The Sun.
London, England, 1853-04-20 00:00:00

(Fi•onz the Daily News.)

At last we have got the long looked-for financial
statement, and find—as might have been anticipated—
the Coalition Ministry offer us a Budget of Compromises.
As a whole its reception by the House of Commons
was favourable, but in portions it is clear that both
House and country will demand amendments before 3
can become law. Its corner-stone is the Income Tax
for seven years certain, and so extended in scope as to
include all persons in re-eipt of 1001. a year. In hope
of making this bitter pill- acceptable, we are offered a
partial reduction in the pressure of the tax hereafter.
Mr. Gladstone—to use his own words—" invites us to
submit to a renewal of the Income Tax" for the next
two years, at sevenpence in the pound ; for the following
two • years, at sixpence ; and then for three years more
at fivepence. At the end of this long seven years' cer-
tain apprenticeship to an unpopular and unreformed im-
post, he points the date of April the sth, 1860, when he
hopes that the progress of the country may have baen
such as to permit the Income Tax to expire. All who
now pay the tax,—with the addition of all those now
earning 1001. ayear and less than 1501.,—are "invited"
to join in this step of fiscal self-sacrifice, in order that
Mr. Gladstone's schemes on other points may have fair
play. On the Income tax he bases all his schemes and
all his hopes ; but on an income tax unreformed as re-
gards its pressure upon those whose incomes arise from
skill and intelligence. Mr. Gladstone himself spoke of
the income of the active and industrious and the income
of the lazy, but devoted an enormous portion of his very
long speech last night to an attempted exposition of the
utter impossibility of equitably reforming the tax. We
must have it as it is—or not at all He gave, indeed,
at once a history and an elaborate eulogium of the In-
come Tax. It was that which helped us through the
great war ; it was that which enabled us to secure our
new and successful commercial policy, to reform our
fiscal system, and by its help—if Parliament would
vote him an income tax for seven years certain—he
(Mr. Gladstone) would follow in the steps of Pitt and
Peel, and reform our system of taxation upon prin-
ciples sure to be beneficial to the entire community.
He would compromise between evil and good. He would
have us submit to new taxation, that old taxes may be
taken off. Some of the imposts now suggested are quite
in accordance with the temper of the time and the
equity of the case. He would reform the legacy duty,
making all property derived from succession by death
pay to the Exchequer. Herein he adopts another
suggestion of the honourable member for Lambeth, and
would bring the landed class, who have hitherto escaped
the pressure of the legacy tax, within the fair and just
operation of the law. This proposition might be dis-
tasteful to the landlords, but then, to sweeten it to them,
he strives for their gratification to slay the income-tax
reformers, and upset the case of adjustment, by proving
that such adjustment already exists, since land (accord-
ing to Mr. Gladstone), now practically pays 9d. in the
pound, whilst professions and trades pay but 7d. With
one hand he s ttprori voepso ste
do deprecatealpe appease eat ahc sye
taxwt he
wrath
landownertohn ofthe
rateable
fi n ;anci with the
other he fights the battle of the fundholder ;
property.re
all the
reover exten% the income tax to Ireland,
fHwbouhretini lwhee erosruebeleydka gitmnhagioen compromise re-appears. He would, in
return for such extension, brihe Ireland with the four
millions she owes in the shape of consolidated annuities.
It is fair to the English taxpayer that Ireland should
pay income tax ; but it is unfair that the four millions—
borrowed from the pockets of the English, and from the
solvent portion of the Irish ratepayers— should be thrown

up. On the other hand, the Irish gain by this no posi-
tive ready-money benefit. They are, it is true, to get
rid of more than four millione of debt, but the income
tax will at once take more out of their pockets than the
non-payment of the consolidated annuity money will keep
in them. It is, in fact, troubling Ireland for a little ad-
ditional ready money, giving as a bribe for compliance
with a just demand four millions of what is lastly like
a bad debt. What Ireland will say to this bargain has
to be seen. She is better able to bear her fair share of
taxation than she has been for generations, and besides
the wisdom of an equalisation of taxation through all
portions of the same kingdom, that very equalisation
affords in itself a fair claim for equal laws, how can
England deny her right to equal legislation in all other
directions ?

In proposing the extension of Income Tax to all per-
sons earning over 1001, a year and less than 1501. Mr.
Gladstone said he did not wish to take it down "to the
region of labour ;" but he should know that perhaps no
class in the community are more laborious than the peo-
ple who earn this very class of incomes. He gave also
cases in which estimates had been made of the way in
which incomes varying from 1001. to 150/. were usually
expended, and went on to show how far the reductions
of taxation consequent on fiscal reform had benefited
this very class. He stated that the Hundred Pound
Income people had gained by recent reforms, at least
five, and in many cases seven per cent., and gave this
as a reason for bringing .them within a new range of
taxation. In other words,—what he said seems equi-
valent to saying, " Let us cut off at one swoop a good
two-thirds of the advantage which this class has gained
by free trade."
As a whole, the Budget has boldness and weakness—
merit and demerits—a forward action and a backward
action. In the elaborate attempts to show that Income
Tax is incapable of reform, Mr. Gladstone is wrong—in
his declaration that this tax may be used as a lever to
relieve our industry from many more mischievous im-
posts, he is right. When he talks of its capacity for
enabling us at a moment's notice to plunge into war, he
quotes as an enormous good, that which is rather a dan-
gerous temptation, and therefore an evil, but when speak-
ing of it as a productive source of revenue, enabling a
Chancellor of the Exchequer to dispense with taxes like
that on soap and on tea, he told a welcome truth.
In his calculations of support, he evidently bids the
Soap Duties and the Legacy Duties, and the reduction
of the Stamp Duties, in expectation of aid from Re-
formers ; whilst to the Tories he says, " I won't have a
graduated Income Tax : I will do as your Chancellor
wanted to do, by extending the Income Tax to Ireland,
and to all who earn 1001. a year ;" whilst, lastly, he
seeks to mollify the Irish for the imposition of the In-
come Tax by saying, "I ask you for 7d. in the pound,
but then I forgive you a debt over 4.000,0001.
Next in importance to the Income Tax proposition
comes that which proposes the reform of the Legacy
Duty. This tax Mr. Gladstone—as we have just said— •
proposes most justly and wisely to put on a new footing,
in the way which Reformers have often and long
pointed out. The Legacy Duty is to be extended to all
successions to property by death—settlements not to
escape. All persons gaining wealth by the demise of
others are to be taxed in proportion to the value of the
life interest taken. All this was well received, as was
also, and very justly, the suggested removal of the soap
duties, and the reduction of the tax on tea, and on
carriages, life assurances, agricultural produce, and
stamps. The advertisement duty reduction to sixpence,
is only an instalment, which, after the recent decision
of the House of Commons, is meagre and ungraceful.
This tax on publicity must all come off. The removal
of the supplement stamp is a huge gift to the Times.
But of this more hereafter. The sum total of proposed
new taxes, with the balance of surplus, available for
1853-4 for reduction of other burthens, is stated at
2,149,000/.
Mr. Gladstone's speech was an elaborate and powerful
exposition of the financial affairs of the nation ; and if
its compromises include on the one hand an extension of
unreformed income tax, they on the other propose that
the tax on successions shall be made general, and that
soap, tea, life policies, advertisements, horses, carriages,
servants—or in other words, temperance, cleanliness,
prudence, publicity, and labour—shall escape a portion
of the burthen they have hitherto borne. At first blush
the budget seems, as a whole, likely to be popular with
the House of Commons, and not the less so that any
refusal of it, by any combination of Derbyites with
those who sit opposite to them, would doubtless render
a much earlier dissolution of Parliament requisite than
will otherwise come about. The more important verdict
of the country has now to be taken.

(From the Morning Post.)

By Monday next, the House of Commons and the
country will have had time to examine and to analyse
the financial scheme of the Chancellor of the Exchequer
—to decide whether any or all of his proposals for the
relief or diminution of existing taxation offer sufficient
advantages to atone for the odious nature of the main
ingredient in the Budget, and to satisfy themselves
whether the contemplation of such happy posibilities as
,are promised with the advent of 1860 will compensate
the public for the certain infliction of a seven years' in-
come tax.

We have already declared our own opinion of the ex-
pedient which Mr. Gladstone frankly described Its the
corner-stone of his financial policy—that is to say, the
continued use of this exceptional engine of finance for the
purpose of getting rid of taxes on social expenditure in

To our judgment, the first part of the powerful
and elaborate speech in which the Budget was introduced,
proved most clearly that a direct tax on income is neither
justifiable nor safe, except as a strong expedient spring-
ing from, and confined to, the imperative demand of
some special and great emergency ; but the con-
clusion failed in equal strength of demonstration,
that, in the demand for such remissions as are
promised, such an emergency now exists. The
house, however, have now before them the design- of
what Mr. Gladstone considers a completion of the
system which Sir Robert Peel began, and it will be for
them to decide, next week, whether such a completion
be worth the price they are called on to pay for it. This
is the key of the whole subject ; an assent will make the
rest of the business comparatively easy, a negative an-
swer involves, at the least, entire reconstruction of the
Budget. There are two principles on which opposition
to the Government project may be urged—that of ob-
jectors who, without quarrelling with the tax in itself,
demand that a distinction be made as to its bearing on
permanent and on precarious income ; and that of finan-
ciers, who hold, as we do, that the Income Tal being
only an extraordinary expedient, not a genuine source
of revenue, the excess of expenditure which depends on
its maintenance is no true surplus. To the first Mr. Glad-
stone says that he has well examined their demands, with
the thousand and one plausibilities projected for carrying
them out, and he finds that, to attempt to satisfy them
would involve us in endless complexity and absurdity,
and must end in the destruction of the tax. He has no
faith in the inventors of patent balances and infallible
tests to determine the rateable value of every man's
leavings and earnings. The second class of objectors,
who think with ourselves, are told that all they say, and
more, is perfectly true ; that the Income Tax, like war,
brings inevitably with it such injustice, oppression, and
iniquity that it should be used only as a desperate re-
source and last resort; but that, bad as it is, and not
possibly to be made much better, we still cannot do
without it for seven years to come, because it will take
us that time to complete, by its rough agency, the
circle cf free trade.
There is a third class of objectors who must not be
forgotten, and whom we look to see stirred into their
fullest clamour by what we consider the best and fairest
measure in the whole scheme as relating to the Income
Tax, namely, the extension of that impost to Ireland.
If the tax be continued at all, it is impossible, in our
opinion, consistently with justice or common sense, to
maintain an exemption for which there is now cer-
tainly no tolerable plea, and which Mr. Gladstone
proposes to buy off at an ample and generous price.
Nevertheless, we have had too long experience of the
shameless mendicity, inveterate selfishness, and utter
ingratitude of that particular section of the House,
not to be fully prepared to find the bitterest animosity
of the Irish Brigade excited by a proposal that Irish
property should contribute its share, or anything like
its share, to the expenses of the United Kingdom.
But we hope, for the credit of the house, that this is an
opposition which will stand alone—an animosity which
will find no English allies. We trust it will be remem-
bered that the 4,500,000/. which it is now proposed to
give to Ireland, will, if the gift be sanctioned by Parlia-
ment, be the completion of an immense expenditure of
the same nature, issued mainly from the fruits of exclu-
sive English taxation, to exempted Ireland. By one in-
stalment after another, the aid so promptly given and so
ill received, in the terrible years of famine, has been con-
verted from the shape of debt, in which he properly
stood, to that of a free and generous gift out of funds,
from the heaviest contributions to which Irishmen have
been wholly exempt. With this last charge, created by
the distress of 1846 to 1848, the faintest pretence for
Irish exemption must vanish. The country for whose
improvidence, for whose turbulence, for whose dishonesty,
for whose sloth, this kingdom has been so heavily taxed,
ought, if its members have the, slightest decent pride, or
the merest appreciation of generous feeling, to welcome
with gladness an opportunity of paying instead of begging
its way. It will probably not be so ; but we trust that,
supposing the first principle of a continued Income-tax
to be admitted at all, no voice beyond the narrow pale of
Irish ingratitude will be found to express the slightest
doubt or hesitation as to the necessity of this tardy act
of justice to England.
Ireland has benefited, and will continue to benefit, by
the large remissions in taxation. It is full time that she
should bear her share in the price that we pay for those
remissions. This is true of itself and in the abstract,
and we do not know that the question of wiping away
the poor law and famine debt should have been intro-
duced by the Chancellor of the Exchequer as a set-off.
If there be good reasons for relieving Irish property from
all expense of maintaining its poor in the years of dis-
tress, they had better have been stated, and the boon
have been given on, and attributed to, its proper
grounds. But, after all, as the proposition stands, it
will, if the country accept it, be a noble and generous
completion of a very noble and ill-requited course of
action as regards the cancelling of these Consolidated
Annuities ' • and, with respect to the Income Tax, next
to dealing boldly and promptly with its reduction, the
belt and wisest course is the making it general and na-
tional, the clearing it as far as possible from exemptions,
and especially from this the most unjust, impolitic, and
untenable of all—the Irish exemption.

SURREY DOCKS.--A meeting of shareholders in the
Grand Surrey Dock and Canal Company was held yes-
terday, when a dividend for the half-year of 2/. 10s. per
share was declared. The affairs of the company con-
tinue to prosper,

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS-(YESTERDAY.)

The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Wool
sack at five o'clock.

The Archbishop of YORK presented a petition
against the opening of the Crystal Palace on Sunday.
The Earl of EGLINTON presented petitions from
places in Ayrshire and other places against the Jew
Bill and the Canada Clergy Reserves Bill.
The Duke of ARGYLL presented petitions from
places in Scotland to the same effect; also others
against the grant to Maynooth.
The Earl of WICKLOW gave notice that if the Jew
Bill were read a second time, he should, in committee,
move to substitute for the oaths proposed by it, the
oaths contained in the bill introduced by the Whig Go-
vernment, in 1849.

THE NEW FOREST DEER ACT AMENDMENT

BILL.

On the motion of Lord STANLEY of Alderley, this
bill was read a second time.
MR. KIRWAN'S CASE.

The Earl of EGLINTON rose to move for copies of
the representation to the Earl St. Germans which in-
duced him to replace Mr. Kirwan. He disclaimed all
motives of hostility to his noble friend now at the head
of the Irish Government, or with any evil to Mr. Kir-
wan, but simply to justify the course which he had him-
self taken in displacing Mr. Kirwan. The occurrence
out of which this affair had arisen, took place at the late
Mayo election. Mr. Kirwan was a stipendiary magis-
trate. The course which he (the noble earl) had taken
in merely suspending that gentleman from his functions
for six months was most lenient in its nature. The
stipendiary magistracy in Ireland was not at all compe-
tent for the difficult duties which they had to perform,
and he thought that one-third of that body might pro-
perly be dismissed, and that the efficiency and reputation
of the whole body would then be increased. But al-
though dismissal or censure were courses perfectly open
to him, he had only suspended Mr. Kirwan, believing
that he had thus acted mercifully • and he had conse-
quently been greatly astonished to Observe that the very
first act of his successori n the Viceroyalty was to restore
Mr. Kirwan to his functions. There was no country in
the world which stood in such need of firmness and
im-
partiality in administration as Ireland ; there was no
country which it would be more desirable to impress
with the idea that it was governed equitably. (Hear,
hear.) It was, therefore, very expedient that one viceroy
should not contravene the acts of the preceding viceroy
except in very peculiar circumstances - and in this case
there was no apparent circumstance whatever to vindi-
cate the steps taken by' Lord St. Germans. (Hear,
hear.) In conclusion the noble earl moved, pursuant to
notice, for papers, observing, however, that he, of course,
did not want the papers, and made the motion only to
afford him .the opportunity of going into the case.
The Earl of ABERDEEN could hardly object to a
motion for papers which were not in existence. (Hear.)
He was not surprised that the noble earl should feel
warmly in regard to a circumstance which might appear
to cast a reflection upon his own conduct in an office
which he had filled with such distinguished success ; but
he thought that the noble earl had attached an undue
importance to the matter. He could assure the noble
earl that there had not been, in this transaction, the
slightest intention whatever to cast any slur upon the
noble earl's discretion. The decision in respect to this
stipendiary magistrate had been come to previous to
Lord St. Germans leaving England • and it was only
accidentally that effect was given to diat decision upon
Lord St. Germans arriving in Dublin. In that decision
no reference was made to the course pursued by thenoble
earl (Eglinton), and that course could not at all be con-
sidered to have been brought in question. He (Lord
Aberdeen) would offer no opinion on this special
case ; but, speaking generally, he felt bound to express
his conviction that was not judicious to resort to the
alternative of suspension in the punishment of an offend-
ing stipendiary magistrate. When that sort of punish.
ment was inflicted in reality nothing whatever was
accomplished ; the magistrate returned to his office just
in the position in which he had left it, nothing the worse
and certainly nothing the better for the suspension.
(Hear.) That probably was the view taken in this in-
stance; and, therefore, it could not be supposed that Earl
St. Germans' opinion was that the sentence was too se-
vere ; and that the noble earl opposite would admit that if
suspension was the proper sentence, the limitation of the
period by two months could be of slight consequence, and
assuredly was a limitation perfectly within the discretion
of a new viceroy to effect. (Hear, hear.) If the discre-
tion and the right of a new viceroy were questioned in
such a particular, he did not see that one Government
could be at all different in any way in its aspect from
another. (Hear, hear.) He (Lord Aberdeen) would,
however, not enter into any general argument, and had
only to repeat his assurances to the noble earl, that no
possible slight or disrespect could possibly have been in-
tended ; and having obtained that assurance the noble
earl had probably gained the object he had had in view
in introducing the subject to their lordships.
The Earl of GLENGALL thought that the assurance
of the noble earl was satisfactory ; but, nevertheless, he
considered that the effect of the act of Earl St. Germans
was to cast a slur and discredit upon the course taken by
Lord Eglinton, and, at all events, he was satisfied that
the act taken by the present Government had not been
well considered. A stipendiary magistrate in Ireland had
unbounded powers in elections, and it was desirable that
it should not be permitted to have those powers abused.
In this instance great powers had been abused, and it
was to be feared that the lesson his noble friend had
received had been deprived of its full effect, in conse-
quence of the change of Government. Much bad been
said recently of the bribery that was prevalent in Eng--
land ; but great as that evil was, a greater evil lay in the
system of intimidation that was almost universal in Ire-
land ; and hence he regretted that an occasion had been
lost to give a salutary warning to those priests who were
too commonly associated with brickbats and bludgeons.
(Hear, hear.)
The Earl of DERBY thought that his noble friend
had amply gained his object in the assurance which he
had received from the noble earl opposite. But he (the
Earl of Derby) must nevertheless express his opinion
that the course taken by the present Government in re-
versing this act of their immediate predecessors was, to
say the least, suspicious in its aspect, and might shake
the belief of the people of Ireland in the impartiality of
the imperial Government. (Hear, hear.) If the prin-
ciple laid down by the noble lord was carried out, it
would amount to saying that there ought to be no in-
termediate punishment between censure and dismissal ;
but if the noble earl meant to say that censure on a
magistrate was not calculated to lower him in public
opinion, on what principle could it be said that an inter-
mediate punishment was insufficient ? He (Lord Derby)
thought that the loss of a place and its emoluments for
six months would be more effectual than any censure that
could be passed. In the course of his statement the
noble earl had let in light on the course of proceeding
which had taken place which had induced him (Lord
Derby) now to ask a question as to the non-production
of certain papers. His noble friend (Lord Eglinton)
assumed that the first act of the Lord-Lieutenant on
his assuming office was the liberation of Mr. Kirwan
from the remainder of his suspension, and he (Lord
Derby) must remark in passing on that being done
with out one word of reason being stated for such a
course. Only two months of the suspension remained,
and two days after the arrival of the Lord-Lieutenant
the Under-Se3retary for Ireland was directed to write to
Mr. Kirwan, merely stating that it was the pleasure of
the Lord-Lieutenant that the remainder of the sentence
should be remitted. The only inference that could be
drawn from that was that Mr. Kirwan had been unjustly
dealt with, and that the earliest opportunity had been
taken to remedy the injustice. If the grounds for re-
mitting the sentence had been stated, and a caution
I added with respect to prudence and discretion in future,
he could have understood the case, although he
should have regretted that any reversal of an act of the
late Government had been made. But it appeared to
him that the course taken was most unfortunate, and
that, too, immediately after the departure of a Lord-
Lieutenant like his noble iliend, who, it was admitted,
had left behind a character fur firmness and impartiality
in Ireland never surpassed by any of his predecessors.
His noble friend had supposed that this was the first act
of the Lord-Lieutenant ; but the noble earl (Aberdeen)
now stated that it was done before the Lord-Lieutenant
left London. If, as was stated by the noble earl, that
course was decided on previous to the departure of
Lord St. Germans for Ireland—at a time when he had
no opportunity of conferring with his predecessor, or
with the Lord Chancellor or his predecessor, or with the
Attorney-General, who were all conversant with the
facts of the case—if he decided without consulting
them, it was clear that he must have acted on some ap-
plication not by word of mouth, but on some repre-
sentation contained in seine memorial or letter from
Dublin. When, therefore, his noble friend had moved
for all the papers relating to the case of Mr. Kirwan,
he (Lord Derby) wished to ask the reason why this
document—whatever it was—on which the Lord-Lieu-
tenant must have acted, did not appear on the face of
the proceedings, containing, as it must, the ground of
those proceedings ? If the memorial or letter was before
the house they would know the ground on which the
Lord-Lieutenant acted, and be able to judge whether
the reasons which influenced him in the exercise of his
functions were sufficient to justify what he had done ;
and he (Lord Derby) could not but think that in a case
where the reversal of an act of his predecessor was the
first act of the Lord-Lieutenant, there ought to be the
clearest explanation of the grounds on which ho had
acted. He wished, therefore, to know whether there
had been any representation or memorial to the Lord-
Lieutenant, and if so why. it had not been laid on the
table with the other papers?
The Duke of NEWCASTLE expressed his gratifica-
tion that the noble earl who had just sat down was sa-
tisfied, and he hoped the noble earl who had brought
forward the motion and the house were also satisfied
that' there was no intention on the part of the Lord-
Lieutenant to cast a slur on the noble earl his predeces-
sor. But he (the Duke of Newcastle) protested against
the fairness of the statement of the ,noble earl (Derby)
when he said that this proceeding would impress on the
people of Ireland that the present Government were not
actuated by a spirit of impartiality. The noble earl had
;and how he was to
made a great deal of a small matter '
show that there had been partiality in this case he (the
Duke of Newcastle) was at a loss to understand. Was
it because the magistrate in question was a Roman Ca-
tholic ? [Lord Derby—l did not know it]. He was
glad that that was the case ; but could it be said that
there was any partiality evinced, when at the same time
a similar offer was made to a noble friend of his whom
he saw opposite (the Earl of Roden). It was impossible
to say that any slur on the late Lord-Lieutenant was
intended, or any partiality shown. With reference to
the question which had been put by the noble earl
(Derby), lie would say that there was no intention on

the part of the Government to withhold any informa-
tion, and he had a very ingenious deducement when he
said, that as the Lord-Lieutenant was in London when he
replaced Mr. Kirwan, Le must have had some written
communic ttion on the subject, and that it had been with-
held. The facts were, that the Chief Secretary for Ireland
being in Dublin, a number of gentlemen, both Roman
Catholics and Protestants, called on him, and urged on
him to recommend to the Lord-Lieutenant the restora-
tion of Mr. Kirwan to the commission of the peace. His
right hon. friend accordingly investigated the case, and,
having done so, he recammended the Lord-Lieutenant
to restore Mr. Kirwan. That explanation he hoped
wonld be sufficient to prove that there had been no sup-
pression of any document. The communication was
made personally to the Secretary of Ireland, and by him
communicated to the Lord-Lieutenant. The noble earl
had been somewhat severe on the opinion expressed by
his noble friend at the head of the Government that the
late Lord-Lieutenant had not acted judiciously in the
suspension of Mr. Kirwan, but that he should have been
either censured or dismissei. The noble earl said that
there were precedents for that course in other services,
aad spoke of such sentences being inflicted by courts-
martial. But was there any similarity between the
position of any officer in the army and a magistrate
acting in the discharge of his duty in Ireland ? But the
noble earl had gone further, and cited the precedent of
the clergy ; and he was correct in stating that such a
practice prevailed ; but it was to be regretted that no
right rev, prelate was present who might have confirmed
him (the Duke of Newcastle) when he stated that such
a practice was not considered satisfactory in the church,
nor did it conduce to the efficiency of the church ; and
if the noble earl had no better example of the advantages
of the practice than that, the obvious conclusion was that
the sooner the practice was put an end to the better.
He was aware that the practice prevailed with regard
to magistrates in Ireland, and he was glad that his noble
friend had made the remarks which he had, as he hoped
the practice would continue to be followed. Having
met the objections which had been made, and reminded
the house that this proceeding could not fairly be charac-
terised as casting a slur upon the late Lord-Lieutenant,
he would say that the fact was that the punishment
having been inflicted on Mr. Kirwan
,for having been
guilty of want of energy and judgment, which was all
that was attributed to him by the reports of Mr. Mart-
ley and Captain Floyd, it was thought that he had suf-
fered sufficiently by a suspension of four months ; and
considering the indigent circumstances of his family, it
was also thought that justice would not suffer by such
an act of clemency and grace as his restoration by the
Lord-Lieutenant.

The Earl of RODEN was glad that his noble friend
had at once taken an opportunity of explaining what he
was sure was a misapprehension of his, but he could
not help saying that the opinion of every one in Ireland
with regard to the circumstances connected with Mr.
Kirwan and himself, was that which he had just now
expressed. He felt it the more, for the communication
he had received from the Lord-Lieutenant was of such a
nature that he had no doubt that nothing but kindness
actuated him in the course he took.
Lord ST. LEONARDS said he was not desirous of
taking any part in this discussion, but for the question
that had been raised with regard to the punishment
which had been adopted by his noble friend the late
Lord Lieutenant. In the first place, he thought no one
could find fault with the extent of the punishment : as
compared with the offence, he thought Mr. Kirwan de-
served a more severe sentence. But the noble earl at
the head of the Government had for the first time found
fault with the suspension of magistrates as a secondary
punishment, and said that it would be better either to
censure or dismiss them ; and what he said to-night,
would of course have its weight in Ireland. He (Lord
St. Leonards) had had occasion in Ireland to exercise
the function of punishing magistrates to a greater ex-
tent than the Lords Lieutenant, as it rested with the
Chancellor to deal with the magistrates generally, while
only the resident magistrates were under the control of
the Lord Lieutenant. On several occasions he had.sus-
pended ordinary magistrates, and after he had exercised
the power once or twice it occurred to him to consider
whether it was constitutional to do so—as to its-expe-
diency, he never had any doubt—or whether he ought
not at once to have dismissed them if their conduct re-
quired more than censure ; for he had some doubt whe-
ther a gentleman who was suspended should still hold
the commission of the peace. He had made inquiry,
and had come to the conclusion that such a course was
not unconstitutional. If then such a course could be
taken without impropriety, surely it was a good secon-
dary punishment. There were precedents for it
in the army, the navy, and the church ; but the
noble earl and the noble duke said that that was all
wrong. He would venture to say that it would be at
least inconvenient that it should go forth to Ireland that
the noble earl was of that opinion. He (Lord St.
Leonards) had heard with pleasure what had been said,
Iso far as it acquitted the Lord-Lieutenant from any in-
tention of casting any reflection on his predecessor. If
anything was still to be regretted, it was this—the Lord-
Lieutenant may have had good reasons for doing what
he had done, and it was possible that one man might in-
flict a punishment and another cause it to be abated,
without casting any censure on the first. But the fault
in this transaction was that it appeared, that the Lord-
Lieutenant having made up his mind as to what he
should do before he went to Ireland on a representation
from the Chief Secretary, which might have been quite
proper, yet did not in the document containing the re-
storation of Mr. Kirwan state more than the intention
of the Lord Lieutenant to restore him to the commission
of -the peace. If he (Lord St. Leonards) reinstated a
magistrate, or remitted a portion of a sentence, he stated
clearly and fully the 'groundsr on which he did so. If
that had been done in the present instance, there would
have been nu occasion for what had now taken place.
He would press on the Government the impolicy of
sending forth to Ireland any opinion against the sus-
pension of magistrates.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said he had no inten-
tion of taking part in this debate, and was only desirous
of saying a few words in consequence of what had fallen
from his noble and learned friend, which, considering the
great weight to which his opinions were entitled, might
lead to misconception. He understood his noble and
learned friend to say that it was his practice, not with
regard to stipendiary magistrates, but ordinary magis-
trates, to punish them by suspension—(hear)—and that
a doubt passed through his mind as to whether it was
constitutional to do so, however expedient it might be.
He (the Lord Channellor) must say that he heard that
statement of his noble and learned friend with astonish-
ment, for he knew of no process by which the Chancellor
could suspend a magistrate. All that he could do was
to strike him out of the commission of the peace. He
thought it was neither a wholesome nor constitutional
course for a Chancellor to take a step which he had no
power to enforce. If a person was a magistrate, he was
invested with all the power of the office, and if he was
found unfitted for it, the only course was to strike him
out of the commission of the peace. That was the view
he (the Lord Chancellor) took of the case as at present
advised; and if it was erroneous, he should be glad to
be corrected. With regard to the subject before the
house, he would only say that he thought it a dangerous
principle to lay down, that a viceroy, on going to any
part of her Majesty's dominions, should feel himself
restrained in the exercise of his prerogative of mercy.
The Earl of CLANCARTY expressed his satisfaction
at the explanations which had been given.
The Earl of DERBY said his noble friend who intro-
duced this subject had been compelled to leave the house
from fatigue, but he had requested him to state that it
was not his intention to persevere with the motion.
The motion was accordingly withdrawn.
CHARITABLE TRUSTS.

The LORD CHANCELLOR laid upon the table a
bill for the better regulation and management of charit•
able trusts, which was read a first time.

Their lordships then adjourned at 20 minutes past
seven o'clock.

HOUSE OF COgAIONS—(YESTERDAY.)
The SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.

The following bills were react a second time and
passed :—Ambergate, Nottingham, and Boston and
Eastern junction Railway (No. 1) ; Brecon Collegiate
Church ; York, Newcastle, and Berwick, York, and
North Midland and Leeds Northern Railway COM-
panics (Amalgamation, &c.)