The Sun.
London, England, 1862-05-14 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PANLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF COMMONS—THIS DAY.
The SFEAKER, k the chair shortly after twelve o'clock
PRIVATE BUSINESS.
The L-rds' amendments to the Berwick-upon-Tweed
Hatb,ur Bill was considered and agreed to.
The Bolton and Blackburn Road Bill, and the Shrews-
bury and Hereford Railway Bill were considered and
ordered to be read a third time.

PETITIONS.
Petitions were presented by Mr. Sotheron Estcourt, from
Norwich, against he Church Rate Bill ; by Mt. Hadfield,

from Sheffield, against certain clauses in the Savings

Banks Bill ; by Air. Hope, from the Synod of Lothian and

Tweedale against the Scotch Education Bill; and by several
members, in favour of the Church Rates Abolition Bill,
CHURCH RATES ABOLITION BILL.
Sir J. TRELAWNY moved the second reading of this
bill. In one respect he might feel discouraged in respect of
this measure from th,, repeated defeats he had sustained,

but, as on last occasion, the defeat was in a great measure
the act and deed of the supporters of the bill, in consequence
of their having been led away with the idea of a compromise
on the subject, that discouragement was greatly lessened.
There was scarcely an hon. member in that house who did not
consider that some measure was necessary on the subject, and
he believed that the opposition he would meet with on the
present occasion would in effect be that the mode he pro-
posed to regulate the matter was not the proper one. The
ebjeet, ef hon. members on the Opposition side of the house
seemed to be to get rid of his bill by holding out hopes of
the settlement of the question by compromise ; but when
this mode of settlement had been attempted, it had been
already seen what insurmountable difficulties rose up in
their path. He considered that Dissenters were right in
objecting to the form of compromise which had been pro •
posed, as he must say that toleration was not so prevalent
in the present day as some people would have them
believe. The other night he heard an hon. gentleman getup
and ask the Foreign Minister what action he intended to take
as regarded the imprisoned Protestants in Spain. Of course
he could say nothing on the subject at the time, but he I
must say he felt indignant, and if he were Spanish Minis-
ter he should write a very authoritative letter to the Foreign
Minister on the subject, and tell him to see that toleration
was exercised in his own country before he found fault with
the mode of the exercise of it in others. (Cheers and
laughter.) It was said that without church rates there
would be no security for the restoration of churches ; but
he considered that church rates were the dry rot of the
Church, and were church rates abolished to-morrow he
had no doubt but that a perfectly efficient system for the
restoration of churches would be devised by the heritors of
the p ,rich. By the system of church rates the church-
wardens were the parties responsible for the restoration and
repairs of the church, and they needed not to go far to see
the disgraceful manner in which they performed their
duties in that respect, converting some of the finest speci-
mens of their old archii ecture into unseemly and uncomfort-
able structures. The fact was, he considered church rates as
altogether unsuited to the present age and time. What
would be said by philosophers 200 years hence in respect of
this system of church rates ? What would be said by the
the Wesleys, Darwains, Macaulays, or greater still,
by the Buckles, respecting this system ? Why,
would they not characterise it as a political mon-
strosity, some former specimen of a fox with wings,
which might have been presumed to exist in a former
age. He would not detain the house, as the subject
had been discussed so often, and all the arguments for an
against the abolition of the impost were well known. He
must, however, say that let the supporters of these rates
declaim as 'they might, hon. members on the Opposition
side of the house could not upset• the Government, and they
could not hold the Government unless they consented to
the abolition of church rates. He therefore moved that
the bill be read a second time.
Mr. C. BUXTON seconded the motion, and stated that
he did so in order that some compromise might he arrived
at on the subject. He considered that the tendency of the
public mind was at present directed towards & compromise,
and though it might be some time before that was come to,
still he had no doubt that a scheme would ultimately be
devised which would satisfy all parties. As a means to
that compromise, he considered that the penalty at present
imposed for the refusal of church rates should be abolished,
That would do away with all practical grievance in the
case, and would reduce all objections to church rates to a
theoretical character.
Mr. S. ESTCOURT said ho had understood that the
hon. member who had just sat down rose for the purpose of
seconding the resolution, but his speech would lead one to
believe that such was not the case. (Hear, hear.) That,
however, was but one instance—and he had no doubt they
would hear many others in the course of the debate—of the
impossibility of the measure proposed by the hon. baronet.
The hon. baronet knew his opinions on the question
very well, as they were expressed by him when the bill
was before the house last session. These opinions
were exactly the same this year, but he could not help say-
ing that while 23 bills had been introduced on this-subject
since it was first broached in the house, neither the house
nor the Government had proceeded with these in the same
creditable manner they had done in respect of other matters
which had come before them. No doubt several of these
schemes were mere crotchets, but still none of them did get
that consideration which the house w.re in the habit of giv.
ing to other subjedts. In most of the schemes which had
been prepared by the other side of the house a distine.
tion was drawn between Churchmen and Dissenters,
and rights were given to one party which was with-
held from the other. All the schemes were mere
expedients, which seemed to got rid of the main diffi-
culty, but none of them stood upon a well-defined
oonstitutional principle. He considered, therefore,
that to deal properly with this question they must deal
with it on a constitutional principle. He would, therefore,
move as an amendment—" That it is unjust and inexpe-
dient to abolish the ancient customary right, exercised from
time immemorial by the ratepayers of every parish in
England, to raise by rate amongst themselves the sums re-
quired for the repair of their church, until some other pro-
vision shall have been made by Parliament for the dis-
charge of those obligations, to which, by custom or statute,
:he churchwardens, on the part of the parish, are liable."
Lord R, MONTAGUE seconded the amendment.
(LEFT SITTING.)

PARLIAMENTARY DI VISION.