The Sun.
London, England, 1801-06-11 00:00:00

. . . _
for ireland—='-306,600i. were since
now
for the
sistance...of Portugal,-: so that now theie retnained
.out of dfat part of alit. 'Vole. of Credit, which was
applicable to Great 'Britain, ioo,ool.
'Mr. TIERNEY said,- that the Right Hon: gen_
tleman who preceded the present-Chancellor of the
Exchequer in Officf (Mr,PrTT) had, the time of pro-
posing the last Vote of Credit, expressed some con-
cein that there was no possibility of-sending out any
money to. Portugal ; but now the Matter stood thus
--the original Vale of Credit proposed by the late
Minister for this year was Beio,toOoh.; that was
500,0601.- for England,- and 300,0061. for Ireland ;
-arid- now it Was proposed to vote Two Millions
mare. Now' the Right Hon. Gentleman said, that
this was not to be striftly applied to.the Nary—if
nor, why enter into a detailed account ? By this it
appeared that's Vote for one purpose might be ap-
plied to another, and. this was his constant objeaion
to a Vote of Credit ; for we voted large stuns of
money, Witham knowing to what purposes they .
were to be applied. The Right- Hon`. Gentle-
man had had gfeat' credit with the Mouse for
having _proposed a Vote of onlyso,oool. for Secret
Service this year ; but how were the House to know
that part of this money now pi•op6sed. to -be raised
upon a Vote 'of Credit, might not be employed .to
make good tile deficiency of a Vote of Credit ? No-
body would .knoW this without much more explana-
tion than the Right Hon. Gentleman had yet given ;
these wereihe things that made him tinable.to pur-
sue, the inclination he 1111 to support Ministers.
The CIIANCRLLOR Iithe'EXCHEQUER *said,
that the TWo Millions now proposed Ito be voted,
cortered the 300,0001. for 'Portugal, so that.the
fereoee was not now to be computed as between
2,503,0001. as stared by the Hon. Gentleman; but'
as between 2,300,0001. and 800,0001. 'for the
309,0901. were comprized in the 2,000,0001. The
Right Hon. gentleman alluded to (Mi. Pir'r) took
credit for 'only 800;000l. thit was soo,oool. for
Great Britain, and 300,0001. 'for Ireland. He did
not imagine that the 'Right Hon. Gentleman then
foresaW the Subsidy TO, Portugal, and whether he
did or not, certain it was that he could not know
the amount ; hut the circa was the same us to this
Vote, for it was not In Contemplation, to vote the
rernainder of the soo,oool.
, Mr. 7IERNEY said, that according to the pre-
sent statement, there would not be, out' of the whole
Vote; for the real purpoSe of supplying any exigency
that might. arise, (the true spirit upon which a Vote
of Credit ought to be adopted) any more than about
100,0001. a stem that would, he feared, be very in-
sufficient.
. _ _

Mr. STEELE said, that from sonic
,things which
had been said by the Hon. Gentleman who spoke
last, it was'necessitry for 'him to explain 'someinat-
ters. Thelion. Gentleman bad stated stich -objec-
tions as he had been in the habit of doing7-The meant.
fair objeZtions—that estimates were . stated for set_
vices for which they, were not ultirnat,ely applied—
Now pn. the subjed of Estimates he could s'peak
from experience the difficulty of fraMing an Esti-
mate at the beginning of a Session .was so-much be-
yond what any, Member of that Meuse, who' had
not been conversant with the official part of it, and
had not the means of lowing it, that . it. might be
fairly said to be beyond
.t,he conception of such a
person; so that 'there ought to -be alloWanceS made
for inaccur4cies- in statements before hand, by way
of estimate, when they came .to be compared with
thefafts ,as :they afterwards appeared.
,He was no
fdypme ..fpr ;pity misrepresentation to the House,
SIMI' Ali proposing a vote for, one thing when it
was intende4 fOr •ariother ; so .far from it, that lie
weuhi.jdin in reprobating in the Strongest trms
such'ondna. As to the 'Army, the Estimates on
them were .ogectained without difficulty, for the
estatlishments Were.,gxed and ascertained, at , least
neatly4o, and so they were always correctly stated.
—The only subjea• of variation came- oat of the
,Fxtraordinary Service. It was well recolleaed,
that until a late period indeed the pra6liee vas
continued, cif .neat, voting voting any inoney for Extraur-
diniries, but of paying, Without. any authority of
Parliarneti,t, Pfterwartis corning to Parliament
,fpr a *Ote. to cover the expense which had been
thus ineurred-that was the old pradieeit was arn
imprpper pradiee;,and
,his Right. Hon;Friend
Ptyr) hait'rlone eyery
.thing in his power, to reniedy
it. Why then should large sums .of nioney.be called
'for, which were not included in any Estiinate His
ans‘yei.was, because the demands arose from ex-
rradtdinary Oeca.shins, the amount. of Which vary so
often that it is impossible tp form before-hand a
correh Estimate. Suppose Miniiters Were to,cOmc
forward with an Estimate, and "to state, that. for
such a' head of Service they wanted so much ; and .
such another- so much, what.' would be `the conse-
quence ? :Why, if 'afterwards the raft should turn
out pthetwise than was 'foretold, Gentlemeniwould
say, ‘0 We took it for granted that you 'wanted. so
much money .for such a service, and we voted it for
you, and so much for another, and we voted it for
you ; but now we and that you have ernploYcd it
for porposes for which it was never intended to have
been voted by us,,and therefoie this is a misappli
cation of the public money.".;-He-had- knowti these.
charges made against Ministers, in his opinion,
always unjultly ; but they had'been exhibited, and,
they had. the, effectof creating some prejudice, More,
or.lesS against Estimates, they had peen stated.
There was no remedy for thii,,eXcept putting *under,
one head the Extiaordinaries: of the -Army, and
nicking; Ministers:Ministers 'afterwards to account for every
thing that had aeluatly'been expended.—T wo
mil
lions add. an halt had 'for two Sessions been‘stated as,
Extraordinaiies of the Army-They had- shied
come. before the House in detail) and they -
hat
aptpepred very nearly actor:ln-1g to the 'accoung
been :of 'thern. The 'faiiese,
'accounts' were given that the nature of the' thing
WOuld Col)npll!ints Were 'indeed made;ithzii
the dates 'of 'sonic- Fartetits were. nOe.aceurately
stated., Now he .would submit to the HOUSE., -whet
tiler theie-appeaiiiiin air 'parr Of thii'.'a desire t 9
, conceal anr,thing ? The .Expenditure to which till
objcaion .10J want 'Or
.datel appli wis =tire Ex -
Penditure. of nine tenihs of the year, applied•td
.serv}ces in the West Indies, and payments made .oe
thht account;' and they were made on Bills of Ex:.
an chgelt,and they were of so great an amount, and sit)
1111111LIOLIS,1 thie *ilia they were dated
tat be ter frith, csr, tic days_ on wikiellthey