The Sun.
London, England, 1853-03-04 00:00:00

his noble and learned friend of forming a correct
judgment upon the matter, and that they could not
do better than accept his decision with respect to it.
Their lordships would not however, he felt assured,
be influenced by any such reasoning, and would not
reject a measure which came before them with so many
recommendations in its favour, merely because it was
opposed by his noble and learned friend, however high
might be their respect for his abilities and attainments.
But what were the actual objections to the bill. It was
said, in the first place, that it was impracticable, because
they should have enormous buildings and a vast staff of
officers to receive and arrange the immense masses of
deeds they would have to deal with. But that diffi-
culty, like many others, when fairly looked in the face,

became sensibly- diminished. The size of the building and

the number of officers they would require would, of
course, depend on the number of deeds to be regis-
tered. Now, he thought that that number had been
greatly over-estimated by his noble and learned friend.
But, even if his estimate were a correct one, there
would be no insuperable difficulty in providing a re-
ceptacle for these deeds in a country in which the
Crystal Palace had been raised in the course of five
or six months. The commissioners of 1829-30 had
inquired into that question of the probable number of
the deeds to be registered ; and they had found a
means of forming a reliable estimate upon the point.
There had already been in force a registration of
deeds in Yorkshire, although an imperfect one ; and of
course the proportion between the area of Yorkshire
and the area of England afforded a good test of the
proportion which the number of deeds registered in
Yorkshire would bear to the number that would be
registered in all England. The area of Yorkshire
was about 3,800,000 acres • the area of England and
Wales was about 37,100000 ; and as the number
of deeds registered in Yorkshire in the year 1829
was 6,900, it followed that if a proportionate number
of deeds should be registered in England and Wales, they
would amount to a little over 67,000, or say 70,000. It

was true that a portion of Yorkshire consisted of waste
land ; but Wales presented, on the other side, a propor-
tionate amount of land of an equally worthless descrip-
tion. Then, again, they might arrive at an estimate
upon that subject by taking the population in Yorkshire
and the population in England and Wales. In the year
1821 the population of Yorkshire had amounted to
1,200,000 souls, and the population of England and
Wales had amounted to 12,220,000 ; and those propor-
tions would give to England and Wales 70,265 deeds.
The commissioners who had last inquired into the sub-
ject had come to the conclusion that the number would
probably amount at present to 80,000. But he would
take it at 100,000 ; and he would ask whether that was
a number so great as to prove unmanageable. Mr.
From had entered into a very elaborate calculation upon
that point. He found that deeds usually consisted of
two skins of parchment, that a certain number of them,
when made up into nine folds, could be put into a box of
a certain size, and that in a house with a frontage of
three windows, and of the ordinary depth, accommoda-
tion could be found for all the deeds of this country for
the next sixty years. But that calculation went on the
supposition that the deeds were to be registered, while it
was the copies only that were to be registered, and those
copies would not occupy half as much space as the deeds

themselves. There was other evidence to show the
practicability of dealing with that case. Mr. Trevor,
the comptroller of legacy duties, had been examined
before the commissioners • and had informed them that
in Somerset-house they had copies of all the wills and
administrations in the United Kingdom, which had been
furnished to them for purposes connected with the taxa-
tion of the country. These wills amounted for England
and Wales to about2s,ooo, and for Ireland and Scotland

to little more than 400 ; making in all, in round numbers,
30,000. Those copies of wills were elaborately endorsed,
and careful abstracts of about 20,000 of them were made,
while the keeping of them formed but a small portion of
the business transacted by 70 clerks, a large number,
certainly, but not a very formidable number. Mr.
Trevor further informed the commissioner that they never
experienced at Somerset-house the slightest difficulty in
making out any will they might wish to have produced.
In his (the Lord Chancellor's) opinion, that evidence
went far to show that the difficulty to which he was
then referring was not by any means one which
it would be impossible to overcome. Another ob-
jection to the bill was that it would lead to
an exposure of titles. But he had already stated
that he considered that it to be no objection at all. But
in order to meet the wishes of some parties upon that
point, a means was provided by which they might keep
their deeds a secret from the world. That object was
effected by enabling them to imitate the mode in which
stock was, transferred in the name of one or more trus-
tees. Under the present bill parties might give to trus-
t tees the same power over their lands which were given
Ito trustees over funded property. It was true that the
trustees might be disposed to cheat the parties confiding
in them ; but he believed that such a disposition would
very rarely exist, and in order to guard as much as pos-
sible against its evil consequences, that bill would con-
tain a provision under which an inhibition might be ob-
tained for the purpose of stopping a gross breach of
trust by a sale of the property. But it was essential to
the working of the system of registration that no que.i-
tion of notice should be admitted, for if a notice were
once made necessary all the advantages of a registration
would be lost. A further objection to the measure was
the expense which it was supposed it would entail.
Upon that point, too, he believed that in some quarters
considerable misapprehension prevailed. There could
certainly be no great expense in getting a copy made of
a deed and in transmitting that copy to London. Then,
again, it was calculated that the expense of the registra-
tion ffice would amount to about 20,0001. a-year, and
that expense might be defrayed by a charge of 4s. on
each deed, supposing the number of deeds to be 100,000
—and as that was to be an average charge, it might be
increased in the case of documents which involved large
amounts of property ; and the poorer classes of persons
effecting registration need be subjected to hardly any
payment at all. He would conclude by moving the se-
cond reading of the bill.

Lord ST. LEONARD'S presented a petition from the
managers of the Provincial Law Association, praying that
the bill might not pass their lordships' house. The noble
and learned lord, who was almost inaudible in the gallery,
then proceeded to say, that he rose with great regret to
oppose the bill of his:noble and learned friend who had just
sat down. His apology for taking that course was, that
the measure then under the notice of their lordships had
received from him (Lord St. Leonard's) during the last 23
years a most strenuous opposition. He had, both in and
out of Parliament, been most decided and consistent in
protesting against it. Both Houses of Parliament had
frequently listened to very elaborate statements in favour
of that bill, but nobody had as yet come forward to state
the objections to which, in his opinion, it was open. He
therefore desired to lay before their lordships the reasons
which had influenced him in coming—with reference to
that measure—to conclusions quite the contrary of those at
which his noble and learned friend upon the woolsack had
arrived. Ho had been rather surprised to hear his own want
of coincidence in the views of his noble and learned friend
mentioned as forming one ground of objection to the mea-
sure. If he (Lord St. Leonard's) asked their lordships not
to read the bill a second time, it would be only upon prin-
ciples which had the sanction of reason. Upon those prin-
ciples, and those only, he desired the support of members
upon his own side of the house ; and he felt assured, not-
withstanding all that had passed upon previous occasions
when the objections to the bill had not been put forward,
that upon those principles, if clearly established, noble
lords opposite would lend him their support. Ho had
this difficulty to encounter at the outset—the bill had, in
effect, passed their lordships' house, and therefore noble
lords, if they should upon the occasion upon which' he was
addressing them vote against it, would appear to be incon-
sistent, inasmuch as they would be opposing, by such a
course, a measure of which they had at a former period ap-
proved. He was sure, however, that the circumstance to
which he referred would in no degree influence the decision
to which their lordships would come. The bill which his
noble and learned friend had introduced had been originally
introduced by the real property commissioners. Those
commissioners had, in their investigation upon the sub-
ject, the advantage of their services of Mr. Duval ; and
if a bill could ever be expected to come forward in a
perfect shape, it was that which had that evening been
laid upon the table of the house. Now, in 1830, the mea-
sure had been introduced into the other house for the first
time, and it was a second time introduced at the com-
mencement of the year 1831. At that period the bill not
only received the sanction of the other house, but the table
of that house was loaded with petitions against it. It, had
been again introduced into tho House or Commons at the
close of the session of 1831, and had been submitted for
the fourth time to the consideration of that house in 1833.
On that occasion it had gone to a division, and 82 votes
had been recorded against it, while there were
forward 9 in
its favour. The bill had again been brought in
the year 1834, and was rejected upon the second rear"ig
by a majority of 92. Their lordships would, from • these
their lordships, to
see
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which he entertained to the
the country, the objections
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their(gea
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fionuqnuidr.efoinrtootohseeburdens
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era
measure°.
pneoniindtedbeto
the subject, and that bill was
shortly afterwards dropped. The Government, however,
ll s the had, recommended
Uponward
in thatthe
otherreco recommendation
upon ion a bill had been brought for-
t
of which Lord John Russell s
whathe
g consideration,
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Thede ra
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had of
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brought, W el
after repeated postponements and great
un-
der the notice of the House of Commons, d
tand
a as it
been originally framed by the Government t
lerdshi
referred to a select committee. That committee had made
mhaadea
a report which entirely destroyed the measure
it powerless. But, not to trespass upon their
s first introduc-
tion ; that it had on each occasion been rejected and,
time,
submittedhe eshigohultdtinisheosrtiolypsatralitaemtehnattstinheeemiteasure had beenp
conseqtuo consequently,
it
y, thianttaollathlaewir. efforts had dheadmitted,
been found
mea-
sure calculated to do the greatest service, provided it could
be made to work ; but it was impossible to reduce it to
anything like working order, and it must, therefore prove
insuffi-
cienta
powerless in effecting the objects which its framers had in
view. There were many men, whose opinion it was that
the measure would prove to be a snare, and that it would
introduce into the system of transfer of land greater con-
tentions than had ever yet been known to prevail. The ob-
ject was to alleviate the burdens of the landed interest, but
the proposed measure would not lessen those burdens one
farthing, and never could. It was one of the most fortu-
nate of circumstances for the holders of landed property
that the bill bad not passed into law, but remained still
unsettled for the consideration of Parliament. Their
lordships had been told by his noble and learned friend upon
the woolsack that for centuries it had been the desire of the
most learned and able men in this country to have a
registry of deeds.. If such were the case, why was it, ho
would ask, that no measure had ever been passed for carry-
, ing out the views which those individuals were said to
have entertained? The system of registering had been
tried in Yorkshire, in Middlesex, in Ireland, and in dif-
ferent shapes in Scotland, and what had been the result ?
The result had been failure in every instance. It had been
asserted that the bill would afford safety to purchasers ;
that it would prevent fraud, perjury, and what was called