The Sun.
London, England, 1838-06-01 00:00:00

rr LIE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY, .JUNE I, 1633.

THE ARMY.

DISTRIBUTION OF THE BRITISH ARMY.
(Corrected up to this day.)
The following regiments, service companies, and depots of regiments,
of cavalry aad infantry, are thus stationed at home and in the
colonies :

IN E Regiments of Cavalry, viz. :--1 st and 2d
lifeguards, royal horse guards, 3d, 4th, sth, and 6th dragoon guards,
9th lancers, 19th hussars, 12th lancers, and 14th light dragoons. Thir-
teen Regiments of Infantry, viz.:-Ist and 31 battalions of grenadier
guards, Ist bat,a'ion of Coldstream guards, Ist and 2d battalions of
S:•ots fusilier guards, 20th, 29th, 45th, 84th, 88th, 98th, and the Ist
and 2,1 battalions of the r;fle brigade. Twenty-four depots of Regi.
meats :-Ist dragoon guards, 7th hussars, Ist foot, 2d battalion sth,
14th, 24th, 27th, 30th, 32d, 36th, 37th, 43d, 47th, 52d, 56th, 60th
Ist and 2d battalions 67 th, 69th, 70th, 81st, 83d, 89th, and 90th.
IN IRELAND-SIX Regiments of Cavalry, viz :-21 dragoon guards,
Ist, 2d, and 6th dragoons, Bth hussars, and 17th lancers. Fittceir Re.
giments of Infantry-7th, 10th, 19th, 9.2 d, 25th, 3Sth, 42d, 48th, 79th,
86th, 94th, 95th, 36th, 97th, and 99th. Twenty-eight Depots of Re-
giments-Bth, 11th, 12th, 15th, 18th, 23d, 33d, 34'h, 46th, 53,1,
58th, 59th, 61st, 64th, 65th, 66th, 68th, 71st, 72d, 73d, 75th, 76th,
77th, 82.1, 85th, 67th, 92.1, and 93d.
IN SCOTLAND-TWO Regiments of Cava!ry, viz :-7th dragoon
•guards, and 15th hussars. Two Regiments of Infantry-Ist royals,
Ist battalion, and 78th Ilighlanders. Three Depots cf Regiments-
35th, 74th, and 91st.

is IxDIA-Four Regiments of Cavalry, viz. :-3d, 4th, and 13th
light dragoons, and 16th lane:rs. Twenty Regiments of Infantry-2d,
3d, 4th, 6th, 9th, 13th, 16th, 17th, 26th, 31st, 39th, 40th, 41st, 44th,
49th, 54th, 37th, Gild, and 633.
IN Nonni AMERICA..-TWO Regiments of Cavalry, viz :-Ist Dra-
goon Guards, and 7th Hussars. Sixteen Regiments of Infantry-2d
battalion Grena&cr Guards, 20 battalion Coldstream Guard:, Ist foot
20 battalion, 11th, 15th, 23d, 24th, 84t1), 43d, 65th, 66th, 71st, 73d,
830, 85th, and 933.

IN MEDITERRANEAN.—Eight Regiments of Infantry, viz :-sth, 47th,
531, 59th, Ist and 2d kittalions of the 6in h rifles, 77th and 92d.
IN WEST !MMES.—Eight Regiments of Infantry, viz. : 14th, 36th,
67th, 69th, 70th, 74th, 76th, and 89th.
Is JAMAICA..—Fire Regiments of Infantry, viz. 37th, 56th,
64th, and 68th.

IN GIBRALTAR.—Five Regiments of Infantry, viz.:-33d, 46th, 52d,
Blst, ~nd 82d.

IN NEW SOUTH WALES AND VAN DIEMEN'S LAND—Five Reg
ments of Infantry, viz :-9.lst, 9.80), 50th, 51,t, and 80th.

Iv CEYLON—hour Regiments of Infantry, voct—lStit, 59th, tilsi
and 90th.

AT TIIE CAPE or Goon Hoes—Threw Regiments of Infantry, viz
72.1, and 75th.

IN THE MAURITIUS-Three Regiments of Infantry, 12. h, 35th
and 87th.

Ar BEIMCDA—One Regiment of Infantry, 30th.
Ar Sr. HELENA—OM? Regiment of infantry, 91st.
ON PASSAGE liuMG—Onj 11.7giGICIlt of Cavalry, 1 Ith Light Dra.
goons. •

Total—iii; Regiment; of Cavalry, 109 Battalion; of Infantry.
The new Military Commission to inquire into claims ha.; been as!.
jAtrned until after the Coronation.

‘Ve are much gratified in being ahl2 to state, on gi-,od authot ity, that
there is not the slightest ground fitr the report of the i3d regiment hay.
ing lisen attacked hi the cholera at the Cape, thtelaa accounts from th t•
lesTrib:vg them as unusually

The 3:ith depot has arrived at Glasgow from Londonderry, and i.,
proceod on to Stirling.
Tl'e 76th depot front Scotland has arrived in Dublin.

Sir Ja,per Nie;nills is r*ortett as tiF:rly to stice,rd Sir Peee;.rin,
Maitland in his oioaid in India. Sr Lionel Smith, it is also said
kill resin his Govclntnent of Jamaica so • soon as a successor is ap.
pointed.

We understalid that Miss Cooper, a 1.1,1 y of no or-
dinary talents, both an a vocalist and an instrumental perfirmer, is to
gAte a concert at Hanover-sr-pi:ire Rooms, this evening. We
heartily wish her the success which her acquirements so well des:Tve.
SHIP SAINT OF TIIE CHINESE.—A light was
burning (in the cabin) in a little cupboard. On looking into it there
was a great profusion of decoratiiin, pieces of tinse', artilcial leaves,
and the like, to be seen. At the back part was seated a little waxen
image, dressed out with silks and gaudy ribbons. This was the guar-
dian saint of the boat, to which the sailurs, twice a day, otlhr sweet-
meats, fruit, and little cups of tea. After waiting a due time, to see
whether she will accept the °fret lug, the boatmen generally assist her in
the matter by swa!lowing, it themseives. She is considered the patroness
of sailurs, and goes by the name of '• Tien-how, or ()leen of Heaven."
In fact, it was a (Thus-house or church, which, upon inquiry,
found was never omitted even in the s:nallest vessel.—The Fan-qui
in Cizioa.
The most extraordinary otter hunt ever known in

the West of England took place last week in Dagford Wcir, in the pa
rish of Lapford, adj,:ining the Exeter and Barnstaple new turupke,
with those well trained and justly celebrated hounds, belonging to that
true and indefatigable sportsman Mr. Henry Torr, of Westleigh, near
Bideford, together with those of that well known veteran Sedick. After
hunting a beautiful frail, the otter was marked at twehe o'c'ock in that
most formidable piece of water, being at least a mile in length without a
shallow, and from 12 to 16 foot In depth ; from that tirn, to a quarter to
nine, he was worked without intermission in the most persevering style.,
till ht. became quite exhausted, being repeatedly obliged to swim on the
surface of the water, ansi was at last taken, and killed by the hounds at
a quarter be:ore nine (after the protracted contest of eight hours and
three quarters) amid the applause of scores of-admiring speetwors. This
piece of water has ever been the terror of otter hunters, and hitherto
an impe.gnable hold for otters, this being the first ever killed, although
numbers have been found by various celebrated packs, owing to the nu-
merous strong lairs on each side.—Western Times.
POISONING BY ARSENIC.—Ii is our painful duty
to record another case of poisoning, by arsenic. A man and woman at
Stodmarsh were a short time since brought to an untimel) grave by eat_
bug food with which arsenic was accidentally mixed. On Saturday
morning last the daughter of Mr. Aslibee, of Saint Stephen's near this
city, was taken suddenly and dangerously ill, when the medical gentle.
man that was called in immediately suspected she had been taking the
poisonous mineral, and a further investigation left no doubt that this was
too true. 'the young wom.,n had been assisting a nelghbnur who had
cry incautiously spread powdered arsenic upon bread and butter, and
by some means a portion of it had been taken by the young woman. We
understand that her life was despaired of for some time, and s!ie remains
in the most imminent peril. An opinion has long been entertained that
the Legislature ought to restrict the sale of this powerful destroyer of
vitality, which is often sold without any admonition or inquiry. Another
foal occurrence took place in the neighbourhood of Canterbury last
week, where an inexperienced vender of drugs prescribed certain nos-
trums to a child who was ailing, and which, on the parent raising it to

dress it on the morning following it had taken the " treating" draught,
was found quite dead The effect produced on the mind of the unhappy
mother, on discovering that her child was lifeless, was so overwhelming,
that it induced some of the worst symptoms of mania —Kent Herald.
GREEN TEA.—Green teas are very little used by
the Chinese, though the " cup that cheers, but not inebriates," is uni-
versal throughout the whole of the celestial empire, and is brought Ibr.
ward on all occasions and at all times of the day. Public tea houses are
found in evyry town and in every village in China. On remarking to a
Hong merchant that the Chinese only use black lea, and asking for
what reason, he replied in a tone plainly showing in what estimation it
is held, " What ! drink that poison stuff?" Ladies at home
may take the hint.—Dr. ltusehenbergeds Voyage round the it mid
(Bentley.)
FLOGGING FEMALE PRISONERS--The Balti-
more papers give an interesting account of the female desperado, lately
condemned to two years imprisonment it, the penitentiary of that city,
under the name of George Wilson, for horse-stealing. Very few facts
can be ascertained respecting her personal history, as she maintains a
ne,iyoeytt,i:krt esst.aterporr
dogged silence in all that relat to herself The Balli);iore Gazelle says:
--At a very early age, say 12 or 14, she assumed male attire; entered
years—fifteen months
very young as a sailor before the mast, and has crossed the oeenn in that
stealing
of which time was passed in soltary confinement. While there,
capacityconfin e 1 eight
h or nine
ison lirr tv,sltoe
yweaasr, some time since
s!le steadily refused to work, and every effort of punishment
or persuasion failed to hat the Last effect upon her. The
tary confinement was resottcd to fir the purpose of brcal ing her deter-
mined spirit, but it was in vain. Lashings on the bare back, a regimen
of bread and water for weeks at a time, and various other punishments,
were resorted to, but she remained immoveable in her determination not
to work, and w.ls only relieved at times from this severe treatment,
by direction of the physician, who frequently found nature Yielding
to severity, until the term of her imprisonment expired. In our
state prison she is equally incorrigible. Under the severest punish.
moot, she shows not the slightest sign of anger or emotion, and will strip
to receive the lash with as much apparent unconcern as though she were
. ,
• .

going to bed—nor does she cringe under the stroke. Her determined
perseverance is a source of mtaLb pain to the keeper, who cannot
allow of any insubcml.naton, a.id has therefore to inflict such punish-
ment.; as the regulations of the institution demand in cases where pri
scalers refuse to work. In stature she is somewhere about five feet
eight inches, and as muscular as a pugilist. Her face looks like the face
of a man. It does not show anytbing like a wicked spirit; but is settled,
stern, and thoughtful—never relaxing into a smile. Sire of course
knows nothing of woman's work. She can handle a needle with no
further dexterity than will enable her to sew a button on her Pants.
loons. She is an English woman by birth, and has intimated her listen.
tion of having her life written out and published when she returns to her
native country.
_ _

A NEWSPAPER.—Freshness of effect belongs to a
newspaper, ard distinguishes it from a library book, the former being
the zenith and the latter the nadir, with a number of inlermediate, de-
grees, occupied by pamphlets, magazines, and reviews. Besides, in a
daily paper, with advertisements, proportionate in its large size, what is
deferred must, four tines out of five, be extinguished. A newspaper
is a market for flowers and vegetables, rather than a granary or conser_
vslory, and the draw', of its editor a common burial ground, trot a
catacomb for embalmed mummies, in which the deform, are preserved
to serve in after times as medicine for the living.—Coleridge.
CHINESE BOAT RACES.—On the fifth day of the
fifth moon are launched into the river boats made very narrow, but of
such a length that they are cap..ble of holding from fifty to eighty men
each. Every m.di works with a paddle, and, of course, the rapidity of
the motion must be very great. These are called dragon. boats, from
their great length, and the fierceness with which they compete together.
This is almost the only time when the Ch:nese chew any rivalry in
athletic exercises, but they enter into this sport with becoming spirit
The long, narrow barges, being arranged in proper order, start together.
and each stroke of the paddles is regulated by the sound of a gong, with
which one of the men stands up in the boat and beats the proper time.
In the heat of competition the v:ssels often come into collision, when
others have been mixed
they are frequently upset or broken, the cliscomfitted watermen swim-
ruing to the nearest shore.—The Fan-qtti in China.
The recent rains, the change of the wind from East
to West and South, and a more genial warmth, have at length afforded a
the
enjoyed, it beautifies, it re-
better aspect to the Wheatntti3: co,
brsoeepepsnatiicn)ll7retnisagn,ivi)eir,deprluealc) Butoai t
utterly marry fieldsfi
co;
it withers, deteriorates, and
E.—Pleasure is to women what
with I;arley anti tihtiysecoi,u:F
The Barley has come up well.—SiircwsburY Chronicle.
ioffiitm.dinnm(°iliseetrriaacttleeilifYYe, exercised, as DOM ESTIC L
(ftli:eesstir,soeusiiasi,dutoititttihtnileiperfl(olouvwetisec;rs
they must be,
in retirement, and calling forth all the sensibilities of the female, tire,
perhaps, as necessary to the full development of her ch :rms,as the shade
and the shower are to the rose, confirming its beauty and increasing its
fragrance.
CATCHING WATER-RATS IN
way of catching the large water-rat is so peculiarly Chinese that it
deserves to be mentioned. Time animals live in holes under the ex.
eavateil banks of streams, and from thence sally forth into the water.
The rat-catcher proceeds in the darkness of the night to the spot, and
place', one of his showy lanterns immediately before the hole. when
the rat conies out to see what is the matter, he is so astonished and
dazzled with the light that he becomes motionless, and then the China.
man is enabled to capture him with ease.—The Fan.yni ia China.
CABINET AT THE TUILERIES ON THE RE-
ruuN Perim Ef.na.—ln the interior of the cabinet some curious things
took place. The march of the Emperor had been so rapid, that many
addresses to the King rrrived at the same time as the addresses to the
Emperor. Napoleon took a malicious pleasure in ex: mining the signa.
tures of prefects, and other authorities, who formerly hal been loaded
wa benefits fromhim. " Look at these men," said he, with a smile
of pity ; one must laugh at them to avoid feel.ngs Wel viation and
regret."—Becolledions Caulincourt, Duke elf Vicenza.

ELECTION COMM ETTE ES.

YESTERDAY.

(From our Second Edition of last night.)
WESTMEATH.

The Committee met at the usual hour.
The CHAIRMAN announced he had received a letter from Mr. Rose,
the Examiner (who had given evidence on tt'e.question of a Commission),
to correct a statement respecting the remuneration to be paid surveyors,
which, after some discussion, was agreed to.
The scrutiny was then proceeded with. The petitioner's Counsel ob-
ject:l to the vote of J. Anderson, and called f. witness, whom he aske..l
whether he considered a r:..spectable, a solvent, and responsible tenant
would pay more than 101; for a haus:, the value of which the witness had
stated at 111. per annum ?

Mr. MERGER (for the sitting Member) objectod to the question, as
irrelevant.

The arguments on this point were notconcluded when the Committee
at four o'clock adjourned.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS. MAY 31.

The Loan CHANCELLOR took his Seat on the Woolsack et Five o'Clock
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER and others brought up the Ex-
chequer (13,000,0004) Bill, and the Regency Act Amendment Bill.
The several Bills on the tble were advanced a stage.
Lord PORTMAN presented three petitions for the immediate aboli.
tion of the system of Negro apprenticeship.
The Marquis of SLIGO presented several numerously-signed pe-
titions from ladies to the same effect.

The Bishop of LONDON laid upon the table a Bill for settling the
law with regard to ecclesiastical adrowsons and other property belonging
to Municipal Corporations in Eng,and and %Vales. The Bill came
recommended by the Ecclesiastical Commission; as Well as by the law
officers of the Crown.—TO be read a second time the first sitting after
the holidays.

Earl RIPON gave notice that, to-morrow, he would present a peti-
tion from Nottingham, respe:ting the application from that town for a
charter under the Municipal Corporation Bill.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY presented a petition from the
poorest parish in the County of Donegal, against the Irish Poor Law
Bill. The Noble Lord, at some length, supported the prayer of the
petition.

HINDOO IDOLATRY.
The Bishop of LONDON said he should, at no distant period, put
a question to the Noble Viscount at the head of her Majesty's Govern-
ment, with respect to the countenance given by the Government of
India to Hindoo Idolatry, unless the Queen's Government should
by that time be prepared to afford a satisfactory answer on the subject.
Lord MELBOURNE replied that the Government of her atajcsty
had felt it their duty to direct their earnest attention to the subject.
NEGRO SLAVERY.

Lord BROUGHAM asked what steps had been adopted for carrying
into effect an order of the Imperial Government, dated August, 1835,
for the liberation of 2,000 non-registered slaves in the Mauritius ?
Lord GLENELG replied that these slaves had not been liberated—
it not having been considered (as we understood), that non.registra_
Lion was a sufficient ground for their immediate emancipation.
LOrd BROUGHAM remarked he was sorry to hear that. The
Noble and Learned Lord proceeded to ask whether it was true that the
Loral Legislatures of Nevis, Montserrat, Tortola, and Barbsdoes, had
passed Acts lir immediately emancipating the Negro slaves in those
islands
Lord GLENELG answered in the affirmative.
Lord BROUGHAM said it was an ac which did the highest honour
to the local legislatures of these colonies.
IRISH POOR LAW. '
The Order of the Day fOr the adjourned debate on- this Bill having
been read, the House resolved itself into a Committee.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that the House now having re.
solved itself into a Commilee, it was advisable that they should come
to an understanding asr4o tEe precise amendment which had been moved
—various words having on a former night been suggested.
Earl FITZ WIT.LIAM said that the question which now arose was,
whether the word " workhouse" should stand part of the clause.
The Marquis of CONYNGHAM had listened with the greatest at-
tention to the arguments of the Noble Lords opposite, but he must
honestly confess that he had not heard one which brought conviction
to his mind as to the expediency of this Bill. It seemed to be agreed
on all sides that they could not any longer witness the prevalence of
misery and poverty in that country, without acknowledging that
seine steps must be taken for the better maintenance ar:d regula.
tion of the poor, and though he admitted that the generosity of in_
dividuals had been great,_ yet when they were told of the vast num-
bers who perished, if not ,from positive want, at least from the dis-
eases which were brought on by want or by had food, it was mani-
fest that the case went far be3ond the reach' of the private benevolence.
He had long thought, and his conviction had become stronger, that, with
the example of the English Ponr.laws bef, re them, a measure like the
present Might, could, and sheuid be given to the sister country, believ-
ing, as he did, that :nothing - was more likely to put a check to the
struggles which had -unfortunately taken pare bettveen landlord and
tenant. He maintained that the workhouse system would pro-
duce the most beneffcial effects; because, without overburthen-
ing the small landed proprietors, it would afford security that hence-
, forth no one should be allowed to perish for want.—(Hear, hear.)
Nor could he imagine for a moment that the workhouses would be
found insufficient, because it was acknowledged that no people could
have a more sensitive dislike of workhouses than the poor of
Ireland, and that, in fact, where they did not work, it was from no dis-
inclination to work, but from their inability to get any work. Let the
House remember, too, that it would be easy to extend the operation of
the measure afterwards; but it would not be so easy, after having once
extended it, to retrench its operation.—(tTear, hear, hear.) He hoped
their Lordships would excuse him if, painful as it was, he said a few
words on matters purely, personal. Mr. Nicholl had particularly al-
luded to the property which was in his neighbourhood, and had said that
a part of his property was in a dreadful condition. With grief and sorrow
he owned it ; but with respect to his own property, before it came into
his possession, in consequence of circumstances to which he need not al-
lude, that odious system of underletting had beets adopted. He could
assure their Lordships that three-fourths of his tenantry held under
an anneal rent of 51—(Hear.) Xt had been said, why did not he make
larger farms I But circumstanced as Ireland was, their Lordships knew
tharetuctance with which an Irishin'im gave up any portion of land—
(Hear, hear)—it was not an object so easily effected. But he would at
once a Unit that even if he had the power, he had not the heart to dispos.
ECSS those miserable peasants of their small farms. It had been said that
this treasure would hold out to the landed proprietors an interest in
sweeping off, as it was called, these small tenants ; but he could
tell them how that object might he carried into effect. Let them secure
the inward tranquillity of Ireland, and they would soon have the
farms larger; and if they would improve the social and moral con.
dition of the people they must first chew themselves to be alive to their
wants and interests,
The Earl of FINGAL thought public opinion in Ireland was pre.
pared for the Bill. In the report of the Commission, of which he (the
Earl of Fingal) was one, they said " that it had been suggested to us to
recommend a Poor Law for Ireland similar to the English Law, but we
are of opinion that the provisions of a Poor-law for Ireland must vary
essentially from those of the Law in England. The circumstances of the
country differ widely, and in legislating we submit that the measure
should be one of reference as well to circumstances as to principles." In
this he fully agreed, but it had been said that he, with two of the other
Commissioners, had signed a protest against the whole report. The fact
was they had only signed it against that port which left the poor to look
for relief to what was called the semi.voluntary donations. With re.
sheet to the powers of the Commissioners, he thought in the eircutn-
stances of Ireland that greater power ought to be given than to the Com-
missioners in England. Everybody who knew anything of Ireland
must agree in the propriety of such a course. On these grounds, there-
fore, Ire should vote for the substitution of the word poorhouse for
workhouse.

Lord FITZGERALD said that he would read the amendment he in-
tended to propose. It was as follows:—" And be it enacted that when
the Commissioners shall have declared any poor-house of any Union
to_be fit for the reception of the destitute poor, and not before, it shall
be lawful for the Guardians in their discretion, but subject in all cases
to the orders of the Commissioners, to take order for relieving therein
all destitute persons, either incurably lame, blind, sick, or labouring
under permanent bodily infirmity, and in consequence of such lameness,
blindness, sickness, or bodily infirmity, incapable of gaining their liveli-
hood by their labour, or destitute persons incapable through temporary
lameness, blindness, or bodily infirmity, during such term as they should
continue so incapable ; and also all orphans and deserted children ; and
it shall be lawful for such Guardians to employ in such poorhouses all
such destitute persons admitted therein as can be employed in any la
hour suited to their strength."
Lord PORTMAN thought it very wise to have avoided the law of
settlement, and, having done so, he thought it would be wise to avoid
the definition which the Noble Lord wished to insert into the Bill. If
the discretion of the Commissioners were limited it would altogether
alter the principle of the Bill. He was aware that any Englishman's
speal:ing on the subject might be considered either an impertinence or
an intrusion; but lie had risen merely to express a hope that the relief
would be confined to the destitute, according to the decision of the
guardians.

' Lord BROUGHAM having debited the question on the second read-
, ing, should not now rise but in consequence of that which had fallen
' from his Noble Friend—the pleasantry of his Noble Friend, for he sup_
Posed he must take it as such. Nothing could be more consistent than
• his opposing a Bill for the universal relief of the poor and his wishing to
• Intuit a measure of the same kind to the narrowest bounds.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE did not see the ruin that would
arise in Ireland from this Bill, but he quit:. agreed that the people would
not consent to go into the workhouse. What was the use, then, of
taxing the country to the extent of a million for this purpose? The
only persons who would be relieved would be those who were at present
ciamourous tar employment, and who .(as we understood the Noble
Marquis) would receive some of the employments created under this
Bill. It was said if landlords turned out their tenants that they would
have a refuge. But how were they to have a refuge ? Mr. Nichol'
had said that there would be So,oollpersons provided with relief under
this Bill, but as there was no law of settlement those who had an intim.
trious and thriving tenantry would have their estates inundated with
tle paupers of a less fortunate district. He though that a poor law for
Ireland ought to be confined, at least in the first instance, to the aged,
the impotent, and the sick. Under these circumstances he would vote
for confining relief within those limits.—(Hear.)
The Duke of WELLINGTON concurred in the opinion expressed
in the course of the debate, that the whole question with respect to the
operation of this measure turned upon the point whether the word
workhouse or poorhouse should be introduced into this cause of the
But. If the word workhouse should be expunged, the whole tenor of the
Bill would be altered, and this would follow, if the proposition of the
Noble Lord was adopted with respect to that part of the Bill which he
proposed to amend. If they substituted the word poorhouse for work-
house, they would then, by continuing the present machinery
of the Bill, incur ant expense which the state of things for which
they would have to provide would by no means require. If they
consented to extend the proposed relief no further than to the
relief of the aged, the infirm, and those other classes to whom it was
confined by the amendment, why in that case they would not want the
machinery of even almshouses. The machinery which at present existed
in Ireland would be sufficient for what they had ill view, and would
enable them to accomplish all that they desired for that purpose. He
contended, however, that this was not the sole object with respect to
which it was desirable to make a provision in Ireland. They must look
farther. They must take into consideration all that had been done
already, and that too under a form and state of circumstances the con-
tinuance of which they could by no means consider to be desirable, nor
he would add, justifiable--a state of circumstances which ought not to
be allowed to exist, nay, more, which ought not to be allowed to exist
in any country. He alluded to the state of destitution which
existed io all the large towns, not a'one in Dublin but in other
host ns as well, and he alio alluded to the means that were resorted
to to provide for the relief of that destitution. Lit them look to
what was done by the Mendicity Society and by other Societies who
attempted—for it was nothing snore than an attempt-0 relieve this
destitution. After all they could do no more than attempt to relieve it.
our, he would ask, were there no other circumstances in the state of
Ireland which required measures a little stronger than the erection of
poor-houses as receptacles of the lame, and the impotent, and the sick,
as comprised in the amendment of the Noble Lord ? When discussing
the measure before the House it was much the practice to refer to what
passed in this country and in Scotland. He had certainly been much
struck by the allusion made on a former night by a Noble. and
Learned Lord (Lord Brougham, we believe) to the state of the law in
Scotland, but the Noble and Learned Lord did not state what the law
of Scotlaml was. The law of Scotland was, in many respects touching
the relief of time poor, the same as in England (so we understood the
Noble Duke), but there was no such thing in Scotland as workhouses
erected by.rates levied on the parish. There certainly were numerous

poor-houses and alms-houses in Scotland, in different parts of the coun-
try. There was no relief given to the able-bodied, and the relief under
the law was confined to the aged and the infirm, but relief in other re-
spects was given by the charity of the Church. There was, however,
quite a different state of things in !Mend. Contributi ns for the relief
of deritution were collected at the church and chapel doors in Ireland.
But, out of all question, if they entered into the present subject at all,
they should do so in such a way as to afford a prospect that what they
were about to do should be done in the most effectual manner. Go-
verned by all these considerations, and influenced by the s iews which he
had submitted to the House, he hoped that their Lordships would de-
cide against any such alteration of the Bill as had been proposed. Shenk!
their Lordships so decide, it was his intention, when they proceeded fur-
ther in the clause, to make a propositien to their Lordships, which he
should put in as few wopds as would distinctly answer the purpose he
had in view. He had it in contemplation to add a few words at the end
of the clause, in order to limit the expense as far as possible, and to
render it as economical as it could be made. With respect to that part
of the subject he could not avoid reverting to a calculation which had
been made in the course or the debate. It had been stated that the
workhouses would in their erection cost 20,000/. each. So tar as they
might judge from what they had seen in this country, he certainly
thought that the sum would be sufficient for the purpose. But suppos-
ing that the entire expense for that purpose should be 700,0001, seeing
the provision which the Government made for the defraying of the ex-
pense—seeing, also, that the repayment of the money was to be post-
poned for a considerable time—and seeing, also, that the interest was
(if we understood the Noble Duke correctly) to be allowed to accrue
for the payment of the principal—considering all this, he did not
see how that part of the expense could fall heavily upon the
landlords of the country, and he did not think that, so far as
that part of the burthen was concerned, they would have much cause
to complain. As to the other expenses involved it would be easy to
calculate them. He confessed that there was one part of the measure
—that which related to the mode of levying rates—which he considered
to be highly objectionable.—(Hear, hear.) He thought that holders of
land to the amount of 51. per annum ought to be relieved altogether.
He also felt that there was another class who had strong claims to consi.
deration, and who, nevertheless, were liable to taxation under this law.
He alluded to persons who, though they held large estates, yet had large
demands upon them for the payment of the interest of mortgages, ennui.
ties, and other charges of a like nature. He mutt, however, admit that
these persons had similar demands for the payment of grand jury
coos and every other description of local charges. It was unquestionably
a great grievance to subject them to taxation under this Bill, but he
could not find a remedy unless they went to the extent of exc uoing
them altogether. He would not at present enter upon any observations
with respect to the power given by the Bill to the Commissioners and
Board of Guardians. If the amendment now before their Lordships
shotild be concurred in and pass, in that case he Certainly admitted
that it would not be desirable that those powers should be granted. It
was not fair to say that the Bill gave unlimited power of taxation to the
Commissioners, whilst, in reality, another body—the Board of Guar-
dians, controuled the expense, and levied the rate far the reimburse.
meat of that expense. He would not at present further trespass on their
Lordships; but, feeling that an alteration of the entire principle was
involved in the amendment before them, he should feel it his duty to
vote against it.—(Hear, hear.)
The Earl of CHICHESTER should regard such a measure with the
utmost jealousy. It was a serious thilog to interfere with the charitable
disposition of the people, and in particular where interference went to the
extent of preventing its exercise, as this law avowedly was calculated
to do. If they afforded to the able-bodied relief how were they to pre-
vent vagrancy and all its evil consequences ? How were they to pre-
vent the natural effects upon the minds of the working classes which
such a provision would produce ? He, however, did not mean to say
that it would be advisable to check vagrancy in Ireland by a penal law :
for vagrancy in that country had not been attended with any of the
moral evils which it tended to foster in England. The projected mode
of relief had this objectionable feature; it proposed to tax for the
relief of the paupers those who in general provided work for
the labourers.—(Hear.) This was, in his (Lord Chichester's) opi.
nion, a most injurious and ill-judged provision. He wished to impress
upon their Lordships this fact that it was not to a legal provision for the
poor they should look for a remedy against the evils that afflicted Ire-
land. The utmost effect such provision could produce would be to
remove impediments which at present existed. He should certainly
support the amendment. •
The LORD CHANCELLOR concnrred in the opinion of the Noble
Duke opposite that the amendment affected the principle of the Bill,
and that they should not look upon it solely as being calculated to afford
relief to the people, but they should also consider it as vitally affecting
the general condition of the country. 'I he object. Of the Bill was to al.
leviate the miseries, to relieve the distresses, of a mass of their fellow_
creatures in Ireland; and that distress and misery to no ordinary
extent existed there could not be a doubt. If any Noble Lord was un-
acquainted with the real destitution to which the labouring class its Ire.
land were reduced let them look to the report of the Poor Law Commis-
sioners—let them look to the statement of Mr. Nicholl—let them look to
the statement of a Noble Lord who load the experience of being one of the
Commissioners of the English Amendment Poor-law, or lie would refer
them to the clear and able publication of his Friend the Hon. and Learned
Member for Galway. Ile (the Lord Chancellor) was previously aware that
much distress prevailed amongst the labouring population of Ireland;
but until he had perused those:reports he had not the most distant
idea of the extent to which it prevailed. It was quite evident that a
most vicious system prevailed throughout all the agricultural districts of
Ireland. Land was not paid for in money by the labourer, who held a
cottage and a small portion of ground. It was paid for by the wages of
the labourer. What was the result ? The farmer allot•el him the
smallest portion which would enable him to maintain his life during the
year. The labourer who required it for his actual existence, took it at
any price, however exorbitant. What then was the consequence?
Why, that frequently, from the exorbitant price demanded, although in
labour, he was unable through its produce to maintain himself and
those dependent upon him, and his wife and children were driven
to wander as mendicants throughout the surrounding districts,
depending for support upon casual charity extended to them
by others, scarcely removed in the extent of misery from them-
selves. In this state of mendicancy they remained for two or
three months during the most pressing period of the year. Cottagers
were obliged to afford relief to those numerous applicants ; they were
either frightened into an acquiescence, or their own generosity of dispo.
sition induced them to do it, and they continued to afford relief to those
mendicants until, in numberless cases, they were driven to mendicancy
themselves, by this reckless exercise of charity. Was that to be per-
mitted to exist ? Was not the Legislature called upon to interfere with
so glaring an evil ? Surely they were not to permit so frightful a
system to continue in operation throughout the agricultural districts
of Ireland, and refrain from making any attempt to check it. It
load been said that the farmer, being the provider of labour,
might be taxed toe heavily. But suppose the case of an able.
bodied labourer, who, by being charged an exorbitant price
for an insufficient quantity of land, was driven to mendicancy,
would it not be a reward to the farmer for his overcharge, if
casual charity or any other means afforded relief to the la-
bourer during that period of the year when the greatest distress
existed ? The evidence went the other way, and so far from the far-
mer lacing allowed to remain free from taxation, he should be just as
liable in his proper 'degree as any other. There was another aject ion
torged'againse the Bill, namely, its magnitude. Surely, if the evils were
of such vast magnitude, they required the more exertion in order to re.
move theme or alleviate their pressure. Were they to avoid interference
with the sufferings of the. working population, because those sufferings
were great and of vast magnitule ? Was it right the people of Ireland
should remain in a state of destitution P Surely it was not. 7 hen were
they to refuse relief because the question of affording or withholding it
was of magnitude and impOrtanee. With respect to the amendment, it
would, if carried, be most injurious. The Noble and Learned I.ord then
proceeded to state, that, in his opinion, when they had brought the agri.
culture of Ireland into a healthy stale, then they might carry their prin-
ciple further—(Hear)—and establish some other test as to whether the
poor man was or was not able to support himself. But let them nut say
that because they nought be afraid that this Bill went too far that
therefore they were cpposed to all accommodation in the matter.—
(Hear.) Let them not destroy the principle in which it was proposed to
relieve the poor of Ireland.—(Hear.)
The Earl of HADDINGTON said the disease under which England
laboured was not poverty, but pauperism ; but that of Ireland was ab-
solute destitution, and, in his opinion, this measure would be found quite
inadequate to relieve it, inasmuch as it gave that as a test of destitution
which he was afraid would be found to be no test at all, viz., the work.
house.—(Hear, hear.) They were proposing to introduce into Ireland
the principle of relieving the able-bodied.—(Hear, hear) By this the
expectation of the Irish would naturally be raised to far too high a pitch
—(Hear, hear)—and it would be a gross mockery to a people of so ex-
citeable a disposition as they were. It made the workhouse the test
of destitution, and that alone would be food for the agitators.—
(Hear, hear, and cheers.) In England out door relit f was td.
ministered under the Poor.laws, and for every one relieved in the
workhouse five were relieved out of it (Hear, hear.) In apply-
ing this measure to Ireland they were applying to that country
the worst features of the system which had been for many years pau-
perising England; and how could they expect by so doing to improve
the moral and social condition of Ireland?—(Hear, hear) They were
not going to offer a measure of relief for the whole of Ireland, but only
proposed to lodge 80,000 persons.—(Hear.) They must take a larger
view of the question—(Hear)—they must look at it its a more practical
view, and consider whether by relieving a certain set of persons only
they might not be sowing the seeds of mischief that would spring up
hereafter to the injury of millions yet unborn.—(Hear, hear.) Under
these circumstances, then, he was compelled to come to the conclusion
that it was a dangerous principle to relieve the able-bodied poor of Ire_
land.—(Hear, hear.) In proportion as they taxed the landlords of Ire.

land fur the re:ief of the able-bodied in the same proportion would they
be taking out of their pockets the means of giving such person! em-
ployment.—(Hear, hear ) They would throw on them a tax of some
400,0001. or 500,0001. a. year, and would it not be far better that that
sum should be spent in employing the able-bodied poor in public works
or any other way that might offer?

Lord CARBERY said that the measure was too extensive, and
would not secure the support of the gentry of Ireland. Would it not,
then, be better to introduce a measure of a more limited nature, in
order to secure unanimity, which was most desirable in such important
matters as those comprehended under a poordaw for Ireland ?—(Hear.)
The Eat I of ABERDEEN thought nothing could be more natural
than the suggestion that they should try the experiment on a limited
scale. They, however, were not about to do so, but to pass a Bill as
extensive as it would be expensive. He &jetted to the workhouses, be-
cause he thought the money they wou'd cost might be mote profitably
employed in other ways. Unless it could be proved that the poor could
be better relieved in the workhouses than out of them, he should main.
tain that they ought not to resort to the workhouse system.

. -
Earl FITZ WILLIAM, in reply, contended that if they established
an irresistible claim to relief in the workhouse whi,th the Bill proposed
to do, they would establish an irresistible claim under certain circum-
stances to out-door relief, as, for example, in the case of the workhouse
being full. Under every view of the case he looked upon the Bill as
ono by no means favourable to the people of Ireland. Ile therefore felt
bound strongly to oppose it.

Lord CLONCUR RY was of opinion that a measure like this would be
unnecessary if encouragement were given to public works in Ireland,
and facilities afforded to the landlords to employ the poor in the cultiva•
tion of waste lands in that countryt He believed, however, that in the
absence of such measures the present Bill was calculated to effect con.
s band, so far from supporting the amendment, he would
rather exclude good,clud
ethe impotent than the able-bodied from the right to relief.
The Earl of RADNOR opposed the amendment, and approved of this
measure, because under it no powers were given to the Commissioners
beyond what was warranted by the necessity of the case.
The Earl of OLENG A LL thought the measure was almost universally
unpopular in Ireland. There was, indeed, one class who naturally
enough supported the Bill ; tbr he was informed by common report that
there were 1,800 applications for places under it already.—(Laughter.)
Ile felt that the Bill stood very much in need of amendment, and would
vote accordingly.

The Marquis of LANSDOWNE felt it his duty to vote against the pro-
position of his Noble Friend. The Bill was, he admitted, an expvri-
mental one, of a decidedly hazardous and dangerous character; still, it
had been decided upon, after mature deliberation, as a measure warranted
by the necessity of the case. Great expences in the building of work-
houses,&c.,would have to beincurred ; great changes in the local arrange-
ments of society throughout Irelmd would necessari'y be caused ; and
he felt that there would be a consistency in allowing the primary
experimental measure to be proceeded with in its integrity before ad.
ditional expenses (and perhaps dangers also) were incurred by the in-
termixture of another and a contradictory system. If the amendment
of the Noble Lord were to be adopted all the effect of the measure on
the landlord, the farmer, and the labourer himself would be lost; and
that thing which, of all others, should most be avoided in it—giving a
right to relief—would be by its means created and affirmed. Thus a
premium would be held out to frauds of eveiy description on the part of
those who should choose to feign destitution. If ;his right to relief
were established by the Bill in the present state of Ireland it would
amount to a complete confiscation of the property of that country—

s attorneys, and not Or theyr
(wHoeuaird)—thaenndb,eifaaßlialwi
foorfusieetrtelelirenrenoti.
pzre to be superadded, the Wool se
of Ireland. He had the fullest confidence that the provisions et t_e
measure would be satisfactorily cart led out by the Commissioners.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY objected to the petition quote:.7,
the Noble Marquis, inasmuch as toe high sheriff who had empann Ile"
• It
tion under these circumstances a most extraordinary proceeding. _
the jury w himself' illegally appointed ; and he c nsidered its rrocuc
u:d have no weight with the House. Wear respect to the measure
question, as a laded resident proprietor, he for one did not desire. that
the exreriment adverted to by the Noble Marquis should be made
Ireland.
The Earl of MULGR AVE was p 1 ced in a delicate situation•
th:Aet
reilesentative of the Sovere gn in Ireland, he fit himself Friel le".e
from taking any part in the debate on the subject before the Ileube:
but he could not permit the statement of the Noble Marquis resPoeb7e -
ing the. Monaghan petition to pass tincantracticted. Tbee,l4e, be
Marquis had said the High sheriff was illegally appointed. NOW the
(the Earl of Mulgrave) begged to tell the Noble elarqu:s and
House that Mr. Kenny's appointment, to that office was perfectil le'
gal, and had been so pronounced by the judges on the circuit inePtehe
Court. But, putting the High Sheriff out of the question, di.
• Noble Marquis mean to say that the opinion of the grand jury, ase
!olodir.
viduals even, had no weight ? Why, one of them was the very
Coote who the Noble Marquis asserted should have stood in the place off
Mr. Kenny, as High Slleriff of the county.—(Hear, hear, and a. lausb.)
In regard to the 13111 before the House he (the Earl i f Mulgrave) coo
nr
not help expressing the highest degree of gratification at the Ole s„.
able, and impartial discussion which had been given it by
their M ;
ships in the debate of that night. An impression would be wade by
means on the people of Ireland which would have the effect of Co"io
ting their feelings to that House, because they had from it an assuravir'es
that their desatution would not be allowed to pass unnoticed or u
lieved; and that the property of the country would be made to coOtribn
ta
its fair quota to the support of the poor.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY explained.
Med
Lord BROUGHAM then said that the opinions he had entert2
on the subject before the House resumed, remained untouched by °ls
argument addressed to it. The Noble Marquis the President ofte
:
Council had designated the Bill "an experiment," and said that it : 1,,
" a doubtful, uncertain, and hazardsus messure." It was 014"
r
described it. Suppose thousands were perishing w.th hungal, "'hat'
bd
a,kt.ll their Lordships, could the Boards of Guardians do ? if they ea%
hearts in their bosoms, coil I they do otherwise than the relieving e"— g
in England had been obliged to do ? It was impossible, if they snot
no,
men, with the ordinary feelings which belonged to men, that they
under such cirsumstanses,.refuse relief. This would be the great la„li
chief of a measure like the present, fir it would tell the famishing people
two things. It would not only tell them that they need no longer be t;
want, that they could no longer perish with hunger, but that a Board W
for the fiist time established, uith power not only to relieve their distress,
lett to raise money from the rich landowners for tile. P. 11.4,50 if neces-
sary. That was what this measure would tell the famishing PenPle
Ireland, although, in point of fact, the relief intended to be given wet
to be restricted ; but for his own part he could not understand hf•";
this was to be done, or how either the Boards in Dublin or
Somerset House, any more than the Boards of Guardians, OIL,
prevent the giving of out-door relief. the g:-eat objection to :l"
measure Ives, nat it gave the same tight to relief to the able-bed se
as to the impotent; and if that principle were once admitted,
would defy them to deny relief to any one class of persons W%
were in distress more than another. He was convinced 'that thei
Bill would not on ybe a failure in itself, butt that it would cast c°c:..
Ireland discontent and disaffection ; and if revolt should ensue 070
Parliament was not sitting the Government would be compeller
give relief, and trust to a Bill of Indemnity to justify them ins.dniegibses-
They were all aware that the Irish poor separated from their wbit
and families for a vagrant life, until work became plenty, with °ated
terest sorrow; but, if that were their feeling, was-it not likely that "e
would prefer going into the workhouse to such a separation?
Noble Lord opposite said that the want in Ireland was not ernploYrae-se
but labourers to do the wolk, but, if this were true, all he conk. 7;
was, that it was contrary, not only to the Report of the Convsnisdfrerat'
but to all that he ever heard stated with respect to the corrlition 0'
country. His Noble Friend had said that this Bill hail a double oble;
—that it would enable men to wok and landlords to give them enT.l°D.
ment ; but he Lad omitted to say where the funds with which tb`e„ie
bourers were to be paid were to come from. It was clear that I,e,
Bill would establ;sh a system of outdoor relief, and that be
~ing:
case, his Noble Friend the President of the Council was, aecetweer
his own declaration, bound to give it up on that, as well as 011 "tb
grounds. The Scotch Poor-laws were, in reality, not different eoiss
those in Englanp. They were, however, differently ad cal
tered, for in Scotland they were placed in the hands of those who vser-s,
vie
terested in preventing abuse or relaxation, while in this country
contrary was the effect produced from the way in which they were n ts•
paged ; and yet what were they about to do for Ireland ? WlLY'tsie
place the management of the I'oor.laws intended fur that country' in 1M
hands of persons elm had not a shadow, a scintilla of interest in guarsh
ing them from abuse. Such was the state of things in Scotland Wese
Fletcher wrote, that he gave it as his opinion it would be better to sell
poorer classes to slavery than to continue them in their then P°'
well He feared that this opinion of Mr. Fletcher would apply equally ere-
the proposed introduction of such a Poor-law as the present in°
land.
After a few words of explanation from the Earl of MULGB'~VE
and
the Marquis of LONDONDERRY,
Viscount MELBOURNE shortly' explained. He did not pretend -et:.
know the state of Scotland at the period referred to in the work of fitilf
cher of Saltoun, but he apprehended that there must be aof
ference between the state of Scotland at that period and the stair.
ss
Ireland in the present day. He protested against the aelent'lwe: the
both imprVicable and unjust, and was determined to adhere
clause as it stood. Divide:"
The Earl of WINCHILSEA rose amidst loud cries of , ether he'
and asked of the Noble Lord at the head of the Government lied
.sth
had heard of the riots at Canterbury, in which an officer of thee eighteen'
been killed, and a Captain Montgomery wounded, and in 0'1" -
or twenty lives had been lost ? easier°
Viscount MELBOURNE-1 have not beard it; but I Un—
ursterealv
there is a messenger waiting for me. the
The House then divided. On returning to the Gallery we found
numbers to be—

For the amendment
Against it
Majority against the amendment —66
The House then adjourned at Twenty Minutes past One o'Clock.

ROUSE OP COMMONS, MAI :31.
Owing to there being ballots for Election Committees the Gallery
was not open till twenty minutes past Four.
NATIONAL LOAN FUND BILL.
Mr. HALL moved the second reading of the National Loan Fund
Assurance Company's Bill.
Mr. P. THOMSON said that he entertained very great objections t‘'
the Bill. He would, however, wait to hear what would be said ;‘);
Hon. Members for and against it ; but, as at present advised, he CO
not consent to the second reading of the Bill.
Mr. HALL said that the Bill was very short. By it, it WO
proposed to enable the National Loan Fund Assurance CoroP;1
to sue and be sued in the mme of their Chairman. The present
became necessary, because the powers of the Act of the Ist of Victo
li3
were a complete failure, and did not give those powers which Violc
Companies had a right to demand. The object of the present ny
was not to do away with any responsibility—it was not ins, a #
way to limit the responsibility of the Company ; but it
Bill to enable the parties to sue, and be sued in the name of their C,ll-0,
man. Such in substance, and in few words, was the nature of the'',
Under such circumstances he trusted the Right Ilonourable Gentl,7o',3lti
would allow it to be read a second time. If he did so, and if it ''
be his intention, as he apprehended it was, to make any Pr°P°s„jolle
upon the subject, he would postpone the Committee till such tin
as would be convenient for the Govermnent to do so. ,
Mr. I'. TEIOMSON could not think that the only object of the
was to enable the parties to sue anti be sued in the name of their Chain':
j'is,
If that were the only object of the Bill, they might have obtained
power tinder the Ist of Victoria, and there would have been lie
necessity for coming to that House. The objects of the Bill
lrh
very extended indeed—much more than the Honourable Ge:rt,,t,
man seemed to think—and it went to carry into effect very dig"'
gm,
purposes, far beyond what the title of the Bill would lead
to expect. That, however, was not the only objection lie had t°
the
Bill being read a second time. It went too far, as it gave the ("7"eactit'
grcsater, powers than they could obtain under the Ist of Victoria; its I,•t
are to enable the Company to sue and be sued in the name of the Clusirli'vacta
only. Under the let o• Victoria no st:ch power can be given under:3o..
circuinstances, and, therefore, the present Bill was brought fercup.
He did not mean to say that such powers should be given to Ile ht
0,,,e
pany ; but what he said was, that if they were given to one they ons
be given to all, and by a general law upon the subject. VPO"
01,:e•
grounds he should feel it his duty to oppose the Bill, if his Hon° e ltv
Friend pressed it. He might state that he had a nicas,u,r-ring:
preparation, which he trusted he would be enabled to introduce -,,-,„s#
the present Session, which would enable the Crown to grant stud] l'7oouit
as ,lo,se sought hy the Bill before the House. The whole'subject w.osa
then be before Parliament—the whole subject would be discussed
full and proper manner—and the House would then be able to acid'
tisfactorily.
esdl
Mr. O'CONNELL--Sir, I hope this Bill will be allowed CO --,,,r01.0
a second time. The Act to which the Right Honourable Gent-dot
alludes has failed ; and he is so conscious of its failure, se
he has actually a Bill in preparation to bring before the title
for that purpose. It is the most reasonable thing in
0,0
world that these parties, like Joint Stock Companies, ,
IIL
have remedies as between themselves and the public. Now this
goes no fin titer than this--to enable the parties to sue and be sued t)' 000
,
public offleet—to enable theta to maintain various actions against
partnels in the Company—, nd against parties for iniscond°--„,4
jo.
various kinds, which letters latent would not enable the parties.
asp
So far from pressing the House to this as a particular rneas'iret, thG
quite content on the part of this Company to have it understo'ad
ttet
Bill be allowed to be now read a second time, and that the Coin°,4ll
shall stand over till it is ascertained whether the Government ti,c•
carry their Bill through the House. The Governntent, 11, 01 ;'
Right Hon. Gentleman, has given consent to these lirnvi%°rtiefj
but if the Government will not bring in a Bill, why should the lest ~st
be prevented from having that which the Government admit ; the
necessary for the management of Joint Stock concerns? I b°,l), eX-
Government will allow this Bill to be read a second time, on tit
rent"
press understanding that it abides the event of the G°v,e,-,ilet.lo'
Bill —(Cries of " Hear, hear.") I need not refer to the Pa-i tlae
in which the Act of Victoria is defective. Indeed, iL
and it
opinion of many eminent lawyers that it is grossly defecti'e 3 that
Je letters patent for any available purpose have been taken out r
statute.

Mr. P. THOMSON we undetood, there
Mr. O'CONNELL ,
Is say fir avrsailablesaid purposes. had. I
'Ann"' ;
stance, certainly, in which letters patent were taken out, a second ran>
but the parties have found that they have taken thee:, out svitliet4l doni.
one solid advantage. This Bill remedies these hico'nveniencer, 8" "re-'
no more. It does not lessen the responsibility of any individual
,05-
holder ; on the contrary, it authorizes execu'aon against any ene 11,,,jb-
ber for the full amount of the demand—it facilitates the suit of the `„ey
sic against the Company—it gives them
advantages if Ili y owe be
to recover money—and it enables the Company
to sue individuate w '
rds
should either owe money, or who should misconduct themsebv towawej
the Company. Under these circumstances I ho-
pe the Bill will ba
to be read a second time, upon the understanding that it shall n
Me
ot
g
proceeded with, the moment the Government Bill is br,-iught in. fnilr
Mr. HUME said—Any man who has attended to the objects of this
cannot but perceive that it airords many important advantages to e'L
and lower classes. In its
w proceedings difficulties have iris
middling
as to the redress hich individuals joining in the Company shall li'
against each other. The question is, this difficulty beLnlr dis
cot
covered, what remedy is to be affisrded—will the Governinto
bring in such a remedy ?—(lrear, hear.) If so, I will object t°
,c,dy
Bill or any other, if the Governmoat will bring in a Bill to renwho
these general evils complained ot: But if the Right Hon. Gentleman
admits the evils will not agree to bring in such a Bill thin. Session, ‘`..
should he stop this Bill, which is designed for those acknowledged '.l
avowed evils which the Company had found in its procee.i.itigs.—CHe3%
a Bill this
I therefore ask whether the Government will bring in. such
Session j'_ (Heat.)
tlSir J. GRAHAM said—l am g lad this subjectfor it merits the immediate attention of the Govurnment.—(lle It A. been mentioned.:
I have been told that in winding up the concerns of the Northern 3;0
Central Joint Stock Bank it has been found that thereinetlyagainst part"
oc,
is either most expensive or wholly impossible, and that the winding I:tpa.n.
this concern has been (nearly) wholly suspended, from the present "
enit:
of the law twat) this subject. As I understand the Hon. and Learned
her for Dublin, his proposition Is, "if there is no general measure
brought in to remedy the evils complained of, we will bring in a particular
measure in this case ; but if the Government will undertake to bring ut
a general measure upon this subject, then we will not ask for the fnr) wan,
progress of this Bill till we see what this measure is." Now, .1

--- ------
_. bound to say it appears to be—tiiiiil I hear some arguments to the cnn-
trary—_, very fair proposal—(Hear, hear)---and Ido not see why this Bill
should not be read a second time—that will -be a guarantee to the
Reuse that this important subject will be entered Lyon by the Govern-
, luent•—(Hear, hear.)
• Mr. P. THOMSON—If itis the wish of the House that this Bill should
be read a second time,upon the understanding that it shall not bepersevered
in supposing I bring in a general Bill upon this subject, so as to render this
.Bill unnecessary, I am willing to assent to that proposal.—(Hear, hear.)
, . At the same time the language of the Right Hon. Gentleman renders it
necessary that I should say a word in explanation.—)Hear, hear,
hear.)
He intimated, and properly, the diffic ilty which exists
as to individuals recovering against partners in Joint Stock Companies
at common law, and the great expense of a process in equity, so as to
,render it almost impossible; but that is a separate question from that
- ' now before the House.—(Hear, hear.) Ido not think I am bound
Ilk
'.'()%v to pledge myself as to any alteration of the law upon the sub-
Pet of Joint Stock Banks, although I am willing to admit that
the subject presses for the decision of the Government, and is one upon
or
which a remedy ought to be brought forward during the present session.
Rut the question raised by this Bill is quite a different one—whether
.`l'arliament will provide an amendment to the Ist of Victoria, passed
Ok.
last Year, that power should be given to the Crown to enable
the Partners of a Company to sue their pat tners that is
lilt What I propose to effect; and then it is doubtful whether it will be ad-
iseable to allow this Bill to proceed, because it will entail expense, for
, I shall still object to the Bill going on if my Bill passes, since I shall
then see whether the Crown has that power. However, I shall not object
to the Bill being read a second time, on the understanding of the Bill
got proceeding, provided the Crown has that power.
Sir EDWARD SUGDEN—I do not see why this Company
101
tshould have higher powers than other Companies possess. It was
i rUe that it was inconvenient that parties could not sue each
Other, but that arose from the nature of the property. He should say
that a
he general measure, unless protected by minute enactm fists, would
Most injurious. He would not, however, say that that might not be
leached by legislative enactments.
1 the rr. O'CONNELL—Then we are to take the second reading upon
coaditions that have been pointed cut.
I The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be committed.
, MA IDSTONE ELECTION.
The Clerk of the Election Committees appeared at the Bar with the
reduced list of the Members balloted for to try the merits of the petition
against the return for the borough of Maidstone. The following were
the names of the Committee—Lord Ernest Bruce, William Villiers
Stuart • Francis Bernard Beamish, Sir Charles Leman, John rower, Earl,
Jerroyn,
1
Charles Frederick Ashby Cooper.Ponsonby, Sir Charles Brooke
, Vere, Rig
ht Hon. Sir John Cam Flobliouse, John Easthope, and Henry
Is Thomas.
!" On the motion of Mr. PR OTIIEROE, the Deanhead (Huddersfield)
Reservoir Bill was read a third time and passed.
Mr. W. ATTWOOD presented a petition from certain persons,
i I'raying to be heard by Counsel against the Ramsgate Improvement Bill.
. On the motion of Mr. EASTHOI'E, the Leicester Gas Bill was read
.. a third time and passed.
i: Colonel DAVIES postponed until this day fortnight his motion for
r a Select Committee to take into consideration the most eligible site for
l, the two Houses of Parliament.
I,] • FEMALE APPRENTICESHIP IN THE COLONIES.
ii Mr. O'CONNELL gave notice that he should on that day forting lit
1 move for leave to bring in a Bill to terminate the apprenticeship of all
fetnales in the Colonies.—(Hear, hear.)
The Lough Foyle, and Lough Swilly Drainage Bill, was real a third
!, and passed.

REGISTRATION OF ELECTORS BILL.
Captain WOOD enquired of the Attorney-General when the Govern-
Merit intended to finish the Registration of the Electors Bill ?
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said the Government were desirous
baying it carried into a law as' soon as possible, and he believed no
d had occurred on the part of the other House of Parliament.

DEANS AND CHAPTERS.
11.ri GLADSTONE presented a petition from the Dean and Chapter
or the Cathedral Church of Canterbury, praying that Lord John Rus.
lithe
Bill relative to Deans and Chapters might not pass into a law.
Ur. FRESHFIELD presented a petition from Truro, pray ing for a
reduction in the rate of postage.
•Sir W, W. WYNN then rose to bring forward the motion of
which he had given notice, for an address to the 9,ueen to be-
'r
be."' Premotion on the three late Chaplains of the House, in compliance
the address of the HMlse presented to his late Majesty King Wil.
•la'n IV- lie regretted that lie was obliged to bring the motion forward
the _
absence of the Noble Lord at the head of the Home Department,
bibut having waited for half an hour after the usual time for the corn-
, 'neetnent of public business, he thought it would be disrespectful
Zitthe House not to bring it forward.--(Hear, hear, hear) He
no difficulty whatever in bringing forward this motion, ncr in
was, his reasons for so doing. The difficulty which he experienced
"5,, how it could be resisted. He did not know how the House could,
!°nsistently with its own howler and the uniform practice of Parlia.
Merit for above a century, hesitate to vote an address to her Majesty in
faVo•,
the rof the three gentlemen who last discharged the office of Chaplain to
and House, which three suecessive Parliaments had voted in their favour,
in answer to which his late Majesty had assured the House he would
!,?lifer some distinction upon them.—(Lord John Russell here entered
ie House.)—No remuneration of any kind was given by this House to
01e who discharged this duty. The uniform reward was voting such
Ii address as the present to the Crown, and the Crown bestowing some
°motion. For upwards of a century this had been the custom. No
IPterfic length of services was required. Before the passing of the Sep-
Minial Parliament Bill two years and a half was the length of service
'Relent; but after that Act the Chaplain was appointed by the Speakers
•'r each Parliament, without reference to the length of its duration. In
the Year 1782 one Chaplain received this usual promotion after only one
'flonth's service. In 1770, another, who had officiated only four months,
was recommended by the House to the Crown, and received promotion
f;`°ol the Crown. Other instances of later date could be adduced to prove
that duration of service was i.ot taken into account in these addresses;
but he (atr. Wynn) could not suppose that any objection of that sort
Would be mane to tits motion. Then these gentlemen had accepted the
"Mee of chaplain on the supposition that they would receive the usual
tteinuneration. On the faith of that House and its uniform usages they
"ad given up lucrative situations the more efficiently to fulfil their duties,
and they were now left for five years without reward. It was n)t con-
i'''tstit with justice to treat those gentlemen's claims upon en ex post
-Ita rule, made after they lied received their appointment, after they
f.• 41 discharged their duty—after that House had addressed the Crown
for
the promotion—and after the Crown had promised to confer it.
.1 Lord JOHN RUSSELL thought this a question exclusivity for the
e °use of Commons to decide. But the Right Honourable Geutleman
"ad not stated with sufficient distinctness the situation of the Chaplain
!h the
House, and the difficulty of the present case. It was anciently
ue Practice of the House that the Chaplains appointed by the Speaker
should receive dignities from the hands of the Crown. At that time the
Patr
"
age of the Crown was very', extensive, and the services of the
Chaplains of considerable duration.—(" About three years," from Mr.
IVY: °II) There was now a great alteration both with respect to the dig-
r„,r.`,o`.e., and the practice of the House. The Church dignities of the
ti Gown, instead of being left as formerly, were now, in accordance with
the recommendation of the Ecclesiastical Commissioners, for the present
suspended, with the view of great reduction. The reduction as regarded
'ecclesiastical patronage, if the reforms contemplated were carried into
:et, would be not less than 50,000/. a-year—not patronage accru.
S
every Year, but enjoyed by the dignities of the Church surren.
dared
to the Crown. A reduction was also made as regarded
she Chaplains of that House, and a sum of not more than
u)nli a-year was given them for the performance of their du
sees' instead of the promotion as formerly. So an agreement
as Made and acted upon, he would not say with the definite
,lariction of Parliament, that an alteration should be made in the amount
u. Prebends and dignities of the Church, and in the remuneration of
4,Zehaplains of the House. The Right Hon. Gentleman instanced the
'Pt of promotion by one genleman after a service of one month, and
else
after four months ; but this was rather an argument in favour
es._ teillaugein the practice.— (Hear, hear ) The nomination of one of
attd
resesent chaplains, the Rev. Mr. Lockwood, took lace in 1830,
st.
~the address took place in the following year. The address in favour
h the second, the Rev. Mr. Budkin, took place in 1832, and that for the
ohv Mr. Frere in 1833, showing that their services were not of a very
.se,,l'in•lod. But after these addresses had been voted in 1831, 1832,
833, promotions had taken place both under the Governments
41eord Grey and the Right Hon. the Member for Tamworth, in
~ Leh Persons not chaplains of the House had been recommended by an
;erea„,
eof the undoubted right of the Minister to the Crown. The
i
Hon. Gentleman not only acted similarly to Lord Crey—he not
-4,Y advised the Crown to confer the Prebendary of Westminster upon
eeiAtilintn—but he addressed a letter to the Church Commissioners,
telleg that he had so advised the Crown for the promotion of the
'•;11 benefit of the Church. That letter had been acted on by Lord
ethourne and the present Government ; and if it were to be taken as
tirsU,sletile question came to this, whether they would, the patronage of
I)'e-'r°Avn being reduced to the great amount mentioned, and having
retiterl Previously so much lessened, again curtail it by giving the House
o°r4'rnons the power of recommending three persons in the course of
rea„„seven years to its promotion ? He thought this would be an un-
10,Cable reduction, taken together with whet the Crown had already
whet,. It anPeared to him that the question before the House was
Niniier the addresses should be complied with, and the sums derived
aehicithe contemplated reduction be taken from religious instruction, to
',it was intended to devote it, or that some better provision should
eqi..aue in any other way for those clergymen. The question was one
sik`telY for the decision of the House, and it was not for the Govern-
s. t° °PPose any decision to which the House might come.
beset'. It. PEEL said the Noble Lord stated that since these addresses Lad
.diff"ervoted to his late Majesty the House of Commons had adopted a
4iatrog't system in regard to the reward of its Chaplains, and that the
e,„ nage of the Crown had been much curtailed. If the House of
te;°°nt had adopted a new mode, and then had appointed a
11, Chaplain, it would be but just to reward bins according to
feat nseLwrule ; but that the circumstance of a new rule should de.
ses 'le claims of a Chaplain appointed previously to the new rule
th:ld 4fe decidedly unjust. It was unfortunate that some years since
ts,,,erowre had not come to some understanding with the House of
on' this subject, for it was unreasonable that the House of
testa °fla should have a claim on the patronage of the Crown, par-
lßes;',l,Y When feequent dissolutions took place, as did between 182.9 and
liefo•' 'or its Chapleine serving only so short a time. , Therefore, it was
lei!, 'innate that seven or efolit years ago it was not laid ,town that no Chap-
riso,l4less after a service of at least five years, should be entitled to pro-
t4efo°,4* That course was not however adopted. They had adhered to
fate,,,ltiler course. The House of Commons had appealed to the Crown. in
its h' °f its Chaplains, and the Crown had returned an answer, pledging
licle :Tat word of compliance.—(Hear, hear.) He thought this con-
"ifthr,;,"l Of ne bearing; and then he would ask was not the good faith
1,-;.rose of Commons and the Crown pledged ?—(Hear, hear, hear.)
feisi:"'' not be said that this was not a claim founded on that good
"R h The Noble Lord had said when Ise (Sir Robert Peel) was in
f -e had not acted upon these claims. He (Sir Robert Peel) had
th%441 that his predecessors had not acted upon them, and that those
ih ClMPlains were unprovided for by them. During his continuance
le: -",see °My one Prebend, that of Westminster, fell vacant. Be en.
esel'Ured
h *-0 fill it up, having respect to the double claim of the Crown
ell
nod
Rous.e, It was first offered to one of those gentlemen, who de-
vori,,Tlt, then anether, who likewise declined it, and time pressing, in
wasnTaep. cri given as row aeof toheaCtiVe: measures of the Noble Lord—(Laughter)—it
~*(1 to a gentleman of great distinction, the
a,
Nelsk '•r• Allman..—(Cheering.) Then the authority quoted by the
000,:i Lord
went the other way, as he ;Sir Robert Peel) did not post.
the hcle claims of religious duties, but ende.:voured to take into account
othe 'uble duty. However, thoseclaims shout.: be satisfied one way or
he sricCheers.) The faith of the House was eng.:,ged, and therefore
vote for the motion.
kilaer few words from the Chancellor of the Excheos.er, Sir E.
L oredenll, Mr. Wynn, and Sir Robert Inglis,
talat ,s; RUSSELL again expressed his concurrence in the address,
het. soed to intimate a fact which no one knew better than the Right
01 the
41't elvslensan—namely, that acquiescence was not imperative on the
Sir R Crowe.
"tie • PEEL said that the proposed substitute might be good in
I 'Ple Rly shabby.
' but he thought the amount of remuneration proposed exceed-
trlotio,, had been agreed to without a division.
Lord INQE NAVAL ARCHITECTURE.
nts see„ STR IE begged the attention of the Hettse for a few mo
Il°llaesee be made a few observations on a subject of very great im.
torea maritime country like this. He meant its naval architee-
p to
was Divot
, much to be regretted that it had hitherto been so much
•!'"lllees • The Commissioners of 1806 in their Report, regretted this
Irlthe'cli,l., lie was i
afraid, also: he must accuse' Government of partiality
t,e
ar, lbu ion of appointments n the Royal Dockyards.—
a„hear.) As a proof of this he would mntion
(1,44 :;:ayttisfthe master shipwright in Pembroke dockyard, who in he year
b: oilmmon draughtsman at five Adding', a.day, but who now
-ttaieriients) en
wasle ipointed ovr the hea of udents of the
Magter shipwright ds
several students
pwright in the yard. He would nexthighest allude