The Sun.
London, England, 1838-02-07 00:00:00

aware until lately. The question was, whether the syst, m
proposed by the Right Hon. Gentleman was the best that I
could be adopted. The Right Hon. Gentleman has alluded
to certain agreements which he has made with certain par-
tics. Now, he would put it to him whether it would
not be better that those agreements should be laid
before the House.—(Hear, hear.) He had seen many
objections from Scotland as to the arrangements made,
and finding considerable fault with the conduct of the Trea-
sury, in applying the money voted by Parliament for the
purpose of building school-houses to the support of school-
masters--certainly, an object very wide of that which
was contemplated. The great object of the petitions which
he had seen from Scotland, was, that the plan of the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer, should be, that the public funds
should not be placed in the hands or under the controul of
tlmEe who represented only a portion of the community.
He (Mr. Hume) doubted the propriety of proceeding to
grant any more money, until the Government laid before the
House a general plan, and individuals had been appointed
responsible to enter into the real state of the coun-
try, and lay their recommendations before the House.
The public money ought not to be placed in the hands of
a particular class in the country, but the system ought to
be based upon a wider footing. He (Mr. Hume) had been
considerably disappointed that the Government had not in-
troduced some plan for promoting education in this country
as well as in Scetland, and by which the money voted for that
purpose should be applied under responsible management.
It was really lamentable to see the state of ignorance. in
which many of these parishes were. In a petition which
he had occasion to present not long since on this subject,
there were out of 150 signatures 4'2 marks. He found also
by the Report that in one of these parishes, containing a
population of 1,095 souls, there were only 17'2 children,
between the ages of five and fifteen, who could read, and
96 who could write, making a proportion of 1 in
He ventured to express a doubt whether the plan ought
not to be more generally extended, and thought they ought
to know the principle on which the money was applied, and
in whose hands it was placed, before they voted any more
money.
Mr. COLQUHOUN said the money was not wanted
for the building of schoohhouses or the building of mas-
ters' houses, but for the salary of the master. The
Hon. Member had stated that that was an interference
with the general system of education which he had devised,
and which, at some future period, he would feel it his
duty to submit to the House. The Hon. Gentleman
stated that it was a narrow system—that it was a
system in which tco much controul and influence was
given to clergymen, and that they possessed undue influ-
encs, in these schools. But the Hon. Member must satisfy
the House that there were objections which would weigh
taints the people of Scotland, and he would quote the autho-
rity of an Hon. Member who entertained large and liberal
views on the subject of education—he meant the Hon.
Member for Waterford (Hear, hear,) who had
stated that the evils of Ireland had arisen from the in-
adequacy of education, and that they were perfectly curable
under the controul and superintendence of a proper system.
If the Hon. Gent., would only look at Mr. Wyse's Essay,
he would find very strong and emphatic testimony on this
subject ; and he spoke ill terms highly laudatory of parochial
education in Scotland and of the exertions the General
Assembly hal male. As the Honourable Member
Lad called him up by the observations he had mad..., p
haps, he could allow him to state that he hoped the sins-
tem which had been applied so suitably ton sm ell section
of tho Highlands of Scotland, would be introduced goner illy.
There were in the Highlands of Sentland2lll parishes ; the
Hon. Gentleman's Bill wits applicable to only 41. The law of
Ssotland required there should ho one school in each parish.
The average extent of the p-triduis in the Highlands was
;350 square miles, and the sum provided by lam WAS wholly
inadequate to the wants of the population. The masters
were starved down to the lowest scale. And sach was
the effect of the voluntary system, that the average
remuneeation of the sclalohn .stern was la a veer, and,
in the Shetlands, no more than 3/. The landed
proprietors had by voluntary subscription raised money for
the support of a great number of sehoele, but es th-y were
not sufficient, the inhabitants had appliel to the Right
honourable Gentleman, who hail most wisely ensile to tlia;
House upon the subject.. So imperfect was e location in the
part to winch he referred, that no lesS thin 30,009 persons
could not write, 15,000 c.mld not read, and no less than 6,009
ellildren were totally deprived of attending schools at a''.
In the small section of the Highlands to which the Right
lion. Gentleman had referred, there were wanting at least
100 schools, arid he believed that the proposition of the
It :silt Hon. Gentleman was to increase them only to 49.
The Hon. Member proceeded to state some instances of
the strong attachment of the highlanders to education
_AI; persons. without reference to party pohties, without in-
curring the risk of being infiuenced:by sectarian rn wires,
would pay their gratJul testimony of approbation to the
lii r!.t. Hen. Gentleman for the introduction of this tw!asure.

Mr. WYSE said notwithstanding the great munificence
of the people—notwithstanding all the energies of the
Church—still it was an acknowledged fact that all
had failed in prof fling sufficient schools—suficielt
school-houses to supply the wants of the people ;
therefore those who attended to the subject must conic to
the conclusion, that volubtar3 lien avv, not sufficient to meet
the wants or the people, and that State interfcreece., i
orrice to be efficient, must be carriedout to its fullest extent
It the Hon. Gentleman had carried his ohse.rvationsei little
further, he would have found thst he (Mr. W.) stated
that the system of education in Scotl..n.l showed what
n,ialit be done by giving it greeter efficient: What the
Ilenouraele Member for Kilkenny h complained of was,
not that it was not good, but that it was not good
ceough—( Hear, hear)—not that. it did not offer
sonic good to the people of Saotiand, but that it did
not give all that the popnlatien of S (Aland requ:r.id
Ail the lion. Merida...li for Kilkenny desired W-13, that if all
this money were granted for building schools in Seothaeil a
sufile:ent guarantee should he given, that in the buiitling of
schools a proper system of education should he carried
on w:thin their walls. Thet conk! not be elf...cited un-
s, such a holy was appointed as would be respon-
,ible to Grn.ernitient for the conduct. of these schools.
..ens unworthy the intellect of that House to sit thcre
meet after nielit voting away large sums, unless a proper
responsible guarantee was afforded them for their ap-
not, they would fled that the steal would
resent iti large promise and miseraqv small perforne,nee.
Mr W. CAMPBELL did n }t intend to trouble the
Huse with many observations, because be agreed with a
rod deal of what had fallen from the previous speakers.
He pelt most grateful to the Chancellor of the
Exchequer
fer bringing this measure before the House. Persons
in Scotland were ready to arne forward analpay say sum
fir the purpose of buildiee sel-..001s and schookholliC3.
'l'nee were also ailliug to giv,t lands for glebe holves, but
the difficuity was to find s tiaries far the sehoo'rnasters.
Teis he lAi...ved the Bill of the Chancellor of
the Exchequer intended to do. 'rite Church of • Scotland
was oaly superintendeet of those S2book to see that im-
proper persons did not fill situations connected with them.
Trio Ministers of the Church of Scotland were super-
intendents of the masters, and moreover, cue of the
greate,t, philanthropists that had existed since the days
of Howard was expending his time, his money, and his
labour, in promoting normal schools. He (Mr. W. Camp-
bell), as a Scottish Highlander, and a person haring
an estate in that part of the empire, felt grateful to the
Chancellor of the Exchequer for the measure he had
brought forward.
Mr. R. STEUART had seen with great satisfac-
tion the introduction of this measure by his Right Hon.
for he was convinced from the first that it
would lead to a general inquiry into the
system of education in Scotland. The state of
the Schoolmasters in the Highlands was what it was 000
years ago.—( Hear, hear, hear.) Ht then ranked
next to the Clergyman, and was supposed to be the
next person to him, with respect to education, in the
parish ; but look at the difference of their incomes—that
of the Clergyman was increased, while that of the School=
master was exactly the same. The present Bill was in his opi-
nion a step towards bettering the condition of that class of
men. He (Mr. S.) thought his Right Hon. Friend would
secure to himself the gratitude of the country for his en-
deavours on behalf of education in Scotland.
Mr. WALLACE thought the masters ought not to be
chosen for life ; but as it was in Scotland, in former
times, only so long as they devoted all their energies
to their work.—(Hear.) It would be his endeavour
in the progress of the Bill to introduce this provision.
Mr. GILLON said his Hon. Friend the Member for
Greenock had not too strongly characterised the present
system of education in Scotland. It was not only faulty,
but disgraceful. It was not so much money that was wanting
to improve the system, but the taking away of its present
sectarian character.
Captain GORDON expressed the gratification which
he felt at the proposition of the Right Hon. Gentleman
the Chancellor of the Exchequer.
Mr. BO RTH WICK hoped that the Chancellor of the
Exchequer would extend the principle of the Bill to Ire-
land as well as to Scotland.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, in re-
ply, said that the system proposed was one of normal semi-
naries, and in accordance with the old parochial regulations
of Scotland.
After a few words from Mr. PRINGLE, leave was
given to brine- in tine Bill.
DESERTION IN CANADA.

Captain BOYDERO —Moved for " a return of the num-
ber of deserters from her Majesty's troops stationed in the
Canadas, between 1830 and 1837." The Hon. and Gal-
lant Member said that his object was to establish some
tr pr,,wrnt thn crime or (le2Wi^n that
was an incontestabie fact that tull a fourth of one corps had
deserted in the course of a single year. For his thinking a