The Sun.
London, England, 1862-03-25 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT:

After a few words from Lord CRANWORTIT, their lord-
ships divided—

HOUSE OF LORDS—YESTERDAY.
ROYAL COMMISSION.
The Royal assent was given by commission to the Con-
wilidated Fund (£18,000,000) and the Exchequer Bills Bill.
The Royal Commissioners were the Lord Chancellor,
the Duke of Argyll, and Earl St. Germans.
Their lordships adjourned during pleasure.
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the `woolsack
-at five o'clock.

Contents .................... 3B
Non-contents ................
Majority
The clause was then agreed to, as was clause 1.
Clauses 5 and 6 were struck out, and
On the motion of the LORD CHANCELLOR the following
clauses were substituted :
Clause A. " Where7r Tiracr the Lunacy Regulation
Act, 1853, the Lord Cinslicellor entrusted as aforesaid, shall
think it, right the inquiry should be before a jury, he shall
1); nis order direct an issue to be tried in ono of her Ma-
jesty's superior courts of common law at Westminster, and
the question in such issue shall be, whether the alleged
insane person is of unsound mind, and incapable of go-
verning himself and managing his affairs, and the provi-
sions of the Lunacy Regulation Act of 1853, with respect
to commissioners of lunacy, and orders for inquiry to be
tried by a jury, and the trial thereof and the constitution of
the jury shall apply to any issue to be directed as afore-
said, and the trial thereof, and subject thereto such issue •
and the trial thereof shall be regulated by the act Bth and
9th Vic.' And generally the verdict to have the same
force to all intents and purposed as an inquisition under a
commission of lunacy.
Clause B enacted that reference to other acts to inquisi-
tion to apply to verdict on issue.
Clauses up to 16 were agreed to with some verbal amend-
ments.

THE REVISED CODE.
Lord ST. LEONARDS preseutfad petitions against the
revised code.
Lord CHELMSFORD also pr' rented petitions against
the revised code,
The Earl of SHA.F".;;E.S7,3IJRY also presented similar
petitions with a sizn':tar -grayer.
rTHIRD READINGS.
The Cater
The followin'o bills were read a third time and passed :
Assurance.

POLAND.
,The- Earl of CAR.NARVON had given notice of his
"-lention to call the attention of the house to the present
state of Poland, and also to ask her Majesty's Government
whether Prinee3 Gortschakoff's circular letter of the 20th
March, 1861 e, had been communicated to them. He said,
in conseq:aence of an appeal to him by his noble and learned
friend (Lord Chelmsford) ha should postpone doing so for
the present.
INDIA STOCKS TRANSFER BILL.
This bill, on the motion of the Duke of ARGYLL, was
reefe a second time.
L.I7NACY REGULATION BILL.
Their hardships went into committee on this bill.
elouSses 1 and 2 were agreed to.
Upon clause 3, after a short discussion with regard to
so.me technical objections,
Lord CHELMSFORD said he rose tQ ',sieve the first
amendment of which he had given notieSs. He was appre-
hensive that their lordships might consider that his amend-
ment Was of no consequence, instead of one, as he :con-
ceived; off serious importance. They were legislating
confeewdly under circumstances of pressure, arising from a
late proceeding under a commission of lunacy. The extra-
ordinary length of that :trial, the nature of the evidence
'given, and the contradictory evidence of the medical men,
conspired to raise a feeling in the public mind that the
law was defective and required alteration. He was
always apprehensive that when a Legislature yielded too
hastily to a demanil for a change in the law they
might be hurried into a species of legislation they might
afterwards regret. He was not afraid to say, that notwith-
standing all the objections made, he believed the law of 1
1858, for venich they were indebted to his noble and learned
friend (*lord St. Leonards), had worked exceedingly well,
and lead answered every object that could be desired.
Sin sae that act came into operation in October, 1853, there
.heed been 561 commissions of lunacy, out of which only 20
/lad been determined by juries, 12 of these 20 were settled
in less than a day, and the rest, with two or three excep-
tions, in a very short time. No lees than 541 cases of these
commissions had been decided, without the intervention of
a jury, merely by the judgment of the master upon the evi-
dence quietly and privately brought before him. Nothing
could be of greater interest than these facts, because they
showed hov much the feelings of many families had been
spared, 'while the necessary protection the unfortunate
objects of those inquiries required was thrown around them.
But ',he proceeding to which he had referred had made the
Po:olic anxious that some means should be devised by
which, if possible, the length of such inquiries might in
future be prevented. In order, therefore, to meet this desire
the third clause had been proposed. That clause contained
two provisions which it wee; assumed would be calculated
to prevent ankh lengthened proceedings, The first of these
two provirsions was, that evidence as to anything done or
said by ',:he person who was the subject of the inquiry, as to
his demeanour or state of mind at any time being more
tha'a two years before the time of the inquiry, should not
be; received; and the second provision was, that the opinion
Of any medical practitioner should not be admissible as
evidence of insanity. Now, he thought he could satisfy
their lordships that both of these provisions were extremely
objectionable, Suppose a man were attacked with chronic
insanity, which had been stealing on for years, would
it not be impossible to confine evidence within any
limits whatever ? The clause proposed to limit the
inquiry to two years; but if a man laboured under
mental delusion for many many years, how would that
meoet such. a case as the clause contemplated ? It was well
knwn
with what extreme reluctance families sued out a
rale:don of lunacy against a relative, and would not that
else.? ting
them to two years have a most pernicious
Wd He believed evidence would be excluded of a most
Important character if the time were so limited; that it
would fetter the discretion not only of the judge, but the
master in lunacy, and by fixing an arbitrary rule materially
affect the interests of justice. He referred to the case of
Bl‘Naghten,who attempted to assault the Queen some years
back, showing the danger of relying on the evidence of a
medical man in cases of insanity, without his having pre-
viously examined the alleged lunatic. In cases of wills,
where the testator's soundness of mind was called in ques-
tion, they were always compelled to admit medical testi-
mony, and that of a man who had a previous knowledge
of the manners and habits of the deceased.
Lord CRANWORTH thought, with all respect for the
master in lunacy and the jury who tried the Windham case, THE REVISED CODE.
the real remedy for the evils complained of would be to have Mr. BAINES gave notice, that when the house went
such cases tried before one of the superior judges. D
• , into committee on the education grant, he would move for
the 11 years that he had acted as common law judge he
xtever knew an instance where counsel refused to attend to a return showing the religion of the persons receiving the
capitation grant, and also the circumstances of the re-
d suggestion from the judge. If the. Court thought the in- cipients of such bounty. He would also move that steps
quiry was extended too fat a hint from him to that effect should be taken to prevent this grant being extended to
would be sufficient to prevent prolixity ; and he did not schools which did not stand in need of such assistance.
think the present proposal necessary. THE INTERNATIONAL EXHIBITION.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said Ilia attention had Lord R. MONTAGU asked the Secretary to the Tree-
been called to the necessity of legislation on this •
subject by the enormity of what took place at a rnt trial. Hesury whether the Post-office authorities had undertaken to
.act as agents in the International Exhibition for certain
thought 'embed detected certain anomalies in the manner railway companies for the issue of tickets, forwarding of
in which that case was conducted. He did not think it parcels, and advising applicants as to the routes to be taken;
right that in trying such a person the case should be and whether this had been done under the sanction of the
c'erried back indefinitely. No one could possibly be pre- Treasury.
seared to meet allegations with regard to what occurred in
his
infancy. The first witness examined said when he Mr. F. PEEL said he believed there:was an office for the
purpose, such as was described by the noble lord, but it
became acquainted with the subject of the inquiry he had no connection with the Post-office or the Treasury.
(Windham) wee four years of age, he was of infirm mental BANKRUPTCY BILL OF LAST YEAR.
organisation,
r. VANCE asked the Attorney-General if it was the
congenitally, and was expected to end his
M after Year..l3 In idiocy. This witness—a medical man—was intention of the Government to introduce any measure to
asked What led him to arrive at this conjecture, and he alter or amend the Bankruptcy Bill of last session.
answered that the shape of the boy's head (a boy of four The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said if the measure
Sears of age) had led him to that conclusion. "It was which. had been adopted was not successful a bill on the
larger behind than before—his foreheadwas not in due pro_ subject would be introduced by Government this session.
-portion to the back part of his hea.d." Was it right to extend DIIPOTB FOR EMIGRANTS.
the inquiry backwards for twenty years to ascertain such Mr. KII•iIsiAIItD asked the Under Secretary of State for
particulars? He thought it necessary to have some lilies the Colonies, whether he had any objection to direct the
laid down to get rid of such an anomaly. By the rules he limigration Commissioners to report upon the expediency
had laid down he did not mean to exclude medical testi- of establishing depots in the ports of London, Liverpool,
1 and elsewhere,kt. for the
mony. He did not want to exclude the evidence of what areception of einigtants waiting for
medical man might observe, but to exclude fancies and idle 1 b
uuC. 70.11TESCUE said if the hon. member. would
theories not ~varranted by any inductions founded on fact. Mr. . .
apply to the Colonial-cfeee by letter he would receive the
One of the medical witnesses inferred the boy's imbecility
information he required.
from the, fact that his head measured 22k inches round,
whereas a man's head would require 22 inches and no more! C:APT-LIRE_ OF A BRITISH VESSEL BY THE
What was required in an investigation of this kind was to
GREGORY asked the Under Secretary of State for
UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT.
hrrive at a moral conclusion from facts, and not to ascertain Mr. whether the disease was dementia, amentia, monomania, Poroign
Affairs if the attention of the Government had
mania, melancholia, or monomania combined with fatuity. been called to the reported capture, in Mexican waters, of
One medical witness was asked whether in cases of this
.La with
the British vessel buan, laden cotton, by a cruiser
description the jury could not form as tersest an opinion as
of the United States ?
a medical man, and he said, " I think in a case like this a Mr. LAYARD said the attention of her Majesty's At-
Lyman is as competent to come to a right conclusion on torney-General had been called to this subject, and he had
all the facts as lam myself." He (the Lord Chancellor) instructed Lord Lyons to take the matter up, and that noble-
admitted that medical men were more accurate observers man had communicated with Mr. Seward, and steps were
than ordinary persons, but what was sought by the bill taken for the protection of British interests.
was to prevent the substitution of opinions for facts. POOR RELIEF (IRELAND) BILL.
Frequently it was found that the opinions of six medical On the order for going into committee upon the Poor
Then would be opposed to six others of the same tribe ; but Relief (Ireland) Bill a discussion aroso upon various in-
if
*ally one of the opposite, and that the jury were to (Lc- Mr. GREGORY, premising that it was important
cept opinions for facts, one of the parties in the case might not to bring the central authority administering the
be damaged. Much confusion sometimes arose among poor law into collision with public opinion in Ire-
medical gentlemen from the circumstance of their not land, observed that the present mode, of dismissing Roman
truderstanding medical terms. In a certain case six me- Catholic chaplains at the workhouses was a great cause of
.cal gentleman decided that there was delusion and no de- dissatisfaction and offence, and suggested that where a
litinna, and six more were of opinion that there was delirium Roman Catholic chaplain was to be remonstrated with or
a" no delusion. The manner in which these inquiries were dismissed, a communication should in the first instance be
rdeeted, so far as medical testimony was concerned, had hold with the spiritual authority by whom he had been ap-
dirle,Positively odious, and the evil required to be reme- pointed. This concession, though slight and simple, would,
i - 'lf they struck at that evil they should pluck it out he believed, remove a great cause of disagreement.
.3, the fe -
d dis''); and put an end to that which was a reproach Mr. OSBORNE complained of the constitution of the
wanandePoa". What could bo more unreasonable than to Poor Law Commission. The great proportion of the per-
establish his irkeanity
over a man's entire life in search of evidence to sons requiring poor law relief in Ireland were Roman
There was allst distinction to be Catholics, whereas the members of the Board were all
drawn betweeootthepopinions of medic men as regarded the Protestats.
state of mind
ettiona supposed to be labouring under 1 Sir R. PEEL, in replying to objections, said he had
which .
luiln2ligit,annsdonth:Zitt7tBrilaflamedical men in post mortem exa- never found any of that groat dissatisfaction
Wit,hbecause in the latter case they Gregory supposed to exist on the score of the removal of
had actual facts to deal
iy stated at the I,„'twhereawin the former case Romaa Catholic chaplains without the authority of their
the; mere
te -conjectures on bishop. If the Commissioners acted (as they did) towards
things they had not th. e.mselves „en•
For the in
most part Roman Catholic chaplains
cases of lunacy the opinions of medical
but the law of evidence did were purely Protestant chaplains, ho did not understand the force of
speculative ;
it
grown nee did not practically ex- Mr. Gregory's objection, and could not accede to his pro-
for int, _,
elude them, because had
tozzost a precedent petal. With regard to the constitution of the Poor Law
conelcius: ions from
the judges and juries to be taught
'ye thaat.iininsanjurity3: Board, it was true that there was no Roman Catholic com-
was a physical disease and not the subject of re .
eiissioner upon it, but the members of the board were
and that they were bound to derive their
selected for their qualifications and fitness, without refe-
medical opinion. Now what he desired to
that they should make the jury arrive at theireesoabliesile, was rents to their creed, and he thought it would bo most inju-
to the sanity or insanity et. the alleged lunatielly-zez dieions tc import sectarian differences into the administra.-
tion of the law. He was mire that the commissioners,
proof and testimony of things done or said by the party,en-
by s eculative evidence, whether Roman Catholic or Protestant, would exercise
their faretions with the strictest impartiality.
not to be in any degree influenced
hips would giveC,
On these grounds he trusted their lorpds
their sanction to the clause. (Hear, beer.) This Preliminary discussion continued for some time,
chip voith reference to these two matters. ITpon its ter.
The Earl of SHAFTESBURY desired to explain that
to the ex- tnh"cnactlimi the'
clauses use went into committee upon the bill, and
what he had stated the other evening referred . .
Laments.lT.Ehie,seetnleeall7:laond
uls to the eighth were agreed to, after much de-
ceptions which should be made in cases of homicidal mania bate waiths"
ought to ex-
time.
relative to the period over which the inquiry
d.e.al. COLLEGE OP
Beene/
II then ordered to report progress,
tend. With regard to other cases, they would have to
,in this bill.
This bill was d lISICIANS (IRELAND) BILL.
with the present state of mind of the individual. 110 'jai
1 The linuNe went into n
enled the absurd character of medical certificates, on which P= .^ AND l OcI,J, 1,t,5,AAttc,,,,,,,
AMENDMENT BILL
parties had frequently been deprived of their liberty, an(
Trir. 13013 VERT E said there were e, t . . .
real/stained that it was on facts and facts alone that
any alleged lunatic should be subjected to confinement. in relation to shores, with which thid r!'in 111:ivito rights
bill would interfere,

The remaining clauses of the bill were then agreed to
with some verbal amendments, and the house resumed.
The report was ordered to be brought up on Thursday, after
which their lordships adjourned at 20 minutes to 10 o'clock.

HOUSE 01? COMMONS—YESTERDAY,
The SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock,
PRIVATE BUSINESS.

The following bills were read a third time and passed
:
Bollington (Presbury) Improvement and Lighting—Brid-
port Road (Second District)—Faringdon Railway—Folke-
stone to Barham Downs Road—Londen and Blackwall
Railway—Norwich Corporation—Ross Turnpike Trust—
Wycombe Railway.

The following bills were considered and ordered for third
reading :—Barnsley Local Board of Health—Garston and
Liverpool Railway—Heckmondwike Gas—Kington and
Eardisley Railway—London, Chatham, and Dover Rail-
way (Junction Railway at Battersea, &c.)--New Chappel,
Lindfield, and Brighton, &c., Roads—Oldham, Ashton-
under-Lyne, and Guide Bridge Junction Railway—Stock-
ton and Darlington Railway (Towlaw and Crook—Tend-
ring Hundred Railway, Wareham Roads—Weymouth and
Portland Railway and Extension to Harbour--Woolwich,
Plumstead, and Charlton, &c., Gas—and Kent County
Gaol and Lunatic Asylum (Water Supply).
ROYAL COMMISSION.
Col. CLIFFORD, Yeoman of the Black Rod, summoned
hon. members to the Upper House to hear the Royal assent
given by commission to several private bills, for which see
Lords' report.

EDINBURGH, DUNFERMLINE, AND PERTH

JUNCTION RAILWAY.
Mr. C. BRUCE moved that the report of the Standing
Orders Committee of 14th March, in the case of the Edin-
burgh, Dunfermline, and Perth Junction Railway petition,
for leave to deposit a petition for a bill, be read ; that the rail-
ways and works proposed to be authorisedbythebilltowhich
such petition relates being of great importance to the coun-
ties of Fife and Kinross, and all the North of Scotland, and
it being extremely desirable that they should be considered
in the present session, in which a bill for authorising a
partially competing scheme has been introduced into Par-
liament, leave be given to deposit a petition for a bill, pur-
suant to the prayer of the said petition.
Mr. WEMYSS seconded the motion, and said that this
railway would traverse a very important mineral district
in Scotland. He contended that this subject was one of
national importance as far as Scotland was concerned.
Colonel PATTEN said that the committee of standing
orders considered that there had been a breach of the rules
of Parliament in reference to the private bill by the com-
pany in question. There was no feeling on the part
of the committee in respect to the'merits of the bill, and
they dealt with it merely as regarded the rules relating to
standing orders.

Sir F. GOLDSMIDT said he was one of the committee
that had rejected the bill, and he considered its rejection was
justified by the merits of the bill itself as well as by its non-
compliance with certain rules of the house. He considered
the line stopping short of Edinburgh was a radical defect
is the bill, and therefore on that ground he felt bound to
oppose it.

Mr. ADAMS =tended that the railway proposed to be
constructed would be of great advantage to Scotland, and
that the rules of the house should have been strictly ad-
hered to with respect to a matter of such importance.

After some remarks from Sir J. Fergusson, Mr. Hodgson,
Mr. Deedes, and Mr. Henley.
Mr. MASSEY said that he did not think the parties in
this case were entitled to any consideration, as they had
not remedied the defects pointed out last session.
Mr. C. BRUCE said that after the expression of feel-
ing of hon. members he would withdraw his motion.
ADMIRALTY COURT (IRELAND).
Mr. MAGUIRE gave notice that he should move for
leave to bring in a bill to amend the procedure in the Ad-
miralty Court in Ireland.