The Sun.
London, England, 1862-02-28 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS—YESTERDAY.
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack
at five o'clock.
THE ITALIAN PROCLAMATION.
The Earl of DERBY said in consequence of the an-
- nouncement ho received the other evening that the Govern-
ment had no knowledge of the proclamation to which he
referred, which he must confess took him somewhat by
?surprise, he found it necessary to alter the terms of
his motion. He had furnished the noble earl with the
Italian and French newspapers, and he felt certain that he
would receive an answer which would give satisfaction to
the country. The proclamation had been issued at Le -
schara, and although it was addressed to a comman.
dant of brigade, yet it was sued by parties respon-
sible to the Government of Italy. The noble earl then
read the document in question, which set forth that no
person was to set foot within a certain territory, and that
all persons would be shot who were found in the possession
of more than one day's sustenance, and treated as
brigands. He would leave the document in all its native
atrocity, which purported to be issued by a government
elected by the general voice of the Italian people, to be ilealt
with by the noble earl. He did not think it was a proper
way to restore tranquillity after a district ba3 been
seriously disturbed. It was calculated to make the
whole district to 'which it referred a desert ;
and it was unbtard-of cruelty to make the innocent
suffer for the grfity, and a disgrace to any person wear-
ing the garl, of a soldier to have issued such a docu.
ment. the noble earl had remonstrated against the sink-
ing '..)f storm ships at the mouth of the harbour of Charles-
ton, but that was nothing compared to the atrocity of this
proclamation. What he wish ni to ask was, whether the
Government had yet received any information relative to
the genuineness of tb.t document in question from Sir Jas.
Hudson, and 'whether he could state if Sir James
had expressed to the Italian Government the feeling
such a proelasaation would excite in this eountry, and if Sir
James ,Lad not communicated the information to the coun-
tlY,, whether he was prepared to ask why such had not been
40120,

Earl RUSSELL said—ln rising to answer the noble earl
I will first address myself to the character of the notification
or proclamation which he has brought under your lordships'
notice. I entirely agree with all that the noble earl has
said of the character of that proclamation. (Hear.) I think
42othing ran be more cruel or more barbarous than to issue
such a proclamation, involving the innocent with the guilty,
and spreading desolation over a large district of country, in-
terfering with the pursuits of industry, and making the
Government a terror to all persons. (Hear.) I should add,
also, that I think such a proclamation would be most im-
politic. (Hear.) This is not the manner in which a country
can be pacified. This is not the manner in which the inha-
bitants of any district can be reconciled, if it be necessary,
to the rule of the Government which has been placed over
them. But with regard to the authenticity of this document
I must say I have na evidence. In the first place, it would
seem that no person would venture to publish in a news-
paper, certainly at Turin, whatever the politics of that news-
paper might be, a document of this nature which was not
genuine, casting upon the character of the Government
which rules at Turin an imputation which would be most
calamitous. The newspaper in question is the Armenia.
It is a newspaper well known for its strong political and
ecclesiastical opposition to the Government of King Victor
Emmanuel. But perhaps your lordships will allow me to
mention a conversation I once had with the late Count
Cavour, which bears upon the subject. I stated to Count
Cavour that his opponenee said that they were under great
disadvantages, for while the liberal newspapers which
were guilty of libel were always acquitted by the tribunal
before which they were tried, those which defended the
cause of the injured institutions of the country as it was
tailed, which was the cause of despotism and barbarity
as he should call it, when brought before the tribunal were
always convicted. I said to him, " I think that is a
charge which is made against you by those who are your
political enemies." Count Cavour said, "It is perfectly
true that newspapers on the one side are generally ac-
quitted, and certainly when the newspapers on the other
side are brought before the tribunal they have been gene-
rally punished. But this inference," he said, " has struck
me so much that I have given an order that no Govern -
went prosecution, should be instituted against those news-
papers; they may say in safety what they please, they may
libel me as much as they like ; I have determined that they
shall not be prosecuted for anything they may say."
(Hear.) This may perhaps account, in some degree, for
the license which this newspaper gives itself, and I have
heard that there have been instances in which documents
have been published in this newspaper which afterwards
have been found not to be genuine. (Hear, hear.) I trust
this may be one of the instances in which documents not
genuine and real Wave been published in that newspaper—
and I am further confirmed in this by the absence of testi-
mony on the one side, and what I have read in these papers
on the other. In the first place this proclamation, which
'was published on the 19th February, at Turin, has not been
noticed by our Minister at Turin in any manner, nor has it
been noticedby her Majesty's consul at Naples. Although
it had been supposed to be published in a Neapolitan news-
paper, and in that case it would have naturally come
under his observation. (Hear, hear.) In the next place,
while there was no evidence to prove the genuineness of the
document, he had been told that it bore a striking resem-
blance to a proclamation published in 1810 by the then Go-
vernment of Naples. (Hear, hear.) This, I confess, gives
me great reason to doubt the genuineness of the document.
I should be glad, certainly, for the sake of the Italian Go-
vernment, and I may add, as the noble lord has said, for
the sake of humanity, if the proclamation should prove not
to be genuine, and that no such notification had been issued
by an officer of the King of Italy. There have been, no
doubt, in other instances great severities practised against
those who are brigands, and who are disturbing the south-
ern provinces of Italy. I must state that I believe the pre-
sent condition of the Government of the King of Italy in the
southern provinces is put to a very hard trial. There is not
existing, as the noble lord would seem to imply, any civil
war in Italy, and those who are found committing murder
and robbery are found generally in parties of 10 or 20 per-
sons, that number being rarely exceeded, though they
sometimes muster 40 or 50 together. They come into this
country, they occupy these woods, tFey are attacked by the
regular troops of the King of Italy, and they fly back when
they are dispersed by the regular troops, and the country is
for the moment free from them. They fly back into the
territories of the Pope. At the frontier of those territories
the Italian troops are stopped, these men are disarmed,they
are given up to the Government of the Pope, aril though
committing murders and robberies, these men are left free
to go where they please, and they return as brigands, and
will do so again and again. There is not of course much to
be expected from the Popish Government of friendship to
the King of Italy, but it is not the common course of con-
duct between neighbours, ( r a course tending to the preser-
vation of peace. These are not men who are carrying on a
civil war; they are men who, many of them, in the time of
Francis 11., committed their robberies and murders, taking
the name of carbenari, or any other name to cover their
designs; and now and then I dare say they may take
the name of servants of the deposed King of Italy. These
disturbances have given great anxiety to the Government of
Turin. I have just received a communication, stating that
Baron Ricasoli had declared that during the winter months
brigandage had diminished, in consequence of the scarcity
of food and shelter, but it was likely that as spring was ad-
vancing these disorder s would be renewed. I must say, how-
ever, that issuing such proclamations as that which has been I
quoted is not the best way to support the King's authority ;
but, on the other hand, it is fr:ghtful to see that the cause
of the exiled sovereign cannot be sustained except by small
parties of brigands, maintained in the hope that their pre-
sence may serve as an argument to show that the Govern-
ment of the King is incapable of reducing the country to
order. But in spite of all these obstacles, I have the greatest
confidence that the Government of the King of Italy will
justify the selection of the people. I have stated hero, as
elsewhere, my admiration of the noble attitude of the
Italian people, of which, when compared with that of other
peoples in a state of revolution, they have no reason to be
ashamed. The country has, in my opinion, shown itself
worthy of the liberty which it seeks; and I trust that be-
fore long their independence will be recognised by all the
Powers of Europe. (Hear.)
The Earl of DERBY said that the noble earl had made
a very eloquent and impassioned speech, but he had not
answered his question. What he (Lord Derby) wanted to
'we whether the noble earl had received any intima-
uon respect i4g this supposed proclamation from Sir James
Hudson, The noble earl might have telegraphed and ob-
tained information since Tuesday last. What he wishqd
to know was, 'whether the noble earl had sent, or meant to
send to Sir 3. mid
range for information; and to ask him
whether he had
anytl representations to the Govern-
ment of Turin. Also,
the document to turn out
genuine, he wished to I:neral whether
s Government to it was the intention of
her Majesty'
make any representations to
the court of Turin.
Earl RUSSELL had already Stated
that he had received
o information from Sir James
w
ent. He had also stated his ?sees respecting the docu-
r suspecting its
genuineness ; and the first thing to be doge WAS to ascertain
if it was genuine. He had telegraphea to
mI
tear: ty
;t übrunt
Turin, and had
not as yet received an answer. Should the doe;
out to be genuine, he should make such communications as
be thought fit to the Governmentthoaftthoef
the
hing
the case was quite different from
if he mentioned the matter mall it wouldBtb7EintiZrzat) 74
perfect
friendship to the Italian Government.
The Earl of NI ALMESB URY said that if the noble earl
found the document to be genuine, and that his agents in
Turin had made no representations respecting it, the noble
earl should state to his agents his opinion of their conduct.
So much exaggeration was there on both sides in Italy, thdt
it was impossible to
get at the truth respect ng affairs in
that country unless from the faithful reports of our own
agents.
The Duke of ARGYLL hoped that the house would not
leap to the conclusion that the proclamation was genuine.
He had on the previous evening met an Italian gentleman,
who had just arrived from Turin, He asked this gentleman
about the proclamation, and his answer was that ho had