The Sun.
London, England, 1854-08-08 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS-(YESTERDAY.)

RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT SECURITIES BILL,-
This bill was read a third time.
On the question that the bill do pass,
Sir F. KELLY said he dissented from the bill alto-
gether, He considered, as the bill now stood, there was
nothing in it to prevent any one from subscribing to a
Russian loan. The hon. and learned gentleman moved
to leave out clause 1, and substitute the following :—Be
it enacted, that, during the continuance of hostilities be-
tween her Majesty and Emperor of Russia, any person who
shall wilfully or knowingly subscribe to or for, or purchase
or take in exchange, anyloan, stocks, funds, scrip, bonds,
debentures, or securities for money, which, since the
29th day of March, 1854, have or have been, or which,
during the continuance of hostilities as aforesaid, shall
be, negotiated, created, entered into, or secured by or in
the name of the Government of Russia, or any person or
persons on its behalf, shall be guilty of a misdemeanour,
and in Scotland of an offence punishable with fine
and imprisonment : Provided always, that this act
shall not extend to any subscription or purchase
effected or made in any foreign country by any com-
mercial house or firm trading and having a place
of business in any foreign country, and whereas
one or more British subjects, and one or more aliens,
are partners, or jointly interested. To add proviso to
Clause 1 :—Provided always, that this act shall not ex-
tend to anything done in any foreign country, by any
commercial house or firm trading and having a place of
business in any foreign country, and wherein one or
more British subjects, and one or more aliens are part-
ners, or jointly interested, nor to the taking by any
person of any such stocks, funds, scrip, debentures, or
securities, or any interest therein, in satisfaction of, or as
security for, any debt bona fide and lawfully due to such
person, nor to the taking of any such stocks, funds,
scrip, bends, debentures, or securities, or any interest
therein, as parcel of the estate or effects of any deceased
person, or of any debtor in execution, or of any debtor
having in any country become bankrupt, insolvent, or
whose estate, or any part thereof, shall have become
transferable, or shall be transferred in any way what-
• ever for the benefit of bond fide creditors.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said he had endea-
voured on the second reading to give some explanation
of the bill. But he must repeat that the law already
extended to loans made to a country with which we are
at war. With regard to the clause itself, he thought
the effect of it would be to dilute the original proposition
down to a mere milk-and-water measure. He would
not advise the house to interfere at all with the law
of high treason, but leave that law as it was,
and consequently 111 should oppose the amendment.
Mr. HUME asked whether it would not be better to
drop the bill at present, which, though its intention was
good, would cripple the interests of our own country-
men abroad and at home in commercial transactions, and
would not answer any purpOse for which It was intended.
Lord D. STUART said he was not at all convinced
by the arguments he had heard against the bill
that it would not be an efficient bill. The war itself

was against the interests of commerce, and this bill

was essentially a war bill. He maintained that
if people were to make money whenever or wherever
they could get it, why then repeal the law of high
treason. It was said the other night that the committee
of the Stock Exchange, with those patriotic feelings
which distinguished them—(laughter)—prevented this
loan from being quoted in the market. What was the
fact ? The committee of the Stock Exchange had done
no such thing, and the hon. member for Lambeth (Mr.
Wilkinson) would tell them that they had not. Then it
was said that the bill was not necessary, because re-
spectable people would not purchase the stock. The
misfortune was, that all people were not respectable and
virtuous, for then they need have no laws at all. (A.
laugh.) But they wanted laws against those whose
cupidity was not able to resist the temptations to which
they might be exposed, though adverse to the interest of
their own conntry. He might say of this bill that it was
one of the best abused that ever came under the consi-
deration of the house. It was called puerile, inefficient,
absurd, the whim of an individual with a peculiar idio-
syncrasy—(laughter)—and adopted by the noble lord
because he was the friend of the individual having that
idiosyncrasy—that it was a melancholy abortion ; yet,
notwithstanding all this abuse of the bill, it was sus-
tained on three divisions. by majorities of three to one.
Mr. WILKINSON said he had a very great respect
for the noble lord, who was the grandfather of the bill—
(laughter)—but he believed that it was useless. He did
not approve of the alterations proposed by the hon. and
learned gentleman. He objected to the principle of the
measure, and he hoped the credit of the house would not
be damaged by passing such a bill. With regard to the
Stock Exchange, it was not their business to interfere
with international law. What they had done was to
pass a rule for the benefit of their own subscribers. The
rule made by the committee of the Stock Exchange was
that they would not sanction or take cognizance of any
bargains, in loans, bonds, stocks, or other securities,
issued by foreign Governments, that had not paid their
dividends on former loans. He agreed with his hon.
friend that it was impossible to distinguish between
these bonds and the other produce of Russia.
Lord J. RUSSELL said it was useless now to discuss
the principle of the bill. With regard to the disadvantage
to trade and commerce, and the hardship which this bill
would inflict on them, the same argument would apply
in the case of those who lent money directly to Russia,
and who, by the existing law, would be guilty of high
treason. Why not say that, in the latter case, it would
be a cruel and great obstruction to trade ? The present
bill was, in principle, a matter of the same kind ; but
whether they could attain the object in view by law was
another question. (Hear.) He could not agree in the
amendment proposed by the hon. and learned gentleman
opposite, which went to exempt partners in foreign
countries from the operation of the law. That offered
an obvious mode of evasion from the penalties of the
bill. The foreign partners in a house might think it
advisable to fit out a privateer to the injury of British
commerce, yet the partner here would be liable to the
penalties in that case. Though the bill might not affect
any great advantage, he believed it was right on prin-
ciple. (Hear.)
The clause was negatived without a division.
Sir F. KELLY then proposed to add the following
proviso to clause 1 in the bill :—" Provided always, that
this act shall not extend to anything done in any foreign
country by any commercial house or firm trading and
having a place of business in any foreign country, and
wherein one or more British subjects, and one or more
&Lim /ire pArtnorg, or jointly interested, uor to the
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taking by any person of any such stocks, funds, scrip,
debentures, or securities, or any interest therein, in sa-
tisfaction of, or as a security for, any debt bona fide and
lawfully due to such person, nor to the taking of any
such stocks, funds, scrips, bonds, debentures, or securi-
ties, or any interest therein, as parcel of the estate or
effects of any deceased person, or of any debtor in exe-
cution, or of any debtor having in any country become
bankrupt, insolvent, or whose estate, or any part there-
of, shall have become transferable, or shall be transferred
in any way whatever for the benefit of bona fide credi-
tors." He agreed that no aid should be given to the
Emperor of Russia, but where was the use after the
loan had been subscribed for that a stop should be put
to commerce by preventing the circulation of the bonds.
The proviso was negatived without a division.
On the question that the bill do pass, the 11009
divided—

For the third reading 5l
Against it l3
Majority —3B
The bill was then passed.
BRIBERY, &c., BILL.
Lord J. RUSSELL—I believe, sir, that you will
take the chair at 2 o'clock to-morrow. I was in hopes
that we should have had to-day from the Lords the hill
with respect to bribery and corrupt practices at elections;
had the house sat an hour later I have no doubt we
should have received it. However, I believe lam keel?:
ing within the orders of the house when I say, that ag it
is of great importance that the bill should receive the
Royal assent early—l hope it will on Thursday. I shall
move that the Lords' amendments be taken. into ow
sideration to-morrow if they be received by that time.
Mr. WALPOLE—At two o'clock ?
Lord J. RUSSELL intimated his assent.
RETURNS.
On the motion of Mr. HUME, the following returng.
were ordered :—Copy of the despatch from the Court of
Directors of the East India Company to Bengal, in the
military department, of the 16th day of March, 1853, In
reply to the military letter from Bengal, dated the 29t1
day of September, 1852, respecting the appointing e;
officers of her Majesty's service to officers heretofore held
only by military officers of the .East India Compaq'
Return of the number of divisional and brigade Oft
mands of the army under each of the Presidencies
in
India, distinguishing the number of those cominww
held by her Majesty's officers, and those held by COI3I.
pany's officers.

. _
POSTAL COMMUNICATION BETWEEN Tiq
CAPE OF GOOD HOPE AND THE MAljl4'.
TIUS.

In reply to a question from Mr. Hums,
Mr. J. WILSON was understood to say that th
vi./.
contract which expired about a year ago had not bee,t`
renewed, but that a steam-vessel had been put on o
run between the Mauritius and Ceylon.
MEDICAL GRADUATES' BILL.
weed
On the motion of Lord J. RUSSELL it was agr,ed
that the Lords' amendments in the Medical Gradus'
Bill should be considered this day (Tuesday)".
PUBLIC BUSINESS.
On the motion of Lord J. RUSSELL, it was agrueeala
that on the following (this) day, orders of the day 011°
have precedence of notices of motion.
The house then adjourned.