The Sun.
London, England, 1862-02-07 00:00:00

national law which not unnaturally arose in the case of the
Trent. But I have seen various speculations with regard
to a congress of nations convened for the purpose of newly
establishing the principles of inteinational law. I earnestly
trust that the Government will Le extremely cautious how
they enter upon any such negotiation. (Hear, hear,) We
have had upon the present occasion to sustain the rights of
neutrals ; but we must not forget that we have a great and
preponderating interest in maintaining the legitimate rights
of belligerents, and that this country, while disclaiming for
itself all undue exercise of those rights, cannot afford to
sacrifice such legitimate exercise of belligerent power as is
justified by the law of nations. (Hear, hear.) Now I con-
fess that I r egretted—and I expressed my regret at the time
—the sacrifice which, as I thought, my noble friend (Lord
Clarendon) made in 1856, when he consented, on the part
of the Government of this country, to the principle that
enemy's goods should be safe on board neutral vessels. I
thought this a dangerous concession for a country situated
as ours is, and I remonstated against it. Undoubtedly, it
is true that that agreement has not up to the present mo-
ment the binding force of a treaty, nor has it been ratified
by the Sovereign. It does not alter the real state of inter-
national law, but I hold that with regard to all the Powers
whose representatives signed this paper, and have not since
been disavowed by their Sovereigns, those Powers are
morally bound by the liabilities and the obligations im-
posed upon them at the time. Now if we had gone to war
with the Federal States, I will ask in passing, what would
hare been the result of our adoption of the doctrines of the
Congress ? We had an agreement—l won't call it a con-
vention— with France. We had no agreement with Ame-
rica. In the event of war with America, therefore, Ame-
rican merchandise on board a French vesselwould, by our
obligations with France, be safe against our cruisers, and
American commerce would enjoy impunity when carried on
in French vessels, owing to an agreement in which America
had no part. (Hear.) Thus the treaty would have a very
one-sided operation, and one nation would secure all the
benefits without being a party to it, while the other would
sacrifice all its advantage because she was a party to it.
That is a position in which England ought not to stand
towards any country whatever. I recollect asking at the
time whether this would not have been the consequences
of the agreement, but I did not succeed in extracting any
satisfactory explanation on the subject. Then, I see sug-
gestions made that it is contrary to the humane doctrines
on which war is now carried on in modern times, to keep
up any distinction as to contraband goods, and that all neu-
tral vessels, wherever they may be bound, should be left to
pass at their free will and pleasure, without any right of
search, and without any interference whatever. I can
only say that I hope the noble earl the Secretary of State
for Foreign Affairs would never consent to abandon a
right which he must feel is essential to the maintenance
of our position among nations. The other topics of the
Speech are not such as to call for lengthened observations.
I sheuld hope the Government will be able to give the
House before long explanations—which are certainly
much required—not only of the convention itself, but
also of the manner in which it is to be acted upon by the
three Powers which are parties to an interference in the
of of Mexico. I know well into what a state of
anarchy and confusion for many years Mexico has fallen.
I know well how many causes of complaint all neutral
nations have to make against the successive Governments
which have distracted rather than ruled in that country,
and it has been my painful duty to advise the Crown to
introduce into a speech from the Throne a paragraph re-
ferring to the subject—the enforcement of the just de-
mands of this country. I think that matters of this kind
are best settled by the individual action of each separate
State, but I do not complain that in this instance there
should have been a convention between three great
Powers, each of whom had similar wrongs to complain of,
and each of whom had agreed to a similar course to obtain
reparation. But if lam to believe the statements in the
public prints I cannot help fearing and suspecting that one
at least, if not two, of our allies are disposed to enter upon
operations of a more extended character than are contem
plated by the terms of the convention, and I shall be glad
to hear from the noble earl the Foreign Secretary, or the
President of the Council, that in all matters relating to
Mexico there has been a thorough and entire agreement in
the course of proceeding to be adopted by the three Powers.
Again, we have not before us the convention that has been
entered into with the Emperor of Morocco. It is one as far
as I am aware of a very unusual character, but one that I
frankly admit may be justified by the peculiar nature of
the case out of which it has arisen. I apprehend the object
of the convention is to secure to the Government of Morocco
a sum of money upon the security of the customs' duties of
the outports, and those duties are to be collected, as I un-
derstand, by British authorities, and the balance paid over
to the Government of Morocco, after retaining sufficient to
secure a sum to be advanced to liquidate the claims of Spain,
and for which she still holds as guarantees Tetuan and other
points on the coast of Morrocco. Tbis is a subject of great
interest in this country, and the noble earl the Foreign
Secretary will remember that Spain disclaimed any intention
of permanent occupation of any part of the coast. It is im-
portant that no such occupation should be allowed, seeing
how much our interests atGibraltar may be dependent upon
the Power which holds the opposite coast. As to other mea-
sures, I rejoice to find, as far as we can judge from the an-
nouncement in the speech, that they aro likely to be confined
to such measures as will probably not lead to any party con-
flicts—measures which we can discuss in a calm, impartial,
and unprejudiced spirit. The particular measure of simpli-
fication of the transfer of land is one of great importance.
The subject had attracted the notice of former Governments,
and a Bill was introduced, which I hope will be closely
followed in that which is to be submitted to us in a short
time, when my hon. and learned friend Sir 11. Cairns filled
the office of Solicitor-General. It is a subject requiring
close attention, and I am sure your lordships will consider
it calmly and having regard to the interests of all concerned.
Before I sit down I may allude for one moment to one subject
which is not referred to in the Queen's speech, and upon
which, although it is not a subject generally discussed in
this house, I think we ought to have some information as
to the intentions of the Government. I refer to the recent
Minutes of the Committee of Council on Education. The
subject has attracted great and general attedtion. lam no
way disposed to blame the originators of those minutes;
but I find that some of the alterations will have effects Which
could not have been contemplated ; some will involve
breach of faith which the Government cannot intend ;
others, I think, are ill adapted for the objects they are de-
signed to accomplish, and others will be found to be fraught
with
injustice and disadvantage. But the peculiarity of the
question is this, that in consequence of the manner in
which the sanction of Parliament is obtained to the scheme,
this house—although many of us are deeply interested in
the question—will have no legitimate mode of expressing an
opinion upon the scheme. The plan is submitted to the
consideration of the House of Commons, not to be embodied
in a bill, but in the shape of a particular vote of money. I
think it is important that we should have some opportunity
of considering these important alterations, and I hope the
noble earl the President of the Council will state, not that
the Government intends to adhere to every clause and pro-
vision of those minutes—for if he does I shall be astonished
and disappointed—but I hope he will state that in some way,
and, if he can, in what manner, he will submit this ques-
tion to the consideration of this house, and enable your
lordships to give an opinion upon the details, which no
body of men are more capable of giving. I need not now
further trouble your lordships with any observations upon
the remaining topics in the Speech, and 1 am happy to think
that at present there seems no likelihood of any interruption
to the unanimity with which we shall agree to the Address;
and I sincerely say it will give me the greatest pleasure to
find the proceedings of Parliament during the remainder
of the session as cordial and unanimous as they have been
upon this its first evening. (Hear, hear.)

Earl GRANVILLE—I thank the noble earl for his
candid and patriotic speech. No one could have expected
ctherwise from the warm and firm loyalty of the noble earl,
who expresses the real feeling of this country, that when-
ever the national honour or the national interests are con-
?trued party spirit should be immediately discarded. (Hear,
hear-) With respect to the Minutes of Council to which
the noble earl has referred, it is, no doubt, desirable that
thee subject should be fully considered in Parliament, and
ietarislth desire of the Government to give Parliament the
of discussing it. I think it would be
convent'
propose in qi)ethrtatitilitsYhould state on Thursday next what we
respect to those minutes, and what modifications
we are prepared to make to meet some objections whichn-
pear to possess weight. I don't think I need go into the
question of Mexico at present, as it would be better to defer
subject
discussion upon that until your lordships have read
the papers. With regard to the late event which had ex-
cited so much interest in
til
public mind—the American
question—l think the
y.
Taehoof this evening's debate has
been highly Y• The lord who moved the
be
Address, in a speech which has been justly characterized as
singularly eloquent, and which points him out as belonging
to a family distinguished in the ontiett
of-this country,
justified the conduct of the CT werata
noble friend who spoke afterwards, in a tone of of did also my
calm judo_
ran. a i to
talent, which gives promise that he will worthily
an ornament orthiloy fellow in
the steps of his noble father, who has been
the British Parliament during a space of 50 year
I think, afford singular gratification to my noble friend rnust,
the head of the Government and h's colleagues to find that
they have conducted this affair so much to the satisfaction
of Par:lament and the country. I am bound to say that
the Government have had some advantages in dealing with
this question with the United States. They never had the
slightest doubt that if they cared for the honour and in-
terests of the country they would have the confidence and
support of the country, and if they had that confidence and
support they knew the strength, physical and moral, which
it would give in urging (-;ur demands in a calm and moderate
tone, such as has been admitted to have marked our proceed-
ings. In common with the majority of this country they were
determined to take no step until they were fully satisfied as
to the illegality of the measure of which they complained.
hie!Majesty's Government relied not only on the result of
their
but were researches into the legal bearings of the question,
re
_backed by the public opinion of Europe. They
were
not unconscious of the peculiar evils that must attend
a war with the 'United States. Theyregretted that any
cause of quarrel withthat eciun try should arise, particu-
larly at a moment when it was distracted by civil trouble ;
but they felt that the injury done to England was one for ,

which it would have been most injudicious, impolitic, and,
in fact, impossible, having regard even to our relations with
the United States themselves, not to hava taken the
promptest and firmest measures to obtain the I (dress that
has happily been obtained. The noble lord opposite has
given what appears to be a due 'need of pm': e to the con-
duct of the French Government in this mat er. My noble
friend behind me has also pointed out the singularly
straightforward and friendly course pursued by the Emperor
of the French towards this country ; and I may add that it
appears to me that that course was not only friendly to
this country, but likewise friendly to the Government of
the United States, giving them as it did a support under the
difficulties with which we cannot conceal from ourselves
they had to contend in dealing with a national question of
this kind, one part of the Congress, the Representative
Chamber, declaring the act done to have been a legal one,
and some American authorities asserting that, according to
their notions of international law, no wz ong whatever had
been committed. That peace has been preserved is a source
of unfeigned satisfaction to her Majesty's Government. We
have endeavoured throughout to maintain the strictest neu-
trality ; and, although circumstances may arise which may
call for a different course, yet as long as circumstances re-
main in their present position I believe the Government will
be supported by the country and by Parliament in thinking
that the only right, just, and prudent course to adopt
is not to try to meddle with questions of infinite difficulty,
complicated as they are with slavery and the constitu-
tional rights of the United States, but to hold a perfectly
neutral attitude, leaving those States for themselves
and by themselves to settle their differences, whether
by war or by peaceful means, our only hope being that that
end may come speedily and in a manner most favourable to
the interests of the United States themselves and of the
world at large. (Hear.) The loyal and admirable spirit
shown by the people of Canada and of our other North
American colonies does them great credit, and has been
most satisfactory to her Majesty's Government to witness.
The noble lord criticised not, indeed, the present Govern-
ment, but my noble friend below the gangway, upon the
course he took with respect to neutral rights at the Confe-
rence of Paris in 1856. Now, lam bound to say that the
Government of that day were in the fullest sense respon-
sible for the conduct cf my noble friend on that occasien,
because not only did they approve it, but it was after con-
stant communication with him and the most careful consi-
deration at home that they resolved—taking all the ele-
ments of that most important question into account—that
it was for the benefit of this country that the rules there
agreed upon :should be adopted. In respect to the point
mentioned as to a treaty, I quite concur with the noble earl
that that makes no difference. It is very difficult to make
international treaties bearing upon times of war, because
by the operation of war all treaties cease of themselves.
No doubt, however, that act of the Paris Conference binds
as between themselves all the countries who agreed to it—
but not those who did not join the Conference—to the ob-
servance of these rules during future wars. I think the
noble earl was not quite'right in the illustration he gave of
the effect of allowing neutral ships to carry the goods of
belligerents. If, unfortunately, the calamity of a war
with the United States befell us I have no doubt that our
first operation would be to blockade, and that in a very effi-
cient manner, all the ports of that country, thereby putting
a considerable and speedy check upon the American trade.
And so far from its being a disadvantage that any com-
merce which she carried en should be carried on in neutral
bottoms it would be quite the reverse.

The Earl of DERBY rose to explain. He had supposed
the case in which we should not enforce our rights, as
against France, but in which America, having rights which
she had not surrendered by treaty, w,uld be entitled to
enforce them.

Earl GRA.NVILLE—I can assure the noble lord that
there is no intention on the part of her Majesty's Govern-
ment to enter into any negotiation on the subject of inter-
national law as bearing upon belligerency. Ido not think
it is desirable to do that, nor is this the fitting time for it.
My lords, I have only a few words to add to what has been
so well said as to the irreparable loss we have sustained in
the death of the Princo Consort. The noble earl spoke
with peculiar authority when he told us how much that
illustrious Prince contributed to lighten the labours of the
Sovereign and to assist her in the performance of her high
functions as an eminently constitutional monarch. The
noble earl also stated the advantage it was to succeeding
Governments themselves that one who lived so near the
Throne should have been so wise, so sagacious, and so pre-
eminently gifted, and I venture to say that just in propor-
tion to their opportunities of holding communication with
the Prince will be the appreciation by those who have
filled the position of Ministers of the heavy loss which the
country has now sustained. Having myself, both officially
and unofficially, had frequent intercourse with his Royal
Highness during later years, I must say that I remember
no one person in any class of life who possessed superier at-
tainments or a greater understanding; none from whom I
personally derived so much instruction, or whose conversa-
tion led me to think with more benefit to myself on all edu-
cational and social subjects. It was a remarkable trait in
the lamented Prince's character that not only were his in-
tellectual faculties of the very highest order, not only was
his power of grasping general principles on any subject mar-
vellous, but there was that in him which is by no means
always combined with those qualities—viz., an unwearied
industry and attention in applying great principles to the
minutest details. (Hear, hear.) I may also add, what I
am sure the noble earl opposite will concur in—namely, that
his Royal Highness, although a man of strong will and
strong character, was never exceeded by any person in any
position, not only in his willingness, but in his anxiety to
hear every possible objection that could be raised to his own
views, in order that he might arrive at a really sound con-
clusion on the matter in hand. (Hear, hear.) It has been
well said that there is no sublimer sight than the spectacle
of an honest man struggling with adversity. I conceive,
my lords, that there could be no nobler, no more touching
sight than our bereaved Sovereign with her heart almost
filled with despair, at present believing that she can enjoy
no future earthly happiness, but inspired by her own sense
of what is right, inspirited by the counsels of him who is
gone, turning with a fortitude and a courage almost be-
yond a woman's strength to the performance of her duty to
her children and her country. (Hear, hear.) My lords, it is,
I believe, with feelings excited by such a spectacle that we
shall all unanimously vote this Address, and individually
and collectively give, as far as we can in our different
spheres, every assistance and support to our beloved Queen.
(Cheers.)

Lord LYTTELTON said it had been his wish to offer a I
few remarks on the revised Educational Code ; but as he
understood that that subject was to be discussed by their
lordships on an early day he would reserve his observations
upon it till that opportunity.
Earl RUSSELL, who was indistinctly heard, was under-
stood to say,—My lords, the noble earl opposite has stated
that every one who has held a high situation in her Majesty's
Government must be aware that the judicious advice
tendered to the Queen by the illustrious Prince whom we
all so deeply deplore was of the greatest advantage to the
Crown and the country. Now, I wish from my
own per-
sonal observation and experience to confirm that opinion.
I am bound to state that the opinions the Prince gave, the
temper he displayed, and the impartiality with which he
viewed subjects of State, were of great service to the Sove-
reign. I will say one thing more—and I think that those
who have watched the position of the Sovereign during the
last 20 years will agree with me—that there has been a great
change in this respect, a most beneficial change from what
prevailed in former reigns. It often happened, when the
Sovereign proceeded in opposition to certain political prin-
ciples entertained by a portion of his subjects, that favour
was given to one party, while another was decidedly pro-
scribed ; and the consequence of such distinctions, the effect
of thst.t favour shown to one party—whether it were the
Whig party at the beginning of the House of Hanover, or
whether it was the opposite patty in other reigns—was to
make one portion of the subjects of the Sovereign feel a de-
gree of bitterness and animosity which would not otherwise
have existed. Now, I happen to know from the Prince
himself the view he tcok of the duty of the Sovereign in
such a case. He stated to me, not many months ago, that
it was a common opinion that there was onl} one occasion
on which a Sovereign of this country could exercise a de-
cided power, and that was in the choice of the First Minister
of the Crown. The Prince went on to say that in his opinion
that was not an occasion on which the Sovereign could exer-
cise a control or pronounce a decision ; that when a Minister
had retired from being unable to carry on the Government
there was at all times some other party prepared to assume
the responsibilities of office, and most likely to obtain the con-
fidence of the country. But, he said, a transfer having been
made, whether the Minister was of ono party or the other,
he thought that the Sovereign ought to communicate with
him in the most confidential and unreserved manner with re-
spect to the various measures to be brought forward, the for-
tunes of the country, and the events that might happen—
that whether he belonged to one party or another the utmost
confidence should prevail between the Sovereign and the
Minister who came forward in Parliament as the ostensible
possessor of power. I do, my lords, attribute in great mea-
sure to that opinion, which the Sovereign held in common
with the Prince, the fact that there has been no feeling of
bitterness among any party in this country arising from
political exclusion, and that all pa; ties during these 20
years have united in rendering that homage to the Sove-
reign which the conduct of her Majesty has so well de-
served—(hear)—and the country still reaps the benefit of
the good counsel which the Prince Consort gave to the
Crown. (Hear, hear.) I will say but a few words with
regard to some of the other questions touched by the noble
zit On the subject of the blockade of the Southern Arne-
an ports, I think it better to postpone discussion till
your lordships have seen the
further papers which will be
produced. Let me, however,
say that the declaration f
Convention of Pa ' i
national law, which at b
alel times has said that a blockade, in
o the
rots was in strict accordance with nter-
order to be legal must
made that declaration iat :affective. (Hear.) But having
fwore.:::: say that, to be effective,
it must be kept up by
the ports blockaded. Generally
bthleeerkeadeped
scient.to prevent access to
;rfbeueftot;ryeeit must be con-
teasalung, with the excep-
tion v
prevent ttahcec efisrsat ofetwhewpeoerkter;
fessed, that although the force was
blockade has not been regularly enforced, and
auffitbeeire w
sufficient, the
instances of vessels going in and out. For my Own part, and
on the part of the Government, it is our earnest wish to be
enabled to preserve unimpaired that neutrality Which wo

have hitherto maintained. (Hear, hear.) I consider it of
of the greatest importance to do so. I cannot but think
that before many months are over it will be ascertained
whether the Northern States are able to accomplish that
task they have set themselves of reconstructing the Union
with the Southern States of America. If they are not
able to do so I am convinced it is far better that they
themselves, their Government, their Congress and people
should be persuaded of the inutility of their efforts, and be
ready to form a treaty by which the independence of the
Southern States should be acknowledged—it is far better
that this conviction should come to them from the failure of
their own efforts than from the intervention of any foreign li
Power. (Hear, hear.) If the fortune of war and the
inutility of their efforts should induce them to acknowledge
the Southern States as independent, I hope that not only
the two might proceed in amity together, but we might ex-
pect that the United States would rest satisfied that the
Powers of Europe had behaved fairly in this contest, that
they had respected the mighty Union in which liberty had
for 80 years been established, and that they had been con-
tent not to interfere pi ematurely with the conduct of that
contest. But if they should be convinced that it was by
foreign interference and force that the Southern states had
established their independence, depend on it there would be
a rankling feeling against that country that first interfered,
an enmity and bitterness we might have to deplore for
several generations. (Hear, hear.) With respect to Mexico
the three Powers are bound by the convention ; and no in-
fluence will be used to prevent the Mexicans from deciding
on their own form of Government. I am certainly not so
sanguine as some others that the Mexicans are ready to
.establish a constitutional Government, but whether they
are ready immediately to do so or not, I think it absolutely
incumbent on this country, to endeavour to obtain some re-
dress for the wrongs we have suffered. With regard, again,
to the United States, the Government were proud to reflect
that the nation had left entirely in their hands the treat-
ment of the difference which had arisen, and now it has
been adjusted I must say I believe that although on other
occasions, when questions of boundary had to be settled,
the country was most willing to yield any reasonable ad-
vantage to the United States of America, yet when our
honsur and reputation were concerned it was impossible
that any compromise should be permitted, and it was in-
cumbent on us to seek reparation, and not be satisfied till
that reparation was obtained. (Hear, hear.)

The Earl of CARNAR VON said it would be recollected
that Mr. Jefferson Davis in his Message to the Congress of
the Confederate States stated that he had laid before the
various Governments of Europe evidence to show that the
blockade had been interrupted and broken on many occa-
sions. It was very desirable that those communications,
if they had been made to her Majesty's Government,
should be included in any papers which might be presented
to their lordships.

Earl RUSSELL was understool to state that the papers
referred to by the noble lord would be laid on the table.

Lord KINGSDO WN wished to direct the attention of
their lordships for a single minute to the mode in which
the dispute with America had been settled. He did not
know whether the effect of agreeing to the Address would
be to say that the dispute had been satisfactorily settled. To
his mind it had been anything but satisfactorily settled. He
gave full credit to the Government for the course they had
pursued throughout the whole of the negotiations. All
must approve their conduct in observing a strict neutrality
in the war between the North and the South, and the
temper with which they required satisfaction when a gross
outrage had been committed on the national flag was de-
serving of every commendation. But he did not believe that
the mode in which their demand had been complied with,
as far as it had been complied with, was satisfactory to the
honour of England. (Hear.) He did not hesitate to say that
if the despatch of Mr. Seward, which accompanied the sur-
render of Messrs. Slidell and Mason, had been acquiesced
in by our Government, England would have stood before
Europe even in a worse position than she would have occu-
pied if the prisoners had not been given up at all. Not a
single word of apology could be found in the despatch of
Mr. Seward ; on the contrary, Mr. Seward distinctly de-
clared that the capture of Messrs. Slidell and Mason was
thoroughly justified by law and practice, and he added that,
whether justified or not, whether right or wrong, if it had
been for the interest of the American Government to de •
tain the prisoners they would have kept them in defiance
of England. (Hear, hear.) It must be admitted that the
position of our Government was a difficult one, but the
surrender of Messrs. Slidell and Mason having been un-
attended by an apology for the outrage committed on our
flag, or by the slightest compensation to the victims
themselves, he was not prepared to say that the settle-
ment had been satisfactory. He gave his full adhesion
to the principles laid down by the law officers of the Crown,
and he congratulated the Government upon having as Soli-
citor- General a gentleman whose opinion was entitled to all
the weight and authority which could belong to great abi-
lities, profound knowledge, and high personal character;
but it was deeply to be regretted that those doctrines should
have been scouted and repudiated by Mr. Seward on the
part of the American Cabinet. (Hear.) The noble and
learned lord concluded by stating that, having been for
nearly 20 years closely associated with the late Prince Con-
sort in the management of important business, he could
conscientiously declare that no man ever showed greater
' aptitude for dealing with affairs, or a more anxious desire to
promote the interests entrusted to his charge. (Hear, hear.)
The Address wasthen agreed to.
Earl RUSSELL laid on the table the papers referred to
in the Queen's Speech, and
Their lordships adjourned at 10 minutes past 8 o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS—YESTERDAY. -
The house resumed at a quarter to 4 o'clock.
NEW MEMBERS.

The following members took the oaths and their seats :
—Mr. C. Turner, as third member for South Lancashire ;
Mr. Laird for Birkenhead ; Mr. Cox, for Finsbury; Col.
Fane, for Oxfordshire ; Mr Potter, for Carlisle; Mr Sealey,
for Lincoln; Sir H. Bruce, for Coleraine; Mr. Morrison,
for Plymouth ; Sir It. Clifton, for Nottingham ; Sir P.
Burrell, for New Shoreham; and Mr. Vernon, for East
Worcester.