The Sun.
London, England, 1854-02-25 00:00:00

Ellice ; and myself. (Hear.) As regards what the hon.
baronet said of the existing strength of the country, I must
remind those who think the present estimate is not large
ei.ough that I do not propose this as a war estimate to the
house. The Government wished to have their policy dis-
cussed before making any great augmentation. It may
not be so satisfactory to the whole house as to the honour-
able baronet, but I have to state that I must before long
bring before you a supplementary estimate. At present I
will not delay the house any further, but only move that
the number of land forces, officers, and men, for the en-
suing year, he 112,977.
Mr. HUME congratulated the Government oo the bene-
ficial working of the system of rewaros described by the
right hon. gentleman, and expressed satisfaction at his
statement as to the amount of deposits in the military
savings banks. With regard to the next point, his g illant
friend made some observations on the colonial service,
which he rather expected the right hon. gentleman to
notice. The colonial papers showed that there he ti. been
an increase of the military force in the colonies, but he
thought the explanations of the right hon. gentlemen
on that head were perfectly satisfactory. Bat there was
a class in our colonies where the reductions ought to
take place very carefully and gradually ; he meant those
formerly slave-holding colonies which had been injured
and ruined by the legislation of this country, apl where
it would require great pro twice to decide on to he
C,olda
reduc-
tion of the military force. Bat with regard
t
%
and Australia, he thought they ought to defray the Yhele
expenses of the troops they reeuirel,
some observation upon the non-efrective S 3 -1v.e must mike
us ice,iwilich
saw absorbed two millions of money, wh le t effec-
tive service only cost four millions. and that, too, after
the long peace that has occurred. 11, must say, however,
that there was nodepertuient in the G tvernment establish-
ments that was more improved then the.
th arm
education of the
soldiers, and the system of rewards th was adopte I—when
he saw all that the Government hail done, and all that they
were disposed to do, he could not bring himself to criticise
very minutely the details.
emastthe
l l,e-oxLes.; his cordial
men were pro-
posed to be raised,approbation of the way
ine
which
admitted that it was impassible
to devise any mode met h
which 11,0 )3 men con! I be added to
the army at less expense. Before sitting down he wished
to make one observation on a gross inj.istice (lone to the
mem,ter for R >Ace:ninon. That
hon. gentleman Government berstahied
that he and those arteueti hin concur-
red in the condemnation an 1 censure th ct had been cast on
the Government. Now, it soon 1e I very well out of doors
to say th et the hon. gentlein tn'e tonne unction was con-
curred in by these aroun 1 him, but it ought to be known
that there was not another member near the hoe. gentle.
man when he spoke—(laughter)—that the Opp tsition ben-
ches were entirely empty—(hear, and laughter) For him-
self, as a friend of peace, he thought th te. the Government
deserved praise instead of censure on account of their pro-
ceedings,and mast enter his proteet against these censures.
He concluded by congratulating the house and the tountry
on the improvement that hell taken place in the ondition
of the army, by which the men were stimuleted to good
conduct by hopes of reward, instead of being driven by
brute force.
Lord LOVAINE wished to ask his right hon. friend the
Secretary-at-War whether he di l not contemplate adding
at least one subaltern to each company, which he thought
was rendered necessary in tha present circumstances, when
the troops were entering into a formidable war, in an un-
healthy climate, and underuncertain auspices. He thought
the expense of such an addition would not be large, while
the efficiency of the force weal I be lireely increased.
Mr. JOHN M`GREre'OR egree-1 with the hon. member for
Montrose in thinking that the Government had acted with
the most consummate pru deice all through this dispute,
and that the ee..timatee had been drawn up with the utmost
regard to economy and efficiency. He wished to draw the
attention of the right hon. Secret try-at-W to the unfair
practice that prevailed in Scotland of billeting soldiers
upon private families, instead of, as in Englend, on public-
houses
Mr. WILLIAMS wished, before proceeding to remark
upon the estivates, to call the attention of tha noble lord
the member for the city of Loatton to the great inconveni-
ence that arose from the numerous notices of motion upon
the house going into committee of supply. He did not
wish to deprive hon. members of the opportunity of m %K-
-ing their motions, but the inc mvenieece which these mo-
tions occasion, by preventing a thorough investization
of the estimates, was so great that he thought something
ought to be done on the subject. Nearly four hours had
been lost to-night by the discussion of these motions, dur-
ing the greater part of which time there were not 40 mem-
bers present. So, on Monday night last, owing to the
discussion which took place, the three great votes of the
navy estimates—these which, in fact, embraced the whole
subject—were passe lat two o'clock in the morning. He
did not wish to stop hon. gentlemen from bringing forward
their motions, bat why could they not take the Wet Ines-
clays, when no business was at all transacted? To return
to the question of the estimates, he di I not wish to oppose
the vote for the efficiency of the force. He had hoped that
the vote now proposed would have been enough for the
year, but as the right hon. gentleman told them they were"
to have fresh estimates afterw irds, that w is an a Islitionel
reason why they should practice economy in every prac-
ticable way. List year his hen. friend the in amber for
Montrose called the attention of the house to the higher
pay of the three colonels of the foot ,nazis over those of
the regiments of the line. (Hear, hear.) The defence
then was, that those regiments were to be given only to
distinguished officers, and if that had been so, no one would
have objecte Ito it. But the regiment of the Greeedier
Guards had been given to Prince Albert, an-1 though his
royal
.highness held a high rank in the army, yet he did
not profess to be a soldier, and therefore the giving of thet
regiment to his royal highness was a violation of the prin-
ciple that had been laid down. The pay of that regiment
was 3,0001. The command of the Coldstream Guards was
given to that distinguished officer, Lord Strafford, anti
therefore he did not object to thit, theugh the ply was
the same. The pay of the colonel in the Fusilier Guerds,
which was held by the Duke of Cimoridge, was 2,1351.,
while he might state that the pay of the colonel of the '2,1
-Regiment of Foot was only 1,030/. He could not under-
stand why, if these offices were not to be considered in the
light of felted service pensions, aad given to distinguished
officers, there should be any difference between the pay of
a colonel in the g names and in the line. Bet there was
another point in connection with this matter which re-
quired attention. The practice of making an addition to
the colonel's pay by a profit upon the clothing of the regi-
ment was a degradation to the service, and made the colo-
nels, in fact, the tailors of their regiments. (Laughter.)
He was not against a proper allowance being made to the
colonels, but it ought to be veted openly, an-1 paid directly
in money. (Hear, hear.) He was astoniehed that so
exalted a, personage as his Royal Highness Prince Albert
should condescend to m tke a profit of 1,830/. a-year out of
the clothing of his regiment. Surely that was not consistent
with his position either as a soldier or a prince. He found
that the clothing of the artillery was provided 16 per cent.
cheaper than the other regiments, and yet it was in itself
far superior ; anti the same timing might be said of the ma-
rines. With regard to another point, the right hon. gentle-
man had celled their attention to the improved ch Lractee
and conduct of the soldier, anti he (Mr. Williams) was
glad to find that there was such a diminution in the num-
ber of punishments. Con tleti with that, there was a
great increase in the amount of money peid. as rewards for
good conduct. The system was only established in 1337,
when 1,914 men received 3,6301. ; the increase had been
continuous ever since, and there were now 30,900 men in
the receipt of the reward, which amounted to 63,9001. He
thought that this was likely to go on till it added a penny
a day to the soldier's pay all over the army • but if it im-
proved the character and conduct of the soldier, and saved
a single back from the lash, he could not object to it.
(Hear.) After asking for explanations for the vote on
regimental schoolmistresses, and for encampments, he said
he observed that the army wag 12,030 short of the num-
bers voted last year, and he wished to know what saving
had been effected in consequence of this deficiency in the
army compared with the numbers voted.
Mr. LAING said it must be obvious that the number
of men now asked for by the Government involved the
question as to how tete war was to he carried on. Now., as
he believed that an increase of 11,000 men did not hold out
any security that the war would be vigorously and effi-
ciently prosecuted, it was with great satisfaction lie heard
the right hon. the Secretary-at-War state that a supple-
mentary estimate was to be brought before the house who,
under ordinary circumstances, would think it their duty
rigidly to criticise the estimates, and to object to any fur-
ther increase in the forces, but who, in the present circnie
stances, considered that the only true economy was in
voting such a number of men and supplies as were neces-
sary for carrying on the war with vigour. (Hear, hear.)
The amount of injury which the country hail already
sustained by the mere apprehension of war was far
greater than would have been supposed. That floating
mass of property which was contained in the funds,
railway securities, anti such like, and. which was gene-
rally estimated at a thousend millions sterling, had
suffered a depreciation of not less than 10 per cent.,
being a total loss of a hundre 1 'Milieus, (Hear, hear.)
hear.) He wished, instead of the criticism that had taken
place on the past conflict of the Government, some sub-
stantial motion had been proposed, on which the house
might have expressed its opinion by a vote. They would
thus have shown to foreign countries the unanimity of
their feelings on this question; and the Government would
have been able with more freedom, and with a more undi-
vided responsibility, to take such steps as they thought
necessary for bringing this war to a speedy and a successful
termination.
Colonel BLAIR rose to complain of the remarks which
the hon. member for Lambeth had made upon the colonels
in the guards, which he said could not have been made at,
a worse time. One of those colonels, the Duke of Cam-
bri;:ge, was no drawing-room officer ; he had gone with
his regiment to foreign service, and he did not deserve to
be branded as a tailor to the army. With respect to his
Royal Highness Prince Albert, though it was true he was
not bred to the army, yet, having served under his Royal
Righnese's command, he cold I testify to the extraordinary
care he took over the comfort and welfare of the men.
Mr. WILLIAMSIt
explained. was the systems be con-
-emu—it
; he had not said a word against the colonels,
an itili,litsition be wished. to elevate, by relieving them of
Mr. tituAlrdistinction.
gentleman He COTE called the attention of the right hon.
dress Secretary-at-War to the difference ie the
worn by the
officers anti privates, by which the for-
mer, always sutri
ci
unne-
cessarily
exrently lavish of their blood, were unne-
that great loeftmea s was
to the fire of the enemy. It was notoriou-
in the late American war on
that account, andB !USt"i"(l
he
knew from high authority that the
Emperor of Russia n
abolished all distinction in dress
between the officers and
this matter would meet the men of his army. He trusted
hon, friend. with the consideration of his right
Sir DE LACY
colone , as they wereEVAlse%
cauelid the practice of having tailor
ls
an old remnant of anti-
quity, which had existed, hel°3:ll
tli:.l,ec.t of the retirement
objected to a commission on th, senvi"d, for 150 years. He
eneral officers, of the aged g
of the length of them before 'e
was to remove the responeibility 4,4,0tir,i).d. that its objE'et
"Mho ought te
bear it, and
Wita respect to the the house could
have any result. clothing of the
troops, it was notorious that the French troops wer • ti
anti
nitely better clothed th ours, and Our inferiority 'i e the-
respect was attributable to the old remnant of
to which he had just referred. He knew very will that
the Commander-in-Chief, whose opinion was entitled t e
the greatest respect, he ti deeire:,. veryfrock
to alter the
clothing of the soldier, by substituting rock coats
f
paltry jackets in which our to serve
troops were now teeing t
abroad ; but one of the principal (-mem ;of e
the alteration,not having been carried into effect was the existing systemto
of contracts. He thought it was not be endured that
13• our soldiers were to servo Memel during. the approaching
waif it might perhaps b 3 for several years, iu clothing
rgreatlyeinferior to that of our allies.
Colonel DUN N'l4 ,b 1. g••e 1 to say a few words with respect
ee,
to the wives anti children of the soldiers going abread.
%.--- ,112„0 „v/4 no subject of more importance to the well-being
,a4dcotiefetet of the soldiers going out on service then the
e--estaitein Which they left their wives and children. There
eivatal ways a cenel separation in such cases ; brit that was
toteallo Most of these poor women anti children were
'th'r`ei-in to fall back on their parishes, on which they became
a blade% and very often Mead vicious habits, whilst the ,