The Sun.
London, England, 1839-03-16 00:00:00

EVENING EDITION.

sinus, that the reduction in the value of the article ex-
ported must necessarily be co-incident with the reduction
of the profits, would lint turn to the evidence given by the
Manchester manufacturers in 1830. (The Right Hon. Bart.
here referred to the evidence of Mr. Henry and Mr Bird,
the latter of whom had filled the office of President of the
Chamber of Commerce.) If they found in any market the
price of cotton manufactures decline, let it not be attributed
to the decrease in the price of labour, but to the improve-
ment in machinery and the advance in mechanical skill.
_
Mr. Lee gave a comparative statement of the price of
manufactured cotton per lb. in 1812 and 1830. In 1812 the
price of the raw material was 2s. per lb., in 1830, 101 ; in
1812 the price of labour was Is. 6d., and in 1830 it was
Is.
was the T hreeqesueaenteitfy of labour
nsas one-third
tvdimie less,et,eh.—(ii and
Hear,
ar,hetahr.at)
They had beard of overstocked markets. What was the
statement of Mr. Kennedy on that subject in 1830? The
question was put, " Do you know that English manufac-
tures in India an, selling below prime cost?" The answer
returned was, " There is not a market in the world that is
not. sometimes overstocked."—( Hear, hear.) And if he
believed that certain markets had been overstocked, and
that there had been a temporary lull in consequence of the
extraordinary activity of last year, should he be justified in
concluding that the manufacturing industry of the country
was on the decline? What was the fourth allegation with
respect to profits? Large manufactories were built, and
it was said that profits were so small that they could not
gain anything but by the extent of their business.---:
( hear, bear.) The man with a large capital could
employ enormous machinery, and the same effects must
follow to the small manufacturers as had done to the
hand-loom weaver.— ( Hear.) The Preston mills had been
referred to as having been closed, but he had the satisfac-
tion of knowing that some of them had been re-opened,
and that the apprehensions which had been entertained
were not verified.—(The Right Hon. Baronet then read a
letter in confirmation of his statement.) But the last and
most important statement of the manufacturers was this
that the quantity of manufactured goods produced had in-
creased in consequence of the reduction of the wages of
the workman, exacting front him a degree of labour which
he was unable to bear; and with all this prosperity the con-
dition of the manufacturini, labourer and artisan was worse
than before. He conceived' that to be a most important
subject—he looked at it with the greatest anxiety, because
he was convinced that unless the question of the Corn-
laws could be shown to be consistent, not merely
with the
prosperity of agriculture, with the maintenance of the
rent of the land—but, unless the ground could be taken
that the maintenance of protection was consistent with the
general interests of the community, and especially of the
artisan and labourer, the Corn-laws were practically
at an end.—( Hear, hear, and cheers.) But be
would look at what had been the effect upon the
comforts of the poor, of this increased price of provisions
during the last year in some of the towns where manufac-
tures were chiefly carried on. The documents to which
he would refer *were the returns of the Savings' Banks.
In the first place, he wished to refer to the state of the.
Saving Bank in Liverpool, the principal place of commer-
cial export. Ile would take the average of four years,
ending 20th Nov. 1829-30.31-32, and the last four years.
The average number of new accounts in the Bank, in the
first period, was 1,300, and the last four years 2,040. The
average of deposits in the first four years was 55,0001., and
in the last four it was 80,000/. A great deal had been
said about Nottingham being particularly distressed. He
had been able to compare the rcceipte. in the Savings Bank
for the three months ending the last day of January, 1838,
with the receipts up to January, 1839—in the first year
when provisions were low, in the second when the increase
in price had taken place. In the first year the amount of
deposits was 12,2701. wad in the second 13,2111.
It might be said that the payments out had increased, but
the contrary was the fact, the payments out had ditninished.
Those who felt interested in the condition of' the labourer
would be glad to find that the operation of the Corn-laws
had tended to place him a condition of comparative cons-
fort at present, and also to put something by for an evil
day. Ile had gone also to Leicester, which he understood
had suffered from the competition of foreign hosiery. He
had taken the number of depositors under 201., because
whenever they found the small retail shopkeepers and people
of that class able to make deposits, it was a proof of pros•
perity among the labourers and artizans. He found that
the number of depositors in the year ending November,
1838, below 201., was 916, and the number in the year
before was 794—that the sum deposited last year Was
10,7421., and the year before it amounted to 9,843. Not to
confine himself to the hosiery and cotton manufacture, be
had asked what was the state of Birmingham, so far as the
condition of the Savings Banks afforded an indication of
prosperity in that class? The amount of deposits for the
three months ending January, 1838, was 12,2971.,
and the amount for the three months ending Ja-
nuary, 1839, was 14,8701. The House might ask
what were the payments out, and it appeared that in the
former year they were 9,9001., and the latter year 8,5001.
—( Cheers.) He had also taken Glasgow and Manches-
ter, and with respect to Glasgow he had received the most
satisfactory but astonishing statement. He could si?g,
avoid making an extract from it to the House, and it would•
show that an enormous increase had taken place in Glas-
gow, under the operation of a system which had given
protection to agriculture. In 1812 the population of Glass
gow was 103,000, and in 1838 it was 262,000, that in-
crease having taken place under a continued protection to
agriculture.—( Hear, hear.) In 1812 the customs °'
Glasgow received at the Broomielaw was 3,0001., and in
1838 the amount was 486,000/.—( Cheers. In 1812 the
Harbour-dues were 4,8001., and in 1838 they were 40,2001.
—(Loud cheers.) The supply of coal to Glasgow
in 1831, during the operation of the present s Is'
tens of Corn-laws was 561,000 tons, and it appears that
instead of the laws having diminished its manufacturing
prosperity, the consumption of coal had increased from
561,000 tons to 1,200,000 tons.—( Cheers. ) He would
now read to the House the extract from the third annual
report of the Glasgow Savings' Bank, and it began by
making a comparison as to the average amount due to each
individual depositor below 20/. in the year 1838, as cons-
pared with 1837. It appeared in 1838, the average.was
5/. 17s. 11d. ; and in 2837 it was 5/. los. sd. showing a small
increase of 2s. 6d. What was the comment made on that
fact by the Directors? The great number of stew accounts
and the very small weekly deposits, was the true and grati-
fying cause of the slow apparent increase in the value
of the deposits among those classes for whose benefit the
savings' banks were instituted.—(Cheers.) The balance
due to depositors in the year ending 1837, was 48,2451'
and in the year 1838, it was 90,2601. In the first of these
years, the number of factory operatives, and persons em-
ployed in warehouses, who were depositors, was 3,824, and
the number in the last year was 6,341. He then took the
case of Manchester, from whence complaints had first pro-
ceeded, and where the system of agitation had commenced
--(Cheers from both sides of the House)—that system of
agitation for which the Right Honourable Gentleman the
President of the Board of Trade had claimed credit--
( Renewed cheering)—that system of agitation which by the
aid of the Government press, would have been carried on
if those who had commenced it could have confined it
within convenient, bounds—(Cheers)—if they bad known
how to guide and controul the popular feeling. But they
soon discovered that agitation could not well be confined
to hostility to the landlords, but that there were others
who, availing themselves of the lessons that had been taught -
them, would agitate against the agitators themselves—whe
would tell them, whether truly or not he would not under-
take to say, " you who profess hostility to the landlords
and the aristocracy, who impute to them selfish motive*
think of nothing but your own profits, and grinding doffs
the poor. We will not be parties to this agitation—we"
will not lend ourselves to your schemes—we suspect your
object is to increase the profits of the cotton-spinner,
and, by lowering the price of corn, lower at the same
time the price of wages."—(llear, hear, and loud
cheers,) He abominated, as much as any roan, the doc-
trines that had been mixed up with the opposition to the
Corn-law Delegates, but at the *same time there might be
a salutary lesson taught to those who thought it was easy
to form a combination, and commence agitation, and fowl
they could prescribe limits by which physical force and
agitation could be kept separate.—( Hear.) He would now
take the report of the Manchester and Salford Savings
Bank for the year ending 4th of January, 1839,
which the Directors must have been reviewing
at the very time the Corn-law agitation was proceeding'
Among the Vice-Presidents and Trustees he found the
names of the Right Hon. C. P. Thomson, Mark Phillips,
John Joseph Brotherton, and George William Wood.---
(Great laughter.) It appeared that there were since the
previous year, 3,346 new accounts opened—that 20,4551
nad been deposited—that there were 42,697 former 'de-
positors, and the number of accounts open was no%
showing an increase on the previous year of 1,672.
—(Hear, hear, hear)' Those returns came down t°
the 4th of January, 1839, yet the proiperity of the manu-
facturing classes was not yet exhausted. The population
of Manchester and the neighbourhood afforded scope for
much more. Amongst the depositors in the Savings;
banks were 1,721 weavers, 5,634 factory persons, 11,774;
artificers and tradesmen, and others in a small way 0'
business. Now he (Sir R. Peel) would say that he con-
fidently hoped, putting aside the arguments of the Halt
Gentleman opposite, and putting aside the credit .which
was due to them as prophets, but relying altogether on tli,l
official documents which he had consulted, that it would
be seen that there was no evidence whatever of the silage t
decay of the manufacturing interests of the several greed
manufacturing towns, or that commercial prosperity hd.
been lessened, or the comforts of the poor diminish('
Upon these statements most certainly they could not esti
blish any basis to prove the absolute necessity of a reps
e
of the Corn-laws.--(Hear, hear, and cheers.)
(Sir R. Peel) was desirous, as far as he could, to Ceti
Bider every argument to which he thought any sreig d
could be attached. But he trusted he would be exnuie
if he should omit those statements that bad been now re-
peated for the fiftieth time. He was anxious that tv-'
Anti-Corn-law Delegates might see that in the course,
the debate the arguments and the representations whicha
they bad made had not been overlooked. The debate bad
now been resumed partly on another ground. It inij,
been said that the interests of the community in genfraa,
and of the agricultural classes in particular required a ro".
vision of the Corn-laves. He would admit that the fl°,
Gentlemen who advanced those propositions were riguat;
unless those on his side could show—what he for
convinced was the fact—namely, that protectioteleg -
agricultural interests was not only desirable, as but
consistent with the general welfare of the community, be
as being also conducive to it.—( Cheers.) But before
came ask whagGen,
the Hon- f tba
tleman at the opposite side had taken advantage
present high prices of corn in a time of temporary
Corn-
to raise a prejudice against the present system o.
or a
laws. He would submit that that was- not a sais,esrato
prudent course after the advantage which, to a toiruesent
extent, they had derived for several years from thrello, in
system. The present Corn-law came into (Wet '
increase
1829. Had its general action caused a grhe:3oth Se,"
of price ?—( Hear, hear.) In the eeyears from:t
erage price
tember, 1830, to 30th September, 1838, the f_.lyras
that a
of wheat had been 545. a quarter. I_l _ 703,
'eery high pri,..e compared v;t1) „1"0 it was
time of pee,e, tile average was 553. 4d. r 171,
the one of ; in 1789 it was 565., since which time
_no „the
torah body had had to endure heavy burdens.
fs:arcity