The Sun.
London, England, 1838-05-22 00:00:00

"US Will STe '•
to improve the social relations between landlord and i the Noble Marquis (Londonderry) had, with great justice, stated that
tenant—between the occupier and the labourer of the soil.—(Hear, hear) the same principle with regard to a Poor-law would not equally apply to
i‘IY Lords, this is the result which I anticipate. I confess, my Lords, both countries. But the present Poor-law was, after all, an experiment
that if the state of the poor had beeneolltioued in this country as it was in England—(Hear, from Lord Stanhope)—and it was the first time he
fouryears ago I should have hesitated before I gave my assent to the had ever heard of an experiment being taken for a model—(A laugh)—
introduction of Poor-laws into Ireland; but, seeing the results which for another country. But the Irish Bill bore, in fact, no resemblance
advantage which
of 1834 has produced in this country—seeing the great whatever to the English Bid.—(Hear, hear.) The English Bill
'which has occurred from the working of that system— contained a settlement, while the Irish Bill had nothing of
and seeing how, more particularly, it has improved the re- the kind. The English Bill gave much out-docr relief, the
tenons of landlord and tenant—l cannot help desiring some such Irish none. In England they compelled the suppression of
emeasure for Ireland, in order, if Possible, 'to remedy the evils of vagrancy and mendicancy—in Ireland they allowed them to
connected
country, By Lords, I confess that there are other measures continue ; and, in addition to these things, the English Bill
ward
with the subject which I should wish to eve brought for- was after all only a remedy applied to the abuses of a pre-
have
cl bY the Government. Some of these measure, to which I allude vious system of Poor-laws—and yet they took it for the model of their
either been wholly omitted in the discussions which have takeo legislation for Ireland. The sufferings of the Irish poor were not the re..
them,
in the House of Cemnions or little or no attention was paid to stilt of idleness or any disinclination to work, but in a want and a
and I have no doubt that, whether this Bill be considered as an ins- scarcity of work ; and if such was the case, what became of the test of
Provement or not, the measure alluded to by the Noble Viscount destitution which was so much talked of in connection with this Bill ?
Wills reference to the supwould (Hear.) This was another proof that the application of this measure to
ofpression of mendicit y and vagrancy
0e the utmost advantage in paving the way for this Bill. I agree, Ireland was quite impossible. In tee report of Mr. Nicholl there was
my Lords, that considerable' time must elapse before this measure can be a fundamental error, and which was not discovered until after the BM
carried into effect—before the workhouses can be in a state to receive had been brought in. Mr. Nicholl said there were 80,000 persons in
any of those for whom they are to be an asylum—and therefore it is that Ireland that required relief; but how did he arrive at such a conclu-
.• venture to express my hope that the Noble Viscount will not allow the sion ? He took four English counties as his test, and there saw that one
regard
to mendicants and vagrants ; without hisresent Session to pass over without bringing
having that measure in
forth his measure with per cent, of the population was in distress, and then ca:culated at the
same ratio for Ireland. The amount of the poor-rate in England was five
such forwardness that it can be carried into execution at once. There millions; so that, allowing even only the same state of destitution
Was another part of the measure of 1834 which was most important, in Ireland, there would be a poor-rate there of two millions and a
and most worthy of being considered with reference to the provisions of half. Would this relieve pauperism in Ireland ? Certainly not, be-
the present measure. I mean that portions of it which gave locality cause it was admitted that, allowing all the workhouses to be filled under
to the expense. lam firmly convinced that the establishment of a law this Bill, there would still be as large a portion of destitute population
of settlement,
my_ in connection with this Bill, in Ireland would be produc-
out of doors as would keep up the same system of mendicity as existed
man
of unbounded expense and taxation, and lead to disputes of which no at this moment. In fact the whole of this Bill was a delusion ; it could
','an could foresee the
those parishes from which those persons are taken who are to bet e end—and in this measure it is our duty to take care do no good. A man holding a tenement of 5/. a year, would be rated to
that
the poor, and would still have to sustain the same system of mendicity.
Placed in the workhouses shall be required to pay the expenses connected Look at the situation of the guardians under this Bill. They would be
With the relief of those paupers. That arrangement is one of the prin. obliged to reject some applicants for relief whose claims might be as
Clreland, of the economy of the execution of the Poor-law in this country. Ins strong as those of others whose applications had been successful.
eland, I think we ought to take care that, at least, the expense of sup-
Would gentlemen in Ireland do this ? No, they could not, for it would
P°rting the relief of its own poor fall on each individual parish.—(Hear, excite such a degree of jealousy, as would give rise to dangerous
ma conse-
!sear.) I think it
ossible that such an amendment
be introduced quences. It would lead to vengeaece, and would place the guardians
py
this suggestion
measure, and I hope the Government will be able to do it on not only in a painful, but in a dangerous situation. The Bill pro..
..
floe to vote for the second reading of the Bill.—(Cheers.) Officers of every kind ; and, last of all, paid Guardians. Ile
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY should not be doing his duty asked the Gentlemen of Ireland if those workhouses would isot became
either to that county.' or to their Lordships if he were not to come for.. prisons, and if they would not be looked upon as another chain placed
ward at the present stage of the Bill, and to request them not to con_ upon the Irish people by their Saxon oppressors ? Isle confessed he did
sent to its lacing read a second time.—(hear, hear.) As he found in not expect that this or any other measure would come well matured or
he preamble of the Bill the words " whereas it is necessary to adapted from the Government of the Noble Viscount opposite, a Go..
tmakew a provision for the poor of Ireland," to that principle he vernment that seemed to exist only from hand to mouth.—(Hear, hea ,
otars ready to give his assent ; but be had consulted several and cheers.) He totally despaired of seeing any great measure emanate
net Noble Lords on the subject, and some of high judicial from such a Government. For the reasons he had stated Ise did not
authority, and they had informed him that they did not think it think the present Bill ought to pass into a law, and nothing that he had
Possible that, taking that principle into consideration and coupling it heard in its favour enabled him to come to a different conglusion. The
with the provisions of the present Bill, he could give his consent to its Noble Lord sat down amidst loud cheering
being„opnion upon Ireland; and, with their Lordships' permission, read a second time. The Bill was one which would fix a heavy "f he Earl of RADNOR said that there was a very wide distinction
"n
lie between the consistency of the Noble Duke (the Duke of Wellington)
a
Would read to them the opinion, with regard to this point, of a gentle_ and the Noble and Learned Lord who had just spoken. The Noble
roars f
great experience and knowledge of the subject—Sir Francis Duke voted far the second reading of the Bill, because he approved of
ICVN-a,,hi
don - 'en. That gentleman, in a letter to a friend of his (Lord Lon- the principle, although he disapproved of some of the details ; but tine
.cderry) said'—" You surely underrate the cost of the precious pro_ Noble and Learned Lord voted for the second reading, although he
7,, tin question when you estimate it at 10 or 15 per cent.—(Hear.) disapproved both of the principle and the details. The Noble and
' the Bill do not provide for all the destitute it will do nothing ; and if Learned Lord had altogether mistaken the financial part of the question,
ftprovide for all ready made and to be created by its own necessary ope- because it had been ascertained that the customary mode of relief af-
forded by mendicancy to a destitute population of 2,385,000 for thirty
ration, Ido not think 50 per,cent. will pay the charges. I should take
more comfort from the impossibility of carrying the law into prac. months would amount to no more than one million and a half.
t
loe
oof
)ways
did not know that enormous sums will have bean squan. Lord LYNDHURST in explanation, approved of the principle of theai
e" and great injur •in various have been effected before they relieving the poor in Ireland, but he did not consider this Bill calcu-
„e
brought to acknowledge their error." Again, there was another lated to carry out that principle.
Point
se es to which he wished to call their Lordships' attention, which was The Marquis of CLANRICARDE said that his objection to the Bill
`ue great was, that it did not appear to him at all calculated to afford relief to the
fees ~ expense connected wills the establishments to carry into ef.
Poo: of Ireland. If he thought it would have that effect he would vote
tee"..,.".e °Nects of the Bill, and from which it appeared that, as they in-
landed to for it, but as he did not, he should oppose evens the second reading of it.
give no outdoor relief, all that expense would fall upon the
n ndlords Suppose the workhouses filled, there would still be left in the country a
of Ireland in support of these establishments and not for the
maintenancere, of the poor (Hear, hear.) The Noble Marquis then large mass of vagrant and destitute population. He should, therefore, ,
not vote for the Bill at all. He repeated that this Bill could do no good
re'ladt.extracts from some 'some statements of Mr. Sharman Crawford
'for Ireland, and would only go to establish a species of unlimited despo- •
nee to these expenses, and asked their Lordships whether, after
isuch strung .
viction g assertions from experienced men, and such a strong con-
was to see the upper, the middle, and the lower classes united in one
bova, °n their part as to the impolicy of such a system as was em-
f,,o7 ,in this measure, they would persist in forcing it upon bond of interest and attachment; and, however anxious he was to see
(lir"' in opposition to their wishes and feelings regarding it.— a proper system of poor relief introduced in Ireland, that might lead
ohtteatr, It had been said, ton, that this Bill would have the effect of to such a union he was compelled to vote against this Bill, as he
did not think it co' uld be so altered, even in the Committee, as to lead
but
l'' g the great emigration of Irish labourers into this country,
to any gc od.
cost that was altogether a mistaken calculation, for every man in the
The Earl of LIMERICK, who was wholly inaudible in the gallery,
cote, degree acquainted with Ireland must know that nothing
`" ever be found that would effect so desirable an object, unless it was understood to oppose the second reading of the Bill.
Was the The Earl of DEVON believed if the present Bill passed, with some
lith_ circumstance of the Irish being placed on an equality with Eng-
r,
whir
in regard to wages. According to the statement of Mr. Nicholl, improved alterations in Committee, it would greatly benefit the landed
to b "'eh this Bill was founded, there were only eighty thousand poor Proprietors as well as the destitute portion of the population of Ireland.
ereee Provided for in Ireland; whereas it was well known that there Lord HATHERTON knew that great opposition was to be expected
-te upwards of seven hundred and fifty thousand requiring relief in to the introduction of the workhouse system of England into Ireland
wraitntrY. With respect to the workhouse system, an intelligent but he felt that Mr. Nichol! had fairly made out his case, and he be.
drs-r, under the signature of " Clericus," had observed :—" One hun- li:wed that nine out of any ten pets inns who had censi-
;`;` workhouses are to be built at an expense (including the purchase dered the subject would say that such was the fact. He must do
iea:,welve acres of land to be attached to each, furniture, &c.), of at Mr. Nicholl the justice to say that his system was far more
obsst 10,0001. each—total, say one million. This calculation, it will be economical than that recommended by the first Commissioners, whose
as'etved, is for one hundred—the Commissioners may erect as many plans involved, 'besides the erection of depots, penitentiaries, and
to they think proper. In these workhouses 100,000 persons are asylums, the eAablishmen tof a system of emigration, with powers to
h,„ De fed and clothed. To each of these establishments is to be vested iti the
hearuthorities to receive and maintain all who applied for
di'_ attached a staff; consisting of two or three chaplains, a me- a passage to lonies. He supposed that in a year of scarcity or
1,,11 attendant, a govern" and his assistants, male and female, famine great multitudes might so apply, and he had no difficulty in be.
The expense of earls inmate (including all charges, food, staffi col.. lieving that in the course of three years as much expense would be
totetion, s‘e ~
e ) cannot possibly be less than 101. per annum each— curred under the system recommended by the Commissioners as in 20
aicial, one million yearly. Let not the charge of 101. each be con_ by that one advocated by Mr. Nicholl.—(Hear.) He believed that the
~, 'red high, That of paupers confined in the district lunatic asylum workhouse would be a test of destitution infinitely stronger in Ireland
Lades from 301. to 15L, averaging about ISL yearly. In the asylum in than in England, as had been asserted by all the experienced masters of
is l the lowest charge, within a period of seven years, for each inmate workhouses in Liverpool, Birmingham, Manchester, Bristol, and other
i' '64 18s.suppose, as in the case of the district places frequented bY the Irish, for they felt the confinement much more
anatnthan the English did. He was aware that the House was not prepared
t; c asylum, tine Government to be repaid the expense of the erec-
;Da of the workhouses by fourteen yearly payments, the annual charge to fully appreciate the immense blessings as regarded the moral
"4 that period will be 71,428/. I Is. 5d., making, with the cost of sup- effects to be introduced into Ireland through the agency of this
114 t, &c., a total, for fourteen years, of 1,710,428 L odd, per annum. new poor-law—(Laughter)—but he would ask if the arrange.
Ilter fourteen years the annual payment may be considered one millions ment of unions and district authorities were not of first-rate
at least . After continuing the extract at some length, the Noble
• on importance in a country like Ireland—deficient as it was in
klsnluis went on to say all these considerations prevented him from re_ so many of the social arrangements familiar to everybody in
Zelling his mind to vote for the second reading of this Bill. He well England for the proper conduct of affairs throughout the rural districts.
bee.'4.,,,,the embarrassed state in which the Noble Viscount at the head of There was oae point in which he must differ from Mr. Nicholl, but that
h,74leAy's Government was placed, with the restless Radicals on Isis Point invols ed in a great degree the suc2,ss of the measure. He alluded
angc4,o°ne night, and the inconvenient Conservatives another —(A laugh)— to the absence of any elalse to restrict the wandering of the pauper,—
..,(ta"e difficulty lie was under of doing any thing without a Commission. (Hear.) He felt that without the establishment of a strict principle of
te,:"*Sughter.) Yet when he (the Marquis of Londonderry) looked at settlement for the practical abolition of vagrancy, the operation of the
pool Iloill
ae its bearings, and considered the destitute state of the Bin would only convert the workhouses in Ireland into so many cara.
n t f Ireland, unless the Noble Viscount would give him sonic pledge eanseras.—(Hear.) Unless some principle of this kind was introduced
coalmines,l'fi linnet the extent uf the measure, when it should go into the measure would surely operate as a discouragement to improvement,
to that part of the Preamble which acknowledged the ne- for the paupers would infallibly flock to where they saw most comfort and
• sitY of providing for the poor of Ireland, and would alter the remain. abundance to invite legalised attacks. Public works might be taken ad_
ri4e.,g Portion of it, he should feel himself compelled to move that it be vantage of to afford employment in particular favourable localities, and
"u a second time that day six months.—(Hear, hear.) thus the Bill might be gradually and consecutively introduced during
Lord LyisantuttsT then rose, and observed, it was his intention ten or fifteen years, without any danger from the delay. It had been
to
vote for the second reading of the Bill, but at the same time to state said that not a Petition had been presented in favour of it, while many
c that unless it should be essentially altered in its progress through the had bean presented against it; but it was only natural to expect that
tasimittee, and rendered less extensive and less expensive in its opera_ those who were to become ratepayers would feel objections to a measure
'tons, he should certainly—at least such was his present opinion not that so committed them. As for the silence of those whom it was
Rive his vote in favour of the third reading. The Bill professed
to be meant to serve he could never believe that the two millions three bon-
ier the benefit of the people of Ireland, and their Lord: hips ought cm dyed thousand destitute inhabitants of Ireland were unwilling to have
twiny first of all to take into consideration, and to have amp le means of' themselves and their children comfortably provided for Ix cause they did
knowing, what the people of that country thought
upon the subject, In not send petitions to that House in favour of the measure.
the other House of Parliament, while many petitions had been presented Lord BROUGHAM --He felt he owed an apology to their Lordships
against the Bill, only four, he understood, had beenpresented in its for rising at all to address himself to this important question at so late
savour—and in their Lordship,' House a great variety of petitions had a period in the debate, but he felt lie owed a still greater apology for
bee., i. •
..... o aid on the table in opposition to it from the magistracy of Ireland rising to address himself to a questions of Irish legislation with which lie
(Hear, hear)—from the grand juries of every county in Ireland, from had no naanner of connection, and respecting whose affairs his know_
Iluinerous county meetings in that kingdom, and from many great public ledge must of necessity be peculiarly little, when he knew that there
'eci:doeles there, and not one single petition in its favour.—(Loud were among their Lordships so many intimately connected with that
site had
True that, on a former night, the Noble Marquis oppo- part of the country by property, by residence occasionally there, and
it , 'ad presented two petitions in favour of the principle of the Bill, but others who, intimately connected with this measure—he alluded para.
I,,SUrned out, when those petitions came to be read, that they were op_ cularly to certain members of her Majesty's Government, who were the
"ed to '
be the measure praying that a Bill of an opposite character might parents, or at least the adopted parents of this Bill, and who observed an
svi,h4tsed. With respect to the petitions which had been presented, Inc unbroken silence during the whole of the debate on that most impor.
cotoed to call the attention of their Lordships to the report of these tant and peculiarly Irish question—(Hear, and laughter)—lie had waited
et h.,41s issioners, to which the Noble Viscount had referred ins the course with anxiety till they should stand forward and occupy that which was
a ham sPeech. Those Commissioners were not persons who had come to not his place. He had waited hitherto in vain, and was left to gue 5,
ankh ItOr inconsiderate conclusion, but they had, after having spent if he could, by divination, the cause of their ominous silence.
eepreunne, and taken the greatest pains in considering the subject It could not be that they had misgivings of the merits of the
Ptoeed an opinions of the most determined description, against the question. That was impossible. It was a Government measure. It
tintio
."Ds of this Bill. The Noble Earl opposite (Fitzwilliam) had could not be that they had no demand for their services, for an assault
Lyod'b'a'd that this measure was an experiment—(Hear)—and he (Lord had been made on the Government measure, so powerful, that until he
shottleiWst should be far more willing to try such an experiment if, after it heard it defended, and successfully defended, against that attack, what-
to be have been tried, and, as might possibly be the case, turned out ever might be his inclination, he was bound to give his vote against
fore 8 a failure, they would be in the same position as they were be. this measure proceeding further.—(Loud Opposition cheers.) Was it
sPreadU.th a measure was passed ; and if, before they ran the risk of that the speech of his Noble and Learned Friend (Lord Lyndhurst) re.
Belo to consider
dissatisfaction among the landlords of Ireland, they could have quired no answer ? Oh, but three different supporters of the Governs..
(lei 'consider whether, by the steps they were taking, they were not ment did come forward. There was, first, a Noble friend of his, as
ne that •
tivii e u which was calculated to weakens the bonds which united the utterly unconnected with the Government and the measure as he was
Ineasoetenitrlec—(Cheers.) It was a great measure of public policy—a with Ireland. .He essayed to answer hie Noble and learned Friend ; but
the ...coh,f.Ought in with a great display of pompous promises—and yet failure more signal—(Laughter), more lamentable defeat, he never saw
reere
Ratter of speculation. The Noble Marquis, however, had said He could see no inconsistency in his Noble and Learned Friend giving
f4clll. alto
the principle of the Bill—a thing which it was always very his vote fur the second reading. At the same time his arguments went
seat it ‘„ ° define in any Bill. His (Lord Lyndhurst's) view of it was so far against the whole frame and structure of this measure, that he
tut 11,, 'as a Bill for the relief of the Poor of Ireland without limitation. really thought he should be trifling with the Bill, with their Lordships,
of
O"rW was this relief to be effected ? By the establishment of a mass with the subject, and with the country, if he did not at once say, that
tho„ 'houses—by giving three Commissioners the power to locate until he heard it defended far otherwise than he heard it as yet even
conoecwt °rlshouses—(Hear)—and the entire regulation of all matters attempted to be defended, he could see no practical good whatever in
With the(' with the provisions of the Bill.—(Hear.) Was that in unison going into Committee to discuss its detain,—(Opposition cheers.) Then,
or tiot"e spirit of the Constitution, or agreeable with the law of the land, what was the next answer ? Why, it was said, in answer to the
Ile ad' he would leave to their Lordships to decide.—(Cheers.) financial statement of his Noble and Learned Friend, " There is
Iloose the greatest respect for the House of Commons ; but if the already a very large sum collected for the relief of the poor in Ire-
-14 Lord°f Commons passed a bad law it was in the power of the I-louse land—it amounts to something like a million and a half." Good
eolzol Sto reject it—and if the House of Lords sent to the House of God ! did his Noble Friend mean that this sum might be converted
reke°4, a bad measure it was equally in the power of that House to into money ? Because there were people who now event about
into a ,t° concur in it. But if they once allowed a bad measure to pass the country, and partook of the hospitality which that kind-hearted
toe osW it was extremely. inconvenient, inasmuch as it required the and generously-disposed people were ever ready to afford—a people that
Lored;o.r,ence of both Houses of Parham' ent to repeal it. Let their was famous, he believed, amongst all the nations of the earth, for their
4i0,071P8 mark the extraordinary powers with which these Commis- disposition to share their little crust with their poorer neighbour, and
Cq,,stit' Were to be invested. They were to be invested with a most un- very little poorer than themselves—because the goodness and hospitality
lava entional power—(Cheers)—they were to have the power of passing of that people induced them to share with others a fractions of the corn-
-4 co4;r"r the government of all these workhouses ; they were to exercise mon salt, which was the only seasoning they possessed of their coarse
kites •°U I over even the Guardians ; and to pass such laws as they them. food, scarcely capable of sustaining life—that because these mendicants
viiilitnlight think convenient, and for what object? To carry the pro- were supported when out of employment, and before their crops came
Were tc,°f a Bill like this into effect. What was the next thing they in by their neighbours, it was therefore possible to raise from the people
t, he have the power of doing ? They were to appoint, or cause for their support a millon and a half of money.—(Opposition cheers.)
arid vi,aPPointed, as mane officers under this Bill as they pleased, Any body who had read even a twentieth part of what was said on this
thin with hard
whatever salaries they pleased. Why, was ever such a subject during the last twenty years, or conversed with any one who
that esOrd oi. ?—(hear, hear, hear.) He very well remembered travelled in the country, much more a resident in it, must look on
out ci en the English Poor Law Bill was before their Lordships they such a supposition as utterly and absolutely chimerical, There was
is'l4w. n the number of officers very considerably under it—(Hear) no fund from which the money could be procured. The differ-
-444b4 they werenow to allow as many officers to be appointed in Ire- once would consist in the waste or tine greater consumption of a
Whatley those Commissioners as they might choose to appoint, anal at potatoe or two in the scanty meal of the labourer and small farmer ;
slid pro" amount of salary those Commissioners might think adequate but to hope that more money would be gained by suppressing
fUlly Per—Most undoutbedhy they would be doing ail act which would this kind of mendicancy was a wild, baseless, and chimerical notion.--
(seho_ ear out the assertion that Ireland was the land of jobs, These (Opposition cheers.) But they would not suppress it ; they could not
tle-'iounissioners were also to have the power 01 dividing Ireland into suppress it ;no law that they could make, unless they intended tin in..
themes "whatever size 'they might think proper, of accommodating troduce an intolerable inquisition, could prevent the natural kindness of
seee: to the reception of whatever number of paupers to them might the people from doing offices of this kind. All that could be done by
blieht t' and also of appointing whatever number of Guardians they this Bill, was to snake an additions ',as had been well said that night) to
riniali6,'_?ttsider proper—qualified, too, after their own ideas of what the taxation, and to continue the hospitality.—(Hear, hear.) Well,
toss 4 d' ascription
the circumstances required Or they possessed. This, then, then then came the next answer to his Noble and Learned Friend, the
, leerscriPtion of the Bill. Who would understand it ?—(Cries of
.power of which was to dispense with the Government taking any part
tordmi. hear, hear.) How, he should be glad to know, were their in the debate.
Powers Ps to judge of the manner in which these great and general wills Devon and Ireland, was with him a great authority on most sub-
It
Would be exercised by the Commissioners?—(Hear, ?—ear, hear, hear.) jects, but he should be flattering his Noble Friend if he were to say that
bnt74.,
4.,nlike a Bill coming before their Lordships with nothing his argument coniaine.d the slightest answer to the reasoning of his
tske thefillblanks in it were fillect-up and they were to Noble and Learned Friend. Then came hie Noble Friend behind him
Pl'rtalswhole Bill on credit. But to come to another great and inn. (Lord Hatherten), complaining that the debate had not been confined
thin be toonsideration with respect to this measure. How were all these within the proper . limits.. Bet whet did he ? He debated a
nlissi, hePaid for ?By a tape raised under the authority of these Com- totally different Bill, which was not before the House, which
teceotninersenand this proposition, too, had come up to their Lordships never would be. before the House, which was the abar.
had ae:snded by the votes of a Reformed House of Commons. He live offspring of the first Commission, abandoned by the Govern-
havi,,fr
..i charged with having spoken with disrespect of Ireland—with ment and deserted by Mr. Nicholls himself—(Laud laughter.)
arid ~,twi, aide use of terms of reproach and contumely against the Irish, So that according to his Noble Friend's Parliamentary tactics and logic,
serval; having called them aliens—but all those who heard these ob. it was quite wrong to go into details. on the second reading of this Bill,
ere.,,,e
h,s_ iall from his lips knew well what a gross calumny it was to which raised the question of principle, but it was perfectly right, proper,
really didlrn Of :my such thing, and how great a perversion of what he consistent, and convenient to leave the measure quite on one side, and to
stich died ICY had been spread abroad in the public mind. But evens if take up and go into another measure in all its principle and with all its
tils aie ‘.'een his language what cotnparison was there between the details,—( Laughter.) Again, his Noble Friend had said that Mr.
Rived' a to hirn and the conduct of her Majesty's -Ministers is% cholls was cried down, and attacked or defended, and praised just as it
the ahu er
ee. or four Commissioners under this Bill the power of taxing served the turn ofcertain parties. Now, his Noble Friend was wrong i
their potl,_the property of Ireland ?—(Hear, hear, and cheers.) Let both assertions, for nobody said. one word about the Report of the Com-
earish gc,t`i',lnPs suppose the tables turned, and imagine three or four missioners, until his Noble Friend made it the subject of a most notable
for
tr, i f, en sating in Dublin, and proposing a system of taxation episode. This Gentleman, who was called sometimes by the singular
Drelee a'ns."-(ilear teems)?
) WI at would be the feeling cf this country
areaapative of Nichol, and at other times by the plural one of Nichols,
on tics, a , .• • s
ea a.,. state of tin inge ? And were they not to imagine that Irish. most re,peetawe and worthy m.an, but he was only one individual,
12 ,Uld h
41 b.._ aye the same feelin s wih regard to ourselves They and in that res pect , therefore, the slightest direce to be pe,,iveci in
eva toed that this Blll' was fragnne,4 lifter the Dlglish measure, but the number of pergolas in the Commiteltiot n
n, whisb vasre
said to