The Sun.
London, England, 1865-05-30 00:00:00

DIVISIONS IN THE HOUSE.

The Duke of RICHMOND called attention to the man-
ner in which divisions were taken in the house, which he
contended was unsatisfactory, and necessitated the intro-
duction of a standing order which would fix the time be-
tween the question being put by the Lord Chancellor
and the members voting to two minutes, instead of leaving
the time as at present undetermined.
Earl GRANVILLE did not object to the proposition,
but thought it desirable that it should be printed and
further considered.

After a few words from Lord REDESIDALE and the Mar-
quis of BATH,
Earl STANHOPE supported the motion, and said he had
the authority of Lord Eversley for stating that the system
adopted in the other house worked remarkably well.
Lord EBURY thought some definition ought to be given
as to what was tho house and what was not the house.

The Marquis of BATH observed that a discussion took
place on that subject some years ago, and it was then un-
derstood that every peer who was in a position to hear the
question put was within the house.
The Duke of RICHMOND then withdrew his motion,
and moved that the standing order be printed and further
considered after the recess.

WAR DEPARTMENT TRAMWAY (DEVON) BILL.
This bill passed through committee.

PARSONAGE BILL.
This bill also passed through committee.

CLERICAL SUBSCRIPTION BILL.
On the order for going into committee on this bill,
The Archbishop of DUBLIN moved, as an amendment,
that it was not expedient, without the concurrence of the
convocation of the Irish provinces of the United Church,
to proceed with the bill, so far as it might set aside and
supersede the canons of those provinces, and that au address
be presented to the Queen, praying her to convene the
convocation of the Irish provinces for the purpose of
amending those canons which relate to the subscription of
the clergy and to the oaths against simony, so as toassimi la :13
the law of the Church of England and Ireland in relation
thereto, and best to securo the united action of the pro-
vinces of the Church.

Earl GRANVILLE remarked that the question of sum-
moning the convocations of Armagh and Dublin had been
carefully considered by the Government and the decision
arrived at was that it was not desirable that they should
meet. He hoped the most rev. prelate would not persist
iu his amendment.

The Archbishop of YORK said the measure introduced
many important changes, which if carried out were likely
to produce a mast salutary effect. He should therefore
give it his support, but some of the provisions would re-
quire careful consideration in committee.

The Bishop of KILLALOE was of opinion that, be-
fore a measure of this nature was decided upon, the synod
of the whole United Church ought to have been summoned
to consider it.

Lord LYTTELTON also opposed the amendment.
The Bishop of OXFORD thought it of importance that
the bill should be proceeded with, but he had no objection
to postpone that part of it which related to the Irish
clergy. The canons of the English and Irish Church were
different even on important points, and no harm would,
therefore, be done by postponing legislation in reference to
the Irish Church until another year.

The Bishop of LONDON concurred in this view of the
matte; and showed that the Archbishop of Dublin, in
asking for justice to Ireland, claimed a great deal more
than was at present conceded to England.
The Archbishop of DUBLIN said he had no desire to
impede legislation upon this subject in reference to Eng-
land, and would, therefore, strike out the first part of his
motion, retaining simply the motion for an address to the
Crown.

Subsequently the whole amendment was withdrawn,
and the bill passed through committee.
The Police Superannuation Bill, and the Pilotage Order
Confirmation Bill, were read a third time and passed.
The County Voters Registration Bill and the County of
Sussex Bill passed through committee.
Their lordships adjourned shortly before eight o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS—LAST EVENING.
The SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.

The following bills were read a third time and passed : • -
Aberdeenshire Roads ; Busby Railway ; Croesor and Port-
madoc Railway; Highbridge Markets and Gas ; Hoy-
lake Railway ; Lakcashire Union Railway ; London
and North Western Railway (additional powers, Wales);
London, Chatham, and Dove; and London and South
Western Railway Companies; Manchester and Milford
Railway, Midland Railway (New Lines, &c.) ; School for
the Indigent Blind Act Amendment ; and Sevenoaks,
Maidstone, and Tunbridge Railway.
MIDDLESEX INDUSTRIAL SCHOOLS BILL.

Mr. C. FOSTER moved that the order of the 11th of
May, that the report from the select committee on the
Middlesex Industrial Schools Bill be read, and that the bill
be discharged.
Mr. P. HENNESSY strenuously objected to such a
course. The bill was now in the hands of the house, and
contended that it was within the province of the promoters
of the measure—the Middlesex justices—to withdraw the
hill. He opposed the motion for the withdrawal, and said
that in the event of the bill being retained, he should move
its third reading on Thursday next.
Mr. BARING thought the bill contained some
r exceed-
TIT useful clauses, and thatit was desirable that it should
c_eihvee the further consideration of the house.
T motion for the withdrawal of the bill was negatived.

Mr. Nv THE CAPE COLONY.
ABNER asked the Secretary of State for the
colonies whether it was true, as stated in newspapers, that
the Governor
of the Cape Colony was pursuing a policy in
regard to the Caffres of which the responsibility has not
been assumed by the colonial Legislature ; and whether,
in the event of war it would not be difficult under
these circumstances to enforcelllpon the representative Go-
vernment of the colony its
burden of internal defence ? obligation to bear the whole
Mr. CARDWELL said he proposedgoverno that the policy re-
ferred to was that which the rhadna thought fit to
adopt with respect to the quietly disposed
not think that it was a policy likely to lead ttives. IIe did
war, but
quite the reverse. The governor in such matterso always
acted on his own responsibility. The defence of the colony
up to the present Limo had always rested on this country,
and for the present it would continue to do so.
THE RED RIVER SETTLEMENTS.
Sir E. GROGAN asked the Secretary of State for the
Colonies if any, and what, steps had been taken by the
Government, since the report of the select committee was
presented to that house, for opening up the Red River dis-
tricts and the valley of the Saskatchevan to settlement
under the Crown, and putting an end to
the exclusive privileges heretofore claimed by the
Hudson's Bay Company in these districts; and if
the claim of ownership, put forward by the Hudson's
BayilrishtiCornPany in the territory lying between Canada and
on that America, being about two-thirds of our possessions
founded ? continent, was admitted by the Government as well
Mr. CARDWELL said it had been the' desire of the

Secretary for the Colonies for years past to obtain the
settlement of the question, and various proposals had been
made to Canada. It was to be hoped that Canada might
be induced to undertake the settlement of the colony,
especially as the law officers of the Crown had given it as
their opinion that the rights of the Hudson's Bay Com-
pany were such as could not be resisted.

CONSTABULARY FORCE (IRELAND) AMEND-
MENT ACT BILL.

On the motion for going into committee on this bill,
Mr. 0. GORE moved that the measure be referred to a
select committee.

Mr. BRADY seconded the proposition.
Lord J. BROWN did not think a select committee of the
house a good tribunal to inquire into this measure. He
thought the executive Government was best fitted to deter-
mine the exact number of constables to be appointed to
each county.
Sir R PEET, hoped the house would allow him to pro-
ceed with the bill, because no practical good could result
from sending the bill to a select committee. He had made
an alteration in the measure which would enable the Lord-
Lieutenant to increase the parliamentary quota of constables
in any county that he might think necessary. He had been
asked what the object of the bill was. The object of the
measure was to prevent a repetition of certain proceed-
ings which took place in Belfast last year, which were
a disgrace to the whole country. (Hear, hear.) It was
of the utmost importance that the bill should pass.
(Hear, hear.) If July should come upon them without this
measure being the law of the land, the 165 policemen
would be found quite incompetent to preserve the peace,
and there would be a repetition of those scandalous and
disgraceful orgies that produced such lamentable results last
year.

- Sir H. CAIRNS thought it highly injudicious on the
part of the right hon. baronet to open up a debateable
subject, and he hoped no person would express his opinion.
He denied that the persons who waited on the Government
last year from Belfast with the intention of getting the
police superseded and martial law proclaimed were the
" authorities " of the town. He had no desire to impede
the measure ; on the contrary, if certain amendments,
which he thought the bill required, wore agreed to, he
should give the right hon. baronet his cordial support in
passing it through the house.
Mr. 0. GORE said as it seemed to be the desire of the
house to proceed with the consideration of the bill, he
would withdraw his motion for referring the bill to a
select committee.

The motion was then, by leave, withdrawn, and the
house went into committee on the bill.
GREENWICH HOSPITAL BILL.

Lord C. PAGET moved that the Greenwich Hospital
Bill be read a second time pro forma, in order to introduce
certain amendments, discussion to be taken on the motion
for going into committee on the bill.

Sir J. PASINGTON admitted that there were defects in
the management of the hospital which called for reform.
For example, the system of double government was very
objectionable; but the existence of such defects was no
reason why changes should be introduced that would so
materially alter the original foundation that it could no
longer be regarded as an object of national pride and ad-
miration. The right hon. baronet criticised at somelength
the provisions of the bill, and suggested various improve-
ments with a view to rendering the hospital more generally
useful and popular, and its administration more efficient
and satisfactory.

Mr. AYRTON regarded the- measure as a comprehen-
sive one that struck at the root of an evil, but he com-
plained that it did not do justice to the seamen of the
merchant service, who, he contended, were expressly in-
cluded as objects of the charity by the original charter,
and by every act of Parliament that had subsequently
passed relating to Greenwich Hospital. He hoped, when
the bill went into committee, the Government would give
the house an assurance that the unoccupied part of the
hospital should be appropriated to the use of distressed
seamen of the mercantile marine.

Mr. LIDDELL, after discussing the details of the mea-
sure, observed that if ever a sweeping reform was required
it was in the case of the administration of this hospital.
Although he might agree to the conversion of the institu-
tion into a mere infirmary with some remorse, yet he
thought that a liberal scale of out-pensions for deserving
seamen, as proposed by the bill would be regarded as a boon
that was preferable to the monotony of living in the hos-
pital.
Mr. J. J. POWELL apprehended that the meeting of
the terms of the charter was that any seaman, whether
officer or man, who was incapable of further service at sea,
was entitled to the benefit of the charity. But if it were
contemplated by the bill that pensions should be granted
out of funds originally intended for this purpose not only to
common sailors but to officers generally, he feared it would
turn out that Greenwich Hospital would share the fate of
those educational institutions which, being founded for the
sons of poor men, had in process of time been diverted from
their original objects and their benefits conferred exclu-
sively upon those for whom they were never designed.

Admiral WALCOTT advocated the claims of officers to
participate in the advantages of the institution, and strongly
objected to turning a magnificent asylum into a mere in-
firmary.
The discussion was continued by Mr. C. W. Howard,
Mr. Ingham, Mr. Childers, and Sir J. Elphinstone ; and
the bill having been read a second time, was committedpro
forma and ordered to be reprinted with amendments.
On the order for the second reading of the Colonial Go-
vernors' Retiring Pension Bill,

Mr. B. COCHRANE complained of the illiberal charac-
ter of the measure, inasmuch as no pension was to be
allowed to a colonial governor until he had served 18
years, and not even then if he had not attained the ago of
60. He suggested that a service of 12 years should be
sufficient.

Sir W. JOLLIFFE thought that gentlemen who had
passed their lives in filling these offices were entitled to be
rewarded ; but the bill was so exclusive in its nature that
Sir Francis Head, who had so eminently distinguished him-
self in Canada, would receive no advantage whatever under
its provisions.

Mr. MOOR also mentioned as one of hardship the case
of Mr. Latrobe, who, after faithfully serving the Crown as
the superintendent of a colony for a long series of years,
had been informed by the Under Secretary for the Colo-
nies, in a cold-blooded dispatch, that, not having been a
"lieutenant governor," ho would not be entitled to a pen-
sion under the bill.

Mr. ADDERLEY made a vigorous attack on the bill,
some of the provisions of which he described as wholly
indefensible. Amongst other things it would confer a pen-
sion upon the governor of the new British America Colo-
nial Confederacy, provided they retained him for 18 years,
or until he was 60 years of age. The pension, too,
was shabby in amount, and useful and distinguished
services were unrecognised, whilst a man who had misgo-
verned a colony for the stipulated period would come within
the terms of the bill.

Sir J. PAKINGTON approved of the principle of the
measure, but suggested that distinguished as well as
lengthened services ought to be rewarded, and that such
cases as that of Sir Francis Head should be treated in a
generous and liberal spirit.
Mr. CAVE approved of the bill as tending to make the
service popular, but recommended that its scope should be
enlarged.
Mr. A. MILLS supported the bill on the same ground,
and because it would make the colonial governors inde-
pendent as representatives of the mother country. A clause,
however, ought to be introduced to meet such cases as
those of Sir F. Head and Mr. Latrobe.

Mr. CARDWELL justified the proposal to reward for
long rather than distinguished services by reference to the
practice followed under the Superannuation Act. As to the
case of the British North American Confederacy, it was
impossible that one person could remain in tho office of
governor for 18 years, the rule being to serve for six years
only in each Government. The duty of conferring a pen-
sion for distinguished services was a function that belonged
exclusively to Parliament, and ought not to be intrusted to
any individual Minister. The preparation of a clause ap-
plicable to the case of Sir F. Head or Mr. Latrobe would be
attended with this difficulty, that they might not be able to
provide sufficient guards.
The bill was then read a second time.

Sir J. PAKINGTON stated that, owing to an attack of
illness, Mr. Disraeli would be unable to attend and take
part in the debate on the Roman Catholic Oaths Bill this
day. He appealed to Mr. Monsell, therefore, to postpone
the order for a future day.
Mr. MONSELL replied that ho had been in communi-
cation with Mr. Disraeli on the subject, and that as the
right hon. gentleman had not given him an assurance that
he would be prepared to propose in committee a common
form of oath to be taken by all the members of the house,
and which should contain none of the phrases that the bill
proposed to omit, he must decline compliance with his re-
quest, and proceed with the measure according to arrange-
ment. _ _

The remaining orders having been disposed of,
The house adjourned at twenty-five minutes to two
o'clock until noon this day.

WEIGHING THE WEIGHTS.—A South African
paper, Graaff-Reinet Herald, states that a wool
fai mer who came into town lately to sell his wool, having
heard that there had been no assizing of weights for four
years, went into a store and brought up the subject of
weighing people. Stepping on the platform scale he said,
" I wonder what I weigh now ?" His weight was quickly
read off ; a few similar trials were made, and away ho went
to the next store, and so on to others. When he came back
he knew who had the lightest weights, and there he wont
with his wool.

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