The Sun.
London, England, 1854-03-07 00:00:00

that I didnot know in the month of March what would be
the state of trade,- what would be the character of the
harvest, what. would-be the state of Europe in the latter
part of the year. (Hear, hear.) The right „bon. gentlemen
aays that these things have nothing to do with the matter.
Nothing to doe with. the. Matter ! Nothing to do with the
rate of, interest upon Exchequer-bills. Why, if the rigeit
hon. gentlemanewill investigate papers relating to the finances
of the country, • let him • investigate some other papers: Let
him ask himself what was the state of all these symptothe
- which deteirtnined•the condition of trade—which determined
the staterof-the money -market at the beginning of last year;
and what was the state of trade and of the money market at
the latter part of last year. Let him ask himself what was
the state of the bullion in the Bank of England in January,
and what was its condition in September ; what was the price
of corn in January, and what was the price in Oct. and Nov.;.
'What was the rate of -discionit. charged• by the Bank in' Jan.,
' and what MS the rate chargedin.Sept. InSept. (Hear.) I have not
by me the returns as to what tee rate of discount was in Jan.
I am quoting from memory; but I believe I am correct in say-
. ing that it was 2e per cent. • [An Hon. MEMBER-2 per cent.]
Well, certainly,. not more -than .2e, In Sept. the rata of dis-
count had advanced to 5 per cent., -and the right hon. gentle-.
man, forsooth, wants to make me responsible for this increase.,
(Hear.) But the right hon. gentleman who thus passes by
facts which, ought to be plain as the sun at noon day—
. 'Mr. DISRAELI—I only referrcdto the fall in the price of
Consols. '
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER.—The right hon.
gentleman shall have that subject by and by. The right hon.
• gentlereati made no reference to the increased rate of discount
Charged by the. Bank of England, to the rise in the price of
coin, to the state of the bullion in the bank ; but he does re-
, fer to the 'operation with reepeet td Exchequer-bills, as if it
had been is mere freak on the part of the Chancellor of the
Exchequer, charging upon me the additional expense he
said it entailed upon the country. But, sir, the right hon.
gentleman is not correct in his facts. The right honourable
gentleman is not right in saying that there was any loss at
all in consequence of what 'I did in respect to Exchequer-
; nor does he' give a fair or true 'representation of the
case as it regards the premiums upon these Exchequee-bills.
Why the right hon.. gentleman, it may be observed, after
telling us whatieas the rate of premium upon Exchequer-
. bills before the interest was reduced—instead of giving us the
rate of-premium just after the interest was reduced, when it
Would haVe been alaiepeesumption that the reduction aed-
' nothing else was-Operating-epasses on to the month 'of May,.
while the reduction was announced in the inOnth-of February.
,(llear.) He says the preinfuni in May was down to 2s. ; and
so it Was e other circumstances were then in operation. But
my justification is this' with 'regale' to the reduction of the
rate of interest :—No annualsechriey ought to bear a high
premium. (Hear:) It is an absurdity upon the face of et
that an annual security the whole interest upon which
amounts to 455, should be at a premium of 60s. I mean, pf
course, that the holder of the security has only the guarantee
that he will be paid his rate of interest for 12 months, and,
therefore, if at the expiration of that time he is paid off at
par, he gets 15s. less than no interest at all. (Hear.) This
absurd state. of things—a state of things which ties up the
hands of the Government;-maker.. it impossible:for them to
, redeem these securities with the 'balances which are then in
the Bank. The only, waY, :by: Which I could reduce the
amount .of Mile:tided debt'evae by bringing Exchequer-bills to.
something like a reasonable premium. lam sorry I have not
now ;before me the statement' 'which I had in my hands a few
days ago, showing the price of Exchequerbille after the re-
duction ; but, speaking from.memory, I think the right hon.
• . gentleman will Ape thee for two months after the reduction
the premium upon Exchequer-bills ran between 10s. and 20s.
,The right hon.. gentleman. has stated that there has been a
loss to the country Of 3(1;000/.' and what does he mean by
that, statement I - He means to make me responsible for the
occurrences of thOse' Various' circumstances which' rendered
It necessary to 'raise the rate of, interest, quite forgetting.
'Jr' that, although he accuses me of causing.that result, he might,'
‘';" by referring to what had taken place in France, where there
f is no imprudent and rash. Chancellor of the Exchequer, have
observed that the same. cantles which rendered it necessary to
• raise the rate of interest .in this country had operated there
•. th even ineee effect, , Well, sir, the right hon. gentleman
a said Wit there has been aloes to the country of 36,000 e,
tebiehld have been Very glad if that statement had been
explained; for it is, I confess, to me a perfect mystery. (Hear,
hear.) I say more —I 'say that the right hon. gentleman is
completely in error—(cheers)—and I say that, notwithstand-
ing the unfavourable circumstances of the autumn, and not-_
withstanding the doubling of the rate of interest, which those
circumstances brought about, there has been on the whole a
' !eying effected. In the year 1852-53 the amount paid was
467,0061„ while in the year 1853-54 it has only been 347,0001.,
. and that is the state as regards the Exchequer. The right'
hon. geetleman says that I persisted in acting contrary to the'
warnings, of eve,ry kipd addressed- to me by all the .wise men
in Parliament, although he hemiself was too modest to offer
his advice. I will admit that ieveral, hon. gentlemen did
entertain doubts of the success of the plan, and the words bf
the hon. member foe Huntingdon turned out right. The right
hon. gentleman spoke, however, as if I had acted contrary to.
the whole course of public. opinion, -both' in and out of the
, house. But what were the facts ?. Why, the whole course of
, the criticisms.ef the right hon. gentleman and his friends, at
that time, were 'against the terms I was offering to the public
creditor ; 'they declared over and over again that they were
• too good for the public creditor, and against the interests Of
the public. (Hear, hear.), Was no such opinion expressed
In this house ? Why; whom do I 'see opposite. I see the.
Jslid'us 4 chAtes of the 'right hon. gentleman, the honourable
end learned member for Suffolk (Sir F. Kelly), who recreated
his powerful mind with all manuar of facts and fancies as to
the bargain I was proposing,.-Did he not enjoy the confidence
and Possess the sympathy of .the right hon. gentleman;?
Did he not fairly exhaust the English vocabulary, and drag
• 'out of it every epithet which its resources could -furnish, in
. order to , reprehend, me for the- extravagant, the monstrous,
• .the the wasteful, ,the. • utterly incredible project
of offering aguarantee. O; gi per cent. for forty years ? (Hear,
hear.) The' right, hon. `
gentleman says he_ has been denidd
, the Itheity 'of tliscussine these subjects. No, sir, I have net.
dtiiiea it td au& x• never will, So long as ho uses the
liberty as lee has clone tonight. (Cheers.) Do not, however,,
let me ley all the'responsibility Of the course then taken upOn
the iffimilders of the hen. and leathed gentlemat the member'
fOrilauffolk. To do him justice, I must say he never shrunk,
from his opinions, though I. differed from him at the time;
and the house will do. ;me the justice to remember that,
never held !oue 'any great .expectation of immediate results.
(Hear, hear; But what wag done, by the right hon. gentle-
leen himself 1-; What, did, he say ? Did he tell me that the
scheme Wet& fail, because the public creditor would not ac-
cept it I No, sir! He saysithis was not a simple error of
mine, but that it was an error in defiance of all advice and
• all warning given hi the course of the diseuseiou. And holy
does he make out that case 1 He saysethat in December the
Price of Consols was 1014; This was' when Lord Derby's
governeneut went out. Consols, he says, went down directly
afterwarde ,le per cent.; and I thought it was great modesty
On the,part of. the right hon. gentleman that he did not at-
tempt, at this period, to join together pause and effect, and
to state, at' once. that the fall took place because Lord Derby's
Goveriement Were out (A leugh.) lam so ~however, to
6.1) that this' very-plain stattment of the right hon. gentle-
fn susceptible of frd edsy explanation, to 'which lam
Under the necessity of begging his attention. His case was.
tiliet-:.-itiethe month of beeember the price of 1001. Consols
Ras 1014 ; and in. the month' of February, when Parlia-
ment met, the price of Consols was 99 and a fraction.; '
( (that, consequently, was a decrease of fully 1e 'per- cent.
(near, hear.) Now, , did it never occur to the right hon. gen--
. tleraan to. ask himself whether anything had ever happened
lir the `'meantime:- ' (Hear.) lam aline it Ought to have
done. He quotes ,the price, of Consols at the end of De-.
camber at 101,}'; lieppened on the 'sth of *January
. to' thei lidders 'potialee 'Why, litpon the sth of January
riet4;ed Ir, 10e., tlite half-yearly interest, the precise
iiraceint, br tie&rlyeice by which the price had fallen. (Hear,
• • leiter) . There wits; however, 'a greet deal of discussion in this'
lonise Obuithe probability of_ the 'permanent lowness of the
rate Of interest. I.need not remind the house, because the
house well 'remembers theni, of the positive opinions on this,
. Subject of illa hon. and' learned , member for Suffolk. I was
• never bold 4tough to give any opinion upon . that subject.
When I brOught.forward my proposal I did not venture to
follhd anything so-unstable as anYppinions of my own
as to the permanent rate of Interest. I founded it upon the
fact that'there 'appeared to be e state of public feeling which
Would secure such aitemount of agrecnient upon the plan es'
Would make'tliii-eiPeiiment worth trying. Any gentleman
Who mill peed theestatementi made at thetime 'will find that
that is their scope a.ud_stradne But the right hon. gentleman
Who now comes forward to , show ,up my weakness and frail-'
. ties, hati he never deleit'with this subject of ,the permanent
levniess olio rate of interest? , Yes, sir, he dealt with it in
Dteenibei e(Hear, hear.):' In December he spoke of inereas-
• lug arid-confirming the credit Of this country in consequence
of the'discovery of gold. He' said, -" But, .sir; although the.
. Tate of profit depends upon the rate of wages, that is not the
Only elethent in this 'great, question. There is another ele-
ment stillnioreitiportant in its solution, and that is the rate.
cf-hiteeteste 'I ihaintain that it has not only given activity to
commerce, but that it has, influenced . the commercial opera-
trona i f thhe country to an extent whichno other article could
have "exercised. I saythat the discovery of gold, considering
the currency, which we possess, has established credit in this
Country in a thaimei'which no political economist could ever-
have imagined. ' I say that it has increased and 'confirmed-
credit inthis country, and that increase and 'confirmation of
credit has;'Of idurse, proportionably increased the dmploy-
• scent of the people. It would seem to 'be mere blind and ob-
stinnte prejudiCe' to shut' our eyes to that conclusion. But
there is another. question ,to be considered in 'regard to our
prosperity at thie moneent, and that is, will the present low
• rate of interest last ? I hope it will. 'Me opinion is—though it is,
Perhaps, imprudent in ens now to volunteerit—my opinion is,-
occur—and I need not say that
that Whatever imprudences may
I:deprecab6. there', hot, notwithstauding some Imprudences—
, .tele-eiresent rate of interest will mainly continue:" Such were
the vatitinations of the-right holiontable gentleman—of him
• who 'reproaches me in this house to-night for not having fore--
'.Caen 'what Would happen six or eight menthe before it 'oc-
curred, andfor not thinkfifg the state of polities anything ;
and what will be thought of him who, considering nee respoh-
, , nible for reducing the rate Of interest, prophesied himself that
the then low rate of interest was to be "mainly permanent ?"
(Rear.) That was in Deceinber, That was before the fall of
t. 14 Per cent. in Consols. But, sir, I ant now about to quote
Sonae language used by the•right hon.• 'gentleman 'at another
time, in the midst of the very discussions on this abominable
bill of mine, finding fault with reee-for what ? Not for dis-
• lathing the money market with-experiments whichmust prove
• . abortive.--not for proposing a scheme calculated to meet the
difficulty of the case in my view, though ho might not agree
with, me---but still, on the old doctrine that the rate of in-
• terest wan too high. (Hear.) What was the speech of the
right hon. gentleman? He gave a long display of all the
magnificent reductions in the interest, of the national debt,'
• from Walpole dowuweads, and said that all our reductions
amounted only to the contemptible sum of 600,0001., upon
' 500,000,000/. of debt....-This was the argument of the right
honourable gentleman; but it went upon the doctrine—the
very opposite and contradictory doctrine to that which he has
broached to-night—the doctrine that the terms offered were
' both extravagant to the public creditor and unjust to the na-
tion. He ".If the committee agreed to the conversion of
the whole of 506,000,0001., under the second resolution, he
• must remind the committee that the 'profit .of the country
would bunt little exceed 550,0001. a year; and they should well
consider whether, for such an object as reducing the interest
of the debt by 500,000/. sterling, they would do right to fix
the rate of interest at 2} per cent. for more than forty years."
It was too bad a bargain -for the public to fix the rate of
Merest at 24 per cent. and give them a guarantee of forty
-years. That was the opinion of the right honourable gentle-.
„luali—(hear,.hear)--tbat is.his opinion- still. Very well ;if it
•in so, let us know how the matter stands. If he holds to the
- °Pillion, let him enjoy it; but if be thinks that 24 per cent.
was too high a rate of interest, with a guarantee of forty
Years, do not let him now find fault with me for having done
wrong to the stockholder by offering those terms. This state
anent was made on the Bth of April, long after the fall in
cellsols. (sear, hear.) The right honourable gentleman
aeYe the bill was pitied in such breathless haste that a great
error was committed in it—that it was found that the parties
could not get their money, 'and that the new bill was pushed
through with only twenty members in this house. The right
h°lloll.rable gentleman surely has been indulging in the pewee-
ful faculty of his iniaginatioo. He may be right; is not
for she to dispute what he asserts so confidently ; but all I
can say is, that the whole of that strange assertion is entirely 1
caw to me. I am-not aware that in consequence of the haste
"itki IThicll the bill Trats pabied error WU committed, Which I