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London, England, 1854-02-15 00:00:00

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IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOU OF LORDS--(YESTERDAY.)
Their lordships met at five o'clock. There was a
rather full attendance of peers, and a considerable num-
ber of ladies in the Peeresses' gallery.
Lord BROUGHAM was among the earlier arrivals, and
was cordially greeted •by the Earl of Aberdeen and
other noble lords, on his return from France.
ASSESSED TAXES ACT AMENDMENT BILL.
The Duke of NEWCASTLE moved the third reading
of the above bill.
The bill was then read a third time and passed.

is the object of the war ? I hope we shall have a satisfac-
tory peace. (Hear.) I want to know what is the peace
which the noble earl keeps in view. Not, I trust, that sort
of peace that we could have if we sent our fleet when Col.
Rose sent for it, or acted with France when the French
fleets sailed for Salamis. That is not the peace we now
wish to attain. (Hear.) If that be the peace which the
noble earl thinks to maintain—if he conceives that he can
maintain those treaties which have kept Europe in con-
stant dread, and that no indemnity is to be paid by Russia
for the aggression that has been committed, and that we
are to treat her now as we would have done ten or twelve
years ago—l tell him that Europe will not stand it, and
that we will not stand it. (Hear.) I know the Parliament
of this country, will not submit to such degradation. The
question with regard to local despatches, or whether a word
shall be this way or the other, or whether they shall ex-
press that certain privileges are to be ?granted ab antiquo,
or that some new sort of guarantee is to be given by Tur-
key to Russia, is not the matter now at all for considera-
tion. What the country and what Europe requires is, not
a pitiful and contemptible adjournment of war, but a mea-
sure that will secure the peace of Europe. (Hear.) That
is the purpose for. which we have armed. Let not the
Government bo afraid—let the Ministers say that is their
object—that they are prepared to make vigorous efforts
throughout the world to maintain peace. I know that
Parliament and the country will respond to that call, and
the issue of the contest I cannot for a moment doubt.
(Hear, hear.) In conclusion the noble earl moved, " That
an humble address be presented to her Majesty, humbly
praying that her Majesty will be graciously pleased to
direct the further information respecting the diplomatic
relations with the Court of St. Petersburg, and the war
which appears imminent, be laid before the house."
The Earl of CLARENDON—My lords, although I cer-
tainly do not anticipate all the benefit from the discussion
that my noble friend promised to us last week, when he
gave notice of his motion, yet I for one do not regret that
he has called the attention of your lordships to the ques-
tion in a more deliberate manner than has been possible
since the meeting of Parliament, for, involving as this
question does the most momentous consequences;,—affect-
ing, it may be, British interests in every quarter of the
world—l think your lordships and the country are entitled
not only to the fullest information upon the subject, but to
have that subject sifted and analysed in a manner that will
show whether the Government have done their duty; and
thereby entitled themselves to your confidence. (Hear,
hear.) I think no one who has listened to my noble
friend's speech can deny either the industry or ingenuity
with which he has analysed this information. (Hear,
hear.) I think nobody will deny that there has not entered
into his analysis one grain of partiality—l might almost
say one grain of fairness—towards her Majesty's Govern-
ment. (Hear, hear.) He has had the advantage—of which
he has largely availed himself—of testing the latest nego-
tiations, but he has not given to us the benefit of placing
himself in our position at any of the intermediate times,
and of deciding according to the circumstances. (Hear,
hear.) And what has been the result of this ? That lily
noble friend considers that if things had been done differ-
ently, a different result might have arisen. (Hear, hear.)
His charge against the Government is a matter of his own
opinion, and although I certainly shall not hope to satisfy
my noble friend that we have done our duty, or that we
have been guided by a true sense of what was due to the
country, or even able to carry out our own policy, yet I
venture to hope that such is not the verdict of the people
of this country, and that they do not think that we have
tarnished the honour of England by labouring to, maintain
the peace of Europe. (Hear, hear.) I certainly am the
last person to regret anything that has fallen from my
noble friend, for certainly I will say with all sincerity that
nobody has more regretted than myself that the conduct
of the negotiations should not have fallen into abler hands.
They were difficult in themselves, but were rendered far
more difficult under the circumstances. (Hear.) The great
distance between the' seats of negotiation, the time un-
avoidably lost in intercommunication, and the rapidity of
events which have often completely frustrated the best
founded hopes of success—all those thing have rendered
these negotiations peculiarly difficult. (Hear, hear.) I can
truly say that I have deeply regretted that they should not
have been confided to more able hands, but upon public
grounds I must regret the tone in which my noble friend
has brought this question before your lordships. (Hear.)
I think his object has been to disparage the Government.,
and to create disunion at a time when certainly we may at
any moment require all the strength of the union, and
when nothing like dissension should prevail. (Hear.) My
noble friend opposite—the noble earl—has said that, if war
there was to be in a just and righteous cause, he thought
we should lay aside all considerations of party, and en-
deavour to support the Government, because war should
not be undertaken at all except it were maintained by the
universal force and unanimity of the natidn. And I must
say, my lords, that I think that course would have been
the best course under the circumstances in which we are
now placed, and one which I believe would have been
more in harmony with the feelings of the people of this
country than the course which my noble friend has pur-
sued on this occasion. I think your lordships will not
deem it necessary for me to follow my noble friend through
all that he has said, and all that he has quoted, and not
quite correctly qfloted, as your lordships massieee from the
papers. My noble friend seems to think that Prince Men-
schikoff did sufficient in the earliest part of his mission to
Constantinople to have created alarm on our part, and to
have justified stronger measures. My lords, we are told,
as soon as the information could reach us from Constanti-
nople, of what the proceedings of Prince Menschikoff were
We asked in very distinct terms what were the real objects
of his mission, and we received the most direct answer.
And my noble friend is perfectly right in saying that there
were communications in contervations which could not be
properly placed in the blue books. I can assure my noble
friend that he is perfectly right in his assumption ; and
that these communicatiens were far stronger, although they
were confidential, than anything that will be found in the
printed papers. We received the strongest assurances that
Prince Menschikofi's mission had reference solely to the
question of the holy places ; and it was on that ground we
felt it impossible to doubt the representations of the Bus-
sianGoveinment. My lords, I should as soon have thought
of doubting what any noble lord in this house stated onhis
honour, as I would have thought of doubting or of taking
any measures in distrust of the assurances which Russia so
distinctly and so repeatedly expressed to us. I say, my lords,
that with the assurances which we received, it was impos-
sible not to believe in the sincerity of Russia. I said also,
the other night, that these assurances were for some time
borne out ; for, although Prince Menschikoff did in the first
instance propose a treaty that would have involved the no-
mination to the patriarchate and various otherthings, all of
which were matters which no doubt would have beenhighly
pleasing to the orthodox party in Russia, of which he was
at the head, yet we found afterwards to some extent the truth
of what we were told at St. Petersburg, viz., that the Prince
had great latitude in his instructions—that they referred
only to the holy places—and that, in fact, he was able to set-
tle that question in whatever way it appeared to him fit. I
say, again, therefore, that it was impossible not to believe
these assurances. But my noble friendhas greatly complained
of our not having approved of Col. Rose's conduct in calling
up the British fleet, and has complained of a disagreement
which he says had arisen between us and the French Govern-
ment ; and said that that measure, on our part, had pro-
duced great apprehension on the part of the Turkish Govern-
ment. Now I beg your lordships just to remember what
were the circumstances. (Hear.) Colonel Rose on Prince
Menschikofi's arrival, and when there was great excitement
at Constantinople, and he had had an interview with the
Turkish minister, requested that the fleet should be moved
up from Malta. Upon the French Government learning
that, and without any previous consultation with us, but
simply believing that the presence of their fleet would be
necessary, ordered their fleet to proceed to Marseilles to-
wards the Greek waters, with the view that if joint action
should be necessary they might, being in the Greek waters,
be more on a level, more on a par, with the English fleet
which was at Malta ; but there never was the slightest dis-
agreement between her Majesty's Government and that of
the Emperor of the French in this respect— (hear, hear)—
as your lordships will find from the despatches ; and as to
the mischief which it is said this occasioned to the cause,
if your lordships will turn to the despatches which my
noble friend only quoted a portion of, you will there find
that the Grand Vizier told Lord Stratford de Redcliffe,
and the latter agreed with him, that the cause of the Sul-
tan was much better served by the determination to keep
the fleet at Malta instead of ordering it to Constantinople.
And, my lords, when this simple fact was communicated
to the Russian Government, they said that the presence of
the fleets at Constantinople would cause the greatest em-
barrassment, and would be likely to prevent the settlement
of the question, which was not a question of aggression,
not a question of the principalities, and not one of the
questions which my noble friend said occupied the atten-
tion of Europe, but a question which was solely confined to
the subject of the holy places. with which we had nothing
to do ; and I think that the Russian Government would
have been borne out in what they said. They said, "Here
we give you assurances that we only have a view to the
holy places— we tell you all that we want to do, and all that
we have to dispute; and if the French and English fleets
come up and assume an attitude of hostility on that que fleets
we greatly think it will interfere with a peaceful solution
of the difference." And I must say that without giving my
noble friend Lord Stratford de Redcliffe all the praise be-
cause there had been no interference on our part with the
French Government, we simply stated that our fleet was
at Malta—that lad t
not think it was immediately
wanted—we are glad that the French fleet has gone where
it will be on a level with ours ; but we do not think (and
the French Government agreed with us) that at this mo.
ment it is necessary to send up ourthen fleet. And I think,
considering that the only question in view was one
in which no British interest was concerned—that the pre-
sence of the combined fleets would certainly have altered
the character of the proceedings. My noble friend (Lord
Clanricarde) has said that our ambassador at Constanti-
nople—with respect to whom I beg to say that I entirely
concur in all that fell from my noble friend, as to the great
talent, ability, and zeal which have been displayed by
that noble lord—my noble friend said that he went away
under erroneous instructions—that there was nothing in
them which contemplated what has since happened—and
that our Minister at Constantinople had no support, because
he bad nothing to offer or promise to Turkey. Now the in-
structions which were given to our ambassador, as will be
found in the age book, were that, if events which he did
not forsee should occur, and emergencies which we should
lament should arise, he was to give notice to the British
admiral to call up the fleet from Malta ; and in the first
despatch which our ambassador writes, giving au account
of his first audience with the Sultan, he states that he in-
formed the Sultan that, so far from having nothing to
offer, if he is in any difficulty. or danger, the support of
her Majesty's Government will be given, and that he has
a right to call up the fleet. I come now to the more im-
portant part of the speech of my noble friend, and which
will be considered by your lordships and the country as
of far more interest, perhaps, that the contents of the
blue books—l mean the question of whether we are at
peace or whether we are at war. My lords, that is a
most important question ; but your lordships must be
aware that a distinct answer cannot now lei given to

• -
it. We are at war, bey ar not declared—
we are not s tly at peace Russia. (A laugh.)
My noble fri d may laugh ; . he must know perfectly
well that I am correct in saying that we are not at war
with Russia, although diplomatic relations with that coun-
try have been suspended. (Hear, hear.) And you must
remember, my lords, that these relations have not been in-
terrupted in consequence of our act, the initiative having
been taken by Russia, who has declared that her diplo-
matic relations with us are simply suspended. Therefore
I consider that we are in the intermediate state, that our
desire for, peace is just as sincere as ever; but then I must
say that our hopes of maintaining it are gradually dwin-
dling away, and that we are drifting towards war. (A
laugh.) But as my noble friend (Lord Aberdeen) said the
other night, so long as war is not declared the maintenance
of peace is net utterly despaired of. I therefore consider,
my lords, that the negotiations are now at an end ; but
whether a state of warfare is instantly to ensue, I am sure
your lordships will not expect me in the exercise of my
discretion or responsibility to state to your lordships the
exact steps which her Majesty's Government think it neces-
sary to take in the present aspect of affairs. Because your
lordships must remember that we are not acting alone ; we
are acting in conjunction with our allies ; and I think it
will be sufficient at the present moment to say, in answer
to the doubts thrown upon our proceeding by my noble
friend, that every preparation is being made, and with all,,
the vigour and ail the rapidity which the existing state of ,
things demands. More than that, my lords, Ido not think
your lordships will expect me to say ; except that I have
only one thing to observe to my noble friend, who seems to'
imagine that we haven() understanding with France, either
as to the objects of our conjoint action, or as to the manner
in which they are to be carried out. My noble friend in this
is entirely mistaken ; but you lordships will not expect
that I should lay upon the table any agreement between
the two powers either as to our military or our naval opera-
tions. (Hear.) My lords, throughout my noble friend's
speech he treated our position as one that was anomalous
—anomalous with reference to Russia, and anomalous
with reference to Turkey. But he must remember that the
whole question, from beginning to end—from the earliest
period of the negotiations down to the present day—has
presented one continued series of anomalies, o be dealt
with one after another. My lords, what could be more
anomalous than that Russia should have perpetually pro-
claimed that the maintenance of the Ottoman Empire was
an European necessity, and that the independence of the
Sultan mast be upheld, and yet that she should, without
the shadow of a pretext, have demanded a power and a
right to interfere in that country which would have vir-
tually transferred tha allegiance of eight or ten millions of
the Sultan's subjects to the Emperor of Russia, and which
was truly declared by the Turkish Minister as a system
that would have killed the Ottoman Empire by slow
poison—(hear, hear)—and if the other great Powers of
Europe are equally bound by the same engagements with
Russia not to allow the open and direct invasion of the in-
tegrity of the Ottoman Empire, they are not less bound
to resist the same result being aimed at by a more slow,
subtle, and indirect policy; and they unanimously recom-
mended the Sultan to refuse to concede the final demands
made by Russia. I know there are persons in Parliament
and out of it, who consider that it would be far better not
to interfere at all between Russia and Turkey ; and that
it would be preferable to allow things quietly to take their
own course. (Hear, bear, from Earl Grey.) My noble
friend cheers that remark; but I think he does not very
distinctly nor very correctly weigh what would be the re-
suit of such a policy. We might certainly have avoided
the state of things which now excites and agitates men's
minds; but to do so would be to purchase a temporary re-
pose at a perilous risk, A protectorate over 8,000,000 or
10,000,000 of the Sultan's subjects, would have placed the
throne and empire of the Sultan completely at the mercy
of Russia at any moment. Do what you might to pre-
vent it, Russia might thus become the mistress of Con-
stantinople ; and, applying all her energies and all her
resources to increase her naval strength, she would
become a great Mediterranean power, being also a great
Baltic power. Why, my lords, in that case nothing would
prevent the Emperor of Russia from being the lord of
Europe—(hea4—and causing a constant and 'minions drain
upon the resources of other nations who wished to main-
tain an amount of naval force to counterbalance the power
of Russia. The defence of Turkey, under these circum-
stances, is a question which involves the independence of
Europe - (cheers)—and not France and England alone have
so regarded it, but Austria and Prussia likewise. No one
can doubt that, in the month of May last, Austria and
Prussia could have had no wish to quarrel or be at differ-
ence with Russia unnecessarily; and yet, my lords, the re-
presentatives of those two powers at Constantinople, being
consulted by the Porte, and receiving instructions from
their own Governments, cordially united with the ambas-
sadors of England and France in recommending the Porte
to resist the demands of Prince Menschikoff, clearly fore•
seeing the perilous results that must ensue from compliance
with them. And, my lords, if that was the case simply
with reference to the demand contained in the note which
Russia proposed that the Porte should accept, how much
more bound are these powers to support their own princi-
pies when they see the violation of those principles at-
tended by so dangerous a measure as the occupation of the
Danubian Principalities? The occupation of these princi-
palities, my lords, gave to the question a greater import-
ance and interest, and imposed on the four powers the ne-
cessity and the duty of resisting the policy of that fifth
power which had always proclaimed the same principles,
and was bound by the same engagements—principles and
engagements which up to this time it had solemnly declared
its inention of maintaining. My lords, the occupation of
the principalities constituting a cares belli, and yet there
being no declaration of war, and then again the declara-
tion of Russia that nothing new was demanded, and yet
its absolute refusal to accept the status quo, form two other
instances in that series of anomalies for which Russia, and
certainly not this country, is responsible. My noble
friend, in speaking of the occupation of the principalities
—an act which he designates, 1 must say, in not too strong
terms—appears to think that we ought to have held
firmer language to the Emperor of Russia on this subject.
(Hear, hear, from the Opposition.) Now, I believe that
a reference to the blue book will relieve us from this
charge, because it will show that from the moment that
we discovered that the objects contemplated by Russia
were other than those which we were led to expect, and
that other demands then those which had been all along
stated to us were made upon Turkey, there has been no
backwardness in our remonstrances, no wavering or indis-
tinctness
in the expressio'n of our opinions, no failure in
our attempts to convince the Emperor of the injustice of
his demands, and of the enormous danger with which he
threatened the peace of Europe by deviating from.that
peaceful policy which had characterised his whole reign,
and by acting in violation of those principles regarding the
maintenance of the Ottoman empire which he had so often
proclaimed. My lords, that, I think, was the proper
course for us to pursue, and the language which was be-
coming in us to use. But my noble friend seems to think
that we should have gone at first still further, and have
menaced Russia, and stated what we should be prepared
to do. My lords, I have previously stated the reason why
her Majesty's Government, though full admitting that the
cases belli was clear and complete, yet did not recommend
the Sultan to stand upon his rights—in which advice we
were forestalled by our ambassador at Constantinople, who
certainly was no bad judge of what was the interest of
Turkey, and whose advice, moreover, had already been
adopted by the Sultan before our advice reached Constan-
tinople. I say, my lords, that we could not recommend
the Sultan to act on his right, and declare war, so long as
there was a hope of the peaceful settlement of the question,
and while the Sultan was in a state in which he was in-
capable of offering resistance. My noble friend, I think,
will not say that at the time we desired and recommended
the Sultan to remain at peace he should have advised Eng-
land and France to declare war. But supposing that we had
induced the Sultan to do that, he believing it to be contrary
to his interest, and that in July last we had done that which
my noble friend says he regretswas not done; and I am sure
mynoble friend would not have recommended us to do this if
he had himself been a responsible Minister—but supposing
that in July last her Majesty's Government had come down
to Parliament with a menace to Russia, and she had defied
us, and we had declared war with her, sure I am that my
noble friend would have been the very first (and I think
your lordships would have agreed with him in doing so) in
accusing us of having acted with haste and precipitation,
and of having plunged the country into war and would
have said there was no wonder that we had driven Austria
and Prussia into a close alliance with Russia—that we had
treated with contempt their wishes, and made no real
effort to preserve peace, and that there was no wonder that
they would not support us, because we had asked and re-
ceived distinct categorical assurances that they entertained
the same views as ourselves, but we had not relied upon
them or waited for their co-operation. (Hear.) My noble
friend has said there were no debates on this question in
the last session of Parliament, but I find that certainly
there was no lack of discussions, generally promoted by
himself ; and I will refer to one ast year, in which my
noble friend took the initiative, and in which he said that
any promise given by the Emperor of Russia, and any en-
gagements into which he entered, he was satisfied that he
would faithfully and punctually fulfil, and at that time I
expressed my concurrence in my noble friend's confidence
in the honour and integrity of the Emperor ;. and the man-
ner in which this statement was received in this house
showed that your lordships did not think the confidence of
her Majesty's Government in the Emperor's declarations
would be misplaced. That discussion took place on the
29th of April, and that day month it was my duty to ra.
capitulate these assurances of confidence in a despatch now
in your lordship? hands, and your lordships are the judges
whether or not these assurances were not of an explicit
kind, and whether, at the time they were made, we had
not reason to rely that Russia had no idea of aggran-
disement or of encroachment, and whether we should
have been justified in plunging this country into a war.
But the next point to which my noble friend alluded was
our communications with Russia. I will shortly refer to
what these communications were. When the Turkish Go-
vernment found that further negotiations were hopeless,
and thought it advisable to commence hostilities, the allied
fleets were ordered up to the Bosphorus ; and in October
last a communication was made to the Russian Govern-
ment, stating that the fleets were not there for the purpose
of attacking Russia, but that we were determined to defend
the Turkish territory. My lords, no aggression did take
place on the Turkish territory ; and in the meantime we
received assurances (and they were distinctly given to the
Austrian Government as well) that Russia would still re-
main on the defensive. For upwards of a month there
was no aggression committed on the Turkish territory,
until the horrible affair at Sinope occurred, when the
Turkish fleet, peacefully anchored in a Turkish harbour,
was completely destroyed, and where, if the combined fleets
had been present, they would have repelled the aggression
and chastised the aggressor. Her Majesty's Government
then felt, in conjunction with that of the Emperor of the
French, that the time was come, not only to prevent the
recurrence of such a disaster, but at once to protect the
Ottoman flag and Ottoman territory ; and no time was lost
in making such a communication both to the Russian Go-
vernment and the Russian admiral. But we did not think
—whatever may be mynoble friend's opinion—in the situ-
ation in which matters then stood, that to permit an ag-
gression (we having undeitaken to defend the Turkish ter-
ritory) on the Russian territory would have been prop er
or lawful. We did no harm to the Turks by that, because
they were too weak to attempt any a.,),,ression upon the
Russians, and they could only have done so under the pro-
tection of the Frcnch and English Lags. We thought that
for us to permit that, and to become accessories, and more
than accessories, in acts of overt hostility towards Russia,
would have been justly to e- pose ourselves to the accusation
of having committed acts of hostility without having the
manliness or the courage to declare war. We considered
that that would have been a dastardly course,
unworthy and wholly
of England. We did not declare war at the time
protecting the
these instructions were sent, because, in the beginning of
December, we did not see that war was necessary.. -Wei
had reason to expect that our objects in
Turkish territory and flag might be carried out without
war ; but to commit acts of hostility under the mask of
with us—would have been unjust and unbecoming the dig.
peace we thought—and lam sure your lordships will agree
nity and character of this country. (Hear, hear.) our
communication to St. Petersburg was not regarded la the
friendly light which my noble friend seems to think. On
the contrary, tho lit an CioTtruraenti 10 Au from wag