The Sun.
London, England, 1863-11-25 00:00:00

THE SON, LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, NOVEMBBII 25, 1863.

ever, were, as might alme)st have been anticipated,
under existing circumstances, more effective than
his colleague's milder way of putting things,
although Mr. ARIGHT was there not among his
own, but in the midst of that same colleague's,
constitur:nts. Referring, as he could hardly fail to
do upon the occasion of such an opportunity, to
Lord JOHN RUSSELL, as Mr. BRIGHT still persisted,
as, "if from the mere force of habit, in calling him, the,
hon. member adds,thus to one such mention of "Lard
JOHN RUSSELL—now, I am sorry to say, no ',wager
known by his old name, but as Earl RUSSET.A. of the
Foreign Office !" Referring to the fact '.hat since
1830 the wheel has been entirety turned
mostly at the top of
round, the -Whigs being
it, and the Tories mostly at the bottom,RlGui
charming is the naïveté with which Mr. B
adds, "Now the Whigs when they are in office are
not precisely the same kind of people as they are
when they arc out of office. Their contentment is
something wonderful. They believe that the Con-
stitution has then attained its highest excellence."
Capital, too, was his description of the excitement
created in the region of the Pall-Mall Clubs at the
time of a change in the Administration. " You
have no idea," said he to the eagerly-listening elec-
tors of Rochdale," of the scene there is in the clubs
in London when it is a question of who shall
come in. I know what sort of a scene it
is at the Reform Club. There are a great
many men at the Reform Club who look with in-
, tense interest to the appointment of what they call
a Liberal Government, and it especially causes
great excitement amongst expectant lawyers. And
' I believe at the Carlton Club it is very much the
same; there is just us much excitement; and the
hall of the club is like an exchange or a fair, and
everybody has a rumour." As a matter of course,
' the noble earl the Foreign Secretary was
the object of one or two very wholesome
comments in regard to his speech at Blairgowrie,
and for his unlucky blurting out from under the
shadow of his Earl's coronet, and from within the
cincture of his blue ribbon, the rather selfish senti-
ment of "Rest and be thaukful I'' Perhaps the most
noticeable passage in the whole of Mr. COBDEN'S
speech was that in which the negotiator of the
French Treaty—a treaty of which, by the way,
he frankly spoke last evening as "an extraneous
and rather exceptionable proceeding"—remarked in
regard to NAPOLEON'S recent proposition, " I would
not be thought to say one word against the project
of the Emperor of the FRENCH to hold a Congress ;
there is one passage in his address which prevents
my treating it with unqualified opposition or
indifference. For the first time a great poten-
tate, the head of the most military and powerful
nation in Europe, has called a Congress, to
devise, among other measures, the means of
reducing those enormons standing armaments
which are the curse and peril of Europe at this
time." In regard not only to the Congress, how-
ever, were the remarks of Mr. COBDEN directed
last evening. Ho and his distinguished colleague
took within their ken, one after another, the prin-
cipal subjects of interact—some of them of vital
import—to which popular attention is just now
directed in various parts of the habitable globe—in
Europe, Asia, America, even at our antipodes.

Every honest Englishman respects plain speak-
ing ; and a man who boldly and consistently stands
by his own opinions is never likely to be the loser
in public estimation, even though the cause which
he advocates or the principles which he upholds
should be on the unpopular side. In accordance
with theory, therefore, Mr. BENTINCK'S speech at
Taunton may be read with interest, and not alto-
gether with dissent, by what he terms " advanced
Liberals." It is true, that in these days the old
party wall has been broken down, and there is no
longer the old division between Whig and Tory,
but a general advocacy of the same principles and
an attempt to outbid each other on the same
grounds. Mr. BENTINCK, however, accepts no such
compromise, at least in terms. He proclaims him-
self to be "an old Tory." " I have never," he says,
" been ashamed of my principles ; on the contrary,
I have always been very proud of them;" and ac-
cordingly he proceeds to examine the questions of
the day freely and fearlessly. When we come to
examine his views, however, it appears that Mr.
BENTINCK'S Toryism is not altogether of the old
school, however honourably and consistently he
may have advocated them. It has often been sup-
posed, he tells us, that " a Tory is a monster of
corruption, favouring only reaction, extravagance,
and war;' but his ideas of Toryism are quite
different. On the principle of the saying
that the Evil One ought not to have all
the good tunes to himself, which, by the
way, Mr. BENTINCK does not attribute to its
right author, he does not see why his opponents
should have all the good cries, and s) he inscribes
on his banner the sotto of " Reform, Retrenchment,
and Peace,." It is something for an old Tory to
admit that these are good cries, and it proves that
the.work of reform has really gone on not only in
the policy of the country but in the principles of its
very opponents. Mr. BENTINCK, while on the sub-
ject of Reform, naturally refers to that ingenious
little piece of political sleight of hand which dis-
placed the DERBY Cabinet. The memorable meet-
ing at Willis's Rooms which decided that Lord
DERBY'S Reform Bill did not go far enough,
apparently fixed the point to be reached at a very
great distance, seeing that no subsequent efforts
have been made to reach it. The remarkable con-
versions of active Reformers into " Rest-and-be-
thankful" Conservatives could not, of course, be
passed over, and accordingly Mr. BENTINCK begs
to point out that these recruits have deserted from
their own ranks—their presence on his side of the
battle is not due to any lowering of his standard.
The recenttabcr speeches of some of the chief
„lolaa:err the so-called Liberal party were
ton, Nv h 0 "1 on by the member for Tann-
in
ehroftrmarked that they were all ready to
join
Our foreign 7,,l.vvith their leader at Blairgowrie.
ic
too apt to threat,:o he
justly stigmatised as being
instanceg of these alfi:,
and to
tlttl,e weak and to submit to the
Principle for popularity.
of policy
pursued
he cited the very diffe-
Isntron
questions, itl
t'lli
eon the Brazilian and
oArtemhneterrliiien:aenrty's ships am iutlienteacase we seized the
to be seized
other eve allow our merchant
ahr.eptisals ; in the
Such is the
ade quite or legal roat,t:llP.
difference between the course to be followed
without
the strong and the 'weak ; but the country is
be thankful under Ety, is
"t
disposed to " rest and .
-Y such
un question, so far .
policy." The American .s it re-
gards English vessels, whether on the high
'efts or
in the docks, is likely to be the Ministerial 11411,
culty of the opening of the session. Greet dissatis-
faction was expressed last year ; but the storm has
been gathering ever since, anti the steam rams of
Birkenhead may prove as formidable in a moral
point of view to their aeseulters as they are intended
to bQ in a literal sense. " I do not think it possible,''
said Mr. BENTINCK, "by any act to conciliate the
affection of the Federals. They are strongly' pre-
judiced against us, and we must show them that
JcatN BULL is not in the least atraid of JONATITAN."
it is a pity that such
our Ministers sentiments were not shared
by
'Whose anxious couresy and ready

subservience have been about as successful with the

JONATHAN in question, as our attempts at con-
ciliation have been with the Maories of New Zea-
land. On douiestic matters, Mr. BENTINCK, on
behalf of the " old Tories," shows a fair spirit of
moderation and good sense. He declares himself in
favour of progressive changes, although opposed to
'chose violent innovations which are calculated to
produce either a dominant democracy or a military
despotism. Such Toryism as this, although it may
not keep pace with the theories of the day, is yet a
useful element in our political system. It seems as
wholesome ballast to keep the great vessel of State
steady in her course, and acts as a counterpoise to
those too eager and adventurous spirits who are
willing to adopt theories untested by practice. If
it hinders sometimes the introduction of beneficial
changes, we may at least rely on it for preserving
intact those great fundamental principles of English
freedom which are the glory of our Constitution.

If we are to believe all that is said by certain
public speakers on behalf of the efficacy of our
navy at the present time, we may well congratulate
ourselves on the result of the energy of our present
Administration, and the ability of the officials at
Whitehall and in the dockyards. But, alas, it is
too evident to all on which side of the case these
gentlemen hold their briefs. In fact, like many
able wearers of the long robe, they speak to order,
and it becomes a journalist, in reviewing their
reaiarks, to blow away the froth, as it were, of their
speeches, and to elucidate as far as possible'the gist
of their arguments. There can be no doubt that the
speeches of Mr. LAIRD and others have very much
annoyed certain parties. In fact, Lord CLARENCE
PAGET has admitted as much, but recently, to hie
constituents at Sandwich. He observed—" Our
officers are anxious to notice these attacks, but the
invariable course of the Admiralty is to forbid them
to notice them." Such a course may be prudent,
no doubt, but it is a pity that when two gentlemen
of such professional experience as Lord CLARENCE
PAGET and Mr. REED address public meetings
upon naval matters, they should not compare
notes beforehand, and concoct the best defence
possible, and support each other in it. As the
case stands, Mr. REED, at Greenwich, and Lord
C. PAGET, at Sandwich, both declare the Prince
Consort to be a miracle of a ship—both admit that
she nearly went to the bottom—but each ascribes
a different cause for the mischance; and we are
sorry to say that, in our opinion, both excuses are
equally fallacious, It is all very well for a mem-
ber of Parliament to dilate to a seacoast consti-
tuency, or for the constructor of the navy to ad-
dress an assembly at the Greenwich Institute. In
both cases parties come to listen and applaud, not
to cavil and argue ; and all depart satisfied,
little caring whether the assertions of the
speaker be correct or otherwise. He has entertained
them, and that is sufficient. Let common sense,
hewever, review the long list of an invincible navy,
as it is in existence and in embryo, and what is the
result ? We have four iron. clad first-class vessels
which have been to sea, two built of iron, the
Warrior and the Black Prince, and two wooden
ships plated with iron, the Royal Oak and the Prince
Consort. Another wooden ship, the Caledonian, is
likewise afloat and preparing for sea ; there are also
several iron ships of various dimensions in course of
construction, in a more or less advanced state, while
while two other timber-built ships are in process of
conversion. These vessels are all built upon the
ordinary principle of men-of-war, except that the
tonnage of the Warrior and Black Prince is double
that of ordinary first-rates, and forms a kind of con-
necting link between them and the Great Eastern,
as they are also cased with heavy iron plating.
Lord C. PAGET tells us the Government will not be
led away by anyone to adopt any new mode of
conversion, or innovation on the existing mode of
construction, however high may be the standing of
its supporters, but will adhere to the straight-
forward principle of deciding for themselves. This
is perfectly correct, and, therefore, we call upon the
Admiralty to act upon the experience already
gained by the trials of the four ships afloat, before
launching into expenses which may be proved
useless before many of the ships upon which it is to
be lavished have been completed. It is obvious, from
the conduct of the Prince Consort in the late gale
in the Irish Channel, that it will be impossible to
encase ships with plates of greater thickness than
four and a half or five inches, without so altering
their construction as to deprive them of the speed
essential to a man-of-war.

Now the question arises, are these plates capable
of resisting the impact of heavy ordnance, such as
it is at present being constructed, at close quarters.
The maximum thickness of iron plating which can
be carried by a ship capable of performing all the
functions that are required of her has been reached ;
while the size, penetrating cowers of artillery of
improved construction and heavier calibre is by no
means ascertained, and while ARMSTRONG, WHIT-
WORTH, BLAKELEY, and others are still competing
for pre-eminence, it would be unwise to predict
where they will stop. Again, with the draught of
water of these leviathians it will be impossible for
them to approach an enemy's coast except at cer-
tain places, or even to enter many of our own ports
but in certain seasons of the tide. It is impossible
to construct a ship in such a wanner that she shall
be able to carry heavy armour plating, a sufficient
quantity of coals for a reasonable voyage, and yet
possess great speed, unless she be of very great ton-
nage, which must more or less necessitate a great
draught of water. The Warrior and Black Prince
have met these requirements pretty fairly, and the
Royal Oak has behaved well, but the question now
arises, Is their armour shot proof, and if it be, is it
not rather overdone ? When gunpowder was first
invented, and firelocks came into use, the armour of
the knights and men-at-arms was strengthened to
as great an extent as the men could carry, and when
it was found that even then it afforded no protec-
tion it was dispensed with altogether, and yet col
diers still survived an engagement, and at length
began to look with contempt upon the caution of
their ancestors. Are we in the present day going to
return to the customs of the Middle Ages, not
as regards our soldiers but our ships, and endeavour
to set death at defiance until improved ordnance
shows the futility of the endeavour, and we have to
give it up. Why, we would ask, are our ships
more likely to go to the bottom now than in days
of yore. Many a good ship has been riddled with
shot in the early pact of the century, and yet carried
her flag triumphantly into other engagements. ii
it be deemed necessary to protect a ship against the
effect of a shot between wind and water, let her be
heavily plated for a short distance above and below
the water line, which would rather tend to steady
her than otherwise, bnt far the rest let her take her
chance, as did the fleets of NE SON and Howe, and
such craft will be more popular in the service than
heavYlaboutiug iron sap which Mr. REED or
anyy Other may
mu:l
rate of speed. y
design. Vessels of this construction
could be built of
size and up to any reasonable
.e
and that if REED informed his listeners at
Greenwich that
th
ah©
in,a l
been was 100 feet too long,
n 0
,000 would
that much
shorter. V. saving of 4:100
effected, and the ship send would have been
rod more handy This
is possibly true, and as the length of the -vessel is
400 feet, and her Cost Some £400,000) the supposed

Saving is obvious. We do not wish to detract from

Mr.REED's well-earned reputation, and we sincerely
trust that the new vessels which be is constructing
may realise his expectation, but we should like to
have some more practical experience of some of
these new theories before plunging headlong into
a vast expenditure- Let, then, our wooden ships
be partially plated if it be deemed neces-
sary, lot their decks be plated just thick
enough to resist a shell or a long shot,
but until the result of future ordnance experiments
is obtained, let us abstain from loading them with,
perhaps, useless encumbrances. It is proposed to
replace the wooden gunbosAs at present lying at
Haslar by iron ones. Let the new vessels be con-
structed of different classes; let them, without ex-
ception, be furnished with twin screws; let them
vary from 100 tons to 600 or 900 tons, and all pos-
sess great speed. The smaller classes along the
coast, in case of a threatened invasion, or for land-
ing troops on an enemy's coast in time of war.
These small fry would be comparatively safe from
large vessels drawing from 25 to upwards of 30 feet
of water, being, from their diminutive size, pretty
secure from a distant fire, and yet capable of in-
flicting infinite damage on boats and other small
craft. In time of war they might be distributed
along the coast, and seek security or supplies at
however small or in-
ca onnys iodf e roaubrl mercantilee. A
mosquito ports,
fleet like this would
afford infinitely more protection to our coast line
and seaports, supported, of course, by the large
cruisers, than is to be expected from the wondrous
structures now building under the joint patronage
of Captain COLE and Mr.
The Americans,
while waging a life and death struggle, are com-
pelled to construct upon theory and experiment in
reality. They are doing their best, and have
already given us one warning in the shape of a
Monitor, not exactly the warning meant, however.
Let us lose no time in c quipping a practical fleet
ready for any emergency, but let us, at the same
time, be cautious how we venture upon new ideas
without seeing our way a little.

LATEST INTELLIGENCE.

(REUTER'S TELEGRAMS.)

THE BOMBAY MAIL.

SOUTHAMPTON, Nov. 25.

The Peninsular and Oriental Company's steamer
Ceylon, with the above mails, has arrived. She
brings 70 passengers, specie value £72 65., and a
general cargo, including 1,612 bales raw silk, value
£150,000 sterling.

The Ceylon experienced fine weather throughout
the passage. Oa the 21st inst., when off Cape St.
Vincent, she passed the French ficet, consisting of
five iron clads, two line-of-battle ships, and one
gunboat.

GIBRALTAR, Nov. 20.

Letters from Melilla of the 9th announce the
arrival at the Spanish settlement, on the 6th, of
Senor Merry, the Spanish Minister in Morocco,
on board the screw sloop of war Concordia.
Senor Merry was accompanied by the Spanish
Consul in Tangier, and the Concordia also conveyed
to Melilla some boxes of specie (amounting, it is
said, to 85,000 dole.) belonging to the Moorish Go-
vernment, and designed for distribution amongst
the tribes which are required to cede the lands in-
cluded within the new Spanish boundary. On the
day after his arrival, Senor Merry proceeded to the
camp of Muley Abbas and had an interview with
the Prince. After his return to Melilla the 96
Moors who had been arrested in the town and de-
tained as hostages for the good conduct of their
friends outside, were set at liberty and handed over
to a Bashau of the neighbouring district. Muley
Abbas, whose duty is in some measure that of a
mediator between the Riff tribes and the Spanish
garrison, appears desirous not to compromise his
popularity with the Moors by being on too intimate
terms with the Christians. It is probably to
this motive that must be attributed what the
Spaniards of Melilla considered as a slight put upon
them. A large party, consisting of ladies, officers
of the garrison, and inhabitants of Melilla, went out
on the 6th to visit the Moorish camp. Instead of
the courteous reception they expected the visitors
observed that, on their approach, all the Moorish
tents were immediately closed. After such an un-
mistakeable hint, that the Prince and his warriors.
were "not at home," the party returned to the
fortress, regretting that they had their walk of half
a league for nothing.
The following British vessels have arrived here :
—On the 15th, the steamer Iberia, 8 days from
London; schooner Idea, 21 days from Newport;
barque Halcyon, 28 days from Sunderland. On the
16th, steamer Una, 7 days from London ; steamer
Messina, 9 days from Glasgow. On the 17th,
steamer Ellora, 41 days from Southampton ; and on
the 18th, Royal Yacht shooner Ginebra, 8 days
from Southampton ; steamer Gladiator, 81 days
from Liverpool ; and steamer Minerva, 5i days from
London.

Exchange and freights unaltered.
AUSTRIA.

VIENNA, Nov. 25.

In to-day's sitting of the Lower House of the
Reichsrath, Count Rechberg stated that he would
reply to the question on Holstein to-morrow. He
was only awaiting the arrival of a diplomatic docu-
ment from Paris, and would then be enabled to lay
the correspondence upon the subject before the
House.

PRUSSIA.

BERLIN, Nov. 25.

The Committee of the National Verein resolved
yesterday to issue an address to the German

people.

The address reminds the Princes of their serious
responsibility, implores the German nation to act
for itself, calls upon the friends of the country to
furnish men, money, and arme, and to hold all re-
sources in readiness. It promises application of
the funds collected for the German fleet in a manner
corresponding with the emergency, and demands
self•taxation by the people.
The address finally exhorts the nation to firm
organisation, and states that the National Verein has
formed an auxiliary committee for the purpose.