The Sun.
London, England, 1862-03-19 00:00:00

that the Solicitors to the Treasury prepared the case ?
(Hear, hear.) Did he believe for a moment that any
man who was not in his own mind conscious of <no possi-
bility of its being done would entert:.
*ln the Con option that
any rnarr_ could be so bas(; ag to mangle and garble an Act
Parliament to secure a result in which he h td no interest ?
His contempt for the insinuation was su h that it was
scarcely possible to find words to express it, What was the
Lord Chancellor to do but what he had done? He was

called upon provide 19,000 and odd pounds instead of having
to provide, as he imagined, between £6,000 and £7,000.
What could be done under the circumstances except to have
the case submitted to the law advisers of the Crown? (Hear,

hear.) With a sincere desire to do everything in his power,

he found himself in a situation of very great embarrassment.
All he could do was to frame the clause in a very courteous,
and, at the same time, specific manner. If for these clerks
was claimtd the payment of these salaries as a matter of
right, then the Government being advised it was not a
re.atter of right, all he could do was to expedite in the quick-
est manner a mode of trying the question. In the 22d sec-
tion he stated that these officers had a strong moral claim
to favourable consideration, and he asked their lordships,
could he have gone further ? (Hear, hear.) He had ven-
tured to suggest that the entire claims of these men would
be respected if they went before a select committee ; and he
asked any noble lord present what fairer course could he
have adopted to put their claims beyond donbtr But the only
return he received for this, so far as his assailants' conduct
was concerned, was to hold him Up to ridicule, to treat hits
with insinuations, and, notwithstanding all the irritation
which the debate was likely to encourage, he begged to
say that ho would feel obliged to learn, and would gladly
adopt any course which might seem wiser or better than
the one he had recommended. He had spared no effort
to secure these men. And, notwithstanding the step
taken by the advisers of these men, and the conduct of
Mr. Commissioner Law, who was unworthy that he
should stop to comment upon, he (the Lord Chancellor)
had taken the step to apply to the Treasury for cheques to
pay these men their salaries, and though the cheques were
signed not one of the officials thought it worth his while
to take this money. Ho had thereopon Vvritten to Mr. Law
that if the men took the .sums allotted them it would not
prejudice their other claims, and yet this very act of his had
received a wrong construction. He admitted that, in one
respect, he had not done all he should have done. It was
his duty as Attorney-General to inquire into the real posi-
tion of these gentlemen. He did not know until the matter
was brought before him this year what was that pooitiou.
It was said he ought to have had a perfect knowledge of all
who would have claims under his bill. Surely these
gentlemen, when they remained passive as the bill went
through Parliament, were the best guardians of their own
interests, and it was natural, if they expressed no ground of
complaint, that he could not be aware they would suffer any
grievance. He did not wish to prejudice their rights; but it
was not likely the House of Commons would have given
them full salaries as compensation, irrespective of their re-
spective lengths of service or age. Besides, many of them
held their situations during pleasure, and under the act
these persons would obtain a freehold. Surely a freehold at
a less salary was better than a situation during pleasure at
a higher. All these things were to be considered, and he
thought their case would be best considered in a select com-
mittee. It was a subject of regret to him that this scene
should have occurred to-night. But notwithstanding it he
was still willing to do what he could. He did not mean that
he would do what he was compelled to do ; but he asked—
what more could he do than he had proposed to do ? If
any one could suggest what could be done with propriety
he would forget all the irritation which these events were
likely to produce, and try to do all in his power.
The Earl of DERBY said the language which had fallen
from the noble and learned lord on the woolsack was such
as their lordships had not been accustomed to hear, and if
the noble lord persisted bait, he should not be surprised if it
produced a feeling of irritation. He said he treated such a
gentleman as Mr. Commissioner Law with contempt.
The LORD CHANCELLOR—No I The manner in
which the correspondence had been dealt with.

The Earl of DERBY saw no privacy in any such corres-
pondence.
He would, however, leave such painful matter,
and call their lordships' attention to the circumstances of
the case before them, and which were admitted on all sides.
By the Bankruptcy Act of last session, for which the Go-
vernment justly claimed a great deal of credit, the clerks in
the Insolvents' Court were transferred to the Court of
Bankruptcy, and it was the intention of Government that
they should not suffer by the transfer. With respect to the
discrepancies in the two returns upon which the noble and
learned lord,who was himself rather free in making charges,
insinuated that these gentlemen had, to increase their com-
pensation, misrepresented their income, they were easily
accounted for—the first being the return of the average ~of
seven years, and the other that of the amount last year re-
ceived. As regards the clause which was intended to
secure to them the full amount of their fees and emoluments,
it appeared to him and men of legal minds, and he was
assured so by the late Lord Chancellor that it was suffi-
cient for its object. However, as the error had arisen
through the ignorance of the noble and learned lord, he
ought to have advised the Government to introduce a de-
claratory bill, and he was convinced the House of Com-
mons would make no objection to passing it.
Earl GRANVILLE thought the lecture administered to
the noble lord on the woolsack quite undeserved, especially
as the noble and learned lord who had brought form and the
subject, had throughout his speech indulged in sneer and
badinage. It was impossible for Government to acknowledge
as legal rights what the law officers told them did not exist,
but if the gentlemen aggrieved wished to try that right,
the remedy was in their own hands. If, however, they re-
ferred their claims to a select committee, her Majesty's
Government would enforce them on moral and equitable
grounds. He hoped the result of this discussion would en-
courage them to take that course.

Lord CRAN WORTH regretted the feeling of acrimony
which had been displayed, and confirmed the Earl Derby
in respect to the assurance given to the select committee by
the Lord Chancellor. He suggested that instead of asking
the clerks to become petitioners, and so abandon their claims
on the ground of their legality, Government should submit
the matter to a select committee.

Earl RUSSELL thought it better in all legal reforms to
at once compensate the officers whose duties wero interfered
with, and pointed out the difficulty in asking the Treasury
to pay the amount of these fees, when the law officers of
the Crown stated that they had no legal existence.

Lord KING SDONVN likewise expressed his regret at the
feeling of irritation which had found vent, and seconded
the suggestion that the evil complained of should be
remedied by a declaratory Act.
Lord REDE SDALE thought the discussion which had

taken place equivalent to the fullest inquiry by a select
committee, and that immediate Parliamentary action might
be taken in the House of Commons.
The Duke of SOMERSET accused Lord Chelmsford of
unfairness to the Lord Chancellor in the manner in which
he had introduced the question to the attention of the house.
The louse of Commons would be sure to take alarm at the
discrepancies in the returns already referred to, and would
not proceed to legislate without the fullest inquiry.
After some explanatory observations from the LORD
CHANCELLOR and the Earl DERBY, the subject dropped,
and their lordships adjourned at five minutes to nine
o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS-YESTERDAY.
The SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.

The Deeside Railway Bill was read a third time and
passed. The following bills were considered and ordered
for third reading :—Bradford Corporation Water; Man-
chester, Sheffield, and Lincolnshire Railway (Additional
Powers) ; and Weston super Mare Pier.