The Sun.
London, England, 1865-05-16 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, MAY 16, 1865.

had been made out for further inquiry. Since this
bill had been introduced the Hon. and Rev. Mr.

Talbot (the chairman of the Staffordshire Quarter Sessions)
presented to him an address, in which he said that as a
ratepayer in a rural parish, where there was not a single
pauper, he would have if the measure passed to pay a large
sum for the relief of the rest of the union, but he felt it his

duty to look at the matter from a wider point of view than
that of personal interest—(cheers)--and he would support
the bill, believing thoroughly that it would have the effect
of encouraging landowners and farmers to build cottages
for their workpeople near to the place of their employment.
(Cheers.) This gentleman went on to say he had frequently
observed that where a man had lived near his work he was
still active at 50 or 60 years of age, whereas the labourer
who had to walk two or three miles to and from his work

every day was worn out when he reached that ago ; and
he added that he sincerely believed the proposed change
would be beneficial to the poor. (Hear, hear.) The late

Mr. Her Seymer, one of those country gentlemen who filled
them with hope that the party to which he belonged would
keep pace with the progress of the country—(hear, hear)—
a liberal-minded man, who had the courage to express his
views, in speaking on Mr. 13aines's bill, which embraced
some of the principles of the present measure, said that the
parochial system might be valuable for church purposes ;
but it did not follow that it was good for the relief of the

poor ; and he said also that its tendency was to pervert the
best feelings of nature. It was the opinion of Mr. Her
Seymer that, under the present law, for one man who left
his settlement and returned a pauper one hundred were

prevented from seeking employment ; that the effect of this
alteration of the law would be to make all board of guardians
more careful with respect to the relief of the poor, and that
there was no reason why an alteration in the present law
should lead to a national rate. Therefore he (Mr. K. Seymor)
should give the Government measure his hearty support.
But returns had been obtained from the Registrar-General

showing the condition of the agricultural labourer under the
circumstances. ,They were remarkable, and, indeed, rather
striking. The returns of mortality among the different
classes of people in the unions had been furnished from two

unions. It was stated in those returns that any advantages
which might be derived from good drainage were counter-
acted by overcrowding in cottages ; that the ratio of deaths
from zymotic diseases was double among the labourers as
compared with the upper classes ; and that the deaths in
the Reading district showed 17 among tho labouring class,

as against 9- of the upper class. There seemed a concur-

rence of testimony that deaths resulted from labourers

being unable to procure residences in close villages, and

being driven into the open villages. ft was for the cond.

deration of those who had influence in these matters to say

whether this system should continue or not. He was very
sorry to hear the decision of the right hon. member for
Oxfordshire, who thought there was nothing at all the
matter, and believed the people were not crowded together.
Mr. HENLEY—I never said they were not crowded. I
spoke strongly to the contrary.
Mr. VILLIERS said ho believed the right hon. gentle-
man spoke of the cock-and-bull story about the people
being crowded.
Mr. HENLEY—I said a cock-and-bull story about houses
being demolished. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. VILLIERS—WeII, what was the fact? Did the
houses keep up with the population, or did they not ? if
they inquired into the matter fully—(Opposition cheers)—
they would have to inquire in another tribunal. (Oh.) But
let not this be thought a party matter. (Hear, hear.) It
had been imputed that there was something like an election
purpose in this measure—(cheers)—something like a desire
to influence the towns. (Hear, hear.) He could not do
better than refer to an extract from an organ of the right

hon. gentleman's own views—a purely Conservative journa
(cries of " Name ")—the Lancashire Courier. Thai
journal stated that in hundreds of parishes all over the
country the same cry of insufficient accommodation was
raised, that from this cause the labouring classes suffered
morally as well as physically, and that the evils arising out
of over-crowding struck at the root of morality and religion
—that over-crowded cottages were nests of disease, that
fever was spreading on the continent, and that if it came
here it was impossible to see the final result. It was urged
also that unless immediate steps were taken in the face of
such danger the working classes would be decimated. The
right hon. gentleman had referred to the prize essays of the
Royal Agricultural Society as to the condition of the
labourers. He (Mr. Villiers) had looked over those refer-
ences made by Dr. Hunter, or rather Dr. Simon. Those
prize essays said on the subject of cottage property, with
respect to Somersetshiro, that out of NO parishes there wore
upwards of 300 where the houses had decreased and the
population increased. In Northamptonshire a system of de-
' population had been systematically carried on for a consi-
derable length of time, and more cottages were sadly wanted.
In Buckinghamshire there was insufficiency of cottage
room ; in Devonshire the small number and untenable con-
dition of the cottages obliged many of the labourers to re-
side in town ; in Bedfordshire and Warwickshire the want
of comfortable cottages was a crying evil in many parishes;
and in Norfolk perhaps the worst cases of all wore to be
found—(hear, hear)—the houses being small and dear. In
Oxfordshire the cottages must not be supposed to be nearly
as perfect as they ought to be. (Hear.) In every case where
the discussion arose between parish and parish the result
was an evident desire to get rid of the poor. This mea-
sure was founded upon right principles and upon the evi-
dence taken by their committees which had sat upon the
subject of poor removal, and it was founded upon evidence
of very high authority. All the evidence was in favour
of such a measure. Now, during the next session, the act
would expire which provided for the rating of stock-in-
trade to the relief of the poor, and it would be for the
legislature to decide whether the act should be continued
or not, and if it wore proposed to inquire into
the question whether mines and other things should bo
assessed which were now exempted he would support such
an inquiry. (Hear, hear.) the present measure had been
recommended by many select committees of that house, and
it seemed to him to be a safe and proper and legitimate pro-
posal for the house to adopt. It was well known that
there had been great difficulty in dealing with the subject
of poor removal and settlement, and it arose chiefly in con-
sequence of a want of uniformity of assessment of the pro-
perty in unions. A measure was submitted with a view of
carrying out a better system of assessment, and it was
adopted, and now greater uniformity prevailed everywhere.
A nearer value of the property in every parish had been
arrived at since the chance in the law of assessment was
made, and a further change in the law was made in this
respect, that no person after living three years in a parish
could be removed at all. The house allowed an act to be
passed in 1861 which empowered parishes to throw charges
upon a common fund, and the hon. member for Worcester-
shire saw that a measure of the present nature could not
be long resisted—he saw that it was to be the next step—
that there must bo union rating: It was clear that they
must go forward or backward, for the question could not
remain where it was now placed. (Hear, hear.) He hoped
after the full explanation which had been given that his
hon. friend the member for Whitby would not press his
amendment, but that he would allow the bill to go into
committee. (Hear, hear.)
Earl PERCY was understood to say that his principal
object in rising was to express an opinion that the right
hon. gentleman had been wrongly informed when he stated
that the farmers were in favour of this measure, for he had
received remonstrance after remonstrance from farmers
against the bill. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. THOMPSON said that after the appeal which had
been made to him by the right hon. gentleman, and seeing
that a dissolution was expected in July, he would not press
his amendment, but ask leave to withdraw it. (No, no.)
The house then divided, when there appeared—
For going into committee upon the bill 266
Against 93-173
Upon the question that the house should go into com-
mittee,
Mr. HENLEY explained that he had not in his speech
said ho was satisfied with the dwellings of the labouring
poor. On the contrary, he said he was not satisfied with
hem, and he thought much remained to be done to im-
prove them. Ho was, therefore, anxious to relieve himself
from the charge which the right hon. the President of the
Poor-law Board attempted to cast upon him. (Hear, hear.)
He wished to add that his opinions with regard to the law
of settlement were perfectly well known, and he trusted
the right hon. gentleman would support the amendments
of which ho had given notice, for doing away with all
settlements whatever. (Hear, hear.) He had no objection,
as far as ho was concerned, to the house going into com-
mittee, but ho hoped it would be understood that the chair-
man should at once report progress, as it was quite impos-
sible to proceed with the clauses at that hour. (Hear.)
The house then went into committee upon the bill pro
forma. It was ordered that the committee should sit again
on Thursday.
The Salmon Fishery Act, 1861, Amendment Bill, and
the Exchequer Bonds (41,000,000) Bill, were road a second
time.

The Customs and Inland Revenue Bill, and the Prisons
(Scotland) Act Amendment Bill, were read a third time
and passed.
Other bills were advanced a stage, and the house ad-
journed at one o'clock.

ABERDEEN.—RESPITE OF STEPHEN, THE MUR-
DEILER.—On Saturday a communication was received by
the Lord Provost of Aberdeen from Secretary Sir George
Grey, granting a respite to George Stephen. under sentence
of death here for murder, during her Majesty's pleasure.
This decision, it is understood, proceeds upon a certificate
by medical men that the prisoner is in an insane condition.
On the intelligence being communicated to him Stephen
betrayed no emotion. The result gives general satisfaction
in the town.

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