The Sun.
London, England, 1853-06-01 00:00:00

They may lead to a persistence in a state of things that I
quite admit to be anomalous and unusual ; but I am
obliged, as a member of this Parliament, to consider—and
to consider most seriously in the present state of the world
—that which is best adapted to maintain the freedom and
permanence of our institutions. I must look around me at
what is passing elsewhere. I must see what is taking
place in Belgium. I must See what is taking place in Sar-
dinia and in various countries of Europe. I must regard
the influence which, if not exercised, has been attempted
to be exercised, in the United Kingdom of late years.
(Cheers.) Seeing these things, I give my decided resis-
tance to the proposal of the hon. gentleman for the aboli-
tion of the Established Church in Ireland upon the princi-
ples which I have stated, and which appear to me to be
conclusive against the motion. (The noble lord resumed
his seat amid great cheering from all parts of the house.)
Mr. BRIGHT had been sorry to hear the speech of the
noble lord. (Ironical cheers and laughter from the Oppo-
sition benches.) He did not know how the noble lord re-
garded his past career, or how it would be regarded by the
country or by posterity, but no Minister, calling himself
liberal, had spoken in that house for 20 years in a sense so
adverse to those opinions which had been supposed to dis-
tinguish Liberal from Tory Governments for that period
—(Opposition cheers)—and the noble lord had been cheered
mainly by those who sat opposite to him, while those who
sat around and behind him had, many of them, listened in
silence, and, he suspected, with disapprobation, if not
dismay, to the opinions he had expressed. (Hear, hear,
and laughter from the Opposition.) The noble lord had not
fairly met the question before the house. The motion was
one which he might be expected to support, but the noble
lord assitmed that every person who supported it was in
favour of the total abolition of the Church of Ireland, and
had met the motion, not with the previous question, but
with a direct negative. No one would undertake to de-
fend the Irish Church. But it was said, "If you allow this
question of Church establishments to be mooted on the
other side of the channel, you will find it very difficult to
maintain Church establishments here." (Hear, hear.)
The house knew that to be true, and that was the reason
why many people refused to do justice to Ireland. But
on what a rotten and decaying foundation, then, the
Church establishment in this country must be based—
(oh !)—if they were afraid that, because measures of obvious
justice were conceded to Ireland, they involved measures
of a similar character with regard to England. He (Mr.
Bright) conceived that the noble lord was associated with
gentlemen in the Government who found it extremely dif-
ficult to agree on a question like the present ; but the
noble lord's political reputation and character ought to be
dear to himself; and he (Mr. Bright) said, that the Roman
Catholics of Ireland would be worthy of the contempt of
the world if, with such an ecclesiastical arrangement in
Ireland, they did not attempt to correct it. He would
say that the Roman Catholic liberal members of Ireland
would be unworthy of a seat in any senate in the world
if they did not protest against the monstrous injustice
inflicted on their country. (Cheers.) He suspected that
all churches, if the truth were known, were not particu-
larly favourable to civil liberty, and he did not think
that any church bound up in union with the State ever
encouraged that State or any State to grant increased civil
liberty to the people. The reason why in this country the
Church appeared to be, and was to a large extent, more
tolerant than many others was, because the people had
gained greater civil power, and had by slow degrees and
incessant conflict subjected in some measure the Church
and the clergy to a more wholesome public opinion. If
any man complained that in Ireland Catholic prelates
and priests had too much power over the people, he (Mr.
Bright) attributed that entirely to the fact, that for a long
period the legislation of that house had bound priest and
people together in one bond, and had done much to subject
the people to whatever there was of unwholesome influence
on the part of the priests. (Hear, hear.) At the present
moment it was impossible for any man to travel through i
Ireland and not perceive that there was one question which
poisoned all the social relations of that country. Whether
in the elections or in any other matter, political or social,
this one question of the Church Establishment was the
pestilent and poisonous question in Ireland, and made it as
impossible now as for the last 203 years that that country
should be in the possession of tranquillity and contentment
which every man, he hoped, in that house would wish to
prevail there. The hon. member for Meath said they
might have a long, an arduous, but he believed it would
be a successful, struggle. Now, if he (Mr. Bright) might
give a piece of advice to Irish Liberal members, whether
Protestant or Roman Catholic, it would be that they
should make this question of religious equality in Ireland
the cardinal question iu their political movements. Were
he a Roman Catholic, he would not come into that house
and let any occasion slip of denouncing the insult offered
to his church and country. He said to the Irish members,
let their measures be practical—let them bring all the
information they had on the question before the house
and before the people of England; and though at
present there existed a feeling adverse to giving
complete liberty to the Roman Catholics of Ireland
and England, yet they might rely on it these fevers
would pass away, and calmer and better•times would
come. (Hear, hear.) Let the Irish members still join the
English Liberal members in all they attempted to do for
the common liberties of England and Ireland, and they
might be sure, despite of the noble lord, and despite of the
Government, which could not agree probably on a ques-
tion like this, there was goodness and there was greatness
enough iu the people of this country yet to consent to a
measure of full justice to Ireland. (Cheers.)
Mr. J. D. FITZGERALD, as a Roman Catholic mem-
ber, could not permit the speech of the noble lord, the
leader of that house, to pass without observation. He had
felt the deepest disappointment at that speech ; for he cer-
tainly had not expected to hear the tone and arguments of
the hon. and learned member for Enniskillen (Mr. White-
side) adopted to some extent by the representative of the
Government. (Hear.) He had heard from the noble lord
that which he conceived to be an insult to the venerated
clergy of his church, and also to a considerable extent to
the Roman Catholic members of that house. (Hear, hear.)
The noble lord had argued that the Irish Church Estab-
lishment was not to be interfered with, not because it was
just, but because there was a spirit abroad which induced
the Roman Catholics and the clergy of the Roman Catholic
Church to give political power to a foreign Sovereign, and
interfered with the constitution of this country. He felt
called on entirely to deny that statement—(hear, hear)—
and in support of his denial he appealed to the experience
of the 24 years during which Roman Catholics had been
members of that house. There were many other points
which had fallen from hon. members on the other side of
the house to which he should have wished to reply, but
seeing the lateness of the hour, he would no longer trespass
upon tint attention of the house. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. MOORE having replied,
The house then divided ; when the numbers were-
-98
260

Ayes
Noes

Majority against the motion
ACCIDENTS IN COAL MINES

Mr. HUTCHINS moved that a select committee be ap-
pointed to inquire into the causes of the numerous accidents
in coal mines, with a view of suggesting the best means for
their prevention.
Lord PALMERSTON said that the question was one of
great interest, and was well worthy of being inquired,
into by a select committee. He had himself sent to
different parts of the continent for the purpose of ascer-
taining what were the modes adopted to prevent accidents
in mines.

The motion was agreed to, and the nomination of the
committee was fixed for Tuesday next.
REGISTRATION OF ASSURANCES BILL.

Sir J. YOUNG (for Lord J. Russell) moved that the
following gentlemen be nominated the select committee :
The Attorney-General, the Solicitor-General, the Marquis
of Chandos, Sir Frederick Thesiger, Mr. Evelyn Denison,
Mr. Vincent Scully, Mr. Headlam, Mr. Lowe, Mr. Drum-
mond, Mr. Walpole, Mr. Dunlop, Spooner, Mr. Mul-
lings, Mr. Butt, and Mr. Hadfield.—Agreed to.