The Sun.
London, England, 1862-04-05 00:00:00

,L,
E.
THE SUrii, LONDON, si ADAY EVU;NING, APRIL. 5, 1362.

shows us what armour will do, but what kind of vessel will
not do. (Hear.) In the first place, with respect to the

power of that American armour to resist shot, I should say
that the great part of the shots fired in the recent engage-

moot were hollow shots; and it is well-known that hollow
shots will not make that impression on armour which solid
shots are enabled to produce. On the other hand, though
the Monitor and Merrimac were welt enough adapted for
the smooth water in which they had to act, yet those who
happened to look at the report which was published as
coming from America, would see that the crews of those
ships were very nearly suffocated, because, being very low
in the water and confined below, they had not sufficient air,
when the action began ; and, moreover, the decks were so
near the water's edge that, in the case of Ericsson's vessel,
the sea, in roughish weather, got over and came down the
funnel, so that there was a chance of all going to the bottom.
(Hear.) Therefore, it will not do to take these vessels as
your model, and when the house is told that they cost com-
paratively but a small sum, and were completed in a short
space of time, I must say that it is not ground sufficient for
us to go on with respect to the ships we may construct.
(Hear.) My hon. friend the member for Liskeard went
through a list of improvements which have taken place in
implements of war. He told us about the crossbows, the
matchlocks, the flint locks, the percussion locks, the Brown
Bess, and the Enfield rifles. No doubt, human ingenuity
and the progress of science from time to time make great
changes in the implements of destruciion. So for .a long
time we were content with sailing ships. Not many years
' ago it was found that a sailing ship was no match for a
ship propelled by steam, and then the right hon. baronet
opposite (Sir J. Pakington) began, with great credit to
himself, what he announced as " the reconstruction of
the navy"—namely, the substitution of ships pro-
pelled by steam for sailing vessels. That was a
great improvement at the time. (Hear, hear.)
Since then other nations have covered their ships
with iron sides. We have not failed to follow their exam-
ple. The Admiralty is busily engaged in doing so. The
right hon. baronet led the way by ordering that very splen-
did ship, the Warrior. On that model the Black Prince
was also made, and these are seagoing vessels, which those
floating batteries are not. In addition to these, my noble
friend the First Lord of the Admiralty has ordered others,
and in the course of this year there will be four iron ships
afloat and tit for sea. In the course ,s the .eat, year two
other iron ships will be afloat and fit fur sea; and by the
end of this year, I believe five wooden ships will be plated
with iron and fit for sea, and the Achilles, a large ship, is
to be built next year. Besides all this, four other iron ships
aro ordered, and are in progress of construction, and ten-
ders are sent out for the construction of a shipon the cupola
system, which I believe will turn out most effeetual for
coast purposes. (Hear.) Whether it can be made capable
of going to sea is another thing, but for all purposes of coast
defence we are of opinion that the construction of that ves-
sel will turn out most effectual. (Hear.) The experiments
made on these cupolas are perfectly successful. They have
turned out proof against any shot fired against them, and I
have no doubt that a ship so constructed will prove to be of
the greatest possible value. (Hear.) These things show
that the Admiralty is not inattentive to the matter, but has
been actively engaged in the work, as far as the means af-
forded by Parliament permitted, and has already realised
some means of defence of this kind ; and other means are
preparing which will provide us in the year 1864 with 16
iron ships, of different sizes, but all of a very respectable and
formidable character. (Hear.) Then comes the question
whether, with respect to the defence of Portsmouth and
the anchorage at Spithead, forts or iron vessels are the
best. Much has been said in disparagement of the re-
port of the Defence Commission, but gentlemen seem to
forget that the recommendation of that commission was
that both forts and floating batteries should be constructed,
and that £1,000,000 should be allotted to the construction
of floating defences. We felt, in considering the question of
the expenditure of several millions of money for the purpose
of creating defences for oar chief ports and dockyards,
which I humbly think are of great importance, that we
were justified, inasmuch as the fixed defences were perma-
nent works, which would last for a groat many years to
come, in dealing with them as improvements of the freehold,
and in charging the expense on the freehold for a certain
number of years, by means of a loan, or terminable annuities
for a limited period of time. We doubted, however, whe-
ther we should be justified in applying the same principle
to floating defences, inasmuch as, however constructed, they
cannot be considered as equally durable and permanent
with fixed forts. Therefore we omitted to recommend to
Parliament to provide for the construction of the floating
defences out of a loan, and left them to be provided for out
of annual votes. It appears now that it is the opinion of
the house that no time ought to be lost in multiplying these
floating defences. (Hear, hear.) If we were to follow the
advice of the hon. member who has just sat down, and to
provide for all commercial ports ships on Captain- Coles's
principle, the expense certainly might be very consider-
able; but probably the hon. member would be content
with such a number as would be sufficient for the defence
of our dockyards and most valuable ports. Some gentle-
men have said that it is nonsense to think of fortify-
ing the coasts to prevent invasion. No one ever dreamt of
that, It is obviously impossible. It is said that if you
erect forts the enemy would not come near them.
but would land elsewhere ; and- that you cannot fortify
the coast so as to prevent a landing. Well, all you can do
is to take certain valuable points of the utmost im-
portance, such as the dockyards, and leave the rest to be
protected by the army on land, and by the navy. Ridicule
has been attached to the Martello towers. I do not
believe that they deserve any ridicule of the kind at-
tempted to be thrown on them. Taking ships as they were
when those towers were built, and the modes of warfare
then pursued, I am inclined to think that the Martello
towers constituted a respectable means of defence. They
have now gone by, like Brown Bess and other things, and
now the chief use of those towers is to test the power of
guns to destroy. One of them has proved a very useful
target, and has been employed to the relative value of pro-
jectiles of different kinds. (" Hear, hear," and laughter.)
Therefore, the real question, which the House is now con-
sidering whether it is desirable to suspend for a time,
and until a more serious decision can be arrived at upon
fuller information, the construction of the forts at Spit-
head, for the purpose of applying, in the meanwhile, to
the construction of iron ships, that amount of money,
which otherwise would bo spent on the forts. (Hear,
hear.) Well, I do not mean to deny that there is a great
deal of plausibility in that recommendation, nor do I at all
mean to say that the Government aro indisposed to adopt
that course. (Cheers.) The contracts for these forts, as
already stated by my hon. friend the member for Liskeard, '
are not contracts for completing the forts. They are contracts
for-the foundations up to the level of low or high water as it
may be. Indeed, the Government have not yet made up their
minds as to what would be the best construction of forts to
be built on these foundations. It was thought at one time
that a certain thickness of iron-10 inches—would be suffi-
cient. It was found by experiment that that would not do,
and that further power of resistance would be necessary. So
far, therefore, from the Government having entered into a
contract for the erection of these forts, they have not as 3 et
been enabled accurately to ascertain what would bo the best
description of fort to be constructed. The contract simply
relates to the foundations, and undoubtedly, if the house
t thought some delay would be advisable in regard to proceed-
ing with those foundations—there is only one quarter in
Which a largo amount of work is already laid down—that
opinion might be acted on; but you would, of course, under
those circumstances, have to make amends to the contractor
for the loss of time, for the discharge of wbrkmen with
whom he may have entered into engagements, and also for
the materials provided. (Hear, hear.) Some expense would
therefore be entailed by such a course of proceeding, but it
might be prudent to incur that expense fora time, until this
question can be more fully, deliberately, and calmly consi-
dered. (Hear, hear.) The state of the matter at present
is this :—I proposed to the house the year before last a bill
to enable the Government to raise £2,000,000 for the pur-
pose of erecting dockyard fortifications at Portsmouth and
' Dover. This was a sum, as it were, on account for the pur.
pose of beginning and carrying on to a certain extent, as far
aS could be effected in the course of that year, the different
works specified in the Estimate laid before Parliament.
Moro time was found to bo necessary than was then ima-
gined for the purpose of making accurate drawings and
arranging the purchase of land, and, though I am speaking
of what took place nearly two years ago, the £2,000,000
which I have mentioned will not be payable for work done
until about June or July next. It will, however, be payable
at that time for works sanctioned by Parliament, and under-
taken in consequence of that sanction. Well, it would be our
duty in the course of the present session to apply to Parlia-
ment for further powers to issue terminable annuities to con-
tinue those works, among which would naturally be the forts
proposed to be erected at Spithead. It would, however,
be perfectly in order—and, if the house wishes it, there
would be no difficulty on the part of the Government—
to take this course :—My right hon. friend the Secretary
for War has already instructed tho Defence Commission to
examine the question as to the utility of those forts, as com-
pared with floating defences, and as combined with those
defences, and has asked them to send in a report on the sub-
ject, That report will be in the hands of the Government,
in all probability, before the lapse of any great length of
time. No great expense would perhaps be incurred by
desiring the contractor to suspend for a couple of months—
say the works in connexion with those foundations which
he has laid. When that time has expired we should have
to submit to Parliament a bill for the further issue of those
terminable annuities, and then it would be for Parliament
to decide whether, with the information which they would
have before them, they would think fit wholly to discontinue
those forts, or to suspend for a longer period their construe-
tion,a or
and
of npdttio what extent they would think it desirable to de-
voteo n
floatingof t the
batteries
e terminable f
aannuities
the
purpose to
of u
the rapid
a r con-
struction
coast
defence. That floating defences can be constructed more
rapidly than forts there is no doubt, and there is, perhaps,
as little doubt that so long as those floating defences were
not sent elsewhere—so long as they were available, and had
they would, in all probability be
their machinery in order,
as effectual, for the purpose
of
which I
am
speaking.,
as
forts. There is, however, this consideration to be borne in
mind with regard to the relative power of forts and iron-
cased ships. A limit is set to the weight of armour and the
weight of guns in the ease of a ship which has to float. The
whole weight of a ship's armour and guns included must

not be greater than the weight of thewater which she dis-
places. If it were greater the ship w)uld go dowu. Now,

the national debt for the construction of iron-cased ships,
and he should oppose the amendment.
The house divided upon Mr. Bentinck's amendment in
its altered fcrro—

Ayes
Noes l3

Majority —6l
Tho lotion as amended was then agreed to.

SUPPLY.
The report was brought up and agreed to.
Tho other orders wore then disposed of, and the house
adjourned at 25 minutes to 2 o'clock.