The Sun.
London, England, 1862-10-31 00:00:00

1,0 RD C. PAGE? AND GENERAL SIR F.
SAUTEE, AT CHATHAM.

r the counties in England Kant was the one most
'important for an enemy to take, because there
would be found the most cherries to pluck.
There they had Chatham, Sheernr:, s, Wool-
wich, and Deptford dockyards, a, d Wool-
wich Arsenal, although the latter wa totally un-
fitted for,an arsenal. The volunteers of Kent should,
therefore, render themselves as efficient as it was
possible for them to be made, Kent being so admi-
rably adapted for defence,
,there being the garrisons
of Chatham, Sheerness, and Dover to fall back upon.
Volunteers, however, must make themselves as per-
fect as possible, remembering that from their intel-
ligence they required but one-tenth of the training
of the common soldier. They must not think they
were not regarded, for his gallant friend could tell
them of the great influence the force had already
had upon Europe. (Cheers.) The British army had
won for itself golden opinions, and wherever it
might yet be employed there they might depend
upon it it would do its duty. They must not
imagine that because they heard of large armies
they were efficient. In America they found the
army numbering 700,000 men, but yet they
failed to discover any remarkable strategy or
ability. (Hear.) That army had yet to learn the
art of strategy, which could only be acquired by
time. Armies could not be got together on the spur
of the moment; their skill and organisation must be
a work of time. The Duke of Wellington, at the
termination of the war in which he was engaged,
boasted that he had 45,000 efficient troops, and with
that number he would march from one end of
Europe to the other. (Hear, hear.) He believed
the British army was now in an equally efficient
state, and that if required they could do so in de-
fiance of all opposition. (Loud cheers.)

CHATHAM, THURSDAY.
Last night Lord C. Paget, M.P., the Secretary to
',,u` Admiralty, and Lieut.-General Sir F. Smith,
together with some other distinguished visi-
tor'4, the principal officers of the army and navy,
Ivad leading inhabitants of this town, were enter-
tained at a public dinner given by Mr. Jas. Budden,
the high constable, at the close of his year of office.
The banquet took place at the Sun Hotel, where
covers were laid for 200 guests.
The CHAIRMAN, after giving the customary loyal
toasts, proposed " The Army, Navy, and Volun-
teers," and in doing so highly eulogised the deeds
of the two services, and he had no doubt that wben-

ever occasion required it the volunteers would not
he backward in upholding the honour and consti-
tution of England. (Cheers.)
Lord CLARENCE PAGET, in rising to return
thanks for the navy, was received with loud cheers.
He said he begged to return them his sincere and

heartfelt thanks for the honour they had conferred

on the navy, and also for coupling his name
with the toast of prosperity to that branch of

the service to which it was his honour to be.

long. The chairman had alluded, in proposing
the health of the Queen, to the heavy affliction
v;hich had befallen her Majesty. (Hear, hear.) The

year just passed had, indeed, I:een a year of mourn.
ing for every man, woman, and child in the country,
It would not become him to allude further to that

event, and he would, therefore, content himself
with deploring—as every one in England did—the
great loss which her Majesty had sustained. Turn-
ing, however, to a much more congenial and cheer-
ing subject—that of the state of our army, navy,
and volunteers—he would not attempt to make any
comparison between the three services, being per-
suaded of this, that whether it was the army, the
navy, or the volunteers, the members of each asked
no better favour than to be called on to serve.

Captain Magnus briefly returned. thanks on behalf
of the volunteers, expressing the obligation that
force was under to the regular forces.
After some further toasts the proceedings ter.
minated.

Before making any observation with regard to that
branch of the service to which it was his great
honour to belong he must commence by apologising
for being at Chatham at all. (Laughter.) No doubt THE RIGHT HON. B. DISRAELI.
they were aware he had the honour to represent HIGH WYCOMBE, THURSDAY.
another part of their county, the different constitu- The annual meeting of the Society for Augment-
encies of which, he might remark, were like fami- ing Small Benefices in the diocese of Oxford was
lies—somewhat jealous of each other. (Laughter.) held this afternoon, the Bishop of Oxford in the
Such being the case, it was possible that his family chair. There were present the Right Hon. B. Dis-
at the other end of the country might ask, " Why raeli, M.P., the Right Hon. S. H. Walpole, M.P.,
does our member go to Chatham to make a speech ; Mr. Hubbard,M.P., the High Sheriff, Sir C. Young,
why does he not rather come here ?" In that case Archdeacon Bickersteth, the Rev. C. Lloyd, Rev.
he thought they would have an incident similar to T. Watts (rural dean), Mr. W. Lowndes, &c.
to that which, they would recollect, occurred some- The Right Rev. CrrAtiniArt opened the proceed-
what early in the evening, and a voice would be ings by explaining the nature and objects of the
heard to exclaim, " Paget you are wanted." (Great society, stating that in the diocese there were 72
laughter.) The excuse, however, that he must make livings with incomes under £lOO a-year, 85 livings
to his constituents must be that there were many with incomes under £l5O, and 66 livings with in-
important reasons why an individual connected comes under £2OO. This out of (313 benefices alto-
as he was with the Admiralty should entertain a gether showed a very large proportion of poverty as
regard for Chatham,' and therefore that it was his set against, generally speaking, a peat moderation
duty to accept the invitation given him by their of endowment in the other parishes. An adequate
high constable to be present at that dinner. (Ap- provision could not be made for the poor livings by
plause.) Chatham, he had no hesitation in saying, means of a division of the existing endowments. As
was about to become one of the most important of far as this object could be accomplished it was ac-
their naval stations, and therefore he felt it his complished by parliamentary enactment, under
duty to pay his respects to the inhabitants of that which a common fund was divided to meet the case
town. At Chatham they were about to possess the of the most necessitous districts, grants from which
most magnificent arsenal that England, or in fact, were made in proportion to the sums raised by local
all the world together ever possessed. (Cheers.) contribution.
The basin accommodation at Chatham, for provid- Archdeacon BICKERSTETH moved the first resolu-
ing which the greatest anxiety had been expressed tion—" That the poverty of a large number of the
by the House of Commons, would, after the whole livings in this diocese is a subject which demands
of the works in progress were completed, surpass the careful consideration of all those who are inte-
the whole of the boasted accommodation of France rested in the welfare of the National Church," and
put together. (Loud cheers.) Chatham had been in so doing entered into a variety of details for the
selected by the Admiralty for the honour of con- purpose of showing the necessity for increased ex-
structing one of their iron ships, and most excel- tions on behalf of the society.
lently had Chatham performed the task. (Cheers.) The Right Hon. B. DISRAELI, in seconding the
It was, therefore, with no inconsiderable amount of resolution, after some introductory remarks, pro-
pleasure that he had the privilege of making the ceeded to say—But it is not at all surprising that
acquaintance of the inhabitants of the town. With the Church of England should be a poor Church.
regard to the present state and condition of their Although in the aggregate its income may be
naval forces, it was with the utmost pleasure and very considerable, still if you look to its distribu-
gratification he could assure them that the British tion, as is now well known, you will perceive that
navy was never in a more satisfactory condition it offers to the great body of the clergy a very
than it was at the present moment. (Loud cheer- small stipend each. (Rear, hear.) It is not at all
ing.) He had no intention of making that smiler- surprising that the Church of England should not
eon in a mere boastful spirit, but he made it after be a rich Church, because the Church of England
full deliberation. Looking, then, at the improved has been despoiled. (Hear, hear.) That is not a
feeling throughout the service, at the increased fate peculiar to the Church of England; other
facilitieS for manning the navy, and also at the ex- Churches have been despoiled. But there is this
cellent feeling which now pervaded the officers and peculiarity with regard to the Church of England in
men of the merchant service, he was justified in this matter, that in other countries when the pro-
saying that if the day came—and God forbid that perty of the Church has been taken from it,
it should come—we were never in a better position whether the plea was right or whether it was
to enter into war, and there was never a time when wrong—and lam not now, of course, entering into
the navy of England was in a more efficient state. any controversy on the subject—but in other coan-
(Loud applause.) It was impossible for him to re- tries, when the church has been deprived of its pro-
frain alluding, on that occasion, to the large body of perty by the State, that property has at least been
naval volunteers. The most distinguished officers applied to public and national purposes. That has
in the merchant service had formerly entertained not been so in the case of the Church of England.
almost a horror of the navy, but at this moment The property of the Church of England has been
they had magnificent naval reserve of seamen, granted by despots and tyrants to their minions,
and the chtice of the best officers in the merchant and has been in this country, fortunately now
,•3erviee. (Cheers.) In order to make themselves many centuries ago, the foundation of the estab-
tl:oroughly efficient in their gun drill the officers lishment of powerful, families, which, by virtue of
of Ole reserve were working day by day, and he the possession of that property, and not from any
therei7ore felt justified in saying that if at any time public services, have had for generations a great
should be called upon to defend her Tiber- portion of the Government of this country under
thank God, would be supported by a
ties the navy, its power and its patronage. (Hear.) Well, I find in
powerful reserve. (Cheers.) In the several dis- these circumstances of aggravation in the case of the
cessions which had taken place in the House of spoliation of the Church in this country, compared
with the spoliation of Churches in other countries,
Commons respecting the construction of iron ships,
circumstances of consolation and of hope, because we
it was asserted that some other countries had sur-
passed us in that description of vessel. Thanks, live in an age when communities are governed by
however, to the great exertions made in our dock-
the influence of opinion, and when individuals
yards, our iron-cased fleet was in such a position as are regulated in their conduct to a great degree
'to render us safe from any attack, and before next by the influence of conscience; and I cannot for a
spring England would assume her proper place in moment believe that the estimable descendants of
t
that respect. (Cheers.) He thought it only right these original appropriators of Church property,
that the public should be assured of the highly satin-
when they learn—and in a country of free discus-
sion like the present they must all of them be well
factory state in which everything connected with
the naval department was. On the part of the informed upon the subject—when they know that
men of the highest education are, from a sense of
officers of the navy he begged to return them his
most sincere thanks. (Cheers.) duty and devotion, dedicating their lives to the
Lieut. General Sir F. SMITH said he felt some comforting of the people, and receiving for their
difficulty in acknowledged the toast on behalf of the labour stipends which even the meanest would
army, and in following the noble lord, whose elo- refuse. (Hear.) I cannot but believe that the
quence had so charmed them that evening. The estimable descendants of the original proprie-
noble and gallant lord had not said one word too tors, in the satiety of their splendour, must feel an
much in favour of maintaining the navy of England impulse that will make them apply a portion of
in iiB most efficient state, for he (the gallant general) that property which they ages ago unjustly obtained
had always maintained that England's first line to purposes of a character which society will recog-
of defence was her navy, and woe betide that nise, and by its approbation reward. (Hear, hear.)
is not
government which allowed the navy to fall below The society of this country is established upon the
that of any other nation. (Hear, hear.) He had principle of civil and
and religious liberty, and in my
often voted with his gallant friend for main- opinion it is impossible,certainly i't
t aining the efficiency of the navy and for car- sirable, to resist the complete development of that
ry.'ng out those reforms that were needed, and principle. (Hear.) At the same time you have a
is to say, a national
as ieng as he persevered in that course he Church established bylaw—that
should continue to do sq. (Hear, hear.) From Church—and there is an apparent inconsistency in
-what they? had heard that evening there could be the principle which you have adopted as the font-
" doubt
,that Chatham was about to become a dation of your social system and the existence of
great naval arsenal, the scheme now intended to be that Established Church, because the principle of
carried
out having been urged upon the attention civil and religious liberty has placed legislative
of the
'louse of Colimons by him many years ago. power in the hands of great bodies of the people
(Applause). They are also indebted to his noble who are not in communion with that Church, and
friend for the
•
Creation ofthe naval reserve force, they have used that power during the last 25 years,
and, although hl', gallant friend was too modest to with caution at first, with great deliberation at first,
admit that, he could.
not refrain from giving
him but as time advanced with greater boldness and
'the credit for the for
o f ree. (Cheersma.
. tion of that important re- greater energy, until within the last few years they_
serve
) With regard to the army, have made an avowed attack upon that Church,
he had no hesitation in %allngthatit was never in conducted
dd with rea gt
a better position. Thanks ability and great courage.
to the Duke of Cam- (Hear.) That being the case, you have what has
bridge and the Secretary °- t state for War, the sol- • occurred within the last quarter of a century. You
dier was now better cared for,
both in the barrack have an apparent want of sympathy between that
R,
and in the field, than ever he as before.
i
In which by our constitution is the national Church and
addition to the regular army
and the militia, a:great body of the nation, and that is a state of af-
they also had a force of volunteers which nom..
fairs which is no doubt to be highly deprecated.
bered 160,000 men. (Cheers.) If the volun- Twenty years ago, when the inconvenience was first
Leers composing this great force
would only very generally felt, ardent Churchmen, sincere
endeavour to learn the duties of soldiers
E IChurchmen, thought they had found a solution of
he saw no reason to fear that ng and would
powerful ever this difficulty by terminating the connection between
that the most
be invaded, or if invaded, Church and rate. They said " Terminate the
driven into the sea. (Cheers,) It anion between
army would be
Church and State, as the whole of
was for this reason he had never advocated shut- the nation I •
's no longer in communion with the
in forts, although there was one Church, and
ing up our troops -
lace which he had always insisted partially and to a considerable degree
p. Chatham. (Cheers.) prevails." That no doubt
strongly fortified, and that was
the P
mportance of gestion, and one that
is a very plausible sug-
For years he had advocated has been accepted by ingenu-
and he was ous and able minds. tut . . .
,making Chatham a central arsenal,
will be found one that • if it is looked into it
to be adopted.will lead, - . .
g,
'ad to find that his views were likely
for the results very different from the, •
in my opinion, to
A t Chatham they had the necessary space
pated by the individuals who aree which are antici-
formb;tion of the best basins in the world; but no-
prove I think unsatisfactoryfavourable to it,
gallant and
friend had been done until his noble andlollB
country. (Hear.) Because it
Of all -to the cannot be sup.
friend had taken the matter up. (Cheers.)

THE NATIONALITY OF THE CHURCH
OF ENGLAND.