The Sun.
London, England, 1853-05-20 00:00:00

lation, bad as that was, but of the immense quantity
of dust which was allowed to remain constantly in
suspension in the atmosphere of the house, and which
being constantly inhaled by honourable members, was
found to be very prejudicial to health. If a sheet of wet
paper was placed upon the wall, in an hour it became like
a sheet of sand paper, so great was the amount of dust.
And so intolerable was the evil to those who sat night
after night there for the whole of the session, that he had
felt himself constrained to give notice of a specific motion
to the effect that that house should meet in some other
building for the despatch of business until a remedy had
been provided.
Mr. BAILLIE was afraid that the evil of which the hon.
member for Manchester complained was only one of the
inevitable results of the present mode of ventilation adopted
in that house.
The vote was then agreed to.
The next vote proposed was a sum of 10,000/. to defray
the expense of providing accommodation for the Comptroller
of the Stationery-office.
In answer to a question from Mr. WILLIAMS,
Mr. WILSON stated that he belived a further vote of
10,0001., in addition to the present sum, would be required
to finish the alterations now being made in the Stationery-
office.
The vote was then agreed to.
The next vote was a sum not exceeding 91,279/. for
works connected with the Harbour of Refuge at Holy-
head.

,ncreasing, but in a very decreased ratio compared to the
debt. In the year 1837, the revenue was 13,000,0001.,
and had now incrersed to 19,000,0001. The debt
had increased sevenfold, but the revenue only two-and-
a-half-fold. They had had no information either upon
the judicial administration in India, which, according to
all accounts, was most miserable. There was no educa-
tion whatever required for the office of a judge, but it
was the general principle to make a judge who was good
for nothing else, or rather unfit for everything else. It
was a sort of refuge for the destitute. This was a state
of things which required investigation. The subject of
education was one of great importance, and the returns
which had been laid before the house showed a
frightful state of destitution. (Hear, hear.) It was,
he contended, essential to the well-being of India
that the people should be actively employed in the ad-
ministration of its affairs. The true reason why
they were not so employed was that the pa-
tronage of the country should be retained in the
I hands of the East India Company. All the great stimu-
lants to action on the minds of the Indian population
were dwarfed by this mode of procedure. The fitness of
the East Indians themselves was, he contended, a subject
fully deserving inquiry. On the subject of works it ap-
peared that the East India Company had been blind both
to their own interest and that of the population over
whom they ruled. They had no information as to the
political relations of the East India Company with the
neighbouring states, whether subsidised, independents or
protected. These were subjects deeply affecting the
interests of India, and he contended that in every one of
them a case for inquiry had been made out. Moreover, it
was incumbent on the East India Company to stand up
and contradict these charges by evidence, and before this
had been done the house would not be justified in con-
senting to any further legislation on the subject.
Sir C. WOOD said that it certainly was the opinion
of the Government that they ought to legislate on this
subject in the course of the present session, and as at the
proper time it would be his duty to go at some length
into the various topics which had been touched upon by
the hon. gentleman, he should not occupy the time of
the house by discussing them on the present occasion.
The house then went into
COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.
A sum of 119,3201. was granted for the maintenance and
repair of royal palaces and public buildings.
A sum of 62,7361. was proposed to be granted for main-
taining and keeping in repair the royal parks, public gar-
dens, &c., under the management of the Commissioners of
Majesty's Works and Public Buildings.
Lord D. STUART wished to call the attention of his
right hon. friend the First Commissioner of Works (Sir
W. Molesworth) to the Royal Botanical Gardens and Plea-
sure-grounds at Kew. The numbers of visitors to these
gardens in 1841 had been only 9,134 ; in 1851 they had
been 327,900; and last year they were 231,000. Very few
of the working classes, however, were able to take advan-
tage of the gardens ; and the reason was this—that they
were not open on Sundays. He thought it peculiarly de-
sirable that hard-working men, who were shut up in close
alleys and unwholesome dwellings during the whole of
the week, should have an opportunity- afforded them of
visiting so delightful a place of recreation on a Sunday.
(Hear, hear.)
Sir W. MOLESWORTH said that he had given direc-
tions on the subject, and that the gardens had been opened
on Sunday last. (Hear, hear.)
Lord D. STUART was exceedingly happy to hear that
announcement. He wished to know whether it was in-
tended that that part of the gardens wl•ich was called the
Pleasure Grounds should be open for the future on Sun-
days throughout the whole of the year? With regard to
Richmond Park, he begged to call the attention of his right
honourable friend to the fact that there was a considerable
portion of it, between Roehampton and Robin Hood-gates
and Lord Beshorough's villa, which was not open to the
public. He hoped that the entire park would be imme-
diately thrown open.
Mr. MALINS would suggest to the right hon. gentleman
tnlintryg.n.R.a exlist;sed stliope 'mat a new carriage-
road would shortly be made from Victoria-gate to Albert-
gate, Hyde Park. Additional accommodation was very
much needed.
Lord D. STUART concurred in the opinion that a new
carriage road was required.
Sir W. MOLES WORTH observed that there was no
impossibility in the way of complying with the suggestion,
but there were strong objections to making the road. It
would be very undesirable that the park should be open at
night.
Mr. H. DRUMMOND wished to call the attention of
the Government to the fact that the works which were
executed for her Majesty and the public cost about twice
as much as those that were done for private persons.
(Hear.) All the Government builders made enormous pro-
fits out of their contracts.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS said he desired to make a remark
on the vote for the royal palaces, which had been agreed
to in his absence. It was time for the House of Commons
to exercise some control over the royal palaces. No less
than 580,000/. had been expended since the commencement
of the present reign on palaces in the occupation of her
Majesty, and 400,0001. had been laid out during the same
time on other palaces, which were occupied by members of
the aristocracy, who were in a condition of semi-pauperism.
(A laugh.) He thought that the persons who lived in these
palaces should, at all events, pay the expense of keeping
them in repair. He found that since the accession of her
Majesty 1,000,0001. had been expended on the royal parks,
and that being the case, he thought that the public were
entitled to the freest use and enjoyment of them. He
wished to know from the right hon. gentleman the First
Commissioner of Works what her Majesty's Government
intended to do with Battersea-park ? A sum of nearly
200,0001. had been laid out in the purchase of three hun-
dred acres of laud on the banks of the Thames for the pur-
pose of making Battersea-park, and it appeared that the
Government had purchased the land at so moderate a price
that a speculator had come forward and offered to take it
off their hands, after paying all the expenses to which the
Government had been put, in order to convert it to his
own interests. There was great apprehension in the minds
of many p,rsons out-of-doors that the park was to be sold
to this speculator, and ho should bo glad to hear from the
right hon. gentleman that such a plan was not in contem-
plation.
Sir W. MOLESWORH said that Mr. Cubitt had made
a proposal of the nature alluded to by his honourable
friend, but the Government had declined to agree to it.
(Hear, hear.)
Sir R. H. INGLIS was understood to observe that
honour was due to Mr. Cubitt for the liberal offer which
he had made.
Mr. WILLIAMS explained that he had cast no reflec-
tion on Mr. Cubitt, who he thought had acted most hon-
ourably. He (Mr. Williams) had always contended that
if the Crown estates were properly managed, their revenues
would be sufficient to meet the entire charge of the civil
list.
Mr. BROTHERTON said that as London was the
richest city in the world, he thought the higher classes
ought to contribute something towards keeping up the
parks. The people of Manchester, and other provincial
towns, maintained their own parks.
Sir DE LACY EVANS complained of the unfinished
state of the Nelson monument Trafalgar-square, which he
considered a disgrace to the patriotism of the country; and
he expressed a hope that the Government would take steps
for the completion of the work without further delay.
Sir W. MOLESWORTH said he believed that a sum of
public money had already been voted for the purpose to
which the hon. and gallant gentleman had referred.
Mr. EWART suggested the propriety of effecting some
improvement in the ride in Hyde-park.
Sir WILLIAM MOLESWORTH said that his atten-
tion had been.c,alled to the subject, and he hoped that be-
fore next year some improvement would be made in Rotten-

Mr. THORNELY inquired whether the original estimate
of 628,000/. for the improvements at Holyhead would cover
the whole of the expenditure that would be required for
the works, or whether any other estimate had subsequently
been made ?

Mr. WILSON was not aware of any other estimate hav-
ing been made ' • but he could not undertake to say that in
a work of that magnitude the original estimate would in
no degree be exceeded.

ColOnel DUNNE said that the original plan had been
departed from, and it was well known that the first esti-
mate would not be sufficient to complete the works.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM said that when he came into
office he found the votes for harbours of refuge in a some-
what anomalous position. The expenditure was certainly
brought under the notice of the Admiralty, but the imme-
diate responsibility and control were vested in the Treasury.
With respect to this particular work, he had been assured by
Mr. Rendell, the engineer, on whose opinion from his great
professional talents he could confidently rely, that the
original estimate would be sufficient to cover the entire
cost of completing the works at Holyhead.
Mr. BUCK desired to call the attention of the Govern-
ment to the want of a harbour of refuge in the south-west
of England ; and said ho hoped the subject would at no
distant period engage their attention.
Sir J. GRAHAM said that, considering our maritime
position, there could be no doubt that the subject of har-
bours of refuge had been too long neglected in this coun-
try. Between Harwich and the Tyne there was not a
single harbour for which a ship could run in boisterous
weather, except the Humber under some circumstances.
He was quite aware that some harbour of this kind was
wanted in either Cornwall or Devon, but it was necessary
to proceed by degrees. There would be a considerable
expenditure required upon the works now in course of
construction at Holyhead, Portland, and Alderney, which
must be finished first ; and we must then enter upon the
construction of other harbours, which were much re-
quired.
Mr. WILSON explained that the works originally
contemplated at Holyhead would be completed for the
original estimate of 628,000/., but that there would be a
further outlay of 180,000/. for a steam-packet pier, which
was not embraced in the first plans.

The vote was then agreed to.
On the vote of 226,0001, for constructing certain har-
bours of refuge,
Mr. W. WILLIAMS asked whether the sum of 34,0001.
for Dover Harbour, which was included in this, would be
all that would be requisite for the completion of that im-
portant work ?
Sir J. GRAHAM said that this 34,0001. would complete
the works as far as they had been hitherto sanctioned.
It was, however, proposed to extend the works 805 feet
further into the sea, which would, of course, entail a con-
siderable additional expense, for which the sanction of
Parliament would be asked next year.
In answer to Colonel DUNNE,

Sir J. GRAHAM said that it was intended to carry the
works of the harbour in the south of Jersey much further;
but that thi.
went In tnal, Ig9lsBritr""' '.4.4••••• , 3 7 •
Sir J. GRAHAM said that this accident arose not so
much from any deficiency in the harbour, as from the
want of ordinary precaution on the part of the author
with reference to the provision of the means for saviitiesng ,
life.
In answer to Mr. PELLATT and Captain SCOBIELL,
Sir J. GRAHAM said that at the present rate of pro-
gress, which was the greatest practicable under the cir-
cumstances, the completion of the harbour at Alderney
would occupy seven years from the present time. The
estimated cost would be about 600,000/. It was proposed
to carry out the works so as to obtain a depth of five
fathoms water at the ebb of spring tide. When the works
were completed, ten or twelve steamers of the largest class
would be able to moor there.
The vote was then agreed to.
On the vote of 2,556/ for works at Portpatrick harbour,
Mr. WILLIAMS asked when the expenditure on this
harbour would terminate? Some yeah since an assurance
had been given that no more money would be asked for an
this head.
Sir J. GRAHAM said that this vote was not asked for
any new works, but in order to defray the expenses of
repairing existing works which had been damaged by the
storm of last year. Considering that 100,0001. had been
already expended there, and that it was possible that if
the railway were constructed from Dumfries to Portpatrick
steamers might again run to Ireland from the latter port,
he thought it would be very bad economy to allow the
harbour to go to ruin.
The vote was then agreed to.
MAYNOOTH.
On the vote of 45,6001. for the expense of maintaining
and repairing public buildings in Ireland,
Mr. SPOONER moved that this vote should be reduced
by the sum of 1,235/. 13s. which was asked for the repair
of St. Patrick's College, at Maynooth. Ho still retained
his opinion that it was a national sin for a Protestant
country to support Popery in any shape or in any way, but
considering the very full discussion which this subject had
recently undergone, he should, in opposing the present
vote, confine himself entirely to the pecuniary question.
In 1815 the house granted 30,0001. to build a new college
at Maynooth, and charged the Consolidated Fund with a
nearly equal annual sum for its maintenance ; and yet the
Board of Works came year after year for grants for the
repair of this new college, which bad been constructed out
of a parliamentary grant. In 1846, 5781. was granted for
this purpose; in 1848, 2,685/. ; in 1849, 1,125/. ; in 1850,
1,240/. • and in 1851, 1,2361. There was no grant in 1852,
and he 'had heard that the Treasury then refused to apply
for one on the ground that 2,0001. of the original grant of
30,000/. still remained unexpended. Under these circum-
stances he thought that, although the grant was not large,
it was not a reasonable one in a pecuniary point of view.
There was no analogy between this and any other vote,
and he therefore expected, on that occasion, to receive the
support of those gentlemen who had opposed the motion
which ho had brought forward on the subject of the May-
nooth grant, on the ground that he ought to have, made
that motion general, and to have applied it to all grants
for religious purposes, instead of confining it to a single
case. (Divide, divide.) -
Mr. KENDALL having briefly stated his intention to
support the motion.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS said that ho also should support
the proposition of the hon. member for North Warwick-
shire, on the ground that when the grant was obtained in
1845, Sir R. Peel promised that not a single farthing more
should be asked from Parliament for this college.
Sir J. GRAHAM said that his recollection of what took
place on the occasion of the grant being made .to May
in 1845, by Act of Parliament, was entirely.different.
- from what had just been stated by his hon.. friend that
member for Lambeth (Mr. Williams.) He would,- how-
- ever, in the first place, refer to some of the statements of
the 'hon. member for North Warwickshire.' It was.. not
the fact, that this was a new building ; on the contrary,
it was an old one, and until Parliament granted 30,0001.
for its restoration, it was ono of the roost dilapidated
buildings in the country. Every farthing of that 30,000 f.
had been expended on the responsibility of the Govern-
ment on the repair of the building, only a very inconsider-
able sum having been devoted to its enlargement. The
annual grant was expended, not in maintenance of the build-
ing, but in that of the students and professors. When the
Government of Sir Robert Peel made the proposition to
fix a certain sum as an annual charge upon the Consoli-
dated Fund, it was a question whether they should name
30,0001., a HUM sufficient for the maintenance of the stu-
dent's and of the establishment a from the repairs of
of the build-
the buildiq, or ohether they shouldnind add. to this amount
ainsugfansadffiietiwet tothencov.rect
he wee not mistaken,. it was stated either by himself or by
ideitlatyt h e Svernment, :and if
endowed and so upheld by
expedient that this college,
soannually brought under its rei View,
his late right hon. friend (Sir R. Peel) that they. deemed it
Parliament, should be
re-
ar that the annual repairs w ould
,vote to cover the expense f re-
pinaicrogn. connexion odnid
Wok a year, and unless they des ired
average more than
withnot
athpil
'busi&eant--(hear, hear)—to karve it
dto expel the professors and: stu-
tono longer waterproof, an
re uired was necessary.
dents, out this estal
dents, some such sum as now
then to the Church of England or to any other church .3. and
Mr. PELLATT objected to 21 state endowments, whe-
on that ground would support the proposition of the ,hon •
member for North Warwickshire.
Mr. CORR.Y begged to call attention to the 8, eech
made by Sir Robert Peel when the present gran, ;, was
made for the :support of Maynooth College, and cont ended
that the inference to be drawn from that speech was g that
the sum necessary for repairs should be paid out of tl 3 an.
grantshould whatever aPt re
evPe ar
nual allowan,-.le. (Hear, hear.)
voMter.agbithalA.Lstiaii. tthhoousgehectetlhesaitastthiceayl
be the pretence on which ,they were put on ; and, livere-
fore, he would support the proposition of the hon. in ember
for oh I
rittee
.S. HA ETitr iEck i ecalled the attention of the cows
a Rr-
to a passage; in
in the speech of Sir Robert Peel, when h.e put
the efitablishwent of Maynooth on its present food
E rig, in

row.
Sir J. SHELLEY recommended the widening of Park-
lane as a measure required by the amount of railway and
other traffic daily passing through that thoroughfare.
Sir. W. MOLESWORTH had no doubt that that would
be a desirable thing to do, but considered it ought to be
paid for by the inhabitants of the neighbourhood ; And he
would be glad to hear what amount the hon. baronet him-
self would subscribe towards the object. (A laugh.)
Mr. ARCHIBALD HASTIE complained that the
Government was more ready to vote money for metropo-
litan than for provincial improvements, and when the next
vote for Battersea-park, or some similar object, was moved
he should call the attention of the house to this matter.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS said that he saw on the votes a
charge of 2,1051. for Richmond-park, and wished to know
the amount of the salary of the ranger ?
Lord J. RUSSELL replied that the salary amounted
only to 2001. ; but there were various other expenses re-
quired for maintaining the park.
The vote was then agreed to.
The next vote proposed was 145,774/. for works and ex-
penses connected with the two houses of Parliament.
receive
Mr. SPOONER thought that the house ought to
some explanation of the amount already expended on these
works, and also of the further sum that would be required
to complete the buildings.
Sir W. MOLESWORTH was understood to suggest that
if the hon. gentleman wished to have the items in detail it
Was competent for him to move for a return.
Mr. SPOONER complained of the disgraceful state of
the ventilation of that house, after the large sums that had
been expended upon it, and stated that he understood Mr.
Goldsworthy Gurney was
fort undertake to ventilate
tho house in a proper manner the small sum of 200/. a©
year.
Sir W. MOLESVirORTII had a high opinion of the
talents and ability of Mr. Gurney, and the house, if it
thought proper, could place the ventilation
mindthe
under the man-
agement of that gentleman, but he t r com-
mittee that a large expenditure had already been
incurred
for the ventilation of that house, and the system that had
been adopted ought to have a fair trial. The existing
arrangement had been entered into for a period of one year,
and it would be improper to make any sudden alteration.
Mr. SPOONER inquired if the expenditure incurred in

/
, .
. .
~ • )
Wilibh..,
' which ' proposed that the Board of Works should under-
tonficeotteere
prepairsi3io i:))of
itilcleoisl,leagnedastitihltiaiendeeorettoger thei irvele,oir4r,s7
should
, included in t
—'lllll%. ee
e-- works. (Hear, hear.)
e annual estimate of the public
, ----- •'e :1 Sir W. VERNER bogged to call attention to the oath
. -
that was taken by Roman Catholic priests educated in the
College of Maynooth before they were- appointed to pa- '
rishes. He thought it was the duty of the Government to
, institute an inquiry into that oath. It was endeavoured
to be set aside on more occasions than one, even by the
prelates of the Roman Catholic Church, who gave evidence
before Parliamentary committees. - They endeavoured to
make it appear that there was no such oath taken by the
Ronan Catholic clergy except the oath of allegiance. That
was perfectly right ; it was an oath of allegiance, but to
whom ? To the Pope of Rome, and not to Queen Victoria '
—(divide)—to support the canons and councils, and to put
aside altogether the Scriptures. (Hear, hear.) When
they transported Ribbonmen for taking an illegal oath, • '
why should they
-allow Roman Catholic priests to take the
same oath to all intents and purposes. (Divide.) He
maintained that the oath taken by the Ribbonmen in Ire-
land was the oath taken by the Roman Catholic priests. • '
(Divide.) Were those proper persons to have the manage-
ment of the education of the children of the country ? He
said that the person who took that oath was as deserving
of punishment and transportation as any Ribbonman.
owc(naChemm,Sraiiieterrtes.evbJunijeelf.
whatever;
.to‘l;h‘eVr Divide.")
LUCAS
/ t
was dlnSoeltn)qEdtuo.YiNtlpe,
rnipcekrnesupportedendowments.
out
d , the
in votesthe forho
use religious
n a not whenever
l-ote
the question
that tutthteh happenedihouse,swas to ntoot
be vote
tol'.lben onlyaxic;aiunsisst unfair
ton an
all
c-lienr%endowmentspresent
it
would
110' teenaf":o—tf ang.itlmi%r+ -
was a vote of 381- to be proposed
and 231,
rep
laimnis..hluispe
kind. On looking to page 18, a
isrie seen tthh...et
ethhaepre.
variouS otheritoms of the sal:lea:1( 2"L.
for
furniture and e
FinlDELubil)ionhjCeactsctlde to Setscatre'Piniro;nients for any
denomination-whatever, because it was unfair that ,taxes
should be raised-from• the people to pay foe the entip•• i, r
religious principles of which.they di) n;oetirarge?ye:. -(t3:°;l°..)
meSmirhJer.
forBH SHELLEY' Ymrdaridwineksot
ghoirae' siningthe pri.nwelipnleish6•hhnn.
he had been in the habit of propoundine in the house, leemit,lonirli
broad principle, of being opposed to ball religious d -
would vote for theninironpn.
meats from the public purse, he
sition of the hon. member. Thtehhemon.vmheanat member floviZtdeadth:, -
omunl‘t. . .
instead of continually telling
should-put his intentions into a
aformjirethligiato
religious somethingendowments:
like reality, and which would show that ho really ss
ready to fight with them against
Mr. LUCAS, in reply to the hon. baronet, begged to say
there was a notice put on the paper by the hon. member--
for Mayo, for the 30th of this month for a select commit-
tee to enquire into the subject of religious equality, and it , •
was intended to embrace all' questions of endowments.
(Hear.) When it was Said the Dissenters feared all the
contamination of endowments, he should state that hp lied
received a letter from the Synod of Ulster on the subject
of the Irish Regium, Donum, and they appealed to him
and the other members of the house, to whom the docu-
ment was also addressed, to give their support to the Irish
Regium, Donum,
Mr. W. J. FOX'considered that they were bound when
ever they could to oppose any vote of this description.
Mr. W. WILLIADIS observed that there were three or
four other items in the votes that were open to the same
objection, and he begged to add them to the proposition of
the hon. member for North Warwickshire. There was for -
Irishtown church a sum of 371. 195.; chaplain's house in
Dublin Castle, 771.; and the royal chapel and apartments
in basement, 1411. 6s. Bd.; making a total of 2561. ss. Bd.
There was a charge also for chaplains, both Catholic and
Protestant, in the hospital of Kilmainham ; but het did •
not wish to withdraw the means of religions consolation
from the poor pensioners. He begged to proposed, that in
addition to the vote of 1,235/. 13s. for Maynooth, the sum
of 2561. ss. Bd. should be also disallowed, making together
1,4911. 18s. Bd.
The committee divided—
For the amendment 43
Against it BO
Majority —37
On the amendment of Mr. Spooner being again put.
Lord J. RUSSELL wished to put it to those hon. mem- • bers who had voted in the last division on the principle of
opposing all religious endowments, whether the question
stood now in the same position as it did before the amend-
ment
tested the feeling of the house on the question of religious
endowments ; and as the house had refused to take away
ples
wwhasetthheurstrecyidweodul, hdesiwingslheedoutot
opnust
eint
dtoowmheonni all votes for religious purposes, and as the question of
elanitdawlohinechof oitbstam"
shareed
mpreimncbier
the
l olne gia s nt go
ft topublic
dseunpopmo
ri r
at
ni oan
di
enp le
of the public money. (Hear.) He hoped hon. members
would see that the question was totally altered now, and
that the question was not whether they would vote
against religious endowments generally, but whether they
would single out one denomination for refusal. (Hear.)
Mr. MULL thought the question was only so far al-
tered that in the former case a great many interests were
combined to carry the vote, and that in the present case,
while the same principle was at stake, they would only
have one interest to contend against. Therefore, as he and
his friends were not able to carry their principle wholesale,
he advised them to carry it by detail. •
Mr. SPOONER protested against the vote he had given
in the last division being taken as a vote against all religious
endowments. (Laughter.) Honourable gentlemen might
laugh us -much as they pleased, but he had repeatedly -
sought for explanations as to the nature of the amendment,
and could get none, except that an honourable gentleman
proposed to make the vote 2001. less than he had himself
proposed. ' (Laughter.)
Sir J. SHELLEY contended that the position of the
question was not at all altered by the last vote.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL reiterated his former opinion,
afutirpaiecliotirteglailackliiriekeihneek ellen: two noises
of Parliament.
department.
21,100/. for the Home-office.
54,0451. for the salaries and expenses of the Treasury
69,411/. for the Foreign-office.
39,1751. for the Colonial-office
71,500/. for the Privy Councl and Board otTrade ,
2,700/. for the office of the Lord Privy Seal.
ce.
i
23,7001. for the Paymaster-General's aopartnient.
6,3361. for the Comptroller-General of the Exchequer.
17,2821. for the Commissioners of Works.
2,7771. for the State Paper-office.
22,3291. for the department of Woods and Forests.
On the question that 3,3681. be voted for the Ecclesias-
tical Commissioners.
Mr. WILLIAMS objected, on the ground that these
commissioners were appointed for the benefit of the Church,
and ought to be paid out of the Church's revenues, which
were amply sufficient for the purpose.
The committee divided, when there appeared—
For the grant 63
Against it
Majority for the grant —l9
The next votes were-
-214,494:. for the Poor-law Commission.
49,5311. for' the service of the Mint.
12,2701. for the public records.
15,0501. for inspectors of factories and mines.
On the vote of 1,7001. for offices in Scaland,
Mr. KINNAIRI) asked whether there was any prospect
9
of these items soon disappearing from the estineetes .
Mr. WILSON was understood to say that he could hold
out no hope of that.
Mr. WILLIAMS said the sum voted for horse racing in
Scotland was very small—only 2001. ' • but he would cer-
tainly oppose the much larger sums that were voted for
Ireland.
Mr. APSLEY PELLATT thought if the principle was
objectionable in the one case it was equally so in the other,
and he would therefore move that the vote be reduced by
the amount for those plates.
Sir J. SHELLEY hoped the hon. member would not
persevere in his, motion, as there was no out-door
(7.
amuse-
ment for the working classes that was so much resorted
as horse-racing.
to.
to defray the charge
A vote of 6,4241. was then proposed,
The gallery was then cleared for a division, but none
took place, and the vote was agreed
Lord-
Lieutenant of Ireland.
inten-
tion J. SHELLEY asked whether there was any
of salaries for the officers and attendants of the
. r
the abolition of the office of Lord-Lieutenant?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
ewas. ,
on the part of the Government to introduce a bill for
not able to state that it was the intention of theof ?roovigra.
ment to abolish the office of Lord-Lieutenant ,
tend_
continuance of
that this vote was necessary for the present
that office.
At the same time his honourable friend would unde.s stand
and PVPg
cellor of the Exchequer as unsatisfactory ,
~
was
na
21-icern?Wl.CEL-Te ci ed in point of frankness.
0 answer ea'ee.
Colonel DUNNE characterised the answer of the Chan-
If the hon. gentleman
to shape his answer
he would endeavour
lan
amended shape, whether there was any p
to it. The question being, 1
f the Lordutenant, he
for the abolition of the office
oer) stated that no plan of
would put his question in an
,(the Chancellor of the ExcheAuder
There might be great
' it was formed.
answer
Goveimneut since
but that was the only
evasiveness in that answer,
he was able to give. (Hear, hear.)
honourable gentleman
the kind had been brought un .. the consideration of the
Volonel DUNNE asked- the right
f the Govern-
d-Lieutenant 'l'
meat to abolish the office of Bor x
__
__Ex_
I am not
; The CHANCELLOR of the
(A
aCurigr
if was aware of any intention on the part e'
E
as an amendment, to
2s Bd-
)fir. W. WILLIAMS proposed,__,
..,
viz.,
1841. 1 . ,
diminish this veto by 1,7581. 18s. eue
h lain to Dublin Castle,
for the e ap
t t be run for
wkich was put down
aware of any such intention. 1
in Ireland.
defended the vote on the ground of its
Mr. HENCHY
ation to the people of Ireland,- of
tending to afford
stoodrecreation
much in need.
which many of them
d the vote, on the ground that it was
add 1,5741. 6s. 2d. for fifteen Queen's Pla es o
Mr. WISE oppose
by private
es
individuals.YMOUß submitted, it would be incon-
sistent
grant a sum which ought to be borne
.]
3iG
refusey sEn
this vote, when the committee had just
sanctioned a to
vote for a similar purpose in Scotland, and.
that this was an unfortunate time in which to seek to de-
prive the people of Ireland of the recreation which it was
the object of the grant to encourage among them.
The amendment was negatived, on a division, by 92
against 31; and the vote was agreed to.
Votes of 17,1341. for the salaries and expenses of the
offices of the chief secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of
Ireland in Dublin and London, and of 7,4721. to defray the
charge of salaries of the Paymaster of Civil Services Office,
were agreed to without discussion.
On a vote of 30,1531. being proposed, to pay the salaries
and expenses of the Board of Public Works in Ireland.
Colonel DUNNE alluded to the reports of the commit-
tees on drainage, and arterial drainage, in Ireland, and to
the fact that in twelve cases of arterial drainage which
had been attempted by the Government in that part of the
kingdom the estimated cost had been greatly exceeded.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, if it
was the wish of the gallant colonel that the committee
should at .that moment enter incidentally and fully into
the question he had referred to, he could only assure him
it was one which had not escaped the attention of the Go-
vernment, and one which they were ready to go thoroughly
into at the earliest opportunity.
The vote was.then agreed to.
On its being proposed that 32,0001. be granted to defray
" the charge of her Majesty's foreign and other secret set--
vices," • ~
,
Mr. WISE said he could not conceive for what purpose
'that
gem4irice' InAnai'IVIIS. 764nh'ed.
ed this vote for a.
Mr. W. ILLIAMS said he had opp os
yes a considerable
d to
number of years, and he was gla