The Sun.
London, England, 1854-02-21 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY 'EVENING9 FEBRUARY 21, 1854.

himself often thought so, but not precisely on the same 1
grounds. In his opinion, there never was a time when we
could have so well escaped Continental med iling as the
present. But he now came to what was called the balance
of power. His noble friend said, the other night, that
he was surprised that any one should speak slightingly
of the balance of power, for it was a subject which had
occupied the attention of the statesmen of Europe in all
times. It would, no doubt, ill become him (Mr. Drum-
mond) to speak asvith disrespect of anything which was
deemed so important; but, without venturing any opinion
against the opinions of greater and wiser men, he
would take the liberty of mentioning certain facts. They
all know the time when consternation seized every Minis-
ter of foreign affairs in Europe because a Bourbon was going
to mount the throne of Spain or Naples. Now, in point
of fact, was France one whit more powerful after that
event than before? It was notorious that she was not ;
nor did he believe that, if the intension of Catherine—an
intention shown by the fact of her christening her second
son Constantine—of placing him on the throne of Constan-
tinople was fulfilled, Russia would be one whit more pow-
erful than she was at present; nor did he believe that, if
the Emperor succeeded just now in seating his brother on
that throne, we should be one whit the worse off. How
could we possibly uphold Turkey ? We appeared to have
found out that the maintenance of the independence of
Turkey, our old, or, as she was inure generally called, our
ancient ally, was necessary to the balance of power in
Europe. How in the world had we never found out this
before, when we took away from her the whole kingdom
of Greece? How came we not to think of this before the
battle of Naalarino ? (Hear.) He remembered Lord St.
Helen's saying of this conflict that it was a capital battle,
but we knockd down the wrong men. (Laughter.) How
came we not to think of this when the Russians crossed
the Balkan ? It was certainly singular that now, when
the Ottoman empire was reduce 1 to the lowest state, we
should come forward to uphold this tottering power, and do
so tinder the pretence of upholding the balance of power.
He read, the other day, a remarkable passage in a speech of
Mr. Burke in that house, in 1791, in reply to some speaker
who alluded to the importance of the balance of power.
That distinguished orator showed the impolicy of our
espousing the cause of the Ottoman Power, observing that
the consequence of entering into war on her behalf would
be to involve us in great expense, and to reduce the people
of a Christian nation to the level of heathens. (Hear.) He
would now ask, where were we going to war ? He admitted
that matters had been managed with a _great deal of
wisdom and discretion by the Government, but it was not
very long ago since, with great difficulty, they persuaded
the people of this country to look at the real defenceless
nature of its shores, and to allow them to put' these shores
in a better, but by no means complete, state of defence.
It was then in fashion to cry up the Emperor. Alexander,
and clown with the Emperor Napoleon. This year we
turned about; and the Emperor Napoleon was metamor-
phosed into a faithful ally, whom we spoke of in pane-
gyrics, and who joined us in making war against the
tyrant Nicholas. And what were you doing? You wore
sending the elite of our army to the uttermost limits of
Europe, or rather into Asia, leaving the Emperor of France
to send his contingent—those reprobate troops—those con-
demned regiments of Algiers ; and when the noble lord
talked of t .e horrors of Sinope, he wondered he did not
think also of the smoke in the case of General Palliser.
(Hear, hear.) He (Hr. Drummond) would certainly be no
party to any vexatious vote which would tend to weaken
the Government of the country ; but he should like to
know who was to be the Minister of War. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. Canning thought it of sufficient importance to insist
that Lord Castlereagh should not be such a Minister.
He (Mr. Drummond) asked this question, because all
saw enough to know that at the present moment there
was a feet le hand at the helm—(cheers from the Oppo-
sition)--there was a trembling of the topsails, and a vibra-
tion throughout the hull, that showed he did not under-
stand how to avoid the breakers. He was also without a
chart or a compass for his guidance, and his crew was
not a particularly united one. (Hear, hear.) He (Mr.
Drummond) considered that the character of no general or
admiral was safe in the hands of the existing Ministry,
and ho believed, they were capable of sacrificing either of
them to place or to factions in that house. They, at least,
,lid not hesitate to do so in the case of Brooke (Cheers.)
If, however, they were determined to go to war—if it were
true that it was to establish the balance of power—if it
were true that they were resolved to humble the Russian
and to support the Infidel—if they would compel Austria
and Prussia to stand true to their engagements, or make
them take the consequences—then he would say, "Go
where glory leads you. (Loud laughter.) Let them enter
upon that path upon which France had already entered.—
enter upon the course to which the first Napoleon was
pledged, and the second Napoleon held himself responsible
to proceed iu, and to fulfil the intentions of his predecessor
—and strike a blow at the heart of Russia, and not go
wasting their shots in the Black Sea. At least let them
do one act which will accomplish all objects, and at the
same time he but tardy retributive justice—proclaim the
re-establishment of the kingdom of Poland. (Cheers.)
Such an act would do more to bring these continental
despots to their senses than all our guns and taxes.
Mr. I. BUTT denied that this was a religious war. It
was a political conflict; but this was the first occasion on
which any Minister had come down to the house and asked
for a war supply, without clearly and distinctly stating the
grounds on which he asked for it. According to the theory
of our Constitution, as laid down by every political writer
of eminence, it was the right of that house to ask for ex-
planation, and the duty of the Ministers to give it. He
asked—are we at war with Russia, er what delays the de-
claration of war? By the law of nations such orders as
had been given to Admiral Dundas, which went to using
force, if necessary, against Russian vessels, could not be
justified. If Turkey was to place herself unconditionally
in the hands of England and France, and agree to any
terms they might propose, this would be a dishonourable
and degrading position for the Porte, and its independence
would be as completely sacrificed as by yielding implicitly
to the demands of Russia.

Mr. S. H ERBERT said that her Majesty's Government
had no cause to complain of the form which this debate
had assumed. It was true the Government was placed
between two fires. They were told by one party in the
house-that they had arrived tardily at the right place, but
that they had taken the wrong road in doing so ; while an-
ether party told them that they took the right road at
first, but that they hail arrived at the wrong place. These
two lines of argument had been maintained with extreme
skill and ingenuity ; and, if the Government had anything
to complain of on the part of hon. gentlemen who had
urged those arguments, it was not that they had criticised
the conduct of the Government unfairly,—at least, in
terms,—but that they were unanimous in having declined
to test the opinion of the house upon the force and merit
of the arguments they had maintained. The noble lord
the member for Colchester had said that it was all but
the unanimous opinion of the house and the country that
these negotiations had been mismanaged. Well, if that
were the unanimous opinion of the House of Commons,
why did not the noble lord ask the house to declare that
opinion? (Hear, hear.) The Government, he repeated,
were placed between two fires, and they could not get,
between those two hostile camps, any means of obtaining
what opinion the house itself really entertained upon the
question. The tactics of the Opposition showed with what
success blue-books might be used by judicious extracts be-
ing made from them. Having studied the policy of Russia
towards Turkey, they were ready to pay homage to her
superior diplomacy and to the skill of her proceedings hi
these negotiations. It was said that the last thing
which Russia sought or expected was the overthrow
of Turkey by Russian arms, but that her wish was
to weaken Turkey and finally betray her to her own
destruction. (Hear, hear.) Now, as it was the wish of
the house that the present debate should terminate
that evening, he promised scarcely to make any refer-
ence to the blue-books, and he certainly would not read
a single passage from them; but he must say that the se-
lection of passages which hal been made by hon. gentle-
men who censured the conduct of ministers displayedmore
ingenuity than candour. Ho did not believe it possible to
conduct kngthened negotiations concerning great interests
that werd'in danger and where a great number of parties
were engaged in them as principals—he did not, he said,
think it possible that in a book containing such a mass of
papers, and dealing with so many complicated questions,
any man who chose to peruse it with the mind of a special
pleader, prepared to force words from their plain meaning,
could fail ,to find many detached sentences upon which he
might fix his censure. As a specimen of this sort of criti-
cism, he might refer to what fell from the hon. member for
Aylesbury, who complained of the mistranslation of the
words beau role. But the hon. gentleman read the passage
from the French despatch in which that cxpression waslused
as if it was intended to apply to the conduct of the English
Government in reference to the invasion of the principali-
ties. Not at all; it referred to previous transactions
closed before the other question commenced ; it referred
to reports which had been made by our ambassador at
C mstantinople respecting the conduct of France in regard
to the Holy. Places, and which dispute he did succeed in
reconciling, and thereby brought into closer connection
Russia, Turkey, and France, who tip to that time had been
the parties to the dispute. By that very success of .Lord
Stratford on that occasion this country was enabled to
form that close alliar.ce with France which had been the
keystone of our policy ever since. We certainly, as a Pro-
testant nation, had nothing to do with the disputes be-
tween two sets of monks at Jerusalem ; we had nothing to
do with that dispute until it threatened the peace of Eu-
rope. He thought the French nation had committed a
great diplomatic error in ever entering into that dis-
cussion originally, and that it showed great dignity in
abondoning it, and in enabling Turkey to resist the usur-
pation which arose out of it on the part of Russia. It had
been stated that the whole mischief and all the difficulties
in which they ware now placed arose entirely from the ne-
glect of the English Government to use vigorous measures
last autumn. 'He was almost afraid to attempt answering
that charge, lest he should weaken the force of the very
eloquent and argumentative speech of the hon member for
Stroud (Mr. Horsinan). In the first place, the Government
did not wish to avoid discussion as to the details in which
they were engaged. But hon. gentlemen opposite had this
advantage. They came to facts—they were criticizing the
past; but the Government had no facts to deal with; they
had only to speculate as to the future. And what was it
gentlemen opposite proposed? They said that if, when the
principalities were invaded, we had acted with vigour, we
should have had peace. What was the state of England at
that time ? We had no fleet in the Black Sea, nor any
fleet in the Baltic ; while Russia had a large fleet—he be-
lieved 28 sail of the line. Turkey also at that time had no
army ; while the army of Russia was formidable, in num-
ber at least. Lord Stratford saw the danger of entering
into a war at that time. But what was the state of things
at the present moment? Turk I had organized and
trained and brought into the field an army of consider-
able power, and her alliances were considerably more fa-
vourable now than then. They should recollect for how
many years Russia had been acting in close connexion
with Prussia, and allied to her by ties of blood ; and the
relation between Russia and Austria was that of a bene-
factor and a grateful friend. It required time to consentto
en alteration of such intimate relations between those two
countries. But since that time the manly language and
patriotic expressions of Prussia had shown that she knew
how to estimate the proper position in which she should
stand in lturone, while Austria now held a very different
tone towards that Power, evidently showing that she now
aeon. took a very different view of her own interests from what
she did a year ago. H
those
theinclined
ge (Mt. S. Herbert) was not one of
o ground
askth
atth et
hhoovusweetroo seunptpe
loirntgt hi
neto Go-
vernmentaslight and paltry struggle, and when he heard it stated
that Russia was not to be feared, and that we need not
conceal our plans, because she was net formidable—because
no nation of slaves was ever formidable—he must say that
that was a delusion which the history of very great con-
quests in past times tended t oc isprove. It was disproved
by the Russian campaign in Italy, and also by b her advance
into the heart of Europe during the last was- • and to say
that she.could not make great conquests was to forget the
history of Europe during the last century, it was most

impolitic for the mere purpose of depreciating the prowess
of Russia, to undervalue her capabilities of aggression and
to deng her such aggiessiye reputation, as her campaigns
in 1773 and 1804, as far as Austria and Prussia were con-
cerned, and her conquests in respect of the Turkish pro-
vinces in former years, justify her in claiming. Again, it
was by no means a tenable argument to adduce in favor
of the weakness of Russia, to say that she was a nation of
, slaves since all who knew anything about that' country
knew that, whatever the condition of the people might be,
the feeling predominant among them was one of intense
nationalism, and that this feeling alone made them strong.
One marked distinction between Russia and Turkey, and
one great advantage in favour of the former country, was
this, that in Turkey the Government was Asiatic and the
people were European, while in Russia the Government
was European and the people Asiatic. Where a country
like Russia was subject entirely to the control of her
ruler in order to estimate her strength or her weakness
we must look to the character of the Prince who rules over
her, and in the present crisis, therefore, we must, take
into consideration the character and abilities of her
Emperor, who, previously to the commencement of these
present unhappy differences, was held in the estimation of
the world as a Prince of no mean ability, and may even
now be looked upon as, holding, in the east of Europe,
much the same position as the Pope would hold in the west
if he were at the head of 500,000 men. (Hear, hear.) A
great deal had been said, and much bad been made of the
progress and civilization of Turkey, and it was very true
that that country had made great progress during the last
few years; but yet he could not in any way agree with the
theory that a country like Turkey under the influence of
Ms.homedanism could, under any circumstances, advance
in civilization and improvement in the same ratio as a
country under the influence of Christianity—(hear, hear)
and it ought to be understood, in reference to this branch
of the question, that we were not 'inclined to be embarked
in this war, so much for the purpose of defending Turkey
as of opposing Russia. (Cheers.) It was a fatal thing in
a question like this to intermix the slightest partic eof
dictates of duty ; and to lead away the people of England,
like the lower branches of the press in many instances had
done, to think that we were influenced in favour of the
Turks and their cruelties and barbarism, instead of being
urged on against Russia to resist her aggression—(hear,
hear)—and he protested against it being said that we were
not induced to take the part which we did in this matter
for the purpose of keeping up the balance of the Powers
of Europe ant resisting the encroachment of Russia, but
out of a romantic feeling for Turkey. (Cheers.) He
had previously said that he considered it a fallacy to
suppose that, because Russia was what was called a nation
of slaves, that therefore, she was a weak nation ; but
there was another fallacy, also, still more incorrect, and
that was, to say that a nation of free men, like ourselves,
could not unite for war or combine for national pur-
poses, and that we could not make any sacrifices for
national advantages when such advantages were to be
secured by a necessary war. , This fallacy, he felt bound
to say, the speeches delivered last year by the hon. member
for the West Riding of Yorkshire, in his opinion, contri-
buted to diffuse; inasmuch as whatever he said had a
powerful influence upon Europe, as he was looked upon as
the great and successful advocate of a great question, and
the representative of the feeling of the largest class of the
people of this country. (Loud cries of "No, no," and
laughter, from the Opposition.) If not of the largest class,
the hon. member was a representative, at any rate, of a
great portion—(hear, hear)—of the working classes of this
country, and as such, no doubt, his opinions were canvassed
with great interest at St. Petersburg. (" Hear, hear," and
a laugh.) In spite of any such false impression, however,
we should now have an opportunity of showing how for-
midable a nation of freemen could be, and how they would
exert every nerve to carry to a successful termination
what they thought it their duty to undertake. (Hear,
hear.) He believed that if last year we had plunged this
country into a war we should have been called to a heavy
account for having precipitately hurried on such a crisis ;
bat now, in his opinion, the people of England were im-
pressed with the conviction that Government had done the
best that 'could be done to protect the interest and the
rights and uphold the dignity and the honour of this
country. (Loud cheers.) It had been said that "England's
danger was Ireland's opportunity," and he thought that
both were present now. (Hear, hear.) That the former
would manfully and with success resist and surmount the
danger he had no doubt ; and that the latter would profit
by the opportunity there was ample proof, inasmuch as the
people of Ireland were already, with national and charac-
teristic feelings and, patriotism, coming forward to show
upon this occasion, as they had done upon all others, how
deep and sincere was their loyalty to their Sovereign in
time of need, and unquestionable their bravery at all times.
(Loud cheers.) It was a matter of sincere satisfaction to
see the temper and unanimity with which all classes of
persons seemed determined to act upon this subject ; and
it was his firm belief that the sword which we had been
obliged to draw in defence of public right and justice we
should, at any rate, sheath in honour. (Loud cheers.)
Mr. DISRAELI—Sir, I have always thought that one
of the ,eauses of the prolongation of the last great Euro-
pean war was the ignorance of the people of this country
as to the origin and object of that struggle. Even to this
moment they are matters of controversy, whether the
French republic, for example, was an aggressive power ;
or whether, on the contrary, if it had been left alone, it
was not a power essentially pacific—whether the, ambition
of the first Emperor of France was an insatiable ambition ;
or whether, on the contrary, at a particular period of his
life a conservative policy was not the necessity of his
course? Why we went to war, whether it was to put the
Bourbons on the throne of France, or to reduce the limits
of France, or to establish a constitutional government in
France, are still subjects of controversy, though forty
years have passed, in the pages of our most eminent writ-
ers and our most popular historians. Now, Sir, I have
always felt that if ever this country were embarked again
- - -

in a war, whiCh might be a war of magnitude and of ge-
neral character, if I were in a position, however humble,
which might in any way allow me to induce the people of
this country-to.nuderstaiad-thecause and the object of the

war in which they were engaged, I certainly would make
the attempt. (Hear.) I have always been of opinion that
every nation, and this nation particularly, would be much
more prepared and much more willing to make the exer-
tion and to endure the burdens which a state of warfare

must induce and occasion, if they really know why they
were going to war, and for what they were going to war,
than if they were, hurried into a contest._ by inflammatory
policy or their passions, and carried on by an excitement
which at the ilit--moment may be convenient to the mini-

ster, but which a few months after, followed by the ine-
vitable reaction of igabrauce, and perhaps of ignorance and
disaster combined, no one would so much suffer from as
that person who is responsible for the administration of
this country. (Hear, hear.) Sir, there is another instance
which is peculiarly applicable to the present position of
affairs, and I confess it has always very much in-
fluenced me. Five and twenty years ago there was a con-
siderable war, and that a war between the two powers
which had now mutually declared war—Russia and Tur-
key. In that war the two great westJrn powers, so often
referred to of late, took part ; but they took part on the
side of Russia and not of Turkey. By their union with
Russia there was a slaughter at Sinope on a scale to which
the late event, which we SO much lament, may be looked
upon almost as a miniature performance. (Hear.) The
present perplexed and the recent prostrate condition of
Turkey was entirely ascribable to the events of that war,
in which France and England were united against them.
And I believe that certainly at that time there was not a
member of this house who really had an idea why we went
to war on that occasion, and what was the object which
we intended to accomplish when we levelled a blow at the
power of Turkey, .which is indirectly the cause of the
dangers, of, the perils, and theperplexing
circumstances
which we are now considering. .
ee (Hear, hear.) Well, sir,
I say for these reasons, looking to the past, I have always
been of opinion that, if ever this country were to embark
in another war again, it should be the first duty of Parlia-
thement understand the reasons
anttleadmithoefmthteo apecooteseceolfarlY such importance—clearly com-
prehend the cause and object of the war. Now, sir, for
Lay part I cannot understand how I am to obtain' that
knowledge—first, as to the cause of the war—but by stu-
dying these state papers, which her Majesty has been gra-
ciously pleased to by upon our table—(hear, hear)—and
which, in language which a few yeeirs nem was not parlia-
mentary, are now called " blue books." (A laugh.) I know
no other source from which I can obtain any knowledge as
to the cause of a war ; and I know not any means by which
someen who I can clearly arrive at what is the object of a war unless I
first ascertain what is the cause of the war. I therefore
sir
to the observations of
thoseh honourable dismay
have preceded' me in the
debate, who have more than once informed us that we have
no business to consider the past—that We are merely to
consider the actual position of the Government of the
country—and that we are not to inquire by what means we
aoenloisutanbelde wgeitnhtle m
have arrived at the position which we now occupy. I can-
not draw any coarse line of demarcation between the events
that have recently occurred, and the events that are occur-
ing at this moment with respect to those transactions. I
deny that you can distinguish at this moment the iesst from
the fut.Lre of those events. What is occurring at this mo-
ment is occasioned by the words written in these very de-
spatches that are lying on our table. (Hear.) The polies,
that is there developed is preparing that future which you
say is alone to absorb our attention, and is occasioning
those very events which, even at this instant, may be
giving a new colour to the future, which you say is alone
to be the object of our study. I therefore shall Fotest
against the doctrines of the First Lord of the Admiralty,
that we are to support the Government or to censure the
Government, and that there is no middle course , for the
House of Commons to follow when her Majesty has au-
nounced from the throne that in a moment of danger she
appeals with confidence to our loyalty fer her support—
that the country may be on the eve of war, and that we,
under these circumstances, are to offer no opinion, with all
the responsibility that devolves upon us—no opinion upon
those great public events, without being counted either
the servile adherents of the Government, or those who
have no object but to extract from the events of the mo-
ment the means of inconveniencing a ministry. (Hear.)
I therefore feel it my duty to attempt to. ascertain the
cause and the object of the war before us. I don't think
that that is a mere critical object. I don't think that that
is a task which merely consists of making obieriaticinsupon
the papers on the table The right hon. gentleman who
last addressed the house protested against the reading of
isolated passages of these despatches. He says that it is
unfair, and that it is a manoeuvre no minister can protect
himself against. Well, Sir, I cannot promise the house
that I will read the " blue books" entire. (Hear and.
laughter.) But Y will promise the house that I • will read
very few extracts from these deepatches, and far from
taking isolated extracts I will read these only with one
object—namely, to maintain a position which I wish to
establish to the house, and which I am sure cannot be
established by any manceuvres in debate, or by having re-
course to garbled extracts or to isolated passages accom-
modated to the occasion. (Hear.) Sir, I want first of all
that the house and the country should understand the
cause of this war, because after the speech of the noble
lord (Lord J. Russell) on Friday night I think it is affec-
tation in laneueee to suppose that we are not virtually at
war. (Hear.) Since the noble lord spoke we have had an
authoritative statement that our last effort at negotiation
has failed. -I therefore shall endeavour to ascertain what'
is the cause of this war, and it is only by obtaining that
'information that we shall acquire au exact idea of what
is the object of this war. It will be then for the house to
decide—l don't say on this discussion of to-night, but- in
the course of those debates that the impending fortunes of
the country will naturally induce—it will then be for the
house to decide whether the object is a worthy object—
whether it is an adequate object—and if it be an adequate
object, whether the means that the Government propose
ate capable of accomplishing it. (Cheers.) Now, sir, I
say, that it is the duty of the House
of Commons so to
' consider the papers that are laid on the table, I say that

it is for the advantage of the country that there should be
clear ideas on these all important subjects, and that if we
are to embark in a struggle which must without all doubt
cripple the industry of the country, which must burden the
people of the country, which must retard the progress which
we hear so frequently vaunted in the house—that there
should be as clear a conception as possible, not only in this
house, but throughout the land, why we are going to war;
and going to war, what we propose to accomplish by that
last and desperate resource. (Hear.) Now, sir, the relations
between Russia and Turkey have become of late years
so familiar to honourable gentlemen that our duties in de-
bate are extremely facilitated by the knowledge which 'ex-
ists upon this subject. I remember, when I first entered
Parliament, some sixteen or seventeen years ago, when
this subject—the relations between Russia and Turkey—
, was brought forward. The very subject itself was con-
sidered a project of some ingenious and eccentric mind.
The designs of Russia were a frequent subject of a very
small minority in this house. At that time the predomi-
nant opinion of the House of Commons and the country
I was, that there was no subject on which there was so
much exaggeration as that which imputed a systematic de-
sign of territorial aggression to the Emperor of Russia.
(Hear, hear.) Afterwards, as the subject adyanced, and
by the progressive result of frequent discussions, but dis-
cussions always at long intervals and in thin houses, there
grew up certainly an opinion adopted not by a majority
but by a respectable minority in the house, that there was
a systematic design on the part of Russia, among other
great objects, not only of possessing India, not only of
effecting other great' objects, but of conquering and per-
manently possessing Constantinople; and so far as what
was then called the Eastern question—so far as the rela-
tions between Russia and Turkey were concerned. it was
always a question between those who believed that Russia
had no political design and those who were fully convinced
she had a direct and immediate purpose to conquer the
Ottoman Empire. (Hoar.) Well, sir, this question has
gradually attracted the attention of the country—circum-
stances have developed it in the country—information has
been obtained, and that which I believe is the truth has
been adopted by many who are entitled to the character
and reputation of statesmen, namely, that Russia has
no intention whatever of forcibly conquering the Otto-
man Empire, but that by an adroit policy and by
indirect means she intended to obtain and exercise such
an influence over the population of the Turkish Empire,
who are subjects of the Sultan—Christian subjects of
the Sultan—that she would obtain all that authority which
would have been the result of her possessing perhaps the
seat of the Sultan; and that, I believe, has been for some
years the received opinion of those who are well-informed
and capable of forming a correct and moderate opinion
upon this important subject. (Hear, hear.) Sir, I apprehend
that has been the opinion which has been adopted by those
who have held responsible positions in this country of late
years. I apprehend that that is the meaning which we
duelist ascribe to the frequent expressions of the Secretary
of State in the papers on the table, which refer to the de-
clarations—personal declarations of the Emperor—and
which I need not remind the house never appear in the
printed documents in our hands. (Hear, hear.) I appre-
hend that they have received from her Majesty's ambassa-
dors, or from other sources, such distinct declarations on
the part of the Emperor of Russia on this subject, namely,
that he did not contemplate, under any circumstances, an
invasion of the territorial integrity of Turkey; that her
Majesty's Government—the present Government like pre-
ceding Governments—have rested with confidence upon
that declaration. (Hear.) Sir, I don't think—if I may
for a moment, and I think I am bound to do so—if I may
for a moment read a passage from the despatches—l do not
know that the policy of Russia—and it is most important
that we should have a clear idea what the avowed policy of
Russia is before we come to any final conclusion upon our
own conduct—l do not know that the policy of Russia is
expressed in more accurate language than in a despatch of
Count Nesselrode at the beginning of January, 1853. It is
familiar to the house, and if I read it, it is because the
passage is but short, and in offering a statement to the
house it is of great importance with respect to these decla-
rations that the very language of the writer should be in the
ear of the house at the moment that their opinion is asked
upon the topic. Count Nesselrode, on the 14th of January,'
1853, says, speaking of his court :—" We have always desired
the maintenance of the Ottoman Empire, as being, take it
all in all, the least mischievous arrangement for all European
interests, which would not fail to come into collision in
the East, if the gap existed." He proceeds to say :—" We
will acsordingiy use our utmost efforts to avoid to the last,
so far as depends upon us, without prejudice to our honour,
whatever may be calculated still further to shake this
body, at once so feeble and so tottering, at the risk of fall-
ing into powder." He says, in another despatch—familiar,
I have no doubt, to every gentleman, and, therefore, I
will only briefly allude to it, but it is right, it is fair, in
order that we may come to an unimpassioned opinion upon
this all-important subject—it is right that we should see
that the case should be fairly stated for Russia as well as
for all—Count Nesselrode again says There exists a
community of interest between fifty millions of the Rus-
sian population and twelve millions of the orthodox which
constitute the majority of the Sultan's subjects." And
he tells you in another despatch, so late as June, 1853,
that this claim of patronage over these twelve million sub-
jects of this foreign power the Emperor will defend to the
last extremity as an assertion of his inheritance. Now,
sir, I say, that at the outset of these negotiation the policy
of Russia is distinctly and explicitly expressed. Ascen-
dancy should be obtained over the Turkish empire, and
that ascendancy to be obtained, not by territorial conquest,
bat by exercising a peculiar influence over twelve millions,
the largo majority of tho Sultan's subjects. There is a
purpose distinctly expressed and a policy defined in de-
spatches which are addressed to h'er Majesty's Government.
Now it is not merely that the objectis defined, but we are
no leas candidly informed of the mode by which it is to be
attained. This influence is to be exercised over 12 millions
of the Sultan's subjects, riot by conquest, which Russia
disclaims and always disclaimed, but by the stipulations of
treaties, by maintaining the treaties that exist, and by ex-
tending the spirit of those treaties. All this you see from
he very beginning of this important controversy. What
I may call the base of the diplomatic campaign was a
treaty, and that was the treaty which has been quoted
half a dozen times i-a this discussion, namely, the treaty
of Kainardji. Now, I will nots presume to read the
treaty of Kainardji to the house, but I think the house
will agree that it is very expedient, when a particular
treaty is the foundation of transactions of this vast im-
portance, that we should have a clear idea of that treaty.
We have had great references made to the treaty of Kain-
ardji, and I think I can, without troubling the house, in a
moment place before it the essence and the peculiar cha-
racter of that treaty. In article 7 of the treaty of Kain-
ardji there is this clause :—" The Porte promises to pro-
tect the Christian religion ;land the minister of Russia to be
allowed to make representations"—now mark for what—
"to make representations in favour of the new church of
which mention is made in article 14 of this treaty." Now
article 14 of the treaty of Kainardji, the only other article
to which I need refer, is of this character :—The Court of
Russia is permitted, besides the chapel built in the mini-
liter's house, to build in the quarter of Galata in the street
called Bey ITglu, a public church of the Greek rite, which
shall be under the protection of the Russian minister, and
free from all vexation and exaction. Now, observe what
is the treaty of Kainardji. The Christian subjects of the
Porte are, by that treaty, placed under the special protec-
tion of the Sultan ; and Russia, interpreting that treaty,
states that the Christian subjects of the Sultan are placed
specially under the protection of Russia. Under the treaty
of Kainardji representations may be made in favour of their
new church ; but so cautious is the Porte, that the very
street in which the new church is, is mentioned ; it is the
church in the street of Bey Uglu ; and the Russian inter-
pretation of that article of the treaty is, that because the
Porte consents that the minister of Russia shall interfere
in favour of a particular new church building in a particu-
lar street, she has the power of interfering iu favour
of every church of that denomination in the country,
and of every community of the Christian faith in
the Sultan's dominions, which • happen to "be the
large majority of his subjects. Now, that is the treaty
of Kainardji, and these are the claims which are made
upon that treaty. I must for a moment call the atten-
tion of the house to an extract from a despatch, dated
January 8, 1853. It is from Sir Hamilton Seymour ; and,
as it has already been referred to in debate, and is familiar
to every gentleman, I shall state it very briefly. In that
despatch Sir Hamilton Seymour informs the noble lord the
present 1-ader of the house (Lord John Russell) that Count
Nesselrode treated as exaggerated the apprehensions likely
to arise in Turkey and elsewhere from the appearance of a
Russian army on the Turkish frontier. It was necessary
that the diplomacy of Russia should be supported by a
demonstration of force ; that a corresponding concession
should be made to the Greek Church for any new conces-
sion made to the Latin one. Count Nesselrode expressed
his belief that this alarming question would be satisfac-
torily concluded. On what did he rest his belief ? Now I
beg the house to mark this. He rested his belief in a satis-
factory solution of this question on the exertions of her
Majesty's Government at Paris and Constantinople to ad-
vocate the rights which the Russian Government were en-
titled to claim, and discountenance the pretensions of the
French. Now I beg the house to observe how clear and
transparent is the policy of Russia. Hero is a great de-
monstration of force; but what is it to do? It is to sup-
port the diplomatic= ovement. What is that movement ?
It is a movement- to increase the influence of Russia over
,the population of. Turkey who profess the Greek religion.
And how is it to' be ,affected how is it to be peaceably
affected, that is the point? Not by a demonstration of
force, but by the friendly exertions of her Majesty's Minis-
ters at Paris and at Constantinople. (Hear, hear.) Now,
you see then, we have at once a distinct declaration by
Russia of her policy. We have a distinct declaration that
her demonstration of force is only a demonstration, but
that her object is to be attained—peaceably attained—by
tee exertions 'of the English Ministers at Paris and at Con-
stantinople. You know the power with whom you have to
deal. You have the policy of that power perfectly defined.
You have the object avowed, which is ascendancy over
Turkey. You have the methods described, which are influ-
ences over the Greek Christian population, and these effected
by Russian diplomacy—a diplomacy, of which, I may say,
without using the epithets which the noble lord the mem-
ber for the city of London (Lord J. Russell) uses with re-
gard to foreign ministers—a diplomacy which I will not
call fraudulent, but which is a diplomacy with regard to
which a man, if placed in contact with it, would certainly,
if he were a prudent man, be upon his guard. (A laugh.)
NoW, sir, I want to know, with this object expressed, these
means detailed, and this diplomacy to deal with, I want
to knoW how her Majesty's Ministers encountered such a
combination, and how can I obtain that information but
by studying the papers on the table ? I think I shall be
able to show the house that it is impossible for us to obtain
that which is at' this moment the most valuable informa-
tion for the House of Commons and the people of England
—namely, the object of the present war—unless we preli-
minary ascertain, and. I hope I shall be able to do that
with extreme brevity, what has been the cause of the war.
'lt is therefore not to criticise the past- -or what is I think
erroneously called the past—it is not to cavil with expres-
sions, it is not to garble despatches, it is not by quotations
hereandmismanagement
against The ereiitnoi
Ministry, at
a
m colourableomen t coafsen
aof
tional emergency like the present, that I am led to quota-
tion, but because I want the house clearly to understand
that is the only mode by which the house and the country
alitowwawr:ohraivnedbaenegnerborfotbigehintginitmo
mtheidsiapotesliytioant,wwahryblevceausaree
Lan ascertain what is the object of this actual, of this me-
naced state of warfare. (Cheers.)
now exhausted
fact, virtually
soon debate, of till, holy places. It was, in y
soon settled at Constantinople. Even Count IN easel-
:Aches, expresses
sir, it is mine-
ereosdsea:Tatfoar
vmereytoeatroluychpeuripoodnitnhtehcieuseesNdtoieowsup,
his surprise, but his satisfaction at, and his acknowledg-
menttihlaedFrneontchth. e Nor would
oicurldd
7,
b.,dwell'(Lord
of,j John
upon
e Rot
hlsi
minister' of state, for he said it was the Government of
Lord Derby that was really responsible for this question.
for
Russell) reminded conciliatory
poimrietno
me that I once was a
• Now, sir, whatever may have been the faults of the Go.
vernment of Lord Derby, they need not look back with
any regret or remorse to their relations with these affairs.
(Hoer, hear.) The question of the holy places was not
formally settled when we left office, but certainly it was
the strenuous and confidential exertions of Lord Malmes-
bury that brought the French Goverunient to the right

tone of viewing the conduct of M. Lavalette ; and I be-
lieve that had it not been for the preliminary steps which
he took, the withdrawal by France of that envoy from
Constantinople—l think under the circumstances a mag-
nanimous act—would never have taken place. But on
the question of the holy places, Count Nesselrode tells you
at an early period that he views with satisfaction, and
even with' surprise, the conciliatory character of the con-
duct of France. Colonel Rose tells you at an early date,
in despatches familar to every gentleman, that he had con-
versed with the French ambassador at Constantinople, and
so far as France is concerned there never would be any
further discussion or difficulty-on the subject. But all this
time the forces of Russia are accumulating on the frontier.
All this time Count Nesselrode is telling you that his Go-
vernment will seek an equivalent for the privileges which
the Greek Church has lost at Jerusalem, the settlement of
which his Government has resolved not disturb. Even
the mission of Prince Menschikoff is at this time mentioned.
What does Sir Hamilton Seythour say?—" Count Nessel-
rode observed that there was necessarily some vagueness in
Prince Menschikoff's orders, as it was hardly ascertained
to what extent the rights secured last year to the Greeks
had been infringed ; that as it is not meant to regain from
the Latins the privileges they have subsequently ac-
quired, the object to be sought was an equivalent to the
Greeks:: Observe that, after that, we hear that the Em-
peror would insist on the promise made to him in favour
of the Greek Church being fulfilled. On a subsequent oc-
casion, in an important despatch from Count Nesselrode
to Baron Brunow, we hear that this was to obtain for the
Greeks some recompence for the wrong which has been
done them, and, above all, to secure them from further in-
jury. Now, sir, I was very much surprised by the ob-
servation made by the noble lord (Lord John Russell) on
this subject the other night. The noble lord feels very
deeply—l speak with the leave of the horse—he feels very
deeply on this subject of the conduct of Russia. It is not
merely that he is—l will not say overwhelmed, but—over-
come by the responsibility, and it is an awful responsi-
bility, of a minister who has advised his Sovereign to go
to war ; but the noble lord feels so acutely the conduct of
Russia, that on mere than one occasion in his speech, and
in these discussions, he has indulged in the language of in-
vective, both towards the minister and his master. (Hear,
hear.) We were told the other night that the conduct of
Count Nesselrode was fraudulent. That is a very strong
expression. (Cheers.) It is easy to cheer, but Count
Nesselrode has for nearly fifty years sustained a great posi-
tion, and is supposed to be one who has administered
affairs with peat moderation, with great wisdom, and
under circumstances of great difficulty, no doubt, with
great success • but his conduct is described as fraudulent.
(Hear, hear.) The conduct of the Emperor, we were
told the other night, was the conduct of a butcher—at'
least, he had given orders for an act of butchery. Now,
mark this— I do not mention it without an object.
At present we have to deal with Count Nesselrode.
His conduct, the noble lord told us the other night,
is fraudulent. (Hear, hear.) " Nothing could be more
unsatisfactory than the conduct of Count Nesselrode.
He kept saying that his imperial master would seek an
equivalent for the Greek Church. He was constantly
repeating that his imperial master was determined to have
some equivalent, or that some arrangement should be
made compensatory to the Greek Church for the privi-
leges which it had relinquished. But Count Nesselrode
never told us what he wanted." Wicked Count Nesselrode !
Infinite duplicity of the Russian statesman ! But does
not it occur to the house, though it might not have oc-
curred to the noble lord, that if he wanted to know exactly
and precisely what Count Nesselrode meant, that he
should not have waited for Count Nesselrode to tell him,
but that he should have asked the question of Count Nes-
selrode ? The first great complaint made by the noble
lord of the conduct of Count Nesselrode, which in the
end is denounced as fraudulent, is that he perpetually
went on harping on the determination of the Emperor of
Russia to obtain some compensation for the Greek Church
for the privileges it had lost; but ho never told her Ma-
jesty's Government what he meant by what he said. But
why is Sir H. Seymour at St. Petersburg if he is not to ask
for that information ? Why are there envoys at the capi-
tal of Russia ?—why are there secretaries of state ?—why
are there protracted, and distracted, councils in Downing-
street—(laughter)—if the upshot of all these individuals,
all these ambassadors, all these ministers, all these delibe-
rations is, that the noble lord is to come to the house with
the country in a state of war, that war having been occa-
sioned apparently by the intentions of the Emperor of Rus-
sia, and the great complaint of the noble lord being that
the Emperor of Russia never told them what ho wanted,
the noble lord confessing, by that very observation, that he
never asked the Emperor of Russia the question ? Here is
the gist of the matter. At this stage of the proceedings
we ought to have said to Russia—" The affair of the rival
churches is settled, in which we never properly interfered
—why is there still this demonstration of force on the
frontier. Yon say you want an equivalent for the Greek
Church for the privilege you have lost. Define what you
want precisely and explicitly. If you continue to make
demonstrations when the object for which they were ori-
ginally made has already been settled ; if you go on an-
nouncing that you require equivalents and compensations,
and do not define what you mean by a compensation, then
we tell you that you cannot count on what you have de-
clared to be your great means of assistance for the peace-
able conclusion and attainment of your object, viz., the
friendly offices of her Majesty's Government at Paris and
at Constantinople. Now, I ask the house, was that ever
said ? Was it ever said ? I can only say it does not appear
upon the papers which are upon the table. It never ap-
pears upon those papers that any formal or precise demand
was made upon the Russian Government of what they
meant by equivalents and compensations. Those who speak
after me will have an easy opportunity of confuting what
I say, if they can refer to the documents and find what un-
fortunately lam not able. But Ido not wish to press the
noble lord (Lord J. Russell) unfairly upon this point. I
admit that the noble lord individually, not considering him
as a member of the Government, is almost free from ob-
jection in this point, because the noble lord in the brief
time during which he occupied office, made, I think, such
inquiry as he well could as to the assembling of troops
upon the frontiers, and other subjects of great importance.
But at the time when the subject ought to have been
pressed to the inquiry to which I refer, the noble lord re-
linquished the seals of office, and another personage be-
came Secretary of State, and I am bound to say—and I
shall say nothing which I shall not at least attempt to
prove—l am bound to say that from that moment there is
a different character in the diplomatic proceedings. (Oppo-
sition cheers.) It seems acknowledged by Sir Hamilton
Seymour, in one of his despatches, that ho is surprised
at the change in the tone of Count Nesselrode—and I
should say that it is evident that that new character
may be fairly described as a bias in favour of Russia.
I of course refer to the accession of Lord Clarendon to
office. Lord Clarendon is Secretary of State, mind you,
and the moment he is made Secretary of State, by a cu-
rious coincidence he is called upon to perform the most
important act that a Secretary of State under tha circum-
stances could have to fulfil. For her Majesty's ambassador
was about to repair to the very scene of these important
transactions, and Lord Clarendon had to draw up the in-
structions of Lord Stratford. Sir, I have been rather sur-
prised that in the course of these discussions a more minute
reference has not been made to that which really is the
most important state paper on the table. The only person
who has made use of it is the hon. member for the West
Riding to-night, who has quoted a. passage from this
despatch, and for what purpose ? To show that Lord
Clarendon at that moment, as proved by his instructions
to Lord Stratford, was totally ignorant of the resources of
the Turkish empire and the Turkish people. (Hear, hear.)
That was the argument of the hon. gentleman. It suited
the conclusion that he was endeavouring to impress upon
the house. His point is, that the Turks are exhausted,
that they are incapable of any effort—that we are inter-
fering for a miserable minority of a people —that they are
a race who can achieve nothing ; and he says—" I prove
my case by the best evidence, and it is that of the Secre-
tary of State." Now I shall quote the language of the
Secretary of State for a very opposite purpose to that
which the hon. member for the West Riding had in view.
My answer to the hon. member for the West Riding—so
far as the authorify of Lord Clarendon for his point goes
is the passage of the Danube by Omer Pacha, the battle of
Oltenitza, and others which followed—the gallant conduct
of the Turkish people—(hear)—but let that pass. lam to
examine the conduct of a ministry whose policy is to support
the independence and the integrity of the Porte—who for
this great object have not hesitated to involve this country
in war, and who are not justified in their course unless
they have confidence in the resources of the country,
in the character of the people; and unless they believed
that the integrity and independence of Turkey were not
mere phrases, but palpable and real facts. (Hear, hear.)
But, remember that you had had the armies of Russia col-
lecting on the frontier of Turkey—you had had warnings
of these warlike preparations from the Russian Minister.
You had had the avowal from Count Nesselrode, that the
object of the mission of Prince Menschikoff was a vague
mission, but that, however vague might be his instructions,
there was one result that he was to secure, namely, a great
concession to the Greek Church—an equivalent, a compen-
sation. You had all these—you knew that the integrity
and independence of the Porte was at stake—the Secretary
of State was called upon to fulfil the most important func-
tion of a Minister under such circumstances, viz., to draw
up instructions for the Queen's ambassador, who was re-
pairing to the seat of action. Now, what are these in-
structions? I am sure the bowie will agree with me that
if we are to discuss this question we should endeavour to
discuss it fairly, and for that reason only I read a despatch
—I do not trust to my memory. Well, what are these
instructions of the Secretary of State of a Ministry who
uphold the integrity and the independence of the Porte,
and who, to maintain that independence and that integrity,
are going to war ? —Lord Stratford do Radcliffe is instructe,.
to tell the Porte, "with all frankness and without reserve,"
that "it is now in a position of peculiar danger. " (As
laugh). He is to insist upon "the accumulated grievances
of foreign nations, which the Porto is unable or unwilling to
redress," and "upon the increasing weakness of its executive
power." The Government whose independee
and improve-
we profess to
defend is to receive our dictation as to reforms
ments, and as to the development of its commercial resources:
—" Its perseverance" it is told; "in its present course must
end in alienating the sympathies of the British nation, and
in making it impossible for her Majesty's Government to
shelter it from the impending diai.lierTtehewle Sultanhtheof
and his ministers have exposed t
Christendom" are then ascribed to—what ? exigencies
To the ambi-
tion of Russia Was that- the cause of the exigencies of
.
Christendom and of the perilous position of Turkey which
are pointed out in the instructions of the Secretary of
State? - No; the cause which Lord Clarendon assigns is,
not the ambition of Russia, but "-the unwise policy and
reckless mal-admiuistration of the Sultan himself." Now
I ask the house, is this the way to maintain the indepen-
dence of a power menaced by the Warlike legions of Rus-
sia ? Was it at this moment of its utmost need, of its
utmost exigency—was this the moment to lecture Turkey
about internal reforms and commercial reforms. (Oppo-
sition cheers.) And when these admonitions are coupled
with a significant intimation that at this moment the con-
duct of the Porte must be distinguished by the utmost
moderation and prudence— what is that but to say—what
is that but to hint, that the Porte should comply with the
demands of Russia ? Demands of course (I will make this
concession to the Ministry)—demands of course consistent
with the independence of the Porte : but the word inde-
pendence is to be interpreted is obvious from the insolent
character of our friendly dictation. (Hear, hear.) Now,
sir, here we are. We have come to this point. Weeks,
even months are passing. You may examine a blue book
[an allusion to a member on the alinisterial bench so en-
gaged], but you will not change the facts. (Laughter.)
Weeks, and months are passing—still the armies of Russia
are collected on the frontier—still the Minister of Russia
tells you there is one thing that his master will never
change about, and that is, in his determination to have
an equivalent—a compensation to the Greek Church for
the privilege which it has lost, and means by which a
security for these now rights shall be obtained. Still
you have that important mission announced, with instruc-
tions—and still we have not the slightest tittle of evidence
that her Majesty's Government ever demanded from
Russia an explicit declaration of what he meant. (Hear,
ihear.) Well, Prince Menschikoff arrived. at Coisatanti-
nople—l hurry over, or but will very slightly glance at
circumstances which are so familiar to every gentlemen

his house,
and I only touch upon these circumstances at
all that my statement may be complete. He arrives at
Constantinople. I need say nothing about the despatch of
Colonel Rose, one of most able and most ill-used of public
men: (Hear, hear, from the Opposition.) What does
Colonel Rose tell you ? He tells you of the arrogant bear-
ing of the Russian Minister—he tells you of the secret
threats of the Porte—he tells you that a Turkish secretary
of state has been ignominiously expelled—he tells you that
the Prime Minister threatens to resign, and that the Grand
Vizier sends for him (Colonel Rose), and informs him
that the independence of Turkey is at stake. He himself
expresses in his despatch that the circumstances are most
exigent, and that unless some step is taken, he can no
longer answer for the independence of Turkey or for the
balance of power. (Hear, hear.) He tells you all this. I
hardly stop to criticise these important circumstances ;
and if Ido stop at all, it is only to answer an argument
which has been urged in this house, and also in the other
House of Parliament, viz., that Colonel Rose, when he
demanded that our fleet should be sent to the Greek
waters, was precipitate in making that request, because
he afterwards acknowledged that the arrival of the fleet
was unnecessary. But it seems to be forgotten that it was
notorious, not only at Constantinople but at Paris, that
Colohel Rose had sent for the fleet; and that an alteration
in the tone of the Russian envoy was occasioned by this
announcement. (Hear, hear.) That was the natural in-
ference ; and whilst I will never quote from a private autho-
rity in this house, althoughin this easel possess the highest
yet I say that this was the fact. Well, yogi had these des-
patches of Colonel Rose, and not only these despatches,
nut you had on the the 19th of March (when Colonel
Rose was writing) Sir H. Seymour—not a man who
is distinguished by his want of confidence in Russia- -not a
man who would be eager to describe the conduct of Count
Nesselrode as fraudulent—and I should say as great a dip-
lomatist as probably ever flourished at a northern court—
how does he write? Before I vrestune to read an extract,
I beg the house to believe me that it is not merely for cri-
tical observation that I for a moment entreat their atten-
tion to this despatch—l havo an object in so doing—l have
a result to offer to the house, upon the merits of which the
house will decide; but I cannot fairly put it before the
house with any regard to justice in the investigation with-
out referring to this document. Well, how does Sir H.
Seymour write ? While Colonel Rose was despatching by
every means and every opportunity the most agitated mis-
sives that were ever sent by a diplomatist, on the 19th
March Sir. H. Seymour says, that he asked Count Nessel-
rode, " What credit was to be attached to the rumours,
which reached me from so many quarters, as to military
preparations in the course of being made?" Count Nessel-
rode answers, that he believed he might state that I had
pot been correctly informed. Sir H. Seymour then in-
quires, " Does your excellency authorise me to assert that
you are not arming, or am I only to report that you be-
lieve you are not arming ?" (Laughter.) Count Nessel-
rode replies, "I will not assert, but I have reason to be-
lieve—(renewed laughter)—that the tendency is rather to
slacken than to urge on military preparation." Sir H.
Seymour then says, " I apprehend this relaxation of pre-
paration to allude to the order for the purchase of horses,
which has been rescinded." Well, after all this—after all
the despatches of Colonel Rose—after this despatch from
Sir H. Seymour, which I have just read, what is the tone
of the new Secretary of State? What is the tone of the
statesman who drew up the instructions to Lord Strat-
ford ? What effect is produced upon him by all that he
read .and all that he heard ? On the 22d (of March) he
writes to Lord Cowley, and of course reports to that able
man, in nearer contiguity with him, his impression. He
says, " I had yesterday a long interview with Count
Walewaki upon the events that have recently .taken place
at Constantinople." Let the house remember what those
events were—the Turkish Ministry expelled, and the Grand
Vizier announcing that the independence of his country is
at stake, secret intimations thattreaties would be demanded
that would destroy Turkej— the personal explanation of
Colonel Rose that even the balance of power was at stake—
and the despatch of Sir H. Seymour, showing how un-
satisfactory was his communication with Count Nessel-
rode. Lord Clarendon gave this as his private, but calm
and dispassionate summary of all that had occurred to
Lord Cowley at Paris : " When the intelligence from Con-
stantinople was analysed, and divested of the colouring
imparted to it by local excitement, there was but one fact
to deal with." What was that ? Was it the armament of

Russia ? No ; that " Prince Menschikoff had declined to
hold official intercourse with Fuad Effendi," the Turkish
Minister. Lord Clarendon says he had informed Count
Walewski that Fuad Effendi had resigned, " but Prince
Menschikoff had not required this, and he had declared
that no disrespect was intended to the Sultan by the omis-
sion of the customary visit to his minister." This is the
summary of Lord Clarendon of all these events. Lord
Clarendon not only denounces, I must say, the order of
Col. Rose for advancing the British fleet, but he absolutely
expresseshitnself glad that Admiral Dundas had not obeyed
him, and even regrets the order given to the French admi-
ral to proceed to the Greek waters, treating France with
this sententious dogma that certainly will not soon be for-
gotten, or which will last at least as long as the war, viz.,
that "a policy of suspicion was neither wise nor safe."
Lord Clarendon adds, and it is of great importance to notice
it, that "her Majesty's Government were disposed to place re-
liance on the Emperor of Russia's solemn assurances to up-
hold the Turkish empire '• " and that he was " bound to
believe that the mission of Prince Menschikoff was not of a
character menacing to the independence and integrity of
Turkey." Now, I again remind the house that we
have no evidence, so far as I can recollect, in the state papers
on the table, of these personal assurances of the Emperor.
Ido not say that it may not be most discreet and wise on
tho part of the Government not to give us the despatches
in which these assurances are made, but in the absence of
the documents we are bound to speculate on what may be
their possible character ; and judging from all the antece-
dents in our position, it is quite possible that the Emperor
of Russia may have said to Sir H. Seymour—as, I believe,
he has said to great personages in this country and in other
countries—that nothing would induce him to take any step
to destroy the independence and integrity of the Ottoman
empire ' • that he sought no territorial aggramlisements ;
and that that was a policy which he was perfectly ready to
maintain. All this is perfectly consistent with everything
which has, up to this period, occurred on the part of Rus-
sia, and respecting which our Government asked no ex-
planation. Now, I cannot presume to apologise for react-
ing the language of a Minister of State on a subject of this
importance, because, if I make the statement from mere
recollection, I shall be told in the debate that I have given
a false colour to or have garbled a despatch. I have quoted
nothing from these despatches but to illustrate one idea.
Now, what does Lord Clarendon write to our ambassador
at Constantinople at the same time, " that our Govern-
ment feels no alarm at the reports of Colonel Rose—that
we feel quite secure that the objects of Prince Menschi-
koff's mission, whatever they may be" (so that therefore,
at this period, the Ministry had no description by Russia
of what those objects were; but Lord Clarendon says)—
The objects of Prince Menschikoff, whatever they may
be, do not expose the authority of the Sultan, or the in-
tegrity of his dominions ; so far from thinking that Tur-
key has anything to apprehend" (and he goes out of his
way to accuse our only solitary ally in Europe, and says)
" our only grounds for apprehending embarrassment is the
position which has been for some time occupied by France
with respect to the holy places, a question really settled."
Well, I am not surprised when I trace the policy of
her Majesty's Government as indicated. through all
their despatches up to this moment, that Count Nes-
selrode should have told our minister at St. Pe-

tersburg, that he looked very hopefully to a peaceable solu-
tion of this question ; and the hon. gentleman who intro-
duced this discussion—and, I must say, in a speech which
did not disappoint the expectations of the house (cheers)—
who was quite entitled to introduce the subject, not only
from his former connection with the embassy at Constan-
tinople, but from the great ability that he has Lshown on
other subjects, and his general knowledge of the East—

the hon. inember for Aylesbury (Mr. Lay;rd) very properly
touched upon that very extraordinary despatch, which, at
this time, came from St. Petersburg, in which we are in-
formed that the Emperor of Russia is grateful for the salu-
tary impulse given to the policy of this country by the
accession of Lord Aberdeen and Lord Clarendon to office.
(Hear.) In that despatch the hon. gentleman reminded
us that we are told that the Emperor of Russia was grate-
ful to Lord Aberdeen for that renewed instance of his

confidence—(hear, hear)—and the hou gentleman quoted
a phrase which amused the house, and I believe has some-
what diverted the country—namely, what was happy irony
when Count Nesselrode complimented Lord Aberdeen on
the bold role he was playing (Laughter.) But I think that
the hon. member for Aylesbury made a great mistake in
that quotation, which was somewhat short if I remember

right: The first minister of the country is complimented by
Count Nesse'rode, not merely on the new and bold role he

is playing, but that bold role-is defined • and what is that
definition !--namely, that he has.left France isole. (Hear,
hear.) Now, sir, I will refer very slightly to thereat of those
despatches ; but it is absolutely necessary, I think, in justice
to the Government as well as to the point which I wish to
impress upon the house, and at which I am now rapidly ar-
riving, that I should not leave out several passages, because
I do not wish to be told hereafter that I stated the case
unfairly. On the Ist of April Colonel Rose informed the
country of the secret invention which Prince Menschikoff
proposed. Colonel Rose had not been looked upon as an
authority; but there was a timely vindication of the
discrimination and sagacity of Colonel Rose, because in ten
days afterwards, on thellth of April, Lord Stratford arrives
at Constantinople, and confirms everything that Colonel
Rose stated, not in thut original despatch, but in the des-
patch of the Ist of April, in which he gives a minute
(Hear,
terns'
tdf
os
rus pwoostilethat a
va
en
oip
en c deedntthtehat
eyes waso f
thosecount of the secret convention proposed by Russia.
con
wedho
talk so much of Russian duplicity, but who
hbyeaLLrdisSh
forgotten that there may be an English seem to have
posite character. (Laughter.) Yet aft cina
I y of
an
°P.
of Clarendon writes thus—afterall er this, the Earl
Colonel Rose is confirmed by the information from
the highest authority, Lord
Stratford—after Lord Stratford has announced that
Rus-
sia is trying to obtain a
which would secret convention from Turkey
destroy its independence, Lord Clarendon
writes to Sir George Seymour, May the 16th : " That her
Majesty's Government being compelled either to think
that Prince Menschikoff had exceeded his instructions, or
to doubt the assurances they had received, they did not
entertain the latter alternative." Now, when Lord Cla-
rendon introduces the question of an alternative, he says,
" Her Majestys Government have felt the advantage of
the frank and friendly explanations offered by the Emperor
of Russia," which never have been seen by the House of
Commons, and which enabled them to disregard the ap-
prehensions which the proceedings of Prince .Menschikoff,
coupled with the military preparations, had not unnatu-
rally produced. (Hear, hear.) Immediately after, Prince
leaves Constantinople; and on June the Bth
Count Nesselrode, in a despatch to Baron Brunow, to be
delivered to Lord Clarendon, announced the occupation of
the principalities. Now I will not refer to that despatch,
because I think that every gentleman is familiar with it,
and if they look to it they will see the bearing of it on
the argument I am about to offer. I say that that de-
spatch proves—if the view of the Government be right—
violence and perfidy—violence against Turkey, because it
announces that, because Turkey has not chosen to yield
to its dictation in a course which Turkey believes menaces
its independence, Russia had resolved to have recourse to
force—(hear) ;—and perfidy, because, according to the view
of the Government, Count Nesselrode had, up to that mo-
ment, been deceiving them. (Hear, hear.) With regard
to the latter point, what does he say iu the despatch?
lie says that, from thp very first he had communicated to
the Government of England his intentions with regard to
Turkey. (Hear, hear.) When the Russian army occu-
pies the provinces, the Russian Minister declares that his
Sovereign has remained faithful to his declaration to the
English Government, and that he did not conceal from
them that the time might come when he would he
obliged to have recourse to arms. He compliments the
English Government on the friendly disposition it
has shown, blaming France, and throwing the blame
of Prince Menschikors failure, of all 'men in n the
world, on Lord Stratford. (Hear, hear.) We Want to
have this declaration of the Emperor of Russia want
more than the declaration of the Emperor of i,u,—we
want the despatch: We want the evidence of this early
declaration from Count Nesselrode to the English Gov -
wont, of the whole intentions and policy of his conntey