The Sun.
London, England, 1854-12-13 00:00:00

to attack the fortifications of the principal towns, it was
obvious th at a much smaller number of ships would have
been sufficient for maintaining an effective blockade,
while a lei ge portion of the force sent to the Baltic might
have been used to better purpose in the Black Sea. Not
being pre.; etred ;with a large force of gun-boats was also
another gi emt oversight which could easily have been fore-
seen. As goon as there was real cause to apprehend hoe-.
tilities with Russia, a large number of those gun boats
should have, been put in hand. If we had had this flotilla
of small gu7 s-boats ready, it could have prevented the Rus-
sians from obtaining supplies by the Sea of Azof, the
shallow W 3: iers of which prevented our larger ships from
establishing there an efficient blockade. fie could not
understand why, when the expedition was sent to the
Crimea meat weree should not have been taken to prevent
Odessa being: able to assist the forces of Russia. The noble
duke had se,' el that it was proposed to reward the troops
in the Cri men by giving commissions in each regi-
ment to deem-sing non-commissioned officers. He was
happy to he: .• that the Government intended to reward the
troops in Craig manner, but trusted they would not in
this repeat 'lhe old precedent of giving ensigns' commis-
sions to serg 5-. ants. The plan was one which would not be
found to ans v ter. The effect of such a system was to put a
man well ad leanced in life, who knew a great deal about
the army, as It I was used to a great deal of responsibility, in
the companj r of a number of young ensigns—boys of 18 or
19, without any responsibility, and who were, in fact, only
beginning to, learn their profession.. He trusted, therefore,
that in givii ;to sergeants these well-merited rewards for
their gallant; conduct in the field, they would se far depart
from their former precedent as to give commissions as
captains at least. They would then give a position of re-
spectability,, and with it the means of supporting that po-
sitioa. He :had known many instances of sergeants hav-
ing been pr ex noted for good conduct to ensigncies who had
boon ruined. by such promotion. (Cheers.)
The Duke of ARGYLL said ho did not think her Ma-
jesty's Govern invent had any reason to complain of the mode
in which the discussion upon the address had been carried
on, and in th s criticisms passed upon the conduct of the
Government; noble lords had shown nothing whatever of a
factious spi; it. Some of the noble lords who had addressed
the holise h ad, however, in his opinion, while criticising
the minor d entails, entirely lost eight of the greater and
more impor tent features of the case, as it presented itself
to the notic e both of the Government and of the country.
The remark r as to the unnecessary force in the Baltic were
also quite u iefouaded ; for when Sir Charles Napier first
sailed for th et Baltic he had with him bat 17 line-of-battle
ships, while it was known that the Russians had not less
than 27 in t heir harbours. Every exertion had been made
to get that :Sleet ready for sea; and if the labour in the
dockyards tit been diverted to the building of gun-boats,
they would 7 sot have been able to get the larger ships ready
for sea. Tb e, noble earl, in his remarks on the forbearance
of our navy sat Odessa, was not more fortunate. He con-
tended that, if ever there was a war which was of European
interest, thi e was that war ; and not only was this our con-
viction, but it was their conviction ; and yet, in spite of
thir convic lion, we saw they were lagging behind us in the
honourable course of asserting the independence of Europe
and resistir ig the aggression of Russia. He confessed he
had derived . the impression, from a consideration of the
transaction of the last few months, that the fear of that
power was i n every Cabinet, and was pursuing all the
peoples of 13 trope, and that the time was come when a
united stan d should be made against this aggression, and
that it was t he duty and the privilege of the two Great
Western P e wers to take the lead in that great contest.
(Hear, hear .) He contended that it was the universal
feeling of tie s people throughout this country that this
was a war :a et only of justice, but of necessity. (Hear,
hear.)
The Earl of HARDWICKE said he thought the result
of the debate was, that they stood very much in the same
position as when it began, namely, that at the outset of
this great NS r the Government of this country were not
prepared in the first instance to carry it on with that
vigour whic;ll. the occasion demanded. The noble duke
(the Duke cif Newcastle) had made the important admis-
sion that the invasion of the Russian dominions was a por-
tion of the ,e: riginal plan of the Government in carrying
on the war. If that were so, he submitted the Govern-
ment were re of justified in saying they were prepared to
carry out ass undertaking of that description. The noble
duke (Argyl a) had stated that gun-boats alone would
have been of no use in the Baltic ; but he (the Earl of
Hardwicke). would remind the noble duke that between
Cronstadt 'd St. Petersburg there was a flat of water
ten or twain. a miles long, about nine miles in breadth,
and five feel: deep • and he thought that a squadron
of gun-beat-A would have operated with great effect on
Cronstadt, a, rid even on St. Petersburg. It would bo too
late next yea r for any operation of that sort. For him-
self, he ners :r expected that Sir Charles Napier would
attempt to sal with the strong fortresses of Cronstadt apd
St. Petersb, a rg ; but he knew well that if the admiral met
the Russian .. fleet in the open sea he would have a good ac-
count to gi of them. He wholly absolved Sir Charles
Napier fro n anything like misconduct or neglect. He
thought the It, he had very ably conducted back our fleet
without di, e 'Ater, and believed that if he had attempted
any attack la pon the stronghold disaster was likely to have
ensued. The only fault to be found with his gallant friend
was that theta had been a little too much jollification and
si ;nulling, wl; ich had led the public to expect more than
had been accomplished. What was to be the end of the
war ? The on ginal object was to drive the Russians out of
Turkey, and se keep them out ; but by the invasion of the
enemy's count.; er, and the attack upon Sebastopol, the cha-
racter of the e rar had been entirely changed. He wished
success rnight . attend our arms for the sake of the honour
of the country ; but his opinion was that if Sebastopol
were taken we should be further from peace than we were
now.

The Earl of .CARLISLE wished to make a few obser-
vations with 1.0 gard to the views taken in the country with
regard to the causes of the war. In the first place, he
agreed entire] y with everything that had been said respect-
ing the admiral 314 conduct, the brilliant valour, and the
steady devotedi less of the sister services, and of the army
more especially . as upon it had devolved the greater share
of the labour. 1 7o the army it had been reserved to exhibit
some of the it tost distinguished excellences which had
marked the vari one epochs of the world, and they had dis-
played the steal ly devotion of the heroes of antiquity, and
the solitary. vale 'Cr of ths days of chivalry, (Hear, hear.)
The war, howeo -er, having commenced, it was, ho felt, the
common risk cI all that it should be carried on with all
possible vigour, in order to insure, at the earliest period,
an honourable and durable peace. The spirit and energy
of the country' were fairly roused, and them was, he
thought, no da a ger whatever that any Ministry could fail
in vigour or ,r,;i mstancy in supporting to the utmost the
power of our gallant troops. He hoped the Government
would bear in 1 n ind that an honourable and durable peace
might be obtai i led frithout insisting upon extreme terms,
and that the fet ;lino- of the country would ultiraatoly be
in favour of th ie who obtained such a peace at the earliest
opportunity.
- - -

-
The Earl of /LBERDEEN.—My lords, I should be sorry
to detain your lordships at this late hour for any leigth
of time, but I feel bound to make a few observations in
reply to the coin plaint of the noble earl opposite. He said
that the war ws ‘s undertaken in the defence of the liberty
of the Turkish o inpire ; but, he added, you have changed
the whole char cter of the war, and this expedition to
Sebastopol has 3 'ail °Ted you from the possibility of obtain-
ing what you di, esire. New, I humbly beg to remind the
noble earl that i f there be one point more than another
more vital to th e safety and independence of the Turkish
empire, and more clearly injurious to the power of Russia,
it is the destri ction of the fort of Sebastopol. (Hear,
hear.) Havini; driven the Russians out of the Principali-
ties, the next direct object of the war, which everybody
must have had in view from its very commencement, and
which we coup I only have been restrained in by a doubt of
its practicability, was the attack and destruction of Sebas-
topol. (Hear, hear.) Notwithstanding the eager desire
and expectation with which this country viewed the
first landing In the [Crimea and its immediate can-
sequences—mistaken as they have been—a mistake in
which all Ens ope shared at the time—still I think
that there are zi )od grounds to hope that success will attend
our efforts—(be, ar, hear) ;—and I totally disagree from the
noble earl in thinking that the prospect of peace will be
diminished by that success. Quite the contrary; I feel
satisfied that nothing could contribute so much to the pro-
bability of obta, liming those terms of peace which my noble
friend near me ,has alluded to as the signal of the success
which I should hope we may achieve in this undertaking.
The noble earl also referred to the mention of the treaty
with Austria in the Speech, and said that he was unwilling
to express satisfaction at a treaty of the contents of which
he was ignorant, and which might bind us to terms of a
highly objectioleabie nature, such as would not be sanc-
tioned by the people of this country ; and he talked of our
supporting Austria in Italy, Poland, and Hungary, and de-
nounced any such object as a part of that engagement.
The noble earl may make himself perfectly easy upon that
score, as no engagement of such a description either exists
or ever entered into our minds. It is unnecessary, how-
ever, to say this, as I presume that your lordships do not
think it passible that we should have made such an en-
gagement ; but the noble earl who spoke early in the even-
ing (Derby) did not, I think, correctly understand the im-
port of the sentence in the Address. We do not propose
that the house should express any satisfaction at the
treaty. We propose only that the house should learn with
satisfaction that her Majesty has made a treaty from which
she anticipates important advantages. That is all the satis-
faction. It is not that we are satisfied until we know
what it is, but that we learn-with satisfaction that the
Queen has entered into a treaty from which she anticipates
advantage. Now, my lords, I think that you may safely
as
satisfactionth at w i without owuitt
with
thcommittinge treaty
yourselves
mucheatroba
es
aaparticle
i o
onf
The Earl of DERBY—The phrase, as interpreted, then,
is, that we are exceedingly glad that her Majesty and her
Majesty's advisers approve the treaty which they have
made. (A laugh.)
The address was then agreed to, and the house adjourned
at twelve o'clock.