The Sun.
London, England, 1830-11-06 00:00:00

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iiii;tivir",-c4l:ol4ifibe Hon. Member meant to say that
rd4ttttirnteoteetbituld be monopolized by men of large
.:fortitties%llofitnpfissible that persons holding such offices
attil-.ll;ixvitikeitate•in the House, should not receive money
fur their pubtic services. It might be that .unfounded
assertions' from the confidence with which they were
put forward, might find' credit•with some new Mem-
hero ; but if these gentlemen had been, like him,
five-and-twenty years in the House they would know that
concession sail reduction with respect to places of this
description had been always going on—that there was not
one of them which did not require much labour and anxi-
ous thought. and that they certainly were not overpaid ;
at least he was not aware they were overpifid.. If they
were so, let the Hon, Member show that they were, and
how they were, overpaid. Let him point out the saving
which cou'd be Awed, and he (Mr. Baring) thought
that the experience of his conduct would prove that he
would not hesitate to concur in a proper or advisable re-
duction.—(Cheers.)—But he would say that, in the pre-
sent condition of the country, exaggerated statements and
inflammatory observations addressed to the lower elasaes,
- were calculated to provoke a state of things which 'would
press most grievously upon them and the country at
large. Now, as he was on the subject of such statements
he would remark, that he lately saw in a placard, set
forth in a window, 'that the Earl of Eldon had pensions
and allowaners to the amount of 30,0001. a-year.
Mr. HUME (in an angry tone) denied that he was the
- author of the placard,' or that he had ever made such an
assertion.--.(The Hon. Member • was stopped by cries of
tt order.')
Mr. BARING said the lion. Member did him injustice
in thinking be was always to be speaking about him when
he was alluding to exaggerated statements and inflamma-
tory language;---(Cheers and laughter.)---But since the
Hon. Member put it to him so very urgently, he would
take leave to observe, that of whatever character might
have been the statements he made, he never came forward
to remove exaggeration, which was as much the duty of a
public man,. especially in such times, to, to expose abuses;
(Cheers.)---But to proceed.-theta was in the card in the
window a long list of other pensions given to other per-
sons, and equally well-rounded with that attributed to Lord
Elden. It was well knoWn his Lordship received his re-
tired pension, as a Lord Chancellor, of 4,0001. loam.
He was no admirer, and never had been en admirer, of
Lord Eldon's politiceLcharacter, but his private character
it was impossible not to respect • and he was sure no one
would say that a man who had devoted so lung a period of
his life to the arduous duties 'of his office, was overpaid
with such a retired pets.ion.--( Hear. )---But if, perchance,
the Hon. Member should think it excessive, let it he
brought before the House. It really was, however, im-
possible to see such exaggeration without a strong feeling
of the danger it cannot fail to produce. The House of
Commons was acting in the face of the country. It
was good for nothing but as representing the feeling of
the sound and sensible part of the community, which,
thank God, by the increased diffusion of education, formed
the great body of the people, and was able to judge ha
-
nutty and truly of the measures brought forward in the
House.—(Cheers ).--From this portion of the people it
was impossible to conceal anything ; it was net desirable
to conceal anything from them ; but it was the duty of
every man who had the interest of his country at heart,
to disavow and expose exaggeration, and condemn the use
of inflammatory langusge.—joud cheers.) lie was led
to make these observations from his knowledge of the great
credulity which prevailed as well in a certain portion of the
mercantile close, as in other classes of the community, and
apprehension of the mischief that might be oecasioned.
He disapproved of the question which had been put to.
Government respecting the repeal or reduction of tax-
ation. He considered the proper course to pursue
would be first to go into, into the Committee, and see if
the Right floneurable Gentleman opposite proposed any
extravagant grant. If he did, then oppose him. Let
them proceed uteri') the principles of an enlightened eco-
nomy—( Neer, bear !)---net upon those of a low sordid ton .
nonay..--(Cheers,)—Let them look fairly and honestly to
every thing; that was brought forward. Having first
granted the supplies to the Crown, and provided for the
several branches of the public service, let them see what
- the revenue of the country was, and what saving could be
effected. It was ridiculous to talk of repeating taxes
until they ascertained what reduction could he effected in
their supply to the Crown, with a due regard to the dig•
nit), and wants of the Sovereign. This done,- and the ne,
(*silkiest of the public wriest . being provided for, they
would then be enabled ,:to decide upon what reduction
could he, tkifsculd. There was one other topic to which he
wished to advert, knowing the unpopularity which at-
tached itself to any roan who said theriewa* nut tiny great
distress In the country. The fact was, the country always
must be, from its position, and from the nature of its popu-
lation, to a certain degree, in a state of distreas. At pre-
bent, therefore, there was, as at all other times, distress;
but it was not ,anything to lie compared to that which ex-
isted any year since the peace. It was a gross exaggera-
tion to describe the people of England as a starving people.
cheers.)-e-Tha country was ping on in a reit-
-senable quiet way : excitement, as he said before, on the
one side, and appreheopion on the other, had, it was true,
produced a temporary exacerbation ; but the course which,
exaggerated statements would probably lead the lower
orders to, would have the effect riot of alleviating, but
of increasing the evils under whirs!) they suffered.
Lord HOWICK defended the Member for Middlesex's
conduct, and said there was more danger from suppressing
the notice of abuses than from any language which could
be used. He contended that the more exaggerated were
• the statements in circulation abroad, the greater reason
was there for having the truth told within the doom of
flint House. lie complained of the Ihm. Member for
Callington for having read an unnecemary lecture to the
Hon. Member for Middlesex► and stated that there was
nobody, in his opinion, opposed to l'arlimentary. Reform
except those who had an interest in maintaining abuses.
Sir R. PEEL defended himself l'imn having dealt
harshly with the Hon. Member for Middlesex. He had
not spoken of hint as a firebrarid. He had declared, and
he repeated it, that to sly the people of England were in
a state of starvation, was a gross exaggeration ; but did
be not say it was unintentional 7-411 ear, brai.).—He
mole an unfortunate blunder the. other night : but this
evening he bad laid a particular capitols on " uninten •
atrial." When he submitted that the laugosgtt used by
eke Rem Gentleman was calculated to increant the in-
flammation already existing, ha referred to express words ;
but he acquitted bim of any bad intentions, with the same
candour lw acquitted the Duke of Wellington. The ex-
premion, however, about the condition of the people was
on exaggeration ; and when the Hon. bletober expressed
his hope that the Government would be disidactii, was it
fit or proper, or becoming language to send forth to an
excited and easily stimulated people, that he trusted a day
of vengeance would come.—(Loud Agent )
COLONIES,

Mr. LABOUCHEITEa:ked if the report frotn the
Commissioners to inquire into the expenditure of the Co-
lonies had been made out.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied
that the report was not ready; but that considerable pro.
peso bed been made in it.
SUPPLY.

(in the motion of the CHASCILLOIL of the Exciox4tma j
the Speaker lett the Chair.
Sir A. ORAN? then trick the Chair.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved
that a S4pply be wanted to his Majesty,
Mr. HUME slid that if be did not oppose Mr. Speaker's
leaving the Chairs it was not that he was satisfied by what
the Melt Hon. Gentleman had said about Belgium. He
contended ho had great reason to complain. lii. the
Right Hon, Clentleman forgotten the lecture which was
reed to him the other night by the lion. Member for York-
shire, about going to sleep during a speech—(Laughter)—
and then coming to answer it ttventy-four houre after.
Why there might be a delay of any length—of a week, or
& month.. (Laughter.) He thought it was very hard,
that if ho chanced to make use of the word .vengrance at
t
two o'clock be the mornings that it should he brought up
ageinat him two days afttr—(Laughter)—espordally when
he retracted inituediately.--(Cries of, " No, no.") At
least he explained that he only meant he wished the Ali-
Meter* should be displaced, Streit conduct could only be
used by the7Right, nom tientlentan in the absence of ar-
gument lie called an die Hon. Member tar Callington
to chew why he (Mr. IL) ttrsa s dangerous man. Ile
melted him what were the exaggerated and intiammitory
espiessiont ha hid used -T lie had never uttered 'such
exaggerations lc that House ;le the Hon. Mentiag Or Cal-
lingtons....(Laughtee,)-..-It ill became hint (Mr, 13.) to
join the Government in damaging his (Mr. IL's) wets.,
taunts. He denied allegations altogether of not having
t-spisimel away any exaggerations into which he might
Lowe LAW:. It, was unfriendly in the Ilan. Qesalesna&—
in a 'man enjoying his great vitaiitiptenee,,-Whigli MX far
more than irsc(ltlr. H.) thought tie deserved for anything
he hail tiona.....to.etuleavour to damage his statements. Ile
eapreitate4 all attempt* to hold him up as a man who was
urging Ake prihiia ter their snub the ihmoutattla Oa.
11iaim rtilihtil stint theta tvaa sityrirra Eiiery man spoke
s,„ ihm. Member did not
free it with his, great rehti.rult ;alai his money right awl
left,, But sollsiss uum,ssotliority he could too, that
prevailed in the ogricolturei.- the manimsetoSissg, smut all
the other great interests. Ile hail a right to 00444, t 4
having his statements damageth—(tatughter.).—Wo4, or

phrases used in a former debate should not be again
brought forward a Member should only allude to the tone
of a speech which had been delivered ; therefore, the
Right Hon. Gentleman was irregular; and if his Hon.
Friend did not stand up and tell the exaggerated ex-
pressions he had used- that evening, he too would be irregular.
His Hon. Friend, too, the Worthy Alderman, got a bee in :his
bonnet the other night and attacked him—(Loud-laughter, and
cries of Question.") He took that opportunity Of stating, that
ifarsybody cried " question" during the Session while he was
speaking, he would that instant -move an adjournment, and put
a stop to all business. It was very indecent—he bad his ,eye on
them.—(Laughter,) He saw the cry come from a-corner in
which there was a Secretary to the Treasury and-a Lord of the
Admiralty. " Sir (said he to the Speaker), I wilibring them up
on a complaint before you,—(Great laughter.) if they wish to
stay they must behave themselves. They may go away if they
like, but make their absence known to the Country,—
(Laugh ter.) Now I hope you'll take It well" (addressing the Hon.
alembers teem whom he supposed the cry proceeded.)—(Loud
laughter.) He knew the Bight Hon. Secretary was impatient ;
but he had borne his lash with great patience.—(Laughter.)
lie did hold up both his hands and eyes, when the Honourable
Member for Callington declared his Ignorance of the power of
money, or :place, sinecures, or taxes in that House. Let the !
lion. Member go to the back of the Treasury benches, and let
them nor not have him in their quarters. He did not like snakes
in the grassif the Hon. Member was to attack them in theflank,
let him not be in their camp. He denied having alluded to Officers
on the Treasury bench. lie knew that to the Right Hon.
Baronet the emoluments of obese were nothing—it was the place,
the power; the patronage he desired. He thought nothing week;
do with Government except stopping the supplies until they de-
clared their intentions. The Ministry were ready enough to
snake up their minds against the people—let them see if they
tumid not force them to reduction.
Mr. BARING shortly replied, stating that he considered what
the Hon. Gentleman had said about the House of Commons was
egress exaggeration, and that the general tenour of his speech
was inflammatory in the extreme.
Mr. TENNYSON declared that the Hon. Member for Mid.
(nosey had said nothing lie would bertfraid to any himself. If it
was said that there was to be any, abatement of the public extant-
diture, and the Minister was asked in what manner or on what
articles that abatement was to be offbeted, he ought to answer,
not as the Right lion. Gentlemen had 'done to-night, but by
telling the House whether such was the intention of Govern.
merit; and by stating, at the same time, that the articles on
which the reduction was to take place could only be conveniently
enumerated in the budget of the Chancellor at the Exchequer.
If the House found, as he believed they would, 'het so many
hundred thousands would not be requires' for a particular service
as were required last year, they must be certain that taxes' could
he remitted in some quarter; and there could be no objection to
ask in what quarter; if any, the 'Government intended to
remit them:
Celossel SIPTHORP thought it would be more gratyfying to
the country, and more creditable to Ministers, If they came down
to that House and distinctly pledged themselves that some re-
duction should take place. The people of England were willing
enough to pay supplies that they thought to be at all necessary ;
but When they found that their money was demanded for the sup-
port of placemen and pensioners, or for adding fresh wings to
Windsor Castle, they would feel reluctant to furnish supplies for
such purposes.—(Hear hear, hear.) He said, therefore, that it
would be more gratifying if the Ministers came down prepared
with some cataplasm—(A laugh)—or some condoling draught for
the agonies °realm' of this impoverished. people. Ile would sup-
port the people, not In their riotous conduct—for that he should
' be the first to oppose and put down—but in their constitutional
and legal mode of demanding a reduction of their burdens ; and,
in his opinion, the Ministry not only ought, but would find they
must do something more than they had hitherto done for the re-
lief of the people.—(Hear, hear.)
The resolution was agreed to, and the House resumed.
ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE IN IRELAND. •
Mr. DOHERTY moved for leave to bring in ABM for the more
effivtual Administration of Justice in Ireland.
Mr. O'CONNELL should not oppose the motion. Asa Bill
of this kind had been passed for England, he thought it might be
beneficial to have something of the kind for Ireland. bomecon.
venience would arise from regulating Terms there as here; but
he trusted that nothing which this Bill could effect would be so
far mistaken in Ireland, as to be thoughta reform of the law. In
consequence of the evils of the present system of lawodne-tenths
of the peep e were refused the means of justice. Now he was
upon this subject, he would say that no men ought to be ap-
pointed as Judges who had not been much employed as Advocates.
No man who was not well acquainted with the technicalities of
the law could, nosier the present system of law, make a good
Judge ; yet he was sorry to say, that the system of appointing
J .fudges in Ireland was regulated by political merits, not by
ireohie, knowledge and skill ; and those gentlemen—he would
not call them adventurers—who best served the Government in
that House were preferred to the situation of Judges. He asked
whether that was not the case with the last judicial appointment
in Ireland 7 On that occasion slid the Ministers go and look out
for men like Pennefather and Holmes—men who were entrusted
by the public with business as sulvocates, and were therelbre fit
to be entrusted with it as Judges Y No such Utley but they ap-
pointed a gentleman whose services to the M 1,4041111 that HOMO
seemed to have been his chief title to the distinction—who did
not reside often in Ireland, and who could tint, therefore, be in-
t hrustely acquainted with the business of the Court. He admitted
that the gentleman he referred to was a man of talent, but talent
was not sufficient ; technical knowledge was required,, and no
man who absented, himself from the Courts could acquire that
technical knowledge which, in the present state of the law, was
absolutely necessary. The fact he had mentioned showed the ne-
cessity of a separate Parhament in Ireland, fur appointments of
the kind he had mentioned were never made here, because this
Parliament kept Such a strict watch over the Ministers that they
dared not snake mere Judges who had not betbre attained a high
degree of, profession' reputation. The appointments of the
Judges were matters of the highesit importance, for they made
more taw than even that House itself, lie trusted that in t'uture
he should never see judicial 'amid laments made in Ireland, ex.
ceps from among men of practical experience. He lonsed besides
that no political ;nations would ever be appointed to judicial
sitnalions, and the feeling that they were unlit 'for web offices
would snake hits decline the Bench oven if it should be ()tinned
to him (which was not at all likely) by the Government,—Lenve
was then given

POOR SETTLEMENT.
Mr. WAVLAND moved for leave to bring in a Bill to regu.
late Parish Settlements, anti stated that the law of settlement was
at present in a very uncertain state. The occupation of a tene-
ment of MI. a year had Ibrinerly been held to confer a settle.
went, but a case In the King's Bench had recently decided, that
although the person had entered on the occupation cf such a
tenement he could gain resettlement under it, unless he con.
Witted in it for the full period of omi year.
Leave was given, and the Hon. Member afterwards brought in
the BBL

KING'S PRINTER.
Mr. NOTE should not, in moving for the papers which he
tow intended to ask for, have entered into what he was obliged
a) do, had it not been that evening doubted in that Housethat
any influence was exercised on any Member or that any Mem-
ber ever voted on any other than on public grounds. He re-
gretted that the Hon. Member for Callinhton was not present,
for he would then hear one Met which was worth 50 arguments,
and which proved distinctly that the Ministers were not actuated
by any desire to promote the public good. Ile (Mr. Hume) now
complained of the conduct of Ministers, who had not followed
up the pledges they had given to the public. They bed pledged
themselves to practise economy in every, department of the
State would lle show how they had acted with regard to one
department. The patent of King's Printer he understood had
lately been renewed, though a Committee some years ago had
recommended that it should be suffered to expire. Reconsidered
the principle of patent offices had been long settled. These pa-
tents imposed a tart on the public which the King had no right
to receive witisout the consent of Parliament ; yet moneys were
taken under these patents in the shape of fees and dues, which
he was sure the house would never sanction. When he brought
forward the question as to the light.houses, he should treat at
large the great question of patents. In the year 1714), Mr. Pitt
granted a pate»t to John Reeves, Robert George Eyre, and An-
drew Strachan, appointing them the Kin g% Printers for the pe.
riod of thirty years. The chief object of the patent was to secure
to John Reeves a sinecure of 1,50 v/. a year. Mr. Pitt knew
at the time that the profit was estimated at ti,oool. a year, and
he wished Joint Reeves to be secured in the half of that sum for

his Ilk )0 patent comprehended not only Bibles and Prayer.
hooks but Acts of Parliament, and many other things relating to
that and the other House. • In 1810 a committee, of which the

lion. Member for Dorsetthire WAS Chairman, sat to inquire into
this patent, anti they then made a report winch was intended to
ho a gable t4l !butte Governments. tie complained that thepo.
vernments had not acted upon the recommendation of the an.
mittee. lie had told them that John Beeves had been secured
in the rotieakion of half the profits of the patent, and in the
year 18IY7 that perton filed 4 IMI in Chancery, calling on the
otherr'fbr a discovery of the profits, In that 13111 he alleged that
the Income amounted to Ofi„disel. and the net profits were 113,(X)iV.
a year. The 11111 of course attracted a great deal of the attentien
among the public. (if course the matters to be disclosed were
ILIA, that it win desirable to prevent the dischwure—the affair
WAS settled, AO the Bill was withdrawn. . In the year 1810, the
Don. Member for Cert.! Castle submitted to the Howe a propo.
sition fur a Committee of inquiry into that and other depart-
ments. That Committee stated A great deal of matter which
was nest useful Information, and. which lie recomtnentled to the
notice of the young Members of the House. 'I he committee at
pop leafed, among other things, that a saying of 40 par cent.
might he effielted, tr the printing then performed under that pa-
tent were perfermed in another way. Ile had proof that the
saving might be mph greaterifor he could show that that which
WAS now printed for still, might be printed for three farthings,
He contended that that Wag it great loss to the country. Besides,
we had u Stationery Office, which did the same business at a
Much less cost.. The Cointnittee condemned the principle of all
patent offices, as Involving all the evils of commend/11 monopoly.
Ms evil 4 they had carefully poilitcd out and it became the duty
at the Voyerdmplitto attend to them. Yet be understood that
the patent toe th e Kingf; printer bad been renewed, and renewed
as 110 should conteinl, in the face of the Committee and of their
report. fie held that the principle of monopoly was an evil, and
that the Govermuent of the 'Duke of 'Wellington, which had
been praised by the lumber for Cal Wigton for its readiness to eftbct
reduction, did not deserve that praise. Ile wished the lion.
Member wait preaent no*, for ho would then say how be inter,.
preted one orthgt 'Hon. Member's expressions, The lion. Mein.
her had said that the /hike had efreeted as great reductions as
were capable of being elkted without injury to the public
service—that if greater retiftetions were made, the public, aer.
vim could not goon. By that expression ho understood that if
reduction were male the Minister could not Ctintinue his ma-
jority in that Ilotise--(bear, bear.)—tte asserted that the only
reduction made by the Duke was the petty reduction of a lew-
yet'. assistant in the Excise, which had gone the round of all
the patorgt 44, proofs of the Duke's intention to economise. ln
under to obtaiii cofrcet information, he should require intermit.
Linn in detail of the ex pees.ea pal profits of the eatablishment.—
ahe nom Member here read fq p9tire,ct front the charges made
m ono year, one
of the ttem4 or which, 9.loyfrs in a general
fast, 0911.iu paeited considerable langliter.),..+He did oa iduject
to the attionnt of )oney so mach tut to the principle, and he was
mallow by peel *he earied his a : sordid (pylon's,: lie ile,
!loved that one o the par of the compact was, the King's
Printer should F t In Pattiarne, Ilt il vote for the Ministers:—
(No, n0.).-It might not lie in the irm , MI6 he had little doubt
that such wits the understandifig2 stir be eilluft on any Mernber
to say whether be had ever seen rhe Bail iktember vote against
the Miniaters. Ile did not think the lion,. Mentlinf had attY
!eget 114 to sit in the (louse. At any ride be, otewted to dill
Don. embor sitting in the Haase ; for, by the introduction of
beef, 11, embers, the publie motley WAS lavishly disposed ref and
the burdens of the etarpte were inereased,—(l tear, 1 learOeett was
OR ipfintince of such timuigt op the public measures of the Cu..o
try that he depreeateil. Et WAS by s!tpri unhallowed and illegal
iniiiienee that the Ninidiglia Otrevelnitice Welt Supported. No
man could guy that thp yotea of that Ilopie)vero pot influenced
with a view. fa lirolit and 011104/Pfnt,-(ifeart hear.)—pe re-
peated that the btationery Ulnae, winch was tit ported at an ex..
pence ten times greater than any °Mae in thel4l was
of doing much more business than WAS now traintauterl'fitere. n
wt. ooipion the King's Printer, appointed by ratont, was Worse
than At ..entractor, itir he was a contractor without a competitor.
After what 4 hid stated, was there any man who would say
that the GoVerimp44
of the Duke of Wellington deserved the
confidence id. the rtoaidrar Y Would the country Function such
conduct Y He protested aiaintst ibis whole of the pot patent,
and against the continuance of it ; 4arl if It bad been renewed,
he thought that the House ought to bring (hie well who reilewed
it, to their her, 'Me House would do so if it didlfs duty ; owlf
it tilt zo wi.: should have nothing hitt an irresponsitde Ali;
nistry. ‘'.. ;' 1; respect to the lion. Member who was now con-
nected with the ittifq of the King's Printer, fie would not say
that that I len, Member bad always voted for the Government,
in CUMeiIIIVACA Or that appointment, As be WAS not then present
in die Douse—Clicar, bear, hear, front Mr. Swittiswode.)--Ilut
be would *ay that he never`knit*/ ttie instance in which that
Memorable ,Mittnher had voted against gie p ovortopeot„
"fie Brat return Tor whit:h lie should move would he for twines or
,ebstracts of the:4count. or Messrs. Reeves and Strachan,- King's
iPrinters, for goods tleiivertst and work performed duringthe lhat
toy years. The object he had in view was, to ascertain the es.
;naive of 4cto of Parliament* sent to Jgstive*, bleilibtretei, itze.,

for which no less than 16,000 i. were charged in one year. He
should move, therefore, for an account of the number of Acts of
Parliament supplied by the King's Printer to the Houses of Par.
liament, Offices of State, Public Libraries, Courts of Justice,
Sheriflk, Magistrates, and acting Justices of the Peace in the
Kingdom, with a statement of the charge, at so much.per sheet.
His third motion would be for a copy of the existing patent to
the King's Printer • and' his fourth, for a copy of a certain Bil
and answer in a suit in Chancery, in which the King's Printers
were plaintillk.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that he
had some reason to complain of the course pursued by the Hon.
Member, who gave notice merely of a motion for a copy of the
patent of the King's Printer, to IshichAm opposition was con.
templated. The Hon. Member had, nevertheless, made a speech
upon a variety of documents, t kwhich he (the Chancellor of the
Lxchenuer) could make no reply, because, not expecting that
speech, he had omitted to bring dovii the necessary fioumunts.
The 'whole question was, whether ouch a patent as thatbf King%
Printer ought to be granted? That patent was not yet before
the House, and surely at the present moment it was premature
to discuss whether, when Mr. Pitt first granted it, he had given
it as a matter of patronage and profit to the individual ? Grant-
ing for the moment that it was so,, it was, at least fair to relieve
the present Government from all obloquy, because they had
completely altered the system, and` effbcted a saving for the
public instead of creating a charge. Of this fact he should be
able to satisfy the House when the documents were upon the
table, when he should also show the convenience of havitig an
authorised printer for Bibles and Acts of Parliament instead of
Universities
had to the chances of the trade. At present the
had a concurrent right with the King's Printer, and to abolish
the patent of the last would not destroy the right of the first.
The object was that there shouldbe some responsible person an.
thorised to print the laws of God and man, and it was welt
known that an Act of Parliament, from the press of the King's
Printer, was evidence in a Court of Justice. He denied the
present existence of any of the aggravated abuses mentioned by
the Hon. Me.nber, and he denied also that the i nuke of Welling.
ton had only reduced the patronage of Government by, the abo-
lition of a single office—that of Assistant-Solicitor to the Excise.
lie put it to the Hon. Member whether, as a Gentleman, and
not for the sake of argument, he meant to persist in that asset.
tion, which every one who heard him, must be aware was not
founded in fact ? The fact was, that as vacancies had occurred
many of them had not been filled up : the office of one of the
Commissioners of Stamps had been abolished ; a Commissioner.
ship of the Board of Taxes had also remained vacant, and the
same remark might be made of a Commissionership of the Ex-
cise, all which appointments might have been given away by the
Duke of Wellington. The saving, by the removal of Mr. Carr,
as Assistant-Solicitor of the Excite, had not been less than
5,0001. a-year. With regard to the observations of the lion.
Member on the manner in which the Duke of Wellington had
been said to have disabled himself in the I louse of Commons' he
(the Chancellor of the Exchequer) could only reply, that the
Hon. Gentleman had mistaken what had fallen front his Right
Hon. Friend on this point, for all that his Right Iron. Friend
had advanced was, that the Duke of Wellington had refused to
take that course, with regard to Ministerial patronage, which
would have enabled him to secure important additional support.
Mr. SPOTTISWOODE contended that the charges of the
King's printers would not be found unreasonable. He begged
to know on what ground the Hon. Member for Middlesex had
dared to assert that he (Mr. Spottiswoode) had entered into a
compact with Government that he should always vote in their
favour. He bad entered into no such compact; he denied the
charge; and if the Hon. Member would not retract it he should
throw It back in his teeth. It did not follow, because he ditibred
from the Hon. Member for Middleiex, that he (Mr. Spottis.
woode) must, of course, be corrupt. He had not the slightest
objection to the production of the patent, or of the accounts,
and hb challenged inquiry of every kind. He doubted, how.
ever, whether the bill and answer In Chancery could be properly
laid upon the table.
Mr. O'CONNELL observed, that copies of the bill and an.
swer might be procured on the payment of fees. It was not
charged that the lion. Member (Mr. Spottiswoode) had himself
entered into the compact referred to; the Hon. Member for
Middlesex had merely remarked upon the singular fact that the
vote of the King's limiter was always found on the side of Mini.
sters. It true that an Act of Parliament from the press of

iliaini'liirinierrw—a-relidenee in a Court of Justice;but no
patent was neceuary, inasmuch as any man who had the con.
tract was for that purpoae the King's printer. Ho was of old-
Mon that the patent was illegal for uncertainty.
Mr. MAMMY objected to discussion before the necessary
papers were upon the table.
The first motion was agreed to, after the CHANCELLOR of
the EXCHEQUER had exempted from it the profits of the
King's printer as a private tradesman.
Mr. HUME remarked that the Hon. Member (Mr. Spottis-
woode) had thrown at him what he (Mr. Hume) had never cast
in the first instance. Although there was no compact, It was
constantly found that • the King's printer bad voted with Go-
vernment.

CHANCELLORThe of the EXCHEQER added, that what
had roused the Hon. Member's indignation Wad the notion that
he was under a compact to vote for ldinistem
Mr. SPOTTISWOODE said that as he had understond the
charge, he could not help tliselabning it.
The other motions of Mr. Hume were carried, with the cit.
ception of that for copies of the hill and answer in Chancery,
which wus withdrawn.

Mr. HUME moved for a copy of the Regulations now in force
for granting Pensions and Allowances to Widows of Officers in
the Army, Navy, and Ordnance; to Clerks in Public Offices,
ate., in the United Kingdom. He observed that he wished to
bring the principle of granting pensions before the House; for,
as far as Ins opinion went, he was quite ready to agree to a reso-
lution, that from this day no new pension should be granted.
He did not wish the law to he retrospective; and he was willing,
if necessary, that the pay of officers should be raised, As mat-
ters now stood, extravagance was encouraged by the expectation
of a pension. He took this opportunity of stating, that until
this vice were taken out of the Poor Laws, the country would
never have a bold independent peasantry ; and he contrasted the
situation of the peasantry of England with that of the peasantry
of Scotland, where however, math distress was prevalent. lie
hoped that the subject would be discussed in this Session upon a
new principle.
Mr. R urn vEll hoped that the principle of not granting pen.
sions to the relicts of those who had faithfully served their
country would never he sanctioned by the House of Commons,
and complained that a number of inferior but deserving clerks
had been turned out of their offices without pensions.
Lord F. L. GOWER vindicated themanner in which thepen-
sions of widows were at present. regulated, and denied that it led
to extravagance on the part of officers. His predecessors in the
situation he now filled had long struggled against feelings of
compassion in granting pensions.
Mr. WARBunToN said, that if the Noble Lord really meant
to introduce economy into his department, he must arm him-
self with sternness to resist appeals to his feelings. All the
Hon. Member for Middlesex wanted was, that officers and men
in the army and navy should be placed upon the same footing.
Mr. HUME added, that he objected to granting a pension to
the widow of the rich man' and excluding the widow of the
poor man; they ought all to be placed upon the same footing.
After a few words from Lord F, Gowea and Mr. "'LIMY:, the

motion was agreed to.
Colonel SIBTHORP brought in a Bill for establishing a Court
of Requests for the Recovery of Small Debts in Great Grimsby.
—lt was read a first time.—Adjourned tilt Monday.

PARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDINGS.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

NOTICES OF bfOTIONS AND ORDERS O) THE DAY WNW

STAND IN THE ORDER BOOK FOR Wilt ENSUING WEEK.

ORDERS OP 11118 DAY.-MONDAY, NOV. 8.
1. Sussex Juries Bill—Second reading.
2. Trade with British Possessions abroad Act—Committee
thereupon.
3. Motion for Supply—Report thereupon,

NOTICH Or MOTION.
Sir Henry Hardinge—bill for the better regulation of the of
rice of Sheriffs of Counties in Ireland.

NOTICES OP MOTIONS, TUESDAY, NOV. D.
1. Mr. George Dawson—Bill to extend to Ireland the provisions
of the Act prohibiting the growth of Tobacco in England
and Sco.huni. •
2. Mr. Solicitor-General—Bill for extending the provisions of the
Statute frauds.
NOTICE OF srrtots, WEDNESDAY, NOV. 10.
Mr. Brougham—Local Courts of Justice Bill.
NOTICES 01, MOTIONS, TEURSDAY, NOV. 11.
1. Mr. O'Connell—Bill to repeal the Statute 7 Geo. 4, 0. 22, corn.
manly called the Sub-letting Act.
2. Mr. Slaney—Bill to correct abuses in the Poor Laws and Bill
for the better rating of tenements under a certain annual
value.
3. Lard Francis Leveson Gower—Select Committee on 'rolls
and Customs in Ireland.
4. Mr. Spring Itice—Select Committee on the state of the poorer
chimes In Ireland, and tho best means of improving their
condition.
5. Sir George Murray—Bill to render admissible Save evidence
in the Colonies.

oituEt_9F TIIN, DAV.

Lttlement of the Poor Bill—Second reeding,

rumen or surriwt, MOM', NOV. 12.
Mr, Hobhouse-.Address reLnive to the Interference of thili
Country with the Affairs of the Netherhunts.

WOTICES GIVEN YESTERDAY.

I. Mr. Stanley—ltesolutions relative to the Expenditure on the
Rideau Canal.—(Monday, Nov. lb.)
2. Mr. flarvey—Address to his Majesty, that he will be gra-
ciously pleased to direct the Commissioners appointed to
examine into the state of the Law, t inquire forthwith
into the powers exercised by the four Inns of Court to ad.
mit or 'reject persons who claim to become Members of
such Inns, or. being Members, claim to be called to the
Bar.—(A(twr Christmas.)

110 USE OF COM MONS......museusji. ryA 140,,,ontirv,
fleSolveth—That this House will not receive any Petition for
Private Bills, after Friday, the 95th day of February next.
Resolved—That no Private Bill be read the first time after
Monday, the gist day of March next.
Resolved..-That tide House will not receive any Report of such
Private Bill, after Monday, the oth .lay of May next.
J. 11. LEY, Cl. Dorn. Cont.

ELECTION PETITIONS.
Several Petitions complaining of undue elections and returns
being attired to be presented, the said Petitions were delivered
in at the table I and being all of them Petitions of the last class,
wine put into the glass at the table, and drawn by the Clerk in
the following order •
Dartmouth Borough Election—Petition of John llenry Seale,
Esq. and Sir Henry Willoughby, Bart., complaining of that elec-
tion t—to be taken into consideration upon Thurdday, the ,26th
day of this instant Noverniver.
Paine Borough Election--Petition of Edmund -Ilopkinson,
Esi,„ arid Edward Cheney, Esq,, complaining of that election--
Thursday, the With (14y of this instant November.
Vet far Burghs Election—Petition of the Hon. Donald
Oglivy,—,Thurettay, the :Id day of December next.
Wigan Borough Election... Petition of James Ilardeastle and
Richard Potter,' Foqrs...Thursday the tlAth or dam instant'Nov.
Rye Town and rot Mection—Petition of De Lacy Evans,
Noi and 'Benjamin Smith, I,:sti.—Saturday, the lot of Jan. next.
Marlborough Borough Election—Petition of Sir Alexander
Ma et,,flhrt. and John Mirehouse,
of this instant Novernber. Esq.—Thursday, the 2Sth day
Glogow, I. Ilurghs Eleelion.—Petition of Kirkman Finlay,
Edq,—Thureday, the tki day of December next.
St. Maws Borough Election—Petition of !mimeo Samuel
Boyne, Richard Denman, and Sparse James, electord,fuedday,
the 3, tb day of this instant November.
Tipperary County. oml/in—Petition of the Roy. Walter
filles, and others, electors—Saturday, the hit of January next.
liimerick City Igection--P.tilion or Samuel Dickson, Esq.--
mm: 4y, refi Ist der of January next.
weleod TUVirt KitniOliss,Petition of William Hughes and
others, freemen—Saturday, the Ist tiny of January next. Carlow Borough Election... Petition of rritneis Bruce,Esq.
and others—. Saturday, the lat day of January nest.
Dublin city Election—Petition of Henry Grattan, Edmi --83*
turday, the tat clay of January next.
Evedhant Borough Election—Petition of Timothy Millington'
Win, Beach, and ulcer eleetors—.Thoaday, the ':d nee. next.
Bnroughbridge Borough Election—Pt:Wien of Andrew Law`
wit mod wtmarrt Alexander Mackinnon—Thursday, thettdd"
December hdxt.

The Duke of W ELLINtiTow-,. on his way to
the PO Ise of Lords, no Thur►xlay night, w„ fonoweil by
WOW persona who hoully hissed and peened fti Me Grace's
carriage passed along the streets. Several stones were
flung at the F►}ri ;age, but without doing injury to any per-
son; the carriage passed on at a lipid rate.

~~ ,~

3 .:i

MR:O'CONNELL TO THE PEOPLE OF

IRELAND.

(From the Dublin Morning _Register.)

LONDON, 'NOV. I, 1830.
I have just heard that the act-of despotism has been repeated.
The paltry trick, got up with all the dexterity of pettifogging:
skill, to stifle public seotiment, having failed, though it had the
name of a Duke at its head—of a Duke who ought to be, though
he is not, alas, Irish—this paltry attempt having disgracefully
failed—the Government has once more put forth the hideous
arm of legal despotism, and proclaimed the " Irish Volunteers.'
Understand the legal effect of this document, and obey it to
the extent qj the law—but not one jot Rather. Let the obedience
to the law, despotic as it is be immediate. There must be per.
sons somewhere about the Government—there must be some se.
cret and Unknowaadvisers whose sanguinary counsels maybe
listened to, Alas for Ireland, if the people were not cautious and
prudent. Those who would again extinguish the spirit of Irish
liberty in Irish blood must not be gratified. Let no man violate
the law. Let every man obey the bfw. I. abjure all those who
could refuse to attend to advice so obviously calculated to pro-
mote the peace and happiness of Ireland. Let, therefore, the
law be obeyed.
I repeat once more any advice under these heads
First—Let there be no illegal oath taken by any person.
Secondly—Let there be no secret society formed.
Thirdly—Let there be no force or violence whatsoeyer re.
sorted to. •
Fourthly—Let every effort be Made to reconcile and hind in
ties of the strictest kindness and alThctlon the Catholies and
Protestants together. He is an enemy to Ireland who dales not
promote the most cordial conciliation.
Fifthly—Let the law be obeyed.
Sixthly—Let the exertions for the repeal of the Union encrease
with the feeling of honest indignation, which must till thebreast
of every human being who hears of the r, petition of the dpspotic
proclamation.
Exertions to repeal the Union must be continuous. Meetings
to petition should take place in every parish in Ireland.; Peti.
tions should be poured on the table of the House of Commons,
till it groans beneath them. It is thus alone that the spirit of
the people can be constitutionally shown. It is thus that-it will
become quite irresistible.
But whilst I recommend obedience to the prociamatiom—do
advise you to submit beyond the letter- of the law ? Certainly
not. Attend then to what the legal effect of the proclamation
is—and obey it to that extent only.
The proclamation only prohibits "the meetings" of the Irish
Volunteers." It does not, and it could not, dissolve that body.
The Association of " Irish Volunteers for the repeal of the
Union" continues to subsist, notwithstanding the proclamation.
It, should continue to subsist. Every man should bertune a
member of it, if he desires to see the Union repealed, Or dis.
likes despotism.
It is not illegal to become a member of that body—and I in,
tend immediately to enrol three more of my sons and my two
grandsons in the " Irish Volunteers." The secretary is at liberty
to take down the names of all persons becoming inemberi4
Thus the Irish Volunteers may increase in numbers laitwith.
standing the proclamatlon,•and without violating the law, Re.
collect 1 tell you, it isonly "the meetings" which are prohibited.
But the meetings are prohibited only in a qualified way; that
is, they must disperse after fifteen minutes, if any Majstrate
orders them so to disperse. The Irish Volunteers may, eren in
the presence of a Magistrate, continue their meetings for four-
teen minutes without incurring any of the penalties prescribed
by the statute.
For the present, then, my advice to the " Irish Volunteers,"
is to continue to procure persons to become members, and I will,
by the next post, suggest the mode of holding these fourteen
toinetes' meetings. Every thing Trust, however, be perfectly
public and above board.

But this is not all. No persons ate worthy to be free who do
not resist by all legal and constitutional means the progress of
despotic authority. These are not times in which any man is
warranted in base or timid subserviency to unjust assumptions
of power. ' It is. now the duty of every man to rally round all
that is left of the law, and to strain every nerve within legal
limits for the constitutional regeneration of our country.
Let, therefore, public meetings continue in every manner not
already prohibited. Besides parochial meetings to petition, you
can, in the tow ns and cities, continence a system of public enter-
tuinments, at which all necessary political subjects may be dis.
cussed. 1 would wish that an experiment of a public breakfast
were made at the theatre where the last public dinner wiugiven.
Tickets, at one shilling a head, may be issued, in sulflcient num.
bent to defray all expences. A Committee of Management
should, in the first instance, be got up so as to have all arrange-
ments made to prevent there being any kind of confusion or dis.
order, and thus the intrigues of the miserable Antiarish"
party may be exposed—the miseries of the country brought for.
ward for Investigation and redress and the modes of obtaining
that redress, in a legal and constitutional manner, pointed out
to the people.

If the Government think tit to proclaim down breakfasts, why "
then we will resort to a politicallunch." If the luncheon be
equally dangerous to the peace of the great Duke we shall have
political dinners. If political dinners be proclaimed down, we
must, like certain sanctified dames, resort to "tea and tracts,"
leaving us a right to meet at supper, until suppers are also pro.
claimed down—a step which I suppose will be postponed until
the return to Ireland of that sprig of most martial valour, Sir
Henry Hardinge
But in sober sadness let us show our solemn determination
that no despotism shall deter the friends of the leglslatise inde-
pendence of Ireland from asserting her claim to relief. Let all
be quiet=let all be peaceable—let all be legal—let all be consti-
tutional—but let us persevere with undaunted rind unmitigated
resolution to urge on the tuitional wish for legislative indepen-
dence.

The Duke of Leinster and Sir Charles Morgan, and men of
that calibre, have no claim or. our regard. They may call them.
selves " the aristocracy," and I suppose they do belong to that
illustrious and now fading body...but it is a cruel misfortune for
Ireland that mockery must mingle with her misfortunes, and
that contempt enhances her miseries. r •
People of Ireland—persevere in obedience to the law—but in
every exertion consistent with that obedience, calculated to give
back to the people of. Ireland their native country.
Itecollert•that if you repeal the Union, you get back for Ireland
at least eight millions of pounds sterling per annum, which are
now raised In, and spent o9tof,

I undervalu; the abet of the 'repeal of the Union, when 1 state
it at eight millions sterling a year.
This is wort)! struggling for—this is worth contending for..-to
restore tolreland what she had during the time her domestic legit.
laturo was Independent—Abundance and prosperity—sweetened
by all the soul-exalting blessings of constitutional liberty.
Believe me take, beloved fellow.countrymen, your most faith.
and devoted servant,
DANIEL O'CONNELL.