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London, England, 1853-04-29 00:00:00

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[PRICE SD.

THE COMMITTEE ON DOCKYARD APPOINT-

MENTS AND PROMOTIONS.

MR. STAFFORD'S CASE.

Yesterday the select committee appointed by the
House of Commons to inquire into the circumstances
arising out of and connected with the investigation before
the recent committee on the Chatham election, and
generally into the exercise of the influence and patron-
age of the Admiralty in the several Parliamentary
boroughs connected with the dockyards, met for the first
time.

The members of the committee were--Lord Seymour
(ch Lordnot H
generallyotham , Sir
expected
thatHtailile, SinqirFnierr3-,
r aa)
Fer-
guson Davie, and Mr. Beckett.
Althougham
would be open to the public, the room was crowded
during the day by officers and others of the Admiralty
and dockyards, and members of the House interested in
the inquiry.
Sir Baldwin Walker was the first witness called and
examined—He deposed that he filled the appointment of
surveyor to the Admiralty, and that about the last day
of March, 1852, Mr. Grant cane to him from Mr. Staf-
ford, with a request that witness would not submit the
names of the persons to be promoted into the vacancies
for foremen and inspectors of shipwrights in Devonport
Dockyard, as Mr. Stafford's political friends were dis-
satisfied, and he wished to promote some of their party.
Witness felt annoyed at receiving such a message, and
requested Mr. Grant to inform Mr. Stafford that wit-
ness had been upwards of four years in the department,
that he had not allowed political notions to influence his
submission to the board with respect to promotions in
the dockyard, and that he was not going to commence
jobbing for Mr. Stafford or anybody else, and witness
requested' that such a proposition should never again
be named to him. Mr. Eden, of witness's depart-
ment, entered the room during the conversation and
heard what witness said to Mr. Grant. On the 3d
of April, 1852, witness received the confidential let-
ter referred to by Mr. Stafford in his speech in the
House of Commons on the evening of the 19th of
April, 1853, to which witaess replied on the same day,
and on the sth of the same month witness had a
warm argument with Mr. Stafford, at the Admiralty,
during which he informed witness that, as his political
friends were dissatisfied at the manner in which promo-
tions and entries were made in the dockyards, he had
no alternative but to cancel the circular of 1847, and on

witness pointing out the evil that would arise from such

a step, kr. Stafford said, " There's no use blinking the
question ; I am so pressed by the Government I cannot
help myself ;" adding, that he was ready to take all the
responsibility on his own shoulders. The interview
ended by witness informing Mr. Stafford that if he can-
celled the order without taking any other step to rectify
the evils he stated existed, witness should consider it a
personal thing to himself, On the 19th of April, 1852,

the circular was cancelled by Mr. Stafford Without the
knowledge of the board, but n• notice was sent to the
surveyor, and he enly knew that !such was the case by
the dockyard returns, acknowledging its receipt. On the
same day (April 21) witness wrote the letter tendering
his resignation, which was addressed to the Secre-
tary of the Admiralty, Witness read this letter
to the Senior Naval Lord, Vice-Admiral Parker,

he being immediately connocted with witness's de-
partment, Captain Milne being present at the time.
Admiral Parker took the letter, and told witness
he would bring it before the board. On the day follow-
ing the delivery of the letter witness was sent for, and
Admiral Parker asked him if he would meet Mr. Staf-
ford in his room, to talk over the subject of the letter,
. .

which witness did ; and during that interview the order
cancelling the circular of September, 1849, was warmly
discussed, and Mr. Stafford again repeated what he had
stated as to there being no use " blinking the question."
On witness stating to Mr. Stafford that cancelling the
circular must lower him in the estimation of the super-
intendents of the dockyards, Mr. Stafford assured him
that such was not his intention, and that he was ready
to write any private letter witness might think proper
to show, to which witness replied, " I require no private
conversation ; yours has been a public act, and it can
only be rectified by a public act," to which Mr. Stafford
said he saw no objection to a public letter being sent.
Witness having told Mr. Stafford that that was a question
for the board to decide then tendered his resignation, and
Mr. Stafford then read a draft of a circular he proposed
should be brought before the board for their decision, in
which some alteration was made. Admiral Parker had wit-
ness's letter in his hand during the interview, and which
contained his resignation. On the 27th of April, 1852,
Admiral Parker informed witness that the board had
ordered the circular in question to be sent to the dock-
yards, and he thought witness ought to be satisfied ; to
which witness replied, that, although it cleared his cha-
racter, he did not consider it satisfactory, for the board
had confirmed an act the secretary had been guilty of
without their knowledge. On the 2d of April, 1852,
witness received a letter from the Admiralty, enclosing

a copy of the circular to the superintendents of the dock-
yards, dated 26th of April, 1852, which he considered
an answer to the letter he wrote tendering his resigna-
tion. Witness had no idea that letter had not been
officially brought forward, nor was he aware, when he
wrote to the board on the 25th November, 1852, that
it had been destroyed, for he never authorised its de-
struction or withdrawal, and considered it had been
before the board and was on record. Witness wrote the
letter of the 21st April, 1852, in consequence of an im-
putation having been cast upon his character, which the
board circular, of the 25th April, 1852, had cleared up ;
but finding that unjust promotions were being made
in the dockyards, and that the circular of February,
1847, was not adhered to, he felt that he had a duty
to perform to the public, and this induced him to write
the letter of May 10, 1852, to the First Lord of the Ad-
miralty. That letter witness requested Captain Pelham
to deliver to the Duke of Northumberland, and witness
read a copy of it at the time to the first naval lord, Ad-
miral Parker, who remarked, " I think you are quite
right ; there is nothing like going to the fountain head."
Witness never received any reply to that letter. On the
22d November, 1852, witness received a note from Mr.
Stafford, enclosing Admiral Berkeley's intended notice
to the house respecting the correspondence between the
Admiralty and the Surveyor. Mr. Stafford wished to
know what it meant, as he was not aware of any ; to
which witness replied that he could not at that time find
any of the copies, but at his residence, but that he had
no doubt his letters were at Whitehall. On the follow-
ing day, the 23d of November, Mr. Stafford replied to
Admiral Berkeley and Sir George Pechell that there was
no correspondence with the Surveyor of the Navy on
the subject of promotions in the dockyards, and also that
the Surveyor of the Navy had not tendered his resigna-
tion. On the 25th of November, in consequence of the
answer given by the Secretary of the Admiralty in the
House of Commons, witness wrote the following letter
to the board, calling their attention to the letters of the
21st of April and 10th of May, 1852 :
" Somerset-house, Nov. 25, 1852.
" Sir,—Having observed in the public papers that the
Secretary of the Admiralty is reported to have stated in
the House of Commons, on the evening of the 23d. inst., in
reply to certain questions asked by Admiral Berkeley and
Sir George Pechell, that there was no correspondence with
the Surveyor of the Navy on the subject of the promotions
in the dockyards, and also that the Surveyor of the Navy
had not tendered his resignation, I desire through you to
call the attention of my Lords the Commissioners of the
Admiralty to the letters from me bearing date 21st April
and 10th May last.
'I have the honour to be, sir, your most obdt. servant,

"B. W. WALKER.
" A Stafford, Esq., M.P., Secretary of the Admiralty."
On witness going to the Admiralty on that day, the 25th,
he was told that Mr. Stafford wished to speak to him, and
Mr. Stafford commenced the conversation by naming wit-
ness's letter, and stating the answer he had given in the
House of Commons. Witness then asked him, " What
could have induced him to give such answers?" Mr. Staf-
ford replied, " What would you have me say?" Witness
answered, "Anything but what you did say, for you know
that I tendered my resignation, and that some days after
I wrote a letter to the First Lord of the Admiralty."
Mr. Stafford stated that was a private one, pointing at
the same time to what appeared to witness to be a copy
of his letter to the Duke of Northumberland on Mr.
Stafford's table. Witness observed that it was a letter
from the Surveyor of the Navy to the First Lord, and
left the room. On the 27th of November, 1852, witness
received the following letter :
" Admiralty, Nov. 26, 1852.

" Surveyor of the Navy.
" With reference to your letter of the 25th inst., I am to
acquaint you that your letters of the 21st of April and 10th
of May, referred to by you, do not appear to have reached
the Record department of this office, and my lords, there-
fore, request you will transmit copies of those letters.
By command of their lordships,
"A. STAFFORD."
Witness had copies made, and wrote the following letter,
enclosing it to the Secretary of the Admiralty :
" Somerset-house, Nov. 29, 1852.
" Sir, With reference to your letter of the 26th inst.,
I beg to ; acquaint you that since my communication of the
25th inst., I have been informed that my letter of the
21st
of April, addressed to the Secretary of the Admiralty,
which was delivered to Vice-Admiral Hyde Parker, was
munic atiOn the
l - adh
u gf
the
l beforeoth otfh e3fbaoya,r ill t
wasl witheo referencem
dressed to the First Lord of the Admiralty, and not to the
notett e brr o°
Secretary.--I have the honor to be, sir,
.r2ur most obe-
Sec. of the Admiralty."
dient servant,
g witness Saturday.
re
" B. W. WALKER.
" Aug. Stafford, Esq., M.P.,
Witness took it to 'Whitehall, but when he got there it
requesting that witness
was late, and the members hadleftt,heit2bBetihn,
Witness took the letter home, intending to send it o
Mr.O n
Stafford, Sunday,
c Monday
eiv e d a n morning.ot fr oi
would meet him at the Admiralty 0
between 9 and 11 o'clock. Witnessn Monday morning
after 9 o'clock, and saw Mr. Stafford, went there soon
that he had hit on a plan of who told witness
witness would meet his wishes,settling the affair i,f
again differed the fault would and
that if they
Stafford's. be witness's, and not Mry
"I," continued
what it was." He said, ~ B the witness
the " asked hin.i
letters called for." I told himo not send copies of the
got an official letter to do that I must, for I had
agree to his proposal, sof He pressed
mehard to
that I could not with but
- did not consent, stating
then left Mr. Stafford andaily propriety do so. Witness
told him that lie was going went to Admiral Parker, and
letters (and he had sgoing to send in copies of the
them in his hand at the time)—one

~.~s-c.
_~

the Duke of Northumberla. and the other tender.
his resignation, which he must recollect he had
ight forward. Admiral Parker advised witnee3,
he sent them in, to see the First Lord, which he
much to his surprise, his grace told him that
nad never seen or heard of witness's letter tendering
his resignation ; and his grace stated, with much warmth,
that had it been given to him he should have at once
taken it to Lord Derby. Witness reminded his grace
that he had spoken to witness on the subject of that letter :
and, on the duke again repeating what he had said, wit-
ness told his grace that he held in his hands a copy of
that letter, which.he was at perfect liberty to make what
use of he thought proper. About this time Admiral
Parker entered the room, and witness expressed his sur-
prise at hearing his grace state that he had not seen or
heard of the letter tendering his resignation, upon which
Admiral Parker reminded the duke that he had put the
letter into his grace's hand. The admiral then informed
witness that he had been thinking the matter over since
he had left him, and that he did not think witness's letter
had been brought before the board, and that he had an
impression that it had been destroyed. Witness imme-
diately left the Admiralty and went to Somerset House,
taking the letter and copies back with him, and feeling
much hurt and annoyed. Witness had not been there
long before Captain Milne came to him from Mr. Staf-
ford with a request that he would not send in copies of
the letters. This point witness did not give in, but
wrote another letter, stating that, since his letter of the
26th of November, he had been informed that his letter
of the 21st of April, 1852, which was delivered to Ad-
miral Parker, had not been brought before the board, and
that witness's letter of the 10th of May, 1852, was ad-
dressed to the First Lord of the Admiralty, and that he
begged to enclose copies, agreeably to their lordships'
order of the 26th inst. The letter, with the inclosures,
witness took to the Admiralty, and placed in the hands
of Mr. Stafford, who, on opening it, expressed his sur-
*ise at witness having inclosed copies of the letter, as
Captain Milne had led him to believe that witness had
promised to withhold them. Witness assured him that
he had not made such a promise ; and Mr. Stafford fur-
ther stated that it was of no use sending them in to be
placed in the Record-office, to be read by all the clerks;
and lie begged witness to again see Captain Milne on the
subject, which he did, and witness was induced to give
in the point to that officer's urgent request, who stated
that there was no use raking up an affair that had passed
over, and from witness feeling that Mr. Stafford had
committed himself in having given the answer he did
in the House of Commons.
By the Chairman—gave no promotions taken place
in the dockyard from the.date- when Mr. Stafford was
first appointed Secretary to the Admiralty, up to the
-2d of April, 1852, when he wrote the letter to you that
was read in the House of Commons, that you would
give cause for dissatisfaction ?—Witness was not aware
of any ; the only thing that struck him at this moment
was in the case of a person of lower grade at Woolwich,
which was an arrangement made by Mr. Stafford.
Knew that the circular of 1849 was cancelled without
the knowledge of the board, from being informed of it
by Admiral Parker.
What is your interpretation of the term, "without the
knowledge of the board?" If it was cancelled without the
knowledge of the First Lord, should you consider it was
cancelled without the knowledge of the board?—There was
no official board minute, and I received the information
from Admiral Parker. Did not place the letter tendering
his resignation in the hands of Admiral Parker condition-
ally. Admiral Parker took the letter and said he would
lay it before the board, The letter was intended as an
actual resignation of office. Subsequently, on the 28th
of April, witness received an official communication,
inclosing the circular he had mentioned, stating that
there was no imputation intended to be cast on witness's
characted. The word "imputation" was in witness's letter
of resignation, and he concluded that this communica-
tion was in answer to his letter, and witness, conceiving
his character was cleared, thought no further steps were
necessary in the matter. Considered his character
cleared. Was content to carry on the duties of his office
without applying to have the resignation enforced ; and
received no letter to say his resignation had been accepted.
The gallant officer then enumerated particular cases he
designated as unjust promotions, stating that those
artisans recommended to the post f leading men by the
Superintendent of the dockyard were not promoted to
the appointment. He was not aware of any man being
promoted who had no vote, or who voted for the opposite
political party. Witness then read two letters, which
he stated he had Admiral Parker's permission to
produce, relative to the existence of the system
of unjust promotions in the dockyards. They were
both from Admiral Parker to himself. In one the
Admiral, speaking of the appointment of the mas-
ter smith at Portsmouth, said it was really too bad
that everything was to be made subservient to party
purposes ; and in the other he urged witne s to write
strongly and publicly to the board, that the appointment
might remain as a record, adding, " I have been much
amazed on the whole subject, and have told the duke
that, if I am to be held responsible for the speedy equip-
ment of the fleet, it is quite impossible for me to do so
if the appointments are made without any regard to the
public service, but by private favour. So it is ; and it
is really quite disgusting.
By Sir B. Hall—l understand you to say that he
stated to you his political friends were dissatisfied ; that
he would cancel the circular, and that upon your point-
ing out the evils that would result from it Mr. Stafford
said, " there was no use in blinking the question—h e
was so pressed by the Government he could not help
himself." Now, when Mr. Stafford made use of that
expression, did he mention the name of any member of
the, Government who had pressed him to take this
course

Sir B. Walker—He did.
Sir B. Hall—Whose name did he mention ?
Sir B. Walker—He mentioned the names of Lord
Derby and the Chancellor of the Exchequer.
Sir B. Hall—What did he say with reference to thes
gentlemen having pressed him ?
Sir B. Walker—Perhaps the term " Government "
was a wrong term for me to use. His expression was,
"It is of no use blinking the question, and I am so
pressed by Lord Derby and the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer that I cannot help myself." That was again
repeated in the presence of Admiral Parker during the
interview I had on the subject of tendering my resignatiou
Sir B. Hall—Did Mr. Stafford appear to imply that
he received orders from those members of the Adminis-
tration you have named to adopt the course he had then
taken ?

Sir B. Walker—l came to that conclusion.
By the Chairman—How long have you been Surveyor
of the Navy ?—Since February, 1848.
I wish to know whether in any promotions in the
dockyards, since you have been Surveyor of the Navy,
political influence has been exercised l—l can most con-
scientiously say, as far as my knowledge goes, that not
one man has ever been advanced for political objects.
During Sir Francis Baring's administration he bound
every officer down, in every appointment he granted, to
the principle that political influence should not in any
way interfere with the fulfilment of the public service,
and he pledged himself that he would not himself use
any political influence. All the officers in the yard at
Portsmouth could testify to this.
As most men have political feelings one way or other,
I would wish to know, Sir Baldwin Walker, whether
yon have any strong political predilections ?—I have
not. I have not been much in England. I went to
sea when I was 11 years old, and have constantly been
employed in her Majesty's service. I have never given
a vote in my life, or taken any part in polities what-
ever. I looked entirely to the good of the profession,
and not to any political advantage whatever. I never
turned to the right or left in doing my duty, and
have nothing whatever to conceal. Witness then
proceeded with a statistical enumeration of the num-
ber of appointments that had taken place in the dock-
yards from the date of the circular of the 19th of
April, 1852, to November, 1852, and stated his im-
pression from these returns, that there were 300 more
appointments during that period than there were in
the preceding year.
By Lord Hotham and Sir F. Davie—Considered that
the efficiency of the national dockyards depended ont hese
arrangements with reference to promotion, and if advance-
ments did not take place in reference to merit, the pub-
lic service must suffer. Mr. Stafford had wished him
infodumtoctoperondtsucweethre caleleltetdersfethat
ib y
the Horse
call
of
and it was not objected to by the department, witness
always furnished them. Admitted he was in error in
s called
ommforPo but
Commons,
n
not having done this, when Captain Milne said i
as
of no use raking up these matters.
Mr. Walter Eden, of the Surveyor's-office, Somerset-
house, was then called, and stated that in the course of
his official experience he had never known papers or
documents lost in the way those in question hadt l
tin.
Admiral Parker was next examined at grea !3 ,
contained in Sir B. Walker's evi e_
ofures.ignation, think-
that he had destroyed the lettei:
and deposed in confirmation of most
d ceof thuee
l
to was settled, and
ing that the business it related also statedu
peace
ttedraryWto the
expressb a r
re-
commendations. -
a 4 to the Board of
No complaint had ever
of any political power by
Admiralty of the use
Navy
Complaints had been
the Surveyor of the N
made. It never
made that promotions too
some
at ri em
time
f after t he circularit
was issued, issued
kbwflna.cesmubcominet
commendations. Had been at the board about two
eln not
fmathe board. It was grave
year, and came. in with tthe Duke of Northumberland's
st"g:tetamffcnoo.grdniguannatsci
matter, and witness remonstrated and mentioneda
it to
the First Lord, but did not bring it under the considera-
tion of the board. The First Lord was of witness's
opinion, that it was a grave matter,
withoutmMinri
the couase taken by the Secretary of
and disapproved of
issuing a circular cancelling the the Admiralty, in
carried out by Sir B. Walk system of promotion
Walker's resignation might haveer. The subject of Sir B.
of conversation at the board. been made the subject
When the matter was
brought to his notice did not remember asking to see
the circular, which was not not
brought before the board, or
confirmed at it. Witness,
during his examination at
Portsmouth, had never noticed the exercise on the
of the officers, of an political' part
y bias, in carrying out pro,
motions.
Mr. Houghton and Mr. Pennel, clerks at the Ad-
miralty, were then called to prove from the minute
books of the Board of Admiralty that there were no
minutes with reference to the circular of cancelment,
and that search had been made at the Admiralty, for the
various missing documents, but that as yet had not
been found.
The noble Chairman then inquired whether it would
be desirable, in order to give time for consideration of
the evidence, to adjourn the proceeding to Saturday.
Perhaps Mr. Stafford would tell the committee what his
feelings were on the subject.
°mow.
Mr. Stafford—l think we had better go on to-m
ourn to
The noble Chairman—The committee will adjourn
11 o'clock to-morrow. t witness. • ,
Mr. Stafford—And I will be the firs
The committee then adjourned.