The Sun.
London, England, 1853-05-11 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, MAY 11, 1853.

had good grounds for action. They did it from no wish
to annoy Roman Catholics, but from a sense of duty which
they owed to those who were helpless without their assist-
ance, and because they were determined to have the Con-
stitution of England extended to nuns and every ne else.
Lord J. RUSSELL said,—l greatly regret that this
question has been brought before the house. (Hear, hear.)
A bill on this same subject was introduced about two years

ago, or more, I think, and the house, having then consi-
dered the subject, thought proper to 'reject the bill. It

appears to me that there ought to be very strong grounds
indeed for introducing a new bill on the same subject—
(hear, hear)—for, in the first place, we must consider that

this is a country in which we boast of ouraiersonal liberty
—in which we believe that we have provisions by law by
which that personal liberty is secured—and secured, not
only against the Government, not only against those who by
means of authority would attempt to confine persons illegally,
but secured against those who by any means of force would
detain a British subject against his will. Well, then, the
question is whether there is a certain class of persons with
respect to whom we should say that these securities of per-
sonal liberty are not sufficient—that the law of habeas
corpus and the other acts which have been passed in order
to make that law effectual are totally inadequate, and that
in such cases we ought to have separate legislation for their
speoial benefit. I own I should be sorry to come to that
conclusion, because I cannot but, think that if such is the
case our laws must be generally insufficient, and that we
should be obliged to provide, not only for such cases as
those which have been referred to, but, in other respects,
greater securities for personal liberty than we at present
enjoy. We should be obliged to admit that our 13oasted
laws, upon which depends the liberty of the British subject,
are insufficient for the purpose for which they were framed.
(Hear.) Well, then, let us see the special case which the
hon. gentleman has made out for the introduction of his.
bill. We are told that there are certain ladies of the

Roman Catholic persuasion who have taken vows upon
them, and who live in communities in certain private houses
both in Great Britain and Ireland. It is confessed that
there are no special laws in order to enforce their residence
there ; that there is no special protection given to the rules
and canons of the Roman Catholic Church with regard to
those establishments. Many of these ladies I believe
have entered these houses from a spirit of sincere and deep
devotion. They pass their lives in devout contemplation,
soothing to them, and in performing what they believe to
be their duty to God—if not in a way which we think
wisely chosen, yet with great purity of intention, and with
a spirit which no man ought to speak of without respect.
And let me here say that it is more natural to females than
to our sex to entertain deep feelings of devotion, and to
believe that by retirement and contemplation, by prayer
and self-denial, they are doing what is grateful to the Al-
i mighty. There are others of those ladies who devote them-
selves to more active duties, and if we respect the pious
intentions of the one class, we cannot but regard with ap-
probation the practical services performed to the human
race by the other. I mean those ladies, ene part of whom
devote themselves to the work of education, as has been
stated by the hon., member for Cork, who preside over large
institutions of young girls, and who take care to teach them
not only their religious duties, but to instruct them in use-
ful arts, by which they become valuable members of society.

I say that ladies who devote themselves to such a task can.
not but deserve approbation, and I should be sorry to think
that there were any members of this house who would net
express approbation of such conduct. (Hear.) There are
other ladies who take vows, perhaps of a special nature, and
who devote themselves to the most painful and sometimes
to the most disgusting duties of attendance upon the sick,
who watch night and day for the purpose of alleviating the
pains of disease. Well, such being the case, lam asked, not
whether I approve of these institutions, because upon that
subject I should certainly exercise my Protestant judgment,
but I am asked whether we should interfere by law in order
to put special restrictions on and submit to special examina-
tion the houses in which those ladies have chosen to liver
The hon. gentleman who last spoke has pointed out one
great defect, and I, as a Protestant, agree with him—a de-
fect which not only attaches to, but which I say is inseparable
from, institutions of this kind. It cannot but happen that
young women who, in the enthusiasm of youth, from
their own ardent and devotional dispositions, or perhaps
the persuasions of their near relations (in other countries, I
know, such persuasions have been used)—it cannot but
happen, I say, that young women who have embraced a
life of monastic retirement, should sometimes find that
their dispositions are but ill suited to that life of monotony
and restriction, and who have, consequently, many regrets
after the world which they have left—who are discontented
with .the vocation which they have chosen, and who often
wish that they had not bound themselves by the solemn
vows which they have taken. We would wish, of course,
that such persons had not taken such vows, and had not so
bound themselves, or that they did not remain dissatisfied
with themselves and with all around them in the houses to
which they belong. But when the hon. gentleman says
that we ought not to permit, in a free country, such things
to take place, he goes far beyond the remedy which is pro-
posed by the hon. gentleman who brings forward this bill,
and, as I will presently show him, the remedy which he
proposes is of a totally different nature ; because when he
quotes from the writings of Alphonse Liguori, and from
other works, the exhortations—almost the threats, which
are used towards nuns who repent of their vocation, it is
evident that such arguments are used, not for the purpose
of confining them by fetters and manacles, or by the dun-
geons to which he has alluded, under ground, but that they
are addressed to the sensitive minds and feelings of those
nuns, who are told that, having bound themselves by such
solemn engagements, they have no right lightly to violate
those engagements. (Hear, hear.) I certainly agree with
the hon. gentleman that those arguments are hardly likely
to reconcile such persons as he has described to the life with
which they have become discontented, that the pangs of
conscience and the mental struggles which are undergone
in such cases must often be painful in the extreme and if
he were to argue, as a general question, that these institu-
tions are often very injurious in their consequences, as a
Protestant I could not but agree with him—(hear, hear) ;
but when I am asked to assent to a new law upon this sub-
ject, and when he tells me that in a free country we ought
not to permit such things existing, I must tell him
that the only law which would prevent such things
existing is a law forbidding the existence of con-
vents altogether (hear, hear) because the chances
are, that the persons who go to those convents are per-
sons who would, in the first place, refuse to give the
inspectors any explanation ; that a lady having those feel-
ings to which I have referred would probably object to
state her feelings and the struggles of her conscience to the
inspector ; and that if she was told, " The doors of the
convent are thrown open to you; you may go into the
world if you think proper ; you may go to-morrow and
live in the metropolis of England if you please ;" the pro-
bability is, she would answer, " You are mistaken in my
case. It is not the doors of the convent ; it is not the
bolts and the bars and the locks which confine me ; it is
my sense of obligation ; it is the thought that I have taken
a vow which I must keep, and that I will commit a great
sin if I violate that vow. (Hear.) How would the hon.
gentleman's bill apply to such a case as that ? In what
way would it meet it ? (Hear, hear.) It must be evident
that it would be utterly inefficient. (Hear, hear.) And
it must be evident, further, that unless you cease to per-
mit the existence of convents altogether in this country,
you cannot reach the evils which the hon. gentleman has
pointed out. But we have hitherto agreed to allow of
convents existing in this country ; hitherto, the law has
not forbidden the consolations which convents afford to
one class of females, or the practical uses to which they are
applied in other cases, and I confess I am disposed to leave
the question to the opinions and sense of the Roman Catho-
lics themselves, and not to forbid the existence of those
institutions. (Hear, hear.) Well, then, we come to the
more intelligible evil which the hon. gentleman who
brought forward the motion has stated to the house, and
that is the evil of persons being actually confined in con-
vents against their own will, and forced by physical means
to remain in convents. I must say, in the first place, that
with respect to evidence of such cases we have none. The
hon. gentleman who brought forward the motion stated
some cases, and others have stated three or four, but these I
are all cases without positive names attached to them—
without particulars being given—without those cross-exa-
minations without which cases of this kind are very little
worth, and without those positive proofs which I think
this house ought to require before they have any legislation
on the subject. (Hear.) The hon. gentleman the member
for Cheltenham (Mr. C. Berkeley) has stated that he was
not allowed to see a near relation of his except in the pre-
sence of the superintendent. Now, as far as I can make
out, that was not a case depending on any general law with
respect to those communities. That case, it seems to me,
was entirely of a private and domestic nature ; and it
might have happened that a young lady, being a .Protest-
ant, had gone to her aunt or other friend, and that one of
her nearest relations was not allowed to see her except in
the presence of the lady in whose house she lived. It does
not appear to me that that is a case which is inseparably
connected with the institution of convents. But there is
a further reason—and it appears to me an unanswerable
one—why we ought not to come to the conclusion to which
the hon. gentleman asks us to come. The hon. gentleman
says that the ladies are confined by force—that their per-
sonal liberty is denied them—and that the whole power of
the British Parliament is required in order to set them free
from the bonds by which they are detained. Now, if it is
tree that we live in a free country, don't tell me that the
Roman Catholic gentry of Great Britain and Ireland are
utterly dead to those feelings of political • freedom which
animates the subjects of this kingdom in general. (Hear,
hear.) Don't tell me, above all, that they are so destitute
of the common affections of humanity that they would
willingly see the laws of freedom set at nought, and the
doctrine of slavery acted on towards their nearest rela-
tions, and that they have not the heart to stand up in this
house and denounce that tyranny, and ask our assistance
to take off their fetters. (Hear, hear.) I cannot believe
that if the evil referred to had existed to any extent that
the Roman Catholic gentlemen of this country would not
themselves have come to this house and asked us to pass a
law in order to establish the freedom of their own near
relations. (Hear, hear.) For these reasons I should be
sorry to consent to the introduction of a bill on this sub-
ject. But, is that all the objection ? Does the objection
end with that statement ? No ; I think the objection goes
a great deal further than this. It is not only that the
persons of the Roman Catholic persuasion do not come and
ask us to interfere on behalf of their female relatives,
said to be detained in prison, but it is evident that they
would feel it as a serious injury, and somewhat of an
insult, if we were to attempt the passing of such a
law. (Hear, hear.) If we are to have any law on the
subject—if any remedy is required, let it be a remedy
that will apply to the whole nation. (Hear.) Let the
Habeas Corpus Act
be made more complete—let there be
fitter means for all persons, whether Roman Catholic or
Protestant, who are confined against their will, obtaining
the interposition of a court of justice ; but such is not the
remedy which this bill proposes. When such a remedy
is proposed it will be time enough for the House of Com-
mons to consider its necessity. But it is proposed that
application should be made to the executive Government
of the country—that the authority of the Secretary of State
should be interposed, and that he should be asked to send
down to those houses containing nuns an inspector, armed
with the power of investigation, if required. Well, I say
that a remedy like this, differing from the erdinary laws of
the land, and put in force by a Secretary of State, who
may be called upon by the House to interfere in any case
which may be got up by a popular gust of passion in the
country--such Secretary of State belonging to a party who
may possibly be favourable to Roman Catholics, but who,
on the other hand, may possibly be hostile to them—l say,
that such a power could hardly be used without exciting
feelings of great indignation on the part of Roman Catho-
lwieistiti, and that notreligionslmttbeir fory p
institutionsure
of were
public policy,
unduly
interfered
still
ill
less for any purpose of
have heard some symptArmlbslioe ecfuth:esifteyelin(Hgseair
n,thheae r.)You
declara-
tion made by two hon, membersliam, those who belonged
to-night, that if such in-
spection were authorised by Parliament,
ndwould
r estab immediatelylitl iemselyes in other
eotounthtryoseani(nisltrietulatniodn, s would quit both this
countries where they would not be liable to that inspection.
I cannot conceive such an event ha,PPoulu •
g_-1 cannot con-
ceive the sisters and near relations of the B. omap Catholic)