The Sun.
London, England, 1853-08-05 00:00:00

was, in the first instance, a reduction of one fourth, and
in the next, of one-half of the fees.

Mr. CHEETHAM was of opinion that the salaries to
the law officers of the Crown ought to be paid out of the
Consolidated Fund.

The vote was then agreed to.
On the motion that 70,0001. be granted to her Majesty
for the works of the new houses of Parliament, in the pre-
sent year,

Colonel SIBTHORP opposed the vote on the ground of
the interminable expense to the country of those works.
Mr. HUME said he had two years ago complained of
those yearly demands for money for the works of the new
houses of Parliament. Was there ever to be an end of
those expenses? He thought there was far more expense
incurred in the prosecution of the houses than necessary.
Looking at the ponderous locks that were placed on the
doors, they reminded him of those of the time of Tubal
Cain. (Laughter.) In his (Mr. Hume's) opinion, the
houses of Parliament would never be finished, and he
wished that an estimate were furnished of what the proba-
ble amount of expense would in future be.
Sir W. MOLESWORTH would endeavour to obtain
such an estimate ; and in future, he begged to state that
the vote for the 'louses of Parliament would be founded
upon the actual estimate, which would be furnished for
the satisfaction of the country.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY said the question before the
committee was a very important one. Three years ago it
turned out that the actual sum expended had come to
707,0001. A question was then put, what the amount for
completing the houses would be? and Mr. Barry, in reply
said, he could not tell. (Laughter.) He was then asked
if it would amount to 100,000/. ? and he answered he
could not say. He was then asked, if half a million would
do? and he replied, it might. (Laughter.) Well, since
that time, the amount expended on those works amounted
to 16,0001. What had they done this year? Why, they
voted 110,0001. for the works. The question for the com-
mittee was, how were they to effect some control over the
expenditure for the works for the future ? (Hear, hear.)
He found an outstanding debt of 86,0001. in the estimates,
and one of the parties engaged in executing those works
said he would not be paid unless 100,0001. a year were ex-
pended on the works of the houses. It was quite clear
that if they said a million of money would cover the ex-
penses, that they would not get out of the business under
two millions. He thouoht that some steps should be taken
to insure the country that the proper estimates should be
laid before the house. (Hear, hear.)

Sir W. MOLESWORTH explained that the very large
amount of outstanding account for the new houses was
occasioned by the necessity of having the works measured
before paid for, a process which had not been gone through.
The debt had been based upon work which did not come
into the financial year. The votes would, however, in
future be based upon the estimates of the work to be ex-
ecuted in the financial year, and would be paid in that
year.
Mr. MACARTNEY suggested they should call on Sir
Chas. Barry to give an estimate of the further expenses
that would be required. The hon. member next called
attention to the defective state of the arrangements for
lighting the house.
Lord SEYMOUR thought the statement of the first
Commissioner of the Board of Works was very satisfactory.
He was of opinion, however, that the time was come when
the amount of remuneration to Sir Charles Barry should
be settled, (Hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
agreed with the noble lord that the time had already
elapsed when the remuneration to Sir Charles Barry should
be settled. He could assure them that during the recess
they would endeavour to obtain a bond fide estimate of the
further expenses that would be required. (Hear.)
Mr. BOWYER called attention to the very defective
state of the ventilation of the house. More attention had
been paid to make the windows of an ornamental cha-
racter than to make them, by opening, fit for the purposes
of ventilation. (Hear.)
Mr. BASS said he found now that they had got 21
orders of the day to go through, and believed several of
them would create a good deal of discussion. If the com-
mittee agreed with him he would move that the chairman
should report progress. (No, no.) He had no objection
to finish the present vote. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. BRIGHT said he would be glad to know whether
there was any plan of this building, because if they had
one they might be able to come to some conclusion as to
the time when the expenditure should cease.
Sir DENHAM NORREYS wished to observe, that
he thought it would be a great convenience if the clock
tower were finished without any more unnecessary delay.
Lord CLAUDE HAMILTON wished to know whether
the right hon. gentleman could give any possible estimate
of the loss that had accrued to the public by the changes
that had been made to the building. The noble lord then
alluded to the various changes that had been made in the
roof and windows of the chamber they now occupied, and
other alterations for the purpose of hearing.
Sir W. MOLESWORTH said it was impossible to
give such an estimate.
Mr. SPOONER said no ventilation could be better
carried out than the ventilation of the house they last
occupied.
Mr. HUME wished to know, now that Dr. Reid was
discharged, who had charge of the lighting and ventilation
of the house ?

Sir W. MOLESWORTH said that nothing was done
with regard to the lighting and ventilation of the house
without consulting Mr. Locke and Mr. Stevenson.
After a few words from Mr. BALL,
Mr. BOWYER wished a plain answer to his question,
whether the windows were to be opened or not ; or
whether, if not, it would be legal for hon. members to
break the windows with those extraordinary beasts upon
them, in order to get fresh air.
Sir D. NORREYS protested against the suggestion of
the lighting being placed under Mr. Gurney. The whole
matter ought to be placed under one responsible person, and
had been so placed under Mr. Meeson. All he asked was
that the lighting and ventilation should be placed under
the same person.
Mr. MALINS believed ho had spent as much time in the
house during the last seven months as any one member iu
it, and he felt bound to say that it was the best ventilated
apartment he had ever been in. He thought it but justice
to the gentlemen entrusted with it to say so much.
Mr. B. OSBORNE said the statement of the First Com-
missioner of Works, that nothing was done to the lighting
without the consent of the Lighting Committee, was not
Correct. There had been lately 34 lights placed over the
back benches to enable the whippers-in to see members on
them. These lights were of the most extraordinary kind,
fitterfor Vauxhall than elsewhere. The committee knew no-
thing of that, and now the honourable member for Honi-
ton had told him that such was the heat of the lights on
the ceiling, that they would in a short time char the real
roof, and in a short time they would have to put up
another. The health of members was injured by it, and
he feared they would lose many of their most valuable
members, from the shocking way in which the light and
ventilation was managed.
Sir W. MOLESWORTH said the light over the back
seats had been ordered by the Speaker, who found that
members were occasionally disorderly—(laughter)—and
wished to see them. (Renewed laughter.)
After some further conversation, the Chairman reported
progress, and obtained leave to sit again.