The Sun.
London, England, 1854-12-13 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, DECEMBER 13, 1854.

between the.27th of June, and the embarkation of the
troops of Varna. He read a letter from an officer, who
said that it would be most unjust to blame the troops, or
any of the commanders, for this delay. Certainly
met
earl
hey willsy
recciveasthat because no such n
blaomehlabmuot
abtettrheesthtoe
noble
ltheook army
ei tfacts.therefore
th the attaches
firs t to
place,ths Government,
slight
fila y
l e t hiarosem
from the late Marshal St. Arnaud having thought it neces-
sary to order off aportioton
co
-operate thTehndei-
rection of the Danube,
great difficulty was experienced in obtaining an adequate
supply of flat-bottomed boats and other things required for
embarkation and disembarkation, and the greatest activity
was required on the part of Sir Edmund Lyons and Sir
George Brown, and the officers under their command, to
obtain materials, the neglect of which might huve ruined
the success of the expedition. The third and most serious
cause of delay was the breaking out of the cholera. The I
noble earl said that the orders to go to the Crimea were.;
only given after the army had been wasted by the cholera.
Again I tell the noble he is wrong. The order was given
before the cholera broke out. There may have been some
exaggeration in the touching picture drawn by the noble
' earl of the graves prepared during the night for the burials
in the morning, but I readily admit that the calamity was
most serious. It caused a considerable number of deatA
in our forces, and more, I regret to say, in those of our
French allies ; but that was not its worst effect,tfor those
who died were few compared with the number who were
so debilitated as to be unfitted for any exertion, however
slight. The army was barely recovered from this disaster
when the fleet was prepared to embark a portion of the.
troops. A sudden blast of the malady seems to have
rushed from the shore and struck the ships which were
waiting for this purpose. I believe in one of them 100
men perished of this fell disease. Acting according to,
practical experience, the ships put to sea in order to
stop the disorder. A gale came on, they were obliged
to close the hatches, and the malady increased. This
caused additional delay. At the same time let me say
that I think we suffered very little from this delay ex-
cept by the loss and debilitation of our troops. The
climate of the Crimea is very peculiar, and I have been ,
informed by a medical man well competent to judge, that '
during the summer months the neighbourhood of Yarns is I
more salubrious than any portion of the Crimea. I, there-
fore, very much doubt whether, if our troops had
gone to the Crimea at an earlier period, they would have
escaped from the calamity which befel them in Bulgaria.
My lords, with regard to the deficiency in preparation
which the noble earl charges against us, I really do not
know to what the noble earl refers, except what he has
specified—namely, the paucity of men. I can assure your
lordships that these preparations were not only immense,
but minute. I can only say that the transports collected
and sent out were such as I believe it would not have been
possible to have obtained at, any former period of the his-
tory of this country, and we were only able to obtain them
in consequence of the immense increase which has taken
place in our steam navigation within the last two or throe
years. (Hear, hear.) I only say that so far as regards
the quantity of stores and ammunition of all kinds sent
out from this country, no practical man has ever expressed
an opinion of their inadequacy, but that, on the contrary,
those who were best able to judge have pronounced them
to be quite sufficient, and in many cases they have been
more than double the quantity usually supplied. (gear.)
I said in the commencement of my observations that it
was not my intention to tell your lordships that there had
been no mistake—that I was not about to tell your lord-
ships that every arrangement had been perfect. I say at
once that it is not sufficient to prove that this immense
amount of ammunition and stores was sent *out, if they
were not rendered available at the moment when they were
wanted. And here I readily admit that mistakes have
been made, and that difficulties have arisen, which I hope
in the further progress of the war will be altogether
avoided. The noble earl speaks of this expedition to the
Crimea as if the force which was carried across those seas
was so small and trivial in amount as not to be worth
speaking of. The noble nail forgets the operation of em-
bark diou. He forgets still more the admirable and suc-
cessful manner in which that great armament was disem-
barked. The English force alone amounted to 27,000 men.
The French farce amounted to 24,000 men. I am now speak-
ing of the forces which were carried across at one particular
time, and which were disembarked within 'a few hours
of each other. And, besides these numbers, there was a
body of about 8,000 Turks attached to the French army,
Here was a body of nearly 60,000 men, landed at once upon
the shores of the Crimea; and I believe the records of his-
tory do not chew such a successful accomplishment of an
undertaking upon so great a scale. (Cheers.) My lords,
,then came the battle of Alma. The noble earl, with his
accattomed eloquence, has dwelt upon the efforts and cou-
rage of our troops, and on that point I will not at this
moment add anything to What he has said. Then followed
the march to Balaklava, which was so justly characterised
by my noble frond who moved the address. I now come
to the charge made by the noble earl with reference to the
want of reinforcements. I have already stated that when
the expedition to the Crimea was decided ripen, the origi-
nal force of Lord Raglan's army, which amounted to some-
thing not much short of 30,000 men, was increased by
about 7,000 additional troops. The noble earl says that
no reinforcements were subsequently sent until, I think,
after the battle of Inkerman. The noble earl again is not
correct. Ido not wish to enter into figures. Ido net
wish to take advantage of any small mistakes on the part
of the noble earl. But I will attempt to explain to the
house why it was impeseible to send out larger reinlerce-
meets, evert if larger reinforcements bad been considered
necessary. The noble earl is not correct in his assertion,
for reinforcements were prepared as soon as possible; and
before the news of the battle of Alms arrived in this coun-
try, a force of between 6,000 and 7,000 men was under
orders to proceed to the Crimea. The noble earl alluded
to the period when the Prince steamer sailed from this
country. That vessel carried out the first portion of the
reinforcements to which I have alluded, as well as the
stores to which I shall presently advert, and if the re-
mainder of this reinforcement of 7,000 men did not pro-
ceed with the same rapidity with which the previous rein-
forcements had been sent out to Lord Raglan, it was
becanselhe whole of our available steam-transports had
been sent to the Crimea. Others were coming in no doubt
from foreign countries, from the colonies, and from dis-
tant parts of the world, and as they came in they were
taken up by the Government, but at the moment when
these 7,000 men were ready to be embarked we had not
steam-transports for their conveyance. (Hear, hear.)
Look at the ;position of our great ally—our great and
powerful military ally. France has now collected a very
powerful army; but was it not the fact at the commence-
ment of hostilities that they were unable to send those re-
inforcements which they are now pouring in ? (Hoar.)
Look, again, at that power which, I rejoice to say, we may
call our ally—l allude to Austria—look at that military
power. What has Austria been doing during the last 4
or 5 months? Was that country in an effective state to
take the field when war was declared by this countiy? Cer-
tainly not ; and if they had been obliged, as we were, to
send a force into the field, is it not notorious that they
would have been obliged to send one much more inadequate,
much weaker, much less fitted for service than it is now
able to do ? Cheers.) If that be the case with great
military nations—nations whose whole military system is
based upon conscription—what must it be with a couniry
whose militarysystem rests entirely upon voluntary enlist-
ment ? This country never undertook a war under the
circumstances in which the present war have been under-
taken. The siege of Sebastopol commenced, after a con-
siderable amount of preparation, on the 17th of October.
It soon afterwards became apparent, from the intelligence
which reached this country, that the siege was likely to be
more protracted than I readily admit the Government at
first expected it would be. (Hear.) If any blame attaches
to the Government in that respect, I readily admit that we
did hope and believe that ]ongbefore the period at which
we have now arrived that fortress would have fallen, and
if we erred in that expectation—if we were over-confident in
our4eelief—we erred with many men of great experience in
war, and men whose opinions were well worthy of consid-
eration ; and we erred with the public at large, both in
this country and in France. (Hear.) My lords, from the
moment it appeared that the siege was likely to be pro-
tracted, every exertion was made by the Government to
obtain reinforcements, and to send them out as fast as
possible to the Crimea. And here, again, I am ready to ad-
mit that, under any other circumstances than those which
have occurred, these reinforcements ought not to have
been sent, because the troops which have gone out have
arrived too recently in this country to be effectively re-
cruited, and they have been sent not trained as efficiently
as we could have desired them to be. Ido not hesitate to
say—your lordships may blame me if you will—l do net
hesitate to say that it has been my duty to order those
troops to proceed to the East with very great diffidence ;
but the Government has done so because they felt that the
exigency of the moment required that every possible exer-
tion should be made to succour our brave troops. And
when you blame the Government for not having sent those
reinforcements sooner, let me tell you this, that those ge-
nerals on the spot who are the best competent to judge did
not desire to have raw recruits, such as those which have
been sent out prematurely; they wield rather have had
them reserved for the next campaign, unless those events
had arisen which have rendered their services necessary,
which have induced Lord Raglan to press for them, and
which have induced the Government to send them with-
out any delay. (Hear, hear.) My lords, that events have
turned out differently from what we contemplated, in
more respects than one, I have already admitted. I con-
fess we did not expect that Russia's power of reinforcing
her troops before Sebastopol was so great as it has proved
to be. We did not doubt her military power. We were
aware of that power, but undoubtedly we did not expect
that an army could have been moved from Odessa to Se-
bastopol with such marvellous rapidity ; and probably
some of your lordships will be surprised to hear that, from
the extraordinary efforts of the Russian troopi, from the
means which they possessed in moving their forces, their
marches were effected at such a rapid rate, that in one day
a march of 'forty-two miles was accomplished. I may be
considered imprudent in making these confessions; but I
wish to deal frankly with your lordships. (Hear, hear.)
I have said we do not profess perfection. Iwanmaef
resee
admit an error—if error we have committed. Pirneokr.odaridodfY nengtnheottore
siege st
calculate upon the power of Russia to sendfnoknnurerei
to h
aSebastopolheen i n
protractedtim e for
threetle eofrl
we might have expected them, but certainly did not
ex-
pect them at the time of their arrival. I can only say
that we did not form our opinions upon any haphaaardor
guess work, but we took the best opinions which we were
able to obtain in this country—the opinions of those most
likely to be able to inform uses to the means and capabili-
ties of the Russian forces, and of the character of the country
through which they had to pass. Now, what havebeen the
reinforcements which in reality have been sent out from
this country ? These reinforcements have been greatly un-
derrated by the noble earl. Since the month of Juneineee
than 20,000 men have been sent from this country to the
army under Lord Raglan, and of that number 12,3,0 have
been forwarded within the last two months. I believesonte
of your lordships will be surprised when I tell you that the
whole number of men from the time of the commencement
of hostilities down to the present time—including a few
who are about to proceed—the whole number of men, in-
cluding officers, will have exceeded 53,000. (Hear, hear.)
When you consider that this is in reality an army sent out
,almost upon a peace establishment—and what I mean bye
peace establishment is this—that the increase of the army
has hardly yet become available, inasmuch as it has been
made subsequent to the 29th of March, when the declara-
tion of hostilities was made—when you recollect that not
many months age we were told that in the event of an in-
vasion not 10,000 men of the regular army could bebreught
t,,ondesfuolimcfhdthaoifsuorer
country
uent shores—andtoy theon
gChrtiuitoeab;
alityl:eo nI ddoerrnot think, the exer-
tionsated or that in re-
opearlrailtt.itolen(has been done as has been represented by the
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ato
t
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tbohtfe Atvcihraomshzr
monanayny former occasion within the
hear.) The noble earl of
an
yritish troops were ever sent
speech to the inadequate English general. (Hear,
has alluded in the course of his
poY inohwi etdhheisrhaanvoudehbejeetehente,rsseisantootwrctiesimoVemwthisouutophapployvLeofv....ihay storese h oe
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enormous amount of gun-
powder
shipped for the

seat of war, but after trespassing so long on your lordships'
attention Ido not wish to go into details. If any ques-
tion should arise at any future period I shall be prepared
tq go into that subject.
The Earl of DERBY intimated that he had not made
any complaint on the subject.
The Duke of NE WC.A.STLE —But the noble earl is aware
that the Government has been taxed with neglect in this
respect, although not by him or in this house. If I touch
upon any question which has not been alluded to by the
noble earl, I think yOur lordships will not consider that I
am dealing unfairly if, at this early stage of the debate, I
enter into some details with which it is more particularly
my province to be acquainted, for the purpose of refuting
the accusations which have been made. With regard to the
provision of ordnance, 62 guns were sent oat at the com-
mencement of the war. There were also sent out two com-
plete battery trains of 42 guns, with an enormous supply
of shot and shell, seven nine pounder batteries, and two
troops of royal horse artillery. I believe that on no former
occasion was such a quantity of ordnance supplied to a
British army within so short a period. The whole amount
of small ammunition sent to the army is 22,933,000 rounds,
of which 18,000,000 rounds were Millie ammunition. But
still the Government do not feel satisfied with having sent
out that quantity, but are continually sending more as
ships can be obtained, for the purpose. What I have stated
to your lordships by no means represents the force at the
disposal of Lord Raglan, even as regards guns and ammu-
nition, for from Malta there have been sent 42 large guns
and mortars, 9,000 shells, and 27,000 round shot, princi-
pally of very large size. (Hear.) I now come to a matter
on which the noble earl commented with considerable seve-
rity. The noble earl said that we had shown no foresight
as regards the requirements of the troops in clothing, and
that on the 17th October the first supply of warm clothing
arrived in the Crimea. The noble earl is quite correct with
regard to that single fact, but I think the noble earl will
not deny that if the supply sent out in the Prince had ar-
rived at its destination there would not have bee' much
reason to complain of the privations of the army, considering
the character of the climate and the period of the year when
warm clothing becomes necessary in the Crimea. I have no
hesitation in saying that supplies of warm clothing were
sent out in time, and, but for the great calamity which
befel the Prince, the whole army would have been supplied
before any suffering from cold could have arisen. The
orders for the supply of the warm clothing were given by
myself in the months of July and Augast, and they were
sent out as soon as the orders could be executed and steam-
ers could be provided. [The noble duke here enumerated
the articles sent out in the Prince, amongst which were
35,700 pairs of woollen socks, 53,000 woollen shirts, 2,500
watch coats to go over the ordinary great coats, 16,000
blankets, and 3,750 rugs. The noble duke then went on
to read a statement of the total number of articles sent out,
from which it appeared that the number of pairs of socks
amounted to 150,000 socks ; of woollen shirts, 100,000 ;
of pairs of flannel drawers, 9),000; of woollen gloves,
80,000 pairs ; besides about 40,0j0 railway wrappers ;
40 000 waterproof capes; 40,000 fur coats ; and 12,000
1 pairs of seal-skin boots.] To show that the Government
I was not negligent, I may mention that, on hearing of the
loss of the Prince by telegraphic message, they sent off
messengers to Glasgow, Nottingham, Leicester, and the
woollen manufacturing districts, to purchase up all the
•stores which they could lay their handaen, for the purpose
of supplying the loss arising from the wreck of the Prince,
and before authentic intelligence arrived of that disaster a
great portion of the goods were on the way to their desti-
nation. (Cheers.) Huts have been ordered for the accom-
modation of the troops, and independent of those to be
sent from Turkey, Malta, and France, 11,500 have already
been sent from this country. The noble earl, in alluding
to the condition of the army, stated that the men were
nearly in rags. It is undoubtedly the fact that, in conse-
quence of the exposure of the men, their uniforms are
nearly worn out ; but this was anticipated, and before any
representations were made on the subject, complete new
suits of uniforms were ordered for the whole army in the
Crimea. Extra rations had been servel out to the troops,
consisting of meat, spirits, and vegetables, awl no deduc-
tion had been made for them in any one instance. (Hear.)
Let me remark on one observation which fell from the noble
earl opposite, in which he said that the army was half-
starved. I must entirely deny that statement. Accidents
have occurred; I admit that everything has not been per-
fect. I can confidently assert that there has not been a
single day, except perhaps that of the first march after the
disembarkation, on which the regular rations have not been
supplied. They may perhaps have had salt provisions more
frequently than could be desired, but I think your lord-
ships will admit that the peculiarity of the service justifies
this circumstance, and, perhaps, it is only wonderful that
the commissariat has been able to supply so large a quan-
tity of fre-./1 rations, which I believe have been furnished
not less than three or four times a week.

The'Es,rl of DERBY made some observations with re- 1
spect to the men having gone into the battle of Liken:eau '
without having had their food supplied, but his lordship
was barely audible in the gallery.
The Duke of NEWCASTLE—That only enhances the ,
merit of the trqpps. • The British corps engaged upon that ;
occasion were roused from their quarters se unexpectedly
that they had not received their breakfasts, and it was uu-
til a late hour of the afternoon that they continued fight-
ing, as the noble earl supposes, without food. My lords, I
believe that it is unnecessary to make any statement with
reference to the commissariat beyond what I have already
Raid-with reference to the supply of rations and the condi-
tion of the army. I now come to tie medical department.
Here, again, let us bear in mind the position in which this
department was at the commencement of the war. lam
not about to defend, quite the reverse, but I say that these
defects were consequent on that ill-judged economy which
prevented the establishment of an efficient medical depart-
ment in time of peace—(hear)—and the blame is not to be
attached to those officers under whose orders the medical
department has acted, still less to the department itself.
In what a different position has it had to act compared
with our gallant allies. The French have an organised hos-
pital corps. We at the commencement of the war had none.
(Rear.) We had even no code of hospital regulations. The
whole thing had to be created de novo, and under these air-
circumstances it is almost wonderful that greater blunders
have not been committed and greater calamities incurred.
My lords, what is the number of the medical officers at
-the present moment serving with the arveyl. -The staff of
medical officers is 280; the ri.gimentalreargeons nuMber.
192, and the ordnance 14 ; making a total of 486 ; and 14
have since been sent out, making in all 493, which gives,
according to the present estimated strength of the army,
one surgeon to every seventy-seven men—about double
the number which s rued with the army in former wars.
lam not going to compare this service with what it was
fifty years ago, in order to show what improvements have
been made, or that the system is itself perfection—quite
the reverse. I believe that there is a great deal to be done,
and that great improvements may yet be made on the
present system. The quantity of lint sent out for the
army was 26,5134 lbs. Now, my lords, this immense num-
ber of pounds may not convey to your minds, any more
than it did to my own, an accurate impression of the
quantity sent out. It will, perhaps, enable your lord-
ships to form a better idea if I state that this quantity
would cover thirty-six acres of ground. Linen bandages
and other articles were sent out in similar proportion.-
Great exaggeration with regard to these deficiencies has
been made to the public, and I believe that they have all
been on a much smaller scale than the noble earl opposite
appears to suppose. The noble earl said that when the
nurses arrived at Scutari they were unable to supply one
bottle of wine.

The Earl of DERBY.—My information was derived
from one of the nurses.
The Duke of NEWCASTLE.—If that statement was
derived from one of the nurses it must be true, for I can-
not believe that any one of those noble women would state
otherwise. My lords, 1 wish to impress on your minds
that there have notbeen those defects of supply which might
~ have been expected from that statement. The quantity sent
out of this article, which the noble earl stated was so de-
ficient, was this, 4,080 dozens of port wine have been sent
out for the use of the hospitals, and by far the greater por-
tion was in store, so far as we know, before the arrival of
the wounded. For the better administration of these hos-
pitals, we have arranged that a general officer should go
out to take the charge of them, and of military affairs at
Scutari, and with a view of completing the organisation of
the medical system ; and we have also sent a commission
of three gentlemen for the purpose of inquiring into all
complaints which have been made on these subjects, not so
much with a view of condemning and punishing indivi-
duals, but for the purpose of ascei taiuing the defects of the
system, and enabling us to rectify them. I am sorry to
ffnd that an opinion has gone abroad that this commission
has been sent out for the purpose of boistering up a defec-
t tive system. I think, my lords, I have proved that such
an idea could never have been entertained by Government,
or that such a disposition animates the gentlemen ou that
commission. Whatever report is made, I am confident
that they will not be influenced by such a desire. (Hear.)
Dr. Spence was unfortunately lost on board the Prince,
and it was thought that he would be animated by such a
desire as that which I have alluded to, inasmuch as he had.
been an assistant to Dr. Smith. My lords, what were the
steps taken to fill up the vacancy thus occasioned ? The
commissioners had power to fill up any vacancy in their
number, and they proposed to the Rev. SydneyGedolphin
Osborne to join them in the commission. Now, my lords,
whatever may be thought of that reverend gentleman in
other respects, he has always shown himself an ardent in-'
vestigator of abuses, and in his hands the Government or
the medical department were not likely to receive lenient
treatment. My lords, when the complaints first reached
this country of the state of the hospitals at Scutari, we
again directed our attention to the plan of sending out
nurses, and we entrusted the organisation of that estab-
lishment to hands which, humanly speaking, must minx,
success ; and I cannot give too high praise to those ladies
who have so nobly velnnteeredtheir services.. They have
left comfortable, and in most instances luzetriems homes,
for the purpose of adopting a profession most distasteful
to women of delicate minds, in the hope of assuaging
the sufferings of their countrymen, and fulfilling a high
Christian duty. The noble earl opposite said that he had
been informed that the Admiralty had been warned
that the captain of the Prince was utterly incapable
for such duties, and that no ship ought to have been sent
out in the command of such an officer. When I heard of
the delay in the discharge of the cargo? I immediately
wrote to Lord Raglan, and stated that the impression on any
mind was that great blame must be attached to some de-
partment. I requested him to make an immediate inquiry
into the causes of that disaster. Of course no answer has
yet been received ; but I have been informed by a person
who was present during the storm that the state of the sea
was such that it was impossible to take that ship into the
narrow harbour of Balaklava, or to discharge the cargo on
board ; and it was only by the assistance of smaller steam-
vessels that the six companies of the 46th Regiment could
be landed. Now, my lords, with reference to the other
statement of the incompetency of the captain of that ves-
sel, until the noble earl made that statement I was not
aware that such an accusation had been made, and I never
heard one word of it before. It is, however, most desirable
Theythatsteam-shippingcompanyhadwhichfullestPrincehadconfidencebelonged.command.
There were two other naval officers placed in the vessel,
and they were both on board at the time of the accident. I
believe that the house will not now condemn the unfortu-
nate officer who was in command of that vessel, still less
will they condemn the Board of Admiralty, who appear to
.have taken every possible precaution. In other respects to
increase the facilities of conveyance of stores to the army,
which has been found so difficult during the dry season,
and which will be much greater at this period of the year,
we are sending out a'complete railroad with all appliances,
and a staff to save the labour of the troops. For this pur-
pose we applied at once to the firm of Messrs. Peto and
Betts, well knowing that private enterprise often succeeded
where the Government might fail. These gentlemen at once
offered to place all their resources at our disposal for this
purpose, but with only one condition, that they should not
derive one farthing of profit from the contract, only sending
in bills to the Treasury as they caine in to thorn. (Hear.)
It is only justice to state thus much with respect to the
conduct of these gentlemen. I have seen a statement this
morning—l allude to a circular sent round to the party of

which the noble lord is at the head ; and notwithstanding •
the " critical position" ofaffairs, I hope your lordships will
not think that Government is dispirited, or, what is still
more important, that your lordships will imagine that our
brave men, with their gallant general, are discouraged.
My lords, I feel that our gallant army is beyond any praise
of mine. The time has been when it was thought that
there existed a feeling of jealousy between army and
navy; but if that were so, it does not exist at the pre-
sent moment. So far from jealousy, the navy has shown—
and I speak not of admirals, or captains, or officers, but of
the navy generally—a thorough anxiety to assist in every
way possible the sister service. They knew that the sea-
men of Russia were beyond their power, and they knew
that they had no opportunity of proving that they were
einulouseto rival the fame obtained by the sailors under
Nelson—to prove that the captains and sailors of the fleet
of the present day had not degenerated—they knew that
those Russian ships now in the harbour were out of the
way of becoming honourable prizes to the ships of France
and England; and finding that this glory was not to be
theirs, they lost no opportunity of slaving and toiling for
the army. (Hear.) To them it was owing that, after the
battle hour, when the wounded lay extended for miles
along the shore, and the means of carrying them were in-
sufficient, the soldiers were treated and conveyed with ten-
derness and brought on board the ships. I rejoice to think
that the seamen and marines of the fleet have been enabled
to take part in the siege of Sebastopol, and to prove that
they are as gallant onshore as the soldier himself. (Cheers.)
Then with respect to our Allies, with regard to whom fears
were at the first moment expressed that we would look upon
each other with mutual distrust, the greatest cordiality and '
friendship existed between Lord Raglan and Marshal St.
Arnaud while he lived, and Gen. Canrobert ever since. But
this cordiality and friendship not crely existed between the
generals and principal officers, but between the subalterns
and common soldiers. Side by side they fought ; side by
side they lay together in moments of suffering and disease.
Never before, under any circumstances, have two nations,
between whom amity subsisted, stern a more thorough
co-operation than those gallant soldiers. (Hear.) There
were not wanting those why had prophesied that the mili-
tary character of this country had perished with the long
peace ; who said that years of refinement had so reduced
our energies that when war should come our soldiers
would succumb, and that we should never again make head
against those who had been trained under a snore military
system. But that is not the case. Laxury has not weak-
ened the character ef the aristocracy or gentry of this
country. (Cheers.) Tha noble earl (the Earl of Derby)
has appealed in eloquent terms to the loss we have sus-
tained, and it has been my painful duty, on more than
one occasion, to break the sad tidings of the loss of rela-
tions to those to whom they were most dear. The men,
one and all, fell gloriously in the service of their country.
(Cheers.) We are told that it is the privilege of the Eng-
lishman to grumble, but it is we, who indulge in luxury
at home, why grumble. What has been the conduct of
those who have been exposed to the changes of climate
and to the ravages of disease ? They have borne all with
the most enduring patience. Nothing-could be more
touching than the incident of that stalWart soldier in
the hospital, who, when the nurses attended him, with
tears in his eyes exclaimed—" This is, indeed, like Eng-
land now ; she is a country which cares for her poor
wounded creatures." (Hear, hear.) They have shown
themselves as superior as Christians to those whom they
were fighting against, as they are superior as soldiers. I
hope I may be allowed to say a word respecting the illus-
trious commander-in-chief. No one bat one who has
been in constant communication with him can form
any accurate notion of his merits. Greatly as he is
valued in this country, his full merits will not be
known until his despatches, and perhaps his private
letters, which are in the custody of myself and of his
family, are made public. (Hear, hear.) It would be most
insulting to Lord Raglan to speak of his courage, for that
ho possesses in common with ,all the other officer..; but he
hasiehown greater qualities than this ; and nothing is more
eminent than that characterised the other day by a gen-
tleman who had seen him under circumstances of trial, as
the "divine calm" with which he spoke when he learned
the disastrous intelligence of the loss caused by the storm,
and that his army was deprived of a most valuable part
of its transports. (Hear.) It may be my duty on an early
day to refer to thessrvices of Lord Raglan, but I could not
avoid some slight allusion to them on this occasion. The
noble E trl (the Earl of Derby) has put a question which
he said might probably be beyond the province of a mem-
her of this house, whether, as we wore 11)W about reward-
ing the services of our missy, and when the admiration of
the Sovereign was expressed, some expression of the admi-
ration of the Sovereign and people of this country for the
army of our brave ally should not be conveyed to it. I
know not whether it be beyond the province of the noble
earl to ask the question, but it obliges me to make a state-
ment. Her Majesty has not required the suggestion of
anybo-ly in this matter. (Cheers.) About a fortnight or
three weeks ego I received her Majesty's command to con-
vey to Lord Raglan her intention to confer the order of
the Bath on General Caurobert, and to convey that deter-
mination either to the ambassador of the Emperor of the
French, or to the Emperor himself, and that has been de-
layed because it was not felt that the compliment would
be complete to him if not offered at the same time as our
own soldiers. (Hear, hear.) My lords, I believe it is the
resolution of this country to prosecute the war, and I con-
fidently approve that resolution. (Cheers.) I look around
sue, and I see hardly a dissentient. I look to Ireland, and
I look to the colonies, and I see in each and all the most
gratifying testimony of approval and support. Canada
contributes largely to the Patriotic Fund, and this not
merely for this country, but equally for the profit of
the army of France as that of England, thus showing
the complete identification that has been effected
in the allied forces. The army has nobly done its duty,
and the country is prepared to do its duty. (Cheers.)
I am not afraid that we shall suffer any harsh judgment
for our acts. The people are generous and knit, and I will
only say that I, for one, will rejoice at any amount of
pressure which may be applied to me by every party In
the country, and by the noble lord opposite, for I see
proofs that there is everywhere a determination to carry on
the war with vigour, and all the efforts made on our part
will be seconded by Parliament and the people. (Cheers.)
I am conscious that there are many who could better have
tiedertajrcu the heavy duties vehich haVe fallen on me, and
imeteroften reflected on tleer feet that I as-a eiviliee ehould
be called on to administer the affairs of the army : but still
I have felt that, with the exception of the commander-in-
chief, there is at this moment in the country hardly any
experienced generals who have taken the lead in active
war. They are all in active service, and with the single
exception of my noble friend we have not the benefit of
the assistance of any one possessing military experience.
I assure your lordships I have no object but that of bring-
ing the war to a successful termination, and to attain that
object everyeffort shall be made. There are necessarily re-
verses in a war, and we must expect some reverses on our
part ; and should reverses come, I believe the country and
the Government will alike bear them. It is said that
Englishmen never know when they are beaten, and I are
convinced that when we complete our success we shall
prove that the saying is a true one. (Hear.) I will new
explain the objects for which Parliament was called toge-
ther for this short session. As the noble earl rightly antici-
pated, we propose to bring in a bill to enable the militia
regiments to volunteer their services abroad. The object
of that is obvious ; it is to enable us to remove to the seat
of war the regiments in garrison in Malta, Gibraltar, and
the lonian Islands. As that bill will be in the House of
Commons immediately, and will before long come up to
your lordships house, I will not farther referto it. I shall
have
of
flaYianig on the table a bill to enable her
Majesty n foreign troops to a limited num-
ber. the
tpoo
drillwer
and train
We cannot at present drill or train foreign troops in
this country, and we believethat, as oeformeroccasions, it
would be advantageous to have that power, for troops so
drilled and trained might join an army, though the number
could not be very considerable. There is another measure
which would not require the sanction of Parliament, but
which we consider necessary—it is that of increasing the
organisation of our regiments by adding four companies to
each regiment on foreign service, thee raising the com-
panies to sixteen. Great inconvenience was felt in sending
reinforcements to an army 3,000 miles distant, anti there-
fore it was most desirable tohave reserves at Malta or else-
where. It is proposed iu raising these four companies,
with the view to encourage the enlistment of the militia,
that commissions be given to each battalion on bringing a
certain number of men. Noble lords will see that we are
giving considerable encouragement to enlistment. We
propose to increase our tworille regiments byone battalion
each. The services of these troops have been found most
efficient, and we believe it will be eery desirable to in-
crease their strength by one battalioneach. I trust it will
not be necessary to depart from that glory of England,
voluntary enlistment. My noble friend the general com-
manding in chief has, with the consent of her Majesty's
Government, given to each battalion two officers' com-
missions for the sergeants in Lord Raglan's army. It was
given after the battle of Alma, and it will be • • given again.
This encouragement to the soldiers will be found to k
work
well. Lord Raglan has also conferred the good service
pension en the non-commissioned officers under him, and
every exertion will be madeto increase the efficiency of the
force. (Cheers.) As the noble earl has entered onall these
points, I felt it my duty to explain them as well as lay in
my power. I have endeavoured to admit defects, not to
extenuate faults, and to lay before your lordships what I
believe to be a correct statement of what the Government
has done, and if blame attaches to any, it is certainly not
to the army, nor to any man serving his country abroad.
(Hear, hear.) I assure your lordships that wo lsok to
prosecute this war, if we continue to possess the confi-
dence of Parliament, with firm resolve anti unflinching
perseverance. Ido not understand what is meant by
moderate counsels." (Cheers,) I say we are prepared to
prostcute the war with firm receive and unflinching firmness.
We will not reject overtures of peas*, but we willnot
consent to any but an honourable peace. We have the
fullest confidence in our army, and in our noble people,
and in the firmness and friendship of our powerful and
generous Ally, and we do not fear the least for the result.
(Cheers.) We have full confidence in the Ruler of the
destinies of nations, and we have the highest hope of
bringing the contest to a satisfactory issue. It is not for
us to determine the time when it will be possible to bring
such a war to a close; but we will bring it to such a close
as will give repose to civilisation, and security to those
nations.of Europe which have been thrown into confusion
by the act of one aggressive Sovereign. (Cheers.)
Earl GREY haring been one of those who objected to
the policy of engaging in war in the first instance, was
which he
anxious to
thought should be unanimously adopted. Al.
though his opinion was against the original policy of the
war, and though that opinion was not altered, but rather
confirmed, he thought that, being onee embarked in it,
there was no alternative but to carry it on with the utmost
vigour and firmness. (Cheers.) He should therefore cor-
dially vote for the address to her Majesty, pledging the
house to second with all the energy in their power the
efforts of her Majesty's Government in carrying on the
present contest. lie was glad to say that, while he de-
plored all the misery and waste of human life, and of those
resources which might have been employed for the general
improvement of mankind, he found that in all this evil
there was some good. He rejoiced that it had been proved
that the British nation had not degenerated. The noble
duke at the head of the War Department had, in the
nionse whichaddress, appeared to him (Earl Grey) to be exceed-
ingly erroneous. The noble duke had al
so said that some
gentlemen connected with railways were about to send
out labourers and all the
• apparatus necessary for the
construction of
a railwayfrom Balaklava to the camps,
iii order to provide the means of carrying up with
arm
greater facility the stores for they. Was it not
rather late in the day to attempt this kind of work ?
and was not the idea
an obvious one from the first?
Then, amai •
n, it was only a few days sincethat thefirst
supply
supply of wooden huts for the men had been sent out. They could not expect to be put up in the Crimea before
at least the middle of by
January, and that period the
greater part of the winter would have passed aw;:v. But
surely this was a want which could have been fOrest-en ;
for if the troops hatl remained
taken S_bastopol, 0: wilitule I in
~.,:„..,.; 01 sae
Black Sea, huts for the
winter would have still been ne-
cessary for the comfort and health of the troops. (Cheers.) I
If, too, the large fleet sent to the Baltic wai not intended

to attack gie fortifications of the principal towns, it was '
obvious that a much smaller number of ships would have
been sufficient for maintaining an effective blockade,
while a large portion of the force sent to the Baltic might
have been used to better purpose in the Black Sea. Not
being prepared ,with a large force of gun-boats was also
another great oversight which could easily have been fore-
seen. As soon as there was real cause to apprehend hos-
tilities with Russia, a large number of those gunboats
should have been put in hand. If we had had this flotilla
of small gun-boats ready, it could have prevented the Rus-
sians from obtaining supplies by the Sea of Azof, the
shallow waters of which prevented our larger ships from
establishing there an efficient blockade. He could not
understand why, when the expedition was sent to the
Crimea measures should not have been taken to prevent
Odessa being able to assist the forces of Russia. The noble
duke had said that it was proposed to reward the troops
in the Crimea by giving commissions in each .regi-
ment to deserving non-commissioned officers. He was
happy to hear that the Government intended to reward the
troops in this manner, but trusted they would not in
this repeat the old precedent of giving ensigns' commis-
sions to sergeantt. The plan was one which would not be
found to answer. The effect of such a system was to put a
man well advanced in life, who knew a great deal about
the army, and was used to a great deal of responsibility, in
the company of a number of young ensigns—boys of 18 or
19, without any responsibility, and who were, in fact, only
beginning to learn their profession. He trusted, therefore,
that in giving to sergeants these well-merited rewards for
their gallant conduct in the field, they would se far depart
from their former precedent as to give commissions as
captains at least. They would then give a position of re-
spectability, and with it the means of supporting that po-
sition. He had known many instances of sergeants hav-
ing been promoted for good conduct to ensigncies who had
been ruined lay such promotion. (Cheers.)
The Duke of ARGYLL said he did not think her Ma-
jesty's Government had any reason to complain of the mode
in which the discussion upon the address had been carried
on, and in the criticisms passed upon the conduct of the
Government noble lords bad shown nothing whatever of a
factious spirit. Some of the noble lords who had addressed
the house had, however, in his opinion, while criticising
the minor details, entirely-lost sight of the greater and
more important features of the case, as it presented itself
to the notice both of the Government and of the country.
The remarks as to the unnecessary force in the Baltic were
also quite unfounded ; for when Sir Charles Napier first
sailed for the Baltic he had with him bet 17 line-of-battle
ships, while it was known that the Russians had not less
than 27 in their harbours. Every exertion had been made
to get that fleet ready for sea; and if the labour in the
dockyards had been diverted to the building of gun-boats,
they would not have been able to get the larger ships ready
for sea. The noble earl, in his remarks on the forbearance
of our navy at Odessa, was not more fortunate. He con-
tended that, if ever there was a war which was of European
interest, this was that war ; sect not only was this our con-
viction, but it was their conviction ; and yet, in spite of
th it conviction, we saw they were lagging behind us in the
honourable course of asserting the independence of Europe
and resisting the aggression of Russia. He confessed he
hat derived the impression, from a consideration of the
transactions of the last few months, that the fear of that
power was in every Cabinet, and was pursuing all tho
peoples of Europe, and that the time was come when a
united stand should be made against this aggression, and
that it was the duty and the privilege of the two Great
Western' Powers to take the lead in that great contest.
(Hear, hear.) He contended that it was the universal
feeling of the people throughout this country that this
was a war net only of justice, but of necessity. (Hoar,
hear.)

The Earl of HARDWICKE said he thought the result
of the debate was, that they.stood very much in the same
position as when it began, namely, that at the outset of
this great war the Government of this country were not
prepared in the first instance to carry it on with that
vigour which the occasion demanded. The noble duke
(the Duke of Newcastle) had made the important admis-
sion that the invasion of the Russian dominions was a por-
tion of the original plan of the Government in carrying
on the war. If that were so, he submitted the Govern.
ment were not justified in saying they were prepared to
carry nut an undertaking of that description. The noble
duke (Argyll) had stated that gun-boats alone would
have been of no use in the Baltic ; but he (the Earl of
Hardwicke) would remind the noble duke that between
Cronstadt and St. Petersburg there was a flat of water
ten or twelve miles long, about nine miles in breadth,
and five feet deep; and he thought that a squadron
of gun-boats would have operated with great effect on
Cronstadt, and even on St. Petersburg. It would be too
late next year for any operation of that sort. For him-
self, he never expected that Sir Charles Napier would
attempt to deal with the strong fortresses of Cronstadt and
St. Petersburg • but ho knew well that if the admiral met
the Russian fleet in the open sea he would have a good ac-
count to give of them. He wholly absolved Sir Charles
Napier from anything like misconduct or neglect. He
thought that he had very ably conducted back our fleet
without disaster, and believed that if he had attempted
any attack upon the stronghold disaster was likely to have
ensued. The only fault to be found with his gallant friend
was that there bad been a little too much jollification and
signalling, which bad led the public to expect more than
had bees accomplished. What was to be the cud of the
war ? The original object was to drive the Russians out of
Turkey, and so keep them out ; but by the invasion of the
enemy's country, and the attack upon Sebastopol, the cha-
racter of the war had been entirely changed. He wished
success might attend our arms for the sake of the honour
of the country; but his opinion was that if Sebastopol
were taken we should be further from peace than we were
now.

The Earl of CARLISLE wished to make a few obser-
vations with regard to the views taken in the country with
regard to the causes of the war. In the first place, hd
agreed entirely with everything that had been said respect-
ing the admirable conduct, the brilli tnt valour, and the
steady devotedness of the sister services, and of the army
more especially, as upon it had devolved the greater share
of the labour. To the army it had been reserved to exhibit
some of the most distinguished excellences which had
marked the various epochs of the world, and they had dis-
played the steady devotion of the heroes of anviquity„ and
the solitary valour bf the day. of chivalry. (Heat; heat.)
The war, however, having commenced, it was, he felt, the
commoli 'risk of all that it should be carried ou with all
possible vigour, in order to insure, at the earliest period,
an honourable and durable peace. The spirit and energy
of the country were fairly roused, and there was, he
thought, no danger whatever that any Ministry could fail
in vigour or constancy in supporting to the utmost the
power of our gallant troops. He hoped the Government
would bear in mind that an honourable and durable peace
might be obtained iwithout insisting upon extreme terms,
and that the feeling of the country would ultimately be
in favour of those who obtained such a peace at the earliest
opportunity.

- -
The Earl of ABERDEEN.—My lords, I should be sorry
to detain your lordships at this late hour for any length
of time, but I feel bound to make a few observations in
reply to the complaint of the noble earl opposite. He said
that the war was undertaken in the defence of the liberty
of the Turkish empire ; but, ho added, you have changed
the whole character of the war, and this expedition to
Sebastopol has removed you from the possibility of obtain-
ing what you desire. Now, I humbly beg to remind the
noble earl that if there be one point more than another
more vital to the safety and indepentience of the Turkish
empire, and more clearly injurious to the power of Russia,
it is the destruction of the fort of Sebastopol. (Hear,
hear.) Having driven the Russians out of the Principali-
ties, the next direct object of the war, which everybody
must have had in view from its very commencement, and
which we could only have been restrained in by a doubt of
its practicability, was the attack and destruction of Sebas-
topol. (Hear, hoar.) Notwithstanding the eager desire
and expectation with which this country viewed the
first landing in the 'Crimea and its immediate con-
sequences—mistaken as they have been—a mistake in
which all Europe shared at the time—still I think
that there aro good grounds to hope that success will attend
our efforts—(hear, hear) ;—and I totally disagree from the
noble earl in thinking that the prospect of peace will bo
diminished by that success. Quito the contrary; I feel
satisfied that nothing could contribute so much to the pro-
bability of obtaining those terms of peace which my noble
friend near me has alluded to as the signal of the success
which I should hope we may achieve in this undertaking.
The noble earl also referred to the mention of the treaty
with Austria in the Speech, and said that he was unwilling
to express satisfaction at a treaty of the contents of which
he was ignorant, and which might bind us to terms of a
highly objectionable nature, such as would not be sanc-
tioned by the people of this country ; and he talked of our
supporting Austria in Italy, Poland, and Hungary, and de-
nounced any such object as a part of that engagement.
The noble earl may make himself perfectly easy upon that
score, as no engagement of such a description either exists
or ever entered into our minds. It is unnecessary, how-
ever, to say this, as I presume that your lordships do not
think it possible that we should have made such an en-
gage ,
en-
gagement • but the noble earl who spoke early in the even-
ing (Derby) did not, I think, correctly understand the im-
port of the sentence is the Address. We do not propose
that the house should express any satisfaction at the
tr sty. We
thatpr propose
herpos m
e only
a Majesty
stthya
has
at
sh the
aa house
a treatyshould
fromlearn
hwithe which
she anticipates important advantages. That is all the satis-
faction. It is not that we are satisfied until we know
what it is, but that we learn with satisfaction that the
satisfaction
Queen has entered into a treaty from which she anticipates
advantage. Now, my lords, I think that you may safely
express as much satisfaction as that without committing
yourselves to a particle of satisfaction with the treaty
itself. (Hear, hear.)
The Earl of DERBY—The phrase, as interpreted, then,
is, that we are exceedingly glad that her Majesty and her
Majesty's advisers approve the treaty which they have
made. (A laugh.)
The address was then agreed to, and the house adjourned
at twelve o'clock.

room of Sir A. Brook, deceased ; and for East Gloucester-
shire, in the room of Sir M. Beach, deceased.
SESSIONAL ORDPRS.

The usual sessional orders were considered and agreed to.

THE PUBLIC EXCHEQUER.
On the motion of Mr. WILSON, a return was ordered
of the income and expenditure for the yek ending 10th of
October, 1851.