The Sun.
London, England, 1865-03-07 00:00:00

sideration as to the proper mode of dealifig with the sub-
ject. The whole measures to be taken in consequence
nave been finally decided on. Secondly, the late Clerk of
the Patents, who is the person principally concerned in the
matter of these reports, complains—with or without rea-
son I don't know—that a considerable part of the matter
comprehended in the final report, involving a large amount
of pecuniary charge, he has not the opportunity which he
desires to have of answering and giving explanations,
which he says he is now prepared and is desirous of doing.
It would therefore, I think, be felt by the house that it
would be premature to lay the reports on the table until
they at all events couldbe accompanied by such further ex-
planations and answers as the gentleman concerned may
think himself able to offer. With regard to the result, I have
no objection to state to the noble lord that, if the conclu-
sion arrived at by these gentlemen are correct, there re-
mains a considerable sum to be accounted for to the public

by the officer to whom I have alluded. In July he paid
into the Treasury, acknowledging it to be due to it as from

him, the large sum of .£7,872 odd. The report then was not
finally concluded, and he made it unnecessary to prosecute
the steps which had been taken with a view to his displace-
ment by voluntarily relinquishing that office, without pre-
judice to his pecuniary responsibilities. If the grounds
stated by the commissioners are tenable, and all the facts
proved, there remains a further balance claimable of £3,100
odd. The noble lord asks what steps we propose to take.
The first thing we propose to do is to wait for, and give a
full consideration to, the further statements and explana-
tions which that gentleman may desire to make. Subject
to that, it has been a matter of serious consideration on the
part of the Government, whether, assuming the facts as
stated to be true, they might lead to proceedings not of a
civil character. Taking all these circumstances into account,
and including amongst other things the fact that a good
deal of the information obtained was given by the gentle-
man himself in answer to questions.put to him by the com-
missioners, and taking also into consideration other cir-
cumstances, it was decided that the case was not one in
which it would be expedient to institute any species of cri-
minal prosecution ; and with regard to the other measures
pointed out in the alternative of the noble lord, I am en-
titled to state that it is the intention of the Government to
take civil proceedings to recover the whole balance of sums
due by the officer to whom I have referred.
MEMORIAL- OF THE OFFICERS OF THE MILI-
TARY S TORE DEPARTMENT. •

In reply to Mr. GREGORY,
The Marquis of HARTINGTON said that no memo-
rial sent by the officers of the Military Store Department as
a body had been received ; indeed, it would be contrary to
discipline to allow such a memorial. Individual statements
had been received, and were still under consideration. It
would be undesirable to lay such correspondence on the
table, but if the hon. member wished for furtherinformation
he would give it in committee on the army estimates.
MR. EDMUNDS'S RETIRING PENSION.
Mr. H. SEYMOUR asked whether Mr. Edmunds would
receive any retiring pension until his Patent Office accounts
were cleared up, and whether it would not be desirable to
appoint a committee of that house to inquire into the whole
matter.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL had no information
whatever on the matter, but he should think it would not
be proper for Mr. Edmunds to receive any pension until he
had discharged his liabilities. It was a question for the
house itself to determine whether there should be a com-
mittee appointed. But, as civil proceedings were pending,
he did not think it expedient that a committee of the house
should take the matter into consideration.
THE APPOINTMENT OF MR. BETHELL TO THE
OFFICE OF READING CLERK.
Sir J. ELPHINSTONE asked whether it was true that
the Lord Chancellor had appointed his son to the office of
Reading Clerk in the House of Lords ? (Hear.)
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL had seen by the news-
papers that the Lord Chancellor, in the exercise of the pa-
tronage which he believed had always belonged to his office,
on the vacancy taking place in the House of Lords, had ap-
pointed a gentleman who he believed stood in that relation
to his lordship.
Sir J. ELPHINST ONE then asked the Chancellor of the
Exchequer whether the Lord Chancellor, having originated
those proceedings against Mr. Edmunds, had not, when he
was turned out of office, appointed his son ; and whether
that was not a question of more gravity than that which had
been brought against Lord Chelmsford at the beginning of
the present Parliament?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was not
aware that he could add anything to what had fallen from
his learned friend the Attorney-General. He understood,
like that learned gentleman, that the gentleman referred to
had been appointed.
In reply to Mr. WHITESIDE,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he had
not any knowledge of the appointment of officers of the
other House of Parliament, and that the Treasury had no
authority with regard to the grant of their pensions.
On the motion for going into committee of supply,
Lord PALMERSTON appealed to hon. members who
had notices on the motion to defer their motions, so as to
allow the Secretary of the Navy to make his statement on
he introduction of the navy estimates.
ACCIDENTS ON RAILWAYS.

Mr. BENTINCK proposed his motion Oil this subject. .
Mr. JACKSON seconded the motion.
Mr. GIBSON stated that he did not think it would be
advisable for Government to take the entire management
of railway affairs.
After some further discussion the motion was with•
drawn.

WAGES .IN DOCKYARDS.
Mr. FERRAND called attention to the great. inequality
of wages paid in the royal and private dockyard; and con-
tended at some length that the employes in the former re-
ceived on an average 2s. per day less than the men in pri-
vate establishments. This, he argued, was grossly unfair,
and was not compensated for by the superannuation allow-

awes, as not more than three per cent. of the royal arti-
ficers ever lived to get any allowance at all, and even these
did not survi7e more than from three to five years. All

that the men asked was an increase of 6d. per day.
Sir J. ELPHINSTONE supported the motion.
Mr. CHILDERS, in opposing the motion, said that Mr.
Ferrand had been misinformed as to his statistics, and that
the increased wages which he asked in behalf of 16,000'
dockyard men would entail a charge upon the country equi-
valent to £150,000 per annum. The position of the men in
the royal dockards had been much improved of late, and
the per-centage of men entitled to superannuation allow-
ances was much greater than that stated by Mr. Ferrand.
Tho subject then dropped, and the house went into
committee of supply.
NAVY ESTIMATES.

Lord C. PAGET—In rising to move the consideration of
the navy estimates for the year 1865-6, I find, Sir, that in
addition to the many interesting topics upon which this
house and the public are naturally and properly desirous of
receiving every information, and which information I am

"----4 ...---.._._..----------
-
so far icrom indicating a loss of naval
tsitTenesgttirah
z-Latrlcompared N vith the past year, really
shows a considerable iner ease. The substitution, for
example, of such a vessel as the Warrior for one of
ler number of men neees-
the old line-of-battle ships would render the em-
ployment of a much smat
sary, whilst it would, cod essedly give to the navy a
' other hand, is explicP:Dle
much more formidable ye ' ;eel.The increase in the
vote for the wages, on the
to some extent by the necek 'a'y additions ma ~:lie to
the number of officers, bu 't chiefly to the, much
larger sums now expended under the head of t 4 good
conduct pay," and which it is estimate yam, in the
ensuing year be more than aon'hle tl,
le amount paid
six years ago. The most invorte
.nt reforms In
of late by the Admiralty, howev,
nection with the recruiting of seamen ; and last
A evening Lord Clarence Page was in a position for
the first time to lay before the house the re,stilts°f
the recently adopted systr of training
_an
view to filling up the - eacanc er, are those in coll-
ies occasioned in t.'";
as;
navy by deaths and oth ar causes. During the P
year 3,100 set %men eitl aer died or were dischargeeu
ol
and of the vacancies thus created 2,517 were fill
up by boys spec iallY trained for the naval servicee
This is unquesti oncjjk-
y a vast improvement on the
ancient system or manning our fleets, and its e...t
cellence was so well
the proposal of tl
of boys to be ke- appreciated a year since tha,
ie Government to reduce the stigicl7)
A in training from 9,000 to 7,v,-,, -
met with consic' ierable opposition. The Admiraly
have, however, shown that a stock amply sutficiell"
when taken to gether with the numbers of able sea
ces
men who are willing to quit the merchant serve
I,:as been main ?tined to supply thewants of the nalli
and we maTasfiume that henceforth a training Belli
Ifor the navy may be regarded as a permanent ins"'
tutio.n. Our -armour-plated fleet is no longer in elni
bryo ; it has a tangible existence. At the dose °
the present year, the Secretary of the Admiralti la-
fork-ns us, -vi .e shall have no less than thirty arinotirt;
plated ships either at sea or ready to be put may
coma fission. The transformation of our nail 7j.
therefore be regarded as having been already effeewnf
Four more vessels will be completed in the cours.e, is
the folio* wing year, and, independently of these, _l' o
the inter ttion of the Admiralty to construct tllv
ships a the Alabama class, which shall be sPe',,,4
reo2arkavle for their speed, and which, in the event
of war, 39 ould be employed in protecting or °lc,
commerce ,and harassing that of our foes. It,isi—pss
intended td construct a turret-ship on Capt. u°'—,i,..
principle, arm, in the event of the experiment Pr°l3l,l
ing successful, o them of a similar kind may preha
erd,
afterwards be bL'ilt• It is observable, Wild-
that in the construCtion of our iron-clads the tend-
that
ency is to increase considerably the strength cif Ivan
defensive covering which, when the 'Warrior or
launched, was supposed to have reached its Inalog,
point. The side 3 of this vessel are 23 inehesittia,
of which six inches are composed of armour-rua w in
the rest bein of teak. In one of the vessels 11? tlig
course of construe lion it is proposed that al't, bo
water line the thick ness of the ship's sides shiwiiter
43 inches, of which 11 shall be iron (the ,Oood.,
plating being six inches thick) and 32 /nen° „" nova
It would be presumptuous to assert that eve.',os.,
we have reached a point which we shall never irloost
but when a ship's side attains a thickness of 5.t.„ of
four feet, we can scarcely conceive the possibil,l‘ to
its being still further increased. The new flee' cod
be divided into five different squadrons, coPoe,
of vessels varying actor ding to their strength,cota-
and draught of water, the first squadron bein, g aevf
posed of seven of the mos:, powerful of tDeis 41
iron-clads. How long armour-plated vesse.bie to
maintain their present supremacy- it is imPossisforol
say, but we believe we may with confldennce,ossess,
that at the close of the present year we shaLL,rfonoci
the most powerful fleet of these vessels to °world-
in any part either of the Old or of the New