The Sun.
London, England, 1854-03-04 00:00:00

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the Government, that after two yeas' nrOilly • ,-
having brought in a measure so benticil ~ ,r:.:7,
they will give a fair chance of carryng it •
throt igh In ':‘ll\
success. (Cheers.)
Sir G. GREY said—l rose immddatelY after ishe right,
hon. member for Droitwich to expixs my entire dissent
from that estimate which, with `l§elf-coinplisisanc.e,
he has formed of the part wile h,. : and ilx4. so on ,s A.'
grl,
whose behalf he speaks have takes un I'A present bikcnin-
~,,
stances. He claims for himself aid his pa theNighesda
patriotism ; and on what groundr? BecalisT, nigM ofthe
night, they have offered no oppostion in voting largely in-
creased estimates for carrying on A war into which I believe
we have been inevitably dragged not by the timidity and
vacillation, but by the determined ambition and encroach.-
ment of a most ambitions-powe.-. (Cheers.) And what is
the patriotism of the right hon gentleman ? It is that he
and his party are ready to place the means of carrying on
a war, which every onevadmits will be a struggle of a most
serious character, and the termination of which no one can
foresee, in the hands of a Government which he taunts as
weak, timid, irresolute, aid vascillating. (Cheers.) If
the right hon. bart. really :retains those opinions, it is his
duty to take the sense of the House of Commons, and to
use his best endeavours b place those means in the hands
of men not characterised by those grave defects which inca-
pacitate a Government for carrying, on war with effect.
(Cheers.) If he does not retain those opinions, or if he
shrinks from bringing them to a test in this house, then I
say it is anything but patriotic to get up night after night
to make insinuations, to depreciate its endeavours, to
weaken its hands, and to lesson it in the opinion of the
country. (Load cheers.) I believe that the opinions which
have been expressed by the right honourable gentleman are
not shared by the country. I believe the country does
think that the Government has acted with caution, witk
prudence, and with the serious desire of avoiding " peace.-
(Great laughter on the Opposition side was occasioned by
this mistake, but the right hon. baronet immediately cor-
rected himself)—avoiding war and maintaining peace, in
those negotiations which have been carried on ; I believe
the-country is prepared to confide in the vigour, ability,
and efficiency of the Government in conducting the war,
should we unfortunately he finally forced into it. (Cheers.)
With regard to the question immediately before the
house, I may be allowed to express my opinion that the
Government have taken a prudent, wise, and judicious
course in postponing it, and I do not concur with the
right hon. baronet in thinking—after the pledge to in-
troduce a Reform Bill, after the general expectation had
been raised that a Reform Bill would be introduced—that
it would have been for the Government to have refrained
from paying that bill before the house and country.
(Cheers.) Those, no doubt, who wish to see no change in
the representation of the people regret that a bill of this
character should be submitted to the people. I do not
share either their feelings or their objections, but this I
say, that any Government would be seriously to blame if
it pressed for the consideration of a bill of that kind while
any measures are pending in this house which Parliament
is bound to take for the vigorous and efficient prosecution
of that war on the brink of which we are standing.
(Cheers.) lam quite content to leave it in the hands of
my noble friend, and I ask no pledge that on a future day
this bill shall be forced on, irrespective of the circum-
stances in which we are then placed. I think the course
which my noble friend has taken entitles him to increased.
confidence, showing as it does that, irrespective of per-
sonal feeling, he will not prejudice the interests of the
country by prosecuting a measure when the interests of
the country might be injuriously affected by the discus-
sions likely to arise out of its consideration. (Cheers.)
With regard to the feeling of personal honour, I cannot
conceive that the personal honour of my noble friend
is in the slightest degree affected. (Hear.) ,Any
pledge given by him or by the Government cannot be
in such absolute terms as to deprive them of the power,
as members of this house, if not as Ministers of the
Crown, of considering whether, when the time comes, it
is right to submit to consideration a measure of import-
ance. The personal honour of any man is best consulted
by taking that course which, either as a minister or as a
member, he believes most conducive to the permanent in-
terests of the country: That- is the course which has been
taken by my noble friend, and, as I said before, it only en-
titles him to increased confidence.
The SPEAKER having read the motion,
Mr. DISRAELI rose and said—l wish to make some
observations to the house 'before this motion is agreed to.
I do not understand the reasons alleged by the noble lord
in favour of this motion, which I shall certainly not op-
pose. I understood the noble lard to say that the supplies
had been granted byall parties in this house with a facility
and spirit which is commendable, and therefore I con-
clude, when the noble lord made his statement in intro-
ducing the bill of projected Parliamentary reform before
the house, he had of course calculated all the circumstances
connected with supply which could affect its second read-
ing.. Although I conclude the noble lord had taken into
consideration the time necessary for granting supply, he
had not taken into consideration the time necessary for
ways and means. That appears to be one of the reasons
why the noble lord thinks it expedient to postpone the
consideration of the second reading of this bill of Parlia-
mentary reform, which was fixed for the 13th of this
month. It appears to me somewhat strange that the
noble lord should have omitted to take into consideration
the time necessary for ways and means, as well as
granting supply; though that appears to me, so far as I
could follow the noble lord, the most efficient argument
introduced to the house in favour of a change of his ope-
rations. (Hear, hear.) The noble lord, in estimating the
time which would elapse with respect to those financial
operations, could hardly have supposed that so small a
space of time would have been required for supply as
has turned out to be the case. I think the noble lord.
himself voluntarily expressed his satisfaction with the
conduct of the House of Common's, and I am sure every gen-
tleman present will agree that supply was never voted with
more alacrity. (Cheers) I know I myself attended yes-
terday morning, in order to lay one or two matters before
the consideration of the house, and I found half a million
had been voted in the time I was taking off my great coat
and walking to my usual seat on the bench. (Laughter.)
When the noble lord made up his mind to come down to
the house and propose a great project, when he estimated
the time which must elapse before the decision of the house
upon its merits could be taken, he could hardly have sup-
posed that voting of supply would have taken so short a
time as it dial. (Hear.) It, therefore, appears to be clear
that the noble lord dill not take into his calculation the
necessity of the house considering ways and means, as well
as supply. (Hear.) Ido not know whether the noble lord
will find as great facility as he has with supply. I am
rather alarmed at the intimation the noble lord gives us of
what awaits us next Monday. (A laugh.) But a second
reason given us by a noble lord is also in my mind of not
so satisfactory a nature as for the sake of the noble lord I
could have wished. The noble lord says we are still nego-
tiating with the Emperor of Russia. The noble lord was;
of course, aware of that when he introduced the bill on
the 13th of last month. (Hear.) The noble lord then, of
course, calculated the time which would necessarily or pro-
bably elapse before these negotiations could be brought to
an issue, as well as the time that would be required by the
House of Commons to vote supply and the ways and means.
I want to know why the noble lord, having these means of
forming an estimate of the time necessary, and having for
its purpose more experience than any member of the house;
why the noble lord has taken the step he did, of introducing
this measure, of fixing a day forthe second reading, when it
appears, from the arguments which are offered us to-day,
he was not justified in the course which he then took, and
is consequently obliged to postpone fora considerable period
the time when the decision of the House of Commons can
be asked on this measure, and when he very wisely de-
clines to pledge himself that even on that distant day the
decision of the House of Commons shall be demanded.
(Hear, hear.) I cannot help thinking—looking to the very
great importance of the subject—looking also to the pecu-
liar circumstances in which we found ourselves involved,
it would have been better if the noble lord had met us
openly when the house first met, and told us that circum-
stances did not justify him in bringing forward so soon as
he intended a measure for Parliamentary reform ; that he
felt himself pledged to introduce a measure of that kind
as soon as circumstances admitted it—probably this session
—but that, until he clearly saw he had the power and op-
portunity of proceeding with the measure, he would not
detail to the house the scheme of reform which he meant
to introduce. (Hear, hear.) I think that would have
been the wisest and Most discreet course which a minister
could have taken ; because, sir, we mint remember that
this is a question which has not been hastily taken up by
the noble lord and his colleagues. (Hear, hear.) It is
now for several years that the noble lord, as minister and
as independent member, has been announcing to the house
and to the country that he intended to propose a further
reform of the House of Commons. The noble lord had the
advantage, as First Minister, of proposing a measure for
the reform of Parliament. It was laid on the table—not
a single objection was ever made by any gentleman who
sits on this side of the house—no opportunity was ever
)
given to us of discussing that measure. f(ReaNriehrar
ve
Well, a considerable time has now elapsed.
re which has no resemblance to the one
navolaTcha ea
was introduced two years ago ; and, therefore,
whic
different
it
erent
the noble lord cannot allege that in consequence of the
hear.) ow we are in a position
opposition at that time, or
Nothe e r
si
ssototally
criticism
af-
forded, (the
mersli aeuirel henow ffeast a prospect of the second Reform
Bill nillevhohaf ierth achettehrere noble lord not proceeding. It is postponed to a
distant day. Its projector announces that even he will not •
pledge himself on that distant day to bring it forward.
(Hear.) Its projector may be perfectly justified in the
course which he has taken, but in my opinion he ought
never to have brought forward the measure in detail, if he
watlnnt ottheseheoausefaitor peroonsepidecetr othif andvpaonicnitngaisiot..
that the Ministry of the country should
Pis iteefrsor.)thel
al) luwbal iyes a bd ev a nl
atyagg as it were, to its constitution.
(Hear.) It is a very fair thing for a member of the House
of Comnions, who thinks there ought to be a great change
in the State, to bring forward his ideas by way of motion
to this house. He generally gets defeated by a considera-
ble majority. He renews his efforts frord time to time; If
public sympathy is sluggish, his project sleeps; if circum-
stances allow him to bring forward with more advantage,
his project advances; it may in time be crowned with suc-
cess. He carries on a constitutional and not dangerous
agitation. The greatest evil which he has to encounter—
the very greatest misfortune he has to experience—is for
the house to be counted out—(Laughter)—as it once was
counted out on parliamentary reform itself. That course
certainly operates ili-no manner which is not beneficial to
the public : but it is a very different thing when a Minis-
ter announces that he is an agitator against the institu-
tions of the country. The noble lord may be perfectly
right in his views on this question—not that I am enter-
ing now, in any way, into the merits of his measure
—but it is a great disadvantage that the Minister of
England should be Avowedly one who disapproves of the
institutions of the country, and who does not change them
only because he has not the power. (Hear, and cheers.)
Whatever may be the merits of the views of the noble lord,
one great advantage in the constitution is, that it is athing
settled. We live under an institution, and the essence of
its excellency is, that it is something which is established.
(Hear, hear.) Now, I want to know what is the position
of the House of Commons—of the reformed House of Com-
mons, when within the last four or five years tho most
eminent man in our assembly, justly possessing the confi-
dence of a great party in the nationt,hhasis
institution announced;
that
thatt
he disapproves of the character of
b
inatematerialsalbs of which
it is formed ; that he thin
he disapproves of all its elemksenmtse,aosf theures
should
h. .
h
as
which !should greatly change its character, which should
I greatly affect its influence-10 yet is unable to
I measures, and does remain Minister of that country.pls
(Hear, hear,) There are a great many gentlemen in this
addressed
house like the member for East Kenttwho ns
l to-night, who are, they tell
us, and we have no reason to