The Sun.
London, England, 1854-09-25 00:00:00

worthy man, a Mr. Snell, who coma vest obligatteria
to the University himself. That wart ler the pup-
pose of enabling this University to appoint- ceriait 'per-
sons to go up to the University of Oxford -and ',acquire
honours there, and it is perfectly tru‘dahat: mac* that
grant great men did obtain honours at Vie,T.lniveraity of
Oxford, and none greater than Adam Srialth.,W-G;ad- k
stone thought fit to introduce a clause into this bi4Pfor
the purpose of abolishing the appointments under similar
grants in England. The proofs that he adduced to me
were strong; and I will only adduce one, the School of
Winchester. He found that the appointments . there
were actually jobbed by trustees who had never been
there ; and said to me that he must interpose a clause
against such abuses. I said—lf you.dn not make a re-
servation in the case of the Snell grant, J must bring my
whole force to bear
.against you,' Lord John Russell
and Mr. Gladstone both generously admitted that the
circumstances of the Snell grant; as affecting the Univer-
sity of Glasgow, were so different ir0n:1,441. the others,
that they would admit a provision into the act, so that
without the consent it could noticome under the restric-
tion. I therefore voted with the -Government in regard
to the Education-Bill. I believe I never gave a more
conscientious vote in my -life/ and I wished' for this op-
portunity to explain what I have done. (The hon. mem-
ber then resumed his seat amid loud applause.)
Mr. BURNS, writer, rose in the body of the hall, and .
said—The hon. member has alluded to alb association of
which the Earl of Eglinton is said to 1* the head. As
a humble member of that association, I take the liberty
He has referred
ionf at
the king
ncogutrhsee hoofnh.ismeempebeeerha
serioustqouestthieon.
under which Scotland labours, and has told us that Scot-
land never will get redress of this until she makes a
strong and united remonstrance against them. I would
ask him in what shape should
,Scotland make that re-
monstrance ?

1 Mr. MACGREGOR said—l rejoice in having questions
put to me, because I do not consider myself more than
other persons influenced by the infirmities incident to
humanity, and for me to say what would be the best and
most efficient way to make the remonstrance • would
be, perhaps, a presumption on Thy part. But I
stated one of our principal grievances—that is, that
we are not properly represented in the ministry of this
country—that we cannot be properly reprimPts4l437 an
Advocate who prudently takes fees from any Dandle
Dinmont, or anybody else, at Edinburgh ; and that
Scotland itself should make declarations, and never rest
satisfied until it has obtained its unbounded right, a
Secretary of State. I say the people of Scotland, and
the commercial and county constituents should them-
selves, every one of them, separately and distinctly,
make these representations, and make their members
advocate the redress of those grievances in Parliament.
(Cheers.) But Ido not wish to go back to those feudal
ideas connected with the barbarous history of our coun-
try. I want to talk of the real grievances which affect
our civilisation ; and, above all, to prevent any Govern-
ment increasing that tendency to centralisation which
has been manifested for so long a time. I want that the
municipalities of Scotland should retain their own self-
governments ; and this is a question which affects your
civil, religions, and political liberties. Tntse are the ways
by which I wish to effect these objects. Let the muni-
cipal governments of the different cities and towns ex-
press their opinions, as some towns in England have
done. But I do not wish to have any political league,
although I will support some things which political
leagues may advance. Let Glasgow, Edinburgh, Dun-
dee, Aberdeen—let the great representatives of the
wealth and industry of the country bestir themselves
arid exhibit their grievances, and say we not only (1.-
mand it of Parliament and the Government, but we will
not return any member to the house of Commons who
will not advocate the removal of all these grievances
which I have mentioned. These are the only practical
remedies : let them come through the representations of
the people.

Mr. BURNS inquired if the hon, member was a mem-
ber of the Corn Law League ? If so, what objection bad
lie to the principle of a league. Was it because the as-
sociation he referred to was of the character of a league
that he objected to join it ?

Mr. MACGREGOR—I object to It as a league, and to
join it as a league, because it proposes certain things
which I consider inconsistent with the times—feudalism
being gone for ever. I could not be a member of the
Corn Law League in virtue of an office I held at the
time ; but that league acknowledged that they owed
as much to my free-trade exertions as to any other man
in the country. (Loud cheers.)
Mr. BURNS inquired again—Did the association to
which you have alluded ever make the putting of a hat
on the head of a unicorn a point of Scottish grievance ?
Mr. MACGREGOR said that really from, his own know-
ledge he could not say. But a representation of the
animal in this condition was a very prominent object in
the engravings which had been sent to him on the 'sub-
ject. (Laughter.)

Mr. BURNS—I have noticed that you have used the
term "England" throughout your address when speak-
ing of the Government, as if Scotland did not exist—is
that correct ?

Mr. MACGREGOR owned that he had often used the
word " England" when referring to the British empire,
and explained it on the ground of usage or inadver-
tence. He admitted that it should be called " United
Kingdom," as including Scotland, its proper name since
the Union. He always upheld the idea that Scotland
was entitled to be recognised as great portion of the em-
' pire, as the was an important part of it., it•was the
liberal majority of Scotland that turned, out the late
Derby Government. At the division -the Derby party
had 15 of a znaj,rity from all England; of 5 from all
England and Ireland ; but froth all England and Ireland
with Scotland the scale was turned, and they were in
19 of a minority—(cheers)—so you see there that the
liberal majority of Scotland turned out the Derbyites,
and it is to the Scotch members, whatever the present
ministers may think of Scotland, that they owe the fact
of their being in office. (Loud cheers.)
Mr. WINE, accountant, asked if the hon. member
could assign any reason why 200,000/. should be paid
to the police in London and Dublin, and nothing to the
police in Scotland, and whether he had voted ,against
that appropriation

Mr. MAcGREGon did not recollect whether he had
been present when that question bad been discussed or
not, but had always objected to such a principle of par-
tiality. His vote, should such a case again occur,
would be guided by the circumstances of the case.

Mr. WINK asked if he would ♦ote against the
160,0001. given out of the national funds to the chari-
ties of London and Dublin, seeing that Scotland got
nothing ?

Mr. MACGREGOR said it would depend on each case,
as it came before him, bow be would vote. He bad
always protested against all partiality, and would make
every effort to get justice done to Scotland. But re-
garding the English and Irish charities, he must say
that be would not embitter the lives of individuals, per-
haps 70 or 80 years of age, by withdrawing support that
had once been allowed them.

A gentleman in the body of thosliall asked—How did
you vote with regard to Forbes Mackenzie's Bill ?
Mr. MACGREGOR-With respect to that bill I did not
vote at all, but I spoke against the bill, and I spoke at
the same time against the excessive consumption of
ardent spirits in Scotland. I hold that ignorance and
immorality cannot be alleviated by act of Parliament,
but by elevating the tastes of the people and by substi-
tuting more innocent recreation. He further stated
that he would not ♦ote for a repeal of the bill until it
got a fair trial.

Mr. BROWN, among other matters, demanded an ex.
planation why Mr. Macgregor had been present at only
70 out of 270 meetings of the house ?

Mr. MACGREGOR said that he had never been absent
when any point of importance to the country was being
discussed ; but that when the house was occupied with
trifling matters, he considered his time better spent in
corresponding with his constituents in Glasgow.
A CONSTITUENT, or at least a man in the middle of
the hall, then asked Mr. Macgregor how he voted re-
garding Forbes Mackenzie's Bill ? (Laughter, great
applause, and hissing.)
Mr. MACGREGOR—So far as he remembered he did
not vote at all. But he spoke against the bill ; and he
spoke at the same time and deplored the excessive con•
gumption of spirits in Scotland. His views were, that
there must be certain regulations ; but, at the same
time, no act of Parliament will make a people religious
or moral, so long as they remain in ignorance. Igno-
rance and the want of recreation for their health would
snake them seek indulgence of a gross kind. Unless
they elevated their tastes and enlightened their minds,
legislation for the suppression of drinking would be I •
n
vain.

•
Another CONSTITUENT asked if Forbes Mackenzie Bill could be amended or repealed ? (A laugh.)c
Mr. MACGREGOR could not tell. Hewas not the
master of the minds, intellects, and inclinations of 654
members of the House of Comm
was only one member ; but letGlaosngLow(eAxelratuigtshelf, &.) End.
it might get, according to its population, six or eight
members. (Cheers.)
The same CONSTITUENT—Will you vote for the repeal
of the bill ?
Mr. MACGREGOR—I will not vote for the repeal of
the bill till it gets at least a fair trial. (Tremendous
cheering.)
Mr. THOMAS BROWN now got upon a bench, and then
catechised the member tightly for loving Louis Napo-
leon so well, after he had destroyed the Roman republic.
And how they were to believe what Mr. M. had told
them regarding non-interference with Hungarians or
Italians, when Great Britain and France quietly stood
Iby, while Austria compelled Omer Pacha to turn some
of his officers to the right-about.
Mr. MACGREGOR replied at large ; but the essence of
his statement was, that the Roman republic was dished
before even Louis Napoleon was made president—that
the said Romans were not fit for constitutional liberty,
and one proof of it was that they had murdered Roasi,
ne a the greatest men of his times:. It was not true
that OilierPaclia's officers had been meddled with. As
to himself, he had been present at every important divi-
sion in the House of Commons ; but he did not think it
hii duty to attend at every trifling affair, when there
were sometimes seven divisions about a contemptible
local bill. lie did not lie in wait for these divisions,
especially as he had often to Write from 40 to 50 letters
every day in ie,piy to those of his constituents in Gists-
gow--no easy affair to manage.
After some further questioning and answering, during
which the said Mr. Brown did not appear to be either
satisfied or convinced,
Councillor MACADAM moved a vote of thanks to Mr.
Macgregor, to which he considered him fully entitled,
though it were for nothing else than his coming annually
to give an account of his stewardship.
The motion was put and carried by acclamation, sad
Mr. Macgregor having -suitably acknowledged the oom-
-14111,ttit, 'a
vote: of thanks was given to the ehairmans
when the meeting closed.