The Sun.
London, England, 1853-07-08 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS-{YESTERDAY.)
LANDLORD AND TENANT (IRELAND) BILL.
The committ-.e on this bill was then resumed.
Mr. WMATION moved the omission of clause 7,
and after a brief discussion the committee divided, when
there appeared,
For the clause
51
Against it
10

Majority
38
The clause was consequently agreed fo, as was also
clause 8.
Mr. M'MAHON next moved the omis 'on of
clause 9.
After some conversation, the P 'ne nem ent was with-
drawn, and the clause agreed to.
On clause 10,
Captain SCOBELL protested against their being one
law for Ireland and another for England. If the pre-
sence of two magistrates wra considered necessary to
form a quorum at petty session in this country, on
what principle could it be maintained that the same
number was not equally necessary in Ireland.
After a few words from Mr. V. SCULLY, who con-
curred very much with the observations which had fal-
len from Capta'n Scobell,
Sir J. YOUNG said the presence of a second magis-
trate could not always be obtained in Ireland ; and if
the amendment were carried, parties would often le left
without redress for a considerable period.
Mr. V. SCULLY moved that the decision in disputes '
shall be to two or more justices of the peace.
After a brief discussion, the committr a divided, when
there appeared—
For the amendment
Against it

32
.

Majority 23
The amendment was consequently lost.
Mr. R. M. FOX moved the insertion of words to
prevent an appeal in cases in diTute to the lamdloro, or
agent of the estate, or any party interested in it.
The committee divided, when the numbers were—
For the amex lm<_,r
Against it

Majority 34
The amendment was therefore.lost.
The clause was then agreed to.
The other clauses up to 23 inclusive, were then passed.
On clause 24,
Mr. M`MA.HON moved the omis.iion of the last five
lines of the clause, his object being to leave the law as it
now stands in regard to cases of intestacy.
After considerable discussion,
The committee divided, when there appeared—.
For the amendment 4B
Agairst it............ 63

Majority against ......... , ..... ..... 15
The clause was then agreed to.
Clauses up to 32 were agreed to, and the house hav-
ing resumed, the chairman reported progress, and ob-
tained leave to sit again to-morrow at 12 o'clock.
The house then adjourned at 4 until 6 o'clock.
The House resumed at six o'clock, when the presen-
tation of petitions IV? I proceeded va,:th.
RUSSIA AN]) TURICEY.—Mr. LAYARD'S
MOTION.
Mr. LAYARD said—l wi.h to sta' 3 ths t3rms of the
motion of which I have given notice for to-mm row. Tbey
are as follows ,—" That an hirable addle -.1 be pre3entc -I to
her Majosty, humbly to submit to Their Majesty that tb4s
house has heard with deep conerria that tee F"nr r:or of
Russia has annoonced a policy and adopted me.- sures wbieh
threaten the ' it .3,;.ity of the Ottotarn Pulp'. a, and pray-
,-Is he: Majesty *at she w:11 1- 3 IqC; -i i 3 CFr. ,It that the
fullest information on this sub,fezt by laid bafore this house
as soon as is corQistent with the pub'ic se :v.:, I wish
to rsy a few words on a matt :r 1 ;son-.1. to nayesl". The
motion of which I b9.ve given notice was fixci for to-
morrow. I r .sivc 1 a not ayc A rainy aft 'won :row the
noble lord the member for London, arming use to put it off
until Monday. Im as not able to return an answ. • un'. 1
this morning. To my surpr;,-3, I svei in the louse yester-
day without my knowledg.), for I find it stated in the
votes "that Mr. Layard's iroi:on ws s deterred till Mon-
day the llth." Unless some gc )d reason is shown for de-
ferring my motion, I sha'l go on with on 31re day which
has b. au e --..:,51 I for it by he: Alak.rty's Clove erraerit. I
must ray it seems to me scarcely C.4r t bat en it dependent
member should be trealed in this way.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—With re-
ference to what has fallen .- •orn the hon. gentleman, I have
to Pay that I am not able to give him any specific informa-
Lion. Ido not know by whose direction or angle-Ay, the
notice of postponement of tlal motion of the her. gntle-
man was placed'n the pai.ez. I can, howt, ger, assure him
that whatever has been done has 1 3''l done with I.;.:".'ect
" bon zfidrs," and under the imprc -ion that he h,l cm-
sented to the arrangement. My right hop. friend the First
Lord of the Admiralty and myself are bOth in a r :,,it:o n
to state that the arrargemeut had been made with the con-
sent of the hon. gentleman, and whaf3ver hci bc m done
has been done in perfect gad faith, and with no intention
to interfere with the liberty of the ho,. gentleman a i an
independent member of the house.
Mr. LAYARD—I should l'li:-3 t 3 know by whom the
notice of postponement wrs p'- -".3 on the pain., If the
Government will show good reasons for my doing so, I will
postpone my motion anti' Morday.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—I under-
stood the gron-id siat:7l for the postponement was ono
wbich the hon. gentleman bad rc.:ozrised as a legitimate
one, viz., the indisposition of my noble friend the member
for London. I believe it would be inconvenient to him
to come down to the hon-e to-morrow, and that being so,
I thought the ho '. gentlearm bs-1 egr.: :3 t) the postpone..
ment

Mr. LAYARD—I shall not hesitate to put off Ix y
motion until Monday. It is only this that I , =plain of
—that before my answer was re( live i the notice of post-
ponement had been given which has placed mo in a fslso
position.
Ma. DISRAELI—I raw with great bo' 1,1'4 3 ti" .3
ebiege
in the order of the business of the horse, rot having been
informed that the hon. membt.: for Aylr2bury had given
any notice of postponement in the hour) yeaterday, and it
appears to me to be an arrangement of the busine-s of the
house by the Government which requires some explanation
on the part of her Maje-,ty's Mi-=sters. What security
have wo for the orderly conduct of the business of the house
if notices of motion which have be an given are withdrawn
on the part of members who are not themselves present and
who have not given their sanction t a that course? There
is also an alteration in the butiness consequent on the
assumption that the hor. member for Aylesbury had con-
sented to this arrangement; I mean that the committee on
the India Bill should be first on the paper. I understood,.
not tl--eo /rim"' cc ago, that a motion similar to that of the
hon. member for Aykibury hr I been r. iponel at the
request of the Government in r'iother place. The reason
for postponement in that place could not have been the ' SMITHFIELD M.A.REPT
for the removal of Smithfield Market.
irdisposition of the noble load the member for Londe). Sir B. HAIL called attantion to the ac" t:passed
He sai ind ,18g a
(A Yaugh.) I think that r) ti-,9 is a quo 110 n of an impor-
tance which cannot be surpsued, thc:e shorldl ) a clear
othLonton, with this exception,
;:taime Home-Secretary badspproved of a plan submitted to explanation of the matter, and some reason gives ', a both that thye area peorroVoras corporation
was not suffici-
houses by her Majesty's Ministers as to whether the Fast. ently extensive ; in consequence of walla
F,ne m e n t would be for the pub?ic interest and eanverienee. to 70 acres. He understood the co rationwpaar exte
Idc.let(ol
Sir C. WOOD—I may perhaps ha able t a give a mint lon and he N(iisthet(lhto know whether any communication had
let off a large portion of this ground on buildin)gleeases ;
o: this matter, anal ow a Fme apolgy to the hon. menalx •
or Aylesbury. Yesterday government a 1 to the area they proposed
in the iriiele of the day my to allot for marketoe space, and that which they proposed to
noble friend the member fe- Lend la ruit to me and eta' 1
let off.
that be WAS so 63i.0u.1y 'll that ha was obliged to leave
Lord PALMERSTON said no communication on that
subject had been made since he had been at the Home-
town, rad that ho ha I writt :a b t>l© hon. memt cr for The act gave only ore Tower ta the Secretary, of
Aylesbury, stating that it was imp:. -;111 fo -Pmtoha in lactee.—t o sanction, or to refuse to sanction, the site pro-
the house to-moirow, rad acd 'is, h'm to p.atr ,me Fs me- pared for the new market. That sanction nee given, n
tion till Monday, It would obliovly t a very inconvenient further rower of inte:ference we. 3 rezarvcd by the act too
for that motion to be brought on in the at!- nice of my the S:cretaiy of Stat 3. The act pl- -) empowc 7ed the cor-
poration to dispo3e of a portion of the land if it were of a
noble friend. My noble friend then asked me if it would greater extent than was required fo th • '
r err pr :poses. _ _
not be better to bring on the committee on the India Bill. MERCHANT SHIPPING BILL AND PILOTAGE
I came down to the hon') in raarch of the hon. member BILL.
Mr. CAEDWELL, at the request of Mr. ToLLEMACH:,
twin that he would Lot decline to postpone his motion. It
day next.
for Aylesbury, but was unable to find him ; but I felt car- the committees on these bills for 12 o'clock on Tnes-
was, therefoi a, ve.y (le-liable that the e.l:lif. t not:co SUCCESSION DUTY BILL.
Mr. G.
Should be given as to what business would come on to-mor. The house then went into committee on this bill, Coln-
row, and I asked my right hon. friend the Secretary at War meneing with the 46th clause.
to give notice that the committee on the India Bill would cell- After
serf tah ee °1
Exchequer,vat_on iitohwe 11,,,iocllici It ,r,rr... j/eneentlrir,
and hie,
Chan.
come on on Friday, and that the other motion was post-
some verbal .
pored. My groat anxiety was to give the earliest infer- amendments.
But(.l t ook part, the clause e was agreed to with' n(
motion to the house as to what busine.: 3 was I o come on, On clause 48, which empowersbo the commissioners to
The house sat yesterday till within a minute of six o'clock, compelf the production of
POLE tookrl some objections to
parties,
ons to the extensive
and it was practically impossible to give that notice in any mature of the powers there given.
other shape than by putting it on the paper. 11 3 right The CHANCELLOR of the EXerrEeeti
az ER consented
hon. gentleman (Mr. Disraeli) is mistaken in saying that to a modification.
the debate in another placa has been pc3tponc d at the re-
dZirs., MtTLLlNGSmuniments, nal-io
evidences
vnaendnor•et excepting tale
Plroences of title. He referred to
quest of the Government. A member of the Government c:.se3 where injury t a the tor. hai arisen :Dom title
was called on to rty whether he c mid de ay that mi—hief I deeds being produced and P.3
and inconvenience would e asue if that motion was bough The CHANCELLOR of the detectsttsCealir. said that
would on, and on his saying that he cruld not deny but that there heo assenetpd_to the doctrine that they shonld not take
would bo some mischief and inc anvenienca, another mem- t
wercoomMiith. erroduction of any documents except such ax
her of that house asked the noble nwrquis to p ostpono his case for the a,Y or
frequently necessary to make out the
t of duty to be paid, and to show that
motion, to which he con-nted. 1 they were tilthillvi.litil- rajtate right parties. It was invents
not DISRAELI—I wish to ask the hon. member for siblo for them
not toroociueemwenta
Aylesbury whether, if the noble lord the member fel. Lou- , which would show what the rowerarope .-ty oirrithe part don should be recovered on Monday, it is chaly to Ea no- I With regard to arty danger that might arise from the iin-
i spawn of title deeds as t the validity of the title to the
derstocd that ho will bring on his motion.
, estate, he thought the danger was imaginary, because these
Mr. LAYARD.—Most certainly. lam not sum- aged to ' documents would only
come under tbo view. of public
be cognisant of what has taken place in the other house, officers who ware
responsible for the proper discharge of
and unless good reason is given in this house {J3 justg.y. me ' their duties ; and tho experience they had uncle: the in-
; i the eyes of the country in withdrawing my motion, I come tax showed that there was no danger of secrets being
char' bring it on. made known. (Hear.)
I
The subject then dropped. fir G. STRICKLAND strongly object NI to the power
which was given by this clause of obliging a man to take.

POSTAL ARRANGEMENTS.
Mr. WILSON, in nnswe: to rn hon. member, tad that
arrangements had been made mlth the railway companies
for improvin
the postal communicatlou V.th Maeeles-
field and the neighbourhood.
COLONIAL POSTAGE.
In answer to Mr. HuME,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
measure for reduc'n colonial postage hrd been pushed
forward with every pon:ble expedition, and no time
would be lost in c rvirg it into effect, as soon as the
necessary communicat:ons with the colonies had been
completed.

................................................"......
--
sponsibility of refusing the : aid the noble earl °geld I THE A DVERTISEMENT DITTY.
Lord BEAUMONT said if Government took the re- ,
them. it was for them to jut lge.
1 Sir J.- SIT_ELLEY Legged to ask the Chancellor of the
Exchequer whether he could inform the hou-o when the
Lponsibility upon themsets -es their lordships could . reiolutior3 with 'vivre' to the a IverEsement duty would
scarcely inter. ere. It was only on the declaration that :Ls brarsist on, and be b9pd 641; they wound not be post-
they can no risk and that they were prepared for all •
1 pond till so late a r 3ric 1 of the E s' on as I o prevent those
emergencies, that h© shorld ITl:nk of acceding to their 1 :
terest ad in the discer :ion from be'ng present.
propos:.l for passing this Ineaza]re .but having taken I PI
-- -
the respowilility oa thens:;elver, he joled Cu urging his i The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER could
noble fiend not to p Axe 7d int Ws motion. really assure ilia hon. gentleman that there world be no
The Earl of ELLENEORO UGH said he had not the : postponement for r 33tnoleme A's rake; and that was the
same degree of coridence `'s the re -ponsibility of the 1 oriy assurance he tout,
Government that the noble lord had, If d give rs far as postponc:Dent was
would fit lt was impossible, considering the important
out a fleet he should be more r Concerned.
atisfied. Re should throw
business now pendhg be7ore the house, to make it sedond-
c"cial to the public service. on them the Ours of dolng wlaat he thorght was prejn-
sty to the adver:ioment duties, as he could not say on
The b;11 was then read a thi•xl time and passed. what day they would be brought on. No delay, however,
Their 10-xl9hipi then adjourned at ten m;nut7,3 past should take place except what was unavoidable, and ha
seven o clock,
would t.:,lze care that they were not brought on without
'
due notic3.

TURNS .
Sir J. SFIELLREEY then moved ORDERED
for a return of the names
all offieers and other persons who are now employed,
whether temporarily or otherwise, by the Metropolitan
Connnissioners et bowers, setting forth the offices they
have held and now bold, under the commis ioners with
the salaiies paid, the dates of appointmeat, and the Cruties
discharged in each case ; and showing the attendance of
each commissioner of sewe a, whether paid or unpaid, at
each and every meeting of the said commissioners duly
convened, :rem the Ist day of January, 1852, to the pie-
sent time.
Mr. J. B. SMITH move I for a " return in detail of all
vcisolg which have bin detained i. 2 guarani ine during the
five years ending the ht day of July, 1853, in Great" Br-
itain, specifying the name of each vessel, the data of her
arrival, the port from which she last sailed, the duration of the voyage iu days, the number of the crew and passen-
gers on beard, the disease for which quarantine was im-
posed, the number of the cases of sickness and death dur-
ing the voyage, and the number of sick on board when she
arrived, the duration of the quarantine imposed, and
whether any, or how many, fresh cases of sickness oc-
curred dui:ng the detention in quarantine." " Address
for returns of the number of plates of worship belonging
to all denominations, other than the Esiablished Church,
in the Parliamentary burgh of Edinburgh, distinguishiug
the ancient and extended royalties -;oin the other portions
of the same ; of the number of sittings contained in each
of the said placelof worship, and of the numbers of siWngs
in each of the said place 3 of worship, which are let or al-
lotted, and also the numbar of free sittings in each (in lieu
of the return grant 1 30th June)."
Mr. HUM 6 moved for copies of any further correspon-
denco between the Court of Directors of the East India
Company and the President of the Board of Control re-
specting the bill for the future government of India.
MR. LAYARD'S MOTION.
Lord J. MANNERS wished to ask the President of the
Board of Control whether, if the noble lord the member
for London continued indisposed, and was unable to at-
tend the house on Monday, tho Government would press
for a further pc3tporement of the Russian debate, or whe-
ther, under any circumstances, the motion of the hon.
member for Aylesbury would ba allowed to go on ?
Sir C. WOOD—It world be more convenient to ask the
question to-morrow, when I have communicated with my
noble f -1 end.

OFFICERS IN INDIA.
Mr. OTWAY begged to ask the President of the Board
of Control, whether officers in the service of her Majesty
were eligible for employment in the staff in India?
Sir C. WOOD—Orders were sent some months ago to
India sanctioning the appointment of qualified officers to
such employment.
THE OBSTRUCTION OF THE DANUBE.
Mr. LIDDELL begged to ask of her Majesty's Govern-
me it whether any instructions have been sent out by her
Majesty's Government to inquire into the case of British
vessels at present detained in the Danube owing to the im-
perfect state of the navigation of that river : and whether,
in the event of hostilities with Russia before such ships
can be liberated, a suffielent force will be seat out to that
part to prevent their falling into the hands of hostile
powers.
Lord PALMERSTON—The recant obstruction of the
navigation of the Sulina channel of the Danube has been
caused by the accidental circumstance of the waters of the
river having overflowed and spread over the banks, and so
far diminished the force of the current as to increase the
quantity of mud on the bar. This particular inconvience
as temporary, and will no doubt cease when its cause has
also ceased; but I am bound to say that, for many years
past, the Government have had reason to complain of the
neglect of the Government of Russia to perform its duties as
possessor of the territory of which the delta of the Danube
' is composed, and to maintain the channel of the Sulina in
an efficient navigable state. (Hoar.) It was my duty, when
Secretary for Foreign Affairs, to make frequent represen-
tations to the Russian Government on the subject; and
Russia, although she always admitted that it was her duty
to do so--admitted that which we asserted—that as Ruse'
gel thought fit, by virtue of the treaty of Adrianople,
to possess herself of the mouths of the Danube, that
tbsi great watercomee and highway of nations, leading
into the centre of Gc chiefly, it was her duty to see that
great highway was maintained and made accessible (ac-
cording to the treaty of Vienna) to the commerce of all
nations. (Hear, hear.) Russia never disputed that state-
ment, and she asserted always that she was employed in
using means to remedy the grievance. The grievance was
this—that while these mouths of the Danube formed part •
of the Turkish territory, there was maintained a depth of
16 feet on the bar, whereas. by the neglect of the Russian
authorities the depth had diminished to 11 feet, and even
those 11 feet were reduced to a small and narrow channel
from obstructions on the side, from sand-banks, and from
vessels wrecked and sunk, and allowed to remain there, so
that it was difficult for any vessel to pass, except in calm
weather ?lad with a skilfri pilot. (Hear.) We were also
aware that there were local interests that teaded to thwart
what we believed to ha the intentions of the Ruse:an Government. In the first place, there eves rivalship on
the pert of Odessa, where there exist )d a de ,ire to obstruct
the exr 3rt of produce by the Danube. and to direct it, if
possible, by way of Odessa. (Heae.) There were also those
little local interests which arise from the profits that
bargemen and lightermee, and persons of that class, make
by unloading the steamers that come down the Danube,
Fo as to enable them to pass the bar, reloading them
again outside the bar. These local feelings and in-
terests must have obstructed, without their being aware
of it, the good intentions of the Russian Govern.
ment, they have always promised they would take the most
effectual measures. They said they would send a steam-
dredge to carry away all the obstructions on the bar. The
steem-dredge came, and the steam-dredge worked, but
in two hours it was always put out of gear from some ac.
cident or other—(a laugh)—and they wore obliged to go
back to Odessa for repairs, (A laugh.) We recommended
that the Russian Government should pursue the method
by which the Turkish Governme at Le pt the channel clear.
That method was a very simple one. They required every
vessel that welt out of the Danube to tack to their stern
a good iron rake, and by that means the passage of each
vessel kept the channel clear, a depth of 16 feet be'ng con-
stantly maintained. (Hear, hear.) I understand, that in
addidon to the representations I made when at the Fo-
reign-office, constant and emphatic representations have
been made to the Russian Government on this subject, and
I hope that that Government, while they break through
those trammels which hitherto seem to have impeded their
proper action, will see that it is a positive duty which
they owe to Europe to maintain :ree and open that pas-
sage, which by force of arms, they obtained and which
they believed themselves justified in retaining'by the treaty
of Adrianople. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. LIDDELL directed the attention of the noble lord
to the second part of his question, which he had not
answered.
Lord PALMERSTON.—I apprehend the question of
the hon. gentleman relates to vessels which are now con-
fined within the Danube end the Ruse:an territory for
want of water. If, by any misfortune, which I cannot
anticipate, war should arise between this country am!
Russia, it would not ha easy for a British ship of war to
get up to those vessels without water. (Laughter.)
BETTING-HOUSES.
In answer to Mr. A. PELLAT;
Lord PALMERSTON said that a bill had been pre-
pared by the Attorney-Geeeral, which appeared well cal-
culated to attain the object of surpressing betting-houses
in the metropolis. Notice would be given of it imme-
diately ; and ho hoped there would be no di Fficelty in pas-
sing it into a law this session.