The Sun.
London, England, 1853-08-09 00:00:00

Hampton Court and the gardens at Kew, during the years
1851 and 1852, distinguishing the number in each month
(in continuation of Parliamentary paper, No. 685, of ses-
sion 1851).—Agreed to.
TURKEY AND RUSSIA.
Sir J. WALMSLEY said—l have to put a question to
the noble lord the member for London, upon a subject
which is deeply interesting to the people of this country
generally, but more especially to the mercantile classes,
and which I believe also very nearly concerns the dignity
and the responsibility of every member of this house. The
question I have to ask of the noble lord is, whether her
Majesty's Government will, previously to the prorogation
of Parliament, submit to the House of Commons, a state-
ment of the existing relations between this country, Tur-
key, and Russia, touching the aggressive attitude assumed
by Russia towards the Sublime Porte, and whether they
for the expression of the opinion of
will appropriate a day
the house upon that important subject?
Lord J. RUSSELL.—In answer to the hon. gentleman
I have to state, with respect to his first question, that be-
fore the prorogation of Parliament, I will give such infor-
mation on the subject of the existing relations between
Russia and Turkey as I may think consistent with my
sense of public duty. In answer to the second question of
the hon. member, I cannot ssy that I think it would be
advisable for the public interest that in the present state
of the negotiations between Russia and Turkey there
should be any day devoted to a general discussion of that
subject. (Hear, hear.)
Lord D. STUART.—A rumour of the most important
character has been circulated in the public prints of to-
day. I allude to the rumour that the Emperor of Russia
has agreed to certain proposals which have been submitted
to him by the different powers of Europe for the adjust-
ment of the differences between Russia and Turkey. I
wish to ask whether the noble lord can state that there is
any truth in that rumour, and that we are now nearer to
a pacific solution of that question than we were a fe w days
ago. _ _

Lord J. RUSSELL—In answer to the question of my
noble friend, I have to state that there is a foundation for
the rumour to which he has alluded—(hear, hear)—and that
we have just received a dispatch from her Majesty's minis-
at Vienna, which is of a very satisfactory nature. (Hear-)
The answer which has been received from the Court of St.
Petersburg is in reply to the first proposal which was
agreed to at Vienna. I have further to state that the
messenger who was to have gone to Constantinople, and
who, as I said on a former occasion, would leave Vienna
on the 31st of July, did not actually leave Vienna until
the 2d of August ; so that the reply from Constantinople
cannot be received as soon as it was at first expected.
Sir DE LACY EVANS—WiII the noble lord communi-
cate the promised information at such a time as will enable
thelouse to discuss the question?

Lord J. RUSSELL— I beg to explain that what I said
was that I would give such information as it would be in
my power to give consistently with my sense of public
duty ; and I think that it will bo more satisfactory that I
should give that information the latest moment before the
prorogation of Parliament.
Mr. LA.YARD—Am I to understand that there will be
a discussion of the question before the proragation ?
Lord J. RUSSELL—As far as the Government are con
cerned, it is not their opinion that it is desirable there
should be a discussion. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. FRENCH asked the Chief Commissioner of Woods
whether any intention exists in his department to deprive
the Irish representative of those facilities of reference and
communication hitherto afforded by the existing Irish
establishment in Queen-street, by removing from it the
Irish records and officials, to make way for some subordi-
nate department of English administration ?
Sir W. MOLESWORTH replied that a complaint had
been made of a want of sufficient accommodation at the
Irish establishment in Queen-street, and the Board of
Works had under their consideration a proposal for a
removal of that inconvenience. But no kind of determi-
nation had yet been come to in the matter. If the Irish
records and officials should be removed, due care would be
taken to provide for the facilities of reference and commu-
nication on the part of the Ifish members.
In reply to a question from Sir J. WALMSLEY,
Lord J. RUSSELL said that the minute of the Com-
mittee of Council on the subject of the building of schools
would soon be produced.
THE REVIEW OF THE FLEET AT SPITHEAD.
Mr. OLIVEIRA said he wished to put a question to
the right hon. baronet the First Lord of the Admiralty.
It was well known that a grand review of the fleet at Spit-
head was to take place on Thursday next, and he under-
stood that it was the intention of the authorities at the
Admiralty to afford facilities to members of Parliament
for assisting at that interesting spectacle. He wished to
ask the right hon. baronet what was to be the extent of
those facilities, and whether hon. members would have an
opportunity of taking their ladies with them ?
Sir J. GRAHAM—The question which the hon. gentle-
man has put to me is hardly of a Parliamentary—(a
laugh)—or of an official character; but the house will,
perhaps, pardon me if I give the beat answer in my power
to that question. I have received her Majesty's commands
to place at the disposal of each of the two houses of Par-
liament a ship of war for that occasion. Acting in obedi-
ence to these commands, and seeing that this house is
composed of a larger number of members than the other,
the ship placed at the disposal of the members of the House
of Lords is one of 950 tons, and somewhere about 280
horse-power, while the ship placed at the disposal of the
members of this house is one of nearly 1,200 tons and 500
horse-power. There will be employed at the review about 30
ships of war, and with that number there will be very few
ships which can be appropriated to the accommodation of
any portion of the public. The ship to be placed at the
disposal of the members of this house will contain, I
believe, about 200 gentlemen. But I have to add that
those members who wish to be present on the occasion will
have an opportunity of putting down their names, and if
to-morrow, at four o'clock, it should appear that there are
a greater number of those names than 200, I will endeavour
to provide additional' accommodation. (Hear, hear.) I
think that the house will agree with me that if provision
is made for the accommodation of members themselves, it
can hardly be expected that any should be made for their
ladies. (Hear, hear.) lam afraid that greater difficulty
will be found in providing means of conveyance for per-
sons anxious to assist at the review, from London to Ports-
mouth. than in providing ship accommodation for them at
the latter place, Bat arrangements have been !made by
which a special train will be provided for the conveyance
of members of the two houses of Parliament. That train
will leave the Waterloo station at an hour so early on
Thursday morning, that I am almost afraid to mention it.
(A laugh.) It will cleave at half-past six o'clock, and will
arrive at Portsmouth at about half-past nine o'clock. I
believe that ample accommodation will thus be provided
for the members of the two houses of Parliament.

Mr. HU3IE--The next best thing would be to provide
that the railway should take them free. (A laugh.)
Sir J. GRAHAM.—The arrangement will be the very
reverse. Each member will pay for himself. (A laugh.)
Captain SCOBELL.—WiII there be a special return
train for members of Parliament ?
Sir J. GRAHAM—Yes.

THE DEBATE ON THE NUNNERIES QUESTION.
Lord J. RUSSELL moved that on Wednesday next the
Government orders of the day should have precedence
until three o'clock.

Mr. BOUVERIE said he thought it would be better
that the Government orders should have precedence
throughout the whole of the day, and that the words
" until three o'clock " should be omitted from the motion.
Mr. NEWDEGATE said he regretted to find that the
noble lord proposed to appropriate to government business
the only day in the week which remained at the disposal of
independent members. (Hear, hear.) The result of the
adoption of that motion would be, that it would be impos-
sible for them to have a decision at all in the present ses-
sion upon that question of the nunneries which had already
beene so frequently under their consideration. He had no
thseitation in saying that he should prefer the proposal of
because
one of eaVl'llile it
member for Kilmarnock to that of the noble lord,
could only lead to the same result, it was
unjust interference should
be no
and a more reasonable character. But he
arty to what he considered would be a most
that house ; :peril) with the ordinary course of business in
house against the
to
of the noble lord.
c should, therefore, take the sense of the
Mr. CHAMB
culty in acceding to the said that there would be less diffi-
would afford facilities 0 proposal of the noble lord, if he
sion on some other day. r the. termination of that discus-
nhon. member, who, like him,
had brought before the house question of that character,
had serious responsibility irapaosted upon him, and could
eoiement of the decision
not consent to the indefinite
of the house with respect to iPte.B
Lord J. RUSSELL said, that (Hear'laciAllenal..2f his motion
not in February
say that they should
was, that they were then in August
or March. It was manifestly desirable'
fieastzuld lead
troboeytioeneilifOrl
then proceed with that business only which really conclude ; and he need hardly
a select committee on the condition ofpnerraeor
to no result at the present advanced
The hon. member for Hertford should recollectdth.afto:ty.
had not then to discuss the bill he had introduce
motion for the second reading of that bill had been set
aside by the decision of a majority of the house. (Rear.)
Mr. SPOONER would prefer the whole subject were
postponed to having it brought forward at 3 o'clock in the
afternoon. He altogether dissented from the views of the
noble lord • and ho should say these were mere attempts
on '
the part of the noble lord (J. Russell) to put a stop to
a discussion which he dared not meet. (Loud cries of
" hear, hear," from the Opposition.) The noble lord had
lately given evidence of his vacillation on these points.
(Hear, hear.) The Charitable Trusts Bill exempted from
inquiry all bequests of Roman Catholics—(hear, hear)—
and the noble lord now said, "you shall not enter theirh
convents." (Hear, hear.) Was this course consistent wit
the spirit lately shown, the spirit which dictated the
h,
fa-
mous Durham letter. (Cheers, and cries of ' Oh, o .')
Was this course consistent with the language employed by
the noble lord on the occasion of the motion of the hon.
member for Mayo to despoil the Irish Church of its tem-
poralities? (Cheers from the Opposition.) He hoped his
'lon. friend would take the sense of the house on the ques-
tion. (Cheers.)
,r_35,lY- HUME suggested the postponement of the question
e L after full inquiry by a committee.
Mr' BUTT doubted -
the the sincerity of
member
for
Warwickshire,in bringing forward the
pendent members
the hon. gentleman
question at the present
Mr. LUCAS could
hrt period, when nearly half
a left town. (Hear, hear.) the inde-
pendent
did
not ,
.n_a,ssure hon. gentlemen that he or his
they were anxioussnn to from discussion; un the contrary,
brought on was, that he
, the house. One reasounnr the subject brought before
wished the subject to be
mightae call on the hon, member for
North Warwickshire to ttheeor certain seches made
by him in that house, in which
with whom he (Mr. Ls) acted charged hon.
was met with loud en t 1
cries e n
proceedings. (Hear, hear.) With unparhamentarY
Mr. NE WDEGATE rose, but
intimated to the hon. gentleman that he
of ~ chait" and " Order."
The SPEAKER
should confine his observations to matters of explanation.