The Sun.
London, England, 1854-02-11 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 11, 1854.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

to put an end to the existing state of affairs in the prin-
cipalities—as we have tried negotiations too long, and
found them fail, are we not bound in honour to proceed
to war ? And, if we are not at this moment at war, or
proceeding to war, are we not covering ourselves with
disgrace ; I think the question put by the noble mar-
quis ought to be answered by the Government ; and the
question is this—are any negotiations now taking place
on the part of this country for obtaining peace ?
The Earl of ABERDEEN.—Certainly, there are
none.
Lord BEM:MONT.—If no negotiations are going on
for peace, are we to remain satisfied, and are no steps to
be taken to put an end to the present state of affairs
in the principalities ?
Earl GRANVILLE.—I rise to order. (Hear.) I
think that even the question put by the noble earl (Grey)
although notice of it was given, was of an irregular
character. I acknowledge the importance of that ques-
tion ; but it seems to me irregular to propose questions
in this house respecting the order of business in the
House of Commons. The noble baron who has just ad-
dressed the house, not content with one speech, has made
two, in the course of which he went on putting argu-
mentative questions, to which he seems to expect answers.
I hope that a sense of what is due to the dignity of
the house will prevent a continuance of this scene.
(Hear.) All that my noble friend• at the head of
the Government said—and I hope he is not the only man
in the country who shares the sentiment—was, that
while war is not declared there is still some chance of
maintaining peace. My noble friend answered explicitly
that he is not aware of any negotiations going on, but
he hopes there is a chance of peace being maintained
from this circumstance, that from the policy pursued by
the Government in co-operation with France having
resulted the cordial combination of the great Powers of
Europe, that combination may be followed, on the part
of Russia, by some departure from the violent, and, I
must say, imprudent course which she has hitherto pur-
sued.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE.—I am sorry to
have fallen under the rebuke of the noble Lord Presi-
dent ; but he must excuse me for telling him that it is
not I, but he, who is ignorant of the usages of Parlia-
ment, if he thinks that at a time when it is doubtful
whether the country is at war or peace, and after the
Prime Minister has made a speech, it is irregular for a
member of either House of Parliament to rise in his
place and ask a question arising out of a gratuitous
assertion in that Minister's speech. (Hear.) I found no
fault with what the noble earl at the head of the Go-
vernment said, but I demanded an explanation. I
have now received a free and frank one. The
noble earl says fairly that negotiations are closed.
There are none going on at St. Petersburg ; none, I
hope, at Constantinople ; and none anywhere that we
know of. That, I say, is a fair and clear answer, but my
question was a very pertinent one to put. What are
the facts of the case ? The noble earl at the head
of the Government alluded to the country as not being
in a state of war, and followed that up by saying he
hoped war was not inevitable, thus occasioning your
lordships' minds to jump—if I may use the expression—
to a conclusion very different from that to winch we
were led by the course of the debate the other evening.
I maintain, then, that I was perfectly right in asking
the question I did, and, far from receiving the noble
earl's rebuke with the humility which, perhaps, he anti-
cipated, I contend that the course I have taken is in
conformity with the usage of Parliament—(hear)--and
if the present unfortunate state of things should con-
tinue, I shall not fail to ask for information from Minis-
ters of the Crown upon any points which seem to require
elucidation. I admit it to be desirable, both for the
purpose of convenience and for the sake of obtaining a
clear answer, that notice should be given of questions ;
but questions arising out of statements made by Minis-
ters of the Crown ought to be proposed immediately,
and I hope that, as long as Parliament maintains its in-
dependence of the Crown and Ministers, such questions
will continue to be put. (Hear.)
Earl GREY—I also rise to protest against the re-
buke which the noble earl has thought fit to administer
to me, my noble friend, and the house itself. The
noble earl said that our proceedings on the present
occasion were inconsistent with the dignity of the
house. For my part, I believe they are perfectly
regular, and that any proceedings in the Commons
House of Parliament with which we are made
acquainted by the printed votes laid upon their table
may properly be noticed in this house if any of your
lordships think that by doing so they can promote the
public welfare. I am not aware that in founding a
question on a notice in the Commons' paper I was guilty
of any irregularity. lam also unaware that the noble
baron near me (Lord Beaumont) committed any irregu-
larity. I concur in the expediency of not pressing the
Government to proceed further than they are prepared
to go. I assure the noble earl at the head of the Govern-
ment that I entirely concur with him in an earnest
desire for the preservation of peace ; and although the
Russian Minister has left our shores—although, as I
have heard, part of the Queen's Guards are ordered for
embarcation—and although every other symptom indi-
cates that we are on the eve of actual hostilities, yet I
heard with unfeigned satisfaction that the Government
still does not despair of the preservation of peace. As
far as I am concerned, nothing shall fall from my lips
which could in the least contribute to the embarrassment
of the Government, or prevent them from carrying on
negotiations or adopting measures by which they may
still think it possible to avert the calamities of war. My
only motive for putting the question which I proposed,
was a conviction—in no degree shaken by what fell
from the noble earl—that, from a false point of honour,
and iu order to redeem a pledge, the Government are
wantonly and deliberately about to risk the welfare,
and, perhaps, the safety of the country by bringing for-
ward, at an imprudent moment, the question of which
hey have given notice. (Hear, hear.)
Their lordships then adjourned.

vigour and effect. These changes—even in times of
profound peace and tranquillity—are not unattended
with certain inconvenience, but at a moment of actual
HOUSE OF LORDS—(YESTERDAY.) preparation for war, or on the breaking out of hostilities,
I am sure that every man must :eel that a change of
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the wool- Ministers would be attended with the greatest incon-
sack at 5 o'clock. venience, if not danger. We cannot afford to have a
THE EASTERN QUESTION. Ministerial crisis needlessly brought on, or needlessly
The Earl of CLARENDON having laid upon the table of risked, at a time when the attention of the country is
entirely occupied with providing for its own defence,
the house papers connected with the suspension of di lo- for the vigorous conduct cf the hostilities with
matic relations between Russia and this country, which it is threatened. (Hear, hear.) It is on these
Earl FITZ WILLIAM said, I shall now proceed to grounds lam most anxious to know whether—even at
put to my noble friend at the head of the Foreign-office at the last moment—her Majesty's Government may be
iwwn
hictlihienbe dI tho a
Ministersvpeo as tc
ifpnvoe
thinking
iend
k. bringingingA tt
that
ahteforwardtbretceht eI
is ms
es uwarghe
which
ete
hoe
the question of which I gave notice yesterday. It is so
much a matter of notoriety that I need not remind your
lordships of it, that a Russian Minister has lately pro- ought to be taken into consideration as soon as possible.
ceeded from St. Petersburg to Vienna for the purpose, All that has taken place during the last two or three years
it is supposed, of making some proposals either to the proves that no advantage is to be gained by attempting
which
Court of Vienna, or through the Court of Vienna to the to get rid of the question. However inconvenient and
d
maymore
settled,obr be
pressingt er
deals til
lw,ini lett
al
settehmge
ought
wunehesittei
hotnot
h,
teiatpk
resent
soennet
Ottoman Court. The question, therefore, or rather the
pre-
questions, which lam desirous of putting to my noble eid nu el
et mustof it
the
be
friend are these is -let, whef:aer her Majesty's Govern- state of the country demands. I therefore beg to ask
inept are cognizant of an Os such propositions which have
tts: the
ai t
eeotrnoblenesusueobthat
the
frjoer
ceta
the
ohrolfet
arahprteivamrtrihyliaii
je
aoaemuhsn
steedyean.dnstoaafoGrvfypyo t
vral:eerefrl
ionGarmmi
no
eve
nnue
trtnndibnem ertefenotnhtrdee cttooh ne
sb whetherierdisent ii rgt:
been made there—l ooean, of any propositions which i
have been made eithor to the Court of Vienna, or to the
a
Ottoman Court &.rough the intervention of the Court of m
Vienna ; and, secondly, whether, in the event of any The Earl of ABERDEEN—In answer to the question
copy of then) propositions being in the possession of her put by the noble earl, I have to inform him that it is the
Majesty's Government, my noble friend would have any
intention of a noble lord, on Monday next, to bring for-
objection to lay that document, either in extenso or in ward a measure of Parliamentary reform in the House
subs 'ante, before Parliament ? of Commons. If I correctly understood the noble earl,
The Earl of CLARENDON—It is notorious, as my the objection he takes to that course of proceeding rests
noble friend has said, that Count Orloff has been sent on the supposition of its interfering with those prepare-
upon a special mission from St. Petersburg to Vienna. tions —those military and naval preparations—which the
I believe that he was not the bearer of that counter- present state of this country not only justifies but de-
project or answer to the terms of the Turkish Go- mends. Now, my lords, it will not practically have any
vernment to which I alluded the other night. Those such effect. The navy estimates were laid on the table
terms, or counter-terms were sent by the Aus- of the House of Commons yesterday. It was impossible,
trian chargé d'affaires from St. Petersburg to from the nature of these estimates
day than next Friday for their consideration. On Friday,
Vienna, in reply to the communication which he had , to appoint an earlier
therefore, the navy estimates will be taken into consider-
been instructed to make to the Russian Govern- ation ; but the measure of Parliamentary reform, although
ment. I may as well mention in substance what the proposed on Monday, will not be proceeded with until
ffe(rCihneers.) consequence The pubelfic the introduction
proceed either to St. Petersburg, or to the head guar -
terms proposed by Russia were. The first was, that it after the consideration of the estimates,
hbeusboth for the
was indispensable that a Turkish plenipotentiary should
- af
or there-
or
ne
Y.
will and
nnoatv suffer
of the Reform Bill ; but her Majesty's Government have
ters of the Russian army, in order to negotiate a peace ; felt that their character is at stake and depends on the
secondly, that if he came to St. Petersburg the repre- introduction of that measure ; and, if it had been pos-
sentative of the Four Courts might have instructions sible to postpone it, we should have met with -the just
to advise and concert with the Turkish plenipoten- reprobation of Parliament and the country for taking
tiary, but the form of a conference was to be avoided ; that course. Noble lords seem to think that we are
thirdly, that there was to be some separate or independent actually at war. Now, I must say that, not only is that
act or protocol, defining clearly former or recent fir- not the case, but I for one deny, although it has been
mans of the Sultan, confirming or constituting the asserted in this house by various noble lords, that war
privileges and immunities of the Greek Church in the is inevitable. On the contrary, although I admit the
East. There was also an article to the effect that the case is such as to require ample preparation to meet the
principalities should be evacuated as soon as possible ; danger of war, yet Ido not abandon all hopes of main-
and, fourthly, it has provided that an arrangement taming peace. (Hear, hear.) Practically, therefore, my
should be come to with respect to affording asylum for lords, whatever my hopes or belief may be, they will
what were called " agitators and revolutionaries" not affect the course of proceeding of the Government.
from different parts of the world. A conference was We shall make all preparation as if war were inevitable.
summoned by Count Buol at Vienna, to which that (Hear, hear.) My lords, war in itself is the cause of
counter-project was submitted. The terms were com- many calamities to mankind ; but it is an additional
pared with those which had been previously approved misfortune that it should interfere with the progress of
by the Conference and transmitted to St. Petersburg, every social improvement, and with all those measures
and it was found they were totally at variance with which most conduce to the welfare of the country.
them. The conference, therefore, determined, and they (Hear, hear.) Bit I cannot admit that the mere appre-
recorded their determination in a protocol, that they hension of war is to prevent us from redeeming the
were unacceptable to the Sultan, and should not be pledge which we have given to Parliament and the coun-
transmitted to Constantinople. (Hear, hear.) That is try, and which we are bound and determined to fulfil.
the answer to my noble friend's question with respect to The Earl of DERBY—I have heard with regret the
the counter-project by Russia. With respect to the statement made by the noble earl at the head of the
other object of Count Orloff's mission, I beg to state
that I have no official papers on the subject, and Government. I heard it with regret,
.ection which I because it con-
that I am not sufficiently informed upon it to make tamed nothing which met the objection
any statement to your lordships with regard to understood the noble earl (Grey) urged against the
it. But I believe I may say this much, that that introduction of a measure of Parliamentary reform
negotiation of Count Orloff's, so far as I am informed, at the resent moment. I did not understand the
had only reference to the relations and the proposed noble earl
mea-
relations between Russia and Austria ; and I believe
sure of re
form simply on the ground that its mere
that the answer given to those proposals was such as e earl to object to the bringing forward of a
was fitting should be given by an independent country. ( introduction would interfere with those military and
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH—I wish to put a naval preparations which the Government, as the execu-
question relating to a matter of fact. It is, whether tive power, is preparing ; but also, because if brought
her Majesty's Ministers have received from the Court of forward now, it will be introduced at a time when it is
Denmark or the Court of Sweden any communication importatt that all party feeling should be placed in obey-
of their intentions with respect to a neutrality or a modi- ante, and that all our attention shouldbe directed to one
fled neutrality in the event of hostilities in the Baltic? object, and one object only—namely, preparing for that
The Earl of CLARENDON—We have received war, which, I believe, the noble earl a'i the head of the
communications from both Sweden and Norway. They Government is the only man in the country who does
have announced to us their intention of preserving a not think imminent. (Hear, and langlter.) At such a
strict and perfect neutrality—(hear)—and they have moment it is that the Government, for the purpose—as
also sent to us a list of those ports and fortified places the noble earl says—of redeeming a pledge given to the
to which they will not admit the ships of war of the country under very different circumstances, seem bent
belligerents. We have sent an answer stating that we on running the risk of involving the House of Commons
approve the system of policy which they propose, and in a serious conflict, and placing parties in a position
the means by which they intend to carry it out, and which it is eminently for the advantage of the country
adding that we shall respect their neutrality, that they should not be forced to assume. (Hear.) The
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH—Have any excep- noble earl (Grey) announced that he placed no great
tions been taken by her Majesty's Government with confidence in her Majesty's present Government, and in
respect to the particular ports enumerated by Sweden I that he very much resembles me—(a laugh)—but I,
I ask this question, inasmuch as I understand that nevertheless, concur with the noble earl in anxiously and
several of those ports are essential to the operations of a earnestly deprecating anything which would lead to the
fleet in the Baltic ; and Russia has ports there while we removal of Ministers at this moment. The noble earl
have none. expressed my sentiments when he described the incon-
The Earl of CLARENDON—No exception has been venience and danger arising from a change of Govern-
taken by us ; but great exception has been taken by meet ; it weakens the hands of the Executive, and
Russia to the system which Sweden has announced. throws uncertainty into the councils of the country, and,
The Earl of DESART.—So far as I can judge, it still therefore, however strong a partisan tie noble earl at
appears from public report that there is some possibility the head of the Government may thick me, and, how-
of peace. I do trust, however that may be, that Rus- ever diametrically I may be opposed to his policy,
sia is not to be permitted to gain another of those diplo- I can assure him I desire to see no change of Ad-
matic victories by which she has acquired a greater ad- ministration now. (Hear, hear.) At all events,
(Mimi of territory within the last century than she has I hope your lordships and the country will give
done by force of arms. If Russia is still willing to ne- ins credit for desiring that all considerations of
gotiate and to accept such propositions as the Sultan party should be abandoned, and that we should unite
would have submitted to some time ago, let her do so ; in doing all that is required for the welfare and honour
but if that is not her intention, and if for a length of of the country. (Hear.) The noble earl (Grey) sug-
time Russia is permitted to retain the Black Sea as a mare Bested the possible effect which might be produced by
elausum I can only say that you put powers into her the reform measure not being satisfactory to the country,
hands which have long been the source of contention, and pointed to consequences involving either a dissolu-
and out of which will probably originate fresh contention of Parliament or the resignation of Parliament or
tions, which may draw this country into a war which the resignation of the Ministry. But suppose the mea-
she may not be prepared to meet. I trust I shall be sure be satisfactory to the country—an extensive mea-
excused for offering these remarks ; but I feel strongly sure we are bound to presume it will be or it would not
that this should not be allowed to be a triumph instead be worth all the turmoil and trouble which will be
of a punishment to Russia, after the calamities which caused by it. Well, if it be satisfactory, and adopted
she has brought upon her subjects, the great obstruc- by Parliament, how, in such a case, could a Parliament
tions which she has occasioned to commeece, and the condemned by its own declaration continue to sit and
near embroilment in a war in which she has involved all advise the Crown, and carry on the business of the
Europe. (Hear, hear.) country ? (Hear.) Thus, whether the measure be re-
Earl FITZWILLIAM—Is the house to understand jetted or adopted, it will be productive of inconvenience,
that my noble friend has or has not any papers relative and must lead to the dismissal of the Commons at no
to the mission of Count Orloff to Vienna ? distant period. Now, I ask the Government whether—
The Earl of CLARENDON—I distinctly stated that setting party considerations aside—it will conduce to
I have no papers. As soon as I obtain any information the welfare of the country to have a dissolution of Par-
I shall lay it upon the table, using, of course, my own liament, either now or in the course of the present ses-
discretion as to how far it may be proper to publish sion ? Can it take place with due regard to the in-
papers which relate to matters that do not concern this terests and safety of the country? The objection to the
country. At present. I have none, proceedings contemplated by her Majesty's Government
THE REFORM BILL. is not so much that it will prevent the introduction of
the navy aenfdarn9yestimaftes as that it will divert the
Earl GREY—In asking the question of the noble earl
to be directrer
at the head of Her Majesty's Government of which I oatutaeinittiomnainly Parliament
by
subject to which it
gave notice last night, I have only a few words to say in when all ought to be acting harmonious concert in
in
yexcitmpary feeling
explanation of my reason for doing so. Your lordships promoting the defence of the country and preparing for
are aware from the votes that notice has been given in war. I concur with thef noble earl (Grey) in deprecat-
ing the ihtirtoadeudctieoxneiote apamretasure which is sure to raise
the other House of Parliament that a bill upon the sub -
be taken hay
ject of Parliamentary reform is to be proposed on Mon- what course slr
may
day next, on behalf of the Government. That notice those who are not in the habit of goyim-
tahnei T4s,esuiteiees(; f
Commons
mk loos:
snhoyt
giving their confidence
was given at the beginning of the session, but since then to the Government. The noble earl and his colleagues
I have heard from persons of the most various political
ihaanygeb) certainlyna ul e
laugh)—namely,
determinedfe
rp on
itohnr throwing i
joining
ni n g
which it will reqtuhretegmeat
temptation
virtue to resist—(a
ere ventumreo
opinions, of the most conflicting views as to the propriety out a temptation
iof any further reform, such a unanimous concurrence in verse to the Government on a i
to
or aeepxepsri voteet
fseas
nd
a;
fsrtanvkitlayl
the opinion which I ventured to express to your lord- with respect to which defeat would be fatal.") Many of
ships on the debate upon the address, that this is an in- those who may not
the
essent from the,measure itself will
doubtless object
butto I h time and opportunity selected for
expedient time to bring forward a question of reform, at
its introduction,
all events until those measures of national defence which
may be required by the possible outbreak of war are hope that, however reckless the conduet of the
be in throwing before Govern-
completed, that I really felt confident that the Govern- ment may . the country such a
tation at such a ma
subject of op. Indent, a sense of what
ment would postpone that notice unless they should be blic interests
is due to the pu public welfare will
able to assure us that the probability of peace being dis- ts of the an--
turbed was at an end, and that we might rely upon tran- prevent the opponents of Government from falling
into the snare which it
toap,-?ears the noble earl and his
quillity being preserved. Your lordships must be aware
after what you have heard to-night, that no such hope- colleagues are offering
be
dheem. (Ironical cheers.) I
trust that nothingwill —I trust the House of
of preserving peace can be indulged in. Indeed, what the ne
the noble earl has told us this evening of the temper Commons will no t afford noble. earl and his colleagues
which has been exhibited by Russia makes the probe,-escaping from the diffic •
a chance of . difficulties of their present
bility of war even stronger than ever. Under these cir- position by rejecting the Reform Bill. However the
cumstances, therefore, I am anxious to know whether conduct of the Government may be deprecated and de-
the Government really mean to submit to Parliament nounced in introducing it, I hope the measure • lf will
itself
a measure for the alteration of the constitution of be received with the respect which is due to all commu-
the House of Commons before those other measures mcations addressed to Parliament by the Crown, and
which are essential to provide for the defence that we, who are the opponents of the Government, will
of the country have been considered and dis- not be parties to any party
moment
viswihoen separating the two
posed of. I cannot help remarking to your lordships sides of the house at a
the when
lagreeruent between
them is most desirable, until Government shall call
that there is naturally greatanxiety in the public mindwhich it would
on this subject. Every one wishes to see the navy and upon xis in a manner
~N
~ e impossible to
army estimates and other measures brought forward, and evade to pronounce Ay or oon the principle of
hear.)
especially that measure for extending the militia force, the measure.
(HeaCIANRICARDE I
which is at present only applicable to England, to the The Marquis of. heard an ob-
t importance fall from the noble earl at
other divisions of the United Kingdom. (Hear, hear.) servation of great importance
I understood
There is a very great objection to having the discussion the head of the Government,re we not now at the noble
upon those matters interfered with by another measure earl to say that not only
admitteda war tott7ar, but also
of the nature to which I have referred ; and I beg to call that he by no means
from what we heard e inevitable,
your attention to the fact that the delay may not be This is so differentask
theo a former
it necessary tonoble earl
confined merely to a single night, or even to the several evening, that I feel
at this moment an
nights occupied by an adjourned debate, but it may be a whether he isaware that
to the state of ?:enegotiations
stilities and
delay of a much more serious character, because I pre- are going on to put endahnema_
j esty's speech from t.he throne,
sums that so great a measure as one of Parliamentary warfare referred to in
drto be prevaili •
ng in an important
reform is not to be launched by the Government without and popularly believe
the full intention of proceeding with the consideration of part of Europe.
ERDEEN—
A state of warfare exists
it without unnecessary delay. Looking, however, at The Earl of AB
Porte; but I have yet to learn
the great variety and conflict of opinions upon this sub- between Russia and the
with
at war any Power. I war
ject which now prevail in the country, it is possible that that this country is
but too probable • but say
, I say it is
the Government may fail in proposing such a measure as may be, unfortunately,l 1 .
as peace remains I will not
will meet with the approbation of Parliament. Are we, not inevitable, and as S
%Lining it ; and, please God,
then, in the midst of preparations for war, to have a abandon the hope of mai m
art to maintain'
dissolution' of Parliament or a resignation of the present no effort shall be spared 0n_..y..g0
__ it.
DE Precisely; and it
Ministry ? (Hear, hear.) lam not one of those who The Marquis of CLANltfuslu
eat my question, which the noble
profess any unbounded confidence in the present advisers is for that reason I repeal k
the noble earl whether he
of her Majesty, but I own that I should look forward to earl has not answered. I
that any negotiations are on foot
their resignation at this moment with feelings of alarm is aware at this moment,
of warfare alluded to in her
and apprehension. (Hear.) It would be impossible for for terminating the state
throne on the opening of Par-
a change of Administration to take place without some Majesty's speech from the
ifferent iu its tone from Par.
disturbance of the reoular march of the Government. liainent—a speech very d • ,
It is quite true that when the members ' •
mbers of an Ad ininis- which the noble earl has addressed to your lordships to-
tration r • esign they continue to perform the functions night?
—I have no el=ection
of their respective offices until their successors The Earl of ABERDEEN s on to
are appointed, and thus there is no • t:
actual interruption answer the noble marquis's question. The negotiations
last under consideration have
of the most necessary functions of the executive Govern- relating to the proposition
v.
a Wh t •
a may arise
ment • but we also know that from. the very day on certainly come to a close at ienn .
which' the resignation of her Ma•est's advisers is ac- hereafter lam unable to say at present. (Some laughter
cepted until their successors are actually installed in from the Opposition.)
office more than half of the real - that is no answer.
Lord BEAUMONT.—SureIy .
power .
vernment is destroyed. It is utter) ble when (Hear, hear.) The 4uestion pot by the. noble marquis
y impossi oing on at Vienna,
the reins of power are about tohands f did not relate solely to what was g
pass from the o are now nego-
one set of men t'o those of another—when it is uncer- but its object was to ascertain whether we
) I understood that
tain whether the measures in progress will not be entirely tiating for peace anywhere. (Hear.
and, as we are
reversed— under such Circumstances it is, Iutterly i negotiations were completely closed,
say, Porte--as we are pledged
impossible that the GoTernment can be carried on with I Pledged to support the Sublime For

HOUSE OF COMMONS—(YESTERDAY.)
The SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock.
NEW MEMBERS.

Mr. R. CLIVE took the oaths and his seat for South
Shropshire ; Col. HERBERT took the oaths and his sea t
for Ludlow.

PETITIONS.

Sir J. WALMESLEY presented a petition from
the Corporation of Leicester against the recommenda-
tion of a select committee of the house for consolidating
borough and counties into districts for police purposes.
Mr. MIALL presented a petition from Rochdale pray-
ing for energetic measures against Russia in favour of
Turkey.
Mr. LOWE presented a petition from Kidderminster
in favour of reformatory schools.
Mr. P. MILES presented a petition from a parish in
Somerset against the sale of intoxicating drinks on Sun-
days.

GREEK CLAIMS.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL, by command of her Ma-
jesty, brought up a further correspondence respecting
the rights and privileges of the Greek Church in Turkey
The correspondence was ordered to lie upon the table,

RUSSIA AND TURKEY
Sir H. WILLOUGIIBY gave notice that, on Mon-
day, he should ask the noble lord the member for the
City of London a question relative to the Turkish papers,
commencing with those which were signed by Count
Buol. The hon. baronet took that opportunity of asking
whether the treaty of Unkiar Skelessi could be pro-

duced ?
Lord J. RUSSELL replied in the affirmative.
THE AMERICAN MINISTER.
Mr. ROEBUCK drew attention to the fact that the
American Minister had been unable to attend the open-
ing of Parliament, owing to the regulation which pre-
vailed that none but persons in full dress were admitted
to the body of the House of Lords. He wished to know
if the Government approved of that regulation.
Lord J. RUSSELL said the card of admission sent
to the American Minister was the ordinary card issued
by the Lord Chamberlain on such occasions, and it bore
the usual words stating that the bearer of the card must
appear in Court dress. The American Minister did not
make any application to the Foreign-office on the sub-
ject, but simply contented himself with not attending
the opening of Parliament. The Emperor of the French
had allowed the American Minister to present his cre-
dentials in plain dress, but at the time it was intimated
to the Minister, that upon all future occasions when he
was invited to the fetes of the Court he would be ex-
pected to attend in the ordinary Court costume. He
did not, under these circumstances, apprehend that any
inconvenience was likely to arise from the regulation
which prevented the American Minister from attending
the opening of our Parliament.
RETURN OF THE COMBINED FLEETS TO
CONSTANTINOPLE.
- -

Mr. FRENCH wished to ask the noble lord the
member for the City of London, if he could give any
explanation as to why the combined fleets had returned
to Constantinople from the Black Sea ?
Lord J. RUSSELL said some time ago the admirals
commanding the combined fleets were !desired by the
English and French Ambassadors to go into the Black
Sea, which they accordingly did, and the combined fleets
stood in Sinope Bay for some days.' (Hear, hear.)
The British admiral then wrote to say that he found
it would be dangerous to remain any longer in
that anchorage, inasmuch as if the united squadrons
were to remain in the Black Sea for two months, it
would pave the way towards promoting any wish which
the Emperor of Russia might entertain that the
British and French fleets should be destroyed. The
Admiral, therefore, thought it to be his duty to return
to Constantinople with the view of sending steam-
ships from time to time into the Black Sea in order to
obtain the command of that Sea, which the British and
French Governments had ordered the two admirals to
do. He believed this conduct of the admiral was at
variance with the instructions of the British and French
Ambassadors ; but at the same time the Government
thought that his explanation of it deserved their appro-
bation, as well as that of the country at larg©. (Hear.)
SAVINGS BANKS.
TheCHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, in reply
to a question from Mr. Wyse, said he intended to bring
in a measure this session for the better management of
savings banks.
INCOME-TAX IN IRELAND.
Colonel DUNNE wished to ask the Chancellor of the
Exchequer whether he had adopted means of ascertain-
ing the amount of income tax paid by persons residing
in England for property situated in Ireland, and the
amount of income tax deducted by public offices in Eng-
land from the salaries or half-pay or pensions of persons
residing in Ireland.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
he had no means of ascertaining the amount of incomeetaz

paid by persons residing in England for property situated
in Ireland, because, in regard to real property, no cog-
nisance was taken of the party who might own the pro-
perty ; nor hal they had any means of information as to
the other part of the hon. and gallant member's ques-
tion. With regard to income-tax paid under schedule
D, the information required could of course be given.