The Sun.
London, England, 1853-07-21 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF COMMONS—(YESTERDAY.)
ATTORNEYS' CERTIFICATE DUTY (No. 2.)

BILL.
Lord R. GROSVENOR moved the second reading of
the bill. He had postponed the second reading from
time to time, and had he been pressed to bring it on at
an earlier period he should probably have declined
to do so ; but as the financial scheme of the
Chancellor of the Exchequer had safely passed
through the ordeal to which it had been very properly
subjected, and as the returns of the quarter's revenue,
lately published, showed a considerable surplus, he
thought he was not taking an unjustifiable course in now
pressing for the entire reduction of the tax. The pro-
position of the right hon. gentleman with regard to the
tax had not been at all approved of by the attorneys and
solicitors. He understood that the Government had
been beating up for recruits in all directions, and it was
said that they had succeeded in obtaining the support of
the right hon. gentleman the member for Manchester
and his friends, on the understanding that the Govern-
ment would take the newspaper taxes into their favour-
able consideration. If the right hon. gentleman the
Chancellor of the Exchequer would give an assurance
that he would take the tax into his consideration next
session, he should not press the bill to a second reading.
Mr. HUME had always been opposed to the abolition
of the tax, but he did not think the hon. gentleman was
advancing the interests of the attorneys by imputing
partial motives to any member of that house.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER must
say he sympathised very much with the pain which the
honourable member opposite (Mr. Murrough) suffered
on account of the vote he was about to give, but he
would respectfully suggest to him that he might very
easily spare himself that pain by not giving it. (A laugh).
There were two motives on which men generally acted
--the one was from duty, the other was from pleasure.
The honourable member, it was plain, was not going
to act for the purpose of duty, for he said he wag
about to vote for a political sham—(a laugh)—neither
was he going to vote for the purpose of pleasure, for he
said it was painful to his feelings to vote for the motion.
(A laugh.) Perhaps he would pardon him for offering a
suggestion, that, in these circumstances, he would be
acting entirely in accordance with the dictates of his
conscience if he removed himself from the house alto-
gether. (Great laughter.) But he must be allowed to
say he thought the hon. member had entirely mistaken
the motives and charactor of his noble friend's conduct.
(Hear.) His noble friend, at his suggestion, agreed to
take the division on the second reading of the bill, but it
was not at all true that his noble friend by that agree-
ment in any way put an advantage into his hands. If
he had done so the hon. member would have had a
right to complain, or at least would have had some
colour of complaint; but the hon. member was perhaps
not aware that, this being a case of reduction of duty,
it was not necessary to introduce it by a preliminary
resolution at all, and that, by not opposing his (the
Chancellor of the Exchequer's) resolution, his noble
friend did not lose his right to introduce a bill to take
away the duty altogether. It was, therefore, a mere
matter of courtesy that led to any arrangement between
them. If it had not been for the attack just made by
the hon. member opposite, he should have been dis-
posed to take up his noble friend from an opposite point
of view, and to compliment him for the tenacity, he
would say the chivalrous tenacity, with which he
had taken up the cause of this unfortunate and
helpless body. (A laugh.) His noble friend's cha-
racter as a philanthropist had been long esta-
blished, otherwise, no more illustrious example of it
could be quoted in after times than the manner in
which he had held out the right hand of succour and
support to a meritorious class, entirely without organi-
zation—(laughter)—not represented in that house—
(laughter)—cut off from all the ordinary means of com-
munication with it enjoyed by other clasees—(laughter)
—and, last of all, having their friends on circuit. (Great
laughter.) But, with regard to the question at issue, it
was understood that they were discussing a bill with two
objects—one to repeal the annual certificate duty paid by
attorneys and solicitors, the other to amend the law with
regard to their registration. The question to be taken on
the second reading, however, had no relation to this last
clause, and therefore they were going to debate the ques-
tion whether they would repeal the certificate duty or not.
He was sorry to find that besides the offence of refus-
ing the repeal of the duty he had committed another
offence by introducing a plan for the reduction of the
duty, that was more unacceptable than its maintenance
—for his noble friend had told them that the plan which
he introduced gave satisfaction to no one, while it would
be a sheer loss to the revenue. (Hear, hear.) Now, all
he had to say upon this point was, that if the noble lord
and his friends felt so much aggrieved by the proposal
which he had made, he did not say the Government was
so obstinate in their adherence to the plan as that they
might not be induced, on the representation of the par-
ties, to give it up altogether. (Laughter.) But, most
unquestionably, they would not be parties to a repeal
of the certificate duty and setting the profession free
from a tax to the State which they had paid for 60
years, and which they were brought up in the expecta-
tion of paying, and at the same time leaving in its
unmitigated force the enormous tax now paid upon the
stamp that was required in the case of every little
boy whose father wanted to put him into the profes-
sion—a tax of 1201. in the case of a boy, who might,
perhaps, turn out to be unfit, or who might be pre-
vented by circumstances from following out the voca-
tion. (Hear, hear.) The Government would be no
party to levying such a burdensome tax and repealing
the other. (Hear.) His noble friend said, if he would
consent to put his refusal on the ground of a temporary
injury to the revenue, and promise that by another year
he would somewhat relent, he would be ready to take
the present plan of the Government as an instalment,
leave the question in the meantime in his hands, and be
ready to take it up again in a future year. Of course,
it was open to his noble friend to use his own discretion
in the matter ; but it was open to him also to say that
be hoped the house was now disposed to come to a
final vote on the subject. (Hear.) He could give
what he thought conclusive reasons from the state
of the revenue of the present year why the re-
peal of , this tax should not now be granted ; and
he could not give any promise conscientiously to
his noble friend in the next year, or any
future year, he could repeal this duty—and for this plain
reason, that, forming the most sanguine estimate of the
resources of the revenue, he still felt there were other
objects of legislation beneficial to the attorneys and
solicitors, in common with the rest of the community,
far preferable to this, and far more imperative than this,
in the claims they made on the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer and that house. (Hear.) He therefore could give
no pledge as to the future, because he saw a long array
of claims coming in for the repeal of taxes—claims of a
far higher nature than could be urged in favour of the
present object. Now, with regard to revenue conside-
rations, he would state a few words to the house. On
the 18th of April, having stated to the house the changes
which the Government were prepared to propose with
reference to their fiscal legislation, he calculated that the
result of those changes would be to leave them with a
surplus of 495,0001. Since that time various changes had
taken place, and he was able to speak more positively
on subjects scarcely then ripe for a conclusion, 'and the
result had tended materially to alter the statement he
had made. His noble friend must not found his calcula-

tions upon the last quarter's revenue. The returns for
the last quarter were swelled adventitiously and acci-
dentally by a variety of causes which he could easily
point out ; and he would say, looking at the present
state of the country, enlarging on that view of it, and
the prospect of the harvest, that if ho were to go now into
his department and ask them to give him a new estimate
of the revenue for 1853-54, they would not be able to
give him, to say the least, a more favourable estimate
than that which he laid before the house in April.
(Hear, hear.) As to the surplus he then calculated
upon, it would Ibe necessary to make one or two state-
ments. In one item, that of the militia, there would
be a gain, the expenditure under that head being
52,000/. less than was anticipated. The packet contract,
however, would exceed the estimate by 35,0001.
Then there was a sum of 56,0001. which he expected to
have got from the Channel Island harbours, but which
it would not be possible to save during the present
year. There was 100,0001., the probable result of the
financial measures that had been taken, a sum which
would be realised as a permanent saving to the country
from the contracted amount of the Exchequer-bills, but
which would not be available for the balance of the
present year. There was likewise 110,0001., which he
had calculated on receiving from licenses, but this item
was so cut down by deductions which he had found it
necessary to make in order to satisfy the fair claims of
parties who had made representations to him that
the
it
was deemed betterinot to insist on that part of
scheme. (Hear.) Here was 301,0001. out of
etdiet
surplus disposed of, and that left, after giving cr f
for the sum saved from the militia, the amounte
250,0001. (Hear, hear.) Then a sum of t from
150,0001. to 200,0001. would be required to
meet
in cer-
tain charges that it would be their duty to take a
supplementary estimate ; so that all they had left of
the surplus would be from 50,000/. to 100,0001. (Hear.)
There was a demand made for the repeal of the adver-
tisement duty, amounting to 80,0001., and of the attor-
neys' duty, also amounting to 80,0001. ; but if both of
these duties were to be repealed they would have to carry
on the operations of the financial year, not with a sur-
plus, but with a deficit. (Hear.) Something had been
said abort a tacit understanding with the right hon. gen-
tleman the member for Manchester. Whatever under-
standing was not
there had been on this subj
tacit but outspoken (hear, hear) and whatever
had proceeded from him, directly or indirectly to the
members for Manchester in regard to the relation
between these two questions of the attorneys' and
advertisement duty, was no more than had likewise
proceeded from him directly to the noble lord the mem-
ber for Middlesex one or two days ago, when he called
upon him, when he pointed out that in regard to the
national accounts there was a very close relation be-
tween the two questions. (Hear, hear.) They were
asked to repeal two sets of duties amounting to 160,0001.,
and it was acknowledged that if they did so they would
start, not with a surplus, but with a deficit. Now,
the Government thought the prudent course would
be to make neither of these reductions, and on their
part he had submitted a plan to the consideration of the
house. He would not speak now of the chance
divisions taken on the ad vertisement duty at a late
hour in the evening ; but he would admit that those divi-
sions did indicate to his mitid, and to those of his col-
leagues, a strong feeling find desire cn the part of the