The Sun.
London, England, 1853-08-03 00:00:00

E SUN, LON DON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, AUGUST 3, 1853.

MPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

been analysed at the laboratory, and on which 470 prose-
cutions have been instituted, not a single prosecution
without a convie,ion." Now I think your lordships will
admit that that at least shows that there has been activity
and honesty in carrying out the provisions of this Trea-
sury minute. (Hear.) I can only say that the accu-
sation or insinuation against the proper conduct of these
officers is utterly calumnious, and has no sort of foun-
dation. The noble lord mentioned a particular dealer
whose name I forget.
Viscount TORRINGTON—John Cassell.
The Earl of ABERDEEN--Exactly—whom the
noble lord supposed to have been specially favoured by
the authorities, and to have had a license from them to
sell coffee without the prescribed label. Now, I learn
from the best authority, namely the head of the depart-
ment, that the coffee of that man has been repeatedly
un
analysed
aladtdl
the
es
that
quantityd and
which has
statemento been
hf e
acsopfftr
:of
coffee
the amount
adetinno b t
000 u
sell.
ttp f uoiror e
hw.
TohhmTiecehhne
ccor
oeob fnlnoessrul hnaionrii
:de
ttii oonn stibi
ee been r
edei
months
diminished. .e n
dNi
nogwt e hsatvhe
olife
Jr here returnlss3,
in
ly,
as compared with the same preceding year. The quan-
tity in 1852 was 8,000,0001b5. ; the quantity in 1853
was 8,977,0001b5.- an increase of nearly 1,000,0001b5.
Vi: count TORRINGTON said the returns to which
he had referred extended up to the sth of June ; he had
none later.

pahll RAILWAT9.

Leasing
Compass,

iClosing Price
‘ Yesterday.

Business
this day•

HOUSE OF LORDS—(YESTERDAY.)
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack

L. &N.W.
Calcclon..,

107 -109
54 - 55

at five o'clock

Gt.Northni
Gt.Westn.
Yk. New.
& Berw
Y. &N. Md
Do
Do

.50 - 152
33 - 34

THE EASTERN QUESTION.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE seeing the noble
lord the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs in his
place, he wished to ask him a question respecting the
state of the Danubian Provinces. It appeared that the
Russian forces had taken absolute possession of these
provinces, and replaced the Hospodars of Moldavia and
Wallachia, and since this was a preliminary to hostilities
the movement must be of the utmost importance to the
whole of Europe. He was sure that he should be ex-
cused for asking for the fullest information upon the sub-
ject, and he wished to know if the noble lord had re-
ceived any information which in any way confirmed the

Ll3l -114 a
56 -- 57
27i -- 28
141 -14 i
26 -- 27

S. Eastern
,Do

(Norfolk
Do

98 - 100

Lu.&N.W.
& Midld.
Stektou &
Darlingt.
Midland...

3 - 31

108 - 110

report to which he referred.
The Earl of CLARENDON was glad that this ques-
tion had been put, because it would enable him to fur-
nish the fullest information that he was in possession of
on the subject, and to convey to the world the fact that
her Majesty's Government took the same view of theFe
proceedings as the noble Marquis. By a dispatch which
he had received from Lord Stratford, it appeared that
the Consul-General of Russia had directed the Hospodar
of Moldavia to hold no communication with the Porte,
and not to pay the tributes that were due to the
Turkish Sovereign. Not, however, that it was
intended to disturb the constitution of the Prin-
cif):

E. Count
Do
Do
L. &I\ . W
67,Ln&Yk

65 - 67

... -- •

••

... - •

The Earl of ABERDEEN—But I have ' • and an in
crease of 1,000,0001b5. shows that under the present
minute there has been no diminution. Now, the fact
is, that chicory is a substance which, up to last year
up to the passing of the minute of the late Government
—was, I believe, used without any restriction whatever.
From the year 1840, up to the year before last, it was
left to dealers and the public to please themselves with
regard to the use of this mixture. There seems to
have been no restriction, and chicory was not consi-
dered in the nature of adulteration. The matter which
has been mixed with coffee is not, as the noble lord
has stated, a spurious substance, but one which, if I
were obliged to characterise it, I should say was rather
salutary than otherwise--(laughter) ; and for this
reason it was left open for the public and the dealers to
do as they pleased. The restriction made last year was
found practically impossible, or at least practically in-
convenient, to execute, in consequence of its increasing
the trouble and expense, and also preventing the possi-
bility of the mixture taking place, from the different
description of the substance when ground and packed in
the manner that was necessary. The Chancellor of the
Exchequer inquired most deliberately and extensively
before he issued the present minute, and was governed
solely by a desire to meet the public demand, and to
suit the public convenience, particularly of the lower
classes ; and, notwithstanding the expression of a con-
trary opinion, I am convinced that the great body of
consumers in this country of the lower orders have
every reason to be satisfied with the minute at present
existing. (Hear.)
The Earl of MA_LMESBURY said that since the
minute of the late was superseded by that of the present
Government he had heard no sufficient reason assigned
for the change. As to his noble friend's remark that
unless the two substances were mixed by the sellers,
they could not be mixed at all, he must say he could
only attribute such a defence to his noble friend's well-
known partiality for coalition and confusion. (Laughter.)
The extent to which adulteration was now carried, not
in coffee only, but in many other articles, was really
fearful. If the noble earl could find leisure to consult
ca
two or three of the best Londohemists, he would
find that adulteration was being ptised mists, a frightful
extent with regard to almost every substance sold in
the market. Although his noble friend had been so
hard on the minute of the late Government, he was
convinced that the majority of the public considered it
greatly preferable to the existing minute.
Lord WHARNCLIFFE said he had often felt asto-
nished at the tone adopted on this subject, not only by
the present Government but by previous Governments a
tone which would naturally lead to the inference that
though they were vested with powers for checking adul-
teration, they would rather abdicate their functions than
exercise them, and that they desired in fact, to encourage
such practices. He entirely concurred in the noble vis-
count's object and hoped that in the next session the
whole matter would form the subject of inquiry.
Lord BEAUMONT said, having listened with great
attention to the statement of the noble viscount, hemust
say that he had subsequently heard nothing from the
noble earl to upset it. (Hear, hear.) It was surely the
interest of the consumer to know that when he went
into a shop he would obtain the article which he wanted.
If the label showed the exact proportions in which coffee
and chicory were mixed, he would know exactly what
he was purchasing ; but the effect of the present minute
was that he could not tell the value of the article which
he paid for. The only reason which he had heard in
favour of the existing minute was that, if the two sub-
stances were sold separately, it would be difficult to mix
them. In the memorial referred to by the noble viscount
it was well observed that boiling water would do all that
was necessary in that respect. He understood that of
the mixture sold about 75 per cent. was chicory and
only 25 per cent, coffee, whilst the price charged was the
reverse of these proportions. He did not know whether
this was true or not, but it was possible and even probable
under the last Treasury minute. That minute was dis-
advantageous to the revenue and to the consumer, and
was advantageous only to the dealer, and, in this in-
stance, be must say the fraudulent dealer. He trusted
that an inquiry would be instituted next year, and
that an opportunity would be given of hearing all the
parties interested in the question. (Hear.)
The Duke of ARGYLL said he rose not for the pur-
pose of entering into the question of the Treasury mi-
nute but to observe, in respect to the chemical action of
boiling water, that its operation was very different as
the substance was finely or grossly disintegrated. It
might be, a great convenience and saving of trouble to
the poor man to have the coffee and chicory mixed for

150 - 152
150 - 152

•1 - axa

,
1103

; but while Russia held military occu-
pation of the provinces, it was deemed expedient
by the Court of St. Petersburgh that the powers
of the Porte should be temporarily suspended. So
much for Moldavia. With regard to Wallachia,
he had received no information corresponding with
that which related to Moldavia ; but by accounts
dated the 22d inst., he learned that, although similar
steps had not then been taken by the Russian com-
mander there, it was fully expected that the nospodar
of Wallachia would shortly receive the same direc-
tions that had been given to the Hospodar of Moldavia.
These instructions he had already declared were tanta-
mount to a usurpation of the powers and functions of
the Sultan, who was undoubtedly the sovereign prince
of the Principalities ; and the information he had
communicated to their lordships therefore required some
explanation from Russia. Her Majesty's Government
viewed the proceedings of Russia as an act of usurpation
of the sovereign rights of the Porte, and a messenger was
about to be despatched to Sir Hamilton Seymour, at St.
Petersburgh—indeed he would leave London this very
evening—conveying the expression of their opinion
of this conduct on the part of Russia, and
instructing him to demand those explanations from the
Emperor which her Majesty's Government felt they were
entitled to ask for. He should at the same time add that
the Porte had already moved in the matter, and if the
Sultan had not done so before now, there could be no
doubt whatever but that an energetic protest would,
ultimately, be addressed by him to the Emperor on the
subject, since it was stated in the despatch of the 17th,
that the Hospodar of Moldavia had been ordered to
withdraw from the seat of his government, and to hold
no communication whatever with the Russian authori-
ties.
After a few words from Lord LYNDHURST which did
not reach the gallery the subject dropped.
The Summary Jurisdiction (Ireland) Bill, and the
Petty Sessions (Ireland) Bill were reported with amend-

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ments.
The Entails (Scotland) Bill was read a third time and
passed

ENTRY OF SEAMEN BILL.
Earl GRANVILLE, in moving the second reading
of the bill, stated that a commission had been appointed
by the late Government to inquire into the best mode of
obtaining and retaining an efficient body of seamen for
the Queen's service, and that this bill was founded upon
the report of that commission. The object of the bill
was to provide for the enlistment of seamen for a period
of ten years, with a gratuity for that increased term of
service, amounting to one penny per diem for boys, two
pence for able seamen, and a higher amount for petty
officers. It was proposed that any one entering the
navy under 18 years of age should serve until they were
28, and at or above that age to serve 10 years. The
bill contained several other clauses, but he had enume-
rated the principal provisions.
Lord COLCHESTER briefly expressed his approval
of the bill, which was then read a second time.

PUBLIC LIBRARIES (IRBILL.ELAND AND
SCOTLAND)
On the motion of Lord KINNAIRD, the house went
into committee on this bill.
The Earl of DONOUGHMORE was understood to
move an amendment excluding Ireland for three months,
on the ground that the minor corporations of Ireland
were in so corrupt a state that any measure like the pre-
sent would inevitably be converted into a job in the
carrying out.
Lord NIONTEAGLE warmly supported the bill, and
said that there was no part of the United Kingdom in
which the taste for information had more increased of
late years than in Ireland.
The Earl of WICKLOW had hoped that this bill
would have met no opposition in their lordships' house,
seeing that although an Irish bill, not one member of
the other house had risen to oppose it. He believed it
would be attended with the most beneficial results.
The Earl of DONOUGHMORE withdrew his amend-
ment, and the bill passed through committee.
STAMP DUTIES (No. 2.) BILL.
This bill was read a third time and passed.
The Turnpike Acts Continuance and the Highway
Rates Bills severally passed through committee.
The Resident Magistrates, Ireland ; Turnpike Trusts
Arrangements ; Sheep Contagious Diseases Prevention
Bills, were severally read a third time and passed.
The Sheriffs Court (Scotland) Bill was reported, with
amendments, as were also the Elections Bill, and the
Burgh Harbours Bill.

him.
The Earl of WICKLOW thought that there must be
some strong reason why the Government submitted to a
loss of revenue in permitting chicory, on which there
was no duty, to be sold as coffee, on which there was a
duty. There might be something in the circumstance
that chicory by itself was liable to cake, but whether
the fact was so or not ought to be ascertained, and that
was an additional reason for inquiry. He thought the
Treasury minute was calculated to lead to frauds on the
public. The label on the mixture was no guard against
fraud in respect to the proportions in the mixture. He
hoped either that there would be a return to the Trea-
sury minute of the last Government, or that the Govern-
ment would institute an inquiry next year.
Lord MONTEAGLE was sorry that the noble lord
who introduced the subject had thought fit to make an
unwarrantable attack on public servants. (Hear.)
Viscount TORRINGTON denied that he had made
any attack. He distinctly stated that he did not bring
any charge against ally persons. All he said was that
there was a feeling out of doors that certain public servants
had not done their duty to the public in the matter.
Lord MONTEAGLE was glad that he had obtained
such a disavowal from the noble lord. He was glad that
the noble lord disclaimed the intention of making any
charge, though he regretted he did not say that he did not
lend it his countenance. He could not agree with the
noble lord that chicory was an injurious mixture. He
believed it to be perfectly harmless. But that was not
the question, for a fraud might be as much committed
by the mixing of articles which were entirely safe as
articles which were deleterious. For instance, no one
could say that the mixing of water, which he believed
was perfectly harmless—(a laugh)—with milk, was not
a fraud on the consumer. By allowing chicory to be
mixed and sold with coffee, they permitted the substitu-
tion of an article which paid no duty for one which did,
to the loss of the revenue. But it was said that the
permitting of the mixture increased the consumption of
coffee. But the coffee planter did not think so, for
they were opposed to the permission. He would recom-
mend the Government to institute an inquiry, as the
only means of doing justice to all parties.
Lord REDESDALE said that the growers and sel-
lers of chicory must have some great and undue in-
fluence on the Government, because chicory was the
only article in favour of which the law which prohibited
and punished the mixture and sale of a spurious matter
was suspended. He thought there ought to be an
inquiry.
The subject then dropped.
IRISH LAND BILLS.
The Earl of DONOUGHMORE wished to know
when the Irish land measures, which were of great im-
portance to the holders of property in Ireland, would
be fixed.
The Duke of NEWCASTLE said that he would fix
the second reading of the Landlord and Tenant Bill
and the Tenant Compensation Bill for Tuesday next.
The Earl of DONOUGHMORE—And the Leasing
Powers Bill ?
The Duke of NEWCASTLE said he would fix that
also for Tuesday.
The Earl of WICKLOW wished to know when the
Land Improvement Bill which stood for a third reading
would be taken.
Viscount CANNING thought it would be better to
take the second reading of the other bills before proceed-
ing with the third reading of the Land Improvement
Bill.
After a few words from the Earls of WICKLOW and
DONOUGHMORE,
Lord MONTEAGLE thought the better course to
pursue would be, to discuss the two bills together, on
the night which had seen already named, and leave the
third reading of the other bill to stand until the two
bills in question had been disposed of in the manner
suggested by the noble viscount.
After a few words from the Earl of CLINCA.RTY and
Lord DONOUGHBIORE, the conversation dropped.
Their lordships then adjourned shortly after 8 o'clock.

CHICORY.
Lord TORRINGTON, in rising to present a petition
from the merchants and planters of Ceylon, complaining
of the treasury minute which permitted the mixture of
chicory with coffee, said that the petitioners complained
of the great injury done to their trade by the rescind-
ing of the minute of the late Government, known as the
Derby minute, and prayed that if the present minute
were not rescinded, the duty on chicory and coffee
might be equalised, and thus a fair competition be
established in open market. The difference between the
minutes of the late and present Government was this.
The Derby minute permitted the sale of chicory by
grocers, but provided that it should be made up in
separate parcels and labelled. The minute of the pre-
sent Government permitted its being kept loose, and
and permitted its mixture with coffee provided it
was called a mixture. When the present Government
came into power, it was reported that this alteration
was about to be made, and he (Lord Torrington) did all
in his power to prevent the alteration. The Chancellor
of the Exchequer listened to his representations with
much courtesy, but evidently had made his mind up on
ex-parte statements. He thought, then, that he was
not overstepping his duty in appealing to the
at the head of the Government to give theirnoble earl
lordships
some information as to what was the state of the law
with regard to chicory. People all over England were
unable to get pure coffee, and he wished to learn from
the Government whether it was their intention to carry
out their own minute vigorously and effectually, and
also whether, at some future day, perhaps in the next
session of Parliament, they would grant a committee of
inquiry. .
The Earl of ABERDEEN—I should be happy to see
an end of the great chicory question—(laughter)—which
has occupied the attention of Parliament for so long,
and upon which there has been a great difference of opi-
nion. I must say that the noble lord in the statement
which he has made has been guilty of very great inac-
curacy in many respects. My lords, in the first place,
the alteration made by the Treasury minute to which he
has referred was rendered necessary by the inconvenience,
the hardship, and the difficulties to which the common
people of this country were exposed by the sale of coffee
as directed by the minute of the late Government. The
noble lord says—this is the first time that I have heard
such an assertion—that chicory is an injurious substance.
Why, my lords, half the coffee in Europe is chicory—
(laughter)—especially in the South of France. I will
venture to say that in the South of France the quantity
of chicory that is used is twice as great as the quantity
of coffee. At all events, it is certainly anything but a
deleterious substitute ; and it is preferred, rightly pre-
ferred, by the mass of coffee-drinkers. Your ,lurdships
probably prefer pure coffee—(laughter)—but the great
mass of consumers prefer the mixture. Now, how can
you enable dealers to mix the two substances ? Not
as was attempted by the minute of the late Go-
vernment, which made separate packets necessary.
Coffee when ground remained as a sort of powder, while
chicory became in the packet a sort of solid cake ; and
as it was impossible for parties to mix them themselves,
it became necessary that they should be ground in order
that the mixture might exist. Another reason was the
expense. If a poor man came for an ounce of coffee
and an ounce of chicory, the making a packet of each
added greatly to the expense, trouble, and difficulty of ROUSE OF COMMONS—(YESTERDAY
CHARITABLE TRUSTS BlLLth.e
su.b
je_cot
furnishing him with what he required ; and therefore the
great mass of the common people infiitely preferred Lord J. RUSSELL, in moving that the hpoeuns.eeddo
ean.
having the mixture made for them. Then noble lord says into committee upon this bill, said
that the matter hash een neglected. The regulation un- of Charitable Trusts had for a long
der which chicory ipermitted to be sold is, that a label gaged the attention of Parliament. In 1816 Lord
shall be distinctly placed on the packet stating that it is Brougham brought it promibefore
nently Parlia-
a mixture of coffee and chicory. He pretends to doubt
ment, and from that year up till now, he thought
that the penalty is incurred if coffee is sold without the usual time had elapsed before which questions of
that label. No such doubt can possibly exist. If the great public interest like the present NlVnerleB4g3enaermaellay
label be not distinctly affixed the seller is undoubtedly brought to a satisfactory conclusion
liable to the penalty. But the noble lord has gone fur- sure was brought in by Sir Frederick Pollock, and other
ther ;he has, I must say, in the most unwarrantable bills had been repeatedly introduced since then—one by
manner, insinuated that officers of the highest respects- the Government over which he presided, and another
bility have neglected their duty and been guilty of a sort by Sir FpreesdeenritckseTsshioensigtehre,
Gthoevel.rantemA.entttoargnaeiyn-Gtoeonkernalp.
Hear, hear.) To show how In the r
of complicity in fraud. (
truly the existing minute has been carried
.out, I will the subject, and they introduced into the other house of
read to your lordships a.return of the prosecutions under Parliament the bill which was now before the house.
that very provision which the noble lord contends is of It was referred to a select committee of their lordships,
" There are upwards of 130,000 per- and that committee • reofatthaettepnrtoivoinsiotnosthofe
the bill.
so little efficacy.
sons licensed to deal in coffee in this country, and each and went over the wpahiCilleg
a them has been served with a copy of the enclosed Their opinion was that the question of the superintend-
eneral orders.. The officers of the board have made 2,527 ence and general &drain
special visits for ezamination, buying samples, which have be altogether separated istration of these charities should
from political considerations, or

SIR JAMES BROOKE.
Mr. DRUMMOND asked the noble lord the member for
London, whether a copy of the charges against Sir James
Brooke, contained in Mr. Hume's letter enclosed by Lord
Clarendon to Lord Dalhousie, were communicated to Sir
James previous to his leaving this country, or whether her
Majesty's Ministers took leave of Sir James Brooke pre-
vious to his return to Borneo without letting him know
those charges under which they had at that time resolved
to arraign him ? The house would remember when the
hon. member for Montrose brought forward charges against
Sir J. Brooke, Lord Palmerston declared them to be utterly
unfounded, and yet he saw by the papers of the ho
that the Government had adopted certain charges contained
use
in a letter of Mr. Hume, and sent by Lord Clarendonto
Lord D alhousie, with a specification of the points on which
inquiry should with
a
Lord J. RUSSELL replied, that the Government had
not adopted any charges against Sir J. Brooke ; but the
hon. member for Montrose wrote a letter to Lord Malmes-
bury, containing many charges against him, and when he
at t
(Lord J. Russell) was
requesting him to giveonteign-officeh suchere answersl ferrec:the
ll
letter to Sir J. Brooke,
as he thought fit.helieved that the charges sent out to
Lord Dalhousie were ec
charges, if not the same in words, the
same in substance as those surbomisteteadtotoLSoirrd J.
Dalhousie, o o k Brooke,
With respect to the
the nature of it was whether proposed
was desirable for the public
interest that Sir J. being
in a foreign country, should hold at the same time a Rajah
a variety of public offices,
and have a number of functions to discharge. This inquiry
would give an opportunity
for investigating any charges
which might be made against Sir J. Brooke, and which Sir
J. Brooke had expressed his desire of not shrinking from.
Mr. HUME, in reference to the allegation that he had
brought charges against Sir J. Brooke, said that all he had
done was to refer to a public dispatch mentioning the mas-
sacre of a great number of people, and to demand inquiry.
The hon. member then proceeded to inquire why the vin-
dication of the registrar of the Courtof Singapore, who
had been attacked in some correspondence of Sir J. Brooke,
and called a blackguard, scoundrel, and everything that
was bad, had by the Speaker's directions, not been circu-
lated, it having been laid on the table according to an order
of the house.
The SPEAKER said, he had a simple answer to give.
His attention was called to the document, and he found it
to be a libel from beginning to end. (Hear.)
Mr. HUME said, that what he complained of was that
the charge should be made public, and not the answer.
RUSSIA AND TURKEY.
Lord D. STUART--I wish to put a question to thei
noble lord the member for London, on a subject not only
interesting to this country, but to Europe at large. A noticetime
relating to the Eastern question has been for i somethe
name
standing upon the business paper of the house nd)
of the hon. member for Aylesbury (Mr. Layar which
notice was originally placed upon the paper in my name.
The hon. member for Aylesbury has more than once shown
to bring this important subject before the house,
a de
sirebut as waived his intention in consequence of the expressed
wish of the Government, who thought it would be incon-
venient to the public service that the question should be
debated in Parliament at that particular time. Since then
own() time has elapsed and negotiations hPO gone on, and,

the interests of any particular party, and that they con- it is understood, are still going on, between this country
sidered that the bill would attain that object. They and all the Courts of Europe with relation to the differ-
suggested that the commissioners who were to be named ences which have arisen between the Courts of St. Peters.
by the Crown, and were to have the general admi- burgh and Constantinople. Now, Ido not wish to Asir
nistration of charities,• should hold office during my noble friend to fix at present a day when the subject
good behaviour, and it appeared to him that yea,e be discussed,— but what I wish to know is, whether he
the great object which they all had in view
will before the prorogation of Parliament, which cannot
might be accomplished in that manner. There were
rn- now be very long delayed, appoint a day when my hon.
some alterations which he intended to propose in co
may make his motion,
mittee. Though there were three commissioners, with friend the member for Aylesbury
salaries, named in the bill, it was very probable that and when the question may be discussed, or when at least
after a time the whole number of three would not be the Government may be prepared to make a statement,
required • and therefore he proposed to add a clause at explaining to the house and to the country the present
the end of'
the bill, which would enable the Government, state of our relations with reference to the different powers
after a certain time, to allow one of the appointments to of Europe
cease and determine. According to the bill as it now Lord J. RUSSELL—Upon the last occasion when this
stood, one of the commissioners would not be required
important subject was mentioned the house concurredwitihs
to possess legal qualifications. He was sorry to find
her Majesty's Government in opinion that it was not de.
that Roman Catholic charities could not be placed under
the bill without some special provision, as it was likely sirable to have a discussion on it in the present state of
that its operation might affect their existence. Though the negotiations. lam quite ready, however, to give to
many of them were very useful charities, and such as he my
noble friend and to the house all the information
was sure the house would wish to continue, yet unless which it is at present in my power to afford. (Hear.)
great care was taken they might be entirely overthrown w
ant the Ambassador of the Emperor of Russia left Con-
and destroyed by the bill. He would therefore propose stuople, it appeared to her Majesty's Government that
that these charities should be omitted ; but he did not it was desirable that there should be a conference of all the
great powers of Europe, in order to endeavour to arrive at
mean that they should be permanently omittecl
because he believed that the Roman Catholics would terms which might put au amicable termination to the
derive great benefit by having a superintending body
differences between Russia and the Sublime Porte. It was
the opinion of Austria that it was not desirable to have
over their charities like that which was established by
a
the bill ; but in order to include them, a separate bill
any such conference while the matter remained in a state
of diplomatic relations ; that it would not be desir-
and separate provisions, which would give rise to a great
deal of discussion, would be required.
The house then went into committee upon the bill. able to have such conference, unless the Emperor
of Ressia, by invading the principalities, should, for a
On clause 10.
Sir R. H. INGLIS moved the following amendment: time at least, put an end to the status quo of Europe
W
—" Provided always, that nothing herein contained
that event occurred, the Government of the Em
shall extend or be construed to apply to any charity peror of Austria, in conformity with its previous declare-
,
during the life of the founder or donor thereof.' tion, expressed its willingness to hold a conference ; and at
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL objected to the
Vienna summoned the representatives of the other great
amendment, and observed that what the hon. gentle-
ewers of Europe to attend, for the purpose of conferring
man required could be easily accomplished by the founder P
or donor introducing a special clause into his deed. upon the affairs of Russia and Turkey. The Minister
Sir F. THESIGER also opposed the amendment, of Russia did not attend, but the Ministers of England,
believing that, if introduced into the bill, it would give France,w and Prussia attended that conference. Certain
ere then agreed on, which, in the opinion of
rise to considerable litigation. terms
After a short discussion, the amendment was with- the representatives of. the four great powers, might
drawn, and the clause agreed to. be accepted with honour by the two Governments of Tur.
On clauses 11 and 12 amendments were proposed by key and Russia. These terms have been assented to by
Captain SCOBELL ; but not meeting the approval of the the Governments of England and France, and, according
lawyers on either side of the house, they were subse-
to our belief, have been transmitted from Vienna to St.
quently withdrawn.
The clauses were then agreed to, as were also, with Petersburgh and to Constantinople. In this state of af.
fairs, I think the house will feel as strongly, if not more
more or less discussion, the clauses up to clause 42.
Clause 43 was withdrawn. strongly than before, that it was quite impossible for me
On clause 44, either to say that it is desirable to have a diussionscussion on
As
Mr. MIALL moved its omission on the ground that these affairs now, or to fix a day for any disc.
it gave no new power or right! to any one, and was, the time for the prorogation of Parliament approaches, her
therefore, unnecessary.
Mr. HADFIELD seconded the motion on the further Majesty's Government will be ready to give every infor-
ground that this clause made distinctions between dif-r matron, consistent with their duty,
.with rest toherthmemal
ferent sects and denominations, and he thought the time Mr. DISRAELI—I wish to inquire whether
had arrived when all such distinctions should be re_ jesty's Ministers are induced to believe that there iis. any
pounced. particular time when answers will be returned by the Go.
Lord J. RUSSELL denied that the principle which vernments of Russia and Constantinople to the terms pro.
the hon. gentleman had enunciated would be furthered by posed ?
the omission of the clause in question, and opposed the Lord J. RUSSELL—I should not like to be responsible
motion. .
On a division the numbers were for naming any particular time. Ido not know how many
days may be required for the consideration of the terms
For the omission of the- clause 39 submitted to the two Governments. I should think the
Against it 7l proposition most probably left Vienna on Sunday last, and
therefore the right hon. gentleman will be able to calcu-
Majority —3'2
The clause was then agreed to, as were also the suc- late for himself the probable lapse of time before answers
will be returned.
ceeding ones up to clause 51. Mr.
T DhleSrite
was AEI,I, after a short interval, rose again and
On clause 52 there arose a discussion, which chiefly said—
There
turned upon the powers proposed to be granted to the noble member foar phrase
n the noble lord's answer to the
commissioners under this bill, with regard to making obscure on this side of Ihe houesew.hich
The
appeared somewhat
commissioners lord said thatt
new schemes for the application of charities. a proposition agreed on at the conference in Vienna had
Mr. HENLEY moved the omission of words in the received the approbation of the Governments of France
clause granting the above powers, which the right hon. and England. I inferred at the time that that proposition
gentleman contended were far more extensive than those had, of course, also received the approbation of the Go-
now vested in the Court of Chancery, or any tribunal vernments of Austria and Prussia; but some apprehen.
other than Parliament itself. sion appears to exist on this point, which it would be de-
The ATTORNEY-GENERA L opposed the amend- sirable for the noble lord to remove.
Lord J. RUSSELL—The proposition was, i fact, an
ment, and thought that the right hon. gentleman had Austrian proposition, though it came originallysa
from the
misapprehended the scope and object of the clause. Government of France, and no doubt the Govern.ment of
Sir F. THESIGER was decidedly in favour of the Prussia likewise assented to it.
amendment, and averse to entrusting any board of corn- DISTRICT LETTER-CARRIERS.
missioners with such extravagant and unprecedented Mr. T. DUNCOMBE referred to his motion
the m
ladter-car.
e some
powers. time ago on the subject of the payment et
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL asserted the power of riers, when the Government promised that the matter
conversion was already exorcised, though in an irregular should have their attention, and the motionwas withdrawn.
Since then no change had been made in the condition of
manner,
Chancery. , through the instrumentality of the Court of ' these men • he therefore wished to know what steps had
had been taken by the Postmaster-General to improve the
After a few further remarks from Mr. HEYWARD and
condition of the district letter-carriers of the metropolis;
Mr. NEWDEGATE,
Lord J. RUSSELL explained that the object of the also, when the long-promised amalgamation of the depart-
ments of district and inland lettercarriers would take
clause was one the house would approve of. It was this, place, the duties of which were becoming daily more closely
where the commissioners found that a charity was being combined.
distributed in a manner which did no good, the whole Mr. WILSON said that with respect to the superinnua.
ease should be brought before Parliament with a view to tion allowance on the sth of July last, the Treasury Benc-
e better disposition of the funds. ' tioned. a proposal made by the Postmaster-General to raise
The amendment was negatived without a division, and the rate of the retiring allowance of the district letter-car-
the clause was agreed to, as were also the succeeding riers to the ordinary rate of superannuation under the
clauses up to 59 inclusive. Superannuation Act, subject to some slight reduction in
consequence of the district carriers not have paid the re-
On clause 60, quired proportion of their salaries to the superannuation
Lord J. RUSSELL said he proposed to insert here fund. With regard to the amalgamation of the two classes
the exemption in favour of the Roman Catholic charities of letter-carriers, that was a subject which involved other
to which he had already referred. His own opinion was changes which were still under connsideration.
that this bill ought to apply to Roman charities ; but, CRIMINAL CODE OF MALTA.
before it could be made to do so there must be an alte- Mr. KINNAIRD inquired of the Under Secretary of
ration in the law relating to superstitious uses in order State for the Colonies, whether there was any objection to
that the Roman Catholic religion and worship might be lay on the table oft the honse so much of the Criminal Code
legalised, so far as charities were concerned. It was too of Malta, transmited to and lying at the
efore her Majesty for approval, as Colonialffice to
the
n late this session to bring in such a measure, and, there- be laid b related-o
to t
*shment to be inflicted for offences against the respec
fore, with the view to legislation on this subject next P,
sue to religion? •
session, he proposed to insert words in this clause, to
Mr. F. EEL could not enter into any engagement upon
exempt Roman Catholic charities from the operation of the subject at present.
this bill. Mr. KINNAIRD hoped the Government would give him
Mr. HADFIELD protested that many charities in an opportunity of bringing the question before the house
this country had no reference to sect or religion, and before the cIoseHACKNEY CARRIAGES.
of the session.
instead of their being called upon to make exemption.;
in favour of any one class of religionists, the committee On the motion of Colonel Srurpour,
_2:etur,rns. "ere o_r-
ought to be considering a law which should place all dered of the number of public carriages, disti.no h
"ii a
charities on the same footing, so far as the law was con- names or designation of each public carriage, whether
omnibus or cab, whether drawn by one, two, or more
cerned. At present, the Mortmain Law was so couipli-
hoes, and that have taken out licenses for the conveyance
rated and uncertain, that it was almost impossible to
of passengers within the metropolis or within the bills of
prepare a charitable trust deed so as to come within the mortality ; the number of any such description of car-
requirements of the law, and he thought these legal riages belonging to each separate proprietor ; the sum
difficulties ought to be immediately removed. paid for eaclicarria,ge, and total amount of the sums paid
Mr. HENLEY put it to the noble lord whether it to or received by the Excise-office in each year, for the
would not be better to reserve this amendment for dis-
lacelienses thereof, during the last three years, up to the
cussion in the bringing up the report. t period to which such return can be made. And of
Lord J. RUSSELL had no objection to this course, the number of complaints and of summonses that have
and the amendment was withdrawn, notice being given been made by persons or parties in any way connected
that it would be renewed in the report in the shape of a with the employment,
.engagement, or use of car-
riagesbpirelficreer-er or employed,
clause.
ity or
b y conveyances
Nvh m made' wi. t hwi
etthhee
rm
ee
mii-
po pl
eoyl
The remaining clauses of the bill were then agreed to.
the convictions and description of penalties inflicted there-
On the question that the preamble be agreed to, upon, whether imprisonment or amount of fines paid in
Sir F. THESIGER congratulated the Government lieu thereof, and and amount of each fine within the last
upon there being now a prospect of passing a Charitable three years (the return to be made up to the latest period.
Trust Bill after a3O years' agitation of the subject. that such return can be rendered).
The preamble was then agreed to, and the house THE DUBLIN HOSPITALS.
resumed. On the motion that the Speaker leave the chair for the
The Chairman reported progress, and the report was
house to go into committee of supply,
ordered to be received on Thursday. . Mr. GROGAN intimated that as his object in giving
NAVAL COAST VOLUNTEERS BILL. notice of a motion for a select committee to be appointed
to inquire into and report upon the expediency of the
This bill as amended was considered, and ordered to
grants made from the public funds to the hospitals in the
be read a third time to-morrow. city of Dublin, and how far the circumstances of these in-
The house rose at four o'clock. stitutions, and their utility as a medical school, required
The house resumed at six o'clock. the continuance of such grants, could not be effectually
Mr. VILLIERS brought up the report of the Public- carried out at this late period of the session, he would des
houses Committee, which was ordered to lie on the table. fer it till next year.
DISPATCHES FROM INDIA.
Mr. WISE asked the President of the Board of Control, THE ROYAL GEOGRAPHICAL SOCIETY.
whether he had any objection to lay upon the table of the Mr. HUME called attention to the memorial pr esented
house a copy or extracts of the dispatch from the Geyer- from the Royal Geographical Society on 13th .May, for
nor-General of India upon which was founded the 29th rooms for the purpose of their institution. There was.
clause in the Government of India Bill, enabling the East scarcely any
knowledge which
mirie
euesetutltien collecting
e and dissemi-
b in the possession of
India Company, with the approval of the Board of Com-
missioners, to increase the European forces in their service everya*
Englishman than the Royal Georaplwueerael Society.
snxieus
They had 14,000 or 15,000 maps, and they
in India from 12,200 to 20,000 men' as well as authorising
the said company to enlist and hays, in pay in Great Bri- that some adequate place should be provided where the
public might have access to them. At present the expenses
taro 4,000 non-commissioned officers and men, instead of
the present limit of 2,000 men? of the society were borne entirely by private subscriptions
Sir C. WOOD said, it would not be convenient to lay which were not sufficient to enable them to provide such
the whole dispatch on the table, but he had no objection accommodation themselves; and what they asked was
that apartments should be allowed them by the Govern-
toens."riigTh
tohnstvhee
rebusgrgdsriyanaperishisteseeocaofsfle tthoethaoce
mieatpy: ananda
give extracts though they would merely contain an ex-
the
pression of the Governor-General's opinion in favour of the where
wthh
ee rpe !Tub
ltoi e
proposition.
possessed,taonrt
tahnadt vaahluaaubliemgaelo
trieoprmuhauteiomn
money
should be made to enable them to provide suitable accom-
modation for that purpose themselves. He made no. motion,
but wished to urge the claim of the society on the. favour-
able consideration of the Government.
noble
strongestfriend
sympathyat theihead
m the o fethhj
thTltis The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied.
with thesociety,
headty:
taken the request contained in their memorial into his
the Government
ovfernthmee
consideration, but he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer)
was not in a condition at present to say what measures
might be adopted. There were many circumstances which
made it difficult in the present session to make the pro-
vision required, but he begged to be allowed to take that
opportunity of acknowledging publicly the merits of the
society, and the claims it had upon the consideration of
the Government for such aid as could be reasonably given
to assist it in carrying on its operations. (Hear, hear.)
ELECTION PETITION COMPROMISES.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE rose, in pursuance of his notice, to
call the attention of-the house to the present defective stltes
of the law for the trial of controverted election petiteon
founded upon the port of the committee appointed .t
reti-
inquire into the withdrawal of the Norwich election ti
onpro.
tion. The house would recollect that the pe h
at the
sented against one of the members for Nor Tom agent,
last election was withdrawn by Mr. Brown, theiTooury
se to in-
and that a committee was appointed by thebs
t result of
quire into the circumstances. He thoughtrty
in
Norwich
that inquiry went to show that the Toryrtpast the Carlton.
had been very ill-used by the Tory Pa Y
-,,,t down to Norwich
It appeared that Colonel Dixon we
t be paid his share of
and coalesced with Lord Douro, Oa
d vvith the noble lord.
the expenses, and fought and fail
the
conservatives of Nor-
, Colonel Dixon undertook to see
u the meanwhile succeeded,
with righted. Lord Douro halt ,
_mee
under
the present
to an illustrious title and seal-
he Horse. No such good for.
Government as Master of t
h osllant colonel, who was not
tune however awaited . , : 1 laugh)—and
rrt ein waiting-0, he
even appointed an theu ere turnr
of the liberal member. Afoul
petitioned against
Tca, appointed to try the petition, Mr.
n,tho
the committee
Brown, lvative agent, withdrew the petition by
an arrangement sielinder which no less than seven seats weree
It was to the last paragraph of the report
compromised.
) fthe committee appointed .
into'
( thi by the house to inquire
stransaction to which he desired to call attention—that
wherein they referre.t to the facilities which at present
existed under the Bth section of the act of 1848 .for °lige,
eating election petitions, and pairing them off one against
another, and suggesting some alteration in the law to pree
vent the continuance of a system which the committees
stated caused treat injustice and expense to innocent pare
ties. The only effectual cure for this system was he thought
to provide that no election petition, when once presented.
should be withdrawn, at all events unless another petitions
were presented, explaining the reasons of such withdrawal.'
and signed by the parties who were the parties to then
original petition, and in that case the petition to be allowed,'
to withdraw should be referred to the officer of the houses
to examine into the motives and grounds of the with.;
drawal, who should report to the house. He also sug's
gested that the money for the recognisances to the amounts
of 1,0001. should be lodged in the Bank of England, which
would afford some security that the petition was bone
and would avoid the tedious legal examination*
which now took place before the examiner of reoognii