The Sun.
London, England, 1838-05-12 00:00:00

TITHE COMMUTATION COMMISSIONERS.

In answer t• a question, Lord J. RUSSELL said the Report of the
Tithe Commutation Commissioners would in a day or two be laid before
the House.

BENEFICES PLURALITIES BILL.
The House then went into Committee on this Bill.
Clauses 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, were agreed to, with amendments.
Clause 53 was agreed to.
Clause 54 was struck out at the suggestion of Lord STANLEY.
Clauses 55 to 66 were agreed to without any amendment.
Clause 67 was postponed.
On clause 68 being proposed,
Dr. NICHOLL said he thought that it was necessary in Weigh
parishes, where the incumbent had not a knowledge of the Welsh
language, that the Bishop should have the power of appointing a
curate conversant with the Welsh language. He trusted, therefore,
that the Noble Lord would make that provision in the present clause.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL thought :he proposition of the Learned
Member would give the Bishop a great power.

After a few words from Mr. ESTCOUTT.T and Sir E. SUGDEN,
Mr. GOULBURN said it appeared to him a penalty was inflicted bythe
clause in two very different cases ; it imposed a penalty -for the zealous
discharge of his duties by a clergyman of a parish, and also for the ineffi-
cient performance by a clergyman of the labours he was called upon to
fulfill.
Lord J. RUSSELL did not think the clause would have the opera-
tion supposed by the Right Hon. Gentleman.

Lord STANLEY thought the clause would have the erect anticipated
by his Right lion. Friend.

After a few further observations the clause with some verbal amend-

events was agreed to.

On clause 69 being put, the first part of which provides that, in pa-
rishes where the population is '2,000 and the amount of the living 4001.
a.year, the incumbent should pay one quarter of his income in support
of a Curate.

Mr. ESTCOURT moved an amendment that the amount of popula-
tion should be raised to 4,000 and the amount of the living to 600/.
After a conversation, in which the amendment was shortly sup-
ported by Mr. Goulburn, Mr. Posey, and another Hon. Member, and
the original clause by Lord John Russell, Mr. Hawes, and Mr. Evans,
The gallery was cleared for a division, but nono took place, it having
been agreed (as far as we were able to understand) that the amount as to
the population should be raised to 3,000, and the amount as to the living
to 5001.
After a few words from Mr. GOULBURN and Lord STANLIZT on the
second part of the clause, which related to the appointment of an
extra Curate by the Bishop of the diocese on the application of the
parishioners,
Lord J. RUSSELL had originally been of opinion that it would have
been better to have divided this clause into two, and he would now post-
pone this second part of it for further consideration hereafter.

The first part of the clause was then agreed to as amended.
The 70th elauie was also ordered to stand part of the Bill.
On clause 72 being put,
Mr. GOULBURN objected to that part of the clause which rendered
it obligatory on incumbents to preach two sermons every Sunday, be-
cause he thought it wag a matter which should be left in their diser,
tion, or at all events in tho discretion of the Bishop of the diocese.

Therefore he must move the omission of the words •• two sermons, or a
lecture and a sermon, as to the Bishop of the diocese shall seem meet."
Lord J. RUSSELL said that the Right Hon. Gentleman had omitted
to notice the previous part of the clause, which empowered the Bishop
to decide whether two sermons should be preached in a parish or not.
After a short conversation the amendment was withdrawn, and the
clause was agreed to.

Clauses down to 86 inclusive were then agraed to, with some verbal
amendments.

Clauses 87 and 83 were agreed to.
Sir It. INGLIS thought it a hardship that the incumbent should be
obliged to give six months' notice of dismissal to his Curate. He thought
he should hare the power of residing on his living whenaver he wished
to do so.

Mr. EAST moved that a proviso be inserted to the efßct that the in.
cumbent wishing to return to his benefice should apply to the Bishop,
and in case of refusal, to the Archbishop, who should be empowered to
direct the Bishop to grant permission.
Lord J. RUSSELL thought it very advisable that some provision
should be made for this matter, but thought that none could be better
than granting a gqiezral power to the Bishop.
Mr. IiLSTCOURT moved that three months be inserted instead of six.
After some conversation, the proviso and Mr. Estcourt's amendment
were added to the clause, which, as thus amended, was agreed to.
Clauses 89, 90, 91, 92, and 93 were agreed to.
Causes up to 116 were then agreed to, as were also the remaining
clauses of the Bill.

The postponed clauses were then taken.
Clauses 19, 20, and 21 were adopted with verbal alterations.
On clause 22 being proposed,

_ .
Mr. COU RTENEY stated several cases in which considerable hardships
might be inflicted on innocent panics, and joint-stock property uncon-
sciously sacrificed by those concerned in the management of clerical pro_
perty ; and proposed, as an amendment, the insertion of words to guard
against those evils, by the permission to buy and sell under certain re.
strictions.

After a few words from the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Sir Edward
Sugden, and Mr. Scarlett, the amendment was adopted.
Colonel IMBTHORP proposed a new clause, to the effect that where
a Clergyman had resided up to the time of his decease on his glebe, his
widow might continue to reside in the glebe.house for three months,
and enjoy the use of the garden, farm, &c.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL opposed the motion.
After a short conversation a division took place, and there appeared—
For the motion
Against it
Majority against it --59
SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) BILL

On our admission to the gallery we found
Mr. WALLACE moving an amendment on the second reading of the
Bill, that a Committee be appointed to inquire into the state of the
parochial schools in Scotland, and to report, before a grant of public
money is made for the endowment of additional schools.
Mr. WYSE sesonsled the amendment.

Tho CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER gala that there never
was a greater mistake than to suppose the grant intended for the High-
lands of Scotland was influenced by any party or religious feeling. He
hoped that no further difficulties would be thrown in the way of a Bill
which came to the House recommended by all the Highland proprietors.
Mr. GILLON contended that this was an admirable occasion for
introducing a new system of schools into Scotland. The parochial sys-
tem was a most vicious one, and resulted in the children being badly
educated. They were about to confirm a system which was defective,
and if the Hon. Member for Greenock would persist in his amendment
he would vote with him ; if not, he would move that this Bill be read
a second time this day six months.

Mr. COLQUHOUN did not see why the parochial schools of Scot-
land should not receive the same assistance as the national schools of
England did, from a parliamentary grant. lie said he should be glad
to know why the sum of 6,0001., promised by the Government in May,
1836, was not yet paid to the Committee of the General Assembly ?
They had made repeated applications, but had yet received nothing.
The CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQUER had no desire to shrink
ttco mm they could
ion was
from the pledge be had given. The Government had applied to the
anyf
the.
particular
schools
apply Church
this Commission
money
as theyo f Scotland
promised,
found the pointthat
that whether
extinct, and they at last found themselves obliged to bring in this Bill
with respect to any grant to the schools of Scotland.
Mr. LANGDALE would vote for the second reading, bet would
move an amendment in Committee that in those parishes in which there
shouldave h bee ir a h
majorityshare
a
religion they should
h
Sir G. CLERK would vote for the second reading gr the Bill.
ts i
Mr. P. HOWARD would support the amendment
Mr. WALLACE ultimately withdrew his amendment, on the under-
standing that the Chancellor of the Exchequer would grant a Select
Committee to which the whole subject should be referred.
Mr. GILLON then moved that the Bill be read
a second time that
day six months.
The House then divided, and the numbers were..,,

For the second reading ............... 79
Against it .................. 12
Majority ...............................
The Bill was accordingly read a second time and ordered to be com-
mitted.
The Sheriff,' Courts (Scotland) Bill was read a third time and passed.
The International Copyright Bill was read a secoud
e and ordered
to be committed on Monday.
FREEMAN'S ADMISSION BILL.
•

misTshioenOuridllerhoafvitnhge
been Day froeradh t, e second reading of the Freeman. Ad.
Mr. BROTHERTON moved the adjournment of the House.
Colonel SIBTHORP complained that the Hon. Member for Salfbrd
passed measures which were agreeable to his political feelings, but op-
posed those that were net by motions like the present.
After some other observations from Mr. Williams, Mr, Ilutt, Mr.
Baines, and some other Hon. Gentlemen, the House divided, not on the
motion for adjournment, as it turned out that that had not been se-
conded, but on the question of the second reading. The numbers
were_
For the second reading
Against it
Majority for the second reading
The 25
Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be committed on
WeJnesday.