The Sun.
London, England, 1854-05-20 00:00:00

TIVERT AL

EXCISE DUTIES BILL.

li_ 0a

-""

46 48

40 43
71 - 73
7 - 8

"Non meus hie sermo, sed
Qum prteeepit °puling."
The LORD CHANCELLOR said that their l
ships should bear in mind that in legislating onord
this
The
eubjeot they bad a most diffioult duty to perform.

_ ....- '
PA 1 LT A Nig-NT. : public had at, various ernes corripttuneal ,
Na..t of eati-ii: le, at•olt 11,1 the part of rail
. ‘ iir regulating their treffia se as to meet thi
'".
ii.ol.l—L OF tal:D ‘; ---"O7f:IAT ERD A.Y. ) • opTiaLoiel?bpySt,bol,l,e;Foperwoyt:sstlii7eei,
otsrtaiiitatelfa.rarnivb
R PORTED LOSS OF THE TR; E'3,.
traii.e, by an indier company's line, had
Tee Ein of MALM ESIAT RV ',aid, he wished to aek
place, awl the,.. it eften happened that tin
the noble duke (Newel-tie) a rrh:stioil ref:illII:le to a,,ii-e(i
imeeeiegere w 4 ire kept waiting for some
•t •Ilich lied cause greet anxiety, 'when. 1 ae,it , , . ,
part A, :01,,tLier train to carryin:2,- thew on. Eve,
,1 he
.re" .this difficulty, So it was said that some per ens
were
prevaikd f.r some title without contradiction.
alloWed-undue advantages, with regard to the carriage
port t.. which he allude I was that tier Nlajesty s steam
in
frigate the Tiger had been lost on the coast of the Black of goods certain lines of railways, and this ought to
Sea, and that the crew had become prisoners to the
be dealt with. He was free to confess that when this
Ruesians. He wished to know whether the noble duke
, subject wan first suggested to him, he thought that a
had any reason to believe that that report was true, and
board of eontroul would have been the most effectual
whether lie had received any account of the alleged imeans of meeting the difficulty, but on further conside
transaction ? He also wished to know whether an ac- ration that comae appeared impracticable. The scheme
count he had reae,..l in the Moniteur were correct, emir ing
followed out by this measure was the only other mod,
to which it appeared that the French admiral reported
of dealing with the question. It consisted, in effeet,
to his Government Chat, a certain number of Russian I of two clauses, the remaining sections being purely sub-
prisoners having been taken from aboard merchantmen sidiary. The first clause declared that railway coin pe-
at Odessa, it was proposeit to the Russian commander of
, nies should afford due facilities with respect to traffic.
that place to exchange those prisoners for English and To this it was asked what were "due facilities." It was
French persons detained at Odessa, but that no answer objected that the bill only affirmed moral obligations.
was returned by the Russian commander, and the result Now it might be very difficult, without any case put,
was that the English admiral th eught fit to give up the to say what were due facilities ; but on a question com-
prisoners and set them free. Noeva as in the course of ing before a court, it would not, he thought, be so in-
the war it could not be expected ti'eat the allied forces possible as his noble friend (Lord Campbell) reason .
should always be successful and mot suffer some
little misfortunes, such as losing by to say what were not so. Other branches of the law r
accident some on this foundation, and had worked well. Innkeeper
ships or men, the latter becoming. prisoners to were bound to possess due facilities for the reception of-
the Russians, it was evident that, if the English corn- uests • common carriers to provide due facilities far
menders did not retain a certain number o'f men, at all fhe'carriia t 4 of goods. Titis had not been found too
events, as prisoners of war, they would lia.-ire none to
exchange against English prisoners. He cone indefinitega stiite of things for these branches crf the
'glided that
the report to which he referred must be inco;reect, and law ; why should it not work equally well with respecSto
he was sure their lordships would not misundersta. railways 1 With regard to the mode of bringing the
nd him
ect before a court by me
by supposing that he threw any blame on any re corn-' bill subjat first stood,
upon affidavit, as tlaik
mendatiou which the Government might have given to tion of the statute an action
its officers to carry on the war in the most hum.," ,
shoulda be tried. The mit was proposed that upon an infra&
ile
manner possible. At the same time, it was clear that, te` i way companies, however, that this would be
which he referred might be pushing the princip:es of putting all parties to an ,uh suggested
•eseary expense ; for the
Christianity and civilisation too far, and be eventually were willing to forego a trial, and leave the question to
the means, indeed, of prolonging the contest. . the judges only. The noble and learned lord (Campbell)
had certainly put a somewhat forced construction upon
The Duke of NEWCASTLE said that, with regard to
the ,opposed loss of the Tiger, it was not hi his power the fourth clause when he said it would enable the corn-
moo law courts to get rid of the act altogether. The
entirely to relieve their lordships from anxiety, but at clammerely ee proposed to enact that the courts of law
the same time he was unable to confirm the report re-
might, as they though tfit, make any orders and regula-
ferred to in any way ; and, so farasany opinion could
lions which would assist in carrying the act into exemt-
at present be formed, he was inclined to hope that the
tion before such courts—that was to say, before those
reper hear.) The only inforina- t
was not true. (Hefei courts oS law themselves. (Hear.) It the noble lord
tion received by the Government, or anybody else, so
thought t hat the clause was ill-expressed, it was easy to
•
fir as he was able to ascertain on
the suit? .e
1 ct, b
was
remedy thLet defect in committee.
through a telegraphic message received yeh• erioamy y
The Earl of DERBY said he rose for the purpose of
a mercantile house in the cit, coeveying
One rumour
calling the attention of the Government to a point of
rs.n.ieetfigreatreferred
e, ibi tedinvepetpi
believed,
fileatbiii,
by
en eoicll Noatv,
courts
claim
lirictehsv
,r,
haoifi was
lov
railway
,anyiol
law,act
dottnoolhupecaehi
oieides setn
tit
ph the by i l
al ;
~
ohne-
which appeared in the newspaperts.
amung altars, for his hoping tha the re ort woit);
not correct, was that the steamer reported
itloel) bea4 ltohset
and
fadmitted,rom
all
was represented to be a screw-steamer, w re .
responsibility for injury done to exemption
passengers ort
ogfo goods,
Tiger was a paddlewheel steamer. This inaccuracy was
calculated to create a hope that the story of of the loss
notwithstanding proved negligence on the
of the Tiger might turn out to be something like the pre-
company, through simply placing at the backpar
of the
viously rumoured loss of the Amphion. (Hear.) At ticket a declaration that they would not hold themselves
the same time the Government was not able to give a liable for any damages. (Hear, hear.) A case was tried
positive denial to the report. With regard to the second
riot long ago in which a number of cattle got out of the
question put by the noble earl, respecting the prisoaers
train. It was proved that the truck in which they were
taken by our fleet, he had not seen the statement in the
was of extremely faulty construction, and that tuere was
Moniteur to which the noble earl referred ; but if the
great negligence in the manner of securing them ; but
noble earl had quoted it correctly, the Moniteur had ter- the defence set up was that the person who brought
tainly not given, on the present occasion, that accurate
the cattle to the train received a ticket, on the back
report which it was in the habit of giving in reference to
of which it was stated that the company would
all matters connected with the conduct of the war. It
not hold themselves liable, and it was decided that,
was true that the British ships had taken some 40 or 50
notwithstanding the inadequacy of the arrange-
prisoners, consisting of per-on i not connected with ships
ments, there was no remedy. It had been said that
of war, and Admiral Dundas, knowing that there were
the remedy wculd be fur the party to refuse to sign or
English sailors of tile same carts, belotiging to merchant
accept the ticket, and, in case the company should ne-
yes:els in the harbour of Odessa, detained prisoners by
~,
„lest to afford the requisite accommodation to bring
the Russians, wrote to General Oeten-Sackers to pro
an action against it for refusing to fulfil the duties of
pose an exchange of prisoner:. General Osten-Sacken,
common carriers. This was no practical remedy. In
so far from inalciog no reply, returned very courteously
the first place, there was ail the expense and trouble to
an answer by letters upon the same day to Admiral Dun- which individuals were put in proceeding against a
des, stating that he had no instructions in reference to
wealthy company, and this, too, without the certainty
the exchange of prisoners. but that lie wend unmediated) of success, because the responsibility of railway com-
apply for instructions to General Paekewitsch. He (the
anies as common carriers was by no means a settled
Duke of Newcastle) had no reason to suppose that Ad-
Peiiiit of law ; and in the next place, even if the party
miral Dundas had given up prisoners without exchange; irecovered a certain amount of damages, that would be
and with reference to prisoners who might hereafter be
no satisfaction to him for his cattle ur goods having been
taken, instructions how to dispose of them had been sent
to Admit-el Dundas. prevented from arriving at a particular place by a par-
ticular time. In the case which he bad mentioned the
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH said, that however
(etude were fat cattle which were required to be at
nervous they might be at home with respect to events
Smithfield on Monday. It must not be forgotten that
occurring from day to day in the course of what might
oarties hail no choice in this matter. Railway corn-
6be a long war, he trusted that they would not carry patties were the great mouopoltsere of the carrying trade
i their nervousness into that house. (Hear, hear.) In
il thought `of the country. To say that a person might object to
regard to the question which the noble earl had
sign the ticket
it necessary to put respecting the loss of a single ship, , when if he did so the company might
he would observe that they roust expect in the couree of relnse to carry his cattle or goods, was really to refuse
un-
the war some accidents to occur ; but if all that had any practical remedy. He must say he could not
been stated respecting the steamer in question were true derstand on what principle it was that railway coca-
(and c,trtainly everything they knew of Russian docu- panics, having suck entire control over the traffic of the
ments eaas riot calculated to impress them with the con- country, were to exempt themselves from the responsie
documents conveyed the hility which ought to attach to them as common carriers
viction atll at once that those documents
b
truth), he was, nevertheless, satisfied that the wholey putting at the back of a ticket a declaration that they
would not hold themselves liable on account of any in-
truth was met known ; and if it were correct that two
other steatnei's came up and fired their guns, it was his jury. The bill before their lordships purpol ted to define
impression thOt those two steamers were engaged in the duties and responsibilities of railway companies ;
bringing off the steamer aground. (Hear.) and he thought the point to which he had directed their
lordships' attention ought not to be forgotten in dealing
The Earl of 11.tAL.NIESBURY said that this was the
second dine the noble lord hail lectured him in that with its
provisions'
house for the coursie he had felt it incuinlient on him- Lord LYNDHURST said by the common law of this
self to take in discharge of his duty. It the lesson country a common carrier was bound to accept any goode
that were offered to him ; and if, in consequence of his
which the noble lord had read him had proceeded
negligence, the owner of the gouda suffered, he was
from any member of' their lordship's house, distil bound to make reparation.
p
' guished both by his igment and modesty, he should
be- Earl GREY said the case referred to by the noble
not have made one observation in reply to it,
cause the example would have added weight to the earl (the Earl of Derby) occurred in the county of
Northumberland, and such was the effect of the language
advice given ;but when he considered that the noble
used on the back of the ticket, that it the servants of the
earl had. not only made the present war, but
all other wars, the continual subject of his eloquent company had wilfully cut the throats of the cattle, the
haranguee that the noble earl took upon himself company would have claimed to be exempt. (Hear,
hear.) If he were not misinformed, an effort had been
not only the duties of an illustrious general, but
also of a great admiral that he never lost an opportunity made to carry easing ion beyond the case of cattle or
for advising the noble duke opposite, who was principally goods. A must useful measure was passed some years
responsible for the conduct of the present war, as to what ago at the inetaece of his noble and learned friend be.
should be d,7ne— when lie considered, moreover, that the hind him (Lord Campbell) by which railway companies
noble earl toed not confined his comments to events past were made liable for injury to passengers in their lives
by, respecting* which the Government consequently
or limas. One railway company had actually issued
might have no objection to give explanations, but, on tickets with a notice on the back of them, to the effect
the contrary, ha d inure than once, by his comments and that parties were not to have the remedy provided by
questions, extracted from the reluctant Ministers replies act of Parliament. He believed the courts of law thought
dangerous to the public service—lie really thought that that a little too strong.
the noble earl was not the man, notwithstanding his Lord CAMPBELL—Waste-paper.
high reputation for ability and his great experience in Earl GREY continued—He admitted that the liabili.
war—(a laugh)—to venture to give a lesson to another ties of railway companies should be limited. They
peer who merely asked i-Lir information in order to assuage should not be liable, for example, for damage done to a
the anxiety of the public .and of the relatives of those per- race-horse worth 2,000 guineas or for valuable jewels,
sons who happened to be on board of the vessel reported unless notice were given, and such property was insured.
to be lost, particularly as the noble duke opposite might Lord LYNDHURST said common carriers were re-
have had in his possession in teitieence calculated to (lie- sponsible for jewels, if they had notice and were paid
pel the alarm which had been i.ereated. (Hear, hear.) accordingly.
He thought he should not be accused by their lordshi): The LORD CHANCELLOR said under the bill the
generally. of any indiscretion or bail aaste in having asked Attorney-General could prosecute by the direction of the
the noble duke opposite a queetiou oii so interesting a Board of Trade.
suct. Earl GREY- said lie greatly regretted that their lord-
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH Fah .1, that if he hail ships did not tike the course which he suggested at the
given a lesson to the noble earl it was a \ 'cry short one ; commencement of the session. It seemed to bite that
and, notwithstanding the.leseon he had recs.
'iced from the they ought to have inquired what facilities railway cotn-
noble earl, of much greater length, he shoilid contmue sallies should afford. H tying made up their tilled on
to do, what he had always done in that house, aspecialle that subject, they should have trained clauses carrying
since the commelicement of the present session- --namely oat their views ; and they ehould have made it a general
endeavour in every way, according to hie judgtate tit, to standing order of the house that no additional powers
strengthen our position in carrying on the war. should be granted to any comp my unless those clauses
RAILWAY AND CANAL TRAFFIC REGCLA-- were introduced in the bill by which those powers were
TION BILL. sought. Nothing could be more rea.sonab e than that
Lord STANLEY of A LDERLEY reminded the bottle as guardians of the public interest they should impose
such a condition.
that this measure was funded on a comprehensive report'.
Lord LYNDHURST wished to know whether his
which had been made by a committee of the House of
noble friend apposite (Lord Stanley of Alderley) would
Commons. The recommendations of the committee were I ~,,,,sent to introduce a clause in committee putting the
in the first place limited to the carrying on of the busi-
leebilities of railway compotes, as regarded cattle, on a
ness of railway legislation before the House of Commons, her l with those of common carriers,
and to the adoption of some means of preventing rail -
Li ,rd STANLEY-of AL DE RLE IT said, with regard to
way schemes being abandoned. This latter object had the b u
been effected by requiring the deposit of a sum of money gestion with which the noble earl (Grey) concluded,
he did-'npot think the other house of Parliament would
to be forfeited in the event of the non-completion of the
works. Time next proposal of the committee was that
lionaprove 04 that mede of giving the go by to its legisla-
upon which the bill before the house had been framed.
noble
by, Irnleo. standing
el
i be o
.:orsilieuro„e d
,( do enareflection,
that The
It was in effect that means should be taken to compel 7t:stoflnaine
railway and canal companies to afford proper facilities time tehienag was riot practicable. As regarded postal tom-
- inunications, LI wished to state that a committee of the
for traffic. Parliament had reported that it was
other house of
Lord CAMPBELL was quite ready to approve of the with that subject in a separate bill.
sage dient to deal
object of this bill, which was an excellent one, hut of
ls to the questioo of the nome lord (Lyndhurst) he
the machinery for carrying that object into effect he , railway companies and common
aye no reason why
could by no means speak so satisfecturily. Indeed the
carriers' should not h© put on the same footing. He
bill fell very far short of what might be expected when
noped there would be rio opposition to Cie second
the end in view was considered—(hear, hear)—but even
reading of the bill. laruwever little it might effect in
in endeavouring to carry out its own object,•it was most
the opinion of s me, it laid down the great prin-
ineffective. (Hear, hear.) It really sought to turn the
C 1 ,le that there were duties and obligations rest-
judges of the courts into railway directors. He and his
ing on railways which must be discharged ; while the
brother judges were most willing to perform the duties
machinery which the Gove,-ument proposed had the con-
cast upon them by the law of the land, but the duties
currence of the railway companies.
now sought to be cast upon them had nothing whatever
Lord LYNDHURST said the noble lord had not
to r:o with the law. There was nothing laid down hen
stated distinctly what course ;le intended to pursue in
the bill for the judges to enforce. The whole of th
committee with regard to the at uendments which he had,
law for the courts to apply to railways was come
suggested.
prised in the second section. What did this
that
don Lord STANLEY of A.LDEILEY said he saw no
don say 3 It really enacted no more than
ttlhis ;r objection objection to it himself, but he wiser consult others.
railway companies ought to act hull ey— (I Ille Marquis of CLAN RICAR LIE said though he
bound '
hear, and a laugh)—ind the sectionsothehrerthey
did so or considered the bill quite inadequate, yet he was so
the common law judges to say
whetno common law, no hungry for legislation that he should gladly accept it,
not. But there was no statue law,
to
decide. A
perusal 01 If their lordships meant to grapple with the question,
previous decision to help them they must begin at the begiiming
would convince their lord- and amend the whole
the second section of the act
tio
a, The clause enacted mode of proceeding with regard to railway bills. (Hear,
ships that he was not exacgera a hear.)
acrd canal cotnpany shall
that "Every railway company a
.
facilities trigh recving an or-
d f Lord CAMPBELL said he would not say a word
afford all reasonable
h ' duty already 7
" Was not t eir . .
against the second reading, if • time were given to consult
warding traffic.
be no "unreasonable preference or his brother judges before tie bill was committed.
Again, there was to
t ality ." clearly there
ought to be A
none now. gam, The bill was then read a sceond time.
parh
were these duties, undene as they were, to be
how
d 1 By mot
ion upon affidavit. Affidavits would
enforce
be made tht fares were improperladjusted, that trains
did not go oftn enough, or that time times of running
them were inconvt nient, and it was then expected that
a court of law would be able to judge of these 'netters,
It was, indeed, suggested that competent engineers might
report
- to the court, but that only heightened the coefu-
eion. Reports could lie made on one side, counter-re-
ports on the other, and thus the court would be driven
to decide on matters of fact. 'rids was entirely against
the principle. Theretofore matters of law, and ot law
only, were to be decided by the judges. The only clause
m the bill which gave him any relief at all was the 4th.
By that it appeared that the judges might might make
such regulations " touching the practice and otherwise
in carrying the act into execution before such courts as
they mtght think fit." If this clause meant what it
said—(hear)—it was perfectly possible for the judges at
Westenteister to get ri i of the act, and shift the burden
of n ppl ying it to any court —that of Quarter Sessions, or
of Pied Poudre, it they chose. This seemed such an
extraordinary provision that he feared he had misunder-
stood tare clause. In conclusion, he repeated that he had
always been, and hoped he should ever remain, willing
to perlorni those duties which belonged to his office as a
judge, but

HOUSE OF COMMON S-(1 ESTERDAY.)

On clause'2,
Mr. WALPOLE said that the clause enacted that the
tax should commence on the Bth May and continue un
the sth of July in a-:y year neat after the ratification of
peace. If, therefore, peace should be concluded early
ed
in
the autumn this which was a war tax would
be continu
for a year after peace was concluded.
Mr. WILSON said it had been custo ma ry in rising
after
assing
duties fur war purposes, to state a specificand
periodcease
.co being concluded, at which they should ;
ope
th July Was chosen, because it was a convenient time
that for
arranging, the balances. Another r eason
the war was, in order
and
the tax should be continued longer than lf,
reference wade to the accounts of 1816, it
war had just
would be found
that the expenditure of that year, when the
ceased, was larger than in any year during its continuance.
Mr. WALPOLE said, if the object
tax for aye ,r after the war was ended, in order to defray
the current expenses of the year, and the peace occurred
just before July, you could nut affect that object. The
.I words ought to be "one month after the conclusion of

Pele.. WILSON said it was not intended to meet the cur-
incurred in the war.
rent::pgeouusesraelflytl,ie year in whip h the war ended, but ex-
- a few words from Mr. HENLEY,
Mr. GOULBURN said you could nut put an end to the
dutymust
iS(1)1W time fur on the conclusi.in of peace, because yowl
for dealing with the stock in hand of dim'
tillers. If there was any alteration the words ought to be
"six months after the conclusion of
.”
Mr. WILLPOLE Aga the clans: did not refer to opiriii

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