The Sun.
London, England, 1853-06-24 00:00:00

ING, JUNE 24, 185 3.

passed over rather li ht. y. n the ftnanc a art e
question. Anything more unsatisfactory in ha statements
with regard to Indian finance since the renewal of the
last charter it has never been my lot to see placed before
the English public. (Hear, hear.) Why, out of the 14
years which have elapsed between 1838 and 1850, both in-
clusive, it appears that every single year, with the exception
of 1849 and 1850, shows a deficit. The total amount of de-
ficit on these years is 15,500,0001. sterling, and the actual
result is, that, since the renewal of the charter in 1834,
20,000,0001. has been added to the debt. Of course it will
be said that, after all, it is a most insignificant sum when

compared with the debt of the United Kingdom; but then
there is a great difference in the position of the two coun-
tries. In England you might double your revenue in any
one year of emergency without difficulty ; but I am per-
fectly certain that if you were to attempt to raise in India
the public tax 20 per cent., the attempt would utterly fail.
True, the area of taxation in India has of late years greatly
increased. No one doubts that from India, with the addi-
tion of Scinde, the Punjaub, and other smaller states, you
draw a much larger revenue now than you did before these
accessions of territory, but I think it is very doubtful whe-
ther that increase of revenue has been proportionate to the
extent of territory you have added to your empire there.
It has often been stated that Scinde does not pay its ex-
penses, but then you are always referred to the case of the
Punjaub, and told that, whatever your other annexed ter-
ritories may have done, the Punjaub has always been pro-
fitable. Now, from some cause or other, the territory of
the Punjaub may be profitable. But I find the financial
expenditure and revenue of the Punjaub, within the last
two years, contrasted in this manner. At the beginning I
think of ast year the total revenue of the Punjaub was
2,000,0001., 1,600,0001., of which was derived from the
land. The total civil expenditure, including also the mili-
tary expenditure for certain irregular local troops, was
1,300,0001.; leaving a surplus of 700,0001. to defray the
expenses f the general Government of the Punjaub.
Now, taking the average of the military expenditure
of India, the cost of that part of the army which is
maintained in the Punjaub ought to be about
2,000,0001. That, added to the expense of the civil
Government of the Punjaub, would make a total ex-
penditure for the civil and military services altogether of
about 3,300,000/. ; and seeing that in the year to which I
refer you only drew a revenue of 2,000,000/.lfrom the Pun-
jaub, a deficit remains of 1,300,0001. (Hear, hear.) I now
come to the subject of public works • and I do not deny that
something has been done, especially in the last few years,
in regard to public works in India. (Hear, hear.) I am very
far from denying that, in this respect, some improvements
have undoubtedly taken place. (Hear, hear.) The right hon.
gentleman quoted the other day those three great works—
works of which any Government may be proud—works
which are always referred to when this particular question
is before us. He told us of the Grand Trunk Road, the
Ganges Canal, and the Jumna Canal. But it is not by
taking a few isolated and individual instances that you can
get at what the Government has done in a matter of this
sort. The real and only fair test is to see what proportion
of revenue has been expended upon public works ; and
upon this the details are various and conflicting. I find
it stated by one writer that the amount expended on pub-
lic works is half a million sterling yearly, by another the
amount is put at 350,000/. ; but Mr. Kaye, whose work
has so often been quoted in the course of these discussions,
and who is a very high authority upon the subject, says
the total sum expended upon an average of the last 15
years has not exceeded 300,0001.—the aggregate amount of
the revenue of India at the same time considerably ex-
ceeding 20,000,0001. a year. It may be said, however,
why, after all, should it be so grave a charge against
the Government that it does not take to itself the con-
struction of works which in this country is left to the en-
terprise of private individuals. But the position of the
Government in India is altogether different from that of
the Government of this country, or any other Government
in Europe. (Hear, hear.) In almost every part of India,
with the exception of Bengal,we have assumed that which
is virtually equivalent to the proprietorship of the soil.
(Hear, hear.) We are in the position in India of a great
universal landlord. Ido not say whether the Government
is or is not to be properly considered as landlord ; but I do
say, that where the small proprietors, or the small tenants,
call them which you will, hold directly under the Govern-
ment, and pay a land tax, or a rent exceeding 30 per cent.
upon the total produce, a tax so levied cannot be consi-
dered otherwise than the assertion of a virtual proprietor.
ship. The Government, therefore, takes upon itself the
duties of proprietor of the soil • and I do not think you
will find a landlord in this country who would consider it
sufficient to expend from 2 to 3 per cent. of his gross re-
ceipts upon the repairs and improvements of his land.
(Cheers.) Mr. Kaye has one or two remarks upon this
subject which are well worthy the attention of the house.
(The noble lord then read an extract from the work of Mr.
Kaye, to the effect that over a large portion of north-wes-
tern Provinces of India particularly, all the staple pro-
ducts of the land were at the mercy of the seasons ; that
the droughts were most terrible in their results ; that
Upper India had been visited by periodical famines in con-
sequence ; and that there was absolutely no means of guard-
ing against the recurrence of those calamities, except by the
abundance of irrigation.) Public works, then are not merely
a matter of profit, but a matter of humanity. (Hear, hear.)
With regard to the proportion of the annual revenue which
the Indian Government bestows upon works of public utility
and necessity, I may again quote the testimony given by
Mr. Kaye, himself, be it remembered, the apologist and
eulogist of the Indian Government. (The noble lord here
read another extract from Mr. Kaye's work, in which that
gentleman states that though there has been a progressive
tendency on the part of the Indian Government to promote
public works, yet the amount of money expended in those
works is miserably small in comparison with the immense
sums which have been lavished upon unproductive wars ;
and that roads have not been made, canals have not been
dug, and bridges have not been built, in the number
which the wants of the country demand, solely because the
money necessary for the construction of such works has
been abstracted from the public to meet the expenses of
the ruinous wars in which we have been engaged. Mr. Kaye
added that, in every investigation with regard to the work-
ing of the machinery of the government of India, the re-
sponsibility for this waste of treasury, which, properly ex-
pended, might have conferred incalculable benefits upon
the people of India, should be traced to its source.) That
(continued the noble lord) is the language of the apologist
and the eulogist of the Indian Government. But, before
quitting this subject, allow me to give you a single instance
which is known to myself of the extent to which the neg-
lect of public works has impeded the progress of India.
The instance I am about to give is taken from the Madras
presidency ; and that presidency is considered as not being
behind any other. The presidency is 20,000 square miles
in extent • and two years ago there was in the whole pre-
sidency only one road, which was maintained in any tole-
rable order. That road communicates from Madras to Ar-
cot and Vallore. Now, let the hous e observe the expense
of transit upon that road. A quantity of goods, weighing
1,000 lbs., costs 41 rupees, or 95., for transit the whole dis-
tance, being more than 3d. per ton per mile ; or, for the
whole distance, 18s. per ton. At the same time, the freight
of similar goods from England to Madras was only 7s. per
ton. In other words, it cost more than twice as much to
send the same amount of goods inland from Madras to
Vellore, as it costs to send them all the way from
England to Madras, via the Cape, 15,000 miles by sea.
Of course, the sole defence, the sole argument, attempted
to be set up when a matter of this sort is mentioned is to
say, "We regret it, we lament it, we think it a very un-
satisfactory state of things ; but after all there is a want
of money, and therefore we cannot remedy it." My answer
to that is, that I believe it would be perfectlyright for the
Government of India, even with its present debt, to bor-
row money for the construction of public works. (Hear.)
Remember that in India you have no alternative. These
works must be done by the Government, or they will not
be done at all ; and when we know that the works at this
moment in operation are paying 10 per cent., or more, on
the expenditure for their construction, independently of
the greater certainty which they give you in the collection
of your revenue—when we find that to be the result, I
think it may be reasonably and fairly expected that the
Government of India should not allow any deficiency in
their resources to prevent them from carrying on and ex-
tending works of public necessity, which are also certainly
highly remunerative. The next subject to which I will
briefly allude is that of the judicial administration in India.
And this I will venture to say, that any one who has read
the evidence given before the Parliamentary committees—
any one who has read the work published by Norton on the
Government of India—any one who has read and seen not
merely the assertions and arguments, but the official, in-
disputable, and recorded facts which they contain, must at
once admit that the judicial administration of India is:in a
most unsatisfactory state. I know you have to encounter
great difficulties in your judicial administration in India.
At the very outset you have this difficulty, that the best
legal education can only be obtained in England, and not
in India, and that a knowledge of the manners, habits,
and feelings of the people can only be obtained
in India, and not in England. And, upon the whole, I
think that the general state of the judicature is one that at
this moment requires your most careful and deliberate con-
, sideration. A question equal or next in importance to that
of finance, of judicature, and of public works—is that of
education in India. And I am perfectly ready to admit,
that in the case of Indian education, as well as in that of
the Indian judicature, we have to meet a complication of
difficulties. You had formerly certain classes—they do not
now exist—who were very much averse to any system of
education which was promoted by the English authorities,
and which was calculated, as they thought, to interfere
with the feelings, manners, and habits of the natives. You
have also among Europeans many who, entertaining views
which are perfectly natural, though unsound, believe that
no education should be given to the Hindoos at the expense
of the British Government, unless it is calculated at least
to assist in proselytising the people to Christianity. You
have, moreover, a deficiency of local organisation and local
self-government. through whose instrumentality it might
be possible to raise local funds for the purpose of extending
education over the whole country. I am ready to allow
that all these are obstacles, and obstacles which I do not
desire to underrate. At the same time, when I look at what
has been done, and consider what, even under all the diffi-
culties might have been done, I cannot but think that the
Indian Government has in this respect failed in doing its duty.
The amount expended upon education is about 50,0001. or
60,0001., say the larger sum. This is considerably less than
per cent. on the revenue of the country. Mr. Marsh-
man, in a recent pamphlet, takes a very forcible view of
this. Hear his opinions on the subject—he says, " the sum
devoted to education is so niggardly and so unworthy of a
great company, that I abandon it altogher." The state-
ments of Mr. Marshman are confirmed by the opinion of
the public, and altogether show that, in regard to educa-
tion, the proceedings of the Indian government have been
such as to require a searching examination and inquiry.
I have now concluded. (Hear.) I have to the best of my
ability endeavoured to show to the house that it is impo-
litic as well as inexpedient, to legislate on the subject of
the government of India at the present moment. (Hear.)
I have shown that the dangers of delay so strongly urged
on the other side of the house when first this bill was laid
before it, are futile when they are not imaginary. I have
endeavoured to show that while on the one hand the mea-
sure of the Government effects no substantial reform in the
present system, on the other it does not profess to substi-
tute a better form for that which now exists. I have en-
deavoured to show, taking one after the other, of the
Indian administrations, and in so doing I have expressed
only my conscientious opinion, that in whatever respect
the Indian Governments may have been successful, and I
freely admit that they have been successful in many most
important matters in administering the territory over
which they held control, there is yet, in their administra-
tion of the last 20 years more especially, ample room and
sufficient cause for a strict and searchin* investigation into
their government, before we proceed either to pass a ver-
dict or approval as regards their past conduct, or before
we decide upon leaving in their hands any portion of that
power which they have up to this period of time wielded
in India. I now move the amendment of which I have
given notice :—" That, in the opinion of this house, fur-
ther information is necessary to enable Parliament to legis-
late with advantage for the permanent government of
India ; and that, at this late period of the session, it is
inexpedient to proceed with a measure which, while it
disturbs existing arrangements cannot be considered as a
final settlement."

e question being put,
Mr. LOWE said he could not but express his apprehen-
sion that the latter part of the noble lord's speech had
tended to divert the attention of the house from the real
question before it. The question raised on the second
reading of the bill was whether or not they were to deal
with the future government of India. The question raised
by the noble lord was the preliminary one of whether they
were to go into the question at all, and though he had no
doubt that the noble lord in introducing it acted in con-
formity with a sense of duty, yet he could not but think
that before the debate closed the house would have cause
to regret that he had done so. He feared that throughout
the debate they would be bandied about between the pre-
liminary question and the main question, and he thought
it moat expedient that the house should keep to the issue
raised by the Government. (Hear, hear.) He had to
complain that the noble lord had not only introduced the
preliminary question, but after urging such arguments as
he thought fit in favour of the amendment, had diverged
into others which were quite beside the question, which
was in substance what should be the form of the home
Government. The noble lord's amendment was somewhat
peculiar in its phraseology. The first part of it, according
to the noble lord's own admission, did not bear on the
question before the house at all ; and the second offered a
reason which seemed to him quite inadequate. The amend-
ment was this -" That, in the opinion of this house, fur-
ther information is necessary to enable Parliament to legis-
late with advantage for the permanent government of
India." Now, what had that to do with the question
before the house? (Hear, hear.) The noble earl had told
them over and over again that they were legislating for the
provisional government of India, and he made that an ob-
jection to the measure. If that were the case, the first
clause of the amendment had nothing to do with the ques-
tion, for the Government was not proposing a permanent
measure, and why it was inserted he could not imagine,
unless it was with the view of introducing the popular
topic, that there was not sufficient information. The latter
part of the amendment was equally puzzling—" And that
at this late period of the session it is inexpedient to proceed
with a measure ;"—he should have supposed that the noble
lord was going to say " a measure of immense magnitude,"
that they were going to have another allusion to a permanent
measure, but the words were—" to proceed with a mea-
sure which, while it disturbs existing arrangements, can-
not be considered as a final settlement. (Hear, hear.)
The " late period of the session" might be a very good rea-
son for not going into a measure of a permanent character,
but surely the fact that the measure was not of a perma-
nent character, that it did not aim at settling everything,
was a reason which told them otherwise. (Hear, hear.)
The first part of the resolution, therefore, appeared to him
not to apply to the bill at all ; while the second part af-
forded a reason for doing exactly the contrary of what the
noble lord wanted them to do. (Hisar, hear.) But, pass-
ing that over, he would call the attention of the house to
the state of the case with regard to this measure. They
all knew that last year Parliamentary committees were
nominated by the late Government to investigate the sub-
ject of Indian government. The noble lord said it was not
the intention of the late Government, had they remained
in office, to legislate for India during the present session,
or, at all events, until the committees had made their re-
port. But, let the house observe that the late Government
did Rot let the committees separate until they had obtained
from them a quasi report, in which they stated that, so far
as the evidence had extended, their impression was favour-
able to the company ; and looking at the circumstances of
the case, and especially considering the great convenience
of having a measure passed during the present session, he
was of opinion that, had the late Government remained in
office, they would have proposed during this session a bill
for the renewal of the Indian Government. The noble
lord was, he submitted, now taking a course in opposition
which he would not have taken in office. The noble lord
said it was quite unprecedented that a measure of this kind
should be brought forward so late in the session. This
bill was introduced on the 9th of June. He had referred
to the books to see at what period the bills of 1813 and
1833 were introduced ; he found that the bill of 1813 was
introduced on the 16th of June, seven days later; and that
the bill of 1833 was introduced on the 15th of June, six
days later. (Hear, hear.) So that the present Govern-
ment would not suffer, by a comparison with their prede-
cessors, with regard to the period of proposing the renewal
of the charter. (Hear, hear.) In 1813, Parliament had
not only to deal with the government of India, but with
the monopoly of the India trade ; while in 1833 it had to
settle the complicated question of the monopoly of the
China trade, and the terms on which the East India Com-
pany should cease to be a commercial company. (Hear,
hear.) Notwithstanding this, however, the present Go-
vernment were at least six or seven days more virtuous
than their predecessors. (Laughter.) The noble lord had
reminded the house that the India Bill of 1784 was before
the house for eight months. The circumstances of the case
were peculiar. The bill resulted, as was well known, in
the destruction of the Fox and North Ministry, and when
Mr. Pitt succeeded to office the subject was again intro-
duced. He thought that so far as analogy was concerned
he had now disposed of the question. The noble lord said
the Reform Bill and the Ecclesiastical Titles Bill occupied
a great deal of time. That was very true, and the reason
was perhaps a lamentable one. They knew that the
amount of time which was required to pass a bill through
Parliament depended on the degree of interest which it
excited among large masses of the English people, and the
manner in which they pressed members to take part in the
discussion. If he were required to prove how little in-
terest comparatively this subject excited, it would be
enough to refer to the comparative thinness of the house
during the delivery of the liable lords's own address. (Hear,
hear.) The noble lord said there was ignorance and there
was indecision in England upon this subject. That there
was a considerable amount of ignorance he (Mr. Lowe) ad-
mitted ; bit it did not appear probable that if they waited
a year or two the ignorance which existed would have
been removed. (Hear, hear.) With regard to the second
point, the alleged indecision, he must say that those who
had directed their attention to the subject were far from
appearing undecided. (Hear, hear.) Whatever might be
the difficulties, and he admitted that they were many and
various, of dealing with Indian affairs, the question was
one upon which men who entered into the subject at all
took up and pronounced the most decided opinions. The
noble lord said the house ought to have the opinions of
more of the civil servants from India. Why, they had
banqueted on such opinions to satiety. (Laughter.) They
had collectors, judges, civil officers of all kinds, who could
give them any information. On this point ho must re-
mark, that though gentlemen who had resided in India in
an official capacity gave most admirable and accurate in-
formation with regard to a particular district, they did
not appear to have troubled themselves much about the
rest of India. (Hear, hear.) Though it might be a para-
dox, he believed it to be true that for a general knowledge
of India as a whole—not of particular parts—they should
look rather to England than to India, rather to those who
had been placed at the head of Indian affairs than to those
who had been employed in administering the affairs of
particular districts. (Hear, hear.) The noble lord had
remarked that the East India Company was on its trial ;
that the committees had not yet reported, and that the
question ought not to be decided till they had. He
omitted to state that the jury had interposed with a ver-
dict of acquittal. It was hardly to be expected that, after
doing that, they would turn round and declare that they
were wrong, and that they now wished to convict the
accused. The noble lord then went into a long argument
with regard to the present state of India, and declared
that he did not see any danger of agitation or insurrection.
He (Mr. Lowe) did not perceive any symptoms of insur-
rection ; but he thought it especially desirable that at the
present time the government of India should be as strong
and as much respected by the population as possible. He
would state very briefly his reasons for holding that
opinion. He saw the Eastern world, from one end of it
to the other, in a state of commotion, there being such a
movement all over Asia as had not been witnessed for
centuries. If they looked to the western part of Asia,
they would find a quarrel between Turkey and Russia.
Going a little further south, they found all Arabia per-
vaded by a fanatical spirit—Arabia, which had once con-
quered Asia, and was on the point of conquering Europe.
If they went to the north they found Bokhara iu move-
ment. The empire of China, after being asleep for 200
years, was in a state of insurrection and rebellion ; the
result of which, in relation to Asiatic minds and to coter-
minous countries no one could predict ; and then, coming
southward, they found themselves engaged in a serious and
apparently interminable war with the Burmese. (Ironical
cheers.) He confessed he should admire the patriotism of
hon. gentlemen more if they had not cheered in that man-
ner. (Hear, hear.) Under these circumstances, he thought
it was the bounden duty of Parliament to endeavour to
make the Indian government respected. (Hear.) The
only reason which the noble lord assigned for a delay of
two or three years, was that Parliament had reason to
doubt whether the present government of India was a
good one. He (Mr. Lowe) would put it to the house
whether a state of suspense was likely to be favourable
either to the prestige of English power in India or to
the obedience and subordination of the civil servants
—(hear, hear)—whether, on the contrary, it was not
likely to weaken their hold on India at a moment
when it ought to be held with the firmest hand,
and exposing them to dangers of which no man could fore-
see the result. The noble lord might perhaps retort, that
the government had exposed themselves to that objection
by commencing the bill with the words, "Until Parliament
shall make further provision in that behalf." Let the
house observed the distinction between the two cases. By
putting off the matter for two or three years they would
be in reality prolonging the period of trial, inviting every
one who had anything to say against the form of govern-
ment to come forward, and at the same time expressing
a grave conviction that the system was not a good
one. (Hear, hear.) If the form of government were
not good, let it be changed ; but to destroy a prestige
which had commenced with the time of Lord Clive, would
be extremely reprehensible. On the other hand, what the
government said was this—" We have made the best pro-
vision that our information and intelligence will enable us
to do for the government of India, but we are not wedded
to what we have done, and we are willing to listen to any
complaints which may be made." In fact, they did not,
like their predecessors, propose to tie up their hands for 20
years, they did not intend to let any humour swell till it
was full grown before attempting to apply a remedy.
(Hear.) He could not help remarking, that when the no-
ble lord came to deal with the bill itself, he did not appear
to entertain any verry strong objections to it. (Ministerial
cheers.) Ho mentioned, indeed, one or two provisions as
objectionable ; but to the general scope of the bill he did
not appear to be opposed. The noble lord was in favour of
the principle of double government—(hear, hear)—though
he did not state what he meant by it. What he (Mr.
Lowe) meant by double government was this, that whereas
one body had the control and responsibility, the govern-
ment was carried on in tho name of another body. Tile
noble lord also made some minor objections, which did not
go to the principle of the bill. These were matters for con-
sideration when they got the bill. Then as to the patron-
age, the noble lord should consider that much more of the
patronage was taken away than he had given credit for.
The admission to Addiscombe was to be open to public
competition, which would take away from the company
about 90 appointments in the year, and therefore the noble
lord's calculation as to patronage was hardly correct. The
noble lord said, " If it be right to take away part of the
patronage, why not take all ?" But, this was a great ex-
periment, new to this country—that of opening public ap-
pointments to competition ; and, seeing that the principle
it was to supersede had in practice worked well, it would
not be right to establish the new
one completely, until
there had been taken some preliminary test of its efficacy.
That rule was speecially true as regarded the military ser-
vice. In the civil service the principle of competition could
not go wrong, but they often found that the best soldiers
were men who had not particularly distinguished them-
selves at examinations in early life. (Hear, hear.) As re-
garded the civilians, the noble lord's suggestion with re-
gard to the children of officers would probably be adopted.

With regard to the civil service generally, the course of
the Government was beyond all controversy right. The
civil service of India was different from all others. In
other places if yon got an incompetent civil servant, an-
other might assist him in his duty, but in India there
was an enormous amount of individual responsibility
thrown on every servant of the Company. A collector
sent to any di? trict might not only collect the reve-
nue, but also inflict misery on thousands of human
beings. The most sacred duty of Government, therefore, was
not merely to get persons of average ability for these situa-
tions, but to get , the very best men that could be found,
and not to sacrifice the interests of the country to friends,
relatives, or political connexions. (Hear, hear.) He (Mr.
Lowe) had heard in another place, a noble lord with in-
finite eloquence and iporance plead the cause of ignorance.
The noble lord had stigmatised the proposed public exami-
nations as the greatest absurdity that could be devised,
and said that a deeply-learned man was of all others the
most unfit for the business of the world. That was ter-.
tainly not the experience of that house, as they found that
the men who were the leaders of party, and who influenced
the destiny of nations, were also those who had most dis-
tinguished themselves at the universities. (Hear, hear.)
It was all very well to talk of the system of cramming.
He knew something of that system. (A laugh.) These
was no doubt a great deal too much cramming at our uni-
versities, but the reason was that the examinations fell
into the hands of the same class of men, and sometimes
_the same men who had prepared the pupils. There was a
sort of oral tradition handed down which was not to be
found in the books, and which formed the staple of most
examinations. A number of curious points were handed
low n, in the same way that problems were called by the
name of the man in Cambridge who had invented them, a
sort of discipline wrcani ; indeed, he was happy to think
that many dodges of that kind of his own invention were
still cherished at Cambridge with his name attached.
(Loud laughter.) That was a very bad system, but it need
not necessarily occur, since the examination would be car-
ried on by competent men, and not on any narrow or pe-
dantic system. (Hear, hear.) But the intellectuality of
Indian servants was important for another reason. No-
thing was more distressing in the evidence than the testi-
mony borne to the decline of friendly feeling between the
Europeans and natives. Now what he was going to say
might appear far fetched to the house, but he believed that
there was a close connection between the intellectual and
moral faculties in the human mind, and that ignorance and
stupidity were often the causes of ill-treatment of inferiors.
The ignorant man looked down upon the person of another
race ; but the man of intellect looked upon him as an object
of curiosity and of sympathy, a thing to be studied and
appreciated ; and, in this point of view, the advantage of
intellectual cultivation was, in his opinion, important. He
had now gone through as much of the noble lord's speech
as appeared to him to bear on the bill, but had avoided
that larger portion which, in his opinion, had nothing to
do with it. He knew, however, enough of mercantile
affairs to tell the noble lord that freights to Madras were
much nearer 70s. than 7s.
Lord STANLEY said he had spoken of a particular case,
and not of the general rule. He bad mentioned a par-
ticular cargo having gone out at that rate.
Mr. LOWE said, returning to the' bill, that he thought
he had shown there was no case for delay, and without
saying the bill was good or bad, he contended that the
subject was one the house ought to entertain, and which
might be very well disposed of in the present session.
They should look at the question as it was likely to affect
the
nopeoplew brought o f
forward, India. Etvheen p
ei f
otphleu Ministerial
wouldbillwere noton
the presumption that its provisions would be carried
out, and the effect on the company would be most in-
jurious, leaving them as it were half condemned, and
restrained from doing many useful things which they
would be otherwise inclined to do. (Hear, hear.) There
were many important reforms, such as the regulation of
furlough and the changes in the judicial system, which the
company might enter upon at once if they were not hung
up and paralysed by the delay of legislation. Education
also would be paralysed, and Haileybury would not know
what was to be its future system of management. Whe-
ther the government was to be double or single, it was
time the question were decided ; and therefore he trusted
the house would not accede to the amendment of the noble
lord. _ _

Mr. PHINN said that the hon. and learned member for
Kidderminster had endeavoured to persuade the house
that the amendment of the noble lord was inopportune
and unjustifiable, but he had failed to discuss the pro-
visions of the bill, to enforce its utility, or to offer any in-
ducements to the house to adopt the plan of the Govern-
ment. (Hear.) It was remarked of the Whigs that they
never carried out, when in power, the principles which
they advocated when in opposition ; and the present mea-
sure was an instance of that peculiarity. In 1783 Mr. Fox
had laid down the principle that in monarchical govern-
ments all power should emanate from the monarch, con-
stitutionally advised. The principle had worked gloriously
for England, and was it to be borne that in India the cold
shade of a company was to interpose between the monarch
and the subject? (Hear, hear.) It was said that we were
a practical people, and judged measures by their results;
but he would ask what good was to be expected from this
bill, which was nothing but a series of half measures, just
neither to the company nor to the people of England. Now
half measures were particularly unsuited to the case of
India. A great authority, Mr. Burke, had laid it down
that for the government of that country a whole system
must be devised, and that anything short of that would
be injurious both to this country and the colony. Lord
Ellenborough, another great authority, said that legisla-
tion for India should be final, and that the question should
be taken up by a strong Government, and decided in a per-
manent manner. His hon. and learned friend who had
last spoken advocated the bill on the ground that to give
the company another lease, would be only to insure re-
newed agitation at its termination, and in the same breath
he praised the bill as giving the opportunity of alteration
if it did not work well. Now, his (Mr. Phinn's) objection
to the bill was that it would leave an opening for constant
agitation. He should have preferred giving the company
a renewal for a certain number of years, and in the mean-
time a permanent and well-considered measure might be
prepared. He quite agreed with the hon. baronet the
member for Honitnn that could it be shown that the com-
pany's was the best 'government for India it would be the
duty of that house to maintain it ; but he thought them
bound to show not only that it was good, but that it was
the best that could be devised for the purpose. In form
he considered the government of the company the most
repulsive imaginable, a mere plutocracy ; and after all the
panegyrics they had heard of its sympathy with the peo-
ple of India, he thought it would be ridiculous to urge
that the welfare of that people was the first object of
government. To judge of the result of the system,
let them see what was the constitution of the govern-
ment. Any person holding a certain amount of stock
might vote for the election of the persons who had the
greatest share in the administration of Indian affairs.
Now, this person did not purchase stock out of
sympathy for the people of India, but looked to
the ordinary amount of interest plus the amount
of patronage to be obtained from the Board of
Directors. (Hear.) On this subject he might quote from
the Calcutta Review, an authority, the authenticity of
which had been acknowledged by the hon. baronet the
member for Honiton. (The hon. member here read an ex-
tract from the Review, to the effect that East India pro-
prietors had adopted a plan of clubbing their votes for the
purpose of influencing elections, with an understanding
amongst themselves to take the patronage in turn as it
might suit the ages or views of their relatives.) The bill,
to be sure, permitted the company to make bye laws to
remedy this evil, but why was not the duty of making
these laws made imperative? They had already received
permission to employ natives in places of trust, and the
world knew what had been the result. It was perfectly
well known that directors went into office with their pa-
tronage mortgaged for years to come, and surely in the case
of a system so opposed to all theory and principle, a won-
derful success in practice should be adduced to overcome
objections to the principle. He would turn, then, briefly
to the results of the government of India, and take the
best test of a people's prosperity—that of the powers o
consumption—from the tables that had been furnished by
the directors themselves. In that article of first necessity,
salt, he found the consumption in Bengal to be in '39, '4O,
16,194,188 rupees (value), in 1849-50 it was 16,107,384
rupees, being an actual diminution in ten years. It might
have increased as alleged, in the north-western provinces,
but he wanted to know whether the accounts did not in-
clude our recent acquisitions in the Punjaub, and the other
annexations in the north-western provinces. Another
point urged in favour of the company, was that except in
the case of the land tax which was rent, taxation was un-
known, but Colonel Sykes admitted that in Calcutta the
salt tax amounted to 11 per cent. on the labourer's income,
and in Benares to 3 per cent. Then they had the tax on
spirits, and a tax upon going into courts of law that
amounted to 25 per cent. on the sum recovered. They had
been told that the imports and exports of India had nearly
doubled, but they had not told of a great monopoly de-
stroyed, or the newly-created trade with Australia and
China, or of the opium trade, which so much influenced
the imports, by increasing the means of purchase. The
increase in the production and export of opium had been
remarkable. In proportion as they found opium exported
would they find that the imports increased. But their
trade in opium was in a very precarious condition. No
doubt it might be said that he was foreseeing danger that
might never arise, but when they were speaking of the
prosperity of a country, and basing arguments upon it,
these considerations were of importance. They had heard
a great deal about the increase of British shipping, but ho
ventured to say that if they took into consideration the
number of markets which had been opened, that increase
did not indicate an increase in the prosperity of the natives
of India. He did not wish to urge against the company that
it had uniformly pursued a system of bad government. Ho
should refrain from entering into the various merits of the
zemindar, the village, and the ryot systems. He thought
that the company, for their own purposes, had adopted
the best land systems in India they could. It was their
interest to do so, but he had looked carefully into the sub-
ject, and he could not see why one system should have
been preferred to another by the company, and he gave
the company no credit for the merits, and no discredit
for the demerits, of the different systems. He believed
the system of the north western provinces had operated
very well, and it might have been better if that system
could have been adopted elsewhere ; but he would not dis-
cuss that subject. Nor would he discuss the judicial
system, but he would call the attention of the house to the
fact, that there had been taxes laid on judicial processes in
India which would have been intolerable in any other coun-
necnioprlem,obuecs, aaunse
they were levied on the s l
comparedbasbased on
n the with
um at stake between the parties.
NtvilichanwdearsemoEstngvilacnidous werepri
and there was not the excuse that the company had found
this system in existence. His hon. friend the member for
Kidderminster pointed out the great difficulty in the judi-
cial administration in India. The other day two judges
were removed in India on the ground of indebtedness, in
consequence of which their independence was affected.
They confessed it, but justified it by saying that indebted-
ness was the normal condition of the judicial service in
India; that the Government knew their situation when
they were elevated to the bench ; and they therefore con-
sidered the conduct of Government harsh and oppressive,
and he believed the whole newspaper press of India sup-
ported them on that ground. Then, with regard to public
works, and the small proportion of the revenue of India
which had been applied to public works. Contrast their
administration in that respect with that of the native
princes. He did not mean to go back to the times of the
early governors of India, who certainly left works for irri-
gation and edifices which still existed, and attested their
magnificence and care for their subjects. They were told
the other day by the hon. member for Honiton, that these
works were for particular purposes, and that when the court
made a progress, as in Russia, works were executed. He
had not so read the history of India. Kaye had not to
read it. Mountstuart Elphinstone had not so read li, nor'.
had Thornton or Mill. He believed some of those listo:
rians had suggested that theory, but they had rejected it. •
They had the relics of those great works. The canal which
now supplied the city of Delhi with water was 300 6 40(1
years old, and it was re-opened in recent years after having. -
been silted up. Then look at what had been done by soma
•f the native princes of this day. Take for instan the:
great work of the Rajah of Ahamadapoor, a canal 'Which. hich.