The Sun.
London, England, 1853-04-26 00:00:00

hon. gentleman. Ho had not the least douht.that.they
would vote according to their honest and conscientious
convictions. But if a dissolution should occur let them go
back to their town constituencies and canvass them on be-
half of the income tax, and let them tell those constitu-
encies whose sole fortune. lay in their toil and skill how
they were opposed by those selfish aristocrats, the country
gentlemen of England and the supporters of Lord Derby's
Governineht. (Hear, hear.) The hon. gentleman con•
cluded by moving as an amendment, " That the continu-
ance of the income tax for seven years and its extension to
classes heretofore exempt from its operation, without any
mitigation of the inequality of its assessment, are alike un-
just and impolitic." (Opposition cheers.)
• Mr. E. DENISON found fault with the hon. hart., for •
not having given notice of his amendment ; but laying
aside that objection, what did the hon. hart. really want ?
He (Mr. Denison) had listened _most attentively b his
speech, but he had been at a loss to discover what his real
object was. The hon. baronet did not appear to oppose
the continuance of the tax, he only objected to its inequa-
lities ; but the hon. baronet omitted to tell the committee
what his notions of equality were. Did the hon. baronet
wish to adopt the equality recommended by the actuaries?
because, if he did, he, for one, could assure the hon. baro-
net that the tax, if based upon that plan • would assume an
appearance of confiscation. The hon. baronet wanted to
make a distinction between laud and capital embarked in
banks, breweries, icc., but he was at a lost to recognise
such a distinction. The only distinction which he could
recognise was that conveyed in the well-known couplet,
which says—

" When houses and land are gone and spent,
Then learning is most excellent."
But as for making a distinction between the case of an in-
come tax he certainly thought it was quite out of the ques-
tion. For his part he highly approved of the budget, and
he believed the country must feel as the house must have
felt the other night—that a great mind had been at work
for its benefit. The rare intlligence and truthful honesty
which right hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer had
brought to bear upon his subject would find their reward
in the triumphant success of the budget,., which was the
one best calculated to meet the wishes of the people, and
promote the welfare of the country. (Cheers.)
Mr. BOOKER was ready to join in almost every expres-
sion which the hon. gentleman who had just sat down had
applied to the high character and talents of the financial
minister, whose scheme was now under consideration; and
ho also desired to thank the right hon. gentleman for his
kind and courteous attention to some matters of commer-
cial import which he had ventured to submit to him. But
as the representative of an agricultural constituency, and
as a commercial man, he must say that he felt the greatest
dismay at the conclusion to which the right hon. gentle-
man had come, and the plans which he had submitted to
the house. (Opposition cheers.) Speaking for his agricul-
tural constituents, he must say that the right hon. gentle-
man the other night completely made out in the case, and
proved with his proverbial cogency that, so far the income
tax was concerned, they were over-taxed to an enormous
extent, and bore a very uneven share of the burdens of the
state ; for he showed that while trades and manufactures
were subjected to a payment of 7d. in the pound, agricul-
ture was taxed to the amount of 9d.—a difference of 28i
per cent. (Hear.) He wished to know what sieps the
Government intended to take to make the commercial and
trading interests act fairly by the tax for the future ? Was
there to be no guarantee against the committal of such
frauds as that pointed out by the right hon. gentleman the
other night, when property which was stated by the own-
ers to be worth 48,0001., and for which a jury awarded
26,0001., was put down to the income tax at only 9,003/. ?
(Hear.) If this tax was to bo continued it ought to be
continued on fair and equitable principles, and with some
efficient safeguards rgainst fraud. To the continuance of
the tax as now proposed he could not give his consent. He
considered the budget of the right hon. gentleman so ill-
advised as to be deserving of every opposition. (Hear.)
Mr. HUME said that the motion before the house, how-
ever it might be viewed, was of vast importance, for it ap-
peared to- him that the character of that representative
assembly would be tested by the course of their proceedings
thereupon. (Hear.) The diffiCulties which arose and met
them on every side when they had to consider the question
of taxation, were owing to the circumstance that their pre-
sent system was based on no principle whatsoever. (Hear.)
Both the late Government and the present Government
must have felt this when they were considering the question.
What course, then, was the best to be taken, when they called on to decide on this difficult subject? It ap-
peared to him that the best course which they could pur-
sue, if they merit to effect any improvement, was to make
a compromise between the difficulties which beset the ques-
tion. (Hear, hear.) And it was with that intention, he
presumed, that they were called on to consider the budget
as a whole, and to balances the advantages and disadvan-
tages sin both sides. It had been stated by a writer in the
Edinburgh, Review, that he proposed to substitute a com-
plete system of direct taxation for indirect taxation, and
to levy the whole taxation of the country directly. That
was a most erroneous view of the case, and it was evident
the writer had not looked at the evidence before the
committee, or seen the draft of the report which he had
submitted to them for consideration. His object was
to remove some of the inequalities which existed in
levying the present tax ; and notwithstanding all that
had been said on the subject, he was of opinion
that it was possible to remove them. His hon.
friend near him (Mr. Denison) said that the plan of the
actuaries would lead to injustice, or was impracticable.
Now the plan of the actuaries was that every man should
be taxed for the support of the Government in proportion
to his ability ; that whatever a man's property was worth,
it should be taxed in proportion to that value. His opi-
nion was that they should tax down to the lowest amount.
But as they should begin somewhere, and as 501. a year
seemed to be what was barely necessary for the support of
a man and his family, he thought it reasonable to draw the
lino there. Let there be exemption up to a certain amount,
and from that point let every man be taxed according to
his property, the value of which should be estimated by
what, it would sell for. All property—real, personal, and
Industrial—should be taxed at a‘uniform rate ; .and the
value of land, of houses, and of other kinds of property,
should he ascertained as it was every day, by a reference to
the market. Desiring to see a tax on property which was
at once just and permanent, ho would have been the first
to oppose the right hon. gentleman, had ho not found an
equivalent for such a tax in the measure before the house.
(Cheers.) Ho felt be Ind to look at the resolutions as a
whole—(hear, hear)—and when he found what important
changes were proposed in many of the leading branches of
taxation, he did not hesitate to give the measure his sup-
port. (Cheers.) Still, he could hf ve wished that the Go-
vernment had proposed a just propel tass, as a perma-
nent impost. He was satisfied that free trade could not
be fairly carried out unless one-fifth of the whole taxation
were made direct—a proportion which would enable them
to take off almost all the taxes which pres7eal upon irdustay
and place the country in a situation to enter into a success-
ful competition tip ith the world in commerce and manufac-
tures.
For the last 150 years the burde-a of taxation had
fallen more heavily on industry than on property; even
now the taxation of property did not amount to more than
8 or 9 per cent., and it became them, now that everything
was prosperous, to put their house in order, and prepare
to meet a change of circumstances. Re objected to the
right hon. gentleman's scheme of abolishing the tax—what
ho wished was, to see it reformed, in order that it might
be permanently available. (Hear.) As it appeared, how-
ever, that no government was capable of effecting that ob-
ject, ho desired to support the present one, snaking a com-
promise, as it were, of evils, in order that ministers might
be enabled to carry out important reforms. (Cheers.)
Having stated some of his objections to the budget, he
would now mention what he considered to ha its advaia
rages. Ainong these, the proposal with regard to the
.7egacy duty certainly appeared to him the greatest.
Instead of viewing it as an act of robbery, he regarded it
as a simple act of justice that all realised property should,
so far as the legacy duty was concerned, be placed on a
footing of perfect equality with personal property. Since
the present law was enacted no less than about 88,00,000/.
had been levied on personal property, while real property
had been entirely exempt ; and if hon. gentlemen
talked of the injustice of the charge, he would ask them
what they thought of the justice of levying the legacy
duty on 1001. received by a poor widow, while the noble-
man inherited without being subjected to any assessment
(Hear, hear.) He must confess that this part of the budget
had a greater charm for him than any other, and he be-
lieved it would`be well received by the country. The com-
munications which he had received on the subject spoke of
it in the Most favourable manner—(hear)—and without ex-
ception the writers were desirous that the budget should he
carried as it was, in the hope that the Government would
in future see the necessity of removing all useless expendi-
ture, and use every available means of reducing unneces-
sary taxation, and in the full belief also that such relief
could not otherwise be obtained. Although the extension
of the income tax to Ireland might be an unpleasant oc-
currence to many gentlemen connected with that country,
yet, having always been an advocate for the equalisation
of taxation, together with an extension of equal civil
rights, he trusted that Irish members would not refuse to
accept their fair share of imperial burdens. The proposed
reduction of assessed taxes was, in his estimation, calcu-
lated to produce great benefit. He for one wished to see
the whole of these taxes abolished ; and the imposition of
a property tax of 3 per cent., levied fairly, would enable Par-
liament to dispense with them. He had always regarded them
as taxes not so much on luxury as on the poor, and anything
which tended to reduce them would he believed proportion-
ably benefit the whole country. If no other remission of
duty were proposed than that upon soap, he must say that
ho thought it would tend greatly to improve the general
condition of the people. Moreover, no country possessed
such materials and facilities for the manufacture of soap as
our own ; and he was satisfied that instead of importing
from foreign countries, and allowing the colonies to be
supplied from other sources, they would in future do all
that was necessary in that depaa'sment of commerce. With
regard to the stamps and some minor propositions in the
right hon. gentleman's scheme, he believed some changes
might be required, and he'hoped thit general concurrence
could not preclude minor modifications. He rejoiced.that
there had been a furthsr reduction in the number of cus-
toms' duties ; and was opinion that the whole of the items,
with the exception of about fifty, might be removed with-
out injury to the revenue, as well as with '()Teat advantage
to commerce. It would take up too much of the time of
the house te. enumerate the other parts of the budget.
Before sitting down, however, he would mention a plan
which he had suggested, and which he thought was the
only fair one—it was this, that all allowances, fit and pro-
per to keep up repairs on the estate, shorld be deducted
before the property tax was levied. The hon. baronet had
said a great deal about self-assessment. If he looked at
the manner in which the property tax was raised in other
countries, he would find that the evils which he referred
to might be avoided. Ho wished to observe, that he saw
no provision made by the right hon. gentleman with re-
gard to deans and chapters. (Hear, hear.) Such parties
must die some time, and he saw no reason that the same
rate of Charge should not fall on their property as on that
of the rest of the community.
Colonel SIBTHORP said he had heard with infinite sa-
tisfaction the able and lucid speech of his hon. friend the
member for Hertfordshire, and fully agreed with him in
everything that he had said. He had always opposed the
r
income tax, and he should still give it all the opposition in
his_ power; for he considered it a tax which afforded to the
Chancello
of the Exchequer an opportunity of playing
with the financial interests of the country. It might be a
altogether unwar
on the suppositi but to impose it in time of peace was
very geod vin ti
permanent. Did the
right hon. gentleman, the Chancellor
expect to remain in office for seven ears'
hoped he would not do so for years?
seven
drraey s(.° ()
itScilbt t declaration might not appear very
in such a case his tit his country was
to op
might be said t' ~at t to
they were. Yes, they Avoul Ibe cheap cocoa would he cheacpiveril
felt it his dutyP than
aunt
and nasty. (La igh
aa. and
ter.) Come what might, he
features of the budget,
a budget.
Mr. FAGAN admired the mai
ostvoolfyed a deep injury
but would oppose it, as its keysto?,
to Ireland. Ho opposed the extension
to that country on the ground that IrelanaPh'adn"l". tatx
cipated to an equal extent with EuglazA in tale commercialnoar

advantages which accompanied that measure ; and, with
regard to the Consolidated Annuities, denied that t hey had
any relation to the question having in themselves been
already condemned In the Rolle° of terds. Further, he
urged that the proposed imposition was a vioiatiOd Of the
Act of Union, which provided that Ireland should contri-
bute to the taxation of the country in proportion to her
means, in which just proportion she was now paying. In
other respects he approved of the Government measure.
Mr. BUCK opposed the tax, as especially oppressive
towards the farmers of England, who were already a suffer-
ing class.
Mr. BLACKETT, while giving his general support to
the budget, criticised some of it:details, alluding particu-
larly to the inquisitorial nature of the income tax, and its
unjust pressure upon precarious incomes. Understanding
the difficulty of dealing with these objections, he thought
it best that arrangements should be made for the final abo-
lition of the tax. All things considered, in short, he was
for " the budget, the whole budget, and nothing but the
budget."
Mr. KNIGHTLEY would not have objected to the con-
tinuance of the income tax for a few years, but he did not
see the wisdom of legislating for what he might almost call
posterity. He should feel it his duty, under these circum-
stances, to record his vote against the budget.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS considered the propositions of the
right honourable gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer
to be the most statesmanlike scheme of finance he had
heard laid before the House of Commons. The extension
of the income tax to Ireland was only a measure of justice.
He believed himself able to prove that for every shilling of
taxes which Ireland paid it received two shillings from
this country. In the year 1851, the revenue of this country
was about 56 millions, and of this 4,4C3,030/. was collected
in Ireland, at a cost of 618,C191.—that is, at nearly. 14 per
cent., while the cost of collecting the revenue an this
country was only 7 per cent. The honourable member for
Cork complained that Ireland got a very small share of the
remission of taxation. He (Mr. Williams) maintained the
contrary opinion. England paid many taxes from which
Ireland was exempt. The honourable gentleman had also
said that it was only right to take off the four millions
Consolidated Annuities, because they had been lent at a
time of national distress. Now, in his opinion, there were
parts of England in which at that time quite as great dis-
tress existed. In Scotland, the people got on as well rs
they could. In Wales, the land was found sufficient to re-
lieve the people, and they were taxed, and contributions
collected, and by this means corn was brought from other
parts of the world. In Ireland, eight millions were
expended by a vote of the House of Commons ' • and
yet the honourable member for Cork spoke of that
es a mere trifling circumstance, as a gift which it was
only proper to make at a time of national distress.
When Sir Robert Peel first introduced the income tax, in
1812, he (Mr. Williams) proposed that it should be ex-
tended to Ireland, but only to those incomes that were
taken out of the English Exchequer. There was a million
and a half of the interest of the national debt that was paid
in Ireland. There was the salary of the Lord-Lieutenant,
20,033/. • with a whole host of officers under him. The
Four Courts cost at least 30,0031., while the pensioners
drew 70,033/. ; and all this money was taken out of the
pockets of the people of England. (No, no.) He raid yes,
yes, for these charges appeared in the English and not in
the Irish accounts. He thought the Irish members, there-
fore, had every reason to be satisfied with the present
budget. If they expected to be for ever exempted from
the income tax they might rest assured that they were
much deceived. Here was a most liberal of made t
them, with which he would advise them to close.
(Laughter and ironical cheers.) The interest of the are
unities which were about to be given up amounted )
240,0301. a year, and they would have had to pay that is
forty years, while the income tax would only last for sevc_.:
years. (Laughter.) He would venture to say that the
calculations of the Chancellor of the Exchequer in that re-
spect were perfectly correct. If Parliament chop eto take
off that tax, and ten millions more of taxce, which it might
do at the period named, Ireland would reap her frill share
of the benefits. He concluded by expreesirg his entice
concurrence with the budget as a whole. There might L 3
some things which he would be glad to see removed from
it, but if they were he knew he -could not get the advan
tagcs that would result from the other par 'es. (Hear,
hear.) On a s iew of all the parrs of the scheme, and con-
sidering the immense reductions which were proposed, he
thought the right hon. gentleman had shown very gscet
ability in bringing forward a budget which, in his opinion,
would be highly beneficial to the country.
Mr. MAGUIRE said he was opposed to the budget, and
in stating his reasons for taking that course he would take
his stand upon the merits of the question, as far as re-
garded his own country. If the decision concerned Rag-
land only, he was bound to say that his decision would be
of a somewhat different eia-racter. (Laughter.) Were he
an Englishman he might have given a favourable considera-
tion to the budget ; but being an Irishman and feeling
that his country was specially and hardly dealt with in the
cl-.3e, he felt bound to give it a strenuous re-Hst.ace. The,
hon. member for Cork had already proved that Ireland
paid her full share of Imperial burdens, and he would un-
dertake to prove that Ireland was not now in acondition
to have a single pound added to her taxation. But, on
the contrary, it would be a wise and a prudent thing oa
the part of the Minister to reduce the burclea's which
pressed upon her. An enthusiastic gentleman had told
them that night that they should be contented—that they
ought to rejoice that there was a great mind busy with the
affairs of Ireland—that they ought to throw aside any
national objection to this liberal boon, out of regard to the
genius which dictated the measure, and for the noble lan-
gmk,-e which accompanied its presentation. (Cheers a-id
laughter.) He could not acquiesce in these counsels—he
couhl not appreciate the gift they offered. They might
gloss it over with honeyed words, and envelop it in compli-
ments to Ireland, still it would not go down. Then they
were told that they were to have done is ith this tax in
1860. Ho was sorry to be obliged to ask, "Is there ary
honourable gentleman on either side of the house .to
verdant as to believe that it wi'l go then ?" Sir
Robert Peel said that it was only imposed for three years,
but from his experience so far, it was his opinion
would live to the age of Dr. Parr. The right ho.a.
gentleman might say that he would give Ireland 4,000,0 ot.
let Ireland only take the income tax, and that
income tax up to the time whoa he hoped he would be
able to do without it would amount in Ireland to but
3,030,C331. Up to that time it might be so;' but did any
oue suppose that the income tax would be over then ? To
vote for this would be to betray their constituents, and
would render them worthy to be drummed out of the house.
Every Irish member, then, should stand up against what
he must call an unjust, a wanton, and a most cruel attempt
to impose upon that country taxes which she was not able
to bear. It was all very well to talk of the union when
they wanted to tax Ireland, and to forget the union when
Ireland asked for justice. They would not go to the colo-
nists at the Cape for payment of the cost of the war now
concluded; but they asked Ireland, though she was part
and parcel of the United Kingdom, to pay the Consoli-
dated Annuities. This line of conduct was neither jest
nor wise, for Ireland was still woe thy of consideration in
these days, and ought to be propitiated by those who were
really anxious to maintain the greatness and the glory of
the empire. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. WARNER, admitting that there were of course in-
equalities in the income tax, thought it the nearest ap-
proach to taxation according to the ability to pay of those
taxed that had ever been attempted. He would, however,
press this on the Goverement, that, in considering the ie-
come tax, allowance should be made, in both countries, fe,'
local purposes. In a few years he hoped they would be
able to do without it at all ; but for a few years it was in-
dispensable. He asked hon. gentlemen if they threw on
this Budget what would bo the result? Why they wows:
get a dissolution. (Opposition. cheers.) And what woule.
be the use of that to them ? The people of England arc'.
Scotland would not be deterred from their purpose ; they
would be determined at last to see equal justice done to
England, Scotland, and Ireland. As a whole ho heartily
approved of this budget, and should give it his warmest
support. Of course there might be objections to the de-
tails, but he had no doubt they would receive considers=
tion from whatever quarter of the house they came.
(Hear, hear.)
Mr. NEWDEGATE wished to ask whether there was
any member of the Government who would rise in his
place to 9.20 W a necessity for the renewal of this tax ? By
the Chancellor of the Exchequer's own showing there was
none. When be made his statement he said that if the
house would consent to the imposition of higher custom
duties, and the legacy duty, he need not ask the house to
continue this tax. He (Mr. Newdegate), looking at this
in its origin—a deficiency under a Whig Administration
of 10,C33,000/.—and remembering that it was only sub-
mitted to for three years snore to alleviate the distresees
of Ireland, could not but ask honourable gentlemen oppo-
site, who had denounced this tax to their constituents as
unjust and inquisitorial, how they meant to justify the
continuation of it for seven years to themselves? They
might depend upon it, that if they consented to this tax,
they would be consenting to a burden for which they would
get no credit. He might be met perhaps by a reply that
t would be unfair to personal property if it were subject
to a legacy duty, while real property escaped. His answer
was this—the value of real property is always ascertain-
able ; that of personal can only be discovered at this par-
ticular time. Ho sought for no advantage for real property ;
but he was sure that if its burdens relative to other
property were understood, it would be seen on which side
the balance lay. This was his objection to the legacy
duty; but it was not his only objection. He objected to
it, because it would take five-twelfths of the income for
the next five years, exactly the period which was most
depressing, and, in many cases, it would oblige the party
either to mortgage or to sell a portion of the property in
order to effect the intentions of the testator. (Hear, hear.)
In conclusion, he would only say with regard to the in-
come tax that he objected to it, because it was unnecessary
at such a period as the present.
Mr. MILNES (who rose at the same time with Mr. H.
Drummond) said be would not detain the house beyond a
few minutes, for he was sure they must be anxious to hear
his honourable friend, whose eloquence and humour would
enliven the debate, which, so far, seemed to him to possess
but little interest. He had one remark in relation to real
property as affected by the budget. No doubt his right
honottrable friend had felt the difficulties of the question.
He believed, however, that his right honourable friend
would take into his consideration the large burdens at pre-
sent laid upon land, and therefore he could not deny that
this was a very great innovation, which would be attended
with results much grefster, perhaps, than those which fol-
lowed the repeal of tile corn laws. Yet he could not but
believe that this extension of taxation must have been re-
ceived in a very short time, if not this year; and, on the
whole; he was glad, to accept it, accompanied with the
scheme which his fight honourable friend had proposed.
But the present question was that of the income tax. If,
in case of a dissolution, they went to the country, what
would be the question ? The question would not be be-
tween therpreseret scheme of taxation and an abstract sys-
tem, but it would between the present budget and that of
last year. (Hear, hear.) Presenting the, e ;two budgets,
and having regard to the classes upon whom the extension
of taxation would fall, he believed there was not a consti-

tuency in the kingdom, from one end to the other, which
world not pronounce for that of the right hon. gentleman,
He for one should not fear the result. (Hear.)
Sir W. JOLLIFFE said his hon. friend who had just
sat down had put the case in a totally new light ; for in
effect he said—" I am doing away with all the pledges I
made to my constituents ; I am about blindly to follow
the. Minister ; I will bow my neck to what he chooses ; I
am not afraid of my constituents, and I will tell them so."
With respect to the income tax, he contended that if there
was ever a time when it might be removed, the present
was that time, if it was the vnsh of the house and the

Government. 'Certainly there was no prospect of the year
1860 or_lB6l being so favourable as the present moment,

and he believed it might be removed or modified with
greater facility now than at any future period. There was
a large excess of revenue, and we were about to have
2,000 XX of additional taxation. Taking the surplus
and this additional taxation, he at once asked whether the
right hon. gentleman hail not the power of dealing now
with the income tax? He would then have his great
weapon ready to light another day, and it would be
eia
NV or thy of Lim ; but instead of taking this course he re-
peals the' soap duties, which might have been preserved,
for so gr t a Me ainll
as the repeal of the ineotee.tax. All