The Sun.
London, England, 1854-07-18 00:00:00

In a condition to act imnlediately on the spur of the mo- A consented to withdraw the word "misdemeanour," be-
ment in this matter, or not at all. The report to which he cause it was one of the beet protections afforded by the bill
has referred was published in 1539. Well, what happened against bribery.
in the case ? The committee came to no decision upon the Mr. HILDYARD was afraid that persons subscribing to
subject, but there were one or two reports drawn up by any election fund would be guilty of a misdemeanour
different, members of that committee; and when the cons- under this clause, although they might have received the
mission sat which subsequently reported, they dissented sanction of the election officer.
from those views, and substituted one of their own. At The ATTORNEY-GENERALdid not think that the
any rate, therefore, the subject was not so easy of decision clause would prevent either clubs or private individuals
as the right hon. baronet seem 3to think, This commission from subscribing their money to secure the return of their
having reported, no Government that succeeded it has ever favourite candidate; the object of the enactment was sim-
atVerapted to carry that report into effect—and why ? Be- ply to provide that money so subscribed should be paid in
.use they felt the change was so great, involving as it did the same way as the money of the candidate himself—
the remodelling of every military department, and their through the election officer. It was perfectly plain that
Consequent consolidation, that unless they had a great deal unless the prohibitions imposed upon candidates were ex-
cf concurrence of opinion in favour of that specific plan, tended to all other persons, the bill would be inoperative.
and unless there was a great change of feeling, in would be (Hear, hear.) As to voters clubbing together to pay their
in wall to attempt to carry it out. Four Governments sue- common expenses, he was clearly of opinion that such a
csec3.odlo the appointment of that commission, but none of case would not come within the meaning of the clause.
therm attempted to make the change which had been sag- Sir J. PAKINGTON approved the clause, but thought
/Mated. It might be possible to do a great deal, and I hope the noble lord had made a desirable alteration by modi-
kc is, at the present moment ; but I must say at the mo- fying the penalties. Even with this enactment, he was
went when every department was strained to its utmost afraid they would not succeed in putting a stop to all im-
for the Purpose of sending out, on a great emergency, a proper practices on the part of the friends of candidates.
force amounting to nearly 40,000 men, under very great Mr. NE WDEGATE would ask the Attorney-General
difficulty with regard to ships, but I hope and believe in a whether the fact of voters clubbing their money together
state of verrgreat efficiency, if we had chosen that as the would not compel them to give an account of their ex-
time, ati suggested by the right hon. baronet, for carrying penses to the election officer? He thought the clause
in'io practical effect certain theoretical improvements in would destroy the independent action of the consti-
this and that particular subject—if we had, regardless of tuencies.
delay, and of the great emergency, set about squaring all The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said every man was en-
these departments to a model suggested 25 years ago, the titled to pay his own expenses, and the mere fact of his
Government would have been unworthy of the position joining with another voter in the payment of their corn-
they hold, and unworthy of the confidence of the couutry. mon expenses would not bring him within the meaning of
(eneers.) The Government felt, and justly felt, that the the clause. The sole object of the clause was to prevent
t.rst thing to do was that which pressed most. There is his expenses being paid by another person without the
no doubt about it that the duties of a Minister charged knowledge or sanction of the election officer.
with the management of the colonies are so great as to be Mr. AGLIONBY thought that this was one of the most
incompatible with those of carrying on a war. In former valuable clauses in the bill. It was necessary for the pro-
years, when this country was at war, the Colonial Mini- tection of the honest voter, would enable them to secure
stor, it is true, carried on the war, but for the simplest of purity of election, and was of still more importance as a
stliat reasons,
that he neglected the colonial business. But protection to the candidate himself.
firsta c_aurvit be done now. That, as I have said, was the In reply to a question from Lord R. GROSVENOR,
. thing to be done, because it was necessary to the effi- Sir F. KELLY said he would undertake to propose a
money of the service sand and therefore we did that first. The clause to this effect—that if, upon the trial of an action to
notate, lord stated the Government would then take care, recover these penalties, it should appear to the judge that
aiter due consideration, and step by step, to put the new payments had been made without any illegal intention, it
department on another system, which should free them should be competent for him to reduce the penalties to any
from the recurrence of acknowledged evils ; but he declined sum not less than 40s.
to state exactly how he would distribute the various duties, The amendment proposed by Lord J. Russell was then
and what changes he would make in the different depart- agreed to.
Ments. And he was quite right in acting on general prin. Mr. LIDDELL said he was still unsatisfied with the
ciplea, for I may remind the right hon. baronet that this clause, and would persist in his motion for its rejection.
Paragraph appears in the report of the committee which The committee then divided, when there voted—
sat three years ago :—" Your committee refrain from For the clause ll5
pointing out any detailed course of action on this subject, Against it 26
lowing the responsibility of that tothose 1(

whose official Majority
pesiticin and authority Can alone guide them in applying The clause was accordingly agreed to as amended.
a. remedy to the present state of things." I stated at the Clause 27 provides that an account of the election ex•
eomniencement of the session, when the hon. gentleman penses should be made out by the election officer.
the member for Montrose raised this question, what
Mr. HENLEY suggested that the abstract to be pub-
were hay views on the subject generally, and what were lished should contain an account of all sums claimed, as
the views of the Government. From none of those views well as paid, otherwise it would not afford the candidate a
have, I seen any reason to depart. We have already sufficient protection against exorbitant claims.
taken this great step ;we have disconnected the co- Mr. WALPOLE thought the clause was sufficient as it
token his
the War Department. We have, there- stcod. It provided that the election officer should make a
fr,re, one responsible head, who can supervise all these return of all the expenses incurred by the candidate; that
'establishments, and who can supervise all the changes should embrace all claims made upon him.
which are to be effeeeted in these departments. He will at Sir F. KELLY had no objection to introduce the words
once have the commissariat put under his authority. That ~ and all sums claimed, although the same shall not have
been allowed."
is a great and imp ortant step. He will then have the means
of examining to -what extent the consolidation of the mile- The clause as amended was then agreed to.
tarp and civil portions of the Ordnance can be carried into
effect. But if von ask us to put the whole machinery out On clause 28,Mr. HENLEY said that this clause enacted that the
of gear—(head )—for the sake of introducing some theory returning officer should keep copies of the accounts in some
which the right hon. baronet might easily in a few mo- convenient place for public inspection ; but it did not pro-
meats skete,h out on a sheet of paper, I say I think the vide a sufficient machinery for that purpose.
subject is. by far too important to be treated so lightly as
that ; w Mr. G. E. H. VERNON thought that the proposedaif on such an emergency the Government are
remuneration of 10/. to the election officer would not at all
bound tc, feel their way as they go on. They would not compensate him for the labour imposed by the clause.
risk l'ne efficiency of those departments, on the efficiency After a few words from Mr AGLIONBY and Mr. ELLIOT,
of whir .h the safety and success of our arms at this moment Sir F. KELLY admitted that some place ought to be
so m& Serially depends. The right hon. gentleman says he fixed by the a
ge t the accounts should be deposited.
canny st understand how you can have two Cabinet Minis- He would suggest the office of the clerk of the peace in
tens ' both engaged in military departments. But I beg counties, and of the town clerk in boroughs. The accounts,
hire to bear in mind that the duties of the Secretary-at- however, could be deposited with them till they were
W' ar are not of an executive character. His duties are complete, some time after the election might elapse before
?A',leg"Ated to hire by the Treasury. (Hear, hear.) The that, and it would therefore be necessary to provide some
• .1. reasury has the great financial cheek and control over all place for their custody in the interval. He would be pre-
the expendituee of the country, but the expenditure of the pared to make a proposition on bringing up the report.
country is too, great and too minute in its details to be sus- Mr. HENLEY considered that the matter required
eeptible of teeing checked by any officer of the Treasury, great care ;it was necessary that some person should be in
and therefor e they delegate to the Secretary-at-War, with constant attendance, or the accounts might be tampered
reference t., the army, all the powers which they exercise with by any person making a copy.
themselvies in respect to other departments of expenditure, The clause was then agreed to.
and he cl-,ecks and controls the expenditure with a view to On cleuse 29, providing that the election officer shall in-
proper e conomy and efficiency. If, therefore, you have sert an abstract of the accounts in two newspapers pub-
hint do' ing the duties of both departments. he ceases to lished or circulated in the place,
have 7 .ny check or control. (Hear, hear.) I have heard Lord R. GROSVENOR wished to know who was to
the b on. member for Montrose constantly complain that pay for the advertisement.
the • management of tho navy was far more expensive than Sir F. KELLY said the expense should be defrayed by
the lof the army. I have no (loubt the management of the the candidates:
ai. ,ny has been far more closely looked into than that of the
? Lori SEYMOUR reminded the hon. and learned mem-
avy, because in the case of the army one man expends
bet that th
mom-
'the money and another holds the purse; not a regulation two newspapereers published. were many districts in which there were not
can be made by the Commander-in-Chief without the con- Sir F. KELLY said the clause met the difficulty by the
sent of the Finance Minister, in the person of the Seers-
word "
tart'-at-War; and that is the secret of much of the eco- circulated."
Mr. HILDYARD did not see any necessity for the pub-
nomy in the departme'at of war which had been practised lication in the papers at all. He intended to take the
for a great number of years. If, therefore, you combine the sense of the committee on the clause. If the accounts
two things, you do away with that whole system of econo- were to be published, he thought the claims ought to be
Inical control in the management of the army which has also, and not a mere abstract.
done so much to enhance its efficiency. Again, the right Mr. AGLIONBY thought one newspaper would be suf-
hon. baronet says you ought not to have two Cabinet Mi- ficient. Ile would move an amendment to that effect.
lusters. But why does he assume you are going to consti-
tute., Mr. GROGAN said the publication in the papers would
the depar'ements with two Cabinet Ministers? He says be very expensive. He would suggest that the accounts
the office is useless, and if it is useless why not abolish it ? be not published unless on the requisition of either cau-
-1 think I hay o satisfied the house that, financial speaking,
'the exiiiteiree of the office of Secretary-at-Wars vital to didate.
the effiSir J. PAKINGTON hoped his right hon. friend thecier.cy of the army. (Hear, hear.) The Secretary-
chairman of the select committee, or some other member
at-War n•ow exercises a very wholesome check over the ex- of it, would assign a reason for the clause. It seemed to
penditur eof the army ; and lam clearly of opinion that him very absurd ;it gave no security, and he would vote
the control which the Secretary-at-War has over the ex- a ainst it unless some good reason was given.
Penditure of the army, under the Commander in-Chief, against it unless Borne goo 4 reason was given.
Poni'kitisre of the army under the Cotarnander in-Chief, Mr. MA.GAN suggested that the accounts should be
ouieht to, be extended to the expenditure which is now ed through
under the Master-General, as the commander-in-chief of linlacar thed papers. the district instead of being published
the Artillery and Engineers. It may be true, as the right Lord SEYMOUR asked who was to pay the election
hon. b aronet says, that the office itself, being quite dis- officer for the expense of advertising ? The clause was only
tines in its nature, will, by the creation of a Secretary of permissive and not compulsory, and he regarded it as all
State a for War, lose a great deal of its importance. I think nonsense.
it '.vould be an advantage if the house could see the who's Sir F. KELLY said the clause was not his production,
ex' penditure for maintaining the personnel of the army put but that of the hon. member for Manchester (Mr. Bright).
hifore-the house from time ta time, as much as possible, but
he thought it important. Its object was to give pub-
..)y the head. (Hear, hear.) There have been a great many licity to the accounts, but more especially to the names of
things done by the Secretary-at-War which did not strictly parties who made claims upon candidates. No greater
devolve upon him, but which the Colonial Minister could check could be devised against improper claims upon can-
not do—(Hearj--and in that way there is no doubt many dilates than publication, and he hoped it would be adopt-
unctions have been performed by him of late years which ed. The expenses of advertising would form part of the
had better have been performed by Borne other officer. I election expenses, and would not fall upon the election
still stand out for this, however, if you mean to continue officer. At the same time he thought a single advertise-
the steadiness with which the financial check has been ment would be sufficient in any one newspaper published
brought to bear on the expenditure of the army, and or circulated in the county or place.
which I have shown is so necessary to its good government The clause having been amended to this effect,
and economy, you must maintain the office of Secretary- Mr. HILDYARD thought that his hon. and learned
at-War as a separate office. But the right hon. gentleman friend ought not to disavow the authorship of the clause.
says there ought not to be two Cabinet Ministers. I will He reminded him of the maxim, " Qui facit per alium facit
not eliecuss that question with him. I have looked at this per se." He objected to the whole cause on the ground that
matter with perfect impartiality, I believe, and without
anyit required the publication of all claims upon the candidates
party- feeling—(oheers); and so far from attempting which were allowed, while there was no direction to pub-
to p revent change I have urged change. I have very freely lish thee) which were disallowed. He moved an addition
exri,ressed before Parliament my own opinions as to what to this effect, but should still take the sense of the committee
wide should be remedied, and how they should be remedied. upon the question that the clause stand part of the bill.
I have made no secret of those opinions. At this moment Sir F. KELLY said the word " account" in this and in
I confess lam sorry to hear the right hon. baronet object to the two preceding clauses would include the publication of
there being two Cabinet Ministers, one for the manage- the charges disallowed. Still, if this interpretation was
meld of the war, and the other for the interior of the army,
but having been a long time Secretary-at-War, I felt my objectedto by his hon. and learned friend, he would not
knowledge of details might be of some value in enabling oppose the introduction of words to the effect he desired.
the Government, in the work of fusion to distribute the Mr. HIED YARD totally differed from this interpreta-
duties of the several departments. (Cheers.) I thou ht
ht I tion of the three clauses.
should not be justified in asking myself in this crisis whether Mr. BRIGHT said publication in the newspapers of ab-
the office I hold should be abolished, and I therefore wil- atracta would be a check upon expenditure to which the
lingly undertook to continue the duties which I now per- candid
ate ought not to be exposed. He recommended the
form. lam sorry the right honourable baronet dis- house to adopt the clause without the amendment sug-
approv
Sir J. WALSH contended that a great object was to bees of my so doing, but I can only say that the
as- gested by the hon. and learned member for Virhitehaven.
instance which I have given shall continue to be given ;
obta'ned by the introduction of the words proposed by the
and while I refuse to accept the challenge to lay on the him:. and learneld member for Whitehaven. By holding
table a detailed plan of every change or alteration that may up unjust claims upon candidates the committee would be
at present be in contemplation—knowing the danger of
meddling with a great department of the Government, upon
doing as much for the prevention of
bribery-
as they would
te publication of admitted claim
the efficiency of which at this moment depends the safety by Mrh. BENTINCK subbmitted that the time should be
and much of the success of one of the finest armies that
limited during which the election officer should be obliged
as
ed
ever went forth to confront an enemy—(cheers)—but hav-
to submit the accounts to w
ing at the same, time a perfectly distinct conception that
too long; three months he inspection. Twelve months
the object we ought to aim at is the redistribution of the
move an amendment were sufficient; and to this effect on the report. should
duties of the offices in question—l trust the house will not
Mr. WALPOLE approved of the clause as it stood. The
deprive the Government of that assistance and confidence effect of the amendment moved by the hon. and learned
which are necessary to enable them to bring these changes member for
sWhin would be that candidates would
to a good issue, taking care to proceed step by step ; and if have all sort of exorbitant and unjust claims made upon
time and the opportunity be given us for doing that, I feel them by mischievous persons.
satisfied we can eventually introduce into the military de- Mr. HILDYARD could not accede to this reasoning.
partments of the State changes which will greatly enhance If the candidate was called upon to publish at all, he ought
their efficiency, and on which even now depend the honour to publish the claims that were wrongfully made upon him,
and the safety of this country. (Loud cheers.)
and he denied that it would bo either vexatious or unwar-
Colonel DUNNE said, with respect to the proposed rentable.
transfer or the management of barracks, it so happened that Mr. MASSEY said the 28th clause effected all the pur-
at this rraornent, when the great body of our troops were pose of necessary publicity, and all beyond was mere
abroad, that subject was of the very least importance. scandal.
The Secretary atiWar had adverted to the separation of After a few words from Mr. G. BUTT, who said he should
the 6.'11 and military departments of the Ordnance. He vote for the rejection of the whole clause,
oureht it would be exceedingly difficult to understand the
difference between the civil
still more to effect their saen;aration.Heexp.resse his portance to insure authentic publicity. The 28th clause
gratification that the m enabled every elector to obtain the accounts, and he might
to be, removed from the danagement of the militia was not
Publish them if ho thought proper ;but it would be better
l epartment of the Home Secretary,
for if the country con d not have the services of the noble
loe.d at the head of the war department it ought at least to adopt means to secure publicity in an authentic form.
.This was the duty of the election officer, and the object of
:t a have the satisf •
in his hands. (gear,
of seeine the militia leftentirely a it was that the public might know the amount of the ex-
ude- (Hear beer) Mr. G. M. BUTT ex * 1 •
prassed his surprise at the speeches pu • '
penditure. As to making it incumbent upon the officer to
of the noble lord the President of the Council and the right publish the claims he disallowed as well as those allowed, it
hon. the Secretary at War. When called upon to tth was a minor point. He did not see much objection to it,
estimates for this new department th committee might ,
vo e e
theb ut certainly publication by the election officer was one of
at least expect to be furnished withetapi
da parts
eo
object
ht
jheee
tb bill. (Hear.)
h i(eHheial rl .
was)
to invoke
of the new office and the duties of somee
,ndthe speeches
ogecaerr explanation M mr.oVst.iSuMP°lTr.tielan
of the sort had, however, been vouchsafed ands. Nothing public opinion in dimThinieueetiounldofenexlypehnesdese,naenhdyfopruhtblieshpirneg-
to which he had referred could only be u vention of bribery. 8
ground that it was thought necessary to appoints on
nadthe the accounts in thfothneewinepeatp
important
trhteenptroievistihoenhfioirt.whßiceht he
e
tional high officer of State at a large salary, withna can di' regarded as one o
able staff to assist him. He did not think that thoentier. did not think it woube ld beneficial to publish accounts
try would consent to the appointment of a second Cabineteun-
which were disallowed.
officer, if there was to be no consolidation of the Mr. PIGOTT objected to the amendment, on the ground
the various departments.duties of that it would tend to encourage litigation on the part of
The vote was then agreed to, candidates.
THE BRIBERY BILLS, he. After a few words from Mr. BENTINCK,
Lord R. GROSVENOR called attention to the fact that
The house then went into committee on the Bribery
tehrathe should
the clause did not state by whom the expenses of the pub-
Bills. lication of the accounts were to be paid. He gave notice
Clauses 22 to 25 inclusive were agreed to without tom- propose that they be paid out of the county
ment.
borough rate, an(l in cases where there was neither, that
On clause 26 being proposed, a special rate should be laid for the purpose after the
election.
Mr. LIDDELL moved its omission from the bill on the Mr. V. SCULLY thought that all claims whatever
ground that its provisions would involve the candidate in , should be published. He was favourable to the utmost
publicity,
to •
penalties for acts even of the most laudable and
yd ' pumblric.
serious
necessary character, even those of the payment of moue
" or claims nnobjected. to 'na
nd
st
on his own private account, unless such payments were ment in order to move to iesert after the word " correct,"
ptrheevieonuds
of
frbthale aenalaeunstel:
made through the election officer.
Lord J. RUSSELL expressed his opinion that the result "or by which the same have been claimed respectively,"
mhoved to. addat the endof
of the omission of the clause would be, in many cases, to The amendment
Lord R. GROSVvaaeoßeed to*
publication to be ,defrayed
render nugatory the appointment. of the election officer,
the
He was favourable to the retention of the clause, and ap- clause, " the expenses of sue
Proved its principle, but thought that some mitigation out of county rate or the borough rate, and where there
might be safely made in the extent of the penalty which it is neither a county nor borough rate, 1; •
7 a special rate
f I
enforced. He suggested, therefore, that, instead of mis- denominated an election rate, to be levied on the electoral
J. RUSSELL thought there was some omission •
and, 1 di si,f,
er ircdt. 11,eemeanour, the penalty should be fixed at 50 pounds;
'" thought necessary, Parliament might hereafter increase
in
its severit • ecesBarY,
the bill in not d•
provi ing for-payment of the cost of publics-
Me. G
• se essential to the tion.
1 Supposing the expense were to be paid by
the candi-
bill, ..Aa' KI. BUTT considered the clause
the noble I date, a very fit place for making that addition would beat
lord. aPProved the mitigatory suggestion of
1 the end of clause 34. But his noble Mend said it ought
lierd R. Glues
that the magistrate 1 to be paid out of the borough or county rate. He thought
showd have w VENOR suggested
of
eases where tre oft
erento inflict a lower amount penalty
,fore it should be made either by a separate bill, or by a
'character. offence did not appear to be of a flagrant
separate clause, and not by adding a few words at the end
Mr. W. .7. FOX s
of a clause. He did not think it advisable to throw the
If the word " • ,uPPorted the retention of the clause.
expenses of an election on a county or borough, and this
naisoternesem , the
penalty ought to be ve ur'. was to be withdrawn, 1
i amendment involved! that principle, different from the law
Sir F. KELLY opprZed
considerably increased. ,
' as it now stood.
thorised the payment of the amendment. If they au-
Mr. DEEDES objected to the amendment.
tion except to or ment
relating to an else- Mr.
BRIGHT believed from his experience of newspaper
open the door to a large e election officer, they would
to get hold of
expenditure •
proprietors there would be great competition
and other corrupt practices. (Rear bribing,
In treating,
ts and to publish them. They would prove an
.)these accounts Mr. W. WILLIAMS regretted t
be uite
hat the noble interesting item of intelligence, and he should q
lord had