The Sun.
London, England, 1853-08-17 00:00:00

nothing to say to the Ministers. Ido not blame them be-
cause they have taken np a position to defend the Turkish.
empire. It is a traditionary policy they have followed,
and unless they had public opinion with them, no Govern-
ment could avoid doing so. All I say is, that I have no
doubt they will soon get rid of the difficulties respecting
the Wallachia/1 provinces ; and I congratulate them on
having been as peaceable as the people would allow them
to be. (Cheers.)

Lord PALMERSTON—I cannot allow the speech of the
hon. member who has just sat down to pass without one or
two observations, and I cannot accept the praise which, in
his conclusion, he has given to the conduct of the Govern-
ment on the grounds on which he has been pleased to place
it. Nothing is more painful than to see a man of great
ability labouring under an internal conviction which ho
knows to be contrary to the opinions of his fellow-country-
men, and afraid—l do not wish to use a stronger term—
afraid openly to express it, but cloaking it under every
specious device which the ingenuity
of his practised ora-
tory can afford. The hon. gentleman states that ho agrees
with every one who has spoken before him. He agrees with
everybody at the beginning of his speech, and he ends by
differing from them all on every point. (Hear, hoar.) The
lion. member began by assuming it as a very proper maxim
that we ought to maintain the independence of Turkey,
and to prevent Russia from taking possession of her pro-
vinces; but, in the course of his speech, he used every ar-
gument his ingenuity could urge to show that Turkey was
not worth defending. (Cheers.) If the hon. gentleman
had stood forward as the avowed advocate of the aggressive
and ambitious policy of Russia—if ho had stood forward as
the defender of that policy which he pretends to denounce
and condemn—l do not think, in the present state of feel-
ing of the house and the country, he could have dared to
pursue a course more extenuating, and more calculated to
assist that policy, than ho has done. (Hear, hear.) I
never heard a speech so full of self-contradictions. At one
moment Russia was—he did not tell us, as he once told
the country, that Russia could be crumpled up like a sheet
of brown paper—but he told us that Russia was weak, that
she was incapable of resisting any serious effort of this
country ; and in the next moment he tells us that war with
Russia would ho fraught with infallible ruin to England.
How does he reconcile these two statements? At one time
he tells us that Russia is a barbarous power, scattered in her
territories and weak in her internal administration ; then
he launches out in praise of St. Petersburg, and because St.
Petersburg is a finer city than Constantinople, therefore
Russia must possess both. (Laughter and cheers.) The
hon. gentleman is a Free-trader ; in that capacity he made
the tour of Europe, and being received with that courtesy
and civility which his personal qualities so well entitled
him to, he fancied that he had persuaded all the powers in
Europe to abandon their former systems in favour of free
trade. The hon. gentleman says that the efforts of this
; country in favour of unrestricted tariffs have signally failed.
I should like to know what was the result of his European
tour. But, sir, wo never made wars for tariffs; oar wars
were waged for the liberties of Europe, and not for the
tariffs of commerce ; we waged war for the liberties and
independence of nations, and for the balance of power,
which the hon. gentleman sneers at, because he does not
seem to understand it —(laughter)---but which all well-in-
' formed persons feel to be essential to the liberty and well-
, being of mankind. The hon. gentleman, with all his free-
trade partialities—and no man has been more assiduous or
more earnest in the enforcement of that principle than he
has been—l should be the last to withhold from him any
tribute of admiration for his great services in this respect—
; but he entirely forgot those principles when he drew a com-
parison between the commercial systems of Russia and
Turkey. Does he not know—and if ho does know, why
does he attempt to withdraw the attention of the public
from the fact—that the commercial system of Russia is
strictly prohibitory, and that the commercial system of
Turkey is as liberal as that of any country with which we
' have commercial relations ? He says that it is immaterial,
in a commercial point of view, whether the Turkish empire
belongs to Russia or not, for we had no commerce in the
Black Sea till Russia got possession of the Crimea. Sir, I
never heard an argument that was loss relevant. It is not
true that the commerce of Turkey is immaterial to this
country. It is very material. Turkey has many natural
products that are essential to our mannfactures, and her
mineral and natural resources are every year becoming more
valuable. Ah, but, says the honourable member, you are
under a deception—you look to the returns which are on
the table of the house, and which are made out as if all
the exports went to Turkey, whereas the fact is they all.
go through Turkey. Now I ask the honourable gentle-
man, who thinks that these exports go through Turkey,
whether they would be allowed to go through Russia?
(Cheers.) Whether Turkey consumes them herself, or whe-
ther she acts as the channel through which they pass, still
it is equally to the advantage of our commerce, and it be-
comes, therefore, of great importance to England that
Turkey should remain an independent state. The hon.
gentleman is a great advocate of the principle of non-inter-
ference ; and he has frequently said, Do not you inter-
meddle in the affairs of other nations ; especially do not
, dictate to them what form of government they are to
adopt." But what is the matter that he has now especially
committed to the deliberation of the Governmett and to
the future consideration of Parliament? Why it is—what
are we to do with the Turkish empire ? how are we to dis-
pose of the destinies of the Mahomedans, the Greeks, and
the other races that inhabit it ? He taunts us by telling
us, " You are patching up a rickety building ; you yield
to the ignoble and vulgar prejudices which have been
handed down to you by tradition ; but the fabric cannot
last—it will fall to pieces—the Sultan must be expelled
from Europe—the Sultan, the army, and the two or three
millions of Turks who are now encamped in it ; it is high
time that England were considering how she will dispose
of those territories, when relieved from the blighting pre-
sence of the Moslem." Strange doctrine this, from a per-
son who maintains the necessity of leaving foreign corm-
; tries to decide on their own form of government. (Cheers.)
But I do not admit that the Turkish empire is inthat state
of decay which he represents it to be in, or that the
maintenance of the independence of Turkey is au object
which cannot bo successfully attained. The honourable
, gentleman wholly mispresents the state of Turkey during
the last 30 years. I assert, without fear of contradiction
from any man who knows the subject, that Turkey, far
from going backward during the last 30 years, has made
greater improvement than most other countries during
the same time. Compare Turkey now with what she
Was in the reign of Sultan Mahmond—take either her
system of government or the prosperity of her inhabit-
ants—take her army—take her navy—take her admi-
nistration of justice—take the prosperity of her agriculture
—take her improvements in such manufactures as she has
—take her commercial system—take her religious tolera-
tion—l say, that in all these respects Turkey has made
immense progress during the period which I have men-
tioned. So far from going along with the hon. gentleman
in that. sort of political slang—(cheers)—in which it is the
fashion of certain parties to denounce Turkey—so far from
talking of her as a dead body, or as one about to expire,
and which cannot be kept alive, I am convinced that if we
can only keep out those who wish to got in—(loud cheers)
—if we leave those who are in to deal with her affairs ac-
cording to the way they are now dealing with them—l
venture to say that, so far as the seeds of internal dissolu-
tion are concerned, there is not a country with which
Turkey will not bear a favourable comparison, and that
she is likely to go on and to improve, if we can only keep
the hands of other people off her. urkey, it must be re-
membered, has no Poland and no Circassia, to distract her.
(Cheers.) lam bound to say that, if ever I heard a speech
which was likely to discourage the Government in the
course of policy which they have been pursuing—if ever I
heard a speech which was likely to damp the zeal of the
country in support of the Government, it is the speech of
the honourable gentleman. lam happy to say it is the
only speech of the kind we have heard to-night, and I only
trust it will not mislead persons beyond the limits of this
country as it might mislead them. (Cheers.) I hope the
language we have heard will not excite abroad a feeling
which would tend to mar the efforts of the Government to
settle this question satisfactorily. I trust, rather, that the
sentiments and feelings which the general tone of the
discussion of this evening has shown will prove to the
whole world what are the sentiments of the British Parlia-
ment, and what is the fixed determination of the British
nation—(cheers)—and that though there may be persons
who wish to see Russia extended to Turkey, yet that is
not the wish of the British nation, and that the Govern-
ment and the Parliament are determined to maintain the
independence of a country which we think it is important
should be maintained in its independence both political
and commercial. (Cheers.) We do not mean to go with
the hon. gentleman into a rearrangement of the Turkish
empire; we do not attempt to dictate to barbarians, or
Slaves, or Greeks, or Mussulmaus, who shall be the go-
vernors, or what shall be their form of government. It has
been the policy of her Majesty's Government to give such
advice to the Turkish Government, with a view to the in-
ternal improvement of that country, as, while it may on
the one hand add to the strength of the Turkish empire,
may, on the other hand contribute to the happiness and
prosperity of the people under the rule of the Sultan.
(Hear.) lam glad to say that those endeavours have been
attended with most beneficial consequences, and that
wherever our consular arrangements have been extended in
the Turkish empire we have seen tranquillity increased,
justice better administered, oppression cease, and those
benefits conferred which it must be the anxious object of
the English Government to promote in every country where
its advice may be considered worthy of attention. (Hear.)
I am convinced that if that system be pursued, and if
England, united with France, shall say that Turkey shall
not be molested by any other power, their dictum, will be
enforced. I am satisfied that Turkey has within itself
the elements of life and prosperity, and I believe that the
course adopted by her Majesty's Government is a sound
policy, deserving the approbation of the country, and
which it will be the duty of every British Government to
pursue. (Cheers.)
Mr. H. D. SEYMOUR thought it would bo seen from
this debate that the spirit of the British people was not
dormant, but that they were prepared to support those
Ministers who took an active part in repressing wanton
aggression. He regretted that the moral influence of this
country had been very much weakened by our conduct in
the East, for he thought we had taken exactly the con-
trary course to that adopted by the Romans ; we had at-
tacked the weak on the simplest grounds ; for instance,
we had annexed Burmah because a petty officer was kept
waiting for half an hour in the sun ; 'while, on the other
hand, we forbore from any interference with powerful na-
tions which had committed the most wanton aggressions.
As he understood, in the memorandum which had been
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lowed which was conducive to the honour of this country.
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The motion that the house at its rising do adjourn until
Friday was then agreed to.
HACKNEY-CARRIAGES DUTIES BILL.
This bill was brought in by Mr. WILSON, in accordance
with a statement made by him in a preceding part of the
sitting, wont through the several preliminary stages, and
was read a third time and passed.
On themotion of Mr. E. EGERTON, copies were ordered
of any reemorialA addressed from time to time to successive
Postmasters-General by the inhabitants of the towns of
Stoke-upon-Trent, Macclesfield, and Congleton, on the sub-
ject of the postal arrangements of those districts, with the
dates of such memorials ; and of any replies to the memo-
rials, and of any instructions issued to the Post-office autho-
rities in relation to the further postal accommodation of
those districts.

Mr. SOTHERON moved an address to the Crown for a