The Sun.
London, England, 1853-05-11 00:00:00

earl opposite (Earl of Derby)s written in the year 184
upon the subject of the grant of a constitution to Van
Diemen's Land. In that dispatch the noble earl stated
that to grant a representative system would be to put an
end to the maintenance of our present system of trans-
portation to the colony. He (the Duke of Newcastle)
believed that to be a statesmanlike view of the case, and
fully concurred in thinking that a representative system
and a system of transportation were incompatible. As
to the real practical effect of the gold diggings upon the
transport, the return for the first nine months of the
year 1852 showed that no less than 1,413 ticket-of-leave
men had absconded from their employments during that
period to go to the gold fields ; of these only 738 were
apprehended and brought back. In a dispatch, dated
about the month of February last, he had explained the
views of the home Government to the Governor of Van
Diemen's Land, and informed him of the intention of
her Majesty's Government to put a stop to the then
system of transportation. He (the Duke of Newcastle)
had seen nothing to induce him to change his opinion
since the writing of that dispatch ; on the contrary, he
was sure that t) ease the colony from its then excited
state was a thing of primary importance. With respect
to the committee presided over by the noble and learned
lord near him (Lord Brougham), he could not find in
the report of that committee that absolute approval of
transportation to which the noble earl (Earl Grey) had
referred. Tho committee seemed rather to have come
to the conclusion that in certain cases the punishment
of actual banishment might be very efficacious. And
on looking to the evidence the same idea was borne out.
Thus, the Hon. Mr. Law, the late Recorder of London,
confined his testimony to those persons who had been
guilty of obtaining money under false pretences. Mr.
Devonport Hill, the Recorder of Birmingham, the
Rev. J. Clay, the chaplain of Preston Gaol, and
other witnesses before the committee, stated that
transportation was much dreaded by the old women
and men, but not by the young. The chaplains of
Reading and Bath Gaols expressed their opinion that
transportation was not generally dreaded by crimi-
nals. These officers were much better judges of the
effect of transportation than even his noble friend the
'Lord Chief Justice. It was in fact mainly applicable to
that class of criminals who were designated in the evi-
dence by the rather strange and anomalous title of "re-
spectable criminals." (Laughter.) Six years bad passed
since this inquiry was made, and great changes had
taken place. Whatever might have been the terrors of
transportation, they were now greatly mitigated by the
altered circumstances of the times. When the com-
mittee sat, emigration was looked upon with a kind of
dread by the inhabitants of country parishes ; and those
who did emigrate never thought of going further than
Canada. In those parishes where the population was
most redundant, it had required all the exertions and
all the persuasion of the landlords and the clergy to in-
duce the labourers to emigrate. Now, the great diffi-
culty was in retaining the population ; and so far from
emigration being a terror, the labouring population
looked upon it as an advantage, and it was one to which
they aspired. The committee had come to the conclu-
sion that imprisonment in this country was not sufficient
as a secondary punishment ; but since their report was
made, prison discipline had been greatly improved, and
would be still more so. The report recommended that
new methods should be found of dealing with juvenile
offenders, also that the education of the poorer classes
should be improved. Both those objects had been at.
tended to ; and he hoped the efforts that had been made
would go on increasing. The noble earl (Grey) had
stated, on a former occasion, that 3,000, 4,000, or 5,000
would be let loose on this country before the end of the
present year. But supposing the transportation to the
Australian colonies abandoned altogether, the whole
number would not amount to more than 2,000 for the
year.

Bari GREY—Do you include those sent to the Aus-
tralian colonies from Gibraltar and Bermuda, or only
those seat from Great Britain and Ireland ?

The Duke of NEWCASTLE said his statement only
included those sent from Great Britain and Ireland. The
average number sent out for the last five years to Australia
from Great Britain and Ireland was 1,945 ; if thpse sent
from Bermuda and Gibraltar were included, the average
was only 100 from each place. The annual number of
vacancies was 400 in Bermuda, and 200 in Gibraltar.
Therefore, were transportation to the whole of the Aus-
tralian colonies to cease at once, the total increase of

the criminal population poured upon this country, in ad•
dition to those annually poured upon us by the libera-
tion of prisoners at the expiration of their sentences,
would be 1,945 in respect of those convicts sent from
Great Britain and Ireland, and 200 from Bermuda and
Gibraltar. In 1846, when this inquiry was made, all
the convicts sentenced to seven years' transportation
were sent to the hulks, a system which it was univer-
sally admitted had demoralised the convicts instead of
reforming them. Yet the whole of these convicts, so
demoralised, were thrown upon the free population of
this country ; not one of them was ever transported.
There was no pretence that we had suffered from this ;
but we were now dreading the effect of a far lesser num-
ber being thrown upon the population, though reformed
by the improved system of prison discipline, and by the
system of labour and separate confinement introduced in
1846. What was taking place at the present moment ?
Assuming that Western Australia would continue to
take about 1,000 convicts, annually, that the number
sentenced to transportation would be reduced by the
substitution of imprisonment for certain offences, and
that about one-half of those now transported would' be
released within this country in consequence of the
change of the law, what would be the proportion to that
of the criminal class now percolating amongst us under
the present system ? An abstract of an official return
made by that independent and valuable public servant
Major Jebb' showed that the total number of persons
tried in 1851 was 27,949, of whom 2,981 was sentenced
to transportation, leaving, 25,058 who were otherwise
disposed of. Of the number sentenced to transportation
at least one-third were never sent out of the country ;
so that not more than 2,000 were sent abroad in 1851,
all the remainder receiving punishment in this country,
and being released at the expiration of their sentences.
Another return showed that of 2,818 prisoners tried,
174 were sentenced to transportation, of whom only
120 were actually transported. There could be very
little danger from this small increase to the number of
criminals relieved in this country. At this moment the pro-
portion of convicts to the population in Van Diemen's Land
was about one in three. In this country, supposing the
numbers released to be augmented by a portion of those
formerly transported, and making the greatest allowance
for this number, still the proportion would only be about
one in 30,000 of the population. (Hear, hear.) Though
we had derived the greatest possible advantage from the
system of transportation, especially of late years, we
were arriving at a period when, by great alterations in
our system of prison discipline, and by the prevalence of
more enlightened views, we were likely to be in a posi-
tion before long to dispense with safety with the punish-
ment of transportation. It was most important to give
the convicts useful and remunerative employment ; and
it was desirable that out of their earnings a certain
amount should be laid by to provide for them when they
came out of prison, and to enable them to get into some
honest way of living, instead of being sent out houseless
and destitute, and with no alternative but to turn- to
their former course of life. They might be employed, as
was recommended by Major Jebb, in harbours of refuge,
dockyards, and other public works. At present about
1,000 convicts were employed in Chatham dockyard,
beneficially as regarded themselves, and advantageously
as regarded the public. If they persevered in that
course, he hoped they should soon be in a condition to
discuss calmly and deliberately whether the system of
transportation might not with advantage be wholly .
abandoned. The altered circumstances of the times de-
manded a change in the system. The adoption of forced
labour for convicts had been felt to be a hardship by
labourers generally, there being then a redundancy of
labour. This was no longer the case, for, able-bodied
men, in every part of the country, readily found employ-
ment. (Hear, hear.) It should be remembered that
other countries had no system of transportation ; neither
the United States nor France pursued such a system ;
and though the travaux forces had failed in France, it was
no argument why a similar system should not succeed
here. He had that morning perused an account of an
improved system of prison discipline adopted at Munich,
the effects of which were such as might make even Major
Jebb himself envious. The Government had done nothing
in this matter at variance with either the spirit or th©
letter of any act of Parliament. He had shown the ne-
cessity of giving up the system of transportation to Van
Diemen's Land; and Had shown the means of doing
this, by improving our system of secondary punish-
ments at home. The transpertation to Western Austra-
lia would be continued ; and he fully anticipated from it
benefit, both to the colony and the mother country.
(Hear, hear.) In taking this step the Government had
not been influenced by any agitation in the colonies, but
had only listened to those claims which he thought to be
just. The noble earl (Grey) had pointed out the distinc-
tion between a wise statesman and a shallow politician.
He would remind the noble earl that it wagfilso the duty
of statesmen, of those who undertook the responsible
duties of ministers of this great country, to watch the
progress of events—to coneede where concession was
necessary, and to concede in time ; not to wait until de-
mands became too clamorous to be resisted, but to con-
cede before it was too late. Such a concession ought to
be made with a good grace, when it might be accepted
as a boon, and might engender feelings of harmony and
concord between the mother country and the colonies,
instead of being delayed till too late, when it would
and
regarded only in the colonies as a sign of weakneiso the
s,
h
would expose ministers to the very charge th
noble earl deprecated. (Hear, hear.) The
sovaesrnwmouldt
en
hoped to be able to carry out such measure
meet the wishes of the colonists, and would promote the
doing
interests of this great country, without anything
to destroy that security for life and property here which
it was most essential to maintain. (Hear, hear.)
Lord CAMPBELL asked whether the mover of the
amendment meant it to be added to the resolution, or to
be a substitute for it. If the former, it quite concurred
with the motion ; they were perfectly harmonious.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said he had put it as an
amendment ; to leave out all the words of the original
resolution after the word "that."
The Earl of CHICHESTER stated that he had BO
proposed it.
Lord CAMPBELL said in that case, he should
their lordships to adopt the address andadvisereject the
amend-
ment. (Hear, hear.) As a judge of the land, and dhavinga seat in their lordships house, he thought it his duty to
take that course.
After some further discussion their lordships divided,
when there appeared--
For the motion
Against it

.................. 37
54
..................

Maj0rity.............................. 17
The amendment was then agreed to.
Their lordships then a,djourned. at a quarter to one
o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS—{YESTERDAY.)
The SPEAKER took the chair shortly before 4 o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.

The Lordi amendments to the following bills wore consi-
dered and agreed to :—Brighton, Hove, and Preston
Water Works : Cambridge University and Town Water
Works ; Cardiff Waterworks ; Liverpool Borough Court ;
Sheffield Water Works ; Stock Improvement ; Wakefield
Soke Mills.
The Severn Navigation Bill was read a third time and
passed.
The following bills were considered and ordered to be
read a third time :—Darenth Valley Railway ; Edin-
burgh and Glasgow Railway ; Midland Railway (Leices-
ter and Hitchin) ; Monkland Railways ; Norwich and
Spalding Railway ; Portadown and Dungannon Rail-
way ; Thames Haven Dock and Railway ; York Drainage
and Sanitary Improvement and Foss Navigation.
The Whittlebury Forest Bill was read a second time
and ordered to be committed.
PETITIONS.
Mr. POTTER presented a petition from Limerick
against the income tax.
Sir J. ANDERSON presented a petition from Stir-
ling in favour of national arbitration, and against th
opening of the, Crystal Palace on Sundays.
Mr. THONNELY presented a petition from Dublin,
praying for Parliamentary enfranchisement for the Uni-
versity of London.
Mr. COLLIER presented a petition from an indivi-
dual named Smith, complaining of the injuries done to
him by the ecclesiastical courts.
Mr. KERSHAW presented a petition from 1,000 of
the working men of Stockport in favour of the opening
of the Crystal Palace on Sundays. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. KINNAIRD presented petitions praying for the
inspection of nunneries.
Mr. B. WALL presented petitions from Stockport
and other places, praying for an alteration in the mar-
riage law.
Mr. O'CONNOR HENCHY presented a number o
petitions from places in Ireland in favour of the ballot. f
Mr. M'MAHON presented petitions from places in
Ireland in favour of tenant right.
Mr. H. BERKELEY presented a petition from 800
voters of Chatham praying that the house will not dis-
franchise the dockyard artisans, but protect them by the
ballot ; also, other petitions in favour of the ballot ; and
petitions from Bristol praying for alterations in the
budget.
Mr. DUFFY presented a petition from Kilross
against the extension of the income tax to Ireland.
Mr. PETO presented a petition from Norwich in
favour of legalising marriages with a deceased wife's sis-
ter ; also a number of petitions praying for the enfran-
chisement of the London University.
Mr. W. J. FOX presented petitions to the same effect ;
also petitions from the City of London and the Tower
Hamlets praying that the Crystal Palace may be opened
on Sundays.
Mr. FAGAN presented a petition from Cork against
the extension of the income tax to Ireland.
Mr. BRIGHT presented a petition from Bethnal-
green in favour of the ballot.
Sir W. MOLESWORTH presented 42 petitions from
Van Diemen's Land, praying for the abolition of trans-
portation ; also, a petition from Southwark, in favour
of the ballot ; the prayers of which petitions the right
hon. Bart. said he cordially supported.
Mr. WARNER presented a petition from 500 work-
ing men of Norwich, in favour of the opening of the
Crystal Palace on Sunday.
Mr. SCHOLEFIELD presented a petititon from Bir-
mingham, in favour of legalising marriages with a de-
ceased wife's sister.
Mr. GARDNER presented four petitions to the same
effect.
Lord A. VANE presented a petition from Dublin,
praying for the inspection of nunneries.
Colonel DUNNE presented a petition from Porter-
lington against the income tax.
Mr. HUME presented petitions from Basingstoke
and Great Yarmouth in favour of the ballot.
PLYMOUTH ELECTION.
Mr. AGLIONBY brought up the report of the select
committee on this election, which will be found in an-
other part of our columns.
Sir J. SHELLEY presented petitions from St. Cle-
ment Danes, and St. Ann's, Westminster, in favour of
the ballot.
On the motion of Mr. AGLIONBY, the evidence taken
before the Plymouth committee was ordered to be
printed.

NOTICE OF MOTION.
Mr. COBDEN gave notice that this day month he
should bring under the consideration of the house the
subject of the annexation of the province of Pegu to the
territory of the East India Company.

LAND TAX.
Mr. WODEHOUSE wished to put a question to the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, relating to the proposed
measure for giving increased facility to the act for the
Redemption of the Land Tax, viz. :—Whether the mea-
sure now proposed is intended to supersede, or in any
,eway to preclude the consideration of the question of a
periodical revision ; also, whether a more extensive
inquiry should not now be made, by means of which the
evils complained of might be in a great degree lessened,
without infringing on the benefits already realised by re-
demption. ,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
measure now proposed was intended only to facilitate
the redemption of the land tax, and it was not intended
that any further inquiry should be made with a view to
a readjustment of the tax.
DUBLIN EXHIBITION.

Mr. P. O'BRIEN wished to ask the Secretary-at-
War whether it was his intention to recommend to the
noble lord the Commander-in-Chief the propriety of
granting leave of absence to such officers of the Army as
may be desirous of viewing the great Industrial Exhibi-
tion in Dublin—similar leave having been granted dur-
ing the holding of the great Exhibition in 1851
Mr. S. HERBERT said, the power of granting leave
of absence entirely rested with the commander-in-chief;
but it was not likely that leave could be given in the
manner required until late in the year.