The Sun.
London, England, 1853-03-15 00:00:00

of the treasurer of the courts, and the same powers
were given as were conferred by " the last mentioned
act." Now " the last mentioned act" referred to an en-
tirely different object, and there was no previous statute
relating to the same subject at all. Again, in the same
act there was, a clause giving compensation to persons
whose offices were aboliShed, with the'usual provision at
the end that where a party received cOrnpensation, and
was afterwards appointed to an office the amount of, his
compensation was to abate pro tanto as long as he held
the office. All that was only reasonable and in the ordi-
nary course ; but during the progress of the bill through
the other house it was proposed that another class of per-
sons should receive compensation, and a clause was in:
troduced to that-effect. But the party who introduced
that clause did not take the trouble to read the act, or'he'
would have seen that there was a general clause granting
compensation, and that all he had to do was to add a
particular class of persons to this particular clause. How-
ever, he not only introduced' a distinct clause to effect
his object, but he omitted any provision to make the
compensation abate if the .party entitled to it should
afterwards hold another office, so that in that bill there
were two clauses for giving compensation totally at
variance in principle with each other. He repeated,
that in that particular act there was not a single clause
into which some error of more or less importance had
not crept in the course of its passage through the house.
He might multiply similar cases almost without limit ;
but those to which he had just called their lordships'
attention were not so strong as those Which were adduced
by his noble and learned friend'on the occasion to which
he had referred. He (Lord Lyndhurst) had selected
these instances on account of their recent occurrence,:
and for the purpose of showing their lordships how this
evil, which was one of the gravest kind, was suffered to
continue ; and he exhorted their lordships, in the
strongest manner, to devise some remedy Against the
continuance of such a vicious system. It appeared to
him that it would not be difficult to discover some
remedy. For instance,' if some person of competent in-
formation and knowledge were appointed by the Govern-
ment,' with such assistance as might be necessary 'to
make himself master of every bill introduced into that
ilouse, and- to watch it through the whole of its progress,
,and to communicate from time to time some authority in
that house any alterations that were introduced into it
upon either its original or its amended state, he thought
that this evil, if it would not be entirely got rid of, would.
atleast be very much mitigated in its operation. HoW-
aver, it was not for him (Lord Lyndhurst), as a private
individual, to enter into the details of this subject-7it
was a proper subject for the consideration of the Go-
vernment, and one of very great importance, 'and he
took leave, therefore, to conclude the short statement
that he had made by asking his noble and learned friend
on the woolsack whether it was his intention to accom-
pany, or to follow up, his measure for the revision of the
statutes with any measure for the purpose of remedying
the crying evil to which he had referred ? (Hear.)
The LORD CHANCELLOR said that he was sure
their lordships always listened to any statement made by
his noble and learned friend with so much pleasure and
attention that he could not but rejoice at the circum-
stance that the announcement which he (the Lord Chan-
cellor) had to make at the 'opening of the present session
had led to the inquiry which his noble and learned friend
had just addressed to him. He could assure their
lordships that he felt as strongly as his noble and learned
friend could feel, the absolute necessity of coming
to some arrangement whereby their legislation for
the future might be made more perfect than it now
was ; and when he announced, on the first day of their
meeting, the intention he had formed of endeavouring to
consolidate the existing, statutes, he stated then, and he
had not the least difficulty in
,repeating now, to his noble
and learned friend, that one of the main objects which
he should always have in view so long 'as he had any
connection with the work of consolidating the statutes,
would be not only to devise the best mode of consolidating
the legislation that was already passed, but also to pro-
vide for a better mode of legislating for the future. At
the same time he did not wish to mislead his noble and
learned friend by inducing him to believe what was not
the truth, that he had in his mind at that moment any
definite plan with regard to this subject. He had stated
on the first day of their meeting that the best chance of
arriving at such a result was not to speculate any longer
as to what was the best mode of proceeding, but to pro-
ceed at once to do something. With that view he had,
since he announced his intention a month ago, secured
the services of a very learned gentleman to whom his
noble and learned friend had alluded, and who to his
general qualifications added the peculiar qualification
upon this subject that he was practically the only re-
maininicoMmissioner Who framed the report suggesting
the mode in which the statute law should be consolidated.
Being necessarily unable, from his other avocations,' to
attend to the practical details of the matter himself, he
(the Lord ChancellOr) had secured the services of a few
efficient men to devote 'themselves exclusively to the
task. He had not wished that it should commence be-
fore the Easter recess, because he could not, till then,
give his personal attention continuously to the subject ;
but he had put the matter into such a train that he be-
lieved in the first week of next month the work would
be begun, and an attempt would be made, as he pre-
viously intimated, in the first place to ascertain precisely
and exactly of what the statute book now consisted, for
he believed there were thirty-esght quarto volumes
printed, not above six or seven of which were now in
force. That being done, lie would take one or two rather
easy subjects, and consolidate the statutes relatingto them
firAt, and turn them into better language and form, and
then lay them before the house as a specimen of what
could be done in that respect. 'When that had been
completed, whether it -Would not be right to extend the
work further, and engage a larger staff for its execution,
be would not now speculate. One direction, which he
always gave to every person enagaged on this subject,
and upon which he would always fix his own atten-
tion, was not only to endeavour to render in a more de-
finite and intelligible form the statutes that were already
passed, but to discover and suggest a practical mode
of reforming all prospective legislation likewise. (Hear.)
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH said that when it
fell to his lot, some years ago, to have the charge of
measures in their passage through Parliament, it was his
practice to have the bills reprinted with the amendments
that were m' de in them, and he found that course to be
one that was attended with very great advantage. He
wished also to observe, that if their lordship's house was
to continue to have a great number of bills thrown upon
its attention at once at the end of a session, no arrange-
ment that they could make could by possibility save
them from the discredit of passing acts which nobody
could comprehend.

Lord REDESDALE must say, with regard to the
language of acts of Parliament, that the judges had a
little to do with it as well as the houses of Parliament.
If the judgment of the Court, which held that the word
" may' was only permissive, had been questioned by
another Court, considerable doubt and difficulty would
have been saved.

Lord LYNDHURST said that for a lengthened pe-
riod of time there had been.,disputes as-to the meaning
of the word " may" in acts of Parliament, whether it
was imperative or permissive only.
Lord ST. LEONARDS said that it should not be for-
gotten that the moment they touched the formal lan-
guage of an act of Parliament, they made a new statute.
The difficulty which had been felt with regard to the
word " may," whether it was imperative or permissive,
would give their lordships an idea of the consequences to
which the slightest alteration in an act of Parliament
might lead. The moment they attempted to alter the
formal language of an act of Parliament, they at once
established a code ; and if they were to have a coda at
.all, it.must embrace both the common and the statute
laws. Some of their lordships who had examined in com-
mittee the question of what the probable operation of a
code would be, were aware of the great difficulties which
stood in the way of codification. It was suggested that
the proper course would be to entrust the framing of all
bills to competent persons, and that when the bills were
prepared, no alterations should be introduced into them
without being submitted to the framers. But still this
mode of proceeding would not be free from difficulty, be-
cause, in committee, an alteration might 'be suggested
and adopted, and then, when the bill came to be exa-
mined by the person who understood the whole of the
measure, it was hopeless to expect that he would find it
free from very gross errors. They must take blanie to
themselves for many of the errors which appeared in acts
of Parliament ; for bills did not receive that deliberate
Conlideration and discussion in committee which was re-
quired. Their lordships had it in their own power to see
that alterations should be openly mentioned and dis-
cussed before they were allowed to be passed, and if that
care were taken, he felt perfectly satisfied that a great
part of the mischief would be remedied ; but no body of
men could be responsible for a vast number of bills sent
up from the other house at the end of the session, and
thrown together on their lordships' table, when there
was not sufficient time to consider the provisions of each.
The Earl of ABERDEEN said that her Majesty's Go-
vernment were anxious to facilitate the progress of bills
by introducing them at as early a period as possible into
their lordships' house.

. Lord BROUGHAM was rejoiced to hear that the noble
earl's attention was addressed to this most important
sUbject. Upon, a former occasion, when he (Lord
Brougham) had brought forward the question of the
manner in which our laws ought to be made, his late la-
mented friend) Lord Ashbuton, had said to him, " you
may depend upon it, that of all the amendments in the
law which you are proposing, this is by much the most
self-evident, by much the most clear ; and it is the 'unde-
niable duty of Parliament to adopt it ; and yet you
also depend upon it, that you will find it far less may
dif6.-
cult to carry all other amendments
than to obtain the
sanction of Parliament to this most important and
admitted that there
simple one." He (Lord Brougham)
were difficulties in an alteration of the language of acts
of Parliament, because they mugt take care that the
new law was framed in language that would suit the
former judicial interpretation. But though he acknow-
ledged the task to be difficult, he did not think it WAS im-
possible, but believed that some means might be disco-
vered for avoiding gross errors. That so much might be
dne, and that so much would be done, he had no manner
of doubt. But he doubted whether they would
enough if they only prevented grosser errors from
gettingshould
into the statutes, lie thought
„ifto,hfat greatt care
equal
be taken in the original
care should be taken in frathmie --'
each
.n
act—that
discuBswes that inight he
especially with regard to h
t_o. Chang :
made in the course of that discussion
greater care must be taken
their lordships' house from
terations introduced
amendments. But that 0 and that still
when a, bill came back to
its clauses,
ther place where the al-
another
always in the nature of
wereslin this could be done by the

superintending care of an individual he utterly den
,and for this reason—that the best security against over-
sights was to be found in more minds than one being ap-
plied to the subject. His noble and learned friend near
him had said that it would be better if more care were
taken by,their lordships in working out .the details of
measures both in committee and at subsequent stages.
He (Lord Brougham) would not say it was hopeless that
their lordships should take more care, but that he should
.ever see that assembly remaining there from about the
present hOur,, half-past six o'clock, through the next cri-
tical half-hour of the evening—(laughter)—he hardly
expected ; and that he should see their lordships, not
only sitting through that difficult hour of the night, but
for four or five hours longer, in order to get through the
measures before them—he would not say that he de-
spaired of sucha result, but his hopes were moderate.
(Renewed laughter.) - Still he believed it to be highly
desirable, and by no means impossible, that they should
avail themselves of the knowledge and labo'irs of learned
persons in framing bills by way of what the civilians
would call an adatiniculuni". Some time ago he had laid
before their lordships a proposal of this kind in reference
to proceedings upon
private hills, and had no manner of
doubt that a board of this description, acting under the
superintendence ol his noble friend on the woolsack, and
in communication with the Government, would enable
their lordships to secure a due, wise, and safe prepara-
tion.of acts of Parliament. lie had always been of opi-
nion that the appointment of a ininister of justice would
be a flighly expedient measure. Many agreed to the
thing who objected to the term, and he thought that the
late changes in his noble and learned friend's court, by
which Lords. Justices were appointed in addition to the
Vice-Chancellors, had substantially given to the Lord
Chaticelfor,the power of acting as a minister of justice.
Many itnproyements still remained to be effected which
prejudice had been so powerful as hitherto to have pre-
vented, and on this ground he would take leave to read
to their lordships the .words of a dear and lamented
and most venerable friend of his, Sir Samuel Romilly,
who, upon his failing for the third or fourth time to ob-
tain the assent of Parliament to some of those enlight-
ened measures for the amendnibnt of thelaw which he so
often proposed, said—" I am not so unacquainted with
the nature of prejudice as not to have observed that it
strikes deep root and flourishes in all soils, and spreads
its branches in every direction ; but I have observed
also that, flourish as it may, it must by laws sacred and
immutable wither and decay after the powerful and re-
peated touch of truth." And, he added, " Whatever
may be my fate, the seed which I have scattered is not
fallen upon stony ground." It had not fallen upon stony
ground ; for every one of those measures—and let every
moderate and judicious amender of the law take comfort
'front this fact—every one of the measures which that il-
lustrious man had propounded had now become the law
of the land, together with an amount of other improve-
ments which even he, sanguine as he was, had hardly
dared to expect. (Hear.) •

COUNTY ELECTIONS POLLS BILL.
The house having, on the motion of the Earl of CAR-
LISLE, passed through committee on this bill,
Lord BROUGHAM said that he wished to take the
present opportunity of expressing his gratification at the
introduction of this useful measure, which he believed
would tend, in some degree to diminish the expenses of
elections, and also to abate in some measure the crying
evil -of the time, namely, the system of bribery and cor-
ruption at elections. He (Lord Brougham) wished to
see the suffrage extended in safe and well-considered
directions, though God forbid it should become univer-
sal ; but he did not wish for the extension of suffrage
with the view of preventing corruption, for it was.per-
fectly clear that that would not be prevented by extend-
ing the number of voters. If there was a place with
1,000 voters, 900 of whom were on one side, it was not
there that attempts would be made to bribe. It was
where there were 600 on one side and 400 on the other,
and it was with respect to the balance that bribery took
place. (Hear, hear.) Might not the same thing happen
where there were 10,000 voters instead of 1,000 ? Take
the case of any great city where there were 10,000 or
12,000 voters. The respectable part of the constituency
came forward, and gave their votes, and there remained
a difference between the parties of 200 or 300. It 'was
to that difference that the corrupting party addreSsed
himself, and the result was that as much bribery took
place in that great city as in any small borough of be-
tween 800 and 1,000 voters. (Hear, hear.) Therefore,
it was not by extending the suffrage, neither was it by
secret voting, that bribery was to be put down. He
(Lord Brougham) had the misfortune to differ froth a
great many able and excellent men who thought that the
ballot was the true remedy for the evil ; but after all the
pains he had taken to make himself master of their argu-
ments he was not able to agree with them. It was Cer-
tain that the ballot would prevent the
.detection of the
•offence—(hear, hear)—but that was a very different
thing from preventing the offence itself. You could not
by the ballot prevent a bargain being made between the
voter and the candidate. The voter might be told,
" Let so and so be returned and you shall have 51.," and
thus he would be converted into an active agent for the
return of that party, and would be interested not only in
voting himself for that party, but in getting others to
vote along with him. He (Lord Brougham) would beg
to ask his noble friend at the head of the Government
whether or not he was prepared to frame some measure
for endeavouring if possible to, extirpate this great evil
from our constituencies, either by prosecuting the offend-
ers at the public expense, or by increasing the punish-
ment of the offence, not to the unhappy voter, but to the
party bribing Y He trusted that his noble friend could
give him hopes that the attention of the Government was
directed to this subject. (Hear, hear.)
The Earl of ABERDEEN said he could assure Lis
nol.le and learned friend that it was impossible that he
could be more anxious to check the present system of
bribery and corruption than her Majesty's Government
were. That being the case, of course the subject OCCII-
- their most serious attention, and lie did trust that
something might be done. His noble friend the member
for the city of London, if he had not yet given notice' of
a motion in the ether house of Parliament, at all events
had his attention occupied with the subject, and they
had a hope of diminishing the evil to which his noble
and learned friend alluded, and which, if it were to con-
tinue as it existed at present, would go far to brin,e• the
whole of our representative system into contempt. (Loud
cries of " hear, hear," from Lord Brougham.) He was
not prepared to say that there was any measure at this
moment ready for Parliament, but that something would
be done he thought he might confidently say. And ho
did hope that that house would give its active co-oper-
ation in framing such a measure, and would not receive
it with any indifference or reluctance, but would lend its
hearty assistance to that which has now become a mat-
ter of necessity.
'Lord WHARNCLIFFE said that the time had come
when it was incumbent upon Parliament to take mea-
sures for preventing the present system of bribery and
corruption. He had not the slightest doubt that their
lordships would do all in their power to give their co-
operation and ready and anxious assistance to any meas-
ure calculated to attain that end. But he must say that
he thought they should not lay too much stress upon the
exposures which were now being made. He had no wish
to explain away the nature of the transactions which had
been brought before the public, but it had been said that
at the last general election there had been greater cor-
ruption than had ever existed before, and that the crime
of bribery was on the increase. Now, for his part, he
gordennktlythadtouitbtwe the t
asd
nottruthof that
desirable
blothataistsseiritoiioni
di, andg he
ofor did
think
the country and to the world at large that the whole of
the Parliamentary constituency of this country was in a
gradual course of progressive corruption. The truth was
that changes had been introduced into the mode of in-
vestigating these cases. Some short time since it was
indispensable not merely to show that bribery Imo. exist-
ed in any case, but to connect it with the candidate him-
self. That practice was now entirely altered. It was
only necessary to prove one single case of an offence of
that description in order to invalidate the election, and
to displace the person who had been returned. It was
his (Lord Wharneliffe's) belief, from the experience which
he had had in transactions of this kind, that there was
scarcely a member ever in Parliament who would not
have been unseated if all the circumstances connected
with his contested elections had
gv‘eav
sgibeledioneitwihi
nloecunpalodowks
ateeicnot
struggleNi
on fo
their
rr w)io had gone through a contested election could be ig-
n
aon
four thatsaentan thatkdikind,
would
o,whenuthered m
placeew n e
rteh werethemselves
menseenl
c
friends, with whom the candidates could not refuse to
act, but who, excited by the continuance of the cointhteost,
.would be induced to do acts of this kind desiring to throw the responsibility ef briebveernyvtoin any
one but themselves. If a single case of this description
could be proved to a committee, it w now sufficient to
unseat a candidate, and to brand the place with th
stigma of corruption. For this reason it did appear to
him to be just to the constituencies of this country to
conclude that they were at this moment more corrupted
than at a former period.
excuse such practices as
both
hnhae did not mean to palliate or
thoughtth ugitt itth
theire
od
rudt ys h r
be
epdcaarbuaest been
on n complained of. He
their best eneer
e
selves and to tghvvieeo oifpsbwouhld°usbeesdooifnPg
sr] country
nt
httrhoayte,
successful than usual i
Claim. to th
that more corruption had Drevailedtlithanboand
In detecting corruption, therefore
any former
occasion. -
(Hear.)
the spirit
The Earl of CARLISLE fully concurred in
noble
of the remarks which had just fallen from his
been more
friend, whose experience in the matter
been somewhat analogous concurrFnotly
his with
to check,
And yielding, as he did, to no man
i it would not be for
and prevent bribery, he still thought
at large if oetyce.itlyihuasewmtieeecv2tlt'totobotual tpreihnl
of electionsl had..
go on with so much
running down of what was
viciouso
include in it what the
want of discrimination,
as to
never regard as wholly
general sense of mankindi
b For instance, the act of a
the benefit, even of virtue itself, to make the pursuit and
and equally rePrp.ehen of beer to a voter who had made 'a
man who gave a °IaSS
long journey to support a candidate, ought not be looked
on in the same light
a
person committing direct and
downright acts of bribery. He trusted the bill now
would I found serviceable, because
it had been found
from experience that the second day's
poll not only imposed considerable additional expense-
-n the candidate, but had a tendency to lead parties to
to bribery and other discreditable acts,
have recourse
which he was glad to observe the Legislatureshowing a
strong disposition to discourage. (Hear, hear.)
INLAND REVENUE OFFICE BILL.
On the motion of Lord STANLEY of' Alderley, this
bill passed through committee.
• COMMONS INCLOSURE (No. 2) BILL.
throucommittee.ghOn
CERYI BILL.
The LORD CHANCELLOR,
in moving the com-
mittal of. this bill, said he wished to make a single re-
Int 4 reference to a petition Which lie had pre.