The Sun.
London, England, 1854-12-15 00:00:00

I MPERIAL PARLIAMEN T.

HOUSE OF LORDS—(YESTERDAY.)
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack
at five-o'clock.
The Duke of RICHMOND presented a petition from
Wakefield, praying the Government to bring into opera-
tion all the resources of the country in order to bring
the war to a speedy and successful termination. The
noble and gallant duke took oocasion to pass a warm
eulogium on the bravery displayed by our troops at the
Alma, Balaklava, and the Inkermax ; and recommended
that medals in honour of tkose brilliant achievements
should be immediately issued, and not delifel till the
close of the war.

ENLISTMENT OF FOREIGNERS BILL.
The Duke of NEWCASTLE moved the second read-
ing of the bill which he had laid on the 'table, to pro-
vide for the training and drilling of a limited number of
foreign troops. He said that after the debate which
took place on Tuesday night and the general expression
which had been then made that there were not sufficient
troops in the Crimea to carry on the war efficiently, and
that there was not a sufficient army of reserve in this
country, he did not anticipate that he would be likely to
meet with any opposition to the motion for the second
reading of the bid which he had laid on the table on the
first night of the session, to enable her Majesty to enlist
foreigners as officers and soldiers in the Queen's service.
Iu former times, this power of enlisting foreigners was
considered to exist in the Crown, and on some occasions
had been commented on by Parliament, and on other
occasions had been allowed to pass without remark,
until in the year 1794, when a motion was made in the
House of Ootnmons which led to a discussion on the in-
troducing of foreign troops into this country. It was,
probably, on account of the feelings which had been ex-
cited on account of the subsidising of foreign troops that
the first act of Parliament was brought in to enable
the Sovereign to do it. The first act on the subject
was passed in 1794, and it enabled the King to raise
foreign troops to carry on the war in which we were
engaged at that time. The next act was that of 1804,
which enabled the King to enlist German troops, but
under which other foreigners were enlisted ; and the
third act was that of 1806, under which several foreign-
ers were enlisted—the German Legion, and forces under
other denominations. It had always been found desirable
to enlist foreigners at the beginning of a war, on account
of the difficulties we experienced in not having the im-
mediate means of bringing into operation a large trained
army. The institutions of other countries gave them
much greater facilities of suddenly raising a large trained
force than ours. In Prussia and other countries men
were trained to arms, and taught a sufficient knowledge
in the art of war, to render them immediately available
for the army in case of hostilities. There being no such
system in this country, all we could do was te raise as
many teen as possible. The whole of those raised could not
with us have any previous training, and men should not
be sent out to an army without six or seven months pre-
vious training. He had alluded to the jealousy expressed
by Parliament with respect to the introduction of foreign
troops, and it had likewise been thought right to limit
the number of those that might be brought into the
country with the view of drilling them. By the act
of 1794 the number was limited to 5,000 ; by the
act of 1804 the number was extended to 10,000 ;
and by the act of 1806 the number was further ex-
tended to 16,000 ; from which period it remained until
the close of the war in 1815. He felt it desirable to
state that, the Government believing that a constitu-
tional principle was involved, and conceiving that it was
due to Parliament to obtain their previous sanction, no
official communication has been made as yet to any fo-
reign Government on the question, and he did not pro-
pose to do so until the bill which he submitted to their
lordships should pass into law. (Hear, hear.) He did
not think it his duty to make any corainunication to
foreign Governments till the bill should pass, and there-
fore he hoped that, having explained it, and not antici-
pating any opposition to it, it would be allowed to pass
with as much rapidity as would enable the Govern-
ment to carry its provisions into immediate effect. Until
the year 1837, except under special acts, the enlistment
of foreign soldiers in English regiments was not permit-
ted ; but in 1837 leave was given to introduce one fo-
reigner for every fifty men in our regiments. It was now
proposed that the foreign troops to be raised should be
raised in separate battalions apart from the regiments of
the Queen. He did not think it desirable undr the cir-
, cumstances; and as no communication had been made to
foreign Governments on the subject, to state to their
lordships where he thought these foreigners were likely to
come from. Noble lords knew that from Germany, from
Switzerland, and from other countries, soldiers were likely
to be obtained, but he did not think he would be justified
in stating more particularly the places whence he antici-
pated to get the men required, until the communications
to which he had referred had been received. In the last
war, the greater body of the foreign troops which served
in our campaigns were the German legion, and those
noble lords who heard him would bear him out in saying
that throughout those campaigns these troops rivalled our
own gallant services. From the year 1807 to the bat-
tle of Waterloo in 1815, there was scarcely a siege or
battle in which the German Legion had not taken part.
(Hear.) It was essential to raise as efficient and as good
a force as we possibly could, and all the men raised
which could be thas raised, would be, not raw recruits,
but trained soldiers, which, if properly officered, would
be immediately ready to enter on a campaign. A limi-
tation of the number of troops was likewise proposed in
this instance by the Government, and the number which
in the present aspect of affairs they thought it advisable
to take was not considerable ; they therefore proposed
to limit the number under this bill to 15,000. The bill
was of a simple character, and did not require further
explanation ; but he was ready to answer any questions
which any noble lord might think proper to put to ht:e.
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGII said that when the
noble duke first announced the intention of the Govern-
ment to bring in a bill to enable her Majesty to enlist
foreign troops, he imagined they intended to raise two
or three corps, and to maintain in this country the de-
pots of these two or three corps ; and he felt the greatest
repugnance to the admission of even the depots of two or
three foreign corps. But when he had received the bill
that morning, he was filled with a.stonisliment—(hear,
from the Earl of Derby)—for, taking this bill in connec-
tion with the bill in the other house to enable her Ma-
jesty to accept the services of the militia to garrison the
fortifications and stations in the Mediterranean, the prac-
tical effect of the measure would be to substitute 15,000
foreigners in this country for the 15,000 British militia-
men that would be employed in the Mediterranean. (Nu.)
He thoughtit was a perfectly legitimate and rarliamentay
view of the measure which he then took, for if the bill
would give the power of doing what he represented, he
was entitled to assume that the power would be exer-
cised, and the bill did give the power of substituting
15,000 Germans or Swiss for 15,000 Englishmen. He
did not think there had been anything in the conduct
of the people of this country since the commencement
of the war to induce the supposition that they were not
perfectly ready td bear all the sacrifices demanded of
them. (Hear, hear.) Their had been nothing in their
conduct which could justaz the conclusion that the
people of this country were either unable or unwilling to
maintain their own national inttrests or their own na-
tional army. (Hear.) The circumstances under which
the several acts referred to by the noble duke had passed
were totally different from those existing at present. In
those periods the states which were subsidised were sub-
jugated or threatened by other states ; and the men in our
pay were fighting, in fact, for their own country. The
circumstances now were totally different ; yet, at the
commencement of this popular and national war, it was
proposed by our War Minister to go back to old times,
and te hire Hessians instead of our constitutional force.
The noble duke should have told the house that there
was a difficulty—that there was a difficulty of recruiting,
and why he had failed is obtaining a sufficient number
of soldiers; but instead of that he attempted, by sacri-
ficing constitutional principles, to make up for the
lathes of the Government. He (the Earl of Ellenborough)
had, from the year 1828 to 1841, the good fortune of
being in communication with the late Sir Robert Peel ;
and it was understood that the majority of her Ma-
jesty's Government represented the feelings and opinions
of the late Sir Robert Peel ; and be thought he might
venture to say what the opinions of the deceased statesman
would be on this question. He did not pretend to have had
as great an intimacy with Sir Robert Peel as the noble
duke, but being in communication with him for 13
years, he might assume that he was acquainted with the
character of his mind and his general views on public
affairs ; and he would say with the greatest confidence,
to this motion Sir Robert Peel would have never as-
sented. He felt satisfied that that right hon. baronet,
having been Home Secretary for some time, would look
at the extreme difficulty and danger which would attend
the calling out of these 15,000 foreign troops in any
portion of the country, as they should necessarily be,
for the preservation of the peace if disturbances should
anywhere arise. Occasional disturbances could not be
prevented, disputes between masters and workmen, and
local riots ; and if this bill passed these Germans, or
other foreign troops, might be the troops employed to
queli these disturbances, and to act against the people of
England on such occasions. A great deal had been said
of the improvements which had taken place in the moral
condition and character of her Majesty's troops, but
what security was there for the moral character of
the German or other foreign soldiers whom it was
proposed to enlist! The recruiting sergeant did not
look for moral character but for physical strength, sound
wind and limbs. He was far from being disposed to
say anything to decry the character of the German or
any other foreigners. They made very respectable sol-
diers, but they were not qualified to stand with the sol-
diers of England or France ; and had one of those Ger-
man regiments been placed between two English regi-
ments at Inkerman, they could not stand and fight as
the British stood and fought—no man believed they
could. (Hear, hear.) There was considerable danger
always in a long battle if the men were unequal in
strength—danger to the whole army engaged. These
being Isis objections to the enlistment of foreigneer ssi.oans
proposed, he would venture to repeat a
sugg
made in the beginning of this year to the noble
duke,
and which was then rejected. At the coininenc;zeinst
of the war he had recommended te her Majesty's e
a-
ters the establishment of an uniform system _
mof
throughout the country, not for the general d ra-
tion of justice; but because he believed such an estab-
lishment would, in case of war, be the best foundation
of a good, efficient, and ready military system, for he
knew of no recruiting officer so good as the policeman.
They knew the character of all those whom they en-
listed, and if the police establishment was made a na-
tional one it would make the most solid foundation for
an army in case of war. Nine months ago he had re-
commended that plan to the Government' and that
the whole militia of the country should be called out.
w That measure, however, was not adopted. What,
he asked, would have been the condition of the country

now had his suggesti on been carried into operation
The Government would. not have had to propose to Par-
liament the employment of foreigners : their lordships
would not have heard of the difficulty of obtaining na-
tional troops for national purposes ; the militia, had it
been then called out, would have supplied all that was
necessary for the service of the State. The most obvious
views of public policy were, however, contumaciously
rejected. (Cheers.) He had also stated last session that
the recruiting for the militia could always be effected
by persons of influence who exerted themselves for that
purpose ; and he proposed that a pecuniary fine should
be imposed upon each district where a sufficient number
of recruits was not obtained. It was more than pro•
bable that no fine would ever have been imposed, because
the exertions of those persons would have been sufficient
to prevent the imposition of such a fine. But, instead
of proposing this fine, the noble duke had suggested the
probability of a resort being had to that most objection.
able of courses—the ballot. He (the Earl of Ellen.
borough) had ventured to propose a fine, but the propo-
sition was rejected because her Majesty's Ministers were
in a dream, and bad not yet made up their minds as to
the reality and magnitude of the undertaking upon which
they were embarking. He repeated his determination to
oppose the measure now brought forward, because he
thought it totally unnaccssarv, and injurious and op-
pressive to the people, who had already done so
much, and had shown such a disposition to submit to
any sacrifices for the purpose of carrying on the
war. lie opposed the measure, because he thought
the effect of it would be to give us an inferior
description of force. It was a measure calculated to
lead to very serious consequences in the general ad-
ministration of the country, and was contrary to all
the constitutional principles which had obtained in the
best times of what was called the Whig Adminiatra.
tion, and was only acted upon in those times when the
Ministers succumbed to the German dispositions and
prejudices of the First Lord—it was a measure which
was not in accordance with the more recent feelings of
Trhyeop ropooksietio onf.
RICHMOND, in his powers
the people, and he should feel/ it his duty to offer to it
eve
after expressing a hope
that the Government would not think of enlisting pri-
soners of war or deserters, stated his anxiety to remove
any erroneous opinion which may be formed of the
value of foreign troops by any statements made by the
noble earl. He felt it to be but an act of justice to the
brave officers who had served throughout the Peninsular
war to bear witness to their zeal and gallantry upon
every occasion, when serving with the British forces.
In the Peninsula the King's German Legion was at.
tached to the division of the Guards, and was caa•
stantly brought up as a reserve when the danger was
most pressing. On the occasion of the famous sortie
at Badajoz, that legion nobly performed its duty, and
the light corps of that body, under the command of Sir
Colin Halkett, acted as well as any of our light infantry
regiments, and the German cavalry was quite equal to
our own cavalry. (Cheers.)
After a short pause, and no noble lord. having risen
to address the house,
The Earl of DERBY expressed his surprise that no
Minister of the Crown present had ventured to address
their lordships in reply to the powerful speech made by
the noble earl (the Earl of Ellenborough). He (the Earl of
Derby), in his extreme and; perhaps, overweening
anxiety not to interrupt the progress of the public bad-
ness more than was absolutely necessary, had, before he
saw the present bill, or knew the exact nature of its am.
tents, engaged with some members of the government
that any oppesition whisk he might desire to offer to
the bill should be reserved for going into committee, in
order that no time should be lost in the progress of the
measure ; so that, if his noble friend should persist in
his intention to oppose the second reading of the bill,
he should, in consequence of that engagement, not feel
at liberty to vote with him. He regretted that his
noble friend, while doing justice to the valour, of the
British troops, should have felt it necessary to say a
single word in disparagement with respect to the mode
in which the German Legion had acted with our troops
during the last war, or should suppose it impossible that
there should be any foreigners who were not capable a
vindicating their claim to the honour of fighting with
the British troops in a cause of common danger.
(Cheers.) He believed that if we now had the old Ger-
man Legion, with all its feelings of sympathy and
almost of countrymanahip, with common feelings and
common interests, now engaged by the side of the Britisk
army, those troops would fully vindicate their anoieat
reputation for bravery and gallantry. The noble duke
at the head of the War Department had treated the
matter somewhat lightly, and had even expressed a doubt
whether it was not within the prerogative of the Crown,
even without the sanction or consent of Parliament, to
enlist foreign troops for the defence of the country, but
stated that he thought, perhaps, the better course would
be in the present instance to apply to Parliament, inas-
much as in 1794, and again in 1804, the previous consent
of the Parliament to such a course was taken by the
Crown. The noble duke had somewhat understated his
case, for in the act of 1804, not merely was this consent
given, but it also contained a clause of indemnity for
those Ministers who had undertaken to enlist foreigners
in the service without having obtained the previous
sanction of Parliament. In his opinion, the jealousy of
Parliament was a well-founded one against the employ-
ment by the Crown of any such power, and no precedent
as of the slightest value as affecting the measure now
sought to be introduced. Who were the foreigners
proposed to be enlisted in 1804 and 1806 ? The act of
1804 specified that there were a considerable number of
' foreigners resident in this country who had been driven
from their own country, and consented that the Crown
should be permitted to avail itself of the services of those
men, who were anxious to obtain the re-occupation of
their country. A very large proportion of those people
were, in fact, not foreigners at all ; they wort Hanove-
rilip, and as the crowns of England and Hanover were
then united upon the same head, they were subjects of
the same sovereign, and were engaged in the battles of
the same sovereign, and they possessed the same sym-
pathies with the people of this country, and no distinc-
tion could be drawn betwoen them. (The Duke of
Argyll here made some observations which we under-
stood were to the effect that the troops new proposed
to be employed also possessed the same sympathies.)
The noble earl, resuming his remarks, asked what nation
it was whose troops were to be employed that possessed
the same sympathies ? What were the troops that were
about to be employed ? The noble duke who had intro-
duced the bill had said that he did not know who they
were. Were they to be Greeks 1 (A. laugh.)
The Duke of NEWCASTLE, with oonsiderable
warmth, said that he had not stated that he did not
know who were the troops proposed to be enlisted.
What he had said was, that until communications had
been made with the foreign governments it would not be
right that he should state them to the house. He re-
gretted that the noble earl appeared to be anxious of
following his old precedent of misstating the facts and
arguments addressed to their lordships. (Cheers.)
The Earl of DERBY was happy to see, last night,
that the noble duke was somewhat more humble and
civil than usual, while making his defence, but was sorry
to find that he was now returning to his old habits,
which were not quite in accordance with that courtesy
usually exhibited by most members of their lordships
house towards each other. (A laugh.) But the other
noble duke had stated that a sympathy did exist between
the troops which were about to be employed and those
of this country. He (the Earl of Derby) was, however,
ignorant that there was that sympat.hfy ;hthne Elesopdleekoef
this country did not know it,banudt
Ito tdreavvotheir s
knew from whence they were about
their lordships ; and until Parliament
plies, he had at all eventsno a C 011dt l d
knewed tow h ion fwoser tapr
e
audkideictitoenfaeureyaesmon.
ownasthaens
l
for that cons
the men to bteituemtiopnl
jeedatlohuersye
ployment of foreign troops. When a bill of that kind
Was brought forward and treated by the Government as
a matter of course—when it was proposed to substitute
for our own troops a foreign force of 15,000 men for the
defence of our arsenals and towns—he thought there was
some ground for jealousy on the part of the Parliament
and the people, and some necessity for a little further
information. In 1804, u he had already saies a large
portion of the troops were subjects of the same sove-
reign as those of our own army ; there were, too,
among them the subjects of that deposed monarch
with whom we *ere in alliance, and whom we were
trying to replace upon the throne ; others wore
the subjects of nations whose country had been over-
run and had been subjugated by the power of Franco..
With all these men we ;sad a common cause, and
they were fighting for their own nation, for their own
interests, and for their own country, and in that way
you had a perfect security for their conduct
m . in the field.
From From whence did they propose to draw their forces now
they going to form a Polish legion 1 There would be
The Government refused to tell the Parliament. Were
some significance in such a course as that. There would
rest, and we should be secure of
Cheers.) The Govern-
in such a force as that be something
ef
fore
cl ieke e
wahceomperneeoenesienra
perfect hostility
oa t
t oft e world who were ready,
• in any quer er
mercenaries
to be placed by the side of our
against
to draw the treops from any
meat appeared t
for the mere sake of pays,
question of grave importance
own forces. This wan
Government in
he thought
in the first year of the
w' indication of the
diatearalthough after two years
of war, being compelled to come down
pressure .
.j-of
of the population of England, Scotland, and
to Parliament with the humiliating confession that the
millions
Ireland were not able to turn out a force which would
enable the Government to send 50,000 men to the scene
of hostilities—that they were unable to draw supplies ,
of men for the due maintenance of the garrisons abroad
and for keeping peace at home, and were compelled
to place a humiliating reliance upon the aid of mer-
cenary power, as well calculated to give encourage-
ment to the Emperor of Russia. What encouragement
could be so great to the Emperor of Russia as to hear
that our War Minister had come down in the first year
of t,lic war, and had stated that we had exhausted our
military resources, and that we could not man our garri-
sons in the Mediterranean nor could preserve peace at
home, without relying upon the aid of mercenaries. He
took this bill in connection with the whole scheme for
augmenting the military resources of the country which
hat been submitted to Parliament by the advisers of
the Crown. The three measures which had been pro-
posed must be taken in connection with each other, and
to increase the number of companies in each regiment one
as forming part of one plan. One of' these bills proposed
active service in such A manner that there should be
available r)r actual service iu the field eight out of the
four were to formt_tebr
codmpaniei
anced
eiedsit;e7ancan, and four oe
sgiexateredniecothmepal:i
to firm
but thought that a better
arrangement a depot in this country. Tothat propos.aittre
not only took no objection,
arrangement could not possibly have I.een made, and a
that measure had been falowed up by one whichave
ig —,
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