The Sun.
London, England, 1837-04-20 00:00:00

SPANISH AFFAIRS.

The Order of the Day having been read for resuming
the adjourned debate upon Spanish Affairs,
Mr. OTWAY CAVE rose, but the Hon. Gentleman
spoke in so low a tone as to render it almost impossible
to catch a single sentence that he uttered ; we however
understood him to say that General Evans would be highly
gratified by the manner in which his name had been men-
tioned on that side of the House, particularly by the Hon.
Member for Marylebone, who had spoken of him,
though absent, as became a man and as a gentle-
man.—(Hear, hear, hear.) He (Mr. Otway Cave) consi-
dered the present motion had been brought forward in or-
der to smooth the way of Don Carlos ; and if he wanted
any proof of that, he had only to refer to the cheers that
followed the statement that such was the fact by his
Honourable Colleague last night.,—(Hear, hear, hear.)
It had been asserted by Hon. Members on the other side
of the House that General Evans was a sort of mercenary
Commander of an unorganised Legion, and that if the
English forces were allowed to remain in Spain, further
disgrace and disaster would be inflicted. Now, those as-
sertions were made the ground work for the present mo-
tion. He trusted the House would bear with him while
he stated a few facts which he thought would shew the mo-
tion ought not to be countenanced. The cause of the disor-
ganization was mainly to be attributed to the Horse Guards,
who refused to allow officers to go out to Spain, and who
made every officer upon leaving this country state that he
would not go into service in Spain.—(Cries of " Hear,
hear.") In the second place it was to be attributablo
to the political writers of the Tory press, and he said that
advisedly, who had endeavoured, by every species of abuse
and intimidation, to seduce the soldiers of the Legion, and
to dishearten them by statements that their countrymen
had no sympathy for them.—(Hear.) The charge brought
against his Majesty's Government was extremely inconsistent.
Parliament had never been called upon to set aside an
Order in Council from the time of the American War. The
King in his speech from the Throne had given permission
to his subjects to enlist in the service of the Queen of
Spain, but the Horse Guards had set its veto upon
that permission, and had refused to allow any officer
to take part in the contest under pain of trial by Court-
martial. He complained of the motion having been made
at a time when the Legion had been disheartened and dis-
organized by defeat.—(Hear, hear.) He hoped to be able
to satisfy the House that the charges brought against
General Evans and the Legion had no foundation in fact,
and if he proved that, be was satisfied the Right Honour-
able Baronet would be quite ready to do an act of
not tardy, but immediate, justice to men, some of
whom were his own companions in arms. At
the time those charges were made, there happened
to be in England, an officer of high distinction, whose cha-
racter was above suspicion, who was well known to many
Honourable Members of that House, and who, although he
had had a personal difference with General Evans, was so
disgusted and shocked with the scandalous nature of the
charges brought against him, that lie had sent him (Mr. 0.
Cave) a letter, although he had scarcel♦ the honour of
his acqu•iintance, merely because lie knew him to be the
personal friend of General Evans, which would completely
bear out everything he had stated, and which, with the per-
mission of the House, he would now read. The letter was
from General Shaw.

The SPEAKER interrupted the Hon. Member, and
said that he might read any extracts from the letter for the
purpose of refuting allegations that had been made in that
House.

Mr.o AVE—The writer had the utmost respect for SirH.
Hardinge, and therefore he was sorry that he had been induced
to make such charges against Gen. Evans upon the autho-
rity of others. He (General Shaw) was not a personal
friend of General Evans, for lie did ❑ot think that lie had
used him well—that however was a personal matter. Sir

Henry had called the Legion mercenarics.—(Hear,
hear, hear.) • He could assure him if he meant they
were fighting for pay, that they were not. Many -of them
had for years been fighting for those constitutional principles
which in a very few years must govern the world, and he
could farther assure him, that,Si r Henry had received more pay
for one campaign in the Peninsula than he (Gen. Shaw) had
received, during six years that he had been in command of a
brigade. The letter then proceeded to give categorically a
positive denial to all the statements quoted by Sir Henry
Hardinge from the work of Major Richardson. Though he
had left the Legion he bore good testimony to their conduct.
Such were the officers, and such were the men whom they
were called upon deliberately to stigmatise by their vote
that night, for the purpose of casting a slur on their foreign
policy, and embarrassing the Government. That House
had been called an assembly of gentlemen—he would call
on them by the feelings of gentlemen not to inflict
that disgrace on themselves, by perpetrating such an act
of monstrous injustice as to condemn men who were not
there to defend themselves.—(Cheers.) It was a most
fortunate thing that he had been in possession of those
facts, otherwise a verdict might have been obtained
against those brave and honourable men—(Hear)—they
would have been stigmatized in the eyes of all Europe ;
mutiny and dissatisfaction would have spread through
their ranks, and have prevented General Evans from re-
trieving their loss. Perhaps he might now be allowed to say
a few words as to General Evans himself. He knew, and
could give proofs of it, that General Evans had been
actuated by the noblest, the highest, and the purest
motives.—( Cheers.) Those who had the honour of knowing
him knew that he was incapable of being actuated by
other than the most honourable motives. But as it
might go forth to the world if this motion were carried,
which he thought it would not be—(hear, hear)—
and as from the speeches made on the other side of
the House, any one who had heard them would think Gen.
Evans was a mercenary—and that was the term which
the Right Hon. and Gallant Officer opposite had
applied in the heat of debate be would admit—but whiCh
he was sure he would retract.—(Loud cries of Hear,
hear, hear.) He had said that General Evans was himself
a mercenary, and that the soldiers of the Legion were a
brutalised and demoralised rabble. That having been stated,
which of course would go forth to the world, he would,
with the permission of the House, read another extract
from a letter lie held in his hand.—(Hear, hear, hear.)
When General Evans was about to leave the coun-
try, it was thought by his friends he ought to make some
stipulation for himself ; that as he was giving up great
advantages in this country, and exposing himself to risk ;
and as that which was dearer to him than his life, his repu-
putation would in his absence be exposed to every species of
slander, he was urged to make a stipulation that be
should receive 10,0001., for going out on the expedition.
What was the conduct of General Evans on that occasion ?
He had declined to accept of one farthing for his services in
that cause.—(Loud cheers.) He did not think that the
House would sanction an imputation on the character of
General Evans or the British Legion, for the purpose of
embarrassing his Majesty's Government.—( Hear, hear.)
These charges, he contended, were frivolous, unfair—
he was sorry be had . to add ungenerous—and he was
satisfied he had proved to the House that they were un-
founded.—(Cheering.) One of the charges against General
Evans was that he had made a reconnaisance on a Sunday ;
but the Hon. and Gallant Officer had served, with honour
to himself, under the Duke of Wellington, and he would
.not venture to assert that he had never undertaken any
military operation on a Sunday.—(Hear, hear, hear.)
He said that it was most ungenerous on the part of the
Gallant Officer—these charges were made not only in their
absence, but when they were unfortunate ; for the Gallant
officer well enough knew his profession to be aware that if his
motion were carried, the Legion would never have an oppor-
tunity of redeeming themselves. The Legion had suffered a
severe defeat ; but it was to be remembered, that out of
eight actions, in seven they had covered themselves with
glory, and that even then they had not lost their honour.
—( Hear, hear, hear.) He quoted the opinions of Gen.
Harrispe, who, writing to General Evans, said the
Legion had sustained their honour, and that only time and
discipline were wanting to make it as good an army as the
regular one. The Legion had endured great privations and
sufferings, which were revolting to the generous and humane
throughout the world. Let them not by their vote
add to those sufferings—do not refuse to give them an op-
portunity of redeeming themselves. The Hon. and Gallant
Member was not the hand which ought to have inflicted this
blow on the Legion, and for the purpose of serving Don
Carlos. When Don Carlos was in Portugal, his only cry
—a most abject one—was, " Save me from Rodil." Ho was
saved by the interference of the English, and his return
was, issuing the butchering decree of Durango, as the Standard
newspaper called it. He would read to the House tho observations
oft tha journal, which formed an honourable exception to party
publications, and put the claims of Don Carlos in the clearest
light. The Honourable Member thou read an extract from
the Standard. He hoped that Don Carlos would yet die a
felon's death—suspended from a branch of one of those trees
the roots of which he had nourished with human gore. If he
should fall into the hands of the friends of constitutional liberty
in Spain, he ( Mr. Cave) hoped they would recollect bow their

former clemency had been abused. Let them recollect the
fate of Riego, a man as brave in battle as he was humane in
victory and amiable in private life. All his noble qualities
could not save him from the torture of the Inquisition, that
true Conservative engine. If they had again the power-let
them not leave it within the reach of any man to trifle with the
sword of justice. Until the upas tree shall be cut dorm let
not the hatchet tremble in the hand.—( Cheers.) -:7k
Sir H. H A RDING E said that it was necessary he sltould
make a few observations in explanation of what had fallen
from the Hon. Gentleman opposite in his speech—a speech
which did the Hon. Gentleman great credit.—(Cheers.) The
warmth of the Hon. Gentleman on this occasion, considering
that he was the personal friend of General Evans, wag not
only justifiable but must call forth the sympathy of 'the
House.—(Cheers. ) What he (Sir H. Hardinge) had stated
on the authority of Major Richardson, he so stated bedause
he knew that Major Richardson was an officer in the Bitish
service ; and, having made inquiries respecting him, he Aund
that he would be justified in maki:ig any statement oat his
authority. The cause of the dislike, as he understood, which
the brother officers of Major Richardson entertained towards
him was, that Major Richardson hail published some state-
ments which gave them offence at St. Sebastian. A Court
of Inquiry was instituted, and it was admitted by General
Evans in his own handwriting that there was no imputation
on Major Richardson, and it was after that occurrence he got
his majority.

Mr. BARRON rose to order. This was the tenth speech
the Hon. Gentleman had made on this subject.
The SPEAKER said that the Hon. and Gallant Of
bad a perfect right to give an explanation of any matter that
related to himself; but he could not go into a defence of
Major Richardson. Any other Hon. Member could do so as
well, if it were necessary. -111
Sir H. HARDINGE was at all times ready to sabtint to
the opinion of the Chair, but he thought it necessary to say
a few words.

Sir T. TROUBRIDGE rose to order. He meant no dis-
respect to the Gallant Officer, but he wished to know from
the Chair what really was the rule of the House, as it had been
laid down a few nights ago?
Sir H. HARDING E--The House will recollect that, from
the form in which my motion is brought forward, I can have
no right to a reply, and, therefore, I hope the House will per-
mit me—

Mr. BARRON—I rise to order. The Hon. and Gallant
Officer is endeavouring to do that now which the rules of the
House do not allow him. He is now making a reply.
Sir H. HAR DING E—l did not interrupt the Hon. Gen-
tleman opposite (Mr. Cave), as I might hare done, while he
read a long letter in vindication of General Evans ; on the
contrary, I heard that letter with satisfaction.•. I think, there-
fore, that I may be allowed to say a few words in vindication
of another officer, without any Member being so presumptuous
as to call me to order for doing so.
Mr. BARRON, with great excitement —I shall always,
Sir, be so presumptuous as to do my duty in this House, and I
think it a piece of excessive impertinence in the Hon. Gentle-
man—[Here an Hon. Member who sat by the side of Mr. Bar-
ron pulled him to his scat and broke the sentence.]
The SPEAKER was sure the Hon. Member must at once
see that he had used language which was quite unparliamen-
tary and unjustifiable. The words excessive impertinence
were such as ought not to be used in that House.
Mr. BARRON—UtiIe Hon. and Gallant Gentleman with-
draws the term " presumptuous," or says that he did not mean
to apply it to me in an offensive sense, I have no objection to
retract the expression I used, but not otherwise.
Sir H. HARDINGE—There is often as much offence in
manner as in words. It is the farthest from my intention to
give offence or insult to any Hon. Gentleman in this House.
As to the expressions that have been used, I desire to pay no
attention to them now. I lay them by for the present.
Major CURTE IS—I really think the Hon. and Gallant
Gentleman ought to explain.
Sir C. BURRELL—Both the Hon. Members are bound
to explain, and satisfy this House that their explanation is
complete.
Major BE AUCLERK—I think the Hon. Member for
Waterford ought to be perfectly satisfied with the declaration
which the Hon. and Gallant Officer has already made, that
he meant no insult to any Member of this House. I should my-
self be satisfied with such a declaration:

Lord PALMERSTON said the lion. and Gallant Officer's
statement might be thought qualified, but words had been ut-
tered which should not have been used. He (Lord Palmer-
ston) would put it to the House whether in the heat of debate
both Hon. Members had not used words which they certainly
should not have used, and which lie was satisfied they would
not have used under any other circumstances ? The expres-
sion of the Hon. and Gallant Officer was one offensive in its
nature ; but the word " retort," used by his (Lord Palmer-
ston's) Hon. Friend behind him, was not applicable either.
He (Lord Palmerston) therefore submitted to the House that
both Hon. Members should say the words used were not em-
ployed in an offensive sense.
The SPEAKER was in hopes that, after what had occurred
he should not have had to interfere in the matter any more.
The moment he heard the word " impertinence" from the
Hon. Member for Waterford, he felt himself bound by his duty
to call him to order. The explanation afforded by the Hon.
Member convinced him that the word was used in the heat of
the moment, and without any offensive meaning. The subject
would have been dropped but for the words of the Hon. and
Gallant Officer already noticed. That was the state of the
case ; and he hoped that the Hon. and Gallant Officer would
have no hesitation in saying, as the Hon. Member for Water-
ford did, that he did not use it with an offensive meaning.
Sir H. HARDINGE should submit to the authority of the
Chair. He hoped that at his time of life it was not necessary
for him to make any display for the sake of acquiring a cha-
racter for courage.—( Hear.) He was bound, however, to
say, in self-defence, that before he used the word " presume"
—which he admitted was not a Parliamentary one—the Hon.
Member's manner to him had been markedly offensive. His
after-allusions made it much worse. He felt, however, how
useless it was to go on with the matter, and with that convic-
tion lie should not hesitate in saying, that he would found
no further proceedings on it, on the word " impertinent."
Mr. BARRON begged to say, that' he would freely with-
draw the offensive words.

Sir H. HA RDINGE—WeII, it is perfectly useless to go
further. The Right Hon. and Gallant General then went on
to explain, but the few sentences he began with were in-
audible.

Lord PALMERSTON rose to order. He would put it to
the House whether the Right Hon. and Gallant Officer was
not going too far—that is, whether he was not making a
speech, ii place of giving an explanation ?
Sir H. HA RDING E would submit, and confine himself
to mere explanation. On the occasion alluded to he stated
that the men of the Legion had on several occasions signalised
themselves by various acts of bravery, and that it was only
when they disgraced themselves by acts of insubordination and
violence that their services ceased to be useful. With regard
to General Evans, he had borne the highest testimony to his
character, for he had said that he believed him to a humane,
a brave, and a generous man. Every friend of that Gallant
Officer would, therefore, exonerate him ( Sir H. Hardinge)
from any thing which could be construed into a charge of
abuse of him. The opinion he (Sir Henry:Hardinge) ex-
pressed on the occasion was founded on the letter of Colonel
Churchill, which stated explicitly that the force was rendered
totally inefficient through insubordination.

Captain BOLDER-0
(who was very inaudible), in re-
ference to the manner in which the character of Major Ri-
chardson had been alluded to by the Hon. Member for Tip.
perary last night, was understood to say that that officer had
been wickedly calumniated.
Mr. O'CONNEL L rose to order. He put it to the
Chair whether one Hon. Member should say that another
Member had " wickedly calumniated" any one ?
The SPEAKER did not hear the words complained of;
but if they were uttered they were certainly not in order.
Captain BOLDERO would bow to the Chair, and will-
ingly retract them. The Hon. Member had said that Major
Richardson was dismissed from the service of the Qaeen of
Spain, and that the officers of the Legion refused to associate
with him. Neither of these were the facts. It was true that
the officers of the 6th Regiment had written a certain letter to
him, but the causes which led to it were easily explained.
Major Richardson (then Captain Richardson) was wounded
in the action of the sth of May, and he came back to England
to recover his health in consequence. While here he wrote
and published a pamphlet which it seems was not palatable
to the Legion. On his return to Spain, the officers of the
6th Regiment, who took it into their heads that they were
particularly reflected on in that work, wrote him a letter, de-
manding a retractation of those passages which they deemed
offensive. Captain Richardson at once declined, and wrote to
Gen. Evans, demanding a Court Martial on himself or on
them. Some time elapsed before he had an answer to this ap-
plication. At last a Court of inquiry was held on him on
the 30th of June, 1836. The charges he was called on to •
answer were two, namely that he had written a pamphlet and
published it in England, in which he had spoken ill of the Le-
gion ; and that he had on May sth quitted the field of battle
at 8 o'clock in the morning, without sufficient cause to justify
him, as the wound he had then received was so trivial as nut
to warrant such a proceeding on his part. The President of
that Court-Martial was Colonel Chichester, an officer well
known to most Hon. Members in the House, at least by repu-
tation ; the others were Colonel Kinloch, Lieut.-Colonel
Beatson, Lieut.-Colonel Harley, Lieut.-Colonel Kirby,
Lieut.-Colonel Sloane, and Major Hogg, all officers of dis-
tinction in the service of the Queen of Spain. In disproof of
the latter charge :
Surgeon 'Thomas Cross, of the Artillery, was called by
Captain Richardson, and stated as follows :—On the sth of
May, about half-past eight in the morning, I saw Captain
Richardson coming from the front ; he was very faint, and
covered with mud. I ran to him, gave him my arm, and took
him to where the medical officers were. Whilst wo were
examining his wound he fainted, and I considered he was
suffering very much from the wound, from fatigue, and fast-
ing, although brandy had been administered to him. Upon
inquiry I found that he had been trampled under foot by at
least half a company, which, in conjunction with his being
struck three times by the enemy, of which I saw the marks,

I thought sutlicient to account for his subsequent exhaustion.
I recommended him more than once to quit the field, which
he peremptorily refused to do. This was about nine o'clock.
He again returned to the ramparts, where in half an hour after
I saw him, and returned to him his pistols. I saw Captain
Richardson in bed about half-past eleven; he was much ex-
hausted, and suffered much pain from the wound, whilst I was.
dressing it.
" Surgeon Duplex, of the Rifles, having been summoned.
stated as follows :—I saw Captain Richardson's wound on the
6th of May ; it was a very severe contusion, and knowing that
he had but very lately recovered from the fever, and hearing
that he had been trampled upon, I wondered that he had been
able to stand the fatigues of the day at all."
So much for the evidence, and the way in which that charge
was refuted. The trial concluded, and the following was the
opinion of the Judges on it :
" The Court having maturely weighed and considered the
papers printed and written, which have been laid before it,
together with the evidence which has been produced, are of
opinion, with respect to the printed preface, that, although it
exhibits considerable disappointment and vexation on the part
of Captain Richardson, which, under all the circumstances,
the Court cannot but consider natural, still there is nothing
in it calcalated to cast discredit on the Legion."
The opinion of the Court then went on to say, in respect of
the first charge—
" With reference to the letter received from the Assistant
Military Secretary, dated Head-quarters' St. Sebastian, 30th
of June,.1836, the Court is of opinion that his having done no
duty with the 6th Regiment is very satisfactorily accounted
for from his having been upon the staff when appointed to it,
and afterwards from his severe illness. With respect to his
having retired from the action on the sth of May, at 8 o'clock
lit the morning, on the ground of a wound in the arm, which
was so extremely slight as not to justify his having withdrawn
himself, the Court is of opinion that it has been proved he did
not withdraw until some time after he had been recommended
by a medical officer to do so, and that, under all the circum-
stances, not the slightest imputation rests upon him for having
retired when lie did."

The finding of the Court-martial was communicated as a
matter off' course to General Evans, and the following re-
marks were made on it in his own handwriting :
" He has cordial pleasure in fully concurring with the Court
that not the slightest ground of imputation rests upon Captain
Richardson for his conduct on the sth of May, in which he is
proved to have done his duty as became a British officer. On
the other hand, on the part of the officets of the 6th Regi.
ment, not knowing all the facts, not knowing the grounds of
complaint, and of palliation of the manner- of that complaint,
only evinced a becoming spirit in resenting the supposed offen-
sive insinuations which Captain Richardson had thrown out,
no doubt in a moment of irritation.

" This inquiry, and its satisfactory result, must be deemed
by Captains Richardson and Calder to have cancelled the let-
ters which have passed between them : and these officers are
hereby distinctly directed so to consider them ; and had not
Captain Richardson tendered his resignation, urgently re-
questing it to be received, the reparation would now be done
him for the injustice of which he bad a right to complain by
appointing him to the Majority vacant by the death of Colonel
Tupper.
(Signed) "D. L. E VANS, Lieut.-Gen.
" St. Sebastian, July 10, 1836."
(True

"W. CONSIDINE, Col., Mil. Sec.
He ( Capt. Boldero) hoped that that was a sufficient answer
to the charges of the Hon. and Learned Members for Kil-
kenny- and Tipperary against a gallant and deserving officer ;
and he trusted the House would consider he stood in as ho-
nourable and upright a position as did he (Captain Boldero)
himself. He defied those Hon. Members to prove one single
word they had said in his disparagement. At all events Capt.
Richardson did not remain in retirement after that proceed-
ing ;
_he withdrew his resignation, and was appointed Majo
of the 4th Regiment by General Evans. In that capacity he
did duty with it, and received, on relinquishing his command,
an address for his gallant conduct. So much for that subject.
With respect to the question before the House, it resolved
itself into three heads. (The Hon. Member was inaudible in
his brief enumeration of them.) The Hon. Member for Kil-
kenny had said that the Auxiliary Legion were badly treated,
badly fed, and badly lodged, yet that, notwithstanding all,
they had behaved bravely in action, and carried victory by the
success of their arms. In four or five instances no doubt they
had done so, but did it enable them, after all, to obtain a
better position than the one which they first held ?
Not having obtained that position up to this period,
it was useless to hope for it now ; for General Evans
had then 7,000 or 8,000 available men under his command,
whereas he had only from 3,500 to 4,000 at present. The
second head (as we understood the Hon. and Gallant Member)
was cruelty. In regard to that, what was the situation of the
Legion ? Immediately on their arrival in Spain they found
themselves placed in positions where they had to witness
cruelties of the most revolting nature, committed by the party
opposed to them, as well as those with whom they acted—by
the Chapelgorries as well as by the Chapelchorries—by troops
not within the pale of the Durango degree. There could be
no doubt that they were influenced by them ; and that the
order to give no quarter stimulated them still further. If lie
(Captain Boldero) were placed before an enemy who he was
sure intended to run him through, whether he resisted or whe-
ther he did not, by George I he would give him no quarter.
—( Hear, and laughter.) The third head related to the ad-
vantages gained for the cause of the Queen by the Legion.
That advantages—one solitary advantage he should rather have
said—had been gained for the Queen's cause was beyond a
doubt ; but that was not gained by the Legion. He alluded
to the relief of Bilboa ; and every one knew that the Legion
had nothing whatever to do with it. It was a well-known fact
that Don Carlos lost possession of that city through his humanity.
An Hon. Member had said in the debate of last night that
Don Carlos could capture St. Sebastian in the same time as
Bilboa. In answer to that he (Captain Boldero) should only
state that Sir Thomas Graham, with ten thousand picked Eng-
lish soldiers, was sixty days doing so. Allusions had been
made to the terms in which the French spoke of our fellow-
countrymen on that occasion ; but he (Captain Boldero) de-
nied that they stained their arms. The conduct of the British
troops on that, as on every other occasion, added lustre and
brilliancy to their feats of arms. But it was urged that the
Government co-operated, rather than interfered, in the Spanish
question. Now he (Captain Boldero) would wish to know
the difference between co-operation and interference. He had
asked the Noble Lord opposite last year for what purpose were
sappers, and miners, and engineers sent out of the north of
Spain, and the Noble Lord had replied that they were neces-
sary to secure Lord J. Hay's anchorage. If that was the fact
it would be all very well ; but he (Captain Boldero) could not
conceive how sending them into the heart of the country, to
places from which a shot could not by possibility reach a ship,
was the way to effect that objeet. If the motion of the Right
Hon. and Gallant Officer were to be lost he (Captain Boldero)
trusted that the Noble Lord opposite would state his inten-
tions to the House on the subject.
Mr. OTWAY CAVE and Capt. B OLD ERO mutually
explained.
Mr. ROEBUCK said that the Hon. and Gallant Member
who brought forward this motion, made some allusion to him,
which seemed as if intended to catch a vote, but lie should not
succeed by the manoeuvre. All parties, said the Hon. and
Gallant Mover, were interested in supporting the motion.—
( A cheer from the Opposition side.) The Gallant General
cheered, but did lie forget that all the difficulties under which
this country now laboured, arose from pursuing a different po-
licy ? Did not the Tories, while in power, interfere upon all
occasions in the affairs of other nations? Was not England
on that account called the bull dog of Europe ? Did they not
interfere when Napoleon was endeavouring to civilize Spain,
and did they not say they would assist them to establish a free
Constitution in Spain, and encouraged the Spaniards to fight
for what they called liberty? Did the Spaniards not perpetrate
the greatest cruelties upon the French, and did they desert
them on that account ? No, it was then called courage and patri-
otism. After exciting them in the name of liberty they gave
them over to the beloved Ferdinand.—( Hear, hear.) This
was a mere contest fur place. His quarrel with Ministers
was for interfering at all. If the Spaniards wanted li-
berty, they—and every other nation—should obtain it
for themselves. They could not maintain it otherwise. If
Ministers were so deeply interested in the cause of liberty
they ought to look to France as well as Spain ; for the mad
doings of Louis Philippe threatened the existence of a Consti-
tution in France as much as Don Carlos did in Spain. They
ought to mend their own Constitution, in place of going about
it in this Quixotic way, seeking to establish Constitutions in
other countries. Where was the Member for Tipperary (Mr.
Sheil), who spoke so eloquently last night on Spanish liber-
ties, when the question of Canadian liberty was under discus-
sion ? They should not confine their efforts for liberty to
Spain, but extend them to England and to all her dependen-
cies—to their American colonies and to Ireland. He did not
know whether the Member for Tipperary and other distin-
guished Members of that House were prepared, in the event of
any change, to give up the principles they hitherto maintained.
The Hon. Member for Tipperary, and others of great power
and eloquence, reserved their exertions for great gymnastic
occasions, but absented themselves when the real hardworking
business of the House was to be done. They had already, besides
the loss of life, expended six hundred thousand pounds in
the cause of Spain. He hoped, if lie should ask the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer for 20,0001. towards education, he
would not, after this, say he had no money. He was always
opposed to interference in the affairs of other countries, and
if the Tories should get into office he trusted they would act
upon the same principle to which they seemed now so
friendly. It was said in a certain publication that the Radical
Members voted upon every question, without considering whe-
ther the result would be to turn out Midisters or not, and
maintained the principle that they should have no relations
with other countries but those of commerce. Au Hon. Mem.
her behind asked how this could be done? He would refer
him for an answer to Van Buren's address, and to the example
of the United States of America. This was the principle
of the Radicals. He wished the world to know how many
would act up to it that night. The despotic Powers of Eu-
rope had as good a right to interfere in support of Don
Carlos as they bad in support of the Queen and constitution,

How did they know whether the Spaniards wanted a Con-
stitution? What was it to them who reigned in Spain?
Was it worth their while for such an object to embark in
this mad and extravagant career, which was neither inter-
vention nor co-operation, war nor peace, and should be
rather considered as a piratical and unprincipled crusade
against the free people of the Basque provinces ?—( Hear,
hear.) If they were at war let it be openly supported ; let a
fleet and army be sent out ; and let them fight their way to the
Pyrenees. They were told that the marine force only was
employed in the Queen's cause, but the people of England
would not be thus deceived. They well know that a military
force was smuggled into Spain under the name of Marines.
During all their proceedings in Spain to support a Constitu-
tion, Ministers did nothing for Canada, nothing for Ireland,
nothing anywhere, but kept their places.—( A laugh.) Three
nights had been now expended in this sort of bushfighting, and
the Noble Lord (Palmerston) had not attempted yet to make
his appearance. He seemed afraid to be hit. That was the
usual course of the Noble Lord. Question after question was
put, but nothing could be got out of him. He would not rise.
-,—(A laugh.) Why not say at once boldly what his policy
was. The Right Hon. Member for Tamworth (Sir R. Peel)
might attack him—but was there not an army on the same
benches to defend him ? He hoped the Noble Lord would at
length tell them what he meant. This was a war neither of
defence nor offence. It was nothing at all—time wasted in
party debate without any effect but to render Government less
respectable in the eye of the public than it was before.
Mr. C. FE RG USS ON then rose. The present Govern-
ment was charged by Hon. Gentlemen opposite with having
disgraced the country. Were they, then, who placed confi-
dence in that Government, to be taunted with a charge of in-
terested motives when they rose to defend it ? The Hon. and
Learned Gentleman appealed to the Members known as Radi-
cals in that House, and asked them whether they were pre-
pared, considering the principles they professed, to vote for
Ministers ? If they should vote for Ministers, what would be
the inference? They asked for no favour from the ,House.
They had been attacked—they defended themselves ; and if
the Radical Members, for many of whom lie entertained the
most sincere respect, saw in their conduct as regarded Spain
nothing deserving censure, would it be inconsistent in them to
vote for Ministers ? If, however, they thought the sole object of
Ministers was to retain power, then indeed they would have
some reason fur voting with the Hon. and Gallant Officer who
brought this motion forward. From the tone of the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman upon this and upon other occasions, it
would seem as if he wished to establish the reputation of being
the only honest man in the House.—(Hear, hear.) He seemed
to think that the country should never enter into any alliance.
This would be directly at variance with the whole policy of
their ancestors, whose principle it was to interfere in all great
Continental questions when a proper occasion called for in-
terference, and he trusted they would never shrink from so
important a duty. The question now before them was one of
the greatest importance, and he fully acquitted the Hon. and
Gallant Member who brought it forward of any sinister motive,
but he had no hesitation in saying that if it should be agreed
to the result would be to place one foot of Don Carlos on the
Throne of Spain. They were bound by the Quadruple
Treaty ; and if this motion should be carried, they must basely
abandon the Queen of Spain.—(Hear, hear.) He could not
concur in the doctrine laid down that there was no connection
between this Treaty and the Order in Council. This he
must deny. On the demise of Ferdinand, in September, 1833,
France and England seemed to run a race to see which would
be first in congratulating the Queen, and offering their aid to
maintain her rights. France appeared most zealous to main-
tain them. The Order in Council was made in favour of their
ally. Don Carlos, on the death of Ferdinand, raised the standard
of insurrection on the 24th of Oct., 1833, and it broke out in
one of the Basque provinces. If the Basques, therefore, had
since suffered all the horrors of war, who was to blame for it
but Don Carlos himself, who excited the insurrection ? This
;country did not make war upon the Basques; on the con-
trary, he believed there was no Englishman who would not be
most willing to Spare that ancient and brave people, and be
trusted that when peace was restored, England would 'still be
found willing to exert herself for the liberties of the Basques.
They had no choice, therefore, as to the seat of war. Thought
one of his own ancestors suffered for his adherence to the
Crown of England, still he did not the less admire the
bravery and constancy of those, however mistaken, who, from
a conviction of its justice, shed their blood in support of the
Stuarts. No one could blame the Basques for maintaining as
long as they could the cause they considered just. In the out- •
set of the treaty he would admit that Portugal was the great ,
object of consideration, but not exclusively so. It was clear ,
front the preamble that the circumstances of Spain were in the
contemplation of the contracting parties. Spain, however,
was brought more prominently forward in the additional
articles. But it was not overlooked in the original treaty, as
appeared by the following passage in the preamble:—
" The two later Sovereigns, taking into consideration the
interest with which the safety of tlfe Spanish monarchy must
always inspire them, and animated with the most ardent desire
for the restoration of peace both to the Peninsula and to
Europe, and his Britannic Majesty taking into further consi-
deration the special obligations which result from his ancient
alliance with Portugal, have consented to act as parties to
the said treaty."
Now, if the Spanish Monarchy and Spanish interests were not
intended to be protected, why were they, as was the fact, put
so prominently forward even in this first treaty ?—( Hear.)
That treaty went on to say that the object of the contracting
parties to it was not only the maintenance of peace in the Pe-
ninsula, but also in every other country in Europe. But the
peace of Europe depended upon the state of the Peninsula—
( Hear)—and if that portion of Europe was not in a state of
tranquillity, it would ever prove a bone of contention about
which other countries would be liable to dispute and contend.
( Hear.) It had also, he would contend, been ever considered
that there was no country in Europe in which England ought
to take so lively an interest as the kingdom of Portugal. The
security of that country the Right Hon. and Gallant Gen-
tleman opposite well knew was intimately connected with
the interests of Great Britain. This had been found to be
true during the late memorable war, and should similar
circumstances again occur, and France ever resume the posi- •
tion she then took up, in spite of the ridicule and taunts
of the Honourable and Learned Member for Bath, he would
say that nothing could be more for the advantage of this
country than a firm alliance with Portugal. (Cheers.) The
original treaty insisted on the expulsion of Don Carlos and
Don Miguel from the Portuguese dominions ; and this part
of it was most material, for it engaged the King of England
to " co-operate with France and other parties to the treaty
by the employment of a naval force in aid of the operations
to be undertaken in conformity with it by the troops of
Spain." Thus, then, there could be no doubt that as far as
'this first treaty was concerned it, was intended that a naval ,
force should be employed in co-operation with the military ,
force. But what said the second treaty?—( Hear.) If there
was any doubt as to the construction of the words " naval
force" in it, the House well knew that in construing Acts of
Parliament they were bound to read them one with the other.
If, then, that principle were applied to the case of these
treaties, thee were, he must say, bound by the rules of com-
mon sense to say that by them this country was pledged to
employ a naval force in co-operation with the military force
now acting in Spain.—( Hear, hear.) It had been said that
the Marines employed had gone sonic seven or eight miles in-
land in aid of the troops of Spain ; but would they not have
wished them to have done the same in aid of their own troops?
—( Hear, bear.) It was his opinion, however, that if it should
haveebeen necessary to send any number of Marines to. Spain,
this country was bound to do it.—(Hear, hear, hear.) An
lion. Gentleman lied, in the course of this debate, quoted from
a speech of Lord Melbourne, when Mr. Lamb, upon the
Foreign Enlistment Act. Now, what Mr. Lamb on the oc-
casion referred to had said was to the following effect :--
" That lie objected to the principle of the measure then pro-
posed, because, ill his opinion, the power of deciding the
question of peace or war belonged exclusively to the Crown,
and lie deprecated anything which had a tendency to take it
out of the power of the Crown and of his Majesty's Minis-
ters."—( Hear, hear, hear.) Between that case and the pre-
sent there was this difference, that Mr. Lamb then objected
to repeal the Foreign Enlistment Act, because it was in-
tended to be done against the will of the King's Ministers,
whereas now it had been done by the Ministers. The Right
Hon. and Gallant Gentleman in introducing this motion had
stated that the Legion could not possibly be longer maintained
in Spain. Ile had the greatest possible respect for the mili-
tary talent and general ability of the Right Hon. and Gallant
Officer, but he considered it in the highest degree unfeir not
to suffer General Evans and those who were smarting under
that stigma to have an opportunity of redeeming their reputa-
tion, if that reputation was injured.—( Hear, hear.) But the
Hon. Member for Chippenham had himself said last night
" I deny that the reputation of the British arms is tarnished."
But he (Mr. C. Fergusson) maintained that the chief object
of the motion was to show that their reputation was tarnished.
If it was even so, were there not hundreds of other occasions
on which they had been as much so ? He denied that the
service of the army, however, would have been dishonoured
by what had taken place, even if the Marines had not been
there and afforded them protection ; for he would contend that
the conduct of the Legion lied previously, been such as would
have reflected the highest honour upon any troops in the
world.—( Cheers.) But if, upon one unfortunate occasion,
they lied not chanced to have acted up to what was expected of
them, why were they to be deprived of the opportunity of
wiping off that stain, which he was convinced they would wipe
off on the very first occasion afforded them of doing so ?
( Cheers.) But what would be the consequence of withhold-
ing- that opportunity from them ? What would be the result
of their withdrawal from Spain ? Ought they to allow the
cause of Isabella to suffer, as it most undoubtedly would, by
the adoption of this motion ? They had entered into a treaty
with the Queen of Spain, and should they not allow these
troops a few short months, to redeem their character, if in-
jured ?—( Hear.) The morel effect of carry ing this motion
would be the probable prevention of the firm establishment of the
Queen's Government in Spain. The Right lion. Gentleman
teen stated that there were many cases in which B. dish troops
had been employed by foreign Powers, amongst which he in-
stanced the fact of Queen Elizabeth's having granted permis-
sion for 20,00 men to serve the Stites of Holland. The ce-

I
2 a
lebrated Claverhous nd many othei. able Generals, had
gained great experi ce by foreign service, and thereby sown
•he seeds of their subsequent greatness. Even the Duke of
Marlborough, than whom no greater General had since ex -
isted, saw his first service under Marshal Turenne.—( Hear, )
Mr. W. B. BA RING said that the question they had to
decide was, whether the House should add to the letter of the
Quadruple Treaty, or go beyond it, and thereby establish more
strongly by a vote of that House a system which, until then,
had never been pursued in this country by any political party.
—( Hear.) Was it to be denied that in opposing the 1,054
, ofthc present Government with regard to their interference
in the Spanish contest they were acting in opposition to the
principles of Mr. Fox, who always contended that interferon--e
in the internal disputes of foreign nations ever tended to exas-
perate them against the party so interfering ?—( Hear.) The
lion. Gentleman himself said that if they abandoned the cause
of Isabella, Don Carlos would soon be on the throne of Spain ;
but he was at a loss to discover on what principles those
Hon. Gentlemen who professed to be the advocates of the
people, should wish to allow a small minority to set up a King
against the great majority of the Spanish nation.—( hear.) The
real question was, whether the Legion should virtually be re-
called, by the Foreign Enlistment Act being repealed. lie
should cordially support the motion of the Right Honourable
Gentleman.
Mr. VILLIERS regretted that the Hon. Member for Bath
had fled the House after having selected such an opportunity
for an attack upon his friends:—( Hear, hear.) When he
bore in mind how that Hon. Member had attacked, ma-
ligned, and abandoned his party on this occasion, he was
sorry, he confessed, that the Hon. Member had not remained
in his place, to hear the language used with respect to his
speech by the Hon. Member for Winchester, who spoke after
him. He regretted the Hon. and Learned Member had
chosen the present occasion, before all others, to attack the
policy of his party—that he had selected this opportunity
for leaving them—that he had never raised his voice in that
strain before ; for, God knew, the Hon. Gentlemen opposite
had often enough afforded him ample scope for so doing had
he been that way disposed. They had brought the subject
again and again before the House, in every practicable form
and shape. He did think the lion. and Learned Member
was in a situation in which he was bound to afford his party
some explanation of his conduct in thus leaving them when
they most required his support.—(Hear, hear.) He (Mr.
Villier) would have been glad to have heard from . the
Hon. Member for Winchester on what pretence it was
that, by bringing forward this question, and protracting the
debate from night to night, they postponed the really im-
portant business of the country.—( Oh l) Yes, postponed
business deeply interesting to Ireland, England, and Scot-
land. Why by their long speeches had they put off
this debate from night to night, and thus precluded the dis-
cussion of the important question of Irish Poor Laws, and of
another constitutional question interesting to England ? He
had not yet heard any new ground alleged for reviving a
discussion already argued twice during the Session. It was
but a week since the Right lion. Baronet the Member for
Tamworth had hurled his biting sarcasms at the occupants
of the Treasury benches, when the sentiment most cheered by
he posterior benches on the other side was that nothing was
completed by Ministers—that every great question stood still.
The Right Hon. Baronet also said that, if the Government,
fin ling that they could not complete their measures, were to
resign, there was still energy enough in the country to com-
plete what they had begun. What was the meaning of all
these taunts? And why did lion. Members opposite, by their
long speeches, put it out of the power of the Government to
proceed ? When the question was before the House on a
former occasion the Legion had obtained some successes in
their gallant enterprise,' and they were tkerefore nerved to
bear the obloquy so profusely heaped upon them. But now
he admitted they had fallen victims to their ill-usage, and had,
it seemed, lost all heart. Now, therefore, was the moment
for lion. Gentlemen opposite to seize upon, in order to
trample on a fallen enemy. lion. Members opposite thought
now that the constitutional cause in Spain was declining, and
now therefore was in their opinion the tin 4 to strike the final
blow. He knew how easy it was to obtain from vulgar minds
condemnation of a broad principle from a misrepresentation
of a particular case. There might be said to be some
excuse for the Honourable Member for Sandwich, whose
enthusiasm on behalf of Don Carlos in the fall of life exceeded
any thing that might be expected from its prime—for him
there might be some excuse for supporting this motion, for, no,
doubt were to be carried by a large majority, there would be
results to content the lion. Member for Dover and the Hon.
Member for Sandwich. No doubt at Durango all would
prosper to their heart's content—no doubt the wheel and the
rack would be placed in repair.—(Oh !) But for all other
supporters of the motion no such excuse could be found, when
their conduct was divested of those motives which he had.
urged.—( Hear, hear.) To come, however, to the real giusen.
tion at issue--the purport of the Quadruple Treaty, and the
objects of its promoters. It did require defence, -for there
was certainly in the spirit and object of that treaty a deviation
from the principle which had been laid down as the basis of
the foreign policy of the country—that of non-interference in
the internal affairs of foreign States. Yet it seemed, to him
that the objection did come with a very bad grace from lion.
Gentlemen opposite, considering what course of foreign Policy
they had all their lives been engaged in supporting. The true
(inject of the principle of non-intervention was the avoidance
of the evils and dangers of war; but might not many instances
arise in which peace would ultimately become still more dan-
gerous? But the inconsistency of this line of argument was
glaring. Had not the Noble Lord, in the affair of the Adri-
anople Treaty, been complained of for not having interfered
enough ? And the same thing, had it not occurred in the case of
the Treaty of Unkiar Skelessi ? Had we not interfered in the
suppression of the slave trade ? Had we not done so successfully
to put a stop to the burning of Hindoo widows ? And if occasion
were to arise when Russia, availing herself of some confusion in
the United States of Aieerica, were to take advantage of it,
to endeavour to injure our commerce with the United States ;
would not such a case as this afford fair grounds for interven-
tion ? Nay, would it not imperatively he called for? He
protested, then, against an attempt being made to set up the
principle of non-intervention as one immutable, incapable of
extension to meet the exigencies of particular emergencies.—
( Hear, hear.) But for the intervention of England, Don
Carlos would not have been alive at this moment. The re-
turn of Don Carlos to Spain, and the countenance afforded to
hint by the Northern Powers, rendered it impossible for Eng-
land to refuse her assent to the additional articles for the pur-
pose of counteracting his influence. Previously .to those arti-
cles being signed no circumstance existed to prevent our
sending a regular force to Spain. When, therefore, the ar-
rangements of that treaty were made, the question was, what
would be the most efficient aid England could afford to the
cause of the Spanish Government ? It was then thought, and
he (Mr. Villiers) considered it justice, that naval co-operation
would be preferable, and that as the sending an armed regular
force into Spain would naturally give umbrage to the national
pride
of the Spanish people, it was expedient to allow the sub-
jects of this country to enter into the service of the Spanish
Government.--.g Cries of " Question.") He must, under
all the circumstances of the case, say, that this was nothing
e.ore nor less than a party motion, brought forward by the
lion. Gentleman opposite for the purpose of defeating the
progress of Reform in this country, and discouraging the cause
of liberty throughout Europe.—( Cries of " Oh, oh," and
laughter from the Opposition beaches, succeeded by loud
cries of " Hear, hear," from the Ministerial side of the House.)
Sir \V. FOLLETT said, the lion. Member who had just
sat down repeated an assertion which, in the course of the
debate, had been made by several Hon. Gentlemen on the
other side of the House, that this was a mere party question.
—( Cheers from the Ministerial benches.) He knew how easy
it was to make assertions ; and he was satisfied from the cheers
of the lion. Members opposite that they considered it politic
to make this assertion, with a view to the division to which
the House was about to come.—(Cheers.) But lie was equally
satisfied that if the lion. Members opposite had taken the
trouble to converse with persons out of that House they would
have been convinced that, however they might be split by party
—however they might differ with respect to domestic policy
and the changes contennAtted in the institutions of the coun-
try—he said, if they had taken this trouble he was satisfied
they would have foun I a strong and general opinion prevailing
that they (the Government) were wasting the blood and trea-
sure of the people of England in a cause in which they had no
concern, and for an object with whit h the national interest
and honour wile in no stay mixed up.—( Loud cheering.)
No one had said that insult had been offered to the Bri--
fish flog ; ro one had pointed out any motive to exist which,
could justify them in forgetting the sacrifices to be mado
in the fortunes of war, or embai king in a war in whiele
neither the national interest nor honour were at all in-
plicatel lie had heard no one say any such thing.—( Cheers. )
Now, what was the state of the facts ? Why, that they bad
British subjects in arms in Spain by the sanction of the Es .ecu-
tive Government, perishing by thousands, some in battle, with
persons who were not enemies of this country, and otheiss, and
by far the greater number, in consequence of the he reships
they had to endure, or the diseases superinduced by the de-
plorable situation in which they were placed by the eon duct of
the Spanish Government.—( Cheers.) He could.not eginceive
thy this was to be treated as a party question, and lie was
satisfied that the people of England did not regard it in any
such light.—(Cheers.) It. was, however, one that touciied the
interest and honour of this country nearly, and, therefoere, with
the permission of the House, he would call their attanition to
the grounds relied on as a defence by the I-lon. Members op-
posite. They had not told them that either the interest 'or the
honour of England was concerned : but their argutuea a was
this. He could not say that it was the argument of the
Members of the Cabinet, because none of them bad rspoken,
though he presumed it was. Their argument was -this :
It is too late for you discuss the policy or impoliey of the
Quadruple Treaty ; it is too late for you to discuss the
policy or impolicy of the additional articles founded on
that treaty. We have entered into that treaty, and agreed to-
those articles; and, therefore, as the Executive Govern-
ment brought tl:e subject forward, and House of °JIM-.
in • expressed no dissent upon it, you are bound by natieena e- m;
faith atin national honour to perform strictly the obligations
which you imposed upon yourselves." He was ready to anima
that this was a strong argument, and he would go feu-tiger and
say, that he was the last man in that House who would. .vote in
favour of any motion which, in his opinion, would ha ye rho
tendency to occasion any non-observance of either tu itionat
faith or honour.—( Cheers.) But the question was, would the:
treaty bear any such construction? It was said by tee Hon..
..rernbers oppoente--" Oh, you have no right to protest:. Against
tlie course vs ineli the Government have taken, bee ause the-
' Right lion. Baronet the Member for Tamworth, whets in ()Tice
was reedy to perform all that the treaty required.—(dc Bear,"
from the Ministerial benches.) lie was surprised. thsit the,
lion. and Learned Member for Tipperary should it cus ^ andl
taunt them with a statement that the Duke of Welli ngtone
1 when at the bead of the Foreign Department, had some out
50,000 muskets and bayonets to be used against the Barr
it was true that the Duke of Wellington had sent out a