The Sun.
London, England, 1853-02-26 00:00:00

THE -STTN, LONDON, SATURDAY' EVENING, FEBRUARY 26, 1853.

completed. There was one quota for last year, and another
for this year.
Sir G. PECHELL would like to know the exact state
the militia was in.
Air. EVELYN regretted that the noble lord would not
afford any encouragement to the formation of volunteer
corps. He believed that in Surrey a very efficient regi-
ment might be raised in that way without costing a far-
thing expense.
Lord PALMERSTON did not undervalue volunteer
corps, but, being pressed, would admit he could not con-
sider them as efficient, or nearly as efficient as the militia.
That was felt at the beginning of the last war. In 1803
there was a large amount of volunteer force, but after a
couple of years that force was diminished, and the local
militia was substituted in its stead. The committee would
just consider who formed these volunteer corps. Trades-
men, professional men, clerks, apprentices, men accustom-
ed to a comfortable existence, and to take care of them-
selves, not men accustomed to rough it. (Hear, and a
laugh.) And if these men were called out to live in camp,
to sleep in the fields, and to rise with their clothes ringing
wet in the morning, they would all be in hospital in a
week. Besides, what was to become of the business of the
country if men, the most closely connected with it, were to
be taken away from their homes and business, and carried
to the coast to servo i.n the army? Volunteer corps might
be very useful for the police of the district, or no doubt in
sea port towns, as evidence of national spirit, but he did
not think, as part of the present system of military organi-
sation, that they could reckon on a volunteer force with the
same confidence as on a militia regiment. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. WALPOLE observed that in about three months
not less than 35,000 men were raised for the militia, the
most extraordinary instance of recruiting an effective mili-
tary force, as he trusted the militia would become, which
could be found in the annals of this country. (Hear.)
The object of the militia was to raise a permanent force,
and a force on which they could permanently rely. In the
event of war, they could never rely on a volunteer force
with the same confidence they could rely on a force consist-
ing
of men who could not retire from the service when they
pleased. The discipline, too, of a volunteer force was not
so effective, because it was not continued for so long a
time. The Government which preceded the Government
of Lord Derby were applied to to sanction the enrolment
of four volunteer regiments. When he succeeded to office
he wrote to say they must submit to all the regulations
prescribed by the act of Parliament and also to inspection.
Three out of the four declined to be embodied on these
encourage-
ment to induce the Government to go on and sanction
ve task of raising a militia. (Hear.)
hear.) That was not sufficient louniretarya; corps when they had undertaken the more
terms.meffoeermore
iv
Sir DE LACY EVANS remarked that the militia
would cost a considerable sum, whereas a voluntary corps
would cost nothing.
Mr. HUME was still dissatisfied. He could not recon-
cile the statements that volunteers were useless, and the
proposal now to vote 88,0001. for volunteer corps.
Lord PALMERSTON thought a voluntary cavalry force
was useful, but that a voluntary infantry force was of very
little use at all. The persons who composed volunteer
corps were totally different from those who composed the
militia. The bulk of the privates in the militia were fitted
for hardships, and for military duty, and were not engaged
in ordinary business. If they carried away to other parts
of the country those who were engaged in the daily busi-
ness of the towns where they resided, it would put an end
to the business of the country.
Mr HUME.said the noble lord was now very solicitous
about the business of the country, but on a former occasion
he talked of their being plundered and destroyed and all
business suspended. The noble lord seemed to him to be
blowing hot and cold. (Laughter.)
Sir G. PECHELL was still anxious to know the exact
state of the militia force.
The vote was then agreed to.
On a vote of 20,2501. as rewards for distinguished ser-
vices,

Mr. LINDSAY asked if the office of Warden of the
Tower was to be abolished ?
Mr. S. HERBERT said all existing offices which were
sinecures would be abolished.
A sum of 55,0001. for the army pay of general officers ;
A sum of 50,0001. for the full pay for retired officers ;
A sum of 358,0001. for half-pay and military allowances ;
A sum of 34,6281. for foreign half-pay ;
A sum of 117,6371. for widows' pensions ;
And a sum of 79,5001. for compassionate allowances—
were all agreed to.
On the vote of 28,1491. for Chelsea and Kilmainham
Hospitals,
Mr. HUME observed that the abolition of Kilmainham
Hospital was recommended by the committee appointed
some years ago.
Mr. S. HERBERT said the recommendation was being
gradually carried out, as no new appointments were made.
Mr. H. DRUMMOND and Colonel SIBTHORP dis-
sented from the suggestion of the committee, and hoped
the hospital would be kept up for the poor Irish soldiers.
Mr. HUME said the recommendation of the committee
was in accordance with the wishes of Irish members. If
they allowed to the Irish soldiers in their own homes the
same amount expended in Kilmainham Hospital, they
would be much better off. He did not object to the vote
for the purpose of saving the money.
The vote was then agreed to, as were two other votes,
one of 1,235,8001. for out-pensioners, and the other of
36,0001. for superannuation allowances.
This was the last of the army estimates.
The house then resumed, and the Chairman reported
progress, and asked leave to sit again on Monday.
METROPOLITAN IMPROVEMENTS (REPAYMENT
OUT OF CONSOLIDATED FUND) BILL.
On the motion for the second reading of this bill,
Mr. BLACKETT hoped that some explanation would be
given of the nature of this measure, .which had been said
to be a bill for paying off charges on the Crown lands, by
payments out of the London-bridge Approaches Fund. He
must say, that he could not find any explanation of its
nature and objects in the bill itself, and half-a-dozen
learned members of the house, to whom he had shown it,
had said that it was neither Queen's nor lawyer's English.
(Laughter.) The 12th clause was simple nonsense. But it
appeared that the measure was likely to affect the coal in-
terest ; and he thought, therefore, that the second reading
ought to be postponed until the coal-trade committee of
Newcastle and the north of England should have had an
opportunity of expressing their opinions upon it. (Hear.)
Sir W. MOLES WORTH hoped that his hon. friend
would not oppose the second reading of the bill. Not a
single farthing of the expense would be charged by it upon
the coal fund:
Lord SEYMOUR thought that the bill was a very desir-
able one. It did not in the least degree affect the coal fund.
Mr. PHILLIMORE said that the bill was simply unin-
telligible, and he hoped that the Government would not
press it to a second reading for the present.
Mr. INGHAM said there existed some misapprehensions
in the North of England on the subject of the bill,
which he hoped might be removed on its passage through
committee.
Mr. J. WILSON would briefly state what the object of
the bill was. Some years ago a commission had been ap-
pointed for the purpose of executing certain improvements
in the metropolis. Large sums of money had to be bor-
rowed, and the commissioners had applied to the Bank of
England for a loan. The Bank had been unwilling to lend
money on the security of the commissioners, and it had
been proposed to give the Bank the security of the land
revenues. Interest had been paid for many years out of
the proceeds of the land revenues, but subsequently it had
been found that this was a very onerous and expensive way
of raising money. The object of the present bill was to
enable the land revenues to be discharged from the obliga-
tion which they now laboured under, and that the
sums borrowed should be paid out of the balance now
in the Exchequer, which were at present yielding no in-
terest. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. DISRAELI said that considering the great talents of
the present Government, he had to express his regret that
this bill had been brought forward in a manner so unsatis-
factory. It appeared to be the intention of the bill to ter-
minate what had originally been a very improvident
arrangement, by a method which, however desirable it
might be in a merely financial respect, would yet result in
diminishing the balances in the Exchequer. He should
like to know to what amount the balances in the Exche-
quer would be diminished by this arrangement. It was
of great importance that the amount of those balances
should be sustained. That was a consideration which the
house ought to entertain, and they must not consider that
they were terminating a pressure while they were imposing
a charge of a far more injurious character. It certainly
appeared to him that this bill had been drawn up in a very
obscure manner, and that it was founded on a principle
which the house ought to look at with very great suspi-
cion. They ought at least to know to what extent the ba-
lances in the Exchequer would be affected. (Hear.)
Mr. WILSON said that the amount for which the ba-
lances of the Exchequer would now in the- first place be
charged would be 960,0001., which, with interest, would
amount to more than 1,000,0001., and the present state, of
the Exchequer rendered the charge rather convenient than
otherwise. In the present year there was an income from
the coal fund which was applicable to these purposes, of
80,0001., and all duties arising from that source in future
years would be applied to the payment of what was now
taken from the Exchequer.
Mr: PHINN said that this bill was discreditable to the
house. If any question should arise upon it, there was no
lawyer who could tell what the decision would be.
Mr. DISRAELI begged to repeat the question which he
had already put. The house had a right to know what was
the amount of the balances in the Exchequer, to what
amount they would be reduced by this measure, and in
what period the sum taken away from the Exchequer
would be repaid.
Mr. WILSON said that the balances in the Exchequer
were about 9,000,000 sterling, which would be reduced by
1,000,0001., or thereabouts, by this measure. This sum
would be repaid by the accruing duties on coals, which
amounted in the present year to 80,0001.
Mr. HENLEY quite agreed with the hon. and learned
gentleman (Mr. Phinn), who said that this bill was so
drawn that it was impossible for anybody to understand
what it provided or what it meant.
Mr. WILSON quite admitted that this bill was un-
usually difficult to understand, but he believed this arose
not so much from the drawing of the bill as from the ex-
traordinary complication of the arrangement itself, which
was discreditable to the management from the beginning
to the end. Under the ads of Parliament on the subject,
the coal tax was charged to the Government not only for
the principal sum of the expenditure for metropolitan im-
, provements,.but also for the interest at the rate of 5 per
cent.; and he believed that there was now due to the Go-
vernment under the act a sum of about 900,0001. as princi-
pal, and 130,0001. more for interest.
Mr. WALPOLE thought it would be remembered that
the Chancellor of the Exchequer (who was now in his place)
when he introduced the bill, explained that its details
were complicated and difficult to understand ; and, there-
fore, he (Mr. Walpole) would suggest to the hon. gentle-
man who now had the charge of the measure, that it would
be better to postpone the second' reading till Monday, in
order that the house might receive an explanation respect-
ing the bill, for really-nobody who read it could understand
it as it stood.
Sir ROBERT FERGUSON hoped that an explanation
would be given of the security that was given for this
money, as the bill referred to other acts, and the matter
was unintelligible to everybody.
Mr. WILSON said that the details of the bill would be
explained when it was in committee.
Sir W. JOLLIFFE thought the bill ought to be post-
poned,oafntdlhtehcaotaalntaxin.quiHryo
unshdoeurlsdtoobde
tihnasttitthuetesdeciunritotythaenature t
present rested upon the coal tax and the land revenues of
the Crown conjointly, and that the moment this bill passed
the whole liability would be borne by the coal tax alone.
Mr. ALCOCK also urged the postponement of the bill
till the matter could be better explained.
Thequestio was then put and the house divided. The
numbers
were—
For the second reading
Against it

102
55
. -47

Majority
The bill was then read a second time.
OATHS IN CHANCERY BILL.
The bill was read a second time.