The Sun.
London, England, 1862-03-26 00:00:00

to his rule. After that change was made various events
and circumstances took place,and the Russian Ambassadors
at this and the other Courts of Europe were in -tructed to
state to the different Governments what were the intentions
of the Emperor. The noble earl has stated most truly that
these intentions comprised a Council of State which should
be provided with members not belonging to the official hier-
archy, meaningf
by that some ludependent members whose
advice sh1:411c1 be asked by
the Government. Another
artic-le was to secure municipal councils, which were to bo
Jective. A third provision was for a council upon eccle-
' siastical matters, and with that council was connected the
subject of education, I must say that I think those pro-
positions wise, and not only wise but likely to lead the way
to the enjoyment of greater privileges by the Poles when
they should have had the benefit of national administration,
and when, by education, they should have been raised in
tho scale of nations. (Hear, hear.) The circular despatch
was read by the Ambassador of the Emperor of Russia,but
no copy of it was left. However, it soon afterwards became
public, and I will read a passage to show the spirit in which
these propositions were meant—a spirit highly honourable
to the Emperor, and demonstrating the benevolent views
with which he acted :

" The solemn act of emancipation inaugurated by the
manifesto of the 19th of February attests the profound soli-
citude which our august master devotes to the wellbeing of
the peoples whom Providence has confided to him. Russia
and Europe have seen in it a proef that, far from evading
or postponing reforms demanded by the progress of ideas
in
itiative
and of interests, his Imperial Majesty takes the
and pursues it with perseverance. Our august master ex-
tends the same solicitude to his subjects of the kingdom of
Poland, and has not wished that a painful impression
should arrest the course of his generous intentions." i
That was a voluntary declaration on the part of the Empe-
ror of Russia. It showed, in the first place, that he did
conceive himself bound by the general provisions of the
Treaty of Vienna to Europe to give a liberal and generous
Government to Poland, and in the next place it showed that
Poland was a country to which especial care would be
given. Unhappily Poland, when she has excited our sym-
pathy, has generally excited our sorrow. There happened
those painful events to which the noble earl has referred, in
which the Poles by appearing in the streets in great crowds
wished to manifest their attachment to their nationality,
but at the same time excited apprehensions, not unreason-
able, that tranquillity might be disturbed. I took oceision
in the other house to state that while I thought them appre-
hensions not unnatural, it was the duty of the Goveanment
to give notice that no crowds would be permitted—that to
attack an unarmed multitude by means of soldiery, with-
out notice, was an act of rigour and cruelty, and from that
opinion I cannot depart. (Cheers.) The Prince who then
commanded at Warsaw did me the honour to write a letter
to a person in this country, who communicated the letter
to me, endeavouring to show that due notice had been
given to the people by proclamations. I am convinced
that Prince Gortachakoff felt great interest, I believe
almost affection, towards the people over whom he was
placed, and that he did not intend to aet with harshness
and cruelty. At the same time I cannot depart from
my opinion that the acts then committed produced
irritation which was but natural and justifiable under the
circumstances. (Hear, hear.) Matters proceeded. The
people paraded the streets. National hymns were sung in
the churches, Upon that subject the Russian Government
was extremely susceptible. I had some of these hymns sent
over and translated. One at least, if not more, was sanc-
tioned by the Emperor Alexander, but the hymns were cer-
tainly addressed to the national spirit, excited the Poles to
maintain their national character, and evidently had refer-
ence to some period when they should maintain their cha-
racter as an independent nation. I cannot wonder that the
Russian Government should wish to prevent such hymns
being sung. But the way in which the people were shut
up in the churches, and then let out, as described by the
noble earl, appears to me to have been utterly unjustifiable.
I have no doubt that a deep feeling of anger and resentment
was theconseqnence, and that it produced national irrita-
tion, dejection, and alarm. At the same time, we must not
only regard the circumstances which makeus look on Poland
with compassion, but also the original intentions of the
Russian Government, and what may be expected from them.
ith regard to the state of siege, I do not think it possible
for any foreign Government or any individual 'to say what
measures a Government ought to take in order to preserve
its own internal tranquillity. (Hear, hear.) Whether those
measures be taken at Warsaw, whether they be taken in
Hungary, or whether they be taken in the United States
across the Atlantic, if the Government says such measures
are necessary to secure obedience to the law and to keep the
State and society together, I think credit should be given
to the Government as knowing best what is necessary for
its own internal tranquillity, and that, at all events, it is
not for other Governments to interfere. (Hear.) But,
with regard to a state of siege, it must always be deemed a
temporary measure, and I cannot but hope that before
long some relaxations will be made. I quite admit that
at the end of four months the mitigations are trifling ;
but it shows a feeling on the part of Russia that such a
mode of government cannot be kept up, and that they
are looking to a return to a better state of things. There
are other circumstances of a hopeful character, A Pole
(the Marquis Wielopolski) was summoned to St. Petersburg
to give advice to the Emperor, and, if general rumours are
correct, the advice which he gave was'very wise, and well
befitting a man who takes a great interest in his own coun-
try, while thinking it hopeless to sever the connexion be-
tween it and Russia. He proposed that there should be a
civil government for Poland, entirely separated from the
military government; that the civil governor should be a
Pole; that the offices of the administration should be filled
by Poles ; that the laws of Poland should have their free
course, under a Polish administration; that the people should
enjoy as many privileges as were consistent with their con-
dition ; and that the troops should never be employed ex-
cept in cases of public disturbances, or against external vio-
lence. That proposition was not adopted by the Russian
Government of the period; at the same time, it was not
wholly rejected or thrown aside. On the contrary, much
favour was shown to the distinguished man who gave that
advice, and it was courteously and graciously received by
the Emperor. I see no reason to doubt, or at all events to
despair, of advice of that kind being taken at some future
time, and that the Poles will have the benefit of a govern-
ment of their own nationality. Now, a country subjected
to foreign sway may be reconciled to it by a government of
that kind. There was a great instance of this in the go-
vernment of Italy under the first Napoleon. He had the
supreme military command over Italy ; but he did not place
there a French administration and a French government.
On the contrary, Italians of distinguished talent were placed
in the government of Italy. By that means the people of
Italy were reconciled to the foreign power of Napoleon. But
there are other circumstances that justify us in locking for
some mitigation of the grievances of the Poles. Tho Em-
peror of Russia has granted to all his subjects who were in
the state of serfdom an emancipation from that condition,
and we may look forward to the period when all these men
will be free. Now, no one can expect that the change will
stop there. When this class settles in the towns and cities of
Russia, it is quite impossible that the monopoly of power
by the nobles can be maintained. Indeed, a great portion of
the nobles have declared their wish to slLtrewith those who
were serfs, but who will be their fellow-subjects, all the ad-
vantage s and:all the privileges that can be attained under a
freer government. And when the Russian people have ob-
tained a government more in accordance with the views and
general system of Europe, must not that have a great influ-
ence on the condition of Poland ? If the noble lord, who
has paid so much attention to the subject, will refer back
to the year 1831, he will find the feeling prevalent among
the Russians was, not only that the Poles were in rebellion
and insurrection against the Government of Russia, but
that it was unjust and unfair that the Poles should, since
1815, have been in the enjoyment of greater privileges
than the Russians possessed themselves. There was a sort I
of national envy in regard to the Poles and the privileges
they possessed. But if the Russians once come into the
enjoyment of greater privileges and freedom, so far from
having a feeling of hostility to the Poles, they will be glad
to see theta also in the enjoyment of civil and religious
liberty. Not only my observation of the past, but my ex-
pectations of the future lead to this result. But I must end
as I began, by saying that while nothing could give me in-
dividually, or the Government collectively, greater satisfac-
tion than to see happiness and peace prevail in Poland, I
do not think any immediate interference, and still less con-
stant remonstrance with the Government of Russia, will
/fleet the object proposed. (Hear, hear.) I am very glad
that the noble lord, who has spoken with so much discre-
tion and so much ability, has called your lordships' atten-
tion to the subject; but I do not think anything immediate
can be done, though I do trust that, as in other parts of the
world oppression is gradually decreasing, so it is decreasing
in Poland.

The Earl of CARNARVON briefly replied, and
Their lordships adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS—YESTERDAY.
The SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock.
MEW MEMBERS.

Mr. MoRRITT took the oaths and his seat on his elec-
t iou fur the North Riding., and Mr. J. R. Mills fur Chip-,
ping Wycombe.

PRIVATE BUSINESS,

The Berwick-upon-Tweed Harbour Bill and the Fros-
terly and Stanhope Railway Bill were read a third time
and passed.

Tiro following bills were considered and ordered for third
reading : Coventry Poor Act Amendment, Daventry
Railway, and Leeds, Bradford, and Halifax Junction Rail-
way.