The Sun.
London, England, 1865-03-01 00:00:00

FISHERIES IN SCOTLAND.

public grants were now made be once broken down and
education would be placed in the utmost peril.
Mr. ADDERLEY held that the present constitution of
the education board was by no means satisfactory, and
ought therefore to be inquired into ; but on the question
whether grants should be extended to endowed schools, his
impression was totally adverse to the views of the member
for Berkshire.
Sir L. PALS advocated the claim of small rural parishes
to a portion of the education grant, with which object he
suggested that local boards might be formed to group such
parishes into districts, and place each group under one
certificated master.
Mr. F. POWELL supported the motion for inquiry on
the ground that all departments of the Government ought
to be subjected to the frequent and rigid supervision of the
house ; that no clear information existed with regard to
the nature of the functions of the President and Vice-Pre-
sident of the Council of Education, and because of the
relations between that body and those persons who, in the
country, and at the cost of much time and money, were
carrying out the work of education in their various
localities.

Mr. BRUCE said it was not his intention on behalf of
the Government to offer any opposition to the motion and
the addendum, although there was much of the inquiry
that would be unnecessary, seeing that ample information
Was already before the house upon the subject. The real
question to be decided was whether the system of educa-
tion had worked well, or was likely to be made to work
better. He doubted, however, whether any more effec-
tive machinery could be devised than that of the Committee
of Council, whose administration of the department he de-
fended at some length. In acceding to the motion the Go-
vernment did so more in the hope of restoring confidence
and peace! than in the expectation that any official and
practical suggestions would result from inquiry.
Lord R. CECIL, adverting to the conscience clause,
said that it ought never to have been put in action by an
executive department without the formal concurrence of
the House of Commons. The existing system derived its
whole energy for the spread of education from the co-ope-
ration of religious zeal, and if that religious zeal were ac-
cepted it must be with all the conditions which it involved,
for men did not care to teach a boiled-down, colourless re-
ligion—a mere system of morality divested of all cardinal
truths. With regard to the education department, it was
a vital defect in the organisation of the Commitiee of
Council that the president, who was solely responsible,
was removed beyond the influence of that house.
After some observations from Mr. AYRTON,
Mr. G. HARDY expressed a hope that, in conducting
their inquiry, the committee would not travel into the
question of the conscience clause or grants to endowments,
but confine themselves to the constitution :of the adepart-
ment of education and the system under which the busi-
ness of the office was carried on.

Mr. H. BAILLIE asked the Home Secretary whether
he had received a communication from Mr. Caird in Novem-
ber last respecting a close time for herrings in Scotland,
and what steps had been taken in the matter ?
Sir G. GREY said that he had received such a commu-
nication, and the Lord Advocate would introduce a bill on
the subject.

Mr. HENLEY was in favour of the motion, and, in order
to show that the system required examination, referred to
the original Orders in Council, which had been dealt
in by minutes, which minutes were altered by regulations,
and these regulations wholly changed by private interpre-
tation within the walls of the Education-office. He repu-
diated the idea that the whole responsibility of the depart-
ment rested with the President of the Council. The whole
'Cabinet was equally responsible.
Mr. W. E. FORSTER thought that whatever commit-
tee the house might appoint would have a very difficult
and complicated duty to perform, and that the inquiry sug-
gested by Sir J. Pakington would be quite sufficient for any
one committee to carry out, without undertaking in addition
the consideration of the large question suggested by Mr.
Walter.

Mr. HENNESSY commented upon the circumstance
that, while the house was agreed that education should be
conducted on religious principles in England, a totally dif-
ferent system was adopted in Ireland. He hoped the com-
mittee which -was about to be appointed would be em-
powered to inquire into the condition of those schools in
Ireland which were denied assistance because the Bible
was read in them.
After a few words from Mr. SCOURFIELD the debate was
brought to a close by a reply from Sir J. PAXINGTON, and
the original motion, with • the amendment of Mr. Walter,
was agreed to.

PARLIAMENTARY BOROUGHS.

Mr. BAINES moved for returns of the number of male
persons resident within each Parliamentary borough
in England and Wales, or within seven miles
thereof, who were assessed to the last poor rate in any
parish within such borough, at the gross estimated rental
following, viz., under £4 and £5, of £5 and under £6, of
£6 and under £7, of £7 and under £B, of £8 and
under £9, of £9 and under £lO, of £lO and
over; and of the population of each Parlia-
mentary borough, according to the census of 1861;
the gross estimated rental of the property therein at
Lady Day, 1863 ; and the number of electors on the
register now in force ; together with an estimate of the
number of the electors in Parliamentary boroughs, if the
franchise were extended to male occupiers assessed at a
gross estimated rental of £9, £B, £7, and £6 (in continua-
tion of a return of male occupiers in Parliamentary cities
and boroughs, presented by command, in the session of
1860).—Ordered.
COMMIT TEE ,OP COUNCIL ON EDUCATION.
Sir J. PAKINGTON moved for a committee to inquire
on
into the constitution of the Committee of Counciluca-
tion, and the system under which the business of the
office is
conducted. The right hon. Bart. took exception to the
pre-
sent
constitution of the Council, and said that there were
no less than 1,124 parishes in England which received no
benefit from the annual grant for educational purposes. Re
contended that the council of education had not at present
acted in a manner calculated to inspire much confidence
in their future efficiency in dealing with so important a
subject as national education. The defective working of
the educational department had excited a strong feeling of
dissatisfaction and distrust ; but that had arisen not. so
much from the fault of the Minister as from the consti. tu-
tion of the Board itself. Illustrative of this view the right
hon. gentleman referred to the revised code, which he said
"was less directed to the improvement of education than to
the diminution of the annual grant. Again, the conscience
.
clause had been put in force without having been previ-
ously submitted to the house for its sanction. Moreover,
there was a large extent of country virtually excluded from
assistance by these grants. And lastly, the constitution of
the Committee of Council was not calculated to ensure the
carrying out of an effective system of education.
Mr. WALTER moved as an amendment to Sir J. Pak-
-I.ngtou's motion that the committee should also inquire into
the best mode of extending the benefits of Government in-
spection and the Parliamentary grant to schools at present
unassisted by the State •
the commencement Mr.
l'43W-E condemned the proposal of Mr. Walter as
work g
grant
tt hadoa nblembesor
enentof an attempt to utterly undo the great
recently accomplished, by extending
the
of
thoseof schools without taking security
that the teachers
entrust
tschools were persons to whom
they might safely
keystone theof elucat!on of the rising gene-
ration. The very
who thewas existing system was the
and if
an agent for the
efficiency of the teacher,
ifthat were done away
tribution of the public money,
ail
the recklessG exPenditure that
with the consequence must be
gtezernraent. With
the theoretical
would be most discreditable to
that there
regard to the motion of Sir J. Pakin
objection of the right bon. baronet seemed t
was not a single Minister responsible for tehebe
tion of the grant ; but that was not the fact. There was
responsible Minister, and that was the Lord President of
the Council. Bearing in mind that the system of nationale--
education was founded upon the principle of aidingy
public grants the voluntary efforts of the people, so logn
that was acted upon he considered the Committee of Cogunas
cil to be the most fitting department for the adminis-
tration of the grants. Every attempt that had yet been
made in this house to alter the present system meant no-
thing else than more money for schools—less guarantee for
teachers. And such was the object of the motion now
under consideration. Let the conditions upon which the

THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, MARCH 1, 1885.

of gas, make a tramway and works, and raise .£65,000. Mr.
Baldrey, C.E., was examined, and the committees adjourned.
The Bill of the Waterford and Wexford Junction Rail-
way before the examiners was declared not to have complied
with the standing orders.