The Sun.
London, England, 1853-04-09 00:00:00

terms on which they were redeemable +being the payment
of a certain sum of money. (Hear, hear.) The individuals
of whom the hon. gentleman spoke would not get their
1101. or their 981. 10s., unless it was the interest of the
State to give it. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. MALINS impugned the proposition that England
had no other liability towards the public creditor than
that of paying a perpetual annuity. Strictly and legally,
speaking that might be correct, but practically the doc-
trine was most erroneous. (Hear, hear.)
Tho first resolution, which was as follows, was then
agreed to : •

"1. That the capital trading stock of the Corporation
of the Governor and Company of Merchants of Great
Britain trading to the South Seas and other parts of
America, and for encouraging the fishery, which is called
and known by the name of South Sea Stock : the capital
stocks cf the 31. per Centum Annuities, called and known
by the name of the Old South Sea Annuities and by the
name of the New South Sea Annuities : the capital stock
of the 31. per Centum Annuities, created by an act passed
in the twelfth year of King George the First, intituled,
An Act for granting to his Majesty the sum of
1,000,0001., to be raised by way of lottery,' called and
known by the name of the Bank Annuities 1726: and the
capital stock of the 31. per Centum Annuities, created by
an act passed in the twenty-fourth year of King George
the Second, intituled An Act for granting to his Majesty
the sum of 2,100,0001., to be raised by annuities and a lot-
tery, and charged on the Sinking Fund, redeemable by
Parliament,' called and known by the name of the 31. per
Centum Annuities 1751, shall be paid off and redeemed.

The second resolution was thou read as follows :

" 2. That every person, body politic and corporate, who
now is, or hereafter may be, interested in the capital
stocks of any of the said 31. per Centum Annuities, who
shall, in manner hereinafter directed, give notice at any
time on or before Friday, the 3d day of June, 1853, of his
assent to receive other government securities in lieu and
in place of the said capital stocks of the said annuities, in-
stead of being paid in money, shall, at the option of the
said parties, receive for every 1001. thereof, 821. 10s. in a
a New Stock of Three-and-a-Half per Centum An-
nuities, which said annuities shall be paid at the
rate of 3L 10s. per centum per annum until the sth day of
January, 1894, from and after which clay the said annui-
tiea shall be subject to redemption by Parliament; or for
every 100/. of the said capital stocks of annuities the sum
of 1101. in a New Stock of Two-and-a-Half per Centum
Annuities, which said annuities shall be paid at the rate
of 21. 10s. per centum per annum until the sth day
of January, 1894, from and after which day the
said annuities shall be subject to redemption by Par-
liament ; or for every sum of 1001. of the capital Stocks
of the said 31. per Centum Annuities, an Exchequer Bond
for the like amount payable to the bearer, and carrying
interest at the rate of 2/. 15s. per centum per annum,
payable half-yearly,, on the Ist day of March and the
Ist day of September in every year, until the Ist day of
September in a year to be named in such bond, and not
later than Ist September, 1864, inclusive, and thenceforth
21. 10s. per centum per annum, payable half-yearly in like
manner, until and including the Ist of September, 1894,
and thereafter to be subject to redemption at par, at the
option of the holder; or at the option of the Commissioners
of her Majesty's Treasury, as shall be named in such
bond."
Mr. DISRAELI thought it right, before this resolution
was agreed to, to warn the committee that, from the alter-
ations made in the resolution, from the admissions made
by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and from various
other statements, this was, in fact, the important resolu-
tion. He wished the committee to bear this in mind, and
he protested against the supposition that, by allowing
the resolution to pass, he for one assented to it. If the
committee agreed to the conversion of the whole
of 500,000,0001., under the second resolution, he must
remind the committee that the profit to the country
would but little exceed 550,0001. a-year ; and they should
well consider whether, for such an object as reducing the
interest of the debt by 500,0001. sterling, they would do
right to fix the rate of interest at 2A per cent. for more
than 40 years. (Hear.) That was a most important point,
which the committee appeared to be disposing of in almost
a formal manner, but it was a point to which they must
give deliberate attention. The interest guaranteed was
higher than he, for one, thought would prevail during the
next 40 years. (Hear, hear.) It was an enormous respon-
sibility to undertake to make such an arrangement, and he
trusted the committee, when they came to discuss the sub-
ject on a future occasion, would think it their duty most
carefully to consider whether they would assent to it.
(Hear,

The resoltition was then agreed to, together with the
four subsequent resolutions, as follows :

" 3. That the Conamissioners of her Majesty's Treasury
be authorised and empowered to fix the number of years
during which the interest of 21.155. per cent. shall be pay-
able on such bond, subject to the limitation of the fore-
going resolution, and likewise to determine whether such
bond, after the Ist of September, 1894, shall be redeemable
at their option only, or shall also be redeemable at the
option of the holder, and that the said Commissioners shall
give notice in the London Gazette of what they shall deter-
mine in these respects as soon as may be after the passing
of any act in pursuance of these resolutions.
"4. That the dividends and interest payable on such New
31. 10s. per Centum Annuities, on such New 2/. 10s. per
Centum Annuities, and on such Exchequer Bonds, shall be
charged and chargeable upon the Consolidated Fund of the
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.
" 5. That the dividends now payable by law on sth July
and sth January in every year on the said Capital Trading
Stock and on the said capital stock of New South Sea An-
nuities, annuities 1726, and annuities 1751, shall continue
payable until the sth January, 1854, inclusive, and no
longer.
" That the dividends now payable by law on 10th Octo-
ber and sth April in every year on the said capital stock
of Old South Sea Annuities shall continue payable until
sth April, 1854, inclusive, and no longer. -
" 6. That if the Corporation of the Governor and Com-
pany of Merchants of Great Britain trading to the South
Seas and other parts of America, and for encouraging the
fishery, shall at any time on or before Friday, the 3d day
of June, signify to the Commissioners of her Majesty's
Treasury their assent to commute and exchange the said
capital trading stock, or any part thereof, into any one or
mote of the said 3/. 10s. per Centum Annuities, New 2/.
lOs. per Centum Annuities, or Exchequer Bonds, the said
corporation shall be permitted to make such commutation
and exchange upon the same terms, and subject to the like
conditions, as are granted to the person or persons, bodies
politic or corporate, interested in, or entitled to, the capi-
tal stock of 3/. per Centum Annuities now proposed to be
paid off and redeemed."

The seventh resolution was then • read by the Clerk as
follows :

"7. That all and every person or persons, bodies politic
or corporate, possessed of any part of the said 3/. per Cen-
tum Annuities, and who shall desire to signify his, her, or
their assent to receive the said New 3/. 10s. per Centum
Annuities, New 2/. 10s. par Centum Annuities, or Exche-
quer Bonds in lieu thereof, shall on or before the 3d day of
June, 1853, but within the usual hours of transacting busi-
ness at the Bank of England, or at the South Sea House, by
themselves or some agent or agents for thatpurpose duly au-
thorised, signify to the Governor and Company of the Bank
of England, or to the Governor and Company of Merchants of
Great Britain trading to the South Seas, as the case may be,
such assent in writing under his, her, or their haud or hands
or the hand or hands of his, her, or their agent or agents,
together with the amount of his, her, or their respective
share or shares in the said 3/. per Centum Annuities, and
which said assent shall be entered in a book or books to be
opened and kept by the said governor and company of the
Bank of England and by the said governor and com-
pany of merchants of Great Britain trading to tL.,
South Seas for that purpose; and in case of any transfer
of such share or shares of such annuities, or any part or
parts thereof, after such assent, the part or parts of such
annuities so transferred shall be entered in the said book
or books separately from the said 3/. per Centum Annuities,
in respect of which no sech assent shall be signified, and
every such person or persons so assenting, or his, or her or
their assigns, or the executors or administrators of such
assigns, under any such transfer, shall be entitled for
every 100/. capital stock of the said 3/. per Centum An-
nuities to 32/. 10s. of the capital stock of New 3/. 10s. per.
Centum Annuities, or to 1101. of the capital stock of the New
2/. 10s. per Centum Annuities, or to an Exchequer Bond
of 1001. bearing interest as aforesaid : provided always that
if any person or persons holding any such 3/
CentumUnited Annuities, shall not be within the limits of
Ki
3d (iay of
ngdomataniunteinem3
bet, both
weenthiLlButshive d,aybuotfshaApurible in
the
•
any other part of Europe, itsahsaslelat at belanawyfutlimfoe brsekuchreptehre-
son or persons to signify such
30th day of July, 185a3n;y
taitime 'fbetween such person
the Bth day
or persons shall not at
be within any part o
of April, 1853, and f
Ethuerop3oo;
30th
hit shallday beoflawtillyforlhiBsm3,
her, or them to signify
February, bru arY.
the Ist day of 1854 such person or persons
such assent at any time before
satisfaction of the Governor or Deputy
proving to the
of
his,iEngland,r,.o r otrhteoht.
absence
bsGovernorence
.f omo!
thet h e_
stuvtehr Governor
Company,
out of Europe, as above specified, and
United Kingdom, or
Bank
ofof any Eng
England, or
oro
rmo more
Governortrustee
a and
that
Annuities his, her,stood oro theirh ss,h a
her,re oro
rs shares
nameofs uc h 0
or names
per
res Centumpee.
namefortahtrheheßairabneehalf, in the books of the Gover-
norttr
trustees,
ltayen,e( ois
,reoi non
tthnhipsea,
nhyer
provided also, that
emns
tu,,oe
within
out
triosi person ntEe onu
Europe,
days
of Merchant Traders to the South Seas on the 3d
Company
United
Kingdom."
aftersE dayO nalsl °EI
hsfoi
igjsan:blihasfyeeen:t
3:1-uof8:r5ho3tmhh:
his,
fhr the
returneUr
,n iotre United
ohKetiihrnetscl
se
In h answer
CHANCELLOR
ttichn!inErairiLWa
goieß:oeinfNtstoh°feNt'hEXCHEQUEßesou
t South Sea debt,a d et said-that,
as roger
not take credit forada
an
ty
presentsaving forwhatever.
h management 0 nthe contrary,
of thentrarY
debta
e i
rhat was nothingwaspossiblepaid
there might be an increased expense
o
ps '2OO/. a-year under that head. The hon. gentle-
ma'h had asked whether there was not a large amount of
South Sea Stock at 3i per cent. He believed the state of
the case was this-the South Sea Company had assigned to
them a sum of 600,0001. in 3 per cent. Consols, in compen-
sation for certain privileges of exclusive trade which they
gave up. They were holders of 3 per cent. stock, just like
other holders of the same security, and their practice was,
he believed, to take the dividends on that sum of 600,000/.,
and to distribute them regularly among their own mem-
bers. The practical effect of this was,
as the hon. gentle-
man said, that the South Sea Stock holder did receive
per cent., the company adding per cent.
The resolution was then
agreed to, together with the
following remaining resolutions
" 8. That provision shall be made for paying off such
proprietor or proprietors of any of the said Capita Trading
Stock or Capital Stocks of Annuities before mentioned, as
shall not signify his assent to accept and receive New 3/.
10s. per Centum Annuities, or New 2/. 10s. per Centum
Annuities, or Exchequer Bonds, in lieu. thereof.
" 9. That every person or persons, body politic or
corporate, who now is, or hereafter may be, interested
in or entitled to any part of the capital stock of the
Consolidated 3/. per Centum Annuities, or of the Capi-
tal Stock of the Reduced 3/. per Centum Annuities,
payable at the Bank of England, or at the Bank of
Ireland, and
185w3h,osigslinaiflly
taot
tahney
Gt iomv
eerntberf oarneat hceomlOptahn
yd day
of October,
the Bank of England, or to the Governor and Company of
the Bank of Ireland, by an entry to be made in books to
be opened for such purpose, his desire to commute and ex-
change any or all of the said annuities to which he may bo
entitled, into any one or more of the said New 31. 10s. per
Centum Annuities, New 21. 10s. per Centum Annuities, or
Exchequer Bonds, shall be permitted, to make such com-
mutation and exchange upon the same terms and subject
to the like conditions as are granted to the person or per-
sons, bodies politic or corporate, interested in or entitled
to the Capital Stocks of 3/. per Centum Annuities pro-
posed to be he paid off and redeemed as aforesaid.
" 10. That nothing herein contained shall extend to
authorise the commutation of the said Conolidated 3/. per
Centum Annuities, or the said Reduced 3/. per Centum
Annuities, into the said New 2/. 10s. per Cent= Annui-
ties, after the amount.entered for commutation into such

Yew 21. 10s. per Centum Annuities in the said books of
the Bank of EnDrland and Bank of Ireland, shall have
rerched the sum of 39,0D0,000/. ; and that .the power of
commutation of the said 31. per Centum Stocks shall there
After b 3 limited to the two other options herein before
given ; that is to say, the option of exchange for 3/. 103.
per Centum Annuities, and the option of exchange for
Exchequer Bonds."

"11. that the Commissioners of her Majesty's Treasury be
authorised and empowered to issue at any lime between
the sth of April, 1353, and the sth of. April, 1851, Ex-
chequer Bonds, payable to bearer, upon the like terms and
conditions as hereinbefore described, and after public no-
tice in the London Gazette, from time to time to sell such
Exchequer Bonds, or any part thereof, and to apply the
proceeds in redeeming any part of the capital trading stock
or capital stock of annuities now proposed to be paid off and
redeemed, or in purchasing and cancelling any Exchequer
Bills, or in ex hanging such Bonds for Exchequer Bills, upon
such terms as the said Commissioners shall think proper,
or in purchasing and cancelling any of the Consolidated 3/.
per Centum Annuities, or ReducCd 3/. per Centum Annui-
ties, payable at the Bank of England or at the Bank of
Ireland, as the case may be.
" 12. That the interest on such Exchequer Bond shall be
i,,,sited and chargeable on the said Consolidated Fund.
" 13. That no amount of such Exchequer Bonds shall
bo charged exceeding in the whole the snnr of thirtymillions.
" 14. That it shall be lawful for the Accountant.,
General of the Courts of Chancery in England and Ireland
respectively, and for the Accountant in Bankruptcy in
in England, at any time before the 3d day of June, 1853,
to sr;nify to the Governor and Company of the Bank of
England, or to the Corporation of the Governor and Com-
pany of the Merchants of Great Britain trading to the
South Seas and other parts of America, and for encou-
raging the fishery, on behalf any suitor or suitors, or others
interested 3/. per Centum Annuities hereinbefore referred
to, standing in the names of such Accountants-General
and Accountant respectively, their assent to accept and
receive shares in the said New 3/. 10s. per Centum
Annuities, or New 2/. 10s. per Centum Annuities, or
Exchequer Bonds, in lieu of all such Si. per Cen-
t= Annuities standing in their. names respectively ;•
and the said Accountants-General and Accountant
respectively shall be fully indemnified against all actions,
suits, and proceedings for and in respect of any action,
matter, or thing done by them respectively in pursuance '
thereof.
" 15. That all executors, administrators, guardians and
trustees interested in or entitled to any part of the capital •
stock of the Old South Sea 3/. per Centum Annuities, of
the New South Sea 3/. per Centauri Annuities, of tho 31.
per Centum Annuities created by the Act 12th George
the First, of the 31. per Centum Annuities created by the
Act 24th George the Second, of the Consolidated 37. per
Centum Bank Annuities, and of the Reduced 37. per
Centum Bank Annuities, whether payable at the Bank of
England or at the Bank of Ireland, as the case may be,
who shall signify their desire to convert the Annuities to
which they may be respectively interested into any of the
New 3/. 10s. per Centum Annuities, New 2/. 10s. pet
Centum Annuities, or Exchequer Bonds, shall be
de tnnified."

The CHANCELLOR of the .EXCHEQ UER gave notice
that he would, on Monday next, bring forward certain re-
solutions of form which would constitute the notice to
parties.
The house then resumed.
The motion, that the house on its rising do adjourn until
Monday, was then put and agreed to.
COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS hoped the hon. gentleman, the
Secretary to the Treasury (Mr. Wilson), did not intend to
force any votes upon the house to-night. These estimates
had not been delivered until yesterday, and then accom-
panying them were the Chancellor of the Exchequer's re-
solutions, to which he had devoted his attention; and he
had had, therefore, no time to give to the consideration of
these estimates, the contents of which hon. members car
tainly ought have an opportunity of examining before
they came under discussion. The estimates of 1830, when
the late Duke of Wellington was Prime Minister, amounted
to 1,050,0001. ; under Sir R. Peel's Government, in 1835,_,
they amounted to 2,100,0001. • but they were now 4,500,0004.
He wished for an opportunity of examining into the cause
•
of this extraordinary increase, and he should take the
sense of the house on the subject, unless he received 1113
assurance that no votes would be taken to-night.
EXAMINATION OF CANDIATES FOR THE
DIPLOMA TIC SERVICE.

Mr. EWART rose to call attention to the expediency °I
instituting an examination of candidates for the diplomat°
service. He believed it was the intention of the late G°:
vernment, and he hoped-it was the intention of the present
Government, to see whether they could not introduce son°
species of examination for that important department-"
the diplomatic service of this country. He would not,
of course, insist upon an examination in the case of the
higher functionaries, but he believed the subordinate
appointments would be much better filled if the candidate'
for those offices had to undergo a preliminary examination,
in which the knowledge of foreign languages should foria
an important part. (Hear.) I our own country this
system had been established in regard to appointments in
the army and navy ; it had been successfully adopted !!:
other countries, and he thought it was high time it shout,L;
be applied to diplomatic as well as to other department'
here. He had great hopes, too, that the Indian patronae
would before long be bestowed on a system of free public
examinations, where the best qualified would be the ens
cessful candidates. Meanwhile, he wished to know whether
the inquiries promised by the late Government upon the
subject of an examination for candidates for diplomat';
appointments had been proceeded with, and whether th
present Government had come to any decision on the sair
ject ?
Lord J. RUSSELL could not say that, &tiring the shorl
time ho had held the seals of the Foreign-office, he hsj
paid attention to the subject ; but he had heard from Lor
Clarendon (so we understood) that all the papers were n°_,`t
.0
completed, and that noble lord would probably take On'
steps upon them.
Lord STANLEY—This subject had been pressed on tile
attention of the late Government, and the result of thger°i,i,i
sideration given was to show that there were no rati by
objections to the adoption of the system recommended
the honourable gentleman. It was considered that the
should be a preliminary examination, and subsequontlY
second and snore rigid test previous to which tbei
candidate could not be considered to have fairly enteret
the diplomatic service. That was a mere outline of
the scheme which he deemed it most advisable 'l7
adopt, if there was to ba an examination„ but it orso
impossible to look at it without taking the wide and
more comprehensive view—namely, whether they wPw.,,
keep up the diplomatic service as a profession—(heat,
such as the military profession, for example. They partial'/
adopted that theory, and. on the strength of a person '-`0
voting himself to the diplomatic service he was entitled ;',l
a pension. It was doubtful to him whether they colt,
render diplomacy a profession in that sense. The boil'
would recollect the difference of the system pursued in the
United States, and it was well known that in India perse",
were not primed up for that service, but were selected frosi
those military and civil officers whose qualifications bro,
entitled them to discharge its duties. In our own diPi matic service we broke through, in practice, the rule r 0
o
had laid down in theory, and nothin was more conaral
than to place men who had not previously'filled diploma;
offices, or who had not received a diplomatic education,,!j
high posts. (Hear, hear.) " In point of fact they viola
ts"
their own theory. They laid it down as a rule—or none
nally as a rule—that those who were to conduct
busineis must be educated as for a profession, but they
dlv
not adhere to the practice. It was his opinion—his OW
individual opinion, that they might place the whole diPl'ro
matic service on a:different footing—that they might haw
a body of men corresponding with those employed in to
inferior offices of our civil service at home, employed at ti 6
missions abroad ; and if so, they might' throw open'
diplomatic service ; and by doing away with retiringP jr
sions, effect a great saving for the country. He had, LW
ever, no hesitation in saying, that if they continued
make the diplomatic service a profession, then, in order to
guard against abuses, it was essentially necessary to es_t:j
blish some test, so that those who were incapable of gv",„
service to the country should be unable to enter on diP'"
macy as a profession. (Hear, hear.)
Lord PALMERSTON said, that with regard to The
I'd- I
question to which his hon. friend (Mr. Ewart) had referr,„„.
he 'begged to state that when he held the seals of the I'd
reign-office he did take steps with a view of establish"
an examination fur the junior members of the diplomat/0
service. His notion was very much like what had he,,,e
stated by the noble lord who had just addressed the tiontsl
that a moderate examination might be established ee,
those who were candidates for the office of unpaid attaeui which was the first step, and that a more complete exam
nation should take place with regard to candidates for
office of paid attaché. He entered into a negotiation 011 the authorities of the London University, and took co°l,'";
examination
de steps t
htaotwlav towards st
o establishing
place.
ofwo revt'a:
bound to say, that he did not concur in all the oPinr;:l
which the noble lord had expressed. The noble
seemed to think that it would be better to change the
isting system of our diplomatic arrangements, .7 t-h
longer consider it as a sort of professional body, Wl'f' the
noble lord quoted, as an example, the practice °
United States, But the house must recollect the entire
difference between the condition of the United Stall:,
with regard to their relations with foreign countries, a°
the condition of this country in respect to its foreign 5
lotions. The United States, except, perhaps, in 1,„
country and in France, had hardly any interests to mai',
tain or any objects to• accomplish with any other of tiloi?,6
countries of the European continent. If the noble lord
wanted an example to look at, let him look at the exam(''
of those countries which had the greatest interest and 0;
fluence in Europe. What was done by France ? Wit;
was done by Russia ? What was done by Austria ?
by all those countries it was thought to be of great adv 7:
Cage to employ men who trained their minds to the mat
tors with which they had to deal. (Hear, hear.) It 70
thought in those countries expedient to employ persons
do a thing who undietrsmtoiogdhtthbee
athllinvgerythpatlewasaasnttotobeenidpe%
Now,
swCountyy
nears at foreign courts, and see, through 'of
who might wish to travel Is,
he diplomatic service, any body of friends,
mpg( Lea
ensaastunl
ages
gentlemen
oet
eefwnr )
the Government who might choose so to employ thew;
(Hear, hear.) But the noble lord admitted it was expo
client the inferior offices of the diplomatic sort.
should he filled by those very men whom he nevertm less said he wished to see abolished ; and yet the i,p
lord at the same time was of opinion that we might safe
have a person appointed superior Minister to a foret,
court who was ignorant of his duty, provided he wasijo
sisted by a diplomatic official who knew it ; and where' fit
subordinate official could write the letters of his igno'j,o
superior, and read to him and make him understand "s
letters he received. (Laughter.) Let the house only efi
ceive this ignorant' superior going to a conference with o
Minister of t'ho country to which he was accredited eti,v
question involving an intimate knowledge of the law of
tions, a familiar acquaintance with politics, and with 4of
stipulations of treaties ! Imagine that ignorant supet1
4,
called upon by the Minister of that country to give his 0,.13,
nion under such circumstances! He could not say, " Vfroo
sir ; I must send for my secretary. lam here only Oa i 4
the ornamental part.; the man who is to do the busine;.lo
in my office at home ; you must allow sue to send for P.
before I can solve your question or give you an r,
(Laughter.) The great matterwas that the man who Po,
to do the business should understand how to do the btiv
ness that was to be done. (Laughter.) However, 00
would say this, that it was the fashion for many pet lis
to speak disparagingly of the diplomatic body of 'oiti
country. He had had some experience of that body, td
he could say, with the utmost sincerity, that he
ll
found no Government in Europe, better served he W°{l;o
not say, but so well served, or so well informed, as si
Government of this country had been by its differtiol '
diplomatic agents, or who had received such correct or
formation as to the real state of foreign countries.' 04
as to what was going to take
place ; and that at °oar,
when the agents of other countries had been led into e 01
and misled either with respect to the existing stateol
things, or of the then expected events. But he was g°4l4
to say that that which the noble lord had called a.'