The Sun.
London, England, 1854-06-27 00:00:00

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HOUSE O LORDS-'--(YESTERDAY.3
The-house met at five o'clock. There was not a'larb;;C
attendance of peers at that hour, but the parts set.aside
t') members of the House of Connmins' were crowded.
EVery available space in front of the thronO.Was alio
filled with strapgers, -and there was not a heat unoccu-
pied 'near the' strangers' gallery. In the galleries im-
me !lately over the throne, there were between thirty
and forty-peeresses and daughters of peeresseS, and other
distinguished" ladies.
-.LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, CANADA,
Lord DERBY gave notice,that when this bill, .which
worked an entire change in the constitution of Canada,
and which stood for committee on Thursday next,,camei
on be -should move its . postponement 'Until_ next

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7

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ready to renew it without ieferenee to the present posture
of Hoar, ~q-ar.) 7 , Insve_explai tied to your lord-
"ships how it came hat E insisted 'the other evening upon
the Halite t exte,,,-Of .the territorial- acquisitions which. _
Russia ha-I made in cot sekiuenco of the treaty of Adrianople.
My statem upon tha` point is Perfectly true ;it is in-
Controvertible her it was intended to be qualified in the
manner which I have now stated to your lordships. I feel,
therefore, that I have nothing further to say, of the treaty of
Adrianople. It has also beensaid that I recommended areturn
to the status quo, or, at least, that I would not object to it.
Now, my-lords, this statement suprises me more than any-
thing ; because I bad taken special care toexplain that point
in• my answer to the observations of my noble and learned
friend. I stated that that might be the cause of some
apparently ambiguous expressions used by Austria and
by Prussia, as compared with the expressions used by our-
selves, and I said that Austria and Prussia might be desir-
ous to restore the .etatus . quo ; but, at the same time, I
made the apeCific, declaration that that was by no means
applicable tows—that-is to England and France.- (Hear.)
You are aware, my lords, that. before the declaration of
war the status. quo was all that we hoped for—all that we
desired—all that we attempted to obtaiis, and that was the
agreed
e treatyed to b
condition which the Turkish Government aignitied its wil-
ulipnegunetshsetuo
ntagrlerseteantdeig to.
T
ofy all Vietnnheafwouars pforawmersed, •
that the relations between Russiaand Turkyhoul I revert
to the status quo. We thought that was quitees as much as
the Emperor of Russia could expect us to offt,srua much
More than ho had any right to expect. But. m, aylords,
proposed that in the•hope that we should be able to preserve
the state of peace, anti that we should be able toav
avert our
entering upon a course where all the evil passions that war
engenders would be let loose. But the instant that w
declared, the state of the question was entirely altered.was
(Cheers.) From that moment everything depended upon
the war itself, and we are left free to exercise our own-judg-
ment—to do that which we think will best suit our own inte-
rests and policy in framing the - terms of peace. From that
moment the status quo was entirely at an end. (Cheers.)
Very well. I also said, as to the terms of peace, that how-
ever desirable however necessary we might think certain
terms to be, still it would be unwise in us now, in the pre-
sent state of the war, to lay down any conditions of peace
as those to which alone we will accede. (Hear.) These must
depend upon the events of the war; and in the debate to
which I have already referred I recollect I did say that the
conditions of peace would be very different if we found the
Russians at Constantinople from what they would be if we
found ourselves at St. Petersburg. Well, my lords, with-
in these points lies the whole scope of the variance from
the status quo. How far we may deviate from the status quo
no man can at this moment say, because that must depend
upon events which are not within our power absolutely to
control. But, this we can say, that the independence and
integrity of Turkey are undoubted conditions--they consti-
tute the sine qua non—that must be secured, and secured
effectually. (Cheers.) But how that is to be done must again
depend upon the progress of events, in the course of the
negotiations which may take place at the moment. But
that security must be taken—security for the independence
anti integrity of Turkey, so far as depends upon Russia, is
really the object from whioh.-we are determined not to de-
part. (Cheers.) But again, 1 say, now-this is to us ob-
tained neither I nor any man in this house is able to say.
We know what our object is—our main object at least—
and of course by one mode or another we will obtain that
without which peace is impossible. (Hear, hear.) I think,
also, exceptiou has been taken to some expressions of mine,
as I have expressed doubt or disbelief of any danger from
Russian aggression. Now, I wish here to say that I have
the greatest alarm as to Russian aggression against Turkey.
But against that aggression in any shape—whether in the
shape of influence, whether in the shape of conque4, or in
any other mode—we are prepared to protect her. But,
with respect to Russian aggression upon Europe, indepen-
dent of her designs upon Turkey, I certainly did express
no great alarm, because I feel
no great alarm, and I am in-
clined to feel less and less every day. (Laughter.) If Russia,
indeed, could be supposed to be in possession of Constanti-
nople, if she had made good her aggression upon Turkey;
if she were in possession of Constantinople, then indeed I
should feel alarmed for Europe, because I think Russia
would acquire then the means of becoming formidable and
dangerous to Europe. Without that, my 1, eds, I cannot pre-,
tend to say that I feel- any'great alarm. I consider France
tei be more powerful than Russia and Austria put together
—(hear, hear)—and it is therefore impossible for me to look
upon Russia with any grest alarm out of her own frontiers,
or in such a light as would induce me-to think teat it would
be _better to enter at once into a state of- war in. order to
repress dangers which Ido not feel. Danger froin Russia
against Europe appears to me mainly, if not entirely, to
depend upon her power in Turkey and in the EastL If that -
power.be checked—and it is to be hoped that_ we shall suc-
ceed in keeping her entirely free from exciting further alarm
in the Turkish territories—then I cannot possibly think
that there need be any very great alarm as to what she may
do to Austria, or Prussia, or France, or England. (Cheers.)
This, however much it has been misunderstood, was really
all. that I'meant to express as to my general incredulity of
any danger from Russian aggression. I have now shoWn
your lordships what sort of•aggression it is that I am afraid
of, and what sort of aggressiOn it is that I am not afraid of.
I am not aware that there is any other part of the observa
tions which I addressed to your lordships the other night
which requires further explanation. I believe I have already
explained everything- which, from being misunderstood at
the time, appeared -to be calculated to excite feelings of dis-
trust in the Government. My lords, I wish I could confine
myself to this-explanation ; to the full expression, of the
sentiments Lentertabs, and which appeared to me necessary
to be explained. I could have wished cot taiuly that I might
have been spared the necessity of saying anything about the'
extraordinary and absurd imputations—the personal im-
putations—to which I have been exposed. (Loud cheers.)
I have no fear that your lordships, who are accustomed to
weigh the actions and the sentiments of public men, will fail
to co mpreheud the motives from which I have acted; and the
misrepresentation of them has been' so ludicrously absurd,
that I feel—indignant as lam—l feel it would not be worthy
of the position which I now occupy—it would not be worthy
of the memory of those with whom I have acted—it would
not be worthy of my own character, if I were to condescend
to enter upon any justification of my personal motives.
(Cheers.) My lords, it is true that I have more than any other
man struggled to preserve the state of peace for this country..
I have done so because I thought it my duty to the people"
of this country—my duty to God and assn--toeshaust every
possible means of preserving pesce, and my only regret
is—though I trust your lordships will acquit me on that
point—my only regret is, that I should not have done all,
and lest in any way I should - have lost some possible
means of averting the greatest calamity that can be-
fall a country, for, however glorious any war may be, the
calamities which accompany it 'are heavy enough greatly
to outweigh that-glory. -I-know it-"has been said if you
love peace so much, you are unfit for war. My lords,
though peace is so dear to my feelings, still I am convinced
of the necessity of this war. But how do I wish to make
war ? I wish to make war in order to obtain a peace ; and
I know well that the best mode of making war in order
speedily to obtain a peace is to make war with the utmost
vigmr and determination. (Cheers.) My noble friends
near me know well enough that, peaceable as I am, I
have never shrunk —that, on the contrary, I have give n
my moat ready concurrence to the most active measures of
hostility and warlike preparations. Nay more, I believe
I may say they will admit that I have personally been
more urgent than perhaps any other man in exhorting the
speedy concentration andadvance of the allied forces north
of the Balkan in support of the gallant army of Omer
Pacha, and to extend a helping hand to Austria in order
to enable her to carryout her professions. (Cheers.) This,
except for the warmth of the feelings under whichl spoke,
I ought not perhaps to say—(cheers)—but it is the truLli
that, in the course we have taken; I have invariably urged
the most decided course of action. (Cheers.) My lords, I
have now no more to say. I wish to confine myself to this
subject without entering upon other topics more or less
connected with the wars—with the events that led to it, or
that may follow from it—l wish to remove understandings
which I feel to be perfectly erroneous interpretations of
what I said, and I now declare that so far from my former
endeavours to preserve peace disqualifying me from car-
rying on thd war, I think, though of course I may bewrong,
in the particular means, I think we ought to have-recourse
to the most expedient, the most prompt, the most sue-
cessful means of carrying it on. , I -maintain, and assert,
that my very love of peace induces me now to enter upon.
this war, which I unquestionably believe to be a.perfectly
just war—(cheers)—and therefore-it is that I—so long 'as
I have anything to do with the Govejrnment,—shall nnques-
tionably carry it on in such a manner as will be .most
likely to secure benefit to England, and 'to -establish a safe
and honourable peace. (Loud and continued cheers.)
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE said the explanation
of the noble earl had_ been rendered necessary in conse-
quence of the observations he made on a former
.evening
to the speech of the noble and learned lord opposite, to
whom
this
country and all Europe 'were indebted for the
lacid explanations he had-given of the state of our.rola-
lions with Russia. • But, though the explanations' of the
noble earl:were confined to that subject, still he.,must say
that the question which the noble earl had now raised was
on a much wider scale than the immediate effect or the
.
precise terms of the treaty. of Adrianople. Ho understood
that the noble earl wished to state clearly to their lord-
ships his views, not upon the war only, but upon the fo-
reign policy of the country in general. He had -gone as
far back as 1829, and he had more than once stated that
he through life had been consistent, in which ho (the Mar-
quis of Clanricarde) entirely agreed with him, and he had
laid before their lordships grounds on which he thought
himself entitled to the confidence of Parliament, and to be
allowed -to conduct the war to its termination. That was
a groat question, which he (the Marquis of Clanricarde)
undoubtedly would not have mooted in the house, but as
it had been mooted, he would not shrink from discussing
it—while he readily admitted-and, if necessary, would
assert and maintain—that the noble lord had
nd throu
withgh his
whole life acted with entire consistency, a also
considerable ability, yet,. ever since 1.8.29, it was his ntis-
fortune to differ from the noble earl on alMost every topic'
of foreign policy, and he thought that the sentiments and
principles which had dictated that policy, and the repute-
' tion which the noble earl acquired in support of it, were
the principal causes which
had led to this war, during the
course of which he thought that-.the past conduct of the
noble earl rendered him unfit to be her Majesty's chief ad-
viser. But he must say a word-or two with respect to this
despatch. • The noble earl had dwelt -upon the fact that it
hadbeen adverted to so long ago as by the late Earl Grey,
and that Lord. Melbourne refused to permit it to be pub-
lished— ,
The Earl of ABERDEEN was -understood to express
his dissent.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE—At all events it was
considered that this despatch was of such an important
nature that it was not advisable to publish it. So lately
as February last, a member of the other house, feeling that
the despatch ought not to be quoted by Ministers unless it
was laid before Parliament, moved for its production, and
the answer of Lord John
,Russell, was, that he could not
undet-take to produce it without first consulting with the
noble earl. That consultation was held, and the result
was, that the despatch was not produced. He must say,
then, that the noble earl now proposed for his peraono
convenience—perhaps for its being necessary to his own
vindication, but in either case f • ;-•-htid
froth personal motives
consented. to do that which he had formerly declared to be
calculated to injure the public service. And do not let
him be told that this wonderful document which bad been
so long talked of, and 'which was- 'now about, to be sub
I.-
mitted to profane eyes—do, not .let it be-said that hadunlo
not be produced in February last, because war t
been declared, for.what WAS the remark of the
lnolite ea)rl
.
upon the observations of the noble and:'. learned
er
before Iwn e
site? no said, they. might have been veryw
indignation
went to war, in order to rouse the public,
for
against Russia, but that now :there was no occasion
d o noe and
thew. If If that were so with regar totl
b
Id haveblee n equally
ed lord's observations, surely it wall
oduction •of the espatch. e
true with respect to the pr
at he when the
might also remind
office,
he made a general declaration of
noble earl first took
his views, and he was repol:ted.to have stated-that the main
principles of the foreign policy of this country had not varied
on of the policy might
for the last 30 yeare—that the execution

- LORD ABERDEEN'S- EXPLANATION.
The Earl of ABERDEEN—My lords; I have taken a
somewhat unusual course upon the present occasion, bat
perhaps your lordships will not think it altogether unjusti-
Treble or unreasonable that I should be desirous Of availing
myself of the earliest opportunity to remove the misappre-
"'mug one which have taken Ow and which have led in
consequence to great misrepresentatious of some observa-
tions which I addressed to your lordships in the course of
the last week. My lords, I could wish that those who ex-
press an opinion upon the observations in question would
take the trouble to read the report of that speech. I have
done so myself ; and although I declare that I, have no-
thing to retract or to contradict, nevertheless I readily ad-
mit that, from the imperfect manner in which I always
address your lordships, there may probably—there may
undoubtedly—be reason for some explanation, and some
further development-of that_Which,l had intended to ad-
dress to the house with a view to -bring fully and clearly
before your lordships the views and opinions which I en!
tertain upon the subject to which my observations referred.
My lords, I feel that I can do so with great ease, and, for-
tunately, in a very short time—otherwise, from the indis-
position of the moment, I should not attempt to address
your lordships upon the present occasion. (Hear.) My
lords, the despatch for which I intend to move 'was first
referred to in this house by the late Lord Grey, very shortly
before he became Minister.
,It has been mentioned at other
times, both here and in the House of Commans. It has
been moved for but withheld for various reasons. It was
likewise referred to by myself not very long ago, and I
have now resolved to produce it, because I understand
there has proceeded from a very high authority in another
place the astounding declaration that I have recently,
claiMed the honour of framing the treaty of Adrianople.
(Hear.) Now, my lords, the prodtiction of the despatch
in question will show you how far I was instrumental
in framing that treaty, and what was my opinion, and
the opinion of the Government • whose organsl was on
that occasion, of that unfortunate and -disastrous treaty.
My lords, it has been said—or, at all events, it has been
interred from what .I said a few days ago—that I re-
garded the treaty of Adrianople with approbation, or, at
least, with indifference. Now, my lords, the fact is, such
was the impression produced by that treaty—such was the
alarm excited by its conclusion —such were the supposed
dangers which we dreaded to the existence of the Turkish
empire, that the whole policy,of the British Government
was changed on a most material point in consequence of
that treaty. I have, already, I think,- referred in this
house to the, fact, which your lordships well know, that
at the beginning and during the progress of the Greek re-
volution, Mr. Canning never contemplated the existence
of Greece as an independent kingdom, •neither did the
Duke of Wellington ever contemplate the existence of
Greece as an independent kingdom, but solely as a vassal
state under the suzerainty, of the. Porte, somewhat similar
to the provinces of Wallachia and Moldavia. When,
hoWever, the treaty of Adrianople was signed, it appeared
to me, and my noble friend at-the head of - the Govern-
ment at the time agreed with me, that the condition of
the Turkish empire was so perilous in itself- that it would
be extremely unwise to create a state and to place it under
the protection and suzerainty of an empire which itself
was exposed to extreme peril, and whose "existence was
prolonged for a time only. Therefore we agreed to pro-
pose to our allies to convert that vassal state into an inde-
pendent kingdom. Our allies agreed with us, and the
Porte at last assented to our proposal. Hence the exist-
ence of Greece as an independent kingdom is duo to the
impressions produced upon us by the terms of the treaty
of Adrianople. My lords, what I- have now said shows at
least what were our impressions; andsalthough they may
be thought by some to have been erroneous, can as
sure your lordships that at the time they were un-
questionably honest and sincere. I fully admit that
the apprehensions which we. then felt have Wiled
out to be greatly exaggerated. However disastrous
the treaty of Adrianople, and however mischievous
pits conditions, nevertheless we have the experience
of the last 25 years to assure us of the continued existence
of the Turkish empire; and more than that, wo have had
proof of the vigour, of the energy, and of the courage and
perseverance with which the troops of that empire have
maintained the integrity and independence of their country.
(Cheers.) It is obvious, then, that we were under the
moat exaggerated alarm for the consequences of the treaty.
of ,Adrianople. Now, my lords, Ido not mean to say, al-
though fortunately we were somewhat mistaken as to the
amount of the danger to be apprehended from the treaty
of Adrianople, that that treaty was not, in the highest de-
gree, dangerous and prejudicial to the interests of Europe.
(Hear, hear.) I have never said so, either here or else-
where. My noble and learned friend (Lord Lyndhurst)
called it, I think, an "unfortunate" treaty. My lords,
that is not a word sufficiently strong to describe the char-
acter of that treaty. (Hear, hear.) True, my lords, I
have said that, disastrous as the treaty of Adrianople. was,
Russia has made no great territorial acquisitions in conse-
quence of that treaty. I said so as the simple truth. I
was induced to say so, perhaps, at the moment, in conse-
quence of a declaration, most exaggerated and unfounded,
that my noble and learned friend had made, that the Rus-
sian empire had doubled its territory in Europe in the
course of the last 50 years. That I hold to be completely
incorrect, and, with the recollection of the treaty of Adria-
nople before me, I certainly did refer to it in proof that no
such extension of territory had taken place as that asserted
by my noble and learned friend. But, my lords, although
I knew perfectly well, and indeed I think there can be no
doubt of the fact, that no considerable extension of terri-
tory has taken place in consequence of that treaty, never-
theless I was not at all the less aware of the importance of
the acquisitions that have 'actually been made since 1829.
I know perfectly well the importance of the acquisi-
tions which Russia has made with respect to the
navigation of the Danube, and I am equally sensible
of the importance of the posts which she has acquired
in Asia. Although small in extent, those acquisi-
tions, from their character, are of the highest political
importance. My lords, as the despatch for which I in-
tend to move is long, and will be immediately upon the
table of the house, I will not fatigue your lordships by
reading it in extenso' but I must trouble you with a single
extract, to show that, although I dwelt strongly the other
evening upon the limited extent of the territorial acquisi-
tions made by Russia, I did not in the slightest degree ,
mean by that to invalidate the political importance of the
acquisitions actually made by Russia. The passage is ex-
pressed- in these terms :—" It may not be easy to accuse of
want of generosity the conqueror who checks the wire-
sisted progress of success, and who spares the defenceless
capital of his enemy. Nevertheless, the treaty in question
—certainly not in conformity with the expectations held
out by preceding declarations and assurances--appears-
vitally to affect the interests; the strength, the dignity,
the present safety, and future independence of the Otto-
man empire. The modes of domination may be various,
although all equally irresistible. The independence of a
State may be overthrown, and its: subjection effectually
seoured, without the presence of a hostile force or the per-
manent
possession of its soil. Under thepresent treaty
the territorial acquisitions of Russia are small, it must be
admitted, in extent, although moat important in their
character. They are commanding positions, far more.
valuable than the possession of barren provinces and de-
populated towns, and better 'calculated to rivet the fetters
by which the Sultan is bound." [A Peer—L" What is the
date?") The despatch is elated the.3lst day of December, '
1829. My lords' the extract I have. read shows that the
small extent of the acquisitions made by Russia did not
blind me to the importanceuf their character ; and, there-
fore, when the other night I dwelt upon the absence of any
very great territorial acquisitions, of course it is with a
view to contradict the assertion of my noble and learned
friend, and to state what may be termed a geographical
truth, but without the slightest reference to the undoubted
political importance of those acquisitions which have
actually been made. My lords, the conclusion of the treaty
of Adrianople was the commencement of a change of policy
on the part of Russia. It is highly probable that if that
treaty had been made by the Empress Catherine, great ac-,
quisition of territory would have taken place. But, as I
have said, at that time Russia commenced a change of
policy which has been carried on to the present day with
ever increasing vigour, and which, accounts, to a certain
extent, for the absence of those territorial acquisitions
which in other circumstances would no doubt have been
'made. That change of policy consists in this—Russia,
instead of pursuing the policy which was followed in the
preceding century, has, since the conclusion of the treaty of
Adrianople. looked to the exteuSion of her politicalin-
fluence rather than to the acquisition of territory. (Hear,
hear.) A very prudent and politic change it has been.
We have all heard that
" Satan's grown wiser than of yore ;"
and, perhaps, the line is not inapplicable to the Emperor
of Russia, in haring determined to pursue the same objects
by different means, and means calculated not so greatly to
alarm the European powers. (Hear,- and a laugh.) I
believe this is the secret of all that has taken place in
recent years. Take, for example, the treaty of Unkair
Skelessi, concluded when a Russian army was in possession
of Constantinople. There can be no doubt that if the
former policy of the Empress Catherine had been followed
upon that occasion great territorial acquisitions would
have been made, and, they could not have been resisted in
the relative positions of the two powers at the time ; but
in consequencd, as I believe, of the change of policy com-
menced by the treaty of Adrianople, the demands of
Russia olthe conclusion Of the treaty of Unkiar Skelessi,
though they were of the highest importance both to Russia
and the Porte, did not assUme the character of territorial
aggrandisement. So with the' mission of Prince Men-
schikoff himself. Russia was in a position in which she
might have made demands of the most pressing, nature
upon Turkey. She had-some reason for adopting that
course; but, instead of exacting anything like terri-
torial indemnity, she at- once pressed for additional
privileges, and if . she had obtained those additional
privileges for. her co-religionists in the Turkish
empire, I have no doubt that the invasion of the
principalities would never have taken place, or would imme-
diately have ceased on 'the Sultan complying with her de-
Mends. But of course we-felt —Europe felt—that the in-
dependence of Turkey would be as much endangered by
the cession of such rights and privileges as were claimed by
Russia as it would have been had she made a positived
rand -for territorial indemnity ; and therefore it was that:
lord,
the pretensions of Russia,were resisted. Now,_
I have been supposed to say also that .I desireid,mobreyedaiudsneot
object, to a return to the treaty. of Adrovino
stated that if we could obtain a peace 1, hiePh should last
for 25 years wo should not do atnisq.„. (Hear, bear.) Nor
should we ; but when I said that
J. -never for a moment
which it seems. my words
meant to convey the impression
Lava produced. (Hear hear.) I never said a word to
imply that I desired to'return to. the tre_attoy. of Adrianople.
(Hear, hear.) What I saul, or intended say, was, that
the treaty of Adrianople has.given us peace for 25 years,
and that if by any treaty which the fortune of war, might
enable us to make we, should secure peace
the instabfor an equal
length of time, we should not, considering
of all human affairs, do so very far amiss. Therefore, my
lords, lam quite at a loss to conceive upon what ground
any one should dare to say, first, that I have claimed the
honour of making the treaty of Adrianople' and, next, that
I approved of or was indifferent to its conditions, and was