The Sun.
London, England, 1853-05-11 00:00:00

THE COMMITTEE ON DOCKYARD PRO-
MOTIONS AND APPOINTMENTS.
(THIS DAY.)

EXAMINATION OF MR. DISRAELI.

The members of the committee re-assembled this
morning.

Mr. Disraeli, M.P., who has been frequently referred
to in the course of these proceedings was then called,
and stated as follows never had any conversation
with Mr. Stafford, or any one else, in reference to the
patronage of the Government of Lord Derby. Mr. Staf-
ford never consulted me upon it, and I never interfered,
because it did not come within my department. I will
state the real cause of the difficulties that have ensued
upon this subject. When the late Government came into
office, the Duke of Northumberland, with a high sense
of honour and duty to the profession of which he is a
member, was most anxious that a Board of Admiralty
should be formed free from politics or party influence.
There was consequently no obstacle raised to his grace's
wishes, and a Board of Admiralty was formed, of which
his grace was a distinguished member, as a naval officer
—his object in the formation of it being an efficient
establishment for that great branch of the service. The
consequence of this was, that there was a want of that
good understanding between the Board of Admiralty
and the House of Commons which prevailed in for-
mer Governments before Lord Derby came into
office, when the Board of Admiralty was represented in
the House of Commons by the First Lord and the First
Naval Lord. There was in the House of Commons,
under the present Government, the First Lord and First
Naval Lord, and consequently there was a good under-
standing. On Mr. Stafford devolved the representation
of the feelings of the late Board of Admiralty in the
House of Commons, and he was the only civilian there
connected with it. He took the place of the board there
in the absence of the superior officers. Mr. Stafford
entered the House of Commons inexperienced in his
duties, and under circumstances of extreme difficulties.
I may also add that the consequence of this was, that there
was not that sympathy between the late Board of Admi-
ralty and the House of Commons that was necessary I
have no kesitation in saying that, in my opinion, the
chief difficulty of Mr. Stafford in the House of Commons
arose through having no other member of the Board of
Admiralty there to support him. The Board of Admi-
ralty only looked to the efficiency of the service, and not
to questions of patronage. Their attention was directed
to matters of quite another kind. If the board felt it
their duty to speak to the Secretary of the Admiralty,
they would do so in the same manner that the pre-
sent Leader of the House of Commons might speak to
Admiral Parker. If the Secretary of the Admiralty did
his duty, and attended according to the instructions
given to him, he would be able to answer as leader in
the House of Commons any questions, if listened to
without jealousy ; but that harmony that should exist
between that branch of the Government and the House
of Commons could only exist when a large number of
that branch are members of the House of Commons.

The Chairman— Then am I to understand that har-
mony did not exist between the late Government and
the House of Commons.

Mr. Disraeli—There did not, and I may refer to one
instance where the Secretary of the Admiralty felt it to be
his duty, and represented to me that the expenses of
this branch were exceeding the estimates, and, in conse-
quence, I felt it to be my duty to attend to it, and
ordered a weekly account to be sent in. This account
was accordingly sent in to me at the Treasury, and the
result of it was to show that the expenses had been well
regulated. As Chancellor of the Exchequer, and as the
officer of the Crown responsible for the expenses of the
country entirely, I had, therefore, the control over
the expenditure. A feeling of jealousy appeared
to exist as to the Board of Admiralty, as regarded the
estimates to which Admiral Parker had referred. This
was looked upon as an interference by the House of
Commons. I told Mr. Stafford, in doing his duty, to
conciliate as much as possible, and in a conversation I
had with him in the House of Commons, I told him to
conciliate as much as possible with all officers, and I
found on the part of Mr. Stafford a ready desire to fol-
low the advice that I had given him.
Sir H. Davie—Mr. Stafford has stated that he was so
pressed by Lord Derby and the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer on the subject of the dockyard appointments, as his
friends were not satisfied that all the patronage should
be left in the hands of their opponents. Was that so ?
Mr. Disraeli—The late Government never used any,
nor did it ever enter into their consideration to use
patronage for election purposes. They experienced, in
the first instance, great difficulties, and they had to con-
tend with a spirit of jealousy, which arose from the
cause which I have expressed; but that appeared to me
to wear off.

The Chairman—Did Mr. Stafford tell you that his
difficulties were increased in consequence of the preced-
ing Government having filled up all the appointments,
and given all the promotions to their political partisans?
Mr. Disraeli—l never went into details about that,
but I do remember on one occasion he mentioned to me

that he was placed in great difficulty with respect
to the Surveyor of . the Navy, who is a permanent
civil officer of the Crown. The advice I gave to
him was, that he should treat all the permanent
civil officers of the Crown with the greatest respect,
and I may say that when I went to the Treasury I found
all the servants there of extreme liberal principles, having
been appointed by former Governments, and of course
with opinions hostile to the then Government ; but I
treated them with confidence, and I am bound, and
it is but justice to them to say, that they served
me most faithfully. I advised Mr. Stafford to treat the
Surveyor of the Navy in the same way, and I believe be
acted on my advice. The only question brought before
me as to the Surveyor-General of the Navy besides, was
when he consulted me in the House of Commons on re-
ceiving a letter which Sir Baldwin Walker had written
to the Duke of Northumberland, which he showed to me,

though I cannot say whether it was the letter or a
copy, which lie brought to me as a proof that he
had not succeeded in establishing a good under-
standing between himself and the Surveyor of
the Navy. 'When I read the letter I felt much
annoyed, and I said if this is the tone in which his
overtures were to be received, that Sir Baldwin Walker
had better resign. Mr. Stafford made some objection
to this, stating that it was the wish of the Duke of
Northumberland that the matter should be set right. I
told him that rather than remain on hostile terms, that

he had better see him ; and I believed that he
had acted on my advice. He called on me in
May in Downing-street, when I asked him if there was
a good understanding in his office, and he said that
there was a perfect good understanding between him and
Sir Baldwin Walker. I had nothing to do with the in-
structions, and had never brought before me any ques-
tions of promotions or appointments in the dockyard,
and never interfered in any way whatever.
The examination was proceeding when our report left.