The Sun.
London, England, 1839-07-17 00:00:00

particular attention to the language used in that Political
Union, and it was as violent as that used by the Chartists.
Yet these were the very men selected by the Government
to fill the office of Magistrates.'
Lord MELBOURNE—The Noble Duke said there
was a deficiency of activity on the part of the Magistrates,
and he said that he could find no case parallel with it. Had
the Noble Duke forgot the unfortunate affair at Notting-
ham, where a mill was burnt, while two troops of yeo-
manry were standing round, and within sight.—
( Hear, hear, hear.) No doubt, they had acted
under mistake as to the law, but they thought they could
not act without the orders of a Magistrate.—(Cireers.)
These things arose suddenly, and be was informed
that the police waited in this case also for the
orders of the Magistrates, who were not quite pre-
pared, not expecting any tumult that night.
He was not fully informed on the subject—
( Hear, hear, hear)—and could not explain the matter
either clearly or satisfactorily. He could easily conceive
that a serious riot might arise without any fault at-
taching to the conduct of the Magistrates. It might
be attributable either to error or a mistake. He did
not know whether that was so on the present occasion.,
but it had been so in former times. As at present
informed, he knew not what term to apply, but ho was dis-
posed to say it arose from timidity, and nut from any indis-
position on the part of the Magistrates to du their duty.
The Noble Duke had said he had found no parallel to this
outrage, even in towns which had been taken by storm,
where there had been two houses burnt.
Lord LYNDHURST—Thirty.
Viscount MELBOURNE—The Noble and Learned
Lord would hare an opportunity of addressing the House
presently. He should think that in a town taken by storm
rather more carnage would occur than had taken place in
Birmingham ; and the thing was sufficiently lamentable
without persons of the authority and station of the Noble
Duke indulging in violent exaggeration. Then as
to the Magistracy—in appointing the alsgistrates every
thing had been dune with the utmost fairness. The
persona appointed were persons of great respectability,
who either resided in the town or near the town, or who
had a fair ehare in the business of the town. Such had
been the composition of the Magistracy ; and with respect
to the other matters of complaint, that some of those per-
sons had been members of the Political Unions, and had used
violent language—his (Lord Melbourne's) opinion on that
subject ;vas, that it, ought not to be a disqualification to serve
as a Magistrate. if the follies of nature were to operate as
a disqualification, and they were only to appoint those who
had acted prudently, he was afraid they would be put to
very great difficulty in finding Magistrates, because
if he had Zo look in particular to the town of Bir-
' minabagi for persons of sound discretion, for persons
who had never committed errors, who had never used
violent language, or had never written dangerous or ex-
travagarw theories, he confessed he should not know where
to find them.—( Laughter.)
The Duke of WELLINGTON was rather surprised
that the Noble Lord, considering the situation he held,
should only have known of the state of things in Birming-
ham by the accounts he had seen—(Cheers)—and that he
should not know at all whether the riots were owing to
the absence of Magistrates, or the absence of troops, or to
the fault of the troops standing by, or to anything
similar to that which bad happened some years ago
at Nottinglim.—(l-fear, hear, bear.) The Noble Lord
knew nothing at all about the matter.—( Loud cheers )
That was not the way in which a country shonld be go-
verned. Hear, hear.) He had never known a
town so treated as Birmingham in these transac-
tions. The Noble Viscount knew little about it,
but supposed it to be cnly a couple of houses burnt. Why
houses had keen " gutted," and the material burnt in the
middle of the street. Itly Lords (said the Noble Duke
with emphasis) that is an outrage winch I never knew
before committed in this country.---( Hear, hear, hear.)
And not till this had been done was there any appearance
of a proper force. to preserve peace. These things have
been going on, and the Government know nothing and do
nothing.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.")
Viscount MELBOURNE instantly rose, with every
sign of great excitement, and said, Why does the Noble
Lord say that ?—( Loud cries of " Hear, hear," from the
Ministerial Benches.) When did these things happen ?
The night before last l--( Hear, hear.) How is it possible
that the Govt. rraneet could have hitherto done anything in
the matter ? Loud cries of " Hear, hear, bear.")
Why does the Noble Duke say that nothing has been done?
Why should he suppose that nothing will be done by the
Government ?—( Hear, hear, hear.) During the time these
riots have occurred in Birmingham every step possible has
been taken by the Government to prevent such outrage.
What is the reason that the Noble Duke imagines the Go.
vernment trill neglect their duty ? My Lords, I say that the
Gus ernment have never neglected their duty—( Laughter
from the Oppasition)—with regard to the preservation of
the peace—( Hoer, bear,)—and the Not le Duke has no
right to assume that we shall neglect our duty in future.—
( Hear, hear.)
The Duke of WELLINGTON—I say, my Lords, that
these riots have prevailed fur the last ten days, and no steps
have been taken to put them down effectually—to purrish
the Magistrates, who have neglected their duty, or those
who have taken part in the riots, several of ahem are now
in Warwick Jail.—(Hear, hear.)
Earl FITZ aCILLIIA \l cad not think the conduCt of the
Nelae Duke en this occasion was quite fair, in wishing to
runish the Magistrates. What right had the Noble Duke
to assume that they lied not done their duty? It was
merely an assumption, which the Noble Duke made, and
he (Earl Fitz illiam) and their Lordships had as much
right to assume the contrary.—( Hear, hear.) It ap-
peared to him that the Noble Duke, in his desire to make
chareee on this occasion Ladlost sight el a bet was just to
these parties. If they had been criminal, that they ought to
be punished there could be no doubt, but it savoured
somewhat of injustice towards the Magistrates of Birming-
ham to say that it was a charge against the Government
that they had not punished the Magistrates for that neglect
of duty which the Noble Duke at the present moment was
incapable of substantiating against them. But let him
recal the recollection of the Noble Duke and the Lord
Lieutenant of Warwickshire to the fact that this was not the
first riot which had taken place in the town of Birmingham
which had been attended with consequences as disastrous
as those which had now taken place, which, on compari-
son with those to which lre had alluded, were not worth
mentioning.—( Hear, hear.) And let them consider under
whose auspices, and under what Government this had taken
place. Let bins call the recollection of the Noble
Lord, who must be better acquainted with the history
of Warwickshire than he could possibly be, that in
1769 or 1790.—(" Oh, oh," from the Tory side of the
House.) Tne Noble Lord did not like to have that re-
called to his recollection, when the High Church mob
destroyed the houses of Dr. Priestley and those who enter.
tained opinions similar to these which he held. If his Noble
Friend were to be blamed for what had now occurred,
let the same test be applicable to the Ministers of that day ;
and he should like to know if the Noble Lord would try
and condemn them on the same test. All he asked was
that Neale Lords should recollect that similar eccurrences
had taken place at another time, and if any charge was
now made a similar one ought to recoil on those who were
in authority at that time. He trusted that justice would
be done to all parties who had been guilty of this outrage ;
and if it could be proved that there had been any criminal
negligence on-the part of the Magistrates, that these Ma-
gistrates bad connived at the outrages of the people, had
wilfully and intentionally connived at them, then let them be
tried and punished, but not at the present moment when
nothing whatever was known of the real facts of the case.
Tire Marquis of LONDONDERRY could not help
being struck with the degree of lightness with which the
Noble Viscount had treated this subject, and also the nature
of the answer he had given to what had been stated by the
Noble Duke. These riots bad been going on in Birmingham
for days, and yet tire Noble Viscount could not now tell in
what state the town was at this moment. There was not a
Noble Lord in the House who was not equally well in-
formed upon that point with the Noble Viscount. What a
larneetabie instance, of ignorance did this present on the
part of Government. But after so much had been said
about Birmingham, he would ask the Noble Viscount if
he had any accounts from Newcastle and Sunderland ?
Had the Noble Viscount any information of the number
of pitmen that were now assembling in those places,
as the Chartists were doing in Birmingham ; and
were any preparatory measures being taken to pre-
vent ae outbreak of such conduct as had been
shown at Birmingham? These thinge were not to be
treated in the light way the Noble Viscount would at-
tempt to get over them. It might ba very well for him
to treat his (the Noble Marquis's) statements of the atro-
cities that were perpetrated in Spain with lightness, and in
his usual good natured way ; but ho might rest assured
that such a mode of dealing with such things would not do
for the people of England.
Lord MELBOURNE did not remember ever having
treated any statement of the Noble Marquis of the atro-
cities in Strain, or any other atrocities, with lightness. He
hal certainly had information from the towns which tae Noble
Marquis had mentioeed that a great deal of alarm existed
there, and of course measures would be taken to preserve
the peace of those towns.
Lord WEI ARNCLIFFE was surprised that the Noble
Viscount should suppose that the people of Bawling.
ham, who had been all their lives used to agita-
tion, should all at once calm down and obey the
authority of the law. The manner in which the Magis-
trates of that town had been appointed anti acted
was not at all calculated to appease the people, and it was
his firm b..lief that the manner in which Magistrates had
been appointed in all the towns that had received Corpo.
rations, and the party course they had adopted, had led to
all the disturbances that had taken palace.—( Hoar.)
The Marquis of LANSD 0 WNE did not rise to offer
any opinion to the House upon what had passed at Bir-
mingham, as he was confident that to form any
thebe town. (xeeediletgi laynyuNnj.oubstle tzowidar,dasctitnhge
oapliiingliosetratwe'seeoltd'
upon the advice of the Noble Marquis, did form an opinion
and act - lron it, they would in the highest degree be
chargeable with a rash exercise of their functions. He
rose merely, without entering upon the question, to state
how iiaproper it would be for the Goverumeut to
pronouece any opinion upon what had taken place.
The last accounts of what passed at Birmingham, were
half-past twelve from the Mayor of Birmingham, and at
half- past two accounts were received from the Super-
intendant of Police. Both the Mayor and the Seper-
intendant of Police stated that it was impossible for them
to bring the whole of the facts under .the considera-
tion of the Government, because they were actively
engaged in preserving the peace of the town. Were trey
or were they not right in having thus devoted themselves to
preserve the public peace? He concluded that such was
the case, and it wou:ki be for them afterwards to make their
statement to the Government in such a way as that it could
be acted upon, but-they certainly ought not to proceed to
punish upon imperfect accounts received ten hours after
' the occurrences had taken place.
The Duke of WELLINGTON would repeat what be
had before stated, notwithstanding the correction of the
Noble Viscount, that the occurrences were known before
twelve o'clock, because he had been shown them
in the public Papers. It was said there were plenty
outrage had been committed—
town a gross
n burnt, houses gutted, and the propert 1 obrought
boutbaudt y
into the streets and consumed ; and he would
troops

No. 14.621.

LONDON, WEDNESDAY, JULI 17, 1839.

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But in 1817 the Legislature began to meddle with the
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HOUNE OF LORDS, JULY 16.
The LOhD CHANCELLOR took his scat on the Woolsack
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The Eat' of RIPON presented a petition from the
Aborigines Society on behalf of the Canadian natives.
The Earl of RODEN presented a petition from Bristol
against the Prisons Bill. Also several petitions in favour
of a better observance of the Sabbath.

The Duke of RUTL AND presented a petition from
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A Message from the Commons brought up the Muni-
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