The Sun.
London, England, 1854-06-14 00:00:00

S(Rear,) He knew that his hon. friend below him (Sir J. the ballot. He would give his cordial support to the mo-
helley) not long since got into sad disgrace for using the tion.
.., Word •.‘ sham." Awed by that example, ho (Lord D. Mr. FORSTER felt bound
eetior.eperllolnegthisilsatoicocnassiognaitnhset
Stuart) would be more cautious—(laughter)—but he yet vote which he gave last session.
would venture to say that he could not understand how bribery, from 1831 down to the prdeaeespentd upontime, it that
hasl resulted
- any Government, earnest in the cause of reform, could say in failure, and the house might
one word against the ballot. (Hear, hear.) Since the good would be accomplished
truonutilea timeslthey a
of thedoptedthreevobiaul.-
motion was last discussed in the house he had taken the lot In France, during
opportunity of speaking to several Americans upon the tion, the ballot triumtpharntipryopfersesvioanilseda,gaainudstifhliriohne.rymsenrad-
i
subject, and amongst others, to the late American Minister hers were sincere n their
' at this Court, a most distinguished and able man. (Hear.) intimidation at elections,
ontsh,
is they would not hesitatesettehonaetvsohoteef
The reply of the American Minister to his inquiries was for the introduction
of
voting an y
this, that although there might be different grades of opi- Sir J. FITZG
arising outEßALDhadwit of
nesseodpeson In
nion in the United States on the subject of the ballot, yet oppression in Ireland
he believed that if it were proposed to abolish it, every felt constrairinapdtopesd, uprapoarittrtehatee, motion.dandcoerced Thereerced thehy he
teleicr-
American would refuse to be a party to such a measure. tors were k
landlordsto their wishes, and that fact
to vote according
(Hear.) He thought as all former means of staying cor-
ruption and intimidation had failed, it was only just to
I
aon
the elector the protection of the ballot. Why, since
the country and to the house to give the ballot a trial. It
givehis election he had received letters from some of his con-
as un-English. He would not pretend to say whether it was endeavoured to set people against it by crying it down
statuents imploring him to intercede with their landlords
. ce
to prevent their being ejected, in consequence of their
was a most " gentlemanly" one. (Hear, hear, an
was English or not, but he certainly thought the practice a
baying voted in his favour, while in many places in Ire-
laugh.) Whenever any set of gentlemen were called upon
land the landlords had had recourse to the aid of the mi-
litary to compel electors to vote against their will. Surely,
Since last year a striking instance of this had occurred
to vote they invariably used the ballot. (Hear, hear) n
then, the best remedy for these abuses was the ballot,
n
• the Christ Church School election. There the candi.which he hoped this session to see carried.
dates were persons occupying the most dignified posi- Mr. BRIGHT, in supporting the motion, said, that bri-
tions—the one the chief magistrate of the city of London bery and intimidation, especially the latter, had greatly in-
and the other a prince of the royal
?blooodf. Did the creased of late, and that the difference between boroughs and
governors of the charity vote openly
course not, counties was, that in the former the electors had just in-
the nn-English, but nevertheless, almost
universal, dependence enough to insist on selling their votes,
owfhiinldeepinendtheencel,atatenrd tthheeylahnaddownnoetrsevreetnurnthedatthaemmoeurt.
practice of the ballot prevailed. (Hear,
was a passage in the address of Lord John hßeuasrs.e)ll tTohtehree
electors of the city of London which showed that the noble bers. He declaimed vehemently against the Ministerial
lord still remained an opponent of the ballot, and hence opponents of the ballot, and cited the names
mem-
the opposition of the Government was to be looked for on bers of the Administration as were in of Ruch
nclined to it as evi-
the present occasion. The noble lord boasted that there deuce in its favour. He repudiated the leadership of
there was no vote which he had not given openly. Of men who refused to the majority of that side of the house
course that must be so while the ballot was not the law of the smallest concession, and he declared that those who
the country. He (Lord D. Stuart) was not however quite deemed this question of vital importance ought to apprise
without a hope that the noble lord would yet have to give Lord John Russell and Lord Aberdeen that they must
a secret vote, for he trusted the day was not far distant take up the ballot and carry it, or else understand that
when the House of Commons would agree with him in they were not to rely on the support of the Liberal party.
thinkine that the ballot was the only way in which the Those who did not like this course were not doing their
voice of the people of this country could be fairly and duty to their constituents. After dilating upon the abso-
. f r elle 1
Mr-
lvR
heard.A
(Cheers.) lute necessity of the ballot, and contending that legislation
WARNER (whose
observations were almost totally would be ineffective to repress bribery or intimidation, he
' inaudible in she calla for a division) considered the ballot expressed his conviction that if the advocates of the ballot
afforded the only means of putting an end to the wide- resolved to have it, they could succeed by the means he
• spread and disgracethil corruption which prevailed amongst had pointed out.
the electors of this country. Mr. WHITESIDE, in opposing the motion, said that
Lord PALMERSTON.—Notwithstanding the impati- the ballot would lead to the destruction of constitutional
e
nce of the house (a laugh), especially in reference to a freedom. He urged that in Ireland, even if the ballot pro-
subject which has been so frequently discussed, I trust I tected the voter against the landlords, it would not pro-
may be permitted to state in a few words the grounds on
tect him against the priests. He considered that the con-
which I intend to give my vote against the motion of my stituency of the country was already large, intelligent,
hon. friend. I amnot at all insensible to the advantaee and upright enough to exercise the desirable influence.
. swhich would accrue from any system which would create Sir W. MOLES WORTH next rose to address the house,
an effectual remedy against intimidation and bribery, or and was received with loud cheers. The right. honourable
• against the exercise of undue influence over the electors, baronet said—My hon. friend the member for Manchester
• But, in the first place, my opinion is—and I must say,
• that it is an opinion not lightly formed, but of long stand- has appealed to me in courteous terms, and I cannot refrain
ing—that the ballot, which is proposed by my hon. friend from addressing the house on this subject. (Hear, hear.)
s •as a remedy, would utterly fail in accomplishing that se- Tho hon. and learned gentleman who last addressed the
- crecy upon which is founded all the results which he pro- house supposed that I had been converted by the speech of
. poses to effect. No man can persuade me in this country
that you can devise any means by which the people of this my noble friend near me. I listened to that speech as in
country will keep to themselves the political opinions duty bound, but though I always admire anything that
which they profess—that men would not tell to their comes from my noble friend, I must say Ido not think
. . friends and companions the political opinions by which his argument against the ballot was very convincing.
' they are animated, the preference which they have for (Cheers and laughter.) In fact, it was nothing more than
particular candidates ; and that on the day of election it
would not be known as well with the ballot as with open the stock argument, which we have heard over and over
voting the way in which the great majority of the electors again ad nauseant. (Hear.) Since the period when my
- had given their suffrages. (Hear, hear.) I say there is friend, Mr. Grote, made his celebrated motions in favour
no mechanical contrivance, no legislative enactment which of the ballot (one of which I had the honour of seconding
Parliament can devise which would prevent the opinions eighteen years ago), that question has been repeatedly and
- ' and votes of the great majority of electors from being
ably discussed in this house, and I think I must have
known under the ballot as under the present system
of open voting. We have been told a great deal about heard every argument urged that can be urged either for
the example of other countries. Ask any citizen of or against secret suffrage. The result has been to strengthen
the United States whether the ballot does produce my conviction that no measure ever can, or ever will be,
that secrecy which we are told is the essential really effectual in checking either bribery or intimidation
' foundation of all security. It is perfectly well known
which does not contain a provision that the votes of
that it accomplishes no such result—that the votes of men
- at elections in the United States are as well known, and electors shall be given in secret. (Hear, hear.) As I have
ns ostentatiously avowed, as in any part of the United never heard any argument of any force in refutation of
Kingdom—that men go to the poll with the ballot-ticket the position that the ballot is the only legislative measure
in their hats, and with coloured papers indicating the par-
which could put an end to intimidation, I will confine my
ticular candidate for whom they are going to vote. They
' hive the same blood in their veins which flows in ours, observations chiefly to thequestion of the efficacy of thebal.
They are too honest and too manly not to avow their opi- lot in arresting the progress of bribery. (Hear.) This is
anions--(hear., hear)—and to support the candidate with an important question at present, for every one admits that
whom they have identified themselves. Away, then, with bribery has prevailed of late to such an extent as to corn-
is I the nonsense—away with the delusion which prevails in promise the character of this house, and to cast some dis-
the public mind, and which is utterly inconsistent with all credit upon the representative institutions of this country.
known facts and all previous inferences—(hear, hear)—for (Hear). Both Houses of Parliament have, therefore, in
the great bulk of the electors there would be no secrecy— 'reply to the Speech from the Throne, declared that it is
they would scorn it. (Hear, hear.) It would be repug. necessary to take new and more effectual' precautions
leant to their personal feelings, and at variance with their against corrupt practices at elections. (Hear, hear.) Now,
phlitical predilections. With some, no doubt, it might he what ought those new and more effectual precautions to be?
secret. The shopkeeper, the tenant, or a few individuals Ought they to be analogous to the old ones, which,
who are under the apprehension that their vote would be after so many amendments have proved unsuccessful, or
productive of some injury to their own condition and for- ought they to be of a new and different description ? That
tune and hopes—these might take care in giving their is the question at issue between the friends and the oppo-
-votes
was to whom their vote was given. But what must be will ever prove effectual in checking bribery which &toes
the condition of that man during the interval between the not contain the ballot is founded upon an examination of
commencement of the canvass and the giving of the vote? the reasons why the laws which have been passed against
Would the ballot prevent him from being solicited by the bribery have failed. (Hear, hear.) That those laws have
. person who has influence over him to extort from him a failed both sides of this house admit, for both sides have
promise to give his vote? (Hear, hear.) It does not follow brought in a bill to amend those laws. (Hear.) Why
that because a vote is to be given by a twisted piece of have they failed ? I attribute their failure to the fact that
paper, put in a hole, that a man who thinks he can corn- they are merely penal enactments, the object of which is
mend the vote will not use that screw which my hon. to deter persons from giving or accepting bribes through
friend has dilated upon to obtain a promise from him. fear of the punishment to be inflicted in the event of de-
The promise may be given or Withheld ;ifit is given, and tection and conviction. Now, it• appears to me that a
a man votes according to his promise, of what use is the penal enactment can only fail from two causes—either from
,ballot? If he gives a promise, and breaks it afterwards; the inadequacy of the punishment threatened, or from the
. what then becomes of your argument as to the improve- difficulty of detecting and convicting the offender. (Rear.)
mint of the people? (Hear, hear.) You are, in fact, de- To which of those two causes is the failure of the laws
moralising the people, instead of raising them in the scale against bribery to be attributed ? Not, certainly, to the
, of moral and civilised men. (Rear, hear.) If he refuses„ inadequacy of the threatened punishments, for they are
Why should he refuse except he means to vote the other severe, consisting of pecuniary penalties varying from 5001.
way. No man will persuade me that the person who has to 1,000/., accompanied by disfranchisement or disqualifi-
power over an elector will not act towards him exactly as cation. If the severity of these punishments were to be
he does at present, if the elector has given a vote against the increased, the public would probably consider them to be
wishes of his controlling superior. The ballot in either excessive and out of proportion to the moral turpitude of
case would be a perfect nullity for secrecy or for protection. the offence; then judges and juries would become more
The first objection to the ballot is that it would not ac- unwilling to convict than they are at present, and the re-
. complish the purposes for which those who propose it put suit would be increased impunity. And, indeed, there is
• it forward for the acceptance of Parliament. I object reason to believe that the public consider that the punish-
to it because it would not succeed. In the next place, reents at present attached to giving or taking bribes are
I object to it because it might succeed—(hear, hear)— excessive, because, though hon. gentlemen are sometimes
and laughter.) The objection made to the Pretender was, unseated by committees of this house for bribery by their
that he was not the son of James. And then, when the agents, yet they are rarely convicted, and generally ac-
friend to whom such an objection was made said, "How quitted, of any knowledge of the bribery, and I do not
can you be so illiberal and unreasonable as to give currency remember any instance of an honourable member haying
to such a report ?" the other replied, " I object because he been convicted of bribery by a court of justice; yet I
is the son of James." (Hear, hear.) Now I object to the think there can be no reasonable doubt that, after every
ballot if it were to succeed, because I think secrecy in a general election, there must be many hon. members in this
matter such as that of voting for members of Parliament house who are morally guilty of bribery. (Hear, bean)
would be an entire change in the social habits of the people. I think the impunity which generally attends bribery
~ I think that you cannot debar them from those manifests- should be attributed to the difficulty of detecting the
tions of their political predilections and antipathies which offence and convicting the offender. That difficulty arises
, are vital elements of the British constitution. I think to from the peculiar nature of the offence of bribery, which
compel mankind to hold within their own bosom all is very different from that of the great majority of offences.
political preferences and opinions would l.e a great national Generally speaking, when an offence is committed, there
calamity. I think, if you succeed in making the ballot is some overt and patent act which manifestly inflicts sell-
. entirely secret, and that the result would be only known Bible wrong upon some person, as, for instance, when a
•by a majority of votes on the poll, you would lose a great man is robbed or assaulted ' • then the injured person knows
- element of political virtue. Now, sir, there is anotherob- that he is injured, feels that he is wronged, and is prompted
jection which I have to the ballot. 'think, if it succeeded by his knowledge and feelings to seek out the offender and.
' in accomplishing the purpose for which it was proposed, to bring him to justice. Not so when the offence of bri-
the ballot would be a great evil as bearing on the political bery is committed. In that offence there is no overt nor
organisation of this country. I think that upon principle partenn.
tactFwohritchhemoaffneinfeesetolyfihnriflhicetiy ssecnosnisbilsetswrsiomngpluypionn any as well as theory, that it is an error. The vote given at an Peso
election is, I must contend, a trust exercised by the elector transfer of money or money's worth from the briber to the
for the benefit of the country at large. It is a trust not bribed ; that act need only be known to the two persons
only within the limited range to which the vote extends ; concerned in it, who are not injured by it, but who have
but, even if that measure were carried, which I say is a mis- strong motives to conceal it. strong in propoi tion to the
nomer—if universal suffrage were carried—if everyman of a punishment threatened for it, and if they keep their corm-
•ertain age were to vote, still I should say that it is a trust. sal, the person injured by the bribery can never know that
f every man, woman, and child had the right of voting, he has been injured nor feel that he has been wronged.
ill it would be a trust which each individual would exer- (Hear, hear.) This essential difference between bribery
.4 e for the benefit of the nation at large. I hold that, ac- and the generality of offences was clearly pointed out by
1 ding to the spirit of the British constitution, every man my noble friend the Lord President when he introduced
fit 9 possess political rights and performs a political duty his bill to amend the laws reiatine to bribery, treating,
cit ht to exercise that right and perform that duty openly and undue influence at elections. My noble friend justly
cot ,e face of of his fellow-men. (Hear, hear.) My hon. remarked that it was a veep difficult task for the Legisla-
wh . 1 quoted a passage from a work of ahighly respectable ture effectually to arrest the progress of bribery. I believe
'dual, Mr. Grote, to show that these objections were that tho Legislature will never accomplish that task by
oug
in ti. ed upon a fallacy. With all due deference I must means of penal enacteetents alone. For we cannot by such
Viola et I never heard a passage containing more fallacies enactments so alter the nature of the offence of bribery as
-India. -at which my hon. friend has quoted. I think it is to render it less d'..fficult of detection, and if we were to
found• ' upon words, and not an argument addressed to endeavour to coemterbalance the hope of impunity arising
say tie on. I say it is a trust which every elector has from difficulty of detection by threats of the severest
than a .in when he votes for a representative to sit in punishment, our Draconic laws could not be enforced,
a play , e. And it appears to me to be most essential and our threats would prove vain. (Hear.) Therefore, if
m
the re
v man who has a political function to discharge we want to arrest the progress of bribery we must not rely
to perfos
-'sisal act to do, should discharge those fungi- only upon penal enactments to deter men from committing
this hout
-perform that act subject to the responsibility. that offence, but must try to combine with such enact-
that ever -perform
o them. Bat lam told that there is -no re- meats measures calculated to take away the motives to
and a re' Well, t
then, who is to judge ? Are the commit bribery, by diminishing its efficacy, and by run-
times and ,
deem the Whigs, and the Whigs the Tories ? daring it less difficult of detection. I think the ballot is
attaching
iil responsibility, and which every man of a measure of this description. My position is, that it
sponsibility.
suds—namely, to public opinion—to the good would diminish the efficacy of bribery, and put an end to
Tories to e°ll 3 neighbours, and of those with whom he every kind of positive bribery except that which is the
I say there i. _
, whose opinions he values, and which ex- least effectual and the least difficult of detection. (Hear,
sense underatt
and governing influence on the mind of hear.) To sustain this position, I must observe that
opinion of hi' • - .
in. And Ido not wish to deprive any positive bribery may be divided into three kinds, accord-
commonly acts
excises a great . eider to keep him in the right course. If ing to the period when the payment of the bribe is made.
every honest nu Id be so arranged that all the voters could The first kind is, when the bribe is paid before the elector
.pa.„ol of the • :f_ . without any man knowing how they votes, on his promising to vote for the bribing candidate,
secretevotlng"eva • . that you would lose an inestimable ad- whom I call A. The second kind is, when the bribe is paid
-vote set electives • • alive those feelings of political right after the elector has voted, and in consequence of his hay-
voted, I saitherl think are so essential to the well-being ing voted for candidate A. The third kind is, when the
vantage ha heePleelti the country. On what ground is all bribe is paid after the return of candidate A, and in con-
sod wrong In.,— say every man should be protected in sequence of his return. The first kind of bribery, namely,
an f
ana proiperetyssO ffrage. I say that if a man has a po- when the payment of the bribe is contingent only on the
-this argued 1,., Y.,_ ?IA .
of me tee intgh.t to make up his mind to suffer Promise of the corrupt elector, is rarely and never wil-
the exercise„ e., that het might arise from its discharge. By lingly practised by skilful and experienced agents, even
lities4 "g- thew, the . t you enable a voter to give his vote with open voting ;for when the bribe has been paid before-
eneenv,ecasoning th 2, • of members of this house give their hand, the briber has little security that the bribed will fulfil
the Bata? 'seem -should le ?oirst is. in all countries where secret his dishonourable engagement—(hear)—and not sell his
in secret, --9- • AA& 3 is established. In France it vote for a second bribe to the opposite party ;in fact, the
'ert • • it •
tee in Pe- t the dee\ sries where there is given to the briber has no security except such as may arise from a
votes oe gs
n,
voting in many con I„t° be the protection of secret ' feeling of false honour on the part of the bribed, or fear of
.ss anti ,s_ suppose( nyotang is observed in the leis- being reproached for not keeping his promise. (Hear.) It
is ev• esebse he . if justice r_equires it in the one is evident that the strength of these feelings would be very ,
electors the ssueeseereeT ° ' 4e other,
_Ti.le members of this much diminished and in many cases entirely destroyed, by
voting, " t • theroselv": i
bOaleusires it alse Inas\
tiYalabePaorilint_ical privileges, and secret suffrage. 'With the ballot corrupt electors would,
ease, it tecl interested ang eq
lettere
0 are have
out year of the consequences Au. .vniis upone the general when they could, take bribes from both sides, and then
he best Ike
.n, should not vote honestly according to their convictions. or corrupt .
hone tions e the aim judgment and electors have frequently- strong political opinions, for which
their fu,ne, interests' os to t• they are willing to make considerable pecuniary sacrifices;
weal and ow oeording
„ , with ',or ?
'eat grievance to be feeling
_ member / . _nsectioes eiee, ho has a propewr will tell me and it is a well-known fact that corrupt electors will often-
he has given just as m tad
of times vote fora popular candidate for a less bribe than for
' conscientious c" ii se the ~,
1 d,
at:et:es
to
~if displeasuretthish ertragout,sort
to, oeSif
aoi I much
f as we hoes° us •
am anti-popular one. (Hear.) I think, therefore, that with
to hiresel , if,,,,. of this kit ts g% secret voting the first kind of ribery, namely, paying be-
that a nieta - Janet, thin ,ye teafore the vote is given, will bersrely if ever practised, and
I tien f°r the (dear curl
t the next 'e-ecwho has n
stnabition, "Nu, -
s, A u ., when practised that the result will frequently be honest
h a case to be grossly - g• (Hear.) The second kind of bribery which I have
the trAuesina dlord- ll,
.°llthe facte being ascertained that the corrupt elector has
.3.l3sin which tradesmen
1 that they are menmentioned is when the payment of the bribe is contingent
his Ital.' the
Van °
• •ery Van ' oes I be- ass.
,customer or
.electlojvferosuo.
.Ini•-• • lee' wledge g • Teeny voted ter the
eifore—(laughter)--- "Of bribe bribing candidate. This ie the ordinary mode
as MY •nem a I believe in e vote
hat which should.' which Yee the most business-like and economical one, in
exaggerate . ,
victims of their
1 their own im r „ the least money gees"furthestfor mono
' I 'd yl3 On yipai
profess toga "tne been damagedtes t pu- when it is known that votes
.a havehave been actually given. their votes
of e loses from his (Freer.) The definition of t •
whose fortune 1
.0e upon door , his kind of bribery shows that.
and that the," P s.
placed at the ,_ a eee. t the accounts it must necessarily cease with open
rly be .
k that what ma T admit there last kind of bribery to which I voting. The third and
ze more proPe 1 I thin ds and the that the-payment of the bribe •
would call attention is where
e -•elence, In gener?, _
from his frien ~ . eh think t , . is contingent the
A ituoue, -
te he gains fr et
both. ea - I -a clamour the bribing candidate. It is e • upon return of
6' I aaPPan*3n between yets evident that this kind of
, ~ate fairly balanced • h Abuses prevail, „
ra
__ ,r. But brie, ley might be practised with secret es wellwith
s in which isa great deal . el
f tie out- votit ig, but with this most im rt • as open
' Isa The caa°' ' te, there llll3l/31,1011 G Po ant difference, that with
T e ;alma in the eggrega there is real fo
tated t,. 1 the open voting, in the event of the bribing candidate being
,s.: . eassee,about them than
house any 10nger...4 bave s .
objections te -To- esetui •red, only those
electors
mmalii be paid
whe had ful-
l" ' tick to, detein. the
ee the ballots .pis ff tire to I. he filled their promise of voting for candidate A, but with
esa linos)! my objections
would not rove e Mire
voter from t, . the ballot the electors would have to be paid, whether
'ballot -are these—that it we
itwould not protect the
it did Pr°' I they had performed their promises or not. It would s
duce secrecy—that
and
even if .
t a great, i
Mr first thoughts that this kind of bribery wonldeebe
consequences of his political bias t
world thereby laic ,
- -nost advantageous for a bribing candidate, for he
duce secrecy, I think that it
constitution. (Hear, /
hear. _, •
n.. +he,
-- i'mii *ei,ve to pay when the object of his wishes was
injury upon the British con ces.
ral
0.,
ted that the install 01 would
shed, and his return obtained. But with open
-J. WALMSLEY regret . mee this
SrSirfriend who m
ht be very it4"(7421P- .e rarely, if ever, practised; and the reason is quoted by by his hon.
titnidation quo
the noble lord. It mig . s . .
..,Atinz
°en "----' I It holds out fat less temptation to the
• had hadnoeffect upon
who were in an mete. vious on reflection.
the ordinary mode of bribery'. For in
bon noble lord and those
citing, but .
1 f the
m pt elector than , .
' ,well
or
'tion to contend in _favour of open v . . t 1 t 'paid f h' •-
r man. " c Til- • ode the corrup eec or _la .or aveng-
;:elet ~.P°B! ''' to thew° . ~
el had prayed nipsts oppreaseve . - . __see., the ordinary m
ndiclate A ; and as the J:ie.lnfetit le blehtliegent,
' il4lat syste
1 felt that tfie ballot should acev,iseteeee
onl'of • 713.te1l fbr. Ca the power'of 'the elebtrik Vie payment
It, was universe
Yh
f chise and that any extolls% . • upen'an acct within
rills) it, On the other hand, in the
ion of t e ran ,
ld b mere memory. . .
if the elector N
an eaten .
thout the ballot wou e .
thout is ce
the franchise wi
fore would be eetisfact4TY sin
No reform hill, there ,