The Sun.
London, England, 1853-04-27 00:00:00

LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, APRIL 27, 1853.

No. 18,904.]

COLBURN'S NEW MONTHLY MAGAZINE.
The MAY Number will be published on SATURDAY next.
Chapman and B all, 193, Piccadilly.
V Orders received by all Booksellers.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

should be sorry to ignore the claims of the present Go-
vernment. There was only one cause of misgiving among
men of science in the present Government, and that was
the act of the present First Lord of the Admiralty in
having suspended the maritime survey of the British coast.
He hoped that that survey would be resumed. He now
came to the plan which he wished to bring under the
consideration of the house. It was instituted by the
conductor of the laboratory at the National Observatory
at Washington, in the United States, who first conceived
the idea of requiring all the masters of merchant vessels
to enter in their log-books, in addition to all the infor-
mation which those documents usually contain, an ac-
count of all phenomena they might observe at sea which
could be rendered available for the improvement of hy-
drography, and generally for the advancement of science.
The plan was, that the log-books containing these re-
ports should be all sent to the Observatory at Washing-
ton, and that the data so furnished should be collated
and employed in the construction of new and improved
charts, which should be engraved at the expense of Go-
vernment, and furnished to the masters of vessels in re-
turn for the material so supplied. The Custom-house
officers were directed to give circulars containing in-
structions to the masters of vessels, but no fruit
came of this measure. The gentleman he had referred to
however, collected a number of log-books, and discovered
a new (and improved route to Rio. It was tried, and
the voyage which had been usually made in 41 days was
made in 20 days. From this time the whole aspect of
affairs,seemed to change. Materials flowed in in abun-
dance, and now there are upwards of a thousand masters
of ships engaged night and day in recording these obser-
vations. The observations were regularly brought to
the Observatory at Washington, and all the facts up to
November, 1851, were published in a book which he
now held in his held. It appeared that in the old route
to Rio, vessels were in the habit of going so far east as
the 19th degree west longitude, for the purpose of avoid-
ing a current which set in from Cape St. Lucar. It was
shown that it was possible to sail in a great circle part
•f the way, and instead of stopping at longitude 17, it
was possible to elves in, and save 700 Mlles of the dis-
tance. The noble lord then referred to the manner in
which these charts are made ; and concluded by thank-
ing the house for the kindness with which they had
heard him, and stated that he should be happy if he
should have persuaded them that the matter was worthy
of their attention ; for he believed it was the bounden
duty of this country, which had risen to so high a posi-
tion in science and in art, to hold out to them a foster-
ing hand. (Hear, hear, and cheers.)
Earl GRANVILLE said that the interesting, useful,
and in some parts amusing statement of the nole lord,
fully justified the house in expressing by their cheers,
how unnecessary it was for the noble lord to apologise
for bringing the subject before them. He would, with-
out trespassing at any length on their lordships, endea-
vour to show that his noble friend had not taken a calm
and philosophical view of the proceedings of the Govern-
ment and the Admiralty, with reference to this plan, as
well as of the views entertained by the Government with
regard to the progress of science. With respect to what
had been said by the noble lord of the neglect of a sub-
ject, appeared to him (Lord Granville) connected with
the welfare of all mankind, and more especially of a
nation—a large portion of the inhabitants of which had
devoted themselves to maritime pursuits ; it would be
seen by the pali.ers which had been laid before the house,
that in furtherance of this project, a book which had
been received by Lord Palmerston was directed by him
to be sent to Sir John Burgoyne, and which had refer-
ence to the taking of meteorological observations. He
(lord Granville) received information on the sub-
ject at the Foreign-office on the 19th February ;
and, five days after, he directed Mr. Addington to write
to Sir John Burgoyne for further information, in order
to the promotion of the object in view. The matter
then fell into the hands of the late Government, and
although the correspondence did not go on quite so
briskly as was desirable, yet by reading the correspond.
ence, so far as could be gathered from what they had
written, it would appear that it was the desire of the
Government to promote the subject. Then on coming
to the share which Lord Clarendon had in the matter, it
would be found that 8 days after he had received the
observations of the American Government with regard
to the opinion of the Royal Society, he wrote to the
Treasury, requesting that they would take such steps as
they might think right and proper in order forthwith to
carry out the object in question. (Hear.) The subject
was now before that department, not a very idle one
just at present, with a view to the carrying out of Lord
Clarendon's report. Several questions were, however,
to be considered. In the first place, the superintend-
ence of the plan and the persons to whom it was to be
referred ; and there was also another point—namely,
that there was a quantity of valuable matter relating to
the subject deposited in our archives which was in a
very undigested state, and which it would be desirable
to have digested and arranged. The matter .could not
be placed under the control of existing board's, and it
was not desirable to create irresponsible boards for
the purpose. There was one important considera-
tion, which had been mentioned by his noble friend,
and that was that, except by accident, none of our
officers on board men-of-war possessed the instruments
necessary for making observations of this kind,
and that deficiency was greater still in the merchant
service. He had thus shown that this subject had
received the attention of the Government, and that they
were anxious to give it every' possible assistance. His
noble friend had made some remarks of a curious cha-
racter on the alterations which had been made in the
surveys carried on in the navy. He (Lord Granville)
was able to state that no foreign survey had been
stopped, or any home survey suspended, except that
at the mouth of the Thames, which had died a natural
death at the end of twenty years. His noble friend
said that that survey could not be finished on account
of the shifting sands. It was clear that you could not
have a perpetual survey on shifting sands, but it was
the intention of the Government that the survey at the
mouth of the Thames should be continued from time to
time. With regard to the reduction of expense in the
surveys that were to be carried on, that would be effected
by not employing post captains, but substituting for
them masters, who, to the honour of the navy, were
found fully able to carry on the surveys in a competent
manner. He thought it was important both for the in-
terests of the science of the country itself, as well as
with a view to the obtaining of reasonable money grants
from the representatives of the people in the other
house, to show that economy had been observed. (The
noble earl, with reference to this point, quoted a pas-
sage from a speech of Sir J. Herschell, in which he
urged, in effect, " that economy in asking was as great
a virtue as economy in granting, and that every pound
too much asked was so much thrown away.") He (Earl
Granville) fully concurred in that opinion. The British
Association had kept in view the principle of economy
in asking, and in 1836 every application from that so-
ciety and the Royal Society had been cheerfully re-
sponded to by the Government of this country. The
noble earl then referred to an observation of Dr. Whe-
well in regard to the assistance given by Government
in 1842 to the objects of science, and which was to
the effect that, "by that means, an undertaking
had been entered on for- a survey of the terrestrial
globe, combined with the operations of a naval
survey and fixed observations in different parts of
the world; which was a scientific operation far
surpassing anything which had ever been before
attempted, and was such an one as Bacon might have
designed." At a later period Lord J. Russell by one of
his last acts had granted 1,0001. a year to the council of
the Royal Society, which had been most fruitful in use-
ful effects, and he believed that the researches of Hoff-
man and others were chiefly owing to that grant. With
regard to the present Government acting on a sugges-
tion in the report of the Commissioners of the Exhibition
of 1851, they had since they had been in office formed a
scientific branch of the Board of Trade, for which they
had secured the valuable services of Dr. Playfair, with
a view to the promotion of scientific education, and a
sum of 23,0001. a year had been granted for scientific
purposes and for obtaining information from other coun-
tries and from scientific societies in this country. There
was another matter which, though a small one, he
thought would in future have an important effect, and
that was, an arrangement which had been made by the
Committee of Education of the Privy Council for fur-
nishing the means to elementary schools of obtaining at
a small expense collections of philosophical instruments.
He could only add with regard to the Government, that
while every consideration was due to eminent men who
devoted their lives to the cause of science, it was the
bounden. duty of the Government to give every assist-
ance to improvements in science which were carried on
on the principle which the Government were desirous of
promoting, and yet to avoid doing that which would be
better done by individuals without them, and leaving
minor points to that self-action which had achieved so
many objects in this country. (Hear, hear.)
Lord COLCHESTER shortly explained the course
taken by the Board of Trade and the Foreign Secretary
expressedeve
rn m en
th
intended
tegratifica-
tioned e d
to
the late Government to promote the object to
which the noble lord had referred, which they had
evinced
at findingever y atraite ttyh
et
presentto
take up the subject.
to scientific objects by the Government of Lord Mel-
bourne in 1836 and 1838, when he was connected with
athe mistake on the
Lord MONTEAGLE referred to the assistance given
doan
dG
promotion
attended with
great
expense,
scientific pursuits was
in fact, the expense was to be counted, not by
whereas,
but by hundreds of pounds. He also drew
thousands,
thepar
part
Treasury, stuhr:,
publicanel
supposet hat it wasthat
attention to the indirect but important result which
would be likely to attend observations of the d now
proposed, which invited the co-operation for one common
object of all the nations of the earth.
.n
I
The subject then dropped.
1 The house then adjourned at 20 minutes to 8.

Dedicated, by permission, to her Majesty.'
On Saturday, the 30th of Ap 1r 1,
1853,
of will be publighed, price 6d.,
o. I.
THE ENGLISH CYCLOPIEDIA.
A New Dictionary of Universal Knowledge. Based on the
" Fenny Cyclopsedia," but carefully corrected and brou
trated witebt up to thh
e
present state of knowledge in every department. Illus
many hundred Wood Engravings.
Conducted by Mr. CHARLES KNIGHT.
*** Prospectuses may be had upon application to the Publishers, or
to any Bookseller in town or country.
London: Published by Bradbury and Evans, 11, Bouverie•street.

On May 2d will be published, Part I. of
MR. PARKER'S NEW MAGAZINE,
THE NATIONAL MISCELLANY,
A New Monthly Periodical of General Literature.
On the 2d of May it is designed to commence the publication of a
new Monthly Periodical, to he entitled " The National Miscellany."
As its name imports, it will be a Magaxine of General Literalure.
giving itself free range over every subject likely to be of general
interest.
" The National Miscellany" is an attempt to supply high•princip'ed
safely
and a high-toned Literature of a secular kind, which may
be
taken up by thoughtful persons when their more serious reading is
over, and which may also indirectly act for good on those who
thrust all religious works aside.
It will be issued in Shill ng Monthly Parts, and the type and paper
will be of a superior kind.
All communications and books for review must be addressed to the
Editor, under cover to Mr. Parker, 377, Strand.
London : John Henry Parker, 377, Strand.

THE PENNY CYCLOPXDIA. of the
SOCIETY of USEFUL KNOWLEDGE,
Originally published by Mr. CI:LULU Kerma.
Messrs. ORR and Co. have to anounce, on the part of the Pro-
prietors of the PENNY CYCLOPADIA, that they are preparing a
NEW and CORRECTED EDITION of that GREAT and IMPOR-
TANT NATIONAL WORK, which they have the exclusive right of
publishing as a continuous Alphabetical Encyclopredia. The Work
will be re-edited throughout with the utmost care, all modern, dis-
coveries introduced. and the whole brought down to the presort
time, so mat. rmantatioll -universally

~gtrPE tr NY CYCLOPADIA. - To setitro
the most complete and efficient manner, gentlemen of the highest
standing in the various departments of knowledge will contribute
their assistance.
In this Edition the present Supplement, as well as the new
will
ter, will be incorporated, so that this Cyclopiedia, exclusively,
possess the adxantage of being comprised under one alphabet, having
each article in its proper place.,
The New Edition will be published in Numbers, Parts, and Vol-
umes, will be completed in less than five years, and with a view to
meet a demand such as it formerly obtained (exceeding 30,000), sold
at the lowest remunerating price. An Edition will also be issued
containing Steel Portraits and Maps, in addition to the Woodcuts.
The Publication will be commenced almost immediately, and full
particulars published.
*** As the present is the only opportunity for purchasers of the
original issue to complete their Sets, orders for back Volumes, Parts,
&c., should be forwarded without delay.
London: Wm. S. Orr and Co., Amen-corner, and all booksellers.

TOZEAIT'S COPAHINE-MEGE, or Saccharatta
C tSPULES, approved by the French College of Physicians, and
successfully administered in the Paris and London Hospitals, and
acknowledged by them to be the best remedy for the cure of
GDnorrohcea, Gleet, and Leucorrhceal Discharges, on an everage of
six days (see " Lancet " of 6th Nov., 1852, an extract from which
will be forwarded immediately on application).—Prepared and sold
by G. Joieau, sole French chemist, 49, Haymarket, London ; and
Jozean, Pharmacien. 161, Rue Montmartre, Pad, ; and the principal
chemists of France, England, and the Colonies. nice of bottle of
100 capsules, 4s. 6d.; 50 do., 2s. 9d., with direzttion3, and stamp with
the name of Gabriel Jozeau printed thereon.

DUBLIN GREAT INDUSTRIAL
EXHIBITION.
TOURS IN IRELAND IN 1853.
IRISH TOURIST TICKETS (availab'e for a month) vial be
issued at the f.illo•ving stations, on and after 10th MAY :-
Ist Class. 2il Class.
London (Euston Station)" ...... £6 10 0 £5 5 0
Edinburgh, Glagg3w, Hull, Bristol, Carlisle,
5 5 0
Worcester, Cheltenham, Gloucester •• •• .... 5 15 0 4 15
Birmingham, Rugby, Leamington, Coventry,
Wolverhampton, Huddersfield, Leeds, Shef-
field, Derby.... •••••••••• • • •• • • •• 5 0 0 4 5 0
Manchester, Warrington, Stoke, Macclesfield 4 4 0 3 10 0
Liverpool, Chester 4 4 0 3 6 0
-

. -
They enable the holden to proceed to Chester, Bangor, Dublin
Cork, and the Lakes of Killarney.
The holder of each Irish Tourist Ticket Is entitled to have issued
to him, at the office, 52, Westland-row, Dublin, at very reduced
rates, tickets for a tour in the county Wicklow, in Kenmore and
Glengariff, up the river Shannon--for the journey from Dublin to
Belfast, for the excursion to the Giant's Causeway, and from Dublin
to Galway for the tour through Connemara.
Every purchaser of a ticket is presented. grati., with a copy of the
" Illustrated Irish Tourists' land• Book," compiled solely for these

Tours.
The fullest and most accurate information afforded at the Chester
and Holyhead Company's Office, 52, Westland•row, Dublin. See
also " Bradshaw's Guide," page 123.

APPETITE AND DIGESTION IMPROVED.
.EA and PERRINS' WORCESTERSHIRE
JILA SAUCE imparts the most exquisite relish to Steaks, Chops,
and all Roast Meat Gravies, Fish, Game, Soup, Curries, and Salad,
and by its tonic and invigorating properties enables the stomach to
perfectly digest the food.
The daily useof this aromatic and delicious Sauce is the best safe-
guard to health.
Sold by the proprietors, Lea and Perrins, 19, Fenchurch-street,
London, and 68. Broad-street, Worcester; also by Messrs. Barclay
and Sons, Messrs. Cresse and Blackwell, and other oilmen and mei-
chants, London ; and generally by the principal dealers in sauce.
Isi".r..—To guard against imitations, see that the names of " EAL
and PERRIN " are upon the label and patent cap of the bottle.

LADIES of DELICATE COMPLEXION, who
suffer from exposure to cold winds and damp atmosphere, will
find Immediate and soothing relief in the application of

ROWLAIWS' KALYDOR.
This unique Botanical Preparation allays all irritation and tender-
ness of the skin, removes cutaneous disfiguremefreckle% and tan,
and Imparts a healthy and blooming appearance to the complexion
and a delicacy and softness to the neck, hands, and arms. Perse-
verance in its application promotes a free and unintertapted exer-
cise of those important functions of the skin, so e.sential for the
preservation of health, and the attainment and continuance of a
beautiful complexion.
Gentlemen, after shaving, 'will also Thad it allay the irritability and
smarting pain, and renter the skin soft, smooth, and pleasant.
Its purifying and refreshing prcperties have obtaired its selection
by Royalty, and the several Courts throughout Europe, together
with the "elite" of the Atistocracy.—Price 4s. 6d. and Bs. 6d. per
bottle.
CAtrriox.—The words " Rowlands' Kalydor " are on the wrapper,
and "A. Rowland and Sons, 29, Hatton-garden, London," on the
Government Stamp, affixed on each bottle. Sold by them, and by
Chemists and Perfumers.

MEDICAL ADVICE ON THE SECRET INFIRMITIES OF
• YOUTH AND MATURITY.
DR. SAMUEL LA'MERT, 37, BEDFORD-SQUARE, LONDON,
Doctor of Medicine, and Matriculated Member of the University o;
Edinburgh, Honorary Member of the London Hospital Medic
Society, Licentiate of Apothecaries' Hall, London, &c., &c.
JAY be consulted, personally, or by letter, on
the various disorders of the nervous and generative system,
resulting from Juvenile irregularities and excesses, which have pro-
duced more misery In youth, degradation in manhood, and prema-
ture decay at all stages of life, than perhaps any o...her class of dis-
eases known to mo is Long and pracacal exper'ence
in the treatment ofthese diseases has proved that tnere are in exist-
ence secret causes of self-acquired miseries and disappointed hopes in
existence, traceable to certain pernicious habits, to which Nervous
Debility, various forms of Insanity, Unhappy and Unfruittlll Marri-
ages, Impotency, Local and Constitutional Weakness, find 'their
endless modifications owe their almost entire origin.
It is absolutely necessary that all men should know that there are
principles of personal management which cannot be violated w:thoat
incurring grievous penalties, and when wisdom and regret &Jeered
the heyday of inconsiderate self-indulgence, how these penalties
may be mitigated, how the sting of their bitterness may be removed,
and bow the evil and its consequences may be avoided, and above all,
that there is scarcely any degree of physical infirmity or functional
derangement to which the timely aid of science cannot apply a cure.
DOCTOR LAWERT has for a long series of years been engaged
in an extensive practice in the treatment of these delicate com-
plaints, and s the only legally qualified Physician who, regardless
of the taunts and envy of the hypocritical and mock-modest, has had
the confidence, through the medium of the public press, to direct
attention to these enormous evils, from which no grade of society is
tree. In selecting 11114 department of practice, ho has been amply
ran arded by the great success that has attended his efforts in the
treatment of these cases, which are too generally confided to the
care of unqualified and ignorant empirics, who, with their pirated
publications, assumed foreign names and titles, and pretended virtues
of their patent nostrums, have inflicted ser'oas Injury on those who
have been induced to place faith in their pretensions.
At home for consultation daily from Eleven till Two, and from
Six till Eight. All letters must contain the fee of ii., and advice and
medicines can be forwarded to any initials or address.
It is desirable that patients wishing to consult Dr. LA'MERT
should first obtain a copy of his work on
SELF-PRESERVATION.
A Medical Treatise on the Philosophy of Marriage, and Nervous and
Generative Debility, illustrated by fifty coloured engravings, and des-
cribing in detail the various disorders resulting from secret habits and
excesses. The perusal of this treatise will assist in the correct
description of their cases, and may be had, price 25 6d, in English,
French, Spanish, Dutch, Italian, or German, of Messrs. Piper
Brothers and Co., 23, Paternoster-row; Hannay, 63, Oxford-street;
Maim, 39, Cornhill ; Stone, Titchborne-street, Haymarket; or free
by post for forty-two stamps, to any address from the Author's resi-
dence, 37, BEDFORD-SQUARE. LONDON.

AN AMOROUS TRADESMAN. A singular affair was
submitted a few days ago to the Criminal Court of Zu-
rich. A Bavarian tradesman established in that city
complained that two men of Pfalfikon named Orni, had
swindled him out of 4,000 f., on the promise of making
himlnve may a wealthy heiress who they said had fallen in
withofhhim
i; anedenathyooiurnagot
pinlioteh,e vbiyllapgeerolovnasatianeg-
cused
the heiress. The gullible tradesman, it appeared, not
y
only paid his money freely, but had frequent interviews
n . r
ea nto
thetothhn
with the girl, and took he;
to the theatre ; whilst she on
her part carried impudence so far as to sign the wedding
c ,
rtht nameewedwme
nonecfrnett
hhotyefo htmhte
awei rnoye, seaunndg t •seTnhdienigmhpiossimtioanrriwagaes
discovered
lady.hree
years' T he Courtimpri-
sonment,
presentsco condemned
ine od
the residence
and the young woman to nine months' of the
sa,mAe
spnAnßinshmovi Eents.cAT,E.—A.
rather singular
Faubourg event took
place the evening before last in the St.
Martin. A young female, the wife of a man
respectable situation, had become enamoured of holdingyna
a
shopman and was induced by his solicitations to promise
• -
to meet him at his lodgings, in a room on the fifth floor.mlse
Her husband having obtained information of the
connection proceeded to the lodgings of the shopman
and knocked at the door. Not getting an immediate
answer, he began to kick at the door in order to break
it open. The female recognised the voice of her
husband, and in her anxiety to escape detection knotted
the sheets of the bed together, and began to let herself
down from the window. The sheets, however, were
not long enough to enable her 'to descend far, and there
she hung at a fearful distance from the ground, while a
crowd assembled in the street expecting every moment
to see her fall. Fortunately her feet touched the balcony
of the third floor, and she was taken in by the persons
occupying it and thus saved from a frightful death.
The Manchester police, following the successful ex-
ample of the force in Liverpool, have memorialised the
watch committee of the city council for an increase of
wages, and their memorials aro now, we understand,
under consideration. The force comprises 400 men, ar-
ranged in four divisions, destuated by the first four let-
ters in the alphabet.

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[PRICE SD.

select committee appointed to inquire into the petition sent disjointed system. Legislation on the responsibi-
againstl
have
lice,service.av3e shouldrwn 0
lity of the Government was required, and he hoped that
the Government would grant the inquiry he was desir-
the return for the borough.
UklVelpEt
assemcounedhedastpheesmsibelteiounnebmuptldeyidedsoinonpoyleiie
PRIVATE BUSINESS.
Great T he
'Grimsby following billslm p r
Improvement
wereem erne:
;d
Wakefielda third t i tune
3e
faanrdit
ept a. ss e d : '
ti
io uffse
different
t
grounds. It was his opinio'n that the military
HOUSE OF LORDS—(YESTERDAY.)
T h e —Edinburghrepert 8
en High
the Streetfollowing
I,s Railwaywere e
eSnt
saitdme
rne, d
peTlhieeereatall. should
Tbheeatigmeneehraaldand-
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the wool-
ar r
il,edte continuous
inquirep o-
hilbeereas there are now twenty-two counties who
sack at five o'clock.
The Earl of LA.NESBOEOUGH presented petitions.
agreed to :—Norwich Waterworks ; Staffordshire Pot-
L&Paeeoun.td--;
t e rTi ehsefollowingWaterworks
h i LH
wereossen dar
elaed Wa asteecrownodrktsh
n.
Jews into Parliament.
from places in Leicestershire, against the admission of
Lord LYNDHURST presented a similar petition from
he University of Cambridge. don and South-Western Railway (Basingstoke and whether the establishment of the police had been bene
The Earl of HARDWICKE presented similar peti- Salisbury Branch) ;Poole Harbour 'and Port (No. 2) ; ficial or otherwise. He considered that thepolice -
had
tions from Reigate and other places, and also a petition London and Finsbury Improvements and Railway, &c. Proved themselves most efficient. In six months
from the farmers of Leicestershire, praying for a repeal BERMONDSEY REGULATION BILL. not more than two vagrants had come to his
of the malt tax. On the motion for the second reading of this bill, gate. (Hear, hear.) He would certainly support the
Lord ST. LEONARDS presented petitions from five Mr. BRADY intimated that though his name ap- motion.
building societies at Birmingham, against the R,egistra- peered on the back of the bill, circumstances had come After a few words from Lord LOVAINE,
tion of Assurances Bill. to his knowledge which induced him to withdraw his sup-
Mr. RICH said he was very glad that this motion
EGISTRATION OF ASSURANCES BILL. port from it, and to leave it entirely to the decision of had been brought forward. The system of an organised
The LORD CHANCELLOR moved that the house the house. police had worked extremely well because the whole
Mr. A. PELLATT said he was instructed by his con- body of the police was under one management. There
go into committee on this bill.
Lord ST. LEONARDS said that his objections to stituents in Bermondsey to oppose the second reading, were no less than 30,000 police constables in England and
on the ground that the bill had, not received the sanction Wales, buts here were so mange onflicting jurisdictions that
the bill were not removed by the observations which had there was no uniform s stem of
of the parish, and was simply the act of an individual. ymanagement whatever, the
been introduced in the select committee, but he did not Sir J. SHELLEY hoped the house would allow the great abuses often
consequence was that
arose
from the
think it worth while to oppose the present stage. bill to go to a select committee. necessity of calling out the military in cases of local dis-
After a few words from Lord CAMPBELL and the Mar- Sir W. MOLESWORTH objected to the bill, which turbances, whereas if there was one uniform system of
finis of SALISBURY, the bill passed through committee. he said was introduced for the amendment and consoli- control over the police, all such evils would be obviated.
POSTAL COMMUNICATION WITH more admirable than the system on which
ng
Nothing could be .
dation of the existing local acts affecting Bermondsey,
AUSTRALIA. the metropolitan police force was managed;i on the recent
but it had not received the assent of any public meet
Lord WHARNCLIFFE asked the Government who- occasion of the Duke's funeral considerable anxiety was
of rate-payers, or of any public body in that parish. The
they any arrangement had been made for the postal set- for the
felt on the part of the Government.. preservationh
bill was, in fact, solely promoted by the solicitor whose
vice to Australia, in consequence of the dissolution of of order, owing to the conflicting jurisdictions which
vice appeared on the back of de bill.
existed between the city and the metropolitan
the contract with the Australian Royal Mail Company.
After a few words from Mr. WHALLEY and Mr.
Viscount CANNING said the noble lord had some-police. Now it was highly desirable that such conflict-
OLIVEIRA, the bill was withdrawn..
what overstated the deficiency of communication that ing jurisdictions should be abolished, and a uniform
existed with Australia in consequence of the termina- PETITIONS. mode of proceeding, applicable to the entire force of the
tion of the contract with the Australian Steam Packet Mr. H. WYNDHAM presented a petition from Cum- country, adopted in its stead ; and he was therefore
Company. He subsequently observed, which was no berland, praying for the total prohibition of the sale of heartily glad that the hon. gentleman, the member for
doubt correct, that there was a communication already intoxicating drinks on Sunday. Dover, had brought the subject forward.
secured on alternate months by the overland mail, Lord R. GROSVENOR presented a petition from the Sir J. PAKINGTON thought the Government could
branching off at. Singapore. That communication was metropolis, in favour of the total repeal of the soap give all the information that was necessary upon this
undisturbed by.tlua tdrmination of• the contract with the] duties..- subject ; he, therefore, could not see the use of ap-
Australian Steam Packet Company, inasmuch as it rested Mr. SCHOLEFIELD presented a petition from let- pointing a committee. (Hear, hear.) No doubt
on the Peninsular and Oriental Steam Packet Company, ter-press printers of Birmingham, against all the taxes there was a good deal of force in the objections
and he had no reason to doubt that they would fulfil on knowledge, and against the proposal of the Chancel- that were taken to the present system, but he thought
their engagement. So far the communication with the for of the Exchequer with regard to the stamp duty on they could be all removed by a legislative enactment,
Australian colonies was secured by the shortest route, supplements. without going to the trouble of a committee.
which had at present been employed. In regard to the Mr. COWAN presented a petition from tobacco Lord PALMERSTON said undoubtedly this was a
supply of another alternate monthly communication in manufacturers in Edinburgh against the proposed inter- matter upon which the Government might properly
consequence of the failure of the Australian Steam ference with the tobacco licenses. give information, but, nevertheless, he thought, with the
Packet Company, he must be allowed to remind their NOTICES OF MOTION. view of collecting information, and of collecting facts
lordships that upon the accession of her Majesty's pre- Mr. HEYWOOD gave notice that on this day fort- showing the advantages which had resulted to some
sent Government to office they found, as stated in the
nights night he would ask for leave to introduce a bill for sine- counties from the establishment of the police, and the
speech of the Chancellor of the Exchequer a few
plifying the mode of registering the names of graduates inconvenience which had arisen in other cases from the
ago, that the engagements to which the revenue of this in the arts, law, and medicine. , want of such a force, he thought the committee proposed
country was liable to carry on the packet service Lord D. STUART gave notice that on the 4th of by his hon. friend would be found extremely useful. He
amounted to no less than 800,000/. a year, •It needs no May he would move for the appointment of a select corn- thought that the hon. gentleman would, byobtaining the ap-
argument to show that that sum for the purposes to mittee, to inquire into the cost for the maintenance and pointment of the committee, greatly assist the Govern-
which it was applied was enormous. It was time that a general superintendence of the metropolitan police.. ment in regard to any measure which they might
certain amount, he was sorry to say not so large an
MONEY-ORDER OFFICE IN THE HOUSE. deem it necessary to propose. In supporting the motion,
amount as they might expect, was returned to the revs- therefore, he did not wish it to be understood that he
nue in the shape of postage ; but it was not only the Mr. FREWEN asked the Secretary to the Treasuz•y shrank from the responsibilitywhich his
nue
amount of this sum that weighed on Government, but if the Postmaster-General was prepared to make the office.
it was the fact that the great majority of the contracts post-office at the House of Commons a money-order
Colonel SCOBELL defended the parochial system of
under which these sums were to be paid were contracts office, for the purpose of granting money-orders on the police, which he considered would be the introduction of
for terms oaring from 7,9, 10, and 11 years. Copse- country post-offices to the members and officers of the improvements, answering every purpose in rural dis-
quently, unless in the case of some such accident as house. tricts.
happened to the Australian Steam Packet Company, Mr. WILSON said he had communicated with the Lord D. STUART was glad the noble lord had
whereby, from the entire failure of the contract the Go- Post-office authorities on the subject, and arrangements agreed to the committee, believing it would be the
vernment has it in their power to put an end to it, the had been made by them which would enable them to means of eliciting a great deal of valuable information,
Government must keep up this expenditure for that carry that object into effect if it was the pleasure of the but he was opposed to the establishment of a eenpral
number of years. Her Majesty's Government turned house. It was only for the house to determine whether system of police under the control of the HomebSecre-
their attention to the subject, and lost no time in aster- the convenience of a money-office was sufficient to justify tar
y. (Hear, hear.) Such a system of centralisation,
twining whether some measure might not be taken its incurring the necessary expense. he believed, the people of this country would not submit
to relieve the revenue from these heavy payments. Lord SEYMOUR wished to know what the expense to. He agreed with the hon. member who had just
While this investigation was being proceeded with, the would be ? spoken that one in a thousand would be too large a
opportunity arising from the failure of the Australian Mr. WILSON said he would ascertain, and inform number of police. The population of Herts was about
Steam-Packet Company occurred. They thonght it the house on another day if it considered that au element 130,000, and though the number of police had for the
their duty to devise some effective system which would worthy of consideration. He thought it was. last thirteen years been only seventy, the state of crime
be more economical, and would satisfy all the wants of ' Mr. HUME hoped the hon. member would give an was very satisfaotory. In the metropolitan police dis-
the community both in this country. and the colonies. estimate of the expense' to the house. tried the police rate was Bd. iu the pound, in Herts it
Having this objeckin view, her Majesty's Government THE ARCTIC EXPEDITION. was only 2d. In the course of the discussion he had
determined that it would not be consistent with their some eulogistic remarks in reference to the Lon-
heard
Mr. VERNON said he wished to put a question to
duty to accept any overtures to enter into long contracts don police. Compared with the police force which ex-
the right honourable baronet the First Lord of the
such as that which had just lapsed, and accordingly one isted in different of Europe, andwhichmade
or parts
Admiralty with reference to the Arctic expedition.
or two offers made on the part of other companies toan instrument of espionage and oppression, the
(Hear.) It was, perhaps, within his knowledge that the
metro-
take up the lapse of service of the Australian Steam- police certainly deserved to be very popular, but
captain of her Majesty's ship Plover had sent a letter, politane
Packet Company had not been accepted. The course dated last August, reporting that this ship was in a he thought they might be made much more efficient and
which her Majesty's Government thought to pursue was useful without any additional expense.
very leaky and unfit state, and strongly urging that a
this—they thought, as in other cases where ships were Mr. MACKIE moved that the inquiry should be ex-
steam-ship should be sent out to communicate with her, _
tended to Scotland.
employed, so the carriage of the mails by private enter-
He was also perhaps aware that the Enterprize and
Mr. HA.STIE seconded the amendment.
prise might be called into requisition. With this view,
the Investigator had-not been heard of for more than
invita- The.motion, as amended, was then agreed to.
it was their intention to issue, by advertisements,
,
two years. The question which he wished to put was,
rnate whether he was prepared to state the reasons which had. COMMUNICATION WITH IRELAND.
tions to tender to carry one or more mails in alte Mr. H. HERBERT moved for a select committee to
months to the Australian colonies. It was the inten-
induced the late Board of . Admiralty to decide on
tion of. Government to prescribe the price which they
were willing to pay for this service, and the only item sending out the Rattlesnake, for the purpose of comma- .
examine and report upon the present state of the commu-
on which tenders would be asked from the various corn- pleating with the Plover, in preference to a screw- t'o pica. 1.. n between England and Ireland, as regards the ax-
onthe mails, the transportof t
peehtious conveyance of
mercial an_shipping firms who entered into the engage- steamer, which it appeared by the authority of all and the convenience afforded to the public, and to the
ment would be as to the time within which the service persons competent to judge on the subject was most Irish representatives in particular in their attendance on
could be performed. It was the intention of Govern- likely to give efficient aid to that vessel, this house, and to report what improvements modern
ment to tie up those who entered into the engagement Sir J. GRAHAM said he was not aware of the dig- science can suggest to establish a more speedy and commo-
with as few stipulations as possible, none indeed except patch alluded to by the hon. member, 'from the captain dious communication between the two countries. He said,
such as might be necessary for the punctual departure of the Plover ; but he did know this—that when the it having been intimated to him that there would be no
of the ship, and the safe conveyance of the mails. Sub- present Board of Admiralty came into office they found objection on the part of the Government to the appoinis-
jectto these conditions, the shipping company which an arrangement completed that sailing vessels, and not ment of a committee, he would not trouble the house with
would undertake to perform the voyage in the shortest steam-vessels, should be sent on this search. The order any lengthened remarks. He trusted that, under the cir-
time would receive the contract. Whether her Ma- of the board was dated the 15th and 10th December, but cumstances, there would be no objection to the appointment
of a select committee.
jesty's Government would enter into a contract for more no reasons were assigned for giving it. The pre- Mr. GEORGE,
than two or three voyages, is a matter which would sent board adopted the decision of the late Steam-packet Company, denied •
that the packet service had
depend on circumstances, and which might depend board, entirely concurring in its
, propriety. His deteriorated in their hands ; but the fact was that the con-
on the tenders which might be received ; but under honourable friend was perhaps aware that it was tract terms were wholly inadequate, and if increased speed
no circumstances would Government at . present con- not intended to send any fresh expedition into the ice on were deinanded, new vessels of large size and immense
sent to enter into a long continuous engagement the western side. There were already within that dan- power iaust be built, for which purpose new terms must
for a number of years, saddling the revenue with gerous region three or four expeditions, and the present be arranged with the Government. He had great pleasure
such heavy sums as were now paid under the present Board concurred with the last that it was net expedient in supporting the motion for a committee.
system of complex contracts. There was no doubt this to add to their number. (Hear.) He was perfectly Sir R.. BULKELEY said that, although not one of the
was to a certain degree in the nature of an prepared to lay the order of the Board on the table, representatives of Ireland, he knew very well that at the
experiment, and although he felt pretty sanguine of
Go- ATTORNEYS' CERTIFICATE DUTY. time of the union it was distinctly understood that the
communication between the two countries should be made
cess, it was still a possibility that the terms which Go- Colonel SIBTHORP wished to know when the noble as perfect as possible. He had often heard that from the
vernment might think proper to' offer might not be such lord the member for Middlesex intended to proceed with late Lord Congleton, under whose auspices upwards of a
as the shipping interest would be disposed to accept, his bill for the abolition of the duty on attorneys' certi- million was expended on a road between London and Holy-
but if such were the case he anticipated no inconvenience ficates. head, which was now perfectly useless. The late Sir R.
either to the colonies, or to the mother country, because Lord R. GROSVENOR said he would be prepared to Peel, when he permitted the Chester and Holyhead Rail-
give an answer to-morrow. way Company to become proprietors of steamers, said very
the intercourse between England and Australia had COMMISSIONS FOR CANTERBURY AND properly that Dublin, not Holyhead, was the terminus of
grown so rapidly and become so extensive within the HULL. the line.. Under the present system, all the convenience
last few months, that even if the Government were that Irish members derived on the road from London to
Captain BELLEW asked whether commissions of in-
obliged to resort to the act of Parliament, which enables Holyheael, was lost in the sea passage between that port
them to employ any ship sailing from this country to quiry had issued for Canterbury and Hull, in conformity and Dulolin. There was one packet that sailed at •
convey letters, there was little doubt that there would with the joint addresses of both houses • and if not, how o'clock in the evening, and gentlemen knew what a timesix
soon would such commissions be issued'? that was for sailing in a winter evening, with probably a
be scarcely any inconvenience and delay. In the course
Lord J. RUSSELL replied, that the commissions wife and. family on board. (Hear, hear, .) Another one
of three months of the present year the number of ves- had not been appointed, but he would do so as soon as sailed at two in the morning, and a third at six, and that
eels that had left the English ports for Australia was no possible. was all the accommodation afforded to peers and members
less than 70 a month, many of them having performed ST. CLEMENT DANE'S GRAVEYARD. of Parliament whose duties called them frequently to Lon-
previous voyages at a great rate of speed, and some at a
greater even than steamers. Therefore, if the worst Lord D. STUART gave notice that on Thursday don. "% let Temple-bar was described to be to timid fe-
should arise, and the experiment which Government was next he would put a question to the Secretary for the •
males to welling in London, the seapassage from Holyhead
next
was to Irish travellers—four hours and a half unmitigated
about to make with a view of alleviating the pressure of Home Department in reference to some burials which dirt, diseomfort, and some danger. (Hear, hear.) There
the heavy expense in the contracts, there need be no took place in this graveyard ion Sunday last, notwith- was no day communication with Ireland, a want which
fear on the part of his noble friend and the public that standingi a late order of Council had directed it to be had rem ntly given rise to a lamentable accident. The
any serious inconvenience would arise either to this closed. (Hear.) Prince Arthur started lately from Holyhead with a
country or to Australia. THE BUDGET. largo number of passengers, amongst whom were two
The Earl of HARD WICKE said it was supposed that Lord J. RUSSELL moved the suspension of a stand- gentlemen and their wives. The night being stormy
by a system of contracts vessels might be employed which ing order, which requires a notice of committee of ways the ladies went to bed, there being no similar ac-
might be armed in time of war. This induced a larger and means for Thursday to be given on the previous commoieation for gentlemen. When about half seas
kind of vessel to be built by the contractors, but it Friday. over the Prince Arthur was run into by a schooner,
turned out that the owners of the vessels had not pre- Agreed to. and her starboard paddle-box stove in. In the confusion
pared them for armament, and they were incapable of INDIAN TERRITORIES. a general rush took place, the ladies rushed on deck,
and tho husbands with natural anxiety rushed in search
being armed. In no instance was there any preparation Lord J. RUSSELL said, yesterday he promised to of them. Unfortunately in the confusion and darkness of
made for the arming of these vessels or to see whether state when the Government measure on the subject of the night, a lamentable mistake took place, and the gentle-
able of bearing such armament. The conse- India would be disclosed to the house, and he was now men e r changed wives. (Laughter.) High words, and
they were cap
quence was, that if it had been thought necessary to arm prepared to fulfil that promise. It was highly important then blows followed, and the captain of the ship had a
them, they would have totally failed. He thought the that the budget should be disposed of as speedily as pos- double difficulty—that of clearing his vessel from the
great object of these steamers should be not to approach Bible, and it was proposed not to take any measure of schooner, and of separating the gentlemen who had been
mis-
but escape from ships of war. They should be by no means importance until the house had got rid of that question, thus wrathfully excited. (Great laughter.) . Now this
armed ships, but should be built for speed and safety. He It was expected that it would be finally disposed of in take wa a all occasioned by the darkness of the night, and
did not think as the case now stood that there was any dif- the ladi es being in their night dresses. (Continued laugh-
the course of a month, and therefore after the Whitsun- ter.) S eeing, then, that this was a matter that materially
ficulty in making arrangements for the future. When the tide recess his right hon. friend the President of the affected important sections of the community, he trusted
fine was paid the contract was at an end. He believed Board of Control would announce when the measure that tat ) inquiry would be conceded.
the fines altogether would not be more than 200,000/., would be brought forward. It would be fixed for some Mr. ITANCE said that the hours of departure were not
and he believed that by throwing the whole of the con- day between th 20th and 30th of May. mule:bid by the contractors.
VRE; WEN thought th it an alteration in the times
tracts up, that amount might be saved the first year.
Mr...
VINEGAR DUTIES. of departure would be advisable.
Earl GREY considered that a great mistake had been BERNARD said that Ireland was gradually oh-
made in not sufficiently reducing the cost at which letters Mr. FAGAN wished to ask the Chancellor of the Lord
SALAD railwa communication all over the country, and
Exchequer whether, in the event of foreign vinegar being t g y
were sent to the colonies. The charge of one shillingpoint. All
would soon have it to the extreme southernmost
admitted into this county duty free, it is the intention of
each letter was so high, that letters were only sent upon that w•wanted to complete the benefit was perfect cop-
Government
Government to remove the excise restrictions on the
special occasions. If they charged a penny per half- munication with England, an object which he thought
manufacture of the article, and to allow a drawback on would be forwarded by this committee, which should,
ounce, the same as in this country, he believed the
the malt used by the manufacturer, so as to enable him therefc re, have his support.
freight would amount to about 300/. a ton.
Viscount CANNING said lie believed that paying to enter into free competition with the foreign maker. Mr. .GOULD said that day transit was an indispensable
to do 21
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was • conditon of high speed. Vessels might be built.
in .
the fines would by no means relieve the Government ofimminent risk their
not in a condition to answer the question at the present miles a n hour, but there would be .
with
should contracts. In regard to the reduction of postage, it in dark nights at right angles with
should be remembered that the reduction to one penny moment, but he was engaged enquiring into the whole crossin gat that speed
1. (Hear, hear.)
in this country had been attended with success, because circumstances of the case, and when the enquiry was i the wleile traffic of the chamie
Mr. MANGLES complained of the conduct of Govern-
of the increased opportunities of sending letters, butthat closed he would give the hon. gentleman an answer
' meat to the Chester and Holyhead Company in this matter,
circumstance did not apply to the colonies, where they THE BUDGET. 1 in having forced them to build a bntg© at
a cost of a
had to deal with ships and steamers, whereas here they In reply to Mr. DISRAELI,tl
subsequently
I million, and three steam-boats, and having t
had to deal with railway companies. Lord J. RUSSELL stated that it was intended to ! given the sea contract to the City .
of Dublin Company a a
Irtnced
he public wished for en .
In answer to questions from Earl TALBOT, proceed with the debate on the budget on Thursday. ruinously low rate. If
it.
h te of remuneration.
Viscount CANNING said it was not intended that THE CONSTABULARY FORCE. speed, they must give a lig er rii,
~ s
Aftf3r a few words from Captain JOIN E ,
they should limit themselves to one route in their tom- Mr. RICE then rose to move for a select committee
Mr. WHITESIDE said he understood that vessels
munication with Australia. With regard to the second to consider the expediency of adopting a more uniform
I be built to do the passage in 2.1 j hours.
question, at this moment there was a proposition for the system of police in England and Wales. The advantage The motion was then agreed to.
reduction of the postage with France, from her Majesty's of a uniform system of police in the metropolis and the
NATIONAL EDUCATION IN IRELAND'to in
fora select committee .
Government, to which he received no answer, but to large towns of the country could not be overrated, and The HAMILTON moved.t'onal system of education
which her Majesty's Government was perfectly willing when the house remembered the unbiassed opinion which '
. quire into the working of the,
ascertaining
how far the in- I
to accede if the French Government was willing. foreigners had given in favour of the system, there could 1 in Ir &and, with a viewofletter of 1830 had been followed '
THE ART OF NAVIGATION. be no doubt that it was the best that could be adopted. strut View in Mr. Stanley's
the Commissioner or in the practical
Lord WROTTESLEY then rose, in pursuance of Strangers in the metropolis experienced no diffi
...
culty in ' or de parted from by
e n of the system, and
Iwhether and to what extent a
obtaining information of particular localities from the opc,a Lo
d combined education had been attained ; and also
notice, "to direct the attention of the house to a corres-
pondence between the United States Government, her police, while the addition
to the force being of great unite or
by any further extension of the Com-
to impure whether, .
doubt the conscien • tious objections
Majesty's utility in this respect there could be no . ,
yaers' rules, or otherwise,
Majesty's Government, and the Royal Society, in re-had miss' people to the present system could
this the public peace was never better kept than it of ra: my of the Irish be
ference to a comprehensive scheme for improving theif t more extensive and national.
art of navigation, in which the United States Go- speech, supported by statistics he urged
Now most of the rural districts were entirely without In a long
vernment have requested the co-operation of her Ma- such a service as this. True there was a kind of localexisted between the nate ; •
issue of fact .
stem
p. e interested, as to
eat 's Government." He said the plan he had in constabulary force, but the interests and prejudices whether the existing. sys m were, first, united •
, secondly,
view would add to their stock of knowledge in the de- of those who at present held the office of parish ss p
- rural ; and thirdly neutral, which
latter he contended
itnNVI not, but Roman Catholic , addi
partments of meteorology and hydrography to an extent constables totally incapacitated them from perform-ing that the model
which it was hardly possible to overestimate.- The United lag the duties of an efficient police fore:-
' They sc o( s
h sl were net models, and the. e r ports were
States having having sanctioned the adoption of the plan in „
exercised no controul or supervision
in over public- tor'is He said that he had brought forward the motion in
their own t their duty ties respect, no o3tile spirit, but it was time that
count had had, with the view of making it as houses, but entirely neglected hthe unhappy contro-
effective as *bl • • versy should cease, and he thou
possi e, invited the co-operation of the grin- and the consequence was that robberies and depreda- t that the committee
cipal maritime nations,might devise some mode of settlement,
and especially this country. The tions were constantly being committed in rural a
re
ng
wish in Ireland. _ for which there was
proposition having
been made to our Government, it bad districts with impunity. (Hear, hear.) Why, accord- He accused Lord Aberdeen in
referred by them to the Rol S ' d th ing to the confession of an unhappy man whoobservations on the subject of d• ' '
ocietan to 0 of
British Associationsame kind indifferentism of li • esinng the
for the Advancement of and was executed a few years ago at Maidstone, it would
Science, union. of Radicals and Conservativesre gion as characterised a
it had received the '
sanction of both those bodies. It was appear that, within the space of three years, he was
true that this project had G - HOUSE OF COMMONS—(YESTERDAY.) , Mr. WIGRAM seconded in politics.
not been adopted by the o concerned in seventy robberies, for not one of which 1 - the motion,
vernment. It Was promoters of the in ui rernarkine that the
not entertained b the last Govern- SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock. was he or his accomplices ever brought to justice. But bander which h qry merely wished to remove the
ment, and it was not et ' y The e any parent might •
n ertamed by the present Govern- NEW MEMBERS. these seventy robberies formed only a portion of those 'of relic in the schools, interpose to the teaching
ment. He confessed his
surprise that a plan of this 1 for Athlone, lie had perpetrated in the course of his life ; but as they ' tole, ration adopted in England anding why the rule of
simple and important nature had bandied about 1 Mr. KEOGH took the oaths and his seat
of. •
been
always an . could not be applied to Ire-
from department to department for fourteen
months, and onhis
I managed escape detection. The country expects, and ' Sir JOHN YOUNG asserted
at this moment they were hardly more advanced than Solicitor General of Ireland.
and his eat for Kneres- rightly expects, an efficient system of nationalpolice.Lon I Aberdeen a'd the promptness with which
they were at the beginning. The late Government bad Mr. WOODD also took the oaths
It hi o inion that 1 d h othmaand •p i respect to the religious opinions of
some claims on the gratitude of men of science, and he ' orough, he having been declared duly elected by the was sp.n en s should be put to the pre- •, said that he
no Etpult of indiffer t* .
himself approached this subject in
ell Ism. The math. and only object of

7

:P-23

the promoters of this motion was the subversion of the na-
tional system. There was nothing, he said, in the original
instructions to make Scriptural extracts part of the secular
system of education in the national schools. If any com-
plaint were made against any individual school, or any
number of schools, it should occasion the most rigid in-
quiry. The system was opposed by the majority of the
clergy of the Established Church, and by a diminishing
i
number of the gentry belonging to t ; and he would speak
of their scruples with all respect, but could not admit that
they made a claim for toleration, but rather the reverse.
The Roman Catholics had a conscientious objection to the
use of the Scriptures, without note or comment, by
young persons. (Hear, hear.) The people of Ireland
were exceedingly alive to the advantages of education,
and would make any sacrifice to give it to their chil-
dren. He enlarged upon the various influences under
which the poor Irish might be induced to send their
children to schools of which they disapproved, and
he argued that the Protestant who demanded the right of
private judgment should be ready to give it to others. He
sketched the working of the system, which had been 21.
years in existence. He said that out of the immense num-
bers of children that had attended the schools not one
proved case of proselytism had taken place, and iron sta-
tistics he sought to show that the Roman Catholics had
not had an endue share of advantages. In generally an-
swering the arguments on the other side, Sir J. Young said
that it would be most advantageous if more money were
laid out upon these schools ; and he bore a high tribute to
their excellent teachers, and especially commended the
school-books, which had become a national literature, and
for one of which he read an extract which he described as
imbued with morality and true religions feeling. He dwelt
feelingly upon the admirable results of the schools, which
had attained their main object ; and he expressed an ear-
nest hope that the house would persevere in upholding a
system which tended to elevate the whole of the humbler
portion of the Irish nation.
Mr. NAPIER reminded Sir J. Young that he had not
shown the object of the motion to be to subvert the na-
tional system—an object which Mr. Hamilton had expressly
disavowed. He denied that the claim put forward was
not founded on the principles of the Reformation. The
rules of the National Board restricted the use of the Scrip-
tures, which were made an integral and essential part of
education in this country, and this was an offence to the
conscience of clergymen. He pursued at some length the
contrast between the rules applied to English and Irish
schools ;
he complained of the injustice of adapting them
t°twoo-niy a
thirdsp
;ortaniodnmofainthtaeinpionpgutlhataitone,dutchaotiiiognh
should
dituhtainyge
no other basis than the Word of God, he challenged the
inquiry, which was all the motion sought.
Lord MONCK opposed the motion, believing that in-
quiry was unnecessary, or the late Government should
have instituted it. Though sensible of the importance of
the religious element in education, he was aware that there
existed a voracious appetite for education in Ireland, and
the national system had been originally established upon
the two principles, of non-interference with religious pre-
judices, and combined instruction of persons of different
religious persuasions. Conscientious objections, though
they should govern individual conduct, ought not to con-
trol the administration of a nation's grant; the objections
should be reasonable as well as conscientious.
Mr. LUCAS, as far as he understood it, understood that
the noble lord, and' the members of the Government gene-
rally, had two opinions on the subject of religious educa-
tion—one an English opinion, applicable to English educa-
tion • another an Irish opinion, applicable .to Irish educa-
tion.' He confessed that he preferred, of the two authorities
spoken out of the same lips, the English to the Irish
opinion. He thought the opinion that hon. and right
hon. gentlemen entertained as applied to education in
England'was sound, that the opinion they entertained as
regarded Irish education was unsound ; and he could not
understand why there should be a different system for the
poor in Inlaid from that which they recognised as right,
true, and sound in this country. But he believed that
what existed in Ireland existed only, and was tolerated
only, because it was in name one thing and in practice
another. He believed that the national system of educa-
tion in Ireland was, not in form but in substance, a sepa-
rate system of education. He believed that it was tole-
rated and existed only because it was a separate system,
and that if by any calamity it could become a united sys-
tem, it would either fall in pieces or be productive of the
greatest evils to the people of Ireland. (Hear, hear.)
He agreed with a very great part of what had
fallen from honourable gentlemen on that (the Opposition)
side of the house, but had a great difficulty in agreeing
with the motion they had laid on the table of the house,
because he was not able to satisfy himself of the mo-
tives they had in view. As to the motion itself, it had his
hearty assent, so far as he understood its meaning ; but as
to the object of its supporters—which, if he misunderstood
it, he should be glad to have explained—he could not Rel
perfectly clear. He never would put himself in the posi-
tion of refusing the members of the Established Church
what he claimed for the members of his own—the right of
having the poor of their own communion educated in the
tenets of their own Church. He should be ashamed to put
himself in that position ; and if they, alleging on any
ground that the system of mixed education was not satis-
factory to them, wished to have the system of separate
education instead, he was, and should be on all occasions,
ready to support their claim ; because otherwise he did. not
know„how he could reasonably support his own. For him-
self, he felt no confidence in the management of the Na.
tional Board. He regarded it as a system which depended
absolutely upon the hands into which its administration
might fall whether it would work for good or for evil.
tHe had heard rumours about the present Archbishop of
Dublin having threatened to resign his seat at the board
if certain things were not done according tii". his wishes,
and his own' books were not allowed to be used, at the
schools. It had alio been rumoured that the„to,te Lord
Chancellor Blackburne had actually a resolution before
the board, which was awaiting the result of the delibera-
tions in the House of Commons., There were, there-
fore, the two facts before the house-the threat of the
Archbishop of Dublin and of the terd Chancellor to re-
sign, as the first step towards an alteration in the manage-
ment, if certain books were not allowed to be introduced—
and the inevitable consequences, if the withdrawal of the
great bulk of Catholic support from the National Board,
and the entire destruction of the system, if the use of these
were pcmitted. What he wished to see was, the house
lending its assistance to a separate system of education.
He was opposed to this so-called united system, believing
it to be highly injurious ; and entertaining this opinion h e
would not be led to sanction any resolution if it was not
made perfectly clear to his mind that the purpose which it
contemplated was really intended, and was to be fairly
e wried out.
Lord NAAS thought that the hon. member was not jus-
tified in making personal attack upon a noble lord in another
place, without notice of his intention to do se, and from
which the noble lord had no opportunity of defending him-
self.

Mr. LUCAS stated that ho had on the previous day in-
formed the hon. mover of the motion of his intention to
refer to Lord Clancarty.
Lord NAAS was not aware that any such notice had
been given, but still thought that such an attack upon a noble-
man who had contributed so much to the welfare and com-
fort, both temporal and spiritual, of those around him,
ought not to have been introduced in a debate of this kind.
(Hear, hear.) No doubt the nobleman referred to had used
his influence from time to time in the propagation of those
principles which he believed to be right ; but he (Lord
Naas) believed that no single instance could be adduced in
which that nobleman had brought any other than the legi-
timate influence of argument and persuasion to bear upon
his tenantry, and ho utterly disbelieved that any undue
exercise of his powers as a landlord, such as keeping what
the hon. member had called " the hanging gale of rent"
over his tenants, or any other course of conduct which
would be reprobated by every honest man, had ever been
pursued by that noble lord. He believed the time had
now arrived for a full and complete inquiry into the suc-
cessful working of the system, and for ascertaining whe-
ther the schools in existence fairly represented the boasted
system of combined education. He believed that the
principal reason why the national system had obtained so
strong a hold upon the affections of the people was be-
cause it was not a " combined system." (Hear.) The sta-
tistics of the schools clearly proved that the system was
not in fact a dombinci one. In the month of March,
1852, the number of children in various schools was 491,927.
Of this number 24,684 belonged to the Established Church,
424,717 to the Roman Catholics, 40,618 to the Presbyte-
rians, 1,908 to Dissenters, and 1,091 whose religion was not
specified. In point of fact the children of the Established
Church were to those of the Roman Catholics in the pro-
portion of 24 to 424. Out of 4,705 schools, 2,728 were un-
der the patronage of Roman Catholic priests, and 147 under
that of the clergy of the Established Church, while only
eight schools existed in all Ireland which were under the
joint management of Protestants and Roman Catholics. He
disclaimed altogether any intention of obstructing the pro-
gress of the present system of national education. There
was a great deal in the working of the system which might
be safely inquired into. The progress of education in a
great number of the schools was not satisfactory, and it was
not progressing in the manner which it ought to do. The
model schools were conducted in a superior way; but tbe
idea that they were to be taken as a fair specimen of the
He
schools throughout the country was most figlacious.
cordially supported tho motion of his hon. believingfri?nq,
a ho did that it contained no attack on the existinn, system.
(Hear, hear.)
Sir J. GRAHAM—Having been associated with the Earl
of Derby in the Administration of EL rl Grey when hentbe
system of nationel education was founded—havingalways
taken the deepest interest in its success— having amidst
every variety of circumstances uniformly supportedsatdoimn,t,--
and differing from the noble lord who has just
and thinking that there is an attack, hardly concealed,
upon the system itself, and believing that system to be in
danger—l should not feel that I discharged my duty if I
failed to address a few words to the house on the present
occasion. (Hear.) I was anxious to hear from the noble
lord some unequivocal declaration with reference to the
Pertinent question put by the member for Meath.
(Hear, hear.) I wished to hear it distir cAy stated whether
sr not there was on the oppcslte side of the house, and on
the part of those who have promoted this motion, a desire
to obtain for the Church Education Society in Ireland a
separate grant ill aid of their funds. I know not what may
be their intention, but I am sure that at no very distant
period those who promoted the motions which have been
brought forward on former occasions, did entertain that
wish and did not conceal it. (Hear.) Now, 'with reference
to this inquiry ,it is absolutely necessary to co nsider what has
been urged by those who have already taken a part in this
debate. I think I was not wrong when I heard, or thought
I heard, the hon. member for the University of Dublin
declare to-night that the time had arrived when it was ne-
cessary to abandon the phantom, as he called it, of mixed
education in Ireland. (Hear, hear.) Surely the hon.
gentleman used that expression ; and if he did use it there
can be no doubt of the object and motive which actuated
him in bringing this question forward. (Hear, hear.)
Then the hon. and learned gentleman the member for
the University of Cambridge, who seconded the motion, as
I understood him, put in a claim on the part of the paro-
chial clergy of the Established Church in Ireland, that it
was not only their duty but their desire to administer re-
ligious education to the whole of their flock, the whole of
the parishioners of their respectiveparishes. Now probably
the declaration to which I have just adverted may weigh
in support of the argument of the honourable member for
Meath. He says he is most anxious, in any vote which he
shall give, that the interests of the poor of Ireland shall be
considered. In resisting this motion, lam actuated by
that same motive. (Hear.) It is for the sake of the
_po.oF.
of Ireland, for the sake of the great body of the./?seogem'
Ireland, that I am most sincerely anxious that
of mixed education should be reserved. Ice
th main, con-
facts of the case, and I do contend that
sptem of mixed
h e nge the
sidering the circumstances of Ireland,
d
education has succeeded to the fiLlaqhwehriechareits in
nutthhoarst
could have expected. (H. ,
educated under this system,
country 520,000 children Of