The Sun.
London, England, 1853-04-19 00:00:00

c- . •
ARLsIAE-MEN
• , •
IIVIPHouEsERThIAr_mLoRPD
o. r
i 14%
S--(YE T RDAY.)
tkl74*.P
• • 4re
,C-' , r
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the-woo/
.• — 174.-
-V1:404.
°M
YR
•• •
as,X\
481.1116.
I
• ' ) 41714, V \
. 1 +0
a
.0 i =~z • 411(11 shortly after five o'clock.
1 1:1. •
Several petitions were presented by
.-rt• • 4-44,u,e --A or r „

pt
the Maynooth grant.

7 nol

Le lords against

MAYNOOTH GRANT.

The Earl of WINCHESTER rose, in pursuance of
notice, to move for a committee to inquire into the sys-
tem of education pursued at the College of Maynooth.
The establishment by a Papal bull of ecclesiastical titles
in this country was only a new instance of the grasping
disposition of the Church of Rome, and it behoved the
people and Government of this country to be on the
alert that no harm should accrue to our religious
institutions. The canon law was opposed to the civil
law of nearly every country, and that was the law which
the Church of Rome was endeavouring to introduce
into this country. To permit the introduction of such
a law would be a virtual surrender of the government
of this country into the hands of the Pope, and the Go-
vernment would fail in their duty to the people and the so-
vereign of this realm by countenancing such a proceeding,
It was the imperative duty of the Government to ascer-
tain that the system of education pursued in a college
supported at the public expense should not be opposed
to our Protestant institutions.
The Earl of ABERDEEN--I shall not think it neces-
sary to renew before your lordships the discussion of
what is called the Papal aggression, which occupied so
much of your lordships' time some months since. I con-
fess I think the debates upon that subject are not to be
looked back to with any great satisfaction. (Hear, hear.)
I certainly think that the motion made by the noble earl
seems hardly calculated to answer the observation with
which he prefaced it. Surely if he thinks the imprudence
is so vast, the danger so imminent as he has described,
it is not a committee which he ought to have ended by
proposing to your lordships, but a measure which would
have met the emergency. Upon the declared objects of
the noble earl's motion I do not intend to offer any obser-
vation ; in fact, I think it perfectly reasonable that over
an institution endowed, established, and maintained by
the State, Parliament ought to have a right of supervi-
sion—(hear, hear)—in order to see that the intentions of
the Legislature had been fulfilled, and honestly carried
out. But the fulfilment must be according to the in-
tentions of the Legislature ; you are not to expect Pro-
testant doctrines in a Roman Catholic college—(hear,
hear)—nor are you to interfere or to control the doctrine
or the religious discipline and worship of the church of
Rome as taught and practised therein. It is a little late
after the system now pursued at Maynooth has been
followed for so many years, to tell the house that we
have abandoned our duty to our country and our God.
But what, after all, is the real object of this inquiry t
The noble earl (the Earl of Winchilsea) talks of an in-
quiry into the system of education, but surely that can-
not be the real object of his motion. The object of the noble
earl, he has more than once avowed in this house, is to
overthrow the whole establishment of Maynooth—(hear)
—to withdraw the recent grants, and to annihilate
that system which has so long been established. Now,
I think, it is unnecessary to refer to the history of
Maynooth. Your lordships are all perfectly acquainted
with it ; unfortunately, indeed, we have heard of it too
often. The noble earl will recollect that that institution
was first recognised in the reign of George 111., by the
advice of Mr. Pitt. It had since received many advan-
tages by various acts of Parliament, until at last came
that wise measure introduced by my late right hon. friend
Sir R. Peel, and in this house carried by the resistless
and persuasive eloquence of the noble earl opposite (the
Earl of Derby). Upon that occasion the noble earl who
moved the resolution this evening said, that to carry that
measure would be to commit an act ofpolitical suicide more
flagrant than had ever been committed by any country since
the existence of the world. This was the act 0f1845, which
I believe to have been one of the most wise, most just, and
most honourable measures adopted in this country, since
the great act of emancipation, against which, however,
the noble earl had spoken in equally strong terms. The
noble earl when he proposed this motion, could hardly
have had in his memory the very ample inquiry into the
whole system of Maynooth made in the year 1829. Mr.
Franklin Lewis and others then inquired into the whole
matter, and made a very elaborate report, so elaborate
indeed that it had been said, and perhaps justly, that
their labours superseded the necessity of any inquiry at
the present time. But I willing to concur in the tide of
public feeling, and I therefore do not oppose myself as
I should otherwise do from a feeling that no sufficiently
urgent case has been made out for an inquiry. I hope
and believe that the College of Maynooth has nothing to
fear from it. I believe, indeed, that it will redound to
the advantage and credit of that institution. lam
aware that the parties interested do not object to
any fair inquiry that may be instituted. But though
Ido not oppose an inquiry, I cannot admit that such
an inquiry as is proposed by the noble earl is that to
which your lordships ought to accede. The noble earl
says he wishes a fair inquiry. I leave your lordships to
judge what sort of an inquiry you will possess if regu-
lated in the spirit in which the noble earl speaks.
(Cheers.) Allow me to say a word upon the course of
procedure adopted upon this occasion. The noble earl,
at the commencement of the session—in the early part
of November—put upon the minutes of this house, a
notice in the following words :—" To move for a com-
mittee to inquire whether the social and moral principles,
inculcated by the system of education pursued at May-
nooth, are not opposed to the great principles of civil
and religieus liberty on which the Protestant Government
of this country is based." Now this, according to the ordi-
nary rules of construction, is a declaration that the sys-
tem is opposed to those principles. Nevertheless the
notice remained on the book of your lordships' house for
three or four months. I think your lordships must feel
how offensive and insulting it must have been to every
Roman Catholic subject of her Majesty. At last, how-
ever, the noble earl fell into the hands of more dexterous
tacticians, and they told him, " This won't do ; this can-
not be carried—it is too insulting, too offensive ; what-
ever you think, whatever you fee, at least make your
motion a little decent in its terms." Accordingly, the
noble earl substituted his present motion to "move for
an inquiry into the system of education pursued at May-
nooth." The whole course of procedure showed the
animus of the noble earl in the matter. The noble earl
then went on to say that the mover of the resolution be-
fore the house had detailed at length various matters con-
nected with the Pope and the Church of Rome, but he had given no reason or statement to show how this was con-
nected with the College of Maynooth, except that he
had referred to the excess and violence in the conduct of
the Irish priesthood during the late elections. But
even this had nothing to do with Maynooth, for the
priests who had acted improperly were not educated
at Maynooth. He believed that the measure of 1845
in reference to this college was a wise and just measure
—(hear, hear)—and that it had already had a most bene-
ficial effect ; but from the regulations of the college, it
was impossible that the existing priests could have been
educated since that time. He anticipated great good
would result from the measure of 1845, and, indeed,
great good had already resulted. He had in his hand
a letter from the Chief Baron, in which he described
these advantages. (Hear, hear.) He saw that very
soon after the Maynooth Act passed, a most pleasing
change was observed ; the number of candidates was *
very much increased, the preliminary examinations
were most strict, and a much better system of instruc-
tion was adopted. It was shown that the full effect of
the act of 1845 could not be developed for a considerable
time, but during 1846-7 and 8, and during the cholera,
the mortality among the parish priests had been very
great, but this act would operate in supplying for the
population a very superior class of spiritual instructors,
and thus eminently fulfil the views of the great statesman
who introduced the measure. He (Lord Aberdeen) did
not fear the result of any inquiry fairly conducted that
might take place ; and he would say, that although far
from objecting to any fair inquiry, he did not think that
it would be at all desirable that such a subject should
occupy a committee of their lordships' house. (Hear,
hear.) He thought it was inevitable that before
a committee of their lordships' house, in a case of this
kind strong religious enmity and discord would be ex-
cited ; and an unseemly discussion must necessarily
occur in committee. (Hear, hear.) If they were desir-
ous of having a fair, impartial inquiry, conducted by
able and impartial men, he believed that no man in-that
house thought but that he would endeavour to appoint
such a commission no would ensure the utmost degree of
impartiality. (Hear.) The noble earl (Winchilsea) had
refbrred to opinions which he (Earl Aberdeen) had ex-
pressed on this matter, and he thought he attached more
importance to those opinions than they were worth, and
he hoped that none of their lordships would imagine,
whatever those opinions were worth, that he had aban-
doned the Protestant principles which he professed, or
that he had any feeling towards the noble earl which he
ought not to have. He repudiated any such feeling, none
such actuated him ; but, to the best of his judgment,
he was sincerely desirous that the commission should be
so Constituted as to give full satisfaction to that house
and to the country— (cheers)—and, under these circum.
adseoepfittthtoe
stances, he trusted that their lordships would
reject the motion of the noble earl, and
amendment which he would move. The noble earl then
moved as an amendment,
p"raTlyliantgatntahtuhmebrle address be
Majesty will
pr4sented to her Majesty
be graciously pleased to issue a commission to inquire
into the management and government of the Colleg f
Maynooth, the discipline, and the coursed of studies pur-
suedeo therein ; also, into the effects pro uced by the in-
creased grants conferred by Parliament in 1845."
The Earl of RODEN denied, from his own experience,
that any change for the better
ghadrantta.keTnheprleawceeriennte
character of the priests since the two additional reasons aainsit its being continued—for
the famine and the Exodus
viaeddry decreased the pulation, and there had been
Halso
popula-
tions to Protestantism. many genuine conven-
ingp concluded by taunt-
the now united Administration with their former
diversity of opinion, and their un-Protestant Canada
Clergy Reserves Bill.
Lord DUFFEItIN expressed himself strongly in
favour of a full and free toleration, a policy which no
Ministry would now dare to oppose. It was an error to
suppose that all Roman Catholics shared the political
opinions of which they had been accused. He could not
anticipate any good results arising from an inquiry, which
would only revive animosities which would otherwise
have been gradually extinguished.
The Earl of DESART expected much from the ap-
pointment of a committee, denounced the Roman Catho-
lic priesthood for their interference in political matters,
and, with reiterated apologies for his egotism, entered
into a digression to prove that he was not a tyrannical
Orange landlord, and pronounced a lengthy eulogy on
the late Lord-Lieutenant.
Lord BEAUMONT said that he found little to chwooon
between a committee and a commission. Either
th er
no
°LI
inquire into the system of education, and be
sion for inquiry at all.
The Bishop of LONDON, in coinD3Ontin 01 the
-