The Sun.
London, England, 1854-12-22 00:00:00

SAYINGS-BANK FUNDS.

The statement of the Chancellor of the Exchequer on
Thursday night, on moving a resolution for a change in
the present system for dealing with the funds of savings-
banks, caused the English funds to open yesterday at a
decline. There is reason to believe, however, that no
ground exists for this adverse movement, and that it origi-
nated in an erroneous impression that the contemplated
measure is intended to give the Government increased
power to sell or otherwise deal at pleasure with the
savings-bank stock now standing in the names of the
commissioners, and which amounts to a total of about
33,000,000 L. So far from this being probable, the pur-
port of the bill in quarters likely to be well informed is
understood to be, that about two-thirds, or 22,000,000/.,
of the savings-bank stocks now held shall be abso-
lutely cancelled, and that in place of that amount a Go-
vernment money debt shall be created, bearing the same
rate of interest (3 ,
per cent.), and for which half-yearly
warrants shall be issued to the commissioners, in the same
manner as dividend warrants have been issued to them
heretofore. The process, therefore, will merely be to
change the form of the debt from an inscription in the
Bank of England books to an inscription in the Treasury
books ; and one of the advantages to be gained is, that
the liability of the Government to the savings bank de-
positors will thenceforth assume its true form. At this
moment the amount of stock held by the commis-
sioners on account of the savings banks does not
represent the actual liability f the
co ountry by nearly
3,000,000/., and an apparent deficiency, which has
an objectionable look in such matters, has therefore
always to be estimated. This deficiency has ori-
ginated in the fact that the Government hold them-
selves bound to pay all deposits in full, whatever
may be the fluctuations from time to time in the value
of the securities in which those deposits have been in-
vested. They are therefore liable, whenever the funds
are low, to sustain all the consequences of the deprecia-
tion, and, as the deposits always increase when, in con-
sequence of money being abundant, the funds are high,
and as invariably diminish in times of pressure, the Go-
vernment purchases and sales of stock are necessarily, in
a majority of instances, made at the most unfavourable
moment. By avoiding any fresh investments of future
receipts, and holding them as they would be held by a
banker, the Treasury will prevent all recurrence of the
mischief, while by retaining one-third of the deposits in
their present form of stock the means will exist, as usual,
of meeting by sales any excess of withdrawals over de-
posits that may meanwhile have to be met.—Times'
City Article.

SCOTCH LEGAL APPOINTMENTS.-Mr. Craufurd, the
present Solicitor-General, will be appointed to the va-
cant seat upon the bench. There being at present an
Earl of Crawford thero would be inconvenience in his
prefixing " Lord" to his name, and be will
.therefore
take'his seat as Lord Ardmillan. Mr. Mackenzie, the
Sheriff of Ross, obtains, with the full satisfaction of
the profession, the gown of Solicitor-General.—Edin-
burgh Witness.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE Oil' LOli.D6--( YESTERDAY.)
THE MILITIA BILL.
Tho Duke of NEWCASTLE, on rising to move the
second reading of the Militia Bill, and that the standing
orders be suspended, in order to allow of its being passed
through committee, said—Though in the course of the
discussion on the bill now in the House of Commons
(the Foreign Enlistment Bill), the bill of which I now
move the second reading has been not only repeatedly
referred to, but discussed at sorn,3 length, your lordships
will naturally expect some observations from me in ex-
planation of its objects. During our present short sit-
ting both sides of the house have concurred in the neces-
sity for establishing a reserve for the forces serving
under Lord Ra,glan, in some place or places nearer than
the shores of this country, and so distant from the seat
of war. I app.ehend that it is not only desirable that
we should have in reserve men such as we are about to
establish at Malta, that is, the additional four companies
to each of the regiments on active service, but that a
further reserve should be created in the shape of entire
battalions not now employed. Your lordships are aware
that though the army of this country consists of a hun-
dred regiments, a great proportion of them are employed
in the colonies and in the Indian service ; and although
those which were serving in the colonies have been
reduced, as well as those in India, a great pro-
portion of the army reserves remain at their former
amount. Under these circumstances, the Government
think it of great importance that they should be enabled
to send for ward to the seat of war those regiments which
at present constitute the important garrison of Malta,
the lonian Islands, and Gibraltar. It is for this purpose
the present bill has been introduced. It has been carefully
worded, and that is its object. The accommodation in
the barracks and other buildings in Malta will be em-
ployed for the reserve of the depots of regiments serv-
ing in the Crimea ; therefore, so far as Malta is con-
cerned, beyond a single regiment no service there will
be required. In Gibraltar and the lonian islands the
case is different, and without this bill it would be
impossible, with respect to the public safety and the
service, to reduce these garrisons. The garrison of
Malta has been set down at five regiments ; the same
proportion is given for the lonian Islands ; and the same
for Gibraltar. At present Malta has not that number,
for we have, with respect to Malta, somewhat antici-
pated the decision of Parliament. Though this bill
seemed to be misunderstood when you discussed the
Foreign Enlistment Bill, your lordships must discard the
idea that it is at all compulsory. It was stated assan
objection, that if the bill passed it would be difficult to
obtain under it volunteers for the service. I can assure

the house that the greatest readiness has been shown by
militia regiments in coming forward for the service re-
quired. (Cheers.) Voluntary offers have been made so
general that there has been hardly an exception•—in fact
I know not of any exception. The voluntary offers for
foreign service have been more numerous than can be
required. (Hear.) When I say foreign service, I do
not mean service for the colonies, for which this bill is
sought, but service for the Crimea. We have not
thought it desirable to ask for power to accept these
foreign services. The bill was not drawn with that in-
tention, and it will not bear that construction. If the
Government would attempt to employ it for such a pur-
pose, my noble friend would be the first who would say
we are straining an Act of Parliament. This bill is in
its character entirely voluntary. It not only requires
the colonel of the regiment to propose that the body he
commands be sent out, but it requires the consent of
every man in the regiment. (Hear.) But the principle
goes further ; for it is not only proposed that the consent
should be voluntary, but the particular place must be
specified, so that if a militiaman volunteers for Malta,
we shall not have the power to send him to the lonian
Islands or to Gibraltar. The noble earl has said that
we have power by the bill to send out the whole of the
militia without leaving depots at home for keeping up
the service. There is no doubt that, as at first introduced,
the bill might have been open to that construction, but

as it at present stood, as amended by the Commons, not
more than three-fourths of any regiment of militia could

be accepted for foreign service, one-fourth being re-
quired to remain as a depot. Another improvement
which has been introduced is, that a limit of five years
is placed upon the volunteering, that being the limit for

which the militia regiments
,were origin-ally enlisted.

Observations have also been:lila* as to the non-neces-

sity for such a measure as :4 he commencement of
the war, but I repeat what .Tifave already stated more
than once, that it is at the beairniiiig and not at the close
of the war that these additional4owers and exertions
are required. It is not fair, as has been done by the
noble earl on a former occasion, to compare our condi-

tion at the present moment with that of 1808. The corn
parison ought in justice to be carried back to 1803.
(Hear.) The object of this bill is to enable the Govern-
ment to have an additional reserve in addition to that

oitl;e new battalions to be added to each regiment.

The noble earl (Earl Grey) requested on a previous even-
ing that I would, on moving the second reading of the
bill, afford some information as to how far the powers
given by Parliament last year for increasing the strength
of the army had been complied with. I will endeavour to
afford the noble earl this information. Under the provi-
sions of the Militia Act, the payment made upon the en-

rolment of each man in the militia wag an enrolment fee

of 1.03., and a sum of Bs. 6d. for other expenses. Under
this act a man who had been enliSted for five years could

be discharged either with a view of entering the army,
or for any purpose of his own, upon the repayment of
the sum of 18s. 6d., and finding, an efficient substitute
in the militia regiment, from which he sought to be dis--
charged. The first step taken by the Government to
encourage the recruiting from the militia into the army
was upon the 3d of March, by the repayment of the en-
rolment fee being remitted in cases where the man sought
to be discharged for the purpose of entering into the
army. A further step was taken on the sth of April,
shortly after the declaration of war, when the payment
of the whole sum was remitted if the man seeking to be
discharged enlisted in the aeray, before the time for
the annual training of tn 9 *giraent to which he be-
longed, and at t'ie same time-s further sum of 11s, was
to be given to the man to compensate him for any pecu-
niary loss to which he might have been exposed
by such a step. In May another regulation was made
which removed the whole of the restrictions with respect
to the removal of the soldier from the militia to the line.
The reduction in the standard applies equally to the militia
as to the general population. What the effect of the in-
creased bounty may be I am not able to state. The army
is not yet brought up to its full strength fixed by the
votes of last year. There were two separate increases
made last year to the army amounting together to
40,000 men ; but although the enlistment has been
in the course of the present year larger than in any
former year, we have not yet made the full addition of the
40,000 men.7:lt must be bomb in mind that, in addition
to these 40,000 men, it is • necessary to replace, not
merely the ordinary casualties; Arnounting to 12,000 in
the year, but also those casual-ties consequent upon the
war; so that, in reality, the recruiting which would have
been absolutely necessary to complete the establishment
would have been something like 00,000 men. I am
sorry to say we have not yet reached that point. All I
can say is, that at the present time 25 per cent. of the
militia will not be sufficient for the purposes of the army
and I sincerely hope that, not merely noble lords in the
house, but the public at largo, will, so far from throwing
any impediments in the way of recruiting among the
population, give every possible encouragement in their
power. (Cheers.) I have no hesitation in saving that
no measures which the Government have proposed
that for foreign enlistment or that of which 1 now move
for the second reading, will form anything like a substi-
tute for the enlistment from the general population.
Whatever must be done, whether by the militia or else-
where, we must look for large recruiting to the gene-
ral population of the country. Without that the army
cannot be maintained at such an amount as will enable
us to cope with the gigantic power with which we are
engaged. As one -mode of increasing the disposable
forces at the service of the Government, I hope your
lordships will give your assent to the approval of the
measure, which, I cannot help thinking, is as right in
principle as it will be effectual to the extent it goes for
the purpose for which it is designed. (Cheers.)
The Earl of DERBY said that it was with deep con-
cern he heard the announcement of the noble duke,
that, notwithstanding all the eaorts which had been
male in the course of the presenli year, it had not been
found possible to meet the wishes and views and second
the endeavours of Parliament by raising the regular
forces of the country up to the ; amount sanctioned at
the last meeting of Parliament— that is to say, that the
addition, plus casualties, of 40,000 men has not been
made. He wished that he could concur as fully in
the principle and in the mode by which the Govern-
ment proposed, by the aid of this bill, to carry out the
plan, as he did in the objects which the hill proposed to
effect. But he believed that, so far from promoting,
this bill would rather tend to impede the object which
all had in view, and, at the same time, be accompanied
by other inconveniences, not the least of which would
be an entire change in the character of the miitary ser-
vice. The militia force of this country was one intended
strictly for the maintenance of the domestic tranquillity
and the preservation of the country from the danger of
foreign invasion, and this to such an extent as to enable
the Government to dispense with the presence of almost
gsmaarli nnyno f
this country had always e
the whole of the small standing army when occasion
recinired its services elsewbeheenrea.n
The
itandin
exceedingly
and had always been looked upon with a considerable'
amount of jealousy both by the Parliament and the
people. This jealous had, in his opinion, . been pushed
to too great an extent by a principle of false economy,
y
and the result had been to a great extent the difficulty in
which the country now found itself placed with respect
to raising sufficient forces for the army. (Cheers.) The
standing army had in fact been reduced to such an
amount as made it. not more than sufficient for attend-
ance on the Crown, in the case of the Guards, and with
respect to the line regiments, merely sufficient to provide
xt'ban was
reinforcements or reliefs from time to time for the larger
tpno rat inol theuch
greaterarmy,
te winlitci
The object and uses of the militia
any exposedw were
armyre
n servicete abroadworld.
for home service,
and home service alone. (Cheers.) The militia was an es-
sentially voluntary force, and it was upon the readiness
of the population to volunteer that theycould alone re I y
for keeping. up that militia force, and to maintain that
readiness on the part of the population it
w
necessary that there should be a strict adherence• to the
as essentially
terms and conditions upon which each regiment was
raised. He was desirous of looking at the
question
in-
volved in the bill in two forms;- first as to theuie n
which it would contribute to supply reinforcements anner
for
i n
the regular army, and next as to the consequence which it
might have upon the future enlistment of the militia.
The noble duke was incorrect when lie stated that
this bill would not enable her l\lsjesty to employ any
I regiment of militia in any foreign country ether than in
the Mediterranean. The variation in this bill from the

act of 1812 was very considerable. By the previous
act the Crown was restricted to the employment of the
forces in Europe. The present bill proposed, however,
no stint or rest-i,,ti n whatever, €•,,en the quarter of
the world to which these regiments might be sent, and
the consent required from the militia was preciiely
the same for the Crimea as for any other place. In
1814 his Majesty was empowered to employ the militia
force in any part of Europe, as he might think fit ; the
words of this bill, however, were, "any part or place
out of the United Kingdom." Whatever might be the
intentions of the Government, the words of the bill
would give power to send the militia, with their con-
sent, to the Crimea, just as well as to Gibraltar, Malta,
or the lonian Islands. Nor did the proposed bill offer
a desirable mode of reinforcing the army in the Crimea
in the most efficient manner. The noble duke himself
would not deny that the great error which had been
made in the course of carrying on the war had been that
the Government had not provided an efficient reserve.
They had sent thirty, forty, or fifty thousand men to the
Crimea, but they had no reserve at hand to support
them. At the present moment the garrison of Malta
was reduced very much below its ordinary strength,
and the same he believed was the case in the lonian
Islands. On a previous occasion he had ventured to
express his approval of the suggestion which had been
made—and which he believed originated in that old-fa-
shioned quarter, the Herse Guards—(a laugh)—rather
than with the new Secretary of State—for forming addi-
tional battalions to the regiments serving in the Crimea,
one-half of which was employed as an advance guard
and reserve in the Mediterranean, and the other half
to be detained in England as a depot and for the nu-
cleus for obtaining reinforcements for the army. By
this arrangement the battalions at home would supply
and prepare the raw recruits, and send them forward,
first, to the garrisons of the Mediterranean, whence
they would advance, as required, to the scene of
action, where they would be valuable as trained soldiers.
Now, if the object of the Government were to have
in these garrisons as large and as available resources of
militia, to fill up the barracks with regiments not to be
sent forward to the scene of war, but regiments only
available for those particular garrisons to which they
were to be sent, it appeared to him that the proposal
was one which defeated the very object the Government
had in view. The object of the Government, so far as
he could understand it, was not only to garrison the
islands of the Mediterranean, but to have in each of those
ports the largest available force to assist in the Crimea
when their services were required. By this bill they
would displace a certain number of troops which would
be in those garrisons, and they filled those garrisons
with troops which could not, according to the intentions
of the Government by this bill, be sent to the Crimea.
In his opinion it would have been infinitely better to
have a small military force constantly in those garri-
sons—he cared not how small—and to use every exer-
tion and inducement to encourage the militia, not to
embark as a body for foreign countries, but to; enter
as recruits into the regular army, and thus keep up a
supply of half-trained men, ready to recruit the ranks of
the army. He was not disposed to quarrel- with the
noble duke, nor to discuss with him at what time it was
determined by the Govtrnment to increase the bounty
or to lower the standard, and still less was he disposed
to claim any credit on the part of those opposed to the
Government for having induced them to adopt those
measures. They were steps with the propriety and ne-
cessity of which he fully and entirely concurred. But
the effect of the present bill would be to a great extent to
neutralise all the beneficial results which might have
been expected from the adoption of such a course. It
-had been said that this was a volunteer plan, although?
it certainly did not appear to be very like a volunteer
plan, wh en each regiment, as they had been informed,
had been called upon and required by the Government
to send 25 per cent. of its forces as recruits to the army;
and it was only since that requisition had been made that
there had been any large amount of recruits for the array
from the militia. Perhaps the noble duke would not refuse
to answer this question—although he did not appear dis-
posed to afford much information in that manner—
whether in the case of the militia regiments to be sent
into the Mediterranean garrisons any encouragement
was or was not to be given to those regiments furnish-
ing recruits for the line ? There appeared to him to be
this double difficulty in connection with the proposed
bill. If those regiments were sent out and no permis-
sion given to the men to volunteer into the line, the Go-
vernment would be keeping a large force in the Mediter-
ranean garrisons for a warlike purpose for which it was
utterly useless. Supposing, on the other hand, that
there was an intention to give encouragement to the
men of those regiments to volunteer into the lino, then
the Government would run the risk of sending out
those regiments of militia to be most materially
weakened, and, consequently, of leaving those gar-
risons unduly weakened, in consequence of the ;
encouragement to volunteer which was so afforded.
These were the alternatives between which he thought
the Government were thrown by the introduction of this
_ _

bill and sending the militia into the Mediterranean. The
noble duke had said, if those regiments were first formed

for foreign service, then they could afterwards accept
volunteers for them. He (the Earl of Derby) had no

doubt whatever that men who had had a little training,
and had formed a taste for military practice, would be
found perfectly ready to volunteer into the line from
those regiments, and by that means they would obtain
more efficient service. But what he was looking at was
not the immediate pressure, nor the existing willingness
of the militia, to volunteer, but how far, if the Govern-
ment passed this measure, they could obtain the credit
of any miiitary part of the population ? When the Go-
vernment first enlisted those regiments of militia, there
were certain- `conditions under which they were to. be

embodied. These were, in the event of foreign invasion
and war, and the Government had felt it necessary to
ask the special assent of every regiment, and every
man in each regiment, previous to his being sent
out of the country ; and nothing could have been
more proper than the course thus taken. (Cheers.) He
had no doubt they would find many of those regiments
quite as ready to go to the Crimea as to any of the gar-
risons abroad. But that was not the question. The
question was what were we to do with the agricultural
population, if it once became known that, in joining
the militia; they were entering a service under the
name of the militia, but which might turn out to be
something like the regular service of the army 1 Do
not tell him that it was voluntary with respect to indi-
viduals. It was, practically speaking, not voluntary.
(Hear.) Depend upon it there would be, in the pre-
sent circumstances of the country, no great reluctance
bn the part of many a man now in the militia to plead
his •wn private circumstances and inconvenience for
the purpose of escaping from that which would be put
before him as a duty, though it was a duty which he
never undertook. Well, he might go ; the man now
in the militia might go ; but they would find country
gentlemen, and persons employed in trade, hesitating
very much to enter the militia in future, if they were to
have that moral screw placed upon them in the shape
of an invitation to volunteer into the regular service.
His noble friend behind him suggested to him- what
was to become of a man with a family and with small
means, who had insured his life, and who had entered
into the militia, not, conceiving that it would be any
very sanguinary business. His life might be risked
by going to an unhealthy climate, and to call upon a
man so circumstanced to enter into an arrangement
which he never contemplated, he thought was push-
ing the. voluntary principle to the very extreme.
(Hear, hear.) A. very considerable alteration had been
made in this bill by an amendment introduced into it
at the instance of a right honourable friend of his in
another place, whereby a limitation was put as to the
proportion of any militia regiment to be allowed to go
abroad. He (the Earl of Derby) thought it was a matter
of great importance to keep up that which ought never
to be broken—the connection of the militia regiments
with the country, and even with the county. Send out
the whole of a militia regiment—say the Royal Bucks
or the Royal Staffordshire—and they at once broke up
the connection of the militia with the whole
country. Depend upon it, with regard to the militia
force, considering its peculiar character, constitution,
and duties, it ,was of primary importance that you
should connect them not only with the country, but
also with the county, and with all denominations of
men within that county, from the highest to the lowest
in rank. (Hear.) Leave no root in the county, no
nucleus, no means of reinforcing the militia, and they
broke up its connection altogether with the county, and
entirely altered the whole character of the force. (Hear,
hear.) This bill professed to be founded ou the 54th
Gee. 111., e. 1, in which there was an especial provi-
sion, precisely to the effect of the provision which had
been inserted in this bill, on the suggestion of his right
hon. friend in the other house, namely, prohibiting
more than three-fourths of any militia regiment going
out of the country. He contended that was an inten-
tional blot on the part of the Government ' • that it was
part of the act of 54th Geo. 111., which had been studi-
ously omitted ; that it Was not an error. He did not
desire to interfere with the discretion of the Govern-
ment. It was with great reluctance that he had been
compelled, as a matter of principle, to object to the
Foreign Enlistment•Bilf, and upon any matter of less
vital principle than was involved in that bill he thought
considerable latitude should be given to the Govern-
ment in the means they took for reinforcing the army
at this crisis. He did not intend to offer any opposition
to this bill, but he thought it was not unreasonable,
seeing that in the year 1814, by the act of 54th Geo.
111., not more than 30,000 of the militia were allowed
to be employed at one time out of the United Kingdom
.e—that a limit of something like 15,000 men should be
vow imposed, when the total amount of the militia in
this country was so much inferior to what it was in
1814. Ho objected to this bill, first, because it was
not the most efficient or advantageous mode of re-
cruiting the strength of the army ; and next, upon
the ground that, even altered as it had been, it alto-
gether changed the character of the militia, and ex-
posed us to serious risk—not now— not in the present
year—not under the present excitement—but in future
years in reference to our ability in keeping up the
permanent supply of the militia. (Hear, hear.) He
thought, too, the Government would find themselves
under considerable difficulty when they came to deal with
the question of bounties. He thought there would be
some difficulty in apportioning the amount of bounty to
be given to a man volunteering into the militia and to
another volunteering into the line. But that was a
question with which the Government would have to deal.
The proposition of his right hon. friend in another place
was that not more than three-fourths of any militia regi-
ment should ever be sent abroad at any oue time ; and
he (Earl Derby) was told that considerable amusement
was excited in another place when, on the question be-
ing asked how ninny were to remain at home, the answer
was one-fourth. (A laugh.) It would be very well if that
" establislasuent"
ll
of a militia regiment were to be permitted to servo out
that
te
nott h e
morecase thanb il t asthethree-fourths
h i
was
ofw
of the United Kingdom at ono time. Conceiving the
of a regiment to be 1,200 men, if