The Sun.
London, England, 1854-12-22 00:00:00

wished to know whether an English officer on half-pay
who entered this foreign legion would forfeit it?
Lord J. RUSSELL observed that all these details would
come under the consideration of Government after the bill
pp,seed. They had come to Parliament for their sanction
to the general principle before they decided on anything.
The right hon. member for Oxfordshire had asked a very
important question, and correctly stated the effect of the
existing laws. He (Lord J. Russell) considered that the
wives and children of these men would be in the position
of unsettled paupers, and entitled to relief out of the poor
rates. As to the emigration question, suppose a man came
over with a large family, and a married son among them;
if that son enlisted no colony would object to receive
the remainder of the family. No money, however, could
be applied to this purpose without the consent of Parlia-
ment, and they would therefore have ample opportunity
of considering the question.
Sir J. PAKINGTON said that the noble lord had given
a very different explanation from that of the Secretary of
War. He considered that the house had a right to com-
plain of the conduct of ,he Government.
Lord NAAS hoped gear an assurance from the Go-
vernment that the apparently ill-considered scheme of
emigration connected with the measure would be given the
up.
Lord J. RUSSELL said the Government had no
smallest intention to give foreigners any prefePltco .
and
Grey the noble lord was probably aware that Lord had
taken great pains to facilitate the settlement of soldiers in
the colonies.
Mr. NEWDEGATE thought that after the Government
had confessed their inability to say whence the men were
to be obtained, they had no eight to complain of opposition.
Mr. WARNER hoped the noble lord would give an as-
surance that the barracks in the manufacturing districts
were not to be given to these foreign troops, and that no
barracks would be taken from British troops for their ac-
commodation.
Lord J. RUSSELL said it would be difficult to give all
the assurances that were asked for. One hon. gentleman
said, " Let the men by no means be in any of the arsenals
of the country ; and another hon. gentleman said, " Let
them not be in any of the barracks in the manufacturing
districts ; " while a third hon. gentleman said, " For
God's sake don't let them come into the rural districts."
(Laughter.) He should like to know where they were to
be trained for the purposes of the war. (Hear, hear.) He
believed that, although there might be a temporary preju-
dice raised, as there was, perhaps, in 1804, yet when these
soldiers came to be trained they would be regarded, with
respect, and many persons would be extremely sorry that
they had indulged in such illiberal prejudice.
Mr. WHITESIDE said in the bill of 1804 it was provided
that the foreign troops should not go more than five miles
from the coast. If such troops were to be introduced into
Ireland he would submit that they should be stationed in
the nearest poor-house which had no paupers.
Mr. BANKES wished to know what was to ho done
about billeting.
Mr. S. HERBERT said he must request hon. gentlemen
to be reasonable.
Mr. BANKES—We wish to make a bill ; this is not
one. (Hoar, hear.)
Mr. S. HERBERT said there were certain details which
the executive only:could manage. It was impossible to put
everything in an act of Parliament. The question of the
barracks, for example, must be left to the discretion of the
executive. (" No, no," from the Opposition.) No fetters
were imposed on it with regard to the billeting of other
troops. (Hear.) As to the provision that the German
legion was not to be quartered more than five miles from
the coast, he would observe that it was afterwards de-
parted from. (Hear.) It must be the disposition of the
Government to place these new foreign troops where least
opposition was likely to be excited by their presence.
Colonel DUNNE said no class of society disliked this
bill more than military men. He hoped the right hon.
gentleman would inform the profession at large how they
were to be placed relatively to these foreign troops—whe-
ther the officers were to have the same rank as British
officers, and whether the latter were in any case to be com-
manded by them.
Mr. BENTINCK intimated that it was his intention to
divide against the clause.
Mr. BANKES said it was no unimportant question to
their fellow-subjects whether they were to have these
foreign troops billeted upon them against their will or
not. It was no insignificant matter of detail, but one of
principle.
Mr. GROGAN thought the clause ought to be post-
poned.
Mr. S. HERBERT said the Government had in this
matter strictly followed the precedent of the last bill, in.
which there was no restriction of the kind now suggested.
It was said that the German legion was peculiarly consti-
tuted ; but if hon. gentlemen referred to the debates of
1801, they would find them constantly described as merce-
naries, and the scum of the earth. (Hear.)
Mr. WHITESIDE complained that the question with
regard to billeting had not been answered.
Mr. S. HERBERT said, of course the foreign troops
were not to be billeted. There were many ways of
treating men who were to be here only for a few weeks,
and not to form part of the permanent garrison of the
country.

Mr. WHITESIDE said, there was a distinct provision
in the act of 1794, that the foreign troops then about to
be raised should not be permitted to advance more
than five miles into the interior of England. If the house
knew who and what the troops were the Government
were likely to raise under tbis bill, there might not be the
same constitutional jealousy of these troops. Perhaps the
Government would quarter those who might be sent to
Ireland in the poorhouses nearest the coast, for there were
no paupers there.
Lord J. 11.13%.%1LLL said he understood the rig ht hon
gentleman, the member for Bucks, some time ago to tate.
that he thought it would be to Vae convenience
s
of public
business that the house should go into eoraraitt. that
evening, and that the third reading should be taken on
the following day. If the bill was to be rejected, it was
desirable that it should be so immediately; if, on the
contrary, it was to become law it should be passed as soon
as possible. What would be the object of making delay
then he really could not conceive. As to the question
whether the men were to be respectable, or the scum of
the earth, he replied that of course it was the intention of
the Government to obtain, as far as possible, respectable
men. They could net, however, bring certificates to that
house with regard to the character of the men to be en-
listed ; that was a matter which must be left to the Go-
vernment. (Hear, hear.)
After a few words from Mr. T. CHAMBERS,
Mr. DISRAELI had never intended to say that the bill
was to pass through committee without discussion. He
was sorry that her Majesty's Government were not able to
give a satisfactory answer to the question which had been
put ; but he could not attempt to control gentlemen sitting
on that side of the house with regard to the point under
discussion.
Mr. SPOONER could never give his consent to a mea-
sure which would render his fellow subjects liable to have
foreigners billited in their houses.
Lord J. RUSSELL said it had already been stated more
than once, that the Government had not the smallest in-
tention of billeting them. (Hear.)
Mr. BANKES said the bill gave the power as it stood
then.

Lord J. RUSSELL—Let the right bon. gentleman give
notice of an amendment for the third reading.
Mr. BANKES could not give such a notice, as he did
net approve of the bill.
After a few words from Mr. SrooNER,
The amendment was negatived without a division, and
clause 1 was agreed to.
Clauses 2, 37 and 4 were then agreed to.
Upon Clause 5,
Mr. PACKE thought there ought to be some limit in
the time of the duration of this bill, so that the opinion of
the country might be taken upon it when its continuance
was to be provided for. Ile thought that it ought not to
be now passed for a longer period than until the end of the
next session of parliament ; this would bring it to about
August, 1856. He should, therefore, upon the third read-
ing, propose to add these words " That this act shall
continue in force until the end of the next session of
parliament, or until one year after a definite treaty of
peace should be agreed upon, provided that the expira-
tion of this act shall in no case affect the service of
foreigners who shall have enlisted before the act shall
expire."
Mr. M. GIBSON wished to ask a question with regard
to the second clause, which scorned very obscurely worded.
It did not seem to prevent the employment of these Ger-
man troops for any purpose in which the government
might think fit to use them.
Lord J. RUSSELL said it was the intention of his hon.
and learned fr:end the Solicitor-General to move, on the
third reading, to insert certain words, whioh he thought
wouldrneet the observations of the hon. gentleman. The
words which it would l e proposed to insert wore—" which
shall be kept and reserved solely for the purposes of drilling
and training the troops."
The remainder of the bill then passed through committee
and the house resumed.
SAVINGS BANK FUNDS.
The report of the committee hereon was brought up.
THE ARMY IN THE EAST.

Sir G. HEATHCOTE asked the Secretary at War when
the wooden houses for the troops in the Crimea mightbe
expected to arrive, and whether any progress had yet been
made to provide huts or shelter from any resources derive c 1
from the country it:elf ? The same as to winter clothing,'
when it might be expected to arrive
Mr. S. HERBERT would answer the questions in the
order they had been put. With regard to the wooden
houses, the Government caused some of them to be con-
structed immediately information had bean received from
Lord Raglan thf.t they would be required. The larger
portion of these were at sea, and as far as Government
could hazard a guess, they were now about the Bosphorus.
The Government found that they could not obtain a suffi-
cient quantity of materials to hut the whole army here.
They ha _l lost no time in sending orders by telegraph to
Lord Stratford to procure as many of the necessary ma-
terials as possible, and to forward them to Balaklava.
Lord Raglan had at the same time sent to Sinope to pur-
chase timber there. Lord Westmoreland had also re-
ceived instructions to have huts constructed in Austria,
ren*the Government had heard by the mail before lee
that an
Austrian Lloyd's steamer had left Trieste with
"ne of the huts on board. He did not know the exact
extent
if hernolafge aid which had been sent from Austria, but
by Lord Westmoreland
it from the amount of the bill sent is
apeet to the tuaoreland, it was considerable. With re-
st the camp, clothing a great portion had arrived
another portion was on its way, and a groat
tta
deal had y
he stated that the o• In the last letter from Lord Raglan
m clothing which had arrived was
in coarse of distribwnlj , and would doubtless add greatly
to the comfort of thelZen
Sir G. HEATHCOTE Ittn
the great and disproportionate asked whether, looking at
and what
loss among the officers in
the late battles, any
s had beea taken to do
away with the differences in the' f tho officers and
privates, both in reference to thei;eoaiarnd9Tary clothing and
that specially ordered for winter 0"
Mr. S. HERBERT said that the Government Crimea ?
might be
instructions to Lord Raglan, as rnazy",Zent had given
unable from want of means or of facilities of 8
obtain warm clothing, that be was at liberty ti:rport, to
clothes to the officers as well as to the men. So far as
was concerned there would of course be no differenaesettis
tweon the dress of men and officars. The new pattern in
uniforms, of which the next issue of clothing would
con-
sist, made but a slight difference between the dress of nfa.
cers and men. There would be no epaulette, and thus the
most distinguishing feature between the officer and private
would noPenger exist. While upon this subject, he might
mention that he had spoken with officers who had been at
Balaklava, and they told him that there was much misap-
prehension in the idea that our officers were cut off through
the differences of their uniforms. It should be recollected
that the duties of officers naturally led them into greater
difficulties than those of privates. In addition mounted
officers were, of course, more likely to fall under musketry.
Sir W. HEATHCOTE asked if the difference in the
undress nnifcem of officers was to continue?
Mr. S. HERBERT believed that in the new pattern
there was no undress coat.
The house then adjourned at half-past 8,