The Sun.
London, England, 1839-08-02 00:00:00

?VENING EDITION.

to him, we are tired of the Session, and wish
eo into the country, it was only for the
Noble Lord to suggest to her Majesty a
prorogation, and down it would come the next
day. Under such circumstances what would become
of the orders of the House, and under what danger
would Mr. Pollack be placed ? There was an old adage
in a cookery book of " catch your hare and then
dress him," and he thought that might be very well
applied in the present instance to the House of Com-
mons. But supposing that they imprisoned Mr. Po-
lack for three weeks—which, according to present ap-
pearances, was the utmost extent to which they could
tHoeuests e, thefrmn Prorogationtaking
do—would that deter some attorney or barrister, be-
wup
similarandthe neaesta.rs—seni(
Ha. lies
bleingr oftior.e)
He did not know what thestate of business in the
Queen's Bench was at present ; but it might so happen
that in the interval alluded to a case might be brought
forward and decided,and would that House take upon itself
to re-argue a cute that had already been decided in the
Court of Queen's Bench ? Considering the imprac-
ticability et: the coarse that was proposed to be pur-
sued, he for one would not take the responsibility
of it, and he should therefore move as an amend-
ment a negative upon the resolution. He thought
that House had very little encouragement to claim
what rights they pleased, and in the present
instance, the fact of their giving their printers a right
to sell, prevented them from holding the doctrine any
longer that what they had done was for their own
convenience, and for the preservation of their own rights.
Having obtained the decision of the Court of Queen's
Bench it was too late to say that that decision was
wrong, and that the House would continue in the course
which had been pronounced to be illegal by the highest
tribunal in the country. He believed the House woreld
be defeated in the present case, and although he was
aware that he should be left in a considerable minority,
he certainly felt it his duty to take the opinion of
the House on the subject.
Sir R. PEEL said that when the question was last
before the House, a proposal was made that they should
take a course tantamount to the committal of the She-
riff for levying the fine inflicted on Mr. Hansard ; but
having permitted the Attorney-General to proceed and
the Court to decide, he considered that it would
be unjust to inflict punishment on a merely
ministerial cdficer.—(Hear, hear.) But he then
advised the House, if another case should occur, not to
appeal to the Queen's Bench, but to assume the vindi-
cation of their own privileges—(Hear)—which course
appeared to have received the sanction even of the Court
in the decision which it had come to. He, therefore,
asked whether they ought to permit Messrs.
Hansard again to plead, or to determine on the
vindication their own privileges?—(Hear, hear.)
The House of Lords, in printing their Report, had taken
the course which it was suggested this House should
take, that of not giving the mimes of the parties. They
had excluded the name of Mr. Polack, and contented
themselves with giving the initials J. S. P. ; but
inasmuch as Mr. Polack had been a witness before
the Committee, and inasmuch as there was no other
witness whose tiame bsgan with a P., it was quite
clear that the wise precaution of the House c
Lords was of no avail, as it could refer to no other than
Mr. Polack.—(;Tear, hear, and a laugh.) The in-
quiry had not been to enable the House of Lords
to determine what course they should pursue in
particular ease, lint to enable them to determin some
e what
general policy thee should adopt
with respect to
the colonizstion of :dew Zealand. And what he wished
to observe from ties was, that the inquiry would be use-
less if it were only fbr the information of the Houses of
Lords end Cemiaons.—( Loud cries of " Hear, hear.")
The quintien was whether Parliament should encourage •
emigration or not, and if thes' were not to give to future
emigrants the evidence upon the subject, how is it
sible they coull fulfil their duties as the Grand In pos-
quest
of the snior] ? It the inicnnation were confined to the
Members of Parliameet, who probably did not intend to
emigrate to New Zealand—(Loud laughter)—it
would be perfectly useless. The inquiry was directed
into the means of advancing civilization, and into the
general state of the islatel—and how could this in-
formation b' available for the object for which
it was intended, if it were not communicated to the
public? Mr. Polack had, in his evidence, made very
strong statements, doubtless what he considered to
be the truth. Her had stated, for instance, that the
slaves in New Zealand were given to lying. Some
persons contradicted this, whereupon Mr. Polack brings
an action for libel. One of the most important branches
of the inquiry had been as to the state of morality in
the island. Mr. Polack was asked if the native popu-
lation had decreased ? He had answered Yes ; and
the principal cause was, not war, but infanticide, stating
that the women constantly destroyed their children.
Then there were other questions as to the customs of
property, hereditary succession, and so on—all topics
deeply interesting to emigrants, and. which would be
utterly useless if not communicated to the public.
How could they conduct any inquiry with advantage to
the public, if the Court of Queen's Bench were to pre-
vent-them from publishing those inquiries. Now, how
very important was it to the intending emigrant to
know the character of the people of the country to
which he intended to go. In his evidence, Mr. Polack
said the natives of New Zealand were very quarrelsome ;
that they quarrelled if a pig passed over a cemetery ;
in fact, that they went to war for the smallest offence ; ,
that they were children on the subject. Well, another
witness was called, and was asked if he knew Pollack
in New Zealand ?He said—No ; but, in answer to
other questions, he said he had known him in New
South Wales., and, from several facts he knew respect-
ing him, he would not believe him upon his oath.
(Cheers.) Now, should emigrants know, or not
know, the character of those upon whose testimony
they were to rely. In what situation was the Imperial 1
Parliament to be placed as the grand inquest of the na-
tion, if the whole of their inquiries were to be co:Abed to themselves. The question of sale made no dill
in the question, according' to the decision of the Q eeence
Queen
Bench ; they said the publication was the
offenceo
that his Right Hon. Friend could not safe/y rely u, spon
the difference between the, practice of the two Houses.
The real tact was, that a publication by order of the
House of Commons nisde the publication a privileged
one—the moment they determined to publish or order
a publication, the mariner in which it was done was
nothing—it was privileged. What course, then, were
they to pursue ? Was it possible to have a stronger
case for dernonstratine that the privilege of publication
was perfectly useless unless they had power'to give it to
the public-a-(Cheers)—of what use could it be to the
intended ernigrant if the information contained in the
Report were confined to Members ? It, no doubt, was
for the House to determine what should be published ;
some things it might not be expedient to publish, that
was for them to determine ; the moment it was left
to another tribunal, that House became an inferior body,
—(Cheers.) All he contended for was, that the House
must hare the power of determining what evidence be-
fine them it was for the benefit of the community to
know, and the moment they determined that it should
be published then it became privileged, and they must
take care that no extrinsic autlority exercised any
jurisdiction whatever over it.—(Hear, hear, bear.)
What should they do ? should they direct Messrs.
Hansard again to plead ? They bad the decision of
the Court of Queen's Bench against them. Should
they submit to its authority? In that case they would
abdicate at once, and for ever, the right of publication ;
the other course was the one suggested by the Noble
fLord, which was distinguished by its moderation and
orbearance ; they would not proceed at once to act
upon because, as he imagined,
they
y had
theresolution
ordered
the
Attorney-General7,
to plead in the
former ease, but they gave notice that henceforth they
intended to assume to themselves the vindication of their
own privileges, and punish by their own authority all
those who were guilty of any infraction of them.—
(Loud cheers.) He thought the people would per-
ceive that this vindication of this privilege was not only
not taken from pride or private interest, but was so en-
tirely intermingled with their public functions that its
possession was absolutely necessary to the effective dis-
charge of their duties. He thought the proposition of
the Noble Lord was calculated to effect this object.
Most of the Judges had admitted that they were to
discharge of their proper f •
possession of every privilege which was absolutely ne-
cessary for the aunctions, and
if any person committed a Contempt, they might
uaensdti°lC.:'.ourtAs ohfighlegal autho-
punish him by the exercise of their own authority, which
socalledletudingeq,
rity had laid it down, that in cases of contempt the
Common Law
could not interfere. That would be the most effec-
tual course for them to adopt, and having exercised that
could
function, Courts of Law could not interfere. He thought
PV:I Its tbhee
that no one could complain of any undue exercise of this
authority. They
House
They had had recourse, in the first place,
to Courts of Law, and they now exercised that power
in vindication of a privilege which was essential to the
performance of their duties. He thought by pursuing
this course they should have the support of the people
of this country in vindication of their privileges ; but,
he that as it might, they would not have proved them.
selves traitors to those functions which had been en-
trusted to them by the people of England, and that,
after all, he apprehended, was the vital consideration.
Sir. S. LUSHINGTON concurred most cordially in
all the sentiments that lied been expressed by the Right
Hon. Baronet, but there appeared to him some observa-
tions of the Hon. Baronet the Member for Oxford that
required notice. He had only looked to one side of
the question, and had not considered what the conse.
quenccs would he of not acceding to the resolution.
Supposing the House did not adopt the resolution, in
what situation, he would ask, would their printer be
placed ? Suppose an action was brought
against him,
it . was he to defend If he did not, what would be
Wh
damages?
.y the judgment
the amount of the
being allowed to go by default, there not being the
slightest deform thousands might be given ae damages.
But suppose the other course to be adopted—suppose
the prin
• ter defended the action, and put in a justifica-
tion, that was the only other course that could ho
adopted. What would be the consequence ? Why,
the very case they were now discussing..-that of having