The Sun.
London, England, 1853-06-28 00:00:00

to he First Lord of the Admiralty, he would not have dared
to deviate from them in the slightest respect, much less
to commence a war. (Hear.) Owing, however, to the
anomalous system existing in India, Commodore Lambert
felt at liberty to act on his owa responsibility; and hence
the Burmese war. (Hear.) Why had not this blot
been hit upon by the framers of the present bill?
(Hear, hear.) Could there be a stronger proof of
the undue precipitancy with which the Government
measure had been introduced than this, that it left
the great defect which he had pointed out—a defect
leading to results of immense gravity—uncured? (Hear,
hear.) The Government could not plead ignorance—they
could not allege that their attention had not been directed
to the matter. On the 25th of March Lord Brougham re-
ferred to the subject in the House of Lords, and on that
occasion Lord Broughton, who had just left office, stated
that he had received an official communication from Lord
Dalhousie relative to the anomalous character of tho_ re-
lations subsisting between the Governor-General and the.
Queen's commanders, and expressing a hope that the eveil
.
would be corrected in the forthcoming Charter
rlltutt
(Hear.) Now, however, the bill was introduced wia 0 _
any notice of the subject. (Hear.) The financialnrtt f
the question deeply affected the interests of this
es of India,
If any breach should be made in the a
England must step in to repair it. We hadn. finances of
so three times in the course of the century, and we
should do so again, if it were only for a point of honour.
The hon. member for Guildford, referring to the finances
of India, on Friday night, adopted a tone which was
by no means justified by the circumstances of the •case.
The hon. gentleman twitted tho member for Manches-
ter and those who acted with him on this question with
having said that the debt of India had increased up-
wards of 20,000,0001. since the date of the last charter.
Tho hon. member for Manchester was justified in his
statement by the evidence of Mr. Melville before the
Lords' committee, for that gentleman declared that the
debt contracted since the last charter amounted to up-
wards of 20,000,0001. In passing, he must observe that it
was extremely difficult to arrive at any undisputed fact in
connection with Indian affairs. Mr. Prinsop differed from
the hon. member for Guildford; the hon. member for Guild-
ford differed widely from the hon. baronet the member
for Honiton ; they all differed from Mr. Melville, and this
gentleman, in his evidence, occasionally differed from the
papers to which he had affixed his signature. The hon.
baronet the member for Honiton stated the deficiency at
15,344,000/. ; but he had not taken into the account, as he
was bound to do, the sum realised by the commercial assets
of the company. Three or four years subsequently to the
renewal of the charter in 1833, the company's assets, con-
sisting of ships, stock, &c., were sold, and realised
12,661,0001. What people wanted, in taking stock, was
to know how much richer or poorer they were as compared
with the last time of striking the balance, and yet these
gentlemen kept out of view a sum of upwards of 12,000,0001.
which they had consumed, exhausted, and spent, and they
said that there was only a deficiency of 15,344,000/., when,
in fact, thare was a deficiency of 28,000,0001., as compared
with the former period. (Hear, hear.) The hon. member
for Guildford shook his head, but he (Mr. Cobden) ap-
pealed to the house whether those who were intrusted with
the affairs of the East India Company, and who could not
take stock in a way to satisfy any commissioner of bank-
ruptcy in the case of the humblest retail trader, were en-
titled to manage the vast concerrs with which they were
intrusted ? (Hear, hear.) The amount then of defalcation
in the last 20 or 19 years had been 28,000,0001., and if
things were to go on in the same way for the next 20 years
they would have a debt very nearly approaching
100,000,0001. (Hear, hear.) But the worst part of the
case was that whereas in former instances, when this ques-
tion had been discussed, there was something very bad in-
deed in the present and the past, yet the house was always
told that there was something in the future to be appealed
to which would compensate for all previous calamities ;
but now it was a remarkable circumstance that, while
there was nothing satisfactory in the past, still less
was there anything satisfactory in the future. (Hear,
hear.) The hon. member for Honiton had told the
house that, with respect to one essential item of Indian
revenue—that of opium—he considered it in peril. That
hon. gentleman did not seem to see how he was changing
his tone and assuming two characters in the course of his
speech, when dealing with the future and the past. The
hon. gentleman, in answering in an indignant tone the re-
marks of the hon. member for Manchester, said with the
view of showing that the " constitution had worked well,"
that—" The gross revenue had increased nearly 9,000,0001.,
yet many taxes had been entirely abolished and others re-
duced. Was it not astounding, when the Indian revenue
had increased to such an amount, to hear declamation
about the misery, the destitution, and the poverty of the
country? The debt showed an increase of 15,344,0001.,
but what was this compared with the increase which he
had shown to have taken place in the revenue? The re-
venue had increased in an infinitely greater proportion, so
that the increase of the debt was perfectly immaterial."
Now, what would a person think of a steward who came
before him with an account of the condition of his estate,
and told him that the debt had increased so much, but, as
the rents had increased so much more, it did not signify
how the debt had increased ? Yet the steward might have
said, that he had spent the money in improving the estate,
in erectinc, buildings, and making roads. The directors of
the India Company, however, did not tell the house that
they, had increased irrigation or the facilities of com-
munication in India. All this money had been wasted,
and was gone, and the people had no compensation for it.
(Hear, hear.) The hon. member for Honiton argued that
it was of no consequence how the India Company got into
debt, so long as they had increased the revenue 30 per cent.
Was it, then, to such financiers that the fate of India and
of England—for the interests of both were connected—was
to be intrusted ? If the hon. member for Honiton and his
colleagues in the India direction were to have another lease
of the management of India, on the plea that they had
brought the Bnances of India into such a state that it was
not desirable that Parliament should assume the manage-
ment of the country for itself, would not that be an induce-
ment for them, when the question next came under consi-
deration, to show that the state of Indian finance was oven
much worse than it was at present, and that the debt and
embarrassments of the people of India had been consider-
ably added to ? (Hoar, hear.) After the experience of
the past, would Parliament allow this system to go on, or
would it not grapple with the question at once ? (Hear,
hear.) The hon. member for Guildford, in the course of
his remarks, took the hon. member for Manchester to task
on the subject of the Punjab and its expenses. The hon.
member stated, in the jaunty style to which he had al-
luded, that the acquisition of the Punjab had not increased
our expenses, because the troops there had been pushed
from the frontier, and, therefore, constituted no addition
to our expenditure. To aid the judgment of the hon.
member for Guildford on this point, he would give him
the following figures:—ln 1835 the number of troops,
European and native, in India, was 184,700, and .in 1851,
when the last return was made, 289,500. Consequently,
there had been an increase of upwards of 100,000 since
1835. In that time the European force had been increased
from 30,800 to 49,000, and he contended that an increase
of troops had been occasioned by the acquisition of the
Punjab. Now, if he could treat this question as many
persons did—if could believe that the East India Com-
pany was a reality, and that England could trade with
India without being under any responsibility for the future
good government or the finances of India, he should not be
inclined to disturb the proposed arrangement ; but he had
an impression that they could not leave a more perilous in-
heritance to their children than this constant increase of
Indian embarrassment. (Hear, hear.) The English race
could never become indigenous in India, and that empire
must be governed by a succession of transitory visitors,
and he did not believe it would be to the interest of the
English people to govern permanently 1C0,000,000 of po-
pulation so many miles distant. The mass of the people
had no interest with reference to India, except in honest
trade, for they could not share in the patronage if it were
worth anything. Therefore, if it could be shown that the
India Company was a reality, he should not be a party to
withdraw from it their vast and responsible trust, and place
it in the hands of the Minister of the Crown. But when he
saw that that vast territory of India was now being go-
verned under a fiction—that the company really was, as its
most faithful and able servants had declared it to be, a
sham—he did not wish that the people of this country
should delude themselves any more by the idea that they
could escape responsibility by putting the government of
India behind a screen and fancying they themselves were
not responsible. (Hear, hear.) On this account he desired
to look the question fairly in the face, and let the people
know the difficrlties and dangers which beset it. They
might, if they chose, pass the matter over for the present ;
but all experience showed that the question came back
every time with increased liabilities and responsibilities.
(Hear, hear.) Since the last charter more territory had
been acquired by conquest than in the same period before,
and the debt had been constantly increasing in proportion
to the increase of territory. They had annexed Sattara,
and their own blue books recorded the fact that that was
governed at a loss; and the same was the case with Scindo
and the Punjab. Where was all this to end ? It tended
to cause a drain on the resources of the older and more
fertile province of Bengal to meet the deficiency caused
by these new acquisitions. They were now going to annex
Pegu. Let him not be told that this annexation would
be any benefit. Lord Dalhousie had said, over and over
again, that he looked on the annexation of Pegu as an
evil second only to war itself, and that if we were obliged
to annex Burinah, then he might say farewell to all im-
provement in the Indian finances. (Hear, hear.) The
hon. gentleman concluded by expressing his intention to
vote for the amendment, with the view of deferring the
consideration of the question as to the permanent govern-
ment of India for two years.
Sir J. GRAHAM said—l have long given attention to
the subject now under consideration, and it so happened
that when on the last occasion the renewal of the charter
for 20 years was conceded by Parliament, I had the honour
to bo associated with the gentlemen who sat as a committee
to consider the principles of the scheme of Government.
Lord Grey being at the head of the Administration, it so
happened that on that committee I was associated in pre-
paring that measure with Lord Lansdowne, Sir James
M'lntosh, and my right hon. friend the member for Edin-
burgh, whose voice I, in common with the house, rejoice
to hear again—(hear, hear)—and whatever may be the
merits of the measure prepared by the committee to which
I have alluded, it was adopted by the united voice of many
of the most distinguished members of the Administration
of which I have now the honour to be a member. Ido not
conceive it possible a more grave, more difficult, or more
important question can be discussed in any Legislature.
(Hear, hear.) Its importance is not to be exaggerated, and
I am happy to observe that, although there is much differ-
ence of opinion on this subject, there has not up to the
Present moment, been the slightest factious or party feel-
ing displayed during its discussion. (Hear, hear.) The
gravity of the matter is far too great for any such motives
enter
to into its consideration. (Hear, hear.) For good
or for evil, the question is, shall we, as a deliberative as-
sembly, provide for the Ma, intenance—, I was about to say
the preservation of theh Crown of England—of one of the
brightest jewels attached edwo to the realms of this empire
(Cheers.) It has
pre-eminent talent
i n a series of years, and it aIY men of
world be. a sad disgrace' to this
country if, by any erroneous or
Wrested mlitakoll policy, that jewel
should be suddenly
from us- (Rear, hear. We
connected are now discussing a question intimately . with
the safety and the maintenance of our empire
ia. I
have said the matter is important, but it is alai:). Ina
diffi-
cult. Think of leg,islating for a peopleldainnstaennt,lOwn=hosemikys
from the seat of Governmenthowsehofse
lan-
guage, whose habits, and
known to the vast majority of thiseehionif.sse tare imperfect)And yet you
are called upon, the British Parliament is now call upon
to provide a constitutionts.tbypewohpilcehsthhalle habpopiporeoeviseLaidelft-oh-re.
good government of . h
all
(Hear, hear.) That is in itself difficult, and though
our honest prejudices are naturally stronc, in favour of
free government, yet from the nature oethis question
it
,
we are about to maintain despotic Government, for