The Sun.
London, England, 1865-05-20 00:00:00

THE ROMAN CATHOLIC OATH.

In answer to Sir B. BRIDGES,
Mr. MONSELL said he would proceed with this bill on
Wednesday next.

MEDALS.-THE BOMBAY PRESIDENCY.

Mr. W. MILLER asked the Secretary of State for India
if the officers and men of several corps, regular and irre-
gular, employed in the Deccan and elsewhere, and who
wore actually engaged against rebels and mutineers, had
not received the medal.

Sir C. WOOD said he was not aware that there wore any
persons who were entitled to those medals who had not
received them.

AMERICA.

Mr. D. GRIFFTH asked the First Lord of the Treasury
whether his attention had been drawn to the proclamation
of the President of the United States offering $lOO,OOO
for the arrest of Mr. Jefferson Davis ; and, whether her
Majesty's Ministers were prepared to make any representa-
tions to the Government of the United States in reference
to the treatment of the Southern leaders.

Lord PALMERSTON—The only answer 1 can give to
the question of the hon. gentleman is that her Majesty's
Government have no intention to attempt any interference
with the internal affairs of America. (Loud cheers.)

ATTORNEYS AND SOLICITORS' CERTIFICATES.

On the order for going into committee of supply,
Mr. DENMAN moved that in the opinion of the house it
was just and expedient the annual duty paid by attorneys
and solicitors on their certificates should be abolished. This
tax of £9 a year in London and £6 in the country, he de-
nounced as unjust, anomalous, and arbitrary. lie examined
the history of the duty to show that it was imposed by Mr.
Pitt as a war tax, on the suggestion of certain members of
the house, in 1785. The whole amount produced was only
£90,000, and he contended that, for that sum, it was not
fair to retain such a tax permanently in the present condi-
tion of the country.
Mr. VANCE seconded the resolution.

Mr. HUNT objected to the proposal of the resolution at
this time. Many members of the house were largely in-
debted to the services of attorneys for their seats. They
wore now within a few weeks of a-genera.l election, and he
thought it an improper time to discuss such a question.
Mr. HUMBERS TON supported the resolution.
Mr. BLACK and Mr. CLAY briefly addressed the house,
which appeared impatient for a division.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER explained
the present Parliamentary position of the question, and
again protested against an attempt to pledge the future
action of the house by an abstract resolution with regard
to any tax. The time to have proposed the removal of the
the duty was when the resolutions of the Budget were
before the house. Then some substitute for the tax might
have been suggested, or the amount of other remissions
reduced. He was no groat admirer of such duties, but
there was a great difference between imposing a duty of
this kind for the first time and abolishing it when it had
been paid for several generations. He denied that the case
of the attorneys could be separated from those of all the
other callings paying an annual duty for a license to carry
on a business. Why should attorneys be excepted, and
not auctioneers and pawnbrokers ? They ought not to
make an invidious selection of the most wealthy and power-
ful profession. He had never declared that the duty should
be permanent. He declined to speculate on the perma-
nency of the duty. Some taxes must be maintained ; but
this duty was fairly open to the consideration of the house,
though nct under present circumstances.
The house then divided. The numbers were—
For the resolution
Against it 143
Majority
A short discussion was raised by Sir J. HAY, who called
attention to the petition of the widows of warrant officers
in the navy, and moved " that the cruel exception which
deprives of any pension those who became widows prior to
1860, is not approved by the house."
Sir J. ELPILINSTONE and Admiral WALCOTT spoke in sup-
Port of the resolution.

Lord C. PAGET admitted there wore cases of hardship,
but could not undertake to apply to the Treasury to grant
a °,O. ?to of money for thorn.
of 2
'-'n a division, the resolution was rejected by a majority

lir. , GOVERNMENT OF INDIA ACT.
'''' DUFF
the informationcalled attention to the manner in which
required to be laid before Parliament by
the Government
Mr. KlNNAntri India Act was supplied.
thought the spirit of the law was not
complied with,
and suggested
not draw up a sn that if the Government could
thee Indian documents, it might
at least order a largernnuary lbr of copies of the reports printed
in India to be laid on the table of the library.
Sir C. WOOD was understood to state that, for use, the
text of these documents Was better thanßo a mere summary.
ARMY OFFICERS'
Col. NORTH asked if the GovernmentSE hadB arrived at
any decision as to the exemption from I
Louses occupied by officers of the army in local taxation of
the performance
of their official duties.
Mr. F. PEEL said the officers' houses in Chelsea Hos
pital were rated under a local act, and the only question
was whether the rate should be paid by the Government
or the officers themselves. On the whole it had been
thought better it should be paid by the resident officers.
LUNATIC ASYLUMS IN InELAND.

In reply to Mr. M'EvoY,
Sir R. PEEL stated that the Government was building
additional asylums in Ireland for the reception of danger-
ous lunatics and insane persons now confined in gaols and
workhouses.

The first vote
Pproposed was for £76,000, to defray the
expense of the construction of certain harbours of refuge.
Mr. A. SMITHasked for some oxplanations respecting

the state of the works connected with the harbour of re-
fuge at Alderney.
Mr. F. PEEL said the works had been dam,. dto the
extent of £15,000 in a recent storm; and that moiety
of the damage would have to be made goo 1 ' y the con-
tractor and the other by the Government.
Tho vote was then agreed to, as was next vote of
£49,930 for works at Holyhead Harbour ald Portpatrick,
and a vote of £70,677 for the erection and maintenance of
buildings in charge of the Public Works Commissioners
of Ireland.

On the vote of £3,000 to complete the construction of
the new records buildings at the Four Courts, Dublin,
Sir C. O'LOGHLEN, understanding that it was only
intended to complete a portion of the interior of the
building at present, urged that it would be much more
economical to complete the whole at once.
Mr. F. PEEL said it was only deemed necessary to com-
plete four-tenths of the interior at present.
The vote was then agreed to, as was a vote of £Bl3 to
complete the works at the National Gallery, Ireland.
On the vote of £19,474 for erecting and maintaining cer-
tain lighthouses abroad,
Mr. H. SEYMOUR complained that the Indian Govern-
ment made no contribution to the maintenance of the
Basses lightship which was stationed off the Island of
Ceylon, and did good service to all ships passing up to the
Bay of Bengal.
The vote was agreed to.
On the vote of £4,000 for the erection in the Isle of Man
of a building for the reception of criminal and other
lunatics,

Mr. A. SMITH reminded the committee that the vote
was rejected last year, and asked for explanations.
Mr. F. PEEL said the vote was justified by the assur-
ances given by the Home-office in 1850, 1858, and 1859, to
the authorities of the Isle of Man, that the Treasury would
boar half the expense of the erection of such a building.
Mr. FINLAY said this was a local tax, and he did not
see why the Isle of Man should be put on a different foot-
ing from Scotland, and why it should be exempted from
the payment of this sum, and he therefore moved the rejec-
tion of the vote.

Lord J. BROWNE said they were building a lunatic
asylum in Mayo, and he should like to know why there
should be any difference between Ireland and the Isle of
Man.

Sir G. GREY said that, independently of the expectation
held out to the island, the committee ought to bear in mind
that this asylum was for criminal lunatics, a class of lunatics
which wore not provided for either in England or Ireland
from private sources.

Mr. Alderman SALOMONS thought the difficulty might
be met by a partial reduction of the vote.

Mr. O'REILLY said that if individual members of an
administration could pledge the faith of the Government
that a vote should bo passed, that committee might as well
abdicate its functions at once.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
the late Sir G. Lewis, and subsequently the Government of
Lord Derby, had promised to recommend the vote to the
house ; but, of course, no Administration could presume to
bind the house beforehand in regard to any vote.
After some further discussion, the committee divided—
For the vote
Against
Majority

The vote was then agreed to.
A vote of £20,000 for defraying the charge of erecting
court-houses and offices for sheriffs' courts in Scotland was
also agreed to.

A sum of £27,000 having been proposed for contributions
in aid of local assessments for the relief of the poor in re-
spect to certain descriptions of Government property,
Mr. M'MAHON objected to the vote, as he thought it
was an objectionable practice to supplement the rates of
tho metropolis by public grants.
Mr. Alderman SALOMONS supported the vote, as he
saw no reason why the Government should not pay rates
for the ground they occupied.
Mr. F. PEEL could assure hon. members that, with re-
gard to the present vote, no distinction was made between
England and any other part of the United Kingdom. Their
first object was to indemnify the parish for any loss in the
transfer of property from private hands of the Government.
The property in respect to the present vote had long been
exempt from rating, and to assess it now would only be
conferring advantage upon persons who had acquired their
property under the existing state of things. But whatever
the Government property was in the proportion of one-
sixth of the rateable value of the property of the parish
they contributed a proportion.
Mr. LOCKE remarked thaf the sum of £27,000 was per-
fectly ludicrous as a contribution of the Government to the
poor rates of the parishes in which the property was
situated. They ought to be rated lik. any other owner of
property.
Mr. J. JERVOISE contended that Government property
ought to be rated to the poor relief like the property of any
private owner.
Admiral DriliColl/41.8E said that if the Government wore
called upon to pay poor rates like private owners it would
probably be necessary to reimpose some of the income-tax
which they had this year taken off.
After some further discussion, the vote was agreed to.
On the vote of .£51,0G1 for the salaries and expenses of
officers of the two Houses of Parliament and for allowances
to retired officers,
Mr. AYRT ON complained of the mode in which the

ventilation of the house was conducted, and remarked that

he thought they could not be called upon to vote anything
for the services of the gentleman who was charged with
that duty.
Mr. WHALLEY said that, according to the laws of
nature, the upper stratum of air should bo cooler than the
lower, in order that the impurities of human breath and
other impurities might be carried off. (Laughter.) But in
that house they had created an artificial heat above.
(Laughter.) Nothing could be contrived more deliberately
ruinous to the health of independent members. (Renewed
laughter.) For his own part he could stand it no longer.
(Cheers and laughter.)
The vote was agreed to.
On the vote of £39,488 for salaries and expenses of her
Majesty's Treasury,

Mr. HUNT objected to the charge for messengers. He
thought a great saving might be effected by reducing the
number of messengers in all our public offices. He did
not see why letters from public offices to different parts of
the metropolis could not be entrusted to the post instead
of being delivered by hand. The cost of messengers in
the public offices in London was no less than £34,497.
He had no doubt that this might be reduced by two-
thirds.

The vote was agreed to.
A -rote of £21,118, for the expenses of the Home-office,
was agreed to.
On the vote of £48,885 for the Foreign-office,

Mr. D. GRIFFITH thought the time was coming when
we might dispense with a groat part of the expense of the
Foreign-office. There could be very little occasion for

diplomacy if we resolved, as we seemed inclined to do, to
abandon all interference in the affairs of other nations, and
if we refused for the future to do anything to help our
friends, or to prevent the commission of wrong. The office
of Under-Secretary of Foreign Affairs in that house had
become a complete sinecure. He (Mr. Griffith) had not
had to ask him a single question during the present session.
(Laughter.)
Mr. WHALLEY said the hon. member was quite wrong
in saying that we had no interest in foreign affairs so long
as Protestantism—(laughtet)—had arrayed against it the
animosity of foreign countries. So long as we maintained
our pre-eminent civil and religious liberty, and provided a
refuge for those who maintained those principles, it was
necessary to keep up the Foreign-office.
The vote was then agreed to.
A vote of £23,858 for the salaries and expenses of the
Colonial-office was agreed to.
On a vote of £13,842 for her Majesty's Privy Council
Department,

Sir J. JERVIS called attention to the medical depart-
ment of the Privy Council, the experiments and reports of
which were very empirical and unsatisfactory.
Col. DUNNE said the officer who had presented the
report referred to in tho debate on the Union Charge-
ability Bill showed such slight regard for truth, that the
amount of his salary ought to be deducted from the vote.
Mr. BRUCE said that the report referred to had been
prepared by a gentleman specially employed. He was not
prepared to accede to the justice of the criticism of hon.
gentlemen opposite ; on the contrary, he should on Mon-
day have an opportunity of conferring with Dr. Hunter,
and he should be able to show the house that the criticisms
had been directed against that gentleman under entire mis-
apprehension.
Sir W. JOLLIFFE thought that the medical reports
wore beneficial and useful to the country, but that they re-
quired to be super?isod by the Privy Council, to prevent
their exciting sometimes the laughter, and always the cri-
ticism, of the house.
Mr. F. POWELL was not prepared to join in the criti-
cisms as to the domiciliary condition of the agricultural
population, but ho was convinced that if the report of the
medical officer had been directed to all classes of the
labouring population, it would be found that the condition
of the labouring population of the manufacturing districts
would prove more disgraceful to our civilisation than that
which had been shown in our agricultural districts. He
wished to know where the expense of those medical reports
appeared in the estimates.

Mr. BRUCE said the expense referred to appeared under
the head of contingent expenses, and explained that in the
very volume which contained the report on rural habita-
tions there was a report on the outbreak of a fever in
Liverpool, and the state of the town which had led to it.
Out of the seven volumes already in existence there was
not one which did not contain reports on the state of the
important towns of England.
Mr. RUNT thought there should bo some sort of notifi-
cation to the neighbourhood when any such inquiries were
going on.
The vote was agreed to. •
On the vote of £50,523 for the salaries of the officers of
the Board of Trade,
Mr. A. SMITH complained that two gentlemen, one
being Mr. Edward Bowring, had been allowed to retire on
superannuation at the early ages of 38 and 40 years.
gr. X. GIB SON explained that it was occasioned by the

abolition of certain offices in the department ; and that, as
regarded one of the gentlemen referred to, his services
were available whenever required by the service.
The vote was agreed to, as was also a vote of £1,000,000
for the payment of Exchequer Bonds falling due on March
31, 1866.

Sir C. 010GHLEN then moved that the Chairman bo
ordered to report progress.

The committee divided—
For reporting progress l2l
Against it
Majority —77
The house having resumed,
The Drainage and Improvement of Lands Act (Ireland)
Bill was read a third time.
ROMAN CATHOLIC OATH BILL.

Mr. MONSELL moved that the house go into committee
on this bill.

Mr. VANCE objected to the bill being proceeded with at
that late hour (it was a quarter to twelve), in the absence
of the hon. member for North Warwickshire (Mr. Newde-
gate) ; but more especially did he object to the bill being
proceeded with because it was believed by many hon. mem-
bers that the Government would have taken the question
up, and would have prepared an oath that might have been
taken by all members of the house, while at the same time
it adequately protected the Church Establishment. Ho
moved the adjournment of the debate.

Sir B. BRYDGES seconded the motion, and appealed to
the hon. member who had charge of the bill to postpone
the committee until a more convenient opportunity.

Mr. MONSELL declined to do so. He had not the con-
trol of the business of the house, and all that remained for
him, after the concessions already made to the opponents
of the bill, was to bring it on when he could.
Mr. WHITESIDE said they had a right to know
whether the Government were willing to take charge of so
important a question.

Sir G. GREY said that the bill before the house, to all
intents and purposes, did introduce a uniform oath to be
taken by all members of Parliament, the only difference
being that the oath to be taken by Protestants contained
a declaration that the Pope had no spiritual power or do-
minion in this country, while the Roman Catholic oath left
that out, and greatly to its advantage, as he believed.
(Hear, hear.)

Mr. HUNT said that although he cordially supported
the bill, he was under the impression, after the declaration
made on Wednesday last, that the Government were about
to take the matter in hand.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER entirely
agreed it would have been the duty of the Government
to have charged themselves with the responsibility of
legislating upon the question, if they had not believed that
they would be limiting the number of the objections to
the proposal by leaving it in the hands of his right hon.
friend. This subject had been introduced by Lord John
Russell, under the Government of Lord Aberdeen, but
the bill had failed—a circumstance which showed that, if
a subject of this kind were taken up by a Government,
there was a danger of its being treated as a party question.
Lord John Russell had failed in passing his measure,
whereas the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Monsell) had suc-
ceeded in carrying his by a large majority on the second
reading. He thought the success of the right hon. gentle-
man went far to show that the Government had acted
wisely in forbearing to prosecute at the present moment
what might indeed be a more perfect measure, but which
would obstruct the more limited, but valuable and benefi-
cial, purpose of his right hon. friend.
After a few words from Mr. VANSITTA.RT,

Mr. HEYGATE hoped the Government would bring
forward a measure which would put all Christian members
of that house on the same footing. If the present bill
passed, Protestants would be less favoured than Catholics
so far as regarded the oaths they would respectively have
to take.

After a brief discussion, in which Lord J. Browne, Mr
T. Collins, Mr. Kennedy, and Captain Esmond took part,
Mr. WHALLEY expressed a hope that, as tho member
for North Warwickshire was prevented by illness from
attending to propose the amendment of which he had
given notice, the house would not proceed at so late an
hour (12.15) with the bill. Several alterations had been
proposed in the oath, and there were some expressions, not
intelligible to ordinary understandings, which the right
hon. gentleman proposed to omit. (Laughter.) Were they
at so late an hour to enter upon a critical examination of
the words now proposed with the words for which they
were to be substituted ? (Loud cries of " Divide.")
Sir F. HEYGATE thought the bill should have been
introduced by the Government ; and although they might
obtain some advantage at the elections by their present
course, yet it was possible they might arouse the Protes-
tant feeling of the country.
Mr. G. DENMAN had heard the same sentiment before
that night, but he trusted that neither the Government
nor the house would be influenced by such a cowardly

argument.
Mr. WALPOLE felt convinced that when making so

important a change as this bill proposed it should be un-
dertaken by the responsible advisers of the Crown. If
the Government endeavoured to frame one uniform oath
for all the members of that house, he would cordially unite
with them in effecting that object.
Mr. GRIFFITH thought that in framing a uniform oath
it would be necessary to consider another class of gentle-
men lately admitted to that house, as well as Catholics and
Protestants.
The house then divided—
For the adjournment of the debate
Against
Majority —7l
Mr.•B. STANHOPE (amid loud cries of "Oh, oh") moved
the adjournment of the house.
Mr. WHITESIDE, in reference to what fell from the
Secretary for the Home Department, contended that, as far
as Protestants members were concerned, they should retain
the oath which negatived the spiritual jurisdiction of the
the Pope.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL expressed his surprise at
the doctrine laid down by the right hon. gentleman, who
would retain an oath for Protestants in which they denied
the spirital jurisdiction of the Popo as the bulwark of
the constitution, while he would exempt Roman Catholics,
who really did believe in that jurisdiction, from the obliga-
tion of such an oath. (Hear, hear, and laughter.)
The house then divided—
For the adjournment
Against it

Majority

Mr. WHALLEY then moved the adjournment of the
debate, proceeding, amid much laughter and interruption,
to defend the oath that was proposed to be abolished, and
to criticise the oath to bo substituted.

After a few words of explanation frOm Mr. WHITESIDE
and the ATTORNEY-GENERAL,
Mr. MONSELL agreed to the motion, and the debate
was adjourned to Tuesday.
Tho County Voters Registration Bill and tho Commis-
sioners of Supply Meetings (Scotland) Bill worn read a
third time and passed.

Tho House adjourned at half-past ono o'clock.

MR. JOHN BRIGHT, M.P., ON THE CO3IING
ELECTION.—The Carlisle Examiner gives a corre-
spondence which has just taken place between some of the
radical electors of Carlisle and Mr Bright, M.P., on the
subject of the duty of tho advanced liberals towards the
Government. Mr. Bright's letter is as follows :—" Roch-
dale, May 15.—Dear Sir,—My opinion is that the proper
course for the liberal members is to withdraw their sup-
port from any Government which will not bring in and
carry a good measure for the extension of the suffrage.
Fortunately, your members are well disposed on the reform
question, and would do anything that was thought wise
in the matter. Lord Palmerston is the real difficulty. He
is not a liberal, and the failure of the bill of 1860 was owing
entirely to him. When he is out of the way, no Govern-
ment can exist on one side of the house which will not
deal with the question of reform. I hope, at the coming
election, the radical electors will endeavour to 'bring their
members up to the point of refusing to support a Govern-
ment not willing to fulfil the pledges of 1859 and 1860.
When it is a question of reform or expulsion from office,
the Whig statesmen will decide in favour of reform. This
is the only effectual mode of dealing with them, and I
hope it will be adopted. I hope the electors of your city
will not think it needful to make any change in your re-
presentation.—l am, &c., JOHN BRIGHT."
SHOCKING ACCIDENT IN ROTTEN-RONV. —• On
Thursday morning a young lady named Miss G.
Millard, one of the riding mistresses in the establishment
of Captain and Mrs. Walton, Glocester-crescent, Hyde
Park, met with a serious accident while riding in Rotten-
row with ono of the lady pupils. Miss Millard, who is
said to be one of the most accomplished horsewomen in
London, was giving some instructions to the pupil, when,
unobserved by her, a watering-cart came lumbering along,
and her horse dashed with full force against it, all but
killing himself on the spot by the violence of the collision.
At the same instant, through the breaking of the saddle-
girths, Miss Millard, with the saddle, was thrown upwards
into an adjacent tree. The young lady's face came in
violent contact with one of the branches, and she fell head-
long into the roadway, sustaining further injuries by the
fall. Mr. Harry Mitchell, of Hyde Park-gate, and some
other gentlemen, immediately ran to tho unfortunate lady's
assistance. She was unconscious for a moment or so, but
soon rallied, and was able to walk to a carriage, which was
placed at her disposal to convey her to St. George's Hos-
pital. The lady was mostly injured about the face and
head, her features being much disfigured and mutilated.
The lamentable casualty was entirely owing to the cir-
cumstance of Miss Millard having her attention at the
moment directed to her pupil, and not to any want of train-
ing in the horse or skill on the part of the fair rider.

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