The Sun.
London, England, 1839-02-06 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, 'WEDNESDAY, FEBRUAR' 6, 1838:

.44
lie°l state
Hod that over d aain; and the former leader
use had assenantedover to itg more than once. Indeed it
- etas notorious that Lord Althorp maintained that it was
%la
a very moderate measure. He limited to know whelv
euippect had been entered into—in what hole and
toiler it had been concluded ? end . where was the re-
tee;
ti of it ?—(lRar, hear.) Bet even granting that
trap!
tl'n' es such an arrangement, he did not yet despair
ard bri."ging the Noble Lord round to the
conclusion he
ennie to.—( A laugh.) If be wanted a precedent
for it, let them look at the appropriation clause of last
19'r•--(Much langhter.) Year after year, for three years,
41 they not before the notion swear allegieeee to what
htlie,y
beepedcall that great principle ?—( Hear, bear.). They:
Proub 41 told that it was a great principle, and it eras a
sight to see ;Meat men struggling thy it. They all
thew the fate of that greet principle. He need not remind
e Reuse of it It was too disgraceful and too painful.—
e.‘ll''',, It
After. that, let them not talk to him of
fo'?' ciaepeet entered into with regard to the finality of
lit measure. ,
Her Maieete's Ministers could not deny that
`'Y bed stated that ri:pre'..sentetion, and not nomination,
assnobject of the% Hilt lie challenged any
t Gentle-
te rise in that ILueo end deity that noniinatioil
I,,intl exist. That many Met-doers were not returned
t..eittiliyidisals. who 'were Members of the ether House,
'at the same
,system vies not continued as under the
tlee,e'tologlimongerine, system. If tid e euuld not be deni▪
ed,
rt:l Let the Noble Lord's audio' ity for saying that this
111ili final measure ? The Noble Lord, in a speech
1114. re 1" 1832 (it .was, to be sure, on an occasion when
they a 143 a sort of doubt, after Earl Grey resigned, who-
' eat th° Tories would not accept the Government and
„iititeet the Reform Act) when of course be was taunted
ebie,wneensisteney, and when he was reminded of a work
td,„ a he had written on the British Constitution, and
lie °las only for partial disfranchisernent—( Hear,
kft,),e7o that occasion the Noble Lord said that if the
that then granted did not prevent- direct nomination iu
lir 'IOUs; the seeds of further reasonable and neces-
ezr°furni would be sown. He asked if there was riot
t nomination in that House ? if it was
_denied, he
teat.l.Prove it at the bar of the House, and there were
'tyiei°listituencies 'who would rather be -.without the frau-
fee'St'au 1'; as they felt themselves, degraded in having
11 sieie "atehise used as it was by Members of the other
lat, • 'le did not complain of that alone, they must not only
kr-eat:Alter Schedule A. but also an equalization of the
tiew lail
lits'4enev• This was not the time for entering into any
" figu-es upon the subject.—(Hear, hear, from
te J• Russ ell: He had taken six large boroughs and
r 444,1°"e5• The ten small ones returned twenty Mem-
ti an' the six large ones only 12. They were West-
t. L-st°, Liverpool, Finsbury, Tower Hamlets, Marylehone,
West-
it
11,470'3"ebester, and the population of these boroughs was
a k '479, and they paid 1,178,7001. of assessed taxes—the
e`l'4ll boroughs, namely, Harwich, Bedford, Chippen-
e -,,' Abingdon Totness, Scarborough, Tavistocla Hunt-
slid tee oth, re (the names of which we did notcatch)
ziesie?,°Pillation of 35,160, and they paid 13,0201. of as-
Nee Hear, hear.) When the people saw state-
fire ?rtes that sort, was it likely that they ought to be saris_
the (Cries of " Hear, hear.") He believed, however,
Ifse;;tinaation did not preponderate at that side of the
to f
; but it would be invidious, at the present moment,
ihaaer to Pa rticulare and he would therefore refrain from
koe s°. Whet be the new arguments against his
see lie was at a lois to know. When his Hon. Friend
tlaeast°league proposed his amendment to the Address on
(leeasion, i appeal was made to the gallantry and
'ir.''4,4°° of the House, and not without avail, as being
'oalll-°` Perliament of the new Queen, but that appeal
11157 Serve either Ministers or Reformers now. Unless
hey
to be told that, dining the present reign, the
Rees eoannons was never to approach the Throne,
"s the measured terms of Ministerial adulation, now
iteeti proper time.—( Hear, bear.) Where the old
tiareel 'rlimentary pretence of this not being a seasonable
thzt it't, might be revived he knew not, but he contended
"c 4 never out of season to do justice. The people
las just as well as that House, that to put things off to a
ittieureble seiwon" in Parliamentary language, meant
fi and de.insiou —(Cheers and laughter.) They
th `rell-w in coin ' ith the Crown, and there is
mitineation ,
4ft:ell' win they ought not to do Justice to tne people
Kee !of that evening's debate would be an index to the
ere s-e°` 4ho were their friends—who were real, and who
41staC'in Reformers—who evere finality, and who were
1442;-114Y men.—( Laughter.) Ho did not ask them to
14-4; themsoives to any details.—( Loud cries of
e7ecre-e'tletr.") He asked them merely to acknowledge
~°llld raked manifold grievances of the people ; and he
titters ~, the liberty of warning her Majesty's
f',Nee !hat the present might be the last hour of their
ey at'teet:be country would know after to-night whether
caret t Lined to advance or resist Reform—whether they
(cetitete° govern the country by force or affection. Sir,
teiwayee'fil' the lion. Member), they may increase their
1714 1 teirtYll May overrun the country 'with their police—
" 4
,5e
Ype .
ern that by such ens these, althou tey
otle
a temporary quiem a t, theyas will not restoregh
to the
th, either the confidence or the affections of the people.
.1 4;4;1%) I would beg to remind Hon. Gentlemen of an
re. '"g, that " nothing is more certain than death ;"
aenwottld say that nothing is more uncertain than
te 41k of our lives. In the changes and unsettled
th '"os Parties and politics, gentlemen may be called
.et
„et. 'eau they expected to the hustings to account for
.14;4ewardship and their votes.—( Laughter, and cries of
"It th;:,, hear.") Let me therefore entreat them, not only
acirawn account, but as they value the rights of-pro-
ae-e4114 as they value the institutions of this country, to
Iheytime and by their firmness and independence
lin
ee g prove to the country that the people are wrong
Zals ' describe you not only ass the mere insignificant
,Ittitee 4 Court, -but the hirelings of the present Adman,▪ -
ej--, (Hear, hear.) I would say to the Government,
teem; twe entreat you to assent to this amendment which
11°t alt `:"t to Propose, and prove to the people that you are
tal 'tether deaf to their cries or indifferent to their just
Lthe, goieb. Liable demands.—( Hear, bear.) I thank
Tead 'le for the patience with which they have
kk I"' while I have performed
.a painful task.
of Adit that this motion should be considered apart from
the only repose to add these words! at the end
th
hasa3t paragraplip: " And to assure her Majesty that
k32endinent of the repreaentative system enacted in
4'411 (113aPpointed her Atlajesty's pele, and as that
ure 13 not
and cannot be final, her, Majesty's,. faithful
repo will take into their early consideration, the fur-
"est, h eta of the Commons House of Parliament"—
l?t'11%
• ere `d, else Veltherk rose to second the motion of his Hon.
krae ber for Finsbury.---( In Consequence of. a.
?beer ttetee, of Members leaving the House, it was with
laseoll4Y we heard the Honourable Member's
eeetia*) He expressed his sense of the obligation
hen ireet i to the House for allowing them to bring
at tit nportant subject under their attention, and
tilt
b`9° absolute necessity of such a motion
stelae •n absolute Made at the commencement of the present
ail Prjeld Pariliament. The terms. in which his Honour-
'44 the tune ao made the motion were most appropriate,
3litetio he had selected for making it was the. most
11'0 had h'tt had
he could have selected.—( Hear, hear.)
'into' Psi 4,41 on the Treasury Bench a cheer when his
~ouiFriend stated that it was not his intention to enter
rant d 1104 why, if he had entered into details, he
Ist Preitid jeen told from the very same quarter, that he
111e,44,115 the question, and his principle would have.
itselftikg's -" on the supposed difference of details.
titti to °llourable Friend called on the House to pledge
tetr,lncPle, and they had selected for doing so a
th-a'taPnropriate for laying down those principles.
4tici Who Were Many objections had been raised by Gentle-
ekt4 he bod not desirous of taking part in the discussion,
Wag alLito thebeien told by some Hon. Members since he
et~xcel! 'Oll5O, that the motion of his Hon. • Friend
ti 440 e, too etnt motion of itself, but was wrong in poi▪
nt
taehtllotien' that it ought to have been made a substan-
licrrtiee' which they would then have great pleasure in-
h• d
th 4ea and heard a comparison drawn between
Oth that introduced by another Hon. Friend of
Member for Finsbury, at the commencement
t:).74a, per,ssi°n• Now he would beg -to remind the
°t tee''lenlerly his side of the House, for he did not
~hetc as l'hth'r side would ps • much attention to it, that
-0 sort of
chit -as, es .analogy between the two motions.
eecetio 'is lion. Friend had very properly said on
wea,te4 to telea,dh,POSl•tioll to avoid division upon the first
4t Nose° "c Queen on her accession to the throne. There
its ast Cr,v a feeling that her Majesty's Ministers wore
t,he e4sd from what they had always represented
theß4ter)-"lrnels a hostile Court—(Hear, hear, and
tetir3 N'"od it was thought that they appeared before
Nethat t°..',lllheri 1837, for the first time as free agents,ose
isterrife "tli.et they would lay before them. de
proposed
ord
that ersecelcl" policy, before anything like dictation
ethi see,4B Were attempted. That time bad gone e...-
,4440t11t th 0 existed no longer. The course of policy
Neellike" Government intended to pursue had been
!.le"te Lord distinctly as words could announce it, by the
An
41" Who in-that House rep,ozentoct the feelings-Ir-
tif They knew what they had to expect. They
frearieletiPhat they had to deal with ; and the Commons
Wh4, the-"e 'Toro now called upon to assent to, or dissent
kelt vet,"°Lliee which the 'Government had laid down.oe
Lestl"t Policy ? What was tile declaration f. th
thsi,Yil itW at the commencement
`all
the last Session?
~4111p3n03 a declaration against all further organic
the w 33 a declaration against all those changes
froki4red Tajority of the supporters of Reform had
to which ott essentially necessary—it was. a policy__in
atwtr. he stated nothing should induce him
% th 4a Member of the Cabinet ; and they must
t;1) Noble Lord still adhered to it. It appeared
'i4e44,,°1 the c)-73 the meeting of another Parliament, the
Refer of her present Majesty, and the seventh
the eioree • d'
Nato Hotee 13111 teas carried, that it was incumbent
of ,o.i tO
I 'aY whether they adhered or not to_
those atit'd
ueY which the Noble Lord had declared be
Addrel:re In the Reform Parliament the moving
were
thOlnsortertit'lad always been considered as the legiti-
IN there
1)1ii
14,11 N 0
for enterin,g into such a discussion
lay 'natter what the alleged grievance
tis a'OUlll
d WIC
alssnys found in that Ho
would
stand by their principles,
tC4* Wn br
l'l4t ir,htli the, , "115' in the face of the country, and
'h'ateicitith• at teo-113`0° a, division, itnecessa.ry. He was aware
',cry different doctrines had been pro-
(if ttliat :"eY had always heard of the great unanimity
hski3lei 41.° Prevail in'.voting an address to the Crown,
tl,)()
like dissension in their
a.he ei°d they 1 sunoroi themselves to be bound
teilr.t the phrin‘;eibl!t,iet.. They had never dared honestly.
ty theittlerted elsi Lt.! in that House which they had um-
% the votes thesewhere.. and had never dared to support
re caoie, e sentiments which recommended them
ittipr?seet.l coriatituencies whom they professed
1;i), qelicacieB“l the unreformed Parliament there were le, while or that kiud, there was no talk of unani-
icl'ilie„Nierabl'iislatlimitY was impos3ll3lo,___( Hear, hear.)
i'4lFt7' 4hetii were bound to support their individual
rho for e's", Ought to thank the Hon. Member for
ehi .i 0 e9triead ••ierinc geyee th a• os
einitv of record.
tb, °Pulioas h °- f manner
e con_e t e most soiemn anu
.sn•ma
LIN had ta:,‘"tution allowed. In his opinion his Hon.
thin,,B"" ilia Proper course to put an end to a
otq told °,_xtremely discreditable to the Liberal party.
,41selt the tueni to distinguish between an Address re-
trVY
41aQht
to th of the Treasury Bench and an
tbt i 1 `datablecontaining, as he said, some
eeet,ieeetl:uths,
acceptation out of doors, His Hon.

l'i lend had very properly abstained from alluding to any of
those paragraphs in the Speech on which there might be
any difference of opinion relative to foreign policy,
and had directed himself entirely to the home policy of the
(4evernment—to that policy to which their attention was
tailed by the paragraph in the Speech which alluded to the
pace of the manufacturing districts, and which called on
the Howse to support the Crown in the attempt to counter-
act certain movements. He admitted the justice of the ap-
peal, but he would ask the House whether it was prepared
to deal with them without inquiring into the causes from
n !dell those movements had originated. Whit were those
causes ? He could ascribe the agitation which existed to
nothing else but disappointment—to a deep disappointment
of the working of the Reform Bill—and to those expecte-
liens held out by the Government on which his Hon. Friend
liad rested the propriety of his motion._(Hear.) It was
a feeling which, if they looked to the whole course of their
Legielatton, they will find to be natural, necessary, and just.
`That had been the course of that Legislation? What
lied they done for the poorer classes of their fellow-citizens
since the carrying of the Reform Bill in 1832 ? Had they
. von them cheap justice, or cheap education ?—( Hear.)
(lad they attempted to interfere with the laws which now
centrolled and prevented the exchange of their labour
ler the food which other countries had a right to export ?
I le did not believe it was now in the power of the landlords to
give the full relief. the people required. It is to the want
of sympathy for the people by this House that a great per-
tioa of tho agitation which now pervaded the country may
be.attributeS; look at the present state of the empire, did
not this civilized country find itself in such a state
cf disorganization as made. us shudder ? Did there not
exist in England and Scotland a most formidable agitation ?
The reason was that the great bulk of the population had
net that preponderance in the reptesentation which they
ought. Have we not within one hundred yards of
us a Convention of National Delegates ? Have we
net a national press? All these matters prevent us
front saying in our Address that we can assist her
Majesty in the way which we propose. The only way
to remedy these evils is, by probing to the root those
bad measures which has caused them, this grew. evil can be
traced to the speech of the Noble Lord (J. Russell), at the
beginning of the last session.---( Hear, pee r, from the upper
end, of the Treasury benches. ) It was that declaration
that gave force and influence to this agitation. By putting
1 under the ban of political exclusion those who have every
right to enjoy the advantages of our constitution, lie has
drawn the people to their present state of agitetion. \Vi re
are those halcyon days which the Noble Lord ertid we now
enjoy in his address to the electors of Stroud ? Look at
' Ireland also, where is the tranquillity which last }ear's
Tithe Bill was said would give that country. My Hon.
Friend, the Member for Dublin, although when the Tithe
BM was passing, said he should he quiet for three years, yet
he wee only landed on the shore of his native land, when
he unfurled the standard of agitation, and lisle now to support
him a large body of Precursors. This is the policy of which
the House of Commons are called on to pronounce an ap
prove'. You have given too much to stop. You -must go on ;
we are now in a state of transition. I have always deprecated
the use of force in obtaining any benefit for t he community . I
have ever endeavoured to separate what is form from what
is substantial. Before I sit down I still call on these Hon.
Members who sit on the same side of the House to reflect
on the votes they may give on this amendment.
The SPEAKER said that if the resolution proposed by
Mr. Duncombe was intended to be attached to the Address
it could not be proposed, he thought as an amendment.
Lord EUSTON, as Member for one of the smell com-
munities, . agreed that the Reform Bill should not be
thought a final measure. He opposed the Reform Bill.
It was successful because a much smaller measure of re-
form had been refused. He regretted that there was no
mention in the Speech of any of those blessings which they
bed obtained from Providence, in giving them a harvest,
without which the people of the country would be in
a starving condition.—( Cheers. )
Mr. HANDLE Y said the motion of the Hon. Member
fos Finsbury would have his most decided and determined
oppositiou.—( Cheers. )' He would not express any opinion
-as to the finality of the Reform Bill, but lie could not but
think the motion had been administered by the Hon. Mem-
ber fir Finsbury as an anodyne, to allay some of the evil
spirits of the borough of Finsbury.—( Cheers.) He con-
sidered it as a Finsbury farce, and as such totally useless.—
( Ci eers.) While he was upon his legs, he would take the
opportunity of adverting to a subject of great importance to
his constituents. The Hon. Members who had moved and
seconded the Address had alluded to no mention being made
in the Speech with respect to the Corn-laws, and had ex-
pressed a hope that the subject would be introduced in
the course of the Session. He should have been surprised if
the subject had been introduced in the Speech from the Throne
after the opinion expressed by the Noble Lord at the head
of le r Majesty's Government, and after the letter written
by the Noble Lord at the head of the Home Office, to his
constituents at Stroud.—( Cheers.) He wished that his
Honourable Friend who had given them such an able eluci-
dation of th'e prosperous state of the manufacturing inte-
r' sts—(Cheers)—who had made a speech that had been
heard with satisfaction by both sides of the House—
( Cheers)—he wished that he had made that speech to the
Chamber of Commerce, at Manchester, as it would have
afforded very cogent argument, that the agitation was not
as- its 1815, to be found in the labourers and operatives
because they bad found by better experience that cheap
bread meant no wages.—( Cheers.) He was, therefore,
glad that Ministers had not alluded to the question
of the monopoly of the Corn-laws in the Speech. In
his opinion the Corn-laws were only defensible upon the
ground that they led to the prosperity of the many, and it
was his firm opinion that the present laws, in principle and
practice, were the best that could be devised.—( Hear.)
Mr. H LIME was glad that the lion. Gentleman who had
spoken last had admitted that the Corn-laws were a mono-
poly. Against whom was it a monopoly ? Why, the whole
netion.—(Cheers.) In whose favour was it ? The land-
lords.—( Cheers.) It was because it was a monopoly that
he for one had protested against it—(lean ) He thought
the statements of the Hon. Member who had seconded the
motion were to be taken in a very different light to the
construction put upon them by the Hone Member who had
last addressed the House. The country had become impo-
verished by the monopoly of the Corn- laws, and the House
ought not to allow such a state of things to continue.—
( Chrers.) What was the state of the labourers employed
by the manufacturers ? Why, in consequence of the
pliee of food in the country, they were pressed down
aid deprived of the fair profits of their labour, and were
made the greatest slaves upon the earth,—( Cheers.) The
people were famishing by thousands.—(Cries rif " Oh 1
oh I') He asserted that such was the fact. He knew it
from his own observation.—(Cheers.) They might eon-
ceel it if they pleased, but lie would -fearlessly assert that
the high price of corn, without an adequate rise in wages,
bad been the cause of such disastrous circumstances. _
( Cheers.) Yet such was the state the Hon. Member who
had just sat down was desirous of continuing,—
( Hear, hear, hear.) He (Mr Hume) was no
finality man, nor was the Noble Lord, because he had
stated that the Ballot and Universal Suffrage must be left ,
to future times. It was most important for the country to
know whether they had a Ministry that would correct abuses
or allow them to exist.—(Hear.) The people now saw
that those who had brought forward the Reform Bill had not
the courage to go through with it; and it was to test those
oho had hitherto supported Ministers, and to ascertain those
w ho wished to stand still,t hat the present motion was brought
torward.—( Hear.) Noteithstanding all that had been
seid to the contrary, be considered the time chosen by his
frieed for bringing his amendment forward roost opportune,
because one of the paragraphs in the Speech called the at-
test:ion of the House to the discontent in the country, and
the other paragraph called upon the House to increase the
civil power, in order to maintain the law. Such being
the ease, he thought it was the duty of the House to
know what was. the existing cause of that discontent.
The great cause of that discontent was, that the House
had passed laws favourable to the Aristocracy and against
the people.—(Hear.) The people had suffered long with
greet patience, and now they had crime forward to demand
their rights. —( Hear.) The people of England were little
better than slaves, fur they bad tio voice in the formation
of the laws ?—( Hear.) Was that no ground for discon-
tent? On that ground it was that he thought his Hon.
Friend was perfectly right in the motion he had made.
Ile was one who thought that the laws were not equal—
that they were made for one class, the few and not the
many. It was, therefore, right that the House should de-
clare; whether they were prepared to go on, or to adopt the
doctrine of the Noble Lord who led that House. Indeed, he
thought he had shown great judgment in not pressing
on the public those matters of which every man would ad-
mit. the truth. 11-, therefore, concurred with- the motion
of the Hon. Member as far as regarded the amendment of
his Hon. Friend. Ile did rot object to the Addreze, be- 1
cause he felt they were not bound by any of the allege-
floes it contained. He had not heard it, and he wished to
ask whether any clause was introduced, assuring her Ma-
jesty that this House would take into consideration the
- Cern- taws. There Was Ito rfteeetisfee-is.-lets-opierienro con-
neetcd with the welfare of the nation of more importance
than that. It Via; ridiculous to suppose that the land alone
formed the wealth of the country. England was a
manufactuting country. A great stress had been laid on
the twoßillilst repealrelative tttoohe open n
Aus'ria and Turkey,o it was argued
tbut hat they were
why trot
likelyv a n
d channels
then ,of commerce;
C o r ne l a
ws world would be thrown open. Let the Corn-laws be re-
biet,allanntditt
he
—let
ainlaasndcehdea
pealed ; let the ingress of food of all kinds, not simply of
obtaineern
tuorcaline
should be worse off than lie ppronspriee
was now. He thought it
would lead to a due regulation of the market ; it would place
the Englishman on the footing of men in other countries.
Was it not known that they made an EnglisliMan labour 14
hours. to obtain his food. He thought that
the change would
take place without injury to any class, but the landed propri-
etor he was certain would be henefitted,•and the whole of
the working classes benefittcd Let the impediment he
withdrawn—let American corn find its way to seek British
manufactures, and they would find a double profit ; let any
man read the late accounts from Norway and Sweden;
such is the state of those countries, they would actually
take corn from this country and send us timber in return—
in short, there were many openings: We only wanted
WIC remedy and one law —let the Corn-laws be repealed.
With respect to Belgium he did not expect to find in
this age her Majesty's Ministers should have shown such a
great want of attention to the wishes of mankind to think
that individuals are to be transferred like flocks of sheep
from one country to another. Before her Majesty's Mi-
nisters should have given their sanction to the Treaty, these
matters, in his opinion, should have been discussed. Hole
laud had taken six years to consider of it. Why, if Hol-
land gave her tardy consent, is it necessary that England
should step in to sanction the transferring of hunian beings
like beasts from one country to another? He was sure when
her Majesty came to consider the effect of that Speech—the
violation of human and divine laws—(Laughter)—he said
human and divine laws, it never. was intended that men
should be thus handed over; , if, therefore, the House
gave their sanction to that paragraph of the Address,
he must tender his rotest. If the conduct of the Govern-
ment towards Poland had been disgraceful, what might it not
be considered in this instance ; the Speech directed the
House to the present state of Canada ; did the House
Iknow the present state of Canada ? Military laws inter-
: fered to try civil offences; three Judges had been sus-
pended because they offered protection to those who
sought their shelter. He was satisfied that there was not a
man in that House who would agree in sanctioning such

proceedings .unless extraordinary circumstances author-
ised them ; he hoped the people would not have to learn
that after twenty-three years of peace the tfttes were to be
heavier than they had been ; on the whole he thought they
would act wisely to sanction this motion, because it was
the only test that this Howe would take into consideration
such laws as would give satisfaction to the nation.
MR. B ROT H ERTON said, with regard to the amend-
ment, he would only state one fact, that in a population of
twenty-five millions only one million were franchised; the
people complain that the laws are partial, his motive for
rising was to prevent the House from being led away by
the statements they had heard. They were told that
bread had been doubled within the last year: An Hon.
Member had said, that wages had been increased ; the
manufacturers said, that they had no profits—if they had
they were taken from the pockets of the labourer. Tho Hon.
Member may say that our exports have increased ; the ex-
portation of machinery has increased very largely, and it
would be found that our exports had not increased in those
articles on which much labour was employed. He had no
hesitation in saying that the manufactures of this country
were by no means in a favourable state. He should be glad
to see them improving, but even if they were, it would not
authorise the Legislature to legislate for one class to the
prejudice of another. It was his opinion, that unless there
were a change in the Corn-laws the interests of the country
would be impaired. He merely thought it his duty to enter
his protest against the statement of the Hon. Gentleman.
Mr. HE ATHCOTE said that after the Hon. Member
for Kendal had gone into a dissertation on the Corn-laws it
hardlybehoved him to be silent : and here he would notice
the oft repeated and refuted arguments which had been
brought forward by the Hon. Members for Kendal and for
Salford, that a repeal of the Corn-laws would be not only
for the benefit of the manufacturers, but of the landholders
also ; but that such was the opinion in that part of the
country with which he was more particularly connected, he
begged most positively and decidedly to deny. He could
assure Hon. Gentlemen that he had never seen anything
like the feeling on this point. He had been connected with
his county for nineteen years, and he never caw a feeling so
strong and so unanimous as the one on this subject. Ile
contrasted this unanimity with the differences of opinion,
and the violence of expression, which had been manifested
at meetings held elsewhere on the subject. There was an
equal difference with that to which he had alluded, between
the lion. Member for Kendal and the Member for Salford.
It had been represented this was a question merely tetween
the landholders on one side, and the country on the other,
but this was not the case. The feeling in favour of the
Corn laws was not only common to all parties in politics,
but to all classes. Not only landholders, but farmers—not
ciirly farmers, but tradesmen—( Hear, hear)e—not only
tradesmen, but labourers—shared in this feeling. Petitions
would be presented to this House from every parish in Lin-
colnshire in favour of the Corn-laws, and the great hulk of
the signatures would be of the class he had alluded to.
Gentlemen always argue this question as if it had reference
solely to landowners ; now the fact is, that there are none
so much interested as the small proprietors. It is useless
to talk to them of a reduction of rent. As they cultivate
their own ground, the question should be considered. with
reference to them ; and if he was proud of the confidence
of the great landowners, he was prouder still of their con-
fidence, and all their wish is, to be let alone.—( Hesr, hear,
and laughter.) Not only )vas he for no surrender, but he
was for no compromise. He was decidedly against a fixed
duty. lie considered a fixed duty as a lower protection
a hen prices were low, and as none at all when prices were high.
He was quite convinced no compromise could take place;
but have no other classes monopoly besides the landowners ?
have not manufacturers ?—( Cries of " No, no.") —have not
woollen manufacturers—manufacturers of silk—no mo
poly ?—(Cries of " No, no.") Did not one of, those
classes of manufacturers send up two petitions to that
House—one praying for greater protection fir their own
industry, and the other praying for a repeal of the Corn-
laws, and this is the one-handed justice of these Gentlemen ;
but the fact is that if we have a free trade we must not
only have a free trade in corn, but in every thing else.—
( Loud cheers.) Every one wishes for a monopoly for
themselves, and free trade for every one else. The sea-
ports reject a free trade—the manufacturing towns reject a
free trade ; therefore we may cheer after the next election.
Many members have lost their seats on the free trade ques-
tion, and many more will. It was with great pleasure that
he perceived that the Corn-laws had not been alluded to in
the address; he supposed it was the intention of her Mejesty's
Government to profess neutrality ; on that subject he hoped
it would be a fair neutrality, and then when Hon. Gentle-
men on the other side intended to vote in favour of the
Corn-laws, no obstacle would be thrown in their way,
because such conduct would be resented in such a way as
would do them great in jury.
Mr. JAMES said he was for progressive reform, and no
one could regret more than he did the declaration of the
Noble Lord on the finality of the Reform Bill. When
measures should be brought forward for the extension of
the suffrage, for the shortening of Parliaments, and for the
introduction of the Vote by Ballot, they should have his
support, but he could not approve of the Amendment to the
Address. The moving of this Amendment showed a want
of respect to her Majesty. He considered that if this
Amendment passed it would be a vote of censure on the
Ministry, and they would consequently go out of office, a
catastrophe in which he should be sorry to take pert. He
should vote for the Address.—(The Hon. Gentleman sat
down amidst loud cries of " Question ")
Mr. O'CONNEL L rose amidst loud cries of "'Ques-
tion," which continued for some moments. Ile merely
wished to make a few observations. The amendment was
no question on the Address, it was merely an addition to
it; so far they were all agreed ; it asserts what is strictly
true, that the Reform Bill is not satisfactory, and if' the ;To-
pic are dissatisfied with it, it should he taken into considera-
tion. Hon. Gentlemen thould recollect that the grounds
of the opposition to which they had alluded as having taken
place at the late Corn-law meetings were, that the people
desired an extension of the suffrage, so that if it affected
the question of the `Corn-laws adversely, it affected the
other proposition affirmatively. Having voted against an
similar amendment last year, he expressed his determina-
tion to vote in favour of this —(Laughter.) Last year
he did apprehend that the amendment might disturb
existing relations—( A laugh)--this year he had no such
apprehensions, circumstances have happened in the interval
which) justified this course; 'the popular will has been loudly
expressed, and he should vote in accordance with the popu-
lar will. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman then alluded
to the subject of Belgium, and expressed a wish that the
Treaty would not be enforced, and the people of Luxetri-
burgh and Limburgh compelled to succumb teethe Dutch
Government. What right have you-to compel them to go
back to the Treaty of Vienna ? What was done when
Nicholas violated that treaty ;with' regard to Poland ? It
was never enforced in:favoureaf the Poles. Nothing could
be more dangerous to thb ;monarchical principle than the
conduct pursued by the Quintruple Alliance, The King
of Prussia had created a vast deal of disaffection in his do-
minions. It was stated that these measures were for
avoiding a war.—( Hear, hear.) Let them take care
that instead of avoiding, they were not sowing the
seeds of many a future war. With regard to Canada,
we were originally in the wrong. Out of economy we took
many Members from the 'Canadian Parliament ; what is
that economy now ? Haman blood has been shed at the
gallows ; he protested against this. In this country hu-
manity had succeeded iu almost abolishing the penalty of
death, and why should not this humanity go across die At-
lantic? True, the invaders of Upper Canada were banditti;
but of all other punishments, were there none other more
effective than death? The prisoners were fried by Courts-
martial; why were they not tried by Juries? Why mention
d'e loyalty of the Canadians in your Address ? It they will
acquit unjustly, they are not loyal; but, the Jury will acquit
meats that the Court-martial will not—this bespeaks a
foregone' conclusion. He could insagiue nothing more
galling to the feelings of the gallant officers commanding the
army than to be fighting with these unfortunate people one
day and trying and hanging them the next. Why try by
Court-martial men not taken in arms? Three of the
Judges were superseded by the military; and we must
make some efforts that our officers in Canada should not
rival the Cabreras of Spain. He protested against the con-
duct that had been pursued towards Belgium, and he
trusted that Belgium would not submit to have her liberty
voted away.
Sir R. PEEL—I do not intend to advert to any of the
subjects introduced into the amendment, or to any of the
speeches in support of it, or to die Address. Whatever
questions they embrace, we must feel that we are met under.
circumstances of more importance. The state of Belgium,
the state of France, the state of India, all great subjects,
were of :such vital consequence as: demanded our earnest
consideration. First, indeed, I must say of our diplomatic
relations in the Turkish Treaty, I cannot:conceive how those
who completed that treaty were entitled to the great praise
that was bestowed on them, when it must be recollected
that it is only a repetition of the Treaty of 1829,
perfected by my Noble Friend Lord Aberdeen; and
although so much panegyric was given to it—panegyric
which, I think, it is not entitled to, wo must not forget
that it is the same in principle as the former one; but allowing
it to merit all the praise that it receives, it must be confessed
that it is not a sufficient guarantee against the encroach-
ments of Russia. It was entered into by the Turks and
Austrians as a means only
,of raising an impediment to the
too easy transport of articles of commerce which had
escaped paying duty by raising the impost from 3 to 12 per
cent. (Here Mr. spring Rice said that the rise was not so
much, it was only from 3 to 5 per cent.) I now must advert
to a subject, which I am sorry to say, has not been taken
up wi:h that consideration which it ought—that is the Bri-
tish interest in India. When I contemplate what our re-
lations are with that interesting portion of the empire, I
cannot refrain from expressing my dissent from the line of
proceedings adopted by the Chief- Governor of that country.
I however hope, that all means will be taken to give every
satisfaction to the public on every subject connected with this
important division of the empire—if Persia is, instead of
being our friend, made our enemy, and the friend of Russia.
Your attention has not been sufficiently turned to our
foreign relations. We have been squabbling about matters
connected with our domestic interests, and these great con.
terns, on which hang the questions of peace and war, on
which the fate of the nation depend, have hitherto escaped
us.—(Hear, hear.) You learn from the Speech from
the Throne, that in the relations between England and
Persia, differences which have arisen have occasioned
the retirement of our Minister from the Court of Tehe-
ran, that is, from the Court of Persia, and her Majesty
indulges a hope that a satisfactory adjustment of those
differences may have taken place. Is it this which has
induced the Governor-General to enter into en-
gagements, and is it on this account that his
preparations are made ?—( Hear, hear.) If these
preparations are made'for the purpose of resisting the ag-
gressions of Russia, they might be politic. He knew what
had been said in the British Parliament of confining our
empire in India within proper limits, and that it was pru-
dent to avoid making conquests ; but he could not find in
any public document presented to them a justification of
the proclamation issued by the Governor-General, nor could
he find any connection between that proclamation and the
Speech from the Throne. Lord Auckland's, declaration of
war against the people of Cabul was a dangerous pro-
ceeding, and his guaranteeing the restoration of Shah
Soojah to the throne of his ancestors was entering into
an engagement so extensive as to comprehend the friends
and enemies of the King of Cabul, and that the friends
and enemies of the Sehah are to bo considered as the friends
and enemies of England; that he is to be supported by a
British army, and when he is restored to the Throne that

the British army i.?.; to be withdrawn. On all these subjects
a satisfactory explanation was required. This Shah
Shoojah, it seems, was deposed in 1809, and afterwards
endeavoured to recover his possessions, and raised an army
of 20,000 men for that purpose. The Governor-General
had entered into a guarantee that this person should be
replaced upon the Throne. This was in principle, he con-
tended, precisely the same as if England were to have under-
taken the restoration of Charles the Tenth.—( Hear.) In
1831 an experienced officer had been sent to report upon
the state of that Country; he alluded to Captain Burnes, and
this was the account which Captain Burnes had given. The
Shah was deposed, not by enemies, but by the hostility of
his own subjects. Captain Burnes says that it was entirely
on account of his pride and arrogance, and that he might
have regained his position but for his rash attempts before
he was fixed on his throne to exercise his power; and that
it was evident the restoration of Shoojah was a most impro-
bable event. This was the account given by Captain
Burnes in 1832 or 1833. There was the statement of their
own officer that the restoration of the Shah wasalext to
impossible, for that the wealth and feeling of the country
were entirely against him, and yet they now had the
proclamation of the Governor. General to say that it
should be done. It did appear to him that this matter
requited an explanation which had not been_ given, and
which must be of a very different character from that
which had been given. Persia, in his opinion, stood in
a very different position, and the conduct pursued with
regard to that country might be perfectly right. The
next subject of the Speech was necessarily of the utmost
importance. He alluded to the subject of Canada,
and he must say, though he had -nothing to object
to the general purport of the Speech that he
did wish that stronger terms had been made use of in ee
pressing our sympathy with the sufferings and troubles of
the people of that country—( Hear)—of a people exposed to
every species of injury, and of whom ho could not express
his admiration in terms sufficiently strong. They were not
actuated by any cold calculations of pecuniary interest—
they were influenced to their Noble conduct by their expe-
rience of the benefit of our monarchical system of Govern-
molt ever the democratic form of the neighbouring State;
they u ere actuated by their noble desire to share in
the fortunes of Great Britain ; their conduct was noble in
the highest degree ; and I much wish that during the last
Session of Parliament they had experienced the sympathy
of the Legislature. It is probably not too late even now,
and I trust that they will be assured of the sympathy and
support of the British Legislature. Her Majesty in her
Speech calls upon us to support and maintain the authority
of the Crown. By this declaration her Majesty gives us to
understand that she will maintain the authority of the
Crown, that she intends to maintain her authority over the
whole of her North American possessions.—(Cheers.)
-The honour of the country demands that we should assist her
Majesty to maintain such sovereignty. We are called upon
by every principle of honour and of humanity to aid those
gillanz men, who have proved th,.rnselves to be worthy of
our. suirport, who have proved that they are worthy of their
connection with England. I presume that it is now a po-
sitive intention that her Majesty's sovereignty over those
possessions will be maintained at every risk. I consider
that lisr Majesty, by saying—
" I have to acquaint you with deep concm that the province of
Lower Canada has again- been disturbed by insurrection, and that
hostile incursions have been made into Upper Canada by certain
lawless inhabitant, of the United States of North America. These
violati,ns of the public peace have been promptly suppressed by
the valour of my forces and the loyalty of my-Canadian subjects.
The President of the United States 'has called upon the citizens
of the Union to abstain from proceedings so incompatible with the
friendly relations which subsist between Great Britain and the United
States."

By saying so, I presume her Majesty has made a declara-
tion in the face of the world to the people of Canada—
a declaration in the face of those who had made
so many attempts to molest as brave and loyal a po-
pulation as is in connection with England, that she
will, with the whole force of the country, maintain her
s wereignty over all those Provinces in North America.
I consider it is a declaration of immense importance—it is
of much importance, in order to cheer up that gallant
population, who may now be drooping at the thought of
our supineness—to cheer up the hearts of those who have
been subject to the most annoying series of insults and
wrongs. It is of importance that the declaration should be
so understood by the aggressor—that they should know
that her Majesty's sovereignty will be supported with
all the power of England. It is of importance that
it should be so understood by the misguided subjects
of the United States. During the whole of my political
career, I have never spoken of the United States with
any other feeling than that of deprecating any animosity
between two countries of a common origin. I have al-
ways felt that it is of much importance that a good feeling
should exist between countries so similar, and so intimately
connected; but that feeling will not deter me from express-
ing ray feelings of the conduct of any of her sons. I will
condemn it if I think their conduct justifies me. By the
papers laid before us it appears that her Majesty communi-
cated to the President of the United States what took
place, and we arc told that he issued a Proclamation, call-
ing upon the people to abstain from such attempts of ag-
gression upon unoffending men in a peaceful neighbouring
country. Naw, Sir, I cannot be satisfied with this, if it
is all that he had done.—( Hear.) I cannot conceive a
greater grievance than that to which the people of
Canada have bean subjected:—no grievance can be more in-
tolerabli: than that the inhabitants on the frontier of one
country shall be liable to be shot or have their property de-
stroyed—always kept in a state of excitement and doubt by
the itiltehitants of another. Nothing, Sir, in my opinion
can be more dangerous than the allowing of such a course
to be pursued. Good God, what a state of society we
should live in if such things were allowed, that the inhabi-
tants of a country arc allowed to be kept in a state of
alarm—that they are to be shot or burned, and that the
only reparation we shall receive shall be that we, upon
complaint, shall be told, " Oh, our laws arc too weak to
prevent these practices, but we will call upon our subjecti to
be quiet." What steps did America take upon a
similar occasion ? Why she set an example to
all other nations.—( Hear, hoar.-) When the' Seminole
Indians attacked their frontier, what was the conduct of
Gen r,! Jackson ? Did he complain to the Spanish Go-
vernment, and call upon them to issue a proclamation to
She ludians, calling upon .them to remain quiet ? No : his
conduct was very different. Ho at once entered the
count: r', and seized upon the forts. .:When the Spanish
Gove usnent complained, was General Jackson reproved ?
-No: but the American Ambassador said, " If you cannot
maintaiu order in your own province, we Loud
cheers.) Mr. Adams further said to Spain, " You must
either send a force into the province sufficient to maintain
order on our frontier, or cede it to us, for peace we must
have."—( Loud cheers.) It is necessary that the example
of America should be followed, in order to avert
the inevitable consequences of such a series of such
grave annoyances. A people exposed to such repeated
sufferings, might take the raw into their own hands, and the
consequences it was impossible to foresee. Most undoubt-
edly it they arc not put down a war is inevitable, and to
avert that it is justifiable to use the whole power of the
country. For the general peace of all nations it is abso-
lutely necessary that so great a crime should be adequately
punished. See what an expense these attempts have al-
ready caused to this country : but the injury is deeper, for if
200 persons can go into a
_peaceable and neighbouring
country, and burn or plunder a village, what is to hinder a
larger farce from penetrating further and committing such
depre.Ltions as must render a war inevitable._ I appeal
to public justice that more ought to be done than
issuii:g a mere proclamation calling upon the people to
refrain from such practices. What has been the punishment
inflicted upon the persons who broke open the arsenals of
the United States, and stole the arms of the United States
to be used against the inoffensive Canadians ? I am not
aware of any other topic noticed in the Address, and am
very stilling to admit the opinion of the Hon. Members
who do not consider themselves bound by its allegations.
I now come to the topics which were not adverted
to. The speeches we have heard arc a sort of
hint to the Government that the most important topic of
all, was the one they bad omitted. I speak of the Corn-
laws. I thank the Hon. Gentleman for a brief, but
certainly the ablest speech in defence of the existing sys-
tem, that it has been my good fortune to hear. His Hon.
Friezels near me know that when they were exulting in his
arguments, and called on me for my approbation, I said
" No ;" fully persuaded that he intended to proceed to the
demolition of his own premises : and when he sat down I never
was so much relieved in all my life, becatise I never heard a
speech go so far to confirm you in your adherence to the
present system.--( Applause, and laughter.) If he had
said—" I will give you quantities ; I will prove to you that
there has been an increase in the exports of England."
If ho had said—" I will give you the official value," then
there would have been a loud demand on us for
the declared value. But for us all, he said—" I
will give you the declared value; I will take the
years 1834, 35, 36, and 37'; 1 will:not take quantities or
official value ; I will compare the last year with four other
years, and will show you that the progressive increase on
shall disturb
robf
manufactures is seven per cent. on the whole quantity. I
was myself prepared to show there wasan increase. In 1829
the ex ports of cotton yarn amounted to 57 millions, in 1838 to
148 millions. There was more than double the quantity
of cotton thread exported in 1838 than in 1835. But he went
further than the manufacturing system—he went to the
shipping trade. Sir, I only say that these are facts we
should consider
the present system.
the Address. It refers " to the persevering efforts made
w h e n w i
e now discuss
co m e
t o the last w
e
paragraph
h
in sumo parts of the country to excite my subjects to
illegal practices." I do not hesitate to affirm that
whetherall I
must cordially participate in that expression. I do hope
that the high authority of her Majesty warning her subjects
against the violation of the law, will have its effect. I do
find certainly that the language used during that time
was most exciting. I
improper and care not by wheel
it War used whether against the Poor-laws or the
Corn-laws, but I say it was most detestable language,
considering the station of life of those who used
it. It was language tending to encourage the for-
mation of combinations, and dangerous to the peace of
the country. I wish that the Noble Lord when he, as Se-
cretary of State, thought fit to advert to the subject
as it
appeared in the public press, had not used language which
would have been incapable of perversion or misrepresenta-
tion. I shall not state the grounds on which my impres-
sions are founded. I find that in the month of September
a public meeting was held in London, and one of the
't •
speakers at that meeting used language to this effect,
speaking of the people in the North They are all
armed. +I have seen the arms hanging over their mantle-
pieces. The national petition has come most oppor-
tunely, and we must insist upon having Universal
Suffrage. He defied the power of any Government or any
armed Bourbon police to put them down. They intended
to hold a great aggregate meeting at Manchester, at which
300,000 persons would be present, and two-thirds at least
of these would be armed." Dr. Wade, another speaker,
observed that " he would say a weird as to the Convention.
One advantage would be that they would have an executive
power to watch the Government." Mr. O'Connor, for-
merly a Member of this House, had said "that they had
got a taste of physical force in the neighbourhood of the
Haus • ; they had some evidence of the power of the people
whom the Whigs had deprived of their rights, all for
the purpose of putting power into the hands of the
three devils of Somerset House.—( Laughter.) Mr.
Steoens, I believe a Rev. Gentleman, made use of these
words on the 26th of September—" If the Magistrates and
the local authorities of the district had not given the police

into the command of the Marshals of this meeting, I a;sure
you no civil demonstration could have been made; then I
would have brought 10,000 armed men to this meeting, and
I would have moved, if necessary, an adjournment of the
people of South Lancashire until this day month, when !could
have collected every man capable of bearing arms to flock
to my standard, and fight the battle of the Constitution."—
( Hear, hear.) I think the Noble Lord, when speaking
of these meetings sub3equently, although I do not doubt the
Noble Lord's intention of animadverting upon them as he
ought, yet F must say that his sentiments, as put forward
to the public, were capable of being grossly misunderstood
and misrepresented. These meetings were still in pro-
gress. This language—this abominable language—had
been used ; and the Noble Lord, according to
this report of his address which appeared in every
paper, and has hitherto passed without contradiction, in
alluding to the public meetings held in various'parts of the.
country, observed, " Some perhaps thought that they ought
to be put down, but such was not his opinion, or that of the
Government with which he acted. Ho thought the people
had a right to meet—free discussion elicited truth—( Cheers
from the Tory benches)—but if there were no real griev-
ances, common sense would speedily come to the rescue."--
( Vehement cheering from the Ministerial benches.) Sir,
there arc many truths which cannot be at all times put
forward withom qualification, but if in- times of public
excitement--