The Sun.
London, England, 1862-04-01 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARL LAMENT.

HOUSE OF COMMONS—YESTERDAY.
THE MERRIMAC AND MONITOR.
Sir F. SMITH called the attention of the Secretary of
State for War to the reports of an engagement between ax.
American iron-clad frigate in the naval service of the Con-
federate States, called the " Merrimac," and an iron gun-
boat, called the "Monitor," in the naval service of the
Federal States, having a shot-proof roof; and to ask whether,
in consequence of the results of that action, it will not be
prudent to suspend the construction of some of the pro-
posed forts at Spithead until the value of such iron-roofed
gunboats for the defence of our ports and roadsteads shall
have been fully considered. Having alluded to the actions
in which these vessels were engaged he contended that we
could not rely on our fortifications to prevent Portsmouth
and other ports being bombarded by similar vessels. He
trusted that Government would not at present go further
with the works in course of construction, and which would
cost the country £2,000,000. He thought it would be better
under the circumstances if they paid for the forfeiture of
their contracts. Whatever difference of opinion
there might be on other pedal", there was no
doubt they had been wrong in constructing
forts at Spithead, but they had hot gone too far to retrace
their steps. They would not be able to man these forts
even with the assistance of the Volunteers, while
the gunboats could be easily manned and would
prove . of the most efficient character in the event
of an invasion. He alluded to the Monitor, which
after several hours' exposure to a fire from a fort and vessels
had sustained no injury, though some of the balls directed
against her were of the largest calibre.
Mr. LAIRD said he should like to offer a few observa-
tions before the noble lord answered the question. He
had long been an advocate for the adoption of iron in the
building of all vessels in her Majesty's navy. Objections
had been raised to building small vessels of this kind, but
the success of the Monitor had settled that question, and
had shown even that small vessels were able to resist large
ones. And although not fit for sea, she was safe on a
short voyage. At any rate, the Monitor saved the credit
of the American navy, for had she not been there the
Merrimac would have destroyed all the wooden ships
in the harbour. (Hear, hear.) When they looked
and saw the difficulties that had always been raised
against the adoption of any new principle, they could
not wonder that there were objections made to going a
step farther than they had hitherto done, and constructing
the entire navy of this country of iron. Until they did that,
he felt convinced they would not be able to reduce the ex
penditure for dockyards. They would then be able to do
away with the stock of timber which lay rotting frequently
in the yards. They would merely have to order the iron as
they required it, and they could build their ships by con-
tract if they chose. The adoption of this plan would lead
to a reduction of their establishment charges, and enable
them to know for a certainty what the naval expenditure of
the country would be. The objections to the general adop-
tion of iron merged into this question, that they could not
build a small class of :iron vessels for. foreign service be-
cause of the fouling. The only remedy for that, and the
cheapest in the end, would be to construct graving docks
at our foreign stations. The expense of these would be
small compared with the cost of bringing ships home for
repair, as was necessary whenever the slightest accident
occurred. He was borne out in this opinion by Admiral
Robinson, the Comptroller of the Navy, who stated in his
evidence last year, " Give me good graving docks, and one
ship will do the work of two." Until they adopted some plan
of this kind it was impossible that our steam navy could be
kept in an efficient state. He hoped, after what had taken
place in America, that the Government would be induced
to pay more attention to the matter, and that they would
pause before they proceeded further in building a large
number of small wooden vessels which would be utterly
useless, and unable to cope with such vessels as they
might meet on foreign shores.
Mr. GREGORY believed that the money expended upon
the fortresses would be worse than wasted, and called upon
the Government to look the matter in the face; to be pre-
pared for an entirely new state of things, that would revo-
lutionise our navy, and to divert the expenditure intended
fur useless fortifications to the construction of iron Moni-
tors.

Sir J HAY said his opinion, as to the necessity
of the forts at Spithead, had changed. He now thought it
would be better to spend the money on vessels of the new
construction, moveable forts being more available than
fixed fortifications.
After some further discussion,
Sir G. LEWIS observed that two questions had been
raised in this discussion—one, as to the expediency of stop-
ping the construction of the forts at Spithead ; the other,
whether we should alter the whole character of our naval
defences. Upon the latter question he warned the house
against entering upon so large a discussion at present ; the
practical result of the suggested revolutionary change in
our naval defences might be a supplementary estimate of
£10,00',000 or £15,000,000. With regard to the first ques-
tion, it was identical with that brought before the Defence
Commission, which, in a careful report, expressed an opin-
ion that the best plan of defence was a combined system of
forts and iron-cased vessels. Had any addition been made
to our knowledge which should alter that conclusion? Not
speaking on his own authority, but from information he
had received, he was led to think that the engagement be-
tween the American vessels threw little light upon the
qualities of iron-cased ships. He expected, however, that
the ingenuity of engineers would be stimulated to invent
machines that would smash such ships attacking our
coasts, and he hoped they would soon be able to attain that
result.
Mr. BRIGHT said the speech of Sir G. Lewis was not
very satisfactory; he had said nothing to the propositions
of Sir F. Smith. However important the occurrence in
America, it would be an unfortunate thing if it led to a
naval reconstruction. There was a certain amount of
proof that batteries would be of no use to prevent iron-
cased vessels like the Monitor from entering Portsmouth
harbour, and the question was whether it was right to
spend more money upon fortifications that might be use-
less. He agreed that nothing appeared to have been con-
cluded ; but the probability was that something was con-
cluded, and surely the Chancellor of the Exchequer might
be asked to support the proposition in the Cabinet not to
commit the country further to the expenditure of millions.
Captain JERVIS expressed a hope that the Government
would reconsider the question of the construction of the
forts.

Mr. OSBORNE called upon the Government to suspend
works which would be not only expensive, but might prove
unnecessary. The house should insist upon their not spend-
ing another shilling upon the forts until we were in a con-
dition to know they would be able to hold their own against
the monsters of the deep.
Sir J. PAKINGTON must say that the present most
important question had been raised very ably and clearly
and in a very kindly spirit by the hon. and gallant member
for Chatham (Sir F. Smith), The question was one of great
importance ; but it was not, as had been said, an Admiralty
question—it was whether or not, considering the tidings
that had been lately received from America, her Majesty's
Government were determined, without any cause whatever,
to proceed with the construction of the forts at Spitheadf
He entirelyagreed with the right hon. gentleman the Secre-
tary of State for War, that it would not be wise, in the tran-
sition state in which they then were, to be led away by every
report that reached them ; but, on the other hand, it would
be impossible to deny that the erection of these forts was
not a most wise mode of defending Spithead (Hear.)
They were, however, now in a transition state, and he must
say that the Government would do well to consider the
whole question in relation to the events which had recently
occurred on the other side of the Atlantic.
Lord C. PAGET admitted the importance of what had
occurred on the other side of the Atlantic, but they were not,
in his opinion, of a nature to set aside plans wtich had been
materially agreed upon. Now what was the case ? They had
shown in this country some time since that vessels with a
certain thickness of iron armour would resist certain weight
of shot propelled against them. They had tried experi-
ments at Shoeburyness, and the result was that they had
ceased to build wooden ships, and were now building iron-
cased ships. But they had learned something more, they
had learnt that iron-cased ships
.could run down wooden-
built ships, and cut them down. All their iron-cased ships

scotefdthweiitrhensuemffitceise.nt
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•
the constinctib:n of such vessels the Government had been
directing for the lab:t three years. He could assure the house
and the hon. member for Birkenhead (Mr. Laird) that
there was not, so far as he %V:" aware of, any intention on
the part of her Majesty's GoTb:rnment to bring in a sup-
plementary naval estimate this sesslo.:l' The hon. gentle-
man seemed to think that the Goveriunent 01eant to propose
a supplementary estimate for £10,000.000 ; Lut such was
not the case so far as he was aware of. He says pot
your wooden vessels and build docks in your distant
islands.
Mr, LAIRD—I said distinctly our foreign endow:.
Lord C. PAGET wished the house to consider that the
navy of England was powerful for defence; but when they
were told that they were to give up their fortifications he
telt that the time was not yet come when they ought to do
that. With regard to ships and fortifications, all nava
men say that they regard ships as preferable to fortifications
as means of defence. But he must look and ask where they
were to find shelter for their merchant ships, 10,000 01
which would be running in time of war for shelter into that
beat of all ports. Ile believed they would require to have
iron-cased ships for the defence of their ports ; but he con-
tended that nothing that had occurred on the other side of
the Atlantic was of a nature to call upon them to suspend
their fortifications, and to build still larger iron-cased ships
There must be limit to the weight and quantity cf guns on
board those ships ; but there was no limit as to their weight
in relation to fortifications, for if they could construct guns
to carry shot a thousand pounds Weight, and place them in
their fortifications, the effect would be the more important.
But they would never be able to construct ships that would
be equal to carry such a weight of guns. With respect to
the Channel and Spithead, he was bound to say that Sir
Richard Dundas, who had been quoted, always considered
that fortifications were necessary for the defence of Spit-

"tor

Mr. BENTINCK, though he thought there had bet a
good deal of exaggeration on both sides in the discussion,
considered that the time had come for reconsidering the
question as to the defence of Spithead.
Mr. CONINGEIAM protested most strongly against
throwing away money upon the forts.

THE OTTOMAN LOAN.
Orr the question being again put, that the house should
go into committee of supply,
Mr. BUI3BARD called attention to the participation
of Her Majesty's Government in the proposals for
an Ottowan loan, suggesting that the Government had
gone too far, and laid a ground for a future claim upon the
Governments.
Lord PAL MERSTON gave an explanation of the
transaction, observing that Lord Russell had acted with
prudence in a matter affecting the financial condition of a
friendly Power, in whose welfare England felt a deep in-
terest. Until the finances of Turkey were placed in a
healthy condition, so that the Sultan could pay his way, he
would be unable to carry into effect those social, financial,
and religious improvements which he was anxious to accom-
plish. If Turkey became an independent and commercial
country, and a strong and well-administered Government
were established there, it would greatly contribute to the
peace of Europe, and her Majesty's Government, in aiding
those objects, would be doing their duty.
In reply to a question by Mr. STANSFIELD,
Mr. LAYARD gave explanations respecting the pro-
ceedings of Austria in the Sutorina.
The house then went into committee upon the Civil Ser-
vice Estimates, and various resolutions were agreed to and
ordered to be reported.
On the vote of £84,661 for royal parks and pleasure
grounds,
Colonel DUNNE protested against the continuance o
the large annual outlay for the metropilitan parks, to which
the term "Royal" could in no sense be applied. In order
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park.

The committee, after some discussion, divided, when
there voted :
For the reduction
Against it
Majority
EDUCATION.—THE REVISED CODE.
On the order of the day for going into committee on this
subject,
Lord PALMERSTON said,—l propose that this ques-
tion be taken on Monday, the sth of May, a week s►fter the
day on which the house will meet after the Easter recess.
(Hear, hear.)
Mr. WALPOLE said, as far as he could hear, there was
no objection to the day which the noble viscount had fixed ;
but it had been mentioned on Friday night that it would be
very desirable that the Government amendments .on the
Revised Code should be laid on the table as early as might be
convenient, in order that the house and the country might
have time to consider the details of those amend meats.
(Hear.) Ho would therefore ask that the noble viscount
should say that he would be prepared within a reasonable
time to lay the amendments on the table. (Hear, hear.)
It was then agreed to go into committee on the subject
on the sth of May.
COPYRIGHT (WORKS OF AhT) BILL.
On the motion for the third reading of the Copyright
(Works of Art) Bill.
Mr. DILLWYN suggested that the subject required
more consideration, and moved to defer the third reading
for six months.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL was of opinion that the
matter had been sufficiently considered, and explained and
defended the provisions of the bill.
The amendment having been withdrawn, the bill was read
a third time and passed.
In committee on the Red Sea and India Telegraph Cora-
pany,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, after a
short explanation of the arrangements made for giving en-
couragement for a fresh attempt to accomplish a useful ob-
ject, moved a resolution for charging the annuity to the
company upon the Consolidated Fund.
The resolution, after some discussion, was agreed to.
The Merchant Shipping Acts, &c., Amendment Bill was
read a second time, with the understanding that its principle
might be discussed on the motion for going into committee
on the bill.
Mr. C. FORTESCUE, in moving the second reading of
the Writs of Habeas Corpus into her Majesty's Possessions
Abroad Bill, received from the Lords, explained the object
and effect of the measure, the necessity of which had grown
out of the case of the slave Anderson.
The bill was read a second time, after a short discussion.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, moved a
resolution, th ,t there should be a standing committee, to be
designated "The Committee of Public Accnunts," for the
examination of the accounts showing the appropriation of
the sums granted by Parliament to meet the public expen-
d iture.

The motion was agreed to.
The house adjourned at 2 o'clock:

ARTISTS' BENEVOLENT INSTITUTION.

At the 47th annual festival of this institution,
held on Saturday at the Freemasons' Tavern, the
chair was taken by Mr. Charles Dickens, who made
an interesting speech. He began by stating that
seven or eight years ago, without the smallest ex-
pectation of ever being called on to fill the chair at
an anniversary festival of the Artists' General
Benevolent Institution, and without the remotest
reference to such an occasion, he had selected the
administration of that society as the model on
which he desired that another society should be
reformed,l:,both as regarded the delicate mode in
which its relief was afforded and the singular
economy with which its funds were adminis-
tered. As a proof of the latter quality, he
stated that the cost of distributing nearly £:2,000
among the recipients of the bounty of the charity
in the past year amounted to no more than £lOO,
inclusive of all office charges and expenses. The
experience and knowledge of those intrusted -with
the management of the funds were, he said, a
guarantee that the last available farthing of the
funds would be distributed among proper and de-
serving recipients. Claiming on his part to be
related in some sort to the profession of an artist,
he disdained to stoop to ask for charity in the ordi-
nary acceptation of the the term on behalf of the
artists. In its broader and higher signification,
of generous confidence, lasting trustfulness, love,
and confiding belief, he very readily associated
that cardinal virtue with art. He declined to pre-
sent the artist to the notice of the public as a
grown-up child, or as a strange, unaccountable,
moon-stricken person, waiting helplessly in the
street of life to be helped over the road by the
crossing-sweeper. On the contrary, he presented
the artist as a reasonable creature, a sensible
gentleman, and as one quite as well acquainted with
the value of his time and that of other people as if
he were in the habit of going on high 'Change every
day. The artist whom he wished to present to the
notice of the meeting was one to whom. the perfect
s enti a
couldl toga everyin
no
aecnjhoieyvmemenetnotfotfhheisfivliefes.ensThe was
artist e
wealth nor fame by buying something which he
s
never touched, and selling it to another who Would
also never touch or see it, but was compelled to
strike out for himself every spark of fire which
burned, lighted, and perhaps consumed him. He
must win the battle o' life with his own hand and
with his own eyes, and was obliged to act as general
commanding-in-chief, captain, ensign,
non-commis-
sioned officer, private, drummer, great arms, small
arms, infantry, cavalry, all in his own unaided self.
When therefore he asked help for the artist, he did not
woke his appeal for one who was a cripple from his
birth, 130 he asked it as part payment of a great
debt which all sensible and civilised creatures owed
to art; as a mark of respect to art—as a decoration,
not as a badge ; as a remembrancer of what this
land or any land would be without art, and as a
token of our appreciation of the works of the most
successful artists of htis country.

APPREHENSION OF A LIVERPOOL NOTABLE.—Mra.
Gallagher, the reputed owner of several notorious houses in
this town, kept by persons in her employment, but who has
hitherto escaped the clutches of the police, hag at length
been apprehended. Her connexion with cases
which
othershave been prosecuted and punished, while she re-
mained unseen and unpunished, was the cause of consider-
in
able scandal and much insidious remark. To clear up any
misunderstanding on the subject, a warrant was obtained
some time ago and transmitted to London, where she was
takeninto custody on Friday. She was thence transmitted
to Liverpool, and arrived here on Saturday night about 11
o'clock, She resided in a handsome establishment at
Eltbam-place, Foxley-road, Brixton, and, it is said, com-
plained much of the indignitY of being taken into custody.
The name she went byin London was Mercer ; and she will
be brought before Mr. Railer this morning to answer the
charge made against her.—Liverpool Albion.

head. It was true that Sir Richard Dundee recor amended,
in reference to iron-cased ships, that they sb_ontld direc
their earliest attention to the construction of such ships.
Well, they had not neglected their construction, although
the house had been told that the Admiralty had dono
nothing. The hon. member for Liskeard (Mr. Osborne)
gave the house to understand that he (Lord C. Paget) had
been opposed to the principle of Captain Cooper Coles'
ships; but that was not so.