The Sun.
London, England, 1839-02-08 00:00:00

DEVIZES CORN MARKEL' —Ftb. 7

l'er Sack. ---
S. 41. s. (1.1 Per Quarter. s. d. .. d.
First Wheat 17 oto3B 0 'Barley •320 to :19 e
second it 0 3; 0 Oats 2l 0 27 0
Third
1 1 Sacks of Wheat sold 13i 0 i Hour (per bag) _ 0 50 0
at the average of S !Bread (per ga11.)... 1 g _ 0
LEEDS CORN MARK Er. Feb.s
Wheat, Norfolk and Sittlidk, 6011 i.
- York. anti Lincoln. .001 b.
darlcy, Norfolk and Sittliolk .
,--'
--- Yorkshire and Lincolnshire
- Grinding .. '.2Bs. to 30s. ii
!leans
Lug.. 14' t.
: .° ;264' 2. is
. 12.
:1' j
load '.
Oats, Potatoe ..
--Nlcalttig, For. —4. to—al
... Eoreign, 30. to 2 per lke
Slid; ii:erl stone
;11elling
Rapeseed, English, OfT. tc 321
-- --

L•VERPOOL CORN MARKET.—Feb. 0.
WHEAT, English, White, per 701 b.
11% (id to 12L rd,
Red
10 9 is 3
----. Scotch, Welch, and Manx
----- Irish, White lO 0 if es
1
------ Red
10
----- Foreign...—. ! 1 0 3
°xi's, Enidish, Welsh, and Scotch, per 4511 i. ......... 41'0 II 4
9
3 1
Irish 2
---- Foreign
Itaxtrty, English, Malting, per Imp. quarter......... ......... 4 0 0 0
30
—.-- 47 0
otch Irish, per 130110.
t-t atttl
-- Feeding 5 6 6 0
BEAN., English, per Imperial quarter '5l 5 6
2 5 ,
---- Irish, Ike.
41
Foreign - 47
riatic, Englisn, per Imperial quarter 42 0 5, 0
-i, ,
Foreign -• 0 511 0
1.'1.0144, English, per 2tut!b.
Irish ..................
Osimti„ Englis.'i and Irish, per `24iiiii, •.....
•60' 'll 7551 10)
IN' lAN COEN, la I' 141/11/. ............. ... ................ ~..s 6 :14 0
44 0 45 0
RYE, per I mper al quarter
51ALT, per Imperi4l quarter •
nn
--.••••••,........a......=,,...Nra 5" 71 0

the following day.—( Hear.)
Mr. EWART fumed, and Mr. &macs seconded, that
the same gentlemen be authorized to examine into .the
agricultural, as had already investigated the manufac-
turing portion of the question.
The moion Was eanied, and it was agreed that the
questions should be circulated as widely as possible.
The CHAIRMAN said, with regard to the proposed
deputation of delegates to wait upon Lord Melbourne,
it had been a matter much discussed whether the num-
ber should be large or small. No information had ben
yet received from Lord Melbourne on the subject. But
it had been decided that the best way of approaching
his Lordship would be by a deputation of half-a-dozen
from the principal towns ; to give his Lordship such
information as might be useful on this important ques-
tion. It was desirable that this should be done as early
as possible, in order to prevent his Lordship's mind
from being prejudiced by what occurred out of doors.
The Delegate from Huddersfield asked if it had not
been customt.ry not to limit the numbers of a deputa-
tion ? He saw no reason for any limitation of numbers,
unless, which he believed was not the case, Lard
Melbourne desired it.

The CHAIRMAN slid this point had been much dis-
cussed ; and it had been deemed most judicious that
a small deputation should wait upon his Lordship first ;
that did not at all prevent a larger deputation seeing
him subsequently.
Dr. BOWRING observed that a great number of ad-
ditional Delegates would shortly arrive in town.
Mr. STURGE said many points might be discusses'
with Lord Melbourne, by a small deputation, which his
Lordship would not be so ready, perhaps, to enter upon
if a large party were present ; and probably gentlemen
of the press would be present.—( Hear.)
Mr. WEIR then moved that the following gentlemen
be appointed to accompany the Chairman, to wait upon
Lord Melboarne

Mr. Greg, from Manchester ; Mr. Willmsley, from
Liverpool ; Mr. Stansfield, from Leeds ; Mr. Johnson,
from Glasgow ; Mr. Ashworth, from Bolton ; and Mr.
Sturge, from Birmingham.—(Hear.)
Mr. WALTER secondad the motion.

Mr. G. A. YOUNG said he would take that opportu-
nity, not hating attendedgany of the previous meetings
of the Delegates, of stating under what circumstances
he attended there that day. A petition, signed by 20,000
persons had been prepared in the Borough of Mar3le-
bone, and was about to be presented to Parliament—

(Hear, bear)—and he had been requested to attend and
to co-operate with the Delegates.—( Hear, hear.) A
Solicitor and a Counsel bad been appointed by the pro-
moters of the petition, to do all that was necessary for
supporting its prayer at the bar of the House of Com-
mons, and Colonel Thompson had been requested to re-
present the petitioners among the Delegates.—(Hear,
hear.) Two other petitions had been prepared by the
Vestries of Marylebone and St. Pancras, which were not
signed so numerously as the other, because they were
confined to those parizbes.—(Hear, hear.) Various
persons had been employed to go round the parishes,
to procure the copies of the petitions which had been
lying for signatures ; and they bad found a feeling of
surprise fund indignation very prevalent, at the omis-
sion of nil notice of the Corn-laws in the Queen's Speech.
—{Hear, hear.)
The CHAIRMAN—What is the prayer of your petition?
Mr. YOUNG—For a total repeal of the Corn-laws.—
(Hear, hear.) The petition was prepared so long ago
as the month of October, before the present Anti-Corn-
law agitation had commenced. A prayer had since been
added to be heard by Counsel at the bar of the House.
—( Hear, hear.) Mr. Young then read the petition,
which was as follows :
To the Right Honourable the Lords Spiritual and Tem-
poral of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and
Ireland, in Parliament assembled,
The Humble Petition of the undersigned Electors and
Non- Electors resident in the Borough of Marylebone,
Sltlw STH,
That your Petitioners have observed, with the deepest
concern, the recent advance in the price of corn, and the
distress thereby occasioned to the industrial and labouring
population of the United Kingdom.
That under a wise and liberal system of trade, your Pe-

titioners would submit to such a visitation as an unavoid-
able evil ; hut your petitioners cannot conceal from them-
selves, that the disastrous effects of an unfavourable har-
vest are greatly aggravated, if not entirely occasioned, by
the laws restricting the importation of foreign corn—
laws, which seek to promote the supposed exclusive inte-
rest of one class of the community, by forbidding the ap-
plication of the excessive produce of neighbouring States
to the relief of the wants and sufferings of the people.
That justice, sound policy, and humanity, alike demand,
that the principle of leaving commerce unfettered, should
be applied more emphatically to the particular trade on
which the sustenance of the people depends, than to any
other.

That the selfish and impolitic principles on which our
Corn-laws are based, have called into existence, in foreign
countries, political leagues for the exclusion of British
manufactures—have ems- ioned a great and increasing dimi-
nution of our foreign trade—have injured the cause of
European freedom, by enabling despotic Governments to
foment and cherish a feeling of hostility towards the p.mplc
of this country; and have crippled the power and dimished
the influence of Britain, by fettering the industry on which
that power and influence depends.
Deeply impressed with the correctness of these opin:cns,
your petitioners observed with extreme regret and surprise,
at the commencement of the last Session of Parliament,
that the Minister of the Crown, who introduced a Bill
for the Reform of your Honourable House, declared that
the Reform Bill must necessarily give a preponderance to
the landed interest, and that a preponderance in favour of
that interest, tended to the stability of the general interests
of the country. . _

Your petitioners, therefore, respectfully but earnestly,
remonstrate against the continuance of the laws imposing
restrictions on the importation of foreign corn, and humbly
pray that the tame may be entirely repealed. And your
petitioners will ever pray, &e.
The CHAIRMAN asked if it would not be better that
the counsel who had been appointed to act for the dele-
gates should act for the %%bole ?

Mr. You NG replied that he was the counsel appointed
to act for the Marylebone petitioners. He was there
only ministerially, and conp not decide ; hut he was
sure all parties would 1)._! happy to do everything in their
power, by cordial co-operation to promote the general
object.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. GREG observed that there was no Delegate
from London on the deputation,
Whereupon Dr. Bowring WAS appointed in that
capacity, and the names of the deputation were agreed to.
Mr. GREG then read an extract from a letter he had

received from Lancaster, which stated that theAnti-Corn
law advocates had a most successful meeting, although a
considerable opposition had been got up by the Tory party,
who made some able speeches, but several operatives rose
up, and in rough, though able style, answered their ob-
jections ; and a petition had been agreed to, and sub-
scriptions commenced.—(Hear.) They were all very
ardent down there—confident that it was a matter of
life and death.—( Hear.)
Mr. BROOKE, the Delegate from Huddersfield, said
he was sorry that he could not report so favourably
from that town, where, on Tuesday last, a meeting had
been held, and where it had been expected that the
cause would have been supported alike by masters and
operatives. But ho regretted to say that the Chartists
met, and defeated them. Still it was so far satisfac-
tory, that the Chartists admitted that the Corn-laws
were ruinous, though they contended that it was impoli-
tic to apply to the present House of Commons.
Mr. BAINE!, junior, also gave a similar account of
the proceedings at Huddersfield. He added that the
opponents of the Anti-Corn-law agitation there were
most inconsistent—that one day they were for the
wildest Radicalism, and the next for the extreme of
Toryism—and that Mr. Oastler in particular, was their
admired friend and champion.—(Hear, hear.) They
had, however, but a very small majority on this occa-
'Sion ; and for the judgment of men whose conduct was
so contradictory and factious, no great respect could be
entertained.—( Hear, hear.) Even they, however, had
at length come to the conclusion that Corn-lsws were
prejudicial to our manufactures, and that was, so far,
an improvcnlent.—( Hear.)
The CLIAMMAN reported fluiri li.ochdale, that at au

Commons b) Mr. Alderman Poole. No opposition was
off; red to it. Lord Brougham, who was not at that
time in Parliament, appeared as counsel for the peti-
tioners—opened his case clearly and explicitly—sum-
moned his witnesses—and the first witness he call: d
would be also the first witness whom he (Mr. Ewart)
would call on the present occasion, an extensive manu-
facturer in Manchester, Mr. George William Wood.—
(Great laughter.) So that there is not only a prece-
dent as to what to do, but as to who to call.—(Re-
newed laughter.) There could therefore be no doubt.,
that, in praying to be heard by counsel at the bar of
the House, they had' the sanction of precedent. You
can operate on the House of Commons only by means
of the people. You ought not to be stopped by tech-
nical object►ons ; and when the people know that you de
mand inquiry, they will back you. In answer to inquiry
from the Chairman, Mr. Ewart stated that, in the cases
referred to, counsel had been heard on a petition, and
not on the preamble of a Bill.
Mr. WEIR corroborated what had been stated as to

the existence of precedents. The Russian Company
liad been heard by counsel against the Turkey Com-
pany. In 1785, on an inquiry into the operation of
the tax imposed on muslins in the preceding year,
counsel were heard at the bar of the House in oppo-
sition to this tax. They opened their case on the 21st
of March. Witnesses were examined on the sth and
Gth of April. On the Bth counsel commented on the
evidence. Other witnesses were examined at the de-
sire of the Houses and counsel were again heard. In
fact, from the year 1730 down to 1808 cases had
constantly occurred which might be adduced as prece-
dents. But the House of Commons was not, like
'Westminster Hall, tied down to precedents ; it was a
body whose duty it was, if laws and authorities were
bad, to amend them.----(Hear, hear.) We demand as a
right that they shall afford us relief from the operation
of laws which we declare to be destructive to us. If
the House of Commons refuse to grant that which two-
thirds of the community declare to be necessary to
their very existence, it will no longer be a fit body

to govern a people, but will show that it is
legislating only for the sinister purposes of a few indivi-
duals. In this case it will be well for us and the
country to deliberate on the course wo should pursue,
but until we have a deliberate vote of the House of
Commons to that effect he could never believe in the
existence of a body of gentlemen in that House who
would dare thus to resist the wishes of the community.
Dr. BOWRING wished the question would resolve

itself into a question of technicalities and form, but
he was afraid that the resistance would not be made
on these grounds. He hoped that the resistance to
their appeal would produce a reaction which would
convince the House of Commons itself that it could
not safely resist the appeal.
Mr. WALMSLEY was sorry to hear that this line of
I argument hat( been adopted ; he trusted the Home of
Commons would see the necessity of yielding to their
wishes. Before he went to Manchester he would con-
fess that he was in favour of a gradual repeal of the
Corn-laws, but he had now altered his opinion, and in
consequence of the arguments which he had there heard,
he was convinced that the best way was to lima the evil
at once, and demand a total repeal. He (Mr. %V.) was
a perfectly di,,interested individual, he was not connected
with manufactures, but was connected with land and
commerce, lie was convinced that the value of land
would be enhanced by a repeal of the C,,rn-laws. The
landlords themselves should know that they had a much
greater protection than they supposed in the cost of the
transit of grain from the place of its growth to the
place of export ; this protection amounted to eight or
nine per cent., and. in addition they had a protection of
from twenty to twenty-five per cent., which would be
the cost of bringing grain from the port of transit to
this country. It is thought to be a sufficient protection
for them. Whatever was injurious to the manufac-
turer was injurious, in a double degree, to the land-
owner. If they doubted this, let them refer to the
prices of land fifty years ago, previous to the introduction
of manufactures. If manufactures go down, which they
must do under the present Corn-law system, the
landowners must go down with them. The manu-
facturers abroad were desirousthat no change should take
place in our Corn-law system. They were desirous of
a fixed duty. If the landlords understood their own in-
terests they would remove every restraint.

every restraint.
Mr. Wahl*ley then read the following account
of the average prices of wheat during the last eighteen
years, at different places on the Continent, and the ave-
rage amount of charges on it in its transit to this country.
This statement was drawn up by Mr. Sturge and Mr.
Wahnsley, who are both corn-dealers, and may, there-
fore, be considered as founded on the best data :
Average price of Wheat at Dantaic for the last ten years 3Ps. to
405., ending December, 1838.
Average price fur 50 years, ending 1819, 4bs. 4d.

'Ol5l S' -2
p.▪ ;
---
s. d, s. d.!s. d. s. d d. s. d.
Average per quarter ...... 3 6 46'50' 5 0 4 6 12 0
Insurance at 233. to 8/.
per Cent
Expences
Local tines discharging
0 4 04.041 0 4 0 4 0 4
~, .1
Sound dues
Commission 4 per Cent del 1
credere
4 per Cent, for uninsured
risk of damage, heating,
loss of weight, and dete•
rioration
--- -
Totals
9 i 18 0
9 5
10 1 29 1
36 0 Average South of
North of Europe ... 9 94 Europe 14 6

Mr. Jacob's statements as to the quantity of corn
likely to be imported in the event of An orn trade
were greatly exaggerated, an advance of 20 per cent.
was as much as could be calculated on.

Dr. BOWRING said, that the apprehensions of the
agriculturists as to the extension of the means of pro-
duction of corn in foreign countries were un-
founded. In those countries where the serfs pay
their rents to the Lords in the produce of the land,
the difference and the amount of that produce
would not be greatly increased, because the productive
qualities of the land were already pushed to the utmost
extent, but the increased price would increase the riches
of the landlord. This was the case in northern and
central Europe. In the south of Europe the occupier
of land paid the proprietor one-half of the produce as
rent, and most of these lands were not cropped solely with
corn, but were laid out as vineyards, olive-grounds, and in
various other ways, in order if one crop failed another
might succeed. It was not to be supposed that they
would give up their old habits of cultivation, and root
up their olive-grounds and vineyards. He did not believe
that the small addition made by the importation of
grain, would be sufficient to counteract the effect which
would be produced by the increased general consump-
tion of it. The facts thus brought forward would be
substantiated by irresistible evidence, and the agricul-
turist would see that while by a repeal of the Corn-laws
they were doing good to commerce and manufactures
generally, they were at the same time promoting their
own interests.
The CHAIRMAN said that was one view of the ques-
tion, which had been presented to him by a foreign gen-
tleman, and which appeared to be so plain and simple
that he would put it before the Committee. He said
" There is one protection given to the agriculturists
which you never can take from them, and it is the only
protection they are entitled to, viz., the cost of bringing
foreign grain to this country—(Hear, hear)—and that
cost could not be less than 10s. per quarter." Now, as
an acre of ground would grow four quarters of wheat
the protection amounted to 40s. an acre—( Hear, hear)
—and 40s. an acre was more than the average rent
paid for land in this countrv.—(Cries of " Double." If
this was the relation in which the English farmer stood
to the foreign farmer, the English farmer, as it were,
got 114 laud fur nothing, and therefore being merely at

the expense of cultivating it he could better compete
with forcigne:s.
Mr. JOSEPH STURGE corroborated the statement
made by Mr. Walmsley, as to the conversation they
had had that day with a gentleman in the City ; and if
they could only get him at the bar of the House of
C salmons, he was confident that no cross-examination
would shake his testimony. This gentleman also told
them that the merchants of Dantzic generally would
rather give 10s. a quarter more for grain in the port of
exportation than they would for grain in the interior of
the country, before it was brought down the river Vis-
tula. He (Mr. S.) had also put this question to him—
Supposing the population of the country increased
only half a million annually, and it being now proved
that the present growth of wheat, even in a tolerabi
favourable season, did not furnish a sufficient suppl:
what would be the cost of importing 300,000 quarto -
more ? The gentleman laughed at him, and said that
he did not think they would be able to get more than
100,000 additional quarters.—(Hear, hear.) Even
before they could get wheat to Odessa, the prin-
cipal shipping port, they have to bring it 300 or 400
miles overland.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. BawsoN felt highly interested in the statements
made by Mr. Walmsley. At the present moment he
thought it of very great importance, as the branch in,
which he was engaged with many others had from 60
to 80 per cent, of the coat expended in labour ; there-
fore, if 20 per cent. at least (which was a very moderate
estimate) was the lowest sum at which foreign wheat
could bo imported into this country, it would leave an
advantage of about 15 per cent. in favour of the
foreign manufacturer ; and against them in a natural
market : and they would, if the Corn-laws were
abolished to-morrow, lose such branches of their na-
tional industry as these laws had already by offering so
large a premium in favour of our foreign competitors
induced—nay, by excluding their produce—compelled
them to establish, what the difference of the transit
would enable them to continue ; and the immediate
abolition would only save to them such fabrics as re-
quired less labour and more material in the cost .price.
Much had been said as to whether there was or was not
a precedent for hearing evidence at the bar of the
House. Now, he thought that in the history of nations
there never was a case which more imperatively. called
for a precedent to be established than that involved in
this inquiry.—(Hear, hear.) There were gentlemen
present from all parts of the kingdom, and representing
all sorts of manufactures ; and who one and all said,
that their various constituencies were suffering from
foreign rivals, many of them to an extent which threat-
ened them with a speedy expulsion from the foreign—
son:e of them from the home market itself. This
loudly called for a precedent ; and he would ask if the
Houses of Parliament could be employed in a more im-
portant inquiry, or one on which the well-being, nay,
very existence of society depended ?—(Hear.)
Mr. AIKEN wished to give greater publicity than had
yet been afforded to an opinion expressed by one of
their opponents in the House of Lords. In order that
he might make no mistake, he would read it from the
Standard. He wished it to be more generally promul-
gated as a specimen of the arguments of their oppe_
nents—their noble opponents.—(Hear, hear.) In the
Standard of the Gth of February, he found the follow-
ing :—" The Earl of Winchelsea had himself travelled
through many manufacturing districts in that year (1822)
when the price of bread was 3d. to aid. per loaf, and
meat 2d. to lid. per lb., and had never wit-
nessed so much distress as was caused by"—eeba,
would they suppose ? Why, by cheap meat
and cheap bread.—(Great laughter.) He trusted
that the gentlemen connected with the Press,
whose attention might not have been called to
this before, would be kind enough to give it every pub-
licity.—( Hear, and laughter.) A very unwise and a
very impolitic observation had been made in both
Houses of Parliament, that the people were not excited
on this question. Now if there had been one object
more than another which all of them had anxiously had
in view, it was to allay as much as possible the excite-
ment that existed on this subject. Those very men
who opposed the abolition of the Corn-laws, were now
endeavouring to stir up strife and danger, while they
had been doing all in their power to suppress the fer-
ment. If it was necessary to create excitement in
order to get what they wanted, they could very soon act
upon that hint.—( Hear, hear.) But if they did, VS bat
would be the result ? It would then be said "We will
not yield to clamour."—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. BARKER, of Preston, had only as yet heard
but one opinion expressed as to the impolicy of the
Corn-laws, and even the Chartists, although they did
not co-operate with them, were still agreed upon the
impolicy of those laws. Even in the time of the old
House of Commons, when borough nomination pre-
vailed, he did not think the sentiment prevailed
that no confidence could be placed in the House of
Commons.—( Hear, hear.) He hoped the Government
and the House of Commons would be aware that while
the Chartists condemned the Corn-laws, they said they
had no confidence in that House ; and if the House of
Commons refused what was now asked, that evidence
might be given at their bar on the subject of the Corn-
laws, they would do ten times more than the Chartists
had ever yet done to induce people to believe there was
no utility in petitioning them—( Hear)—and the blame
would rest on their own heads.—(Hear.)
Mr. BAINES, Delegate from Leeds, would mention one
striking tact calculated to show the absurdity of the
alarm felt by some of the landowners, that if the Corn-
laws were repealed England would be supplied alto-
gether with foreign corn. To import front abroad the
whole of the grain consumed in this country would require
the continual employnient of a navy twice as large as
the whole mercantile navy of this country.—(Hear.)
The difficulty of bringing corn from ebroad would in
crease in proportion to the quantity this country required:
The meeting then adjourned.