The Sun.
London, England, 1854-05-23 00:00:00

portance. I hope the attention of the committee will be
fixed oil the matter really at issue. (Hear.) I have shown
you that the tefril of the motion are utterly unworthy of
the occasion. (Cheers.) I believe it is a dwindled and
emasculated form of some broader proposition which was
PreVionsly entertained—(hear)—that sornesfeeks ago there
was cmirigie enough to frame a design of endeatouring to
tempt the House Of Commons out of the path of self-denial '
and self-command, into that eat 7 and downward course of
immediate creation of stock ; but then it was seen in what
manner the House of Commons answered the invitation of
the Government to grant new taxes, it was then thought
a motion in favour of a loan a little too much for the
House of Commons generally to admit or endure—(cheers)
—that it was better to disguise and soften it ; to perhaps
present it—(l am greatly obliged to the hon. member for
Buckinghamshire for the phrase he has supplied to-night)
—not with its face and features fully displayed to the
gaze and admiration of the world—but that it was better
to make the amendment only commit the house to a loan
in masquerade. (Loud cheers.) A loan in masquerade is
what we are here to discuss. It is not because the Ex-
chequer-bonds are preferred to Exchequer-bills, for we
have used the alternative that the Government may em-
ploy either which appears to be recommended by con-
veuience. It is not because the demand is unreason-
able—it is not because we can safety dispense with the
meuey, or the power to raise the money. It is bscause we
do not not raise a loan, and it is because upon a loan the
humble leader of the landed interest is set. (Loud cheers.)
I am unwilling, even in closing the remarks I have made
to the committee to enter at large—and it is quite un-
necessary for me to enter at large on the discussion of the
polity of creation of stock at this period. (Hear.) I ven-
ture to think that the manifestation of the feeling of the
house on former evenings has been quite sufficient to
show that it will not accede either to an open or to a co-
vert proposal for such a purpose. (Heat, hear, and cheers.)
Sir, I have been told by the right hon. gentleman that I
have indulged in unworthy sneers at Mr. Pitt, and the
right hon. gentleman says that Mr. Pitt is revered by his
countrymen, and received from them an eleemosynary
tomb. I have claimed, with respect to Mr. Pitt, as I have
claimed with respect to Mr. Fox, or any other historical
personage, that freedom of criticism which belongs to our
place in this house—which it is the duty of the represen-
tatives of the people to exercise when they are endeavour-
ing to draw wisdom from the experience of former times,
with reference to modern emergencies. (Loud cheers.)
Sir, it was in that spirit that I referred to the errors of
Mr. Pitt. If I used one word which seemed like a sneer
at that great man I deeply regret it. It was the keenness
I freely grant, with which I was set of showing what ap
peered to me the immense importance of the proposition
for which I sought to obtain the practical assent of the
house—the enormous dangers into which Mr. Pitt, not
only as an individual, but acting, as I said, as the repre-
sentative of a misguided people, unfortunately led the
country. (Cheers ) I stated at thatl period—l now state
again most explicitly—l will not enter ,nto the question
whether the creation of loans is to be treated as the indi-
vidual error of Mr. Pitt, or the error of public sentiment.
I will freely grant to you that has nothing to do with the
argument. It was not Mr. Pitt depraving and perverting
the public sentiment, but Mr. Pitt, as I believe, giving
way to public sentiment. That, too feeble for the emer-
gency of the time, he entered on a policy for the creation
of stock, the ruinous and disastrous consequences of which
we are still feeling. (Cheers.) This may be stated in one
sentence. Let us only recollect that if Mr. Pitt had made
in 1793 the efforts which he matte in 1798, and in sub-
sequent years, the effect would have been this—the
country would have paid heavy war taxes six or seven
years sooner, and therefore six or seven years
longer, and the debt at present would have been less
by something like 500,00J,0001. of money. (Hear,
hear, and cheers.) And was I not justified in making re-
ference to those errors ? It was not for the purpose of dwel-
ling on those errors that I referred to them, but for the
purpose of drawing a broad contrast between the errors of
the first years of the war and the noble and gallant efforts
made to redeem them. (Loud cheers.) It was for the
purpose of fixing, as far as I could presume to fix, the
attention of the committee on the change of policy of
which Mr. Pitt early perceived the necessity, and which
he devoted the last years of his life and the last re-
mains of his strength to bring into activity and opera-
tion. (Loud cheers.) That was the motive with which I
referred to Mr. Pitt. I referred to the error for the purpo -e
of drawing the attention of the house to the mode in which
that error was at a subsequent period retrieved. But the
right bon. gen tletnan worships Mr. Pitt he lauds Mr. Pitt;
he exalts him to the skies. For what purpose? That we
may imitate his virtues—that we may come down like he
did, and endeavour to inspire the British Parliament, as it
is our duty to do so as far as our power extends, with sound
views of the exigencies of the moment? No. But in order
to induce us to imitate the errors of Mr. Pitt—(cheers and
counter cheers)—and to repeat those errors in the light of
experience, and without the excuses which may very fairly
be pleaded on the part of those who originally fell into
them- (Cheers.) If the conduct of the right hon. gentle-
man is that which I have a right to suppose, and I think I
am right in saying the meaning of this motion is that there
ought to be an immediate creation of stock—if that is his
recommendation, and he wishes to support it by reference
to the memory of Hr. Pitt, it reminds tne of a scene which
once took place in this house, when the memory and autho-
rity of Mr. Pitt were quoted against the principle of com-
mercial freedom. There is a particular instance in which
Mr. Pitt, acting under the pressure of circumstances, did
a Copt a measure hostile to that principle, and his authority
was quoted in the House of Commons. Mr. Canning, his
follower, who said his political allegiance lay buried in his
grave, resented that reference as an insult to Mr. Pitt. He
was not satisfied with compliments as a great Minister,
when used as an inlucerneut and seduction to commit that
Minister's error. Mr. Canning said :—" Those who allude
to the memory of Mr. Pitt, while they wish to draw us
into an imitation aids errors, remind me of those barbar-
ous nations who profess to worship the sun in the heavens,
who adopt him for their deity, but indifferent, when in the
blaze of meridian glory, when he falls into eclipse, come with
their cymbals and their dances to adore him." (Loud
cheers.) That is the view which Mr. Canning took
of those who pronounced eulogies on Mr. Pitt,
and said that Mr. Pitt was a great man and
had an eleemosynary tomb, in order to conceal that which
was steadily the policy of Mr. Pitt in his closing years, and
to induce the repetition of the errors of the earlier portion
of the war—errors which he saw, of which he le peuted,
which he used, and induced others to use, the most tre-
mendous, efforts to redeem. What did Mr. ritt do when
he found the country in the state into which it was come—
sinking deeper and deeper into the mire by the lavish use
of that national credit to which the hon. gentleman has re-
ferred? He did as we do. He came down to the House of
Commons. The hon. member for Huntingdon said he hada
great respect for the House of Commons, but at least there
were some things which the House of Commons could not
do, and I think he said the House of Commons could not
induce a man to buy an article which he did not want or
he did not like. I fully grant we have not the thumb-
screw, as in former times, for the pupose, according to
the language of religious persecution, not of punishing
those who were unwilling to believe anything, but to
make them willing to believe. The house has no command
of such instruments as those, but I am silly enough to
believe the votes of this house have a considerable effect in
inducing men to buy to-morrow what they will not buy
to-day—to give a price to-morrow which they would
not give yesterday. (Cheers.) And I rather think ex-
perience is on my side, because whereas fourteen or fifteen
clays ago people would give no more than 871. for an
annuity of 1001, bearing interest at 3 per cent. Consols,
within three or four days they will give 891. and some-
thing more, for that very self-s one annuity. (Hear,
hear.) Anti I am really apt to believe that certain
votes of this house have a great deal to do in bring-
ing about that change. (Loud cheers.) But if you are
satisfied with the experimental effect of votes of the House
of Commons; I am still weak enough to believe that,
if it be the determination of the House of Commons that
the financial measures for raising new taxes shall be
passed into law, they will be passed into law, and
that no inconsiderable effect will be produced by that
decision of Parliamenton gentlemen who deal in the particu-
lar commodity of money in the city of London—(cheers)—
gentlemen with respect to whom, permit me to say, if I
did drop a word which seemed to savour of disrespect, I
deeply regret it, because I hold it is not for any one in
this house to find fault with any class of his fellow coun-
trymen, least of all is it consistent with duty or propriety
in a Minister of the Crown. (Hear, hear, and cheers.)
As Mr. Pitt made his appeal to the House of Commons,
so we appeal to the House of Commons; as Mr. Pitt
placed before the House of Commons his vote for its sup-
port in the system which he proposed for raising the ne-
cessary means from the country, and thereby obviating.,
as far as possible, the necessity for resorting to stock, so
we at the first moment of the war make our proposal to
the House of Commons, entreating them to assist and
support us in such an effort as may be reasonably ex-
pected from the wealth and power of the country to
raise the means towards meeting the expenses of the
year. (Hear, hear, and cheers.) The right honourable
gentleman has referred to what was done in the year 1847,
and I shall make a remark upon that subject, for it
touches upon one point that I have not yet touched upon
in the speech of the right hon. gentleman. He says in the
year 1847 a loan was raised by Consols, and he asks what
would bey. ur condition now if you had raised that loan by
Exchequer bonds in 1847. It is quite unnecessary to enter into
a comparison of the circumstances that dictated one course
to my right hon. friend in the year 1847, and that dictates
another course at the present moment. (Hear.) The
cases are entirely different ; that was an isolated opera-
tion ; this is a period at which unfortunately we have
before us the prospect of a continuing and extraordinary
demand upon the public purse. (Hear.) The hon. mem-
ber for Huntingdon objects, according to the terms of his
motion, that we bind ourselves to pay the Exchequer-
bonds in a particular year ; and I ask is that doctrine
sustainable by a reference to practice of experience? It is
the very thing we do in the case of Exchequer bills. (Hear,
hear.) But with this diffetence, that we do it for five
times the amount, and that in a few days it may be neces-
sary to call in nine millions of Exchequer-bills, and re-
issue Exchequer-bills for the same amount if necessary.
(Hear,hear.)
o pay off,
But the hon. gentleman having felt that he
got into a particular difficulty drew a distinction between
promising and promising positively to pay off.
(Cheers, and laughter.) I am unable to appreciate the value
of the distinction certainly ; and I do not know that the
hon. gentleman will attach much more value to a note which
says, "I promise to pay," than to a note which says, " I
promise. positively to pay." (Laughter.) He says that in
the Exchequer-bonds we say we promise positively to pay,
and that in the Exchequer-bills we only say we promise to pay;
but that is not the fact; we make a promise to pay in the
case of Exchequer-bonds as we do in the case of Exchequer-
hills ; the whole question of the renewal on agiven day, if it
shall be thought fit to renew on a given day, or to liqui-
date them, and the rate of interest to be paid in case we
shall think fit to renew them. The hon. member for the
Wick Burgles has stated to-night that railway companies
in this country are renewing their debentures every year
to the extent of fourteen millions ; and will any hon. mem-
ber attempt to justify a vote in favour of amendment on
the ground that we cannot renew two millions of Exche-
quer-bonds on the public credit? (Cheers.) No, sir; and
we may make an appeal again to the House of Commons on
the ground on which we stood at first. (Cheers.) As to the
matt i
f he wishes
of retrospect
for
h
t whicho t
ep
opinion
iu of the House
o honourable
gentleman
refers, of
Commons on these matters, let him raise the issue in plain
and intelligible terms. (Hear.) What we have now got
before us is, the question of raising money for the expendi-
ture of war in anticipation of the taxes ; and until the
proceeds of those taxes are received we make our appeal
to the House cf Commons, with the full confidence that
the House of Commons will answer it. (Cheers.) I join
cordially in the sentiment expressed by the hon. member
for Huntingdon; I—and I may say the same on the part
of my colleagues—have no other desire but that the com-
mittee shall vote on this motion as they think shall be
most for the advantage of their country. (Loud cheers,
amidst which the right hon. gentleman resumed his seat.)
Mr. T. BARING promised to say only a few words
in reply, but felt that the right honourable gentleman
had put questions to him which he could not evade.
(Hear, - hear.) . The first. question the right honourable
gentleman asked him, Do you object to the amount of