The Sun.
London, England, 1865-03-22 00:00:00

me SUN, LONDON) WEDNESDAY EVENING, MARCH 22, 1865.

fellow countrymen, in deprecating such meddling with a
grave matter—in deprecating any interference with an oath
intended to prevent the disturbance of the Constitution.
England respected and admired the Emperor of the French
for the manner in which he had conducted the government
of a noble but exciteable people. Well, it behoved them
not to cast a slur upon the Emperor by discountenancing
a policy which he felt compelled to adopt in order to secure
order in his dominions. He felt, too, as a member of the
Church of England, he ought to do nothing that would
embarrass the Roman Catholics of France in the reasser-
tion of their old Gallican liberties.

Mr. WHALLEY desired to point out to the Government
that the proposal involved a constitutional change in the
organisation of that house. He would take leave to observe
that he for one would not discuss such a bill. He would
vote against it, and he would tell the Government that
they ought to take upon themselves the responsibility of
introducing a proposal of the kind.
Leave was then given to introduce the bill.
FIRE INSURANCE DUTY.

Mr. H. B. SHERIDAN rose to move that, in the opinion
of that house, it was expedient that the reduction of fire in-
surance duty made in the last session be extended, at the
earliest opportunity, to houses, household goods, and all
descriptions of insurable property. The hon. member said
there was nothing new in the terms of such a resolution,
for the merits of the question at issue had been already
settled by the decision of the house on a previous occasion.
The whole question had been already fully debated and
argued over and over again, and therefore it would be un-
necessary for him to detain them now with any length-
ened observations. The house had already arrived at the
conclusion that the duty upon fire insurance was exces-
sive in amount, and that it ought to be reduced at the
earliest opportunity. He had had a conversation with a
right hon. gentleman, to whom he mentioned the fact
that he intended to introduce a bill upon the subject.
" Ah," said the right hon. gentleman, " you will make a
mistake. There is nothing so binding on the Government
as a resolution of the house, and, if you can only get the
house to pass a resolution, it will be all-potent in effect."
He accordingly had done so. The resolution was passed,
and he waited to see its effect. Last year there was some
attempt on the part of the Government to give effect to it,
for they all remembered how the Government proposed a
reduction of the duty upon a special item of insurable
goods. Now he submitted that in proposing that reduction
the Government had not fully and properly construed the
wishes of the house ; and he therefore asked the house to
remedy what he might term the oversight of the Govern-
ment in that last session by reminding them that they had
not correctly interpreted the wishes of the house. If the
Chancellor of the Exchequer were to reduce the duty to a
uniform rate of one shilling per cent. he would not only
earn the lasting gratitude of the country, but he would at
the same time be pursuing a course which would enable
• him to eventually replace in the exchequer the amount
which he would temporarily lose. If the right hon. gentle-
man was not in a position to act upon the resolution this
year, it might nevertheless remain as a sort of standing
instruction to the Government that the duty on fire insur-
ances was the first duty which ought to be considered. He
had always looked upon resolutions of that house as bind-
ing on the Government; if they were not, of what use could
they possibly be ? To show what was the feeling of the
country on this question of the fire insurance duty, ho
need only call attention to the numerous petitions which
had been presented on the subject from all parts of the
kingdom.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then rose
amid loud cries of "Divide," and said he should move the
previous question, so the honourable member would per-
ceive he had no intention of entering on a debate with him
on the question at issue. His remarks would be simply
directed to the time at which the hon. member had pro-
posed this resolution. The hon. member had said that
some right hon. gentleman, whom he did not name, had
found fault with his infantine simplicity for submitting
to the house a bill for reducing the duty, and informed
him that a resolution would be all-potent and effective.
Now in his (the Chancellor of the Exchequer's) opinion,
the binding force of resolutions on the Government mate-
rially varied according to their subject-matter. No doubt
resolutions of that house deserved the respect and attention
of the Government, although they might not be precisely
in accordance with the views which the Government enter-
tained, and such resolutions formed a material element in
the consideration of financial proposals. (Hear, hear.) But
he was bound to say that the sanguine mind of the hon.
gentleman considerably overstated the all-potency and
effectiveness of these resolutions, and he must certainly
have forgotten the most famous among them all—that for
the repeal of the paper duty. He (the Chancellor of the
Exchequer) was not aware of any single instance in which
any public good or advantage had resulted from such reso-
lutions. Resolutions like the present, which picked out a
single subject of taxation when other subjects of taxation
were not before the house, were entirely contrary to the
principle of our arrangements, which required that the en-
tire financial condition of the country should be placed as a
whole before the country, and that the country should dis-
charge its duty and make the selection it thought fit be-
tween the respective burdens which had claims for relief.
(Hear, hear.) Then, again, this resolution was not less hos-
tile to the principle which assigned the initiative in these
matters to the Government. If the resolution were passed
at this inopportune time, it would place the Government
in such a position that they would seem to exhibit disre-
spect towards that house. He agreed with the two proposi-
tions of the hon. member—first, that the feeling of the house
and the country had been against the duty, and secondly,
that the last reduction was made not altogether in compli-
ance with the expressed wishes of the house. Now, the hon.
gentleman said that the former decisions of the house
amounted to a verdict. If so, why did ho want another ver-
dict ? He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) objected to the
particular form of the hon. gentleman's verdict. This was
a motion not merely indicating the reduction of the fire
insurance duty, but indicating the peculiar manner and
degree in which it was to be reduced. In his resolution
he proposed a reduction of the duty to is. Gd. ; but in his
speech he proposed a reduction to ls. (Hear, hear, and
laughter.) The two statements were in conflict with each
other, and they clearly showed the inconvenience of such
matters being discussed before the expiration of the finan-
cial year. The petitioners, he might remark, had never in-
dicated any opinion as to the amount of duty which it might
be desirable to levy. Now, why should not the house
reserve to itself a discretion to deal with the subject at large
when the proper time arrived ? (Hear, hear.) He wished
to pay proper respect to the feelings of the house, but he
must say that the Government could not, without an abso-
lute abandonment of duty, accede to this resolution. (Hear.)
Mr. CRAWFORD, who was met with loud cries of
"Divide," said that, though ho had voted with his hon.
friend on previous occasions, he must decline to do so now,
because he considered his proposition inopportune.
Mr. HUBBARD, who was received with loud cries of
"Divide,"this country
said
tr that
wasthe
gqouveemstioend aetotisirsueley
by was
sthsiemly
whe-
ther Admini-
stration for the time being, or in any degree by the House of
coy
Commons; because, if the House of Commons had any
voice in the government of the country, it was right that
they should express their opinion upon the expediency of
retaining this tax at some time or other. If, however, the
question was brought on before the budget, they were told
that it was too soon. If it was brought on after the budget
they were told it was too late. (Hear, hear.) He trusted
that the house would seize the present opportunity of ex-
pressing its opinion by carrying the motion of the hon.
member for Dudley. (Divide, divide.)
Mr. JACKSON trusted that the hon. member for Dudley
(Mr. Sheridan) would not divide the house on this ques-
tion. The Chancellor of the Exchequer had admitted the
principle of a reduction of the duty on fire insurance, and
he thought they might safely leave the question in his hands.
Mr. MALINS said the idea of leaving this question in
the hands of the Chancellor of the Exchequer was a mere
delusion. It was not a favourite measure of his, and
when he came to deal with it he threw overboard all his
most cherished principles. No one could say a word in
favour of a tax upon prudence, and ho trusted that the
House of Commons would again record its opinion expli-
citly against it. (Divide, divide.) If they passed this reso-
lution by a large majority, it would be impossible for the
right hon. gentleman to resist that resolution when he made
his financial statement in the course of next month.

Sir R. CLIFTON trusted that the member for Dudley
would press his motion to a division. (Divide, divide.) He
believed that the reduction of the duty would lead to a great
increase in the number of fire insurances. (Divide, divide.)
After a few words from Mr. SHERIDAN,
The house divided on the previous question, when there
were—

For putting the question 137
Against it
Majority -72
The result was received with loud cheers.
The question was then put, and the resolution of the hon.
member for Dudley was agreed to without further opposi-
tion.

CHEMISTS AND DRUGGISTS.
Sir J. SHELLEY then moved for leave to bring in a bill
for regulating the qualifications of chemists and druggists
in England and Wales. One main object of the bill was to
obtain proper securities for the sale of poisons.
Sir F. KELLY assented to the, introduction of the bill.
The bill was then brought in and read a first time.
SOLDIERS' LIBRARIES.
Mr. WHALLEY moved an address for a catalogue of the
books that are at present placed in the libraries and read-
ing-rooms to each troop, battery, or company in the British
establishment, and for which an annual sum is sought by
rote 15 of Army Estimates, page 60. The hon. member,
as a reason for his motion, referred to several books com-
mon in regimental libraries, which in his opinion were ob-
jectionable on the score of the religious views which they
contained.

The Marquis of HARTINGTON said that the regi-
mental libraries were under the management of a com-
mittee, composed of officers and non-commissioned
officers; that no books were allowed to be added except
with the permission of the commanding officer, who was
obliged to report quarterly what books have been added to
the regimental library. Those reports were' submitted to
the Council of Military Education. Those precautions
were sufficient to ensure that no improper bookg were added,

and as the return would be most difficult to obtain, and
very voluminous, he was unable to comply with the wish
of the hon. member.

The motion was negatived without a division.
TESTS ABOLITION (OXFORD).

Mr. GOSCHEN then, in committee of the whole house,
moved that the chairman bo directed to move the house
that leave be given to bring in a bill to provide for the abo-
lition of certain tests in connection with academical degrees
in the University of Oxford. The bill, he said, was identi -
cal with that introduced by the hon. member for East
Sussex (Mr. Dodson) last year ;lit was not therefore neces-
sary for him to make any statement.
After a few words from Mr. WALPOLE and Mr. Donsox,
The motion was agreed to, and the bill was subsequently
read a first time.

SUPPLY.
The report of supply was brought up and agreed to.

LAHORE BISHOPRIC BILL:
The report on this bill was brought up and agreed to.

BRITISH KAITRARIA BILL. -
Tho Lords' amendments to this bill were considered and
agreed to.
The house adjourned at five minutes to nine o'clock.

PARLIAMENTARY DIVISION.

HOUSE OF COMMONS-MARCH 21.
FIRE INSURANCE.

Motion made and question proposed, " That, in the
opinion of this house, it is expedient that the reduction of
fire insurance duty, made in the last session, be extended,
at the earliest opportunity, to houses, household goods,
and all descriptions of insurable property." Whereupon
previous question put, " That this question be now put."
The house divided—Ayes, 137 ; Noes, 65.

AYES —137.
Adam,W. P. Gray, Lieut.-Col. Paget, C.
Annesley, CoL H. Griffith, C. D. Pakington, Sir J.
Astell, J. H. Grogan, Sir E. Palk, Sir L.
Bagwell, J. Hadfield, G. Papillon, P. 0.
Barnes, E. Hassard, 31. Parker, Major W.
Barnes, T. Henderson, J. Pilkington, J.
Bazley, T. Henley, Lord Ponsonby, A.
Beresford, D. Hennessy, J. P. Powys - Lybbe, P. L.
Blake, J. Hibbert, J. T. Redmond, J. E.
Bowyer, Sir G. Hodgkinson, G. Repton, G. W. J.
Bramley-Moore, J. Horsiall, T. B. Rogers, J. J.
Bridges, Sir B. W. Hubbard, J. G. Rose, W. A.
Brooks, R. Jolliffe, H. Russell, F. W.
Browne, Lord J. T. Kelly, Sir F. Salomong,Aiderman
Butler, C. S. Kendall, N. Schneider, H. W.
Cave, S. • Knox, Major WS. Selwyn, C. J.
Chapman, J. Lacon, Sir E. Seymour, A,
Cheetham, J. Langton, W. G. Shelley, Sir J. V.
Clay, J. Lanigan, J. Sidney, T.
Cobbold, J. C. Leatham, E. A. Smith. Sir F.
Cogan. W. H. Lee, W. Somes, J.
Collins, T. Legh, W. J. Stanley, Lord
Cox, W. Lewis, H. Stuart, Lt.-Cot W.
Craufurd, E. H. J. Locke, J. Taylor, Col.
Crossley, Sir F. Lopes, Sir 31. Taylor, P. A.
Dalglish, R. Lyall, G. Tollemache, F. J.
Dickson, Col. 31`Cann, J. Tollemache, J.
Duke, Sir J. MacEvoy, E. Turner, J. A.
Dunne, Col. Mackie, J. Turner, C.
Edwards, Cot 31`Mahon, P. Vance, J.
Ewart, W. Maguire, J. F. Vandeleur, Cot
Ewart, J. C. Matins, R. Vansittart, W.
Fane, Col. Martin, P. W. Verney, Sir H.
Farquhar, Sir 31. Miller, T. J. • Walcott, Admiral
Fellowes, E. Mills, J. R. Waldron, L.
Fenwick, E. M. Mitchell, T. A. Waterhouse, S.
Ferrand, W. Montazu, Lord R. Watkin, E. W.
Fitzgerald, W. S. Moor, k Westhead, J. P. B.
Forster, C. Moore, C. Whalley, G. IL
Gard, R. S. Morris,W. White, J.
Gaskell, J. M. Morrison, W. Wyld, J.
Gavin, Major Mowbray, J. R. Wynn, C. W. W.
George, J. Murray, W. Yorke, J. R.
Gower, G. W. L. O'Conor Don, The
Greenall. G. O'Donoghue, The TELLERS,
Greene, J. O'Ferrall, 31. Sheridan, H. B.
Greville, Cot F. O'Loghlen, Sir C. Clifton, Sir R.

NOES-65.
Ayrton, A. S. Goschen, G. J. Potter, E.
Baring, Sir F. Grey, Sir G. Pritchard, J.
Baring, T. G. Harkey, T. Pugh, D.
Bellew, R. M. Hartington,Marquis Robartes, T. J. A.
Bonham-Carter, J. Headlam, T. E. Robertson. H.
Bruce, Lord C. Ingham, R. Scourflelo, J. H.
Bruce, H. A. Jackson, W. Smith, M. T.
Bruen, H. Jervoise, Sir J. Stangeld, J.
Bury, Viscount Kingscote, Col. Steel, J.
Caird, J. Kinnaird, A. F. Tracy, C. It. D.
Cardwell, E. Layard, A. H. Vernon, H. F.
Childers, H. C. E. Marjoribanks, D. C. Villiers, C. P. -
Cowper, W. F. Martin, J. Waloegrave-Leslie
Crawford, R. W. Moffatt, G. Walpole, S. H.
Dunbar, Sir W. Moncreiff, J. Whitbread, S.
Dunlop, A. M. North, P. White, L.
Enfield, Viscount Paget, Lord C. Winnington, Sir T.
Fortescue, C. S, Palmer, Sir R. Wood, Sir C.
Gallwey, Sir W. P. Palmerston, Visct. Wyvill, M.
Gibson, T. M. Peel, Sir It.
Gilpin, C. Peel, F. TELLERS.
Gladstone, W. E. Peto, Sir M. Brand, H.
Glyn, G. G. Pollard Urquhart W Knatchbull-Hugess

addition to any funds they might contribute to the
men out in their own districts severally.

To an emigration scheme the views of the districts
were represented as favourable. The delegates were
in favour of emigration to the British colonies, to
Australia and New Zealand in particular, and not
to the United States. It was designed that young
men, puddlers, should be sent out, who desired
to leave the business of ironmaking altogether.
The districts were to vote ss. per member from their
local funds towards establishing an emigration fund;
and the subject was to be brought before the dis-
tricts at meetings to be held on the following day.
From the metropolitan societies, and also from
provincial associations, the council continues to re-
ceive promises of substantial help. The men in
workshops in different parts of the country have
begun to send contributions, which they promise
shall be continued weekly as long as the lock-out
lasts. The societies in the Birmingham district have
called a meeting for Friday next, to which they
invite delegates from the executive to state the case
of the ironworkers.
The authorities of the " National Association for
the Prevention and Settlethent of Strikes rnd Lock-
outs " have forwarded communications to South
Staffordshire offering their services towards bring-
ing about a restoration of peace—a state of things
which they express themselves confident of secur-
ing ; bui we have not yet heard that the offer has
any chance of being accepted.
To-day nearly 100 able-bodied men who had been
thrown out of work by the lock-out applied for
relief at the special meeting of the Board of
Guardians of the Wolverhampton Union. Most of
them were Irishmen, and those whose e4ses were
urgent were turned into the stone-yard at once,
where on Saturday there were 35 men, but on Mon-
day only 27. All the 35 were married, and between
them had 135 children.

To-day also there was a meeting of puddlers in
Wolverhampton, at which between 250 and 300 men
of that class were present. Mr. Councillor Sidney
presided, and " deeply sympathised " with the men
in their trouble. The speakers all condemned the
conduct of the masters, who, they maintained, were
attempting to crush the Union, and to bring about
a state of things similar to that which had been
effected in Leeds. For this purpose the Ironmasters'
Association had been remodelled. Ultimately it
was resolved

" That this meeting pledges itself to be true, and
to refuse any offer on the part of the masters to
begin to work on any other terms than those which
the men left off at. At the same time they are
willing to commence work at once, and desire that a
security be given for the future, either by arbitration
or by some other honourable means."

By this it is meant that they require standing wages
not less in amount than 9s. 6d. a ton, and that they
must have a guarantee from the masters that there
shall never again be a lock-out.

MARCH 21, Evening.

Two firms have discontinued the lock-out, and
resumed work to-night. These are Messrs. E.
Cresswell and Sons, of Tipton, and Mr. Thomas
Wells, of Mosley.

NEWCASTLE-ON-TYNE, Tuesday Afternoon.

The Mayor of the borough, Lieut.-Col. Perkins,
and L. L. Bell, both largely connected with the
iron trade as manufacturers, but not involved in the
lock-out, have appeared as mediators this morning.
Mr. Bell, addressing the employers and workmen
connected with the present strike and lock-out in
the iron trade, says
I have read with some care the observations of
both sides in the conferences which have taken place
between the ironmasters and delegates, and if, on
the whole, I have been impressed with the forbear-
ance of the former, I have not been the less so by the
temperate and sensible remarks which fell from some
of the latter. Encouraged by this, my motive in
now addressing you is to suggest whether the time
has not arrived when the mediation of some one or
more persons possessing the necessary acknowledged
intelligence, honesty, and independence, might not
advantageously to both sides be called in. It may
be urged that you are perfectly competent to bring
your dispute to a practical issue without any such
intervention, and that ultimately those natural
laws which regulate commercial questions will
adjust this one for you. I venture to take the
liberty of submitting this question for your earnest
consideration, because I am in no way personally
or otherwise connected with your dispute.
Without being longer a bar iron maker, I have
the advantage of former experience to guide me in
any opinions I may have on the subject, while my
position now as a mine owner and smelter binds
me with you in the closest bonds of interest
and sympathy. I look with apprehension to the re-
sult of continued inactivity in your mills and forges,
on our collieries, iron mines, and blast furnaces ; and
I am not without fear that you may afford other
countries an opportunity of acquiring a footing in
our own and other markets, to regain which a second
struggle to meet increased competition may add to
the perplexities which at present beset the iron
trade."

The Mayor of Newcastle (Mr. Perkins) says :
" Much as I have regretted many steps which
have been taken by the workmen's union, I have
always been adverse to the lock-out. The works in
which I am a partner are still in operation, although
the men are under notice ; and it is my intention,
now that my health is somewhat restored, to use my
best endeavours to effect a reconciliation between
the parties at issue."
It is the general impression in commercial circles,
in this town at least, that at this conjuncture, if some
person of local influence, such as Mr. Joseph Pease,
of Darlington, or his brother, Mr. Henry Pease,
M.P., who, though not even manufacturers, have
as large an interest in the prosperity of the north,
and who have the confidence of both masters and
men, were to offer to mediate, good results might
follow.

The Gateshead executive of the Ironworkers' As-
sociation, now that the lock-out is established, and
there is no likelihood of a speedy settlement, have
recommended to their several lodges not to make any
further concessions to the masters, but to abide the
result. In the meantime a scheme of extensive emi-
gration has been put forth, and the executive have
sent the following circular to their lodges:—
"Information having this day come to hand that
provision has been made in New York to pay the
passage of ironworkers desiring to emigrate, and that
in the course of a few days an agent will be in Gates-
head, who will be prepared to make arrangements
for the sending out of some hundreds of ironworkers,
it is earnestly requested that each society, whose
members are looked out, send to the Executive
Council Rooms the names of parties wishing to emi-
grate ; and also whether they are married or single,
and what number of children, so that the necessary
arrangements may be made for the removing of them
and their families ; and also their occupation, so
that situations may be in readiness on their arrival
at New York."

Meetings of the workmen's lodges were held in
the principal districts of the iron trade yesterday,
but they were private. Mr. Bladen, the manager
of the Jarrow Ironworks, proposed yesterday to the
millmen and finishers that they should go and work
a large quantity of iron which is lying in stock in
the Jarrow yard, but after a meeting between the
millmen and puddlers they resolved that the mill-
men do not resume work until the puddlers go on.
About 130 men and boys were locked out at Messrs.
Tysack, Bell, and Co.'s works at Sunderland on
Saturday. Yesterday morning the Middlesborough
town crier gave notice of a meeting of the iron-
workers to be held in the Odd Fellows Hall at 1
p.m. About 800 workmen were present.
Prior to the meeting Mr. Rowlands, the delegate
who represented the Tee-side workmen at the New-
castle and York meetings, was sent for by Mr. Hop-
kins to the office of the works, and an interview took
place between them with regard to the questions at
issue. It is reported that at that interview Mr.
Hopkins made suggestions or remarks of which the
following may be accepted as the gist :-1. If Mr.
Kane would attend at the trade council, to be held
in London to-morrow (Wednesday), and denounced
the conduct of the North Staffordshire ironworkers,
there might then be discovered means of putting an
end to the lockout. 2. There should, forthwith, be
a severance of the North of England, from the Staf- ,

fordshire Union. At the meeting a document was
approved of, stating that the members of the vari-
ous lodges are determined that the Executive Coun-
cil acknowledged by Gateshead shall entirely sever
their connection with the Brierley-hill committee
from the 17th instant, until the members who are
under the influence of Brierley-hill see it to be their
duty to demand one executive, when they will be
prepared to act in concert with them. Votes of
thanks to and confidence in the delegates were en-
thusiastically accorded. An application was made
by about 200 of the members of the union for assist-
ance from the funds to enable them to emigrate to
America. It was decided that a committee meeting
be held that evening to consider the application.