The Sun.
London, England, 1862-05-15 00:00:00

ground that, in the opinion of the great body of the
people what might have been just as wise to establish a
tew hundred years ago was not just or wise at the present
time when the times and circumstances had ale gether
changed. (Cheers.) He could have wished that the
right hon. gentleman had been more explicit in some of his
declarations. He said that in the Established Church
there was a general interest. The whole community was
interested in her, but while he admitted that the general
community was interested in the Established Church so far
as Christianity was preached in her, yet he was no more
interested in that respect in the parish church than he
was in the Wesleyan Chapel or any other Dissenting
place of worship. (Cheers.) It was not wanted to diminish
the number of the Established Churches or their useful-
ness, all they wanted was that tho Voluntary principle
which had in other respects done so much for tho
Church should hive fair play in this matter
of church rates. He wanted those who opposed the abo-
i lition of church rates to be explicit on the subject, and to
come boldly forward and say that the landed aristocracy and
the upper classes of the country who had such influence in
the Parliament and the country were too poor to maintain
their own church. (Cheers.) If they are not, why persist
in maintaining a system which was unsuited for the present
times and circumstances. He had no hesitation in saying
that were they to leave matters exactly as they were at pre-
sent except the power to enforce the rate, they could by
voluntary means realise a larger amount of money in the
shape of rates than they did at present, while all that heart-
burning and bad feeling which existed on the subject would
be done away with. As to the Government taking up
the question, he considered that they were belled to do
EhGis
onceern said,n s edeumriinngdisLpoorsdedAtboertdoeuecnh,s the; nio: but it would seem that the more hoe, members
failed Government
me
in succeeding in settling great questions the more the
friendhioa
tf
Government,A he had no doubt that Government would go on well enough
so long as it kept clear of politics—(laughter)—and he must
say that the present Government •
were getting somewhat
into the same state. (Laughter.) If the
y gave up politics,
and cared nothing for carrying such g measures as this, then,
he said, they bccupied their positions on the Ministerial
bench as—what should he say—
superior clerks. (Loud
cheers.) He asked them, then, in a session in which no-
thing had been done, except spending money away from the
hard earnings of the people, to make it famous for one day
by supporting the present measure, and thereby carrying
out one of the greatest principles in the Christian faith, of
"doing unto others as they wished others to do to them."
(Loud cheers.)
Sir J. FAKINGTON contended that the Church of
England was essentially the poor man's church in a much
wider sense than was the dissenting chapel, for ho could
always get accommodation in her free which he must pay
for in the latter. He joined heartily in the wish that this
question should be settled, and he believed there was not a
churchman or dissenter who did not believe that the time
had now arrived when it ought to be settled in some way or
other. He was sure, however, that the question would
never be settled by thelegislation of private members, and
he therefore considered that the Government ought to take
it up. The right hon. gentleman proceeded to refer to the
manner in which the Church of England was treated by some
of the extreme section of Dissenters, some of them charac-
terising her as an engine of Satan, and contrasted with
these insulting insinuations the conduct of other Dissenters,
representing the conduct of the one as being tyrannical and
intolerant, while the other was Christian and friendly. It
was impossible too much to regret that the question should
be embarrassed by the ravings of this class of Dissenters,
The object of these parties was Jo undermine the Chuteb.
They cared not for the conscientious scruples which some
people entertained to the payment of this rate, but they
wished, by means of the abolition, to attack and undermine
the Church, and their conduct had secured its reward, for
they had seen in the divisiens of that house the altered
state of public feeling respecting it. (Hear.) He hoped,
however, that the conciliatory conduct of the Church of
England, and some of the more moderate of the Dissenters,
would be the means of bringing about a satisfactory settle-
ment of the question. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. DILLWYN supported the measure, stating while
he should be glad to see the Government come forward
and take up the question, he must say that there was little
encouragement given them to do so by the present state
of the question. If there was to be any compromise!,
it ought to come from the Opposition side of
the house, as they had been the great opponents of every
attempt to legislate on the matter.
Mr. DISR.eELI said gentlemen on his side of the house
had been remanded of the length of time this mater had
been under discussion in the house and the 23 measures
which had been introduced respecting it. If that
showed anything, ho considered the meaning of it
to be that the question was not ripe for discussion, and
that there were no abuses attaching to it which required
remedy. But the fact was that the pretext for legislation,
was not the cause of the movement, for when the treeth
came out it was found that the destruction of the
Church of England was the avowed object, and that
being the case, he thought no one would wonder at
the length of time which the question had 'oeen under dis-
cussion. He had always maintained that no satisfactory
settlement of this question could le come to except by
agreement, and he was of that opinion still. Oa
that point he agreed witl2, the hon. member for Birming-
ham, because the ori-Kmal object was now avowed, and the
Government having sanctioned it could have no difficulty
in taking it '.p. Ho emet also say with the hon. mem-
ber for Birmingham that the Government seemed back-
ward in taking up thcso public measures, and the ques.
tion of church rates was of all others one they ought to take
up, for he found the other day that a member of her Ma-
jesty's Government presided at a meeting of the Libe'.
ration Society, which was probably an induction of the
future policy of the Government. (Cheers.) He was not per-
haps a Cabinet Minister, but he was at all events acquainted
with Cabinet secrets. (Cheers and laughter.) He ob-
jected to the limited area in which the right hen. gentle-
man the Secretary of State for War had placed this
question. The right hon. gentleman had referred to A •
measure introduced into the other House of Parliament by
the Archbishop of Canterbury, but this was a political
and not a religious question, and being so it was not
a question for arehbishops but for statesmen to
consider. There was involved in the question the principle
of an Established Church, the lights of local governments,
and the hereditary privileges of the great mass of the
people, and he must say he never wont to a division with
greater confidence of success. (Loud cheers.)
Sir J. TRELAWNY having briefly replied,
The house divided, when there appeared—
For Sir J. Trelawny's bill
Against it
Majority against the second reading —l
The announcement was received with much cheering on
the Conservative side of the house.
The amendment was then put as a substantive motion,
and upon the house again dividing there appeared—
For Mr. S. Esteourt's amendment, . 288
Against it
Majority for the amendment —l7
The bill is consequently lost, and the announcement of
the result was hailed with loud cheers from the Oppose.
tion benches,

LONDON AND SOUTH- WESTERN

RAILWAY.

MEETING-(THIS DAY.)

A special general adjourned meeting of the directors and
shareholders was held to-day at the company's offices, at
the Waterloo station, Captain Mangles in the chair.
The CHAIRMAN said of the three bills that stood over for
consideration at their last meeting only one was in a suffi-
ciently forward state to be submitted to the shareholders
this day. That bill gave power to the company to
authorise the construction of a railway from Weymouth
to the Isle of Portland, an I to extend the Wilts Somerset
Railway to the Harbour. The line would be about four
miles and a half in length ; but including branches and,
tramways it would extend to about six miles. By the
agreement already in existence it was arranged that the
be
line should be constructed by an independent company, and,
when completed that it should
Western and South Western leased to the Great
companies, to be
held by them conjointly, each comp
any paying
£2,250 per annum for the same, free of all deductions.
Theoctlaa the irmsaaindoboinu.claded by proposing a resolution, approv-
ing The motion was then agreed to unanimously, and the
meeting was then further adjourned until the 29th inst.
A special general meeting was then held to consider a
bill to authorise the London, Brighten, and South Coast
Railway to make certain new lines of railway in the coun-
ties of Surrey and Sussex.
The CHAIRMAN explained that the object of the railway
was to improve the connection with the West London Ex-
tension, Crystal Palace, South Western, and London and
Chatham and Dover lines, and to enable the South Wes-
tern Company to make arrangements for working over
those lines. The bill was merely permissive, there being
at present no arrangements going on with those companies.
A formal resolution was then submitted to the meeting,
approving of the bill, which was agreed to unanimously.
The CHAIRMAN said the other bill, No. 2, which was:
for the making of a railway and harbour in the county of
Devon, to be called the Sidmouth Railway and Harbour,
was not yet in a sufficiently matured state to be submitted
to the consideration of the proprietors.
The meeting then adjourned.

It is stated that the directors of the Ottoman
Bank have determined that 25,000 shares, of £2O 04) with
a deposit of £2 each, shall be forthwith issued st par, the
option of taking such shares being offered, 133 the first in-
stance, to the shareholders registered in ll'e company's
books on the 6th inst., the day of the specialgeneral meeting
which authorised this issue, in the proP°rtion of one new
share to each old share, and that tboe now shares shall
participate pro rata in the division of profits as from the
30th of June, 1862.
" PRETTY HORSE BREAOIts"
Independence says:—" Acts
IN PARIS.—The
Paris correspondent of the
have occurred at the Bois a°
Boulogne which, without pea-
ce, have attracted the notice of
Hosing any great impore°l
who move in a certain sphere,
the authorities. Lacli°'
luxuriantly recliniof in splendid equipages, from which,
with fastidious air* they seemed to look eontemptuoualy on
4 honest i overt," have been hissed by the promenaders.
Angry
groups of people surrounded the carriages, and the
prudent to beat a retreat with all the speed.
ladies deemed it
at
which 003 horses would carry them. Similar scenes took
place at the races. The ladies there met with a bad recep-
tion from the people. Stones were thrown at one of them,
who seemed more cool or more daring than the others, and
&Jose attitude looked like a provocation. These scenes
often repeated, and taking place even in the minor theatres,
have awakened the attention of the police. But what is to
be done; for pet sonal liberty must be respected ? The police
authorities, I understand, have been studying the question,
and among the reports in circulation is one which says that
lists of
proscription are to be drawn up against the most
recalcitrant of these daughters of Eve, and that those who
have come from the provinces aro to be sent back to their
respective departments, with an injunction that they are
not to return to Paris without the permission of the pre-
fect of police. Those who are foreigners will be conducted.
to the frontiers with all the respect due to their sex, if not
to their position. lam aware of the sensation which this
news will produce when the Independence arrives in Paris
to-morrow."