The Sun.
London, England, 1853-07-06 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVI4:ININGr, JULY 60 1858.

yards, were, in truth, as the circular of 1847 pointed out, 1 cries of order, during which the hon. gentleman resumed
in a very disadvantageous position as compared with work- , his seat amid great laughter.)
men in private yards. Before 1847, as the circular stated, Mr. KEATING resumed.—The words of the committee's
eselittle doubt that these results have attended
political influence affected the promotions of the workmen . report,,Th ewreerceanthbe
the appointments adverted to by witnesses well qualified to
and !Tem an- impartial opinion
distinguished
subject.
alike
:
apart from their merit, and the object of the circular of
that year was to change the system! and to supply those
racter n the
pecuniary rewards which were given in private yards,
which obtained for private yards a decided advantage over cha
for°ffi epeirs.ofeefssihoingalh the Royal yards. Among the officer who had given the abilities andnavy,
most decided testimony to the entire success of that ex-
periment were Captain Milne, Captain Richards, Admiral h'notion in the dockyards during the last summer with appre-
Sir T. Herbert, Admiral Parker, Commodore Seymour, eusion, with feelings of humiliation, with dismay, and even
with disgust."
and Commodore Eden, and even the Duke of Nor-
thumberland would be found to have been strongly That statement was amply borne out by the letters of Cora-
in favour of consulting with the Surveyor of the Navy modore Seymour, Admiral Parker, and Captain Richards,
with regard to dockyard appointments. (Hear, hear.) which had been put in evidence. It had been proved also
Indeed, every officer called before the committee who had that the hon. gentleman the Secretary to the Admiralty
anything to do with the working of the circular bore the stood at the ticket-office at Devonport, with the Govern-
most unqualified testimony to its success. Among the wit. ment candidates for that borough, as the workmen came
nesses who gave evidence before the committee on this out of the yard; that he entertained the political friends
subject there was, however, one very characteristic excep- of the candidates there, the expenses of his trip and of the
tion, an electioneering agent—("hear, hear," and laughter) dinner being charged to' the contingencies fund. (Hear.)
—according to whom, not only had the circular had been It could not be doubted that such proceedings tended to
insufficient to effect the object with which it was issued, impair the efficiency of the service, and to bring discredit
but political influence had been more rife—or certainly as upo n the Government. owever they might be regarded
rife—in the borough of Devonport since 1847 as ever it by hon. gentlemen oppoHsite, these matters were viewed
was before. That witness complained that scarcely any very seriously throughout the country at large, and he be-
but Whigs were promoted—(a laugh)—and he mentioned lieved they were calculated not alone to damage this or
that out of 36 promotions only two of the parties promoted that party, but to bring the entire Government of this
wore Conservatives. Now, the house must recollect that country into discredit. (Cheers.) Under these circum-
dockyard promotions took place under the direct super- stances, he called upon the house to confirm the resolution
vision of the Commodore Superintendent, Commodore of which he had given notice. (Cheers and counter cheers.)
Seymour, a gentleman whom the electioneering agent to On
the question being put by the SPEAKER,
whom he had referred, Mr. Beer, considered to be a Con- Sir J. PAKINGTON rose to move the adjournment of
servative. It was most honourable to Commodore Sey- this debate, and he did so because the extraordinary course
mour that no one had ever been able to discover, from the which the hon, and learned gentleman had thought it
exercise of his authority in the dockyard, what his political fitting and becoming to take—(cheers and counter-cheers)
opinions were. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Beer charged the —had precluded the possibility of any fair discussion of
Admiralty administration of the right hon, member for the motion, or any fair reply to the charges which he had
Portsmouth (Sir F. Baring) with every species of political advanced. He could not congratulate the hon. and learned
corruption that could exist in the dockyards. Mr. Beer gentleman on the course he had taken. Perhaps the hon.
and learned gentleman might be learned in the law, but it
said that that administration had created superannuations was clear that he had a very limited sense of justice— loud
wantonly and needlessly, for the purpose of making the cheers), and not even his short experience in that house
appointments consequent upon those superannuations. could for a moment excuse the most unjust course which
Mr. Beer, however, charged against them not only that
he had adopted— (oh ! and cheers) as to the gross impro-
they created superannuations needlessly for the purpose of priety of which he (Sir J. Pakington)' believed that almost,
increasing their patronage, but that they actually super-
and he had hoped he might say quite, every man in that
annuated men who were Conservatives, while they retained house must have concurred. The hon. and learned gen-
in full employment men who ought to' be superannuated, tleman had, at one time when he was interrupted, spoken
because they were Whigs. Mr. Beer mentioned the case of the importance of the
subject. Very true, it was
of two men brought up for superannuation, one of whom ta t. But the more important the subject, the
were was named Honey, and the other Axford ; both of them imore vital was that admission to the decorum of the
were over 60 years of age. Honey had always voted for
course which he had taken. (Hear.) The hon. and learned
the Conservatives, and Axford was a very active partisan gentleman had had short experience in this house, but
of the Whig side. Honey was told that he was too old, he had had long experience in courts of justice, and there
and must be superannuated, and Avford was kept, though he must have learned, and he ought to know, that the
he was 7 years older, and, as Mr. Beer was told, the inferior more important the subject the more imperative was
workman of the two. Mr. Beer was asked whether the
superintendent of the yard did not attend the exami- the necessity that that subject should be adequately, fairly,
and discussed.
justly(Cheers.) Yet the hon. and learned.
nation of the men named for superannuation, and his entleman made a speech, two hours in length, criminat-
answer was, "I do not know." He (Mr. Keating) was 'a
mg hon. me eers) and bringing heavy charges
ers—(ch
informed that these examinations took place in the pre- against an Administration, knowing at that very moment
Bence of the superintendent, of two surgeons, and of that •
it was physically impossible that any answer could be
other officers ; and Mr. Beer was therefore, in effect,
made
to the accusations he was bringing forward. (Cheers.)
charging these gentlemen with a conspiracy for the pur- He (Sir J. Pakington) for one, he believedamong
many
pose of superannuating one man and
fining.retain another others, had been prepared to dise'n the question with the
of more advanced age and less ability e public hon. and learned entle He man. came forward to beg the
service. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Beer mentioned also the Government for a a day, and did not shrink from the dis-
ease of two persons named Orem and Burt. Burt was cussion of this question. He wareared to say, and he
represented to be a Conservative, and Orton a Whig. said now, that had he been permitted
to do so, he came
Burt, who had previously voted with the Whigs at down fully prepared to discuss •
it, and to contend that
the last election, voted for the Conservative candidates, the administration of the Board of Admiralty
under Lord
but flattered himself that his vote was not known to the was entitled to the gratitude, and
Government
master shipwright, to whom he applied for an appointment Derby's
not to the—(the remainder of the te sen nee was inandi-
at Portsmouth to learn the planing-machine. Burt said ble amidst the cries of " Oh, oh !" and counter cheers.)
the master shipwright had promised him the appointment, This was what he had been prepared to contend for,
but Mr. Beer told him that Oram had been selected, and and would have contended for, if a course had not
Mr. Beer evidently wished the committee to believe that been taken which he held to be a greater departure
Orem had been appointed upon the discoveryby the master from justice than any he remembered to have been taken
shipwright that Burt had voted for the Conservative can- in this house. Had he been favoured with an opportunity,
didates. It happened, however, that Commodore Seymour it would have been his duty to have taken grave exception
instituted an inquiry on the subject ;he had the two men to the report of the committee. He was quite aware that
before him • and he came to the conclusion that the - that committee was presided over by a noble lord of great
pointment had never been promised to Burt, and that ability and long experience in this house, and that that
Orem had been appointed in consequence of his merit, committee consisted of gentlamen whose honour and char-
which was unquestionably superior to that of his
formr acter he was the last man to question ; but he did think
titer. (Hear.) The circular of 1847 was issued t
.e that that committee had been led into a report which was
purpose of placing the Royal dockyards as nearly as possi-
the open to very grave exception, and the tone of which was
ble upon an equality with private yards, and what ea most bitter and most severe—a tone of bitterness and se-
consequence ; Why, from 1846-47 as compared with verity which we would have endeavoured to show, had he
1851-52 there was a saving of 139,0001. in the annual ex- had the opportunityhe
desired, was not borne out by the
penditure for wages—(cheers)—the number of men em- evidence. (Cheers.) He believed he could have shown that
ployed was reduced from between 12,000 and 113,000 to while
the committee ave no oinions, they had indulged
between 9,000 and 10,000—(hear, hear)—and as large an in sarcasmsand insinuations
difficult
far more Bevan, and far more
amount of,
work was obtained from the lesser as had been
grapple with, than the expression of any direct
performed
by the greater number. (Hear, hear.) He • •to
opinions ; and he was sorry to say that, in his judgment,
thought, therefore, it would be extremely difficult for any that rt however . '
repo , unconsciously on the part of the
member on the opposition side to contend that the circu-
lars of 1847 and 1849 had not effected the object for committee, was open to the grave exception of being char-
whichacterised rather by party prejudice and party bias than
they were issued. They had, indeed, the evidence b • . •
that dicial impartiality which oueht to hay Lon hearse been
of the Duke of Northumberland and of the late Secretary iTs firstnil
ts chief characteristic. (Loud cheers.) He of the Admiralty in favour of the circular of 1847 ; and should not endeavour to follow the hon. and learned gentle-
the late Secretary to the Admiralty excused the cancelling man through his " beer" and " honey"—(laughter)--be-
of the circular of 1849 on the ground that it would lead to
a return to the system of 1847. On the 2d or 3d of March cause it was impossible so to follow him ; but he should
have commented, if he had had time, on the manner in
last year the Administration of Lord Derby came into which that report referred to the hon. member for
office, and on the 31st of March Mr. Grant, a clerk of the Northampton (Mr. Stafford), and ho thought he could
Admiralty, and private secretary to the late Secretary to '
have shown to the satisfaction of this house, and, what
the Admiralty, found himself at Somerset-house, and, of more importance, to the sat' •
satisfaction of the
being there he went to Sir B. Walker and requested that was
that the hon. member for Northampton was
he (Sir B. Walker) would not submit the names of persons public,
most partially
to be promoted into the vacancies for foremen and inspec- iiokeof Northumberland,
No dealt with in that report. With regard to
rthumberland, the First Lord of the
tors of shipwrights in Devonport Dockyard, as Mr. Staf- Ad i It h
human being more anxious far the honour of the promote some of their party. Sir B. Walker replied that noble se • towhich he belonged, and for the good he had been upwards of four years in the department ; of the rvl.ce than was the noble duke in the
that he had never allowed political motives to influence course of country,ws act • min4ration. (Cheers.) They were told
his submissions to the board ; and he was not going to of the •
manner in which these dockyard appointments were
commence jobbing for him or anybody else. (Hear, hear.) carried out, and it was said that the Duke of Northumber-
Eden, a clerk in the Surveyor's department, entered the land abandoned the whole of his civil patronage to the
room during this interview, and stated that he heard the
reply made by Sir B. Walker. Now, if this was regarded secretary. Now, it was no such thing. It ought to be
known that all these minor appointments had been, during
as a mere question of accuracy between Mr. Grant and the
Surveyor of the Navy, he (Mr. Keating) thought there could the administration of previous First Lords, always in the
of the secretary, and had never been dispensed by
be no doubt on which side the weight of evidence lay. thent First Lord. He should have been able to show that,
The late Secretary to the Admiralty had stated before eve
the committee that ho had not sent Mr. Grant to make of rawt regard
Northumberland
thesemin.?rappointments, the Duke
had been influenced by the most laud-
this communication to the Surveyor of the Navy, and that able anxiety
that they should be carried out in the man-
statement was confirmed by Mr. Grant. He (Mr. Kest- near most conducive to the benefit •
of the service and of the
ing) had no doubt that Mr. Grant had not been sent on at
country
large. (Cheers.) One expression of this re-
this mission, but it was wholly inconceivable that a clerk t ' hich the Duke
por , in w of Northumberland w referred
in the Adnalralty should go to the Snrveyor of the Navy to, he considered most harsh and most un'ust The COM-
and make a proposition of this sort if he had not ascer- •tt • I j .mi ee said :
tamped, in some shape or way, that the proposition would
" One officer, of •
not be unpalatable to some of the higher authorities at the
Admiralty. (Cheers.) [Mr. Keating then read the letter the Admiralty, had power to check these proceedings ;an
addressed to Mr. Stafford to Sir B. Walker, stating that appeal was more than once made to him ; he intimated his
d
great dissatisfaction existed among his political friends as disapproval, but he declined to interfere. His rank and sta-
tetion in the country, his position in the Government, his con-
tions the present arrangement of appointments and promo- .
with the gallant service of the navy, were deemed to
nexion
in the dockyards, and the answer of Sir Baldwin,
securities for the administration of a department confided
be
which were published in the report of the recent debates
on this subject.] Now, subsequently the late Secretary to to the Duke of Northumberland."
the Admiralty took credit to himself for having asked Sir He would ask the right hon. gentleman now presiding over
B. Walker for his opinion on this matter, and certainly the Admiralty, whether, in his opinion, the administration
the opinion of Sir B. Walker was expressed in the most of that great department really turned upon the appoint-
distinct terms, about which there could be no mistake. ment of joiners and caulkers, and oakum boys? Were there
It appeared, however, that that opinion was asked rather no graver matters ? How did the Duke of Northumber-
as a compliment than with any intention of acting upon land administer that patronage which was really his ? What
it. Sir B. Walker afterwards waited upon the Secretary were his instructions to Admiral Fanshawe ? Did that
to the Admiralty, and a discussion took place between show party feeling ? Did that show political bias? Then
them as to the tendered resignation of Sir B. Walker. It as to the construction of the committee appointed by him
was clear that the Surveyor of the Navy had no patronage, for the manning of the navy.. Did those appointments
properly so called ; his function was merely to forward the take place from party motives ? The chairman, Admiral
names sent to him by the superintendent, and to express Parker, was one of the most distinguished officers in the
his opinion upon the recommendations. It was impossible navy, and had been at the Board of Admiralty under the
to conceive how the object of getting rid of political in. Whig Government. Three of the members were entirely
fluence in the dockyards could be attained by the cancel- opposed in politics to the Duke of Northumberland, one of
lation of the circular of 1849. Sir E. Walker on the sth them was of his own politics, and the fifth of no politics at
of April had an interview with the Secretary of the Ad- all. His appointments to the command of vessels had
miralty, and repeated in very strong terms what he had been distinguished by the like impartiality ; and for the
stated in his letter. A warm discussion took place two measures standing on the notice paper for this evening
between them, and Sir E. Walker stated that the Secre- in the name of the right hon. baronet (Sir J. Graham),
tart' of the Admiralty said to him there was no blinking with regard to the manning of the navy, the country
the question, for he was so placed by Lord Derby and the would be indebted to the steps taken by the noble duke
Chancellor of the Exchequer he could not help himself, when First Lord of the Admiralty. Never were greater
but must have recourse to some change in the system of services rendered to the navy then when the board was
promotion. The Secretary of the Admiralty, however, presided over by the Duke of. Northumberland. (Hear,
did not agree with Sir B. Walker, but he said that—as hear.) The right hon. baronet opposite, much to his credit,
nearly as he recollected--the words he used that the was now about to carry out the report of the committee
Government of Lord Derby and the Chancellor of the which the duke had appointed and instructed. Had time
Exchequer would not allow all promotions to be in the allowed he would have adverted to the state of our fisheries
hands of their political opponents any more than any other on the coast of North America, in which the Government
Government. The hon. gentleman attributed to himself and the Crown had derived effectual assistance from the
phrases ho could hardly have used, but it really signified efficient administration of the duke ; but his object was to
little whether the statement of Sir B. Walker or of the show the impossibility of analysing time evidence, which the
Secretary of the Admiralty was correct, because, as the hon. and learned gentleman had attempted to do, at such
report said, all that was important in the matter was that a period of the morning. As far as he was concerned, he
the names of these two distinguished personages were used could only protest against the injustice of the course now
in a discussion in which the Secretary of the Admiralty taken, and repeat his opinion that if time were given it
endeavoured to constrain the Surveyor of the Navy to con- could be shown to the satisfaction of the house and of the
sent to an alteration of the system of promotion. The country that the department over which the Duke of Nor-
opinion of Sir B. Walker on the point of promotion ought thumberland had presided was entitled to their gratitude
to have great weight with the hon. gentleman, and the rather than their censure. (Hear, hear.)
hon. gentleman asked him his opinion, and not only re- Mr. DISRAELI said, that as far as he understood, there
ceived his opinion, but also his most positive assurance, was every prospect of the debate being renewed, and ho
that the change would affect his control over the dock- .
thought nothing could be more unjust or unfair than to yards and consequently their efficiency. Certain persons
whom the hon. gentleman consulted, and who know much allow that motion to be made without any decision, on it,
more about the details than the hon. gentleman could have , and he trusted his right lion. friend would not persevere in
done, said the cancellation of the circular would not effect I his motion for the adjournment, but would ask the house
the object the hon, gentleman supposed ; but there was I
1 for an immediatevote the question.
on (Cheers from the
one object that cancellation could effect, and what was it? 1 Opposition.) —
They appealed under great disadvantages,
It gave the control to the Surveyor of the Navy with re-
to all the dockyards, so that lie alone could judge the accusations having been heard without a reply,
what vacancies should be filled. The superintendents but that was a course they had a right to expect.
were limited to their particular dockyards, bat the Stir- , He had only one observation to make with regard to the
veyor of the Navy was the person who presided over all Duke of Northumberland. The duke had been inferentially
the dockyards. At the time the late Administration came charged with a number of very paltry accusations on that
into office there were between 200 and 300 vacancies kept and on another occasion. All ho could say was, that he
principally for the apprentices that were coming out of believed there never was an instance in which more energy,
their time, and the greater part of these vacancies the more ability, and more devotion was brought to bear on
Secretary was enabled to fill up without the control of the I the administration of a great office than in the case of the
Surveyor. The consequence was that shortly afterwards, Duke of Northumberland. (Opposition cheers.) Let him
when 160 apprentices were out of their time, there were remind the house that that nobleman was only 10 months
only 34 vacancies left to give them. This was an illustra- in office, that he was hardly absent from a single board,
tion of the mischief which was occasioned by the cancelling and that in the space of these 10 months he protected their
of the circular. The hon. gentleman was perfectly correct colonies, defended their coasts, and manned their navy—
in stating that before cancelling the circular he had con- (hear, hear) ;—and let him remind them, also, that those
suited the First Lord of the Admiralty ; but it appeared great operations had been conceived and mainly conducted
from the evidence of the Frst Lord that, although cognizant by .the duke himself, and that with his own hand he
of the step, he gave no directions respecting it, and that he , wrote the instructions to the committee for manning the
acquiesced in it only when he thought the power of issuing 1 navy which had been laid on their table, and read with
the circular belonged to the secretary. He (Mr. Keating) i approbation by every member of that house. A man
had no hesitation in saying that if the question had been actuated by such a high sense of duty, and capable of per-
the suspension of the functions of the meanest clerk or forming such deeds, could not be crushed by any factions
lowest porter in the Admiralty, it would have been un- opposition. (Loud Opposition cheering.) ife trusted his
justifiable to accede to it without surer information and right hon. friend would withdraw his amendment, and
better grounds than those which appeared to have I would ask the house to vote at once their decision on this
formed the foundation for cancelling this important circa- great question. (Cheers, and cries for a division.)
lar. (Hear, hear.) It was true that the Board of Admi- Lord SEYMOUR (amid some expressions of impatience)
ralty, by their minute of the 26th of April, recognised the i observed that the right hon. baronet had begun by telling
cancelling of the circular. To that extent, therefore, it , the house of his great love for justice, but had proceeded
might be said that the hon. gentleman was supported by ; to attack the report of the committee, which had been
the board. The hon. member then proceeded, amid loud I agreed to unanimously by the members who were on both
and continued cries of " Divide !" and other interruptions, sides of the house, though he had not brought forward the
to refer to the appointment of Ridgeway, a second-class . exact points on which he wished to condemn it. If they
leading man at the metal mills, Chatham, to be acting were not to adjourn the debate, how was the right hon.
first-class man, not only without the recommendation of baronet to prove his case, and show the report was un-
the superintendent (Captain Richards), but in the face of just and unfair. He objected to the words of the report
his report that he was unfit for the appointment. This with respect to the Duke of Northumberland and the
was a distinct violation of the circular of 1847. (Hear] , ;civil patronage of the navy ; but, was it wrong to
hear.) There were 10 cases at that port in which the cirt i,amote the words of a witness when giving their
cular of 1847 was distinctly violated. At Devonport there ;of
as to his evidence ? Was that the way the
were 12 cases of the same kind. At Deptford there were 1 right hon. baronet proved the report was unjust ? He
also several instances, in one of which a person who had I watched to see if the right hon. baronet referred to the
been previously discharged for drunkenness was, by the evidence to show that the report was contradictory to it, but
order of the Admiralty, directed to be promoted, against : not one instance had ho been able to bring forward. When
the direction of the superintendent. At Woolwich the he (Lord Seymour) brought the report to the committee,
number of cases was eight, although they differed from the he entreated them to look to this point - -that in every word
cases to which ho had alluded in the other dockyards so far 'of it they were borne out by the evidence. Whether they
that the letter of the circular of 1847 was not violated. In agreed or not as to quoting the words of the evidence, the
every one of these cases the circular in question had been first thing he told them they had to look to was to see
violated for political purposes. q
urposes. (Cheers.) The hon. gen- . there was not a word used which the evidence did not prove
tleman the Secretary for the Admiralty had himself stated 1 —and in that he had the consent of all the commitee, and
that in most of the cases—he (Mr. Keating) took the liberty it was carried out in their report, which was, he thought,
of saying in all—in which he had differed from the super- fair--(oh, oh, from the Opposition)—and which he was
intendant, he had acted under the of his politicalprepared to notoverstated. (Renewed groaning.)
pressure
friends., The debate ought to be adjourned, in order to enable the
Mr. BOOKER, amid cries of " Chair'
' and great confu- house to go fairly into the question, and he would there-
sion, rose to order. When the hon. and learned gentleman fore vote for the motion.
broadly stated that individuals of blemished character had The question
been promoted merely for the sake of Aye,olitical purposes— " " and others " No." A short pause ensued, and
(order, order)—and when he stated ond and continued finally the gallery waa cleared in pursuance of shouts of