The Sun.
London, England, 1837-02-04 00:00:00

ACT.

On the motion of Lord JOHN RUSSELL, the Bill for
the suspension of the above Act was read a second time.
NATIONAL ASSOCIATION (IRELAND).
_ _

On the House going into a Committee of Supply,
Mr. Sergeant GO ULBURN wished to ask a question of
the Noble Lord opposite, concerting the existence of an Asso-
ciation in Dublin called, he believed, the National Association.
He wished to ask whether that, Noble Lord concurred in the
opinion, which he had certainly beard of having been expressed
in another quarter with great pleasure—whether he viewed
with great regret and great concern the existence arid continu-
ance of that Association ; and whether he was free to admit
there were many parts of the proceedings of that Association
of which he disapproved? He (Mr. G.) was quite sure that,
connected as that Noble Lord was in the administration of
justice in Ire!and, ani bound as he was to uphold the law in
that country, he wonid feel obliged to him for this opportu-
nity of telling the House, and, through the House, the country,
that he concurred in those sentiments delivered in another
quarter which had given so much satisfaction to a great por-
tion of the people of this country.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL did not think that it would be
consistent with public convenience that• he should state to the
House, upon a question being put by an Hon. Member, upon
a report that he had received of what had taken place in the
other House, whether he (Lord John Russell) concurred in
it or not.—(Great cheering, among which Mr. O'Connell's
was most conspicuous). With respect tethe National Associa-
tion of Ireland, and with respect to Ireland generally,
the Hon. Gentleman would have full opportunity of hearing
his (Lord John lZu7sell's) opinion upon those subjects, if he
would attend that House on Tucsdny next—( Cheers) when it.
was his intention to bring in a Bill with respect to Municipal
Corporations in Ireland, and when he should state fully his en-

tire opinions with respect to the state of IrelaA, and for the
opinions he should then state he should be responsible • but
he could not undertake to say, from reports of what had
delivered elsewhere, that he should be precisely of the same
opinion.—(Much cheering).
Mr. SergeantGOULDURN considered he was strictly

in order in complaining of nay thing he might think wrong,
when a mction for a supply to his Majesty was before the
House.—( Hear, hear ) He was not singular in his opinion ;
he agreed with the Prime Minister, for he viewed with
very great concern and alarm the existence of this As-
sociation__( Hear, hear, hear.) Many of its acts were of
a most airrming nature, an.l in his opinion were perfectly il-
legal. With great deference to the Noble Lord he must say
that the answer he .had received was not an answer ; it had
much the appearance of an evasion.
Mr. HUME thought the Learned Gentleman had got as good
an answer as he had a right to expect. During the whole of hip
(Mr. Home's) experience in that House he had never heard

such a question asked. He did not know that any such opinion
as the Learned Gentleman had stated, had been given by the
Prime Minister; but if so—if such an opinion had been given,
he (Mr. II.) must say that it was a very indiscreet one.—
( Loud cheers from the Oppoz-,ition, and cries of " Hear.")
Ile had not the advantage, like the Learned Gentle_
min, of knowing all the acts cf that Assocation —( Hear)—hut
judging from what came before the public through the usual
vehicles, he entirely approved of its proceedings.—( Cheers. )
In his opinion that Association had preserved the peace of
Ireland i,fter the atrocious insults which had been offered to her

at the end of the last Session.—( Hear.) Let the opposite party
say what they would, Ireland never was so quiet under any
Govtyrnment as it was now. There has been no alteration in

the laws.—it was by moral justice that the result had been
brought about. She remained peaceable and quiet because they
had a moral certainty that the Viceroy would do all in his power
to put an end to the system of blundering and mistakes, to
call them by no worse names, which bad preceded his Go-
vernment. The sooner the Learned Gentleman brought tho
question before the House the better—it would be found there
were more instances of good arising from the Association than of
evil, and it would be also found that more of those who used

.....__ ..--
to belong to the exclusive party were joining the present As-
sociation than had ever joined any former one.—( Cheers.)
Mr. O'C 0 EL L not only highly- approved of what had
been done by the Association, but he had heartily
joined in A laugh)—he did not know whether
the opinion alluded to by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman,
had been delivered or not by the Prime Minister, nor did he
much care. He rather feared that it had been exaggerated. At

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all events, he was highly delighted with the proceedings of the
Association, and when any specific charge was brought against
it, he would be prepared to satisfy the country that it
was not only legal, but had been most useful. The Associa-
tion had this feature about it, that whereas the Catholic Asso-
ciation had not one-fourteenth of its number Protestant, this
Association, on the contrary, had more than one• third of its
members Protestant, and those, too, men of rank, property,
and intelligence, and the number was increasing every day.—
( Loud cheers.) This afforded a hope that Ireland would at
1 length become one country, instead of being divided into a fac-
tion on the one hand, and the people on the other.—( Loud
cheers.) The proceedings in that Association were open as
day—they courted publicity in every discussion, and he
would say that he believed the utmost possible facility
was given to every person to know what was done amongst
them. That Association had sprung from a just sense of
wrong, aggravated by insult.—( Loud cheers from the Irish
Members.) There had been found men audacious enough to
assert that Irishmen were aliens in religion, in language, and
in blood.—( Renewed cheers.) There had been found a
party atrocious enough to join with the individual who had
dared to make use of that insult, and though the blood of
Irishmen boiled, yet they had learned in the school of adversity
to controul and regulate their feelings. ( Hear, hear.) That
Association was determined to obtain justice. (Cheers.)
They were determined to obtain an equalization in the privi-
leges enjoyed by Scotchmen and by Englishmen, and if they
could not obtain justice otherwise, they were determined to
have it by a domestic legislature. The Union should not be
a mere paper and parchment Union—it should not be
a union of insult and degradation. The people of Ireland
hoped for justice in a complete union; and if they could not
obtain a complete union, he would never despair of the exer-
tions of seven millions of men iu obtaining justice for them-
selves.—( Loud cheers.)
Mr. SHA W said that it was extremely inconvenient to have
an incidental discussion on the subject of the National Asso-
ciation. At the same time he trusted the House would not
consider that he shrunk from such a discussion, or that it
should it be supposed for a moment that he acquiesced in the
sentiments of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman the Member
for Kilkenny. For his own part, he could not help saying
that he believed that Association to be wholly inconsistent with
the regular administration of justice, or the peace of Ireland.
It seemed to him that that Association assumed to itself all
the functions of Government--the power of raising taxes
and assessing the people at their pleasure.—(Loud -
cries of Hear, hear.) The Hon. and Learned Gentleman had
charged others with making use of expressions of which he had
himself often been guilty. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman
had frequently called Englishmen Saxons, and Sasscnachs,
and strangers; and surely these expressions justified the insult
of which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman appeared to be so
sensitive. With regard to the observation of the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman, that this Association was intended to pre-
vent a repeal of the Union, had not the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman said over and over again—had he not written these
words—" That under no circumstances, no matter what was
done by England or by Parliament, would he ever be content