The Sun.
London, England, 1853-03-05 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT,

friendly and neighbouring States to which we are bound
by international law. If, indeed, it were possible that
the law of this country disabled us from performing those
duties of paramount obligation, then, indeed, it might
be necessary to consider the subject ; but as I trust—
and I am now confirmed by my noble and learned friend
—that this is not the case, I hope that we shall be able
to do all that foreign powers have a right to require,
without having recourse to any extraordinary remedies
of this kind. My lords, if it could be supposed possible
that the Government of this country, or that the people
of this country, had any connivance with, or were even
indifferent to the perpetration of the acts which have
been alluded to, then, indeed, a greater degree of hosti-
lity would be justified than any that has been hitherto
shown towards us. I speak not only of the atrocious
attempt on the life of the illustrious prince, the hope of
his family, whose danger has revived all that ancient
loyalty and devoted attachment which has been so long
the possession of his family, but also of the recent out-
break at Milan, where a few desperate men have taken
and put to death some sentries at their post, and other
isolated individuals. These men may call themselves
patriots, but they are merely assassins in disguise.
My lords, I think that any powers such as are supposed
to be necessary for the Government of this country to
possess would really be injurious to the tranquillity and
peace of this country. (Hear.) If such a law as that
to which I have alluded to should exist, it must either
be on the supposition that discretion would be exercised
and inquiry instituted in every case before the law was
carried into effect ; this would naturally lead to differ-
ences of opinion between the State complaining and our-
selves, as to the amount of proof required, and might
thereby lead to very serious differences between us ; on
the other hand, the only alternative would be a gene-
ral acquiescence in any such demands, and that would
be a state of degradation to which it would be impossi-
for us to submit. (Hear.) But I trust that if foreign
Governments are persuaded, not only that the Govern-
ment but the people of this laud with
any such abominable attempts as those to which my
noble and learned friend has alluded, they will be dis-
posed to trust in the good faith, in the sincerity, and in
the honesty of the attempts of the Government to put
that law into effect which we consider to be sufficient for
the purpose. (Hear.) My noble and learned friend has
alluded to the duty of the Government to take the initi-
ative in these proceedings, and to institute prosecutions
upon them. Now, I have the satisfaction of informing
my noble and learned friend that the Government have
already come to that decision, in case of any such events
occurring as to give fresh ground of complaint--(hear)—
not to throw upon the foreign minister the burden of
instituting such a prosecution, but when a case is made
out sufficient to justify a proper legal proceeding against
any party so implicated, that the Government will take
it upon themselves to carry on such prosecution. Foreign
powers have already been informed of that determina-
tion. (Hear.) Ido not know that I need say anything
more on this subject. Lamenting, as we all must do,
the existence of any cause which should produce aliena-
tion and estrangement between powers which have been
long and intimately connected, I do trust that the as-
surance we have given and are prepared to act upon may
be sufficient to allay the alarm which has prevailed upon
this subject. (Hear.)
Lord BROUGHAM said that he could not avoid
adding a few observations to those which his noble and
learned (Lord Lyndhurst) had made, as the subject was
one of extreme importance, not only in a constitutional
sense, but with a view to the great interests of the peace
of this country, and of other countries. In respect of the
law as stated by his noble and learned friend, it would be
presumptuous in him (Lord Brougham) even to accept his
challenge by confirming it by his testimony. The authority
of his noble and learned friend—greater than his (Lord
Brougham's), or than that of any person in that house—
was amply sufficient, and he would venture to say that
there was no lawyer in Westminster-hall who entertained

HOUSE OF LORDS—(YESTERDAY.)
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Wool-
sack at five o'cclock.
Lord CLANCARTY presented a great number of
petitions against the admission of Jews into Parliament ;
also a number of petitions against the Maynooth grant;
also praying fot the supervision of convents.
The Duke of ARGYLL presented a petition from the
Isle of Skye against the religious tests imposed on pro-
fessers at Scotch Universities.
Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition from Den-
bigh praying for the extension of county courts' juris-
diction ; also from Portsmouth and Portsea praying for
Parliamentary papers.
FOREIGN REFUGEES.
Lord LYNDHURST—I rise to occupy for a few
moments the attention of noble lords opposite upon a
subject in which I presume they feel a deep interest. It
is matter of public notoriety that great irritation pre-
vails in the capital of the Austrian dominions, and
throughout the whole of that country, against the people
and Government of England. So far has it been carried
that I understand the Austrian Government have thought
it right to appoint a police force to protect the residence
and person of our ambassador from insult and attack.
Although from recent circumstances that ,irritation has
been greatly increased--I allude to those painful and
deplorable events that have lately occurred—yet the
irritation owes its origin, no doubt, to the asylum
which we have afforded to foreign refugees, and the
manner in which they have been allowed to abuse the
protection which has been afforded to them by this coun-
try. Their conduct in thiraspect, as everybody feels,
has been most scandalous ; skid an impression has gone
abroad, and I believe the opinion is entertained by those
to whom I refer, that there are no means in this country
adapted for the purpose of punishing them. If that were
really the case, it would be incumbent on the Govern-
ment of this country to consider whether it would not
be proper to introduce some law on that subject; but
I do not think so ill of the common law of this country.
as to suppose that it passes by offences of this descrip-
tion without providing the means of punishing them,
My lords, I feel it to be my duty to state my opinion on
this subject, which I do with great deference in the pre-
sence of noble and learned lords who will correct me if I
am erroneous in what I state. I will first put the case
of British subjects. If a number of British subjects
were to combine and to conspire together to excite revolt
amongst the inhabitants of a friendly state, of a state
united in alliance with us, and in pursuance of that con-
spiracy were to issue manifestoes and proclamations for
the purpose of carrying that object into effect ; above
all, if they were to subscribe money for the purpose
of purchasing arms to give effect to that intended
enterprise, I conceive, and I state it with confidence,
that such persons would be guilty of a misdemeanour,
and would be liable to severe punishment by the
laws of this country, inasmuch as their conduct tends
to embroil the two countries, to lead to remon-
strance and expostulation, and might ultimately lead to
war. I think my noble and learned friends who are
assembled here, and who perform so important a part in
the deliberations of this house „will not dissent from the
opinion which I have expressed. Now, as to foreigners.
Foreigners residing in this country, so long as they re-
side here under the protection of this country, are con-
sidered in the light of British subjects, or rather as the
subjects of her Majesty, and are liable to the criminal
law in the same manner, to the same extent, and under
the same conditions, as the subjects of this country.
And in a case of this kind, where persons come here as
refugees from a foreign state in consequence of political
acts which they have committed, they are bound upon
every principle of gratitude to conduct themselves with
propriety, and I say these circumstances tend greatly to
aggravate their offence, and no one can doubt that they
are liable to severe punishment. I will put it in another
shape. The offence of endeavouring to excite revolt
amongst the inhabitants of a neighbouring state is an
offence against the law of nations, and no writer states
otherwise. But the law of nations, according to the
decision of one of our greatest judges, is part of the law
to
hf
eoffence England. In a
tt r
ibeued say n
attributed
dto
these
moree se individuals,a sto
annadt urc of
their
liability to punishment for offences of this description.
But there is a question connected with this subject of
considerable difficulty, and that relates to the evidence
by which a party can be convicted. Here I admit that
there is great difficulty—very serious difficulty. It is
not sufficient that things should be notorious to all the
world ; you must have such evidence in support of a
particular charge as will be admissable before our tri
bunals. For instance, proclamations have been dispersed
throughout Lombardy—proclamations purporting to be
issued from London. It would not be sufficient to pro-
duce these documents in a court of justice ; they would
be no evidence in support of a °barge ; you must bring
home the offence to the individual; you must show that
those proclamations were issued by his instructions,
and that they were issued from England ; and not only
that they were issued from England, but that they were
issued in consequence of some act committed by the
person charged, authorising their issue. Now in illus-
tration of this, let me refer to a case which occurred
within the last few days. A proclamation was found in
great numbers—l believe in the city of Milan in Lom-
bardy—purporting to be signed by Kossuth. Accord-
ing to that document, you would infer that it had been
issued in England ; and as that person has resided
for a considerable time in this country, and is now
resident here, it might be supposed by those
who were not acquainted with our laws, that
that would be sufficient to fix the act upon Kossuth.
But what turns out to be the case ? Why, that this
document was written two or three years ago, not in
this country, but in the Turkish dominions ; it was sent
by Kossuth to Mazzini, and was handed by him to other
persons, who altered one or two passages in it, and then
printed and published it in the name of Kossuth. That
would be no evidence in this country that Kossuth had
been guilty of any offence, or had issued any such pro-
clamation. I must remind foreigners—persons not ac-
quainted with the laws of our country—that we have a
rule, which is not, I believe, acted upon in other coun-
tries, that when a party is charged with an offence, you
cannot interrogate him as to that offence. It is an
inflexible rule of English law, and even if the safety of
the sovereign were at stake, you would not violate that
law. (Hear, hear.) These are difficulties which inter-
fere with the bringing home charges of this description,
where they are conducted with prudence and caution,
against persons supposed to be guilty of them. I men-
tion this, therefore, as an excuse for the time being for
not bringing those parties to justice. I cannot under-
take to say that there is sufficient evidence against those
parties, but I will say that I think the Government
ought to use great vigilance and great activity for the
purpose of endeavouring to obtain evidence in order to
convict parties guilty of those offences, and to restrain
the commission of them for the future. I think, with
all submission to noble lords opposite, that that is an
imperative duty upon the Government for the time
being. It appears, at least to foreigners, where no such
vigilance and no such activity has been exercised by the
Government, that they have been supine with respect to
proceedings of this kind ; and the notion, however
utterly unfounded it may be, becomes prevalent, that
we are indifferent to such proceedings, and that we do
not view them with displeasure. Nothing can be more
unfounded than imputations of this description • how-
ever, honourable men will join in the opinion which I
have expressed. (Hear, hear.) There is one point
more to which with all submission I will call the
attention of noble lords opposite. It is this. It is
not sufficient for the Government to say to a foreign
State, "Our courts are open to you ; obtain evidence
of a crime having been commited, bring that offence
into a court of justice, and justice will be done
you." I say that is not a sufficient course for the
Government to pursue. It is in my opinion, in cases
of this kind, where foreign States are concerned, where
an offence is committed not only against foreign States,
but against our own Government—it is, in my opinion,
the duty of our own Government to take the initiative
—(hear, hear)—to institute prosecutions in its own
name, and to obtain evidence of the transactions com-
plained of better than can be obtained by a foreign
State, the more particularly as they have better means
of obtaining evidence. (Hear, hear.) I have thought
it my duty to make these observations preliminary to
the question which lam about to ask—a question of
great importance, and in which I have felt a deep in-
terest. I wish, therefore, to ask the noble earl opposite
(the Earl of Aberdeen), whether any communications
have passed between this country and the Government
Austria, or any other European States, with respect to
respect to the asylum afforded to foreign emigrants in
this country, and the acts committed by the persons to
whom I have referred ? (Hear, hear.)
The Earl of ABERDEEN—My lords, in answer to
the question which my noble and learned friend has put
to me, I have to state that, although communications
have taken place respecting foreign refugees in this
country, no demand has been made either by the Go-
vernment of Austria, or by any other State of Europe.
Ido not deny—l readily admit with my noble and
I learned friend, that a considerable degree of excitement
and irritation has prevailed, and does prevail, upon this
, subject, no+ only at Vienna, but in other parts of
Europe ; and I also must say, not only on the part of
the Governments of Europe, but the feeling is shared
by the people of those countries. My lords, I must
confess that, connecting as they do certain atrocious
and sanguinary acts of recent occurrence with the re-
sidence of those refugees in this country, the feeling is,
perhaps, not unnatural, but they connect them as I be-
lieve very erroneously, and therefore I think and hope
that the feeling will subside and be set at rest before
long. My lords, I think it is right to say that it is not
the intention of her Majesty's Government to propose
law for the adoption of Parliament upon this
any. new •is not
I subject, and it
because we hope and believe that the law of this country
is sufficient to enable us to discharge those duties to

the shadow of a doubt that the law of this country, as it
at present stood, was amply sufficient to visit with se-
vere punishment, not only all conspiracy such as his
noble and learned friend had described, but lesser at-
tempts against the majesties or constitutions of foreign
nations ; he meant even libels against the persons of
those Sovereigns or authorities, which, by the law of
this country, were offences against the Sovereign of this
country and against the municipal law of England.
Conspiracy might be tried and prosecuted here, although
the place to which the conspiracy bore reference was a
foreign country. They had had a remarkable instance
some years ago, when a noble and much lamented friend
of his had been actually put upon his trial, and tried at
the sittings at Guildhall, for a conspiracy to do certain
acts in a foreign country—in South America—the lo-
cality of the conspiracy being alleged to be in England.
He (Lord Brougham) would step aside for a moment to
remark, that a greater and more flagrant example of the
evils of the system of grand juries without a public pro-
secutor he was hardly acquainted with than that very in-
stance, when that prosecution could not have taken place
if a responsible public prosecutor had the charge of it.
The law here was amplysulEcient to punish offenders who
might conspire here to commit offences in Milan, Vienna,
Berlin, or any in other foreign state. In the case of the
King v. Peltier, the defendant was prosecuted, net by
the French ambassador, but by an ex-officio information
laid by the Attorney-General. Peltier was convicted of
a libel on the Emperor Napoleon, then First Consul of
France, during the peace, and was not only brought up for
judgment by the accident of a war having broken out ;
and he entertained considerable doubt whether that
was a sufficient excuse for
,not calling the defendant
up for judgment. The law, therefore, was quite suffi-
cient. But, as had been well observed by his noble
and learned friend, it was the fact that was deficient,
and not the law—the difficulty of getting evidence, the
difficulty of finding the means of prosecuting to convic-
tion, without which a prosecution would do more harm
than good to the parties who were anxious that a prose-
cution should take place. The consequence of such a
prosecution was practically this : a long day's work in
the Court, consisting in great part of an able and elo-
quent, and most powerful address to a jury, aggravating
every topic contained in the libel, in offering all sorts of
excuses in justification of the conspiracy charged ; and
that went forth to mankind with greater force than
the libel itself, with greater force than the rumour
the conspiracy itself. It went forth with all the force of
being a part as it were of a judicial proceeding, the
speech of counsel being in the mind of the vulgar con-
founded with the proceeding itself. (Hear, hear.) And
then came the difficulty of obtaining the verdict of a
jury—sometimes the difficulty of making the jury give
any verdict at all. In that case they were discharged ;
and the prosecution fell to the ground. In the other
case there would be a verdict, after all the abuse of the

libel, and all the effects of the conspiracy had been ag-
gravated by counsel ; and the result of the whole was
worse than if no verdict had been pronounced, or even
than a verdict of acquittal. All those parties who ad-
vised prosecutions in such cases ought to look to the
possible result , and all those who urged the prosecution
ought to look at what they would get by such a pro-
ceeding. (Hear, hear.) He had taken the liberty of
making these observations because they were practi-
cal, and it was only that quality which gave them
any value. Another equally practical remark was
called for by the statement of the noble earl at the
head of the Government, and it was the only
point which he had omitted to dwell upon. It
was contended here that the law, as it at present stood,
was sufficient. Our foreign friends and allies did not
think so. They would fain in some places have an alteration
His noble friend had given an answer on that point quite
sufficient to show that no alteration could be hoped for
by them at the present time. But what would be the
possible result of any such alterations as that desired ?
Nothing would satisfy them so much as some law which
should enable the executive Government to drive from

this country those unfortunate persons who for one rea-
son or another had taken refuge within the walls, as it
were, of our general hospitality. He would not stop to
disclaim on the part of their lordships and on the part of
the people of England all participation in those atroci-
ous sentiments that had given rise to the late scandalous
and revolting proceedings, which he scarcely knew
whether most to reprobate—the successful attempt at
Milan, or, God be thanked, the unsuccessful one at
Vienna. (Hear.) This country with one voice would
be ready to express the depth, and the extent, and the
bitterness of their reprobation of such proceedings. But
he would go further and say that he could not believe—
that ho was bound in charity and in common justice to
express his disbelief of the charge—that these unfortu-
nate refugees had been any parties to these atrocious
events. But he would suppose for argument's sake,
that which in point of fact he did not believe, that the
refugees in this country had conspired to send assistance
abroad, or even had been at the bottom of the attempted
assassination ; he would suppose, which he could not in
common charity and fairness and justice to these poor
people, believe that they were not innocent of, having
joined in a conspiracy or rebellion, and, still more, of
having joined or set on a murderous assassin—the ques-
tion would be of a law, and the execution of that law,
which should drive such persons from their refuge here
to a far distant land. Suppose the Government had the
power, under the Alien Act, of driving them out of the
country. They could not go to the continent of Europe.
I That was quite clear. The moment they were driven out
of this country there would be no rest for the sole of
their toot on the continent of Europe. They would
be driven across the Atlantic. Would that put an end
to conspiracy ? Would that put an end to the sending
of succour to Europe, or the sending of assassins to
Europe ? It would be the difference between fifteen
days' sail and four or five days' sail, and then precisely
the same risk would be encountered by these foreign
princes and governments, if they run any risk. They
would run just the same risk after a little, delay, and
no difference could by possibility be made by the exist-
ence and execution of such a law in the prevention of
these schemes, whether of murder or conspiracy.(Hear.)
o
He hoped these considerations would have their weight
in high quarters, and that the parties interested
would
see that if they wished for such a change in the law and
its execution, that it would have no kind
practical
of
peffect. The subject was one of paramount.
imortance,
and he trusted that the little discussion
which
had taken
noble earl,
place, and, above all, the statement of
the
w have a decidedly beneficial effect, (gear.)

They asked for an Indian council—an introduction of
the Indian element into their Government. There was
no one who had attended the committees on this subject
biit would admit that so far from there being a lack of
genius, power, intelligence, or high principle on the part
of the civil servants in India, there was an abundance ;
butigefsepatelywit was not found that these gentle-
men belonged to the court of directors ; and he thought
that if we confided such powers to the court of directors,
the best we could do was to take some pains to insure
the admission into it of the largest amount of talent, the
greatest amount of experience, and the highest moral
and intellectual culture that we could. All this should
r have access to the court, and should be directed and
turned to the public account both at home and abroad,
as regarded the civil service, more especially the judicial
service. The Lord Chief Justice of England had stated
that from his own experience in connection with the ju-
dicial committee before which the subject of Indian tri-
bunals were brought, nothing could be more discredit.
able than the administration of Indian affairs was shown
to be. It would be a wonder if it were otherwise.
There was no specific education for those who enjoyed
this trust ; and it was uniformly found that of those more
distinguished students who went out from Haileybury,
the first and best took to other departments ; the least
informed, the least promising, the worst, in one sense,
were sent to be the future judges of India ; and that
was not becoming, surely—that was not the way in
which the law should be administered—to select for the
judicial department, by an ingenious misapplication of
choice, exactly those who were the least fit for the
posts to which they were appointed. The inferior
judges were natives, and it could not. be denied
that their decisions had more weight than those of
their superior. That was proved by the fact that when
both classes of decision came before a common court
of appeal, the Indian were more supported than the
European. There was no question that, as regarded the
natives, it would be the proper course to advance them
as they showed their qualifications and abilities in in-
ferior offices ; and to this was no answer to say that you
would not do so in the army service. He did not wish
to see natives at the head of the army, but what ex-
cluded them from one cffice did by no means necessarily
exclude them from another. He hoped that this peti-
tion would be referred to a committee of that house, and
investigated, not as a matter of form, but as a matter of
truth. He hoped that as much attention would be paid
to it, distant though the petitioners were, as if it came
from the multitudes in the manufacturing districts.
The Earl of ABERDEEN did not mean to deny that

Lord TRURO, who spoke with his back to the gallery,
was understood to say that one of the most important
points was the desire on the part of foreign Governments
that the English Government should endeavour to pro-
cure the passing of some new law on this subject. Now,
it was quite clear that if the old law was sufficient a
new one would not be desirable. But in what respect
could a new law be framed that would be observed ?
The difficulty was in the procuring of evidence to sustain
a prosecution. Would an alien law have any such
effect ? Not in the slightest degree. His noble and
learned friend had stated most correctly that it was the
duty of the British Government to do everything in their
power to prevent that course of conduct which had been
pursued, and he would venture to say that during the
short time he had the honour of being connected with the
Government no pains were spared, but every effort was
made to detect and punish such parties. If the Govern-
ment had made an attempt to prove a case, and had not
been able to do so, what would have been the conse-
quence ? Just what his noble and learned friend had
stated. Such a proceeding would have done infinite harm
for it would have shown the parties how far they could
go without being detected, without the law being able
to reach them. An abortive prosecution would have
shown them what would be understood as the weakness
of the law ; whereas the failure would have arisen
from the difficulty of ascertaining the fact. It would
have encouraged parties to the prosecution of these
very conspiracies which it was the object of the com-
plaining parties to prevent. Every prosecntion for libel
would lead to a disclosure of how far parties might pro-
ceed without being subject to the law, and in the case to
which he was referring every failure would prove how
great was the difficulty of the Government in ascertain-
ing the fact. (Hear, hear.) His noble and learned
friend had stated, and he (Lord Truro) believed the state-
ment to be perfectly true, that much that appeared to
have come from England, much that was supposed to
have been done in England, was merely surmise, with-
out any foundation, and the difficulty they had of de-
tecting the thing was that it had no existence. (Hear,
hear.) People had been led to suspect conspiracies be-
cause our neighbours complained of them by reason of
the evidence before them, and, perhaps, not unreasona-
bly. But if the papers dated London never emanated
from London, it would be impossible to get up evidence
to show a case of conspiracy here. Knowing the atten-
tion that had been paid to the subject by the Govern-
ment of which he had the honour of being a member,
and having no doubt that, great attention had been paid
to it by the late Government, he felt fully satisfied that
a mistake had been made by those who supposed that
such transactions had been going on in this country.
(Hear, hear.) He, therefore, contended that no new law
was necessary—that our present laws were sufficient to
give every security to foreign Governments which could
be given to our own Government. (Hear, hear.) He
was quite satisfied that the assurance given by the noble
earl would be considered satisfactory, because no human
being could doubt that any assurance coming from such
a quarter was given with the utmost possible good faith.
(Hear, hear.) It should not be forgotten that no coun-
try in the world had stronger wishes or stronger motives
to cultivate the good will and friendship of foreign Go-
vernments than England. It was, therefore, our own
interest to prevent anything occurring in this country to
alienate them or excite ill-will on their part. Our own
interests then, united with justice, policy, and humanity,
ought to be sufficient to afford them a reasonable secu-
rity. (Hear, hear.) If any such proceedings had taken
place here„ would not foreign Governments or their
agents have endeavoured to assist this country in detect-
ing the offenders ? Had they been able to arrive at any
one fact to implicate any individual. No such thing. If
foreign Governments could furnish any information to
enable the British Government to prosecute, let them de
so. Independently, however, of that, the Government
of this country were bound to use all due diligence.
But when they had reason to believe that no such con-
spiracies existed in London—that no such papers had
issued from London—when no person could afford the
slightest means of detection, it was a strong confirmation
of the impression that such things did not exist. He
hoped that what had now taken place would have a ten-
dency to cause the suspicions and apprehensions which
had been entertained to subside, and would give foreign
nations still greater confidence in the honour of the
British Government. (Hear, hear.)
The LORD CHANCELLOR said, although the con-
versation had been somewhat desultory and irregular,
and although the subject had been pretty nearly, or per-
haps he might say completely, exhausted, not only by the
able address of his noble friend who put the question,
but also by what had passed subsequently, he felt that
he should not be discharging his duty if he did not rise
merely for the purpose of excluding the notion that he
dissented from anything which had been said by any
of his noble and learned friends. He concurred with
them fully in the belief that legislation would be as ab.

I ..t,inany of the recommendations of lion deserved
he most serious attention, but be expected
now to refer to any portions of that petition which it
was possible might be affected by the measure the
Government proposed to introduce for the future go-
vernment of India, and he submitted to the noble lord
that the proper place for considering this petition was
in the committee of which he (Lord Monteagle) was a
member.

The petition was then ordered to be referred to the
committee on Indian affairs.

The select committee to whom the Registration of
Assurances Bill had been ordered to be referred was no-
minated, and their lordships adjourned at twenty minutes
past seven o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS—(YESTERDAY.)
The SPRAXER took the chair at 4 o'clock.
PRIVATE BILLS.
English and Australian Copper Company, United
Guarantee and Life Assurance Company, and West
Harptry Road Bills were read a second time.
Mr. EVANS presented petitions from Derbyshire
against the admission of Jews into Parliament, and
against the opening of the Crystal palace on Sundays.
Mr. WHITMORE presented a petition from a place
in Surrey, against the admission of Jews into Parlia-
ment.
Mr. GROGAN presented a petition from Dublin,
against the Maynooth grant.
Mr. HUT presented a pejition from Gateshead,
praying for the passing of some measure for the sup-
pression of juvenile delinquency.
Mr. DEEDES presented a petition from the working
men of Sheerness, against the opening of the Crystal
Palace on Sundays.
Mr. KINNAIRD presented a petition from Perth
against the Maynooth grant.
Mr. DUFFY presented a petition from the North
Ward of Dublin, praying for the abolition of the free-
men's franchise.
Mr. MITCHELL presented a petition from Bridport
in favour of the Parliamentary enfranchisement of Lon-
don University.
Mr. MILES presented a petition from the Rev. G. A.
Denison, archdeacon of Taunton, on the subject of na-
tional education.
Sir B. HALL presented a petition from Marylebone,
against copyhold tenure.
Mr. A. HASTIE presented a petition from the Cham-
ber of Commerce of Glasgow, praying that the Sheriffs'
Courts Bill be referred to a select committee.
Sir J. Y. BULLER presented a petition from Oak-
hampton, praying for a revision of the law of settlement.
Mr. ANKES presented a petition from the letter-
carriers of Dorchester, praying for relief.
Mr. W. 0. STANLEY reported in the house that
the committee on the Waterford county election had
agreed to a resolution declaring John Esmond, Esq.,
duly elected, and that they had altered the poll by strik-
ing off three names from the list of persons who had
voted, as not being duly qualified.

surd as it would be wicked, and that the law had ample
power to do all that the law could ever be enabled to do. Sir D. L. EVANS wished to ask a question of the
Government
The difficulty, as had already been said, was not in the onTHE AUSTRALIAN.
the subject of the mail bags entrusted
to the steam-ship Australian. It appeared, from general
administration of the law, but to find out the objects report, that 28 bags, containing several thousand
against whom it was to be administered. Did any such letters, were placed on board the Australian,
objects really exist in this country ? Foreign Govern- but, owing to that vessel having sprung a leak,
ments assumed the facts to be so, and reasoned against many, very many, of the letters were entirely
this Government not acting on such facts. Now it was saturated with water, while others were totally de-
not mere speculation that there was no such criminal stroyed. Now the object he had in view in asking this
proceeding. How could large bodies of men associate question was to ascertain whether any notification would
here for such purposes without that facility of the know- be made to the public on this subject which should ena-
ledge of our laws and liberties which would enable them ble them to know which letters had been destroyed, and
to evade the detective eye of the police ? How could which had been sent forward by the mail of yesterday.
they have gone on in that manner for two or three years Mr. WILSON said he had sent to the Post-office for
without the Government being able to detect them ? It the information, but he had not yet received it. Perhaps
was impossible. The truth was, that the notion once therefore the hon. member would repeat his question on
prevailing in Austria, or any other country on the con-
Monday.
tinent, that these schemes were manufactured in Lon- STRANGERS IN THE HOUSE.
don, it became the obvious policy of the persons acting Mr. MUNTZ gave notice that, on the Bth instant,
in Austria and those other countries to pretend to issue he should move for a select committee to inquire
their proclamations from London. He believed that to whether reporters and strangers might not be allowedt I
be the true solution of the difficulty with respect to nine- remain in the house during divisions, except on specia,
tenths of the matters supposed to be concocted here. occasions, and also to determine the time that ought to
Now, even if a law should be passed to enable the Go- be allowed between the taking of a division and the
vernment to investigate these matters in a different way, closing of the doors.
it would be useless, for no species of detection could de- METROPOLITAN SEWERS.
tect that which did not exist. Legislation, then, was out Mr. BUTLER wished to ask the Secretary of State
of the question. But was not the law at present amply for the Home Department—first, whether it is the inten-
sufficient for the purpose? His noble and learned friend tion of her Majesty's Government to introduce any mea-
had referred to a case which occurred some fifty years sure for the appointment of local commissioners of
ago—the prosecution of Peltier for a libel on the First sewers by the ratepayers of the metropolis ; and secondly,
Consul. Before that case there was another— an informa- whether it is the intention of her Majesty's Govern-
tion laid against he believed a native subject for a libel ment to introduce any measure for the purpose of ena-
upon the Emperor Paul. In these cases neither Lord El- bling the present commissioners of sewers to borrow
lenborough nor Lord Kenyon ever doubted that any pub- money on the security of the rates.
lication in this country which was levelled at a foreign Lord PALMERSTON said, with regard to the first
Government, so as to be calculated to excite the Govern- question asked by the hon. member, the course which he
ment into hostility with this country was punishable by should recommend the house to pursue in this important
the common law of the land. That was the principle there matter would depend very much upon the result of an
laid down, and then, if the publication of a libel was sub- enterprise or undertaking which had been planned by a
ject to such prosecution, a multi fortiori, the meeting to- private committee. The house was probably aware that
gether and the collecting of money for the carrying out of there was an association of capitalists who had either
such acts, must equally be liable to prosecution. (Hear, brought in or intended to bring in a bill to enable them
hear.) Therefore, supposing the case to exist, there was to construct two great arterial sewers under the town,
no doubt that the law was amply sufficient to meet it. beginning at some distance above London and ending
The law was not applicable to foreign refugees only. It some distance below London, one on each side of the
was just as applicable to any native-born subject. It Thames. This they proposed to construct out of their
was referable to everybody, and upon this ground, which own funds, as a commercial speculation, if the project
ought to be always kept in view—parties were liable to should be approved of by Parliament. Now, if that
be prosecuted, not merely because they might have scheme was sanctioned by the Legislature, it would ren-
libelled or insulted foreign sovereigns, but because that der unnecessary any loan from the commissioners for
act was calculated to excite hostilities to this country, or the purpose of constructing any great or general system
a breach of the peace between this country and foreign of sewers in the metropolis, and therefore the intentions
countries, and therefore it was provided that when such of the Government with regard to that branch of the
ecretary to
cases arose the prosecution should be conducted, not by subject must of course depend very much upon the re-
contemplation to
the foreign Government, but by the law officers of the suits of that bill in Parliament, and, if approved of,
Crown of this country, the law and peace of which might whether the scherhe which it authorised was found
occupieded
in
no
the
ek theran
transit of pra,c..
have been violated. It was the violation or probable ticable or not. (Hear.)
violation of the law which was the real ground of prose-
not
aware
employed
THE IRISH MAIL.
communications have
cntion. (Hear, hear.) He had made these few obser-
vations feeling it necessary to do so in the position Treasury if any arranements are
tin
malls
from
shoMrtrenFtßheEtiNmCellwia
which he had the honour to occupy, in order to show
that he entirely and cordially concurred in all that had London to Dublin, and if an
been stated to their lordships. (Hear, hear.) And he been.received from parties now y
would say, not only for himself, but for all those whom Mr. WILSON was in this duty ?
he had the honour to represent, that he concurred with cation had been made to the 'Pre that any communica-
his noble friends in nothing more than in the feelings of of the postal communicatio reasury upon the subject
detestation and abhorrence with which every one had lin by:the parties Who no nbetween London and Dub-
heard of the outrages committed, and which he believed the mails, but there 'w held the contract for carrying
were had be carrying
were most erroneously supposed to have been committed another Steam -packet been a communication made by
Coin by persons in this country. (Hear, hear.) arrangements, but not Pally, criticising the present
GOVERNMENT OF INDIA. with regard to a, new making any distinct proposition
Lord MONTEAGLE presented a petition, signed by that the Postman ter-G One.
He might state, however,
upwards of 2,400 native inhabitants connected with the reasonable time Nirly ireral was fully alive to the un-
presidency of Bombay, the signatures on the first sheet occupied, and the matter was now
the Treasury
perty to the amount of between two and three millions, nor the Post ffi , but as neither
ication with
It had not been prepared on the suggestion of any Euro- the contractors,.o ce had had any commun there was any
he could not that
in-
peans, but was entirely the act of the petitioners them- tention on the say
t of making any
selves who stated their wishes and opinions, and repro_ Chan in part of the Government .
senteci their own case in their own language• Theychange the system at the resent moment.
on Monday, he
• Mr. H. notice that,
fully recognised the benefits which they had d • ,HERBERT gave a letter, dated the 31st of
derived 1 wouldof the
from their connexion with England. They mope for a copy of - th secretarY frankly i January, 1853, and written by Sin Charles
pointed out the evils of the present law, and - ' •Dublin Q kni Company to .
in its administration, but they acknowledgedthe defects City of Steam-packet • t in the
n improvemen
that the 1 Tre Irelating to a pr°P-sed -
ve yan,
benignant character of the English race had transit
greatly to alleviate the evils of which the ad tended transit of the mails.
h CONVOCATION. .
position to
complain. The noble lord, after referring ad reason towas now in a
LL said he .
subjects discussed on the last renewal to the various Lord J. RUSSELL
t to him last night, by the right
Company's charter, said thatthe of the East India answer the question pu
for Droitwich, on the subject
Com • .
the member .
of
the country having been settled, mercial interests of hon. baronet
proceedings of Convocation. The prorogation
longer a mere question of British the question was no .of the different in its effect to the prorogation
the rights and the advance commerce, but ' ' involved Convocation was
o tion of Convocation was the
a 'ament. The pror ga
men no such term as
people of India. Fourteen d tof the interests of the
oftPofritlhe archbishop, and there weasn
When it broke
in the discussion of the wholeform of question of our Indian therefore, it always to
of the CrownP had in which it had b is session, judging from the way Pad, and the law officers ascer-
mine to and very m. een hitherto • did Iv- Prorogation,thatit had been customary, on the eve of a pro-
proceeding, not p tamed
a committee to watch over the in-
The excuse for the much to the number of those days. rogation, to appoint
or any neglect that the
ts of the Church. There could be no doubt, under
here seemed to be
people of India t atter. teres
of the legality of the
ook. no in the m t , these circumstances,it . course taken
great interest It was d •
a mitted that Parliament examined bu by the Upper ouse of Convocation ; and it was not
short time, and had
but urged
intention of Government take
to
that our evidence •m perfect,. or. the any steps upon
that to the Indians
tively little will it. (Hear, hear.)
it was of cornparl!,
etition was an
tance what was GOVERNMENT OF INDIA.
recommended. This p
who
answer to that. It showed that the, petitioners, sted in their Mr. BRIGHT said he had seen, in th
interested _ a ordinary
were faithful witnesses
, and deeply
i , many respects .
de- channels of communication to the public, that the noble
country, considered they resent law
on. This petition lord, the member for the City of London' festive and as requiring re-considerati
nd prayed their last night that it was the int • , announced
case, a intention of the Government
gave a representation a their. They stated the in- to bring in a bill for the
hea • government of India, whilst
lordships to give them a
hardships of the present system, i the committee was
conveniences and the
seemed to them the remedy, I could scacely believe sitting upon the subect. He
d what aeelli eve i,
Stl°•4 0 report tQ be] true but
and they suggeste- ---