The Sun.
London, England, 1837-04-29 00:00:00

us. This horrible poverty is all your doing. Agricultural
produce has been comparatively decreasing the number of
labourers comparatively increasing. There is a great debt
due to Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) I have no hesitation in saying
that the real remedy which the Irish people have to look for
is self-government. In the discussion of that question I had
to encounter columns after columns of figures which were dis-
played against me. They were commented upon to show the
increase of wealth in Ireland. What now becomes of the columns
of figures contrasted with the evidence of the Poor-law Com-
missioners ? They remark at once—(Hear)—political causes
have reduced the country to its present condition. I come not
here to make a polemical or political speech. I wish only to
state facts—to trace the causes of misery and destitution that
are unequalled on the face of the globe.--(Hear, hear.) To
be sure, it may be said that I am making a case for a Poor-
law. Certainly lam for a provision for the poor, and afford-
ing to them relief; but whether that is to be by a Poor-law,
is another question. lam here making a case to interest your
humanity; lam here making a case to excite your compas-
sion, and to afford every possible stimulant to assist me in _
taking Ireland from the situation in which you have placed it.
You know now what is the condition of Ireland at present.
It is crying out for a remedy. I ask you for the remedy. What
remedy do you propose ?--( Hear, hear.) We require some
remedy. e
dly. wrh It i admitteds
at d o y
you
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propose
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You
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ose
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the negroes, or to their masters. Will you give 20,000,0001.
to the Irish ? Twenty millions would do a great deal. Will you
give a grant, or send money over to Ireland—or will you give
an annuity or the twenty millions ? Will you give 600,0001. a
year, and apply it to the benefit of the Irish people ? No ; but
you come out upon me, and say—if you have your five shil-
lings in one pocket, we will give a shilling out of one pocket
and put it into the other, in order that, according to the pro-
verb, you may not say you are pooigr, e
havingeiyou leave
e"me to taxoney in
both pockets." Y.( u s.y to us, we null
yourselves. This is the mode in which you will relieve our
misery and distress. The Carlow farmer, who is dying from
not being able to have a refreshing draught to wet his lips in
fever—that man is to be taxed ; you will compel him to give
g
relief to support wretches who are not perhaps half as miser-
ablev as he is himself. I believe, that you ought to bethink
yourselves whether or not vou will give to Irelend some an-
nuity.—( Hear, hear.) Will you form a proper system of emi-
gration ?—( Hear, hear, hear.) Emigration is now going on.
The Noble Lord has very properly remarked that the expense
of emigration is now defrayed by emigrants themselfes, and
that, if the system were altered, those persons would not go
without assistance from Government. Why not take the waste
lands of Canada ? Why not dispose of them in such a way as
to promote an effectual emigration ? Why not take the colo-
nial waste l als as the American Government does? Why not
make them a fund ? Nobody would miss them : such a step
might perhaps put an end to a certain extent of the Land Com-
pany ; but it would enrich the Canadian people by sending out
to them great numbers of healthy, able-bodied labourers. There
would be something in that: but you do not talk of doing it.
What is it that you propose to do? Do you mean 'to give us
public works? I propose works of public utility. I propose
the construction of roads and means of communication through
mountains and bogs. I propose the drainage of lands where
the capital required goes beyond the means of individuals to
supply. My Hon. Friend near me suggests the opening of
the Shannon.—( A laugh.) Perhaps that might come within
the works I would propose. But you have nothing for me ex-
cept this Bill. I have already shown you that it is not compe-
tition for land that makes the misery of Ireland. Then what
is it that causes the distress and wretchedness of the country,
and of what value is this Bill to remove them? I will not
now canvass any of its details, which. may be more suited
for discussion in Committee. I take only its great prin.
ciples. In the first place, it is. founded upon Mr. Nicholls's
report. Ought any Act of Parliament to be founded on that
man's report? I find it impossible to speak of that report in
the terms one ought to use in this House. It is impossible,
with due regard to the decorum of Parliament, to speak of
it in the terms of execration in which it ought to be held.
What did Mr. Nicholls do ? On the 22d of August, being in
London, he fits himself out for his Irish expedition, delibe-
rately takes his way to Ireland, and by the 15th of November
has prepared his report, and safely returned to London. This
report is drawn up entirely from his own observation ; for, with
contemptuous indifference, Mr. Nicholls cast aside altogether
all the information that could have been afforded by the Poor-
law Commissioners who had been sitting upon the subject of
Poor-laws in Ireland. Mr. Nicholls having spent rather more
than two months in his survey of the state of Ireland, certainly
begins his report in rather a comical manner; for, says he,
remembering of course the weary period he had engrossed in
the service, " it is only by personal inspection that the state
of Ireland can possibly be known." After a personal inspec-
tion of six or eight weeks, Mr. Nicholls actually advances an
opinion that Irish- women were chaste ! Of a truth, he must
be a mighty keen observer: but I agree with him that it is by
personal inspection only that Ireland ean be known ; though it
would perhaps have been well if the personal inspection of Mr.
Nicholls had been carried somewhat further before he cast aside
from him as wholly unworthy of observation or regard the report
of the Irish Poor-law Commissioners. I have inquired a little of
Mr. Nicholl's mode of proceedings whilst he was in Ireland;
and I understand that, although several of the Commis-
sioners were resident in Dublin during the time he was
there, he only thought it worth while to seek out one of
them, Mr:- Vignolles, upon whose experience arid under-
standing he might certainly have put implicit faith. Disre-
garding, however, any information he msght have received
from that gentleman, Mr. Nicholls decides upon establishing
in Ireland 100 poor-houses. That is the scheme to relieve
Ireland from all her distress and all her misery-100 work-
houses ! I will canvass this scheme a little more particularly
presently. Mr. Nicholls, with his 100 workhouses, talks of
giving relief to 80,000 persons. Now, you will recollect that
the Irish Poor Law Commissioners reported that there were
mass of poverty by boxing up 80,000 poor persons in 100
poor-houses? Is not this preposterous? Is it not much
worse than preposterous? I will not insult the good sense
of the House by dwelling upon it ; I will not pursue Mr.
Nicholls through all the absurdities of his scheme, but I will
call the attention of the House to the charities that now exist
in Ireland, and, comparing the number and extent of these
charities with the misery that exists with them, and in
spite of them, I will then ask the House how far the cenfine-
trent of 80,000 poor persons in a hundred workhouses is likely
to alleviate the sufferings of my unhappy and destitute coun-
trymen ? In the city of Dublin alone the sums annually granted
by this House towards the support of charitable institutions
amount, to 44,45 e/. There arc besides a number of other
charities supported by private subscriptions, of which the an-
nual amount is 29,360/. 19s. 10d. ; and beyond these there_
is another series of charities, the amount of which in pounds,
shillings, and pence, has not been exactly ascertained ; bus,
including all the sums distributed by the Sisters of Mercy and
Sisters of Charity in Dublin, the annual amount cannot be less
than 30,000/. So that in the city of Dublin alone the sums .
given in charity by Parliament, by private subscription, by col-
lections at Protestant churches and Catholic chapels, by reli-
gious and chardable Societies, amounts in the aggregate to
103,800/. per annum. And with all this, is the destitution of
the people relieved ?—( Hear, hear.) Is there no misery—
no wretchedness in Dublin ? Is there a city in the world
where there is so much wretchedness, or so much misery ?
( Hear, hear.) Then if 103.8001. a year be insufficient to
relieve the distress of one city, how can it be supposed that
312,000/., the estimated expense of the 100 workhouses,
will be sufficient to relieve the distress of the whole country ;
recollecting, too, how many sources of private charity will
be dried up the moment a general measure of this kind is
passed. I will put this fact in another point of view. I
have in my hand the statistics of the medical charities of Ire-
land. It seems that there are in the provinces 482 dispen-
saries, 67 fever hospitals, 36 county and city infirmaries, 11
district lunatic asylums, including that at Cork, and in Dublin
8 infirmaries and six hospitals, making a total of 610 estab-
lishments for the distribution of medical charity in Ireland,
supported at an annual expense of 164,991/. This is equal to
one-half of the sum calculated by Mr. Nicholls as the annual
amount of the money to be distributed under the provisions of
the Bill now before us. The average number of persons ad-
mitted into the infirmaries and fever hospitals in Ireland
amounts to 40,000, and the expense, as I have already stated,
amounts to 164,9941. a year. Do you suppose that by
doubling the number of persons to be relieved, and the sums
to be cm' /eyed r that purpose, that you will include all who
stand in need of relief in Ireland, or that you will have suffi-
cient pecuniary means to remove all the distress of that
country ? Stopping the sources of individual charity, do you
suppose that by simply doubling the amount now e .pet ded in
medical charities, you will be increasing to• the people
of Ireland the aids they at present receive ? Have I not
described to you the distress that exists every where in Ire-
land ? Have I not at the same time given you the amount
of the charities that are maintained in that country ? Have
I not shown that upwards of 250,000/. a year arc annually ex-
pended in charitable institutions and medical establishments?
What then becomes of Me. Nicholls's calculation, that
312,0001. a-year is to do everything for Ireland? It is a
dream—a wild dream-312 000/. a-year will do nothing. I
tell you that this law must be confiscation or nothing. Make es
your minds up to that—make the experiment if you please ;
but prepare to take the consequences. I should mention,
that Mr. Nicholls put in in a postscript to his report. It is
said that the material part of a lady's letter is generally to
be be found in the postscript. Mr. Nicholls, being a man
of gallantry, thinks this, I suppose, a proper mode of
following the example of the ladies,. and accordingly he
puts in his most important calculations by way of post-
script-. " The population of Ireland," says he, " being about
eight millions, I assume that workhouse accommodation
may occasionally be required for one per cent., or 80,000
persons," and then in a foot-note he remarks, by way of
illustrating his proposition, that " In Kent, Sussex, Oxford,
gull Berks, the amount of in-door pauperism, as returned on
the 29th of September last, was just one per cent. on the
population. These four counties were among the most
highly pauperised, have been longest under the operation of
the new law, and are provided with most effective work-
house accommodation." Yes, one of cent of the population
are relieved in the workhouses ; but Mr. Nicholls forgets how
many are relieved out of the workhouses—he omits that alto-
gether—he totally forgets it ; and it is upon this man's report
that you are going to act—upon such a report you propose to
legislate for the relief of a nation. Would it not be wise to
pause ? Before you proceed would it not be wise and well to
ascertain the correctness of the grounds on which you are re-
quired to act? I have in my hand a calculation of the amount
of in door and out-door relief afforded in the four English
counties mentioned by Mr. Nicholls. I have beard the amount
of tliat relief rated much higher ; but I will confine myself to
the statements contained in the document before me. It will
be recollected that Kent, Sussex, Oxford, and Berks, are
the counties which Mr. Nicholls .describes as having teen
longest under the operation of the new law, and provided