The Sun.
London, England, 1853-08-13 00:00:00

Instance, referred to London and to Paris. They
_ey
were approved by her Majesty's Government and by
the French Government, and the note won as the
2d
o
St. Petersburg and to Constantinople,
of this month. The Russian Minister at Vienna
had meanwhile transmitted the substance of this
note to his Court, where it was well received,
an don the 3d of this month a telegraphic message was
ent from St. Petersburg to Vienna, announcing that that
note met the Emperor's views, and would be accepted by
him if it met with the views of the Sultan. Since that
time I have heard this morning that Count Nesselrode has
made to Sir Hamilton Seymour an official communication
that that note would be duly accepted by the Emperor.
(Hear.) As this note, slightly modified, no doubt, origi-
nating, as it did, with the French Government, contains
to the dignity or to the independence
nothing derogatory
of the Porte, I can see no difficulty in accepting it. Your
lordships will see• without going into more details upon
the subjects which my noble friend has brought under your
notice, I have endeavoured to place your lordships in pos-
session of the information which is most important in this
matter. You will now see that, although these negotia-
tions may be certainly said to be brought to the point of
a satisfactory conclusion, they are still pending, and, there-
fore, my object, and that of her Majesty's Government, is,
while these negotiations are pending—while, therefore,
there is a risk of their not coming to the satisfactory con-
clusion which all hope for—to abstain from a more full
discussion of this subject, to abstain from laying before
your lordships any papers—including perhaps the papers
moved for by my noble friend—to abstain, in fact, from
doing or saying anything which might endanger the solu-
tion which, as I said before, I am sure your lordships feel
the Government desire. (Hear, hear.)
Lord BEAUMONT complained that, instead of repelling
Russia, we had exerted ourselves to induce the wronged
party to concede a portion of the demands unjustly made
upon him. A fatal and dangerous principle had been laid
down—that something might be gained by violence and
the violation of treaties.
Lord HARDWICKE would have adopted a quicker, a
more determined, but, helbelieved, a not less pacific, course
than that which had been taken by Lord Clarendon. The
latter had addressed the house with his usual kindness,
but had told them nothing that they did not know before.
He could only hope that Government would succeed in
their negotiations, but there would be an alarming respon-
aibility on their head if Russia should refuse to quit the
provinces.
eat satisfaction
Lord CLANRICARDE hailed with gr
the assurance that the negotiations for peace were in a
satisfactory position. But the whole question turned upon
how the matter was settled. The evacuation of the pro-
vinces ought to be immediate, and be
hould to
know what compensation was to be aff
f the Turkish
ord for the blow
which had been levelled at the independence o
Empire, and what steps had been taken against the re-
currence of such a course. Care must be taken that no
traces of this occupation were left which would give
Russia a claim in after time.
Lord ELLENBOROUGH cordially approved of the
policy of Government towards France ; but, from the cha-
racter of the Emperor of the Russia, he did not believe
that he would lightly take so important a step as he had
done. Ho entreated Government and those who urged on
a war for the independence of Turkey to well consider what
the extent of that war would be. It would be a war in
Circassia, and Poland. If these negotiations terminated
favourably, he should think better of diplomacy than he
had hitherto done, but he could not regard the subject
without apprehension.
The Earl of ABERDEEN—My lords, I will not say that
in the present state of affairs it is at all unnatural that
noble lords should be desirous of having the most accurate
information on this subject ; and my noble friend has, I
think, fully satisfied, or ought to have fully satisfied, the
expectations of noble lords. My noble friend has given in
substance the fullest statement of the actual condition of
affairs, and in such a manner as to give satisfaction. My
noble friend who just sat down has given some very good
advice, and has expressed opinions, in some of which I
agree. My noble friend has referred to the opinion of the
Duke of Wellington when at the head of the Government,
and when I had the special direction of foreign affairs. I
agreed with him in opinion at that time, and ever since I
have always felt the same conviction, that a close intimacy
with France was the real policy of this country. (Hear
hear.) I felt that conviction under King Charles X. ; I
felt that conviction under King Louis Philippe ; and I feel
it now—(hear, hear)—and I have no doubt that any Go-
vernment of France, which is of a description so solid and
established as to be capable of maintaining its engagements
—be it republican, be it imperial, be it royal—is the Go-
vernment with which we ought to connect ourselves.
(Hear, hear.) That is the course we have pursued through-
out the whole of this discussion. It is true the noble lord
behind me, and others, have expressed their fervent con-
viction that, if we had at an earlier time taken vigorous
and decisive measures, we should have put a stop to ail
those difficulties. My lords, it is easy to prognosticate
what would be the case after an event has occurred ; but
it is impossible for me to say what might be the case if we
had followed a different course ; I can only say that we
shall be perfectly satisfied, if the course we have followed
should lead us to a happy conclusion. (Hear.) Ido not
doubt when the great powers of England and France are
united in any course they may please to take but that they
will be successful, but we have now the other great powers
of Europe united with England and France—(hear)—and
that is the state in which we stand at the present moment.
The four great powers of Europe are now acting in concert,
—they speak the same language—they make the same con-
ditions which, as my noble friend says, have already been
accepted by one of the powers with whom we are mediating.
I shall certainly not enter into the particulars of these
terms, but this at least is quite clear, that this country, that
France, that Austria, all of them, are equally concerned in
preserving substantially the integrity of Turkey ; and is
it likely that we would consent to propose any sacrifice on
the part of the Sultan which he could have any reason to
object to, or to hesitate in accepting. Your lordships are
aware that those are our motives ; not that we are bound
by any treaty, for I deny that this country is bound by
the stipulations of any treaty to take a part in hostilities
for the support of the Turkish empire. It is from a sense
of our national interests, and from a sense of what is due
to the general interests of Europe, and of our own honour,
that we take the part we have done ; for though we have
no treaty engagements undoubtedly there are honourable
engagements that must more or less weigh with every
country on this question. But your lordships may be
satisfied that, interested as the Great Powers of Europe
are in preserving the independence of the Turkish empire,
as long as it can be upheld by foreign countenance and
support, nothing will be proposed that can militate
against the honour and the essential interests of that
country. (Hear, hear.)
The Earl of MALMESBURY spoke a few words by
way of reply, and declared that the debate had not changed
his opinion that the Government would have acted more
prudently had they made known their policy in the same
way that France had done. It would have set at rest the
anxiety of the public upon the Turkish question, and have
satisfied the world that we were sincere in our desire to
assist the Sultan. (Cheers.) However, as their lordships
appeared to be averse to the production of the papers he
should not press for them, and, therefore, with the per-
mission of their lordships, he would withdraw his motion.
The motion was accordingly withdrawn.
PARSEE MERCHANTS.
Lord MONTEAGLE presented a petition from the
Parsee merchants, whose case was discussed a short time
since in the House of Commons, and at exceeding length
argued the case of the petitioners.
A discussion followed, in which Lord GRANVILLE, Lord
ELLENBOROUGH, and other noble lords took part.
PILOTAGE BILL.
Lord STANLEY (of Alderley) moved the second read-
ing of this bill.
After a conversation,
The Earl of HARROWBY objected to the measure
being extended to Liverpool, and said that not only the
pilots, but the underwriters, merchants, and shipowners of
that port had petitioned against it.
Lord STANLEY defended the bill as it stood.
The bill was then read a second time.
IRISH BISHOPRICS.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE moved for a return of
the revenue of all the sees of the Established Church in
Ireland, and of the houses and lands belonging to each.
The return was ordered.
THAMES EMBANKMENT BILL.
This bill passed through committee.
STANDING ORDERS.
Lord ST. LEONARDS moved that the following resolu-
teor should take effect as standing orders at the commence-
t of next session :-1. That where a tenant in tail,
under arze
is
promoter of a private estate bill, or a con-
sentingtereto by his guardian, and any person enti-
tled in remainder r
such estate tail whose consent is
required by the standing
hold his consent to orders of the house, shall with-
such bill, the consent of a person ap-
pointed as or in the
such minor by the na
nature of a guardian or protector of
Lord
Great Seal, by Writing ehancellor or Lord Keeper of the
under
dissentingh is hand,
pur-
pose of assenting to or'for the special
sufficient without the consent from such bill shall be
aforesaid. 2. Every
private
.of such remainder man as
taken by any
companyorassoebiill, by which powers are
security of land, for
the
purpose
to lend money on the
obtain securities for the same, Nvel?ifelilinprovement, and to
the borrower could
not grant without the authority of Parliament, shall be
referred to a select committee, and the
bill
shall be printed and circulated before ,as reported,
shall be taken thereon. anY further stage
The LORD CHANCELLOR thought that these
resolu-
tions laid down a correct principle, and he thought
would be an improvement upon the present syi they
was not aware of any abuses, but still believing them to
to
be an improvement he would support them.
Lord ST. LEONARDS said the subject was not to
su-
persede the authority of the Chairman of Committees, but
rather to support it.
The resolution was agreed to without a division.
MERCHANT SHIPPING BILL.
On the motion for going into committee on this bill,
Lord COLCHESTER addressed their lordships in consi-
deration of the effects of recent legislation on this subject.
f WALDEGRAVE,
After a few words from the Ear o
Lord HARDWICKE said he never contemplated that
'ncluded wi therovisions
the coasting tan rade should be
se
me observations onthin the number of
of this bill, d made so
d
British seamen in the American navy, which he state at
60,000 ; and on the deficiencies in the manning of our
rtions of it.
navy, and the inefficiency of some p
t
The Earl of ELLENBOROTIGH regretted bill of
th a ,
at so
such great importance should have been brought up b f
late a period of the session. He referred to the numb f
o
foreigners in the British navy, and compared the condition
of England and France in this respect. The bill proposed,
notwithstanding the tendency towards a decline in wages,
to introduce foreigners into that trade, to which alone
they could look to obtain seamen. He viewed the bill
with great apprehension as calculated to diminish the
loyalty of our seamen, who could not bear the presence of
fo
Lord
brs on British decs
ne
COLCHEST
el Litlße. EP.k moved the omission of the 31st

The amendment was negatived by a majority of 18 to 5.
The other clauses were agreed
to
with amendments, and
the bill passed through committee.
THE DRAINAGE OF LANDS ACT AMENDMENT
(IRELAND) BILL.
This bill passed through committee.
DUTY ON HORSES LET FOR HIRE BILL.
This bill passed through committee.
GENERAL BOARD OF HEALTH BILL.
The General Board of Health Bill was read a third time
and passed.
NE PUBLIC LIBRARIES (IRELAND AND SCOT-
B
This bill was read a third time and passed.
GOVERNMENT OF INDIA BILL.
ne Government of India Bill was read a third time and