The Sun.
London, England, 1839-07-23 00:00:00

tish service, being the ultimate referees. Claims had
been ascertained as stated by the Gallant Officer, and
certificates issued in consequence, but owing to the
state of penury of the Spanish Government, it was not
easy to obtain payment, and he feared that some of
their certificates would be disposed of at less than the
nominal price, and he hoped that that would ulti-
mately prove the real value—and he hoped that
the claimants would not, by any prospect at present,
be induced to dispose of the certificates. No exertion
should be wanting on the part of the Government to
enforce these claims, although there were persons who
had prior claims on the Spanish Government.
Captain BOLDERO hoped that the claims of the
Legion would have priority over those of the merchants
in the city who had advanced money to the Spanish
Government.

Lord PALMERSTON had not alluded to the
claims of persons who had advanced money to the
Spanish Government, but to those persons who had
claims on that Government in consequence of
acts of violence on the part of the Spanish Government
and which was guaranteed to these individuals by treaty.
In answer to a question from Lord SANDON,
Lord PALMERSTON stated, that great efforts
had for some time been making to induce the Spanish
Government to enter into a commercial treaty with this
country, which would no doubt be very advantageous to
the Spanish Government, because they would then be en-
abled to derive a revenue from that trade which was
now wholly in the hands of smugglers. But in that, as
in other countries, there were old interests connected
with systems of abuse that it was exceedingly difficult
to overcome. Catalonia was imagined to produce ma-
nufactures which were sufficient for the supply of Spain,
whereas the greater part of those very manufactures
were smuggled from England into Catalonia ; he had,
therefore, no hope that a commercial treaty would be
concluded,at present between the countries.
BANK OF IRELAND.

In answer to a suggestion from Lord J. RUSSELL,
Mr. HUME agreed that the debate on the Irish
Bank should come on upon Thursday.
Mr. O'BRIEN remarked that it would be as well if
all the Irish Bills now before the House came on upon
the same day.---(Hear, hear.)
IRISH CONSTABULARY BILL.

On the Order of the Day for bringing up the Report
on the Irish Constabulary,

Mr. W. S. O'BRIEN said it had been represented
that the effect of the Irish Constabulary Bill would be
to reduce the expense of the police, whereas the ex-
pense had gradually increased. He thought the Go-
vernment should endeavour to keep down the expense
as much as possible—(Hear, hear)—and accede, if
feasible, to the suggestion of the Hon. Member for
Kilkenny, that this expense should be brought annually
under the control of Parliament, instead of being
thrown upon the Consolidated Fund.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. GOULBURN said he understood that the
debate upon the Bill was to be taken upon the second
reading.—(Hear, hear.) The object of the Bill was
to enable the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland to raise a
" reserved" police force, to be trained and armed under
his controul—to act in any part of the country. Now
that he considered a novel and very objectionable
principle, which he should take the proper opportunity
of resisting.
Mr. HUME had been anxious to have a discussion
on this Bill, and for that purpose he had watched it with
great care, but it had been brought forward at such times
as to render it impossible. The Bill was a most important
one, inasmuch as it sanctioned the Government in hav-
ing a regular army of the police, without the knowledge
of that House. He had taken the sense of the House
with respect to the London police, and would do so
with respect to the Irish. He trusted some time would
be fixed for the purpose of discussing the principles of
the Bill.
Mr. MORE O'FERRALL said that the principle
of the Bill might be discussed on the second reading.
Mr. HUME said that he should now move that the
words be struck out which enabled the advance to be
made out of the Consolidated Fund. He
thought that all sums applicable for such a pur-
pose should be granted by that House alone. He
had heard nothing stated in support of the extraor-
dinary proposition. It was not his intention to object
to the formation of this force, but all he wanted was,
that there should be an annual vote, in order that they
might once a year have an opportunity of discussing it.
Mr. GOULBURN agreed with the Hon. Member
for Kilkenny in the objection he made ; but as it had
been understood that the Report was to be brought up
without a division, and as the Noble Lord the Secre-
tary for Ireland was not present, he hoped the Hon.
Member would withdraw his opposition.
Mr. HUME said, if it was understood that he would
have an opportunity of discussing the subject in a full
House, he would withdraw all opposition for the present.
'Mr. NV A.KLEY hoped a division would take place
on the subject then, because they had a full
House, and he did not believe there would
be so many Members present at any future
period of that Session.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.)
They ought, then, to determine the principle whether
payment was to be made out of the Consolidated Fund,
or by annual payments, and he hoped a division would
take place at once.—(Hear, hear, and No, no.)

Mr. M. O'PERRALL hoped a division would not
be pressed in the absence of the Noble Lord the Secre-
tary for Ireland.

Mr. HUME—Then the better way would be to ad-
journ this debate till the Noble Lord is in his place.
But be was willing to adopt whatever course might
be most convenient.

Mr. WAKLEY could not withdraw his opposition.
He thought this principle was of so serious a nature,
and one so fraught with evil consequences, that he could
not consent to the House
passing these resolutions
sub silentiu.
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, but no
division took place.
On our readmission to the Gallery, we found Sir R.
PEEL on his legs, (who, we presume, had been ad-
dressing the House during our exclusion,) stating that
he could not consent, without more discussion
than the subject had received, to extinguish alto-
gether a proposal connected with the maintenance
of the public credit. He thought it was wise if the
discussion should take place on the second reading, and
he could not see the propriety of dividing the House
at the present moment.
Mr. WAKLEY hoped he might not be understood
as having opposed the increase of force. No man was
more anxious for the public peace than himself, and no
man believed less than he did that anything tending
to disturb the public peace, could be beneficial to the
country. All he objected to was the mode of pay-
ment, and that the vote was not to be annually.—(Hear,
hear.) This House ought to have some controul as to
the mode of payment.—(Hear, hear.) After what had
passed, if it was understood that Honourable Members
would be there to discuss the question, and that there
would be a discussion on the subject, due notice being
given, he would not press a division then, but he was
determined, if no other Hon. Member did so, he would
take the sense of the House on the propriety of the
mode of payment proposed.
Sir R. PEEL begged to state that he hail not the
slightest intention of insinuating even that the Ho-
nourable Member was not disposed to take measures
for the public tranquillity, and he also begged to state
that he did not differ from the Honourable Gentleman
as to the propriety of taking the sense of the House on
this proposition.
Mr. FRENCH wished to observe that this measure
was not called for in consequence of the state of Ire-
land ; that country was perfectly tranquil and quiet.—
' (Hear, from the Ministerial benches, and cries of " Oh"
from the Opposition benches.)
Mr. C. BUL LER begged to withdraw the Regis-
tration (Courts of Appeal) Bill. ' He thought it was
necessary to have a change of the whole Registration
system, and he trusted that the question would be
brought forward by the Government early next Session,
The Order of the Day was then discharged.
POSTAGE BILLS.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
moved the Order of the Day for the second reading of
the Postage Duties Bill.
Mr. G. PALMER begged to call the attention of
the Right Hon. Gentleman to the question of whether
the penny postage on letters sent by the cross post was
to be charged an additional penny to the one penny to
be charged generally ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
it was not the intention of the Government to add the
penny to that charged for the general postage.
The Order of the Day having been read,
Mr. GOULBURN said that, having stated his
opinions upon the general subject only upon a late occa-
sion, it was not his intention to trouble the House at
any great length. He must say, however, that he
never saw a Bill which dealt more summarily with the
revenues and resources of the country than that
one did. It was said that at present the Government
Lad the power to reduce the postage : no doubt they
had ; and he begged to call the particular attention of
the House to that fact, for it was evident that the
Treasury dare not exercise the power, it was so foolishly
extensive. The Government had never yet acted upon
it, and the 34th William IV. and the Ist
Victoria gave no power to the Treasury either
to remit or increase any part of the duty.
That Bill passed the House on the 12th of July, 1837,
and the date was of importance, for on some day in
July notice was given that it was expedient to regulate
East Indian postage, and a resolution was submitted
that that should be fixed at a particular rate. It
passed without observation ; a Bill was brought in
founded on that resolution, and he never thought of look-
ing into it to find a general power of reducing colonial
and inland postage. But when the Bill was brought in
it was an Act to impose rates and packet postage on
East Indian letters, and to amend certain Acts relating
to the Post-office.—(Hear.) This was a power ob-
tained by deceiving the House in the first in-
stance.—(Hear, hear, hear.) With respect to the
present Bill he had only to say that in an arrangement
of this complicated nature there never was a Bill of this
nature submitted to Parliament. They were about