The Sun.
London, England, 1853-03-01 00:00:00

SUPPLY.

The house then went into a committee of supply.
Mr. MONSELL, whom it was utterly impossible to
follow, rose to submit the Ordnance estimates for the en-
suing year. He was quite sure that though the estimates
which had been laid on the table of the house exhibited
an increase over those of last year, he could show to the
perfect satisfaction of honourable members that the addi-
tional expenditure was quite unavoidable. Before pro-
ceeding further, he must call attention to the fact, that
almost every recommendation of the committee which sat
in 1849 had now been carried into effect, even to the com-

bination of the duties of storekeeper and barrackmaster.
His right honourable friend the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer had already stated to the house what were the
intentions of the Government with respect to the West
Indian colonies, and their conclusions entirely coincided
with the opinions of the committee. With regard to the
subject of stores, he thought he should be able to show to
his hon. friend that the recommendation of the commit-
tee had been carried out, and with the most beneficial
effect. In the estimates for the current year, vote No. 1,
on the subject of the Ordnance military corps, showed an
increase over the corresponding vote of last year of 2,9601.
—an increase ascribable to the greater number of men to
be recruited than was the case last year. It was right for
him, however, to state that the addition which was to be
made to the artillery consisted entirely of additions made
to the different companies, and that no increased expendi-
ture would take place either on account of commissioned
or non-commissioned officers. With regard to the state of
the artillery department, he believed he might state that
it was never in a more efficient state than at the present
moment. He knew that many of those eminent persons
who had visited this country on the occasion of the fune-
ral of the late Duke of Wellington had taken occasion;
since their return to their own countries, to express the
highest opinion of the organisation of our artillery, and
of its merits as a most effective force. (Hear, hear.) The•
improvements which his right hon. friend the Secretary
at War had alluded to on Friday night with regard to
the army department, had been carried out to a consider-
able extent also in the artillery. The schools which had
been created were working most efficiently; and besides the
ordinary schools there was one at Woolwich in which geo-
metry, mensuration, and a theoretical knowledge of forti-
fication, besides other matters connected with the duty of
an artilleryman, were taught; and at the present moment
there were 24 non-commissioned officers attending the
school. There was also a library- at Woolwich for the use
of the gunners and the non-commissioned officers, which
contained 3,099 volumes, and to which there were 226 sub-
scribers. In the gunners' library there were nearly 4,000
volumes, with 698 subscribers, and both together received
of public money only 71/. With regard to the general
health of the artillery, he was happy to be able to state to
the committee that within the last few years there had been
a considerable improvement in this respect. In the year
1849-50 there had been 17/ deaths for every 1,000; in 1850-51,
164; but in the present year there were only 12i deaths. With
regard to corporal punishment, there had been also a re-
markable diminution in the number of cases within the last
few years. In 1849-50, there were, amongst 10,000 men,
23 cases in which corporal punishment was inflicted ; in
1850-51, 17 cases amongst 11,000 men ; but in 1852 there
only were five cases amongst 12,000 troops. As regarded
the professional education of artillerymen, which was a
subject on which the officers at Woolwich felt very anxious,
it was certainly quite true that the men had no proper
ground on which to practice firing; and though additional
accommodation had been afforded them at Sheerness and,
elsewhere, it was still far too limited. He thought it right
to state this matter to the house in order to call forth their
opinions especially with regard to it. Under vote No. 2
there was an excess of 71,5281., which was caused by hav-
ing to find forage for 1,000 more horses than last year, and
that at a very increased price ; together with 50,0001. for
the clothing of the militia, against nothing last year.
Under the next vote, that for the Ordnance-office, there
was presented an increase of 1,611/. over the sum voted
last year. The next vote was on account of the various
establishments in the United Kingdom and the colonies,
and it showed an excess of 3,4441. over the vote of last
year. There was as excess of 16,0911. under vote 5, which
was caused in great measure by the additional works which
were going on at Woolwich, though there was a small
decrease in the expenditure for the same objects in the
colonies, and that decrease was ascribable to the cause
alluded to by his right hon. friend the Chancellor of
the Exchequer when speaking of the Rideau Canal. Great
dissatisfaction had been expressed by the committee of
1849 at the manner in which obsolete and unserviceable
stores accumulated. Returns, however, had been ordered
to be sent in, and the result was that a great check had
been put on the old practice. On. examination of the
stores at Gibraltar, Quebec, Portsmouth, and Dublin, he
found that there were scarcely any old stores remaining, so
well had the new system worked. Vote 7 showed an excess
of 246,6271. over that of last year. and was chiefly the re-
sult of the additional outlay on fortifications. One of the
principal items in the account was on account of the forti-
fications at our great naval arsenals, which were not other-
wise safe from the desultory attacks of an enemy ; and to
the expenditure under this head, therefore, he did not
think any hon. gentleman would object. Perhaps it was
as well to inform the house that the average of our expen,
di ture since the year 1815 amounted only to 13,0001. a
year ; and since 1846, when the subject began to be more
attended to, it was at the rate of 32,0001. a year, though
he (Mr. Monsell) believed that in foreign countries in-
finitely larger sums were spent upon a single work. The
amount necessary for the fortifying of the arsenals was
57,4021.; for other works, 60,0001.; and the whole charges
under this head reached to 236,3511. The sum of 10,0001.
was rendered necessary for the enlargement and improve-
meat of Wellington Barracks, consequent upon the expira-
tion of the lease of the barracks in Portman-street. 7,8481.
was required for the store-houses at the Tower. The
store-houses there having been burned down in 1841, the
necessity for rebuilding them increased every year. There
was at present a great quantity of valuable stores suffering
damage for the want of those store-houses. 3,0261. was
required for rebuilding the barracks which had been
burned in Quebec. 8,9511. for rebuilding the barracks at
Halifax. It was necessary to expend a considerable sum
of money in order to put the fortifications throughout the
kingdom in a proper state. If oven a comparatively
trifling sum had been expended annually for this object
there would be no occasion whatever to make application
now for so largo a sum. For the scientific branch of the
service there world be an excess of 19,3061. over the votes
of last year. There was great skill and energy now en-
listed in the management of the surveys. The excess in
the expense of the surveys beyond that of last year was
8,0001. There was an increase also at the Chatham estab-
lishment. 3,3111. was reptired for the Royal Military
Academy for the several non-commissioned officers. The
non-effective was less than that of last year by 1,141/.
The hon. gentleman then concluded by apologising to the
house for his inability to render himself as intelligible to
the committee as he would have wished, from the circum-
stance of his then suffering under a severe cold.
The CHAIRMAN then put the question that 17,590
men—commissioned and non-commissioned, including en=
gineere, sappers and miners, artillery, &c.—compose the
Ordnance military corp.
Mr. MIME complained of the increased amount of the
estimates beyond those of previous years, It was idle for
the country to expect any reduction of taxation deo long as
the Government were permitted to expend such enormous
sums in what he considered uselees Works. The house
was now called upon to vete the sum of 3,053,5671. for the
Ordnance estimates which was a considerable increase
upon past years. From the year 1829 to 1833 these esti-
mates were only 1,700,0001. From 1824 to 1838,1,200,0001.
From 1839 to 1843, 1,800,0001. From 1844 to 1848,
2,400,0001. He protested against this system of increasing
the estimates without any substantial cause. He thought
that the best course they could take would be to put the
whole vote at once, and not to go through the mockery of
considering the different items. He objected to throwing
away the public money upon worthless brick and mortar.
For one place they were endeavouring to protect, they
were leaving 500 unprotected. It was riot by brick and
mortar the country was to be protected, but by measures
of a much more rational and less expensive a character.
Sir G. PECHELL hoped that the committee would
take the advice of the hon. member for Montrose, and vote
the whole sum at once. Many of their fortifications were
only objects of ridicule, particularly those in the neigh-
bourhood of the Isle of Wight. If they wanted to have
the country really defended, as it ought to be, it must be
by the instrumentality of an efficient navy, and not through
brick and mortar. In 1849, when there was a demand for
an increase in warlike stores, be asked for a return of the
number of guns lying in the different arsenals of the
country. After considerable delay and difficulty he pro-
ev4red that information, and he then discovered that they
Ited f.. 1,961 serviceable guns in the arsenals of Woolwich,
Ckatham, Portsmouth, Devonport, and Hull. In fact,
they had in those four places 23,963 cannon large and
small. He observed an item of 8,0001 for gunpowder.
He supposed that this increased demand tor gunpowder
was in consequence of the quantity expended in firing over
the graves of military men. There were also 50,0001. for
great coats for the militia ; also 41,0001. for accoutrements,
colours &c., for the militia. (Hear, hear.) They had
100,0001. called for more than when the militia vote passed
the house. He had no objection to their defensive mea-
sures in the Isle of Alderney, as they appeared to be so
much afraid of the port of Cherbourg, but he altogether
objected to the expenditure of the public money for forti-
fications above Rochester Bridge and at the Isle of Wight.
Colonel NORTH asked the hon. and gallant officer whe-
ther the report which was prevalent was true, namely,
that the reason why the roll in Sussex for the militia force
was not filled, was owing to what he must call, if the,
statement be correct, the extraordinary and improper con-
duct en the part of the large proprietors in that county,
who held out the threat to young men anxious to serve in
the militia, that if they did join that force they would
never under such circumstances give them employment ?
(Rear.)
Sir G. PECHELL said the hon. and gallant colonel
asked him to account for -what was done by the land
-
s:Tners in a country 100 miles long and 41 miles wide. Now, he had heard it stated that there were 100,000 men
ready to march in that country to Manchester or to Bir.