The Sun.
London, England, 1854-12-23 00:00:00

E SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENIN G, DECEMBER 23, 1854,

11

itirirete against tile encroachments of Russia, and thus to
raise a barrier against the acquisition of further territory
by that great empire. That was the object announced in
the Queen's Speech,—to defend the Turks. Now, I ask,
have we not accomplished that object ? Have we not ar-
rived at that' point when we can say, all that was promised
in the Queen's speech has been effected. Russia is no
longer within the pale of the Turkish territory. Russia, I
believe, has'renouuced all intention of invading Turkey;
and now we have, according to the noble lord, certain pro-
posals made from Russia to serve as a basis of peace. What
are those proposals? In the first place there is to be a joint
protectorate, by the Five Great Powers of Europe, of the
Christians of Turkey. There is to be a joint guarantee for
the rights and privileges of the Principalities. There is to
be a revocation of the rule laid down in 1841 with regard
to the right of entrance of ships of war into the Black Sea ;
and the Danube is to be free to all nations. These are the
propositions that are made for peace on behalf of Russia,
as we are told by the noble lord ; and what I want to ask
the house is whether it is not competent for us to offer an
opinion, at the present moment, as to the desirability of
treating on these terms. My first reason for, urging that
wo should entertain those terms is this :—We are told that
Austria and. Prussia have agreed to those terms. Now,
Austria and Prussia are more interested in this quarrel
than England is—a great deal more than England ought to
be. On that point I quote the weeds of Lord Palmerston,
in Febritary last :—" It was of the uttnost importance in
a matter affecting the great interests of Europe, , that.
though England and France were from the beginning
heartily, cordially, and entirely together, we should en-
deavour to obtain the concurrence of Austria and Prussia.
We knew that those two countries had an interest in the
metier more direct and greater than had either England
or France. To Austria and Prussia it is a vital matter, a
matter of existence—because if Russia were either to ap
propriate any lari're portion of the Turkish territory, or
even to reduce Turkey to the condition of a mere de-
pendent state, it must-be manifest to any man who casts
a glance over the map of Europe,. and who looks at the
geographical position of those two powers with regard to
Russia etnci Turkey, that any considerable accession of
power on the part of Russia in that quarter must be fatal
to the independence of action of both Austria and Prussia."
I agree with the noble lord in Iris view of the interest which
Austria and Prussia have in this war, but what I want to
ask is this—Why should we ask greater guarantees against
the encroachments of Russia than Austria and Prussia are
content with ? Austria and Prussia lie on the frontier and
on the very borders of tho empire, which you say threatens
us 'with BO much danger. You cannot have an invasion
of the Russians unless they pass over Austria or Prussia.
Is it likely, if all we hear about the danger of western
Europe being overrun by Russia be true that Austria and
Prussia would not be sensible of that fact ? And ought we
not rather to take as a proof that we have exaggerated the
danger and the power of Russia to invade western Europe,
the fact that Austria and Prussia are not more alarmed
about-it than they are? (Hear.) They are not concerned
about this invasion, or they would evidently be anxious to
join England anst Franca in the great battle with Russia, -
in order to drive her back within her own dominions.
And if they aro willing to accept these four propositions,
why should we not entertain them ? Let me ask any ra-
tional person- Do you suppose if Russia really meditated
an attack upon Austria or Germany, if she really contem-
plated annexing a single province of that empire, even if
it were only one of the small places of 100,000 inhabitants
whiah,are comprised in that family,—that the whole of
Germany would not be united to resist it? Is there not a
strong national feeling in that race ? Are they not nearly
40 millions in number, but are they not most brave, most-
intelligent, and have they not proved themselves the most
patriotic race in Europe ? And if they are not prepared to
stir, if they are satisfied with the prepositions laid down in
this Vienna note, why should we be more in danger, why
should we stand out for further conditions, why should we..
make great efforts in order to obtain securities which they
do not require ? I may be told that the Governments and
the peoples of Germany are not acting in harmony. It is
dangerous for hon. gentlemen to assume that governments
do not represent, peoples. How would you like the United
States of America to apply that doctrine to you ? But I
will venture to deny the ground on which that opinion is
formed. I have taken some trouble to ascertain what the
feeling in Germany is upon the war. If you could poll the
entire population of Prussia, I have no doubt whatever
that nineteen-twentieths of them would say that in this
quarrel England is right and Russia is wrong. (" Hear,
hoar," from Lord John Russell.) And more, they would
say that they wish for the success of England as against
Russia. But, on the contrary, if you poll the same popu-
lation as to whether they would join in this war, and help
England with an army to fight against Russia —I believe,
from all I hear, that nineteen-twentieths of the population
of Prussia would support their king in his present policy of
peace, And what is the advantage of having the opinion
of a population like that on your side in the quarrel, if they
will not join you in the war? For I draw a wide distinction
between an opinion formed in a country, and the people
going to war in support_of that opinion. I have no objec-
tion to people in this country having a strong opinion
about Russia and Turkey; but I think we have been too
precipitate in transferring that opinion into acts, and rush-
ing into war. Had England abstained from war, and been
content to occupy the same ground as Austria and Prussia,
I believe the result would have been that Russia would
have left the Principalities, and re-crossed the Pruth ; and
I believe that, without a single shot being fired, you would
have accomplished the object which you are seeking. Now,
what are the grounds on which we are to continue this war
when Austria and the German States aro acquiescing in
these propositions ?- Is war a luxury ? People say, "Do
you deny the justice, the right of Turkey in this war?"
And it is 'assumed, if I admit the right of a country, that
I must immediately go to war to rectify a wrong. We are
much too hasty in doing this. If you say we are justified
in going on because a certain wrong has been done, and
(what used to be a cant phrase in Mr. Pitt's time) we want
indemnity for the past and security for the' future—well
probably es to the abstract merits of the questions between
the Russian and the Turkish Governments, it would be
difficult for me to give a verdict favourable to Russia.
But aro we to be the Don Quixotes to go and fight all over
the woild wherever anybody is wronged? If so, where iv
it to cod ? In all quarrels there is a right and a wrong ;
we are often mixed up with one side or the other ; and if
wo make up our minds to fight for the right, we shall never
be at peace. If we assume that the weaker power is in
the rigkt.„ we shall often be in the wrong. I believe that
littltts-lvell as little' people, are often very
troublesome; (A hugh.) But, assuming that wo desire
peace, and that it is desirable in the interests of this
country, that we should have peace 7 what ground is there,
on the score of honour, valour, or interest, to render it im-
possible for us to treat for peace on the terms mentioned
by the noble lord? The noble lord communicated that
proposition to us a few nights ago, and therefore it is com-
petent to us to discuss the grounds for continuing the
war. I maintain that neither our honour nor our interest
is involved in refusing the terms which have been pro-
posed. Our object is to protect our Turkish ally from the
attacks of Russia. The other question, as regards the fall
of Sebastopol, is not the point in question; it is a matter
of detail connected with the carrying on of the war. If
we took Sebastopol we would then treat of peace. lam
not going to argue against the power of England and
France. I believe that with their resources, properly ap-
plied, they are capable of doing anything. I admit you can
take Sebastopol ; that you can Occupy ten square miles of
hostile territory ; that you may build a town there ; that
you may build it of marble, and Surround it with a wall
stronger than that'of China ; having the command of the
sea and almost boundless wealth, you may carry there what
reinforcements and provisions you please; you may do all
this, bat still you would not thereby break the power of
Russia. All history shows that sheis a young but vigorous,
and, if you like, semi-barbarous nation, with an instinctive
consciousness of her own strength; and do you think that
she will ever consent to make peace with you whilst you
hold a portion of her territory ? (Hear, hoar.) I will sup-
pose you have taken Sebastopol, and, that object accom-
plished, I ask you is it worth the sacrifice? (Hear.) That
is the question. (Hear.) Does any one doubt that even
if you should subdue Sebastopol, it will cost the precious
sacrifice of the most valuable lives in the country ? I leave
the treasure expended out of the question. We can restore .
that, but you cannot restore the valuable lives that fall
in battle in the Crimda. These men are probably the most
energetic and- bravest—they have, certainly shown the
greatest fortitude and endurance of any men that ever
left this island—you may sacrifice these men if you like,
but you are bound to consider whether the object is great
enough to compensate for such a sacrifice. (Hear.) You
do not mean, I take it, to occupy the Crimea because you
have commenced the siege of Sebastopol. What, therefore,
is the object of taking it? The noble lord said that the
fall of Sebastopol—the stronghold of Russian power—
would go far to give that security to Turkey which was
the object' of the war. I deny the proposition that Sebas-
topol is the stronghold of Russian power. Sebastopol is
indeed a strong fortress at the extremity of the Russian
Empire, and a visible sign of her power, but you will not
touch the vitality of that power till yell in some way in-
terfere with the action of her government—till you strike
at her capital, or take away some of the fertile plains of
her southern territory, or make yourselves masters of the
rivers that flow into the Black Sea. Destroy Sebastopol
yon may, but the probability is that in ten years Russia
will come to London for a loan, and build it up again
stronger than before. (Hear, hear, and a laugh.) As for
the ships lying in Sebastopol, they are probably crazy
seventy-fours, and you could not do a greater ser-
vice to Russia than to destroy them, 'for she would
then build others of a better construction. In France
and England we do this with our own vessels. As to the
probable rebuilding of the fortress of Sebastopol his
tory furnishes a case in point. By the treaty of
-Utrecht in 1713, the French king consented. to
the destruction of the fortress of Dunkerque. England
sent over two commissioners to see the fortress dismantled.
The jetties were destroyed; a mole or bank was built across
the channel leading to the port. On two successive occa-
sions that treaty was renewed. A storm came on which
swept away the mole. A war broke out soon after between
Spain and England. The French Government took advan-
tage of the circumstance, and that fortress, which had been
raised under the direction of Vauban and fortified with all
the resources that art and science could supply, was
rebuilt and made stronger than : ever. It was on record
that in the seven years' war, forty years after it was de-
stroyed,
,Dunkerque, for the purpose of aggression, was
stronger by sea and more formidable than it was pre-
viously. More than 1,000 English merchant vessels were
taken by privateers which issued from that port, and their
value was estimated at 1,2-,0,0001. Look at Chefbourg
again. In the middle of the last century we were in pos-
session of that port and also of Toulon. But the power of
France was not destroyei thereby. In the same way you
would not destroy the power of Russia by the destruction
of Sebastopol. All that you would accomplish would bo
to leave a rankling wound and venom behind which would
only determine Russia to reconstruct the fortress and make
it stronger than ever. Some storm would sweep away
your mote if you should build one, and this event would
be much more likely to occur in the Black Sea than in the
Channel. But suppose Sebastopol utterly destroyed, were
there no other places, on the Black Sea coast, which might
by art and money be converted into as strong fortresses as
Sebastopol ? The real way to give security to Turkey was
not by destroying Sebastopol, but by improving the in-
ternal Government of Turkey. And is the continuance
of the war likely to further that improvement ? I
believe that singe the beginning of the war you have
done inure to demoralise Turkey than could ever be
accomplished in time of peace. What is wanted to
revive Turkey is reform in her Government and her
administration, a united people, and the development
of her resources.. She will not then present the odious
spectacle of wretchedness and impoverishment which she
now does. Then comes another 'question. You say that
you intend to make a treaty by which wo will bind the
Eive Powers together for the better treatment of the Chris-
tian subjects of Turkey. But have you considered the
whole extent of the consequences involved in that prin-
ciple ? You contemplatedoing by means of the Five Powers
what Russia did alone and by herself. Will not the critics
of the war in America and elsewhere say that we are wrong
in going to war to prevent Russia from doing that very
thing which we contemplate doing by ourselves in conjunc-
tion with others ? I can only
Five Heaven help Turkey
when the has the protectorate of ower instead of

supply- the Want by passing the bill, For, let it not be
forgotten, it was not intended to borrow froni soiled foreign
power a corps of troops ready disciplined and equipped ;
but what they were really going to do Would be simply
to levy rtereits from the !smeller German states, with
the connivance, indeed, of the sovereigns, but without
the cognisance of the Diet. (Hear, hear.) He knew it was
said that the custom in Germany was to grant to persons
who had completed their term of service in the landwehr
a passport for the purpose of emigration, and that such
passports ipso facto denaturalised the holders of them. He
very much doubted whether, notwithstanding this very in-
genious, if not very dignified proceeding, it would not be
in the power of a diet to offer serious impediments to the
levying of troops in this way. But suppose they succeeded
in thus smuggling out 10,000 mon as emigrants, what time
would he required to get them here ? The Government
statei that they had as yet entered into no negotiations on
the subject, and diplomatic proceedings at the German
court were proverbially glow. (Hear.) Then the men
were to be brought here, which could not be done in much
less than three mouths. A similar period mutt elapse be-
fore they were equipped, organised, and fit for service. If
the bill would not enable them to throw 10,000 men into
the 'Crimea in less than six mouths, what did they gain by
substituting foreign mercenaries for English soldiers?
(Hear.) Ho entertained no jealousy of foreigners, and
would be glad to see, not 10,0)0 but 40,030 men, such as
couipesed the German legion in the late war, fighting by
the ride of our troops. (Hoer.) The Germans who fought
with us in the late war were united to us by the ties of a
common cause; they were fighting aeain.t e common
enemy, that men who had overrun a great' part of Europe.
But what ties or interest in c tmmon would the persons
have with us who were proposed to bo enlisted by this
bill? Considering the time which it would take to send off
10,030 foreigners their place might easily be supplied by
British soldiers. ' Ho regretted to hear from the noble lord
that our army was short by 20,03) of the number voted by
Parliament. He regretted this statement, because it must
be gratifying to the Emperor of mein to learn that our
power of recruiting was nearly exhausted. If this were
so Government ought to render the service more attrac-
tive; Parliament would.gladly aid them in doing so. It
would be true economy, at such a moment as this, to
double the bounty on enlistment. If this and other mea-
sures were adopted, with the military ardour now
existing in this country; thousands 'would come flock-
ing in to enlist. Much had been said about raw recruits ;
but it should ever be remembered that those who bore the
brunt of the battle at Waterloo were not the veterans of
the Peninsula, but those who were commonly spOken of
as raw recruits. (Hear.) From the recent Austrian
treaty, there was every reason to hope that, in a week from
this time, a portion of her numerous troops would be
brought to our aid. He had not much reliance on that ;
but why should we not endeavour to organise the Turks,
as had been done with the Portuguese in the Peninsular
war ? The Secretary at War had spoken of the Turks
being celebrated for fighting behind stone walls ; this was
an unworthy observation, and laid the right hon. gentle-
man open to the same reproof which be had bestowed on
Sir E. B. Lytton for depreciating the aid of German volun-
teers. (Hear.) He was convinced it would be a great
assistance if we could organise an efficient body of Turks.
Then we had invaluable auxiliaries in our well-trained and
experienced Indian troops, comprising men of bravery,
such as Major Ed wardes. (Hear.) In proposing this
amendment he hoped he should not be charged with a fac-
tious course towards Government. Both sides of the house
admitted the necessity of carrying on the war with vigour
and energy; they only differed as to the means by which
this was to be done. The measure proposed, while tend-
ing to depress the energy of our own countrymen, would
increase the confidence of Russia. By acting in a spirit
of liberality towards our soldiers, the Government might
be able to send forth army after army of men such as those
who fought at Alma and Inkerman. (Hear.)
Mr. COBDEN—If I ask the permission of the house to
allow me to enlarge a little on the question before the house
I have this excuse, that the subject matter before us has
been ably and very fully discussed. There is another rea-
son why the question may be treated in a more general way
as affecting the conduct of the Government in carrying on
the war, and in their negotiations. We have heard a great
number of hon. members publicly declare that they refuse
to entertain the question on its merits, but they persist
in voting contrary to their own opinions, simply as
a vote of confidence in the Government. I must say I
think that, amongst all the evils which attach to a state
of war, it is not one of the least considerable that it has so
demoralising a tendency upon the members of this house
that we are called upon to vote contrary to our conscienti-
ous conviction, and to allow these votes to be recorded
where the explanation of those votes will not appear. It
was stated the other night by the noble lord the loader of
this house that proposals had been made on the part of
the Emperor of Russia through Vienna, for peace upon
certain bases, which have beea pretty frequently before
the world under the designation of the "four points." I
wish to draw attention to that subject; but before I do
so, let me promise that I do not intend to say one word with
regard to the origin of this unhappy war. I intend to
start froth the situation in which- we now find ourselves ;
I think that it is the province of this House of Commons
to express an opinion upon that situation ; and if it be not
as I am going to do, to argue in favour of peace upon the
terms announced by the Government, at all events I
think hon. members will see that it is absolutely necessary,
on the other hand—if the war is to go on, if we are to
carry on a war of invasion by land against an empire like
Russia—that it should be carried on in a very different
spirit and on a very different scale, from what it has
hitheito been. I think that both sides of the house will
occupy common ground, at least in this respect ; we shall
all recognise the propriety, nay, the necessity, before we
separate, of discussing these two views of this important
and critical question. Before offering an opinion on the
merits or desirability of a peace founded on these four
points, it will be necessary to ask ourselves what was the
cause, the object sought for in 'the war. I mean as a
matter of fact. It has always been one of my difficulties,
in arguing this question out of doors, with men of sense
end intelligence, that I never could conic to a very intel-
ligible understencilme with nay two people 44. to wha.t_were
the objects of the war. I have met with very respec-
table and well-educated men, who have toll me that the
object of the war was to open the Black Sea for merchant
vessels, not knowing that tho Black Sea was as free to the
merchant flags of all nations as the Bettie. Others have
had the impression that the war was to open the Danube,
to alloiv ships of all nations to go up the Danube, not
knowing that the traffic up the Danube in the last 10 years
has multiplied tenfold probably, and that all nations have
free access to it. I have heard it stated, and have soon it
recorded solemnly.at public, meetings, that we are at war
because we had a treaty with the Sultan, binding us to
give to him aid, and to maintain the integrity and inde-
pendence of his empire. At one of the most crowded and
exciting meetings ever held, which took place at Leicester,
a resolution was moved by a most intelligent gentleman,
seconded by another, and passed unanimously, to this
effect: "Resolved—that we are bound by the most solemn
treaties with the Sultan of Turkey; to defend the integrity
and independence of his dominions." Well, Lord Aber-
deen has ostentatiously declared in the House of Lords, as
if for the instruction of such gentlemen, that we had no
treaty before the war binding us to defend the dominions
of the Sultan. (Hear.) But the general ground of the
popularity of the war out of doors has no doubt been cf
another character. There has ,been a strong feeling that
Russia has not only absorbed and oppressed certain na-
tionalities, but that she has been the prime agent by which
Austria has been 'enabled to perpetuate her government
over unwilling subjects. I should say that that class of
people was fairly represented in tbis house by my lamented
noble friend the late member. for Marylebone. (Hear.) The
noble lord was one froni whom I differed entirely with re-
gard to his views on these questions of interference in the
affairs of foreign countries, but one for whose private vir-
tues, disinterested kindness, and boundless generosity I
shall ever entertain the greatest veneration. (Hear, bear.)
The late Lord D. Stuart, for twenty years, fairly repre-
sented that popular feeling out of -doors which was
directed especially against the Emperor of Russia,
and whose sympathies are centred mainly upon those
territories that lie contiguous. to that vast empire.
I used sometimes to say to him jocularly, " Your sym-
pathy is gergraphical ; it extends from the Baltic
to the Black Sea, bordering on the Russian empire ;
or
and if
,ever there bo Poles, Hungarians, Wallacbians,
Moblavians in distress,. you aro sure to be here to repre-
sent them. (Hear, hear.) And. if any unfortunate indi-
viduals from those countries should be refugees here from
oppression and misgovernment at home, they come na-
turally to you for succour." (Hear, hear.) Lord Dudley
Stuart represented a great amount of sympathy in the
country with reference to t. ego nationalities,; but now I
ask whether that force of public opinion which has been
founded upon the impression that we were going to war in
order to aid the Poles, Hungarians, and others, has not
been entirely delis-ive—whether it may not be put down
along with those other grounds which I have named—the
opening of the Black Sea, the free navigation of the Da-
nube, and the supposed treaty -with Turkey—as all equally
delusive so far as the people out of doors have relied on
the Government carrying on the war for these objects.
The Government knew that the three first did not exist ;
and they know well that they never intended to go to war
for the purpose of setting up the Hungarians, the roles,
or any of those oppressed nationalities. • I yield to no one
in my sympathy for these who aro struggling for liberty
in any part of the world. I respect the motives of those
who wish to join bands in aiding nationalities to attain
their independence or freedom ; but I never will pretend
to say that I can sanction a system of propagandism which
seeks to establish this or that nationality by force of arms,
or any influence, that England can bring to bear, because
that is violating a principle which I wish to see carried
out in the other direction, in 'opposition to those who in-
terfere with nationalities for the purpose of putting them
down. lam against interference with the affairs of other
countries for whatever object it may be sought. At the
same time I will admit that if they could show me that
a war was likely to advance liberty,- constitutional free-
dom, or national independence where it is a right, it
Would be a very great bribe to me indeed to acquiesce
in that war, or to see some compensation for the
multiplied evils that war brings in ' its train. We
now couinto what I presume is really statesmen's ground
Irma, an t at of a
for going to war. Thattis,f-Rto defend tdhehTurkish empire
naechtmheenseveral states of Europe within the
t limits. That has sent
your objet in carrying on
present
the present case. But I must say that
war with Russia
aseghaletimste tfhore
keenecproi b
has tended very much to embarrass the
phraseology which (Russell)
these mag-
this has been mixed up with a great deal of magniloquent
question.
I off last August before a meeting of
who started
the led
whole world; and since then
our slaty to mankind and
pThhrea nobleses, lord
one intended
bailliee and town councillors at Perth. Hetalkedthoerperoof.
he has frequently talked of this war as
The noble lord said Jet a city meet
immediate object of our
.tect the liberties of all Europe anidogt-11, cwiveilaisreedenwgoargledd.
in a just and necessary war, for no
d eown,penbd
nt
et
eo defendof u uroapne
. ancienthaavlel
maintaining the independence of Europe-
at the extreme west of a continent numbering some 200
wordand t ofom maintain anibno the eoiun r-
millions of inhabitants; and the theory isWtheatar
tehseirteu situated
da
great and growing power w ich threatens to overrun the
continent of Europe, to inflict upon it utter desolation,
like that of the Goths and Vandals, to eclipse its civilisa-
tion, and, in fact, doom it to barbarism and darkness. If
that
continentreally t
ob et
atihwe
af fact,
tdoes
pushingit notbbe ha
cokv e
thist e ofdpeelooigileeof
bar-
barismthe
lue
per
yatrbo,
otaey othear.)nh ethlAenpfaraeceshelonirfßeistEheengland does not pre-
o
fer everybody. At all events if you do,le
tr
pre-
tend
ts
nste set up
olor;tasuhtpto,
nonnsa(eit
yitooonus,Ny ti
fightwill
expect expect them to join you in fighting their
that all this phraseology, and declamation, battles.
Ir think
purpcse at the beginning, and has raised a fiend that will
its
not be very easily laid, will' by and bye disappear, when
we come to analyse more closely our position, and feel
the predicament in which we are placed. But I take ,it
for granted that the object of statesmen is to befriend

one. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) We are told by the
newspapers that there is a mixed commission sitting in
Vienna—a kind of court of appeal in the case of the Prin-
cipalities of Moldavia and Wallachia. Is not this the very
principle of interference against which we are contending
on behalf of Turkey and against Russia? Would it not be
more statesmanlike, instead of appealing to claptraps and
to heedless passions out of doors, instead of telling the peo-
ple of this country that Turkey has made more progress in
the last 50 years than any country under the sun, to ad-
dress ourselves to the real task and difficulty of this ques-
tion—how you can best reconstructand improve the inter-
nal state of Turkey. That is what you will have to do.
Make peace to-morrow, and Turkey will fall into a state of
collapse. If you attempt to leave it, she will fall into a
state of anarchy and utter decay. The noblelord (Palmer-
ston) jauntily told the house and the country on a former
occasion in the teeth of the statements of our own ambas-
sador, Lord Stratford de Redeliffe, and all the blue books,
and every person who recently travelled in Turkey, that
that country had progressed more in the last 20 years than
any other country in Europe. Well, what does Lord
Carlisle, the most recent traveller in Turkey, say? (Hear,
hear.) Lord Carlisle bears the following testimony to
the present condition of Turkey and the Turks :—" But
when you leave tho partial splendours of the capital,
and the great state establishments, what is it you find over
the broad surface of a land which nature and climate have
favoured beyond all others, once the home of all art .and
ill civilisation ? Look yourself—ask these who live there
—deserted villages, uncultivated plains, banditti haunted
mountains, torpid laws, a corrupt administration, a dis-
appearing people." Everybody bears testimony to the
Alone effect. All agree that the Mahomedan population of

rience that when they wished to hire men it was necessary
to pay thegreatest respect, not only to the feelings but to
the prejudi.res of the seafaring population, and he thought
that they should -be equally careful of the feelings of those
whom they asked to enlist as soldiers. When such a spirit
of martial ardour and enthusiasm pervaded all ranks it
was dangerous to do anything which might damp that ar-
dour. They had been told that as difficulties and dangers
increased, the martial ardour and enthusiasm of the people
had risen with them. That enthusiasm was to be attributed
to the purest spirit of patriotism ; but if the impression went
abroad there was no necessity for such exertions, that Go-
vernment had a large reserve of foreigners whom they could
enlist if our people do not come forward, thelatter would not
be so ready to face the dangers and hardships of war. The
measure was objectionable, if considered with respect to
the effect it would have on the continent of Europe, it
would be looked on as a confession of weakness, of a weak-
ness which had. no existence in reality. The events of the
last six months had tended very much to raise the cha-
racter of England as a great military power. Without
any great previous preparation they had, by means of their
magnificent steam navy, conveyed an army three thousand
miles from home, and had actually landed in the Crimea
a larger force than that of the great military nation their
Ally. Government would have some excuse for their mea-
sure if they could say the recruiting power of the country
was exhausted, and that it was necessary to look to
foreigners. 13at it could not be said that the recruiting
power of the country was exhausted when not a single re-
giment of the Irish or Scotch militia had been embodied.
lie would wish the house to consider what effect this change
in the constitution of tho British at my would have on the
confidence which the French army now felt in it. That
mutual confidence had been ono great cause of the success
of the Allies in the Crimea. Th'er French could not have
the same confidence in a band of ineserenary foreigners, as
in the English, Irish, and Scotch, whose valour they load
seen tried in many a herd-fought field. He opposed the
bill because ho considered it dangerous, unnecessary, and
impolitic. •
A messenger from the Lords was introduced, who an•
nonneed that their lordships had agreed to the Militia Bill
without amendments.
Mr. R. J. PHILLIMORE could not but admire the
moral courage of the hon. member for the West Riding
(Mr. Cobden), but he was surprised that a person of his
his acute mental power did not see that the arguments of his
.speech had afforded the most complete answer to the object
of it. A nation so great and powerful as ours could not
afford to be mean ; but even if it was to be reduced to a
matter of calculation, he was prepared to show that they
had adopted the safest, as well as the noblest course, in de-
fending Turkey against the aggression of Russia. Those
members who supported the Government were charged
with having left their convictions in one lobby and carried
their votes into another, but he would suggest to hon.
gentlemen opposite whether a private individual might not
deem it his duty to submit his judgment to the authority
of those who from their position were poseessed of official
knowledge and information on the subject. He did not
look on the measure with eyes of affection, and regretted
its necessity; but he placed confidence in the statements
of her Majesty's Government, and of the Commander-in--
Chief, and that gallant officer had declared it was necessary
as a means of affording relief to the troops in the Crimea.
Mr. SANDARS referred to a petition which the right
hon. member for Buckinghamshire had presented a few
nights ago from the borough of Wakefield, which he had
the honour to present. That borough was situate in the
centre of the West Riding, and he believed that the peti-
t:
hiooleann tw ryh which
sentimentslhf atdi
mnboeete
had
an
dlayd
been
et ent
ega
districts,v ae largengiven,
the meebuttingf ethhxe pe rwhe
ohs suoesl dee
would have been covered with petitions against the bill.
Mr. DIGBY SEYMOUR said the hon. gentleman who
had last spoken had said so much respecting a meeting of
his constituents, that it had compelled him to rise in order
to present the house with a counter fact. Now, he had
had to appear before His constituents at Sunderland, and
at the meeting there were more than 2,000 persons as-
sembled. The result was, that all present had raised their
hands in favour of his conduct in supporting the present
bill. Those 2,000 persons were not wanting in intelligence
and ability to judge on the matter. (Hear.) He should .
not have addressed the house hod not the hon. member
who had last spoken asserted that the expression of the
meeting of his constituents was the general opinion of the
country.
Lord LOVAINE mast support the opposition to the bill,
despite the arguments he had heard from the other side of
the house. He could not see any splendid effort for the
mistakes of the past in the passing of a bill which was
derogatory to the honour of the British soldier and the
nation to which he belonged. He should like to inquire
on what principles the enlistment would be carried on in
Germany ; for, from that country, as far as he could learn,
the troops were to be drawn. They had not been told
anything about that. How was the enlistment to be con-
trived ? He knew not if it were thought that men could
be procured from those emigrating ; but, if so, the scheme
would fail. If from the German ranks, that would fail
likewise. The men, he thought, would be those who had
not shown a proper respect for the laws of their country,
and were willing to fight for another. He should be un-
worthy of ever having stood in the ranks of those now
serving before Sebastopol if ho suffered it, even for a mo-
ment, to go forth that foreigners were ever to be regarded
as equal to them in courage and good conduct. As far as
he could learn, no foreign regiment we had ever engaged
—always excepting the Hanoverian Legion, who were
lighting for their own country—could be relied upon for
the same amount of service as the British troops. (Hear.)
Sir E. PERRY said that, although he felt that the argu-
ments on the subject matter of the debate had been com-
pletely exhausted, he yet wished to protest against the
language in which lion. gentlemen on the opposite side of
the house, and on that, his side, too, described the men
whom Government proposed to enlist. He considered that
the terms in which hon. gentlemen had stigmatised those
men was not becoming a deliberative assembly. Ho would
now venture to notice, in a few words, the speech of the
hon. member forithe West Riding (Mr. Cobden), and much
as he admired his talents, and coincided with his views in
politics, he must say that the impression which that speech
bad made on the house was similar to that which it had
made on him (Sir E. Perry), and that was, that it was ex-
tremely inopportune. Unless he was mistaken in the
state of affairs, when lie considered that England was
at present in a very criticaLkosition—lio—ili.ugLi-
-4},,,A,_ ,hew- r5.11-nr Db. directed to one
ohje,:t —to reli,ve the honour and interests of the
country from hei,ig suljected to a crisis suoh ai had not
been yet known, and that discussions as to the origin of
the ivar, or even the coniltut of the -.car, score out of place.
Her Majesty's Government were now holding out
.their
hand to the German feeling that if they got them to enlist
under our banner, wo should give to that great nation an
opportunity of placing- themselves on a level with the
other great Powers of Europe. (Hear.)
Mr. EVELYN trusted the C overnmeut would not pledge
itself to au indefinite prolongation of the war. It would
be most impolitic to continuo a war which might last for,
perhaps, 10 or 20 years, if they had all the objectsfor which
they went to war offered. If, for the purpose of degrading
Russia, they were to continue raising their terms during
the progress of the war, they would be only prolonging the
conflict without any definite advantage to the country.
Mr. BENTINCI( was anxious to state briefly the reasons
which would induce him to give his vote against this mea-
sure. He fully admitted the importance which must at-
tach to a vote upon the question, and an attempt had been
made to give additional importance to the vote to which
they wore about to come, by a threat thrown out by her
Majesty's Government that the rejection of the measure
would lead to their resignation. He was not at all alarmed
by that threat. It had been too often made before to pos-
sess the merit of novelty; and so far as he could gather the
feelings of the house and of the country, neither the one
nor the other world very much lament the loss. No man
was less interested than himself (the hon. member) in the
struggles of party warfare, but if a vote of want of confi-
dence in the present Ministry had been brought forward,
he would have given it his support without the slightest
hesitation, because ho believed, whatever their ability
might be, it was impossible for such a body of men—linked
in a coalition without any political combination—to go-
vern this country with any advantage. (Hear.) He fully
concurred with what fell the other night from the
hon. gentleman the member for West Surrey (Mr.
Drummond), and he regretted extremely that the
house ha-1 not been called unon to come to a vote upon
that question. He believed it was the opinion of the coun-
try generally that not only the great sufferings of our
troops in the Crimea, but also a great portion of the losses
which they had sustained, might be attributed to want of
energy and ability on the paart of those who had the con-
duct of the war ; and therefore he (the hon. member) re-
peated his regret that the house had not been called upon
to come to a distinct vote upon the subject. He fully con-
curred in the majority of the arguments which had been
urged against the measure.
Lord EBRINGTON said that ho approached this mea-
sure with considerable doubt, as one that had justly ex-
cited the constitutional jealousy on the part of the people
of this country, but ho was loath to believe that his noble
friend the Lord President, or tho noble lord the member
for Tiverton, or his noble friend Lord Lansdowne, would
embark in any measure which prejudiced the liberties of
the people of England. He was satisfied that the bill
might do some good ; and even if it should fail of its ob-
ject, that at all events it woeld do no harm. He was sur-
prised to hoar the last speaker putting forward the
abandonment of principle on the part of members of the
present Government as a reason for opposing this bill, for
he (Lord Ebrington) thought he recollected a Government,
(the Government of Lord Derby) in which principles very
different from each other were held in the same Cabinet—
free trade and protection being left an open ques-
tion. He was therefore rather surprisAl to bear the hoe.
gentleman speak in that way. Thank Heaven he was in
no way responsible for the principles of the Government,
for he had belonged to a party, which did not require a
change of principle in that way. In his opinion the ques-
tion before them was not whether the Government had
done all that could be done for the war, but whether the
measure before them was advisable or likely to prove use-
ful in the present state of our affairs. But ninny hon.
gentlemen in opposing the bill, had forgotten what they
had heard so-often that this was a war of principle and of
national good faith undertaken in defence of the liberties
of Europe. He denied the apathy of Europe on the subject,
for he believed with the hon. member for Devonport, that
the Germans, differing from their monarchs and the Rus-
sian sympathies of their aristocracy, and that a large part
of the Sclavonien population sympathised in the objects
of this war, viewed as England viewed it, a conflict
and a struggle in the cause of liberty and civilisation in
Europe. He was sorry that any man should be stigmatised
as sicarii and cut-throats, and should be denied that com-
forting and elevating assurance which results from fighting
in a cause which they believed to be just. He believed
that the stream of emigration from Germany was occasioned
not so much by' the denseness of their population as by
their impatience of the rule under which they had been
condemned to dwell, an he knew no better initiation into
the English love of liberty than that they should fight side
ty side with our soldiers.
Mr. P. O'BRIEN said he would not have risen if any
other Irish member had.exhibitcd any disposition to speak
on the question ; but in the absence of any such hope, and
after the eloquent speeehe; which he had heard•against the
bill, especially from the hon. member for Enniskillen (Mr.
Whiteside), and after the vote which he himself had given
the other night, he could not do other than state his reasons
efs?r giving that vote. This was not a party question. The
question was whether, at a period when we had no oppor-
tunity of finding among our militia trained soldiers capable
of assisting in the war, all assistance from any quarter was
to be denied to those brave men most properly eulogised in
that house, who were fighting in defence of the liberties of
Europe? He was surprised to hear the number of antagonistic
arguments brought forward in support of the same conclu-
sion. The member for the West Riding trusted that neither
Germans nor Swedes would be engaged to fight for us, be-
cause we were not a military nation, for we were a com-
mercial nation and a naval power, and could protect our
Manchester manufacturers by means of our ships. Such
was hie utilitarian view. But the member for one of the
divisions of Surrey wished to have an overwhelming force,
and then by his vote denied the Government so many even
as 10,000 soldiers. The position which they ought on this
occasion to take up would be: either by azt expres4 vote of

Turkey is dying out owing to their own nameless vices
(Hear, hear.) Their social state is not generally known'
)ecause it is indescribable. Lord Carlisle restrains himself
from referring to their social condition. Dr. Halley stated
in itllnchester that his brother, who was fur 35 years phy-
sician to the embassy in Constantinople, told him that the
population of Constantinople, though continually recruited
from the provinces, had. diminished during the last 20
years, and he attributed this to the indescribable social
4ate of the Turks. (Cheers.) Will you promote their
improvement by war ? From the moment you landed in
Gallipoli, when the energy and activity displayed by the
French was such that a poor Pacha died from pure die-
traction of mind—(laughter)—frem that moment to the
present you have done everything to humiliate, discourage,
and demoralise still further their population of the Turk-
ish capital. (Cheers.) Here is what a friend, a colonel in
the army, now serving in the Crimea, writes :—" We are
degrading the Turk as fast is we can ; he is now the scaven-
ger of the two armies as far as he can be made so. He
won't fight, and his will to work is little better ; he
won't be trusted again to try the former, and now the
latter is all he is allowed to do. When there are en-
trenchments to be made, or dead to be buried, the
Turks do it. They do it as slowly and lazily as they can,
but do it they must. This is one way of raisins the Turk ;
it is propping him up on one aide to send him headlong
down a deeper precipice on the other." You have an
hospital at Scutari where you have thousands of wounded
cause of Turkey. What more natural than to suppose
Englishmen who received their wounds fighting in the
that they would at once receive every care and at-
tention from the Turkish population of Constantinople, -
amounting to 700,000 persons. (Hear.) Yet everything
necessary for the wounded has to be sent from this coun-
try ? (Cheers.) Can anything more clearly prove the utter
want of anything like administration or government in
Turkey ? Does any one suppose that if our soldiers had
been thus wounded in the cause of Prussia that the ladies
of Berlin, which had not half the population of Constanti-
nople, would allow them to remain without lint and other
necessaries ? Would there be any want of nurses ? Is it
not the fact that we have been obliged to send out every-
thing? Either the Turks despise, detest, and spit upon us
for our pains, or they are too feeble and incompetent to do
anything for us. (Hear.) The people of this country
have been misled on this subject. The noble lord was, no
doubt, speaking his honest convictions when he made the
statement he did about the great improvement of Turkey;
but if so the ignorance of one in his high position has had
a sinister effect on the public opinion of England ; for it
feeling in this country that the
Tuarske no
were
self government, and that the
was the
capable prevailingof
Mahomedan population were capable of being re-
stored to independence, and that if we fought their
battles against the external enemy, they would be able to
constitute a strong state, and carry on the functions of a
great empire. This is now the impression in this country,
but a greater delusion never existed. (Hear, hear.) All
travellers, from Lamartine to the most recent, were unani-
mous in their testimony as to the decay and utter help-
lessness of the Turks. This, then, is the great difficulty
you have to contend with, and it is far better that you
should address yourselves to remedy it than that you
should waste the precious lives and treasure of the country
in the destruction of Sebastopol, which will not serve you
in the least, and which will be built up again iu ten years
time. Besides, if you make up your minds to take Russia
into a partnership with you in the treaty, if you contem-
plate a quintuple alliance, Russia forming one of the
parties to it, what greater folly can there be than to go
on fighting with that power which is, after all, the
next neighbour of Turkey. (Hear.) I would rather leave
this question to be settled by the chances'of peace than of
war. As ani llustration of what may be done by peace, I
will quote one example. We engaged in war with Ame-
rica, in 1812, about the right of search and other questions
relative to the rights of neutrals. After being unable to
settle the question in that way, we made a peace, and a
treaty was concluded, in which there was no allusion made
to the subject matter of the dispute at all. (Hoar, hear,
and a laugh.) The question of the right of search or the
rights of neutrals was never touched in the treaty. Peace,
however, was made, which has lasted now forty years.
What was the effect of this peace? In the meantime
America has grown stronger, and we perhaps have grown
wiser—though I am not so sure of that. (Laughter.)
Well, we go to war now with a European power, and we
voluntarily abandon those very belligerent rights which
led to the war of 1812. (Hear, hear.) Peace solved the
difficulty, which perhaps never would have been solved if
they had been at war to this hour. (Hear, hear.) Apply
this illustration to the case of Turkey. • Suppose you agree
to a peace, it is difficult to say what may happen to dis-
embarrass you from .the difficulty. Your difficulty with
Russia has very much of a personal difficulty. Tha Em-

pc‘ror *.of -
Russia no
oirmia
sLy
of,,eunti energy—a man of indomitable will,
which b.'
ivory man Iris a limit, and his successor may have diff?-
rent views. It is because you do not give sufficient credit
e was not able to control. Well, but the We of
to the course of events that you involve the country in
long and ruinous wars in order to solve the difficulty.
(Hoar, hear.) Internal koublos may arise in Russia her-
self, or perhaps during the peace you mar succeed in set-
ting up a more stable government and power in Turkey
than the present. If you enter into a quintuple alliance
you will have Prussia and Austria in conjunction with
Franco and England, taking care that the terms of the
agreement are carried out fairly. These aro events that
may happen, and why not take the chance of them
for the accomplishment of the object about which you
are engaged in. war ? Your honour is not in-
volved in the destruction of Sebastopol, but in the
withdrawal of the Russians from the Principalities, and
that has been effected ; you would not therefore sacrifice
honour by now making peace. I believe that all parties
have had such a lesson from the • war that they are not
likely to rush hastily into it again. (Hear.) I believe
Russia now thinks that the courage and self-reliance of a
free people are more formidable than she calculated upon
—(hear, hear)—and that her semi-civilised population
would Snot be anxious to meet the energetic people of
Western Europe again. (Hear, hoar.) On the other
hand we have had some proof that it is no easy matter to
carry on war on the enemy's territory at a distance of
3,000 miles from home. (Hear.) I believe that all parties
and Governments want to get out of the war. The great
difficulty is that a spirit has been raised and expectations
held out by the unstatesmanlike course pursued by some
members of the Government, and especially by the noble
lord the member for the City of London, and the noble
lord the member for Tiverton, which it may be difficult to
satisfy or to allay. (Hear, hear.) The right hon. gentle-
man the Secretary at War said that if Sebastopol was not
taken in the first campaign it would not be taken at all.
Are yen going to stake all upon one throw of the dice ?
And if yen do not take Sebastopol in the first campaign,
are you going to give it up? I don't think the people of
England calculated on this. There stands little between
you and
peace on the terms mentioned. Take connsel from
the hon. member for Aylesbury, who told you that Russia.
would soon have 200,000 men in the Crimea. Ido not al-
ways agree with the hon. gentleman in his opinions, but I
am always disposed to listen to his facts. He tells you
the war is only beginning. Now, therefore, is the time to
accept moderate terms of peace. You may succeed. Do
not suppose that I wish to throw any discouragement in
the way of France and England, for I see no possible
limit to their power if they desire to exercise it in the
duel which is going
on in the Crimea. (Hear, hear,
hear.) But again I revert to the question, what are you
to get to compensate you for the sa %rifle° of life and
treasure? (Hear, bear, hear.) The hon. member
for Aylesbury tells you that next year Russia will
. overrun the Turkish provinces of Asia Minor. That will
o ssay a word
be an indemnification to her for the fall of Sebastopol.
The Turkish army, he has told yen, will melt away in the
next campaign when the Russians appear. Where, then,
will be the advantaee in carrying on the war ? Before I
sit down
I
in the Crimea. I have here a letter from a friend of mine
i nthe Crimea,nl beg .to
dt ed the 2l
nDtaheeern conditionber.
H of
Ho
s i yosu—r , army
The
people of England will shudder when they read of what
the army has suffered. (Hear.) And then they will hardly
know one half. I cannot imagine that either pen or pencil
can depicture it in its frightful reality. (Hear.) The line
are greater sufferers than the artillery—though there is not
much to choose between them. On a stormy wet night,
when the tents were blown down, the sick, the wounded,
t of o
aad the dying huddled together in a frightful mass for
warmth and shelter." (Hear, hear.) What a frightful
picture of the condition of our army ! I have heard
rumours that accounts have come of 100 men perishing at
night in the trenches. (Hear') We have heard and know
that they have worked up to their knees in mud for twelve
hours a day, and have returned to no fire, or shelter when
they left. (Hear, hear.) If you could consult these brave
men, and ask them what their wishes are, I believe they
would answer that their first and pre-eminent wish was to
do their duty, and to accomplish their mission. (Cheers.)
They would tell you that they were sent to capture Sebas-
topol, and their first duty was to take it or to perish in
the attempt. (Cheers.) But if you were to consult the
hearts of these men, and wished to know what the strong
and anxious hopes of these men have been, even in the
midst of the bloody struggles of Alma and Inkerman, I
believe it is that the battles in which they have been en-
gaged may have the effect of restoring them again to their
hearths and homes. (Hear, hear.) They are, at all
events, entitled to the sympathy and consideration of the
house an .t the country. (Hear, hear.) You must admit,.
I am sure, whatever the result of the siege be, that
it will involve an immense sacrifice of precious
lives; and, unless yott can show that the object you have
to accomplish in contending for the mastery cannot other-
wise bo obtained, then I say that you ought to encourage
Government to look with favour on any propositions for
peace which come from the enemy, and oven if you make
a mistake in accepting peace, you will at least have the
consolation of knowing that you have erred on the side of
humanity. (Cheers.)
Mr. CORRY had no intention of entering into a general
discussion on the policy of the war, but would confine
himself to the bill, which was more particularly the sub-
ject of the debate. He had voted against the measure
from a conviction that it was mos; objectionable, not so
much on constitutional as on moral grounds. It' would
have a very bad moral effect both at home and abroad.
He never recollected a measure that was so unpopular
with all classes, and with all political persuasions. He was
convinced that if members had voted on Tuesday in accord-
ance with their convictions, and without regard to the
threats held out, the Government would have been left in
a minority. He did not mean to say that the house ought
never to consent to 'an unpopular measure, for it was some-
times their duty to stem the tide of popular prejudice.
He had held office in the navy department with his right
hon, frienci the Secretary for War, and he knew from ex

want of confidence to declare that they thought the Go- London, or other places in the country, the whole people
vernment unfit. to carry on the war, because they were of England would rise up as one man against them.
Russian in thnr sympathies ; or, if they thought them a Sir J. FITZGERALD intimated that, for the reasons
responsible body, why. deny them the power which they he had stated on a former evening, he should give his sup-
were required to exercise, and for which power they meant port to the bill.
to hold thorn responsible? He said he was not a Censer- Lord J. RUSSELL, who rose in obedience to loud calls
vative, although, from want of other arrangements, he was
obliged to sit ou that side of the house. (Loud laughter.) from his side of the house, said—Mr. Speaker, I can
It seemed to him a strange argument against the bill to I hardly think it necessary to enter again into the argu-
cell the men mercenaries, and yet to encourage the increase meats which have been urged in favour of this bill; for
of bounty, as though a pound made a patriot. (Hear.) ' while I have no doubt the gentlemen who have spoken to-
But the lion. member for the West Riding said that we had i night are thoroughly persuaded of the soundness of their
no interest to fight for in this war, and asked why we
should send eut-throats—condottieri to cut the throats of objections, it appears to me, after hearing their speeches,
the people of Europe ? He (Mr. O'Brien) said that his ob- that these speeches amount to nothing more than a repug-
ject was not to cut the throats of all Europe—(laughter)— nance to, and a
Ndoecwla,ration against, the employment of
but his object was to save the throats of our men in the , foreign t
Crimea by this measure, seeing that hadnot timely I confess at once that if we had
we a 250,090 British troops, I should think that number quite
supply of trained men. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. COWAN said the position of the house on this ques-
tion sufficient to carry on the war at the commencement, and.
that it is quite unnecessary to resort to the assistance of
tion reminded him of a scene in which he had mingled very
recently at a fire, which threatened to destroy a poor man's foreign troops. But when I state the position in which
property. The first engine, though it was public
property,
,we are in, lam met with two different answers. The first
useful,
was in bad condition, but all laboured to make it s• that ei the hon. member who moved the rejection of
member b the help of another egine beging to thc hon.
himself, the fire was got under. lon
But only s„td,,,„ the bill. After having stated all the objections to•the
they teed wrangled ever the engines, instead of employing. ' employment of foreigners, and alluded to what I /noes
them, then the prorerty must have been destroyed. And :t.
ue l with regard to the number of recruits, and the on-
such was their poeition that night with reference to the ;tarol') ' '
\var. It was his opinion that in resistieg this bill the 01)-and of those recruits, he seys "How can you h
;lee , -a
position were acting a part vete, unworthy of the gallant I so imprudent as to inform `Nelle of Russia of the
helms who were so valiantly fielding our battles in the 1 deficiency in our army ?" sir, if the house had been
Crimea. It was to be regretted that- there were no tettrterY 1 readily disposed to place the powers sought by this bill is
ofticers of experience iu the house to testify to the necessity 1 the bands of the Government, I would not hems been
of the measure. forced to state the ciremnstences Idi I. (Ministerial
Mr. A. SMITII said that the house was of one accord in 1 cheers)
I tbi lc 1 unfair—after urging every
desiring that this war should be carried on with vigour and 1 (o,ll)ijenei,t,inonagt::intshtne.iltuill-tligiVilt"eleurdcevouring to rouse popular
determination, but he could not think that object would
be attained by the adoption of such a bib as the present. reason in its favour, "slalt)l\ 'C
n you be so imprudent as to
when plain facts are stated as a
True, We were engaged with a Power which had gigantic tell the truth ?" me hon. a learned gentleman who
resources at its command, but be was not on that account spoke last but one
to be lees confident of the result ; for he believed that su-
periority of numbers was more than counterbalanced I:trionots, Lite usasid'"
perish."
cannotTnat, • again, is a somewhat If gave‘4'`'
anda''
s'gv oe r onof awivtehroyntdiffforeeriegntt
extra-
by the determined spirit of a free.and independent people. ordinary answer—and I confess I cannot agree with the
Nor did he think that any vassal army could long maintain hon. and learned member. (Laughter.) I say it is objec-
the struggle against such gallant men as won the heights tionable, no doubt, to be forced to ask for the aid of fo-
of Alma, and gained the glorious victory of Inkerman. reign troops in addition to our 150,000
Believing that it would be little less than an insult to send same time, Ido not wish to see England perish.
to the reinforcement of such soldiers the hireling troops of For my part, Iready to avail myself
am
et e
rt
sh. e)
of every means I
the petty German sovereignties he should not hesitate to
vote against the bill. can for the successful prosecution of the war. - (Hear.) I
am not ashamed to own I wish the war were terminated
Mr. L&ING said he saw no reason against the employ- with success to ourselves. (Hear, hear.) It am_ared
ment of foreign troops. Was it not true that the sympa- to me that it was advisable for the Government re"
to ore-
thies of the German people were all along with the Western pose this measure to the house ; but, says the hoe. -and
Powers in this war? The fact had been admitted by the learned gentleman, " this is a most unconstitutional
Russian party in Prussia ; for they said, if the heads were practice, and ought not now to be adopted." Now,
counted, the majority would be in favour of the war. He it seems to me that there never was a case
in which
could not bring himself to vote against the measure, feeling it was more legitimate for the Ministers to say, "If we
as he did strongly in favour of it. cannot have these powers which we consider necessary for
Mr. W. E-DITNCOMBE had no confidence that the the successful prosecution of the war, let those conduct the
Government would carry on this war vigorously. What war who think they can do so without the aid of any
was the course which they had hitherto pursued ? Why, foreign force." It is asserted that in making such a de-
instead of making the preparations which were necessary claration we are acting a most unworthy part; but what
for the war, they had always been " toe late" in their ope. would be said of us if we attempted to carry on haterations. The result had been most unsatisfactory, and they without the powers we now require, and tailed, and on
had nothing to show the country but an ill•definetl treaty being afterwards reproached, we turned round and ob-
with Austria, which had been laid upon the table a few served, "Itis no wonder we did not bring the war to a
nights ago. He asked the Government to explain to Par. successful issue because you refused us those powers."
liament why it was that they were always the last in. (Hear, hear.) It appears to me that the arguments on
stead of being the first in commencing operations—why this subject have been very nearly exhausted, and that the
they had not been energetic and active from the first? The repugnance of hon. gentlemen opposite to the bill is not to
right hon. baronet the member for Droitwich had the be overcome. I give them all credit for sincerity of feel-
other evening clearlypointedout objections against the Aus- ing that repugnance, but Ido think, in point of argument,
trian occupation of the Danubian Principalities. That oc- considering the position of our troops, and taking into ac-
count what the Secretary at War has stated, and what I
Pacha, and the result had been that the army of General have been forced to disclose, that there are really no good
rounds against the employment of these foreign troops.
Dannenberg had been allowed to march to the Crimea. If g
the Government had any influence with the Austrian Go- But the inconsistency of those who argued against the bill
vernment, they should have exercised itlong ago, andhave is not to be slighted. They say, "These men you intend
proceeded to carry their policy into effect. And again, why to take into your service are mercenari
from mercenaryes—they will be
did they not make representations to the Turkish Govern- induced to enter your employment . mo-
ment ?It was quite evident that the expedition to the Lives—only think of engaging men to fight in your cause
Crimea had been begun and carried on without adequate for a consideration." Then, they add, " Rely on the pa-
means. If the Government had shown more energy and triotism of the people." Now, we say, doing full credit
determination, the army in the East would have re- to the enthusiasm of the people, that we cannot find a mufti-
ceived stronger reinforcements, and in less time. Now, dent number of properly qualified recruits. (Hear, hear.)
what was the measure introduced into that house ? Why, It is next said—" Give recruits a larger bounty than is now
one which would enable the Government to hire foreign paid." Although they object to employing foreign troops
mercenaries—a measure which was most distasteful to the for a consideration, they say—" In entering upon a great
people, and which was quite unnecessary in itself. He be- struggle like this, for God's sake don't scruple about in-
lieved the feelings and spirit of the country pressed forward creasing the bounty by 30s. or 405." (Hear, hear.) Well
as one man to assist in the war. This measure was hostile sir, I say, giving every credit for the conscientious an
to the feelings of the people, and was opposed to their pure nature of the opposition which has been offered, I
interests, and to the power which this nation possessed. cannot see the necessity of entering farther into this argu-
(Hear, hear.) ment. But there is a question which has been raised by
Mr. V. SCULLY said the question before the house was the hon. member for the West Riding, into which Ido
the third reading of the Foreign Enlistment Bill—whether not wish to enter at length, but I think it advisable, as
they would give her Majesty power to enlist foreign the question has b
thee en started by him, to give some ex-
soldiers to assist her own soldiers in the field of battle ? planation before debate is closed. The hon. gentle-
man said he would not go into the origin of the war, and
He should vote for the measure on two grounds—first,
yet his whole argument was founded on a supposed origin
numbersbecause the men wore required to oppose the large numbers
of the war, which is not the true origin. He supposed
of men who could be brought into the field by the Emperor
that my noble friend the Secretary of State for the Home
of Russia, who, it should be remembered, did not consult
a body of men like the House of Commons upon the subject Department and I were disposed to enter into a war of
of the war, but who, being the Executive himself, issued Propagandism ; he then made a very just and true
reflection on the evil of entering upon a war for mere
what orders he thought proper. Another reason why he
should vote for the bill was, that, were he the Executive motives of chivalry, and said we had engaged in the
himself, he should most certainly not hesitate as long ache Pan
resent struggle of Christianism against barbarism without
any call upon us to do so. But this war originated in
had a shilling in his pocket, to procure the assistance of all
attempt at aggrandisement by Russia. The attempted ag-
the foreigners he could get ; then why should he refuse to
the Government that which he should do were he in liable
by Russia began in a most unjust and unjusti-
power. The hon. and learned gentleman then referred to a fiable aggression, and it would have ended, if not resisted,
in the possession, by Russia, of Constantinople, and in a
letter which he had himself addressed about six weeks ago
to the Chief Secretary for Ireland respectinn, the conduct Preponderance, therefore, on her part, which would have
of the Earl of Bandon, theLord-Lieutenant of Cork county, been dangerous to the state of Europe. If that was the
and the sectarian feeling he had shown in officering the legitimate cause of the war, surely it was justifiable to say
militia with Tories and Protestants, whilst the groat bulk that if our enemy were successful barbarism would tri-
ef the men were Catholics. Ho would not read to the umph ; and, on the contrary, that if our enemy were
do-
house the answer he had received to that letter. (Cries of feated, civilisation would have the victory. (Hear.) This
" Oh," and " Read, read.") No, ho Would not read it, for is no mere abstract theoretical defence of civilisation. The
two reasons —ono of which would probably satisfy those war itself was not a thing so unforeseen. And is it a war
hon. members who called upon him to do so, namely, that which is so entirely without a motive ? So far from it,
he had not received any answer. (Laughter.) The other some 25 years ago the Emperor Napoleon predicted that
rcaiou was, that the house would excuse him from reading the next great war which would take place in Europe
a private document. (ll.enewed laughter.) After some would have its beginuing in an attempt by the Emperor of
further rematke, the hon. and learned gentleman caul be Russia to posecss himself of the Turkish empire, and he
would give hie vote in favour of the third red ling of the said if anything could unite the two nations of England
bid. and France it would be the cause of resisting such an ag-
gression as t'...at. Put there is one circumstance, and a
most rein3rlzable circumstance, with regard to which Na-
' pole°, has proved himself to be in error. It was supposed
by the E iiperer Napoleon that when Russia would make
that attempt, anti England and France would join to op-
pose her, that Austria, also having an c3e upon the spolia-
tion of Turkey, would be a confederate with Russia, and,
by joining her army with her, would battle any resistance
that coul.l be hr ug'it against them. But, to the honour
of Auitik, this is not the case. The Emperor of Aust., is.
hes been no patty to this aggression ; on the contrary, be
hes had the wisdom to tee that, whatever share of the
spoil he could get, his own empire would become so en-
feebles! by the success of Russia, that it could not exist
many years as an independent kingdom. And, sir, whet
was the proposition made to England-not fur the parti-
lieu of Turkey, but supposing she should fall to pieces?
It was that the Danubian provinces should be put under
the sole protectorate of Russia—that England should have
a certain share of the spoil (Candice, I think)—that there
should be extension or existence of tree institutions in the
provinces inhabited by Christians—and that the kingdom
of Greece should not be increased. It was, in fact, for an
increase of Russian power with a careful bargain that there
should be no increase of those free institutions—civil pro-
gress and education, which were to be exreetedfrom the pro-
fessions of the Sultan. We declined this attempt to spoliate
the territory of the Sultan, and I stated what were the
reasons which induced the Government to come to that
decision.- I even went on to flatter the Emperor of Ruse
sia, and to praise what I thought to be the wise, prudent,
and judicious policy wuich had influenced him for many
years past. But now war has taken place, and we are
asked what are the terms upon which we will treat for
peace. The lion. gentleman the member for the West.
Riding says that, as the Principalities are not occupied by
Russia, and that as the demands made on the Sultan have
been granted, we have nothing more to do than to sign a
treaty of peace. But, sir, I say that, having gone to a
large expenditure of blood and treasure to defend the in-
dependence of Turkey, I think it would be most unworthy
to place things iu the same state as they wore in two years
ago, and thus to leave the Emperor of Russia in possession
of all the means of subduing Turkey, which he had two
years ago, without the existence of any combination of
strength against him. (Hear.) Well, having said thus
much, let us go into the general nature of the terms upon
which we think there may be a termination of the war,
I quite agree with the lion, gentleman, who says, that if
we can get an adequate security for peace, we ought not,
for a mere vague and undefined object, continue the
miseries of war. Tho Government have no wish, no de-
sire, to continue the war for any vague or undefined pur-
poses, or, as the Russian organs say, to dismember the
Russian empire and to deprive her of a great part of her
territory. I must say that the four bases appeal' to me to
have been moderately worded. The first relates to the
Principalities which have been invaded, and by which
means, contrary to the treaty of Adrianople, the road to
Constantinople has been opened to Russia. It is pro-
posed to place the Christian inhabitants of these Princi-
palities under the guarantee of the Five Great Powers of
Europe, so that if Russia should, at any future time, make
any aggression upon them, they would at OBCO receive
the assistance of the four powers to repel it. Tide is one
security, and Austria and Prussia have agreed to joie in it.
The next basis is the opening of the navigation of the
Danube, which has been closed by the unfair conduct of
Russia, contrary to the provisions of the treaty of Vienna,
and for the selfish interest of Russia. If any security can
be given for this object it cannot fail to be for the advan-
tage of Europe. The third is one which I admit is of some
difficulty, and it refers to the revision of the treaty of
1841, and the consideration of the words, " in the interest
of the balance• of power." Now, the meaning of those
words is obvious. As matters stood previous to the pre-
sent war, none of the European Powers could send
their
ships of war to the Dardanelles without the permission o
the Sultan e but the Emperor of Russia having a great
harbour and fortress, in the Black Sea, in which there are
18 or 20 sail of the line, might at any time avail aim df
000
f
or 40,
a favourable wind, and come down with 30,
troops, occupy the Bosphorus, and destroy C "lonstantinople
on seen,lesv ewe Sebasto-
pol,t hink
iwtfwthohuilds guns. Now,
unsafe New paoftesitriownhiant
for the independence of Turkey, it would be an act of and I think, having gone to war to obtain security
which to te
the grossest folly if we were to consent to a treaty of peace,
if Russia, having, in six months afhe treaty was
a few days destroyed the independence w
i
signed, picked a fresh cause of quarrel withter the
Turkey, and in
we are now
seeking to secure. The fourth condition is also one of some
difficulty, and the hon. gentleman the member for the
West Riding has referred to it at some length. He says,
and says with truth, that Turkey has been misgoverned,
count of the desert na-
ture of the country. But, sir, I quite agree with the state-
and that every traveller gives an ac
ment made by the noble lord, the Secretary for de Some
Department, that Turkey has made great progress of late
years. But how has this change been effected ? It is to
be traced to the change which has takenplace in the habits
of the Christian subjects of the Porte— .
Mr. COBI)EN—I spoke of the Turks.
stians form a great of the
Lord J. ItUSSEL L— And I am speaking of Turkey. The
populaticT of Turkey,
andChri my argument is, thaptart the Christian Powers, and Eng-
land more especially, have impressed upon the Porte the
advantages el a
subjects, The Sultan has adopted in practice those just
just administration of the laws among his
ideas, and the consequence is,that while there are many
Turks who have been in England and France, and who
know the manners of these countries, the greater part of
the Turkish population has remained in ignorance ; while
the Christian subjects, who, instead of being treated as
formerly with indiscriminate injustice and oppression,
have made greet social progress, and enjoy, as Lord Car-
lisle many religious and civil privileges formerly de-
nied
Then, what I look to is, that this progress
states,tothe r.
will go on, and that the Sultan will give such assurances
to the Christian Powers of Europe that we shall see before
long an equality among the subjects of the Porte, and that
persons of one religion shall enjoy equal privileges with
those of another. (Hear, hear.) This will restore the
prosperity of the country, which will then exist with a
general diffusion of thought fad education, rhich, WO k 1194

, Mr. I. BUTT—The proposal of the Government to have
10,00'i foreign troops in this country inc,lnt that they worn
to have 31,000 or 49,000 of those tr-ops in the service of
the Qucen abroad. Now, to that scheme he entortainel
objections-which reflectioe Irs,l rendorol of an insuperable
character. Nor did he think the argument that it was
unconstitutional to bring foreign troops into this country
haPl been sufficiently answered. The constitutional prin-
ciple was, that the Crown could not bring foreign troops
into this country without the consent of Parliament. Ilut
if the commit of Parliament was a mero matter of form,
the constitution was violated. He c,mtended that neither

Padiament nor the country had been fairly or duly con
stilted, and it was almost NV i tinnt precedent, if not entirely
so, that a measure of such vast importance should neither
be adverted to in the Queen's Speech, nor be the subject of
a message from the Crown; and this, too, whilst the
noble lord the President of the Council was abundantly
candid in revealing to the whole world the plan of the Go-
vet nment regarding the attack upon Sebastopol. How
could this measure remedy the condition of our troops at
Balakla,va ? Was it any proof of the wisdom, vi&our, or
capacity of the Government that they had left ou'r brave
troops ill provided -- without tents—without warm cloth-
ing —nay, ho feared without even the necessary supply of
food ? (Hoar, hear.) Was that house justified in placing
confidence in a Government which had suffered such things
to occur—was it upon the ipse dixit of a member of that
Government to pass without due deliberation so important
and so distasteful a measure as this - was it to acquiesce at
once in the request of an Administration whose war depart-
ment had been so scandalously mismanaged ? Those foreign
hirelings could not be of any use to remedy the present un-
fortunate condition of our troops in the Crimea. Those
troops would maintain their ground, notwithstanding the
disadvantageous position in which our own Government
had placed them, until help was obtained from a less
questionable source. Was it not shameful that, with the
resources of England at the disposal of the Government—
our being within 16 days' sail of the Crimea—with a peo-
ple enthusiastic in carrying on the war with vigour, and
ready to make any sacrifice—with the seas freed from the
presence of an enemy, so that any craft might without fear
navigate those waters—with the immense maritime force
of this nation—that our army, who deserved so well of us,
should be almost deprived of the common necessaries of
life ? (Hoar.) The enthusiasm of the nation was almost
unexampled. The mechanic and the labourer contribute t
their utmost mite towards the relief of those who were
wounded, or to the assistance of the widows of those who
died in the service of their country. Ladies forgot the
elegances of polished life to act the part of common nurses
to the sick or wounded soldier—(hear)—and yet with all
these resources, with all this aid, with all this enthusiasm,
the Government wished to force this bill for obtaining the
aid of foreign hirelings through Parliament. The hon. and
learned gentleman then cautioned the Government, lest the
sympathies of those foreign troops might be more German
than English when in•our service, and so, in the change of
circumstances, force us to disgraceful and disastrous com-
promise with the enemy. Did they think they would not
be in the power of Austria if she could by intrigue or in-
fluence control those German States, whose men we should
have taken ? He thought Ministers had made ono great
mistake in trusting Austria ; and he thought they made a
great mistake when they allowed Austria to occupy the
principalities ; but they should take care that they were
not now giving Austria the key of the British camp. By
the course Ministers were now adopting they wero de-
moralisine. war. There was a personal risk and sacri-
fice which° men made to support a cause which they
thought right; but to carry on war as now proposed by
Ministers aggravated all the evils which war carried
with it. Did they think their German Legion would
be popular in England ? He believed they would not—
that they would be odious to the people, and, therefore,
for the sake of maintaining amity with the German States
he would now repudiate this measure of Ministers ;_ and he
wished now, at the last moment, they would withdraw it,
and advise the Sovereign to trust in the fidelity of her own
subjects ; for he believed with the poet that—
" Naught can make her rue,
If England to herself be true."
They had now unexampled enthusiasm about this war.
Would they have it if this measure was passed? There never
was a time when this nation should be more united than
now • and he hoped the time was coming when they would
forget' all distinctions of English, Irish, or Scotch, andthey
should be all one really united nation. Why should Mi-
nisters throw down this apple of discord among them? By
an unconstitutional threatof resignation they were forcing
this measure upon the house—and what did that mean ?
That they would abandon the vessel of the State among
the breakers upon which they had steered her. He never
gave a vote with a clearer conscience, or one less influenced
by anything except the honour and interest of this country
than the vote he should give against the passing of this
odious measure. (Hear.)
Mr. MICHELL should wish to know what this war was
carried on for. He should wish this house to be ventilated
upon that subject. (Hear, and a laugh.) It would be in
the recollection of the house that it was stated by the
noble lord the President of the Council and others that
the passing of the Pruth would be regarded as.na catus
bclli; but now the Russians had repassed the . anu et.
This was a war of religion. (Laughter.) It was a war, no
between Turks and Russians, but ono between RomanisT
and Protestantism. (Loud laughter.) He would state his
reason for entertaining that opinion—every Cathoontinuelic mem
ber voted with the Ministry upon the bill. (Cd
laughter.) The cause of the excitement which had arisen
in Ireland on this question was the fact of its being known
that the Emperor of Russia had whipped tome nuns. Me_
unwed laughter.) The present quarrel took its origin from
a difference between the Latin Church and the Holy Places.
(Cries of Question and oh, oh.) There could be no doubt
that the struggle now going on was one in which the Greek
Church was opposed to the Roman Catholic Church. Had
hon. members seen the letter of the Secretary of War to
Miss Nightingale? (Laughter.) All the persons who had
gone out with that lady were Roman Catholics. (Divide,
divide, and Question.) The question was, whether we
were to have foreign legions in this country ? He believed
if we had bothei of foreign itoldi ere paredieg the streets of

she Emperor of Russia will not allow in any dominion of
his Own. (Hear, hear.) We know that, during the reign
of the present Emperor of Russia, the circulation of the
Bible, which was so much promoted by the Emperor
Alexander, haeteen stopped ; so that if the hon. member
for the West Riding were to have his way, and the Em-
peror of Russia, whose acts the hon. gentleman seems
always ready to palliate, were to bnallowed to.pursue his
desigps unchecked, you would,. perhaps, see Christian wor-
ship in St. Sophia ; but you would also see a varnish of
civilisation, which would bejfar worse than barbarism. I
have said that this war,;was cawed, not for any speculative
object, but because there,was VI aggression of the Emperor
of Russia against his neighbour. The,. hon.'member for
Manchester; ire a letter which he has circulated, not
being able to justify such a fact as that the.. Emperor of
BUM& sent note to Constantinople, andsaid, " Sign
the note I dictate, or your territories will be occupied
in eight days"—the honnember, finding-it> difficult mat-
ter altogether' to justify, says thatmy noble friend and I
were just as bad;tfor we sent a fleet toAthens, witha
menace to bombard it. That not exactly the truth.ea
The fact is, that some English,: subjects in Greece
senthut
been injured in their propertmesnd our
to Athens to institute a blockade and tradeinterrtepett
good. But
until
the pecuniary losses of our;seebjects were made
f._lean)l
as to bombardment it was never thought o
have made these remarksfbecause't Lei lonnb:i rn for
yethrye
West Riding, at the beginnineeof thhi3shsirins
•rneele observations
fair and temperate speech, I must say
as to the nature of the war, and the reasous,why he cannot
concur is it. That queetion and others will come meler
wiehed.to do ou the present
discussion hereafter. All
occasion was, to point out that Tele roust be some secu-
ritiesand, let me say, 13Ving stated at the end
for peace;
en the first night of the session, wile'
of the discussion
with Austria, I
were the
villi°hna3v:ff2fd treaty
that I did not deceive'-
think ttgenheornalsePriv°
them on that occasion—that I (lid not overstate those
provisions. If I had done so, I should have been justly
Charged with attempting to mislead ; but I made no at-
tempt to ...see an exaggerated notion of the provisions of
that treaty. But in stating this, I must now repeat that
Toy belief is, that although not contained in the literal
terms of the treaty, Austria will find that as we do not
propose to diminish the territories of Russia—as we
propose to leave her a great and powerful nation,
and only seek for securities which are as necessary for
Austria as they are for England and France—(hear,
hear)—in order to obtain a durable peace, that
unless Russia shall consent to such terms—to such
fair and moderate terms as it will b 3 our duty to
Propose whenever the Minister of the Emperor of Russia
shall declare that he is desirous to enter into negotiations
—I feel convinced that if those terms are not accepted by
the Emperor of Russia, that if he is of opinion that that
great scheme which was begun in the reign of Catherine,
if not before—that great scheme which is to end in adding
Turkey to the dominions of Russia, must be persevered in
—if he is of that opinion we shall, before the commence-
ment of the next campaign, have the alliance of Austria
with us in a defensive and Offensive treaty. (Hear, hear.)
I state to you that Austria is not literally bound to any
such course, but I think she is morally bound by the sti-
pulations into which she has entered. I have always been
of opinion that we might be obliged to have a long and
protracted war unless Austria was a party with us in that
war; but r do believe that if Austria joins we shall have,
before long, the accession of Prussia, and we shall be in a
position to say that the war will not be protracted, end
that it will be ended by a satisfactory, durable, and ho-
nourable peace. (Hear, hear.) I could not avoid making
these explanations. I have nothing to add on the subject
of the bill now before the house. I have not heard any
new arguments to night. It has been successfully de-
fended; and I believe that, before long, it will be admitted
to be a useful and efficient measure.
Sir J. PAKINGTON said he was surprised that the Go-
vernment had delayed to so late a period to offer any reply
to the able and striking speech of the hon. member for the
West Riding. He did Rot intend on the present occasion
to enter into the questions which had been raised by the
hon. member for the West Riding; but they were ques-
tions which, at some more fitting season, must be discussed,
And submitted to the decision of the house. But the noble
lord had referred to his Russian despatches, and he (Sir
J. Pakington) could not pass that subject by without ex-
pressing his dissent from the views-of the noble lord, and
repeating the opinion which he had always entertained,
that those despatches of the noble lord had tended in a
great degree to mislead the Emperor of Russia with regard
to the real temper and intentions of the British Govern-
ment, and thereby had been one cause of the war in which
we were engaged. The noble lord had alluded very briefly
to the bill which was now before the house, but he had
seed that honourable members on his (Sir J. Pakington s)
side of the house objected to the employment of foreign
troops. The noble lord was mistaken on that point.
Their objection was not to the employment of foreign
soldiers, for we were at present fighting side by side with
foreigners—(hear, hear)—but it was to the employment of
mere mercenaries, who, without any interest in the
struggle, were to be hired by this country to fight its
battles in the Crimea. What had fallen from the noble
lord on this bill had not, in his (Sir J. Pakington's)
opinion, affected in any degree that great triumph in
debate and argument which had distinguished the oppo-
sition to the proposal of the Government. Th© noble lord
had taken with him a reluctant majority into the lobby ;
hut, in point of argument, the victory of those who dis-
liked the measure was signal and complete. (Hear.) He
could not allow this debate to close without expressing,
his extreme regret for the painful and unfair position in
which the Opposition had been placed by the Government
in reference to this question. They had come up to this
short session willing and anxious to give the Government
their wort.
loft Let
.tane there
the house remember that when the late
was prospect of a
war, but from the hen:, when the Coalition Government
came into power, the danger lucre I front day t
day, and from the manner in which the n time:.
were conducted by the Government, the ec,watry had. been ,
involved in this dreadful struggle with the great empire of
Russia. They (the opposition) had no desire to interpose
in the conduct of the war further than was necessary for
the safety of the country. Alt parties acknowledged that
it was essential to strengthen the military force of the
country. They were willing to do so, and they came ex-
pecting that the Government would propo,e sumo plan in
which they could concur without difficulty or hesitat:o.l.
Put during this short session the Government had submit-
ted measures so objectionable, so ill prepared, that they
bid found themselves in this ,lilwalm.t.—either that they
must, however unwillingly, oppose thr Executive, or aban-
don a duty which they 0 .vent t their country by support-
ing measures to which they objected. They had with rc-
lectance, hut in the exercise of a strict Parliamentary
right, criticised the measures of the Government, and for
doing this they had been charged with faction. He though ,
that a most unjust charge. But the noble lord the Presi-
dent of the Council had iinpatejr to the right Iron member
for Bnekinehamshire that he gloated over the prospect ,f
disaster. The house must not suppose that ho (eir J.
Pakington) but any intention of defending his right hon.
friend from Bud] a charge. He would no more etaideicead
to defend him from that charge than his right le n. hien I
would condescend to notice it, but he must complain that
such language should be used in the house. (Hear, hear.)
The noble lord in making this charge, which was not one
of error or political inis.ake' but of baseness and of
disloyalty to the Queen, had exceeded the fair limits
of debate. (Hear, hem., hear.) But what must they
think of a cause which required such advocacy ? It
reminded him of the' advice which was given to young
lame ere when they bad nothing to say—to abuse the
plaintiff's atteruey. He would now refer to the previ-
sions of the bill. In the commencement of July her Ma-
jesty's Government determined to attack Sebastopol—they
determined to change the character of the war—to make it
offensive instead of defensive. He did not say whether
their decision was wise or unwise; but surely it was the
duty of the Government to take every means to ensure the
success of that attack. A great deal had been made of a
passage in the speech of the Duke of Welliztgaton upon the
Militia Bill, because the noble duke, in t
(defeat to the fact that, in the Peninsula, a
considerable
portion portion of the British armies had consisted of persons not
British-born subjects. But what was the tendency of the
opinion as expressed in that passage? First, that if they
wished to have an army of reserve, they must organise it
in time ; secondly, the extreme importance of a military
force. And the noble duke alluded, in distinct terms, to
its value, as exhibited by the conduct of the new Harm-
verian Militia at the battle of Waterloo. It seemed to him
(Sir J. Pakington) to be one of the strongest passages that
could be quoted to show the want of prudence on the part
of the present Government. Did they begin in time to
organise the militia? Did they avail themselves of that
valuable force, the militia? (Hear, hoar.) He had no
hesitation in expressing his opinion that, if, in last July,
when they determined to attack Sebastopol, they had
aoted upon the principle thus laid down, and embodied tl e
militia then, and taken steps to organise it in time, the
house Would never have been asked to pass this most objec-
tionable measure. (Hear, hear.) What had the noble lord
said be presumed, in explanation of this want of prepare-
tinn? He had told the house the other night, with what he
thought ho might call a fatal candour, that the Govern-
ment had had made a mistake, anti that they had under-
rated the strength of Sebastopol. The conutrymight well
ask whether the Government which nisi() Buell a mistake
was fie to conduct a great war like the present. (Hear.)
There had been many mistakes made during the last six
niQuthse-soave serious ; some had been accidental, from
the novelty of their position, of which they (the Opposi-
Con)* had taken no notice, and had refrained from criti-
cising. lint was the mistake as to the strength of Sebas-
topol one without excuse? He could not apply the word
mistake to such an error; he called it a dangerous
error, for which the Government must be held responsible.
'What was the conduct of the Government ? They did not
know its position, and therefore could not interfere to give
advice. The Government acted upon their own responsi-
bility ; they concluded the session ; they dispersed—one
to the sea-side—another to Scotland, and the war was left
to take its course, and the expedition was to go on as it
best could. Sad was the delusion, not of the people, but of
theeGovernmcut. The people were watchful and anxious,
and, as time wore on, that anxiety increased to alarm ; but
the delusion of the Government continued through August,
September, October, until, at last, the events of October
opened their eyes. (Hear, hear.) When the battles of
Balaklava and I nkerrnan had been fought—when our attack
upon Sebastopol had failed—when the batteries had not
pre:duced the effect expected—when Government suddenly
fo‘nd themselves in the position of having brought affairs
blm_.rewant of ordinary precaution and care—to the very
vaTt of discomfiture and destruction—when these disco-
yrZl,23,leleeen made—as the Government had been impro-
_4l`4"lat.per outset, so they were precipitate in the sequel
It wee plant
Fe
Was sninmoned with the greatest haste.
ment before cithat they had no intention to meet Parlia-
Deeember, euti.i:attese—they had prorogued it till the 14th
denly it Was summoned before the clay
to which it had
trorogried. Let the house and the
Government remark having assembled Parliament
lete in December, there"l'az nothing for it to do but to
register the bills of the
were three bills to be brenght°fuo". (Hear, hear.) There
volunteer fur forbeeieleiniewsrea4 tele—; 0
the
to
Foerneaigbnle
Ethrie.
militia to
discussed but
bautthtoirtwl,hwichhihehe
listment Bill then before t
stioneld volunteer to occur'
heel been announced, but little di
to enable the wished briefly to refer, viwz.,,.ct_he
erratneani
Govern-
meat to send regiments
_.t hi h
Elafjoe,rietrthltayittts:pv. :"::111;si,
the-garrisons in the
be more' unwise to occupy
wl I:l7aglnatir: sons
. arentirely‘uyphooiwnerhitt.thhihe:
militia bodies, because, hell,
l
- .
propose, they
was essential tel°teulGdernvoetrribieneTtit3l':rtnil? scat
eatat
respect Co the troops in those garrisons, and that
shortest notice. But he had further tocomplain
Got-erne:lent, that they had prepare,l these
lto resortmess es with 1
so little care, that they had been oblige(Go
Government's late
opponents for advice. Many of the. .
the Oppopitioue
supporters had found it necessary to join
upon the present measure; and, indeed, he could not bets
ter describe them than us political tree lancers of England
who were ready to enlist under any banner,
and to wear
any uniform. (Hear.) But the present measure having
been shaped by the Opposition iu such a manner as to
carry out the intentions of the Government, was it . a bill
-- -whiah,they were itutified in adopting? the impes-
felt .c,
Ability of adding anything new to the arguments which

hail been already used ; but he felt himself bound to state
his concurrence with them, and to declare his opinion that
the Government had taken an unfortunate course in hav-
ing proposed a measure so repugnant to the feelings of the
nation—(hear)—and humiliating to our pride as English-
men ; a measure, as he believed, immoral in its tendency,
and one which could only have this effect, to lower us in
the eyes of Europe, and give to all European Powers a
false, and mistaken, and dangerous idea, that the country
was so weak that it could not raise troops to defend itself.
He also objected to the way in which it had been brought
forward, so as to avoid discussion. It ought to have been
introduced into her Majesty's Speech, but the Government
was afraid of its influence upon the people. In vain had
it been asked, where the men were to be obtained; how
they were to be officered ? but to these, and many other
inquiries, no answer had been given. The precedents of
the noble lord at the head of the Government bad alto-
gether failed. That of the employment of German troops in
the American war, and many others, had warned them of
what they ought to avoid, rather than of what they ought
to follow. But the great argument, which the Secretary at
War had employed upon every occasion, was the necessity
of the case. He believed there was the strongest necessity
to avoid such a measure; but the Government could
show to him its necessity, he would be very glad to
vote in favour of it, however objectionable it might be.
But he denied the necessity, and the Government had alto-
gether. failed to establish it. (Hear, hear.) If there was
any consideration from which they might derive solace
under the privations of this war, it was in the gratification
they must all derive from the burst of loyalty which the
people had given forth. It was proved that the British
heart was sound, and never did the people come forward
oore nobly than at the present time. He believed that
fern the, moment war was declared, the Horse Guards had
been applied to by every military man auxiou to share the
fatigues and honours of the campaign. The recruiting, too,
had gone on with vigour. He had received a letter from
Liverpool, a day or two ago, in which it is said that the
number of applicants for enlistment were so great that
they could not be enrolled. But had the Government
availed themselves of the means at their command ? If
they had, how was it that up to this time the Irish militia
was not embodied ? Was the British militia even ern-
' bodied? Why had not the Government embodied them?
(Hear, hear.) He believed that if the Government felt
any pressure for soldiers for immediate service, there was
' no quarter to which they could better turn than to the
Irish constabulary force. (Hear.) They were well dis-
ciplined and fit for immediate service. He had heard that
there would be no difficulty in forming two brigades of
infantry from the Irish constabulary force. Even now,
by embodying the militia, they could collect a force which
they might soon send to the Crimea. Did the difficulty,
then, turn on what the Government said it did—viz., the
I want of disciplined troops for the East ? He asserted
that it was possible to collect a sufficient force from the
Irish constabulary and English militia. That might be
done in as short a space of time as in which they would
get their mercenaries ready ; for he agreed with an hon.
friend who had spoken, that in a very short period an
English force might be sent to the Crimea. Assuming
that they had as many men under this bill aslhey wanted,
another question remained behind whether, when
they had got the men, they could trust them? (Hear,
hear.) They must remember that the Emperor of Russia
would fight us, not only with steel and with iron, but with
gold. If they bought the interest of men in the way pro-
posed, was there no fear that their services might be bought
again ? (Cheers.) They would not buy the hearts of such
men. (Cheers.) They must recollect, too, that they had
invaded the Russian land, that they had invaded Russian
homes, and had, indeed, excited feelings in Russian hearts
similar to those which had enabled the Russians to repel
Napoleon from Moscow. There was no doubt, then, that
the forces they would bring against us- could only be met
with like forces—men devoted to their country. (Hear.)
Let them not place reliance in the mercenary soldier they
had engaged. Let them remember what the Duke of
Wellington said of mercenary troops in the Peninsula. He
was forced to leave a large body at Lisbon, for fear, he
said, they would desert him. Let them mind they had not
to leave a large body of these mercenaries at Balaklava.
Better, then, to have Englishmen on whom they could
rely. He could not help hoping that Parliament would
reject the bill. He could not help hoping, too, if Govern-
ment carried the bill they would carry it out cautiously;
but if Government were determined to employ such men,
those on that side of the house would, at least, have the
consolation of having raised their voices against a measure
so derogatory to our national honour. (Cheers.)
Mr. BRIGHT said he did not rise to make a speech at
that time of the night, but the noble lord had chosen to
get up at a late hour—which, by the way, was a convenient
plan with him when he did not wish anything he uttered
to be answered—cries of " no, no"—but the noble lord
took the opportunity of misunderstanding, as he (Mr.
Bright) supposed he must not say misrepresenting several
opinions of his hon. friend the member for the West Riding.
The noble lord said that his friend desired to spread a
system of propagandism over the country, but what his
friend had said was exactly the contrary. (Hear, hear.)
The next mirrepresentation was that his friend had
struck in for a status quo. But what the honourable
gentleman really bad said was again quite the con-
trary. He said that he started from the position where
we were at the present moment, and referred to certain
assertions of the noble lord respecting proposals from Rus-
sia, and which he (Mr. Bright) supposed would, in future,
form perhaps the " Four Points." He could not tell how
the noble lord could make the mistake had he listened at-
tentively to the speech of his hon. friend. Then his friend
had spoken to the observations of the noble lord about the
condition of Turkey. They had, over and over again, re-
ferred to a monstrous statement of the right hon. member
for Tiverton. But what did the noble lord do? Why,
what he (lir. Bright) would be ashamed to do. (Cries of
oh, oh.) It was all very well for hon. gentlemen who
came down there to cheer a Minister—(Hear, hear from
the Opposition beaches)—to object ; but there was not a ,
man on those benches who alit not know that the noble
lord was wrong when be said that the Turks hail impyovea
to much in the last '2O years. Was it not a confusion of
the noble lord's of Muesuhnen with Christian ? It was
not the Torles but limo Onristians who hod improved. Was
there a gentleman in that house who was not aware of the
fact that the Ottoman dominions—called an empire—were
gradually dying out? anti he was convinced that the two
nations who had combined to set it on its legs would find
it more difficult than they had imagined. (11...ar, hear.)
Why, what did their own office; s say ? (The lion. gentle-
man
read a letter in which it was recorninen.led,that the
Turks should be employed in mending the roads, an,l
trusted the "brutes" would not be sent to the Crimea.)
He had, too, seen a letter from an ()Meer of distinguished
character, in which it was said that half the inert out in
the East did not know for what they were fighting;, and
the other half prayed they were not fighting for the Turks.
The only sign of vigour they had exhibited was that in the
hour of danger. They mimed an army for their defence,
1 which was now almost destroyed by the conduct of Govern-
reent. Another impeovernont in their condition was that
they hail lately taken to wear trousers, but as to their
commerce or their industry, no such thing really existed.
There were now tivog,reat empires leagued for the support of
Turkey, anti it was rumoured that there was to be a third.
Rut how stood the case ? Turkey now
.wanted money, but
but could not get it under 8 or 9 per cent. But Russia
was an empire, against which three empires—if Turkey
were one—were at war; and it was said that a fourth was
to join them; and yet the Russian funds attained on
'Change the sane price as the stock of the London and 1
North-Western Railway. What was it Government had
undertaken to do ? To set up the Turkish empire, nu
undertaking in which they must of necessity fail. They
hid themselves pressed the Sultan to enter iuto the con-
test,
to carry on which he was now forced to mortgage his
Egyptian revenues, and that, as the Chancellor of the
Exchequer could tell the house, was tantamount to a dis-
memberment of his dominions. So far with respect to the
arguments of the noble lord. He would now like to know
what the noble lord saw so worthy in the Greeks, who had
iaeu charged falsely, he believed, with setting fire to
n Val a, and whom it had been thought necessary to have
removed from Ba.laklavi? Why were attempts made to
create dislike to the Greeks here, if the Greeks, as the
noble lord alleged, were Turks? The fact was, that he
was himself destroying that Turkey which he professed to
defend, and smothering it in his embrace. The forcible
language of the Ti»zes newspaper in reference to the com-
mencement of the war was sure to be realised. That jour-
nal had stated that whatever else might be the result of
t(willii,roleioigitwlheda,tlr)b,etahanils was certain, that at the conclusion there
he,
n 1 i
hartic Enur
beeno
manyp e. 0
tTh
writtenhe
le.
s nfoo babl
aye
fi
himlord
n o t (Mr.
elar asyd
Idoe twhichtTeru rwk ehhyi ec
to answer. (Laughter.) The noble lord had referred t•
what he (Mr. Bright) had said about the Don Pacifico
affair; but the noble lord must know that he referred to
the despatch of Count Nesselrode to Baron Brunn" w, in
which he charged England with pursuing an isolated
policy, and considering her own will as right. He had
now to state of that affair, that had it not been con-
ducted with more temper and more good sense than the
iitte6tion of the Holy Places had been, there might
have been a war on it, and it was a question on which
Russia might fairly have gone to war with England. The
noble lord again misrepresented his hon. friend. His hon.
friend had said—and he appealed to every gentleman in
the house if it was not so—that in the present war Aus-
tria and Prussia had a stronger interest than England, and
that he did not see why terms which Austria considered
safe to herself should be refused by this country and by
France. Now he (Mr. Bright) was prepared to show that
there had not been a single thing in the course of the nego-
tiations that Austria or Franco agreed to, that the Govern-
ment of the noble lord did not refuse, and he (Mr. Bright)
should therefore consider that it alone was responsible for
the war. He would not go so minutely into circumstances,
hut should content himself with the mention of two facts.
The one was, that when the French Ambassador had re-
ceived the instructions of the Emperor of the French not
to take on himself the responsibility of pressing the Porte
to refuse the Vienna note, the English Government,
through Lord Stratford de Redcliffe, secured its rejection.
The other fact was, that when, in September last year,
terms of agreement had been drawn up at Ohnutz, and that
the Emperor of the French urged their acceptance on Tur-
key, Lord Clarendon wrote a letter, in no statesmanlike
spirit, but in a contemptuous tone of expression, that he
would have nothing more to do in regard to the Vienna
note. On the truth of both these facts, he was ready to
stake his reputation. Be the policy so pursued right or
wrong, it was one adopted solely by the Government of
this country. If that were true how could it be that Aus-
tria could engage in war for objects beyond those which
she had contemplated? or that the Emperor of the French
would battle for objects beyond those with which he was
satisfied in September of last year? There was another
despatch which had never as yet been published in this
country, but had lately appeared in a St. Petersburg paper,
from which it had been copied in Paris, in which the Em-
peror of the French urged on Russia to accept the Vienna
note, on the ground that it did not differ in sense from
the original propositions of Prince Menschikoff. The do-
spatch said further —" The French Government s.ubrnit
it to the Cabinet of St. Petersburg, with the hope they
will find its sense differs in nothing from the sense of the
propositions presented by Prince Menschikoff, and that it
gives satisfaction in all the essential parts of it. demands.
The slight variation in the form of it will not be observed
by the mass of the people either in Russia or in Turkey."
It also stated that, in the eyes of the mass, it would have
all tho significance which the Cabinet of St. Petersburg
wished to give it, and the Emperor Nicholas would appear
to them always as the powerful protector of their religions
faith. This despatch was similar to the termsof the Vienna
. oge 'wfwas peace,r with
itthi
note. and up to that moment neither the Government of
France, nor the Government of this country, had ever
denied for a single instant the justice of a claine,on the part
of the Russian Government. as against that of Turkey. And
then they turned against their own note, and said there was
that house, he "elusive
;
a different construction put upon it. The whole of that
statement w and if he (Mr. Bright) were not in
they were
makivrould give it a harsher term. He maintained
ng war against a Government which had
accepted their own terms
for the pm-pm, of .
Government„ that they dwewreitaht thew a:
further terms from theyr were -at least boos to exact no
theyan
eawnhdomh house,e stated this onl

than such as might give that security which was at first
believed to be necessary. But if they carried on a war
for vengeance, for conquest, or for the purposes of the Go-
vernment at horns—as many a war had been carried on—
they would be guilty of a heavy crime in the eyes alike of
God and man. (Hear, hear.) The noble lord (Lord J.
Russell) spoke very confidently that evening ; but a consi-
derable portion of the speech was not very satisfactory to
him (Mr. Bright) hoping, as he did, for a speedy termination
to the war. The noble lord would be acting a more states-
manlike part if, in making his speeches, he abstained from
those trifling but irritating charges which he was constantly
bringing against the Russian Government, such as their
prohibiting the sale of Bibles, and other matters of a similar
character. But, what said the right hon. gentleman, the
President of the Board of Control, to the Government of
our ally ? Did not that right hon. gentleman thank
God that our ally could not gag oar newspapers? (Hear.)
All this showed a littleness on the part of the statesmen of
this country, when vast interests hung upon every word
they uttered ; and, might be, that tens of thousands of
our countrymen might be hurried to an untimely grave if
the noble lord made one false step in the position in which
he was now placed. (Hear, hear.) During the time the
late terrible calamities were happening, he (the lion. gen-
tleman) had been given to understand there was not a
Cabinet meeting. The noble lord (Lord John Russell)
was making a speech in Cumberland and another ie Brad-
ford, descanting upon the decline of empires; and after-
wards he delivered a speech at Bristol in favour of a new
history of England. If such a history were impartially
written, he (Mr. Bright.) knew not how the hoble lord's
conduct for the last few mouths would show. (Laughter.)
The noble lord, the member for Tiverton, was about the
a lane time making a speech to the Hampshire peasantry,
which overthrew the New Testament, and disturbed the
very foundations of morality. (Laughter.) When he
looked at the hon. gentlemen upon the Treasury benches,
and considered all that their policy had brought about
within the last twelve months, he scarcely dared trust
himself to speak of them either in or out of their presence.
lion, gentlemen knew what they had lert in that house.
He (Mr. Bright) met the late hon. and gallant member for
the borough of From, (Colonel Boyle) a short time before
that gallant officer went out, at the shop of Mr. Westerton
the bookseller, near Hyde-park-corner. He asked him
whether he was going out to the Crimea, and the gallant
member replied that he was afraid he should. Not afraid
in the sense of personal fear—(hear)—but with a look and
tone that he (the hon. member) should never forget, the
gallant colonel said, " It is no light matter for a man who
has got a wife and five little children." Well, that gallai:d,
officer had found a grave; his wife was a widow, and his
children orphans. (Hear.) Now, let them take that hon.
and gallant member who bad sat on the opposite aide of
the house, the late Col. Blair. Who would not recollect
his frank, manly, and ingenuous countenance. (Hear.)
He doubted whether any man on either side of the house
was more capable than that gallant colonel to engage the
good-will and affection of all. (Hear, hear.) But the
place that knew him would know him no more for ever.
(Hear.) He (Ur. Bright) had specified but two gallant
officers ; but there were 100 officers who had been killed
in battle or died of their wounds; there were 40 who h ,d
died of disease, and more than 200 had been wounded more
or less severely ; and every post brought them the narra-
tive of some one or more death. "There had been a ter-
ribly destructive war for the officers. They had been, as
he (the hon. member) would have been expected them to
be, first in valour as in place—(hear, hear)- and they had
consequently suffered more in proportion than the common
1 soldiers of the army. Well, then, this spread sorrow over
the whole country. He (Mr. Bright) was at the bar of
the other house of Parliament when the vote of thanks to
the army was moved, and there were many ladies in the
galleries, three-fourths of whom were in the deepest
mourning. Was this nothing? In every village there
were cottages to be found in which sorrow had entered,
and entered, he (the hon. gentleman) believed, through
the policy of her Majesty's Government, which might
have been avoided. No ono supposed that the Govern-
ment wanted to spread a pall of sorrow over the land ;
but the least one would expect would be this—that, when
such questions as the present were discussed, they would
be discussed with a becoming gravity and a sense of those
terrible consequences which might come to individuals
and to the nation. He recollected the late Sir R. Peel,
upon the occasion of some anticipated rupture with the
United States, and he (Ur. Bright) could not forget the
gravity of the countenance of that right hen. baronet, and
the solemnity of his tone. He recollected even the way
in which the right hon. baronet walked up to his seat in
the house, and there was a general feeling at the time
that he was !weighed down by a sense of the deep
responsibility which rested upon him. (Hear, hear,
and cheers.) Was that the case with the present
Government? Was buffonery at the Reform Club be-
fitting a matter of this nature? Was the flippant style
of speech from that (the Treasury) bench becoming states-
men and Christian men on a great subject of this para-
mount importance ? It was very easy for the noble lord,
the member for Tiverton, to tell him (Mr. Bright) that
he was against war under any circumstances, and that if
an enemy landed on our shores he would make a calculation
whether it would be cheaper to take the enemy in or drive
him out, and that, therefore, his opinion was not worthy
of acceptance either by Parliament or the country. Don't
let the noble lord suppose that he (Mr. Bright) was for a
moment afraid of discussing this question upon the noble
lord's own principles. He (Mr. Bright) understood the
blue books as well as tho noble lord ; and after reading
them from beginning to end, ho said, and he said it with
as much confidence as he ever spoke anything, that this
war could not be justified out of these negotiations, and
impartial history would teach that conclusion to our pos-
terity if we did not now comprehend it. He was not,
and never pretended to be a statesman. That character
was so tainted and equivocal in these days, that he was
not sure that a pure and honourable ambition would aspire
to it. He had not enjoyed, like the noble lords down there,
the emoluments and advantages of office for 30 years ; he
had not set his sails to every passing breeze ; he was a
plain and simple citizen, sent to that house by one of the
first constituencies in the empire, and his opinions might,
therefore. be the opinions of very many out of doors, and
consonant with the tiros totes-oats of !1.....' .... ..1.....1 Ulu.
there. Let it not be said that he stood alone in the con-
demnation of the war, and of this incapable and giddy
Ailinini,tration. But if ho were alone, and if his voice
were the solitary voice that was heard amid the din of
war and the clamour of a venal press, ho should have the
consolation which he had that night, and which he trusted
might rest wills him to the last moment of his existence—
a priceless consolation—that no word of his had ever
tended to promote the sluandering of his country's trea
sure or the spilling of his country's blood. (Cheers.)
The house then divided—
For the third reading
Against it

. 173
135

Majority for the third reading '... 38
The bill was then read a third time.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL then moved to substitute
the following clause for clause 2 :
"
Provided always, that the men serving under this act
shall not be employed in the United Kingdom except for the
purpose of being trained, arrayed, and formed into regiments,
battalions, or corps for foreign service, and except such bodies
of reserve as may be kept in the United Kingdom, and which
shall be kept and used solely for the purpose of training and
arraying recruits, and for supplying vacancies in such regi-
ments, battalions, or corps ; and the men serving under this
act shall not be billetted or quartered on any person or per-
sons ; and that there shall not be within the United Kingdom
mere in the whole than ten thousand men serving under this
1 act at any one time."
! The Earl of MARCH was at a loss to understand how in
the event of there being cavalry amongst these foreign
troops, and it being desirable to transfer them from the
• barracks (say of Dorchester) to the place of embarkation,
it would be possible to get them to that place without bil•
leting them on the road.
Mr. S. HERBERT said that no such difficulty could
arise, as it was not in the interior but on the coast that
tho foreign troops would be trained.
Mr. MILES was not at all satisfied with the answer,
I and feared it would be impossible to avoid the billet.
. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL explained that in case
hotel accommodation were required for these troops, it
would ho sought as in the ease of civilians, but not by way
of billet.

Col. SIBTHORP renowed his protestation against the
whole bill, and wished to know whe was to protect the ft:).
male virtue of the country if these foreigners were to be
lot loose? (Laughter.) Oh, how he wished that he had
the training of the Government, and though he would find
them an awkward squad, he would make them do their
duty. (Laughter.)
The clause was read a second time.

On the question that it be read a third time,
- - - - - - -

The Earl of MARCH repeated his objection, and declared
his conviction that unless some assurance were given that
the barracks should be within one day's march of the coast,
it would be impossible to avoid the billet.
Mr. S. HERBERT said that the existence of railways
rendered any such assurance unnecessary. There was no
barrack that, in these times, was two days' march from a
seaport.

Mr. BANKES approved of the clause.
The clause was agreed to.
Mr. L. KING moved that the following clause be added
to the bill :
" No officer serving under this act, when reduced, shalt
be entitled to receive half-pay; provided, nevertheless, that
when any such officer shall be rendered incapable of military
service by wounds or infirmities contracted while dischafging
his military duty during the period of his continuing to serve
as such officer under the provisions of this act, then and in
such case it shall be lawful for her Majesty to make such pro-
vision for such officer as she shall think proper and necessary,
so that such provision shall in no case exceed the half-pay of
the rank in the British service similar to that which such offi-
cer shall have held at the time of his becoming so incapable

as aforesaid."
Lord J. RUSSELL said the Government would have no
objection to the clause being added, as it was the same as
in the former bill.
The clause was then read and agreed to.
Mr. J. G. PHILLIMORE proposed to add the following
proviso to clause 4 :—Provided always, and bo it enacted,
that at least one-third of the officers of the said 10,000
men shall be British subjects, and that none of the said
10,000 men shall remain in this kingdom above one year
from the time when they shall be enlisted under the pro-
visions of this act.
Mr. S. HERBERT objected to the proviso being intro-
duced. Nothing could be more inconvenient than to add
such a clause, and he should therefore oppose it.
Mr. F. SCOTT thought the proposition of the hon. and
learned member a reasonable one. He would suggest to
the Government that, as these men would probably be
Spaniards, Gentians, Piedmontese, and others, it would be
' well to engage interpreters.
Strangers were ordered to withdraw, but no division
took place.
The proviso was then negatived.
Mr. PARKE moved, as an amendment to the sth clause
" That this act shall continue in force until the end of the
next session of Parliament, or until one year after the rati-
fication of a definitive treaty of peace, if such treaty shall
have been sooner concluded ; provided that the expiration
of this act shall in no way affect the service of each
foreigner who shall have enlisted before this act shall ex-
pire." He trusted the Government would not object to
the clause.
Mr. S. HERBERT did not think his hon. friend saw the
effect of this amendment. The Government could not
assent to it.
• The amendment was negatived without a division.
The bill was then passed.
Lord J. RUSSELL wished that the house should meet
at two o'clock to-morrow (this day).
This was assented to.
The Common Law Procedure (Ireland) Bill was read a
second time.
SHERIFFS' COURT (SCOTLAND) BILL.
Mr. COWAN moved an address for a return of litigated
cases in the sheriff courts of Scotland, commenced subse-
quently to the let day of November, 1832, and finally de-
cided prior to the let day of November, 1853, with the sums
_and _taxed ft/Tenses decerned for.therein; similar return
as io cases commenced, subsequently to the Ist 45.7 of