The Sun.
London, England, 1854-03-04 00:00:00

COUNTY COURTS.

Lord BROUGHAM said it appeared that the finan-
cial statement of the Government was to be made in
the other house on Monday, and he wished to know
whether the Lord Chancellor had received any report
from the County Court Commissioners as to the pro-
priety of paying the judges and officers of the county
courts out of the consolidated fund, instead of, as at pre-
sent, by fees exacted from the imitors ?
The LORD CHANCELLOR said he had not re-
ceived such a report, -but as soon as he did he should
give it his best attention.
THE NEW REFORM BILL.

The Earl of DERBY--My lords, I am induced, in
consequence of certain rumours, and perhaps I may say
somewhat more than rumours, which have acquired a
good deal of force and consistency during the last week,
to put a question to the noble lord at the head of the
Government, of which I have given him notice in the
course of the day, and to which I hope he will have no
difficulty or hesitation in giving an answer. My lords,
you will recollect that, m her Majesty's Speech from the
Throne, her Majesty was advised to recommend to the
consideration of Parliament in the course of the present
session the law affecting the representation of the people
in Parliament ; and that, at a very early period after the
delivery of that speech, the noble lord the leader of the
House of Commons, gave notice in another place of his
intention to bring in a bill for the purpose of effecting a
reform in the representation of the people. My lords,
both upon the occasion of that first announcement of
this intention, and also upon a subsequent occasion, her
Majesty's Government were appealed to by friends and
by foes, more especially by a noble earl whom I do not
now see in his place (Earl Grey), and by various other
noble lords—and I believe in the other House of Par-
liament similar appeals were made—not to introduce, at
a period when it was important that all the enerOes of
the country shquld be concentrated in preparing for that
great and formidable war, in which it was obvious to
every one we were about to be engaged—not, I say, to
distract the country by introducing a subject of bitter-
ness and animosity, excitement and controversy, which
would divide parties at a time when it was most import-
ant that they should be united. I believe the answer
given in the other House. of Parliament was, that her
Majesty's Government brought forward this measure in
pursuance of a pledge which they were absolutely com-
pelled to redeem. Now, if the noble earl and his colleagues
had confined themselves to the introduction of the mea-
sure in redemption of the pledge which they had given—
although I might have thought it was very imprudent to
fling down before the country a measure of such import-
ance without proceeding to its consideration—l certainly
should have made allowance for the position is which the
Government had placed themselves on a farmer occasion
by pledging themselves, as one of the points on which
they rested their claims to the confidence of the country,
to bring forward a measure of reform. But, my lords,
her Majesty's Government went further than this • for,
appealed to, as I have said, by all sides of this and the
other house of Parliament, not unnecessarily to enter
into a conflict on so exciting a topic, and having the
example set them in the other.house by their opponents,
of declining to enter into this matter of controversy, by
allowing the bill to be read a first time without opposi-
tion, and almost without observation, her Majesty's
Government thought it necessary to state that they
brought forward this bill not only in performance of
this pledge, but that they considered the war which
threatened to interrupt our foreign relations, not only
formed no ground why the discussion, consideration,
and enactment of that measure should be postponed,
but that, on the contrary, their was a peculiar fitness
in bringing it forward at this particular time—(hear,
hear)—that it would be a' magnificent spectacle to
Europe and to the world to see that, while we were en-
gagged in a war, which really after all could not be of
very great importance with a power like Russia—(a
laugh)—we were able at the same time—considering
war a matter of secondary importance—to apply our
undivided attention to the reform and improvement of
domestic institutions. That has been the statement
made on the part of the Government both in this house
and the other house of Parliament ; and accordingly a
day was fixed for the second reading of that measure
of reform—an interval, I think, of three weeks or a
month from the period when it was first introduced into
Parliament—a period certainly sufficiently long to en-
able the country to form, as I think they have formed,
a very decided opinion with regard to the merits of the
proposition, and to give the members of the other house
of Parliament an opportunity of considering the course
they ought to take. But I confess that, although it is
with great satisfaction, yet, after what has taken place,
it is with some surprise that in the course of the last three
or four days I find rumours have been very rife, that
a general expectation is entertained—notwithstanding
all the peculiar propriety of this time—notwithstanding
the little influence which the state of our foreign rela-
tions need now exercise on matters of domestic policy
—(a laugh)—that, after all, this measure of reform, on
which the Government rest their claims to the support
of the country, and which they brought forward in re-
demption of a most solemn pledge, given in the face of
Parliament, is to be allowed to lie on the table of the
other house of Parliament, and is not intended at all
events for the present to be proceeded with. I think
her Majesty's Government have done very wisely if they
have adopted the course of postponing, if not abandon-
ing, during the present session, this measure of reform.
At the same time it appears to me inconsistent with the
declarations which they volunteered, and with the strong
assertions they made, of the necessity, for their own
character, and for the advantage of the country, of press-
ing this measure forward ; and, under these circum-
stances, I venture to ask the noble earl opposite whether
it is true that her Majesty's Government intend to post-
pone the consideration of that measure ; and, if it be
true, for what length of time that measure is to be post-
poned ; and whether it is to be considered as a postpone-
ment or an abandonment of the measure for the present
session, or whether at a late period of the present ses-
sion a question of this kind is to be taken into conside-
ration by the House of Commons ; and, if passed by that
house —of which I confess I entertain considerable
doubts—it is to be sent up to your lordships' house at a
still later period of the session, and at a time when, in
all probability, we shall be engaged in a foreign war. I
hope the noble lord will not say this is a question pecu-
liarly belonging to the House of Commons ; for al-
though it may peculiarly affect the representation in
that house, yet I think that neither the noble lord, nor
any of your lordships, will consider that a question of
making a material alteration in that house, and in
point of fact, of the constitution of the country,
is not a matter in which your lordships are as
deeply interested as the other house of Parliament
itself. My question, . therefore, is whether it is
infended to proceed, as was announced, with the
consideration of the Reform Bill, or whether that bill is
to be postponed ; and, if postponed, whether it is to be
postponed to some definite or indefinite period of the
present session ?

The Earl of ABERDEEN—My lords, although the
measure referred to by the noble earl is now before the
other house of Parliament, and although my noble friend
who has charge of that measure will this night make a
statement of the course intended to be pursued by her
Majesty's Government, and notwithstanding the bill,
as the noble lord observed, relates mainly and entirely
to the representation of the people in Parliament, I do
not in the least complain of the noble earl for taking the
course which he has now thought proper to do. The
interest and importance of this subject fully justify him
in the course he has pursued, and I have no hesitation
in giving him the answer which he desires to have. My
lords, your lordships are aware that the second reading
of this bill now stands for the 13th day of this month.
In answer to the noble earl, on the bench below me, at
a very early period of the session, I replied to the ques-
tion put by him on that occasion, when he asked me
whether the bill would be introduced before the army
and navy estimates would be laid on the table, by stat-
ing that it would be so ; and I also added that the con-
sideration of the measure would not be hastily pressed,
so as to interfere with the progress of the public service,
in making those preparations which the exigencies of
the times [rendered necessary. My lords, in conse-
quence, the 13th March, although I believe the bill was
read on the 13th February for the first time, was fixed
for the second reading. It will then have been before
the country for a month.- The noble earl has said that
the country has had a full opportunity to form an opi-
nion upon the nature of the measure. I know not what
may be the opinion of the noble earl, or what he sup-
' poses the opinion of the country may be. But this I
say, that her Majesty's Government have had no rea-
son to be dissatisfied with the opinion of the country
upon that measure, SQ far as it has been expressed.
eCheers.) I believe it has found favour with the coun-
t' y —(hear, hear)--that it has been considered as a just,
a I,;beral, an honest, and a safe measure. (Cheers.) But my
lords, although I admit that the calamity of war must
necessarily interfere with all social progress, still I am
not aware that it is absolutely necessary that this curse
which we are to endure is to impede and utterly prevent
all domestic improvement. My lords, when I said, in
answer to the noble earl below me, that the necessary
measures would be taken to provide for the public ser-
vice, in contemplation of this calamity then impending,
I gave that reason which now it is necessary for me to
repeat. I see that the necessary supplies have not yet
been passed for the service in which we are about to en-
gage. TWO Tory night n vote Will be proposed for an

additional 15,000 men ; and on Monday, as my noble
and learned friend opposite (Lord Brougham) hits oh-
served, the financial prospects and measures of the year
for providing for this increased expenditure will be laid
before the other house of Parliament. Her Majesty's
Government have thought it right, not only to provide
a sufficient force for the great operations in which we
may be engaged, but to provide the means by which the
expense of that force may be defrayed. This I think it
is the duty of Government to do, and this it is which we
propose to do. pider these circumstances, therefore,
my noble friend who has charge, of this bill, will propose
to-night to postpone the second reading of the measure
until an early day after Easter—that is, until the 27th
of April. On that (lay it is the intention of my noble
friend to move the second reading of the bill. (Cheers.)