The Sun.
London, England, 1838-01-23 00:00:00

HO USE OP COMMONS, J.4x. 22.

The SPEAKER took the Chair at the usual hour.
The CittstioLm took the oaths and his seat for the county of
Inverness.

Mr. GROTE presented a petition from Lynn, in Norfolk,
signed by 600 persons in favour of the Ballot. Also petitions
to the same effect from places in Radnorshire.
Mr. MACLEOD presented a petition from the corpora-
tion of Kincardine, in favour of the plan of post-office reform
proposed by Mr. Hill.
_ _

Mr. TAN CRE D presented a similar petition from the
merchants of Banbury to the tame effect.
Sir S. WHALLEY presented a petition from St. Pancras,
praying the House to pass measures for the relief of Canadian
grievances; also one from the same parish, praying that the
name of the Hon. Member for Southwark (Mr. Harvey)
might be added to the Committee appointed to inquire into the
Pension List. Ile gave notice, that if Sir G. Sinclair did not
proceed with the matter, he would on the 30th inst. move that
the name of Mr. Harvey be added to the Committee, the ob-
jection which formerly prevailed being no longer in existence.
Mr, NI A ULF. presented a petition from parishes in Carlow,
prajing for Corporate Reform in Ireland.
Mr. HARVEY presented a petition from Kettering, pray-
ing the House to rescind the resolutions of last year respect-
ing Canada.

Mr. LEADER presented a number of petitions from West-
minster and Bristol, deprecating coercive measures respecting
Canada.

GLASGOW COTTON SPINNERS.
Mr. WA KLE Y presented a petition from the Working
Men's Asso:_,irition of Bristol, praying the House to address her
Majesty for a free pardon for the men lately sentenced to
transportation in Edinburgh—and one to the same effect
from the Trados Association of London. He gave notice
that on Thursday next he would move for a Committee
to enquire into the nature and constitution of the Operative
Cotton Spinners Association of Glasgow.
Mr. DE NNISTOUN presented a petition from the Glas-
gow Chamber of Commerce, praying for the establishment of
a Board for examining all captains of merchant ships; and
one against any further endowments to the Scottish Church.
If the Ministry granted any further endowment to the Scottish
Church they would ruin their popularity in Scotland. (Hear,
hear.) The feeling against any further endowment was very
strong.
Mr. A. YATES presented a petition from a parish in
Carlow, praying for the abolition of tithes.

was Of the utmost importance that
e opportunity of making himself,.
ratory to coming to a final deter:
They had not as yet been Ole to
three hundred Members when the
were under discusion. He, therefore,
ments be r.-printed.
Mr. GLADSTONE—The Hon. Member has assumed
that these papers are out of print.
Mr. HOME—It is because they are out of print that I
make the present motion.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL had no objection to the reprint-
ing of those papers, but he would by no means consent that
that should be made a ground for delaying the measures which
had been brought forward by her Majesty's Government. Let
the papers he reprinted, but let not that bo afterwards urgod
as aground for delay.
Mr. HUME had no intention of making hi* proposition
ground for delay.
The motion was then agreed to.
POOR LAWS,
Lord SA NDON moved for certain returns reLtiva
the Poor Law Amendment Act.—Agrecd to.
APFAIRS OF CANADA.
Mr. GROTE having- Leer called on by the SPEAKER,
moved that the petition of Jotin Arthur Roebuck, which had
been presented by bin on Wednesday evening last. be now read.
The petition was then read at length by the Clerk.
Sir ROBERT INGLIS wished to call the attention of
the House to an omission in the petition, no doubt acciden-
tally, but nevertheless it was the duty of every Member of
that House to sec that the regulations it required
were zit-tided to. The House required that in all
pmitions it should be stated that it was " the humble pe-
tition," and that " your petitioner humbly shcweth," neither
of which phrases were in the present petition. Peeaaps:: he
Hon. Member for London w'•uld state win ther that omission
was accidental or not ? If it were not accidental, 1.,e should i et
it his duty to call the attention of the House more fully to the
subject.

Mr. GROTE was quite sure that it neves was the iat nation
of Mr. Roebuck to show any want of respect to the House,
and he felt convinced therefore ',na the omission was entirely
accidental. Fur his oan ra'..rt he was not aware till the pre_
sent moment that tha aword " humbly," or the words "'your
petitioner humbly,. showeth," were essentially necessary in
every petitiea, presented to that House. If his memory
did not deceive him, he had, presented several peti-
tion
Which did not contain those words. • The petitioners in
chose cases considered that they did their duty to the House if
they addressed is in proper language. He was sure it never coadd
have been the intention of Mr. Roebuck to omit any `cords
that were necessary to shew a proper respect to the Hamse.
Sir ROBERT INGL IS said that the Honouraole Mem-
ber for London having stated that the omission was uninten-
ticnal lie would, perhaps, allow him to obsenre, that the only
exception to the rule of the House whicis required the intro-
duction of the words, was in the: case of a Peer or a
Quaker. It was more especially necessary that that t ule
should be adhered to in the case of a person who had had the
honour of a seat in that Ilouse. If the petition had been that
of an ordinary person he should not have noticed it.
Mr. GROTE then rose, but was interrupted by
Sir R. PE EL, who gave notice, that when the Canada
Bill went into Committee, he would move the omission of
such parts of the Bill as expressed a recognition
that the Convention or Committee, or whatever it was called,
was to meet in a representative character, and also of such
part as gave her Majesty in Council a power to repeal the Bill.
Mr. GROTE proceeded to move that J. A. Roebuck, Esq.
he heard at the bar of that House, as the Agent of the Aaaeni-
bly of Lower Canada against the Canada Bill, on the second
reading thereof. From the few words which were spoken in
the House when he first brought forward the petition of Mr.
Roebuck, he hoped that Hon. Gentlemen, whatever their
opinions might be as to the policy of that Bill, •would
think it nothing more than justice that the Agent of the
Assembly of Lower Canada should have an opportunity of being
heal d in their defence. In the preamble of the Bill it was
the meeting of the House of Assembly which it would ap-
pear was to be prevented, and the suspension of the Conssitu-
tion of Lower Canada in fact signified the suspension of
the Assembly, which was the most important part
of that Constitution; and when Gentlemen recollected
how imperfectly the House was furnished with information
upon the affairs of Lower Canada, and how completely that
information which they did possess came from one side of tilt
question only, they could not but agree that it would be itapssas
sible to conic to a fair and impartial conclusion upon this ss:e:ject
without giving full opportunity to those persons wba, repre-
sent the opinions of the House of Assembly, and were naturally
well acquainted with the affairs of Lower Canada, of
setting forth their case before the House.---( Hear, hear.)
It would also be in the recollection of the House, that the
Noble Lord the Member for Stroud, in his speech on
Tuesday night, laid as his principle ground for the
introduction of so very severe a measure as the pro-
posed Bill for the temporary Government of Canada
the entire want of confidence which ho felt in the
House of Assembly ; and the Noble Lord. went through a
series of the acts of that House, to demorWirate that they had
forfeited all claim to the confidence, no: only of that House,
but of the Canadian people. Whe';.her the Noble Lord
would he able to lay sufficient eei?,ence before the House
to justify that assumption, he_ would not now stop to
inquire ; but he must sly, that it was but fairness and
justice to the body against whom such vehement accu-
sations had been . brous;iast, that they should give the
agent of that body, roes in England, an opportunity of
detending them at the 'tsar of that House.—( Hear, hear.)
He did not antie':pate that 'any objection could be
made on principle to the motion. ( Hear, hear.) As to the
question AS lo what stage of the Bill Mr. Roebuck
should be 'heard, he believed that invariable precedent
of this; Iles.use had decided that an agent could only be heard at
the bar after the second reading of the Bill to which he objected
had. been agreed to. It was not his intention to propose that the
house should depart from the custom that had hertofore been
pursued in such cases, and lie therefore proposed that Mr.
Roebuck be heard after the second reading had been agreed to.
Inasmuch, however, as he, in common with other gentlemen in
that House, objected to the principle of this Bill, and as he
mould be sorry that it should be supposed that by proposing
this course lie acquiesced in it, lie wished to state that he did
so to meet the convenience of the Honse. He therefore
proposed that the second reading of the Bill should
be formally agreed to, and that the discussion upon it
should take place on the subsequent question that the Bill
be committed. He thought that. this course would both con-
duce to the convenience of the House and to the object which
lie had in view. He was ips'ite sure that if the House decided
on the principle of the Bill without bearing the state-
ments which Mr. Roebuck had to lay before them, they
would be guilty of an inadvertence, in deciding without
that evidence which was most material to its due con-
sideration. Ile would not, therefore, detain the House far-
ther than to move that John Arthur Roebuck be heard at the
bar of that House on the second reading of the Bill.
Mr. GL A DSTONE thought it would be desirable to hear
the Hon. Gentleman on this Bill; at the same time he felt it
his duty to protest against any motion passing the House
which should recognize Mr. Roebuck as the agent of the House
of Assembly. Mr. Limburn's case in 1793 had been referred to.
It appeared to him (Mi. G.) that that case differed materially
from the present on two grounds. The first was, that Mi'.
Limburn represented the whole Province. There was no
division and no dissension.—( Hear, hear.) The second point
of difference was more important. Mr. Limburn was
deputed by the community, or a largo portion of the com-
munity of Canada, and he was deputed for that very
case ; but in the present instance Mr. J. A. Roebuck
was not so deputed, and lie came here pleading the general
title of agency, out of which he deduced his claim to act on
the behalf of his constituents, and appeared at the bar of
this House. He ( Mr. G.) was not aware of any
constitutional right of appointing agents with general
powers of' that description.—( Hear, hear, hear. ) Ho
was certain the practice would lead to interminable contu-
sion. If they allowed the House of Assembly the power of
appointing such agents, they could not refuse the power to
the Legislative Councils. He would not now inquire
whether that was a good system of Government or
a bad one, but it was essentially different from that
under which our colonies ex isted. —( Hear, hear.) As regarded
the inconvenience, the question was how to avoid it, and to
him it was a most serious question. There was nothing he
should so much regret as to reject the prayer of the petition.
It was most desirable the House should hear what Mr. Roe-
buck had to say.—(l fear, hear.) They had all listened
to him on former occasions, and had profited much by his
accurate knowledge of the colony. He would also observe
that Mr. Roebuck possessed the confidence of the House of
Assembly. He was qualified as a member of the bar-
to be employed by the House of Assembly, and tlaara
was a strong case of equity that he should be ];card.
The House of Assembly, he would not deny, had a right to
appoint an agent for a particular purpose, but wheat he recol-
lected the course taken by that House recently., tie objected to
their agent being recognised by the House, of Commons,
Considering the course that had been taken un former oceas
sions upon the Municipal Corporatism, Bill, when the parties
had been heard by their agents at the bar of the H011.9e of
Lords—considering that there were many other precedents
upon the records of the Holiest for such a course, lie could not
bring himself, whatever the amount of difficulty might be
created—he could not briag himself to reject the prayer
of the petition.--( Hear, hear. ) But when he considered
the incapacity of the House of Assembly to appoint an spent,
he confessed that it appeared to him better to leave out the
words in the motion authorizing Mr. Roebuck to act as its
agent. He did not say that the course he was aboutto propose was
not open to objection, but nothing would induce hint to recognise
Mr. Roebuck in that capacity. Such a proposition, •in his
opinion, lead to every sort of anomaly in practice and,
difficulty in conducting the business of that Hour^
Lord JOHN RUSSELL was glad the subject lied kseell
brought before the House, in order that they mighn, fully toe.
sider the position in which they were placed. glad
the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat d'acn had stated his
views upon the question now before tlnern, lie was glad to
find that that Hon. Gentleman ""'s of the opinion which
be (Lord J. Russell) entertain-
that they ought not to
allow objections of a mere]:
j, formal nature to prevent their
hearing Mr. Roebuck. He would say that if the present Bit!
partially affected tlia interests of Lower' Canada—if the intes.
rests of that ".evince were only incidentally affected, it 'night
be prone!: to take that point of form, and consider whether
they Assl ht to hear Mr, Roebuck in the character of agent.
--( Hear. hear.) Rut upon the present occasion he was
rather disposed to hook at the position in which Mr, Roebuck
hail for acme time stood. Mr. Roebuck stated that having
the resolution of the Ilouse of Assembly, authorising, him too
cat as its agent, he sought permission to address them in that
capacity. Ile had nevea been recognised as their agent, but
had bets cccasieually received at the Colonial Office as thes

-------
---------
representative of the Canadian House of Assembly, and also
with reference to some pecuniary arrangements between the
colony and that country. Such being the state of the case, h:
thought it was better on the whole on an occasion which was one
of stole very great importance, that the House should hear.
Mr. Roebu4ek in the character which he assumed, not as the
assent fur the province—not as the agent appointed by any Bill
consented to by the Governor of that province, hut as the agent
chosen by the House of Assembly to represent their interests.
The lion. Gentleman who had last spoken had proposed that
they should hear Mr. Roebuck in his individual capacity ;
but he could assure the Honourable Gentleman that that would
be a precedent much more injurious in its consequences
than hearing him in the capacity of agent. la the character
lie as,umed, as agent for the House of Assembly, there could be
..
no objection on a question of great importance to that Colony,
to hear an agent appointed by it, and who bad received a sa-
lary as such, but if they heard him merely as Mr. Roebuck,
in his individual capacity, he thought hereafter it might be
open to any person to say " I take a great interest in the af-
fairs of a certain colony or in a certain Bill, and there-
fore I request to be heard at the bar in opposition to this Bill."
That would, in his opinion, be a worse precedent than the one
lie was prepared to recommend. lie was upon those reasons
ready to agree to the motion of the Honourable Mem-
ber for London. The proper question to be before the
House was, that the Order of the Day for the second reading
of the Bill be then read, upon which it would be open
for the Honourable Member, or any one who bad the
same opinions, to make any motion they pleased. til
. , Lord STANLEY quite agreed with the Noble Lord that
fie present Government could not by any possibility have any
reaeon to oppose the hearing of Mr. Roebuck in his character
of agent. That gentleman had bc-n received by the Colonial-
office as the agent of the House of Assembly ; the Goecra-
ment had given their sanction to the assumption of the Learned
Gentleman, and therefore they could not now object to hear him
in that character, He believed that they were the only
Government who had ever received a gentleman in such a
characte.e Up to the nresent Government there was not one
who had ever received a gentleman as the agent of a colony
permanently residing in this enuntry. The case most analogous
to the present one was that of 1:• Yigat—he was authorised
to appear here as the counsel of th:.` House of Assembly.
It was the only colony that had claimed !he right of being
half represented in England. In 18.28 the pe,Siteon was that
the colony should appoint an agent, and the recomi2endati°,n
in 182 e was that the colonies should be allowed to appoil7t "y.
Bill an agent for the whole colony. But from the peculiar
circumstances into which that colony had been plunged, the
two branches of the Legislature had never been able to agree
upon t.tee individual who should appear armed with the autho-
rity and character of colonial agent. He had thought it
necessary to follow his Honourable Friend in the pro-
test which he bad made, particularly after the state-
ment of the Noble Lord opposite, who appeared in all
respects to recognize the right of Mr. Roebuck to be heard.
For his (Lord Stanley's) own part, if he followed his own
judgment in an ordinary case, he should consider it would be
difficult to say Mr. Roebuck ought not to appear. If he fol-
lowed his own feelings, he should say, by all means, give Mr.
Roebuck every latitude you can.—( Cries of " Hear, hear.")
But the difficulty ae felt in the present instance was this:—
if this were an ordinary transaction, affecting the whole of the
colony, the ordinary and clear course would be for the Hoose
of Assembly to appoint, pro hac vice, a person as agent for the
colony, and praying to be heard at the bar of the
House by counsel. That would be the proper course
to be pursued in an ordinary case, but the difficulty was that
there would be no time for the House of Assembly to be con-
sulted. They would have no notice of this Bill before it was
in all probability passed into a law—at all events they would
have no notice of it before it was read a second time
when the House would have adopted the principle of the mea-
sures. He had therefore to decide between two difficulties,
eitheriof,hearing a gentleman at the bar of the House who did
not stand in the situation of Counsel; on the other hand of de-
priving from being heard a party by the mouth of a gentleman
vebom be was bound to say faithfully represented that party.
He had no hesitation in saving that Mr. Roebuck very accu-
rately represented the feelings of the House of Asembly ;
he had likewise no hesitation in saying that if that body
were convened, he had little doubt that Mr. Roebuck
would have been the person who would have been
entrusted with the advocacy of their cause before that House;
that being the case, he confessed that against his judge 1
went, in an ordinary case, he would give his con-
sent to hear Mr. Roebuck upon the question, even'
waving the technical difficulty of hearing him as the agent'
of the House of Assembly. He would not hear him, howevere
as a matter of right, but as a matter of favour.
Sir G. GRE Y could not concur with many of the statements
of the Noble Lord. It had been suggested by a Noble Friend:
of his that the petition should be presented and laid on the.
table, ein order that the point it involved should be decided
after due deliberation. He thought that no person would ob-
ject to Me. Roebuck being heard, looking at the situation of
Lower ICanat.'a and the provisions of the Bill that had
been brought' in for its better regulation. When the
Noble Lord as'un:ed that the Government had recognised
Mr. Roebuck as the agent of Canada, he begged to remind
him of the manner in which Monsieur Vigat had bee
recognised by the Government when the Noble Lord was a
the head of the Colonial department.—( Cheers.) Th
salary of Monsieur Vigat was for several years included i ,
the contingent fund, and was voted by the House of Assembly,
and the payment was made by the Governor and
the authority of a Bill which had met with the sanction of th
Noble ,Lord.—( Crica of " No, no," from Lord Stanley.
If he was wrong he wished to be corrected.—( Cheers from th
Opposition. ) He again asserted that the Government hat
not recognised Mr. Roebuck so much as the Governmen
of the Noble Loed had recognised the employment of M. Vigat.
It did not appear lit that dispatch that the Noble Lord though
1
right to refuse the assent of the Crown to the salar
which had been greeted by both Houses of the Le-
gislature of Lower Canada to Mr. Vigat.—( Hear, hear,
bear,) As Mr. Vigat had access to the Colonial Offic
so, in the same way, did Mr. Roebuck have that access—h
had been only admitted in courtesy, and as any Gentle=
would be admitted on behalf of any interest in Lowe
Canada._(Bear, hear.) Why did not lion. Gentlemc
opposite raise +his question when a motion was brought fore
ward by the lion. ;limber for Shrewsbury in the last Parli
mere, worded so as to exclude from Parliament the paid agen
of the Colonial Assembly? Mr. Roebuck was then express!
recognized by the House as the agent of the House of As
membly.—( Hear, hear.) Having secured against a preceded
being established, it would be better now at once to pass th
motion, waiving an objection that savoured rather of speci
p'eadine.—( Hear.)
Mr. C. B ULLER said that as the Hon, Baronet had stet
that he had been unable to obtain a copy of the answer, I
was desirous to ask him in order to clear up this matter, if It
could tax his recollection as to whether it was not eornewh
to this elfect—" Sir, as you say that you have been appeinte
here not as the agent of the Province, but of the House 0
Assembly, I should he happy to see you."—( Laughter, an
cries of " Hear, hear.") The feeling of the majority of th
House appeared to be in favour of hearing M:. Roebuck, an
the only dissentients were those who agreed with his Hon.
Friend, who had suggested the ingenious and valuable prece-
dent of hearing Mr. Roebuck, not in his official but in his
individual capacity.—(" No, no," from Sir George Grey.)
Well, then, in no capacity at all.—(Loud laughter.) That
was a question which could not for a moment be enter-
tained by the House. See the precedent the Hon. Baronet
would set. If they heard Mr. Roebuck in his individual ca-
pacity on that Bill, why not hear him •on every
other—( Loud laughter)—and for his part there was
no one in that House he would rather than that gentle-
man. lie hoped the Honourable Baronet would give
an answer to the question which he had put to
him, as to whether or not the terms of Lord
Gienelg's letter were such as he had stated.
Sir GEORGE GREY said that he had no recollection
whatever of the terms of the letter ; they might possibly be
such as the Hon. Member had stated, but he had before said
that he had been prevented from obtaining a copy of it, by
circumstances over which he had no control.
Mr. GLA DSTONE made some observation, which was
inaudible in the Gallery.
Mr. HUME then rose, and was received with cries of
" Oh, oh," from the Opposition. The Hon. Member
said that as it appeared to be the wish of the majority of the
House that Mr. Roebuck should be heard, he wished to know
whether he was to be heard before the second reading of
the Bill, or before the House had affirmed the principle
of the 13111 by agreeing to the second reading of it.
he was aware that the precedents heretofore were in favour of
the former course, but the latter appeared to him to be more
strictly in accordance with the common sense view of the subject.
If they allowed the second reading of the Bill to pass without a
division, it appeared to hint that they would have affirmed the
principle, and they would thus shut out the information which
Mr. Roebuck wished to lay before them. If the practice was
against this they ought to depart from it, and Mr. Roebuck
ought to be heard on the second reading of the Bill, and
before the second reading tools place.
Mr. GROTE believed it was di.tinctly understood that the
second reading was not to be taken as a recognition of the
principle of' the Bill, and that there would be an opportunity
of debating it on a subsequent stage.
Mr. HUME protested against the principle of the Bill.—
(Cries of " Spoke.") He should oppose the second reading
it' he was to be prevented from entering his protest.
The SPEAKER then put the question that Mr. Roebuck
be heard at the bar, which was agreed to.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL moved that the Bill be read a
second time.
. Mr. HUME suggested in order that Mr. Roebuck might be
well heard, the same indulgence should be given to him as had
been given to Mr. O'Connell and others, by advancing the
Bar. lie therefore moved that the same accommodation be
allowed to Mr. Roebuck, which was on a former occasion al-
lowed to Mr. O'Connell.
The Officers of the House then proceeded to advance the
Bar beyond the usual limits on the floor of the House, amidst
cries of " No, no," from the Opposition, responded by cries
of " Yes" from the Ministerial side.
Mr. Roebuck at this time appeared below the bar, having
a pile of books in his arms. He was about to lay them on
the bar, when an Hon. Member on the last seat of the front
Opposition bench called out " No, no."
Mr. WARBURTON was understood to ask the Speaker,
whether the House bad not decided that the bar should be
moved into the House ?—( Cries of " Yes, yes," and" No, no.")
The SPEAKER said that he was sorry if he had mis-
taken the sense of the House; but he had thought the
decision of the House to be in favour of the motion of the
Bon. Member for Kilkenny, that the bar should be advanced
upon the floor of the House, as the ayes predominated, and
no 'notion in the negative was made.
The' BON. NIEMBEII above alluded to, from the end of the

Upp(Aitioitbetielles, nio'

riuo •
tho bib- be c,,_ried btc'i to

its usual place.
The SPEAKE R—Docs the Hon. lieln'"er move d
cries of " No, no !")
The HON. MEmumt —Yes ; I move that the tar be carri d
back to its usual place.—( Repeated cries of " No, no :
The SPEAKER—Does the Hon. Member move?—(Cres

of " No, no!")
The HON. MEstnEtt bowed to the S?eaker, and sat d et/ n,
intimating that he withdrew his motion.
The SPEAKER then called Mr. Roebuck to the bar, And
the Bill having been read, he said that the House had cm-
seated to hear the Learned. Gentleman.
Mr. Roebuck said—Sir, I have to mention in the com-
mencement of my address to this Ilcnourable House the
very peculiar position in which I appear before you,
and 1 can more fully explain the circumstances in
which:l stand in the course of my address, than I was
able to do in my petition to be heard in this place.
I appear before you as the authorised agent of the House of
Assembly of Lower Canada ; and I hold in my hand the at-
tested resolution of that body, by which I am appointed ;
and, if it be pleasing to your House, I will hand it
in, to be read by your Clerk. I also hold
in my hand the letter of the Speaker of that 1-louse, communi-
cating to me the resolution of the House of Assembly—which
letter, inasmuch as it contains flattering expressions towards
myself, I would rather hand to your Clerk, to be read by him,
than that I should read it myself. ( Hear, hear,
hear.) I do not know whether the House will
object to these documents being read—they show
that I appear before you as the authorised agent of the House of
Assembly, and under peculiar circumstances, Sir, which I hope
will gain for nie.the kind consideration of the House. Old asso-
ciations may possibly induce me to forget, under the excitement
of the moment, the acknowledged relation in which I stand here.
It may so happen, that in my address to the House, I shall be
called upon to use some strong expressions; and I beg to state, at
this period of my address, that I have a right to use them, I am
here to accuse successive administrations of bad Government in
the province of Canada. I am here to defend, against a Bill of
pains and penalties, the House of Assembly of Lower Canada;
and in defending them I am here to accuse the present Admi-
nistration of high crimes and misdemeanours, and inasmuch
as I do not consider her Majesty's present Ministers
any portion of this House, I am not bound to use towards
them that respectful deference which I should be willing to use
towards this House. Nevertheless, in addressing you, Sir, as
its representative and head, I shall endeavour to maintain all
-ener decorum to the assembled Commons of England. But
pr,• - ecie had now before it two parties to be tried—the
this II"- ' semblv on the one hand, and her Majesty's Mi-
House of As . - -
nisters on the oth::: A Bill of Pains and Poi-4416es is now
"'"use—a Bill of Pains and penalties
on the table of Your ta. through their assembled
against the whole people, that Bill of Pains
representatives and who suggests
and Penalties ? Why, Sir, I shall have to sal," it is shuggeeted
ought
by the guilty parties on this occasion—by those e o
lt
to be punished—and not the House of Assembly. -
shall be my duty to prove in the course of my address,
that every act of the House of Assembly has been go,
verned by the greatest wisdom—that they have acted
in a just and wise policy—advocating no demands which the
interests of their constituents did not require of them to ad.
vanes—that as they have successfully won for themselves, step
by step, their demands, they arc acknowledged to be just;
and at last, when you are now called on to pass a Bill of
Pains and Penalties against the virtuous representations of a
people, that has arisen from a state of things brought about
not by the misconduct of the House of the Assembly, but by
the vacillation, the weakness, the imbecility, and
the strange inconsistency of her Majesty's Ministers,
and not by the conduct of the House of Assembly
of Lower Canada. This, Sir, is the position in which I am
placed. I have to throw myself before the House as the ad-
vocate of the absent—as the advocate of those whom every
one thinks himself at liberty to abuse, and to whom every
base passion and motive has been applied—as the advocate of
those distant parties who are 3,000 miles removed from us, and
who are strua:glingfor their liberties and rights of their country ;
and I hope that I shall not plead in vain to the good feeling
of an assembled body of my countrymen to hear me patiently
while I do all in my power to defend the absent—while I
endeavour to defend those who have no other advocate than
the humble individual who now appears at your bar. You
are about to pass a Bill which would be much more appropri-
ate—which would disgrace the servile inhabitants of Hindostan
—a Bill more calculated for them than for any free and
popularly-represented colonists of Great Britain. It may
be said, Sir, that while I appear here as the advocate of
others, I require to defend myself ; it may be said
that I myself require defence ; but however such things may
be said out of doors, however the epithet of traitor and rebel
may be showered on me out of doors, I am sure that in this
House I shall not be so accused, because it is well known that
here I cannot defend myself. It may be said that in this case
I am an interested party—it has been said that I am
interested in obtaining a separation between the two countries
—a separation between the colony and the mother country.
I entreat Hon. Members to ask themselves whether they
could possibly entertain such opinions from any part of my
conduct? I am an Englishman—l have no hope uncon-
nected with England. I am an Englishman, and have no in-
terests connected with Canada. I have many dear friends
in that country, but while with honour it is possible to keep
up the connect'on between the two countries, no man in the
world will do more to maintain such connection than I will ;
but if such a connection cannot be maintained without dis-
honour, I will be the first to do all in my power to put an end to it.
But, Sir, I beg the House to recollect that all my interests—
personal interests—and interests even of the lowest possible
description, are in favour of a connection with Canada; and let
no man dream or think that I wish to rake up rebellion, or that
it is for my interest to do so. Now, I beg to say in the out-
set of what I have to observe, that I am here to defend the
House of Assembly of Lower Canada. I have nothing to do
with any other Province. I have nothing to do with
any other subject. I am here to defend the House
of Assembly of Lower Canada. I am not here
to justify revolt. Revolt must justify itself. I am not here
to justify it under any circumstances. if revolt be successful
it justifies itself ; if it be not successful it must be fellowed by
obloquy. I make no distinction, Sir. I see rebellious Poland,
and I do not justify Poland. I am not one, and never was,
to pass Acts of Parliament for the support of 'rebellious rights.
I look to Spain—l do not . support rebellion there ; I never
did, Sir, and I hope I never shall. I may look all round
the world ; I look to Belgium, and though England
may have barn bound by the most solemn treaties
to maintain the connexion between Belgium and
Holland, Belgium was successful, and therefore I hope she was
right. But, Sir, I for my own part cannot understand that
class of morality that can have a sympathy for the rebellious
Poles—can speak of them as if they were heroes, and yet talk
with contempt and hatred of the poor peasants of St. Charles.
It may suit some party to say the rebellion in Brussels was an
heroic act—it failed in unfortunate Canada. It may suit some
parties to say they have called into existence a new world,
nernely, the rebellious colonies of Spain, and the same party
may say they have great abhorrence of rebellious Canada.
This, Sir, is a species of fascinating morality I can not un-
derstand. I have nothing to do with revolt ; all I have to
show is, that the House of Assembly of Lower Canada are
in no way connected with it. I will show diet the parth s
who are endeavouring to put upon their backs the
weight of this rebellion, Iwo the parties who ought to bear
it, together with the shuffling policy that would make men be.
lieve that a body of men consisting of 87 or 83, scattered
through a large district of between seven or eight hundred
miles—they and they alone arc the parties—the authors of the
rebellion that took place—those, are the parties who are guilty,
because they do acts which of necessity excite great
feelings of distrust: and yet do nothing to show that the rebel-
lion shall be fruitless. Thus, Sir', having pieced before
the House the parties is he are to be tried, viz. her Ma-
jesty's Ministers on the one hand, and the House of A:-
sembly on the other, I am about to prove to you that
the House of Assembly is not only not guilty, but deserving
of ,the admiration of their own constituents, this country, and
the world, for the magnanimous stand they have made against
*he overwhelming power of Great Britain. I have to lay
before you, Sir, a great number of facts connected with
the history of Canada, upon which the House is to de-
cide whether the House of Assembly toe acted properly
or nor. I shall first go through the statemeuts for the pur-
pose of endeavouring to show that the Bill upon your table is
an unjust Bill. I shall endeavour to show that the Howse of
Assembly are guiltless, and I shall endeavour to prove that the
Bill is an impolitic Bill. I shall then endeavour to show that
there is a method which, if adopted by this Howe, will put an
end to all disagreements ; but that if you once adopt your re-
solutions, war, misery. and calamity will be the consequences.
First, Sir, as to the injustice of this Bill. Sir, I will separete
the history of Lower Canada into four epochs:—first, from
1773 to 1810—secondly, from 1810 to 1828—thirdly, from
1828 to 1834—and fourthly, from 1834 to the present period.
In the year 1774, the French law was introduced into
Lower Canada with certain reservations. The English Cri-
minal Law was established—juries, end certain togljsh rules
of evidence. Now, any lawyer (and I see many before
me, Sir), relay conceive the curious anomalies which
such a mixture would produce—there is a familiar
term which will aptly designate it—" Hotch potelt," To a
civil code, established on French principles, was joined a
criminal law founded on that of England, During the Year
1774, it so happened that the English on the Continent
of North America were in open rebellion. There was a
spirit raised amongst them which rebelled agaleet the
domination of England. They said, " We cannot bear it
any longer ; you seek to impose laws upon us which
are oppressive and tyrannical in their nature, What
did the English do under those circumstances ? They
resorted to the French colonists as a counterpoise to the Eng.
lish, and said to them—" We will put down the puritanical
fanaticism of those fellows." In confirmation of this statement
I will just refer to a speech made by Lord Lyttleton its /774,
to show that there was a dircet intention on the part
of the Government of that day to creeee a French feeling
in the Colony, a feeling that has since been den:et:need as mis-
chievous and abominable, but which was fomented aseel .ohe-
rished as lone' as it suited the corevetsieece of Government to
do so. Lord Lyttleton said, in alluding to tht: apprehensions
which had been expreseed of the increased ponce e eiii%r.l) this
would throw into the hands of the French colon;eee
" that he saw no reason to apprehend any such conse-
quences, that he would employ them to jbdue and bring
to their right seae,ee the rebellious spirits of the e.elenv ; and
fanatic spirit which that from their local sitaittion they would be able to cheek she
appeared tO actuate these persons—a
spirit which like that of the laoue4heaels of England,
was subversive of all law and authority, sieve etheir own.
eagxiasitnesdt,
wwh-hiacthdlidhewaer
pdeor?sonsWhy, w
prate
And now, Sir, to counteract the mischievous spirit tt;at tiien
without e
cherished
u n d e r 3 It'ar
ne
dn
icnhg law,
it—
we cherished French feelings, which certain
persons attempt to

IE:
tneit
call mischievous, and had hopes of creating base prejudices iu
amt inds.
isalAs7teroduisel
paelrliowde
ocfouoludr ehoismtoarkye. thle,
ata,n
sidians
nr, is
the first instance to which I will call the attention of the
House. What is the next ? Why, that in the 18th year of
George 111 . when this House, and the other House of Par-
liament, and all England, received a bitter lesson at the
hands of rebellious colonists, found in their humil.ath n an
acknowledgment of that demand, which, had the; ad-
;
tneteee : it at the commencement of the dispute, would
have mai utained for them the fairest pro,. ir. ce of
North Arnetna ; but which, denied until we were subdued
by arms—.which being denied to the claims of justice, and only
admitted to force, stands as a record to our shame, an I fear
will not much redound to our justice. A declaratory Act
was passed by which it was stated that there should be
no levying of rates or taxes upon the colorests of
Great Britain in North America, without the consent of their
Legislature, and in 1791 that solemn pledge was eiven by
the assembled Parliament of England, that there ,hoeld be
nos levying of taxes, and no appropriation of revenue in
Canada, except by the consent of the Canadian Legislature.
In 1794 communications took place between the Governor
and the Ileuse of Assembly on the subject . of the revenues.
This is a part of the subject which it may be somewhat difficult
to make the House understand. The revenues of the colony
were divided into three branches. First, there were the revenues
levied by the Provincial Act of Parliament ; secondly, there were
the revenues levied by the British Act of Parlian ent ; and
thirdly, there were the revenues raised from casual and terri-
torial sources. The revenues derived from the provincial Acts
of Parliament—it will not be denied me—were under
the control of the House of Assembly. On that there
could be no doubt. But I am now going to lay claim
to the revenues arising from the British Acts of Parliament,
and also to the casual and territorial revenues. To these the
House of Assembly was entitled by the arrangement entered
into by the Governor (Lord Dorchester), whob said to the
Ilouse of Assembly, "if you will transmit the revs n es which
are raised by the Act of the British Parliament into a Civil
List to be raised by the Act of the Canadian Assembly,
we will give you the controul of the whole." Well
they did so—they made the changes as the Governor desired.
Thi. was in 1794; but the Royal assent was not given to
the Canadian Bill at that time. It was given in 1796, and
the pledge given to the House of Assembly at that time had
not been redeemed up till the Ist and 2d of William IV., and
then the) were told that it was a boon on the part of the British
Government to redeem the pledges—that the Government had
done a great deal for Canada, and that the House of
Assembly was guilty of black ingratitude.—( Cries of Hear.)
No—Sir, it is we that have broken faith ; and, up to the
passing of the Act of the 1 and 2 of William the 4th, we
had broken faith with the House of Assembly, and
we are now endeavouring to take advantage of our
own wrong.—( Hear, hear.) I hope the House will
excuse me for reading the correspondence to which I have
alluded, It is exceedingly painful to myself, and I must sup-
pose it to be tedious to the House. [The Learned Gentleman
then .proceeded to read the letter of Lord Dorchester to the
speaker of the House of Assembly of Lower Canada in 1794,
offering te, place under control of that House the casual and ter-
ritorial reietnie, which his Majesty had posssessed from the
time of the Compiest, on the condition that the House
should grant his Majesty a Civil List for the government of
the Colony, without the votes of the British Parliament.]
I hope there will be some attempt to show the injustice of the
demand of the House of Assembly to those territorial reve-
nues thus solemnly given up by Lord Dorchester.
;land want to
hear wherein the injustice arises—wherein it exists
the Ilouse of Assembly is to be assailed by every epithet which
ingenuity can invent for demanding the territorial revenues.
Was not the information contained in that document, on the
part of the Governor, who, being himself an Englishman,
,van accustomed to a representative Government—was not
that information sufficient to induce the House of Assembly to
direct their attention to keep it fixed on the appropriation of
of the monies and the revenues of the country? And did it
not eoutein a solemn pledge on the part of the Government to
give a ill tine revenues to their =trout ?—( Hear, hear.)
The House may be surprised why I urge this point so strongly,
but it is to me matter of vital importance—it is that which the
House of Assembly has elaireed up to the present hour, and it
is for the making of this elairn that they are now to be punished.
In the evidence of John Nelson who has sine's obtained an
unenviable notoriety, it is most distinctly stated that this claim
had never been given up—had never for one moment been
abandoned—in fact this claire, was the 39 articles of their politi-
cal religion. Mr. Nelson is also asked whether there has ever
been any instance where the Colonial Legislature has ever re-
' pealed an English Act ? His answer is most distinctly—no ;
we never pretend to anything of the kind. Such being the
state of atTeirs they continued in the ;erne state up to 1810. The
Government had a certain amount of looney appropriated to
themselves—they did not go beyond that sum ; they did nut call on
the Assembly for more moesay-...they were contented with the
revenue given them. Whenever the House of Assembly
asked what wee done with that money, the anewer was, we are
contented with what we have got, and we will give fto aucnunt of
it. It so happened that fir making that demand certain
members of the House of Assembly were thrown into prison
for making that proposal. Such is the way that Colonies
are governed. Such is the way that irresponsible power
is always used. Why was this the case? The explanation
is clear. Everybody understeede why it was the cave. The
officials of that country—and I ant new about to speak of a
party who were the cause of all the noise that is made now—
the officials said we do not like being paid by the House
of Assembly. Why ? America is an economical coun.
try. England is far from being so, Our scale of
expenditure is wholly unlike the frugal expenditure of
America. The Governor of Lower Canada, a minor
officer, has a; touch pity as time President of the United
States, who is at the head of a nation second to none
upon the earth. What the Americane think sufficient
for the payment of their President is thought by those
who govern these things in Canada as hardll enough to pay
the expenses of a delegated Governor from England. A Ilthe
officers in Canada compare themselves with England, the people
of Canada compare them with America. The people of Canada
say everything in America is done efficiently but done cheaply.
We here deal with millions as if they were thousands, and pay
according to the extravagant rate of our own country. The
parties there were exceedingly desirous of being paid by this
country instead ofbcing paid according to the economical notions
of America. They did all they could to fight off the possibility
'of the co ttroul on the part of this Assembly ; and from this has
arisen all the evils, disputes, ill blood, and opposition that has
arisen in Canada—to the resistance of the official par-
ties to the investigation of their parties. I will trace
everything that has occurred to that cause. I will trace
to that the desire of an Elective Council ; in let I will show
that every mischief that has occurred iu Canada hag been
consequent upon that. In doing so I am obliged to quote
Mr. Nelson's evidence respecting the financial disputes. The
Learned Gentlemen here referred to the evidence Of Mr•
Nelson, and proceeded. This was thought a heinous offence
on the part of the Assembly ; but Sir George Murray in his
dispatch, which is not in this collection—it has doubtless been
omitted fur some particular reason—Sir George ;Murray, in
one of his dispatches, acknowledges that must of necessity be
the cause, that so long as the Government of Lower Canada
asked for no more money than the appropriated revenues all
was right,but the moment they overstepped it, then came the in-
quiry what bad been done with the money. The Learned Gen-
tleman here referred to another part of Mr. Nelson's evidence.
Sir, we hear a great deal about stopping, the supplies.
which
the Legislative Council threw out a Bill of SupPlY
had passed the House of Assembly, on the ground that
;t was not safe to take an annual Bill. Who began the
practice of stopping the supplies? The party predominant in
the Legislative Council. Who are they? Sir, at that time
there was an Eiecutive Council and a Legislative Council—
two in name—one in reality. Time Legislative Council said
" We will escape responsibility and eontroul—we will not
have an annual Civil List—we will have a permanent Civil
List, voted in one round sum ;" therefore they threw out the
Annual Supply Bill; they set the example of refusing sup-
plies to the House of Assembly, and the House will be sur-
prised to hear—l challenge contradiction—that for once that
the House of Assembly have refused supplies, the Legislative
Council have done so three times. Two years only the House
of Assembly have refused supplies; and for that they are to
be deprived of the power of controlling the public expendi-
ture. Then came the famous Union project—a project which
emanated from the very party who are now the controlling
party in Canada.—who -devised and directed the machinery by
whit h the Constitution of the Canadians was taken from them.
Now, Sir, there is one very remarkable circumstance, I
mean the failure of the Receiver-general. I mention this
circumstance ass illustrative of the mode in which colonies are
governed, and of the necessity of a very accurate supervision
on the part of the Legislative Assembly. The Assembly
wanted an account of the money in the hands of the Receiver--
general—the accounts were refused, and the House said we
will appropriate no more money. The Receiver-general
failed—he owed 100,0001. Some one will tell me this is
an ell story. At this moment he owes the money.
It is now 150,0001.—(Hear, hear.) I have heard it
said they have got his estates—his estates do not
cover one-tenth part of the whole sum. At this moment
the chest is empty, and 150,000/. principal and interest have
been robbed frem the Canadian Exchequer. By whom ? By
one of the party who talked about the honour and prerogative'
of the Crown, and said it would be an infringement on such
honenr and prerogative if they were to listen to the demands
of 'the Aseembly. The Assembly said—we'll try you; they
did try him ; he preyed to be a bankrupt; never paid the
money; and the people demanded of this country to pay back
the money which its officer had teken, and this country re-
fuses. Loss" Dalhousie issued warrant; without any order,
without any senetien from the Legislature. The Legislative
Council went further—they threw out every Bill they could
lay their hands on that was of eny possible utility to the coun-
try, and iu V,A27 and 1828, agents were Rent out to this coun-
try complaining of the manifold grievances ureter which that
country laboured—l beg the House to bear in mind the fact
that, they complained of the condteet of the Legislative Council
in throwing ogt various Bills granting the aeceesary sums for
all the expences of tlee. Civil Government in that Province.
in the year 1828 a Committee vas appointed by this House
to taise into consideration the claims of the people of Canada,
and that Ceseas,itece acknowledged the justice of their pow-
plaints and rernonsarerseesesetliey solemnly stated that the Le-
'-'ssjvc Council did net haemotese with the opinions or
wishes of too escoesle----ths?.t geese ehld be spine alteration
in the Legislative 6ouss4 et? harsetopiee
—they did not point out the mean:, ihty !leelai•ed that
the 1/ppse, as then existing, did not harmonize with tie feel,
ings of the pehple. I have now, Sir, got to the year 1828. 1
have got td that year wlsen ;11 the
_demands of the House of
Aseemble, respecting'their Coneret4 (lee their own revenues
were aleetar-ed tt.o be jusi, :to lib wise, and' to he provident. I
come now to that year 1n which the Legislatlie COlsncil ii
condemned—l come to that year in which it is stated that

justice is Lot auniinistereti iii the Ivey in weicti it ought to be
from the peculiar political condition of the judges. And now
all the claims of the House of Asseml ly in the year 1828
having been granted—all its grievances having been redressed
—it is asserted that, instigated by a factious spirit of opposition,
and led on by factious demagogues, they aredesirous of bringing
forward new demands, making new calls on the country, and fabri-
cating new grievances. My assertion is that the old grievances
remain, and that if they have made new demands, is is because
they have discovered that the remedies applied have not been
sufficient to redress these grievances. In the year 1831 a li-
beral Government was formed—a Government accustomed to
declaim against oppression—a Government composed of per-
sons who had been the e.dvocates of the rights of the people
on the opposition benches—a Government composed of persons
who have individaallv declared against the form of that very
Constitution of which the Canadian people complain ; in fact,
the friends of the Canadians were supposed to be in power;
men who have laid down broad principles of liberty—who
have offered their lives for the freedom of their country ; and
in consequence of the declarations of those strong and sworn
supporters of the cause, the feelings of the Canediani were
naturally raised high—their expectations were elevated, and
they said—" Oh, now we have got our liberal friends into '
office, men who told the people of Upper Canada to stop the
supplies if they wanted their Constitution altered ; why, we
have got our friends into power, said they, and shall we not
have a remedy for our grievances ? They indeed expected
those things ; but, like many others, they had been
most egregiously disappointed in what is called a
1 Liberal Government. When this Government first came
into office, it had to consider the alterations proposed by
the Committee of 1828—and what was the chief of those eke-
; rations ? I shall quote a very short passage from the Report
1 of the Committee. One of the subjects to which their in-
quiries were directed was the state of the Legislative Councils
of both Canadas ; and the manner in which they had answered
the enquiries was this :—[The Learned Gentleman then read
an extract from the Report of the Committee, which strongly
recommended that a very great alteration should be made in
the composition of the Legislative Council, and that the ma-
jority of its members ought not to be Officers of the Crown.
The extract also stated the opinion of the Committee, that if
the House of Assembly and the Legislative Council could be
put upon a proper footing, all the minor grievances of the Ca-
nadians would be easily remedied.] In this extract the Com-
mittee showed that they understood to what the desires of the
people of Lower Canada were directed. They saw that the great
desire of the people was the improvement of the Council, and
they stated so much as plainly as men could who wished to take
upon themselves as little responsibility as possible. They said
that a serious alteration must be made in the composition of
that body. Well, the alterations were made, but the people
were not satisfied. They naturally said, " if you choose to put
more men upon the Council it does not follow that you have
altered its character. The majority is still against the people
—you may choose two or three men whom you call inde-
pendent, but they are the very people whom we say
ought not to be in it, and we say that you are
merely keeping the word of promise to the ear,
but that you violate its spirit." That this was really the case
I can show upon authority which Ministers will not im-
pugn. For this I can quote the Report of the Commissioners
appointed by themselves to inquire into the grievances of the
Canadians. [The Learned Gentleman then reed an extract
from the Report of the Commissioners of 1835, strongly con-
demning the co.nposttion of the Legislative Council of that
period.] From this I should infer that- the House of Assem-
bly was justified in saying that the political character of that
body was the same in 1833 as it was in 1828, and that they de-
manded, as might be expected, an elective Legislative Council.
They said " We want to have reforms, but we will do so with
the slightest alteration possible." That was the offer made
by the people of Canada—but it was not acceded to. The
Canadians then said " We are placed in a new position. We
,ave proposed our alterations—they have not met the
ICA'S of the Ministry—therefore we will have more."
hat is the consequence of this ? You fancy that men on the
other side of the water are without feeling—that they may be
nsultednyith impunity—that they may be called all species of
:names with perfect safety. And the then Secretary of State,
`Mr. Stanley, wrote out to the Governor, and immediately said
this was what was called a National Convention—pretty broadly
intimating this was to be a copy of the National Convention of
France. One may easily conceive what inference people drew
from that statement. Why did he liken that Convention of
Assembly to the National Convention of France ? Why, it
was an everyday Convention that took place in America. He
ought to have known, for he had been a traveller in those
parts, that the Conventions were almost a matter of course
when any alterations were proposed in the Constitution of that
country. At this moment a Convention is sitting in Phila-
delphia for the purpose of re-modelling the Constitution
of that great and independent sovereign state. All is
going on quietly ; the people are determined upon
the form of the Constitution—that peaceable people
never think of the wild theories of the National Convention of
France. They had not in their minds Robespierre and Dan-
ton—they had in their minds Franklin, Jefferson, Washington,
end Jay. These were their heroes. But somehow or other,
Sir, our people here are so occupied by everything in their
immediate neighbourhood that they cannot possibly conceive
the state of mind of people in other countries, and then they
all at once cry out—" Oh, good God, we are to have :ill
the horrors of the revolution of 1793," and M. Papineau
is nothing more nor less than the abettor of these
men.—( Hear, hear.) I have heard it gravely stated in this
country—l have heard M. Papineau likened to Robespierre—
I have heard the French Canadians called French Republi-
cans—l have heard the National Assembly likened to the Na-
tional Convention of France—l know that was asserted on
the highest authority, an 1 that it was nothing more nor less
than an attempt to introduce a set of demagogues in the country
I say, Sir, when the House of Assembly received this sties.
ment they were, very naturally, highly incensed. They'
stated that the Right Hon. Gentleman must have known the
state of the country. I think they were wrong in that. He
knew nothing about it. I am sure he did not. And the
House of Assembly were, therefore, grossly in error ; but it
was a pardonable one. Although he knew nothing of the
country, yet he brought forward measures which were to regulate
it. The House of Assembly were greatly incensed—they said
this is an insult to tie. Added to this there was another source
of grievance—they said, you have added to your Legislative
Council—you butcher our people ; and, added to this, they
recollected also that a circumstance had taken place at
Montreal which would never be forgotten, namely, the shoot-
ing of the peasants at St. Denis. They said that Govern-
ment is not parental that sanctions such things in a country
so peaceful, that no disturbance which required even the in-
terference of a constable's staff had taken place. The
people of Canada have never forgotten that, and they
never will. Recent events, too, have only served to render
still deeper that already unfavourable impression whieli
the Canadian people have to this country. I say, Sir, that if
you do not take care what course you pursue, something will
come that will read you a lesson of humility after the fashion
our ancestors were humiliated. Sir, I have now brought
down this subject to the year 1834. In that year the first
real and sincere determination to stop the supplies took place.
In that year there were no -supplies, but the House of As-
sembly passed resolutions, as they had done before,
stating their grievances. A Committee was appointed,
but that Committee came to an untimely end, Sir,
Mr. S. Rice succeeded Mr. Stanley at the Colonial-
office, and in an interview which lie had with two gentlemen
agents of the Assembly and myself, he said he was anxious to
do justice to the Canadian.. We had scarcely left
the office, when a despatch was penned, directing the
Governor of Lower Canada to pay the officials whom
the Assembly had determined not to pay ; and he sup-
posed that be had got out of the difficulty by the special plea,
that he did not, as Lord Dalhousie had done, take the money
out of the public chest, but ordered the Governor to pay
the officials—drawing upon the Treasury for the money.
No wonder for the House of Assembly to' be incensed, and to
complain of the conduct of the Governor in paying the Civil
List. In IBIS they had come to the determination to refuse
the supplies until their grievances were redressed. In
1835, however, they found the Governor Lad paid the
amount of the Civil List, and naturally incensed at
this they again refused the supplies for 1835.—( Hear. )
Unfortunately for the good intentions of Mr. Spring Rice, it
did happen that just at the very instant that that plan, that
gicat anti statesmanlike aff iir, that was to startle all beholders,
was to issue from the Colonial Office—it so happened that on
that day, as the Right Hon. Gentleman was passing down
Pall-mall, he met a gentleman, and told him that he was out
of office. Well now, but there is one remarkable circumstance
before he went out of office, to which I would wish to call
the attention of the House, because it was brought as a charge
against the House of Assembly that they were as little caretul
of the independence of the judicature of the country, that be-
cause a certain gentleman held an opinion contrary to them
they withheld his salary, and would not put it into the Civil
List, and thence it is concluded that the House of Assembly
desire to exercise an improper control over the judicature of
the country. Now it so happens, that before Mr. Spring
Rice went out of office he heard of the appointment of Mr.
Justice Gale, and when called upon to allow his appeintment,
the Right Hon. Gentleman wrote to the Colonial Governor.
[Here the Learned Gentleman reed the letter. We have
not a copy of it ; but it was to this effect : That it was at all
times of the highest importance, and more especially at a mo-
ment like that which then existed, that no person partaking of
the character of a political partisan should be placed upon the
bench in Lower Canada. He hoped, therefore, that the Ca-
nadian bar would be found capable of furnishing some gentle-
man of more calm and temperate views than the individual re-
commended. When he adverted to the line of conduct taken
by Mr. Gale is 1828, and to his connection with certain mea-
sures of that time, he (Mr. S. Rice) very much feared that he
would be looked upon with distrust by a very coc3ithica,ble por-
tion of the community in Canada, Under these circumstances
(lie added) lie was not disposed to recommend the confir-
mation of Mr. Gale's appointment]. Now, Government news
did not travel very fast, as he ( Mr, Roebuck) had reesen to
know ; and it so happened stint the tows which carried out
the Right Honourable Gentleman's dismissal from office
travelled more rapidly than the Right Honourable Gentle-
man's refeleal to confirm the appointment of Mr. Jus-
tice Gale. Lord )sylmer, therPfolT? iinqing that the Right
ilenouraisle Gentleman had been dismissed, and having
received no eoreenumeatien from him relative to Mr. Justice
Gale, trick it upon hirnsete tq conllrm thqt gentleman in his
seat upon the bench, at the same time wriciiig to 1,.0rd Aber-
deen, the new Secretary for the Colonies, stating the reasons
why the did Ito! 1-,Ard Aliefcleep theegh; the elrtaliatiop stAlli-
cent, and aliowecl Mr, 444stic.e slate eo remain upon the bench.
But the House of Assembly was of opinion that a man whose
conduct had been such as to give rise to such grave and serious
objections on the part of the previous Secretary for the Colo-
could never be expected to gain the eonAdinsee of a
greee portion of the cOmp44,4y over' whicb heewal 'id` 'act as
said liou4e of Assembly, " we,

being the representatives of the community, and knowing that
justice depends for half or more than half its influence upon
the opinion of the people for whom it is administered—know-
ing, too, what the opinions of the people are with respect to
Mr. Justice Gale, and seeing that his conduct has been
so solemnly impugned by the head of the Colonial de
partment in England, we, in our representative capacity, and
acting in accordance with the vices of Mr. Spring Rice,
will not allow his salary." This was the true history
of the matter with respect to Mr. Justice Gale ; and when
charges were brought against the House of Assembly he
wished to know why the whole truth was not told ? He
(Mr. Roebuck) remembered a great impression being once
made upon the House of Commons by the statement of a Co-
lonial Secretary that the House of Assembly (against which
the Secretary wanted at that time to make out a case) had
refused to reimburse Lord Aylmer for the expense he had been
put to in his efforts to protect the colony from the visitation of
the cholera. It was said that Lord Aylmer had expended
7,0001. for that purpose, and that the House of Assembly had
refused to repay him, upon the ground that he had exceeded
his authority in making the disbursement. A statement of
that kind was made by a gentleman filling the situation of
Colonial Secretary ; but it was afterwards proved that that
gentleman must have been guilty of some culpable negligence
in reading or arranging his information, as every one of his as-
sertions turned out to be untrue. In the first place the sum
expended was 7001., not 7,0001. ; and in the second place
Lord Aylmer, when he applied to the House of Assembly,
was repaid at once. Yet months went over, during which
the impression obtained against the House of Assembly that
they were so base, so bad, so dishonest, so utterly heartless,
as to refuse the repayment of a sum which had been expended
for a purpose so humane and necessary as that of endeavouring
to prevent the access of a terrible pestilence. The person who
made that statement was Mr. Stanley. This was the way, in-
deed, in which successive Governments talked of the House of
Assembly, and it unfortunately happened that the House of As-
sembly was not here to answer for itself, nor could its defence
be attempted, except by chance, and by the voice of one man
against the voices of a hundred. He (Mr. Roebuck) re.
membered in earlier days reading the history of one of the
matchless characters of antiquity, who said that his character
had been assailed for a life, and could not be defended in an
hour—that his assailants had occupied many years in poison.
ing the public mind against his character, and that when he
was brought to the bar of trial for life or death he felt himself
in such a position that he could not wipe off the stain which
those artful assailants had been careful to implant upon the
public mind : he felt, therefore, that he stood before a jury
almost condemned before he was heard. That matchless
character, with whom he (Mr. Roebuck) became acquainted
in the course of his scholastic reading, was Socrates. Like
the life-long, assailants of Socrates, men were in the habit of
getting up in that House, and with a total disregard of truth,
or a total ignorance of facts, and making assertions with re-
spect to the House of Assembly which they knew could riot be
answered, except after the lapse of a considerable time, during
which the poison of their statements would be allowed to
eat its way in the public mind. Statements of this kind had
frequently been made by persons holding high and responsible
situations in the Government, but who seemed utterly care-
less of whether their statements were true or false as long as
they produced the impression desired. He (Mr. Roebuck)
raaintained that this partial dealing with the truth, this
garbling with evidence, was more fitting to Old Bailey prac-
titioners than to those who advised her Majesty and directed
the councils of the State. He would now return to the

stream of his narrative. Upon the dismissal of Mr. Spring
Rice, Lord Aberdeen was appointed to the Colonial Secre-
taryship, and with the Administration of whichthat Noble Lord
was a member, was originated the bright idea of a Commis-
sioner, and a Commissioner was in consequence appointed.
But it so happened that the Government of which Lord
Aberdeen was a member did not stand—it was not permanent.
The succeeding Administration, however, was exceedingly
delighted with the idea of the Commission. But, not
wishing to take anything which assumed the appearance of an
improvement from their opponents, they determined to do
something that should be their own, and with characteristic
intelligence and zeal they at once destroyed everything that
was good in the Commission; for, instead of confining the
responsibility of the Commission to one man, they determined
to extend it to three. And how did they extend it ? What

character did they give to their Commission ? The com-
pounded it of three different sets of politicians. Of these three
Commissioners the first was a High Tory, the second (the term
seemed contradictory, but there was no other to supply its
place) a Tory-Whig, and the third a Radical-Whig. These
three men went out to Canada, bound together by one Secre-
tary. What did they go to do ? To inquire. True, they went
to inquire, but what about? The grievances of the people. But
the grievances of the, people were best reflected by the body
which had been elected as the representative of this whole of
them. The House of Assembly, therefore, very properly
said, " We are the people ; we are returned as the represents
tatives of the people, in a manner which you cannot impogn—
you do not pretend to say that we do not represent the opinions
and feeling of the great majority of the peoplo—why, there-
fore, send out a Commission to supers_ede us, who assemble
here under the sanction of an Act of the British Legislatare,
whilst the Commission comes out only under an order of the
Crown ?" However, the Commission went out, tiud if he (Mr.
Roebuck) wanted anything that should luatilY in every parti-
cular the proceedings of the House of Assembly in Lower
Canada, he would point to the Report of the Commissioners
to furnish him with that justification. Every part c.,f it atiOrdeci
a complete justification for every act of that branch of the Co-
lonial Legislature. First and foremost, there was a sort of
sec-saw as regarded the Constitntien, but all the facts adduced
in the Report went to thQ complete justification, cif the House
of Assembly. Thera was a good deal of parade about the
Report-a.a good deal of sound and fury I first, there was the
full broadside of the Commissima, Then the single gun of Si;
Charles Grey, and then the replication of Sir George Gipps,
and what between the broadside, the single gun, and the re-
plication; there was a vast deal of confoaism in the Report ; but
those who were enabled to see their way clearly through it could
not fail of arriving at the peasolusion that in every particular the
House of Assembly, had been right. He would read a passage
from the Hopurt, which, if it had an) meaning at all, would
go directly to the proof of that aaaertion. He quoted, now
from the general Report—eha general broadside of the Com-
missioners. The passage ran thus :—For a number of years
the Council, keeping, as it did, in close union with the Exe.
outive prevailed ; but in process (If rinse the inherent fore of
a popular Assembly developed itself ; and in the went con-
test that ensued ebout money matters the A;;L:.wribly came out
completely successful." That was to say, that in a dispute
, which had lasted from the yeax 18t0 to the year 1E1.2&, the
Assembly at length prevailed. It was to be atsumed, then,
that the Assembly was right. " During the financial strug-
gle, continued as it was for more than a quarter of a century,
it was only natural that other oellateral causes of difference
should arise ; and, if we were to examine into these, we be-
lieve that we should also find that in every one of them the
Assembly has carried its point." That was to say, that for
upwards of a quarter of a century the House of Assembly had
not demanded a single ilt:ng which was not ultimately granted
to them; the inference, of course, was, that they had de-
manded only that which was right.—( Hear, hear.) The Com.
missioners continued—" Asa few instances we will mention
the right of the Howie to accuse and bring to trial public offi-
cers ; their right to appoint an agent in England"—he (Mr.
Roebuck hoped that that would satisfy the House at least upon
the point of agency—" and their right to controul their own
e expenses; their demand for the withdrawal of the
judges political affairs or from seats in the legislative
tinge
fromnt
bodies or the executive councils, and to: the surrender of the
proceeds of the Jesuista' estates. All these are points on
which contests have taken place between the two Houses, and
in every one of them the popular branch has prevailed, -and the
Council been successively driven from every position it had
attempted to maintain. The Assembly, at the same tiuw„ by
attacking abuses in the administration, and bringing charges
against numerous officers of the executive, succeeded scarcely
1.63 in exposing the weakness of the Government than of the
Council." It was very strange that the word " weakness"
should be introduced into that part of the Report. How was
it that the House of Assembly became successful ? Not be-
cause the Government was weak—the Government was
strong enough if it pleased to put down the House of As.
sentbly—the reason why the Assembly succeeded was be-
cense the Government was wrong. The Report proceeded :
Both the Council and the Government have been worsted
in many a struggle that they never ought to have engaged
in; and if the Assembly has in consequence grown pre-
sumptuous, we apprehend that such is only the ordinary
effect of an unchecked course of succeaa." The next
was, he thought, one of the most extraordinary state-
ments ever put forward upon a, sithject of this kind -,—ln
the course of these protracted disputes, too, it has happened
that the Assembly, composed almost entirely of French Ca-
nadians, have constantly figured as the aesortors of popular
riehts, and as the advocates of liberal institutions, whilst
the Council, in which the English interest prevails, have, on
the other hand, been made to appear as the supporters of ar-
bitrary power, and of antiquated political doctrines; and to
this alone we are persuaded the fact is to he attributed that
the majority of settlers from the united States have hitherto
sided with the French rather than the English party, The
representatives of the counties of Stunstead and Missisquoi
have not been sent to Parliament to defend the feudal sys-
tern, to protect the French language, or to oppose a system
of registration. They have hoe'n sent to lend their aid to the
assertors of popular Tights, and to oppose a Government by
which, in their opinion, settlers from the United States have
been neglected or regarded with disfavour." Now, he
begged the House to observe iti the next sentence the man-
ner in which the Lni7,lative Council sought to extend Bri-
tish feelings, and to protect British interests in the province.
If he understood anything about English feelings or English
interest in the colony, it would niean this : that English
feelings were in favn,nr :.; a free representative gOVuzi-
ment, and opp9seci t., everything which had the appearance
of arl4tl'lo:y power—that English feelings were in favour of
municipal institutions which subsiste.d, iii England, and op-
posed to the system of aeia.satrzation which obtained in
France. The cowsilissionere went on to say s-sa" Even
during Qtr aesidence in the province we have ,C,t3Fl -the Council
continue to act in the same spirit, and discard what we be-
lieve would have proved a moat sanitary measure, in a manner
which can hardly 16e taken otherwise than to indicate at
least a coldness towards the establishment, oi. customs calcu-
lated to exercise the judgment ~,n4 promote the general im-
provement of the petnaiee ate allude to a Bill for enabling.
parishes 0 losnihips to elect local officers and assess them-
selves for local purposes, which measure, though not abso-
lutely rejected, was suffered to fa'l to a way that &lased no
friendliriess to the prine4Ae.ts i!,kes(,‘OksiA a see that principle?
The principle., eieslreeeettatlae.
' 1 often ti9,i,i 6t ifi'm lisegislative Assembly was the great assertor
goaernment. They were very
and vindicator of the English interest in Canada. He (Mr. Roe-
buck) asserted the precise contrary ; and he quoted evidence
from the report of the Commisaiosseas themselves to show that

in the mils' instances in which it had ever done anything it had
done all it could to support, protect, and maintain the prin-
ciples of arbitrary power. He had prsv:d
i that the Legis-
lative Council was French so far forth es t was favourable
to its oen arbitrary power, and English so far forth as it
could create a prejudice against the House of Assembly.
—[liero the Learned Gentleman became for some moments
inaudible.] When we next heasd him he was saying that
first and foremost he must observe how remarkable it was that
Witesh merchants on going out to Canada should all at once
be so very much struck at ;he absence of a registration-office
in that country, when, as was well known, there was no ge-
neral registration-office in England. It was a curious fact
that in this country, with the exception of the counties of
Middlesex and York, there was no office for the re.
gistratiun of deeds, mortgages, &e. How was it, then, that
merchants on going to Canada all at once discovered that
an establishment of that kind was essential to the pro-
tection of their interests ? Some ingenious person might,
perhaps, discover the cause; but he (Mr. Roebuck) confessed
that it came not within the scope of his powers of penetra-
tion. In the midst of all the contention upon the subject,
it bed invariably happened that the House of Assembly had
wished to promote all the real and substantial advantagesof
an office of registration ; but they said, " We will not pass
such a Bill as shall throw the poor persons of the country
into the hands of a notary," Perhaps the House would ex-
cuse him if he entered into a short explanation upon
the point. It so happened that under the old English law
mortgages might be effected upon laud over and over again,
and for more than twice its value, without the possibility
of inflicting any kind of punishment upon the person by
whom the money was obtained. But by the French law, if:
a mortgage for more that the value of the land were of it would come within the scope of a law known under
the generic term of " Stcllionat," and which meant nothing
more nor less than that an offence of this kind amounted to
felony. The House of Assembly found that in consequence
of the wholesale introduction of the English law io the mari-
ner of which he (Mr. Roebuck) had already complained, no
punishment was attached to an offence which they had always
previously been taught to regard as a crime. They fonnd.
that, according to the English law, which was new to them, a
person who mortgaged his land for more than its value could
not be punished. " Therefore," said the House of Assembly,
" we will endeavour to get at this class of offenders by esta-
blishing a law which shall be in accordance with our old law
of Stellionat.'" A Bill having that object in view accord-
ingly passed through the House of Assembly, but the Le-
gisletive Council threw it out. And yet the Legislative
Council called itself the defender and asserter of English
interests in the colony, and constantly complained of the
absence of an office of registration. In the Bill passed by
the House of Assembly the means were afforded of esta-
blishing a registration-office, or an institution that, in all
respects, should be tantamount to such an office ; but the
Legislative Council refused to take it. Why ? Because,
in reality and in truth, they did not desire to see a sys-
tem of registration established—they did not desire to make
fraudulent mortgages a crime, but they did desire to have
the means of creating a prejudice against the House of
Assembly. If there were one thing which more than another
distinguished the institutions of England, it was the manner
in which all local affairs were left to the management and con-
troul of local authorities. In this respect the institutions of
England afforded a strong contrast to those of France, where
the pernicious system of centralization placed the management
of all the affairs of the country in the capital. He would ex-
plain this point in a few words, by quoting the language of
Mr. John Neilson, to whose testimony he liked to refer. Mr.
Neilson, in his examination before the Committee of 182 S, was
asked," Are persons who settle in the townships, holding land
upon the English tenure of free and common soccage, exposed
to any other difficulties than those which arise in the adminis-
tration of the Courts of law ?" Mr. Neilson replied, "I do
not think that those people complain of anything except that
they are far out of the way ; because, unfortunately, the
grants were made to them in a remote part, in preference
to the grants being made nearer to the St. Lawrence. But
their great object has been to obtain a representative in the
Assembly of the province ; and they have met in their usual
way upon Stumstead Plain, and have declared that they-
, were satisfied with the Bill that was passed in the Assembly,
and they have petitioned the Assembly and the Council to
pass that Bill. They say that in the event of that Bill pass-
ing, they think they can get a remedy for all their grievances;
that the first thing they want is to get a representation in the
assembly of the Province, and the assembly of the Province is
willing to join them in redressing their grievances ; but any
person that by chance happens to have connection with the
tsiwnsliips, goes and speaks as if he was deputed by the town-
ships. We have had twenty different stories told us in that
way; but the moment they have representatives of their own
to speak for them, everybody will believe them, and there is
no doubt they will get a remedy for everything they complain
of. There is one thing that is desired to give them, which
they have in the United States, and that is the power of regu-
lating their own little local concerns, which, I conceive, con-
trihetes very much to the prosperity of the United States ;
every district of the country regulates matters of common con-
venience, such as roads and bridges—what can be done by an
individual is done by a common effort of the whole community,
as determined by the majority; whereas in the townships they
(sett get nothing done without delays and expenses." Mr.
Neilson was then asked to " describe the difference be-
tween the state of things in that respect in Canada
and i s the United States?" He answered in these
teems In Canada we have been plagued with an
old French system of government : that is to say, a
Government in which the people have no concern
whatsoever, every thing must proceed from the city of Quebec
and the city of Montreal, and persons must come to the city
of Quebec and the city of Montreal to do every thing, instead
of being able to do for themselves in their own localities. In
the United States they have the English system, by which
every locality has certain powers of regulating its own con-
cerns, by which moans they regulate them cheap, r and better;
whereas with us a man must make a journey to Quebec ; he
must go to a great expence; he must bow to this mars
and bow to that man, and rap at this door and rap at that
door, and spend days and weeks to effect a little improvement
of a road, or something of that kind, of common convenience
to a district ; whereas all that is done in the United States
without going out of his own small district." Now that was
precisely what the House of Assembly wanted to do. They
passed a Bill—passed it more than once, by which the
people in the townships, against whom they were supposed
to entertain so strong an animosity, were to have the con-
troul of their own concerns. The Legislative Council, how-
ever, invariably threw out the Bill, because they said it
was tainted with the principle of representation. Could
anything afford a stronger proof that the real support of
English interests was in the House of Assembly, and
that the Legislative Council was the advocate only of those
narrow and arbitrary views which were diametrically opposed
to every English feeling? He now came to the demand of
the House of Assembly for an Elective Council. He had
shown that this demand was warranted, first by the report of
the Corients!ioners, and next by the conduct of the Legislative
Council, which conduct had been SG bad as to give rise to the
admission, even amongst those by whom it was supported, that
it required reform. lie had shown that the Council was now
in precisely the same state as it was when that admission was
made. He had shown that the people themselves were dis-
satisfied with it; and finally he had shown that the House of
Assembly had asked in a quiet, decorous, and respectful man-
ner that the people of the country might be allowed to meet in
a national convention to determine whether or not the Elective
Council were fit for them. The answer of the House of Com-
mons to that demand last year was a peremptory refusal ; but
at the same time the House of Commons gravely and solemnly
stated by its resolutions, that the Legislative Council required
reform. Upon that occasion the House of Commons again so-
lemnly maintained the demand of the House of Assembly for a
reform of the Legislative Council ; for, in the resolutions
-which were passed at the same time that an Elective Council
was refused, the House said " Nu—we will slot grant you the
Elective Council, hut we see that you must have a reform in
your Legislative Council ; at the same time we will take away
your money, because for the last two years you have refused to
vote the supplies"—and because the House of Commons could
not pass a Bill in time to sanction the taking away the money,
they sent out to the Governor of the colony instructions to ask
the House of Assembly again to vote the supply. He now
came to what he must regard as the very peculiar proceeding
of the present Government in the dispute with the House of
Assembly. The House of Commons and the House of Lords
had voluntarily declared, in a series of resolutions to which
they had severally and mutually agreed, that a reform in the
Legislative Council was needed : at the same time they bade
the colonial Governor demand the supplies of the House of
Assembly, after having infringed the constitutional lights of
that body in the most marked and extraordinary manner. He
(Mr. Roebuck) said lie would be frank in this matter. He
knew what would take place in Canada. He told the
House what would take place, and his prophecies were verified
to the letter. When the resolutions of last year went out
the necessary consequence was that every man in ere
colony asked himself " Are we to bear this?" What is the
alternative ? It is clear that the Imperial Parliament, para-
mount in England, and indeed over the whole of its
great empire, has decided against us ; we have, therefore,
uo hope through the ordinary means of obtaining our de-
sir: s." "Is there, then, no alternative ?" was the national
question which every man put to himself. It was put by
the leaders of the people to the people themselves; and the
answer of the people was, " The power of the Impe-
rial Parliament is so great that it may override us under
aly cireumstanres ; therefore, we must submit." The
determination, come to by the leaders was, to counsel
the people to submit. He did not say that they did not ex-
pect a day to arrive when some other alternative might not
present i self ; but the result was, they determined to sub-
mit. At the same time they said, "We are to be called
together by the Governor—he is to present to us the resolu-
tioce of the House of Commons and the House of Lords.
Those resolutions a-u to be presented to us as a whole, and
if the Governor gives us a fair opportunity of saying to our
constituents that we have done all that we could do, and
that all has been done for them that the Parliament of
Gaeat Britain has determined we must yield, and for the
present submit to the demands of the Government." Such
were the feelings—and he (Mr. Roebuck) was bold in saying
these things—he would pledge himself that such were the
feelings and intentions with which the members of the
House of Assembly vent to Quebec. The resolutions were
placed before them as a whole, but what was the demand of
Fire Governor ? Money, money, money ! But, said the House
of Assembly, " iS ...here not something else in the resolutions?
Is it all menesa, money, money ? Is there not sonic acknowledg-
ment eielbuse in the resolutions? Are you come only to ask for
money ? Have you not any authority fur effecting some altera-
tion in the Legislative Council ?" Why did they ask this? Be-
causs, in point of fact, there had been circulated in Montrei!l,
with a vast of demi-official authority, a Hat of the new Council

That list was withdrawn. It was not acted upou : and for r prosperous days I have thought myself honoured by the friend-
four long months things went on shilly-shally dilly-dally— ship of Mr. Papineau. I think myself so honoured now ; and
the colonial department on one side and Lord Gosferd on the when I review the political career of that man, raised as he
other, with a great country there in a state next to revolu- has been to eminence by the sole power of his intellect, eeith-
don, and with a representative body anxious for an excuse— out the employment of one single disgraceful proceeding, I
anxious for the means of saying to the people, "We have got look in vain through the whole of that career for one act
all we can, ell that the Imperial Parliament have proposed, which deserves reprobation. True it is that he denounced in
and we must submit." But what was it they sent? They strong language the conduct of your colonial administration.
sent the Governor wita these resolutions in his hands, but with f myself have equally condemned that administration ; and if
nothing of redress, nothing to satisfy the pride as well as the there be guilt in saying that Canada has been ill-governed,
vanity of these people; nothing conciliatory, but all that that her grievances have been left unredressed, that her
was grasping after money, money, money. At whose door did oppressors are men ever cruel, and now exasperated, I
tall this lie? Why, at the imbecility of the Colonial Office. Sir, am willing to partake of that guilt. Talk to me
Did the House believe that if there had been a man of weight of being frightened at being called a traitor; at being
and of mind to lead in these affairs there could have been told that my life is forfeited ; at the Newspapers set-
such delay upon such important points ? Good God ! to ting forth that I am to be sent to the Tower ? Yes, the
those who sent out all sorts of people to all sorts of places Government organs and other portions of the press have en-
were there no means of sending out a man post-haste to the deavoured to excite the people against me, and induce them
Governor of Lower Canada, begging him, for God's sake, to to believe that I and my friends could desire that which Eng-
go dawn to the House of Assembly with a proposition for an land could view as dishonourable. Do you think that lam
altered Legislative Council, at least before he asked for mo- to be frightened by such petty warfare? If Ibe guilty why
eney ? Entreating. him not to insult that Assembly, not to are there not those who dare accuse me lawfully? I want to
say to them, "We do not care any thing for your feelings, know what is thought of the courage of those men who dare
you who represent the feelings of the whole body of the make these anonymous accusations, but have not the courage
ople. True it is we admit that the Legislntive Council to support them by a criminal prosecution ? My papers have
have done all that is mischievous; this we admit by the re- been seized.—(Considerable sensation.) Let them be pro-
port of our Commission—this we admit by the solemn cen- duced. I have not run away; because I know that there is a I
sure of a resolution of Parliament—all this to us is as nought jury in England who will render justice to the accused, and-
-we have the power to ask for money, and that is all we re- (the Learned Gentleman here suddenly dropped his voice so.
gard." Why, any man of common sagacity would conceive, as to render the close of the srntence inaudible.] Where is
that at least it was intended, when communicating those reso- the ground of all this accusation ? What lam anxious for is,
lutions to the House of Assembly, that the Governor should to get laid before the people of this country whatever justifiea-
go down with sonic such proposition as that of a thorough in- tion may he urged for all the persecutions thathave been inflict-
vestigation into the abuses of the Council. Why was that not ed on the people of Lower Canada by the executive power. I
done? It must be supposed that justice was esker! ; that the want to know upon what grounds ajustification can be put forth
Colonial-office was in that happy state of repose in which it for harrassing, persecuting, and putting into gaol a whole body
could not even hear the murmurs of the people, although they of men who have been the leaders of that people fir a quarter
were so loud as to startle every one else. Nothing could of a century, upon the mere affidavits and partial statements
awake it from its slumbers. What cared the Colonial-office of persons whom the Executive Government know to have'
at the Canadian people being insulted by this mode of pro- been suborned? And yet, with all this power in your hands,
ceeding ? It was a very easy thing to get at the Exchequer ; you proceed to suspend the Habeas Corpus Act and annul
therefore, if a revolt did take place, why, it must be put down. the Constitution. It may he conceived that to suspend the
It might cost somethieg, to be sure, but that could not be Constitution was a happy thought. It is an act you have
helped; besides, an opportunity might at the same time be long desired, but you dared not do it until you got the
obtained of putting down the House of. Assembly, and that people frightened by your proceedings into a revolt. But
was something. Well, what took place besides? Before Lord why stop here ? Why not suspend the Constitution of
Gosford met the House of Assembly he was exceedingly care- Upper Canada ? There is a revolt, and you have not heard
full to insult the leader of the people there. It was well known the last of it. Why not suspend the Constitution of New.
that three months before the meeting of the House of Assem- foundland ? There is a stoppage of supplies, and you have
bly Mr. Papineau attended various meetings of the people. not heard the last of it. How comes it, by-the-bye. that
The leaders of the people discovered at the time of these we never hear, through the medium of the Colonial Office,
public meetings that the people were not prepared for of some things that are taking place there as well as in
the alternative to which he (Mr. Roebuck) had alluded. Canada ? How happens it that at the last election in New-
'What did Lord Gosford do? He waited three months, and foundland you had cannon planted on the hill command-
then he did that which all the advocates of Canada had been inn the hustings, loaded with grape shot ? If you deny
unable hitherto to do—he brought the grievances home to these things, I tall you there are men here who can prove
every man's door. Hitherto the advocates of Canada had been it; and yet you wonder that your colonies do not entertain
obliged to address the Canadian people through their under- a feeling of gratitude and consideration for--that happy
standings. They said to them—and he (Mr. Roebuck) ac- metaphor of yours—the mother country ! Let me carry out
knowledged that he was one who did so—" These are en your metaphor, and call her step-mother. If, after this
croaci:ments upon your privileges—watch them well. The statement which I have made, gentlemen are still prepared
effect, though not mischievous now, may be so hereafter. to do what they arc now called upon by the Government
The words of Lord Gosford may be a warning to you." This to do, I wish to know whether they will say that any case
was a warning to the nation: but being in themselves happy, has been made out against the House of Assembly. I address
and not disposed to do anything violent, those good people, myself particularly in this ease to that class of politicians
although they did support systematically their represents- who are, by favour, called Liberals. I want to know how
tives, yet they did nothing more. But Lord Gosford came they will distinguish these acts of power towards the people of
and dismissed by wholesale the militia officers and rnagis- Canada from those which were committed by this country pre_
trates, thereby making every mart feel himself personally vious to the American revolution? "Oh !" says one, "we
insulted—and these were the people he was to conciliate ! don't tax them." No ; but you allow the House of Assembly
Could anybody wonder, after seeing that the resolutions to tax them, and then take their money- when they have been
mere not carried out, and after seeing that nothing was done taxed. And, furthermore, is it nothing to suspend the Con-
to satisfy one of their just demands, the justice of them stitution? After taking away their money, you proceed to
acknowledged over and over again, that the members deprive them of their constitutional system, notwithstanding
of the House of Assembly should say, "We will not their approximation to a nation for whose institutions the Ca-
be accessory, by paying this money, to our own dishonour nadian people entertain the strongest predilection. There is
and disgrace. We will not yield to this unrighteous de- the same prevailing feeling in favour of the republican princi-
mand?" Well, the House of Assembly separated, and pie on the part of the various States of North America, as
then what happened? Lord Gosford proceeded to revise the there exists in Europe for the monarchical principle, or in the
magistracy. He did not, indeed, dismiss every person from East for the despotic principle. Can you wonder, then, if
the Commission who entertained liberal sentiments; but he there should arise in the Uuited States a strong feeling of
dismissed almost every one. He dismissed men who were sympathy for those people who are now reduced to the
riot accused of any crime—rnen belonging to no faction, not crouching condition and the servile state of slaves?
taking any part in politics. And what did he do next, and They are now to be governed by a Governor in
that without any ado, knowing what was the state of the law Council—they who have been made to understand the full be-
in that country ? The Legislative Council took care of that, refit of a Representative Government ; they who see that
Nay, the Government at tone acknowledged that the Orange principle on the other side of an imaginary line constantly
Party there was so thoroughly ferocious that they were obliged acting in full vigour, and in all peace and quietness. Corn-
lo send out officers from this country to officer the militia in paring themselves with those men, they say, " We are your
Canada. At that time the Sheriff of Montreal was appointed equals; why should we be deprived of those institutions
by the Governor, and was subject to dismissal by hint; the which we hold dear? Why? Because we are weak. If we
mere magistrates and judges also were made by the Governor, were strong England would be just, but we are weak and she
and likewise subject to dismissal by him. Well, in this state is unjust." Sir, you have granted rights to those who knew
of things he issued orders wholesale to try all those persons their power, and who, knowing, used it. It was by the
who were the leaders of the people for high treason, for power of their arms that the United States of America be-
speeches 'which they had delivered full three months be- came free. The best rights of this country have been gained
fore. And what was it that those persons said ? Pre- by arms. You taught the people of Canada the very lesson
cisely what every man of common sense would have said, they have now carried out. I myself have seen in this metro-
that to be tried by a Jury chosen by such a Sheriff, and polls things done and said during the passing of the Reform
before such a Judge, was nothing more nor less titan con- Bill that, if you talk of treason, were ten thousand times
demnation before trial. Every body knew (they had ex- worse than any thing that has been done in Canada.
perience near home) what an Orange Jury would do. Those And who did these things? The Liberal party. Who
persons naturally said, "We are not willing to stand the re- consented to their being done, and profited by them ? A
suit of such a trial," and as many of them as could conse- Liberal Administration. And .then you wonder at what
quently went away; and this was called running away—this is going on in Canada, and pretend to see a distinction which
etas called dastardly ! It was a most natural thing, but it neither Washington nor Franklin could discover. The
seemed to him to he very easy to be valiant in other persons' people of Canada say to the people of the United States,
places ; but he should like for those persons alto spoke thus " We are in the same position that you were formerly in, but
of his (Mr. Roebuck's) friends over the water to he precisely unfortunately we are only one million, while you are thirteen."
in tNesame position with them. They were said to be cowards At the time of the revolution, indeed, the United States were
and to have fled from those whom they excited to revolt. about three millions, but England is now an overwhelming
First ate foremost, if they had staid in the country they power, while then she was not equal to combat with the world.
would have been in prison, and then how could they have Sir, can any man who reads the history of nations aright fail
been with the people whom they were accused of deserting? to condemn the impoliey of these proceedings? I entreat
If not with them how could they be said to have excited the this House to view the consequences that will naturally result
people? And furthermore, he wanted to know, they having from this disastrous question. I see on the other side of the
gone out of the country, how it could be said that they ex- St. Lawrence a nation now so powerful that we can hardly
cited the people? Hut he would tell the House how these measure its extent—a nation that has now dominion from:
people were excited, and when they had heard their story Florida to the Lakes of Canada, and which, if we are wise
tile House, he hoped. would have seine consideration we shall take especial care has no increase of territory.
fcr the characters of those individuals of whom men spoke so if eee were wise we should see and arrange all matters in
glibly. The people of the district of Montreal, when they Canada and in our North American possessions, so as to
taw the necessity of their leaders being obliged to depart to prepare them when a separation shall come, as come it
avoid being arrested, and knowing that many others were likely must, to be an independent nation. But if you treat them
to be taken up upon the same plea that the apprehension of thus as you arc now treating them, all thrir hopes will be
those who escaped was sought for, because two affidavits only centered in America, and unhappily all their alliances will
were all that was required for that purpose, said that no more be American ; and when we lose Canada, as lose her
writs should be executed there. What did the magistrate; of one day or other we shall, she will merge in the United
Montreal do, or rather what did the Attorney-General do? States, and then we shall see that nation stretching
He got a party of militiamen, chosen out of those Orange its power from the Gulf of Mexico to the northern pole, with
partisans whom he knew to be the very men of all others who her fleets in every sea, and her insolent dominion over-riding
most wanted to create a riot : men who had before petitioned every power ; for men, whether under good or bad institu-
to be enrolled in the rifle corps of Montreal ; and they went dons, if you make them irresponsible, will he unjust. Then,
out and arrested two respectable men, M. Demaray and M. in your turn, you will have to meet the injustice of too power.
D'Avignon. They chained these two men, put manacles on ful America, in like manner as Canada hiss now to meet the
their hands, a chain on their feet, placed them in an open injustice of too-powerful England. Sir, lam sorry that on
waggon, and he (Mr. Roebuck) had it upon the authority me should devolve this great argument. • I feel that I have
of one of the people that they put a halter round their neck. wearied you. I feel that I have been inadequate to the great
He was the more bound to believe that they did so because they tesk which a nation's struggle has devolved upon me ; but I
-so treated it respectable person, the son of a surveyor general hope, while I have addressed you, that I have not forgotten,
of that country, and while suffering under his wounds, and in the zeal of my advocacy, that I am one who was born cf
dragged him many miles through the district. Well, what did 13ritish blood. I have spoken from my heart as one whose
thay do with Messrs. Demaray and D'Avignon? Instead of going whole interests are bound up in the honour and glory of my'
direct to Montreal from the place were they were arrested, they country. I feel that that honour and that glory are now at stake
aetuellv, paraded those persons throughout the excited dis- —not that factitious honour which is to be derived from power,
tricts. What was the consequence ? Just what they themselves or whatever is successful in possession and prosperity, but
expected the peasantry rushed to arms, and rescued the two that honour which is to be derived from the wisdom, the
Wren; whereapon the Government exclaimed, "We cannot justice, and the benevolence of our rule. I find that the
suffer the law to be opposed in this way ; we will send out an benevolence, the wisdom, and the justice of our rule are about
armed power. They accordingly sent Colonel Gore to St. to be infringed, and that all of our American colonies that now
Denis, and Colonel Wetherell to Chambiy, who were to join • remain to us will by and bye in another page of history have
each other at St. Charles. At St. Denis the English troops to relate the calamitous story of this time similar to that
were dispersed, but Colonel Wetherell arrived at St. Charles, which is already upon record ; and then, Sir, as the last ship
and the people were dispersed. And what was the conee- of England leaves that insulted coast, with its millions
quence ? Why, that an excess afterwards took place at St. stretched along its shores shouting' imprecations after her, you
Clerks and St. Denis on the part of the soldiery, only to be will feel, and not till then will you feel and know, your own
equalled by the scenes of slaughter at Tarragona and Bitelajoe. injustice. Sir, I have done my duty.
Nay, he had received information from a magistrate of Lower The Learned Gentleman having withdrawn from the bar,
Canada of his having sat in the midst of the most horrible The SPEAKER put the question, that the Bill be corn-
scenes, and of being surrounded by the mangled bodies of those wetted.
who had been slaughtered by the British troops—that those Mr. HUME had understood it was not to be committed
very bodies were the next morning eaten by the pigs—that many until ittprineiple had been debated.
houses were plundered ()fall that was valuable in them, and that to Lord JOHN RUSSELL said, that the principle of the
his own knowledge those troops, in the insolence of their success, Bill would be debated on the question that the Bill be com-
bed committed every species of outrage which an infuriated mitted,
soldiery were apt to commit, and this upon whom ? Upon Mr. HHME did not understand that two stages of so im•
our own fellow-subjects. The honour of the British soldier portant a measure would be taken on one night.—(" No, no.)
had been spoken of as involved in this affair ; but that was The SPEAKER said the Hon. Gentleman was in error.
not an expedition in which honour could he gained by Bri- The House was not taking two stages. They were doing
tish soldiers. No, they were acting as police ; and all that precisely what must be done on every Bill. The question
they could possibly do would, at best, be but a painful duty. that the Bill he committed having been carried, he should
But horrors such as these, atrocities such as these, were then put the question as to what day, and then it would be
not to be spoken of because, forsooth, it would be tarnishing competent for the Hon, Member to speak upon the principle
the lustre of the British arms. Thank God, he thought of the Bill.
Much better of the lustre of the British arms than to ascribe BU ME said, if so, they were in a condition always as
it to such deeds as these. What honour was were to be ac- if they were reading the Bill a second time.—( Hear, hear.)
quired in opposing and sacrificing an undisciplined body of He would appeal to the House whether the ease they had just
men who were in an unhappy :state of excitement at behold- heard at the Bar did not give a different colour to tire whole
Mg those persons whom they were accustomed to look up to transaction, and make out a case so favourable to the House
and revere treated with every indignity that malice could of Assembly that they ought to pause before they pro.
suggest? These undisciplined men being in arms, and ceeded nith the Bill ? He admitted it wile imperative or,
in this state of excitement, did, undoubtedly, resist the the House to enforce obedience to the law of the co-
who, thereupon lonies; but they ought not, therefore, to suspeild the eon-
well-disciplined troops of her Majesty,
proceeded to burn bares with men in diem ; and, with stitutional privileges of those colonies. From beginning
their gallant commander at their head, to rush in upon to end it appeared to him that the House of As-
an almost unarmed and, certainly, a most undisciplined eembly in Lower Canada had acted with great prudence
body of peasantry, wiles were the subjects of the same Bove- and much patience. They had been invariably frus-
teign. And yet we were not to speak of these horrors, for- trated in their endeavours to obtain the best measures for
tooth, but at the risk of being denounced as having no re- the people by the Legislative Council, and if any punishment
yard for the honour of the British army. He would repeat were to be inflicted it ought to be infligted
on that body that
that he had much more respect for the honour of that army' had stayed the course of justice and reform, Mr. Roebuck
than those who desired to have such services done by it. To might have maths his case still stronger by showing that the
',Press a revolt was always a painful duty, but it must be House of Assembly bad acted in accordance with the feelings
Performed. That duty might, however, be disgraced ; art i of tire people, because be might have shown that during that
ihe would never be persuaded that the commanding officer period which he has so rapidity
ity tette over, the Governor her!
.ad nut sueient power over so small a body as were then tried egein and again, by appeals tr., tha raple, to resist the
.l
Ployed in Lower Canada as to prevent them from coin- proceedings a the Assembly, but that at 00,7i7 gew election
nutting these excesses. He himself knew that booty was due people,sent bae‘ a greater number of Members to isuppctr,
"e,tually brought into Montreal and sold by the soldiers the wepular cry, and to (leased full justice. Under these or-
T
h
ey robbed the inhabitants, and why? Because some par. cumstanene he entreated.her.Mateeqed,
;,.°ll of the people were in arms. They did so, knowing on that which would be, in his opinion, so far from conciliation
Ministers not to press
hers the House' of Assembly was not sitting ,• that its mem- that it would tend to widen the breach. He should ;eel, it hi,
give his oepositsion to the present Bill in every stage
.ers mere scattered over various parts of the country to an duty to
they
of' no less than 700 miles ; and knowing, therefore,ebat of its progress through Itbat 1.1044; od he should therefore
muffling,
were not in authority at that time. It was most unworthy' then move that the Bill be cotrewitite4 t day Aix months.
'"tifiling, then, to attempt to put upon their back, the odium Sir 4P;ORGE GREY need seareaSy eat 4 tp the Mo-
nd the horror of this rebellion. The rebellion wise brought tion just mays by the
.Hon. Member for Kilkenny he should
to.,°out by Lord Gosford, by the colonial government, and by offer his most det,orpined opposition. He was utterly at a
e" want of wisdom on the part of the rulers, and not by lost to conceive 119 W ti 4.94! Member proposed to effect the
;,""se men who had honestly maintained the character of the object of whit* 4,l?Prasn's—bow he would send
eel representatives of the interests of their constituents. But out a Governor with fiall P°aYer„P, Yeaese ihe ()sassed t.;e otil:
Ire, ay we a cad eo
(said Mr. Roebuck) it is the habit everywhere now-a-days to measure which would give the navesaary atethoaity.--(Hear
flreak of Mr. Papineau as being answerable for all that has be- hear.) He (Sir George Grey) rejoiced that the Ileu(se haa
'ilee his country. Now, Sir, I ant not one of those who have listened to the Learned Gentleman who had that night ad-
-64n in the habit of deserting a friend in need. In his most dressed theta front the bar so ably and with such eloquence,