The Sun.
London, England, 1854-12-20 00:00:00

"I cannot dwell upon the mystery of *here we are to ob-
tain those foreign troops which we propose to raise; all
we ask you is to allow her Majesty to have the power to
raise foreign volunteers and enlist them iu her service, and
you, as the representatives of the people, may take upon
yourselves the power and the responsibility of limiting the
number of these foreign mercenaries." But, sir, when the
noble lord impresses upon us the importance of the measure
as one which we ought to adopt immediately, on the
ground that we cannot carry on a war with au empire
which outrivals us in military resources, I do not agree
with the noble lord in the observation he has made, that
all her great commanders have adopted this system, and
that the plan proposed by the Government is one which
has received the sanction of the highest authorities. It is
unnecessary for me to touch upon that part of the subject
which has been so ably and completely treated by former
speakers—namely, that the foreign troops which have been
levied were the troops of those with whom we were in al-
liance; it is unnecessary for me to refer to the German
Legion, or the troops enlisted at Hanover under the reign
of a late Sing; 'it is sufficient for me to say that such
troops were the servants of our Allies, or who from pecu-
liar feelings had sympathy with this country. (Hear,
hear.) It cannot be supposed that our soldiers would have
any objection to be engaged side by aide with foreigners
who are bound by sympathy in the same cause; but it
was, I admit, with feelings of great disappointment that I
heard the nelrie lord's observations, in which no mention
was made of the enthusiasm with which the soldiers
of England would fight by the side of their fellow-coun-
trymen. (Cheers.) The noble lord alluded to the steeds
of our armies under Marlborough, at a time - when
they were assisted by foreign troops, and pointe,l to the
battles of Blenheim, of Ramillie. and of Malplequet,
which he rays, were won, not merely by British troops,
but by an army of 60,000 men, one-third of whom were
foreigners; but the noble lord failed to tell us the history
of the grand alliance in the time of William 111., or to
deduce thence the not unnatural consequence th it the
moans which had been used in fighting the battles of the
English nation under the circumstance of that grand alli-
ance wonla be continued while those means were in exist-
ence. (Cheers.) The whole argument of the noble lord
to-night has been founded upsea this fallacy—that we were
objecting to the measure before the house because we lied
a prejudice against Englishmen fighting by the side of fo-
reigners. But that fallacy of the noble lord's is very tri-
lling when compared with the gross, and I may say dange-
rous error, which pervaded the rest of his argument. He
imputes to us that we object to our soldiers fighting by the
aide of foreigners; our objection is simply to see them
fighting by the side of foreigners who are condottieri and
mercenaries, but we have no objection to their fighting by
the side of foreigners who are allies. We admire the con-
queror of Blenheim and Ramillies just as much as if the
whole of his troops had been English. (Hear.) But
throughout the whole of his speech the noble lord argued
just as if there was no such nation as the French nation—
Just as if there was no such army as the French army—
(cheers)—and as if that intimate alliance between the Eng-
lish and French troops, and that cordial friendship between
the Generals, to which he adverted so gracefully but a few
evenings ago, were, in fact, dreams which he had forgotten
immediately after the night on which he proposed the
thanks of this house to the French and English armies.
(Hear, hear.) If it be true, as the noble lord says,
that there is on the part of a large portion of this
house—that is, of gentlemen who sit on this side of
the house—aod in the country generally, a great preju-
dice against Englishmen fighting by the side of foreigners,
how can the noble lord account for the not merely
cordial sympathy and appreciation, but the absolute
enthusiasm with which the Freoch and English alliance
is now viewed, not only in this house, but in the coun-
try,? The noble lord says that hon. gentlemen must not
think because we have despatched 54,000 men already to
the seat of war that force is sufficient to resist the power
of this great Emperor of Russia. Well, sir, lam glad to
hear that we have been able in the first year of the war to
send out so many men, but I must remind the house that
we did not send out these 54,000 men to carry on S. single-
handed contest with the Emperor of Russia. We sent
them out to be companions in arms and comrades in glory
of our great and gallant ally—(cheers)—who was, we were
always told, and whom we always believed to be, a first-
rate military power. (Hear.) Surely, the noble lord,
when he was calculating our resources to resist the Em-
peror of Russia—to use a word not very classical or ele-
gant, but very commonly used of late—ignored the exist-
ence of the French nation and army, and ,he somewhat
forgot that we possessed a most powerful military ally.
(Hear.) I maintain that the noble lord, in taking that
view of the case, misrepresented the spirit of this measure,
•and conveyed to the house and the country a totally false
and fallacious view of the position which we occupy with
regard to the resources at our disposal for carrying on this
war. (Hear.) Having vindicated the claims of the French
allies to be remembered by the Ministers of the Crown in
calculating our resoul cars' I will make this admission to the
noble lord and to the Secretary of State, who seems to
think that he was to carry this measure with that good-
natured blustering which he so well knows how to employ
—(a laugh)—that in the course of the late war there were
instances—a few instances—in which foreign troops were
enlisted in the service of the Sovereign of this country,
which enlistment could not be vindicated by those legiti-
mate principles which have been referred to in the course
of this debate. I admit that in the last war there were
instances in which the policy of 1778, when the Hessians
were sent to America, was imitated. The circumstances of
that case I need not refer to ; they must be fresh in the
historical memory of every hon. gentleman ; it is a shame-
ful page in the history of England—and the saying of
Frederick the Great, who, when he heard that the Elector
of Hesse and other petty German princes were thus bar-
tering the blood of their subjects, declared that as they
passed through his dominions he would levy a toll upon
them as upon so many cattle, was one of the most justly
severe observations which I have ever met with. (Hear.)
The noble lord the Secretary of State told us that the
greatest commanders, and Napoleon among others, had
had recourse to this measure to sustain their military
strength, and that they had always approved the system ;
but in answer to the noble lord I will take the liberty c f
quoting the name of a commander not second even to the
great Napoleon—l will quote the authority of the Duke
of Wellington. (Hear.) The passage I am about to read is
an extract from a letter front the Duke of Wellington to
Lord Liverpool, dated the 19th of January, 1811, and it,
shows the value of those troops who do not join our stan-
dard from' any sympathy of political feeling of conviction.
the Duke says,—
" I am sorry to give you bad accounts of the Brunswick
Legion. They continue to desert in large numbers ; and on
the eight before last 14 deserted to go to the enemy; 11
were caught, 1 WAS shot while making the attempt, and only
2 got off."
(Hear, hear.) Again, on the 23d of April, ho writes to
General Graham (Lord Lynesloch)
" I attribute the disposition of all foreign recruits to desert
from our armies to the regularity of system and to the strict-
ness of discipline which arises, and which must be upheld in
order to keep a British army iu the field in a state of effici-
ency ; and their desertion is frequently very inconveniences,
I am not desirous of increasing the number of foreign troops
with this army."
(Cheers.) I recommend this last passage to the attention
of the Secretary-at-War, who seems to think that no Ge-
neral was ever yet known who was not desirous of increas-
ing his armies. (Hear.) This letter was written in Jan-
uary, 1811, and in June of the same year the Duke writes
thus to Lord Liverpool :
" Since the commencement of the siege of Badajoz 52 of
the Chasseurs Erittanique have deserted, though we have
with the army only a selection of that corps, 686, who are
suspected, being left at Lisbon."
• (Loud cheers, and laughter.) lam sure the house will ex-
cuse me for reading these passages ; it is, indeed, like hav-
ing the counsel and advice of the duke himself upon this
point. (Hear, hear.) On the 6th of May, 1812, the duke
writes to General Cooke :--
" In regard to General Ross's complaint Of the inclination
of Watteville's Regiment to desert, all general officers who
have foreign troops under their command have the same
cause to complain. (Hear, hear.) In that part of the army
under my command called British there are between 6,000
and 7,000 of them who desert whenever they eau get au
opportunity."
(Laughter.) Now, these are the free lances whom the Go-
vernment would have is have recourse to. I was deter-
mined to meet the objections of these well-informed gen-
tlemen, her Majesty's Ministers, who get up and make fine
statements about all foreign troops employed by the Crown
being bound to us by feelings of political sympathy, and so
on. (Bear, hear.) There were many free lances of this
description in the Peninsular army, but I would not be
understood as at all referring to the German Legion. (X
that corps I would speak with all the honour which it de-
serves and which it has received. I say nothing of all those
troops who joined us because the interests of their country
were bound up with ours, who were either subjects of the
same Sovereign or subjects of Sovereigns for whose cause
we were fighting, and who, I believe, behaved throughout
the war with admirable fidelity, courage, and discipline.
(Hear, hear.) I confine myself to those free lances, to
those foreign mercenaries, to those condottieri, who were
engaged in the cheapest market, and who had no political
convietions or patriotic Byrn' athies—who were purchased
by the Power that paid them most, and whose achieve-
ments are immortalised by the passages I have read
from the pen of their illustrious comm trader. I have
read extracts from the Duke's letters in 1811 and 1812, and
now, if you will allow me, I will read you what he says in
1813. On the 25th of February, 1813, he thus writes to
General Campbell at Alicante:—
" I have received your letter of the 12th, regarding the
conduct of the 2d Italian Regiment, and I entirely concur
sion
in
all the measures you have adopted, and applaud the de
are so
and firmness of your conduct. The foreign troops
much addicted to desertion that they are very unfit for our
armies—(mar, hear)—of which they necessarily form too
large a proportion to the native troops. The evil is aggr
as
a-
vated by the practice which prevails of enlisting prisoners
well as deserters, and Frenchmen as well as other foreigners.
The consequence is, therefore, that a for sign regiment cannot
be placed in a situation in which the soldiers can desert from
it that they do not go off in numbers, and in the Peninsula
they carry to the enemy the only intelligence which he can
acquire. (Hear.) With this knowledge, I seldom, if ever,
use the foreign British troops of this army on the duty of
outposts; and, whatever you may determine regarding the
2d Italian Regiment, I recommend the same practice to your
consideration."
(Loud- laughter.) Rut, says the noble lord in the address
which he has made to us to-night, this is the moat absurd
opposition which has been suddenly raised ; it cannot be
tolerated for a moment ; it is against the spirit of the age
and against every patriotic feeling, and we cannot cars yon
the war without this measure. Every nation, we are toad,
even the French nation, is at this moment employing
foreign troops, and has a foreign legion. That is the
position of the noble lord. lam going now to quote
from a French newspaper; it is from memory, but
I pledge myself for the accuracy of my quotatiin.
I would not quote from a French newspaper if it
were before those exploits with regard to the press
-to which only one of her Majesty's Ministers eau
do justice--(laughter)—but I ant quoting a (keened semi ..
official statement in the Constitutionnee —a paper which ap-
pears under the highest authority—and it is a statement with
regard to the cause of the surprise which, to use the language
of the Conditutionnel, caused the shedding of so much of the
best blood of the finest armies in the world. According to
the semi-official Constitutionne/, the members of the foreign
legion of France deserted to the enemy, the Emperor of
Russia, whom the noble lord, the Secretary of State, is to
defeat by the foreign legion ; they gave him, or rather his
generals, accurate infermatiou of all the weak points of our
position, of those parts which had been
The unfortunately, but
Constitutionnel
perhaps inevitably neglected. (Hear-)
deplores this. It says there is not a braver body of men than
the foreign legion in the service of France; their courage is
most undaunted, their achievements are the achievements of
_ the most desperate valour ; but being foreigners, and not ani-
mated by the same feelings as Frenchmen.
n and Englishmen,
they took the first opportunity of giving i to the
enemy, which has spread desolation through every home in
this country. (Hear, hear.) And here, perhaps, I might re-
mind- the Secretary at War, who said just now that there
never was a general who complained of having too many
troops ; I am surprised that he cannot recall ono of the most
interesting despatches from the puke of Wellingtena written

after the failure of the expedition to Walcheren. The duke
was then in a position of inimense difficulty, at the head of a
force of only 20,000 men in the Peninsula, and a magnificent
army-, in consequence of an ill-conceived scheme by the Thig.
lish Ministry of the day, had been dettroyed and wasted, not-
withstanding their valour and discipline, in the expedition to
Walcheren —(htler, hear)—where 40,000 men had been put
49rs de t'crmbat, whose aid would have been invaluable to'
Wellesley. The Duke of Wellington wrote to Lord Batlairet,
believe (I speak from memory ; he paid, " Let me give you some
consolation for the deplorable consequences of the Walcheren
expedition. If the 40,000 men had been sent to me, I
could not have 'received them; 20,000 is as much as I can
manage in this country, with imperfect suiplies, and the im-
mense difficulties I have to meet." I would not have men-
tioned it to any other minister but to the Secretary at War.
I think that is a despatch which the right hon. gentleman
mar think it necessary to read before he again makes a simi-
iarstatement to that which he has made to-night. Now, sir,
I have not dabbled at all in the constitutional objections to
this plan of the Government. I say that is for the sentiments
of the people of England to deal with, and all we, as their re-
presentatives, have to do is to see that there is nothing legally
unconstitutional in ally act to which we give our assent. I
think I have offered some Bets for the consideration of the
house which will make it hesitate. before adopting that esti-
mate of the value of the foreign legion which the noble lord
has indulged us with. I do not think the Secretary of State
is a very high authority on the subject of a foreign legion. I
think the Secretary of State's opinion of the militia is of more
importance than upon the subject of the enlistment of foreign
troops. The noble lord greatly praised the foreign • legion
which served in Spain. I' do not think it resulted in any-
thing creditable to British feeling, or in any advantage to the
throne of Spain; but when he rises to eulogise the merits of
the English militia, I think he has better cause to speak than
when we hear bins praising foreign mercenaries. (Hear.)
Now I come to the policy of this proposition. Under the
present circumstances 1 think that, irrespectively of all other
considerations, looking merely to the merits of the proposi-
tion, I can prove that the 'measure the Government is pr 'pos-
ing is one that will be fruitlessand.barren of the results which
i desires from it. Let us look at the policy of the measure.-
Here we are engaged in a war which even the highest authority
now calls a great war. You, the ministers, omit no opportunity
now of dwelling upon the magnitude of the peril, and of the
greatness of the resources of the enemy with whom you are con-
tending. The country watches with anxiety the conduct of your
army 3,000 miles from home. There is a solemn convict on in
the public mind that this is a crisis in the struggle between the
Western Powers and Russia. Parliament is suddenly called
together—so suddenly that, even at the last moment, Minis-
as, as it were, changed their mind. The attention of the
whole of Europe is attracted to the events of this important
assembly, especially when it assembles under circumstances
so remarkable. It is announced that we aro assembled toge-
ther in order that her Majesty's Ministers might communi-
cate to the Council of the nation for its adoption and sanction
those great measures which the Government thinks adequate
for the exigencies of the time. The noble lord the Secretary
Of State, who has just sat down, has taunted this side of the
house with always pressing on the Government to take mea-
sures equal to the exigencies of the moment, and, when the
first measure is proposed in that they cavil at and criticis it.
That was not a generous taunt on the part of the noble lord—
(hear)—generosity may not be much valued in the House of
'Commons though I hope truth may long linger among us;
but, I venture to say that the taunt is not just, for the Go-
vernment has received no obstacle whatever, in the conduct
of the war, from the Opposition. (Hear, hear.) There has
not been a' vote proposed by them which has not been cheer•
fully acceded to them. The Ministers might have had any
amount of money or of men for merely asking for it. They
knew they might count upon us for a cordial, sincere, and
earnest support of their policy, and I say, sir, they received
it. It is not, therefore, just on the part of the Secretary of
State to rise now and, having entirely failed in defending a
measure which I am bound .to say I am not surprised that ho
failed to defend—for even his talents must be sometimes
baffied—he was not justified in attempting to cover his re-
treat by casting reproaches in the faces of the people of
England, and of the Opposition. (Hear.) The noble lord
has attempted to convey that he and his colleagues have
experienced from us a factions opposition ; that we have
cavilled at their policy, taunted them into action, and at
the moment when they demand our support we refused
it. It is a notorious fact—and no misrepresentation can
disguise it from the people of this country—that, instead
of taking ad vantage of the difficulties of the Government as
Oppositions before now have done. (Hear.) Instead of
throwing obstacles in their way, we have said from the first,
" Act with frankness and firmness, and you may count on the
same support from us that you would expect from the
adherents you most trust." From that line we have never
deviated. I say, then, under these circumstances, I can con-
ceive nothing more impolitic than a minister coming down to
Parliament, not asking to embody the national force, or for
very large votes, or for the grant of a great number of men,
or for any other measure which shows a consciousness that
they are embarked in an almost internecine struggle ; but
they come forward with one only measure, which I have
shown from the records of experience to be of so imperfect
and paltry a character. (Hear, hear.) I want to know what
effect the noble lord supposes it will have on European
Cabinets and public opinion abroad ? I will riot quote an
authority similar to that which I have already quoted,
which I did as a matter of fact, but I read to-day in an
organ which does exercise great influence in Europe,' not un-
friendly to the Western Powers, ,I believe, though it takes a
moderate and mitigated view of these important transactions
—a great continental authority—l read an article on the
policy of the Government, concluding with the observation
" all we can deduce from the policy of the English Ministry
is that the recruiting powers of England are exhausted."
(Hear, hear.) I ask the noble lord, and the President of the
Council, or any gentleman in the house, is not that a fair
inference and the only one to draw? (Hear.) Can any
one doubt that is the opinion which will affect the con-
duct of public men and nations It will affect the
conduct of these German Powers of which we hate heard
so much. Do you think that the Austrian treaty,
which we were called upon to congratulate the
Throne for—do you think the results of that are
likely to be more important because of the impression
that the recruiting power of the country is exhausted ?
But, sir, if that is the effect upon foreign countries, is it
possible to.ehut our oyes to what the effect may be on our
own country ? (Hear. hear.) Does anybody believe that the
tendenCy of this important measure—important I mean as
to the spirlt:iti which it is conceived, and that of the measure

that we deliberated upon yesterday, in any other than to
damp the readiness of the people. of this country to rally
_ _

round the standard of the Sovereign ? I believe, sir, that
that is the universal impression and the conviction which pre-
vails in every class of the community. Well, I say, is this
the policy—is this the conduct that wise, experienced% and
responsible statesmen, the Minister of a country like England
should pursue at this moment ? Tell me, as we have been told
to-night, that we can only enlist boys, when the experience of
every gentleman in this house convinces him of the fallacy of
that observation—(hear)—and, if it be not fallacious, the ob-
servation is only more unwise and injurious. - But to make
statements of this kind, which aro not to be decided by the
experience of any gentleman wherever be sits, but by statisti-
cal documents and that body of information as to the resources
of the country which is in the possession of every well-in-
formed person, is to me a most extraordinary proceeding.
Why, the returns of the census contradict you—every public
document of your own officers contradicts your assertion. The
state of the population of the country is not such as that it
can only furnish for recruits those who are mere boys. It is
not the truth in theory -it is not the fact in practice ; and
it is impossib' e that the noble lord can rise and tell us in sober
sadness that it is not in his power to-morrow, if he appeals to
Parliament, to raise 100,000 men who are not boys; it is im-
possible that he can make that statement and receive for it
the sanction of the House. Well, if that be so, ought it to have
been made I and is not the making of such statements as those
of the noble lord and his colleagues calculated at this me •
ment to paralyse the conduct of the Government, and to palsy
the spirit of the country; and, instead of bringing about a
successful and triumphant issue, rather to—l will not say,
consummate the catastrophes that may be impending, but
to prepare a future full of anxiety and gloom to this coun-
try ? (Hear.) We have been told in the course of this debate
—and it has been mentioned very elaborately iu the course of
this short session—that the cause of our inconvenient and
injurious position as a military power in a state of war is,
that the country has resolved always to maintain a peace
establishment. Now, sir, is that true ? Is that accusation
against the House of Commons made by Ministers to-night,
and on other occasions, founded on fact ? I have bad o3ine
experience in this house, and many hon. gentlemen around
and before me have bad longer experience, and I do uot re-
member any appeal made ou the responsibility of a Govern-
ment in time of peace to the House of Commons for the in-
crease of our establishment which has not been responded to
with a hearty and generous confidence. (Hear.) Why, what
took place under the administration of Sir R. Peel ? There
were many circumstances at that time which, if not of a very
olarming and perplexing character in our foreign relations,
were at least not such as could be placed before the country
to agitate its spirit and excite its enthusiasm so as to raise for
the support of the Ministry that immense fund of public feel-
ing and sentiment which you have now the advantage to
command. But still they were grive and serious matters,
causing to the distinguished• Cabinet of which Sir R. Peel
was chief the utmost anxiety. They had considerably to
increase the naval and military establishments of the
country. Did this house then refuse to support Sir R. Peel,
though he asked for au increased expenditure of several mil-
lions? What happened in 1852, when you had a Whig Go-
vernment not supported by the majority of the House of Com-
mons, and not only supported by such .a majority, but
which met us on every occasion by factious combination
and sinister intrigue ? What occurred then ? There were
circumstances which made it our duty ,even under such a state
of things, to appeal to the House of Commons for an increase
of our forces. Did that House of Commons, anxious and
ready as it was to throw every impediment in our way—did
it, when the Ministry seriously appealed to it, refuse its
assent to the proposition ? No. The Secretary at War, on
this and another occasion, has dilated with much eagerness
on the difficulties of the position of the Government from the
imperfect establishments which they had at their command,
but has never had the generosity to admit that, weak as our
Government was, we increased the force of the army and also
of the navy ; that we created a Channel fleet and put our Ar-
tillery in an efficient state. lam not saying this in any spirit
of boastfulness, but in answer to the charge that has been
made against this house. I say, both at the period of Sir R.
Peers administration, and at the period of the administration
of which I had the honour to be a member, appeals were made
to the House of Commons, from the nature of affairs without
any communication of causes—appeals were made to the con-
fidence and patriotism of this house, 4and these appeals were
responded to. Well, if that be true p say great is the re-
yfoaereeeadimugonth had
18w5h3o—s uwdhdoe nb
el to office
at the beginning of the •
of re-
sponsibility of those Minyisetaeirs.
ho did not under these
circum-
stancesthe partition of Turkey—who elapsed were aw tre that the Emperca Russia had proposed
necessary. But.,
says the Secretary of State, " Make preparations. in
.times of
make the preparations that were
on—
the Minister would be mad who would propose such a thing.'
peace—make preparations when negotiations were going
Why, when is a Government to make preparations but under
prepara-
such circumstances and in such a position I All the
tions made by your predecessors for the last 50 years, preli-
were preparations
minary to war, or in confirmation of Peace,
and there was no declaration of war. It was
made in this same manner. You had your militia. called out,
to your negotiations if you lead increased your forces very
largely instead of Ter,' slightly. This occurred in the year
no impediment
1853; but what did you do in IS. 54—(hear, hear)--when you
mm;i3thyaovue
wbeereenocuontshcieoupsof.ionit•
,aiymeadrerthcaetiw.thaiii•iv7s. inevitable?oontinc,encies,
of even declaring wa •1, which ultimately you did declare—
when
even in the previous autumn the nation was absolutely
calling on you to take decided measures,you did even
n-
duct then I Why, when you declared wa •
those measures which would have
l
tcoalpamasistitehsisabnidlltpe(nHeecaers,sitiyieaorf.)caAllinieve
dif-
ferent position which would, hav
this yt
parliamenteed udi dgi youin• aa your
vuotneuooargrttyei takee
ot ohn ea
of leads me to the
nonstishiedeCraoutinocnil,
conduct of the war, which the noble President
has, I think, unnecessarily brought under our
yofbrought
and which the Secretary of State has ostentatiously
before us. I leave the noble lord to his eulogium
pe-
culiar naval power of England, and of the magnificent achieve-
ments ments which, under the well-considered expeditions of the
ve.
Government, have been accomplished in the Baltic. (A laugh.))
" But," says the noble lord, the Secretary of State "
i We Org

asked why we went to Sebastopol ?" Why I don't kilo* that
anybody asked the noble kirci that queetion. (A latigh.) t
expect Sortie day that he Will ask us that. I expect that the time
Will come when her Majesty's ministers will give an ample
information on that subject ; but I have not heard any one
so presumptuous as to enter into any criticism on the scheme
and conduct of these campaigns. I did hear a minister the
other night —the Seeretaey at War—offer an ingenious argil=
tient iu vindication of the Government of which he is a Went-
ber for the military exploits of the campaign which they had
recommended and achieved. The Secretary at War said that
the country insisted upon their going to Sebastopol. (Hear,
and a laugh.) Most extraordinary ! I always thought that
ministers were men of superior minds, with the advantage of
peculiar and exclusive information—that by that combination
of intellect, experience, and knowledge they exhibited, they
did, upon all grave matters, follow- the course which was for
the greatest advantage of the community whose affairs they
were called upon by their Sovereign to guide, and who acted
under a responsibility not merely to the present, but to the
future. Are we, then, to believe that the present ministers
are men who, undertook'expeditions of the great importance
of this invasion of a province of the enemy only because
public opinion insisted upon their doing so? (hear)—that
though they might be in complete ignorance of all those cir-
cumstances which should guide opinion—though it was a leap
in the dark, they were prepared to • take that leap because
public opinion goaded them to do it ? (Hear, hear.) Why,
Sir, if that be the state of affairs —if these are the rules that
regulate the conduct of prudent men like the Ministers of the
Queen -I say, why are they Ministers of the Queen ? Why
should they be responsiVe if public opinion is to be the only
impulse to their actions, and they are to undertake the most
precipitate conduct against their own convicelous, in violation
of the knowledge they possess, simply because public opinion
calls on them to achieve that ;which is rash and to accomplish
what is impossible. But the Secretary at War said something
more the other night. He seemed to say that it was not merely
the people out of doors, but people in doors—gentlemen on
this side of the house, and members of Parliament, who had
urged the Government"to take a decided course, and to at-
tack Sebastopol. I don't mean to say that upon that subject
members of Parliament have not given lunch, and perhaps very
foolish advice to her Majesty's Ministers ; - but if they have
given it, there was no reason why her Majesty's Ministers
should adopt it. (Hear.) This, however, I will say, that no
gentleman on this side of the house has ever given that advice
to her Majesty's Ministers—that no one sitting on this side of
the house ever said, " Invade the Russian empire, and attack
Sebastopol." On.the contrary, Sebastopol was• never men-
tioned on this side of the house but once, and then it was by
myself, in answer to the strange and startling speech of the •'
Lord President, in which I, in company with hundreds,
did Understand in the mouth of July that he announced ,
to Europe and Asia that the British Government had re-
solved upon • invading the Crimea and besieging Sebastopol.
(Hear, hear, hear.) Then I did say—speaking, I am sure,
the opinion of my friends around me—that I had heard that
declaration, not only with surprise, but consternation, and
I think the noble lord the Secretary for War can hardly
pervert that speech into an encouragement to undertake
a siege. (Cheers.) That there were appeals made by other
members of Parliament, the right faithful and trusty friends
of Government, I don't at all deny, but I am not responsible
for the observations of those gentlemen. You share their
confidence, and they share yours. (" Hear," and cheers.)
But, if.there must be a responsibility for your conduct—
which lam not now at all entering into—if you persist in the
habit of attempting to shuffle off the responsibility. of your
conduct on what is called the public, or members of Parlia-
ment, let it be clearly understood that it was not the Conser-
vative portion which urged you to that course, and that we
reserved to ourselves the right opportunity to examine into
your policy, when the noble lord and yourselves would con-
descend to give us the reasons for the course you had taken.
(Cheers.) Sir, I feel myself that this is a subject which we
should now treat with the utmost delicacy, lam not going,
inSnite of the boastful speech of the Secretary-at-War, and
in spite of the assertions of the noble lord the Lord President
of the Council—l am not going to be drawn into a discussion
as to the conduct of the war as planned and schemed by the
Government. I feel persuaded the time will come when this
house will expect that upon the policy of the Government
there should be a full and a complete discussion. (" Hear,
hear," and cheers.) The country knows now that one of the
greatest expeditions ever sent (net by the energies of this
nation was ordered by her Majesty's Government to invade
the Crimea and to besiege Sebastopol. Since the expedition
against Sicily by the Athenians, I do not know that there
ever teas an expedition from which so much was expected, or
upon which so much was at stake. (Hear, hear.) There is
unhappily in the commencement of both these expeditions
too much similarity. The schemers were arrogant, boastful,
and over-sanguine. There were too many Generals in the
Sicilian expedition ; there was too little cavalry ; there was
a winter campaign, and there was neereserve. (Hear.) When
hon. gentlemen go into the country in a few days— I under-
stand they are to be absent a month—there may be moments
when the battue is exhausted, and when there may be a
frost. I recommend hon. gentlemen at such a time to re-
fresh their memories by turning to the pages of " Thucydides,"
and reading the despatch of Nicias to the Athenians, espe-
cially where he says, " Men of Athens, 1 know you do not
like to hoar the truth ; but understand this—you sent me
out to be a besieger ; but, lo !I am besieged." (Hear,
hear," and cheers.) Now, sir, we know what was the end
of the Sicilian expedition. May Divine Providence, guarding
over the expedition in which we have embarked, save us from
a similar conclusion, but at least let us do now what the
Athenians did oven in their proud despair. They sacrified to
the gods and appealed to the energies of their countrymen.
We, at a moment not, I believe, of equal danger, axe in a
situation which I pray may end in triumph, but still a situa-
tion of doubt, of peril, and of anxiety, if unwisely we bring
in a bill in order to enlist foreign mercenaries to vindicate the
fortunes of England. (Loud cheers.)
Mr. MUNTZ said he did not approve of foreign aid being
sought until the resources of our own country in providing
men for the army had been exhausted. Ile was decidedly of
opinion that if the Government gave a large bounty, and had
Englishmen instead of foreigners, they would obtain as many
men as they wanted. What would have been the fate of the
army at Inkerman if we had had foreign troops to defend our
position instead of our Guards' 1 (Opposition cheers.) Why,
the whole army would have been driven into the.sea. If they
were determined not to raise men in our own country, they
should at least take the next best- step, and go to our allies.
(Cheers.) They could not find any such men as those of the
Emperor of France among their foreign auxiliaries. The
French had an army of 400,000 men, 100,000 of whom were
at Boulogne doing nothing. 'lf they believed the Emperor of
France to be sincere, he (Mr. Mentz) thought it was the
bounden duty of the Government to make an application to
him. (Hear.) One Frenchman would bo worth half a dozen
of such refuse as they were about to pick up from all parts
of the world. (Hear, hear.) It was very clear that he (the
hon. member) could not vote for this bill. He could not vote
from party spirit. (Hear, hear.) Somebody was certainly at
fault for the way in which the war had been carried on, and
the government had not corrected that fault. Why did they
go to Sebastopol at such a season of the year, and with such
an inferior force'? The great Duke of Marlborough did not
attack a place in this way—he did not attack upon one side,
and leave the other open. There had been a series of blun-
ders from beginning to end. He should like to be informed
who it was that made a treaty with Austria, and allowed
them to enter the Principalities, and thus permit the Russians
to march out and with all their generals and other troops in•
vest our army in the Crimea? (Hear, hear.) He was most
anxious to give his support to any Government that wished
to carry on the war with spirit and energy, but he could
never vote for such a measure as the one now before the
house.
Mr. DEEDES said he was one of many in that house, and
be doubted not, certainly, one of thousands out of it, who
had engaged iu this struggle those who were near and dear to
them. The noble lord (Lord J. Russell) in putting the quer,.
tion, upon the ground of his desire to relieve the wants and
sufferings of the army in the Crimea, had begged it altogether,
If there were no other means of sending relief to their troops,
it might be a question whether the' private feelings of hon.
members would justify their giving a vote against their pub-
lic opinions; but he (Mr. Deedes) felt this was not the only
measure to which recourse might be had. He should vote
from a conviction that if he supported the bill he should be
doing that which was not cansonant with the feeling of the
country. (Hear, bear.)
Lord J. RUSSELL Sir, the right hon. member for
Buckinghamshire has said thai we have endeaioured to
throw off from our own shoulders the expedition to the
Crimea, and to attribute it to public opinion and to the
statements of some members of this house. I beg
leave to say, on behalf of her Majesty's Government,
that they wish to throw off no part of the responsibility ; as
the Executive Government, it belonged to them to decide
whether such an expedition should be undertaken—they con-
sidered it very deeply, and in their opinion it was a measure
calculated• to promote the success of the war. But with re•
gard to the measure now before the house the responsibility
will not be that alone of the Executive Government; they,
have brought it forward conceiving that it would tend to the
Success of the war, and let us see what has been said in op-
position. The noble lord opposite said that ht, with great
reluctance, came forward to oppose that which the Govern-
ment -thought necessary to the conduct of the war; °Vier
hon. gentlemen have stated the same reluctance, yet have not
fairly considered tho present situation of affairs, nor the re-
niedies,to bo applied. Nov`, the state of affairs is this—you
have voted - and fairly and liberally voted—a large number
of men, but you have not by that vote obtained the number
of men you wished to recruit, for no less than 20,000 men
have fallen short of the vote (hear, hear)—besides this,
many of those who were reported were so young as to be
called, as they were—and properly so—by my noble friend,
mere boys. (Hear, hear.) The right hon. gentleman says
that it is not a fair statement, -and that hon. members know
that it is not so ; but I will tell you that my Lord Raglan,
writing trona the Crimea, complains that those sent out to
him, and that were draughted, to join the regiments, were so
young, being below 18 years of age, that many went into the
hospital, and could not be introduced into his ranks. (Hear,
hear.) Then .we are told in reply, that the whole country
is for carrying on the war with vigour, and why not rely on
the country ? These are grave but very vague terms. No
doubt there are many landowners, and merchants, and others
who declare in favour of the war, who support the Patriotic
Fund, and who come forward liberally to supply the means ;
but if you want soldiers they are not of the station or age to
enlist, and therefore all this enthusiasm, though good— (Qh!
from the Opposition benches, and cheers)—does not give
the 10,00) men you are in want of. Some hon. gentleman,
had said—why not ask for more men I It would have had
a very great appearance to havb come and asked for 50,000
men. We should have been much applauded for our vigour;
but, to have asked for additional men, with 20,000 short of
the last vote, would have been absurd. (Hear, hear.) Well,
then, it is said, lower the standard and increase the bounty.
(Opposition cheers.) The standard has been lowered, the
bounty has been increased, men have been allowed to enlist
up to 30 years of age. You might say, allow men to enlist
at 35 years of age, but the number of men who would come
forward between 30 and 35 years of age would be very small.
(" No, no.") For the number between those ages is not near
so great as between other periods. Such being the case, with
these very doubtful expedients suggested we have ventured
to propose, and conforming t 3 the precedent of the last war,
that we should be enabled to got men from foreign countries.
It is raid, " You may rely on the enthusiasm of the country,
and men will he forthcoming." You might just as well say,
Do not go to Liege for Minie rifles, for there is plenty of
ore and coal in the country, and in time we may obtain the
rifles." So, in time, these men would become soldiers, but
the question is whether, within the next four months, we
could obtain an additional supply. (Hear, hear.) The hon.
member far Birmingham says that we had no such men as
these Germans at lukerman ; but, if we hal, bad some of
those men who fodght with the Puke of Wellington in va-
rious battles, I should say that we had an addition to our
brave infantry which would have b en of great service, and
that the bloodshed on the part of our army would have been
much less. The rght hon. gentleman mentions various
occasions in which desertions of German Soldiers have taken
place, but there was one thing' he omitted, and a very im-
portant one—viz., that there was a custom that the Ger-
man prisoners who wore brought to this country were al-
lowed to go back and enter the German regiments; these
German prisoners having served in the French army, finding
the discipline of our army irksome to them, went back to
the French. It is not such a force that we propose to collect.
The right hon. gentleman read instances of 14 deserters, 11
of whom were caught, one shot, and two escaped, and there
he ended ; buter e
manthel wettehro tttozhioc u joinedhlyrefeth de rgoeimassonontt twoosay
that thee w