The Sun.
London, England, 1865-02-21 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT

HOUSE OF LORDS—LAsT EVENING.
The LORD CmiNcErzon took his seat on the woolsack at
the usual hour.

NEW COURTS OF LAW.
The Earl of LONGFORD called the attention of
the house to a return made relative to the num-
ber of persons which would be displaced by the
building of the new courts of law. The return
showed that 151 houses would be pulled down, and that I
these houses contained 302 persons. On making inquiry
relative to his return, he found that no mention was made
of the lodgers. It appeared that although the householders
were few the lodgers were many ; and what he desired
was, that a further return should be made showing the
actual number of persons who would be displaced.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said he would make in-
quiry
relative to the matter mentioned by the noble lord.
The Earl of SHAFTESBURY said the return was not
at all in accordance- with the standing orders, which
laid it down, that before a bill of the nature then
under discussion was read a second time a return
of the positive and actual number of persons displaced
should be stated at length, and also that it should show
what accommodation had been made ;for the poor people.
The return before them was altogether a perfect mockery.
He hoped that the noble lord on the woolsack would insist
on a better and fuller return being made.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said he had been much
struck with the numbers mentioned in the return, but he
would see that a new return was made.
THE DEFENCE OF CANADA.
Lord LYVEDEN asked what had been done, or what
her Majesty's Government intended to do, with respect to
the report of Col. Jervois on the defences of Canada. The
conclusion he drew from the report was that Canada was in
an entirely defenceless condition. He did not know what
would have happened had General Dix's order been carried
out. He approved certainly of the principles of neutrality
being strictly followed out, but he feared there had grown
a dislike to England in America, because it appear+d there
to be the feeling that he that was not for us was against us.
The noble earl (Derby) had already referred to the im-
portant results that were likely to arise from the suspension,
by annexation, of the provisions of the treaty of 1817. The
notice that America intended that suspension had been
given in November, so that in May next it was just possible
that America mi,ghb have a fleet of gunboats on thoselake's
Lake Ontario was the most important to England, and he
should like to know what provisions the Government had
made to have a fleet of gunboats there, and what steps
they had taken to defend their own against any hostile
fleet that might be placed there by America. He:thought
it was high time that the most vigorous measures should
taken to protect the Canadas from attack.
Earl DE GREY and RIPON—My lords, I quite agree
with the noble lord who has just sat down that the question
is one of great importance. I also agree with him that the
question is surrounded with great difficulty. My noble
friend says that her Majesty's Government was guilty of an
official indiscretion in having laid this report upon the
table of both Houses of Parliament. Now, I will state the
grounds upon which we took that step, observing, in the
first instance, that if we are guilty of official indiscretion in
the production of this report, I think my noble friend is
open to the charge of indiscretion, inasmuch as in his
speech he has spoken in terms of the Government of the
United States and of the motives likely to actuate them in
certain circumstances, which perhaps it would have been
as well if he had not employed. (Hear, hear.) And mare-
over, as of certain grounds upon which he imagines that
the peace negotiations recently going on were based, which
as far as I know had no foundation except in the tele-:
graphic reports received from day to day by the American
newspapers, and which are not very frequently confirmed.
I shall not therefore notice the speech of my noble friend
except so far as it is associated with the facts of the case.
The report of Col. Jervoise contains a statement—no doubt
a serious statement—of the real facts of the case; but I must
tell your lordships that after all there is nothing in this re-
port not perfectly well known to those who had previously
considered the question from the public documents laid
before other assemblies and speeches made in other coun-
tries. But, my lords, as we proposed to ask the Parliament
of this country and the Legislative Assembly of Canada to
bear their respective shares of the expenditure necessary for
the defences of the provinces, we felt it was necessary, to
lay before Parliament the ground on which we made the
proposition, and that was the object which we had in pro-
ducing this report. Therefore, I must say Ido not think
that her Majesty's Government was at all guilty of that
portion of the indictment preferred against us by my noble
friend. That brings me to reply to the question he has put.
The report consists of two parts; first, relative to the de-
fences of the fortress of Quebec, and second to the improve-
ment of the fortress of Montreal and the defence of the
western portion of the country from that point. This re-
port has received the serious consideration of the Govern-
ment, and we have informed our representative in Canada
(Lord Monck) that we intended to apply to Parliament
this year for a sum of money for the improvement of the
fortifications of Quebec, and that we looked to the Canadian
Government to take steps for the fortifications of Montreal,
and for the erection of other works that might be necessary
to the westward of that important place.
The Earl of DERBY—What about Halifax ?
Earl DE GREY and RIPON—I will speak of Halifax
presently. lam now confining myself to Quebec and
Montreal. The proposal was that we should undertake the
expenses of the defences of Quebec, which was always con-
sidered an Imperial fortress. In former days that fortress
was strong and adequate to the times ; but it had grown
inadequate to the circumstances of the present day, and re-
quired attention and improvement. That work we take
upon ourselves. The Canadian Government are made
aware of the obligations that rest upon them, and I have
reason to suppose that they will place themselves in a posi-
tion to meet the emergency of the case. With respect to
the point advocated by the noble earl opposite (the Earl of
Derby), there has been a vote for the defence of Halifax
for many years upon our army estimates, and there will be
a large sum in the estimates for the present year. It is
quite true that the arrangements made in Canada with re-
spect to the militia were by no means satisfactory, but my
noble friend must recollect that since the period to which
he refers a new Government has been formed in Canada,
which entertains much wider views than its predecessors,
and, according to the information which I have received, is
determined to turn their attention to this question, and to
take means to place the militia in a state of efficiency.
With respect to the ballot, I am enabled to state that not
the mustering of the troops, but the first process of the
ballot has already taken place.
Lord LYVEDEN—How many men have been balloted
for ?

Earl DE GREY and RIPON—I cannot exactly say al
this moment. There is no doubt but the Government of
Canada are determined to do their duty as regards the ques-
tion of the militia, and her Majesty's Government will afford
all the encouragement with respect to the formation of the
training schools for militia officers that may be required.
The details of the formation of that force, and of the volun-
teers, will rest entirely in the hands of the Canadians. I
think it possible that this system may be carried out, asking
the men to submit to the sacrifice of leaving their own homes
and going to long distances. My noble friend (Earl Gran-
ville) tells me that the has just ascertained that for 80,000
men the ballot has been taken, and that the training of the
officers was going on satisfactorily. The Canadian Govern-
ment proposed to extend the system of schools for the
militia, and her Majesty's Government will afford
every facility for doing so. We are entitled
to ask Parliament to incur certain expenses
for the defence of Canada ; but at the same time we do not
think that this country should be called upon to undertake
the whole of the cost. The North American colonies have
made a considerable stride in a short time. They are show-
ing a spirit of loyalty and statesmanship which is most
creditable to them and gratifying to this country. we be..
lieve that the Government of Canada will respond to the
call made upon them, and that measures will be taken in a
short time to place the North American colonies in an ade-
quate position of defence.
The Earl of DERBY—My lords, I feel the state of ow
relations with the Federal States of America to be so criti-
calt
that for my own part I should have been desirouso
maintain an absolute silence, and to leave to her Majesty's
Government the responsibility of the difficult and delicate
position in which we are placed, lest any interference on our
Part might lead possibly to increased embarrassmn
accordingly on the occasion of the moving of the Address to
the Crown, I contented myself with pointing out simply
what I believe to be the threatening state of affairs—not
expressing any opinion whatever as to the course pursued,
out •
eaving to her Majesty's
of the position Government the responsibility
hear., and the precautions to be adopted. (Hear,
ques-
tion raised by
now Jtak'enta
step
lords, her Majesty's Government have
the noble
I think entirely justifies the ques-
neoble lord opposite. Because when her
this and the other got have
officially
Majesty's Government
the defenceless state of
ff Parliament a report showing
laid on the table of
provinces, and thereby calling Dueof our most important
the attention of this king-
dom and of foreign
countries to that defenceless state,
her Majesty's Government
themselves
appear to invite
formally
a discussion upon that subject, and to ask the opinion of
Parliament, I do not mean to
say
members as
the expression of the opinion of
(,
Tudivid°al taken,
but
to the responsibility of that position. Rear hear.)
I cannot but think that it was the intention
jesty's Government that we should enter upon
oithie her
largeM
Ma_
critical question, involving, as it does, theneewxpe
cen diture
of large sums of money, and inaugurating a
policy altogether. I also think that the subject wasumu rse of
more worthy of being noticed in the Speech from cil
the
Throne than any of those comparatively unimportant
questions which formed the staple of that document.
(Hear.) I will not pretend to say that the communication
of that most unsatisfactory report is likely to afford to your
lordships information which you were not already in pos-
session of. At the same time I think it is humiliating to
this country to set forth officially the utterly unprepared
and defenceless state in which one of our most important
possessions is kept, at a moment when the question of
peace and war depends, not upon the calm consideration of
friendly Governments, but upon the excited passions of