The Sun.
London, England, 1838-07-10 00:00:00

SPIRIT OF THE PUBLIC JOURNALS.

We are rejoiced to find that the National Loan Fund
Bill has been triumphantly passed in the House of Com-
mons. It wi.l be seen that it was last night read a third
time, and passed by a majority of three to one. It was also
last eialit introduced into the House of Lordsos here it
was real a first time. Considering the excellent principles
on which this hi 1 is based, and the triumphant majority
by which it was passed in the Commons, there can be no
question that it will also pass the Upper House. this Ses-
sion. We are rejoiced at the all hut certain prospect of
this Bill immediately becoming the law of the land,
not only because we were among its earliest and most
earnest advocates, but because of the vast amount of
rood of which it cannot fail to be productive to the com-
munty generally, but especially to those who stand most
in need of any benefit it may conkr, namely, the working
classes. Hitherto they have been mocked and cheated out
of their hard earnings by the entire brood of benefit and
other mutual protection Societies, no matter by what name
they hate been called. 'rife Society in question secures
them or their families, in any conceivable case, the return of
the greater amount of the money they have paid, while to
those whr reach an advanced age it secures a comfortable
independency ; and this it does on the easiest possible
terms, on such terms as the loner classes cannot feel to be
a sacrifice of any of their humble comforts, far less of their
twee:sillies. Their subscriptions will be received weekly,
monthly, qu irterly, half-yearly, once in three quarters,
or annually, just as is most convenient for the members
themselves. Such a Society must soon raise the social and
moral character of the labouring classes ; while it will res-
cue them from the c'.utches of the whole tribe of schemers
and swindlers, who, under various names and in various
ways, have been plundering them for the last half century.
It will make the working classes independent, not only of
. the Poor-rates, but of that assistance from the nobility,
gentry, and others, which they have been compelled so often
in ssasons of great pressure to solicit. And it will thus, in-
directly, benefit the wealthier classes, inasmuch as they will
rot only have to pay less in the shape of Poor-rates, but will
not have cause to put their hands into their pockets for bene-
v, lsnt purposes so frequently as before. The excellence of
the principles on which the Bill is based was so evident
and undeniable, that when Sir Benjamin Hall moved the
third reading no one ventured to utter it word against the
measure. The President of the Board of "rrale, it is true,
opposed it, but that was only on the ground that he in-
tended to bring in a general measure of the same kind.
But when it was stated to the House that this Bill had
been so long before it, and that no general measure was
yet introduced, and could not now be carried this Session,
the impression in favour of the third reading of the Na-
tional Loan Fund Bill was all but universal—hence the
triumphant majority by which the third reading was car-
ried. It triumphs, we repeat, is no less certain in the Up-
per House.—Morning Advertiser,
The Irish Poor-law Bill was read a third time last
night in the Lords, and passed. The division was 93 to
31. The Lords who have usually spoken against this Bill,
took this last opportunity of protesting against it. Lord
Brougham made a long speech, eulogising the English Poor-
law, and condemning the Irish, because Ireland was with-
out the machinery which enables the English Poor-law Bill
to produce beneficial effects. The Noble and Learned
Lord contrived to introduce all manner of subjects
into his speech. He dwelt at some length on the
contradictory evidence they had respecting Ireland,
and quoted private letters and a recent speech
of Mr. O'Connell as evidence that Ireland was
not in a satisfactory state. Among other points,
be touched upon the uselessness of the Vice-regal
Government, quoting the opinions of several Irish states-
men in support of his views. Hii Lordship omitted
the strongest of all arguments for the continuance of the
otfice of Lord Lieutenant—the income attached to the
office. If water be in our times a means of facilitating
communication instead of retarding it, if the people on
the opposite banks of a river or an arm of the sea have
generally more intercourse with each other than people
separate by mountains, there seems no reason why Ireland,
separated by water from England, should have a separate
government any more than Yorkshire or Scotland. But
this was thrust in head and shoulders into the discussion of
the Irish Poor-relief Bill. Lord Melbourne hit the nail
on the head when he said that—
" He knew that there was a pretty general feeling against
the E.'ll in the minds of the Irish gentry—a feeling which
made hio doubt whether the measure had been fairly repre-
sented to those humbler classes f,r whose benefit it was in-
tended. If fairly represented to the poor he did not believe
that they wu.'td entertain such sentiments with respect to it
re had been stat,sd by the Nob!e and Learned Lord. He ai-
initted that there a lig a vent difference in the condition of Ire-
laud as compared iyi:h that of. England ; he admitted, too,
that the measure then before them was one that would proba-
bly he attended with much difficulty in its first application ;
but he saw neither in the difference between the two coun-
tries, nor in the difficulties by which the Bill might at first be
attended, anything that made him despair of its ultimately
working to the great advantage and improvement of the desti-
tute poor in Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) The opposition that ha'l
Leen raised to the Bill did not convince him either that its
principle was bad or its machinery inefficient."
His Lordship observed afterwards that he could not
persuade himself that a Bill which promised so much good
to the poor of Ireland could be so extremely unpopular
tin oughout the whole of that country, because it would int.
pose some additional charge upon the landlords. Lord
Brougham's argument goes against all Legislative attempts
at improvement whatever. Why is a Poor-law proposed
for Ireland ? Not because the social condition of Ireland
is what it ought to be, but because it is wished to make it
resemble that of England. The principle which pervades
the English Poor-law is this—that the higher classes hold
their property on the tenure of providing for the wants of
tae lower. This principle, if acted on, will in t;me create
gradations of society in Ireland, instead of the two classes
which alone exist in that country now—gentry and beggars.
Without a Poor-law there never can be an efficient police,
and without a police there never can be an investment of
capital in the soil. Lord Brougham's long speech had not
one luminous point in it, except leis episode r, specting the
Lord-Lieutenancy. The Bill has now passed, and, in spite
of Open or socret uppikition, we hate no doubt that before
long it will work a great change in Ireland. Tile first
effects may he harsh, but ultimately it will conduce greatly
to the improyeniont of that country tang Chronicle.
The news arilviog daily from the other side of the At-
li. tie is not of the meat tranquiltzin; character. The re-
lieLion, properly speaking, had been put down before the
co meet of Catialan off ors received any admixture or
adulteration of busybody dicta', 1.41:io from the hands of
Lord Durham. We do not find that matters have mended
since. Outrage loss b !en heaped upon outrage by aggres-
rws on both sides of the St. Lawren,e, though chiefly, it
Deist b • acknowledgA Er an that of the thine., States.
The feeling along the whole line of frontier has been r..ei-
procally inflamed and ttl;!erated until the result at la-t is lert
to the fe soul arbitration of accident, which seems to domi-
neer over constituted authority, and to treat with equal in-
atilf,rence the Act of Cou.'ress, the orders of Van Buren,
the Durham skspotism, and the laws of civilized naforts.
It it sail that Lord Durham has sent a special
massage to thc President, and made upon him c•-r-
-strmig demands for redress in relation to the
Peer steam-boat, which, while within the supposed
protection of republican laws, wits attacked, pi lager+, and
slestreped, it, coat,topt of them, by au armed scd despe-
rate banditti, assuming a political ground for the aggres-
sion—yiz , that it was in revenge fur the capture of an
American steam-boat, employed it) making war upon the
British colonies. Now, the outrages committed by the
Caroline upon Great Britain, were precisely of the same
stature with that perpetrated by the assailants of the Sir
Robert Peel. Both enterprises were prepared within the
territory of the United States, under the very nose of the
republican authorities, and promoted and shared in by citi-
zens of the republic. In their objects and form the two out-
rages differed; the one being directed against a British island
—the other a British ship. Each amounted to an act of down-
right hostility towards Great Britain. To attempt to drown
the wrong inflicted on this country by a fierce and stupid cla-
mour against the mode of self-defence resorted to by her
Majesty's subjects, being the only means of protection left
n them, was worthy of the pirates with whom the crime
originated. We trust no officer or Minister of this country
has been weak enough to be
,influenced by regard to such
a fraud. In the same way we trust that Lord Durham
has represented in language of sufficient vigour to Mr. Van
.Buren the full force of the alternative in which the violence
of his own people, and the utter feebleness of his own laws,
and apparent carelessness of the American Legislature.
have placed 11:m. an 1 with him the republic herself. For,
inasmuch as her foremost duty towards foreign and friendly
,states is to protect them against aggres,ions prepared
tvithin her ports and territorios, it flows directly from that
principle. that if she withholds protection first, and repara-
tion afterwards, she in effect compels the injured state to
protect itse!r, and to vindicate its own wrongs by seek-
ing the wrot. rdoers in their den, and dragging them to
punishment. We see nothing whatsoeter in the overt
acts of the United States Government to justify a sus-
picion that Mr. Van Buren will deliberately throw impedi-
ments in the way of justice when appealed for by Great
The tine of his last message to the House of
;Representative: refers in a spirit of frankness and good
sieigtibourhood to the sentiments which animate the coun-
cils of both States, as contrasted with the abominable
" design apparently formed, and in the course of execution,
by Canadians who have 'found a refuge within our" (the
reluhlican) .‘ territory, aided by a few reckless persons of
our own country, to involve the nation in a war with a
neighbouring and friendly power." Reckless, it is true,
are the republicans who would involve their country in a
war with Great Britain, calamitous, if not fatal, as it must

-44
_)*
i •---' '',
Al

prose to both nations. We hope that h niay with equal
truth be alleged of such frontier disturbers of society,
that they are "few" as that they are " reckless." Mr.
Van Buren makes it a topic of congratulation that
redress for the mutual injuries on English and Ame-
rican steam-boats has not been sought by either Go-
ntent of the other. It would give us great surpriie.
no less than pain, to imagine, that for crimes committed
within the jurisdiction of this country there should he no
hdequate redress awarded by British tribunals ; nor
do we believe in the moral possibility of such an ag-
gravation of wrong from such a quarter. But if, as in
the state of. Vermont, within these few weeks, the
laws of the republic be so administered as to amount
to an absolute denial of justice to Great Britain, see in what
a predicament we then are placed—see to whose mercy we
are delivered over. Will the feelings of our provincial
brethren, or of the people of England here at home, be sa-
tisfied with the unsuccessful issue of such a reliance on
words, and forms, and perverted usages, where sub-
stance and spirit are wanting ! The difficulties of
the boundary question, and those, less calculable, aris-
ing out of the revengeful and pugnacious temper of the
borderers on the St. Lawrence, to sty nothing about those
Republican crusaders who speculate on plunder in the shape
of land, may be considered as complicating and enhancing
each other, and as rendering a peaceful solution of the
whole so much the more precarious and qwstionable. For
this danger, which, if real, cannot be remote, we have to
thank the imbecility of Lords Glenelg and Gosford. who
never could muster up sense or decision to promise fairly to 1
the Canadians that which ought to be conceded, or to re-
fuse them firmly and definitively that on which they had no
just right to reckon. Precisely similar is the obliga-
tion of the British empire to Lord Palmerston, for the
inextricable confusion and miserable hopelessness to
which the political interests of the whole eastern hemisphere
are now reduced. Had the incompetent pretender who
has for so many years been dabbling with and distracting
the foreign affairs of England told Mehemet Alb five years
ago, that if he attacked the Porte, Great Britain would be-
come his enemy, the career of fraud and violence by which
that robber bas proceeded so far towards the annihilation
of Turkey on one side, and her prostrate vassalage to Rus-
sia on the other, would have been arrested at once. The
consequence of Lord Palmerston's meanness in deserting
Turkey on pretence that he had been forced to keep four
sail qf men-of-war at the mouth if the Scheldt ! is, that
Mehemet Alli has announced to the same Lord Palmer-
ston his determination to throw off his allegiance to the
Grand Seignoi, thus dismembering the Turkish empire and
overturning the Sultan's throne. Will Lord Palmerston
look on with tameness at thip:atastrophe of his own work ?
We fear he will.—Times.

We cannot understand how it happens that the Minis-
terial press, without the exception of a single paper, article,
line, or word, takes so much care of the reputation of
Lord Durham, and appears so utterly regardless of that
of Lord Melbourne. It is certainly out of the ordinary
course of affairs that a Prime Minister should be sn
entirely deserted ; and we can only account for the ex-
traordinary fact upon one or the other of these suppo-
sitions, that Lord Melbourne's enemies and Lord
Durham's friends in the Cabinet have sought, acquired,
and actually enjoy the advantage of a more powerful
influence over the press of the party than the Pre-
mier himself has thought it necessary to cultivate ;
or that the Ministerial press, bound by habit, if not
by instinct, to support the cause of rebellion, its what-
ever region or whatever form it may appear, admire
and patronize Lord Durham for the contempt with
which he studiously treats the Government at home,
and the alacrity which he has displayed since his arrival in
Canada to assume the functions and exercise the powers
of a Monarch at once independent and despotic. But it is
not the Ministerial Press only that offers the tribute of
adulation to Lord Durham, and shows indifference or hosti-
lity to the character of the Chief Minister of the Crown.
Lord John Russell, if we may judge front his speech of last
night in the House of Commons, in reply to the questions
of Sir E. Sugden, is entirely of the same mind with the Mi-
nisterial Press. The Home Secretary does not disguise
his opinion, or perhaps, we ought rather to say, affects an
opinion which he does not really entertain, that the first
acts of Lord Durham in Canada are capable of jus-
tification, anti that Lord Melbourne's public expression
of the surprise and regret which that conduct had ex-
cited in his mind was gratuitous, rash, or hypocriti-
cal. It is impossible to overlook the very remarkable
coincidence between the speech of Lord John Russell, de-
livered last night in the House of Commons, and the lu-
cubration of the Globe upon the same subject, published a
few hours earlier on the same evening. The Globe is in
raptures on being enabled to a.,:nounce that Lord Durham
has received from certain portions of the Canadian people
sonic such addresses as are perfectly matters of course, on
the arrival of a new Governor in any dependency of the
British Crown. "An address," says our exulting Contem-
porary, " with 2,000 signatures, from QuAsee, was presented
to Lord Durham on the Gth, another from the district of
Montreal on the 00." And from these addresses, contain-
ing not a word but what forms part of the ordinary every-
(lay material of such complimentary effusions. The
Ministerial journal infers that Lord Durham's con-
, uct is immaculate, and that Lord Melbourne, in
censuring it, has proved himself a very foolish or a very
dishonest man. "So much," exclaims, with an air of
ttiumph, the Ministerial Globe, " for the feeling with
which the Canadians have received the Queen's represen-
tative. As for the acts of the new Government, they are
as may be im Tined, but few as yet, and persons must be
alike interested who speak of them with praise nr censure."
And who has spoken of these acts with censure so soy, re
as Lord Melbourne ? Is it even po,sible to imagine any
censure more severe than that which is conveyed when the
chief Minister of the Crown, in his place in P..rliament, and
speaking, as he is understood to speak, in the name of the
entire Government, denounces the conductor the Governor
of a colony as the source or "surprise and regr-t." Now let
us compare the reasoning of the Globe with that of Lord Mel-
bourne's powerful colleague in the Commons. The r .asoning of
the Globe is bad, inasmuch as addresses which are merely
custoinwy, and which do not in any ease imply. while
some they exclude the idea, that the persons who signed
them were c..gnlzaat of Lord Durham's conduct, prove
nothing to the purpose for which the Globe referred to
them. And as the varieties of bad reasoning upon any
subject are ii.tinite, and in the sonic proportion, the coin-
cidence of two independent minds in the same tr kin of had
ti.oilittg is improbable, the identity we are about to esta-
bUsh between the bad reasoning of the Globe and of Lord
John Russell must be the effect of concert and not of aeci-
d•mt. We request the public, after having read the words
of the Globe, to peruse carefully those of the Nrnisterial
leader of the House of Commons. Lord John Russell said
list night that " he was persuaded L..rd Durham had
used his best.discretion in the exercise of the authority that
had been vested in him. The principles en Lor.l
Durham had proceeded had met with general concurrence,
as expressed in addresses front variou: parts of the pro-
vince." This coineid,oce seems to as to supply full evi-
dence 0" a conspiraey among Lord Melbourne's colleagues
io the Cabinet to bolster up Lori Durham at the expense
of the Premier's repot ant. wha'e% er that may be worth,
for intelligence and integrity. The Prime Minister of the
Crown, addressing the Howe of Lords, has explicitly
charged Lord Durham with the offence of appointing
to a high station in his Canadian Government, an in-
dividual, of whose appoiotinent he knew the Prime Mi-
nister disapproved, and w.th the still greater offence of
Navin, deceived a nobleman at the head of the Queens
Government, by an appointment. which excited in the mind
e:f the latter riot only regret but surprise. The Prime
Minister of the Crown, again addr.!ssing the House of
Lords, has explicitly charged Lord Durham with the
offence of arrogating to hitnself supreme and independent
authority, inasmuch as he aithhcla from the Queen's Go-
vernment those explanations of the above appointment, and
of other acts of his administration, which, as a suborainate
' and dependent agent of that Government, it was his duty
to render. If the language of Lord Melbourne in the House
of Lords and the irreconcileable language of Lord John
Russell in the house of Commons, together w ith that of the
whole Ministerial Press, be not evidence of a split, the
public must perceive, as we do, that among such Ministers
e
rat
ocetnsl
tAhpejir;i2erneusitespstnteoti
Ministers
soar:ye. 1
,ideci
indifferent
ttniiesi
crffomearriden:ne
ttoat rntatodol
taiticitietteptaooiisti,msseeiptlntohiclseeistriybotairsitylyttmlh
etophfacatocti
oya.:
operat ion.—Morming Post.

The Duchess of Somerset has Issued cards of in-
vitation for a rural fete, on a splendid scale, at her delightful scat
IVimbledon park, on Friday. the 20th inst., at which the Royal Family
and the Ambassadors Extraordinary will be present : a number of the
juvenile Nobility are also invited.
NEW NOVELS AND ROMANCES.--We are
requested to state that Mr. Coltan, of Great Marlhorough.street, has
just published the following New Works of Fiction, which may be
had at all the Libraries :-1. The Woman of the World. By the
Authoress of "The Diary of a Desennuyee." 3 vo:s. 2. The Mari
About Town. By the Awhor of " Glances at Life." 2 vols. 3. The
Greenwich Pensioners ; a Companion to Mr. Gleig's "Chelsea
Pensioners " 3 vols. 4. Snakspeare and his Friends; or, the Golden
Age of Merry England. An Historical Romanc—.,3 vols. 5, Lights
and Sh:dows of Irish Life. By Mrs. S. C. Hall. 3 vols. 6. Nour.
mahal ; an Oriental Romance. By M. J. Quin, Esq. 3 so„.
7. Outward Bound; or, a Merchant's Adventures. By the Author of
" Rattlin the Reefer." 3 vols. 8. ,The Courtier's Daughter. By Lady
Stepney. 3 vols. 9. Men of Cti.aracter. By Douglas Jerrold, Esq.
3 uith 'Twelve Illustrations. 10. Royston Gower; or, the Days
of g John. By Thomas Miller. 3 vols. 11. Rat? Hall. By
Rob
Sullivan, Esq. 3 volt. 12. Love. By Lady Charlotte Bury.
3 13. Jane Lomax. By the Author of " Brambletye House.'
14. Mary Raymond. By Mrs Gore. 3 vols. 15. Pascal
B no : a Sicilian Story. EJited by Theodore Hook, Esq. 1 vol.
I . Stories of Spanish Lite. Edited by Lieutenant-Colonel Craufurd.
iiiit
2 vo!s. 17. Ethel Churchill; or, the Two Brides. By Miss Landon.
3 vols. 18. Snarley Yow ; or, the Dog Fiend. By Captain Marryat.
3 vole. And 19. The Hussar. By the Author of "The Subaltern,"
Arc 3 vols.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, JULY 9.
The SPEAKER took the chair at Four o'Clock.
BRITISH LEGION:

80

THE SUN. LONDON, TUESDAY, JULY 10, 1838

Mr. Byng, the Comptroller of the Household, appeared at
the har with the answer of her Majesty to the aidress of the
House, agreed to on the Mh of June, praying her Majesty to
use• her good offiees with the Government of Spain for the
purpose of obtaining an amicable and equitable adju:ttnent of
the claims of liritich officers, non-commissioned officers, and
privates of the British Legion. Her Majesty assured her
faithful Commons that her best exertions should be used
for the purpose of carrying their wishes into effect, and that
she had directed instructions to be given to the British Am-
I,aszador at Madrid to effect that object.
MIDDLESEX COUNTY COURTS BILL.

Mr. C R AWFO RD moved the further consideration of the
Middlesex County Courts Bill.
Captain WOOD rose to make the motion of which he had
given notice, that this Bill be recommitted. From the return
that had been laid on the table, it appeared thift, since 1830,
there had been entertained in that Court 30.000 plaints, there
had been 9,000 writs of execution, and 1,100 persona had been
imprisoned under the jurisdiction of this Court. In addition
to all this it was proposed by the present Bill that the law
of landlord sad tenant should be entertained in that Court.
It might, at first sight, be imagined that the jurisdiction of
the Middlesex County Court was raised by this Bill from 403.
to 101. ; such was neither the effect nor the intention of the
Bill—which was, to preserve the County Court in its present
state up to 405., and toVnstitute another Court for suits be-
tween 40s. and 10/., enabling the Crown to appoint a judge.
He ( Mr. Wood) thought this objectionable ; for there should,
in his opinion, be one Court and one presiding Judge. He
should propose various amendments, to which end he moved
the re-committal of the bill.
Lord DUNGANNON seconded the motion.
Mr. FRE S H FIELD said the Hon. Member for Middlesex
(Captain Wood) had himself stated that many thousand cases
had been decided in the Middlesex County Court, from which
it appeared, as Justice Blackstone had stated, that this Court
bad beep of the greatest use in character and reputation.—
( Hear.) The Hon. Member had complained that a separate
Court was to be instituted fur the recovery of debts from 40s.
to 10/. If it had been the same Court, it would have been
objected that new privileges ought not to be conferred upon
the Court. He (Mr. Freshfield) considered it much better
that there should be a separate Court for suits up to
101. ; and he was greatly surprised when he heard
the Member for Middlesex object to a Bill which was calcu-
lated, he believed, to confer more real benefit upon the people
of Middlesex than any Bill which had ever passed regarding
that county.—( Hear. ) Was it not an improper state of
things, when actions had to be brought in the superior
Courts for sums so low as 3/. or 41. ?—(llear, hear.)
Was the House aware that in Middlesex there were pecu-
liar advantages conferred by this Court, and which would bo
extended to other Courts ?—that for several days of the week
the Court was sitting—that for one week in the month the
judge went a circuit, bringing home justice to every man's
door, so that causes could be tried at different places at the
least possible expense. The objection urged was, that Courts
were not presided over by persons of competent knowledge.
Here was a Court presided over by a gentleman of twenty
years standing, against whose judgment not the slightest
doubt was entertained. In answer to the difficulties of his
Hon. Friend, he could only say the Act was to continue for
one year and one Session afterwards, and therefore if the
Government brought in a general measure, that would super-
sede the Act ; and if not, it would come again under the con-
sideration of the House ; and if it had not succeeded, it would
not be renewed.—( Hear, hear.)
Sir B. HALL cordially concurred in everything which
had fallen from the Hon. Member who bad just sat down,
and he could not see that any reason had been brought forward
by the Hon. Member in favour of the recommittal of the Bill.
The Committee had been sitting day after day for three weeks,
and the Bill had come out in as perfect a form as could be
desired.—( Hear.) With regard to the argument adduced by
the Hon. and Gallant Member, he ( Sir B. Hall) could onli
ee
say that he was correct in stating, that out of 30,000 cases,
1,152 persons were
gwoeondtsa.gaiTnshtethobe
jebcotdoyf,
twhhioilustillthweure
tow onlymerreeedy
thatls
againstgre
roo the
.
Although the Bill was not so good as it might he made, it was
most desirable tha. it should be passed, and if it were found to
work well it would lay the groundwork upon which the Go-
vernment could establish a general measure for the country.
( Hear, hear.)

The gallery was then cleared for a division.
The [louse divided, when there appeared—
For the motion 63
For the amendment 47
Majority —l6
.....

Mr. PRAED supported the Bill. He was satisfied that it
would meet with general approval.
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the Howe
divided, when the numbers were—
For the recommitment...
Against it

Majority
The Report was then taken into further consideration.
NATIONAL LOAN FUND BILL.

Sir B. HALL moved the third reading of the above Rill.

After a pause, Mr. P. THOM SON —came running in, and
said, I shall object to the Bill being read a third time. The
Government has a measure in contemplation to amend the
Act of last year, which will govern not only the present
one, but all other Bill.; similarly situated.--( Hear. hear.)
I hope the House will not give the power to one Company
while it does not give it to all. lam perfectly aware that many
Companies have refrained from asking for such powers in ex-
pectation of a general measure, and therefore 1 think it will
be improper to give it to one particular Company. Though
I am aware that there has been a great canvass in favour of this
Bill, still I think it my duty to divide the House upon the
question. . _ _

Mr. O'CONNELL considered that nothing could be more
uflfair than such opposition. Tue Bill was brought in, and
had been postponed on the very same ground, that the Go.
,ernment were going to bring in a general measure. The
Government had obtained le tee to briag in such a Bill, but
that Bill bad not been brought in at the present moment.
Mr. P. THOMSON—It is in the House.
Mr. O'CONNELL—Then it must be in the Right Hon.
Gentleman's pocket—that can be the only way in which
it can Lave found its way into the House.—( Laughter.) If
this Bill be delayed longer, and the Right Honourable Gen-
tleman's Bill is not brought in, it w'ont 'have time to get
through the Lords.—( Hear, hear.) That this is a right
measure, is admitted by the Right Hon. Gentleman, and he
says be is actually going to make it the general law of the
land. If he is going to make it the general law of the land,
this Bill will not be necessary. If the Government carry the
general Bill, that moment the promoters of this Bill under-
take to stop in the lends. The Company reqaire nothing but
that their credit irs should have the power of suing
them. and th it they may have a remedy against each other for
defaults corn nitted by one partner—that is all the Bill seeks.
Ought that Bi'l to he prevetited from going to the House of
Lords, whe e the pirties undertake (and I undertake for
them) to st ip the Bill, as soon as it is manifest a Government
Bill is likely to pass ? This is the second time we have dis-
cussed this Bill. Oa the ft rmrr occasion we were promised
Government Bill before this Bid went through Committee.
That Bit has tint yet been brought before the Ileusevalthough
the other Bill has arrive.' at its last st..,re, and under
those e,reilinsteme a. I hope the House will allow it to pass.
Mr. WA ',LACE said. a clause that had been very much
objected to—the non liability elause—wes not in this Bill, as
eas gene aily supp std. There had brew very geed reasons
stated by the Hun. Member for Dublin iii favour of the Bill ;
and, i oteithstandieg he awe d with the Right Hon. Gentle.
loan the President of the Board of Trade as t the general
Astir;
10:C801:NELL said the
measure, yvt he felt hound, under all the chew-lista:ices, to
seine-et the Bill for 11. e tires ea.
the Bill passed, execution could at once be issu,d a hen the
halm had been eub•tariti die!. was con plete, and if
to obtain a
remedy which no Ccenpany had hitherto e
and he thouelit that was nut' quite right. 'lle Goren.
G DEN said this Company was endeavouring
to
meat had deelered it to be their iiitewion to bring in
a gent led Bill up ni the subject t; and when tildt Bill
etas introdecel, he should be ready to' give it his b st
ration. Lt the ect i'e
nothing, nor
tesnieools'rs'eu:tddtleibes(Yithrßnej other(
kt?:C'
niCa
P(nlY1:1'Pl)1:1'111gY, f which he knew a
nd
on that ground he should
Mr. PRA ED said the Bill did not give
_this Conli""Y
an advantage over other Companies, though it did give
that Company something not possessed by others, Which
was a facility to the members of that Company to sue one
anothi r. The whole question lay in a nutshell. An Act had been
passed, intended to give such facility—it was found not to
have that effect. The Company came, therefore, to that
itohiel
uproawbei
er ofG
esnutilnegmaneae(hMort.hepr..,
hloN",siee: sae giließdiglfsotr
Thomson) e you ought to have it—tillepffaCesesoterndet:l.die.sfoolluo:h.he:
to have it. I have a Bill in my pocket giving this power to
all Cuinpanies—therefore you shall tint have it."
oni p measureani es , afterwardsliat i U this B:11
passed,
'poawn•lt'r a tgoenuellraCl
On the other hand, if the general measure did not
great benefit would in the case of this Company effected.ligoltpngasst,
a.
Mr. HUM E said he had known several Bills passed
giving the same power as this Bill conferred. He hadob-
jected, indeed, to partial legislation, and had urged the Go
vernment to tiring in a general measure ; but was it fair if
a
the Government would not take that course, to ato 'ost
useful Bill ? He thought the proposal that the Bill should lie
stopped in the Lords, if the general Bill were brought forward,
a very fair and reasonable one; and he hoped the House
would agree to the third reading of the Hear.)
earlytl in the
Right
Sir 137 II AL L was quite ready to agree that the Bill
be stopped the other House, if the general measure were
shensrsoi,dmu.caednd the The Bill
.rletaattilibnegenpebsrtopuognehdt,se
inbeveearuy
Hon. Gentleman asked for a delay of three weeks to bring in
seconda
gent rah Bill. Six weeks had paesed —(llear)—and now,
at the close of the session almost, the Government opposed
the third reading of the Bill.. Was not that a bad ease?
Mr. P. THOMSON said, after what had fallen from the
lion. Baronet, he must say a word in explanatiote He stated
al, the very first that he would give this Bill his opposition, in-
esenuch as he thought it would be improper for a special Bill
of this kind, to pass. The House might decide as it pleased,
hut he considered himself bound, after what had taken place
eith respect to other Companies, to prevent, if poseible, the
Passing of this Bill. With respect to the Bill which he had
introduced, it was not his fault that it had not been proceeded
vi its more rapidly.
Sir J. GRAHAM said that it was impossible for any one
to be more opposed to partial legislation than himself. But
with respect to the present Bill, the period of the session at
which they had arrived, required it to receive a favourable
consideration. If he had any hope that the Bill of the Hon.
Gentleman opposite would pass during the present Session,
he Would not vote for the third reading of this Bill ; but, con-

SURVEY OE TILE PENINSULA

sidering the advaneed period of the Ses,ion, he was convinced
it could not pass, and therefore should vote for the third read-
ing of the nreSent Bill.
Mr. FRESH FIE LD said it was the right of a creditor
to haw., his execution in any proportion he could against
the different members of a Company. If 100 members of a
Company paid 10/. each more than their share, each of these
100 members must bring his 100 actions, not against one
individual, but against every member of the Company,
to recover from that member his particular contribution to
this very payment by the individual member. Where the
relation of partnership subsisted it required to be dealt with
in a (lilf3rent way from actions at common law, and he hoped
the Bill to he brought iii by the Hon Member would provide
for the difficulties which the present Bill did not provide for,
hut iendel to ineretve.

Mr. O'CONNE Li, said there was no remedy against part-
ners but by a bill in equity ; and he appealed to the Honour-
able Member whether he had the heart to drive an many of
his fellow-creatures into a Cow t of Equity.—( Laughter.)
If one of the partners died during the proceedings, fresh pro.
ceedings should be instituted, and the result was that there
was actually no remedy at all. Was that specie; of legisla-
tion to be continued?—( Hear, bear.) He hoped not, and
that the good sense of the House would be evinced by its sup-
port of the present measure.—( Hear, hear. )
After a few words from Sir E. SUGDEN,
Strangers were ordered to withdraw, and the House divided,
when the numbers were :

For the third reading
Against it 3B
Majority -71
The Bill was then read a third time and passed, amid loud
cheering-.
ASHBY-DE-LA-ZOUCH SMALL DEBTS BILL.
This Bill was read a third time and passed.
HARTLEPOOL, DOCK AND RAILWAY.
Lord DUNGANNON moved the further consideration of
the Report of the Hartlepool Dock and Railway Bill.
Mr. CAYLEY could not agree to the motion, and moved,-
as an amendment, that the Bill be further considered that day
three months.

The report was then ordered to be engrossed.
Petitions were presented by Sir W. JAMES and another
Hon. Member, praying for increased ecclesiastical provision
for the inhabitants of Canada ; also against further grants to
the College of Maynooth.
PROTESTANT DISSENTERS' REGISTRY.
Mr. BAINES asked if a report had been received from the
Commission which bad been appointed to examine into the
validity of a certain reg'stry of Protestant Dissenters ? And
whether it would he laid before the House this Session ?
Lord J. RUSSELL was understood to answer affirmatively
both questions.

PENSION COMMITTEE.
Captain PECHELL asked when the report of the Pen-
sions' Committee would be received, and if the evidence
would be printed?

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCLIEQUER'SVepIy,
as far as we understood, wag, that he could not give any
decisive ans►cer to either question.
CANADA.

Sir E. SUGDEN wished to put some questions to the
Noble Lord (J. Russell) respecting Canada. The Act passed
this session suspended the functions of the Legislative
Council and Legislative Assembly, and authorized the Go-
vernor to appoint a Special Council. By a dispatch pub-
lished it was stated that twenty-one persons had been
poin el for a Special Council, eleven of whom were
French Canadians, two others natives, and the remainder
of them, he supposed, British subjects ; and a Session was
held in which twenty-six laws were passed. Early in May
Sir John Colborne dissolved the Council, and by a dispatch of
about the same date stated the satisfaction he had experienced
from the unanimity and good conduct of the Council, and
that he believed their ordinances had been received
with the greatest approbation. He wanted to know whether
Government bad authorized, by instructions, Lord Durham
not simply to appoint an Executive Council, but also to re-
move the existing Special Council, and to appoint a new
Special Council ; and whether the Noble Lord objected to lay
on the table of the House the instructions on these subjects, or
either of them, with other papers, if necessary. He also wanted
to know whether the Noble Lord was aware how many persons,
and whom bad been appointed to the two Councils—whe-
ther they exceeded five in number, and were the same persons!
And:the question was, whether the Government had abandoned,
and whether it appeared by any instructions to Lord Durham,
an intention was expressed in the despatch from Lord
Glenelg during the discussions in the House upon the Bill,
that he was to have a Convention of the States or Delegates,
in order to ascertain the opinions of Upper and Lower
Canada.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL said he would endeavour to
answer the questions put by the Hon. Gentleman to the best
of his power. With regard to the Executive Council and the
necessity for special instructions, on that point the Governor
having the power to appoint for a time such persons to be
members of the Executive Council as he should think fit, Lora
Durham had made use of that power by summoning to his
Council certain persons whose names had appeared. The
number of those persons was five, and all of them connected
in some way or other with the Government of Lower Canada.
With respect to the appointment of the Special Council, Lord
Durham had authority given him to appoint a number of per-
sons, not less than five by his own Act, to form pelt of that
Special Council. The papers which were about to be given to
the other House of Parliament he should have no objection to
produce. The Right Hon. Gentleman made a correct in-
ference when he said that as Lord Durham had thought it ex-
pedient to call persons to his Executive Council not connected
with the parties in the province, he would probably follow the
same principle in the selection of his Special Council.
With respect to the further question of the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman, whether the instructions that had been laid on the
table were Abandoned, his answer was, that these instructions
remained in the same situation, and there had been no
variation or abandonment of them.—( Hear, hear.) Ile was
persuaded Lord Durham had used his best discretion in the
••xercise of the authority that had been vested in him. The prin-
ciples on which Lord Durham had proceeded had met with
general concurrence, as expressed in adkesses from various
parts of the provinces.
Mr. HUME thought it would be much 'fairer for the consi-
deration of this question if the Right Hon. Gentleman would
move for the production of papers. That wou'd give many an
opportunity of commenting on wuat had fallen from the Right
Hun. Gentleman, because he had made many observations
well worthy of consideration, especially when it was recollected
the Right Hon. Gentleman and his party had Concurred with
Ministers in giving arbitrary power to the Government.
Lord J. RUSSELL (in answer to a further question from
Sir E. Sugden) said he had no objection to the production
of the letter signed by Mr. C. Buller,

MORNING SITTINGS.
of
DUNGANNON asked whether it was the intention
of the Government to introduce for discussion measures of im-
P.,rtanee, similar for instance to the Irish Tithe Bill, at the
morhing sittings, because it was next to impossible for Mem-
bers who had many demands on their time to attend in that
[louse.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL thought it was perfectly possible
fur all Members to attend the HouQe from twelve to four.

Mr. LEAbik—;ished to put a question to the Secretary_
at_ War (Lord llomick ) in regard to c, rtaia survey's of the
Peninsula, which told been made at the close of the Peninsular
war by Captain Mitchell. These surveys had been made
at an expense of 5,0001 t the country. but had never been in
any putmc office ; and Colonel Islopier had been refused by Sir
C. orge Murray (alto he had been told had possession of the
surveys), permission to inspect them ; and it now appeared
that these surveys were to be publishzd by private speculation.
Was this a correct statement?

Lord HOWICK said a!1 the informationhe could give upon
the subject was contained in a return already before the House.
The surveys had not been made through the War-office, nor
had they ever pass..d ti rough that office.
Mr. LE A.DE R said, if he could get no information on the
subject, he should give an early notice respecting it.
Mr. O'CONNE LI, asked if the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer could furnish no information respecting this expenditure
o 5,000/. of the p tblic mnney ; representing, as he did, the
Exchequer of the period when those surve)s were made.
Sir HENRY HARDING E believed that the transaction
to which this discussion had reference took place some 22 or
23 years ago. He denied that it was not the business of the
Secretary of War to look to these matters.
Viscount HO WIC K had not refused to give all the infor-
mation he could procure. He had laid Sir George Murray's
statement on the table of the House. He had refrainedF from
making any comment in reference to that distinguished offi-
cer ; but he must say that he thought this transaction had been
highly irregular. And lie must say that these maps, paid for
at the public expense, ought to have been placed in some pub-
lic office.
After some further observations from Sir HENRY HAR-
D/NGE, Lord Howtce, and Mr. Hume, the conversation
dropped.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved
the House should resolve itself into a Committee of Supply,
In the Committee the Right Honourable Gentleman moved,
amongst others, the following vote. The sum of 14,7001.
for making good the extraordinary and immediate expenses
incurred under cortain treaties with certain maritime powers,
for the purpose of suppressing the traffic in slaves.
Mr. HUME wished to know how many vessels had been
seiz .d and condemned under the authority of the Courts of
mixed Commission, together with the number of the slaves ro-
captured on board the said vessels.
Lord l'A LM E RSTON should have no objection to the
production of the information required, if the Hon. Mvinber
would only take the trouble to move for it.
The vote was agreed to.
107,993/. foe the salaries of our Consuls-General and Vice
Consuls in ports abroad.

—Mr. HUME obje,:ted to two items of charge under this
head : the one, the charge made for chaplains in these con-
sulates; the other, the charge for the building of chapels and
churches there. The grants had in most cases been made to
chapels and churches of the Establishment, notwithstanding
there was one-fourth, or often more than a fourth, of the resi-
dent inhabitants of the place of the Presbyterian or of the
Catholic persuasion. He certainly thought this estimate might
be reduced full 5,0001. on account of chaplains, and 3,50D1.
on account of chapels.

Lord PALMERSTON said the grants alluded to were
based on a more liberal principle, embracing both Presbyterian
and Catholic residents. In future it was intended that no ap-
plication at our consulates for contributions from the public

purse should be ametded to, unless the moiety of the esti-
mated expense were actually not only subscribed, but paid.
up in cash.
Sir ROBERT PEEL asked if the prohibition against our
Consuls being engaged in commercial dealings were intended
to be made general.
Lord PALMERSTON said the prohibition was not in-
tended to be general, or to include those consulates where the
Consuls were not political agents, as in the eases of our
Consuls in North America, and also some of those in the
southern estates of that great continent. Where they were
mere agents for commerce, it could not be implied that their
employmen: ought to disqualify them from being permitted to
enter into such commercial engagemeats. •
Sir ROBERT PEEL remarked it had been a matter of
objection by the three great powers of the north of Europe
that this country meditated sending a resi lent consul to the
State of Cracow, and wished to know if it were determined
by the present Government to send a consul to that place.
Lord PALMERSTON replied in the negative.
9.055/. for the salaries and defraying the expenses of the
inspectors of facories. _ _

Mr. SL ANEY believed the Act had been most imperfectly
carried into operation. The children front nine years 0: age
to thirteen were, by the Act, entitled to enjoy certain hours of
excmption from labour, in order that they might be at liberty
.to obtain a share of education in public schools. The inspec-
ton were not bound to inquire into the fact whether they re-
ceived that education or not. Had the Noble Lord prepared
any fresh instructions to the inspectors upon this point?
Lord JOHN RUSSELL had been assures that a great
improvement had taken place as far as respected the appropria-
tion of the leisure time of the children more strictly to purposes
of education.

Lord ASHLEY believed there could be no hope enter tained
of the strict performance of this important duty unless the
number of the Inspectors was increased.
Mr. BAINES said their income hardly ever exceeded 3501.
a-year. It was not singular, therefore, that a man so circum-
stanced should attempt to be a pluralist.
Mr. BROTH ERTON said the system as it existed under
the present law was ineffective, and defeated by fraud and con-
nivance.

Mr. GOULBURN said that to render the duty of their
officers effective, frequent travelling through such districts was
absolutely necessary, in order to ascertain whether the law was
violated.

Mr. WALKER strenuously recommended the abolition of
the migration agencies altogether.
Mr. HINDLE Y concurred in the recommendation.
The vote was agreed to.
6,0001. to defray the salaries of Intpctors of Prisons.
Agreed to.
On the proposal of a vote of 3,7231. to defray the expenses
of the several branches of the Mint, a conversation ensued.
Mr. LABOUCHERE was happy to have an opportunity
of doing justice to the very distinguished artist to whom the
execution of the Coronation medal had been entrusted. Of
the abilities of that aentleman the medal executed by him on
the occasion of the Coronation of George IV., was a sufficient
proof. Though he admitted that the medal for the present
Coronation had not been executed in such a manner as the
high reputation of Signor Pistrucci would have led them to
expect, he was glad to have the opportunity of stating that he
believed the deficiency to have been occasioned by an accident
which had occurred to him within the last two weeks, and the
effects of which had been an almost total deprivation of sight.
He himself knew that Signor Pistrucci felt most deeply the
deficiency, for that gentleman had written to him to say that
he felt that the work was not such as it ought to have been.
Mr. HUME thought it a great pity that the medals had not
been put into the pot again.—( A laugh.) He himself had got
one of those which were being sold about the streets for a
penny, and he declared that part of the reverse was better
than the coronation medal The lion's head on that medal
was most disgraceful—( A laugh)—it was melancholy to think
that the heads of the office should have allowed such a thing to
issue. He now begged to ask why the mint could not issue
silver pieces to the value of 2d. or 3d. ? They would be very
convenient to the public.
Mr. LABOUCHERE did not think that there would arise
any convenience to the public from the issue of silver coins
below the value of 4d. With respect to the Coronation medals,
he thought that Isis Hon. Friend had borne rather hard on the
artist. He wished to mention a circumstance very creditable
to that gentleman, namely, that the amount expended on the
medal executed for the Coronation of George I V. had been re-
paid to the public by the sale of that medal.
Mr. WARBURTON suggested that perhaps if the Com-
mittee of a former year on the mint had been re-appointed,
they would not now have to make this complaint.
Mr. LABOUCHERE had been anxious to renew-the in-
quiry, but had not done so because of the illness of one of the
principal officers of the mint, whose suggestions would have
been of the greatest value for the report.
Mr. SLANE Y suggested the propriety of issuing a smaller
gold coin than the half-sovereign ; for instance to the value of
5s or 6s. Bd.

The vote was then agreed to.
The next, of 83,2201. for retired allowances and compensa-
tions, being put,

Cl •
Mr. FIUME protested against the superannuation system.
an officer in the public service ought to be paid an ainp_l
salary, and oualit to insure his life. •
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
Right Hon. Gentleman had forgotten what had been already
done in that way, especially by the system of making parties
contribute to a fund for their own superannuation.
The vote was agreed to, as was also a vote of 1,850/. for
the National Vaccine Establishment.

The vote of 3,0001. for the Refuge for the Destitute having
been proposed,

Mr. HUME asked how man; inmates there were in that
t:stitutinn ?

Mr. CHARLES LUSHINGTON Faid that the number
of persons annually admitt.d was 200.
Mr. HUME asked what was the amount of private sub-
scriptions ?

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said 2,0001.
Mr. C. LUSHINGTON begged 0 correct the Chancellor
of the Exchequer; the best account of voluntary contributions
was 342/.

Mr. HUME said that that circumstance showed how like
this institution w:is to some of the I►ish cha►ities for which
grants used to he made. It was, in fact, cnti►ely a public
charity, the cost of it being 5,000/ yearly, and of that sum
only 3421. was afforded by private subscription.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
the Society had private property, stock, and legacies, which
made the private annual fund 2,0001.
Mr. HUME Objected s►rongly to the practice of receiving
hardened offenders into the institution.
Mr. PEASE said that the records of the establishment
fully showed what had been the good which it had accotn-
plished. _ _

.
Mr. HUME thought that they ought to reduce the vote to
the amount of the private subscription, lie would propose to
give 2,000/. this year, with the understanding that next year
the sum should he 3421.
Dr. LUS INGTON said that when this establishment
had been first formed the persons sent to it were selected, not
by the Committee, but by the Magistrates. Theie had hoer'
lost to the institution within the last year no less than 'l,ol'ol,
in consequence of the statute of mortmain, the testators being
ignorant, that it they charged their bequests on their mixed
real and pers,mal estate the bequests became void. If the pro.
posed grant w, re not made the persons who would otherwise
be supported by the institution must become a charge to the
public, and perhaps plunderers of the town to the inhnit in-
jury of the morality of the rople.
The vote was agreed to.
The next vo.e of 3 0731. for the expense of maintaiaing
criminal lun itics, was azreed to.

On the Tile of 4,sool,f,rTrotestant d;ssenting Ministers,
French refugees, &c.,
►Mr. GIBBON wished to know whether the Prot•s:ant
Dissenters had not remonstrated against that part of this vote
which concerned them, as an inn ingement of the voluntary
principle; and if so, why it wai suffered to rem.iin in the
estimate.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
many of the Protestant Dissenters certainly did object to the
grant, but as the recipients themselves did dot feel it inconsis-
tent with the voluntary principle he did not cor.ceive that he
would be justified in withholding it.
Mr. HINDLEY thought honest and coimientious Di.;.
settlers would not receive this money ; and he would p,opo3e
that the amount-1,6951. should be deluctecl from the vote.
Mr. BAINES said the grant had been originally a gift
from George L, out of his pr►vate funds, to the Dissenters, to
whom he considered himself under great obligations, and upon
an alteration bein, made in the Civil List, the grant was
transferred to the Treasury. Under these circumstances the
trustees did not feel it a violation of the voluntary principle to
receive that which had originally been a voluntary gift from a
Sovereign. He confessed he did not think the justification
sufficient ; but thought that when the grant was transferred to
the State, the trustees would have done better to decline re.
ceiving it. He knew also that there was a very general objec-
tion to it amongst the Protestant Dissenters, and if the ques-
tion went to a division he should vote for the discontinuance
of the grant. If the 1,6001. were excluded from the vote, the
objects of the benevolence would be no sufferers, because be.
fore a month was over the amount would be made up to them
by voluntary contributions.
Mr. HUM disapproved of the vote, and if his Hon. Friend
the Member for Ashton, did not take the sense of the House
for its reduction, he (Mr II.) should do so.
Mr. WALLACE said the Dissenters of Scotland had no
wish to receive a shilling of the public money.
After some conversation the Committee divided, and the
numbers were:—

For the grant
For the amendment
Majority
The next vote was 35,9001. for secret service money.
Mr. WIL L I A MS shoUld mote that it be reduced to 20,000/.
Mr. WALLACE thought there ought to be no secret ser-
vice money at all in a free country.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
distribution of this money did not take place without groat
-responsibility, for it was administered under the oaths of the
Secretary and Under-Secretary of State. In 1828 the amount
of the recent service money was 52,0001, but it had been gra-
dually reduced to the present vote of 35,900/. With regatd
to any portion of it being expended for election purposes, it
was impossible, and could not be done without the committal
of perjury of the foulest kind. In fact, the secret service
money expended at home did not exceed the sum of 500/.
Mr. HUME said the question was whether any secret ser-
vice money was required at the present time, and if any money
was expended in this way the objects for which it was so ex-
pended should be made known to the public. He thought the
term was only a cloak for improper proceedings.. He could
not vote with his Hon. Friend (Mr. Williams) fur a reduction

in the amount of the g ant, but was prepared to vote against
any grant on this head w hatever.
After a few words from .M. P. HOWA R
Comm'ttee divided, when there appea....ed—
For the am ‘ndment
Against it
Majority in favour...of the vote —9B
Which was then agreed to.
0.1 the question that 197,7961. be granted to &nay the ex-
pense of staionary for the several departments of the Govern-
ment, and for printing for the two Houses of Parliament,
Mr. NV. S. O'BRIEN suggested to the Chancellor of the
Exchequer that a considerable aving on this head might be
of cted by considering the inform ttion necessary to be given
in many of the parliamentary papers and returns.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said,
the principle of condensation was effected as much as possible,
but there were limits, beyond which it could not be carried.
Mr. WALLACE was of opinion that returns ought to be
submitted to an officer, in order that they might be abrevi-
ate(' and made intelligible to Honourable Members, and that
officer ougl,t to be responsible to the Home far the due per-
fo:anance of his duty.
After a few words from Sir ROBERT INGLIS,
Mr. HUME said the present estimate was 50 per cent.
less than under the old system. He wished that a similar
p..ine pie was applied to the printing of Acts of Parliament.
which at present cost 300 per cent. more than they would
do if the present monopoly of printing with respect to them
did not exist.
Sir E. SUGDEN objected to having results and not facts,
which he desired on Parliamentary Papers, and returns were
facts, in order that he might draw his own results.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER agreed
with the Right Hon. Gentleman that it was desirable Hon.
Members should read the Bills rather than the breviates ; but
still breviates were good things, because many Hon. Members
read them, when else they would have read nothing at all.--
(.Laughter. )
Mr. HUME saw a credit of 4,000/. on this estimate on
account of Parliamentary papers sold. Now any person un-
der the new regulation could buy the papers printed by order
of the House of Commons, but not so the papers of the House
of Lords ; he was of opinion they ought both to be accessible
to the public.
The CHANCELLOR' f the EXCHEQUER agreed in
opinion with the Hon. Member for Kilkenny ; he would men-
tion the circumstance in the proper quarter; the papers [minted
by both Houses ought, undoubtedly, to be alike accessible to
the public.
Mr. LUCAS suggested that Parliamentary Papers ought
to be allowed to be sent postage free.
Several Hon. Members were of opinion that Acts of Far-
Lament ought to he more freely circulated, in order that the
people at large might know what the laws were.
Sir EDWARD SUGDEN suggested to the Chancellor of
the Exchequer the propriety of hot embarking in the sale of
the papers of the House of Lords, until it was determined that
the House of Commons had a right to sell its own papers.
Mr. O'CONNELL deprecated the language of the Right
Hon. and Learned Gentleman, coming, as it did from so high
a legal authority.
Sir EDWARD SUGDEN had expressed no opinion on
the subject, although he had one. The question was sub judect,
and therefore all he hal done was to suggest delay.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL contended that the House
of Commons had the privilege of publishing its own papers;
on that subject he had never entertained any doubt ; but it was
a different thing to say that they should republish the papers
of the House of Lords which could alone be done by the autho-
rity of their Lordships. At the same time he wished their
Lordships would fol Low the example set them by the House of
Commons in this respect.
Colonel SIBTHORP complained that so large a sum s$
4,0001. should be charged for stationery for the Poor Las
Commissioners.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said what-
ever opinion the gallant officer, or others, might entertain of
'he Poor Law Commission, this, he thought, would be admit-
ted by all, that the proceedings of the Commissioners should
Le made as public as possible, which could not be done with-
(ut incurring considerable expense tinder the heads of sta-
tionery and printing. If the proceedings of the Commis,
sioners were correct, the expense was as nothing ; but, if LIP
correct, they were before the world, and immediate attention
would be drawn to them.
The vote was then agreed to.
On the question that 13,0001. be granted to defray the ex-
pense of law charges,
Mr. HUME begged to ask, seeing 1,000/. fixed as the ad-
ditional salary of the Parliamentary Counsel to the Treasury,
who it was that enjoyed that office and salary ?
The CHANCELLORof the EXCHEQUER—The gen-
tleman filling that office was Mr. William Harrison, well. known
to many Hon. Members of that House.
Mr. AGLIONBY wished that, instead of there being $
Parliamentary Counsel to the Treasury, there should be $
Parliamentary Commission appointed to decide upon all Bills
to be submitted to Parliament.
Mr. WARBURTON asked whether this estimate contained
the expense of all law work done for the Treasury?
The
CHANCELLOR
recodftoth. e EXCHEQUER replied ill
ffici
s then
a
TArvimozetivwea.
The next item was, that a sum of 46,6931. be granted to
her Majesty, to defray the charge of the convict establishinentn
on board the hulks.
Mr. PEASE thought that no convicts should be sent on
board the hulks, unless there was a reasonable prospect of
their being shipped off to the penal settlements ; and Ins con.
tended that the present system was fraught with the greatest
evils.
The vote was agreed to.
The next sum proposed was 235,000/. to defray the charge
of maiteaining convicts in New South Wales and Var Die'
men's Land.
Next 20,000/. to defray the expense of captured negroci
liberated in Africa.
Agreed to.
The next vote was 5,000/. for cleaning, binding, and se'
pairing the public records.
After a little conversation the vote was agreed to.
20,000/. for the erection of school houses, was agreed 10
after a few words from Mr. W Y S F., who deprecated the grant
as one of a very contemptibly small character.
T% • nsxt vote of 10,000/. for school-houses in Scctland
was agreed to, after a short convvrsation.
The CHAIRMAN then reported progress, and the House
resumed.O
r.
u)elNcrt,
Lord
nhwUnea AAut i
ItLNzsbßliGel
ArITeRCNaiTdANo'oaroRNINO thirdmNho
poi
ineonidFsgee
ti.stlhNeheicia.Etott.
nhNidai
niareßydddEll
stet,
ißhoaxdveSei
nii:Bouatt,solti
ot
.Lha
unstLh.:i.
amend'
Bill.en
The House divided. The numbers were
For .h • third reading
Against it
Majority ....................... —49
Oil the question hieing put that this Bill do pass,
Colonel SIB•I'HOIZI, sail he was determined to oppose
it as long as Imp )3sibly could, and he therefore moved fur alt
aljournmea' of the House.
The gallery was then cleared for a division, and the nun:-
hers were_...
For the adjournment...
Against it
Nagatihnesnt tcloten
sued, ji
toeudr tit tot tpe 1,14t.p
th3e7rasg,
- 51
ore
Mr. WA RlNliliaiL"rTitOY
in! of the Bill until Wednesday next.
The soLICI roR.G ENE it AL obtained leave to bring
in a Bill to provide for the custody of public records.
The other Ordcrs_of the Day were disposed of, and the
House adjourned at a quarter past one o'clock until twelve
o'clock this day.

I

li HOUSE OF LORDS, JULY 9.
the House met at Pour o'clock, when Lord Lismorn was
introduced by Lords Howard de Walden and Gltnelg, when
lie took the oaths and his seat, upon his elevation to the lititish
Peerage.
The LORD CHANCELLOR resumed his seat on the Woolsack
at Five o'clock.
The Duke of CLEVELAND presented numerces peti-
tions from the county of Durham and the Noith Riding ot the
county of York, praying for the immediate aboliti in of the
apprenticcship in tivo West Indic!.

. THE UNIVERSITIES.
d the Noble Marquis. the Chancellors of the
The Earl of RADNOR v.islted to ask a question of the
Noble Duke an
Utii:erities of Oxford and Carxbiidge, and be hoped that he
'Llight be allowed to premise it with a few observations.
ast year the House was led to believe that the
Universities were intending to make areEt alterations
in their statutes—the Colleges had done nothing, and the Uni-
versity in Convoca•iun had done somethirg that actually
amounted to nothing. After stating that ire had been de-
ceived, he begged t.e ask the two heads of the Universities
what had been done to carry out the promistrs of last yelr ?
The Duke of WELLINGTON complained that tho Noble
Earl had not correctly quoted the dismission of last year.
The House last Session threw out the Bill proposed by the
Noble Earl, and then he had stated that tlie work of revising
the statutes of the University was already in operation. The
Noble Earl had not only asked a question, but bad answered
it himself, and to comment upon what lad been
done by the University of Oxford. The Noble Earl had not
only commented upon what had been done with his usual AC-
zumen, but he had been prompted by the Noble Baron, the
Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster. Now, he thought
the Universities were entitled to look for encouragement
and support from her Majesty's Ministers against any
such question as had been put—( Hear. hew., hear)_..i.o
place of -one of them assisting
enemies. He thought the Noble Eart had answered his own
and prompting one of' their
question, but he bad no objection to say that the University of
Oxford commenced to review the Statutes, but he refused
to give any other answer. He called upon the Hc.uso to allow
the heads of the University
of their own Statutes, and
%, to go on in the consideration
the House did not approve of the changes they it :id made, then
to
they had finaltv done so, if
would be the time for iheir Lordships' interference,—( Cheers.)
rq
but in a tone of voice
The Marquis CA MDEN then addressed their Lordships.
audible tit thee gallery. which rendered what, he said nearly in-
to say that
The Noble Marc,uis was understood
th revision of the statutes of the University of
Cambridge was commenced after the discussion of last session,
and that considerable progress had been made in the task ;
lug
tFat some difficulties were naturally to be expected in the in-
vestigation which retarded it.
The Bishop of LONDON said in consequence of the con-
fusion which prevailed in the House be could hear but little of
what the Noble Marquis had stated. As regarded one of the
Colleges at Cambridge, he (the Bishop of London) was hinttolf
aware that the investigation had made some considerable.% pro-
gress, with a view to the revision of its statutes. •