,
any Government, knowing the nature of these recruits,
and knowing their extreme youth, knowing the risk to
which they are exposed, knowing the certainty of their
being laid up by fever or dysentery, inconsequence of their
inability to stand the fatigue and the change of climate—l
say that if any Government, knowing these facts, should,
in order to meet the prejudice or a vote of the House of
Commons, neglect the moans which they may have in their
hands for providing at xiliary forces, whose services may
give our men time to recruit themselves, that Government
would be highly culpable. (Loud cheers.) Well, are we
degrading our army by sending out foreigners to combine
with them in these operations ? I can imagine the feeling
entertained towards men who would fight for either Eng-
land or Russia, and I wish the hon. and learned gentleman
would make himself the agent of the Emperor of Russia,
and try his eloquence in Germany for a few days.
(Laughter.) Do you think that the men of Germany will
come to our standard for the sake of nothing but a shilling
a-day ? They will not come to those who pay the most.
There exists throughout Germany a great sympathy with
the Western Powers. (Cheers.) Arc you going to deny
to other countries all share of honest feeling against unjust
encroachment ? Do you suppose you have tho monopoly
of that feeling ? Would our army be degraded by having
such men fighting by its side ? Did our army feel de-
graded when the troops of Germany fought along with
them ? No, you may say, because these states were in
alliance with us. But do you suppose that the privates
in our ranks entered much into the consideration of di-
plomatic relations I Do you suppose that Sir Colin Hal-
kett, who is now at Chelsea in comfortable retirement,
felt degraded. when he was identified with those men
who under the greatest difficulties rendered him such es-
sential services? (Cheers.) I cannot read the debates of
1801 without seeing that the identical arguments were then
produced which are now used, and without a feeling of hu-
miliation that those arguments have not Lunde one atom in
:olvance. The hon. baronet says we were in alliance with
Germany. But the army then raised was the most motley
army that over was seen, and was composed of very many
nations. (Hear.) But, it is said, you are letting these m
supersede English soldiers. Now, if you will show me an
army of English soldiers consisting of seasoned menaly_h
will" adoh
clangors of a campaign in a pestilential country, t ime
you may safely send to a foreign clime to undergo 11 t
wdt
ad-
mit there is something in your argument. Bat yout
attempt to do that. *hen you talk of superseding he
tish soldier by the German, you assume that the English
soldier is a man of years sufficient toe insure the stamina of
his constitution, and you. assume the Gerinan to be a -mere
boy... But_ Lhavet wn you, and I hope satisfactorily,

that that is en error—that the English recruit is a boy-
that the difficulty is not to make him a soldier but to con-
vert him into a man—and that the German is not a boy, but
a soldier and a man. (Cheers.) I have no doubt that in
the course of a few years you might raise up a great army.
You might de so if you were to stand on the defensive for
four or five years. But we want to operate before that
time. (Cheers.) Are you prepared to wait until these lads
have become men ? We want to do that now which you
wish to have done when it may be too late. That is what
we propose to do by this bill. (Cheers.) I do not pretend to
say what number of men will come to our assistance ; but
we shall he culpable if we neglect the opportunity of get-
ting every man we can. (Cheers.) The right honourable
gentleman says you have no right to complain, because you
have got as your ally the most powerful military nation in
Europe, and therefore you need not make any great effort
to secure men to be produced at the shortest notice.
France, as the right honourable gentleman justly says, is a
very powerful military nation, but it is not the most power-
ful military nation in point of numbers, because, as far ae
numbers are concerned, Russia is the most powerful state
1 in Christendom. But you must take into consideration not
merely numbers. W. will take the French army at 400,000
non. But does France consider a foreign legion such an
annecessary thing ? Does France acknowledge the supe-
riority of Russia, and hero-,vn weakness, in admitting foreign
legions into her service ? France from the earliest days has
been in the habit of employing foreign troops, and in the
days of Turenne she employed Irish, Scotch, and Swiss
regiments. France has now in her pay a legion composed
of foreigners as an auxiliary to her troops. The right hon.
eentleman spoke of the march of civilisation, but I confess
that my views of the march of civilisation are not com-
patible with the system that is proposed, of neglecting the
means of effectually carrying out our views against that
Hower which does its utmost to prevent the march of civi-
lisation. I ask those hon, members who consider that we
can raise any number of troops, and render them effec-
tive in a moment, to answer me this question—What is the
number of British troops, be they 150,000 or 200,000, or
be they more, which would not be stronger or better for
the addition of 50,000, 40,000, or 30,000 foreign troops ?
(Cheers.) Success in war, after all, is in a great degree,
after skill is considered, a question of numbers, and
therefore, if you wish for success in this war, you
must not neglect any means at your disposal to
swell your battalions against the troops of Russise(Cheers )
Some persons say you have got the Turks at your disposal.
I know we have, and they are troops who fight extremely
I well under certain circumstances. The Turks fought very
I gallantly at Silistria.' (Cheers.) I wish those gentlemen
who talk of the use of mercenaries to recollect how many
mercenaries, and German mercenaries, are engaged in.. the
present contest. Who was it that organised the army of
Silistria ? A Prussian officer. Who organized the whole
Turkish artillery force ? Prussian officers. What has
become of them l' Have their Governments recalled them
to their servile, ? Not at all. Who is Omer Pacha himielf ?
Omer Pacha is of Austrian extraction. (Oh, oh.) Ho cer-
tainly is not a Turk. In the Russian army there are many
German officers. I mention these facts to show that we
are not introducing a new system, but acting upon one
which is in existence at this very moment. But you
ask, how do these Turks behave ? What is said of the
Turkish army ? It is said of the Turkish army that
it is an army which fights very well behind walls. Now,
what is the meaning of the expression, " fighting well be-
hind walls ?" Why, it is a cautious method of saying that
it is an army which will not fight except behind walls.
And, therefore, if you wish to strengthen your army, you
must strengthen it by men upon whom you can depend.
New, I have a thorough conviction of the gallantry of the
German nation, and I deeply regret to hear them spoken of
as the scum of Europe. (Hear, hear, and no, no.) These
are not terms which ought to be used to a nation which is
manifesting the greatest sympathy with us, and which
must ultimately join tin. I Depend upon it this great war
cannot be carried on without the intervention of auxilia-
ries. Whatever may be your dislike to a bill whieh has
excited the prejudices of many gentlemen, we must beware
how we attempt to fight the whole battle by ourselves—
how we use language and express opinions which may
deter other nations from coming to our assistance. (Hear,
hear.) This is a European quarrel. Those who talk lightly
about the German nations forget that they are in c oee proxi-
mity to Russia. We may have taken the most generous
course, and may have been the first on the field ; but
they must be forced into the field, and it does not' become
us to disparage them. (Cheers.) I have endeavoured to
explain why we want assistance—l have endeavoured to
show that, although we can get men, we cannot produce
them in an effective state. I have shown that the assis-
tance of these German soldiers would be invaluable. I ask
honourable gentlemen to vote for this measure upon its
merits. lam not afraid of their decision. I tell you you
have a right to vote for it. Each member has a right to
vote for it, according to his own impression of its merits.
All I claim for the Government is, that if you entrust us
with the duty of carrying on the war, you will net censure
us if we use our best efforts to do so effectually. You will
not say, " We chain ysu to the oar—we do not care what is
your opinion of what is right—we are the best and only
judges, and it is for you to follow our behests with obe-
dience." That is a position which no Government can be
placed in, and if any Government would consent to accept
such a position it would forfeit all public confidence. • We
have explained our objects. We think that this bill is
necessary. It may fail, but if it fails we cannot reproach
ourselves, as you will not be able to reproach us. If it
succeeds, it will be of incalculable assistance to us ; and
believing that to be the case, we urge it upon the house as
a measure which is necessary to the publicinterests. (Loud
cheers-)
Lord STANLEY said—l am generally unwilling to ad-
dress the house, and to-night I should be glad to leave the
question under our consideration in the hands of the hon.
baronet near me, whose speech was one worthy of his
literary eminence, and of the cause which he undertook to
advocate. I came up to this meeting of Parliament, as I
believe almost every gentleman upon this side of the house
\did-, with the sincere hope that we should separate for the
Christmas hglidays without the occurrence of any citeuin-
,,,t.,„... wa1,24. eoold tend an,diudurb the unanimity which at
the present moment it is so desirable should prevail. No
man who has the interest of the country at heart, or
who possesses one particle of public spirit, can desire, at a
period of great public emergency such as this, to throw
any impediment in the way of the Government. It is per-
fectly obvious that any one who in such a crisis finds fault
with any measure of a military character, whether offen-
sive or defensive, which her Majesty's Ministers may pro-
pose, does not merely expose himself to the customary
and inevitable attacks of those who are the supporters of
Government, but, what is of infinitely more importance,
that he runs no slight risk of being misapprehended and
misunderstood by tho public at large. (Hear, hear.)
There is therefore good reason why we should enter into
this discussion with every feeling of reluctance and regret.
(Hear, hear.) For myself, at all events, I may say that
there is eearcely any measure connected with the conduct
of the war, except that under our notice, which I should
not bait been reo t willing to pass over in silence. Mea-
sures might have Leon brought forward which we could
not have thought judicious, which WO could not have
thought, the best calculated to secure the objects for which
they had been framed; and under ordinary circumstances
we might have been willing to content ourselves with pro-
testing against such measures, with fixing the responsibi-
lity of their adoption on the Government, and with that
protest we might have suffered them to pass without any
further oppositions Bnt in this instance the act of the
Government precludes that unanimity which we desire.
engaged, they wished to secure a victory over
hei
Majesty's
political
(Hear.) It would seem as if, after all their professions of
the necessity of union in the great struggle in which
new
lopponents by compelling their opponents to
surrenderdiscretion to their commands. That is the
only
hypothesis
thesis ou which I can explain the policy which
her e
'd Ministers have here thought proper to pnr•
tw are
eisott
81.10. They are anxious to show thet they have such a
superabundance of strength that they can afford to pro-
voke the universal hostility of the country. (Hear, hear.)
, ejects discussed in the course of this year, had
In their endeavours to accomplish that object, they have
originated a measure which, among all the multitudes of
originality is certainly
paute. (Hear, hear, and a laugh.) But what
nmeivlietra,ryl &have, been suggested in any quarter—they have
originateddisput©.
under which this bill is brought
measure of which the
as we were, for the purpose only, we
a rbeyonde the
before us ? It is certainly somewhat singular that, sum-
moned as we were to consider measures connected with the
Speech from the Throne the
slightest intimation off en intention on the part of the
Government to bring onward
such a
measure as this.
(hear.) Yet that Speech was not filled with allusions to
to one subject, a multitude of topics; and to one subject
reference;
only, did it contain any
two bills and her Majesty's Mi-
nisters introduced two only havewar annodt arueemewivendedin the
have
tionthe Christmas recess.
One of these bills
thewas otteurded to in the Speech
Even the Throne ;
in .'and
not the less im-
portant, passed over
..absolute silence. When one
means insignifice
recollects the by no .
and the mode in which it has been brought under
before we are to separatel for
measure, as tempted to entertain a
• • •ust or
suspicion—J unjust, founded or unfounded—that
smuggle the bill
your object was to .hastily through the
Legislature before the country at large could have had
time to take into consideration—(cheers)—and so to extort
from Parliament in a moment—l will not say of panic, but
in a moment of emergency—athe notice of Parliament, one
Sanction to its provisions,
which the deliberate judgment of the nation must hare
'ls
shoit tthhoatugthhte—mlo.:y
refused. (Hear.) But what is the reasoning by which
Oils measure is defended listened .to the noble lord
he
you argued
ugeedt
while submitting it to the favourable consideration of the
house with that respectful attention which he is always
sure to command, and I certainly thought—and I was not
I believe, the only person
nraueglh in this country ? Is it that you
youc
n no havet
ge
tn omtemne
inn etni
like one who was performing a distasteful duty. But what
are the grounds on which this bill is defended ? Is it that
are not of an eligible class ? Or is it that, all these con-
siderations apart, you consider the measure necessary
on some general grounds of policy ? The noble lord
says that there is now a pressure on this country, and that
that pressure is always felt by us at the commencement of
a war. I have no doubt that such a pressure must exist
whenever, in the midst of profound peace, a nation is
called upon without warning to engage in a great war.
But what was your case? Had you no warning?
(Loud cries of " hear, hear.") For upwards of a year
—I will not say before any hostilities broke out--but for
upwards of a year before any hostilities broke out in which
you were engaged, was it not—l will not say certain —but
was it not more than probable that the English army
would have to enter the field ? (Hear.) And if that were
the case—if you were not taken by surprise—if the severe
pressure of which we hear so much ought to have been
mitigated by more than a year allowed for preparation,
and if of that time for preparation you did not adequately
avail yourselves, there are but two possible explanations
of your policy—either—which I belie re to be the case—
either the Government voluntarily declined to employ the
resources which the public placed, or were ready to place,
at their disposal; or else (that which no one asserts---that
which no one contends for) there was a deficiency of zeal
on the part of the country. Has there been the slightest
backwardness manifested by the public to prosecute the
war with vigour—has there been the slightest indication
of a want of enthusiasm on their parts? (Hear, hear.)
I think that to that question there will be no difficulty in
finding' at °nee an answer. We are all aware—whet I
never for a moment doubted to be the caso—that there
wes in this country a vast amount of latent public spirit
ready to be called forth whenever the emergency of the
moment might require it ; but I confess I did not antici-
pate the general—the more than general—the universal
enthusiasm with which this war has been taken up by every
class of the people. (Hear.) When we read such stories
as that whichl saw only the other day in the newspapers
—when we read of poor labouring men coming forward and
contributing the carefully-hoarded savings of years to the
Patriotic Fund--(cheers)—when we know, as I know of
my own personal knowledge, that operatives in Lanca-
shire, a portion of our people certainly not the most
disposed to warlike pursuits, not boys, but men, earning
255. or 30s. a week in the manufacturing towns of that
county, have left their homes to share in the ill-requited
perils and fetigues of a soldier's life in the Crimea—l
think we have sufficient evidence—if evidence were