The Sun.
London, England, 1853-04-05 00:00:00

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[PRICE SD.

from the City called upon him and showed him the ad-
dress. That address appeared to him to be perfectly un-
objectionable. It was merely a record of opinion in fa-
vour of the maintenance of peace, and knowing the feel-
ings of the people of this country towards France, he
could see no possible objection to the document. The
gentleman to whom he referred then told him that this
declaration was to be presented to the Emperor. In it
he could not see anything which could be said to bear a
national character. The gentleman then asked him whe-
ther there would be any objection to instruct our ambas-
sador in France to be present at the presentation. He re-
plied that it was not intended 'to give such an instruction,
and accordingly the ambassador was not present. As far
as he (Lori Clarendon) had heard, that declaration of
opinion had produced a good impression in France. If he
had been asked whether he thought that such a declaration
should have been carried further, he should have said no.
It simply referred to the goad understanding—the cordial
understanding—between the two countries, about which
there could be no doubt, and as he believed there was no
doubt on the part of the French people as to the feelings
of the English nation towards them, such an allusion was
correct. He concurred in thinking it inexpedient that
this declaration should be considered a national declara-
tion' but could not recognise the parallel of his noble
and learned friend between the present deputation and
that which proceeded to Franch in 1848. (Hear, hear.)
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH thought that this
was a matter of considerable importance. lie quite
agreed with all that had fallen from the noble and
learned lord except the complimentary terms in which
he had spoken of these individuals. For himself, he
looked upon the transaction with no feelings but those
of disgust ; and as they had from the very highest autho-
rity that these persons had been guilty of a grave
offence, he hoped that if they came before the noble and
learned lord in his judicial capacity, his sentence would
be divested of all complimentary terms.
The Earl of MALMESBURY said, he could not
allow the present conversation to close without offering
one remark on what had fallen from the noble and learned
lord. The noble and learned lord, although he professed
not to consider these gentlemen as actuated by any but
the most patriotic motives, had yet hinted at others.
Lord CAMPBELL—I said such might be the case if
this proceeding were made a precedent.
The Earl of MALMESBURY (in continuation) had
of course intended to refer to the remarks of the noble
and learned lord with respect to the funds. It was im-
possible to misunderstand the meaning of such observa-
tions. (Hear, hear.)
Lord CAMPBELL said he had acquitted the deputa-
tion of all improper motives, and had simply pointed out
the danger of making the present transaction an example.
If this affair were passed over in silence, other deputa-
tions might proceed to France with other objects.
The Earl of MALMESBURY (in continuation) was
glad to hear that the noble and learned lord did not in-
tend to throw out any insinuation against those who had
signed the declaration in question. (Hear, hear.) He
(the Earl of Malmesbury) regretted that the address should
have proceeded through a non-official channel, and
doubted its necessity; but, as it had been presented, he
was glad to be able to bear personal testimony to the
effect it had produced in France. He was accidentally
in Paris when the address was presented, and persons
had expressed to him the great pleasure which such a de-
claration of opinion had produced. There was not the
most distant idea in France of such an address being
considered derogatory by the English people. Some
persons might think so in this country, but, in justice to
the Emperor and his ministers, he must say, that on
their parts, there was not the most remote sign of such
a feeling. They felt gratification at what they considered
to be a sign that the population of this country, and
especially of this great city, were anxious to continue
our peaceful relations with France. Ido not (continued
the noble earl) defend the act ; but I say, as it has been
committed—and in these days people are not to be
ruled arbitrarily, and will act for themselves and speak
for themselves- —I can hardly congratulate the house
upon the noble and learned lord having brought the
subject forward, because no harm, but rather good, has
resulted from it, and I do not see that any harm or dan-
ger could have resulted from this rash, though success-
ful, proceeding. (Hear.)
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH presumed then that
the noble earl would have sanctioned the proceedings
had he remained in office ?

The Earl of MALMESBURY—On the contrary. I
particularly said that if I bad been in the place of the
noble earl opposite (Clarendon), I should have given the
same advice which the noble earl gave, and have care-
fully refrained from approving the proceeding. (Hear.)
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH apologised, as not
having heard the observation.
___ _ _

The LORD CHANCELLOR said he hoped that his
noble and learned friend the Lord Chief Justice did not
mean it to go forth upon his high authority that such a
proceeding was necessarily illegal. (Hear.) The prece-
dent might possibly lead to consequences it would be
difficult to deal with, and perhaps to illegal consequences;
but it would be extremely dangerous to lay it down as a
principle that every such proceeding was necessary ille-
gal. (Hear.) It had been the most common thing in
' the world that addresses should be presented to foreign
Sovereigns—perhaps merely as matters of courtesy ; but
still all such addresses would be illegal if the noble and
learned lord was correct. He could not but recollect
that when he was in the south of France last autumn,
he saw several members of their lordships' and of the
other house of Parliament upon a deputation to
the Grand Duke of Tuscany, to induce him to
interfere in respect to certain of his subjects. It might
be that this was illegal ; but, although agreeing with
his nhble and learned that these proceedings were much
to be deprecated, and were calculated to lead to great
difficulties, ho hoped that it would not be understood
that they were necessarily illegal, or subjecting the
parties to a criminal prosecution.
Lord CAMPBELL said he did not mean that such
proceedings were illegal in that sense, so that the parties
could be indicted and arraigned. He did not say that
this could be the case unless there were some males
animus. But he maintained that such proceedings were
illegal in this sense, that the law did not sanction them,
and that a member of Parliament might be impeached
for such conduct. The deputation to the Grand Duke
of Tuscany was to influence him to release persons im-
prisoned for religious opinions, and no doubt that was
not illegal, for it was not really international. But
that which related to peace and war between the two
countries was national, and any English subject inter-
fering on such a subject, and pretending to represent
the British nation to any foreign power, did what was
undoubtedly illegal.
VACCINATION EXTENSION BILL.
Lord LYTTLETON moved the second reading of
the bill.

The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH observed that the
bill imposed penalties upon neglect to vaccinate, but
extended no new facilities.

Lord LYTTLETON was not aware that any were
wanted ; if they were he would be happy to introduce
them.

The bill was read a second time.

ADMINISTRATION OF THE LAW IN INDIA.
Lord CAMPBELL presented a petition from the Ar-
menians of Calcutta,, Bombay, and Bengal, complaining
of the position of their community throughout our
Indian possessions. The Armenians had for ages ceased
to be a nation, but were our fellow Christians, and bad
maintained a respectable character. They had settled in
India before we came there, and between them and the
East India Company a treaty had been made in 1688,
securing them the rights of British subjects. For a cen-
tury, so long as we occupied only the cities of Calcutta,
Bombay, and Madras, this treaty had been observed
and these rights secured, for in those cities the English
law prevailed. In more recent times, however, our In-
dian possessions had enormously extended, and com-
prised vast territories, in which the English law did not
prevail, and in which there was no lex loci ; but the
law was administered according to race and refigion.
Now, unfortunately, the Armenian law had been
abolished by the Emperor Justinian in A. D. 536,
and the Roman or civil law which they had then
adopted had ceased to be recognised. Hence the
Armenians had in fact no law of their own,
and it was in civil matters left doubtful what law
was to be administered among them ; but in
criminal cases they were far worse off, for they were
subjected to the Mahommedan law, which they abhorred.
In 1833, at the renewal of the ast India charter, the
legislature declared that the law of India ought to be
consolidated and settled ; and a commission had been
issued to five learned gentlemen, who had passed a
measure, which had been sent home in 1841, and which
had ever since remained a dead letter. If this measure
had been carried out, the evil complained of could not
have arisen. It was an evil which did not apply alone
to Armenians, but to other large classes of people who
happened to have no regular law of their own. The
evil also was aggravated by the judicial system which
prevailed in India. He (Lord Campbell) was persuaded
that the abuses of that system were enormous. The
fact was no one knew what was the law, and no one of
course knew how to administer it. Some administered
it according to tradition, some by written law, some ac-
cording to natural justice. It was a saying in India,
"that any one could make a judge." Certain it was
that there was no judicial training. In this country or
in France there was a long course of training for the
bench of justice. But in India a man was a certain
A And
conceiv a e
number of years a " collector," and then was suddenly
made Thew
iresult of ssutcht
e of t
a isystemlt law
) could
dj,uedsgpeelcial y h h a a
the petitioners prayed that measures might *
be taken for
the remedy and redress of so great a • grievance.
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH said the case of the
petitioners was certainly a hard one • and it was not
their case alone, but that of a large
numbers of persons
of European parentage. As to introducing the law of
England, no one
was acquainted with it—no one was
able to administer it. It
would be well if the noble and
learned Lord Chief Justice would favour the committee
on India affairs with his attendance and assistance on
this subject. (Hear, and a laugh.)
The Earl of ABERDEEN said the Government were
sensible of the immense importance of the subject, and
it was under consideration. He hoped that the labours
of the commission and the committee would not prove
barren with_regard to it.

Lord CAMPBELL was happy to hear this assurance