The Sun.
London, England, 1862-02-25 00:00:00

THIS DAPS SHIPPING.

_wind this day at noon—East ;
LONDON, Feb. 25.
moderate breeze, an
24. d csloallueYd•_spirit of the Age, for Mau-
BRISTOL; Fe
ritius wiled—Durnao and Lady Seal—both
HULL, Feb. 24.—
for Greenland.
CARDIFF, Feb. 23.—Sailed—Cameron, for Havannah.

(BY ELECTRIC TELEGRAPH.)
SOUTHAMPTON, Tuesday Morning.
Arrived—Hammonia, steamer, from Hamburg; Courier,
steamer, from Havre,
Sailed—George, for Llanelly ; Alliance, steamer, for
Havre; Dispatch, steamer, for Jersey.
(BY SUBMARINE AND MAGNETIC TELEGRAPH.)
GRAVESEND, Tuesday Morning.
Sailed—Polonaise, for Sydney ; Evangeline, for Port
Natal; Caravan, for New Yorks.

DEAL, Tuesday Morning.
No arrivals,
Sailed—Weymouth, for Hongkong.

IIIPERIAL PARLIAMENT

_ .
I HOUSE OF COMMONS—YESTERDAY.
, . THE NAVY ESTIMATES.
The SPEAKER then left the chair, and the house wen
into Committee of Supply.
Lord C. PAGET rose to move the Navy Estimates for
the year. He said,—Before I lay these estimates before the
house, I must briefly notice the allusions of my two hon.
friends to the strength of the French navy. lam very
sorry to have to do so ; we have often had discussions on
this subject, and I am afraid they have often led to some ill-
feeling on the other side of the water. I must say I think
it undesirable at the present time to enter into this topic,
more particularly as the public in this country has been
convinced that the French Emperor has acted most hon •
ourably towards us. (Hear.) Under these circumstances, it
would be much more pleasing to me to pass over this sub-
ject altogether, and confine my observations exclusively to
our own affairs. But the hon. gentlemen seem to doubt the
accuracy of the information of the Government; they seem
to doubt whether the Government lets not been deceived.
But I am bound to tell the hon. member for Sunderland
and the hon. member for Montrose that every word the noble
lord (Lord Palmerston) said last year with regard to the
naval force of France is true; that every one of the iron
ships mentioned exists. The Magenta and the Solferino
are both afloat. I can give the names of the others if the
committee desire it. (No, no.) It is true they are not all
in commission, but they are afloat, and ready to proceed t•
sea directly. I am perfectly ready to admit that we believe
the preparations that have been going on in the French
dockyards are not at this moment so great as they were. But
do not let anybody deceive themselves, or suppose that the
French do not intend to add to their navy. We know that
in France every lover of his country is desirous of having
a larger navy ; and I can assure the hon. gentleman, with-
out going further into details, that the force that I enume-
rated to the house all exists, and is all in a state of pro-
gress. However, I pass over this subject, at least for the
present; and will now address myself to the estimates I
have to lay before the committee. The total amount of the
estimates for the Navy for the year 1862-3 is £11,794,305.
The amount of the same Estimates for the year 1861-2, in-
cluding the £364,388 voted a few days ago for an excess of
expenditure to the 31st of March next, was £12,640,588.
The consequent net decrease on the next year, as compared
with the present, is £846,283. The dect ease is caused chiefly
by the reduction under the heads of the purchase of naval
stores for building and repairing ships and the purchase of
steam machinery. There is another vote on which there is
a reduction—the vote which refers to the transport of the
army. On that vote there will be a considerable reduction,
and here let me say that in that vote is included a sum of
£42,000 for the paying off of the transports which have
lately been employed in the North American expedition. I
think I may truly state that when that £42,000 is paid the
whole expense incurred for that expedition, as far as the
Admiralty is concerned, will have been completed. There
will be no more to pay off. (Hear.) Upon some of the other
votes there is an increase. There is a considerable increase
on the vote for the Naval Reserve, and when I come to ex-
plain it I am sure the house will be glad to agree to that
increase, because it denotes that we are gradually bringing
together a most valuable reserve. (Hear.) There is also
an increase on the vote for artificers, which is of no great
importance. It is in consequence of our having decided
that it was absolutely necessary that we should take on a
considerable number of hired men with a view to repairing
the ships employed in the China war, of which a great many
have returned home. Their repairs are urgently necessary,
and the Government therefore determined that there should
be a slight increase in this vote. Before I proceed to
state:the number of men we propose to take, let me ask
hon. gentlemen who study this Estimate to remark that
though there appears on the face of the estimate a decrease
of no less than 9,000 men, yet that apparent decrease is
simply in consequence of the Admiralty having thought it
better this year to shovedistinctly the whole number et* boys
voted. In previous years the boys have been merged in the
seamen, the only boys shown were the 2,000 under training.
This year the men and boys employed are shown separately.
The actual diminution of men is 2,000 seamen and 200 men
of the Coastguard. That is to say, for 1862-3 we propose to
take a force of 76,000 men, against 78,200 for the past year.
The proportion of boys remains exactly the same. I should
inform the house that this reduction has already been
partially effected. At page 10 of the Estimates will be
found the number of men borne on the books in each month;
and it will be seen that, of the whole reduction of 2,000, we
have not now above 1,000 to reduce. The decrease will be
entirely gradual. There will be no breaking of faith with
the seamen. (Hear, hear.) As the ships come home and.
the men are paid off, all who desire to enter for continuous
service, having good characters, will be permitted to do so;
and the only reduction will be by casualties, so to speak.
An hon. gentleman desired that I should state how the
continuous service was working. lam very glad to say
that it is working satisfactorily. Last year I told the com-
mittee that one-half of the seamen were continuous service
men. This year lam happy to be able to state that nearly
two-thirds are continuous service men. (Hear.) I pro-
pose now to follow the time-honoured custom of giving to
the house some account of the state and condition of the
navy. First of all as to our force afloat. We propose to
maintain during the coming year at home two line-of-battle
ships, two iron-cased frigates, two frigates and corvettes,
and four sloops, making a tot il of 10 ships in the Channel
fleet. In the Mediterranean we propose to maintain nine
line-of-battle ships, foul corvettes, and 15 sloops, making a
total of 28 vessels. On the American station we propose to
maintain eight line••of-battle-ships—a number which has
already been decreased by one by the lamentable loss of a,
very fine vessel. The only consolation we can offer to our-
selves is that there were no lives lost. (Hear.) She was lost
upon a wild, broken coast, and it was a mercy that her
crew were not lost also. We have also on that station
10 frigates and corvettes and 13 sloops, making a total
of 31 vessels. On distant stations we have 22 frigates
and corvettes and 58 sloops, making a total of 80 vessels.
The total force afloat, therefore, during the coming year
will be 19 line-of-battle ships, two iron-cased frigates, 90
sloops, 38 frigates and corvettes, makings total of 149 ships.
That is a general view of the intentions of the Government
during the coming year, but I must also say that the Ad-
miralty are very strongly of opinion that it is advisable, in
some cases at all events, to substitute frigates for line-of-
battle ships. The frigates are in many respects in time of
peace better vessels. They are less costly and require less
manning; they are good for evolutions for all service pur-
poses, and, moreover, it is very desirable that we should
have these large ships in reserve rather than always at work
and necessitating repairs. I was asked the other day whe-
ther the Admiralty had not spent a great deal of money in
preparing ships for the North American expedition. The
Admiralty did prepare a great many ships, but these ships
will come in; part of them will be commissioned in lieu of
several line-of-battle ships now coming home, and the pre-
paration thus made will be of service for the future. In
addition to the ships I have enumerated, we have two coast-
guard ships and nine blockehips, making 11 coastguard
ships. Our total force afloat, therefore, will amount to some-
where
about 160 ships of all sorts. With regard to our men
we propose to maintain on the homoefsmoffitiocnerds,urni3nagrinthees,com
ing year for service at sea a force
sea-
men, and boys, including the Coastguard afloat, amounting
1
to 15,200 men. In the Mediterranean we propose to main-
min a force of 9,800 men; and on the North American and
Mexican station 12,200, including 700 Marines who tare
disembarked. That is a total of 37,200, which may be con-
sidered to be within call of home. In these days of steam
it may fairly be considered that the whole of these men,
and ships likewise, on the Mediterranean and North
American stations, are practically available for all pur-
poses of home defence should it be necessary. We have be-
sides on distant stations a force of 17,000 men, making a
total afloat of 54,200 men. That is the tctal number of men
we purpose to maintain for the fleet and the Coastguard
afloat. Although we are asking for a smaller Estimate this
year on account of the men, and although hon. gentlemen
plfaoonrlredl sei
ewra
trainednlntmeg') dr°' i—on3ai boyste h '
force at the present time, y_
et when I state what force we
opposite might feel some alarm at any diminution of ou
have available for the year_
state of preparation.
side of the house will be o
have too many men- on either
msaeuniethat timewle dhonav'te
availablethink
I don't think anybody'
f opinion that we are not in a fair
et
calling on our re
serves are the
in the home ports di
moment-Atiottl;thohue t o sea. The right. hon, mem-
posable at the
`fiet harnusive of boys in training--4,400
when I made 'a similar statement last
ng-4,400 men
-91 d n But what are these men r
' bar for
My answer is,
year, ' men we could put onboard any shlp we liked.
the men who manned those three frigates at the
that they are
These are
late crisis, and there are nearly four frigates' ships' com-
panies ready to put on board to-morrow. We hope we shall
be able to maintain a disposable force of men and boys in
the home ports of 4,400. Then we have Marines ashore
9,860, Coastguard on shore 4,000, riggers in the dockyard
—who are first-rate seamen, and ready to embark at any
moment-700, able-bodied Naval pensioners 2,700, and
able-bodied Marine pensioners I,7oo—making a total force
available, without calling on our reserves, of 23,300 men.
That is our normal state of preparation, irrespective of
everything in the shape of reserve.
Sir J. PAKINGTON—Over and above the crews of all
ships in commission ?
Lord C. PAGET—Over and above the crews of ships in
commission ; including marines on shore, but excluding Ihe
training boys, who we think will not yet be useful. We
next come to that magnificent force which has just been
created—the Royal Naval Reserve. It is impossible for nee
to say more than has been already said both in and out of
this house as to the patriotic conduct of the men composing
that force. (Hear, hear.) We may entirely rely upon those
men. Everything which has occurred tends to show that
.
they are men upon whom we may thoroughly. dgerenid
They are first-rate seamen. Every merchant bear.)give
the preference in manning his ships. (Hear)
gerir ' They arc steady men, and all that we hearis to
t these men.
advan-
tage. Last year I was thought oversanguino
owhen.
' pitted that we should raise 9,000 or 10,000ve 1 ,
0 000 and odd
To-day we have passed the 10,000, and h
aenrolled. (Hear,
I antici-
men either enrolled or just about to
isbe
quite light that we
hear.) That is very satisfactory.
butow Admiralty have been
should be proud of this result,iti is also right that we
Wof this force. If any hon.
P at great pains to ascertain
member likes to move for.the
the Coaestails he will find them very
ity will be very glad to produce
interesting, and the Admiralty
committee too long, I will state
. them ; but, not to detain the
and crews, the retaining fees of the
including the expense of train-
shortly that the cost p
while on board
hisigahbeorufitgu.Erle&
provisions
and every other , the pay
minegns,htihpesi,rtlhodeasigrintoegffiroca:nrds
iof shipping masters,
year I put it at rataheetarila,
the men increase in number the expense per
man diminishes, and therefore we may expect that when
per
but of f coarseannum.
as

.