The Sun.
London, England, 1865-02-08 00:00:00

rfiE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 8, 1865.

productive of good results as even the existing state of
public schools, with all their faults, much less the state of
those schools if reforms were introduced by the voluntary
action of the authorities. (Hear.) I need not say that I
have no intention of offering any opposition to the Address,
which, like the Speech, offending no prejudice, calling for
no declaration of opinion, and being perfectly innocuous in
itself, will command, if not the hearty, at least the unani-

mous assent of your lordships. (Cheers.)
Earl GRANVILLE--I am happy to find that the speech
of my noble friend answers so well to his description of the
Address—that it is extremely innocuous, and renders my

task in following him comparatively an easy one. My
noble friend is not one to let an opportunity pass ; and we
may safely assume, therefore, that if he attacked nothing,
there was nothing he could attack with justice, and that
though so cunning of fence, he could discover no weak
joint in our harness. Thenoble earl has displayed through-
out a good-humour and a kindness which I cannot but ap-
preciate ; and I am sure that your lordships will rejoice
that he is here among us in recovered health, and appa-
rently so strong and well. (Cheers.) It occurred to me that
that recovery might be one reason for my noble friend's
good humour, and that a second might be the great literary
success he has lately achieved, as to which I am sure there
is not one of your lordships who does not feel pride and
satisfaction at the additional lustre which has been given
to this house by one who is certainly among its brightest
ornaments. (Cheers.) It turns out, however, that these
were not the reasons why my noble friend was so good-
humoured, congratulating the house that this was a round
speech adapted to a round hole, but that his satisfaction
arose from the fact that he hopes to be quiet for a few
months, tranquilly expecting that the next Parliament will
see him wafted into office and enjoying the sweets which
come with office. The noble earl, in short, is ready just
now to forgive us all our faults, because, to quote the very
terse words of his own translation, he looks
" To fill his coffers with the spoils of war."

(Hear, hear, and laughter.) The noble earl's speech
really requires very little answer. He touched lightly upon
the termination of a war which while it continued was
very painfully felt in this country ; and with regard to
certain little wars of our own, I am glad that he finds no
fault with the eminently successful expedition in Japan,
which will, I hope, insure for us very considerable ad-
vantages in that country. The noble earl also abstained
from any criticism with regard to the war in New Zealand.
Now, I am sure that her Majesty's Government feel as deeply
as any persons their responsibility as to that whr. We be-
lieve that the war has now arrived very nearly at a con-
clusion, and the only object of the Government has been
to bring it to such an end as to show the natives the su-
perior power of this country, and to ensure a peace which
will give safety to the colonists, while affording to the na-(
guarantees for all their just rights. By an omission
in the Speech the locality of the war in Bhootan has cer-
tainly not been very accurately defined—but it is impossible
to deny that it is a just and necessary war.
The Earl of DERBY—I did not know what it was all
about. (Laughter.)
Earl GRANVILLE—There are certain districts called
the Dooars, which belong partly to the natives and partly
to her Majesty's Government. For many years it has been
the constant practice of the mountain tribes to pour down
from their fastnesses and carry off into slavery men and
women the subjects of her Majesty. Mission after mission
has been sent with a view to put an end to this state of things
but in vain, and Mr. Eden not only entirely failed in obtain-
ing reparation, but suffered injury in health, and hardly es-
caped with life. An expedition was therefore sent ; two forts
were evacuated, and one was taken with hardly any loss be-
yond that inflicted by an accidental explosion in our own
lines. We now hold these forts and intend so to hold them,
taking precautions, at the same time, against similar aggres-
sion. Among the other subjects on which the noble earl
dilated was that of the severance of diplomatic relations with
Brazil—and I am sure he will be glad to learn that negotia-
tions are going on for the amicable settlement of that ques-
tion. With regard to our relations with the United States,
I think it is desirable that, now or at some future time, your
lordships should hear some statement from my noble friend
(Earl Russell). Meanwhile, it should be remembered that
if in the instances alluded to by the noble earl the people
of the United States have shown some irritation, there is no
doubt they have had some cause for irritation arising out of
the Confederate raids across the frontier. Ample time, how-
ever, remains for friendly negotiation between the two Go-
vernments. As to the operation of the Public Works Act,
my noble friend must remember that it is almost impossible
but that a certain portion of the funds expended under that
act should go to others than the cotton operatives. With
regard to the state of Ireland, I am sure that your lordships
must have listened with satisfaction to the most interesting
account given by the noble earl (Charlemont) of the grow-
ing prosperity of that part of the United Kingdom. No
doubt there is still distress in certain counties, but the sta-

tistics given prove conclusively that on the whole the
trade and manufactures of Ireland have greatly increased,
and show great promise for the future in the only way
which will permanently benefit that country. (Hear, hear.)
I must say I do not agree with the noble earl in his estimate
of the value of the Public Schools Report. In so long a re-
porbit is not likely that every sentiment should stand the
test of minute investigation and sifting. I believe that re-
port has been of great advantage, and when my noble friend
behind me (Lord Clarendon) introduces a bill, which I hope
he will do shortly, to carry out its recommendations, the
noble earl will find that we do not intend to deal with the
subject in that rapid decisive way that he supposes, without
giving time for consideration to the parties most interested
and most competent to deal with it. My lords, I think it is
a very gratifying thing for the country to see both parties,
at the opening of what the noble earl justly calls a moribund
Parliament, agreeing as to the really satisfactory state of
affairs ; and when we consider all the advantages we enjoy
—that we have a peace which is not likely to be broken—
the satisfactory condition of our commerce and of our
revenue, and the loyalty which is felt in every part of the
country, we must feel that we have every reason to be
grateful. (Hear.) And what ought to make us still more
proud of the good Government which must undoubt-
edly have prevailed among us is to find that our
North American Colonies, in expressing their wish to con-
tinue their connexion with this country, and in adopting
the new institutions they have been considering with such
calm and prudent statesmanship, have thought it desirable
to keep as close as possible to the constitution and institu-
tions under which we so happily live. (Cheers.)
The Earl of LEITRIM was understood to deny that Ire-
land was in so prosperous and flourishing a condition as had
been represented, but hoped she would improve under Lord
Wodehouse's administration, on whose appointment he con-
gratulated the Government.
Earl RUSSELL—It must be very satisfactory to her
Majesty's Government to find that the noble earl opposite,
who on former occasions had criticised foreign affairs with
remarkable asperity, should upon this occasion have so little
fault to find. At the same time there were two subjects
upon which the noble earl wished for information which I
am partly able to give. The noble earl spoke of Brazil, and
seemed to think that the commencement of the internip-
tion of diplomatic relations between that country and this
was a matter of blame to her Majesty's Government. Now
the cause of that interruption was that an English mer-
chant ship having been wrecked upon the Brazilian coast,
that ship was pilaged and the bodies of her crew were
found, but no account was given as to how those persons
came by their deaths. Does the noble earl mean that her
Majesty's Government were to feel no interest in the lives
and property of her Majesty's subjects, and were not to ask
for inquiry into the matter ? This was all that her Ma-
jesty's Government had done. We asked for inquiry.
That inquiry was not granted. We then asked for that to
which by international law we were entitled—we asked
for an indemnity for this pillage and probable murders.
[Lord CaumsFoßD—Possible murders.] I beg pardon, pro-
bable murders. I do not think, after the report of Ad-
miral Warren, anyone can doubt that some or a majority
of the crew were murdered by the lawless people who in-
habit the coast. We asked for an indemnity, and that not
being given, her Majesty's Government then ordered re-
prisals, which reprisals were carried into effect, and then
a certain sum was paid by the Brazilian Government on
account of that for which we claimed indemnity. The Bra-
zillian Government did not ask for anything on account of
that payment, which was in itself a confession that they
had been wrong in refusing inquiry. For my own part I
shall never feelregret at having shown anxiety to ascertain
the fate of some of her Majesty's subjects. But the Bra-
zilian Government said although they made no complaint
on the score of the reprisals, yet they did think that the
manner in which those reprisals were carried into effect
showed a disposition to offer an affront and an indignity to
Brazil. We entirely deny any such intention, but the
Emperor withdrew his representative. After that the King of
Portugal offered his mediation. We willingly accepted that
mediation, and the King of Portugal's Ministers prepared
terms which her Majesty's Government duly considered, but
did not think they were terms to which they could possibly
e four
sincerely
dareyly accede without giving up rights belonging to her Majesty
and all other maritime powers. Afterwards, when our
counter
orter propositions were sent they were not accepted, and
a.aagnilours to officialreceived
dstore
diplomaticinformation
relations
they had been rejected. Majesty's Government, arhow-
ever, Her
with Brazil, not pacific relati • ons, for we have always been
on peaceful terms with that country , and we have ado
other propositions which we hope the Rmade
of Portugal will
convey to the Brazilian Government, and which
we trust
may load to the renewal of diplomatic relations. If we had
intended any affront to the Emperor of Brazil by the
manner in which reprisals were executed, we should have
been to blame ; but no affront was ever intended, and we
only executed those reprisals in the manner in which othr
Powers carried them into effect, and as even the Emperor of
Brazil himself has done, who, having a complaint against the
Republic of Uruguay, has made reprisals, and has actually
occupied a large portion of the territory of that Republic.
The Emperor of Brazil has thought himself justified by
the grievances of his subjects to make reprisals upon the
Republic ofUruguay, and we can never admit that a power
which by the law of nations the Emperor of Brazil pos-
sesses is not a power which her Majesty, as one of the great
maritime Powers of Europe, does not also possess. The
other subject to which the noble earl has referred is one of
very great difficulty, and to which I should not refer had it
not been that I think the noble earl has hardly done justice
to the two parties to the dispute, and has not sufficiently
•

allowed for the irritation which prevails in the United
States on the subject of the war now raging. What I think
is the injustice of the Government and Congress of the
United States towards ourselves is this, that they seem to
expect not only that we should do everything which the law
of nations demand; and which the municipal law of this
country enables us to do, but they seem to expect that we
should be altogether able to prevent any aid being given to
their enemies—the Confederate State; who are opposed to
them. Now, her Majesty's Government have used every
means in their power from time to time to prevent war
being carried on from this country as a basis against the
United States of America, which are in peaceful relations
with us. At the same time, it has been impossible eo pre-
vent acts which have caused, and naturally so, I think, great
irritation in America. We have had ships fitted out here
and afterwards sent to a distance, where they have first of
all received armaments and a commission, and have then
preyed upon the commerce of the United States. We have
had in our hands correspondence which shows that the
Confederate agents were continually employed either in
building ships in this country or in buying merchant ships
which might afterwards be sent to France and other
stations for the 'purpose of being fitted out as cruisers
against the commerce of the United States. Now, the
authorities of the United States have, I think, naturally
enough, felt greatly irritated at seeing a number of ship;
which have come in some way or another from English ports
or English rivers, afterwards fitted out as men-of-war for
the purpose of acting against their commerce. But they
ought certainly, at the same time, to ask this question—
Whether her Majesty's Goverment have done everything
which the law of nations authorises, and which the muni-
cipal law of this country permits, to prevent this country
from ;being made the basis of warlike operation; so as it
were to involve the people of this country in war against
the United States. I am not, however, at all surprised that
they should feel annoyed and indignant when they find that
those who are the friends of the United States should have
their territories chosen as the basis of those operations. So
again with regard to Canada. The noble earl seems to
imagine that the United States are influenced by no motive
save that of mere hostility against this country, as he
termed it in denouncing that useful convention with regard to
the lakes. The fact is, however, that the Confederate Govern-
ment apparently determines, if possible, to involve this
country in the conflict, finding that their own resources were
unequal to the task of waging a successful war. They sent
their agents into these lakes, which are not in their terri-
tory, but which belong either to the United States or to the
United Kingdom of Great Britain, to seize the ships which
were navigating those lake; and which belonged to the
United States. I say again, I am not surprised that the
United State; considering the Canadian lakes as the pos-
session of a Sovereign friendly to themselves, should feel
indignant at finding those lakes chosen as the basis of
operations against their vessels. The United States now
say that if they remain in those lakes without cruisers, the
Confederates will seize their ships. It will be a very pain-
ful thing, and a matter of some danger to the two countries,
if the United States and Great Britain are obliged to put
an end to or suspend the convention which has been so
useful, and which has contributed so much to the main-
tenance of peace between the two countries. It may be na-
tural upon the part of the Confederate States, but for myself
I think that in their attempt to make the Canadian soil the
basis of operation; some of them bearing the character of a
belligerent, but others resembling the acts of robbery and
murder which take place in social life—that in that attempt
they do what is most unjustifiable, and I trust her Ma-
jesty's Government will be able, as they have:done hitherto,
to preserve a neutrality in that part of her Majesty's domi-
nions. At the same time, accompanying that irritation to
which I have alluded, there has been a tendency with re-
spect to two questions to make the most unfounded impu-
tations against the Government of this country. There
have been complaints that we have acknowledged the belli-
gerent character of the Confederate States. But, my lords,
looking at the character of the contest, looking at the im-
mense territory possessed by tbe Confederate; looking at
the great war operations which they have carried on, what
could her Majesty's Government do but allow that the
character of belligerents belonged to the Confederate
States ? (Hear, hear.) I know-no instance of so mighty
a war being carried on without a belligerent character be-
ing allowed by neutral States. (Hear, hear.) Another
question may arise, for now and then we hear a threat
that the day is coming when the United States will make a
demand upon her Majesty's Government. That question,
as your lordships heard last year and the year before is,
that a demand should be made by the United
.States of
America on account of the capture and destruction of mer-
chant vessels by the Alabama andother ships, which, being
originally built in England, were afterwards taken to dis-
tant port; there to receive their armaments, and thus to be
enabled to cruise against the property of the United States.
Looking at the precedents in international law, looking at
the declarations made by the United States themselves in
the case of Spain and Portugal when ships destined to prey
upon the commerce of those two countries were more
directly fitted out in their own ports, such a claim upon
the Government of this country would be extremely unfair.
Therefore, while I say we are bound to make every allow-
ance for the irritation that may arise in the United States
in the course of a war which has come upon them
unexpectedly, which has caused to both sides great
losses, and which we believe to be unnecessary, still,

while we aro most strict and scrupulous in perform•

ing duties of neutrality, we cannot allow that any of these
claims are justly preferred. I cannot avoid saying, how-
ever, before I sit down, that when I see a desire to put an
end to involuntary servitude in the constitution of the
United States, I do rejoice, because a great blot is about to
be removed from the character of civilised nations, and
because the horrible and abominable crime of slavery is to
be blotted out for ever.

The Address was then agreed to, and tho house rose al
25 minutes after 7.

HOUSE OF COMMONS-LAST EVENING.

The SPEAKER took the chair at a quarter to four o'clock,
NEW MEMBERS.

The SPEAK= having read the usual warrant for the
re-election of members to supply the vacancies that had
occurred during the recess, the following new members
took the oaths and their seats :—Lord Courtenay, for Exe-
ter, vice Mr. Edward, deceased; Mr. Morris, for Carnarvon,
vice Mr. David Morris, deceased ; the Hon. G. Waldo-
grave Leslie, for Hastings, in the room of Lord Vane,
now Duke of Cleveland ; Lord A. C. Hervey, for
West Suffolk, vice Earl Jermyn, now Marquis of Bristol ;
and Mr. Davenport, for Bromley, vice Mr. R. Spooner.
NEW WRITS.

On the motion of Mr. BRAND the following new writs
were ordered to issue :—For the borough of Tralee, vacant
by the elevation of the Right lion. Thomas O'Hagan to the
bench in Ireland ; for the City of Cork, vacant by the
resignation of Dr. F. Lyons; for Truro,. by the elevation
of Mr. M. Smith to the bench as one of the judges of the
Court of Common Pleas; for Salford, vacant by the ap-
pointment of the Right Hon. Mr. Massey to the office of
Finance Minister of India.

sence of so many Irish representatives who were so much

better qualified to speak on that subject than he was.
(A laugh.) The hon. baronet having expressed a

hope that the money and skill expended in the

... _
construction of destructive implements of war would
be directed into sources that would promote civi-
lization, adverted briefly to the other topics of the Royal
Speech, excusing himself for not dealing with them ex-
tensively by the recency of his election as a member of the
house.

The Hon. C. H. TRACEY, who wore the uniform of a
deputy-lieutenant for the county, seconded the motion. He
alluded to the sympathy which the country felt in the grief
which her Majesty still experienced at her bereavement,

and said he trusted the grief for her loss would be gra-
dually effaced from her mind. (Hear, hear.) The hon.
member went into detail, but briefly, through the different
points in the Royal Speech, and asserted that it indicated
a satisfactory condition of the prospects of the country as
regarded its domestic and colonial condition. He dwelt
particularly on the events occurring in America and India,
and concluded by expressing his entire concurrence in the
remarks of the hon. baronet who had moved the Address.
Mr. V. SCULLY said that he would not have risen if any
other Irish member had done so, but it appeared that lat-
terly the Irish members had given up talking, and their
place had been supplied by English members, who had
adopted the practice of addressing their constituents dur-
ing the recess, while Irish members held their tongues.
(Laughter.) He remembered when it was consi-
dered unconstitutional for Cabinet Ministers to speak
on politics out of the house, but now they were amongst
the principal speakers at public meetings after Parliament.
He objected to the paragraph in the Royal Speech which
spoke of Ireland as participating in the general prosperity
of the country, which he asserted was a most incorrect
statement. With the exception of the North of Ireland, the
manufacturers in that portion of the United Kingdom
were in a very depressed state, and from personal know-
ledge he could assert that the agricultural condition was
still worse. He alluded to the continuous emigration
from Ireland, which he contended was a proof of his
assertion, and had heard disaffection expressed in Ame-
rica as to the want of proper remuneration at home.
The paragraph relative to Ireland was calculated to con-
vey a most erroneous impression of the state of the coun-
try, and he proposed to substitute a paragraph to the effect
that it was with regret it was perceived that the condition
of Ireland was not prosperous as regarded manu-
factures or agriculture, as evinced by the emi-
gration that was going on in that coun-
try. He referred to statements recently made by the
hon. member for Bradford (Mr. Forster), in reference to
Ireland, and contended that that country was still grossly
misgoverned, political attorneys being sent over to
act as pro-consuls, and who were merely diplomatists, and
not statesmen. He drew attention to the utter indifference
felt popularly in Ireland with regard to the proceedings
of Parliament, as far as their country was concerned, which
he attributed to the want of knowledge of and disregard for
Irish interests displayed in the house. In alluding to an
alledged coalition between the Ultramontane Catholic
members and the Conservative party, which reduced the
majority of Government from 56 to 18, he vindicated the
course that was pursued by Irish members in
that course, and he especially vindicated the course taken
by the Irish members in regard to the Danish question.
At the same time he utterly repudiated the calumnies that
were circulated with respect to the motives that influenced
the votes of Irish members who would not vote against

their conviction, notwithstanding that they were
constantly run down in the house. He hoped
the promises:of good measures would:not be jeopardised by
any captious feeling in the opinions he expressed. He
hoped they would have the assistance of the Chief Secre-
tary for Ireland in promoting beneficial measures for Ire-

land in the present session.
Dr. BRADY pronounced the paragraph in the Queen's
Speech on Ireland the most incomprehensible that had ever
come under his eye. At the same time, it was satirical
enough to be worthy the columns of Punch. The hon.
member, at considerable length, enforced the necessity of
a tenant right bill for Ireland, and concluded by joining in
the hope that the paragraph in the Address with respect to
that country would be expunged.
Mr. H. SEYMOUR thought that in the Speech from the
throne on'the opening of the last session of the present Par-
liament, some announcements might have been made in re-

demption of the pledges given by the Government when
they came into office. (Hear, hear.) They all went to the
hustings at the last general election pledged to reform ; and
very shortly they must meet their constituents again, and say
how they had fulfilled those pledges. His belief was that,
pledged as both sides of the house were to reform, a great
opportunity had been lost for carrying a moderate measure.
After the remarkable speech of the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer last year, he could not understand his coming be-
fore the house that year without a Reform Bill being pre-

pared. If that eloquent speech had been delivered four

years ago the measure of reform then brought forward
would have met with a very different fate. If, however,
they were to have no Reform Bill, domestic reforms ought
to be carried out with vigour; but there were no signs of
that in the meagre programme sketched out in tho Royal
Speech. For example, he thought the time had arrived
when the department of education ought to be separated
from the Privy Council, and that the conduct of all the
great educational institutions of the country should be placed

under the Minister at the head of the new department.
Adverting to Ireland, the hon. member said that the

present condition of that country was a disgrace to a
civilised Government. Ireland had been decreasing in
wealth and population, and increasing in discontent. The
only remedy of which her Majesty's Government had
told them for the past four years that they could suggest
was, that the whole of the Catholic population should
leave the island. He thought that the time had now
arrived for carrying out the policy of Pitt, by abolishing
the Lord-Lieutenancy, and completing the union between
England and Ireland. Another question to which a para-
graph had been vouchsafed in the Speech was that of India.
They were told that India was in a state of perfect tran-
quillity. There had lately been appointed to the post of
Finance Minister a gentleman (Mr. Massey) who would have
to spend two or three years there before he knew his busi-
ness, and thus spend precious time, which India could ill
afford. He heard there was to be a large deficit in the re-
venues of India this year. If that were so, what would

there be when there was a reconciliation between North and
South, and this country was flooded with American cotton,
and Indian cotton went down one half or one quarter ? The

time was coming when the house would see there was a
reason for the opposition he had always shown to the Mi-
nister for India, who had failed to improve the great oppor-
tunity which the American war had offered with regard to
India. Indian cotton had not in the least improved in qua-

lity, nor in the way in which it was sent to market, since
the American war broke out. The reason of that was the po-
verty of the ryots. A superior class of agriculturists was
wanted before cotton could be improved. There was an
abundance' of capital in India, but it was not employed in
agriculture, because the right hon. baronet (Sir C. Wood)
refused to alter the tenure of the soil. As no agricultural
improvements took place, the price of cotton would go down
the moment peace in America took place, and if there was a
deficit now what would there be then ? If those ills came, he
hoped the present Minister would be where he was, so as to
suggest a remedy. As a Liberal member, he thought there
ought to be a Ministry to carry out important social reforms.
As it was, one portion of the Ministry was opposed to all
electoral reforms, while the Radicals in the Ministry were
content with the honour of being sleeping partners: As a
party, the Liberals deserved the name of "the great do-no-
thing party." He wished that stigma to be removed, so that
when they went to the hustings they might bo able to
point, as a reason for their election, to the work they had
really done, instead of the unmeaning cry of " Palmerston
for ever ! No politics and no principles." (Opposition

cheers.)
Mr. R. LONG heartily joined with the seconder of the
Address in hoping that her Majesty might soon bo seen
again amongst her subjects on public occasions. He did.
not share the surprise of the hon. member who had just
sat down that the Government had not completed the pro-
gramme they put forth in their opening proceedings. The
history of the Whig party showed that there was a melan-
choly consistency in the conduct of that party in making
solemn pledges only to be broken. The agricultural mem-
bers had a right to complain that there was no notice in
the Speech of a difficulty against which agriculturists had
gallantly struggled, viz., the malt tax—a subject which
now specially attracted their notice. Distinct pledges had
been given by the late Sir Robert Peel and Sir James
Graham that the malt tax should be repealed, but those
pledges had gone with the rest of the Whig promises. The
best measure which could be passed for the agricultural
interest would be ono which would give to tenant farmers
a fair share in regulating the local expenditure of counties.
Ho was not surprised that exception was taken to the way
in which Ireland was mentioned in the Speech. Ho had
read the words with surprise and pain. He had lately been
to Ireland to see why she was so painfully in the rear, and
he had come away horrified at the state of the people, who
were vilified and disgraced—so far as it was due to Eng-
lish legislation—by hon. gentlemen opposite. Any measure
for the relief of Ireland, come from where it might, should
have his hearty support.
Mr. SCOURFIELD expressed a hope that the efficiency
of the public service was not going to be imperilled by a
false notion of economy, because he came from a part of the
country (Milford) in which considerable uneasiness had
been
felt by the sudden withdrawal of the military force.
Mr. MAGUIRE did not agree with the statement in
the Speech which included Irpland in the general state of
prosperity of England and Scotland. He wished he
could represent that trade and manufactures had pro-
gressed and was progressing in the southern provinces of
Ireland. He was one of those who took every possible op-
portunity of inspiring his countrymen with self-reliance.
(Hear.) He was aware that nothing that the most generous
Government could do would be of any avail for the salva-
tion of the country, unless Irishmen would also depend upon
themselves. But there was a certain share of responsibility
attaching also to the Government, from which, if they had
an honest desire to benefit the country, they could not
shrink. Her Majesty's Government was too much inclined
to go into partnership with Providence, taking credit for
a fortunate harvest. But if great misery occurred, he
. Nand that the Cieveuxuent were rather inclined $9

ignore its existence. The cause of the misery of Ireland was

not traced to the Emblem Act—it was not traced to religious
differences—it was not traced to the non-residence of the

Royal family—but to the want of large and liberal laws,

which would stimulate the energy of the people, and would

give them such hope in the future prosperity of their coun-
try, that the attractions of America, would gradually fade in
the national estimation. (Hear.) There was something

wrong, which the Government ought to endeavour to re-
move ; and if the present Government did not take up the
question, then the new Parliament would have it within its
power to stop the tide of emigration which was now not
merely taking away the strength of Ireland, but the bone
and sinew of the empire. He agreed with the hon. member
for Cork (Mr. Scully) that the people of Ireland were not
only deeply discontented, but were deeply disaffected; and
if that were the last night he was to be on the floor of the

House of Commons, he would raise his voice, not in brag-
gadocio, but in sincerity, and say that to appease this dis-
content and this dissatisfaction nothing but just consi-
deration and just laws could be effectual. The Lord-
Lieutenant was right in saying that the feeling which the
Irish people carried over to America would influence the
policy of American statesmen. There was a larger popu-
lation of Irish and Irish-born in the States of America
than there was in Ireland. (Hear.) They were active and
intelligent ; they had command of tho press and platform,
and who could saw how far a people so energetic might not
be affected against this country ?.(Hear.) He would to God
that statesmen, instead of troubling themselves with what
was doing in distant lands, would address themselves to the
sore that was eating into the heart and core of their own
empire. It had been said that a visit by her Majesty to
Ireland would have the effect of settling the country ; but
that would only be a patch of court-plaster over a deep
ulcer ; and although they would be glad to see her Majesty,
yet a suffering people could not hope for relief from the
sunshine of royalty, the mere glimmer of costly pageantry.
He spoke in no spirit of hostility, but to draw attention to
the state of things really existing; and it was not by ignor-
ing them in the Queen's Speech, or glossing them over
with smooth phrases, that the desired improvement would
be effected.

Mr. LONG explained that he had suggested that the
best remedy for absenteeism would be that a member of the
Royal family should be Lord Lieutenant.
Sir R. PEEL said that the hon. member for Poole (Mr.
D. Seymour), by proclaiming the Government of Ireland to
be the worst of any nation on the earth, had merely indi-
cated that he had not had the opportunity of knowing what
the Government of that people really was. The picture
drawn by the member for Chippenham (Mr. Lough), who
had been in Wicklow and some other parts of Ireland, was
a gross exaggeration. He had represented the sufferings
of the Irish to be of such an appalling nature, that the hon.
member for Dungarvan (Mr. Maguire), had refused to give
his adhesion to those sentiments.

Mr. MAGUIRE—I simply said, if an Irish member in-
dulged in language of the same description, he would be
accused of exaggeration.
Sir R. PEEL would put it to the house in the language
of the hon. member for Chippenham, as to whether the Irish
were " a debased and mutilated people ?" (Laughter.) It
was said that for 30 years the Liberal party had had the
management of Ireland; but he wouldremind the house that
hon. members on the other side had had opportunities for
suggesting remedies, and yet all that was said was that the
best thing to do was to pass a penal law against absenteeism.
Then it was said that the presence of his Royal High-
ness the Prince of Wales would be of service; but if the
state of the country was what had been represented, would
not the position of his Royal Highness be likened to that
of transportation or penal servitude ? He should be proud,
when a debate took place, to vindicate the course taken by
the Government, and should be happy to point to the im-
proved condition of the country. The hon. member for
Cork (Mr. Scully) called it provocation that the Govern-
ment should thank God in allusion to the sunshine of hope
which was now visible in that country. The hon. gentle-
man said it would be better to omit all allusion to Ireland
or its impro.6d prosperity. But what a difficult position
the Government was placed in. He recollected that when,
in 1860, no allusion was made to Ireland in the Queen's
Speech, several gentlemen got up and said that Ireland
ought to be mentioned ; and now, when they had alluded to
the improved condition of that country, they were told it
was provocation, and was a reference that ought not to be
made. He was bound to say, however, that with the :good
harvest and the improvement in trade and manufactures,
they were justified in making that reference to the condi-
tion of the country, and he maintained that the observation
was perfectly correct. The statement made by the hon. gen-
tleman the member for Dungarvan, as to the numbers of
people who had left Ireland during the past year, would be
found not exactly to be the case. No doubt emigration con-
tinued in large proportion. The hon. gentleman said
120,000 had left the Irish shores, expressing their intention
not to return, in the course of last year. Now, the statistics
showed there had been some diminution of emigration in
1864 compared with 1863. The numbers, as near as he
could recollect in 1862, were about 70,000 persons who left
the country; in 1863 there were 117,000 persons; and in
the course of last year about 114,000 persons had left the
country. Therefore there was a diminution in the number
of persons emigrating from Ireland. And it would be
very wrong if the honourable member were to suppose

that the population of Ireland was diminishing to ex
actly the same extent as the numbers leaving the coun-
try would indicate. Since the census of 1861 up

to the present date more than 350,000 persons
had undoubtedly left the soil of Ireland, announcing

their intention not to return ; but the population of that
country, according, to the latest statistical returns, had
diminished only about 128,000, owing to the increase of
births over deaths. He would remark also that the infor-
mation the Government received did not bear out the state-
ments of the hon. member for Dungarvan as to the extent
of the distress. The only place in Ireland where distress
had existed during the last few months was admitted to be
in the county of Galway, where there had been much pres-
sure and suffering. The inhabitants of that district had
contributed funds, and between three and four hundred per-
sons were now employed on works of public improvement,
and although the union there would contain 1,000 persons,
there were only 500 in it, and in one week recently there
were only five instances of outdoor relief. Therefore the
distress was not such as had been represented, and he hoped
that in a short time it would be relieved. The returns of
last year showed great improvement in agricultural pro-
duce. The Government had urged occupiers to sow their
land with flax, and the result had been that, during the
past year nearly 100,000 more acres had been in cultivation
than at any previous period, and there were now nearly
300,000 acres of land under cultivation for the flax crop in
Ireland. The flax was worth about 7s. 6d. per stone, and
if they took the returns of their crops from the best autho-
rity they would find that the intrinsic value of the flax was
over £4,000,000. This, therefore, must have formed a con-
siderable addition to the industry of the country ; and, with
the exception of the suffering in Galway, he was justified
in saying that the condition of Ireland was one of great
promise. He was now convinced there was a spirit of
enterprise there now. He was convinced there was an
improved feeling on the part of the people of Ireland that
would justify the best hopes for the future, and he trusted
that in the course of the i year he should be able to state
that the country might, after three years of suffering, re-
cover in one year the position that had been damaged in
the three preceding.
Lord FERMOY dissented from some of the propositions
which had been laid down by his hon. friend the member
for Poole ,(Mr. H. Seymour). Sincere reformer as he
was, he could not concur in the opinion that the commence-
ment of the last session of the Parliament was the fitting
moment for announcing a measure of reform. In common
with others, he deplored the circumstance that they had
allowed the early life of the Parliament to pass away with-
out their attempting to grapple with the question of reform;
but at the same time, if it were never introduced the House
of Commons would be accused of insincerity, and of moot-
ing the question simply for hustings purposes. The noble
lord then proceeded to criticise the paragraph in the Speech
which referred to Ireland, and said that the statement it
embodied went too far. It was true the last harvest in Ire-
land was an improvement on the three preceding ones, but
then they were the worst that probably any country in
the world had ever been visited with. In point of fact, the
last harvest was not an average one. He did not believe
that the paragraph regarding Ireland had been supplied by
the able and intelligent nobleman who was now at the head
of the administration of that country. The noble lord then
referred to the great distress which existed in the town of
Galway, and said the Government ought to undertake some
public works for its relief.
Sir F. CROSSLEY said that the gentleman who had
spoken complained that the manufactures of Ireland were
confined to the north, and that the country would never be
prosperous until manufactures were disseminated. That
was impossible. Manufactures succeeded betterin one focus.
That was the case in England. An hon. member complained
that manufactures were of slow growth. That was true ;
but ho was glad to find that Ireland had taken a good posi-
tion in the manufaqture of linen. If they were to wait for
the prosperity of Ireland until manufactures were dissemi-
nated, prosperity would never be seen at all. He had listened
to the speech of the hon. member for Dungarvan, who had
asked for justice being done to Ireland, but he had not shown
in what way injustice was done to Ireland. If that was stated,
then there could be an attempt made to remedy it. He dis-
sented from the views of the noble lord member for Maryle-
bone, who said that as this was the last session of Parliament,
it would be better to wait for a general election before
dealing with the subject of reform. When the question of
reform came on last, immediately after a general election,
they knew how backward hon. members were to vote for
a reform bill which would send them back to their con-
stituents. As there was no absorbing question of foreign
policy to consider, he thought it would be better to take up
the question of reform calmly and coolly, and decide it in a
proper spirit. Working men, who are now entirely ex-
cluded, wanted a fair share in the representation of the
country. Until they were admitted they would not, nor
ought they to, be satisfied.
Mr. KINGLAKE called attention to the fact that during
the recess her Majesty's Government had recognised the
Archduke Maximilian as Emperor of Mexico, although in
June last the noble lord (Palmerston) said that while war
was going on a state of things existed which would not
Awtify lack Idajegtffi VQT9=9I4 iu rucopi§iDg thy Arch-

duke as Emperor of Mexico. He of course was entitled to
suppose that her Majesty's Government had information
which justified their taking such a step, though recent se:
counts showed that war was going on, and that the 31°11
cans had lately met with considerable success. Undertberd
circumstances ho hoped her Majesty's Government e°
able
be prepared, at an early date, to lay the papers on the ta
showing the ground on which, after so decided an assurlal"
by the noble lord, they had felt themselves justified ill re-
cognising the Archduke as Emperor of Mexico.
Colonel sYx.gs dissented from the statement in the
Speech that there was general tranquillity in our Dlclian
to
dominions on account of the expedition Bh°°t3ll,l.
Bhootan was one of the wildest regions on the earth, '
the outrages complained of consisted in an insult matte ullr.
invited deputation, sent there to endeavour to env
rangements with the Government. It was universa
believed that we kept 70,000 Europeans in India to lool•
after our native army. These Europeans ought, thereforeoft
to be available for every service. But they could not
send Europeans to Bhootan. Four brigades hsar.o,,
without a European among them except in the art i'%l
Referring to the loss of 60,000 people by the eYeic'netho
October, and to the magnificent subscriptions Y,
native gentry to assist the surviving sufferers, the .°0
member adduced the fact as a proof that the natives cell
be trusted. Not a word had been said in the Acleiresil
about unhappy China, where universal anarchy,
111
and suffering had been brought about by our POI,' for
Japan, too, we had thought proper to insist on redre''' out
the breaches of a treaty which had been made Nirith one °ti
of 700 nobles of that empire. We had never had a -
$
with the Emperor of Japan. It was absurd to o
treaty with the Tycoon, and make the whole of Japan
responsible. What did the Government propose to dos;
reference to the recent murders in Japan ? We sloutt rye
to resent those murders, and, if resistance wasrl3%-'
should be obliged to send an expedition ? So I°ll'' OP/
Mikado refused to sign a treaty made only with one et
ug
nobles, and encouraged the rest of the nobles to reeis to
we must not blink the fact that we should have tog e
the same extremities that had characterised our P°lil

China.
Sir C. WOOD, who was almost inaudible in the gall'
wasunderstoodto explain that the disturbances ill I,,,s°°t 20
had arisen from continual raids being made for tbe ered•
years on to our territory, and our subjects being 11:111%-n oh'
To remedy that we had sent a mission to endeavour y
tain an engagement to cease such hostilities. Our °i' the
had been treated with the grossest possible insult, o— had
Bhootanese refused either to restore the captives tile!, 0.4
made, or to cease their raids. That being the case? ';,ects
imperatively necessary for the protection of our seisiiti•
that an expedition should be unpertaken. He did 'ill of
cipate doing anything more than establishing .-
posts to check the raiding which had hitherto gone on
The Address was then agreed to, and the hollSe
journed at twenty minutes before nine o'clock.