The Sun.
London, England, 1853-04-05 00:00:00

minute which it was now proposed to cancel against all
the imputations which had been brought against it. (Hear,
hoar.)
Mr. PHINN regretted the timid and hesitating tone of
some portions of the noble lord's speech, and expressed his
belief that, when the measure came to be placed before the
public, the people would be found outrunning the Govern-
ment, and showing that they were far in advance of them
on the subject. (Hear, hear.) The question naturally di-
vided itself into two heads—upon one of which alone the
noble lord had touched on that occasion—upon the other,
and that the most difficult point, the noble lord had been
entirely silent. With respect to those who were willing to
participate in the benefits of education, there could be little
difficulty; but there was another class to which he begged
to invite the attention of the house and the Government,
and that was the class who did not want to participate in
those benefits, and with respect to whom it was worthy of
consideration whether some compulsory education should
not be provided. (Hear, hear.) It must be familiar to all
who were engaged in the administration of criminal justice
whether as advocates or judges, in both of which capacities
'however humbly, be was himself engaged, that there was
growing up, in the midst of our civilisation, a class of peo-
ple more like wild beasts than men, a class almost savage
in their habits, and he might say, in almost every respect,
degraded to the rank of savages by their ignorance of social
religious, and intellectual knowledge ; and if the Govern-
ment were not prepared to apply some strong measure to
this state of things the end would be--though it might not
be in our time—that there would be a frightful disorgani-
sation of society. (Hear, hear.) No one indeed could ad-
vert to the vast number of persons roaming about our
streets without any other means of support than that of
preying on their fellow-subjects without seeing that their
case presented a frightful question. He, for one, would
be the last to propose that the Legislature should med-
dle unnecessarily with the independence of the subject,
but if they had a right to say to the owners of pro-
perty that they were not entitled to hold that
property without maintaining those who were unable
to maintain themselves, he held that they had equally
a right to say that they were not entitled to hold
that property without attempting to bring to the know-
ledge of the Gospel, and of their social and moral relations,
those who were not provided for by their parents or
friends. He hoped, therefore, that the Government—and
if not the Government, some old and experienced member
of the house—would be prepared to invite the attention of
house to this great question ; and he felt sure that, how-
ever stringent the measure that might be proposed, and
whatever expense it might involve, the people generally
would approve of it, and be ready to make the greatest
sacrifices in its support ; for, looking at it in a mere pecu-
niary point of view, he believed it would be found amply
to repay the expenditure. (Hear, hear.) He hoped that,
if not this year or the next, at an early period, the noble
lord would be able to present to the country a great, sound,
and comprehensive system of national education, which
would be the most enduring monument of his name, be-
cause exceeding in its ultimate results those political advan-
tages which he had been in instrumental in bestowing upon
the nation.
Mr. WIGRAM observed, that it appeared to him that
the general measure of education proposed by the noble
lord well deserved the consideration and favour of the
house, because he understood that the purpose of the noble
lord really was to aim at extending a system which had
been already tried in the country, and which had produced
very great and admirable results. (Hear, hear.) Those
results had been attained consistently with the m.lintenance
of peace and goodwill among all classes, and any measure
which aimed at extending such a system would certainly
meet with his support.
Mr. BLACKETT said there was only one point to which
he wished to advert, and he must say he regretted that the
noble lord did not allude to a university which wanted as
much reform as Oxford or Cambridge—he meant the Uni-
versity of Durham. He believed that institution had suc-
ceeded in a very few years in reaching the same perfection
of mismanagement as Oxford and Cambridge. They all
knew that it was conducted on the purely ecclesiastical
system ; that the professorial teaching had fallen into dis-
use, and that scientific lectures were as badly attended as
in either of the two universities. This was the more
severely felt in the part of the country with which he was
connected, because it was expected that, being in the neigh-
bourhood of the collieries, it would afford a school for
mining and engineering purposes. He understood the
noble lord to state that he would not bring forward any
measure on the subject this year ; and recollecting that
there was a passage in the Queen's Speech upon education,
and that the general opinion was that some enabling act
would have been brought in by Lord Derby's Government,
he regretted to find that all hopes of improvement from
legislation were further removed than before. At the
same time he must offer his humble tribute of admiration
at tin views expressed by the noble lord with reference to
independent students, the extension of the professorial
system, and the making of intellectual merit the test of
success for all classes. He was very glad to hear this from
the noble lord, because, in 1850, the right honourable gen-
tleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer used language on
this subject, which no doubt had some influence upon the
line of conduct pursued by the University of Oxford in re-
ference to the royal commission. He agreed, however, with
his hon. and learned friend the member for Bath, when he
said that the noble lord was more timid than his own com-
missioners. He understood the noble lord meant to give the
universities mote time, and if they did not act, then he
would come to Parliament for powers to compel them to do
what was proper. But time was the very thing which
the Oxford Conservatives wanted to gain, but nothing
would induce him to grant it, because he was convinced
that they would make as bad a use of it as they did be-
fore. This demand for time was not new. In 3834 or
1835, when Lord Radnor brought the question before the
House of Lords, the late Duke of Wellington said that the
University of Oxford had entered upon the consideration
of its statutes, and that the colleges were about to do the
same, but from that time to the present no step had been
taken by any Oxford college. The hon. baronet, who was
the senior representative of the University of Oxford, ex-
pressed great alarm at what the noble lord had said he
would do if the university did not act, but the hon. bart.'s
apprehensions were unfounded, for if the noble lord did
not strike while the iron was hot, all internal dissensions
would be appeased, and Oxford would again present the
same unbroken front to improvement which it had always
done. He would ask the noble lord whether the
commissioners approved of this delay. He (Mr.
Blackett) • had no authority to speak their senti-
ments, but the spoke of the " immediate" necessity of
opening the scholarships, and of abrogating the oaths to
observe the statutes. The house was aware that the in-

quiries of the commissioners were met by the reply that
the oaths to observe the statutes stood in the way of an
answer being given by the fellows to the request made to
them in the name of her Majesty. In the course of every
year there were thirty or forty fellowships and other offices
of emolument within the university given away, and upon
admission to which this oath of a perpetual observance of
the statutes was taken. Every year, therefore, added a
fresh crop of persons, who were ready to plead that oath
as a bar to any inquiry. The Vice-Chancellor had refused
to give any information to the commissioners, and only
three colleges and three halls had communicated informa-
tion to the commissioners. The commissioners had, how-
ever, reported, and when it was known that an appeal was
to be made by the Ministers of the Crown to the autho-
rity of Parhament, he thought it was the duty of the
University of Oxford to abstain from taking any steps
which were formally condemned by the commission. One
of the recommendations of the commission was that the
revenues of the university should not be applied to objects
that were not academical, yet the university, although it
had given 1,0001. last year to the diocesan training school,
and had thereby mortgaged the surplus revenue of cur-
rent year, the university thought proper to give 5001.
towards the testimonial to the late Duke of Wellington.
He perfectly agreed with the noble lord that the most
valuable of the recommendations of the commissioners was
the extension of the university system to students without
exacting from them admjssion to the several colleges, the
main advantage of which would be that it would break the
neck of the ecclesiastical and the tutorial system. The
noble lord was probably aware that the Liberal-Conserva-
tive portion of the university had organised itself in oppo-
sition to the recommendations of the commissioners, and
on this last head the tutors' association had put forward a
separate scheme of its own. It had assented to other por-
tions of the scheme, such as the erection of independent
halls under private masters of arts, but they steadily re-
fused any countenance to the project of students uncon-
nected with colleges. This, he thought, was a fair speci-
men of the way in which the University of Oxford would
emasculate and temper down the recommendations of the
commission. In conclusion, he could not help lamenting
that the main obstacle to efficient university reform was a
Coalition Cabinet;
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did not rise
to go into the various points which had been raised inci-
dentally in this discussion, or to follow the hon. gentleman
who had just sat down through the particulars of his at-
tack upon the University of Oxford, and upon members of
that university, who, in his (the Chancellor` of the Ex-
chequer's) opinion, deserved the highest honour—(hear)—
and had taken part not now only in the cause of university
reform—(hear)—but he wished to answer the questions of
his noble friend (Lord J. Manners), and to notice one or
two of the points which had been referred to. The noble:
lord had asked whether there would be any objection
which it
lay upon the table the minute of Privy Council
was intended to substitute for that of Junethel2thlBs2
There would be no objection whatever
Butto the
noble lord
the immediate
production of that minute. (
did not give a correct description of the minute of June,
1852, when he said that the promoters of Church of Eng-
land schools had laboured under a.grievance in not being
allowed to constitute their trusts in the manner agreeable
to their own convictions, while a liberty of that kind_ was
gives to the founders of Romantsay Catholic schools.
chschfeouonlsd.ersThoef
minute of June, 1852. did n
Church of England schools s.hooullbe at liberty to consti-
tute their trusts in the manner they thought fit. The ob-
ject of that minute, if it had one, and no doubt it had a
rational object, was to prevent the retention, through local
misunderstanding, or undue influence or intrigue of im-
moral or improper persons in the office of schoolmaster •
and, as far as that object was concerned, he trusted the
noble lord would see by the minute which had now been
adopted it would be fully secured. But as to the noble
lord's construction of the minute of June, 1852, he
could not have had the minute in his recollectiOn when he
referred to it as giving to the
of England schools a liberty promoters of Church
which it would be very
unreasonable in them to claim andr very improper in any
Government to give. (Hear, hear The noble lord asked
whether Scotland was included in the plan which had that
evening been announced. That
plan in no respect extend-
ed to Scotland ; the intentions
of the Governm twi‘h
of to Scotland, when they should be matured,
would
be explained upon a distinct occasion.
(Hear.) The noble
lord also asked whether it
was intended
by the bill for the
regulation of charitable trusts to provide that every separ-
ate scheme of reform which might be framed under the
provisions of that bill should be made the subject of a se-
parate act of Parliament. Of course, with regard to the
precise frame of the bill, it would be better that the noble
lord should wait for the bill than trust to a general descrip-
tion of it; but what was intended was to adopt a provision
somewhat similar to that of the Enclosure Act. It would
be necessary to come to Parliament for schemes of reform
in the case of charities where the trustees did not give their
consent, but it would nor be necessary to come for a separ-
ate act in each case; it might be found practicable to com-
bine a number in a single act, just as now a number of
schemes of enclosure might be combined in one act of Par-
liament. (Hear, hear.) The hon. member for Bath (Mr.
Phinn) referred to the great schools of this country, and
thought they ought to have been comprised in the state-
ment which had been made to the house. When the
Attorney-General of the late Government (Sir F. Thesi-
ger) introduced a bill last year for the regulation
of charitable trusts. it would have admitted an inquiry
into the great schools and the manner in which they
managed their funds ; and he (the Chancellor of the
Exchequer) believed those great schools would be included
within the scope of the bill which it was now indended to
introduce into the House of Lords for the regulation of
charitable trusts, and it would be premature to enter
upon the subject on this occasion. It was quite true that
those schools discharged an office preliminary in a great