The Sun.
London, England, 1853-03-02 00:00:00

again. (Hear, and a laugh.) So that in that case there
had been five distinct instances of the payment of legacy
duty since 1836 ; and if it had not been left in each case
to persons so near of kin to the several testators the
amount paid in duty, increasing as it did in each more
remote degree of consanguinity, must have been enor-
mous. He maintained that it was a gross injustice to
tax this species of property, while other kinds in the
neighbourhood, just as accessible to the touch of the tax-
gatherer, was left altogether unassailed. (Hear, hear.)
He could not understand anything more fatal to good
order, or to the confidence of the people in the Govern-
ment, than a belief out of doors that there was an inte-
rest in the governing power which led it to tax heavily
on one spot and lightly, or not at all, on another. The
Chancellor of the Exchequer had alluded to the question
of local taxation as being in some degree a balance and a
compensation for the tax under consideration ' • but there
was really nothing in that. It only reminded him that a
late Chancellor of the Exchequer, the right hon. gentleman
the member for Halifax (Sir C. Wood), under similar cir-
cumstances, fell back upon the stamp duty ; and now the
present Chancellor of the Exchequer fell back upon the
subject of local taxation. Neither of those arguments
had any force, because the legacy duty was imposed
long before stamps or any local taxes. He had now
shown the gross inequalities of the present tax ; and it
was for the interest of Parliament and the country that
the Chancellor of the Exchequer should be encouraged
to take the right course in this matter. He had only
now to say, that if ever the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer did set his heart to work to consider this question,
(he Mr. Bright) hoped he would also take into his con-
sideration, in connection with it, the barbarous principle
of consanguinity, by which one man receiving property
by' descent paid 11. per cent. legacy duty ; another, a
nephew, 31. per cent. ; and another, a stranger, 101.
per cent. An illegitimate child was even taxed 101.
per cent., as if its illegitimacy was a crime upon itself.
(Hear' hear.) Nothing, he submitted, could be
more barbarous than a state of things like that. At
all events, the main question was before the public that
the Exchequer had received within the last fifty-five
years some 80,000,0001. or 90,000,0001. from the duty
in question, the greater portion of which had been charged
upon a class of society during all that time very ade-
quately represented in that house, and who believed it
'had been so raised just because the landed proprietors of
the country were very adequately repiesented there.
(Hear, heat.) He must say that he bad very high expecta-
tions of the present Chancellor of the Exchequer, and
he would beg of the right hon. gentleman not to be
afraid of the hobgoblins which had been raised by the
right hon. gentleman opposite (Mr. Henley), but fairly
to grapple with this question, and settle it in a way
which would meet with general satisfaction throughout
the country. (Cheers,)
Mr. WILKINSON said he agreed in the principle in-
volved in the motion of his hon. colleague, but he could
not see the use of pressing it to a division after the state-
ment which it had elicted from the Chancellor of the
Exchequer. Should his colleague, however, be still dis-
posed to divide the house, he (Mr. Wilkinson) would
vote with him.

Mr. WILLIAMS briefly replied.
The house then divided, when there appeared—
For the motion 7l
Against it 124

Majority against the motion 53
THE CASE OF M. BONACICH.
Mr. MTJNTZ moved for a select committee to inquire
into the petition of M. Bonacick relative to the improper
seizure of the Novello, and to report how far he was en-
titled to compensation from the British Government.
Captain SCOBELL seconded the motion.
Lord PALMERSTON stated that there was no man
who would be more zealous than himself to do justice to
the fair claims- of any foreigner upon the Government of
this country, and upon every principle of equity and
justice the Government was bound to satisfy all just
claims made upon it. His objection to granting the
committee was, that the claim had been already fully in-
vestigated both at the Treasury and at the Foreiffn-
office, and he would advise the house not to consent to
the appointment of the committee, as he did not believe
that the individual for whom the committee was asked
had the slightest legal claim upon the Government of
this country.
Lord STANLEY said that he thought that an act of
injustice had been committed in this case, and that the
house and the country were bound: in some measure to
repair it. It was quite true that H. Bonacich was put
into prison at the suit of a private person, but his impri-
sonment was caused solely by the difficulties of the posi-
tion in which he was placed by the conduct of the Admi-
ralty in seizing his vessel. He did not think the house
was a fit tribunal to judge of the merits of the question,
and as he believed there existed a wrimil fade case, he
thought the house ought not to refine the inquiry asked
for.

Mr. M. GIBSON thought that on the face of these
transactions there existed a primd facie case for inquiry.
Mr. MUXTZ stated that the vestsel was detained for
seven years, and sold for 1,0001., the whole of which sum,
with the exception of 1341., was appropriated to the pay-
ment of the Admiralty and brokers' fees.
After a few words from Mr. French, Mr. Hume, and
Mr.' Wilson,

Lord PALMERSTON, in answer to an appeal made
by an hon. member, stated that he had performed his
duty in stating the reasons why he thought the claim
was unfounded, and that the appointment of the com-
mittee would only involve an unnece scary waste of the
time of hon. members. As it appeared, however, to be
the general opinion of the house that the inquiry should
be gone into, he would waive his objection to the ap-
pointment of the committee.
The motion was then agreed to.
GRIEVANCES OF THE LETITER-CARRIERS.

Mr. T. DUNCOMBE said he has I no doubt the house
was in favour of the resolution he had to propose • and if
the Government would assent to it, he would not; trouble
the house with any arguments in support of it. The re-
solution was—" That it appears to this house, from the
numerous petitions presented during the present session by
the letter-carriers of Great Britain ai ad Ireland, that, con-
sidering the responsible and arduous nature of their employ-
ment, the amount of their official salaries is generally in-
sufficient, and that their complaints of its inadequacy
merit the attention of her Majesty's Government.' He
brought this motion forward in consequence of the nume-
rous petitions that had been presented from the letter-car-
riers of above 400 towns and district; in England, Scot-
land, Ireland, and Wales. They complained of the inade-
quacy of their pay, and stated that their sufferings had
been greatly aggravated in consequence of an order of the
Postmaster-General in July last, proldbiting them from
soliciting the Christmas-boxes which VII ey been in the habit
of receiving. He did not advocate the system of paying
public servants by gratuities ; he believed it to be bad and
vicious—(hear)—and he believed the I etter-carriers them-
selves thought so. But when these :gratuities formed a
considerable part of their salary, they a ught not to be taken
away without the salary being adv .nced in proportion.
Continual returns had been called for as to the amount of
the salaries and gratuities of these ofli cers ; and they had
been told, when applying for increased salaries,
that a portion of their pay was derived from Christmas-
boxes and gratuities. The order of fb e Postmaster-Gene-
ral applied originally to the letter-carriers of the whole
country, including the metropolis. The district letter-
carriers, or Two-penny Postmen, as th e y were called, num-
bered about 900 ; the general post It r tter-carriers, about
300. Hearing what was in contempla Lion by the Govern-
ment, they made representations to tl ie Postmaster-Gene-
ral, and the order was immediately au epended as regarded
the metropolitan letter-carriers. But; it was still in force
as regarded the provincial letter-carrif yrs ; and it was only
in abeyance as to the London letter-caa Tiers, and might be
enforced next Christmas. But why a hould there be any
distinction? Tho public cheerfully paid the gratuities,
thinking that the men were under-paid.. He had to com-
plain of the system pursued in the post delivery of the me-
tropolis. Why there should be any distinction between
the two classes of letter-carriers in the metropolis, he could
not understand ; but if there was to be a distinction, it
ought rather to be in favour of the dist; id letter-carliers,
the men with blue coats. The duties otf the men with red
coats were over about ten o'clock in the morning, or they
were only engaged in sorting letters for the others. They
received from 235. to 30s. a week, with. a very good super-
annuation allowance. The diStrict let ber-carriers had ten
deliveries in the day, and they also as sisted in delivering
the general post letters. But the 1 p•eat hardship fell
on the provincial letter-carriers. Their appeal to the house
was not premature ; for they had t aken every means
to obtain redress from the Postmaster-General, and
were assured that he had no power to :relieve them. As
many as 369 memorials from different -towns and districts
had been presented to the Postmaster-Gteneral ; and no re-
dress whatever had been obtained. li le (Mr. I)uncombe)
had received from 400 to 500 letters on the subject, repre-
senting that the case was one of grew:, hardship, and re-
questing him to bring it before the ho use. The whole of
the provincial newspapers were advocaAing, much to their
credit, the cause of the letter carriers. There was scarcely
a gentleman in the house who had not had to present peti-
tions on the subject. Another ground of complaint by these
persons was that their small pay was slopped during sick-
ness. One letter carrier at Deal was knocked down by a
horse and cart ; his ribs were fractured, and he sustained
other serious injuries. He was unaloae to attend to his
duties for four months ; his stipend was stopped, and he
could obtain no relief from the Postmaster-General. When
on duty this man had to walk 20 miles a day ; he was at
work from six in the morning till eight at night ; and for
this he only received 14s. a week. In some of the large
towns the number of letter carriers was extremely small
in proportion to the population, Manchester, with 300,000
inhabitants, had 80 ; Leeds, 20 ; Sheffield, 15 ; Bradford,
7, with 5 assistants. These men had no superannuation al-
lowances. An old woman at Beaminster,, who had acted as
letter-carrier for 40 years, had recently be en dismissed with-
out any allowance. The Postmaster-General's answer to such
applications was that he had no power to grant any relief;
the Legislature ought to give him this power ; for this was
a cage where the public wished to be taxed in order that
these deserving officers might be properly remunerated.
(Hear.) Cases of defalcation were frequently occurring,
altu,ad the way to get honest servants was to give them adequate
and ahtahe-ehgo(ellptetdrtryar.h)heai
house
Much to
nwtoouuptihiheirentecelirtaviatmliint,.oitft.htehemise dplersoclnasssand ;
Mr. EWAH,Tseconding the motion, said he bad re-
ceived a strong representation
this of
wages paid to letter-caeril.
e from his own constituents as
There was great variety in
thet t the
frrs
omi2no.d.iiffnearLenontdpoanrttsoo7fste country; the amount ranged
whichotill ? Liverpool
letter-carriers com-
p n
ot aorrecreation.moments
some country towns. The memorial from
leisurTehebye2o complained
lained of the long hours during
allowed for
of their wages being so much lower than those of the Lon-
donimprovement letter carriers.
Mr. NEVirDEGATE said he could easily conceive that
gr eat hardship was inflicted by the order in question. It
anomaly that the letter-carriers
was an allol in London h 1
receive Christmas-boxes, while those in be allowed to in the
thee
provinces were not.s
The result would be that
would be worse performed.
Mr. J. WlLSO.Li.servicein the provinces ,
said he entirely comm.-fed in much
that had fallen from Mr. Duncombo. Regarding their
numbers and station in
life, there could not be found a
praiseworthy set of men than the
!etter-carriers, upon whom
more respectable and
devolved most important duties.
Looldng at the responsible position -which they held, theh
they to perform—a
;Teat
amount of labour whiz
had
co
• nearer to mmon la-
leicription of labour which, being
te than any kind of
boar, was therefore paid at a lower ra

skilled labour—these things commended them to the con-
sideration of the house. Attention had been called to the
case of the country letter-carriers, who were prohibited
from soliciting, not from receiving, Christmas-boxes,
though that probably did not make much difference. The
Postmaster-General very much concurred in the observa-
tions that had been made on their case. He had it at this
moment under consideration, with a view to rectifying it
in such a way as should prove of advantage to the Post-
office service. (Hear.) As the question involved a large
sum of money, there being thousands of persons employed
as letter-carriers throughout the country, it would be right
to allow the Postmaster-General full time to consider the
best mode of meeting the case. (Hear, hear.) As to the
London letter-carriers, the Postmaster-General was also
quite prepared to admit that there was at present an ine-
quality greater than was sanctioned or justified-by the dif-
ference of duties they had to perform, and which ought to
be remedied in some way or other. (Hear, hear.) A dif-
ference had subsisted for some years. It had arisen out
of circumstances very different from those now existing.
The frequent arrival of mails during the day, and the
arrival of foreign mails, the contents of which must
necessarily be conveyed to every district at the earliest
possible moment, had greatly increased the duties de-
volving on the district letter-carriers. One of the ori-
ginal reasons in favour of a higher remuneration to the
twopenny-postmen still existed—they were obliged to
attend at very early hours to assist in the in-door business
of sorting letters. The difference of wages was not so
great as that of the superannuation allowance ; and the
public service had probably been injured by reducing the
superannuation allowance, because men sought to retain
the situations longer than they were able to perform the
duties. At present the superannuation allowance to the
general post letter-carriers varied from 201. to 501., accord-
ing to the length of service ; the highest amount that had
recently been given was 231. Bs. The Postmaster-General
allowed that that was a subject which would readily ad-
mit of some consideration. The complaint of the provin-
cial letter-carriers was already under his lordship's consi-
deration ; and he (Mr. Wilson) was sure the house would
rather leave the matter in his hands, with a view to arriv-
ing at a fair arrangement than deal with it themselves.
As to the anomalies said to exist in various parts of the
country, nothing could be more unfair or unjust than
that salaries should be paid to public servants without re-
gard to the ordinary wages in those districts. It was well
known that the rate of wages was very different
at Hertford, for instance, from what it was in a large
manufacturing town like Glasgow; and it was the duty of
the Postmaster-General to consider at what rate he could
• get those services performed. He would be much blamed
were he to pay 20s. a week to those men in the agricultu-
ral districts, because they were receiving 20s. in Liverpool
and other large towns. The honourable gentleman lied
said, that the number of postmen should be in pro-
portion to the population. He could not take a more
fallacious test. At Liverpool packets were arriving at all
hours of the night, at uncertain times ; and to consult the
convenience of the commercial public, who were anxious
to have the letters brought by those packets with the least
delay, it was necessary to have a large force of men in
waiting, in order that no time might be lost on the arrival
of a packet. Again, at Birmingham, which was a great
thoroughfare for the mails to and from other towns, it was
impossible that the number ,of men employed in the Post-
office service should be regulated by the population of the
place, or that it should be any test at all. This was a
question of very serious financial interest; He was cer-
tain the house would not be parsimonious in doing justice
to such a deserving body of men ; but, considering the
immense amount of money paid for the management of
the Post-office, and the large proportion of the receipts now
sacrificed (he did not say improperly so) in that way, it
was evident that the slightest increase in the wages of
thousands of persons, unless absolutely necessary, must
form a very large charge upon the remaining small balance.
Wherever application was made to the Postmaster-General
or the Treasury in cases of this kind, a remedy was applied
if necessary. But it would be impossible to lay down a
general rule • he therefore hoped the house would leave the
Government to deal with the cases as they occurred, ac-
cording to the merits of each ; and each case would receive
the utmost attention.

After some further discussion, the motion was with
drawn.

ECCLESIASTICAL COURTS.

Mr. COLLIER rose to move for a select committee for
the purpose of inquiring whether the Ecclesiastical Courts
might not be advantageously abolished, their jurisdiction
over all matters not purely ecclesiastical transferred to
other existing tribunals, and new courts established for
the purpose of dealing speedily and effectually with mat-
ters purely ecclesiastical ; and whether the jurisdiction of
the Court of Admiralty might not be advantageously trans-
ferred to local tribunals. He had not given this notice
until the intention of the Government, with reference to
the ecclesiastical courts, had been announced on the highest
authority. Had their announcement been satisfactory he
should not have interfered, but he was sorry to say it was
not so, as Government proposed to wait for the report of
the commission, and then only to interfere with the eccle-
siastical jurisdiction of the courts; whereas, in his opinion,
the better way would be to see whether they could not be
abolished altogether. (Hear, hear.) With respect to the
commission, he had this to say, that it was to a great ex-
tent composed of civilians practising in these courts, and
it was not unnatural to suppose that they would be inclined
to favour the courts in which they themselves practised.
(Hear.) The distinction between law and equity was bad
enough, but here, what with their civilian, their registrars,
their doctors, proctors, and surrogates, these ecclesiastical
courts were the greatest abuse that had lasted down
to modern times. They had over and over again
been reported against and condemned. In 1830 a
commission containing judges of the courts themselves,
after examining 30 or 40 witnesses, reported against them.
but recommended an inadequate remedy—the abolition of
all the courts except those of York and Canterbury. A.
committee of the House of Lords fully considered the sub-
ject in 1845, and reported for the abolition of the testamen-
tary jurisdiction, and a bill passed that house substituting
a central tribunal, but it was thrown out in the Commons.
Subsequently the Irish courts were subjected to an inves-
tigation, and they were equally condemned. The general
concurrence of opinion was for the abolition of the courts,
and his belief was that nothing short of that would meet
the exigency. First, as to their jurisdiction over wills,
and their administration. This jurisdiction was originally
usurped. Our Saxon ancestors, before the conquest, were
in the habit of settling these questions in the old county
court, and it was not until the Norman conquest that the
clergy got hold of the jurisdiction. The reason given might
perhaps amuse the house. It was said that ecclesiastics,
being in at the death of the testator, would know his in-
tentions better than any one else, and would know what
was good for his soul, which they generally ascertained
to be the appropriation of his property to pious uses. (A
laugh.) They took care that none went to payment of
his debts, and it was not until the time of Edward 111.
that they were compelled to depute administration to his
relatives. The number of these courts at present in exist-
ence was 372. (Hear, hear.) They were archbishops,
archdeacons, vicars, and manor courts, with several others,
and so numerous were they that it was almost impossible
to get at the limits of their jurisdiction. This led to the
greatest expense and uncertainty on- taking out letters of
administration and in questions relating to the disposal of
the vastly increasing personal property of the country.
With respect to the expense, he found the salary of Sir H.
J. Fust to be for 1849, 3,9041. 13s. Bd., and that of Mr.
Moore, the registrar, 8,2651.175. 4d. (Loud cries of " Hear,
hear.") For this enormous salary the registrar never did a
single duty, although having for thirty years received the
sum of 300,0001. (Hear, hear.) He certainly could not
understand how the hon._ member for Montrose had rested
for the last twenty-five years with such an abuse in exis-
tence. (Cheers and laughter.) (Mr. Hume—l attacked it
twenty-five years ago.) Yes, but the hon. member had let
it rest ever since. There were three deputy-registrars
with salaries 2,3221.125., andthree clerks 8321. 125., which
dwindled in 1852 to 8.51.175. 2d. Now these clerks did all
the business, while Mr. Moore got all the emolument. It
might be expected that the functionaries of these courts
would at least provide secure receptacles for the valuable
documents of which they insisted upon having the charge,
but the fact was that they were kept in an unprotected
room, next to a wheelrights, and there was constant dan-
ger that they might be all suddenly consumed. The com-
missioners had decided that a new building should be pro-
vided at the expense of the registrar, but their recommen-
dation had not been attended to. Again, it was almost
impossible to find a will. To a rich man it was difficult,
but to a poor man generally impossible. The suits in
these courts were most expensive. They could not deal
with all the questions that arose relative to the ad-
ministration of personal property, and some of their de-
crees must be enforced by a suit at common law. In con-
sequence of these and other defects a will was often con-
tested in these courts at once ; in illustration of which he
would state a case that had occurred about ten years since.
A gentleman died in Devonshire about ten years ago,
leaving an ample provision for his wife—the will was con-
tested in the Ecclesiastical Court, on the ground that the
testator was insane when he made it. After a contest of
several years, that court decided that the man was insane
at. the time of making the will, but the estate had then
got into the Court of Chancery, and they directed an issue
to bo tried by a jury as to the sanity, who, six years after
the same question had been decided by tie Ecclesiastical
Court, pronounced in conformity with that decision. But
in the meanwhile the estate had been all swallowed up in
costs incurred in the three courts, and the estate not being
sufficient, the poor widow was incarcerated in a prison.
(Hear, hear.) This showed the working of the system.
Now, with regard to the remedy he would suggest. In the
first place, they had the County Courts, which, on the
whole, had exercised a very satisfactory jurisdiction, and
he saw no reason why they should not entrust to those
courts that portion, at least, of the jurisdiction of the
Ecclesiastical Courts. He had drawn up a bill, in which
he proposed to give to the County Courts jurisdiction in all
cases of probate in the ordinary form ; and he suggested
that the probate should be granted in the county court of
the place where the testator had died, and that one
probate should do for the whole kingdom. (Hear, hear,
hear.) He proposed further to give to these courts
jurisdiction in all cases, of whatever amount, with the
consent of the parties, and in cases of small amount, say
300/, without such consent. In cases of a large amount,
when the parties did not consent to avail themselves of the
county courts, jurisdiction should be given to some higher
court—he thought one of the courts of common law would
be preferable, as that would be the fittest for deciding on
questions of fact—as whether the party was insane—
whether there was any fraud—whether the will was pro-
perly executed, and others of a similar nature. The courts
of common law had also this advantage, that they exercised
a local jurisdiction at the circuits, which the Chancery
courts did not. Again, he believed the Court of Chancery
had already its hands full, and if more business were put
upon them an additional number of judges would be needed;
whereas there was, he understood, already a sufficient
amount of judicial force in the common law courts to dis-
pose of the business which he proposed to transfer to them.
It would be desirable for the j udge of the county court to
have a complete jurisdiction in the matters he proposed to
refer to them, both in regard to law and equity, where the
-amount was under the limit, because if in such cases the
,rfeomratihneed,
wantthe
swallowedCo uurpt o f
At Chanceryp
rese
estate necessityw e would d go
oe
nthe
taken out in small cases at all. One of the great de-
of some such ready jurisdiction probate was often not

siderata in reference to testamentary law was a proper
and efficient system of registration of wills. He
proposed that there should be a local registrar

appointed by the judge of the County Court, to
whom the will should be taken in the first instance, and
that after probate it should be transmitted to the Registrar-
General in London, who shall keep all wills in his custody
in fire-proof places, and prepare an index for ready refer-
ence. There was already, he believed, the nucleus of such
a system of local registration in the registration above 101.
Then with regard to divorces. At present the ecclesiasti-
cal courts had power to grant divorces e mensa et thoro,
but not e vineuk matrimonio. When the legislature recog-
nised the right of dissenters to be married out of the church,