The Sun.
London, England, 1838-07-18 00:00:00

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amendments of which he had given notice. He would briefly
state their ohje;:t to The House. They proposed to enable the
Revising Barristers to reserve any doubtlul cases of claims
to registration, for the purpose of taking the Epinion of the
Courts of law upon them. This was the tendency of the
annendments, and he was satisfied they would have a very be-
neficial effect.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL opposed the clauses.
Sir E SUGDEN supv,rted the anises.
After a few words faun Mr. WARBURTON anti Mr. PRAED.
Dr. NICHOLL would not press the clauses to a divi_
sion ; but he should, on the bringing up of the amended Re-
port, move them again, and take the E ens° of the House en
the subject.
The clauses were accordingly negatived without a division.
The schedules were then agreed to, with verbal amend-.
ments, and the House resumed.
POST-OFFICE .BILL.
Ti,e CHANCELLOR of the EXCHF. QUER moved the
second reading Of the Post-office 13iil.
Colonel :ABTHORP objected to the wituber of Com-
missions appointed by her Majesty's Ministers, and charged
tnem with a gross breach of principk, in exhibiting such a
total disregard to economy.
The CHANCELLOR of th,3 EXCHEQUER said tho
change was called for by the multiplication of railroads and
the increased facilities to communications throughout
the country ; and, under such circurostanees, he hoped the
House would allow this 1:',11 to be read a second time.
The House then divid rd, and the numbers were—
For the second reading
Against it ..

aorit
The Bill way then read y a second time, and ordered to be
committed.

The Fin•js and Recognizances (Ireland) Bill went through
a Comm:Mee, and the Report was ordered to be read on
Thursr',Ay.
OR the motion for bringing up the Report of the Commit-
tee t.'a the Schools (Scotland) Bill,
lilr. GREEN hoped that the Government would not per-
severe with this measure; but, at all events, he felt it to be his duty to move that thu Report be brought up the day three
months.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
he would not be discharging his duty if he were to abandon
this Bill.
Alt. HUME thought it would be better to allow this Bill
to stand over until the next Session, if the object of the Go-
verament were, to give satisfaction to the people of Scotland.
Mr. R. STEUART supported the motion.
After a few words from Air. HOPE,
Mr. GILL ON said, if the money was to be placed at the
disposal of the Established Church of Scotland, he would feel
bound to persevere in his opposition.
The gallery was then cleared for a division, and the num-
bers were—

37

For the motion
For the amendment
Majority for the motion
—25
The report was then brought up, and the Bill ordered to be
engrnssed, and read a third time on Thursday next.
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and
the House adjourned at a Quarter past One o'Clock.

HOUSE OF LORDS, JULY 17.
The Loan CIIANcELLoR took his seat on the Woolsack at
Five o'clock.
A Message from the Commons brought up several private
Bills.
On the motion of Lord PORTMAN the Dean Forest
Mining Bill was read a third time and passed.
Lord REDESDALE presented a petition from Worfield,
not
in Salop, praying that any surplus of Church Revenues might
be applied to any but ecclesiastical purposes. Also a peti-
tirn froen the Archdeacon and Clergy of Cumberland against
certaiet clauses in the Benefices Pluralities Bill.
ENTAILS (SCOTLAND) BILL.
On the motion of the Earl of HADDINGTON, the
Scotch Entails Bill went through Committee.
CANADA.
The Earl of WINCHILSE A
moved for a return of the
number of appointments made by Lord Durham since his arrival
in Canada, with the names of the persons appointed, the dates
of the appointments, and the amount of their salaries. He believed
triers was no objection to these returns. The Noble Earl then
said that as a racket had arrived last night from Canada, he
wished to ask the Noble Viscount opposite whether he
had received any information with respect to the appoint.
ment of Mr. Gibbon Wakefield to the situation of land sur-
veyor? He also wished to ask whether the Government iad
received any information of the resignation of Sir JohnCol-
borne, and whether that resignation was in consequence of his
requiring an addition to the militaryforce
now
in Canada ?
question,
Lord MELBOURNE said informationnoato
had
d been received
relative to the appointment alluded A to.
theother
he thought the Noble Lord would perceive it was one which
the Government ought not to answer.
The Earl of WINCHILS EA thought their Lordships, as
well as the country, ought to know whether that distinguished
officer bad resigned, and whether his resignation had taken
place in consequence of his requiring additional military force?
Lord MELBOURNE said, that if it were thought proper
to press the question, he had no wish to shrink from an
answer. That distinguished officer certainly had requested
that an arrangement should be made by which be might
be relieved from the command of the troops. With respect
to the other question, the Government did not think there was
any thing in the present state of affairs in Canada that would
require all aUglnentation of force.
The Marquis of L the OND SPAIN.
ONDERRY, not seeing the Noble
Wishedat
ask the Noble Viscount opposite (Melbourne) whether
Noble Earl had, under the correction of the Noble
Viscount, changed the opinions which he had expressed the
other night.—( Great laughter,
Viscount MELBOURNE You had better ask that ques-
tion when the Noble Earl is present.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY nee sorry the Noble
Earl vies not in his place, and the more so if his absence arose
from illness, for undoubted)
to make him ill.— s- y she Noble Earl had had enough
( Laughor.) e , hoever, anxious to
learn from the Noble 'Viscount if itwas were true a that vessel
called the " Athol" was then loading with 1,000 stand
of arms, and if it wee the intention of Government to send
Stores of supplies te the Spanish Government, before they had
received the meet satisfactory declara.tion, in consequence of
the address of the other House of Parliament to her Majesty,
as to the settlement of the claims of the Auxiliary Legion.
Viscount MELBOURNE said the first part of the question
of the Noble Marquis had better be addressed to the Noble Earl
l'hen in his. place. With respect to tho second part of the
eleestion a Commission had been issued for enquiring into
those elsims ; that Covnmission was now being prosecuted.
The Noble Lord might depend upon it, the
Government
Ivould act up to their professions, and use every effs)rt to obtain
a satisfartor adjustment of tose claims. Tis, howevr, did
not imply that the Government would change the policye which
it had always adopted with regard to Spain.
The JUVENILE OFFENDERS' BILL.
Marquis of LANSDOWNE, in moving that their
Lordships do resolve themselves into Committee on this Bill,
observed that there had been a great increase of crime
attlicitter juvenile offenders throughout Europe, especially in
soy's;•e4nglaaf It was the intention of Government to erect build-
;R' uvenile offenders, so that they
might be separated
rare adults.
a, The Duke of RIC HNIOND approved of the theny
u:ett4ush there Were one or. two points on which should
LoAfter a few
mendmente in Committee.
observations from the Earl of DEVON, their
.ed,''hilis went into Committee or, the Bill.
eh:tu Duke of R ICFIMOND then proposed an amendment
the Chaplain to Iseae
out pointed should be a clergyman with-
ehee,., `:.'lre of souls. He thought the whole time of the
reeed:int,.eliould be occupied in endeavouring to improve the
The r the young offenders.
imp), Itlsrquis of LANSDOWNE had no objection to the
sett -.l"''Pt of the Noble Duke, which was accordingly in_
ea in the clause.
theod Isy N D el URS l' su7grsted the propriety of deferring
discussion of this Bill.
T'rho Marquis of LANSDOWNE would not object to a
ifpocemerit ; hut he tholzht that the liiil should now go
t''''sigh Committe pro Anna, and any further amendments
'eight he taken ..n the report.
Lord Bile UG H A M was glad that the Noble Marquis had
'iensented to its postpuncinent.
I 4 .I:he Marluis of SALISBURY wished to take that oppor-
,
t'l'""Y ^I t.npres.ing on the Noble Marquis the importance of
Entry the emigration of juvenile effendess. He was
Bill. Y at no provisions having that tendency appeared in the
'41?:• `lie Marquis of L ANSDOWNE fully concurred in the
711 thee of the object; but there were various Societies
ow c t ‘-ere successfully pursuing that object, and it bad been
,;!elle advisable not at present to interfere with their exertions.
1 he repnrt was ordered to be received on Tuesday next.
es INTERNATIONAL COPYRIGHT BILL.
oil the Went rnreion of the Marquis of LANSDOWNE this Bill
through a .
The Duke , f •ehrnrnittee praArma.
'e'en had t ti;), NI ELLINGTON hoped that due regard had
.• riehta of the Universities.
The lee (1
f IT !lrqU'S of L ANS DOWN Eb I' 1 that the Bill did
net a. alk thterfer • ' i e ,cvec able se eatisey e with those privileges, and that he should be
i t'e Nehie\TDruke on that subject.
A PPOINTeI is
Lisee evHAR.Nc,‘,,,r OF MAGISTRATES. .
'enserther At tee end of the We:lkdthat til7sitrbil:oNrdnthleipFs
Priced. the Noble Earl, connected with the
before
county of York, had
rentved for returns of correspondence cennected with the inser-
-I_,trn of eet tele names int the commission of the peace for the
re treugh el Lesds, and he (Lord Wharneliffe), should not have
tt,h,eught of following up that motion had it not been for eer-
ie prophitions stated by the Chancellor of the Duchy of
114,1
. neaster, at which he had been greatly astonished and which,
If.theY had been allowed to pass unnoticed, might'be produc-
%hetti: cf great injury. The case with respect to the West Riding
county he would endeavour to explain, and then they
'''‘ nhi understand the grounds on which he believed the in-
e'ci.t.t.ion oftliose names icto the commission, by the Lord Chan-
Fre!e. hut. nos 4. step which had been adopted merely for the pur-
ne intreeueing persons of a certain class of political
:,r"loes. 11c v.ould observe in the first place, that Leeds was
th3nrclogh consi,ting of a great number of townships, and by
fife
Municipal Collet:rations Act it had a separate commission
. the peace. On the passing of that Bill magistrates had beett
kil:Pointel oho nese to the whole duty within the borough, for
pe',"Uotv resssistlates bad no power to interfere. On the 23d
ttit'. tele. lie bad brought before the House several appoint.
111,255 of Alagestrates, and he had endeavoured to show that
ei,7eteepoirernents had been used entirely for party purposes,
he,inteett the great body of persons appointed had been so ap-
"l pointed on account of their politics, and to the exclusion of

proper .perenWs. Now, it so happened that twenty-two had
been %Wiled for the commission, seventeen Of whoel
bile class of politics, and of thC t'i're it was known
that four would not art. Now did lint know that those facts
by themselves woald conaute a just ground of complaint ; if
there had not been other men who had acted, as megistratet
efficiently for many years, he sheuild nolt hive feted fault with
the appointments ; but he did Vlscaris that the exclusion of Ma-
gistrates who had )ripen lasi-action, and who were eekh`deas
ledged to has iktKits the duties properly. and learAilleil'ea af-
forded a leetfttly just ground of e'o'cpkartita He now came
to the appointment of Magiairiko In the West Riding. The
population of Leech Nit-en was very great, was to be takenout of that set !t}@West Riding, because the appolrettient tit
Mviettates for that division of the count) hied no etiVrenee td
the population of Leeds, which tired reparide eowfilis•
sion. He should show to'their her ships the state of the Ma-
gistracy in that divitiota, Ilia the actual state of the business.
The Petty Seaslons trete held at Leeds one day every week—
on Tuestley, and the business which was then done ahem
in places contiguous to Leeds. The number of cases of
every description which had come before the Magistrates be-
tween February 1837, and February 1838, was about 200,
which amounted to about four cases weekly. It was evident
then, that in point of fact there was no necessity for a greater
number of Magistrates. At that time there were eighteen Ma-
gistrates. There were fourteen persons in the commission, of
whom eleven attended regularly, and three were qualified to
act but did not attend, The remaining four in the commis-
sion had not telt% out their qualification, and of those who
were qualified and did not act, and those who were not quali-
fled) six were of political opinions differing from the majority.
Then came the new commission, and he °begged here to say
that his Noble Friend (the Earl of Harewood) would
have been quite ready to attend to any such application,
whenever and wherever it could be shown that new magistrate s
were required, and he could bear witness to the fact that his
Noble Friend had put into the commission several persons ad-
verse to himself in politics, merely on the ground that more
magistrates were required. There was no reason, then, for
saying that if any application had been made it would not have
been attended to. But no application had been made—
(Cheers)—to his Noble-Friend at all, except the brother of
the Lord Chancellor, after persons had been named. It was,
however, curious enough, that his Noble Friend had been
told by a person in Leeds that he must be prepared
for such a proceeding ; and the expression which was
used was, that an intrigue nn; going on to introduce
certain persons in the commission adverse to him in
politics. But, with the exception of that intimation, the
first time his Noble Friend heard of the matter was upon
the receipt of the letter from the Lord Chancellor, asking if he
had any objection to the insertion of the names. Now, he
wished to know on what representations these persons had been
named at all ; whether any blame had been imputed to the
former Magistrates—whether there had been any complaints
of difficulty in the discharge of the business of the county, or
whether those persons had not been named on the recommen-
dation of some parties whose object it was to advance a par-
ticular interest in that town. He would now advert to the
propositions laid down by the Lord Chancellor and the Chan-
cellor of the Duchy of Lancaster. It had been stated by
those Noble Lords that they considered' it to be their duty, if
they found in the commission a certain number of persons of
one class of political opinions, to introduce others of different
opinions, so as so create a proper balance on the bench of
Magistrates; and on what ground ? Why, they had said that
it was not in human nature for persons to be satisfied with the
decision of those, all of whom held opinions differing from
their own. Now, he believed no such thing—( Hear, hear.)
With respect to the principle of putting Magistrates of diffe-
rent political opinions into the Commission, so as to ensure a
balance of Whigs and'Tories, he wanted to know where it
was to end?—( Hear, hear.) Suppose the Noble and Learned
Lord had doctored and corrected the Commission as he
pleased, he might then have to leave, and another Noble and
Learned Lord would succeed to his place ; was that Noble
and Learned Lord to pursue the same course 2—( Hear, hear.)
Was ho again to doctor and correct the:Comnaission as to him
might appear convenient ? That was the doctrine of the
Noble and Learned Lord on the WoOlsack; but his Noble
Friend the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster had carried
it still further; for he had not been satisfied without declaring
that if he formed a Commission of Peace, in which any par-
ticular religious opinions greatly preponderated, he should
feel it his duty to introduce persons of different religious
opinions to counterbalance the former body of Magistrates.—
( Hear, hear.) Now he protested in that place against-those
doctrines.—( Loud cheers.) With respect to this particular
case nothing could have been so easy, if any persons thought
themselves entitled to be placed on the Commission, as to
have applied to his Noble Friend, who would have been per-
fectly ready to have beard their reasons, and in whose mind,
he was quite sure, their politics would have had no
influence for or against them. Stich had been the effect
of the declaration of these doctrines in that House, that in
many parts of the country they were entertained almost as a
matter of course. That was the case, he knew, in the West
Riding of York ; and not only there, for the Noble and
Learned Lord on the Woolsack had received a memorial from
the vestry of Marylebone, in which they made no complaint of
the gentlemen at present in the commission, but desired to
have persons of the same liberal opinions as themselves, or,
as they expressed it, persons "whose habits and opinions were
more consonant to those of the great bulk of their fellow-
parishioners." He had framed his motion as far as possible to
comprehend all the information with regard to the appointment
of the Magistrates in the western division of the county of
York ; but he did not know that any memorial had been pre-
sented, and it might be that nothing but private communica-
tions had passed between the Noble and Learned Lord and
other persons on the subject. He could not help saying that
on the appointment of the Magistrates for the borough the
Member for Leeds appeared to have furnished the list of per-
ions who were appointed. Now, he diapproved entirely of
all such proceedings—(Hear, hear) —he did not think that
persons who had stood contested elections in towns were the
proper class of persons to lay before the Lord Chancellor the
lists of persons to be placed in the commission.—( Hear, hear.)
He begged to move that there be laid on the table copies of
any petitions, memorials, or other communications sent to the
Lord High Chancellor from any person or persons residing in
Leeds or its neighbourhood, respecting the insertion of certain
names into the Commission of the Peace for the West Riding
of the county of York.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said that the Noble Baron
who had just sat down had addressed their Lordships after he
had spoken on the former discussion of this subject. The
Noble Earl, the Lord Lieutenant of the county of York, who
then brought forward his motion for correspondence on the
subject, withdrew that motion, and stated that his object had
been attained by the discussion to which it had given rise.
That correspondence was necessarily of a confidential nature,
and consisted of letters which it was not expedient to produce ;
but though lie had seen the necessity of reading some of them,
he did not apprehend that any public inconvenience could
arise from that, as he had carefully avoided the mention of any
names. The Noble Earl withdraw his motion, and the Noble
Baron having spoken after him, had had ample opportunity—
and had availed himself of it as far as to him seemed proper—
of observing upon his statement ; but the next day the Noble
Baron had thought that he could say more or say it better—
and accordingly he gave notice of the motion which he had
made, and which included a repetition of the motion made on
the former night by the Noble Earl ; f of course it em-
braced the same district. The Noble Baron having given
notice of :notion for some papers, which must ba of a confi.
dential nature, and the production of which had net been
pressed for the other night, now said that he did not wish for
them ; but he asked also for communications from any person
living within the district ; but that was a proposieion which
could not for a moment be maintained, nor did the Noble
Baron himself attempt to maintain it What the Noble Baron
really wanted was the opportunity of making a second speech
on the subject on which he had before spoken ; and so far he
had he-n successful in his motion. The Noble Baron stated
that he (the Lord Chancellor) had thi own out doubts as to the
due administration of justice when persons all of the same poli-
tical opinions were on the bench. Now, he had said no such
thing. What lie said was this•—that when them was exclu-
sion, not alluling to any particular bench of magistrate ,
but as a general principle, where the bench consisted of
reasons of one political creed, there was not that degree
of coi.fidence felt by the popul..tion at large towards the
magistrates which there ought to be; butt statiuug, at the
same time, tbht he did not believe that, in point of
fact, it made. Daly difference in the administration of jus-
tice. That he did say, and lie now repeated it. The No-
ble Barotiet had stated that there had been no want of Magi!.
trates ; but that was not the complaint. It was not complained
that applicait;on had not been made to the Lord Lieutenant,
because application had been made to him. There was no
complaint that his recommendation had not been attended to,
because he hail declined to give any —( Hear.) Tie Lord
Lieutenant had been asked whether ho objected to the per-
sons, and he had made no objection ; nor had the Noble Baron
now made any objection to them. What then did it all come
to? Why, it came to a question whether the Lord Chancellor
was to exercise the power of appointing Magistrates or not.—
( Hear, hear.) That was the question.—( Ministerial cheers.)
'The great argument was this—" Don't trust the great
public officer, .who acts on his own undivided responsi-
bility, but rely entirely on the Lords Lieutenant." As
to the particular case, he said nothing against the bench
which previously had existed ; he said nothing against the
mode in which they had administered justice; but he bad
had facts stated to him which induced him to think that it
was his duty to introduce into the Commission these persons,
against whom there was no objection ; and against whom no
objection had been made the other night by the Noble Earl
the Lord-Lieutenant of the county, or even by the Noble
Baron himself. He was satisfied that no objection could be
made to these persona ; for the discussions which had arisen
on the subject had led to further investigation ; by the result
of which he bad been satisfied that each and every one of
those persons so appointed was eminently fit and proper for the
station in which they had been placed—( Hear, hear)—and
what evidence had they to the contrary ? Not a statement—
not even an insinuation.—( Hear, hear.) It came then to
this, that the Noble Lord preferred the former list.—( Hear.
hear. ) Why did he prefer it?—( Hear, hear, arid laughter. )
Not because the individuals in the last list were objectionable
—no such thing. He reed not enter into the question fur-
ther, but the Noble Lord had certain interests in thattistrict,
end fur some reason or other lie preferred the old list to ti f*
new one—( Hear, hear)—but that was not quite conclusive in
his opinion that the infusion of a few other names might net
ho advantageous to the public interests.—(Hear, hear, and
a laugh.) Beyond all doubt it was the duty of the
Chancellor to anpoint the magistrates; that duty was
imposed by the Act of Parliament on him alone; but it had
been found convenient, and he had no desire or intention of
departing from the practice, for the Lord Chancellor to corn-
mearicate with the Lords Lieutenants, and to seek their advice
with respect to the persons fit to be placed on the commiszion.