The Sun.
London, England, 1853-06-17 00:00:00

and learned gentleman said he stood face to face with his I
noble friend. He (Sir J. Pakington) stood face to face
with the hon and learned gentleman. He 'did not come
down prepared to speak, and therefore he had not the
documents with him, but if the language attributed to the
hon. and learned gentleman during the last election was
correctly reported—if it wag true that he had spoken as he
did of the Ecclesiastical Titles Act, and .that he had
physically trampled it under foot—if' it was true that the
lion. and learned gentloina.n made one of the most solemn
appeals to the Deity, in words the most solemn that could
be used, that he never would take office under any Govern-
ment which did not make Mr. Sharman Crawford's Tenant
Right Bill a Cabinet question—if it were true that he
made the speeches attributed to him at Carlow and West-
meath. then he (Sir J. Pakington) would say that the
noble lord (Eglinton) was justified in characterising the
appointment of the hon. awl learned gentleman as he hail
done. (Hear.) His noble friend (Lord Naas) had made a
clear, manly, honourable, and straightforward statement,
which left nothing to be desired. The other issue in the
question remained to be cleared up. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. KEOGH hoped the house would indulge him for a
few minutes after the speech of the right hon: baronet,
which opened up new ground. But before doing so he
begged to express his acknowledgments to the ,lat hon.
gentleman (Mr. Disraeli) for the kind, generous, and, he
feared, undeserved expressions he used towards him on the
present occasion. (Hear, hear.) As far as the attack on
his personal character was concerned, the language of the
right hon. gentleman so used was to him an ample vindi-
cation and complete compensation for the imputation cast
upon him elsewhere. (Hear, hear.) But after the house
had been engaged in discussing for nearly three hours so
insignificant a question as anything that related personally
to him, and after the complete vindication and justification
of the offer of office to him on the part of the right hon.
gentleman, the right hon. baronet had preferred a new
charge—a charge new and perfectly unsafe. (Hear, hear.)
With regard to the physical performance attributed to
him in respect to the Ecclesiastical Titles Act, he entirely
disavowed it. (Hear, hear.) And so far from making any
speeches on that subject, no meetings were held to his
knowledge with respect to it since the late Government
came into office. (" No, no—that is not the question.")
That was the whole gist of the accusation. (Hear, hear.)
He had stated at the commencement of his speech that he
would not be dragged into any other matter but the one
before the house as long as an investigation with regard to
it was peading in the other house. Let any new charges
be brought forward against him, and be would be prepared
at the proper time an place to meet them, and to dispose
of them as satisfactorily and effectually as he did the pre-
sent. (Hear, hear.) If there was a difference between the
noble lord and him, he asked the house and the public to
contrast the statement of the noble lord with all the ad-
missions made. Let them consider and weigh the statement
in his letter, in which he gave nothinc, but a dry denial,
and in comparing the admissions and denials let them take
up the letter of a man whom the noble lord did not venture
to impeach, whose veracity he did not even suggest that ho
could call in question, and let them reconcile that document
with the declaration that, the noble lord never mentioned
the conversation to any 'unman being till within the last
week.

Mr. WHITESIDE Said, that the noble lord having re-
ferred to the motion made against Lord Clarendon, in
which he took no part., considering it would be contrary to
etiquette, as he had been one of the counsel in the case, he
could never listen tr, a minister of the Crown in a country
where public morality and public principles were professed
to be respected, ciuloiizing and justifying that transaction,
without giving "to that justification an indignant denial—a
denial of its propriety and justice. (Hear, hear.) He could
not forget thr ,t it had been proved that gold had been rolled
out by the_ fiord-Lieutenant to obtain the panegyrics of a
newspaper'for the Government. (Hear, hear.) But he
would no',; speak on that subject, as the hon. and learned
gentleman had abstained from doing so.
Mr. Y;.EOGH was understood to say that the hon. and
learmid gentleman had offered him his notes of the case in
the lc,bby. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. WHITESIDE said, when he next spoke to thehon.
an.4l learned gentleman, he thought it would be desirable
to, have 300 persons present. (Loud laughter.) If the
speeches and conduct attributed to the hon. and learned
gentleman by the newspapers were correct, then he would
say that the noble lord (Eglinton) was justified in the use
of the language he applied to the hon. and learned gen-
tleman in another place. When a Minister of the Crown
should be found who laid it down as his rule that those
should be elevated to the offices of State who were the most
distinguished in the walks of agitation, the effect of that
principle in reference to Ireland would be, that learning,
industry, and the quiet pursuit of any profession would be
regarded rather as impediments to promotion, and it would
be understood that the true mode of obtaining the favour
of the Minister was to open a school of agitation, or a nur-
sery of sedition. (Hear, hear.)
Lord H. BENTINCK fully agreed with the hon. and
learned gentleman, the Solicitor-General for Ireland, that
nothing could be more painful than these personal discus-
sions. Much time had been wasted that evening on matters
of comparatively minor importance. Out of that house, if
not in it, the hon. and learned gentlemanhad been charged
with having pledged himself in the most distinct and so-
lemn manner, not only never to hold office in, but never to
tolerate the existence of, any Government which was not
prepared to carry out certain conditions. The conditions had
not been fulfilled, and yet the hon. and learned gentleman
held office at that moment. (Hear, from the Opposition.)
A more serious charge than any preferred that evening was
made against the Government a short time ago by the
hon. member for New Ross (Mr. G. Duffy)—a charge of
profligacy of the grossest description—(oh, oh)—and no
explanation had been vouchsafed.
Mr. VANCE said it was very seldom that he differed in
opinion from the right hon. gentleman for Buckingham-
shire, whose Administration he came to that house to sui
port ; but he was compelled. to (lifer from him in reference
to one observation which he had made that evening. The
right hon. gentleman said be should not have been sur-
prised or displeased had office been conferred on the hon.
and learnedraember for Athlone (Mr. Keogh) by the Ad-
ministration with which he was connected. Ho (Mr.
Vance) could only say that the constituency whom he re-
presented would have been both surprised and displeased
at such an event—(hear)—and one of their gravest grounds
of objection was the fact of his having always avowed and
supported ultra-montane principles. (Hear.) He felt
bound to give this honest expression of his opinion.

SUCCESSION DUTY BILL.

On the order of the day for going into committee on this

bill,
Sir W. JOLLtFFE said he was sorry to interpose any
delay to the Speaker's leaving the chair; but he must take
that opportunity of making an appeal to the right hon.
gentleman with regard to the mode in which the object of
this measure was to be carried out. He wished to give the
Government full credit for believing that the burdens of
taxation were at present unequal, and that the landed in-
terest was not sufficiently taxed. While doing this, how-
ever, he must observe that the infliction of the tax itself
would be far less disastrous than the mode in which it
was to be levied. (Hear.) For many years it had been
part of his almost daily occupation to have a good deal to
do with rateable property, either as trustee, guardian, or
as executor. If he were informed on any subject what-
ever, he was on that ; and the result of his experience
generally was, that whereas the legacy duty generally
pressed very severely, and was a cruel and most ungracious
anode of taxation, the pressure of the evil was immensely
exaggerated when the tax could not be levied without
calling in legal aid. (Hear, hear.) He wished to impress
on the iight ion. gentleman and the Government that, by
passing the bill with its present extraordinary provisions,
they would inflict upon rateable property a degree of ex-
pense and of inconvenience, and would insure the exercise
of a degree of tyranny which had never been caused by the
institution of any previous tax. (Hear.) If it was neces-
sary that rateable property should bear the proposed
burden, he for one was ready to bow down his back to the
yoke ; but he entreated the Government and the house not
to inflict the tax upon land in the manner proposed. The
proposition which he wished to make was not at all origi-
nal, nor was it in fact inimical to the spirit of the measure.
The more he looked at the measure, the more it seemed to
him to have the joint operation of a postponed land tax and
a postponed property tax. The proposition of the right
bon. gentleman with regard to corporations aggregate was,
he understood, that they should be subjected to a perma-
nent property tax, that that tax should, during the conti-
nuance of the property try, be 3d. in the pound, and that
after its cessation it should be raised to 6d. He entreated
the right hon. gentleman and the Government to concede
to him that arrangement. He entreated this for the sake
of themselves—he entreated it for the sake of that house,
which must be detained for an extraordinary length of
time by the consideration of these complications ; he en-
treated it in order that the Legislature might be saved
from the discredit of inflicting alax which they had never
borne, and which in all probability, indeed certainly, the
great majority of them could never bear. His appeal to
the Government was, that they should postpone for one
night the committee on the bill ; that they should take
twenty-four hours to reconsider the matter, and then tell
the house whether it was not possible to extend a proposi-
tion which had been considered just, as regarded one par-
ticular class of owners of property, to all who might be in-
terested in the measure. (Hear, hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he was
very sorry that, in accordance with what he considered his
absolute duty, he must decline to discuss the general bear-
ing and operation of the bill on that occasion, and that on
grounds of a very simple character. He must remind the
hon. baronet that, on Monday night, the motion for going
into committee having been debated at considerable length,
the debate having come to a natural conclusion, no hon.
gentleman having proposed an adjournment, anti the house
Laving determined to go into committee, the Speaker left
the chair, which was taen by the chairman of committees.
Upon that, the natural course for him (the Chancellor of
the Exchequer) to have taken would have been to move
that the chairman should report progress, and then the
Speaker would at once have left the chair. But there
being certain amendments—very slight ones, in comparison
with the importance of the bill—which the Government in-
tended to introduce, it appeared to him that it would be
for the convenience of members to have the bill in their
hands when it went into committee as nearly s possible
in the exact state in which it would be finally proposed.
He therefore rose in his place and said that, if it was the
understanding on the part of the house that the bill
should go into committee on Thursday, he would on that
(Monday) evening move that it should be committed pro
forma, and put the amendments in the hands of the
chairman, in order that the bill might be reprinted with
them. After he had spoken there was that silence which
implied consent. Accordingly the bill went into commit-
tee ; he did put the amendments into the hands of the
chairman ; and he had never before known an instance in
vehadhicahp,paefaterasuch an understanding had prevailed, there
the formal right the slightest inclination to take advantage of
raise .üb._ which every member undoubtedly had to
speaker fr'ecitlllently a general debate, and prevent the
or not hon. having
the chair. He did not know whether
night ;the hui baronetc heard what took place on Monday
general
Chancellor of tart,,ainlY remained silent • and he (tho
breach of the -r•xelle tier) could not be a party to a
undastanding which was come to on
Monday.
Sir W. JOLLIFPE
r'N understood to declare that had been ignorant Whaltv
arse the Government
meantat lie
pursue, and that on the to
e,e'"
C
made the same appe
postponed, he should have uestion that the p
r eaal le
thatble hb ee
had done that evenine.
The house then went into orariaittee.
On clause 1,
Mr, HENLEY wished to ,
father domiciled in America, letl,owrorweitether, where a
>ught to son settled here, that the son ftP y. to an English
pay -accession duty
un property in America ?
po
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said that the univea
law was that a man dying autead had his estate admirnsisl-
tared according to the law of the country where he died.
But if a man died abroad, snd made a will, leaving a
variety of successive interestsr and the property subjected
thereto were brought to this 4.)untry and invested in the
English funds, then every interest arisingafter the removal
of the property to England would be taxed.
Mr. HENLEY said that he
did not ask about property
in England, but about property in America.
The SOLICITOR-GENETIAL Said that he had already