The Sun.
London, England, 1854-07-04 00:00:00

wait reland conciiiated ? He would let 1848 and the ont-

rages which preceded and followed it answer the ques-
tion. Had it even conciliated the Roman Catholics

here ? The abominable assumption of titles by Roman
Catholic ecclesiastics was the reply. At that time the
Roman Catholics rose like one man—(oh, oh)—to defy
the law. If the Government intended properly to go-
vern Ireland, they should govern it in such a way that
Irishmen should be on equality with the rest of the
kingdom. (Cheers- from the Irish memlrrs) Hon.
eqia.lity. (Hear,
members cheered when he spoke of
hear.) He was sorry indeed that the religion of Roman
Catholics condemned Parliament to impose restraints
upon them—(a laugh)—it was not the fault of the legis-
ture, it was the fault of those to whom Roman Catholics
gave blind allegiance. He was astonished that the
noble lord the President of the Council (Lord J. Russell)
should take the course he had upon this question, stand-
ing as he did in opposition to the whole weight of public
opinion. As to the plea of the necessity of finding a
place for educating priests, he would point out to the
house that it was said in Irish newspapers that 50,0001.
had been subscribed for a Free Irish Roman Catholic
University. He said to the Roman Catholics, why did
not they build this university and send their priests
there to be educated ? By that means they would get
rid of all these questions at once; they would then have
no annual or other discussion.
Mr. HEYWORTH disapproved of the manner in
which this question was brought on. Had the hon.
--ember (d r. Spooner) brought on a motion directly
censuring the grant to Maynooth, he should have had
his (Mr. Heyworth's) vote, but as it was he should vote
against him.
Mr. GARDNER should vote for the hon. gentleman
who moved this resolution, although he felt very indig•
nant at the speech with which he had proposed it, the
reason of his support being that he objected to all grants
whatever for religious purpeses. (Hear, hear.) He
thought that the hon. members for Warwickshire were
instruments raised up by Providence for the destruction
of the Protestant Church as by law established. (Laugh-
ter, and hear.) He was surprised that the two hon.
gentlemen did not see how absurd their, remarks were
when the state of Ireland—with a Church Establishment,
which it did not want, forced upon it—was considered.
For his own part, nothing but the secularisation of the
Irish Church revenues would satisfy him, and he be-
lieved that many hon. members thought with him, and
that the day was not far distant when statesmen would
think so too.

. The question was then put in the usual manner, and
the house called for a division. The sand-glass was
accordingly turned, in order to mark the time allowed
for members to arrive in the house. The sand was nearly
run out when _

Mr. BUTT rose, but his voice was instantly drowned
in cries of "Divide."
The SPEAKER said that he had not long since inti-
mated to the house that great inconvenience occurred
through hon. gentlemen rising just as the sand was run
out, and had intimated an opinion that it would be bet-
ter, when once the glass was turned, to consider the de-
bate closed. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. BUTT again rose, but was immediately assailed
with such vehement cries of " Divide," " Oh," and
" Chair," that he did not attempt to speak, apparently
considering—and not without reason—that hon. gentle-
men would speedily weary themselves into silence. At
length
Mr. DRUMMOND rose to order. He wished to un-
derstand whether, by the statement which had been
made from the chair, it was to be considered a rule that
the debate was closed when the sand-glass was turned.
The SPEAKER said that the rule had never been
_ _

actually laid down in so many words, but when he called
attention to the matter on a preceding occasion, his view
seemed to meet with the general assent of the house.
Mr. BUTT again rose, and.. after a time succeeded in
obtaining a hearing. He considered that he was strictly
in order in rising to address the house ; at the same
time, after what had fallen from Mr. Speaker, he would
not stand upon what he believed to be his strict rights.
He had not been present when the intimation to which
reference had been made from the chair was given, and
hence he was in entire ignorance of such an understand-
ing ever having existed. (Cheers.) He trusted that this
explanation would be satisfactory to the house. (Cheers.)
Under any circumstances he would not have taken the
course he had, had he not hoped that some member of
the Government, even at the last moment, would address
the house. (Cheers.)
The house then divided—
For Mr. Spooner's motion
Against it
Majority .--16
The result was received with loud cheers

SUPPLY. ----
The house then went into a committee of supply.
The following votes were agreed to :-
3,8751. for the University of London.
7.7101. for Universities in Scotland.
300/, for the Royal Irish Academy.
3001. for the Royal Hibernian Academy.
Upon the vote of 2,6001. for theological professors at
Belfast.

Mr. WILLIAMS was not satisfied with this vote, in-
asmuch as he had understood that those allowances
were all to have been merged.
Mr. BRIGHT stated that when the question of the
Irish Regium Donnm came on he intended to take the
sense of the committee against it. The present vote
was only an offshoot of it, but as it would be better to
take the discussion vn the main question, he did not
now make any objection, and be trusted his hon. friend
(Mr. Williams) would also allow the vote to pass. There
was the more reason for doing so as even if the decision
of the committee should be against the Regiuni Donum,
Government would not like to refuse it this year though
they might do so hereafter.
The vote was then agreed to.
2,259/, was granted for the Queen's University in Ire-
land.

On the British Museum vote, 55,255/.,
Mr. A. PELLATT complained of the public being re-
stricted to three days a week for a lmission to this insti-
tution. The excuse was that it was necessary to give two
days a week to the students, but he believed the attend-
ance of students was comparatively small.
Mr. J. BALL expressed a hope that the question of
the management of the Museum would be considered by,
the Government, and that a radical reform of the existing
system, which was replete with abuses, would result. It
was not to be supposed that the 37 gentlemen who man•
aged the Museum were enabled to devote that attention
to the subject which was necessary, and the few on whom
the management practically devolved, however talented
they might be, did not always arrive at such decisions
as were calculated to increase the efficiency of the insti-
tution. He complained especially of the refusal of the
trustees to avail themselves of the offer of two valuable
collections of English antiquities, notwithstanding the
paucity of English antiquities in the Museum. He sug-
gested that the institution should be under the control of
some officer of Government, who should be responsible.
Mr. J. G. PHILLIMORE drew attention to the fact
that a great many of the most valuable works in the li-
brary of the Museum were still in MS., and instanced
those of Wicliffe.
Mr. GEACH saw no more reason why the Museum
should not be opened to the public six days in the week
Lan the Crystal Palace.
Mr. W. J. FOX concurred in the suggestion, but with
a reservation that artists pursuing their studies at the
Museum should be enabled to do so at hours when they
would not be interrupted by the general public. He had
heard it complained that the students of industrial art,
for whom lectures had been provided in Jermyn-street,
had not ready access to articles in the Museum to which
reference was made in those lectures, and suggested

that some arrangement should be made to obviaie this

inconvenience. He also urged the importance of open-
ing the reading room at night, for the convenience of
those young men who were engaged during the day in
their ordinary avocations.
14r- JAMES M'GREGOR expressed a hope that
'ter facilities would be given for the admission of the
public.

After a few words from Mr. BELL,
Mr' wilzoisT cculd assure the house from a con-
versation he had had With the right hon. member for
Cambridge (Mr.
rs,
questioncilities tho owsre)p weekaeo, that the
practicable to Safford greater
fa the far'
ulltwas public for visiti the Museum had en-
gaged the attention of then tess,
Mr. EWART regretted that tbe.Forsyth collection of
red.
Saxon antiquities had not been
He thought,
however, that the system :mere
trustees, who, being many of them oferCl'
high and important offices, had not tlisl
to blame than.
_the
devoting that amount of time and aenr°rtunity of
Persons, holding
nagement of the Museum which was neck to the ma-
Lord SEYMOUIt stated that the decisiroY•s reject
the
the collection in question had been come to bny
tees, at a full meeting, after the most mature cositarns-
tion, it having been postponed in order that there mil:hei
be a full attendance. Considering the amount the
e.
tees had at their disposal this question of purchasing col-
lections of antiquities was one of great difficulty. The
antiquities of every part of the world had its admirers.
One society blamed them for not buying up all the
mediaeval antiquities they could get, neglecting all others.
Another was for those of Greece or Rome only ; a
third for the Nineveh collection ; others were for
the Anglo-Saxon ; and some again for American
'antiquities. Every country and every age furnished
its claims, and every class of antiquities had
its special advocates. Now it was obviously impossible
for the trustees, with the limited sum they had at their
command, to meet all those demands, and the only ques-
tion was how they could best secure those which it was
most desirable the country should possess. Some collec-
tions, as those of Greece and Asia Minor, unless they
were purchased by the trustees for the Museum, would,
in all probability, be lost to the nation altogether ;
whereas others, as those of this country, if refused by
the Museum, would be likely to find a place in some
provincial museum—as was_ i
the case
ces'ilection. He did not think, if the with the Forsyth
matter were left to
my one person appointed for the purpose, the decision
would have been different.
After a few words from Mr. J. BALL and Mr. EWART,
Mr. 81NN-skIRD expressed a hope that the library of
the British I\Juseuni would be opened in the evening, for
the benefit of y
,fr men who could not attend at any
other time. - "r'
Lord SEYMOUR said the question of opening the
library in the evenings had been frequently mooted. It
Bmust be remembered, however, that the library of the
ritish Museum was different from a common lending
brary. Its real value was not for persons who wanted
to read the common books of the day, or of the last fifty
years. There was scarcely
any work of science,
tory, or of memoirs in Europe, which had not
of his-
derived
benefit from it. It should, therefore, be most open to
renders of that class who came there to compile works,
and who wanted assistance from books which were not
Of ready access elsewhere. There ought to be other me-
tropolitan libraries of common books, where people
could read when they pleased ; but to adroit persons