The Sun.
London, England, 1862-02-25 00:00:00

friends to the strength of the French navy. lam very
sorry to have to do so ; we have often had discussions on

this subject, and I am afraid they have often led to some ill.
feeling on the other side of the water. I must say I think
it undesirable at the present time to enter into this topic,
more particularly as the public in this country has been
convinced that the French Emperor has acted most hon •
ourably towards us. (Hear.) Under these circumstances, it
would be much more pleasing to me to pass over this sub-
ject altogether, and confine my observations exclusively to
our own affairs. But the hon. gentlemen seem to doubt the
accuracy of the information of the Government ; they seem
to doubt whether the Government Ills not been deceived.
But I am bound to tell the hon. member for Sunderland
and the hon. member for Montrose that every word the noble
lord (Lord Palmerston) said last year with regard to the
naval force of France is true; that every one of the iron
ships mentioned exists. The Magenta and the Solferino
are both afloat. I can give the names of the others if the
committee desire it. (No, no.) It is true they are not all
in commission, but they are afloat, and ready to proceed to
sea directly. lam perfectly ready to admit that we believe
the preparations that have been going on in the French
dockyards are not at this moment so great as they were. But
do not let anybody deceive themselves, or suppose that the
French do not intend to add to their navy. We know that
in France every lover of his country is desirous of having
a larger navy ; and I,,can assure the hon. gentleman, with-

out going further into details, that the force that I enume-
rated to the house all exists, and is all in a state of pro-
gress. However, I pass over this subject, at least for the
present ; and will now address myself to the estimates I
have to lay before the committee. The total amount of the
estimates for the Navy for the year 1862.3 is £11,794,305.
The amount of the same Estimates for the year 1861-2, in-
cluding the £364,388 voted a few days ago for an excess of
expenditure to the 31st of March next, was £19,640,588.
The consequent net decrease on the next year, as compared
with the present, is £846,283. The decrease is caused chiefly
by the reduction under the heads of the purchase of naval
stores for building and repairing ships and the purchase of
steam machinery. There is another vote on which there is
a reduction—the vote which refers to the transport of the
army. On that vote there will be a considerable reduction,
and here let me say that in that vote is included a stun of
£42,000 for the paying off of the transports which have
lately been employed in the North American expedition. I
think I may truly state that when that £42,000 is paid the
whole expense incurred for that expedition, as far as the
Admiralty is concerned, will have been completed. There,
will be no more to pay off. (Hear.) Upon some of the othef_
votes there is an increase. There is a considerable increase
on the vote for the Naval Reserve, and when I come to ex-
plain it I am sure the house will be glad to agree to that
increase, because it denotes that we are gradually bringing

together a most valuable reserve. (Hear.) There is also
an increase on the vote for artificers, which is of no great
importance. It is in consequence of our having decided
that it was absolutely necessary that we should take on a
considerable number of hired men with a view to repairing
the ships employed in the China war, of which a great many
have returned home. Their repairs are urgently necessary,
and the Government therefore determined that there should
be a slight increase in this vote. Before I proceed to
state:hthe number of men we propose to take, let me ask
hon. gentlemen who study this Estimate to remark that
though there appears on the face of the estimate a decrease
of no less than 9,000 men, yet that apparent decrease is
simply in consequence of the Admiralty having thought it
better this year to show distinctly the whole number of boys
voted. In previous years the boys have been merged in the
seamen, the only boys shown were the 2,000 under training.
This year the men and boys employed are shown separately.
The actual diminution of men is 2,000 seamen and 200 men
of the Coastguard. That is to say, for 1862-3 we propose to
take a force of 76,000 men, against 78,200 for the past year.
1 The proportion of boys remains exactly the same. I should
inform the house that this reduction has already been
partially effected. At page 10 of the Estimates will ha
found the number of men borne on the books in each month;
and it will be seen that, of the whole reduction of 2,000, we
have not now above 1,000 to reduce. The decrease will be
entirely gradual. There will be no breaking of faith with
the seamen. (Hear, hear.) As the ships come home and
the men are paid off, all who desire to enter for continuous
service, having good characters, will be permitted to do so;
and the only reduction will be by casualties, so to speak.
An hon. gentleman desired that I should state how the
continuous service was working. lam very glad to say
that it is working satisfactorily. Last year I told the com-
mittee that one-half of the seamen were continuous service
men. This year lam happy to be able to state that nearly
two-thirds are continuous service men. (Hear.) I pro-
pose now to follow the time-honoured custom of giving to
the house some account of the state and condition of the
navy. First of all as to our force afloat. We propose to
maintain during the coming year at home two line-of-battle
ships, two iron-cased frigates, two frigates and corvettes,
and four *cps, making a total of 10 ships in the Channel
fleet. In the Mediterranean we propose to maintain nine '
line-of-bl4We ships, foul corvettes, and 15 sloops, making a . •
total of 28 vessels. On the American station we propose to
maintain eight line-of-battle-ships—a number which has
already been decreased by one by the lamentable loss of a
very fine vessel. The only consolation we can offer to our-
selves is that there were no lives lost. (Hear.) She 'was lost
upon a wild, broken coast, and it was a mercy that her
crew were not lost also. We have also on that station
10 frigates and corvettes and 13 sloops, making a total
of 31 vessels. On distant stations we have 22 frigates'
and corvettes and 58 sloops, making a total of 80 vessels.
The total force afloat, therefore, during the coming year
will be 19 line-of- battle ships, two iron-cased frigates, 90
sloops, 38 frigates and corvettes, making a total of 149 ships.
That is a general view of the intentions of the Government
during the coming year, but I must also say that the Ad-
miralty are very strongly of opinion that it is advisable, in
some cases at all events, to substitute frigates for line-of-
battle ships. The frigates are in many respects in time of
peace better vessels. They are less costly and require less
manning; they are good for evolutions for all service par-.
poses, and, moreover, it is very desirable that we should
have these large ships in reserve rather than always at work .
and necessitating repairs. I was asked the other day whe-
ther the Admiralty had not spent a great deal of money in
preparing ships for the North American expedition. The
Admiralty did prepare a great many ships, but these skips
will come in; part of them will be commissioned in lieu of .
several line-of-battle ships now coming home, and the pre-
paration thus made will be of service for the future. In
addition to the ships I have enumerated, we have two coast-
guard ships and nine blockships, making 11 coastguard
ships. Our total force afloat, therefore, will amount to some-
where about 160 ships of all sorts. With regard to our men
we propose to maintain on the home station during the com-
ing year for service at sea a force of officers, marines, sea- '
men, and boys, including the Coastguard afloat, amounting
to 15,200 men. In the Mediterranean we propose to main-
tain a force of 9,800 men; and on the North American and
Mexican station 12,200, including 700 Marines who
,are
disembarked. That is a total of 37,200, which may be con-
sidered to be within call of home. In these days of steam
it may fairly be considered that the whale of these men,
and ships likewise, on the Mediterranean and North
American stations, are practically available for all pur-
poses of home defence should it be necessary. We have
be-
sides on distant stations a force of 17,000 men,m
of
men
gen
atotal afloat of 54,200 men. That is the total number
andtheEsCtiomasattgeuad
this
awdeoaptu.rpAoslerbtoongmbaiwnetaainreeefokritohgeffteeorat
smaller
year on account of the men, and although hon. gentlemen
opposite might feel some alarm at any diminution of our
force at the present time, yet when I state what farce we
have available for the year I don't think anybody on either
side of the house will be of opinion that we are not in a fair
state of preparation. At the same time I don't think we
have too many men. The men that we have available
for immediate service without calling on our reserves are the
following :—We have in the home ports disposable at the
present moment—exclusive of boys in training-4,400 men.
and trained boys ready to go to sea. The right. hon. mem-
ber for Droitwich, when I made a similar statement last.
year, said, "But what are these men P" My anwsewlikreids,.
that they are men we could put onboard any ship.
four frigates' ships' com-
panieslate crisis, and there areoar
These are the men who manned those three frigates at the
be able to maintain 9.00.
PThen we have Marines ashore
ready to put on
dbis nearlyodaatbol-emfoorrreoewo.f Wmeenhoapnedwbeoyshall
shore 4,000, riggers in the dockyard
amen, and ready to embark at any
t91:8e0h0
,o mcoeapsotgrtsuaorfd4o,n4
—who are first. rate
2,700, and
• Marine pensioners I,7oo—making a total force
moment-700' able-bodied Naval pensioners
able-bodied
available, without calling on our reserves, of 23,300 men.
That is our normal state of preparation, irrespective of
eve in the shape of reserve.
SirrY everything in
and above the crews of all
ships in commission ?
Lord C. PAGET—Over and above the crews of ships in
commission ; including marines on shore, but excluding the
training boys, who we think will not yet be useful. We
next come to that magnificent force which has just been
created—the Royal Naval Reserve. It is impossible for me
to say more than has been already said both in and out of
this house as to the patriotic conduct of the men composing
that force. (Hear, hear.) We may entirely rely upon those
men. Everything which has occurred tends to show that
they are men upon whom we may thoroughly depend.
They are first -rate seamen. Every merchant gives them
the preference in manning his ships. (Hear, hear.)
They aro steady men, and all that we hear is to their advan-
tage. Last year I was thought oversanguine when I antici-
pated that we should raise 9,000 or 10,000 of these men.
To-day we have passed the 10,000, and have 10,000 and odd
men either enrolled or just about to be enrolled. (Hear,
hear.) That is very satisfactory. It is quite sight that we
should be proud of this result, but it is also right that wee
should know the cost of it. We at the Admiralty have
hon.
at great pains to ascertain the cost of this force. _ nltfaenmY
I.(
ry
member likes to move for the details he will find
interesting, and the Admiralty will be very
them ; but, not to detain the committee
toe
expense of long,gla 1 to pro I
will state
duce
shortly that the cost per man, including
e the
staining fees of the
train-
ing ships, their officers and crews, th
men, their lodging and proviso°ns while on board, the pay
other detail, is about £l3
eVirneopyre a
sue every
et aint
nrautmhebrerathheigehxperenfisgeupreer,
of shipping masters:
per annum. Last Y
that 'when
ertuenerefore we may expect
but of course as them
i man diminishes, and