The Sun.
London, England, 1838-07-10 00:00:00

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.

Sir R. PEEL begged to impress on the attenii;;" of the Noble Lord
opposite how important it was that he should state what Bills were
likely to pass this Session, and if there was no chance of their passing
that they ,hould be at once struck out.
Lord J. RUSSELL could really give no answer.
IRISH TITHES.

On the Order of.the Day being read on the House going Into Com.
mitt,e on the Irish Tithe Bill,

Mr. O'CONNELL said he rose to oppose the House going into Com-
mittee on the Bill until they agreed to a preliminary, which he consi-
dered to be indispensable, for any ehance of the good working of the
Bill. He would not delude the House by promising. the Bill would in
any way work well. He believed it would create dissatisfaction and
disturbance in Ireland, unless a certain measure were taken,
and upon which he should take the sense of the House.
This Bill would increase instead of reibedying the evils of the present
system. At the present moment affairs in Ireland were in a most critical
trisition. For the last four years the Government of that country had
been conducted with vigilance in the suppression of crime, and with
conciliation towards the mass of the people, which had the efFect of re.
conciling the people for the first time to the administration of the Go-
vernment. But still the evil was palliated and not cured, for that
evil would continua so long as the fact existed that nine-tenths of the
population were Catholic and Presbyterian ; and so long as this fact did
exist, it would he vain to form any scheme for reconciling that nine.
tenths to support the Church Establishment of the remaining
tenth. The resistance to Tithes had certainly been of 'ale tnore
passive than activ, ; but the opposition of public opinion to
Tithe did and would continue—Meer, heart—as was shown by the
numerous tithe meetings, attended by from 50,000 to 150,000 persons
o ch. The Government proposed this measure as a soother— as dimi.
nishing the mischief. Thirty per cent. it had beets intended to strike
off the tithe composition, which, however, hit been reduced to 25 per
cent. It had been said that this was not, forsooth, a money question ;
but, in fact, it had been trade a question entirely of pounds, shillings,
and pence; and a miserable contest had been waged on the remaining
3 per cent., and a paltry party triumph gained upon it.—(Hear.) The
new system was to make the landlords tithe proctors. Was that a sys.
tem calculated to promote peace and tranquillity in Ireland ?—to make
the landlords sue their tenants for tithes! Would it not tend to increase
agrarian disturtianaes ? Bywhom was the arrears of 640,0001. owed? By the
most lenient of the Protestant t lergymen in Ireland—that is, by those
who bad not adopted the more viol Ili means for procuring their lithos.
They owed that arrear because they preferred the acne Of their neigh-
bourhood to the chance or the certainty of recovering it by force ; and
if any men deserved the kind attention of the Home, it was that ,et of
Protestant clergymen whom 'they were now calling upon for those
arrears. It would not be expected they should pay back those arrears
without having recourse to those who originally owed them. Ile could
not coneeiveanything more mlschievous than the looking for this 640,0004
from men, many of whom could lute :and to pay it. When this million
was proposed, he (Mr. O'(:onneli) announced that they would never get it
back. He told them now they would never recover it They might
recov, r a portion of it. The House would recollect what happened to
Lord Stanley, who expended 20,0001. and recovered 12,000/ Did they
alelalvielistthewr—thlt taise
it
sti y, by
again wish to make suet) an experiment as that by way of conciliating
Ireland ? He implored the Huttse to look distinctly on this question,
way of soothing it into quiet ? In.
to key this 640,000/.
and its object be ng to produce quiet in Ireland, to make the burden of
nation
made
theyaae a tit; itn;h .et to do with t
every
tithes as little felt as possible, would they trace this festering sore—this
f
stead of conciliation, increased disturbance mot arise from the attempt
he
arrears which had recurred since? If they did tint wish to conciliate they
would
tithe-owner to look fir his arrears, by the change of tlsa system. They
gave a stimulant to 11w tithe-owner no longer to forbear. Let the House
take this course if it chose, but let it not imagine this was a scheme of
conciliation or pacification for Ireland. They might talk of submission
to she iaw.. and
of the necessity cif enforcing the taws. These were
admirable and excellent phrases—truisms in their nature, but inappli-
The"
whiabti.it7luredy-
cable to any atateinnoilike view of conciliating Ireland. What did the
people care fir such phrases The more abstract law and abstract justice
was talked 4 f, the more it would make them consider the abstract injus.
tice of making one'portion of the country support the clergy of another.
—(Hear, hear.) Under these circumstances, what was it he called on
the to do ? tle wanted them to blot out the ineunabrances svhicli
had e,nharrassed every firmer system. He collet on the House to remit
the 640,t10(11.; and with respect to the remainder, be proposed that a
Committee should have the power to diminish it at least to the extent of
the dimini• rent-charge—that they should s' rike off 25 per c. lit. Let
there be a Commission to investigate how much was due to cavil c:ergy man,
and where solvent persons were discavered, let them pay their arrears,
and take them olf in every part where there were likely to be disturb.
sores Let them suspend the operation of this law in the mean time.
As to the residue—the arrears owing now he proposed to remit no mu; e
than 05 per cent. to any sob cult person; but at all events thme ought to
lee an inquiry as to the peaces in which thegetting up of the arrears mold
create disturbances They s, ere beginning a new system ; let it bra new one
altrigethi r, and take from it those parts which must necessarily create
vexation. He might lie taunted with the charge that he wished to take
Englall money. He a :mitt eat it, for if English gentlemen thought it
their duty to impose such a Bill upon Ireland, they must be prepared to
pay for it, if they expected to ensure peace. Notwithstanding the ad-
miration in which the Admitiistration of the Minguis of Normanby
was held, notwithstanding the wish that prevailed, not, as it were,
to tarnish the Government of that Noble Lord, still if the 13111
passed as it stood, they would not obtain peace. The flouss ought to
remember that they had given no Legislative ttaiief tyreland. They
had not passed the Corporation Bill.—(Cheers.) They had pass.' a
Poor-law Bill, but as it sto-d. it was only one of the ingredients in the
cup of mischief which they were brewing for poor Ireland, tie hoped
the plan was wide enough to admit his principle, and he therefore moved
that it be an instruction to the Committee to provide Orr the paying off
of the arrears of tithes.
The SPEAKER suggested that the motion was informal, as it was in
fact asking for a grant of public money.

Mr. O'CO. .LL—I do not want any public money. I only want
a receipt for v. oney already ( A laugh.) As there is an objection
to my Motion, Isbell now give notice that I shall move an address to tier
m ‘jastyrar
arrangementsremission f thfeor6t4hoe,ol,olu.,niatitoidi,
anio.viv
dmisclerg of thatthe
the
Committee •
tithes now due.
Lord J. RUSSELL was very doubtful of the formality of the
;notion of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, anti even it were car-
ried he did not think it would obtain fir him the object he proposed.
with retard to this Bill, it did not appear to him that even if the me.
tion were carried the Hon. and Learned Gentleman would attain his
o'dect.
Lord STANLEY said, that if the Hon. and Learned Gentleman
should press his motion to a division he should feel it to be his duty to
support that motion.--(Hear, hear.) Ile concurred in the opinion that
this Bill would in a great degree fall short of producing those beneficial
results which were anticipated from it by the promoters of the Bill, and
those who supported it, if it did not involve some provision for the
settlement of the arrears now due. The immediate object of
this Bill was to promote the peeve and tranquillity of Ireland
by substituting payment of the Tithe Composition direct from the
landlord instead of payment by the occupier, who was generally very
little able to bear the burthen. The peace of Ireland must depend on
this consideration and this construction, that from and after the period
a hen this Bid came into operation there should be ito more demands
made by the Protestant clergymen on the Itt;man Catholic population.
(gear, hear.) The object of the Bill would fail if they were either
allowed, or compelled them to proceed against the occupying tenants for
the arrears now clue. The question was a very grave and serious quai.
what manner to do justice to all tarties, or to do the
least injustice to any, it was impossible to provide fur the difficulty
The proposition made by his Right Hon Friend, the Chaileellor of the
Exchequer, the other day, would not do justice to the Clergymen, be.
caose he proposed to relieve the occupying tenant, not the landlord, at
the
grievous expense of the Clergy. The Hon. Member for Dublin pro.
and to a cortajo extent
tpooseiddaileivlT, totirieelit.cv;irtgliye, occupying tenant,
it o very heavy charge on the
Slate. He admitted the force of all the argument against
pressing on the occupying tenants for arrears which, long ago, •
they were encouraged to believe they would not be called on to
pay. lie saw thg importapee of the ease, and hem the pei.etiiitY that
the State should be prepared to bear a proportion of the sacrifice.
He, as an Irish landlord would say that the Irish landlords had
no right to be caned upon to bear the whole burthen —(Hear.) ,
In those years when the tithes were worse paid by the tenants, the !
landlords best received their rents. Therefore, the landlords had re.