The Sun.
London, England, 1854-09-25 00:00:00

MR. MACGREGOR, M.P., AT GIASGOJJ".

Mr. Macgregor, M.P. for Glasgow, met a large num-
ber of his constituents on Thursday evening in the Mer-
chants' Hall in that city, for the purpOse. of laying before
them an account of his stewardship during the last ses-
sion of Parliament. The hon. gentleman was accom-
panied to the platform by Bailies M'Dowall and Mac-
gregor, Deacon Convener Craig, Councillor M'Adam,
Mr. Jas. Henderson, Dr."M'Gre,gor, Mr. G. M'lntosh,
Mr. T. M'Gregor, Mr. W. R. M'Phun, Mr. A. Paton,
and a number of other gentlemen. •
On the motion of Bailie M`Gregnr, Bailie D'Dowall
was called to the chair.

Bailie M‘DowALL, on taking the chair, said he did not
expect, two minutes ago, when be entered the hail below,
that this honour was to be conferred on him of presiding
at a meeting where one of the members of. the. city was
to address his constituents. Mr. Macgregor, with adl
mirable spirit, came before them annually as one of their
representatives, to detail what had been done in the House
of Commons, and he felt convinced they would listen with
great pleasure to his statements. They were all well
aware how diligent he h.ad been in the discharge of hi*
duties, and no one, he (Bailie M‘Dowall) could say, had
visited London, on the municipal businesi, of Glasgow,
but had been kindly received at all timea.by him, and
every assistance in his power rendered them. There was
a greatassemblage of talent in the House of Commons,
it was well known but he felt convinced that there was
no one better qualified for a seat there than their repre,.
sentative, Mr. Macgregor: (Cheers.) He. again thanked
them for the honour of being appointed Chairman, and
had no doubt they would be highly graiified by the
statement which would be laid before them. (Applause.)
Mr. MACGREGOR was received with loud cheering.
lie said—My friends and fellow citizens, your worthy
chairman has intimated in fitting terms the nature of
my present appearance among you. Since he had met
them, he said, a year ago, at the prorogation of Parlia-

ment, mighty and great and most important events had
taken place connected with the progress and civilisation
of the world. As to the proceedings of the late session
of Parliament there was only a meagre account to give.
They were mostly taken• up with the great question of
war and peace, and the best means of curbing that
ambitious tyranny which was endeavouring to sub-
vert the liberties of the world. Little else could be
thought of. Yet there was a considerable advance
made in the right direction. (Cheers.) He was happy
to say that five or six good bills had been passed in re-
ference to Scotland ; but he regretted the loss of one

intended greatly to liberalise the system of education
pursued in Scotland, and to make it as non-sectarian as
circumstances would admit of. We, in the House of
Commons, passed it, but it was unfortunately lost in
another place. This he was grieved at. He had many
letters from his constituents and different parts of Scot-
land, urging him to support this bill, and he never sup-
ported any one with greater pleasure. (Cheers.) Lord
John Russell's Reform Bill was a step in the right direc-
tion, though, not exactly such a measure as he would
have framed; but, if passed, it would have led to some-
, thing a great deal better. (Cheers.) Lord John
Russell, he believed, proposed and even withdrew the
Reform Bill in perfect good faith, and we must now
wait for a more favourable opportunity. He had not
much to say of other measures. He would now address
himself to the great question of the day—to that series
of events now progressing, pregnant with mighty results
to the fate of mankind. No year as been so remarkable
as 1854. A power whose characteristics were the sup-
port of tyranny, the robbery of its neighbours, the
slavery of its own subjects, was attempting to over-
throw liberty and crush progress and civilisation. In
the year 1689—the year aftor the revolution in Eng-
land, when the liberties of the nation had been secured

—the encroachments of the Czar of Russia began. At
that period he bad a population of 15,000,000. At the
death of Alexander, in 1825, the population had, by
unprincipled conquests, been increased to 58,000,000 ;
and at the present moment, by the same means, it had
58,000,000 of the family of mankind, who were held in
the most deplorable slavery and the lowest degradation.
For himself, he could sincerely say that he was opposed to
all wars, except when they had to fight for their liberties.
England hail carried on many great wars, all of which
he condemned. Since the time of William the Third,
wren the French war commenced, we begun a system of
accumulating a national debt. From the peace of Rhys-
wick to that of Utrecht, we had added 68,000,0001. to
the debt. We followed until 1816 the system then of
drawing upon posterity, but now we are acting on a dif-
ferent principle—we are paying the cost of war as we
proceed, making each year meet its own expense. We
haveno right to saddle posterity with our debts. We
must no longer tax people without consulting them.
(A laugh.) He reprobated all these wars, as they were
unjust. That which ended in 1713 was undertaken to
destroy Louis XIV. He placed his grandson on the
throne, however, in spite of us, and the war was ended
peace the pe° ITtreCht. We fought against the power
of Napoleon, and did, indeed, re-establish the Bourbons;
but waat is the consequence? All is overturned, for
another Napoleon sits on the throne of Frauce (Cheers.)
And it is fortunate for Europe that he rules over that
empire. The alliance between England arid France was
a blessel reality for the liberties and civilisation) of Eu-
rope. It was my good fortune (said Mr. Macgregor) to
be on terms of intimacy with Louis Napoleon when he
was an exile in this country. My house in London was
one of the few houses he visited. He (Mr. Macgregor)
did not boast of this ; but he valued the sentiments
Louis Napoleon entertained with regard to a perpetual
alliance with this country—an alliance which would
constitute the greatest epoch in the history of civilisa-
tion. He knew it was the desire of the Emperor to
bind the people of the two countries together by material
interests, and to do away with those commercial and
mercantile restrictions which had so long existed, and
of which the Bourbons, and especially Louis
were the greatest supporters. The Emperor of the
French knew it was the best policy he could pursue.
It would unite the people of France and England
in close intimacy with each other, for the advancement
of social progress, and the cultivation of all the virtues
which adorn humanity. He knew also that by so doing
he would bind them together by the strongest of all ties
—that of material interests. ,The French required many
of our products, we required many of theirs; and we
taxed their winss and many other articles too high. War
was a sad alternative, which only ought to be had re-
course to in defence of our liberties ; but, without a
single claim to justice, the tyrant, as he might call him,
of Russia, had taken possession of countries that were
sacredly allied to France and England by treaties. Tire
whole of this aggression and the pretensions and demands I
of the Czar had been submitted first to England and
France, and also to Austria and Prussia. But there
were only England and France who had earnestly taken ,
up this question. He admitted that England might not
have gone to war. The power that was in this most
dangerous position was Austria, consisting of antago-
ni:stic nations, speaking different languages, and all hat-
ing each other. This was the country that had most to
fear from its late suicidal policy, by inviting Russia to
come in to crush Hungarian liberties. That was the
country that ought to have dreaded the aggression ; but
Austria kept back. We saw clearly that if the Emperor of i
Russia had taken possession of the Danubian provinces
as Catherine 11. had done of the Crimea, he would soon
take possession of Constantinople ; that the Greeks—a
race he did not much respect—that really had inherited •
the vices and few of the virtues of their ancestors —he
meant the vices of mendacity and unfaithfulness—would
immediately join Russia. We saw that Asia Minor
would be occupied, that the commerce of the Danube
would be closed, and that in fact the civilisation of
the world would be retarded at least a century, if a stop
were not put to this terrible and aggressive despotism.
We resolved to protect Turkey—that we should establish
a balance:of power, which would arrest that dangerous n
aggression which had encroached over a great portion of
Europe. Since the accession of Peter the Great, the
Russian territory had increased five times. He could
state, upon undoubted authority, that it was the deter- •
mination of the Governments of England and of France
-4A. Voice, "Tell us of Scotland "] —that peace should
not be concluded till guarantees were given to both Go-
vernments that Russia should never attempt to invade
the territory of her neighbours, and that each nation
should be governed according to the opinion of its own
people. He supported the present Government because
he believed it to be the best that could be formed at the
time. Their policy was that of protecting ; and not of
interference with the internal affairs of other nations.
Turning to another subject----that of the policy of the
British Government in reference to foreign states—he
would mention that a citizen of Glasgow had written to
him lately to know if the statement was true that Go-
vernment promised to aid Austria to put down the
Hungarians or Italians, supposing they should attempt
at the present time to assert their liberty. Now, he em-
phatically declared tbat the British Government had no
such intention. He (Mr. Macgregor) had spoken lately
to a member of the Government on the subject, and said
to him, "If you bad given such an assurance I would
be the first man to move that you be impeached in the
House of Commons." (Cheers.) He replied, " We
would deserve impeachment if we attempted anything
of the kind." In fact, he knew, and could,
although not connected with Government, give any assu-
rance that the policy of the Government was only to
interfere to preserve the balance of power, and defend
the weak against the strong. Even in 1830 the Duke of
Wellington said that the policy of the Government was
to preserve the balance of power, and prevent the ag-
gression of one state on that of another, the very thing
we are doing at present. In 1848 I even met at Lord
Palmerston's the two Ministers who' came from Sicily.
We immediately said, if you establish an independent
Government yourselves—you, the people—we will ac-
knowledge that Government; will receive your Ministers;
will do that which we have one with regard to France
in relation to tire revolution of 1830 ; yes, we will do
regardhereafter, with to all countries, what we have
done in
1852 with regard to France. (Hear.) It is
our policy to acknowledge the Government that the
people of every country may establish for tiseniselves ;
and I wish to dispel the delusion that the Government
of this country would ever interfere in putting down the
liberties of any people. I trust that great communities
like Glasgow, and the people of tee British empire,
would rise at once and say to Ministers, you ought to
be impeached if you would do anything that would in-
terfere with the liberties that are the natural inheritance

of the human race. (Applause) We have some intelli-
gence to-night from the Crimea. I believe that intelli-
genceiEbnentiie.ltvaheniesditritl oeaplrloeel
sdr
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iseisovwi
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rivers that flow into it—until then, we will never have
any security against the barbarism of Russia, I think
that a very few days will put you in a state of intelli-
gence that will fulfil that which I now tell you, that
when the possession of the Crimea and Sebastopol, and
the destruction of the whole Russian fleet in the Black
Sea shall have taken place, you will fully cripple the
advance of that barbarous government, and I believe
that you will then gain more by the increase of corn-
merce than the taxes which will come out of you during
the present year. With regard to Austria, I know very
well that there is a very large Russian party at Vienna.
I believe.that party invited the. Russians to come into
Hungary, and I believe Prince Metternich admitted that
it was the most suicidal, policy Austria could have
adopted ; but still Austria will probably, for her own
safety, adhere to the Western Powers. With respect
to Prussia, I regret to say that the conduct of that go-
vernment is vacillating, and most dangerous to Prussia
itself. It resembles the policy that country pursued
from the time of the treaty of Bask till the fatal
events which enabled Napoleon to occupy Berlin and
the whole of the Prussian dominions. But of the
final success of this war, the re-establishment of peace
in Europe,the adearitages to human freedom, and the
enlargement of the repreeentation of the people in ma-
naging their own affairs, whether in Austria, whether
in Germany, whether in Italy, or elsewhere, I have not
the smallest doubt. I rest my confidence mainly upon
the greatest of all events that have occurred—the alliance
between France and England. (Great applause.) This
alliance is so powerful that the rest of Europe, and all
its tyranny, and despotism, and aristocratical preten-
sions can never withstand it. (Cheers.) And I look on
the fruits of that alliance with regard to civilisation,
with regard to commercial freedom and intercourse, as
the greatest event that has occurred since the breaking
down of the Roman empire. (Loud cheers.) Having
made these observations with respect to the events
passing in Europe, I would now wish to draw your
attention to that which more, in a domestic and familiar
way, embraces ourselves. But here I must dwell on a
great family, speaking the same language, having the
same origin, and generally the same worship with our-
selves, whose ancestors lie buried in the same graves,
and with which the progress of civilisation is still more
connected than all I have stated to you. I had a
remarkable observation made to me by a sagacious
obs•_rver while travelling with the American minister
the other day. We were speaking about the great
events of the day, and the accomplished person to
whom I allude said that Russia and England (that
is, the Anglo-Saxon race) have been the greatest
aggressors in the world. The Russians have been
aggressors, spreading and extending despotism ; the
Anglo-Saxon race have been aggressors, spreading civi-
lisation and commercial intercourse over the universe.
I consider the Americans, who have the same language,
the same worship, and who have our songs, our history,
traditions, and our romances, in common, I say that
these are the people of all others with whom I should
like to sympathise ; because, in the first place, they feel
much more keenly anything that is said against them by
us than by any other people in the world. (Applause.)
In the next place, our material interests are so much
connected that about one-fourth of. our commerce is
with the United States. I wish to make these expres-
sions with regard to that country, with a view to pre-
vent future quarrels and jealousies, because as Lord J.
Russell once wrote to me, having once settled all boun-
dary questions, England and America may live in peace
ever after. (Repeated cheers.) When I was at the Board
of Trade, a treaty was suggested by Sir Robert Pcel
similar to one which has since been concluded—l mean

the treaty with regard to fisheries, and the interchange,
duty free, between the respective ports of the United
States and the British colonies of North America, so that
I believe we have entered into a new era of peace with the
United States, as well as with France, and that we are

now at the commencement of an era with France

which will bring us so close by material interests to-

gether, that, taking Scotland, England, and Ireland,
taking France, taking America, we are now at the head
of the civilisation of the world, and may defy all the des-
potisms and the tyrannies that exist in every other ,
part of the universe. Now, gentlemen, I tlzink I have
ventured as far as either your Faience ought to bear, or
as might have been necessary, with regard to our foreign
alfaml. I want to stir one or two words with respect to
the taxation of the last season ; and when I speak of
that taxation, we camnto the resolution that it was much
more vase En' us to pay the expenses of thOyea.rduring
the year, and be done with it, than to add to the already
too heavy National Debt of this country. I know. that
v the taxation for the present year must he ery Wgli, but
I believe ours was the wisest course of policy ; and in
ono of the addresses of one of the greatest men I have
ever read of, George Washington, he says—" Never
make a war unless you can pay the expense within the
year." (Ilear, hear.) You have not the power to con-
sult posterity with regard to the justice of the war, and
you ought never to tax people without consulting them.
It was on these grounds that we made up our minds in
the House of Commons to raise the expenses within the
year. I believe that it will come back to your
pockets by extending the commerce of the country,
and that it will he seen that the Government have
done right in acting as they have done. • (Hear.)
I have next to speak of our . own internal affairs.
With regard to Scotland, we Piave certain complaints,
and many people wish to say a great deal about Scottish
grievances. Well, I too have got Scottish grievances to
complain of ; but I tell you frankly, I will not join a
mere league with regard to Scottish grievances, but
whenever I have a grievance put before me I will enter
into it with as much ardour as ever a Wallace or any-

body else did. (Cheers and laughter.) My first Scot-
tish grievance•is this--that we are in Scotland ina-
dequately represented in the government of the coun-
try. We want that which I long since said was ab-
solutely necessary for Scotland, which was provided
for by the Act of Union—l mean a Minister of State
for Scotland, that will not be a mere representative of the
Parliament House of Edinburgh, but a representative of

the whole of Scotland; to attend his duties in the Cibi-

net, and whenever bills are brought forward or a real
grievance complained of; and I will never be content
to have a mere Lord Advocate—much as I re-
spect my friend the present Lord Advocate, who istolll-
pelled by prudence and interest to spend two-thirds of
his time in pleading cases in the session courts of Edin-
burgh. (Hear.) But I have been told in London,
" Why, yon are very comfortable in Glasgow—you have
a larger city than Manchester. When Manchester feels
a grievance it rises and makes a great noise ; but you
are very easy in Glasgow—you never complain ; and
when there is no complaint, against grievances, we think
they are not worth attending to. We know that the
real power of Scotland lies in the industry, commerce,
shipping trade, and riches of places like Glasgow, and yet
Glasgow does not complain." Now, I say Glasgow
ought to complain of real grievances, and not to join in
imaginary ones, such as having a hat on the head of a
unicorn—an animal that never existed. (Hear.) No,

no ; complain and represent strongly your real griev-
ances ; be properly represented in the Government of the
country ; when you have bills to bring forward involving
the interests of the country, say we want a minister re-
presenting Scotland. Ireland has her Lord-Lieutenant,

Secretary—of State, with the same salary as the Prime
Minister of England—her Under-Secretary and her At-
_ _

torney-General. Scotland has a Lord Advocate—a very
good, a most able and high-minded man, but he is a
practising advocate, who has taken his fees at the Par-
liament-house in Edinburgh, and who cannot attend
with the dignity of a minister at the Briti-h Parliament,
or as a member in the Cabinet. Another grievance is
this : since the union of the kingdoms, the expenditure
of Scotland has been so small as to be unexampled, be-
cause the expenditure of most countries amounts
to the whole incomes of those countries. There is not
a country in all Europe where the expenditure has not
amounted to the taxation of the country. What has
been the taxation of Scotland ? I.do not go on my own
authority up to the year 1804—I go upon the authority of
Sir John Sinclair, who, in his "History of the Revenue,"
shows that three-fourths of the revenue collected by
Scotland has been remitted to England and paid into the
English treasury, that one-fourth, notwithstanding the
rebellions of 1715 and 1745, has been sufficient to pay the
whole expense of Scotland, military, judicial, and miscel-
laneous. In another country—l mean Ireland—the ex-
penditure has always exceeded the revenue from two to
twelve millions. I believe that bad government was
the cause of it in Ireland, where matters are now
far better managed. We get back none of what we pay
in Scotland. Our post-office, our custom-house, every-
thing, in fact, connected with the collection of the re-
venue in Glasgow, especially the post-office, is in a most
disgraceful condition, and that is one of the evils I com-
plain of, and about which you ought to exert your-
selves ; and depend upon it that if we labour under
anything like evils or gram-ices, it is our own fault ; for
when I look at what has been done with regard to Man-
chester, a town that did not deserve much of the Go-
vernment, at least not so much as has been done—they
got their grants for their parks, and almost every thing
they wished—they awed the Government
through their
steady and stern perseverance ; and if you want any-
thin' that is just you must bestir yourselves, you
must make public manifestations, you must enable
your members who represent you in Parliament to
have the authority of your power before you can get
anything done by them. If you act feebly yourselves
you render your members also feeble. I should bo
a much more efficient member representing a rotten
borough which was once offered me in Devonshire
than representing the people of Glasgow,
other unless
people appear strong at my back. The
ques-
tion, as far as I am aware, that remains to be explained
icy me is a vote which I gave with regard to thebill
()re-
gulating the University of Oxford. I voted then in 13-
position to my colleague and to some members repre-
senting Scotland. I voted on this ground. I had a
representation made to me that a very meritorious
grant wan made to the 'University of 121-10PW_ &Mat

worthy man, a Mr. Snell, who owed great obligations
to the University himself. That was done for the p pose of enabling this University to appoint certain par.
sons to go up to the University of Oxford and acquilm,
honours there, and it is perfectly true that under that
grant great men did obtain honours at the University of
Oxford, and none greater than Adam Smith. Mr. Glad.
stone thought fit to introduce a clause into this bill fin,
the purpose of abolishing the appointments under similaz
grants in England. The proofs that he adduced to The
were strong, and I will only adduce one, the Schooil of
Winchester. He found that the appointments there
were actually jobbed by trustees who had never bee*
there ; and said' to me that he must interpose a clause
against such abuses. I said—lf you do not make a re.
servation in the case of the Snell grant, I must bring my
whole force to bear against you. Lord John Russell
and Mr. Gladstone both generously admitted that the
circumstances of the Snell grant, as affecting the Univer-
sity of Glasgow, were so different from all • the other;
that they would admit a provision into the act, so that
without the consent it could not come under the restric-
tion. I therefore voted with the Government in regard
to the Education Bill. I believe I never gave a more
conscientious vote in my life, and I wished for this op.
portunity to explain what I have dune. (The hon. mein.
ber then resumed his seat amid loud applause.)
Mr. Bums, writer, rose in the body of the hall, and
said—The hon. member has alluded to an association of
which the Earl of Eglinton is said to be the head. As
a humble member of that association, I take the liberty
of asking the hon. member a question. He has referred
in the course of his speech to the serious disabilities
under which Scotland labours, and has told us that Scot-
land never will get redress of this until she makes a
strong and united remonstrance against them. I would
ask him in what shape should Scotland make that re-
monstrance ?

Mr. MACGREGOR said—l rejoice in having questions
put to me, because I do not consider myself more than
other persons influenced by the infirmities incident to
humanity, and for me to say what would be the best and
most efficient way to make the remonstrance would
be, perhaps, a presumption on my part. But I
stated one of our principal grievances—that is, that
we are not properly representedin
the ministry of this
takes fees from any Dandle
country—that we cannot be properly represented by an
Advocate who .prudently
Dinmont, or anybody else, at Edinburgh ; and that
Scotland itself should make declarations, and never rest
satisfied until it has obtained its unbounded right, a
Secretary of State. I say the people of Scotlrucd, and
the commercial and county constituents should them.
selves, every one of them, separately and distinctly,
make these representations, and make their members
advocate the redress of those grievances in Parliament.
(Cheers.) But Ido not wish to go back to those feudal ideas connected with the barbarous history of our coun-
try. I want to talk of the real grievances which affect
our civilisation ; and, above all, to prevent any Govern.
ment increasing that tendency to centralisation which
has been manifested for so long a time. I want that the
municipalities of Scotland should retain their own self.
governments ; and this is a question which affects your
civil. religious, and political liberties. These are the ways
by which I wish to effect these objects. Let the muni-
cipal governments of the different cities and towns ex-
press their opinions, as some towns in England have
done. But I do not wish to have any political league,
although I will support some things which political
leagues may advance. Let Glasgow, Edinburgh, Dun-
dee, Aberdeen—let the great representatives of the
wealth and industry of the country bestir themselves
and exhibit their grievances, and say we not only de.
mand it of Parliament and the Government, but we will
not return any member to the house of Commons who
will not advocate the removal of all these grievances
which I have mentioned. These are the only practical
remedies : let them come through the representations of
the people.

Mr. BURNS inquired if the bon, member was a mem-
ber of the Corn Law League ? If so, what objection had
he to the principle of a league. Was it because the u-
sociation he referred to was of the character of a league
that he objected to join it I

Mr. MACGREGOR—I object to it as a league, and to
join it as a league, because it proposes certain things
which I consider inconsistent with the times—feudalism
being gone for ever. I could not be a member of the
Corn Law League in virtue of an office I held at the
time ; but that league acknowledged that they owed
as much to my free-trade exertions as to and• ether man
in the country. (Loud cheers.)
Mr. 131.7nzes inquired again—Did the association to
which you have alluded ever make the putting of a hat
on the head of a unicorn a point of Scottish grievance
Mr. MACGREGOR said that really from his own know-
ledge he could not say. But a representation of the
animal in this condition was a very prominent object in
the engravings which had been sent to him on the sub-
ject. (Laughter.)

Mr. BURNS I have noticed that you have used the
term "England" throughout your address when speak.
ing of the Government, as if Scotland did not exist—is
that correct !

Mr. INLkCGREGOR owned that he had often used the
word " England" when referring to the British empire,
and explained it on the ground of usage or inadver-
tence. He admitted that it should be called " United
Kingdom," as including Scotland, its proper name since
tae Union. He always upheld the idea that Scotland
W3S entitled to he recognised as great portion of the em-
pire, as ;•be was an important part of it. It was the
lib,,ral majority of Scotland that turned out the late
D,rbv Government. At the division tam Derby peaty .
had 15 of a ina j•,rity from all England ; o? 5 from ali
England and Ireland ; but from all England and Ireland
with Scotland the scale was turned, and they were in
19 of a minority—(cheers)—so you see here that the
liberill majority of Scotland turned out the Derbyites,
and it is to the Scotch members, whatever the present
minisers may think of Scotland, that they owe the fact
of their being in office. (Loud cheers.)
Mr. WINK, accountant, asked if the hon. member
could assign any reason why 200,0001. should be paid
to the police in London and Dublin, and nothing to the
police in Scotland, and whether he had voted ,against
that appropriation ?

Mr. MACGREGOR did not recollect whether he had
been present when that question had been discussed or
not, but had always objected to such a principle of par-
tiality. His vote, should such a case again occur,
would be guided by the circumstances of the case.
Mr. WINK asked if he would vote against the
160,000/. given out of the national funds to the chari-
ties of London and Dublin, seeing that Scotland got
nothing ?

Mr. MACGREGOR said it would depend on each case,
as it came before him, how he would vote. He bad
always protested against all partiality, and would make
every effort to get justice done to Scotland. But re-
garding the English and Irish charities, he must say
that he would not embitter the lives of individuals, per-
haps 70 or 80 years of age, by withdrawing support that
had once been allowed them.

A gentleman in the body of the hall asked—How did
you vote with regard to Forbes Mackenzie's Bill ?

Mr. MACGREGOR—With respect to that bill I did not
vote at all, hut I spoke against the bill, and I spoke at
the same time against the excessive consumption of
ardent spirits in Scotland. I hold that ignorance and
immorality cannot be alleviated by act of Parliament.
but by elevating the tastes of the people and by substi-
tuting more innocent recreation. He further stated
that he would not ♦ote for a repeal of the bill until it
got a fair trial.
Mr. Bnowx, among other matters, demanded an ex-
planation why Mr. Macgregor had been present at only
70 out of 270 meetings of the house?
Mr. MACGREGOR said that he bad never been absent
when any point of importance to the country was being
discussed ; but that when the house was occupied with
trifling matters, he considered his time better spent is
corresponding with his constituents in Glasgow.
A CONSTITUENT, or at least a man in the middle of
the hall, then asked Mr. Macgregor how be voted re-
garding Forbes Mackenzie's Bill ? (Laughter, great
applause, and hissing.)
Mr. MACGREGOR—So far as be remembered he did
not vote at all. But he spoke against the bill ; and be
spoke at the same time and deplored the excessive con-
sumption of spirits. in Scotland. His views were, that
there must be certain regulations ; but, at the same
time, no act of Parliament will make a people religious
or moral, so long as they remain in ignorance. Igno-
rance and the want of recreation for their health would
make them seek indulgence of a gross kind. -Unless
they elevated their tastes and enlightened their minds,
legislation for the suppression of drinking would be in
vain.

Another CONSTITUENT asked if Forbes Mackenzie's
Bill could be amended or repealed ? (A laugh.)
Mr. MACGREGOR could not tell. He was not thy
master of the minds, intellects, and inclinations of 654
members of the House of Commons. (A laugh.) Ile
was only one member ; but let Glasgow exert itself, and
it might get. according to its population,
members. (Cheers.)
f
The same CoNSTITURNT—WiII you vote for the Meal
of the bill?six or eigUL

Mr. MACGREGOR—I will not vote for the repeal of
the bill till it gets at least a fair trial. (Tremendous
cheering.)
Mr. THOMAS BROWN now got upon s bench, and then
catechised the member tightly for loving Louis Napo-
leon so well, after he had destroyed the Roman republic.
And how they were to believe what Mr. M. had told
them regarding non-interference with Hungarians or
Italians, when Great Britain and France quietly stood
by, while Austria compelled Omer Paella to turn some
of his officers to the right-about.
his statement was,
Mr. MACGREGORt
hreplied at
Romanlarge ;r
ebpuutbltiha
eweasesednicesh eodf
before aclepresideniti—betrhtyat,
a
erenotfi was m
tf or constitutional
proof of it was that they had murdered Rossi,
ev
nennintosui were
Napoleon
thend said
one
oue of the greatest men of his times. It was not true
that Omer Pacha's officers had been meddled with. As
to himself, he had been present at every important divi-
sion in the House of Commons ; but he did not think it
his duty to attend at every trifling affair, when there
were sometimes seven divisions about a contemptible
local bill. He did not lie in wait for these divisions,
especially as he had often to write from 40 to 50 letters
every day in reply to those of his constituents in Gists.
go w—no easy affair to manage.
After some further questioning and answering, during
which the said Mr. Brown did not appear to be either:
satisfied or convinced,
Councillor MACADAM moved a vote of.thanks to Mr.
Macgregor, to which he considered him fully entitled,
though it were for nothing else than his ooming annually
to give an account of his stewardship.
The motion ,was put and carried by acclamation, and
Mr. Macgregor having suitably acknowledged the com-
pliment, a vote of thanks win giTora to the chairman,
1 when the anotirig &wed. - -