The Sun.
London, England, 1854-06-27 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, JUNE 27, 1854.

ready to renew it. without reference to the present posture
of affairs. (Hear, hear.) I have explained to your lord-
ships how it came tkat C insisted the other evening upon
the limited extent of the territorial acquisitions which
Russia had made in consequence of the treaty of Adrianople.
My statement hpou that point is perfectly tine ; it is in-
controvertible ; but it was intended to he qualified in the
manner which I have now stated to your lordships. I feel,
therefore, that I have nothing further to say, of the treaty of
Adrianople. Ithas also been said that I recommended areturn
to the status quo, or, at least, that I would not object to it.
Now, toy lords, this statement suprises memore than any-
thing ; because I had taken special care to explain that point
in my answer to the observations of my noble and learned
friend. I stated that that might be the cause of some
apparently ambiguens expressions used by Austria and.
by Prussia, as compared with the expressions used by our-
selves, and I said that Austria and Prussia might be desir-
ous to restore the status quo ; but, at the same time, I
made the specific declaration that that was by no means
applicable to us—that is, to Engl end and France. (Hear.)
You are aware, my lords, that before the declaration of
war the status quo was all that- we hoped for—all that we
desired—all that we attempted to obtain, and that was the
condition which the Turkish Government signified its wil-
lingness to agree to. The treaty of Vienna was framed
upon the understanding agreed to by ell the four powers,
that the relations between Russia and Turkey should revert
to the status quo: We thought that was quite as much as
the Ern eeror of Russia could expect us to offer, and much
more than he had any right to expect. But. my lords, we
proposed that in the rope that we should be able to preserve
the state of peace, and that we should be able to avert our
entering upon a. course where all the evil passions that war
engenders would be let loose. But the instant that war was
declared, the state of the question was entirely altered. I
(Cheers.) From that moment everything depended upon
the war itself, and we are left free to exercise our own judg- I
went —to do that wbich we think will best suit our own int -
rests and policy in framing the terms of peace. From that
moment the status quo was entirely at an end. (Cheers.)
Very well I also said, as to the terms of peace, that how-
ever desirable, however necessary' we might think certain
terms to be, still it would be unwise iu us now, in the pre-
sent state of the war, to lay down any conditions of peace
as those to which alone we will accede. (Hear.) These must
depend upon the events of the war; and in the debate to
which I have alreadyreferred I recollect I did say that the
conditions of peace would be very different if we found the
Russians at Constantinople from what they would be if we
found ourselves at St. Petersburg. Well, my lords, with-
in these points lies the whole scope of the variance from
the status qua. How far we may deviate from the status qua
no man can at this moment say, because that must depend
upon events which are not within our power absolutely to
control. But, this we can say, that the independence and
integrity ef Turkey are undoubted c. nditions-ethey consti-
tute the sine qua non —that must be secured, and secured
effectually. (Cheers.) But how that is to be done must again
depend upon the progress of events, in the course of the
negotiations which may takeplace- at the -moment. But
that security must be taken—security for the independence
and integrity of Turkey, so far as depends upon Russia, is
really the object from which we are determined not to de-
part. (Cheers.) But ugain, I say, how this is to be ob-
tained neither I nor any man,in this house is able to say.
We know what our object is—our main object at least—
and of course by one mode or another we will obtain that
without which peace is impossible (Hear,• hear.) I think,
also, exception has been taken to some expressions of mine,
as I have expressed doubt or disbelief of any danger. froth .-
Russian aggression. Now, I wish here to say that I have
the greatest alarm as to Russian aggression against Turkey.
But against that aggression in any shape—whether in the
shape of influence, whether in the shape of conqueet, or in
any other mode—we are prepared to protect her. But,
with respect to Russian aggression upon EUrope, Indepen-
dent of her designs upon Turkey, I certainly did express
no great alarm, because I feel no great alarm, and lam in-
clined to feel less and less every day. (Laughter.) If Russia,
indeed, could be supposed to be in possession of Constanti-
nople, if she hat made good her aggression upon Turkey,
if she were in possession of Constantinople then indeed I
should feel alarmed for Europe, because I think Russia
would acquire then the means of becoming formidable and
dangerous to Europe. Without that, my birds, I cannot pre-
tend to say that I feel any great alarm. I consider France
to be more powerful than Russia and Austria put together
—(hear, hear)—and it is therefore impossible for me to look
upon Russia with any great alarm out of her own frontiers,
or in such a light as would induce me to think te.at it would
be better to enter at once into a state of war in order to
repress dangers which Ido not feel. Danger from Russia
against Europe appears to me mainly, if not entirely, to
depend upon her power in Turkey and in the East. If that
power be checked—and it is to be hoped that we shall suc-
ceed in keeping herentirely free from exciting further alarm
in the Turkish territories—then I cannot possibly think
that there need be any very great alarm as to what she may
do to Austria, or Prussia, or France, or England. (Cheers.)
This, however inuchlit-has been misunderstood, was really
all that I meant to express as to my general incredulity of
any danger from Russian aggression. I have now shown
your lordships what sort of aggression it is that I am afraid
of, and what sort of aggression itis that I am not afraid of.
I am not aware that there is any other part of the observe
tions which I addressed to your lordships the other night
which requires further explanation. I believe I have already
explained everything which, from being misunderstood at,
the time, appeared to be calculated to excite feelings of dis-
trust in the Government. My lords, I wish I could confine
myself to this explanation ; to the full expression of the
seetiments I entertain, and which appeared to me necessary
to be explained. I could have wished ce.taiuly that I might
have been spared the necessity of saying anything about the
extraordinary and absurd imputations—the personal im-
putations—to which I have been exposed. (Loud cheers.)
I have no fear that your lordships, who are accustomed to
weigh the actions and the sentiments of public men, will fail I
to coarpreheud the motives from which I have acted; and the
misrepresentation of them has been so ludicrously absurd
that I feel—indignant as I arn—l feel it would not be worthy
of toe position which I now occupy—it would not be worthy
pf the memory of those with whom I have acted—it would '
not be worthy of my own character, if I were to condescend
to enter upon any justification of my personal motives.
(Cheers.) My lords, it is true thatl have more than any other
man struggled -to preserve the state of peace for-this country.
I have done so because I thought it my duty to the people
of this country--my duty to God and roan—to exhaust every
possible means of preserving peace, and my only regret
is—though I trust your lordships will acquit me on that
point—my only regret is, that I should not have done all, •
and lest in any way I should have lost some possible
means of averting the greatest calamity that can be- ,
fall a country, for, however glorious any war may be, the
calamities which accmnpany it are heavy enough greatly
to outweigh that glory I know it has been sail if you
love peace so much, you are unfit for war. My lords,
though peace is so dear to my feelings, still I am convince.l
of the necessity of this war. Bat how do I wish to make
war ? I wish to make war in order to obtain a peace ; and
I know well that'the best mode of making war in order
speedily to obtain a peace is to make war with the utmost
vigemr and determination. (Cheers.) My noble friends
near me know well enough that, peaceable as I am, I
have never Shrink -that, on the contrary, I have give n
my most ready concurrence to the most active measures of
hostility and warlike preparations. Nay more, I believe
linter say they will admit that I have personally been
more urgent than perlie 's any other rennin exhorting the
speedy concentration and advance of the allied forces north
of the Balkan in support of the • gallant army of Omer
Pacha, and to extend a helping hand to Austria in order
to enable her' to carry out hereprofessions. (Cheers.) This,
except for the warmth of the feelings under whichl spoke,
I ought not perhaps to say—(cheers)—but it is the trill
that, in the course we have taken; .1 have invariably urged.
the roost decided course of action. (Cheers.) My lords, I
have now no more to say. I wish to confine myself to this
subject without entering upon other topics more or less
connected with the war—with the events that led to it, or
that may follow from it—l wish to remove understandings
which I feet to be perfectly erroneous interpretations of
what I said, and I now declare that so far from my former
endeavours to preserve peace disqualifying me from car•
ryin; on the war, I think, though ofcourse I may be wrong
in the particular means, I think we ought to have recourse
to the most .expedient, the most prompt, the most suc-
cessful means of carrying it On. I maintain, and assert,
that my very love of peace in.luceS me pow to enter upon
this war, which I unquestionably believe to be a perfectly
just war—(cheers) —arel"therefore• it is that I—so long as
I have anything to do with the Government—Shall
carry it on in such a manner as will be most
likely to secure benefit to England, and to establish a safe
and honourable peace. (Loud and continued cheers )
The Marquis of CLA.NRIOARDE said the explanation
of the noble earl hail been rendered necessary in conse-
quence of the observations he made on a former evening
to the speech of the noble and learned lord opposite, to
whom this country and all Ehrope were indebted for the
lucid explanations he had given of the state of our rela-
tions with Russia. But, though the eiplanations of the
noble earl were confined to that subject, still he must say
that the question which the noble earl had now raised was
on a much wider scale than the immediate effect or the
precise terms of the treaty of Adriauople. He understood
that the noble earl wished to state clearly to their lord-
ships his views, not upon the war only, but upon the fo-
reign policy of the .country in general. He had gone as
far back as 1899, and he had more than once stated that
he through life had been consistent, in which he (the Mar-
oe
uhg had
laidq i s
hoof f
oCrel atoll
ei °ire rido er Lehnitpi
sr e lgyr
oaug
uredesd
owl! t
whch hhim, aendthh
himself entitled to the confidence of Parliament, and to be
allowed to cmduct the war to its termination. That was
a great question, which he (the Marquis of Clanricarde)
un
it had been mooted, he would not shrink from discussing
donbtedly would not have mooted in the house, but as
it—while he readily admitted—andeif necessary, would
assert and maintain—that the noble lord had through his
whole life acted with entire consistency, and also with
considerable ability, yet, ever since 1829, it was his mis-
fortune to differ from the noble earl on almost every topic
of foreign policy, and he thought that the sentiments and
principles which had dictated that policy, and the reputa-
tion which the noble earl acquired in support of it, were
the principal causes which hart led to this war, during
the
the
course of welch he thought 'that' the past conduct of
noble earl rendered him unfit to be her Majesty's chief ad-
viser. But he must say a Word or two with respect to this
despatch. The noble earl had dwelt upon the fact that it
had been adverted to so long ago as by the bite Earl Grey,
and that Lord Melbourne refused to permit it to be pub-
liehed— .
The Earl of ABERDEEN was understood to express
his dissent. -
- The Marquis of CLANRICARDE—At all events it was
considered that this despatch was of such an important
nature that it was not advisable to publish it. So lately
as February last, a member of the other house, feeling that
the despatch ought not to be quoted by Ministers'unless it
was laid before Parliament, moved for its production, and
the answer of,Lord John Russell was, that he could not
undertake to'produce it without first consulting-with the
noble earl. That -consultaticin was held, and the result
was, filet the despatch was not produded. He must say,
then, that the noble earl now proposed for -his personal
convenience—perhepe for its being necessary to his own
vindication, but in either case from personal motives—had
consented to do that which he had formerlydeclared to be
calculated to injure the public service. Amid do not let
hind be told thet this wonderful document which had been
so lOng talked of, and which was now about to be sub-
mitted to profane eyes—do not let it be said that it could
not be produced in February last, because war bad not
bean declared, for what was the remark of the noble earl
site? He said, they might have hebn very well before we
upon the observations of the noble and learned lord oppO-
went to war, in order to rouse
.the public indignation
against Russ a, bat that 'nowt' there was no occasion for
them. If that were so with regard to the noble and learn-
ed lord's observations, surely it. would have. boon equally
true with respect to the production of the despatch. He
noble earl first took office. lie made ageneral declaration of
might also remind the house that, at the time when the
his-Views, and he was reported to have stated that the main
principles of the foreign policy of this country had not varied
for the a partit.llo eoattion of rho polies • •

and, perhaps, the line is not inapplicable to the Emperor
of Russia, in haring determined to pursue the same objects
by different means, and means calculated not so greatly to
alarm the European powers. (Rear, and a laugh.) I
believe this is the secret of all that has taken place in
recent years. Take, for example, the treaty of Unkair
Skelessi, eonchided when a Russian arnay was in possession
of Constantinople. There can be no doubt that if the
former policy of the Empress Catherine had been followed
upon that occasion great territorial acquisitions would
have been made, and they could not have been resisted in
the relative positions of the two powers at the time; but
in consequence, as I believe,
of the change of policy coin-
inenced by the treaty of Adrianople, the demands of
Russia at the concinsion of the treaty of Unkiar Skelessi,
though they were of the highest importance both to Russia
and the Porte, did not assume the character'of territorial
avrandisement. So with the mission of Prince lieu-
sehikoff himself. Russia was in a position in which she
might have made demands of the most pressing nature
upon Turkey. She had s me reason for adopting that
course; hut, instead of diluting anything like terri-
torial indemnity, she at once pressed for talitional
privileges, and if she had obtained those additional
privileges for her co-re igionists in the Turkish
empire, I have no doubt -that the invasion of the
principalities would never havotaken place, or would imme-
diately have ceased on the Sultan complying with her de-
mands. But of course we felt —Europe felt—that the in-
dependence of Turkey would ho as much endangered by.
the cession of such rights and privileges as were claimed by
Russia as it would have been had she made a positive de-
mand for territorial indemnity ; and therefore it was that
the pretensions of Russia were resisted. Now, my lords,
I have been supposed to say also that I desired, or did not
object, to a return to the treaty of Adrianople, because I
stated that if we could obtain a peace which should last
for 25 years we should not do amiss. (Hear, bear.) Nor
should we ; but when I said that I never for a moment
meant to convey the impression which it seems my words
have produced. (Hear, hear.) I never said a word to
imply that I desired to return to the treaty of Adrianople.
(
What I said, or intended to say, was, that
the Adrianople has given us peace for 25 years,
treatyar, lie
of
f)
treaty which the fortune of war might
aen%lbtlheaut
siftobyt.naank y e we should secure peace for an equal
length of time, we should not, consibring the instability
of all human Zara, do so very far aelisa Therefore,• my
lords, I am quite at a loss to conceive upon what ground
any one ah mid dare to say, first, that I have claimed the
honour of making the treaty ofMrian.ople, and,next2 that
I aka* vi Was iuclifferat toits conditioth pci vt_as

have varied with different individuals, but that the main
principles of the policy had not in themselves varied. Now
he differed entirely from that statement, and he believed that
forthe last 30 years contending principles had been in agita-
tion over all the continent of Europe, and that the different
Governments
.and Ministers Who administered the affairs
of this country had varied thepolicy according as they
favoured one or other of these principles. He must say
further, that in 1823, when the noble earl first became
Foreign Secretary, and in 1823, to which they were so fre-
quently told to refer; the noble earl was the most Constant,
the most zealous, the most powerful (in this country) ad-
vocate and supporter of the arbitrary governments of
Europe. (Oh, oh.) He was at all times the advocate
more or less of the Emperor of Russia, and he was opposed
on every occasion to the introduction of constitutional
government. (" No, no," from Lord Aberdeen.) No !
He was ready to cite instances. But let him now go back
to the treaty of Adrianople. The noble earl had told
them 'to-night, as he had told them before' that he looked
upon that treaty with extreme horror, and that under the
influence of that feeling he wrote the despatch. But he
wished the noble earl would tell them, not of the despatch
which he wrote in December, after the treaty had been
signed in March—what he wanted to know was, the in-
struction ho had given to our Minister at St. Petersburg
the year before. (Hear, hear.) He would like to see the
steps which the noble earl' took to prevent the aggression.
The noble earl the other night represente.l the Russian
army as having arrived in the attitude of conquerors
within a short distance from the capital, and as being
able, if they had persevered, to overturn the Government
of Turkey. 'Now, if the noble earl did not know the real
state of the case at the time that the treaty was signed,
which, if proper care hail been ta.k.en, he might have
known, yet surely he ought to have known in December of
that year, wlntn he wrote his despatch, and most assuredly
he ought to know now that that army did not arrive at
Adrianople as conquerors—that the general in command
had not more than a nond.ial army of 15,000 men re-
maining, and that out of these there were from 7,000 to
8,000 men who, from fatigue and wounds, were hors de
combat. He had never heard it disputed that that por-
tion of the army which was in a condition to march did
not exceed 12,000, though some good authorities reckoned
them at B,ooi men, while it was known that the Turkish
general had, within a short distance of thorn, an army of
25,00 J men. If the respective parties had been left alone,
and if the Turks had had the least knowledge of the real
state of the case, that disastrous treaty, as the noble earl
called it, would never have been signed. More than that,
if the noble earl, as the Foreign Minister of this country,
had but held up his finger, that treaty would never have
been signed. What was the course purimed between the
Russian and the Turkish generals? The Russian general
gave the Turks—as well be migtt—a very short time for
consideration ; had they known the truth, they never
would. have signed. But only five days were allowed for
consideration. And what was the course taken at Con-
stantinople? The Turkish minister summoned the ambas-
sadors of Austria, Prussia, and England, and asked their
advice. The English minister, among others, advised the
Turks to sign the treaty which the noble earl now told.
them was disastrous. And who was our minister at that.
time at Constantinople ? That lamented diplomatist the
late Sir Robert Gordon, who, a short tinre before, had in
a rather summary manner superseded Sir. Stratford Can-
ning. That minister must have known well what were the
feelings of this Government at the time he gave the advice,
and yet the noble earl now told them that it was against
that treaty he sat down to write the despatch; but it would I
be more satisfactory if he would show what steps he took
to prevent the treaty being signed. It was plain that the
despatch had done the noble earl no harm in the eyes of
the Emperor of Russia, for, from the fulsome compliments
which he bestowed upon him in the despatches lately pub-
lished, it appeared that, far from regarding the noble earl
as an enemy, he regarded him as his strictest and most re-
liable
friend. The noble earl told them that that treaty
produced a remarkable change in the foreign policy of this
country—that all the ministers who went before him
wished that Greece might remain in a state of vassalage
towards Turkey, but that after the signing of the treaty
of A.irianople he had advocated the erection of Greece into
an independent kingdom. But how the removing of
Greece from Turkey was likely to strengthen and support
Turkey, he confessed it passed his comprehension to under- I
stand. The noble earl said that the effect of that treaty I
had been to give twenty-five years of peace. He could only '
mean between Russia and Turkey. Bid he could not un- i
derstand what was the noble earl's notion of peace, or how
he could describe Russia as a peaceable neighbour to I
Turkey, when so far back as ten years ago the Emperor I
made a proposition to the noble earl, then the Foreign
Minister, which he resumed as soon as the noble earl again 1
took office in 1852, to partition the very country of which 1
the noble earl told them the Emperor was such a peaceable
and well conducted neighbour. Was that the morality 1
which the noble earl would teach great States to observe
to minor States in trek neighbourhood? How could the 1
Emperor of Russip, be described as a peaceable neighbour
to Turkey when twice within the last ten years he had I
proposed to partition her territories? But since 1829 there 1
had been other great questions agitating Europe and this
country. There was the conte-t in Portugal,
war, and which was always described to be a war, essen-
tially which was a
' of opinion. Don Miguel was then the chief who I
espoused the cause of despotism and arbitrary power ; and
Donna Maria, the legitimate heiress, wag supported by all j
who were attached to constitutional opinions. What was
then the conduct of the noble earl? He was the mainstay
of the supporters of despotism, and if he had not been in
power he defied any man to say that Don Miguel would ever 1
have attained the throne. The noble earl might say that he -1
had never recognised him. It was true that he did not ; but,
at the same time, he prevented the sailing of an expedition
which would have dethroned the usurper, and his refusal to t
recognise him proceeded from no dislike to his arbi- I
trary principles, hut because he would not comply with i
some special conditions which the noble earl attached to i
his recognition. Notwithstanding this, ho gave to Don
Miguel all the support he could give, and far more than was
approved of by Parliament and by the country. But was
that all? How did matters stand in Spain ? Was not the
noble earl continually finding fault with what was done there
for the support of constitutional institutions? Hewes con-
tinually in the habit of criticising the quadruple alliance
t.-5, means of which constitutional Glizmernrceist vv.. e.t.a!
lished in Spain, and he was notoriously attached to the
cause of Don Carlos. • (Oh, oh.) Tile noble earl shook his
hmd, but he would refer him to still another matter. What
did he say to the case of Belgium? After the French Re-
, volution, the Belgians, who were suffering, not only from
national 'feelings, but from very grievous results of mis-
government, at last revolted ; the noble earl, who was then
in office, talked of it as a revolt, and openly expressed his
wish that the authority of the King of Holland might be
re-established. He did not blame the noble earl for hold-
ing that language when the revolt was in progress ; but
what did ho say in 1832, after the separation of the two
countries had been completed ? He then toll the house
that nothing was surprising in any country during a state
of rebellion and revolt, but that the revolution was the
most senseless and unintelligible of any recorded in history.
Those were his sentiments in 1832, and that, was all the
sympathy.he manifested towards a gallant people, who had
thrown off a yoke which they were unable to bear, and
who wore then engaged in laying the foundations of a con-
stitutional Government, which had been the means since
of showing the continent of Europe how much loyalty and
liberty were compatible with each other, and how the arts
and industry flourished best under a constitutional form
of government. He must say he was ashamed to hear the
noel° earl, on a former occasion, taunt the noble lord op-
posite (the Earl of Malmesbury) with having received the
compliments of Prince Schwartzeuburg on his accession to
office. There was no one of their lordships who could mis-
take for a moment what those compliments meant. The
noble lord opposite had received them because it was sup-
posed that he had been thrown by the vicissitudes of party
into-the position of the noble earl, of whom he was at one
time a supporter and au abettor, and whose policy it
was supposed he would carry out. (Laughter.) The
noble earl took credit to himself for being the author of
the entente cordials with F,rauce. But as the noble
earl had carried them back to 1829, it was not to be
forgotten that in that year Prince Polignac had left this
country for. Paris to become the Minister of France. It
was perfectly notorious that the noble earl wished him to
bo the French Minister. He' was Minister for a few
months, and they all knew the catastrophe which followed.
He begged to observe ou what the effect of the speech of
the noble earl had een. It.was not a question of particu
lar phrases, but of what speeches it followed. Undoubt-
edly, the noble earl rose to answer the speech of the Secre-
tary of State for Foreign Affairs, who joined in the argu-
ments of the noble lord opposite (Lord Lyndhurst), and
could not resist the reasonings and conclusions to which
that reasoning lei. Out of the abundance-of the heart the
mouth of the noble earl spoke, and uttered sentiments
which had created such universal astonishment and repre-
hension that the noble earl came down to-night to explain
them away. The noble earl justified the tardiness, and
what the noble earl allowed to be apparent, but which he
believed to be real, vacillation of the Government, because
it was wished to carry with them the governments of the
Continent. L!
the borders of Germany, and which he could state, of his
Independance Beige, a paper published on
own knowledge, had an immense circulation all over Ger-
many, contained a statement of the impression that speech
made upon the gentlemen who reported for it. It was a
telegraphic despatch, and therefore contained only a short
summary of the general effect of each speech.
" Londres, mardi.
" Dans la' séance de la Chambre des Lords de la nuit
derniere, Lord Lyndhurst a appele l'attention du Gou-
vernement et-de la Chambre cur le Memorandum relatif a
la question d'Orient transmis par les cours de Vienne et de
Berlin a leurs envoyes respectifs pres de la -Diet° Ger-
manique. - • •
" Les Lords Lyndhurst et Clarendon oat declare. qu'il
fallait que la Russie fournit des garanties materielles contre
le retour des actes d'agression qui ont provoque la situa-
tion actuelle.
" Lord Derby a soutenu qu'il. fallait que la Russie fttt
contrainte a restituer les territoires dont elle s'est rendue
maitresse au detriment des nations voisines.• Lord Aber-
deen a essaye de
justifier la. conduite de la Russie, et
plaide la cause de la paix."
(Laughter.) Ho thought, for a short summai y, that was
extremely accurate. He thought that was the tenour of
the noble earl's speech ; that be did justify some of the
acts of the Emperor of Russia and that he did plead very
Strongly in favour of peace. But was that a wise 'speech
for the Minister of this country to make at a moment we
were engaged in a struggle, which the noble lord might
fancy, and he hoped his fancy was well founded, would
speedily terminate, but which might be prolonged, and re
quire from the people groat sacrifices. So far from plead-
ing, however, indirectly for the enemy, the language of
h a
the noble earl should ve been of a totally different na-
ture. (Hear.) Such language would be carried to our fleets
and -t' ivies, when every endeavour ought, to be made to
convince every man, from the highest to the lowest rank
in the services, that they were risking their lives and in-
curring hardships in a war which was absolutely necessary
to check unjust aggression, and to protect the interests of
this country and of Europe. (Hear.) The noble earl said
he was one of the most urgent in helping forward warlike
preparation. He left that question, which was a question
of comparison, to be settle" between the noble earl an
his colleagues. But it certainly did happen to be within
his own. knowledge, that there was current throughout
this country and a greater part of Germany, a belief that
the noble earl had stated, such was his recollection and his
horror of war, that, come what might, to war he would I
not be a party. That now proved to have been a misap-
prehension, for the noble earl said he was urgent for fur-
thering and haeteningpreparations for war. Their lordships
were in poseessiou of a great deal more information than
when this subject was discussed in the beginning of the
session. Their information from Russia had been greatly
augmented. They now knew what was going on in the
Russian capital, and in several considerable towns of that
empire, from persons who were resident there in the
month of December last. • It had been stated as a fact
to him that the
attempted to be executed had been drawn up 'by. the
plan of campaign which had since been
highest military authority in Russia, was well known to
several persons in that country, had been - discussed
in -military
,circles, and had been communicated even
to foreigners in the month of Decetnberlast. It was not a
0c0p6494 01 the principalitoB, 11,0

which it was stated )o what terms and to what ex-
tent this country was likely to push its demands, if at
this moment the Emperor of. Russia were to show his
irclination to negotiate for peace. If there was any
ground for the assertion in this paper, and if the noble
earl knew, as ho stated, Pr ince Metternich was guiding the
councils of A.usV a. he then considered there was serious
cause for alarm that this country might be already com-
promised by some act of its Minister, and that however
great the defeat sustained by Russia at the hands of the
Turks, the peace to which they would have to look for-
ward would not be of that character which this country
was entitled to expect. He hoped, before the debate closed,
the noble earl would- give some further explanation as to
that passage -in his speech with regard to the treaty of
Adrianople and the history of that period. He owned,
when he heard the statement of the noble earl the other
night, he was astonished at what he believed to be the
noble earl's misapprehensicn of the position of the parties
at the time, and what appeared to him to be an incorrect
statement of facts. He certainly did understand the noble
earl to say that the treaty of Adrianople gave no territorial
accession to Russia—that it did not give in any way more
thail Russia was entitled to demand. With regard to ter-
ritorial accession, they knew that in Europe Russia ob-
tained a most imp9rtant though not very extensive addi-
tionabiludt f
Ao
ij rz te hr
ba
aanc c
woulde ss
on
wholethat occasion;
bouft
Geointrkgsion
of territory, the
have been in the hands of the Turks. Russia obtained the
greater part of an important pachalic by possession of a
fortress which commanded the high road, and was the key
and passage to that portion of the Russian states ; and it
was only in consequence of the impregnable character of
that fortress that, early in the, commencement of the pre-
sent war, the Turks did not take entire possession of Tillie..
Russia obtained also command of the Black Sea, and was
able to establish stations by which to maintain troops,
and to carry on a bloody struggle with the independent
inhabitants of Circassia. The noble earl might lightly esti-
mate those advantages; but he was surprised that, under
the circumstances in which the country stood, he should
consider Russia made no better terms than in her position
she was entitled to expect, because the noble earl must,
know, upon various Russian authorities,:that at that mo-
ment peace was everything to. Russia, that a fortnight's
delay would not have left a single Russian alive south of
the Balkan, and that the campaign must then have been re- -
commenced. He thought opinions coming from the noble earl
which tended to lower the character of the Turks, and at
the same time to raise the character of the Russians for
moderation and honourable conduct in moments of triumph
were calculat 'd to injure the cause of peace. He trusted
the declarations of the noble earl would do away with the
unfavourable impression his speech had generally made,
and that haring adopted a new and improved course he
would pursue it with as much warmth as he had apparently
pursued the previous one. He would refrain from any
remarks on the personal conduct of the noble earl, as he rose
merely to draw his attention to a point upon which he
hoped to hear some explanation.
The Earl of ABERDEEN said—The noble earl has ad-
dressed a question to me, which I am perfectly ready to
answer, and I hope to be able to answer satisfactorily. I
observed the paragyaph in the paper which he has quoted,
and I admired its ingenuity, because, my former acquaint-
ance and friendship with. Prince Metternich having been
known, it was a very good notion to throw out the idea
that L was engaged in negotiations with him in the sense
which was endeavoured to be implied by the writer of that
article. Therefore I thought it very ingenious. But I can
only say this—that what the Emperor of Austria may have
done in consulting an old and valued servant, and I hope
he may have consulted him, but whether he has or not, I
am perfectly ignorant.' (Hear.) My noble and learned
friend mentioned Prince Metternich the other night with
praise, and I took up the same strain. I have seen it re-
ported in some paper, that tha Emperor was about to take
the advice of Prince Metternich, and that he has done so
the paragraph alluded to, is I hope, in that part'correct.
Whether it be so or not I cannot say. All I know is, as
far as I am concerned, there is just the same amount of
truth in it as in all the other imputations against me, which
I have the happiness of seeing clay after day—namely, not
a single syllable. (Cheers.) It so happens that since I have
been in office, intimate as I formerly was with Prince
Metternich, neither directly nor indirectly have I had any
communication with him for the last year and a half until
a few days ago, when a lady friend of mine told me she was
writing to Prirce Metter&ch, and I said, " Pray, make my
best remembrances to him." (Cheers and laughter.)
Lord BROUGHAM did not wish to enter into a discus-
sion of the great num berofsubjects which had been alluded
to in the course of the debate. The noble marquis would
forgive, and he was sure the house would pardon, him if he
declined entering upon the very comprehensive field of in-
quiry which he had opened, but he wished to revert toone
word in the noble marquis's very able and eloquent speech.
That small word used by the noble marquis was, that the
noble earl had "explained away " the statements ha had
made on the preview; evening. He (Lord Brougham) cer-
tainly had listened to the former speech of his noble friend
with that attention which the importance of the subject and
his high position demanded, and he had also listened with
equal attention to the speech which the noble earl had just
made. He was not prepared to say that in the statements
of the noble earl that eveningthere had been anything said
which could be called either retracting or explaining away
anything in the former speech which had been so greatly
misapprehended and misrepresented. He certainly felt
highlysatisfied with the speech of that evening, not on ac-
count of the details into which it entered, but more espe-
cially on accohnt of that with which he began, and that
with whichithe noble eail had concluded,Uvowin„e that the
noble earl the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs had
truly spoken his sentiments on the occasion, and that after
all the pains which he had taken—and for which their lord-
ships and the oountry ought to feel grateful—to avoid the
necessity of war, yet that once entered upon the contest, it
should be no fault of his that it was not conducted with
perfect determination and vigour. As for what the noble
earl had said of the treaty of Adrianople, he purposely de-
clined going intothat question, except simply to state that
he thought the noble earl had not, with his usual acuteness,
perceived the very great difference between the present
state of things and those which existed when the produc-
tion of this despatch was first refused. It was first asked
for in Fe'ruary—.it was granted towards the end of
June; and in the interval there had arisen the unhappy
circumstance that we were at war with the Emperor
Nicholas. The production of that despatch at a time
when we were at peace with that sovereign would have
been most injudicious, even most hurtful, but in the pre-
sent state of things it could produce no such evil. lie
entirely agreed with those who felt apprehensive of entering
at the present moment —in the present posture of affairs,
aye, and in the present posture of our foreign relations—
into anything like a discussion or minute examination, be
would almost say of any discussion or examination at all.
of what it would be expedient to lay down hereafter, when
the time far negotiation should happily arrive, as the basis
of that negotiation. All must depend upon the state of
affairs at that time, and it would be a monstrous and inju-
rious policy, fraught with serious inconvenience and mis-
chief, if they were now to discuss hypothetically what
might or might not be fit terms to accept. It was of incal-
culable importance that, by the blessing of Providence and
the marvellous efforts of the Ottoman :Mules, the successes
which had been achieved had been effected by the Turks
themselves, and before their allies had even time to inter-
fere or give their aid by coining to their assistance. His
apprehensions' he confessed, were for the period when he
should hear that a movement had been made by the enemy
for quitting the Principalities and to return to his own ter-
ritory. He could not help fearing that there might arise
embarrassment to us and to our ally France—that great
embarrassment of France having probably made some con-
cession to Austria, and Austria then calling upon us to
enter into negotiations—of that he had more dread than of
the war itself: ' (Hear, hear.) Because, if we were drawn
into negotiations, the long series of diplomatic acts and
protocols might be continued, with all the resources of
Russian diplomacy, dragging us, perhaps, through the
whole summer and autumn, to the time when the Black
Sea and the Baltic would be in very different circainstances
from those in which they happily now were. He trusted
that the opinion expressed the other night, and now repeated
by the noble earl, that the Western Powers were not com-
mitted by anything which had been done at Vienna or Ber-
lin, would bo shared by our great, magnanimous, and most
honourably ally— France. H had no distrust of Austria--
he should say nothing of Prussia; he had perfect confi-
dence in the wisdom and sage councils of the advisers of the
Emperor of Austria, and in the character of the young Em-
peror himself ; but certainly a proposition was supposed
to have been made by Austria to the Czar which, if it
were to lead. to those negotiations, it would be for the
Western Powers to say whether they should bear a part
in them or not, and if they were to bear a part in them,
he trusted that a certain time--and that not a very long
time -would be fixed, within which those negotiatiot
must terminate .or cease, and then the war be prosecuted
with energy as before. (Hear, hear.) It
was
oneout else,ot t he
t o
power of her Majesty's Government, or of anyt
ourselves alone, but upon others.
It must depend, not upon
prognosticate what would be the result of thepresen war.
EbaeswteoranldpovWenq sa,robutot
hype,
FlireandcpioderfneTcohttlscin'ohre(oalnilelitvtheyre'which happily had prevailed be-
'country and France up to the present time
ttwhwoaeitielnd stilltls continue, and that they should go on together
as they had gone on from the beginning until peace was
obtained, coupled with guarantees against the repetition,
at a more opportune moment, of conduct which all must
condemn. Those guarantees would, he trusted, be such as
should afford security against future aggression, and of
such a nature as should entitle us to call the result of our
negotiations and of our campaign by the name of " peace,"
for without such guarantee it would only be a semblance
of peace, or, at best, little better than an armed truce.
The other orders of the day having been disposed of,
their lordships adjourned.

for crossing the Danube, for the siege of Silistria, for the
establishment of magazines, for passing Shumla, and for
every contingency of a march to the other 'aide of? the:Bal-
kans, were definitively laid down and discussed in St. Pe-
tersburg and other.large towns, in the month of December.
It was oven said that a suggestion, what was to be done
if the Russian forces met 30,000 or 40,000. English and
French troops upon or immediately behind the Balkans,
was, on account of the language of the English Govern-
ment, treated as so incredible-and impossible that it never
entered into the calculation of probable hypotheses. It
was imposiible the Government of this country should not
have been aware of these things ; and he asked was it right
or proper, having this information in his possession, for
the noble earl to hold out hopes of peace in the month of
February, and to neglect preparations for war, certainly
until that month, if not until March? Perhaps some day
it would be ascertained when the preparations for war com-
menced. Of course he could have no access to official in-
formation ; but things would creep out, because subordi-
nates would not labour very hard without taking some
little credit to themselves (and God knows they bad not
much else to get), for any exertions which they might make
on particular occasions for the service of the Government.
Therefore, he saw every reason to believe that no instruc-
tions were given by the Cabinet to the Minister of War
until quite the end of February, if not the beginning of I
March. When the noble Earl took credit forheinethe '
first to make preparations, ho told them those preparations
ought to have been made in the, months of November and
December. There could have been ne harm in making
preparations, and then, instead of having to take credit for
furnishing a few gun-boats in a few days, the fleets would
have been supplied with gun-boats, which any sailor could
have told them were necessary to make the fleet efficient
for attack in the Baltic, the troops would have been trans-
ported at half the expense, and proper preparations would
have been made forreceivi rig them when they landed at their
destination. Looking at the general colour of affairs, it was
impossible not to perceive that there was considerable dif-
ference of opinion in the. Cabinet; The language of the
noble earl was not only in. contrast with that of the Secre-
tary for Foreign Affairs, but with the tone taken in the
early part of the year by members of the Government in
another place; and such a stale of things Must shake the
confidence of the country in the measures which were to
be taken. (Hear.) He would next observe upon a mat-
ter which, though a personal matter, was of very great
national importance. The Cabinet considered it ne-
cessary to divide the department of the Secretary of
State for War and the Colonies, for the sake of greater
efficiency. The head of the Cabinet was, of course, re-
sponsible for the personal composition of the Cabinet. He
could assure the noble duke who filled the situation of War
Minister that he meant not the slightest disrespect to him
in canvassing the policy of that arrangement. He could
not doubt the noble duke would carry to the discharge of
those, duties the same powers of application, the
same impartial uprightness, and the same sober and tem-
perate judgment which he had-displayed in other offices of
public trust. But, upon such an occasion as that in which
the nation was placed, and in which the noble earl at the.
head of the Government had lately to act, he did say, no
party favour, no favour to a section of a party, no per-
sonal favour to any man or set of men ought to have
weighed in the decision. He did not say only such favour
had weighed in that decision, but he did say there was
one man iu the country whom the voice of all parties and
all assists in the country pointed out as the most proper
and fittest man to be Minister of War. He need hardly
say he meant Lord Palmerston. A rare conjunction of
circumstances had granted to him long experience in mili-
tary administration, and at the same time great knowledge
of foreign affairs, and even foreign armies, beyond any
other man in this country. His talents, and the power
and vigour with which he administered any department,
were well known ; and he did say to retain Lord Palmer-
ston at the Home-office (and they had no reason to beli vs
any proposition was made to induce him to undertake the
post for which the whole country thought him the
best qualified) was to neglect an opportunity of adding
very great strength and efficiency, not only to the
Cabinet, but to the councils and resources of the
country. (Hear, hear.) The Parliamentary position
of the Government was one not only unprecedented, but a
position to suggest the gravest apprehensions in the minds
of all men who knew anything of public affairs. Let their
lordships consider for a moment what that position was !
The present Parliament was elected-about two years ago,
in the midst of a very hot party contest.- He thought, in
round numbers, they might say the decidely Conservative
party returned about 300 members. The Liberal adhe-
rents of the Government, previously in office, returned
about the same number. Those who might be considered
the followers of the late Sir Robert Peel numbered per-
haps 20 or 30: There were, besides, a certain number who
might be considered neutral members. The result was
that by a combination the Conservative Government was
overthrown, and the new Government took office a ithas
following of 320 or 330 members. Bat, of course, in the
ranks of the supporters of the noble lords opposite were a
considerable number of gentlemen, who, though they pre-
ferred his Government to any other, were ready to sup-
port any Government which they thought sufficiently Con-
servative to secure the maintenance of the great institutions
of this country, and therefore were not indisposed to sup-
port the Government of the noble earl (the Earl of Aber-
deen). The Government last year were at the head of a
party of about 400 members. - What was the state of the
Government this year ? They were unable to carry almost
any one-important measure. (Hear, hear.) That was a
very serious consideration ; anti when he asked to what
that was owing, he wished not to be told it was owing to
-the Reform Bill, and the abolition of those close boroughs
upon which a Minister could conveniently count, because
since the Reform Bill there had been Ministers of different
shades, and of decidedlydifferent complexions, and they had
been able, the same as before the Reform Bill, to exert
sufficient influence to carry on the business of the Crown
in Parliament. Besides, if it were true there was groat
difficulty in managing a reformed Parliament, how. could
any Minister who served the Crown make that assertion,
and, at the same time, propose any further reform?
(Hear, hear.) He voted for reform, and he said that re-
form had no such effect as to disable the servants of the
Crown having sufficient influence in Parliament to carry
measures which they thought the exigencies of the
irtnali rolnirea: ' Did the coustittition of the Government
itself afford any explanation ? Was there a want of
ability in the members of the Government sitting. in the
other house? He need hardly say anything of the ability
and character as a statesman of. Lord Sohn Russell, who
was respected by all men and followed by many, and
whose ability no man doubted, whose parliamentary ex-_
perience was as great practically as any man's. Was lie
unaided on the Treasury bench ? On one .side sat the
noble lord he had just named, Lord Palmerston, indis-
putably the most popular man in or out of Parliament ;
and, on the other, Mr. Gladstone, perhaps the most acute
logician, in either house, who hail shown his powers this
year by almost proving black white and that two and two
make Live. (A. laugh) There were many other men dis-
tinguished for their administrative abilities, and he asked,
with this combination of men, eminent for their parlia-
mentary experience and administrative powers, at the head
of a great party, how was it that Government was day
after day defeated, and day after day had to withdraw
measures which it could not carry for want of sufficient
support ? He attributed it fairly to the First Lord of the
Treasury, who had invited this discussion. (Hear, hear,
and a laugh.) He thought that it was because neither the
Houses of Parliament nor the country had confidence in
him in the exigency and emergency in which they were at
present placed. He did not think, and it was his firm
belief the country did . not think, his counsels had been
salutary either for averting war, or for preparing to meet
it. In attacking the public career of the noble earl, he
hoped he should be understood as not saying a word incon-
sistent with perfect personal respect. for him, or that could
offend the most gnsiiive feelings of those who enjoyed the
noble earl's intimacy, and entertained for him the greatest
respect and esteem. The noble earl said, and he was sure
said sincerely, that he was actuated by a love of peace, and
his endeavours had been directed to preserve peace. But he
said those endeavours had been inaldirected for peace. He
did not doubt the sincerity with which the noble earl was
impelled to make those efforts, but the line he took in
other matters was a line calculated to bring on, as he (the
Marquis of Clanricarde) thought it did bring on, more
than one great disorder, revolution, and trouble in
Europe. He said the presence of the noble earl at the coun-
cil table was the cause that they were now engaged in war.
(Hear, hear.) He had never altered the opinion which he
expressed when these unhappy transactions were first dis-
cussed, and if such was his opinion then, it had been greatly
confirmed by subsequent events. It appeared to him that
if a clear and honest course had been taken by the Govern-
ment twelve or fifteen months ago, there never would have
been a war. Every day proved it. From day to day the
noble earl had acknowledged in terms the power of Russia.
He seemed to think it hopeless to struggle against it, and, as
one had said, it would have been better tia have left Tur-
key to its fate, and not gone to war at all. Having then
the misfortune to attribute to the noble earl the present war,
the backwardness in entering upon it, the enormous, inor-
dinate and perfectly useless expense entailed on the coun-
try by the neglect of preparations—attributing these things
to the noble earl, he for one did not think it was advan-
tageous to the country that he should continue to be its
Minister; either to prosecute the war, or to superintend
negotiations for peace, of which the accounts to-clay gave
no very cheering prospect. He anticipated he should be
told, because he had been told before, that, strongly enter-
taining those opinions, he ought to move an address to the
Crown to remove the noble earl, or a direct vote of want
of confidence. That was a very common response for a
Minister to make to a speech which he could not answer ;
but he was quite free to admit it was very difficult for him
to meet that objection. He knew he ought to make that
motion if he saw his way afterwards.; but in the humble
position in which ho stood, he did not think it wise or ad-
vantageous to' make such a motion. Therefore, he had not
expressed before what he had expressed to-night, but he HOUSE OF COMMONS—(YESTERDAY.)
had expressed it to-night, because he was called upon by
the deliberate notice given by the noble earl that he wohld PUBLIC REVENUE AND CONSOLIDATED FUND
revert to the year 1829, that he would explain his views CHARGES BILL.
with respect to the speech he had made with respect to the On the order of the day being read for resuming the
war, and what was more important with respect to the adjourned debate on the consideration of this ,bilt as
peace which might possibly be negotiated. Under these amended, • •
circumstances he thought he should not be so uncandid, so Colonel DUNNE moved that the bill be recommitted.
puerile, so wanting in his duty, as to hesitate to say that After some discussion the house divided, and the motion
which he conscientiously believed, that it was not for the for recommitment was negatived by a majority of 90
advantage of this country the noble earl should continue against 53.
to be the chief adviser of the British Crown. The original motion was then agreed to.
Lord BEAUMONT admired the moral courage of the THE CONSTITUTION OF NEW ZEALAND.
noble earl (the Earl of Aberdeen), who, when he found his On the motion for going into committee of supply,
speech was likely to be injurious to the causein hand, took Mr. ADDERLEY called the attention of the house to
the first opportunity of explaining—though some persons the conduct of the late Governor of New Zealand in delay•
might think it, a humiliating position for a Prime Minister jug and partially frustrating the new constitution granted
to explain—the language he had used, going out of his way to that colony. He charged Governor Grey with being
to create the opportunity for so doing. He, therefore, attached to the old autocratic colonial system, and with
should avoid everything which partook of a personal cha- having set himself to retard the working of recent consti-
rector. (Hear.) But he was bound to say, though he con- tutional legislation, not only by availing himself of the
sidered the amended speech much better than the original, utmost period of legal delay in conveningthe Legislature,
and though it had removed many painful impressions but by certain illegal acts in regard to the colonial revenue,
which the first speech had -created, yet still he felt, from a Crown lands, anti otherwise.
recollection of certain passages connected with other events, Mr. F. PEEL defended the course which had been
that altogether a more satisfactory answer might have been I adopted by. Governor Grey, and said that it was unfair to
given. The reason for saying that was, that in the course , assail him fur using the discretion allowed him by law;
of his 'observations the noble earl made some remarks ' The constitution had, he said, been given to the colony ae
which conveyed to him the impression that what was stated . early as Parliament had iutended should be -the case, and
elsewhere had some truth in it. He seldom placed much : the delay spoken of was no more than was necessaiyfor the
reliance on what was stated in the public press, and cape- dna working out of the details of the electoral system.
cially in the paper to which he was about to allude, nor also vindicated Governor Grey'
Greys couduct, in regard to Ho
the
should he have thought of alluding to it if the noble earl , other points on which it had been attacked by Mr. Adder-
had not given some importance to that paper by making ley, and, eulogising the character of Sir George, said that
quotations from it on a former occasion. Ho found in the , the very best results might be anticipated from his a- nt-
paper supposed to represent the opinions of the noble earl ment to tha government of the Cape. ppo' • I'l
opposite (the Earl of Derby) the following statement : Sir JOHN PAKINGTON bore general testimony to the
g
" His Highness Prince Metternich, at the special and per- merits of Sir G. Grey Pa a colonial governor, but lie could
sonal request of his Imperial Majesty the Emperor of Aus. not consider that recent acts of Sir George inn' the colony of
trig, has embodied in a State paper his view of the arrange- New Zealand had been successfully vindicated by Mr. Peel.
menus which, in the present condition of affairs, may con- He thought that Sir George had acted indiscreetly in re-
duce to ' a just and honourable peace., We hive reason to bard to the disposal of the laud, and that he had not acted
believe that these views have been communicated, although -in conformity with the intentions of Parliament in delay-
not officially, to the Earl of Aberdeen ; and that little ink the convening of 'the Legislature.
doubt prevails, from previous communications that have The subject then -dropped.
taken place, that they will be substantially adopted by the
7 COLONIAL ESTIMATES.
English Minister." He connected with that the statement The house then went into conunittee on these estimates.
of the noble earl that he was aware Prince Metternich wall The vote of 4,019/..for-the Bermudas, after a short dis-
at the present moment guiding the councils of the Emperor - passion, was agreed to. -
of 4ostria, and it induced him to think certain comteuni- 28,875/., .salaries of stipendiary justices in the Islami of
oaticha of a non•official character had tikeA place, in Mauritius and the West Lidice.
._...
~.._,____• . - 1 -
. -