The Sun.
London, England, 1838-03-28 00:00:00

NEGRO SLAVERY.

Mr. MILES presented a petition from the congregation of
Wesleyan Methodists of Pontefract, praying for the immediate
and total abolition of Negro apprenticeship.
Mr. SANFORD presented petitions from Chard to the
same effect. The Hon. Member also presented similar peti-
tions from different places in the County of Somerset.
Sir G. STRICKLAND presented 30 petitions from diffe-
rent parts of the country against Negro slavery. The prin-
cipal of those petitions emanated from a large meeting held
at Exeter Hall. That petition was signed by the Chairman,
Lord Brougham, on behalf of the meeting.
Dr. LUSHINGTON presented a petition from Thomas
Clarkson to the same effect.
Mr. PEASE presented a petition from Carlisle to the same
effect.
Mr. HAWKINS presented numerous petitions to the same
effect, but we could not catch the names of the places.
Similar petitions were presented by Mr. THORNLEY and
by Major AGLIONBY.
Sir J. DUKE presented a similar petition from Boston.
An HON. MEMBER, whose name we could not learn, pre-
sented similar petitions from Huntingdon and other places.
Similar petitions were presented from places in Yorkshire
and in Norfolk, by Mr. Baines and another Hon. Member.
IRISH POOR RELIEF BILL.

Sir R. B ATESON presented two petitions from places
in the County of Londonderry, against the Irish Poor-law.
Also a petition from a parish in Londonderry, against the
system of national education in Ireland. Also petitions from
Belfast, Lisburne, and Londonderry, praying for a renewal
of_ the Linen Act, which will expire at the end of the present
Session.

Mr. HODGES presented a petition from a Board of
Guardians in the county of Kent stating that they had taken
great pains to ascertai❑ the general working of the New
Poor-law Act, and were highly in favour of its principle.
Also one praying for the immediate abolition of Negro
slavery.
Mr. 13. BARING presented a petition from the Arch-
deacon and Clergy of Stafford against the suppression of the
Bishopric of Sodor and Man.
Mr. Sergeant L E FRO Y presented a petition against the
system of national education.
TITHE AND CORPORATION BILLS—IRELAND.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL wished to ask the Right Ho-
nourable Baronet opposite, whether it was his intention,
or the intention of the Noble Lord the Member for North
Lancashire, to move an instruction to the Municipal Corpo-
ration Bill Committee to provide that the Municipal Corpora-
tions of Ireland should be abolished.

Sir ROBERT PEEL —Sir, as I have been for some years
past rather in the habit of administering than answering ques-
tions, the Noble Lord will not be surprised that I am desirous, for
a few moments, of assuming that position which is somewhat
more familiar to me—that of putting a question to the Noble
Lord. I don't do this merely for the purpose of taking
a lesson from the more practical experience of the Noble Lord
in answering questions—( Laughter)—but because the answer
the Noble Lord may give to my question may be impor-
tant, and may enable me to give a more definite and satisfac-
tory answer to the question which he has put to me,
and to which I have promised to reply. The ques-
tion which I wish to put to the Noble Lord is, what
course it is the intention of her Majesty's Government to pur-
sue with respect to the Irish Tithe Bill and the interest of the
Irish Church ?—( Hear, hear.) At the meeting of Parliament,
her Majesty directed the attention of the Legislature to three
questions relating to the domestic policy of Ireland—the
establishment of a system of Poor-laws, the Reform of
Municipal Corporations in Ireland, and the altera-
tion of the laws regulating the collection of tithes
in Ireland—and the House assured her Majesty, in
an Address to which we unanimously agreed, that we
should consider these subjects. Now, as more than four
months have elapsed since that time, and, as I presume,
the Government have made up their minds as to those
measures to which they have directed the attention of
this House, I mar assume that they have made up
their minds as to the measures they intend to submit to
Parliament on the question of Irish Tithes.—( Hear, hear.)
The Right Hon. Baronet was proceeding to read the Resolu-
tions when he was interrupted by loud cries of " Hpar, hear.",
After a pause of a few minutes, the Right Hon. Baronet con-
tinued—l did not seek this—the course which the
Noble Lord has taken has imposed it upon me.
I find these Resolutions on the journals of the House :—" That
this House do now resolve itself into a Committee of the whole
House to consider the state of the Church Establishment in
Ireland, with a view to appropriating any surplus arising there-
from to the general education of the people ; that it is the
opinion of this House that no measure can be introduced for the
settlement of tithes in Ireland that will be likely to prove satisfac-
tory, that does not embody the foregoing-resolutions." Coupling
the existence of these resolutions with the speech froin the Throne
think myself entitled after the lapse of four months to put
this question to the Noble Lord—whether it is his intention to
bring forward any measure with respect to Irish tithes,
and whether it will involve the principle contained in
these Resolutions. Having received an answer from
the Noble Lord, I will then proceed to discharge the duty
which it will impose on me.
RUSSELL—The House will see that as
Lord JOIIN
the Right Hon. Bart. has put the question with some care, it
will be necessary for me to take time to answer it, and in order
to put myself within the rules of the House, I shall now
move that the House resolve itself into a Committee to take
into consideration the question of Irish Tithes on a certain
day to be hereafter named. The Right Hon. Gentleman
has complained that four months have elapsed, and that no
measure has been brought forward with respect to Irish
tithes. It did appear to me that it was the understanding
that the House should give its attention to certain measures
that were to be brought forward ; that these measures should
be disposed of separately, and so sent up to the House
of Lords ; that that House should not be called on
to consider all our measures at the same time when,
according to their own declaration, they had not suffi-
cient time to give these measures a separate and dis-
tinct consideration. The first measure recommended by her
Majesty was the Bill for the relief of the poor in Ireland, and
that measure has not only been read a second time, but has re-
ceived the most careful consideration from this House through-
out all its stages, so that I think it cannot be fairly said
th-at there has been any delay in bringing forward the mea-
sures recommended by her Majesty ; neither do I think it can
be said that it would have been wise to interrupt the progress
of that measure by the introduction of others. With regard to the
question of tithes in Ireland, it stands in this peculiar situation.
In the year 1834, a Bill was sent from that House which was
rejected by the House of Lords ; in 1835 a Bill was sent from
that House, which was considered so obnoxious in its provi-
sions that it was not prosecuted. In 1836 a Bill for the same pur-
pose was introduced, but in consequence of its provisions being
greatly curtailed it was not proceeded with. In 1837 another Bill
of the same kind was introduced, and as his Noble Friend the
Member for North Lancashire had declared, that unless the
Bill was altered in its provisions he should oppose it, be
considered that it was useless to proceed with it in its present
shape. He (Lord John Russell) did not think it wise for
the sake of legislation, or for the interests of the parties, that
this fruitless contest should be carried on. It would, therefore,
be the anxious wish of the Government to propose
such measures as would meet with the assent of both parties,
and would form a basis of adjustment between all. He would
say likewise that he thought it was the duty of the Govern-
ment, in bringing forward the question again, as far as it was
in their power, to propose a comprehensive measure, that
would give security to the Church on the one hand, and give
satisfaction to the people of Ireland on the other. With these
views he would give notice, that on the 30th of April the
question would bo introduced to the notice of the House, and
he would state further, that the measure was of such a
nature that it would be necessary to take the sense of the
House as on former occasions, not upon one, but upon
various resolutions as the ground work of the measure.
He thought it his duty to state that to the House, in order
that Hon. Members might have a general view of the nature of
the scheme intended to be proposed. But he declared that it
was the wish of the Government to come to a settlement of
the question ; and he thought that there was on the part of
those who opposed it in former years a growing desire for the
settlement; and he thought that if what he had-to propose
could he made the groundwork of the adjustment of this ques-
tion, it would be an advantage to Parliament in all its branches,
aid an advantage to Ireland.—( Hear.) At the beginning of
the Session there were petitions from the clergy, declaring that
they were satisfied with the present state of things ; but meet-
ings of that body had since been held which indicated an
altered state of opinion. If indeed it were the opinion of
one of the parties, most interested, that the law ought to be
allowed to operate without alteration, Parliament would be
unable to effect a satisfactory arrangement of the question,
and it would hardly be the duty of the Government—indeed

it would scarcely be posssible—to propose, in future, any
measure whatever which could be satisfactory.-.-(Hear. )
The Noble Lord then proceded to read the resolutions to the
following effect :—that the Ecclesiastical Tithe Composition,
should be continued on a rent charge, at the rate of
7-10ths of the amount—that on the expiration of existing
interests, so much of this rent charge as is chargeable
in !Loa of Tithes and Ministers' Money may be purchased at
sixteen years purchase, according to the original value.
That the Ecclesiastical Commissioners of Ireland be em-
powered to purchase any proportion of Tithe Composition,
not exceeding one-tenth in any one year.—( Hear, hear.)
That until such Composition be collected the Tithe Composi-
tion and Minister's money be paid out of the Consolidated Fund.
•—( Part of the resolution was entirely lost to those in the gal-
lery.) The remainder of the Resolutions were simply declaratory
of the necessity of future regulations for the better adjustment
of composition and rent charges. He would now leave it to the
Hon. Baronet to state what course he would take, and should
move that the House resolve itself into a General Committee
on the 30th of April, to take into consideration the state of
Irish tithes.
Sir R. PEEL thanked the Noble Lord for his frank de-
claration of the intentions of the Government, and also for
the decisive proof that he had thought. his (Sir Robert
Peel's) question but a natural one, inasmuch as the
Noble Lord was, without any concert with him, prepared
with an answer. He would follow the example set by the Noble
Lord, and endeavour to answer the question he had put, whether
or not upon moving that the House resolve itself into a Com-
mittee on the Municipal Corporation Bill the motion made in the
two preceding years,that the Bill should be separated, would be
repeated. There might be some force in the argument that
it was desirable to proceed with one measure at a time
if the Noble Lord had adhered to that principle ; but he
accompanied the discussion of the Poor-law Bill with the mea-
sure now proposed to be introduced with respect to the Irish
Corporations. Of course, the Noble Lord could not expect him
(Sir R. Peel) to express any opinion on the Resolutions. He
participated in.the wish expressed by the Duke of Wellington
at the close of the last session, that it might be possible for
Parliament to come to some satisfactory settlement of the ques-
tions which had so longoccupied the attention of the Legislature.
There was a prospect of settlement with respect to the Irish
Poor-law Bill. He wished it might be so with respect to the
Irish Corporations and the Irish Church Bills. But lie felt bound
to say that full security for the stability of the Irish Church was
an essential part of that settlement.—(Hear, hear.) He
trusted that he would not be considered unreasonable when he
proposed to postpone the Committee on the Irish Corporation
Bill until after the sense of the House had been taken upon
the Resolutions of the Noble Lord.—( Hear.) With respect to
the Resolutions he could give no opinion, but he sincerely
trusted the question would be settled, and the subject would
not be left the constant arena for contention.--( Hear.)
BOROUGH OF PONTEFRACT.

Mr. WARD rose for the purpose of withdrawing his pro-
mised motion upon the petition which he had presented to the
House from Sir C. E. Smith, relating to the payment of head-
money in the election of Members to serve in Parliament fur
.he borough of Pontefract. Having examined into the al-
leged facts he found they were by no means substantiated.
—( Hear.) The petition was then withdrawn altogether.
Mr. HUME also withdrew his motion to extend to Election

Committees the practice of entering the names of Members
who vote in diiisions of such Committees, doubting how far it
would be interfering with the Grenville Act.
Sir R. PEEL begged to know from the Hon. Baronet op-
pcsite (Sir G. Strickland), whether his Hon. Friend (Sir E.
Wilmot) intended to go on with his motion c,n the slave ques-
tion set down on the paper for Thursday ?
Sir G. STRICKL AND said, on Thursday. _

Sir R. PEEL would be glad to know, in that case would
the Noble Lord (J. Russell) go on with the Controverted
Election Committee on Friday? The Spanish question, which
would be immediately brought on by a Noble Lord (Eliot),
would probably occupy the House two nights ; the slave ques-
tion could not be fairly considered in less ; and then, after
four successive nights, would they have to enter upon the con-
sideration of the controverted elections? _ _

Lord J. RUSSELL, in case the unhappy prospect held
out to the House by the Right Hon. Baronet were ♦erified,
would propose to postpone the Controverted Elections Bill to
Monday.
STAMP DUTY ON FREEMEN'S BILL.

Mr. W. WILLIANIS rose to move for leave to bring in a
Bill to repeal the stamp duty on admission to the freedom of
cities and boroughs in England and Wales ; but Lord J. Rus-
sell having objected to the introduction of the Bill, on the
ground that a similar Bill had passed the House and been sent
up to the other House, the rejection of which by the other
House that House was not in the regular way cognisant of,
withdrew his motion.

SPANISH POLICY.
Lord EL lOT rose, in pursuance of his notice, to call the
attention of the House to the Order in Council made by her
Majesty's Government, suspending the provisions of the
Foreign Enlistment Act ; and, in doing so, he would be ob-
liged to bring under consideration their general course of
foreign policy.—( Hear, hear.) It was not necessary for him
to take a larger retrospect of Spanish affairs than the breaking
out of the civil war. The House was aware that the Salic
law had been introduced by Philip the Fifth. It also knew
Ferdinand put an end to that law, and changed the order of
succession. Hon. Members also knew that at the death of
Ferdinand Don Carlos retired to the frontier of Portugal, to
seek protection from Don Miguel. The treaty was then
formed with the Courts of London and Paris for the purpose
of expelling these two Princes from the Portuguese domi-
nions, and the expulsion of the two Princes was accomplished.
The object of the treaty was fulfilled, and the treaty itself at
an end.—(Hear.) But after Don Carlos had left this
country, and placed himself at the head of his partizans, the
Courts of England and France were again applied to for
additional assistance. In the stipulation which followed,
while England engaged to furnish not only arms and
money, France merely bound herself to furnish a pre-
ventive police to prevent stores from crossing the
Pyrenees. At this period the Duke of Wellington
came into office, and his first act was to fulfil i❑
every respect all the terms of the Quadruple Treaty esta-
blished by his predecessors.—( Hear, hear.) But not content
with that he took measures to put an end to the inhuman prac-
tice then used by the combatants of both sides, of putting to
death their prisoners. --( Hear.) He (Lord Eliot), as the
House was aware, had been deputed to carry those humane
intentions into effect. He had proceeded to the head quarters
of Don Carlos, and, in justice to that Prince, felt bound to
say that he on that occasion evinced every readiness to accede
to the proposal made.—( Hear.) Having obtained the assent
of Don Carlos he proceeded to the head quarters of Zumala-
carregui, and in fairness to the character of that extraordinary
man he found no difficulty in gaining his assent. He subse-
quently proceeded to the head quarters of the Commander-in-
Chief, and experienced from General Valdez not only kindness,
hut a readiness and a facility in accomplishing the object of his
mission. He acknowledged that he thought it would be diffi-
cult to have acted otherwise, because the numerous bands of
robbers with which the country was infested would have availed
themselves of the indulgence, under the pretence that they
were the troops of Don Carlos.--( Hear, hear.) He would
merely say with regard to this convention that he was rejoiced
to say that it was attended with great success, and he had the
concurrent testimony of the Spanish Minister and of the Carlist
officers that many lives had been saved by its operation. —( Hear. )
He was rejoiced.to take this opportunity of disclaiming any
merit in its success; if he could claim any merit, he must
share that merit with his gallant companion, Colonel Gur_
wood, a man well known in that House, who bad established

hi sreputation by leading the storming party at Ciudad Rod-
rigo, and had since conferred a great benefit on his country by
devoting his leisure to the arrangement of the invaluable de-
spatches of the Duke of Wellington.—( Hear, hear.) He
would now allude shortly to a topic which had for some time
excited considerable interest in this country ; he meant the
rights and privileges of the people of tie Basque Provinces.
—(Hear, hear.) No man who had witnessed the progress of
the present contest and the devotedness of that people to the
cause of Don Carlos, but must feel that there was something
real in those privileges on account of which they fought so
desperately ; in other parts of Spain there was great devotion
exhibited to the cause of Don Carlos. In no place did it
show itself to so great an extent as among the Basques. Im-
mediately after his mission the Administration ceased, and the

Noble Lord opposite resumed the controul of the Foreign
Department, and from that moment a more active intervention
was determined on. The Noble Lord sent his marine artil-

lerv, and his munitions of war, and also put forth his Order in
COuncil, authorising tho raising a force in this country for the
Queen of Spain. He ( Lord Eliot) would not venture to enter
deeply into the question of international law ; but he appre-
hended that none would dispute the proposition that war was
not justifiable unless necessary.—(The Noble Lord here read
an opinion of Jefferson, respecting war.) Even admitting
that the Noble Lord opposite was justified in the view he
took—that he was justified in permitting the raising of
troops in this country for the service of a foreign
State—still, looking to the interests of the men so en-
listed, it was the duty of the Noble Lord to see that all en-
gagements with them were religiously fulfilled, and that some
provision was made for those unhappy beings who were sent
back to their own country sinking under wounds and debili-
tated constitutions.—( Hear, hear.) He should have well re-
flected on the awful sacrifice of life. He (Lord Eliot) did
not wish to make any appeal to the feelings of the House on
this point, but he must express his opinion that the
.Noble Lord
did not exercise the sound judgment that became him on that
occasion. He ( Lord Eliot) would not go into the military
part of the question—that had already been disposed of by
his Right Honourable Friand ; he would not talk of defeat or
disgrace, but he hoped the Noble Lord would not quarrel
with him if he alluded to what he must be allowed to call the

failure of the expedition.—( Hear, hear.) He would read a
letter on this subject which he had received—a letter of which
the Noble Lord might believe as much as he chose-_a letter
from a distinguished officer in the service of Don Carlos, stat-
ing the comparative state of Spain at the landing of the Le-
gion and at the present time. The Noble Lord then pro.
ceeded to read an extract from the letter in question.
Mr. SHE IL asked for the date of the letter.
Lord E LIOT was not prepared with the date, nor d'.d he
vouch for its accuracy, but he could without difficulty procure
the date for the Hon. Member.

Mr. S HEIL merely asked the question from curiosity.
Lord ELIOT continued.—All he wished to prove was that
the Noble Lord had not succeeded in producing any impor-
tant change in the position of affairs at the seat of war, or in
the security of the Spanish Queen's Government. He (Lord
Eliot) had lately had a conversation with General San Ali
guel, who had served under General Valdez, one of the most
distinguished members of the Exaltado party, and Secretary
of State during the time of the Cortes, in 1823. General San
Miguel deprecated all foreign interference, whether French
or English, and said that if a nation could not herself achieve
freedom she was unworthy of it—( Hear, hear)—and that he

would rattier see the Carlists triumph than be indebtedted
foreign interference for their defeat. This was r:
the" fueling all
a.
et.
over Spain—not only of the Carlists, but of those ct:e went
succour, who could never divest themselves of a IA
w.ng
of
jealousy against their foreign auxiliaries. This was the elate
of affairs in Spain. And, then, they had the Count T.,veno
stating that it was impossible to get on without arrangcm.cnt
with Don Carlos ; and Espartero complaining of the to0:0
d, vitution of his army, and boasting as his only comfort that:.
:he army of his enemy was in a 'worse condition. But the.
Noble Lord would, perhaps, say the Government at least was
grateful. How stood the case ? In August last year, when
the public press was boasting that the successful exertions of
Sir George Villiers had procured for the British merchants an
exemption from taxes and forced loans, at that very xime Bar-
daxo was issuing his decree ordaining that no foreign rat:rchant
should have any exemption. So much for the gratitude o: the
Spanish Government. He (Lord Eliot) did not presume to
give his opinion, but it was the unanimous opinion of officers
of almost every nation, that at the time the Legion was sent
out, forty thousand disciplined troops would have been neces-
sary to restore peace to the country. They were told that a
million of money had been expended in sending arms Sand mu-
nitions of war to Spain. He believed that that SUM ‘.,al,- short
of the amount ; but now their own exigencies obliged !hem
to send troops to Canada, and they had actually no musk, is
for the men. The Guards, when they applied to have their'
muskets (which had been eleven years in use), changed, were
told that there were no new ones to replace them.
Sir H. VIVIAN (as we understood him), dissented from
the assertion of the Noble Lord.
Lord ELIOT—No matter how the fact was, a great
quantity of arms and munitions of war were sent out of the
country. He could not help thinking also that the Noble
Lord had incurred great responsibility to those persons who
had taken shares in the different loans contracted by the
Spanish Government. These people, seeing neither princi-
pal nor interest for their money, had just cause for reproaching
the Noble Lord.—( Hear, hear.) In looking over the speech
of the Spanish Minister Toreno he (Lord Eliot) found the
Spanish revenue to be about 9,000,0001., and the expendi-
tures about 7,000,0001. The interest on the debt, at 24 per
cent., was 3,500,0001. and the total deficit 3,500,000/. With
such a state of finance be could not see how the present Go-
vernment was to be sustained. He would now trouble the
Noble Lord with one more authority as to the propriety of
this expedition. In 1823 Mr. Canning said :
" There arc some individuals who think that this country
should immediately send forth a maritime armament to watch
the events that may occur on the shores of the Peninsula,
Such a course would, in my opinion, be unworthy of a great
and independent nation like our own, and would degrade us
from a first to a second-rate Power. Ido hope that whenever
we determine on war we shall determine to wage it not as an
auxiliary but as a principal. Such had hitherto been our po-
licy, and on all former occasions when we had resorted to
war we had exerted every nerve to bring it to a safe, a
speedy, and an honourable conclusion. Tot o cola tam cor-
pore regni. This was the only sound view in which war could
be contemplated."
This was the only sound view, and, coupling it with the opi.
nion so lately expressed by a Noble Duke, that a great country
could never be engaged in a little war, he (Lord Eliot)
thought the two authorities of such distinguished statesmen
were entitled to some attention. But let them look to the
conduct of the King of France—what was his language? He
( Lord Eliot) found in the speech of the King of France these
expressions :

I trust that the Constitutional Monarchy will triumph
over the dangers which menace it ; but I have wished to pre-
serve my country from sacrifices of which it was impossible to
forsee the extent, and from the incalculable consequences of
any armed intervention in the internal affairs of the Peninsula.
France reserves the blood of its sons for its own cause, and,
when found by sad necessity to call on them to shed it in her
defence, it is under her own glorious standard that French
soldiers march to battle."

—( Cheer.%) He would ask, could thoughts more just be clothed
in expressions more noble ? and he would say that it was his
earnest wish to hear some such speech emanating from the
Throne of his own Sovereign. The Noble Lord could not hope
to do much in Spain and Portugal now that France denied all
assistance, and he would have to brave alone the storms he
himself had brought down. He (Lord Eliot) wculd ask the
Noble Lord whether it was right to provoke the enmity of
Powers now in amity with this country—powers to whose me-
diation we were perhaps now indebted for the peace of Europe ?
Because, if they had acted on the principle ascribed to them,
they would hare actually assisted Don Carlos. lie believed
tliat to entirely retrace our steps would be unwise, and to re-
trieve past errors impossible ; but he thought it was yet in our
power to gain a position from which we might, at a fitting
occasion, step forth as mediators, and propose a Government
which would have the effect of restoring tranquillity to the
country, and of effecting the object of his motion, which was,
" That an bumble Address be presented to her Majesty, ex-
pressing to liar Majesty the opinion of this House that no ad-
vantage, either to the interests of this country, or to those of
Spain, has resulted from the employment of her Majesty's;
subjects in the service of her Catholic Majesty, in consequence
of the suspension, by Order in Council, of the provieiona of the
Foreign Enlistment Act; and since the continuation of such
Order in Council is not required by the obligations of existing
treaties, humbly praying that her Majesty will be graciously
plensed not to renew it."
Mr. C. FE RG U SSON could asmre the Nobte Lord that he
was the last person in the werld whom he would charge as
being a partisan of Don Carlos : on the contrary, he knew
that the Noble Lord had exerted himself to the utmost to
mitigate the rigour of that Prince's conduct Neither could
he disapprove of the measure of the Duke of Wellington l
sending the Noble Lord for the purpose of concluding the
convention, had that measure been carried to its full extent
on the side of humanity. There was no doubt—there could
be no doubt—that the soldiers of the Legion were included
in that convention, and, if so, they must a'so confess that the
147 Biitish subjects who fell victims to the Durango decree
were basely and inhumanly butchered.—( Hear, hear.) It
would be necessary to go back a little to consider this subject
fairly ; but he would do it as briefly as possible. On the death
of Ferdinand the Seventh the despotism which had afflicted
the country for ten years, a despotism as bad as ever afflicted
a country, terminated. On his death it was necessary that
those Powers interested in the fate of the Peninsula should
consider the line proper for them to take. The French were
the first who interfered. They had the authority of Thiera's
speech for saying that at the death of Ferdinand the.
French Government despatched an Envoy with written des-
patches, the contents of which were to offer such succour and
assistance as Spain should require. Let it not then he said
that the English were the first to begin.—( Hear, hear,
hear.) The French having thus taken the first step, the
English Government had no choice; and accordingly they
sent an Envoy. What were they to do? To remain neutral
was impossible.—( Hear, hear.) It was perfectly clear that,
if they had not taken some decided part, the way would have
been open to France to do as she chose—to establish a predo-
minate influence, and defeat the interests of the British nation.
—(Hear, hear.) If they had taken the other line, and as-
sisted the two Pretenders, they would have delivered over the
Peninsula to the Northern Powers. Ile (Mr. Fcrgusson)
believed that motions like the present would tend very much
to promote that object.—( Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord had
alluded to the Quadruple Treaty. The Noble Lord said that
its first object was the expulsion of Carlos and Miguel, and
that being done the object was accomplished. But he only
stated one-half, as the object of it was not only to chase them
from the territory, but there was an additional article binding
this country to establish each Sovereign in her respective
dominions—it was a treaty in fact not merely to expel the
Pretenders, but ;to establish the rightful Sovereigns. Ho
trusted the House would attend while he read the terms of the,
treaty. The Hon. Member then read the treaty. lie con-
tended they had a right to adhere to that treaty, and that
they were not restricted by the strict letter; but when they
entered into alliance they might transgress the letter, so
long as they adhered to, the spirit. Now, he would affirm •
that nothing had been done, either by the employment of the
Legion or by the Order in Council, inconsistent with the let-
ter or the spirit of that treaty. The Honourable Gentleman
proceeded to read the preamble of the treaty, but in so low a
tone as to be inaudible in the gallery, and continued. He
would now refer to the obligations of the King of France.
That Monarch tendered all the assistance that was in his
power. His words were very strong. He promised the ac-
tive co-operation of France, and to do whatever should be
settled on by common consent with his allies for the complete
attainment of the objects of the Treaty. Now that Treaty
had but one object, and that was to give stability to the
Thrones of Spain and Portugal. That it was a hostile Treaty
no person could deny. Louis Philippe was a party to that
Treaty—he engaged to blockade his frontier (this was a bel-
ligerent measure) and to prevent the passage of stores
through France. Could any one say, after that, that he was
not a consenting party to the Treaty as well as England ? This
was a material consideration. England did not act alone. She
applied to France, and in France the Foreign Legion was
raised, commanded by one of the bravest officers in the
French Army, Colonel Conrad, who fell during the war. Let
it not be said then that England acted alone. lie (Mr. C.
Fergusson) considered that she was only on the same footing
with the French Government, and he believed that both
countries would have gone on well together were it not for the
revolution of La Granja. After which the French people did
not take the same interest in the affairs of Spain. On the
other hand, England, by her fair conduct, had established her
good faith throughout the world, and no part of modern his-
tory would redound more to the honour of Great Britain than
the record of the manner in which she had fulfilled the Quad-
ruple Treaty. Were we not compelled to this course ? It
was asked why did we not at once declare war against Don
Carlos? Against whom ? Against a brigand, against the
author of the Durango Decree, a man to be hunted down and
not made war against ?—( Hear, hear.) We had never been
at war a ith him—we had endeavoured to coerce him by all
the means in our power, and in most cases we succeeded—
in some we did not succeed. He believed the intention
of the Noble Lord was to prove that no advantage had
been procured I,)y the Order in Council. In considering
that question let them consider the state of Spain when the
Legion went there. The army was small in number and
badly disciplined, and it was necessary to give some impetus
to the cause, and he would contend that the arrival of the
Legion produced an immense moral effect on the affairs of
Spain.—( Hear, hear.) In a very short time the gallant acts
of the Legion struck terror into the hearts of the Carlists, and
excited the admiration of Europe. Ho (Mr. C. Ferguson)
believed that it would be found by those who considered the
campaign that but for the Legion St. Sebastian must have
fallen, and also Bilboa, which event would have been imme-
diately followed by the recognition of Don Carlos by the
Northern Powers.—( Hear.) This was his firm belief.—
Hear.) This was a calamity from which the Legion had
signed
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