The Sun.
London, England, 1853-02-16 00:00:00

the private opinions of an individual member of the
Government might be, they could in no degree operate
against the declared opinion of the colonists through
their Legislature. The right rev. prelate was mistaken
in the supposition that the Bishop of Quebec had been
taken by surprise in the matter. He (the Duke of
Newcastle) had availed himself of the earliest opportu-
nity of conveying to 'that prelate, who was now in Eng.
land, the intentions of the Government, and he had,
three weeks since, given the same intimation to Arch-
deacon Bethune, with the promise, in each case, to com-
municate the time at which the Government would
bring forward their measure, which promise had been
fulfilled. When that measure came before their lord-
ships in due course he should be fully prepared to satisfy
them, he believed, that it was a bill neither of confisca-
tion nor of sacrilege, The papers which the right rev.
prelate desired would be feadily produced. The first
named by the right rev, prelate was already on the
table of their lordships' house. Of another, the ex-
bat
nhe
been
nu
disposition
rh t
hot h
had
a rightdon reservedh r
ex-
tract from the colonial Gazette, there was no Dopy
at present in the Colonial-office, but a letter should be
immediately transmitted to danada for a copy. He
ies:-p.aprhtri
setloaotbpeei
opinion until
bnuoa
snttt
e.becteahnue s perfectly
flee cwhtaasl
had
candid in his statement, but lie attributed that, not to
been before their lordships. He
not so well acquainted with the facts lie would have
lloiandlil'eceived oily y s-
tenrday e- sp a letter
subjectigh t
i.efrv.ompretlhaete i
hs he e
wasp o f lv oee nr
adr eetdeure
to on
that the
r
treal ; but, having considered it with all the attention
theless bound to say, 'that in it he found assertions he
could not admit, and arguments it would, on a future
(occasion, be his duty to confute. The right rer. prelate)
the Bishop of Exeter) had spoken of the proposed mea-
sure of the Government as sacrilege. That was a charge
of so grave a nature, that, however anxious he was not
to enter into the details of the measure, he felt bound at
once to say he could not recognise its truth or justice.
If this measure were sacrilege, what was the act of
1840 ? The Government did net propose to deal with
the clergy reserves as they were dealt with in 1840,
transferring from one body to another the arbitrary dis-
position of the property ; but assuming that it wen% the
whole length the right rev. prelate contended for, and
that the reserves were applied to secular purposes, he
would ask the right rev, prelate what was the character
of the act of 1840, which he had supported Sacrilege
could not be a question of degree. If a man broke
into a church and stole some plate, ,he would be equally
guilty of sacrilege whether he only took a small quan-
tity or more. But what did the right rev, bench do in
1840 ? He did not attack them for it, but there
must .be consistency in this matter. They supported
an act which took away from the Church of Eng-
land a large portion of the clergy reserves, and it
was applied, not to the purposes of other creeds or forms
of Christianity, but to secular purposes. (Hear.) But
he went further, and asked what were all
the preceding
acts that had passed upon this question since 1791 ?
What had been the course taken by the Legislature of
Canada, and the recommendations sent out by the
Governments of this country! Had they been guilty of
sacrilege ? What did Sir J. Pakington say ? He said
he was prepared to deal with this question—that circum-
stances had occurred, such as emigration and others,
which made it necessary to have a redistribution of
these funds, necessarily taking a part from the Church
of England; and he was therefore just as guilty
of sacrilege as the present Government would be if they
had proposed to hand over the whole of these funds to
secular purposes. Upon this subject, so far as the
Church was concerted, and any religious dues were
involved in this measure, it was as between the present
and the late Government a mere question of degree.
But as regarded the measure itself upon the most im-
portant view—namely, the colonial view, it was a matter
not of degree, but of principle. The whole question
was this—was it to be a colonial or imperial question ?
Were they to follow •ut to its true legitimate
conclusion the principle of not merely a repre-
sentative but a responsible Govern-went, or to
deprive the colony of the full benefit of that responsible
Government and thereby to leave it in an ano-
malous position The right rev, prelate had said
that the question had been considered as settled in
1840. The late Government had not so considered it.
The Bishop of Quebec and other bishops of Canada in 1846
applied for a different arrangement of these reserves ; they
wished to reppen the question, though undoubtedly for the
benefit of the Church. They who claimed the finality of the
settlement of 1840 wished to reopen the question in 1846.
How then could they say in 1846 it was not settled as
to part, and 'yet that it was closed as to the whole in
1853 ? He thought that when their lordships came to
consider this question they would arrive at the conclu-
sion with him that upon purely and strictly colonial
views it ought to be settled at once, and in the way pro.
posed by the Government. The right rev. prelate had
spoken of the effect it would have on the coronation
oath ; but he thought their lordships would see, when
this bill came to be printed, that the Queen would have
the same power of veto she now had, and that in no way,
as he conceived, was the coronation oath affected by it.
The right rev, prelate had also entered into a comparison
of the Church of Rome and the Church of England, in
Canada. Upon some future occasion he would enter
into the question ; but he could assure the right rev-
prelate that, whatever might be, and he believed it to
begreatly exaggerated—the wealth of the Roman Catho-
lic Church in Canada, that Church would stand on pre-
cisely the same footing as to being dealt with by the
Canadian Legislature as the clergy reserves under this
measure. The right rev. prelate had spoken of the
Roman Catholic endowments in Canada, as though they
had been settled by acts of Parliament which were about
to be left on tho statute-book, while the clergy reserves
were disturbed. But the Roman Catholic Church stood
on a much weaker foundation. If the right rev. prelate
would refer to the treaty of Quebec, he would find that
the treaty tended to confirm little more than perfect
freedom of worship to the Roman Catholics of Canada ;
and as to the very instance put by the right rev. pre-
late—that of the corporation of ,St. Sulpice--what was
its title ? It was not confirmed by treaty, but was so
weak that a Canadian !ordinance was passed, and
it was under that its possessions was now held.
Again, what had the Legislature already done as
to the Roman Catholic endowments ? They con-
sisted in one form of tithes, but they were not payable
by all classes of the communion—(hear, hear), and so
strictly was that the case, that if a man changed his
religion he became exonerated from the payment by the
mere fact of such change. Moreover, in Upper Canada
the tithes had been abolished ; and in consequence of
that, as he believed, the Governor of Canada had con-
ferred on the Roman Catholic Church a grant out of
the clergy reserves ; and under that grant the Roman
Catholic Church was receiving 1,6001. a-year. That
Church, therefore; stood upon precisely the same footing
as the Church of England. There had been an amount
of mystification and misrepresentation upon this subject
which he hoped by discussion in that and the other
house of Parliament would be removed ; and he con-
fidently anticipated thit the right rev. bench, viewing
this measure not abstractedly as affecting the Church
of England alone, but as a great national concern,
would regard it as one of the greatest advantages to the
Church in Canada. As to the Legislature of the United
States never altering any endowments of this kind, he
doubted much whether in all instances they had adhered
to that rule. In one of the greatest States of the Union
he believed that the endowment of the Church was now
held by an Unitarian body, though, generally speak-
ing, the endowments of the Church of England had
been respected in the United States of America,
and ho gathered from that precedent this example
and warning,—that if they trusted men with their
own concerns, and placed these matters within the
jurisdiction to which they belonged, they would
be more inclined to respect previous engagements
and old settlements than if they were disturbed by
long agitation and repeated contests. So strong was
his conviction that they could only act upon the clear
and defined principle of colonial freedom upon all pea-
tions connected with the internal administration of their
own affairs—(hear' hear)--that he should be prepared,
without reference to the result, to take the course the
Government were now about to pursue ; but at the same
time he must say he was confident a great deal would
depend, as regarded the future issue of this question, on
the course, the conciliatory course, apart from all bias
and party feeling, from all that irritation which, unfor-
tunately, frequently arose upon any question in which
the religious feeling of the country was involved, taken
upon it by that and the other house of Parliament when
it came before them for consideration. (Hear.)
The Earl of DESART, after expressing his regret at
the absence of a noble earl who had been most anxious
to be present at the discussion of this subject, in which.
he took the greatest interest, said that, as an individual,
he tendered his thanks to the right rev. prelate for hay-
ing brought the subject before their lordships, as it was
most important the public should be made sensible of
what he must consider as a great blow to Protestantism
in Canada, and he said that the more advisedly, inas-
much as the Canadian Legislature had made no secret
of their intention to divert these lands from ecclesias-
tical purposes. The noble duke was right in saying
that Sir J. Pakington had been open to consider any
proposals the Canadians might have made as to the
redistribution of the clergy reserves, for he considered
the settlement of 1840 was only final in appropriating
the proceeds of those reserves to ecclesiastical pur-
poses, and thought most justly that the Canadianpeople could best judge in what way those funds should
be applied. There was one point which he thought was
not well understood by the public. It was oorethot
by many that the great majority, or almost the
population of Canada, were in favour of the abrogation
that was
of the settlement of 1840. He did not think
the case. On the contrary, he found that among the
members returned by Upper Canada---and, after all, it
I
was those members who must.m.l my be considered, for
those of Lower Canada
wereßoman Catholics and
in the maintenane
French people, and had neinterest
had
increased from
two to four, and also h
of the clergy reserves—the minority
_
that that minority was actually
numbert of constituents than the
majority of the Legislature—the minority having received
upwards of 24,000 votes, and the majority only 13,500.
The right rev. prelate said that this was an agitation of
three or four years, and he thought that was true ; but
the agitation about these funds was the very reason that
forced the se of 1840, and
settlementprompted the Cana-
dian
Parliament to pass a bill placing the disposal of
the funds in the Imperial Parliament, because they could
not settle it themselves, and were anxious it should be
finally settled one way or other, and in 1846, Mr. Price
upon the question being again raised by the Bishop of
Quebec, said he was unwilling to disturb the settlement
of 1840, which had proved so satisfactory and so advan.
tageous to the good feeling of the people of Canada. He
must say the people of Canada might justly complain of
being taken by surprise, for, although agitation was rife,
it had been met by a refusal en the part of the GOvern.
meat, except to reconsider the redistribution of the funds
for ecclesiastical purpose, and that nothing would Jaya