The Sun.
London, England, 1853-10-15 00:00:00

actly on the same footing. But my hon. friend forgot
tell you that the French have an army of 400,000 or
500,000 men, and that Britain has an army in this country
of little more than 20,000 men. (Hear, hear.) With al
the great exertions which the Government could make the
other day, and with all the military display at Chobham,
what did it produce? The first division consisted of 8,000
men, and the reserved division consisted of 8,000 men, but
they could not assemble their 16,000 men at one time at
the camp at Chobham. (Cheers.) Well now, supposing
we follow Mr. Cobden's advice and the opinion of the
Peace Society, which I most perfectly respect, and that.
their views are perfectly right—(applause)—if you can pos-
sibly carry them into execution—(laughter)—but, suppose
we have only an army of 20,000 men, and the French have
an army of 400,000 or 500,000 men, which there is no
doubt they have ; and that with only this small force a
quarrel arise between France and us. My friend will per.
haps tell me that we have no right to quarrel, and there i
no necessity for it, that we might live at peace, and must
be persuaded to keep the peace. But should it unfortu-
nately happen that we are not at peace, what is to prevent
the French from embarking any number of men they
thought fit, from seizing our stern boats, and from coming
over to our country ; and, let me ask, how are we to defend
ourselves? (Cheers.) Are we to be laid bare and open
before all the world ? Are all our men and women to be
exposed to the French army, or any of her army that may
come over here ?—because quarrels and misunderstandings
will take place. We have seen them take place, and that
not long ago; and I will explain what did take place at
that very time to which I refer, and which will show
you dangers which you were not perhaps aware of. I
read this morning a speech of my friend Mr. Cobden, in
which he gave you a very amusing relation that is quite
true. He supposes that a gentleman had left this country
a year ago, and who, when he left, had seen the militia
called out, because there was a talk:of a French invasion.
He goes out to Australia, and never reads a newspaper till
he has made a circuit of the world. On coming back, how
astonished he is to find the English and French fleets,
lying side by side, with their broadsides to each other, but
not for hostile purposes, but entertaining each other in the
most amicable manner possible. But what caused that ?
It was the unjustifiable quarrel which Russia had against
Turkey. (Cheers.) I will accompany Mr. Cobden first to
Australia with another friend. Suppose another friend
goes to Australia in the same vessel, and that previous to
his going he had been in the City of London Tavern, and
had heard Mr. Cobden talk about crumpling up Russia
like a piece pf brown paper, and if, from the period he had
left till he returns home, he had never read a newspaper,
and that the first thing he sees is that Russia is very
quietly walking into the two Principalities, what would he
, think of that ? He would think, at all events, that they
had not been crumpled up. (Loud cheers.) Mr. Cobden
had been trying to-night to explain away what he had said
then ' • and he had great power in making you believe
almost anything he chose. (Laughter.) After stating
that naval and military officers had no cause to be fond of
war, seeing the great risk they ran, the gallant Admiral
said, I will now tell you exactly the position in which the
English and French fleets were some years ago, es Mr.
Cobden had informed you that they were now lying peace-
ably beside each other in Besika Bay. It is just twelve
years ago since they were lying in Besika Bay in the same
peaceful manner. We were lying cheek by jowl appa-
rently on the most friendly terms ; but while that was the
case what were the French doing but meditating to destroy
our fleet—
Mr. COBDEN—Then why go there again ?
Sir C. NAPIER—My honourable friends asks me why we
should go there again to lie side by side. That is another
question ; but let us look at the exact state of matters at
the period to which I was referring. France differed with
the allied powers about the last Eastern question. Whether
we were or were not right is not now the question ; but
France differed in opinion from us. She withdrew her
fleet from Besika Bay to Toulon ; she increased her fleet
by the enormous means she has in her power to twenty sai
of the line. With the greatest exertions we could possibly
make we have mustered no more than fourteen or fifteen
sail in the Mediterranean at the moment France had 20.
It was contemplated by Monsieur Thiers, who was then
at the head of the French Government, to surprise the
British fleet, and thus to save Mehemet Ali, who had
also a large fleet at Alexandria. It was Sir Robert
Peel who said he had three courses to follow. Now,
one or other of these courses would have been at
least destructive to us. The first course was to bring the
twenty sail of the line to Alexandria to enclose the Turkish
fleet, and to drive us from the coast, and had he done that
he would have accomplished his object and have relieved
Mehemet Ali. Then as to the second course. He was
lying at Toulon a full month or six weeks in advance of us.
The whole force we had was 15 or 16 sail of the line in the
Mediterranean, dispersed all over the coast. We could not
move a single line-of-battle ship in England. Now, I ask
the ladies and gentlemen here assembled what would have
been the situation of this country in case of a war, with
the French fleet at Cherbourg, and with not one single
ship in this country manned ? . What was there to prevent
the sending an army of 50,000 or 60,000 men over to this
country, and who would have defended you ? (Hear.)
Would our 10,000 or 15,000 troops do, because we had no
more ? And yet my hon. friend has still a wish to disarm
this country. In consequence of the remonstrances which
he and the Peace Society made to Lord John Russell and
the Whig Government iu 1848, they succeeded in diminish*
ing the fleet to almost nothing ; and I believe that the Em-
peror of Russia would never have attempted this aggression
against Turkey if we had a fleet at the time who could
have said, " Keep the peace." (Cheers.) My hon. friend
talks of economy. Let me ask him where is the economy?
In 1848, through his exertions—l give him credit for it—
(a laugh)—for he can almost do anything he undertakes,
particularly with the Whig Government—(laughter)—in
1848 he succeeded in diminishing the English troops by
5,000 or 6,000, and in getting paid off six or seven sail of
the line for two or three years ; and these ships were put
in ordinary after they had been full manned and full disci-
plined, and ready for whatever might occur ; and what
happens ? Why, we were just again, in the course of two
years, about to recruit the army ; the Whig Government
was afraid of my hon. friend, and it was the Tory Govern-
ment (I give them credit for it) who were bold enough to
come forward and tell the country that it was necessary to
increase the army and navy, and they carried the proposi-
tion through the House of Commons, I may say with accla-
mation. My hon. friend, I remember, made a speech on
the occasion, stating that he would not resist the proposi-
tion, because if the Ministry asked for 20,000 men he be-
lieved it would be carried with acclamation. We have now
a decent and respectable force. (Laughter and cheers.)
But my hon. friend has spoken of what France has done,
and what we have done, and gives us a rebuke. He says
we began with the war steamers. My hon. friend is mis-
taken. The French began erecting war steamers long before
us, and we were obliged to do the same. The same thing
took place in regard to screw steamers. It was the French
land not wo who began them ; and we got so frightened
about the matter, seeing what our neighbours had done,
that the Government set vigorously to work, and we have
established now a screw force which I believe will ensure
to the country perfect security and safety. And if the
people of this country do not choose to pay an insurance
for their safety and protection, let them come forward
with the Peace Conference and petition the Government
to destroy the army and navy, leaving the protection of
the country to whoever chooses. I cannot, however, bring
myself to believe that the people of this country—that the
people of Scotland, on the whole of whose coasts from the
far north to the Tweed, there is hardly a gun mounted to
resist the smallest gun-boat that chooses to attack them—
I can hardly believe that they will adopt any such course.
(Cheers.) Is this the position in which this great country
ought to be left in ? And I also say, that unless you have
and keep up a proper force so long as other nations keep
up large forces, we cannot be safe for one single moment.
Now, we come to the great question which is agitating
Europe at the present moment. I have not the smallest
doubt that we remonstrated with Russia when we under-
stood that she was going to attack Turkey. You may re-
member that our minister at Constantinople called upon
the admiral in the Mediterranean to come up immediately
to Constantinople. The admiral declined going there, and
I think most properly. At that time, through my hon.
friend's exertions, our navy was reduced to nothing. We
had not two ships in England, and Russia had a fleet of
27 sail of the line at Cronstadt. I do not say that that
fleet was manned by first-rate seamen ; but, I regret to
say, no more is our fleet at present. But Russia had a
fleet, and we had nothing. We, therefore, wisely ab-
stained from doing anything till we got ourselves placed
in a proper position. (Hear, hear.) Still, however, if our
Government had shown more energy after we had got our
fleet in a proper state of preparation—if we had said to
Russia, if you cross the Pruth we will send our fleet to
Cronstadt, and our fleet combined with that of Frances
my own opinion is that Russia would never have crossed
the Pruth. (Cheers.) Now, Russia has crossed the Pruth,
and I want to know how you are to get her back again.
From the season of the year Russia will gain time, and
unless the Government of this country and that of France
take some energetic measures for turning her out, she will
am
probably stay where she is. Don't suppose
t w i s
particu-
larly friendly to the Turks. I do not care if the Turks
were across the Bosphorus to-morrow ; but I I
don't
to see their place taken by Russia. (Cheers.) I think
it will be the most unfortunate thing for Europe at.
large and for this country if Russia gets the Christian.
population of Turkey under her dominion After show-
ing the great extent of country over which Russia would
n that case bear sway, and stating that if she succeeded
Russia would exclude this country from the Baltic and
the Mediterranean, he said that this country was bound
to do everything in her power to prevent Russia
moving further, and to drive her back again. (Cheers.)
In that case this country ought to insist upon the
Turks paying more attention to the Christian subjects
in this country than had hitherto been the case, and
°
fulfilling all the promises they might make (Cheers.)
Sir Charles, in conclusion, expressed it as his opinion
that if France and England did not come forward hand in
hand, and the other nations of Europe, to prevent the hos-
tilities between Russia and Turkey no
y man would see the
last of that war. He also stated that he was as fond of
peace as any one could be, although he was not one of
those who woLlel support non-resisting opinions, and re-
sumed his seat amid loud and reiterated applause. The
gallant admiral immediately left the meeting.
Mr. BRIGHT, M.P., said the admiral said that the mem-
ber for the West Riding, who could do everything—
(Hear, hear, and laughter)—persuaded a feeble government
to reduce the armaments of this country to nothing. Is
15,000,0001. a-year nothing? (Applause.) We are against
intervention. Now, this question of intervention is a most
important one, for this reason, that it comes before us
sometimes, and asks us by all our love of freedom, by all
our respect for men struggling for their rights, to interfere
in the affairs of some other country ; and we find now in
this country a great number of those who are calling out
loudest for interference are those who, being very liberal in
their politics, are bitterly hostile to the despotism and ex-
clusiveness of the Russian Government. (Cheers.) I
should like to ask this meeting what sort of intervention
we are to have ? Mr. Bright went on to combat the argu-
ment that if Russia got to Constantinople he would be at
Egypt, and we should not be able to go the overland jour-
ney, by saying, that though he did not believe there was
the slightest possibility of anything of the kind happening,
yet, under any circumstances, he did not believe it at all
likely that we should have our mails stopped, or persons,
arrested in passing through Egypt on our way to ,India;
but at all events it must be a much more definite danger
which would drive him to incur the guilt, the suffering,
and the ruin of war. In reply to some who said that
Russia would get to India, he said it was far were likely
that we should invade Russia from India, than that Russia
should invade India. Mr. Bright concluded 'amidst loud
cheering, by enforcing the Christian obligations connected
with the maintenance of peace.
The resolutions of the Conference were cagied,