The Sun.
London, England, 1853-03-16 00:00:00

moved as an amendment the reference of the matter to a
select committee.
Mr. WILLIAMS seconded the amendment.
Mr. DEEDES, as chairman of the Blackburn committee,
was for altering the law, if necessary, but •not for inter-
fering with the power given to a committee under the
existing law.
Lord J. RUSSELL hoped the house would carefully
consider the course it was about to take ; and more espe-
cially he hoped they would do so after the speech of the
hon. gentleman opposite (Mr. Deedes). If he understood
the honourable gentleman rightly, he proposed to reverse
altogether the course of proceeding which the house had
now taken for a very long time. The question was, what
course the house meant to take in these cases 9 He was
most anxious that, if possible, the house should take a
consistent course with respect to them, and not have to
judge as to the weight of the particular evidence in each
particular case. (Hear, hear.) He did not at all regret
that the evidence in the Blackburn case was not before
the house, because no doubt the committee had decided
properly, and he did not want to confound with that
evidence his vote on this occasion. (Hear, hear.) There
were certain reports with regard to elections in certain
boroughs, and he supposed the house would not be far
from the truth in supposing that in several of the cases
in which the seats were voided by bribery, that bribery
was only proved in a few cases—that ,it was the excep-
tion not affecting generally the character of the elec-
tion. In several other cases the house could not very well
refuse to believe that, although only a few persons were
reported to the house as guilty of bribery, the bribery was
very extensive and very general. Suppose the house ap-
pointed a select committee in every one of these cases, the
committees would probably find with regard to several of
the boroughs, that there were no reasons why the writ
should not immediately issue. They would find in other
cases that bribery and corruption were very extensive ;
and on their reporting so to the house the act of last session
would come into operation, because the act was not con-
fined to those cases which were reported by select commit-
tees appointed to try election petitions, but extended also
to cases in which select committees were appointed to in-
quire into the existence of corrupt practices. Therefore
that act contemplated that there should be select commit-
ees in certain cases without the power of taking evidence
on oath, to which the hon. gentleman objected. But the
act took no such objection ; it admitted of inquiry by a
committee ; and if the committee reported that a prima
facie case of general bribery and corruption had been made
out, on an address to the Crown, a commission was ap-
pointed. If the act so contemplated, he could not conclude
that in the face of their own act, and in spite of that act,
select committees should never be appointed to inquire
into bribery at all. (Hear, hear, hear.) He had men-
tioned that the first course was in all these cases to appoint
select committees, and then there would be no party divi-
sion on the subject ; because the rule would be laid down .
that immediately an election was declared void by bribery
Majority for issuing the writ l3l
a select committee of inquiry into that bribery should be
appointed. Another course was to appoint committees on THE SHIP VIOLET.
petitions from electors, to inquire into corrupt practices, Mr. WHALLEY said he had given notice of a motion on
and in no other cases. The third course was not to appoint the subject of the capture of the ship Violet by pirates in
such a committee in any case, and to carry the investiga- 1851; but, as the information which he had received on
tion no further than by the inquiries made by select con- the subject from the Government rendered the motion un-
mittees on election petitions. The last course, he must necessary, he begged to withdraw it.
say, was very objectionable, as it was a course which would Motion accordingly withdrawn,
screen a great deal of bribery. (Hear, hear, hear.) It was
for the house very much to decide for itself. He did not SELECT COMMITTEES.
wish to make any motion on the subject. His preference Mr. EWART rose to move for a select committee to in-
certainly was for taking the first course. Still if the house quire whether the constitution and action of the select
should think fit to take the second course, he should sub- committees of this house might not be improved by gene-
nit to the decision of the house ; but he confessed, if the rally diminishing the number of members composing such
house were asked to come to a decision, he should give his committees, and by making provision for their giving more
vote on the division in favour of the motion of the hon. undivided attention to subjects committed to their consi.
member for Westminster. (Hear.) deration than they are able to do wider the present system.
Mr. Bouverie, Mr. Barrow, and Mr. Wortley opposed He said he was anxious to call the attention of the house
the amendment, as introducing an inconvenient and dan- to the subject, with the view of remedying what he consi-
gerous system. dered the evils of the present system of constituting select
Mr. HEYWOOD said a few words on the part of Black- committees. It often happened that there were conflicting
burn, and Mr. Bess attempted to say a few words against committees sitting • that members were appointed to more
it, but was not listened to. than one committee at the same time, and were thus pre-
Ultimately, after a brief reply, from Mr. W. PATTEN, vented from discharging the duties imposed on them. The
Sir J. SHELLEY yielded to the advice of that hon. gentle- hon. and learned member concluded by proposing the above
man, and agreed to withdraw his amendment, upon which motion.
the original motion was agreed to. The question having been put,
BRIDGNORTH ELECTION. Mr. SOTHERON, as chairman of select committees,
Mr. WHITMORE presented a petition from 325 electors bore testimony to the inconveniences of the present sys.
of Bridgnorth, praying that the house would immediately tern, and concurred generally with Mr. Ewart as to its
issue the writ for the election of a member in the place of reform. At the same time he urged the postponement of
Sir R. Pigot, who had been unseated. the motion, in order to give more deliberate consideration
Colonel FORESTER said the discussion on Blackburn to the subject.
would be similar to the discussion on Bridgnorth. The Lord J. RUSSELL said he was ready to accept the wag-
committee appointed to inquire into corrupt practices gestion of his hon. friend who had just sat down, as to its
alleged to have been committed at Bridgnorth reported being advisable that the motion should not be pressed at
that ,-1 oseph Mason had been bribed with 10/., but without that moment. He thought it would be better to make the
the knowledge of tie sitting members ; that the petition motion at a future time, and in more general terms ; so
against one of the members was frivolous and• vexatious ; that the committee which should be appointed might not
and the other member was not duly elected. The petition be confined exclusively to the suggestions contained in the
against one member having failed, and only one case of motion of the hon. member for 'Dumfries, but might be
bribery being proved though many were gone into, he enabled to offer other suggestions which would tend to
thought the house would not hesitate to order the issue of facilitate the progress of business in that house. He
the writ. He moved that the Speaker be directed to issue quite agreed with his hon. friend that it was highly desir-
his warrant to the Clerk of the Crown, for the issue of a able, now that there were so many subjects for the consi-
new writ for the election of one member to serve in Parlia- deration of committees, that the number of members
ment for the borough of Bridgnorth, in the room of Sir R. usually appointed to sit upon those committees should be
Pigot whose election had been declared void by a select as small as possible. He hoped, at all events, that his
committee of that house. hon. friend would set an example in the nomination of
Sir J. SHELLEY said it appeared to him this case stood the committee for which he had moved, of the advantages
in a very different position to that of Blackburn. The of a small number, and that he would not propose a large
electors, by petition, alleged that gross bribery and intimi- number to consider the subject which he had brought under
dation were carried on at the last and at previous elections their notice that evening. It was highly desirable also that
for Bridgnorth, and that the public-houses were generally members should be constant in their attendance with respect
open at the last election. He thought it would be very to the subjects which they might be appointed to consider.
little use giving time, if, when a petition was sent up to It often happened that members were absent, without
the house, they did not appoint a committee to inquire into whose opinion and authority the report of the committee
its allegations. He would, therefore, move the amendment would not be looked upon as of as great value as it other-
of which he had given notice, that a select committee be wise would be. That was a question, however, with
appointed to consider the allegations contained in the peti- which it was extremely difficult to deal effectually, and
tion from certain electors of Bridgnorth (presented 10th one which required much deliberation. Very often the
March), complaining of corrupt practices at the last and day of the appointment of the committee was early in the
former elections of Bridgnorth. session, and members usually attended in very full num-
Sir B. HALL seconded the motion. hers to hear all the evidence ; and then about the middle of
Mr. BOUVERIE was satisfied that there was no reason July, it being proposed by the chairman to come to a reso-
for the appointment of ali committee, and he would vote lution upon the subject of investigation, out of the fifteen
for the motion of the hon. and gallant officer opposite, as Or sixteen members who had been originally appointed, not
he could see no substantial ground of difference between more than seven or eight generally appeared. Four or five,
this case and that of Blackburn. therefore, formed a majority, and it was upon the opinion
Mr. F. FRENCH did not intend to sanction the suspen- of those four or five members that the house was obliged to
sion of constitutional rights merely for the sake of some frame its decision. He repeated, however, that the object
problematical possibility. He thought the hon. member which his hon. friend had in view was somewhat difficult
for Westminster asked the house to go beyond what might of .attainment, and he hoped he would not proceed with
fairly be termed its ordinary powers. his motion for the present.
Mr. COBDEN wished to know if there were a dozen Mr. RICH thought the suggestions of the hon. member
members in that house who were really ignorant of the for Dumfries deserved the Serious consideration of the
true state of affairs in the borough of Bridgnorth ? There house ;he (Mr. Rich) felt assured that there was hardly a
was a little book in the hands of every member, called the member of the house who had not observed how very hastily
"Parliamentary Companion "—an authoritative book in committees were usually nominated. He did not wish his
that house. This book, after stating that Bridgnorth sent hon. friend should press the motion, however, at that
two members to Parliament, and contained 747 registered moment, though he sincerely hoped that he might ulti-
electors, alleged that the borough was in some degree under mately succeed in the object which he had in view.
the influence of the Whitmore family. (Hear.) That was Lord H. VANE thought it a matter of extreme impor-
the mild way in which Mr. Dock made up his genteel vo- tance that the members usually appointed to serve upon
lame. From what was said on oath before the committee committees of that house should be lessened. It would be
by Mr. O'Callaghan—(laughter)—no, the Hon. Mr. Cede. better, however, in his opinion, that the hon. member for
gan, the member who was unseated—(no)--the unsuccess- Dumfries should postpone his motion until he should have
fel candidate—pretty nearly the same thing. In the evi- been enabled to place himself in communication with the
deuce he found that Mr. Cadogan gave a description of the Government upon the subject.
borough of Bridgnorth. He said—" I certainly shall not Mr. E WART said if the hon. member for Malton (Mr.
stand again for Bridgnorth unless the family of the Whit- J. E. Denison) had been present when he (Mr. Ewart) had
mores assent to a Liberal being brought there. Mr. Whit- introduced the question, he would have been aware that
more could get any one into a seat for Bridgnorth ; he he excepted very important: committees, such as those sit-
could return his own footman if he Pleased." (Hear, and ting upon the affairs of India, from the same regulations
laughter.) That was stated on oath by an hon. gentleman as those which he proposed for the appointment of those
who canvassed the borough, but the hon. and learned gen- of minor consideration. In bringing forward his motion
tleman who presided over the election committee, and who his only desire had been to improve, as far as possible, the
had spoken on the subject, had forgotten to give the house interior organisation of that house. He would at once
that piece of information. That hon. and learned gentleman yield to the suggestions made by the noble lord the member
was anxious that inquiry should not be pursued into the for London as to the propriety of not pressing it prema-
conduct of the Bridgnorth constituency. The hon. and turely upon the attention of the house, and would, there-
learned member talked of bribery and treating, but he fore, postpone it until some more favourable opportunity
wanted to know whether the house could consider that re- of introducing it should present itself. • .
presentation was a reality, when it was alleged that a family The motion was then withdrawn.
living in the neighbourhood of Bridgnorth could return Mr. WHALLEY moved for a select committee to exa-
whom they pleased to that house, even their footman. mine the returns made to that house by the Inclosure
(Divide.) He would not consent to a division until the Commissioners and the Commissioners of the Board of
house had probed this matter a little further. A doubt Health, and to inquire into the operation of the Tidal
had been raised, if the committee were granted, as to Harbour commission, and to report whether any inconve-
the possibility of getting evidence. The honourable thence or any benefit has resulted from the mode of pro-
member did not know how evidence was to be not at. ceeding in regard to private bills adopted by those com-
Why, by witnesses who were to be sought out and paid missioners respectively, and whether the same can with
their expenses for attendance. A select committee of the advantage be extended to other classes of private business.
House of Commons was as good an ordeal for bringing out Mr. W. PATTEN said, he thought the same objection
facts as he knew of. He had a letter from a respectable which had been urged against the last motion also applied
person at Bridgnorth. (Name.) No ;he would state on his to the one then under their consideration—namely, that it
authority as a member of that house that the letter was would be very difficult to obtain members at present to
from a highly-respectable person, who would attend before serve on any committee which would have to inquire into
a committee. He said the reason why the petition was not any new subject. He should further say, that although he
more numerously signed was because of the t influence thought there ought to be a change in the mode of conduct-
of Mr. Whitmore, the efforts of the publicans to stop in- ing private business in that house, with a view make it
quiry, and the indisposition of other electors to publish as little expensive as possible, it did not appear to him that
their own disgrace. If this committee were granted he the motion of the hon. member was calculated to promote
would produce the letter. The letter concluded by stating that object.
that plenty of evidence of bribery* and intimidation would Mr. W HALLEY intimated that he did not mean to
be brought forward: The names and the amount of bribes press his motion to a division.
were all registered in a book, and it would be proved that The motion was then withdrawn. ,
persons had been turned out of their shops for not voting THE NATIONAL GALLERY.
as required. He believed as bad a case as that of Sudbury
Colonel MURE moved that the following gentlemen
would be established against Bridgnorth, if the facts were
should be the select committee on the National Gallery --
inquired into. They had the evidence of the Hon. Mr. F.
Colonel Mure, Mr. Labouchere, _
_Lord_Seymour, Mr. Stir-
Cadogau that Mr. Whitmore's evidence was so great that, if
ling, Mr. Milnes, Mr. Harduage, Mr. Ewart, Mr. Goulb ,
he pleased, he could even return his own footman. His
Mr. Baring Wall, Mr. Raikes Currie, Mr. Hamilton, Mr, argument was that they ought not to have members in that
house returned by
Vernon, Mr. Marshall, Sir William Molesworth, and Mr,
undue influence. He hoped, as the eyes
of the country were upon them, and the facts of bribery Charteris•
Mr. C. BERKELEY objected to the constitution. of the
easily obtainable, that the house would not let the matter
rest where it was. committee.
Sir J. GRAHAM felt with the hon. member for the
Sir J. PAKINGTON believed that it was the general
West Riding that the eyes of the public were fixed upon practice to have both sides of the house represented in
committee. In this case, with two or three excep' a
that house with reference to the bnbery at elections ; and
t
the members og'
f this committee were taken th. lon
had the motion in relation to the Blackburn election not - . -
frome other
been
member forer
been withdrawn, he should have been disposed to vote for Bide.
o
it. He would not trouble the house at any length as to Mr. W. PATTEN suggested that the hon.
the reasons which would induce him to give his vote for the South Cheshire would be a valuable addition to the cm-
issuing of the writ, because he had already stated to the mittee-
house that he should be prepared to vote, in all cestes where Colonel MURE assured the house that •
a member was unseated on a charge of bribery, for furtherof the committee it had been endeavo cl.
in the selection
inquiry into the conduct of the constituency. To give services of those who took an inter t ure
to procure the
effect to that determination, he should have voted for the ence to political consideration es in it, without refer-
motion of the hon. member for Westminster ; but the hon. made to two or three gentle 8. Applications had been
member had withdrawn that motion, and he could not do side of the house, and.
on
their
sitting on the opposite
so. It was of the last importance that the house should committee was constituted eir declining to serve, the
act with the strictest impartiality and justice in this house. as it now appeared before the
matter. The house had not withheld the writ in the case Mr. HENLEY did
of Blackburn, and it would therefore be an injustice if the as the report of th objection unimportant,
not think the for
writ was withheld in the case of Bridgnorth. If the ques- an expenditure ofe committee might lay the foundation
tion was pressed to a division, he should certainly vote for Colonel IMRE, public money.
had conceived that expenditure of public
the issuing of the writ, unless, indeed, there was anything money Would be
which removed it from the rule which had been established After a few a collateral question.
in the case of Blackburn. He admitted that after an in- Colonel words from Mr. SOTHEEON, the present.
MURE withdrew the motion for Prebe""
terval of seven days, no petition came up, and that there Mr. C. notice that he should
BERKELEY .thengave
was this special circumstance of difference in the case of move "That to the committee to in-
Brideorth, that a petition was presented. But that ' it be an instruction
for the purchase of
quire into the expenditure of money
petition was not very numerously signed, and it"
no allegation which had not been distinctly raised
contained pictures for the National Gallery-"
before invooD.
the committee and thoroughly investigated b FOREST OF WFIICN
given to
the WILso , leave was
The committee had laid the evidence before the them.
111.
On the motion of Mr. Forest of Whichwood,
which proved that competent witnesses h e —°118e) bring in a bill for disafforesting the
d bee BILL. mined—one gave the result of twenty years'a n exa- D ASSAULTS
AGGRAVATE
reading of this bill,
and the result was that no doubt could remain experience—
tion for the second .
to the power given in-
of hon. members as to the true b • on the mind On the motion
an objection • .
Taking all the circumstances dis earrng of the evidence. Mr. HENLEY urged .
tion and imprisonment without
bill of summary conviction
ration, he did not think he shOuhll)a.ssionately into sid- the
to this
he refused the writ. be acting With if i*PPeal* warexpressed his strong repugnance
justice mr. BARR e '
Mr. HUME said the house
in had agreed Power. that the bill would be nugatory if
every case in which a member to the rule that ase. FITZROY said
a further inquiry should talcs unseated was unseated for bribery with such power of appeal.
clogged, second time.
hon. member withdrew hi e . place. He was sorry the The bill was then read a
s MO •
burn election, li tion m the case of the Black- . UNIVERSITIES (SCOTLAND).
e vras for
allegations in the B • allowing the inquiry into the
On the motion of the LORD ADVOCATE, leave was
nd orth to be 'made, especially after
; to bring in a bill to regulate the admission s 4 profes-
the statement of the hoßiding, given .
that the family of the n. member for the West 0
sore to lay chairs, &c., in the Universities of Scotland, -
footman if th _ VVlitanores could return their .
EXCHEQUER LOAN FUND COMMISSION.
would not
stultify themselvesey Pleased. He trusted the house
such serious The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER laid on the
by opposing inquiry into allegations.
Mr. DISRAELI said the hon. member for the West serving that the gentlemen composing it had performed.
Riding had placed his
whole argument on one alleged
fact their office tuitousl and had_saved
gray, the country a mil-
lion and a half of money.
—that the Whit
more family Pessess ' eth
ce not considerable,
and that, as Mr. DISRAELI said that he had
but preelorainant influence in Bridge° ,
both members, charge
against these never intended to
patrons of the boron h th y could return h .
g, e ......(no—t eir foot-own.testimony to the exem officers, and he now bore
la manner in which they had
and, if they liked, their own butler
bat considerable influ- fulfilled their duties. .
man. Either result would she what
possessed. in the, I alleged they The
house then adjourned at eleven o'clock. ' j
ence the hon. gentleman
borough, So would, borevor, produce
•

. 184
. 50

the one quoted by the hon. member—an authority open to
every gentleman in the house— the authority of the public
journals—in which some circumstances were stated ,14,1,ich
had relation to the borough of Bridgnorth. It N ',Mere
stated that that a gentleman, having all the advanta f,l 1,14 r, mop
and high respectability, of long experience 'lonia-,
as a member, and who had held an eminent dal polit-44. 4: :EN
qualifications which entitled him to the co takce.4o siiii,
constituency—this gentleman did not entirety reh"thr-
hoe'. Ittli..ic
birth, Parliamentary experience, social posit lel or-the' rii4: "--,...21,„
1
fleeted lustre of his, past official position ;for hefs, he went '),!77.,('
as a candidate to Bridgnorth he proceeded tqL,pva4l,.:liim'Selri;:k7.l..-ii
of the assistance of the gentleman asserted It
h r.
ItY". overpowering influence in the boron h. 444..
man, Mr. George Hope, not only went to Brieli4ll2r .„
north, but he went as a guest-to Mr. Whitmore's mansion -1L.1310'
at Bridgnorth. This gentleman, who not only possessed
singular advantages in his own person, which other candi-
dates did not enjoy, had the addititional advantage of being
introduced to -the electors of Bridgnorth by Mr.. Whit-,
more at a public meeting, the asserted patron of the
borough. After canvassing the town Mr. Hope found he
could make no way. The opinions he expressed were
favourable to the Government, but they found no favour
with the electors of Bridgnorth, even though backed by
the influence of the alleged patron. Now, in the face of
these circumstances, he thought it was rather too much for,
the lion, member for the West Riding to get up in such a
peremptory manner in that house, using his great influence
to make the people believe that Bridgnorth was a rotten
borough in the hands of a particular family, and that elec-
tions were not free. (Hear, hear.) The hon. member for
the West Riding had not the slightest authority for his
statement, which, though endorsed with his usual facility
by the hon. member for Montrose, was proved to be utterly
void of foundation. It was stated by the authority referred
to, that the family of the Whitmores exercised some in-
fluence in the borough—some influence they did possess
(ana they deserved to possess it), and because they exer-
cised some influence, Mr. Cadogan chose to say they could
return their footman if they liked. This was the evidence'
of a disappointed candidate only, who, like all disappointed
candidates, wished easily to account for a result not alto-
gether pleasing to himself. That was all the evidence ad-
duced for the unqualified statement of-the hon. member for
the West Riding, and the hasty confirmation of the hon. mem-
ber for Montrose. The information afforded by the publicj our-
nals no one would pretend to contradict, that information
clearly proved that the asserted patron of the borough of
Bridgnorth, who had recommended a gentleman with every
qualification in his favour except that the electors could
not agree with his political opinions, could not prevail on
the borough to elect him. (Hear.)
After a few words from Sir H. WILLOUGHBY, Mr. H.
HERBERT, and Mr. BALL, the house divided—
For the motion.
Against it