The Sun.
London, England, 1862-05-07 00:00:00

PETITIONS.

Petitions were presented by Sir E. Colebrooke, Lord E.
Scott and Mr. Finley, from various places in Scotland,
against certain portions of the Publichouses Act Amend-
ment Bill.
COUNTY COURTS PROCEDURE BILL.
Mr. M'MAHON moved the second reading of this bill,
the chief object of which was to give to parties suing in the
county courts the same right of appeal which they had in
the superior courts. In the county courts, where the sum
sued for was under £2O, the decision of the county court
judge was as absolute and irrevocable as the fiat of any
Turkish Pasha, and that was a state of the law which he
considered ought to be altered. It was, in fact, giving the
county court judges a penal power over the person it the
party sued ; and there was a case where a debtor was by
the judge consigned to prison for thirty days when the debt
was only tenpence. He did not vish by the measure to give
the right of appeal in all cases, but only when the judge
might see it necessary to give leave to appeal.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL opposed the measure.
The procedure and practice of the county courts were in a
great measure above the observati, n of the bar, or of the
class of attorneys and solicitors, and were in fact confined to
the County Court judges themselves. It was, therefore,
those parties who were best able to decide as to the work-
ing of that procedure and practice, and having obtained the
opinions of the majority of the judges of those courts, he
was bound to say that they were all opposed to the provi-
sions of this measure. Besides, that five out of the eleven
clauses of the present bill—namely, 2,7, 9, 10, and 11 were
all taken from the Common Law Procedure Act of 1852, and
were in operation at the present time in the procedure and
practice of the county courts. Of the remainingsix clauses,
three had relation to interpleaders, as to giving these courts
jurisdiction to entertain equitable defences; and one, the
eighth clause, to give the right of appeal. He considered
that the adoption of any of these clauses would have the
effect of interfering with the original purposes for which
the county courts were established, and he must, therefore,
oppose them. He had communicated with the county
court judges, for the purpose of ascertaining if any amend.
ment could be made in some portions of the county court
procedure, and on receiving their reply it might be
necessary to found a measure on their suggestion,
and in these circumstances ho would move that the bill be
read a second time that day six months.
Mr. HENLEY considered that having now almost re-
leased the upper and middle classes of imprisonment for
debt, it was unjust and unfair that the poorer classes sued
before the county court judge should be consigned to pri-
son simply upon the caprice of the judge. He thought
that was an anomaly in the law which ought to be amended.
Mr. AYRTON also condemned the present system of
imprisonment for debt as respected the lower classes. If
a man can manage to contract a debt of £2O or upwards be
would not be permitted to get into a prison, but might
release himself from the whole of his debts, while the poor
man, who could not manage to contract a debt of £2O, was
cast into prison for the small debts he had contracted, and
had the whole of his goods taken from him.
Sir G. GREY said the state of,the law was certainly an
anomaly, and would receive the attention of the Govern-
ment.
After a few words from Mr. M'MAnoN in reply, in the
course of which he stated that were the County Court
Judges consulted, as proposed by the Attorney-General, no
alteration of the law would ever take place, the second
reading of the bill was negatived without a divioion.

SMOKE NUISANCES (METROPOLIS) ACTS
AMENDMENT BILL.
This bill passed through committee, and was negatived
without amendment.
PUBLIC HOUSES (SCOTLAND) ACTS AMEND-

MENT BILL.
On the order of the day being read for going into com-
mittee on this bill,
Mr. CR. 3 UFURD moved as an amendment, " That in
the opinion of this house it is not expedient to sanction
any further legislation on the subject of Public Rouses
in Scotland which does not consolidate as well "as
amend the present acts." In moving that resolu-
tion, he was not opposing the measure before the house ;
but as there was much uncertainty and difficulty respecting
the existing law on the subject, what he wanted was, that
the matter should be postponed with a view to the consoli-
dation of the existing acts of Parliament, by which the
public-houses system in Scotland was regulated. All he
wanted was, that the House should not be called upon to
add confusion to confusion, which they would most certainly
be doing by adding this confused and unintelligible act to
the others equally confused and unintelligible which already
existed.

Mr. BUCHANAN having seconded the amendment,
Mr. MURE, who has charge of the measure, opposed the
amendment, on the ground that the adoption of it would
be the means of postponing all legislation upon it for the
present session. All the public bodies in Scotland had
petitioned the house in favour of the measure, and that at
all events showed that the measure in their estimation was
not so confused and unintelligible as the honourable and
learned gentleman seemed to insinuate.
Mr. BUCHANAN said so s- on as he heard of the mea-
sure being introduced he placed a notice on the paper that
any measure on the subject should have for its object the
consolidation of the sanitary law on the subject, and
therefore the hon. and learned gentleman who had
charge of the measure could not complain of
the present amendment. He was astonished this
motley piece of parchment should have been offered
to the House of Commons. The men who it would affect
belonged to the lowest class of society, and men carrying
on public-houses were not to be expected to understand and
comprehend all the minutiae and whereabout of these acts
of Parliament, which even the judges who had to carry
thorn into effect did not understand. He was not un-
friendly to legislation on the subject and to an improvement
of the present law ; but, as he believed this measure would
make matters worse, he should oppose it. •
Major HAMILTON considered the question to be
whether they would throw out the present measure for this
session or not, and as he was not prepared to do that he
would oppose the amendment.
Mr. LESLIE, as a member of the Royal Commis-
sion who inquired into and reported upon the public-house
system in Scotland, stated that out of the seventeen
recommendations of that commission he considered that
the present measure embraced fourteen, and therefore
he should give it his cordial support. The measure was
not a restrictive but a protective one to enable the
people of Scotland to protect themselves from the terrible
inroads which intemperance was making upon them, and
he hoped the measure would soon be brought into operation.
Mr. W. EWART said that he would vote for going into
committee, but on the understanding that there should be
a consolidation of the law next session of parliament.
The LORD ADVOCATE supported the measure on the
same grounds.
Sir E. COLEBROOK E suggested that they should pass
the bill through committee, and then have it recommitted
for the purposes of consolidation.
Mr. BASS said as the law on the subject was so doubt-
ful they should pass those clauses of the bill which were
absolutely necessary, and then have the law on the subject
consolidated next session.
After some further discussion the amendment was nega-
tived without a division, and the Speaker having left the
chair, the house went into committee on the bill.
On clause 1,
Mr. DALGLISH proposed to add a proviso, to the
effect that the appeals from the justices and magistrates, in
cases of granting licensing certificates, should be taken to
the Sheriff instead of to the Quarter Sessions, as at present
the appeals to the latter were simply an appeal from the
justices to the justices.
Mr. MURE, while he admitted that some other tribunal
of appeal might be advantageously established, thought
the Sheriff was not the proper party,
and he 1140 die
amendment would not be passed.
did also the
Mr. CRAUFURD supported the proviso, as
LORD ADVOCATE, as he considered the appellant jutlts-
diction of the licensing system the least satisfactory portion
of the working of it.
it stood was
simply
appeal C01.
eYmK
Philip
i said itde the
Philip, l clause i
usei was of opinion that
some different tribunal of appeal should be established.
n
a
After some further discussion, the proviso was withdrawn
a clause appointing a court of
with the report.
appeal
uwneduel rds tbaet na
ought
ht that p
aut
The clause was then agreed to.
On clause 2,
URD proposed to introduce words giving
irits, who were also wholesale dealers,
retail dealers of sp
power to send out on permits the articles specified in the
Mr. CRATIF
license certificates at other hours than those specified in
such certificates, the object being to place wholesale and
retail dealers on an equal footing as to sending out spirits
on permit.
The amendment was, however, after some discussion,
negatived without a division.
Clause 2 was then agreed to, as were also clauses 3-to 12
inclusive.

In clause 13, which provides for the police having autho-
rity to enter the houses of wholesale spirit dealers,
Mr. CRAUFURD complained that while the measure
protected the wholesale spirit dealer from the visits of the
police, except in cases where there was reason to belive that
a breach of certificate was being committed, it gave no such
protection to the respectable hotel keeper, whose
premises might be invaded at any time, and on any or no
pretence whatever. He therefore proposed that they should
be placed upon the same footing by inserting the words in

which he has reason to believe, a breach of certificate is
being committed.
•"

MURE opposed the amendment,, and the committee.
having divided, there appeared—
For the amendment
Against it

Majority against the amendment.. ---86
The clause was then agreed to.
Clauses from 14 to 33 inclusive were agreed to, with

some verbal amendments, when a quarter to six having
arrived, the chairman lett the chair and reported progress,
and the house resumed.
INLAND REVENUE AND CUSTOMS ESTA-

BLIS 11M E NTS.
On the motion of Mr. HORSFALL the following com-
mittee was appointed to the Inland Revenue and Customs
establishment:—Mr. Horsfall,gllr• Psel, Mr. Hankey, Sir
IL Willoughby, Mr. E. P. Bonverie, Mr. Chas. Turner,
Mr. Milner Gibson, Lord Robert 11Iontagu, Mr. William
E. Forster, Sir S. Northcote, Mr. Hennessy, Sir, E. Gro_
gan, Mr. Liddell, Mr. Laird, and Sir W. Hayter.
The house adjourned at 10 minutes to 6.

PARLIAMENTARY DIVISION.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.-MAY 6.

MAYNOOTH COLLEGE.
Motion made, and Question Int, "That this House will
immediately resolve itself into a Committee to consider
the Act of the Bth and 9th Victoria, for the Endowment
of the College of Mayn, oth, with a view to the repeal of
the same, due regard being had to vested rights and irate•
rests" (Mr. Whalley). The House divided—Ayes, 111
Noes, 193.