The Sun.
London, England, 1838-02-09 00:00:00

penny, and the collection being made in advance by the use of
stamp covers should have a fair trial. When the Chancellor
of the Exchequer was asked in December last what he meant
to do upon the subject, he replied that he intended, instead of
following the recommendation of the commissioners, to bring
in a Bill to authorise the use of twopenny stamp covers,
within the twopenny district. If the Right Honourable
Gentleman had offered a premium for a plan by which to
overthrow the recommendation of the Commissioners, a bet-
ter mode could not have been devised. The Chamber
of Commerce in Edinburgh, • considering the great ad-
vantage that would accrue to the country from the
adoption of a uniform system of charging postage, and of
making a large reduction of the rates, had taken alarm at
this proposal, and by their petition strongly urged upon the
House that some means should be taken to prevent the Right
Honourable Gentleman from following up his intention. On
this occasion he (Mr. Wallace) would confine himself to
this plain and simple question, whether anything could be
more perfectly absurd and untenable than that of pretend-
ing to carry out a suggestion for permitting the use of a
stamp cover, at a penny rate, by means of a twopenny stamp
cover ? He could not for a moment suppose that the Right
Honourable Gentleman would persevere in adopting so
strange a proposition. The idea of the public being willing
to take the additional trouble of purchasing a stamp, when
they could send their letters at the same rate without a
stamp, seemed to him so exceedingly preposterous that he
would not argue the matter further. The Honourable
Gentleman was about to give notice of his intention to ask
for leave to bring in a Bill upon the subject of the Post-office
Department, but at the suggestion of an Honourable Gentle-
man near him he concluded by moving that the House resolve
itself into a Committee to take into consideration the laws re-
lating to the Post-office.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER presumed
that the only object of the present motion was to raise a dis-
cussion.—(Hear, from Mr. Wallace.) To that he had no
objection. He should ill discharge his duty, and not be
showing that respect which he entertained for a Committee
of this House, if he were to prejudge a question which was
now under the consideration of a Committee up-stairs. He
had been called upon to consider the propriety of adopting
Mr. Hill's plan. For that gentleman he entertained very
great respect, but he could not in deference to Mr. Hilt's
judgment hazard the loss of an enormous amount of revenue.
If he had made the experiment of Mr. Hill's plan, and had
reduced the postage of all letters from their present amount to
a penny, the increase in the numbers of letter that would be
required to be delivered by the Post-office in order to pre-
vent a loss would be from their present amount of 43,000,000
to somewhere about 400,000,000. No person on earth could
imagine that any permanent arrangement could be made that
would augment the correspondence in this country within
any limited period to such an extent. All existing ar-
rangements would have to be re-organised, and that
upon a mere hypothesis. He would not presume to say
that Mr. Hill's plan was wrong. Indeed he had consented
to the appointment of a Committee, to whom that plan
was submitted, and he thought it would be only prudent
to await the report of that Committee, in order to
see whether they considered it feasible. The twopenny
postage was an increasing source of revenue, which clearly
proved that the present rate of charge did not operate to
diminish that description of correspondence. He had re-
duced the fourpenny postage to twopence, and had directed
a registry to be kept of the' amount of correspondence be-
fore the reduction and after—this would show the effect of
that reduction upon the amount of correspondence. This
information was essential, because all the reasoning in favour
of an alteration would fall to the ground, unless it could be
shown that the present Postage Duty threw difficulties in the
way of the correspondence of the country. The Hon. Gen-
tleman was favourable to try the experiment of a stamp-
cover ; but did he wish to try it fairly ? It would not be
trying it fairly if they said that a letter should go under a
stamp cover for a penny, whereas a letter not going under a
stamp cover should be twopence. It was supposed by some
Gentlemen that notes of invitation and messages would be
frequently sent by the Twopenny Post instead of by servants,
if a stamp cover were allowed : he, therefore, had consented
to the experiment. When the whole plan of Mr. Hill should
have been considered by the Committee, and reported upon to
the House, he should be prepared to give his determination
upon it. At present he thought it prudent not to make any
alteration in the existing system. He had great respect for
the Chamber of Commerce in Edinburgh, but he should have
attached much more weight to their recommendation if it had
been made with reference to their own city, instead of relating
to the mode of carrying on correspondence in London.
Mr. HUME said that the object of his Houonrable Friend

(Mr. Wallace) was precisely that which the Right Honour-
able Gentleman professed to Li his; namely, that no altera-
tion should be made until the whole plan had been fully
determined upon. The Right Honourable Gentleman, how-
ever, said he was willing to make a partial attempt to carry
Mr. Hill's plan into effect. It was not a partial trial of
than plan, because Mr. Hill suggested the reduction of the
duty to a penny. Two years had elapsed since the right
Honourable Gentleman declared that the present system
should be altered ; yet nothinr, had been done. The Post-
office Commissioners had made ten reports, and he remem-
bered no instance in which so many recomendations of a
Commission had been left unnoticed. He admitted that
sever al useful alterations Lad been introduced into the Post-
office department ; but he would press upon the consideration
of the Government the distrust prevailing throughout the
country as to any really beneficial change being effected while

the present system continued.
Mr. LABOUCHERE begged to state, that so far from
the recommendations of the Commissioners appointed to in-
quire into the Post-office establishment not being attended to
and supported by Government, he (as one of those Commis-
sioners) knew there had been on the part of the Government
a most anxious desire to carry those recommendations into
effect. When the Commission was appointed it was stated
that the Commissioners would be a mere screen to the Go-
vernment to stave off all reform, and that there was no real
intention of looking into the abuses of the Post-office. He
on that occasion gave a pledge in his own name, and in the
name of his colleagues, that they were determined to look
fully and fairly into the subject, with a desire to lay before the
public the sincere impressions which the inquiry might
make upon them, and he now trusted that by the course they
had taken the expectations of the country had not been disap-
pointed. The Commissioners made their reports without any
communication or previous consultation with the Post-office
or the Treasury, as they might have done, in order to ascer-
tain whether the opinions of those authorities coincided with
their own before being promulgated to the world. It must
necessarily have sometimes happened that there should be a
-difference of opinion between the Commissioners and those two
Departments. He believed that the Commissioners would not
have done their duty if they had by previous communications
endeavoured to avoid that difference of opinion. At the
same time they had no occasion to blame the Post-office autho-
rities or the Government for exercising their own judgment
with respect to the recommendations of the Commissioners.
Nevertheless, he was not aware until this report with regard
to the Twopenny Post-office came under consideration, that
any important recommendation of the Commissioners had not
been carried into effect as far as the Government could do it.
He denied that it was the fault of the Government that the
Post-office had not been placed under the management of
Commissioners instead of a Postmaster-general. It was the
fault of Parliament alone. With regard to applying Mr.
Hill's plan to the two-penny post by reducing the charge to
a penny, it certainly involved a considerable amount of reve-
nue ; still he was sorry his Right Hon. Friend did not think
himself justified to try the experiment. He should be glad
to see it tried. He did not agree that the stamp covers was
the chief part of Mr. Hill's plan. The most important prin-
ciple of Mr. Hill's plan was the payment of the postage.
This was a part of the plan about which he (Mr. Labouchere)
had always entertained the greatest doubt. He very much
doubted the readiness of the public to acquiesce in a system
which would deprive them of all option, when sending letters,
whether to pay the postage or not. Upon the whole, he
thought it would be better to let the entire matter rest with
the Committee up stairs; and he:should be rather glad if his
Right Hon. Friend would not make any partial experiment
with regard to the stamped covers. He did not think it would
he likely to lead to much satisfaction.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
experiment of the stamped covers was not of his seeking. He
had not the slightest difficulty, if the same gentlemen who
first wished to see the experiment tried were now desirous
that it should be suspended, to accede to their request. With
regard to the observations of the Honourable Member for
Kilkenny as to the recommendations of the Commissioners
not having been acted upon, he (the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer) wished to remark, that it was much easier for
Commissioners and Members of Parliament to lay down a
principle than for those who were charged with the execution
of it to apply that principle. No principle was laid down more
authoritatively than that of applying the system of contracts
to our packet communications. Every body seemed to con-
sider that there was no port in which that experiment could
be better tried than in the port of Liverpool. Parties in.
formed him that if the unjust competition of the Government
packets against the owners of the commercial packets were
withdrawn, those owners were of that character that they
would undertake to discharge the duty of carrying the mail
for nothing. He and the Admiralty had been engaged from
that time to the present in trying whether they could obtain
such a contract, and what was the result? The only tender
which the Government had received, contrary to all the pre-
dictions made, was, that whereas the Government packets
yielded from passengers 21,0001. a year to the Government,
there were gentlemen in Liverpool generous and liberal
enough to offer to enter into a contract, not to carry the
mails for nothing, but for the sum of 34,000/. a year.—
( Hear, and laughter.

Captain PE-CI-JELL said that a petition had been for-
warded to him from his constituents only this day, for which
he was charged 1/. 175. 6d. postage ; and not having that
money about him, the postman carried away the petition, and
he (Captain Pechell) should have to hunt it out before he
could present it. True it was the postage was remitted by
the Post-office, but it was a mere farce first to charge it, and
then take it off again.
Sir JAMES DUKE complained of the unfrequency of the
twopenny-post delivery. Letters put in at Charing-cross at
three o'clock were not delivered in the City till six.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL could bear testimony to
the liberal conduct of the Post-office with regard to remitting
postage on petitions. He had received a petition from his
constituents, for which he was charged 461. 16s. 10d. The
money was paid, but the moment the case was represented to
the Post-office authorities, the amount was returned. The
reason this petition was charged was that it was not open at
both ends.

Captain PECHE LL—The petition sent to me was open
at both ends, and was in every respect in compliance with the
regulations.