The Sun.
London, England, 1862-08-02 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT

HOUSE OF LORDS.-YESTERDAY.

The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack
at 5 o'clock.

THE MARRIAGE LAW.
The Duke of RUTLAND presented two petitions from
Cambridge praying that the marriage with a deceased
wife's sister might he legalised.
CHARING- CROSS (CITY TERMINUS) RAILWAY.
This bill was read a third time and passed.
WREXHAMOIOLD, &c., JUNCTION RAILWAY
BILL.
Lord REDESDA.LE moved the third reading of this
bill.

The Earl of SHELBURNE objected to the motion.
He thought there were various circumstances connected
with this bill which would justify him giving it his
strongest opposition. Ho did so principally on the
ground that much evidence which would have been given
by the opponents of the bill before the select committee was
unfairly excluded. He concluded by moving that standing '
order No. 170 be considered in order to its being dispensed
with, and also that the bill should be recommitted, or that
any further proceeding on it be postponed for three months.
The noble lord stated that his reason for adding the last
few words to his motion was to show clearly his intention,
and to prevent its being said that the measure was got rid
of by a side wind.
The Marquis of SALISBURY defended the committee
before whom the merits of the bill were tested.
Viscount MELVILLE said he had been a member of
the committee, and he was certain they could not have
arrived at any other conclusion than that to which the
noble lord objected.
After some further discussion, in which Lord REDES-
DA.LE, Lord DENMAN, and others took part,
The Earl of SHELBURNE withdrew his amendment,
and the bill was read a third time and passed.
UNION RELIEF AID BILL.
The Duke of NEWCASTLE, in moving the first read-
ing of this bill, said he should propose that the second read-
ing be taken pro forma to-morrow (this day), and that any
discussion should be taken on Monday on the motion for
going into committee. Before going into committee her Ma-
jesty's Goverment would propose to suspend the standing
orders with the view of reading the bill a third time on the
same day, if no noble lord objected to that course.
The bill was then read a first time.
THE COTTON SUPPLY.

The Earl of SHAFTESBURY presented a petition from
the Cotton Supply Association, urging the adaptability of
India as a cotton-growing country, and the advisability of
giving encouragement to the exertions of the Madras Irri-
gation Company in. making canals and improving the navi-
gation of the great rivers in the interior of the presidency.
g
The noble earl spoke of thereat advantage which would
arise from establishing a permanent and independent sup-
ply of cotton from a British possession.
The Duke of ARGYLL admitted the vast importance of
the subject, and observed that the work of intercommunica-
tion in India was progressing so rapidly that in a short
time facilities would be afforded to the cotton planters in
that country which would enable them to make us altoge-
ther independent of America. With regard to encourage-
ment to private companies by guaranteeing the payment
of interest on their capital, he adhered to the
opinion he had formerly expressed, that it was not de-
sirable to proceed further in that direction, as such guaran-
tees had the effect of preventing the development of private
enterprise.
Lord LYVEDEN agreed in the necessity of offering in-
ducements for the cultivation of cotton in India, but was of
opinion that guarantees might in certain cases be advan-
tageously given.
After a few words from the Marquis of CLANILICARDE,
the subject dropped.
The Union Relief Aid Bill was broughtup from the Com-
mons, and road a first time. It was arranged that their
lordships should meet this day at half-past one o'clock, so
that the measure might be read a second time and passed
through committee.
The, bills on the paper were advanced a stage, and their
lordships adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS--YESTERDAY.
The SPEAKER did not take the chair until 20 minutes
past 12 o'clock, in consequence of 40 members not having
been present before.

THE NIGHT POACHING PREVENTION BILL.
Mr. HADFIELD presented a petition against the bill.

UNION RELIEF AID BILL.

On the motion of Sir G, GREY, the house went into
committee pro forma, for the purpose of considering the
amendment which had been previously agreed to, and
resumed.

On the motion that the bill as amended should be consi-
dered,

Mr. HADFIELD, in the absence of Mr. Osborne, moved
the addition of the following clause :—" That no person
shall lose his veto for a member of Parliament, or a muni •
cipal officer for any city or borough in the said counties or
other places by reason of his receiving parochial relief or
otiaer alms during the continuance of this Act."
Sir J. SHELLEY supported this clause, and contended
that the conduct of the operatives in Lancashire showed
how well fitted this class were for the exercise of their
rights of citizenship ; and he appealed to the right hon.
gentleman (Mr. Villiers), who was so consistent a Liberal,
not to press the objectionable measure of the bill.
Sir G. GREY said that the object of the bill was not
to increase the number of persons receiving relief, but to
extend the means of giving relief; and he contended that
the measure would not have the effect which was supposed
by the supporters of this clause.

Mr. COBDEN hoped the clause would not be pressed to
a division, and he thought the subject should be left to the
consideration of the Parliament in the spring. He thought
it would be a gracious act towards the men in the North of
England, who were a manly race, if Parliament at the
next session took the matter up, and he did not apprehend
that any practical injustice would be inflicted under the
provisions of the bill for the next seven months.
Mr. HADFIELD withdrew the clause.

Mr. LYGON then moved the following clause :—" The
chairman and vice-chairman of the board of guardians of
any union, parish, township, or incorporation, any part
whereof is called upon to contribute in aid to another
union, parish, township, or incorporation shall be entitled
to take part in the proceedings of the board of guardians
administering the relief so contributed, and to vote there-
upon, in like manner as if they were guardians of the poor
within the union, parish, township, or incorporation re
ceiving the contribution in aid."

Mr. VILLIERS suggested an amendment modifying the
clause.

After some remarks from Mr. Hibbert, Mr. Henley, and
other hon. members, the clause, as amended, was agreed to,
and added to the bill.

Fir G. GREY said he hoped the house would allow the
bill to be read a third time now, in order that it might be
sent to the Upper House this evening, instead of standing
over until the afternoon sitting.
Mr. HENLEY advocated that course under the excep-
tional circumstances relating to the bill.
Sir J. SHELLEY complained of the lateness of the
Period when the bill was introduced.
Mr• VILLIERS said that originally the boards of guar-
dians wi •
shed to have the subject entirely in their own
hands, and it was not until the exceptional state of the
manufacturing districts had arisen that Government felt
called on to
bring the subject before the house.
After a few -
words from Mr. S. Fitzgerald, Sir G. Grey,
Mr, Lygon, and
reard. D. Griffith,
COUNT
The bill was
str_third time and passed.
Sr
The Lords' amonttdmVEYOßS (IRELAND) BILL.
he bill was ordered f ersiito this bill were agreed to, and
HIGHLAND itoAz
adkreading.
ND
The Lords' amendments to BRIDGESi
bill
was
alalso
agreedßlL L
to,
thi
and the bill was ordered for thiraar
b
CONFIRMATION OF sials
d. BILL.
ding.
&c
This bill was read a third time aud
The sitting was suspended at a eiLe mPar. r .
past one until
six o'clock.
At the evening sitting, on the motion
that the house at
its rising should adjourn till Monday,
Mr. COWPER stated, in reply to Mr. O. Forster
that
during the recess the public would be admitt• d to 'dew the
two houses on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays,
:THE POLICY OF THE GOVERNMENT.
Mr. COBDEN, who had given notice of his intention to I
offer some observations on the administration of the noble
lord the member for Tiverton, in relation to the legislation
and state of parties in this house, stated that in what he
was about to say he was the exponent of the opinions of
many members of the house, both present and absent. He
did not profess to be a party leader, but he would say that
if a party bad no principle it was a faction and a nuisance;
whilst if it had a principle and violated it such a party was
an imposter. With respect to the so-called Liberal party, if
ho referred to what were formerly its professed principles,
he found them comprised in the words "economy, non-in-
tervention, reform ;" but if that party were now to show
itself in some great fete, with banners and insignia flying,
and their chief at their head with a flag bearing that motto,
he appealed to his hon. friends whether it would not occa-
sion considerable hilarity. On the subject of economy, how
had the Liberal party fulfilled its pledges ? It had signalised
itself as a party in power by a higher rate of expenditure
than was ever known before except in time of war. It had
not only spent more money absolutely, but had been more
extravagant relative to the numbers and the means of the
people, and its government had been the most wasteful that
hadexisted for a whole generation. For example, the esti-
mates for the present financial year for army, militia,
navy,
and fortifications, including the packet service,
amounted to
same items int`ttli.%o9oo, whereas the estimates for the
eleei,. when Mr. Disraeli was Chan-
cellor of the Each
the , were £21,610,000, or £8,306,000
less than those for
year. How, then, had it
arisen that our warlike cel'rent
6ti'latos durin those four ears
bad gone on increasing ? This g y
tion brought him
necessarily to the noble lord at thegh
ment, to whose credit he haten
holitir of. the Govern-
at.% tourtdehadialways
expenditu. The
rteLbl, n. in placing this
great and growing
been the first and foremost in all eztrav
and taking into
actortenditure
eeti h..e.
edining the last 20 ycars ;
Chi-
nese and Affghan wars, the expeditions hither
thither,

and his fortifications scheme, he believed that since the year
1840 the noble lord had cost the country at least 100 million
sterling, a price at which, with all his merits, he Was Vett
dear. How had the noble lord induced the house to aug-
ment the budget of the Conservative leader i y eight mil-
lions'? By a constant agitation in favour oft xpensive esta-
blishments.:Whether in this house, at a Lo :d Mayor's feast,
at a school or rifle corps meeting, or at a ohe had always raised the cry of danger and,
.2: emonial at the
France. The noble lord and his friends came
invasion Cinque Ports,from
1
into polder upon two grounds : first, that they would give
the country a better reform bill than gentlemen opposite,
Uid next that they would preserve us on friendly terms
with France. But they had kicked reform out of existence,
and we had heard nothing but the cry of invasion ever since
the noble lord had been in power. In consequence of the
agitation and alarm thus created the people had been pre-
vented from attending to their domestic affairs, and from
looking after economy in the expenditure of the state. Not
only had the Government wasted the public money upon
armaments, but the ground had thereby been laid for future
expenditure, the extent of which it was impossible to fore-
see; and if this were allowed to continue, the Liberals, as a
party, would rot out of existence, and become so odious that
a Liberal party would not only not be tolerated but stink
in the nostrils of the country. The hon. member then pro_
ceeded to criticise the Chinese policy of the Government,
the end of which he observed would be that China would
be left upon our hands in the same manner that India had
been. For the last seven years our exports to China had
not exceeded three per cent. of the entire exports of this
country. Yet for that miserable fraction we were going to
meddle with four hundred million of people, and pene-
trate into a territory ten times larger than France, and
in a state of complete rebellion. But what the cost of that
interference might be no one could tell. Having also re-
ferred to the measures taken by the Government for the de-
fence of Canada as involving unnecessarily an expenditure
of one million sterling, the hon.member remarked that upon
these grounds the Liberal party had no reason to congratu-
late themselves upon the close of the session. With regard
to the relation of parties in that house, he argued that it
was not an honest state of things; and for this reason, the
noble lord was not governing the country by means of his
own party, but by the party opposite. Why was it that
party had not proposed a vote of want of confidence in the
Administration? Simply because they had more confidence
in the noble lord than in their own chief. To whom was
the noble lord responsible if he was to carry on his Govern-
meat with the assistance of gentlemen opposite ? The
rnh_
lord was no doubt as good a Tory as any of them—Perhaps
better; but what became of government by Par.T. P The
s
fact was that the noble lord was irresponsible. wasHe
ehis
laa
P.e
despot as long as that state of things lasted. True, -
queurs in the press represented him as a pepul e
Minister,
but test him by his acts, how had he treated his
r
. own party ?
He ostentatiously opposed the ballot ; he declined to take
up the question of church rates ; and under his leadership
all those popular measures in which the Liberal party took
the greatest interest were going backward instead of for-
ward. Upon none of these subjects was the noble lord in
earnest ; and the result was that the whole party became
slack,s itthe e
principles they advocated lost ground, gentlemen
pe
were allowed to have their own way, and the noble
opposite
lord destroyed his own party for the future. Than that the
present state of things should continue he would rather see
himself in opposition,for he was convinced that as long as the
Liberal party remained on that aide of the house under exist-
ing circumstances they would become only the more demo-
ralised. Comparing the noble lord with the leader of the Op-
position, he agreed with those who on the other side wished
to keep the noble lord in power, that the occupation of the
Treasury bench by the right hon. gentleman was quite as
desirable for the Liberal party.
Lord PALMERSTON, in replying, said that if reform
had for the moment been set aside it was not owing to the
Government, but in a great degree to the feeling of the
House of Commons itself ; in a still greater degree to the
general feeling of the constituencies of the country, and
most eminently so to the course pursued by Mr. Cobden
and Mr. Bright. With regard to economy, the hon. mem-
ber had adopted a mistaken criterion of what it meant. He
seemed to think that it consisted simply in not spending
money ; but he (Lord Palmerston) imagined it to be the
judgment which a sensible man formed of the wants of the
moment, and the best means of satisfying them at the least

expense and with the greatest efficiency. It was, there-
fore, most irrelevant to say that in a given year the public
expenditure was so much, and in another given year so
much, unless it could be shown that the circumstances of
the country and the world were precisely the same at each
period. He contended that the measures which the Go-
vernment had taken for the national defence were approved
by the country; but he disclaimed all blame or merit for
these measures. The expense thereby occasioned had been
the result of the judgment of the Government, the house,
and the country, of what was necessary to maintain the
country in the position among the nations which it was
entitled to occupy. It was idle, then, to say that the merit
or the blame belonged to one individual or another, when
it belonged to the collective judgment of the nation. He
admitted that he had been all along anxious for the honour,
interest, and safety of the country, and it had been his
object, as far as his influence went, to persuade Parliament
and the country to guard against dangers which, if not pro-
vided for, might at any moment come upon them. He was
ready, therefore, to go to the bar of public opinion with the
hon. member
in
defence of the mccosuruts of the Govern-
ment on the ground of their merit. He denied that it was
intended by the Government to take part in the civil war
in China, or do anything more there than protect
British interests, and pointed to the neutrality which they
had maintained in the contest between the Northern and
Southern States of America in proof that they had honestly
acted upon the principle of non-intervention. He also de-
fended the steps which the Government had taken in de-
spatching troops to Canada, and recurring again to the
question of the fortifications, expressed his belief that the
more the public considered it the more they would agree
that the Government had done their duty. With regard
to the state of parties in the house, Parliament, he observed,
was no longer divided, as in former times, by a broad line
of demarcation into two parties anagonistic to one another,
and boasted that, during his three years' tenure of office, as
many good and useful measures of progressive improve-
ment had been passed as during any similar period in our
recent history. He was satisfied that the Government pos-
sessed the confidence of the House of Commons and the
country, for they had done their duty; and, having done it,
Ithey deserved the support they had received.
Mr. DISRAELI said he and those with whom he acted
were perfectly content with the present position of the
Liberal party, and he had no desire whatever to interfere
with the gradual, but at the same time rapid progress of
decomposition and demoralisation which seemed to be the
inevitable consequence of the conditions upon which the
present Administration was formed, through the influence
and votes of that self-same Liberal party. The existing
Government were formed for two purposes ; to pass a more
democratic Reform Bill than had been proposed by their
predecessors, and to extricate the country from the danger-
ous position in which the conduct by their predecessors of
our foreign relations had placed it with regard to France.
The noble lord at the head of the Government had ob-
tained the support of the Liberal party by protestations
in favour of reform. That party had made him a
Minister, and the return he made to them was con-
tumely and neglect. With precipitate haste he had
turned out the Government of Lord Derby upon a cry
raised against the policy pursued towards Austria,
and yet within a fortnight afterwards he declared that the
foreign policy of the Cabinet had been chalked out for them
by their predecessors. The noble lord had been three years
in office since the celebrated meeting at Willis's Rooms,
and what had he done ? He had given no impetus to Liberal
principles, while he had placed the finances of the country
in a more critical position than had been experienced since
1840. The Government had spent twelve millions sterling
in the most reckless manner upon the dockyards ; the navy
was in an unsatisfactory and perilous condition, and we had
drifted into a war with China, which would lead to a vast
and an indefinite expenditure. In concluding, the right
hon. gentleman referred to the state of parties in the house,
and observed that ever since be had been honoured with the
confidence of the gentlemen surrounding him, his advice to
the Tory party had been to recur gradually to the original
elements and bonds of that great political connection ; to
build up a community, not of liberal opinions, which any
!_nn. might fashion according to his taste, but of political
Pn iples ; to assert equal rights, civil and religious; to
b:Phold the institutions of the country, because they em-
bodied th
alike ire e :wants and wishes of the country—to protect us
to resistr4 individual tyranny and popular outrage—equally
ciple of a fre:"LeY and oligarchy, and to favour that prin-
security for ecZecracy which was the only basis and
of the country aurtolonal government ; to guard the honour
from that turbulent
diProtect its interests, but to shrink
general to distract thel'ralinleey which was only suited in
improvement; to light of a community from internal
administer the public treas—'4urrnosg°jat:lltaiviir.o::::: ac lolyraberut;
because it was the best security
to avour popular education,
tw lo
. protectsely o
for the rights of the
privilegeswlocalo rk igngv ernronafnintingatibSarelintdhaetht Senate. ber
prerogative
These
.Cers ettte
_C r... 0 'er n and.. the
which regulated Tory stytastehsomueldn ,evbell:tbh:`'itTePrihnacdipineos
wish that the Tory par
Dewar unless
they practised them.
forAeifgt:rposolimeye
oofbtsheervuatoivonersnmfreorimt
aMndr.
dLoIcIsTD
ky=rezoni,eit
ture, the subject dropped•
NAVAL: ADMINISTRATION.
Sir M. to naval
PETO renewed the motion relating ad..
ministration, on which the house was counted out on Tues-
day evening, contenumg that the department required
re-
form, and that, under the existing system, the public could
never receive an equivalent for the expenditure.
Lord C. PAGET
' while admitting there were some
defects in the system, observed that it would be extremely
difficult to substitute another more satisfactory. The
Admiralty, at all events, Wanted no char
e
THE SUEZ CANAL
In reply to Mr. GRIFFITH,

Mr. LAYAED stated that it.was true that 25,003 men
was employed by forced labour on the Suez Canal, but that
there werc no treaties between this country
and ___
the Fackw.

- ;;~

of Egypt which would warrant our interference in the
matter.

The motion for adjournment was then agreed to.
POACHING PREVENTION BILL.

Sir B. LEIGHTON having moved the thircrieading of the
Night Poaching Prevention Bill,
Mr. BUTT proposed, as an amendment, that the bill be
re-comulitted,

The amendment was supported by Mr. Cox, the Attorney
General, and the Chancellor of the Exchequer ; and op-
posed by Mr. Bass, Colonel Dickson, Mr. S. Fitzgerald,
and Mr. Newdegate.

Mr. W. E. FOSTER suggested that the opposition
might possibly be removed by the house consenting to go
into committee for the purpose of inserting a clause to con.
fine the operation of the measure to one year, and making
such alterations in the phraseology of the first and second
clause as would make their meaning clearer and more ex-
plicit.

- Sir B. LEIGHTON expressed his willingness to adopt
the suggestion, provided all further opposition to the
measure was withdrawn.

Sir G. GREY said that if the bill were limited to a year
the opposition, so far as the Government were concerned,
should cease.

Lord R. CECIL declined acceding to any such arrange-
ment, as it was impossible to pledge the opponents of the
bill to forego their opposition, and it was in the power of
rlrbebdayfei
dos
readB:
al u9O
discussion,
cliaor3ndt,oh:
any half-dozen members to defeat the measure if once it
were re-committed.
Upon a division the amendment was negatived by 90
to 61. ,
Mr. W. E. FORSTER declared that he would use the
forms of the house to the utmost in. order to retard the
further progress of the bill, and moved the adjourn-
ment of the house.
The house again divided, and the motion was negatived
whichritimrhaeetha
nitime,
house
eip andi
altsesdetdhi
divided
.ne
mot hnoet
tirohene-
by 88 to 35.
Sir J. PAXTON moved the adjournment of the debate ;
anotherjanecdtion
of the
motion division
questionweAftereT heee carried
ii l that h someadbt
wasyf theurtBh: bill further
29 .
And the house adjourned at four o'clock.