The Sun.
London, England, 1854-02-28 00:00:00

ri4 6 .It-_tiirii•r,f Fr tt §,i AT 7,:rVft..141:-VoLfEllt 17*.

point ? "The board ordered tenders to be issued fer 2,000
carbines on an improved pattern on the 11th March last.
Icot one of those carbines ban yet been received into store."
Again, they wen discussing one of the finest instruments
that tould be made—an instrument requiring the most
ixdnute precision ; and they had been told that night by
the-hon. member for Warwickshire, that it vas impossible
to attain this by anything but machinery, as the inspector
of small arms in Warwickshire had blundered in his in-
spection. The question was, then, whether they should
continue to have guns intended for her Majesty's forces
made by theinferior and obsolete processes of hand labour,
or whether they should have applied to the manufacture
the economy and precision of machinery ? The question
was one between hand labour and machinery ? It was ad-
mitted by the hon. member for Warwickshire that machi-
nery was employed in America for the manufacture of
arms which in this country were made by hand labour.
Mr. NIIWDEGATE explained that what he had said,
was that no machinery could be superior to the best hand
labour.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he con-
tended that the muskets ought to be made by machinery.
Experience ought not to be overlooked in this matter. In
former wars this country had been obliged to go to Liege
and other places for a supply of arms. (Hear, hear.) As
regarded the question of expense, he really could not have
believed without investigation that in a matter so compa-
ratively trivial as the providing of small arms for her Ma-
jesty's forces it was possible to effect a saving of 800,0001.
or 900,000/. ; but that •was the case as it stood on the esti-

mated difference between what they were now paying and
what they would have to pay under the new system. The
noble lord (Seymour) said they were going to make a pro-
vision for future wars. He was sorry to say that they
were making provision for a war which was now gathering
around them. (Hear.) The noble lord had asked most
properly when the factories would be in operation. They
would be in operation within 12 months, and the Govern-
ment hoped in the course of the next year to obtain from
it a full supply of arms.---41e meet say that, if censure
were due to the Goy4pment or to the ordnance depart-
ment, it was not for likving.gonde the proposition now, but
for not having made it at an earlier period. They had
been told that they would draw together a great number
of manufacturers and have sudden and uncertain demands,
and they were asked what they would do with these manu-
facturers when the sudden and uncertain demands .eased.
Now, he invited the attention of the house to this point,
for it was the kernel of-the whole case. The hon. member
for Warwickshire said that, in order to enable private
trade to discharge contracts, it was necessary that the con-
tracts should be continuous. He begged the committee to
remember these words. Now be wanted to know how they
could secure a continuity of supply on a demand for arms ?
He wanted to know whose ditty it was to maintain eco-
nomy in the public expenditure? He wanted to know who
could undertake to keep that outlay down in a time of war,
when arms were largely required, much less in a time of
peace ? Certainly the House of Commons could have no
difficulty in answering the third of these questions. Well,
then, to secure economy in the supply of arms, whether in a
time of peace or in a time of war, you must have the power
of sudden expansion and rapidity of manufacture, the two
great objects which were involved in the proposition before
the committee. Government then wanted the power of
sudden expansion, and the power of producing with all
possible certainty a large amount of arms within a certain
space of time, which could not be done by pottering—(a
laugh)—with private traders employing only hand labour.
That past experience proved, for whereas they had ordered
2,000 carbines as far back as the 11th of last March, not
one of those carbines had been delivered in'store up to this
very moment. But what will' the case with regard to ma-
chinery ? Why it was the continuous supply that was
required ; but, Oh,"' said the opponents of this plan,
" if you employ machinery, you will not only require to
keep it constantly in operation, but you will have to keep
a large staff of labourers." Now the latter part of this ob-
jection applied certainly to the present system of private
trading, because there a large amount of skilled labour
had constantly to be kept on hand; but in the case of ma-
chinery it was entirely different. For there, instead of
requiring 90 per cent. of skilled labour, all that would be
necessary would be 10,porbent. tr skilled labour and 90
per cent. of unskilled 'labour ; and, while a small staff
only of skilled labourers woultlthave to be kept in constant
employment, the Government in a time of pressure would
equally have at its command all the unskilled labourers of
the community. Now that was the precise state of the
case ; there was no desire to oppose the private trader,
but there was a desire to promote economy, and to secure
an efficient supply of arms—two objects which the Govern-
ment were convinced this plan would accomplish, or they
never would have invited the House of Commons to under-
take such an enterprise as that which was now proposed.
It would effect a large saving of public money, at the same
time place the country, not in a tolerable, but the best
possible position with regard to the supply of arms, and he
hoped therefore the House of Commons would not refuse
to back the Government in the performance of their duty
to the public. On the contrary, he trusted they would not
hesitate to give a decided' vote in favour of the establish-
ment of a system, by which the country would obtain a
superior supply of arms at a much lower price and with
far greater certainty and more rapidity of delivery than
they could possibly hope to attain under the existing statse
of things. Government, however, did not wish the hou e
to pronounce any decision upon the point until it had been
put in possession of the means of acquiring inf6rmation
upon it, and there would be no indisposition on their part
to refer the whole question to the consideration of a select
committee. For that purpose, therefore, the Government
would have no objection to postpone the vote for a month
upon the understanding that when the committee was ap-
pointed it should sit from day to day until its investigation
was concluded, and in the meanwhile the Government
would upon their own responsibility undertake all the pre-
liminary proceedings necessary for the formation of such
an establishment as this vote contemplated.

Mr. MUNTZ said the right hon. gentleman had certainly
made a most ingenious speech. but he had failed to alter or
grapple with the facts of the case. It seemed to him that
the right hon. gentleman knew nothing at all about the
subject. Hon. gentlemen opposite might cry " oh, oh,"
but did they know anything about it ? He believed they
did not. The right hon. gentleman had told them that it
was a question between machinery and labour; but it was
no such thing, and he would prove it. Did hon. gentlemen
know anything about a towlinK piece—had they ever used
one—had they ever shot with one ? Well, then, a fowling
piece was the result of the combined labour of man and
machinery, and what the Government proposed to do by
this plan was to obtain a similar species of arms by the
aid of machinery alone. But they could not do it. Al-
though, according to the right hon. gentleman's statement,
making a gun was like spinning cotton, you had only to put
the metal in at one end of the machinery, and the gun came
out of the other. But what did the right hon. gentle-
man know about such matters as gun making? Why no-
thing but what he obtained from -his authority, the hon.
clerk of the ordnances who he really believed did not know
a gun from a pistol. (Roars of laughter.) It was said
these arms could be manufactured for 30s. each ; but the
house might rely upon it that the 30s. would become 505.,
as sure as the 100,00/. for the establishment of the manu-
factory would ultimately magnify itself into 500,0004.
(Hear.) He was therefore sorry that the right hon. gen-
tleman objected to his moderate proposal to delay the vote,
but he trusted the committee would support I him in tho
amendment he had ventured to propose. (Hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did not
object to postpone the vote for a month, and having made
that announcement, the right hon. gentleman went on to
read a passage from a report of the board of ordnance, by
which it appeared that during the late war this country
purchased no less than 293,000 stand of arms from foreign
manufacturers. (Hear,)

Mr. A. PELLATT addressed thecommittee amidst much
uproar and impatience. He observed that a great deal had
been said by the trade of Birmingham, and he wished to
say a few words with regard to that of London. There
had been made in London during the last ten years, no less
than 514,376 small arms, which gave an average of some-
thing like 58,137 per annum, (Hear.) There were 1,900
workmen, and 18 houses, already engaged in the manufac-
ture of small arms in London ; ;ad he understood that 8
or 10 of these houses had offered their services to the go-
vernment, but they had been rejected. (Hear.) _ _

Mr. SPOONER strongly recommended his hon. friends
to accept the proposal of the .Chancellor of the Exchequer.
Now the manufactories had a right to expect that more
time would have been'atorded them for inquiry ; but per-
haps a month would be sufficient to establish on which side
the justice of the case rested. (Hear.)
After a few words from Mr. MUNTZ,

Lord J. RUSSELL said it was not meant to bind down
the committee to sit every day ; but it was desirable that
they should sit de die in client, in order that due deligence
might be used.
The vote was then withdrawn.
59,5221. for ordnance storm . . .

Mr. W. WILLIAMS moved that the chairman should
report progress ; but after a remonstrance from Lord J.
Ru SSELL, the vote was agreed to, and the house then re-
sumed.

Lord J. RUSSELL gave notice to move this day, that
the house should meet at two o'clock on Wednesday, and
then go on with the committee of supply.

CHURCH BUILDING ACTS AMENDMENT BILL.
This bill was read a second tint's:- --
VALUATION (IRELAND) ACT AMENDMENT
BILL.

This bill was read a Second time.
The house adjourned at ten minutes to one o'clock.

CHURCH-RATE CONTEST.—On Thursday last a vestry
was held in the parish church of Milton next Gravesend,
Kent, to make a rate. The parish churchwarden, after
stating the cost incurred in the repairs of the church in
the past year, and other legal expenses to be provided
for by a rate, moved that a church-rate of 3d. in the
pound be made to defray these expenses. This motion
gave rise to a stormy discussion. Some of the ratepayers
(dissenters and churchmen) suggested a voluntary con-
tribution to defray the charge, amounting to 1201., for
which a rate was demanded. This proposition was re-
pudiated by the churchwardens, and a division upon the
mot:on took place, at the end of which the church-
wardens demanded a poll, which terminated on Satur-
day in favour of the opponents of the rate by a majority
of 90, the numbers being, for the rate, 150 ; against
it, 240. _ _

[ADVERTISEMENT.]—Fifty thousand Cures have been
effected by Du Barry's delicious Revalenta Arabica Food,
without medicine, inconvenience, or expense (as it sa.ves
fifty times its cost in other remedies).- " Twenty-five-years
nervousness, constipation, indigestion, and debility., from
which I had suffered great misery, and which no medi-
cine could remove or relieve, have been effectually cured
by Du Barry's Food in a very short time. 117. R.
Reeves, Pool Anthony, Tiverton." "Eight ye:ars' dys-
pepsia, nervousness, debility, with cramp F„ spa►ems, and
nausea, for which my servant had consisted the advice
of many, have been effectually remove .1 by Du Barry's
delicious food in a very short time. I shall be happy
to answer any inquiries. Rev. Jolin W. Flavel, Rid-
lington Rectory, Norfolk." "Tb .ree years' excessive
nervousness, with pains in my rig ;ck and left arm, and
general debility, which rendered • my life very miserable,
has been radically removed by Du Barry's excellent
food. Alexs. Stuart, Archdeacr )n of Ross, Skibbereen."
—" Fifty years' indescribable agony from dyspepsia,
nervousness, asthma, cough, constipation, flatulency,
spasms, sickness at the stow ►ech, and vomitings, has
been removed by Du Barry's e: xellent food. Maria Jolly,
Wortham Ling, near Diss, ,Torfolk." Copies of testi-
monials of 50,000 cures (incb ading those of Lord Stuart
de Decies, Major-General Thomas King, Drs. Ure,
.Skozland, and Harvey (grr‘ti& ). In canisters, with full
instructions, 11b., 2s. ; 21b., 4s. 6d. ; 51b., 11s. ;
121 b., 225. ; super-refined, sib., 225. ; 101 b., 335. The
101 b. and 121 b. carriage free.. Barry Du Barry and Co.,
77, Regent-street, Loneion :also, Fortnum, Mason, and
Co., purveyors to her Majcist3,, Piccadilly.