The Sun.
London, England, 1863-07-15 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, JULY 15, 1863

ARMY.

In reply to Mr. CONINGHAM,
Sir C. WOOD said that already certain improvements had
been introduced into the arrangements for preserving the
health of our Indian army, and that still more effective mea-
sures remained to be taken in pursuance of the recommen-
dations of the sanitary commision.
THE CHANNEL FLEET.

Sir H. BRUCE asked whether •the Channel fleet would
be permitted to anchor for a few days in Loch Foyle during
their cruise this summer.
Lord C. PAUET said that the magnificent Channel
squadron, as he might justly designate it, consisting as it
did of five iron plates, was now in progress round the north
of Scotland ; and he hoped it would touch at the principal
ports, weather permitting, as-the admiral had discretion to
do so. So possibly the port alluded to by the lion, baronet
would receive a visit.
THE CHURCH BUILDING AND NEW PARISHES
ACT AMENDMENT BILL.

In reply to Mr. HADFIELD,
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL was understood to say
that the Government did not intend to proceed with this
bill, but in moving the discharge of the order he would
make a statement on the subject.
IRISH LAW AND EQUITY COMMISSION.;

In reply to Mr. LONOFIELD,
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said the report of the
Irish Law and Equity Commissioners could be laid upon
the table before the end of next week.

THE INDIAN COUNCIL.

Mr. A. MILLS proceeded to call attention to the consi

tution of the Secretary of State for India, and to move an
address to the Crown for the appointment of a Royal com-
miseion to inquire and report whether any and what altera-

tions might be advantageously adopted in the Home Go-
vernment of India, as constituted by the act 21 and 22 Vic.,
c. 106. He would assume that the Government had acted
right with regard to the amalgamation of the Indian army
with the Imperial forces, but still that very act proved the
impotency of the Indian Council, all the members of which
were opposed to amalgamation. The noble lord at the head
of the Government had moved a clause the object of which
was to make it not only optional, but incumbent on Parlia-
ment to reconsider the constitution of the Council, and this
view was supported at the time by Lord Russell, Mr. Wilson
then a member of that house), Mr. Bright, and many other
members who had given special attention to Indian ques-
tions. The Secretary of State for India might separate himself
from his council whenever he pleased and reject the counsel
of the men appointed to advise him; and, while he acted
upon his own responsibility, neither Parliament nor the
country knew anything about what he was doing. He would
not suggest any remedy for what he deemed to be
evil in the system of administering the affairs of India ; but
would simply ask the house and the Government to do what
the noble lord at the head of the Government had said at
the time the measure for the appointment of the Indian
Council was under discussion, namely, that after the lapse
of five years it would be incumbent upon Parliament to re-
consider the matter,
Mr, BAILEYa great
seconded the motion. it appeared to him,

having regard to the condition of Lancashire, that' some
changes were necesssary with regard to the administration
of the 9ffairs of India. He believed great discrepancies
existedl between the services in India, and that the medical
service, had good ground for complaining of inadequate
rewards. He hoped the Minister of India would take a
considerate view of the proposition of his hon. friend, brought
forwari in so moderate a manner; and as it was too late to
do anything in the present session, that the matter would
be kepi in view during the recess, it() that some measure
might the introduced next year which would lay the basis
for the' welfare of India, and at the same time provide for
the commercial prosperity of the people at home.
Sir C. WOOD said, with regard to what had fallen from
the hon. gentleman who had just eat down, he thought he
had distinctly stated on a former occasion what had been
done by the Governmcnt of India, and that nothing had
been omitted which was deemed to be of advantage to the
people of India and to the commercial benefit of this country.
Whatever had been done had been done with the entire ap-
proval of a large majority of the council ; and the only
question upon which a difference of opinion took place
was with reference to the sale of waste lands. The hon.
member opposite had said that he might be asked why he
had brought forward the motion, and it seemed to him that
the hon. member had good reason for patting the question,
as he had not advanced one argument in support of it. The
hon. member had not instanced one fault, one case of ne-
glect; but, on the contrary, had stated that he did not im-
pute any blame for the non-performance of duty either to
himself or the council over which he had the honour to pre.
side, The only reasons given in support of the motion were
the opinions of certain members of that house on a former
occasion. But after the experience which he now possessed,
he could only say that he had every reason to be satisfied
with the number and constitution of the present council;
and he was glad to have that opportunity of expressing the
obligations he was under to those gentlemen who, though
having been members of the old council, and being placed
in a difficult position, had yet worked in a cordial manner
in the administration of the affairs of India; and the coun
cil themselves were also satisfied with the manner in which
things were conducted. The noble lord opposite, who was
the author of the bill appointing the council, had stated that
the Minister of India was to be surrounded by those mem-
bers of the council who were men of great experience, and
who could give him the best advice; but still that the Mini-
ster would be bound in every case to act upon his own single
and individual responsibility. (Hear.) He had followed the
example of the noble lord, and claimed the right of taking
or not taking the advice of the council, and acting upon his
own responsibility: Did the hon. member mean to say that
his Parliamentary liberty was to be fettered, and that he was
to be prevented from bringing forward any measure which
he thought to be for the good of the country, because he
differed from his own council ? The amalgamation of the
Indian army was not a purely Indian question, but an Im-
perial question, and, although the council were opposed to
the measure, still it was supported by a large Parliamentary
majority, and proved successful. (No, no, from Col. Sykes.)
He did not expect the hon. and gallant gentleman to con-
cur in that opinion ; but it could not be denied that Par-
liament had approved of the measure. He could only say
that he was satisfied with the council, and that it would
be impossible for the Secretary of State to go on without
the council.

Col. SYKES said the right hon gentleman had himself
fully established the fact, that upon a question affecting the
interests of several thousand officers he had set at nought
the unanimous opinion of the council, although they were
to be his advisers and mentors upon all
questions relating to
India. He could tell the right hon. gentleman that the
amalgamation of the Indian army with the Imperial forces
was producing a feeling of rankling discontent in India,
and the present system might, at some future day, lead to a
mutiny or some other terrible convulsion in India. The lion.
and gallant member then contrasted the old system under
the Court of Directors with the present council, and said
that while every member of the old board could give notice
of motion and discuss any question he thought proper, like
members of that house, the existing council could inidate
nothing, but were ruled absolutely by the Secretary of
State, who in his way was as great a despot as Alexander or
Darius.

Sir E. COLEBROOKE said he would be willing to
strengthen the council, and that they should be allowed to
be elected members of Parliament, although he was not
quite sure but that this might have a contrary effect. At
present it could not be denied but that the right hon, gen-
tleman had everything his own way in the council, for he
was backed by a strong Government, at the head of which
was the noble viscount, who enjoyed so much popularity.
But there might not be .a strong Government always in
power, and in this case he could suppose the council would
rise in importance and pessess greater influence.
Lord STANLEY said the questions proposed to be raised
were not questions of detail, but questions of general policy,
upon which the house had expressed a deliberate opinion five
years ago ; and inasmuch as they were all matters for full
debate by that house, and not by a select body of gentle-
men, he hoped the motion would not be pressed.
Mr. KINNAIRD said that after the opinions that had
been expressed, his hon. friend would withdraw his motion.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY also thought that a commission
was not desirable, and asked whether, when the Secretary
of State for India differed from his council, he recorded the
grounds for his dissent in writing ?
Sir C. WOOD said there was no obligation upon the Se-
cretary of State or any member of the council to state the
reasons for his opinions
upon any question, though he might
occasionally have done so.
Mr. MILLS then withdrew his motion.
ARMY PRIZE PROPERTY.
Col. NORTH then rose to move an address to her Ma-
jesty, praying for a royal commission to inquire into the
realisation of army prize property, and its mode of distribu-
tion, and into the cause of the extraordinary delays which
had in most eases occurred in its distribution to the captors,
with a view to a remedy for the same. The hon. and gal-
lant colonel then alluded to the enormous delays that had
occurred in the distribution of the prize money from India,
injury
8:1 wasi
i lg t done
e t rtuot h theof t
which, in some cases, to the disgust of the army, had been
years that not one-fifth of the rightful
kept back so many
claimants survived. Wear') The amount of unclaimed
prize money no, in hand was no less than £1,163,339, and
the interest on it was £253,587, all of which ought to have
been divided amongst those entitled to it long ago. He much
regretted to find that £556,752 out of that fund had been
He thought that those were not proper
applied to Chelsea Hospital, and £40,000 for army school-
masters' buildings•
appropriations of the money
censure, and,f secondly, because it did
(A laugh.) Lord PALMERbTON said that her Majesty's Govern-
ment had no objection to accede to the motion of the
hon, and gallant officer, because they thought it might
prove very advantageous in
thebword " extraordinary" from
the terns of the motion ; ecause, in the first place,
He had
was distributed, that the delay was
would therefore probably be of
it seemed to imply
not in truth represent the act.
()Den felt the
hSeartymiceattbeyr, tbhee-
hinillefaet, the more generally the reasons for
delays in sharing the Prize-money, but whenever he had at-
tempted to inquire into the matter he had always been met
by the reply, that there were so many things requisite to be
Yquiry
cud
aonuna
seveob: eidffaoibrt theunavoidable.
ereAz money
great advantage in
it were known the better. One great evil of the delay in
distributing the prize-money were that the claimants were
disposed to sell their claims for a small present payment, so
that when it came to be paidwen
at last, the bulk of it '
who made a large went to
a lot of speculators, _ profit it. It would be
s
an object with her Majesty'Government to see that tale
cocommission was composed of such elements of information
and authority as should render it satisfactory to the house(Haar.)
and to the country.
Sir S. NORTLICOTE— The noble lord would not forget
to take into consideration the necessity for some legal and
properly constituted tribunal to settle questions of disputed
claims amongst officers.
Sir C. WOOD complained that the hon. baronet had im-
properly gone into the merits of the Kirwes and Bandaprize-money question upon the motion before the house,
after the noble lord at the head of the Government had
spoken, which precluded him from replying to the statements
the hon. baronet had made, instead of confining himself to
the proposition with which he commenced his speech.
The motion as amended, by striking out the word " ex-
before
traordivary " " delay," was then agreed to.