The Sun.
London, England, 1853-07-23 00:00:00

FAIRS IN IRELAND.

Mr. BUTT asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland what
proceedings had been taken by the commissioners of in-
quiry into fairs and markets in Ireland, appointed by the
warrant of the 29th of September, 1852 ; whether y
had yet made any report ; and whether their report, when
together with the evidence taken by them, would
he communicated to the house ; and whether it was
in-
tended to introduce any measure on the subject in the pre-
sent session?
Sir J. YOUNG said the report would be printed in a
few days.
DI SMISSA.L'OF TETE JUDGES OF KIDDER
ADAWLUT.
in
Sir C. WOOD, reply t
c, Mr. OTWAY, said that he had
g
io
ne
egdr o na nn
sdwtehn.a nt
1 ae
helaudesnt nt
h ua
on a previous occasion tletchl
this subject, simply o_tt
read the papers. Ifs might now say that, having made
himself acquainted with the causes of dismissal in both
cases, he had come to the conclusion that it would not
tend to raise the character of the Sudder Court, if be re-
.seibAles
arsegyaertdtoed theesy
stored these two judges toit
,t.,ll.aes biemnepho
depended upon his readiness anti
'arges which he had• t
ability
mustStins be done. 3ftdaoirti.
substantiate
made against
persons in high office at Bombay.
COURSE OF PUBLIC BUSINESS.
Mr. DISRAELI said it would be desirable to know
what the noble lord intended to be the course of public
business ?

Lord J. RUSSELL bad intended to explain this on
moving the adjournment of the house till Monday. The
CI-overnintNat had not allowed bills to be brought in, and
he hoped hon. members would not press measures of their
own requiring so much consideration as to render it un-
likely that they would be passed this session. There was
one bill—the Education Bill—with reference to which he
had been asked a question more than once; he had now
to state that ho was exceedingly anxious to pass the

Charitable Trusts Bill, and as he thought great benefit
would arise from passing that measure, he should be
afraid of interfering with it by occupying
a night with
the Education Bill, and should uot, therefore, move the
second reading of that bill on the day appointed. With
regard to the course of other business, the house would re-
collect ths:4lsere had been three very important measures
which had titian a very considerable time in discussion—
the one, the InCome Tax in its present shape; the other,
the Succession Day; and the third, which stood for com-
mittee that night, the India Bill. He was happy to think
the time was not far distant when the third of these bills
would be considered in the other house. (Hear, hear.)
He hoped on Monday week, the Ist August, to fix the
committee of supply, and, as regarded other business, lie
hoped the house, considering the lateness of the session,
would allow orders of the day to take precedence on Tues-
days as well as on other days. (Hear, hear.) There must
also be several bills fixed for Wednesdays which there was
not a chance of carrying to a successful issue this session,
and in these cases he hoped hon. gentlemen would give way.
He should move, on Monday next, that after the let of
August orders of the day take precedence of motions; and
should now conclude at once by moving that the house at
its rising do adjourn till Monday next.
SITTING OF PARLIAMENT.
Mr. H. DRUMMOND said, after the remarks which
had been made by the noble lord, it was quite clear there
would be no other opportunity of bringing under the con-
sideration of the house the subject of which he had given
notice, and in order to save time he would at once rush in
medics res, and state the conclusion at which he had ar-
rived before giving his reasons. (Laughter.) His object
was twofold—first of all, to get Parliament to meet at a
more convenient season —(cheers)—and, secondly, to shorten
the duration of the session of Parliament. (Cheers.) He
believed it was universally admitted that were it not for
the voting of the money they would scarcely ever be re.
quired to sit at all, and that no Government or Minister
in his senses would assemble Parliament but for that pur-
pose. (Laughter.) And why was the Minister obliged to
summon Parliament in this manner ? Simply because the
money was given to him only for a certain time. The
time with which the Minister had been entrusted with
the money was up to Easter next. Now, supposing
the supply had been extended to Christmas, it cer-
tainly would not have been necessary to meet in Feb-
ruary, but they might then have met in October. Now
he did not see why the time of making up the public ac-
ccunts should not be changed. He should like to know
why, whilst every house of business in the world made
up its accounts at Christmas, the public accounts
could not be made up to Christmas. The chief officer ap-
pointed to manage these accounts said, "In former times
the annual accounts of both receipts and expenditure were
made up at various periods—the 25th December, the 31st
December, the sth June, the 30th March, and other periods
at the caprice of the Government We are scarcely better
off at the present day. It will be impossible to prepare a
completely detailed account of the whole receipts and ex
penditure of the kingdom, as in France, until a day is
fixed for making up all the accounts." The truth of the
matter was that in old times the accounts were made up
according to the ecclesiastical and not the civil year. The
persons appointed to keep the accounts, being clerks, natn
rely made them up to the same period that the ecclesias
tical accounts were made up. If the accounts were made up
to Christmas the house might meet six weeks or two months
before that time, and then hon. members would be able to
live in town in the cold weather, and in the country in
the fine weather. (Hear, hear.) Instead of which, like
most irrational people, and like no other people in the
world, and not like ourselves in past times, we spent the
summer in Loudon' and the winter in the country. (Laugh-
ter and hear, bean) There was another point to which
he wished to call the attention of the house. The noble
lord (Lord J. Russell) two or three years ago decided on
the appointment of another Secretary of State, coupling
that scheme with the suppression of the Lord-Lieutenantcy
of Leland. Now be (Mr. H. Drummond) objected to
suppression of the Lord-Lientenantcy, believing such a
matter ought rather to be determined by the feelings of
the people than by any abstract doctrines. But at that
time the noble lord stated that the business of the coun-
try had so much increased that there was a demand for
another Secretary of State. To show how the business
of public offices had increased, he might state that,
whilst in the year 1838 the sum paid for letters was
38,000/., this year it amounted to 125,030/. This showed
that there were now nearly four times as many letters to
answer as there wore in 1838, and it was in evidence be-
fore the committee that there was hardly time to read the
letters, and that the secretaries had to sign the answers as
fast as they possibly could. (Laughter.) The Govern-
ment, however, threw a considerable portion of work on
themselves. The reception of so many deputations must
materially interfere with the business of the Ministers of
State. Then, again, their attendance was required in com-
mittees. The number of accounts called for by Parlia-
ment was annually increasing. Beyond that, the time of
the Government was taken up by answering all sorts of
odd questions. (Laughter.) Some gentleman, having
read a paragraph in a newspaper, would ask the Govern-
ment if they could account for it? (Laughter.) Another
would say, "Here's an account about a cabman"—
(laughter)—and another would talk about the soldiers
having got wet at Chobham. Sometimes some 50 or 55
minutes were occupied in answering questions of that de-
scription. (Hear, hear.) He did not think it necessary
to waste the time of the house by answering the objections
which had been stated to his phis. In olden times the
question would have been asked, " What is to become of
foxhunting 1" (Laughter.) He, however, did not think
there were so many foxhunters present in the house. 11,
his opinion they ought to return to a common-sense viev,
of the subject, and live in the country iu pleasant weather,
and in town in winter. (Hear, hear.)
THE EASTERN QUESTION.
Mr. LAYARD—Before the noble lord answers the re-
marks made by the honourable member who has just sat
down, he will perhaps allow me to ask a question on a sub-
ject of great importance. It is now some days since the
noble lord the member for Tiverton requested me to post-
pone a motion of which I had given notice, in consequence
of negotiations being then in progress. It is understood
that those negotiations consisted of a joint proposal from
this country and France to the Governnient of Russia. I
consented to the request of the noble lord, and it will be in
the recollection of the house that he promised to give me an
early day for bringing the subject forward. I have since that
day been given to understand that the noble lord the Secre-
tary for Foreign Affairs, in another place, has stated that he
will be prepared in the course of a few days, whether these
proposals have been accepted or not, to lay before the public
all the papers connected with this subject. During the last
fortnight events of very great importance have taken place
in the East of Europe. I will venture to state that, in the
whole history of the intercouase of nations, acts so unjus-
tifiable, so outrageous, so dangerous as those which have
been committed within the last three months have never
before been committed in Europe. (Hear, hear.) The
Government of Russia has sent a large body of troops into
the provinces of Wallachia and Moldavia; and not only
have they taken military possession of those provinces, but
they have actually taken possession of a great part of the
civil administration of those provinces ; and not only are
they occupied in fortifying the principal towns, but every
military station on the Danube. (Hear, hear.) Mces‘over,
communications of a very insulting character have been
addressed, not only to Turkey, but I think this house will
agree with me when I say to this country also—(hear)—
and that those communications have been put forward in
a manner totally unprecedented in the history of diplo-
macy—(hear, hear)—in a most offensive manner. (Hear,
hear.) A kind of crusade has been preached in Russia,
and that event has been celebrated in the most public
manner, not in Russia alone, because we learn that a cru-
sade against a neighbouring power, characterising it in the
most offensive terms as " infidel," has been preached in the
very provinces of that power, and that the prince of one
• of those provinces has been compelled to attend a public
ceremony 'to return thanks for this crusade against his
own I""eign. (Hear.) What has been the consequence
of these acts? The power against which these proceedings
have been taken has been put to great expense. Not only
have her resonrces been exhausted but she has been obliged
to call for aid upon her neighbours—upon those on whom
the population depend for subsistence. (Hear, hear.) It
is well known that there is great danger of a general out.
break in Turkey, and that it may occur at any mo-
ment. I presume that the acts to which I have alludes),
which outrage the public laws of Europe, which are calcu-
lated to put an end to all those treaties on which the peace
of Europe is founded, and which
have been trampled
under foot, merit the serious attention of the Government
(Hear, hear.) There is scarcely a weak state in Europe
which does not contemplate with alarm the present state of
things. That which has occurred to-clay may heppen again
l
to-morrow, and, following the same course, any powerful
state may, on the same terms, annex
any neighbour-
ing state weaker than itself. We are told that these out-
rageous acts are merely negotiations. I presume that the
Government, although evincing a laudable desire to main
fain the peace of Europe, and although ready to make
every sacrifice for the preservation of that peace, have
nevertheless made an unqualified and energetic protest
against attacks like these, and have taken means to prevent
them being viewed as a precedent in similar cases hereafter;
and it is but an act of justice to this country and to Europe
at large, that these protests should be placed before the
public, in order that they may have the opportunity of
judging whether they are adequate to the great importance
of the subject, and are such as we as a nation ought to
have made ; and in order that, if unfortunately, such pro-
tests have not been made, those members who think as I
do should have the opportunity of registering a solemn pro-
test against a policy which would in that case be inconsis-
tent with the dignity, the honour, and the interests of this
country, and, moreover, I will venture to say, dangerous
to the existence, not only of Turkey, but of every weak
state on the continent of Europe. (Hear, hear-) Every
hour at this time increases the opportunity of Russia. We
know what has passed. We know how far we can rely on
the assurances she has given us. We know how, far we
can rely on assurances which have been still more vaguely I
given, and which show us that Russia is not disinclined
to take advantage of the propositions which have been sub-
mitted to her consideration. If these negotiations can only
be prelonged for a few months, our fleets will be compelled
either to violate a treaty, the violation of which Russia
has declared would be a cants belli, or to return to their
winter quarters at Malta. We find that for several reaso
ns
Russia will not leave the princii alities. We are told
by an organ that is not supposed to be unconnected with
the Russian Government, that Russia having made a
nine months' contract for provisions cannot throw up that
contract ; and it has also been insinuated that she will
not quit the principalities until she has been paid the
expenses of the invasion. That reminds me of the old east:

ern custom, where a great man, after compelling a village
to furnish provisions, made the inhabitants pay him a sum
of money for the use of his teeth in chewing teem. (Hear,
and laughter.) I think the Government ought, to be pre-
pared to lay on the table, in sufficient time befon the close
of the session, those papers which may give the public an
opportunity of forming an accurate opinion on this ques-
tion ; and I trust tie noble lord will appoint a day—this
day week or Monday week—for a full discussion of this
most momentous question. (Cheers.)
Lord J. RUSSELL—In reply to the remarks of the hon.
member for Aylesbury, I will state what has been our
course of proceeding with respect to that very interesting
and important question to which he has invited the atten-
tion of the house. (Hear, hear.) The house will recollect
that at an early period, when questioned on this subject,
I stated that demands had been made by Prince Menschi-
koff upon the Government of Turkey, which, in the opinion
of her allies—England and France—were inconsistent with
the independence of Turkey. At a later period I stated,
in reply to another question, that her Majesty's fleet had
been ordered to leave Malta, and to proceed to Besika
Bay, in the neighbourhood of the Straits of the Darda-
nelles. The hon. gentleman speaks of negotiations. That
proceeding hardly comes under the designation of a nego-
tiation. It was intended as a proof, and it is a proof, how
much her Majesty has at heart the independence and in-
tegrity of the Turkish dominions. (Loud cheers.) But
when the hon. gentleman complains that papers have not
been laid on the table, and that this house is not in a situa-
tion to express an opinion on the course of proceeding
adopted by her Majesty's Government, I must say that I
think of all preparations for war the best is to exhaust
every means to obtain peace—(loud and repeated cheers)
—that it is not until all the means of negotiatiOn have been
tried and have failed, that any Ministers would be justified
in placing at hazard that peace which has happily con-
tinued for so many years, and by which the prosperity,
the wealth, the commerce, and the liberties of Europe have
been so largely promoted. (Loud cheers.) If this is the
case, I think the house will agree at once that, while these
negotiations are carried on, they can be better carried on
from Government to Government than by laying all the
papers connected with such negotiations before a popu-
lar assembly, and exposing them to popular debate.
kCheers.) In so saying I have no doubt I ask much from
the indulgence of the house—l have mach to ask from
the confidence of the house. But I ask it on no party
ground. I do not ask it of one party rather than the
other. Bat I ask it in full reliance on the patriotism of
this house, and on considerations which this house will
always give to those persons who happen, at the moment,
to be Ministers of the Crown. (Cheers.) I have only to
adel, that these negotiations, so far from having been
brought to a close, have hardly had a commencement at
St. Petersburgh. Considering the distance—the necessity
of applying at Constantinople to ascertain the opinions and
the wishes of the Turkish Government—the communica-
tions that have taken place between France and this coun-
try, and the distance again to St. Petersburgh, I think the
house will not wonder that these negotiations are not in a
state to be laid before the house. (Hear.) My noble friend
the Secretary for Foreign Affairs has declared elsewhere
that as soon as his public duty will permit he will lay all
the necessary papers before the Houses of Parliament. I
know that there may be some disadvantage in not mak-
ing public a protest or au answer to papers which have
been ostentatiously circulated throughout Europe. (Hear,
hear.) A dispatch written by M. Drouyn de Lhuys has,
however, appeared in print —a most able, statesmanlike
document, containing very convincing reasons, stating
facts which undoubtedly weaken, if they do not altogether
do away with, the assertions in the state paper to which it
is an answer. (Cheers.) Had it been the custom and usage
in this country to give papers separately, the present Go-
vernment would have been happy to produce at once the
dispatch of Lord Clarendon on the same subject, in which
he has used a similar line of argument. (Cheers.) But in
conformity with the usage always adopted by Parliament,
we think it right to reserve that paper until all the papers
can be laid before the house. For my own part, I entirely
agree with what was stated at a time when I was absent'
by my noble friend the Secretary for the Home Department.
We are ready to rely upon the forbearance of this house
as long as forbearance can properly be given. If we were
unhappily to find that these negotiations could not be ter-
minated honourably and satisfactorily in peace, we should
as fully rely upon the patriotism of this house and its de-
termination to support the honour of the Crown. (Loud
cheers.) I will only say further, that the conduct of the
Emperor of the French, and of his Government, has been
entirely in accordance with that of her Majesty's Govern-
ment, and that the two powers are united to maintain the
faith of treaties—to preserve, if possible, the peace of
Europe—to preserve it with the honour of both countries
unsullied—to preserve it with the view of maintaining
the happiness of Europe and the peace of Europe. (Loud
cheers.)
Mr. LAYARD.—The noble lord has not said whether
he will give me a day for the discussion.
Lord J. RUSSELL.—After what I have stated tho hon.
gentleman cannot expect me to name any day.
Mr. DRUMMOND.—With respect to may question.
Lord J. RUSSELL.— I shall not now discuss the ques-
tion as to our sitting in winter, and having our holidays in
summer. I am one of those who, in some respects, agree
with the ho-n. member. I ha,o, h4wovo., utr.te. ve,l shat
whenever the house met at an early period, the session was
not found to be a short one. I believe that in another year
—I will not say next year—we may be able to finish the
session in June or July. (Hear, hear.)
CHARTERS TO STEAM COMPANIES.
Lord HOTHAM wished to ask the question of which he
had given notice, on a subject in which a great many peo-
ple were interested. Without making any complaint
against the right hon. gentleman for the course he had
thought fit to pursue, he wished to ask him whether he
would lay on the table such information as would enable
the country to know the particular grounds on which he
persisted in granting a charter to the Direct Australian
Steam Navigation Company ?
Mr. CARDWELL said, that if he wished to be guided
by precedent, it was impossible for him to refuse the char-
ter to the company refer red to, which was a company that
was competing with other companies that already possessed
charters.

THE PETERBOROUGH PETITION.
Mr. BRIGHT said he understood that in the course of
,he evening a committee had been nominated, in pursuance
of the resolution adopted by the house last night, in the
matter of the petition charging Earl Fitzwilliam with
having interfered in various elections for Peterborough.
It would be in the recollection of the house that,
when he moved for the appointment of a com-
mittee, he endeavoured to follow in all particulars,
except in having reduced the number by two, the
precedent of the Stamford case. He stated that his
object in moving that the number of the committee
should be seven was that the general committee of selection
might appoint five, that, he should be chosen as another,
atal that some other member of the house should be se-
lected to watch the case fur Earl Fitzwilliam. He under-
stood that the house acceded to that view. He now found,
however, that the general committee had nominated seven
members, and that he was not one of them, though there
might, for anything he knew, be one of the friends of Earl
Fitzwilliam upon the committee. Ho was not aware that
any of the gentlemen who had been placed upon the com-
mittee knew anything of the case, and if they did not it
would be necessary to have counsel, who were not the best
parties to bring out the truth in such an inquiry. He
should be very glad, personally, to be excused from serv-
ing upon the committee, but having moved for its appoint-
ment upon the understanding that he should be chosen
one of its members, he did think that the course which
had been taken by the general committee of selection was
not that which the house intended, or which would best
promote the ends of justice. He was not at the present
moment certain what step to adopt with the view of re-
verting to the intention of the house ; but he should con-
sider, between that and Monday, what course he ought to
pursue in the matter, and should then state his determi-
nation with regard to it.
MR. HENRY AND THE NEW CAB ACT.
Lord PALMERSTON—I may take this opportunity of
answering the question which was put- to me yesterday
with reference to a police case at Bow-street, under the
new Cab Act. On inquiry I find the circumstances to be
these. There came before the magistrate at Bow-street a
person who had hired a cab, and who desired that a dif-
ference which had taken place between himself and the cab-
man with respect to the exact fare to be paid should be
settled in the police court. The magistrate upon carefully
considering the case decided that the cabman had made an
overcharge. He told the cabman that, if he desired to
have the ground measured, he was ready to do so, but that
in that case the usual practice would be followed, which
I think is to require each party to put down ss. The
fare, if I recollect right, was 4s. 6d., and the amount de-
manded was 55., or soraething more. Mr. Henry informs
me that the cabman declined the measurement, not be-
cause he had not ss. to pay, but because he generally re-
fused that mode-of settling the dispute: Upon that the
magistrate sentenced him to a fine of 40s. for demanding
more than he was entitled to by the act, and the fine not
being paid, he was committed to prison for a month. The
fine, however, has since been paid, and the cabman is now
at liberty to drive over the same distance and demand the
same fare if he chooses. (Hear, hear.)
time :ziEoWndSaPy.tnlPexEtß. S STAMP DUTIES BILL.
This bill, as amended, was ordered to be read a third

spi.nooneemthioti,
sion to lupi-
n., MAYNOOTH.
rereforence to the appointment of which notice had been given by Mr.
MaYnoloitiptilwminlia:tathtlitehreeqstyiessttemof nettimuceanttioonf
pursued
aucorsumemd iast-
oLford J. RUSSELL, post-
poned° 1 Y.
The house then TvillEt •
Sir C. WOOD said helnr
the intentions of the
visions of clause 32. The objelNDlAct
notfwith regard to the pro-
late the appointments to Haileybe the clause was to regu;
of assistant-surgeons. It embracerrlY'thteo Addiscombe, and
rent questions, which he hoped wouldin•eoftore, three diffc-
in discussion, but kept quite distinct and senbaere-°tnfounded
With
respect to Haileybury, the proposition of the Government
was, that all the admissionS should be open to publi
Petition. On the other hand, the hon. member for PUiolin
te-
fract 1 roposed to omit all that part of the clause, and to
retain the present system of nomination unchanged; while
the proposal of the hou. m•rnber for Montrose was, that
one-half of the admissions should be by nomination and
the other half by public competition, The first question,
therefore, upon which the committee would have to de-
cide, was whether,i he admissions to Haileybnry should be
by public competition or by nomination. The Govern-
ment was determined -to adhere to its proposal, and
he should therefore resist the amendment of the hon.
member for Pontefract. With respect, however, to the
next question—the admissions to the military seminary at
Addiscombe—he had received, since the bill was presented,
such strong representations from members of the Indian 4

committee and others, of the high character and brilliant
services of persons who had gone through Addiscombe, and
served in the engineering and artillery services of the East
India Company, that he had resolved to abstain from in-
terfering in any way with t pres•dit mode of admission
to aat seminary. (Hear, hear.) He should therefore pro-
pose to omit all that part of the clause which had reference
to the admissions to Addiscombe, retaining in his own
hands, and even increasing, the power of the Board of
Control of prescribing the examinations both upon enter-
ing and leaving the college, and of appointing the ex-
miners. With regard to the third question—the appoint-
ment of assistant-surgeons—ho proposed to retain the
clause as it stood, opening the military medical service of
the company to public competition. The Government
also proposed that the appointments to this service, as
will as those to Haileybury, should be open to natives of
India. (Hear.)
Mr. HUME expressed his satisfaction at the resolution
to which the right hon. baronet had come relative to the
admisssions to Addiscombe, and hoped he would adopt the
same course wi.h respect to the civil service. He believed
that the civil service was composed, on the whole, of men
of the highest character, and well. acquainted with the
habits and customs of the natives, and he felt convinced
that if a door should be opened to competition to the ex-
tent proposed by the bill, a very great risk would be en-
countered. His suggestion was that one half of the can-
didates fpr admission to the colleges should be chosen by
competition, and he would therefore move to insert after
the word " appoint," in the third line of the clause, the
words, " half the number of." (Hear, hear.)
Sir H. MADDOCK could not agree with the amend-
ment of his hon. friend who had just sat down, for he
thought that it would lead to extraordinary confusion if
they admitted one-half the students into a college who
were nominated by their friends, and another half com-
prised of persons who had gained that position by their
individual attainments. He felt himself bound to record
his vote in favour of leaving the whole of these appoint-
ments open to competition.
Mr. V. SMITH said that as this was merely an experi-
ment which they were about to make, he agreed with the
hon. member for Montrose (Mr. Hume) that after the ex-
periment should be made on a small scale at first, and ex-
tended subsequently if it proved successful. Competition
in this country was a source from which we derived so
many advantages, that many appeared to forget that it
might not be adapted to all cases and all circumstances.
He doubted very much that academical distinctions was
any test of that ability which was so particularly desired
in the Indian service, and though he admitted the patron-
age of the company had been, in some cases, exercised in
a manner which was vulgarlyl called " jobbing," yet it
must be recollected that there was a noble and advanta-
geous use of patronage, and that; on the whole, no fault
could be found with the manner in which it had been dis-
pensed by the Court of Directors.
Lord STANLEY supported the principle of test by
competition. He believed that in by far the greater ma-
jority of cases, the honours attained in later life had been
proportionate to those which had been achieved in early
life. While, however, he did not think that they could
adopt, on the whole, a better or fairer test than competi-
tion ; yet, he must admit, that little good could result
from the application of such a test to boys of 17 or 18
years of age, and he should suggest that the lowest age of
the candidates for examination should be fixed at 20 or 21,
that being the usual period of life at which academical
honors were generally taken. An accidental superiority
at the age of 17 or 18 might be more fairly attributed to
cramming than to any spontaneous proof of ability, and
this would generally occur if the examinations were to be
merely for entrance into the college, which would confine
the candidates to those of a youthful age. He thought
that the much better plan would be to define the qualifi-
cations which were requisite for admission into the civil
service, and, having done so, to give the appointments to
those who distinguished themselves in the examinations.
Mr. R. J. PHILLIMORE also supported the clause, but
said that he could not agree with the noble lord (Lord
Stanley) as to the benefits to be derived from unlimited
competition in a case like this. Competition involved the
very great evil of " cra darning," and many an infant Ros-
cious had turned out an ancient scene-shifter. He consi-
dered, however, that this system would abolish a great
many of the evils which were inseparable from the former
one, and he was consequently in favour of• the proposition'
made by her Majesty's Government. The hon. member
concluded by saying he would support the clause.
Mr. ELLIOT said it would be impossible for a widow
coming home from India to educate her sons so as to qua-
lify them for an appointment as proposed ; and he thought
that that was a consideration which his right hon. friend
should take into account.
Mr. NEWDEGATE said it appeared to him that they
would lose the parties possessing excellent qualifications
for office by the course that was proposed.
Mr. FITZGERALD believed that, in accepting compe-
tition in lieu of nomination, they would best secure the
best amount of merit for the civil service in India.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY having said a few words,
Mr. HUME replied, when the committee divided, and
the numbers were—
For the amendment..
Against it ..
Majority —s4
Sir CHARLES WJOD, in reply to a request made by
Mr. BLACKETT, said he could not consent to postpone the
next clause, merely because hon. members were nut pre-
sent.

39

Mr. OTWAY expressed his satisfaction at the conces-
sions made by the President of the Board of Control, by
which natives of India would be eligible to situations in
the civil and medical service of India.
After a few words from Sir H. HADDOCK,
Mr. BRIGHT wished to know if the President of the
Board of Control intended to fix a salary for the directors,
and if so, he should be glad to know the amount.
Sir C. WOOD.—I do intend to bring up a clause fixing
the salary of the directers.
Mr. BOUVERIE (the Chairman of the Committee) sug-
gested that Mr. Bright's question did not arise out of the
clause before the committee.
Mr. BRIGHT thought on a measure of this kind great
latitude might be allowed. His question had not been
answered. He should like to know, then, what the
amount of the salary would be ?
Sir C. WOOD said ho had already expressed his inton-
lioa up a vi,u4o on the subject.
Mr. BRIGHT—WiII the right honourable baronet say
what the salary is to be?
Sir C. WOOD said he would do so when he brought up
the clause.
Mr. PHILLIMORE thought they ought to know wha'
the salary was to be.
Mr. OT WAY was of the same opinion.
Mr. BLACKETT wished to know, now that the pa-
tronage was to be restored to the directors, upon what
ground their salary was to be raised ?
Sir C. WOOD said he never, at any time, had mixed up
the question of patronage and salary, in respect to the di-
rectors of the East India Company. This might be a good
time for him to state, that hejhad had a consultation with
the chairman and deputy chairman of the Board of Di-
rectors, in reference to the statement made by the hon.
member for Manchester, relative to the conduct of a di-
rector, touching the sale of an office within his patronage.
These gentlemen said they were satisfied that the hon.
member for Manchester would not have made the state-
ment in question unless he believed it to be a correct one ;
at the same time they felt bound to declare that they did
not believe that any director of the East India Company
had been guilty of the conduct charged against him. The
Board of Directors further authorised him to state, that
they would spare neither pains nor expense to prosecute
the persuns charged with the offence in question, and with
this view they called upon the member for Manchester to
put it in their power to prosecute the party to conviction;
or, if they could not obtain a conviction, at least to hold
up to public scorn the person who had been guilty of the
improper conduct in question. (Hear.)
Mr. BRIGHT said his authority on the subject referred
to, was his honourable friend the member for Lambeth
(Mr. Wilkinson.) Before his honourable friend made a
statement, he would just repeat what he had said the pre-
vious night respecting this matter. He said that a near
relative of the hon. member for Lambeth had been offered
an appointment in connection with India, and that in the
course Of the discussion that took place between the par-
ties, allusion was made as to what would be expected from
thesaelative of the hon. member for Lambeth, in the event
of the appointment taking place. He, however, finding
that he would be obliged to make a declaration that he had
not given any money for the appointment, declined to
make the declaration, the negotiation terminated, and he
did not get the appointment. He had only to repeat, that
he had the account from the honourable member for Lam-
beth. That honourable gentleman was in the house last
night when he (Mr. Bright) referred to the matter, but he
did not say so, not having been authorised so to do.
Mr. WILKINSON, after observing that, as the conversa-
tion which gave rise to the statement made by hie hon.friend
(Mr. Bright) was a private one, he was taken by surprise.
That was one reason why he did not address the house last
evening on this subject. And the reason that induced him
to be silent last evening, was that he had not then autho-
rity to corroborate the statement of his hon. friend. The
fact was, that the person to whom the proposal was made
was his brother. The transaction took place about Octo-
ber last ; but as his brother had given his word of honour
that he would not divulge the name of the person who had
made to him the offer of the appointment in question, he
could not make it public. (Oh.) His brother had a desire
that his son should go to India. The friend said he could
get him an appointment, stating what would be required
for it. •His brother did not think there was anything
wrong in his paying a sum of money for the appointment,
and he consented to pay for the appointment, and he was
very much pleased to have an opportunity of doing so.
He was, however, subsequently shown the form of declara-
tion which he would have to make in respect to the appoint-
ment, and finding that he would have to declare that he
had obtained it without purchase, he refused to proceed
any further in the matter. " Oh," said the person offering
the appointment, " you don't pay to the person having the
appointment in his gift—the appointment is given to me,
and as you only give your money to some indigent person,
you can safely make the declaration in question." (Hear,
,hear.) His brother, however, declined to adopt this
course, and the negotiation terminated. He (Mr. Wilkin-
son) would only observe that the person who proposed to
sell the appointment was a highly respectable person in the
city of London, and one who, if he said he had it to sell,
was beyond all doubt in possession of it for that purpose.
Lord JOCELYN said the question at issue was a most
painful one. A stigma had been cast upon the whole
Court of Directors by the charges made, and it was the
duty of the hon. gentleman to give up the name of the
particular party who was specially liable to the charge.
Sir B. INGLIS was bound to say that the hon. member
for Yanchester did not refer to any director in this case,
and the impression left upon the house by the hon. mem-
ber's statement was, that the whole transaction might have
taken place without a guilty knowledge on the part of the
parson having the appointment.
Lord J. fUSSELL expressed his regret that the hen,
member for Manchester, with such information as he had,
should have made the charge he had last night because, on
'the one hand, they were piecing the Government of a great
empire...in the hands of these gentlemen, iu whom they
ought7to repose the greatest confidence, and on the other
if it were to go out to India that any of them would
divisayof his patronage for money, their power might be
seriously diminished. After all that bad taken place, it
seemed to be but a private conversation that had taken
place between two persons, neither of whom, had any
authority to make any such proposition.. He did think that
'he hon. member for Lambeth ought to have considered
snore sal iously before he made such a charge against the
Quart of Directors, who, apart from individuals, stood
AO
party
carp'
,n 1 Ilan having no
htg4 in the estimation of the pnblie. (Hear.)
n
Sir 110(IG said that not only a director, but any third
be punished for engaaine• in a transaction so
as liable as the man:i receiv,d
in appointments, with how the bru,;thel\r'only
ointrn t A man who asked for the money was
power had asked for consideration
,ththeihsotnratlinacekmer.
jbsr for Lambeth had Onirmuicated, was just as base and
ust as punishable as a director who had done the same
thing • and this gentleman
with
bosh knew well that thistrawhns
base, but illegal and di :tibcmothnisecause was
heos nvn
had the

audacity to propose a way in which he might evade the
law. (Hear.) That transaction was base, because it
tended to implicate an • honourable body- of men. Ere
thought that the name of that gentleman ought to given
to the chairman, in order that if any in.livitinal were
guilty, he might be punished and exposed as a swindler,
for having endeavoured to sell what he had no right to.
Mr. BLACKETT thought that thes3 reflections were ua-
just. It was the business of an hon. member placed in a
position of responsibility to give a great public scandal to
the house ; and he showed courage in having ventured to
do it, and equal honour in refusing to divulge any names,
without the permission of his informant.
Mr. MANGLES said the hon. member for Manchester
showed courage in one way, but not in another • because
he made the charge to throw discredit upon the 'Court of
Directors, but he had not equal courage in taking the re-
sponsibility of enabling them to throw off that discredit.
The hon. member for Manchester had spoken of the traffic
as notorious, but they had never screened any delinquent;
and he would pledge a prosecution, even although the
guilty party should he a member of their own body.
Mr. WILKINSON said that the party who came to his
brother professed to be in communication with a director,
but he did not say he was a director. (Cheers.) He did
not make the statement, and was therefore not responsible
for it, but he knew his brother's word of honour bad been
given not to give up the name, and therefore he could not
name him. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. PHILLIMORE said that the bon. member for
Lambeth had studiously guarded himself from saying that
it was a director from whom his brother had this commu-
nication.
Mr. MASTERMAN deprecated the throwing out such
insinuations against such a body of men as the Directors
of the East India Company. He thought the hon. mem-
ber for Lambeth was bound to induce his brother to use
his influence to get rid of the promise of secrecy.
Mr. BRIGHT said that, when the honourable member
for Surrey (Mr. Drummond) charged the house with being
"a mass of corruption," he hoped at least that they would
not have cheered and laughed at the charge. Now, last
night they were discussing the value of the directors'
patronage, and although it was not the practice tosay that
the patronage of the Archbishop of Canterbury or the
Prime Minister was worth 60,0001. or 100,0001. a year, yet
it was extremely common to hear it said that the patron-
age of a director of the East India Company was worth
10,0001. or 12,0001. a year. There was not a man who
never said an indiscreet thing, and he perhaps was not an
exception, but he had made no charge against the direc-
tors. His object was to show that this patronage was
worth something, and that by one mode or other it did
pass from one to another in the market. He did not sup-
pase that the directors commonly made a traffic of these
appointments, but that these appointments were bought
and sat was as clear as that the company existed, and he
had given a case. His object was to show that these things
were trafficked in, and that he had shown, and he objected
that the responsibility of the body invited the offences
which he was anxious to prevent. He ought to have
apologised to the hon. member for Lambeth for having made
this statement without his permission,; but he believed
what he had said to be true, and he defied any one to say
that he had sacrificed the public interest in mentioning
this incident.
After some further conversation, clause 32, as amended;
was agreed to.
Mr. RICH moved a clause giving greater practical effi-
ciency to the 87th section of the Act 3 and 4 Will. 4 C. 85, which declares that "no native of her Majesty's Indian
territories, nor any natural born subject of her Majesty, re-
sident therein, shall by reason only of his religion, place of
birth, descent, colour, or any of them, be disabled from
holding any place, ffice or employment under the said
company." He quoted the opinions of Mr. Macaulay and
Lord Lansdowne in support of his views: The Court of
Directors had excited considerable prejudice against them
by not paying due attentioneto this matter. How was the
native to come oyez' to Haileybury. He contended that the
present act was an aggravation of the late act, so far as the
natives were concerned. His right hon. friend was "keeping
the promise to the ear, and breaking it to the heart." At
the present moment the natives, by their education and
general ability, were more than ever fitted for public em-
ployment. The right honourable gentleman gave some
details as to the present state of education in the col-
leges and schools frequented by the natives of India. The
higher classmen of our Universities bad looked forward to
the highest offices in the Church and State ; but the Indian
youth, after all his training, looked forward only to an
office from which a young civilian thought it very hard if
he was not promoted within two or three years. They
were Europeanising the minds of the young natives, and
yet they were refusing them now as a boon, what they
would hereafter be compelled to submit to have taken
forcibly from them, He would not ask the Government
to make them councillors at. once, he merely asked that
they should establish some college or university, or other
means by which the Indian in India might have the same
access to the service as an Englishman had. It was a great
injustice to force the native to be at the expense of coming
from hia,own land to our rigorous climate to study here,
and to suffer the imputation at least of losing his caste. It
was a mockery to say that this was offering him just faci-
lities for entering the covenanted service. He hoped they
would not take the narrow ground as to whether this or
that word would best fit into the amendment ; but that
they would consider by what Means a free and liberal ac-
cess could be given to the Indian service.
No one having seconded the amendment, it was nega-
tived without a division.
The clause was then agreed to.
Clauses 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, and 39, were also agreed to.
Mr. RICH, recurring to the amendment he had proposed
as regarded the third clause, thought it somewbatunhand-
some of the Chancellor of the Exchequer not.to reply to
him.

Lord STANLEY also said he considered the amend-
ment one of the most important which had as yet been
made. The intention and object of the Government ought
to be to place the natives of India in a proper state in re-
gard to these colleges, in which they could get information.
Under the present system, they could not do so, and it was
therefore necessary that something else should be done in
that respect than was proposed in this bill.
Sir C. WOOD said that it was the intention of the mea-
sure to confer upon the natives of India the benefits which
the hon. gentleman had pointed out, so far as education
was concerned.
On clause 40 being proposed,
Sir J. HOGG suggested that the clause should be omit-
ted.
Sir C. WOOD consented to omit the clause, which was
negatived accordingly.
Clause 41, the last in the bill, was agreed to.
The house then resumed, the Chairman reported progress,
and obtaine I leave to sit again on Monday for the purpose
of considering the new clauses.
ENCUMBERED ESTATES (IRELAND) BILL.
On the order of the day4or going into committee on this
bill

Mr. WHITESIDE moved that the bill be committed
that day week.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL for IRELAND hoped
that the house would not refuse its assent to the proposal
that it shonld then resolve itself into a committee on that
bill. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. I. BIJTT said he thought that the debate ought to
be adjourned at that late hour.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that all government intended to
do was to go into committee, leaving the consideration of
the clauses for a future day,
The amendment was withdrawn, and the house then
went into committee pro forma.
The Patronage Exchange Bill, the Colonial Bishops Act
Extension Bill, the Thames Embankment Bill, and the
Turnpike Trusts Arrangements Bill were read a third.time
and passed.
The order of the day. for the second reading of the
Burial-grounds Bill was discharged.
The report on the Customs, &c., Act was brought up
and discharged.
Mr. MACAITNEY r. as moving for some returns, of
which he had given notice, connected with the permission
given by the Admiralty to certain yacht clubs to carry
certain signals, when
An HON. MEMBER moved that the house be counted,
and, there not being forty members, the house adjourned
at twenty minutes past two.

POCKET BOROUGHS OP TEE PEERAGE.

Number of
Electors. Patrons.
Arundel 2OB
208 Duke of Norfolk.
Woodstock
Marlborough 271 Marquis of Ailesbury.
Horsham
Thetford
200353
EDaurkleDoef Graf t.on.
Ripon
Lisburn
Bandon
Dungannon
Chichester 757 Duke of Richmond.
Newark 867 Duke of Newcastle.
Durham 1,157 Marquis of Londonderry.
He]stone
Penryn and Falmouth 906 Lord de Dunstanville.
Cockertuouth 355 Colonel Wyndham.
Malton
Moipeth , 415 Earl of Carlisle.
Ashburton 236 Lord Clinton.
Armagh 3lB The Lord Primate,
Tavistoc.k . -UV Duke of Bedford.
Totnes
Caine
Wilton - ' 219 Earl of Pembroke.
Dorchester - 432 Earl of Shaftesbury.
Huntingdon ...• 390 Earl of Sandwich.
Stamford ..............
Ludlow
Richmond
Carnarvon B6l Marquis. of Anglesey.
Montgomery .... 1,003 Lord Clive.

MILITIA ESTIMATES.---A report from the select com-
mittee of the House of Commons appointed to prepare
the militia estimates for the year ending 31st March,
1854, has been printed. The following are the heads of
the expenditure :—Charge for raising and training the
militia in England and Wales, 86,666 in number,
319,490/. • disembodied allowances of the permanent
staff in Great Britain and Ireland, 93,6001.; 2,538 in
number ; disembodied allowances of 314 subalterns,
13,000/.; reduced allowances of 53 officers, 3,9001.; re-
tired allowances of 256 ditto, 16,3501.; ditto of 54 local
militia adjutants, 3,8001.; charge of 1,884 out-pensioners
of militia, 28,0001.; of 47 out-pensioners of local militia,
6001. Total force, 91,812 ; estimated charges, 478,470/.
The number of the force for the year ending 31st March,
1853, was 57,746, and the cost 386,715/.
OUR STREETS. ---The wood for our, street pavements
having nearly worn itself out, owing, in a great mea-
. sure, to those monstrous railway vans, and the thou-
sand.4nd-one omnibuses, and given way to the more
noisy and durable granite, might it not he desirable to
consider some means of continuing to us one certainly ad-
mirable quality which the, wood afforded over the stone
pavement, and for which was chiefly recommended, viz.,
its noiselessness, so thatpersons reserved the wear and tear
of their lungs till they reached the wood. So intolerable
have our great leading thoroughfares become from the
incessant din of wheels, iron grating upon stone, that
tradespeople are compelled to close their doors in the
hottest weather, and be stifled with the gas in the coldest,
to hear or converse with their customers, or with one an-
other. Now, without being in the least way interesied
with the noiseless- wheel scheme,. I cannot 1.1 .1p tl:i king
that some such means might be' adopted ; and, if so,
ought to be eniOrced.hy legislative enactment, so far as
our public conveyances are concerned ; and could we
but add a circuit—not central—railway to carry off the
heaviest traffic, we might clear oiir streets of both noise
and nuisance.—The Builder.