The Sun.
London, England, 1853-05-24 00:00:00

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edequitable sh.._ _ out they thought the
Lad aright to ask that that fair, just, and equitable taxatio
mould first be decided by a competent tribunal. This was
not the first' time they had asked for an inquiry as to how
the accounts between the two countries really stood. When
a motion, of this kind was brought forward some yeare
ago by the hon. member for Kilkenny, the Government of
day did not condescend to answer him, and, probably,
the p • • nt Government intended to follow a similar course
on the resent occasion, and to content themselves with
str mg the question by votes. (Hear, hear.) He did
not think it necessary to enter into the merits of the ques-
tion further than by saying, that the English Government
having entered into certain engagements with Ireland at
the time of the union, the Irish representatives only asked
that those engagements should be fairly carried out. They
only asked that a competent tribunal should be appointed
to decide on the mode by which Ireland, considering her
relative capability, should be called upon to contribute to
the support of the State ; and, if that tribunal should de-
cide that increased taxation should be laid upon Ireland,
they would willingly and cheerfully submit to it. But if,
on the other hand, it should decide that no additional
taxation should be levied upon that country, they hoped
the Government would also be ready to abide by that
decision. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. MACARTNEY had always thought that if there
was a fair account taken as between the two countries
Ireland could afford to pay the income tax ; but until that
account was gone into he did not think it would be fair to
impose that tax upon her.
Mr. CONOLLY said, he should not only be inconsistent
with his own professions in that house, but untrue to those
who sent him there, if he did not take the earliest oppor-
tunity of impressing on the Government the absolute neces-
sity of greeting an inquiry before placing upon Ireland a
tax which went to vitiate one of the leading articles of the
union. and which he considered as eminently unjust. He
expressedwauiss thought he was also entitled to insist that the Government
should distinctly place before them the grounds upon which
they asked the house to extend the income tax to Ireland,
for he must say that he felt it was a personal indignity to
the Irish members to have all their reclamations against
this impost treated with silent contempt by the right hon.
gentlemen on the other side, and that they should be over-
borne
by a majority, and a majority alone. (Hear, hear.)
n
He maintained that on the principle of self-interest, if
up
and the solemn,duty of the Government, as the guardians
of the State, to grant the inquiry which was now sought.
He believed the late Sir Robert Peel was perfectly right
n the n
applied to Ireland, would not pay the expenses of its i f
col
lection. Ho could only tell the house that, by extending
the income-tax to Ireland, they would be flying in the face
of it whole nation, and treating the Irish people with a
contempt they would feel moat poignantly. The Exche-
quer of England, he was satisfied, would not receive the
slightest advantage from such an outrage. From motives
of high policy, the late Sir Robert Peel refused, in 1845,
to extend the income tax to Ireland, but the state of Ire-
land at the present time was not nearly so prosperous as it
was then. (Hear, hear.) If it could be shown that Ire-
land had unjustly evaded her fair share of the imperial
taxation, he (Mr. Conolly) would at once assent to the ex-
tension of the income tax to that country. The people of
Ireland were not to be led away by theories that 100/. in
one place was as good as 1001. in another. They suffered
enough from the burdens, local and imperial, which were
thrown upon them, and they felt that any addition to
those burdens was peculiarly unjust at the present time.
Mr. WILKINSON said he thought, whatever Ireland
might complain of, she certainly could not complain of the
want of a fair attention on the part of that house. (Hear,
hear, and a laugh.) He could only say, that since he had
been a member of that house one-half of its time had been
occupied in the discussion of Irish affairs. He supposed
the object of the proposed committee would be to inquire
what would be a fair share of taxation to be borne by Ire-
land. Now, be would put it to hon. representatives of Ireland
whether they thought they were pursuing the course by
which they were most likely to obtain their object? He
wondered they did not feel some sense of humiliation in
coming forward and suing, as it were in forum pauperis,
asking exemption from one tax and another. For his own
part, he was quite ready to give his support to the budget,
which, he believed, would tend to promote the general
advantage and prosperity of the country.
Lord C. HAMILTON observed, that he might remind
the hon. member for Lambeth that, but for the union, it
would have been unnecessary for any Irish representatives
to trouble that house on the subject of the fiscal arrange-
ments of their country. He understood that the object of
the motion was to obtain the appointment of a committee
who might inquire whether the terms upon which the
union was established, and which brought Irish members
into the house, had been strictly and fairly carried out
with respect to the burdens of taxation borne by the two
countries. He hoped the hon. member would not consider
that, in doing his duty to his constituents, he was pleading
for them in forma pauperis. He (Lord C. Hamilton)
thought it might be shown that the bargain made at the
union had not been quite fairly observed. In order to
induce the Irish Parliament to waive its separate rights,
Lord Castlereagh had distinctly declared that Ireland
should not be called upon to pay towards debts and liabi-
lities incurred by Great Britain before the union, but that
as to future expenses the two countries were to be taxed
on a strict measure of relative ability. He (Lord C.
Hamilton) thought, then, that Irish members had a
right to ask whether, in this new framework of financial
legislation, not only the letter but the spirit of that
contract had been strictly considered. (Hear, hear.)
He had long thought that Ireland must have an in-
come tax, if such a tax was to be permanent in England—
(hear, hear)—but he wished it to be ascertained what dif-
ference there was between the resources of Ireland in 1845,
and at the present time, which now rendered that country
so much more capable of bearing additional taxation with-
out injury to her interests. He would ask whether, when
Ireland had just passed through a period of great difficulty,
it would be wise for the Imperial Treasury to seize upon
the first fruits of her returning prosperity? The tendency
of such a proceeding would be, he believed, be to retard, it
not to destroy that prosperity, and to paralyse the efforts
by which, during the last few years, so much had been
accomplished. The remissions now contemplated as re-
garded Great Britain amounted to 1,470,0001., but the
..only remission for Ireland was thOof the consolidated an-
nuities, which, he contended, one not to enter into the
balance at all. He would not enter at any length into
figures ; but, allowing 250,0001. for the consolidated an-
nuities, that left a surplus in favour of Groat Britain of
1,220,000/. Was that in the spirit of the Act of Union ?
He did not wish to complain of or to deny their power to
impose additional taxation. All the supporters of this
motion wanted was inquiry, and that inquiry he hoped the
house would give.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER could not
well commence his observations upon this discussion with-
out adverting to the remarks of the hon. member for Ros-
common (Mr. F. French) on what he had been pleased to
term the inattention of the Government during the speech
of the hon. and gallant gentleman who had brought for-
ward this motion. For his own part, he (the Chancellor of
the Exchequer) entirely disclaimed that charge. (Hear.)
He was in the house, endeavouring to attend to the hon.
and gallant gentleman—(hear)—when some persons who
were now sarcastically cheering him were not in the house
at all. (A laugh.) He did his best to hear the gallant
colonel, but there was so much noise during his speech
that it was heard most imperfectly, and it appeared to
him that a large share of that disturbance came from the
neighbourhood of the gallant colonel himself. (No, no,
and a laugh.) The hon. member for Donegal (Mr. Conolly)
had stated that it was in no spirit of evasion that this mo-
tion was made—that there was no desire to escape from the
question or evade a fair share of taxation as regarded Ire-
land. Now, he accepted implicitly the assertion of the
hon. member, without assenting, however, to the proofs
upon which that assertion rested ; for he thought the asser-
tion would have stood better without those proofs than
with them. (A. laugh.) It did not appear to him (the
Chancellor of the Exchequer) that this motion had at all
the effect of demonstrating to the house or to the country
that there was no disposition to evade the question. He
was quite sure such a motion would not be made the rule
of proceeding in another place. He remembered, in 1833,
when there had been a long discussion upon the question
of negro emancipation, and when the discussion had been
ended, and a bill had been brought in and read a second
time, the hon. member for Montrose made a motion very
similar to this—namely, that in lieu of going into com-
mittee on the bill, a select committee of inquiry should be
appointed. The hon. member for Montrose was followed
on that occasion by the Earl, of Derby, then Lord Stanley,
who administered such a reproof as it was not in his (the
Chancellor of the Exchequer's) power to give to the hon.
and gallant colonel, but which, if it were in his power to
administer, he was sure would prove a great discourage-
ment to the hon. and gallant member. (Hear, and a
laugh.) He did think the present motion was an ex-
tremely unfortunate one, both in respect to the form and
the time at which it was made. In the first place, it
was interposed as an absolute bar to their progress with
this bill. (Hear.) It was an amendment to the Speaker's
leaving the chair. Now, what was this bill ? It was
something else than applying the income tax to Ireland.
(Hear, hear.) It was a bill for repairing a deficiency
of 5,000,0001. in the national revenue and for carry-
ing on the service of the year, being so far irrespective of
Ireland. The way to draw attention to the case of Ireland
would hay© been to either bring forward
a separate motion
or to move to exempt Ireland from the operation of the
tax in committee. But now they attempted to bar the
further progress of a bill which repaired a deficiency of
5,000,000/. in the public revenue, and upon which hinged
the whole financial arrangements of the year ; and all these
arrangements as regarded England and Scotland were to be
suspended until they had got the report of a select com-
mittee upon the relative taxation of England and Ireland.
(Hear.) There would have been far more propriety in such
a motion if it had been made at the first step taken in this
matter ; it ought at any rate to have come at a far earlier
period than this. Why. was the question of equalhatalalt)rn
had been
between the two countries revived now, after
it
debated for nights together, and after divisions u
the house had been
taken upon it, in which the sense of,
N Why,
(No, no .) o . on the
unequivocally expressed. ,
main motion the debates had chiefly turned upon the case
of Ireland—the question of applying the tax to Ireland
was separately discussed and decided ; and, having been
separately decided, and the competency of the house to
decide upon
it having been thus admitted, the hon. and
gallant gentleman now came down, at a very much later
stage, and asked the house for a select committee of
inquiry ! (Hear, hear.) That appeared to him (the
Chancellor of the Exchequer) a bad Parliamentary ground
upon which to stand, and one of a very inconvenient
cha-
racter as respected the order and consistency
of public pro-
ceedings. (Hear, hear.) With regard to this
he had not, in taking these objections, the slightest
committee,
sition to avoid or escape from the merits ghtest dispo-
itself. He admired the judgment of hisc' the question
(Lord C. Hamilton), who had said he noble friend
into the figures. (A laugh.) He admired:would not go fully
the hon. and gallant colonel—the the judgment of
men who gave an historical characterjudgment and skill of
who went back to the epoch
ofthe to their speeches.
over everything which s,d union, but who leapc4i
and the present time. occurred. between that period
7th article of the Act of (Hear.)
They had spoken as if the
but he did not hear one the Union were departed from,
pro-
ceedings which had
syllable of reference to the pro-
7th article. This
was taken place since the union upon that
a very inconvenient topic. It wits
rather remarkable that the proceedings relating to this
Act of Union, which had occurred in the '
have been allowed to drop entrely out of
shouldie
were told it was a very hard case that Ireland should paYy.
1,000,000/. or 5,000,0001, towards the general revenue of
the country. That was said to be a very hard case, and
Ireland, it was added, would have been much better oft in
regard to her financial condition if she had kept separate
from England. (Hear, hear; from the Opposition benches.)
She would ? Well, he was glad now to have got a per-
fectly distinct statement. There was a fair challenge to
him, and he accepted it. The hon. gentleman said, then,
that it would have been better for Ireland--that she would
have been at far less cost than she was at presont—if, in-
stead of having her finances consolidated with those of Eng-
land, she had been allowed to continue upon her own
around. (An Hon. Member—lf the debts' had not been
consolidated.) Weil, house should see how that