The Sun.
London, England, 1838-03-27 00:00:00

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the sake7of lcgi lat 0.1, ( r or the in erests of the parties, that 1
this fruitless contest slim Id be caitied on. It would, therefore, 1
be the anxious wish cf the Government to prodose ;
such nnease es as would meet v. ith the assent of both parties, 11
and woad form a basis of adjustment between all. He would :1
'ay likewise that he thought it was the duty of the Govern-
ment in breging forward the question again, as far as it was
in their po v Cr, to propose a coelprehensive measure, that
would give s( curity to the Clitn2.lt on the one hind, an:l give
satisfae ion to the peoele of Ireland on the otlisr. W.th these ! views he would give uotice, that oil the 30th of April the question woad be introduced to the notice of the House, and
he would state further, that the measure was of such a i
nature that it would be necessary to take the sense of the
House as on former occ?siolis, not upon one, but upon i
various resolutions as the ground work cf the measu:e. II
He thought it his duty to gate that to the House, in order 1
that Hon. Members might have a general view of the nature of II the scheme intended to be proposed. But he declared that it
was the wish of the Govermn 'nt to come to a settlement of I
the question ; and he thought that there was on the part of
those who opposed it in former years a growing desire fur the
settlement ; and he thought that if what he had to propose'
could be made the groundwo; k of the adjustment of this ques-
tion, it would be an advantage to Parliamentin all its branches,
and an advantage to Ireland.—( Hear.) At the beginning of,.
the Session there wero petitions from the clergy, declaring that
they wete satisfied with the present state of things; but meet-
ings of that lexly had since been held which indicated an
altered state of opinion. If indeed it were the opinion of 1
one of the parties, most interested, that the law ought to be
allowed to operate without alteration, Parliament would be
unable to effect a satisfactory arrangement of the question, • ,
aed it would hardly be the duty of the Goeernment_indeed . •
it would scarcely be posssible—to propose, in future, any
measure whatever which could be satisfactory.--(Hear. )
The Noble Lord then peecteded to read the resolutions to the
followin ; ( ff.,et :—tlett the Ecclesiastical Tithe Composition
should be confnued on a rent charge, at the rate cf
7-10ths of the ateese nt—that on the expiration of ( x.sting
interests, so much of this rent charge a,, is chargeable
in lieu of Tithes and Ministers' Money, may be purchased at
sixteen years purchase, according to the original value.
That the Ecclesiastical Commissioners of Ireland be em-
powered to purchase any proportion of Tithe Composition,
not exceeding one-tenth in one year.—( Hear,- hear, hear.)
that until such Composition be collected the T;the Composi-
t on and Ministers money be paid out of the Consolidated Fund.
—(Part of the resolution was entirely lost to those in the gal-
kry. ) The remainder of the resolutions were simply declaratory of the necessity of future regulations for the adjustment of
composition and rent charges. He would now leave it to the
lion. Baronet to state what course he would take, and should
move that the House resolve itself' into a General Committee
on the 30th of April, to take into consideration the state of Irish tithes.
Sir R. PEEL thanked the Noble Lord for the frauk de'
claration of the intentions of the Government, and also for
the decisive proof that he had thought his (Sir Robert -- -.
Peel's) question but a natural one, inasmuch as the
Noble Lord was without any concert with him prepared,
with an answer. He would follow the example set by the Noble
Lord, and eideavour to answer the question he had put, whether
or not upon moving that the House. resolve itself into:a Coln_ .;
inittee on the Municipal Corporation Bill the motion made in the
two preceding years,that the Bill should be separated, would be
rep .ated. There might be some force in the argument that •
it was desirable to proceed with one measure at a time
if the Noble Lord had adhered to that principle, but he
accompan'ee the discussion of the Poor-law Bill with the mea-
sure now proposed to be introduced with respect to the Irish Corporations. Of course, the Noble Lord could not expect
to express any (Onion oe the Resolutions. —( Hear.) He
participated in the wish expressed by the Duke of Wellingto -
et
the close of the last session that it might be possible for
Psi liament to conic to some satisfactory settlement of the ques-
tionswhich had occupied the attention of the Legislature.
There was a prospect of settlement with respect to the Irish
Poor-law Bill. He wished it might be so with respect to the
Irish Corporations and Irish Church.

(LEFT SPEAKIYO.

HOUSE OF LORDS.
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat 011 the Woolgack at
ten minutes past five o'clock.
Lord \VYNFORD presented a petition from a place in
Derbyshire praying for the amendment of the New Poor Law
Act.

The Bishop of HEREFORD presented petitions from
various congregations in Hereford, praying for the total abo-
lition of slavery.
Lord DA CR.E presented netitions from several places in
Hertford and Buckinghamshire, to the same effect.
NEURO APPRENTICESHIP.
The Duke of SUTHERLAND presented petitions from
Stoke-upon-Trent, Cheadle, West Cowes, Houden, and
other places, praying for the immediate abolition of negro
apprenticeship in the West Indies.
The Bishop of C 1-1 E STE R presented petitions to the same
effect from Charlton-upon-Matlock, Salford, and numerous
religious congregations in Manchester.
The Marquis of SLIGO said before he presented the pe-
tition h, held in his hand, ho wished to correct a misconception
had get into the newspapers respecting what he had said
a day or two ago. It was stated by the newspapers that he had
said Mr. Alorrice Jones, a gentleman of great property in Ja-
maica, had declared his intention to emancipate his appren-
tices. He (the Noble Marquis) had stated no such thing, or
at least had not intended to state any such thing.—( Hear,
hear, hear.) He had said that Mr. Jones informed him
that he saw it was inevitable that he should do so
—that he had written to his son to prep ire his apprentices for
it—and that he meant himself to go out to see how the prepa-
ration was going on.
Lord BROUGHAM could not only vouch for the
accuracy of that statement, but he could vouch for
another statement which the Noble Marquis had made, namely,
that it was the intention of the Gentleman who had been
alluded to, and of another, to emancipate their slaves, pro-
vided others would do so likewise in the neighbourhood, which
just made good what he (Lord B.) had always said, that it
would embarrass the whole thing, unless the operation was
made to be general by a Legislative enactment.—( Hear.)
The Marquis of SLIGO presented petitions from the as-
sociated united congregation of Falkirk, the Relief congrega-
tion of Falkirk, East Marling, Haddlehurgh, WiNenhoe and
various other places in Norfolk and its vicinity, praying for
the immediate abolition of Negro apprenticeship ; also a peti-
tion from the London Anti-slavery Society, signed by Thomas
Fowell Buxton, Zlchar:ah 11,14Auiay, and several others, who,
with those he had named, might, he considered, be called
the patriots of the cause, having advocated this cause from
b±ginning to end, and having, though without any com-
munication from him, adopted nearly the same line of
cmduc. which he himself had done. They had not
stood forward for the agitation of the cause, but they
had conic forward when they saw the excitement was
so great that it could no longer be resisted. He felt proud
in having the honour of the presentation of this petition to the

Louse.

(LEFT SITTING.)
______

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, MAReu 26.
Sir 11. VIVIAN must take occasion to express his regret
that the Gallant Captain opposite had availed himself of the
opportunity afforded by his motion to make an attack on his
(Sir H. Vivian's) Gallant Friend.__( hear.) From all he
could learn from the officers who had served in the Legion
along with his Gallant Friend, he was convinced that the ex-
tent cf corporal punishment inflicted was absolutely necessary.
—(llear.) He thought his Gallant Friend deserved great
praise for having, under such a combination of adverse cir-
cumstances, brought the Legion to even a tolerable state of
discipline. The 101st article had been spoken of. Now, al-
though officers were generally considered bad interpreters of
the Articles of War, he would take upon himself to say that
the construction put upon that article by his Gallant Friend
was not harsh or overstrained. He bad himself seen in the
13ritish Army two cases, in one of which a man was shot,
and in the other a man hung, for plunder, under this article,
and he certainly thought that that was a greater stretch of
power than any attempted by his Gallant Friend.—.(Hear.)
With respect to corporal punishment, he (Sir H. Vivian) had
been all his life anxious to see it abolished if possible. To
set himself tight with the House on the subject, he would
read an extract from an order he had made on assuming the
command of the army in Ireland. The extract related to
corporal punishment : it was, " The experience of the Lieut.-
General has convinced him that nothing destroys the effect of
punishment so much as its familiarity, as, however appalling a
first example may appear, its frequent recurrence must he
equally fatal to discipline and to that moral feeling on which
the prosperity of the army depends." The order concluded
thus—" It is with this feeling that the Lieutenant-General
directs the attention of officers to this most desirable object
(the abolition of corporal punishment), assuring them that
their success will give him the greatest satisfaction."—
( Hear.) The lion. and Gallant Member then read another
extract from his general order, the purport of which was to ex-
hort the officers under him to consider themselves in the light
of parents to the soldiers, and proceeded. But, although as
he had thus shown he had been always reluctant to inflict cor-
poral punishment, he must confess that he had never as yet
heard of an efficient substitute for the present system. Some
returns, which he would take the liberty of
reading would
prove the difficulty of even relaxing it—they related to the
number of corporal punishments inflicted in the army in Ire-
land. In 1633 the army consisted of 22,573 men, and the
number of corporal punishments was 254, and desertions 182,
the number of men imprisoned being 873. In 1834 the cor-
poral punishments were reduced to 154, but the number of
desertions increased to 397, and the number imprisoned to
1,532.-4 Hear. ) This was the result to which an abolition
of summary punishment had led. \Vas it proposed to substi-.
tute solitary confinement? When this punishment bad been
tried it had always produced the worst possible effect. The
soldier came out from it a sullen and dogged man, and was
sure to be punished again in the course of the ensuing six
months- He (Sir H. Vivian) would go as far as in him lay
tl forward the abolition of corporal punishments. Bilt he
denied that the soldier felt it to be such a stigma as had been,
desc,ibeLl. Since the discussions which had been raised in, that
House such foa)ing6 might perhaps in some degree be
excited in the soldier. With regard to imprisonment as
a punishment for want of discipline, he could -
press himself favourable to it—it would throw
extra duty
upon duty upon the other men ; and as regarded the
cavalr
duty would he increased, not only by the loss of the man, htheut.
by the care of his horse. Men bad risen front the ranks whas
had been subjected to corporal punishment, and it was but vs
short tine since that he had met with a man, now an. eacer
the Excise, who had been flogg.ed by his eiretaiiwa while
serving' under him, and who stated to him th..: the itogginz