The Sun.
London, England, 1853-05-06 00:00:00

interrupt a man in the middle of a sentence—(loud laugh-
ter)—and put a meaning on his words which every one
who hears me know they do not bear. (Hear.) I repeat,
that he was one of a party 60 or 70 strong (No, 50 !
Laughter.) Well, what does it matter whether it was 50
or 60 ? but a party pledged to oppose every Government—
(hear, hear)—which did not support those measures which
he and a very large majority of his countrymen deemed
essential to the interests of his country. (Hear, hear.) I
ask the house to remember what I suggested, that corrup-
tion may be by office as well as by a pecuniary bribe.
(Hear, hear.) Let us see whether we cannot find a mean-
ing for those words which impute no personal dishonour
to my honourable friends opposite, in any sense in which
we understand dishonour (hear, hear, and laughter)
—but which may be so in the sense which my honoura-
ble friend the member for New Ross has fitly described
as a sort of corruption practised in the days of Wal-
pole and Pelham. (Hear, hear, hear, and loud cries
of " Divide !") At the early part of the session,• when
the right hon. gentleman the member for Buckinghamshire
was in office, that party, 50 or 60 strong— (a laugh)—went
together as one man into the lobby and overthrew the
Government. (Laughter.) After the right hon. gentle-
men had done what I shall always think was a statesman-
like act—(laughter)—sent, for calm consideration upstairs,
a billon which the hearts of the people of Ireland were
fixed-(hear, hear)—the noble lord at the head of the
Government, I believe the next day, in the House of
Lords, having disavowed that conduct, and protested that,
whatever the report of the committee might be, he and his
Government would oppose that bill, we went into the
lobby 50 or 60 strong. The Government was changed, and
office was given to some members of that party. (Hear.)
I am one of those who think, and I shall never have the
least hesitation in avowing it, because I do not share in
many of the opinions of my hon. friend the member for
New Ross, and do not take so determined a view of Irish
politics as he may naturally do—but I am one of those
who think that, two hon. gentlemen of that party having
taken office—being gentlemen of most unexceptionable
character in public and in private life—(hear, hear)—of
very considerable ability—who had distinguished them
selves on this side of the house in opposition to the noble
lord the member for London when in power—it may at
least be a matter 'of doubt whether the Government did
not, in offering office to these gentlemen, mean an earnest,
a token of reconciliation, to the Irish Catholic represen-

tives in this house ; but that was not the view taken of it
in Ireland, or by my hon. friend the member for New
Ross—(hear)—and I have not the least doubt, though I
have had no communication with him on the subject,
that when he talked of corruption being practised under
his own eyes since he had had a seat in Parliament, he
meant that hon. members of that house had been induced
to abandon the course they had taken, and had declared
their determination to follow, and that the Government
had broken up the party purposely determined to break
its strength in this house, by use of those means which
were used in the days of Walpole and Pelham, by giving
office to those honourable members. (Hear, hear.) I
have certainly heard the office of Solicitor-General spoken
of as an inferior office; but we do not generally consider
it such. (A laugh.) Neither do I think it quite
right to talk of a Lord of the Treasury as very inferior;
and I say it with no disrespect to my hon. friend the late
member for Carlow, a most respectable gentleman, and a
member of an honourable profession, but it was high pro-
motion to him to be appointed a Lord of the Treasury.
(Hear, hear.) Then, let me ask whether the words used
by my hon. friend the member for New Ross were used in
the offensive sense some gentlemen seemed to think? No
one supposes that either of those hon. gentlemen had re-
ceived a bribe under the eyes of my hon. friend, and I
think we have been somewhat hasty in judging my hon.
friend so severely, and that it is possible, after all, when
the explanation is given, it will be found that what I have
said was not said by my hon. friend, because, having had
angry discussions with the hon. and learned member for
Athlone, and the late hon. member for Carlow, he would
be reluctant to mention their names in that house, and
would not impute dishonourable conduct to them, which
their friends knew was not the case. (Hear, hear.) You
cannot exactly put yourselves in the position and feel in
the same manner as those felt who, having the deepest in-
terest in the happiness of their country, thought the best
way to promote it was to maintain a strong compact party
in this house. (Hear, hear.) Those who so felt have been
greatly disappointed at the course adopted by some hon.
members of that party, as far as we know, without any
pledge or assurance that those measures would be taken
which we all deemed essential to the well-being and pros-
perity of Ireland.
Sir G. GREY—I wish to call the attention of the house
to the precise question before it. The only question you
have had put from the chair is that which was submitted
to you by the right hon. and learned Recorder of London
—that the consideration of this subject should be adjourned
until this day at 4 o'clock. No other course has been sug-
gested in the shape of a motion, and I think the house will
act wisely in agreeing to that proposition. (Hear, hear.)
I think a few hours' reflection will induce the hon. member
for New Ross to take that course which—after having
uttered words which I cannot help thinking were uttered
in the heat of debate, and not with deliberation, justly
offensive as I think those words were— (hear)—hon. gen-
tlemen are accustomed to take in this house. (Hear.) He
thought it consistent with the character of the house
that they should allow the suggested interval to elapse
before coming to any decision ; but, in recommending that
course, he was anxious to state that he should not feel him-
self justified in doing so if he felt that the slightest impu-
tation rested on any one of these members to whom the
allusions of the hon member for New Ross had been offen-
sive.

Mr. J. D. FITZGERALD, who rose to speak, but was
met with loud cries of " Agreed," was understood to sup-
port the motion of the right hon. and learned member for
Buteshire (Mr. S. Wortley).
Mr. W. 0. STANLEY did not wish to prolong the de-
bate, but desired to suggest to the house the propriety of
making an addition to the motion before them, to the
effect that the hon. member for New Ross should be de-
sired to attend in his place to-morrow (this day) at four
o'clock.

The motion was then agreed to, with the addition pro-
posed by the hon. member for Chester (Mr. W. 0. Stanley).
The Municipal Corporations Act Amendment Bill and
the Exchequer-bills Bill were read a second time.
The Sales of Bullion Bill passed through committee.
RYE WRIT.

On the order of the day being read for resuming the de-
bate (adjourned from Monday) on the motion for a new
writ for Rye,
Mr. BASS, after presenting a petition against the issue
of the writ, proposed that at so late an hour (past ono
o'clock), the debate be further adjourned.
Mr. WALPOLE thought, that after what had been
stated in the former discussion, the evidence ought to be
in the hands of members before they decided upon the case.
Lord J. RUSSELL agreed in that view. It had been
suggested that corrupt practices, in the way of loans to
the electors, could not be dealt with by the house without
a new act ; he had his doubts whether that was so ; ho also
had his doubts whether any writ should issue again for the
borough of Rye.
After a short conversation, the debate was again ad-
journed.