The Sun.
London, England, 1853-03-01 00:00:00

EXCHEQUER BILLS.

Mr. RICH wished to ask the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer what course he proposed to pursue with regard
to loans issuable by the Exchequer Loan Com-
missioners, Act 27 George 111., chapter 24 ; also,
whether any portion of the .633,0001. which, by a
return from these commissioners, appears to be the
amount of interest on, and repayment of loans estimated
as likely to accrue in 1852, will be applied to the liqui-
dation of the public debt in the event of a diminution or
cessation of such loans.

The CHA.NCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said,
with regard to the application of the 633,0001. to repay-
ments to the Exchequer Loan Fund, that was al-
ready provided for by statute, and it would be
carried forward in regular course. There was also a
provision by statute for the issue of a certain sum of
money not exceeding 75,0001. a quarter for the pur-
poses of the Exchequer Loan Fund. Upon an examina-
tion of the accounts, however, of the Exchequer
Loan Commissioners, it had been found that the
demands upon the fund this quarter would
not require the repayment of the 75,0001., and therefore
it had been stopped. With regard to the general ques-
tion of what course Government proposed to take, with
respect to the Exchequer Loan Fund, he had to state
that information was now being collected to enable
the house and the Government to judge of the
expediency of discontinuing the system under which
the commission was created. Hitherto the commission
had been in the habit of making loans upon its own dis-
cretion, after a sufficient inquiry into the merits of the
application submitted to it. The commission had like-
wise been used by Parliament as an organ for issuing
money under compulsion, and the Treasury had used it
for the same purpose either through the means of
positive orders or by recommendations ; and, lastly, the
commission had been in the habit of issuing money for
special purposes, as provided by act of Parliament.
Now, what he had desired to be done was this, that all
transactions under each of those heads should be care-
fullyseparated one from the other, and a balance-sheet pre-
pared for each, showing what the Exchequer Loan.
Commissioners had done whether as the organ of Parlia-
ment, whether as the servants of the treasury, or whether
upon their own discretion, or in any other capacity.
When Government obtained these returns, they would
be in possession of the exact results of all the
transactions of the commissioners, and then they
would be in a position to form a judgment as
to whether it was expedient that the system of making
loans by the Exchequer Loans_Commission should or
should not be continued.
THE KAFIR WAR.
In reply to Mr. ADDERLEY,

Mr. F. PEEL said, by the dispatch which had been
received from General Cathcart by the last mail, it appeared
that in Dec. last the general carried his army into the
Orange territory for the purpose of inforcing payment of
a fine which had been imposed upon the chief Moshesh.
A battle ensued, which terminated in favour of her Ma-
jesty's forces ; and General Cathcart had returned to
Graham's Town in the firm conviction that hostilities in
the Orange territories were entirely at an end.
NEW WRIT.

On the motion of Mr. HAYTER, a new writ was
ordered for Frome, in the room of Lieut.-Col. Boyle,
whose election had been declared void.
THE FACTORY ACT.

Lord J. MANNERS presented a petition from Tod-
morden, complaining of the evasion of the Factory Act
by certain master manufacturers. The noble lord in-
quired if it was the intention of the Government to take
any steps for the prevening of such evasions for the

future?
Lord PALMERSTON said of course it would be the
duty of the Government to employ the power and au-
thority vested in them to see that the law was enforced
and obeyed, and if it appeared that there were difficul-
ties to prevent the proper execution of the law, it would

then be for the Government to consider what were the
measures that ought to be taken to remedy that defect.

THE SIX-MILE-BRIDGE AFFRAY.

Lord A. VANE wished to ask the Attorney-Creneral

whether the exposition of the law with regard to the
duty of soldiers in riots or emergencies, as set forth by
Judge Perrin, in his charge to the grand jury of the
county of Clare, on the subject of the Six-mile-bridge
affair, is really the law, and whether it is in accordance
with the opinions of her Majesty's legal advisers.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL, in answer to the
_

question, said he had to state that it was the duty of the
Attorney-General, and of those who belonged to his
profession, to take the law from the judges, and not to
dictate it to them. (A laugh.) But at all events, it
would not be proper or courteous for him to review a
judgment of the bench in that house. (Hear.)
Lord A. VANE said, under those circumstances, he

would give notice, that on the motion for going into
supply, he should call the attention of the house to the
circumstance of the charge of the judge, being at vari-
ance with the articles of war, and the terms of the
Mutiny Act, and move a resolution to the effect
that the soldiers who were engaged in the.pix-mile-
hdr.dge affray were fully justified in what they
and that they were to be commended for the disci,
Aline and forbearance which they exhibited on that occa-
sion. (Rear, hear.)

mingham. He could inform the hon. and gallant officer
that every man in that county was employed, and was
well satisfied and contented with his situation. They
were determined to put no more trust in Protectionist
landlords, but to rely on their own resources. And they

were ready to come forward whenever the enemy dared to
invade their hearths and firesides.
General ANSON said that when the hon. member for
Montrose on a former occasion proposed that the estimates
should be voted in the whole, he (General Anson) concurred
in opinion with the hon. member.

Mr. HIIME.—I never made the observation before this
evening.

General ANSON had certainly heard the hon. gentleman
say something very like it when he (General Anson) had
the honour of holding office in the Government. The hon.
member had said that these estimates were such a mass of

confusion that it was impossible to separate one item from
another, and he (General Anson) thought he said that it
would be better to pass them at once without any discus-
sion. He (General Anson) then observed that unless hoz.
members themselves took the trouble to analyse them, he
agreed with the hon. gentleman that it waslmost difficult
for the committee to understand them. He was anxious

to prevent a statement going forth to the public, that there
was wasteful extravagance in any of these departments. A
careful analysis of the different items would, he was sure,
satisfy the mind of every reasonable man that no such
charge was at all applicable to those estimates. He was
glad that the new musket was to be generally adopted
throughout the service, as it was 21b. lighter in weight
than the old musket, although it carried as heavy a ball.
Now, in reference to the remarks upon the gunpowder
required, he could only say that the quantity was
exactly the same as that of last year. Thero were
certainly large additions to the vote ; still, he was inclined
to think they were most of them requisite. He should
be glad to know, however, what it was that had induced
the Board of Ordnance to but down 35,0001. for
the survey of Scotland, the sum agreed upon to complete
the whole survey upon a scale of one inchto the mile within
ten years being the sum of 25,0001., or 10,000 e. less than
estimate.

Colonel BLAIR said the people of Scotland felt very
great intorest in the completion of the Ordnance survey cf
that part of the kingdom and he had no doubt they would
agree with him that the object was now likely to be effected.
He approved of the vote.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that it
was the conviction of her Majesty's Government that if the
Ordnance survey of Scotland was to go on, it ought to be
pushed with rapidity and efficiency. At the same time, ho
was anxious that it should not be taken for granted that it
would be carried out exactly on the same system as had
heretofore prevailed. There were several counties in which
the arrangements already made would be adhered to, but
the Government thought it their duty to take a deliberate
and comprehensive view of the whole subject, to make the
best provisions in their power, and to press it forward with
vigour, in order to place it on the best footing it was sus-
ceptible of, with reference to the interests of the Scottish
counties, and indeed the country at large. They were con-
sidering, in fact, what improvements could be introduced
in the manner in which the Ordnance survey had been
hitherto carried on.

Captain SCOBELL said, no man was more deserving of
the gratitude of the country from his watchfulness in that
house over the public money than his hon. friend, Mr.
Hume. The committee should remember that these esti-
mates were increased in the present year by a sum of from
400,0001. to 500,000/. ; and that it was due to those who
had to supply the money that the fullest explanation should
be furnished upon the subject by the Government. He
(Captain Scobell) approved of the increase of 5,000 men in
the navy when it was proposed last year, regarding that
branch of the public service as the natural and proper
defence of the country. On the same occasion, however,
he objected to the increase in the number of the artillery.
Ainong the items in the estimates he observed one for
"levy money on 1,210 recruits, 8,4441.," being at the rate,
of 71. a man • and in the next line, " travelling, marching
money, cost Of conveyance, and other expenses," for the re-
cruits, 3,3551., or about 21. 15s. a man. So that in bounty
money and marching expenses every recruit cost 91. 15s.—
a sum far exceeding what he had ever heard of in any other
branch of the military service. Either this amount was
too high, or the bounty paid to recruits for regiments of
I the line too low.
Admiral WALCOTT said that at this moment, in the
fortresses of Gibraltar and Malta, where he believed they
had not a greater number of guns than wore necessary, not
more than one artilleryman would be found to a gun, and
he understood that the same was the case in many other of
our colonies. He was perfectly convinced there was no
military force in this country which ought to be kept in a
more efficient state than the artillery. The principal ques-
tion with him was, how we could best prevent the occur-
rence of an invasion at all ; and he thought that any sum
of money which this house could vote that would effect
that object, would be a cheap sacrifice in the end. (Hear,
hear.) Of the corps of artillery he had been an admirer
from his earliest years. Year after year he had watched
its increasing efficiency with the deepest and intensest in-
terest. He was satisfied it was a most important branch
of our military defences; and there was no assistance which
this house could grant still further to augment its value
that he would not gladly concur in. Upon the whole he
was disposed to give the present Government credit for a
determination to lay out the money which might be voted
for the promotion of the best interests of the country; and
until he saw that they took any other course he was will-
ing to repose faith in them.
Mr. MONSELL, in reply to the observations of Captain
Scobell, said that the same sum was paid as bounty and
travelling expenses for recruits in the artillery as had been
paid in the case of recruits for the regiments of the line.
Mr. HUME agreed that the corps of artillery was a most
important arm of our military service ; but he begged to
remind the hon. and gallant member (Admiral Walcott)
that in the time of Pitt 4,846 men was the whole number
of the artillery establishment of Great Britain. And after
the war, from 1815 to 1828, the number of men did not
exceed 8,000. In his opinion the artillery had been in-
creased most immoderately since that period.
Mr. LOCKHART, in reference to the ordnance survey
of Scotland, expressed a hope that the question of the cost
of survey for towns would be reconsidered. In a sanitary
point of view he deemed it of much importance.
The vote was then agreed to, as was also the next of
807,5071. to defray the expense of pay, allowances, and
contingencies of the Ordnance military corps.
On the vote of 373,2171., for defraying the expenses of
commissariat and barrack supplies, great coats for the
army, and clothing for the militia, &c., being proposed,
Colonel LINDSAY drew attention to the present system
of lighting barracks, which he considered a most objection-
able one. The practice was for a certain number of candles
to be issued to the men, who then got a couple of candle-
sticks, with sometimes the addition of a ginger-beer bottle,
to burn them in. He should be glad to know if it was the
intention of the Board of Ordnance to carry out the system
of lighting barracks with gas ? The existing mode of
letting canteens, too, was not a good one. They were now
let •by tender, the highest bidder being usually accepted.
The result was that the canteen-keepers screwed the
soldiers to the greatest possible extent, and occasionally,
as was the case not many days ago at Portsmouth, resorted
to the use of false weights and measures. He thought a
bettor system, and one more conducive to the comforts of
the soldier, might be adopted ; and he trusted the atten-
tion of the board would be directed to the subject.
Mr. MONSELL—The Ordnance Department had under
their consideration the question of introducing gas into
barracks ; it appeared, however, that in many cases its use
was more expensive than candles. With regard to the
second point referred to by the hon. and gallant member,
he could assure him that inquiries were always instituted
into the characters of the persons whose tenders for
barrack-canteens were accepted.
Mr. HUME said that Government ought not to make
a profit of one farthing out of a canteen ; and that coffee-
shops in barracks were on every account to be preferred to
spirit shops. He should like to know how much was de-
rived from the various canteens of the Government ?
Mr. MONSELL.-27,0001.
Mr. HUME repeated his condemnation of the system of
raising money from such a source; and
The vote was agreed to.
73,969/. for the Ordnance-office.
291,657/. for the establishments at home and abroad.
141,4371. for wages at home and abroad.
Lord MONCK said it was unfair that the Government
property in the borough he represented should not be
taxed for local purposes in the same manner as the other
property. The accumulation of large masses of men,
army and navy, on any point, always produced an increase
of pauperism • this made it all the heavier upon other pro-
perty subjected to local rates. The Government property
in Portsmouth was rated under the local improvement act
for the borough, and he (Lord Monck) did not see why it
should not also be rated for the poor, and other local ob-
jects.
Mr. MONSELL said the subject was one of too great
importance to be discussed incidentally in committee. The
Government had, however, shown its willingness to meet
the requirements of the case by submitting to the local
act.
Captain SCOBELL thought the present was not a time
for change.
The votes were agreed to.
371,6971. for ordnance stores for land and sea service.
Colonel LINDSAY complained of the defective con-
struction of the small arms of the service. It was an old
story in the army that stores served out by the Ordnance
were not very efficient.
Mr. MONSELL said, the Ordnance had always rectified
any defects in the arms of the service when they were
pointed out to them' and they would continue to do so.
Colonel NORTH suggested that a greater quantity of
practice ammunition should be allowed for the troops.
Mr. MONSELL said the subject would be considered by
the Government.
After a conversation, in which Mr. Henley, Mr. Monsell,
Colonel Sibthorp, General Anson, and M.. Hume took
part, the vote was agreed to.
695,855/. for works and repairs at home and abroad.
Mr. DI:GIBSON adverted to the sum allotted for the
defence of Alderney Harbour, complained of its amount,
aid asked for explanation. Only 5,0001. was named for
the defence of London, whereas 1601. was demanded for
this out-of-the-way place.
Mr. MONSELL said, the harbour of Alderney was a
harbour of refuge ; and it was exceedingly desirable, there-
fore, to protect it in the event of any war. It was the
belief of the most eminent engineer officers of this country
that at a comparatively small expense the Island of Alder-
ney could be made one of the strongest defensible positions
in the Channel.
Mr. M. GIBSON did not consider the explanation satis-
factory, and the general opinion was that the expense of
fortifying Alderney was undertaken without due consider-
ation.

Mr. HMO would be glad to see a report of the en-
gineer officers who had recommended the fortification of
Alderney,
Sir F. BARING said, officers were sent to the islands to
ascertain the weak and tho strong points, and they had
made reports to the Government. It was not, however,
deemed necessary to publish these reports.
Mr. HEALEY inquired if the hon. Clerk of the Ord-
nance could state whether any arrangements were in con-
templation as to the establishment of baths and other con-
veniences for the soldiers, which the country had a right
to expect should be afforded, considering the great sums
expended in the erection of barracks? (Hear, hear.) The
right hon. gentleman alluded also to the accommodation of
married soldiers.
Mr. MONSELL said the complaints as to the accommo-
dation of the soldiers applied rather to the old barracks
than the new ones, in which great improvements had been
effected.
Colonel LINDSAY admitted that there bad been con-
siderable improvements in these respects ; but soldiers
were entitled to a greater amount of accommodation than
was afforded to them. At present they only had sleeping
rooms, and when these were cleaned out, they had, of
course, to resort to public-houses. Surely, if possible, this
should be altered, and there ought to be a day-room as well
as a night-room.
Captain BOLDERO said, large clams had been certainly
expended in barrack improvem .cl4O. Building barracks WAS

THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, MARCH 1, 1853.'