The Sun.
London, England, 1853-11-11 00:00:00

7--
ti 4.
qualified and paid admireators of justice appoint
yr '!: by the Crown. I think it would be desirable to
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se r the existing connection between the corporation
nd the trading companies of the City, as I see no
),1,1 • dvantage in maintaining that connection. The accounts
etvt +
of the corporation certainly require revision—they ought
to be fully investigated, audited, And laid before the
public more intelligibly. As they stand at present (to
use a common expression), no one can makd either head
or tail of them. The mode of keeping the accounts is
very complicated, and when I have often asked persons
whom I thought competent to answer me, " What is the
revenue of the city of London ?" nobody could tell me.
The system of accounts adopted has grown complicated
by the lapse of time and the course of events, and it is
certainly susceptible of great improvement.
The Chairman—Have you any other observations to
address to the commissioners ?
Mr. Dillon—Any one taking up the map of London,
and looking to the boundaries of the city, would first
conceive the idea that the area ought to be extended
so as to embrace the whole metropolis, with its 2,000,000
and upwards of inhabitants. Now, a municipal body of
tsuch gigantic proportions is open to very grave object
tions. If in the hands of the Government it would be
destructive of the rights of the inhabitants, and if left as
a perfectly independent body it would be so powerful as
on the other hand to he dangerous to the Govern-
ment. Again, the population of the metropolis was
not at all homogeneous —the pursuits and the wants and
necessities of different districts are very varied and
diverse, and what was suited for Marylebone, for in-
stance, might not be at all adapted for the City. It
would not be desirable suddenly and violently to destroy
the corporation of the City ; but corporations might be
given to the other metropatan districts, without their
applying for them under the Charter Act.
The Chairman—Do you mean that they should be
compelled to receive municipal institutions whether they
wished for them or not ?
Mr. Dillon—l do ;it being a public advantage that
there should be a species of federal boards established in
the metropolis—one, for instance to take the manage.
ment of the police ; another, that of the lightning, sew-
erage, and water supply of the whole community ;
another, that of the Thames couservancy, including the
port and the regulation of the trade and commerce of
the City. For this purpose I would take from the City
its present powers and privileges, and so exercise them
as not to produce a sudden or dangerous effect. The
City corporation, with all its abuses and defects, has
promoted the interests and prosperity of the public and
of the country at large. Therefore it would be with
great hesitation that I should take anything out of its
hands and place it in the hands of the centralised autho-
rity—the Government.
The Chairman—Might not the joint action in the
matters you have enumerated be obtained in the metro-
polis, without compelling the whole of London to ac-
cept municipal institutions ?
Mr. Dillon—lt would be very desirable if there

FIPRicE SD•

The Chairman—What do you conceive to be the rea-
son for this ?

Mr. Hubbard—l scarcely know, but I can say that
I was once offered an alderman's gown, and I declined
it for this reason. It occurred to me that the admi-
nistration of justice was too important and too solemn a
duty to be undertaken unless a person had the proper
education and sufficient time for the discharge of such a
trust. I felt that it was incompatible with my position
a 3 a merchant to go through the requisite training to fit
me for the office, and I could not consent to run the
risk of maladministering justice to myself, or adopt the
only other alternative of leaving my judicial functions to
the clerk, who might be very competent to exorcise
them, but at the same time I would have to be respon-
sible for his decisions.

The Chairman—lf the corporation of London were
brought into closer resemblance to the corporation of
Liverpool and the other great cities of the country, do you
think there would still he the same indisposition on the
part of the great merchants to accept municipal offices,
such as that of the Lord Mayor, for instance ?
Hr. Hubbard—l know so little of Liverpool that I
cannot sufficiently judge. I only know that there is an
indisposition to become aldermen among the leading
merchants of London.

The Chairman--Supposing it were not necessary to
be an alderman to become lord mayor do you think the
great merchants of the city of London would be averse
to taking the office of chief magistrate, as a matter of
public duty, for one year, and without having to go
through the preliminary duties of an alderman ?
Mr. Ilubard—lf the office were not connected with
a 'sacred trust like that of the administration of jus-
tice, the case might be different ; but then, on that
supposition, I do not know what the duties of the office
would be—they might merely be to go through all the
civic array and grandeur.
The Chairman—The pageantry which now surrounds
office of Lord Mayor I imagine is no inducement to a
first-rate merchant to take the office ?

Mr. Hubbard—lt is anything but attractive.
Mr. C. Lewis—You must be aware of the constitu-
tion of the corporation, and of the manner in which it is
administered—have 'you formed any opinion as to any
defects which may exist in that body, or as to the mode
of remedying them ?

Mr. Hubbard—You are mistaken in your premises—
I know nothing of the corporation. I only know one
alderman slightly, who is a member of the Bank of Eng-
land—l mean Alderman Thompson ; and I have not
learnt anything of their constitution or their admini-
stration.

could.

Mr. C. Lewis—According to your plan, the City
would remain within its present limits as a city corpo-
ration,and the remaining portion of the metropolis
would be
partitioned among several municipal bodies,
such as the corporation of Finsbury, the corporation of
Marylebone, &c. ?
Mr. Dillon—Yes.
Mr. C. Lewis —But you also said that, with regard o
other regulations, it would be desirable to have separate
boards, possessing a jurisdiction extending over the
whole of the metropolis.
Mr. Dillon—Yes.
Mr. C. Lewis—Do you think that the police juris-
diction ought to extend over the whole of the metropo-
lis ; and not be longer divided into the City and metro•
politan police respectively ?
Mr. Dillon—Certainly.
Mr. C. Lewis—Do you think it desirable that the
sewerage should be placed under a single authority, and
not under a board of sewers for the north side of the
river, with the exception of the City, and another and
distinct board for the City alone ?
Mr. Dillon—Certainly.
Mr. C. Lewis—What would you recommend with re-
spect to the lighting and paving ? Would you place
them under parochial or municipal regulation, or would
you place the paving and lighting of the metropolis
under one board ?
Mr. Dillon—l am afraid that I am leaving our cor-
poration nothing to do, but I confess that, seeing the
inconvenience to the public consequent on the streets
being opened at different places at one time, I think
the paving and lighting also ought to be placed under
one board.
Mr. C. Lewis—The present supply of water for the
metropolis is in the hands of several independent com-
panies—would you take it out of the hands of those
companies, and place it under the municipalities, or
under one board ?
Mr. Dillon—l see no reason for taking the water
supply out of the hands of private enterprise. I would
heave it in the hands of the water companies.
Mr. C. Lewis—You say that the magistracy ought to
be chosen by the Ministers of the Crown ?
Mr. Dillon—Yes.
Mr. C. Lewis—Well, now, tell us what municipal
functions would remain for the City corporation and the
other corporations of the different metropolitan boroughs
to discharge ?
Mr. Dillon : I believe that the tendency of the view I
take is, that I would alternately arrive at nearly the
same result as those seek to attain who advocate a more
extensive change ; but the difference between me and
them is, that I am favourable to a more gradual mode of
accomplishing nearly the same end as they desire.
Mr. C. Lewis—ls the City corporation not possessed
of a large amount of trust property, independent of the
revenue from its rates, taxes, and dues ?
Mr. Dillon—lt is.
Mr. C. Lewis—Do you not think it would be a legi-
timate object, in improving the system of corporation,
o endeavour to secure a good administration of thos

Mr. C. Lewis--Then you have formed no opinion on
the subject ?

Mr- Hubbard—l have not.
The witness then retired. The next witness called
was

Mr. John Dillon, of the firm of Morrison, Dillon, and
Co., wholesale warehousemen, Fore-street, City, who
stated that he had been a merchant in the City of Lon-
don for may years, but had never been connected with
the corporation.
The Chairman—• Have you formed any opinion on the
constitution of the corporation ?
Mr. Dillon—l feel convinced that the City corpora-
tion, if as perfect as man can make it, must be extended
beyond the present area and limits of the City.
Mr. C. Lewis—On what do you base that opinion ?
Mr. Dillon—On the necessity of uniformity of plan
with regard to the police for instance, in order that the
powers of the police may not cease at Temple-bar. Then,
with respect to sewerage, there ought to be some large
and complete plan ; and there ought to be no conflicting
jurisdiction on such important matters. I mention these
as illustrations.

The Chairman—Could there not be a uniform system
of police and of sewerage without abolishing the munici-
pal functions of the City altogether ?
Mr. Dillon--Decidedly. If I were asked whether I
should propose a total abolition of the corporation, I
should say decidedly not. It has existed from ancient
times, and has gradually grown up and mixed itself with
the manners and institutions of the City. It certainly
retains many obsolete, some useless, and some objection-
able customs ; but I think it very far from desirable
suddenly and entirely to do away with it. The re-
form of some of its institutions and the abolition of
some offices are desirable ; and if municipal func-
tions_ were given to Finsbury, Marylebone, South-
wark, Lambeth, and the other metropolitan boroughs,
you might have the means of hereafter—but not
immediately—creating, out of this series of corpora.
tions, boards for the management of sewerage and the
police of the whole metropolis ; and all this without
danger to the corporation of the city of London. The
witness then proceeded to give evidence with regard to
the manner in which freemen were enrolled 20 or 30
years ago, and also of the reduction which had been
made of late years in the fees paid by the citizens on
being admitted to civic privileges ; and he gave it as his
opinion that a nominal fee should still be demanded
from persons on taking up their freedom, such fee being
only designed to cover he necessary expenses.
The Chairman—Will you pass now to the next point
if you please ?
Mr. Dillon—With regard to the reluctance of the
bankers and merchants of the City to accept office in the
corporation, I think that too much stress is laid upon
that circumstance when it is used as an argument for the
total abolition or the thorough alteration of the corpo-
ration of the City. The corporation, no doubt, has
many defects, and things in it which wore originally
harmless, have by the lapse of time become obsolete and
wrong ;
• butl doubt the soundness of the argument
based upon the non-accentanco of corporate offices by
the leading merchants. Seine, the richest bankers
and merchants in the City, had fathers and grand-
fathers who once served as aldermen and Lord
Mayor ; and a large 'class of existing merchants, al-
,
though they object to the system of the corporation,
have prospered and amassed their fortunes under it. To
some extent also the contempt cast upon municipal
office in the City is simply an excuse for neglecting
the duties attached to them ; ,and I feel satisfied,
whatever change you may make in the City corpo-
ration, and although you clear away all the
nonsense of the Lord Mayor's Show, that the
large bankers and merchants will still be re-
luctant to take office. I cannot explain why this
is, but there is something peculiar about the city
of London, the merchants of which have almost a na-
tional character, and this makes them devote their leisure
time and direct their ambition to other objects—to the
House of Commons, perhaps, or other places. With re-
spect to Chambers of Commerce, I have seen several
attempts made—but all unsuccessfully made—in the city
of London to establish such an institution. The example
of other large ports has been quoted in support of the
adoption of such a tribunal for the purposes of commerce;
but for some reason or other, whether it be jealousy, a
peculiar bent and turn of mind, or the largeness of the
community, I cannot tell what, the leading men in the
City have shown an indisposition to form such a combi-
nation.

funds?
Mr. Dillon—Yes, under public control, but not under
the control of the Government. This trust property
ought to be exclusively in the hands of the corporation
itself.

Mr. C. Lewis—Do you think that the property of the
City ought to be applied to objects which are exclusively
connected with the present area of the city, or that they
can be legitimately applied to objects and purposes use-
ful to the metropolis at large ?
Mr. Dillon—l do not think that it can be fairly ap-
plied to objects out of the City.
Mr. C. Lewis—Do you think it possible to find ob-
jects within the limits of the City to which the whole
might be applied T.
Mr. Dillon—l do.
Mr. C. Lewis—Give us an idea of such objects.
Mr. Dillon—The widening of the streets, the improve-
ment of buildings, and the like.
Mr. C. Lewis—Objects in the nature of public work s
you mean ?
Mr. Dillon—Yes.
The Chairman—Have you any reason to complain o
the trade regulations of the City, se far as your own
business is concerned ?
Mr. Dillon—l have not.
The examination of this witness having been con-
cluded, the commission then adjourned till this da y
(Friday).

THE PACIFIC AUSTRALIAN ROUTE. The American
The mail
was .
on thepapers received in London yesterday by the Atlantic
Port
Tucker,ilThe ship
fromPcontain Australian intelligence received via Callao,
which comes down to within four days of the dates
brought l
conveyed
k byC a t
t,
h eAa
prgaois na sailing ln °
Farnham vessel.Pot Philip.ii.
Melbourne, Port Philip, whence she sailed
of August, arrived at Callao on the 29th 20th
mouthß
of September,
--thus snaking the passage in thirty
the shortest on record. She came t -nine days—
the Shears, Off New Zealand, o the southward of
53.30 south, where she was drivenpassed the parallel of
an easterly wind, which
lasted
steered to strike her original two days ; thence she
passed to the eastward of St.
track to the eastward ;
the islands of Chin I St. Felix Island, and made
becalmed two d csa on the 30th day out. She was
days off Callao.
nor seen on the No vessels were spoken
passage.
DEATH OF THE
"the sleeping SLEEPING MAN.—Cornelius Vrooman,
Clarkson, on Monday, died at his brother'residence, in
ex-
hibition in New York
the 17th of October. While on ex-
to w York he was taken which
sick,
. dand seemed
induce a wakeful state for a short
stupid condition, with intervals of pwakefulnesserso,then a
until he
was brought home on the 14th. He talked but very
little, inquiring after his mother, who had been dead two
years, his father and brothers, whom he ,seemed par-
tially to recognise. He complained of great internal
heat, and soreness of his throat and stomach. On the
morning of the day of his death he called for food, and
ate a hearty meal, and from that time he seemed to be
in pain until two o'clock, p.m., when be died without a
struggle. His age was some 34 years.—Rochester De-
mocrat.
CAUTION TO PASSIONATE PEOPLE.—On Saturday last
an inquest was held in the board-room of the union
workhouse, Wordsley, before W. H. Phillips, Esq., de-
puty coroner, upon the body of William Appleby, an
inmate of the house. The day previous the deceased
quarrelled with another inmate, named Perry, and
worked himself into such a violent fit of passion in con-
sequence, and while venting forth his rage he fell down,
and instantly expired. The jury returned a verdict that
the deceased died by the visitation of God, while in a
i violent fit of passion.—, Waverhiampton Hera./d,

Mr. C. Lewis—Formerly the bankers and principal
merchants resided within the City, but they live out of
it now—does not that make a difference in the feeling
with regard to accepting office ?
Mr. Dillon—l think it does make a great difference.

Mr. C. Lewis—Would they not naturally feel a greater
interest in the local institutions of the City if they lived
there than if they resided elsewhere ?
Mr. Dillon—Yes ; I myself am an instance in illustra-
tion of your remark. Ido not live in the City now, but
when I did so I took more interest in its affairs than I
have done since.
The Chairman—Will you go now to another point V
Mr. Dillon—There are three distinct constituent bo-
, dies in the city of London, and I would suggest the pro-
priety of their number being reduced for the sake of
simplicity with regard to political objects to one common
constituency for all elections in the city of London.
Mr. C. Lewis—Do you see any advantage in several
of the principal officers of the City being elected by a
large constituency ?
Mr. Dillon—l think (although lam inclined to libe-
ral
views on such matters) that there is sometimes an
advantage in such appointments being taken out of the
popularesahasse constituency.
to the magistracy, I
hands of L
; rouche
presume ?
Mr. Dillon—Certainly. I think, however,
election to the office of Chamberlain that the
the hands of the Common Hall. ought to be left in

Mr. C. Lewis—Are the elections in Common Hal
generally corrupt ?

Mr. Dillon—The contested elections are. The Lord
Mayor is generally chosen from the aldermen by rota-
tion, and then there is no contest. I consider that
the magisterial duties of the Lord Mayor and alder-
men ought to be placed in the hands of duly