The Sun.
London, England, 1854-08-23 00:00:00

T.HI3 NEW .SERI? ACT.

DEPUTATION TO THE COMMISSIONIIRS OP

POLICE.

Yesterday ft deputation, congaing of -Mr. -L B. Simp-
' son, Cremorne-house ; Mr. W:. Luce, King's Arms
IT ' .ptoia•court_; Mr. J. W. Adams, Star and
Gan. --vzbridge ; and Mr. J. lirby, White Lion,
Putn ,ed on_ Sir Richard Mayne, at Scotland-yard,
to state the grievances inflicted upon them and upon
the public by the operation of the new act, and to take
hi, opinion as to the meaning of the word " traveller:'
Mr. Hinton, Highbury Barn, and Mr. Conquest, Eagle
Tavern, although unable to attend, concurred in the ob-
ject of the deputation.
Mr. T. B. SIMPSON introduced the deputation, and
stated their object to be to take Sir Richard's advice as
to the best mode of proceeding under the new act, and
to show how seriously it interfered, not with their in-
terests, but with the recreations and comforts of the
public.
Mr. LUCE wished to call the commissioner's attention
to the hardship that bad been inflicted in his case. His
customers were principally gentlemen who came more
who
distinctly ueenndesrotdheefidneesdigbuyatioinr. oLfotnrgavieullberiss
dtehcainsiotnhose
re-
specting Jack Straw's Castle. Ho had requested some
of them to put down their names in a book, and to state
their opinions of the new act, and he begged the com-
missioner to look over it. (Mr. Luce here produced a
book containing the signatures of persons from almost
nil parts of the world—Cairo, Turin, United States, Ire-
land, Scotland, Germany, &0., who having visited his
house on Sundays since the passing of the act, protested
in various languages against its inconvenience and op-
presive character.) These parties all applied to him for
refreshment as travellers, and his object in attending
there was to ask the commissioner in how far the inspec-
tor was justified in summoning him for supplying
them.
Sir R. M.iva said that it was the duty of the police
London. He
IHbtoewo
kahsawdfhonircohtt
to obtain cases for the decision of the magistrates. His
dutyb was merely executive—to see that the law was
he
re.msagistrates to decide on the
proper interpretation of the law. With respect to the
Luceght
slightest
I dispositioncproduced,me lastttoh
carry r o-
bability was that all the travellers had fromP
if pdthori
be
trade
duty
nu was
decidedat had
iadtt
inconvenienced,
tmeaningnboetpb rr
oinp
out the law in an inconvenient or
ge 1'
thetbrui ebtcuwa hus
cases oppressiveth orrada'n'nt;,
but
nwveoaltsl tra-
veller" rtse'
o'wrdsar
doing
should
fals.b
shouldefonr
e e-
the magistrates.

Mr. IrcE said he supposed that in districts where
the magistrates had decided the police would not again
interfere.

The COMMISSIONER said it was not for him to say. If
a number of magistrates decided the same way, it would
of course be a guide to him in carrying out the acts.
Mr. LLTE observed that, from the mode in which the
act had been hurried through Parliament, at the close of
the session, one half the public were not aware of its pro-
visions.

Sir IL MAYNE repeated that he had nothing to do
with that matter. His duty was to see the law exe-
cuted; but it was no part of his intention to have it
carried out in a harsh or oppressive manner. He had
told the superintendent to caution Mr. Luce on last
Sunday that he was infringing the law, and be intended
to take the opinion of the magistrate. By that opinion
he, of course, would be guided in future proceedings.
Mr. LACE wished to take Sir Richard's opinion as to
whether, the police having obtained sufficient evidence
of the infringement of the law in his coffee room on Sun-
day last, they were justified in insisting upon entering
private rooms, when parties were at dinner.
Sir E. MAINE said that that depended on the circum-
stances of the ease. He would cause inquiry to be made.
Police officers had a right to do many things from which
they refrained, as his instructions to them always was to
carry out the law with as much moderation as possible.
Mr. T. B. SIMPSON* said that hie case differed some-
what from that of Mr. Luce, but equally showed the
unfair operation of the act. Indeed, he believed that if
Pailiament had known the real nature of the case they
would never have passed it at all.
Sir R. MAYNE asked whether it bad not been brought
in by Mr. W. Patten ?
Mr. B. SIMPSON—Yes, he had endeavoured to con-
form to the act as much as possible, but last Sunday had
not been able to please the inspector. He had closed
all the bars, and had ceased to serve customers before
10 o'clock, but found it impossibe to clear the people
out for 20 minutes after. The inspector said he Must
report, but he (Mr. Simpsoi ) wanted to know how he
was to clear 1,500 people out of his grounds in less than
20 minutes. He had been told that at Gravesend the
act was set at open defiance, and that at the Star and
Garter, Richmond, business was carried on just as usual.
The inspector had told him he must clear out at 10, as
an example to his neighbours, but it should be recol-
lected that they had probably to clear out only 12 feet
square, while he had 12 acres. They might have 20
people to remove, while he had 1,500. The inspector
further asked him why the house could not be cleared on
Sunday as well as on Saturday night ; but his answer
was, that in one case the people knew the law, and
thought it just ; in the other, they did not, and thought
the curtailment of their liberty unreasonable. On Satur-
day night the bell rang, and in five minutes every one
was out ; but on Sunday, on the Fame signal, there was
almost an eiii coc in the grounds, so angry were the pub-
lic at what they considered to be an arbitrary and tyran-
nical restriction. They yelled, hooted, and tumbled the
lamps and glasses about. He had had averages of 7,000,
8,000, and 10,000 people at Cremorne on Sunday after-
noons, and order and decorum were preserved by oa•
policeman. These crowds were no drunkards, but respect.
able members of the community, who, having saved their
money during the week, came out to enjoy the fresh
air on Sundays.
Sir R. Mavere said he could himself speak to the
good order which prevailed in Cremorne-gardens, but
the question they had now to consider was, that there
was a certain law, and they must conform to it. He
should think, however, that if the sale of liquors was
honestly closed at ten o'clock, a reasonable time might
be allowed by the police for clearing the grounds. He
meant, of course, a bonic fide closing ; as the law might
be evaded by buying a large quantity just before the
time.

(Sir R. Mayne then sent for the summoning book,
and showed that although several summonses had been
issued, the cases did not agree with that described by
Mr. Simpson.)
Mr. KIRBY (White Lion, Putney) said that on last
Sunday he had several gentlemen come to his house in
broughams and phaetons, who ordered dinner. They
also wanted wine and ale, and he wished to know who.
ther he should be justified in supplying them
eionitnteoyflaasawnidaecxttehcoaeftted. parliament. All he had to
Sir R. MAYNN declined giving any opinion on th
aaconi‘s ttrro. u
scKet
one-half the public were
aware that such a law had been passed. The fact was,
that the whole trade had been " sold" by the Licensed
Victuallers' Protection Society, which was governed by
about a dozen gin-shop keepers in London, whose busi-
ness was quite different from that of suburban hotels.
He was obliged to lay in poultry, fish, and other perish.
able food, and if not allowed to sell them on Sunday
they would all be dead loss.
Mr. ADAMS (Star and Garter) said he had a to ble
d'hote on Sundays for respectable people coming from
London. All the food would be lost, if he were obliged.
strictly to obey the late act.
Sir R. MAYNE said that these cases might be hard-
ts
hh
ei plsa,
wb uwtatsh, ea
iquiu etset i
ho
an
vfeo
it hei
xme teot eads, c e rat aei n
wwisahsed what
done as moderately as possible, and for that reason ha d
suggested the taking of all power from the common in-
flrmer. The summonses were now all applied for by
the police, and he refused more than be granted.
The deputation then withdrew, having first thanked
Sir Richard Mayne for the great courtesy with which
they had been received.