The Sun.
London, England, 1839-03-09 00:00:00

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EVENING EDITION.

good feeling to the Government of France, would be the
last man in either House of Parliament to wish fur such a
thing, and would be the first to lament that any proceeding
of his should occasion Hear, hear.) He (Lord
Brougham) was also one of the last men who would wish
to cause or to see our pacific relations with the Govern-
ment of France nterrupted. However, the subject hid
been broached, and it would not tend to avoid that, or to
get over the difficulty, to attempt to bush it up, or to pass
the affair over without some explanation. He did not think
that a very brilliant exposition had been given by the Noble
Earl who had just sat down, but this he should wish to
know, bow long it was since Lieutenant Croke had arrived
in this country? If he had been here only a few dvys,
and was in a distant part of the country, that might have
occasioned some delay.

Lord MINTO—He has been here for more than a
month.

Lord BROUGHAM then said that was very odd, and
was very much calculated to make him Ohl that a suf£i-
c•ient explanation was not likely to be given.—( H..r,
hear.) He did not think that peace was likely to be prc-
d by the doctrine of his Noble Friend.—( Hear, hear.)
When an outrage was committed the uffenee arising Jr:An
!hat !Ass not to depend upon the intention.—( Hear, hear. )
He understood this was a very small vessel—a mere cutter,
or packet, or 10-gun brig.
Lord HARDWICKE—Four guns.
Lord BROUGHAM—Four guns; and therefore there
was no dishonour in her yielding to the superior fo,ce CI t
was opposed to her. But he must say, that if one man in.
stilted another, and then said it was not his intention to in-

suit, that would he a very unsatisfactorjgapology, unless
indeed it happened to be an act of an equivocal na.
ture—(Hear, hear)—and when everything depended oi
the intention. lie was sorry also to say that he did not,
observe anything satisfactory in the statement of the
Noble Earl, that upon another occasion, and in ptrfectly
different circumstances, when one of our ships was in dis-
tress, a French steam-boat assisted her. No doubt, tH•
boat would have helped any ship in such circumstai.c,,,::.
even if that ship had insulted it the day b,fore.—( Cheer, )
The mere-act of assisting a ship which was in ddliculty, d
not appear to him to be of great importance.—(
hear.) He had no manner of doubt, and he agreed xi,
his Noole Friend here, that if a proper representation had
been made to the Court of the Tuileries, from all he knew of
Count Mole, and above all from the high character rrf
Louis Philippe, he had- no doubt whatever, that as that
Royal Prince would be the last to suffer any insult to be
offcred to his own flag, he would be the last to allow an
insult to be offered to another. lie was quite sure that that
Royal Prince from his strict and high' sense of honour awl
justice, would be the first to give ample reparation for any
injury that might be sustained.

'Lord MELVILLE could not help regretting, fJr the
honour of the flag, that this humiliating transaction
had been allowed to remain in the state in which it had, for
so long a period, but he rejoiced to think, from the Noble
Earl's statement, th,t in the course of a few days now,
we might expect some satisfaction. Concurring with the
two Noble and Learned Lords who had already spoken ns
to the certainty that the French Government would not be
disposed to uphold any improper interference on the part
of an officer of theirs, but, on the contrary, be ready to
make every reasonable apology, he still thought, that ia
order to obtain that, it would have been better if we had
proceeded earlier.—( Hear, hear.) The packet had ar-
rived in thi‘ country about a month ago. The Lieutenant
must have kept a journal, and in the course of forty-eight,
hours that journal must have been received at the',kd:
niiralty. The moment it was seen that such a transaction
had taken place, if it had been obscurely detailed in that
journal it was the duty of the Admiralty, without delay, to
have called upon the commander of the vessel for a fuller
account, and which account would have been given. So
far from that having been the case, he untler..tood that that
explanation from the Lieutenant was not required until
within the last few days. _

Lord NIIN TO sa'd, that on referring to the journal, L 2
he had sail, it was very concise; but he had stated also
that the journal referred to a letter addressed from Vera
Cruz, which letter was about the same day-transmitted to the
Admiralty, at.d which was the foundation of the application to
her Maj,sty's Government desiring that some steps should be
taken on the sulject. But what he was anxious to have
under.nood was, that he had been in possession, rfOril the-
first mometlt, of the fact that a pilot was taken out of the

packet, and of the manner in which he was taken, but that
he had learnt, at the same time, from Commodore Dou-
glas that an apology had been rna.de by the Admiral. lie
had desired Lieut. Croke to give a more full and detailed
account of all his own conduct.
Lord MELVILLE said that all the information that
could be obtained from .Licut. Croke, might and c.aight to
have been obtained from him within a day. or two after his

arrival in this country. But they were told an appiicati:n
to the French Government had been made, because Ad.
mural Bacdiu was supposed to have made some apology to
Commodore Douglas, who arrived on the station s--ire
Hocks after the packet had left it.—( Hear, hear.) The
packet was an independent vessel, pursuing its own course.
under the 'alders of the Admiralty ; and it was the duty of
the Foreign office to have made an immediate representa-
tion to the Government of the transaction, indtr,en-
dent of any apology, or supposed apology, On the part
of the Admiral.—( Cheers.) It was impossible
foreign man of-war should make at: attack . •
man- ef.war, and take from on beard-- n

N•L

atttreueti an :lair was tuiparralleled. As to beit!,4 a '
small vessel, he wanted to know what light the FreUeli
man of-war had to take from on board of her a pilot
( Hear, bear.) If she was a MClTbßlitzurai, eac i 4. au
seized the ship, that would have been intelligibl. at
that they should attack the ship, take from on board ; L-cr
a pilot, and allow her to go away, was conduct perfectly
unheard of.—( Hear, hear.) He could not but think tha:,
if the whole case bad been sifted to the bottom, as it
should immediately have been, and that, too, totally inde-
pendent of any communication between the Admiral and the
Commodore, with w hom we had nothing to do--(Hear)
—and if a proper representation, made to the Government
of France, a proper apology would. been of ered,and
the British Parliament and the BritittiVetbilliy would have
been saved a great deal of
crneutst,iepnlateasisiaounn.:ef.wne
07,:v
absaenpiurtabcalcidesivi:e:rdd-;
sion, and humiliation, which they Ought riot to h4,'ve been
subjected to.—(Cheers.) He did hope that; in the course
from
ma ft'ohtev
Fl
e
days,rchsuGclol Government,
would satisfy the country.
The Duke of WELLINGTON said, that as the
Noble Earl opposite had stated that there were
crui,ers all the summer in the Gulf of Mexico, he wished
to ask, whether there was in reality any assistance ready to
be afforded by her Majesty's fleet to carry cff her Majesty's
subjects, or their property, from Vera Cruz, at the period
at which the attack was made upon San Juan de Ulloa by
the Pretieb Squadron ? or at the subsequent period, when
the attack was made by the same squadron on Vera Crtiz?
Lord M INTO said there were letters at the AdMiralty
from the officer in command before Vera Cruz at the
period of the attack, which stated that he had given what
assistance was tequired in removing British, French, and
other subjects from Vera Cruz ; in short, all those who
wished to be removed, and of whom a great number, in
particular of French, were removed. He did not under-
stand there were a great many English who thought it
necessary to call for assistance, but all who did received.
it ; and at that time there was a sloop of war before the
town, under the command of one of the most distinguished,
- officers in the service.

-The Duke of WELLINGTON said, that be had nt it
asked the question which had been answered by the Noble
Earl. The question he asked was, whether previous to I
or during the attack by the French squadron upon an i
Juan de Cilioa, or subsequently, and whether previous., or i
during, or subsequent to the attack by the same squadron I
upon Vera Cruz, her Majesty's fleet gave any assistatnee to i t
her Majesty's subjects residing in Vera Cruz, to enable
them to save themselves and their property front the 1:i
attack ?
Lord MINTO certainly meant, by what he said, to-co-
vey to the Noble Duke the information that there Wasna
very distinguished officer in command there, he meant
Captain Rock, of the Satellite, both during the attack,
subsequent to the attack, and previous to it.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE could add nothing to
the most satisfactory answer which his Noble Friend had
been enabled to give to the Noble Duke, by informing. 'aim
of the assistance which the Noble Duke conceived (ought
to have been rendered during the attack which bad ben
alluded to, and which was rendered at time it was
wanted, and in the manner thought satisfactory to all the
English parties concerned • and from which, therefore, no
detriment could be alleged have taken place from any
omission on the part of the Admiralty, or on the part of
her Majesty's Government He could add nothing to that,
because he thought the Noble Duke must feel the inquiry
had been most distinctly met. But -he could not allow
this conversation to pass, especially after the speech of the
Noble Earl who immediately preceded the Noble Duke,
and who bad presided for some time at the head of the
Admiralty, without adverting to the general topic df
tceeidiraracter and I
tLheis,rceoendveFrsraietniodniLelrlde
Benretiurgelhyam agreedt,
that
rw
iceith hoiusgNh
to
_lil Noble
not and
be satisfied with a mere belief of good intentionstiieut
obtainingßritishthe
NobleinsultLearnedtheb
Majesty's t could
diffi-
culty was that from the time ati which
lfor hern.ch Majesty';
joevsetryn' a.
s titi s f a ti
committedon, and.t.o iiielLeivloearfirryydoe, possible
Lord opposite Lyndhurst) bad chosen to bring for-
inoebnttainwe'denthtahteexp explanation, because
apprised, of the facts
iGvaor‘d.ertitswqnurersotien, it was. not possible
thateGeot
%,
ee:n.explanationcmn enit havebebeing
1 been
gee oeauepl dpareinsuocatdhothfa
ftveieire, bpweacirtnthii;ouublttaari
' ts of the explanation required o_ e
_rwhat had taken
pow.
by their own °facers, to enable them to answer any appli_
ipal:ric et
beingin South p
rtiende,riacsal
haenyd
mustWithoutth F
cation on the: part of her Majesty's Government. Ti,,,
Noble Earl who had spoken a minute ago had fairly od_
mittcd t'aat no tirao had been lost. To obtain that reps ra-
tion a communication had been made from the Pose;
_n_
offiee,, arid what was the result of that communicatior.'i
4 nas to produce a representation from Lord Granville to
Count iVlole—chat distinguished person to whom the No_
I: ble and Learned Lord bad alluded in terms that became
hiut ; and he would say , that he knew of
no nerson,
from a long and early acquaintance with that individual,.
troth, whose honour in any traLsaetion more perfect reliance
was to be placed.—( Hear, hear.) N:t 1,
•?-y< then having
thA feeling in common with the Noble Lorapp:.e
oos,,
I with
rege.rel to the personal honour of Count ',dole, ' '
what was the
,
answer made to Lord Granville? sc was this, that if auy
such unfortunate occurrence had. 'taken place, there would
Io every disposition to explain ar ,d repair it ; but that up to
that moment Count Mole had 1' ad no explanation from Ad-
miralßaudin on the subject.. 1. . his being only a few days ago
he would ask the Noble's:l4ra Learned Lord opposite, enter
mining the opinion lie: professed to entertain of Couat
Mole, whether it woald become Lord Granville to iira'-e
expressed any aisbelio in that assertion so distinctly ni:Cle,
or that that assertiah havinq been so made, it would have
been po',sible to have called on the French Government to
have 'made reparation, and io have tendered
explanations
of a trangaclio4 of which they had had no information. Ali
Lard Granvillsi could have done under those (:.1-? ,
eumstances bad been done by him.—( Hear, hear.)
lie had expressed an anxiety to be informedwhenever
that information bad been received by the French Govern-