The Sun.
London, England, 1853-04-27 00:00:00

which can be made in that system which will not be
injurious to it—when yoit have the example and expe-
rience of twenty-two years—when there is no reason
assigned for this inquiry upon which reliance can be
placed, except the opinion of the hon. and learned gentle-
man the member for the University of Dublin, that the
time has arrived when "the phantom of mixed education"
is to be abandoned, but which phantom I have shown is a
reality—(hear, hear)—I ask, can you have a system more
successful than that which embraces within its sphere a
larger number of the youth of the country than that of
any country in Europe ? For theso reasons Ido sincerely
hope that the house will agree with me that it would be
highly inexpedient to assent to the motion that has been
been made to-night. (Cheers.)
Mr. WHITESIDE said he had endeavoured to gather
from the right hon. gentleman who had just sat down the
reasons on which he resisted the very moderate motion of
his hon. and learned friend. The answer of the right hon.
gentleman was that the system of the National Board of
Education in Ireland, though in danger, was faultless, and
that the more it was inquired into the more its advan-
tages would appear; but the right hon. gentleman, not-
withstanding, contended that that system would be in
peril if a fair and honest inquiry was instituted into' its
working. He (Mr. Whiteside) believed that the hon.
member for Meath spoke the truth when he said that the

National Board was lately on the very point of dissolution

. - .
He believed also there never was a time when inquiry into
this system could be conducted with greater benefit than
at the present moment. With regard to the present na-
tional schools, he might state that upwards of 2,000 of
them were in the yards of Roman Catholic chapels—a fact
which indicated clearly enough the character of the
schools and the kind of education imparted to the chil-
dren. The Presbyterian schools were attended by Pres-
byterian children separately and almost exclusively ;
and it was a curious fact, and might be regarded as a
compliment to the Established Church, that her schools
were attended by about 40,000 Roman Catholic children,
while very few were to be found in the schools of the
Church of Scotland. The reason assigned by some
parties was, that the people belonging to the Established
Church were half Papists ; but he thought that was a mis-
take. (A laugh.) He might say, on the part of the Roman
Catholics, that it was wrong to suppose they objected wholly
to the reading of the Scriptures in their schools, because he
knew many parishes where the Roman Catholic clergy pre-
sented the Douay version of the Bible to the people of their
own flock. (Hear, hear.) It had been said that certain
parties in Ireland wanted to force the Roman Catholics to
read the authorised version. He denied 'it. Even the
Kildare-street Society did not dare to propose anything of
the kind. He subscribed himself to a school which main-
tained, about two years ago' 150 children, of whom 55
were Roman Catholics. The Scriptures were read every
day in the school ; no party objected to it • and he was
not aware that any of the Roman Catholic children had by
proselytism abandoned their religion. The motion before
the house was commenced by justice and fairness. He
asked for inquiry into the system of education. If it was
proved to be sound, let them maintain it ; but if they
could make it better, he hoped they would not refuse the
modifications desired by the Protestant people of Ireland.
(Cries of "divide.")
Mr. FAGAN moved the adjournment of the debate.
(Cries of "no, no," and "divide.") I
Lord J. RUSSELL opposed the motion for an adjourn-
ment. This was a question upon which the house had fre-
quently deliberated—all its merits were sufficiently before
the house. (Hear, hear.) The hon. and learned gentlemen
who had conducted the debate on the other side had stated
the whole case in the most powerful manner against the
present national system of education. The hon. and
learned gentleman who last sat down had stated that
what the Protestant clergy of Ireland wanted was that
they should have the power of reading the Bible in the
authorised version to Roman Catholic children as well as
to Protestant children. He was glad the hon. and learned
gentleman had stated thus openly and frankly the object
of the motion now before the house. It was true that
object was implied in the nomination of the committee.
The house would observe that what the hon. gentleman
opposite wanted was, not a general committee to inquire
what had been the operation of the national system of
education in Ireland, but a committee to introduce into
that system the modifications to which reference had bee*
made during the debate. Well, supposing the house were
to agree to those modifications, surely it would not be
denied that the Roman Catholic priests should have a
power similar to that given to the Protestant clergymen—
that they should have the right to teach Protestant children
the Roman Catholic doctrines which were contained in the
formularies of their Church ? Now he asked the house
whether the effect of this would not be to destroy the
mixed system of education in Ireland ? Agree to the pro-
posal of the honourable and learned member who intro-
duced the motion, and they would have to establish at
least two separate systems—one Roman Catholic, the other
Protestant—and each endowed perhaps to the extent of
100,0001. or 120,0001. Why this would be raising a new
Maynooth question. (Hear, hear.) As the subject had
been sufficiently discussed already, he certainly should
oppose the motion for adjournment. (Cries of " divide.")
Mr. KIRK, who vainly attempted to address the house,
presented a petition from the dean and inhabitants of Dro-
more, in favour of the national system of education.
Mr. CONOLLY having seconded the motion for adjourn-
ment, _ _

The house divided, when the numbers stood thus :
For the adjournment of the debate 2B
Against
Majority —234
For Mr. Hamilton's motion
Against
Majority against the motion —7o
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