The Sun.
London, England, 1853-05-11 00:00:00

LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, MAY 11, 1853.

THE LATE BOARD OF ADMIRALTY.

The committee met yesterday at 11 o'clock.
The first witness called was Admiral Rich, who stated to
the committee that he had been superintendent of the vic-
tualling-yard at Plymouth since February, 1850. He was
appointed by Sir Francis Baring, who gave him no instruc-
tions whatever to abstain from interfering in political mat-
ters. There are about 160 men employed in the yard,
but he could not say how many were voters, but knew many
were. When vacancies occurred, the master-attendant re-
commended the most deserving to fill the vacancies, and he
(Admiral Rich) sometimes made his own remarks upon those
recommendations. He cautioned Mr. Triscott, the store-
keeper, last summer, before the eledion, against interference
in it, having heard that that gentleman had been actively
assisting in the canvass of certain parties, and informed him
that, if continued to interfere in politics, it would be his
(Admiral Rich's) duty to report the circumstances. Mr. Tris-
cott assured him that he had not interfered in politics. The
master-attendant (Mr. Armstrong) never interfered iu politics,
nor had he (Admiral Rich) ever taken part in politics. People
had come to him to propose to him to give him the disposal
of their votes, which he declined, as also their requests for
his advice as to how they should vote.
To Lord Hotham—Was of opinion that preventing the
dockyard people from voting would be a vast improvement,
and had not the slightest doubt that the good of the service
would be advanced by such a proceeding.
To Sir F. Davie—The " submissions" made to the Admi-
ralty were generally adopted. He remembered one instance
to the contrary, about six weeks before the election. A va-
cancy occurred, and a man named Helms had been brought
under his notice as a fit man for the vacancy, and he sent his
name with that of another man, named Parkin, and, contrary
to the ordinary custom, the second name was adopted, and
Parkin appointed to the vacancy. Helms subsequently got
a similar appointment, and the rumour was that Helms got
his appointment by changing his principles from the strong
Whig opinions he had previously held.
Mr. Thos. Lloyd, chief engineer and inspector of machinery
to the navy, stated that he had, upon one occasion, exa-
mined Mr. Wells, the present master smith at Portsmouth,
about September last, and ascertained from him his qualifica-
tions. Wells said he had worked at the Mersey Ironworks,
and also at a ship smithery. Witness was satisfied, from
Wells' answers, that he was competent to fill the situation of
master smith.

The Hon. Captain Dundas was the next witness. He
stated ha was superintendent of Deptford Dockyard and Vic-
tualling-yard. All recommendations for promotion were for-
merly sent to the surveyor, but since the circular of the 19th
of April, 1852, they had been sent direct to the Secretary of
the Admiralty. He never had any occasion to consider that
any recommendation of his had been overlooked by the sur-
veyor's department, and all the transactions with that office
had been perfectly satisfactory. Before the election Mr.
Stafford accompanied Mr. Rolt to the dockyard, and sent to
ask him (Captain Dundas) to join them in their tour through
the yard, which he declined to do. The storekeeper had told
him that Mr. Stafford called him out of his office and stood at
the gate with Mr. Rolt while the men were getting their
tickets, but Mr. Stafford declined to have the men mustered,
saying he only wanted to see how things were going on. Be-
fore the election he received a letter, marked " confidential,"
signed by the Secretary of the Admiralty, stating that the
Government wished to use all its influence in favour of one
candidate. Mr. Rolt's name was mentioned in that letter.
He put that letter into the fire, and returned no answer.
Witness, when appointed by Sir Francis Baring, had been
distinctly instructed to abstain from all political interference.
To Lord Hotham—Considered the circular of September,
1849, was of great importance.
- -

Sir Thomas Herbert, one of the Lords of the Admiralty
under the late Administration, had served upon the south-
east coast of America and China, but had never filled any
civil office before his appointment as Lord of the Admiralty.
Upon his accession to office the medical department of the
navy was especially placed under his charge, and the question
of promotions in the dockyards did not come under his notice.
He was not consulted previous to the issuing of the circular
of the 19th of April, 1852, and heard of it only on the 26th
of April, when the second circular was issued. He did not
attach much importance to the circular of the 19th of April,
as the change it effected was very slight, being only to bring
recommendations for promotion to the notice of the surveyor
through the medium of the Secretary of the Admiralty. He
thought it was desirable that the surveyor should be consulted
upon all promotions, and had never heard any complaints of
the surveyor's department exercising any political influence in
the matter of promotions. He had never heard of the differ-
ences upon the subject of the dockyard promotions, nor the
strong remonstrances of Admiral Parker, until the papers
were moved for in the House of Commons. He did not con-
sider that the circular of 1847 was a dead letter never to be
acted upon, and looked upon it as a move in the right direc-
tion, and he decidedly approved of it. As to the circular of
1849, he considered that of very small importance. Having
heard the evidence of the Duke of Northumberland, who con-
sidered that that circular gave the absolute patronage to the
surveyor, he must say he thought practically it was pretty
much so, the practice being for the superintendents or chief
officers of the yards to recommend three names, of which the
surveyor selected one, and his recommendation was usually
adopted by the Admiralty.
The Chairman (Lord Seymour) called the attention of Sir
Thomas Herbert to a letter of the 24th of May, received by
Captain Richards from the Secretary to the Admiralty, in
which it was said, " Having laid before my Lords your letter
of the 23d."

Sir Thomas Herbert said he never heard of Capt. Richards'
letter until he heard of it in this committee. That letter
might be construed into a censure upon the superintendent,
who, possibly from the wording of it, might be unaware to
whom he was indebted for it, whether to the board or to the
secretary.
To Sir B. Hall—The first time he saw the circular of the
19th of April was when the subject of what had taken place
between Admiral Parker, the surveyor, and 11. Stafford was
brought before the board, and when he saw tho circular of
the 26th of April sent out he believed the general intentions
of the circular of 1847 would be carried out. Admiral Horuby
was one of the Lords of the Admiralty, and had the control
of all matters relating to the discipline of she dockyards, and
ho held a letter from that gallant officer, which he would read
to the committee.

Sir T. Herbert read the letter, but in so low a tone that it
was with exceeding difficulty even the purport could be ga-
thered. The letter stated that during the period of his (Ad-
miral Herlihy's) continuance in office, neither Admiral Parker
nor Sir B. Walker ever consulted with him upon any matters
relative to the dockyard appointments, nor had Sir B. Walker
complained of being annoyed at anything done by Mr. Staf-
ford, nor had any superintendent of any dockyard complained
to him of any irregular interference on the part of Mr. Staf-
ford as to appointments or the internal arrangements of the
dockyards. Sir T. Herbert further stated, that having heard
Captain Dundas say that he had received a letter from the
Secretary to the Admiralty relating, as the committee in-
ferred, to the Greenwich election, he could only remark that
he was not aware of any such communication, nor did he
know anything of the sailing order of the Black Eagle or her
visit to Devonport. Mr. Stafford did not communicate to the
board his intention of visiting Devonport or Portsmouth, nor
was he (Sir T. Herbert) aware of any duties which the Secre-
tary of the Admiralty had to perform in those ports in April
and June last year.
Mr. Armedroz, of the Admiralty, stated that the formal
commencement of every letter in reply to another was,
" Having laid your letter before my Lords," &c., although
tie Board might never have seen the letter at all. The secre-
tary had no power to write anything in his own name, but he
had the discretion of selecting what communications he should
bring before the Board.
Sir T. Herbert explained that he had signed Cotsell's
appointment as master smith at Portsmouth, it having been
regularly brought before him, and he knew nothing of the
case. If it had been in his own department, he should have
considered himself personally responsible, but as it was in
Mr. Stafford's department, he signed his name as a matter of
course.
Mr. John Fincham, master shipwright at Portsmouth, was
next examined. He said that up to 1852, Tayler was the
master smith at that dockyard. Witness had visited Wool-
wich dockyard, and did not think any improvements had
been effected in consequence of the employment of men from
the private trade. He had also visited Chatham, where
Cotsell had brought the smitheries into a superior state. He
thought an examination of all applicants for promotion was
desirable. Ho could see no objection to the promotion of a
man to the head of his department in a yard where he had
filled inferior grades, and in his own person he was an in-
stance, having served In Portsmouth dockyard in several
inferior capacities.
Sir B. Walker was then called, and reminded by the Chair-
man of his statement on the first day, that Mr. Stafford had
alluded to certain pressure upon him by members of the
Government. The committee, having received letters upon
that subject from Lord Derby and Mr. Disraeli, wished to
know whether Sir B. Walker was certain as to the details of
a conversation held so long ago.
Sir B. Walker—l am positive that upon two different occa-
sions Mr. Stafford used these expressions—" There is no use
blinking the question ; I am so pressed by Lord Derby and
the Chancellor of the Exchequer that I cannot help myself."
These expressions were again repeated in the presence of Ad-
miral Parker, during an interview with him upon the subject
of my resignation. As I was most anxious not to bring any-
thing before the committee which I could not prove, a day or
two before the first meeting I requested Admiral Berkeley to
ask Admiral Parker whether he had any objection to my
reading to him that part of my statement referring to what
took place in his presence. I went to Admiral Parker's
room in company with Admiral Berkeley, and read from the
paper I now hold in my hand. (The statement which has
been already published was read.) Admiral Parker said he
recollected the interview, and Admiral Berkeley asked, was
it possible that Mr. Stafford could have been so imprudent as
to use those words? to which Admiral, Parker replied—" He
certainly did."
In reply to questions from Sir B. Hall, the gallant officer
said, at the interviews with Admiral Parker and Mr. Staf-
ford, which he believed was on April 23, Admiral Parker had
his letter tendering his-resignation in his hand, but there was
no further discussion upon that subject beyond his (Sir B.
Walker) saying that, having tendered his resignation, it was
for the Board to decide upon its acceptance. When the in-
terview closed, Mr. Stafford went up to Admiral Parker as if
to take the letter, but he could not say whether he did so or
not.

businessMrP Pennell,
estoerithbeed
mthineutecosurseof
the
Board. The minute was first sent to the précis writer, and
etllh,atoforitheee*
then to the record department. There was an entry of the
Admiralty,
original order in the first book, in which it was stated that
the surveyor had been made acquainted with the circular of
the 19th of April. It appeared there was no entry of the
record department, but that did not prove it had never
reached there, as it might have been withdrawn thence upon
the commencement of the present proceedings, before it had
been indexed.
Sir B. Walker said he had no recollection of receiving any
notice of the circular of April 19 ; and Mr. Eden, an officer in
his department at Somerset-house, stated that he had' searched,
but had been unable to find any such notice.
Mr. Stafford was then invited by the Chairman to explain
certain portions of his former statement, and, firstly, with re-
Lecetatousetdhebeyirtchuelacroonfvitchteioln9tthhaotf
mAepnriwbewre pahichshseedhaa
over the dockyards from political motives, and had quoted the
case of Ridgway as a strong one.
Mr. Stafford repeated that he did not consider the case of
said
an
Ridgway was a violation of the orders of 1847, which di-
rected that all recommendations for promotion should come
from the superintendents of the yards. Captain Richards
had not recommended Ridgway, but the appointment was
Made because he was next in seniority. He was not aware

that Ridgway had applied at all to Sir Frederick Smith,
though, as far as recollection served him the original repre-
sentations on behalf of Ridgway came from Sir F. Smith:
He did not follow up the charge made against Captain
Richards of keepium' Ridgway from promotion on political
grounds, because he thought it better to inquire into the fit-
ness of the man for the situation he asked. In saying that
Captain Richards was oue of the most violent partisans in
Chatham, he meant the most so in the dockyard. His ground
for saying so was, that Chatham was the only dockyard from
which he received communications—mostly anonymous, he
confessed—from personi asking whether the Admiralty would
stand by them if they exercised their votes according to their
own views. Although such evidence might not be of much
value here, it, coupled with the fact that from no other dock-
yard were similar communications made, led him to form the
conclusion he expressed the other day. There was a strong
political feeling on both sides in the yard. He had nothing
tangible to show that Captain Richards was a violent parti-
san, but several respectable people had informed him so. He
could not give their names, as their communications had been
confidential. He did not know when making that charge
against Captain Richards that every superintendent, by
the general order of 1847, was bound ta abstain from all
political interference, although of course ho knew such
a course was most proper. With respect to RidgwaY,
the promotion had been only probationary, and there was
no reason to suppose that that person had applied to Sir F.
Smith for recommendation. Sir F. Smith, being well
acquainted with the yard, might have known the man's
abilities and position, and made the representations on his
behalf without his knowledge. It was very usual in the
House of Commons for applications to be made on behalf of
persons who themselves were quite unconscious of them.
Captain Richards was in error in stating that he met him
(Mr. Stafford) at Sheerness, before the correspondence which
took place in April. That was a mistake, as he was intro-
duced to Captain Richards on the Ist of May. The reason of
the circular of April 19, was to remedy the state of things he
had described. • •

Chairman—What state of things ?

Mr. Stafford—l was informed that political influence was
brought to bear against the. Government to which I belonged.

I have already said I did not consultany Lord of the Ad-
miralty about that circular, nor any member of the Govern-
ment. Ido not know whether you could call some conver-
sation I had with the First Lord a consultation or not, but it
was only snatches of conversation, not a tinuous consulta-
tion, and, moreover, was strictly co iat:--I might-him-
consulted some people upon the principle of the circular, but
I acted for myself, and cannot mention their names, as the
communications were strictly confidential. I take all the
responsibility on myself.
Mr. Stafford, in reply to questions from the Chairman,
went on to say that he did not remember the First Lord (the
Duke of Northumberland) desiring him to give every atten-

ion to the recommendations of the superintendents.

The Chairman then directed Mr. Stafford's attention to a
letter written by him on the 24th of May, to Capt. Richards,
expressing surprise on the part of the Lords of the Admiralty
that that officer should have filled up a vacancy from the
private trade.
Mr. Stafford answered, that without passing any opinion
upon the letter, he would remark that the phraseology had
been altered from the original minute, which did not contain
the words " Having laid before my Lords," &c., they having
been introduced by the writer as the ordinary official form.
He wrote that letter on the 24th of May, without consulting
any of the Lords of the Admiralty, as he considered the
matter to which it related was entirely within his province,
and he thought so still. He knew that in October, 1851,
authority had been given to Capt. Richards to select a person
from a private yard, but he (Mr. Stafford) considered that,
after the lapse of so considerable a period before Capt.
Richards made such appointment, he should have written to
the Admiralty to know their wishes on the subject. The
surprise he felt at the place being filled up according to the
authority granted to Capt. Richards in Octobe; 1851, was
because it happened after the correspondence about Groves
had begun. In the case of Atkinson, who had been promoted
without the recommendation of any officer in the yard, he
could not say much, as it was done during his absence by
Captain Hamilton. In the case of George Rule, promoted to
be workman at the metal mills, he had acted under an impres-
sion, which he still retained, that, according to the regula-
tions of 1847, all appointments to the lowest classes of all
trades in the yards were to be treated as first entries. There
was a desire in every yard to get all the patronage it could,
and that desire caused a great deal of contention.
The Chairman—Then, to avoid these bickerings, would it
not be desirable to have the submission of the surveyor, who
could not be prejudiced in favour of any yard ?
Mr. Stafford—That would not affect first entries.

Mr. Stafford's evidence was terminated for this day by the
announcement that the Speaker was at prayers, and the com-
mittee then adjourned.

NAVAL INTELLIGENCE.

PORTSMOUTH, MAY 10.
The Odin, 16 (paddle), Captain Francis Scott, has bad a
committee of inquiry on board to ascertain the causo of
the break down of her machinery. Adjourned till to-

THE FRENCH EINIPME.

The Pays says :—" It appears certain that the session
of the Legislative Body will be prolonged from the 14th
to the 21st inst. The last days of the. session
.will be
devoted to the discussion of the budget, and of several
important bills, some of which have been presented, and
others of which will be presented immediately.
The report of M. Schneider on the Budget of Receipts
and Expenses for 1854, has just been distributed to the
members of the Legislative Body. The document, con-
sists of two distinct parts, the first setting forth the new
situation which the Senatus-Consultnm of the 25th of
December, 1852, produced for the Legislative Body ;
and the second,- rendering an account of the financial
position 'of the country in its aggregate. The committee
declares the Senatus-Consultum in question a measure of
great importance, since it accords to the Government the
authorisation to transfer from one department to the
other the various credits granted, the only limit
being the total amount voted by the Legislative Body.
As to the financial situation, the committee is opinion
that the budget of 1854 offers all the conditions of a
bond fide equilibrium. It approves of all the saving,
effected in the ministerial departments, and particularly
the diminution in the credits for the army, which more
than makes up for the sums allowed for extraordinary
works. The committee declares that it looks on that
circumstance as a remarkable indication of the policy of
the Government. "It is the most eloquent comment-
ary that can be given," says the report, "on the expres-
sion which has re-echoed through Europe—' The Em-
pire is peace."' A great number of amendments have
been presented on the budget of expenses by members
of the Legislative Body ; and the committee has also
proposed several, and sent them to the Council of State.
Amongst those accepted by the Government is one
which reduces by one million the credits allowed to the
department of public works for ordinary works; another
which gives a saving of 700,000 fr. on the budget of
war; and lastly, one diminishing by 300,000 fr. the sub-
vention according to the Imperial colleges. The total
of the savings accepted by the Council of State is
2,079,000 fr. On the budget of receipts several amend-
ments have been likewise presented.
Yesterday M. Billault informed the Corps Legislatif
that the Emperor had signed a decree prolonging • the
session, which should have closed on the 13th inst., to
the 28th inst. The Assembly then divided on the Jury
Bill, which was adopted by a large majority. The votes
were :—For the bill, 210 ; against it 15. Tne Forest
Law Bill was also adopted by 228 votes against 13.
This bill provides that the statute which prohibits the
cutting down of timber on their lands by the proprietors
without the authority of the Government functionaries,
shall remain in force for another term of three years.
When the post left the Assembly was engaged in a dis-
cussion on the pensions of the civil service.
But little business was transacted at the t ourso yes-
terday in Government Securities, and at the conclusion
of business there was a tendency shown towards a de-
cline in prices. The Three per Cents. for the account,
and the Four-and-a-Half per Cents. for cash, remained
unchanged, but a decline, of 25c. occurred in the Three
per Cents. for cash, and of 15c. in the Four-and-a-Half
per Cents. for the end of the month. A considerable
improvement took place in the Bank of France shares,
which advanced 25f. Closing prices :—For money,
Three per Cents., 81f. 75c. ; Four-and-a-Half per
Cents., 104 f. 10c. For the account, 3 per Cents., 81f.
90c. ; Four-and-a-Half per Cents., 104 f 35e. ; Bank
Stock, 2,725 f. The Mortgage Bank and Societd Mobi-
Here quotations remained unchanged, that of the former
being 885 f., and the latter 947 f. 50c. Railway Securi-
ties also met with but little demand, and sales could
only be effected at a decline ou Monday's quotations of
being the only exception, they having experienced no
change at the conclusion of business.