The Sun.
London, England, 1853-02-23 00:00:00

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SUN OFFICE, Seven o'clock.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT

_ .
HOUSE OF COMMONS—(THIS EVENING.)
THE COUNTY RATES BILL.
(Continued from our First 'Edition.)
Sir J. PAKINGTON had listened with great satisfaP-
tion to what had fallen from the noble lord. In offering
a few observations on the subject, he would implore the
house and the noble lord to bear in mind what was really
the animus of this bill. He could not conceal from him-
self that the animus of this bill was to strike a blow at
the magistracy of England. The noble lord might not
be aware of the vote come to last year in a discussion on
the same subject. Tlie hon. member for Manchester
brought in a bill last year differing from the present only
inasmuch as it dispensed with the services of the magis-
Iracy altogether, and after some discussion the house re-
jected that bill. In consequence of that rejection, the
right hon. gentlemen has brought in the present mea-
' sure, anii he had stated that his object was to proceed by
instalments to supersede the magistracy, and he had re-
sorted to two fallacies, which he had repeated year after
year until perhaps he believed them himself. He was
glad that the noble lord had detected those fallacies.
The first was, that the great principle that taxation
should' only, be impoged by one's own representatives
was 'revoked by this bill. The second fallacy was an
invidious one—it placed the magistracy on one side
nd the .ratepayers on the other. (Hear, hear.)
was not disposed to oppose the second reading, but
t 6 reserved to himself the power to take the gravest ob-
jection to all the most important provisions of the bill.
rt He thought that a bill of such a, magnitude ought to be
tskeil up by the Government, and not be carried forward
by a private member. (Hear, hear.) In his opinion
it would be most impolitic and unwise to deprive
mates
of their existing powers, seeing that they
wi*ul the slightest emolument, discharged many
heavy and onerous duties with great honour to them-
selves and credit to the country. Though he was always
an advocate for the Boards of Guardians, he viewed with
great dread their being converted into local councils for
th transaction of matters entirely foreign to the duties
-plgscribed for them by the Poor Law Act.
Sir G. GREY entirely concurred in the course taken
by the noble viscount the Secretary of State for the
Home Department. He declared now, as be had done
before, that it was in his opinion desirable for the satis-
faction of ratepayers, that the representative principle
shduld be applied to the election of the boards charged
. with the administration of the financial affairs of coun-
ties ; he had stated 'so much in reference to a former bill
•- • of the hon. member for Manchester when he was in
office in 1851. He had no doubt that if the amend-
ment proposed by the noble .viscount were introduced
into the bill at would be greatly improved, and would
stand a great chance of passing the house.
Mr. HENLEY urged the necessity on the part of the
executive of not allowing any interference with the ma-
gistrates in the management of prisons and lunatic asy-
lums. He objected to turning boards of guardians into
- elecitoral councils, that being a principle which was quite
new and foreign to our constitution. If the financial
~boards were to be elected, it would be- much better to
, . ~7place their elected in the hands of the •rate-payers than
, tcklitrust it to the guardians. He hoped the Govern-
ment would take charge of the bill, and put it in a shape
more likely to meet the approval of the house.
Mr. BAINES explained that the proceedings of the
. new financial boards. would be entirely public, a clause
having. been introduced into the bill expressly for that
purpose.
Mr. BARROW said he approved of the bill, though
he had no wish to interfere with the executive power of
the magistrates. It had been said that the bill would
deprive them of their ancient rights, but not one of the
powers proposed to be conferred on the financial boards
was given to them by the commission of the peace ; they
were conferred upon them by driblets, because there
was no machinery in existence by which the rate-payers
could elect financial boards. That machinery was, how-
ever, now supplied by the boards of guardians. He was
not indisposed to consent to some amendments being
'made in the bill, but he trusted the principle would not
be so flitted away in committee as to render the bill
almost inoperative when it passed into law.
Mr. T. B. SMITH supported the bill.
Mr. PACKE went at some length into the details of
the bill, and pointed out the ill effects it would have'
upon many parts of county administration, particularly
the management of lunatic asylums.
' Mr. WHALLEY thought the present bill would
benefit the county magistracy in the opinion of the
ratepayers, by removing from them all those imputa-
tions which most undeservedly now rested on them. •
Mr. HUME thought that the bill ought to be in the
hands of the Government. Its effect would be to place
the ratepayers in the counties in the same condition as
the ratepayers in boroughs were placed by the Reform

Mr. PACKE thought that to place the ratepayers in
some of the western counties in the same condition as
the ratepayers in small towns would be the greatest in-
jury which could be inflicted upon them.'
After a few words from Mr. M. GIBSON, who ex-
pressed his acquiescence in the proposition of the Go-
vernrilent, the bill was read a second time, and ordered
to be committed pro tormel on Friday.
COURTS OF COMMON LAW (IRELAND) BILL.
This bill went through committee pro forma.
MAYNOOTH COLLEGE.—ADJOURNED
DEBATE.

Mr. FAGAN op ed the adjourned debate. He con
sidered that the pritcirea,l object in renewing this discus-
sion was to riii6 alive the violent religious spirit which
had been aviliktned in this country by the hon. gentleman
the member ter North Wirwickshire, assisted by the
Late Government, with: a viewiep. influencing the deci-
sion of Irish election petitions, which would shortly be
before the honse, 'and in which accusations were made
against Roman Catholic priests of interfering with the
elections by means of ifitimidation. The honourable
gentleman then proceeded to animadvert at some length
upon the penal laws of former times, and the corruption
of late times, which he contended had been unable to
destroy the Roman Catholic faith, which was still the
national religion of Ireland. Although he would prefer
to see the Roman Catholic religion independent of the
Government, yet still he thought it was the duty of
every Government to see that the clergy of its
subjects were maintained, and the means of
education provided. On this ground he had
always supported the Queen's College, and still
r4ore the grant to Maynooth. The college of Maynooth
'was founded in the year 1795, in the midst of the French
revolution, and though so many reasons had been given
for it, he believed that the real reason was political, to
prevent the Irish youth destined for the priesthood from
being sent to France and imbibing French doctrines.
The final settlement had been made by Sir R. Peel, and
with that settlement Ireland remained contented until it
it was disturbed by the hon. member for North War-
wickshire. The arguments which the hon. member had
used to urge for the abolition of this grant, if carried out,
must lead to the discontinuance of all Protestant mis-
sions and establishments in our oolonies and in foreign
countries. The hon. member evidently had not read the
report of the committee of 1827, because in every line of
it was contained a refutation of his arguments. . The
hon, gentleman had relied greatly upon his quotations
frorn Bellarmine and Thomas Aquinas ; but the hon.
gentleman ought to know that the doctrines laid down
.1-,y those writers, with regard to the point for which the
hon. gentleman quoted them, were repudiated and dis-
avowed by all the Catholic universities, and all thinking
Catholics. The hon. gentleman said that the Roman
Catholic religion was subversive of liberty; but he would
ask on what side' had Irish Roman Catholic members
always been found if not on the side of civil and religi-
gious liberty ? The hon. gentleman then found fault
with the dispensing power of the Roman Catholic reli-
gion to relieve from oaths. Why, he had taken the
trouble to collate the opinions of Roman Catholic and
Protestant divines on this point, and he found that they
•were exactly the same, namely; that the dispensing
power was limited always by the law of nature. With
regard to the order of Jesuits, he believed that no body
of men had done more than that order for the civil and
religious liberties of the world, and it was for that rea-
sc,n that the Sovereigns of Europe had persecuted that
-order. He hoped that 'the hon. gentleman's motion
would be rejected by a large majority—that it might be
mashed for ever.
Mr. A. MILLS said he should support the motion,
because he believed that the Ronian Catholic system was
calculated to ruin and destroy the social resources of
every country which adopted it. This was the real rea-
-5K30.11 why the English constituencies had so strong a reel:
nig ppon this matter, and not from any religious motives.
_ M.r •J. BALL wished to direct the attention of the
house to the answer to this motion which their own
archives contained. There were reports in the library
which refuted all the statements which the hon. member
for North Warwickshire had made, and he could not but
regret that this motion had been proposed. • The lan-
guage .which accompanied its introduction was most un-
called' for. It was justly offensive to the Roman Catho-
lics of the house, and he could not help feeling that the
hop. member for North Warwickshire ought to have
been called to order when he used it. 11 warned the
house that these.discussions could have lio good object,
indeed they-'were calculated strongly to create disaffec-
trail in krulatid. The parties who were now spending
their days in a penal settlement for treason committed
in 'lreland, never used half so many invectives to seai_
tien ,as they heard from the hon. member for North
Warwickshire last night. The authorities of Maynooth
did, not object to an inquiry being instituted into their
system, but•what they complained of was the manner in
which this, motion, and others similar to it,' were made.
The late Government profited very largely by the anti-
Maynooth cry, and before this debate closed, he hoped
some of the members of that Government would favour
the house with their opinions upon this
motion. The establishment of the gran t was
received •by Ireland as a disposition on the
part of the British Legislature to deal graciously
with her ; atil when the late Sir Robert Peel suc-
ceeded in carrying the measure, Ireland was not want-
ing in suppling" manifestations of her gratitude. But,
in questions of this sort a wpetual display of gratitude
Vas quite uncalled for, when this grant was
Fa'
ca. it4Lsoe:frlidui
twc
ti
caves. conceded not 'as re nark of favoui but an
AIDIKE said, the honour and good faith- of
eount ry
the
,e was4ledge'd to the continuance of this grant,
unss it could ar: 4 shown
that' # had been grossly mis=
lied , or willulty abused. r o proof, however, of
such naisapplic ' ion or abuse :a 'yet come before them,

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