The Sun.
London, England, 1853-04-29 00:00:00

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THE SUN,- LONDON; FRIDAY IVENING, APRIL 29 185 3,

unacquainted with the details of African life, will
find in them an instructive and entertaining record
of the inhabitants, the colonists, the customs, the
climate, and the national and European laws of the
Gold Coast of Africa.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF COMMONS-(YESTERDAY.)

THE BUDGET.

The house went into committee of ways and means ; Mr
Bouverie in the chair.
The resolutions on the income tax and Sri B. Lytton's
amendment having been put,
Mr. COBDEN said—l think I observed, in the remarks
with which the right hon. gentleman the Chancellor of the
Exchequer opened the subject in his very remarkable—l
may say very marvellous—speech, that he spoke with some
degree of emotion, and I thought even pathos, as to the
way in which this house had been spending the anticipated
surplus of the revenue. I thought it came from him in a
tone that seemed rather to invite the attention of this
house to that part of his financial statement ; and I really
do not know that I have any other motive for intruding
myself thus early, except that, at this moment, when taking
a full view of our assets and liabilities, we present ourselves
before the public very much as trustees, and are bound to
look at what has been done, as well as what may be done,
for those who have confided their interests to our care, and
it therefore strikes me as being a very proper time to give
our attention, among other matters, to the way in which
that amount of surplus has been disposed of. I promised
the house I am not going to make a peace oration. (Hear.)
I do not blame this Government, or the last, for what they
did in the way of expenditure, but I blame many parties
out of the house for having rendered it almost necessary
that such an expenditure should have been incurred ; nay,
I thank the noble lord at the head of the present Govern-
ment that he did not take the opportunity many silly
people, and some not over honest people, gave him of in-
creasing enormously the expenditure of the country. I
have no hesitation in saying—in admitting—that if his
lordship at the end of last session had proposed an ad-
dition of 20,000 men to the army, and of 10,000 men to
the navy, the proposal would have been received with ac-
clamation, and we poor peace people, if we had escaped
martyrdom, should hardly have escaped being pumped
upon. Now, is it not a matter of sincere regret, almost of
reproach, that we have permitted ourselves to be led away so
as to incur this great and permanent increase to our estab-
lishment ? How, then, do we stand ? I merely speak of
our military and naval expenditure, and will not go back
now to 1835. I only go two years back—to 1851. Since
1851 we have added to the expenditure for our naval and
military establishments, including militia, commissariat,
and other outgoings, 1,875,0001. This expenditure,
15,555,0001. in 1851, was 16,431,0001. in 1852, and
17,400,000 for 1853. Now what I want to call the atten-
tion of the house to—and particularly of the member for
North Warwickshire, who said the Manchester school
were going to ruin the aristocracy—is this, that if you
had made no such increase since 1851 you would have had
a surplus now large enough to cover all these remissions
without the necessity of one farthing additional taxation.
I ask the house to consider how these rely scions of taxa-
tion are inevitable. You may get them by savings,
and by the growth of your surplus revenue, but if you
eat up the surplus by constant additions to our mili-
tary establishments, you must have a fund necessary for
this remission of taxation out of property or income.
(Hear, hear.) And I care not whoever may be in power,
whether the present Chancellor of the Exchequer or the
late Chancellor of the Exchequer may have the handling of
the figures, they will be inevitably driven to a policy which
shall aim at reductions in the Excise and Customs duties,
even at the expense of direct taxation. (Hear, hear.) The
right hon. gentleman opposite proposed a partial remission
of the malt tax, thus dealing with indirect taxation, and
proposed to put on an increased house tax, which is a
direct tax. (Hear.) The present Chancellor of the Ex-
, chequer propoz,es to lay a legacy tax on real estate, with
the view of effecting large remissions of indirect taxation.
The late Government fell solely in their attempt to find a
, substitute for the deficiency to be created by the remission
'of the malt tax, and they might have been in power now
but for that insuperable obstacle. (Hear, hear.) If the
present Chancellor of the Exchequer is in danger at this
moment, it is only on account of the difficulty of finding a
direct tax which will enable him to make the necessary re-
missions. (Hear, hear.) I wish gentlemen to consider that
we are now come to a time when, if you will be extrava-
gant, you must be extravagant at the expense of property.
(Hear, hear.) The remission of indirect taxation must go
on. It is not merely the interest of humanity—but that
has something to do with it—but you cannot, in these
days, when every one professes at least an interest and re-
gard for the poor, levy, a larger amount than is levied in
other countries upon articles which are consumed by the
great majority of the population. And there is another
reason why you must diminish the amount of taxation,
and that is because you find that the peace and prosperity
of the country depend upon the constantly increasing em-
ployment of the masses of the people, and you cannot
secure that employment except by constantly removing
the impediments which stand in the way of industry,
and that will grow greater in proportion as our com-
merce and our population increase. (Hear, hear.) Take,
for instance, the case of the Cue Ins regulations.
A. great, and I think a just alarm, has been
felt by our merchants on account of the obstacles
presented to commerce by the Customs regulations. Those
regulations were bad enough when you had to deal with
only 30,000,0301. or 40,000,030/. of exports and imports,
but they are grievous and insupportable in dealing with an
import of 70,000,C)01. or 80,000,0001. But that is not all.
The velocity of transactions of all kinds has increased—
screw vessels are taking the place of sailing vessels, and a
voyage to America, which formerly occupied from 30 to 40
days, is now performed in 10 or 12. If you are economising
time on the voyage, will not the grievance be greater than
ever if our merchants are subjected to the same delays and
impediments at the Custom-home as those to which they
have hitherto been subjectcd. These barriers must ulti-
mately give way; but how ? You cannot alter your tariff
so as to allow free goods to come in without rigid examina-
tion, unless by a total revolution in your fiscal system, so
far as regards import duticz. You cannot allow bales of
cotton to be landed in Liverpool without thrusting a wire
through them in order to ascertain that they are not con-
verted into bales of tobacco. If you retain a duty of 3s. a
pound on tobacco, and allowgoods to come in without search
they will soon be converted into packages of tobacco. But
you could not effect any change in that respect except by
reducing the duty to 3d. or 6d. per pound. You must re-
duce it to that extent, or you will fail altogether. I hope
there would not be such an increase of smoking as to en-
able the Chancellor of the Exchequer to obtain as large a
revenue at 3d. per pound as he does at 3s. That would be
a loss of some 2,000,0001. or 3,0)0,0001. at least. And how
would that have to be made up? Why, by direct taxation.
And that is the case with respect to other articles. You
must make up your minds that you will to make constant
remissions. Every year since 1842 has witnessed a constant
remission of indirect taxes. The right hon. gentleman oppo-
site did not propose a remission of the Customs of Excise
duties, but there was a self-acting process in the sugar duties
effecting that change. The reduction of indirect taxation
must go on, and the question is, how are the means to be
raised to carry that object, into effect. I come now to the
practical question before us. Here is s:rtually a deficiency,
because I look on the remission of taxation as inevitable.
Although the right hon. gentleman has a surplus of
500,0001. or 603,0001., he was obliged to lay on fresh taxes
in order to meet the inevitable demand for remission.
(Hear.) Then how are we to meet that which is a deficit?.
The right hon. gentleman has proposed an income and
property tax. He has proposed it is ith arguments very
elaborate, very able, and I might say, very subtle. But
to my mind, that part of the speech of the right hon. gen-
tleman in which he dealt with the income tax was the
least satisfactory. (Hear, hear.) It was the most decla-
matory, and appeared to me to be the least conclusive. He
began by alluding to Mr. Pitt, and atatcd that this tax
having served our purpose during t'-e war ought not to be
used in a time of peace. Now, is it not time to have done
with such an argument as this ? Is there not this answer
to it, that other taxes also did their work during the war ?
The customs and excise duties did their work during the
war, and it would be just as reasonable to say that we ought
to put the giant customs by and allow him to repose until
another war breaks out. lid why not ? Is there any thing
intrinsically worse in the income tax than in the taxes on
tea and on wine ? In that way is it worse ? Does it give
rise to greater oppretrion in its incidence ? See how large a
portion of the income of a poor man with a family is spent
on the half-ounces of tea that he is under the necessity of
purchasing. What is paid for the du4 on that tea ? The
same duty is paid on his tea, which you can purchase in
the bonded warehouse at 10id. per lb., as on the finest
flowery pekoe or gunpowder which costs c 6s. ; can you
show any thing in the income tax more un- in its ope-
ration than that ? (Hear.) Take, again, the case of the wine
duties. You put a duty on the wine which is purchased
at ss. a bottle. You put the same duty on the rim c rdi-
wire, which might be bought by a poor man in the south
of France for twopence. Is there anything more unequal
in the income tax than that? (Hear.) I might go through
the whole list of taxes, and although you would not
find the same inequalities in all cases, yet, when you bear
in mind that when you lay a tax on consumable articles of
every day comfort, you may be sure the mass of the people
pay a far larger sum in proportion to heir incomes than is
paid by the rich. (Hear, hear.) Where, then, are you to
make exceptions for the income tax as compared with the
other great taxes which served Mr. Pitt so usefully during
the war ? Is it that it offends more against the laws of
political economy in taking a greater portion from the
pockets of people than arrives at its destination in the Ex-
chequer ? No. I question whether you might not collect
a direct tax cheaper than an indirect tix. Does it offend
against the laws of political economy, that it obstructs
commerce, that it impedes industry more than an indirect
tax? On the contrary, however oppressive it may be, I
never heard it said that the income tax interferes with the
progress of industry or impedes commerce in any way
whatever. Well, then, is it demoralising—does it produce
greater evil by demoralising our traders ? The right hon.
gentleman has said a great deal about self assessment. But
I would ask him does not the levying of the Excise duties
produce more demoralisation than any direct tax? Take,
for instance, the case of the tobacco trade. I remember
being in the Chamber of Commerce in Manchester when a
deputation from the dealers in tobacco and snuff waited on
us in order to expose the adulteration carried on in their
gsaeindtlteem teis n whomo stwferreenu thye, largestaiter dealers an
trade, and to induce the Chamber of Commerce to interfere
for the purpose of effecting an alteration of the duty. The
manufacturers
exposing
adll the different articles with
which tobacco was coloured and adulterated,
such as the beard from
malt,
peat moss, and things of that
kind, "There is not a
man in this neighbourhood who carries
on the tobacco and snuff trade without illegal adulteration
except Mr. Read"--.9,
gentleman who was then present, but
who has since left the trade, and who, although not less
orders. (Hear, hear.) ambrfdge, and is now in holy
worse in the income Now, can you find any thing
pointed out. (Hear, tax than in the case I have
amount of criminality arising I would remark also on the
man go into any- one of our mit of these taxes. Let any
to the gaol at Winchester, or maritimet counties—let him go
coun-
ties on the south coast, and inquiregaol in any of the
commit-
ments for smuggling, and how many the number of
left destitute by their parents being children have been
country on account of siriugglingn-ga obliged to quit the
whether there is anything more demi:torah
then.n let him say
come tax assessment than in the -system ofsingdutiatthte *t"

I tion ? I think the right hon. gentleman has acted quite o say a few words—l mean the proposed mode of dealing
wisely in including incomes of 100/. As an advocate of with the advertisement and stamp duties. Considering the
direct taxation, I would, as an abstract principle, levy it comparatively small sum which these duties produce, I
upon everybody where the tax could be collected with a hope the Chancellor of the Exchequer will not make two
' profit. lam assuming that no other tax existed. But bites of a cherry—l want to see the connection between
when you have laid so much taxation on the working peo- the press and the Government discontinued. (Loud cr es
ple in an indirect way—when they pay more than the of "hear, hear," and laughter.) Well, I know the meaning
upper classes in proportion to their means—you are under of that laugh—l know what it refers to—it is in allusion
this necessity, you must endeavour to compensate them by to a subject which has been much talked about. It has
levying a direct tax upon the property of those who are been said that the right hon. gentleman the Chancellor of
richer and above them in station, and who do not pay as the Exchequer, in proposing to remit the stamp upon sup-
much in proportion in . direct taxes as they ought to pay. plements containing advertisements only, would give a boon
(Hear.) Ido not propose that the income tax should be to one paper, and various remarks have, of course, been
levied on all wages, and I think the right hon. gentleman been made as to the motives of the right honourable gen-
has acted wisely in drawing the line at 1001. (Hear.) tleman in giving this boon to one particular paper. (Hear,
I have said that the working people pay a large amount of hear.) Now, Ido not believe that the right honourable
indirect taxation. We sometimes hear that a large amount gentleman is capable of acting in the unworthy manner
of Customs and Excise duties have been remitted, and it which some would have us imagine. (Cheers.) I believe
is supposed that by reducing them you have diminished the the right hon. gentleman has with all parties, both in and
pressure of these taxes on the working people. But you out of this houses too much credit for the character of sin-
have done nothing. You have only been ingeniously shift- cerity and truthfulness to be supposed capable of being a
ing the burden ever since the time of Mr. Huskisson. You party to any transaction of the kind. (Renewed cheering.)
have tried it in a variety of ways so as to make it gall the But the.suspicion to which I allude, how does it arise ?
least, but the burden still remains. I will give you an illus. Because the Government is enabled to deal with taxes
tration of this. The amount of Customs and Excise duties which may be made to favour one particular newspaper.
paid in 1831 was 35,680,0001. The estimate for the corn- So it is with the advertisement duty. The duty is to be
ing year is 33,320,000 i., so that there is only 360,000/. less reduced to sixpence, but that sixpence is still keeping up
paid now in indirect taxes than in the year 1831, al- the connection between the Government and the newspaper
though during that time you have reduced your Cus- press. A number of newspapers will want the sixpence off,
toms and Excise duties some 12,030,003/. or 15,000,000/. and others will want it continued, and the result will, or
per annum. There has, of course, been an increase in the at least may, be that the Government will weigh and balance
population, but the same amount is now paid as was paid the rival influences, and shape their public course accor-
in 1831, notwithstanding the great remissions which have dingly. Now, I say the Government should have no con-
taken place. (Hear, hear.) I now come to deal with the nection whatever with the newspaper press. Let us, there-
question of the application of the income tax to Ireland, fore, adhere to the resolutions of this house, and if we deal
and that seems to be the great difficulty of the Government i with the advertisement duty at all, let us abolish it alto-
on the present occasion. The Irish members on the other gather. (Hear, hear.) In the same way, if the right hon.
side of the house will not suppose that I am anxious to I gentleman is resolved to deal with the stamp duty, he
impose upon them any unjust burdens. lam the advocate should not do so in the interest of one particular paper for
of religious and fiscal equality to the greatest extent. the present, and not more than three or four prospectively
(Hear, hear.) So far as regards religious equality, what- I —perhaps not more than one. If the right hon. gentle-
ever odium I may incur by the declaration, I will say that man should be advised by some of the larger provincial
nothing could induce me to place a fetter on the consciences papers to alter his plan so as to leave the present penny
of the Roman Catholics. If I could make you so, you stamp upon newspapers, allowing supplements to go free,
should be as free in the practice and observance of your whether they contain news or advertisements, or both, he
faith as if you were across the Atlantic. (Cheers.) I will then be falling into an error similar in character,
would do the same with regard to fiscal questions. There though not so great in degree, as he has now fallen into
must be perfect equality between the two countries, and with regard to one particular journal. There is only one
every tax paid by this country must be paid by Ireland. newspaper at present in the practice of publishing supple-
(Hear.) Ido not want to lay heavy burdens on either the ments containing advertisements. If you allow supple-
English or the Irish people. If I had my will they should ments containing advertisements and news to be published
both pay less taxes, but you can have no safety for the without a stamp, there will be at the outside—l speak of
proper working of the legislature if you have amongst you I the state of things at the present moment—about half a
members for one part of the kingdom which pays less taxes score of newspapers in the kingdom which will be in a
than the other parts. (Hear, hear.) I have noticed the I position to profit by the remission. They alone will benefit
working of this system for a long time, and I will tell by it, and the result will be directly opposed to the principle
honourable gentlemen from Ireland one of the symptoms which the Chancellor of the Exchequer has laid down in
which I have observed arising from that discrepancy of his mode of dealing with trade licences, where he has pro-
taxation. I have seen gentlemen take very little interest posed a graduated tax according to the extent of business
in the Imperial expenditure, unless on some question involv. carried on. The right honourable gentleman proposes
ing the transfer of the taxes pc..id in England to some to allow a newspaper twice the size of the Times to be
locality in Ireland, and hence you fight for that bauble printed for %penny stamp, but he still intends to charge
—your lord-lieutenancy—(hear, hear, and laughter), and a penny for every small struggling sheet which may
hence you fight for your Kilmainham Hospital—(cheers and be published, though it may not be half the size of one
laughter), although it is a mere nest of jobbery—(hear, of the sides of the Times. Mark the effect of this. The
hear, and " oh, oh.") I have had the opportunity of in- small paper having to pay a penny stamp will be perfectly
quiring into that subject, and, as a member of the commit- unable to compete with the large one, because the condi-
tee, I speak from a knowledge of the circumstances of the tions will be unequal. I have seen in my own experience
case. (Hear, hear.) Now, what is the reason that no in Lancashire that whenever a newspaper, no matter what
statesman has thought of proposing that our colonies its politics might be. could publish a supplement regularly,
should unite with the mother country in one common le- so great was the des: e on the part of readers to have a
gislature ? What renders it impossible ? Not space. No, large mass of additional news—a large surface of paper—
it is because the colonies, not paying our Imperial taxation, that it became immediately necessary for all the other
and not being liable for our debt, could not sit here, with newspapers in the district to publish supplements also, or
safety to us or with propriety to themselves, to legislate on else consent to be trampled out of existence. That will be
matters of taxation in which they are not concerned. the case of every newspaper of ordinary size and circula-
(Hear, hear.) What happened on the last occasion on tion if the Chancellor of the Exchequer adheres to his de-
which I addressed myself to the subject of the budget ? I termination to charge a uniform rate of one penny upon
followed the hon. member for Belfast, who rose to support all newspapers, large or small, and at the same time abo-
the proposition for doubling the house tax and laying the lishes the stamps upon supplements of every description, a
income tax on my constituents in Barnsley and Leeds. The proposal which will be the most destructive thing for the
people of these towns are largely engaged in the manufac- interests of all second and third class newspapers that can
ture of linens. Belfast is engaged in the same trade. The possibly be passed in this country. I beg to tell the right
hon. member who represents that town voted for taxing hon. gentlemen opposite that the newspapers in their in-
my constituents at Barnsley and Leeds. (Hear, hear, terest are not the largest, the wealthiest, or the best circu-
hear.)
And how is he going to vote now ? If he votes lated in England. (A laugh.) But let us put the Chan-
now against the extension of the income tax to his own cellor of the Exchequer to the test of his own principles.
constituents at Belfast, then I want no other proof. There He says, if a man keeps a gig and two horses he shall pay
it is complete. (Hear, hear.) It would never do to allow a tax of 155.; but if he keeps a carriage with four wheels 1
men to sit in the same house of representatives represent- he shall pay double. Why does the right hon. gentleman
ing different interests, because they could help a Minister refuse to apply that principle in the case of newspapers ? i
to impose a tax upon their neighbours on condition that Why does he allow a person who keeps a four-in-hand to
he should exempt themselves. (Hear, hear.) How would get off with paying the same stamp duty as a man with a
the case be if we allowed representatives from our colonies gig ?If a shopkeeper has such a prosperous business that 1
to sit in this house? An ambitious and unscrupulous his shop overflows with customers, and he finds it neces- 1
Minister'could make use of these men, supposing they had sary to open another establishment, will the Chancellor of '
not the virtues which ordinary men possess—(a laugh)—for the Exchequer take no heed of this supplement shop, or
the purpose of oppressing the English people. He might put no new tax upon it ? Why, the right hon. gentleman
say to them, "Help me in this extremity, and las 'll help will not bear the test of his own principles. Really, he :
you to prevent the English pc opie putting a tax upon the must deal with this question of stamps as with advertise-
colonies." (Hear, hear.) The consequence might be that ments—either have no stamp at all, or allow a charge to be
you woald have an irresponsible Government, a constant made for all papers going through the Post-office, gra-
succession of coups d'etat, until the people of this country dusted according to their weight and size, permitting those
would rise and demand a separation from the colonies— which do not go through the Post-office, but are circu-
(Loud cries of "hear, hear," from a portion of the Irish lated only in their respective localities, to be published
members, followed by laughter in all parts of the free of all duty whatever. (Hear.) With respect to the
house.) Now, on the present occasion ovr Government, rest of the budget, I will not detain the house with many
true to the invariable system in this country of compro- observations ; but I must be allowed to refer shortly to
mises, have proposed to grant to the honourable gentle- the question of soap. lam glad that this question has
man opposite—that is, to Ireland—a very large boon in- been dealt with at at last. It has been a standing re-
deed, if they will accept their quota of the income tax proach to us for years. It has marked as hypocrisy all
(Hear, hear.) If I could whisper to them, knowing what our pretences upon the subject of clean linen. I have sat
Ido of the temper out of doors with regard to the equali- in meetings of sanitary committees for the establ'shruent
zation of taxation, I would say to them, close the bargain of baths and washhouses, and have thought of the soap
at once—take the income tax—get rid of the Consolidated duty until I was ashamed. So with the paper duties.
Annuities. (Hear, hear.) Why, if I understand it right, While we talk of education, and tax the very material by
the proposal that is made is almost in money amount equal which knowledge is diffused, we shall be justly accused of
to the charge that is to be remitted. (Mr. Fftgan—No.) hypocrisy. (Hear.) But that question apart, I do hope
My hon. friend behind me surely does not expect that Ire- that the budget in its main propositions may pass this
land is going to pay us between 4,000,000/. and 5,003,0001., house. (Cheers.) I believe, so far as I have an opportun-
even with the income tax extended to that country. I say
.)
ity of judging, that it is generally accepted by the coma-
you are going to get almost an equivalent for the income try. (Renewed cheering I believe the proposed legacy
tax. But look at the charge that is to be remitted, and tax removes the sore which has been festering in the minds
see how it puts you out of court as advocates of the poor in of the people of this country for .a long time, and in the
Ireland. (Hear, hear.) As I understand the principle interest of the parties concerned I should say the sooner
upon which the Consolidated Annuities tax is levied, it is the tax is put on the better. Ido not think there will be
paid by the very poorest class of farmers in Ireland. (Hear, much resistance to it. I amtold that in the other house
hear.) Is it so ? (Cries of "no, no," from the Irish mem- it is looked upon with the greatest severity. (Laughter
,bars, and cheers from other parts of the house.) I believe and cheers.) There is no opposition to it in the other
the fact is as I have stated it. (An Hon. Member—Only house. I was breakfasting the other day with a gentle-
half of the tax is paid by tenants.) 'Of course, one-half is man of the diplomatic corps, and, while conversing upon
paid by the landlord, and the other half by the tenant. this subject in French, he said it was very easy to explain
(An Hon. Member—Tenants under Si. do not pay any por- why the House of Lords was in favour of the tax, and
tion of the tax.) Just so. That shows into what small why the House of Commons was against it. The reason
portions the land is divided in Ireland. (Hear, hear.) It is, said he, that the ono in the house is the Cluzmbre des
is almost inconceivable to the English agriculturists thatyou Pains (perm), and the other the Clatmbre des Fits.
should have rentals under 51. ; but that is just the class that (Laughter.) Some hem gentlemen have asked if the in-
is going to be benefited and relieved, because the proposal of come tax will be put an end to in the year 1860. Now, if
the Government is to aboush a tax of which one-half is paid I should live as long iu the political arena, I would not
by the poorer tenantry down to rentals of Si., and to extend like anything to be brought against me in 1860 to prove
to Ireland, instead, a propel :3, and income tax upon all that I had sanctioned or encouraged any such idea. I
persons with incomes of 1031. a year and upwards. (Hear, have a firm conviction that you must go on every year re-
hear.) Now, how many farmers are there in Ireland at the mitting'part of your indirect taxation, and I should not be
present moment who pay a rental of about 2031. a-year ? dealing fairly with you if I told you that I saw any pros-
Perhaps I should explain to the hon. gentlemen opposite that pact of getting rid of the income tax. There are certainly
it is only the farmer who pays 2001. a year rental that will two ways of doing it. It can only be done either by the
be required to pay income tax upon an income of 1001. per imposition of some other direct tax, or by a very large
annum. I ask you, therefore, how many farmers are there retrenchment of the expenditure ; and in either case you
in Ireland who pay 2001. a year for their land ? Surely you must render available to the Chancellor of the Exchequer
will suffer the income tax to be imposed upon the rich, in the means of meeting the constantly increasing necessity
order that you may relieve the multitude of small tenants for the remission of indirect taxation. But Ido not think
down to 51. rentals. (Hear, hear.) Why, it is the most the right hon. gentleman wishes those who vote with him
beneficent boon that has ever •been offered to the class to pledge themselves that the income tax will be put an end
whose interests you have always professed to support. to in 1860. I believe he is sincere himself, and that if he
(Cheers.) Take the case of au income of 10/. a-year. He should happen to be in power in 1860, and anything should
is a very genteel Person in Ireland who has an income of be done by his colleagues to prevent him carrying out his
1001. (A laugh.) You live much cheaper in Ireland than own views, he would rather leave office than be any party
we can do in England. 'YIN have no assessed taxes, and to what might possibly appear to be a breach of faith.
your provisions are cheaper. .An income of 1001. a-year, (Hear, hear.) I hope the right hon. gentleman will be here
therefore, is qv'te as well able to pay income tax in Ire- in 1860. May we all live as long ! (A laugh.) But how
land as in England. (Hear, hear.) Indeed, lam disposed can we bind a future Parliament? No, that is not possible;
to say, considering that the standard of living is higher we cannot pledge a future Legislature to the adoption of any
here, and the cost of living rather more, that 1001. a-year measure. We shall have a Reformed Parliament before
is a larger income in Ireland than it is in England. (Hear, 1860. Probably the tax will be changed to a property tax
hofeathre)m areßn now
But take tehoemcpeasteinogf
with
br
olaurrgeß
nmerchants—somesitsh
merchants before then ;or it may be levied in another way—upon ca-
pitalised incomes for example ; or the house may be so
and shipowners. I could name large capitalists sitting in charmed with the probate and legacy duties, that it may
counting-houses in Dublin, who have ships sailing from desire to increase them ;or something or other may occur
Liverpool and other ports in this country, and I ask, is it to render the abolition of the income tax possible ; but I
fair that the vessels of rich Dublin merchants, who pay no would guard myself most carefully from, being supposed to
income tax, should come in rivalry with ships belonging pledge myself in any way to the abrogation of this tax in
to the merchants of Lancashire who have to ay income 1860. (Cheers.)
tax ?Is that common sense, or is it not ? (Hear, hear.) Mr. Sergeant SHEE said that, in offering a few obser-
I hear a great deal said about the amount that England is vations to the house, he would endeavour to get rid of the
indebted to Ireland and Ireland to England. The hon. feelings of irritation which the speech to which they had just
member for South Lancashi'-e, who ought to be accepted listened had produced. For that purpose he would advert
as a good authority by hon. gentlemen opposite, inasmuch to the remarks which fell on a former occasion from the lips
as he is an Irishman like themselves, makes it out that you of the hon. member for Carlow (Mr. Ball), who entreated
are in our debt to the amount of 300,000,000/. (Hear, and the Irish representatives to consider themselves for once as
laughter.) Then the hon. member for Glasgow' who, to members, not for Ireland only, but for the United Kin
judge by his name, must have Celtic blood in his veins, dom. The hon. member, in giving them that advice, adopted
puts down your indebtedness at the sum of 160,000,0001. as theid d
ride of his conduct a certain principle laid down own by
(Hear.) I believe the late Mr. O'Connell turned the figures Mr. Burke, and perhaps there was no man in that house '
the other way, and the result he brought out was that we better entitled to act upon the maxim of the distinguished
were indebted to you in the sum of 60,000,0 C g (A laugh.) statesman referred to, because of all the Irish members he
My advice is, get the Statute of Limitations appliel to was the only one who demonstrated on all occasions his sin-
both sides—balance the one amount against the other—pay cere sympathy with and attachment to the cause and inte-
the same taxes as England—and unite a :th us in advocat- rests of the Government which was in power. (Hear.)
ing retrenchment and economy. (Cheers.) When I say No matter what the Government did, the honourable mem-
" us," I refer to that section of the house who are generally her for Carlow voted with it. (Cries, of oh, oh, and laugh-
understood to advocate. economy io the management ter.) He seemed determined to be a thick-and-thin sup-
of the national affairs, who always vote with you when- porter of the Government, and was not, therefore, in a
ever you want freedom, who are the constant and energetic condition to lecture those who occupied an independent
suorters of the principles of civil and religious liberty, position in that house. With respect to the question
and who sympathise with yo in our demands for equal before the house, he thought that the proposed extension
rights and equal justice to Iruelandy. unite with us, then, of the income tax to Ireland could not be defended upon
not only upon fiscal questions, but open
all other ques- any principle of justice, and he would give it his most do-
tions that affect the happiness and' well-being of the people. termined opposition. The tax could only be introduced
Accept the income tax ;for be assured that public opinion into Ireland upon the fallacious plea that the debts of the
will not much longer tolerate any inequality in our tam- two countries approximated had so closely in value that
the Government might,lin terms of the articles of union,
tion. ; and after you have done this there will be nothing
left exclusively to the people of England but the assessed call upc:m thelri h
sthe pe to share their burdens. But he
taxes. I hope the Chancellor of the Exchequer will do maintained that debt of Ireland had been increased to
justice in that matter also, not by putting the assessed its present amount by the bad legislation of the English
taxes upon you, but by abolishing the whole system, and Governments For what was the enormous debt contract-
adding
instead s fraction to the property and income tax. ed. Not assuredly for the benefit of Ireland. It was, he
I trust the hon. gentlemen opposite will reconsider the supposed, for the benefit of Ireland that we had lavished
subject. The thing is inevitable. I tell you candidly and enormous sums on the metropolis, for the benefit of Ireland
frankly that there may be a dissolution upon this ques- that we were at war, for the benefit of Ireland—in some
tion of the equalisation of taxation. (Loud cries of sense it was, and no doubt Ireland showed her interest in
" Hear, hear," from the Irish members.) I have no doubt the wars we carried on, for her sons shed their blood freely
that the hon. gentlemen who represent Irish constitu- for this country ; but it was to gratify ourselves, to main-
encies will not like to vote for the extension of a tax to tain our own interests, to promote the glory of our own
Ireland from which she has hitherto been exempt; but I country, to protect our shores from invasion, that this
say this most emphatically; the thing will be done whe- enormous expenditure took place, and Ireland, had she not
ther you agree to it or not. (Cheers.) There is another been united to Great Britain, might have
-but any,
point to which I wish to refer for a few moments. It is all without adding—he would not say ar shilling-e.bt Therefore,
Exchequer regard to licenses. I believe the Chancellor of the at least, considerable amount to he d
legally be
Exchequer has said that this subject is still under the con- though the Chancellor of the Exchequer might.
be
Now, of in the able to impose this additional tax on Ireland, it would
sideration of the Government. course,
case of .a budget, if we express our adhesion to its main difficult for any one to show that it would be equitable for
treated like the members him to do so. His budget came out under peculiar circum-
principles, we do not expect to be which shall
whereof Assembly in another country, . be nameless,
(M D. 11— h he informed the hon-
a budget is presented, turned upside down, looked tleman below r. Disraeli)—who i w o
made him no
n no account be altered. ourable member for Carlow had certainly
at in various ways, but must o
(A laugh.) I have no doubt
the Chancellor of the magnificent promisee, and who, he hoped, had made
Exchequer will be obliged to us
that gentleman none—and now they had another from the
. scheme. With rig
for any criticisms we
hthonoura ebl gentleman. Against the former he had
regard to licenses, I think la
financial
may offer on the details of hise
has
erred in the matter voted ; and he must say he did not like to vote against
upon what grin- two budgets in the same year. Against the former, lion.
of principle. I cannot understandnteto p
opposite had also voted ; but their main objec-
-1 man proposes lay a gentlemen
ciple the right honourable gentleman he believed, its being proposed by the leader
in tea and tobacco. (Hear, tion to it was,
tax upon all traders who deal
h the Excise should re. of the party opposed to thom. Two very able, two woo-
hear.) I can understand w3'
derfully clever m ,
en had proposed budgets in a very short,
quire that a dealer who sells tea or tobacco, or any .
surveillance is thought neces- time, an e secon ,
d th d of course, felt himself bound to pro-
other article over which
and why there should be a pose something new. Accordingly he threw over the housen
sary, should register himself,
who deals in articles which tax to make friends of the voters in the. boroughs i
nominal fee ; but why a trader
England • he reduced taxation on many articles of mere
to the Government should be re- En. , es • and then, knowing it
already pay large taxes
duty for on his busi- luxury, such as the assessed tax ,
he did what all his
• dto pay an ad valorem carrying
would be quite popular in England,
quire
are not taxed in the same way, Idoing—threw the income
ness, while other traders predecessors had been ashamed.of
loss to conceive. (Hear, hear.) honourable gentleman
confess I am altogether at a
tea and tobacco were xempt tax on Ireland. Was the right . .
If I found that the dealers inwas paid by the rest of the I quite sure that, according even to his own estimate of her
now pay as much as she was able
from some other tax which
.
of the legacy duty,ability, Ireland did not
, for instance, in the case
Supposing that was not the case, let them see
which t burden upon personal property only Ito Pay ?
for the West Riding had to
which is at presen a what place the hon. member
the ro osed na ost should ,
—then I could understand whyp
I confess ?hovel p no ! stand upon in his attack on the Irish representatives.
be levied upon yet heard
them ; but- Speaking as a member of the United Kingdom, he said
tradesmen, who already pay heavy - kl and unhesitatingly that there was no one in the
reason why a class of
they deal, should be called frail y
taxes upon the articles in which ey
house who had so little claim to credit from Ireland as had
he other classes of the
a tax not levied upon t the hon. gentleman. There was no man in the
upon to pay
earnestly hope that the right hon. house who,
community, and I do earn not having been born in a station of influence, not having
gentleman will alter this point of his financial scheme.
int upon which I wish taken his place near or close to the Treasury bench at the
(Hear, hear.) There is one other pot