The Sun.
London, England, 1862-02-22 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 22, 1862.

tween M. Thouvenel and Signor Nigra. He (Mr. Griffith)
wished to know what had been the conduct of our Govern-
ment in the matter. It did not appear to him that, looking
at the proceeding from one point of view, there was any
thing reprehensible in the conduct of either the people or
the Government of Italy. (Hear, hear.) He did not
think that any assembly of Englishmen could disapprove
of what had been done. (Hear.) The relations of France
with the Holy See seemed to be very peculiar. The latter
had recently published a requisition to the Roman Catholic
bishops of Christendom to assemble at Rome on the Ist of
May, to celebrate the canonisation of the martyrs of Japan.
(A laugh.) But the French Government expressed its
regret that this intimation should have been given, and in-
timated that no French bishop should receive passports for
Rome except on urgent diocesan business. He was
anxious to hear that the Government had not given any
countenance to the belief that the expression of opinion
by the Italian people had given umbrage in this country.
(Hear, hear.) There was a society that pervaded all Italy,
called the Italian Unity Society, and the Florence
branch had only the other day proposed to Genoa that they
should petition to have that part of the constitution abo-
lished which declared the Roman Catholic religion to be the
religion of the State. (Hear.) He hoped that our Govern-
ment had not allowed itself to be mixed up with that of
France, and he was anxious to hear so much from the First
Lord of the Treasury.
Lord PALMERSTON—It is quite true, as the hon.
member states, that in almost every part of Italy there have
been strong manifestations of the earnest desire of the people
that Rome should be the central capital of the Italianking-
dom, and that the temporal power of the Pope should cease.
(Cheers.) And nowhere, I believe, is the feeling so strongly
exhibited as in the city of Rome itself. (Hear.) But her
Majesty's Government had taken no part with regard to
this feeling, nor have they given any instruction to Sir Jas.
Hudson to make remonstrances to the Government of Turin.
So far as we are aware, Sir J. Hudson has taken no such
step on his own authority, and therefore we believe that
there is no truth in the report that Sir Jas. Hudson went
to Baron Ricasoli to remonstrate on the manifestations of
feeling that had taken place. (Hear.)
LEICESTER-SQUARE.

Sir W. JOLLIFFE rose to ask the First Commissioner
of Works whether there was any prospect of as early im •
provement in Leicester-square. Some time since, he said,
the centre was occupied with a large building, but recently
the " crack of doom" had reached the edifice, and the squara
was filled with every kind of filth, rags, shavings, and other
disgusting matter?, so that when the foreigners come over
to see our exhibition they would hardly believe that we had
been doing much in the way of sanitary improvement.
Such a state of things was a serious nuisanee, and he thought
that some remedial measures should be taken. He wanted
to know from the Chief Commissioner of Works whether it
was the intention of Government to interfere.
Mr. COWPER—I quite agree with the hon. baronet that
the foreigners visiting London next summer would be shocked
with the appearance of Leicester-square, which was at pre-
sent the stigma and opprobrium of the metropolis. The
case was, however, rather mysterious, and he was afraid he
could not give any satisfactory account of it. It appeared
that there was some doubt as to the legal estate in the soil,
and all the parties concerned in the ownership of the square
agreed to allow a building, which they were told would be
temporary and ornamental—, (a laugh)—to be erected. It
had turned out, however, to be more permanent than they
had expected. He should certainly be glad if anything could
be done to remedy the present state of things. He could
only say that if he saw his way to any means of making the
square as ornamental as other squares of the metropolis, he
would be very glad to adopt it. The last thing any one
would wish to see with respect to any of the squares was
that they should be built upen. It was very desirable that
the example of the benchers of the Temple should be fol-
lowed, and greater facilities given to the public by the
throwing open of the squares. (Hear.)
SUPPLY.

The house then went pro firma into committee of supply
and immediately resumed.
FAIRS AND MARKETS (IRELAND) BILL.
_ _ . _

Sir It. PEEL moved the second reading of the Fairs and
Markets (Ireland) Bill.
Mr. M‘MAHON opposed the second reading principally
on the ground that it made it compulsory on farmers to pay
toll immediately on bringing their etock or farm produce to
market. It often happened that stock would be brought to
several markets before it was sold, and therefore the Irish
farmer would labour under a grievance which he would
constantly feel, and be placed in a different position from
farmers in England, where the rule was that the buyer paid
the tolls. Successive chief (secretaries had failed to carry
similar bills, and he believed that the measure was not called
for by the country.
Lord NAAS said that the hon. gentleman was mistaken
as to the feeling of the people of Ireland on this subject.
When he (Lord Naas) had the honour of filling the office
which the right hon. baronet now holds, the very
great abuses which existed in fairs and markets were
brought under the consideration of the Lord-Lieutenant
and in the year 1852 a commission was issued to inquire into
the matter. The result of the investigation was to show
that a system of fraud existed, and if the hon. member had
read the report of the commissioners he would see that
legislation on the ettbjeet wee imperotiooly cleoloohclal. go
far from there being indifference on the subject in Ireland,
on the part of the general public there was a :cry from one
end of the country to the other for some such measure. The
present bill differed only in the machinery which it proposed
from that which he had himself introduced. He believed
it to be sound in principle, and there would be another and
more fitting opportunity for considering its details.
Lord DUNKELLIN said he could corroborate what his
noble friend had said as to the grievances to which both
buyers and sellers were subject under the old system. The
principle of the bill was good, and whatever differences
existed as to details might be settled in committee.
Mr. LONGFIELD thought that while accommodation
should be provided for the public the rights of the toll
owners should be fairly dealt with. The bill as a whole
would prove beneficial, and he hoped the right hen, gentle-
man would persevere with it.
Mr. SCULLY was rejoiced to be able to give his full
assent to the bill. The bill was an exact transcript of the
results to which 14 Irish gentlemen had arrived in commit-
tee, and therefore it could not with any accuracy be called
the bill of the present or proceeding Government. The
principle of the bill was that those who took the tolls should
provide accommodation, which seemed to be just. He hoped
the bill would be read a second time.

Mr• HASSARD supported the measure.
Mr. BRADY objected to the clause which rendered it
necessary that the corn or other commodity to be purchased
in the markets of Ireland should be weighed at a publis
weigh-house. This was not the state of the law of England.
He considered this regulation to be highly cppressive.
Major KNOX supported the bill. _ _

Sir R, PEEL intimated his intention to persevere with
the bill, notwithstanding the almost solitary opposition of
the hon. member for 'Wexford. He thought the provisions
of the bill necessary to prevent oppression and extortion. It
was quite a mistake to say that the bill had been taken out
of a pigeon-hole in the Castle and thrown on the table of
the house. That was quite a mistake; the details of the
bill had been very carefully considered. He was sorry to
hear from the noble lord that a lady was the owner of the
fair at Donnybrook. Notwithstanding the apparent want
of gallantry of the step, he must persist in preventing her
from holding that fair. The bill was really so much wanted
that the great object was to press it forward, (Hear.)
The bill was then read a second time, and the committee
ordered for the 20th March.
POOR RELIEF (IRELAND) (No. 2) BILL.
This bill was read a second time.
QUALIFICATION FOR OFFICES ABOLITION

bankmen and metropolitan funds account, but owing to
some defect in that bill, or some arrangement of the Bank
of England, the money had never been paid over, and it
was, therefore, still standing in the name of the Commis-
sioners of Woks and Public Buildings. He now, therefore,
proposed to introduce a bill simply to give power to the
Commissioners of Works to sell their stock, and hand it
over to the Metropolitan Board of Works for the construc-
tion of these works. He thought the money could not be
better employed than in making this road. (Hear.) It
would, to all intents and purposes, be a public highway, and
would be separated from the park and gardens by a fence.
Sir M. PETO pledged his practical experience that the
works in question could not be executed in time for the
opening of the Exhibition. He suggested that they should
use the existing road across the park, making a slight junc-
tion at the back of the powder magazine.
Lord PALMERSTON saidthere were two things which
almost every body admitted. One was that a better access
to the Exhibition, which was to be open at the beginning
of May, should be made, and that a permanent communi-
cation should be made between the town on the north and
the town on the south of the park. His right hon. friend
proposed to bring in a bill for this purpose. His hon. friend
(Sir M. Peto) said it could not be done within the time.
Well, that was a question between the Metropolitan Board
of Works and the contractor. If there was a contractor
who was willing to complete the work by the Ist of May, or
the Ist of June, which would probably be little time enough,
they all knew the work could be accomplished in a much
less time than those who were not accustomed to works of
this kind might expect. However, the question was that
leave be giien to bring in this bill, and he hoped that the
house would agree to it. The matter was of importance,
and ought to be discussed in a fuller house. He trusted
the house would give leave to bring in the bill, reserving
the future discussion. It was said, " Why not take advan-
tage of the present roads." But the present roads did not
exist (laughter)—because what was wanted was a commu-
nication from north to south. He trusted that his right
hon. friend would be permitted to bring in the bill, when it
could be subsequently discussed in its details.
Mr. OSBORNE would prefer taking the consolidated
fund rather than the parochial view of this question. They
had heard the hon. member for Finsbury, who had made
the Balaklava-road, and knew something about earthworks,
tell the skeleton of a house that the estimate was ridicu-
lous. Why, the road was to be two miles long.
Mr. COWPER—Three-quarters of a mile.
Mr. OSBORNE—The right hon. member undertook to
make the road for £30,000, and in two months ; but would
he bind himself to these terms ? Besides, what necessity
was there for this road ? They had not any extra road for
the last Exhibition, but the right hon. gentleman said that
the one now proposed would be a street out from Australia.
(Laughter.) He (Mr. Osborne) could notlexplain the inte-
rest which the right hon. gentleman took in that distant
colony, but his cry was, " What will the Australians say
if this road is not made ?" (Laughter.) He believed the
right hon. gentleman knew it would not be made in the
time or for the money, and therefore the best way would be
for the house to reject this great Government earthwork,
which he supposed was to be the great thing of the session.
He called upon that attenuated house, if they had any
spirit, to throw out the bill at once, and let them have a
temporary road for the exhibition.
The committee divided, when there appeared,—
For the resolution
Against it
Majority
The division showing that, with the four tellers, not more
than 33 members were present,
Mr. MASSEY quitted the chair, and acquainted the
Speaker with this result.
The SPEAKER immediately counted the house again,
and, finding that only 30 members were then present, de-
clared the house adjourned at 20 minutes past 12 o'clock.

RAILWAY INTELLIGENCE.

LONDON AND NORTH-WESTERN.

The half-yearly meeting of this company was
held yesterday at the Euston Station—Mr. R.
Moon in the chair.

Mr. C. E. Stewart, the secretary, read the notice
convening the meeting.
The report, an abstract of which has appeared in
The Sun, was taken as read.
The CHAIRMAN, in moving the adoption of the
report, said he regretted that they were unable to
present them with a better dividend than 4f, per
cent. per annum for the past half-year. The items '
of maintenance of way and repairs of rolling stock
had been largely increased in consequence of the
very severe winter of last year. They had also to
expend money in the renewal and repairs of the
permanent way of the Lancaster and Carlisle and
South Staffordshire Railways. Like most other
lines, they had been worked down considerably,
and they had, therefore, to work them up again to
a satisfactory condition. The locomotive and other
stock handed over to them with the South Stafford-
shire and Birkenhead Railways had involved a sum
of £lO,OOO or £12,000 for renewals and repairs.
The traffic to the Mersey had increased, and out of
an additional expenditure of £13,000 £4,000 was
for additional lighterage on the Mersey. They had
to expend a considerable sum for the purpose of
developing the traffic. On the Ist of January
last they took on their hands the working of
the Camden-town and_other goods stations in Lon-
don, and he hoped it would bring them into closer
contact with their customers. With regard to
losses for compensation in 1860 and 1861, they
were acting in concert with other companies
to bring about a modification of the law with
regard to compensation for accidents, (Hear,
hear.) They proposed that the liability should be
limited in some way as that adopted in the Mer-
cantile shipping Act. They would perceive in the
accounts that in the item of law expenses they had
added this half-year a sum of £5,000 to the usual
amount, and they thought it would completely clear
off all arrears, and place them in an advantageous
position in future. They had hoped, under the
arrangements they had made for having a lawyer
and his staff on the spot, they would be enabled to
attend to law matters more readily and advantage-
ously for the company. He then called attention
to a number of bills that were before Parliament
for various schemes more or less opposed to the
London and North Western Railway. The extent
of their proposed operation had to be ascertained,
and that of course involved considerable expense.
There was one company that sought running powers
over the Great Western, Chester and Holyhead, the
North-Western and other lines between Wallasey
Pool and Chester. He hoped the subject would
attract the attention of the Legislature, and that it
would be thrown out on the second reading. He
trusted that some standing ordt r woutd be estab-
lished that would compel parties who attempted to
injure the property of other companies, and failed
in obtaining Parliamentary powers to do so, to pay
the expenses of those companies who were com-
pelled to defend their property. There were some
bills in Parliament of very serious character as re-
spected their railway. There were bills for the
amalgamation of the North-Eastern and Newcastle
and Carlisle, on the one part, and the Stockton and
Darlington, Eden Valley, and South Durham, on
the other part. There was an agreement between
those companies to work together and embrace the
whole district through which the lines of those com-
panies ramified. There was also a bill promoted by
the Midland for extending the Rowsley and Buxton
line to New Mills, and thence to join the Sheffield near
Manchester. This was a duplicate line to Buxton, and
to Stockport, Disley, and Whaleybridge, and of
course they were opposed to that line. The Board
had been endeavouring to work in amity with
their neighbours, to cultivate and develops the
traffic on their lines, and to reduce the work-
ing expenditure, They had entered into an agree-
ment with the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway
Company, which, he trusted, would enable both
companies to work their traffic at less expense than
when they were in fierce competition. (Hear.)
With respect to the traffic involved in that agree-
ment, it amounted to between £500,000 and
£1,000,000 par annum, and had at last been settled
after a very long negotiation.
Mr. G. P. B. IA
v:ESTHEAD,
M.P., deputy-chair-
man, seconded the motion for the adoption of the
report,

Mr. MICIIELL said, with regard to the dividend
he thought the proprietors were prepared to take
less than the directors now proposed to give them.
The proprietors had no doubt been so well schooled
and disciplined that they felt resigned to any divi-
dend that could be offered to them. While they
had a loss of
£3,560 in the receipts during the past
half-year, they were actually worse by £70,000 as
to the money that would go into their pockets. He
carried a large amount of traffic that
wfeaasreudiutehyme
unerative. He could see no reason for
expending 4 —66,000 on stations, and £lOO,OOO for
carrying stock. To make an increased outlay with
a failing traffic was not the way to increase a divi-
dend.

IVIT. WRIGLEY said he believed the directors

were as anxious ,as the shareholders to earn and
pay good dividends. They would be glad to do so
if they knew how. He knew no other way of
discovering the cause of the falling off in their
dividends than by taking a retrospective view of
their past proceedings. Up to December, 1856,
they had expended £32,713,000 on capital account;
and to December, 1861, £36,759,000. From
December, 1856, to December, 1861, was a period
of five years, in which they had expended
£4,000,000, or, in other words, they had increased
their capital 121 per cent. It was not possible for
them to increase their capital profitably. The traffic
for the half-year ending December, 1856,
amounted to £1,875,000, and ending December,
1861, to £2,455,300. Now, during that time the
capital had increased £4,000,000, or 121 per cent.,
the traffic had increased £580,000, or 303, per cent.,
so that the traffic had increased in a far greater
ratio than the capital. The gross charges against
revenue were for the half-year ending December,
1856, £1,197,000, and for the second half of 1861,
£1,944,006. The increase of expenses, therefore,
was £746,562, or 621 per cent. These figures
showed that the capital had increased 12i per cent.,
the traffic 303; per cent., the expenses 621 per cent.
It was not the want of traffic, for they had too
much of that already. If they had less traffic and
fewer branches they would be much better off. The
traffic increased faster than the capital, but the ex-
penses went on fearfully. He felt very much dis-
satisfied with their proceedings. He knew there
were directors at the board who would be glad to
see a better return on the capital, and he believed
that no man on the board was more desirous than
the chairman to achieve a satisfactory result.
(Hear.) He (Mr. Wrigley) hoped that a better
state of things would soon be biaught about. They
had 1,200 miles of railway, and it was impossible
for any one man to grasp the whole. Every year
must be worse than the preceding until the present
system was altered. He recommended the directors
to divide the concern into workable sections, and
have qualified persons accountable for the success of
each section, Then let the result be reported to
head-quarters, and the proper means be taken to
discover the cause of the reduction in their dividends.

Mr. HEALY, in an eloquent speech, complained of
the great changes that were being made in the
various departments, and suggested that a committee
of consultation should be appointed to interpose
their good offices between the directors and some of
the officers of the company.
Mr. NUNN and other proprietors contended that
the shareholders had no right whatever to interfere
between the directors and the officers of the company.

After some observations with regard to working
the passenger, goods, and mineral traffic by Mr.
Blado, Mr. Rutland, Mr. Giesler, Mr. G. S heward,
Mr. Rawlingson, Mr. Sealy, and Mr. Peyton,
The CHAIRMAN replied to the various observa-
tions, and explained that the directors were doing
every thing in their power to secure the property of
the company, and to work the traffic as efficiently
and as economically as possible. They had local
boards at various important places on their lines,
they had resident agents, and, in fact, they were
doing all they could to improve the property. They
were greatly indebted to Mr. Wrigley for assisting
the negotiations between them and the Lancashire
and Yorkshire; but with regard to his system of
managing their great company, he (the chairman)
was sure that it would not answer. He then ex-
plained the necessity of expending capital to accom-
modate and develope the traffic on various parts of
their line, and to make the outlay as remunerative
as possible.
Resolutions were passed adopting the report, de-
claring a dividend at the rate of £2 7s. 6d. per cent.,
authorising the outlay of £66,000 on station works,
and £lOO,OOO on rolling stock, carrying £10,122 for
permanent way materials to capital account, re-
electing the retiring directors and auditors.
The meeting was then made special, and the di-
rectors were authorised to subscribei3o,ooo towards
the Oswestry and Whitchurch railway, and to gua-
rantee interest on £200,000 to be raised by the
Chester and Holyhead Company.
The proceedings concluded with a vote of thanks
to the chairman.