The Sun.
London, England, 1839-03-08 00:00:00

• that, the Ribbon system had met with such protec-
tion from the Clyvernment in Ireland, He would
assert that io cash the dithrkinNl tht had fake's
place agrarian was to screen the Government and con=
teal the source of critne.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. FITZSIMON did not believe that Mr. Ellice
had been denounced by the Priests in Ireland, as had
been stated by the Hon. Member opposite (Mr. Col-
, fluboun). -No one regfelted rufife than he did the
atrocious crime that had been committed in the county
which he represented ; it was the -first, and he hoped
Oath! he tea of the kind that would take place there.
Mr. LITTON denied that fit Hung and Learned So-
licitor- General for Ireland had disproved the Jleetti.ons
brought against the Govetnteent that, whether inteetioti-
ally or not, the course they had pursued was such as to
, lead the wi 11-disposed and loyal people of Ireland to be-
lieve that the agitators and disturbers of the publ c peace
were receiving the support and assistance of the Govern.
meht. fle had not been able to gainsay a single fact that
had been brought forward. A niece Cr/satisfactory speech
had never been delivered, but it was the most satisfactory
the case could admit of.—( Hear, bear.) Never had there
been so little exertion to discover crime, or such slight
puni.hment of it when trseovered.—( Leud cries of " Hear,
hear.") He utterly denied that the landlords of Ireland
had ever either forgotten or ne;lected their duty.
Ile would draw the attention of the House to the circum-
stances under which Mr. Drummond's letter was written.
A meeting of the Magistrates of Tipperary had b-en held
in consequence of the murder of Mr. Weylend and ano-
ther gentlemen. On this subject he would quote a letter
of the Hon. and Learned Member for Dubin, which he
had real in a Newspaper, which stated it to have been
copied from the Dublin Freeman's Journal.--(" Hear,
hear," from Mr.' O'Connell.) This letter said that it
should not be forgotten that 'Neyland bad taken this
,eau's land, and an offence had been committed against the
honesty a;d peace of society.
Mr. O'CONNELL asked from what Paper the lion.
Member was quoting ?
Mr. LITTON—The Evening Mail, which states it to
be an extract from the Freeman's Journal.
Mr. O'CONNELL—No ! no!
Mr. LITTON—The Magistrates had applied to the Go-
yernmeet for protection, and chat was the reply in this letter
of Mr. Drummond's ? There was no law of the land to
punish landlords, and that they ought to 'member that they
had duties to perform as well as property to protect. There
was one murder before the letter, and almost immediately
after there were two more, those of Mr. O'Keefe and Lnrd
Norbury. E! did not think more of the murder of these
two gentlemen, than of two ia the lowest state of life. The
Noble Lord claimed association and friendship wi•li the
Hon and Learned Member for Dublin, but was he pre-
pared to go along with him in all his opinions?—( Oil, and
laughter.) The Government was obliged to cling to him
in order to preserve their places and their seats. The ef-
fect of all this was that Ireland was a ruined country with-
' out English capital, aed they never would have it so long
as the present system was continued.
Mr. O'CONNELL said this was a most singular de-
bate, first of all because of the inapplicability of the
speeches to the qdestion before the Hause—( Hear, hear)
--and it was more sing.alar for another thing, that four
gentlemen, natives of Ireland, had come forward to do
nothing but traduce and vilify their native land.—( Loud
cheers, and cries of " Oh, oh.") They endeavoured to
show that their own country was the lowest in the
scale of civilization that was to be found on the face of the
each. Amongst others from that land there were those to
b • found with a feeling of patriotism, and a desire to up-
lift arid glorify their father-land.—(Cheers.) Oa the
other side there was an attempt to traduce and vilify
the count rycf their birth.—( Cries of '•O1-,oh," and cheers. )
They said they were surrounded in their own country
by nothing but villains—it was said there were some sods
that produced nothing but venomous reptiles, crawling
things, odious and disgusting.—(Cheers reiterated from
the Tory benches.) They cheered, they hissed, but they
could not sting, they had admitted themselves to belong
to Ireland, a country to which they said no one could
boast of belonging. He boasted of belonging to Ire-
land because though their crimes and vices had driven them
to many an outrage and many a mtirder.—( Loud cheers
and cries of " Oh, oh.") The crimes of men like their,
had produced those results. (Loud cries of " Chair,
chair.") Well then he would make a present of it to them,
and return to the speech of the Hon. and Learned Gen-
tleman, distinguished as it was for its applicability to the
motion, for its kind-hearted feeling towards his own coun-
try—(laughter)—how happy in its illustrations. Well,
because landlords in Ireland were told that they had
du ics as well as rights, they quarrelled with the Secre-
tary, who presumed to tell them so, because he had sym-
pathy with the wives and children of poor men—with-the
feeble and the old who were turned out from their miser-
able cabin to die in the ditch. B cause he dared to pity
them, awl . because the Government dared to tell
Landlords that they had duties to perform, as well as rights
to protect, a complaint of this kind is brought forward ;
the landlords would have been glad enough, had they been
told that they had all rights, and no duties to perform.
Yet the Right 11-in. Gentleman reLerated over and over
again this same charge against the Government with even
more than usual vehemence—he almost pitied the hand,
but he trembled for the box.—( Loud laughter.) He com-
plained that !his letter had been laid before vie punlie—
it was edit-, sseil to 'the Earl of Glengal, who very carefully
pocketed it—(Laughter)—and it never came before the
public until the Hon. Member for Kilkenny, who certainly
moved for a great many things—( Laughter)—moved for
a copy of the entire correspondence. It was laid before
an " excited" public by being laid before that House
(Chrers, and laughter.) The name of Mr. Bruen had
unwittingly fallen from the Honourable Gentleman.
They had the denial of Mr. 13; uen in that House
that he had ever turned out a tenant of the
name of Murray. H,w were the facts? Mr. Bruen
owed Murry a large sum of money, be brought his action
—it was tried before the late Chief Baron Joy, no violent
Reformer—it was tried before a Jury of the Corporation of
Dublin, no likely enemies to a Tory landlord—yet they.
found a verdict for Murray to the full amount.--( Cheers.)
This was a specimen of an Irish Tor} landlord.—( Cheers.)
The Hon. Member for Belfast had intervened in this dis-
cussion, and talked of parties in Ireland. No one was
more competent to speak in that way, for there was not a
single party to which he had not belonged.—( Cheers.)
He was an Emancipator—(Cheers)—a desperate. Refermer
—(Chters)—a high Orangeman —( Cheers, amidst which
Mr. E. Tennant said " No.") He was not a sworn one
certainly.—( Laughter.) Ile was a Repub!ican, who
talked of the fall of the Peerage, " The tenth trans-
mitters of a foolish face."—( Loud laughter and cheers.)
He had gone round the entire compass.—( Cheering.)
Where was he pointing now ? It was impossible to tell
at the present moment, but when he was convinced that his
present speculation was not a good one, the other side
would have him again.--( Cheers and loud laughter.) If
there was anything wanting to blacken the character of
Ireland, the character of the lion. Member for Kilmar-
nock had supplied it.—( Laughter.) He had brought
forward five or six cases of murder where be had the bold-
ness to assert that the priests had denounced the parties
before they were murdered, but he was not a competent wit-
ness. Could anything be more unfair than the proceedings
of to-night ? In point of fairness, every one of the charges
was substantially a charge against the Government of the
country, and if true, the condemnation of the House ought
to follow ; but it was thought to be the safest way to give
notice of an immaterial return, and then bring forward par-
ticular facts, which could not be answered at the moment.

. -...-...-....
It was a trick, a party trick to increase the prejudice of
England in favour of that faction which bad so long
oppressed and trampled upon Ireland.—( Cheers and cries
of "Oh.") The Hon. Member for Kilmarnock had
_ _ _

talked of Popish lawyers having been appointed to offices.
Who bad been appointed 7 Sergeant Ball, who was
not an agitator, Sergeant Woolfg who was an agitator
during the time of emancipation, but who afterwards de-
serted, and Sir Michael O'Loghlen ; and he appealed to
the Hon. Member for Coltaine, whether a better Judge
had ever sat in the judgment-seat than the latter ?
( Hear)—and that *as what was complained of—the pro-
motion of a Roman Catholic—( cheers).—by advocate
of Christian charity, the Hon. Member for Kilreettock.=
(Cheers.) The Learned Sergeant opposite objected to
the appointment; but did he recollect speaking at a
Brunswick meeting in Cork in 1828 T--( Mr. Sergeant
Jackson intimated that he did not.) Certainly some Ceun•
sellor Jackson did speak—( Loud laughter and cheers)—
and peihapr the Learned Sergeant imagined that if Sir
Michael O'Loghlen bad not succeeded, he might.
Long lists of murders in Ireland had been read-16
murders, forsooth, had been committed in Ireland since
November. Why, 26 murders had been during the same
time perpetrated
_in England, besides 13 fires—one in
"Shaw," Berkshire.—(oh, oh, from the Opposition,
while Mrs O'Cunn..ll I:Aighed heartily with those
about him at the bad pun be had made.) But
in Ireland there were much stronger stimillants to crime
that.' in this country i there- was an absence of all genial,
kindly feeling between the gentry and the people.--
H .ar, hear.) Yet Ireland at least was free from
incendiary fires..--( Hew., hear, hear.) No Govern.
ment had been niote active in the detection of crime
than the present —(" No, no," from the Opposition.)
Hear, bear, from the Ministerial benches.) One great be-
nefit i ffected by the present Government was, that no corn-
plaints of pack: d Juries were made as Under Tory Govern-
:news. The present Government had been the first to
abandon the infamous system of packing Juries by chal-
lenging 6n the part of the Crown.—( Hear.) Now
with regard to the speech he had made about Lord Ox-
mantown—he admitted it, and would repeat it again.
For that Nobleman, under the pretence of finding out the
murderer of Lord Norbury, had atrociously calumniated
the Irish nation.- (" No, no," from the Opposition, and
Ministerial cheers.) His Lordship was seconded, too, by
Lord Charleville—eery feebly to be sure—but the poor
gentleman could not help that.—(Laughter.) As to the
footsteps found near the spot where the murder of Lord
Norbury took place being those of his son, be (Mr
O'Connell) believed it was not 50..--(" Oh, oh," from the
Opposition.)
Mr. Sergeant JACKSON had been asked whether he
had attended a meeting of Brunswickers at Cork in 1828,
against Catholic Emancipation, and he could tell the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman, that he had never at any
public meeting spoken against Catholic Emakcipation, for
his opinions were favourable to it. If, however, he had
had the experience of the last few years, he should cer-
tainly have been opposed to it.—( Hear, bear.) The Hon.
and Learned Gentleman had rambled in a most extraordi-

nary manner from the question before the House. He de-
nied that the Hon. Member for Kilmarnock had objected to
the appointment of Sir Michael O'Loghlin, .who had cut
his (Sergeant Jackson's) acquaintance, because he had

once asked him a question in that House.--(A laugh.)
11e would, however, do him justice to say that he was a

most excellent and upright Judge.—(Cheers from both
sides of the House.) The Honourable and Learned
Member had made most unwarrantable attacks upon
the character of the most amiable and exalted
Nobleman in Ireland. Who was Lord Oxmantown ?