The Sun.
London, England, 1853-08-05 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, AUGUST 5, 1853

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS—(YESTERDAY.)
Their Lordships met shortly after three o'clock.

ROYAL ASSENT.
The Royal assent was given by commission to the fol-
'owing bills :
Succession Duty.
Common Lodging Houses.
Convicted Prisoners Removal and Confinement.
Savings Banks Annuities.
Coinage Offences (Colonies).
Colonial Bishops Act Extension.
Patronage Exchange.
Taxing Officer, Common Law Business (Ireland).
Bankruptcy (Scotland).
Land Revenues.
Copyholds.
Customs Duties.
Dublin Parliamentary Registration.
Stamp Duties.
Stamp Duties (No. 2).
Resident Magistrates (Ireland).
Turnpike Trusts Arrangements.
Sheep, &c., Contagious Diseases Prevention.
Battersea Park.
Westminster Bridge.
Spitalfields to Shoreditch Improvement.
Pimlico Improvement.
Whittlebury Forest.
Barnsley Waterworks (No. 2).
London Docks.
Midland Railway (Leicester and Hitchin).
Burford, Leachlade, and Swindon Roads.
Shipley and Bramley Road.
Wildmore Fen and East and West Fens Highways.
South Eastern Railway (North Kent Railway to the
Thames, &c.)
York and North Midland Railway (Re-issue of Hall and
Selby Purchase Shares).
London and North Western and London and Blackwall
Railways.
Leeds, Bradford, and Halifax Junction Railway.
Alston Roads.
Roscrea and Parsonstown Junction Railway.
Limerick, Ennis, and Killaloe Junction Railway.
South Eastern Railway (Reading
Extension, &c.)
Warrington and Altrincham Railway (Stockport)-
Eastern Counties Railway (North Woolwich, &c.)
Burton-upon-Trent Improvement (No. 2).
Carlisle Canal and Port Carlisle Railway.
Electric Telegraph Company of Ireland.
Norwich and Spalding Railway.
Copper Miners in England Company.
South Eastern Railway (Strood to Maidstone).
Victoria (London) Docks.
East Kent Railway.
South Staffordshire Waterworks.
Forth and Clyde Junction Railway.
Upton St. Leonard's, Birdlip, and Brimpsfield Road-
Dewsbury, Heckmondwike, and Batley Water.
Wakefield and Sheffield Road.
St. Ives (Cornwall) Harbour.
St. Helen's Canal and Railway.
Pendleton, Swinton, Sic., Road.
Leeds Northern Railway.
Bedale and Leyburn Railway.
Holme Reservoirs (No. 2).
Spalding Improvement.
Bideford Extension Railway.
Whitechapel Improvement.
Great Southern and Western Railway (Ireland).
Llanidloes and Newton Railway.
Waveney Valley Railway.
Manchester, Sheffield, and Lincolnshire Railway
(Barnsley).
Llynvi Valley Railway.
Nantwich and Woore Road.
Ayrshire and Galloway (Smithstown and Dalmellington)
Railway.
Caledonian Railway (Connecting Branch with Edin-
burgh and Glasgow, dm)
Furness Railway.
Edinburgh and Glasgow Railway.
Edinburgh, Perth, and Dundee Railway.
Great Western Railway (Henley).
Lands Improvement Company (No. 2).
St. Ives and West Cornwall Junction Railway.
South Eastern Railway (Canterbury and Whitstable, &c.)
London and North Western Railway (Oldham Branch.)
New ROSS (Free) Bridge.
British Electric Telegraph Company.
London and North Western Railway (Northampton, &c.)
London and North Western Railway (St. Albau's, &c.)
West Harptry Road.
Newry and Enniskellen Railway.
Westminster Improvements.
East Lancashire Railway (No. 2) (Southport, &c.)
London and South Western Railway (Basingstoke and
Salisbury Branch).
Birkenhead Dock Trustees.
East London Waterworks.
Halifax Waterworks and Improvement.
Limerick and Foynes Railway.
Llanelly Railway and Dock (No. 2).
Ribble Navigation.
Whitehaven and Furness Junction Railway.
Blyth and Tyne Railway.
Milford Haven Docks.
Londonderry, Enniskillen, and Sligo Railway (No. 2).
Birmingham and Oxford Junction, and Birmingham,
Wolverhampton, and Dudley and Great Western
Railways.
Newcastle-upon-Tyne Improvement.
Birkenhead Dock Company.
Newport, Abergavenny, and Hereford Railway (Here-
ford, &c.)
Newport, Abergavenny, and Hereford Railway (Taff
Vale).
West London and Crystal Palace Railway).
Chorley Improvement.
Cotham's Estate.
Crowe's Disabilities Removal.
Hall Dare's Estate.
Moore's (Brown's Trustees) Estate.
Pemberton Leigh's Estate.
Earl of Egremont's Estate.
Archbishop of Canterbury's Estate.
Sneed Park Estate.
The Lords Commissioners were—the Duke of Argyll,
the Marquis, of Breadalbane and Lord Colchester.
Their lordships then adjourned during pleasure.
The house resumed at five o'clock.
Lord WYNFORD presented a petition from the
General Court of Proprietors of the East India Com-
pany, praying for a modification of the Government of
India Bill. The noble lord said he deemed the prayer
of this petition to be most important, and thought it
was well worthy of attention at their lordships'
hands. All that the petitioners wanted was that
the best possible government should be extended
to India, and inasmuch, as from their position, they
must be well acquainted with the wants of India, he felt
that any suggestions from them ought to demand the
most serious consideration. They took exception to the
system of Government nominees, and objected to the
proposed reduction of the Court of Directors.
Earl GRANVILLE said the Government would re-
ceive these suggestions with the respect that they de-
served, but at the same time it was only right that he
should state that the Government did not concur in the
views contained in the petition.
THIRD READINGS.
The Parish Vestries (No. 2) Bill, the Municipal
Corporation Act Amendment Bill, the Burgh Harbours
(Scotland) Bill, the Summary Jurisdiction
Bill, and the Petty Sessions (Ireland) Bill, (Ireland)
were severally
read a third time and passed.
The Marquis of CLA.NRICARDE expressed a hope
that the Government would give every facility for pass-
ing the two last bills through the different stages in the
House of Commons, in order that they might become
law this session.
The Duke of NEWCASTLE gave an as
that
every facility would be afforded by the Government ;
but at this late period of the session it did not rest en-
tirely with them to say that the bills conts.ining so many
clauses as these should be passed into law.
committee.
ENTRY OF SEAMEN MIL.
The Brecon Collegiate Church Bill went through
On the motion for going into committee upaa_this

bill,
The Earl of HARDWICKE entered into a statement
of the objections which he entertained to the bill.
The house then went into committee, said after a short
discussion the clauses were agreed to.
NATIONAL EDUCATION IN NRELAND.
The Earl of CLANCARTY asked f)r some papers
connected with national education in Irel and, and wished
to know when the report of the comaissioners would
be produced.
The Earl of ABERDEEN explained that the delay
had been caused purely by mechanical Rffieulties.
the The
report would, he hoped, be ready by the, end of ses-
sion, but the other papers were of sucill a voluminous
character that the noble lord must be content to wait
for them.
The Earl LANCARTY thought that the whole
conduct of the Government in the affair• showed a dis-
position to evade investigation.
The Earl of ABERDEEN intimated that it was not
the wish of the Government to treat thse motion of the
the noble lord with any disrespect, :and that it'was
not in his power to make officials perform impossibilities.
Lord GRANVILLE added a few rei narks deprecat-
ing unreasonable demands upon the Government.
Lord DONOUGUMORE also made some observe.
tion3, and the subject dropped.
Their lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMNIONS-(YES TERDAY.)
EDUCATION BILL.

In reply to Mr. HADFIELD,
Lord J. RUSSELL said he was told that if the Edu-
cation Bill was not proceeded with, hon.. members would
put off the motions which they had oe.n the paper for
Wednesday ; and though he had with& 'awn the bill, he
must say he had not seen any correspo. n ding concession
on the part of hon. members. (Hear I 3 ear.) He must
'
appeal to the hon. member for North I\l arwickshire not
to press a discussion on the motion Of the hon. and
learned member for Bath. He was sure he would not
wish that the house should be occupied i i•om twelve until
six next Wednesday to no purpose wh htever. (Hear.)
He begged to say, in answer to the hon . member's ques-
tion, that it was not his intention to propose the second
reading of the Education Bill.
Mr. NEWDEGATE said he and other hon. members
were determined not to be defeated in g iving expression
to their opinions.
KILMAINHAM HOSPE C.XL.
In reply to Mr. VANCE,
Mr. S. HERBERT said he had seen the p reort of the
Commissioners of Rilmainham Hospitali„ but he thought
it would be better not to lay it on 'the tsi ble until he pro-
duced the warrant which was the root o f the report.
CHARITABLE TRUSTS E ;ILL.
Several amendments and new clauses. were brought up
and added to this bill.
moved an amendment to exempt
Lord J. RUSSELL
Roman Catholic charities from the ope .tion of the bill.
Sir F.TFIESIGER viewed with gre, regret and con-
siderable alarm the course now adopts I by the noble
lord, because though the words were feNs they were preg-
-1 nant with mighty consequences, and stnvolved a most

important question. He certainly had a right to com-
plain of the period the noble lord had chosen for intro-
ducing so formidable a proposition. (Hear, hear.) The
bill without the exemption had received not only the
sanction of the House of Lords, but had passed through
a committee of this house, and had been read a first and
a second time without opposition, and it was not until
just before going into committee that the noble lord in-
timated that it was his intention to propose an amend-
ment of this description, and if it had not been for
the intervention of the right honourable member
for Oxfordshire, it was possible that it would
have been carried at a time when, without using an im-
proper metaphor, he might say the greater part of the
life blood of the house had been withdrawn, and when
the house was not in a very active period of existence.
(Hear, hear.) The reason given by the noble lord for
the amendment, was the apprehension by Roman Catho-
lics, that if the investigation under the bill was extended
to them, it would be found that certain of their trusts
were illegal, under the law against superstitious uses.
But the bill had been long before the house and the
public, and it was somewhat strange that the expression
of their fears should have been delayed until now.
(Hear, hear.) The noble lord, however, might have
allayed those fears, instead of adopting and encouraging
them. (Hear, hear.) It was absurd to suppose that
any body of commissioners could, consistently with the
spirit of the present day, endeavour to abolish or defeat
trusts of this nature, merely because they came within
the law against superstitious uses. Hear, bear.) He
contended that the amendment would be mischievous
towards the Roman Catholics, and would give them no
benefit or advantage whatever, for it would leave them
in a helpless and crippled state, and would de-
prive them of any opportunity of complain-
ing of any abuses or mal-administration of their
trusts. It was true the noble lord had said it was
his intention in a future session to bring Roman Catho-
lic charities under the machinery of the bill by some
special enactment ; but what security had they that he
would be able to fulfil his pledge ? The noble
lord was not at the head of the Government. Strictly
speaking, he was not even a member of the Govern-
ment. They knew perfectly well the opinions enter-
tained by the majority of his colleagues in the cabinet
with regard to Roman Catholics, and how could they be
secure that they might not consider the exemption of
these trusts as a part of the natural development which
ought to be given to that class of the community ?
Looking, therefore, at the state of the house, and be-
lieving that the bill would not affect Roman Catholic
charities prejudicially, he did think the best and most
prudent course to pursue was to allow the bill to re-
main as it now stood. (Hear, hear.)
Lord J. RUSSELL did not think the hon. and learned
gentleman was justified in opposing the amendment that
he had moved. It was true that there were defects in
the Roman Catholic charities, but the house having ad-
mitted that it would be unjust to punish the Roman
Catholics for these defects, seeing that it was from no
fault of their own that these defects had arisen. Acts
of Parliament had passed since the establishment of
these charities which related to their organisation, but
the nature of which the Roman Catholics themselves
were ignorant of until it was too late to obtain an ex-
emption in their favour. An eminent barrister of the
the Roman Catholic persuation had told him that many
of the existing Roman Catholic charities were illegal—
at least they were opposed to many of the provisions of
the existing law. For instance, the many large sums
that had been left for the performance of masses for the
souls of the dead, and it had been laid down that such
charitable bequests were at variance with the law which
related to superstitious uses. Now, many of the Roman
Catholic charities which were established for educa-
tional purposes were open to the same objection, and as
this was a question of confidence on the one hand, and
suspicion on the other, he thought the house ought to
pause before they rejected this exemption. It might be
all very well to argue that no one would ever attempt
to prosecute a Roman Catholic charity under the Super-
3titious Uses Act, but looking at the history of the past,
h e thought the Roman Catholics might naturally enter-
tahi great suspicion as to the future if this bill included
their charities, and he had therefore proposed that they
should be exempt from the operation of this measure.
He could not remove these apprehensions, nor satisfy
the scruples of the Protestant feeling of the coun-
try by proposing any clause now for including
Roman Catholic charities in this bill which would
not lead to great discussion, and since there was not
time for such discussion now, he thought it was
better to exempt these charities for the present from
the operation of this bill. The lion. and learned gen-
tleman seemed to complain that there was no guarantee
that these charities would not be permanently excluded
from the operation of this bill ; but upon that point, he
thought, the house need be under no apprehension, for
he believed it would be for the benefit of the Roman
Catholics themselves that these charities should he
placed under some such law as this, and eventually,
he believed, they would be induced to accept a similar
measure, when the law respecting superstitious uses
should have been altered or amended in their favour.
(Hear, hear.) He trusted, therefore, the house would
not object to admit this clause into the bill, and leave
the question of Roman Catholic charities to be dis-
posed of in a future measure, to be brought forward
within the next two years, to which period this exclu-
sion would be limited. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. NEW DEGATE opposed the exemption, as he did
not believe the opinion of any Roman Catholic barrister
was sufficient to justify the exclusion. He obiected to
allowing Roman Catholic charities to remain under the
arbitrary control of Cardinal Wiseman and the clergy of
the Roman Catholic Church. Suppose the operation of
this bill, if it was extended to Roman Catholic charities,
did disclose a state of things which showed that there
were some of them opposed to the existing law, what
difficulty was there in the way of introducing a few
simple words providing for such a case, and thus pre-
vent the confiscation or alienation of Roman Catholic
trust property. Under these circumstances ho protested
against this exclusion, as it would open the door still
further to the machinations of the Roman Catholic
Church, and enable Cardinal Wiseman and others of her
emissaries who came to this country charged with
penary powers to divert Roman Catholic Trusts from
their original purposes to the use of the Church of Rome
itself. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. HEA_DLAM was glad to hear the concluding re-
mark of the noble lord the member for the City of Lon-
don, for until that announcement was made he had been
under the impression that this exclusion was to be per-
manent. It was now clear, however, so far at least as
the noble lord was concerned, that this exemption was
only to be temporary ; and he could have no difficulty,
therefore, in adopting the proposal of the Government,
upon the understanding that they would incorporate
with it the amendment which he himself had suggested,
namely, that the exemption should only extend to two
years. He would therefore conclude by moving an
addition to the clause to that effect.
Mr. BOWYER said it was a mistake to suppose that the
creation of the Roman Catholic hierarchy gave the Ro-
man Catholic bishops more control over Roman Catholic
charities than they possessed before. He accepted this
clause as amended ; and in doing so he had no objection
to declare, on behalf of the Roman Catholics, that if it
was found hereafter that this measure would affect their
charities only to the same extent that it affected
other charities, there would be no objection to a mea-
sure being passed to bring them under its provisions.
Sir F. THESIGER was determined to divide upon
the clause, because it involved a matter of principle. It
went, in fact, the length of declaring that Roman Ca-
tholics ought to be put upon a different footing to those
of other religious bodies, and to that principle he could
never assent. (Hear.)
The house then divided, when there appeared
For the clause
Against it 76
Majority
The clause was accordingly added to the bill.
ROYAL ASSENT.

Mr. Pulman, the Yeoman Usher of the Black Rod,
here appeared at the table, and commanded the house
to attend at the bar of the Peers, to bear the royal
assent given by commission to several public and private
bills, for which see Lords' report.
CHARITABLE TRUSTS BILL.
The discussion on this bill was then resumed.
On the motion of Mr. PHINN, a proviso was added to
the bill bringing all schools with charitable foundations
under the act.
Mr. KINNAIRD moved an amendment with the
view of excluding such societies as the Christian Know-
ledge, or the Bible Society, or the Religious Tract
Society, from the operation of the bill.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said there was no
necessity to add this amendment to the bill, as such
societies which it contemplated were already excluded.
The amendment was therefore withdrawn.
The bill as amended was then considered, and ordered
to be read a third time on Monday.
ASSESSED TAXES BILL.
This bill was considered as amended, and ordered to
be read a third time to-morrow.
The other twelve o'clock orders were disposed 4 and
the house rose at 4 o'clock.
The house resumed at six o'clock.
PETITIONS.
TOM
and Halifax, in favour of ocean p
favour
t 'lie n
of opening the
Petitions were presented by Mr. M. Gibsostna,gfer,omanQaufebec
a public meeting in Manchesiri‘ i
Dunlop, from certain
Crystal Palace on Sundays ; y ht.
ventual institutions ;
ortsecbteedshiagealtiat
inhabitants of Glasgowb,yfosr.irp
jro.tlevcailomnstiooy,infmroamtesthoef
mer-
chants 1
law of debtor and
ethheanhtosuasnedthotlheegriZabointanthtseofexthiseticnigty of London, praying
vindictive creditors,
creditor,. thatunfortun
nnadt that honesta ye
rbeediptio.
from the irresponsibility and unjust dealings of fraudulent
debtors ; by Mr. Grenfell, from the Local Board of Health
for the borough of New Windsor, in favour of the bill for
providing
0 fps
op roi school-
mastersdnatte dd burial grounds; by Mr. F. Scully, from
juries of the North Riding county of Tipperary at last
together with the salaries assizes, praying that the maintaining prisoners in gaol and
and mistresses, and half the expenses incurred
prosecuting prisoners,
by the Medical Charities Act, also the salaries of all the
in
Crown,th e l) i stmriacyt Lbuen a:si ci
(IA soyultn
of wthhoe arceona
Fund.
°bf;cethrse
TRUCK ACT AMENDMENT BILL.
Lord PALMERSTON said that many representations
had been made to him with respect to this bill,esentations
and workmen, and although they had by masters
n
opinion that some measure of the sortnot shaken his
he thought they were justly entitled be heard before
was required, still
to
Parliament legislated on the subject. It
intention to move that the bill beread was therefore his
day three months, with a view early
and refering it to a
next session of bring-
inga second time this
it forward in a modified form,
select committee, where both masters
and would have
respective
an opportunity of stating theirviews as to the
men
effect of the measure upon their
Mr. C. FORSTER expressed his regret interests.(Hear.)
the noble
lord had been compelled, for the reaaon t
stated, to post-
pone this bill, which was intended to resmedyacrying
evil

S T N

and his hops that it would be re-introduced at an early portant colonies of British Guiana, Trinidad, and Joe(' ee
period of next sessicn. , Guiana and Trinidad have listened to the advice oktini\•
•. _ e
The order for the second reading was the discharged. t Government at home, and much of the evils which f eA\'`, -4,. ;,---:-
TRANSPORTATION BILL. :, -,
suffered has been redressed, so far as the export of au a , '''''"
Lord PALM ERSTON intimated that he would take the '
and the state of industry are concerned. This fa '1"-Viete-e7 elki:ieitte
committee on this bill on Tuesday next, at 12 o'clock.
NEW BILLS. \is shown by official statements of the export of sugar
Mr. HUME said he was astonished to observe on the 1 from British Guiana and Trinidad in the years 1840
paper notice of six bills to be introduced that evening by 1 and 1552. From Guiana in 1840 were exported 579,000
the Secretary of the Board of Control, one of them re- cwt. of sugar, and in 1852, 838,000 cwt. There were ex-
lating to the important subject of transportation. The ported from Trinidad, in 1840, 245,000 cwt., and in 1852,
house ought to have explained why those measures had 483,000 cwt. ' • the exports from these two colonies together
been delayed till so late a period of the session ? being, in 1840, 824,000 cwt., and in 1852, 1,321,000 cwt.,
Lord PALMERSTON said that one of the bills referred being an increase of 497,000 cwt., or considerably more
to was intended to remedy a defect which existed in regard than 50 per cent. on the whole exports in 1840. (Hear.)
to marriages in the church of the Holy Trinity at Hulme. But in looking to Jamaica a very different result is found.
He did not imagine it would meet with any opposition. The exports of sugar from Jamaica in 1840 were 517,000
The bill which had been particularly adverted to by the cwt., and in 1852 they were 511,000 cwt. (Hear, hear.)
hon. member for Montrose was for the purpose of empower- There is a similar difference with regard to immigrants.
ing her Majesty's Attorney-General to transfer female con- It has been the policy of this country, in compliance with
victs to the House of Correction at Brixton. the desire of its colonies, that there should be a number of
THE OFFICE OF SPEAKER. immigrants imported, in order to supply the want of
Sir R. H. INGLIS, in rising to call the attention of the labour occasioned by the abolition of differential duties.
Now I find that in British Guiana, from 1840 to 1852,
house to the report of the select committee on the office of there were 49,000 immigrants, and in Trinidad 24,000,
Speaker, said that, adopting the suggestion of his right making 73,000 immigrants in those two colonies, while in
hon. friend and colleague the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Jamaica the whole for the twelve years has been only
he would not trouble the house with a long speech. He 14,000 s .i (Hear, hear.) Here, sir, therefore, is a very oh-
d fference between the state of these colonies, there
was the more induced to follow that course because,
vblecinng no difference whatever in regard to the imperial
having repeatedly brought the subject incidentally before
legislation respecting them. (Hear, hear.) If slavery was
aeimingttihcaean,cgsaaost likewise it was in Guiana and Tri-
on house—having introduced it somewhat more formally abolish.edslufignfaeJ:
-ewets 4Taadnlmaiitntae:l e ion
lcompetition mititihn
on the 17th of November last, on which occasion he re
n colonial d d
eooßnuettittihtteiree areef some4a ceived considerable encouragement from the right hon gen--
the case of Guiana and Trinidad.'
cumstances connected with t
cir-
tleman who then led the house, as well as from the noble
lord the member for the city of London baying, in conse- . which have at all times been a source of cilifficultym, Ira
goat, thatt
e total stoppage
1 quence of such encouragement, obtained in February last which, in these later years,e li.have been a source of very
great embarrassment, finally
the appointment of a select committee without a divi-
of the legislature to which hanveinmean
ofto
the house. I have already stated that Ido naottte
sion—and that committee having unanimously adopted
the report which had already been presented to the enter into the progress of that dispute, or to say theatnthe
house —he was in a condition to call attention to Council was right or that the Assembly was wrong, or
qurnestion the particular acts that were done b
Y
subject upon which as yet there had been little or the go-
veor on the one side or by the Assembl
no difference of opinion. Nor had he heard of any ob-
other. But there are certain—l may not call themenlatwhse
jection to the report of the committee, except one, in or provisions of the constitution of Jamaica, so much
which individually he concurred—namely, that it did not as established practices in the constitution of that island
go far enough in providing a remedy which all admitted to which have operated very injuriously to the colony.
needed. When he found, however, that the committee Now we have had to consider in respect to various colonies
could not unanimously and cordially concur in that larger the want of any representative institutions, such as we
measure, which alone would have completely satisfied him, think, and very justly think, will benefit cur colonies, as
but were still willing to adopt a plan which would meet a well as benefit the mother country. But in Jamaica, what
great proportion of existing evils, he was not disposed to we have had to complain of is, not the absence of represen-
ask the house to do more than sanction the report of the tative institutions so much as the perversion of those insti-
committee. His own opinion was that the best plan would
tutions to purposes which are not consistent with the wele
be to place in the chair, in the event of their being at any
fare of our colonial empire. We all know that in this
time unhappily deprived of the services of the Speaker, country, according to the practice of this house, no vote of
some one to discharge all the legal functions of that money es made unless upon the proposal of some Minister
office ; but the committee had judged otherwise, and had of the Crown, and that the Crown has in fact the initiative
agreed to recommend the house to place in the chair a gen in all grants of money, and all grants of money are made to
tleman who might discharge all its duties within the house, the Crown. An officer is appointed by the Crown to super-
but not exercise any of the other functions belonging to intend the expenditure of this grant, subject to the control,
the office of Speaker. When he considered, on the one a
hand, how thankful they ought to be for the long-con- n*, th hclesome rules have been departed from. Not
tinned presence among them of the right hon. gentleman and
esew
only have the House of Assembly the power of raising the
who now so worthily filled that office—(cheers)—and felt,
au lies
on the other, that the tax upon his time and strengthd the appropriation of those supplies, but they
an
might be carried to an injurious extent, he was sure the have for a long period of time taken under their own man-
house would agree in the opinion that something shouldlt has led, I •
agement all these money and regular disbursements. This
mink,
now be done to prevent so great a calamity. (Hear, hear.) practice has led to very great abuses. .
In the course of the last month the house had sat twenty- to very lavish expenditure at particular times, to grants
two days and had been 228 hours in session, giving an of money which were far in excess of the means of the co-
average of more than ten hours to each day of public sere bony, and at other times to a desire of economy not con-
vice. On sixteen of these days the Speaker had taken the sistent with justice, after the expectations that had been
chair at twelve o'clock, as well as at the evening meeting held out to various parties. And this leads me to another
of the house, and he had sat upon several occasions for error which has been committed, and that is, that while
there has been laws in Jamaica providing for the perms-
ore han f hours at a tie. In short, it might be
samfelyt stated thatourteen the attendancem given by the Speaker to rince of certain offices, these offices have only been maiu-
his public duty was such as very few other human beings,
the personsfaitl
slanted by votes from year to year. The consequence has been
oof.t those acts
been
no fdies the
pl ep
have accepted high udicial and other offices on
and certainly very few members of the house, could give.
expectations
ehort
(Hear, hear.) He moved " That whenever the house shallrelatorsin tedbyo fv
otes
g
informed of the unavoidable absence of Mr. Speaker, the •Jamaica,efmeannedythweir.
Chairman of Ways and Means do take the chair for that 'salaries as have been just expectations, and not giving such
day only ; and, in the event of Mr. Speaker's absence con- do not wish to enteren.promised by those permanent acts. I
tinuing for more than one day, do, if the house shall think natural for the Assemblyiito.the merits of these votes. It is
fit and shall so order it, take the chair in like manner on to claim a right of action . having the control of these matters
any subsequent day during such absence."
of the Crown can be expected to accept
Lord J. RUSSELL, in seconding the motion, said he afterwards submit to have their sal • e things, and
would not make this a personal question, becaused he be- away or reduced very considerably. salaries
Latterly her taken
lieved there was only one opinion in the house as to the upon which great dispute has arise was a proposal Rpat
of
value of the services of the Speaker (cheers); but con- taking away 25 per cent. from the salaries ofiro
these' officers.
sidering it as a general question affecting the performance Such being the state of affairs it was, of course' a question
of the functions of the house, he thought they would be what should be the course taken by her Majesty's Go-
blind to the consequences of the very great labour imposed vernment with respect to this condition of the island of
upon the occupant of the chair if they did not adopt the Jamaica, and in so considering it I must beg to ask the
recommendation contained in the report of the select corn- attention of the house to an extract from a message of
mittee. It was of the utmost importance that, in case of the late Governor of Jamaica, Sir Charles Grey, which
the absence of the Speaker, supposing the business of the points out the evil, and suggests the remedies which he at
house to be of great and urgent interest, they should be the time thought would tend to remove them. Sir Charles
able to proceed without delay, and should not have merely Grey says, " With the prospects which are before us, it is,
to address the clerks, but some person who should be able perhaps, of little present use to say what might be done
to preside over their deliberations. The opinion of the by a single-minded effort for the peace and welfare of the
select committee, in which he entirely concurred, was island ; but as all this ruinous distraction, by the frequent
that they should only carry the remedy as far as it was recurrence of which Jamaica has been, throughout its an-
absolutely necessary, and should avoid any measure which eats, so unhappily distinguished, appears to use to be the
would at all fetter the discretion and choice of the house direct and unavoidable result of some perversions of the
in case of a vacancy in the office of Speaker. They were model institutions of England, so I believe that the main
anxious that the house should not, by any previous resolu- and immediate mischief would be remedied at once, by ro-
tion or decision, be at all committed to any particular can- verting in those few particulars to English rules, and by
didate for the office, but should choose that person who, the Hon. House of Assembly being contented with a power
at the time, should appear best qualified to fulfil the im- as perfectly analagous to that of the British House ofCom-
portant functions which belonged to the Speaker of that mons as it might be possible to make it, which, after all,
house. He thought the committee had been successful in perhaps, would be found to be as great a power for every
their proposal. They proposed that only for one day good purpose as that which it possesses at present, or even
should any person assume the chair in the absence of the supposes itself to possess. Therefore, whensoever, and in
Speaker—that afterwards it should be entirely in the whatsoever manner opportunity and leisure maybe found
choice of the house whom they should place there—and or created, Irecommend that your attention should be given
that the person whom they should appoint to supply this —first, to a regulation of the civil and ecclesiastical estab-
temporary vacancy, should be one who, as Chairman of lishments, by reductions which shall either be prospective,
Ways and Means, had already an official and recognised or shall be made upon the basis of a fair and moderate
position in the house,' and who, upon the return of the compensation for existing interests ; secondly, to the pro-
Speaker, or upon the election of a new Speaker, would vision of a permanent fund for the payment of the reduced
fall back upon his former situation. (Hear, hear.) He establishments ; thirdly to the enabling of the Gover-
had great pleasure in seconding the motion of the hon. nor, for the time being, to employ ministerial officers,
baronet, and trusted it would meet with the concurrence holding seats in the Assembly, to bring forward Go-
of the house. (Hear, hear.) vernment measures in that house." These are the re-
Mr. BRIGHT agreed with the noble lord that it was not commendations of the late Governor of Jamaica. (Hear-
desirable to carry the remedy further than was necessary ; hear.) Some years ago there was a question in Ja-
but he was not sure that the committee in the present maks, which I think was brought before the Assem-
instance were not doing so ;at least, although he had been bly, whether or not the institutions of that colony should
in the house about ten years, he had not known any occa- not be assimilated to those of Canada. The Secretary of
sion—certainly not more than one—in which the house State for the Colonies declared hi- readiness to adopt that
I
had not been able to sit in consequence of the absence of proposal, and at the same time pointed out the difference
the Speaker. That might have been a hardship to the between the institutions of Canada and those of Jamaica ;
right hon. gentleman, however, and so far might be cited for in Canada there is a permanent provision by means of
as an argument in favour of a change. But his object in a civil list, passed into an act of the provincial Parliament,
rising was for the purpose of saying that, if the Chairman by which certain officers are permanently provided for;
of Ways and Means was to have a new dignity, it would and there is also the rule that grants to the Crown are to
be desirable to have him appointed in a different manner be initiated and proposed by officers of the Crown. That
from that which had hitherto prevailed. When Mr. change, however, was not adopted. Her Majesty's Go-
Bouverie was appointed to the office, very few members of vernment now propose to act generally upon the basis of
the house knew anything about him, and he was nominated this proposal. They do not propose what has been con-
by the noble lord the member for the city of London with- templated by some persons—to suspend the representative
out previous notice, and in an inaudible tone of voice. He constitution of Jamaica. It is urged, I know, that the
spoke thus freely, not out of any discourtesy towards the Assembly being elected by only 3,000 persons out of
hon. member for Kilmarnock, whose intimate acquain- 400.000, the population of Jamaica, is a very incomplete
tance with the forms of the house they all knew, and who, representation, and ought not to be considered as conati-
if be were to be again appointed, would have his cordial toting a representation of the people of the island of
support, but because he desired to call attention to the Jamaica. But, setting aside that consideration, at least
subject now, in connection with the report of the select for the present time, what the Government wish to do is,
committee upon the office of Speaker. if possible, to induce the Assembly and the Council to
Mr. DISRAELI was convinced, having been a member agree to terms which may serve as a basis far harmonious
of the select committee, that the propositions now before action for the future. (Hear, h .) ear What we propose,
the house were the best they could have been adopted, and I therefore, is, in the first place, that there should be a per-
he thought he might say that almost every combination of I
i manent act containing grants for those offices for which it
circumstances which could occur respecting the subject of is fit that a permanent salary should be given ; I mean, of
them were considered by the committee before they arrived course, judicial offices, which should be of a permanent
at their adoption. The resolutions provided for a contin- character ; and, in the next place, it is proposed that in
gency which they all sincerely hoped would not happen in the Assembly of Jamaica, as in the House of Commons,
their own experience. (Hear, hear.) It did not seem to no grant should be made except upon the proposal of some
him that the objection of the hon. member for Manchester person representing the Crown, and that the Crown
was a valid one. He was not aware that it was at all should have persons speaking the sense of the Crown, and
unknown to any party or any gentleman in the house I representing it in that Assembly, as the house is well
that Mr. Bouverie would be proposed as Chairmen of aware is the case in Canada, by means of what is called
Ways and Means. It had always been tho practice, when responsible Government, namely, by confiding the offices
that office was vacant, to propose to fill it up on the of the Crown to persons having the confidence of the ma-
occasion of the first committee of supply. When he had , jority in the Assembly. It may not be possible or
the honour of a seat on the Treasury benches it was his wise to adopt precisely similar provisions in Jamaica,
duty to propose a gentleman as Chairmam of Ways and I but at the same time we are of opinion that there
Means, and on that occasion he followed the usual rule, should be some persons under the Crown who should
The noble lord was perfectly acquainted with his intention. I make proposals of grants of money to the Assembly, and
and, indeed, approved of the name he brought forward, as ' that the officers of the Crown should be the persons re-
ho, in turn, had the happiness to do when the noble lord, sponsible for the expenditure of that money. It is a source
at a subsequent period, nominated the hon. member for of the greatest abuse that members of the House of Assem-
Kilmarnock. I bly should themselves expend the money, and this system
Mr. HUME approved of the resolutions, and hoped the I produces evils. (Hear, hear.) These are the three things
house would seriously consider what improvement could be 1 that we propose, namely, that there should be a perma-
made in the mode of conducting public business. He could I nent revenue for those offices which are placed ou a per-
not think it was decent that members of that house should I manent footing, that the initiative grants of money should
be returning to their houses at two or three o'clock in the I always be with the representatives of the Crown, and that
Ithe House of Assembly, or persons
morning, after an absence of twelve or fourteen hours; and . certain members of
persons
he trusted that, whoever might have the arrangement of ! properly entitled, should bethe ners •responsible for the
business next session, they would not have midnight sittings , expenditure of the public money. On the other hand,
to endeavour to place the finances of
entailed upon them. If he were spared till next session, I however,.
we
propose more sound footing than they
he should certainly, though he stood alone, set his face I Jamaica on a . f . t are on at
o'clock. ; present. There is, or ins mice, a üblic debt in Jamaica,
against proceeding with business after twelve
I besides the ere is,
to thi - , , e•
s, eleo an ing to no lees than
Sir J. PAKINGTON said he did not rise to oppose the . _
to eubmit ' wu,ohue and for which an interest of six per cent.
resolutions, in which he heartily concurred, but . is on
lan average paid. We propose that
bl
to the noble lord opposite whether it would not be desire, e, the. Imperial Parlia-
ment, ou the proposition of the Cr'
at the commencement of next session, to renew that tom- Government, should give
1 a uarantee for the : nent
mittee upon the forms of the house which tat three or g . PVI of the interest due for that
'ons were debt, while at the same tim sinking'
four years ago, and some of whose recommendations e a fund should be
9 rovided. 'These
adopted with great advantage to the business of the house .i p_ • ese two provisions, the one of a guarantee and
He could not help thinking that the house bad outgrown the other of a sinking fund, would enable the Assembly very
its forms, and that the time had come when they ought to greatly to reduce the interest of that debt, and probably
endeavour to find a remedy for the present state of things, lat 3.-; per cent. they would secure that 500000/. But
in which important business was brought forward at a time 1
there remains another sum which it i ' s proposed t o gua-
when a large proportion of the most influential and able;ranted. The difficulties which have occurred in Jamaica
members of the house had left town, and when those who I have very much arisen of late
remained, whether in or out of office, were discharging their I taiu salaries of official the subject of ter-
remained,
sacrifice ofpersonal inconvenience,persons. It is contended that the
duty at a great
cease every year, are in
some risk to their health. It was of the highest importance ;proposing and •
carrying those tax bills, to make any arrange-
that the business of the house should be so conducted as 1 meat they i.a think fit for the 'of•lt is
reduction . salaries..
not to deter competent mon from seeking the confidence of c t 1 .d. r Y
on ere e , on the other hand, by the Council, that it would
constituencies. He did not wish to pledge himself to any \be a breach of faith to the persons accepting permanent
particular scheme of improvement in the formsof '
house, or to go along with the hon, member for Surrey in ' ''
all the observations he made the other night,
or in recom- , it appears to us that the quarrel might be settled by
mending a morning sitting, but he saw no reason why the ' proposition that in the case of those officers
house should not meet in the second kof - 'a - holders should
wee January, in- 1 which it is proposed to reduce the
stead of the first week of February. receive a guarantee amounting to half a year's salary,
The motion was then agreed to. so that those persons might not be deprived of the prospect
THE ISLAND OF JAMAICA. which bail been held out to them. In order ton o a
certain
would be necessary that the Assembly should gra
Lord J. RUSSELL : I said that I wouldthis ' that sum
evening sum for that purpose, and we do not think that
osed,
state • • rlt is P P
the intentions of the Government with regard to the . should be calculated at less than 50,0001. a opoi•r°nraking
colony of Jamaica. lam not going to enter into a history I therefore, that a loan to a further amountof
bOi
this house.
550,00 Gt. altogether, should be guaranteedth this whole sub-
of the progress of that dissension which has occurred be- 1
, is another means in connection wi .
ye a fair chance
tween the Assembly and the Council of Jamaica. All that jrehcetrwehich is equally necessary in order to g
Tliie house is well
I wish to refer to is the fact that the Assembly have passed of success to the proposed exp rini •
' e ad ent•hen the right hon.
bills for the provision of the revenue,and that the bills aware that Sir C. Grey had air? Y, , was in office, dis.
ose
opposite (Sir J. Pakingwn) ; a i if.
ma-ca —IIT.II __e
which were absolutely necessary for carrying on the public I gentleman . _
overnor
of g .
Icharged the Junctions of G
ffices are held. He has dis-
service, appeared to the Council to be so objectionable that
i full period for which these o
signal success, andhasbeen
the Council refused their concurrence. The Governor in I charged those duties with
fromvrer(
0 prevent those faults and
Council was obliged to suspend the meetings of the Assem- able, up to thie p
bervenin,ir ea xist in the constitution of Js-
bly, and the whole state of legislation in the island of errors being
p roduCtive of the manifest consequences
make.
have now resulted in. My noble friend
Jamaica remains in suspense. Now, in considering any
which we see they
Newcastle, now Secretary of State for the Co-
question with respect to the West Indian colonies, we the Duke
coofnidering
among the persons holding official
must no doubt always bear in mind that within the last aies,i 1
in the colonies who there was who might behest
twenty years two very great changes have taken place— situations from his knowledge, and experience,and talent,
nt in their chat- calculatel, greatest success to bring the different parts of the
t tho
changes which were designed to be permane .
L• 1 with of Jamaica into d
by the Imperial as
'le a- Legislature harmony, and restore the con-
rector, and which were enforce
l't'on of slavery, and stitution of the island to a sound state, has been of opinion
tore. The first of these was the abolition i
o ntr of foreign that Sir H. Barkly, who has for several years been Gover-
the other was the admission into this c u
colonialy sugar. nor of the colony of BritishGuiaua, and who certainly had •
equal footing with our 0wn.4..n
own-
great difficulties to deal with when he first went there,
sugar on an e
to so much objec.ron a d would be the best person to be appointed Governor of
as
These two great changes led
d likewise to so Jamaica. He h
the colonies, they le has accordingly recommended to her Majesty
plaint on the part of h were
'es, that although I think tey to appoint Sir H. Barkly to this important office, and the
much loss to the colonirinci
ples, and that the Legislature Government is of opinion that there could be no person
founded upon sound P
Ido not think it is advisable, in better qualified for the purpose. A question naturally arises
aid well to adopt them,
prevails in any of the Assemblies with respect to the salary of the governor, and it would be
where discontent
extreme the most unfortunate if the salary of the governor should fur-
any "se
Indian islands,to push to any
t
o 7 the Wes
(Hear, hear,) ) With respectappointment of 0 h th b d 1 uld
Government.
• Ms of the Go
rig I beg leave to point out be a very great misfortune if the office of Governor of Ja-
ange however,
to this last ch ,
the is between the three most im- maica were by a reduction of salary made of less •
difference that there iiii