The Sun.
London, England, 1853-06-10 00:00:00

stated that the police failed in the protection of life and
property in the lower province, and that it had become
the engine of oppression. It added that a man might
be detained for 15 days before a magistrate, and that
it was not unusual for witnesses to be in the com-
pounds of a magistrate for weeks. The petitioners stated
that native policemen employed terror as a means of detec-
tion, and that torture was believed to be practised by them
also. The law and police, they said, spread corruption
among the native population; the police controlled the
magistrates, instead of the magistrates controlling the
police, and hence the terrible evils which were entailed by
the system. The hon. member for Honiton sneered all
through his speech at the hon. member for Manchester, and
asked him why he had quoted from the Friend of India,
rather than from Mr. Marshman's evidence ? Mr. Marsh-
man's evidence, however, made the case no better, for he
said that in the Bengal presidency dacoity, or night rob-
beries, were so common, that scarce a night passed n
which' three or four were not committed with impunity,o
and that only a year or two ago the magistrates confessed
that no man with 201. or 301. in his pocket could retire to
rest without a prospect of being plundered before he rose
in the morning. And yet Calcutta was the oldest of the
British settlements, and had been so for 100 years. He
(Mr. S.) had been in all the countries between England and
Central Asia—the Caspian Sea—and he knew of no place
where life or property was so insecure as it was in Bengal,
or where the inhabitants were so ill-governed. The Pre-
sident of the Board of Control had denied that any man
under 25 was appointed magistrate in India.
Sir C. WOOD—As judge.
. Mr. SEYMOUR—When the right hon. gentleman made
that statement, Sir Erskine Percy was seated under the
gallery of the house, and sent a note to the hon. member
for Manchester to say that his own experience differed
altogether from that of Sir G. Clerk, upon whom the right
hon. gentleman relied. Mr. Marshman's evidence was fully
confirmatory of the fact, however; they were called "boy
magistrates" by the natives, and to this was entirely attri-
buted the badness of the police. Criminal justice was by
that means deteriorated throughout the whole length and
breadth of the land, because of the youth and inexperience
of these judges.
Sir C. WOOD—Not judges.
Mr. SEYMOUR asked, however, should a magistrate be
under 25 any more than a judge ; or should the vast powers
entrusted to magistrates in India over the lives and pro-
peties of the natives be entrusted to the sons and nephews
of directors not yet arrived at years of discretion ? Mr.
Marshman stated that when there was a good understand-
ing between the sessions judge and the magistrate appeal
was a farce ; when the contrary existed, the sessions judge
consistently and uniformly repealed the order of the magis-
trate. The committee had only examined interested par-
ties, whose evidence, could not, therefore, be safely trusted.
Mr. Sullivan even had been refused, though he offered him-
self as a witness, because it was known that his opinions
were adverse to the present system. Several witnesses had
been heard to express their indignation at the conduct of the
committee, and to say that it lowered public men in their
estimation. Within the limits of the Supreme Courts
money could be had at 5 per cent. ; outside of these limits
and within those of the company's courts it could not be
had for less than 12 per cent. The right hon. gentleman
and the noble lord the member for London could have had
these and other facts before the committee ; but they had
played throughout the game of the India Company, espe-
cially the noble lord, who, indeed, had altogether shirked
the subject in his programme of the session, and who had,
moreover, proposed to continue the charter two years pre-
viously, but for the question of the hon. member for Lynn,
which led to the appointment of a committee. It was the
fashion in that house to sneer at the hon. member for
Manchester, and to describe him as a discontented
Radical, in reference to the subject of India. The
late Sir R. Peel, whose provident mind was occupied for
years previously to the expiration of the charter, with the
future of India, had, however, consulted that hon. member
on more than one occasion in connection with the subject.
Notwithstanding that, the hon. member was excluded
from the committee, though he presided over the cotton
committee, and eight safe men were appointed by the Go-
vernment. These facts were not calculated to make the
plan palatable to the public ; and that it was not palatable
was proved by the fact, that out of all the newspapers in
England, only two paid journals supported it—namely, the
Globe and the Morning Chronicle. The hon. member then
proceeded to read Mr. Macaulay's description of the govern-
ment of India in 1763, in reply to the statement of the
noble member for London that the East India Company
had governed that country for a period of 70 years with
exemplary wisdom and prudence. It was to the effect that
misgovernment was then carried to a point incompatible
with the existence of society; and that British rule in India
was more like the government of evil genii than of civilised
human beings. In respect to more recent times, Mr.
Burke had said the English Government in India was no-
thing but a succession of officers—a commonwealth with-
out a people—a state made up of magistrates. While Mr.
Kaye, the latest writer of all, said that the servants of the
Company regarded the natives as dark-faced, dark-souled
Gentiles, whom it was their business to overreach in peace
and to overcome in war. That was a pretty picture of a pa-
ternal government. Mr. Kaye added, among other facts,
that there was a race of natives in India who worshipped
devils ; and that these poor people had most prominent
among their infernal deities the image of an Englishman,
whom they propitiated with sacrifices of spirits and cigars.
In 1833, Mr. Shore, and he was high—perhaps the highest
authority—and that one reason of the mystery that per-
vaded the government of India was the dread of the
directors that their system of government would be exposed.
He, too, bore testimony to the diminution of kindly feeling
towards the English on the part of the natives, and stated
that the chief end, aim, and object of the company's go-
vernment seemed to be the exaltation of the few and the
oppression of many ; first, by appointing to all offices of
power and trust persons utterly ignorant of India ;
secondly, by excluding the natives from all such
offices ; and, thirdly, by acting on the idea that the natives
were unfit for any functions except the most inferior and
ill-paid offices. Mr. Cameron and Mr. Chapman, high
authorities, also bear testimony to the same effect ; the
latter stating that vast heaps of humanity, festing in com-
pulsory idleness, encumbered the soil, but that it might
one day turn to gunpowder, and ignite at the slightest
touch. He (Mr. Seymour) asked the hon. member for
Honiton whether Mr. Kaye's book was paid for out of the
taxes levied on the people of India—(hear)—as the " His-
tory of India," written by Mr. Thornton, to supersede the
continuation of Mountstewart Elphinstone's history, was
said to have been? The continuation by the latter was still
unpublished • but it was asserted that the inferior work
intended to be set aside had cost the India Company no
less than 7,0001., though it could now be had for a low
price at a book-stall. In the speeches of the President of
the Board of Control and of the noble lord the member
for London little or nothing had been said of the
100,000,000 of natives ; it seemed as if the whole question
had reference solely to the Board of Directors and
the Board of Control. In this respect the course of
the Government contrasted most unfavourably with that
of Lord Glenelg in 1833, whose reference to that great
empire, which fell into our hands less by the will of
Providence than through our own crimes, was marked by
a tone of high moral elevation and anxious desire to pro-
mote the happiness as well as the enlightenment of the na-
tive population. The hon. member for Honiton sneered
all through his speech at the statements of the hon. mem-
ber for Manchester ; but the hon. member himself had in
most of his own statements misrepresented, unintentionally
of course, the facts. He had misrepresented the facts as
regarded Mr. Kaye ; and he had charged the hon. member
for Manchester twith quoting scraps and patches from
magazines and newspapers. Mr. Norton, the vakeel of the
Madras Government, however, had borne testimony to the
incompetency of the judicial bench, and to the general in-
efficiency of the present system - and Mr. Prinsep, himself
a director, stated that the administration of justice in
India had fallen into the worst repute, and was open to
the most serious imputations. It had been said by Sir G.
Clerk that it was the impression that European judges
were incorruptible ; but to correct this opinion, informa-
tion came shortly afterwards to the effect that two of the
judges of the Sudder Court had been removed under suspi-
cious circumstances. For the reasons he had already ad-
duced, ho was of opinion that the company's system of
government was not a good one. It had been stated that
the Madras petition contained allegations that were incor-
rect ; but if there were inaccuracies in that petition, those
inaccuracies were but slight, and ought not tb have led to
the virtual rejection of the petition. Tho allegations
of the petition ought to have been thoroughly inves-
tigated. Sir G. Clerk asserted that where the ryot-
whar system prevailed there was great poverty. The
testimony of Colonel Sykes was to the effect that land
had very little or no value in Madras, because of
over•assessment. Farming was a wild speculation.
The rent was divided, not between the Govern-
ment and the farmer, as it ought to be, but between the
Government and the usurer. The system must be radi-
cally faulty to produce such results. When land was in
this state, it was fair to infer that the population was in
an equally degraded state, and when the population was
degraded that did not say much for good government. It
bad been said by the hon. member for Huntingdon that
the object for all good government was to ensure security
for life and property ; but there was no property in land
in Madras, and there was very little security for life. He
admitted that these censures did not apply to all districts,
but they certainly did to some. He would quote from the
Calcutta Review to prove the character of the civil service.
But he would first give an extract from the Cawnpore sta-
tistics to prove that the average allowed to the cultivator
was only 2s. lid. per head, and yet this was one of the
most favoured districts. Had there been a proper system
of government, it would not have been necessary for the
company to have laid out a shilling in irrigation, because
capitalists would have come forward to do all that was re-
quisite. Was it true or not, that Colonel Cotton had
written two very damaging reports relative to the affairs
and management of the company, and that these reports
were suppressed under special, but not very honourable,
circumstances to the company ; was it true that 100,000
persons died from famine yearly in India, which might
have been prevented by due exertions on the part of the
company, and which in fact had been of late prevented by
the energetic efforts of Colonel Cotton ? Many hon. gen-
tlemen saw in this bill only a temporary measure—a
measure merely to brellk the fall of the directors, and he
could assure the government that public intelligence and
public determination would not permit the existing system
to continue, or the Court of Directors to be in existence.
If legislation had been delayed for a year, the prospective
agitation at the present incomplete measure would have
been impossible. The changes contemplated were of great
commercial importance. (Hear, hear, from Mr. Hastie.)
They were of particular importance to the copstituency of
the bon. gentleman opposite who had interrupted him, and
who ought to state his views on this important matter.
He considered that a Government which had not attended
to the clue administration of justice, and had debarred the
natives from holding suitable offices—which had placed
obstacles in the way of settling permanently British com-
merce in India, had not done its duty well. (Hear.) He
had now answered the challenge of the hon. member for
Renton, who said if it could be shown the Government
had not been a good one that the company would not have
a leg to stand upon.
Mr. HASTIE, who had been alluded to, said before bon.
members proceeded to tear down an old system they
ought to be prepared(Hoeashow what they proposed to sub-
stitute in its stead. hear.) The agitation which had
been got up on this questionr
i was mainly referable to a
few disappointed persons
and others. In 1813 an lawyers, newspaper writers,
ationlEo,, had been got up to
throw open the cotton trade.gi r.) It was then about
600,0001. a year, and now it w_aes upwards 5,000,0001.
tieemomen that the system
It had been asserted by honlingdia
of government of the East
PanY had been to
throw millions of the natives out of employment. This,
be asserted, had been done by the Manchester people
company ; for, in order to further litth:eoiner
—not by the
own cotton trade, they kept on a duty of 60
Indian cottons, and compelled the natives of India to
receive Manchester cottons at 5 per cent. duty. The hon.
member his constituents had a deep interest.
member opposite
That might be ; but it was not to give
in the question.
ent, but to enable them to tax the
the natives employm
native commodity so that the Manchester people might
ren
undersell them in their own market. rar,tonx he;
.)
a duty
Wh
India was compelled to recelle cot at