The Sun.
London, England, 1854-06-30 00:00:00

EVENING, JUNE SO. 1854.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT'

HOUSE OF LORDS-(YESTERDAY.)

The House met at rive o'clock.
The Right Rev. Lord AUCKLAND, the new Bishop of
Bath and Wells, took the oaths and his seat, on his ele-
vation to the episcopal bench.
The Wells and Fakenham Railway ; the Caledonian
Railway (Lesmahagow Branches, &c.) ; the Caledonian
(Wishaw and Coltness Railway, &c.) Bills were read a
second time.
The Bagenalstown and Wexford Railway (N0.,2), and
the Ambergate, Nottingham, and Boston and Eastern
Junction Railway (Extension to Nottingham) Bills were
read a third time and passed.
ELECTRIC TELEGRAPH COMPANY (No. 2) ,

.
•nent viceroyeor under an independent soitereiin, nearly''
related to the pregent royal Family of England. (Cheers.)
Heebelieved that under such a constitution it would be
possible to uphold the monarchical government upon that-
great continent, and to establish there a free monarchy,
as free as that of this country, and even freer still with
regard to public influence. He believed that under such
a government the connexion between the mother country
and Canada might subsist for ages to come, with no
mutual jealousies, but with an ever-increasing friend- 1
ship ; and that a real and substantial benefit would be I MUSE OF COMMONS—(YESTERDAY.)
bestowed upon America by the maintenance there of "a I The SPEAKER took the ehair at twelve o'clock.
ilered and
tree and. regulated monarchy. (Hear, hear.) But if the - PRIVATE BUSINESS.
bill were passed, no such a state of things could subsist ; The Lords amendments to the following bills were con-
for the elective council would probably soon be followedagreed to :--Birmingham Canal Navigations,
by an elective governor, and Canada would rapidly amendment Birmingham Improvement, Bradford Waterworks (an
require more republican institutions. (Hear, hear.) ton and
be proposed), Chesterfield. Market, Darling-
Still he did not ask them entirely to reject the bill ; but Lancashire, Barnard Castle Railway, Dowlais Railway ; East
Lancashire and Yorkshire, and Manchester
"he did ask them to postpone it until another session, so and SouthportaPt7
tElst Suffolk Railway, Edinburgh
that the opinion of both houses of Parliament, of the Police and Improvement, Shrewsbur and Chester Rail-
country, and of the colony itself might be deliberately way, South Devon Railway,'
South Yea Company,Win
taken and truly ascertained. He begged to move that 'cheater and Petersfield Bed • ( Win-
taken Improvement an
the bill be committed on that day three months. amendment to bo propesed). '
The following hills
The Duke of NEWCASTLE did not complain of the —Guarantee
British were read a third time and passed :
Association N
course adopted by the noble earl in opposing the bill Titan Railway (Queen's consent, ( o. 2) ; Jerorth Metropo-
now instead of on the second reading ; but, on the other
signified)• Paisley on behalf of the Crown,
dti;)ha,l4
eo Waterworks (No. 2) ; Potteries, Bid-
hand, he could not admit that he had himself acted its- title) : West 11,1ognedt000naRoAsiclervay e Rat coney Railway (new
properly in laying the bill upon the table sub silentio, and Farnborough); Leeds Northern Palace Railway (Bromley
Railway.
seeing that he had followed the ordinary rule of their PETITIONS.
lordships' house. Re would admit that he had been in Several petitions were presented against various clauses
error in not placing the papers sooner before them, but in the Miran:min Act, and in favour of a restricted sale of
intoxicating liquors on Sundays.
he had been under the impression that they had been COAISION LAW PROCEDURE BILL.
presented to both houses, instead of being only pre- On the motion for going into committee on this bill,
rented to the House of Commons. The reason he had Sir E. PERRY moved that it be an instruction to the
not laid the draft before, their. lordships was because his committee to extend the provisions of the bill to her Alas
object was only to pass a permissive bill, and not to jesty's Superior Court in India. The object of the bill was
a most important one, and the only objections that any 1
adopt the draft measure ; and he did not therefore think reformer could take to' it were that its rinciples weeetw
it necessary or right to produce the proposed measure. be 'confined to Westminster Hall. The extensionp of were
The arguments of the noble earl might have been appro- bill to India would be greatly esteemed by the inhabitants
priately followed by a motion hr the total rejection of of thatfdietant dependency, who, with regard to the ad-
the measure ; but he did not believe a mere adjourn- ministration of the law, looked upon us in the light of
ment was at all necessary, for the subject had already benefactors.
been carefully considered by the people of Canada. The Mr. PHINN seconded the motion. .
noble earl had observed that this bill was in the Sir C. WOOD admitted the importance of the subject,
sane direction as previous measures ; and he quoted but it had been the invariable practice hitherto to require
two, namely, the Compensation Bill and the Clergy a separate act for extending our laws to India. He there-
Reserves Bill. Now, as to the former of these, what-
fore could not consent to legislate for India simply through
ever might be said against its principle, which he the
et
I mediumiada oyfe tan
strongerinstruction
o le
ettetotnhteo
th committeeproposal. o a
.billas i
did not defend, he defied any one to prove that it year, when the whole affairs of India were brought fully
had not been carried out in accordance with the strictest under the consideration of Parliament, it was distinctly
principles of justice, and with a due respect to the law understood that in future these detailed law reforms should .
and sovereignty of this country. (Hear, hear.) With beleftto the Government of India itself. The courts of India
respect to the Clergy Reserves Bill, the noble earl had were already in advance of our own, and since the Indian
made an extraordinary mis-statement i for be said that Government still evinced a disposition to proceed further
the first step that had been taken since the passing of in their efforts to promote law reform, ha rep hauds than
eated that it
the bill had been for the secular of those reserves, would be better to leave the matter in their
r
engraft it on this bill.
He was enabled, however, after an interview both with Mr. COLLIER hoped the motion would not be pressed,
Lord Elgin and Mr. Hinckes, to give-the strongest de- as it would be far better to extend the provisions
nial to that statement. (Hear, hear.) With respect to of the bill to India by a separate act. This was 1
t'ee dream of the noble earl, he must also deny that the much too important a- measure to be delayed by a
bill would have the slightest effect in weakening the as- mere question of extension like this ; it was, perhaps, the
sociation of the colonies with this country. (Hear.) most important measure for the country that had been
He now came to the question" of two houses ; and on introduced for many years, and if Government had brought
that subject he had only to repeat what he had observed in ro other bill than this, they would be entitled to the
when the bill was read a second time, namely, that an thanks of the house for proposing it.
upper chamber would be utterly useless unless it corn- Mr. NAPIteR felt the importance of getting into com-
manded the public respect, which he contended the pre- mittee on this bill without delay, and therefore he would
which
sent Legislative Council certainly did not. The noble zoethraect a
givenits
notice,
sbe
it
__,. that Tesh'oinuinseeienxstternu(cietic{nLofreland.
earl had said that if the governor-general did not sup' Mr. V. SCULLY objected to legislating specially for
port the authority of the council, it was not to be won- different sections of the kingdom. He would rather have
dered at that it should have fallen into general dis- the worst legislation for Ireland, in connection with Eng-
esteem. He hoped the noble earl did not mean that as a land, than the very best that could be devised for Ireland
reproach to the governor-general, who had certainly not alone. Ireland, together with India and the colonies,
shown any undue deference to the assembly as corn- should be allied with England in the administration of the
pared with the council. The value of a second chamber law, and for that purpose alone it would be advisable to
was its conservative tendency ; but there was a point at have a minister of justice.
which a chamber might cease to be conservative and be- The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said there was no dispo-
come merely obstructive. •• The noble lord did not upon sition to legislate separately for England and Ireland, but
this occasion express FO broadly as had been stated on thoseere •:;)yfere
epi,elintc; of practice in Ireland so different from
former occasions, but neverthelesss he gave them to un- only be extenred,ttohitrtetahnisdT)easure of legal reform could
derstand that the upper chamber in Canada ought to be After a few observations fryoma saargembNilLand Mr. W.
an imitation of the House of Lords. He believed it WILLIAMS the amendment was withrawn, and the house
would be futile and impracticable to attempt to imi- went into committee on the bill.
tate • the House of Lords. While a nominative cha,m. Clauses from Ito 12, inclusive, were agreed to.
her in a colony possessed more of the form of the house Clause 13 was postponed.
of peers,' an elective chamber possessed more of the sub- On clause 14, which relates to the constitution of juries,
stance. A general impression prevailed at one time Mr. S. WORTLEY asked if there was any intention this
out of doors that the only interest represented in that grand session
j utery propose f eC ennui; aelhZlnr igmeininalt&euqs.nstitution of the
house was the agricultural interest. Undoubtedly a The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said the subject had been
great number of their lordships were possessed of large under consideration, in connection with that of the ap-
landed property, but if they looked carefully into the pointment of a public prosecutor. He might perhaps be
composition of that house, they would find that the • allowed to take that opportunity of stating, that of late
commercial and the manufacturing interests were re- he had given a good deal of anxious consideration to the
presented in it ; and he believed there was no question latter question, but it was surrounded with so many diffi-
that could come before their lordships that was not fairly culties that he hail been unable to devise any
represented in that house. As a member of that house
scheme which would be worthy the attention of Par-
liament It would be easy enough to select and 1
he reinced to believe that they enjoyed the respect of • '
appoint an efficient public prosecutor, but to make
the country, not horn mere personal considerations, but his functions of any service to the public it would
also from old traditi ms and affection. But that body, be necessary to alter the whole constitution of our crimi-
although originally nominated by the Crown, possessed nal courts. However, the subject during the recess would
also a qualite which no upper chamber of a colony pos- engage his most serious attention, as a ell as that of the
sessed, or he believed ever could possess, and that was its Lord Chancellor and other law officers of the Crown, and
hereditary character. There were some persons who ob- he hoped that by the beginning of the next session he
jetted to the hereditary character of legislators, but he should be prepared with a measure on the subject, which
thought they would bear any comparison with nomi- would be really worthy the adoption of the Legislature.
nated legislators. If their lordships sat in that house as The clause was then withdrawn, with the view of mak-
mere nominees, they would be looked upon as mere ing some alteration in the qualification of jurymen, so as
to blend the middle anti intelligent with the lower and
toils of the government of the day. and they would less educated classes in the formation of a .
be devoid of all that respect which alone enabled Clause 15
and 16 were also withdrawn.
them to perform their duties with satisfaction to the On clause 17, which proposes to render the unanimity of
country. He believed that the recollection of immortal a jury, in civil cases, unnecessary, making the decision of
services on the part of the ancestors of many of those he 10'hut of 12 binding, and reducing their period of being
was now addressing form an essential and important locked up to 12 hours,
element in the estimation in—which they were held Tho ATTORNEY-GENERAL said this clause was
by the c iuntry. But it was impossible that that body based upon the recommendation of the first Common Law
could be imitated in a colony. An'! what was a no- Commission. Tho second commission reported in favour
initiated chamber—what had experience proved it to be ? of the continuance of the existing system, and he confessed
Thsory was at variance with its constitution, and he was himself favourable to tht report, but so many high legal
confident that our experience, as it had grown year functionaries.seleie Iliaey i' ge
thoughteristeeu;el
stthteoir caela c If rencein the pro-
op it rather
.than
by year, had shown that the result had nut been satis- pwoai t for someu better mode of •
factory. In whatever colony it was found, year by year the existing system.
it had become inure distasteful to those for whom it was Mr. I. BUTT insisted that so important a change in the
to legislate ; gradually it had lost the respect of the law ought to be made the subject of a separate bill, in
community, and had become to be regarded as the mere order that the house might have an opportunity of pro-
tool of the government, Now, as a substitute for this flouncing a definitive opinion upon it as a question of prin-
their only alternative was an elective chamber ; and if ciple. He should, therefore, move that the clause be struck
out.
' MMr
they had an elective chamber, they must undoubtedly ASSEY thought it absurd to expect unanimity
fence it round with such restrictions as would make it
from any lee men.
corrective of the hasty legislation of the lower chamber. Mr. PHINN objected to the change, and if the com-
The noble earl had discussed this measure as if he (the mittee went to a division upon the clause he should vote
Duke of Newcastle) proposed to their lordships to adopt against it.
the draft bill which was sent by the Executive Council Mr. NAPIER would not consent to purchase. the bill at
fur their consideration. Now that was not the case ; such a fearful price as the sacrifice of unanimity.
certainly not as regarded this bill ; neither was it the Mr. COLLIER remarked that at present unanimity was
case as regarded the opinions and views of the Govern- produced in a great many cases by coercion, and it was by
ment ; but even if it were, allow him to say that anxiety th
no eans unreasonable to try the experiment proposed by
had been shown by the Executive Council to place around m
lau
Mr.
c KE. e.ATING insisted that, if they applied this prin-
this body such restrictions as should effect that object. ciple to civil cases, it must ultimately be extended to cri-
They wanted, as he had said, a conservative legislature. mined courts also.
The possession of property by the members was one After some observations from Mr. G. Butt, Mr. Denis
means of obtaining that end. The noble earl had dwelt eon, Mr. Elliott, Mr. Craufurd, Mr. W. D. Seymour, Mr.
with some severity on the fact that while they proposed Dunlop, Mr. Atherton, Mr. Henley, Sir C. Burrell, and
to repeal a bill requiring a property qualification in the Mr. Brotherton, the committee divided, when there ap-
Legislative Assembly, they required a greater qualifica- neared,
For the clause
tion for the Legislative Council. That was not incon-
Against it
sistent. Then, with regard to age, he apprehended that Majority.. —s
a man who had arrived at the age of thirty was not so The clause was accordingly agreed to.
likely to be led away by the ardour of democratic feel- The other clauses, up to clause 37, were agreed to, and
ings as he would be at twenty-one. Why the noble earl it being 4 o'clock, the Chairman reported d
progress, an the
would surely not deny that he had become in later years sitting was suspended till six o'clock.
more conservative than when he was a younger man? The house resumed at six "clock.
(Laughter.) Then there wasathird provision, a lengthened NEWSPAPER STAMP.
occupation of the seat, the election of the members at Mr. LUCAS asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer
different times, so that the whele body would not be , whether the Government had arrived t decision •
a any in
carried away by any popular feeling at the time of i reference to the newspaper stamp question, with the view
the election. He attached great importance to such 'of carrying out the declared opinion of that house?
a provision, and there was another which, though not so The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, as he
important, was not without its influence, and that was i understood the question put by lyre bon. gentle.msn, it was
that the Legislative Council should be a considerably whether the Government at the ent time intended to
smaller body than the Legislative Assembly. He con- bring in any bill to give effect to the esolritre stihtethhwoans
eluded by calling on their lordships net to adopt the comet to by that house upo
st. mourn.
arnalheencnoster (Mr.o
Alger Gib-
amendment, which would be regarded in the colonies as gentleman the
Government member
fwere not prepared to bring in such
the adoption of a retrograde step. If they passed the • a bill ; and it would perhaps save the hon. gentleman some
measure he did not think the colonists would abuse it, ; trouble if he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) now stated
as the noble earl seemed to think ; but, on the contrary, I that, when they were prepared to do so, the Government
that it would form an additional link, if such was neces- I would take care to give notice of their intentions.
sary, in that chain of connexion which indissolubly bound I POSTAGE BETWEEN ENGLAND AND FRANCE. ,
that important colony to the parent state of England. Mr. H. BARING asked the Secretary of the Treasury
iI
(Cheers.) I if he could hold out any expectation of a diminution in
Lard ST. LEONARDS said that the noble duke hay- ; exorbitant rate ofpostage charged between
the present
this country and France?
ing intimated that this measure, if carried in the case of ,
Mr. WILSON said that communications had taken place
Canada, would be applicable to the other colonies of the
' between the Post-office authorities of this country arid the
Crown, if ever there was a question which required con- French Post-office, with the view of securing a considerable
sideration and explanation the present was that one. • reduction in the postal charges, but nothing definitive had
(Hear.) Their lordships, therefore, should bear in mind been done on the subject. The negotiations had not, how-
that their vote would decide in fact whether there was to ever, been formally broken off, and the matter might still
be a single assembly only in each of their colonies. If be said to be in a state of suspense.
this measure passed, they might well consider the tie TREATY BETWEEN AUSTRIA. AND TURKEY.
between the mother country and the colonies at large to Lord D. STUART wished to ask the noble lord the Pre-
be severed. (Hear.) The noble duke said he did not , sident of the Council whether any treaty or convention
ask their lordships to pass the bill which had been sent had been signed between Austria and
principalitieshePoortlew]:thnu7;
; gard to the. occupation of the
from Canada, but a bill to enable the Canadian Legisla-such treaty had
by Austrian troops ; whether, in that case,
Lure to do so. The more manly course would have been
been communicated to her Majesty's Government ; and
to pass the bill itself. What was now proposed was an
whether the noble lord had any objection to lay it
evasion of the liability of Government and an escape , upon the table? He would also beg to ask whether the
from the responsibilities of the measure. The vote of ' intelligence that had been freely circulated in London by
the house would amount to the passing of the bill of the ' organs which were generally well informed, to the effect
Canadian Assembly. Nobody could doubt that would that Russia had accepted what was callalled the ultimatum
be the effect of the vote of their lordships if they passed of Austria, had been confirmed, and ether the retire-
the measure. He thought istria and from the
the wisest step which the ment of the Russian troops from Sil . .
'reformation received by bar
Government could take would be to ascertain what was Danube was, according to the i
ofMajesty's Government, the consequence any
understand-
really the opinion of the colonists before they pressed the .
th t had been to the subject'
ine• a come on •
bill. (Hear.) " e
Lord J. RUSSELL—In answer to the first queittion of
' The Earl of HARROWBY was of opinion that with my noble friend, I have to say that her Mannar s Govern-
regard to colonies so far developed as Canada, it was ment has received information that a convention has been
essential that the council should be constituted in some signed between Austria and the Sublime Porte for the oc-
other way than by the direct nomination of the Crown. cupation of the Danubian principalities by Austrian troops
h 11 h
n troops s a ave
(Hear.) But upon so important a question as tho con- in any case, either whether the Itet ether they shall seek to
stitution of a colony, he thought it would be unwise to quitted the principalities, or. w
if the Russians have volun-
leave the decision of it to the more popular body alone. remain there—tat is tio Jay,
the Austrian troops will oc- ,
He was of opinion that the two bodies ought to decide tarily left the pro pa
Russians m udifitheittes' should refuse to quit the '
on such a question, and in that case only when they
euPY tittiesa, the Austrian troops will enter those princi-
were properly formed. (Hear.) The measure was one I) 1.9
rranteileps, for the purpose of driving them out. (Loud cries
which required the most scrupulous caution, as it might lof "hoar, hear," and a laugh.) That is the effect of the
affect the welfare of Canada not only as one of our colo- treaty; but we have not at present an official copy of the 1
nies, but as an italependeut state. tie thought it would convention which has been signed, and therefore I cannot
have been better to introduce the elective chamber by promise yet to lay it upon the table of this house. With
an act of the Imperial Legislature. He was not opposed regard to my noble
that
tnnsecoend question, which relates
to the principle of an elective Legislative Council ; fur to any intelligence h
with respect to thenE'eceived by her Majesty's
under the nomination system, the members were merely Governmentnte
e to the ultimatum of AusratT'eror of Russia hiving
the nominees of one ministry after another, and possessed eneouosfficial information of that nat 1 ia, I have to state that
no influence of their own. (Hear, hear.) e With the
the Government. The last Buie that I has been received by
views he entertained he felt it was the most logical Minister he informed me that no
answer had
thee Austrian
tt;
li
re.
course to vote for the bill ; but he was constrained, ceived at Vienna ; and I suppose, unless sulyetiennufer-
under the circumstances in which it had been brought nation has arrived, that no answer has yet been received.
forward, to vote for the postponement. Sir H. WILLOUGHBY—I wish to ask the noble lord if
The Earl of DERBY said a few words in explana- this country is any party to the convention which he states
tion as to the course lie had taken in reference to the has been conclieleil between Austria and tie Porte?
Cape of Good Hope. He felt bound to act upon the
and the
RUSSELL—It is a convention between Austria
promise given by the preceding Government to give the d to,P•ri amid t • ty to it.
Mn-.L . ...,. . his country is not a pal
of fact, as the LA YARD -I.RD asked if the noble lord would lay on the
colony bee institutions. But in point
cthe table ofthat the subject of the treaty
house a despatch on
Kafir war then fully occupied the attention o, tole-for rant- of Adrianople, which had been laid on the table of the
nists, it was thought better to defer any step g.
He wished House of Lords 9
lug the conetitution till I ease was restored.
Lord J. RUSSELL—If my hon. friend, or any other
to call the attention if the noble duke to the fact that
hon. member, will move for the production of the despatch,
two of the seven clauses of which the bill consisted did
there will be no objection to produce it.
riot come within the scope of the title of the bill. Should Mr. LAYARD said, in that case he gave notice that he
, their lordships decide to proceed with the bill, he should would move that it be laid on the table.

give•tlieni no,further trotible. on the-details,---bitrwftld-
divest hfinqelf of further responsibility in regard to it.
Their lordships then divided—
For the bill 63
Against it
Majority —24
The bill then passed through committee.
The house adjourned at ten minutes after nine o'clock.