The Sun.
London, England, 1854-02-21 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

'ROUSE OF COMMONS—(YESTERDAY.)
GLASGOW POST-QFFICE.
Mr. J. MACGREGOR asked the cause of the delef in
completing the Post-office at Glasgow ?
Mr. WILSON replied, the delay was chiefly attributable
to the people of Glasgow themselves, but the works would
b :speedily resumed.
ADJOURNED DEBATE—THE WAR QUESTION.
On the order of the day to resume the adjourned debate
on Mr. LAYARD'S motion respecting our relations with
Russia,
Mr. COBDEN rose and said, it was because, even after
the speech of the noble lord (Lord J. Russell) on Friday
might, which sounded to him (Mr. Cobden) like the war
blast before the crash of arms, he was still at a loss to make
out exactly our position. We had been now so excited by
the aggression of Russia upon Turkey, that we looked upon
it as an affront to ourselves, and so had nearly forgotten the
origin of this miserable quarrel. It should be borne in mind
that in 1851 a gentleman, M. Levallette, presented himself
at Constantinople, and shocked us by the "en rgstic"
way in which he insisted upon the restoration of the Holy
Places, almost as rudely as Prince Menschikoff did after-
wards. That gentleman (M. Lavallette) represented the
Republic of France, and he it was who first disturbed the
status quo about the Holy Places. We were told that, in the
case of France, it was true she most handsomely ,withdrew-
her demand. (Hoar, hear.) But still, it must be remem-
bered, that it was France that first disturbed the status
quo. It was heart-sickening to find that, after 700 or
800 years of Christianity, we were going to fight —the
world was going to be deluged in blood, not for Christian-
ity but for Mahommedanism. (Cries of "Oh.") The
hon, member read a proclamation from the Sultan, and a
counter-proclamation from Russia, about the guarantee
for the Holy Places. The Porte refused to give a
special, but agreed to give a general, guarantee on
this subject, and the four Powers then drew up
a note with this object, which was approved by the
English and French Governments, and accepted by
the Emperor of Russia, but refused by Turkey, and words
bearing an interpretation different from those previously
agreed to by Turkey proposed to be inserted in the note.
That being the history of the matter, the practical ques-
tion we have before us was, was it wise or prudent that
Turkey should have been advised not to sign
that note ? What did Russia want ? An oppor-
tunity of interfering in Turkey when she chose, pre-
cisely as we did with Brazil, when we endeavoured to
make her respect her own treaties. It' had been said we
-were endeavouring to sustain the independence of Turkey;
but the question was, had Turkey any real independence;
and it came to this—that we were going to deluge Europe
with blood on an infinitessimal ground of quarrel.
If Turkey were -a country with a population all highly
eivilised—if a similar thing occurred for instance with re-
gard to Prussia, and after helping Prussia to get rid of
'her oppressors, we could then leave her to her own excel-
lent Government. Bat was that the case with Turkey ?He
said, whether it came from Russia or from England, the
Christian population of Turkey were looking for aid against
their own Government. He (Mr. Cobden) at close of last
session, when this subject was incidentally brought for-
ward, stated to the house what was now made clear, that
it was the condition of the Christian population of Turkey
formed the main feature of this quarrel. Lord Stratford
had left Constantinople last year not expecting to go back
to it,. and he was then entertained at a dinner by
the British residents, and he male a speech there.
Lord Stratford was, . however, specially re-appointed to
Constantinople, and he (Mr. Cobden) would read to the
house an extract from Lord Clarendon's despatch to Lord
Stratford, in which he was instructed to make* strong re-
monstrances with the Sultan and his Government son the
reckless mal-administration of the Turkish empire as re-
garded the Christian population. On 21th June Lord Cla-
zendon again wrote to Lord Stratford telling him to re-
monstrate with the Porte against the inferiority of
the position of the Christian population, inasmuch as their
evidence would not be received in the Turkish Courts of
Law. Lord Clarendon further instructed Lord Stratford
to urge upon the Porte that such a state of things " could
AO longer be tolerated by Christian Powers. Now he (Mr.
Cobden) asked what good came of an alliance betwe en two
,divernments, where the one asks the other to abandon the
ctates of the Koran—which entered into the civil law as
well as into the religious observances of the Turkish people.
About that very time Lord Stratford had very properly
caused inquiries to be made, through our consuls in
Turkey, as to the state of the Christian population. Lord
Stratford got a great number of these reports, which he (Ur.
Cobden) was sorry to find so garbled in the blue-books.
Those reports Lord Stratford submitted to the Turkish
Government, and he wrote twice to that Government
afterwards, pressing upon them wain and again the
cruelties exercised towards the Christie% population.
(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Cobden) said when he
alluded last ses-don to the state of Turkey, the noble
lord the member for Tivertou (Lord Palmerston), made
si declaration to this effect —" I assert, without fear of con-
tradiction, that Turkey so far from having gone back dur-
ing the last 30 years, has made more improvement in every
possible way than perhaps was ever made by any other
country during the same period." (Hear, hear.) Now,
he (Mr. Cobden) asked if the noble lord was still of that
"opinion, and if he was, upon what intelligible grounds
Le founded it—for certainly those reports of our
own ()consuls in Turkey, and the language used by Lord
Clarendon in his despatches to Lord Stratford, told a very
different tale. (Hear.) We were asked to form an alli-
ance with Turkey, or to use a commercial phrase, to go
into partnership with her, and he maintained that it was
the neore necessary we should inquire into her present con-
dition and future prospects. It might perhaps be said
that the diecontent of the Christians in Turkey was stirred
sup by neighbouring countries ; but it appeared to him
that the sufferings and wrongs of the Christians in furkev
were so great that they must explode, and we might expect
to hear of an insurrection among them. Ha (Mr. Cobden)
did not mean to disparage the Turk because he was of a
different religion from himself, but he re lintained that
the majority of the population of Turkey were themselves
Christians ; and they might, depend upon it, if Tur-
key was invaded by Russia, and those consular
documents and ambassador? al despatches be true, we might
send 20,000, or 30,000, or 50,03) troops there, it would bs
in vain for us, with the great body of the people of Turkey
against us. He hoped, e.t a 1 events, that the troops we were
going to send to Thrkey would not be employed in settling
any internal dispute in that country. but that we would
carry out the neamintervention principle in that respect, at I
all events. LosAing at it as a religious question, although
he was not disposed to make it one, was there not a strong
religious feeling in Turkey ? There was nothing but
religious fanaticism on the one yid , and impious religious
manifestoes on the other. 0-nor Pache made no appeal to
any 'met the Mahomedan element, telling them, in his
address, when fighting with the enemy, to be firm and
courageous and to he ready to sacrifice their heeds and their
lives for their religion and their Government. The appeal
was made solely to the fanaticism of the country, and the
31abouaedans formed only a fourth of the whole population
of Turkey in Europe. It was no patriotic appeal -it was
religious fanaticism, that brought up troops from the remote
parts of Asia and Africa. That certainly was no proof of
the progress of improvement in a country, unless the being
• able to maintain an army six months in the field could be
considered such. He would not have referred to the com-
mercial view of the question if it had not been used as an
argument by other hon. gentlemen, who contended that the
war with Russia would have the effect of putting a stop to
our Trade with Turkey. That was referred to by a noble
lord in order to show how insignificant our trade was with
Russia as compared with Turkey. He believed that feel-
ing, which he would show to be erroneous, was very much
shared in by the people of this country, and that there
was a feeling abroad that we were about to fight for pecu-
niary gaiu. He was prepared to show that that feeling was
erroneous. It was not easy to ascertain the precise amount
of the trade between this country and Russia ; but he had
gone into the City among he most eminent merchants
engaged in the Russian, Greek, and Levant trades, and he
was astonished at the result of his inquiries, as he had not
estimated it at half so much. He had been told that the
trade with Russia, that their exports to this country were
less than 2,ooo,oool.—that Russia was a protectionist
country, and was under a protectionist delusion, as many
persons in this country formerly were. (A laugh.) He had
been under the impression that, their exports amounted to
5,000,0001. or 6,000,0001., and some persons said that even
that was an exaggeration. He got his information from
sources that might be relied upon. He had got the account
from the different houses, and here were the exports for
the last year :
Tallow £1,800,000
Linseed 1,300,000
Flax and hemp
Wheat
Wool 4,000,000
300,000
Oats
500,000
Other grain
Pristles 452,000
*Timber, deal, and other woods 501000
• ,
Iron
Copper
Hides 60,000
Miscellaneous matters
Making in all 13 020,0031. fie our imports from Russia.
(Hear, hear.) That was in time year 1853, when there was
a large import of wheat. The other house to which he
*,pplied gave hiui an average year, making the amount
21,030,000/. ; but it put down wheat at 2,000,00 K instead
of 4,000,0001., which made precisely the difference. He
was info ed that, in addition to that, about 1,000,0001.
sterling of produce of Russia came down the Bug, the
Vis-
and from other ports in the Black Sea ; and he was
milder the mark when he said that the exports of Russia
to this country might be taken at 12,000,0001. sterling an-
erually. Most of these tallow,
were articles of paramount value
and importance to their manufactures. Takefor
instance. How could their machinery or how could their
locomotives travel unless they had grease forwheels their ?
(A laugh) With regard to inseed, the hon. member for
Cambridgeshire knew that no persons were more interested
in its supply than the agriculturists. They complained
that the food for cattle was too high. Did they want the
linseed cut off? As regarded flax and hemp, in the large
constituency he had the honour to represent, if a state of
things could he supposed in which they would be cut off
from all intercourse with Russia, there would bo very
great distress and misery in some districts in the West
Riding of Yorkshire. Again, Russian iron was an article
which entered into the production of their finest steel ; he
was told in Sheffield that they would find it difficult to
carry on the finest part of their manufactures unless they
'were supplied with Russian iron. He 'turned now to
Turkey. It was stated that their trade with Turkey
:amounted to about three millions. That was true, but he
believed that only one million of what was set down as
exports to Turkey went to Persia, Trehizon4, and central
Asia, through the Black Sea. Turkey did not import for
its own. consumption more than 2,000,0001. or 2,500,0001.,
. ' so th t they had a Russian trade that was three times
greater than that of Turkey. There was no one foreign
country whose trade was so important to the people of
- England as Russia, except, perhaps, the United States ;
and it should be remembered that all their exports went in
- their own bottoms. There could be no ground; then, for
the commercial preference given to Turkey; on the con-
trary, it was all on the other side. Now, with regard to
the war, he would not say a word except as to the
means. Were they to convey land forces into Turkey,
or would they not fall back upon the common sense
and experience of twenty or thirty years age? What
. would come of it if they were to fight battles 1,500 miles
off, with land forces ? He thought they ought; not to
send their armies to be mixed up with the internal con-
tests of a semi-barbarou,, country. They might send 20,000
or 30,000 men, but they would find great difficulty in
getting them away again. Let them send their natural
strength—their feets—to protect Turkey externally; but
let Om not wad their armies, Let thew look at France