The Sun.
London, England, 1854-03-22 00:00:00

T E SIT uriN

August; 1547. These clauses had been recognised by
the highest lawyers of the day, and he trusted the house
would not refuse to grant an immediate inquiry into the
subject.
Mr. FITZROY said he had requested the hon. mem-
ber to postpone his motion in consequence of the absence
of his noble friend (Lord Palmerston) from indisposi-
tion. As the hon. member had not done so, he mist
ask the house to support him in moving for the adjourn-
ment of the debate.
Mr. HUME said it was now nearly eighteen
years ago since he first endeavoured to bring the sub-
ject before the house, and though he had been promised
an inquiry by successive Governments no had
o cca-
ever
taken place. He should, however, on the present
sion advise his hon. friend to postpone his question
at present. (Hear, hear.)
After a few observations from Mr. Labouchere, Col.
North, and Col. Dunne,
Mr. GRENFELL said be would be most happy to
accede to the adjournment, but he hoped that Govern-
ment would consent to its coming on on an early day.
;Elite debate was then adjourned to Friday next.
CARLISLE CANONRIES.
Arr. ''`EIIGITSON moved for leave to bring in a bill
to app
Ctheulro
a
gate the income of such one of the canonries
of the
tal Church of Carlisle as shall next fall
uaentation of certain ecclesiastical in-
vacant, to the auk
cumbencies in that c."•
secoedtd the motion.
Mr. T. CHAMBER2
it was not his intention to
Mr. CARDWELL said .
kill. He had only to say,
oppose the introduction of the ..
first, this was a local bill for puttl.'N
s Carlisle on a diffe-
rent footing from other cathedral citie... therefore if the
house were to sanction this bill it w' ou:id be putting
Carlisle on a peculiar footing, and as the' Ca pi
Commission were about to present their report .te the
house he hoped the house would at present susp:nd
their judgment on the question for the present.
Leave was then given to bring in the bill.

BANKRUPTCY (IRELAND).
Mr. CAIRNS moved for leave to bring in a bill to
amend and consolidate the law of bankruptcy in Ireland.
The motion having been seconded,
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL for IRELAND said
there could be no objection to the introduction of such a
bill, and he should be most happy to give every facility
in his power to it.
Leave was then given to bring in the bill.

nation to support their Sovereign and her Ministers in
the demands which they might make. But I must re-
mind the house that within—l cannot say a few days, for
it is almost still a few hours, other doeuments connected
with those important transactions have also been placed
upon our tablii ;- and, to say the least of them, they add
much important as well as increased information to that
which we already possessed as to the reasons which have
placed the country in the perilous position in which it now
finds itself. It was not in our power, however, to con-
sider those documents when we listened first to the finan-
cial plans of the Minister. The financial plans of the
Minister, when, a fortnight ago or were, eliee7 were pro-
posed for our consideration and acceptance, were fendded
upon a necessity which, se co- as the House of Commons
was concerned, was only explacabie h the papers which
were placed upon the table on the first diy of tiro session.
Eiet the important supple:nee-4 (o these papers has ap-
aaergel eleece that statement— in fact, yitkin only the last
48 hours—A.44 Boone can read that impakaiit eilippieluent
without feelieg *94, ,ite perusal must give rise to new con-
biderations, csegita ese* erive been open to us when
we listened to the rezzona eft fce atirei_eieFf[ier cg.trs or-
ainary isepposition for increased tea-sake-a v tlaas
im-
portant siaipiesagent has given a very near -stapect to the
circumstance isenacsa snpposed were entirely placed
before us, and that 019 quasi. :sf Parliament must neces-
sarily be given upon that 491449 F t?-aeeTectedly
say teaS, Sir,
brought before our notate,
because I wish to guard myself tbe course of which I
am taking to night from any approvA of the isynpottion
which is brought forw4a by her Majesty's Ministers. It is
impossible that we can bring euraeives to approve a propo-
sition for greatly inercceing the direct taxation of the coan-
try, unless we bays a clear case of necessity proved to us ;
I say that we have not a clear necessity proved to us at pre-
sent, when we have two sets of papers before us which con-
vey to our minds different and distinct impressions. Nor can I
forget, sir, that it was not to the liberality, not to the generous
confidence of the Government—that we are indebted for
that additional and more important portion of this infor-
n:ation. (Hear, bear.) It is, I will not say to an accident
circumstances of a very rare, if not an unprecedented
bites
,:lat the House of Commons is indebted for being
n
ac the real causes of the war in which we aqiuurabin,
teLl
wfth
were invited :,'") embark some weeks ago, upon a very dif-
m that which probably will ultimately
ferent statement
on which we were asked greatly
be substantiated, and i;z7
country. I am sure that
to increase the burdens of tills
must feel that this
gentlemen on both sides of the hobo.t receive upon
subject requires discussion, which it aunt:
the present opportunity ; that they must feel thai Pe
fore
we ultimately sanction this increase of our taxation We '
must require from the Ministry a more clear account of
the causes which have brought about the present state of
affairs, and that Parliament, much more formally, much
more decidedly, and, I will even say, more solemnly must
sanction that policy and that increased taxation than it
has heretofore done. (Hear, hear.) So far, therefore, as
the main project is concerned, I shall treat all these stages
of the proceeding as merely preliminary and formal. I
guard myself from in any way or in any degree approving
the proposal which the Chancellor of the Exchequer has
brought forward. 4 will not admit that there is any ne-
cessity for increased taxaaen upon the present occasion,
and for this simple reason—that I myself am utterly at a
loss to know whether we are going to war---(" Oh, oh !")
—and, if we are going to aver, what are we going to war
for? (Hear, hear.) Ido not want to invite any discus-
sion upon the subject. All I want is, that the Chancellor
of the Exchequer, or any other Minister, shall not say,
upon a subsequent occasion, such as the second reading of
the bill upon the income-tax, that we are precluded from
objecting to the policy which this bill wishes to bring
into action. I rose to-night because there were one or
two points connected with the financial policy of the right
hon. gentleman respecting which, on a former occasion,
there had been some discrepancy of opinion and
statement between him and myself in this house. Perhaps
the house will recollect that upon the evening that he made
his financial statement, and after it was made, there was
some conversational discussion in the committee between
the right hon. gentleman and myself upon matters of fact,
upon which there was a great difference of statement be-
tween us. But they were subjects which could not be
settled without reference to authentic documents not then
at hand. The right hon. gentleman upon a subsequent oc-
casion in a Committee of Supply, upon the Wednesday fol-
lowing, I think, took the opportunity of making a fresh
statement upon one of the points of controversy; but, as
the right hon. gentleman rose very shortly before the house,
as it was Wednesday morning, was necessarily obliged to
adjourn, as it was impossible for me to reply to the right
hon. gentleman upon that occasion without entirely stop-
ping the course of public business, I expressed to the right
hon. gentleman that I dissented from his statement, but
that I would not, of course, at that moment intrude myself
upon the committee. It was then within a few minutes
of 6 o'clock, and it was distinctly understood between us
that upon a subsequent occasion I should notice the state-
ment which he then made. Now, when the right hon.
gentleman made his financial statement, upon which I at
the time offered no observations, so far as his main propo-
sition of increasing the taxation of the country was con-
cerned, reserving to myself the right of so doing upon a fit
opportunity—which unfortanately has not yet happened—
I did make some observations upon what I thought was a
very important feature of our financial condition. I thought
it my duty to call the attention of the Committee of Ways
and Means to a subject which attracted much of the pub-
lic attention, and occupied that evening a great portion of
the time of the house—namely, the state of the pub-
lic balances in the Exchequer. (Hear, hear.) I felt it
my duty to remind the committee upon that occasion,
that, when the Government of Lord Derby quitted
office at the beginning of January, 1853, they left a balance
in the Exchequer of nearly 9,000,0001., and that, at the
commencement of the present year of 1854, the balance
of nearly 9,000,0001. was reduced to the sum of about
4,400,0001. I pointed out then to the committee the great
inconvenience and possible injury to the public service of
such a state of balances in the public Exchequer. I said
that, so far as I could form an opinion at the time when I
was speaking, which must have been somewhat about the
beginning of this month, the balances in the Exchequer
were not more than 1,500,0001 e and that it was possible
that, by the end of the financial year which is now impend-
ing (the sth of April) the balances might be increased to
3,000,0001., which I thought, myself, a liberal estimate. I
have heard to-night from the high authority of a gentle-
man who is a political supporter of the Chancellor of the
Exchequer, and who recently filled, and filled with great
efficiency, the high post of Governor of the Bank, that in
his opinion I rather understated my case. I said then "if
upon the sth of April you have 3,000,0001. balance in your
Exchequer, and upon-that day or about it you have to pay
between 6,000,0001, and 7,000,0001. interest upon the
national debt, have to meet upwards of 2,000,0001.
more of your South Sea payments, and have also to supply
the usual expenditure of the country, it appears to me that
you are in a position of extreme difficulty—that even in
ordinary times it would be a perilous and imprudent one,
but that in times like the present, times of war and times
of great financial difficulty consequent upon war, your
position is not only wanting in prudence, but may even
be perilous." (Hear, hear.) I think that every gentleman
must feel, whatever may be his views upon the subject,
that it is a subject well deserving the attention of the
House of Commons. I think that every gentleman must
feel that a groat change in the management of our pub-
lic policy is a financial feature which demands attention,
and requires considerable reflection. (Hear, hear.) Not
with any intention to dwell upon the financial schemes of
the right hon. gentleman—which, indeed, upon that occa-
sion I dwelt upon much more lightly and with much less
detail than I might have done—but merely to explain the
reasons why that great metamorphosis had occurred, why
that burdened Treasury had suddenly been placed in the
position of being sustained by actual loans from the Bank,
as is proved by the returns upon our table, I touched upon
the causes of that great change—upon the causes which
had converted a balance, in January, 1853, of nearly
9,000,0001., into a balance, in January, 1854, of 4,400,0001.
I said that the cause was the dealing—as I thought, the
injudicious dealing—of the right hon. gentleman with the
interest of the unfunded and of the funded debt. (Hear,
hear.) I said that I could have traced to operations of his,
which I thought unauthorised, and which certainly have
been unsuccessful, the present state of the balances in our
Exchequer ' - and that, therefore, to those operations ulti-
mately must be attributed the inconvenience and injury
which might possibly accrue from that state of affairs.
Now, sir, I said upon that occasion, dealing first of all
with the reduction of the duty upon the unfunded debt or
Exchequer-bills, that the right hon. gentleman, when in
February, 1853, he resolved to reduce the interest upon
the unfunded debt, took a course which was quite unau-
thorised—that there many indications at that time which
should have told the right hon. gentleman that he was
embarking in a very dangerous enterprise ; and that I was
sure that in resolving to pursue it he was, in fact, acting
against the advice of the best authorities upon subjects of
this description. (Hear, hear.) I might have gone into
much detail to prove that position; but, wishing to avoid
it, and not being supplied at that time with the informa-
tion in an official or authentic form, which was necessary to
substantiate that statement, which I thought would be un-
questioned, I said from memory that the price of the pub-
lic funds at the time might have been an indication to the
right hon. gentleman that a change was occurring in the
value of money. I said at the beginning of February—on
the Bth, I think— that there had been a_ continuous—not
to say a considerable—fall in the price of the funds in the
interval which had occurred from the retirement of Lord
Derby from the Government, and from the moment which
the right hon. gentleman had chosen to reduce the interest
upon Exchequer-bills, which had already been once re-
duced by his predecessor. (Hear.) I said that even six
weeks did not elapse between the time when we loft office,
and until the right hon. gentleman advertised the reduc-
tion of the interest upon Exchequer-bills, before there had
been that continual depreciation in the value of the Three
per Cent. Consuls, which alone ought to have made a pru-
dent man hesitate before he contemplated a reduction of
the interest upon the unfunded debt. (Hear, hear.) But
at the same time I begged the house to remark that I did
not pledge myself accurately to the truth of the details of
the numbers, but that the fall might be nearly described
by numbers such as these :—That the Three per Cents. in
December, when we left office, were 101 k, and that the
Three per Cent. Consols at the time the right hon. gentle-
man reduced the interest on the unfunded debt—namely,
on the Bth of February—were about 991. That was the
statement that I made, and which I dare say is fresh in
the memory of hon. gentlemen who now listen to me.
(Cheers from the Opposition.) Well, and what was the
answer of the Chancellor of the Exchequer? The right
hon. gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer seemed
quite offended that I had presumed to speak of the state of
the balances in the Exchequer. (Cheers.) He treated it
quite as if I had made a personal attack upon him, but I am
not aware that either in my matter or my manner there
was anything to give rise to that suspicion. It seemed,
however, to the right hon. gentleman that my noticing the
state of the balances was a personal offence to him. I said
there had been a continuous, not to say continual, fall in
the public funds from the time that Lord Derby's Govern-
ment left office until the time that the right hon. gentle-
man reduced the interest on the Exchequer-bills, and I
said that this fall was a fall of 14 per cent. in the Three per
Cents. between December and February. Why, the Clian-
cellor of the Exchequer was not contented with denying
that fall in the Three per Cents.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER here made
an observation which was inaudible.
Mr. DISRAELL—I will toll you what the right hon.
gentleman said. He said, " There is a fall of 14 per cent.
in Consols, but I can explain it ; it is susceptible of easy
explanation. Is the right hon. gentleman ignorant that a
particular process is going on in the 3 per Cents, between
December and February—that a person holding 1001. stock
receives at that period 1/.los. interest, which is exactly the
t 4 per cent. which describes the continual fall in the funds."
There is not a gentleman who heard the Chancellor of the
Exchequer who must not recollect that statement—(cheers)
—there is not a gentleman who can forget that happy re-
tort, that triumphant repartee, or the enthusiastic cheers
which the right hon. gentleman received from the friends
around him. (A laugh.) Why, sir, I should have shrunk
into the ground unless I had happened to know that I
was exactly right. (A laugh.) I have here the au-