The Sun.
London, England, 1865-03-24 00:00:00

Commons and Open Spaces Round the
Metropolis.

EARL SPENCER AND WIMBLEDON-
COMMON:

The committee appointed to inquire into the best
means of preserving for public use the forests, com-
mons, and open spaces in and around the metropolis
met again yesterday ; Mr. Locke in the chair.
Nearly the whole of the members were present.
Earl Spencer was called in and examined. In
reply to questions by Lord Bury the noble earl said,
—I possess considerable rights over Wimbledon-
common, and propose to dedicate a considerable
portion of those rights to the public. Those rights
are disputed. lam prepared with legal evidence to
substantiate them primei fade. In a letter addressed
to my solicitor, dated the 31st of January, I proposed
to submit to Parliament an amended bill, with the
desire of having the whole case considered, so that
the scheme might be carried out in the form most
conducive to the public interests. I also stated my
willingness to acquiesce in the decision of the com-
mittee. When I wrote that letter I was not aware
that I should have the opportunity of coming before
this committee. I thought the measure would take
the ordinary course of a private bill, and be referred
to a select committee. lam quite prepared to en-
dorse what I said, and to consider any suggestion
that may be made, but Ido not wish to be exclu-
sively bound by anything the committee may de-
cide. I would give the fullest consideration to any
suggestion that might be made. lam glad to have
the opportunity of stating to the committee my rea-
sons for bringing the bill before Parliament. The
committee are aware of the increasing population
and increasing number of houses near Wimbledon-
common. I have within the last few years received
numerous complaints from the inhabitants ; they
complain of bad drainage, of encroachments on the
common, of rubbish disfiguring the common, of the
gipsies and tramps that frequent the common,
and various other things. Considerable uncer-
tainty exists with respect to the commoners'
rights, and that feeling of uncertainty is inju-
rious to the public interest as well as to my own.
I feel the importance of this large space to the public;
and wish, as much as possible, to protect and retain
to the public use this large open space. I am aware
of the feeling which exists with regard to preserva-
tion of open spaces, and, sharing to a great extent
in that feeling, I proposed the measure to which I
have referred. Within the last few years there have
been many railway and other schemes the promoters
of which have endeavoured to establish themselves
on the common. The uncertainty which pre-
vails respecting the different rights which exist in-
duced me to propose a scheme for the settlement of
the matter. I propose to drain the common, to
improve the roads, to remove nuisances, to regulate
common rights, to define and restrict my own
rights, and to dedicate to the public a space amount-
ing to nearly 700 acres, under proper and responsible
management. I propose to run a fence round the
space to be dedicated to the public, and am quite
prepared to urge strong reasons why I think a fence
of some sort would be advantageous to the public.
I am prepared to lay out any large sum for the pur-
pose of drainage and improvement, and I think a
fair way of meeting the expense will be to sell out-
lying portions of the common for that purpose. The
land to be sold is laid out in classes, and if the first
class is sufficient to meet the expenses there will be
no necessity for selling the second. With regard to
the gravel, I propose to transfer to the public my
actual right in the soil. lam ready to consider the
best mode of giving these advantages to the public,
but if my rights are disputed I must reserve the
question for further consideration.
Considerable doubts exist as to the relative rights
of the copyholders, the commoners, and the public.
Would your scheme remove these difficulties ?—lt
would place on a proper footing the rights of the
commoners and the public.
What encroachments have been made ?—Cattle
have been turned on the common by people who
claimed the right of doing so. On one occasion
there was a difficulty with regard to a sale of land,
and there have been indefinite claims with regard
to management. Last year two, if not three, rail-
way companies wished to come across the common.
The undefined rights which I possess do not enable
me to deal satisfactorily with the common ; if the
bill passes it will give the public the enjoyment of
the common.

With respect to the scheme of drainage and the
improvement of the fences, do you mean to leave the
common as it is, or to dress it up ?—I have no wish
to make it a London park. I wish to retain the
wild heath-like beauty of the place ; but it is so un-
drained that at many times it is unhealthy to the
neighbourhood, and even in summer it is occasion-
ally quite a swamp.
Some misapprehension has arisen as to what is
called the inclosure. Will you state what sort of

fence you propose ?—I propose to make a fence
sufficient to keep out the gipsies' camps and wag-
gons. I have no wish to make it a high enclosure.
Without a fence it would be impossible to remove the
nuisance of the gipsies. There are various inlets to
the common, and it is almost impossible to prevent
them from encamping there. I believe a light fence
will be a great advantage to the public—a fence to
keep carts from going on, and to keep cattle within.
If a fence should be placed there people in carriages
or on horseback could enter at the gateways.
With regard to your own rights, what have they
hitherto been ?—I have exercised the rights of pas-
turage, gravel-digging, and turf-cutting. I propose
to retain them. lat first proposed to work the
gr

'avel myself, but I afterwards thought that a rent-
charge would be better.
You propose to give up all your rights, reserving
the estimated value of the gravel digging and the
residue of the profits of grazing after all expenses of
the park are paid ?—Yes ; I propose to pay off the
copyholders from the sale of the land, and that
there shall be no other rights except my own and
those of the public.
What is your proposal with respect to the ma-
nagement ?—I did propose to have the management
vested in the lord of the manor, but, thinking
that may interfere with the rights of the public, I
proposed to vest the management in some Govern-
ment official, the whole park to be subject to
certain bye-laws. That scheme did not appear to
be satisfactory, and I introduced an amendment
into the bill, placing the management in trustees,
one of them being thc lord of the manor, another
to be chosen by the Crown, and the third to be one
of the Inclosure Commissioners. If these should
not be thought sufficient, I am willing to introduce
others. Some opposition has been made with re-
spect to the National Rifle Association ; but I pro-
pose to place the management in the hands of per-
sons who shall be independent of local influence.
With regard to the sale of land. I suppose it is
with that means you propose to pay the expenses of
the scheme ?—The estimated value of the land
scheduled is about £44,000. The sale of land
is necessary for the purpose of carrying out the
details of the scheme. The cost of the improve-
ments will be about £14,000. The sale of a
small proportion of the land scheduled would
be quite sufficient to cover that expense.
The drainage will cost about £3,000 ; the fence,
supposing it to be a high one, like that round the
Regent's-park, will cost £4,800, but a mere post and
rail fence will diminish the expense materially. The
cost of the general improvements will be about
£l,OOO, of the lodges £2,000, and of the roads £l,OOO.
About £5,000 will be required for compensation.
What is the quantity of land ?—lt is 845 acres 1
rood 30 poles. Considerable objection is entertained
at Putney and Roehampton to the sale of any of the
land. It has been suggested that the park might
be maintained by a rate, or by a public subscription.
I believe, however, that there would be considerable
difficulty in fixing a rate. I should prefer giving
up the common to a responsible public body rather
to any local authorities.
By the Chairman—The extent of the common is
about 1,000 acres. The quantity proposed to be
sold is 158 acres 1 rod 30 poles. The original pro-
position was to convert the remainder into an in-
closed park. I have some land in the centre of
the common. I have recently purchased the lease
of a mill there. I thought I might some day pos-
sibly build a house there, and therefore I have re-
served that portion of the property in the bill. The