The Sun.
London, England, 1865-10-30 00:00:00

The President and South Carolina•

The following is a report of the interview of the dele-
gation from South Carolina with the President, in relation
to certain prominent unpardoned rebels :
" Judge Wardlaw, Alfred Huger, and Colonel Dawkins,
of South Carolina, this afternoon had an interview by ap-
pointment with President Johnson. They were accom-
panied by W. H.Trescott, who is here on business as exe-
cutive agent of that State. The President, after the cus-
tomary preliminaries of reception, invited them to be
seated, when at once the conversation commenced byJudge
Wardlaw informing him that they were a delegation from
the State Convention of South Carolina, sent hither to pre-
sent certain memorials of that body. These memorials
had been very carefully considered in the Convention, and
he believed they told exactly the truth. The President
inquired the object of the memorials. Judge Wardlaw
informed him that one of them was in behalf of Jefferson
Davis, Alexander H. Stephens, George A. Trenholm, and
Governor Magrath. He said they had understood that by
the late interference of the President Messrs. Stephens and
Trenholm had already been released from close confine-
ment, and permitted to return to their homes. He would
ask for Governor Magrath either a pardon, or that he
might be released on his parole. They could assure the
President no harm could result from such an act of cle-
mency.
"The President replied that all could not be pardoned
at once. The business must be proceeded with gradually,
and an effort made to execute the law. A discrimination

was necessary as we went along. It was a too common
expression, by way of argument in regard to clemency,
that such a one had been pardoned, and that he was just
as bad as another who bad not been pardoned.
"Judge Wardlaw replied that the delegation presented
no such argument as that.

" The President said sometimes the peculiar locality had
much to do with pardons. Like many other things in hu-
man affairs, we cannot have a fixed rule. Much depends
on discretion and circumstances. If we know ourselves,
we want to do what is best and just, and to show a proper
degree of humanity on the part of the Government.
"Judge Wardlaw remarked that they had not come
hither to express their own hopes and desires, but as dele-
gates from the South Carolina Convention, to present the
memorials of that body in a formal manner.
" The President.—We will, gentlemen, extend all the
facilities and courtesies which the questions require. We
would prefer to pardon 20 men than to refuse one.
"Judge Wardlaw replied that they did not design to say
anything with reference to Governor Magrath further than
that they believed much good would result by the exercise
of the executive clemency towards him.
" Col. Dawkins said—lf we can get Governor Magrath
paroled it would be a great relief to him at the present
time.

"Judge Wardlaw thanked the President for having re-
leased Messrs. Stephens and Trenhohn.

"The Presided.—We have that far, then, anticipated
your memorial.
" Mr. Huger said that Mr. Trenholm was one of their
most useful men, and there was no doubt he would exert all
his power with a view to entire harmony between the State
and Government.

" The President replied that he understood that was so,
adding, if treason was committed there ought to be some
test to determine the power of the Government to punish
the crime. He was free to say that it was not a mare con-
test between political parties or a question as to de facto
Governments. Looking at the Government as we do, the
laws violated and an attempt made at the life of the
nation, there should be a vindication of the Government
and the Constitution, even if the pardoning power were
exercised thereafter. If treason has been committed it
ought to be determined by the highest tribunal and the
fact declared, even if clemency should come afterward.
There was no malice or prejudice in carrying out that
duty.

"-Judge Wardlaw remarked they were well aware of
that.

" The President, resuming, said there may be some un-
kind feeling on this subject, but it did not exist to any
great extent _ _

- "Judge Wardlaw said, although not instructed by the
Convention, he was induced to ask whether Mrs. Jefferson
Davis, who was now confined to Georgia, could not cross
into South Carolina to see her friends.

The President replied that he had received letters from
Mrs. Davis, but they were not very commendable. The
tone of one of them, however, was considerably improved,
Ilut the others were not of the character becoming one
asking leniency.
" Judge Wardlaw interposed by saying she was a woman
of strong feeling.
" The President—Yes, I suppose she is a woman of
strong feeling and temper ; but there is no intention to
prosecute her. There is as much magnanimity and inde-
pendence and nobleness of spirit in submitting as in trying
to put the Government at defiance. True magnanimity
takes things as they are, and when taken in the proper way
I disconnect them from humiliation. Manifestations of
temper and defiance do no good.
" Mr Huger remarked that they had a deep conscious-
ness of the truth of all the President said.

" The President, resuming, observed that the character
of an individual may characterise a nation, which is no-
thing but an aggregate of individuals ; and when a proper
spirit is manifested all can act harmoniously. The man
who goes to the stake is almost dignified by his bearing ;
it lifts him above humiliation. In these cases, gentlemen,
we will do the best we can. While there is sympathy,
there is a public judgment which must be met. But I
assure you, gentlemen, no disposition exists for persecu-
tion or thirst for blood.

"Judge Wardlaw remarked that the tone of the news-
papers was more favourable, and different from what it
was. Ho then asked if the President had seen a copy of
the amended Constitution of South Carolina. Of course
he had seen that we accept emancipation. He felt per-
fectly satisfied that the person and property of the negro
would be protected, and spoke of the great difficulties of
regulating labour and restraining vagrancy, &c.
" The President thought many of the evils would dis-
appear if they inaugurated the right system. Pass laws
protecting the colored man in his person and property,
and he can collect his debts. He knew how it was in the
South. The questicn when first presented of putting a
colored man in the witness stand made them shrug their
shoulders. But the colored man's testimony was to be
taken for what it was worth by those who examine him
and the jury who hear it. After all, there was not so much
danger as was supposed. Those coming out of slavery
cannot do without work. They cannot lie down in dissi-
pation ; they must work. They ought to understand that
liberty means simply the right to work and enjoy the pro-
ducts of labour, and that the laws protect them. That
being done, and when we come to the period to feel that
men must work or starve, the country will bo prepared to
receive a system applicable to both white and black—
prepared to receive a system necessary to the case. A.
short time time back you could not enforce the vagrant
law on the black, but could on the white man. But get
the public mind right and you can treat both alike. Let us
get the general principles, and the details and collaterals
will follow.

"A conversation of some length ensued between the
President and Judge Wardlaw and Mr. Trescott as to the
legislation of the State necessary in reference to the con-
dition of the freedmen and to the scope and consequence
of the Circular No. 15, and_ General Order No. 145, from
the Adjutant-General's Department, relative to abandoned
lands in South Carolina and other Southern States. The
examination of these subjects, it is understood, is to be
continued at another interview.

" The President said—We must be practical, and come
up to surrounding circumstances.
"Judge Wardlaw, Colonel Dawkins, and Mr. Huger all
expressed to the President their conviction that the State
had accepted in good faith the result of the issue which
had been made ; that the people felt that the President
had stood between them and a harsh use of the powers of
the Government ' • that they felt entire confidence in
his purposes and actions, and hoped in return to en-
title themselves to his confidence as to their feelings
and actions. _ _

" The President replied he was glad to hear it ; that
whenever such mutual confidence existed there would, he
thought, be an open road to the restoration of good feeling
and a prosperous condition ; and that if he knew himself—
and he thought he did—he would recommend nothing but
what would advance their interests. So far from pandering
or looking to future elevation, he must be believed when
he said he had not an eye single to such preferment. If, he
continued, I could be instrumental in restoring the Govern-
ment to its former relations, and see the people once more
united and happy, I should feel that I had more than filled
the measure of my ambition. If I could feel that I had con-
tributed to thisin any degree, my heart would be more than
gratified, and my ambition full.
respond t
"Judge Wo
that.
"Mr. Huger.—l am sure there is on their part no Punic
aartdi..—Every man in South Carolina would
aw
faith. They deserve your confidence, and lam sure they
will earn it.
4, The President expressed himself gratified with what
had been said by these gentlemen.
Mr. Dawkins remarked that all South Carolina reposed
confidence in the President, and that the memorials pre-
sented by the chairman of the delegation represented the
true sentiments of the people of that State, both in regard
to those whom they wished pardoned and the feeling and
position of South Carolina."

The particulars of this interview are almost the only
subject of discussion here. Some of the Radicals are
"pitching into" the President for his tenderness to the
rebels. The Rev. HENRY WARD BEECHER comes out
strong in the New York Independent, denouncing in plain
language the leniency of President Joirtisox, and hinting
that the great Rdpublican party, who conducted the war
to a successful issue, is betrayed. But the people are more
than satisfied—they are delighted—and there is little
doubt that Mr. JOHNSON will be supported by the nation in
his grand work of reconciliation and reconstruction.
Speaker COLFAX and a party of tourists have been lately
visiting the Western territories. One of the party says that
the trees in Washington territory are so thick and so tall
that the ground in the forest could not hold them cut and
corded as wood. Nearly 100,000,000 feet of prepared lum-
ber, masts, and spars, are exported in a year. Trees six or
seven feet in diameter and 200 feet to 250 feet high are
stated to be very common, and perhaps rarely out of sight
in the forest ; 8 feet in diameter and 300 feet high are not
at all uncommon. The builder of the telegraph line has
hitched his wire in one instance to a cedar which is 14 feet
in diameter. COLFAX'S party saw one fallen tree 325 feet
long, and another tree at 90 feet from its root measured 7
feet in diameter. Masts are readily procurable straight as
an arrow and without a knot for 100 feet, 40 inches in
diameter at 30 feet from the base.
A correspondent of ono of the Philadelphia papers,
writing from Now York, gives these items regard-
ing the rebel refugee officers and privates now in the city.
He writes
It is astonishing to see thetofatehileiitly
ewyietshawnd ears
hiclsoimn ethoef
our Southern countrymen, up
recent rebellion, are betaking themselves to occupations to
which they had previously been entire strangers. A Mis-
sissippian, who acted as an aid to General Pemberton at
the siege of Vicksburg, has opened a brokers office in Han-
over-street, and is out in a card to-day soliciting, especially
the patronage of the New Orleans, Mobile, and Texan
friends. A little further down the same street, on the
other side of the way, an ex-rebel captain, who served
under Ewell, is filling a subordinate clerkship in a cotton
broker's counting-room. One of General Lee's staff is ne-
gotiating for the lease of a drinking saloon and ten-pin-
alley on Broadway, near Amity-street. One of Magruder's
adjutants has gone into the wholesale produce business at
Washington Market. In Bond-street there are at least
three large boarding-houses which are kept by the widows
of rebel officers who fell in battle in the Carolinas. In
Eighth AVOIIIIO, near Sixteenth-street, a pardoned ex-clerk
in the rebel Treasury department is selling cigars ; and

within a stone's throw of his shop is a rebel naval officer•
who led the memorable assault on the Harriett Lane at
Galveston. In the newspaper offices, likewise, may .be
found sundry persons who this time last year were firing
the Southern heart, to the best of their abilities, in the
journals published off in the interior of Georgia, Alabama,
and Louisiana."
Senator Doolittle, in a speech recently delivered
at
Milwaukie, made the following interesting statement :
"Mr. Johnson, the President of the United States, in-
formed me as early as 1857, after the Fremont campaign.
which ocurred in 185 G—he informed me that in the state
of Tennessee there arose an insurrection. If you remem-
ber, several of the slaves were taken, tried, and executed--
among others, the slaves of John Bell, then a senator
from that State. Mr. Johnson was then governor there.
There was then such an alarm in that State that a great
many persons and companies called upon him for arms.
He inquired for what purpose. They said to defend them;
selves against insurrection. Large quantities of arme
were distributed ; but when ho came to examine into tie
facts, be found the whites were organising in large num
bers, with the purpose of exterminating the whole ilegrt°
race in that portion of Tennessee. He was compelled.
.°
call out the militia, and use every exertion to prevent it•o
" In conversation with him not long since,
that while he would desire that those States, in the for
mation of their constitution, should do as they did In
Louisiana—strike out all constitutional restrictions 'LIP°
colored suffrage, and that the Legislature should bee r:
powered to extend, from time to time, the rights of i,
rage to certain superior classes of the colored peoPle
such as those who have performed military !service, Nne:(7
had for a long time been heads of families, d
an _ SUppOrt
them by their own industry, and who had demonstrate
clearly their intellectual fitness to exercise the right of
he said to In
suffrage—while he would be glad to see that comingfr°2l,o
the States themselves, as it was a right which the She,
alone should grant, he was decidedly of opinion that if bei
as President, in the present condition of the people thegj
in the present condition of the old prejudices, almost hat 0
existing between the two races, were to insist that suffrat,
should be granted to the mass of the colored people ...-
those States a condition precedent to their being ,ree°,,,s
nised as States in the Union, it would produce actilla„",„,.
between the blacks and the whites. Mr. Johnson, auk
life, had lived there, and has been Governor of TelneS;
before the rebellion, and Military Governor during
rebellion, and he knows what he says."
A new club has just ;gone into operation in this
including, among its members, Judge Hoffmann, Ames
Belmont, Gulian C. Vernplanck, Augustus Schell, Char,`,,,
O'Connor, John Van Buren, and other magnates of
Democratic party. They are now in treaty for the 12011-
sion formerly occupied by Dr. Moffatt, in Union-Sclgrf
next door to the Everett-house, and within a few
the hall occupied by the Loyal League Club. The

is to be called the Manhattan Club.
The Washington branches both of the Christion,A.a.
Sanitary Commissions closed their business on
The surplus stock of the Sanitary
Commission will be
at auction, that of the Christian Commission has bc,„ve
turned over to the Freedmen's Bureau. The Sanitary„'
Commission will continue its agency for soldiers' clams.B°