The Sun.
London, England, 1838-06-30 00:00:00

—(" No, no," from the Opposition ; '° Hear, hear," from the
Ministerial lsenclics.) 'lbis was caumniating the people of
England.—( lb ar, hear.) The Noble Lord ( Stanley) was
fond of the rerormation. It was only since the reformation this
charge had Leen 1 rought against the people. There were
52,000 churebe; in England at the reformation, ai.d 44,000
chapels of case, rntking, a total of 96,000 places of worship.
One t bird of the present amount of population
Eisg,lsw I had not at that time, and there were no tumults
then. Tit. re were now. abut 20,000 dissenting places of
:vorship and 11,807 churches of the Estabishment ; and to
tell him that the people of England could not behave them-,
selves in t' eir churches struck him as something prepostsrrous.
However that might be there was no case respectlng Ireland,
and he should therefore move for the exclusion of Ireland.
Dr. NICHOLL said he was surprised at what had fallen.
from the Noble Lord opposite (Russell). The Bill had been:"
introduced in the House of Lords, and passed through
that House with universal acclamation, and without
one dissentient voice--not a single Member of the Go-
vernment has offered the slightest opposition to it.
Three petitions had been presented to the House with resivot
:o the Bill, me from the parish of St. Leonard, Sliored.tels
agait st the Bill, and perhaps the House would hardly crcd't
him when he stib d it, that that parish claimed the right or'',
having the use of the Church at all times for party squabbles _
and political animosities. Another petition was from an in-
dividual ...
which he believed had never been laid on the table
of the House, and the tlllled petition was from St. Mary,
lilington in favour of the Bill, and praying the introduc-
tion of those very clauses that were now objected to.
It had Leen said that.thcre was no case made out for the 13ill ;
but in answer to thatihe would refer Hon. Gentlemen to the
cases which had ocetred .e.t Portsmouth, Southwark, and at
St. Leotard's, Shcolditeh. Ile did not rroposc that the Bill
should take effi_of till December, 1839, and there-
fore there would be ample time for parties to prepare other ..,
places for such meetings if they thought proper; they could be
held in the Mechanics' Institute or Town-hal!, or any building .
in the perish. As to Ireland, when the Hon. Member for
Dublin in Committee stated his objection to Ireland being in-
eluded,
he should be ready to meet him ; and if the lion.
Member satisfied him Ireland ovoht not he included, he would
throw no obstacle to the Bill being amended for that purpose..
Mr. BRISCOE, who spoke amidst much noise, and crie I
of " Divide, divide," said that as the House was anxious for
a division, he would only make one or two remarks. As an in.:
dividual Member of Parliament be could not agree to this
13 11. But he thought that a general Act to enable parishes to
er.et buildings for the accommodation of their Vestries was
des)-ahle. Ile, therefore, was not indisposed (as we un- .
f'e s' oI) to go into Committee, in order that the ob- .
41
jeeth na le and compulsory parts might be amended, and a !
provision made for doing away with the inconveniences of the
present pract,ce.
S'r R. PEEL said the Hon, Gentleman (Mr. Briscoe) had_ - -
taken a very fair view of the question. There was a strong
desire through the country to prevent edifices, intended for re-
ligicus purposes, from being used for political discussions. ~
He ( Sir R. Peel) might feel a strong objection to political '.;
vrrangling in a Roman Catholic or Dissenting chapel.— :
(Hear.) If that were the object, why not go into Committee
on the Bill—when all the objections to its various provisions
mi,sht be d a eissed? The de'-ates in that House the last fort-
right
have shewn that Honorable Gentlemen, who being -
selected by the people of England as their representatives,
were of course models of quiet and orderly demeanour.—
( [Aught no ) '1 hat even they when excited by political contests
were betrayed into scenes which, though perhaps quite par.
1 im n ary, would not altogetlor be considered as fitting for a ..
religious edife s—(llear and laughter.) Then as to this AI
Bill beiag an inncva:ion—why, in 1831, a Bill was intro-
duced by the bight Hon. Baronet the Member for Notting-
ham
( Sir J. H' bhouse), and was pawed, distinctly sanction-
i .'
g the principle of this Bill.—( No, from Ministerial benches.) . .
It must be by an act of the vestry if new vestries were built ;
44
but in ninety-nine cases out of one hundred a room for the
tempotary purpose would be found. There was not a parish -,
in England which could not find a room for a dinner.— :
( Hear,lear. ) They would not hold it in a Church.—( A laugh.)
They would find a room and pay 41. or 5/. for it, and that would
he the case with vestries. Now fir the dangerous principle.
If it was a dangerous principle, who introduced it? The Act
which held in his hand was entitled " An Act to provide for
the better regulation of Vestries, and the appointment of Au-
ditors of Accounts in certain counties in England and Wales," -
and by this it was enacted, that when the vestry-room of a .:.
pa; ish was not sufficiently large for a vestry meeting, it should
be held elsewhere ; but not in the church or chapel thereof.—
( Torycheers. ) This Bill was brought in by the Hon. Baronet
the Member for Nottingham to prevent churches being de-
secrated
by discussions in reference to secular purposes. The
question now was, not whether they would alter the Bill,
but would they refuse to go into Committe ?—(Hear.)
Mr. AGLION 13 Y wished to put the House in a right
position, as the observations of the Right Hon. Baronet
opposite (Sir R. Peel) were calculated to place it in a
Al
wrong position. Tho Hon. Baronet had put it as if those who
differed from the provision: of the Bill were reckless about
brawling in the Church. H s (Mr. A.) would to the utmost , 4
of his power prevent that course of proceeding, but up to this
momelit they had, what had been established for hundreds of _
years, the right to hold meetings for parochial business
either in a vestry. room or the church adjoining. He
objected to the Biil because it was an innovation, accom- 1
panied with injustice, and upon that principle he should
divide. His objection was not to the continuance of meets
lugs in the church, but the taxing of the people in order tti - - -
014
prevent it. I
Mr. Sorf,Tennt JACKSON thought that Ireland ought to
be included in the provisions of the Bill, notwithstanding
what had been said by the lion. and Learned Member for
_...4
Dub i 1.

I'dr EVANS opposed the 13:11, amidst loud cries of
" Divide, divide."
Mr. I'. DUNCOMBE said he believed the public feeling
was very much in favour of the Bill, and therefore he would
support it.
Mr. il. PHILIPS thought that the Dissenters, if
they were to he taxed for new buildings for the
purposes of the Church, ought to be relieved from any
payment for the supi,ort of the failure.—(Loud cries of
" b:vide, divide.")

Lord JOHN RUSSELL said as his amendments might bo
made in Committee, he would not oppose the motion of the
Hon. And Learned Member.

T. L. HODGES opposed the Bill amidst the most
indecent interruptions from the Opposition side of the House_
Yr. ltfi. WES attempted to explain, but was met with the
same interruptions, and was obliged to sit down.
Dr. NICHOLS would consent to the alterations, so as to
limit the rates, but he would not consent to any alteration in
the clauze prohibited the holding of vestries in the Church.
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the House
divieed. when t.' ere appeared—
For going into Committee l4l
Against it... 7O
Mjority . —7l
The House then went into Committee.
On clause I being proposed,
Mr. O'C ON N El, L moved as an amendment, the insertion
of words for the purJose of limiting the operation of the
clause to England end Wales.
Mr. BERNAL enquired how the Fl'Jnourable and Learned
Gentleman in .nded to act in the else of Musical Festivals,
vibich were generally held in the parish Church.
Mr. INGHAM said that he should propose an amendment
to the effect that meetings for religions purposes, and for pro.
rooting the educatioo of the poor might be held in Churches.
Mr. AGLIONBY said that he had an amendment which
should precede that of the Hun. Member. The Clause
as it s'ood would Freve•it the meeting in churches st a specified
date, whether other edifices were erectel or not by that time.
He should propose, therefore, that the clause should be male
permissive, and tha'. the meetings be allowed in the chur.hes
in al pari.hes. until proper buildings could be erected.
Mr. HODGES, who was near), inaudible, supported (we
believe) the amendment.
Dr. NICHOL sal I he could not agree to the amendment.
Dr. LUSHINGTON rose, and was
(LEFT FrEAKTNG. )
(\Ve shall give the Conchsion in a Second Edition.)

SIIOOTFR'S Eli Lt. WOOD.—On Thursday night,
abcte. Falf.past ten, a furz, field consisting of about thirty acres, adjoin-
ing S,rewsbury nous; was discovered to be on fire. The engines of
the :loyal Artillery, Sappers and Mincrs, and Marines were promptly
is r quisiion to render assistance After the mast persevering and fear.
less exertions they sure tiled in eff.ctualiy subduing it in about two hours.

There are, perhaps, few towns in the West of Eng-
land wir:re the exist,nce of party zeal has torn into sections and des-
troyed a tinanimons feeling of I iyaPy to the Queen, more than it hes
in Truro, the princip.l town in Cornwall This is Mllell to be regretted,
Litt the Queen's men —the Liberals—have dons every thing they possibly
could to e:,rect a conitnietiini between themselves and those who, while
they hav, no obj, c ion to drink the toast of " the Queen," wish to show
a d sreepect for her Msjesty's Ministers, and decline to sit with those
Reformers who desire to show a regard f r " the powers that be."

The case of Mr.- Ex-Sheriff Salo eons was dis-
cussed yesterday by tile Court of Aldermen, when, after hearing a
statiment from that gentleman, it was determined that their decisions
upon it shoiil3 he iiuspended until the j‘idgment of " the Court above"
was obtained.

EXTRAORDINARY CASE OF ABDUCTION.-
The family of Lady , residing in the neighbourhood of , near
Bristol, has been plunged into the deepest affliction by the conduct of
a young g,ntleman who occupied a confidential situatim In the fa-
mily. It appea-s that during the temporary absence of Lady
Gtr the purpose of visiting a dying relative, Mr. - persuaste 1
the youngest dauveliter of her ladyship from her home under 1.4
pretest that her presence was required at the bedside cf her au it
hut, instead of taking her to that destination, he succeeded i J
persuading her to allow the ceremony of a Gretna-green truret4/
to he peri.eirated, against her own wishes and remonstrances. I'l4
young lady Is unfortunately of weak intellect, and her father, inths. I.
lief that she would require additional comforts to those of hod.wl! t •
sisters, left her a larger share of his fortune than ha otherwise w
Mare done. It is expected, however, that some proceedings with !t
once token to deprive him of any claim to the property, as well as
dissolve the marriage. At one stage the unhappy girl is said to ha rr
flung herself on her knees before a country innkeeper, who, however
was so astonished at the procedure, that his .surprise and amazement
totally prevented Lira tiorn understanding the cause of her raving, and
he imagined she was undzr the inflm_nee of insanity.--2:crkshire Chron.

Ou Tiittri;dzi% forenoon, about ball past 12 o'clock,
so alarming fire, at till !oil with serious collet:quern-Ts, broke out on the
prerai•,e•• of Mr. Nloss, I.7.,oking_glass manufacturer, Leman-street, Good.
inai.'s-fiehls, opposite the Garrick Theatre. It originated in the work-
shops situated at the back of the premises in the street j•ot 'mentioned,
and from the confined spot it was the geleral opinlon of the inhabitants
in the neighbourhood that several dwellings would be consumed. En.
glues horn WeJclose.square and Jeffery square fortunately were so m
on the spot, and a plentiful supply of water obtairel, they were imme.
diale'y got to work. The flames, after raging an hour, were at length
extinguished, but not before the whole of the work-styps were entirely
consumed. 1 loss is estimated at about '2(01, which will fall on the
insurance in Inc Imperial Fire-Office.