The Sun.
London, England, 1853-08-05 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, AUGUST 5, 1853.

thought the subject of the promotion of colonial officers ,
was deserving of attention. Lord Grey had set a very good
example in this respect, which he (Sir J. Pakington) had
very humbly endeavoured to follow. Still he thought there
ought to be a more distinct understanding that the princi-
ple of promotion should be regularly acted upo 1 with re-
spect to colonial governors. Nothing could be more un-
certain than the course pursued at present. A gentleman
was appointed governor of a colony for a term of six years;
and at the end of that period he had no security whatever
that he would remain in the service of the Crown ; but,
having abandoned his profession, perhaps, in the first in-
stance, to become a governor, he was left without employ-
ment after his recall, and perhaps had no income to fall
back upon. He (Sir J. Pakington) would, therefore, sug-
gest to the noble lord, whether the Government ought not
to consider if it would not be for the improvement of our
system of governing the colonies, that the principle of
promotion should be acted upon more than it had hereto-
fore been ; and also that a scale of retiring pensions should
be introduced for the benefit of colonial governors leaving
the public service, and returning to this country.
a r
s Having
thrown out these suggestions, and pointed out, he
bound
indicated to
by
the extent
Government,
0 vto e r whichnni ent , hh ee
wasce) caner rr eyd
tien
at
dh_
de
course _
that in one respect, he must dissent from that course, as
being open to considerable censure. The unfortunate state
of affairs in Jamaica had been well known for a very long
period of time, and yet the noble lord had not announced
to the house the course which the Government intended
to take until the month of August, 1853, and the noble
duke, in another place, did not make his similar statement
mHene
ttheonutegrhetdtuhpeat,n at the
nteimpeartwheefneturheeperlee--
sunenttilGjoulvyern.
erftehnetliyeladnedmeafnjdaemdaiimamTedhieaetrie
saiettehandtiaioenteasd
tn
forahi ae l c rit
chambersi e a policy
considerable
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period, and
etfwaellenretvheentuweo.
o tl la
He did not wish to speak with the slightest disrespect of
Sir C. Grey, to whom indeed he must pay a tribute for the
ability he bad displayed in the administration of public
affairs ; but he must say that he thought the late governor
of Jamaica had been led into some indiscretion in the lan-
guage he had addressed to the Assembly. Terms of mu-
tual reproach passed between the governor and the Assem-
bly, and the governor held out the threat that the impri-
soned felons in the island would be let loose ; and, indeed,
in some degree, his threat was carried out, and social dis-
organisation ensued. Now, he thought her Majesty's Go-
vernment might have have averted the whole of these evils
if they had done in January or February last what they
had stated they intended to do in July. When the hon.
member for Westbury (Mr. Wilson)' in December last,
madewhen he
a motion in glorification of the policy of 1846, and
(Sir J. Pakington) endeavoured to show, he be-
lieved successfully, that there was very little ground for
boasting, in that debate the state of Jamaica was fully
elucidated, and the dispatches of Sir C. Grey in 1851 and
1852 gave ample warning to the Government of what was
about to happen. Sir C. Grey had also declared that he
looked forward with alarm to the period when, in July,
1854, the equalisation of the sugar duties would takeplace.
All these warnings and facts were before the Government,
and furnished reasons why they ought not to have lost so
much time in devising their measures. Therefore, while
agreeing to a great extent in the course which the Go-
vernment intended to pursue, he yet certainly thought
that they had much to answer for in not turning their at-
tention to the state of Jamaica at an earlier period, when
he must say that everything had been prepared for them
by their predecessors to enable them to act when they ac-
ceded to office. To one other subject he must advert,—
namely, the question of refining sugar in bond. He had
heard with great regret the announcement which the
Chancellor of the Exchequer had made upon this subject
in the course of his Budget speech. When he (Sir J.
Pakington) was a member of the Government, they an-
nounced their intention of conceding this important boon
to the West Indies, the value of which he would not over-
rate when he said it would be equivalent to a differential
duty of ls. 6d. or 2s. per hundredweight. Considering
the competition to which the produce of the West India
colonies was exposed from slave-grown sugar, this be-
came a very important question. When, in July, 1851,
they should arrive at a nominal equality in the sugar
duties, if Parliament did not grant some such privi-
lege as that of the power of refiing sugar in bond, it
would positively give a differential duty of ls. 6d. or 2s.
per cwt. in favour of slave-grown sugar, as compared with
the free-grown produce of our West Indian colonies. He
understood that there was a strong feeling among the sugar
refiners of the metropolis against such a change, and hav-
ing established something tantamount to a monopoly for
themselves, they objected to the alteration, and raised the
bugbear of danger to the revenue. Now he said that the
matter was so essential to the welfare of the West Indies,
and so indispensable to the carrying out of the great expe-
riment resolved upon by Parliament, that they were bound
to concede this boon, or if they refused it, to have it proved
to a demonstration that the concession would be really
dangerous to the revenue. He went even further, and said
that if they could not consistently extend the boon in this
shape, he would ask Parliament to oive them an equiva-
lent. He was much obliged to the house for the attention
with which it had listened to them. He could assure them
that he had spoken in no factious spirit, but with a sincere
desire to give to the proposals of the noble lord the fairest
consideration in his power, and, as he already said, he
thought the proposals themselves were well and wisely
adapted to the end which the Government had in view.
Mr. J. HUME said that Sir H Barkly left Guiana after
a most satisfactory administration of the affairs of the
colony, and ho (Mr. Hume) was bound to say that the new
Governor of Jamaica was a bold man to undertake such a
responsible office under such difficult circumstances. He
thought the Government were doing perfectly right in
making the proposed experiment for a period of three years,
and he hoped that Sir H Barkly would receive the support
of the house and the Government at home, in the discharge
of his arduous duties. He (Mr. Hume) certainly gave him
his cordial support, and he trusted that the trial would be
eminently successful. With regard to the general question,
he (Mr. Hume) hoped that the Government would before
long bring the whole subject of our colonial establishments
under the consideration of Parliament.

Mr. JOHN M'GREGOR said that, representing as he
did the largest interest in the island of Jamaica, he wished
to state that he approved of every word that had fallen
from the noble lord. Never, in his opinion, was a consti-
tution so much abused as that of Jamaica had been ; and
the misery of that island he thought was, in a great mea-
sure, attributable to the manner in which money had been
voted and spent by the colony. He thought the constitu-
tion of Jamaica should be assimilated, as far as possible,
to the constitution now established in Canada. He hoped
that the Chancellor of the Exchequer would take into his
serious consideration the question whether the sugars of
our West and East India colonies ought not to be allowed
to be refined in bond.

The subject then dropped.
OCEAN PENNY POSTAGE.

Mr. MILNER GIBSON said that many petitions had
been presented to that house from different parts of the
United Kingdom, and also from Australia, Canada, the
West Indies, and other colonies, praying for the establish-
ment of a cheap and uniform system of colonial and inter-
national postage. He had intended to move for a com-
mittee to inquire whether there ought not to be an ocean
rate of penny postage, so that the transmission of letters
from any part of the United Kingdom to parts beyond
seas where British mail packets touched should not cost
the public more than ld. for each letter; but he wished to
explain that, the Government having submitted a proposal
for reducing and making uniform, the rate of postage to
the consideration of the colonies, and the session being now
so near a close, he would not persevere with his motion at
present, but give notice that he would move for a select
committee to inquire into the subject early next session,
when he hoped to receive the support of her Majesty's
Government. Nothing could be more anomalous than
the present state of the scale of oversew postage. In the
United States of America a letter might be carried 3,000
miles, from one part of the Union to the other, for lid., and
in this country the charge of conveyance from one end of
the United Kingdom to the other was ld. ; but the cost of
transmission across the seas was 9id. When a deputation
of the friends of the ocean penny postage scheme waited
upon the present Prime Minister, the noble earl said that
if the shipowners would undertake the carriage of letters
at the uniform rate of ld., he believed the objection to the
plan would cease. He was prepared to state that an offer
had been made by the Glasgow and New York Steam
Packet Company, to carry letters across the sea for the
British Government, at the rate of ld. each, the terms
which the noble earl at the head of the Government said
would induce them to accede to the wishes of the deputa-
tion. Bearing on this subject, there were a variety of
existing treaties and postal conventions with foreign coun-
tries, which would be required to be carefully considered,
and which would render the appointment of a committee
expedient. It should not be forgotten that the great emi-
gration which had lately taken place rendered the corre-
spondence between the working classes in this country and
their friends in foreign lands very extensive. (Hear.)
Their relations in the United States, Canada, and Austra-
lia, frequently rent letters containing money for their poor
relations left behind ; and it was stated on one occasion by
Mrs. Chisholm, that in one case a letter arrived from Aus-
tralia, addressed to a poor woman, who was then an in-
mate of a workhouse in this country. The postage came
to three shillings, and the person having no means of pay-
ing it, the letter was returned to the colony, though it
actually contained the sum of 251. for her support. He
hoped they would be permitted to have a committee on the
subject early next session to enter into the whole question,
and trusted he had given a satisfactory explanation why
he had not made a motion to that effect during the present
session.

The Speaker then left the chair, and the house resolved
itself into a committee of supply—Mr. BOUVERIE in the
chair.

BRITISH MUSEUM ESTIMATE.
Sir R. H. INGLIS moved a /tote of 55,840/, for defray-
ing the salaries and expenses of the establishment of the
British Museum.

Mr.. HUMS thought the house had a right. to hear from
why none of the nsome
a Minister of the Crow
some years
Museum, had been adopted. Re explanation of the reasons
recommendationsback.. of the commission, ap-
pointedmons in its amount, and thought inquire into. the state of the
to expect a much more considered the vote enor-
essuteablishment. He wished glit the public were entitled
~ b a balance as 11,000 allowed. to
efficienttokuow how tere ame to be
the catalogue,
Ppluaeicnitaeswthae commissioners might think
hadandadministrationbest.over,
Greatto bo. fee
com-
plaints e:
madelon the
.subject of the non
1 if.loiwtefahnv.wttihecorheo
would
mtwraeenutsoup
obsfele,puirtnrmsgoeligo rb:illieeenesistset;te
their
fa 00 folio volumes ;
It consisted of 1,2
cost 100,0001. ; it would t, completion
itsof
forty years to have itae* at the pre-
sentratcompleted,:il a gem ea:td,
volumes
the
e oughtaffa
affairs
so
manager, or council .of
trustees.
dseouyfms for the
undivided attention
ofecptphley present board
It was now
purchase of Per/Pao:el:
though they were uttierl o' minerals and other matters,
took away all securitiesy acquired. The ms for several
ob-
jected also to the gildino.
,„ on"trod presentmanagemen systemi
the plain English character of fel' outside, which .destrey
great waste of the public money."sll'lth-hug, and occasioonee4
Sir R. 11. INGLIS said t hn
mis-
taken in supposing that none of the°re* member was
the commission had been carried into effect. ninendationg of
after their report was made, a meeting ofc
the trustees
held, which was attended by the late Sir Robertru stees way
Peel, for
the purpose of considering the various recommendations
made, and adopting such of them as fell with
in the
competency of the trustees, and met their approval
He considered the present board . of trustees inferior to*
no fixed board of management Which could be appointed.
Amongst those who attended regularly during. the pas
year he found the names of the Marquis of Lans-
downe, the Earl of Aberdeen, the Earl of Rosse, the
Bishop of London, Mr. Macaulay, and Sir David Dundas.
As to the floating balance alluded to by the hon. member,
it was lodged, not in the hands of trustees, . but in those
of the Treasury, and was merely nominal in its character,
arising from one quarter of the year fallwg into one ac-
count, and another quarter into a different' one. During
the three or four years that had passed since the report of
the commission was laid on the table accommodation had
been Providedfor a great portion of the collectiono fog which

it was wanted ; but there was still one department in which
he was most ready to acknowledge that extensive additional
accommodation was required—that of printed books. Some
years since it had been proposed to set apart 10,0001.
a
-year for the purchase of printed books, but such was the
amount of accommodation that would have been required
that the trustees found themselves obliged to decline
10,0001. 0001. a-year for that purpose. No
ma
Museum would hesitate to admit that
there was an enormous deficiency of space for the reception
of books, the trustees being bound to receive all copy-
nwho
saw te accepts,
right boo
and
ksand sets acquired by the public. An opportunity
of providing adequate room for this and other objects for
a long series of years to come, would be obtained by acced-
ing to the plans that had been laid before the trustees
for the construction of a new quadrangle to the east of the
present building at an expense of 250,0001. This would
enable them to accommodate a greatly increased number
of books and additional collections of natural history, as
well as to furnish adequate reading rooms. With regard
to the vexed question of the catalogue, he would only ob-
serve that in no public library of Europe were such facili-
ties given to the readers as were provided by the 1,200
volumes alluded to by the hon. member.
Slr W. MOLES WORTH was most ready to admit the
want of accommodation existing in the British Museum,
especially for printed books. Plans had been proposed for
providing increased accommodation, which had been re-
ferred by the Treasury to the Board of Works, and re-
ported upon by that board. The report was now under
the consideration of Government, and he was in hopes that
next session steps would be taken which would enable such
increased accommodation to be provided. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. W. BROWN adverted to the falling off that had
taken place in the number of visitors to the Museum. The
decrease was from more than 2,000,000. in 1851 to 500,000
in 1852.

Sir R. H. INGLIS said the same decrease had been
observed in all places of public resort, but there was an
increase as compared with the year preceding the Exhibi-

tion.

Mr. JAMES M`GREGOR believed the cause of the di-
minution of visitors to arise from the fact that the doors of
the Museum were not left open all the working days of the
week. When visitors arrived from the country, one of
their first visits was to the British Museum; but knowing
nothing of the days when it was open, they often went on
days when it was shut, and getting disgusted, they refused
to go back. He wished the authorities would arrange that
the Musuem should be open for six days in the week.
Sir R. H. INGLIS said there were two classes of visitors
to the Museum—those who come from motives of curiosity,
and those who visited it in pursuit of science. The Tues-
days and Thursdays were reserved for scientific visitors
and foreigners of distinction—Mondays, Wednesdays and.
Fridays, for the general public—and Saturdays were re-
served for cleaning.
Mr. HUME called attention to the fact that the trus-
tees had a balance of 11,0001. on hand from the vote of last
year, and he proposed to reduce the estimate for the pre-
sent year by that sum, and make it 44,0001.
Mr. WILSON explained that though the balance of
11,0001. remained in the Treasury, there were several pay-
ments and obligations still outstanding, which must be
provided for. The house might depend upon it that not a
shilling would be spent without the sanction and control of
the Treasury.
After some further conversation, the vote was agreed to-
On the next vote of 11,9961. for the salaries of the offi-
cers of the Board of Health, five or six members started up
at once to object to it, when
Sir W. MOLESWORTH begged to state that the func-
tions of this board would terminate next year. (Loud
cheers and laughter.) Under these, circumstances he
trusted hon. gentlemen would not think it worth their
while to enter into any debate on the subject. (Hear.)
Sir G. PECHELL, Mr. BASS, and one or two other mem-
bers, expressed their satisfaction at this announcement,
and the vote was agreed to.
The following votes were agreed to :
c ulmsd3r7eld. Efosrtatthees
Court.salarie s of the officers of the Irish En-
-10,930/. for foreign lighthouses.
2,000/. for the improvement of the navigation of the
Menai Straits.
On the vote of 2,5731. for the expense of drainage and
improvement of the navigation of certain rivers in Ireland.
Mr. F. FRENCH complained of the want of supervision
connected with the workmen on the Shannon.
Colonel DUNNE also complained that through some en-
gineering defects in the works carried on at Banagher, the
town was frequently flooded.
Mr. WILSON said none of these complaints had reached
the Government. If representations were made to the
Treasury, he could assure hon. members that they would
be attended to.

On the vote of 5,8201. for repairs of the house of the Bri-
tish embassy at Paris,
Mr. A. WYSE wished to know what was the necessity
for these repairs. He believed that great part of the sum
was nominally given for the building of a chapel ; but there
were already five or six Protestant chapels in Paris, where
Englishmen could both worship according to their own
faith and improve their knowledge of the French language.
Sir W. MOLESWORTH said that in the spring of last
year a representation was made from the Foreign-office te the
Board of Works of the indecent and dilapidated state in which
the house of the embassy was. An architect wassent over to
examine and report, and his report fully bore out the re-
presentation of the Foreign-office. The verandah round
the house had fallen down—the rooms abounded with ver-
min—the rooms had not been painted for years, and the
furniture was stained with the ordure of dogs and cats.
(Laughter.) A French architect had been employed to
keep it in repair for some years past; but though he re-
ceived large sums of money he did nothing, and these
repairs were now rendered necessary. On the receipt of
this report the Board of Works reported to the Treasury,
who directed that the repairs required most immediately
should be at once carried out to the extent of 3,4201. They
at the same time ordered that a further report should be
made upon the general state of the ambassadorial residence
at Paris. The result of that was the present report. With
respect to the fitting up of the dining-room of the embassy
as a chapel, he had to observe that the ball-room had been
used fur that purpose in previous years, but that the late
Government very properly thought it was not fitting that
a ball-room should be used for this sacred purpose.
Mr. HUME expressed his great surprise at the ill state of
repair into which this public property appeared to have
fallen, notwithstanding the annual votes which had been
made for keeping it in repair. . _

Lord SEITAIarR asked who was the architect who had
made the report upon which the present vote was asked
for, and also who was the architect who had inspected the
ambassadorial residence in years past ?
Sir W. MOLESWORTH said that the architect recently
sent over was Mr. Albano ; the inspection in previous
years had been made by Mr. Burton.
Mr. DISRAELI thought that the committee should
pause before agreeing to this vote. During the late Go-
vernment Lord Cowley addressed to him (Mr. Disraeli) a
letter containing such a representation of the state of the
ambassadorial residence at Paris, that a regard for the de-
cent regulation of the things requisite for the proprieties of
life required that an inquiry should be forthwith made
into the state of the house. Under these circumstances
Mr. Albano, a gentleman previously unconnected with
the repairs of ambassadors' houses, was sent to Paris, and
his report had not been received when the late Govern-
ment went out of office. Having now before them the
statement of the minister with respect to the contents of
that report, he would ask them whether they ever
heard a statement of the condition of a public building equal
to that of the residence of her Majesty's representative
in the most polished capital of Europe? He could not say
he thought the vote asked for extravagant ; on the contrary,
he could hardly conceive a sum equal to meet such an exi-
gency as the right hon. gentleman had painted with such
graphic force. According to his, statement there was not
a chamber which was not in a state of corruption ; not a
piece of furniture which did not breed vermin. The cel-
lars of the building are propped up.

Sir W. MOLESWORTH—" Were" propped up. Since
that report was made 3,4201. have been expended in re-
pairs.
Mr. DISRAELI—I trust that the vermin have disap-
peared. I think, if so, they have been most cheaply got
rid of. (Laughter.) He understood that this unprecedented
state of a public building had been brought about in con-
sequence of there having been a false expenditure of the
public money for many years. There appeared to have been
for a series of years statements made by a professional man
—not an English professional man—on the faith of which
the House of Commons had annually voted a certain sum
to support, renovate, and maintain the residence of
the English ambassador at Paris. And now it appeared
that these sums had never been expended. He wished to
know whether an English ambassador had resided in this
house during this series of years ; whether he had permit-
ted a sum to be voted by the House of Commons year after
year for the maintenance of this structure, which he never-
theless allowed to fall into this unparalleled state of dilapi-
dation? He wished to know too what security the house
would have against the repetition of such (aches in
future. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. HUME thought the vote should be postponed until
the report of the architect sent over to examine the house
had been laid before them.

Mr. WILSON said that there was undoubtedly some
degree of mystery connected with this matter, and it was
clearly necessary that the inquiry should take place. The
report which had been referred to in the course of the dis-
cussion should be laid on the table • but he hoped the house
would not postpone the vote, as the repairs were of urgent
necessity.
Mr. HENLEY thought that the reports for some years
previous ought also to be laid on the table. (Hear, hear.)
It was evident that a fraud of some kind had been prac-
tised ; and if they could have no guarantee against that in
future, it became a serious question whether they ought
not to sell this palace, and allow the ambassador an annual
sum out of which to provide himself with a residence.
Lord SEYMOUR considered the postponement of the
vote was perfectly unnecessary ; but he thought that they
ought to have not only tha report of Mr. Albano, but the
last report of Mr. Burton. (Hear, hear.) He believed
Mr. Albano had been employed by the Government before,
and that he had always given great satisfaction, his plans
being suitable, and framed with a due regard to economy.
Mr. FRENCH considered the proposition of the Govern-
ment a perfectly fair one.
Mr. V. SMITH asked whether there was no clerk of the
works to see that these buildings were kept in a proper
state of repair.
Sir W. MOLESWORTH said that a French architect
had been charged with the general care of the building ;
and that once a-year an English architect was sent over to
had been founded year by year.
examine and report upon it. Upon his reports the esti-
mates Mr. HUME suggested that the only remedy for the state
of things which had occurred would be to make the ambas-
sadors responsible for the condition of their residences.
Mr. DISRAELI said the committee was wandering from
the real point at issue. It was impossible that any public
structure could have fallen into the state which had been
detailed by the right hon. gentleman the President of the
Board of Works if there had been that expenditure upon
it which had been annually voted by the House of Com-
1-nons. Who, then, was responsible for this state of affairs?
(Hear, hear.) What he wanted to know was, whether the
eghepane
ambassador had been living in a house of the description
they had heard ; whether a single farthing had been ex-
pended of the yearly votes ; and if so, who had received
eloafnAoLhb la
N the money? (Hear, hear.) He did not think that they
adi nspirntoog
Mr. promised
i he
ads::
mt butil
ayr hdvlee.
would receive this information from the papers the hon.
tle
isittee did not vote the money they would have a better
setiwr
eh odouigthh(teHtcheaaasrte,
.i
hf
etWahre.h)caotr ea-
notion this official •
of English manners. residence must have given the Parisians
have permitted :irss. Why, no gentleman in London would
Mr. HUME said
to have resided in such a place.
arranging the matter bat the most satisfactory manner of
withdraw the would be for the hon. gentleman to
Mined.LSON r
vote for the present.
exped repeated that the money had already been
Mr. HAMILTONsaid
ambassador to the late that the statement made by the
the house was in a
dagovernment was to the effect that
dining-roora floor was
sindeiraoits condition, and that the
thexeicTe, lielit over Air. Albano,in g. The late government,
and upon, n stateme4t of

his, previous to his report, the late Government advised
certain repairs to be at once undertaken.
Mr. WILSON said that the estimate was originally for
9,2131. but the Treasury, foreseeing some discussion like
the present, had only estimated for the essential repairs.
Next year, a vote would be required for the remainder.
In answer to Mr. SPOONER,
Mr. WILSON said that if the hon. gentleman would
propose any form of return, it should, as far as possible,
be given by the government.
After some further conversation,
Mr. BOOKER suggested that the houses should be
hired from year to year. He thought the time was come
for taking into consideration the whole of the ambassa-
dors' salaries.
Mr. LAING was willing to vote the 5,0001., if it would
put the building in substantial repair.
Mr. WILSON said it would be confined almost entirely
to substantial repairs.
After some conversation, the vote was agreed to.
The next vote was 25,7501. for shipping offices and local
marine boards.

Mr. HUME said this sum was entirely taken from sea-
men, and he thought they ought to be allowed to make
their own engagements.

CARDWELL said the only change had been to
bring the sum under the consideration of Parliament ;
before it was not so.

The vote was agreed to, as was the following :-70,6001.
for the pensions of masters and seamen in the merchant
service, and their widows and orphans.
On the next vote, 2,1751., rewards for certain services in
the slave trade,

—Sir G. PECHELL asked for some explanation.
Col. SIBTHORP wished to know when there was to be
an end of this. As long as we encouraged slave-grown
sugar, the slave-trade would continue ; and ho thought
that the ministers who had given their sanction to free
trade in sugar should be made to pay these expenses.
Mr. WILSON said the vote referred to circumstances
which occurred in 1848, 1849, and 1850, when Captain
Dunlop, of the ship Alert, discovered that a number of
slave-dealers had established themselves on the coast, in
connection with a number of native chiefs in the interior
for the purpose of carrying on the trade in slaves. It was
necessary to land the troops, and they succeeded in libe-
rating a large number of slaves.
Mr. HUME referred to a similar vote which had been
made some years ago for Captain Denman, and which he
disapproved of, and afterwards ascertained to be illegal.
From the correspondence that had taken place on this
matter, he believed that the execution of the two chiefs
was nothing less than murder. The law officers would
state that this vote was illegal.
Mr. BRIGHT hoped that all the information in posses-
sion of the Government would be given before the vote
was agreed to. He believed that most unjustifiable trans-
actions took place on the coast of Africa, and the votes in
reference to them would all be smuggled through the
house, were it not for Mr. Hume.
Mr. WILSON said he had already given all the informa-
tion he, possessed. Any correspondence that had passed,
and not yet published, would be laid before the house.
Mr. BRIGHT believed the law officers of the Crown had
deeided that votes for services rendered on land were ille-
gal. The effect was merely to encourage officers in under-
taking marauding expeditions.
Mr. WILSON said the vote had been before the house
three mouths, and if papers were required or any informa-
tion, they would readily have been furnished ; but he could
not to postpone the vote upon the ground that they had not
been produced.
Captain SCOBELL said that a doubt was thrown out,
whether it was a legal payment, and that should be shown
before the house was asked to assent to it.
Mr. HUME insisted upon the propriety of postponing
the vote until the correspondence was produced.
Lord PALMERSTON said he presumed these men were
slaves in a slave barracoon, and on the same liberal prin-
ciple a bounty was offered for the capture of slaves afloat,
so, by a liberal construction of it, a reward was offered in
such a case as was now being considered.
Mr. BRIGHT thought the noble lord must have pre-
sumed very far on the credulity of the house, in endeav-
ouring to induce it, by such an argument, to pass this vote.
The case was not the same as where we had treaties with
civilised countries, and the facts had been ascertained in
courts of competent jurisdiction, for they were dealing
with people whose natural condition was war. He ob-
jected to the principle of giving a vote in every such case,
but still, if it were to be acted upon, let the manner of it
be properly settled by act of Parliament.
Lord PALMERSTON explained that this proceeding
had taken place under a treaty with the native chief. It
was the policy of this country to multiply such treaties,
and the chief in this case was bound by one of them.
Mr. F. PEEL observed that instead of provoking dis-
cussion the act of the gallant officer ought to receive the
approbation of the house. The King of Ashantee had
marched an army into the territory of a chief under our
protection. The inhabitants organised themselves for de-
fence, and it was owing to the tact and judgment of Major
Hall that a collision was avoided.
Mr. LAING said he must object to the application of
the
referred, principlesto i n totr fwerheicbhytnhaevnaolbelffie
eelorrds
itnhethHe Secretary
of savage countries.
- - - - -•-

The committee then divided, and the numbers were—
For the vote
Against it
Majority for —92
_ _

The next was a vote of 30,0001. to defray the expenses of
the commissions appointed to inquire into corrupt prac-
tices at elections.
Mr. WALPOLE wished to ascertain the proportions in
which the money had been expended, with reference to the
several classes of charges which had been investigated. He
wished to know, also, whether any instructions had been
given to the commissioners, at the time of their appoint-
ment, as to the manner in which they were to be paid,
whether by the day, or a stipulated sum ? There had been
five or six of these commissions, a large number of wit-
nesses had been examined by them, and a similar number
were likely to be examined yet ; whereas, if the inquiries
had been prosecuted by examining facts upon one or two
competent witnesses, they might have saved the examina-
tion, he would. not say of dozens, but of hundreds of wit-
nesses.
Col. SIBTHORP—A more gross, wast nl, and mis-
chievous expenditure, I do not remember having met with.
(A. laugh.) I always did set my face against commissions,
and I believe I may say that in 99 cases out of 100, com-
missions are gross frauds on the public—robberies of the
public in the enormous sums they have to pay. I have yet
to learn what are corrupt practices. I naturally put that
question, and I defy the noble lord, whatever may have
occurred in the city of London, and however it may be
wrapped up in mystery—(laughter)--I defy him to prove
one single case in which the humble individual who ad-
dresses him has been guilty of corrupt practices. (Great
laughter.) I court inquiry. These commissions are used
for certain purposes—party purposes—to employ certain
hangers-on of Government—briefless banisters—useful
men on those particular occasions, but who had no clients
to be useful to on others. (Hear, hear.) There have been
five or six of these commissions, and nothing done. Five
or six more will be appointed, and they will do nothing.
The gallant colonel then moved the postponement of the
vote. _ _ _

Lord PALMERSTON said that the selection of these
commissioners had been left not to the Government, but
to the persons who had moved for the commission, also
those gentlemen in every respect fitted for the office, from
high legal attainments and position at the bar. They were
all circuit-going lawyers, and could not, therefore, afford
to relinquish their circuit, without a higher rate of remu-
neration than would be given under ordinary circumstances
Mr. FRENCH complained of the verdicts which had
been given by the select committees, and which had resulted
in the appointment of the commissions. He could put his
hand on severed cases in which there was not a single shade
of plausibility for the decision come to by the committee,
and unless some reforms were introduced into this system
before the next election, he defied any member to retain
his seat, if there were inquiry into his election. It mat-
tered not how pure and cautious the conduct of himself and
of his agents might have been, after what they had seen of
these committees, his seat, on a petition, must inevitably
be sacrificed.
Lord J. RUSSELL said he could not believe that there
was any justice in the accusation which the hon.gentleman
had brought against these select committees. These com-
mittees were appointed under act of Parliament, and were
generally composed of gentlemen eminent for their great
knowledge of the law. He (Lord J. Russell) believed that
they had conscientiously discharged their duty, and he
thought that the house had every reason to be satisfied
with the conduct of those committees, and the pains they
had taken in the discharge of their duties. At all events,
it was not becoming in this house, without very great proof
indeed, to attempt depreciate the authority of those
gentlemen. These commissioners had been appointed ac-
cording to act of Parliament, and on the nomination of
persons of various political opinions, and he believed that
the persons so appointed were various in their political
opinions, and could not, therefore, have been selected from
any party feelings or prejudices. (Hear, hear.) There
was a danger, he admitted, that the expenses under these
commissions might be excessive, and no doubt it would
be the duty of the Home-office to watch the conduct of
these Commissioners, and if they should find that the mode
pursued by them was likely to lead to any abuse, to alter
that mode, and endeavour to prevent any expense, beyond
that which was absolutely necessary for the purposes of
the investigations, being incurred. (Hear, hear.)

- _
Mr. AGLIONBY referred to the unanimous opinion
expressed by the Plymouth committee that their inquiry
was an entire waste of time, and that these investigations
could be only properly conducted by a commission sitting
on the very spot. (Hear, hear.)
Colonel DUNNE suggested that in these cases the bo-
roughs which formed the subject of inquiry should bear
the whole of the expense, in consonance with an ancient
law in this country. (Hear, hear.) He considered it un-
fair that Ireland should have to pay its share of these ex-
penses when not one of its members had been charged
with these corrupt practices.
Mr. FRENCH inquired whether the sixteen places
which had been deprived of members by these committees
would remain unrepresented until the next session?
Lord J. RUSSELL said that of course if the house did
not issue the writs for those places, the house must remain
without those members.
The vote was then agreed to.
On the vote of 3,7231. to Dr. Reid, as the amount of com-
pensation awarded to him for his services in superintend.
ing the ventilation of the Houses of Parliament,
Col. SIBTHORP protested against the increased ex-
pense which had been incurred in doctoring up these
buildings. He wanted to know when it was likely that
this robbery would end?
The vote was agreed to.
On a vote of 28,0001. to defray the fees, salaries, and
compensation under the Patent Law Amendment Act,
Mr. APSLEY PELLATT said that the real expense of
this department was only 4,0001., and that the rest of the
money was for fees and compensation for doing nothing.
Mr. WILSON explained that the fees were fixed by the
act. and had been very considerably reduced of late.
Mr. BRIGHT wished to know whether the 12,0001. were
more or less than were received before. He rembered Sir
John Jarvis stating that his emoluments of officewere 12,0001.
a year, and that the Solicitor-General's were 7,0001. a year.
Now, seeing that those gentleman had time to attend to
their own professional interest, he was anxious to be in-
formed respecting the grounds on which the sum of
'12,000/. were proposed.
Mr. WILSON explained, and said that the expenses of
the law officers of the Crown would be 30,000/. less, taken
altogether, than they were before.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL, in answer to Mr. KIN-
NAIRD, said that the offices of the attorney and solicitor
were devoid, in connection with the office of patents, of
any salary whatever. When the law was altered, the
Attorney-General and Solicitor-General at once placed
themselves in the hands of the Lord Chancellor, who took
steps in the matter, and subsequently to their going out of
theoffi c
ore
rti g
ih en far
as
mwoeur
ne tr. el% u lea tbeuds,i ae and,
ar es da
nu
tcieedi
poant
ee
d- fourth ut h of
greatly
increased, and the law officers of the Crown had, conse-
uently, greatly increased business and emoluments. The
ord Chancellor consequentlY, reduced the fees. There
L

was, in the first instance, a reduction of one fourth, and
in the next, of one-half of the fees.
Mr. CHEETHAM was of opinion that the salaries to
the law officers of the Crown ought to be paid out of the
Consolidated Fund.

The vote was then agreed to.
On the motion that 70,0001. be granted to her Majeity
for the works of the new houses of Parliament, in the pre-
sent year,
Colonel SIBTHORP opposed the vote on the ground of
the interminable expense to the country of those works.
Mr. HUME said he had two years ago complained of
those yearly demands for money for the works of the new
houses of Parliament. Was there ever to be an end of
those expenses ? He thought there was far more expense
incurred in the prosecution of the houses than necessary.
Looking at the ponderous locks that were placed on the
doors, they reminded him of those of the time of Tubal
Cain. (Laughter.) In his (Mr. Hume's) opinion, the
houses of Parliament would never be finished, and he
wished that an estimate were furnished of what the proba-
ble amount of expense would in future be.
Sir W. MOLESWORTH would endeavour to obtain
such an estimate ; and in future, he begged to state that
the vote for the tenses of Parliament would be founded
upon the actual estimate, which would be furnished for
the satisfaction of the country.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY said the question before the
committee was a very important one. Three years ago it
turned out that the actual sum expended had come to
707,0001. A question was then put, what the amount for
completing the houses would be? and Mr. Barry, in reply
said, he could not tell. (Laughter.) He was then asked
if it would amount to 100,000/. ? and ho answered be
could not say. He was then asked, if half a million would
do? and he replied, it might. (Laughter.) Well, since
that time, the amount expended on those works amounted
to 16,0001. What had they done this year? Why, they
voted 110,0001. for the works. The question for the com-
mittee was, how were they to effect some control over the
expenditure for the works for the future ? (Hear, hear.)
He found an outstanding debt of 86,0001. in the estimates,
and one of the parties engaged in executing those works
said he would not be paid unless 100,0001. a year were ex-
pended on the works of the houses. It was quite clear
that if they said a million of money would cover the ex-
penses, that they would not get out of the business under
two millions. He thouoht that some steps should be taken.
to insure the country that the proper estimates should be
laid before the house. (Hear, hear.)
Sir W. MOLES WORTH explained that the very large
amount of outstanding account for the new houses was
occasioned by the necessity of having the works measured
before paid for, a process which had not been gone through.
The debt had been based upon work which did not come
into the financial year. The votes would, however, in
future be based upon the estimates of the work to be ex-
ecuted in the financial year, and would be paid in that
year.
Mr. MACARTNEY suggested they should call on Sir
Chas. Barry to give an estimate of the further expenses
that would be required. The hon. member next called
attention to the defective state of the arrangements for
lighting the house.
Lord SEYMOUR thought the statement of the first
Commissioner of the Board of Works was very satisfactory.
He was of opiniou, however, that the time was come when
the amount of remuneration to Sir Charles Barry should
be settled, (Hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
agreed with the noble lord that the time had already
elapsed when the remuneration to Sir Charles Barry should
be settled. He could assure them that during the recess
they would endeavour to obtain a bond fide estimate of the
further expenses that would be required. (Hear.)
Mr. BOWYER called attention to the very defective
state of the ventilation of the house. More attention had
been paid to make the windows of an ornamental cha-
racter than to make them, by opening, fit for the purposes
of ventilation. (Hear.)
Mr. BASS said he found now that they had got 21
orders of the day to go through, and believed several of
them would create a good deal of discussion. If the com-
mittee agreed with him he would move that the chairman
should report progress. (No, no.) He had no objection
to finish the present vote. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. BRIGHT said he would be glad to know whether
there was any plan of this building, because if they had
one they might be able to come to some conclusion as to
the time when the expenditure should cease.
Sir DENHAM NORREYS wished to observe, that
he thought it would be a great convenience if the clock
tower were finished without any more unnecessary delay.
Lord CLAUDE HAMILTON wished to know whether
the right hon. gentleman could give any possible estimate
of the loss that had accrued to the public by the changes
that had been made to the building. The noble lord then
alluded to the various changes that had been made in the
roof and windows of the chamber they now occupied, and
other alterations for the purpose of hearing.
Sir W. MOLES WORTH said it was impossible to
give such an estimate.
Mr. SPOONER said no ventilation could be better
carried out than the ventilation of the house they last
occupied.
Mr. HUME wished to know, now that Dr. Reid was
discharged, who had charge of the lighting and ventilation
of the house ? _ .

-- --- .
Sir W.— MOLESWORTH said that nothing was done
with regard to the lighting and ventilation of the house
without consulting Mr. Locke and Mr. Stevenson.
. _

After a few words from Mr. BALL,
Mr. BOWYER wished a plain answer to his question,
whether the windows were to be opened or not ; or
whether, if not, it would be legal for hon. members to
break the windows with those extraordinary beasts upon
them, in order to get fresh air.
Sir D. NORREYS protested against the suggestion of
the lighting being placed under Mr. Gurney. The whole
matter ought to be placed under one responsible person, and
had been so placed under Mr. Meeson. All he asked was
that the lighting and ventilation should be placed under
the same person.
Mr. MALINS believed ho had spent as much time in the
house during the last seven months as any one member in
it. and he felt bound to say that it was the best ventilated
apartment he had ever been in. He thought it but justice
to the gentlemen entrusted with it to say so much.
Mr. B. OSBORNE said the statement of the First Com-
missioner of Works, that nothing was done to the lighting
without the consent of the Lighting Committee, was not
correct. There had been lately 34 lights placed over the
back benches to enable the whippers-in to see members on
them. These lights were of the most extraordinary kind,
fitterfor Vauxhall than elsewhere. The committee knew no-
thing of that, and now the honourable member for Honi-
ton had told him that such was the heat of the lights on
the ceiling, that they would in a short time char the real
roof, and in a short time they would have to put up
another. The health of members was injured by it, and
he feared they would lose many of their most valuable
members, from the shocking way in which the light and
ventilation was managed.
Sir W. MOLESWORTH said the light over the back
seats had been ordered by the Speaker, who found that
members were occasionally disorderly—(laughter)—and
wished to see them. (Renewed laughter.)
After some further conversation, the Chairman reported
progress, and obtained leave to sit again.
EDUCATION BILL.

Upon the motion of Lord J. RUSSELL it was resolved
that this bill be read a second time that day three months.

POOR RELIEF ACT CONTINUANCE BILL.

The Poor Relief Act Continuance Bill having been read
a third time,
Mr. MILES moved the insertion of a clause, authorising
the Poor Law Board to sanction the separation of unions
where the parishes desiring such separation had no work-
house accommodation, under conditions which would insure
such accommodation.
The motion was seconded by Sir G. TYLER, but was
opposed by Mr. BAINES, and negatived.
The bill then passed.
INSURANCES ON LIVES BILL.
This bill was read a third time and passed.
BETTING-HOUSES BILL.

The house then went into committee on this bill.
Mr. PELLATT moved in section 4, line 39, after the
word " contingency," to insert, " every person who shall
by any bill, placard, or writing, or by advertisement in
any newspaper, offer to give information as to the result
of any race, fight, or game, thereafter to be run or de-
termined, and any editor or proprietor of any newspaper,
inserting or knowingly suffering to be inserted therein,
any such advertisement as aforesaid, shall, upon summary
conviction thereof before two justices of the peace, forfeit
and pay a sum not exceeding ten pounds, or at the discre-
tion of such justices, or in default of payment of such fine,
be imprisoned in the common jail or house of correction,
with or without hard labour, for any period not exceeding
one calendar month."

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL opposed the amendment,
and it was negatived.
The other clauses were agreed to, and the bill was
ordered to be reported.

DEFACING THE COIN BILL.
This bill was read a second time.
PUBLIC WORKS ACTS AMENDMENT BILL.

The house went into committee on this bill. Several
clauses having been agreed to, the house resumed.
LINEN, &c., MAUFACTURES (IRELAND) BILL.
This bill was read a second time.
SMOKE NUISANCE ABATEMENT (METROPOLIS)