The Sun.
London, England, 1853-06-07 00:00:00

and that surplus after paying the expense of the Burmese
war. But were they going backwards ? What was the
result of the present war ? 'What was the sketch estimate
of 1852-3 ? The hon. member for Manchester was perfectly
correct in the amount he gave of the revenue. The sketch
estimate gave a total for the current year of 292,282,525
rupees, that was 29,228,2821. The charge amounted to
26,317,5261., showing a surplus of 2,910,726. (Cheers.)
But remember that India paid, and always had paid, a
heavy tribute to this country. But after allowing for that
tribute, the estimated surplus for the current year was
nearly half a million, including the estimate for the Bur-
mese war. He said a little while ago that if they prepared
figures in different cycles, unless there was something con-
secutive, that way of putting them would confound any-
body, and, above all, an assembly to whom they were ad-
dressed. The hon. member asked what was the case in
1835, again after five years, and again five years after that;
but he did not conclude, he admitted, with the extrava-
gant statement made by another hon. member when he
spoke of the bankruptcy of India. His idea of bankruptcy
must have been a whimsical one. When the hon. member
for Manchester spoke of the increase of the debt, what was
the use of it ? No use at all. If they had shown simul-
taneously with an increase of debt an increase of revenue
there would have been something intelligible about it.
The revenue had increased in proportion, notwithstanding
all the wars, and the proportion of debt to revenue was
greater than at any period the hon. member had dwelt
upon, as he thought, so triumphantly. The revenue is
now 29,000,0001. In 1834, the total debt, including the
bond debt, was 38,086,0001. Now, in round figures, it was
50,000,0001. There they had an increase in twenty years
of 15,344,0001. The increase in revenue was in an infinitely
greater proportion. In 1839, after some years of peace,
the debt was only 31,900,0001., and the increase from 1839
to the present time was 18,812,0001. He mentioned that
to show what India could do in time of peace and what
India suffered in time of war. But who was responsible
for the war in 1839—was it the Court of Directors ? (Mr.
Bright—No.) No, said the hon. member for Manchester ;
he cleared the Court of Directors. (Hear, hear, from Mr.
Bright.) He believed they disapproved it ; but if that
were so, if the Minister of the Crown were responsible for
that war and for all the wars, was it not a strange mode
of remedying the evil to take away the power from the
Court altogether, and to give it to that power which caused
the wars ? (Cheers.) The Affghan war was not an In-
dian war ; it arose for European purposes, and it ought
to have been defrayed out of European resources.
(Hear, hear, from Mr. Bright.) Well, then, restore
the 15 millions that it cost—(laughter)—restore that
15 millions, and then call on them as loudly as they
pleased to diminish taxes and to increase public works.
But oppressed with debt, not oppressed, because they
could not say a man was oppressed by debt who had
the means of paying, and what was a debt which did not
absorb two years' income. The Duke of Wellington was
gone, his voice was no longer heard in the walls of Parlia-
ment, no longer would he guide the councils of his sove-
reign and his country, but his wisdom would long survive,
and he would read to them what the Duke of Wellington
said when a question similar to that raised by the hon.
member for Manchester was discussed. The duke said,
" I will not presume to say how many millions of people
you govern. You have an annual revenue of twenty mil-
lions, and notwithstanding all the wars you have been en-
gaged in, its debt at this moment amounts onlyto forty mil-
lions, being no more than two years' revenue. Ido not
say that such a debt is desirable ; but at the same time I
do say that it is a delusion on the people of this country
to tell them it is a slur on the proceedings of a Govern-
ment which has carried on the affairs of the Government
with so much success." He had told them the cost of the
Burmese war. A great deal has been said about what
would be the expense of that war. At first it was said
the cost would be 150,0001. a month. The cost was
30,0001. When the further troops were sent, the estimated
cost was 50,0031. a month. He believed the extra cost
would not much exceed 100,0001. He held in his hand the
estimate for the Burmese war for 1152-3. The estimate
was a little above 600,0001., the whole expense of the Bur-
mese war. The hon. member made one complaint about
the debt. He said they borrowed money to pay their di-
vidends in England. Suppose they did ; surely he did not
complain if they had not money to pay their dividends,
that they should borrow it. They liked to be honest. But
the hon. gentleman was quite wrong, as the dividends
were the first charge on the Indian revenues; and if the
dividends were the first charge upon 20,000,000, how could
they say they borrowed money to pay the dividends ?
Mr. BRIGHT.—I said you borrowed as much as would
pay the dividend.
Sir J. W. HOGG.—They did not borrow money to pay
the dividend. The hon. member said it for effect ; but his
desire was to take away the effect and to state the thing
simply and in an unglossed manner. It had been said why
were the dividends a first charge, and why should they be
paid out of the territorial revenue ? He said it was fair,
because when the compromise was made it was estimated,
but the amount of commercial assets spent in government
expenses far exceeded any amount that would be caused
by the payments of dividends. On this point he would
read to them a considerable authority. When something
similar was said in the House of Lords, Lord Ellenborough
said the East India Company gave to India, to its territo-
rial revenue, in diminution of its charges, a great part of
the result of its commercial assets. He thought India had
no reason to complain of that. The hoii. and learned gen-
tleman had said his right hon. friend had glossed over the
question of land tenures. He (Sir J. Hogg) did not think
so. It was true his right hon. friend had not gone inao
all - the details of those tenures, and God forbid he
should. (Hear, hear, and a laugh.) But the
honourable and learned gentleman had made the most
extraordinary complaint, not of the Court of Directors or
of the local government of India, but of that which was the
whole system of Asia. The hon. gentleman said, " Why,
you derive your whole revenue from land." To be sure
they did ; and it was the custom not of India only, but
throughout the earth—(hear, hear)—and the hon. gentle-
man must recollect that one of the political economists lie
had himself quoted said that this system of drawing the
revenue from land was the best system of revenue in the
whole world, for under that people in effect paid no taxes.
the revenue being collected in the shape of rent. He had
'heard and read much of late about tenures in India, but he
had heard no single argument, nor received a single suggestion
which he did not find more powerfully put forward in the
minutes and reports of the government and public servants
at the very time that this tenure was formed. It had been
the fashion, he knew, to say that Lord Cornwallis settled
this question of tenure rashly, and that he sacrificed the
rights of the ryots., That was not true. Whatever might
be the opinion as to Lord Cornwallis's acts, they were not
taken without due consideration ; and certainly the rights
of the ryots had not been sacrificed, for no ryot could be
removed from his holding while he paid a fixed government
rent. But then it was said there was an annual revision,
and the consequence was that the ryot did not know in any
one year what,he would have to pay in the next. It was
true there was an annual revision'; but the object of that
was that the ryet should not be called -upon to pay for
land which, from any cause, was not cultivated, and that
allowance might be made in cases of drought and other
circumstances which occasioned him loss. It had been
asked by.the hon. and learned gentleman why not extend
the north-western system to Madras and Bombay? Let
the hon. and learned gentleman ask Sir G. Clerk, Mr.
Halliday, and others, who had spent the greater portion of
their lives in India. Had the hon. gentleman the expe-
rience of those authorities who were asked the question
before the committee he would not have asked the ques-
tion, but it was knowledge alone that made a man con-
scious of his ignorance. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. PHILLIMORE begged the hon. gentleman's pardon.
(Order, order.) He wished to explain. (Order, order.)
He had not asked that question.
Sir J. HOGG—If the hon. gentleman did not say so, ho
had misunderstood him, but he had taken down his words,
and certainly understood him to ask the question why the
north-west system was not extended to Madras and
Bombay.
Mr. PHILLIMGRE—What I did say was that it was a
proof that the old system was wrong, inasmuch as they
adopted a different one in the new provinces, .but I never
dreamt of saying anything so absurd as that the north-
western system should be extended to Bombay and
Madras. __ _

dynasties ; for ho did not think there was much weight in
" tu-quoque" arguments. But if he were to tell the house
the details of Mahomedan rule, he should perfectly appal
every hon. gentleman that heard him with the recital of
the miseries which had been endured by the people of
India. The Mahomedan rulers certainly had occasionally
indulged in public works, but they were only such as
would gratify their own vanity or minister to their own
luxury. If they made a road, it was only because there was
about to be some royal progress, or because it would lead to
some royal hunting ground ; when that progress had
ceased, and that hunt was over, then those works fell into
decay. (Cheers.) There were temples, and tombs, and
mausoleums and palaces constructed enough, but there were
no works of public utility. (Hear, hear.) If the house
asked him for his authority, he would refer them to the
book of Sir Henry Elliott, wherein it was shown that these
Mahomedan works of which they had heard so much were
perfectly fabulous. (Hear.) The next question to which
he (Sir J. W. Hogg) would advert was one upon which the
hon. member for Leominster had most dwelt, namely, the
administration of justice in India, and the employment of
natives in that capacity. Now the fact was that the na-
tives of India aecided 99 per cent. of all the original civil
suits, and reckoning even appeals, 96 per cent. (Cheers.)
And yet it was said that the Court of Directors had not
honestly carried out the act of 1834. (Hear, hear.) Then
again, with respect to the revenues, there were deputy-col-
lectors, and deputy-magistrates extensively employed at
high salaries • whereas, previous to 1834, there were scarcely
any natives holding situations of that kind. (Hear, hear.)
The fact was the act of 1834 had been carried out cautiously
and therefore successfully, because if they had prematurely
forced natives into situations for which they were unfitted,
all the benevolent intentions of the Legislature would have
been entirely frustrated. (Hear, hear.) Then, what was
it to which the hon. gentleman referred ? The hon. gen-
tleman meant the covenanted service. (Hear, hear.)
Every situation in India was open to natives, and as far
as they were fit for any office they had been and would
be advanced to it. (Oh, oh.) But the covenanted ser-
vants consisted of those young men who had been edu-
cated at Haileybury and sent out to India; and because no
natives had gone through that process, and had been intro-
duced into the covenanted service, that was made a ground
of complaint. But perhaps the house would see that there
might be grave considerations connected with this subject.
If they introduced natives into the civil covenanted service,
then the question would come, why should they not be in-
troduced
also into the covenanted military service A
And then the question would arise how far natives should
be intrusted with the command of our armies in India.?
(Loud cheers.) He (Sir J. W. Hogg) thought the house
and the country would consider that this was a question
which was best left in the hands of the Government.
(Hear.) The first statesmen that this country produced
were sent out to India, and it was far better when such
questions arose that they should be left to the Governor-
General, who was as anxious to do justice to India as any
gentleman that sat in that house. (Cheers.) Hon. gen-
tlemen had spoken much of British misrule, but they had
passed by the great social reforms which had been effected
under our sway. Thuggism abolished, dacoitship, suttee,
infanticide, slavery—all abolished. He wished he had time
to refer to the labours of men far away from their homes, and
in unhealty climates, to establish civilisation on the lanes of
barbarism and superstition. The hon. member for Leomin-
ster shook his head, and, therefore, he (Sir J. W. Hogg)
would state some of the names and places ; and he hoped
that,• after then, the hon. member would rise after he (Sir
J. W. Hogg) had sat down, and would admit that his im-
pression had been erroneous. The first case to which he
would refer was Meer walla, and the papers of Colonel
Dickson. That was an unhealthy, mountainous jungle,
inhabited by fierce and bloodthirsty people, whom the
native rulers in their day had attempted to hunt down like
wild beasts, but without success. They were a race whose
hands were against every man, and every man's hand
against them ; and yet they had been brought into a state
of civilisation by the exertions of Colonel Dickson. (Hear,
hear.) A similar result had been brought about in a dis-
trict in Khandeish, inhabited by the Nails, A third in-
stance was the district of Goodzoor inhabited by the
Khools, who had been discovered by accident by Lieut.-
Colonel Macpherson—a tribe that indulged in human
sacrifices and worshipped their divinities with blood. The
labours of Lieut. Macpherson and Col. Campbell were
crowned with success ; these gallant Officere were able to
reside among those tribes, and they induced them to give
up their human sacrifices. (Hear, hear.) These were
men who perhaps were never heard of in this country ;
while men who distinguished themselves in storming the
fort, in the foremost of the battle, were heard of; their
deeds reached this land. But here were men labouring in
deadly jungles in the cause of humanity—(cheers)—with
no reward but the consciousness that they were discharg-
ing their duty to their God and to their country. (Cheers.)
He would now ask the attention of the house to the state
of education in India. Much had been done ;but he
freely admitted that much remained to be done. He did
not venture to say that all had been done that could or
ought to be done. No man or body of men united for
any purpose would assert that. Since 1833, a vast deal
had been done in the cause of education in India. There
were in Bengal—English and mixed schools, 37 ; natives,
104 ; in the north-western provinces, 7 English and
mixed schools ' • in Madras, 1 English and mixed ; in
Bombay, 14 English and mixed, and 233 native
schools. The number of scholars was 26,000, and the sum
annually expended 66,00 W. He admitted that a great deal
more ought to be expended, and no doubt would be in time.
But let the house consider how slow physical and moral
improvement had been in this country, where there were
no obstacles comparatively ; he might instance the im-
provement in gaols and the administration of justice.
What was the sum of money expended on education a few
years two, even in this unhappy country.? In 1833 it was
10,000/7 ' • last year it was 266,000 i. In like manner the in-
crease in India had been gradual, where there were different
races, creeds, and languages. Here we had difficulties,
where we spoke the same language, and worshipped the
same God ; how immeasurably greater' were the difficulties
of India ? (Hear, hear.) But they had been partially sur-
mounted ; he trusted that ultimately they would be entirely
so. He had no vague fears as to the consequences. He
did not entertain the apprehensions which had been
somewhere expressed. (Hear, hear.) Whatever might be
the result of education, it was our great mission to educate
and improve the people, irrespective of results, and he
agreed with Mr. Bright that it would be the most glorious
monument to, our memory if ever we lost that country, that
we had advanced the people in education and knowledge,
and had rendered them fit for self-government. (Cheers.)
The best evidence he could give to the house and the coun-
try of what the Court of Directors had done to carry out
the act of 1834, was to read the instructions which they
sent out to the local government when that act passed.
They called attention to clause 87 of the act, and directed
that every possible facility should be given to the natives
for fitting them to aspire to office. These instructions
were honest and distinct, and they were honestly carried
into execution by the Government of India. The last
subject to which he would allude was the ecclesiastical
establishments, and ho would mention generally their
increase. In 1834 there were 64 churches ; in 1852 there
were 115, In 1834 the Church Establishment cost
81,9544, • the Scotch Kirk, 6,2531. • the Roman Catholics,
I,6ool.—"(hear, hear)—total, 89,906/. In 1852, the Church
Establishment had increased to 107,7001. ; the Scotch Kirk
to 6,5001. ; and the Roman Catholics to 5,4001. In 1830
there were 116 missionary stations ; in 1850, 403. The ad-
vance in the Roman Catholic churches was the most
marked. In every station, where there was a European re-
giment, there was a payment to a Roman Catholic priest.
The bishop was not paid as a bishop ; hut he received 250
rupees a month for attending to the registry of baptisms
and marriages, and so on, amongst the Roman Catholics.
Within the last few hours he had seen a book published in
India called the Missionary Intelligencer, which stated that,
looking at the country politically, there was a remarkable
opening for ministers of the gospel ; there was nothing to
deter any prudent faithful man from travelling about in
all parts, or settling in any place, and preaching the
gospel. It stated that the government of the country
had done much to establish this state of things ; the go-
verning board were well known for their high principles,
and their spirit and example pervaded all the officers
of the government, who seemed to have been selected
for their talents, habits of business, and uprightness of principle. The rapidity of improvement in thopcounti was
really most wonderful; a few years had done the Two;le of ages in the Punjaub • and the people were released from
all petty oppression. ken of talent and rank were all in-
tent upon their work, and all alive and progressing onward,
sparing no labour of either body or mind. They seemed to
have their eyes open to everything going on in the old
country, making roads, building bridges, and planting trees.
(Hear, hear.) This extract coming from such authority
was valuable as to the state of moral religious feeling in
the country, bearing incidental testimony to the energy and
capacity of the servants or the company, more particularly

Sir J. HOGG contended there was a system of revision
in connexion with this tenure. By the law of India every
Hindoo family was a joint family, and the tenure was joint,
and when the man died each member had a right to his
undivided share, so that the tendency of the tenure
was always to subdivision, but this was a system
which, while it was well adapted to a rude state of
society, was not suited to a more advanced stage of civili
sation. The hon. member for Manchester referred to
cotton. Upon that subject he would touch very briefly,
for there had been a committee over which the hon. mem-
ber presided, of which he (Sir J. Hogg) was a member, and
in the report of which he was happy to say he, together
with the hon. member for Manchester, fully concurred.
That report described the exertions which the India Com-
pany had made to advance the cultivation of cotton in.
India, sometimes with more and at others with less suc-
cess ; but, after all, the question of the cultivation of cotton
in India was one of market and of price. (Hear, hear.)
The Indians cultivated cotton for their own use and for ex-
portation to China, but they did not ship it to this country,
because it was well known that the market here depended
upon the goodness or badness of the crop of the United
States. If the United States crop was bad there was a
market here for Indian cotton but if the United States
crop was good there was not. If it really desired to en-
courage the growth of cotton in India, why did they not
make the market certain, as was done in the case of indigo,
the grower of which knew beforehand, that if he laid out
a certain quantity of land in the growth of indigo, he was
sure to be paid for his labour, and the charge of cultiva-
tion. Sir T. Munroe, at the bar of that house, had said
that the cultivation of grain in India was more profitable
that that of cotton. Then the questions of income and
revenue were inseparably connected with the question of
the cultivation of cotton, but if in place of debating and
discussing the subject in that house, Manchester intelli-
gence and Manchester capital once found its way to the cotton
growing districts in the neighbourhood of Bombay and
other parts of India, and insured a fair price to the culti-
vator, cotton would be cultivated in precisely the same
way that indigo was. At the same time it must not be
lost sight of, that until they had a railway to Bombay, the
cost of bringing down the cotton to the place of shipment
would operate to a considerable extent against its success-
ful cultivation. The hon. member for Manchester also said
that as they had heard nothing of the condition of the ryots
in Bengal, they were doubtless worse off than they were in
Bombay, and he founded his statement on the reports of
Indian newspapers. He would refer the hon. gentleman
to an authority of the same description, the Calcutta Re-
view, which, in a recent article, saidfthat what struck the
eye on passing through Bengal was the exuberant fruitful-
ness of the soil, the total absence of anything like want or
famine, and the comfort and contentment of the villagers.
(Hear.) Then the hon. gentleman dwelt on the salt tax.
That was an onerous tax no doubt, but it was the only tax
the people paid. But here too the hon. gentleman quoted
the authority of an Indian newspaper, showing that the
people were in effect deprived by this tax of an impor-
tant necessary of life, and that notwithstanding the
system introduced the consumption of salt had diminished.
Quoting from the Friend of India, the hon. gentleman
stated that—" In the year 1819-50, the consumption was
205,517 tons; in 1850-51, 186,410 tons; and in 1851.52,
146,069 tons. Thus, in the short period of three years,
there had been a decrease in the consumption amounting to
59,444 tons, which would involve a loss to the revenue of
416,1361. Salt was one of those articles that people would
use as much of as they could afford, and the diminution in
the consumption appeared to him to be a deoided proof of
the declining condition of the population, and that must
affect adversely the revenue of the Indian government."
That statement startled him (Sir J. Hogg) when he heard
it, for if it were true, the deduction of the honourablegentleman was irresistible. Salt was undoubtedly a neces-
sary of life to those who lived almost exclusively on vege-
table diet. The hon. gentleman said the duty had in-
creased, the revenue had diminished, and the consumption
had fallen off. But how was it possible for the consump-
tion to have fallen off while the revenue had increased with
t. reduced duty ? (Hear, hear.) But the hon. gentleman
might have informed himself better on the subject had he
taken the trouble for the same nail, and he presumed in

the same envelope, that brought the'paper of the 14th of in the Punjaub. He regretted that he had detained the
April, from which he quoted, brought the number of the house for such a length of time ; but the subject was one of
same paper of the 21st ; and there, under an article simi- great importance, and he felt that he was bound to speak
larly headed—the consumption of salt—the editor wrote, at some length, as the body with which he was associated
"It has been pointed out to us that our returns of last had been assailed, not only been charged with mismanage.
week on the consumption of salt contain a mistake so ment and errors of judgment, but even had their motives
serious as to vitiate all the conclusions we draw from them. and intentions impugned. (Hear, hear.) He did not
(Hear, and laughter.) Yet such were the foundations on complain of the arraignment of the East India Com-
which the hon. member for Manchester founded his speech. pany ; for the acts of all public men were open tq public
The next point raised by the hon. gentleman he would not canvass, and if they deserved it, to public condemnation.
dwell upon, as they would have a discussion embracing the But he complained, as a member of that body, that impu-
revenue raised from opium—the manner in which it was tations had been cast on the honour and purity of the in-
raised—the cultivation of the poppy—and the morality of tentions of the Court of Directors. (Hear.) It was not
the opium trade. They had already had a report on that long since an hon. friend of his own had asked what sym-
subject, and they gathered from that document the fact pathy could exist between the East India Company and the
that a very large revenue was drawn from the cultivation people of India. He (Sir J. W. Hogg) would ask him if
and export of opium, and their belief that the same amount there might not be the sympathy which arose from a con-
could not be drawn from a less objectionable source. It scientious discharge of duty, and why it should be sup-
was reported that the cultivation was about to be legalised posed that the Court of Directors were indisposed to &s-
-in China ; and should that report turn out to be true, it charge their duty. Let them be accused of incapacity and
must affect the finances of India considerably. This ought incompetency, but let it not be said that there was any
to be considered before they talked of transferring India want of disposition to discharge their duty towards the
wholly over to the Crown, because when that was done people of India. He would speak for himself. He pro-
they would have to take upon themselves all the debts, the ceeded to that country neither in the service of the crown
guarantees, and other liabilities for which the India Com- nor of the company, dependent solely upon his own exer-
pany are now liable. He apprehended that, should that tions for his livelihood and advancement in life. It pleased
event take place, and the revenue from the export of opium God to prosper those exertions, and he was indebted to
cease, there would be but little chance of proceeding very India for the independence which enabled him to sit in
rapidly with public works and improvements. He did not the great council of this country. (Cheers.) He was,
know if the hon. member for Manchester saw the papers therefore, devoted to that country by every tie of
laid on the table at the period of the Chinese war. If he gratitude and affection ; and he could tell his hon. friend
had he would have found the question of political economy that feelings like these were as likely to produce beneficial
touched upon—amongst others by Commissioner Lin, who results to the people of India as any abstract doctrines of
pointed out the impropriety of the Chinese importing opium philanthrophy and benevolence. (Hear.) He should say
while so many districts of China were suited to its cultiva- for himself, and for those with whom he had the honour
tion. Much had been said with respect to public works, and to be associated, that as far as they were personally con-
he would, therefore, state briefly the result of what had been corned, they cared little what might be the determination
done. There was the great public trunk road from Cal- of Parliament upon that question ; but their earnest wish
cutta to Peshawur, 1,423 miles in length, and costing and prayer was, that the Supreme Disposer of Events
1,0001. a mile. There was a trunk road to Agra, and there might so direct the councils of the legislature that they
was the road from Madras to Bombay, which cost half a might select that form of government°, and those instru-
million. In all there were 3,159 miles, the estimated cost ments to execute it, which would be best calculated to
of which was 2,166,0001., and the estimated repairs 90,0001. advance the prosperity and happiness of the people of
A great deal of all this ad already been made, and the rest India, and the honour and glory of this country. (Loud
was in progress.- Of canals there was the East and West cheers.)
Jumna, 580 miles, and the Ganges, 810 miles, which had Mr. BLACKETT moved the adjournment of the debate.
cost upwards of a million and a half, of which 780,0001. The motion was agreed to without any discussion.
had already been expended. There was likewise another The Consolidated Fund (4,000,0001.) Bill was read a
canal 480 miles long, which cost half a million. In Madras third time and passed.
there were works of irrigation on the only rivers to which
SAVINGS BANKS.
they could be applied, the Godavero, the Govery, and the
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved that
Keishna. In 1850 the works on the two former rivers were
the house should resolve itself into a committee, in order
nearly completed, and for those upon the third the expen-
diture of 150,000/. had been sanctioned. Now, when these that they might pass two preliminary resolutions on the
works were mentioned by his right hon. friend the Presi-
subject of the savings banks' system, upon which he would
dent of the Board of Control, the hon. member for Man-
afterwards introduce two bills to Parliament.
chester expressed no satisfaction, nor would he give the Mr. VANCE wished to know whether the right hon.
company the least credit for what they had done. He gentleman meant to introduce into either of his bills any
went back to his favourite date of 1792, and stated that provision under which persons who had lost their NOD aey
some of these works had been recommended by a report in the Cuffee-street Savings Bank were to receive compan-
issued in that year. sation ?
An HoN. MEMBER (in a stentorian voice)—Hear, hear. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied in
(Loud laughter.) the negative.
Sir J. W. HOGG dared say that the hon. gentleman The resolutions were then agreed to, and the house re-
who had just been aroused from his slumbers—(great sumed.
laughter)—would join the hon. member for Manchester in The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved for
holding the Government of 1853 responsible for the orris- leave to bring in a bill to amend the laws relating to sav-
sions of 1792. [The hon. member—hear, hear.] (Great ings banks, and also a bill to amend the laws relating to
laughter.) Certainly, the hon. member could not be ac-
the purchase of Government annuities through the medium
cused of want of candour. (Laughter.) It would not of savings banks.
much strengthen his (Sir J. W. Hogg's) statement to refer Mr. GROG AN expressed a hope that the right hon.
to what had been done in the times of the Mahomedau gentleman would be prepared to give a favourable consi-

aeration to the claim; of those persons who had lost the
money they had deposited in certain savings hanks iu
Ireland.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
thought it desirable that no false expectations should be
raised upon that point ; and he would, therefore, state at
once that he did not propose in any way to repair retro-
spectively the deficiencies of the past savings banks system.
The utmost he could hope to do would be to amend it, and
to provide something like a security against the recurrence
of its abuses for the future.
Leave was then given to bring in the bills.
In reply to a question from Sir J. TROLLOPS,
Lord J. RUSSELL said that he proposed to go on with
the debate on the India Bill day after day until it should
be brought to a close ; and that after the termination of
that debate he would take the first order• of the day for the
second reading of the Succession Duty Bill.
The remaining business on the paper was disposed of,
and the house adjourned at one o'clock.

CRICKET.

A. TO K v. L TO Z.

This match was opened at Lord's yesterday, and is one
of the most interesting of the Marylebone Club matches.
The weather during the latter part of the day was far
from favourable. At the close of the play the score
stood thus :