The Sun.
London, England, 1865-06-10 00:00:00

Mr. ROEBUCK—Stand with his back to them ?

The MAYOR—YeS, he is making faces at the people.

Mr. ROEBUCK resumed--Now I come to the last
grand count in the indictment, and that is my opi-
nions about America. (" Yes, that's it.") The last
time I expressed my opinion in this town about Ame-
rica was in this very square. (" It was," and hear,
hear.) And the people of Sheffield upheld my
opinions. (Hear, hear, and no, no.) I say they did.
They out-voted you—(t•urning to the malcontents,
who retorted by again crying "No, no")—they out-
voted you. (" No.") Can you have the face to
look me in the face and deny it (The Mayor asked
for order.) There was a meeting like this, the
opinions of that meeting were taken, and the gentle-
man who opposed me said, " You have fairly won
the fight." (Hear, hear, cheers, and "So he did.")
But what then ? 'Was I wrong ? (" Yes," " No,
and Mr. Clegg, " Certainly.") I say lam as op-
posed to slavery as you—(hear, hear)—but there
are many ways of getting rid of slavery. One is to

-S

DON, SATORL)AY EVENING, JUNE 10, 1865.

get rid of the slave. That is being done at the pre-
sent moment. They are dying by hundreds of thou-
sands. (" Where?" and ".No.") 1-then said, and I
say now, that the best way of emancipating the
slaves was to do it gradually and carefully; to fit
them for freedom, and by that means not to incur
the horrible guilt of killing many millions of your
fellow men. (Laughter.) That is all I need say about
America. (" How about recognising the South.") I
am quite sure that if the South had been recognised
great good would have been done. (Cheers.) In
the first place, the arrogant, the overbearing, and
great republic of America would have been split in
two—(cheers and a hiss)—and for the safety of
Europe that is required. (No.) You have not
played out the play yet, my good fellow. (Laugh-
ter.) By and by you will see what will be the re-
sult, and I say that my policy was a wise policy. It
was not accepted by the great council of the nation,
and what did Ido ? When I found that the House
of Commons was resolved not to acknowledge the
South, I held my tongue about the matter. (Cheers,
and a cry of " Good.") I have never mixed in a
debate about America since. I felt that in that great
assembly every word peals throughout the world,
and that every word I utter, insignificant as I may be,
sounds as a trumpet to all mankind. I did not speak ;
I accepted the decision of the House of Commons ;
I thought—l think it wrong, and I hope my coun-
try may not find that I was right. (Cheers.)
There is one thing I want to mention. I have
been told great exception has been taken to me be-
cause it has been asserted that I said I spat upon
the petitions of the people. I never said anything
of the kind. I said "I spit upon your bill." Some
crotchety man brought in abill—not the Permissive
Bill—on Sunday closing, and I said to him—and
the house cheered me—" This is not legislatiOn ; it
is paltry meddling in a matter with which we have
no concern. (Cheers.) I spit upon the bill."
(Renewed cheers.) And so I do. (Continued
cheering.) And if I should be in Parliament, bring
n that bill again, and I will use every faculty I pos-
sess, every power I possess, to turn that bill out.
(Cheers.) Now, gentlemen, it is rather hard work
at this time of day, and on such a day as this, to
speak to such a meeting. I have gone rapidly
through my past life, and through (pausing and
indicating the opposition party amid great laughter)
I was going to say the shallow and fruitless things
they have brought against me. (Cheers, and a re-
mark from his :opponents, to which the hon. mem-
ber responded :—You will find them shallow, and
that lam too deep for you. (Renewed laughter.)
Turning to the meeting, Mr. Roebuck concluded :
I leave my fate in your hands—that is to say, my
political fate. I am not afraid of the result. (Hear,
hear.) I believe that I have done my duty honestly.
(Hear.) I know I have done it fearlessly. (Cheers.)
I don't fear you. (Cheers.) I don't fear anybody.
(Renewed cheering and laughter.) What I think
right I say ; what I think right I do ; and that is
the only promise I make you. For the present mo-
ment lam silent. If there be any gentleman who
wishes to question me let him do it ; I am ready to
answer. (Hear.) There is no anonymous newspaper
now. We will know the man ; we will know his
objections, and you will hear my answer. That is
fair. (Hear, hear, and " That's English.") Listen
quietly to him, listen quietly to me. In a time you
will have to decide the matter. I have no fear of
the result. Now, gentlemen (turning sharply to the
opposition party) what have you got to say ?
(Loud laughter, and long protracted cheering.)

Mr. M. BEAL came forward to question Mr. Roe-
buck, and intimated that at a later period he should
submit a resolution which it would be for the meet-
ing calmly to consider. He had no personal feeling
against Mr. Roebuck ; on the contrary, he had a
very great respect for him, and only regretted that
-he should have deserted the cause of the people as
he had done. His first question had reference to the
last election. Sir John Ramsden and Sir F. Cross-
ley were candidates for the
*representation of the
West Riding, and opposed to them was Mr. Stuart
Wortley. Mr. Roebuck spoke very bitterly against
Mr. Wortley because he was a supporter of the
Derby Government, which was then in power. Mr.
Roebuck was elected for Sheffield, and the very first
thing he did after getting back to Parliament was
to vote in favour of Lord Derby's Government.
He wished to know-upon what grounds Mr. Roe-
buck voted for Lord Derby's Government after de-
nouncing it on the hustings.
Mr. ROEBUCK-4 will tell you why. The sup-
porters of Lord Derby then sat on the Govern-
ment side of the House of Commons, and the
Liberal party were in opposition. I turned round
to the Opposition and said, " You (the Liberal
party) cannot carry a Reform Bill ; they (the sup-
porters of Lord Derby) can. They offer us some-
thing ; it will be wise to take it." The ifouse of
Commons did not take it, and what happened ? The
Opposition got into power, and they have not car-
ried a Reform Bill yet. (" No, nor you won't.")
I don't think I shall. I say they have not carried
a Reform Bill ; but they have come round to Lord
Derby's Bill. (Never.) They have. Did you
hear what Mr. Lowe said the other day ? Did you
hear what Mr. Osborne said ? Did you hear what ,
gir George Grey said ? They all say they wish the
constituency to be extended, but not lowered. What-
does that mean? It means that they do not intend to
lower the franchise, but that they are ready to take
the fancy franchises Mr. Disraeli offered. On that
ground I voted for keeping Lord Derby in power,
because he would have given us a Reform Bill which
would have admitted lodgers and a number of
other persons to the use of the franchise, which can
never be done by the present administration. (Cheers.)
Mr. BEAL—Mr. Roebuck's explanation proves to me that
he belongs to the Conservative ranks, and is not a suppor-
ter of Lord Palmerston. I now wish to ask whether the
Galway contract was not agreed upon the night before that
vote was given. (Cries of " Shame, shame !")
Mr. ROEBUCK—The Galway contract was a contract for
the purpose of making a communication between Ireland
and America. I did not see any harm in that. I never
gained one penny by it. (Cheers.) I want to know why
I should not support the Galway contract. Does anybody
tell me it was unwise? I thought it was a wise one. I
acted for some time with the Galway Company. I loft it,
and I never had a shilling from it.

Mr. BEAL—I leave to the meeting to judge how far the
explanation is satisfactory. I now wish to ask Mr. Roebuck
why he described the working classes of the North of Eng-
land, and more especially the working classes of his consti-
tuency, as drunkards, wife boaters, and dog fanciers ?
Mr. RoEnucx—All these things aro brought in as props
to support Mr. Bears ideas about the Water Bill. (Laugh-
ter.) Now hear my answer. (Interruption.) I was de-
scribing what I believed would be the advantages of educa-
tion. .1
was lecturing in a cathedral town; I had the bishop
before me, and I dared to say things in his presence which
I take it he never heard before from a layman. I said so
great is the value I attach to education that I believe it
will create different men altogether. There are among
my constituents drunken working men, men who beat their
wives and caress their dogs. I did not say that was the
character of the working man—(Mr. Beal —" You did.") I
say I did not. How do you know; you were not there?
(" The Morning Post.") I said then, and I say now, that if
we could elevate the working classes above these vices we
should be doing a great good to our fellow countrymen.
That is the reason I gave that description. It is a descrip-
tion that does apply to certain men among the working
classes, but not to the whole class. Nor did I say it applied
to the whole class, for I have always been their friend and
acted for them. They never found me wanting; when Mr.
Beal has been asleep I have worked for them. (Cheers.)
Mr. BEAL—The explanation Mr. Roebuck has given is
not in accordance with the reports in the newspapers.
(Hooting, and cries of "Shame.") The next question is
why, when the Water Company presented their bill to him
to be introduced into Parliament, ho did not consult his
constituents upon the subject ? •
Mr. ROEBUCK—Aye, that is it. I did consult them. I
came down here, and in the Council-hall I did consult them.
I found the two parties so diametrically opposed—the Town
Council and the Water Company—that I could do nothing
between them ; that I should only be like the man who in-
terfered between husband and wife—got kicks from both,
(Cheers and laughter.)
Mr. BEAI,—I will read Mr. Roebuck's words at the Coun-
cil-hall. (Cries of "What paper aro you reading from ?")
From the Sheffield Independent. (Voices, " Hear, hear,"
" That will do ; we won't have it from Vother.") When
Mr. Roebuck met the Town Council he said, "The kind-
ness of the town of Sheffield has given me a great deal of
power as your representative. That power may be used
mischievously or beneficially. Very much will depend upon
the advice and information I receive now while I am in
Sheffield, in regard to the effect I may produce upon the
legislation that will take place. I may state that I have not
a farthing of interest in the matter." Mr. Roebuck after-
wards said, "I wish to hear whether I, as your representa-
tive, ought to aid in carrying this bill through Parliament
or not. My name is at the back of the bill. I want your
advice upon these matters. First, whether the Council
believes there ought to be power to borrow £400,000.