The Sun.
London, England, 1854-06-20 00:00:00

SUPPLY.

On the vote for the sum of 164,165/. for the maintenance
of prisoners in county gaols and lunatic asylums,
Mr. SCHOLEFIELD moved the reduction of the vote
by 1001., being the salary for chaplain, on the ground that
the same rule laid down by the committee ought to be ex-
tended to all creeds.

Colonel GREVILLE complained of the insults that
were offered in that house to the Roman Catholic creed, and
urged the committee to take a wider view of the question.
Mr. CHAMBERS contended that the State could make
for prisoners only the same religious provision that it made
for those who had not forfeited their liberty.
Sir G. GREY said that the sum in question was given
between the Roman Catholic and the Protestant chap-
lains, and that if this vote were refused the unhappy indi-
viduals in the asylum would be deprived of all religious
consolation.

Mr. H. DRUMMOND said that the Government had
no right to provoke such discussions while blowing hot
and cold on the subject of Catholicism and Protestanism.
After some observations by Mr. Phinn, Mr. Adderley,
and Lord Seymour,
Mr. SPOONER declared his conviction that for a Pro-
testant nation to support a Popish priesthood was a sin.
He denied that he had abused the Roman Catholics, or had
said anything than that he believed them labouring under
a dangerous delusion. He justified the course he had taken
on a previous night in oppositing a new vote, and said that
he should support the present proposition of Government.
Lord PALMERSTON said that the vote proposed the
other night was not a new one, and that no decision of the
house had ever occasioned more painful feelings in his
mind than that which was then given. He could not have
believed that, in the present age of enlightenment and
liberality, such a vote could have been arrived at. It re-
minded him of the decay of the Eastern Empire, when,
Constantinople being besieged by the Turks, the foolish
Greeks, instead of uniting againsi the common enemy,
were fighting among themselves upon the most trivial mat-
ters. Here we havice, profligacy, and infidelity against
us, and, instead of grappling with these enemies, we were
squabbling about petty differences and refusing to mise-
rable wretches the instruction which might convert them
into useful members of society. But the proposed amend-
ment exceeded that of the other night in peculiarity. He
dwelt energetically upon the cruelty of making the un-
happy people in gaols the victims of our religious dis-
sensions.

Mr. LUCAS complained that both Church of England
and Dissenting teachers were paid, while Roman Catholics
were not, and he characterized the decision of the other
night as a shabby one. Justice was not done in our pri-
sons to the Roman Catholic prisoners. The present system
was one of torture.
Mr. S. HERBERT admitted that the present proposal
was the logical sequence of the vote of the other night.
After a tribute to the voluntary principle, to which he
said the Church was indebted for much of her present
strength and energy, he urged that this was a question
between Christianity and Heathendom. In further refer-
ence to the preceding vote, he demanded why Mr. Spooner
and those who supported him had not pushed the question
further ? Why had they not refused the grant for Roman
Catholic instruction for the army, for which there was not
so good a case as for those whose interests were now in
question ? The reason was that they dared not. He
hoped that this amendment would be rejected, because the
having clone injustice to one portion of the population was
no reason for doing injustice to another, and for refusing
the religious instruction necessary for the salvation of all,
but especially of those whom we had shut up, as was al-
leged, for reformation.
After some observations from Mr. NAPIER,
Mr. SPOONER declared that if any specific grant for
Roman Catholic chaplains for the army was asked, it had
escaped his notice ; but it should not do so again.
Mr SIDNEY HERBERT rejoined that 18,0001. a-year
lwaains v o.t
wereed forr ht
ea
spt laani
tn
as ,
aann hdd
tt
h ea tottwh
no
r-
st h
wi r
ed
rse o fßsoui
nc ha
nc ha
Ca-
tholics

Mr. JOHN O'CONNELL, though feeling that injustice
which had been done to Roman Catholics, refused to de-
prive his Protestant fellow-subjects of the consolations of
religion.
The committee divided, and the numbers were—
For the original vote 246
__ For Mr. Scholefield's amendment

The CHAIRMAN then put the vote in its original form.
In answer to a question by Colonel DUNNR as to certain
allowances made to Ireland for county rates at the time of
the repeal of the oorn laws,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he was
quite unable to inform the hon. and gallant member as to
the disposal of moneys long antecedent to his assumptiat
of OftCO. J3e would ouggest to the box., and gallant gentle.

man the propriety of moving for a return of the moneys
voted for the purposes alluded to, and the manner in
which they had been disposed of, and then he would lay
the foundation for any further proceedings which he might
think it necessary to take. That would be much more
convenient than renewing discussions of this kind without
the house being in possession of any information whatever
on the subject.

Colonel bUNNE said he would move for the appoint-
ment of a committee at the first opportunity.
After a few remarks from Mr. Macartney, Mr. W. Wil-
liams, Mr. Fitzroy, and Mr. F. French, the vote was
agreed to.

A vote of 92,765/. for the expenses of transportation of
convicts was agreed to.

On a voto of 312,702 for convict establishments in the
colonies,

Mr. G. DIINDAS desired an explanation of the disparity
between the cost of convicts at Gibraltar and in Western
Australia, the latter being more than double that of the
former.

Mr. PEEL said it might, perhaps, be accounted for by
the fact that in Western Australia large numbers of con-
victs were in service, but at Gibraltar they were in con•
finement, and provisioned by the Government.

Mr. AbDEALEY thought that was a reason why the
cost in Western Australia should be less and not more
than in Gibraltar.

Mr. PEEL stated that provisions were much dearer in
Australia, and considerable expense had been incurred in
the construction of prisons.

After some further explanations, the vote was agreed to.
The next vote of 4,0421. for civil establishments in Ber-
mudas was agreed to without observation, but it appeared
members had been unable to follow the Secretary of the
Treasury, and there was a general exclamation of Where
are we 1"

➢ir. WILSON said it was the first vote of No. 5, the
education votes, No. 4, having been postponed for a few
days, as stated by the noble lord (Lord John Russell).
Mr. WILLIAMS complained bitterly that they had not
been told that the votes were to be taken irregularly. He
had intended to objoct to the last vote, and could only say
the Government had carried it " downright surrepti-
tiously." (A laugh.) The hon. member proceeded to ask
explanations on some matters connected with the vote just
passed, which were afforded by Mr. Peel, though some-
what out of order.

On the vote, of 7,5471. for the clergy in the Bahamas and
North America,
Mr. ADDERLEY inquired whether or not the Colonial
Clergy Bill was to be proceeded with this session ?
Lord J. RUSSELL said that he could not give a decided
answer to this question, as this point had not been finally
determined. He, however, promised to give a more ex-
plicit answer upon a future day.
Another vote of 9,9381. for the Indian department of
Canada was agreed to, after which, upon the motion of Mr.
BROTEIERTON, the house resumed, and the Chairman
reported progress, and obtained leave to sit again.