The Sun.
London, England, 1838-07-10 00:00:00

POST-OFFICr: ABUSES.-BRISTOL.

ceived great benefit fromlhe-state in whieh the laa, had been left. And
it was not fair to call upon-the Clergy to make a large sacrifice, and the
State to make a large sacrifice, and that the landlords were to contd_
bute nothing.—(Hear.) Until he knew the amount ef arrears proposed
to be paid, he (Loud S.) could net tell whether the t',60,000/. was
sufficient or not. Then it was proposal by the Leni nee elember fir
Dublin that the landlords were to be liable to a certain per centage of
arrears due to the tenruts.
Mr. O'CONNELL—Due by themselves, and solvent tenants.
Lord STANLEY was afraid the Learned Gentleman's proposal would
lead to a general declaration of insolvency in Ireland—(Laughter)—if
the isuolvent tenants were to be freed, it would only require such de
claratien. Ile (Lord Stonlet) did not believe it unfair—nor, in.
deed, that it would be objected to by the landlords—that they
should pay the arrears due from themselves.—(Hear, hear, hear )
Ile had hoped the Learned Gentleman's proposal would have been that
the landlords should pay a portion—say 20 per cent. of the arrears due
on their estates to the Clergy, and that, a sacrifice being made by the
Clergy, a conditional grant or aid be made to them by the State, of the
amount now due, and thus the Clergy receiving a limited proportion of
arrears, partly' front landlords, arid partly at the expellee of the
State. Without such arrangements he fearee this Bill would
not produce the tenefits anticipated from it. For it was most
esseatial that from and after the passing of this Act no levy of ar
rears should take place by the clergy upon the occupying tesiaros.—
(Hear, hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said this question
of arrears was most difficult, as well as important. He wished
first to remove the itnpreesion which might easily be produced
by' an observation of the Noble Lord (Stanley), that it was not
fair to adopt a principle giving a reward to those who had pertina, iously
resisted the levyb-g of Tithes. He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer)
felt strongly the inconyenience of recognising such a principle ; but he
I must say that except to the plan for rigidly enforcing every single ar rear
from every individual party, this objection would apply to any
proposition for settling this question of arrears.—(Hear, hear, hear.)
It was proposed that the arrears should be abandoned. Just in propor-
tion as they made that concession it was made to the parties who had
not paid, but there was none to the parties who had paid. He did not
urge this as an objection to the proposition of his Hon. Friend, because
he was anxious to settle the question. His Noble Friend haul come to
a conclusion which rather surprised him—namely, that the suggestion
which had been made involved no sacrifice whatever to the State.—
(Hear, hear.) why, it involved no less a sacrifice than the right
to the recovery of six hundred and forty t housand pounds. That perhaps
Might not be considered a great sect ifice, hut to say that it was no sacri-
' flee was altogether a m'sapprehension. He would now call. the atten-
tion of the House to the principle which was involved in the Bill now
before them. The principle was this—that the occupier of the land
ought to be relieved ; that with respect to the owner of the land the
amount should be collected from him. The reason of this was, there
was a difficulty almost amounting in some cases to an impossibility
of recovering the tithes from the occupier of the land, while the
owner rues a person against whom legal process could be
liereaitcr cirected. Ncw, were there grounds of public expo.
'limey to require any sacrifice of the arrears from the occupier on the
Part of the Clergy? It was impossible to expect a collection going on
as affecting the occupier without danger to the peace and tranquillity of
the country. lie would enquire, first, what was the amount sacrificed ?
Arid, next, what compensation was proposed to be given? If the
amount of sacrifice was not great—if the compensation given were eon-
cderable, then, weighing the case, they ought to calcu'ate the clear and
substantial benefit to be done between all the parties. He knew
that from the owner of the land the clergy could and ought to re-
cover the fall amount ; but, with respect ta the occupit r; esperience
showed that it was not practicable to recover any considerable amount
Ile would propose the remission of the 640,0001., if the clergy would
give up their claim to any arrears now due by the occupier of the soil.
He would qualify his admission in this way, that under the Million Act
the owner of the first inheritance should be still liable to the quinquenial
payments which that Act directed, but that the occupier should be left
entirely alone.
Sir R. PEEL--Much of the discussion which had arisen related to
tire Irish clergy, and might be divided into two heads. First
the arrears which were covered by the advance of 640,000/. and
next the arrears which had accrued since that Act was passed.
Singular as it might appear, he hoped that he would have been able to
vote for a motion of the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin respect-
iug the Tithe 13i11—(A laugh)—beeause he thought it was to be for the
total remission of the 640,000/ which had been advanced. Ile agreed
with the Honourable and Learned Member in the opinion that that
remission should take place ; it was impossible to exact it from the
clergy, and he, as an Englishman, for the sake of the peace of
Ireland, was willing to sacrifice the whole of the money.—(Hear.)
He did not contend for any favour to the clergy, but merely contended
for the peace and tranquillity of Ireland, and whenever the motion of
the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin came on, which he had
been only precluded on a point of form from making, he
should vote for the absolute remission of the 640,000/.
Then they came to the arrears not covered by the advance; and the pro_
position of the Right Hon. Gentleman was, that in waiving the claim for
640,0001. the Clergy should abandon all claim on the occupying tenant,
not only for the arrears covered by the 640,000/. but for all the arrears
which had accrued since, and were payable by the occupying tenant.
That proposition was a manifestly unjust one, and one that he would
never consent to —(Cheers.) What pretence was there for making
the proposal, that the whole burthen should be thrown on the Irish
clergy f--e(Cries of " Hear, hear.") He would not join hr the censures
that had been passed on the Government, fur their attempt by the pre.
sent Bill to settle the differences in Ireland, although by pursuing a
different course they had turned him out of office. Looking at all tire
difficulties that surrounded this question, he believed those who were
really conscientious and sincete took the best course far the interests of
all parties, if they attempted a settlement of it in the way that had been
proposed by the Noble Lord. The Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. S. Rice)
had certainly an ingenious way of conciliating the Irish clergy. There
was some reason to say, " State necessity compels us to pass a measure,
which will so invalidate your claims that you will not have a chance
of recovering them, so that we will find yon a substitute;" but to
sty, `• We give a direct encouragement to- your debtors not to
pay you, and you intik not csimplam, if we ask you to remit your
clahns"—was a monstrous principle. Burt then it was said the clergy
should remit their arrears, because it would be better security for the
payment of their rent charge s. Why, what had the clergy given tip
the 25 per cent. for ?—(Hear)—and he (Sir It peel) owned he had no
fears far the security of the claims when such language was used ; and
he would put it to the Honourable Gentlemen opposite (Mr.
O'Connell and Mr. Strict) who had so long resisted the
payment of tithes, whether the effect of the example of such influential
pr r sons would not tell isi Ireland, and whether it would be entirely coun-
teracted by the tartly offer of payment, especially when one of the gen-
tlemen (Mr. Shed) had recently been raised to a civil olfice by the Go
vernment.—(Hear.) The Learned Member for Dublin had talked of a
miserable question of pounds, she:lugs end pence, between 30 and 23
per cent No :Mr it was a question of principle.—( Hear, heats)
He (Sir it. Peel) would agree t 6 the reduction of 25 per cent., as a fair
compensation to the landlords, but he thought 30 per cent. too much—lie
believed the landlord had no right to the additional 5 per cent , and
con sidered it would belagreeing to the principle of agpropriation, and
the worst application of that principle, appropriation to the secular
purposes of landlords.—(lronical cries of " Hear, hear," fro et the Mi-
nisterial benches.) He begged to state, that though on the part of the
Irish clergy he was ready now to consent to the reduction of 25 per
cent., he would not bind himself to consent to such a reduction, at any
future period, if this Bill did not pass—(" Hear," from Ministerial side)
—this he must contend, troth for the 'sake of the peace of Ireland and
justice to the clergy, if they resolved to make any arrangement for the
remission of the arrears now due, independent of the 640,0001, it was
the public who were at the chief expense. His Noble Friend suggested
the justice of throwing on the landlord part of the payment due for tire
a, e rs. He (Sir R. Peel) would not be deterred by any threats of agi.
tetion—(Cheers)—but so ferns they were the persons on whom the bur-
den was thrown, he would not remit them a shilling. When they had
refused to pay the clergy, he would say they might threaten him with
gitation, but he would bring them all before the Court of Exchequer.—
tCheers.) He was perfectly convinced that such was the inconvenience
of encouraging agitation for the purpose of resisting a legal demand, that
not much trouble would be given if it should be steadily enforced,
Nothing would be so fetal as such a remission. He decidedly subjected
to making the Clersy solely responsible for these arrears, and would
now leave the hints which he had thrown out for the consideration of
the House.
Mr. MEM said the Right Hon. Gentleman had adverted to him in a
rather pointed manner. Ili:, however, would not be provoked in con_
sequence of the tone of the Hon. Gent leroani, to do more then suggest
to himself that perhaps there were some appointtnents made when he
was in power as distinguished for the vehemence of their partisanship at
least as lie was ; but he would not, by pursuing this subject, in the
slightest degree interfere with that lib. rat spirit which appeared to per_
vale the present discussion. It appeared to hint to be agreed that the
sum advanced tut the Clergy should be remitted to the Clergy. 'I be next
point for consideration was whether the surplus of the million which
was originally granted with the view of ed'ecting the pacification of
Ireland, should be applied to the purpose for which it was ietentled.
In 1535 the Conservative Government intended that the surplus or the
million should be applied to the remission of the arrears which had sub-
sequently accrued. 'Thal plan was agreed tin by both Whigs and Tories,
and he could see no geod reason fur departing from that course. Every
one must agree that it would be very desirable that all the arrears
should be remitted, but he very much doubted whether it would be pea.
side to induce English gentlemen to vote more money for such a purpose.
A Noble Lord wino belonged to the Conservative ranks, Lord Roden,
said that an old. Irish ge tlenian, with 5,000/. a-year, had not 7001. to
spend, and that he would be crushed by the operation of tie Poor-law.
Would he not be equally crushed try being obliged to pay tithes which
he could not obtain from his tenant e Ile held tOrit winsi a p roprietor
let his land at 405., and Os. of it belonged to the clergyman
when lie obtained the forty shillings, he was bound to pay
the three shillings to the clergyman ; but that was not the case, for
the tenant willlogly paid the rent, but he absolutely rt fused to pay the
tithe. But the landlord wino in point ut law was liable—who de jure
was liable, but who do facts had not received a fa' thing—he was intitled
to the indulgence of that House.—(flear, hear.) Let them remember
the stale of the South of Ireland; let them recollect the meetings that
had taken placp.—(Cries of " Hear" from the Opposition side of the
House ) He thought lie had made out a cease fur the landlords of
Ireland, which that House ought to take into account. He was
throwing over-boat d those who bud got their tithes—he was throwing
aside Mos., who had got posfiCS3loil of the Lind, but he thought the
House ought to take into account those landlords who were liable for
tithes, and who had not reteivedone fat thieg of them. It might be said,
let those landlords sue their tenants, and compel them to pay.
But he would ask, would not the landlords find it hard to recover those
tithes which the State found it so impracticable to obtain with the aid
of I heoolice, the military, and all the machinery which the Government
could bring to bear upon the recusants ? Hai not the Government
said that they found it a'most impossible to recover the arrears of the
Million Eund ; and if they could not, how could tine landlords recover
them, sutrounded as they were by an excited and a hostile peasantry ? It
so strong a phrase—it was a mis.
was untrue—he beep:diet-futon for using
take to say that he (Mr. Shiel) had not paid his tithes. Ile had paid
a large portion on tine simple application of the Clergyman to him, and
he hail in his possession a letter from a Clergyman in which Inc eeknow.
lodged his (Mr. Shill's) haring discharged the amount claimed by him.
He. teas, iu fact, willing to pay every farthin or 'tithes incurred by
himself, but he objected to be made responsible for those of his tenants
who refused to pay him.—(l/ear, hear.) But enough about himself'..
enough of individual cases. What Ire wished to impress upon the House
was this—if they were to have the balance of the million applied to the
extinction of the arrears, let them not *confine it to the occupying
tenant, but grant a portion of it to the landlords, who were in the pie
dicament to which he had allueltd.—(Cheers )
Mr. HUME said Ireland and England were in that state that
parties were desirous that an end should be put to agitation. Ho would
remind Honourable Members opposite of what was stated a feW
days ago by the Honourable and Lease ad Member for Dub-
lin, that nothing would pet down agitation tait a difl'eretlt
appropriation of the revenues of the established Church.—(Cries of ph:)
N% hen the Right Honourable Baronet opposite came into odious, he had
proposed to remit the 640,0004 due by the lamb:milers of Ireland.
Agate, when the present Aministrotion brought in a Bill, he (Mt.
Hume) had agreed to sacrifee milker., in order to give peace to
Ireland.—(Hear,) That Bill proposed to abolish every sineetiiie,
Heidi( in Is olood, and to reduce the incomes of the remainder tog proper
standard. in order to satisfy the people of that ceunt4. What was the
fate of that Bill ? It went into another Bess;, and he ( Mr. Hums)
believed that the Lord Primete est* );eland was the first man to raise
Isis voibe to Tose, aad eventually to throw out the Bill.—(Hear.)
iii' idtjecied to the people of England paying one shilling toward*, the,
eepport of the Irish Church. The peace of Ireland ccitild sioS be
secure—it ought not to bt secure—while she was conrellieci to keep lip
a sinecure church. If the Right Hon
o.u3gbAe creigtleman opposite who
desirous of establishing peset inn Wand be ought long ago to have
agreed to the api TJPri*iott et' the Surplus revenue of the Church to the
itTol-putip cg education and religion. The Church in Ireland was roMO
L
(Lsrr SPEAKING.)

Wife hog, to eali the attention of the proper authorities
rs well as t hat of the public, to the following statement
our correspondent at Bristol. in reldrelice to the delay
caused by. the Post-office there, in the delivery of our
pipers, In ought by the Great Western. As we under-
stued sonic of our Coternporaries (who, as well as nurselves,
live taken great pains to procure at the earliest moment
news, at this time, of the uttno-t importance to the
piiiib) have been inconvenienced in the same manner, we
hope sufficient puLlicity will be given to the mutter, to
enure on another occasion at least a civil answer to a civil
inquiry, eithout subjecting respectable citizens to the in-
soienco of having the, door locked in their faces by "official"
un,lerlings. Our correspondent writes as follows :
As soon ac I leeirrit that your papers were sent to the Pest-
°flick., I went to make inquiry as to whether I could receive
tn•um ev: fling,' or if they would be forwarded t 6 you,
hnowirg tiers gas plenty of time for either, the papers haviro.r
b+-en pot into the game's of cost. office people by half-past 5 o'clock'.
I h. d but just uttered the words---" Are there any papers for
The Sun nesyspaper to my care ?" and the sorter immediately
said Here they are," holding them up in his hand--when
a vc,ung matt popped his head from behind, and ordered the•
min, in the most peremptory manner, to "lock the door," and
nr.lered me round to the front window to make my inquit lea
in " official manner." I accordingly went to the nindow,
though I *a ;,s very well aware that the side door was the proper
place to inquire for the Post-master. The answer there was
th-t no pap rs Would be delivered that night, nor any sent on
lw the mail, though it did not leave till seven o'clock. In
order, however, that there should be no excuse, I again ap. ;
plied at the window, and represented the importance of tba
papers going off that night, is hen the person at the witn;oiv
(who conducted himself with a civility strikingly in contrast
with that of his young " superior") said he had inquired of
tie Post-master, and his deterrnimtion was that nothing should
ba delivered. Now, as these papers were directed to my care,
in Bristol, and they were in the post by half-past five, I believe
that even according to the strict regulations of the Past.
office, I was fully entitled to have them delivered the same
evening ; but through, to say the least of it, the marked in-
civility of this young man, they are detained till the following
morning, when they are not worth a sous, I having been
obliged to antin others in the best manner I could. Surely
the public have a right to expect that this Establishment sup_
pored, um/tinnily for the public convenience, shall not throw
every obstacle it can in their way, and play the part of the
dog in the manger—neither forward their papers and cor-
respondence itself, nor suffer them to do it ; but this is the
pm. the servants of the Bristol Post-office have played on
this occasion ; but why should I say this occasion, they are or
almost daily occurrence, not only with me, but it is general.
I have made, in my business, repeated complaints to Colonel
Nlaberly, but I can get no redress, and have, therefore,
discontinued my complaints, and • shall he obliged, to
discontinue one branch of my business, namely, the
sanding of newspapers by post. I
_do not wish to
exaggerate, nor " to set ought down in malice," and
if I could put myself in correspondence with My
Lord Lowther, or with Mr. Wallace, the Member for Gree-
nock, who hiss paid so much attention to Post-office abuses, I
could furnish them with as strong an individual case as their
experience can supply I enclose you a letter. I received. a
few days since from the Office here. The Paper there re-
ferred to I put into the office myself it bas never reached its
destination, nor has it been returned, though a printed enve-
lope was on it. But I have further confirmation " strong as
proof of holy writ" in two paragraphs from the Bristol Mirror
of this very week as follows :
" NON-DELIVERY OF NEWSPAPERS.— We are every week
reminded by some of our subscribers of the non-arrival of
their Papers. We can only state that the Mirror Newspa-
pers are regularly put into the Post-office here every Satur-
day morning ; and if they do not arrive the fault lies entirely
at the Post-office in. Bristol, or at the Country Office where
they are directed. 4 subscriber at Milverton has been fre-
quently C.isappointed‘ and, should it occur again, his complaint
shall be forwarded to the Secretary of the General Post-office,
with other instances i‘f similar neglect.
"POt,T.OFFICE.—In donsequence,of the non-delivery of letters
from the Kingswood Hill Post Office, her Majesty's Post Mas-
ter General, has through the interference of Mr. Okey, solidi-
' ter of this city, directed the receiver of letters there, to deliver
all letters'withL one mile around his office."
I trust you will insert this in to-morrow's Sun, accumpani,A with such remarks as the subject suggests, as it is a matter in
which the public are eceply interested. Were it merely art indi-
vidual wrong, I;vrould;not,ask you to devote your time oe !pacts in your paper to it. ..

CORONER'S IN QUEST.

APPALLING ACCIDENT ON THE LONDON AND 131RmTNGFIAlt
RAlLWAY._Yesterday morning, at eleven o'clock, a most re-
spectable Jury was impannelled before William Oshaldiston,
Esq., the Hertfordshire coroner, at the Railway Arms inn.
Watford, to investigate the circumstances attending the death
of guard in the employ of the Lon-
aottlrandDaßiridmilct. principaln)ghamilailway Company, wnich was occasioned
durinc, the progress of the four o'clock train, on its route to
London on Saturday afternoon last, under very lamentable
circumstances.
The Jury having been sworn, proceeded to view the body,
which lay in some premises attreshed to the Watford station,
nod which presented a most s!readfully-mutilated appearance.
On their return the foIlow;mg evidence was adduced.
James Spencer, one of the guards in the employ of the com-
pany, was first examireed, and he stated that he knew the de-
ceased, who was also in the employ of the London and Bir-
mingham Railway Company. On Saturday last deceaLed was
engaged in:,,operintending the arrangement of the luggage•on
!ill2 four o'clock train, from Birmingham to London, on which
witness was also stat:oned on duty. The deceased, during the
route was excessively active in running about on the top of •
the carriages, which were 18 in number, for the purpose of see-
ing that. all was correct, and frequently eonversod with witness
in the most cheerful manner in the course of their progress. On the arrival of the train between Boxmoor and Watford
witness was stationed on the carriage next to the engine, when
on a sudden he heard a cry front behind him of " Held on, •
hold on." Suspecting some accident had taken place, he called
out to the engineer, at the top of his voice, " to stop the
engine," which was done as soon as possible. Owing, how-
ever, to the velocity at which the train was proceeding it was
some time before it was stationary. During this interim
jwitness missed deceased from his customary station during the •
ourney. On witness being infer-net' that something serious
had happened, he caused the engine to be backed about 100
yards, and then proceeded, iu company with the mail guard
employed to convey the Govornmeot despatches to and from
Birmingham, about 200 yards further, where they discovered
the body of the unfortunate deceased in a most appalling and
mangled' condition. The upper part of his skull was corn-
pletely taken of.; and found hanging back on his neck, his left
arm broken and torn from its socket, with other frightful
wounds laying open the side of the chest. Ile was lying on
his ty,ek, presenting in the whole a most theadful spectacle.
lie was not quite dead when first seen by witoess, but after
having sighed twice, expired. lie was placed in ono of this
hors, carriages en some straw, and conveyed to the 'Watford
station.
By a Juror—The accident occurred at Two Waters, where
there arc six bridges. The deceased was on the: top of the
luggage ca.riage, when it passed the first bridge, but so near
was he to the top of the arch that his hat was then taken off,
although he lay down. Did not see the ;ter ident.
By the Coroner—Deceased was perkcily sober at the time,
and during the journey,. One of the ;nail guards seeing him
on the top of the luggage warned him against it, Lying-
he would do that once too often, and deceased, laughing, re-
" there will only by one tl'e Icss."
By the Jury—The height of the bridges is 17 feet and a
halt, and the height of the luggage car, iages whet, loaded 16
feet, thus leaving only the space of 18 inches Letwet n the
luggage and roof of the arch.
By the Coroner—Did not consider that blame was attached ,SS
to any of the serviuts of the Company, but that the occurrence
had been the result of deceased's own temerity.
By the Jury—ls of opinion that he tvir, kno .kepi off Ow
csrriage by coming in conteet with the second arch, and pre-
cipitated between it nod the mail truck, which wets attached.
Mr. For, priocip.d engineer, st,ted that II:, could give no
further evidence titan that which hart bee. addoced ; but his
believed the aecident was mainly atuibutable to the temerity
of the deceased, who was one of the most efficient and
active servants of the Company, 'out by far tun reckless of his
own person.
O. her evidence, cotrukrative of the ebove, having they given, the Coroner addressed the Jury, as to- whether they -I
considered there was blame wtributahle to any one, and they
having replied in the negative, returned a verdict cf " Acci-
dent ii Death."
The body of the unfortunate man was brought to town in the afternoon t.-ain, nd consN:yed to the house of his relatives.
lie has left
i a widow, ehose
cordition, through her dreadful
beent sst ated to be one bordering on madness.

_ _
__;,,,,,61,1,..•••••=1.1=1.....nm...................1••••••••......,
...•41,...... —'PATENT LEVER WATCH 43, s lit
Four and a Half Cuineas each.
A variety of Second-hand Watches, on ',lids celebrated 'eonsfroc-/
tion, with going; fuzee, to cont ante going white wind. ~, -up, jovvelititl
in four holes, hand to mark the seconds, h enamel dial i.,,,,
other modern improvements, are otier.ed,At. the above. price, war-
ranted, at COX SAVORY'S, JewellPtc Silverswith, and Watch
maker, 47, Cornhill, London (Seve-ii,,Loors from Gracechurch.
street).

B11:711S.
On the Bth inst., in Great Cumberland-place, the Lady Jane
Ogilvy, of a daughter.
On the 6th inst., at Bruee.g.ove, Tottenham, Mrs. M. H.
Shuttleworth, of a son.

1 •----7-. -
___._.._
zdA it I? I N 11. On the 3d inst., Joha Graha, Esq., 55th Bengal Native :in-
fantry, to Franees Mervin, only daughter of Z. H. Drake, Esq., of
Springfieid, Devon,
John
On
Harri/,,h the Gt inst., at the Independent Chapel, Epsom, the Itor-
of that Waco,
io Mary Ana, only daughter of W. Wranghata, Esti ,

DIED. ,
On the 6th inst., at Alhany.crescent, Susannah, dauglAter Of Mr-
Crater, anctioneer, Blaekfriars-road.
0,1 tan 6th inst., at Alilton-court, near Dorking, re!red 47, R°
bert Augustus Cottle, Esq
lll:ddlese, ~ late of Furnival's Inn, rAi-ti Hampton,
T,
C4l
rteDenmark-hill,he 7th inst., at Denark-hill, aged 26, C'',,r,rles, fourth son
Yi Esq.
On the 7th inst., in BaTo.pond-road, Mr. .7.asci,h Daniel, late °I
Newgate-street,

inled arid Published by, 1,111111)0 'YOUNG. of No.
‘l4a ~rand, at T N
he Sun Office, o. 11.4, Stt and, in the cout.ll
\liddlesex._Tuesday, July 10,. 1838.

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