The Sun.
London, England, 1862-02-15 00:00:00

AND NAVY.

Sir G. C. LEWIS begged to give notice that the two
supplementary estimates for the army and the navy which
were now upon the table would be taken on Monday next—
first, the supplementary navy vote in committee of supply,
and the army supplementary vote afterwards.

SUPPLY.
Upon the motion for going into committee of supply,
THE MASSACRES AT DAHOMEY.

Lord A. CHURCHILL asked the Under-Secretary for
Foreign Affairs whether it was the intention of her Ma-
jesty's Government to send a commissioner to Dahomey to
treat with the King for the entire abolition of his barbarous
sacrifices of human beings, and for the discontinuance of

the slave trade in his dominions; and further, whether

there was any objection to lay upon the table of the house
any correspondence or memorials that might have been ad-
dressed to the Government on the subject. He was sorry
to say that it appeared from a letter he had lately received
from Dahomey that these massacres were still going on,
although not on so large a scale as formerly.
Mr. CAVE entirely concurred in the object of the noble
lcrd. At the same time he felt that the barbarous King of
Dahomey could not be brought to understand any argument
except that of force, and would not be bound by any trea-
ties whatever, however carefully constructed. He would
take this opportunity of mentioning one subject to the Go-
vernment, which was in connexion with the question of the
noble lord. He had heard from a highly intelligent corre-
spondent on the West Coast of Africa that the whole of the

United States squadron had lately been withdrawn, with
the exception of one sailing corvette. As a matter of
course, every slaver hoisted American colours, and our
cruisers would therefore now be deprived of even the raise-
rable expedients to which they had hitherto resorted, of
carrying the suspected vessel to an American ship of war,
to have her papers overhauled. lie trusted that some nee
expedient would be devised, but under the present circum-
stances, unless the Government could devise some counter
expedient it was clear we must look for a very large increase
of the slave trade. He might remind the Government that
the authorities of the Federal States had lately expressed
their determination in the most marked manner to put an
end to the slave trade, and had also given evidence of the
sincerity of their determination, by condemning to death,
at New York, a slave captain named Gordon.
COMMERCIAL TREATY WITH BELGIUM.

Mr. W. FORSTER asked the Under Secretary of Slate
for Foreign Affairs whether bo could inform the house of
the present position of the negotiation with Belgium for a
new commercial treaty with that country ; and if, in conse-
quence of the commercial negotiations between Prussia and
France, there was a probability of a revision of the duties

levied in the Zollverein on British manufactures. He be-
lieved there was great doubt felt throughout the manufac •
turing districts as to whether any negotiations was going on
at all. There was also a rumour, founded on statements in
continental and English newspapers, that there was a hitch
in the negotiation for a new commercial treaty, in conse-
quence of the Belgian Government wishing to sell the
Scheldt tolls to us upon terms which they did not intend to
impose upon France. It seemed they were determined, as
a condition of their commercial treaty, that we should capi-
talise those tolls at a price which would astonish the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer, and still more astonish the British
tax payer. What he complained of was, that the Belgian
Government had tried to make it a condition with us when
they had not done so with France. It was not the only
occas!on when France had been more commercially fa-
voured than England. The former had always been fa-
voured commercially by Belgium, to a much greater ex-
tent than this country had been. The passing of the
French treaty presented a golden opportunity for obtain-
ing a similar commercial treaty with Belgium and the Ger-
man Powers; but unhappily that opportunity was lost.
No doubt a deep debt of gratitude was due to Mr. Cobden,
who had rendered the greatest official service which had
ever been accomplished by an unofficial person ; but if he
had not confined his services to Paris, but had gone from
thence to Brussels and Berlin, we should not have to
complain of those difficulties which, obstructed cur cora-
merc3 with Belgium and the Zollverein. Be asked what
was the cause of the apathy of the Foreign-office upon such
questions ? For himself, he believed that the fault lay in
the first instance with the defective administration of that
department in commercial matters, and the want of direct
information with regard to them. But perhaps there was a
fault which lay deeper still, and that was that commercial
men did not look sufficiently after their own interests in the
Foreign-office. The French had taken the initiative in con-
tracting commercial treaties, not only in Belgium and with
the Zollverein, but in Austria, Italy, Spain, and Portugal,
and it behoved her Majesty's Government to follow that
example.
Mr. BAINES assured the Under Secretary of State for
Foreign Affairs that the sentiments expressed by his hon.
friend the member for Bradford were strongly held by the
chambers of commerce in the north of England. This was
not only a question, however, as to Belgium and the Zolive-
rein, but a question as to the practicability of some new ma-
chineryroelrd
grievance
vpaanr particularly to teoatshfea
ri nhtaecrke st
L,enec being introduced in the Foreign-office, having re-
the Forei
British goods were
the Leeds Chamber ass oflB stsraad ed'epuTthaitsi own afsroamn
en.oinco of Commerce made a representation to
imposed
oft the extreme unfairness with which
reate d in Belgiurn,and showed that Bel-
giumdifferentialgoodduties of between 33 and 150 per
cent. in favour of the
years, while the imports from
of France. During the last five
increased 18 to this country had
Per cent.,the extaportßelgium
had actually decreased 8 rum England to Belgium
Per
Cents
i while the exports of
French goods into Belgium had
ed 17 per cent. The
British manufacturers therefore conaid„w
grie-
vance, and in the words of the noble lord attil 1:31 great
fabitheadanodf the
Foreign Department,it was a question of good
utmost pressure which could be put upon a friendly GO.
the

vernment ought to be put on Belgium to induce her to place
this country in the same position as the most favoured na-
tion. (Hear, heal.)
Mr. NEWDEGATE entirely joined with the hon. mem-
ber for Bradford in urging upon the Government, that if
any question was pending between this and foreign nations
in relation to commercial treaties, or if there was any pros-
pect of such treaties being contracted,the provisions of those
treaties should be most carefully supervised, and that they
should not be hurried so rapidly, as they were told by Lord
Cowley,in his despatch of last year, in regard to the French
treaty, that the official representative of this country in
Franco was unable to follow the details before the whole ne-
gotiation was completed. Every detail of such a treaty should
be well weighed, not only in reference to one or two interests
to be affected by it, but in reference to all the interests of
the country. It was only natural that ho should take a dif-
ferent view of the operation of the French treaty from that
taken by the hon. gentlemen opposite. Ho scarcely could
have thought that this question would have arisen, or he
would have been prepared to lay before the house tales of the
suffering, distress, and ruin which had afflicted Coventry and
the surrounding districts during the last two years. The
wretched condition of the ribbon trade had elicited the bene-
volent consideration of her Majesty, and that of many hon.
members of that house. He sincerely thanked them for
their benevolence; but it was very sad to see a prosperous
trade struck down, and so many thousands of industrious
men living from year to year upon the charity of others.
(Hear, hear.) They saw a prospect of a large increase in
the rates in consequence of the exhaustion of the relief fund,
the effect of which would be to extend the distress that now
prevailed to classes hitherto comparatively exempted from
it. It was enough for him to say, that during several
months of last winter 22,000 persons were dependent for
assistance on the benevolence of the public as provided by
the relief fund. They had hoped that the pressure would
cease, but he regretted to say that during several months
this winter as many as 14,000 were dependent upon the
relief fund, and they still remained dependent upon it ;
and this distress extended to the master manufac-
turers. From 50 to 80 manufacturers in Coventry
and the district had been in the Gazette, and this enumera •
tion did not include cases of composition with creditors.
The number of houses in Coventry vacant was 2,000. The
sums withdrawn from deposits in savings banks within the
last two years was about £17,000. It would be needless to
go further in illustration of facts which were notorious
throughout the midland counties. Why did he allude to
these matters? To pray the house not to inflict such an-
other blow as the treaty with France did on the trade of
Coventry and the district. It was perfectly true that the
trade of this country, as well as of France, Switzerland, and
the Rhine, might have been depressed by a change of
fashion, but what was the effect upon us ? He spoke as the
representative of those men to whom he had particularly
alluded. When the trade was slack on the Rhine, in France
and in Switzerland, and when the demand from the United
States was closed by the unhappy strife prevailing in that
once united republic, the whole of the supplies from France,
from the Rhine, and from Switzerland, which could find a
market nowhere else, were thrust upon the market in Eng-
land. The quantity of ribbon imported into England in the
first 11 mouths of 1861 exceeded from 60 to 70 per cent• the
quantity imported in the same months of the two preceding
years. Take, again, the position of the watch and clock
trade, which was also carried on in Coventry. The same
circumstances in a great degree existed in regard to that
trade, and he was sure the house would agree with him,
when there was a prospect of further commercial treaties
being contracted between this and other countries, in urging
upon her Majesty's Government the importance of having
the commercial provisions of these treaties well considered,
so as to protect the trade of this country, whether in large
or small departments, from those grievous evils es hich af-
flicted the district which he had still the honour to repre-
sent. (Heai, hear.)
Mr. J. A. TURNER expressed the same feeling as the
hon. member for Bradford with regard to the cotton dis-
tricts of South Lancashire, which were now suffering great
distress, with a prospect of that distress being very much
increased before many months passed. The people in those
districts did not, however, wish to interfere in the lament-
able contest which was now going on between the Northern
and Southern States of America, (Hear) They wished that
' those States would see the folly of their actions, settle their
quarrel, and Lecome amiable to each other once more ; or, if
they could not do that, separate as friends ; but they had
no desire for the interference of this country in affairs which
were so distressing to South Lancashire and the cotton dia-
-1 tricts. They thought that her Majesty's Government
should do all they could to alleviate that distress as much as
possible. They suffered not only from a want of cotton, but
from a want of demand for their manufactures; and while
the Government were endeavouring to stimulate the growth
of cotton in India a heavy duty was imposed in that country
upon British manufactured goods, which had the effect of
excluding them from the Indian market. (Hear.) They had
a right to expect that, in negotiations with foreign powers
with whom we were on terms of amity, the executive Go-
vernment would see that justice was done to this country,
and that she was placed in as advantageous a position in
regard to commerce as other nations. (Hear, hear.)
Lord PALMERSTON—With regard to the question put
by my noble friend touching the slave trade on the coast of
Africa, the house well knows that measures for the suppres-
sion of the slave trade have occupied the most anxious and
continued attention of her Majesty's Government for a
great number of years past. My noble friend is probably
well aware that two missions have been sent at different
times to the King of Dahomey, for the purpose of endea-
vouring to persuade him to abandon the barbarous practice
of human sacrifices, and to assist us in suppressing the slave
trade. lam sorry to say that those missions were not at-
tended by success. Persons, however anxious they may be
' for the attainment of a particular object, must recollect
what obstacles the passions and habits of mankind some-
times interpose to the accomplishment of the purpose they
have in kw. This practice of human sacrifice has pre-
vailed extensively over the whole of that part of Africa;
and when you have got a barbarian like the King of
Dahomey for the time being, asking him to forego these
practices, to which he attaches a value as symbols of autho-
rity and power, and as convoying tokens of respect for
those who have gone before him, would be like asking the
pagan Romans to forego the murders they committed in the
amphitheatre, or asking the Spaniards of the present day to
forego those bull-fights which are disgusting to English
spectators, but afford great delight to the people of Spain.
Mr. Duncan was sent some years ago to the King of Daho-
mey. He remained some days at Dahomey, the capital, and
the account he gave of what he saw was something truly
disgusting. The palace was surrounded by an extensive wall
decorated with human skulls stuck upon spikes, as thickly
almost as they could be placed together. He was himself
compelled to be a witness of one of these human sacrifices.
A number of unhappy captives were brought out and being
placed in little things like canoes, were thrown over a para-
pet 40 or 50 feet high, and if that did not kill them they
were immediately despatched by persons below. I doubt
very much whether any persuasion would induce the pre-
sent King of Dahomey, who seems to be less imbued with
feelings of humanity than his father, to abandon these
practices. At the sane time I can assure my noble friend and
the house that no opportunity will be lost by her Majesty's
Government which is calculated to afford an opening for ne-
gotiations with a view to accomplishing the desired object.
With regard to the slave trade, I think it still more un-
likely that persuasion will induce him more than it has
other African chiefs to abandon that traffic. 'I hey have
only been induced to abandon the slave trade when they
have been convinced that it was more to their advantage
to carry on legitimate trade than the slave trade. The fact
is, that the chiefs derive more profit from the slave trade,
and the people from legitimate trade. The occupation of
Lagos has had a great effect in diminishing the slave trade
along that part of the coast of Africa. Arrangements have
been made with Porto Nuovo,and if we could only shut up the
opening byWariah, which is the only other opening through
which they can carry on the slave trade, I believe that we
should be able to do very much to stop the slave trade on
that part of the coast. The slave trade is carried on there by
Spaniards, Portuguese, and Brazilians. Though Spain,
Portugal, and Brasil have, as Governments, entered into
treaties to put a stop to that trade, yet when a habit is
once engrained in a people it is difficult to eradicate it, and
there will be found renegades who will take advantage of
the facilties which the habits of the country give them to
carry on the abominable traffic. At the same time much
progress has been made, and my hon, friend is quite right
in saying that if the slave trade on the west coast of
Africa could be stopped, there are resources of legitimate
trade of infinite value, not only to that country but to every
country in Europe, and especially to England. Not long
ago my hon. friend Captain Foot went from Lagos to Abeo-
kuta, and, describing his journey, he says there was a great
zone in which the cotton plant grew spontaneously, but
there was no one to gather it, but evidently its quality was
of great value, and well calculated for manufacture. I can
assure my hon. friend that no exertions will be omitted, first
to eradicate the horrible practice of human sacrifice, and
next to stop the slave trade as far as possible. It is quite
true that, owing to the civil war in America, the Federal
Government has withdrawn the greater part of her cruisers
from the coast of Africa. I cannot, off hand, tell my noble
friend whether there still remain that number of guns which
the United States are bound by treaty to maintain on the
coast for the suppression of the slave trade; but it is quite
true that the Federal government has shown a most anxi-
ous desire to pat in force the laws against the slave trade.
The prosecutions which have recently taken place at New
York are a convincing ptoof of sincerity on their part. In
whatever way that unfortunate dispute should terminate, I
hope that the American government, whether two or one,
will concur in some arrangement with Great Britain by
which more effectu d assistance may bo given by the
American cruisers, to prevent the crime, which is a
capital offence by the laws of the United States.
(Hear, hear,) I hope my noble friend will believe that
wo are anxious to carry into effect the views he has so
properly put forth. With regard to the question started
by the hon. member for Bradford, I have the satisfac-
tion to inform him that negotiations are going on between
her Majesty's Government and the Belgian Government,
which are conducted in the most amicable and friendly
spirit, and which I trust will terminate in a treaty that
will give to Great Britain the footing of the most favoured
nation, and unaccompanied by any condition, with regard
to the capitalisation of the Scheldt dues, England bore a ,