The Sun.
London, England, 1854-07-08 00:00:00

to bring forward important motions. The arrangement of
business rendered it impossible for a private member to
carry any bill through that house. He was not speaking
altogether as a disinterested party, for he had a motion on
the Russo-Dutch loan for Tuesday next, which was a sub-
j,,et which he thought ought to be discussed. No doubt
the Gove, eineet were anxious to get through business as
expeditiously as possible ; but he doubted whether morn-
ing sittings would further that object. It appeared from
the statement of the hon. and learned member for Dundalk
that members were denied access to the house the other
night when it was counted out. He believed the hon.
member did not blame the door-keepers ; but he had been
told that an hon. member went and got bold of the key,
locked the door, resumed his seat, and called the attention
of the Speaker to the fact that forty members were not
present. (Laughter.)
The SPEAKER said that he ought to state that he was
informed, that the door had been locked, that the key was
left in the door, but that none of the officers knew of it.
He should take steps to prevent the same thing happening-
again.
Mr. GOULBURN hoped that the door would not be
locked to prevent members going out. (Laughter.)
Sir G. GREY said that the house on three Tuesdays
last month had sat till midnight, after there had been
morning sittings ; so that he thought it could not be said
that those sittings cut short the business of the evening.
Mr. DISRAELI said he had made an effort to check the
abuse of morning sittings, and he believed that every mem-
ber opposite, who had lamented losing the opportunity
either of beginning or concluding his speech last Tuesday,
had voted against the proposition he had made. (Laughter.)
SUPPLY—CIVIL SERVICE.
The house resolved. itself into a committee of supply.
The first vote taken was 7,5511. for statute law commis-
sion.
Mr. WMAHON urged upon the committee the expedi-
ency of assimilating the statute laws of England and Ire-
land.
The vote was then agreed to.
900/. for the publication of the ancient laws and insti-
tutes of Ireland.—Agreed to.
23,7001. for salaries and compensations under the Patent
Law Amendment Act.
In reply to Mr. PELLATT,
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that the reduction
of the fees on patents had caused a great diminution in the
sum received by the law officers and their clerks. Last
year there had been a great influx of patents, but the in-
crease was of a temporary character, and in future he did
not apprehend that the number would be greater than
formerly. The sum received last year by each of the law
officers was 4,0001., but there was no reason to suppose
that it would increase.
WILLIAMS was of opinion that if the fees of the
law officers of the Crown were paid in' the shape of a regu-
lar fixed salary, then there would be no necessity for
guessing with respect to what would be the probable
expenditure.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that the question of paying
fixed salaries to the Attorney and Solicitor Generals had
been considered by the Government, but that they had
come to the conclusion that it was not advisable to alter
the present system.
The vote was then agreed to, as was also a sum of
78,8151. to defray the charges for pensions to masters and
seamen of the merchant service, and to their widows and
children.

—estigation that was, necessary to satisfy the terms of the
niiinsfssion, but he could not say when the report would
made. It would be made when the examination was
neludsd.
THE VACANT GROUND NEAR ST. PAUL'S.
Mr. HANKEY begge 1 to ask the noble lord the President
the Council whether it was the intention of the Govern-
ment to take any steps to prevent the erection of buildings
on the site now vacant at the south side of St. Paul's ?
Lord J. RUSSELL—It would be well for the public if
the ground now vacant should be left unoccupied; but
'when the hon. gentleman asks me if the Government in-
tend to take any steps to prevent the erection of buildings
on it, I can only say that I know only of one way of doing
so, and that is, to pay for the site a very large sum of money
to the corpo-ration of London, to induce them to part with
the land ; and I do not know that this house would agree
to that course.
TRANSMISSION OF LETTERS TO AND FROM THE
NON-COMMISSIONED OFFICER'S AND SOLDIERS
IN TURKEY.
Lord HOTHAM begged to make an inquiry from the
Secretary for the Treasury relative to the existing arrange-
ro.ents for the transmission of soldiers' letters to and from
tie army now serving in Turkey. A letter from the corn-
=sliding officer of one of the regiments in Turkey had been
sent to him—he was well acquainted with the writer, the
1 otter was addressed to one of his most intimate friends, and
he could rely on the authenticity of what the writer men-
tioned. It was stated by the commanding officer, that as
regarded the officers' letters, they had been received with
laudable regularity, but not as regarded the non-commis
sinned officers and men. (Hear, hear.) He stated that
during the time his regiment was in Malta and at Scutari,
there were, within his own knowledge, at least one
thousand letters sent home from that regiment. He
stated that vast numbers of the men of his regiment
were desirous of remitting small sums of money to their
wives and families at home, but, inasmuch as not a single
letter had been received in answer to any one of the
thousand, and, moreover, as non-commissioned officers and
privates of his regiment had not received a single letter
since they left England, they were unable to carry their
wishes into effect, inasmuch as they did not know where
their wives and families might be. (Hear.) It was under
these circumstances that he ventured to ask the hon. gen-
tleman whether he was aware of the detention of the let-
ters to which he had alluded, or whether there was any
pre-payment required from the non-commissioned officers
and privates, which the absence of currency might render
impossible. If the hon. gentleman were not aware of the
cause of detention, he trusted he would cause an inquiry
to be made on the subject, in order that the non-commis-
sioned officers and soldiers might receive advantages simi-
lar to those enjoyed by their officers.
Mr. WILSON would be very glad if he had known more
distinctly the object of the hon. and gallant member's
question than he was able to infer from the notice on the
paper. As it stood on the paper, it waa so very general
that he though it rather referred to the rate of postage than
to the particular case to which the noble lord had ad-
verted. All he could say, therefore, was, tbat he would
cause an inquiry to be made of the Post-office authorities,
and endeavour to get the noble lord such information as
he could obtain. He could only say generally that the ar-
rangements of the Treasury and Post-office were entirely
the same in respect to the modes of conveyance and of
payment for the non-commissioned officers and privates as
for the superior officers. Therefore, he could not account
for the difference that had taken place between the men
and the officers.
THE WAR DEPARTMENT.
Colonel BLAIR begged to ask the noble lord the Presi-
dent of the Council when the estimates with regard to the
office of Secretary of the War Department would be laid
upon the table of the house?
Lord J. RUSSELL—They will be laid upon the table
on Monday, and I shall propose to take them into conside-
ration in committee of supply on Friday.
Lord HOTHAM—The report of the commission is not
yet printed and placed in the hands of members of the
house, and will it be advisable to bring forward a question
that may raise considerable discussion, and so nearly con-
tested with the subject of the commission, on Friday
next?

BATTERSEA-PARK.
The next vote was for the sum of 25,500/. towards Bat-
tersea-park.
Lord R. GROSVENOR said he did not intend to oppose
the present vote, and although the scheme had proved a
most disastrous one, he approved of the policy which had
led to the necessity of its being asked for. Ho was, how-
ever, of opinion that he was only making a legitimate use
of the opportunity by bringing before the committee the
whole question of metropolitan improvements. (Hear,
hear.) He quite agreed with the principle that it was not
fair that the improvements of the metropolis should be
carried on by means of the general taxation of the country.
He would. not trespass on the time of the house by stating
the necessity which existed for metropolitan improve-
ments, but he wished most particularly to direct the at-
tention of his noble friend the President of the Council to
the fact that, whilst Government refused to undertake
any metropolitan improvements, the hands of the metropolis
itself were tied. The metropolis had no authority itself,
and it could find no one who had the power to make the im-
provements which were so lunch required ; so that, at the
present moment, large works for the improvement of the
metropolis were at a stand-still. Through the conduct of
the corporation of the city of London, the public had lost
THE CANADA BILL. a most healthful and interesting high road, which by right
belonged to it, along the banks of the Thames. Through
Mr. ADDERLEY—I beg to ask the noble lord, when
will the Canada Bill be read a second time ? the conduct of the conservators of the river, the public
Lord J. RUSSELL—I can only state that it will not be were entirely shut out from its banks. For five miles in
read a second time before Monday, the 17th, a direct line from London-bridge, the banks of the Thames
PUBLIC BUSINESS. were entirely occupied by wharves, and there was no open
Lord J. RUSSELL proceeded to add that he proposed space left for the use of the public. This was a state of
to take the Episcopal and Capitular Bill on Thursday next things highly dangerous to the health of the metropolis,
at an early sitting. With regard to the Irish land bills, and to that portion of it which was most densely inhabited
he could not make any pledge that be would on a Govern- by persons who could not, from their occupations, go into
went day give them precedence of other bills, or as to the the country for relaxation. He did not object to the votes
course the Government would think fit to adopt with re- for Kensington-gardens or for the recent purchase of Bur-
spect to giving facilities for proceeding with those bills. lington-house, with the objects of which he quite agreed,
He proposed on Monday to take in committee of the whole but he desired that all parts of the metropolis should be
house the Bribery Bill before other business, and on Thurs. treated exactly alike. He therefore wished to know how
day and Friday they would proceed with supply. the metropolitan improvements were to go on, if Govern-
THE USURY LAWS. meat threw off the responsibility, and would not let any
Mr. CAYLEY—Does the noble lord intend, in the ab- one else take it up? Under the
present circumstances, he
sense of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, to take the repeal thought they ought to say how these works were to be
of the Usury Laws Bill without any statement being made carried on. The questions of the Board of Sewers, of the
respecting it? supply of water, and several other matters, were equally
Lord J. RUSSELL—The Chancellor of the Exchequer pressing, but there was no authority whatever which could
made a statement on bringing in the bill, and I do not settle them. He therefore trusted that his noble friend
think there can be any objection to the second reading of would state without any delay what project Government
it ; but I will postpone the committee. had in view on this subject, and that not a day would be
THE CHARITY COMMISSION. lost in placing it in such a state of forwardness that it
The order of the day for going into committee of supply could be submitted to the metropolis.
being read, Mr. A. HASTIE objected altogether to the system of
Mr. E. ELLICE wished to take that opportunity of compelling people at large to pay taxes for the purpose of
correcting a misunderstanding, that he was informed had carrying out improvements in the metropolis. He moved
arisen in consequence of what he said on the previous that the vote be rejected
evening in reference to the charity commission. It was Sir W. MOLESWORTH said he hoped the committee
supposed that he had said something reflecting on the would not agree to the motion of the hon. gentleman. He
manner in which the able and excellent gentlemen who would briefly refer to the facts of the case. In the year
was at the head of that commission (Mr. Erle) performed 1846, an act had been passed authorising the Commission-
his duties. Nothing could have been further from his ers of Woods and Forests to form Battersea-park, and to
intention ; on the contrary, ho had spoken of him id high borrow for that purpose 200,0001. from the Exchequer-
terms, all he complained of was, that the commissioners loan Commissioners. The total estimated cost of the under-
had not sufficient power. (Hear, hear.) taking was 308,0001.; of that sum 236,0001. had already
UN STAMPED PUBLICATIONS. ' been expended ;so that there would be required only
Sir J. SHELLEY wished to call the attention of the 72.000/. more to complete the park ; and of this 72,0001. a
house to the threatened prosecution of Mr. Novelle, the sum of 25,500!. would be wanted in the present year. He
publisher of the Map:cal Times, for an alleged violation of had every reason to believe that in the year 1862-63, or
the Newspaper Stamp Oct, and to ask the Attorney-
within a period of about 6 years after the completion of the
General whether proceedings are to be instituted against
park, a sum of 326,030/. would he received for ground rents
him ? On the Bth of May last Mr. Novelle received a or, iu other words, a sum nearly equal to the principal and
letter from the board of Inland Revenue, telling hi the interest of the entire expenditure. But if the motion
m that
he was infringing the law, and that he was to be punished of the hon. gentleman were adopted, and if the park were
for so doing. Upon the receipt of this communication he to be left unfinished, there would be a positive and a very
wrote in succession to the solicitor of the board, to the considerable loss to the public. The whole of the area
chairman of that body, and to the Attorney-General, which the park was to occupy, with the exception of about
one acre, had already been purchased, and there was to be
staking in what manner he had become liable to prosecution
and whether it was intended to proceed with it, but he did Paid for that land a sum of 23,0001., of which 17,0301.
not receive an answer to those letters. He (Sir J. Shelley) should be paid out of the vote then under the consideration
of the committee, under a contract entered into upon the
thought that, after the resolution to which the house had
lately come, the law on this subject was ill-defined. It faith of Parliament. Another point to which he would
advert was the assistance which the Government were pre-
was incumbent on the law officers of the Crown to say
whether this wretched man waa to be kept any longer in pared to afford for the construction of a park in Finsbury.
suspense with a threatened prosecution hanging over his The estimated cost of such a park was 250,0301., and the
head.
Government had last year intimated their readiness to
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said the only reason why apply to Parliament for 50,0001. of that amount if the in-
Mr. Novelle had not received an answer was, cause the habitants of the borough and the surrounding districts
same measure was to be meted out to him as would be the should raise the remaining 200,0001. That offer, however,
case with others, and because the course of action on the had not been accepted, and no steps had since been taken
part of Government was not yet determined upon:, alie in the matter.
Novelle
published more than one-half of his
popen fiued Lord R. GROSVENOR said he wished to know whether
with advertisements at certain times, and as he sought to the Government meant to allow metropolitan improve-
ments to be carried at
evade the law and avoid payment of duty it was thought hap-hazard, or whether they pro-
fit to caution him. But Mr. Novelle had not chosen- to posed to introduce any fixed and comprehensive scheme
under which those improvements should be conducted?
keep within the limits of the law, and this was the reason
that he had received a communication from the Board of Lord J. RUSSELL said that the Government would
Revenue. Mr. Novelle would not be punished for what have to consider that subject next session when they
should have to deal with the report of the commissioners
had passel. The question was a serious question ; et was
who had recently inquired into the state of the City -whether the recent resolution of the house did away with
cor-
the previous law; that question was not yet decided. As Poration.
soon as he had had an opportunity of making up his mind Mr. SPOONER would warn the right hon. baronet op-
as to what ought to be done under existing circumstances, posite (Sir W. Molesworth) that if he were to offero a t d-
he would state the result to the house • but he thought he vance on the part of the Government a portion of the funds
ought not to be called upon to expl ;ain what course he
required fcr the construction of Finsbury Park, he would
would take generally, or in this special case. It Would receive applications for similar aid from Birmingham and
depend upon the resolution of the committee what ivas to other large towns.
be done in future. Mr. W. WILLIAMS said that the construction of Bat-
Mr. M. GIBSON thought it would be wise to suspend tersea-park would be productive of the immense advan-
existing actions, and not to commence new actions until tage of providing a place of healthy recreation for not less
Government had decided as to the course which was rea- than half a million of human beings, while the whole of the
sonble and expedient. He would press on the noble lord to mum expended on the work wouldbe repaid in the course
Use his influence with his colleagues, so that no action of a few years. Ije would, under similar circumstances,
should be commenced under the stamp laws until Govern- support a measure for the construction of a park in Fins-
meat had determined what they would do. He was cur-
bury, or in any other district.
Prised to notice the delay that took place. The whole ques-
Mr. GEORGE DUNUAN had been instrumental in ob-
tic'4le_ alight be settled in three days. The Board of Inland taining the grant for Scotland from Sir R. Peel; it was only
Zevu Were placed in an unpleasant position owing to given on condition that a larger sum would be provided by
Go.°l4tcauty of the law, and the nature of the intentions the locality.
Mr. CHEETHAM thought the time was come for the
of
ie—neneumulect • He was at a loss to understand where the
members of large censtituenciee to set themselves against
Irtleiv,7d OnxieLY- The members of the Government. always
such votes.
nothing was ro: friendly manner on the subject , but still
Mr. JAMES MACGREGOR begged to remind the right
was to cease tnti.___• The simple way to settle the question
hon. baronet the Commissioner of Public Works, that a
transmission b u..neTvecarpers, and to charge only for
large sum of money had been sot aside for the formation of
thing this sessionsie overnment could not do any-
the ' eY *next
next session to brin tan o, a road from London to Westminster-bridge on the Surrey
at least at the beginning of
if some steps were not soon taken the money would
side;
Lord J. RUSSELL el till on the subject.
that ens be lost, for it was given on condition that the road should
said he could only said' 'lt'll regard to what had been
Chaneellor of the E 22-
e,_., right hon. friend the be made within five years.
tention to the q tiallequer" -7.l*id most anxious at- Sir W. MOLES WORTH said it was true that a sum of
settled in a satisfactorr•rn and
w BO,OOOl. had been set aside” for the improvement of the
Peicted, out by the right terrier' but
acetrotis of seeing it
gentleman en,
'whether that mode borough of Southwark, not for this road alone. He was
Manchester was the best, no.r whether i was':
•rtoLniel:informed that it would coat four or five times that sum,
question, as assorted, weebey for
l
D and, therefore, he was not prepared to recommend its con
question, as assorted was opefl
tion of the right hon. gentleman
evaded the law should not t::
anT:ethprolmeww-he-e struct ion.
inlaean was this those' jilo. Mr. BRADY opposed the vote. The locality of the pro-
acknowledged the law should posed park was a mere swamp ; if it were not, some of the
dience. This he could pay a penalty for th • u • • n t b•e so largely invested in building in
41r °hes capital t a was eine not regard as an i stration of the law. mpartial ee
mini. the environs of London would have found its way there.
Mr. COBDEN protested against the uncertainty Since the opening of the Crystal Palace tha traffic through
which the question was kept, on account of thert4hlty in the borough had much increased, and something ought to
gave to members of Parliament. He, for i st trouble it be done to improve it.
greatly troubled by applications from • n an'3B, wae Mr. V. SCULLY hoped that when any vote for Irish
parties on the n
ject, not only from parties who had u t le a i.,m.an-- PP, poses was proposed the metropolitan members would
but those who had stamped publications ns
am'
e-v'rs• "41421 these generosity as they did when anything was
He had received
a letter from a Manchester news • • to be done to same
their constituents. -
his- attention paper proprietor calling
to an advertisement of Holt's Army an N 1,- The vote was then agreed to without a division.
Gazette, which was announced to contain all the newsa 'Y
. o_ll the next vote of 35,0001. for the formation of an em-
the army and navy for three half pence, the publication of hankment and p bi- Vauxhall and Bat-
teases brid. u lc roadway between
being unstamped. He warned the Attorney-eneral not Dr. Mi.deaLoT,' 1.
- to attempt to confine the favour of Government to what was about to ----Cm`' condemned this scheme as a job which
were called clue papers. If th s were attempted to be Cubitt, the efeer I:Petrated for the benefit of Messrs.
acted cPcla it would coon be difficult to draw the line. He Cornwall. -"u4 of Westminster, and the Duchy of
would put it to Government to say whether they could re- Captain SCOBE
sist the growing feeling of the people for instruction, for such improvementsLL condemned the principle of voting
which Was evidenced by the increase of cheap publics- were the last itw as these, and ho ed that these
would be pro P
tions by still continuing this unpopular taz. of public money. Posed should b paid for out
Mr. J. SMITH said persons, instead of spending their Mr. HILDYARD ho
money in drink, bought penny publications, anti took would take the sense of the on h his hon. friend (Dr. Michell)
se them home to read. way to put a stop to such votes as that was the only
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL made some reply which Sir W. MOLESWORTH gal" this' that '
was inaudible. Battersea-park scheme, which had this was part of the
Mr. BOW yER, complained of the circumstance of morn- the house on many previous •a,,i. been fully discussed in
• ing sittings being fixed on Tuesdays, as they were the only tinned both by acts of Parliament"' and had been sane-
,hdays when Members could bring forward motions. By therefore, hoped the house would not reject by votes. He,
e arrangement of morning E•ittings, it sometimes the completion of that improvement. reject the vote for
ttlappetn.el that neither dine nor inclination existed tee Dr. MICHELL should certainly divide the- commi
discussion in the evenio',. His object in rising was to beg against the vote.ttee
Dar Majesty's Government to make i arm aueement by After a short discussion, Dr. MICH
80 no 0
ELL withdrew •3
Which members opposition, and the vote was agreed to withoutdivisi ion.
n
.... _ ers could brin,' forward their motions. a
Mr. M. MILNES
4- referred to the count-out the other On the next vote of 3,393/. for works and •
evening on the repairs at the
. _ e hon.
and said he co ni inember's (Hr. Phillimoro's) motion, I British Ambassador's house in Paris,
fart'
cal sired that embers had been un- Mr. WYSE, after commenting upon the disgraceful
y treated, as the IL". m . f condition into which, according to the
neutrals was ofth question as to the rights and law o report of Mr. Alba-
that this house had bean
Governo most important character. He thought no, n allowed to get, inquired what per-
notmeat would if don of the furniture of the house belonged to the nation,
check motions mad ad to their popularity if they did
Mr. J. G. PHILLI a e' independent members. and also whether the Government had given any, and what,
know whether the • 31°ItE. thought the house ought to right hon - encouragement to the building of a new English church
Paris, for which he understood Lord
in
worth), in his sneeett t,„ • gentleman (Sir W. Moles-
own sentiments 04; ws other night expressed his d. a grant of
queste money or land.
..y or the -
Sir W. MOLESWORTH said that the greater portion of
Ministers. sentiments of her Majesty's
Lord D. STUART said, the the furniture at the English embassy in Paris belonged to
days did interfere with '• mmtine sittings on Tues. I the Government ; and that a clerk of the works had been
W 1 Me rat Of *A4
4 epeudent member, Appointed to control the expenditure for the repairs, In

Lord J. RITSSELL=PI do not think that the report of
the commbssion has any reference to the appointment of a
Secretary of State.
On the motion of Sir G. PECHELL, a return in detail
of the items composing the sum of 4,991/. 6s. 7d. for ex-
penses incurred relative to slave vessels captured by her
Majesty's ships, and included in vote 14, class V., fur
20,000/. in civil service estimates to March, 1855, was or-
dered.

All priebitbEity no fv,rtber outlay, for a considerable num-
ber Of years to -come, would be necessary, either on ac-
count, of the building or the furniture.
Mr. WILSON- said the Treasury had the power by act
of Parliament of /ranting sums for providing Protestant
chapels and bury lug-grounds abroad, provided half the
sum required war raised by private subscription. This
was the origin of the items in their annual vote.
The vote was then agreed to.
The next vote was a sum of 10,9001. for erecting and
maintaining certain I.;ght-houses abroad.
In reply to a question from Mr. WILLIAMS,
Mr. WILSON said he was not aware that any dues
were received from these light-houses.

Vote agreed to.
The next vote was a sum of 2,500/. for a museum upon
the premises of the Royal Dublin Society.—Agreed to.
The next vote proposed was a sum of 27,500/. for the
purchase by the commissioners of the Great Exhibition of
1851 of additional land at Kensington Gore for the erec-
tion of a National Gallery and other purposes in connec-
tion with art. _ _

....
Mr. WILLIAMS asked for some explanation from the
Government with respect to this large vote.
Mr. SPOONER objected to the vote. The sum of
150,0001. had already been paid for land at Kensington
Gore, and no information of any kind had been given to
the country as to the details of its expenditure, or the
further intentions of the Government. Vote after vote of
this kind was asked for, and he should really like to know
when they were to stop.
After a few words from Sir C. BURRELL, which did
not reach the gallery,
Mr. CARDWELL said that in 1852 the Government ob-
tained a vote of 150,0001., which, together with another
150,0301. tbe surplus funds from the Great Exhibition, were
applied to the purchase of a magnificent and very eligible
plot of land, about 00 acres in extent, at Kensington Gore.
The bargain was an exceedingly profitable one, and many
private individuals would like to take it off their hands at
the terms they gave for it. But there was a small wedge-
shaped piece of ground running from the Hammersmith-
raad to the centre of the property, and upon which a very
bad description of tenements were situated, which greatly
diminished the value of the whole of the land. An act had
therefore been obtained by the commissioners to buy this
small piece of land and these miserable tenements, and
appropriate a sum as compensation to the owners. A com-
mittee of that house last year decided that the National
Gallery should be removed to this spot, and he hoped that
decision would be inflexibly adhered to ; but, at all events,
it was manifest that this small additional outlay of 27,5001.
would be more than counterbalanced by the enhanced
value it would give to the whole of the rest of the property.
Mr. DANBY SEYMOUR said that the removal of the
National Gallery to Kensington Gore was not decided, but
rather recommended by the committee to which the Presi-
dent of the Board of Trade had referred. The constitution
1 of that committee had also been-unfair, because it excluded
thosee
hmembersGore
was whohe
twienr et
the
ep posed
maps tool. tthhee rme me
tor ve
pa 1. K
01 i s
,eenn-
d
it would be. a very inconvenient site ; and such was the
general feeling out of doors. Before such a great undertak-
ing was finally determined on, a, special committee should
be appointed to inquire into the question. The Govern-
ment ought fully to explain to the house the details of
their plan ; and there need be no hurry in deciding on
carrying it out. Sir C. Barry had a project en the subject
for connecting the National Gallery with the British Mu-
sume and other institutions, and they should have time to
considerthe scheme of so eminent au individual. Let them
wait a year or two, and see also what results attended the
new Crystal Palace at Sydenham, which professed to accom-
plish most of the objects the Government had in view at
Kensington Gore, and not injure the Crystal Palace by a
rival State establishment. He objected to Government pa-
tronage of art, which was only calculated to injure the object
it sought to foster; and he should take the sense of the house
upon the latter part of this vote. In conclusion he begged
to 1
jmeor vd e
J.
hits tutsh
se
EvLo tLe
ss
abiodu ltdh
ebemne
etigoantiovfedthe hon. gentle-
man was not consistent with his argument. (A. laugh.) He
said he had no objection to complete the purchase, and what
he did object to was that the house should be pledged to
apply this ground to the erection of a national gallery; but
the house would not be at all pledged by this vote to do
any such thing. According to the views of the Government,
the ground should be bought and the National Gallery
should be erected on the ground, but all the Government
now asked was that the purchase made by the late Govern-
ment should be improved, by the additional purchase of a
piece of land which would make what had already been
bought far more valuable. (Hear, hear.) By next year the
Government would consider the subject very niatiL ely, and
if they should continue of the opinion that the National
Gallery should be built ou the ground the matter would be
submitted to the house. But the Government certainly
agreed with the commission appointed three years ago, and
with the committee that sat last year, that there are reasons

against maintaining the National Gallery in its present po-
sition. In the first place, it was very difficult to obtain
space for additional pictures that might be expected to ar-
rive from time to time; and in the next place, the pictures
were exposed there to great injury ; but if they were re-
moved to Kensington Gore, and to a more spacious build-
ing erected there, they would not be thus liable to injury.
The honourable gentleman said it would ho impossible to
expect people to go so far as Kensington Gore to see the
pictures, but it was well known that persons went a great
deal further than that for a similar object. (Hear.) As
many as 11,0',0 persons attended on one day at Sydenham,
which was a greater distance from London than Kensington
Gore. There were other proposals made by the Royal Com-
missioners with respect to the disposal of this ground, one
for the benefit of learned societies who might or might not
be inclined to adopt any proposal of the kind, and another
for education and arts connected with manufactures,
which he thought would be of very essential use to this
country. There was also at present a large collection at
Marlborough House, and that was another reason why the
ground should be devoted to the purpose proposed. At all
events the purchase was not an unwise purchase, for the
ground in itself was very valuable, and provided the house
was of opinion that the land was unfit for any of the pur-
poses to which- the Government proposed to devote it, the

ground might be sold at probably a much advanced price.
They could then repay the 150,0001. contributed by the
royal commissioners, and they would be able to apply that
150,0001. to any other purpose they might think conducive
to the ends of the Exhibition of 1851. The hon. gentle-
man would see that by refusing this grant he would not
at ail attain his object. All he would attain was, that the
inconvenient piece of ground running into the land already
purchased would be kept oat of the purchase, and that
thereby the land that was bought would be made less
valuable than otherwise it might be. Whatever might be
the ultimate decision, it was desirable to make the pur-
chase of this ground ; and he begged to state at the same
time that it was the opinion of the Government that a
plan should be proposed to the house for a national gal-
lery on that site. But no plan was yet settled, the house
was not called upon to vote a single shilling for it, and the
wish of the hon. gentleman, that the question should be
deferred to next year, was therefore completely fulfilled.
Mr. HEYWOOD said the house was called upon to vote
money for a purpose that could not be carried out.
Mr. CROSSLEY did not think the public would go to
Kensington to see pictures, whatever they might do with
respect to Sydenham Palace; and he thought the present
gallery in Trafalgar-square was far more convenient than
the proposed gallery at Kensington. He did not think the
commissioners were very goodjudges of taste, fora pattern
exhibited at Marlborough House as a specimen of defective
taste had become so popular that the manufacturers had
sold 40,0001. worth of the pattern. (Hear.)
Mr. PETO said the land had been purchased by Govern.
ment, and were it sold to-morrow it would bring a profit
of at least 100,0001. He hoped the vote would be agreed
to, as the bargain was a good speculation.
Mr. SPOONER observed that if hereafter they should
object to the removal of the National Gallery, they would
be reminded that they had voted this money, and would
be asked how they could therefore object to the removal.
He would therefore vote against the vote if the hon.
gentleman should divide, and thought there must be a
pressure outside the house upon the Government, which
induced them to make this proposal. (Hear.) It was the
duty of the house to stand between Ministers and that
pressure, because he was sure, if they could act indepen-
dently on the question, they would not have brought for-
ward
this motion. (Hear.)
Mr. DISRAELI agreed with his hon. friend that there
was some pressure out of doors that did act upon the Go-
vernment, and he hoped they would be bound by that ac-
tion, and that was—the generally diffused idea that they
should elevate the taste of the people of this country; and
this was one of the first steps to attain that important ob-
ject. This was really an addition to the vote which ho had
the honour to recommend to the house when the sum of
150,0001., contributed by the shillings of the people of the
country, was proposed by the royal commissioners be de-
voted to the advancement of the arts and sciences ; they
having applied at the same time to the Government to know
whetherthey would recommend to Parliament to contribute
an equal sum in order to accomplish that object. It was
generally believed that that object would bo bast accom-
plished by buying a considerable piece of ground, which
would be the future theatre of their operations ; and when
he had the honour of proposing that the house should
vote an equal sum to that which was contributed by
the royal commissioners as the residue of the accumulation
of the receipts received from the Exhibition of 1851, it was
at that time well known, both to himself and to all those
acquainted with the circumstances, that there would be a
future necessity for asking for a supplementary vote of this
description. It was not concealed ; and if they did not
dwell upon it, it was only because they were of opinion
that if it was stated that there was this small segment of
land which they were desirous of obtaining, those in pos-
session would be ready to take advantage of their anxiety
to get it. (Hear.) If they dwelt upon the necessity of
obtaining that small segment or wedge of land, of course
the price would be increased, and that was the only reason
why they had not placed the point ostentatiously before
the public. He begged to call attention to the evidence of
the secretary of the royal commission, who was examined
on the subject, and who stated that it was scarcely advis-
able to enter into particulars with reference to this piece
of ground. If they had entered into great detail as to the
extreme necessity and advantage of obtaining this wedge
of ground, or entered into any narrative of that kind, there
was no doubt, if it could be obtained at all, it would be
only obtained at a greater cost, and that was the only rea-
son why the supplementary vote had been postponed.
(Hear.) The Government were asking the committee to
sanction an arrangement to which a year and a half ago
they had given their assent without a division, and so far
as this vote was concerned the committee should feel they
were acting on a pledge previously made, and in a prudent
manner, by giving their assent to it. By doing so they
would not pledge themselves to erect the National Gallery
at Kensington-gore. The plan for doing so must be offered
in detail to the house, and the house would have an oppor-
tunity of discussing the propriety of the proposition when
brought forward for their consideration. (Hear, hear.)
They might have great difficulties to encounter before aul
oect
the objects which they contemplated were achieved, but
he should be quite satisfied if the committee would then
agreebjion
a.
few(Hear,
words
ord hear.)s
to a vote to which they must see there was no fair
After
SP from Mr. D. Ssmuotlß,
Mr. SPOONER said he intended to divide, and to
record his vote against a plan that would involve a most
dangerous principle and an enormous expenditure.
Mr. LOCKE thought the house ought to iueist on a
undertaking. example of the House of Par-
liament before them. He felt certain that the institutions
They had the .
specific plan and estimate before embarking in such an
for whose benefit they were about to erect these buildings
would not take advantage of them. He should vote for
the rejection of the vote unless they had a distinct under-
standing of the ultimate object and amount of the grant.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that the present vote did not
enable them to build a national gallery in any part of the
land. If the vote wore agreed to Government would next
year be prepared with a plan. with regard to the Houses
of Parliament,
teresponsible
in the matter,a , but that Government was not
he might remark that there was both a plan
and an estimate,
as it had been entrusted to a committee.
After a few remarks from Mr. V. SCULLY against the
vote.

Mr. LOCKE asked whether, if the assent of the house
were given to the vote under their notice, the noble lord