The Sun.
London, England, 1839-08-01 00:00:00

HIGHWAY RATES BILL.

Sir CHARLES BUR RE L L moved that the Report
on this Bill should be received.
Mr. HA WES objected to the Bill, thinking it to be
totally uncalled for.
Mr. PALMER supported the Bill.
The Report was received and the Bill was ordered to be
read a third time.

The Assaults Ireland Bill was then re-committed on the
motion of the SOLICITOR-GENERAL.

After some discussion on the proposition in the first
clause, the minimum fine for throwing stones was re-
duced from 10s. to ss.

The several clauses having been agreed to,
Mr. COOP& R proposed two clauses for the purpose 01
preventing the carrying of sticks loaded beyond the wcighi
of two ounces.

Mr. S. O'BRIEN objected to them.

The SOLICITOR-GENERAL for Ireland said the
law alluded to by the Hon. Member had remained a dead
letter upon the Irish Statute Book for ninety-two years.
It was repealed in 1828 by the Right Hon. Baronet the
Member for Tamworth ; and there was no change in the
state of society since which should induce the House to go
back in their Legislation. Suppose a carrier going along
the road at night, and alone, entrusted with much property
—suppose him to be attacked for the purposes of plunder
—be was not allowed to carry fire-arms—he would then be
altogethor defenceless if he were not allowed to carry a stick
of some kind for his protection. He opposed the clauses.
Col. PERCEVAL thought the fact of the Statute
remaining a dead letter in the Statutes of Ireland was the
best argument in favour of his Hon. Friend's clause.
Since it was repealed in 1828, the reports of Magistrates
in Sligo showed that those weapons were now extensively
in the possession of the peasantry. While the check upon
carrying of such sticks remained in force upon the Statute-
book, it was useless, but ho preferred prevention better
than cure, and therefore he_ hoped the clause would be
adopted.
Lord MO RPET H said if the present Bill did not do all
that was expected from it, then he would be most ready fa-
vourably to consider any plan which would prevent the car-
rying of such weapons.
Mr. COO PER would not press his clauses, which were
withdrawn. _ .

The House resumed—The Report to be brought up to-
morrow.
The Sheep Stealers (Ireland) Bill was recommitted,
several verbal amendments were made, and the House re-
sumed. The Report to be received to-morrow.
CONSTABULARY FORCE (IRELAND) BILL.
The House then went into Committee on this Bill.
The first six clauses of the Bill were agreed to with a
few verbal amendments.

On clause 7 being proposed,
Sir R. FERGUSON proposed an amendment that
the Inspector-General should have the power, at the re-
quest of the Magistrates in Quarter Sessions assembled,
of sending the reserved force into any disturbed province,
instead of being compelled to wait for the sanction of the
Lord Lieutenant.
Lord MORPETH considered it would be far batter to
leave the discretion with the Lord Lieutenant. The power
would by that means be exercised with a great deal more
efficiency and with less delay.
Mr. F. FRENCH and Mr. J. GRATTAN hoped the
Hon. Baronet would withdraw his amendment.
After a short conversation, Sir R. FERGUSON with-
drew his amendment, and the clause was agreed to.
Clauses up to 12 were agreed to without amendment.
Sir R. FERGUSON objected to clause 13, which pro-
posed to increase the salaries of certain officers.
Lord MORPETH defended the clause. It was highly
expedient, and would tend to the advantage of the service
that some officers in the force should have higher salaries
than others.

. _
After a few remarks from Mr. J. GRATTAN the
clause was agreed to.
On clause 14, which provides the allowance for clerks,
Sir R. FERGUSON objected to it.
Lord MORPETH said they were worked beyond all
endurance, and the six junior clerks received only 751. a
year.
Sir R. FERGUSON said that five-sixths of the work
would now be taken off.

The clause was agreed to.
Clauses 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, and 21 were agreed to
after a short discussion, and the introduction of some ♦erbal
amendments.
On clause 22,
Mr. F. FRENCH objected that it threw on the coun.
ties half the expense of clothing the police, whereas several
counties having refused to present sums for that purpose,
the twelve Judges had decided that on the original Act
the demand could not be substantiated. He thought this
system of ex post facto legislation highly unjust, for it
made the counties liable on account of the period during
which the twelve Judges had held that the liability did
not exist.

Mr. MORE O'FERRALL considered the proviso
founded on every principle of justice. The intention of
the original Act was undoubtedly that the counties and the
Consolidated Fund should divide the expense of the
clothing the police. But the counties referred to had
availed themselves of a technical informality in the Act—
the omission of the word " clothing"—to rid themselves of
the liability.
Sir D. JE PHSON said he could not have considered
himself, (had he been on the grand juries of the counties
alluded to,) justified in refusing to present sums requisite
to discharge their share of this expense.
Lord M 0 RPET H clearly considered the counties liable
for a moiety of this expense.
Sir R. FERGUSON was of opinion that the intention
of the first Act would only properly be gathered from its
words.

After a few words from Mr. HINDLEY and Mr. F.
Fastica, the amendment was withdrawn, and the clause
agreed to.
The remaining clauses were agreed to.—The House
resumed.—The Report to be brought up to-morrow.
The Report of the Committee on the Slave Trade
Treaties Bill was brought up by Mr. BERNAL ; as was
the Report on the Soap Duties Bill.—Both Bills were
ordered to be engrossed.
The Highways and Turnpike Roads Returns Bill was
read a third time and passed.
The Sale of Spirits (Ireland) Bill wont through Com-
mittee, with merely a lew verbal amendments.—To be
reported to-morrow.
METROPOLITAN POLICE COURTS BILL.
On this Bill being re-committed, a discussion took place
as to the propriety of permitting that clause to remain
which would liberate a person convicted of receiving stolen
goods on payment of a fine.
Colonel WOOD, proposed to leave out such part
of the clause as gave discretion to the Magistrate to find
or imprisonment. He thought there ought to be no fine,
for to the rich receiver it would be no punishment.

Mr. KEMBLE supported the amendment.
Strangers were ordered to withdraw. No division took
place.
On our return to the Gallery we found
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL dlaposing the pro-
posed amendment.
Mr. WILLIAMS objected to the clause ; he could
not vote for the Bill at all, unless the right of appeal were
allowed in every case. Even Juries and Judges committed
errors—why, then, should not Magistrates ? Trial by
Jury ought not to be lightly dealt with, for it was the
great conservator of liberty against an arbitrary Govern.
ment. It was treated lightly by the Solicitor-General.
Mr. F. MAULE said there never was a more ground-
less charge made than that which he bad made against the
Solicitor- General.
Mr. WILLIAMS denied that he had made any such
charge. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman smiled, and
he said it appeared as if be treated the matter lightly.
Strangers were again ordered to withdraw, and the
House divided. The numbers were—
For the clause
Against it l4
Majority
—22
The clause was then agreed to, as were clauses up to 36.
On the 37th clause, which gives the Magistrates a dis-
cretionary power as to the allowance of costs to informers.
Mr. K E MBLE said the informer ought to be paid in all
cases, but by this clause the Magistrate would have the
power to supersede an Act of Parliament.
Mr. F. MAULE defended the clause.
The gallery was cleared, and the House divided, when
the numbers were—

Clauses 38 and 39 were agreed to without remark.
Clause 40 was agreed to. 1
Clause 41 was struck out, on the motion of Mr. F. ii
MAULE. i
i

On clause 42,
Mr. HAWES suggested that household servants should
be included.
Col. T. WOOD said he should object to this and the
two following clauses, on the principle that they gave civil
jurisdiction to the Police Magistrates, a jurisdiction which
was to be provided for in the County Courts Bill.
Clause agreed to.
On clause 43, giving the Magistrates summary jurisdic-
tion in cases of wilful damage by tenants,
Colonel WOOD objected, and moved that it be omitted—
the clause however was agreed to.
On clause 44, giving similar jurisdiction in cases of il-
legal detention of goods,
Cols T. WOOD also objected, as did Mr. KEMB LE,
who said that he did not approve of giving Magistrates
toe p,
-swer of deciding questions of right up to the value
of Bt.
LICITOR.GENERAL said the provision
_nossession of illegally or fraudulenly
wasT hueseftS:
goods, small calue, and the parties might af-
l°to restore
acquired
terwards go to law.
case of a working man's
nstanbeyeda tlitacnd
tools
TM
hre Fclause AimproperlyAwasU id
detainedagreed
i
to ; as also clause 4a.

On clause 46,
Col. T. WOOD moved; proviso preventing ;.:',T4gis-
trates' clerks from receiving any fees in the execution e
their duty. The whole question was, would the Magis-
trates from the county have the privilege, for they
thought it was one, of sitting along with the stipendiary
Magistrate ?
Mr. WAR LE Y hoped the Bill would not so allow them,
for the Bill was intended to keep the administration of
justice in the Courts to be established in proper hands—
Justices for the county were appointed from high family
connections, and were not fitted for dispensing justice
where proper Magistrates were.
Mr. FOX MAULE said that was certainly the object
of the Bill—a paid and qualified Magistrate would always
be upon the bench.
Colonel WOOD—Did the Hon. Member suppose that
the county Magistrates were such country bumpkins—did
he for a moment suppose that they would allow themselves
to be so degraded as to—(the Hon. Member spoke in a
very brusque manner)—
Mr. F. MAULE spoke to order. He was not in the
habit of allowing any one to address him in the tone and
and manner of the Gallant Member either in or out of that
House.

Colonel WOOD had probably expressed himself impro-
perly—( Hear, hear)—but was it to be supposed that the
county Magistrates would not find themselves degraded
by such a clause. Was it intended that the appeals should
be. to Magistrates who were shut out from those Courts
where the charges were originally made ?
After a short desultory conversation, the clause was
withdrawn.

Clause 47 was agreed to.
Clause 48, with an amendment suggested by Mr. Wakley,
that the Magistrates should cause to be taken in writing
by the clerk so much of the information as he might think
essential in reference to the granting of a summons, was
agreed to.
The remaining clauses were agreed to.
Mr. BARNARD moved the following clause—" That
every person who at the time of the passing of this Act shall
alone, or jointly with any other person or persons. hold the
situation of clerk or clerks to the Justices of the Peace
for any petty sessions district within the limits of
the Metropolitan Police district, shall be entitled
to have and receive an adequate compensation
for his or their salary, fees, and emoluments, or
for so much thereof as will be liable to be lost or dimi-
nished by the operation of this Act, and such compensa-
tion in each case shall be such yearly sum, and for such
time, or such other sum, and to be paid in such manner as
three or more Lords Commissioners of the Treasury, upon
the petition of such person or persons shall think just
to be awarded; and the said Lords Commissioners of the
Treasury are hereby authorised and required to pay the
same in the same manner as is or shall be provided with
respect to the retiring allowances of resigning or super-
seded Magistrates under this Act."
Mr. F. M AUL E said he would take the opinion of the
Chairman as to whether this clause could be received.

Mr. BERNAL said that compensation clauses could
not be moved except in Committee of the whole House.

The clause was then withdrawn

Mr. SHEPPARD complained that the Bill did not
provide for the residence of a Magistrate to be at all
times found at head-quarters. He moved that one Magis-
trate be at all times resident at the chief of

Mr. F. MAUL E said the Secretary of State had power
to regulate the proceedings of offices, and care would be
taken that the case would be provided for.
The schedules were then agreed to.
Mr. HINDLE Y wished to know why the Metropolitan

Police were in a great part to be paid out of the Conso-
lidated Fund, when Glasgow, Manchester, and other
places supported their own police.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said they had been
sitting upwards of 12 hours, and it was too late to answer
the question then.
The House then resumed—the Report to be received
on Friday.
Mr. HODGSON HIND E then moved fora copy of a
letter (dated the 7th day of January 1839) addressed by
the Master of the Rolls to the Secretary of State for the
Home Department, respecting the custody of the public
records ; copy of a letter (dated the 18th day of June
1839)—addressed by Sir Francis Palgrave to the Master
of the Rolls, and by him transmitted to the Lords of the
Treasbry ; copies of any communications addressed to
the Master of the Rolls by the Secretary of State for the
Homo Department, or the Lords of the Treasury, on the
subject of the above letters.—Ordered.
The LORD ADVOCATE obtained leave to bring in
a Bill to amend the mode of assessing Rogue money in
Scotland, and to extend the purposes of such assessment.
Adjourned at HALF-FAST TWELVE o'Clock.