The Sun.
London, England, 1854-06-20 00:00:00

being very like a falsehood. He was sorry the Chancellor of
the Exchequer was not in the house, because he perceived that
the right hon. gentleman was a member of this very society,
and therefore, to a certain extent, a participator in the sys-
tem of making loose declarations ; and what for ? He
would not say it was for the purpose of absolutely defraud-
ing the revenue; but it certainly tended to lessen the
charge which these publications would otherwise have to
pay. If the act was strictly complied with these publica-
tions, not being newspapers, would have to pay according
to weight, and would, therefore, he au addition to the
public revenue. It was not for him to defend the public
revenue, but both on moral and financial grounds the sub-
ject was worthy of attention. He therefore asked the hon.
gentleman to let them see the order ; and he wished also
to know if it allowed these publications to go through the
post for a penny, and at the same time fettered it with the
condition of requiring a false declaration? He was desi-
rous to receive an answer to these questions because he was
acquainted with a gentleman who was anxious to avail
himself of the privilege, but did not wish to make the
false declaration that the publication was a newspaper
when he knew that it was not. (Hear.) He wished to
ask whether, if the Government were not prepared to deal
with the larger quest;on, they would not settle this ?
Mr. J. WILSON said that his right hon. friend accused
the Board of Inland Revenue of calling on people to make
false declarations, but his right hon. friend did so under a
misapprehension of the real state of the case. It was true
that the Treasury, on the representation of the Post-office,
had so far relaxed the regulations as to permit pamphlets
to be stamped as newspapers, and, being open at both ends
to pass through the Post-office. But the Board of Inland
Revenue had nothing to do with the matter. They said
to applicant., "If you call your pamphlet a newspaper, ,
here are the conditions attached to its publication ? ' It
was for the applicant to define it and for the beard to affix
the stamp. It was quite true that various publications
passed through the Post-office under the character of
newspapers. Nothing was more common than for private
commercial firms to call their trade circulars newspapers ;
have them so entered at S snierset-house, and so clatain
their passage through the Post-office. When a person
went to Somerset-house, all the Commissioners of Inland
Revenue had to do was to see whether it was proper
that permission should be given to affix a stamp,
and that the party applying made the declaration as
required by law. The person applying, declared not
only that the publication was a newspaper, but that
it was his property, and that he conscientiously be-
lieved that all he stated was true. It was not for the
board to doubt the man's word, but the best course would
be to lay the correspondence between the Treasury and
the Post-office on the table, sas the right hon. member
required.
Mr. BRIGHT thought the hon. member for Westbury
had not been at all successful in answering the question of
his right hon. friend, because it was quite clear that the
officer at Somerset-house must have knowe that the pub-
lication in question was not a newspaper. It purported to
be the quarterly account of the society for providing ad-
ditional curates in the church of England, a society of
which the Chancellor of the Exchequer and both arch-
bishops were members. A pamphlet published quarterly
could not come under the class which our ill-defined news•
paper law defined as newspapers, nor under the definition
given last year. The fact was that the Board of Inland
Revenue treated different people in a different manner.
In this case the society could stamp, suppose 500
pamphlets for country circulation under the pretence
that they were newspapers, while at the same time they
were permitted to circulate their unstamped publications in
town. How came it then in other cases, the Board of In-
land Revenue did not allow parties to act in that manner,
but required a person living in the next street to stamp all
his issue of what they defined to be a newspaper. It ap-
peared that there was one law and two applications of the
law. He (Mr. Bright) thought it but fair that in all these
fiscal matters where taxes were levied, they should be
levied without distinction, and that the board should not
exercise a kind of censorship under which publications of
one class were allowed to go part stamped and part un-
stamped, while others were obliged to bear a stamp on
every copy. The hen. member for Westbury said that the
board had nothing to do with the matter, that the party
applying made a declaration, and the board was obliged to
receive it as valid. But did he mean to say that if a per-
son brought a pair of boots to Somerset-house and sought
to pass them through the post with a penny stamp, the
officer would take his declaration for granted ? (A.
laugh.) In such a case he believed that the officer
would open his eyes a little and come to the conclusion
that the boots were not a newspaper. There was another
point to which he (Mr. Bright) wished to call the atten-
tion of the Government—he meant the case of the Penny
Commercial Journal, published in Dublin by Mr. Shaw.
When ho had last put the question to the Chancellor of
the Exchequer, that right hon. gentleman said that. the
verdict in Mr. Shaw's favour was a bad verdict, and should
undergo further consideration. But on the faith of that
verdict persons were publishing who would bo liable to
prosecution if it should be overturned. He hoped, there-
fore, that if Government intended to take any further steps
in the matter their course would be explained by the At-
torney-General.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that the matter was
not in his department. It was an Irish prosecution, and
of course in the hands of the Attorney-General for Ireland.
It had not been brought before him, and, in the absence
of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, he could not say a
word on the subject.
Mr. M. GIBSON reminded the hon. and learned gen-
tleman that the Chancellor of the Exchequer had said,
that as the verdict in question effected a number of Eng-
lish periodicals it had been referred to the English Attor-
ney-General.
The house then went into committee of
SUPPLY.
On the vote for the sum of 164,1651. for the maintenance
of prisoners in county gaols and lunatic asylums,
Mr. SCHOLEFIELD moved the reduction of the vote
by 1001., being the salary for chaplain, on the ground that
the same rule laid down by the committee ought to be ex.
tended to all creeds.
Colonel GREVILLE complained of the insults that
were offered in that house to the Roman Catholic creed, and
urged the committee to take a wider view of the question.
Mr. CHAMBERS contended that the State could make
for prisoners only the same religious provision that it made
for those who had not forfeited their liberty.
Sir G. GREY said that the sum in question was given
between the Roman Catholic and the Protestant chap-
lains, and that if this vote were refused the unhappy indi-
viduals in the asylum would be deprived of all religious
consolation.
Mr. H. DRUMMOND said that the Government had
no right to provoke such discussions while blowing but
and cold on the subject of Catholicism and Pretestanism.
After some observations by Mr. Phinn, Mr. Adderley,
and Lord Seymour,
The committee divided, and the numbers were—
For the original vote 246
For Mr. Scholefield's amendment
The CHAIRMAN then put the vote in its original form.
In answer to a question by Colonel DUNNE as to certain
allowances made to Ireland for county rates at the time of
the repeal of the corn laws,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he was
quite unable to inform the hon. and gallant member as to
the disposal of moneys long antecedent to his assumption
of office. He would suggest to the hon. and gallant gentle-
man the propriety of moving for a return of the moneys
voted for the purposes alluded to, and the manner in
which they had been disposed of, and then he would lay
the foundation for any further proceedings which he might
think it necessary to take. That would be much more
convenient than renewing discussions of this kind without
the house being in possession of any information whatever
on the subject.
Colonel DUNNE said he would move for the appoint-
ment of a committee at the first opportunity.
After a few remarks from Mr. Macartney, Mr. W. Wil-
Hams, Mr. Fitzroy, and Mr. F. French, the vote was
agreed to.
A vote of 92,7651. for the expenses of transportation of
convicts was agreed to.
On a vote of 312,702 for convict establishments in the
colonies,
Mr. G. DUNDAS desired an explanation of the disparity
between the cost of convicts at Gibraltar and in Western
Australia, the latter being more than double that of the
cavt former.hoincsa
reMettt
nsfrrai..e:nynAPetrwtDE,
were
aElieinntsLEtti;sspi
eamLrilvi.o(vEl
Australia
Western
oemtr
nnbhieougauAth gtbuah,yststpthtGrehoatriheulhbialaarGatpa
bwt,vaereabrgrsenel
coi
not why m theor
more
than in Gibraltar.
Mr. PEEL stated that provisions were much dearer in
temahasnseceruyen:atuatunws. bneetrreesd
oi fur
cc
00 bnny:
Australia, and considerable expense had been incurred in
the construction of prisons.
After some further explanations, the vote was agreed to.
The next vote of 4,042/. for civil establishments in Ber-
mudas was agreed to without observation, but it appeared
members had been unable to follow the Secretary of the
Treasury, and there was a general exclamation of " Where
are we ?"
Mr. WILSON said it was the first vote of No. 5, the
education votes, No. 4, having been post, oned for a few
days, as stated by the noble lord (Lord John Russell).
Mr. WILLIAMS complained bittorly that they had not
been told that the votes were to be taken irregularly. He
had intended to object to the last vote, and could only say
the Government had carried it "downright surrepti-
tiously." (A laugh.) The hon. member proceeded to ask
explanations on some matters connected with the vote just
passed, which were afforded by Mr. Peel, though some-
what out of order.
On the vote of 7,5471. for the clergy in the Bahamas and
North America,
Mr. ADDERLEY inquired whether or not the Colonial
Clergy Bill w es to be proceeded with this session?
Lord J. RUSSELL said that ho could not give a decided
answer to this question, as this point had not been finey
determined. He, however, promised to give a more ex-
plicit answer upon a future day.
Another vote of 9,9381. for the Indian department of
Canada was agreed to, after which, upon the motion of Mr.
BROTHERTON, the house resumed, and the Chairman
reported progress, and obtained leave to sit again.
PUBLIC REVENUE AND CONSOLIDATED FUND
CHARGES BILL.

The house having gone into committee on this bill,
Mr. CRA.UFIIRD rose to move an amendment of the
schedules by which the salaries of the sheriffs and sheriffs-
substitutes in Scotland might be removed from schedule
A and placed in schedule B, thus making them subject to
the annual vote of Parliament.
Colonel DUNNE moved the adjournment of the discus-
sion upon this bill. There were several important amend-
ments which could not be properly considered at that late
hour.

Mr. WILSON hoped the discussion would he delayed
till Thursday, when he intended to move the third reading
of the bilL He had prepared a clause to meet the objec-
tions of the hon. members opposite, and he would propose
its insertion on the third reading..
Mr. V. SCULLY supported the motion for an adjourn-
ment. He intended to propose an amendment to the effect
that the English judges should be placed oa the same foot-
ing us their Irish brethren.
Mr. NAPIER also hoped that the farther consideration
of the bill would be delayed.
Mr. HENLEY said it had been understood, that when
the house net at noon no discussion would be entered into
after midnight. It was now ha!f-past 12, and really, if
the debate was allowed to go on, he would advise hon.
members to bring their beds with them. (A laugh.)
Lord J. RUSSELL—That arrangement was only to be
enforced when the house had a Morning sitting.
Mr. HENLEY—Well, we aro to meet at 12 o'clock to-
day.
Mr. WILSON' said there was one class of estimates to be
ed
dfo jr.warti at that advanced hour.
laid.on the table of the house which it would be impossible
to dispose of until this bill should have passed into law.
Mr. J. BUTT saw no good reason why the bill should be
oufrit debate RUt tdhaeyn,
and tiie 4detboa
tthe adjournment
jisoduirontumne
adjourned
accordingly

. -•
'The house theuittinined shortly after one o'klock.