The Sun.
London, England, 1853-05-31 00:00:00

on a former occasion on the assurance of the right hon.
gentleman that such a clause should be introduced—(hear,
hear)—and now the right hon. gentleman was going to pass
the- bill without any such provision. (Hear.) In the
English act there was such a clause—(hear)—and if the
right hon. gentleman meant it to be different in Ireland,
he (Mr. Butt) would certainly divide against It. (Hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, the
English act did not provide that which the hon. and learned
gentleman imagined, and the present act placed the Irish
tradesman in precisely the same position as the English.
The act provided that the parties might, if they pleased,
be assessed originally by Government officers.
The clauses were negatived, and the bill was then about
to be reported, when
Lord LOVAINE rose to make some observations, which,
however, were inaudible, but their purport appeared to be
some complaint as to a hardship upon the farmer regarding
the mode of assessing his profits.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER Proposed
that the noble lord should communicate with him upon the
subject.
The house resumed.

• CUSTOMS ACTS.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved that
the house go into committee on these acts.
The house being accordingly in committee,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER proposed
the resolutions of the 13th of May, as to the new tariff of
duties on minor articles, the enumeration of which created
some merriment.
At the word " cables,"
Mr. MITCHELL rose to offer same remarks, though he
slid not oppose the reduction.
Mr. DISRAELI said several gentlemen wished to make
remarks upon particular reductions.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, con-
sidering the lateness of the hour (nearly twelve), he should
postpone all those articles.
Lord J. MANNERS said there was a class of articles,
producing an appreciable amount of revenue, for the reduc-
tion of the duties upon which no reason had been assigned,
and to which, therefore, he objected.
. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER proposed
to postpone such items.
When the CHAIRMAN came to the item of tea,
Mr. DISRAELI asked whether the right hon. gentleman
was prepared to give the committee any infcrmation with
respect to the state of China ? If not, he thought. it would
be better to postpone this important item. (Hear, hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER had not
anticipated any opposition, and this was one of the items,
the postponement of which would be productive of the
most inconvenience. At any subsequent stage he should
he happy to afford any information which might be re-
quired.

Mr. DISRAELI had always found that " subsequent
statements" made very little impression upon public opinion.
(Hear, hear.) The tea duties had hitherto been only inci-
dentally referred to by the right hon. gentleman, and he
should certainly like to have some estimate of the supposed
increased consumption, to be derived from the remission,
and some information with regard to China.
Mr. It. PALMER referred to the hardship of depriving
the retail tea-dealer of the 1 lb. draft on tea.
Mr. MOFFATT said it had been his intention to move
an alteration in a certain part of the resolution affecting
the tea duties, but he had since been induced to waive his
objection. The arrangement as to the withdrawal of the
1 lb. draft had, with, he believed, the general concurrence
of the trade, been left in the hands of the Chancellor of th
Exchequer.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it was
proposed that all the tea which shall have been reported
(that was the technical term) to the Custom-house before
the sth July should have the benefit of the draft, but that
from that time it should cease.
Mr. DISRAELI again reminded the committee that
they were called upon to consider a very important item
—(Lear)—which would affect the revenue to the extent of
3,000,0001. He thought the Chancellor of the Exchequer
bound not only to pronounce his mature opinion as to the
probable increase in the consumption, but also to state his
opinion as to whether the state of China, whence we
received news by every packet, would affect the increased
supply of the article. It was not doing justice to their
coustitnents to permit such an important item to pass in
silence. (Hear.) When the proposition was made by the
late Government to deal with the tea duty—the first pro-
'osition of the kind ever made in the House of CoMmons—
they also proposed to reduce the duty on an -article of
British. ;growth which came into competition with tea.
(Hear.) Without u.ore particularly referring to malt,
hosever, it was known to every gentleman in the com-
mittee that the consumption of malt had been diminishing
in this country. Hon. gentlemen opposite had always con-
teniled that tea had becOMe the substitute for the home
article. Now, the Government were proposing to make a
real reduction on the article of tea, but none on the article
of home growth. (Hear.) But, at that hour (one o'clock),
he trusted the• right hon, gentleman would not proceed
further, but appoint an early and more convenient oppor-
tunity for discussing the question. (Hear, hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was not
aware that there was any doubt in thd minds of the com-
mittee as to whether they should proceed with the tea
duty. The evening had been consumed in a discussion on
the income tax, and he had now to choose between making
a speech or endeavouring to pass an important item, the
suspension of which would cause great inconvenience to
the trade. He believed that in his first financial speech
he had stated the substance of the views Of the Govern-
ment on everything with which they proposed to deal in
the- budget. He had stated on the former occasion, what
'repented now, namely, that the state of China was such,
as to inspire some apprehension and discomfort with re-
gard to the future supply of tea ; but that the information
was not of such a kind as to lead the Government to with-
hold this great and beneficial change. The right hon.
gentleman (Mr. Disraeli) had himself, to his honour, almost
placed this question beyond the possibility of retreat ; and
after the measures taken by the merchants of this country,
consequent upon. the late budget in this respect, little dis-
cretion was left to the present Government in the matter.
Mr. MASTERMAN, as one much mixed up with the
commercial world, and knowing how much was at stake,
trusted that the time of the committee might not be con-
sumed unnecessarily, but that hon. gentlemen would con-
fine themselves to short speeches. _ _ _

Mr. DISRAELI observed that if the hon. member had
been a teetotaller—(a laugh)—which he knew him not to
be—(laughter)—ho could not have made a better speech in
favour of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. (Hear.) If
it was to be laid down that the proposal of the minister to
make reductions in the tariff was to be received in silence,
why was it brought before Parliament at all ? (Hear.) Why
not settle the affair at the Board of Trade, or by order in
council? (Hear.) If, as the Chancellor of the Exchequer
stated, he had given the requisite information in his first
speech, he must have proceeded upon very slender infor-
mation, for he had not given an estimate of the increased
consumption. Since that speech there had been three arri-
vals from China, and the important news had not arrived
when he delivered it. He therefore made the reasonable
request that this resolution should be now postponed, to
he brought on again on some early day—the first on which
they: should again meet, if the right hon. gentleman pleased.
Lord J. RUSSELL thought that all were agreed as to
the propriety of making a re,uission in the tea duties. He
was of opinion that the material interests concerned were
of- far greater importance than any speeches which could
be made on this subject. Of course, it was matter of con-
jecture and speculation what would be the amount of the
increase, and how the state of China would affect the sup-
ply. The noble lord said it was a mistake to suppose that
the Chancellor of the Exchequer had not touched on this
subject, and he quoted a passage from Mr. Gladstone's
speech containing an estimate of the anticipated con-
sumption. The insurrection did not appear to have inter-
fered with the pursuits of industry, and they had not now
the reasons which had some time rtgo led them to appre-
hend that the success of the insurrection would materially
interfere with the commerce of the country. (Hear.) Of
course no minister would be bold enough to say what
course the insurrection in China might take. The ques-
tion was, did the right hon. gentleman mean to oppose the
resolutions ? If he did, the Government would postpone
them, but if he did not, he hoped the committee would
agree to them.
,Mr. DISRAELI thought the noble lord had treated his
observations in a very disingenuous spirit. (Hear, hear.)
He did not think he was bound, to state whether he would
oppose the particular motion before the house. (Hear,
hear; and a laugh.) He heard the unseemly interruption
from., the hon. member opposite, and for which the hon.
rueniber was supereminent. (A laugh.) The noble lord
had stated that he could not tell what was taking place in
Chino. It was difficult to know what was taking place in
Constantinople. (Cheers.) But of course the Government
had taken steps to obtain the best information on the sub-
j ect of the tea duties. The late Government, before they
dealt with this important subject, endeavoured to obtain
from the best sources the best information they could.
The Roble lord said that the Chancellor of the Exchequer
had given the house all the information necessary. But
the right hon. gentleman had never offered to the house
any estimate of the increased consumption. How many
millions of pounds did the right hon. gentleman expect
the increase to be ?

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
the answer was involved in a plain arithmetical calcula-
tion.

Mr. DISRAELI—That might be the case • but it was
dear the right hon. gentleman had not stated calcula-, .
tion to the house. It ought to be put to the house in a fair
and business-like manner. Both the noble lord and the
right hon. gentleman had admitted that but for the late
hour and the pressure of business it would be convenient
to make such a statement. (Hear.) That was a vindication
of the course which he was taking. (Hear.) The noble.
lord had asked him whether he meant to oppose the mo-
tion, and said that he had made a similar proposal. That
was not a fair statement. Though he had proposed a
remission of the tea duties that would ultimately be as
extensive as the present,, still the noble lord could not
forget that remission was to take place in a greater number
of years. The noble lord must also agree that the circum-
stances of China since then were such as ought not to en-
courage them to make any diminution of the period during
which the remission should take place. If they had pro-
.posed that the term should be five or six years, the last
news from China would have . justified such a proposal.
-That was a fair .subject of discussion, and an opportunity
.vitiould have been given him of stating the reasons and the
views under which the late Government brought forward
their proposal, so that the country might determine as to
VOA. was the fairest course. (Hear, hear.) This was not
the first time they had been so treated in these discus-
%ions
hon.6(nlittar, hear.) The financial propositions of the right
• Both theutorinhad never been discussed except by accident.
delay. ,the e lord and the right hon. gentleman deprecated
it. They They said that the public interest would suffer by
that the conversion
`p4.tock into Twe.at of Three per Cent.
-tool; was
a matter 01-Half and Throe-and-a-Half per Cent.
oievier
tonth,
were
isuch passing importance,
d. that the Ex-
could be allowe(i.iltnicli high favour, that no discussion
we took by a laugh, ,nr.ttel*.) We were met in the course
e corner opposite
?trona front an obscur y - inc ignan
1, another thee b^n• 1. t
.61 not know i 'what I
e_ lad pa,„d • (Rear, hear.) He
fled the extreme Precipitancy
of
..on those questions justi-
,liscussion. (Hear, hear.) Ai i .1111i.es nti
n 14t e r in
preventiw,
avoided if the right hon. gentleroun4h:9 might have been
.gtatoment, and then allowed him to follow, first
made his
wish to ntlb;• any obstructions except such °Zile IT' had. n 6
to jr.:tke, If tho right hon. gentleman had he aright
to vi:.dicae the, policy he ,had recommendeClutteedw hint
..:i iv hf,„•,-e bc;:ii acting in a spirit of justice, and would i,,,,u,1.(1;
1 ' -•;et more creditable to the Government. ' c
1::,..0:1 a ei',:i.
I from Mr. VANSITTAP.T,
A f ter 3 fe.,,,- won .s
JAI ITIA
that the eh• ' • •
u report pro-
f .•-in i ,%.. V.l NE moved
...

gisesq.
The CHANCaiLOE, of the EXCHEQUER said th 9.: 6
an o
the -understanding all along was, that if there was y
at a
position .to -any part of the tariff being brought on lap'
ta
hour, that so fur as that part was concerned, it would be
postponed.. Adhering io that arrangement, as the noble
.lord objected to going on with the tea duties, t
delayhough
he
he
(the Chancellor of the Exchequer) deprecated ,
should. not persist. . - .
After scene further conversation between Lord A. Vane,