The Sun.
London, England, 1853-04-27 00:00:00

NEW MEMBER.

Mr. BIINBURY took the oaths and his seat for the
the county of Carlow.

SOUTH SEA. &c., ANNUITIES.

The house then divided on the clause of Sir F. Kelly,
The numbers were—
For the clause 6l
Against it

Majority 67
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL then moved the clause,
the purport of which is given above.
After some observations from the CHANCELLOR of the
EXCHEQUER, the clause was agreed to.
Another clause was proposed by the SoLicrron-GENE-
RAL with regard to the hearings in the Court of Chancery.
Mr. HUME hoped that as the judges of the court
were well paid, a provision would be made for enabling
parties to have a hearing without any expense. (Laughter.)
Mr. HENLEY observed that it was a new doc-
trine to lay down, that because the judges were
paid, therefore, the practitioners in the court should
forego their fees. (Hear, hear.) He doubted very much
whether the Solicitor-General would agree to the sug-
gestion of the hon. member. (Laughter.) He thought
it was a great hardship to drag parties into the Court of
Chancery, when the only result would be to frit away the
funds that were in the hands of the trustees, and to place
money in the pockets of the lawyers.
After some further discussion the clause was added
to the bill. Another amendment was also introduced
into the bill for the purpose of restricting the issue of
the New Three-an d-a-Half per Cent. Stock to 30,000,0001.,
the same limit that is placed upon the New Two-and-a-
Half per Cent. Stock.
The bill was then read a third time and passed.
CLONMEL ELECTION.

COUNTY RATES EXPENDITURE BILL.
The further progress in committee of this bill was
postponed until this day week. -
SOUTH SEA AND OTHER ANNUITIES
COMMUTATION BILL.
On the motion for the third reading of this bill,
Sir. F. KELLY, after apologising for his absence last
night, when the bill was brought under the consideration
of the house at a late hour, which was entirely owing to
his ignorance that the bill was on the notice paper. Im-
portant as the measure was it was most desirable that
it should not be hurried through with too great haste or
precipitation. (Hear.) He bad two clauses to propose—
one to regulate the mode of conversion of stock
by parties beneficially interested or trustees.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that a clause had been prepared to carry out the object
which the hon. and learned gentleman had in view, but
as the Solicitor-General, who had drawn it up, was for
the moment absent, perhaps the hon. and learned gentle.
man would postpone moving his first clause until the
return of the Solicitor-General.
Sir FITZROY KELLY said he would willingly
postpone his first clause, and proceed to the second,
which was to limit the creation of two-and-a-half per
cent. stock (proposal No. 2) to ten millions. He be-
lieved that there was no instance of any great operation
shown, as was proposed by the Government, having
been elected solely by the means, and at the rate fixed
absolutely by the Finance Minister. The usual mode
was to submit the bargain to public competition, and
in this mode it was easily ascertained what were the
lowest terms on which the public were willing to effect
the operation. Either the Chancellor of the Exchequer
possessed the gift of divination to which other men were
strangers, or , else he was advancing Ilindly into the
money market, careless of the loss which he might pro-
duce to the public by the manner of his operation. He,
therefore, wished to limit the scope of such a blind
operation.
The CHANCELLOR, of the EXCHEQUER said he
objected to the proposal of the hon. and learned gentle-
man, both on the ground of precedent and reason. He
must give a most, unqualified and positive denial to the
statement of the hon. and learned gentleman, that there
was no instance of a Finance Minister having proceeded
in the manner in which he now proposed to act. In
point of fact, he was persuaded that he was now pur-
suing the very course I which had always been
proposed-in cases of conversion of stock. No doubt,
in point of technical law, the stock which they were
about to create was a new stock ; but in fact it was a
mere conversion, and not creation, of stock which they
were about to effect. He admitted that the Exchequer
Bonds which he proposed to create were a new stock ;
but here he proposed not a fixed rate, but according
to what could be obtained in the market, due care of
course being taken of the interest of the public. With
regard to the reasonableness of the hon. and learned
gentleman's proposition, he contended that there never
• had been such a thing known as to raise money in the
market for the purpose of applying it to the extinction
of stock. In doing that, the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer would be creating just an artificial scarcity
in the market by going into it to borrow
30,000,0001., and then directly after an artificial glut
when he went in to pay off the stock. Such a proceed.
ing would be most irrational, and cause enormous loss
to the public. The operation which was now proposed
would not, in fact, increase the amount of debt, as the
fund which would be at the same time provided by the
house would reduce the debt to a much greater amount
than that by which it would be necessarily increased by
this operation. If the operation were limited to the sum
proposed by the hon. and learned gentleman it would be
much too small ever to come properly into the view of the
public, and would not afford a fair test of the working
of the principle on which it was founded. The objection
of the hon. member for Huntingdon (Mr. Baring), who
spoke on Friday night in favour of the hon. and learned
gentleman's motion, was that even 30,000,0001. was too
small a sum fairly to test the principle, and he (the
Chancellor of the Exchequer) could certainly not con-
sent to reduce its scope to 10,000,0001. alone.
Mr. HUME thought the mode of operation was the
very best which could be adopted.
Mr. SPOONER said that the bargain was a bad one
altogether, and a great deal too much in favour of the
iswitalist. The balance against the state aad in favour
of the capitalist would be about 7 per cent. It was on
that ground he supported the motion of his hon. and
learned friend. He thought, looking at our prospects'
of prosperity, that 40 years was too long a period to
guarantee a fixed rate of interest merely for the sake of
the miserable saving between paying 21. 17s. 9d., and 31.
per cent. He thought it was the height of folly to tie up
the hands of the Chancellor of the Exchequer for so long a
period, taking into account the fluctuating and uncertain
state of things in the money market, and the large im-
portations of gold into the country.
Mr. WILKINSON supported the amendment.
Sir F. KELLY said it was not his intention to go to
a division, because be did not think he was justified in
opposing his own judgment to the declared opinion of
the house. Though he had ventured to differ from the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, he should exceedinglyrejoice
to find that his experiment had succeeded, and that He
had proved not only unjust to the state, but advanta-
geous to the shareholder.
Mr.
WILLIAMS would have been glad if the right
hon. gentleman could have made a better bargain for
s
the public, but he was obliged to look at the great diffi-
culties which beset him in dealing with this 500,000,0001.
of stock.
Re thought
on
the propositions which he had
made
to the pwould
üblic. the whole be productive of great benefit
The clause was then withdrawn.
Sir F. KELLY then
clause for regulating the
mode for the conversion of
stock held by trustees in trust others.
Mr. HUME approved of the objectr of the clause.
he SOLICITOR-GENERAL
apprehended existedi on this subject.
hended that no
iclehthi
substantial difference of o
He bad drawn up himself a clause which
would meet the views of the hon. and learnedle thought
member.
It wrs to the effect that all persons holding stock
trust for the benefit of others, should not beatFtiyn
to commute that stock without tlas consent in writing I The fourth annual meeting of the British Ladies' Fe-
of all the persons beneficially interested, or in the event male Emigration Society for providing matrons, books,
of their being minors or under legal disabilities, without and employment during the voyage, visiting ships, &c.,
the consent of the Court of Chancery. The clause also wasTh held this afternoon, at the Hanover-square Rooms.
:or
Re ell2r‘
provided for an appeal to that court when the parties
TehEe Earl
oobfl elleat i noccupied addressingt
he chair.
beneficially interested differed as to the propriety of con-
verting the stock.
the meeting —a
that art of the clause ver crowd
Mr. MITCHELL objected to t p Y. ed one—said in
he conseut of the Court of Chancery. public feeling as regards effect whatever may be the
requiring t
LEY ned the house of the danger that the means of emigration, it cannot be doubted
Mr. S. WORT warinstruction andprofitable
'sdiction of that court to these should be provided to employment
of extending the
jun 00 000/. of stock, a vast portion ralization of idleness andcounteract the certain demo-
Of the 500,0 ,
of this soviet large ignorance. By the agency matters.
trustees, and the expense of an y mass of persons,
81. gathered togs=
was in the hands of
n which the ther at the depot, and on board
ry WOW) cases ship, are brought'
application to Chance

The SPEAKER informed the house that he had re-
ceived a letter from the agent in the case of the Clon-
mel election, stating that it was not his intention to
proceed in the said petition.
IRISH COURT OF CHANCERY.

Mr. WHITESIDE moved for leave to bring in a bill
to facilitate the sale, partition, and exchange of lands by
the Court of Chancery in Ireland, and the recovery of
moneys secured by recognisances in the said court. His
object for introducing this bill was to extend the machi-
nery of the Irish Court of Chancery, in order to facilitate
the proceedings of the Encumbered Estates Court. The
operations of this court had not failed from any inatten-
tion or want of zeal on the part of its officers, but from
a defect in the act of Parliament. The consequence
was that at the present moment there were no less
than 1,000 encumbered estate eases undisposed of, with
a locked-up capital amounting, in round numbers, to
4,000,0001. in money. Under the existing law, the
attorney who first commenced the suit in the court got
the management of the estate, to the exclusion of all
other attorneys or agents who had previously superin-
tended its affairs. Now, the principal object of this
bill was to remove this anomaly, and to secure to the
parties who were the best entitled to it the power
of winding up the affairs of an encumbered estate
under the authority of the Encumbered Estates Commis-
sioners. The law, as it now stood, held out a premium to
fraud, for the Encumbered Estates Court had no power
to appoint a receiver, like the Court of Chancery, and an
attorney who wanted to entangle an encumbered estate
in the meshes of the laws had nothing else to do but
file a petition in the Encumbered Estates Court, and
the management of the estates passed into his hands. If
the parties in possession or otherwise, wished then to have
a receiver appointed, their only remedy was a bill
in the Court of Chancery. Now, the object of this bill
was to remove all these evils by engrafting upon the
Irish Court of Chancery the simple powers of the origi-
nal Encumbered Estates Court. It would anthorise
parties who wished it to file a petition, which should
be short and cheap, in the Court of Chancery for
the sale of their estates, and the Court should have power
to order an immediate sale of the whole or a portion of
the estate. Another provision of the bill was this—
Under the existing law an estate could not be thrown into
Incumbered Estate Court, unless it was incumbered to

the extent of its zental value ; but, by this bill, a man
who had an estate that was only partially incumbered
should be enabled to get rid of such incumbrance
by selling a portion of his estate under the authority'of
the Court of Chancery, which would be tantamount to
giving him a Parliamentary title that would be
saleable in the market both cheaply and expedi-
tiously. He anticipated that the effect of this new

law would be to get rid of the 1,000 estates, and relieve
the 4,000,0001. now locked up in the encumbered
estates, because if the bill passed the parties inte-
rested in them would have power to transfer their
petitions to the Court of Chancery, and he therefore
trusted the house would throw no difficulty in the way of
his introducing the bill that he no w asked leave to bringin.
Sir J. YOUNG stated on the part of the Government,
that there was no objection to the introduction of the
bill, but at the same time it was right that he should
add, that the Government had a similar measure under
its consideration, and therefore he could hold out no
hope that this bill would either be supported or facili-
tated by the Government.

Mr. I'ITZGERALD, as an !Irish lawyer, bore his
testimony to the usefulness of the Encumbered Estates
Court, and declared it to be his opinion that if the Legis-
lature gave full scope to its machinery, he saw no reason
why land should not become just as much a marketable
commodity as goods, manufactures, or agricultural
produce. He took exception to the figures which
had been stated by the hon. and learned gentle-
man who made this motion, and announced his intention
to oppose any proposal for the absortion of the functions
of the Incumbered Estates Court of the Court of Chan-
cery. Still there was much good in this bill, and so far
as its practical reforms were concerned, he would give it
his hearty support. _ _

Mr. gAPIER said the object of this species of legis-
lation ought to be to give the public what they really
wanted, namely, facilities of sale and security for title.
That end, he believed, would be attained by this bill,
and he should have no hesitation in awarding it his sup-
port.

- Mr. V. SCULLY said he should offer no opposition to
the motion for bringing in the bill, but he most certainly,
should resist any proposal for vesting the sale of encum-
bered estates in the Court of Chancery. Before the
establishment of the Encumbered Estate Court, the
Court of Chancery enjoyed jurisdiction over en-
cumbered estates, and the manner in which it exer-
cised its functions in that respect, showed that
it was incompetent to the task. The fact was
the mischief of the present system lay in this—the
jurisdiction of the Encumbered Estates Court was
too much restricted by far, and he hoped before the
house consented to dispose of this bill it would be
good enough to remember that he had given notice
of his intention on the 10th of May tomove for leave to
bring in a bill with the view of remedying that defect.
Mr. GEORGE said the time had come when the ex-
traordinary powers of the Incumbered Estate Court
ought to be transfirred to the ordinary tribunals of the
land, and he was glad to hear that the Government of-
fered no opposition to the introduction of this bill.
Leave was then given to bring in the bill.
The other orders of the clay were then disposed of,
and the house adjourned at six o'clock.

FEMALE EAHORATION.--(THIS DAY).