The Sun.
London, England, 1853-08-08 00:00:00

fourttlantion

SUN OFFICE, Seven o' Clock.

TATTERSALL'S.

(THIS EVENING.)

EBOR HANDICAP.
7to 1 agst Adine.
7to 1 agst Catspaw.
Bto 1 agst King of Trumps.
Bto 1 agst Lord Lieutenant.
Bto 1 agst Pantomime.

ST. LEGER.

sto 4on 'West Australian.
4to 1 agst Sittingbourne (9 to 2 taken).
7to 1 agat Cineas (taken).

DERBY.
1000 to 30 agst Dervish.
1000 to 10 agst Sir James Graham.
25 to 1 agst Ruby taken).
NORTH STAFFORDSHIRE STAKES.
2to 1 agst Haricot (taken).

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS—(THIS EVENING.)
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack
at five o'clock.

PETITIONS.

The Earl of WICKLOW presented a petition from
50 of the most eminent clergymen and lawyers in Dub-
lin, complaining of the alterations lately made in the
national system of education in Ireland, the effect of
which was to place it in the power of a single child to
exclude religious works from a school, and praying their
lordships not to sanction such alteration.
Lord BEAUMONT presented a petition from clergy-
men, justices of the peace, and other persons in a re-
spectable position, iu favour of the liberation of Edward
Murray, now under imprisonment for life in the Papal
territory.
The Duke of BUCCLEUCH presented a petition from
Glasgow in favour of the Public Houses (Scotland) Bill.
Lord COLVILLE presented nineteen petitions from
places in Scotland against the Universities (Scotland)
Bill.
COURT OF COMMON LAW (IRELAND (BILL)
On the motion of the LORD CHANCELLOR, in
the absence of Eord Brougham, who was away from
indisposition, this bill went through committee.
GENERAL BOARD OF HEALTH (No. 3) BILL.
This bill passed through committee.
NAVAL COAST VOLUNTEERS BILL.

This bill was read a second time.
PUBLIC LIBRARIES (IRELAND AND SCOT-

LAND) BILL.

The report of the amendments to this bill was con-
sidered and agreed to.

PRIVATE WATER BILLS.

Lord WH.ARNCLIFFE moved an additional stand-
ing order to the effect, that when an application was
made to Parliament for a bill which proposed to abstract
water from any stream, notice of such bill should be
given on or before the 15th December preceding the ap-
plication, to all persons using the waters of such stream
for a distance of 20 miles below the point at which such
water was intended to be abstracted.
Lord REDESDALE supported the resolution, which
was carried.
IRISH LANDLORD AND TENANT BILLS.

The Marquis of CLANRICARDE inquired whether
the bills before the house relating to the law of landlord
and tenant in Ireland, which purported to consolidate a
large number of statutes, had been submitted to the law
advisers of the Irish Government, and whether their
opinion had been obtained as to the safety and accu-
racy of those bills in that respect.
The Duke of NEWCASTLE said the bills were sub-
mitted to the present Lord Chancellor and the Attorney
and Solicitor General in Ireland, and he had great plea-
sure in saying that their report upon them was that they
were drawn up with great care, skill, and accuracy.
Their report was accompanied by a recommendation that
they should be passed as speedily as possible into law.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE believed that it was
physically impossible for these functionaries to have seen
and approved of the bills in their present state, for on
their last stage in the other house it appeared that five
acts of Parliament had been omitted from the sche-
dules, and five other acts inserted.
The Duke of NEWCASTLE promised to make in-
quiry into the subject.
The subject then dropped.
RUSSIA AND TURKEY.

The Marquis of CLAN RICARDE rose to put a
question respecting the proceedings of Russia in Turkey.
[LEFT SPEAKING.]

HOUSE OF COMMONS-(THIS DAY.)

The SPEAKER took the chair shortly after 12 o'clock.

PRIVATE BUSINESS.

The Lords' amendments to the Bayswater, Padding-
ton, and Holborn Bridge Railway Bill were considered
and agreed to.
The reports upon the following bills were considered
and agreed to, and the bills were ordered to be read a
third time:—Chaytor's Estate ; DuLe of Cleveland's
(Harte) Estate ; Sunderland Town Moor and Freemen's
Orphan Asylum ; Treffry's Estate ; Pidgley's Estate.

PETITIONS.
Mr. DUNCAN presented a petition from the medics;
Profession at Dundee, in favour of medical reform.
METROPOLITAN SEWERS ACTS CONTINU-

Sir tion for going On the mo ANCE BILL.
' committee of supply,
g into
J. SHELLEY complained that this bill was the
last instead
it:lielifir4st order of the day for 12 o'clock
to-day.
measure,
of the metropolis were up in
arms about the
to the present commission
as it proposed to give powers
years ; and he hoped if to raise rates for the next .30
the Government intended to
persevere with so monstrous
place the bill in a more a proposition, they would
favourable poetise on the
orders
of the day.
impossible to fix any time
forMtrh:eWbilllLuSnotiNl tshaeidGiotvwerans i•nlP°
Government through thecorn-
mittee of supply. He believed:tgfat t the noble lord the
Secrefortawardry for
at 1 2 the
oHclock toome Demporrow izitended to bring,
ntt
u that would de-
it '-
pend on the other orders being disposed today_
.ould levy
Sir B. HALL considered that, as thetbmilla.Yß
about half a million of money on the
ample opportunity should be afforded for itestrg°liB', an
After a few words from Col. SIBTHORp discussion,
ject dropped. , the sub.POSTAL ARRANGEMENTS (IRELAND.)
Mr. BUTT asked the Secretary of the Treasury
whether any arrangements had been made or were in-
tended to be made by the Post-office to alter the pre-
sent arrangements under which letters from the town of
Youghal to the neighbouring borough town of Dun-
garvan, distant sixteen miles upon a good road, were
conveyed by a circuit of several hundred miles, and
occupied two days in the transit, as pointed out in the
memorial forwarded to the Postmaster-General in March
last, from the Town Commissioners of Youghal ; and a
similar question as to the communication between
Youghal and Tallow, complained of in a second me-
morial presented at the same time, and complained of
the injurious effects of these arrangements on the postal
intercourse of the south of Ireland ?
Mr. WILSON said he had communicated with the
Post-office on the subject, but he had not yet received
any reply.

SUPPLY.
Mr. HUME objected to the house being forced
through committee of supply in the hurried way pro-
posed. The votes which they were asked to sanction
to-day amounted to no less a sum than 4,582,0001.
When he first directed attention to these votes they
were only between 15,000/. and 18,0001., but they had been going on increasing ever since, an they had now
reached the sum he had now mentioned. He did not
mean to say there were not reasons for the increase, but
he thought they should adopt another course in afuture
session, and submit the votes to a select committee be-
fore they were proposed to the house.
The house then went into committee of supply..
On the vote of 20,0001. for civil contingencies
Mr. HUME went through the items of the vote, and
urged various reductions ; and, after some discussion,
the vote was agreed to.
On the question that 550,887/. be voted to her Majesty
o defray the expenses of the Commissariat Department,

Mr. HUMS complained that nothing had been done
to reduce the expenses of the department, although re-
auctions and abolitions had been suggested by the com-
mittee up stairs. He thought that great reductions
might be made in this vote, so far as it applied to the
colonies. _ _

Mr. WILSON defended the vote, and stated that
Government were doing all in their power to gradually
reduce the vote.
Sir J. GRAHAM announced that the Colonial De-
partments, connected with both the Army and Navy,
were in progress of reduction.
The vote was then agreed to.
The sum of 45,2291. was voted to her Majesty to de-
fray the expenses of the half-pay pensions of officers
attached to the Commissariat Department.
On the question that 3,500/. be voted to her Majesty
to defray the expenses of the salary of the Governor of
Jamaica,
Mr. HUME expressed a hope that the next session
some plan would be brought forward by which the
country would be relieved from these charges.
The vote was agreed to.
Sir J. GRAHAM in moving that 50,000/. be voted to
her Majesty to defray the expense of the new coast vo-
lunteers, said it was not intended to call out the full com-
plement of 10,000 men this year, but only to enlist 5,000 e
men. The vote was, consequently, for only half th
estimate.
Capt. SCOBELL complained that while bounties were
paid to militiamen and coast volunteers, no such boun-
ties were paid to able seamen on their entering the navy.
The result was that the navy contained many inferior

seamen.
told
Sir J. GRAHAGRAHAMd the hon. and gallant member
that if he would go to Spithead on Thursday he would
find he was in error so far as his latter observation
went. (Hear.)
The vote was then agreed to.
On the question that 835,2121. be voted to her Ma-
jesty, to defray the expense of the Post-office Packet
Service,
Mr. HUME took the opportunity of expressing a
hope that the whole system of our packet service would
be speedily reformed.
Mr. COWPER was happy to be able to hold out a
prospect that such hope would be shortly realised. The
hon. gentleman said the American and the Peninsular
and Oriental contracts had been most efficiently per-
formed, but the service to the West Indies and Australia
had been exceedingly defective. The Government, how-
ever, had not acted with any harsh hostility, and the
contracts would be annulled unless the services were
more punctually performed.
Mr. HUME urged upon the Government the
necessity of encouraging the principle of ocean
penny postage. It was impolitic to continue the
existing high rate of colonial postage while emigration
continued so extensive as it had been of late years.
Mr. JOHN MACGREGOR also dwelt upon the
importance of establishing ocean penny postage, and
added his testimony to the efficiency and punctuality
with which the United States service was performed.
Mr. JAMES MACGREGOR observed that a reduc-
tion had taken place in the cost of carrying mails by
her Majesty's ships. The reduction he saw was from
77,0001. to 35,0001., and he should be glad to know
whether it was intended still further to reduce the num-
ber of mails carried by her Majesty's ships.
Mr. COWPER explained that the reduction had arisen
from the Mediteranean mails having been transferred
from her Majesty's ships to the Peninsular and Oriental
Company's vessels. If the mail service between Dover
and the continent could be performed more economically
by contract than by her Majesty's vessels, a change
would be made accordingly. He would take that oppor-
tunity of stating that Government had it in contempla-
tion to reduce the rate of postage, and to extend the
service to Australia.
The vote was then agreed to.
On the question that 200,0001. be voted to defray the
expenses of the Kafir war,
Mr. ADDERLEY thought the house ought not to
allow this vote to pass without obtaining some informa-
tion as to the settlement of the war. A very liberal
constitution had been extended to the Cape, and this
was a most opportune period for ascertaining upon
what terms the war had been settled. He had the
fullest confidence in the wisdom of the Colonial
Ministers, while he fully concurred in the consti-
tution which had been conceded to the Cape ; but the
Minister had committed an error with regard to the
limits of territory which he had attempted to establish.
There was no more fruitful source of war than the
capricious settlement of frontier questions, and yet
would the country believe that several successive Minis-
ters had pursued a different frontier policy towards the
Cape. (Hear,) hear.) The consequence of this
bad been perpetual war, and so long as this
country undertook` the maintenance of the exist-
ing frontiers by European troops, so long would it
be involved in a war with the native Kaffir tribes. He
therefore recommended the Government to adopt the
same policy in the Cape that was formerly applied to
our American colonies, and leave the frontiers to be de-
fended by militias raised from amongst the settlers them-
selves. He complained of the abandonment of territory
which had recently taken place in the Cape, particularly
of the Oraoge River territory, which had endangered the
situation of :Natal, and recommended that the present
frontier policy of the Colonial-office should be reversed.
Mr. F. PEEL said the new constitution had been
received throughout the colony as a boon, and he had
no doubt that it would prove advantageous, as well to
the mother country as to the colony. With regard to
the question of territory which the hon. gentleman had
raised, he contended that the frontier policy of the Co-
lonial-office was both wise and safe. Much of the terri-
tory which it was proposed to be abandoned had always
been a burden to this country, while it was almost out
of its power, or the power of the settlers, to
defend it ; and the Colonial-office had therefore
sent out Sir George Clerk as a commissioner
to deal with the whole question in the best manner
in which his judgment, in connection with that of the
Governor, could suggest. He entirely differed with the
hon. gentleman in supposing that the abandonment of
the Orange River territory would endanger the safety of
Natal, because the latter was entirely independent of the
former, and there was a constant steam communication be-
tween Natal and Cape Town, without it being necessary to
touch in the remotest degree upon the Orange River
territory. The frequency and expense of these wars,
however, rendered it indispensably necessary that some
thing should be done to prevent their recurrence.
(Hear, hear.) During the last six years no less than
4,000,0001. had been spent upon these wars, but still
he doubted with General Cathcart, whether it was
expedient at once to withdraw the protection of the
European troops, and leave the settlers to defend the
territory themselves. That was the mistake which they
committed in 1846, and it was, therefore, intended now
to pursue the different course of leaving the troops to be
withdrawn, as the Government and settlers of the colony
found they could dispense with their assistance.
Sir DE LACY EVANS advocated the abandonment
of the Orange territory.
Mr. SMITH did not believe that this was the last
vote they would be asked for in connection with the
Kaffir war. He approved of the abandonment of the
Orange River territory, and thought some other terri-
tories would have to be abandoned yet before the colony
would be safe.

The vote was then agreed to.
On the motion of Lord J. RUSSELL, the chairman
was directed to report progress, and the house having
resumed, he obtained leave to sit again at six o'clock.
The other twelve o'clock orders were then disposed of,
and the house rose at four o'clock.