The Sun.
London, England, 1853-08-17 00:00:00

guilty of conduct insolently domineering and inconsistent
with good faith towards Europe generally. And Turkey,
after having been urged to resist, was now advised not to
consider the invasion of her territory as a casus belli, but
to accede to all the demands of Russia. He thought that
the English Government were especially to blame for this,
for, notwithstanding they were not allowed to see the
papers, he believed that France was inclined to take far
more energetic steps, if Lord Aberdeen's Administration
had not prevailed upon her to recede from what she thought
right and adopt the more pusillanimous course which they
recommended. Notwithstanding that peace might be se-
cured on this occasion, he believed, that in consequence of
the policy which had now been adopted, posterity would
be engaged in wars of a far more terrible character than
any which could now have arisen, and that they would
then have a right to blame the present Government, whose
false steps on this occasion had been attended with such
disastrous consequences. (Hear.) It was, no doubt, the
interest of the country to preserve peace ; but there were,
nevertheless, occasions when nations were called upon to
sacrifice their present interests in obedience to the require-
ments of good faith, and in accordance with an enlightened
view of what would be to their ultimate advantage. Nor
must it be forgotten that although peace was desirable to
this country, there was no nation that had less occasion to
dread war. No other country in Europe but this enjoyed
the blessings of liberty, and no other ruler in Europe but
the Queen of these realms was seated on his Throne with
sufficient firmness to be certain that war would not over-
throw his power. But he believed that the independence
of Turkey might have been secured without any war at all.
Had the Government of this country been animated by
ordinary spirit, and had they earlier sent the fleet to Besika
Bay, he believed that the Autocrat of Russia would never
have sent Prince Menschikoff to Constantinople, or would
have been contented with those concessions with respect to
the Holy Places which had been willingly agreed to by
France. And if at a later date the Czar had been told
that his crossing the Pruth would be the signal for our
fleets to enter the Dardanelles, he (Lord D. Stuart) be-
lieved that not a single Russian would ever have crossed
that river. (Hear.) There were two ways of maintaining
peace ; one was by obtaining for those whom we protected
everything that was their right—the other was by submit-
ting to every insult, by receiving complacently every
kick, by breaking faith with our allies, and by placing
ourselves in a degrading position, where no one would
respect us. While sensible• of the services of a Min-
ister who maintained peace by the first course, he
could not honour one whose policy was based upon the
latter principle, and he believed that if we had now a Mi-
nister who was " not the Minister of Austria or Russia,
but the Minister of England," none of these deplorable
events would have occurred, which had endangered, and
still, in fact, did endanger, the peace and tranquillity of
the world. Indeed, some of the worst evils of war had
been already encountered by the inhabitants of the unfor-
tunate principalities, who had suffered from the occupation
of the Russian army, with all the attendant peculation,
extortion, and tyranny which it entailed. When Russia
occupied these principalities in 1849, for the purpose of
suppressing their liberal institutions, and of crushing the
Hungarian struggle for liberty, he (Lord D. Stuart) told
the house that it' such a course were not opposed by Eng-
land, it would be repeated again and again. The result
proved the correctness of his predictions. The principalities

were now again occupied, in order to compel Turkey to
grant undue concessions. This country had been humiliated
and degraded in the eyes of the world, by having publicly
given assurances to Turkey which we had not the spirit or
courage to fulfil. We had suffered the power of Russia to
prevail, and we had no longer a right to expect that any
salutary advice of ours would in future influence the Turk-
ish Government. That power had advanced in civilisa-
tion during the last thirty years more than perhaps any
other European nation. Our commerce with Turkey was
now larger than that with Russia. Our exports, which
twenty years ago were only half a million, had since in-
creased sixfold, while those to Russia had only doubled.
There could be no question that if the provinces at pre-
sent subject to Turkey passed under the Russian sway,
the present liberal tariff would be abrogated, and this in-
creasing commerce would be checked. He knew that some
honourable members were unfavourable to Turkey be-
cause it was not a Christian power ; but it should be recol-
lected that in matters of religion, Turkey was one of the
most tolerant countries in the world. In Russia, on the
other hand, no religion except that of the Greek Church
was safe from persecution. Whole provinces had been
converted at the point of the bayonet from the Roman
Catholic religion, and the Protestant inhabitants of the
province of Esthonia had been subjected to continual per-
secution. He did not say that the Government of the
Sultan was perfect, but he did say that the friends of hu-
manity, and even of Christianity, must prefer the mainte-
nance of the Sultan's rule to the substitution of the Czar's
in its place, and that they must join the noble lord in the
wishes which he professed so eloquently, but carried out
so feebly, that an effectual resistance might be offered to
the encroachments of Russia on Turkey. (Hear, hear.)
The noble lord concluded by reminding the Government
that although they had succeeded in postponing the discus-
sion on this question during the present, it was inevitable
in a future session of Parliament.

Mr. M. MILNES thought that his noble friend was
rather hard upon her Majesty's Government in making so
many rapid discussions, and assuming that they had done
something of which they were ashamed, because they had
not laid the papers upon the table of the house. The pre-
cedents were rather on their side than on the other, and
they knew it was the habit of this country to let the
Foreign Minister do anything he liked, or to get into as
many scrapes as he chose, always trusting to the ability
with which he would get out of them. (Hear, hear.) This
was one of the peculiar questions on which the display of
a little more confidence in the House of Commons would
have strengthened the hands of the Government. He
thought her Majesty's Government had acted with great
prudence, but he thought also that if the House of Com-
mons had been let a little into their schemes they would not
lq.ve beenthe worse for making the communication. (Hear.)
There might be members in that house who would have
urged her Majesty's Government to a stronger and appar-
ently more energetic policy, and to a more decided interven-
tion. It might have appeared that the House of Commons
was not only prepared to go as far as the Government, but
further if necessary; and he did not believe that the display
of a firm trust in the House of Commons would have any
other effect than to strengthen the hands of the Government.
(Hear, hear.) He could not suppose that the Government
had been actuated by any fear of their intentions being
known, or through an apprehension that any power or po-
tentate in Europe would be impressed with the notion that
any menace was held out by this country. (Hear, hear.)
He was himself so completely convinced of the extreme
difficulty and complexity of the question that he could not
but excuse the Government. His honourable friend who
had spoken below the gangway talked of the question of
the independence of Turkey and her relations with Russia
as if it were merely a question between two great powers,
and not one involving complicated subjects both of nation-
ality and of religion ; but the more he (Mr. M. Milnes)
learned on the subject the more he was impressed with the
extreme difficulty of dealing with them. (Hear, hear.) A
minister, he thought, might be fully justified in laying
down the principle that he would do all he could for the
protection of the interests of Turkey, without pledging
himself at the same time that this country would go to
war on every particular point that in any way interfered
with that independence. (Hear, hear.) When they con-
sidered that they had to deal with a Christian power
having the sympathies of a portion of the people within
the Turkish dominions, and that they were called upon to
maintain in Europe a power with whose principles, as re-
garded religion and civilisation, they totally disagreed, it
would be seen that her Majesty's Government had a more
difficulty duty to perform than if the object of this country
was to prevent one Christian power from invading the
rights of another. (Hear, hear.) In that difficulty they
must be permitted in some degree to temporise, and if he
were inclined to find fault with the statement made by the
noble lord, it was because the noble lord did not inform
them that the present note, or whatever it was to which
the Turkish Government was to submit, would in any de-
gree place the Turkish Government in a better position than
it would have been in if it had not been induced to resist
the demands of Prince Menschikoff. (Hear.) Knowing, as
they did, the financial difficulties of Turkey, they should
no, have encouraged her to resist further than they were
ready to support her ; and if it were the policy of this
country to permit a certain amount of Russian influence
in Turkey without resisting that influence by force of
arms, he could not but agree with the noble lord that the
departure of Prince Menschikoff was a most unfortunate
event, and it was to be regretted that no means had been
used to prevent that open rupture. (Hear, hear.) If at
that moment they regarded it as a happy conclusion of
affairs that the Russian Government should be allowed to
exercise considerable authority, and interfere with the
Christian subjects of the Sultan, and permitted the Turkish
ambassador to ask for that as a favour at St. Petersburg,
he thought it would have been much better if they had
urged upon Turkey to consent to the offer of Russia in the
beginning, and thus saved Turkey from the drain upon
her narrow and limited resources by the expenses incurred
in the preparation of an armament for her defence. (Hear.)
The whole matter would come before them at a future
meeting of Parliament, and then the question would not
be whether her Majesty's Government had acted with
undue moderation in acceding to the demands of Russia;
the question would be whether they had not in some de-
gree encouraged Turkey in adopting a line of policy in
which they were not prepared wholly to sustain her.
(Hear, hear.) With regard to the course that might be
adopted by the Christian population in Turkey, it should
be recollected that there were in all the provinces certain
individuals who understood that it would be for the best
interests of the Christian population of Turkey that the
Turkish rule should continue some time longer, because
they enjoyed under it a degree of toleration that they
could not expect to enjoy under an autocratic European
domination ; but he did not think that feeling extended
throughout the whole of that population, and that, in the
event of an open whr, between Russia and Turkey, the
Turkish Government would find that a portion of the
Christian population would either side with the invader,
or afford but little aid to the Government. (Hear.)

Lord J. RUSSELL—I owe some explanation to the
absence
right hon, gentleman the member for Droitwich, who ap-
pearsßuckinghthink that I ought to have given a longer notice
or the statement.' was going to make. With regard to the
to •
that
vlevv:zzeke;e:iehe: uo doubt,
of the honourable gentleman the member for
been avrare__atic that right hon. gentleman must have
was aware—that I said On a
before Parliament should separate
the right he; statementgentleman
that I have made. No doubt
enter into a discus was n
theot going
Govern-
some to
discussion thought that I
hat I was merely able to state
on which
en t
fa a havefacts proceeded
Turkey. (Hear.)
The
right
tesbent relations of Russia and
for Droitwich is quite right wheenn. gentleman the member
relatiosgiotao' otaiafn:dht) reasons
is committed to any opinion on thhee states that no member
ment. I wished to elicit no opimconduct of the Govern-
any arguments proving or attemptingon, and I did not state
to
of the course of the Government, (gear,) the tvisci
hon. members had wished some explanation should
several
made, and I complied with that wish with then "hculil he
ing them such an explanation as I could -view of giv-
give. (gear
stated
hear.) In fact I went beyond the precedents, and '
I
more than was stated in the case to which I alluded
1841. I think that what the hon. member for Aylesbury
has
in:
has said only shows that any opinion as to the wisdom o-r
folly of our course ought to be reserved until the papers are
seen. (Hear, hear.) I shall not enter into a dispute with
him, because if I did so I would be obliged to enter
to which
into a
narrative which I can only tell from the papers
he has not access. (Hear.) Therefore I don't think
if it right
to enter into that discussion. I can only say, that peace
at any price is a bad maxim, I cannot see that war at any
price is at all better. (Laughter.) My noble friensd
ththat
e
member for Marylebone has referred to the question
were addressed to her Majesty's Government to ascertain
their opinions ; and of this I will remind my noble friend,