The Sun.
London, England, 1853-06-25 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, JUNE 25, 185 a

governed in India. (Hear, hear.) That is a fundamental '
law which we did not make, which we cannot alter, and
to which we should do our best to conform our legislation.
(Hear.) While such an extent of ocean and of continent
lies between Calcutta and London, India must be governed
there, and not hero. Ay, in spite of all the improvements
which science has made, a dispatch from India is not road
in London until six weeks after it was sent from Calcutta.
Suppose it is answered on the very day when it reaches
here, six weeks more must elapse before the answer arrives
at Calcutta. But no such dispatch is answered oil' the
same day as that of its arrival—very rarely indeed in the
same month. The double government, whatever be its
merits or demerits, is unquestionably not an expeditious
government. When a dispatch is received, it must be con-
sidered, and both branches of the governing body at home
must have opportunities of offering suggestions as to the
answer to be sent out ; and when you reflect on all this—
when_e you take into consideration the delay which is the
effect of your machinery and the effect of distance—you
will see that when a dispatch reaches Calcutta it is a
dispatch not calculated to meet the state of things existing
on its arrival, but such as extended six months before. No
empire can be governed by a dispatch shaped to meet a
condition of circumstances which existed six months be-
fore. (Hear.) All our own experience proves that this is
impossible. We all remember when, upon a July, a Royal
speech congratulated Parliament on the increasing pros.
perity of the country ; and yet within 24 hours of our
parting before Christmas we had a famine. We all, too,
recollect when, in autumn all Europe seemed in a state of
profound peace ; and yet, in the next year, from the Vis-
tula to the Bay of Biscay there was nothing but war and
insurrection. (Hear.) Of what use in such a conjuncture
would be the ablest and clearest instructions on foreign
policy drawn out six months previously? (Hear.) It is
therefore impossible that India can be really governed, ex-
cept in India. The instructions sent out there are gene-
rally exposition of principles, the business of the home
authorities being rather to suggest what is best than to
give positive directions as to the future ; and when the
instructions are most positive there is almost always a pro-
viso that, after all, the local authorities must, on a view of
the circumstances existing wnen the instructions arrive,
exercise their own discretion as to what is to be done. The
whole history of the Indian Government is full of instances
to this effect ; but from my own experience I think I can
illustrate this proposition in the clearest manner, for when
I had a part in the government of India I can venture to
say that every day important measures were taken by the
Government—indeed, every measure of which history will
hereafter make mention, was taken without any authority
whatever from the home Government. (Hear.) I believe
that almost every one of those measures or acts was re-
garded with disapprobation at home; yet not one of them
was rescinded or annulled, but every one of them was suf-
fered to stand, the language of the home authorities gene-
rally being such as this—" You have done wrong, but
what you have done is done." That was most eminently
the case with respect to that great reform made in 1835 by.
Lord W. Bentinck before his departure from India on the
subject of native education. Such was the case with re-
spect to the abolition of the transit duties. On that occa-
sion a severe reprimand came out with respect to the
distinguished functionary who bore the chief part in
that transaction. Nevertheless, the transit duties were
abolished, and that great boon was conferred on the
people of India. The same was the case with respect
to the act which established the liberty of unlicensed
printing. (Hear.) A severe reprimand came out to
India on account of the rashness imputed to the legis-
lative authorities there, but, nevertheless, they were not
directed to annul the act. The same, too, was the case
with respect to the act in regard to the uniformity of coin-
age. Here, again, a reprimand came out, but still the act
was allowed to remain. These four instances, all taken
from a period of less than a year and a quarter, are suffi-
cient to give a general idea that the organisation of the
government of India is really of more importance to the
happiness of the people of that country than the organisa-
tion of the home Government. (Hear.) Without meaning
to speak with the least disrespect of the functions exer-
cised by the home Government, I am not sure whether the
most important of all their functions is not the choice of
the Governor-General, and I should be inclined to say that
even upon the character of the Governor-General much
less depends than on the general character and spirit of
those servants by whom the administration of India is
carried out. (Hear, hear.) A test, then, by which I am
inclined to judge of the present bill is the probable effect
it would have on the character of the civil service in
India. (Hear, hear.) Is it likely to raise or to lower
the character of that distinguished body which furnishes
India with its judges and collectors ?—for, without mean-
ing tho slightest disrespect to the Court of Directors, I
must say that three or four or six incompetent directors
would cause far less evil to the people of India than a
single incompetent collector in a district where a settle-
ment is to be made between the Government and the vil-
lagers. Though many hon. gentlemen fancy they knoW
what the functions of a collector of revenue are, yet there
exists, and I am surprised at it, a strange ignorance as to
the power and importance of functionaries of that class in
India. Some gentlemen seem to imagine, putting the In-
dian collector at the very highest, he is something like a
commisaioner of taxes or stamps in this country, while the
truth is that the collector of revenue in many parts of
India is the sole consul of a great province, the district
assigned to him being about the size of one of the four
provinces of Ireland, of Leinster or of Munster, and the
population therein about 1,000,000 of human beings. In
all that district there is not a single village—there is not
a singly it—in which the difference between a good
and a bad collector may not make a difference between
happiness and misery. (Hear.) The difference between
a good and bad collector to the people in such a dis-
trict is infinitely greater than the difference between the
very best and the very worst government that we have
ever seen, or are likely ever to see in England, can be to the
people here. (Hear.) I have been assured by those who
have had the best opportunities of judging, that you might
read the character of the collector in the eyes and in the
garb of the population—in the appearance of the fields and
of the houses. When there was an incapable collector the
peasantry there were broken-hearted. In the first place,
the ornaments of the women, on which the peasantry of
India place so much value, are sold—then the pressure
overcame their fondness for the village to which they be-
longed, and emigration by hundreds and thousand,' took
place. The villages became desolate, the jungle encroached
on the country before cultivated, and wild boasts made
Glens where human habitations stood before. But let a
good collector replace the bad one, and the whole scene is
altered. Cultivation reappears, the jungle recedes, the
tigers and beasts of prey return
,to their former haunts,
and tho fugitive population come back to their villages.
Such a power as that which collectors in India have over
the people is in no part of the world possessed by any class
of functionaries—(hear)—and I can conceive that if we
made the best arrangement with respect to the Home Go-
vernment we should be rendering far smaller service to
those millions whose interest, in the first place, we have to
consider, than if we raised the capacity for the civil ser-
vice. (Hear, hear.) Some gentlemen for whose ability I
have great respect—though I cannot agree with them—
think the best mode of,improving the government of India
is by giving the public appointments to the Governor-
General, and letting him choose his instrument for the adini-
nistration. There will be no want of ability, they say, if ,1
you only give him the freedom to choose those who serve
under him. There is something plausible in the proposi-
tion that you should allow him to choose able men where-
ever ho finds them. But my firm opinion is, that the day
on which the civil service of India ceases to be a close ser-
vice will be the beginning of an ago of jobbing the most
monstrous, the most extensive, and the most perilous that
ever existed. (Hear.) Every Governor-General would, in
such case, carry out with him, or would soon be followed
by, a crowd of relatives, nephews, first and second cousins,
friends, and political hangers-on, while every steamer ar-
riving from tho Red Son would carry to India adventurers
bearing with them letters from some powerful man in Eng-
land, all praying for employment. Then upon these persons
so recommended the Governor-General would have it in his
power to distribute residences, seats in the Council Board,
and places of from 4,0001. to 6,0001. a-year, upon men with-
out the least acquaintance with the charactor or habits of
the natives, and with only sufficient knowledge of the lan-
guage to be able to call for a bottle of pale ale, or to desire
their attendants to pull the punkah harder. (Laughter.)
These men would be sent to exercise authority in different
districts. Ono might bo sent to a great station as a ruler;
and Mysore, not inferior to Scotland in extent and popu-
lation, might be made subject to his absolute power.
(Hear, hear.) In what way could you put a check on such
proceedings ? Would you—the House of Commons—con-
trol them? Have you been so completely successful in
extirpating nepotism and jobbing at your door, and in
excluding all abuses from Whitehall and Somerset-house,
that you should fancy that you could establish purity in
countries the situation of which you do not know, and
tho names of which you cannot pronounce. (Cheers and
laughter.) I believe most firmly that instead of purity
resulting from that arrangement to India, India would
soon be tainted by it ; and that, before long, when a son
or brother of some active member of this house went out
to Calcutta, carrying with him a strong letter of recom-
mendation from the Prime Minister to the Governor-Ge-
neral, that letter would be really a bill of exchange drawn
on the revenues of India for value received from Parlia-
mentary support. (Hear, hear.) That would be no new
traffic, but only an old traffic revived. We aro not with-
out a guide and experience on this point. We have only
to look back to those lamentable and shameful years which
followed the first establishment of our power in Bengal.
Then, as may be well-known if you only look to any poet,
satirist, or essayist of those times, you may see in what
manner the system of appointments operated. Looking
over, only yesterday, for another object, a file of news-
papers of 1771, I was struck by a paragraph stating that
Mr. So-and-So, who went out with the Governor-General
only three years ago, had just landed with 40,0001. (Hear,
hear.) These were the sort of men, who took no office,
but simply got the Governor-General to pay a species of
ransom, laying upon him a sort of tax—what the Mah-
rattas call choret and the Scotch blackmail—that is, the
sum paid to a thief, in consideration that ho wont away
without doing harm. (Laughter.) There was a tradition
in Calcutta, where the story was very circumstantially
told and generally believed, that a man came out with a
strong letter of recommendation from one of the Ministers
to Lord Clive ' • and when Lord Clive saw that he was not
only unfit for, but would positively do harm in any office,
his lordship said, in a way peculiar to him, " Well, chap,
how much do you want ?" Not being accustomed to be
spoken to so plainly, the man replied that ho only hoped
for some situation in which his services might bo useful.
" That is no answer, chap," said Lord Clive, " How
much do you want ? Will 10,0001. do ?" The person
replied, that he should be delighted if by laborious ser-
vice ho could obtain that competence. Lord Clive then
wrote out an order for the sum, and told the applicant to
leave India by
again to remain ship he came in, and, once in England
(Hear, and laughter.) I think the
story is very yn-obabelee, and I also think that the people
of India ought to behe grateful for the course Lord Clive pur-
sued ; for though pillaged the people of Bengal to give
this man a large sumPi the man himself, if he had re-
ceived an appointmenty,ewo.rd not only have pillaged, but
misgoverned the people. Against abuses of this kind the
only security is that thez civilh seervice be kept close, and the
consequence of keepin
clo,seheis,mthua:tt though
e the Governor-General has a wireich
a certain set of inatgrruemeoieicemntis which he finds
from among
it.ble that any
prepared. It is in the highest de
India, should
one, upon going out as GovernotVe eeinveirl
aervi
oavnedr
htehre.
find any relatives or friends in
consequence is, that the most unscrapulousceer;
Goal)igisA
General would dispose of his patronage under the present
system more properly than an upright Glo6,_verar7l-0
under a system by which he should b e at I'
any one. Even an unscrupulous Governor-General when
.
he finds he cannot oblige relations and friends, comes 4o
the conclusion that the best thing to do is, to appoint men
who would do the mosttcredit to his choice and maim tho
most public service go on
easilyand successfully. (Hear,
hear.) That valuable man (Lord W. Bntinck) in the month
he left India, said, in my hearing, ` ` I have now b
seven years, and during that time I have had to dispose of
immense lucrative patronage, and I have never but once
in all that time been able to do a single service to a.single
English friend." There was the office of a police magistrate
vacant at Calcutta DA strictly bol9l3giDg to 010 civil Nov ,

Lfsot
af
nhei
es
gleenind
who had fallen into distress. That was
vice, and Lord W. Bentinck gave it tothtehis
where Lord W. Bentinck had an opportunity of appointing
a friend, by going out of the service. What a security such
a system is for the proper disposal of the patronage !—infi-
nitely a better security than even the virtues of such a
man ; for if any man is to be trusted with the uncontrolled
disposal of the Indian patronage Lord W. Bentinck cer-
tainly was. (Hear, hear.) Then it appears w,-; are agreed
that it is of the highest importance that the cavil service
in India should be most capable and efficient. We are
agreed, also, that it must be a close service. In this case,
it certainly necessarily follows that we ought to watch with
the utmost care over the road to admission to that service
—that we ought, if possible, to take such measures that
this service may consist entirely of fit and superior men.
Now, it is because, in my opinion, this bill does tend to
produce that effect that I feel earnestly desirous that it
should pass, and pass without delay. (Hear, hear.) My
right hon. friend (Sir C. Wood) proposes that all places
in the civil service—all admissions to the civil service,
shall be distributed among young men by competition in
those studies (as I understand the plan) which constitute
a liberal British education. That plan was originally sug-
gested by Lord Grenville in a speech which, though I do
not concur in any part of it, I would earnestly recommend
every gentleman to read, for I believe that since the death
of Burke nothing more remarkable has been delivered.
Nothing, however, on this point was then done, and the
matter slept till 18.3.3, when my friend Lord Glenelg, the
purest and most disinterested of men, proposed the adop-
tion of a plan not altogether framed according to his views,
but still a plan which would have introduced this principle
of competition. Upon that plan 20 years ago I remember
speaking here. I ought not to say hole, for the then
House of Commons was burnt down, and of the audience
I then addressed the greater part has passed away. But
my opinion on that subject has always been the same.
(Hear, hear.) The bill was passed, but difficulties arose
with respect to the enactments I have just referred to, and
they were repealed, and the patronage continued to run in
the old course. It is now proposed to introduce this prin-
ciple of competition again, and I do most earnestly entreat
this house to give it a fair trial. (Hear.) I was truly
glad to hear the noble lord who proposed the present amend-
ment express approval of the general principle of that part
of the bill. I was glad, but not surprised at it, for it is
what I should expect from a young man of his spirit and
ability and recent experience of academical competition.
(Hear, hear.) But I must say Ido join with the hon.
member for Kidderminster in feeling some surprise at
the manner in which that part of the plan has been
spoken of by a nobleman of great eminence, once presi-
dent of the Board of Control . and Governor-General of
India and of very distinguished ability as a statesman. If
I understand the opinions imputed to that noble lord, he
thinks the proficiency of a young man in those pursuits
which constitute a liberal education is not only no indica-
tion that he is likely in after life to make a distinguished
figure, but that it positively raises a presumption that in
after life he will be overcome in those contests which then
take place. I understand that the noble lord is of opinion
that young men gaining distinction in such pursuits are
likely to turn out dullards and utterly unfit for the con-
tests of active life, and I am not sure that the noble lord
did not say that it would be better to make boxing or
cricket a test of fitness than a liberal education. I
must say it seems to me that there never was a fact better
proved by an immense mass of evidence, by an experience
almost unvaried, than this—that men who distinguish them-
selves in their youth above their cotemporaries in academic
competition almost always keep to the end of their lives
the start theyhave gained in the earlier part of their career.
This experience is so vast that I should as soon expect to
hear any one question it as to hear it denied that arsenic
is poison, or that brandy is intoxicating. Take the very
simplest test. Take down in any library the Cambridge
Calendar. There you have the list of honours for a hun-
dred years. Look at the list of wranglers and of junior
optimes, and I will venture to say that for one man who
has in after life distinguished himself among the junior
optimes you will find 20 among the wranglers. Take the
Oxford Calendar; look at the list of first-class men, and
compare them with an equal number of men in the third
class, and say in which list you find the majority of men
who have distinguished themselves in after life. But is
not our history full of instances which prove this fact?
(Hear, hear.) Look at the church, the Parliament, or the
bar. Look to the Parliament from the time when Parlia-
mentary government began in this country—from the days
of Montagu and St. John to those of Canning and Peel.
You need not stop there, but come down to the time of
Lord Derby and my right hon. friend the Chancellor of
the Exchequer. (Hear, hear.) Has it not always been
the case that the men who were first in the competition of
the schools have been the first in the competition of life?
(Hear, hear.) Look also to India. Tho ablest man who
ever governed India was Warren Hastings, and was he not
in the first rank at Westminster? (Cheers.) The ablest
civil servant I ever knew in India was Sir Charles Met-
calfe, and was he not a man of the first standing at Eton ?
The most distinguished member of the aristocracy who
ever governed India was Lord Wellesley. What was his
Eton reputation ? What was his Oxford reputation ?
(Hear, hear.) But I must mention—l cannot refrain from
mentioning—another noble and distinguished Governor-
General. A few days ago, while the memory of the speech
to which I have alluded was still fresh in my mind, I read
in the Musce Cantabrigienses a very elegant and classical
ode, which the University of Cambridge rewarded with a
gold medal. The subject was the departure of the house
of Braganza from Portugal for Brazil. The young poet,
who was then only 17, described in very Horatian
Language and versification the departure of the fleet, and
pictured the great Portuguese navigator, Vasco do alma,
and the groat Portuguese poet Camoens hovering over the
armament which was to convey the fortunes of the Portu-
guese monarchy to a now hemisphere ; and with pleasure,
not altogether unmingled with pain, I read at th o bottom
of that composition the name of the Hon. Edward Law, of
St. John's College. I must say I saw with some consider-
able pleasure that the name of Lord Ellenborough may be
added to the long list of those distinguished men who, in
early youth, have, by eminent academical MCC: E3B, given
an augury of the di-eting,uished part which they were after-
wards to play ; and I could not but feel some concern and
surprise that a nobleman so honourably distinguished in
his youth by attention to those studies should, in his
maturer years, have descended to use language respecting
them which I think would have better become the lips of
Ensign Northerton, or the captain in Swift's poem, who
says—

" Your Noveds and Bluturchs, and Omurs and stuff,
By George, they dont't signify this pinch of snuff;
To give a young gentleman right education, •
The army's the only good school in the nation."
(Laughter;) The noble lord seemed, from his spoech, to
entertain that opinion. (A laugh.)

"My schoolmaster called me a dunce and a fool,
.But at culfe I was always the cock of the school."
(Loud laughter.) But if a recollection of his own early
academi.-al triumphs did not restrain the noble earl from
using this language, I should have thought that his filial
piety would have had that effect. I should have thought
that he would have remembered how eminently splendid
was the academical career of that great and strong-minded
magistrate, the late Lord Ellenborough ; and, as I have
mentioned him, I will say that if there be in this world a
trying test of the fitness of men for the competition of
active life, and of the strength and acuteness of their prac-
tical faculties, it is to be found in the contests of the Eng-
lish bar. Look at Lord Mansfield, Lord Eldon, Lord
Stowell, Sir Vicary Gibbs, Lord Tenterden, and Lord
Lyndhurst. Take either the common law or the equity
bar. The present Lord Chief Baron was senior wrangler ;
Mr. Baron Alderson was senior wrangler • Mr. Justice
Maule was senior wrangler ; Mr. Baron Parke was emi-
nently distinguished at the university for his mathema-
tical and classical attainments ; Mr. Baron Platt was a
wrangler ; and Mr. Justice Coleridge was one of the most
einineet men of his time at Oxford. Then take the equity
bar. The Lord Chancellor was a wrangler ; Lord Justice
Sir George Turner was high in the list of wranglers ; all
the three Vice-Chancellors were wranglers ; Sir Lancelot
Shadwell was a wrangler, and a very distinguished scholar ;
my friend, Sir James Parker, was a high wrangler, and a
distinguished methematician. Can we suppose that it was
by mere accident they obtained their high positions? Is it
possible not to believe that these men maintained through
life the start which they gained in youth? And is it an
answer to these instances to say that you can point—as it
is desirable you should be able to point—to two or three
mon of great powers who, having neglected the struggle
when they were young, have afterwards exerted them-
selves to retrieve lost time, and have sometimes overtaken
and surpassed those who had got far in advancs of them ?
Of course there are such exceptions ; most desirable it is
that there should be, and that they should be noted, in
order to encourage men who, after having thrown away
their youth from levity or love of pleasure may be in-
clined to throw their manhood after it in. despair ; but the
general rule is, beyond all doubt, that which I have laid
down. It is this— that those men who distinguish them-
selves most in academical competition when they are young
are the men who, in after life, distinguish themselves most
in the competition of the world. Now, if this be so, I
cannot conceive that we should be justified in refusing to
India the advantage of such a test. I know there are
gentlemen who say—for it has been said—" After all,
this test extends only to a man's intellectual qualifications,
and his character is quite as important as his intellectual
qualifications." I most readily admit that his character
is as important as his intellectual qualifications ; but
unfortunately you have not quite so certain a test of a
man's character as of his intellectual qualifications.
Surely, if there are two qualifications you want a man to
possess, and which it is very important he should possess
—and if you have a test by which you can ascertain the
presence of the one qualification, but no decisive test by
which you can ascertain the presence of the other—your
best course is to use tho test you have, and to leave as
little as you possibly can to chance. This argument would
seem unanswerable unless some person should say that
the circumstances of a man's superiority in academical
competition raised a presumption that he was inferior in
practical judgment and manly rectitude; but if that can
be shown, then the consequence would go a great deal.
further than the rejection of my right hon. friend's pro-
posal. It would go to this, that we must reconsider the
whole system of English education, and remove our boys
from those places where they are trained to studies which
have a deleterious effect upon the character. (Hear.) There
is another point on which I am desirous to say a few words.
Some very able and judicious men, who are strongly of
opinion—as strongly as I am myself—that it is important
that there should be high intellectual tests for admission
to the Indian service, are jet of opinion that this would
be best managed, not by means of competition, but
by having examinations of a high standard, and re-
jecting every candidate who does not come up to that
standard. Now, all my experience and observation
lead me to believe that this is a complete mistake.
(Hear, hear.) The effect of competition is to keep up
the standard. Every man struggles to do his best, and
the consequence is that, without any effort on the part of
the examiner, under a system of competition the standard
keeps itself up. But the moment you sayto the examiner,
not " Shall A or B go to India ?" but " Here is A ; is he
fit to go India ?" the question becomes altogether a diffe-
rent one. The examiner's compassion, his good nature,
his unwillingness to blast the prospects of a young man,
load him to strain a point in order to let the candidate in
if he possibly can. That would bo the case even if we
suppose the dispensers of patronage to be left merely to the
operation of their own minds, but you would have them
subjected to solicitations of a sort which it would be im-
possible to resist. I speak of what I know, and of what
I have seen. I have known cases where public servants
have been under the painful necessity of pronouncing young
men, on examination, to be unfit for the public service.
What is the consequence? Tho candidate declares that
lie exert himself to the utmost, and that, if ho be
1? tried, no endeavour shall be wanting on his part to
discharge his duties satisfactorily. The father comes with
tears in his eyes ; the mother writes the most pathetic
and heartbreaking letters. I have repeatedly seen very
firm, minds shaken by appeals of that sort. Now, the
system of competition necessarily keeps allowsstad nothing of_ the kind, but it
tern constantly tends to bring it
while the other sys-
tem
and lower. I hope
most earnestly it will not b4upposed that in anything I
love paid I intoucl LA the =Oast degree to redact OA the

present civil service of India. Some of the dearest and
most valued friends I have in the world belong to that
service, and for the general spirit and character of that
service I feel the greatest respect and affection. I think
it wonderful that a body of men not picked or chosen, but
taken meraly at random— appointed because one is the son
of a director, because another is the nephew, of a director,
because another is related to some person who has been,
perhaps, of great service to a President of the Board of
Control at a contested election—(a laugh)—l think it won-
derful that men selected purely and avowedly on grounds
of a personal nature should have conducted themselves as
they have done, and have discharged duties of csreat diffi-
culty with so much success. It is, I think, a thing glorious
to our country that 800 men taken in that way—at random
—from among the gentlemen of England, should have con-
ducted themselves in general with such distinmuished abi-
lity and probity. That, however, is no reason for not mak-
ing the service better, if we can do so, and it is impossible
to deny that we have proofs that the service is not entirely
free from defects. How, indeed, could it be otherwise ?
You must necessarily have a certain number of inferior
men in a service formed in such a manner—in a ser-
vice consisting of 800 men, not selected on the ground of
ability. Among any BCO gentlemen whom you might select
at random there would be a certain number of men of every
superior powers ; the great majority might be not very
much above, nor very much below, the average of ability ;
but there must necessarily be, in every body of 800 mon,
not selected by some test of ability, a considerable number
—say a tenth, or, if you please, a twentieth—who fall de-
cidedly below the average of ability. Now, you can do
very well with this. You don't want all the clerks in the
War-office, or the Treasury, to be superior men. There is
plenty of routine business to be done in those offices which
a man of no great ability can transact. The men of small
ability do that routine business ; the men of groat ability
rise in position. But the case is different in the Indian
service. You have there BC3 men charged with the hap-
piness of 120,000,030 of people. There is not a single one
of those men upon whose capacity the happiness of a very
large number of human beings may not, in any situation,
depend. It is utterly impossible that one-tenth part or
one-twentieth past of that service can consist of incapable
men without causing great suffering to thousands of indi-
viduals ; and hero, I believe, we find the real explanation
of that which has appeared to me, from all I have been
able to learn, the most defective point of our system in In-
dia. I quite agree with the noble lord who moved the
amendment as to the evils of the judicial system in India.
(Hear, hear.) All the evidence leads me to that conclusion;
but permit me to say that this is no novelty. Those evils
was distinctly predicted before the bill of 1833 passed. I
heard them predicted myself. It was said by a very able
man :—" Your opening the China trade will, in one sense,
inflict great evils upon the people of India, unless you alter
the mode in which the patronage is dispensed. While
patronage is exercised as it is exercised, there will always
be a certain number of incapable men in the service. At
present they are sent into the trade ; your able men are
left for judicial, revenue, and political positions. If you
abolish the trade you will still have the same proportion of
incapacity in the service, but there will no longer be com-
mercial affairs to which you can appoint these men of small
ability, and you will send them to the judicial department."
The prophecy has been strictly realised, for the to judicial
department they have gone. (Hear, hear.) The evidence
before us leaves no doubt that though there are very °mi•
nently able and useful men—as able and useful as any which
the service comprises—in the judicial department, yet that
in general it is to that department that men deficient in
ability and energy are sent ; and I do not blame those who
have taken this course; for, shocking as it sounds in the ear
of an Englishman to say that the collection of taxes is more
important than the administration of justice, yet practically
I do believe that the happiness of the people of a district in
India depends more upon the ability of the revenue collec-
tor than oven upon the ability of the judge. (Hear.) Now,
what is the remedy for this ? Not, 1 think—as some
would propose—to strengthen the judicial department at
the expense of the revenue department,—not, in my
opinion, to pour out upon India—as has been suggested—
some scores of barristers from the back rows of the Court
of Queen's Bench, and to give them office as Indian judges.
The true remedy is to raise the general character of the
servics—(cheers)—and to take such measures that it may
be the highest degree improbable that any men who are
really incapable—any men who are below par—will find
their way into that service at all. (Hear, hear.) I believe
that the plan proposed by her Majesty's Government will
accomplish this end, and it is on that ground chiefly that
I give it my most sincere and cordial support. One word
more. It seems to me that this plan provides the best
means that can be imagined for effecting an object upon
which much has been said, and which I admit to be desir-
able—the gradual admission of natives to a share in the
higher offices of the Government. (Hear.) Legally, they
are now admissible ; practically, none have been admitted.
I do not blame those who do not admit them, for it is my
belief that there is not in India a young native whom it
would be a kindness to the native population to place, at
the present moment, in your civil service. I can conceive
nothing more unfortunate for the people of India than that
you should put into the civil service a native, because he
is a native, if he is to be the last man in that service,—a
man decidedly inferior in attainments to all the other
members of that service, and who would be looked doyvn
upon by his European colleagues. Above all, I cannot
conceive anything more pernicious than the suggestion
which has been made, that before you admit any native to
the service at all—before any-native has been even an assis-
tant collector or a judge, you should take some native and
appoint him a member of council. That, of all propositions,
would seem to me least likely to promote the real benefit
of the people of India. Under the proposed system, it
would depend on the natives themselves, and upon them
alone, at what time they should enter into the civil service.
As soon as any young native of distinguished parts should,
by the cultivation of English literature, have enabled him-
salf to be victorious in competition over European candi-
dates, be would, in the most honourable manner, by con-
quest, as a matter of right, and not as a mereeleemosyna.ry
itonation, obtain access to the service. (Hear, hear.) it
would then be utterly impossible for his Europeon fellows
to look down upon him ; he would enter the service in the
best and most honourable way ; and I believe that in
this mode, and in this mode alone, can the object which so
many friends of the native population have in view be at-
tained in a manner at all satisfactory. I differ, lam well
aware, as to the effect of the admission of natives to mash
situations, from a noble lord (the Earl of Ellenborough),
whom I mentioned a short time ago. That noble lord is
of opinion, not only that we ought to exclude natives from
office, but that even by encouraging them to study the
arts and learning of Europe we are preparing the way for
the utter destruction of our power in India. I must leave
it to the noble lord to explain what seems to mo a rather
singular inconsistency in his opinion. lam at a loss to
understand how, while utterly contemning education when
it is given to Europeans, he should regard it with dread
when it is given to natives. This training, we are told,
when given to a European, makes him a bookworm, a
twaddler, unfit for active life; but give the same education
to the liindoo, and he is to acquire such an accession of
intellect that an established government, 150,000 soldiers,
and the whole army and navy of England are to go down
before its irresistible power. Ido not pretend to explain
how the knowledge which is power in one race can be ab-
solutely impotent in another; but I can only say, for my-
self, with regard to this question, that, in my opinion, we
shall not secure or prolong our
,dominion in India by
attempting to exclude the natives of that country from a
share in its government, or by attempting to discourage
their study of western learning ; and I will only say,
further, that, however that may be, I will never consent
to keep them ignorant in order to keep them manageable,
or to govern them in ignorance in order to govern them
long. (Hear, hear.)
BLACKETT differed from Mr. Macaulay on the
subject of the double government, which was the principle
of the bill, and which, as the spring and fountain of the
Indian administration, affected all its results. He con-
sented to judge the existing system by its results, which
would discover, he said, that it possessed all the vices both
of a despotism and of a representative government, with-
out the advantages of either. All the shortcomings of the
existing system, he contended, could be repaired only by
concentrating the home government, subjecting it to the
utmost amount of responsibility in England. The changes
in the double government left it as before, so far as re-
garded responsibility. The check of au independent Court
of Directors was pro tanto, an advantage ; but the bill
stripped the Court of all its prerogatives, and transferred
them to the President of the Board of Control. He should
support the amendment.

Lord JOCELYN differed with pain from Lord Stanley,
against whose proposition ho felt compelled to vote. Ho
considered that we had sufficient evidence to frame a go-
vernment for India, and ho could not agree that delay was
a matter of no importance. Although he did not believe
that it would endanger our rule in India, or encourage in-
surrection, ho believed that it would weaken and paralyse
the Government at home and abroad ; that it would teach
the people of India to expect far more than they were likely
to gain, and that disappointment would create discontent.
Ho, therefore, thought that Parliament was bound to
legislate now ; and, with respect to the bill before the
house, he concurred in its principle, though he dissented
from some of its provisions. He defended the government
of India in the matter of the land assessment. The judicial
department he thought one of the great blots of that go-
vernment. Less had also been laid out upon education
than should have been ; but the Government had not neg-
lected this object. The sum expended upon public works
had been comparatively small ; but millions had been
wasted in unjust and unprovoked wars, for which the
Board of Control was to blame ; and he was not prepared,
therefore, to concede to the Adninistration of the day that
authority in India which had;produced such unfavourable
results in our colonies. Being friendly to a double system
of government for India, he, nevertheless, was sensible of
the defects of the present mode of electing the directors ;
but he could not approve of the change which the bill pro-
posed to make in the constitution of the Court. Ho dis-
approved likewise of the mode in whick it was intended to
deal with the patronage ; a portion of the military ap-
pointments, he agreed with Lord Stanley, should be given
to the servants of the East India Company.
Mr. OTWAY insisted that before Parliament legislated
upon this subject it was expedient that the wants and the
views of the natives of India should be ascertained. He
read descriptions of their wretched condition, and of the
cruelty and oppression to which they were said to be sub-
jected. He dwelt upon the alleged abuses in the adminis-
tration of justice in India, and the neglect of works of
public utility and necessity, and he complained of the in-
justice of imposing an irresponsible bureaucracy upon the
people of India. He should vote for the amendment.
Mr. ADDERLEY likewise supported the amendment,
which supposed, he said, necessarily that a continuance
bill should be passed to give time for the preparation of a
better measure than that before the house, which was al-
most universally disapproved. Mr. Macaulay, by confining
its defence to one clause of the bill, shirking all its great
principles, had virtually condemned the remainder. The
want of information could not be more clearly shown than
by the bill itself. Its avowed object was to secure the in-
dependence, by making it a one-third nominated council.
In order to obviate misapprehension, he recommended the
addition to the amendment of the words, " that it is ex-
pedient to continue the present act for two years."
Mr. MANGLES defended the Indian Government,
which, he maintained, in spite of excusable omissions and
shortcomings, was the best Government of a great depend-
ency the world ever saw. It was important that somebody
should be interposed between the local administration of
India and the Ministers of the Crown, with whom, how-
ever, resided the sole power of peace and war, for the ex-
ercise of which they were responsible. Ho then replied to
various statements made in the course of the debate with
reference to the land revenue, the Indian debt and finan-
ces, public works, and the alleged nepotism of the direc-
tors.
Mr. F. VILLIERS moved that the debate be adjournat
Lord J. RUSSELL expressed a hope that the discussion
would be brought to a close on Monday.
Mr. BRIGHT observed, that those who opposed the
measure were not responsible for its unnecessary introduc-
tion. For his part, he would not be sorry if the debate
were to terminate on Monday, but he could not undertake
that it would be so.
The debate was then adjourned to Monday,

The Tenants' Compensation (Ireland) Bill went through
committee, as did the Pimlico Improvement Bill.
The report on the Customs', &c., Acts was brought up
and received.

The Evidence Amendment Bill was read a second timo.

The Soap Duties Bill was read a third time and passed.
The Parish Vestries (No. 2) Bill went through committee.
The Common Lodging-houses Bill passed through com-
mittee and was reported.

ASSISTANT•JUDGE (MIDDLESEX) BILL.
The house resolved itself into a committee to consider a
resolution previous to the introduction of this bill. The
resolution was agreed to ; and, the house having resumed,
the report was brought up and the bill ordered to be
brought in.

FROM TIIE LONDON GAZETTE of YESTERDAY.

CROWN-OFFICE, JUNE 22.

MEMBERS RETURNED TO SERVE IN THIS PRESENT PAR-

LIAMENT.

Borough of Harwich.—John Bagshaw, of Cliff House,
Dovorcourt, in the county of Essex, Esq., in the room of
George Montagu Warren Peacocke, Esq., whose election
for the said borough has been declared void.