The Sun.
London, England, 1838-02-14 00:00:00

hate felt it his duty to give that motion a negative. He con-
sidered the offence of which they had been speaking to be of
grestsr enormity than almost any other of which a man could
be guilty. It was the especial duty of the Government to take
steps to prevent combinations from advancing to conspiracy.
There was scarcely a crime that could be mentioned that did
not result from combination. The evidence before them
showed that it led to breaking into houses, to alarming people
to a very great degree, and to actual murder. it was true
the murder was not proved against the party charged with it,
but too one could doubt its having taken place. -- (FL ar.)
Then look at the enormous sum expended in three illegal
Tursuits—not less than 11,000/. And how was it expended ?
It appeared that while the influential workmen who struck
gold maintain themselves, the inferior workmen had no means
of supporting themselves while the struggle was proceeding.
It was a fact that nothing could be more destructive to the
Prosperity of the community at large than this combination.
He denied that there was the least want of sympathy on the
Part of the House for the distresses of the lower orders; on
the contrary, they evinced the interest they felt in them by the
very course !deer: in the debee. There was no tyranny so
treat, so overbearing, or so relentlces in its murderous pur-
ls nes, as that which they were now considering.—(Cheers.)
Mr. O'CONNELL said he, as well as the Learned Gen-
tleman who bad just sat down, had read the evidence with
great attention, and felt that it gave them no right to im-
peach the conduct of either the bench, the jury, cr the pro-
secution. He thought bis Hon. Friend was right in not
pressing his motion for a'mitigation of punishment. He did not
see that there was any fiir ground stated for an inquiry into
the Glasgow case in particular ; but if the system which had
been so properly denounced prevailed more extensively—if
combinations, not only illegal, but despotic and tyrannical,
existed in any part of the empire, it was the duty of the House
to give protection to the labourer, so as to enable him to dis-
Pose of his labour freely. Ile believed that no laws could have
been more unjust than the combination laws were before they
had been repealed by Mr. Hume's Act. Two persons meeting
together to raise to its highest price any commodity, if it were
not for labour, might so combine; but the moment they met
to raise the price of labour, they were considered to be guilty
of ft crime in the eye of the law. It was true that employers
might also be found guilty of a crime, but then it was almost im-
possible to detect them, and they were also protected by their
wealth ; but the poor man was easily detected and punished. He
hod felt it to be his duty, and he felt it to be a most painful
one, to take an active part in this matter, and this at the
risk of it great deal of his popularity.—( Cheers.) He had in
doing so of course been misrepresented ; and he availed him-
self of the opportunity of stating what his objects were. He
was quite content with Mr. Hume's Act, and was extremely
anxious that the labouring classes should have the full be-
nefit of it. It repealed an unjust law ; and he did not
wish for any more law, certainly, than was to be found in
Mr. Hume's Act.—(Laughter.) He called it Mr. Hume's
Act._-( Hear, hear.) He did believe that whenever the
country lost that Honourable Gentleman—and he conceived
that whenever it did happen it would be a great loss—but that
none more honourable inscription could be on his tomb than
that he was the person that :brought in that Act of Parlia-
ment._(Hear, hear.) That at least was his belief. That
Act stated what it was that was permitted tobe done in future.
It allowed combination to every class of workmen. They
could combine and agree together to obtain more wages
than they had before, or to prevent their wages from being
lowered. It was fair for them to combine for such purposes.
This they could do for themselves; but the moment they
attempted to coerce others, the moment that they carried
the effect of their combination to any other individuals, that
instant crime commenced, and they were not only guilty of a
crime in the eye of the law, but also of a moral crime, and
they inflicted a robbery upon others.—( Hear, hear.) The
Honourable Member for Finsbury seemed to think that the
sentence which had been passed was contradictory to the
Act of Parliament ; for baring read those particulars which
Were not included within legal combination, the Honourable
Member said that the punishment for any of those offences
Was only three months' imprisonment. The Honourable
Member had not read the Act with the eye of a lawyer. The
crimes were made so punishable by a summary process by
the 7th section; but the Legislature, in allowing a sum-
mary process before Magistrates, only limited the punish-
ment to persons "being convicted thereof in the manner
hereinafter mentioned." Where there were no Judge and
no Jury to decide, and where the summary process was
Permitted, the punishment was not to exceed three months'
imprisonment. But where there was an indictment for a
conspiracy, then the case would be tried before a Judge and
Jury, both in England and Ireland ; and if a conviction
took place, a much longer punishment could be inflicted;
and: as it seemed in Scotland, even transportation could be
imposed. There was, then, no violation of the Act on the
conviction that bad taken place. The object of the Act was
to secure individual freedom. The very recital of the Act
showed that it was intended upon the one hand to make com-
bination perfectly legal, and upon the other to punish the in-
fringement upon the rights of third persons. The Act had
been called the Great Charter of the workmen of this country,
and it was so.—( Hear, hear.) That charter distinctly re-
cognised the right of each individual to his liberty, and the
law protected that individual in the exercise of his labour.
The efforts made by combinatora to raise their wages when
Confinedi to themselves were legitimate, and as long as they
'kept within the bounds of the law they ought not to be dis-
turbed but it appeared that they had forgotten the maxims
Ws"'Which they ought to act. They were not entitled to
ages out of capital ; ;they were only entitled to them out of
)rofits, and if their employers made no profits the wages must
decrease. Wages, which were the price of labour, must de-
Pend upon the demand ; and when the supply was greater
;"ao the demand, the price of labour of course must be
Lowered. This was the condition of Ireland ; there was a
great supply of labour, and a small demand for it. Labour
was in such quantities that labourers were ready to accept
the small wages of sixpence a day. Labour there was so
Cheap because there was no demand for it. The question,
then, in Ireland was, how was the demand to be created ?
There was but one way of creating the demand. It was only
to be created by tempting capitalists to the country, in order
that having cheap labour they might have profits from it. The
Misfortune of Ireland was, that tradesmen, impatient of their
Present state of suffering, did not wait for a gradual and pro-
gressive improvement, but they endeavoured by monopoly to
supply that which ought to arise from the competition of em-
PLoSers._( Hear.) The workmen of the City of Dublin (for
"is attention was directed to Ireland) sought a remedy in mo-
nopoly. They had endeavoured to narrow the supply, in
order that the demand might be kept up, and the amount of
the Wages preserved. The demand did not equal the quantity
' labour iu the market. The combination had for its object
'ls
to close the market of labour; it sought to force persons from
entering into a competition in the market of labour, and to
raise the wages by diminishing the supply. The monopoly
t"' almost complete in Dublin. There was nothing to equal
the regulations and the arrangements for keeping up that
rutillopoly. The Right Honourable Gentleman had well
said that there was no tyranny equal to that which was
e"ereised by such persons over their fellow-labourers who en-
deavoured to carry their own labonr into the market. He
had wished to shew those persons the folly of their course, as
svell as its illegality and wickedness. He had wished to strew
theist the evils and the defects of their monopoly. He had in-
terviews for hour after hour with the deputation of different
tradesee, and he must say that he had never met with men of
more ability, seldom with men of more information, and never
With men of more talent in putting their views of their own
ease; but instead of discussing individual cases he had wished
for
a public discussion. He had sought for, lie had challenged
Public discussion. The authorities of the city of Dublin had
sanctioned it ; he had made two efforts at discussion ; the em-
Players all attended for the purpose of discussion ; they were
ready to discuss the subject, and to show how injurious the
monopoly was to the tradesmen themselves. These attempts
Were vain ; for the workmen, by an organized arrangement, over-
Powered the employers, the authorities, and himself. They
refused to hear him; they would not listen to him, as they
,a,cknowledged ; they did not deny the violation of the law, and
re, expressed their determination to persevere in it. They
had objected to the discussion—they refused it. He had at
least done hie duty, and the fault was not his; the crime was
theirs, and if punishment followed from it they must blame
themselves for Hear, hear.) He had stated that there
Was combination in Dublin, the workmen were associated in
regular bodies, and he had new to show the effects of that
combination. The plan they adopted was this ;—lt consisted
of several parts ; first, there was a large sum charged for ad-
reission into the regular bodies, The object of this wee to
Mahe the monopoly as close as possible, The next was to
limit, as much as possible, the number of apprentices. His
Hon. Friend had talked of his being an enemy to the limiting
,1_
Lumber of apprentices. The law said there should be no
'bit to the number of apprentices. The tradesmen said if they
aid not limit the number of apprentices, the avarice of the
;casters would induce them, for the purpose of receiving
fee, to take a great number of them, and thus to overeto
the ele
trade. He wanted to know if there were not in the nature
of things a remedy for this. The masters took, it was said,
the
apprentices for the sake of the fee. Surely it was the
Wage
and the wish of the parent to take care of his child.
"a
-s not the guardianship of the parent a good and sufficient
Ih°rnetly for any such case? Surely the father would not
Ow away Isis money and the time of his child by. sending
he to a trade likely to be overstocked. Surely this would
much better than any regulations of trade. Surely, if any
tonve being had a regard for anything, it must be for his
ii.n°fleY and his child ; and yet the legislators of the trade said
t
Was necessary for them to have the guardianship of grown-
U?t Parents over their own children, and to prevent them
iTh'ing away their money. The next regulation was to
Compel
workmen not to work under a minimum rate of wages.
Profits
were so high that no en ployer could Imo sufficient
,"fits to enable him to give any man more than a reinimura
rate of the wages. They prescribed a minimum rate of wages,
stvo that the best workman could not receive more than the
r,(wlt• This was one of the rigid and iron rulee of the car-
ers, that no man was to receive less than 4s. Bd. a day;
4`.ile uneducated labour was not paid more than sixpence a
th. Y. The carpenters insisted upon having 4s. Bd. a day, and
zjY took sway the funds for paying the skilful workmen, who
Iglit and oht to be paid tit ice as much as the unskilful
p:l'krnen. Many men could earn mall Mole than others, and
tbe employers would be glad to give higher wages, but that
1,,e1 were conspellud to give high wages to the weeet. men.
"e next rule was, not to leave the ehoice of workmen to
71410 e-ere. In the body each pereon'e name wee put down
n ff certain order in a book, scud if an employer wanted a
work
rflabs lie had to take that person 'stein name was the first
pn •; t le order of the book; and if the employer eftlesed that
Poison lie could not get any other workman.—( Hear. That
gas the tyranny bear.) The ems
• exercised over him.—(llcer,
gote_r_:ito be sure, might turn away that man, but then Itsi must
eka back to the book and get another. The carpenters 04V-
. Cut, t to this extent, that no man eeseld take less wages them
Settled by them, even if turned away as 444*.VUli if the

same man was turned away a second time as unskilful, he
should receive the same rate of wages. If the same man was
then turned away, and a third employer objected to give him
the same rate of waves, he should do so at the risk of having
hfs business stopped. Then, if turned away a third time as
unskilful, there was a jury, consisting of Circe of his comrades,
to decide upon the complaint of his unskilfulness ; and if he
was found not to be a skilful man, then " the indulgence" was
allowed to him of taking a less rate of wages. The rules of
the carpenters illustrated the system of combination in Dub-
lin, and if the House would indulge him, he should read
some of their rules.—( Hear.) The first rule was this :____
" That every person from the country, not having worked
more than one month in the city of Dublin, or within ten miles
thereof, being desirous of becoming a member of this commu-
nity, shall be admitted on paying the sum of seven guineas ;
and ten guineas to be the admission of colts, each person pay-
ing half the sum at first payment." The sixth rule is this :
" That no carpenter employer be allowed to take or hold more
than three apprentices at any time—that is, two indented and
one transferred, or two transferred and one indented; the
transferred boy or boys must be in all cases those who were
originally bound to regular employers or regular operwives.
No firm to take advantage of this rule, as there are no more
apprentices allowed to any firm, than there are to any single or
individual employer." Ile believed that a more glaring, or
more daring violation of law than this had never been heard
of.—( Hear, hear.) He could show the Right Hon. Gentle.
maa opposite, that the effect of such regulations had been to
lessen the number of employers. There was another rule
(the 17th) which precluded ally member from giving a de-
tailed return for any work, except for jobbing. Su that an em-
ployer could not have a detail of the day's work from one of
his men. He now turned to the twenty-sixth rule: —" That
any member of this community, on proof of his being dis-
charged from three different:employments for inability, to be
proved by throe of his shopmates, one from each employment,
men of known integrity, may get indulgence for what wages
the committee and his shopmates may think him worthy of."
Now, who, he asked, having capital, would not dispose of it
as soon as he could, rather than submit to this dictation
( Hear, hear.) What had occurred since this species of com-
bination had commenced? The cotton-printing had been
established in Belfast : it had since been transferred to Dub-

lin by Mr. Henry, The cotton-printing was carried on in
Belfast by Mr. Grimshaw ; and the combination bad reached
to such an extent in two years, that the proprietor would not
be allowed to pay higher wages to one man than to another.
The proprietor had 107 persons in his employment. He
stopped his manufacture for some short time; the workpeople
would not r,lent ; the proprietor eventually abandoned the
business, and that number of persons were thrown out
of employment.—( Hear, hear.) In Bandon an extensive
manufactory was established; the proprietor obtained a
large contract. He bought machinery, the workmen waited
until he had erected the machinery, and they then turned
out for higher wages—they said to him, We know
that you have got a contract in Spain and in Portugal, and
you must therefore give 138 higher wages." The proprietor
worked out the quantity which he was by writing bound to
supply, and then abandoned the manufactory. The conse-
quence was, that there was lost to Bandon ever since wages
to the amount of from 10,0001. to 12,0001. a year.—( Hear.)
What was the consequence of the proceedings of the trades
men of Dublin Why, that wages to the amount of 500,0001.
a year was driven out of Dublin. Give him inquiry, and he
had witnesses ready to prove this fact. Not only was this
the fact, but portable articles were brought ready made into
Dublin, to an extent that would be actually ludicrous if it
were not horrible. In the foundry trade alone, he would be
able to prove to demonstration that 10,0001. a.year in wages
was lost to Dublin. Mr. Classon, a most respectable gentle-
man connected with that business, stated this at a public
meeting. Another gentleman, a manufacturer in the same

line, of the name of-Sheridan, made a statement at a paro-
chial meeting in Dublin, which if the House would permit
him, he would read. After stating a few facts relating to the
Eagle Foundry, Mr. Sheridan went on to state, that in conse-
quence of the rules and regulations of the tradesmen in his em-
ploy, they were completely his masters, and he was obliged to
bow to them in every respect ; that business was driven out of
the country every day, in consequence of the manufacturers
being prohibited from employing, boys, and other rules of a
similarly restrictive nature, and the consequence was that
Dublin lost the advantage of having many articles manu-
factured in it. In order further to show the degree of ty-
ranny that was exercised over the employers, Mr. Sheridan
stated a particular instance in which an industrious man who had
been long in his employment, and who had given great satis-
faction, on being asked if he wished to have anything done
for him, replied that he had a boy, his son, who could
read and write, and that he would be obliged to his em-
ployers if they would take him as an apprentice. Mr.
Sheridan agreed to take the boy as his apprentice, but his
workmen immediately turned out, and he was obliged to turn
off the boy.—(Hear, hear.) The combination of tailors in
Dublin had raised the price of clothes so high, that young
men found it worth their while to go to Glasgow and stop
a couple of days there to get their clothes,7,and they actually
paid the entire expenses of this trip by the saving in a single
suit of clothes.—(A laugh.) This was ludicrous enough, but
it was true. There were a number of other instances of this
kind, and the result was that business of this description had
totally left Dublin. No business would better illustrate this
subject than that of ship-building. He remembered that
there were at one time in Dublin four principal ship-builders ;
there were a number of ships built there, and docks existed,
which were very convenient for that purpose. There was not
a single ship-builder there at present, and not a single ship
was built there. There were nothing but boats built ; and
when any vessel put into Dublin in need of repair, it was
merely cobbled up, so as to insure its safety across the Chan-
nel, or to Belfast or Drogheda. Thus was the trade of
Dublin annihilated. The employers were prevented from
taking apprentices, and from employing any but the regular
men; and ono man, who worked in opposition to the regula-
tions of the combinators, on coming into Dublin across the
canal bridge, was, in the presence of upwards of twenty
persons, assassinated. One of the consequences was that
ship•building was totally driven out of Dublin; and not-
withstanding the failure of trade, when on a late oc-
casion Mr. Fagan had txo boats built on a new principle,
and finding them useful gave an order for ten more,
the moment he did so the workmen turned out, and prevented
him from building them in Dublin. The contract was taken
to Belfast and executed there, and the very timber to make
the boats was conveyed from Dublin to Belfast. Since the
passing of the Combination Law four murders bad occurred
in Dublin, and though the tradesmen did not with their
own hands commit these murders, yet they paid three shil-
lings a week out of their wages for the hire of these as-
sassins. This he was fully able to prove. He had as-
serted it in the presence of the parties themselves, and
though certain persons said that they bad nothing to do
with it, yet no one denied the existence of the fact.
These men, then, who paid the murderers, did not indi-
vidually commit the crimes themselves, but they contri-
buted, by payment, to the commission of crimes from
which individually they would shrink. In Cork, within
the last two or three years, no less than thirtpseven persons
had been burnt with vitriol so as to lose their eyes, while in
Dublin four murders had been committed before the repeal
of the Combination Law, and three more recently. There
were dully outrages; and who, he would ask, committed
those outrages I It was well known that they were com-
mitted by a body of men called Welters. It would be very
hard to get legal evidence against these men. There bad
been so little sympathy in Ireland between the governed and
governors for many years, that no man who came forward in
aid of a Government prosecution would feel himself safe. It
was therefore difficult to get legal evidence; but there was
abundant to satisfy any man of the number and nature of the
crimes of these :men.—( Hear.) There was not a day but
some crime was committed. On Thursday last the house of
a timber-merchant was set on fire, after he had received
twenty-two notices. Thus, though the tradesmen them-
selves did not actually commit murder, they were enabled,
by means of these Welters, who were ready to commit
any crime to controul their employers. About a fortnight
before he (Mr. O'Connell) left Dublin, he was informed by a
manufacturer that a man and his wife in his employment
had died of the cholera, leering two orphan children. The
master agreed to take these orphans as apprentices without
any fee, and to support them during their apprenticeship ;
but his men turned out, and obliged him to discard the two
orphans. So terrible was the power of the Welters, that this
gentleman did not care to resist their mandates. If the House
would allow him, he would road Iwo uses that had occurred
wishin stlie last two months before the Courta in Dublin,
They would give a better idea than anything lie could say
of the extent of the power of the system instituted by those
men. On the 4th of January two men, of the names of Quin
and Murphy, were tried for beating a man violently. The
evidence wont to show that the only offence of the prosecutor
was his not belonging to the combination, he not being able
on demand to give the sign of recognition. The other case
cecurred on the 11th of January, when a man and his wife
were severely beaten, merely because the man was not a corn-
binator. Did he complain of the police of Dublin ? A
change had taken place, and the police of Dublin was now
as different as possible. But he thought lie had a right to
say that the magistracy of Dublin required to be changed.
He did not complain of any designed faults, but Mr. Blacker
:was now ninety years of age, and was still a police magis-
trate. Major Sirr was eighty-two years old, and Alderman
Barley was seventy-five. Men who had served fifteen,
;twenty, or thirty years in the police, ought to be removed by
the Government, and why did not Government remove them?
Hear, hear.) Police magistrates were entitled to retire
,after a certain term of service, but with only two-thirds salary.
This was a false economy. It would be much better,
:after men had served for twenty or thirty years, to
allow them to retire with their full salary. He hoped
Government would consider this, and allow those
gentleu
ice to retire on a full salary, and to aapniut an effi-
cient magistracy. He thought he had made out a complete
easaseif fioler
wineqrueirtyile
.—( Hear, hear.) Had he made out his case
enemy
of the tradesman ? He had made out
his case as the frlead of the child, whom he wanted to have
educated in trade.—( Hear, hear, hear.) lie had made out
hit case as the friend of the good workman, who ought to re-
to see capital and the number of
eeitie large gages.—( Hear, hear, hear.) He had made out
his case as one who wished
employers increased, by which the labourers would legiti-
rotely obtain largo- wages.—( Hear, hear.) Could anything
be more abotoinalsle than the present monopoly ; and were
men to be allowed to enter inie these combinations for the
purpuSo of p pomitting4-Jury and injustice upon Was
there. any other country in 'the wnrrd itlwhieli it wag 'so de-
thebou employment of labour as in Fe.
r was immense, and the increased
sil
a rl,,adb e _
eencourage
zan; t
uin
la
*ealih would iste' immense ppit4l were employed.—
Hear, hear, hear.) If he tad not 1.44 04 a ease satisfac•
toady, avisuid refsr to a statement made 'by the merchants
of Dublin, WI4QII WAS ei p Trt q'tHrP! The Honourable