The Sun.
London, England, 1854-08-05 00:00:00

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7

[PRICE SD.

the Government virtually annulled the act of 1841, and
saved the bank from its stoppage. What then were they
going to do now? Why they were about to extend these
exemptions to all transactions in money. In October,
1847, during the commercial crisis, the exchanges from the
United States and other markets had set in decidedly in
favour of this country, and it was quite clear that the
pressure was not the result of any. national eperatiens, but
of the artificial laws 0f1844. -Now, before they passed a
bill of this nature, it.vras their duty to make some change
in that artificial law. At present the natural tendency of
events was to make money cheap, but the effect of this
bill, without the removal of the existing artificial restric-
tions, would be to reverse that tendency. In that waythe
measure would • act moat injuriously upon trading and
agricultural men of small capital, who experienced no diffi-
culty now in hoposiing money at five per cent. Mort-
gages, which now carried that rate of interest, would, be
suddenly foreclosed, unless they took some steps to prevent
an artificial scarcity of money, and rather than go to the
expense of a transfer 'upon a threat of foreclosure, men'of
moderate means would be content to add an extra two or
three per cent. to the baba* they were paying for their
money. Such, then, being the state of things in .the
provinces, the house was bound to have some regafd- kir
the interest of the Small farrotarosi shopkeeper'bliforntheY
passed a measure which .might be very well calgulated to
further the ends' of Lombard-Area; hi:W*6'4ld Most oar.
tainly act oppreadve upon the really industrious portion
of the community. If they were to extend to land, WhOse
operations ware not regulated by the London money mar-
ket, a bill which would render it liable to artificial panics,
they should at the -same time repeal the act of 1844, or
reduce the cost of transfer of real property. Dealers in
money were the servants of commerce, but pass this bill
without the necessary safeguards which he had feebly
attempted to point out, and
they would soon become its
absolute masters. Ile should herefore move that the 'bill
be committed this day three moitths:ticm:
Mr. HUME admitted the calamities which the Bank Act
of 1844 had produced in the shape of commercial panics,'
but he did not think that. was a sufficient reason for re-
fusing to repeal the usury laws. They were just as great
aniticribtie upon trade as the act of 1844, and it would be
unwise to refuse to accept one boon because they could not
at the same time obtain anolher. -This was a step in the
direction of establishing free trade in money, and it was on
that account that he, supported the bill, leaving it for a
future session to rid the country of the evils which it.
suffered under the act. of 1844. Next year, the whole
subject of that law would have to be reconsidered, and he
hoped under those circumstances the discussion which had
been opened to-night would be postponed until that
period.
Mr. W. A. WILKINSON, thought -the speech of the
hon. gentleman the member for the North Riding was more
suited to the extinct animals of the Crystal Palace than the
House of Commons of these days. (A laugh) The hog;
member seemed to argue as if the usury laws could force
men to lend money whether they would or net, but all
such absurd notions had long since been exploded,,and now
the universal impression was, that the usury laws inflicted
as much injury-upon land as upon trade or commerce. _
Mr. MALINS said the usury laws had already een
virtually repealed in reference to bills bf exchange, and for
the sake of removing-,anomalies iu the law a measure of
this nature was required. Advanced upon any other com-
modity than land a man could demand what interest he
liked for his money, but money could only be lent upon
land at a fixed rate, namely five per cont..; the consequende
was the law ()berated most injuriously upon thi occupiers
of the soil. In the. case of personal security„you might
take any rate of interest you pleaaed,hut if anatlhnce in
money were made niacin the security of lankthe whole.
transaction was vitiated if you demanded and received more
than five per cent. *lnstead,- therefore; of injuring the land
the Chancellor of the exchequer was conferring a lasting
benefit upon it by assimilating the law of real property
with that of personal property, and one iftimehate effect
of this proposed change in the usury laws would, ba—to do
away w th many vekatioui Chancery suits which' arose out
of mortgages on land under the existing system.
Mr. SPOONER contended that the session was too far
advanced to admit of this queition being fairly discuised, but
it was hopeless for him or any other independent member
to think of successfully resisting the further "progress of
this bill. His great objection to the measure was; that it
would interfere with existing bargains, it would unjustly
press upon parties who had borrowed their money at fixed
rates of interest, and in the case of small mortgages be was
afraid it would be productive of great hardship. If that
difficulty could be got rid of, he could not see why money
should not be made as free as any other commodity, but as
no one could tell what would be the rate of interest after
this bill passed, he would much rather that it should be
deferred till another session, when some steps might be
taken to protect the interest of small mortgagors.
After a few words from Mr. HENLEY and ler. M`GnsGoß,
the amendment was negatived without a division, and the
house went into committee.

The clauses having been agreed to,
Mr. CAYLEY suggested that the bill should not be a
permanent one, but should be tried for some time as an
experiment..
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
having been-so-cautious heretofore, he reallyi thought the,
time had come fer taking some decisive step on this sub-
ject. (Hear, hear.) The object of the bill was to establish
freedom of trade with regard to money, and the House of
Lords having passed it without a division, he should be-
sorry to see the House of Commons come in and stop them
in that career. (Hear, hear.)
• KIBLIC HEALTH BILL.

The house having one into committee on this bill.
Sir W. MOLESWORTH, in reply to Mr. A. Pellatt,
stated that' the General Board of Health was constituted
as all other seeond.class departments were. It would con-
sist of a president, will), was to be responsible for the ad-
ministration of the board': Besides the president, there
was a certain number of ex-officio members. They were
not to share in the responsibility. Their use was this,
that in case of the indisposition or absence of the presi-
dent from London, they might do any Ministerial acts that
might be required. With regard to the question of public
drains, he could only say that they would not be under the
General Board of Health. As to the gentleman who
might be appointed president, he could not express any
opinion as to who he might be, but he hoped he would be
such a person as his hon. friend would approve.
Mr. EVELYN said that the last Public Health Act

consisted of 152 clauses, which were so contradictory that
it was difficult to understand them. All local acts ought
to be so plain that all persons could understand them.
Although there was a shadow of self•government the local
boards were really under tho centrol of the general board.
The schemes of thenld board were in many cases prepos-
terous. Nothing could be more absurd than the proposal
to supply water to London from the sand hills of Surrey.
Mr. MICHELL said that the bill gave the board thou
much power over the local officers. Another objection was
that it did not give power over the City ef London. The
deaths from cholera had increased froln `46-1e_133 last week.
He had no doubt the increase took plamilt•om this cause.

The mud and Aith:whiela was camel after rain was swept
up in heaps, where it was left to evaporate. When dry it,
became pulverised, and was again spread over the metro-'
polis. Now, evaporation could lot take place from those-
heaps without carryingwi th it malaripus filth. Some peo-
ple thought a dirty state of the streets was healthy.
(Laughter.) He was told by a -lady that fogs were godd.
for health, but he did not believe it. (Laughter.) In no
other city or metropolis except London were the streets
swept by beggars, not even ill Dublin, which was the land
of beggars. (Laughter.) Then,,again, -.the. graveyards in
the metropolis were most prejudicial to health. Westmin-
ster Hall and that house received such a swell from the
opposite graveyard of St. Margaret's that there was some-
times no bearing it. The state of thing was worst at night
and the untrapped gratings added to the evil. Any one
who walked over St. Margaret's might see holes for the rats
and dogs. He put his umbrella into some of them.
(Laughter,) He measured the size of some, and found
them to be eight inches .by 16. (Laughter.) This might
boa laiighing matter now, but they would not laugh when
the cholera' came home to them. On this very day there
were 19 deaths from cholera. The greatest number of
deaths occurred in the filthiest part of the town. He
felt it to be his duty to state these things to the house.
Sir G.,PECHELL was glad, the hon. doctor for Bodinin
—(laughter)—tha hon. member for Bodmin, had drawn the
attention ofcthe new board to the facts ho h&d.stated, for
notwithstanding the seeming .ignorance of the right hon.
gentleman, as• to the person who was to be appointed presi-
dent of tho'new board, he hoped he was now in the house,
and that he would benefit from the observations about ato
be made. VD hoped -he would discontinue the practice,
which was followed by the old board, of sending clown an
inspector to the towns to get up petitions in favour of the
application of the act. He hoped the new Board of Health
would not allow their effieers to fill their reports with such
rubbish as appeared. in the reports of the old board.
There was; he belieVed, an universal feeling in favour of
the passing of some such bill as that under copeideratiqn;
but he, for one, supported. this measure in the expecta-
tion that an itepery wouldiihortly take place with a view
to the avoidance of the evils incurred by the late board.
Mr. PHILLIPS said a.petition signed ,by one-tenth of
the inhabitants could" be got up in almost any, town in the
country, and in hie''opinion nine-tenths ought not to be
subject to such .a;minority.
Mr. COBBETT said in all the petitions he had seen com-
plaining of the conduet 'of the Board of Healtth,ein
thereact twasro -
a prayer for inquiry as, tO the mode of getting the
duced into the looality. On an occasion on which he pre-
sented a memorial to him, the right hon. baronet the Chief
Commiiisioner of Works caid he was against going into eu:
place
in opposition to a, bona fide petition from n rattjeeity:
of the rate-payers. He upped tbere.would be no invasion)
of that principle during the Beet year. " The ile ehould h
e.
thought, be an understandieg also isbat 'any.neve bill
might be introduced inOe next session with rowed to the
constitution of the Board of Health, should.be referred 1
a select'committee.. • • 0
Sir W. MOLESWLINITH said -he must remindtthe hon ,
gentleman ,that this was npt a bill to qjp.efiaci
Health Act, biit to reconstitute the Board 'of
was not desirable fer, him to attempt to Pledg-4 the
dent the future bevd. to,anyparticular course •but he
bPresl-
himself had acted on the principle of not sanctioning ti pro-
visional order if the majority of the inhabitante re
posed to it, and. ho haftne reason to .suppose fthat Zit
general, principle would be very much departed fiom., Any
bill which might be introduced next session would no
doubt be-referred to a committee up-stairs
Lord D. STUART, be believed that very unhealthy
exhalatio,ns arose from the water in some of the parks. In
particultie he was informed that on very still nights there
was a very unpleasant smell from the water of the Serpen-
tine; that the sentries.on duty often complained on the
subject, and that the inhabitants of the houses in the im-
mediate vicinity, in Bayswater and
a was Westminster,estminster,
urtlreer
frequently obliged to close their windows.
told that this smell was caused by a great quantity of nasty
mud which lay at the bottom of the water, and that the
evil might be removed by cleansing out the mud and in-
troducing fresh supplies of water in the form of a continu-
ous running stream.
Sir G. PECHELL was happy to be able to corroborate
who had been stated by the right hon. baronet (Sir Wm.
Molesworth) on the subject of the provisional order, so far
as Brighton was concerned.
Clauses 1 and 2 were then agreed to.
On_ clause 3, which assigns a salary of 2,0001. a year to
the president of the riew board,
Mr. HENLEY complained that, the amount was dispro-
portionately large, considering the duties to be performed.
Sir W. MOLESWORTEI said the president's tenure of
Moe would pot exteadbeyond that of the existingiVern-
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