The Sun.
London, England, 1854-03-14 00:00:00

by a Legislature or undertaken by a Government, and the
reckless levity that was displayed—and it is on that account
chiefly that I have risen—the reckless levity, I repeat, that
was displayed, was in my opinion discreditable to the very
last degree to the grave and responsible statesmen of a civi-
lised and a Christian nation.
Lord PALMERSTON immediately rose, and was re-
ceived with considerable cheering. He said—Sir, the hon.
and reverend gentleman. (laughter)—
Mr. COBDEN', interrupting—l rise to order. The noble
lord has, I believe, made use of an epithet in speaking of
my hon. friend, that is not justified by the rules of this
house. (Hear, and some laughter.) I trust I shall not
misinterpret his meaning when I say that it was not in-
tended to be personally offensive, but I think I shall not
be contradicted by a majority of this house when I say that
it was flippant and undeserved.
Lord PALMERSTON—I will not quarrel about words
—(a laugh)—but as the hon. gentleman has been pleased
to advert to the circumstance of my being chairman at the
dinner to which allusion has been made, and as he has been
kind enough to express an opinion as to my conduct on that
occasion, I deem it right to inform the hoa. gentleman that
any opinion he may entertain either of me personally, or of
my conduct, private or political, is to me a matter of the
most perfect indifference. (Cheers and laughter.) I am
further convinced that the opinion of this country with
regard to me and to my conduct will iu no way whatever
be influenced by anything that the hon. gentleman may
say. I therefore treat the censure of the hon. gentleman
with the most perfect indifference and contempt. (Some
cries of " Order !") Is that Parliamentary or not ? (Laugh-
ter.) If it is not, I do not insist upon the expression.
(Cheers and laughter.) The hon. gentleman has stated that
he felt the greatest pain on reading the proceedings which
took place at this dinner. That pain arises, no doubt,
from the manner in which the members of the Reform
Club were pleased to testify their confidence in Sir Charles
Napier, and their satisfaction at finding that a distinguished
member of his profession, happening also to be a member
of the club, had been selected for a most important post at
a time of great public emergency. The hon. member, I
dare say, read with great pain au account of any manifes-
tation tending in any degree towards the expression of an
opinion that there should be a recourse to arms, no matter
what might be the interests or the cause at stake. (Cheers.)
The hon. member, I have no doubt, sympathises with that
respectable gentleman whose pamphlet I read on a former
occasion, and I daresay the hon. member is of opinion that
this country ought to submit to any degradation rather
than have recourse to war. (Hear, hear.) That is an
opinion which the hon. member is perfectly justified in
maintaining. Ido not dispute his right to maintain such
an opinion, but he stands almost singly in that opinion
on this occasion, with the great majority of the country
against him: I can only say that I felt very proud at
being invited by the Reform Club, to preside at the
dinner to which allusion has been made. (Loud
cheers.) I thought it an honour conferred on me
when I was asked to preside at a dinner given to my gallant
friend Sir Charles Napier. The hon. member for Man-
chester thinks that Sir Charles Napier is too old for his
duties. The result will show whether he is too old or not.
(Cheers.) The hon. member for Manchester, moreover,
thinks that these dinner arrangements mast be Cabinet
questions. Now, I can assure him that they are open ques-
tions. (Cheers and laughter.) They are not discussed in
the Cabinet; and, though I confess the speech of the hon.
member was calculated to excite any but a friendly feeling
on my part, I will only say, in conclusion, that if he
should get himself elected a member of the Reform Clab—
(cries from several hon. members of " Ile' is !")—Oh ! he
is a member, is he ? (Mach laughter.) A most unworthy
member, I must say. (Renewed laughter.) If, however,
the hon. member should fall into the humour of the Re-
form Club (a laugh), and should attend the next dinner
which is given in honour of a distinguished officer who is
about proceeding upon an important public service, I can
only say that we shall be happy to hear his speech.
(Laughter.) Although it might not add to the conviviality
of the evening, yet I can assure the hon. gentleman that,
whether he may be in that state in which he assumes my
right hon. friend (Sir J. Graham) not to have been (a
laugh), or whether he may be able —as I doubt not he
would be—to go through the festivities of the evening with
the same clearness of intellect as he manifests on all occa-
sions in this house, I can assure him that we shall be
ready to discuss with him any question—public or private,
of peace or of war, which hs may choose to start, and I
should not think that he disgraced himself by attending a
dinner given by the club to any distinguished man whom
the club might think proper to honour by inviting him to
partake of their hospitality. (Cheers.)
Sir T. HERBERT said, the observations to which allu-
sion had been made had been read with great surprise,
and, he might say, with great pain by members of the
profession to which he had the honour to belong. (Hear,
hear.) He' would be the last man to grudge his distin-
guished and gallant friend, Sir C. Napier, any compliment
or honour that might be paid to him; but he (Sir T. Her-
bert), conceiving that the language attributed to a gentle-
man holding the high position of First Lord of the Admi-
ralty, as having been addressed to a political club, was
most extraordinary, deemed it his duty to put the following
question to the right hon. baronet :—Whether certain
words attributed to hire in a speech delivered at a dinner
given in the Reform Club to Admiral Sir C; Napier had
been correctly reported, which appear in the Times of the
Bth day of March, viz., "We, as Reformers, may be proud
that the honour of the British flag in the Euxine and the
Baltic is intrusted to two such champions as Admiral Dun-
das and Sir C. Napier?"
Sir J. GRAHAM—If the hon. and gallant admiral deli-
berately thinks it his duty to put the question to me with
which he has concluded, and if I am to collect that the
house thinks it becoming to pursue this inquiry further '
and to entertain this subject deliberately, I shall not hesi-
tate to answer the question which has been put by the gal-
lant admiral. I believe that the words which he has read
are correctly reported, and I have nothing to retract or
to explain in those words. (Cheers.) I was invited as a
guest to the Reform Club; and it did appear to me that
it was neither improper nor inappropriate to congratulate
the members of that club that itwo of their oldest
and most distinguished members —(loud cries of " hear,
hear") —that two of their oldest and most dis-
tinguished members had been selected for the command of
two such important fleets as the fleet in the Euxine and
the fleet in the North Sea ; and I did say that I, as a Re-
former, certainly with them rejoiced, that two members
of their club had been considered sufficiently trustworthy
and well qualified to be the champions of the British flag
at a moment, and in an emergency like the present. (Hear,
hear.) Again I say that I have nothing to regret or to
retract in respect to that expression. But the hon. and
gallant officer, since he has studied the report of what was
Bali upon that occasion, should not, I think, in justice to
me, have neglected to notice the comment with which I
preface,' those words ; I said that in my opinion politics
were rightly excluded from the naval profession. (Hear,
and cries of "Oh !" from the Opposition.) Ido not be-
lieve that into the selection either of Admiral Dundas or
of Sir C. Napier political considerations entered in the
slightest degree. (Hear, hear.) All I can say is that, in
administering the patronage of the Admiralty to the best
of my judgment, I have conscientiously and invariably en-
deavoured to make that sentiment the rule of my conduct.
(Cheers.) -
Sir W. MOLESWORTH—With reference to the obser-
vations which have been made by the lion member for
Manchester upon my attending the recent dinner at the
Reform Club, I may be permitted to state that I at-
tended there as a member, and a very old member, of
the club. (Hear, hear.) Upon that occasion I was called
upon to propose the health of the Turkish Minister. In so
doing I expressed very briefly what were my views as to
what had been and what ought to be the policy of her Ma-
jesty's Government. I said that they had endeavoured to
the utmost of their power to preserve peace—that their
efforts had been unsuccessful—that the time for vigorous
action had come, and that I hoped success would attend
our arms. In expressing those sentiments lam not aware
that I said anything of which I need be ashamed. Cer-
tainly I said nothing that I should have forborne to express
either in this house or anywhere else, and I may be per-
mitted to add, that I do not think I said anything at all
opposed to any opinion that I have ever entertainecl. The
hon. member for Manchester has thought proper to accuse
me of some change in my opinions since I have had a seat
upon these (the Treasury) benches. I beg to give to that
charge a flat contradiction. Ido not in any way acknow-
ledge the right of the right hon. member to be my poli-
tical guide or leader, and while I respect his talents, he
will permit me to say of him, that though I think he is an
able man, I at the same time think that he is full of illibe-
ral and narrow-minded prejudices. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. DISRAELI—I am inclined to think that this ques-
tion has been met, perhaps, in rather too serious a spirit,
for I cannot help thinking that there are some extenuating
circumstances which might be alleged at the present mo-
ment upon the part of the right hou. gentleman the First
Lord of the Admiralty. It is, perhaps, possible that the
right hon. gentleman may indiscreetly have interfered for
an instant with the exercise of the prerogative, and that
he may have told Sir C. Napier that he was at liberty to
declare war. But it is a matter of considerable notoriety
that Sir C. Napier never obeys orders —(a laugh) ; and,
therefore, taking a charitable view of the matter, I con-
sider that when the right hon. gentleman told Sir C.
Napier that he might declare war, he was quite con-
fident that Sir C. Napier would maintain peace. (Re-
hewed laughter.) I think, also, that perhaps too much
roolbeen made by my gallant friend, the admiral, of the
consi-
derable of the right hon. gentleman, that ho felt consi-
,gr.antification at our two powerful fleets at this mo-
mentsl4°l g commanded by Reformers. I confess that
shock. Ire
ad that passage myself the first time I felt a alight
t see
not fora med, to
on of the evince a partisan spirit which I could
raement suppose would pervade the administra-
ti ad
upon reflectionali raitY
of this great naval country; but,
even that objectionable assage assumed a
very different (shared
Lscornggeratiteaelatstiwovenhtliii:%a• ht hon.
No doubt it is is subject of great
gentleman that those two
byvte been sent out under his auspices
are commanded
other Reformers; but then we
must recollect, on the
_nr_hand, that at the present day
sound Reformers Mean
view
theji n who do not reform. (A
laugh.) Taking that
question, therefore, I look
upon those two Reformers as tw o Conservatives, because I
believe that Reformergs.atLuteadthe
present day are the most
harmless animals going,
part.ollthe
loirehot'othis beingtl
a bitter partisan toast on the
man I have come to the conclusion that it is 3 a friennleynaned
amicable passage. (Laughter.) •J'here was another p tin
the speech of the right hon. gentlemau Which I confeosisndid
give me some alarm, and that was, the invective which he
expressed against the Emperorof Rusks. Hang just been informed by the noble lord, the. leader of the house that
we were still in negotiation with that potentate,
being
apprised daily that war was not yet declared, and have
RIGHTS OF NEUTRALS.
Iby the • mg
only within a few days been assure( prime
Mini-
hoped that the Government would
rider, Mr MITCHELL
star that he believed that war was not inevitable, I did con.
%.er.,le, state their intentions as to the course they mean to
must say, that an English Minister of the.great
cum ‘evnitth respect to the neutrals. It was the more in-
talents and position of the right hon. gentleman, going to t
that dinner at a political club, and delivering an invective
rebiai
classes
itnhetzsto do so because the trading and
countryhwere naturally most anxious
com-
against the Emperor of Russia at that moment, was most
on the subject,s
e air because t 3 statement made the other
undignified and indiscreet ; but farther reflection con- , night by the Secretary f the Treasury adto be en-
vineed me that there was much more discretion in the I tirely it
ewiuth the documentasurywhichaere had been
right hon. gentleman, even in that respect, than upon the issued by noble lordthe S
the ecretary for Foreign Affairs.
mere surface of the question would appear, because I re- A very large proen t'of
_ , r ion the mercantile community, he
the right hon. I believed member, that a little more than a year ago , eve,i, were making preparations to send goods by lend
gentleman delivered an invective against another Empe- front Russia through. Prussia with a view of avoidin.. ,the
ror. (Frear hear, and a laugh.) Well, sir, I ain. never I blockade. Under these circumstances he hoped that*
ashamed of confessing it when I believe that I have been I explanation would he ' bthe Government.an
given y
in errorl; and I admit that I, who have not the experience Sir C. WOOD said that this was a subject of the greatest
of the , right hon. gentleman, or any pretension to his importance, and cue which called for the most careful con-
atttesmanlike cnetnitted the serious blunder of ! sideration of the Government. The subject had occupied
Calling the attentiolof thlifeifee-of commons to that ! the consideration of the Government for some time, and
vinecre• lii•
,glakincleaCahat‘t peace of Europe was they would be prepared at the earliest possible moment
*all* CantratTs...... Ll 7 cans uence I suppose, I consistently with their public dirty to state to the house
of the ab • alter' ab-tfititT he EmperorP of the and the public the co Which they •
j Ft era, urse they intended to pursue.
Fzench
f I Mr. M. GIBSON said h
the most !11:40466a the inosttrah orthy and one oe would, take the liberty of
Romero tliatehtsrMeafeetyaraer yet had. (Hear.)stating that a public declaration having been made in a
sit•visirberefcait, have doubt that in the despetch from the Foreign Department of the country to
favecvere • the ethft d age.WA • a upon this •
sY the Emperor of ' our consul at Rigsubject,
he thought it was

Russia the right hon. gentleman sees much further than
we can do, and that the consequence evident and apparent
to him is, that we shall soon count the Emperor of Russia
also as a cordial and faithful ally of her Mai aty. (Cheers
and laughter.)
Mr. SPOONER was very far from thinking that the
house had treated this subject too gravely; for he was not
ashamed to say, although he differed essentially in most of
his political views from the hon. member for Manchester,
completelythathehahaa concurred with him in the sentiments
which expressed that evening. It was an awful
thing to engage in war, and he agreed with the hon. mem-
ber that it was not at festivals like the one in question that
a great
nation should be called upon, headed by her Ma-
jesty's Ministers, to express an opinion as to the policy of
going to war. He contended that the right hon. baronet
had not met the question in the way in which it ought to
have been met; and when he accused the hon. member of
standing alone upon the present occasion, he could tell him
that the country was with that hon. member in the view
which he took of the impropriety of so commencing a war,
and he was quite sure that the great bulk of the thinking
people of this nation lamented what had taken place at the
Reform Club. He did not reproach the Government for
having undertaken this war, because he believed it to be a
just and necessary war. He did not blame them for not
having hastened it, because he thought that they had shown
a wise discretion in not doing so. Neither did he blame
them for the exertions which they were now making, because
he thought that in that respect the country was with them;
but he believed that they would have had a greater amount
of support from the thinking part of the nation if they had
entered into this war with a more solemn feeling, and ex-
pressing, at least, a deeper sense of the responsibility
which devolved upon them. He believed that this was the
first time that war had been so near impending upon
which the Government had not advised the Sovereign to
proclaim a solemn fast. It was the duty of a Christian
nation to acknowledge Providence in all its affairs. We
boasted of our fleets, of our armies, and of the good feeling
of the people ; but the battle was not always to the
strong, neither was the race to the swift, and he
sincerely trusted that the noble lord would yet see fit to
advise her Majesty to call upon all her subjects to join to-
gether in imploring the mercy and praying for the guid-
ance of Providence, and in committing to his care the awful
interests now about to be involved. If he had allowed the
jokes of the noble lord the Secretary of State, or even the
amusing speech of his right hon. friend (Mr. Disraeli), to
have diverted attention from the important view which
had been put forth by the hon. member for Manchester,
he felt that he should have been guilty of a great neglect
of duty. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. COBDEN would not have said a word upon this oc-
casion but for the remarks of his right hon. friend the
member for Southwark. He unhesitatingly stated that,
if there were one hon. member with whose public course
through a long political life he had greater acquaintance
than another, it was that of his right hon. friend the mem-
ber for Southwark ; and yet, without claiming the title to
be his chief, he thought that there were good grounds for
believing that the opinions which had been attributed to
him by the hon. member for Manchester might almost ma-
thematically be demonstrated to be the opinions which he
had always entertained with respect to our foreign policy.
They might be justly characterised as the principle of
non-intervention. If they were not, he should say that,
after 15 years' acquaintance with the right hon. gentle.
man, he had been more mistaken than ever he had been
in his life with regard to the opinions of an individual,
and, if there were one man more than another who
he should have said ought not to have attended that Re-
form Club dinner, and have made a speech, the right hon.
member for Southwark was the one. The right hon. gen-
tleman separated himself, as a member of the club, from
himself as a member of the Government. He (Mr. Cob-
den) spoke of him in all capacities, whether as a member
of the club, or of the Government, or as a politician un-
connected with either, and he had always believed his
right hon. friend to have entertained those opinions which
had been attributed to him by his hon. friend the member
for Manchester. When he had heard, therefore, the acri-
mony and want of temper with which his right hon. friend
had retorted upon his hon. friend, he must say that the
tone and temper of his right hon. friend carried back to
his recollection a remark which he had often heard, that
when persons expressed contempt of anybody in strong
terms, and with a great amount of temper, they did not
very often feel all that contempt which they expressed,
but rather a feeling of self-accusation and mortification.
His right. hon. friend had separated himself from his office
as a Cabinet Minister, but he ventured to say that his hon,
friend had levelled his charges at those three distin-
guished gentlemen who had attended the Reform Club
solely in their capacity as Cabinet Ministers. (Hoar,
hear.) He had not said a word about the eloquent
speeches of the noble member for Marylebone, or of the
hon. and gallant member for Westminster, because they did
not hold that responsible position; but his observations
had been addressed to members of the Cabinet, in whose
hands rested, after all, the real question of peace and
war, although it wa.s called the prerogative of the Crown.
(Hear.) These speeches could have little effect as tending
to war, because war must have been inevitable in the
minds of those gentlemen before they made those speeches ;
but, then, what became of their conduct in sendiug out
offers of peace to Russia? (Hear, hear.) He had felt
since the noble lord, the leader of the house, had made his
speech, that war was inevitable, but what he wanted to know
was, how we should ever have peace again ? The end and
object of war must after all be peace; but it appeared to
him that the speeches of those Cabinet Ministers had not
only rendered war inevitable, but peace impossible. (Hear,
hear.) A French historian had laid it down as a maxim,
that no English Ministry that had entered into a war had
ever lived to see the end of it. Possibly, the right hon.
gentlemen had that impression upon their minds, and they
did not, therefore, feel burdened with that responsibility
which otherwise might attach to them. (Hear, hear.)
The motion for the adjournment of the house was then
withdrawn.

APPOINTMENT OF MR. STONOR.
Mr. MOORE complained of the appointment of Mr.
Stonor to a Judgeship in the colonies, after the report of a
committee of the house, indicating that he had been guilty
of bribery at the elections of Sligo, 1813 and 185, and
askei the Government if they wero now prepared to cancel
the appointment ?

Mr. F. PEEL said the guilt of Mr. Stoner did not appear
from the evidence before the committee ; and that it did
not appear to the Government that Mr. Stoner was not
eligible for any appointment under the Crown.
A. discussion ensued, in which Mr. Bowyer, Mr. Divett,
Sir E. Filmer, and Mr. Hildyard took part, each explain- '
ing his opinions on the subject,
After a few words from Mr. V. SCULLY, the discussion
dropped.

THE BALTIC TRADE.

Lord JOCELYN said that he wished to put two ques-
tions to the Government—one related to the present state
of the Baltic trade and the intentions of her Majesty's
Government with respect to that trade. Since he had
come into the house he had received a communication from
the Secretary of the Treasury informing him that he would
not be able to answer the question to-day. He (Lord
Jocelyn) that the question was one which ought t, be
answered without delay, for many of his constituents were
much alarmed, owing to Government not having made the
statement promised a short time ago by the First Lord of
the Admiralty, in reply to the right hon. member for
Manchester, in reference to neutrals. As he understood
that the right hon. gentleman intended to bring the ques-
tion forward, he (Lard Jocelyn) would be content to leave
the question in his hands. (Hear, hear.)
POSTAL ARRANGEMENTS WITH AUSTRALIA.
Lord JOCELYN said that the second question which
he wished to ask was this. He wished to ask the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer what arrangements had been made
with the Royal Screw Steam-packet Company for the
transmission of the mails to Australia ; and whether such
arrangements were to be considered as the principle upon
which the colonial postal service would be conducted in
future as opportunities occurred? He might be permitted
to state, as chairman of the committee which last year in-
vestigated this subject, that their inquiries had led them
to believe that the large sums of money which were given
for these postal servicies had tended to create monopolies
in the hands of particular companies.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
with respect to the question put by his noble friend as to
the arrangements which had been entered into with the
Screw Steam-packet Company to Australia, he was quite
correct in stating that the Government had adopted a
plan different from that which had hitherto been usually
made in cases of this kind. He hoped soon to be able to
lay papers connected with the transaction on the table of
the house, and those papers would afford a better explana-
tion of the matter than any which he could now offer. He
would state generally that the principle was this :—The
postage charged as sea postage between this country and
Australia, namely, 4d., was to be divided in certain pro-
portions between the Government and the company which
carried the letters. The company would not be paid by a
fixed SUM, as its remuneration would depend on the
amount of postal accommodation afforded. The company
would receive 3d. and the Government id. for the sea
postage ; the entire sum charged being 6d. There was also
a provision in the arrangement that when the receipts of
the company arrived at a certain point the company might
be required by the Postmaster-General to put on an in-
creased number of steamers, so as to ensure more frequent
communication. And the Postmaster-General would be at
liberty to send letters by other ships to Australia, when
specially marked by the persons sending them to be sent
in such manner. With respect to the latter part of the
question, he had only to state that the general viewsof the
Government on the subject of packet commue;eaoien Gehl-
cided with those or the .ommittee appoiuted to consider
the subject last year. The recommendations of the com-
mittee had been generally adopted by the Government,
and, therefore, as opportunities occurred, they hoped to
effect many improvements in reference to the performance
of these postal services. (Hear, hear.)
SALE OF RUSSIAN SHIPS OF WAR.
Sir G. PECFIELL said he wished to put a question to
the noble lord the member for the city of London with
respect to a report which had appeared in the public papers
a few days ago. It appeared that accounts had been re-
ceived from the port of Trieste that three Russian frigates,
which might have gone out amongst our merchantmen,
had either been hauled out of the way or sold, and the
crews permitted to go through the Austrian territories, to
meet, perhaps, his gallant friend, Admiral Napier, in the
Baltic. (Hear, hear.) This showed what the Russians
intended to (19 with the ships. If they intended to sell
them and to transport their crews overland to other places,
this would give the people of this country some idea of the
mode in which Russia intended to carry on the war. Ho
wished to ask the noble lord whether the Government had
received any information on the subject ?
Lord J. RUSSELL—According to the information re-
ceived by the Government, three Russian corvettes of war
had been at Trieste ; two of them had been taken into the
inner harbour at Trieste, where they had been disarmed
and sold, and the third had proceeded to another harbour
to be sold

THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, MARCH 14, 1854.

only just that the earliest opportunity should be taken to
inform the commercial world of the course which her Ma-
jesty's Covernment intended to pursue. He hoped that they
were not to consider that the despatch of Lord Clarendon
was to be the rule which was to be adopted in the Baltic,
because such a rule would not only be calculated to create
collision with friendly powers and neutrals, but he was sure
it would not have any effect in bringing this war to a close,
but would, on the contrary, rather have the effect of pro-
longing it. He was sorry that the Government had not
long since informed the world of the course to be adopted
towards ships of friendly nations and the ships of English
subjects; because if this information be only given when
the ice broke up in the Baltic, and if merchants had made
their arrangements in ignorance of what the Government
intended to do, many persons would fairly complain that
they had been taken by surprise and robbed of property
which they thought themselves fairly entitled to retain.
The Government might have seen so long ago that war was
in the distance, and therefore they should have considered
what they ought to do with ships of friendly nations and
the rights of neutrals. This was a question which of all
others presented itself in former times in a pressing form ;
and unless it was dealt with in a better spirit, and on
different terms, it might bring us into collision with the
United States of America. If Lord Clarendon's despatch
were to be acted upon as good public law, every American
packet and merchant ship would be liable to be boarded by
British cruisers to rummage the cargo, in order to see
whether or not there were some bales or packages in which
directly or indirActly, the Russians had an interest ; and if
this discovery should be made, the cargoes would be carried
into port, and condemned by some Admiralty court. He
was in hopes that a sounder policy would be adopted, and
that free ships would free goods ; and that thus this coun-
try would be spared the great risk of being brought into
collision with friendly powers. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. WILSON said he wished to correct a mis-statement
of what he said on Friday night on this subject, which had
appeared in several of the public papers. The question put
to him had nothing to do with the imports to or exports
from Russia. It was solely a commercial question which
had been decided by the Treasury, having reference to
Russian produce imported by a neutral power in a neutral
ship, the property of neutral subjects. He was sorry to say
that his observations had been misreported in some of the
newspapers, while in others they were correctly given. The
question put to him was to this effect :—"lf Russian pro-
duce were shipped in a Russian port on board a Prussian
or other neutral vessel, was such produce to be held sacred
or liable to seizure ?

-7(a laugh) -whether itewas the intention' of the corpora-
I tion of London to build upon that site ?
Lord J. RUS iELL thought the hon. and learned gen-
tleman had done well to call the attention of the corpora-
tion of London to the matter. He, however, had had no
communication with the corporation on the subject, and,
therefore, was unable to give any answers
PROSECUTION OF In. SHAW.
Mr. LUCAS rose to repeat a question which he had put
to the Chancellor of the Exchequer on a previous occasion,
as to whether it was the intention of the Government to take
any further proceedings against Mr. Shaw of the Dublin
, Commercial Journal, for publishing a penny periodical un-
stamped ? When he asked this question before, the right
hon. gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) gave him
an answer which he (Mr. Lucas) believed was founded upon
a misapprehension of the facts. The right hon, gentleman
in contradiction of a statement made by him (Mr. Lucas),
then stated that the verdict of the jury was, as he was in-
, formed, in opposition to the charge of the judge. Since
then, he (Mr. Lucas) had seen a short-hand writer's notes
of the charge, and he was of opinion, as were also some
gentlemen whom he had consulted, that the verdict of the
jury was in strict accordance with the charge. He now
wished to ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he
still retained the opinion he had before expressed, and, if
he did not retain that opinion, whether it was the inten-
tion of the Crown to direct successive prosecutions until a
verdi .t in accordance with its wishes could be obtained
from a Dublin jury ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that he
had not referred to the charge of the judge since the last
occasion on which the question was put. Ho was not per-
sonally cognisant of the proceedings on the trial, but it
would be most surprising to him, if the authority from
whom he obtained his information should prove to have
been in error. At the same time he was not aware that
the conduct of the Government would of absolute neces-
sity depend upon the fact to which the hon. gentleman
had referred. The hon. gentleman had asked whether it
was the intention of the Government to raise successive
suits until they got a verdict in their favour. He (the
Chancellor of the Exchequer) had never said anything
which would imply that the Government had any such in-
tention. (Hear, hear.) The Government had acted in
compliance with the advice of their legal officers, under
whose consideration this matter now was ; and it was im-
possible for him to announce anything as to their future
intentions natil he had learned what was the advice given
them by those gentlemen.
BILL STAMPS.
In reply to a question from Mr. VANCE,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that he
should move that the order of the day for the committee on
the bill relating to the stamps on bills of exchange should
be read in order thatait might be postponed. He wished
the postponement of this committee in order that he
might enlarge the information which he possessed in regard
to the very difficult question of the amount of foreign bills
that were negociated in this country. On the motion of
the right hon. gentleman the order was read and postponed
until Monday next.
THE PACKET SERVICE.
Mr. FRENCH wished to know whether the answer
given by the First Lord of the Admiralty to the question
put to him on this subject by Mr. Herbert, represented the
opinion of the Government, or only that of himself, as the
head of a department?
Sir JAMES GRAHAM said that the answer which he
had given to the question referred to expressed the delibe-
rate opinion of the board over which he had the honour to
preside. •

RECEIPT STAMPS.
in reply to a question from Mr. G. HADFIELD,
The CHA.NCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
he had not yet fined any time for the introduction of the
bill for the amendment of the law as to receipt stamps,
which, however, he thought he should possibly be able to
introduce together with the bill relating to stamps on bills
of exchange.

ber of ads of cruelty and oppression towards the Christian
subjects of the Sultan. No doubt they have, and in
times gone by many excesses were committed by officers
acting under the authority of the Government. Of late
years, however, the practices of the Government itself
and of those o :leers have been entirely different. Ido
not for one moment wish to deny that there have been
acts committed by governors certainly deserving of the
greatest reprobation ; but, as was well observed by
my noble friend, great military enterprises have been
undertaken by the Sultan, and oftentimes at the instiga-
tion of the British Government, to punish and put down
such persons as have abused their authority ; and my
noble friend adverted, iu exemplification of this, to the
campaign which was waged against the Koord chieftain
who had committed such abominable excesses against the
Nestoriana. Well, therefore, as far as the conduct of the
Turkish Government is concerned, we have no reason to
complain of any cruel and tyrannical proceedings against
the Christian population of that country. With regard
to the Greek insurrection I confess I do not myself
share in the apprehension of those who consider that it
will spread itself to a very great extent ; while, at the
same time, we cannot shut our eyes to the fact that
its origin has not been wholly domestic. But, sir,
I can assure the house that the troops which have been
sent from this country are sent to uphold that great
cause in which she has engaged—a cause not such as it

appears to some gentlemen, fiel- our objects in this under-
taking are not to enter upon a religious war in Greece—
the object which the British Government has in view, and
the object which the country will beak out the Government
in endeavouring to attain, is the maintenance of those
great principles of national independence which concern
not Turkey alone, not merely the Governments of Russia
and Turkey, but all the great nations of Europe. and apply
to all the countries of the civilised world. (Hear, hear.)
Sir, we are going into this war not upon the narro
grounds upon which some hon. gentlemen have based the
question, but in defence of the rights and interests which
belong to Turkey in common with every other country of
Earope ; and I, therefore, hope that the house and the
country will see that that cause will require to be sup-
ported by a great effort, and I trust to Heaven that that
effort will be successful. (Cheers.)
Mr. GIBSON complained of the discordant opinions ex-
pressed by different Ministers of the Crown as to the object
of the war. He asked whether there was a convention, or
anything in writing, on the subject of the privileges of the
Christians in Turkey between the Governments of England
and France and Turkey, and, if so, whether it could be
placed on the table ? He protested against the doctrine
that we were entitled to rivet any government upon any
country, contrary to the wishes of the people.
Sir R. PEEL, believing that the conduct of the Govern-
ment would bear the closest scrutiny, thought Parliament
was entitled to express its opinion upon the condition of
the Christians in Turkey. The Greek insurrectionary
movement was not the result of any immediate crisis in
Eastern affairs; it was the consequence of a state of things
which had long engaged the solicitude of different statesmen.
Mr. DRUMMOND described the embarrassments which
must inevitably attend any interference on behalf of the
Christians of Turkey, and advised the Government to ab-
stain from so hazardous an attempt.
There being no amendment before the house, the discus-
sion here terminated.