The Sun.
London, England, 1853-08-06 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY'-'EVENING) AUGUST 6, 1853.

noble friend who has the management of the business in
the House of Commons, and who the noble earl really
seems to think has been remiss and slothful in that
house. I believe your lordships will admit that, al-
though this bill may have come up to this house at
a late period of the session, it has not been for want
of time for consideration while in the House of Com-
mons, and that the noble earl has no .excuse or valid
reason for not condescending to pronounce an opinion
upon it as to whether he approves of the measure or not.
The noble earl asserted all along that there is not time
to discuss this bill ' • but still, when he comes to explain
what he meant by discussion, it seems to be that he has
not had time to summon together persons to vote.
(Hear.) Now, noble lords who were anxious to discuss
the bill would find means to be present. I admit that
it would not be Po convenient or so practicable to sum-
mon persons blindly to vote for or against the inefsure
at this period of the session ; but this is not a proceed-
ing which can affect the merits of the bill. (Hear.) My
lords, my noble friend near me has gone so fully into
the objects and character of the bill that it is quite un-
necessary for me again to travel over the same ground.
lam anxious to hear what will, I have no doubt, in-
struct and enlighten your lordships, the opinion and the
views taken by other noble lords in this house, and espe-
cially those of my noble friend opposite (Lord Ellen-
borough) who has paid so much attention to the subject,
and to whom your lordships always listen with the
greatest attention and respect. (Hear, hear.). I trust
that he, at least, will give us his opinion on all the points
connected with the bill, and will not follow the example
which has been set by the noble earl (of Malmesbury),
and which, I think, is one better followed in the breach
than on the observance. (Cheers.)
Lord ELLENBOROUGH said that he had already
made his speech on the subject, and had very few points
to discuss. He did not think noble lords near him jus-
tified in throwing off all responsibility, for there had been
many discussions on the subject, and their lordships proba-
bly approached it with better information than was usual
when a great question was to be dealt with. The bill
was not what he should have desired, but the greatest
part of it that was bad was not new, and what was new
was not bad. He had not a word to say against the
just sentence of mutilation pronounced against the
Court of Directors, nor would he delay its execution,
but it might have been rendered more merciful to the
parties, and more advantageous to the country. After
some amusing remarks upon the election of the fifteen
directors, which he thought ought to take place at the
London Tavern, he ridiculed the claim of the three whose
seniority was their title. He would have named the
new directors in the bill itself, and then the best would
have been chosen. He would have named eight for the
presidencies, four for the army, two for the political de-
partment, and two, unconnected with Government, who
should represent alcutta and Bombay. Then a council
would have been formed that would have been able to
advise the minister, who would now have to get infor-
mation as best he might. As regarded the Governor-
General, the wisdom of Parliament controverted that of
Scripture, and declared that a man could serve two
masters. He himself had not to complain of recall,
but of the undermining of the Government while he
was executing it. In illustration of this portion of
his address, he cited his own language to the
Court, and said that his own fear was from the
weakness of the Government. He considered that
it was essential to the strength of the Government
of India that it should be conducted in the name
of the Crown. Such a change would be most salu-
tary as regarded the native princes, and would give a
better tone to the civil and military service. The army
especially deserved to be made a royal army. These
were his objections, and he proceeded to regret that Go-
vernment, having an opportunity of doing a great thing,
had chosen to do it in a small way, and to introduce bit
by bit reform. The new system would be better than
that which had preceded it ; but it would not give satis-
faction in India, nor would it work advantageously.
Our empire in India would not be destroyed by violence,
but by the slow poison which induced gradual decay.
Lord SALISBURY referred to the precedents of
1813 to justify the protest which his friends made against
the introduction of an India Bill at such a period of the
session.
- -

I
,Pald RAILWAYS.„ .

Leasing
Compaus,

Closing Prices
this day.

BusitieFs
this day.

Loudon &
N. West.

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D 0........ .
D 0........
L. kN• W.
Caledon..

GL.Nrthn.
Gt. Westn
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Berw.
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Do
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IS. Eastern
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'Norfolk

L.& N. W.
& Midld.
Stckton
Darlingt.

E. Count,
Do
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&Lu&Yk
Do

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JOINT-STOP

Australasia
British N. American
Chrtd. Bnk. of India,
Australia, & China
Colonial
Commercial of Loud
English Scottish and
Australian _

Lond. Chart. Bk. o
Australia
London and County
London Joint Stock
Lond. 8:, Westminster
London Bank of Aus-,
tralia and India
; National of Ireland..
Oriental Bank of
Corporation
Do. New _ _

1')I evincial of Ireland
Do. New
Royal Australn. Bkg
St Gold Imp Co
South Australia
Union of Australia
Do. New
Union of London
Union of Madrid—

MISCEL:

Aubin Coal and Iron
Australian Agricult.
Australsn.Pcific.Mail
Australn. Royal Mail
Brit. American Land
Brit. & Coln. Smeltg.
and Reduction Co
Canada Company
Crystal Palace
Crystal Pal. of France
Eastern Steam
Electric Tel. of Irel
Gen. Steam Navigat
General Screw Steam
Irish Beetroot Sugar
Magdalena St. Navig.
Nat. Pt. Steam Fuel
Netherlands Land
N. B. Australasian
Nrth.ofEuropeSteam
Peel Rr. Ld. & Minrl.
Peninsular & Oriental
Do. do.
Portland Iron Co
Royal Mail Steam....
Scot. Austral. Invest.
Do. New Scrip
South Austral. Land
Submarine Telegraph
Van Diemen's Laud

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2i i

35 -:37

5 25
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15 - 16

PRESERVATION, OF LIFE FROM SHIPWRECK.

Yesterday a meeting of the general committee of the
Royal National Institution for the Preservation of Life
from Shipwreck was held at the offices, John-street,
Adelphi ; Captain Lambert Perrott in the chair. We
also observed present—Captain Davies, R.N. ;
Captaintai
W. H. Hall, R.N. ; Mr. Edward Hurry, p
M'Hardy, R.N. ; Captain Ommanney, R.N. ;
Major
Palmer, Captain Washington, R.N. ; Captain Ward,
R.N., inspector of life-boats to the institution.
Mr. LEWIS, the secretary, having read the minutes of
the previous meeting, the following rewards were or-
dered to be granted
The sum of 4/. 10s. to several men for their praise-
worthy services to the crew
of the schooner Nava-
rino, of Guernsey, which was wrecked a short time
ago off the Isle of Wight. The
ceeded men havining, with
Dennett 's rocket apparatus, suc-
ing a communication with the stranded vessel, her
crew were, by means of a hawser, hauled on shore. On
account of the tremendous sea that was running at the
time over the rocks on which the men were standing,
their lives were placed in great peril, and it seemed that
had it not been for prompt and persevering exertions
every soul on board the vessel must have perished, as it
was impossible for an ordinary boat to live in such a sea,
the ship's boat having been previously dashed to pieces.
It appeared that this institution had granted rewards
from tune to time for saving the lives of about 130 ship-
wrecked persons with the useful apparatus of the late
Mr. Dennett.
on Mr. Peake's design, were ordered
New life-boats,.
to be built, and to be stationed at Dungeness, Kent,
Newcastle, Dundrum bay, and Crandfield point, on the
coast of Down.
The life boat on the same plan, belonging to the insti-
tution at Cullercoats, Northumberland, was reported to
have saved, durinor g the lte tempestuous weather,
a number of po fishermaen, who whilst engaged
in their hazardous occupation, were overtaken son
after sunrise by a heavy gale from the N.N.E.
Many of them succeeded in reaching the shore before
the sea became so fearfully high, which it afterwards
did, so as to prevent them entering the haven.
The life boat, having been sent to their assistance, suc-
ceeded in bringing ten boats over the bar, some of which
would with their crews inevitably have been lost hadnot
the life boat gone off to their rescue, the wind and sea
having risen to such a height as to leave no place of
safety for them to run to.
A communication was read from the Lincolnshire Life-
boat Association, requesting the institution to accept
501., in grateful acknowledgment of the original gift, in
1825, of their first life boat by the institution. The
boat, whicpherissotantsi.oned at Skegness, was said to be in an
efficient state, and to have saved about 100 lives of ship-
wrecked The proceedings then closed.

with what had fallen from the Bishop of Oxford. He
did not think that this plan would last many years, but
it would become the increasing duty of the Minister for
India to promote the reforms too long demanded for
that country.
Earl GRANVILLE replied. He defended the nomi-
nation of directors, and said that with regard to the
constituency it would be difficult to suggest any plan
which would work more advantageously than the pre-
sent. He concurred with the right reverend prelate
(the Bishop of Oxford) as to the necessity for additional
facilities for establishing spiritual supervision in India ;
but it was impossible for him to give any further pledge
upon such such a subject than had been already given
by his right honourable friend the President of the
Board of Control. With regard to what had fallen from
the noble lord who spoke last, he would only say that
the bill would strengthen the East India Company ; but
if they should Lot be able to go on, it provided the
means of establishing a more simple form of government.
He entirely denied, therefore, that the bill was merely a
provisional measure.
The bill was then read the second time.
The Thames Embankment Bill was read the second

consequence of the representations made to them by the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, that they were accepting an
equivalent, It was not unreasonable to say that it was
their duty, before accepting those new stocks, to calculate,
and see whether they would by accepting them in reality
obtain an equivalent for the stock which they relinquished;
but that they ought not on mere representation to have
accepted in lien of 1001. what was now only worth 931., 911.,
or 901. If, however, the result of the operation had been as
he had described it, he considered the present proposal was
not one which the house ought to be called upon to sanc-
tion; for how did the matter really stand? It was pro-
posed to pay off 10,000,000/. South Sea Stock and other
stocks, and to convert the holders of Three per Cent. Stock
(unless it was agreed to convert 90,000,0001. into Three
per Cent. Reduced Consols) into any of those three stocks.
That act was passed, and the proposal was made, and the
result appeared to be, that instead of the 100,000,0001. of
which the act authorised the conversion—and he could not
but think that the Government had anticipated the con-
version—the whole amount converted was only 2,000,0001.,
or 3,000,0001. In his opinion, if the bill merely enabled
the Government to propose this to holders of South Sea
Stock, who were not supposed to have had any opportunity
of converting their property into any of these new stocks,
he objected to it, on the ground that the former bill had
proved inefficacious, and he did not think that the proposal
would be successful in the present state of the money-
market. No man would for a moment think of accepting any
iot
non
ge of
accept
outhesettothree
s proposaltbo
public
w hiucuh alternatives.would
u lln h
inducement,
enits aiopinion,l it
unpotonw tehdewloa us hansedoedlrdii
ous loss, and some persons might be induced to accept those
proposals on account of the representations of the Govern-
ment. When hon. members who sat on the same side of
the house as himself had ventured to complain of the want
of success of the measure which had already passed, it had
been answered that it owed its want of success to public
events which had taken place ; to the state of the weather,
and other circumstances which could not have been antici-
pated ; but he begged leave to call the attention of the
house to the fact, that with regard to the expediency or
justice of the conversion of property into any one of these
new stocks, the fall in the funds had no effect upon the
question whatever. He could not approve any act of hold-
ing out to the public an idea that by accepting any one of
those new stocks they were accepting a fair equivalent,
when he did not believe that such was actually the case.
The proposal held out to the public, he would not
say by false expectations, certainly might induce the
public to believe that this stock was worth 5 or 6 per cent.
more than it really was. The effect of the previous mea-
sure had been to call into existence three new stocks of
small amount, which would disturb the money market for
the next 40 years. The only remedy which he saw for the
evil was to add to the amount of the stock, and make it a
real equivalent. The object which the Chancellor of the
Exchequer had had in view was one of great magnitude,
and if it could have been CiaTied. out would. have been highly
oadtvaasnkttabgaer
he
bdiiidt tnhoatttnbignhkt heoouln.dgbenetlpreefmaonrmhel attempted
Vaal
man. The right hon. gentleman had, on more than one
occasion, appealed to former measuresoffiinnanlcBe447mbustet ministers,
and particularly to a measure proposed
notbeg guenda l toog
opuosi.n t
lonu tf to
uhsoeus ste hbteva
at
ltuhe twoeof
thec
na se ews
swtheerke
proposed to be created was accurately known, while in the
present instance that was not the case. He could only say
that the only way to remedy the evil which had been done
was to make the new stock a real equivalent. He felt
himself bound, entertaining the feelings he did, to take the
sense of the house on the subject. He thought it would be
'far better, for the right hon. gentleman frankly to acknow-
ledge that the scheme he had framed had been based on a.
misapprehension, and to seek the aid of the house, which
he was sure would be readily afforded, to enable him to
charge the sum which under the arrangements already
made would have to be paid upon the consolidated fund,
and thus avoid embarrassing the stock market with all
these petty stocks.
The CHANCELLORaatntedrl
of
fuof r
n opinion,theelearned
gentleman's E XtCh that
Et
wQa sUvniEoe Rw
reasons said
bwt hi
hnaygt
even
more
tb wereun them e
rhoo
matter
the house should not go into committee on the question.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY objected to the bill.
Mr. J. B. SMITH considered that the South Sea Com-
pany having assented to the right hon. gentleman's first
proposition to accept a money payment, it was a very bad
precedent in the Government to depart from that first pro-
position and to proceed to the second. The first proposi-
tion, having been deliberately made and deliberately ac-
cepted, should have been adhered to.
Mr. WILKINSON suppoffed the bill, simply on the
ground that the Chancellor of the Exchequer must be en-
abled to meet the engagements he had been authorised to
contract.
The house then went into committee on the bill.
The first clause, which provides that the South Sea Com-
pany may commute, according to the provisions of the
16th Vic., c. 23, or for 31. ss. per cent. annuities, 1844,
annuity on their stock belonging to proprietors disabled
from voting in general courts, was agreed to, after some
brief explanations by the Chancellor of the Exchequer.
On the second clause, which enacts that the South Sea
Company, if authorised to undertake private trusts, may
commute for the purpose of forming a guarantee fund,
Mr. J. B. Smith, Sir F. Kelly, Mr. Spooner, and Mr.
Malins stated sundry objections, which were answered by
the Chancellor of the Exchequer, after which the clause
was agreed to without a division.
Upon clause 3, which provides that the Treasury shall
appoint times within which the assent of the company to
commute shall be signified, and shall fix the terms of the
commutation into 31. ss. per Cent. Annuities,
Mr. J. B. SMITH said he thought the Chancellor of the
Exchequer would place himself in a very disadvantageous
Weeciteimliseffr, tliee
lreasse werury oeffepassered ad ;eofniormiuf,tuottnthea2ns;thociief
parties had 11 days to consider whether they should ac-
cept it, operations might take place in the money market
which would embarrass the right hon. gentleman his
arrangements.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER Was quite
ready to admit that he was placed in a disadvantageous
position with regard to some of his arrangements, but he
regretted that the public were also subjected to the same
disadvantage. He thought, however, that detailed discus-
sion upon matters of this kind, the only object which
seemed to be to exaggerate the difficulties and disadvantages
which might arise, were likely to be attended with very
mischievous consequences. It was quite impossible, in the
present state of uncertainty, that he could enter into any
details as to the mode of proceeding it might be most pru-
dent to adopt in making arrangements under this measure.
Mr. HENLEY thought this bill was very obscurely drawn,
and regretted that the Chancellor of the Exchequer had not
condescended to inform the committee what was the amount
of money to which the clause now under consideration
would apply. In his opinion the measure proposed to the
house would tend very greatly to destroy the public credit.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER complained
that the right hon. gentleman, who had just sat down
stated that he had not condescended to inform the house
of the amount proposed to be commuted. He had already
informed the house that the amount would probably ex-
ceed 2,000,0001.
Sir F. KELLY thought that the right hon. gentleman
would be placed in a very difficult position by the passing
of this measure. If on the Ist of November he should be
called upon to fix the price, and the Three-and-a-Quarter
per Cents. were at par, the Government must in any case
be losers. Suppose the right hon. gentleman fixed the
price at 99/.• then, if the stock rose, persons would accept
the new stock, and if it fell they would accept the 100/.,
so that in either case there would be a loss of the public
money.
Mr. SPOONER protested against the proposal, and was
of opinion that any difficulty which existed the Chancellor
of the Exchequer had brought upon himself.
The clause was then agreed, as were all the remainding
clauses.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER brought up
a new clause, to provide for the payment of interest on
Exchequer-bonds beyond the time up to which interest
was guaranteed. The Controller of the Exchequer had en-
tertained some doubt as to whether the existing law made
any such provision ; and, although that doubt was not
shared by the law officers of the Crown, still it had been
thought safer to introduce the present clause.
The clause was agreed to and added to the bill; and, the
house having resumed the bill was reported.
SUPPLY.
On the motion for going into Committee of Supply.
Mr. OLIVEIRA stated that he felt unwilling, at that
late period of the session, to bring forward the motion
which stood on the paper in his name, to call the attention
of the house to the state of the metropolitan bridges, and,
if any member of the Government would promise him a
committee of inquiry into the subject early next session,
he would not press his motion.
Sir W. MOLESWORTH saw no objection to the ap-
pointment of a committee.
The motion was then withdrawn.
Mr. MAGUIRE was anxious to call the attention of the
Government to the state of the postal arrangements in the
neighbourhood of Dungarvan. Any application to the
Postmaster-General was quite useless, and the only way to
effect any reform he knew was to bring the matter before
lt
ab
ne
d were house. p
oTs
ihtei
vpe postageworse
a ata
ertrrha.aent
tgThietn
imh
eeee np tr
es
si el: in
till dayese utthha no f theylre
;
ataken r
Ili nm
et
nhte tlrvanouslidt
do
lettewarers2wo aye
actuallyc ago
great benefit to the country by issuing
peoronvveinmeeetnit, onnot thbee purenspein.otfistyabstleemt,e orders for an im-
anthdeitrewvoeunlude, 11
country. ofe wasthe
Mr. WILSON said that if the hon. gentleman or his
constituents would make a representation of their grie-
vances to the Treasury, be would undertake that every
inquiry should be made into it.
WAR IN CHINA.
Mr. HORSFALL said that on the 13th of last month a
communication was made to the Earl of Clarendon, the
Secretary for Foreign Affairs, expressing the apprehension
of the members of the East India and China Association at
Liverpool that sufficient protection was not afforded to the
British residents in China in the present peculiar circum-
stances of that country, Lord Clarendon stated, in reply,
that a copy of that communication had been forwarded to
the Lord Commissioners of the Admiralty. As the latest
news from China fully bore out the justice of the appre-
hensions of the association with regard to the insufficiency
of the British force in the Chinese waters—it having been
found necessary, it appeared, to apply to the Unitede should
Consul and to the French Consul for protection,--.ls, .rin
be glad if the First Lord of the Admiralty force
him whether the Government had sent any doing so, or
to that quarter, or whether they contemplasou
f r it ?
neceasity 0 heel
were of opinion that there was no
hon. gentleman
Sir 3. GRAHAM was sorry the
f sitting the ques-
given him no notice of his intentiooniuog p
II laira that the ac-
tion ; but he had no diffiulty
iii twere most satisfactory
counts last received from
Chin'aetions which had passed
with reference to the commune' .
b insurcrents at Nankin and
between Sir G. Bonham and tof
Shang
ghai • and he had no
the town and neighbourhood
whatever might' be the internal
reason to apprehend that'i e
a h believed it was very serious—
disorder in China— i
4bange in the relations of that country
there would be any
; obstruction to commerce, whatever
to foreigners,
or any
f the struegle
i(Hear, hear.) With
I
might be the result o e • e
British force n the Chinese seas
reference to t i
a
necessity the pleasure of stating that, anticipating the
he ha
of a larger force in that quarter, in present
circumstances he had sent oat orders to Admiral
Fellow to proceed to the Chinese seas. Admiral Pellew
bed anticipated that order. andhad taken with him from
the Indian to the Chinese station an additional steamer
of war, and he (Bir J. Graham) believed that the force was
now quite adequate to the necessities of the case. (Hear.)
The house then went into committee of supply.
The following votes were agreed to without objection,
viz.:—
4,0001. for the extension and completion of the fire
mains at Windsor Castle ; 20,0001. for the completion of
the south 'wing of Buckingham Palace ; and 32,641/. for
the formation of a park at Battersea.
On the vote of 5,5001. for the completion of a bridge
over the Thames at Chelsea.
Mr. HENLEY repeated the protest he had made on a
former occasion against the imposition of a toll on the,
bridge.
Sir W. MOLESWORTH said, that the toll would out,

time.
The Belfast Municipal Boundaries Bill passed through
committee.
The Brecon Collegiate Church Bill was reported with
amendments.
The Entry of Seamen Bill was read the third time
and passed.
The Crime and Outrage Bill was read a second time,
and their lordships adjourned at a quarter to twelve.

HOUSE OF CONENIONS—(YESTERDAY.)
PILOTAGE BILL.
The house then went into committee upon this bill.
On clause 10,
Mr. HORSFALL moved, after the words " mate '
in lines 32, 35, and 39, to insert " of any coasting ship
or vessel." Ile objected to the principle of centralisa-
tion established by the clause, and said the effect of the
amendment would be to limit the granting of licenses
by the Board of Trade exempting masters and mates
from taking pilots to coasting vessels and steamers.
The banks and sands of the Mersey and other ports
were constantly shifting, and it was impossible that a
master or mate who had been absent on a voyage for
several months could properly or safely discharge the
duties of a pilot. The local authorities at Liverpool
were entirely opposed to the clause.
Mr. CARDWELL said the clause was intended to
have a general and a local effect. Some thought it went
too far, others that it did not go far enough, and be-
tween the two he thought it would be better to adopt it
as it now stood.
Captain SCOBELL opposed the clause, and instanced
the danger of giving indiscriminately to masters and
mates a license to pilot their own vessels.
Mr. CAIRNS supported the clause.
Mr. LIDDELL considered that the tendency of the
clause would be to impair the pilot service of the country.
Mr. HENLEY should not oppose the clause, but
thought it invested a rather dangerous power in the
Board of Trade.
The amendment was then withdrawn.
Captain SCOBELL moved to add at the end of the
clause, "Provided always that such master or mate so
certified shall not be a foreigner.
Mr. CARDWELL opposed the amendment.
The amendment was withdrawn, and the clause was
agreed to.
The remaining and several new clauses were agreed
to, the house resumed, and the bill was ordered to be
reported this evening, in order that it might be read a
third time on Monday.
CUSTOMS ACTS CONSOLIDATION BILL.
This bill went through committee, and was ordered to
be reported this evening.
BETTING-HOUSES BILL.
The report upon the amendments to this bill was con-
sidered and agreed to, and the bill was ordered to be
read a third time on Monday.
The hcuse adjourned at 4 o'clock.
The house resumed at 6 o'clock.
AN ATTEMPTED " COUNT."
When the Speaker took the chair at 6 o'clock, the num-
ber of members present was vary small, but greatly to the
surprise of every one.
Mr. W. F. HUME moved that the house he counted.
An HON. MEMBER, on the Ministerial side, instantly
started from his seat, and hurried swiftly from the house.
In a few seconds the alarm had evidently been given in all
the precincts of the Palace of Westminster ; and before
the sandglass showed that the two minutes' grace had ex-
pired, a long troop of hon. gentlemen, headed by Mr.
Bright, appeared at the door, so that when the Speaker at
last began to count, there were probably not less than a
hundred members present. The defeat of this attempt to
terminate the evening's sitting was greeted with loud cheers.
MECHANICS' INSTITUTES (IRELAND),
Mr. F. SCULLY begged to ask the Chief Secretary for
Ireland if it be the fact that the provincial mechanics'
institutes in Ireland had been refused the grant made to
them by Parliament for their use for provincial lecturers,
unless they would take the lecturers named by the Royal
Dublin Society, though they were aware the professors
hitherto named by the mechanics' institutes had been
found highly popular and useful.
Sir J. YOUNG said the grant (500/.) had been made,
not to the provincial mechanics' institutes, but to the
Dublin Society for the purpose of enabling its own lec-
turers to give lectures in the provinces, and of thus in-
creasing their salaries to an adequate amount. It would
be impossible to suppose that the gentlemen appointed by
the Dublin Society were not perfectly efficient.
NEW ZEALAND.
Mr. ADDERLEY begged to ask the Under Secretary of
State for the Colonies whether, by any letters patent, or
by instructions of any kind, her Majesty has delegated to
the Governor of New Zealand such power respecting the
regulation of the sale and disposal of waste lands as could
be taken to have legally authorised his late proclamation
of the 9th day of March, 1853, whereby the scale of land
prices guaranteed. by the 14th and 15th Viet., c. 86, is set
aside, and the powers given by the 15th and 16th Vict.,
c. 72, to the new legislature were anticipated by the Go-
vernor alone, and an unlimited extent of territory was set
up to public auction at ss. per acre.
Mr. PEEL said that no proclamation of Sir G. Grey on
the subject had yet reached the Colonial-office. It appeared
that in the constitutional act of last year a provision had
been introduced conferring on the new General Assembly of
New Zealand the power of regulating the sale of land ;
but until the General Assembly should make provisions
for that purpose the crown, or the governor as authorised
by the crown was to regulate the matter. The govern-
ment in this country had accordingly sent out to Sir G.
Grey instructions to issue such regulations as might be re-
quired. Ho (Mr. Peel) presumed, therefore, that the pro-
clamation had been issued in consequence of those instruc-
tions.

Lord MONTEAGLE commented upon the rushing
into legislation without obtaining the opinion of the
committee appointed to consider the subject. He thought
such a course contrary to parliamentary usage, and to
the due conduct of the measure before them. Observing
that the authority of the house would be lost if it re-
garded the lateness of the session as a reason for not
dealing with measures brought before it, he proceeded
to some observations on the bill itself. He objected to
the complicated system of government which was pro-
posed, which amounted to a treble government, and he
said that where Indian knowledge was most wanted was
at the Board of Control. He expressed gratification at
the recognition of the principle in regard to the admis-
sion of natives to the service, but he did not think that
enough had been done, though abundance of fine words
had been used on the subject towards those whose just
ambition so much had been done to excite. At consi-
derable length he entered into strictures upon various
features of the system of administratibn pursued in re-
gard to India. •
The Duke of ARGYLL said that the Government
had pursued the course which they deemed right,
although the surface sense of the country bad been in
favour of delay, and a variety of heterogeneous opposi-
tion was certain to be offered to legislation. In defend-
ing Sir Charles Wood from the charge of general eulogy
of the East India Company, he adverted to the enormous
exaggerations which had been indulged in by the oppo-
nents of the bill, statements which it had been necessary
to meet by showing that the case had been by no means
what it had been represented to be. In reply to Lord
Ellenborough, his grace said that he was not ashamed of
the title of a bit-by-bit reformer. Our empire had been
acquired bit by bit, and it would have been the height
of rashness to have swept the old system away, and to
have sought to erect a new constitution. He quite un-
derstood that the attack was directed against the system
of double government, but all speakers had admitted that
a Minister must act with the advice of a Council. To
go further meant that a Minister must be individually
responsible for Indian government, and to this extent it
had not been dared to venture. A time might come
when the home Government should take to itself the
sole direction of Indian affairs, but he could not think
that this was the time for such a change. In regard to
the proposed government in the name of the Crown, he
said that the natives would expect that, with such a
change, should come such changes in condition and
taxation as they had been accustomed to witness when
an alteration in the form of a native government took
place ; and he contended that we were in no position
to guarantee such changes to the people of India.
It had been held out in 1833, that in proportion as
the commercial character was taken from the com-
pany they would devote themselves more to the
government of India, and that a different class
would be introduced into the direction ; and these
anticipations had been to a considerable extent realised.
He bad been disappointed with the speech of Lord El-
lenborough, a great portion of which had been directed
against the East India Company, a course which he
could not under the circumstances think polite. Defend-
ing the course the bill proposed in regard to the nomina-
tion of directors, as calculated to raise the character of
the board, he professed his total inability to understand
the nature of the slow poison which Lord Ellenborough
intimated was to be diffused throughout India by the
course the Government was taking ; or, if his lordship
entertained that belief, how he could assent to the second
reading of the bill.
Lord ASHBURTON contended that the existence of
the Court of Directors was necessary to secure the rights
and liberties of the people of India, and that that was
called a single government would either degenerate into
an absolute colonial government, with the people com-
mitted to its charge in the position of animals, or would
become a double government, divested of the means of
effecting the advantageous results which it was designed
to produce. He also thought there might be some feel-
ing bespoken in favour of that body of merchant ventu-
rers who had secured so much for us, organised such a
service, sown the seeds of liberty in India, and now
handed over an empire in such perfect order.
The Bishop of OXFORD said that this was not only
a political subject, but one which, had deep nioral and
religious bearings. As the only member of the episcopal
bench who had been placed on the Indian Committee, ho
would venture to mention one or two points in which he
thought the bill ought to be varied before it became law.
India had been placed in our hand by llrovidence for a
great purpose, and if we swerved from that the command
might be taken from us. He did not mean to contend
that it was the duty of a Government to interfere directly
with the religion of those entrusted to us, but he could
not admit that our duty was, as had been said, neu-
trality. We were bound to put before the people
Christianity at avery advantage. If this had been in-
tended as a final measure, he should have complained
of the absence of any increased provision for keeping up
Christianity among our own servants. There was need
of additional chaplains will of a new see in India. His
lordship also urged that it was proposed, while giving
up patronage, to narrow the examinations to Haiiey-
bnry, and to create there one of those close colleges
which had been shoWn, in our universities, to work so
ill. He showed that the position in which the Halley-
bury student would find himself, with a certain income
for the future, would tend to destroy restraint, and to
teach the youths to forestall that income, while irregu-
larity could only be punished by the ruinous penalty of
expulsion. In order, therefore, to secure the best kind
of servants for India, he would admit other candidates
to the Haileybury examination, in addition to the mem-
bers of the college, on condition of such candidates show-
ing that they had been for a certain time, say two
years, trained elsewhere. He remarked upon the dis-
advantage of throwing the universities out of this com-
petition for the Indian service. It would be a great
boon to the universities to induce the young men there
to take an interest in India, the civil service of which
was now a sealed book to them ; nor could anything be
more useful to India, or tend to give a higher, tone to
the service. He would beg the Government to re
• n •ng
consider this part of the subject, rather than him
bestowed eon us,
give notice of an amendment, and he ended with a elo-
quents
tlnrdsiaferetnhcee theptaotento
trifutmGphed had of peacefully
imparting
namely, a true faith in His word, and a true belief in
E considered that Ministers
to
nhietir
theLreervltion ofde\avllAß NHcis Son.
iiiFv
measure, pre-
]:
na
nb
ge e
that
ajustifiedw
ei
rne
satisondeudc i
an
se•
sEeihi
eaurba treorn
g;
hbut
he could not help agreeing with Lord
as
theoft
ethe Ea
objections herd o
had nrged to the bill.
toG many
creditDirectorsiving for what it
had done, he thought that itmight be made much
more effective, and that it would not, under the
proposed arrangement, add vigour to the councils of
Government. To several other portions of the bill his
he
lordship was understood to say that did not see any
particular grounds of objection ; but he cordially agreed

THE HOLYHEAD MAILS.
Mr. VA.NCE wished to call the attention of the Secre-
tary of the Treasury to the irregular arrival of the mail
trains at Holyhead ; and to ask if any measures were being
taken by the Post-office authorities to ensure punctuality
in the transmission of the Irish mails to their destination.
Mr. WILSON said that steps had been taken to ensure
uniformity in the arrival of the night mail, bat that the
day mail was not under the control of the postmaster.
The contract with the railway company was merely to con-
vey certain mail-bags.
Mr. F. SCULLY appealed to the President of the Board
of Trade to take some steps for making the mail more

regular.
Mr. CARDWELL said the law gave him no power to
do so. No complaints had ever been made to him on the

subject.
COLONIAL AND FOREIGN POSTAGE.
Mr. GIBSON wished to ask whether, with reference to
the proposal made to the colonies for future postal arrange-
ments, any reply had been received from any of the colo-
nies,.and whether those colonies which had replied had as-
sented to the terms suggested by her Majesty's Govern-
ment? He also wished to ask whether, on further consi-
deration, the Chancellor of the Exchequer thought there
would be any obstacle to the appointment of a committee
to inquire into the general question of foreign and colonial
postage in the early part of next session?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied,
that the timo which had elapsed since the Government had
sent out the proposal was too short to admit of their re-
ceiving replies from the most important colonies. The re-
plies, in fact, were only beginning to come iu. What
replies had been received already were entirely favourable
to the plan. The basis of that proposal was, that there
should be a postage between Great Britain and the colonies
which was low which was uniform, and which should in-
clude not only the ocean charge, but the charge from door
to door, from the place from which the letter was sent to
the place to which it was addressed. He had never ex-
pressed any disinclination to Parliamentary inquiry into
the subject on principle; but he had an apprehension,
which he thought well-founded, that if the house institu-
ted an inquiry of the kind this session, while the proposal
was on its way to the colonies, such inquiry would mate-
rially interfere with the success of the proposal, and pre-
vent the Government from laying the groundwork of
favourable further proceedings. It seemed unadvisable to
give a pledge on the subject at present ; but the, subject of
ocean postage was a fit one for Parliamentary inquiry' and
he should 1311) glad to see that inquiry instituted next session.
4 CANADA.

Mr. BRIGHT, referring to a question which he had put
few nights ago with reference to an address from the
Legislature of Canada, suggesting that the Legislative
Council should no longer be nominee, but elective, wished
to know whether that address had been received by her
Majesty's Government, and, if so, whether the noble lord
the member for London had any objection to lay it on the
table ? Though nothing could be done this year, yeti the
information could be considered between this and the next

session.
Lord J. RUSSELL could only say that information had
just been received, which the Secretary of State had net
yet had time to examine, but which he should hope would
in a few days be laid on the table.
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
Lord J. RUSSELL gave notice, that on Monday he
should move that on Wdnesdays Government orders of
the day should take precedence till three o'clock.
SOUTH SEA AND OTHER ANNUITIES BILL.
On the motion that the Speaker do leave the chair on
the house going into committee on this bill.
Sir F. KELLY called on the Government to admit or
refute a statement he had made on a former occasion, that
the three new stocks wore of the saleable value of 931..
911., and 901. respectively, and no more. The result of
this public transaction was, that the holders of those three
stocks were losers on the conversion to which they were
subjected of about 7,9, and 10 per cent. of thesiurltocapital,
f the
to say nothing of the loss of interest. The e
been, trhat at this
operation, so far as it had gone,
moment those persons who had ahcacelpted th_eu_e_wl.stoliclec
were losers of a sum amounting to nearly `2.oti ouu
ventured to make this statement, for he did it on what he
highest authority—the authority
believed to be the
of one person connvecealhcloosweloyulwditchomthootomotnheorqmacit
If such wthe result,
whether that house ougl, tsoimeinlaarbltoo thhoeseGwovheironhinheaudt
otno.
repeat to others proposals
tailed a serious loss upon those persons who had accepted
them. It might be said that those unfortunate persons
were compelled to acceeltwhel.pirnopmoosanlosyr
odrthaaotootphteiynghaadn
the option of beingun i
t pin these new stocks. He was quite
equivalent am;
that they had no very great claim to the
willing to !Am'
consideration house house, and that it was a matter little
affecting that that those persons had believed, in