The Sun.
London, England, 1837-12-15 00:00:00

Member. His object in rising was not to indulge in any thing
of a
personal nature towards the Honourable Member, but as
as -
I,e„,"nn could to guard against prurient legislation, and pre-
T. the Statute-book from being loaded with unnecessary laws.
Noble
JOHN RUSSELL said that he understood from his
11e Friend that the Commissioners of Woods and Forests had
:°_o3. bjectien to the introduction of the Bill, but he entertained
le!rae doubt as to its progress. The consent of the Crown
Ras necessary before the Bill could be introduced, and he
would have no objection to the 13r11 being introduced Low,
tiththe understanding that the consent of the Crown should
mgfiren at a future stage.
110 SPEAKER was of opinion, that the Bill might be
ltreduced without the consent of the Crown ; but that it
was a measure which ought to originate with the Government.
After a few words from Mr, MAHON Y, who stated that
bA had taken charge of the Bill, at the suggestion of the
Noble Lord,
The Bill was, by leave, withdrawn.
RUSSIA.
Mr. ATT WOOD rose for the purpose of calling the atten-
tion of the House to the recent aggressions of Russia, add to
Russ some questions to her Majesty's Ministers reepectinie the
and Circassia—the affair of the Vixen and the Treaty of ITn-
kiar Skelessi. He must say many things had surprised him, al-
though they were told that a man of experience should not be
surprised at anything in human affairs. He was not so far ad-
Itanced in years yet as to be incapable of feeling surprise
°n ,`zany occasions, and he felt much surprise on the occasion
When fl..r Majesty's Ministers met Parliament. In neither the
speech from the Throne, nor in any they had since beard, had
one single word proceeded from their mouths, or the royal mouth,
respecting the distress existing among the industrious classes.
He Was still more surprised at the position which Russia was
assuming in the affairs of Europe, and he was astonished that
her Majesty's Ministers should sit there day after day, and
week after week, troubling themselves with matters unworthy
the consideration of that House--fit only -for discussion in a
village pot-house ; and while they were discussing these little
nasty matters, Russi r was preparing a terrible war up-
°u England at her own most convenient time.—( Hear, heap. )
~„.
be Bon. Member for Finsbury (Mr. Duncombe) who he be-
lieved to he a very good man, seemed to think be ( Mr. Att-
Wool) was rather sanguiee in his views of the power of Russia ;
but he held in his bend a pamphlet written by Com-
mander Crawford, from which ;:e would read a few
exc-acts, who described the state of ilia Russian fleet
at crenstadt. He ( Mr. Attwood) was sorry that a trades-
roan like him should find it his duty to bring forward this
great and sesous matter, while the officers of the army and
navy who sat there for the vindication of the honour of
their country—if they sat there for anything—athend
if they did not sit there for that purpose,
sooner they quitted it the better—(Laughter)—did not
think proper to bring this question forward. It did not be-
come him to criticize their motives, but he might possibly
suspect that one set of men were alarmed lest they
should incur the displeasure of the Ministers ; and ano-
ther set, lest they should incur the displeasure of the
Petto Ministers—the would-be :Ministers—(laughter);--
buthe trusted the honour of England would not be compro-
nlised in consequence of their silence. Captain Crawford, in
his pamphlet, stated it was a strange feeling that
,came over him as an Englishman on finding himself
in the Baltic, with twenty-six line of Russian battle ships,
With 30,000 men, better soldiers than sailors, and four months
of provision on board, knowing that to protect our Chan-
nels and our ports we had only seven line of battle ships in
state of preparation, and those not fully manned.
Captain Crawford stated that he absolutely trembled for
the preservation of our ancient sovereignty of the seas.
The Hon. Member proceeded to read several long extracts
from the same pamphlet as to the state of discipline in which
the Russian Navy now was, through the exertions of officers
ago had received their nautical education in the English
Navy ; and concluded by stating that Britain no longer enjoyed
that superiority upon the ocean which she had long boasted.
Re did not care whether Russia was our friend or no—the
moment a country depended upon the friendship of a tyrant,
that moment the people became slaves. Yet, while all this
Was going on, the Government were quietly sitting at—home
asleep upon the benches of the House.—( Laughter.) He had
told them three or four years ago how things were going
en._( A laugh.) What did they laugh at ? Ills Hon. Friend
laughed, but would he laugh if the Russians appeared
lii twenty-six line of battle ships on the coast of Norfolk ?
(Laughter.) They might laugh. but he spoke upon the au.
thority of an officer in the British navy, and England
had no power to prevent them appearing off that coast.
Upon the authority of the American captain of the Inde.
Pendent, he last year met a fleet of eighty vessels of war be-
longing to Russia, yet England had no power to prevent them
appearing off this coast. What force had England to prevent
them entering the river Thames, and burning Sheerness?
Ile was told that they had six ships at Lisbon—they were
ostensibly kept there for the purpose of protecting the life of
the Queen of Portugal—they were no such thing ; they did
not case a rush for the life of the Queen ; they were
Wanted for the purpose of crushing liberty in that
Country ; they were wanted for the purpose of allowing the
Queen of Portugal to break her oath, and crushing the rising
liberties of that country. Bring away those ships, and then
Yeti would have thirteen at the mouth of the Thames,
but the Russians would come with twenty-six, and then
where would be the power of boasted England ?---( Hear.)
They ought to be prepared to meet a war with Russia. They
Ought to be prepared to met France and Holland and America
combined with Russia. All the little jealousies which had so long
;listed in other countries would be aroused,and they should there-
Ohe p repared to crush Russia at once. Our Saxon ancestors
'`` lost the dominion of the seas—they had a national debt
or a
private debt, or sonic infernal bedevilment of that
sortes(Lsughter)—which prevented their meeting the
on Danes
their
faces and sung psalms, instead of preparing for the fight.
While he was stating these facts one Hon, Gentleman
laughed—( Renewed laughter) —another Hon. Gentleman cried,
and a third Hon. Gentleman went to sleep ; and that was the
way England in these latter days listened to the degradation
of her ancestors.—( Hear, and a laugh,) He would be glad
to hear what answer her Majesty's Government intended
to make to the questions he was about to ask, and:what
remonstrances they had addressed to the Russian Goverument for
its aggressions. He believed he had said enough upon that point,
--(Cries of " Go on.") Why, he could perhaps speak for two
hours more upon the subject—(Much laughter)—but he would
be glad to know why the Noble Lord had not destroyed the
15 line-of-battle ships which the Russiansnow had in the Black
Sea, and which he could have effected on several occasions.
If the fleet which Sir E. Codringten commanded in the
Downs in 1831 had been sent (as was expected that it would
have been) into the Baltic, Poland would at this moment
have been independent. Lord Grey disgraced his coun-
try and his principles by allowing Poland to fall. But
the Duke of Wellington commenced English degradation by
the Treaty of Adrianople, and by suffering te Rus
pass the Pruth in 1828. The Russians deceived both Mr. Can-
ning and the Duke of Wellington, and began a separate
war on Turkey,'contrary to her declaration that she would not
carry hostiities beyond the Black Lea ; she carried them into
the Mediterranean- The Duke of Wellington being stran-
gled by sinister influences at home, allowed the Russians to
blockade the Dardanelles ; and was bambooz!ed by
Count Ncsselrode into the belief that in so doing
-British interests were advanced.—( Hear.) A system of
our national degradation commenced by the Duke of Welling-
ton, and carried on by Lord Grey, was to be finished by Lord
'Melbourne. The lion. Member remarked upon the war which
Russia was now engaged in with Circasssia. If Russia ob-
tained a footing in Circassia, our Indian possessions might be
endangered. He was nut, however, much afraid of In lie
being threatened, for he was one of those who considered that
British India, with a population of '27,000 Europeans, and
One hundred million natives, was in a better situation to
threaten St. Petersburgh than St. Petersburgh was to threaten
Calcutta. But Russia could do much with Persia and Turkey
added to her own dominions. With regard to Cireass'a, the
question was, nut whether Russia had a right or not to that
country, but whether it was for our interest one
not
the that Persia
and Turkey should be overrun by Russia. Ag, Cireas-
sians were devoted to England and hated the Russians, and
3.et we pretended not to know that our honour and the hide-
tendence of our country were deeply concerned in the strugs
Pie which was being carried on upon their coasts. The Hon.
Gentleman then referred to the case of the Vixen, and to
the fact that no notice of the blockade of the Dardanelles hae
appeared in the Gazette, to which, however, the Foreign
Secretary had referred Captain Bell before be sailed,
and who was, in consequence of the absence of such
necessary notice, taken prisoner, his ship condemned,
and himself cast into prison, whence he was only li-
berated by what was called the condescension of the Ernom-
Perot-. What had David Hume—a very different man fr
tic Hon. Member for Kilkenny—( A laugh)—said seventy
years ago ? He had said that the time would come when the
national debt would be the ruin of England, and when fo-
reign nations would, out of respect for England's former
glory, abstain, perhaps, from attacking her in other ways, but
use towards her the language and the tone of "measured in.
soleace." Here, then, in the case of the Vixen, had
'Hume proved himself a true prophet. Here was the
"measured insolence" of Russia.—(Hear, hear.) Lord
Durham's embassy to St. Petersburgh was the something less
than the ridiculous mouse which the Foreign Secretary bad
brought forth in reference to the policy of Russia.—( A
laugh.) Tie Noble Lord had been very valiant on a late
occasion among the Venezuelans, and had taught us how to
come bullies to the weak, and cowards to the strong. Be-
fore the Emperor Nicholas the Noble Lord was abashed and
humble. They were told that the press was the public in-
structor ; but he considered it nothing less than a public im-
Position, no matter by whom conducted. Not one paper in the
Zeintry spoke the truth—they were all the toos oeithe
-"ries, Whigs, or Radicals—they were anything l
butt the ore
gans of the people of England—they concealed from the
People all those great truths which he felt himself obliged to
rise and enforce. He hoped that this country would yet re-
cover the unbought glories which it acquired during a period
of 700 years, and that England, who had plucked the great
Napoleon
from his throne, would not stand tamely still, to use
the language of the writer of the pamphlet to which he had
referred, to be delivered up to be crushed by the Great
Northern Bear. —( Loud laughter.) Now what was the ob-
tet which Russia had in view when that country offered insult
o this in the instance of the Vixen? Why, to prove to the
rest of Europe that England was no longer what she had
beets. This was one consequence of the national debt, and it
brought forcibly to his mind what Mr. Broughamonce said
iluen referring w that debt. The opinion which Mr,
roug,liam then expressed was, that this country was " bound
1
el' a penalty of eight hundred millions not to go to war," and
cio one who paid the least attention to passing events could,
4thought, doubt that the fact was so. The truth was that
gland was in the position of a fat fool walking along the

Strand with a notice on his back intimating that his pockets
were full of money, but, as he never meant to fight or go to
law, he might be insulted with impunity.—(Loud laughter.)
The fact was, that they should at once relieve themselves from
their debt with the same indifference that a lion would shake a
dew-drop from his mane.—( Laughter.) With respect to the
Radicals, he must say that he believed them to be worse friends
of liberty than either the Whigs or the Tories.—( Hear.) Yes,
he considered that the most remorseless and bitterest enemies
England ever had were the Radical'. Of all the enemies the.
industrious classes in this country had, he must express it as his
opinion that the Radicals were decidedly the worst, and this
he did not hesitate to say, although he was one of them.—
( Hearehear, and great laughter.) Oh, but there was some
little difference between him and them, for he was not quite
so had as they were. He was the real friend of liberty, but
they were its foes.—( Hear, hear.) The Radicals wished
merely to enable the industrious classes to preserve life, but
they cared not a jot about the national honour ; while his view
of liberty was, that he would pull clown all the institutions
the country to maintain its independence and glory among the
nations of the world, and place the poorer classes in sech a
situation as would enable them to live in comfort by their
honest labour. lie now came to the treaty of Unkiar Sky-
lessi. It might be unjust, perhaps, to sweep away the national
debt. Such a measure might cause anarchy, confusion, and
destruction ; but, netwithstami.ing all this, he not hesitate
to declare that he would run the risk rather than see the
honour of England sacrificed. Well, the treaty of Unkiar
Skelessi was entered into two years ago, and It had been ob-
jected to him by the Noble Lord the S, cretary of State for
Foreign Affai. s, on a former occasion, that he (eight to have
brought it under notice before. Why, he hail called the at-
tention of that House to it four years ago. He then knew it
was coming, and he gave the Noble Lord a caution against
adopting the course wnich he had afterwards taken re-
spect to this treaty. He had told the Noble Lord that Con-
stantinople would be in the hands of the Russians, an l did not
the result prove that he was right ?—( Cries of " No, no.")
Well, but the Russians occupied Para, and that was as much
part of Constantinople as Southwark was part of London.
But what had this country got by the treaty of Unkiar Ske-
lessi ? The Noble Lord had stated that it was a treaty of re-
ciprocity ; but if so, the reciprocity, as far as England was
concsrncd, was perfectly Irish, for not only was Turkey ex-
cluded from the Dardanelles, but this country also. Why
had not the Noble Lord taken, as he ought to have d ane,
possession of the Dardanelles, when he found the Sultan too
weak to defend a point of such immense importance, not only
to Turkey, but to this country. What had the French done,
although they had never occupied the position on the seas
that England had always until recently maintained ? Why,
they had taken possession of Algiers, on the ground that it was
an appanage of Turkey. The French, too, had also taken
possession of Ancona, because they knew the Pope was unable
to defend it, and deemed the place necessary for their own in-
terest. Three years ago six line-of-battle ships would have
been sufficient to have :aken possession of the Dardanelles.
Two years ago twelve line-of-battle ships would have been
able to accomplish the same object, aed even now it could be
effected by twenty line-of-battle ships. He now came to the
point which he considered the most important of all, and that
was, the propriety of increasing the British Navy. The Go-
vernment said they did not like this expense ; but when they
must know that Russia, or any other Power, might insult this
country on the coast of Norfolk, or of Lincoln, even at the
mouth of the Thames, were they not bound to place the
Navy in such a condition as would en able them to repulse any
sudden attack that might be made against Britain by Russia or
any other Power? He thought that twenty more line-of-
battle ships were required to complete the naval armament of
this country. This would require an addition of 20,000
sailors; and if it should be said that so many men could not
be obtained, he would tell them the reason why men were
unwilling to enter the Navy. The fact was that the sailors of
this country were ill-paid and badly treated ; but still, if proper
means were adopted, he had no doubt a sufficient number could
be easily procured, as he verily believed that nothing would be
more popular than a war against Russia.—( Cries of " No, no.")
The questions which he had to put to the Noble Lord were—
First,awas it the intention of her Majesty's Ministers to adopt
any measures for the purpose of preventing the Russian naval
armament at Cronstadt ? Secondly, was it their Intention
to give assistance to the Circassians in the war between them
and Russia, and allow Russia to take possession of the most
important country in Asia ? Thirdly, was it their intention
to obtain redress for the audacious violation of international
law committed in the instance of the Vixen, or to take any
steps for rescinding the treaty of Unkiar Skelessi ? And,
fourthly, did they intend to make such addition to the Royal
Navy as the present eircunistences of Europe seemed to re-
quire ? In conclusion, the lion. Q.lol.emtin moved two reso-
lutions', in accordance (as we understood) with his ewe view
as to the course which the Government ought to take
both with respect to Russia and the increase of the navy.
Sir EDWARD CODRINOTOS wended the motion,
He thought that a great deal had been said by the Honour-
able Member for Birmingham which deserved the attention
of that !louse ; and he entirely agreed with him that the condi-
tion of the navy was much too low for the safety of the country
The Honourable and Gallant Officer referred to the con-
duct of Russia prior to the battle of Navarino, arid said that
at that period Russia evinced the strongest disposition to sot
with honour, and to take no advantage of her allies, When,
however, it became known in the East that his late
Mejesty characterized the affair of Navarino as •‘ as un-
toward event," an expression which no King should have been
advised to use under such circumstances, the Viceroy of
Egypt considered the time had come when lie could make
ear advantageously on Turkey, without the interference of
either England or France. Russia, therefore, was forced into
that war ; and, for his own part, he must say that, driven as
Russia was into such a position, she was perfectly entitled to
all the advantages which she had reaped from it. As Russia
had shown such activity in augmenting the navy, he thought
this country ought not to remain supine in this respect.—
( Hear, hear.)
Lord PA LME RSTON would first answer the questions
which the Hon. Member for Birmingham bad put to him.
His first question was, whether any measures were intended
to be adoitted to prevent the naval armament of Russia at
Cronstadt ? With respect to the equipment of a fleet by a
Foreign Power, he apprehended no Government could inter-
fere ; neither did he think any Government could ask another
nation what ships they were building, or what veze.ele they
equipped ; but he at the same time admitted that the inquiry
was one whieit every Government was entitled to make when
they saw a specific force either by sea or land.
which was an appearance indicating intentions the were
unnecessary as regarded other Powers. The naval armament
of Russia in the Baltic had led to an explanation between the
English and the Russian Governments, and he could only say
that the explanation given by the Russian Government was
perfectly satisfactory, and, although the Russian fleet was
fitted out for the purpose of being reviewed, the fullest as-
surance was given that this display of a naval force was not in
tended as any indication of hostile intentions.—( Hear, hear.)
With regard to the next question of the Hon. Member, as to
wtether it was the intention of her Mejesty's Government to
give assistance to the Circassian*, his answer was, that it
was not the intention of Her Majesty's Government to inter-
fere in any Nay in the war between Russia and the Circas-
sians. As to the next question, as to whether it WAS the
intention of her Majesty's Government to adopt any measures
for obtaining redress in the affair of the Vixen, his answer
was, that the papers relating to that transaction, and a'.l that
took place on the subject, were laid before the House during
the last Session. He thought that the Russian Govern-
inent had given such an explanati in with reference to the
affair of the 6 ixen as ought to satisfy he.- Majesty's Go-
vernment that no further proceeding should be adopted either
as regarded the honour of England- or the claim of the own-
ers for redress. It wile not a violation of the blockade in the
sense in which the Honourable Member used the term,
but a contravening of the municipal or custom-house regu-
lations of Russia, which gave rise to the capture of the Vixen.
The question which the Hon. Member next asked was whe-
ther her Majesty's Government intended to adopt any mea-
sures either for rescinding or abandoning the treaty of Un-
kiar Skelessi. The papers connected with this treaty wore
laid before the House two years ago, and as the whole matter
was then fully discuseed, he had only to inform the Hon. Mem-
ber that it was not the intention of her Majesty's Government
to have recourse to any measuri s for compelling either Russia
or Turkey, two independent nations, to cancel this treaty _
( Hear, hear.) He did not think it necessary for him to fol-
low the Hon. Member through his statements respecting the
wars between the Saxons and the Danes, nor would he attempt
any vindication of the Government of the Duke of Welling-
ton in 1628 and 1829, as it was sufficient for him so confine
himself to those matters which wore connected with the Go-
vernments of Lord Grey and Lord Melbourne, of which he
had the [concur to be a Member. Neither the Radicals nor any
other of the Ilon. Member's friends partook of his alarms, and
it was clear that the Membe: s of that House, that the press—
the b ise, unfeeling, heedless press—that the people of Eng-
laud, did not participate ie his opinions or share in his alarms.
It was not in the principles for which the Hon. Member had
contended that he (Lord Palmerston) differed with him ; it
was simply in the application of these principles, in connection
with what lead been stated by the Hon. Member. The Hon.
Member seemed much more anxious to find an occasion fur
going to war than to entertain any serious apprehension that
war would be forced upon us. The Honourable Mem-
ber, feeling that this House would obint, with their eyes
open, go to war, had imitated the and and sooth-
• ieeeel Manner of a Noble Lord now a Member of the other
111-lOuse of Parliament, of whom it was said that he often
accomplished by good humour what other persons had not
been able to effect by more vigorous and pugnacious pro.
ceedings. If they were to act upon the advice of the Hon.
Member flaw•• should go and burn the Russian fleet in the
Baltic, destriy the fleet in the Black Sea, and, as the friends
of the Sultan, take possession of the Dardanelles, and hold
them until such time as he (the Sultan) would be better able
to keep them himself.—( A laugh.) This was certainly an
easy mode of sliding into war at a time when there were
no measures directly leading into it. The Hon, Member
had professed a great anxiety for the interests of the country,
and he had shown so great a zeal and attachment to the
honour and institutions of the country that he said that, to
defend either, hp was prepared to sacrifice the House of Lords,
the House of Commons, eed the Crown into the bargain,
and to throw the national debt into the ocean of oblivion
rather than the institutions of the country should suffer or the
national honour be tarnished —( A laugh ) And when by the
destruction of the national debt, the Honourable Member
should have succeeded in effecting a national bankruptcy, and
when, moreover, he should have destroyed the House of Lords
and House of Commons, he was at a loss to know where the
Honourable Member would find the
institutions, and the
honour, too, for the prwrvation of which he would seek to
contendl—( A laugh.) With respect taw tho Rtissir fleet in
the Baltic, the Government had acted on the priniicple that
England had a right to look with jealousy on any ostentatious

display of naval force in IA Russia or any other foreign
Pow; r night indulge. But when tle. llonouralle Member
said that there was a considerable display of naval force o:,
the part of Russia, and that we should look to cur own naval
establishment, and consider it ssi..h reference to our means of
maintaining a war, that was a doctrine which he ( Lord Pal-
merston) by no n.eans felt himself bound to concede, aad
which, moreover, it would not be prudent to act ups. It
was a nice distinction to decide upon, and one which ought a!
all times to be left to the prudence and responsibility of the
Executive Government, who knew fcom day to day the nwure
of the relations existing between this and foreign Governments.
They should be allowed to judge what was the time of peace,
and when there was no immediate prospect of war before
them, what ought to be the amount of a peace establishment.
Whilst they took care that they should not be left without
adequate protection, they should not unnecessarily increase
the burthens of the country. The Hon. Member would r
collect that two years ago, when a proposition was made by
his lion. Friend the Secretary to the Adetiralty to increase
the navel force of the country, that proposition was not satin.
factory to ,me parties in the House. He did not recollect
whether, in making that proposition. his lion. Friend hail
fully stated the grounds on which the Government had decided
on proposing that augmentation. but he believed that his Hun
Friend had at that time called the attention of the House to
the naval armaments of Russia, and to the periodical equip-
ment of her fleets. He did not admit, as far as her
Majesty's Government were acquainted, that there was
aey ground to think that there was an intention on the
part of any Foreign Power to insult England—( Ilea-)
but he believed that, if any such intentions could be en-
tertained, the ships we had now at sea would be perfectly
well able to protect this country from Russia or from any
other Power whatever.—( Hear.) He thought that the House
ought to place confidence in the Executive Government, to
determine on their own responsibility, what amount of naval
force it was necessary to propose to Parliament. Wieh re-
spect to the first point of the Hon. Member's speech, with re-
spect to the fleet in the Baltic, he should not be-itate to state
that be thought that Russia had a larger naval force than was
requisite for any defence of her own territory, or than was
consistent with the general practice of other countries in the
time of peace. That certainty was a point to which the House
and the country were bound to direct a watchful eye.
This vigilance was quite right and becoming. But he did
not appreheed at present any hostile proceedings on the part
of Russia. Having, then, reason to be satisfied that Russia
did not entertain any intentions hostile to this country ;
thinking, that, on the contrary, she was disposed to be friendly
towards this country, under these circumstances the Govern-
ment did not feel it necessary to propose any further additions
to our naval force, on the ground which had been stated by
the Hon. Member for Birmingham. The Hon. Member
had also adverted to the aggressions of Russia upon the coast
of Circassia, and the Hon. Member had quoted an expres-
sion said to have been used by him ( Lord Palmerston)
on a former occasion ; but if the Hon. Member would more
strictly tax his memory he would find that the expression at-
tributed to him was not exactly that which he had used on the
occasion referred to. He (Lord Palmerston) stated on a fernier
occasion that which he would state at present, that the claim
of Russia to the sovereignty of Circassia was not well founded
on the grounds on which Russia stated that she rested that
claim. The Hon. Member had quoted some olvervaion
which he stated him to have made with respect to the Vixen.
Now, on that occasion he expressed no opinion upon that
point whatever. On the contrary, he stated that the matt, r
was then under the con.ideration of the Governments of the
two countries, and that if the result should turn out not to be
satisfactory, he would feel it his duty to state the fact to the House.
That result was explained fully in the papers that had been
laid upon the table of the House, and the explan..tion given
was of such a nature as would not justify them in pursuing
the matter any further. The Honourable Member in the
course of his speech was not content with strangling Ministt r
after Minist-r, but he felt bound to brWs in the cardect of
Lord Durham, and to call in question the manner in which
his Noble Friend had discharged his duties at the Court of
St. Petersburgh. Now, there was no person who could
speak better on that subject than he (Lord Palmers-
ton.) It was with him that his Noble Friend cor.
f@RPondcd d i
men; iris entire residence at the Court uf
ifussia, and, so tar frem the Earl of Durham menifests
jug indifference to the honour of this country, it was imros-
sible for any one to have served his country with more
zeal than he did. He had served his country well, and those
ssrvices had been appreciated, and he had received at the
hands of hie late Mt;jesty a well-merited token of his appro.
batlon of those services. The interests of this country with
respect to Russia could net have been more anxiously taken
care of by the Honourable Member for Birmingham himself
than they had been in the hands of Lord Durham. The Ho-
nourable Member was quite rnlstelten if he thought that this
country was disposed to.send forth all her naval thunders when
d( aline with a weak power like Venseuela, and that they
shrunk bacl, when they had to deal with a great Power like
Russia. The Honourable Member had laid great stress on
the case of the Vixen, but there was also the case of the Lord
iSpenfrr. This vessel, though net p4plorott was
seised by a leuseian pruisereseehe was det al aed spate heere aed
carried out of her course. On a complaint being made to the
Ru.mian Government, and the fact being inquired into, it was
found that the transeetion had occurred ehreugh the mist tke
of the Russian officer in command of the cruiser, and en ape:
logy was made to the Government of this coun!ry, anti coin=
pensation given to the owner of the vessel for the.l.-ss he had
suffered by her detention and lose of time in having been
turned out of her course. The Hon. Member had said a great
deal concerning the treaty of Unkiar Skelcssi ; but that treaty
was now one of the acknowledged treaties of Europe. There
would be no use in England now going ti war to force the
abrogation of that treaty. It existed only for a limited period,
and when it terminated he did not think that the two Powers
would find it Leet's,ary that the engagements it involved should
be renewed. With regard to the speech of the Hon. Member,
he would do him full justice as to the motives of his conduct
with resnect to the principles on which be had argued. He
I differed with him entirely as to the propriety of interference
in the circumstances in which we stood. He thought that the
country was never more secure against foreign enemies than
at p-eseot; and that the honour of the country never stood
higher than it did now. The Hon. Member had stated on
this occasion what he had eften statel before, that the count' y
had given a guarantee of 800,000,0001. of debt 85 a security
to keep pt este with foreign Pi+tions• Put surety the lion.
Member did not think that this was the only country that Lad
financial difficulties to contend with. Did the Honourable
Member mean to say that Russia would find no financial
difficeitlee In the way of an offensive war? Did ho think
that if Russia, which the Ilan, Member had represented ae
the great terror of Europe, attempted an offensive war
against this country, that we should not be in a condition to
resist and repel the attack ?—( Cries of " Hear, hear.") The
Hon. Member was much mistaken if he thought that Russia
could find the means of any offensive war which England
united, in spite of her debt, would not find herself able and
ready to repel ? Now, during the war, which terminated in
1815, what were the sums paid to Russia for her part in the
war ? She received from England subsidies to the amount of
7.000,0001., and from France 4,000,000/. as her share of the
subsidies. This was the means of furnishing the 160,000 men
which he himself (Lord Palmerston) saw assembled on the
plains of Champagne. Russia expended in reviews in the
north and in the south that money which, if properly expended
might give occasion for the alai ms that had been expressed by
ti-e Hon. Meather. But it weuld require more means and
money than Russiacould readily command, before those troops
could be concentrated and marched to any country which
might be destined fur their attack. He repeated that Russia
was by no means in circumstances to justify apprehension. He
would wilt, in conclusion, to quiet the Hun. Member's appre-
hensions. The Hon. Member might be assured that the
Thames was in no danger. Sheerness e ould not be attacked
—the buoys need not be cut--and the Hon. Member might go
to sleep from this well next April, or until this time twelve
reolnh, perfectly secure that his slumbe,s would not be dis-
turbed by the intelligence that a Russian Beat had anchored in
the Pool, and that Russian soldiers were marching through
the streets of London. —( Ministerial cheers.)
Mr. MACLEAN said, in a former debate the Noble Lord
had censured the conduct of Russia with respect to Crcassia.
On that occasion the Noble Lord had stated that though
Russia was not bound in that particular step by the treaty of
London, yet she had entered voluntarily into its ertgagemeets,
and was bound so far as a veluntary declaration. It had been
distinctly understood on the part of Russia, that she would not
look for the acquisition of territory, yet, notwithstanding, she
had obtained an acquidtion of territory of two hundred
miles extent, from the south of Cuban to Fort Nicole. The
lion Member referred to the letter of the Noble Lord, the
Secretary for Foreign Afftirs, addressed to Lord Durham,
in May 1837, and urged that our Government sanctioned
the occupation by Russia of the coast of Circassia. In the
treaty of 1782, a treaty fully acknowledged by Russia, that
(Circassia) was guaranteed as Turhi-ii territory. There
could be now no question that Russia was bona fide
in
possession of the whole of the coast of Circassia. The
Noble Lord must recollect that the Russian Government
claimed a right to establish sanitory regulations along the
coast ; but they went further, for they claimed a right to
search vessels approaching that coast. Whilst Circassia was
in the possession of Turkey this country had the same right to
trade there, by paying the same dues paid at any other Twkisb
port, but upon that coast she was now forbidden to land goods
of any description which were not included in the Russian
Tariff, and the commerce of England was in this respect
greatly impedsd. With respect to the treaty of Unkiar
Skelessi, the fact of a large armament in the Black Sea would
seem to argue sonic ulterior designs on the part of Russia,
and if Russia was secure in her confidence in that treaty, for
what purpose was the keeping up a la.-ge armament in that
mare clausum, unless touard the coast of Circassia ? It was
a subject of great importagnce to our commercial interests. This
trade of Trebizond alone was worth a million a-year to this
country. It was a question of too much importance to be lost
ocmfu,omxtaciorttd,naAnstch(T)eoTsau, l‘htid%eitvobit,r,eoiunsbrought
onnv forward
earLa ienr.
would U n dneort tehreese cir-
ss
his
seeing that the sense of the House was
against his pressing the question to a division, felt it his duty
to yield to it. But he would tell the Government that, if they
did not change their
question would be forceldi"uHYPeontbh,t.:Qi;emeady
nt%ov would
vlu dt
roname.3r,e
tthhweehye
resolu-
tions,
could
i is
!Wittig' avert nor avoiP;
The resointions, whjeh had been put seeiatim, we r 0 then, by
leave, withdrawn.
MUNICH' BOUNDARIES BILL.
Mr. V. SMITE) moved for leave to introduce a 1311 to
settle the boundaries of boroughs in England and \Vales.
With some trifling exception, the Bill was the same as one
which he had introduced last year. It the House gave him
leave to introduce the Bill he would propose that it elleuld
tie
read a first time and printed. There would then be time

during the recess to circulate the Bill amongst the different
that would be alfcct,d by it, aod att-r it had been
considerel he would be happy to receive any sug-
gestions from any fl;m. Member towards the imprcvement of
its provisions. Ti:e only exception male to the Bill of last
tear was placing the situ of Exeter in the same position in
which it was before, and ins'ead of the Parliamentary boun-
dary, restoring to it the old municipal boundary. This he had
consented to do on the representation of both the 71,1,mbers for
Exeter, representing, as they did, yArious interests there. fie
hoped there woull be no objection to alLw him to introduce
the Bill.

Mr. G ASKELL hoped that he would not fix an early day
for the second reading.
Mr. V. SMITII suggestcl that it might probably be fixed
for the middle of Febr,.iary.
Mr. WILLIAMS said if the Bill was tile same as last
year it would most injuriously affect the boraugh of Coventry,
and he would feel bound to give it every opposition in his
Mr. G. F. YOUNG thought the Ilan. Member ought to
state the objects of the BT. There w,re many Members pre-
sent who did not knJw what were tl:e pruvisions of the former

Mr. V. SMITH said if the- lion. Member would call on
him he watill Le happy to give him every information on the
subject.
Mr. BORT II WICK was of opinion that the Bill would re-
quire some alterati-in.
Mr. HINDLE Y was favourable to the Bill, as he thought
it would afford an opportunity of enlarging the small constitu-
encies.

Leave was then given, and the Bill was read a first time.
Mr. DENISTOUN wished to call the attention of the
House to the consideration of a petition from the spirit-dealers
of Glasgow, praying for an alteration of the present licensing
system. It was a very great hardship that persons ahoce qua-
lifications were severely scrutinised when their licenses were
originally granted should be compelled year after year to be at
the same trouble in repeating their applications. No injury
would be done to the revenue by an alteration of the system,
whilst meat inconvenience would be spared to respectable in-
dividuals engaged in the trade. Another objection to the pre-
sent system of licensing was, that it put a power into the hands
of magistrates which might be turned to account in influencing
elections. He would conclude by moving for leave to bring
in a Bill to amend the law of regulating the granting of spirit
licences in Scotland.
Mr. WALL ACE seconded the motion.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER agreed
that this was not a fiscal question, but one relating to the
moral conduct of the parties receiving the licenses. He ad-
mitted the hardship of compelling an annual application, but
at the same time the conduct of persons keeping public-
houses should be more closely 'coked to than that of other-,
and their certificates should be strictly scrutinised before li-
censes were granted in the first instance, bat beyond that there
was no further necessity, unless some complaint were made or
some offence proved. He would not speak to the point of
magisterial influence, but he admitted that even the liability
ought to be removed. Limited as the object of this Bill ap-
peared to he, he had no objection to it.
Mr. CH APM AN stated that there was a precedent for this
measure in Irel :lid, and it was found to work well.

Sir R. INGLIS thought the arguments of the Chancellor
of the Exchequer, if good as ratted to spirit dealers, ought to
extend still further. He was of opinion, however, that if an
inquiry was necessary before the grant cf. the original license
it was equally necessary afterwards.
Mr. F. BARING thought the original certificate quite suf.
ficient, and he was sure the Hon. Baronet, if he knew the
hardshi.s which such frequent applications occasioned, would
be one of the first to do away with them.
Mr. HUME was glad to hear what had fallen from the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, as there was now some prospect
of their legislating on principle. He agreed with the Hon.
Baronet, that the argument would support a further extensiop,
and if the principle were good there was no reason why it
should not take place.
Mr. FORBES would not oppose the introduction of the
Bill, bit would reserve the right of opposing it at a future
stage if he thought fit. He was not a-quainted with Glasgow,
het he was not aware that the power of licensing was used by
the magistrates for political purposes in any county with which
he was acquainted. —( Hear, hear.) It was of the utmost im-
portance that such houses should be kept by persons of unim-
peachable character.
An HON. MEMBER said there was no doubt that parties
seating licences canva-scd the magistrates (as we understood),
and R:omised to support their friends at the elections, Ho
hailed the Chancellor of the Exchequer's admission with re-
spect to this Bill, and hoped it would be extended to England.
Leave INA 3 then given,
Oa the motion of Mr. HAWES, the name of Mr. Acland
was substituted for that of Lord Viscount Howick on the W.
tropolitan Police Committee.
WAKLEY presented A potitiqn from Mr. Thome
Green, and moved for 4 rotwo
of the correspondence between
the etlliticlate And the Lords of the Treasury. He did so as
a matter of form, as the Treasury, also acting on a formal oh,
jeetion, refused to make compensation in mos lilt@ the present
u:Ail the question was first brought before the House.
The C A NcELLO it of the EXCHEQUER seconded
the prop4:,ition, kod explained that the object of the formality
tg obviate fraudulent claims which miglit otherwise be
Blade under peculiar circumstances,
Mr. WARBURTON, a 7, Qhalrman of the Committee to
which the services had been rendered 'whereon the claim was
fotltidod, 041A14 assure the House that it was a bona fide one.
It hwl in the first instance been made for 801., but he had
taxed it down to 251., which he consic'eced to be the proper
amount.
After a few words from Mr. Hume, Sir R. Inglis, and Mr.
F. Baring,
Mr. NV AK LE Y said that, as his object had been eff.,cted in
going through the fore of bringing the matter before the
House, he should aithdraw his motion fur the production of
the correspondence.
BODMIN ELECTION.

Mr, BULLER niaved the adjourned debate on the Bod-
ruin election recognizance. He re-stated the difficulty of Mr,
Harrison's positron, and thought that under all the circum-
stances of that gentleman's CAW the House ought to allow the
substitution of anuthee name as surety for the prosecution of
the petition. If the extension of thirty days, as had been pro-
period, were carried, it would not remove Mr. Harrison's diffi-
culty, as the House would not be sitting at the time. The only
question for the House to consider was, whether the surety
was real or not. He would, therefore, move that Thomas
Merrick Peel, of Aihion-street, Hyde Park, should be substi-
tuted as a surety in the Badmin election petition in place of
Edward Harrison.
Sir T. FRE MANTLE felt himself bound to oppose the
proposition made by the Hon. and Learned Member. He
thought that they ought in all such matters to remember that
they were acting in a judicial capacity, and he would put it to
the good faith of the other party if that would appear to be the
case if the course proposed was to be alopted? The Gentle-
man who was the surety might be prepared to establish his
right, but he thought the petitioner had also a right to know
whether his surety was, not only solvent, but willing. Every
facility ought to be afforded by the exteniion of time to allow
of the surety's return from Paris. He should, therefore, move,
as an amendment, that the time allowed to Mr. Harrison be
enlarged to thirty days.
The SOLICITOR GENERAL quite agreed with the
Hon. Baronet opposite that they should remember they were
acting in a judicial capacity, and that such questions should be
decided without any reference to party feeling. In this case
there was the argument a priori airnittel that the party in
question was ready to enter into the recognizances, but there
was also the argument a posteriori that he did enter into the
rccogniznnces before the magistrates, and did all that the Act
of Parliament required.
Mr. MAC LEAN said that the reeognisances had not been
entered into, but an affidavit only had been made before the
magistrates at Dover, which was a very different thing. If the
gentleman were well enough in the time proposed to come
from Paris he would no doubt also be well enough to go from
Dover to Edinburgh, if the Speaker should be there, so the"
the business might be completed.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the original motion
For the amendment
111‘.jority
DUCHESS OF KENT'S ANNUITY BILL

66
30
-27

On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the E XCHE-
QUER, the Duchess of Iccnt's Annuity Bill was read a se-
cowl time, and ordered to be committed to-morrow (this day.l
Sir T. FREMANTLE moved that the petition of Mr.
Ellis, relating to the Bodmin election recognizance, be printed,
and intima' ed his intention of submitting a motion to the House
on the subject to-morrow (this day), if, upon further inquiry,
he though the case was as good as it then appeared to him.--
Ordered to be printed.
Mr. D. W. HARVEY gave notice that he would to
move, on the question of due provision of the Civil List
being brought forward, that it was the right of Parliament to
reserve to itself the power of future investigation into the reve-
nues of the duchies of Cornwall and Lancaster respectively.
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, aid the
House adjourned at Ten o'Clock,

A melancholy accident occurred towards the close
of last month at the Theatre de la Scala, at Milan, during
the first representation of the ballet of Hector Fieramoxca.
In one of the scenes Hector Fieramosca th'ows himself head-
long from the summit to the foot of the mountain in the
background. A due quantity of mattresses, &c. had been
disposed to receive the actor who played the part ; but, in
taking his leap, he overshot his mark, cleared the mattresses,
and fell head foremost against the box in which the prompter
usually sits. The unfortunate man's brains were literally
(lathed out on the stage. Every assistance was immediately
rendered, but in vain, as the victim had expired on the spot
where he fell. An inquiry having. been il:stituted into the
circumstances of the ense, by order of the authorities, it
appeared in evidence that the actor, who had perished in so
untimely a manner, had frequently expressed his intention of
committing su:cide, and it was generally believed that his death,
in the manner we have described, was the result of premedita-
tion on his part--not of accident, as on a close inspection of
the scene of the catastrophe it was proved to be impos.ible
that any person could unintentionally have cleared the interval
between the top of the theatrical mountain and the prompter's
x- A subserip.ion was opened for the benefit of the widow
ht-t
And children of the deceased.
The late Master of the Rolls made an extraordinary
will—to his eldest son, Sir B. *Mahon, Bart., he left 1,000/.
a year, and a stun of money to be applied in no other way but
by a purchase of a company in the Guards. Aftg disposing
of his other sow, his landed prcverty is to accumulate for
the heir of air Get:esford, who will be married in a few days.—
, Irish. Paper.