The Sun.
London, England, 1854-08-04 00:00:00

.TILE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, ATGITST 4, 1854.

of the Exe.hequer with a view to engage himself in higher
and more useful purusits, and that his desire f colonial
government was partly prompted by a wish that he might
be removed absolutely from the reach of temptation, and a
recurrence to those habits which it had been his anxious
desire to break off. The Luke of Newcastle further in-
formed me that he did not consider he was bound by what
hail passed between him and Mr. Lawley. He gave me his
opinion, as I have already stated, that Mr. Lawley was
well qualified for that appointuieut, and that it would con-
duce to the public service if he were so appointed. When I
accepted the se is of the Colonial-office, I found that the
governorship of South Australia was vacant by her Ma-
jesty ha: ins approved of the appointment of Sir H. Young,
the present governor of that colony, to another important
government. I had not, as I said before, the slightest
personal acquaintance with Mr. Lawley, and under these
circumstances I did not feel myself bound, after what
had passed between the Duke of Newcastle and myself, to
renew the offer of that appointment to Mr. Lawley. I un-
derstood that I was perfectly free, and wishing to shrink
from no responsibility in this matter, I wish to state clearly,
to the house all which passed between the Duke of New-
castle and myself. I was perfectly free to submit to her
Majesty the name of any gentleman for the appointment of
governor of South Australia. So much was I under that
conviction that I had actually made inquiries with respect
to another gentleman, in order to ascertain his qualifica-
tions, and the willingness to undertake that office, and I
intended to have made the offer to that other gentleman,
if under all the circumstances he had been willing to accept
it. But before any decisive steps were taken with respect
to filling up this government, I received about three weeks
ago a communication through my private secretary from
Mr. Lawley, which, I confess, gave a very aifferent aspect
to the case from that in which I had before viewed it. I
was then informed, for the first time, that Mr. Lawley was
under a different impression from that under which the
Duke of Newcastle was, and what he had communicated
to me as his impression, and which in justice to the Duke
of Newcastle, I sin bound to say hehas since most explicitly
confirmed. Mr. Lawley stated that he conceived from what
had passed between the Duke of Newcastle and himself,
that he was not considered to have declined the ap-
pointment; that the time for which he asked had
been allowed him, in order to consider the subject ; and
that for a period, during the continuance of the present
session, it was at his option either to deline or accept the
office. He stated that he had made up his mind, upon full
consideration and communication with those with whom
he had previously desired to consult to accept tne governor-
ship of South Australia, and he expressed some surprise
thatho had not received any communication from me on the
subject. I received this information certainly with some
surprise, because, . contrary to the impressions which, as
I have already said, I had formed from the statement of
the Duke of Newcastle, I spoke to a right hon. friend of
mine, a relative of Mr. Lawley's, in this house, and I
found that he was under the same impression as Mr. Law-
ley, and that not only Mr. Lawley, but that his family
and friends were under the impression that the governor-
ship of the colony had been offered to him, and that it was
in his power to decline or accept the office. I stated this
fact to the Duke of Newcastle ; and, again, I am bound
to say, in justification of the noble duke, he stated that
the impression existing in the mind of Mr. Lawley, and
of his friends, was not that which they were warranted
in entertaining ; that Mr. Lawley had not, it was true,
declined the appointment, and that the Duke of Newcastle
had undertaken to mention it to me ; but that I was as
free to deal with the appointment as if, instead of being
a colleague of the noble duke's, I had succeeded him as
a political opponent. With me, therefor e, must rest the
responsibility of having submitted the name of Mr Lawley
to her Majesty. I had to consider what my public duty
required of me. I knew nothing whatever of Mr. Lawley;
nothing I may say against him, not even a whisper of sus-
picion with respect to any transactions in which he had
been engaged; and as many honourable men who live in
this country are engaged on the turf and in horse racing,
I slid not think that alone was a sufficient reason for re-
versing the decision to which the Duke of Newcastle had
come with respect to the person to be appointed to thegover-
norship of au important colony. Upon the other hand, I
knew nothing of Mr Lawley, and not having known any-
thing of him; I did not, as I have said before, feel justified
in making any renewed offer to him. He certainly is not
a gentleman to whom entirely from the absence of all
knowledge of him, whether positive or negative, as. regard.
his character—to whom I should have offered the govern-
ment, nor was his a name which I should have submitted
, to her Majesty for the governor of an important colony.
But when I found that he had been for some weeks under
the impression, and that his friends held the same opinion,
that he was to succeed Sir H. Young—when I found from in-
quiries among his friends, and when, from contemporaries
at the university where be obtained high distinction, I re-
ceived the highest testimonials as to the ability and character
of Mr. Lawley—l felt that I was in a position in which I
should either submit Mr. Lawley's name, a gentleman with
whom I had no acquaintance, and had had no opportunity
of forming a judgment as to his qualifications, except from
having received the opinions of many persons that he was
qualified for the post which he desired to occupy ; or,
upon the other hand, that I should, by acting contrary to
their opinions by withholding the submitting his name to
her Majesty, appear to have conveyed an opinion that I
thought Mr. Lawley was not fit for the appointment, and
thus have cast a stigma upon him which was wholly un-
merited. Having ,obtained all the information I could
from every quarter with respect to the ability of Mr. Law-
ley, I told my right hon. friend, that although I knew
nothing of that gentlemad, and should not have chosen
him myself, still that uh:er all the circumstances of the
case I was prepared in accordance with his opinion, with
that of the Duke of Newcastle, and of others who knew
Mr. Lawley, and had had opportunities of judging of his
character which I did not possess, s after than do any
injury or wrong, and believing from all that I had heard
that he would make an efficient governor of South A us-
tralia, to submit his name to her Majesty for that appoint-
ment. I did so submit the name to her Majesty, and het
Majesty approved the appointment. Fur that recommen-
dation I am responsible to her Majesty, and for her Ma-
jesty's approval of Mr. Lawley's appointment I alone am
responsible. (Hear, hear.) Immediately after that ap-
pointment was known—and it was known, I think, on the
very day on which I received her Majesty's approval of the
appointment—the right honourable baronet shemember for
Droitwich placed upon the notice paper of the house a ques
tion to be addressed to me on the following day, asking
whether Mr. Lawley had been appointed, and whether it
was the intention of the Government to submit the name
of Mr. Lawley to her Majesty for appointment as governor
of South Australia or any other colony. When I saw that
notice, I can assure the house I had not even a suspicion of
any circumstances connected with Mr. Lawley to which
that notice could point. I came down to the house pre-
pared to have heard from the right hon. baronet the grounds
which would have justified his putting a question which
certainly was one of an unusual character. The right hon.
baronet stated no grounds for putting his question, and I
need not say I do not complain of this, because the right
hon. baronet is a political opponent, and was not bound to
communicate to me any private information which he
possessed.
d From that day to this I have received not.the
slightest information with respect to the
the
supon
which that question was put. I answered question,
viz.,l could t answerhat her
itth eirne fao
eee,
ridna n
et he ewiothhl ywt
the
a ys
t inc t e7s th itcruh t
Ihad ad • viz ed and that
Majesty had been advised to appoint Mr. Lawley to
the government of South Australia,
Is ay
week, awl, as I have said, I was utterly at a os w
the appointment. That question was put to
Imes tthe.knle..
to what that question pointed. (H ,
pointed in
have been thankful to have known to what
order that any valid ear, hear.) I should
objection to Mr. Lawley might have
been investigated fairly and filly, but I was unable to take
the slightest movement towards instituting such an in-
quiry. I should state that immediately before I submitted
the name Mr. Ls.wley to her Majesty, I spoke to my
right hon. friend (Mr. Stuart Wortley), in order to ascer.
tarn what his impressions were with respect to the effect
of what had passed between the Duke of Newcastle and
Mr. Lawley with respect to this appointment. He, as I
should have expected from him, fairly told me what the
Duke of Newcastle had told me before, viz:—that Mr.
Lawley had been " upon the turf," and he felt that that

migldbe an objection ; but. be statetlat the same time, in

the explicit terms which I could desire, that there
was not a single debt or liability outstanding to which Mr.
Lawley was now subjict, or in order to evade which he
might be desirous to leave this country on receiving the
appointment. The facts, therefore, as they were known
to me, were—that Mr. Lawley, as I have said has been the

case with too many young men to their loss, and it may
bo to their ultimate ruin, had been early engaged iu tran-
.

sactious on " the turf ;"but that not one whisper of dis-
honourable conduct in connection with that pursuit had
then reached or las yet reached me—(hear)- -and that
there was no outstanding debt or liability to which Mr.
Lawley was subject on that account. If there' bad
been, I should have felt that I was departing widely from
my duty as a Minister of the Crown in submitting to her
Majesty the name of a gentleman with whom it. might be
an object to remove himself from the reach of those means
which might be enforced against him in order to enforce
the settlement of his liabilities. On Friday last, after the
morning sittings of the house, I returned to my office.
and shortly before six o'clock, when about to return to
the house, the Duke of Newcastle came to my room, end
told me that he felt it his duty to come to me and inform
me at the earliest moment be could, that from two sepa-
rate quarters, in the course of +he day, he had received in-
formation of rumours being in circulation highly injuri
ous to the character of Mr. Lawley. He did not tell me
from whom the information was derived, but sta' ed that

it was received in one instance from a peer, and in the
other irons a right hon. gentleman well known to himself
❑

as well as to rue, but whose name he did not state. He
told me the nature of these rumours, and as I am anxious
that the house should be in full possession of all the cir-
cutnstances connected with the case, hon. members will
think, perhaps, that I am only doing my duty if I state
what was the nature of those rumours which were stated
to me in the course of conversation. The Duke of
Newcastle stated that he had been informed that very
recently Mr. Lawley had become subject to heavy lia-
bilities and debts in connection with transactions on
the turf. He told mo besides that there were rumours of a
much more serious character as affecting the conduct, Posi-
tion, and character of Mr. Lawley—viz., that Mr. Lawley
had availed himself of the official knowledge acquired as
private secretary to the right hon. gentleman the Chancel-
lor of the Exchequer to eno..ag,e in extensive speculations
iu the funds. The Duke of Newcastle was on his way to
the House of Lords, and was obliged to leave me almost
immediately. The purport of what the noble duke stated

to me I have now stated to the 11ouse,andThereCould be
no doubt as to the course which I ought immediately to
pursue. I immediately put aside the business on which I
was engaged, and addressed a letter to my right hon. friend
-the Chancellor of the Exchequer—Mr. Lawley being then
out of town—and I told him the extreme surprise and con-
cern with which I had just received this information from
the Duke of Newcastle. I told him that I was assured of
his entire concurrence in what I said, and that it would
meet equally with the concurrence of the Duke of New-
castle, that if there was any foundation of truth in the ru-
mour, it was'iwpossible that the appointment of Mr. Law-
ley could proceed. Istated my most earnest hope that he
would be able to disprove the truth of these rumours, and
that they would be found to be destitute of foundation, and
that until the receipt of satisfactory information I should
suspend all further proceedings with respect to the appoint-
ment of Mr. Lawley ; and that in justice to him, in justice to
myself,
in justice to theGovernment,and in justice to theco-
lony to which ho was to be appointed, these reports should
be communicated to Mr. Lawley at the earliest opportunity
in order that he might have themeans and opportunity
which any man was justly entitled to, of knowing what
had been said in regard to him, and having every oppor-
tunity of explaining or refuting the charges. My right
hon. friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer immediately
came to me. He told me that Mr. Lawley was out of
of town, that he would be in London on the following
night, .and I asked him what course it would be best to
take with the view of bringing these facts and rumours
Under the notice of Mr. Lawley. He said that Mr. Lawley
was to be in town the next day, and asked my opinion as
to whether it wad desirable that he should transmit by the
ofpost
letter to him to Mr.
:Lawley As
Lawley wag evening my
town the following day, we
at
bein

thought that, by sending, the letter, we lit incur the
risk of his nut receisAtog itidrlBl ht.the best.
way was that my right hon. friend should Write to Mr.
Lawley, to say that he had received such a letter, in order
to ensure his early arrival in town. On Monday morning
the house sat at twelve o'clock. I was there, and I asked
my right hon. friend the Recorder of London (Mr. Stuart
Wortley) whether he had seen Mr. Lawley, and I was in-
formed by him that Mr. L twley had gone to my office in
Downing-street, with a view to see me there. I was in
this house at the time, and my private secretary, who is
also a member of this house, was likewise here. Very
shortly after that communication was made to me, after I
had been informed of Mr. Lawley's desire to see me, with
the view of completely denying the truth of these reports,
I received through my private secretary a letter addressed
to him, which he put into my hands in this house and which
contained, as it appeared to me, a clear, satisfactory, and
conclusive denial of by far the most serious charge and im-
putation which had been brought against Mr. Lawley,
namely, the fact of his having speculated in the funds upon
his official information as the private secretary of the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer. I transmitted that letter imme-
diately to the Duke of Newcastle, because, as it was through
his grace that these reports had reached me, I was desirous
that he should see the terms in which the charges had been
met, and I was anxious not to rely only on my own judg-
ment, though I fairly avow that in writing to his grace, I
stated my belief that the terms its which Mr. Lawley's de-
nial was expressed were quite conclusive in regard to by
far the most serious of these imputations. The Duke of
Newcastle concurred with me in that view. Subsequently
on meeting the Recorder of London, he renewed to me, as
he was empowered to do, the direct denial of there being
any liability or debt existing to which Mr. Lawley could
b,.‘ subject, and with a view to avoid which he was desirous
of leaving this country. And with reference to that lam
anxious to state that in theonly intervisr which I had with
Mr. Lawley—the only opportunity which I had of speaking
to him o a the subject of his appointment—he appeared de-
sirous to fix a time for his departure from this country which
I thought too remote, and I told him that if he accepted the
Appointment I should bold him liable to proceed tothe colony
whenever I required him to do so, without suiting his own
convenience by waiting till a more distant period. I men-
tion that circumstance because I think it shows that in the
only conversation which I had with Mr. Lawley, there was
clearly in his mind no desire to leave this country, so as
to avoid any liability to which he might be subject
and that, in truth, in accepting the appointment he con-
ternpLted a longer residence here than I thought consistent
with the public interests. (Hear.) So matters stood until
this dny. The right hon. baronet opposite in the mean-
time gave notice of the motion which appears on the papers
for this evening ; and I thought that the statement which
I am now making ought then to be made to the house, in
order that it might be known precisely under what cir-
cumstances this appointment had been made, and that I
might have an opportunity of referring to the testimonials,
certainly of the most satisfactory kind, so far as any man's
judgment can be formed from such documents, which Ihad
received as to the ability, the honour, and the integrity of
Mr. L- wley. (Hear.) But in the course of this morning
I received from my right hon. friend the Chancellor of the
Exchequer a cominithic ition which did astonish me, which
he made, no doubt, with the deepest regret and concern,
and which I need not say I received with the same feel-
ing's. From that communication it appeared that Mr.
Lawley had been engaged in transactions in the funds
within the last few mouths which, to a certain extent
justified those rumours which had been stated to me, an

with regard to which I had expressed my opinion—an
opinion in which my noble friend the Duke of Newcastle
entirely concurred —that if there was any foundation of truth
in them theappointment of Mr. La wley could not proceed. It
is clue, in justice to Mr. Lawley, to state—and it is within
he knowledge of my right hon. friend that I ain able to
state with certainty—that the information with regard to
,here transactions is derived exclusively from Mr. Lawley
himself. (Hear, hear.) I am informed that late last
Might he felt it his duty to communicate to my right hon.
Friend the facts the purport of which was communicated
ne to-day. I have stated before that the charge which I
understood to have been made against Mr. Lawley wad
this -that ho had availed himself of his official knowledge
Ls private secretary to my right hon. friend to engage in
these speculations in the funds. I have no reason to be-
lieve that that is the case. (Hear, hear.) lam informed
that the speculations in which Mr. Lawley engaged were
losing speculations and not gaining speculations. Mr.
Lawley is entitled to the bailout of that statement ; but,
however he may be affected by it, I am bound to say that
in my opinion it did not in the least affect my duty to the
Crown, to this country, and to the colony, and I imme-
liately addressed a letter to her Majesty, expressing my
;reat regret and concern that I had recently submitted
for the approval of her Majesty an appointment which
I now felt it my imperative duty, under circumstances
which had just come to my knowledge, humbly to
advise her Majesty to revoke. (Hear, hear.) I believe
I have now submitted the whole of this painful case.
Painful I may say to me it has been to make this
statement. (Hear, hear.) Though I have thought it right
to state what passed between the Duke of Newcastle and
myself before I accepted the seals of the Colonial-office in
iorrection of the impression which existed in the mind of
Mr. Lawley and that of his friends, yet I feel that the
responsibility of submitting the name of Mr. Lawley to
her Majesty devolves no doubt upon myself ; and any
censure which the house may feel is due to that act I
will humbly and patiently submit to, though, as I have
already said, the motives which influenced me were such
Ls I venture to think would have influenced any other man
in my position. (Hear, hear.) In the absence of the
slightest shadow of suspicion which had been suggested to
,ne as attaching to the integrity and honour of Mr, Lawley,
mud with the strong testimonials I had in my hand to his
Lbiiity and qualifications from those in whom I had con-
idence, I think I could not have acted otherwise than I

(Hear, hear.) I believe I have now stated fully,
frankly, and unreservedly to the house all the circum-
stances of this transaction. Having done so, it is for the
right honourable baronet opposite to take any course
which his sense of public duty may leal him to take with
regard to this subject. I am at this moment absolutely
In ignorance of the grounds upon which the right
Honourable baronet placed his notice upon the paper.
I am told that an application was made to him to know
whether he intended to impugn the appointment of
lir. Lawley upon public or private grounds, but that
the right honourable gentleman, in the exercise of a

.liscre►,ion which Ido not question, declined to give any
itich information. If it had not been for Mr. Lawley's
,wn act—if he had not stated fully, freely, and unreservedly
to my right hon. friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer
the whole circumstances of his transactions in the funds—

I should have come down here to-night ignorant of the
grounds upon which the right hon. baronet meant to im-
pugn the appointment, and I might thereby have been led
so make statements which I might afterwardsdeeply regret,
but which Mr. Lawley has now prevented me from being
induced to make by the statement which he has himself
made. The appointment, as I said before, her Majesty has
been advised to revoke ; and I may state here that, when
Mr. Lawley made his statement last night, he felt that he
was making a statement which would prove fatal to his
prospects in the colonies, and at once declared that he con-
ihsaeayre.)maldoh,atvheeobnolyostootahftoerri
ntfhoer taattieomo eunpto
oI
con-
sidered his appointment 'altogether at an end. (Hear,
wish for orf if,u
the subject—(cries of " no, no")—or thinks that an investi-
gation into all the circumstances of the case should take
place—(renewed cries of "no, no")—her Majesty's Govern-
ment is in the hands of the house, and is ready and willing
to agree to whatever may be considered necessary.
Sir J. PAKlNGTON—Notwithstanding the observa-
tions with which the right hon. baronet has clos.d his
speech, I beg to state that I am deeply sensible of the per-
fect candour with which. the right hon. gentleman has now
addressed the house (hear)—and that I am no less sensi-
ble of the honourable feeling which has distinguished
that
speech. (Hear.) I can assure the right hon. baronet that,
whatever political differences may divide us, I do not be-
lieve that he is a man who would recommend to the Sove-
reign the appointment of any person to exercise the high
and responsible duties of a Colonial governor, unless he
was satisfied of the fitness of that individual—(hear)—
and I hope the right hon. gentleman will do me equal jus-
tice, and will believe that I have approached this painful
subject solely and exclusively from a strong and paramount
ne
sense of public duty—(hear, hear) —arisi b from the deep
interest which I naturally take in the welfare of our colo-
ilia] dependencies. (Hear.) I had no desire to impede the
fair advancement of a gentleman towards whom I dial not
feel, nor could not feel, a shadow of personal enmity; nor
could I have any desire to wound the friends of that gen-
tleman, many of whom are personal friends of my own.
But I am unable to aree altogether in the opinion which
appears to have been entertained by the Duke .of News
•
castle, and which the right honourable baronet , , as I un-
derstood him, has himself avowed, of
.the personal, fit-
ness, irrespective of these' painful rumours and trans-
actions, of Mr. Lawley for the position to which he was
appointed. The right honourable baronet has stated
that I gave him no grounds for the question which I put to
him this day week. I can assure the right hon. gentleman
that if he thought that I was deficient in courtesy in so do-
ing, or if he thought I was deficient in courtesy and fair-
ness in not having held communication with him in regard
to the course which I intended to take to-day, no such dis-
courtesy was meant by me; I deeply felt the difficulty and
delicacy of the duty which I had undertaken. I was de-
•;irous not to say a word more upon this painful subject
than I could possibly help; and I can assure the right hon.
baronet, in consequence of the reference which he has made
to me, that it was not till within the last few hours that I
could conclusively make up my mind as to the course which
my public duty required. me to take. I have •
said that I
could not concur in the opinion of the Duke of Newcastle
with regard to the personal fitness of Mr. Lawley for this
appointment. I believe, and I think the right hon. baronet
will agree with me, that among the patronage of the Crown,
which is exercised by the advisers f o the Crown, there is
scarcely any which ought to n • e exercised with greater care
and with a nor© anxious and
single-minded reference to the
public interests than the appointment of governors for our
colonies. (Hear.) Those appointments ought to be made in
such a manner as not
onlyto secure the satisfaction and
confidence of this country, but what is still more important
to satisfy the colonists over whom the gentleman so chosen
are to preside, that these
solely with reference to the appointments have been made
lonies.(Hear, hear.)
If
this
itern interest and welfare of the Co.rue generally it is especially
and peculiarly true with references
nies at the present moment.' discoverieshe to the Australian colo
put these colonies in a most critical
of gold have
position. They re-
quire the anxious care and attention
of the colonial Governments. The of the imperial and
colony of Victoria, at
a very recent period, I may without
a
dissolved. The colony of South Australia,exggeration say was
immediately
contiguous to Victoria, although no discoveries
have been
made within it, bias undergone a period of
commercial disturbance ; and it was desiragrbeleatfor the social and
in-
terests of the colony. and indeed of all the Australian
co-
lonies, that the gentleman selected to be governor should
possess statesmanlike qualities and known abilities. He
ought to be a m .n of great experience in public affairs, of
great firmness, and of great judgment. He ought to be
loan whose character should at once inspire confidence •a
his qualifications, and enable him to give a healthy moral
tone to that society of which he is to be the head, and
ought to be leader and the guide. Now, I do not think
that I at all disparage the claims of Mr. Lawley--I think
I say nothing to which the friends of Mr. Lawley can take
any fair exception when • I state that, considering his age
and position, and his limited experiencein pnblicaffairs, the
appointment of Mr. Lawley, under any circumstances as
governor of one of the Australian colonies at this moment,
was one that was too likely to excite feelings of dis-
satisfaction in the colony, and was not likely to conduce
to the advantage of those rising communities. But, irre-
spective of this consideration, when I gave notice of my
intended motion two days ago, the hon. and learned gen-
tleman the recorder of London adverted to what he spoke
of as calumnious rumours, and stated very naturally his
anxiety for an opportunity to meet and dispose of those
rumours. The right hon. baronet has now again referred
to these 'rumours. lie has given fresh prod of their ex-
tended currency. They have been commented upon by
the public press; they have become the subject of remark
in society ; and under these circumstances I did feel that
my public duty required that I should call the attention
of the house and of the Government to this appeintmentin

order that, before Mr. Lawley left this country to under-
taksi the' go vernene n't,;:ofrthe i portant or Strut 'Ms-
tralia, these rumours, which had become current in every
circle, might be set at rest one way or the other. I did
feel that it was due to Mr. Lawley himself, that it was due
to the Government who appointed him, but, above all,
that it was due to the colony, that Mr. Lawley
should not commence his career under the disadvan-
tage of having these rumours preceding his arrival in the
colony, and therefore under circumstances which could not
but be disadvantageous to him as well as to those whom
he was appointed to govern. It was therefore really as a
matter of public duty, and in spirit of fairness to all par-
ties, that I did venture to give my opinion, that before Mr.
Lawley commenced the important duties which the Go-
vernment had assigned to him, these rumours should be
disposed of one wayor the other. After the speech which
the right hon. baronet had made, and after the distressing
allusions in that speech, I think it is hardly necessary for
me to say that I certainly should not have thought that the
mere fact of having been connected with the sport of horse-
racing was of itself a disqualification for holding the office
of governor of South Australia, or any other high appoint-
ment. I believe, without reference to party considerations,
without regard to one side of the house or the other, that
noblemen and gentlemen of as high and unimpeachable
honour as ever adorned society in this country have taken
an interest in the sport of horse-racing; and that it would
be an absurdity to contend that a mere taste for that sport
was of itself a disqualification for high office. (Hear.) The
right hon. baronet has asked me what course I intend to
take. To that I can return but one answer—the course
taken by the right honourable baronet himself has spared
me from a painful duty. I think that, under the circum-
stances wh ch have occurred, .Mr. Lawley has acted as a
gentleman in his position ought to have acted, and so far
as I am concerned nothing further will fall from me upon
this subject. (Hear, hear.) The subject must now be
considered to be at an end. I cannot but think that the
information which has been communicated to us justifies
me in the course which I thought it my duty to take. 1
shall say no more upon that point, but shall conclude by
express ng the hope, which I trust may be considered al-
most as superfluous, that the house will believe that no-
thing but a paramount sense of public duty has induced
me to take any part at all in this. ransaction. (Hear.)
Mr. S. WORTLEY—I need not say. that I rise upon the
present occasion with feelings of the most painful nature
—(hear, hear)—not on ve count of the explanation which
I feel to be due to the house with respect to what took
place ou a former evening, but because I feel that I have
in my hand the interests of one who niust ever be dear to
me, and because I am apprehensive that any imprudence
on my part should be dangerous to a reputation which
hitherto has been untarnished. (Hear, hear.) The right
hon. baronet the Secretary for the Colonies has expressed
his regret that the right hon. gentleman opposite has up to
the present moment never intimated, either to the Minister
who was responsible for his appointment, or to the friends
of Mr. Lawlev, the nature of the charge which he intended
to make—whether it was upon public grounds as to the fit-
ness of the individual selected, or whether it was upon such
private grounds as those which have been referred to this
evening. Under these circumstances, there was nothing
for Mr. Lawley and his friends but to collect from public
rumour what it was that the right hon. gentleman opposite
meant, and that public rumour undoubtedly embodied the
charges which have been already referred to. By far the
gravest and most important of these charges was this, that
Mr. Lawley had availed himself of his official knowledge
as private secretary to the Chancellor of the Exchequer to
speculate in the funds. The moment that I heard that
imputation I utterly disbelieved it. But before I pursue
that, allow me to confirm some of the statements which
have been made by the Colonial Secretary In justification
of Mr. Lawley. I must tell the house, in the first place,
that this appointment was obtained by Mr. Lawley solely
by his own exertions. No person applied for it in his be-
half ; no influence was used by his relatives or others to
obtain it for him ; it was h s merits, and his merits alone
—his services in the last eighteen months, during which
he has been a most able, efficient, and faithful servant to
the Chancellor of the Exchequer—which recommended him
to official men for that appointment. (Hear, hear.) I
myself heard of the appointment with astonishment. At
first I was informed that the appointment was to the go.
vernorship of West Australia, and as a relative of Mr.
Lawley I more than once remonstrated, and expressed my
regret that so able and so promising a man should place
himself in exile in such a manner as that. I found I was
tmraisltiaak. enß,uatnedvetnhatthetnheitapwpaosi
the friends of Mr. Lawley could approve of his leaving this
lou So
toauht
ohs A
thus-
at
country. When, however, we were told that the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer had recommended him to accept
the appointment, and that it would afford him an oppor-
tunity of withdrawing from that unhappy connection
which has been the unfortunate cause of all this mischief,
we rejoiced that an opportunity which I knew he was
himself anxious to obtain had been placed within his reach.
A connection with the turf, as it is called, is unfortunately
one from which a man cannot withdraw himself in a mi-
nute. He has contracted obligations to which he must be
attentive in order to avert great losses at a future time, and
it is impossible to withdraw himself from such a connection
in a moment. I was consequently aware that prior to the
time when this appointment was offered to him Mr.
Lawley had not been able entirely to extricate himself;
but I knew at the same time that he was anxiously de-
sirous to do so as soon as possible, and it was upon that
ground that his family were prepared to recommend him to
accept the governorship of South Australia, though they
certainly were of opinion that the acceptance of such an ap-
pointment would involve some sacrifice on the part of a man
with his connections, with his fortune, with his abilities,
and his determination to devote them to the public service,
and with a seat in Parliament. Not that I mean to depre-
ciate so high and impol taut an office as the governorship of
South Australia—l merely state what our views were—and
at all events Mr. Lawley was advised to accept the appoint-
ment. The right hon. baronet the Secretary for the Colo-
nies, as he has already stated to the house, came to me and
asked me what was the understanding of Mr. Lawley's fa-
mily with reference to what had passed between him and
the Duke of Newcastle. My answer was that we had all
understood that the office was placed at Mr. Lawley's dis-
posal, but that he had asked and obtained time to consider
the subject. The right hon. baronet, in the handsomest
and kindest manner, immediately said that there was au
end to all further question in regard to the appointment,
and that he was wilting to take the whole responsibility of
the nomination. I then thought it my duty to estate to
the right hon. baronet that Mr. Lawley had not only
been on the turf, but had also incurred losses and embar-
rassment—that he had made a full statement of all his
difficulties to his friends, and that care would be taken,
he having considerable expectations, that by the time he
left this country he should not be a single farthing in debt.
(Hear.) We were, of course, greatly astonished by the
question of the right honourable baronet opposite, and
were anxious to ascertain whether it was brought forward
upon public or private grounds. I made an application to
the right honourable baronet on the subject, but he de-
clined to give inn the desired information.
Sir J. PAKINGTON—I did not decline. I stated that
I was then unable to give an answer, but promised to do
so as soon as I possibly could.
Mr. S. ViTORTLEY—You said that you would give me
an answer on the following Thursday, which was the day
on which you wore to bring forward your question. Mr.
Lawley was out of town at that time. I wrote to him
immediately that it was necessary he should come to
London. He came. I saw him the moment he ar-
rived. He told me that he had seen attacks against him
in the newspapers, not on private, but on public
grounds, and frankly admitted that the appointment of
so young a man to an office of such importance might
vary fairly be made the subject of comment and animad-
version in the press. I told him that there were charges
affecting his personal honour, which he must be kre-
pared to meet if he intended to bold the appointment. I
said I was unable to ascertain the grounds or purport of
the motion which the right hon. baronet intended to make
in this house, but I added it was rumoured, and that the
rumour had reached the Duke of Newcastle and Sir George
: I rejoiced
which
ratheatupheendaidfesrom, and
ad-
vised him to write to Sir George Grey to that effect. Such
occa-
sion to refer to what I called the " calumnious rumours"
which were afloat concerning Mr. Lawley. To this moment
I has believe I ha d
his ve Mr. Lawley's authority for saying
that he
use o 14cial knowledge
as private secretary
to the Chancellor of the Exchequer for thpurpose of spe-
culating in the funds ; and i I it is e purp
indeed clear and manifest
that he has never done so, for, as h'as been alreadystated,
his speculations have been losin
ess sp y
eculations, and have
only increased his difficulties. 6'
oubsequentl however, he
thought it right—having up to that time
concealed' the fact
under the false impression that he was bound not to dis-
close the names of others—to state to the Chancellor of the
Exchequer that he had been engaged in speculating in the
funds, but that those speculations had been wholly uncon-
nected with any official information which ho might have
possessed. Under th
htes se
tcircumstances Mr. Lawley does not
complain in the slig_ degree of the step which has been
taken by the right hon. baronet the Secretary for the Colo-
nies; on the contrary, he has no doubt that thublic ser-
vice• •ed it, and that, after such
required a great indiscretion
of, it was of
as he hail been guiltycourse utterly impossible
that his appointment could proceed. have stated that it
was by his own merits alone that he obtained this appoint-
ment. I do not rely upon my own opinion upon that point.
It might be biassed by affection. or do I rely upon the
• • of his friends merel, but uPon that of public men
opinion
opportunities °filed •
having the greatest ging of Mr.Lawley,
I h •
and qualifications. old in my hand a letter
his capacity
from one of the distinguished
the
public servants in the coun-
try—Mr. John Wood, chairman cf he Board of Inland
Revenue. He bad frequently spokenti to me about this
appointment, and had referred in f highest terms to the
ability and fitness of Mr.
alb Law y o
.'ectio the office. I asked
him if ho would have nnyis
werej these • put his opi-
His err(
" I wish I
nion upon paper. public e'—
had the opportunity to give
myl
could testimony to his
fitness for the appointment.refer to my know-
ledgeTS,
of him for very many years,
two
ond more particu-
larly to my experience during t
to the Chancellori"s
he has
acted as private secretary
of the Ex-
iles a day passed during that period • Ex-
chequer. Seldom
cation with in
which I have not had communication him, and this
is by no means the first occasion on which I have ex-
pressed my admiration
of his talents, his indefatigable in-
dustry, and his singular aptitude for business •
These qua-
lities are enhanced by a most
amiable temper and an
earnest sincerity, which are peculiarly valuable in official
life. lam well aware that he has long entertained a par-
tiality for colonial government, and has been desirous to
much I
qualify himself for it ; and,inBol
as wish that he had
ne degree remained in this country, I am reconciled
to his going, believing that an honourable careers- of distin-
guished usefulness is before him. (Hear, hear.) That is
the opinion of a disinterested and certainly most capable
witness. But I have got another testimony--not from a
gentleman belonging tosome politicalparty
the .
as
Mr.
Lawley—not from an old friend —but —but from a distinguished
man, holding a high and important office. It is to the
following effect :—" I shall mach regret your departure
from Downing-street, whoever may be your successor, and
you have nw hearty good wishes for yonrsuccess in yourgo-
verninent, of which I cannot havoc doubt, for you will bring
to the discharge of your dati s talents, activity, and honesty
of purpose, and every quality requisite to insure success."
(Hear, heir.) That is the opinion of the Chairman of the
Board of Customs, Sir Thomas Fremantle. I feel it due to
the Government who made this appointment to bring be-
fore the house these testimonies to the fitness of Mr. Law-
ley; and I do so also for the purpose of confirming what I
have already said, that he obtained the appointment, not
by the influence of friends, but by his own merits, and
of showing that it was an honourable ambition which
prompted him to accept it. I likewise wish to state that
until a late hour last night, neither his own family nor
any member of the Government could have been at all
aware of his transactions in the funds. I can only repeat
most emphatically that on no occasion has Mr. Lawley
used his official situation for the purpose of assisting in
these speculations. They are the unfortunate consequence
of a habit acquired in former years, when he kept the so-
ciety of men who indulged in gambling transactions 9f this

description, but in no instance as ho availed himself of his
officiatrilosition. e(Hear, IP there be the.slightett
doubt of that, Mr. Lawley is willing to lay bare his breast.
and submit to any inquiry or examination, either by a
committee or any other tribunal the House of Commons
may think necessary. I have again to assert that though
there may be, as I deeply regret there are, reflections on
his prudence, on his honour there are none ; and I trust
he will survive to resume, at some future time, the career
from which he is at present displaced, with better hopes
and under better auspices. (Cheers.)
Lord D. STUART said, although he had not the honour
of Mr. Lawley's acquaintance, and although it might seem
strange that sitting on the same side of the house he did
not even know that gentleman by sight, he was exceedingly
desirous of having one question answered for the sake of
Mr. Lawley himself, and he earnestly wished and expected
the answer would be favourable to him. The right hon.
gentleman the Colonial Secretary said he had received in-
formation which satisfied him that Mr. Lawley, during
the time that he had filled the office of secretary to the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, had not speculated in the
funds. The right hon. gentleman stated, that subsequently
he had received from Mr. Lawley himself a letter stating
that unfortunately he had during that time fallen into the
error of speculating in the funds, or entering into some
transactions connected with the funds, although he had
not used his official information in any way for the pur-
pose. Many hon. gentlemen near him understood the
right hon. gentleman to say that he had received a letter
from Mr. Lawley, at first stating that he had not during
the periodhehel
spdthecenoffice of secretary
the funds.secretar H
yto theewished to
Chancellor
of the Exchequer
know whether that impression was correct?
Sir GEORGE GREY had stated before that in conse-
quence of rumours which reached the Duke of Newcastle,
which the Duke of Newcastle communicated to him, and
which he immediately communicated in writing to the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, which were that Mr. Lawley
had made use of his official knowledge, as private secretary
of the Chancellor of Exchequer, to speculate in the funds,
on Monday he received a communication which he thought,
and had a right to think, was satisfactory and conclusive
on these grounds. He certainly understood the purport of
that communication to cover the denial of any speculation
in the funds during the time Mr. Lawley was private secre-
tary to his right hon. friend. But, as he had distinctly
stated a reply was required directly to the very point, had
he made use of his official knowledge for the purpose of
speculating in the funds, and he was bound to belive that
the denial, whatever the terms, had reference to the charge
which was communicated in writing to hisright hon. friend.
Mr. DISRAELI—When the conduct of an individual is
under discussion it is not agreeable to interfere; but, after
the painful conclusion which has taken place to-day, there
are some observations which fell from the right hon. the
recorder, differing in some degree from the Secretary of State,
with respect to the conduct of my right hon. friend the mem-
ber for Droitwich, which I do not think I ought to pass
over unnoticed. Those right hon. gentlemen seem to charge
my right hon. friend with want of straightforwarness and
candour, because, after he felt it his duty to give notice to
the house that he should bring this subject of the appoint-
ment of Mr. Lawley before the consideration of the house,
he did not state explicitly what were the grounds upon
which he was about to challenge the propriety of that ap-
pointment. 1 think the house will feel, after what it has
hoard this evening, that my right hon. friend was placed in a
situation of extreme difficulty, and that it was impossiblefor
him definitely and precisely to state what were the charges
he had to make against Mr. Lawley, or on what particular
grounds he would challenge the propriety of that appoint-
ment. I am myself individually aware of the extreme pain
which my right hon. friend felt during the few days which
have elapsed with regard to this question. On more than
one occasion he did me the honour of consulting me, and
certainly the opinion I gave him was not one which at all
encouraged him in any plcipitate conduct in the affair.
(Hear, hear.) My hon. friend was actuated by as pure a
sense of public duty as influences any gentleman. (Hear.)
I am sure if the letter referred to by the Recorder were
read to the house, it would show that my right hon. friend
was influenced by feelings of the utmost courtesy and cor-
diality, and I feel it my duty, after the observations whit
have been madq, to express my own opinion (and I hope
and believe it is the opinion of a majority of this house, of
gentlemen on both sides) that the conduct of my right hon.
friend the member for Droitwich has been perfectly justi-
fied by all that has passed. (Hear.)
Mr. BRIGHT—I think the house will be disposed to pass
from the consideration of a case certainly the most painful
tht has occurred since I have had the honour to be a mem-
ber of it, and I should not say a syllable with regard to a
gentleman who, possibly without intending anything wrong,
is placed in a position which must give great pain to himself
and his friends. But there is another point involved in this
notice which has been very much concealed, or rather
pressed out of sight by the urgency of the personal case,
and that is the fact of the appointment of a gentleman to
an office of high responsibility under circumstances, apart
from all private character, which, I think, deserve the
attention of the house. I think the right hon. gentleman
the Colonial Secretary partly, if not entirely, admitted
that when this appointment was brought under his notice
he himself had some doubt as to the propriety of it, and I
think the right hon. gentleman the Recorder of the city of
London said that he heard of the appointment with asto-
nishment. I may say, I believe that feeling of astonish-
ment was almost universal among members of this house ;
and if a feeling of astonishment was created here, I should
like to ask what must we expect to be the feeling in
the colony over which this appointment was made?
For myself, though extremely sorry that this question
has come before us as it has done, I hope it may be a '
warning to the present Colonial Secretary and his suc-
cessors that the men to be appointed to these onerous
and responsible offices—to be sent to the other side of the
globe to represent the monarch of these realms, and to
carry out the behests of the Imperial Parliament—should
at least be men to whom no one here can point a finger, and
men who can at least deserve, if not obtain, Ihe full confi-
dence of the population they are intended to govern.
Mr. ADDERLEY thought everybody must allow that
the appointment of Mr. Lawley was a most unfortunate

one, and more especially unfOrtunate for that gentleman
himself, though, after all he had not been guilty of any-
thing dishonourable.

1 The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—In the
observations which I am desirous of offering to the house
I do not intend to enter upon the personal part of this dis-
cussion, except that I cannot refrain, as being one who
still feels a warm and an affectionate interest in the future.
of Mr. Lawley, from tendering my thanks to the house
for the considerate spirit in which they have approached
this discussion. I think it justly due to the right hon.
gentleman, the member for Droitwich, to tender him my
thanks, particularly as I am one who might question the
discretion in the exercise he has made of his undoubted
right to bring this subject forward. The speech which
that right hon. gentleman has made to-night has entirely
convinced me, not that he has been governed in this pro-
ceeding by a sense of public duty, but that he has sincerely
desired to unite the peformance of that duty with every
demonstration of friendliness of feeling towards the sub-
ject of it. (Hear.) It is not always usual for colleagues
to endeavour to do justice to one another when they are
challenged as to the mode in which they exercise their
particular functions ; but, at the same time, from the
intimate relation I bear towards Mr. Lawley, first, in
respect to my private connection with him, and, secondly,
in respect to his official capacity, and bearing in mind tho
peculiar circumstances by which my right hon. friend (Sir
G. Grey) has become nominally responsible for this ap-
pointment, I feel that sometiing is due to him also. But
a few weeks have elapsed since my right hon. friend has
assumed his present office, having previou.ly occupied the
position of an independent member of this house, and I
think the house will believe that, although my right. hon.
friend has challenged that responsibility, yet the greater
part of it belongs to those who are not ostensibly the
authors of it. I am quite sure that the Duke of Newcastle
would be the last man to desire that any one should re-
lieve him from one grain or tittle of that responsibility
which attaches to his duty. The origin of that appoint-
ment arose from a suggestion made to the Duke of New-
castle, not by Mr. Lawley, nor by any of his family ; but
those who made the suggestion did so from a personal
knowledge of that gentleman and upon public grounds,
and from a conviction that the appointment was one that
would be beneficial to the public, I need not conceal the
fact that the Duke of Newcastle did not determine upon
that appointment without reference to me, and he
called upon me to give my advice' as to whether
Mr. Lawley was or WAS not fit for the appointment.
Between my noble friend the Duke of Newcastle and my-
self the responsibility for the appointment is shared, my
noble friend having been the official author of the proposal,
and I having been the principal witness to whom he re-
ferred. I cannot consent—and this is the main cause of
my rising—to leave the question on the footing on which it
has been placed by my hon. friend who has just sat down.
I agree in all that my hon. friend said with regard to colo-
nial governors. I might even agree with him—although,
perhaps, in this we should find few persons disposed to ac-
company us—in thinking that if the people of South Aus-
tralia should desire to recommend their own governors to
the home Government, it would be a wise act to gratify
their wishes. It is, however, enough for me to point out
on this occasion that the people of South Australia have
expressed no such wish, and, indeed, it is my belief—and I
am bound to declare it—that at this moment it is the desire ,
of the people of the colonies to receive their governors,
selected as they best may be, at the discretion of the Mi-
nisters of the Crown from among qualified persons in this
country. It having been said that Mr. Lawley's appoint-
ment was on public grounds an improper one, and dis-
creditable to the Government which made it, I wish to ad-
dress myself briefly to the consideration of this part of the
question. The hon. member for Manchester r?presents
Mr. Lawley as totally unknown in this house—the hon.
member said that my hon. friend was not even known by
sight to him and other members. Why was he unknown?
I say it was impossible for Mr. Lawley, as long as he bold
the office of private secretary to the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer, to acquire that degree of distinction in this house
to which his abilities and knowledge fairly entitle him. My
right hon. friend near me (Sir C. Wood) and the right
hon. gentleman opposite (Mr. Disraeli), both of whom have
held the office which I have now the honour to fill, will, I
am sure, confirm my statement that the duties of the pri-
vate secretary to the Chancellor of the Exchequer are not
analogous to those of private secretaries to other Ministers,
but are in a great measure official and departmental duties
which devolve on him owing to the anomalous position of
the Chancellor of the Exchequer, whose place is more out-
side than inside the Treasury with respect to the great bulk
of his duties, and who is therefore compelled to make his
private secretary the medium of the most important commu-
nications with the Board of Inland Revenue, the Board of
Customs, the Bank, and other great bodies. I can tell the
hon. member for Manchester that, although Mr. Lawley has
not, for the reasons I have stated, had the opportunity of-
quiring distinction, ard of making himself known in( this
during
house, ho has undergone more labour for the
public
ige
the last and the present session, and has acquired snoreexper4ence in public of a difficult and important character,
than falls to the lot of most of those who sit here for,l will
not say one or two, but for five, six, or even ten
ses-
sions. I make this statement on the strength of my own
official experience. It is all very well to say that we should
not appoint young and unknown mon to be governors of
colonies. That is sound doctrine, but those who call upon
the Government to adopt it as the invariable rule of their
conduct should consider what we offer to colonial gover-
nors, and what we ask them to do. We ask them to ex-
patriate thernselves—we ask them to assume a place in
society which is often comparatively rude, and in a cli-
mate probably unhealthy—we ask them
heavy anti serious risks, that of unpopularity among others
—we expose them to be recalled at the variable caprice of
a colonial secretary, who is not bound to assign any rea-
son for his conduct—and for all this we offer them remu-
neration which in, in most instances, miserably low.
Under these circumstances, you come forward and say, as
the hon. member for Manchester does, " It is the duty of
the Government to select only well-known men." you
may ask well-known men, but well-known men will not
go. (A laugh.) There is not a person who has had anything
to do with the making of colonial appointments who is not
aware of Vie extreme difficulty of finding competent per- .

sons who will accept them, and consequently the only re-
source of a colonial secretary is to fall back upon men who
are not well-known, but who, he feels assured, from the
opportunity he has had of estimating their talents, will
hereafter be well known, and will discharge their duties
with propriety. This is no new doctrine. Who are the
men now most distinguished as governors of colonies?
There may be rare cases—such as that of Sir Charles Met-
calfe, who, being one of the most heroic and disinterested
spirits that ever existed, disregarded all considerations of
personal advantage, and proceeded at once to the post
which he was invited to fill—in which we have the good
fortune to obtain well-known men for colonial governors,
but in the majority of instances the reverse is the case.
Sir W. Denison has been mentioned to-night as having
been appointed Governor of New South Wales. Was he
ever known in political life ? No ; he was an able engineer.
(Hear, from Sir J. Pakington.) Ido not know what the
right hon. gentleman means by that cheer ; but I think I
van justified in referring to the case when it is made a
charge against the Government that they have appointed
a governor of a colony who was totally inexperienced in
public affairs. Sir W. Denison is now well known, and
has earned his promotion. This is one case, and it repre-
sents the general rule. If you condemn the appoints
ment of Mr. Lawley because he is inexperienced and
young, what do you say to the appointment of Lord
Elgin ? I refer to Lord Elgin because he is one of the most
distinguished and successful among colonial governors,
and has recently been engaged in negotiations of a most
difficult description, in the management of which he has
gained the. highest honour. When he was appointed
Lord Elgin was, I believe, of precisely the same age as my
hon. friend Mr. Lawley. Now, compare the cases. Mr.
Lawley was appointed Governor of South Australia, with
a population of between 40,000 and 50,000 ; Lord Elgin
was appointed Governor of Jamaica, in the agonies of its
struggles consequent on the Emancipation Act, with a
population of between 400,000 and 500,000. Mr. Lawley
was appointed after two years of arduous service in the
Exchequer and this house ; Lord Elgin was appointed after
only six weeks' experience in this house, in the course of
which he undoubtedly had the opportunity of proving his
ability by a speech he made. (Hear, hear.) But then it
must be recollected that the ability of Mr. Lawley is not
called in question ; it is only his inexperience in public
affairs which is objected to. Take the case of Lord Harris,
which has also been referred to. The hon. member who
made the reference spoke of his lordship in depreciatory
terms, saying that he was an amiable man in infirm health,
but totally inexperienced and unknown. Lord Harris
was in bad health ; he had gone to the West Indies
in the hope of recruiting it. It is true, also, that he
was inexperienced in public affairs, but my private
knowledge of him convinced me that he was able to
serve his country with ability, and therefore I offered
him the appointment, which he accepted, and in which
ho has covered himself with honour. Thisis the view
of the case which I have felt it my duty to lay before the
House in justification not only to the present Govern-
ment, but all Governments, With respect to the pre-
sent case, I am bound to say, in justice to the Duke of
Newcastle and my right hon. friend the Secretary for the
Colonies, that, until within the last 21 hours, I saw no
reason to regret having given my testimony that in most
respects Mr. Lawley was einieentlyand admirably qualified
for the post to which he was appointed. Again, I thank
the house for the kind manner in which this case has been
dealt with, and I hope that all who hear me share in the
opinion, that if Mr. Lawley is chargeable with great im-
prudence, not the slightest taint of pecuniary corruption
or serious error rests upon him. Under these circumstances,
I trust that the door of hope will not be barred against
him, or his future career in life stopped. (Hear, hear.)
May the kindness of the house, evinced in the forbearance
and gentleness with which they have approached this
question, encourage my hon. friend to attempt to retrieve
his error by the studious performance of his duties, so
that, at some future period, he may re-establish his cha-
racter, not only for honour, but judgment. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. V. SMITH thought the reduction made in recent
years in the salaries of colonial governors was an injudi-
cious proceeding, but was of opinion that if persons well
known and competent, could not be persuaded to proceed
from this country to fill the office of Colonial governors,
those officers should be selected from among members of
the legislative councils in the colonies. Perhaps, too, it
would bo worth while to try whether good colonial gover-
nors could not be obtained by establishing a system of pro-
motion, and raising governors from small to important
colonies.
The house then waist into a
COMMITTEE OF WAYS AND MEANS.
Mr. WILSON moved the following resolutions :
" 1.
.That towards making good the supply granted to
her Majesty, the sum of 500,0001., or part of the sum in
the Exchequer of the United Great
Kingdomof Britain
and
and Ireland, or remaining to be raised on the sth of July,
1854, to complete the aids granted by Parliament for the
service of the years 1852 and 1853 be applied to the service
of the year 1854.
"2.
.That, towards making good the supply granted to
her Majesty, the sum of 22,322,7431. Os. 11d. be granted
out of the Consolidated Fund.
" 3. That, towards making good the supply granted to
her Majesty, there be issued and applied to the service of
the year 1854 the sum of 149,3421. 15s. ld., being the sur-
plus of ways and means granted for the service of preced-
ing years."
Mr. HUME understood the noble lord the member for the
city of London, when asking the house to grant 3,000,0001.
for the prosecution of the war, to have stated that part of
the money would be employed in subsidising our allies the
Turks. This proved to be a mischievous course when
adopted in the last war, and he warned the Government
against resorting to it now.
Mr. KINNAIRD could not coincide with the hon.
member for Montrose, and hoped the Government would
adopt what he believed to be a very valuable suggestion—
namely, that of employing the natives in a climate ad-
mitted to be unhealthy, and commanded by British officers.
Mr. HUME contended that the return he had moved
for would fully substantiate his statements.
Lord D. STUART approved of the plan suggested of
employing native troops, and instanced the creditable and
efficient service which the native troops of India had ren-
dered in similar circumstances. Ho hoped they were not
going to increase their own army largely. If the war was
likely to be protracted, he hoped they would employ the
I natives of Turkey, believing that the cheapest and most
economical way would be to employ native troops in all
cases officered by British officers.
The house then resumed, and the resolutions were
brought up and reported.
The Militia (Scotland) Bill was read a third tine and
passed.

- The house then went into committee on the Public Re-
venue and Consolidated Fund Charges (No. 2) Bill, Mr.
BOUVERIE in the chair.
The clauses were agreed to, without observation.
On schedule B being proposed,
MAYNOOTH GRANT.
Mr. SPOONER rose to move the amendment of which
he had given notice ; it was not his intention to go into
any details on the question of Maynooth. His views were
already well known. If they viewed it in any other light.
they were only blinding and deceiving themselves. If
the Government thought they were right in continuing
this grant let them prove their sincerity by bringing it
before Parliament annually. The hon. gentleman con-
cluded by moving that "in case the house shall sanction
the principle of removing any charge from the Consolidated
Fund now placed upon it by Act of Parliament, to add to
schedule B: `the president, vice-president, and students
of Maynooth College, and the expenses of the establish-
ment, enacted by Band 9 Vic. c. 25.' "

The CHANCIMLOR of the EXCHEQUER said his
hon. friend had promised not to enter into the the ques-
tion of the Maynooth grant, but he had been rather more
liberal than his promise.

Mr. SPOONR—OnIy a quarter of an hour.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHAQUER had
watched the clock more closely ; and agreeable as his hon.
friend always was, his speech had certainly been in this
case the length of au ordinary sermon. (A laugh.) In the
present case they were merely exercising a reasonable vin-
dication of the privilege of the house in a case which the
House of Lords had altered a financial bill. It was im-
portant, therefore, that they should send up the new mu-
sure in the same form as the one that had preceded it. It
was important when they discussed the question of whether
the grant should be on the Consolidated Fund or on the
votes, that they should do it in a manner and under cir-
cumstances which would show due respect to the feelings
of the people of Ireland. There were other grants for re-
ligious purposes—grants for the Church of England and
the Church of Scotland, and he put it to the house whether
the Maynooth grant was not at least entitled to their seri-
ous consideration as a substantive proposition ;. whether it
should not be considered on the general principle, and not
dealt with by a side blow on a financial measure from
which they had carefully excluded everything on which a
political question could be raised. For these reasons he
hoped the house would summarily reject the motion.
(Hear, hear.) The measure was introduced as one of fiscal
reform, and as such he hoped the house would pus it.
Mr. DISRAELI—I placed on the paper certain amend-
ments to the bill now under consideration, and it is cer-
tainly my own fault that I was not present to move them,
but it is owing to the marvellous rapidity with which
I understand, however, that
the business is transacted.
I shall have an opportunity of introducing them at an-
otherti
sstage.
nmy T h erort amendments
ant th a t
wt
hhel ehhoulseprsehpoeusled.
opinionle emreosttheimp
adopt them, and by so doing they would not, as far as I can
learn, interfere with the passing of the bill by the other house.e
I have not been an inattentive observer of what
nhastakn
the
last session a Parliament. The motion
place in reference to the question in tof hothpre hon.ese
t or
gentle-
man was itself made for the second time. I gave a silent
vote on a previous occasion,
All
of that nature.
con-
tinue to give a silent vote on questionshtforward by independent
but I am not prepared to
these questions were brought
members of Parliament sitting on different sides of the
nt political opinions. Was it
house and holding
'
"This question must be sum-
warily to such questions,
wise for a minister of the Crown to got up and say, with
re
dismissed ;
it is August, Parliament will not be
sitting for six months, and we cannot now entertain a
which has, in a thousand forms, worriedquestion and per-
plexed us before . I have coma to quite a different con-
clusion'
is before us, I think we are bound fairly to meet
to that of the right hon. gentleman. Well, as the
question
it.
I do not
opinion,
want to express any individual
though I must observe that I opposed the motion of Sir R.
Peel with regard to the permanent endowment of May-
nooth. What I want to impress on the house is, that it
cannot be tolerated, with any regard for the public safety,
that session after session the important question of the re-
lations which exist between their Roman Catholic fellow-
subjects and the Protestant constitution of this country
should be left in doubt—that it should remain a question
which every member of Parliament, whatever might be
hie political opinions, might raise to excite the public
mind,
(ffeconstitution
ahi r
.p)oe
fr
the country
look
kot he
unnpt
ory;wholetwo hbnoct course rg silea
calledroafn tpetteihbfeloi
Protestantre
ebiuv si business.
naens
and
religious liberty, and it is because I feel convinced that if
the Government neglect their duty, if isolated and frag-
mentary parts of the question, under these various shapes
and aspects, are brought perpetually forward for public dis-
cussion and Parliamentary debate, the result will be a
heavy blow and great discouragement to civil and religious
liberty—because I see the danger ahead, and it was because
they could not long avoid a course that would lead to such
consequence, that I call upon the Government, not in haste
and precipitation, not in a hurry, not to tell them iu
August what exactly they would do—but I call on the
noble lord, in whom on this subject I at least have great
confidence—l call on him to come forward and say that, on
the part of the administration of this country, he will, at
the earliest opportunity—notwithstanding the smiles and
whispers of the Chancellor of the Exchequer—(laughter)—
that he will come forward and say, ou the part of the Go-
vernment, that they will propose measures that will be
satisfactory to the public mind.
Lord J. RUSSELL—I was certainly somewhat alarmed
till we arrived towards the end of the right hon. gentle-
man's speech, because until he said that it was not aqu?s-
ques-
tion to be considered in the month of August, I thought
he was proposing that in the month of August the Govern
-
meat should introduce a measure to define the whole bear-
ing of the Protestant constitution, and how far the Privi"