The Sun.
London, England, 1862-03-26 00:00:00

TRE REVISED CODE,

i'-',Witiona against the Revi.;c! Ce,lo wero prc:-.;crited LY
Lord Cranworth, tho Earl of Derby, Lord Kingsdown, the
Bishop of Worcester, Viscount Dungannon, the Marquis of
Bath, the Earl of Devon, Lord Redesdale, Lord Calthorpe,
and several other peers.

to his rule. After that change was made various events
and circumstances took place, and the Russian Ambassadors
at this and the other Courts of Europe were instructed to
state to the different Governments what were the intentions
of the Emperor. The noble earl has stated most truly that
these intentions comprised a Council of State which should
be provided with members not belonging to the official Wer-
ra:o,n mo^,^ing IT that; some independent, members whose
advice should be asked by the Government. Another
article was to secure municipal councils, which were to be
elective. A third provision was for a council upon cede-
siastical matters, and with that council was connected the
subject of education. I must say that I think those pro-
positions wise, and not only wise but likely to lead the way
to the enjoyment of greater privileges by the Poles when
they should have had the benefit of national administration,
and when, by education, they should have been raised in
the scale of nations. (Hear, hear.) The circular despatch
was read by the Ambassador of the Emperor of Russia,but
no copy of it was left. However, it soon afterwards became
public, and I will read a passage to show the spirit in which
these propositions were meant—a spirit highly honourable
to the Emperor, and demonstrating the benevolent views
with which he acted :

EMPLOYMENT OF WOMEN AND CHILDREN

BILL.
This bill was read a first time.
SIR JOHN SOANE'S MUSEUM BILL.

The Duke of BUCKINGHAM moved the second read-
ing of this bill, which was to enable the trustees of the
museum to lend some of its treasures to the Commissioners
of the Exhibition of 1862.

Lord OVERSTONE said he thought this bill required
serious attention. In the approaching summer, when a '
great number of foreigners were expected to visit this
country, he thought that it was highly objectionable that
the interesting museums and galleries of the metropolis
should be denuded of their great attractions. He thought
that instead of such being done, it would be of the
highest importance that the various attractions should be
arranged in the highest order, and therefore he was of
opinion that some further explanation was necessary before
the present bill was agreed to. The same demand as
that which they were now considering had been
made to the trustees of the National Gallery, but after full
consideration the authorities thought it would be incon-
sistent to comply with the request. He did object to the
second reading of the bill, but he thought the subject should
not be hastily disposed of.
Earl GRANVILLE agreed that it would not be desir-
able to denude our public galleries, but ho did not think
that because the National Gallery had refused to lend some
of its pictures, the trustees of Sir John Soane's museum
should be precluded from lending some of its treasures to
the coming exhibition, as last year not more than 2,000
persons visited the establishment.

The bill *as then read a second time.
POLAND.

The Earl of CARNARVON rose to call the attention of
their lordships to the present state of Poland, and also for
the purpose of inquiring of her Majesty's Government
whether Prince Gortschakoff's circular letter of the 20th of
March had been communicated to them. The noble lord com-
menced his observations by alluding to the difficulties of the
subject which' he was about to bring under the atten-
tion cf the house, and he thought that cold indeed was the
heart of that person who did not feel a sympathy for Po-
land, whose sons had borne up under every difficulty, as
nothing had ever shaken their courage or devotion to their
country. It was said in one of the petitions presented that
evening that England had looked with indifference on the
partitions of Poland. That was false as a matter of history.
England never did look upon those partitions with indiffer-
ence, but had frequently protested against them, and had
protested against the revocation of the constitution. We
had never acquiesced by deed or word in the revocation of
the constitution. The first, second, and third partitions of
Poland were effected on the pretext that Poland had be-
come a dangerous neighbour, Even now we heard it said
that Poland was dangerous to her neighbours, and that
was alleged in order to justify the revocation of her consti-
tution. The extraordinary fatality had happened to her that
whilst in her early days she was the source of trouble and
constant anxiety to her neighbours, so since she had been
destroyed and incorporated with other countries she had
become a still greater source of anxiety, not only to her
neighbours but to Europe. England was directly con-
cerned in the question of Poland. She was interested in
preserving the balance of power which at present existed
among the various states of Europe, and he ventured to say
that the incorporation of Poland with other countries was a
source of as great mischief to Europe generally as to Russia.
It was a mischief to Europe in this way—that country which
was designed as a restraint against the aggression of Russia
on Europe was no more. Russia by seizing Poland had
crossed the German frontier, and held an attitude some-
times threatening to Austria. It was a painful task to dwell
upon these matters, but he trusted their lordships would
think he had said nothing which would give offence to
Russia. As far as he had studied the question he did not
believe that the Polish nation was at the present time ripe
for entire independence, but he thought that they had so
far disciplined themselves through great calamities and
great trials as to entitle them to some extension of
constitutional liberty. He would be an imprudent man
who predicted the restoration of the Polish kingdom as an
impossibility, but looking at recent events in Europe
there was no well-grounded reason for believing that such a
contingency would arise at present. At the same time
these who, with the best intentions, but the worst judg-
ment, had held different language, and encouraged the
Polish people in illusory dreams, had done poor service to
the cause they desired to advocate. Equally for Poland and
Russia he regretted the continuance of the present deplor-
able state of things. (Hear.) He regretted the language in
which Russia and her policy had been stigmatised, as she
did not deserve it. It was no light thing for the Emperor
of that kingdom to have undertaken the task of emanci-
pating the serfs, nor was it any light thing that the nobles
and the great proprietary classes had co-operated in carry-
ing out that measure. For many years past it had been the
practice for the nobles of Russia to meet occasionally in
assembly for conference, and the Emperor had now gone so
far as to consult these assemblies, and place before them
matters of the highest national importance for the purpose ,
of obtaining their advice. Looking at all these things it
was evident that a more liberal view prevailed in Russia
than in former years, and he could not believe that this libe-
rality on the part of the Government would be confined to
Russia, but that it would be extended to Poland. He had a
right to assume that this policy would be lasting ; for, look-
ing back, they saw that three successive rulers, the Emperor
Alexander, the Emperor Nicholas, and the present Em-
peror, had promised to give a constitution to Poland. Those
three emperors had, in succession, acknowledged their duty
to that people, and pledged their honour, and taken the oath
of fidelity, not only as Emperors of Russia, but as Kings of
Poland. There were, no doubt, classes in Russia unfavourable
to Polish liberty ; but it would be an injustice to the present
ruler of that country to say that he was indifferent to the
voice of truth, or that the benevolence which he had
shown in the emancipation of the serfs would not be ex-
tended to his subjects in Poland, a course dictated not only
by generosity, but by every principle of sound policy.

" The solemn act of emancipation inaugurated by the
manifesto of the 19th of February attests the profound soli-
citude which our august master devotes to the wellbeing of
the peoples whom Providence has confided to him. Russia
and Europe have seen in it a proof that, far from evading
or postponing reforms demanded by the progress of ideas
initiative
and of interests, his Imperial Majesty takes the
and pursues it with perseverance. Our august
.master ex-
tends the same solicitude to his subjects of the kingdom of
Poland, and has not wished that a painful impression
should arrest the course of his generous mtentions. '
That was a voluntary declaration on the part of the Empe-
ror of Russia. It showed, in the first place, that he did
conceive himself bound by the general provisions of the
Treaty of Vienna to Europe to give a liberal and generous
Government to Poland, and in the next place it showed that
Poland was a country to which especial care would be
given. Unhappily Poland, when she has excited our sym-
pathy, has generally excited our sorrow. There happened
those painful events to which the noble earl has referred, in
which the Poles by appearing in the streets in great crowds
wished to manifest their attachment to their nationality,
but at the same time excited apprehensions, not unreason-
able, that tranquillity might be disturbed. I took occasion
in the other house to state that while I thought those appre-
hensions not unnatural, it was the duty of the Goveanment
to give notice that no crowds would be permitted—that to
attack an unarmed multitude by means of soldiery, with-
out notice, was an act of rigour and cruelty, and from that
opinion I cannot depart. (Cheers.) The Prince who then
commanded at Warsaw did me the honour to write a letter
to a person in this country, who communicated the letter
to me, endeavouring to show that due notice had been
given to the people by proclamations. I am convinced
that Prince Gortschakoff felt great interest, I believe
almost affection, towards the people over whom he was
placed, and that he did not intend to aet with harshness
and cruelty. At the same time I cannot depart from
my opinion that the acts then committed produced
irritation which was but natural and justifiable under the
circumstances. (Hear, hear.) Matters proceeded. The
people paraded the streets. National hymns were sung in
the churches. Upon that subject the Russian Government
was extremely susceptible. I had some of these hymns sent
over and translated. One at least, if not more, was sanc-
tioned by the Emperor Alexander, but the hymns were cer-
tainly addressed to the national spirit, excited the Poles to
maintain their national character, and evidently had refer-
ence to some period when they should maintain their cha-
racter as an independent nation. I cannot wonder that the
Russian Government should wish to prevent such hymns
being sung. But the way in which the people were shut
up in the churches, and then let out, as described by the
noble earl, appears to me to have been utterly unjustifiable.
I have no doubt that a deep feeling of anger and resentment
was the consequence, and that it produced national irrita-
tion, dejection, and alarm. At the same time, we must not
only regard the circumstances which make us look on Poland
with compassion, but also the original intentions of the
Russian Government, and what may be expected from them.
IA ith regard to the state of siege, I do not think it possible
for any foreign Government or any individual to say what
measures a Government ought to take in order to preserve
its own internal tranquillity. (Hear, hear.) Whether those
measures be taken at Warsaw, whether they be taken in
Hungary, or whether they be taken in the United States
across the Atlantic, if the Government says such measures
are necessary to secure obedience to the law and to keep the
State and society together, I think credit should be given
to the Government as knowing best what is necessary for
its own internal tranquillity, and that, at all events, it is
not for other Governments to interfere. (Hear.) But,
with regard to a state of siege, it must always be deemed a
temporary measure, and I cannot but hope that before
long some relaxations will be made. I quite admit that
at the end of four months the mitigations are trifling ;
but it shows a feeling on the part of Russia that such a
mode of government cannot be kept up, and that they
are looking to a return to a better state of things. There
are other circumstances of a hopeful character. A Pole
(the Marquis Wielopolski) was summoned to St. Petersburg
to give advice to the Emperor, and, if general rumours are
correct, the advice which he gave was very wise, and well
befitting a man who takes a great interest in his own coun-
try, while thinking it hopeless to sever the connexion be-
tween it and Russia. He proposed that there should be a
civil government for Poland, entirely separated from the
military government; that the civil governor should be a
Pole ; ihat the offices of the administration should be filled
by Poles ; that the laws of Poland should have their free
course, under a Polish administration; that the people should
enjoy as many privileges as were consistent with their con-
dition ; and that the troops should never be employed ex-
cept in cases of public disturbances, or against external vio-
lence. That proposition was not adopted by the Russian
Government of the period; at the same time, it was not
wholly rejected or thrown aside. On the contrary, much
favour was shown to the distinguished man who gave that
advice, and it was courteously and graciously received by
the Emperor. I see no reason to doubt, or at all events to
despair, of advice of that kind being taken at some future
time, and that the Poles will have the benefit of a govern-
ment of their own nationality. Now, a country subjected
to foreign sway may be reconciled to it by a government of
that kind. There was a great instance of this in the go-
vernment of Italy under the first Napoleon. He had the
supremo military command over Italy ; but he did not place
there a French administration and a French government.
On the contrary, Italians of distinguished talent were placed
in the government of Italy. By that means the people of
Italy were reconciled to the foreign power of Napoleon. But
there are other circumstances that justify us in looking for
some mitigation of the grievances of the Poles. The Em-
peror of Russia has granted to all his subjects who were in
the state of serfdom an emancipation from that condition,
and we may look forward to the period when all these men
will be free. Now, no one can expect that the change will
stop there. When this class settles in the towns and cities of
Russia,
it is quite impossible that the monopoly of power
by the nobles can be maintained. Indeed, a
great
portion of
the nobles have declared their wish to share
with those who
were serfs, but who will be their fellow-subjects, all the ad-
' vantages andlall the privileges that can be attained under a
freer government. And when the Russian people have ob-
tained a government more in accordance with the views and
general system of Europe, must not that have a great influ-
ence on the condition of Poland ? If the noble lord, who
has paid so much attention to the subject, will refer back
to the year 1831, he will find the feeling prevalent among
the Russians was, not only that the Poles were in rebellion
and insurrection against the Government of Russia, but
that it was unjust and unfair that the Poles should, since
1816, have been in the enjoyment of greater privileges
than the Russians possessed themselves. There was a sort
of national envy in regard to the Poles and the privileges
they possessed. But if the Russians once come into the
enjoyment of greater privileges and freedom, so far from
having a feeling of hostility to the Poles, they will be glad
to see them also in the enjoyment of civil and religious
liberty. Not only my observation of the past, but my ex-
pectations of the future lead to this result. But I must end
as I began, by saying that while nothing could give me in-
dividually, or the Government collectively, greater satisfac-
tion than to see happiness and peace prevail in Poland, I
do not think any immediate interference, and still less con-
stant remonstrance with the Government of Russia, will
effect the object proposed. (Hear, hear.) lam very glad
that the noble lord, who has spoken with so much discre-
tion and so much ability, has called your lordships' atten-
tion to the subject; but I do not think anything immediate
can be done, though I do trust that, as in other parts of the
world oppression is gradually decreasing, so it is decreasing
in Poland.

Earl RUSSELL—I must do the noble earl the justice to
say that he has spoken on this painful subject not onlywith
great ability but with great prudence.
he
(Hear.) I rejoice to
observe the measured and temperate manner in which
has spoken of the government of Poland. But, however
the noble lord may be at liberty to speak, I feel that on
who holds the office of Secretary of State for Foreign eAf-
fairs is more restricted than anoae else in giving atiopinion
on such a subject. (Hear, hear.y) Any member of this or of
the other House of Parliament, any organ of public opinion
in the press, may avow sentiments with regard to the go-
vernment of Poland, may point out what may be deemed
oppressive in that system, and may protest against the mea-
sures of Russia more easily than one in my position. Your
lordships must remember that any official language which
is used cannot fail to be futile and undignified, unless, on
the one hand, it be such as is likely to be received as satis-
factory and agreeable by the Court of Russia, or unless, on
the other hand, it be maintained by material assistance to
the Poles. (Hear.) I have therefore been very cautions in
the official language which I have employed on this sub-
ject. As the noble earl justly says, Poland has from her
first partition always met with sympathy in this country,
yet at the same time no English Government or Prime Mi-
nister has at any time held out the prospect of material as-
sistance to the Poles. A ter the last partition, in 1791, Pitt
spoke of it in terms of abhorrence nearly as strong as those
which were used by Fox, but neither he nor any other Mini-
ster thought it was the duty of this country to interfere save
by an expression of opinion. It is therefore in the same
spirit that I shall make some observations which occur to
me on the speech of the noble earl. It has been justly said
by the noble earl that this is a matter which occupied a
Prominent place in the deliberations of the Congress of
Vienna—not sc much, indoed,during the regular conferences
a 4 in conversations and correspondence between the Minis-
tersof the different States. That was a period, we all know,
thosewnen the interests of peoples were not so much regarded as
of the great sovereigns of Austria, , Russia, and
pr_
.tt
whose armies had produced such an. effect in Eu-
rope by their
fought the predominant strength. Lord Castlereagh
battle in the interests of Poland with as much
energy as
ever efforts he eo.hi! but as the noble earl justly says, what-
-I,v.e expected
wend make and whatever success he might
aaeinterrupted by the return of Napoleon
from Elba. The rr
angements of 1815, therefore, were in
this respect very imperfect,
The noble earl justly says that
by the Treaty of viet
Poland was united to Russia by
constitution. But there ie u
ukgr.eat fallacy in that expression.
It was united by constitution; no part of those conces-
sions made by the Emperor no'ngress of Vienna, der to Poland were enu-
merated or sanctioned by Congress
and
11/ to to within the
terms they could not be held spee
terms of European obligations.
Theirhe Poles en
a vast insurrection occurred in Poland, and 1831 and 1832 e
d
deavoured to obtain their independence,
was overcome ; the I: ussian arms prevailed, and resistance
was
Em-
peror of Russia held that by that insurrection the claims
the roles to national representation, to a
national arm
of
and to those privileges which the Emperor Alexandet
promised were altogether forfeited. Ny noble fend (Lord
Palmer:lton) contended, and with, as I think, sound ara
superior .arguments, against that proposition. Those papers
were produced last year in Parliament, and Parliament has
had an opportunity of seeing with how much ability and with
how much perseverance my noble friend attempted to m-
-
press ur on the Russian Government the sanctity of the ob
ligations.; which Russia had undertaken. That controversy
was not pushed any further, and the constitution of the
Ernperor.Alexander was not given to the Poles. The con.-
, stitution i ntended by the Emperor Nicholas was, I believe,
never enjoyed by Poland. But at the commencement of the
reign of the present Emperor a change took place affecting
-"ussi
aa.- —one of the greatest changes perhaps which has oc-
curred i modern times , I mean the change made by the
.}.;
XPerot r with regard to serfdom in the dominions subject

The Earl of CARNARVON briefly replied, and
Their lordships adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS—YESTERDAY.
The SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock.
MEW MEMBERS.

Mr. MORRITT took the oaths and his seat on his elec-
tion for the North Riding, and Mr. J. R. Mills for Chip-
ping Wycombe.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.

The Berwick-upon-Tweed Harbour Bill and the Fros-
terly and Stanhope Railway Bill were read a third time
and passed.
The following bills were considered and ordered for third
reading :—Coventry Poor Act Amendment, Daventry
Railway, and Leeds, Bradford, and Halifax Junction Rail-
way.

' THE MIN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, MARCH 2el, 1882,

which could determine, or ought to determine, this ques-
tion. The question of expenditure was not one which should
govern the decision of the house ; but when they came to
the appropriation of the money so liberally voted by Par- •
liament, it was important to see that the money was so
spent as to produce the results which Parliament had in
view. This consideration forced itself upon the Govern- •
merit last summer. Government was in connexion with a
vast number of persons in various parts of the
country engaged in education—drawing their sala-
ries
from the Government, and to a great extent inde-
pendent of those managers with whom they arc more
immediately associated. Government had to consider
whether this gigantic system of centralisation might not
be checked, and whether to a greater extent local manage-
ment and control could not be given. The Government
also considered the report of the commissioners,
and what they said as to the present system being
complicated, cumbrous, and costly, and the Government
also came to the conclusion that the results were
by no means commensurate. Then they set themselves
to work to revise the code, and the result of their deli-
berations was laid befcre Parliament some time
previous to the prorogation, with the full expectation
that it would produce the criticism which it had produced
during the recess. The heads of the department to which
this matter was entrusted had received deputation after
deputation on the subject, and had read all the pamphlets
which had appeared. In fact, he had scarcely ever
known a subject which had been more thoroughly dis-
cussed, whether in or out of that house. The Government
thought that the principle which they ought to maintain
was, that the money voted by Parliament for the promotion
of education should be contingent upon the success of the
machinery employed, as tested by results. To this principle
he understood his right hon. friend to assent. The right
hon. gentleman (Mr. Walpole) in his speech pointed out
what he deemed the four advantages of the present system,
but ho failed to show that the Revised Code would not sus-
tain these advantages, nor did the right hon. gentleman in
any of his resolutions ask the house to say that the Revised
Code would affect the religious instruction given in the
schools under the present system ; and as to taunting the
religious bodies on the subject, he thought that it would be
reproaching them to suppOse that they would be less atten-
tive to religious education when they ceased to be paid for
it than they were when they were paid for it. In schools in
connection with the Church of England no difference would
be made under the Revised Code; and as to discouraging
voluntary efforts, he held that the effect of the Revised Code
would be exactly the reverse of what the right hon. gentle-
man anticipated; for the supporters of schools would be
more and not less anxious and interested. The very cer-
tainty of the grants heretofore had operated as a check
rather than an impulse to a voluntry effort. He attached
quite as much value to these voluntary efforts as his right
hon. friend could do. Those represented by his hon. friend
the member for Leeds were entitled to the thanks of the
country for the efforts they had made unaided by any Par-
liamentary grant. Amongst those not unwilling to receive
Government aid large voluntary contributions had been
made ; and many such schools would have been established
by benevolent people, even if there had been no Parlia-
mentary grants. He could not see how voluntary efforts
would be checked by efficiency being made a condition of
grants. (Hear, hear.) As to discipline and cleanliness,
schools where these qualities were not found would not be
entitled to a grant; and as to the test of how the children
turned out in life, it would be impossible to follow
them and to make the grant dependent on the issue of such
inquiries. He was not disposed to underrate what had been
done by the present system. He remembered and took part
in the efforts of the Marquis of Lansdowne and Lord Rus-
sell, to whom the right hon. gentlemen had referred. Ho
remembered the jealousy with which these grants were at
first regarded, and the danger the system then ran of almost
annihilation at the hands of the majority of that house. As
to the results, it was a fact which stood broadly out in the
report of the commissioners, that not more than one-third
of the scholars could be said to be efficiently educated ; but
he cared not to state the precise proportion; what he con-
tended for was, that notwithstanding the vast amount of
money spent, a very large proportion of the children were
imperfectly educated in those very elements of education
which all agreed should be insisted on. He thought he had
stated the figures incorrectly—the fact being, as he had just
been informed, that one-third were well taught and two-
thirds imperfectly taught. His right hon. friend stated as an
objection to the system that it did not reach the poor dis-
tricts. That objection had been often repeated, but the de-
fect complained of was inherent in the system which made
Parliamentary grants dependent on voluntary contributions.
The Revised Code was intended to meet that objection by
making efficiency the sine qua non of the money contributed.
Another objection of the right hon. gentleman was, that by
the Revised Code the junior classes would not be sufficiently
attended to. Now, if anything could induce the masters to
attend to the junior classes it would be the regulation which
made the master's remuneration depend on the testing of
each child—which would make his remuneration depend,
not on the general management of the school, but the actual
instruction given to each individual child. The Revised
Code was to remedy the very evils of which the right hon.
gentleman complained. As to the masters and pupil-
teachers it would be seen, when the house came to discuss
the resolutions, that the Government had kept faith both
with masters and pupil-teachers, and that full justice had
been done to both parties by the Revised Code. Under the
recent system neither 'party had any legal security for pay-
ment of what they were led to expect; under the Revised
Code masters and pupil-teachers had a legal guarantee for
six months' salary before they could be dismissed. He (Sir
G. Grey) would assure his right hon. friend that when the
house went into committee the Government would be pre-
pared to consider his resolution with impartiality. (Hear.)
He observed, and truly, that the subject of education should
not be made a party question. (Hear, hear.) He (Sir G.
Grey) believed it was the sincere and earnest desire of the
house to promote a sound education among the children of
the working classes of the country, and hoped the house
would go into committee with the desire of considering the
resolutions of the right hon. gentleman. With respect to
the point of economy, and also that of secresy, nothing
would be done without the consent of Parliament, and
therefore in those respects the Government would afford no
just ground of complaint. It was generally understood that
the house would now go into committee to discuss those
resolutions, and he hoped the time would not be wasted by
matters of detail, but that general principles would be kept
in view. (Hear.)
Mr. B. STANHOPE criticised at great length the vari-
ous provisions of the new code, and complained that the
Vice President of the Committee of Council had not dealt
with the subject in a fair spirit. He observed that the at-
tendance of children at school was a matter beyond the con-
trol of the managers, yet both the grants to them and to the
teachers were made dependent upon the examination and
attendance of the scholars—a result equally illogical, un-
reasonable, and unjust.
Mr. BUXTON, as one of the managers of a school,
owned that be had felt at one time under a cloud of uncer-
tainty ; but after considering the question fully, he had
come to the conclusion that the Revised Code, whilst it
would not damp religious teaching, would tend to stimulate
secular, at the same time that it would not discourage the
friends of education or induce them to remit in their efforts.
Lord It.. CECIL admitted that there were evils in the
existing system which required amendment, but he objected
to the Government scheme that it not only did not remedy
these evils, but left them where they were, or deepened
their intensity and increased their range, and had evils of
its own ten times more extensive and perilous. The system
now in operation did not reach poor districts, new schools,
and dull pupils; and in all these particulars the Revised
Code would be worse than its predecessor.
Mr. W. FORSTER said experience had convinced him
that a reform was absolutely necessary ; but the great and
swooping change contemplated by the Revised Code would
not be a reform so much as the utter destruction of the
present system. _ _

Mr. Puller opposed, and Mr. Leatham supported, the
Revised Code; after which, on the motion of Mr. White-
side, the debate was adjourned until Thursday (to-morrow).
WEST HARTLEPOOL RAILWAY AND DOCK