The Sun.
London, England, 1838-04-04 00:00:00

" The Right Hon. the Earl of Durham, G.C.8., &c. &c."

There was a letter of the 26th March, written by Lord Durham to
Lord Glenelg, which was as follows:
" Cleveland-row, March 26, 1838.

"My Lord—l have the honour to acknowledge the receipt of your
Lordship's communication of the 94th inst. Her Majesty having been
graciously pleased to entrust to me the general Government of six pro-
vinces in North America, the entire administration of the affairs of
one province during the suspension of the ordinary form of government,
and a separate commission for the adjustment cf weiihty affairs af-
fecting the permanent welfare of all her Majesty's possessions o!'
North America, I must require, for the due performance of these
important and multifarious functions, the most zealous and efficient
co-operation. I feel it due to those who leave this country on this
arduous and difficult service to ensure to them adequate and ho-
nourable remuneration. By this feeling I have been influenced in
the formation of an establishment for carrying on the government
of North America, and hare the honour of enclosing you a copy
of:my letter to Sir George Grey, of the I eth instant, in which
are included the details which your Lordship requests. I have also
to state to your Lordship that I have received from the Com-
mander of the Forces permission to avail myself of the services
of four paid Aides-de-Camp, whose assistance will be urg►ntly
required in the various personal communications which I must
necessarily to make to the Lieutenant. Governors and Commanders of
her Majesty's forces in the dlfferent provinces placed under my govern-
ment. I have wow given your Lordship all the information I can afford
rts at the present time. On my arrival in North America I may pos-
sibly find it necessary to require further executive assistance; but I can
assure your Lordship that I shall ever be guided by as strict an atten-
tion to economy as in consistent with what is, I own t• you, my primary
object, the efficiency of the public service.—l have. tee.,
(Signed) " DURHAM.

" The Right Hon. Lord Gleneig, &e. &e."
lie had no fault to fing.with this sentiment, but he felt it his duty to
bring this question before the House, inasmuch es before he set oat for
h,s command the douse should express an opinion whether the Noble
Lord should have power to incur unlimited expense, or should, like his
predecessor, Lord Goeford, have a salary, amounting in the whole to
1'2,000/. a year. He thought that the Noble Lord, In offering his
serricee gratuitously, had only done what any man anxious for the
good of his country would do, but he (the Marquis of Chandos)
was one of those who thought that when he was appointed to any duty
it was much better he should receive a regular salary, as gratuitous see.
vices often turned out the most expensive in the end.—(Cheers.) Ile
could recount many instances in which gratuitous services had turned
oat tar more expensive than a fixed salnry.—(Hear.) But hu had always
thought that in cases like the present the Administration always formed
the establishment of its officers—that they did not leave to those they
employed the formation of their own establishments, or leave undc ter.
mined the sums they intended to take. The Noble Lord apposite must
be aware that rumour spoke very largely of the extreme splendour that
was to et' end this mission—(Hear)—and he thought the Noble Lord had
a right to state the precise circumstances under which Lord Durham
went out, whether he wee to be unlimited as to expense, or to have a
salary similar to his predecessor in the Government. In the numerous
items in the Earl of Durham's statement, he (the Marquis of Chandos)
found opposite to the name of the Earl a blank. Ile had heard before
that he had offered his services gratuitously; but he was sure the Noble
Lord (J. Russell) would agree with him, that according to the proposed
scale, those services would prove more expensive than any salary.—
(Hear.) The next item was the Private Secretary, also without salary—
at least he concluded so, from the recurrence of the blank opposite his
name. No doubt he had followed the example of his principal,
and chi.
valrously tendered his services fur nothing.—(Hear, hear.) 'Vs'ho that
Secretary was he did not know; he believed it was Mr. E. Ellice, jun.
Could he pretend to say what his expenses might be ? Bet he
would also object in his case to unlimited power, and would be much
better pleased to hear what he was to get for his cervices.—(Hear, hear,
hear.) Besides him it appeared there were to be four other secretaries,
at salaries of 1,500/. a year, and also a military secretary—a most distin.
guished officer he must admit as ever trod the toil—at a salary of 7001.
There were to be two assistants at 600/. each, making altogether for
secretaries 2,800/. ; whereas those officers of the last Government cost
only I,sosl.—(Hear, hear.) Why they were to have this immense
force of secretaries he (the Marquis of Chanties) did not pretend to
know, but he must say that he never heard of a person employed on a
mission like the present whe took with him so many attaches as Lord
Durham. He then came to another important question in the retinue,
which was the legal adviser.--(Laughter.) Now he had certainly taken
great pains to search through the history of missions like the present,
and In not one did he find any trace of an appendage like the legal ad-
viser of Lord Durham.—(Cheers.) It appeared particularly strange,
when they recollected that there were such persons as an Attorney and
Selicitor.General in Canada, for whose serviced the country Paid 1001. a
year, and here was a legal adviser with I,6ool.—(Hear,
hear)—salary,
for what purpose was if course best known to those who appointed him.
He saould like to know who that person was. The House should know
his name, as he would no doubt cast a slur on the present law
officers whom he was going out to supersede.—(Much cheering )
Then, besides all these secretaries, and the legal adviser, there were to
be four paid Aides-de-Camp. When he heard of those appendages of
the High Commissioner—when he found by the Noble Earl's letter
that he intended to have them riding fast over the country—he made
investigation as to the number of Aides.de-Camp required by the various
illustrious men who had been employed by this country. First there
was the Duke of Wellington.—(Hear, hear.) When he was Field
Marshal in 1815, he had six Aides-de-Camp; but when he had the
command of the whole allied army he had only four—(Hear, hear)—
and he (the Marquis of Chandos) would put it to the House whether
there was any similarity in the cases of the Earl of Durham and the
Duke of Wellington ?—(Cheering.) Some Members mentioned that
the Duke had some extras. He (the Marquis of Chandos) dared say
he had, but in this case there were extras also, and the Duke never
took an extra without permission from the Horse Guards. He thought
a similar rule should have been observed in this case.—(Hear.) But
es
what was all this state for ?—(Cheers.) Was the Noble Lord going
to a great country where splendour was required, and where riches
wuld
t
stand
should a bl et h displayedpo m pH
—?lf
pomp.—(Hear,)
o.), h
Bute(th no,
o M,
thearqu NobleiofChandos)
Earl as co
going . under.a
country which bordered on one in which splendour was un-
known, and he thought the Noble Earl would be much mere
likely to conciliate the Canadians by a quiet demeanour and good
Government than by all the splendid matters he was taking with him in
the Hastings.—(Cheers,) Did the Noble Lord suppose that after the
discontent which had prevailed in that country he could by carrying
from this country splendid uniforms, and a great body of attaches and
other magnificent appendages, succeed to any extent in calming the ex_
sited feelings of the people? No, he could not, and he (Lord Chandos)
thought that the Gallant Officer who now commanded in Canada would
be just as able to conciliate as a Commissioner with all the splendour of
Lard Durham.—(Cheers.) What was wanted in Canada was firmness
and conciliation, not display, as in a country so poor as Canada splendour
would not produce a favourable effect.--(Hear,
hear.) He certainly
felt much surprised that no Hon. Member on the opposite side of the
House had felt it his duty to allude to this questson, because he knew
there were so many opposite who usually took an anxious interest in
financial affairs, particularly when they eat on his side of the House.—
(Cheers.) He confessed he would have been better pleased if some one
better qualified had undertaken to bring the matter before the country,
but as all the gentlemen on the opposite side had treated the question
with silence and indifference, he considered it his duty to bring it
befere the House, and to take the sense of the House upon it. He
considered that this partook very much of the nature of a job.—
(Loud cheers.) Possibly the Noble Earl was a person of whom some of
his friends were jealous ; perhaps he was rather an inconvenient friend
of the present Government—.(Cheers)—and that this distinguished situa-
tion was given to him with a view of removing him to a distant point,
where he could not annoy or inconvenience his friends, and where he
might innocently display his talents—for no one denied to the Noble
Earl full merit for his talents—his wealth, and his respectability as an
excellent country gentleman.—(Hear.) But he wished to know from
the Noble Lord opposite whether there was to be no limit to all this ex-
penditure ?—(Hear, hear.) Was there no sum fixed for outfit ? Why,
he could not turn round without hearing of the magnificent plate—the
splendid furniture—the numerous servants that were to accompany the
High Commissioner to Canada.—(Hear.) Was the Noble Earl then to
have for outfit 3,0001., like the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, or was he not
to be at all tied down, but to have unlimited power over the Treasury of
the country ? If so, he (the Marquis of Chandos) objected its tote to the
scheme, as one not likely to be of the slightest benefit to the country.
The Noble Earl must recollect that in the year 1817 (when Mr. Lamb-
ton) he made a severe attack on Mr, Canning for a matter of this kind

(Hear, hear.) And that expenses were very carefully considered and
objected to by him at that time he (the Marquis of Chandos) thought
he could not better prove than by reading an extract from the speech
then made by the Noble Earl.—(Hear, hear.) On the 6th of May,
1817, his Lordship, at the close of long speech, said, " Under all these
circumstances he called upon the House to come to a decision on this
case." He would now put to a te►t the sincerity of their professions
by demanding from them a vigilant watchfulness over the extravagant
conduct of the Minister. He showed them a ease in which the public
money was squandered, and no anxiety shown to give satisfaction to
the country, while every document proved most clearly that in no in-
stance was confidence so much abused. He would take the sense of
the House upon the question, and show the people who were the men
who were willing to protect them from the extravagance of the Minis.
tern. "—(Hear, hear.) Was not this sufficient to induce the House to
support him in these resolutions ?—(Hear, hear.) Lord Gosford's in.
come was certainly the proper precedent by which to fix that of the
Earl of Durham. He held the same rank, went to the same country,
and as far as he (the Marquis of Chandos) knew, exercised the same
power. There was one difference to be sure—in the title. The Earl
of Durham was the High Commissioner, while Lord Gosford was only
Commissioner; but he did not think the difference was sufficient to per-
mit the former having unlimited controul over the public money.—
(Hear, hear.) Without troubling the House farther he would conclude
by proposing the resolution of which he given notice.
Mr. PRAED, in seconding the motion, would not detain the House
by any lengthened observations. He thought the House was certainly
bound not to deny the means for ferrying this mission into effect, but
they were bound to withhold the means of employing a single Aide-de-
Camp too much.--(Hear, hear.) They were sending a mission to a
colony which was peeuliarly jealous of expense, and whose suspicions
and prejudices on that score formed the principal difficulty in the way of
adjustment. They had frequently expressed their suspicion that the
country would not legislate for the colony en the subject of expense, ac-
cording to a proper scale, and Dr. Milson, when examined, stated
that " Englishmen were so accustomed to expense in their own cowl.
try, that they were the worst persons to regulate colonial expendi-
ture." Lord Durham should take care, therefore, not to frighten
them.--(Hear, hear.) He (sir. Praed) though the letter which had
been laid on the table extremely unsatisfactory—the more so, from
the circumstance that the nature of the Noble Earl's duty was ex.
treraely undefined, and that it was therefore the more important
that the expenditure should be accurately described.—(Hear, hear.)
In answer to a question of the House of Commons as to the expenses,
his Lordship wrote—and he (Mr. Freed) was not to blame in calling the
letter unsatisfactory, as it had not satisfied Lord Glenelg—a most extra.
ordinary letter, in which he says, that, " being intrusted with a sepa-
rate Commission for the adjustment of weighty affairs," he had thought
the Noble Earl was to have no legislative power, but his Lordship stated
that he " was entrusted with weighty affairs, and required the most
zealous co.operation ;" but it appeared it was too much to ask his Lord-
ship anything about the sum he would require. In answer to that clues.
tion he treated them to a few metaphors.
With tropes and metaphors his Lordship comes,

Statements for figures, synonymes for sums.
(Cheers.) His Lordship also stated that he would require four paid
Aides-de-Camp. Were these to be for the purpose of carrying impor-
tant communications, or were they merely to swell the pomp and splen.
dour of the Governor ? His Lordship then proceeded to say that he
had now given alt the information he could afford, and, considering that
all that information had been given fourteen days before, and considered
unsatisfactory, it was rather curious that his Lordship should say at
this time it was all he could afford. His Lordship said on his arrival
in America he would afford—what ? further information ? No
such thing, be might, perhaps, require further executive assist-
ance.—(Hear, hear, hear, and loud laughter.) Then there
was the legal adviser, who was to supersede the Attorney and Solicitor-
General—the House certainly required some explanation on that sub.
ject. Now, he asked, with his Noble Friend, what were they to get by
this mission ? He looked at it with the greatest suspicion, because he
did not anticipate any great benefits from it. He would not say any
thing as to the personal fitness of the Noble Earl—that would be trench.
Ing on the prerogative of the Crown; but he thought all this parade—
these four paid and four unpaid Aides-de-Camp—were, particularly as
the rebellion was put down, extremely useless on a mission, the end of
which was merely to carry into effect a Commission of inquiry—to add
to our already immense mass of Canadian information.—(Hear.) He
expected nothing from this inquiry, but another great blue: book like
the last.—(Cheers.) He hoped that the House, for a totally useless ob-
ject, would not subject the country to the expense of this mission.
The SPEAKER having put the question,
Lord J. RUSSELL said he must first state that the Noble Lord had
borrowed a very bad practice, namely, that of bringing forward a motion
of considerable importance without having previously informed the
House of its object.—(Hear.) The Noble Lord must be aware that the
Earl of Durham was charged with a most important duty ; that he
would go out in a most responsible situation; and that the Govern-
ment that appointed him were responsible for his appointment; yet the
Noble Lord had thought proper to bring forward a motion inculpating
the Earl of Durham, without giving the slightest notice of what his
motion was to be, or saying any thing more than that he intended to
call the attention of the House to the subject in the ordinary way. If it
had been made in the ordinary way no one could object to it —(Hear,
hear)—but if a contrary practice was introduced—if a motion of cen.
sure were to be introduced without the slightest netice—he could not
say that in his opinion such would be a useful practice.—(Hear, hear,
hear.) With respect to the motion itself, he must say that he
thought it one of a very paltry eliaracter.—(Ministerial cheers.)
The Honourable Gentleman who seconded the motion seemed to
know nothing whatever either of the state of Canada or of the mea.
surest which had been taken for the remedy of Canadian grievances.
Canada being disturbed by insurrection, and likewise agitated by dis.
cordance amongst the different bodies composing the Local Legislature,
the House of Commons had thought proper to suspend the functions of
that Legislature, with a view of making further arrangements for the
est,:blishment of a harmonious Government. It was then proposed to
entrust in the meanwhile the Government to an individual, whose
talents the Noble Lord opposite did not attempt to deny, nor had a
single word been said by any Hon. Member to show that the person
selected by Government was incompetentto his important duty, and who
had undertaken that duly from no other motive hut zeal for the inter-
ests of his country.—(hear, hear.) Well, then, the only attack that
could be made was en the score of some expense which was alleged to
be unjustifiable. This was a mere attempt to cramp the functions and
exertions of the Governor-General—(No, no, and cheers)—made be-
cause all former attacks on the principle of his mission had entirely
failed.—(Laughter.) It aimed, at small matters ; its object was to raise
and stimulate unfounded prejudices, to injure and thwart the objects of
the mission.—(Hear.) The Noble Lord had proposed that the Earl of
Durham's expenses should be exactly proportioned by those of Lord Gos_

ford, who had a fixed salary for his services. Now when Lord Gosford
was sent as Commissioner he had no fixed salary.—(Hear.) On the
contrary, he got an order for such expenses as were ccnsistent with
economy and the necessities of the ease. And in that order the ex-
penses of the other Commissioners were not included. But Lord Dur-
ham, bes'des the functions entrusted to Lord Gosford, had many addi.
tional and important duties, as ho would have, together with the
Council of which he was the chief, to frame provisionary laws for the
government of Canada until the Imperial Legislature should have re-
modelled the Constitution. Let it be recollected that the local Legis.
lature did exist during the time Lord Gosford was in Canada; and the
Noble Lord opposite was possibly not aware that the machinery of that
Legislature entailed considerable expense on the colony. He was pos.
sibly unaware that the sums paid to the Speaker and Members of the
House of Assembly during the time the Constitution wag in
force had now ceased. Perhaps the Noble Lord meant to con-
tend that the whole expense of this mission was to fall on the
mother country, and totally omitted in his calculation that the re-
venues which were formerly consumed by the Legislature would be
now available to the objects of the Earl of Durham's mission to
Canada. The Noble Lord had said that many rumours prevailed
with respect to the great expenses of this mission.—(Hear, hear.)
As to the particular number of servants or grooms which the Earl of
Durham might take with him, he (Lord J. Russell) was not informed;
but he was fully aware that the most unfounded rumours were spread,
for the purpose of injuring his reputation.—(Hear, hear.) One rumour
referred to a magnificent service of plate, said to form part of his outfit.
The origin of this was that his Lordship had sent his own plate to a
jeweller to have it valued, for the purpose of effecting an insurance on
it previous to the ♦oyage.—(Laughter.) This was one rumour, which
the Noble Lord very naturally believed. Allusion had also been made
to the Aides.de.Camp. Why it bad been thought fit on this occasion, he
would not say whether it was right or wrong; but the decision the
Government had corns to was, that as the Ran of Durham was going
out on this extraordinary mission, and as the state of Canada was
so critical---for it was only the ignorance of the Honourable Mem-
ber who seconded the motion which could have induced him to assert
that all danger was at an end—(Laughter)—it would be proper and
consistent that his Lordship should go out with fuller powers and
retinue than those of an ordinary Commissioner. The Lord Lieute-
nant of Ireland had four paid Aides-de-camp, but the Noble Lord had
compared the number if Aides-de-camp attached to Lord Durham with
those of the Duke of Wellington. Now this could only be done to ex-
cite prejudice; for whatever the personal character of a Lord Lieute-
nant or a High Commissioner might be, it would be unfair to say that
because he had net the talents of the Duke of Wellington, he was not
to have the customary retinue of a Lord Lieutenant.—(Hear.) The
number of Aides had depended merely on the situation. He did think
it necessary when the Earl of Durham should have confidential com-
munication with other Governors, or with our Minister at Washington,
that it was better to entrust those to Aides-de-camp than to send them
by post or by a common messenger. Another point disputed was the
appointment of a legal adviser; but there were many occasions on
which the Earl of Durham, in considering whether he should bring
forward any propositions or propose any laws before the Special Council,
of which he was the head, would require the professional assistance of
a legal adviser, and he (Lord J. Russell) lid think that it was
hardly to be expected that measures of importance would be pre-
posed without the advice of a person competent to that duty.—(Hear.)
Allusion had been made to the Attorney and Solicitor-General for Ca-
nada, but in his opinion questions of this nature had always better be
left to the discretion of the Government for the time being. It had been
said that Government endeavoured to make an impression on the
colonies by a show of magnificence, but it was admitted at the same
time that the nobleman who was about to be sent out was not of that
character as to rely solely upon display to procure him influence. His
talent, kis energy of character, his general acquirements, and his ac-
quaintance with the constitutional history of the country, were ou all
hands admitted, and there was not another man in the whole country
more fit for the station to which he was appointed. Allusion had been
made to a former motion male by Lord Durham against pro.
digsl expenditure, on the occasion of Mr. Canning's mission
to Portugal, but that mission was one which, however high-sound-
ing its title, was one in►olving no real business, and even
the eloquent and splendid speech of Mr. Canning did not do away with
the obvious objections which were made to it,—(Hear, hear.) There
was a real and well-founded objection to the mission of Mr. Canning ;
namely, that the whole of the expense then incurred was utterly un-
necessary. No one ever denied—the members if the present Adminis-
tration never denied when in opposition—that where an important
charge was undertaken, and arduous duties were to be performed, the
degree of compensation should be, in some measure, undefined and left
to the circumstances of the case. A proof of this was to be found in the
speech of Lord Durham which had been referred to. That Noble Lord
had made every allowance in favour of one who had in character of
Ambassador held, as it were, the reins of the Portuguese Government,
and performed high official duties ; but he at the same time ob-
jected to the incurring of a heavy expense in a case which was
little more than honorary and nominal. When high and im.
portant duties were to be performed large expenses must of
necessity be incurred.—(Hear, hear, hear.) There were instances
of special missions which sufficiently demonstrated what was the prae.
tice of the country on such occasions. A differenoe of opinion might
exist as to whether or not it would be desirable to abolish the practice.
He, however, was not in favour of such abolition. He thought that
for ordinary services ordinary allowances should be made ; but on spe-
cial occasions it would be impossible to lay down the exact items of ex-
pense. Let the House see the expense attendant on come of those spe-
cial missions. Mr. Hookham Frere was sent out special to Spain in
September, 1803. He remained one year, and the expense was 12,3071.
The Hon. John Villiera was sent to Portugal in September, 1808, and
remained until February, 1810, the expenses allowed were 17,5001,
Lord Aberdeen was sent to Vienna in August, 1813, and remained un-
til the same period in 1814, the expense being 15,220/. Lord Clan.
carty had been sent to the Ilague. to Vienna, to Frankfort, and to Paris,
from November, 1813, to May, 1813, and the expense was 29,0001.
Lord Castlereagh had been sent to Frankfort in June, 1614, where he
remained one year, at an expense of 11,0001.; after that he went to Vienna
in 1815, which mission was attended with a new and necessary expense
of 21,5961. After that he was at Paris from 1815 to 1816, at a cost
of 13,3001. He was at Aix.la.Chappelle in 1818 from August to De-
cember, and the expense was 7,9451. In 1825 Sir C. Stuart went out
to Lisbon and to Rio Janeiro at an expense of 24,6471. for a year and
a half. Why was it that some of these missions were so expensive ?
Because by some of them the affairs of all Europe were to be adjusted.

—(Cheers from the Opposition.) The objection of Lord Durham to
the expenses of Mr. Canning's mission to Lisbon was, that there was
was no important business to be adjusted. Now, with respect to the
Canadian mission, no such objection had been taken. No one had de-
nied the importance of the duties to be performed, yet it was attempted
to nibble at the expenses of the secretaries and servants, and palm the
motion before the House upon the country as one of a popular charac-
ter, and intended for the curtailment of unnecessary expenditure.—(Mi.
nisterial cheers.) He had made the quotation with respect to former
missions, to show that Lord Durham was not the first person who had
been sent out for a special purpose, as had been insinuated, without limits
being set to the expenses, and that some latitude had always been al.
lowed in this respect to every Government when it sent persons out for
the performance of important duties, With respect to Lord Durham's
fitness for the appointment, evan the Noble Marquis who had brought
forward the motion did not undertake to impugn it. The state of
Canada was at present a most critical one, and much was dependent on
the character of the person who was entrusted with its charge. It was
a fault in the policy of this country not to render the station of colonial
Governors higher, so as to induce persons of first-rate character and
talent to undertake the trust. No one could overrate the duties which
the present state of Canada required, and he would put it to the House,
if they wished to see those duties well performed, not to cramp the
energies nor shackle the efforts of the person to whom those duties
were entrusted by an agreement to the motion. If, as was already
the case, the House expressed itself satisfied that the mission should
take place, it ought not to agree to a paltry motion of the kind—a mo-
tion which, in a hesitating and ambiguous manner, went to express a
want of confidence in the Government which was not atteml•trd to be
done nn the proper occasion, when the question was fairly and honestly
before the House.—( Ministerial cheers.)
. . .

Captain WOOD, who was indistinctly heard, owing to the noise in
the body of the House, said that the rule laid down by the Noble Lord
had not been followed with respect to a Noble relative of his.— (Hear,
hear.) That Nobleman had been appointed under the Administration
of the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth to the Court of
Russia, and what was the course pursued by Hen. Gentlemen opposite ?
They searched through the speeches of his Noble Relative for the pur-
pose of finding out a hasty expression upon which to fix a charge.
Upon this expression a motion was made for an Address to the Crown
against the appointment. Now, if the speeches of the Earl of Durham
were searched in the same manner similar grounds of objection might
easily be found; yet he was the only man wham Ministers could find as
the fit and proper person to be sent out to preside over a discontented
and divided colony.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. JAMES defended the appointment of Lord Durham, and thought
no better selection could be made by Ministers.

Colonel SIBTHORP thanked the Noble Marquis for bi inging forward
the motion, as it was calculated to show in its proper light that the
thing was neither more nor less than a Government job.

Mr. E. ELLICE, jun., said that the motion was brought forward
fl'om a spirit of political enmity and of hostility to the principles upon
which Lord Durham went out. It was made in the spirit of a morning
paper which gave its ominous point of X. s. d. With respect to himself,
when he was first appointed Secretary to Lord Durham, a salary had
been procosed to him; he refused to go upon such a condition, and
stated that he would feel amply remunerated in witnessing the happy re-
sults which were likely to take place, for he felt a deep interest in all
that related to the colony.

Sir E. SUGDEN, when he saw legal advisers appointed, took it for
granted that there was some change about to take place. Either there
must be an intention to frame a new constitution, or these persons were
taken out to provide for some permanent measure. To either of these
proceedings he entertained a decided objection.
Mr. HUME saw no reason to suppose that the expense of Lord Dur-
ham's mission would be grester than that of Lord Gesford's. The
Hon. and Gallant Gentleman who had succeeded him (Mr. Hume) for
Middlesex had appeared very sore at the conduct pursued towards his
Noble Relative (Lord Londonderry), but why did he not turn upon the
Noble Lord near him for the part he had taken on that occasion P
Lord STANLEY—I did not speak until the motion was withdrawn.
Mr. HUME thought the whole debate showed great bitterness of
spirit.
Mr. LAMBTON had not intended to take a share in the discussion;
but there was one expression which had fallen from the Hon. and Gal-
lant Member opposite, who called the subject of the mission to Canada a
job, to which he (Mr. Lambten) should consider it his duty to advert.
Now, if the Hon. Member meant that his Noble Relative had in the
slightest degree participated in anything like a job, or which had that
character, knowing his Noble Relative's feelings en such matters so
well as he did, he felt bound to say that a greater untruth had never
fallen from any man.—(Cries of " Order," and " Chair.")
The SPEAKER called the Hon. Member to order, and pointed out
to him that the expression he had used was unparliamentary.
Mr. LAMBTON bowed to the decision of the Chair; but he would
say that a greater mistake—a greater misrepresentation—had never been
made by any Hon. Member. He (Mr. Lambten) should not have risen
to take any part in the debate but for the one observation to which he
had already alluded. He deemed it personally offensive to his Noble
Relative, as well as grossly unjust, for his Noble Relative had accepted
the situation in question to his (Mr. Lambton's) own knowledge at a
great self.sacriflce.
Lord J. RUSSELL, as regarded the first resolution, should move the
previous question.
Sir R. PEEL then said—l have heard such extraordinary comments
made in the course of this debate on the motives supposed to influence
my Noble Friend near me in bringing forward this motion, and on a de-
mand of the House of Commons of the Government for information on
the subject of public expenditure—(Cheers)—that I feel it absolutely ne-
cessary to rise in my place in this House, for the purpose of protesting
against establishing such a course of proceeding as aprecedent.—(Hear.)
I never heard any observations made of which Lord Durham had a just
right to complain. Indeed, no party question had been ever treated with
greater fairness by the political opponents of Lard Durham. He was
considered as totally apart from the jurisdiction of the House of Com-
mons. But I must contend for the absolute right of the House of Corn.
mom to bring forward any question respecting the public expenditure,
and the Noble Lord opposite does not discharge his duty to the country
as a Minister of the Crown, when he imputes to my Noble Friend mo-
tives for the question he has put on this subject, and characterises his
motion as a " paltry" one. In consistence with my course on the whole
of ,e Canada question, I do not mean to inquire now into the personal
or political qualification of Lord Durham for the office to which he has
been appointed ; but I do maintain that I have a perfect and unques-
tionable right, as a Member of this House, to inquire into the expense of
the establishment of Lord Durham in the performative of the duties of that
office, and to take care it shall not exceed just and reasonable bounds.—
(Cheers.) But even if it did exceed them, I would still find no fault with
Lord Durham for it. The fault would not be with him, but with her
Majesty's Government, who allowed it. And here I may say that the
correspondence between that Noble Lord and Lord Glenelg is one of the
most extraordinary I have ever read.—(Cheers.) Indeed the first letter
of Lord Glenelg is absolutely without precedent in the annals of official
correspondence, as addressed by a Minster of the Crown to a public offi-
cer. Now, has such a letter as this ever been seen before
" Downing.street, 24th March, 1838.

"My Lord—l hare the honour to inform you that a desire has been
expressed by a Member of the House of Commons in his place that a
statement of your Lordship's establishment as Governor-General of the
British North American provinces and her Majesty's High Commi,sioner
for the adjustment of certain affairs in Canada should be laid before the
House. Lord John Russell, on the part of her Majesty's Government,
having assented to this request, I shall be obliged if your Lordship
will furnish me with a Statement of your establishment for this purpose.
" I have, &c.,
(Signed)

" GLENELG.

" The Right Hon. the Earl of Durham, G.C.8., &C. Sa."
Now, if the terms of a letter are to be consulted for the meaning
deemed to be conveyed by the writer, there never was a clearer
proof than this letter affords that the Earl of Durham was to be the
sole judge of his own expenditure, as well as the sole administrator of
it.—(Cheers.) The best judge is the Treasury, whose duty it is at all
times to guard the public purse, and to keep within proper limits the ex-
penses likely to be incurred by uncontrolled power on the part of thosein
high situations. The course that bas been pursued by it is, however,
quite of a contrary nature. But admitting even that the natural de-
sire of the Noble Lord to make his establishment as effective as possible,
and to provide amply for all connected with it, were repressed by the
Treasury, I still feel bound to say that a due economy has not dictated
the proceedings of Government in this respeot, and that the establish-
ment is much larger than the public service requires.— (Cheers.) There
are first a chief secretary with I,eool. a year, then a military secretary
with 700/., then two hundred other secretaries.—(Laughter.) He
begged pardon, he meant two secretaries with 300/. a year each ; though
perhaps, after all, it was only a forecast of what might in the event be
the true number.—(Laughter.) Then there was the private secretary
and the legal adviser. Now, if I are asked whether this establishment
exceeds the necessity of the case, I hesitate not to say it does. There
is the legal adviser, for instance. The Noble Lord opposite (Lord J.
Russell) has said that he is not aware who is to fill the office. I am
sorry for the ignorance of the Noble Lord. In that he is like
the phmnix, the last of his species, alone—for he is the only man
in this House who does not know it.—(Renewed laughter.) And
as the Noble Lord is in such a deplorable state of darkness on the
subject, I, a member of her Majesty's Opposition, will undertake to in-
form him and the Hight Hon. Gentleman beside him, on the part of
that Opposition, who is to be the happy man that will fill the post of
legal adviser to the mission.—(Great laughter, and cries •f " Name.")
Well, then, the Hon. Member for Liskeard, who calls on me to name
is the parson alluded to. When he said to me, " I shall be away from
this House when the Controverted Election Bill comes en next for dis-
cussion," he gave me distinctly to understand that his face would be
shortly directed towards the western possessions of her Majesty—and
this declaration, coupled with the prevailing rumours on the subject,
was tantamount in my mind to-a certainty.—(Laughter.) He goes out
without gratuity, too, I presume. But this is beside the subject, for the
House has nothing to do with the nature of the establishment only with
its expense. I shall rejoice that the Honourable and Learned
Gentleman is not the legal adviser—but if he is, then I do
think that if these new appointments be too freely given
to Members of Parliament, there will be a manifest invasion
of the statute of Queen Anne, which provides that such offices are in-
consistent with the tenure of a seat in that House.—(hear, hear.)
Now, what is the motion et my Noble Friend P It is that the establish.
ment of Lord Gosford should serve as a precedent by which to regulate
the establishment of Lord Durham. Is there anything unreasonable in
that ?—(Cheers.) What is there paltry in it (Cheers.) The Hon.
Member for Kilkenny said that the establishment of Lord Geaford was
too large—that the expense of its maintenance was too great—and that
it required to be very much reduced. Why does the Hon. Member let
the establishment of Lord Durham pass, not alone without censure, but
with his support and approbation? The Hon. Gentleman said that this
was the first time he had ever heard of economy on this side of the House.
Now, I am not in the habit of indulging much in panegyric of any party,
still less of that with which I happen to be in connection; but I can
show that when we of this aide of the House were in office as a Govern.
ment our actions proved that this attack is altogether unfounded. It
was part of ray office on that occasion to advise with the Earl of Aber.
deen, then at the head of the Colonial Department, on the choice of tin
individual to perform certain duties in Canada. Well, what did we do
in the first instance? We selected in the first instance, a nobleman at
rank and station in the country to fill the office. We selected Lord Am-
herst, a nobleman of the rank of Earl—a nobleman known to the coun.
try—a nobleman who had held high rank and station before—a noble.
man who had filled no obscure office, but who had been accustomed
to the first; a nobleman who, as far as experience was concerned, had
been accustomed to the gorgeous and unlimited establishments of our
eastern possessions, and who, as far as remuneration was in question, had
received the salary of Governor-General of India. This done, the
next topic of consequence that we turned our attention to was the
duties which devolved on him in the execution of this office. Lord
Amherst was appointed then Governor-General of the Canadas, and de-
clared also his Majesty's High Contmissioeer. These titles are analo-
gous to these of Lord Durham, and here the analogy begins. I do not
mean to say that they were likely to be so onerous as those of Lord
Durham; on that head, indeed, I stn willing to make every fair al.
lowance ; but what I de contend for is that the offices of both are aux.
legous ; and that, as a consequence, whatever establishment answered
for the one is sufficiently ample for the other. Now what was the na-
ture of Lord Amherst's establishment ? I shall state it to the
House, and then call on the Hon. Gentleman who made so unnecessary
an attack on the Conservative Government to compare the two to-
gether—that of Lord Amherst and that of Lord Durham—and then
say conscientiously which Government, the Conservative or that which
he supports, gave the strongest practical proof of economy. What was
Lord Amherst's establishment ? He had Mr. Elliot, a single person
alone, as a Secretary, to which was added, at the request of Mr. Elliot
himself, a clerk, and he had a private Secretary for himself. That is, a
public Secretary, a private Secretary, and a Clerk. This was his estab
lishment. And now for his expenses. I believe I am quite right in
saying that the expense of his outfit did not exceed 1,0001.—(Loud
cheers.) I believe that all the arrangements for the mission were com-
pleted within that sum, and that Lord Amherst was on the point of
sailing, and yet the total charge of voyage and equipment was not more
than 1,0001. I protest, therefore, against the doctrine advanced by

the Noble Lord opposite, and echoed by his supporters, that, because
we question the expense of public establishments, you have a right to
answer us, because you choose to allege that our motives for quesliening
you on the subject are political or personal hostility, or perhaps a fa'eling
of disappointment.—(Cheers.) That charge, as against us, is totally Pn,-
founded—(Cheers)—but this charge I prefer against you—you me
vocatee of public economy—you watchful guardians of the public money
in any other hands but your own—that when an Individual connected
with you by politics or party feeling is appointed to a public situations
you then show a strong tendency to forget the principle which on all
other occasions you are so prone to promulgate.—(Cheers.) The poll.
tieat accordance of the man obliterates from your mind those principles
which you profess to have always entertained, and you sanction as a
Government that which you uniformly condemned as an Opposition.--
(Cheers.) Then you call the questions we put to you on the subject
paltry," and stigmatize our motives in putting them as " mean and
malignant."—(Cheers.) With good reason may it be said of you,
that
you are not only succeeded by others in your seats in this House, but
the time is come when you may be also succeeded by them in the ad.
vocacy of the very principles you have so unaccountably deserted."—
(Great cheering.)
Mr. C. BULLER did not mean for a moment to deny that the no-
ble Lord appointed to the Canadian mission had been pleased to Ask p.un
in too flattering terms to perform some part of the subordinate dutie.s
of the mission; neither did he mean to deny that he had at once ac-
cepted the office, and he was going with the Noble Earl to Canada But
the Right Honourable Baronet was not right in the deductions he had
made scorn the conversation alluded to as having passed between theta.
He (Mr. C. Buller) did) not mean to deceive the Right Honourable
Baronet; but he thought that Right Honourable Gentleman should
take a little more care that his imagination slid not lead him too often
into such extraordinary conclusions. It was rather too large an infe-
rence for the Right Honourable Baronet to make that he (Mr. Buller)
was the legal adviser of the mission, when up to twelve o'clock that day
it had not been derided on who was to fill that office. All he
(Mr. Buller) could say was, that he had not been nominated to it. With
respect to the supposition thatithe Earl of Durham's expenses should be
limited to the sum which had been granted to Lord Gosford, it was
quite erroneous. It was supposed that all Lord Gosford's expen-
diture had been included in the sum stated stated in the return:
but the fact was that two of the Commissioners, with salaries of 2,0001.
a year each, had been, by his desire, left out.—(Hear, hear.) The en-
tire sum would, including these, amount to 8,000/. a year. The cases
were not at all parallel, for their authorities were totally different. Lord
Gosford was Gevernor-General of the Canadac, the Earl of Durham has
been appointed Governor-General of all the colonies, with jurisdiction
much greater than ever had been given before, and with powers of ge-
•ernment almost despotic ; whereas Lord Gosford did little more than
govern the Assembly.
Sir STRATFORD CANNING said, it seemed not a little strange
that at the end of twenty-four years the friends of Lord Durham should
be anxious to establish for him a power which he had been the first to
question the propriety of in the case of another.
Lord PALMERSTON sand that Lord Amherst went out, as Lord
Durham was empowered, to charge whatever sum he might find
necessary—but there the parallel ceased. Another Governor was
already established in C.nada in Lord Amherst's time, with five thou-
sand pounds a year, and additional salaries to other offieers. Both
Noble Lords had their secretaries, but there was no separate al.
lowanee for outfit on a special mission. The difference of Lord Am-
herst's and the Earl of Durham's private circumstances had been alluded
to; but the great difference proper for their consideration lay in the
political circumstances of the case, and this was so great that they fully
justified the House in allowing the Earl of Durham a legal adviser.
Besides, Lord Amherst only went as Commissioner to settle some trivial
disputes in Lower Canada; not with power to make or alter laws c'v
Constitutions as the Earl of Durham did. He thought the Noble Mar-
quis might as well have given the Whip notice of this attempt, for
they had gained nothing by their motion.
Captain WOOD explained. He had not intended to impute persons'
motives to any one.

The Marquis of CHANDOS replied.
The previons question was then put. On the first reso:ution the'
House divided, and the numbers were—

For the resolution 133
For the previous question
Majority against the resolution
The other resolutions were then put from the Chair, and the previoUs
question having been moved on each were severally negatived withou.
a division.

EVESHAM ELECTION PETITION.
The minutes of evidence taken upon the Evesham Election Pedtie3
were ordered to be laid on the table of the House.
The Haileybury College Bill was read a third time. se
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the 1-°u
adjourned at Half-past Twe o'Clock.