The Sun.
London, England, 1862-03-19 00:00:00

ORDNANCE SURVEY.

On the motion of Mr. ELLICE returns in connection
with the subject of the Ordnance Surveys in England,
Scotland, and Ireland, were ordered.

HARTLEPOOL RAILWAYS AND HARBOUR
COMPANY.

Mr. ROEBUCK, in presenting a petition from a share-
holder in the above company, stated that the company was
established in 1853, and was authorised by Act of Parlia-
ment to raise 600,000. According to the statement made
by the petitioner they had raised money to the extent of
£2,000,000, and they were now bankrupt. Other breaches
of faith were alleged, and the petition prayed that the
directors of the company should be prosecuted.
Mr. M. GIBSON explained that the Board of Trade sent
instructions to public companies to supply them with
financial returns ; when these were received they were
tabulated and laid before the house. If there was any
criminality or fraud in these returns, the part ies who made
them, and not the Board of Trade, were liable.
Mr. ROEBUCK hoped that the petition might be sent
round with the votes of the house as a preliminary to a mo-
ctou "Lird, he intended to make on the subject.
THE SLAVE TRADE PAPERS.
In reply to Mr. W. FORSTER,

Mr. LAYAILD said that the slave trade papers were in
the hands of the printer, and he hoped to be able to lay
them on the table at the end of next week.

TLIE SIKKIM EXPEDITION.
Capt. STACPOOLE asked the Secretary of State for
India Whether the despatches relative to the Sikkim expe-
dition in India in February, 1861, had been received by her
to their
Majeatva G
inovernment and, if so, was there any objection
Sirbeg laid upon the table of the house
d u eCe. "" D
said that he would have no objection to
pthe documents in question, but he had not received
them.

Mr. CONINGLIAMON ADMISSI TO SANDIIIIRST.
asked the Secretary of State for
War why admissions to Sandhurst 'were not placed on the
same
nation footing as those toWoolvrich,naniely,competitive exa-
m?

Sir G. LEWIS said that it was necessary tint t there
should be a higher scientific training for the artillery than

for regiments of the line, which was the cause of the diffe-
rence alluded to by the hon. member.
EXPORTATION OF ENGLISH SALT TO THE

CONTINENT.

Mr. J. TOLLEMACHE asked the President of the
Board of Trade what steps had been taken by the Govern-
ment to put an end to the virtual prohibition against the
exportation of English salt into Franco ; and whether there
was a prospect of the trade in that article being placed, at
an early period, on a more favourable footing,in conformity
with the spirit of the French treaty; whether instructions
had been given to] her Majesty's Minister at Brussels
to exercise duo vigilance in obtaining from the Belgian Go-
vernment the measure of justice of admitting British trade
to a full participation in any advantages granted to the
trade of any other country ; whether it is not the fact that
English vessels are still excluded from the conveyance of
salt to Belgian Ports, whilst France has acquired, under her
late treaty with Belgium, the right to carry salt to Belgian
Ports, in French vessels, and that:they alsoenjoy a discount
of seven per cent. on the duty of 275 francs per ton,
levied on French Marine Salt so imported into Belgium :
and, whether the Government had instructed Mr. Mallet,
of the Board of Trade, who is now at Berlin, to obtain per-
mission for the transit of salt through the territory of the
Zollverein, with bonding facilities in the Zollverein Ports
for salt, so as to enable this country to send that article up
the large rivers into Poland and Russia, which countries
are new, to a great extent, supplied with Austrian salt.
Mr. M. GIBSON said that already there had been a
hope on the part of Government that the duty on Eng-
lish salt introduced into France would be reduced,
and he believed that the delay which had taken place
arose from it being considered necessary by the French
Government to make an inquiry into the duty on salt in
France as a preliminary. With regard to Belgium, the
Government of that State had not treated England
in the same way that she had done other countries
in reference to this article of import; but from
remonstrances made by the Government of this
country, it was expected that the favoured nation clause
would be extended to England. No instructions had
been given to Mr. Mallet on the subject.
INSPECTORS OF SCHOOLS.

Mr. STANHOPE asked the Vice-President of the Com-
mitteee of Council of Education, if he had endeavoured to
ascertain from those inspectors of schools who reported
of the schools inspected in 1860 that the follow-
ing subjects were taught excellently, well, or fairly,
—reading in 89 per cent., writing in 90 per cant.,
arithmetic in 83 per cent.; whether they applied that
test to the merits of the teachers or of the scholars; and
whether if they applied it to the Scholars, they applied it to
the whole of the school or only to the upper classes.
Mr. LDWE said that the number of inspectors who re-
ported to the Privy Council was about 35, and it was not
expected from them that they should extend examination
to the length which was mentioned by the hon. member.
GRAND JURY LAWS (IRELAND).

Mr. BLAKE asked the Chief Secretary of Ireland
whether it was his intention to introduce a bill during the
present session for the reform of the grand jury laws in
Ireland ?
Sir R. PEEL said it was intended to introduce such
bill, but not until after Easter.
EDUCATION, SCIENCE, AND ART.

Lord HENRY LENNOX moved—" That this house
was of opinion that, for the preparation of any estimates,
and for the expenditure of any monies voted in aid of the
British Museum, the National Gallery, and all other institu-
tions having for their object the promotion of ed ucation, science
and art, one Minister of the Crown should be responsible
to this house." He contended that this subject was one that
should receive the careful consideration of the house, who
were the keepers of the public purse. There had been a
great increase in the amount of money voted for the ob.

jects to which his motion referred during the last few years,
_ . _

and in 1861-62 it was no less than £221,855. For the last
14 years the whole amount voted was X 2,266,700,
and a considerable portion of this amount was
applied to purposes over which the house could exercise no
control. He contended that it was essential to the publio
interest that such control should be vested in a body r&•
sponsible to that house. He alluded to the British Museum
which he described as being in a crumbling condition,
the National Gallery, and other institutions, which
displayed a most unsatisfactory state of things, and showed
the necessity for their supervision by a body who would be
responsible for their acts. He went in detail through the
different commissions that had reported on this subject, to
show particularly that a reform in regard to the
British Museum was necessary. He contended also
that the British Museum was not conducted in
conformity with the expressed wishes of the house on pre-
vious occasions. In support of this statement, he adverted
to different debates which had taken place when the esti-
mates were under discussion. It had been said that they
ought not to interfere with the trustees of the institution,
but it was the first time that Parliament had been squeamish
about vested rights when public interest was concerned. He

analysed the constitution of the board of trustees, ex officio
. .

and otherwise, to show that an alteration of a very sweep-
ing character should be introduced in order to render this
board efficient. With respect to the family trustees, he
said they were a must mysterious and anomalous body, for
they were appointed custodians of the property which the
ancestsrs or relatives had sold to the country. (Laughter.)
The remedy he proposed for the defects of system, misma-
nagement, and waste of public money in the administration
of these votes, was personal and individual responsibility.
Mr. GREGORY, in seconding the motion, observed that
there never was a time more apposite for considering this
subject. He maintained, adducing evidence in support of
the objection, that the whole system of trustee management
of the British Museum was faulty and inefficient, He sug-
gested a scheme for improving the organisation of the board
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
his noble friend who made this motion bad addressed the
house with great ability, and in a manner showing that he
had applied his mind thoroughly to the subject. There was
much of matter in his speech in which the Government were
disposed to concur, as tending in the right direction towards
unity and efficiency in the national departments. He would
not ask the house to negative the motion, but he would
content himself with moving the'previous question. There
had been a discrepancy between the mover and seconder.

ilis noble friend, for instance, had assailed the constitution 1
of the National Gallery, while that institution was defended
by the hon. member for Galway. In 1859 the Government
said that new arrangements were about to be made in the
National Gallery, and in 1860 those new arrangements were
carried out. The discussion had turned greatly upon the
case of the British Museum, the observations made with
respect to which were fundamentally unjust. The charge
made of general mismanagement regarding the Museum
had not been proved. The fact that a commission had sat
upon it was no proof of mismanagement, but simply showed
that improvement was sought after. It was utterly impos-
sible for any man who united common sense with common
justice, to compare the state of the British Museum, as
it was at present, with what it had been thirty years
ago, and consider its expansion in the interim, and then
say, as had been said by his noble friend, that its mode of
management was a complete barrier to any improvement.
The reading-room of the Museum, erected 'within the last
six or seven years, reflected the highest credit upon the
trustees. It was a mistake to suppose that no one was re-
sponsible for the estimates of that and other national insti-
tutions ; because, although these estimates were submitted
by the right hen. gentleman the member for Cambridge—
the only case in which estimates were moved by an inde-

pendent member—yet the Government were as much re-
f sponsible for them as they were for those of any of the pub-
lic departments, and the house had never shown any dis-
position to reduce the estimates for the national buildings,
but on the contrary, had repeatedly endeavoured to increase
them by raising salaries. Three parts out of four of the
motion had already beenrealised, because education, science,
and a- t were already under a responsible minister. Moro
remained to be done, but it would not be expedient to
achieve that end by a single stride, more especially as that
single stride might cause inconvenience and tend to fetter
the judgment of the house in the course of its future pro-
ceedings. A plan had been initiated by the executive of the
British Museum, which involved the transfer of one of the
three great departments to the other side of the building,
and this plan would shortly be submitted to the house for
its consideration and adoption. On these grounds he hoped
the noble lord would not press his motion to a division. If
he should do so, it would be his (the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer's) duty to meet it at once by moving the previous
question.
The question having been put,
Mr. CONINGIIAM agreed with the noble lord that
there ought to be a Minister of the Crown responsible for
the administration of the grants to science and art, but ho
could tot admit the many fallacies which the noble lord had
uttered in the speech which he had just delivered to the
house. Instead of no control, he thought that house had
always had A complete control over the funds granted to
those institution s. He could not agree with the noble lord
that the inefficiency in the administration of these institu-
tions was to be attributed to the existence of boards of
trustees. With respect to the management of the National
Gallery, he believed that the new system was just the old
one under another name. Ministers were merely ex officio
trustees of the British Museum, and as such had only an
individual responsibility of which nothing was known.
When the hon. member referred to the South Kensington
..aius.um. he would remind him that the plan for the Exhi-
bition building had been the result of the Art School at
Kensington. Ho could not concur on the eulogy passed on
the National Gallery, and could not think that the late pur-
chases of pictures for the gallery were all satisfactory. It
was only by bringing public opinion to bear continually on
the subject that any real improvement could be hoped for.
Mr. BLAKE did not think it fair that a grant given for
the general purposes of art education should be expended
chiefly in the metropolis. In Ireland a school which he had
assisted in establishing went on well so long as it got the
Government grant, but it had been obliged to raise its fees,
so that instead of being an art school for mechanics it had
become one for the better classes. It was a complete mis-
take to make such schools self-supporting. He hoped the
motion of the noble lord would have the effect of drawing '
attention to the matter.
Sir J. SHELLEY thanked the noble lord for bringing
the question forward. After the declaration of the Chan- •
calor of the Exchequer that 0010 alteration would QM ,