The Sun.
London, England, 1853-02-25 00:00:00

administered the law as he found it. His duties were de-
fined and his responsibility controlled. But every mem-
er of Parliament shared in making laws affecting life
,liberty, Property, and that very religious liberty which the
noble lord admired. (Hear, hear.) Ho believed the
character of the constitution was such that they were en-
Ibled to impart those blessings of religious liberty to every
enomination outside the house. But if they admitted all
persons, and destroyed that common bond of union, the pro-
fession of Christianity, then they made Christianity itself an
9Pen question. Those were the views which were forcibly
impressed on his mind, and they were identical with the
v.iews entertained by the enlightened mind of the late Dr.
Many appeals had been made to these feelings.
ge would yield to no man in deep and sacred sympathy to
ewe Jews. Theirlistory and hopes were surrounded with
ieeavenly grandeur, and he would preserve to them every
fair and rightful privilege ; but he could not overlook the
Punishment which, at the end of nearly two thousand
Years, still hung over them, for the rejection of the Saviour
.I),f mankind, and he would ake care, as far as he could, to
"e n, Party to unchristianising that house, to bring down,
fetnaPs, upon the constitution the Divine displeasure.
. Rear, hear.)
, Lord hear
admitted that the subject was
thoroughly exhausted, and was better fitted for immodate
decision than for protracted discussion ; but he claimed the
iodul.gence of the house while he explained how it was he
was about to give a vote entirely at variance with his votes
rformer occasions. (Ironical cheers from the Opposi-
-1,1n.) Re perfectly understood-the meaning of that cheer ;
"11', in the words of the right honourable baronet the
e,Menaber for the University of Oxford " they were not to
e so much blamed for an errorOcommitted, committed, as for confirm-
'ng in that error." (Hear.) He had voted against this
adenre in 1847, and in 1849 ; but since 1849 he had
v`sedlY and purposely abstained from taking any part in
re discussions, and he had neither spoken nor voted on
the question. Had his convictions remained unchanged,
e should still have thought, after repeated majorities of
that house had affirmed the principle, that the Jews should
not be excluded, he was not justified in offering any fur-
ther opposition. (Derisive cheers.) But he would not
Ishelter himself by that plea. Year after year he had
necome more and more convinced that arguments which
mrmerly seemed theoretical and titular were in reality
unsound, and that there was nothing he could cling to in
spiriti of Christianity which justified his further oppos-
ng the admission of Jews into that house. (Loud derisive
chars from the Opposition.) He had nothing further to
what had been so ably said by the noble lord the
Member for the city of London, but he did not choose,
under the circumstances, to give a silent vote. (Renewed
ironical cheers.)
31r. WIGRAM and Colonel SIBTHORP rose together,
and neither showed tho least inclination to give way.
After a moment or two, the SPEAKER called on the
former gentleman.
"WIGRAM considered that this proposal, if carried,
would be regarded by a large mass of the people of this
Z.:3elitrY as a great slight to Christianity. (Hear, hear.) It
as Particularly pressed upon the house by the noble lord
la claim for justice. If he could be satisfied that it was
' .naelaire. for justice, he should no longer resist it. But he
* '.'"nld not help thinking the noble lord was considering only
Justice to
ea;e_— one party. The noble lord spoke of justice to the
.-rate. He wandied to know whether justice was not to
There to the constituency. (Cheers and counter cheers.)
ere were twoquestions to be considered. The first was
whether it was gright or not that qualification should be
B,l3lle,xed to the representatives elected by the constituen-
The secon was, whether this particular
cfna, lification, theprofession of the Christian religion, was
tJus,t qualification to be annexed ? On the first ques-
e',,enpe thought there was no doubt. That being so, the
candidates were elected by a majority of the constituents,
14313-€1 that majority imposed on the minority, perhaps only
did not
votes, a person to' be their representative, who
oot represent their political opinions at all. That re-
ti7t could not be helped. It arose from the necessity of
case, but surely the candidate ought to be a man who
t,igt reasonably be imposed on the minority by an arbi-
biearY majority. Then came the question was this require-
ut of the profession of Christianity a fair and reasonable
qualification ? Considering that this was a Chris-
tiaZ c°llntry, and that the constituencies were substan-
hbleY, Chiistians, he was disposed to say it was but reason
require that the candidate to be imposed on the
the nation at large. (Hear, hear.) They talked of deal-
ti! with this matter as a civil and not as a religious ues-
tions the two 'were so bound in all social considera-
tio
that they could not be separated. Supposing a ques-
,ll'i-ere brought forward touching the observance of the
a day, a Jew, from the nature of the case, was not in
neeltion to exercise his judgment upon it, (Hear, hear.)
bleat institution, which was observed by Christians in m-
int:braze° of Christian circumstances, was an observance
ekse which the Jew could not enter. Let them take the
tnt °I education. He did not mean Church education ;
tiotßn, Ppose they were asked to consider, as a branch of ne-
education, whether instruction in the New Testa merit should form a part, the most important question in
f onerY way which could be brought forward, and one which,
t
call t soon be he expressions of the noble lord, they migh
he
tied3•l upon to consider. (Hear hear.) Then, again,
it was not unreasonable that the minority of a consti-
ee 11eY should have the means of knowing that their rFpye-
untative was in a position to form and exercise an opinion
that subject. He said the Jew could not do it. They.
tinst have a believer in the New Testament to form an es-
syTsate of the advantages of that book forming a part of a
e.trk elnl of national education. (Hear, hear.) Many ex-
able might be put, in all of which it was not unreason-
sioris; inquire that the representative imposed by .a
ma-
:n a minority should be in a position to exercise his
• t•
ieet on questions of vital interest to the whole cona-
neee i • (Rear, hear.) When these views were taken.
eke coensideratiOn, he thought that the argument for. jus-
,l:o4s rather against a measure of this kind than in !a-
-- as ewefl I fact, this bill sacrificed the justice which
Justid "" he constituency to what was asserted to be the
that -lie to the candidate. It might just as well be said
that ;;'. Was 11/I.llst to impose a property qualification as
roug- was unjjust to impose the qualification of a certain
belief ; for his own part, he thought that both
sere
perfectly just, if the social interests of the country
'WV:tired them, and the qualifications were properly im-
Posed. He should, therefore, give his most conscientious
and earnest opposition to this proposition. (Cheers.)
Mr. D. SEYMOUR thought that the argument of the
honourable member, who had just resumed his seat, had
been characterised by the same vein of sophistry that had
~marked all the speeches which had been delivered On the
same side. The presence of the honourable member for
Path (Mr. Lucas) in that house was sufficient to show
hew little such arguments would bear the test of practical
Inference. If Roman Catholics were admitted into the
Legislature,. he (Mr. Seymour) should like to know on what
...
°wads they could exclude the Jews. (Divide.) He must
Protest against the argument of the right hon. gentleman
the member for the University of Dublin, when he said
, a measure like that proposedldbyuteheehrinoetbileeelineerdtthwee
"4einber for the City of Londone would
(Mr. Seymour) submitted
Z,n/Intry. On the contrary,
adroit
the best way of christianisingh the Jews would be to
rethem to Parliament. (Oh, and hear, hear.) In the
reign of George 11., when the question had been raised
Whether Jews ought to be naturalised, persons had been
b` °lllld to pro y gloomy things for England from the
.awing of aeme-easure, but the results of the years that
followed had stamped the stigma of falsity upon such
prophecies. And now that the Jews were admitted to the
eox, and to the exercise of
.magisterial. functions, how
• the and
refuse to admit them into the Legislature. ? He
be.retained that the best way of making Jews patriots had
th-n to naturalise them, and that the
them into Parliament.
true. way to make
Christians would be to admit
adt, and a laugh.) It had been asserted that England
ahe• °- Peerless in her liberality towards the Jewish nation
e. ve all nations of the world • but this we.san error, and
,oe °linger country might be pointed to, which gave a total
Was to this opinion. In America hse question
and ttwia4 not what was a man's creed, but what was his
hi -Lit was only twelve or fourteen years ago that a Je_wirsh.
'..'esheriff had been returned for the city of NewYo York.
Prance, too the Jews were admitted to a full share ft
roastitutional rights. (Divide, divide.) He would not
ti•tprtllreoccupy the tint e of the house at that late hour, bu
(1/ear, hearty support to the motion before the house.
near. )
thel
that
SIBTHORP said that a noble lord had told
ea.,91 he would give a vote that night totally at
with those that he had given before—
eee "Tempora mutantur, et nos mutamur ab illis."
(Colo
gel Sibthorp) was happy to say that ho was in a
hol;jefferent position.' (Laughter.) He would ask the
lord the member for London how he could come fnr-
reitail. to that table, where they were in the habit of in-
teekeg Him on whom we all relied for every blessing, and
hoe, .1' Proposal for unchristianising the members
(Loud laughter.) Why it was on the principle,
eived, of " scratch me, and I'll scratch you." (Re-
hilow 4anghter.) It was necessary for the noble lord to
.ver a little fellow-feeling, and bring forward a colleague,
(44 respectable individual he (Colonel Sibthorp) had no
he The then he was a Jew. (Laughter, and divide.)
stehtird no right to desecratean assembly. like that, and
kr accordingly vote against the motion.
othet; 41' O'CONNELL belonged to a pale which, of all
Prop,": ,was the most maligned next to that to which the
datt'ai of the noble lord related, and he felt it to be his
Bilbje Bay a word on behalf of that portion of his !ollow
lie his 8 _ . were still labouring under civil disabilities.
Was fa,,)Pinion every British subject of the Crown, who
kitnit,"nful in his allegiance and did his duty, ought to be
htitittiYed to each aneevery privilege of the British con-
When (Rear, hear.) He hoped to live to see the ditty
iv
la that h aromedan subjects of this realm would have seats
The h (Oh, oh, and divide.)
Aore divided. The numbers were—
ga into committee
a inst it
The ....................
—29
Majority for
On o,,,!esnit of the division s ceived with loud cheering.
.ereiriitLe-admission to the was receivedwith loud cheering.
to inittee
,55ion to the gallery, we found the house in
'"e Put th!, and Mr. Wilson Patten (the chairman) about
,I;reias,
_a resolution upon which the bill is to be founded,
inestioaat"tenri;glcleci,
amidst
whicho f A
one
oarn dt
w`o` Nh
honourable
Somerb lte
t2acesom.ns
Y. the tempted to speak, but they wore compelled o_de
effect
Ctraence of the contending cries. At length
the
iteeeettzhel,
tit-e11...118AX read the resolution, w
expedient to remove all civil disaasbilities
in he
auhenrel‘fajesty'.s subjects. of the e Jewish persuasion,
ne cas and with like exceptions to those provided
Thee of her Majesty's subjects professing the Roman
teligion
'kYsal'eatitution. was then put, when the laud cries of
Mer NO were vociferously renewed. An hon.
44.10 ' amid th
Ora tirinnent e confusion, was understood to move an
,_tve , and the Chairman ordered strangers to with-
htk,r. ellerY, however, was not cleared.
na hieis-ceeoatLlE (addressing the committee without ri7.-
therm are so sSir, the question having been pu.,
else! colleen. iinany new members in the house, perhaps
actual`he ..etu to say that if the division is not challenged
ly talr4e37els" and " noes" being given, no division will
tea_ e upon, the.; and since a division has already taken
t;_iadaess. a„,main question, it seems to me to be unne-
(lVar ?erfillOUS to take a division upon the resolu-
Mittl: °}lkiee,
Thee, and it MAN again put the resolution to the cora-
t° bei l'esolut;lv" agreed to without a division.
rig then was then reported, and leave was given
rnyke IsA
•4!'e BUTT obtained, leave to bring in a hill to
e4Bek. "uloo for the granting of new trials in criminal
ALtr
4r)ti 'PITT
the ee' for th NstPoned the motion of vhich hn
quire. given
ta' 41.1ceat• e appointment' of a committee to iinto
aelenauetenaiee3tcontained in a petition complaining of cer-
ollaiteeoemlemctitiotene.for Cork until after the
t.he belete.44
O'r "BIliG Po
,eat,i„•• YOtex, WERS, Sze. (IRELAND).
itaaatt,ip9esera YOUNG
that the select committee on the
Ind) L:Litight ), Landlord and Tenant (Ireland),
Si taco 118 do eland, and Tenants' Compensation (Ire-
eeont pn, consist of 30 members, viz., Sir J Y
44. 'le Pe '"lnerston J. 011113,
• Joh,stgllBo/1 Mr. Shoe, Lord Naas, kr. Lucas,
serak'it4-4-- Kirk, Mr. Henry Herbert, Mr. Roche,
ld, Mr. Pagan, Mr. Robert Phillimore,

Mr. James Sadleir, Viscount Monck, Mr. Walpole, Colonel
Creville, Mr. Napier, Mr. Duffy, Mr. Davison, Mr. Bright,
Mr. Drummond, Mr. Mackenzie, Mr. Dunlop, Vernon,
Mr. Bouverie, Mr. Pollard Urquhart, Mr. Fortescue,
Lord Claud Hamilton, Mr. Whiteside, and Mr. Grogan.
The first named was agreed to. On the second being
proposed,
Captain JONES inquired whether the right hon. gentle-
man the Secretary for the Home Department would be able
to serve ? • •
Viscount PALMERSTON was understood to intimate
his willingness to do so.
The name was then agreed to, as were the names of Mr.
Shee and Lord Naas ; but the name of Mr. Lucas being
proposed,
Sir A. BROOKE complained that, whilst the committee
consisted of fourteen Irish Liberal members, only six Con-
servative members had been named, and there was not a
single representative for Ulster.
Sir JOHN YOUNG justified the selection, which he-con.
sidered perfectly fair. The appointment of tiro committee
was not an act of the present Government, but of the House
of Commons ; and he was performing a mere ministerial
duty in selecting the names. He had consulted the hon-
ourable member for the University of Dublin as to certain
members, and the honourable member for Kilkenny as to
others. He thought at first the committee ougnt to con-
sist of twenty-one members, seven to be named by the
honourable member for the University, seven by the hon-
ourable member for Kilkenny, and seven by the Govern-
ment. But this difficulty occurred : the honourable mem-
ber for Manchester and the honourable member for Surrey
had given great attention to the subject, and had served on
several Irish committees, and he thought it desirable to
enlarge the committee, and place thereon the names of
some other gentlemen. The honourable gentleman oppo-
site complained that Ulster was unrepresented. Now,
Ulster was represented in his (Sir John Young's) person,
and in the persons of Lord Naas and Sir R. Ferguson.
The present Government, he contended, was not respon-
sible for the appointment of the committee, and their only
object was that the inquiry should be carried out as fairly
as possible.
After a few words from Sir A. BROOKE and Mr.
KER,
Mr. MACARTNEY recommended that the committee
should consist of twenty-one members instead of thirty,
seven to be nominated by the honourable and learned ser-
geant, seven on behalf of the Into Government, and seven
on behalf of the present.
Mr. BROTHERTON thought it too late to discuss this
matter further, and begged to move the adjournment of
the debate.
Mr. SCULLY was satisfied with the proposed constitu-
tion of the committee. No committee which did not fully
represent the tenant class as well ati the landlord class
would give any satisfaction in Ireland. He hoped that
after the large professions which had been made from the
other side, no further opposition would be offered to the
appointment of the committee.
Sir W. VERNER objected to the appointment on the
committee of certain members who had committed them-
selves by the advocacy of extreme views at public meetings
or otherwise, and had declared their intention to oppose
any Government which did not concede what they re-
quired.
Mr. NAPIER thought it desirable the question should
be brought to a close as soon as possible, as whilst it re-
mained open it disturbed Ireland, and depreciated Irish
property. No committee could be free from objection
from some quarter ; on the whole he should support this,
and would give its deliberation his best assistance. (Hear.)
Sir JOHN WALSH said the larger the committee the
laxer the attendance. He thought this too large, and
thought the names required reconsideration.
Lord J. RUSSELL drew attention to the fact that the
hon. member opposite (Mr. Napier), who was more inte-
rested in this matter than almost any member of the
house, had declared himself satisfied with the committee.
Bat if the house still objected to the committee, he thought
the question had better be postponed. (Hear, hear,
no, no.)
After a few words from Mr. T. KFiNNEDY and Mr.
KIRK, •
Mr. BROTHERTON moved the adjournment of tho
debate.
Mr. DUFFY said it had been objected (by Sir W. Ver-
ner) that, whereas the Ulster tenant right question was to
be inquired into, no representative of Ulster was on the
committee. If it was true, as the gallant colonel also
said, that nobody, even in Ulster, understood that ques-
tion, he couldnot see that it was a serious loss. (Laughter.)
However, he happened, as an Ulster man, to know what
was the fact, and could state that seven members of that
committee were born and reared in the province of Ulster.
(Hear, hear.) The reasonable objection to the committee
was, that the Secretary for Ireland had placed on it four
additional representatives of the landlord class. If they
intended to have a bill that would settle that question,
they must halre a committee whom the tenantry would
trust.
The debate was then adjourned to Monday next.
MAYNOOTH COLLEGE.

On the motion of Mr. SCHOLEFIELD, the debate on
his amendment to Mr. Spooner's motion with respect to
Maynooth College, was adjourned to Wednesday next.
Tho house then adjourned at ten minutes past one
o'clock.