The Sun.
London, England, 1853-05-06 00:00:00

LONDON AND EDINBURGH GAZETTE.

Mr. COWAN wished to ask the Secretary to the
Treasury, whether it is his intention to proceed further
with the bill for the consolidation of the London and
Edinburgh Gazettes, the second reading of which bill
now stand I for Thursday, the sth day of May ; also,
whether it is intended to adopt measures whereby the
charge for advertising in the Gazettes may be reduced
to the public.
Mr. WILSON raid the matter of this bill was still
under the consideration of the Government, with the
view of devising some plan by which the cost of the
paper and advertisements could be reduced.

CUSTOMS, &c., ACTS.
The house went pro forma into committee upon the
Customs Acts, and some amendments in the resolutions
respecting the importation of spirits for the Channel
Islands were agreed to.
ISSUE OF WRIT FOR BERWICK.

The order of the day having been read for resuming
the adjourned debate on the motion for issuing a writ
for Berwick-upon-Tweed in the room of Mr. Matthew
Forster and Mr. Stapleton, who had been unseated on
the ground of bribery,
Mr. HUME said there were no less than five ad-
journed debates respecting the issuing of writs for
boroughs, and he thought it would be a great advan-
tage to the country and save the time of the house if
they were all brought forward at one time. (Hear.)
Mr. PHINN considered that it was most desirable to
establish some principle or uniform rule for the issuing
of writs for boroughs at which committees had reported
bribery had existed, and the present occasion offered a
good opportunity for doing so, as the case of
Berwick gave a strong exemplification of the mode
of bribei'v adopted at those elections which
had come t efore election committees this session.
By taking these writs separately, the proceedings of the
house degenerated into party debates, instead of being
merely of a political character. He contended that the
house had not, by any recent acts of Parliament, abdi-
cated its common law jurisdiction, and it was, therefore,
competent, as the grand inquest of the nation, to
institute any further inquiry into elections it might
deem necessary, notwithstanding no recommenda-
tions had been made by select committees.
He thought the house ought to give its most earnest
attention to a state of things in which the forms of this
house were constantly made the means of extorting
money for stifling petitions. He was bound to say that
both sides of the house were implicated in corruption at
elections. With regard to this case, it would be ludicrous
to shut their eyes to the state of corruption existing at
Berwick-upon-Tweed. He believed it was quite as
notorious as St. Albans or Sudbury. In conduct=
ing the inquiry a list was given of sixteen per-
sons alleged to brieee been bribed by one member, and
of ten persons by the, other member ; but after the first
day's inquiry charges of treating had been brought so home
to one member, Mr. Stepleton, that on the next day he
withdrew all opposition to the petition ; and though no
further evidence was gone into with respect to the other
member, and the counsel had declared that, as
against him, it was a fighting petition, yet cases
of bribery against him had been incidentally proved
so clearly that he, as well as the other member,
was declared unseated. The agents on both sides were
examined as to a compromise having been effected, but
they expressly denied it. Of course, if the house allowed
private parties to prosecute their petitions at their own
expense, they must allow them to prosecute them in
their own way ; and it must be borne in mind that the
object of unsuccessful candidates petitioning was not only
to unseat their opponents, but also to keep themselves in
favour with the borougL', and not expose it too far. This
abrupt termination to the petition had caused great
surprise both in that house and out of doors, and there
was great suspicion that some corrupt practices had
influenced the withdrawal. Articles had appeared
in the Times and Daily News on the subject, hint-
ing pretty strongly that an offer had been made
to a certain sitting member against whom a peti-
tion had been presented, to withdraw the petition for
2,0001., and from an address which shortly afterwards
appeared in the Berwiele paper, there was no difficulty
in fixing the Berwick-on-Tweed case as the one
alluded to. He asked the house whether the perfect
notoriety of those proceedings was not of itself suffi-
cient to justify the issuing of a commission without
having the report of a ,committee to go by. (Hear, hear.)
He believed that a commission might be safely issued to
inquire into the state of every borough in the kingdom ;
for though he allowed that county members were in the
main elected without ally corrupt influence, yet there
was a mass of corruption existing in the boroughs, which
none but the most viglerous measures could deal with.
Mr. K. SEYMER said he was curious to know on
what groUnd the hon. and learned member intended to
justify the suspension of the writ, seeing that he had not
moved for the production of the evidence which was
taken before the committee. He now found that he
depended entirely upon articles in the Times, in the
Daily News, and in a Berwick newspaper, and also on
the notoriety of Berwick for corrupt practices. (Hear.)
Now, he (Mr. Seymer) must confess that he was not
aware of the existence of general corruption in the
borough. He believed that since lie had had a seat in
the house no ca'e of bribery had been proved against
that borough. He objected to the house entering into
the case of boroughs which were formerly corrupt,
but with respect to which new writs had since been
issued and new members elected.. There would be no
end to such inquiries, and, besides, he did not think they
would result in any good. The committee were unani-
mously of opinion that the writ should issue, and that
there was no occasion for the production of the evi-
dence. (Hear.) In no way did that evidence affect the
right of the borough \to return members to Parliament.
He could not help thinking that hon. members in asking
for these inquiries were actuated by political motives,
and that they wished to make out a strong case for an
extensive reform bill. He did not quarrel with thorn
for adopting that course ; but he at the same time thought
it his duty to stand up for the constitutional rights of
electors.
Sir F. THESIGER said the hon. and learned mem-
ber (Mr. Phinn) had made a very serious imputation
upon Mr. Hodgson, a gentleman who had for many
years been a member of the house, and he (Sir F.
Thesiger) thought it was but fairness and justice to him
to state what were the real circumstances connected
with the petition which he had presented against the
return for Berwick. In the article in the Times Mr.
Hodgson was described as an adventurer. From 1837
to 1847 Mr. Hodgson represented the town of Berwick-
on-Tweed ; and being then anxious to represent New-
castle-on-Tyne, he stood for it and was defeated. At
the election which took place last year, he wished to be
again returned for Berwick, and believed that parties
were so evenly balanced, that the Conservatives were en-
titled to one seat. He stated, therefore, that if the
liberals were determined to bring in two members, he
was ready to be put in nomination ; and when Mr.
Stapleton was brought forward along with Mr. Forster,
Mr. Hodgson commenced his canvass. The result of the
election was known. That treating and bribery pre-
vailed to a considerable extent the house was entitled
to conclude from the result of the inquiry before
the committee— (hear, hear) but Mr. Hodgson, on
the declaration of the poll, clearly intimated his
intention to petition against the return. He laid
the evidence before a baronet of liberal principles,
in a northern county, who told him that in his opinion,
the case was complete, and, with Mr. Hodgson's
concurrence, informed the agents of the sitting members
that a petition would undoubtedly be presented, with a
certainty of success. Mr. Hodgson's desire was to ob-
tain one of the seats for a Conservative candidate, and
he wished to accomplish this without presenting a peti-
tion, partly because a petition was a very expensive af-
fair, and partly because—and the experience of hon.
members would bear out this view—it was not a very
popular thing in a borough for a person to be petitioner.
(Hear.) He came to town prepared to prosecute the
petition, having, as be informed him, no less than 90
witnesses. Under these circumstances he saw a gentle-
man of great authority on the other side of the house, by
whose advice he sought an interview with Mr. Forster.
He first proposed to Mr. Forster that both the sitting
members should vacate their seats. (Laughter.) His next
proposal was that one of them should retire, and that no
opposition should be offered to a Conservative candidate.
It happened that there was some disunion between the
sitting members which rendered any arrangement of
that sort utterly impracticable. Mr. Forster, however,
referred Mr. Hodgson to his son, whom, he said, he
would find a man of honour. Mr. Hodgson stated that
on his calling upon Mr. Forster, jun., that gentleman
said to him, " There are four walls to this room—
(laughter)—l propose that neither you nor I shall repeat
anything that passes between us. Your father distinctly
states that he wishes not to know what takes place at
our interview, and, therefore if you please, it shall be
strictly confidential ;" to which Mr. Forster agreed.
Yet in the article in the Times, copied in the Berwick
newspaper, was found a statement which could not have
been. received from any other person than Mr. Forster,
jun. (Hear.) It was there stated that Mr. Hodgson
offered to make with the young man a bet which must
terminate in his own favour, so that if the transaction
should ever be called in question it might be "a colour-
able answer." Now, as confidence had been so far be-
trayed, and such a character had been given to the
communications which took place, he thought Mr.
Hodgson was justified in himself stating what really
took place, and what foundation there was for the asser-
tion that a wager was offered to be laid with Mr. Forster,
jun., as the condition of his father's withdrawing. Mr.
Hodgson said, " Suppose I proceed with my petition
only against Mr. Stapleton, with your father's guarantee
that there shall be no opposition to my election for Ber-
wick upon the first vacancy (as was understood). Upon
this, Mr. Forster, jun., said, " What security Could you
have if any such guarantee were given ?' " Why,"
said Mr. Hodgson, "You may enter into a penalty in
case I am not returned. ' (Hear, hear, and cheers.) He
had made it a condition of his stating the case that no-
thing should be omitted. (Hear, hear.) All he ventured
to say on this matter was, that it was very different
from offering to lay a bet as a colour for a bribe of
2,000/. ; all that was sought by Mr. Hodgson being
merely a guarantee to secure his election. Mr. Forster,
jun., observed that a bond of that kind would be illegal ;
upon which Mr. Hodgson said, " Well, then, I'll lay
you a bet, or do the thing in any other way you like."
(Laughter.) He made no comment, but merely stated
the circumstances. No arrangement was made with
Mr. Forster, and the petition was still pending. (Hear.)
When the committee met, on the very first day of the
inquiry, as they bad heard from the chairman, a case of
treating was completely established against Mr. Staple-
ton. Evidence was given against Mr. Forster which
certainly placed his seat in considerable jeopardy. In
this state of things a communication was made on the
part of Mr. Forster, declaring that if no further evidence
were offered against him, he would, undertake that no
opposition should be offered to the election of a conser-
vative candidate for Berwick. Mr. Hodgson, having
been put to considerable expense, replied that he would

not accept of the seat without the costs. Accord-
ingly the offer was rejected. In the course of the same
day an honourable friend of his (Sir P. Thesiger) ex-
pressed to Mr. Hodgson his regret that some arrange-
ment had not been come to ; but Mr. Hodgson stated
distinctly that the seat and the costs were his terms, and
to no other terms would he submit. When it was
stated that Mr. Stapleton would abandon the defence
of his seat, Mr. Hodgson desired that notice should
be given to him that an application would be made
to the committee for costs against him, as had been
previously intimated in his letter. When the committee
met on the second day, Mr. Hodgson communicated
with his counsel as to the grounds on which they were
to press, for costs, when, to his surprise, he was informed
that an arrangement had been made that Mr. Forster
should pay the costs of the petition, that neither he nor
his friends should oppose the return of a Conservative
candidate for Berwick, that no further evidence should
be produced before the committee—(hear)—and what-
ever might be the decision with regard to Mr. Forster,
this arrangement was to hold good. It was proved to
the satisfaction of the committee that there had been no
compromise between the parties. Looking at all these
circumstances, he thought the house would feel great
hesitation in deciding that the writ ought not to issue.
There were no grounds, as it appeared to him, on which
the writ could be suspended with a view to a further in-
quiry. The act of Parliament said that if the house
directed an inquiry, this was to have no effect upon the
issuing of the writ, and although it might be desirable
to appoint a select committee to inquire into the grounds
of a charge against a gentleman who bad been a member
of that house—(hear, hear)—to suspend the writ would
in his judgment be unjust towards the constituency of
Berwick.
Mr. WHITESIDE wished to state, as a member of
the committee, that all the attorneys who were examined
swore that there was no compromise.
The house then divided—
For the original motion 2lB
For the amendment 6O

Majority for the m0ti0n.......... 158
THE ROTHERHITHE SEIZURE.

On the motion for going into committee of ways and

means,

Mr. DUNCOMBE rose and said—ln pursuance of the
notice which appears in the journals of the house, I have
now to ask the noble loid the Secretary of State for the
Home Department whether, in consequence of two infor.
mations of a political character having been laid against
Wm. Hale, inventor and manufacturer of the patent war-
rocket, and the first of such informations having terminated
in the said patentee (Wm. Hale) being adjudged to pay
certain penalties to the Crown, it is the intention of her
Majesty's Government to advise the Crown to proceed with
the second information, laid under the provisions of a law
passed during the reign of William 111., 1697, intituled
" An act to prevent the throwing or firing of squibs, ser-
pents, and other fireworks." Now, sir, in asking this ques-
tion, I will state as shortly as possible not only my reasons
for asking it, but exactly how the case stands at the pre-
sent moment as regards the defendant Hale ; and I think I
shall be able to prove to the house that so absurd and ridi-
culous a prosecution as the present was never instituted by
any British Government on political grounds. (Hear.) That
this prosecution was instituted for political reasons and on
political grounds, I think the noble lord the Secretary of
State for the Home Department has already admitted in
his place in this house; but if there be any doubt about it,
you have only to look at the leading articles which have
appeared in the organ of the Government, and certain ex-
tracts from which I will take the liberty of reading to the
house. (Hear.) The first seizure of Mr. William Hale's
property was made on the 14th of last month, and on the
following day, the 15th, an article on the subject appeared
in the Times. It commenced as follows :—" The British
Government has not waited long for an opportunity of
proving to all the world the sincerity of its resolution to
put the law rigorously in force against such foreign refu-
gees residing in this country as have abused the tolerant
hospitality of England by carrying on conspiracies against
other states. We believe that we are correctly informed
when we state that, upon intelligence received by the Se-
cretary of State for the Home Department and the Commis-
sioners of Police for the Metropolis, active measures have
been taken to substantiate the charges which have long
been vaguely preferred against M. Kossuth and his adhe-
rents. Upon this legal information a house in the occupa-
tion of M. Kossuth was searched yesterday morning at an
early hour by the competent authorities, acting, we pre-
sume, under the Secretary of State's warrant, and the
result of this investiption was the discovery of a large
store of arms, ammunition, and materials of war, which
may be the stock in trade of a political incendiary, but
certainly form no part of the household goods of a private
gentleman living in pacific retirement. Indeed, there is
reason to believe that these preparations have been going
on upon a scale entirely inconsistent with the notion of
any mere private speculation, and must have had in view
hostilities or insurrectionary movements of a very destruc-
tive character. We know not how long the attention of the
Home-office has been directed to the suspicious proceed-
ings of the persons engaged in these lawless undertakings,
but Lord Palmerston has shown his usual energy and skill
in tracing the evil to its root ; and it is extremely satisfac-
tory that the Minister who has been so often identified with
these adventurers by the ignorance or passion of foreign
Governments should now have it in his power to show, by
conspicuous example, that the good order of society and
the friendly relations of this country with foreign States are
not to be violoted with impunityunder his administration."
Now, sir, I believe M. Kossuth has complained of having
been libelled by this article, but in my opinion the noble
lord the Secretary of State for the Home Department has
more reason to complain, for I think he has been libelled
by the Times. (Hear, hear.) It is only two years ago since
this house, after a long and interesting debate, passed a
a resolution in approbation of the noble lord's foreign
policy. I voted in favour of that resolution, because I
thought the noble lord had taken an independent part in
relation to foreign countries, and I am much surprised,
therefore, to find the Times eulogising him for conduct
quite the reverse. Still I retain my favourable opinion of
the noble lord, and, whatever the Times may say, I think
the noble lord is not "the Minister of Austria." (Hear.)
In another article the Times says that the proceedings
against the Halo. aro not for paltry penalties, but are for
other State purposes. The exact words of the journalist
are :—" It would be absurd to suppose that the active and
energetic measures taken in this case, under the immediate
direction of the Government, and by the Solicitor to the
Treasury, are solely intended to recover this paltry penalty.
We are confident that there is considerably more to be
disclosed than is yet before the public. if we are not
strangely misinformed, there are still important wit-
nesses who have not been examined on [this charge against
Mr. Hale, for ho only figures in the capacity of agent and
manufacturer of rockets for other parties." Well, that is
the opinion of the Times, but it has been confirmed by the
speeches that have.been made at Bow-street on the part of
the Government. Now, sir, as I have said, Mr. Hale has
had two informations laid against him. The first informa-
tion was brought under what is called the Gunpowder Act
of George 111. Under that act he was adjudged to pay 2s.
a lb. for 571bs. of a composition which was found on his
premises at Rotherhithe, but which he maintains was not
gunpowder, and which I believe no man ever thought was
gunpower until it came to Bow-street. He had 2571b5. of
this substance in his possession, but he was acknowledged
to be a trader in gunpowder, and as traders are entitled to
have 2001bs. on their premises, he was sentenced to pay 2s.
a pound only on the remaining 571bs. But the truth is,
Mr. Hale had carried on his works, had made his shells and
rockets, close to Woolwich Arsenal, without let or hind-
rance, for a long period, and only a comparatively short
time has elapsed since he removed to Rotherhitlao, and so
came within the provisions of the Gunpowder Act ; for I
understand the act prohibits any person from keeping more
than 2001bs. of gunpowder within three miles of the city
of London, in case, I presume, my hon. colleague the Lord
Mayor and the corporation of the city should be blown up.
(A laugh.) Under these circumstances Mr. Hale was con-
demned, though I won't say it did not appear very clear
whether the composition found on his premises was gun-
powder or not. Witnesses were produced on both sides.
The witness brought forward by Mr. Hale, an experienced
chemist, said it was nonsense to suppose the composition
was gunpowder ; but the witness produced on the part of
the Government, said it was gunpowder ; while the firm
with whom Mr. Hale was in the habit of dealing declared
it was not supposed to be gunpowder by the trade. Poor
Mr. Henry, the magistrate, was completely bewildered ;
but he went home, took down his " Encyclopaedia Britan-
nica," and looked to see what gunpowder really was. (A
laugh.) Three days afterwards he re-appears on the bench
at Bow-street, does not say a single word about the evi-
dence which had been given by competent witnesses, but
says—" I have found in the Encyclopaedia Britannica'
that this after all is gunpowder, because our ancestors for-
merly used gunpowder in an ungranulated state, and
the granulation of gunpowder is only an invention of
modern times." And so he granulated Mr. Hale—(a
laugh)—adjudging him to pay a penalty of Si. 14s.
Such was the end of State prosecution number one.
(Laughter.) Let us now proceed to number two.
Upon the last occasion referred to, Mr. Bodkin, the coun-
sel for the Crown, informed the magistrate that there was
another information to which his attention would by-and-
by be directed, and as to which, circumstances would be
detailed which he would not now anticipate, but which
would impart another character to these transactions.
Everybody knew that the meaning of this was, that it was
intended to identify M. Kossuth with the proceedings and
transactions of Mr. Hale, that a great explosion was to
take place on the part of? the Government, and that cir-
custances were to be disclosed, showing that there had
been a dreadful conspiracy between M. Kossuth and Mr.
Hale, and that it was their intention to blow up every
Government in Europe which they might happen not to
like. (A laugh.) The act under which information No.
2 was laid, was an act passed in the 9th year of William
111., 1697, and one which, I will venture to say, has been
a complete dead letter since within a very few years after
its passing ; and what I complain of, and what the people
of England complain of, is, that a State prosecution should
be carried on under such an Act of Parliament as this. It
is intituled "An act to prevent the throwing or firing of
squibs, serpents, and other fire works," and its object, as
stated in the preamble, was to avert the danger to the
lives, limbs, and eyes of the lieges, which had been found
to result from the practice which then prevailed of letting
off fireworks in the open air. The act provides that the
manufacture or sale of any rockets, squibs, serpents, or
other fireworks, or of cases or moulds for the same, on
and after the 25th of March, 1698, by any person of what
age, sex, degree, or quality soever, shall be punished by
the infliction of a penalty of 5/. for each offence; but
thi
act Militia,
uN re awr t
sir,
r 4 T
in there is a saving clause at the end allowing the Board of
Ordnance to make rockets, and the Artillery Company,
thes
there i n
mB
making
kna Bands, to
et
rockets
0 enmok manufacture f
aba
ntc
dt
atu
sr
hea
el
11l andst,h
has
sae
beenu( fire-
works.erguil ;
Mr.
ty of violationa
Hale himself
of the
admits
it. B
w everybody
if he has
bodywilladhmeeint
that
guilty of a violation of the law, so has every person who
squibs, serpents,
has made a rocket, so have those manufacture rockets,
and crackers for Vauxhall and Cremorne
ask who has ever thought cif
—(a laugh)—and so
cution under this act ?
the magistrate, appears to liahveearb.
matches in this country.has every manufacturer of lucifer
(Hear, hear, and laughter.) I
(Rearinstituting a political prose-
and glad to get )ereindWo2ilyhit'a.m3elHrd.e Ffo
fe
heardnrtheY
whole transaction,
the evidence of certain witnesses, among
among whom were three
or four Hungarians—no
n&—political exiles,
who had been objects ol not'
charity in W,
(Hear, eyes of M. Kossuth,
and who had received assistance at his hands. One of
them, it appears from his own statement,
had enjoyed
English hospitality for a period of four months
havingr months on the
treadmill in Maidstone Gaol.
and a laugh.)
The others were Germans, and the wholeformerly connected with the artillery, and been
being sup-