The Sun.
London, England, 1853-05-28 00:00:00

papers, and to charge id. instead of ld., and the reason
was that at the time of the imposition of the present stamp
duty an alteration was made with regard to. a privilege
which the Irish newspapers had of returning unused
stamps, that privilege being withdrawn.
Mr. NEWDEGATE—Was the privilege which was
withdrawn enjoyed by Irish newspapers excldsively, or
was it also enjoyed by English papers'
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—I under-
stand it belonged exclusively to the Irish paper&
The motion for the adjournment to Monday was then
agreed to.
INCOME TAX BILL.

The house then went into committee on this bill.
On Clause 3,
Mr. NEWDEGATE was understood to inquire whether
the Chancellor of the Exchequer would object to allow occu-
piers of land to have their land valued by competent per-
sons appointed by the commissioners in case they thought
themselves overcharged.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER had never
had this point stated to him by any one, and he was not
aware that the occupiers of land felt themselves aggrieved
in this respect. He would rather not give a positive an-
swer without inquiry, but he would consider the matter,
and give the hon. gentleman an answer.
Clause 4 was agreed to with amendments.
On clause 5,
Mr. BRIGHT said this clause was of a nature which, he
thought, the house would be generally of opinion was ob-
jectionable. It professed to tell the house and the public
many things which were not contained in it, which would
require that any man who had a chance of discovering
what it meant to be very laborious, but also to have a good
deal of practice in construing acts of Parliament. He (Mr.
Bright) was in favour of the income tax, and disagreed
with the Chancellor of the Exchequer as to its being abo-
lished in 1860. He should prefer its remaining so long as
there was a single indirect tax, and what he proposed was
proposed in good faith towards the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer and the Government, and he proposed it because
he knew what was the feeling now in his own neighbour-
hood; while if the local commissioners were appointed in
the manner he suggested there would be a feeling in favour
of the justice and impartiality of the commissioners which
was impossible under the present system. He did not wish
to move that the chairman report progress, for it was his
desire that this measure should pass speedily; but still he
thought the Chancellor of the Exchequer ought to give an
assurance that if the bill was allowed to pass in its present
shape, he would undertake to give them a consolidated
bill at an early period, and also that he would fairly
consider the subject of the appointment of the local com-
missioners. By this bill there was practically no appeal
to special commissioners if a return was sent in to the
local commissioneas ; and there ought not to be any re-.
striction on appeals to the special commisiioners. He
should not make any motion, but he felt it to be his duty
to appeal strongly and earnestly, but in no feeling of hos-
tility, to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, to explain the
views he held, and to give a pledge that he would effect a
consolidation of the measure, and consider the question of
a better mode of appointments of the local commissioners.
He (Mr. Bright) had brought the subject forward, because
he was anxious to make this measure as little irritating to
the public, and as advantageous to the revenue, as possible.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did not,
question the motives which had induced the hon. gentle-
man to bring forward this subject, but when he had made
his explanation, the hon. gentleman would see that his
critisisms were not well founded, though his object was
rational and open to consideration. The hon. gentleman
was in error if he supposed that this was a supplemental
bill, and that he was precluded from making amendments
on it. This clause revived certain old acts, subject to any
provisions the committee chose to introduce. So far from
the bill precluding the making of amendments, the bulk of
it consisted of amendments • and it was competent to any
one to propose other amendments. The hon. gentleman
said that he ought to introduce a consolidated bill, and to
change the machinery under which tho'tax is levied. The
question of consolidating the bill was to be considered in
two points of view. In the first place, it was for the con-
venience of members and persons out of the house that they
should have a clear comprehension of what was going to
be done ; and in the second place, there must be considered
the functions which the bill had to perfo!lits a ways and
means act for the revenue of the year t; d the time in
which it was nenessary that it should he passed. With re-
gtrd to members of the house. it was for their convenience
that they should see the new enactments standing by them-
selves. If he had introduced a bill with 250 old and 50
new clauses, -what would have been the condition of
gentlemen who had to master it,and he would have been
told that he had brought in a bill with the whole law
instead of with the new enactments, and that they were
so mixed up with old matter that they did not know what
was to be done. The plan Ire had adopted was not only
his own opinion, but was „rounded on authority and
general practice. Besides this iime precluded the intro-
duction of such a bill, if he were to get a bill the functions
of which were to raise a tax to be pahl into the Exchequer
within a certain period. When the Government came into
office in January, they had to consider the principles of the
tax, and all its structure was to be exam:Tied. They had to
take time to do that, and they could not in justice to the
house have delayed the measure for two or three months
longer till a consolidated bill was drawn. They would not
then have called in the Solicitor to the Board of Inland
Revenue to begin to prepare such a bill. The hon. gen-
tleman might perhaps think that the Solicitor of Inland
Revenue could have drawn a consolidated bill iu twenty-
four hours, butpractice and experience was against any such
notion. The hon. gentleman also said that the machinery
of the tax should be changed, and he (the Chancellor of the
Exchequer) must say that his demand was a reasonable one ;
for there was much of the machinery which required con-
sideration, and which had been productive of discontent.
He believed, however, that some discontent was caused by
its not being generally known that there was a power of
referring assessments to special commissioners instead of
local conunissioners. He'admitted that it was open to the
hon. gentleman to urge that amendments should be made
with regard to the local commissioners ; but the hon.
gentleman was not aware of the difficulty and complexity
of the subject. The hon. gentleman said that lists should
be circulated among those who paid income tax last
year, and to allow those who had been assesssed to vote
for the appointment of commissioners. The were many
difficulties in such a plan. One was that neither the
commissioners, nor the State, nor any one else knew
who had paid income tax in the last year. That might
be known in schedule B, but not in schedules C or D
Would the honourable gentleman then have commis-
sioners for each schedule, with separate offices, and double
and treble organisation and machinery. Another difficulty
was that it was a very serious matter to send round a list
to all who had paid income tax last year, as it would tend
to expose to every man's neighbours all particulars relating
to his payment of or exemption from the tax. The hon.
gentleman might say that no one had a right to object to
this publicity, but the principle on which the tax had
always been levied was the observance of secrecy. The
difficulty with regard to the new machinery was the same
as that which applied to the consolidation of the act ;
namely, that if you got the machinery could you go to
work and make assessments. If you dispensed with the
present boards there must be an interval before others
were appointed and the assessment made, and there would
be delay in the levying of the tax ; and as he (the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer) had promised that there should
be a sum of six millions in the exchequer before the sth of
April next, it was only on the supposition that he should
get the law so as to be able to go to work at once, and if
the hon. gentleman insisted on a new bill being introduced
he could not get the six millions by that time. Besides,
the sth July would pass before it came into operation, and
the dividends due then would pass without payment.
With regard to the consolidation of these various acts, he
admitted the desirability; but the difficulty 'was great,
and, though he would hold out the hope, he would make
no pledge.
Mr. BRIGHT was satisfied that any person of ordinary
brains could effect a consolidation of these acts by 48 hours'
labour. With regard to the secresy necessary, it was well
known that at present there was little or no practical
secrecy, the returns made by persons under the income
tax constantly turning up in the most unexpected places ;
and he had not asked that every man's assessment should
be printed, but that there should be such lists as would
suffice for guidance as to voting purposes. The right hon.
gentleman was bound to attempt something in the way of
consolidation by next session. The opinion of the judges
had been given that this was not framed as an act of Par.
liament should be, and it was unquestionably unconstitu-
tional to tax men by acts which they could not com-
prehend.
Mr. HAMILTON had given much attention to this sub-
ject since the house had, in effect, decided on the extension
of the income tax to Ireland ; and he was sure that there
ought to be a special bill for Ireland, the use of words
which were not at all applicable to circumstances in Ire-
land being likely to occasion the greatest confusion and
difficulty. (Hear, hear.) He wished to know whether
landowners in Ireland would be able under this bill to de-
duct the interest on mortgages and lands generally ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER answered

in the affirmative. He could assure the-hon. gentleman
that the Government had considered the difficulty care-
fully, and had come to a conclusion against a separate
system or bill for Ireland.

Mr. J. G. PHILLIMORE expressed a strong objection
with respect to the loose and slovenly way in which this
bill had been drawn up, and pointed out confusions anti
apparent contradictions in several of the clauses. It would
be the easiest thing in the world to frame a consolidated
act.

Sir F. KELLY pointed out that the bill, as it applied to
Ireland, assumed that there were assessed taxes and land
tax in Ireland ; and, therefore, that it was an absurdity.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER answered
that, if so, no harm could be done, since there were no
assessed taxes in Ireland.

Sir D. NORREYS, as an Irishman who would have to
pay the tax, would like to understand the bill.
Colonel DUNNE made a remark to the same effect.

Mr. BLACKETT, taking the English point of view
merely, but admitting the unfairness to Ireland, expressed
his astonishment that the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Glad-
stone) should have missed his opportunity to acquire the
vast popularity with the trading classes which would have
attended a simple effort to remedy the obnoxious ma-
chinery of this bill.
Mr. MICHELL expressed his belief that the clauses re-
lating to Ireland were the most intelligible part of the bill.
If they struck out Ireland altogether and applied the
clauses now relating to Ireland to England they would get
rid of the Commissioners of Stamps and Taxes altogether,
and the Chancellor of the Exchequer would have power to
appoint special commissioners, who would appoint the
local commissioners.
Mr. CAYLEY put the case of an owner of land who oc-
cupied it himself, but who said he had made no profit for
some years, and who submitted that he ought to be as-
sessed in his profit and not on the supposed value of the
land. Would such a case as that be provided for?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied that
a parson in such a positioi would not on such a plea be ex-
cused his poor rates by his fellow parishioners, and he did
not see why be should be excused his tax to the state.
Sir J. PAKINGTON remarked that the 41st clause em-
powered persons who insured their lives to deduct 7cl. in
the pound on the amount of their premium. His con-
struction of that clause was that it applied only to schedules
I) and E.
applicableTi °C
by implication.EthLeL.
sOcßh,e(olufletsh.e EXCHEQUER said it was
stood, to understand i 4. I• Bllrr Totes e d against this mode of legislating
not think it Ns, t was impossible for them, as the clause
that that the clause
he
es
moved that
oualnid what they were enacting. If he did
nnaillteht tphreo
cg
no scsmoTfenpcueb
ofh thbeuhsionleisses:
be postponed. (Hear.)
The CHAIRMAN ~ea-ir postponed.
lion. member to move that it was not competent for any
Lord J. RUSSELL a: a was
be
postponed.
said the h
move the postponement of the el on. gentleman could not
it be negatived, but that .ause. He could move that
would dostro
because the purport of the clause
was
.y the whole bill,
to re-enact all the
lle;;;I:wi theth