The Sun.
London, England, 1854-05-23 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, MAY 23, 1854.

IMPERIAL PA RLI AMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS-(YESTERDAY.)

Their lordships met at five o'clock.
Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition from the
principal navy agents against the Navy Pay Bill. They
complained that the effect of the bill would be to take
from them the business which they had enjoyed for 100
years, with respect to the distribution of prize monies,
and place it in the hands of a public officer, to be ap-
pointed for the purpose. The noble and learned lord bore
high testimony to the admirable and successful manner
in which they had, during the last wars, transacted 1411
matters entrusted to them by the officers and seamen
who were captors of prizes, and he appealed to the Go-
vernment to take their case into their earnest consi-
deration.
Lord HA.THERTON presented a petition from the
mayor, magistrates, and principal inhabitants of the
borough of Walsall, and also from the inhabitants of
Tipton, in Staffordshire, for an amendment of the law
prohibiting the payment of wages otherwise than in the
coin of the realm. The noire lord entered into a state-
ment of the law on the subject, and showed the neces-
sity for further legislation.
PAROCHIAL SCHOOLMASTERS IN
SCOTLAND.

The Duke of BUCCLEUCH inquired what were the
intentions of the Government with respect to parochial
schoolmasters in Scotland.
The Earl of ABERDEEN said, as the bill for ex-
tending education to Scotland, which contained a clause
permanently increasing the stipend of Sc itch parochial
schoolmasters, had been defeated in the other house, the
Government intended to introduce a temporary measure
to continue those stipends, which this year would be
reduced to the scale in existence twenty five years ago,
at the rate at which they had recently been paid.

The Marquis of BRE-XDALBA.N-E deeply regretted
the fate of the Ministerial measure for the improvement
of education in Scotland, inasmuch as a great majority
of the people in that kingdom were decidedly in its favour.
The Earl of EGLINTUN briefly defended the Scotch
members who had opposed the measure.
After a few words from Lord KINNAIRD and the
Duke of ARGYLL, who deprecated a premature discus-
sion of the question,
Lord BROUGHAM suggested the introduction of
two bills, one for the towns, the other for the rural dis-
tricts. He trusted that Government would consult the
cause of education rather than the advantage of any re-
ligious body.
On the motion of Lord BROUGHAM, the house was
ordered to be furnished with returns of the mode of pay-
ing judges in all courts.
BILLS OF EXCHANGE BILL.

The Bills of Exchange Bill then passed through com-
mittee, and, on the motion of Lord BROUGHAM,
was ordered to be printed.

LAW OF LANDLORD AND TENANT (IRE-
LAND) BILL.—POWERS OF LEASING (IRE-
LAND) BILL.
The report of the committee on these bills was then
brought up.
After some conversation, the report with amendments
was agreed to.

NAVY PAY BILL.-MANNING THE NAVY

BILL.

The Duke of NEWCASTLE moved the second read-
ing of these bills. They had only come from the other
house on Saturday morning, and consequently the noble
lords who took an interest in them and desired to ex-
press their opinions on them had not had sufficient time
to consider them. Under the circumstances, and con
suiting the convenience of the noble lords, he proposed
then to take the second reading, and would fix the com-
mittee for Friday ; and on going into committee they
would take the discussion. _

The bills were accordingly read a second time.
BOUNDARY SURVEY (IRELAND) BILL.

On the motion of Lord STANLEY of ALDERLEY,
this bill was read a third time.

Their lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS—(YESTERDAY.)
The SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.

The Lords amendments to the following bills were con-
sidered and agreed to :—Birmingham Waterworks, Man-
chester Corporation Waterworks, New River (Hertford
Sewerage Diversion, &c.), Wellington (Salop) Improvement,
West Hartlepool Imnprovement.
The following bills were read a third time and passed :
Ambergate, Nottingham, and Boston and Eastern Junc-
tion Railway (Extension into Nottingham, &c.) ; East
Suffolk Railway, Londonderry Bridge, Mallow and Fermoy
Railway, Stamford and Kettering Road ; York, New-
castle, and Berwick Railway ; and Bradford Corporation
Waterworks.
The following bills were considered and ordered to be read
a third time :—Bradford, Wakefield, and Leeds Railway ;
Brighton, Cuckfield, etc., Roads ; Chester, Farndon, and
Worthenbury Road : East Lancashire, Lancashire and
Yorkshire, and Manchester and Southport Railway • Law
Life Assurance Society; Leeds, Bradford, and Halifax
Junction Railway; London, Tilbury, and Southend Rail-
way; Towy Vale Railway; West Bromwich Improvement,
etc. ; Winchester and Petersfield Road.

to state that they should first take votes on all the new
taxes, and it was for that reason that he now moved that
the house should go into committee.
Mr. DISRAELI said that was certainly not the order of
proceeding they understood was to be followed. He did
understand the report of the formal resolution was to have
been brought forward last Monday, in order that the opi-
nion of the house should be taken on it. (Hear, hear.)
Lord J. RUSSELL said he thought it was perfectly
clear that either the report or the further resolutions in
committee should be taken when the motion was brought
on. (Hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER corrobo-
rated this statement of the noble lord, and said the objec-
tion of Mr. Disraeli was founded on a misapprehension.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY said he understood the whole
question of the Budget was to have been discussed on the
report on Monday last. Ile thought the Chancellor of the
Exchequer was bound to tell the house on what grounds he
intended to raise a very large sum of money, 4,000,0031.,
by Exchequer bond, within a period of four or six years,
as he was now initiating a new set of measures.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, with
respect to the grounds for those taxes, he thought he had
stated those grounds very fully in his general financial
statement, and he was very sorry if he had not been fully
and clearly understood. Ho said the intention was to raise
money for the present financial year, and not during a
series of years, as the hon. baronet seemed to think.

Mr. T. BARING said he certainly had understood that
the original resolution should be proceeded with first ; but
as that was not to be the case, he must now move that
amendment in committee which he had intended to submit
to the whole house. He certainly did wish he could give
a silent vote on this occasion, looking at the great and
pe-
culiar difficulties of the times—diffieulties which he would
say arose from the mismanagement of the finances last
year, and from the unwise conduct of her Majes•
ty's Government. (Hear, hear, hear.) Thinking, as
he did, that the financial measures adopted last year
were wanting in prudence, and had been unsuccessful, he
could not now give a silent vote on the present measures.
He thought the Exchequer-bill market was a most valuable
resource for any Minister, but that market must be main-
tained by the Chancellor of the Exchequer shaping his
operations according to transactions elsewhere, and a con-
viction that Exchequer-bill hailers can always obtain their
money whenever they wanted to change their investments.
The sum of 652,4561. of stock of the funded debt of savings
banks had been sold to buy up Exchequer bills, and they
were again converted to the funded debt of the country,
entailing an additional burden on the debt of the country
of 1,24000/.—and that was caused by the conduct of the
Government with respect to the financial measures of last
year. He hoped that for the future the finance of France
would not be made the basis for that of a finance Minister
of this country ; for it could not be creditable to compare
the finance of a country like England, whose resources
or credit have never been doubted, with that of a coun-
try like France, which, whatever its resources might
be, was only just recovering from a general and total con-
vulsion. (Hear, hear.) H approved of the desire of her
Majesty's Ministers for preserving peace, but if there was
the slightest speck of a cloud of a disturbing cause abroad
they ought to have paused last April (1853) when
they proposed their financial measures—(hear),—and there
was in the blue book a letter from Lord Clarendon on
the movements of troops towards the Russian frontiers,
which should of itself have given them that warning. He
could not then but say they ought not allow this resolution to
pass without saying more caution should have been exercised
in the past, and that more prudence should be observed for
the future. (Hear.) He could not imagine that between a
reasonable Chancellor of the Exchequer and a prudent go-
vernor of the Bank of England, there should be anything
that could not be reconciled, for the benefit both of
public
and of private credit. (Hear, hear). And whilst he allowed
that deficiency bills might be resorted to in an emergency,
yet if the Bank were forced to raise its interest on these
bills, they would not have great advantages, but they
would have the disadvantage that they might have to ask
the Bank for money, which the Bank could not grant
without serious restrictions upon the commerce of the
country. (Hear, hear.) The Bank had always been ready
to meet the demands of the Government, and for this rea-
son it was the earthen vessel, while the Government was
the jar of iron. But while he would allow that deficiency
bills might occasionally be resorted to, he thought that
if they were to have a rule at all, the most prudent rule
would be to keep a balance in hand, so that the wants of
the Government might be supplied out of the previous
rather than the future income. (Hear, hear.) They had
heard something, indeed, of a little loss sustained by the
public from allowing large balances to be in the Bank with-
out interest; but the gain from adopting the opposite
course would not be so great after all. The Government
of this country was a large borrower, and they must keep
the state of the Exchequer Bill market in mind. If by
lowering their balances they forced the Bank to raise its
rate of interest, not only would they have to pay that en-
hanced rate on what they borrowed from the Bank, but
they would have to pay a larger interest on the floating
debt. (Hear, hear.) Besides, they might have to ask for
money which the Bank could not afford without incon-
veniencing the trade and commerce of the country ; and
that again, he need not say, would recoil on the prosperity
of the Exchequer. He thought that the policy which the
right hon. gentleman had laid down as that which was to
be the future policy of the Government, namely, to look to
deficiency bills to a greater or less extent for the supply of
the daily wants of the public service, was as a principle—
exceptions were of course to be allowed—but it was, as a
rule, impolitic. (Cheers.) He had said thus much upon
the past policy of the Government; but if the house would ex-
cuse him he would now proceed to make some remarks
upon the present position of the finance of this country.
(Cheers.) The right hon. gentleman on the 6th of March
said there were three ways in which the wants of the Ex-
chequer might be met, namely, by a system of loans, of in-
direct taxation, and of direct taxation. The right hon.
gentleman had adopted the last ; but he did not pledge
himself, if the war lasted, that he might not have to have
recourse to indirect taxation, and that, strong as was his
feeling against loans, he might not be eventually forced to
adopt that course. He (Mr. Baring) shared with the right
hon. gentleman's feelings with regard to increasing the
National Debt. (Hear.) So far as he had taken part in
the debates of that house, it had generally been to rebuke
the Government for not keeping sufficiently large balances
to be applied to the gradual extinction of that debt ; for he
was one who thought that the gradual extinction of that
debt in time of peace ought to have been made a more pro-
minent feature in our finance than had been the case.
(Hear.) Not, indeed, by fits and starts, by paying off ten
millions at par when it could have been bought at 85—
(cheers)---but by such a regular process as would have en-
ab ed the minister, not only to have reduced the capital,
but even to have dealt with the interest. The right hon.
gentleman had professed great reluctance to resort to a
loan ; but he thought the right hon. gentleman was hardly
sincere in the language he had so properly held upon that
subject. When he had made use of the savings banks funds
to increase the national debt, and when he put forward his
scheme to reduce the interest to 2. per cent. by increasing
the capital of the debt ten millions, the right hon. gentle-
man was certainly not so coy. The right hon. gentleman had
censured the imprudence of Mr. Pitt in raising 180 millions
by loans iu six years ; but he did not seem to reflect on the
difficulty Mr. Pitt must have had to raise 30 or 40 millions
a year by taxation without making the war unpopular or
too severely straining the national resources. The right
hon. gentleman said his own a.tempt to raise six millions
was not a loan ; but surely its being borrowed for two,
four, or even six years, would not make it less a loan.
(Hear, hear.) But was the right hon gentleman so sure
that he should be able to pay these bonds, when tney be-
came due, without inconvenience ? Or was he even sure
that ho should then be Chancellor of the Exchequer ?
(Hem., hear.) The then Chancellor of the Exchequer might
talk of the right hon. gentleman as he now talked of Mr.
Pitt. (A laugh.) He might say, "I have the greatest
veneration fur the name of Gladstone—(laughter)—but I
wish he had not begun his war with these ad interior
finances. (Hear, hear.) He was a great Chancellor of the
Exchequer, but he made these petty loans at short dates,
which so puzzle rne. (Laughter.) He was anxious to
save his country from burdens, but he has greatly embar-
rassed me who have to pay these loans with an empty ex-
chequer, and a country impoverished with war. (Hear,
hear.) Yet Gladstone was a great financier; for he actu-
ally made the House of Commons think he was not bor-
rowing at all." (Loud laughter.) The sum which the
right hon. gentleman wanted was 3,513,0001., of
which the house had already granted 2,0J0,0031. by
this loan, and a million and a half was therefore what
now remained to be raised. Ho (Mr. Baring) believed
that under any other circumstances than those in which
the right honourable gentleman had most unfortunately
placed the Exchequer-bill market, he might easily have
procured the money by Exchequer-bills. (Hear, hear.) If,
however, the Government wished to asake a loan, let them
do it oi.enly, and call it a loan. (gr. Gladstone, " Hear,
hear.") He understood by that c;ieer that the right hon.
gentleman said it was a loan. It was then a loan, and
one made under great disadvantages, for theyelf3tohrreodweebd
pay o
at 4 per cent., and bound themselves to
within a certain time. He (Mr. Baring) should at_ allt
events propose, if the Government gave the option of pay.
ment to the bondholders at all, that the period should be
six years instead of four ; because then the terminable
annuities would have fallen in and the Government would
have something wherewith to meet the demand. (Hear,
hear.) The right hon. gentleman's loan had not hitherto
been very successful, and yet it seemed preposterous
that a scheme should fail which involved the
payment of 34 per cent. for four years. (Hear, hear.)
The right hon. gentleman had said that he hail to combat
with great obstacles, with the monied power of this
country, and that that monied power had been constantly
anxious for war, in order that they might make colossal
fortunes, as heroes were anxious for war that they might
distinguish themselves. He thought it would have been
allowed that, at some period, the bankers and capitalists of
the City of London had rendered good service to the state ;
but the right hon. gentleman considered them as the
vampires that sucked its life-blood. (Hear, hear.) He
said that Mr. Pitt was only called a heaven-born minister
because he made loans; but might it not be that the term
was applied to Mr. Pitt because Ito was always successful
in his operations ; and the right hon. gentleman certainly
could not claim to be " heaven-born" in that sense.
(Cheers and laughter.) He would tell the right hon. gen-
tleman that it had been his lot, in his vocation, to have
some dealings with those connected with the monied power
of this country ; and he did not believe them to be so bad,
so powerful, or so useless as the right hon. gentleman did.
He tried to cast an odium on those who were striving to
make colossal fortunes. Actuated by this feeling, with
what pleasure the right hon. gentleman must have doubled
the income tax ; and with what pride and pleasure the
country must know that there were colossal fortunes which
could meet the increased taxation. (Hear, hear.) But the
monied interest were not so powerful as the right hon. gen-
tleman supposed. They did but reflect public opinion ;
they were but the middle men, who conducted the dealings
between those who had large fortunes and those who had
small ones. They were but the representatives of public
opinion ; and the reason why the right hon. gentleman.
found that they had not aided him was in reality because
he had not offered them anything which the public wanted
to buy. (Hear, hear.) It was those who had dissented
from the right hon. gentleman's conversion scheme that
had made their fortunes—those who had taken their money
instead of his new stocks. (Cheers.) And now the right
hon. gentleman said, " It is very strange I cannot get these
monied people to act with me, because I give them what
I think is right, and they won't accept it." (Hear, hear.)
The right hon. gentleman should recollect that public
opinion was not to be forced, that forced operations
were seldom successful. And, though he might say
that all was best that was done by this best of all pos-
sible governments, the public dealers in stocks might take
a different view, and might think that they had not had
exactly what they ought to have. (Hear, hear.) Then
the right hon. gentleman said the matter was now in the
hands of the House of Commons; the First Lord of the
Treasury and the Chancellor of the Exchequer were very
weak with the monied power, but if the house passed a
resolution it must prevail: He (Mr. Baring) had a very
great respect for the House of Commons ; he knew that
its authority was almost supreme and omnipotent; but
there was one thing it could npt do—it could not make the
Public buy what they-did not Want, if they had the option

of refusing it; it could not make them invest money in
what they did not like, or feel confidence in that which
they had been taught to distrust. (Cheers.) He would
ask the house to adopt his amendment for this reason. He
wished the Government to speak out plainly and tell them
what they wanted this money for, and to what extent
they really wanted it. Was it to restore the balances of
the Exchequer at least to what they were only last year,
and which the Government said ought never to be so large ?
Was it that they had under-estimated the expense of the
war? Let them come boldly forward and tell the house
what they wanted for the expenditure of the war, and they
had already seen with what readiness the house would
grant their demands. (Hear, hear.) It had been said
that this was a vote of want of confidence. But, if this
were so, anything might be distorted into a vote of want
of confidence. The slightest censure, the merest hint
or expression of apprehension for the future, might be
taken as a declaration of want of confidence. The most
powerful Governments had been beaten on a budget, and
had not considered it as a vote of want of confidence. Un-
der Lord Liverpool's administration the income tax had
been repealed against the Government, thus taking from
them a revenue of 12 01.15 millions; still the Government
went on. They had seen, later, under the administration
of the noble lord (Russell), two or three budgets brought
forward and taken back again. (Cheers, and laughter.)
And that was not considered a vote of want of confidence.
He had voted for the new taxes of the Government, not
because ho did not think that various objections might be
made to them, but because he did not wish to throw im-
pediments in their way. (Hear) But this, if a vote of
want of confidence at all, was a vote of want of con-
fidence on schemes which had failed, on measures
which had been rendered abortive by the bad way in which
they had been put forward. (Hear.) It was a vote of
want of confidence that, in four or six years hence, the
state would he able to pay these Exchequer Bonds. (Hear.)
Let the Government say what they wanted; if it was a
loan let them have it. If they wanted taxes, let them come
forward and say what amount they wanted ; but let them
not go on inju ing the public credit by those constant,
worrying, meddling changes—this succession of disastrous
experiments. (Cheers.) Let not the Government think
that they could play the game like any other game, by
bringing forward a measure, and if it was a bad move,
taking it back, and playing again. Financial mistakes were
national misfortunes. (Hear.) Financial failures were
great calamities ; and a series of failures was fraught
with danger to the credit of the country. (Hear,
hear.) The Government had a great power to back
them ; they had called on the energies of the people ;
they had taxed the resources of the count' y • and
the country would respond to the demand. (Hear.) But
they had within reach arms still more potent- -the national
credit ; that credit had achieved wonders, and it could do
the same again. But while powerful it was at the same
time most sensitive. Under the guidance of a judicious,
careful, and experienced hand, it could be borne through the
crisis uncrushed and uninjured; but beneath the touch of
a modeling, fidgetty, irritating pressure, it might shrink
into impotence, or direct itself against its employer and pro-
duce national debility. He called on the house, not only
not to avoid loans, but to avoid this constant tampering and
meddling—(hear)—this constant attempt to do something
new, something novel, something grand. (Cheers.) With
those feelings, and wishing to enter his protest against the
continuance f this system, he ventured to propose the
amendment of which he had given notice, and which was
in the following terms :—" That it is not at present expe-
dient to authorise any further issue of Exchequer Bonds,
with the engagement of 'repayment within the next six
ye trs." (Cheers.)
The amendment having been seconded and put from the
chair,
Mr. J. WILSON rose, he said, to expose the numerous
errors into which Mr. Baring had fallen. He denied the
connection, which Mr. Baring had endeavoured to estab-
lish, between the financial operations of last year and the
resolution under consideration. He justified these opera-
tions, explaining the state of the national finances at
that period, the amount of the public balances, and
the object of the Chancellor of the Exchequer in his
action by means of these balances upon both the
unfunded and the funded debt. With regard to the
former, he insisted that, but for the failure of the attempt
to convert the South Sea Stocks, the operation upon Ex-
chequer-bills would have been successful ; as it was, the
result of both operations had been a reduction, in princi-
pal and interest, of the national debt; and the only point
contended for by Mr. Baring was, that better terms might
have been obtained. With regard to the transactions be-
tween the Government and the Bank of England, he ad-
mitted that each party was entitled to duo consideration
from the other; but there were questions between them
upon which discordant opinions might exist. Since 1844
the terms of their dealings had been regulated by act of
Parliament, and Mr. Wilson showed the privileges and ad-
vantages which the Bank enjoyed under this arrangement.
The question at the bottom of all these discussions, he be-
lieved, was—Were we to pay the expenses of the war from
means raised within the year, or to have recourse to loans ?
He showed, from the report of Sir Henry Parnell's com-
mittee, the consequences of a fundamental error committed
by Mr. Pitt, in 1792, by the hasty an dunnecessary adoption
of the borrowing system, which had loaded our finances
with a debt, from a large portion of which the country
had derived not a farthing of benefit. This fact, he thought,
furnished a lesson to us, and a weighty argument against
the suggestion of Mr. Baring. The issue of Exchequer-
bonds was not to be considered as an ordinary loan ; they
were temporary securities, and not to be essentially
distinguished from Exchequer-bills. But, if the
expenditure was to be defrayed by taxes raised
within the year, what, it had been asked, was this
money wanted for? He replied that new taxes were ling
in coming in, and the want of money in hand at the mo-
ment had been, during the late war, the occasion of im-
provident bargains. The resolution and the amendment
involved the whole question of enabling the Government
to lay the foundation of a system of finance so beneficial in
the conduct of a great war.
Mr. MA.LINS urged at considerable length the impru-
dence, in spite of warnings, of the measure of last year for
converting the 3 per cent. stocks ; and, in connection with
that operation, he condemned the scheme of Exchequer-
bonds, which, lie insisted, constituted a loan, as at vari-
ance with principles laid down by the Chancellor of the
Exchequer himself. He could not put the loss to the
country from his false step, he said, at less than 800,0001.
The present proposal to raise a loan of ~,000,0001. at 4 per
cent. to pay off a 3 per cent. stock would occasion a loss
of 60,0001. a year. On the subject of Bank accommodation,
Mr. Malins argued against what he considered to be falla-
cies in the views taken by the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer and Mr. 'Wilson, and, in conclusion, he predicted the
probability that the scheme now proposed might entail
hereafter a further loss of 600,0001.
Mr. LAING thought ii, necessary, after considering the
wide field into which the discussion had wandered, to re-
mind the committee that the amendment of the hon. mem-
ber for Huntingdon was, that "it was inexpedient to
authorise any further issue of Exchequer bonds, with the
engagement of repayment within six years ;" the obvious
meaning of which was that there was a probability of Go-
vernment not being able in six years to obtain facilities for
paying off such bonds. Now he could not help thinking
that if that hon. member had the same peculiar experiences
which he (Mr. Laing) had acquired by sitting at a railway
board, he would not have put forward such a proposition.
In his capacity of chairman of a railway, by no means one
of the largest in the kingdom, he had seen operations car-
ried out almost equal to those which the hon. gentleman
feared as likely to cast so heavy a burden on the country.
(Hear.) Having made some inquiries into the matter, he
(Mr. Laing) could state that the amount of the floating
loans of railway companies at the end of the year 1853 was
64,640,6681., and at the present moment it Was about
70,000,000/. The average date at which the sums making
up that total were repayable, was considerably under five
years, but more than four. Taking it, however, at the
longer date, it would be seen that it involved the annual
renewal to the railway companies of loans to the amount
of 14,000,000/. ; an operation which had been, and was
effected by those companies with perfect ease, in the open
markets of the kingdom. (Hear.) How was the opera-
tion effected? Simply by the railways availing themselves
of the enormous class of the public always on the look
out for an investment for their money, which would re-
turn them a somewhat larger interest than the public
funds. The average amount of the sums advanced to
railways was 1,5001., and the class advancing were those
who sought investments upon mortgage. A few larg3
sums were advanced by the great insurance offices. The
question was, Ought the Government of this country to feel
any apprehension in entering into competition with the
railway companies, especially when they could offer a bet-
ter security, and one more easily transferred ? He thought
that it was idle to talk of apprehension. (Hear, hear.)
But then it was said that the amount might be better
raised by means of Consols. That was really a question of
convenience. If the amount required were borrowed in
Consols, then it would be taken at 85 per cent., or 31 per
cent. interest; while, if it were borrowed upon Exchequer
Bonds, the amount of interest would be 4 per cent. But
in Consols the country would be bound to pay at par that
which was borrowed at 83, and for that reason he thought
that the Chancellor of the Exchequer had exercised a wise
discretion in the course which he had taken, for he avoided
the example of former wars, when money had been bor-
rowed upon a depreciated security. (Hear, hear.) As re-
garded the details of the carrying out of this principle, he
(Mr. Laing) felt bound to say that there were some things
to be questioned in the course of the Government. (Oppo-
sition cheers.) He thought that the wisest plan would have
been to go direct to the market with the security, and to
have had only one denomination of bond. Having, however,
said this much strictly to the question of these bonds, he
thought it right to state that, in his opinion, the motion of
the hon. member for Huntingdon (Mr. T. Baring) had, in
reality, bean used as a peg on which to hang a much wider
subject, for the subsequent discussion amounted to no-
thing more nor less than an impeachment of the whole
financial policy of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. This
virtual vote of want of confidence had been supported by
a retrospective review of the whole of the transactions in
which the right hog. gentleman had been engaged. The
greatest stress had been laid on the experiment with regard
to the conversion of a portion of the national debt. That
was undoubtedly an easy topic on which to find fault, be-
cause it was admitted on all hands that the experiment
was an unsuccessful one, which it would have been better
never to have made. et it was only fair to remember
that at the time when that experiment was made, the
public funds had been for a considerable period above par,
that a conversion had been recently successfully carried
out in a neighbouring country, and that it was a period of
great national prosperity. It was true that there had
been a slight reaction in the money market, but upon that
subject the opinions of the ablest men were much divided.
The vast amount of gold discovered in Australia, had, in
the first instance, taken money from England, and the
state of things in China led to the same result. Experience
in America had shown that the first discovery of gold
caused a temporary tightness in the money market, fol-
, lowed speedily by the other extreme. Hence it was that
persons of experience in the City were divided in
opinion, and some of them considered the time a fa-
vourable one for the experiment of the Chancellorbuot
Exchequer. (Hear, hear.) The scheme, after all, was
an experiment, and although an unsuccessful
contained
for the time, he (Mr. Laiug) believed that it
have,the
a t principleaemupon
time,which
te anb e enormousdiruini nationaldiminished.
H ed debt
hen
er would
foundthought b
et that t
ttehre
was
unsuccessful,u cell o r of f t ewEetxicidl ebqauveerw,
dsev
nhaent b
ehstoe.
ter to have closed the scheme at once (hear)
have saved all but the first loss; still, upon a mere ques-
tion of detail like that, he did not think that thecom-
mittee would agree to a sweeping vote of censure.t a
Look-
ing at this as a matter of private finance, appearedt
tob
mostaextraordinarysufficient, idea.
indeed( H e aar, ,
liberalear ba The
enea, run
hand
t
.
but that was no reason why a deficiency in one branch
should not be made good out of a surplus in another.
He (Mr. Laing) dissented from most of the criticisms passed
upon the financial experiment of last year, which was
founded upon the true principle of action upon the national
debt. Before ho could consent to the extreme measure of
censure involved in the amendment upon the whole finan-
e h
Ipoelicsay
iodf,
atthethCehagnuceealtlioornoaaf tahewhr:lceh,
ae
that. , he some errors had peen committed, could not 'hut
Exchequer,
r admitting
j he must
look,