The Sun.
London, England, 1853-04-06 00:00:00

LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, APRIL 6, 1853.

frHE QUARTERLY REVIEW,
No. CLXXXIV., is Published this day.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

CONTENTS:-

I. Apsley House.
11. Scrope's History of Castle Combe.
111. Human Hair.
IV. The Old Countess of Desmond.,
V. Hungarian Camptegns—Kossuth and Glorgey.
VI. Buckingham Papers.
VII. Search for Franklin.
VIII. The Two Systems at Pentonville.
IX. Maurel on the Duke of Wellington.

HOUSE OF COMMONS—(YESTERDAY.)
THE EXCHEQUER.
In reply to Mr. DisRAELI,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
should lay the resolution which he intended to move on
Friday before the house the day before.
WINDSOR AND MALDON ELECTIONS..
The evidence taken before these election committees
was ordered to be printed.
COPPER COINAGE.
In reply to a question,
The CHANCELLOR of the -EXCHEQUER said
there was no intention to make any change in our copper
coinage, but the subject of a decimal coinage was now
under consideration, 'A select committee would, no
doubt,:be appointed to inquire into the whole subject.
ELECTION COMMITTEES.
In reply to Mr. PHINN,
Lord J. RUSSELL said, considering that the rights
of the boroughs whose writs were suspended were in-
volved in the commissions about to be appointed, the
inquiry must take place as soon as possible after the
House of Lords agreed to the commission.
MISCELLANEOUS ESTIMATES.
In reply to Mr. W. WILLIAMS,
Mr. WILSON stated that those estimates which
would be taken on Friday had already been laid before
the house.

John Murray, Albemarle-street.

PATRON —H.R.H. PRINCE ALBERT.
ROYAL POLYTECHNIC INSTITUTION.
—Mrs. Beecher Stowe's Popular Work on Slavery Illus.
trated in an Optical Exhibition, with Vocal and Instrumental Music
and New Dissolving Scenery, Morning and Evening. Lectures :
By J. H. Pepper, Esq.—Half-hours with the Ancient and Modern
Chemists ; by Dr. Bachhoffner, on some of the Mechanical Proper-
ties of Aeriform Bodies ; by Mr. Crispe, on Ericcson's Caloric
Engine.

Admission, Is.; Schools, and Children under Ten years of age,

Half-price

LAITRENT'S CASINO, ARGYLL ROOMS._
Lessee, CHARLES E. LAURENT, Onslow-house, Fulham-
road. Open Every Evening. The Orchestra will perform, during
the week, " The Thistle," " Shamrock," " Rose," and "Amina"
Waltzes, the "Napoleon" Galep, "Le Cirque • "Quadrille ; "La
Valerie," "Juno," and "Steeplechase" Polkas.— Admission, Is.
Doors open at Half-past Eight ; to commence at Nine o'clock, and
terminate at Half-past Eleven.

FLOGGING AND DESERTIONS IN THE NAVY.

Mr. Williams, the member for Lambeth, gave notice
on Monday night in the House of Commons of his in-
tention to put some questions to the First Lord of the
Admiralty relative to the flogging of Stapleton, the
boatswain's mate of the Vulture, and the desertions of
men from the Royal navy, said. to be in consequence of
this disgraceful.and barbarous punishment inflicted- on
the boatswain's mate.

As the strictures on the severe sentence on the boat-
swain's mate, and the statements as to the desertions,
which have attracted so much attention, originated in
the Morning Herald, we deem. it necessary to make a
few remarks on the subject, previously to any explana-
tion which may be offered by, the First Lord of the
Admiralty.
We trust that Sir James Graham will meet the ques-
tions of the hon. member for Lambeth candidly and
fairly, without any equivocation, 'evasion, or mental re-
servation. The right hon. baronet may attempt—we
hope he will not do so—to defend the sentence of the
infliction of corporal punishment on a petty officer, who
had served a great many years with credit and distino-
tion, on the ground that his offence was one most sub-
versive of discipline on the part of an officer to whom
was confided the great responsibility of maintaining
order, and of punishing disorder, and that it was impe-
rative on the Admiralty to punish corporally the boats-
wain's mate for the sake of example. But we trust Sir
James will be reminded of the fact, that the man was not
habitually a drunkard, but that having committed one
offence by becoming intoxicated, and the officer of the
watch having been made acquai,nted with that circum-
stance, as he must have been when he ordered him in
charge of the sentry for contempt, the officer of the watch
was answerable for the subsequent grave offence ofstriking
the:sentry, inasmuch as he neglected to comply with the na-
val instructions, and did not imm.ed lately place the drunken
man in irons ; had he done so, there is no doubt that
there would have been no corirt -martial, a good man's
skin would have been saved the. -torture of the lash, and
the whole body of petty office= of the navy—the best
and finest men in the whole w orld—would not have
been disgusted and shamed by ache disgrace inflicted upon
one of their class. Again, Sir Ja mes must be reminded
that it would surely have been punishment enough to
have degraded the man by d ismting him, and by de-
priving him of his claims for a pension, for the commis-
sion of an offence so grave as that with which he was
charged ; and the Admiralty nrust be impressed with the
fact that the public look upon floc ging a free-born, intel-
ligent Englishman in a differ( ;TA, light altogether from
oßt hfra in
lashes
i tt
British
which
ppublic
it is v
ith a regardca iet.owed the,
n in
2.ytfla
tatr n s ro
onnoaftvha lordships.
ael
certainexpexposed
se dn u maTkbheeer
d
back of a British subject—a le llow-citizen—perhaps
voter for a member of Parham( eat, or the father, son' or
brother of a voter, as one of tht most beastly, most dis-
gusting, most disgraceful pur itshments, for which no
after compensation in any sha ,pe can atone. The free-
man who has been flogged like a dog is a degraded.
pitiable outcast of society, and. in the estimation of men
of right feeling, ruin, starvatio a, nay, death, is preferable
to the debasing exposure of a anan's naked skin, to be
cut through and stripped off'. his back by whip-cord.
But we believe that there are noble, high-minded, inde-
pendent men in the House cif Commons, possessed of
sufficient moral courage and hum anity to tell the Admi-
ralty that British sailors—hon est, free, open-hearted,
hard-working Englishmen, who have borne a "very
good" character for 17 years— -sh all not be treated worse
than American sailors—shall be reduced to the level
of the poor black slaves of Cu ba, Brazils, and America,
and flogged within an inch of idu.lir lives—shall dare the
British Admiralty, indeed, to ii act any such punish-
ment in future on an honest Eaig:lishman. So much for
the flogging.
Now for the desertions. Sir J ames Graham may, and
perhaps will, point to the Police Gazette, and show, that
instead of 100 seamen having de sorted last week from
our men of war, the Hue and. (fry contains official de-
scriptions of only some ten or -t..velve ; but the facts, if
they are worth procuring, may be got at by Sir James
Graham informing thontlouse of f Commons how many
men were reported as " absen.t Iffithout leave," at Devon-
port,
on Tuesday last, the 29th of March, 1853.
It is only fair to state that our Devonport correspon-
dent, dating from that port y •ef ;terday, says—" A great
many of those reported abser it have returned ; but still
the repeated desertions of pet ty officers, since Stapleton,
the boatswain's mate, was flc gged, have been unprece-
dented ; and now there is not ; a• ship in Plymouth Sound
that has her full complemen .t of petty officers and sea-
men." And, moreover, as a proof of the feeling of the
petty officers against the ser vim on account of Staple-
' ton's punishment, we may stalzo that no less than 40
men have not returned to the b est and most comfortable
ship in the navy, the Prin, De Regent, although their
term of leave has expired some weeks since, and the
ship is now in Plymouth F._ lou.nd still short of hands.
It is useless to disguise the i Pac is ; the men are running
from the service in all dir vc-tions, else why keep an
armed steamer and armed 1. ion t's crew at Gravesend to
board the merchant ships iii order to search for and to
apprehend deserters ? And run away they will, at all
risks, and refuse all offers to. enter her Majesty's ships,
where they are liable, after good-conduct service for 17
years, to be flogged like .Sic,a,pleton, the boatswain's
mate.—Morning Herald.

THE LOSS OP THE INT:I7E OF SUTHERLAND

STEA 2 IER.

. ABERDEEN, MONDAY.

It now appears that the 1 Y reels° number of lives lost
in consequence of the wrecl k of this steamer is sixteen,
the total number on board :having been 54 or 55. The
following is a list of the
DROWNED—Edward How ling, master; Miss Bremner,
belonging to Aberdeen ; M isi3 Lawrence, ditto ; George
Bruce, the carpenter ; a fen La le servant fC. S. Jervoise,
name unknown ; Henry Siv ie r, coachman to Mr. Jar-
voise ; Margaret Paul, stew al cdess ; Geo. Nelson, a sea-
man on board ; a seaman fr om London, a passenger,
name unknown, but believed to be Johnson or Johnston;
Mr. Burness (not Burnett),, :a passenger ; Peter Ligert-
wood, second mate ; John.. I 'yfe, chief engineer, Total
loss from steamer, 12. 1 tobertson, Jas. M'lntosh,
Christie, Reid, seamen los rt from coblo.
Up to this time 12 of .th e bodies have been found,
being the whole except t hol3e of the second mate, en-
gineer, and Christie and Reid, the seamen. Captain
Howling, Bruce the car panter, Ligertwood, Fyfe the
engineer, Nelson, and SiN rier leave widows and families
—those of the two last b ei2ng resident in London. The
case of Miss Bremner is peculiarly affecting one. She
was just about to be marri 4 and was engulphed under the
very eyes of the young g entleman to whom she was en-
gaged. The engineer p rished in the attempt to save
the stewardess.
Eighteen were saved b y the rope between the pier and
the vessel, all of them, icludiag five of Mr. Jervoise's
servants, owing their pre lervation to the exertions of the

steward.
The value of the cargo ap pears now to be from 8,0001.
to 10,0001., 'and that of the vessel about 18,000/. She
was built in 1847, and co ot. about 28,0001. The vessel
was insured for 12,0001., bi it the cargo was not insured,
the parties to whom it w as consigned being the sufferers.
It consisted of spring ha he rdashery goods, periodicals,
&c.
All that now remains off the vessel is the engines and
paddle-boxes, with a small. part of the ship in the vici-
nity ; the engines probably will be recovered. A consi-
derable part of the cargo I) as been cast ashore.

HULL ELECTION.
Mr. LABOUCHERE then rose to move an ad-
dress to her Majesty; for a commission of inquiry
into the borough of Hull. The house would
remember that the member returned for Hull
had been -.m1510840 on the grow "of' bribery and
treating,
treating, and since it came out in eitiTence that the cor-
ruption complained of had long prevailed in the borough,
the committee felt that there was no alternative but to
recommend the house to adopt a motion like this.
It was painful to him to have to make such a
motion as this in reference to so important a
place as Hull, one of the greatest shipping ports
of the country ; but neither the extent of its population
nor the position which it held in public estimate ought
to shield it from a proceeding of this nature, if the merits
of the case called for it. It appeared, then, that it had
been a practice for some years past to pay the free-
men of Hull for their votes at the rate of
30s. a-head. Several. of the poor voters were also
bribed in smaller sums, and one of the witnesses exam-
ined before the committee stated that these latter were
far more troublesome to the candidate than the freemen,
because they did not know their price. (A laugh.) In
addition to this, several voters were bribed with very
large sums, while it was clear that at most of the contested
elections a system of extensive treating always took place.
He therefore thought it was highly desirous that the
whole case should be inquired into by a commission on
the spot, and hence he had no hesitation in moving the
resolution of which he had given notice.
Mr. WALPOLE said he observed by the report of
the committee that the bribery appeared to have been
both extensive and systematic, and he could, therefore,
oo
uffge
hr
tn ot
oopposition
et o
thet h e
naoldirneasts but
i,
nof htehteheoouing h t
commission
isshey
i on
until a future day.
After a few words from Mr. BANKES, the motion was
agreed to.
NORWICH ELECTION.

Mr. T. DUNCOMBE said he had given notice of his
intention to call the attention of the house to the report
of the select committee appointed to inquire into the
withdrawal of the Norwich election petitions, and
to move that so much of the sessional order of
the 11th day of November last as requires that
all persons who will question the return of any mem-
ber, do question the same within fourteen days
then =text, be read ; and that the said order, so far
as the same relates to the last return of Members to
serve in Parliament for the city of Norwich, be sus-
pended ; it appearing to this house that the two peti-
tions of John Phillips, John Abel, Henry Hindes,
Peter Thomas Scott, and William Mackley, electors of
otet hoou en:s
electionsesd raul
vi
complaining
naiinwun city,tgaths this
iprfs
authority,
aitesypns:rehnenaasntbreedgandunet
discharged,
,Pno electionhat abandoned
dlie
abo2mer2gedwgan
neitdaywithdrawn,
dlro ofeerr
leave
tuvNwi
ler
noen
oosefamimpdb members
whereupontl
byaoesnr
sot ,ef
Norwich, were on the 14th day of February last, with-
the order referring the same to the general committee of
the motion until this day week, when the membersosp of
the house would be more conversant with the evidence
bearing upon the subject.
RAILWAY ACCIDENTS.
Mr. H. BROWN said he had to propose a resolution,
at the suggestion of a large number of persons who had
asked him to be their instrument, in calling the attention
of the house to a subject of Which tte" ad.niitted the
difficulty. He had some reason to expect that his motion
would be met with two exceptions—first, that it was
idle ; and, secondly, that it was unnecessary. He would
be told that a select committee was at that moment sit-
ting up stairs who would snake such a report as would
satisfy the house on the subject. If ho thought the
carrying of the motion would be offensive to the railway
interest er embarrassing to the Government, he should be
the last person to seek to bring it forward. But he sub-
mitted his motion was of such a character that, if the com-
mittee should make a report that it was necessary to have
a tribunal to insist on the regulation of railways, it would
only tend to strengthen the hands of the Government. The
right honourable gentleman, the President of the Board of
Trade, had done him the honour to say that there was
nothing in the terms of his resolution in the slightest de-
gree objectionable. If that were so, he would ask the
right honourable gentleman to adopt the resolution. If
there was anything more marked than another going on
in the committee up stairs, it was that they were all
agreed on the necessity of what he (Mr. Brown) now
asked the house to do. The house would recollect that
when the late President of the Board of Trade moved
for that committee, he had only in view an inquiry into
the general amalgamation of railways, and that another
hon. member followed up the motion of the right hon.
gentleman by a proposition for extending the scope of
inquiry of the committee. But what was the result ?
The committee was now sitting, and the evidence given
before them was just a repetition of statements With
which the house was already familiar. He would refer
the house to the evidence of a great authority in matters
connected with railways, Mr. Seymour Clark. That
gentleman stated that, in his opinion, the result of the
proposed amalgamations and arrangements would be that,
without some superintending authority, the public would
be deprived of those advantages which they now possessed.
Capt. Huish, the superintendent of the London and North-
Western Railway, in reply to a question put to him, to the
effect of whether all just complaints made by the public
against the companies might not become a subject of arbi-
tration, said that it would• require careful consideration,
and the assistance of men who were conversant with the
details of the working of railways, who would give judg-
ments which would be acceptable to the companies. Each
of the five witnesses already examined had stated, in the
most marked manner, that the supervision of the railways,
to be effective, must be placed in some central power.
He would be the last person to advocate any interference
in the fiscal arrangements connected with railways, but
he contended that, until they made some better arrange-
ments, until they had some authority to which the public
could appeal, or some power to enforce such regulations as
might be deemed necessary for the public safety, they
would have the columns of their daily papers constantly
filled with accounts of fatal accidents on railways. The
comparatively small number of accidents which occurred on
the Scotch railways was attributed by some persons to the
low rate of velocity ; he considered, however, that it was
owing far more to the wholesome state of the criminal law
in that country. [At this part of the hon. member's re-
marks Mr. Labouchere appeared at the bar, and stated that
the House of Lords requested a conference on pie subject
of the commission of inquiry into the borough of Hull.
Several hon. members named by tho Speaker proceeded to
the Lords, and after short absence returned and reported
the result of the conference.] The hon. member then pro-
ceeded to state that under the Scotch law there was a pub-
lic prosecutor, by whose exertions justice was secured to
the peasant as well as to the peer. This state of things
were very different from that of the English law on this
subject. Under the 9th and 10th Victoria (Lord Camp-
bell's Act) a right of civil action was given for damages,
which unfortunately, however, practically valued the use-
ful man at pence and the ornamental at thousands Ho
remembered that when this bill was under discussion a
noble lord in the other house asked whether, supposing
the Lord Chancellor on the woolsack was killed, any jury
would dare to estimate his value. The rejoinder of the
Lord Chancellor was, that he could conceive a much more
difficult case, which was that of estimating the damages of
a noble lord in expectation of a seat on the woolitack. (A
laugh.) At a recent accident on a branch- of the Midland
Railway, in which a passenger carriage drawn by a horse
from disregard
tshreegraefroef,
was run into by an engine, a poor man received 3/. as com-
pensation for the death of his wife, while a lady travel-
ling in the same carriage obtained as compensation for
was a public prosecutor, who should take care of the damage done to her dress.
in-
terests of the poor and working classes who might suffer
from accidents on railways. The larger proportion of
whichac-
carrideanntgsementus and from the inefficiency of
the staff of servants. If this case could be made out, it
was clearly the duty of this house to become the conser-
vators of the public safety. Former Governments had
ra:h.waayt:',Ei,arsosew
s aonceduil;geudloatnio
thought it right to introduce measures providing for the
auditing of railway accounts, and it surely could not be
contended that while Parliament ought to interfere in the
fiscal arrangements of railways, it should not attempt to do
anything to secure the sathem. (Hear.) Whepever safety of
railway the public
was blictravelling
to b e
the Board of Trade always sent down a surveyor to report
feope unpeodn,
upon the state of the railway and the works previous to
the public opening of the line. It was a requirement for
opened •
the public safety that no line should be till a satis-
factory report of its condition was made by the inspector.
As soon, however, as this report was made, the authority
of the Board of Trade ceased, and however much the line
dents might occur, the Board of Trade was powerless, and
could only send down an inspector to report upon the cause
might hereafter become disordered, and whatever a
of the accident. Upon looking over many of the reports
made to the commissioners by the inspectors, he could not
fail to be struck with the necessity which existed for yes-
ingtions calculated to prevent the
power of enforcing regulations
Simmons,his report
n immons, in
occurrence of accidents. Captain in the Board of Trade, or some other central body, the
upon the Ulster Railway, stated that there were no signals
upon a portion of the line, and that
the company never
Ase4l any, and he recommended that the company should be
abandon a method of working their wkich was evi-
dently attended with so much danger. In another of that
requested—not "compelled"—to adopt proper signals, and

gentleman's reports, reference was also made to the use
upon one of the railways of coal-trucks of an improper and
dangerous character, but the Board of Trade had no
power to compel the use of a better description of traffic
waggons and trucks. Upon the London and North-Western
Railway the great majority of the accidents had arisen
from the heavy goods trains, and it was most important
that some supervision should be exercised over the line in
that respect. In the case of an accident on the Midland
Railway, Captain Laffan reported that it had occurred in
consequence of the engineer not sounding his whistle,
which had been out of order for three days. This accident
was therefore owing to the laxity of supervision and want
of strict enforcement of the rules of the company, and
showed the necessity for a great change in this respect.
From the reports of the commissioners it appeared that
twenty-three out of forty-one cases of accidents had arisen
from inattention to the regulations and the carelessness of
servants of the company. Accidents of this nature were
divided into two classes—occasional, including those
caused by inexperience ; and habitual, or those occasioned
by general inattention on the part of the servants of the
company, and, as a natural consequence, exhibiting a great
laxity of discipline. In a report upon the Eastern Coun-
ties Railway, it was stated that a dangerous practice pre-
vailed of sending off swift special trains, at a moment's
notice, depending for their safety upon the electric tele-
graph, which at many of the stations was not at work,
and it was even stated that at one of the principal stations
the station-master had neglected his duty to the maid-
servant. Captain Wynn, reporting on the Midland
Railway, stated that three accidents had occurred in the
course of a month from the want of proper supervision
over the servants of the company. Captain Huish had
spoken in his report of the danger of using carriages of
different sizes and build, and the " buffers" of which did
not coincide, in the same train. He also recommended
that the footboards of the carriages of a train should be
extended, in order to afford the means of communication
with all the carriages of a train. Such a plan, however,
could not be carried out, unless all the companies con-
nected with the " clearing house" agreed to it. These
were instances in which the Board of Trade, might exer-
cise a very salutary power in compelling uniformity, and
thus increasing the safety of the travelling community.
As the case stood at present, the report of the inspectors
merely had the effect of removing the responsibility from
the shoulders of the engineers connected with the line,
without placing it upon other parties. (Hear, hear.) The
hon. member then referred to the report of Captain Wynne
on a fire which had occurred in one of the trains on the
London and North-Western Railway, upon which occa-
sion had it not been for the exertions of Mr. Crampton,
who at great personal risk had passed from one carriage
to another, the results might have been most distressing
in their character. Had the footboards of the carriages
been extended in the mode suggested there would have
been no difficulty or risk in making the required commu-
nication with the guard of the train. Captain Huish, in
answer to the recommendation in this report, that the
footboards should be extended, stated with regard to the
London and North-Western Company, that they were
willing to consider it ; but he added that such a plan
could not observed unless it was generally adopfed, as the
carriages in nearly always the property of different com-
panies. This was a case in which he (Mr.. Brown) con-
ceived that interference might readily be made effective.
He need hardly remind the house that two lamentable ac-
cidents had occurred within the last few weeks, which
showed the inutility of the present system of Government
inspection. In the first case there was a most distres-
sing loss of life ; and he thought the verdict of the
coroner's jury would read her Majesty's Government a
lesson which ought to show them that if their inspec-
tion was to be good for anything it ought to be
effective for the safety of the travelling public. This
accident occurred on the lines between Manchester and
Bolton, and this was the verdict of the jury :—" We find
that the deceased, Thomas Creston, Richard Simmons, and
George Barbour, were killed, on the 4th day of March
inst., by the engine No. 13 running off the rails, and up-
setting, near the Dixonfold station, on the Manchester and
Bolton Railway, caused by the excessive speed at which it
was driven by the deceased Thomas Croston, against whom
we return a verdict of manslaughter. And we state that,
although the rules of the company furnished to the guards
and drivers limit the speed of express trains to thirty miles
an hour, the train has usually far exceeded that speed; and
we think this cannot have so constantly occurred without
the knowledge and approbation of the directors of the com-
pany. We find also that the engine No. 13, from having
only four wheels, and the length of time it has been in use,
was not a proper engine to attach to a train running at
thirty miles an hour, even on a railway in good and effi-
cient order. That the permanent way of this railway, as
regards sleepers, chairs, and rails, in material and con-
struction, is generally very defective, and by 'no means
safe; that the speed at which the points at the branch
lines are passed is highly dangerous ; that the quick suc-
cession of trains on the line from Manchester to Clifton
Junction with the East Lancashire Company is also very
dangerous ; that the general arrangements of the company
as to the maintenance of way and management of trains
do not conduce to the safety of the public ; and we cannot
too strongly condemn the management of the Lancashire
and Yorkshire Railway Company on that portion of their
line known as the Bolton and Preston district. We are
also of opinion that the speed at which express trains travel
on all railways is so great that a stringent investigation
should be instituted by the Board of Trade as to the con-
struction and present condition of the permanent way, en-
gines, and carriages, as well as working arrangements ; and
we fear it will be found that the Lancashire and Yorkshire
Railway is not the only one on which such a system of
economy prevails as seriously to endanger the safety of the
public." In the other case the jury returned the following
verdict :—" The verdict of the jury is, that William Ste-

phenson came to his death by the engine No. 104, running and hostility on the part of companies, take from officers
off the lino of rails and falling over the embankment at the their responsibility, and might result disastrously for the
west-end of Willington viaduct, on the Newcastle and safety of the public." Then, I say, give us time to know
Tynemouth Railway, on the 2d of March, 1853. They whether what we aro called upon to recommend will
also find, from the evidence brought before them, that the " result disastrously for the safety to the public," before we
lino was not in a good and safe state, and that gross neg- express any opinion. I have no objection to assume to the
ligence in the management has been manifested in allowing Government any responsibility which will tend to promote
ballast taken from tho north lino of Willington-bridge, the public safety. I desire to say clearly and distinctly that
while under repair, to be laid upon the south line, so as to we de not ask for power, nor are wo anxious for responsi-
render it dangerous. They are of opinion that a strange bility ; yet, if by casting responsibility upon us you can
engine ought not to have been sent down the line without secure the safety of the public, it is your duty to cast it
.some caution given as to the repairs going on at Willing- upon us, and it is our duty to undertake it. Only, do it
ton-bridge. They are also of opinion that some legislative well advised ; and do not come to a resolution to that
measure should be passed, making it compulsory on rail- effect until you have read the evidence. (Hear, hear.)
way companies not to remove a single vestige of destruction The honourable gentleman who has brought forward this
of the line, carriages, &c., but that eVerything remain in- subject does not impute that the very limited powers of
tact until inspected by competent persons." He would the Board of Trade have been neglected or improperly ex-
put it to the house whether these were not lamentable ercised ; and I have heard him do justice to that able
cases, and whether the circumstances did not fully justify public servant, Captain Simmons, to whose assiduity I can
the findings of the juries. But what was the use of the myself bear testimony; but he complains of the state of
present system of inspection, if, as was here shown, the the law. Well, as I have said, the House of Commons
poor people who had lost their lives perished from a want have appointed a committee which will into and report
of care and an absence of due arrangement ? (Hear, hear.) upon that subject. We have not been negligent in our
Was it' right that the Government should see these things duty with regard to that inquiry ; but allow it to come to
occur day after day and not interpose? Was it right a termination. Not only the committee but the Govern-
they should thus see the safety of the public disregarded, mont are giving their attention to this subject. I under-
and not propose measures calculated to procure secu- stood the honourable gentleman to say that in bringing
rity and create confidence ? Certainly not. They forward this motion he was giving us the benefit of his ex-
seemed to suppose that those accidents were wearing perience ; but the time for making- a practical motion will
themselves out ; but the public were fully roused to the be when the committee have made their report. I have
necessity of some active interposition, and they would not no right, however, to complain of the motion ; but the
be satisfied until it was provided. Now, what was it that question now arises, how will the house deal with it ? The
he asked the Government to do ? Why, nothing more honourable gentleman truly said that when he showed it
than that they should provide for the public travelling to me I could take no objection to it. That is so. Ido
along railways the same safeguards as they required in not. think that any more true proposition can be stated
steamboats, emigrant ships, and factories. (Hear.) Pass- than "that is the duty of a good Government to propose
ing from this immediate subject, he must say that the pro- to this house all such measures as may appear necessary
ceedings of some railway companies certainly required the or the public safety." I shall not dispute that. Neither
exercise of some control. The South-Eastern Company is it in my power to dispute " that the great increase in
had provided carriages of such a description that they were the number of accidents which have of late occurred on
actually obliged to bar up the windows in order to prevent railways, demands the especial attention of this house,"
the passengers from putting out their heads lest they should or that "it is the duty of her Majesty's Government to
come into collision with the walls of the bridges. They propose more effectual measures than now exist for secu-
were under the necessity of providing this precaution in ring the safety of the public while travelling on railways."
order to guard against accidents from the use of those car- That is certainly to do what we are doing, namely, most
riages and the narrowness of the bridges; for it happened carefully to assist in the examination of these matters, and
that a passenger, who had put his head out of the window, to ascertain the state of the law as it exists in different
was killed upon the spot. In such a case as that, why, he parts of the kingdom, in order that we may obtain one
asked, was not the Scotch law made to apply, by which the which will be effectual. It only remains, then, to consider
directors would- be criminally responsible ? If the Scotch what is to be done with the motion. Is it respectful in
law had applied there would have been far more care taken the house towards itself, or calculated to create confidence
to secure the safety of the public. He held, further, that in the public, to pass a resolution which will stand upon
there ought to be a tribunal to which the public might our proceedings as a mere abstract resolution without any
forthwith appeal—where the accommodation was not suit- practical consequence. (Hear, hear.) I would advise the
able, where the traffic arrangements were incomplete, and honourable gentleman to take the course I have just inti-
where hostilities existed between rival companies detri- mated, because it is not usual to put on the books motions
mental to the public service. At present we had nothing of an abstract nature loading to no practical consequences.
of the sort. In bringing this subject under the notice of If he is content to adopt that course, then it will not he
the house, he had no party or private purposes to serve. necessary for me to make any motion upon the subject ;
He was moved solely by a desire to discharge his public but if he does not, it will be my duty, with a view merely
duties. (Hear.) If, he would add, the circumstances ho to keeping the proceedings of the house in conformity with
had detailed pointed out the fact that there was a great the usual practice, to move the previous question. (Hear,
disregard for the public safety on the part of the railway hear.)
companies themselves, then the house, in his judgment, Mr. JAS. M`GREGOR said he could not allowsome of the
was bound to affirm the resolution he should move ; but if observations of the hon. member for Tewkesbury to pass
they thought these things were incidental to railway tra- unanswered. The honourable gentleman had taken the
yelling, and beyond all remedy, then the resolution would ground that the directors of railways had not per-
fall to the ground. But he was sure the house would ar- formed their duty to the public by efficiently carrying out
rive at the conclusion that they were not beyond remedy, the administration placed in their hands. In answer to
and that the railways of this country must be put under that, he would call attention to the precautions now used
such a system of inspection as would provide for the public daily over more than 7,000 miles of railway, which a few
safety. The select committee now sitting, he feared, would years ago were perfectly unknown. So far as human in-
lead to no practical result, and therefore he hoped the house genuity could secure the safety and convenience of the
would give the Board of Trade effectual powers. If, as he public, the whole body of men engaged in conducting the
expected, nothing should result from the committee, and railway traffic of the country, were devoting their atten-
no proposition should be made on the part of her Majesty's tion to the subject. Fog signals, distant signals, and the
Government, he should, at a future time, think it his duty electric telegraph, all of which had only lately been
to propose some effectual remedy for the evils he had en- brought into use, were a proof of the assertion ; and he
deavoured to point out. In the meantime he begged to asserted without fear of contradiction that such a number
move—" That it is the duty of a good Government to pro- of persons as now travelled upon railways were never
pose to this house all such measures as may appear neces- massed before with comparatively so fesvacci
(Mr. M`Gro-
dents.
sary for the public safety. That the groat increase in the Mr. HUME gave
the honourable gentleman
number of accidents which have of late occurred on rails gor) credit for having stated that which he believed to be
ways demands the especial attention of this house ; and the case ; but he deemed it of importance that the whole
that it is the duty of her Majesty's Government to propose subject of railway management should be brought under
more effectual measures than now exist for securing the the consideration bothofthe Government and of the house.
Undue powers had been given to certain persons, and it
safety of the public while travelling on railways."
Mr. FRENCH seconded the motion. His konourable was the duty of the house to see that those powers
friend had shown most conclusively that there was no ap- were
made useful for the benefit of the public. But
peal against the maladministration of railways except to after t hedeclaration of the right honourable gentleman the
the public through the press. He had also shown the evils President of the Board of Trade, than which nothing could
which arose from the want of a tribunal of reference such be more satisfactory, he recommended his honourable
as was established upon the Continent and in America. friend the
.inegemabsehrefohar Td,owthkeesrbiguhrtyotof
briewithgdinrag it on
thewt
amo-
Withouta some such tribunal it was hopeless to expect any tion,reretsiemrsee. ,
improvement in the railway system calculated to secure the
safety of the public. In his opinion the resolution was per- Mr. WADDINGTON was convinced that on this sub-
fectly unobjectionable, and his hon. friend had applied to ject the right hon. gentleman the President of the Board of
oosne.dmtoember, in in-
the proper quarter, for it was to the Government that all the Trade, in his position as chairman of the railway coni
evils of the present system ,of railway travelling fairly and mittee, would do all in his power to arrive at a
lemitimately belonged. At the same time the railways had fair conclusion. (Hear, hear.)were
iThudiesph
to'complain of the proceedings of Parliament itself. They sroducing the motion, had stated that the railwpa'ryeviindtzraenbadyt
had been called upon to pay a sum of 11,000,000 for Par- or the directors of railways
liamentarY expenses in England alone—a sum sufficient to every possible moans for the safety of the public, and he
ntuce the hon. gentleman
have executed 1,100 miles of railway. They had also been could not allow-that statement to be made without giving
subjected in some localities to excessive demands from it a most unqualified denial.
a very different state of
landed proprietors. They had paid sums varying from took a part inarriasielilaaynudlahneage_eez
assure the hon gentleman
5,0001. to 14,000/. per mile. Under such circumstances it things had
was not possible they could maintain a sufficient staff and and the house from thirteen or fourteen years experience,
pay a remuneration to their proprietors. But, after put- that he did not know an instance in which the Board of
ting them to these vast expenses, Parliament had actually Trade had made suggestions with reference to the public
ssaufgegteys,tiiioi which the directors had not either carried those
granted in many cases competing lines. He repeated then
to
can out, or shownioti Boardhrgeeefnert
leenmeea
gentleman
that ttanh ito was impossible
that both Parliament and Government were to blame for
the existing system. The evil of it was apparent some
years ago, and a committee was appointed, over which hEaada been
y meanideobuyt.theWh
Lord Abernethy presided, to whom all projected railways aaliccuaiideonnt on the
were to be referred. No tribunal ever arrived at more exception was taken to that report by the chief officers of
tern Counties Railway, andthe report upon it, although
just conclusions than this committee, or at conclusions
the railway, it had the effect of calling the attention of
more calculated to develop the interests of the county every member of the board to the consequence of negligence
they had been attended to ; but the late Sir Robert r'eletl
-Linde' these byyeaarsraagilow,
anyotshervainguatpp; raonadehifraogmtothaaat
ateeimide
towhadneaoreleyertrwedo
threw over its reports, and nothing was done.
circumstances he had no hesitation in saying that time,
whatever on that line. Railway directors
were sincerely desirous of

//

,-'--..

insuring perfect immu • y, if it were possible, from 'these
casualties, and when er an accident did occur, whether on
their own line or the lines of other companies, for the
management of which they were not responsible, they felt
the same deep anxiety and regret. . (Hear, hear.) He
hould leave the matter to the committee over which the
ht hon. gentleman (Mr. Cardwell) presided, convinced
at on a careful review of all the circumstances they would
resent a report which would be beneficial to the railway
interest, and, at the same time, conducive to the greater
safety of the public.
Mr. LAING rose for the purpose of correcting, as far as
he could, an impression which might otherwise get abroad
from the remarks of the hon. mover of the resolution, that
on the part of the railway interest, and in the minds of
railway directors, there was any disinclination to submit
%et° a measure of Government control, however stringent,
which could be proved to them practically to conduce to
public safety. However much the railway interest might
justly complain of Parliament having put them to unnecs-
sary expense, when the public safety was involved every
other consideration must give way, and if any measure
were introduced with that view, there would not only be
no factious opposition from the railway interest, but rail-
way direciors would be the foremost to assist in carrying
it into effect. (Hear, hear.) Independent of all considera-
tions of humanity, to which he hoped even railway direc-
tors were not altogether lost, the pecuniary responsibility
made it apparent to common-sense that the directore were
anxious to do everything in their power to assist the Go-
vernment-in any measure which should be really conducive
to the. public safety. But the question involved in this
resolution, and more especially involved in the observations
&the honourable mover of it, was the extent and nature of
43vernment interference. He would not refer to the report
of the American committee, which contained vary sound ,
views on this subject; but the question of Government in-
terference had already been investigated by a committee' '
of this house. Soon after the railway department of the
Board of Trade was first constituted, there were loud de-
mands for the most stringent Government control, and a
committee, presided over by the right hon. gentleman the
member for Taunton, at that time President of the Board
•f Trade, was appointed, and the result was a complete
explosion of the notion that any amount of interference on
the part of the Government would conduce to the public
safety. It was obvious that if the Government assumed
the practical control of the working of railways, all respon-
sibility with those who had charge of their management
disappeared. Government interference might be invoked
for increasing public sofety ; but it must resolve itself into
three measures--either the Government must assume a
superintendence of minute details, whibh, he was satisfied,
would be attended with the worst pOrsible consequences ;
or give such additional security to fliilway property that
the companies would be in a positibn to incur large ex-
penses in making experiments, so as to obtain the means
of insuring the greatest possible security ; or, if the present
state of the law was not efficient, make it efficient, to
bring home the responsibility to the proper parties. (Hear,
hear.) He had read, with great pleasure and satisfaction,
the recent judgment of Lord-Justice Clerk, and he
believed that was the common sense view of the subject.
He should be exceedingly happy if those principles were
the general law of the land, so that every one in all grades
of railway management might feel that, in the event of
negligence, they would be made responsible should any
accident ;occur. (Hear.) He thought it only right to
state, in confirmation of the testimony borne by the hon.
member for Sandwich, and as the result of his long expe-
rience, that a more zealous and intelligent body of men it
would be difficult to bring together than the class of offi-
cers to whom the working of railway traffio was intrusted.
He believed they were keenly alive to the responsibilities
which attached to their several situations and in the dis-
charge of their duties were deserving of all praise. Indeed,
if it were not so, it would be absolutely impossible to con-
duct the great mass of traffic on the English railways with
even the number of accidents which was now thought to
be so large. (Hear, hear.) This led him to remark, in
comparing the accidents on English with the accidents on
foreign railways, on the greater speed and greater number
of trains in this country. In Belgium there were few ac-
cidents ; but by the Belgian trains they did not travel
much faster than by the old stage coach. (Hear, hear.)
In France there were few accidents ; and in America, until
lately, their number was very limited. The speed, com-
paratively speaking, was slow, and the number of trains
would be totally inadequate to meet the wants of an Eng-
lish cummunity. Where in England ten or twenty trains
were run, in Franco or America the number was only four
or five. As the speed was increased, the number of acci-
dents increased. In a recent letter from Berlin be saw an
account of five serious accidents on the Prussian railways,

and in America the son of the President had lost his life
in as frightful a casualty as had ever been reported. (Hear,
hear.) By the last official return from the Board of Trade,
it appeared that, while the number of passengers in the
half-year ending the 39th June, 1852, was 39,249,605, only
one pamenger was killed from causes beyond his own con-
trol. He did not dispute the fact that accidents had oc-
curred which ought not to have occurred, and that they
ought to be prevented by legislation, if legislation could
prevent them. But no later than the last half-year, it was
shown by an official return that, with the multiplicity of
trains, and the high rate of speed to meet the public wants
only one passenger had lost his life from causes beyond his
own control. In conclusion, he would observe, that in
common with all who were interested in the subject of rail-
way accidents, he hoped some good would result from the
committee now presided over by the President of the Board
of Trade. He did not look for that good in any exclusive
benefits to be given to railway companies, because he be-
lieved, if railway property did benefit indirectly, the
public advantage must in the first instance be consulted.
(Hear.)

Mr. H. BROWN denied that railway management had
improved of late years, and asserted that the common
question now asked at every breakfast-table was, " Are
any railway accidents reported in to-day's paper ?" (Hear.)
He begged to withdraw the motion.
The motion was accordingly withdrawn.
BRECON COLLEGE.

Mr. GOTJLBURN, in moving for leave to introduce a
bill for the future regulation, management, and permanent
endowment of the College of Christ, in Brecon, explained
that the management of ecclesiastical endowments, in
deaneries in which Brecon was included, devolved upon
the Ecclesiastical Commissioners, and in 1845 their atten-
tion was directed to the nature of the property and the
obligations of the trust of the College of Brecon. It ap-
peared that the original constitution was under a charter
of as early a date as the thirteenth century, confirmed in
the reign of King Henry VIII. The college was to be
established for the encouragement of letters and divinity,
and extending the benefits of education throughout that
portion of the principality of Wales. From the antiquity,
of the grants, there wero difficulties in the way of ascer-
taining the precise purpose of the donors, and the extent
of the property applicable to the collegiate and ecclesiasti-
cal part of the establishment, and with a view to deter-
mine those questions some gentlemen at Brecon proposed
to file a bill in Chancery. Upon examination it clearly
appeared that, from the number of parties to the suit,
nearly the whole of the property would be expended.
That being a course which it was not advisable to pursue,
the Ecclesiastical Commissioners proposed a compromise,
and by mutial consent it was agreed that a bill should be
brought into Parliament to give effect to an arrangement
by which the ecclesiastical management devolved upon the
Ecclesiastical Commissioners, 'and by which a permanent
endowment of sufficient amount was assigned to the colle-
giate or school establishment, and a college would be esta-
blished at Brecon calculated to fulfil in every respect the
purposes of the original charter. It was in conformity
with that arrangement that he proposed to introduce the
bill of which he had given notice. The subject was one of
considerable complications, and he thought it better to
defer any explanation of the details until the house should
have had an opportunity of seeing the bill itself. It was
enough for him to state that in the proposed scheme sub-
mitted to their approbation, the rules and ordinances by
which the college would be governed were fully set forth.
He was glad to be able to add, that when the present
leases fell in, an amount of property would devolve on the
college establishment worthy of the monarch by whom it
was founded, and that an institution would be established
in that part of the principality which would be highly
conducive to the advancement of letters and learning.
(Hear, hear.)
Mr. HUME thought more information should be given
before any further proceedings on this bill took place, to
satisfy the house that the scheme proposed would be of
the greatest possible utility to the community, and carry
out the will of the donor to the greatest possible advantage.
He should object to any new clerical establishment, till he
saw how far the funds were applied to the community at
large, for whom ho understood they were originally in-
tended. (Hear, hear.)
Sir B. HALL said the object of the bill, as he understood
it, was to make that useful which had hitherto been useless,
and to apply funds which ought long since to have been ap-
plied to the education of the people. As an inhabitant of that
part of the country, and knowing something of the circum-
stances, he was very much obliged to the Ecclesiastical
Commissioners for having turned their attention at last to
this establishment, and he hoped ample time before the
second reading would be given to enable the residents in
the principality to master the contents of this measure.
The property belonging to this establishment was of enor-
mous extent. He believed the property was worth nearly
8,0001. a year, and the house would hear with some sur-
prise, that although this 8,0001. a year had been enjoyed
by somebody—not by the laity—a short time ago there was
hardly a boy in the school ; and from 1839 down to a very
recent period, not a single prayer had been offered up in
that place of worship. The building had been used by
those who had charge of it for the most improper purposes,
and during fairs horses had been taken in to stand, and a
charge made for the accommodation. If the funds had
ignorance in that part of the principality,
Las
been properly applied there might not have been so
funds
he'raewwealls
hasa4ye
eweelesi:astmtpielayi.sputiriffic,eiesnest. fAorshtehret
teituecastileoeenal
a pane of glass in the building, the water was running
through the roof, and sheep were in the prebendal stalls
and at the altar. It was altogether in a most disgraceful
state, and Sir Thomas Phillips, a gentleman who had taken
great interest in the matter, had published a book, in which
he said, the college of Brecon combined almost every
abuse which existed in the appropriation and management
iteeicaltuprersoPeorrtsyer. The church was not kept in re-
mons were delivered, and no Ber-
vpo ifaci arcc a
s' l Na
roes performed. The college church, a handsome
building, was so dilapidated that the roof would have
fallen in, had not a layman who received his education at
the college made the necessary repairs ; and public worship
had not been performed in it since 1839."
as he had said, was worth 7,5001. or 8,000/. They epa
rr o. p e r
laity had not enjoyed it. Somebody must have enjoyed it.
(Hear,
have c e rhteaai In.) fixed By.the act of 1836, all the bishops were to
was to have 4500 Incomes'
count of theincomeyoefartle His
see
and the Bishop of St. David's
b which predecessor
it
wassent
inrovaendato
be 1,609/. less than 4,500/. a
Yc"
see,
and thereforep 1,6001. a
year was paid by the Ecclesiastical' Commissioners to the
Bishop of St. David's to make
upthe supposed deficiency.
That deficiency did not exist, as the income of a prependal
staid was more than 1,600/. a year. The reason he had
alluded to this was that the Bishop of St. David's happened
to be dean and treasurer of this collegiate church, and the
property of this collegiate establishment formed a portion
of his income to the extent of 3001. or 4001. a year, for
which he performed no duty whatever. He wished the
right hon. gentleman would tell them whether there had
been an communication with the Bishop of St. David's
as to giving up the money he received over and above the
income assigned to the see, and particularly that portion
for which he did nothing whatever. (Hear.)
Mr. AGLIONBY thought further information should
be laid on the table of the house. It would be still more
valuable if the Ecclesiastical Commissioners accompanied it
with some report of their own on the necessity of the bill,
and any correspondence which had passed between them
and the bishop of the diocese.
Mr. GOULBURN still thought the better course was to
the
postpone detailed explanations. The preamble s
• stated
there
would general facts, and if any explanation was desired
would be no difficulty in affording- information of the
thought
grounds on which the Ecclesiastical Commissioners
it better to forego a suit in Chancery,
honourable member for
which would absorb
the whole of the property.
The ho
to the house that the pro.
Marylebone seemed to represent