The Sun.
London, England, 1839-05-04 00:00:00

NATIONAL PETITION.

Mr. DUNCAN then moved—That it be an instruction
to those Members of Parliament, who have charge of
the National Petition, not to consent to any change in
its statements or wording, with a view to facilitate its
presentation, more .particularly with regard to the words,
" we demand universal," any alteration in which would
be an insult to the people.
Some conversation then ensued as to whether it was
the duty of the Committee, or of the Secretary, to
write to those Members, when
The SECRETARY stated that he would write im
mediately.
Mr. HETHERINGTON said the Convention were not
doing their duty, unless they came to a distinct under-
standing as to what party was to be held responsible for
not having made a communication to these Members.

Dr. FLETCHER would move that Mr. O'Connor be
held responsible. As for himself he would never share
responsibility without power.
Mr. DUNCAN then withdrew his motion.
Mr. MARsDEN then moved that the Members of Par-
liament who present the petition be desired to ask leave
to bring in a Bill embodying the provisions •of the Peo-
ple's Charter within six days after the presentation of
the petition. He said he had brought forward this mo-
tion in consequence of the course pursued by Messrs.
Attwood and Fielden, who had asked for concessions
which the Convention could not grant. Some persons
were apprehensive that the Bill would not be presented
at all, and when Members acted in the manner in which
these Members had done, all confidence in Members of
the House of Commons was at an end, when those gen-
tlemen who had come forward so prominently could act
kin the way they bad done.
Mr. SKEVINGTON seconded the motion. He was
anxious to know if a Bill founded on the People's Char-
ter would be brought forward or not.
Mr. SANKEY would move the previous question by
way of amendment. These gentlemen had expressed
their willingness to present the petition, Mr. Attwood
reserving to himself the right of expressing his opinion
if a certain resolution were not agreed to. There could
be no objection to that. Mr. Attwood was responsible
for the movement. If he had acted wisely he would
have put himself in communication with the members of
the Convention, and then he would have obtained in-
finite power of restraining violent language. Messrs.
Attwood and Fielden, as their friends certainly had a
right to exercise a distretion as to the ulterior measures
they would adopt in the House. He thought the mat-
ter ought to be left in their hands, and that they should
not be niisstrusted.

Mr. WHITTLE seconded Mr. Sankey's amendment.
Mr. Attwood had preserved good faith with them, and
they had no right to treat men of upright character like
Mr. Attwood, as if it were requisite to suspect them.
He would say with regard to the conduct of public
men, test them, and if they were found wanting remove
them ; but while they possessed their confidence they
ought to be treated with proper respect.
Mr. CARPENTER Only rose to say a word on the impos-
sibility of presenting the petition on Monday. When he
made this statement as a iratter of fact on a former occa-
sion he was met with something like denunciation, and
was told that he was throwing a wet blanket on the ques-
tion.—( Hear, hear, from Mr. Miles.) He knew then that,
unless the House of Commons rescinded its resolutions, it
cculd not be presented on that day ; and for saying so he
was blamed by persons, for what reasons he could not
know-7( Hear, hear. )
_

Mr. LOVETT—Great blame attached to either Messrs.
Feilden or Attwood of to the Committee for this delay.—
( Hear, hear.) He thought Mr. Marsden was right
in bringing forward this resolution, and he wished
that Mr. Carpenter would explain where the blame
attached.—(Cries of " Hear.") The country expected
that that petition should be presented on that day, and
now, at the eleventh hour, it is stated it must be post-
poned. He would be glad to hear any explanation on the
subject.—( Hear and cheers.)
Mr. CARPENTER explained, that the state of busi-
ness in the House of Commons, as it was stated by the
Morning Papers esterday, with regard to Mr. Sergeant
Talfourd's Bill, was such that the Order Book was ful!
for many days to come.
Mr. CARDO—It would destroy the movement if they
did not take means to bring on an early discussion on
their question. He was not much conversant
with these matters, but he thought that the debate
might be brought on on the introduction of a money vote.
—( Hear.) It was too bad that the country should, at the
end of three months, be told that there was a necessity for
this postponement.—( Hear.)
Dr. NI DOUALL thought that they should present the pe-
tition to the Members, and leave it to them. The people
outside would not be longer trifled with.—(Hear.) And
if any longer delay was intended, the country would ill
brook it. The Convention had already sunk in the opinion
of the country, and this postponement would still lessen
them in the estimation or the people at large.---( Hear.)
Dr. FLETCHER excused 'himself from any responsibility

held by the Committee on the petition, as he was absent from
town on the hu.iness of the Convention in Birmingham
(luring the time the latter part, of the arrangements were
made by them. —( Hear, hear.)
Mr. MILLS defended the conduct of the Committee, I
dial Mr. COLLINS.
Mr. Ricitardn—He, as an individual member of the
Getvtittit, hteteht th.tt thy could not withdraw the
peritton f,cnn th.• had; of M.--rs Atta,aai and rei len.
The people were those who had to deal with them; they
in:rusteL to those gentlemen their claims, and it was for
them to decide what should be done. If thy refused to
prevent it, notwithstanding their promises to the contrary,
a thing he (Mr. R ) was confinent they would not do—the
people alone were capable of deciding on such conduct. •
Mr. JAMES TAYLOR thought that the Petition Com-
mittee ,• Deputation It,al to.g-lecte,i their duties;
he niust stiv, that h. ,at the San.. t imr, excul, aced sari.
Coll aod Mills front any hi i.e --( Hear, hear. )
He
thought it Wma too bad that at the cod of three months the
petition wa, in no sate et forwardness
Mr. COLLINS rose to 'order.—( Order, order. )—lt was
too bad that these imputations should tie cast on Mem-
bers. —(Chair, chair.)
Mr. RicnaansoN thought they ought to be watching
over the petition instead of intertering with elections.
The whole of their time should be devoted to this busi^
ncss, and no matter wisat the country would say
of those who were to present it ; they would give them
(he Convention) etedit for doing their duty. If they
did not act promptly on this occasion, the country he w 3.
afraid would look on their conduct with eyes of great ills'
trust.—( He-.r.
Mr. BURNS said they had nothing m•ye with ll,'
p titi•ffl oas y. -tcrday resoi‘ed that tit, Coo, hate
%yhteh had ellar,,y- of it ~!I.nild present it lo tn,..M:ntihers
on the 61-1 of May. What could lie desired nitre than
this. He thought it wai unfair that they should renew
d:t,eussiou oft the subj ct. from time to tine
ail' out
has 1:1,4 on, grounds to support imputations thrown on the
,

Committee.
Mr. PITKEITHLEY defended the Petition Cominitue•
There a s vidence dsily received from he country ;11,,t the
pp, p'e hot t xp•‘et lite petitimishothd bepre,cived on the
64i May NI parts of the countr) would not seed in
their p titions until Monday.—( Hear, hear.) He thought
that Mr Richardson was more to blame in delaying these
.
petitions in his own hands to this period than were the
memb .rs of the Committee on whom his rem irks reflected
so much inattention to their duties.—( Hear.)
Mr. O'BRIEN—They had lost sight of the subject alto-
gether They were debating the question of the presen
tation of the petition a hen the real subject before the
chair w:is, that the Bill or the Charter should be brought
in on six days after that presentation. Now he took
It
that the petition was not definitively settled to be presented
on the Gth of May; it was sometime about that perioo
certainly; but still when the Committee pledged themselves
that.the petition would be in the hands of the 'Members on
the 6th, he thought it would not be prudent to confine
them to one day.—( Hear, hear.) He would advise NU'
Marsden to either withdraw his resolution or suffer an
addition, which would not confine the introduction of the
Charter to within six days from the 6th of May.
Mr. MARSDEN replied. After giving leave to Mr. O'Brifell
to make the necessary changes according to his (NU'
O'Brien's) views, it was as follows :—" That as the Pc;
tition is to be placed in the hands of Messrs. Fielden an
"
Attwood on Monday, the 6th inst., those gentlemen era
requested to name the earliest day possible, on which they
will more for leave to bring in a Bill embodying the Prin-
ciples of the People's Charter, and that those gentle bat
are further requested to pledge themselves absolutely thaa
no further postponement or delay shall take place beyon,
the day specifi.d, in order to prevent disappointment to the
people."
Mr. SANKEY withdrawing his resolution of the preVintli
question,
The CHAIRMAN put the resolution as it then stood, yell
which it was passed unanimously.
DISAGREEMENT BETWEEN THE MEMBERS.
Mr. COLLINS said as no business was at present be
ftr.:
the Chair he would take the liberty of resigning.front
duties as a member of the Petition Committee, in Oriel;
quence of the repeated insults that he had received at
hands ov some of the Members lately.--( Hear, hear.)
of
Mr. HErHERINOTON would request of Mr. Collins 0,
to take any notice of what was said to him. His service,i
were of that kind which gained for him the applause of all
parties.
Mr. O'BRIEN hoped that Mr. Collins would not persel"o
in his determination of giving up his valuable services •
the Petition Committee.
Mr. Skevingtou, the Chairman, Mr. Smart, and (.14j.
Donaldson, also expressed their conviction that Mr. L'.°;
lins's services demand the best thanks of the Conventl:4
and the country, for the praiseworthy manner which be
acted on the Petition Committee. the
Mr. COLLINS, in a few words, pledged himself that
petition would be ready to be presented on Moods)? er
( Hear, bear, and cheers.) He would say that the ma,nn ,
in which he was treated, not only on this day but yesterl
had made such an impression on him, that he would Per
vere in hia
few o's resnation.
Afterremarks from the CHAIRMAN the subject
dropped.
954
The SECRETARY read a letter from Tiverton, with;o.
signatures and one pound rent, and desiring that Mils--
aries sliculd be sent among them. e in.
,h Mr. O'BRIEN handed in signatures from 1,308 01 `—,,oe
habitants of Portsea,.and also handed in from that plane",
pound rent.

ULTERIOR MEASURES. .
70,. Pee"
Dr. FLETCHER, in reply to a qu,stion put by .flort,
gan, said the Committee were in a forward state to r'-ere
but that they would not do so for some days. They ',be
of opinion that they should not report until eft!r time
presentation of the petition, and until it would be the The
for acting upon the results of the fate of that petition•ibility
duties were so important, and they felt their respeesubject
so great, that it would be unwise not to give the
5
the most mature consideration.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. CARDO handed in ten shillings rent, and 1,250 Sit
natures, from Newton in Devonshire.
After which the thanks of the meeting were given to gr'
Bussey, upon which the meeting dissolved.

The following is the letter of Mr. Attwood to the C°ll.
vention, read in yesterday's debate:—
TO THE GENERAL CONVENTION OF TO

INDUSTRIOUS CLASSES- a , Ang.
St. George's Terrace, May " ;-- bir-
GENTLEMEN,—In reply to your application , I ~....
Fielden and myself to present the National Petition, nu;
to say, that, if you entrust it to our care, I shall cert:o,
present it, and support its objects by every meal Is and
power. It was drawn up by my friend Mr. Doug ariessif
entirely approved by me. Your Convention was etnioar
designed by me, in the Rules of the Birmingllaza ow,
dour
ten years ago; and it was directed to assemble in bello
at my express instance, by the great meeting at H° eel
Head on the 6th of August last. I have therefore
sorra
inducement, as a patriot, and as a man, to take our
and sincere interest in the National Petition and Illbiell
Convention, and in the great and righteous objects w
you are assembled to support. to it°
But, Gentlemen, I think it my duty to retool.- 01
that much imprudent language has been attributed t°,,lftbe
members of your Convention, in different parts !bete
country, and that many errors and misrepresentation:d in'
gone abroad in the public mind respecting the views so bY
tentions of your Convention, and respecting the nienaf- oPi:
which it is proposed to accomplish them ; and I am -I. greet
nion that it is highly important to the success of euublicva
cause to have such errors and misrepresentations Ploreted
corrected and contradicted. At present they have al sad
and alienated the middle classes, without whose aid cod
friendly co-operation there is no hope for the worhilel:: air,
they have also tended to alarm and alienate the j'eut" 00'
tressed, and in many instances the better dispose
u
among the workmen themselves. ea"be
si
It would be most satisfactory to me, before I Pre,sc, Ps I
petition, if your Convention should think right Ihiellif
some resolutions, setting at rest the calumnies to
."et, 't
allude, and quieting the public mind upon the sub,J,eool9
you should not be disposed to do so, and should sti"sotise
the petition to my care, I shall find it my duty, on repo or
it, to guard my own character, and the great inter' , 0
trusted to me, in such way as I may deem necessel; seta
In order to prevent misunderstanding, I cycle/ ,bets.se
resolutions, the words, or the spirit of which, ,coPtof
wish to have adopted by your Convention. They by I
only three objects :—first, a disclaimer of all theoci legio
violence and physical force in obtaining the jest %1 ofiso
objects of the National Petition; second, a deal-100%0
wish to promote discord, or separation of interest:tie C' to
masters and men, or between the lower and mid 0110 ja
of the community ; and third, a dental of all Wool,
of
enctoach upon the just rights and privileges
Of °tereStl
seeking to obtain the just rights, liberties, and -n
the people. 11185°
,-,N 11 „i'tlt
PEACE, LAW, ORDER LOYALTY, and UNION Bir.--,.101
were the sacred banners under which the men effbe Ile°l,o
ham led their countrymen to victory in carrying `„,,tiooster
Bill. Under these sacred banners your Ceav-chgre,e9e
now the opportunity of leading the people to la °fest to o'4;
and more glorious victory. If the people hold ',:
sireng'..
banners, as I have often said, they possess a giant t ea es e•
but if they once abandon them, they become nu Gen"
Pant in a giant's hand —I have the honour to he,
men, your faithful, humble servant, 170°V.
THOMAS AT12..._:0„,,,/11
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MARRIED. , the Ref.. of
maOsnwt
Volley, I e2yd inst.,
lec
, to Ellen, Y°"" near 0
Fenton, pu-iiter
Hart-street, Bloomsbury-square, .
t,
Rector
rt NoVf a /pc ootoi Church,
ead 13joaht111;
_...,,e5t
„arh.
youNc..,,,
.-led by MURDO Straan.
of the Rev. W. J. Emmett, of Cranhill House, ne of
London : Printed and Pabst _ _ ~,
The Sun Office. No. t ..1:4..n. _
No. 112, Strand, at Th
the county- of Aliddlesex.—Saturday,May, 4, it..