The Sun.
London, England, 1853-03-08 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

BOUSE OF LORDS—(YESTERDAY.)
NATIONAL EDUCATION IN IRELAND.
The Earl of CLANCARTY rose to call the attention
of the house to the operation of the national system of
education in Ireland. The noble earl (who was very
indistinctly heard) said that the national system of edu-
cation had now been 21 years in operation in Ireland,
And when first established it was an experiment with
respect to which very great expectations were held out,
and it had certainly received no ordinary support both
from Government and through the liberality of Parlia-
zaent. The returns which he intended to move for, and
-which he rejoiced to find were not to be opposed, ought
to be laid upon their lordships' table, in order to enable
them to form an accurate opinion, from official evidence,
as to the actual working of the system, and its alleged
great success in the attainment of the object of its origi-
alai institution, viz., the education of the Irish people,
founded upon religion ; the union of Roman Catholic
and Protestant children in the same schools, and also
the union of Roman Catholic and Protestant clergy, as
the patrons and managers of the schools, in the same
Parishes ; and the general concurrence of the people of
Ireland in the carrying out of the system by the amount
of their local contributions. Now, he was sure that the
:returns would bear him out in saying that the system
had failed in all those particulars ; but should it be
Otherwise, there would at least be great advan-
tage in having the official information in support
of its alleged success produced. And here he must com-
plain, that the annual reports of the commissioners were
presented to Parliament at too late a period to be of any
use. The report for 1851 was only communicated to
their lordships on the 15th of February, 1853, a date
which must altogether defeat the object of its being pre-
sented to Parliament at all, namely, to enable Parlia-
Inent to judge of the efficiency of the system when it was
voting the public money from which that system was to
be supported. With respect to the working of the
system the opinions were various. It had been zealously
supported by every successive Government since it had
been instituted, and statesmen had had a prejudice in its
favour, not wishing to shake its prestige, and perhaps
unconsciously overlooking some of its defects. The com-
missioners, too, in their reports had certainly represented
the working of the system as very favourable, and the
visits of Lord Lieutenants to the model schools in
Dublin, and the accounts which vrere always given to the
World of these admirably-managed institutions, all
tended to prepossess the public mind in favour of the
system. A, gentleman who was recently staying on a
visit at Unair Castle, however, visited one of the rural
schools, and looked at some of the writing that was
execlited by the scholars. Bearing in mind that one of
th.a good results that was anticipated from these institu-
iions was the spread of loyalty and good feeling towards
•Xngland, what was the gentleman's surprise, when, upon
-opening the first copy-book, he found that it was headed
" Hurrah for Repeal !" Another was headed " St.
Patrick was a gentleman." (Laughter.) He (Lord Clan-
Carty) certainly believed that St. Patrick was a gentleman
----and a Protestant, too. But to return to the causes
which had excited a prejudice in favour of these schools.
One justifiable ground was the admirable elementary
Works that were used in them. But there were many
Who thought that the system had failed to effect that
intellectual and moral improvement of the people which
had been regarded as one of its legitimate results. The
commissioners themselves, however, took a different
view, and in their report for 1851 they declared that
they were convinced that the system had deep root in
the affections of the people, and that no other plan of
instruction for the people could have been devised which,
under the peculiar circumstances of Ireland, would have
—conferred such inestimable blessings upon the great ma-
jority of the population. The commissioners further
stated, that in 1851 the schools were 4,704 in number,
and the !pupils 520,401 ; showing an increase of 157
echools and of 9,162 pupils over 1850. Further on,
they stated that they had made grants to other schools,
auld they summed up by saying that there was reason
for believing that the total number of pupils benefited
ihY the system was 529,637. This was certainly a very
Striking picture of progress in education, but he took
leave to question the accuracy of these figures, and he
did so for this reason. In their second report, at the
outset of their labours, the commissioners calculated the
number of children between the ages of seven and thir-
teen for whom they would ultimately have to provide
*duration. The total number of children between those
ages in Ireland they estimated at about one-seventh of
the population, and they calculated that about one-half
of that number would require to be instructed in their
schools. Now, the census of Ireland just issued showed
that the population had diminished very considerably
Since that time. In 1851 it amounted to 6,500,000, and
the emigration that had gone on so rapidly since then
had further reduced it to 6,300,000. Now, out of that
total amount of population, one-half of the children be-
tween seven and thirteen years of age, would only give
:50,000 ; so that it would be seen that by taking credit
'or having 530,000 scholars in their schools in 1851, the
'commissioners had actually exceeded their own maxi-
mum by 80,000. But this was not all. The Church
tincation Society had 100,000 children in their schools ;
and adding 50,000 more for the other schools uncon-
teeted with the National Board—a very moderate com-
putation—this, added to the 530,000, gave a total of
6_80,00 children, leaving but 220,000 to include all the
children of that age belonging to the upper and middle
classes, all the children of the thirty-five union houses,
and all the poor children who did not go to school atall.
He thought, therefore, that there was some reason to
doubt the accuracy of these figures. Now, he found
that the total amount of local aid contributed to 178
schools out of the entire number of the national schools,
was only 1931., or at the rate of 4,593 to the entire
slumber of schools in operation, whereas the subscrip-
tions in aid of the Church Education Society amounted
to 40,7041., and he could not be far wrong if he were to
say that 60,0001. more were raised by local subscrip-
tions in aid of the Irish Church missions, the Irish So-
ciety, the Wesleyan and Presbyterian missions, and the
schools maintained at the expense of the Roman Catho-
lic clergy, independent of the National Board. The
comparison was, therefore, decidedly against the national
system, and in favour of such systems as enabled patrons
to give religious instruction to the children who attended
the schools. He should be most happy if he could
point out any results beneficial to the country from
the system which had been acted upon, but was un-
able to do so. A. system which pretended to be re-
ligious ought to manifest itself in an improvement of
the moral and religious character of the people, in
the production of those habits of industry and order and
economy which were the distinguishing characteristics of
civilised nations. He, however had witnessed no such
results. Before this system was called into existence the
inhabitants of the north of Ireland were as provident
and industrious as they were at the present moment.
The views which he entertained were strengthened by
the statistics of the census of 1841: Although in the
province of Munster the proportion of children attend-
ing the national schools was as 1 to 11, and in Ulster

as 1 to 15, yet the predominance of ignorance in
-Munster as compared with that in Ulster was as 46 to
86- He would take a later period, and compare two
towns with poor-law unions—the towns possessing great
sutural advantages, and the population of the unions
being nearly the same in extent. He found that in Lime-
rick there were 5,512 pupils in national schools, and in
13elfast the number was 4,774, the proportion being 1 to
20 in Limerick, and 1t027 in Belfast. Now, in the
Limerick union the number of persons receiving relief
was 17,551 against 6,671 in the Belfast union. The
Proportion receiving relief was 1 to 8 in Limerick, and
ItolB in Belfast. Taking Ireland generally crime had
Increased and not diminished ; for in 1841 the number
of committals was 20,796, whilst in 1851, the popula-
tion having diminished nearly 1,500,000, the number of
committals was 24,654. He trusted, after what he had
stated, that their lordships would not consider him un-
reasonable in entreating their prompt attention to this
subject. The noble earl concluded by moving for a copy-
01' the returns furnished by the Commissioners of Na-
tional Education in Ireland to his excellency the Earl of
-c,glinton, when lord-lieutenant, Of the number of
children attending each of the national schools in Ireland,
and of the religious denominations to which they be-
-lang," as referred to in the 14th page of the eighteenth
report of the Commissioners of National Education
la Ireland. List of the vested schools, stating-1,
parish in which situated ; 2, date of connexion
"4h board ; 3, name and religion of teacher ' • 4,
amount of salary from board ; 5, amount of local aid
en towards teacher's salary in the way of subscrip-
tions during the year referred to in 18th report ; 6,
amount of school fees paid during same period; 7, whether
there is a residence provided for the teacher ; 8, name
and religion of patron ; 9, number of children on the roll
(4 each such school ; distinguishing the number of the
'established Church, of Presbyterians, of Protestant Dis-
t:enters, and of Roman Catholics ; 10, whether the Scrip-
‘Ore lessons were habitually used during the hours of
united instruction for the same period. Similar returns
cr
especting the non-vested schools. Return from the
clerk of this house of the respective dates at which each
of the annual reports of the Commissioners of National
this
in Ireland have been laid upon the table of
"is house, and of the dates at which they have been
urespectively distributed to the members of this house.
'rho Earl of ABERDEEN (who spoke very inaudibly)
said he wished to make a few observations in reply to
the speech of the noble earl who had introduced the sub-
)!'et to their lordships. The noble earl had stated, first,
that this system of national education had entirely failed
that it was vicious in its conception, and had entirely
failed in its results. Now, he was quite ready to admit
that it had not succeeded so extensively as it was
Zit9eu. eted to do when proposed by the noble earl oppo-
Coe, But if its success had not equalled the expecta,-
then tt entertained, to what was the failure to be
4.4_qhuted ? (Hear, hear.) Was it not to be attributed
;42 the noble earl and his friends ? (Hear, hear.) He
:7!_me,ented to find that a large proportion of the clergy of
ii4-riaend had from the first opposed the operation of this
linro• (Hear, hear.) Wherever it had been supported
followed clergy it had been successful, and if they had but
!red the example of that most learned, zealous, and
ti`su_lghtened prelate who had so long been at the head of
b7_National Board, the success of the system would have
bee"tla !?ininensurate with its extent. (Hear.) But it had
the • "le misfortune of Ireland that the attempts made for
Improvement of that country had been almost always
relie'lhverte
d to the purposes of sectarian difference, whether
dirt or or political. (Hear.) It certainly was the
0„1,•?o: every public man to view with forbearance the
saw of those who were hostile to him ; but when he
cha_leln noble system so obstinately opposed, and the
for s, the best chance, and perhaps the only chance
wantonlytrmant improvement of Ireland rejected and
thrown away, he confessed that he had some