The Sun.
London, England, 1865-10-31 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, OCTOBER 31, IE€E.

a force as if propelled by a powerful engine. The
thick dark rush came in regular pulsations in a great
roaring stream of gas and oil, lasting about fifteen
seconds, when for about five seconds' interval it
only gurgled a volume of fetid gas almost as white
and dense as steam. A careful timing of the inter-
vals of rush and comparative stoppage showed not
a second's variation between either, the well yield-
ing steadily about 1,500 barrels per day—that is to
say, in the 24 hours. Half of the yield of this fine
property is paid to the United States' well, close at
hand, as a royalty for the permission to sink it on
their territory. This United States' well is close by
the Grant well, within 100 feet or so, yet, as is
always the case, they essentially differ both in the
quality of their oil and in the intermittent nature
of their flow. The United States' pipe pours oil
into its tanks with immense force for about 30
seconds, and then has a 30 seconds pause, during
which it only pours forth gas of the most terribly
inflammable nature. So bad is this vapour even for
Pithole that the tanks of this well are covered with
huge wooden lids, each having a wooden spire-
shaped chimney from its centre to take off the gas
as high as possible. Yet, in spite of the horrible
danger that fire threatens, one can scarcely say that
much precaution is taken here against it. I have
spent many hours in great powder magazines, yet,
on the whole, I would rather pass a month in them
than a day by the great wells in Pithole, which are
simply as dangerous as any powder stores without
one of their precautions. It is true that at every
hand's turn one meets the warning notice, " No
smoking," " Beware of smoking," " Smokers will be
lynched," &c. Yet, in spite of everything, smoking
does go on on the sly, when teamsters and others
can slip into the brushwood and furtively light their
pipes, even though, like miners who do the same in
fiery pits, they know that they do so at the risk of
their own lives and those of all around them. As an
instance, when we visited the United States well, a
man in charge asked us to give up all lucifers and
fusees before goingup to the flow-pipe. The demand
was conscientiously complied with, and the collection
from a large party made a pretty good handful,
which vas taken and thrown into the stream out-
side, but so carelessly thrown that nearly one-half
alighted on the little wooden bridge across it. The
very first group that passed over this bridge trod
among the matches, setting them on fire, and there
was a rush :and a scurry to hustle them into the
stream. Since I was first here a fortnight ago the
tanks of the Grant well have taken fire. They did
not explode, but burnt out fiercely, burning down
17 derricks, a lot of oily trees around, exploding
gas here and there, and generally doing damage to
the amount of £25,000 in a couple of hours. This
accident happily took place in the night, when the
wood was not crowded, nor the teams about.
From th 3 States' well we passed to the Sherman
well, to No. 110, No. 54, No. 71, and many
others. All have the same character of intermittent
flow. All without exception flowed at different
intervals. Not any two, no matter how close toge-
ther, gave exactly the same quality of oil. In some
it was half brine, half oil, in some equal gas and oil,
in some a little oil and a great deal of gas, and vice
versa. Some flowed at half-hour intervals, some at
three, some at 12 ; some flowed only three hours a
day, and for the next 21 hours gave off their gas.
Some flowed only three days a week, but all, no
matter what the length of interval during which the
supply stopped, could be depended on to a second
of time to resume it—that is to say, if it ever began
flowing again. Some wells here have never yielded
oil at all, but are pouring out gas in deadly profu-
sion. Every one knows that this escape of power is
lessening the chance of the productiveness of all
wells far and near it. But here every one is for
himself, and the owners of gas wells have to be
bought off, and thus, as a rule, make as much money
as any of the others. Few, on a first visit, can bear
the deadly miasma of the gas without temporary ill-
ness. Yet this first intolerable nausea, which is a
compound of seasickness and high fever, never lasts
beyond the first three or four days, and after that
people not only withstand it, but actually get to
like it as having an exhilarating effect upon their
spirits. Not only do they like the smell, but the
taste, and the men employed day and night in filling
the barrels from the bottom of the tanks take from
two to three wine glass doses of crude petroleum a
day, as an absolute specific against chills, cold, or
ague. I cannot appeal to my own experience,
never having tried the remedy ; but at least
the experience of the people of America for the
last 50 years has shown that petroleum oil applied
externally cures rheumatism, and certainly the state-
ments of those here who work, live, and sleep in
wet, and whose only medicine is a little crude petro-
leum, would seem to prove that it has some medi-
cinal virtues of a high character. Labour never
stops at Pithole during the night. The wells are
flowing, and those that are not may burst out at
any minute. Time also is precious, and drilling for
new wells, seaming out old ones, melting the paraffin
wax away from the tubes of those that have got
clogged, goes on without variation, morning, noon,
and night. As darkness falls the iron pipes which
give off the gas above the derricks are lit at their
summits one after another with a dull exploding
boom ; heavy sheets of flame leap roaring and
glaring about, and by the light of these, among the
woods, men work as easily as at midday. Then the
scene is wonderful in its wild, rough picturesqueness,
—so wonderful in its curious effects of light and
shade as to defy description. It is as if ironworks,
coal mines, blast furnaces, and huge gasworks were
suddenly scattered pellmell along a deep ravine of
an American forest; great masses of pines lit to
their very summits by the intense glare, with
gloomy avenues of trees so dense that no light pene-
trates ; men working at the wells, always filling
barrels and rolling them away to meet the morn-
ing's demands ; men surveying, men notching trees,
men cutting them down or building derricks ; and
beyond all, at either side on the hills above the
Creek, there seems a flickering illumination going
on, as, amid an incessant tap, tap of hammers, the
carpenters keep at work nailing the houses of Pit-
' hole City together, or trying to build its timber
side-walks so as to make the town not only habit-
able but passable.

BREVET BRIGADIER GENERAL HORACE T.
SANDERS.—Brevet Brigadier-General Horace T. Sanders,
of Racine, Wis., expired in the city of Washington on the
Bth instant, of pulmonary consumption. General Sanders
was for many years preceding the war among the promi-
nent lawyers of Wisconsin, and abandoned &good practice
to enter the service in 1861. By extraordinary effort his
regiment, the Nineteenth Wisconsin Infantry, was raised,
clothed, armed, and equipped, and mustered into the ser-
vice April 19, 1862, and ordered to the Army of the Poto-
mac. Since then its history is that of the Grand Army in
its advances against Richmond. General Sanders' health
broke down to such au extent as to unfit him for field
service nearly two years ago ; but his ability as a lawyer
rendered him invaluable on military commissions and
courts-martial. An injury received in one cf our attacks
on Drury's Bluff still further incapacitated him for labor,
but failed to drive him from the service. He was subse-
quently appointed provost-marshal of Norfolk, and ac-
quitted himself in that trying position to the satisfaction
of all whose opinions were entitled to consideration. He
was finally mustered out of service with the non-veteran
portion of his regiment at the expiration of their three
years' term of service, and breveted a brigadier-general
from that date. Finding himself too feeble to resume the
practice of his profession he went to Washington one
week ago to ask some appointment from the Government
he had literally sacrificed his life to defend, but succumbed
to disease before his hopes were realised. General Sanders
was an able lawyer, a warm friend, and a true patriot.
Secretary Stanton has ordered the remains to be seat to
Wisconsin at Government expense, in charge of an officer
to be designated by General Augur.—New York herald.
James Nisbet, one of the editors of the San Fran-
cisco Bulletin, was among the sufferers by the wreck of
the Brother Jonathan on the Pacific coast, las,t month.
The body of the old man was found floating in, I.e ocean,
seven miles from land. When it was taken ashore and
examined there was found in the deceased's vest pocket a
nlagtig
cchalamnelyesthfoer tleif7ible scones about him, and
will which was written after the ship struck the fatal rock.
cCaol nc
ut el
amt ip
those
omakeldlr
tst
nu beneficialch
tao
writing dispositionww ihlio,mapwolieflotiniiulh,:el idslsyst propertyhobe;ienlnlicooisf,tav
he had the cool courage to
nla
ibnanae
agsh childreniNton fodel ltrhlhadiegni
itewa:ne
gma
Tlpsioeenbssalott
that was lashing the ocean into foaming billows, and sur-
roundedout
th eir
abaygon to drowningthe
presents a heroic picture.

- Ex-Governor Horton, of Texas, died at Mata-
gorda on the Ist of September.
Major-General Hooker was lately married to Miss
Groesbeck at Cincinnati.
Governor Oglesby, of Illinois, has issued an ad-
dress to the Governors of the different States and Terri-
tories, to be submitted by them to the Legislatures and
people of their States, asking more active and efficient co-
operation in the matter of raising funds for the Lincoln
monument.
Jefferson Davis was removed on the 2d inst.,
under a strong guard, from his casemate prison to the
quarters assigned him in Carroll Hall.

Dean Stanley on Lord Palmerston.

The Very Rev. Dean Stanley preached the ser-
mon at the afternoon service at Westminster Abbey
on Sunday. There was a crowded congregation.
The Dean took the text from the epistle of the
day. Ephes. v. 15—" See then ye walk circum-
spectly, not as fools, but as wise, redeeming the time,
because the days are evil. Wherefore, be ye not
unwise, but understanding what the will of the
Lord is." That, said the preacher, is what they
were called upon to do that day, to understand what
is the especial will of God in the homage paid to the
illustrious dead. Every great man whose ashes re-
posed beneath that roof was so honoured for a dis-
tinct and special reason. As each lofty peak in a
mountain country is illuminated by the setting sun
with a different colour, so with distinguished minds
—in the sunset of life they all showed distinct hues.
The preacher said he would leave out of considera-
tion altogether questions of party connected with
the late Prime Minister, and confine himself to the
simple question, what was . the special intention
of God as manifested in the conduct and career of
Lord Palmerston. Of all political chiefs it might
be said of him that he accomplished the greatest re-
sults by the lowliest and most ordinary means. It
was that which made his life so full of rich lessons—
lessons of industry, of application, and of patience
in the pursuit of great ends. This was the fruitful
lesson which the life of the illustrious departed held
up to the edification of the young men of this gene-
ration—a lesson of plodding, persevering diligence.
Not by oratory, but by geniality, good humour, con-
stancy of friendship, and all the lesser graces, but not
the less graces, did Lord Palmerston succeed. The rev.
preacher apostrophised those who poisoned discus-
sion with bitterness, and who pushed views to the
extreme, giving no quarter and no indulgence to
their opponents, and reminded them that a soft word
turneth away wrath. He held out to them the
example of Lord Palmerston, who never harboured
ill-feeling after the fiercest strife of politics. From
a youth of comparative obscurity, and through
many shiftings and changes of mature life, there
came to him a brighter and serener day in his octo-
genarian age. Nor let them shut out the encourage-
ment which this was calculated to give to others by
saying that it was the result of an extraordinary
good constitution. The illustrious chief did his duty
simply, and left the consequences to God. He
said on one occasion that he could never com-
prehend the anxieties of responsibility ; that he
took every pains to do well what he had to do,
and thus his spirit was delivered from all
anxiety. What was the thought that from
first to last guided his policy ? An unfail-
ing trust and belief in the power and greatness
and in the future of England. He was an
Englishman above all things ; and for that it was
that his name was known throughout the world.
This was the thought which on that occasion pressed
most upon them, even to the exclusion of those
higher considerations of a future life, which he
would not now advert to. In presence of that still
open vault it was the first duty of the preacher to
ask what it was they owed to their country. Let
them consider England, and what was its origin,
its fusion of hostile races, its history, its constitu-
tion, wrought out amidst so many struggles, its
freedom of conscience and of speech, and the sober
religious kindness which prevailed amongst us—let
them consider these, for they were some of the
things that went to make up the idea of England.
The maintenance of that England, its future and its
progress, depended altogether upon the spirit and
conduct of its individual citizens. And to be a
citizen of England in its best sense was the highest
position which their late political chief could
conceive. It was a position to be proud of ;
but it brought with it its duties. Standing
in the gloom around the grave of that illustrious
man, they could not but feel that they were on a
turning point of the nation's history whence the
springs of political and national life would flow in
another direction. The oldest cf now living states-
men, compared with the deceased, belong to a
newer age ; but, after all, it is public opinion which
directs. In England public opinion is moulded by
every one who has a will and conscience of his own,
and on all and each of them it depended whether
that public opinion should be depressing or elevat-
ing, just or unjust, Christian or unchristian ; and
thus the characters of our public men were inspired
by the whole nation. Still a single resolute mind,
a single puro spirit, a single voice praying con-
stantly on behalf of justice and mercy and freedom
had wrought great and beneficial results. In
conclusion, the very reverend preacher called upon
his hearers in the presence of the open grave
of the great departed, to forget those things
which, he said, are behind you. Forget in him
who is gone all that was of the earth earthy,
and reach forward in his character to all
that is immortal, the kindness, the perseverance, the
freedom from party spirit, the self-devotion which
are still before each one of us. Forget, too, in the
past and present generation, all that is behind the
best spirit of our age, all that is behind the true
spirit of the Gospel, all that is behind the require-
ments of the most Christian conscience, and reach

forward, one and all, towards those great things
which we may trust are still before us—the great
problems which our age may solve, the great facts
which our nation alone may accomplish, the great
doctrines of our common faith ; that we may have
the opportunity of grasping with a firmer hold all
that may effect a reconciliation of things old with
things new, of things common with things strange, of
class with class, man with man, nation with nation,
church with church, and all with God. This is the
high calling of England, of Engish statesmen, of
every English citizen, of the 19th century. This is
the will of God.
The very rev. preacher was listened to with deep
attention throughout a discourse of which the Pre-
ceding is necessarily only a brief outline.

SPIRIT OF THE PUBLIC JOURNALS.

TIMES.—In the opinion of many the position and
prospects of the Government are not at the present
moment fit subjects for criticism in a newspaper ad-
vocating Liberal opinions, and sincerely anxious to
promote the cause of progress and enlightenment
throughout these kingdoms. In the first place, an
appeal is made ad misericordiam. The case, it is
said, is certainly a very awkward one, but then it is
nobody's fault. Had the Government of Lord Pal-
merston been dissolved by a vote of the House of
Commons, nothing can be more legitimate than cri-,
ticisms on its structure and speculations on its pro-
spects. But the Government has been put an end to
by the inevitable calamity of the death of the Prime
Minister. Lord Russell has succeeded to the first
place by seniority, being just as much older than
his immediate junior in the Government as Lord
Palmerston was older than he. The thing is as much
a matter of course as that the Major succeeds to the
command of the regiment in action when the colonel
is killed. Lord Russell is not responsible for the
Government which he finds, and which he is bound
to carry on as he finds it, and it is ungenerous to be
hypercritical upon a state of things which, however
unfortunate, is yet nobody's fault. Others are in-
clined to admit that the state of things is exceed-
ingly unsatisfactory; nay, thatit is of that kind which
is wont to forerun a serious disaster. But what, they
say, is the use of pointing out these mischiefs ? Why
not leave them to be discovered by adversaries ?
And why disclose the fact that things are not as we
could wish them with regard to a matter of the first
importance in party politics—the construction of
that body to which we must look for leadership and
direction as well as for the administration of the
public affairs of a vast empire ? We do not believe
that the existence of so important a thing as a Go-
vernment can ever be a question of mere etiquette.
Lord Russell is Premier to all intents and purposes;
as Premier he is responsible for the construction of
his Government, for its ability to face Parliament,
and for its power to carry on the different depart-
ments of the State with vigour and success. If this
be not done the blame will fall upon him, and not
upon the untoward circumstances which have
placed him where he is. He has, besides, in his
hand the interests and destinies of a great party ;
he succeeds to a very rich inheritance. Lord Pal-
merston has bequeathed to him a nation contented
at home, at peace abroad, and free from any serious
complications and embarrassments, except the
American claim for compensation, hich seems to
have been made against us rather for the purpose
of being recorded than of being pressed. Upon
him devolves the responsibility of continuing this
state of things, and he cannot shift it off himself
upon any set of men or any conjuncture of circum-
stances. The proper way to look at the present
Government is to regard it, like any other instru-
ment, with reference to the work it has to do and
the power which it possesses of accomplishing it.
We only repeat the general opinion of those who
have written on the subject when we say that its
structure does not do justice to the preponderating
influence which the House of Commons claims and
has established for itself in the councils of the
nation. The same complaint was made, and with
great justice, during the lifetime of Lord Palmerston.
It was felt to be a great practical evil, as we have
frequently pointed out, that the Ministers under
whose direction twenty-five millions of public money
were annually expended—the Secretary at War and
the First Lord of the Admiralty—were not present
in the House of Commons ; and the same observa-
tion was made with regard to the Secretary for
Foreign Affairs. There was, however, it must be
said, great compensation in the presence of Lord
Palmerston. He had the direction as Prime
Minister of every Department of the State,
and was always ready to give information
and answer questions. As far as foreign affairs
went, his presence was more valuable than that
of the Secretary of State himself. He had
twenty years' experience of the Foreign-office, and
spoke on the subject with a knowledge and autho-
rity which nobody in the House could rival for a
moment. By his death the presence of both these
offices was really lost to the House of Commons.
Nor was this all ; Lord Palmerston had not only
been Foreign Minister for twenty years: he had been
for twenty years Secretary at War, and possessed a
practical knowledge of the subject second to that of
no one in Parliament. All this is lost to the house
on his death, without saying anything of the in-
fluence of his great age, his historic name, his un-
bounded personal popularity, his tact, and his expe-
rience ; for all these losses the House of Commons
receives no compensation whatever. We are not
now speaking of the loss of Lord Palmerston as the
held of a party, but simply of the loss sustained by
the Government in the House of Commons. It is
really incalculably great. To suppose that Govern-
ment can be carried on by the same persons with-
out Lord Palmerston in the house of Commons as
with him is really like believing that a watch will
go as well without a mainspring as with it. We
wish to say nothing of those gentlemen who, with
good abilities, excellent intentions, and fair success,
either as heads of departments or as Under-Secre-
taries, have carried on their business in the House
of Commons. We only wish to point out that a
task which was by no means too light for them
while they had the help of Lord Palmerston must
be utterly beyond their strength when that help is
withdrawn. We cannot help thinking it is better
to look to these things at once, instead of waiting
till practical experience has shown the truth of what
everybody knows and everybody anticipates. It is
also to be remarked that the old complaint which
was so strongly made against the Whig Government
of 1846 bids fair to renew itself. The Govern-
ment without Lord Palmerston, and with the
addition of Lord Clarendon, is assuming once more
the air of an arrangement by which place and
power are distributed among a few great families.
Mr. Gladstone is the striking exception ; but Mr.
Gladstone is declared too young for the first place,
and almost every other member of the Cabinet can
trace his position to some other influence beyond
his personal merits and abilities. These things are
naturally regarded with dislike by the House of
Commons—a dislike not removed by the allotment
of a few, a very few minor offices, whether in the
Cabinet or out of it, to persons unconnected with a
particular section of the aristocracy. Our present
rulers are bad nurserymen ; they have planted out
no young trees, and when the old ones fall there
will be none to replace them. The official expe-
ls rience which has been. gained lay nearly thirty years
of office is concentrated in an incredibly small
number of hands, and as the Ministry dies out the
Whig party is in great danger of finding itself very
much in the same position as in 1831—not without
ability and good intention, but almost without
official experience. The Government thus unfor-
tunately constituted has before it the tremendous
difficulty of taking some decisive course with regard
to Reform. The question can no longer be kept
open or trifled with as in the last Parliament ; some
resolution must be taken, and upon that resolution
the Government must be constructed. We are not
offering an opinion as to what that resolution should
be, but merely pointing out the expediency of its
being at once taken and announced. Whatever the
decision may be, when it is once come to it will be
quite possible for the present Government to find
strength from one wing or other of the party. Till
it is come to the task of recruiting is simply hope-
less. There is nothing for it but to meet Parlia-
ment with the prospect of not being able to carry
the business on through the Session, and then to
try the most dangerous and difficult of all party
manoeuvres—the attempt to reconstruct a shattered,
disunited, and disheartened party in the face of an
inspirited and perhaps successful Opposition. It is
because ss e do not wish to see these things happen,
and because we think if things are suffered to go on
as they do now these things are pretty certain to
happen, that we raise our warning voice while it is
yet time. It is easy to strengthen the crew while
the vessel is yet in port, but the operation comes
too late on the open ocean, in the face of a heavy
gale, or of a victorious enemy.
POST.—Lord Russell's Administration will pos-
sess the advantage of a three months' preparation
before the assemling of Parliament. The interval
will supply, to a certain extent, a test of what it is
really worth ; and the departments whose activity
will meanwhile be most conspicuous are fortunately
those in which more confidence is reposed than in
any others. It will devolve on Lord Clarendon to
conduct those delicate negociations which are still
pending both with America and with some European
States ; and Mr. Gladstone will be occupied with
the preparation of another of those budgets which
seem to have been designed for the last six years to
fascinate the more impressionable of our economists
at home. Under the guidance of the former the

Foreign-office is hardly likely to go far wrong ; and
indeed the substitution of Lord Clarendon for Lord
Russell in that department is the only consolation
to be found under the heavy blow that both the
Government and the nation have sustained. More-
ever, there is reason to hope that it will now be more
than ever the desire of the disciples of Lord Pal-
merston to yield an implicit following to his policy.
Mr. Gladstone at the same time will, it is to be
assumed, pursue the financial principles that have
already brought him so many votaries. The three
months now following are commonly a period of
great administrative activity; and if Lord Russell
and his colleagues avail themselves of this opportu-
nity with the prudence which certainly ought to be
presumed from their experience, it is possible
that they may be able to meet Parliament with
more sympathy and support in the heart of the
nation than probably at this moment exists. We
confess we entertain less apprehension for Lord
Russell's ability to keep his Cabinet together

than we have as to his success in retaining
the confidence of the new House of Commons.
Our contemporaries have been very free in pre-
dicting Cabinet divisions, and the breaking up of
the Ministry through the formation of different
parties. No doubt Lord Russell will elicit a much
less willing discipline and subordination among his
colleagues than Lord Palmerston did. But it seems
to be forgotten that the element of coalition has
pretty nearly died out from the Ministry. The
Cabinet of Lord Palmerston, it is quite true, was
formed in 1859, like that of Lord Aberdeen in 1853,
on the basis of a fusion of parties. But during the
last six years the Peelite party, as it was once
termed, has so fallen away that there are only two
disciples of the late Sir Robert Peel to be found in
the Administration. The Duke of Newcastle and
Lord Herbert are no more ; and one or two subor-
dinate members of Government, who formerly clung
to that party, have also withdrawn. Lord Canning,
again, though not latterly a Minister at home, has
been also lost to the Peel school. At this moment
only Mr. Gladstone and Mr. Cardwell remain ; and
even the latter was supposed to have abjured Peelism
before the present Cabinet was formed. It follows,
therefore, that Lord Russell's Ministry is pretty
nearly a homogeneous Whig Government. Even the
Lord Chancellor, though he served in the Coalition
Cabinet of 1853 was Lord Melbourne's Solicitor-
General ; and Mr. Milner Gibson was a member of
Lord Russell's pure Whig Ministry of 1846. This
state of things presents a curious commentary on the
prediction, so common fifteen years ago, that the
Whigs were a declining faction, and the Peelites an
ascending national party. The Whigs, on the con-
trary, have fairly worn the Peelites down, though
they have sustained quite as heavy losses from morta-
lity as the latter. Theyhave lately lost by death Lord
Pahnerston, Lord Lansdowne, and Sir G. Lewis ;
while Lord Grey, their most eloquent advocate in the
House of Lords, has deliberately abandoned them.
We point out these circumstances, not in evi-
dence of any intrinsic advantage to the Govern-
ment, but simply to indicate that, if the Government
is to break down through a want of internal cohesion,
as is just now being predicted, the result will be a
very singular one indeed. Its almost purely Whig
character is, externally speaking, a source of great
disadvantage and weakness. Year after year the
Whigs, as such, appear to exert less influence over
the general mass of the Liberal majority in. the
House of Commons. It is obvious that the Cabinet
requires a stronger and broader representation in
that house than it now has. Lord Palmerston's
influence and popularity served to conceal the inroad
which had been made on the original strength of the
Treasury bench in the Commons. Now the losses
that have been sustained there reveal themselves in
all their reality. The difficulty of making up for
them in any way is a great aggravation of all this.
Where, in truth, is the Government to obtain fresh
strength ? If we look for it in Mr. Horsman or Mr.
Lowe, two of the ablest debaters in the Liberal
ranks, we must at once be prepared to break with
the Radicals on the whole question of Parliamentary
Reform. Lord Russell and Mr. Gladstone are
surely not prepared to do this. Mr. Horsman and
Mr. Lowe have declared as emphatically against
Reform as the Duke of Wellington did in 1830.
They would not only bring no tail with them, but•
would insure the secession of Mr. Bright and his

friends. The list of the new House of Commons
may. be searched in vain for any name that would
add much to the rhetorical or administrative strength
of the Government while it would also bring them
fresh support in a division.