The Sun.
London, England, 1854-05-30 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY- EVENING, MAY 301 1854.

INIPERIJ

TA MENT.

„s;: ,

th,s day

this :lay.

R ATLWAY&

HOUSE OF COMMONS-(YESTERDAY.)

THE WAR CORRESPONDENTS OF THE LONDON

PAPERS.
Mr. DIGBY SEYMOUR wished to ask some member
of her Majesty's Government if it was true, as reported,
that the correspondents of the London papers, to whom
the public was indebted for so many interesting details re-
specting the war, would not be allowed to accompany the
expeditionary army ?
No answer being returned,
Mr. SEYMOUR asked the question specifically of the
noble lord the member for the City of London. The noble
lord not being in his place, Mr. Seymour begged to put it
to the First Lord of the Admiralty.
Sir J. GRAHAM—I have no connection whatever with
tho movements of the army. (Loud cheers.)
Mr. SEYMOUR, amidst much laughter and cries of
" order," next essayed to draw au answer from the Secre-
tary-at-War ; but the attempt was unsuccessful.
CANTS RBURY BRIBERY PREVENTION BILL.
The order of the day for the second reading being read,
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said, that even if the
house should assent to the second reading of this bill, there
would arise such serious difficulties in its subsequent stages
that he despaired of being able to carry it the ough Parlia-
ment during the present session. (gear, hear.) ire would
presently state what those difficulties were, but be was
bound also to say, that since the bill was last before the
house circumstances had arisen which would go a consi-
derable way towards impugning the principle upon which
it had been framed. Hon. gentlemen who were present at
the former discussion would do him the justice to remem
ber that when it was contended on the other side that the
disfranchisement of the voters guilty of bribery would be
a violation of the immunity which had been guaranteed
them, he asserted that as a lawyer he could not bring him-
self to believe the immunity granted them by the act to be
anything more than au immunity from the penalties im-
posed by law in respect of bribery ; or that it went the
length of tying up the hands of Parliament from taking
such proceedings as it might think necessary for the pur-
pose of rescuing the different electoral bodies from the state
of corruption into which they had fallen. While, however,
he asserted that, they would also do him the justice to re-
member he most freely and unhesitatingly admitted that,
if it could be shown, whether in this house or indeed out
of it, that language had been used calculated to lead the
voters to a belief that a bargain had been made, the terms
of which were, that if they made a full disclosure to the
commissioners they should receive as a reward complete
absolution and exemption from all the consequences, penal,
legal, or legislative, with respect to the deeds of which they
had confessed themselves guilty—if such language had been
used, he had said ho should be the last man in the world to
ask the house to disfranchise those voters. (Hear, hear.)
For although it appeared to him to be in the last degree
necessary that Parliament should purify those electoral
bodies from the slough of corruption into which they had
fallen, yet even that object would be dearly purchased by
the sacrifice of the public faith. (Hear, hear.) Now, he
was bound to say that since the bill was read a first time,
some cause bad been shown on the part of the voters, that,
whether rightly or wrongly, a general impression did pre-
vail among them to the effect that if they made a clean
breast to the commissioners with respect to the corruption
in which they had participated they would not, be visited
with any of the consequences of their acts, whether legal
or legislative. (Hear, hear.) Under these circumstances
many members on both sides of the house had been strongly
opposed to proceeding further with the bill, and others
entertained doubts as to the propriety of doing so. Thus
the right honourable gentleman the member for Midhurst
(Mr. Walpole), than whom no one could be more sin-
cere and anxious in his desire for the repression of
bribery, had strongly objected to the bill; and many
honourable members of great authority on that (the
Ministerial) side, had taken a similar view of the matter.
(Hear.) Besides, since this and the other bills had been
read a first time, the schedules had been found to con-
tain various and not unimportant errors. These errors ap-
peared in some instances to have been made by the com-
missioners themselves; but still more frequently the in-
accuracies appeared to have been committed in transcrib-•
ing and printing their reports. In some instances the
names of innocent parties had been placed in the schedules;
in others the parties were incorrectly described ; and in
others again they were not described at all. It was quite
clear that he could not propose to disfranchise the per-
sons whose names were contained in the schedules without
some inquiry ; but then came the question, by what tri-
bunal should the inquiry be conducted ? Not before the
commissioners, because having made their report, they
were functi officio, and their jurisdiction had ceased ; not
before a committee of the house, because it had not the
power of administering an oath ; and he need not point
out the inconvenience of a tribunal sitting to revise upon
unsworn evidence a report founded upon evidence given
under an oath. (Hear, hear.) With such difficulties in
his way, he could not ask the house to proceed any further
with the bills before them. (Cheers.) This was a result
which he contemplated with considerable regret, for the
state of these constituencies was a scandal to the repre-
sentative system, and a reproach to Parliament. (Hear.)
In every one of them there were persons so inured to bri-
bery and venality that they valued their votes only as a
means of making money ; and though these persons were
in themselves a minority, yet they influenced the re-
sult of every election as much as if a majority of the elec-
tors had been bribed. (Hear.) At the same time it would
hardly have been just to have disfranchised such places as
Hull, Cambridge, or Canterbury, for the fault of a minority;
and therefore the only course left open to the Government
seemed to be to proceed upon the principle involved in the
bills, which he now felt obliged, for the reasons he had
stated, to abandon. At the same time something ought to
be done, for it was hopeless to expect a pure and free elec-
tion so long as things remained in their present state.
Some good might be done in the less corrupt constituences
by the general measures which had been recently brought
in ; but he confessed he was not very sanguine that by any
general measures they would be able to prevent bribery
whore it had once taken root. (Hear.) He believed that
at the next general election it would again-be necessary •to
issue commissions to inquire into these constituencies ; and
ho trusted that in future there would be no misapprehen-
sion as to the true construction to be put upon the act of
Parliament. He trusted that the assent given by a ma-
jority of the house to the present bills on their first reading
would teach these voters that although in the present in-
stance, Parliament might from a feeling of scrupulousness
on the point of public faith, proceed no further against
them, the act of Parliament which was compulsory on
them to give evidence even of their own misconduct, only
exempted them from the penal consequences of their acts,
and would not prevent Parliament on another occasion
from depriving them of that franchise which
given them for the public good, but which they had used
for their own private ends, and which they had shown
themselves utterly unworthy. (Loud cheers.) He begged
now to move that the order for the second reading of the
bill before the house be discharged.
Sir F. THESIGER admitted the perfect fairness with
which the Attorney-General had acted, and thanked him
for having relieved gentlemen on that side of the house
from the imputation of having the opposed bills from a
desire to screen the offenders. There was no one in the
house that more abhorred bribery than himself, and he
thought that there could be no more appropriate or effec-
tive punishment than the perpetual disfranchisement of
the
the
guilty parties. It was only, therefore, because lie ft
public faith had been pledged, that he had any scruple at
leaving these people to their fate. He could not, however,
help noticing the haste and carelessness with which the
bills had been drawn. The hen. and learned gentleman
had given a few instances ; and it had actually been pro-
posed in one of the schedules to disfranchise two women.
The parties who had prepared that schedule must have an-
ticipated the happy time when universal suffrage was to
prevail, and they had determined to take precautions that
Elizabeth Williams and Jane Moon should not participate
in the general benefit. (Laughter.) On another more im-
portant matter he felt bound to make an observation. The
commissioners had reported, in respect of several candidates
that bribery was committed for their benefit, and with their
knowledge and assent—(hear)—and against one person,
whom he would not name, there was a report in precisely
the same terms in respect of the elections of 1841, 1847,
and 1852. On looking into the schedules of the persons to
be disfranchised for giving bribes in the name of that indi-
vidual, he found they were not there. (Hear, hear-) Un-
doubtedly, there had been great haste and great want of
consideration in the mode in which these schedules had been
prepared. (Hear, hear.) Seeing the view now taken by
the Government, it was to be regretted that they had not
arrived at it at an earlier period, for all the materials were
before them, and that they had not abstained from pre-
senting to the house this bill, which they now confessed it
was impossible for them to carry. (Hear, hear.) He was
justified in the course he had proposed with respect to
these bills. The character of the house would. ha
andvehe, been
compromised by prosecuting them further ; of
course, agreed in the motion for their withdravral h
Mr. W. STANLEY said it was with regret he ad seen
the course taken by the Attorney-General; and
theyha could
not help thinking that the Government, when . came
to consider the whole proceeding, would andof opinion that
Parliament was trifling with legislation, was. not sin-
Parliament
in its desire to put down corruption. Disirauchi sin-
cere
was the proper course to bo taken in these cases ; and
certainly there was evidence sufficient before the house to
justify it. He thought there had been very.great negli-
gence on the part of the officers of the Crown in cons
inistersider-
ine this question. The house entrusted them, as M
of the Crown, to bring in some measure that would answer
the ends of justice ; the ends of justice were now defeated;
and there was no proposition on the part of Government
to punish these boroughs, which were a disgrace to the
country. He could not allow the order to be discharged
without expressing his opinion that the course of the Go-
vernment was one of very considerable suspicion.
Mr. V. SMITH thought the Government had done per-
fectly right in withdrawing the measure ; the only thing to
be regretted was that it was ever introduced. (Hear, hear.)
The Attorney-General had stated that there was a select
committee sitting up stairs upon the bribery bills, who
might perhaps recommend something more efficient than
the present law ; but then he had not stated what course
or would advise the
the Government meant to pursue,
house to pursue as to the issue of the writs. (Hear.) If
these bills were withdrawn it would be open to any one to
move the issue of any of these writs on giving a single day's
notice.
Lord J. RUSSELL—Seven days.
Mr. SMITH said it was therefore advisable to know
from the Government what was their intention in the
event of such a motion being made. Would they ask the
house to suspend the writs until the bribery bills were
disposed of?
Lord J. RUSSELL said it certainly was a disappoint-
ment to him that the measure which he had introduced for
a committee of inquiry, in order to ascertain bribery,
and then to punish and prevent such bribery, had been
only partially successful. He said partially successful, be-
cause it was a great matter that the house should have the
means, which it had not before, of obtaining by evidence
upon the spot full and complete proof that certain
elections had been carried by bribery. That was cer-
tainly one stop towards amendment. But he trusted
that the measures, which had been referred to a se-
lect committee up stairs, upon which the members of that
committee had taken very great pains, would be brought
before the house in such a shape that they might at all
events provide a remedy for this evil. It certainly was
the opinion of the Government evil.
c
writs for these
boroughs should not be issued until these bills had been
disposed of. If they were approved by Parliament there
would be a chance that those disgusting scenes which took
and which were detailed in the reports
place at elections,
of the commissioners, would not be repeated at those elec-
tions. If those bills were rejected by that or the other
house, he did not think there would be sufficient ground
for refusing to issue the writs ; though he should lament if
returns were to be made by the same corrupt constituencies
as had hitherto in most instances decided those elections.
Mr. G. BUTT said that what had been suggested by the
noble lord ought not to operate as a reason for suspending
the writs. The committee on the bribery bills was most
anxious to submit to the house A measure which he trusted

all Aqua Fria
all Anglo Austrin. Gold
all Anglo Californian
2 Australasian
6' kustralian
all Australian Cordillera
all Australian Freehold
all Ave Maria
all Baden (Gd. Duchy o 1)
all Blaenarvon Ir. & Coal
all British Austrin. Gold
13.:") British Iron .
24 Brazilianlmp.(issued

at £5 pm
all Do. Cocacs & Cuiada
15 Do. St. John Del Rey
Carson's Creek
Clarendon Con. Min
Co. of Jamaica.-
all Cobra Copper
1 Colonial Gold
15 Copiapo
all Copper Min. of Eng
all Do. Pref. 7i p. cent.
all English and Austen.
Copper Smeltg. Co.
all General
all Great Nugget Vein
all Do. Registered
all Great Polgooth
all Liberty
all Linares
all Lond.&Californ.Gold
Quartz Crush. Co
all Mariquita
9 Mexican&S.Americn
all New Granada
all New Linares Mining
-and Smelting Co
all Nouveau Mondo
all Pontgibaud Silver.
Lead Min. & Smelt
1 Port Philip
all Quartz Rock
all illiyinuoy Iron
15 Do. New
10i Santiago de Cuba „.
all .south Australian
7 fin Croft
all United Mexican
all Waller
all West Granada
all West Mariposa
12s. Worthing Mining 01
Australia

all I Yuba

JOINT-STD

all ikustralasia
all British Colonial Bank
and Loan Company
all British N. American
5 Chartd. Bank of Asia
2 Chrttl, Bnk. of India,
Australia, & China
25 ~;*olonial
20 Commercial of Lond.
12 Eng,lish Scottish and
Australian
20 Loud. Chart. Bk. of
Australia
20 Loudon and County
10 London Joint Stock..
20 bond. & Westminster
35 National Provincial
of Eng1and............
10 Do. New ...............
226 National of Ireland..
all New South Wales....
all 9riental Bank of

46 - 48

Corporation
5 Do. New
25 Provincial of Ireland
all Do. New
1 ',loyal Australn.likg
& Gold Imp Co
all Mouth Australia
all Union of Australia
2, Do. New
10 union of London

:ii. - 43
r 74
70 -'-'. "0
7 - 8

Mr. John Wood, Chairman of the Board of Inland
Revenue, and Mr. Timm had an interview with the
Chancellor of the Exchequei ; Sir Alexander Spearman
had also an interview with the right hon. gentleman
yesterday, at bio aficial residence in Powning-etrect.

would to a great extent cure the evils of which everybody
complained. But the ground for withdrawing these bills
was this. No one could doubt that the indemnity which
the commissioners gave was a full and perfect oue, and
that that was the true construction of the act of 1852; and
if the letter of that statute justified these bills, its spirit
never could do so. Consequently, the bills being with-
drawn, those who were convicted of bribery by the finding
of the commissioners remained good voters ; and, at an
events, there was no reason why Hull, Canterbury, Cam-
bridge, Malden, and Barnstaple should not have represen-
tatives in Parliament. Whatever might be the nature of
the bill to come from the committee up stairs, it could not
contain any clause which would operate as a rea-
son for not allowing those places to be repre-
sented. He submitted that there could be no reason
whatever for delaying the issue of the writs. The excel-
lent reasons given by the Attorney-General for the pro-
ceeding with those bills were the strongest and most cogent
reasons why they should never have been introduced..
(Hear, hear.) There might be doubts as to the construc-
tion of the net ; but the difficulty of carrying tho bills
through Parliament must surely have been known before
they wore introduced.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE said he understood that the order
of last session, requiring seven days' notice of the motion
to issue a writ, was only a sessional order ; and he under-
stood it was now competent for any gentleman to move, at
any moment, the issue of a writ for any of these five de-
linquent boroughs, without any notice whatever. If the
noble lord thought this should not be done till the bribery
bills were disposed of, he should pass a resolution to that
effect. He (Mr. Duncombe) should -certainly object to a
writ being issued to any of them during the present Par-
liament. (Hear, hear.) If they allowed these boroughs
to go scot-free, after the reports of those commissioners,
the sooner they repealed the act constituting the commis-
sioners, the sooner they restored the franchise to St.
Albans and Sudbury, the better. (Cheers.) Under what
circumstances could they expect to get so strong a report
from commissioners on any borough as those on Canter-
bury (Cambridge was not so strong), Hull, Malden, and
Barnstaple ? Most of them were old offenders. (Hoar,
hear.) Perhaps no gentleman ever made a better speech
against those bills than the Attorney-General him-
self had done that night ; it was a speech the honour-
able and learned member for Stamford might have
been almost jealous of.S? (Laughter.) But the Attorney-
General was not at all sanguine that things would
not go on as they were. He said that after another elec-
tion fresh commissions might issue. What were they to
issue for ? (Hear, hear.) Where could they get better re-
ports to act upon ? If they were not to be acted upon, the
sooner they washed their hands of it, and let everybody
bribe away as fast as they could, the better. (Hear, hear.)
That was what it was coming to as fast as possible. The
public would be of opinion that the house was floundering
on with the question of bribery, and that they could not
grapple with it. (Hear.) He believed that there was quite
enough made out in the reports to disfranchise these bo-
roughs. There was no precedent on their journals for dis-
franchising individual voters, as proposed by these bills ;
but they had precedents sufficient in the cases of St. Albans, I
Sudbury, and others, for disfranchising whole boroughs.
He did not believe that there would be any breach of good
faith in disfranchising these individuals ; but it was not
his intention to vote for a partial, but for a whole disquali-
fication of these boroughs. (Hear, hear.) They must do
as was done on former occasions, and create a new consti-
tuency. In the case of New Shoreham, a certain number
of individuals were disqualified from voting for ever, any-
where. Here they were only disqualified for the boroughs
to which they belonged. Parliament disfranchised Now
Shoreham, and created a new constituency, calling in the
Rape of Bramber. What was called the " Christian Club"
were disfranchised ; they were sworn and banded together,
"on the true faith of a Christian"—(laughter)—to return
the best man they could find for the most money. (Great
laughter.) These boroughs were very much in the same
position. If tho house let the whole go scot free, with all
their commissions about bribery, they would mate them-
selves the laughing stock of the country. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. DISRAELI- thought some explanation was due
from the Government to the house as to the views they
entertained of the probable progress of public business,
and what prospects they really had of carrying the impor-
ant measures of which they had given notice. The Go-
vernment had given notice of seven important measures
this session. He could not recall an instance when so
many measures of importance had been introduced by
Ministers. A great many of them were brought in with
all the authority of being mentioned in the Queen's Speech;
and those that were not so noticed were not of loss impor-
tance. All those measures touched upon the most consi-
derable subjects that could engage the attention of Parlia-
ment. Of these seven measures, the Government had been
defeated on three; three had been withdrawn; and the
seventh would engage the attention of the house when the
present business had terminated. The Government had
been defeated on a bill for an entire change of the law of
settlement, a bill for the public education of Scotland, and
a bill for the total reconstruction of Parliamentary oaths.
They had withdrawn three bills—the bill now before the
house for disfranchising a large portion of the constituency
of five boroughs; they had not introduced a most impor-
tant measure, namely, for the complete change of the civil
service, which he thought would have entirely altered
the character of the country, and the whole spirit of our
administration ; and they had withdrawn a measure re-
specting parliamentary reform. (" Hear, hear," and
laughter.) There still remained the seventh important
measure—the one for the reform of the University of Ox-
ford ; and on this they had received considerable, though
partial, defeats. Ho wanted to know what were the pros-
pects, when they introduced these important measures, of
their being able to carry them ? Did they believe that
they could have passed a bill for the reform of parlia-
ment—that they could have effected a reform of the
civil service—could have disfranchised the consti-
tuencies of those offending boroughs could have
established a system of public education in Scotland—
could have revised the whole of the parliamentary
oaths, or changed the Protestant constitution of the coun-
try—(cheers from the Opposition)—could have settled the
law of se ttleinent—(laughter) —and could have reformed the
University of Oxford ? (Hear, hoar.) Did they believe,
when introducing these important subjects to the considera-
tion of Parliament, and they had a fair prospect of carrying
all those measures.; and, if not, were those measures that
ought to have been introduced ? (Hear, hear.) Whatever
difference there might be as to the expediency of these
measures, they all possessed one characteristic—they were
either assaults upon the rights of the subject, or upon the
institutions of the country. (Cheers from the Opposition.)
They were met that night with the intention of disfran-
chising a considerable number of her Majesty's subjects.
After reading that bill a second time they were to proceed
to attack the rights of the University of Oxford. Some
might think that in both instances such violent measures
should be had recourse to ; but no one could deny that one
was an attack upon the rights of electors, the other upon
the rights of the university. (No, no.) No one would
deny that the scheme of parliamentary reform was an at-
tack upon an institution of the country. The noble lord
and his friends might think the measure a very beneficial
one ; still, it was to effect a very great change in an insti-
tution. Every one must feel that the measure with re-
spect to the civil service of the country was one that
menaced most important changes in the institutions of the
country, and probably might have effected a greater alte-
ration in the habits and character of the people than any
other measure that had been proposed in Parliament. No
one would deny that the Scotch Education Bill was an
assault upon an institution—the parochial schools of Scot-
land. He gave no opinion at all upon the merits of those
measures, but these were their characteristics. (Hear.)
Would any one say that the abrogation of the law of set-
tlement was not an attack upon an institution? If his
view of these measures was correct, it was highly impru-
dent in any government to bring forward measures and
changes of that character when they had not a fair prospect
of carrying them. (Hear, hear.) Let the house decide
whether they thought Government had a fair prospect of
carrying those seven important measures when Parliament
met or not. Suppose the noble lord had proceeded with
that measure so dear to his heart, the reform of Parlia-
ment, and had not raised the siege of Parliament which
he had maintained for three years; did he suppose that
by this time he would have succeeded in passing that mea-
sure ? And how, in the interim, would the other measures
have prospered ? The house and the country should never
forget that they had the groat blessing of having their
affairs administered by men remarkably distinguished for
for their abilities—(cheers)—by men who had made
enormous sacrifices both for their country and themselves.
(Laughter.) There was the noble lord himself—no man
had made greater sacrifices. He had thrown over all his old
colleagues, and had connected himself with a coterie of
public men who had passed greater part of their public lives
in depreciating his abilities and running down his eminent
statesmanship. (Cheers and laughter.) And had the noble
lord succeeded in the object for which ho made those sacri-
fices, his position would be more easily understood. But,
finding as they did, near the end of May, that of these seven
most important measures—the most important ever pro-
posed to parliament—three had been withdrawn, and three
had only brought defeat to the government—he thought the
time had come when it was impossible not to consider that
the house had not received that ample compensation which
was held out. to them for the break up of parties, and for
not following the genius and spirit of -parliamentary consti-
tution—that they had not received that full, adequate, and
ample compensation, in well digested and statesmanlike
measures that had been held out to them. (Cheers from the
Opposition.) When they were told that the Government,
to be sure, had no principles, but had all the talents—
(laughter)—they had aright to expect that the noble lord,
who always behaved pretty handsome to the house,
would at least have done something, or had given them
something to compensate for that unnatural position of
affairs which had banished all his former colleagues to in-
visible positions in the house, and had placed him on the
ministerial bench in the midst of those who had been decry-
ing his course for the last quarter of a century. (Cheers and
laughter.) He had thought it necessary to make these
few observations to call public attention to the facts : for
this was such a busy country, and men had so much to do
that they often had not time to take stock of what their
representative were doing. It was most important they
should understand that, the month of May having nearly
terminated, the Government had introduced six most im-
portant measures, none of which had advanced, or could
advance a. single stage, three of them having occasioned to
the Government ignominious and complete discomfiture,
and the other three having been discreetly withdrawn.
The seventh remained ; but it had already led to consider-
able defeat, and would, he hoped, that night receive its
final overthrow. (Cheers.)
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL wished to say a word in
explanation in reference to what had fallen from Mr. V.
Smith. Nothing could be further from his intention than
to reflect on the conduct of the commissioners. Tho errors
in the schedules were only such as it was natural to find
there, seeing the comprehensive inquiry in which the
learned gentlemen had been involved. Nor had he as-
cribed more than one or two such errors to the commise
-
sioners ; the rest had been made in copying, or by th
printers. All he had said was that the commissioners had
in one or two instances, used language which, although
strictly and legally correct, might he capable of n more
enlarged construction. Ho had before him ono
of their
announcements, in which it was stated that d
_eamlnipdeord
Bens who gave true answers should be
meaning
froin
of anylegtahlosie'ro words,ce bTuhterleie was
sulndo understandqUirtebitas
llaconsequences.
ttliioant, they mmigighhtthzhevaeveregcievivenedraisionotroo
agneneirawl
rienstsieornprtebtaaz
the voters would be indemnified from a
reflection on the commissioners. He t
Nothing could be further from his mind
belie
eavnetdo make any
in the most
had discharged an exceedingly difficult
et
honourable and impartial manner.
Mr. HUME—Before the order as to what
we shall have an answer from the _
he writs. (Hear, hear.)
(H
.anr.yhear.)
order is discharged, I hope
they intend to do about t
eheno.nt,omldemsinbecer
guise
sotricol nJ. . RUSSELL—I have already answered that
fhorasanby
thaMtrh.isilaUnMswEer—ißs
may move the issue of these writs on a single day's
notice. (Hear, hear.)
guotodthfeorn
nobotlheinlogria
Mr. BRIGHT
Hsaid the noble lord had referred to the
bills up-stairs, e doubted whether the noble lord would

find anything in them which would be a fair answer to I
anybody who chose to move for those writs. (Hear, hear.)
Being one of the committee, he thought that was the-con-
clusion to which ho should come on further consideration.
He hoped the noble lord would not give a final answer till
next day. He should be sorry if pledged himself against
the issuing of these writs, and doubted very much whether
he would be able to maintain it on the ground he had
stated. (Hear, hear.)
After a few words from Sir H. WILLOUGHBY, the order
was discharged.
CAMBRIDGE BRIBERY PREVENTION BILL.

On the motion to discharge the order for the second
reading of this bill,
Lord J. RUSSELL said—l certainly had understood
that there was still an order of the house, or at least a
general understanding, that seven days' notice must be
given before the issuing of a writ. If that order should
not be in force, I should move it to-morrow, as an order of
the house; for I think the issuing of these writs is a very
important measure, and one that ought not to be taken
without due notice. I think there is a clause in one of the
bills which I introduced, now under the consideration of
the select committee, which disqualifies persons who shall
be found, by different methods, guilty of bribery ; and my
view is, if you pass a bill containingh an efficient clause to
that effect, that the personwcs are in the habit of receiv-
ing bribes at Canterbury, Cambridge, or elsewhere, would
be deterred by that statute from exposing themselves to
disqualification, and to be posted up in the register of
voters, thus making them infamous in the bough .
to which
they belong, as persons guilty of administering bribes. My
belief is that the writs ought not to issue until such a bill
has passed. (Hear, hear.) The right hon. gentleman the
member for Buckinghamshire has taken the occasion of
these bills being withdrawn, to remark on the numberf
measures which have been introduced, some in accordance
with the recommendations of the Queen's speech, and some
in pursuance of notice by members of the Government,
which have been either defeated or withdrawn ; and he
urges that, unless the Government had good reason to sup-
pose that those measures would be carried, that they should
never have been brought forward at all. I cannot say, from
my experience of a reformed House of Commons, that
there can be that certainty as to the passing of measures
which there used to be before the passing of the Reform.
Bill. (Hear, hear.) It certainly was a very pleashnt con-
viction when a minister could rely upon a great number of
boroughs, the members for which had been returned by
himself or his immediate friends, colleagues, or connexions.
(Cheers.) We cannot have the same certainty of a majority
on the measures we now bring forward. (Hear.) Thet right
hon. gentleman himself, when he was a minister an& sat
upon this bench, brought forward a plan of finance of very
considerable importance ; but he was not successful in ob-
taining the assent of this house to his meastire. (Laughter.)
I suppose he did not bring it forward without the expecta-
tion of being able to carry it. And such has been our case ;
and no doubt we feel very much the disappointment.
(Hear, hear.) But the right hon. gentleman may say that,
on his financial measure being defeated, the Government
to which he belonged resigned. (Cheers from the Opposi-
tion.) But we have had some questions this year—one
question immeasurably superior in importance to any ex-
cept the reform measure which I proposed—on which we
have had symptoms of the opinion of the house. VV' e laid
upon the table of the house all the negotiations that had
taken place with regard to an impending war. The right
hon. gentleman accused the Government of connivance or
credulity.. That was a question on which he might have
tested the opinion of this house ; and if the house had
thought that either connivance or credulity was the
characteristic of the Government, they might have de-
clared their opinion by a majority. But the right hon.
gentleman never dared to do anything of the kind.
(Cheers.) He made a speech of considerable length, and
then contented himself by not moving anything. (Hear,
hear.) But if their scruples were so great, if they were so
unwilling to disturb thu Government, if they felt that in
the critical position of affairs so much forbearance was due,
that though they might indulge in hostile criticism, they
would not vote on any important question affecting the
conduct of Government—how is that reconcileable with
their recent conduct ? That can hardly be said to be the
case ; because when we had obtained a vote for the ex-
penses of the war, we no sooner proposed measures of ways
and means by which the expenses of that war were to be
defrayed, than the right hon. gentleman and his friends
came forward to defeat that measure and to deprive us of
the means of carrying on that war. (Hear.) The right
hon. gentleman was dfeated by a majority of 100 on that
question. The right hon. gentleman, therefore, cannot say
that though we have been defeated, he has had the con-
fidence of the house either on that question or on his assault
upon the Exchequer-bond plan of my right hon. friend.
(Hear, hear.) Not only was he met on that question by
the reply of my right hon. friend, who took away all the
pretences and arguments by which the right hon. gentle-
man assailed the character and conduct of the Government,
but on a division, a majority of 100 decided against the
view which the right lion. gentleman entertained. (Hear,
hear.) Therefore, whatever may be said of the different
measures which we proposed, it cannot be said that the
right hon. gentleman has obtained the confidence of the
house, which his Government did so much to lose during
the time they were in office. (Hear, hear.) It must be a
great relief to the right hon. gentleman that the bill I
introduced the other night was defeated. What security
our Protestant constitution has from the oath by which we
say that none of the descendants of a person named James
111. has any right to the throne of England, I cannot ima-
gine—(laughter)—or what security there can be in Pro-
testants taking this oath, to which Protestants have no
objection, but which does not strengthen their Protestant
principles or attachment to the constitution ; but, from
which certain members of the house being Roman Catho-
lics are totally and entirely exempted. (Hear, hear.) But
if some hon. gentlemen are of opinion that the Protestant
constitution of the country is more secure by
.means of
that oath, I can only say that I think that opinion will
progress—that if that is the opinion at the present time,
it will not be the opinion some years hence, that if persons
are not attached to the constitution and the throne from
affection and from loyalty, you will not make them more
attached to it by any form of .words. (Hear, hear.) I
belie= that out.form of government has the sincere attach-
ment and affection of the people, and that pot need not
exclude any person from it by a paitioular form of 'oat&
(Hear, hear.) The vote of a few nights ago had one prac-
tical effect, and one only, and that was to exclude the
Jews from Parliament. (Hear, hear.) The right hon.
gentleman declared, I have no doubt with great sincerity,
his wish to see the Jews in possession of the same pri-
vileges as all the other subjects of the crown ; that he
thinks them peculiarly worthy—more worthy than either
Protestants or Roman Catholics to possess them— but
still, notwithstanding his great anxiety to see them in
possession of these equal privleges, the right hon. gentle-
man has on some occasions absented himself from voting
for them, and on another occasion he has voted against
them, so that the particular opinion of the hour always
seems to overcome his particular attachment to the Jews.
(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) Such is the position of the right
hon. gentleman, and such is the position of the Govern-
ment. I regret that the Government has been defeated,
but with regard to the measures to which I have referred,
the house has not shown that it has any confidence in the
right hon. gentleman, and it has affirmed the measures of
the Government. (Cheers.)
Mr. DISRAELI—The noble lord appears to think that
I have expressed surprise at his not having resigned office,
I assure the noble lord that he is labouring under a delusion.
(Hear, hear.) I should have been immensely surprised if
the noble lord had resigned. (Hear, hear, and oh, oh.)
I think, sir, that many more defeats—if possible more
humiliating and more complete—must be sustained before
the noble lord will feel the necessity of any such ceremony.
(Hear, hear.) I know the noble lord very well in the posi-
tion which he now occupies, of governing the country
upon sufferance. Years ago, and for many years I sat
opposite to the noble lord ; and I have seen him submit to
the most humiliating—the most disgraceful defeats, yet ad-
here to office with a tenacity, or a patriotism, which was
most admirable. The noble lord, therefore, is in error if
he supposes that I am taunting him with not resigning
office, or expressing any surprise at his maintaining the
position which he occupies. The noble lord, I say, is
under a complete mistake. (Hear.) The noble lord has
told us also that, all the papers with respect to the trans-
actions connected with the East having been laid upon the
table, I made a speech, and gave my opinion upon those
papers—that I gave my opinion that the conduct of the
Government could only be accounted for upon the supposi-
tion of connivance or credulity, and that I did not take the
opinion of the house upon the issue. (Hear.) But the
noble lord forgets that all the papers had not been laid upon
the table. The noble lord seems quite to have forgotten
that, when I made that speech to which he has referred,
there were most important papers which were net upon the
table. (Hear.) He quite forgets that her Majesty's Minis-
ters had announced that they would lay all the papers on
the table, and that they had induced Parliament to con-
sider those State papers when the most important were
kept back and secreted—(hear)—and when, if it had not
been for the almost unprecedented notice of the secret ne-
gotiations of the Government which appeared in a foreign
newspaper, the people of this country would not only have
been in total ignorance of what had occurred, but would
have been completely misled upon the whole transaction,
and would have adopted, probably, a completely different
view from that which I believe they now entertain.
(Hear, hear.) I confess I think I made some mistake when
I said that the conduct of the Government could only
be accounted for by connivance " or" credulity. (Hear,
hear.) That was too limited a view of the case. (Hear.)
When we had all the papers before us, my opinion then
was more complete and mature, and I say that the con-
duct of the Government can only he accounted for by con-
nivance " and" credulity. (Hear, hear, and oh, oh.)
And lam quite confident that before longat The noble
th will be the
general opinion of the country. (Hear, h ar,)
lord alluded—l did not think most felicitously—toe the
failure of the financial measures of the Government ofLord Derby—(hear, hear),—and then, sulliadecein leyd rteoc oc Ho
ne ct. s e
ing himself, remembered that that
failure
quences very different from his own conduct. (Heathat rr, hear.)
I think that it was not a very happy allusion,er-
ence to our financial measures, so far as concerns the con-
duct o G
f a overnment being dependent on success or
failure ; but as that allusion has been made—as the noble
lord has touched on the failure of the financial measures
of the Government of Lord Derby—l trust that the house
will not think me intrusive if I refer to some measures of
that Government with which the members of the present
Government possess some connection. (Hear, hear.) ' I
must say this for the noblelord, that from the first moment
that the Government of Lord Derby was formed, they did
not find in the noble lord a fair opponent. (Hear, hear,
and oh, oh.) I will not say of the noble lord what he said
of me, when, some sixteen months ago, I
gave him
friendly intimation that he had better be looking after
some of his colleagues, who, in their sagacity, were insult-
ing the Emperor of the French. (Hear, hear.) I will-not
say to the noble lord what he then said to me, that my
conduct was imbued with the spirit of faction. (Hear.)
it is quite unnecessary for me to say that, when calling
the attention of the house to the conduct of the noble lord
when the Government of Lord Derby was formed. (Hear.)
He had scarcely retired from office—from which he was
not driven by us, but by his courtly quarrels with his own
colleagues—when he lent the whole weight of his influence
to an opposition to the establishment of a militia upon the
voluntary principle. (Hear, hear.) Night after night the
noble lord opposed that measure brought forward by my
right hon. friend the member for Midhurst. (Hear, hear.)
He exhausted every combination of faction, opposed the
bill at every stage, and exhausted, at last, even the patience
and the confidence of his own friends. (Hear, hear.) And
now let me appeal to the house and to the country as to
their opinion of that measure. Is it not recognised as one
of the most successful measures that was ever passed
through Parliament ? (Hear, hear.) Is it not the safeguard
and protection of the country at the present moment,
(Hear, hear.) But is that all? Why, I recollect that
there, was another measure of the Government of Lord
Derby . And what was the conduct of the noble lord and
his friends in reference to that? We wanted to re-

form the Court of Chancery. (Heer, hear hest.)- • .
Wanted to bring in measures to reform the Court of Chan.
eery, and the noble lord and his friends opposed. They
said, " You are going to reform the Court of Chancery ,
upon the eve of a dissolution of Parliament ; this must
never be." (Hear, hear.) But the good spirit and high
feeling of the house rendered that opposition futile; and
enabled us to. carry those important measures which had
been introduced by Lord St. Leonards in another ,place.
(Hear, hear.) Now, I ask the house, was not the reform
of the Court of Chancery a most important object ? (Hear,
hear.) The country is indebted for that measure not to
the distinguished statesman opposite, but to the Govern= .
ment which from the first moment he opposed with every
artifice of faction. (Hear.) And I ask the house, suppose
the reform of the Court of Chancery had not been accom-
plished by Lord Derby; would you by this time have had
that object achieved by the Government of " all the ta-
lents"—this Government which makes such enormous pro.
fessions, and accomplishes such slight results ? (Hear,
hear.) Look at the distinguished and gifted beings before
me —what have they done at all equal to the establish-
ment of a militia on the voluntary principle and to the re-
form of the Court of Chancery? There was another men- ,
sure which we proposed and did not succeed in carrying,
and which is very appropriate to the discussion of this
evening. (Hear, hear.) There were certain vacant seats,
occasioned by the disfranchisement of certain boroughs,
which, year after year, had never been filled up. The Go-
vernment of Lord Derby came forward, and made a large,
and enlightened, and liberal proposition to this house.
They laid down a principle which the noble lord himself
has since adopted for his own Reform Bill (Hear, hear.)
They said that you should give those forfeited seats to great
counties which were not sufficiently represented, and they
proposed to give them to the West Riding of Yorkshire and
to Lancashire. (Oh, oh, and laughter.) How were we
opposed ? We were opposed with all the sanctimonious
rhetoric of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. (Hear, and,
oh, oh.) He said, " God forbid that you should be per-
mitted—a Government upon sufference—to introduce a
measure of Parliamentary reform. This Government must
possess much stronger proofs of the confidence of the house
before we allow the seats which have been taken from Bt.
Albans and Sudbury to be appropriated to the intelligens*
and population of the north of England. (Hear, hear.) No;
you must wait. * You must have a Government that you
have confidence in." I suppose that the vision of a perfect
reformed Government passed before the prescient and pro-
phetic glance of the right hon. gentleman. (Hear, hear, and
laughter.) Yet what have you got in the way of Parlia-
mentary reform from " the Government of all the talents?"
(Laughter.) Would you have been suffering much if Lan-
cashire and Yorkshire had been more fully represented?
Yet there, in the political dusthole, lie Sudbury and St.
Albans still, while the Government is unable to deal with
the other tainted seats which have been brought before the
louse to-night. (Hear.) Well, then, says the noble lord,
"You brought forward financial measures and failed."
It is
true that we brought forward financial measures which we
could not carry, but we did that which I think it was our part
to do—which will always be my part, at least when I have
the misfortune to propose measures and fail ; for I will
never be a minister upon sufferance. (Cheers.) What was
the conduct of the present Government with respect to
those financial measures ? (Hear.) Tak 3 the great and
leading features of those measures—take the declaration on
our part that there should be a difference recognised in the ,
imposition of the income tax between permanent and pro-
fessional incomes. That was a point upon whichthe noble
Ilord declared his conviction that it was a most dangerous
principle of finance. (Hear, hear.) Yet, what did he do 't
Why, he became a member of a Government which intro-
duced and carried a graduated income tax—a 'measure
which could only be passed on the pretence that it was an
ultimate measure, and that matters would be so arranged
as that the income tax, after a certain period, should no
longer be levied. But what are you now doing? Why, you
have a war, and you raise your principal supplies for carry-
ing on that war by a graduated income tax—that most
pernicious and dangerous of all financial propositions.
(Hear, and a laugh.) Yet the assertions of a principle in
our financial scheme, which was but a principle of justice
could not be tolerated by the noble lord—who yet became
a member of a Government by which a graduated income
tax was introduced and passed. (Hear.) Well, sir what did
the noble lord next? Under what circumstances did he allow
himself to join that Government? The noble lord had said
before that he made a very great sacrifice. He partedfromthe
colleagues who had all his life been faithful to him, to
take into his bosom those ancient foes who had passed
their lives in depreciating his talent, and decrying his
eminent ability. The noble lord, I may say, broke up
the very being of that great historic party, the confident")
of which ought not to have been less precious to him than
the favour of his Sovereign. (Hear, hear.) What did he
do this for ? Not from any spirit of faction, not from any
spirit of- political jealousy, or of political envy of Lord
Derby, or any one else—(hear, hear)—but because he was
devoted to great principles, and resolved to carry great
measures—the great measure of education, for example—
to carry great measures of education. That was his reason
for breaking up an ancient and an honourable party, con-
nected by association with the glory of this country.
There were other great measures which were not so pressing
—the reform of this house, for example, and the accom-
plishment of the religious liberty of the country. (Hear.)
Well, we know what happened to that great scheme of
Government which the noble lord brought forward last
year. Ido not know whether it was defeated or with-
drawn. I believe it evaporated while the noble lord was
making his exposition of it to the house. (Hear, hear.)
So wise and statesmanlike was that measure—so amply
did it justify the confidence which was reposed in its
author, that I believe it never was brought under formal
discussion and deliberation in this house. But the noble
lord, who is a man of inexhaustible resources, rallies on
the question of education this year, and tries his great
scheme in one part only of the United Kingdom.
(Hear, hear.) That scheme has been ignominiously de-
feated in this house, of which he is the leader. (Hear.)
Well, sir, the noble ord, who has been for three years, as
I have already said, besieging the House of Commons, and
who took, nevertheless, the whole of last year to mature a
measure on the subject of Parliamentary reform, has
brought forward such a measure during the present session.
What caused the failure of that measure? (Hear, hear.)
I-believe that the noble lord must look for his opponents •
must probably among those new allies with whom he now
concerts. (Hear, hear.) We witnessed tho emotion of the
noble lord when he had to come forward in the House of
Commons, and to announce the relinquishment of his
favourite seheme. (Hear.) Some were inclined to treat that
ebulition with indifference, or with mockery—(oh, oh)—
and some to attribute it to the lower feelings and senti-
ments of our nature—(loud cries of " oh, oh")—I was not.
(Hear.) I expressed at the time what I sincerely felt, and
reflection has never for a moment made me regret. (Hear.)
I could easily understand how a person of the noble lord's
temperament might be so affected, and I felt that the tone
of Parliament was raised and elevated by it than the re-
verse. (Hear.) But I cannot forget—at least, when the
noble lord attacks me as he has tonight—that he has made
that measure one of the reasons for the strange and equi-
vocal position which he now occupies in the Government of
her Majesty. (Hear.) There was still another measure
which might have induced him to linger at his post, but
with reference to which he met last Friday night with the
most signal and complete discomfiture. I was asking—when
I made the few remarks, which I little thought would lead
to this discussion—l was asking what prospect the Governs
meat had when they introduced, or promised to introduce,
these bills, of being able to carry them through Parliament.
hoar.) I might ask the noble lord further, what are the
relations now existing between him and the Government
of which he is a member? (Hear, hear.) All the great
measures to which he made what I admit were costly sa-
crifices, have been defeated, yet the noble lord still retains
his post. (Hear, hear.) The most eminent statesman of
this country—one of the oldest and most experienced
members of this house—one who has been thrice Secretary
of State, Secretary of State in each department, and who
was Prime Minister of England for a long time—one who
is associated with the memory of a groat principle, believed
by large bodies of the people of this country, and who was
the leader of a noble historic party—without a department,
condescends to accept subordinate office, under one who is
not only a Minister not entitled to the confidence of the
country —(immense cheering)—but who was his ancient
and inveterate political opponent, and whom, only four
years ago, he rose and denounced in this house—he talks
of "connivance" now—as a "conniver" with foreign con-
spirators— (hear, hear)—and now the noble lord comes
down and tells me that this veto the other night, which he
admits was an overwhelming defeat, was caused by my
being false to the principles which I profess in this house.
(Hear, hear.) The noble lord said that I pretend to be
an asserter of the claims of the Jews to political equality
with the other subjects of her Majesty, and that I
have made that a convenient political scheme—that when
the occasion suited me I went out, and did not vote, and
when on the occasions I found it convenient to vote
against it, I did not hesitate to do so. (Hear, hear.) Now
I gave to that statement of the noble lord the most un-
equivocal and most unqualified denial. (Hear, hear.) I
deny that I ever absented myself at any period of my life
from any division in which the rights of the Jews were
concerned. (Hear, hear.) The noble lord, who is the
leader of the House of Commons, and who ought not to
make such a statement of any man—least of all of me—on
such a subject, ought to have informed himself better
before he made such a statement. (Hear, hear.) Suppose
I were to get up and say that the noble lord had made
Parliamentary reform a mere political convenience. (Hear,
hear)—that when it suited him he made it convenient to
quit the house and not vote at all, and that when it suited
him also, he would lave to give a vote against it. (Hear.)
Perhaps I might, without much ingenuity, make out a very
colourable case of that kind against the noble lord. (Hear.)
But I should scorn to do it. (Sea r:)I am convinced that
the noble lord is sincere in the opinions which he professes
with respect to Parliamentary reform,,and that if he voted
against the measures of Parliamentary reform introduced
by Lord Derby's Government, it was because he felt that
he was bound to do it by his obligations to those principles
which he wished to see successful. But the noble lord
can make no colourable case against me. (Hear,
against
do not hisvoted
onbsiildlerthtehaotthlevronteidghatg,
against
n tellst
a bill
he
l i l
andnobleif
lord rd that
which would have benefitted the Jew but I voted against
a bill which I believed would have done greater injury to
the Jew than any other measure that had aver been brought
forward. I will say no more. I will express my sorrow
and surprise that the gentleman professing the Roman
Catholic religion in this house should have deemed it con-
sistent with their duly and their interest to support that
measure. (Hear.) lam confident they never yet go") 8,.'
vote more likely to injure them in the opinion of the gam
body of the people of this country—or-having aottr°7l,l7l
tendency to weaken their own position, than the vote
the gave that night. (Hear.) Well, sir,
I or indirect,
the.noble lord had no communication, direct
forward that
with the Roman Catholic body, on bringtintghey could not
bill. (Hear.) lam quite convinced the
have recommended it. lam convinced gentlemen of
that
no lord had
their acuteness must have seen that the nobly
Roman Catholics
some other object, besides benefiting the
have
• in that bill. What may been
or the Jews in bringing
but I have my own
the object, it' is not for me to inquire;
tliat the noble lord was
opinion upon it. And I believe
influenced
`his who have
already influenced
solely influence by coons
his position, and who will not rest from their endeavours
until they have permanently sullied his illustrious name.
This I tell the noble 11 lord. I have endeavoured to vindi-
eak) myself from the attack ho made upon me. And l-
must repeat—because the subject is one upon which I do
not wish to be misunderstood—that the noble lord was
never more leis • • taken—unintentionally, no doubt—than
w
hen he says I ever left the house when a question which'
concerned tho claims of the Jews was under its consider-
ation. (Cheers.)
Sir GEORGE GREY ; I wish I could believe that the
course which, has been taken upon this occasion was calcu-
lated to elevate the tone or the character of this house.
(Hear, hear.) I certainly had hoped, from the tone of the
observations made by the hon. and learned member for
Stamford, that the withdrawalof these bills would nothave
been made the occasion for party discussion, or for acrimo-
nious debate—a debate which cannot lead to the decision
of the house, upon any of ,the questions put in issue by the
right bon, gentloman opposite. The tone of the hon. and