The Sun.
London, England, 1854-02-01 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 1, 1854.

advsrsion of what he believed to be the new scheme of
reform, Lord Derby proceeded,—My lords, I think that
Parliament would be neglecting its duty if it were to alto-
gether abstain from commenting upon a proceeding which
has taken place, and to which I have already incidentally
referred. For the space of 12 days the country was with-
out a Minister at the Home-office. (Hear, to ar.) Nor
was it the case of an ordinary minister, nor did it take
place at an ordinary time, but at the very crisis in our
foreign affairs, and when the attention of her Majesty's
Government ought to have been, and, no doubt, was,
almost exclusively directed to the consideration of our
foreign policy. (Hear, hear.) The country was suddenly
startled by an announcement, given in great detail and
with great apparent knowledge of the facts of the case,
that a minister from whom I have differed in opinion, but
whom I believe to possess great knowledge of foreign affairs,
and who, by the great portion of the country, was more
trusted than any other minister, had ceased to hold office.
(Hear.) That announcement was accompanied by a state-
ment, which has never been contradicted, and which I
have no reason for not believing, of the circumstances
which led to that resolution, and various comments, ac-
cording to the inclinations of various parties, were made. I
have often, as I have before stated, differed from that noble
lord, but I entertain a high respect for his knowledge and
his great abilities. (Hear.) After the expiration of twelve
days, during which period it was stated that noble lords
and right hon. gentlemen had been asked to accept office,
the public were equally astonishe'l at learning that it was
all a mistake, and that the noble lord the member for
Tiverton was again in his place, and that the circum-
stances connected with the affair would be found most
honourable to all parties. It is in the hope that such may
oe the case that I venture to ask from the noble earl oppo-
site some explanation of that which, unexplained, exposes
her Majesty's Government, collectively and also individu-
ally, to serious misapprehension. The resignation of a
Secretary of State is not to be lightly tendered, and
should not be 'accepted but upon the ground of absolute
necessity, or of paramount difference, at a period
when the country is in difficulty, and when the
talent and ability of a single man may be most use-
ful. But, my lords, either the question upon which
the Government differed, and upon which the noble
viscount tendered his resignation was one of vital
and paramount importance, or it was a minor question.
If it were a question of minor importance, and one capable
of explanation, I ask whatjnstification is there for a ten-
der of resignation on the part of the noble viscount, or for
the acceptance of that resignation by the noble earl oppo-
site, without any effort to retain the services of his col-
league ? If the difficulty was one which could be got over
immediately, both parties have much to explain for leav-
ing the country for a time without the services of a Secre-
tary of State for the Home Department. If, on the other
hand, the difference was such as to justify the resignation
on the one side, and the acceptance of that resignation on
the other—if it were so irreconcileable that no argument
could have got over it, no explanation have settled it, then,
I must say, that the subject is one which deserves the
attention of Parliament. The whole affair is only ex-
plicable on the supposition that, as reconciliation
was impossible, either one party or the other must
have abandoned the principles which rendered it neces-
sary to tender a resignation on the one side, and to
accept it on the other. (Hear, hear, hear.) I repeat,
my lords, that Parliament would not be doing its duty if
it did not require from the noble earl some explanation of
this singular fact. How is it that there should be a resig-
nation of a leading Minister tendered and accepted, and
yet that, after the expiration of 12 days, without any
alteration of external circumstances, we find men differing
so materially from each other sharing the same councils
and- sitting in the same Cabinet? The original formation
of her Majesty's present Government was not such as to
lead the public to entertain any great confidence as to
the uniformity of its opinions. Their sentiments, it ap-
pears, are such that, upon a question about co be
submitted to Parliament, a Minister has resigned, and
has again resumed office. It will become necessary to
inquire which of the Ministers has given way, and
which is the presiding genius of the Cabinet? (Cheers.)
This is a matter which cannot increase the confidence
which Parliament and the country feel in the manner in
which public men act together. I have ventured to touch
upon this subject, because it is one which does not touch
upon the personal character of the noble lord, but it is one
which casts considerable doubt on the manner in which
the public business of the country is carried-on by her
Majesty's present advisers. I think that after this
long debate there is no necessity for calling upon your
lordships to vote on an amendment to the address, but I
would submit the propriety of the insertion of the word
"intimidation." I can assure the noble earl opposite
that, whatever may be the difference of our political
opinions, we agree in desiring to light upon the best means
of rescuing the country 'from its difficult position with
honour to her arms and to the character of the nation.
(Hear, hear.)
The Earl of ABERDEEN.—My lords, while I think
that some of the subjects touched upon by the noble earl
opposite can be much better discussed at another period,
there is ono point of the noble earl's speech which demands
immediate attention, and to which I am now desirous of
replying. It must be obVious that after the notice given
that this night your lordships shall have full information
of the whole of these long, complicated negotiations, that
it is most desirable as well as convenient to abstain from
founding arguments upon information we know to be in-
correct, and in many instances directly the reverse of the
truth. It would be natural that we should abstain under
such circumstances from such discussions, but I suppose
the temptation was too strong for the noble earl, who could
not consent to postpone the opportunity of attacking the
Government upon the question, even to one other night.
The noble earl has thought proper to say that the Emperor
of Russia had good reason to complain of her Majesty's
Government, and he especially directed his observations to
me. The noble earl said to me that my known reluctance
to engage in war, and the declarations I had already made
on the subject, were such as to mislead the Emperor of
Russia, and make him believe that I would never be a
party to engage in hostilities against him. Now I am
quite ready to repeat all the declarations I have ever
made against this country being engaged in war with any
state, and certainly with Russia. The people of this. coun-
try have not unfrequently rashly and hastily engaged in
war, which they have afterwards repented for at leisure.
(Hear, hear.) Now, I consider it to be my duty and that
of the Government, not under any circumstanc-s not to
engage in war, but to use every possible effort to check—
even when I feel it is laudable and natural, as I admit it to
be in the present instance—the popular feeling of indigna-
tion against that which appears aggression and injustice—
still, I say, it is the duty of the Government to restrain
within the bounds of prudence and restrain even the indul-
gence of a feeling which I admit to be perfectly natural.
But the noble earl has made an odious accusation against
me. I must remind your lordships that it is not only the
statements of yourselves, but it is the opinion and declara-
tion of all statesmen, that no war can be justifiable unless
it partakes of the nature of a war of self-defence. Now,
my feeling, my notion, my opinion of war is such, that, as
I have already said in this house, I think it the greatest
proof of the thorough depravity and corruption of human
nature that anything so horrible as war should ever be just
and lawful. Yet such, I lament to say, is the case ; and
we must all admit that war is not only one of the greatest
of all calamities, but it is too often the greatest folly and
the greatest wickedness that a people can commit. I repeat,
therefore, in the strongest terms, all that I have ever
uttered upon the subject of the horror and detestation
which I entertain of war. Still I most readily admit that
there must be exceptions. Although we cannot pretend
that there is any danger to this country in the war at pre-
sent existing between Russia and the Porte, yet in the pro-
per preservation of the balanca which has been established
in Europe, it may, no doubt, be considered in some sense
as acting in self-defence when we seek to preserve the re-
lative position and power of various 'states which are
necessary to the security and safety of the whole. But
again, I say, the noble earl has made an odious accusation
against me, and it has been repeated over and over again
in quarters which are supposed to be much connected with
the noble earl and his friends. In truth, your lordships
may have observed that for some time past the whole
censure of the public press that is opposed to the principles
of the government has been concentrated on me. My
noble friend near me (the Earl of Clarendon), who is
naturally charged with the conduct of these affairs,
should naturally be the prominent person for those par-
ties to remark upon—but my noble friend has passed com-
pletely without observation. (Laughter.) When your
lordships come to see the volume which will be laid
upon your table to-night your lordships will then
see with what ability, zeal, and perseverance my noble
friend has carried on these negotiations, and you will then
be able to judge of how well he deserves a share of these
attacks. Now it was even stated by a paper in Constan-
tinople that I had received a hogshead of gold from the
Emperor of Russia; and the press that is connected with
the friends of the noble earl opposite has indulged in simi-
lar accusations, and charged me with being the tool and
instrument of the Russian Emperor. Now it is a singular
fact that perhaps few public men in this country have ever
written more, or with greater acrimony, I may say, in the
terms I used, than I have written of the Russian Govern-
ment. (Laughter.) It is true that one of my honourable
or my right honourable calumniators of the press has ac-
cused me of betraying the honour and interest of this coun-
try in this year in the same way as he says I had done in
the year 1829. Now that is rather an inconsistent accusa-
tion. I am quite ready to share and to take all the respon-
sibility that any person pleases to impose on me for all
that has been done by the Government in the course of the
present year ; but, if it is true that I am a person who be-
trayed the honour and interest of this country in this year,
I beg to say that the same charge cannot apply to my con-
duct in 1829 • for at that period I occupied the situation
of my noble friend (Lord Clarendon), and I flatter myself
I was then cordially identified in conduct and opinion with
one who knew something of the honour and interest of this
country, and whose opinions connected with the principles
of the foreign policy of this country were much respected,
and who was considered as good an exponent of sound po-
licy as any man living. No man living had enjoyed more
of that statesman's confidence than I had ; and no man,
whether in or out of office, was in more frequent daily
communication with him than myself. I am, therefore,
somewhat fortified in my opinions when I feel that I have
endeavoured to act upon the principle upon which that
great man would have acted if he were now alive. In order
to show the character of my official relations with Russia
on that occasion, I may just mention that I have been
charged with the authorship of the treaty of Adrianople.
Now, when I recollect the part I took on that occasion,
and the despatches I then wrote upon the subject of that
ttizta.t/nl,iernaltaydavi,tehnrosusiotlicilllbo
eff asrtethiheeec
noble
selected
eaasllooari(sii.otcoul comprehend how
the
lain
how that matter stands
not incorrect in sayingt,hfaotr
the
ee
mannerputrposemoowfefilii.nl altyhtjoioue%ffivssett.
cnrievgaxiiTlP: am
oni-
nm:cation with Russia was
otherwise. I think it was intheacrimonious year 1827, during the
administration of Lord Melbourne, that the noble viscount
came to me on the occasion of 801110 notice of motion in the
House of Commons, and asked me whether I would have ;
any objection to the production of the dispatch I wrote on ;
the subject of that treaty of Adrianople, and of the criti-
cism I made upon such treaty. (Hear.) He came to me, I
however, two or three days afterwards, and he said that
upon further reflection, though he conceived the dispatch
most admirable, yet it had better not be produced on ma
count of the Russian government. There is the same accu-
sation against me running through all the organs of noble
lords opposite—at one time the accusation is that I am
Austrian, now that I am Russian, and then that I am, as
it were, Austro-Russian. (Laughter.) It certainly is very
true that I had the honour of being accredited as ambassa-
dor to the court of Austria some 40 years ago, but, except
that at rare intervals, I have had some communication

with that veteran statesman, who still lives, and who once
took so active a part in the conduct of the atLirs of that
empire, I have had no more relations with Austria than
with Japan. (Loud laughter.) I have, nevertheless, my
lords, no doubt that Austria is tho natural ally of this.
country—that her alliance is one which I desire always to
see cultivated ; for I think there is no point of collision,
nor can there be any point of difference that might or
ought to prevent us acting cordially with her on all great
European questions. Further, my' lords, I do not deny
that I entertain the greatest possible desire to preserve
friendly relations with Russia, and that I regret most
deeply the state in which we at present stand in refer-
ence to that power. (Hear, hear.) For although " the
strictest alliance with Russia was the most important
one that this country could possibly frame," still I
admit that is one of the greatest possible importance
to this country, and therefore, seeing the present position '
of affairs, however unavoidable on our part, it is undoubt-
edly one to be viewed with the deepest regret. The noble
earl has said, and others have said also, that whatever
might have been our desire to escape from the horrors of
war, nevertheless the dangers which now hang over us are
attributable to her Majesty's Government, and he says,— 1
"If you had met the state of matters with a little more
vigour, or with a more explicit declaration of our inten-
tions. that things could never have come to their present
pass." Now, in answer to all this, I would beg noble
lords opposite to suspend their opinions until they are able
to see what we actually did. But again I should beg to
be allowed to state that a vigorous course, as it is termed,
is not the course which I should, under the circumstances,
have thought wise or politic. In the first place, my lords,
I look upon such a course as a sort of game of brag, not
very much to be admired. No doubt the menacing tone
may be successful with feeble states on certain occasions ;
but to hold such language to a great power, you must be
prepared, not only to succeed, but also to fail, and must,
consequently make up your minds to employ force if not
snccessful. Now, I must, say at the period referred to by
the noble earl it would have been the most impudent thing
in the world to have held such language without the cer-
tainty of success. Why, my lords, in the first place,
Turkey was utterly unprepared—(hear, near)— she had no
army. And, therefore, if we had told the Emperor if he
did not comply with the demands of Turkey that he must
expect war on our part, what would have been his answer?
Why, he would have marched straight for Constantinople;
and, probably, meeting with no difficulty in a single cam-
paign, he would have reached it. But besides this, my
lords, the Porte had not declared war against Russia.
Russia, indeed, had occupied the Principalities, and had
given due and full right to the Porte to declare war if she
thought fit so to do ; but the Porte, taking their own
view of their own interests, thought fit not so to declare
war ; and in so doing they met with the consent and
approbation of her Majesty's government and her Majesty's
ambassador at Constantinople, who certainly has the inte-
rest of the Turkish empire as much at heart as any noble
lord opposite can desire. Well, my lords, the consequence
of pursuing that course of policy has been that time for
preparation having been afforded to the Porte, we have
witnessed those efforts on her part—(cheers)—which have
met with the laudation of the noble earl, and which in a
military view have surprised those who had formed a less
opinion of the resources of the Turkish empire than the
noble earl. Nor could we then have approached Constan-
tinople without a breach of treaty until the Porte had de-
clared war against Russia, and at the same time, he
deemed it of great consequence to have the German powers
with us, which, though they have not adopted the same
vigorous measures that we have done, have nevertheless
greatly assisted in the negotiations. The noble earl also
seemed to say that not only had the Emperor of Russia
grounds for blaming her Majesty's Government, but also
that the Emperor of France had. Now, so far as this is
concerned, I have had the honour and happiness of being
able to inform his Majesty myself what my feelings are on
the subject. But whatever I may be accused of, an objec-
tion such as that can never be justly made against me.
For whether under Charles X., under Louis Philippe, or
under the present Emperor, my settled opinion always has
been that we ought to cultivate the French alliance to the
most intimate possible extent. (Hear, hear.) Why who,
my lords, was the author of the expression which has
passed so current of late—the entente cordiale—why it came
into vogue when I myself held the seals of the Foreign-
office, now• so much more worthily filled by my noble
friend. But perhaps it will be some comfort to the noble
earl opposite, who thinks I am so very Russian in my
tendencies, to hear that, although the freedom of the
press is rather shackled in Russia, that freedom of speech
is tolerably free ; and I am informed that it is
fully and loudly declared in St. Petersburg that Count
Nesselrode has been a traitor to his country, and
that he is the emissary of her Majesty's Government.
(Loud cheers from the Ministerial benches.) I believe,
however, my lords, that both our purses have derived
about the same advantage from the policy which has been
pursued on this question. (Laughter, and cheers.) My
lords, as there will be a further opportunity of entering
on the particulars of these negotiations, I shall not follow
up the subject any further, except in reference to a point
on which the noble earl has fallen entirely into mistake,
in reference to the separation of the Vienna notes. The
note to which he referred was not a general one—it was
merely a French one, and that may not be so distasteful
to the noble earl as if it had been prepared by her Ma-
jesty's Government. (Hear, and laughter.) But what-
ever it was, it was sent on the very same day to St.
Petersburgh and to Constantinople—nay, more. it was
shown on the very same day to the Russian and Turkish
Ministers at Vienna at the time it was so transmitted.
Therefore, there was a perfect equality, a perfect impar-
tiality in the mode of dealing with the question. My
lords, the noble earl has made a great point of the publi-
cation of a despatch of my noble friend in a newspaper—
which had been refused to Parliament. My lords, that course
was rendered necessary in consequence of the erroneous
statements appearing in foreign journals, and which other-
wise might seriously have affected the public service. But
the noble lord has also dealt very much upon another in-
stance of the confidential communications made to this
journal, and in particular he has referred to the circum-
stances attending the resignation of my noble friend the
Secretary for the Home Department. He said, that her
Majesty had learned the fact of that resignation from the
Times newspaper.
The Earl of DERBY—What I meant to convey to your
lordships was, that the articles in question appeared be-
fore her Majesty was informed of the fact.

The Earl of ABERDEEN—The noble earl will then al-
low rue to inform him that what he states is not the fact.
I informed her Majesty myself of the resignation, and on
my return from the Isle of Wight I saw the articles the
very next day. How they came there, however, Ido not
know—l do not know anything about it whatever; and
that leads me to a subject on which the noble earl has an-
nounced his intention of extracting from her Majesty':,
Government everything connected with this transaction. I
hope, however, that the noble earl will not set his heart
very greatly upon such a task, because I will certainly feel
it my duty not to allow him to extract from me more than
I think proper. (Laughter.) Indeed, my lords, lam the
last to deny the cleverness of the noble earl, but he must
be very clever, in truth, if he can extract more from me
than I choose to communicate. (Great laughter.) How-
ever, I will not be entirely silent on the subject, but state
in general terms what were the circumstances of that trans-
action. Connected with the preparation of the measure cif
Parliamentary reform a misapprehension took place on the
part of my noble friend. Believing the provision in ques-
tion to be finally introduced into the measure, my noble
friend tendered his resignation. However, explanations
took place, and my noble friend resumed—in fact, he had
never ceased to perform the functions of the Home Depart-
ment. But when the noble earl hints that he has a right
to know the cause of the resignation, and the means by
which the reconciliation was brought about, I entirely
deny his right. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) Had my
noble friend left office, then, indeed, he would have been
bound to give a full account of his reasons for so doing.
But the noble earl opposite may think this, like Sir Lu-
cius's case, was " a very good quarrel, as it stood." I ap-
prehend, however, whether in a Cabinet or elsewhere, if a
misapprehension or misunderstanding should take place,
and that a reconciliation is brought about, that though it
may be a matter for the exercise of a mischievous curiosity
it is not a legitimate ground for inquiry. Now that is
the only answer I have to give to the noble earl. If
he can say that the public interest has suffered by what
has taken place, I have no doubt that my noble friend
will be fully able to justify the course he has pursued in
another place. (Hear.) My lords, when the noble earl
accuses me of a connection with the press, I may be allowed
to say that I consider the part taken bythat portion of the
press most devoted to him and his party to be the most
disgraceful ever exhibitor-Lin this country. (Hear.) It is
not for the noble earl to cast imputations upon others on
account of objectionable matter which appears in the
journals, for I venture to affirm that never has there ap-
peared anything in the press of this country so disgraceful
to the people and the intellect of this country—(hear)—as
the matter which has been offered day after day, of late,
to the English public by that portion of the press to which
I have referred. (Hear.) But, my lords, having defended
myself from being either Austrian or Russian, I am bound
to say, it is with the utmost astonishment I have seen
similar imputations cast upon a much more exalted per-
sonage than myself. These charges have assumed a form
which calls upon me distinctly and emphatically to meet
them. (Hear.) I call on your lordships to bear in mind
the statements of the last two weeks in reference to no less
illustrious a personage than the Prince Consort. (Hear.)
T will remind your lordships of the position occupied by
that illustrious Prince. He is the consort and adviser of
her Majesty, it cannot be denied. But then her Majesty
has no private secretary. Was there any objection to his
Majesty George IV. and his Majesty William IV. having
private secretaries ? These gentlemen. as private secre-
taries, had the opportunity of advising their Sovereign,
and yet were not Privy Councillors. (Hear, hear.) The
only objection has been that Lord Melbourne acted as
private secretary to her Majesty at the time he was First
Minister of the Crown. That is the only unconstitu-
tional proceeding at all. I can conceive something in-
compatible in it, to be sure ; but than it was hoped, and
the hope was speedily realised, that the Queen would con-
tract marriage, which would of course release him from
the performance of all these duties. (Hear, hear.) Now,
therefore, the notion that a husband should remain silent
and see his Sovereign and his wife in difficulty and embar-
rassment, and not open his mouth to give her a word of
advice or assistance —I think your lordship would form a
very extraordinary opinion of such an individual who up-
held it. (Ministerial cheers.) It has also been asserted
that it was Sir R. Peel who first encouraged this inter-
ference of his Royal Highness, and that Lord Melbourne
did not permit him to exercise the functions which he now
does so advantageously. It is true that Prince Albert
often was present when Ministers have to represent to her
Majesty that which it is their duty to represent ; and, my
lords, I must say I always extremely regret the absence of
his Royal Highness on such occasions. I appeal to noble
lords present, of whom there are several, who have had
the means and opportunities of knowing and ascertaining
the wisdom and prudence of his Royal Highness, and I
ask them to say if they ever heard a single syllable that
has not tended to the honour, the interest, and the wel-
fare of this country. (General cheering.) His Royal
Highness may entertain opinions at variance with the
Minister, but then the Minister alone is responsible—
(hear, hear)—and if her Majesty N% ished to follow the ad-
vice of his Royal Highness she can do so, but the Minister
is not bound to take the same course. (Hear, hear.) I
will now, my lords, read the last letter which Lord Mel-
bourne aedresseil to her Majesty on leaving office. It is
dated " August 30, 1841." Therefore it was written
after Sir R. Peel's Government was formed, and the day
before he !received the seals of office. The letter is as
follows : _ _ .

" Lord Melbourne cannot satisfy himself without again
stating to your Majesty, in writing, what he had the
honour of saying to your Majesty in reference to his
Royal Highness. Lord Melbourne has formed the highest
opinion of his Royal Highness's temper, judgment, and
discretion, and cannot but feel great consolation and secu-
rity in the reflection that he leaves your Majesty in a
situation in which you have the inestimable advantage of
such advice—Lord Melbourne being certain that your
Majesty cannot do better than have recourse to it when

needed, and that you will rely upon it with confidence."
To finish this odious subject, I must refer to another topic.
It has been studiously circulated that his Royal Highness
has materially interfered with the army at the Horse
Guards. Now, I can state, that so far from there being
the shadow of a foundation for this rumour, it happened
that, in 1850, it was the great desire of the Duke of Wel-
lington to make such arrangements at the Horse Guards as
would enable his Royal Highness to succeed to the position
of commander-in-chief. The duke proposed various ar-
rangements which would tend to render the acceptance of
that office easy to his Royal Highness, to whom he strongly
recommended it. But the Prince Consort, with that
sound judgment which distinguishes him, felt it would be
inconsistent with the duties which he owed to his Sovereign
and wife, and he therefore, and upon that ground alone,
declined the office, because he believed his acceptance of it
would interfere with those functions which he now dis-
charges so advantageously to the country at large. (Hear,
hear.) His Royal Highness stated at great length, and
with much clearness, to the Duke of Wellington, his rea-
sons for declining his proposition, and in that determina-
tion his grace entirely concurred. Now, my lords, these
are the miserable calumnies that have been circulated in
reference to the interference of his Royal Highness with
the army. You must recollect, my lords, that his Royal
Highness is a field marshal—(hear, hear)—that his eldest
son will be at the head of the navy; and that his Royal
Highness, God forbid the necessity should occur ! would
be called upon to act as Regent, if necessary ; and there-
fore, my lords, that he should not interfere with the army
is monstrous. (Hear, hear.) But beyond what he is en-
titled to do I deny utterly that his Royal Highness ever
interfered with the conduct or regulations of the army.
(Hear, hear.) I have thought it right to say this, and I feel
it my duty to say so, although, I 'confess, I feel ashamel
of the necessity. (Hear, hear.) lam sure the nob'e earl
opposite (Earl of Derby), although he thought proper un-
j j nstifialiy to connect what appeared in the public press with
my name, will feel an equal disgust for these calumnious
misrepresehta,tions. (Hear, hoar, and ministerial cheers.)

Lord HARDINGE and the Earl of DERBY rose to-
gether, but the noble earl gave way, and his lordship said :
After the statement of the noble earl, who has just sat
down, I beg leave to corroborate every particle of what he
has said with regard to the non-interference of his Royal
Highness with the army. (Cheers.) I believe, my lords,
that those reports were set in motion about the same time
that General Sir George Brown resigned his situation of
adjutant-general. I never saw any attack on his Royal
Highness before that time ; but when that occurrence took
place, then it was that a portion of the press entered into
a conspiracy to attack his Royal Highness for interfering
with the army. I have the patronage of about twenty-six
or twenty-seven regiments to dispose of. The mode in
which the business is transacted is this—that when there
is any appointment to dispose of, the commander-in-chief
writes a report to the Queen recommending such person as
he may think proper to succeed ; and I can state, on may
own knowledge, that in every, instance where I have sent
a recommendation it has been returned with the Queen's
signature, and in every case the recommendation has been
acceded to. (Cheers.) Therefore there has been no inter-
ference with the patronage of the army. (Cheers.) It has
been said that when the adjutant-general and the deputy-
adjutant resigned, the Master-General of the Ordnance re-
fused to take office unless he received a stipulation from
his Royal Highness that he would no longer interfere in
the army. Such a charge was too absurd to require denial.
I found on another occasion a very circumstantial account
of a conversation which it was stated the Adjutant-General
had had with me, in which he stated, with great emphasis,
that he had sworn allegiance to the Queen, and did not re-
cognise the authority of his Royal Highness in the tran-
saction of business at the Horse Guards. I immediately
wrote to General Brown, and asked him whether in any
transaction at the Horse Guards any circumstance of that
character had occurred, and he utterly denied it. (Loud
'Cheers.) It is hardly necessary to multiply 'the denial
of charges which have been cast upon his Royal
High-
ness. I will merely say that there is not a shadow of
foundation for such statements. (Hear, hear.) During
the time I have held my present appointment I have had
various conversations and communications with his Royal
Highness, and have derived great assistance from him. I
recollect last year that he suggested to me the expediency
of having a camp of instruction at Chobhain, and I entered
into the view because I thought it right. (Hear.) And I
should like to know whyl am to be debarred from commu-
nicating with his Royal Highness on matters respecting
which there is no concealment. It appears that because his
Royal Highness takes a little interest inthe armyas a field
marshal, that I and any officer in my position is to be de-
barred from communicating with him when I can commu-
nicate with any noble lord on the same subject. Such a
thing appears to me to be utterly absurd. I assert, that his
Royal Highness never interfered in any manner in the pa-
tronage or duties perksimed at the Horse Guards, but, on
the contrary, has shown every desire to offer valuable sug-
gestions.. If I am wrong in the exercise of my duty at the
Horse Guards, lam responsible. When my noble friend
opposite nominated me to my present office, he, in the most
fair and honourable manner, explained to me that my du-
ties were professional, and that I was under no obligation
to any party. During the time the present Government
have been in office I have not been interfered with in the
distribution of patronage, or the management of the busi-
, ness at the Horse Guards—(hear, hear.) I alone am respon-
sible for the manner in which I exercise the office. I have
received, asl have stated, from her Majesty my recommen-
dations regularly signed without any interference on the
part of his Royal Highness, and I repudiate as utterly un-
worthy of belief the atrocious libels which have been cir-
culated respecting him. (Loud cheers.)
, The Earl of DERBY—My lords, if the noble earl oppo-
site (the Earl of Aberdeen) thought it consistent with his
duty to enterinto anyexplanation ordiscussion of the pain-
ful and difficult topic which he has introduced into the de-
bate, I do not quarrel with his discretion, and only doubt
whether I should have exercised the same discretion under
similar circumstances. But I have an excuse for trespassing
on your attention, inasmuch as, although on the main
question I concur in almost every sentence which has
fallen from the noble earl, Ido not concur in the manner
in which ho has thought fit to introduce the subject ; and
in the presence of the noble earl I feel bound to take sonic
notice of the manner in which he has introduced it. In
the course of the observations which I made I traced what
I thought an intimate connection between a certain news-
piper, the constant supporter of the Government, and the
official intelligence or official knowledge which that news-
paper could only derive from official sources ; and I stated
that if that was the case, and that intimate connection
could be traced, on matters which could not be known out of
le Cabinet, between that paper and her Majesty's Go-
vernment, they must not be surprised if foreign Govern-
ments identified their policy with the views found in that
paper. (Hear.) Therefore the noble earl takes upon
self to say that I am the last man to throw out such an
imputation, inasmuch as he charges against a paper which
he says is the ordinary supporter of the same policy as
myself the insertion and publication of the most absurd,
and, if they are believed, the most mischievous libels.
(Hear, hear.) Now, I will not submit to the imaginary
possibility of the imputation being cast upon me that I
have had anything to do with any such insinuations or
imputations, except treating them with ridicule and con-
tempt. (Cheers and laughter.) If the noble earl means to
say, and to repeat the assertions that have been made in his
paper, the Tinter, under a signature which I suppose is not
official—under the signature " C.," whoever " C." may
be—if he means to say that these insinuations and these
slanders had their origin in the Conservative portion of
the press, I beg to say—repeating the courteous manner in
which the noble earl contradicted me on a matter of fact
—that both the noble earl who has made that statement
and the correspondent of the Times, who has made that
statement, have stated distinctly the thing which is not.
(Cheers and laughter.) Because the origin of all these
statements and insinuations—of these absurd charges,
by which the gullibility of the public has been
excited, which led crowds to attend at the doors of
the Tower to see his Royal Highness—(loud laughter)—
and which led individuals to say he was sure to have been
sent there if the Queen had not announced her intention
to go with him—(continued laughter)—l say that from the
highest and most mischievous of these insinuations, down
to those possessing the greatest absurdity, and which prac-
tised the most on gullibility of the country, had their
origin not in any portion of the Conservative press, but
in papers of an extreme Liberal opinion—in papers such
as the Morning Advertiser, which is a favourite paper, as
lam informed, of the licensed victuallers, and conse-
quently circulates- through all the pot-houses in the
country. (Great laughter.) That is a paper that I never
happen to see, but the Moratng Advertiser and the Daily
News are the two papers which have been most active in
propagating those absurd reports, and I will not presume
that either the Morning
Advertiser or the Daily News are
very cordial in the advocacy of my policy. (Hear, hear.)
When'the Prime Minister of the country attempts to con-
nest either me or my party with the publication of such
odious and ridiculous slanders, I cannot remain in the
presence of the assembled peers without telling the noble
earl that his position as Prime Minister, as a peer of this
house, gives him no right,without a shadow of foundation,
to introduce such a subject by an insinuation that counte-
nance has been given to the slanders by the members of the
Conservative party. (Loud cheers.) Now as the insinua-
tions and statements themselves, I only wonder at the
amount of ignorance on the part of the British public,
which appears to have been so successfully practised upon.
(Hear, hear, and laughter.) I entirely concur with the
.noble earl in the confidential, the highly confidential, sta-
tion which his Royal Highness fills ; first, as the necessary
natural adviser of the sovereign, placing him in a position
no higher than the private secretary of the sovereign, but
also being bound to her Majesty by the closest and ten-
derest ties, being bound to this country as the country of
his adoption—by his being the consort of the sovereign—
by his being
the father of the future king of this
country—though long may it be before such an event
occurs—(hear, hear)—it is arguing an absolute igno-
rance of all the feelings of human nature, and all proba-
bility or possibility to suppose that, being in such a situa
tion, his royal highness can either shut his eyes or close his
ears to what is taking place—that he should not feel the
deepest interest in the foreign and domestic concerns of
this country—and that he should not, as a privy council-
lor, give to the Queen the benefit of his advice and opinion
whenever she wishes to consult him on public affairs.
(Cheers.) I must further say that the position, the most
confidential that can be filled—so confidential indeed that
it can be filled by no person less closely connected with
the Sovereign than his Royal Highness, has not only never
been abused to my knowledge, but the advice and counsel
given by his Royal Highness has been always, to the best
of my belief, given from an enlightened consideration of
what was due to the interests of the Sovereign and the
public good ; and although it was undoubtedly the fault of
any responsible Minister, if differing in opinion from his
Royal Highness, he permits himself to be overruled in the
advice which he tenders to the Crown as such responsible
Minister, it is a great advantage to any Minister having
to advise the Sovereign of this country, and having to
advise a female Sovereign on public affairs—it is, I say, a
matter of great satisfaction and advantage to the Minis-
ter that in explaining such affairs to a female Sovereign,
with which she may not he in all respects familiar, she
should have a person in her intimate confidence whose in-
terests are bound up with her own, and who on every ac-
count must have the strongest feelings of attachment to
her person and of loyalty to the Throne, and that that
person should be one able to consider the reasons given for
the advice tendered to her Majesty—(hear)—and to sug-
gest topics to her Majesty which may or may not occur to
her own mind, but which, being suggested, it is satis-
factory for any Minister to explain. But this country is
under a great mistake if it should suppose that the Sove-
reign does not exercise a real, salutary, and decided in-
fluence over 'the councils of the country. (Hear.) The
Sovereign is not the mere automaton, or puppet, of the
Government of the day ; she exercises a beneficial in-
fluence over the affairs of the State ; audit is the duty of
the minister for the time being, in submitting any propo-
sition for the assent of her Majesty, to give satisfactory
reasons that such propositions are called for by public
policy. If the Sovereign is not satisfied with the advice
tendered to her—if either from the suggestions of her own
mind, or from objections which may be suggested to her by

others, filling that high confidsutial situation to which I
have referred, her Majesty is of opinion that she will not
accept the advice of the responsible Minister of the Crown,
the course of the Crown and of the Minister is equally
open. The course of the Crown is to refuse to accept that
advice, and the consequence to the Minister is to resign. If
his Royal Highness, on any occasion, has done that which
I believe in my conscience he has never done, and as far as
my experience goes I can say he has never done—if ho has
unconstitutionally or improperly interfered in the affairs of
the State, or gone counter to the advice tendered to her
Majesty by her Minister, it would be not so much the
fault of his Royal Highness—though he would incur a
grievous resPonsibility—but it would be the fault of the
Minister, who, in the advice ho gives to his Sovereign, can
be overruled by no subject whatever, and only by the de-
cision of the Sovereign herself. And in that case he has
only one course, and that is to withdraw from the attempt
to offer advice which is not at all desirable. My Lords, I
trust you will forgive me for adverting to this matter. I
should have rejoiced to have seen the subject, notwith-
standing it has prevailed to a considerable extent among
the less instructed classes in the country, treated with that
silent contempt which it deserves, and I am happy to have
had an opportunity of agreeing with the noble earl in the
sentiments he has expressed in reference to the matter,
though I must say that we on this side of the house have
cause to complain of the manner in which it has been in-
troduced to our notice. (Hear.)

Lord CAMPBELL said in reference to a great question of
constitutional law, it might not be unbecoming in him to
express his opinion. After giving this subject a patient
3onsideration, be could have no difficulty in saying that all
that had been described as taking place between the Sovereign
and the Minister was altogether unexceptionable and most
salutary ; but he thought it was putting the matter on a
wrong footing, when it was said his Royal Highness en-
joyed his opinions in respect of his capacity of a privy
councillor. It was inevitable from the circumstance of a
female being on the throne that that communication should
take place; and their lordships must resort to the Salic
Law if they wished to prevent it. But it was not as a
privy councillor that his Royal Highness had to give coun-
sel ; but it was as the alter ego, as the consort of the Queen
of Great Britain. It was desirable that the Queen Regnant
should have the assistance of her consort ; and he (Lord
Campbell) should only further say that it seemed to him
that all those imputations on his Royal Highness were
most groundless and most calumnious ; and the best proof
of that was, that if he had given advice to her Majesty,
most salutary advice it must have been, for he (Lord
Campbell) had no difficulty in saying that the Queen was
the most constitutional Sovereign that ever reigned in this
country. (Cheers.)
The Earl of HARDWICKE said he was glad to have
heard the explanations which had been given in reference
to this painful subject. For his part, he should have been
the basest of men if he could have condescended to write
in any newspaper one word in regard to the interesting
person in question. But he (the Earl of Hardwicke) never
in his life h:, d any correspondence with a newspaper on any
subject whatever, nor had he ever had any connection with
one.. (An ironical laugh.)
The Earl of ABERDEEN said the noble earl ought to
have been the very last person to connect anybody with
the press on account of any supposed similarity of opinion.
He (the Earl of Aberdeen) had not counted the number
of days on which the different papers had indulged in
those abominable and unscrupulous imputations; but
he knew this, that in papers devoted to the noble earl
and his policy he had seen the most abominable
imputations. He said the noble earl ought not to
charge on others a connection with the press which
he himself would repudiate. (Cheers.) What had the
noble earl to complain of ? All that he (the Earl of Aber-
deen) meant to say was, that the noble earl should have
been cautious in supposing a connection with a journal in
consequence of friendly sentiments to the parties whom it
espoused, and when he said that sentiments were expressed
by a journal friendly to him (the noble earl) which he (the
noble earl) would be the first to repudiate. (Cheers.)
The Earl of DERBY—The noble earl still persists in
fixing those absurd rumours on papers connected with the
Conservative party. I tell him they have their origin and
their main propagation through papers of an extremely
Liberal character. (No, no; from the Duke of Newcastle.)
I say yes, through paper, connected with extremely Liberal
opinions, which are, perhaps, now represented by the noble
duke who now cheers so loudly. If they have been copied
into papers professing Conservative opinions, all I can say
is that when I have seen them in any of those papers it
has been with deep regret. But whether propagated by
the extreme Liberal or the Conservative press, I cannot
understand how they can be intended to damage the noble
lord and his Government, inasmuch as between them and
the Court there is no inseparable connection.
The Earl of HARROWBY said the general belief in the
horrible slanders in question was increased in consequence
of their receiving the sanction of the Conservative press.
He had expected to have seen a stop put to slanders circu-
lated by that portion of the press, at all events. He did
not suspect the noble earl (Derby) of having shared in those
things ; but he complained that some of the gentlemen
connected with that party had not come forward in a pub-
lic manlier, and as early as possible given a check to the
currency of those slanders. (Hear, hear.) When he con-
sidered the position which for thirteen years the Prince
had taken upon himself in this country, and the amiable
and exemplary way in which he had deported himself, it
was in the highest degree discreditable to the country that
they could for a moment entertain suspicions so base and
so little deserving of credence. (Cheers.)

The Earl of DERBY—I don't desire to Wend one news-
paper or another, but I do desire to repudiate the attempt
made to throw upon the Conservative press the odium of
having originated and circulated those slanders. Ido now
disclaim the doctrine put forward by my noble friend, that
it is the duty of me or any of my noble friends to watch
for any absurdity or for any mischievous paragraph which
may appear in those newspapers which he has pleased to
call " our organs." I may say that I have neither directly
nor indirectly influenced in my life a single paragraph in
a single paper, and I am not goitig now, for the first time,
to take upon me the duty either of answering calumnies
upon me in opposing papers, or of correcting paragraphs
in those professing to support me. (Cheers.) I must de•
cline to be made responsible for what may be written on
the one side or the other.

Lord MALMESBURY could not remember to have
heard in the house any speech more offensive th In that of
the noble lord (Lord Harrowby).
Lord HARROWBY explained that he had not implied
the responsibility of noble lords for what appeared in the
papers, and had not intended to give utterance to anything
that could be considered offensive.
Lord MALME3BURY could not understand the noble
lord's admitting that they were not connected with the
press, and yet calling upon them to stop what appeared
there. How could they have taken au earlier moment
than this for disavowing all belief in, or approval of, the
calumnies in circulation ? They did so on the very first
night of the meeting of Parliament. He never heard a
more offensive speech in his life.
The Address was then agreed to, and their lordships ad-
journed at 25 minutes past 12.

the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in a committee of the
whole house, would move for leave to bring in a bill to
alter the mode of proceeding in regard to certain ex-
penses now charged in the public revenue. At the same
time and on the same day the right hon. gentleman
would move for leave to bring in a bill to amend the
act of last session relating to the duties on assessed
taxes. On Friday the President of the Board of Trade
would, in a committee of the whole house, move for leave
to bring in a bill to admit foreign ships to the coasting
trade. (Hear.) And on the same day the right hon.
gentleman would also move for leave to bring in a bill
to consolidate and amend the law relating to the mer-
chant shipping. On Monday, Feb. 6, the noble lord
the member for the City of London would move a com-
mittee of the whole house on the subject of the oaths of
allegiance, supremacy, and abjuration. (Hear, hear.)
On Friday, Feb. 10, the noble lord would move for leave
to bring in a bill to consolidate and amend the law re-
lating to bribery, treating, and the exercise of
undue influence at elections for members of Par-
liament. On the same day the noble lord would
also move for leave to bring in a bill to amend
the law relating to the trial of election petitions,
and for inquiry into the exercise of corrupt practices at
elections. On the same day the President of the Poor-
law Board would move for leave to bring in a bill to
amend the law relating to the removal settlement and
chargeability of the poor in England and Wales. On
Monday, the 13th of February, the noble lord would
move for leave to bring in a bill further to amend the
law relating to the representation of the people in Eng-
land and Wales. (Cheers.) And on the same day the
-noble ford would move for leave to bring in a bill to
amend the law concerning the vacating of seats by mem-
bers of the House of Commons.
NOTICES OF MOTION.

Mr. BROTHERTON gave notice that it was his in-
tention on an early day to submit a motion to the house
to stop the progress of the business after 12 o'clock at
night. (Hear, hear.)

-Mr. LOCKE KING gave notice that on an early
day he should move for leave to bring in a bill to
amend the law of succession to real property in cases of
intestacy.

Mr. PHILLIMORE gave notice that he should take
the earliest opportunity of moving for leave to bring in
a bill providing for the appointment of a public prose-
cutor.