The Sun.
London, England, 1838-02-15 00:00:00

RAND JURY PRESENTMENTS (IRELAND)

BILL.

Mr. MA HONY said that as the Government had taken
this Bill out of his hands, he willingly resigned it to them.
Lord Al ORPETH said that he did not pledge himself to
the precise Bill of the Hon. Gentleman ; but as the Grand
Jury system in Ireland required, he thought, some alteration,
he would bring in a Bill on the part of the Government, on
the subject.
Mr. MAHON? then, with consent of the House, with-
drew his Bill.

CUSTODY OF INFANTS BILL.
Ur. Sergeant TA LFOURD moved the second reading
Or the Custody of Infants' Bill.
Sir E. SUGDEN said, that strongly objecting, as he
did, to the principle of this Bill, he should move as an amend-
ment that the Bill be read a second time on that day six
Months. If the present Bill should pass into a law, it would
give the right of access of a woman divorced from her husband
to the:r children, a principle which he did not think that
House ought to sanction. There were many other bad effeets
Which he thought the Bill would have, and which determined
him to press his amendment.
Mr. VERNON SMITH hoped the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman would not press his amendments, as the objections
he had made to it were all of such a nature as might be
amended in Committee. The Bill appeared to him to be
drawn up with the greatest moderation possible.
Sir E. SUGDEN would not press his amendment, but would
take the sense of the House upon the Bill, if not altered in
tho meantime, on the third reading.
Mr. WAKLE Y hoped the Hon. and Learned Sergeant
would not admit of any compromise whatever with respect to
this Bill, which was looked upon with the greatest satisfaction
out of doors.

Mr. Sergeant TA LFOURD expressed his willingness to
give every possible consideration to the suggestions of his
Right Hon. Friend, but would not enter into any compromise
whatever. With respect to the principle of the Bill, his only
regret was that it did not go far enough.
The Bill was then read a second time.
The Common Fields Inclosure Bill went through a Com-
mittee.

The Exchequer Bills Bill and the Transfer of Aids Bil
were read a second time.

Colonel SEALE postponed until Tuesday next the two
notices he had upon the paper.
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and
the House adjourned, at a Quarter to Nine o'Clock.

SPIRIT OF THE PUBLIC JOURNALS

Mr. Grote's motion for the adoption of the Ballot in the
election of Members of Parliament comes on for discussion
this evening. We, of course, know what the result will be,
and the only point of doubt is the proportion which the mino-
rity will bear to the majority. What the Tories, by way of
odium, call " secret voting," and what unquestionably merits
so to be called, for secret voting is the very principle and
foundation of the Ballot, has been growing for some years in
public estimation, but especially since the last election, when
coercion, intimidation, and influence were employed more or
less in nearly every place where there was a contest ; and the
question is, whether giving voters the means of exercising
their franchise in secret will not greatly diminish, if it do not
entirely put an end to, the evil. The opponents of the Ballot
Contend in limine that secrecy in voting is impossible, Why ?
They answer that electors cannot keep their own counsel—that
they will be sure to tell for which candidate they have polled.
Ninety-nine may not care whether the fact is or is not known ;
but if the hundredth man can prevent it from going beyond his
own breast, supposing him to be determined to conceal
it, the object is accomplished. The hundredth man may be
the poor tenant. at-will or the small shopkeeper, who is at the
mercy of his powerful landlord or hid rich customer, and his
living may depend upon being able to keep his vote unknown.
Therefore the question resolves itself into this—ls it possible
to adopt any mechanical connivance so fitted to the purpose
that the elector may give his suffrage conscientiously, and, if
he thinks fit, defy the world to discover which way he has
voted ? This will only be denied by such as are driven to a
desperate extremity for an argument on which to found their
resistance, and we undertake that they shall be confuted by a
house-carpenter. Mr. Grote has shown that it is easily prac-
ticable, and for ourselves we say that if it were not, we should
be ready at once to give up the question. We should consi-
der the question fatal; it would no longer be " secret voting,"
but voting that may or may not be secret according to circum-
stances; and the opponents of the system, in denominating it
" secret voting," admit ex vi terminorum that discovery can-
not be made. It either is or is not secret voting :if it be, that
is all we want ; and if it be not, we confess the whole
project futile. It may be contended that some good would
be done by partial secrecy. Partial secrecy is no secrecy ; it
is a contradiction in terms ; or admitting for a moment what
is meant by those who use the words, we say that the secrecy
Which depends upon the indifference, carelessness, or want of
Watchfulness in an adversary is not worth having : it is worse
than the present model of polling, for it would have such
evils as some people argue belong to secret voting, with none
of its unquestionable advantages. Besides, the negligence of
the opposite party in such a case is the last thing to be
reckoned upon. Not a few who allow that a mechanical
Contrivance may be resorted to, which will defeat all the eager
Prying
of the most lynx-eyed enemy at an election, still argue
I"st, although secrecy is possible, it is to the highest degree
111 Probable. Take it so : that is all we want: we ask no
more
than a method of giving the suffrage by which an
elector may conceal his vote if he be resolved to do
So, How many may avail themselves of this strict se-
crecy, we know not • but we insist upon it that the
electors of the United Kingdom ought to have the choice of
protection if they think they need it. We are not surprised
!bat large landed proprietors and others o f wealth and in-
'l,eenae should be opposed to the Ballot ; but the more
strongly they resist its adoption the more convinced arc we
that they arc afraid it will undermine their power, and we
Contend that fur this very reason it ought to be made part
of the law of the land. If we saw the Tories indifferent on
the subject—if they were lukewarm in their opposition, or
were, in a manner, silently consenting parties to the experi-
tuent of the Ballot, we own that we might take the alarm,
and begin to fancy that we were under a delusion as to its
effects in liberating constituencies from their thraldom. We
should be apprehensive that the Tories believed that the Ballot
Would rather play their game than defeat it. But
when we find, year after year, that they resist it with
all their energies—that they display towards it the
111°st deadly animosity—that they denounced it in every
ssib'e way—and that with unabating industry they
furbish up all sorts of arguments, good, bad, and indif-
trarent, plausible, pitiable, or desperate, against it, we can
9t belt, being persuaded that, independently of our own con-
tletions from facts and reasoning, this very circumstance forms
" Most excellent ground for strenuously supporting it.
But—(say the opponents of the Ballot) what a useless
Piece of machinery is this What do you expect to gain by
even if you obtain secrecy? You talk of coercion and
jiueltY, but will they not be practised just as much after the
allot as before it ?" We answer, no. Prone as the Tories
174 Y be to compel their vassals to vote, or to punish them for
yore °t voting the right way—little as they may scrle o the
of justice or humanity to inflict ver sseanceup for din sobe-
-I?°ce. they cannot do it upon bare suspicion, especially when
involves, as it inevitably will, whole classes in the imaginary
guilt. The most malignant viliian ever means(' by the imagi-
nation of a poet exclaims—
" But I for mere suspicion in that kind
Will do as if for surety."
~Isnd do the opponents of the Ballot mean to argue that the
t °ries would act upon the same principle, and adopt the same
rule of conduct ? But admitting that they would, " their
fears won't let them," and their selfish interests stand in their
W0)'• Whatever may have been done in Ireland, in this
131.1ntry landlords cannot drive out whole bodies of tenantry
becausee they have voted according to their consciences ; and
Iv Public opinion did not restrain them, their private purses
,941 d. A good landlord, after the introduction of the Ballot,
01 still preserve his influence among his dependents—with
him property will have its true and legitimate weight : he may
depend upon the suffrages of his tenants whenever a higher
duty does not govern them, and when it does he will be the
13
ast to visit them with consequences. It is the main excel-
'Nee of the Ballot that it protects the voter from the bad
ken's vengeance, and when once it is established we shall
°°ll hear no more of intimidation before an election, or of suf-
fering after it. Let the comparative numbers on Mr. Grote's
nx:otior, to-night be what they may, sure we are that ere long
H
e shall see it carried, and carried by such a majority that the
°use of Lords will not be able to resist the chanitge. The
ea`'iluntre calls for it—voters, where they dare speak out, in
stif quarters and in all circumstances, require it as a necessary
etieguard ; and of late numerous meetings have been held, at
'eh petitions to Parliament have been agreed to, demanding
eljtietet,lle Reform Bill shall thus be rendered effectual for its
their ts• If Members of the House of Commons could see
this interests real. interests aright, they would not hesitate to make
reel concession, which in a pecuniary point of view would ef-
ine a most important saving, would do away with all the
sasigal expenses of elections, render the disgusting toil of a
sbi:e,ss needless, and spare the enormous and often ungove!•n-
thu)st consequent upon election petitions. We say nothi.ng
Pia demoralization of the people caused by the coiruption
fur
under the existing system —Morning Chronicle.
thes readers will find in another column the annual report of
e "nunercial Steam-packet Company. This Company, as
te;tPu'blic are aware, was established about three years since,
reduse°.iinich for the purpose of realising great profits, as to
tesseic' by competition, the enormous charges made by the
Hors, s Plying upon the lines where it commenced its opera-
extry It is, therefore, peculiarly gratifying to perceive the
(e)tr;"rdinary success which has crowned the exertions of the
PrPe‘anY• At first it started with but too vessels, and the
Co "` was held in the utmost contempt. The vessels of the
des, nV, however, now amount to 14, two now vessels are or-
tol6, to be built or purchased, which will increase the number
aatetiutfure the Ist April, and before the end of the year it is con-
tivera 'Y expected that the Company will have no less than
esstY vessels in full employment. A dividend of six per
tolsowas declared at the meeting, but it was unanimously re-
otttiae that this sum should be appropriated to the increased
ep,rY which the contemplated extension of the Company's
that atinns will render necessary. It is also satisfactory to add
tvita arrangements have been entere 1 into by the Company
eisn '"e Swedish Government for the transmission of the
(Ist: between Hull and Gottenburg ; and such is the confi-
it de now reposed in the stability of the Company, that were
Ilinebe er of mid expedient, instead of two, to add six more to the
•
dlts vessels, its shareholders would find no diXmilty
is,
4'39bt in the prudence of increasing their capital. —Morn-
quertistr.

IL% ,t)rd Glenel, is labouring under slight indisposition.
hia `4°4lshi
umci P has'''not been able yesterday or today to attend
41 duties at the Colonial-office.—Standard.

IMPORTANT FROM CANADA.

FOUR DAYS LATER FROM NEW YORK.
(From the New York Gazette of the 24th.)

BUFFALO, JAN. 16.—The encampment on Navy Island, as I told ycu,
broke up the night before last, the arms, artillery, &c., belonging to this
state having been returned. The Militia force was concentrated at the
crossing from Grand Island to the mainland on our shore, at which
point the Marshal, under the direction of the district attorney, arrested
the Chief of the Patriot forces, Van Rensselaer. He was taken to But
fa'o, and instantly bailed, and left here again at twelve o'clock to join
his command, which, report says, were then straggling through the
country, on their way to a point up the lake, where, it is said, trans-
portation is in readiness to embark them for the Canada shore, in the
direction of Detroit, about 750 strong. Colonel Hughes was in corn.
mand at Chippewa. M`Nab returned back.
The British flag was yesterday hoisted on Navy Island.

An extract from the Lewistown Telegraph, contains the following,
in relation to the evacuation of Navy Island:—
" General Van Renssellaer and the Patriots seem at length to have
come Yankea over M`Nah and his Royal boys. It seams that fur seve-
ral days the island had been in an inadequate state of defence ; all
the fleldpieces, small arms, &c., with the exception of the State pro_
party and forty muskets, having left on Thursday last, and gone Dun.
combeward.

" Ever since that time encroachments might have been made on
Mackenzie's Government,' with impunity by her Majesty's forces, if
they had known a thing or two.' Our informant says, that the army
was disbanded this morning at two o'clock, and started for Whitehaven,
on Grand Island, from which place they were to cross over to the Arne.
rican side, and then,—we don't know what—but it is presumed that
there is a principle of cohersion among them that will ultimately pro-
duce re-union.

" It is said, that before they were disbanded a conference was held to
aseertain the numbers who wished to be excused from further duty.
About twenty chose to go home. All the others were determined to
unite their fortunes with the destinies of Van Renssellaer and 11PRIenzie.
What those destinies will be, time will soon disclose."
Burpar.o, JAN. 17.—Many rumours are afloat, among them the
following:-
1. That fresh disturbances have broken out near Toronto ; that that
city had been again alarmed, and that the Patriots and Loyalists have
come again in contact, in which the latter had been obliged to retreat
until met and supported by a detachment of artillery, when the Patriots
were in turn compelled to fly. This report comes through various
sources, and with so little variation, as to render it probable there is
some foundation for it.

(From the Toronto Patriot, Jsn. 11.)
This day, at five o'clock, his Excellency comedown to the House, and
gave the Royal Assent to the Bill for suspending the Habeas Corpus
Act, and the Bill for trying foreigners taken in arms by court-martial.
COMMERCIAL, JAN. 23 —The transactions in Exchange on London
were very limited, owing to the scarcity of money. Good bills were
offered at 109 14 , and cotion and mercantile bills at 149. Treasury notes
fell off , and arc 100: .

LOSS OF THE STEAMER "CAROLINE"-UNITED

STATES' NEUTRALITY.

Upper Canada, district of Niagara, to wit :—George Nolop, of the
village of Brantford in the district of Gore, yeoman, deposeth and saith,
that he is a British subject—that on the 2Sth of this present month, he
went over on business to the United States—that on arriving at Fort
Schlosser in the United States, he was taken prisoner by a body of
armed men, who said they were citizens of the United States ; that he
was put under guard and detained for about twenty-four hours ; that he,
this deponent, repeatedly applied to be liberated, but was told by the
guard that they would not let any damned Tory go ; that while he was
a prisoner at Fort Schlosser, he saw a six-pounder, belonging, as the
guard informed him, to the United States, taken from the fort, put on
board the steam boat Caroline, and taken to Navy Island—that while
he was a prisoner he heard the men belonging to the boat state that the
boat belonged to the patriots, and that she was to be employed in
taking stores, guns, and other necessaries to Navy Island, for the
use of the Patriot army—that while deponent was a prisoner some
armed men came up to the tavern where he was, and said that the
Tories had got the boat—that the men turned out and fired upon
the persons they called Tories—that deponent heard from his guard
that there were about thirty armed men on board the boat—that during
the confusion he made his escape—that when the men of the boat
went down to man her, they marched in regular order—that in the
guard room, in the tavern where he was confined, there was a cask
filled with six-pound shot, and two casks of grape and canister, and
the men belonging to the steam-boat said that shot had been taken
out of the arsenal at Buffalo, and was to be sent to the Patriots—that
one of the crew told the deponent after the steam-boat had been taken
that he was sentry on the deck when the attack was made, and de.
manded the countersign several times from the attacking party, but
they did not give it. GEORGE NOLOP.
Sworn before me, at Chippewa, this 20th day of December, 1837,
GEO.. RYKERT, J. P.