The Sun.
London, England, 1865-03-08 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT

MOUSE OF LORDS—LAsT EVENING.

The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack at
the usual hour.

The School for the indigent Blind Act Amendment Bill
us read a second time.
THE CASE OF MR. EDMUNDS.

The LORD CHANCELLOR said he felt he should
make a statement of all he knew of the matter respect-
ing the resignation of Mr. Edmunds, as Reading Clerk to
the House of Lords. He stated that Mr. Edmunds had
held the office of Clerk of the Patents, an office with a
salary of £4OO a year, created by a statute in the year 1833.
Since then, in the year 1852, a new office had been
created for certain patents—the office of Clerk to the Com-
mission of Patents—with a salary of £6OO a-year. This it
was deemed right, and for several reasons, to give to Mr.
Edmunds. The obligation is thrown upon the clerk
of the patents to pay all :the fees he receives by
virtue of his office into the Exchequer. In 1864 it was
found great confusion had arisen in the Patent-office. Many
complaints were brought to the noble lord touching these
complaints, and Mr. Edmunds was one of the first to
demand the inquiry which followed. The report made by
the committee of inquiry stated that Mr. Edmunds had
received and misapplied public moneys which had come
into his hands, as Clerk of the Patents, to the extent of
£2,681. Since that Mr. Edmunds paid in the sum of
£7,872, notwithstanding the committee had reported
that he was a defaulter only to the extent of £2,681 ;
and accordingly further inquiry was made in January
this year, and the commissioner stated that Mr.
Edmunds was still further indebted in the sum of £9,100.
Mr. Edmunds has not yet made his answer to that
report. The noble lord first took the opinion of the
Government upon the question whether he should lay
the matter before their lordships. The Government
was of opinion that he should; and he therefore in-
tended to lay the report and Mr. Edmunds'i reply upon
the table of the house; and to move for a committee
of inquiryinto the subject ; and to advise the house
as to the course it would be proper to take upon
;thatinformation. But Mr. Edmunds made to him an
earnest request that he should not make that com-
munication for a few days longer until he (Mr. Edmunds)
had received some communications from abroad. At that
earnest request he postponed the communication for
four or five days. Then Mr. Edmunds sent in a petition
praying to be permitted to resign, and also stating that
as he had been a servant of the country for eighteen
years, he hoped he should have granted to him the
usual pension of £BOO a year. The resignation was,
therefore, laid before their lordships and accepted. The
matter was laid before the committee, and it was a ques-
tion for his lordship to consider if he should pursue
Mr. Edmunds before the committee. As the inquiry had
not fully come to an end, he could not bring his mind to
pursue Mr. Edmunds. The law officers were of opinion
that there was not ground for criminal proceedings.
If it should be found in the end that Mr. Edmunds
is still a defaulter, the pension is liable to be taken
and will be taken, in satisfaction of the debt. The noble lord
concluded: It was necessary that the lesser office, that of
clerk of the patents, with a salary of £4OO a year,
should be immediately filled up. The patronage
was with the Prime Minister, but on my advice the
Prime Minister presented the appointment to a relation of
my own. The other office, that of Clerk of Commission of
Patents, in the Lord Chancellor's patronage, it was not ne-
cesssary to fill immediately, and it will not be filled until
the matter is settled. The noble lord moved that a com-
mission of their lordships be appointed to inquire into the
whole matter.

The Earl of DERBY—My lords, I cannot pretend to feel
any surprise, considering the amount of observation which
the resignation of the office of Mr. Edmunds in this house,
and the pension granted to him, have called forth in the
public mind, and also in the minds of the parties concerned.
I say, I cannot feel surprised that the noble and learned
lord should take the earliest opportunity of making the
statement which he has done this evening.- And, my lords,
the concluding sentence of the noble and learned lord's
speech, following up the intimation which he gave at the
commencement, will, I think, satisfy your lordships that it
will not be expedient on the present occasion to enter into
detail as to the circumstances, with which we are at present
but very imperfectly acquainted. My lords, there are three
parties on their trial before the public in this inquiry. There
is the case of Mr. Leonard Edmunds himself ; there is the
case of the committee of your lordships' house, who, upon
imperfect information, as it would appear to me, recom-
mended the grant of the pension ; and lastly, if I may be
allowed to say so, there is the course that has been pursued
by the noble and learned lord on the woolsack himself. The
noble and learned lord has invited the fullest investigation
by your lordships into the course which has been pursued, 1
and it would be premature and highly improper, with the
limited information we have before us, to go into the
question. Ido not doubt that the committee to be ap-
pointed to inquire into the merits of the case will also be
desirous that the matter should be fairly placed before
the public through the medium of your lordships. I am
informed that Mr. Leonard Edmonds, whatever may have
been the amount of indiscretion or imprudence, or even, if
you choose to use so hard a word as criminality, may be
imputed to him, is himself anxious for the fullest inquiry,
and to make a statement before the committee of the cir-
dumstances connected with this matter. But your lord-
ships will observe that he comes to this discussion, if there
be any discussion, at a great disadvantage. The noble and
learned lord has had the oprortunity of making his state-
ment, and I do not in the slightest degree complain that be
should•have made it in the way that he has thought it de-
sirable to do. But the one point on which the whole matter
turns, namely, the amount of indiscretion or criminality
which attaches to Ir. Edmunds, is not at this moment be-
fore your lordships, although that is an essential condition
on which alone you can judge as to the propriety of the
course which the noble and learned lord has pursued. I am
told that there are extenuating circumstances with regard
to the defalcations in the Patent Office. No doubt there
were irregularities, and lam informed—it may be mere
rumour—that the charge against Mr. Leonard Edmunds is
that instead of handing over a sum of money to the Govern-
ment he had placed it in a deposit bank, when until it was
called for he was receiving on his own account interest ;
but as a claim was made, he paid over the whole sum due
to the public, certainly a larger sum than he was a defaulter
for, to the best of his judgment. Now, it may have been
extremely imprudent and extremely improper that money
should, even for a time, have been placed to such an ac-
count, for Mr. Edmunds's own benefit ; yet I must say that
if this is the whole case—l know lam speaking in entire
ignorance of what the case may be—but I say if that were
the whole case, it falls very far short of that whichhasbeen
imputed to him as a criminal act. Now, I do not for one
moment dispute Mr. Leonard Edmunds's own statement.
He made a report to the commissioners, which we have not
seen, but which of course the committee of your lordships'
house will see. I am now alluding to the preliminary
report. Mr. Leonard Edmunds, I understand, at once re-
signed the office of clerk of patents and the corresponding
office of clerk of the commissioners ; he then remained in
the office of reading clerk at your lordships' table, and I
confess I am not altogether satisfied that, with regard to
that office, a somewhat hasty course has not been taken
with respect to Mr. Edmunds. The noble and learned lord
Informs us that, in the first instance, he was under the-
impression that the dismissal from that office rested not
with your lordship& house, but with himself as. Lord Chan-
cellor, and no one could complain that, with that responsi-
bility attaching to him he should have felt it his duty to
make most stringent inquiries, and to take suet advice on
the subject as might justify him him us to the course which
he ought to pursue ; but it subsequently appears that the
dismissal from the office was not the act of the Lord Chan-
•
cellor but of the house itself ; and here I think there is
ground for inquiry whether the proper course was pursued
or not, because, if I am not misinformed, the Lord Chancel-
lor, previous to the meeting of Parliament, informed Mr.
Leonard Edmunds that it was his intention to bring the
whole case under the consideration of the House of Lords,
but that if Mr. Edmunds consented to resign his office in-
stead of being dismissed by the House of Lords, in that case
the Lord Chancellor would place no obstacle in the way of
his receiving his pension as reading clerk. Now, my lords,
if the dismissal from that place
,was in the hands of the
e
House of Lords, the question ought not to h
on the footing that the resignation of the officea
should have
secured to Mr. Edmunds the good offices of the have been put
Lord
Chan-
cellor in obtaining a pension to which he was not strictly
been
fairly fairly entitled. But the question out to have n
fairly put—
The LORD CHANCELLOR—I beg to assure my noble
friend and noble lords that that statement which has been
made to him is utterly without foundation : it is utterly
and entirely untrue. I cannot account for its having been
communicated to him, except from the circumstance
that I have mentioned, namely that an application was
made to me to postpone my statement to the house for a
few days, it being told me that it was Mr. Edmunds's in-
tentionl
co__ to. resig-n if ho got a communication from abroad.
consented to withhold my statement and the laying of the
papers on the table in consequence of that communication;
but that I ever held out to Mr. Edmunds that I would with-
hold the statement if he resigned, isquite destitute of foun-
dation.
The Earl of DERBY—I am bound to accept, without
hesitation, the statement of the noble and learned lord,
holding the high position which ho doe
a statement
made
0 I
publicly in your lordships' house ; but at the same ti
am bound to say-that I should never have ventured on me
a suggestion if it had not been stated to me in the 'most
positive manner that the very notice VMS sent in on the
declaration on the part of the noble and learned lord, that
if Mr. Edmunds would resign his office the noble and
learned lord would place no obstacle in the way of his ob-
taining his pension. Of course I accept the denial of the
noble and learned lord, but that is one of the questions
which the committee will find it necessary to satisfy them-
selves upon. The parties concerned will be brought face
to face with each other, and all the circumstances brought
fully before the committee. Now, my lords, I would say
that the course which in my mind ought to have been
pursued was this—that inasmuch as the House of Lords,
And not the noble and learned lord, is responsible for the