The Sun.
London, England, 1862-02-19 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT

HOUSE OF LORDS—YESTERDAY.
The LORD CHANCELLOR. took his seat on the woolsack
at five o'clock.
TILE EDUCATIONAL CODE.
Lord BELPEIt presented petitions against the new
educational code.
ARRESTS OF BRITISH SUBJECTS IN AMERICA.
The Earl of CARNARVON took the opportunity to
correct a slight mistake he had made respecting the num-
ber of English subjects he had stated the other night had
been arrested and confined in Fort Warren. Ho had stated
that there were three persons, but he had since learned
that one had taken the oath of allegiance to
America, and therefore he had removed himself
from the protection of the British Government. While
he was addressing their lordships he would take the oppor-
tunity of asking a question of the noble earl the Secretary
for Foreign Affairs, of which he had given him private
notice. He then proceeded to allude to the arrest of Mr.
Shaver, and asked whether any claim for compensation for
indignity offered that gentleman in America had been de-
manded by the British Government ; and, also, whether
there was any further correspondence, in addition to that
already presented, in the hands of the Government.
Earl RUSSELL said with reference to the case of
Mr. Shaver, that gentleman had not claimed com-
pensation, and that being so, he (Earl Russell)
had not claimed compensation for him from the American
Government. The noble earl seemed to have overlooked
that Mr. Shaver, it was said, was the medium of commu-
nication between the Northern and Southern Parties, and
that he had also conveyed revolvers to , the Con-
federates. Mr. Shaver had not said tie charge
was unfounded, and before he asked for compensa-
tion for that gentleman, he thought he ought tohave satis-
factory evidence that the charge was at variance with the
fact. If Mr. Shaver had acted in the manure described,
and had given the Confederates aid, he had acted
in direct contradiction of her Majesty's royal preclamation,
and he had no right to ask fur any compensation for the
inconvenience he had suffered. As he had said before, Mr.
Shaver had not made any demand for compensation,
and the assertion of the American Government, remained
uncontradicted. With respect to the other topis touched
upon by the noble earl, no one could regret more than he
did the lamentable position of affairs in America, and owing
to that unhappy state of affairs the acts of the Government
ought to be looked upon with great forbearance—acts
which, under other circumstances, would call for remon-
strance and indignation from this country. Mr. Shaver
had not yet demanded compensation, and therefore he did
not think that he should be justified in directing Lord
Lyons to take any steps in the matter, but in the event of a
claim being made, satisfactory evidence would be required
that he had not acted in the manner described.
THE TAXING MASTERS IN DUBLIN.

The Marquis of CLANRICARDE wished to ask whe-
ther it was intended to fill lap the office of a third Taxing-
Master in the Court of Chancery in Dublin; and also what
progress had been made in collecting judicial statistics in
Ireland ?
Earl GRANVILLE was understood to say that commu-
nications were now passing between her Majesty's Govern-
ment and the Government of Ireland, in reference to the
appointment of a third taxing master, and that when they
had come to some decision on the subject he would state
the fact to the noble marquis. With regard to the other
question, a gentleman had been appointed to collect the
statistics, but it was expected that they would net be com-
pleted until next year. Ihe noble earl was nearly inaudi-
ble in the gallery.
THE OFFICERS OF THE INSOLVENT DEBTORS
COURT.
Lord CHELMSFORD, who had a question on the paper
with reference to the non-payment of the salaries, &c., of

• he officers of the Insolvent Debtors Court who had been
transferred to the Court of Bankruptcy, tinder the provi-
sions of the Bankruptcy Act of last session, sail he had
given this formal notice of his question in order to call the
attention of his noble and learned friend on the woolsack to
it, and that he might give such an explanation as the case
deserved, it being one of very great hardship on the officers
referred to, Under the act of last session the Insolvent
Debtors Court was abolished, and by two clauses the clerks
and officers of the court were transferred to the• London
Court of Bankruptcy, and by two other clauses, viz., the
33d and 36th, provision was made that the salaries and
allowances of the officers should be paid as under the old
law—they were to receive the full amount of their salaries
from the fund referred to in the Act of last session. No
one could read the section to which he referred without
seeing that it was the intention of the Legislature to trans-
fer to these transferred officers the amount of the salaries
and allowances which they had previously received ; but
although several weeks had elapsed since the previous
quarter's payments became due, they still remained un-
paid. This circumstance had caused Serious inconvenience,
not to say suffering, to the parties and their families. He
would mention two instances of the hardship which had re-
sulted from it One of the officers in question incurred a
debt which he agreed to pay by instalments, and thought
the means he had of doing so was by receipt of his salary.
Not receiving it he was unable to meet his engagement,
and his creditor, not believing that it was his inability to
pay, but considering that it arcse from dishonesty on the
part of his debtor, put an execution upon his goods. The
other was the case of a man who had insured his life for
the benefit of his family, and was unable to pay the pre-
miums in consequence of his salary not being paid, and the
consequence was that his insurance dropped. Those parties
were entitled to the sympathy of their lordships. (Hear,
hear.) He hardly expected to hear that, if the fund had,in
consequence of the change from insolvency to bankruptcy,
run dry, the officers were to be deprived of their salaries
and allowances. He was satisfied that their lordships
would feel that the case of these parties was entitled to
their consideration. .(Hear.)

The LORD CHANCELLOR said he was much obliged
to his noble and learned friend for affording him an oppor-
tunity of making a statement upon the subject. He could
say with sincerity that nothing had occurred since the
passing of that Act of Parliament which had given him so
much vexation and caused him so much pain as to find the
position in which the cfficers of the Insolvent Debtors Court
had been placed. It had arisen from the fact that words
had been used in the act with one view and to express one
object, upon which the clerks of the Insolvent Court had
naturally put a different construction, and one which had
given rise to expectations which unfortunately he had not
the means of meeting. The difficulty arose in this way.
The officers of the Insolvent Debtors Court were paid partly
by salaries and partly by fees. The salaries were paid by
an annual grant voted by Parliament, but they were very
inconsiderable as compared with the emoluments which
the clerks represented they had received from fees.
The annual vote made by Parliament was expressed to
be for the purpose of discharging salaries, certain allow-
ances, and certain compensations, and with a view to
entitle the clerks to have the benefit of a continuance of

that vote the 30th section was framed. The language
•of that section was very large and extensive
in the commencement. It gave to the clerks the:full amount
of the salaries, remunerations, allowances, and compensa •
tions which they then respectively received. These wezt
large words no doubt, but unfortunately they were limited
in a manner inconsistent with their ordinary meaning by
the following words. They were to have this benefit, but
" out of the same fund, and payable in the same manner in
all respects as if the act had not been passed; and for such
purpose the annual sums now payable out of the monies
voted by Parliament for tho use and purpose of the Insol-
vent Court, shall be paid in future to the credit of the ac-
countant in bankruptcy." The unfortunate effect therefore
was that these salaries, allowances, and remunerations were
to be derived out of a fund which was limited to a fund which
was itself limited to salaries properly so called, and allow-
ances and compensations. The difference between salaries
and fees was so great, that while the sum voted by Parl a-
ment was about £6,000, the sums claimed by the officers
amounted to £20,000. If the ch rks relied on that particular
section as giving them a perpetual annuity to the amount
of the fees they hsppened at the time to be in receipt of, it
was impossible to suppose that such could be intended. It
'was at variance with all former principles of legislation,
tvhich was to ascertain the value of an office about to be abo-
lishedt and to give appropriate compensation. All ho (the
ra_d, Chancellor) could do was to apply the money voted by
could to the payment of salaties, and he regretted he
perfectly tdo more. If the operation of the clause had been
wunderstood on the part of the officers they unques •
tionabl
on the other
re
made some claim for compensation; and
that they were todi;:f he understood—which he did not—
should undoubted) paid by fees and not by salariesonly,he
have provided for them some means of
pay
thieitwas these gentlemen are left with
scuompeieennstatiteen.
vrsalaries, properly so called, but
not with sufficient te
theeivide for a salary at all equal
to that which, from
reral sources referred to,
they were in receipt of
time the act came
into operation. The other the
nation, because by the 26th „eit: required RAMA pypla-
corturtcertain funds which
were in the Insolvent Debtors
were directed to be
transferred to the Court of Bankrupt,
be applied to 1
from
detray salaries
three several purposes, one of which WL,tto
the one court
of clerks and other persons transferred fro
to the other. That particular fund had aceurn
unpaid dividends, which might be claimed ate Y ulkt?d from
the interest on the unclaimed fund had always beetninitre' but.
by Parli men tas applicable in part payment; of salaries,
and
accordingly the annual vote had always been worded in this
way :—"Xi,I7G is voted for payment of salaries, and for
payment of certain allowances and certain compensations,
but it is reduced to that sum by deducting from a larger
sum that would be the amount of the salaries, the probable
amount of the interest on Exchequer Eills, purchased with
unclaimed moneys, and applicable under a particular statute
in part payment of salaries." Such was the wording of the
last vote. The intention of the 26th section was to trans-
fer the principal sum to the Court of Bankruptcy, because
the creditors whose dividends were unclaimed should apply
in future to that court for payment. These officers had
appealed to him to pay them the residue of their claim out
of that but it was impossible he could do so. The
utmost he could do was to apply in payment of their sala-
ries the annual BUM voted by Parliament. The subject
had been one of great anxiet to him and he had directed