The Sun.
London, England, 1865-03-08 00:00:00

dismissal or the acceptance of the resignation of Mr.
Leonard Edmunds—for I will put it in that light—it
should have been brought before the House of Lords with
the two parties before them, and• their lo rd,l ips ' could
have decided, not whether, having been dismissed, he
should receive his pension, but whether the amount of
blame imputed to him in another office justified his dismis-
sal froth the office he held in this house. (Hear, hear.)
This case was prejudged ; he waa compelled to resign, and
the question that was alone raised was whether he was
entitled to a pension. We are in this dilemma, either the
criminality was not so great that it ought to entail his
dismissal from the office in your lordships' house, or if the
criminality was sufficient to justify their saying he (Mr.
Edmunds) was not fit to be employed in the public service,
then he ought not to have received a pension. But the pe-
tition for a pension was presented by the noble and learned
lord himself. The noble and learned lord had himself ad-
judged or decided that it was the duty of the house to dis-
miss Mr. Leonard Edmunds ; and he must, consequently,
have been of opinion that he was not entitled to receive
the perision. Yet, being so convinced, he is the person who
presents the petition to the House of Lords. (Hear, hear.)
He is the person who lays the petition on the table, and by
his sanction the committee is appointed to inquire under
ordinary circumstances whether Mr. Edmund; after 18
years' service in that house, is entitled to a pension. I say,
under the circumstance; a committee of your lordships'
house ought to have been appointed to consider first,
whether Mr. Edmunds merited dismissal at all ; and next,
assuming that he did, whether he was entitled to any pen-
sion. If the noble and learned lord will excuse me for say-
ing so, what he calls a case of notoriety is one with which
we are even now very imperfectly acquainted, although Mr.
Edmunds has been dismissed and another gentleman ap-
pointed in his place, an appointment about which I have
nothing to say, knowing as I do nothing of the merits or de-
merits of the gentleman who has been placed very suddenly
in the office of reading clerk. My complaint is that when
the resignation had been accepted the merits of the case
as affecting the petition for a pension were not laid before
a committee, and we are now told that a pension having
been granted, it may be applied in liquidation of any
debt that may remain. There are various other rumours
connected with this office, and the cause of Mr. Ed-
munds's embarrassment and resignation, to which I will
not allude ; they involve serious charges against persons
in very high positions ; and I think the inquiry
should be of such a searching character that all the
circumstances should be placed fully before the committee,
and, if necessary, before the public. I know it is impossible
fairly to discuss this question, but you will pardon me for
saying that if the noble and learned lord has had an oppor-
tunity of laying his case before your lordships it is rather
hard on behalf of a gentleman whose character has been
impugned on such high authority, that even a suggestion
should not be made to your lordships to mitigate, if not
counteract, the ex-parte statement against him. (Hear,
hear.) I have had no communication with Mr. Leonard
Edmunds. I have seen a copy of the answer sent in to the
first statement ; but I have no motive whatever nor ill-
feeling against the noble and learned lord on the woolsack,
from whom I have received nothing but personal courtesy
and kindness, for which I am most grateful. I only ask
you not hastily to condemn, in his absence, an officer who
has not had an opportunity of making a statement to you,
and that you will adopt the very fair, straightforward, and
manly proposition of the noble and learned lord of allow-
ing the whole matter to be referred to a committee.
The LORD CHANCELLOR—The noble earl has said
that I had decided before the meeting of Parliament that
Mr. Edmunds should be dismissed. That was the very
thing that I did not decide, and the very thing that the
noble lord should have felt that I had carefully abstained
from deciding. I referred the subject, when I thought I
had the power, to Lord Cranworth and Lord Kingsdown,
and when I found that I had not the power I proposed to
lay the papers before the house, and refer a to a commit-
tee to decide upon the matter. And yet lam told by the
noble lord' that he does not wish to discuss the matter
otherwise than fairly.

The Earl of DERBY—I understand that the noble and
learned lord told Mr. Edmunds that the whole case would
be brought before the house unless he anticipated this by
resigning his office.
Lord REDESDALE said that the committee to which
Mr. Edmunds's petition was referred was one of the stand-
ing committees of the house, and not one appointed, for the
purpose. They had no information as to what had taken
place in regard to the Patent-office, and their recommenda-
tion that a pension should be given to Mr. Edmunds was
founded entirelyon the manner in which he had discharged
his duties in that house.

The Marquis of BATH understood that the Lord Chan-
cellor had charged the committee with having acted hastily.
The LORD CHANCELLOR—I made no charge, nor did
I intend to insinuate anything of the kind.
The Marquis of BATH said that his Lordship had said
that the circumstances of Mr. Edmunds's resignation were
notorious, and that he expected to have received a request
for information.

The LORD CHANCELLOR—What I said was this, and
the noble Marquis might have recollected it, that I did not
for one moment intend to insinuate anything or to cast the
least charge against the members of the committee. These
were the very words I used, and I carefully abstained from
saying that they acted otherwise than rightly.
The Duke of- MONTROSE thought there had been
neglect on the part of the Lord Chancellor and of the Go-
vernment in not having laid such important information
before the committee.

Earl GRA.NVILLE depricated any further discussion of
the subject at tht time. It would be fully investigated by
the committee which would be appointed.
, The Earl of DERBY proposed that the reference to the
committee should direct them to inquire into "the circum-
stances, connected with Mr. Edmunds's appointment to and
bolding of his office."
Earl GRANVILLE said that the Govermient did not
desire to keep back anything, and he dared say these
matters would come before the committee, but, he thought
it would not be a dignified proceeding to order the com-
mittee to inquireipto rumours which were not even dis-
tinctly stated.

The Earl of DERBY would not press his proposition if
he received a distinct understanding -that inquiry on the
subject to which he -referred should not be stopped, if it
arose in the course of the proceedings of the committee.
EarI,GRANVIIJ,E had no hesitation in saying, on the
part of the Government, that not only had they no wish to
stop inquiry, but they wished to promote it in every way.

After a few words from Lord REDESDALE and Lord
CoLmasTEn,
The Earl of DERBY proposed that the committee should
be directed to inquire also into the resignation by Mr.
Edmunds of his offices of clerk of patents and of clerk to
the patent commissioners.

The LORD CHANCELLOR said that he had no objec-
tion to that.

The motion, with this amendment, was then agreed to.
The Game Licences (Ireland) Bill passed through corn-
mittee.

The Bankruptcy and Insolvency (Ireland) Bill was read
a second time.

The house adjourned at five minutes before seven o'clock

HOUSE OF COMMONS—LAST EVENING.
The SPEAKEB. took the chair at four o'clock.
NEW MEMBER.

The OTONOGIIIIE took the oaths and his seat on his
election for the borough of Tralee, and was introduced by
Mr. Longfield and Mr. Hennessy.

PUBLIC BUSINESS.

The following bills were read a second time :—Bristol
and North Somerset Railway (Bristol and Bath Lines);
Garth Quarry Railways ; Peterborough, Wisbeach, and
Sutton Railway ; S tonehouse and Nails worth Railway ;
Goole, Keadby, and Haney Junction Railway.