The Sun.
London, England, 1838-07-28 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

ROUSE OF COMMONS. .Itir,r 27.
The SPEAKER took the Chair a few minutes before Four.
Mr. Ptu.statv, the Deputy Usher of the Black Rod, haring advanced
to the table, requested the attendance of this House in the House of
Lords, to hear the Royal Assent given to several Bills (for which see
Lords' Report.)
On the motion of Mr. FIELDEN, the Lords' Amendments to the
Oldham Gas Bill were agreed to.
Captain ALSAGER presented a petition from the borough of Mary.
lebone, against any further grant to the College of Maynooth ; and a
petition agreed to at the meeting at Exeter Hall, in favour of the Church
in Canada.
Captain BRYANT presented two petitions from the county of Kit.
kenny, in favour of the abolition of tithes.
COMBINATION LAW.
Mr. WALLACE presented a petition from the operatives of Kelso,
relative to the provisions of the Combination Act, and moved that the
petition be printed with the votes, as it was his intention to call the no.
flee of the Home to the subject on Monday next. The Hon. Member
said that the petitioners stated that one of their number had been in'.
prisoner!, at the instance of his employer, for leaving his work, which
the petitioners allege is 9 punishment far too severe for such an offence,
and prayed that this part of the Act should be modified or repealed.
Captain DUNBAR presented petitions from several Wesleyan Con.
gregations in Somersetshire against idolatrous worship in India.
Petitions to the same &Feet were presented by Mr. Hope; Mr. Gaily
Knight, from Buckinghamshire; by Captain Polhill, from places in
Bedfordshire; by Mr. Marshall, from Carlisle, against idolatrous pageant
and Roman Catholic worship ; and by Captain Wood, from the Dissen.
ters of Great queen-street Chapel, to the same effect.
Captain ALSAGER gave notice that in the Camberwell Church
Building Amendment Act he should move a clause giving to the Bishop
the power of determining whether one-third of the sittings should be free.
BANK OF IRELAND.

On the motion that the Order of the Day for the House resolving
,self into a Committee of Supply be read,
Mr. HUME rose to bring on the motion of which he had given
notice as follows :—" That the exclusive privi leecs now enjoyed by the
Bank of Ireland are injurious to the best interests' of that country,
and it is therefore most expedient and just to place, as soon as possible,
the Banks of Ireland on a looting of equality." He wished to know why
Ireland, which so much wanted the benefit of capital, should be continued
under such a system of monopoly any longer. He considered that
they were now in a situation to throw out of view what had been the
evils of Joint-stock Banks, or of the Bank of Ireland. They were now
in a situation to call upon the Government to say why the system of
banking in Ireland should not now be put on the same footing as the banks
in Scotland. He would call for the same justice to this country,only that he
knew that the Bank of England had their monopoly for a certain
time; but in the case of the Bank of Ireland, the case was dif-
ferent ; for their charter of exclusiveness was now at an end, and
there could be no reason for continuing so injurious a monopoly.
Why was the capital of the Bank of Ireland, amounting to two mil-
lions and a half, lent to the Government at an interest of 4 per cent.?
And he wished to know whether the Right Hon. Gentleman had con.
firmed the former rate of interest, or whether since January any new
arrangement had been made ? Seeing the Right Hon. Gentleman
might have borrowed the money at 3 per cent., if he was paying 4 or 4}
per cent., it was evident that was to the great injury of the public.
He did not know any reason why the Bank of Ireland should not
be placed on the same footing as every Bank in Scotland.—(Hear.)
He (Mr. Hume) wished the Government to declare their intentions as
to the future state of banking in Ireland; and he now begged to move
his resolution.
Sir J. RAE REID, in seconding the resolution, said he hoped the
Government, if they had it in contemplation to renew the Charter of the
Bank of Ireland,would recollect the circumstances under which that Char.
ter had originally been granted. It was subsequently to the Legislature of
Ireland being independent of England; and in consequence it was consi.
tiered necessary that Ireland should, as England had, have a National Bank.
But since the Act of Union had passed, what necessity could be imagined
for two National Banks? In regard to the delay of the Joint Stock
Banks Committee Report, at the commencement of the Session,
he (Sir J. R. Reid) had been informed that ass Honourable Mem.
ber had done him the honour to propose him as a Mem.
ber of that Committee ; and now the excuse for not doing so was,
that all the evidence had been received, and that nothing further but
the report was to be done yet ; now (some months subsequent) no report
had been received.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said both the mover
and the seconder of the amendment had fallen into error in supposing
that in moving the Committee the object was to consider the evidence
and frame a report. On the contrary, Ire (the Chancellor of the Ex.
chequer) had stated that there were three distinct questions
to which evidence was to be taken : —the Establishment
of Branch Banks of England throughout England; the issues, by cer-
tain of these Joint Stock Banks of bank paper in substitution for
their own; and, thirdly, the subject of the Bank of Ireland.--(Hear.)
The proceedings in the Committee had been strictly in accordance
with the statements he then made. It had not inquired into matters
which were the subject of investigation on previous occasions, and
there was therefore no inconsistency in the course taken by the Com-
mittee, and the declaration which he had made. He should decline now
entering into an argument on thecase,because he couldehow to the House
a sufficient reason for reserving that subject for future cnnsideration.
Nothing could be more indiscreet on his part than to go into a prema-
ture discussion as to whether he agreed with or dissented from the
proposition of the Hon. Member, because it might prejudice the ques-
tion to do so before the evidence which had been taken was in the hands
of Members. But the House and the Hon. Gentleman had a right to see
that the public interests were not affected or forestalled out of doors.
The Report, which had been brought up, adverted to this subject, and
recommended that a Bill in continuation of that of last Session should
be brought in, in such a manner as to give the Housean unfettered dis-
cretion in the next Session to deal with the question as it should think
tit.—(Hear.)—This was doing all that could be required in the
present posture of affairs. Without going into the general pro.
position, he wished to say one word on a suggestion made
by the Hon. Member for Kilkenny. He not, only had thrown out a
supposition, the practicability of which he did not doubt, that ass unres.
tricted freedom of competition in banking would be advantageous to
the interests of Ireland, but he had thrown out a much larger
proposition, that if it were trot fur the privileges of the Bank
of England a free competition of the banks of issue in
this country was a matter which he contemplated as advantageous.
This was a suggestion to which he should cuter his dissent, reserving it
as a matter for future consideration.—(Hear, hear, and cheers.)
There was another matter on which he also wished to make an
observation. Undoubtedly there was on the amount of advances
made by the Bank of Ireland, an amount of interest beyond
the market rate of interest; but on the other hand the Bank of
Ireland acted differently by the public from the Bank of England,
which charged 340/. per million on the management of the public debt,
whilst the Bank of Ireland transacted this without any charge whatever.
He would not go into the question further than to assure the Honourable
Member, that if he looked minutely into this matter, which must be
done next year at any rate, he would find that so great a saving as
he anticipated would not be effected. He (the Chancellor of
the Exchequer) was as anxious as any man to save 30,000/. or 40,0001.,
but he was afraid that could not be done. He, however, thought the
arrangement that had been made such as deserved reconsideration. The
Honourable Member had observed upon the effect of Joint Stock
Banks, and had said that the enquiry that had been entered into with re-
apect to them, and the publication of the evidence, had been adopted by
Use Government in a feeling of hostility towards them. Now, in answer
to that lie begged to say, that lie had been actuated by no such
feeling.---(Hear, hear.) The Honourable Member had also said that
the publication of the evidence had left those Banks in a state of
feverish excitement. In that statement he could not agree with him,
as it was his belief that the publication of the evidence had been attended
with the best effect, es it had given to the Eanks, many of whom were
in their infancy, ttse benefit of the example and experience of the older
banks. The northern and central, and some of the other banks, were
in no way connected with this subject ; and if they were, when
he considered the pressure under which the public laboured,
and the small number of failures that had taken place, he
felt convinced that the principle of Joint Stock Banks was good, and
would prove beneficial to the country. Under these circumstances he
trusted the explanation he had given would be satisfactory, reserving to
himself the right of making any observations in the next Session that he
might think fit.

Mr. WARBURTON, after the intimation just given by the Right
I-lon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer, as also the statements made on a
former occasion, that in next Session of Parliament not only the affairs of
the Bank of Ireland, but also the principles by which the affairs
of the Bank of England were regulated, would be submitted to a
Committee, and there undergo examination and discussion, thought
it would be most advisable if his Honourable Friend would
not persevere in his motion.— ( flcar, hear, hear.) Some of those prin-
ciples by which Banking Companies were regulated, particularly with
respect to unrestricted circulation, had been the subject of discussion
with men who were best informed upon the subject ; and it being now
decided that a Committee would sit for the purpose of deciding upon
these and other points next Session, he trusted his Hon. Friend would
withdraw the motion.

CONFERENCE WITH THE LORDS.
Messengers from the Lords here appeared at the table of the House
requesting a Conference with the House of Commons, on the amend.
ments made in the Poor Relief (Ireland) Bill.
The question having been put and agreed to; Lord J. Russell, Sir
James Graham, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Lord Granville So.
merset, Sir George Grey, and others, were appointed to manage the Con.
ference on the part of the Ilouse of Commons.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL, and other Managers of the Conference, re.
turned after a quarter of an hour's absence, and reported that they had
had a Conference with the Lords, managed by the Earl of Shaftesbury.
Their Lordships did not insist upon certain of their amendments, and
insisted upon certain others, their reasons for which they had delivered
to them.

Lord J. RUSSELL proposed that the House should agree to the
amendments made by the Lords. If they were found inconvenient
hereafter a Bill could be brought in to alter them.
Mr. O'CONNELL said that one of the reasons given by the Lords for
an amendment was the most extraordinary he had ever heard, because
it was not consistent with the fact.—(" Hear, hear," and a laugh.)
The amendments were then agreed to.
BANK OF IRELAND.

The debate was then resumed.
Dlr. O'CONNELL protested against being considered as bound by, or
acquiescing in, what the Chancellor of the Exchequer had said, that the
evidence was closed with respect to the Bank of Ireland. That was not the
case, for there were even now persons in town waiting to be examined.
He would not advance any opinion on the evidence as it was not closed ;
but it appeared that on a loan of two millions, cue half was at five per
cent., and the other at four, giving an average of 4}l-, when money could
be had at $A ; so that IA had been lost for an immense number of years.
He trusted the lion. Member would withdraw his motion.
Mr. HUME having withdrawn it,

The SPEAKER put the question, that the House resolve itself into a
Committee of Supply.

DANISH CLAIMS.

Mr. WARBURTON enquired whether the Commissioners to whom
was referred the second class of Danish claims, for goods on shore, had
yet reported to the Lords of the Treasury.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER. said they had made a
preliminary report, but not a final enc.

RUSSIA AND PERSIA.
Sir S. CANNING wish to make a further enquiry on a subjectto Ivhie b
he had called the attention cf the President of the Board of Control.
The Noble Lord at the head of the Foreign Department would be
able to answer the question as satisfactorily as his colleague. It was
well known-
The SPEAKER said that the Hon. Member must confine himself t

the question he intended to put.
Sir S. CANNING said that he had already attended three different
times in that House in order to put the question, and unless he was
allowed to make a few observations in explanation, he was afraid he
should d
intimate be obliged
cig,Ares t .pportitnity. There had long been
a
between Persia and Russia, and that connection
ouil‘ine,lec to
tio losei
appeared to have taken a elo,er character of late. It had lone been
matter of supposition that, at the conclusion of the last peace between
Persia and Russia, secret articles were signed of a character—(Cries of
Question, question.") He was not to be deterred from doing that
which he considered to be his duty, unless he had the directicti of the -
Chair that he was irregular. He believed he was exercising his right
properly on the question of going into a Committee of Supply, and he
would sit clown till he had heard the opinion of the Chair.
Thc SPEAR-ER said that when an Hon. Member rose professing to
a,k a question, he expected that he would fulfil that profession, and
not enter into reasons, because if that were done, it would be extreme]
difficult to say when public business would begin. In his opinion they
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