The Sun.
London, England, 1862-10-31 00:00:00

THE ,SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, OCTOBER 31, 1862.

ZORD C. PAGE? AND GENERAL SIR
SMITH, AT CHATHAM.

CHATHAM, TatitSDAY.

Last night Lord C. Paget, M.P., the Secretary to
the Admiralty, and Lieut.-General Sir F. Smith, •
M.P., together with some other distinguished visi-
tors, the principal officers of the army and navy, I
and leading inhabitants of this town, were enter-
tained at a public dinner given by Mr. Jas. Budden,
the high constable, at the close of his year of office.
The banquet took place at the Sun Hotel, where
covers were laid for 200 guests.
The CHAIRMAN, after giving the customary loyal
toasts, proposed The Army, Navy, and Volun-
teers," and in doing so highly eulogised the deeds •
of the two services, and he had no doubt that when- I
ever occasion required it the volunteers would not
he backward in upholding the honour and consti-
tution of England. (Cheers.)
Lord CLARENCE PAGET, in rising to return
thanks for the navy, was received with loud cheers.
Re said he begged to return them his sincere and (
heartfelt thanks for the honour they had conferred
on the navy, and also for coupling his name
with the toast of prosperity to that branch of
the service to which it was his honour to be-
long. The chairman had alluded, in proposing
the health of the Queen, to the heavy affliction
which had befallen her Majesty. (Hear, hear.) The
year just passed had, indeed, been a year of mourn-
ing for every man, woman, and child in the country,
It would not become him to allude further to that
event, and he would, therefore, content himself
with deploring—as every one in England did—the
great loss which her Majesty had sustained. Turn-
ing, however, to a much more congenial and cheer.
ing subject—that of the state of our army, navy,
and volunteers—he would not attempt to make any
comparison between the three services, being per.
suaded of this, that whether it was the army, the
navy, or the volunteers, the members of each asked
no better favour than to be called on to serve.
Before making any observation with regard to that
'branch of the service to which it was his great
honour to belong he must commence by apologising
for being at Chatham at all. (Laughter.) No doubt
they were aware he had the honour to represent
another part of their county, the different constitu-
encies of which, he might remark, were like fami-
lies—somewhat jealous of each other. (Laughter.)
Such being the case, it was possible that his family
at the other end of the country might ask, " Why
does our member go to Chatham to make a speech ;
why does he not rather come here 9" In that case
he thought they would have an incident similar to
to that which, they would recollect, occurred some-
what early in the evening, and a voice would be
heard to exclaim, " Paget you are wanted." (Great
laughter.) The excuse, however, that he must make
to his constituents must be that there were many
important reasons why an individual connected
as he was with the Admiralty should entertain a
regard for Chatham, and therefore that it was his
duty to accept the invitation given him by their
high constable to be present at that dinner. (Ap-
plause.) Chatham, he had no hesitation in saying,
-was about to become one of the most important of
their naval stations, and therefore he felt it his
duty to pay his respects to the inhabitants of that
town. At Chatham they were about to possess the
most magnificent arsenal that England, or in fact,
all the world together ever possessed. (Cheers.)
The basin accommodation at Chatham, for provid-
ing which the greatest anxiety had been expressed
by the House of Commons, would, after the whole
of the works in progress were completed, surpass
'the whole of the boasted accommodation of France
put together. (Loud cheers.) Chatham had been
selected by the Admiralty for the honour of con-
structing one of their iron ships, and most excel-
lently had Chatham performed the task. (Cheers.)
It was, therefore, with no inconsiderable amount of
pleasure that he had the privilege of making the
acquaintance of the inhabitants of the town. With
regard to the present state and condition of their
naval forces, it was with the utmost pleasure and
gratification he could assure them that the British
navy was never in a more satisfactory condition
than it was at the present moment. (Loud cheer-
ing.) He had no intention of making that asser-
tion in a mere boastful spirit, but he made it after
full deliberation. Looking, then, at the improved
feeling throughout the service, at the increased
facilities for manning the navy, and also at the ex-
cellent feeling which now pervaded the officers and
men of the merchant service, he was justified in
saying that if the day came—and God forbid that
it should come—we were never in a better position
to enter into war, and there was never a time when
the navy of England was in a more efficient state.
(Loud applause.) It was impossible for him to re-
frain alluding, on that occasion, to the large body of
naval volunteers. The most distinguished officers
In the merchant service had formerly entertained
almost a horror of the navy, but at this moment
they had a magnificent naval reserve of seamen,
and the choice of the best officers in the merchant
serviee. (Cheers.) In order to make themselves
thoroughly efficient in their gun drill the officers
of the reserve were working day by day, and he
therefore felt justified in saying that if at any time
England should be called upon to defend her liber-
ties the navy, thank God, would be supported by a
powerful reserve. (Cheers.) In the several dis-
cussions which had taken place in the House of
Commons respecting the construction of iron ships,
it was asserted that some other countries had sur-
passed us in that description of vessel. Thanks,
however, to the great exertions made in our dock-
yards, our iron-cased fleet was in such a position as
to render us safe from any attack, and before next
spring England would assume her proper place in
that respect. (Cheers.) He thought it only right
that the pub!ic should be assured of the highly satis-
factory state in which everything connected with
the naval department was. On the part of the
officers of the navy he begged to return them his
most sincere thanks. (Cheers.)
Lieut. General Sir F. SMITH said he felt some
difficulty in acknowledged the toast on behalf of the
army, and in following the noble lord, whose elo-
quenee had so charmed them that evening. The 1
noble and gallant lord had not said one word too
much in favour of maintaining the navy of England
in its most efficient state, for he (the gallant general)
had always maintained that England's first line
of defence was her navy, and woe betide that
government which allowed the navy to fall below
that of any other nation. (Hear, hear.) Hu had
often voted with his gallant friend for main-
taining the efficiency of the navy and for car-
rying out those reforms that were needed, and
as long as he persevered in that course he
should continue to do so. (Hear, hear.) From
what they had heard that evening there could be
no doubt that Chatham was about to become a
great naval arsenal, the scheme now intended to be
carried out having been urged upon the attention
of the House of Commons by him many years ago.
(Annlause). They arq also indcbted to his noble
trietd.
nod,for the creation of the naval reserve force,
although
hisgallant friend was too modest to
tetmeitr,,tdirtekth, e could not refrain from giving him
Eery° force, r the formation of that important re-
be had no h„(itlae."B.) With regard to the army,
a better positier,'"• in saying that it was never in
bridge and the se,:flianks to the Duke of Cam-
dier was now bette:tearY of State for War, the sol-
,nd in the field, eared for, both in the barrack
addition to the regalarv" he was before. In
army
espots.tx)
of volunteers Sod the militia,
they also had a force
bered 160,000 men. which num-
teers cotnposing this (chrgreat for If
the volun-
eudea vo ur to learn the duties
vvotould only
lie saw no reason to fear that F, soldiers
Would ever
be invaded, or if invaded, that the ,post "'CI Over
riry would he driven into the sea. (Cheers.) it
vra.: to this reeeon he had never advocate.,
shut-
ting up our troops in forts, although there was one
place which he had al ways insisted on should be
strongly fortified, and that was Chatham. (Cheers.)
For years he had advocated the importance of
making Chatham a central arsenal, and he was
glad to find that his views were likely to be adopted.
At Chatham they had the necessary space' for the
formation of the best basins but no-
thing had been done until his nobie
in the world;
d
gallant
friend, had taken the matter up. (Cheers.) Of alt

,
the counties in En gland Kent was the one most
important for an enemy to take, became there
would be found the most cherrie% to pluck.
There they had Chatham, Sheerness, Wool-
wich, and Deptford dockyards, at d Wool-
wich Arsenal, although the latter wa, totally un-
fitted for an arsenal. The volunteers of Kent should,
therefore, render themselves as efficient as it was
possible for them to be made, Kent being so admi-
rably adapted for defence, there being the garrisons
of Chatham, Sheerness, and Dover to fall back upon.
Volunteers, however, must make themselves as per-
fect as possible, remembering that from their intel-
ligence they required but one-tenth of the training
of the common soldier. They must not think they
were not regarded, for his gallant friend
them of the great influence the force ie
hadcould
already t e tell
had upon Europe. (Cheers.) The British
army
wherever
hadit
won for itself golden opinions, and
might yet be employed there they might depend
upon it it would do its duty. They must not
imagine that because they heard of large armies
they were efficient. In America they found the
army numbering 700,000 men, but yet they
failed to discover any remarkable strategy or
ability. (Hear.) That army had yet to learn the
art of strategy, which could only be acquired by
time. Armies could not be got together on the spur
of the moment; their skill and organisation must be
a work of time. The Duke of Wellington, at the
termination of the war in which he was engaged,
boasted that he had 45,000 efficient troops, and with
that number he would march from one end of
Europe to the other. (Hear, hear.) He believed
the British army was now in an equally efficient
state, and that if required they could do so in de-
fiance of all opposition. (Loud cheers.)

Captain Magnus briefly returned thanks on behalf
of the volunteers, expressing the obligation that
force was under to the regular forces.
After some further toasts the proceedings ter-
minated.

THE NATIONAL= OF THE CHURCH
OF ENGLAND.

THE RIGHT HON. B. DISRAELI,

HIGH WYCOMBE, THURSDAY.

The annual meeting of the Society for Augment-
ing Small Benefices in the diocese of Oxford was
held this afternoon, the Bishop of Oxford in the
chair. There were present the Right Hon. B. Dis-
raeli, M.P., the Right Hon. S. H. Walpole, M.P.,
Mr. Hubbard, M.P., the High Sheriff, Sir C. Young,
Archdeacon Bickersteth, the Rev. C. Lloyd, Rev.
T. Watts (rural dean), Mr. W. Lowndes, &c.
The Right Rev. CHAIRMAN opened the proceed-
ings by explaining the nature and objects of the
society, stating that in the diocese there were 72
livings with incomes under £lOO a-year, 85 livings
with incomes under £l5O, and 66 livings with in-
comes under £2OO. This out of 613 benefices alto-
gether showed a very large proportion of poverty as
set against, generally speaking, a great moderation
of endowment in the other parishes. An adequate
provision could not be made for the poor livings by
means of a division of the existing endowments. As
far as this object could be accomplished it was ac-
complished by parliamentary enactment, under
which a common fund was divided•to meet the case
of the most necessitous districts, grants from which
were made in proportion to the sums raised by local
contribution.
Archdeacon BICKERSTETH moved the first resolu-
tion—" That the poverty of a large number of the
livings in this diocese is a subject which demands
the careful consideration of all those who are inte-
rested in the welfare of the National Church," and
in so doing entered into a variety of details for the
purpose of showing the necessity for increased ex-
tions on behalf of the society.
The Right Hon. B. DIsRAELI, in seconding the
resolution, after some introductory remarks, pro-
ceeded to say—But it is not at all surprising that
the Church of England should be a poor Church.
Although in the aggregate its income may be
very considerable, still if yon look to its distribu-
tion, as is now well known, you will perceive that
it offers to the great body of the clergy a very
small stipend each. (Hear, hear.) It is not at all
surprising that the Church of England should not
be a rich Church, because the Church of England
has been despoiled. (Hear, hear.) That is not a
fate peculiar to the Church of England; other
1 Churches have been despoiled. But there is this
peculiarity with regard to the Church of England in
this matter, that in other countries when the pro-
perty of the Church has been taken from it,
whether the plea was right or whether it was
wrong—and I am not now, of course, entering into
any controversy on the subject—but in other coon-
tries, when the church has been deprived of its pro-
perty by the State, that property has at least been
applied to public and national purposes. That has
not been so in the case of the Church of England.
The property of the Church of England has been
granted by despots and tyrants to their minions,
and has been in this country, fortunately now
many centuries ago, the foundation of the estab-
lishment of powerful, families, which, by virtue of
the possession of that property, and not from any
public services, have had for generations a great
portion of the Government of this country under
its power and its patronage. (Hear.) Well, I find in
these circumstances of aggravation in the case of the
spoliation of the Church in this country, compared
with the spoliation of Churches in other countries,
circumstances of consolation and of hope, because we
live in an age when communities are governed by
the influence of opinion, and when individuals
are regulated in their conduct to a great degree
by the influenee of conscience ; and I cannot for a
moment believe that the estimable descendants of
these original appropriators of Church property,
when they learn—and in a country of free discus-
sion like the present they must all of them be well
informed upon the subject—when they know that
men of the highest education are, from a sense of
duty and devotion, dedicating their lives to the
comforting of the people, and receiving for their
labour stipends which even the meanest would
refuse. (Hear.) I cannot but believe that the
1 estimable descendants of the original proprie-
tors, in the satiety of their splendour, must feel an
impulse that will make them apply a portion of
that property which they ages ago unjustly obtained
to purposes of a character which society will recog-
nise, and by its approbation reward. (Hear, hear.)
The society of this country is established upon the
principle of civil and religious liberty, and in my
opinion it is impossible, and certainly it is not de-
sirable, to resist the complete development of that
principle. (Hear.) At the same time you have a
Church established by law—that is to say, a national
Church—and there is an apparent inconsistency in
the principle which yeu have adopted as the foun-
dation of your social system and the existence of
that Established Church, because the principle of
civil and religious liberty has placed legislative
power in the hands of great bodies of the people
who are not in communion with that Church, and
they have used that power during the last 25 years,
with caution at first, with great deliberation at first,
but as time advanced with greater boldness and
greater energy, until within the last few years they
have made an avowed attack upon that Church,
conducted with great ability and great courage.
(Hear.) That being the case, you have what has
occurred within the last quarter of a century. You
have an apparent want of sympathy between that
which by our constitution is the national Church and
a7great body of the nation, and that is a state of af-
fairs which is no doubt to he highly deprecated.
Twenty years ago, when the inconvenience was first
very generally felt, ardent Churchmen, sincere
Churchmen, thought they had found a solution of
this difficulty by terminating the connection between
Church and state, They said " Terminate the
union between Church and State, as the whole of
tpli,e nation is no longer in communion with the
' / gestion
\
t. laZetil, and you will put an end to the dissatisfac-
' that
Prevails;" .
Partially and to a considerable degree
antoliat no doubt is a very plausible sug-
. will be found oranuuls.
, ()us and
able
that has been accepted by ingenu-
But, if it is looked into it
pated by the individuals who
1 results very diff?„tehat will lead, in my opinion, to
these which are antici-
unswatho_ are favourable to it,
and prove I think
to the country. (Hear.) BeLautriyt
cattnudnotinbjeursiuopus_

posed fora moment that the civil power in this age
will tolerate an imperium in imperio, and that it
will allow a great corporation in possession of large
property—for the property is considerable, although
if distributed it may not offer adequate compensa-
tion to those who are labouring in its service—the
civil power in this age will not permit a great cor-
poration in possession of this vast property to act in
independence of the State. (Cheers.) And therefore
there is no concealing it from ourselves, that it
would soon end in further spoliation, and the Church
would be left without the endowment and status
which it at present possesses. (Hear.) The prin-
ciples of Divine truth, I admit, do not depend upon
property, but the human machinery by which the
circulation of the principles of Divine truth is
effected depends upon property for its organisation ;
and no one can deny for a moment that the Church,
deprived of the means by which the Divine instruc-
tion which it is its duty to afford to the people is
secured—the Church deprived of these means would
of course lose immensely in its efficiency. But in
the case of the Church of England it is not merely
a question of the loss of its property, but it is also a
question of the peculiar character of that property,
because the property of the Church of England is
territorial property—it is a property so distributed
throughout the country that it makes it from the
very nature of its tenure a National Church ; and
the power of the Church of England does not de-
pend merely on the amount of the property which
it possesses, but in a great degree on the kind and
character of that properly. (Hear.) Then I say the
result will be that, the Church of England deprived
of its status would become merely an episcopal sect
in this country, and in time in this country it is not
improbable that it might hecome an insignificant
one. But that is not perhaps the whole of the great
evil that might arise from the dissolution of the
connection between the Church and the State ; be-
eanse, in the present age, the art of government
becomes every day more difficult, and no Go-
vernment will allow a principle so powerful as
the religious principle to be divorced from the
influence by which it regulates the affairs of a
country. (Hear, hear.) Then what would happen?
Why it is very obvious what would happen. The
State of England would take care, after the Church
was spoiled, to enlist in its service what are called
the ministers of all religions. The ministers of all
religions would be salaried by the State, and the
consequence of the dissolution of the alliance be-
tween Church and State would be equally disastrous
to the Churchman and the Nonconformist. (Hear.)
It would place the ministers of all spiritual influences
under the control and the influence of the civil
power; and in this country it would effect in reality
a revolution in the national character. (Hear,
hear.) It would, in my opinion, even have an in-
jurious effect upon the liberties of the country ; and
I cannot believe that after the thought and discus-
sion that have been devoted to the subject for the
last 20 years, there can be amongst those who
have well-considered the subject any great difference
of opinion ; but that all men—l would say the
Churchman, the Dissenter, the philosopher, would
all shrink from a solution of the difficulty which we
feel with regard to the present state of the Church
—a solution effected by means so injurious as the one
to which I have referred. (Hear, hear.) Well, then,
what would you do ? I maintain that you have only
one alternative—that if you do not favour a dis-
solution between Church and State, you must as-
sert the nationality of the Church of England.
(Hear.) I know it will be said, " Assert the na-
tionality of the Church in a nation where there are
millions not in communion with that Church !"
The right hon. gentleman proceeded to consider this
question at some length, and contended that many
not now in communion with the Church were not
adverse to the Church, and might be brought within
its pale, and the nationality of the Church proved and
asserted. He looked, as a means to this end, to the
influence of the Church in education, to a moderate
and well considered extension of the episcopacy, to
a complete development of the lay element in the
administration of the non-spiritual affairs of the
Church, and the maintenance of the parochial sys-
tem. Unfortunately in this country, continued the
right hon. gentleman, so far as the church is con-
cerned, great errors exist on the subject of parochial
constitution. In consequence of the great changes
that have taken place of late years with regard to
parochial administration, there is an idea too gene-
ral that the parochial constitution has been sub-
verted ; but as far as the Church is concerned, the
parochial constitution is complete and inviolate,and
the right of visiting both by parishioners and the
parish priest remains intact, and which properly
acted upon is a source of immense and increasing in-
fluence, especially in those great towns of which we
hear so much, and where that right is not even in
existence. The fifth means by which I think the na-
tionality of the Church may be asserted brings me
clearly to the resolution, I mention it last, not be-
cause I think it inferior to any of the others. You
must render the clergy more efficient. Whether in
the great towns you increase that staff of curates,
which perhaps is more advantageous than building
churches without making preparations for their
maintenance, still less for their endowment, or
whether you avail yourself of those means which
other societies in the diocese afford for the in-
crease of spiritual assistance, or whether, lastly
and chiefly, you take the great subject in hand
which has brought us together to-day, and make an
effort throughout the country for putting an end
to those low stipends which are almost in mockery
now appended to the discharge of laborious paro-
chial duty. (Hear.) These are five great practical
means by which the nationality of the Church can
be asserted. But they are only means and machi-
nery, and they must be inspired by that spirit of
devotion which only brings success, and which only
deserves success. But in the present state of the
country I think that a great corporation like the
Church of England may look forward, by means of
machinery such as I have mentioned under these
five heads, to great, triumphant, and final success.
(Cheers.) These five measures, with the exception
of the increase of the episcopate, can be adopted
without any appeal to the nation. We must not
shut our eyes to the fact that the time has gone by
when we could ask for new powers and privileges
from Parliament to establish the position of the
church. (Hear.) I myself do not undervalue the
public recognition of the Church by the legislature
of the country. I think its importance cannot be
overstated. I believe that in its action it gives an
authority in many minds which, without that posi-
tion, it would not possess or exercise. It is because
I believe a public recognition of the nationality of
the Church by the Constitution is of that great
value, that I and those who have acted with me re-
sisted all the attempts which have been made dur-
ing the last few years in Parliament, and which
have aimed at damaging the public status of the
Church. We have done that because we believe
that the public status of the Church gives it an im-
mense advantage when the opportunity occurs of
asserting its nationality. If we had not believed
that to be the consequence of its position,we should
have declined the contest for privileges which
might otherwise be considered merely obsolete,
for a
venture
elic status
to
hopethattbat
tbi
this
was e barren.eting I
y be
awouldnd
of some use—that an effort
will be made in this
diocese, and that it
will not be confined to this
diocese. I hope we shall no longer be appalled
and paralysed by indefinite estimates of the hos-
tility and obstacles that we have to encounter.
I hope, above all, that the faint-hearted among
our brethren who, of late years, seem to be
only
considering how they can decorously relinquish a
post of great responsibility, will learn that the
wisest course with respect to the Church of Eng-
land, as with regard to all other eases in which
great duties are involved, is to he courageous and
to attempt to perform our duty, and then I am con-
fident that the Church of England will show to the
world that it has powers of renovation that have
not been suspected by some. (Cheers.) For my own
part, I uphold it not merely because it is the sanctuary
of Divine truth, but because I verily believe it is
our best security for that civil and religious liberty
of which we hear so much, and which :we are told
is opposed to its institution. (Loud cheers.)
Tho resolution was then agreed to, and addresses
in support of the institution were delivered by Mr.
Walpole, Mr, truhbard. and other gentlemen'

IHE NAVY.

The Grand Puke of Saxe-Coburg and suite paid a
visit to Chatham Dockyard on Wednesday, and in-
spected the various departments connected with that
establishment. After spending a short time in the
inspection of a variety of moulds and drawings in
the office of Mr. Lang, master shipbuilder, the dis-
tinguished visitors, accompanied by Capt. Fanshawe
and the other officials, made the tour of the dock-
yard, visiting in the first instance the iron frigate
Achilles, in the examination of the works of which
they spent some time. They next proceeded to No.
3 dock, occupied by the iron-cased frigate Royal
Oak, over which they were conducted, and the in-
terior of which was very minutely inspected, his
Serene Highness descending into the engine-room
and examining the machinery. Leaving the Royal
Oak the party was conducted to the end of the yard,
where the Duke and attendants witnessed the ope-
rations connected with the preparation of the slabs
of iron for forming the armour-plates for the Royal
Oak. Before quitting the dockyard, the visitors
went over the factory, and examined the Salamis
paddlewheel steamer, building on the first slip.
The Resistance, 16, iron screw ram, Capt. Cham-
berlain, went into Portsmouth harbour on Wednes-
day, and was hauled alongside the dockyard, in
order to have certain repairs made good to her iron
capstan, damaged on weighing anchor at Spithead.

The Revenge, Capt. C. Fellowes, bearing the flag
of Rear-Admiral Smart, and the Defence, Capt.
Phillimore, got up steam yesterday afternoon at
Spithead, in obedience to a signal from the Victory
flagship, and were expected to proceed direct to
Gibraltar yesterday evening or early this morning.

Admiral Kingcome has arrived at Portsmouth
Dockyard, and is expected to hoist his flag on board
the Sutlej, Capt. M. Connolly, on Monday or Tues-
day, for the Pacific, to relieve the Bacchante, flag-
ship of Rear-Admiral Sir Thos. Maitland.

Orders were yesterday received at Chatham for
70 non-commissioned officers and men of the 83d
Regiment to proceed from the garrison to join head-
quarters of that regiment.

CENTRAL CRIMINAL COURT,—Oct. 30,

OLD COURT.
(Before the Lord Chief Baron.)
THE MURDER IN THE CITY.
(Continued from the Sun of yesterday.)

Samuel Gardner, aged 38, described as a sweep,
and Elizabeth Humbler, 19, a married woman,
were jointly charged upon an indictment, and also
by the coroner's inquisition, with the wilful murder
of Elizabeth Gardner, the wife of the first men-
tioned prisoner.
Elizabeth Humbler was then brought from the
gaol and examined as a witness. She said—l am
the wife of John Humbler, and I am 19 years old.
I have known the prisoner since I was eleven years
of age, and I used to live in his house with the de-
ceased. There was an intimacy between me and
the prisoner of an improper kind ever since I was
15 years old. My mother took me away from the
prisoner's house, and 12 months ago I married my
present husband, and I left my husband and went
again to live in the prisoner's house. This was
about three mouths before this occurrence happened.
Mrs. Gardner was agreeable to my going to live
there. I acted as servant, and did all that there
was to do. While I was living in the house
on this second occasion I renewed my intimacy
with the prisoner. I did not know that I was
going to leave on the Monday the affair happened
till the prisoner told me so after the murder, and
he had accused me of it. On the Sunday before
the murder I went to bed at seven o'clock at
night, and wished the deceased good night. I got
up on the following morning at half past seven
o'clock, and between those hours I never left my
bedroom. I went to a room on the ground floor
to light the fire, but I had only one Lucifer match,
and it did not seem to catch, and I went up to the de-
ceased's bedroom to get some matches, and saw her
lying on the floor, and the child was lying by her feet.
I had taken up the box of lucifers before I saw the
body, snd the moment I did so I dropped them on the
ground. I had heard the child cry while I was dress-
ing. The child was between two and three years li
old. I took her out of the room. Soon after this Mr.
Gardner came home. I had not seen him before on
this morning. When I saw him come in I said, " Good
God, Sam, come upstairs," and when he saw his
wife lying dead he said to me, " You wretch, you
have done this ; if you don't move from here I will
give you in charge." When he said this I dropped
on my knees and said, " Good God, show mercy
on my innocence." Mrs. Gardner was in very good
health when I saw her on Sunday, the 14th of
September. The police went into my room and
searched my clothes and everything I had. The
prisoner said I should not stop in his house, and I
went to a person named Spenser, who lives in
Northumberland-alley, and I never went back to
the prisoner's house again ; but I asked the prisoner
to give me some money to enable me to go to my
mother at Gravesend, and he said he would give
me anything in reason, and he gave me 3s. When
I came downstairs on Monday morning the street
door was shut, and no one could get in without
knocking. I left the door open when I went to
fetch the doctor, and the prisoner came in while I
was away. I went with the prisoner to the last
Epsom races.
Mr_ Poland (to the witness)—Had you anything
to do with this murder ?
The Lord Chief Baron said that that was not a
question that should be put. What they wanted
to ascertain was what the witness did, and not what
she did not do.

Cross-examined—l only lived with my husband
six weeks after I was married, and I then went
again to live with the e prisoner. My usual time for
going to bed was nine or ten o'clock, but on this
Sunday night I went to bed two hours earlier than
usual. I went to bed on account of the prisoner being
angry and ill-tempered to me. I did not go to bed
immediately, but sat up for an hour, thinking of the
sufferings that Mr. Gardner bad caused me. I got
up at my usual time on the Monday morning. I
went downstairs with my stockings only on, and I
put on my boots downstairs. There was only one
match in the lower room. I found out that I had
trodden in blood on the Monday morning. I gave
the stockings I was wearing at the time to
the police sergeant, but I did not look at them to
see if they were bloody.
By the Court—My stockings were of a dark
brown colour.

Cross-examination continued—l felt something
cold and wet to my feet through my stockings as I
went into the deceased's room. The deceased had
received a good many letters, such as valentines,
for some time before she died. She could not read
or write. I never sharpened a knife except upon
one occasion, when Mrs. Gardner asked me to do
so at dinner time. I did tell the constable who took
me into custody that Mr. Gardner might have seen
me sharpening a knife on the door-step. I swear
that I did not know I was to leave the house on the
Monday until the prisoner told me I was to do so.

Re-examined-1 never saw the knife that has
been produced to-day until the Sunday before Mrs.
Gardner's death, and she said it had been brought
there with a fork and a plate by some strangers.
Mr. Ribton asked the witness whether she had
not frequently sharpened a knife at eleven o'clock
at night and taken it into her bedroom, where the
prisoner took the knife from her ?
"Witness—Before God, he never took a knife from
me in my bedroom.
Mr. Ribton—Did you never say that, if Mr.
Gardner were not more sociable with you, you
w. uld stick him with a knife ?

Witness—Never. He has threatened ma repeat-
edly.
Mary Spencer said—l live in Northumberland-
alley, and on the morning of the 15th of September
I saw the prisoner. He had a child with him and he
asked me to go to his house, and I did so, and saw
the body of the deceased. Before I went I asked
him what was the matter several times, and he made
no answer. The last witness was in the deceased's
room, and she said, " Oh, Mrs. Spencer, Mrs.
Gardner has cut her throat, and he says I have
done it." The prisoner then said, "Fetch a police-
man," and I did so, and the prisoner refused to
allow Elizabeth Humbler to leave the room. She
was crying, and she said she knew Mr. Gardner to
be a bad man, but she did not think he was capable
of accusing her of such a thing., After Humbler's
clothes had been examined by the police, the pri-
soner said she should not stop in the house any
longer. and I took her to my house. Before she
went the prisoner gave her 3s. to enable her to go
to her friends at Gravesend.

Sergeant Molsbs, of the City police, said—On
Monday morning, the 15th of September, in conse-
quence of some information I received, I went to
the prisoner's house, and saw the dead body
of the
prisoner's wife on the ground. Dr. Sequeira, the
prisoner, and Humbler were present, and ti'e doc-
tor handed the knife to me. When the prisoner
made the observation to Humbler, that ``she had
done it," I advised him to be cautious, and
inquired what grounds he had for making
such a charge. He replied that he had been in the
habit of having intercourse with the girl, and she
was to leave that day. I examined all her clothes
and found no marls of blood. Her hands and face
were begrimed with dirt, as if they bad not been

' I

washed for a eonsiderable time. There were geMe '
valentines on the chair. (They were of a very offen-
sive character, and had reference to the connection
that existed between the prisoner and fumbler.)
examined the room carefully, and could not find
any marks of blood on the wall. There were two
windows in the room, and one of them had no blind
and the blind to the other was drawn down. There
were no marks of blood on the bed, and I did not
observe any upon the person of the prisoner. After
the first inquiry before the coroner the prisoner told
me he was sure his pour wife bad been murdered. I
asked him why he thought so, and he said because
the girl Humbler was to have left his house on the
same day, and he added that he had gone to Hum-
bler's bedroom one morning before she was up, and
saw a knife sticking in her door, and when he asked
her what that meant, she said she did not intend
that he should have found her alive, and he had also
frequently seen her sharpening knives on the sink
stone, and when he asked her what she was doing
that for, she sometimes said they were for herself,
and sometimes for him. He had told me before this
that an improper intimacy had existed between him
and Humbler. On the Friday after the death the
prisoner told me that he had seen several marks of
blood on the wall upstairs and by the side of the
bed, and he showed them to me, but I am positive
these marks were not there when I examined the
place before. He also showed me a mark on the rail
of the bed, as though a wet cloth had been drawn
across it, and some other marks which I am sure
were not there when we searched before. I told the
prisoner so, and he said they might perhaps have
been done in washing the body. The prisoner then
took me to a downstairs room and pointed out a mark
of blood on the curtain and on the shutter, and he
said at the same time that Humbler had opened that
window on the morning of the 15th. I told the pri-
soner upon this that I had examined the curtain and
the shutter several times previously, and I was
quite certain that the marks he had pointed out
were not there, and he made no reply. A detective
officer named Monger was with me when all this
took place. I subsequently apprehended the girl
Humbler at Gravesend, where she was staying
with her friends. I examined her stockings and
they were very dirty, but no trace of blood was
discovered upon them, and the stockings were re-
turned to her.
Cross-examined—l examined the girl Humbler's
clothes on the Monday, but I did not observe any
traces of blood upon her stockings. She did not say
anything to me about having trodden in blood, but
the stockings were carefully examined by the
coroner's jury, in consequence of her having after-
wards said that she had trodden in blood.
Thomas Tallett, the ward beadle of the district in
which Northumberland-alley is situate, deposed
that he went to the prisoner's house on Monday, the
15th of September, and he corroborated the evi-
dence of the last witness as to what took place on
that occasion.
Anthony Wilson Monger, a detective officer who
was with the witness Mobbs when he went to the
prisoner's house, deposed that he went with the
prisoner to look at the body of the deceased after
she ly:.d been placed in the coffin, and he began to
cry, and said he was sure that his poor wife had
been murdered. Witness asked him why he thought
so, and who he suspected, and he replied "Elizabeth
Humbler." After this the prisoner repeated the
same statement he had made to the other constable,
and said that Humbler had several times threatened
that she would kill him and afterwards destroy
herself. He also said that Humbler had met him
one day and had said that she thought he never
meant to speak to her again, and she drew a large
knife from her mantle and said, " I intended this
for you, and afterwards for myself."
Cross-examined—Witness was quite sure that the
prisoner said that Humbler pulled out a large knife
from her mantle.
Eleanor Buxton said that she went tothe prisoner's
house on the 15th of September, and saw the body
of the deceased, and the prisoner said he was sure
she did not do it herself; she was too weak nerved.
Witness assisted to wash the body, and she did it
carefully, and no blood was splashed upon the walls
of the room.
James Gardner, a young man, the son of the de-
ceased by a former husband, was then examined,
and he proved that she was a right-minded woman.
In cross-examination this witness said he had
frequently heard the girl Humbler jeering his
mother and annoying her, and that he heard his
mother give her express instructions to leave on
Monday, the 15th, which was the day she died.
Mr. Ribton here proposed to ask this witness
whether he had not heard Elizabeth Humbler say
on one occasion, shortly before his mother died, that
now she had got once more into the prisoner's house,
she was determined never to leave it again.
The Lord Chief Baron said he was of opinion that
this question could not be put. The witness Hum-
bler had not been asked in cross-examination whether
she had ever made such a statement ; and, besides
this, he really did not see that the fact was of any
importance one way or the other.
Mr. Ribton said he considered it of very great
importance to the prisoner. He should ask the jury
to say that it was just as probable that, if there was
any murder at all committed, this girl was as guilty
as the prisoner, and her conduct, and any expres-
sions made use of by her which tended to support
such a hypothesis, were, as it appeared to him, very
important.
The Lord Chief Baron said he was of opinion that
the question certainly could not be put until the
witness Humbler had first been asked whether she
had ever made any such statement, and he would
allow her to be re-called for that purpose at the
close of the case for the prosecution, if the learned
counsel wished that this should be done.

Mr. Payne, the deputy coroner for the city of
London, was then called as a witness, and he proved
that at the first inquiry before him, which took
place on the 17th of September, the prisoner came
forward and offered to give evidence, and that he
cautioned him, and told him he was not bound to
make any statement, and that any thing he did say
might be used as evidence against him. After
he had given him this caution the prisoner was
sworn and gave his evidence, which witness took
down in writing, and the prisoner signed it.
The deposition of the prisoner was then put in
aad read. It was to the effect that he was willing
to tell all he knew, that he had been married to the
deceased for seven years, and that they lived hap
pity together until the girl Humoler came to live in
their house, about five years ago, and that after this
period his wife was very disagreeable about her, and
wished her to go away, and that she left and got
married. She however only lived with her husband
a short time, and came hack to live with them again;
after this the deceased seemed to complain of her
more than ever, and frequently said that she thought
her conduct was worse since her marriage than it
was before. The prisoner went on to say that on
the Sunday evening before his wife died, the girl
Humbler was annoying and insulting his wife, and
he was determined that she should leave on the fol-
lowing day. He said that he and his wife slept
together on the Sunday night, and they were very
friendly, and he got up as usual, and went to his
work in the morning, and when be left his wife was
in bed, with the child. He then enumerated the
places where he went to work on the Monday morn-
ing, and said that he returned home about 8 o'clock
and then found that his wife was dead, and he said
that the reason he charged Humbler with the mur-
der was, that he thought it probable that she had
insulted his wife and quarrelled with her after he
lett, and that this had led to the act. He also said
that the deceased was not left-handed.
This closed the case for the prosecution.
The witness Elizabeth Humbler was then re-
called at the request of Mr. Ribton, and he asked
her whether she had not stated upon one occasion
that now she had got into the prisoner's house she
was determined not to leave it.

The witness, in reply, declared that she had never
made any such statement, but, on the contrary, she
said that about three weeks before Mrs. Gardner
died she offered of her own accord to leave the pri-
soner's house. She went on to state that one night
the prisoner came home late, and he appeared to
be very angry, and said that both his wife and wit-
ness should go, and that he would have the house
to himself. Witness, in reply to this, said that she
would rather go herself than that Mrs. Gardner
should go, and the prisoner told her to mind her
own business, and that he was the master of the
house and he should do what he liked.
James Gardner, the son of the deceased, was then
again placed in the witness box, and he declared
positively
that he heard the girl Humbler make use
of the expression imputed to her upon more than
one occasion.
In answer to a question put by Mr. Poland this
witness said that he heard Humbler say this about
three or four weeks before his mother died.
This closed the case for the Crown.
Mr. Ribton then addressed the learned judge, and
said that the usual hour for the adjournment of the
court had nearly arrived, and he inquired of his
lordship whether he proposed to finish the trial
that night.

The Lord Chief Baron said that the inquiry was
one of a most important character, and the atten-
tion of the jury had already been directed to
it for several hGurs, and he therefore thought it
would be better to adjourn the case to the follow-
ing morning. He also thought it would only be
fair to Mr. Ribton, after the course that had been
taken of calling the young woman Humbley
as ti
for
witnsss, that he should have an opportunity
considering the effect of her evilence.
The trial was consequently postpotlend
an cases of
row (Friday) morning, the jury, a till to-mor-
felony, being taken to the Londons Coffee-house in
'ch4rge of the officers of the court.