The Sun.
London, England, 1853-05-20 00:00:00

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which he proposed that the Boa, , Works should niider.
take the repairs of the college as aey undertook tho repaira
of other public buildings, and that the cost for its rupairot
should be included in the annual estimate of the public
workg. (Hear, hear.)
yolir W. VERNER begged to call attention to the oath
t t was taken by Roman Catholic priests educated in the
lege of Maynooth before they were appointed to pa-
rishes. He thought it was the duty of the Government to
institute an inquiry into that oath. It was endeavoured
to be set aside on more occasions than one, even by the
prelates of the Roman Catholic Church, who gave evidence
before Parliamentary committees. They endeavoured to
make it appear that there was no such oath taken by the
Roman Catholic clergy except the oath of allegiance. That
was perfectly right; it was an oath of allegiance, but to
whom? To the Pope of Rome, and not to Queen Victoria
—(divide)—to support the canons and councils, and to put
aside altogether the Scriptures. (Hear, hear.) When
they transported Ribbonmen for taking an illegal oath,
why should they allow Roman Catholic priests to take the
same oath to all intents and purposes. (Divide.) He
maintained that the oath taken by the Ribbonmen in Ire-

land was the oath taken by the Roman Catholic priests.
(Divide.) Were those proper parsons to have the manage-
ment of the education of the children of the country?
said that the person who took that oath was as deserving
of punishment and transportation as any Ribbonman.
(Cries of " Divide.")
Sir J. WALMSLEY supported the vote.
Mr. LUCAS was quite prepared, whenever the question
came before the house, to vote against all endowments
whatever ; but this was not the only item in the present
votes for religious endowments. It was unfair to pick out
one item that happened to be obnoxious to certain parties
in the house and not to pick out other items of a similar
kind. On looking to page 18, it would be seen that there
was a vote of 381. to be proposed for repairs of the chap-
lain's house in Dublin Castle, and 291. for furniture and
various other items of the same description.
Mr. HADFIELD objected to State endowments for any
denomination whatever, because it was unfair that taxes
should be raised from the people to pay for the support of
religious principles of which they do not approve. (Hear.)
Sir J. SHELLEY did not go a single inch with the hon.
member for North Warwickshire in the principles which
he had been in the habit of propounding in the house, but, on
broad principle of being opposed to all religious endow-
ments from the public purse, he would vote for the propo-
sition of the hon. member. The hon. member for Meath,
instead of continually telling them what he would do,
should put his intentions into a form that had something
like reality, and which would show that he really was
ready to fight with them against all religious endowments.
Mr. LUCAS, in reply to the hon. baronet, begged to say
there was a notice put on the paper by. the hon. member
for Mayo, for the 30th of this month for a select commit-
tee to inquire into the subject of religious equality, and it
was intended to embrace all questions of endowments.
(Hear.) When it was said the Dissenters feared all the
contamination-of endowments, he should state that he had
received a letter from the Synod of Ulster on the subject
of the Irish Regium Donum, and they appealed to him
and the other members of the house, to whom the docu-
ment was also addressed, to give their support to the Irish
Regium Donum:
Mr. W. J. FOX considered that they were bound when-
ever they could to oppose any vote of this description.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS observed that there were three or
four other items in the votes that were open to the same
othbejehootino.nm, aenmd he b
ber for
rgNgeL to add the
North
Warwicna to the
kshire
.propositionTherewasfoorf
Irishtown church a sum of 371. 195.; chaplain's house in
Dublin Castle, 771.; and the royal chapel and apartments
in basement, 1411. 6s. Bd.; making a total of 2561. 58. 8d„
There was a charge also for chaplains, both Catholic and
Protestant, in the hospital of Kilmainham ; but he did
not wish to withdraw the means of religious consolation
from the poor pensioners. He begged to proposed, that in
addition to the vote of 1,2351. 13s. for Maynooth, the sum.
of 2561. ss. Bd. should be also disallowed, making together
1,4911. 18s. Bd.
The committee divided—
For the amendment 43
Against it BO
Majority —37
On the amendment of Mr. Spooner being again put.
Lord J. RUSSELL wished to put it to those hon. mem-
bers who had voted in the last division on the principle of
opposing all religious endowments, whether the question
stood now in the same position as it did before the amend-
ment of the hon. member for Lambeth. That amendment
tested the feeling of the house on the question of religious
endowments ; and as the house had refused to take away
all votes for religious purposes, and as the question of
principle was thus decided, he wished to put it to hon.
members whether they would single out one endowment
belonging to that denomination in Ireland which obtained
the least of public support, and deprive it alone of its share
of the public money. (Hear.) He hoped hon. members
would see that the question was totally altered now, and
that the question was not whether they would vote
against religions endowments generally, but whether they
would single out one denomination for refusal. (Hear.)
Mr. MIALL thought the question was only so far al-
tered that in the former case a great many interests were
combined to carry the vote, and that in the present case,
while the same principle was at stake, they would only
have one interest to contend against. Therefore, as ho and
his friends were not able to carry their principle wholesale,
he advised them to carry it by detail.
Mr. SPOONER protested against the vote he had given
in the last division being taken as a vote against all religious
endowments. (Laughter.) Honourable gentlemen might
laugh as much as they pleased, but he had repeatedly
sought for explanations as to the nature of the amendment,
and could get none, except that an honourable gentleman
proposed to make the vote 2001. less than he had himself
proposed. (Laughter.)
Sir J. SHELLEY contended that the position of the
question was not at all altered by the last vote.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL reiterated his former opinion,
after which the committee divided, when there appeared—
For the amendment
Against it 54
Majority against the grant
The following estimates were then voted without com-
ment :

11,6451. for Kingstown harbour.
91,1401. for the salaries and expenses of the two houses
of Parliament.
54,0451. for the salaries and expenses of the Treasury
department.
21,100/. for the Home-office.
69,4111. for the Foreign-office.
39,175/. for the Colonial-office.
71,5001. for the Privy Council and Board of Trade.
2,7001. for the office of the Lord Privy Seal.
23,7001. for the Paymaster-General's departmext.
6,3361. for the Comptroller-General of the Exchequer.
17,282/. for the Commissioners of Works.
22,3291. for the department of Woods and Forests.
2,7771. for the State Paper-office.
On the question that 3,3681. be voted for the Ecclesias-
tical Commissioners.
Mr. WILLIAMS objected, on the ground that these
commissioners were appointed for the benefit of the Church,
and ought to be paid out pf the Church's revenues, which
were amply sufficient for the purpose.
The committee divided, when there appeared—
For the grant
63
Against it
The next votes
Majo
rity for the grant —l9
were-
-214,494/. for the Poor-law Commission.
49,5311. for the service of the Mint.
12,2701. for the public records.
15,0501. for inspectors of factories and mines.
On the vote of 1,7001. for offices in Scotland,
Mr. KINNAIRD asked whether there was any prospect
of these items soon disappearing from the estimates ?
Mr. WILSON was understood to say that ho could hold
out no hope of that.
Mr. WILLIAMS said the sum voted for horse racing in
Scotland was very small—only 2001. ; but he would cer-
tainly oppose the much larger sums that wore voted for
Ireland.
Mr..APSLEY PELLATT thought if the principle was
objectionable in the one case it was equally so in the other,
and he would therefore move that the vote be reduced by
the amount for those plates.
Sir J. SHELLEY hoped the hon. member would not
persevere in his motion, as there was no out-door amuse-
ment for the working classes that was so much resorted to
as horse-racing.
The gallery was then cleared for a division, but none
took place, and the vote was agreed to.
A vote of 6,4241. was then proposed, to defray the charge
of salaries for the officers and attendants of the Lord-
Lieutenant of Ireland.
Sir J. SHELLEY asked whether there was any inten-
tion on the part of the Government to introduce a bill for
the abolition of the office of Lord-Lieutenant ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he was
not able to state that it was the intention of tho Govern-
menteto sameabolish
timtehhe
his honourable
Lord-Lieutenanteoufrebl
efriend
that this vote was necessary for the present continaanco of
At the would understand
that office. reland.

Colonel DUNNE characterised the answer of the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer as unsatisfactory and evasive.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was not
aware how the answer he gave failed in point of frankness.
If the hon. gentleman would put his question in an
amended shape, ho would endeavour to shape his answer
to it. The question being, whether there was any plan
for the abolition of the office of the Lord-Lieutenant, he
(the Chancellor of the Exchequer) stated that no plan of
the kind had been brought under the consideration of the
Government since it was formed. There might be great
evasiveness in that answer, but that was the only answer
he was able to give. (Hear, hear.)
Colonel DUNNE asked the right honourable gentleman
if he was aware of any intention on the part of the Govern-
ment to abolish the office of Lord-Lieutenant ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—I am not
aware of any such intention. (A laugh.)
viz., 1841. 12s. Bd.,
Mr. W. WILLIAMS proposed, as an amendment, to
uvotttelobwyml,f7osrBiihleBsclia°clpla"in to Dublin Castle,
for fifteen Queen's Plates to be run for
in Ireland.
o.ouugnhdt that it
eitbowniase
ald'n'il'Mmdicirl-hn.:H7lhw4EaitN.sh6iCF:Fl" 2Yd.defended. the vote on the ground of its
tending to afford recreation to the people of Ireland, of
OUR submitted, it would be incon-
mw hamki cri hn. g
.ImvtalhnseyE
no
ofa
ptt
iphooonsi thorn
dg siohnoetd
vamo
tuseuc,
mho
ni
which
thhnieecehg
rd
vs.ote, when the committee had just
nrr. i. t vDta
oti ear
e Bf
uy individual
eEhyi
sm
sbiyskiteP
sanctioned a vote for a similar pu
that this was an unfortunate time bill? in Scotland, and
privo the people of Ireland of the w ich to seek to de-
the object of the grant to enco recreation which it was
The amendment was n
are among them.
against 31; and the vote Wags ed,
~,,,, on a division, by 92
Votes of 17,134/, for the !reed
to,
offices of the chief se e salaries and expenses of the
Ireland in Dublin and le,
retary to the Lord-Lieutenant of
charge of salaries of the I,!ndon, and of 7,4721. to defray the
were agreed to withou dia
ymaster of Civil Services Office,
On a vote of 30,153/. b Elcussion.
and expenses of the being proposed, to pay tho salaries
Board of Public Works in Ireland.
Colonel DUNNE alluded to
tees on drainage, the reports of the commit-
nage, and arterial drainage, in Ireland, and to
the fact that in
twelve cases of arterial drainage which
had been attempted by the Government in that part of the
kingdom the estimated cost had been greatly exceeded.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, if it
was the wish of the gallant colonel that the committee
should at that moment enter incidentally and fully into
the question he had referred to, he could only assure hint
it was one which had not escaped the attention of the Go-
vernment, and one which they were ready to go thoroughly
into at the earliest opportunity.
The vote was then agreed to.
On its being proposed that 32,0001. be granted to defray
" the charge of her Majesty's foreign and other secret ser-
vices,"
Mr. WISE said he could not cenceive for what purpose
that secret service money was required.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS said he had opposed this vote for a
number of years, and be was glad to see a considerable