The Sun.
London, England, 1854-08-08 00:00:00

an answer off hand, but there were papers on the table
which would furnish the exact information required.
The bill then passed through committee, and was
ordered to be reported to-morrow.
ENCUMBERED ESTATES (WEST INDIES)
BILL.

On the motion for going into committee on this bill,
Sir J. PAKINGTON made an appeal to the gene-
rosity of the Government to deal leniently with the
West India estate holders whose property was mortgaged
to the State. If the Government proceeded upon the
Treasury letter just issued, which professed a willing-
ness to accept the existing value of the estates in dis-
charge of the loans, it would be tantamount to confis-
cation, because the legislation of the Imperial Parlia-
ment had so depreciated the value of the property since
the loans were made, that in the case of twenty-
three estates in the island of St. Vincent's, the
present value was something like 31,0001. below
what it was when they were mortgaged. He
objected to the Shylock principle which the Govern-
ment had laid down, and hoped, upon a reconsideration
of the case, they would be induced to deal more liberally
with these unfortunate estate-holders. (Hear.)
Mr. WILSON thought the right hon. baronet was
ill-advised in bringing this question forward at this mo-
ment, because his doing so was calculated to raise hopes
in the West Indies which could never be realized. The
case which had excited the advocacy of the right hon.
baronet was nothing more nor less than this :
—A. man, with an estate worth 5,0001., hav-
ing received an advance upon it, was entitled to
say to his creditor, "my estate was once worth 10,0001.,
and therefore you accept a compromise of the 3,0001."
The Exchequer would acceed to no such proposal,
though they were quite ready to deal liberally with these
West India debtors, but they would never consent to
surrender claims for the sake of benefiting speculators
who had purchased the estate in the hope that Govern-
ment wouid be induced to demand the repayment of the
loans. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. H. ELLlCE'characterised the proceedings of the
Government with regard to these poor West Inians as
petty, oppressive, and vexatious, and argued that they
were entitled to some compensation for the consequences
which the Imperial Legislature had brought upon them.
He submitted that the case of these poor people ought
to be made the subject of a Parliamentary enquiry.
Sir G. GREY said the responsibility of this case now
rested with the Exchequer Loan Commissioners, and all
that the Colonial-office could do was to collect informa-
tion in the West Indies justifying exemptions in refe-
rence to particular estates, and submit it to the
Treasury, who, he must say, had evinced a strong dis-
position to meet individual cases of hardship with the
utmost liberality.
Mr. T. RANKEST insisted that the West Indies had
a strong claim to the forbearance and indulgence of the
Treasury.
Mr. V. SCULLY wanted to see this bill so framed
that the owner of an estate should secure the full value
of his land, and not be sacrificed, as was done in the
case of many estates taken into the Encumbered Estates
Court in Ireland, through glutting the market with
estates requiring to be unencumbered.
The bill was then passed through committee.
ROYAL COMMISSION.
Mr. PCLMAN, the Yeoman Usher of the Black Rod,
appeared at the table, and summoned the house to attend
at the bar of the House of Lords to hear the Royal
Assent given by commission to several acts (for which,
see Lords' report).
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL (CANADA) BILL.
This bill passed through committee.
CUSTOMS' BILL.
This bill passed through committee.

PUBLIC HEALTH BILL.
This bill was read a third time and passed.
BANKRUPTCY BILL.

This bill was considered, and ordered to be read a
;laird time to-morrow.
CUSTOMS TARIFF ACTS CONSOLIDATION
BILL.

This bill was read a second time and ordered to be
committed to-morrow.
MA.YO COUNTY ADVANCES BILL.
This bill was read a third time and passed.
LORDS AMENDMENTS.

The Lords amendments to the following bills were
considered and agreed to, viz.:—Parochial School-
masters (Scotland) Bill, Inclosure of Lands Bill, and
the Standard of Gold and Silver Wares Bill.
The Lords amendments to the Friendly Societies
Acts Continuance Bill were not agreed to.
RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT SECURITIES BILL.
This bill was read a third time.
On the question that the bill do pass,
Sir F. KELLY said he dissented from the bill alto-
gether. He considered, as the bill now stood, there was
nothing in it to prevnt any one from subscribing to a
Russian loan. The hon. and learned gentleman moved
to leave out clause 1, and substitute the following :—Be
it enacted, that, during the continuance of hostilities be-
tween her Majesty and Emperor of Russia, any person who
shall wilfully or knowingly subscribe to or for, or purchase
or take in exchange, any loan, stocks, funds, scrip, bonds,
debentures, or securities for money, which, since the
29th day of March, 1854, have or have been, or which,
during the continuance of hostilities as aforesaid, shall
be, negotiated, created, entered into, or secured by or in
the name of the Government of Russia, or any person or
persons on its behalf, shall be guilty of a misdemeanour,
and in Scotland of an offence punishable with fine
and imprisonment : Provided always, that this act
shall not extend to any subscription or purchase
effected or made in any foreign country by any com-
mercial house or firm trading and havirr, a place
of business in any foreign country, and whereas
one or more British subjects, and' one or more aliens,
are partners, or jointly interested. To add proviso to
Clause 1 :—Provided always, that this act shall not ex-
tend to anything done in any foreign country, by any
commercial house or firm trading and having a place of
business in any foreign country, and wherein one or
more British subjects, and one or more aliens are part-
ners, or jointly interested, nor to the taking by any
person of any such stocks, funds, scrip, debentures, or
securities, or any interest therein, in satisfaction of, or as
security or, any debt bona fide and lawfully due to such
person, nor to the taking of any such stocks, funds,
scrip, bends, debentures, or securities, or any interest
therein, as parcel of the estate or effects of any deceased
person, or of any debtor in execution, or of any debtor
having in any country become bankrupt, insolvent, or
whose estate, or any part thereof, shall have become
transferable, or shall be transferred in any way what-
ever for the benefit of bond fide creditors.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said he had endea-
voured on the second reading to give some explanation
of the bill. But he must repeat that the law already
extended to loans made to a country with which we are
at war. With regard to the clause itself, he thought
the effect of it would be to dilute the original proposition
down to a mere milk-and-water measure. He would
not advise the house to interfere at all with the law
of high treason, but leave that law as it was,
and consequently he should oppose the amendment.
Mr. HUME asked whether it would not be better to
drop the bill at present, which, though its intention was
good, would cripple the interests of our own country-
men abroad and at home in commercial transactions, and
would not answer any purpose for which it was intended.
Lord D. STUART said he was not at all convinced
by the arguments he had heard against the bill
that it would not be an efficient bill. The war itself
was against the interests of commerce, and this bill
was essentially a war bill. He maintained that
if Reople were to make money whenever or wherever
they could get it, why then repeal the law of high
treason. It was said the other night that the committee
of the Stock Exchange, with those patriotic feelings
which distinguished them—(laughter)—prevented this
loan from being quoted in the market. What was the
fact ? The committee of the Stock Exchange had done
no such thing, and the hon. member for Lambeth (Mr.
Wilkinson) would tell them that they had not. Then it
was said that the bill was not necessary, because re-
spectable people would not purchase the stock. The
misfortune was, that all people were not respectable and
virtuous, for then they need have no laws at all. (A
laugh.) But they wanted laws against those whose
cupidity was not able to resist the temptations to which
they might be exposed, though adverse to the interest of
their own conntry. He might say of this bill that it was
one of the best abused that ever came under the consi-
deration of the house. It was called puerile, inefficient,
absurd, the whim of an individual with a peculiar idio-
syncrasy—(laughter)—and adopted by the noble lord
because he was the friend of the individual having that
idiosyncrasy—that it was a melancholy abortion ; yet,
notwithstanding all this abuse of the bill, it was sus-
tained on three divisions by majorities of three to one.
Mr. WILKINSON said he had a very great respect
for the noble lord, who was the grandfather of the bill—
(laughter)—but he believed that it was useless. He did
not approve of the alterations proposed by the hon. and
learned gentleman. He objected to the principle of the
measure, and he hoped the credit of the house would not
be damaged by passing such a bill. With regard to the
Stock Exchange, it was not their business to interfere
with international law. What they had done was to
pass a rule for the benefit of their own subscribers. The
rule made by the committee of the Stock Exchange was
that they would not sanction or take cognizance of any
bargains, in loans, bonds, stocks, or other securities,
issued by foreign Governments, that had not paid their
dividends on former loans. He agreed with his hon.
friend that it was impossible to distinguish between
these bonds and the other produce of Russia.
Lord J. RUSSELL said it was useless now to discuss

the principle of the bill. With regard to the disadvantage
to trade and commerce, and the hardship which this bill
would inflict on them, the same argument would apply
in the case of those who lent money directly to Russia,
and who, by the existing law, would be guilty of high
treason. Why not say that, in the latter case, it would
be a cruel and great obstruction to trade The present
bill was, in principle, a matter of the same kind ; but
whether they could attain the object in view by law was
another question. (Hear.) He could not agree in the
amendment proposed by the hon. and learned gentleman
opposite, which went to exempt partners in foreign
countries from the operation of the law. That offered
an obvious mode of evasion from the penalties of the
bill. The foreign partners in a house might think it
advisable to fit out a privateer to the injury of British
commerce, yet the partner here would be liable to the
penalties in that case. Though the bill might not affect
cipTlproviso any great advantage, he believed it was right on prin-
eih:ele(lilaues;r.w)asnegatived without a division.
this act. KELLY then proposed to add the following
tsobaclllaunseet lexitnenthdetbill :--th‘:nPgrodvoindeedinaalwnyays ,
foreignthat
country by any o any
having commercial house or firm trading and
a place of business in foreign country, d
any
wherein one or more British subjects, aad one or more
aliens are partners, or Jointly interested, nor to the i