The Sun.
London, England, 1862-05-31 00:00:00

E- SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENI,

IMPERIAL PA It MAME NT.

HOUSE OF LORDS-YESTERDAY.

The Loup CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack
at the usual hour.

PRI4VATE BUSINESS.

Ccrbct's Estate ,London, Chatham, and Dover Railway
(Junction Itailway at Battersea)—Decsido Railway—Hull
and Hornsea Railway—and Scottish North Eastern Rail-
way Bills were read o second time.
THIRD READINGS. _ . _

The Dublin Borough) Fire Brigade and Legwithiel
and Fowey Railway Bilia were read a third time and
passed.

THE WHITSUNTIDE RECESS.
Earl GRANVILLE said that he should propore that
heir lordships do adjourn for the Whitsuntide recess from

Thttrsday, the sth, until Friday, tho 13th of June.
LOCAL GOVERNMENT SUPPLEMENTAL BILL.
This bill passed through committee, and was reported
without amendment. _

CUSTOMS AND INLAND REVENUE BILL.
Earl GRANVILLE rose to move the third reading of
his bill. The noble lord commenced his observations by

defending the financial policy of the Government, and
contended that they had provided for the public
service and the defence of the country in a
manner consistent with the state of affairs abroad, and
with a due sense of their responsibility not only as regards
the economic administration of the finances, but also for
the security of the State. He thought their lordships
would agree with him in thinking that the last three years
had been of a very exceptional character. The war in America
had inflicted great distress upon a most important branch of
our manufactures, but besides this we had had to provide
for a war with China, for a war with New Zealand,

and for a possible one with the Northern States of America,
which, he thanked God, had been averted, It was, there-
fore, not astonishing that, whilst, on the one hand, the
revenue had been:affected for the time by a policy which the

wisdom and patriotism of Parliament had enabled the Go-
vernment to carry out; on the other hand, the expen-
diture had been necessarily increased, but looking
at the resources of the country and the elasticity of
the revenue, there was no just ground for apprehension at
the financial prospects of the country, for he trusted the
adverse circumstances would soon pass away. Ho assured
their lordships that the Government would consider it their
duty to the country not merely for their personal interests,
to reduce the expenditure as much as possible, and he
entertained the greatest confidence that they would

soon bo able to do so. , Upon impartially re-
viewing the whole facts of the case, he was
convinced that their lordohips would come to the
cOnclusio* that the Government had acted with
discretion in dealing with the finances of the coun-

try, and ,that looking at the.:. hopeful and redeeming
features of .the prospect, theypould join in his expres-
sions of thankfulness that theeonntry was 'likely to pass
so well through a serious anddistreeilhag crisis.
The Earl of cARN-Aretttrt roskind entered upon an
able and critical eipositibiitClhe*tluicial policy of the
Chancellor of the Excheilitniti,,?; held that there had been
great
,waste, in some of dip4rtments, and that the
Minister responsible fociliitfintin.ces-litkd introduced a new
and dangerous Rolipc the ,trestrapnt of our resources.
The calculations,which hip right hon., gentleman had made
at the beginningeirery Year""With 0, retch eloquence had
been falsified at the'clei'e, ahcflidetioKivith a supplemental
estimate, was the reSidt.,:-With'llie exception of the year
1853, which he admitted was a 'ettccteseftil financial year,
_ _

our stiste, -Tinder Om adMittistration:of: Mr.' Gladstone, was
ono of,chrpnjn miscalculation qtad deihtie,ncy. In fact, his
estimates were not worth the paper on which they were
mtritten: They hadsclaceived Parliament, disappointed the
jist expectations-of thee-people, and struck-at the very roots
of public-policy: One of the Chief "arrers which the right
him. gep.tle,m4n
„_hitcl/coin-mtntced was, that he had never
franled Itis'eitiratttes with a vie* to a surplus, whilst his
eistife-nicide if'dolicg, with the finances of the country was
at made novel attdraldrming. •
I TkesDislre,of NEWCASTLE replied to the attack of the
llaall of Carnarvotti and denied that his right hon. colleague
d ittruguraietl a dangerous policy. So far from ,that, the
ancutl policy ot the last few years had been in strict ac-
cl3rdance with that whicli had received the approval of the
niostrenlighteried statesmen, and which the country had
uattitntlittly elagersed. It was
not true that the public ex-
Tpnature *is duceeaOng,sfor, upon' a comparison of the
oIa;!,1860,61 faith tlse 'present year there was a diminution
nearly three millions and a half sterling. In the onslaught
hich the noble carl had made upon Blr. Gladstone he had
eishiblted hot only inaccuracy in figures but unfairn- z in
argument. The right hon, gentleman had not always mis-
calculated his budgets, neither had he so dealt with the
finances that a deficit and not a surplus had crowned each
year's transactions. In short, the speech of the noble earl
was nothing more or less than an indictment against the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, characterised by unfairness
and bad taste, and ho believed the noble earl must, upon
reflection, feel heartily ashamed of it.
Lord OVERSTONE was seriously and deliberately of
opinion that the financial conduct of the Government had
been neither satisfactory nor safe. In his judgment they
had entered on a dangerous career of finance, under which,
by repudiating the payment of Exchequer Bills, we had
failed to meet our engagements, increased our expenses,
converted capital into revenue, and added to the public debt.
This state of things justified him in the prediction that a
rich, intelligent, and high principled people would withhold
their assent from such a policy.
Earl GREY expressed his concurrence in much that had
fallen from Lord 0 verstone, and argued that, to maintain a
national credit it was quite as important to have a surplus
as a powerful army or an imposing fleet. He feared that in
the event of a European war it would be impossible for us
to avoid getting into debt ; but he saw no reason why we
should not, in case of war or hostilities breaking out, keep
the expenditure within the income. With regard to the past
year being an exceptional year, he approved of the prompt
and vigorous measures which Government had taken in the
Trent affair, but he could not see in that circumstance any
justification for increase in the public expenditure. There
was no doubt that a repeal of taxes was a great benefit, but
it did not justify the Government in throwing the burden
upon future years. The policy of the last three years was to
expend on the largest scale, and to postpone the pressure of
payment by every spendthrift advice. Against such a po-
licy he would never cease protesting.
The Duke of ARGYLL characterised the speech of the
Earl of Carnarvon as based upon a narrow argument, and
disfigured by personalities ; and reminded the house that
when Mr. Gladstone acceded to office preparations had
already been made by Mr. Disraeli for enormous arma-
ments, and that the entire burden of providing taxa-
tion to provide them necessarily devolved upon his
right hon. friend. He described the French treaty as a
brilliant success, and contended that the remissions of taxa-
tion effected by Mr. Gladstone had conduced to the general
prosperity of the country, and been followed by the com-
plete restoration of the revenue.
The Earl of DERBY said that the object of the discus-
sion was not to cast blame upon this or that Government,
but to bring clearly and distinctly before Parliament and
the country the serious, nay alarming condition in which
by some persons and by some means the public finances had
been placed. The Chancellor of the Exchequer himself
had admitted that the finances of the country ware in an
unhealthy condition; and this being so, surely their lord-
ships were perfectly right in considering the causes of this
state of things and endeavouring to find a remedy, His
noble friend the Earl of Carnarvon had declared that the
estimates for the last two years were erroneous ; and that
when the Budget was brought forward last year civil war
had broken out in the United States; that there was con-
sequent danger to our trade, and a necessity for takitig pros
cautions against that war being possibly turned against
ourselves, which involved an expenditure of a million
sterling. The circumstances of the country, indeed, were
such that, if Mr. Gladst )ne had seen the whole extent of
the evil, he might have known that a large additional ex-
penditure would be required for which it was his bounden
duty to provide. But he did not do so, and the result of the
budgets of the last two years was that there had been a de-
ficit on the two years of five millions. His noble friend,
therefore, was not blameable for saying that the calculations
of the Chancellor of the Exchequer were essentially errone-
ous; neither was he to blame when he stated that the
Minister's miscalculations were a serious inconvenience to
the country, and had shaken the confidence of the people in
the Government. The noble earl then proceeded to justify
the course pursued by his Administration in reconstructing
the navy, and contended that that course was essential to
placing the fleet upon the footing on which it ought to stand
in reference to the navies of other powers. If for that pur-
pose they had brought forward estimates which bad led to a
deficit after a certain period, the object which they had in
view was one of sn,th paramount importance as entirely to
overbear all pnrely financial or even economical con-
siderations. Adverting to the phrase " bloated armaments'
recently used by Mr. Disraeli in the House of Commons, the
yt
o a
noble earl explained that what his right hon. friend meant
their.
was to complain of every European nation maintaining
armamentsever disproportioned to their means, and which in
country was producing financial embarrassment. It
was
feeling,Disraeli
he referredw a e in
sure, awtoounledo of complaint k
partaen and
regret, andof
by every lover of ?r.tce and friend of his country. 'What,
then, was the con
°trot lawtleeree
Ciwitteon in which we now stood P Why, at
this very moment
aitnmoto liar but intoa
more alarming situation of
state of chronic deficit, and
irninicuerarninwgahr,abmi,etuwalelyreagdreafidcuiatltlyo
paraphrase an expression which
adw
drifting,
sfe
tr
iyn g tapplied largen o t
inattimo
eimoafgpienaece for tho Minister of the Crown
to propose awl the Parliament to assent
to 0 system of
itthsci nagss iti impossible
a n

finance, the result of which had been, year after year, to
draw upon the resources of the country, and diminish the
financial reserve which ought to be kept for occasions of
great emergency. nut that was not all; for in addition to
this, this country was labouring under a pressure of 14
millions a year of war taxes, which ought tote reserved for
a period of war alone, and a great portion of which had been
imposed especially to meet the exigencies of war ; end not-
withstanding that, there was still a deficiency of 2i millions
a year. Here then was a state of things which called for
the serious and earnest consideration of Parliament, and to
meet it there were hat two courses open to them. They must
either submit to a chronic deficiency leading to ultimate
bankruptcy, or turn to that other made of equalising re-
venue and expenditure—namely, a wise, judicious, and
economical retrenchment. He, however, would be a party
to no measures by which su3ll reductions should take place
in our expenditure as would weaken the necessary defences
of the country; but he had a strong impression that we
were spending more than was required by the circum-
stances of the world, or the state of our own relations. In
concluding, the noble earl repeated—The Government have
now before them a simple choice between alternatives. Ad-
ditional taxation is impossible. Renewal of taxation is
almost equally impossible. The only alternative, therefore
to which they must look, and to which I trust they will
look, is the consideration of an unsparing, but at the same
time a judicious and a perfectly safe reduction of the public
expenditure.
Earl RUSSELL brought the debate to a close in a
speech in which ho vindicated the general financial policy
of the Government, and argued that the condition of the
country was sound and prosperous, and that there was no-
thing whatever to justify the•apprehensions of the alarmists,
especially of his noble friend on the cross benches (Lord
Overstone.)
The bill was'then read a third time and passed, and their
lordships adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS—YESTERDAY.
The SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock...
PRIVATE BUSINESS. ; ' -
The following bills were read a third time and passed :
Mid Wales Railway (Deviations, &c.), TulActri.)and Ash-
over and Birkin Lane Roads, Wellington und,Cheshire
Junction Railway, and' West Riding, Hull, arid` Grimsby
Railway. . '4'.
The Sale of Spirituous Liquors Bill was considered and
ordered for third reading.
. Several petitions in favour of the Permissive Bill for the
sale of spirituous liquors, and in favour of giving a' majority
of the ratepayers of a parish the power to prohibit the;same,
were presented.
RAILWAY CHARGES.
On the motion of Mr. HORSFALL, a -return was or-
dered, setting forth specifically certain items pf information
relative ,to eaffway traffic, &C, ni different parts of' the
United Kkigdom. ,
•BtrANNEL ISLANDS GARRISONS.
Sir F. SMITH moved
.rin address for return of the . .
non-commissioned ex-
pense' incurred in. maintaining garrisons in each of .the
Channel Islands, in the 'years 1810 and 1860 respec'tiv'ely,
numetteale strength of each garrison' in
showingjlie:amount expended for the pay iii each yearfor
missioned officers and
spetaarcifivha,rees4arera._engdi(yrnitehdn:itald .
MR. STANSFELD'S MOTION ON VIiE;NATIONAL
EXPENDITURE,
intention lo
necessity of economy =fin
is at the same time mindful
Lord ~P.A.LMERSTON gaveonnotiee of his..
movethe foll*ing amendment Mr. Stansfeld's forth-
coining inetion fen ..the national expenditnreitt That this
ehvoeursye,ddeepe!rltyr
of its obligation to provide for the security' Of ;the country
at home and the protiction.of its interefsts abrbad: 7 That
this house observes with Satisfaction the decr'ea'se which,has
let ilt
ro the'ed . state, With
already been effected in the national expetidituie and, trusts
that such further; die3hOion may be made therein as the
future' state of thingsl niitt warrant." ~- ~ .-
ALTERATION OF • TRONYMICS WiTHoUtl()
.4,T.1 1
1:1
-
10RITY. :: ~,, ,
Mr. ROEBUCK gave notice that on; going into to,M.-
mittee of supply he 14- d ask *hetliei-L Vii.!tenekliid
added to his name thY4f Herbert. wiihent the Ritiial
license; whether the LdOthamberlain ht d refused t..41..e-
-sent him at court by•the name he had assutned i,ioiithiti.
the Horse Guards had no refused him his '-epronais4ll4.i.in
the militia ; whether ho had not also been iefuiril the
commission of peace ; and 'whether all these tiiks.oeVot
contrary to law. (Great laughter.) . .., ~,,,
t.-,--. ~..,„:.,,
~ o. ..
'CHINESE EMIGR ANTS.TO NEW., SO UTII:WiLLS.
Mr. MARSH asked the Under Secretary of State for the
Colonies, an act whether bad been passed by the Legislature
of New South Walcw, impopivg a fine of £l.O on every
Chinese landed in the colony, and an annual poll tax of XI on
every Chinese resident there, and enacting other penalties
against them ; whether her Majesty had been advised to
withhold her consent from such act; and, whether he was
aware that, previous to the passing of this act, a select com-
mittee of the Legislative Council of Ntw South Wales had,
after examining witnesses, made a report wholly and en=
tirely acquitting the Chinese residing in the colony of the
charges and imputations Void]. had been made against
them ?

Mr. C. FORTESCUE said that the act in question
had been passed with reference to the imposition of a poll-
tax on male adults emigrating into New South Wales. It
was the intention of her Majesty's Government to advise
the relaxation of the act so far as related to Chinese accom-
panied by their wives, but the act had been rendered ne-
cessary in the first instance by the inequality of the sexes in
the colonies.

THE ELECTRIC TELEGRAPH.
Colonel W. PATTEN asked the President of the Board
of Trade, whether it was the intention of the Government
to introduce any measure during the present session for re-
gulanng the construction of lines of electric telegraph
on public roads and lands adjoining thereto, and whether
care had been taken to insert in all private bills having
this object clauses rendering electric telegraph companies
liable to future general legislation. He also asked
for some further explanation from the right hon. gentle-
man relative to the subject.
Mr, M. GIBSON said that one-half of the existing com-
panies had got a clause in their bills, which gave Parlia-
ment a limited power of interference at the end of 10 years.
There were, however, no powers vested in Government to
deal with the subject. He intended to communicate with
the chairman of public companies in reference to the mat-
ter. The whole subject was undergoing consideration, but
he could not say, as at present advised, that any bill on the
subject would be introduced.
THE TEST AGAINST THE WARRIOR.

Mr. LAIRD asked the Secretary of State for War if the
War-office had decided that the Horsfall monster gun
should be tested against the Warrior and other targets, and
if so, when such trial would take place ?
Sir G. LEWIS said that some experiments had been
made relative to the Warrior, but nothing specific had been
decided on the subject.
MERCHANT SHIPPING ACT.
In reply to Lord Horrnmi,
Mr. M. GIBSON said he would bring en this bill on
Monday next.