The Sun.
London, England, 1839-08-10 00:00:00

PERi AL PARLIAMENT.

H 0 tl7 '7E OF LORDS, Aucusr 9.
The LOUD CuaNcim.,Loa took his seat or. the Woolsack
at Five o'Clock.
A message from the 1-Ouse of Cornmells brought up
the Poor Law Commission Cow inuance Lill and several
other Bills.
Lord HATHERTON presented two petitions front
places in Staffordshire in favour of the pony' postage system.
SHEEP-SFEALERS (IRELAND) BILL.
Lord D U NC A NNON proposed that the
sheep Stealers
(Ireland) Bill should be read a second time ;
The Duke of RICHMOND thought that the
Bill re.
quired further consideration. It was proposed to intro;
duce an entirely new principle into this Bill,
.and tha
was that for sheep.steeling in Ireland, which was a felony,
the party convicted of the offence should be let off on par-
ing a penally of 51.
Lord DUNCANNON had no objection to postpone
the further progress of the Bill till Monday next.
JUDGES' LOIiCINGS BILL.
Upon the motion of Lord DUNCANNON, the Judges
I Lodgings Bill was read a second time.
SOLDIERS' PENSIONS BILL.
On the motion of Lord DUNCANNON, the Soldiers
Pensions B;11 was read a third time and peed.
POSTAGE DUTIES BILL.
Duties
thetlßleilmlmowotatioisonrnead a
of
of LLtohorridrddDtDiUmt.Ne,
NCancAdANpriNaf.:e)oali.s,,, the Posta g
€
Works (Ireland) Bill was read a third tirr:3 and
DUBLIN POLICE BILL.
Lord DUNCANNON moved the Order of the
Doy for the second reading of the Dublin Police Bill'
which, after a short conversation between :lie _Noble Lord,
Lord Ellenborougb, and Lord Fitzgerald and ci was
-Vo
I
read a second time. tiblerssPeudb.lic
On

CHARTISTS.
Lord BROUGHAM said that he had a petition to
present from a gentleman of the name of Taylor, a iisUr:
geon in Ayr, in Scotland, who happened to be ja
mingham at the time of the riot there, are.l who rain selicAt
by mistake as one of the rioters.—( Hear, hear.) trete )rush,
the time he was taken into custody he was, is
m
assisting one of ,the policemen, and, there
it was a pure mistake. He, however, was taken into cd'
tody and sent to Warwick gaol, where he was atiiPPeh
had hia hair cut, and subjected to all the indignities rhic„„
he (the Noble and Learned Lord) had described `""b
a former occasion other prisoners had bees. sub;
jected to. lie complained to their. Lordships,
his petiti:er, of the treatment he had experience
N .ble and Learned Lord desired to take this or
to
portunity of calling the attention of their Lordships be
another case, and more particularly the Noble Lord at
head of her Majesty's Government, that of a person aft":
name of Vincent, who he was informed was --
very repectable person in the
id
ciety, though a person of strong mpoldiltia
calelfseselinoigs::;
doubt. He had been convicted before Mr. Baron. Aleer.
son upon one count only, at the Monmouth Assizes.
Baron Alderson, on account of the great excitement that re.
veiled in that part of the country, sentenced him. 45, oe
example to others, to a severe punishment.tt,,
Noble and Learned Lord) did not complain of the seat
tence, although he thought it a severe one. But lv""
he complained of was, that this person was treated as
convicted felon, although he had been guilty of no feleul*
Neither Mr. Gili,bon Wakefield nor Mr. Horne Took ssereci
confined for twelve months in a gaol without being a 110,0,4
even a book to read. Treating men convicted of poriti
offences as if they were felons, appeared to him to bee esi
trary to every principle which ought to regulate Pero,
enactments. He, therefore, hoped this subject would rthe
ceive the due attention of tie Government. When
Hon. and Learned Judge who tried the case (Baron b.
derson) was applied to, he said he never thought of su
jecting the individual to such close confinement ; and cad
tainly this was the first time he ( Lord Brougham) tis
ever heard of a Leard Judge's recommendation to teere.Y
being treated with disrespect. Whether this was a stall
or not of the mode in which the threat which was made'
the other House would be executed, he did not know.
Lord MELBOURNE said he would call the attentio..
of the Noble Lord the Secretary of State to the subjeeta
He must say that if all the Noble and Learned Lord Pese
been instructed to state were true, there was some eau
of complaint.
MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS (IRELAND)

BILL.
Lord FITZGERALD and VESCI in reference to.the
petition which had been presented the other night by tof
Noble Marquis opposite (Norteanby.) from the towili.ich
Galway, contradicting the statements in a petition W"„te
he had presented from that town, begged to ..sbtrch
that he had since received representations !
fully confirmed the statements he then made. ffe' a
begged to state that unless he had been perfectlyybe ve
aa
vinced those statements were true, he never' would or.
ventured to have asked their Lordships to take aol)P A,
tent a step as that of removing Galway from Scheuz.tsle.r
ai d placing it in Schedule B of the Irish Municipal AL;
The Marquis of NORMA NB Y admitted that theme „,,o
ments of the Noble Lord were perfectly correct ; he. 8
received the petition on the day the Bill was to be ream,
third time arid he had, therefore, no alternative but to
sent it —The subject then dropped.
111 h, I ROPOLIS POLICE COURTS BILL. ,;„
Lord DUN CANNON moved the second reading 01
Metropolis Pulice Courts Bill. He thought he Sficilisi
test consult the convenience of their- Lordships, if he
dd„
not at the present:moment enter into the merits of the
f. rent clauses of the Bill, leaving those to be considered in,
Committee. The ground upon which the introduction o,
the present Bill became necessary was, that the pre-
sent existing law would expire at the end of the preen!
Session. Hitherto only one Bill had been introduce!
on this subject, but in the present instance it hid heea
thought Jesirable to introduce two Bills, one relative to.tbe
duties of the police, the other to the jurisdiction of thS
M4gistrates. The present Bill related to the 13°Iic!
Courts Bill. He trusted their Lordships would allow fi'
8.11 to be read a second time, reserving the discussionse°
any objectionable clauses till the Bill was in Committee.,
Lord LYNDHURST had no objection to the seces:
reading of the Bill pro forma, and taking the discussw
on the clauses in Committee. dot()
Lord BROUGHAM deprecated any Bill being ma „,
cease in its operation at the end of a Sesson, for the cOllO
quence would be that the Crown could never disc
five
Parliament upon any emergency without the delay of navi
or six weeks to enable a new Police Bill to be passed. "i
trusted that his Noble Friend would at once say he rne3a-i
to tha',
to abstnion a great part of the Bill. He objected
part of the Bill which gave the Crown the power Of
..,11
pointing to 27 offices, and he should, before he Far." ‘t
passedwi with the thseo
eßill,asilytatkherocoagrhe
theto otherkt owbrahooolvh
oit f
twhaes
Ltehgaitsittat'orb}::
The Bill was read a second time.
CHIEF JUSTICE DOHERTY.
The Earl of CHA RL EVIL LE said he had received
letter from Chief Justice Doherty relative to the case,:
Mr. Barnes and those prisoners who had been
the
tained on suspicion beyond the assizes. At
end of the Assizes the Chief Justice addresslT,
Mr. Barnes, and said in the strict performance of his
he ought to discharge the prisoners, as they had been detti";:t
ed an unreasonable time upon mere suspicion, and With' it
any legal ground. In the disturbed state of the countrY!..a
might impede the ends of justice. He would leave them 10.
custody, but it must be on the responsibility of Mr. Barn as
That he complained was placing a Magistrate who N,
zealous for the peace of the country in a most painfu`dhee
embarrassing position, and one which he thought `"7
ought not to occupy.
Lord TALBOT DE MALAHIDE and Lor
11'HARNCLIFFE said a few words on the subject,
the whole matter passed in so low a tone of voice, and the;
was so much noise in the House, that it was impossible
hear it in the gallery. •
The Duke of RICHMOND presented a petition fro 11!
Hereford in favour of a .penny postage.
POST-HORSE DUTY.
The. Duke of RICHMOND presented a petition agreed
to at a general meeting of the post-horse owners in 1441'
don, cornr laining that while they had now to undergo great
competition in Railroads, the Chancellor of the Excheque
still continued to impose the Post-horse Duty.

DIVINE SERVICE. -
The Archbishop of CA RTERBURY presented a Pe-
tition which was understood to be against persons socredf
bling in unlicensed plAces of worship for the purpose
Divine Service.
Lord ELLENBOROUGH said be should take th_le
opportunity of alluding to a provision in the 11;
in reference to churches. He alluded to that enact
ment which subjected a person to a rnaity for havir_if,
divine service performed in his house before more thaw
twenty pe sat S. He was quite certain there were 11l
persons who would have divine service performed in ther%
hoaQrc f eer not from fear of that provision.—( Helor
ear.) He bad himself incurred the risk of the penaltYao
four years, out (hid not choose to run it any longer. 'y
this was not all; a person was not at liberty to buillst
church, and put a clergyman into it, unless he endowe3 r
clurch as a place of divine worship for even-0h;
Titis he regarded as a great hardsh'p. 1' 1,.10 I
R alit Rev. Prelim would alter that law, he..(the Nt.°`;',,b
Lord) woull set about building a church to.morrotr,
he would maintain as long as he lived, but we"
not pledge himself to provide for it beyond his own lbe e;
but if that law were not altered, he never would build al'
The Archbishop of CANTERBURY said the Pree„;
sition of the Noble Lord was one that required a rch.-t
deal of consideration ; but any proposition that n'
deal
come regularly from the Noble Lord on the subject shone,
have his best attention. There might be great ineeigne
niences attending such an alteration of the law.
would be that there would be a great number of eenlehe
ticles es.ablished throughout the country, and man)" c
l*o
richer persons would not go to parish churches, whie." for
example, would have an injurious effect. Endowments 0
churches were required to ensure their perpetual use s.
churches, If the law were to be altered in this respect, P'°:ite
minded and liberal persons like the Noble Lord 0pF43,...- e.
might build and maintain churches during their life "I"ci
which afterwards might become deserted, and be conver..
into storehouses for goods, or other purposes wholly utle-,t,0
nected with religion. That which at first was thought ut '
be a very easy change was often found to be when set a"
attended with insurmountable difficulties. Right
Lord E L NBORO UG H observed that the deal
Rev. Prelate might easily conceive that he felt a goo° oree
of difficulty on this subject, as he was extremely desir..o
of the change, and yet he did not happen to differ fru
the Church of England in one single poiiit. late
Lord R ODEN hoped the Right Reverend Preinus
would take this subject into his moat s° to
consideration. It was a most severe and improper stuns
of the law that persons, for having more than 20 Pcrsl4
boa
in their houses, for the purpose of divine worship, %heti
be subject to the penalty of 501.—( Hear, bear)---7, to
they might have persons in any number in their houllat,
act plays, or to amuse themselves in arty other way wa.oo
ever.—( Hear, hear.) If there was such-an attere,.o.-
made in the law as would allow persor:s to astlatt u-rit4",]
private houses for religious purposes, inateadtif
Churches, he believed it would be greatly to their latbett-.
tage, beCause, if persons were to be made religious at
houses, they would he sure te_go.to Church.. ler
Lord HATRERTON anxiously :added his tostrel4