The Sun.
London, England, 1853-04-21 00:00:00

PUBLIC HOUSES (SCOTLAND) BILL.

The house then went into committee on this bill, Mr.
Bouverie in the chair.
0a the first clause being proposed,
Sir F. H. DAVIE moved the insertion of an amend-
ment for the purpose of preserving the life interest of
grocers in the sale of spirits, on the ground that some
protection should be afforded to those who had invested
their capital in business in expectation that they would
be allowed to deal in spirits.
Mr. F. MACKENZIE considered that grocers could
not have a vested interest in the sale of spirits in Scot-
land, as their licenses had to be renewed every year.
His object was to put an end to a practice which was
productive of the greatest mischief in Scotland ; he
alluded to persons who went to shops to purchase small
groceries, spending their small balances of coppers, or
the discount they received, in whiskey. Tho principle
of the bill was the separation of grocers from dealers in
whiskey, and to this the amendment of the honourable
gentleman was directly opposed. He considered that
combining grocers and victualling shops was the cause
of the chief evils which existed in Scotland in regard to
drunkenness.
Mr. JOHN MACGREGOR supported the amend-
ment, and protested against the principle of the bill,
which he did not think would have the effect of remedying
the evils of drunkenness which he grieved to say existed
to a great extent in the country.
Mr. KWART said every Scotch member .must be
anxious to remove from their country the dreadful stigma
which now rested upon it, but he had very great doubts
of the government success of Legislation upon such
matters, for it was contrary to the principle of freedom
of trade.
Mr. C. BRUCE, considering that the main cause of
drunkenness in Scotland was to be attributed to the
facility of selling spirits over the counter in grocer's
shops, he would vote against the amendment, because if
it were agreed to, it would defeat the real object of the
bill.

Mr. HUME suggested that the bill should be post-
pond in order that an inquiry might be made by select
committee into the licensing system in Scotland, similar
to that which was about to take place on the same sub-
ject in England.
Mr. F. MACKENZIE said a select committee was
appointed many years ago on the Scotch licensing sys-
tem. It was composed of men of all parties who were
well acquainted with Scotland, and the present bill had
boerrfounded on their report. He could not assent to
the suggestion of the hon. member.
Mr. S. WORTLEY hoped the house would not con-
sent to any postponement of the bill. He knew that
intemperance in Scotland was greatly on the increase,
and it was absolutely necessary that some remedy should
be immediately applied.
Mr. COWAN opposed the amendment, but admitted
that in remote villages and towns, where there were no
public-horses, grocers might be allowed to sell spirits.
He would have no objection to the amendment if it were
limited to that object.

Mr. Craufurd, Mr. Dunlop, and Mr. Fergus sup-
ported the clause as it stood.
The LORD ADVOCATE did not think it was fair to
task for the postponement of the bill at this stage of its
progress. The subject matter of the bill was a crying
evil, almost great enough to overshadow almost every
other in Scotland, and he would gladly have seen a more
efficient remedy than that provided by this bill. He
believed, however, that it would tend to remove one
very great and injurious temptation to the lower classes.
Be would not enter into the causes of drunkenness in
Scotland, but he met its at every step he took in his ca
pacity in that country, and it was impossible to conceal
from himself that it was on the increase. He could not,
tinder these circumstances, refuse to give his assent to
the clause.
Mr. L. HEYWORTH gave his hearty concurrence
to the bill, and only regretted that it had not gone
further.

After a few words from Mr. STAPLETON,
Mr. HUME thought that nothing effectual could be
done except by going to the
root
of the evil,
and by extirpating intemperate habits from domes-
tic circles
wherect young persons were contaminated
by the
exv
of their parents. So far from
objecting to take
he was ready any steps to diminish drunken-
ness,s
to introduce a Maine law for prohibit-
ing the sale of pirituous liquors in England and
Scotland. (Laughter.) What he intended to say was,
that the house was deluding itself in thinking that the
bill was a remedy when it
After some discussion, in not. m „,,,
ELLIOT, and Mr. DUNCA:two which ...-U-REGOR, .
-1-'t wish to be under-
' Mr. DRITMMOND said aid'
be supposed to
Btood as saying anything vihpircoll'pdeight
called the desecra-
tion or tolerate what was
tion of the Sunday, but he must say that
very great causes
tious reverence which was paid toy thesupersti-
tious
the lost caste
the Lord's Day '-
Scotland was in his opinion one of the
People
of drunkenness in that country.
in respectable religious assemblies if
eeep almost to take a walk on the Sunday?' CeN:iree,,,
of "Oh, oh.") He should be very sorry to pro-
ceed to give instances which had occurred within
iris own knowledge. He believed he was speaking in
the presence of many gentlemen who knew the truth of
what he said. (Hear, hear.) If they restrained the
people from those ordinary recreations which they, in
js opinion, were religiously entitled to, they
. would
force them to resort to their only other enjoyment,
which vvas perpetual drunkenness. (Hear.) He spoke
from authority when he said that, in the town of Glas-
gow alone, 30,000
.person? every Saturday night
and laid by in. a
steeped themselves in whisky,
perfect state of insensibility until Monday morning.
ow was tbis to be corrected I Certainly not by the

Legislature, but by the common sense of the higher
classes putting no, faith in these absurd superstitions,
and by giving an example of common sense to the people,
who would readily follow them, and by finding some
better way of managing their Sunday than tithing anise
and cuninun,, and forgetting matters of law. (Hear.)
Mr. A. HASTIE agreed that Scotchmen consumed a
great deal of Whisky; but they were not much worse in
that respect than the people of many towns in England.
He did not think the bill -would do much good, but in
deference to the feelings' of the people in Scotland, he

wouldsr lag vFe his assent.A viE
said
as
the opinion of the house was
against him, be, would not put it to the trouble of a
division. •
The amendment was then withdrawn, and the clause
with some verbal alterations was agreed to.
Clauses 2,3, 4, and 5 were agreed to. Clauses 6,7,
and 8 were postponed. Clauses 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14,
15. 16, 17, and 18 were agreed to.
In schedule A,
Mr. MACKENZIE then moved a clause, by which
hotels were prohibited from selling spirits off their pre-
mises on Sundays, and all other public•houses should be
closed altogether on Sundays.
Mr. HUME said he had no objection to try the es-
periment, although he doubted whether it would succeed.
Sir J. ANDERSON thought that the claims of public-
houses on Sundays would be acceptable to all classes in
Scotland.
Mr. COWAN supported the clause ; which was agreed
to.

Mr. HASTIE moved a clause giving a magistrate in
Parliamentary boroughs the same powers as those pos-
sessed by magistrates in Royal boroughs.
Mr. F. MACKENZIE opposed the clause.
The committee then divided, and the numbers were—
For the clause 93
Against it
81
Majority for the clause
The remaining clauses were then agreed to, and the
house resumed.
Sir T2TROLLOPE reported from the general corn-
Mittee of elections that they had nominated the commit-
tees to try and determine the Berwick-on-Tweed and
Hereford petitions.
'"\ MAYO ELECTION.

Lord H. VANE reported from the Mayo election
committee that G. H. Moore, Esq., and G. G. 0.
Higgins, Esq., were duly, elected, and that it appeared
from the evidence given that there had been great abuse
of the spiritual influence on the part of the great body of
the Roman Catholic priesthood at the last election.