The Sun.
London, England, 1854-03-03 00:00:00

s there expressed. They seemed to think that the present
was not a time for making great changes, although that
argument (lid not seem to have influenced them in other
and very important matters. (Hear, hear.) Surely it
would not be contended that the present was a satisfactory
mode of carrying on any Government uepartm nt, or one
that could produce efficiency. In the first place, they had
an army governed by a Secretary of State for the Colonies.
Then they had the Commander-in-Chief, and again they
had the Master-General of the Ordnance. Where was the
necessity for these distinctive offices in carrying on a public
department which, like all others, would be much more
satisfactorily conducted by one authority ? The noble lord
(Seymour) had referred to matters which he (Sir J. Peking-
ton's) experience tended to confirm. When he was Secre-
tary for the Colonies, he recollected on one occasion re-
ceiving urgent representations as to the health of the troops
employed on colonial service in different parts of the world.
The soldiers it appeared were suffering from sickness caused
by a deficiency in the commissariat, and when he sought to
apply a remedy he found that he had to refer to one depart-
ment, which had to refer to another, and while these
several departments were putting questions one to another,
no remedy could be provided. He thought the right hon.
gentleman had altogether failed in answering the argu-
-1 ments put forward in support of the motion ; on the
contrary, what he had stated as an answer, tended to
confirm those arguments. The right hon. gentleman said,
"True, we have all these separate departments for the
management of the army, but they are all acting har-
moniously together." If they were acting harmoniously
now, it could not be forgotten that there had been discord
between them, which discord might revive, and it was of
the greatest importance to take measures in time to guard
against the injury to the public service which must result
should such discord occur whilst our army was in the field.
(Hear, bear.) The right bon. gentleman said no sufficient
' reason had been adduced for creating a Secretary of State
for the War Department. Now he (Sir J. Pakington) did
not understand the motion to point to that conclusion.
What the hon. member for Montrose did in his resolution
was to urge the necessity of placing the department under
one efficient officer. (Hear, hear, from Mr. Hume.) That
was the hon. gentleman's object, and when the right hon.
gentleman (Mr. S. Herbert) stated that the Queen's com-
.nantls were now conveyed sometimes through one officer
sod sometimes through another, he certainly showed no
reason why the Secretary of State for the Colonies should
continue in the anomalous position of being also Secretary
at War. The business of the colonial department alone
;vas more than enough for any one man without encum-
oering it with the duties which in no way belonged to
it. In time of peace perhaps the Secretary for the Colo-
nies might continue to a..t as Secretary at War, but
when he held the office he felt that should war take
Place it would be impossible for the business of the two
departments to be satisfactorily performed by the same
person. They had been told that this was not the time
to make any change. But the recommendation of the
commission was made in time of peace, and then the
;hang° was not made because we were at peace, and now
't was to be deferred because we were entering upon war
Depend upon it the public would not be satisfied that a
question involving the efficient administration of so ins-
iortant a department should be thus trifled with. He
loped the Government would seriously consider whethei
it would be unwise at the present moment to organise a
'iew department, and if they should be of opinion that the
working of such new department at first might be incon-
venient, and prejudice the service, then he would urge
upon them to consider whether some change might not be
made by which the colonial department might be relieved
L-rom duties which it could not properly discharge. The
noble lord hail thrown out a suggestion which he thought
a good one—namely, to appoint a new secretary of state to
transact the war business. The right hon. gentleman had
,net the case in a frank spirit ; for he admitted that the
present system was bad, and ought to be changed, and he
trusted the Government would act upon that admission,
and effect the change as speedily as was prudent— (hear,
hear)—and in that hope he would press upon the hon.
member for Montrose not to press his motion.
Mr. E. ELLICE also expressed a hope that his' hon.
Friend would not divide ; for if he did he thought the Go-
vernment would be left in a minority. In the face of the
almost general feeling of the house, it was impossible,
he thought, in a rational country to permit the present
confused administration of an important public depart-
ment to continue. But there was one influence which ap
peared to be paramount with the Government—that of Sir
Charles Trevelyan, of the Treasury. He had the highest
respect for that gentleman, but he would urge the right
hon. gentleman who was now adopting some of his views,
to look back at the evidence he gave before the committee
on the army and navy expenditure. The right hon. gen-
tleman would there see an instance of a public officer who
had the faculty of making plenty of business if he could
lot very readily despatch it. He recollected that Mr.
Sheridan once said of Mr. 'Whitbread that he was so indus-
trious that it was a pity he had so many dray horses, be-
cause if he had not he would draw all his drays himself.
(A. laugh.) Sir Charles Trevelyan seemed equally indus-
trious, and was anxious to add to the business of one
department the whole of the emigration business of the
country. For his own part, he always looked with suspi-
cion upon a man who proposed to do by a public depart-
ment that which the public out of doors could do much
better for themselves. The incompatibility of the
duties of the war department being united with those
of the Colonial Secretary was shown the other day
when but for Mr. Guthrie's letter the troops would
have been sent out without the necessary ambulances
and field hospitals. It was due, however, to the Duke of
Newcastle to say, that the moment his attention was
called to the subject they were provided. The clothing of
the army was under a board of general officers ; the arms
under one authority, the commissariat under another ; in
short, the details of the service depended upon so many
lifferent parties that in no other country in the world
would such a system be tolerated. What they wanted by
this motion was to take from any Secretary of State the
?ray of providing for another department than his own.
They wanted to have one au hority to whom the Colonial
Secretary, the Home Secretary, and the Foreign Secre-
tary, when troops were required for the service of either
lepartment, should apply, and that all the military an-
horities should report to one head. With regard to the
xpe lition sent out to the East, they had the consolation
of knowing that it was commanded by one of the best
sfficers in the service—(cheers)—and at the same time one
if the best practical men of business in this or any other
eountry. (Cheers.) They might depend, therefore, that
'here would be no division of authority when that noble
lord (Raglan) commanded, and that the ordnance, commis-
etriat, and medical department, and everything else con-
wet d with the force, would be looked to by himself.
Hear.) And as that was the best mode of carrying on the
Military department abroad he and his hon friend (Mr.
:lame) de:ired to see the same principle at home.
Colonel KNOX hoped the ordnance would be placed
;rider the sane management as the rest of the army.
believed that it was necessary that the whole army
should he under one head, and it never would be in a state
of efficiency until that was the case He thought that as
we were embarking troops for foreign service, it was rather
tate for the Government not to have made up their minds
is to what description of arms the troops should have.
There were two sorts of arms in use by the troops and se-
veral kinds of ammunition, whereas there ought to be one
uniform kind of arms and ammunition. As regarded the
Sfinie rifles, he was told that they required with the balls and
ammunition a certain quantity of grease ; and in a hot cli-
mate, with 60 rounds of cartridges, the requisite quantity
of grease would be diminished; and after firing a few
rounds the rifles would become inefficient, in consequence
if the want of grease, without which the balls could not
se forced down. This was a matter that required atten
tion.

Colonel MAULE said there were only two kinds of arms
,arriecl by the troops, the smooth bore musket and the
Ntinie rifle, and only two corresponding sorts of ammuni-
tion. As to the difficulty of load,ing the Minie, he was
fissured by Colonel Hay that to a man accustomed to using
the rifle there was no difficulty in forcing the ball down.
Lord J. RUSSELL said—Sir, I confess that my opinion
as to the general evils of the present ptate of the War De-
nartment is not very much altered flora what it was when
the subject was inquired into some time ago. As to the re-
medywhich was then proposed, I have some doubts certainly
with regard to a part of the authority which it was suggested
should be given to the Secretary at War. I think that other
arrangements might, perhaps, be better for the attainment
of the object we have in view. At all events, I consider it is
very clear from what has happened at various times—with
respect more particularly to the Ordnance department, and
the difficulty of making arrangements for the health of the
troops—that a more efficient and more direct authority is
required. My right hon. friend has stated that he thinks
the Ordnance ought to be more connected with the Secre- i
tary at War than it now is—that as the Secretary at War
checks all the expenditure of the Commander-in-Chief, so
he ought also to check the expenditure of the Ordnance.
I believe, if this were done, it would not only serve as a
check, but the operations of the Ordnance department
would be much facilitated and made more effective than
they now are. It has been asked why it was that the re-
port of 1837 was not carried into effect. The first consider-
ation of that report came naturally before Lord Melbourne,
who was then the head of the Government, and he imrne-
. . . .

iistely entered into a cprrespondenca with the Duke of
Wellington on the subject. The Duke of Wellington wrote
two or three letters to Lord Melbourne, who found that those
letters contained many objections to the report. They were
chiefly objections of a constitutional nature, as relating to
the functions of the Secretary-at-war. His grace thought
that certain things could only be done by the Secretary-at-
War—that- he was the proper person to take her Majesty's
pleasure, and to give directions to the Commander in-Chief.
These objections, proceeding from so high an authority,
and being enforced by able arguments, induced Lord Mel-
bourne to think it better at that time not to take steps to
carry out the report. I quiteconcurred inLerd Melbourne's
Opinion, and would not have liked to be a party to enforce
the new arrangement against the authority of the Duke of
Wellington, who, on this point, entertained very decided
objections. With respect to the arrangement now proposed
my right hon. friend has explained the great difficulty and
inconvenience that would arise from attempting to carry
into effect a new organisation of the departments at a mo-
ment when they are all required to make the utmost exer-
tions in the preparation of this expedition. But there is
one suggestion which has been made in this house that has
already been taken into consideration, viz., the suggestion
that there should be, and especially in time of war, not

only an Under Secretary of State f r the Colonial Depart-
ment, but that there should be a military secretary attach-
ed to the office of my noble friend the noble duke at the
head of the war and colonial departments. That suggestion
has already been taken into consideration, and will, I trust,
in a very short time be adopted. I believe it is necessary
that some arrangement of that kind should be made to
enable the noble duke to carry into effect the preparations
in which he has been so busily engaged. My noble friend,
having charge of the War and Colonial Departments, has
paid the utmost attention to all the arrangements which
are necessary at this moment. Instead of its being a
great public convenience I believe it would be a great pub-
lic inconvenience, if the carrying out of these arrange-
ments were to be transferred to any other department; but
I quite agree with the hon. member for Montrose, that
better arrangements are required, and I am sure that the
hon. gentleman and the house will feel satisfied after the
speech of my right hon. friend the Secretary at War, that
no want of attention will he shown to this subject.
Mr. HUME said that, after the statements which had
been made to the house on the part of the Government,
he would not at present persevere any farther with his
motion.

The motion was then withdrawn.
USTINGS EXPENSES.
M. HUME said that he was sorry to trouble thehouse,
but he had now another question to bring before its notice.
(A. laugh.) He woul.l move for leave to bring in a bill to
charge the expenses of hustings at elections upon counties
and boroughs in lieu of the candidates.
The motion having been seconded by Mr. WILLIAMS,
Lord J. RUSSELL stated that he saw no objection