The Sun.
London, England, 1839-07-27 00:00:00

CRIME IN IRELAND.

Lord BROUGHAM wished to present a note which
he hold in his hand to the House, of the different pages in
the evidence taken before the Committee on Crime in Ire-
land, to which be meant to refer. It was but a very small
portion of the evidence and he moved that the paper be
printed.

The Earl of WICKLOW hoped that nothing which
fell from him would be considered offensive to the
Noble and Learned Lord, but he did think
that the course the Noble and Learned Lord was
about to take in bringing forward this evidence
piecemeal would neither be politic as regarded the matter
itself, nor just as regarded all parties concerned. He
thought that it would not be just as regarded the public, as
regarded the Committee, as regarded the House, aad above
alftliat it would be perfectly unjust towards the Government.
The Noble and Learned Lord bad said that he thought
twelve days would be sufficient to consider evidence so
voluminous as this. That might be considered sufficient
for the Noble and Learned Lord, with his tact, ability,
and experience, but it would be by no means sufficient for
most of the Noble Lords in that House; even if were sufficient
at any other period of the Session, it could not be deemed so
just now wherNaeir Lordships' table was daily crowded
with Bills from the House of Commons. He therefore
sincerely hoped the Noble and Learned Lord would not per-
severe in bringing forward this matter, as he had stated it
was his intention. The Noble and Learned Lord had stated
he meant to confine himself to the parts of the evidence
which he thought most material, but it was not to be ex-
pected that other Noble Lords would be so confined: As
far as he himself understood the evidence, he believed
there were other portions of it more material as concerned
the peace and tranquillity of Ireland than the parts the
Noble and Learned Lord meant to advert to. There was
another reason why this should not be hastened on in the
manner proposed. The House of Commons had requested
to be furnished with a copy of this Report—it was impos-
sible to say what view of it that House might take. It was
possible that they might think it contained matters so se-
rious against the Government as that they might feel dis-
posed to institute legal proceedings, or to found an im-
peachment upon it. There were four volumes of this evi-
dence, and at this hour he had only been furnished with
two of them. Under all these circumstances, he hoped
the Noble and Learned Lord would afford more time for
a consideration of the evidence.

Earl FIT Z WILLIA M was sorry to differ from his
Noble and Learned Friend, but he really felt that the course
he was about to take was most seriously objectionable.
He did not care about his Noble and Learned
Friend making a motion on the subject whenever he pleased,
but he did object to his laying on the table, as he now pro-
posed, a sort of index to what he considered to be the im-
portant parts of the evidence. He wished to know what
there was to prevent every Member of the Committee, or
every Member of their Lordships' House, doing the same
thing ? The Noble and Learned Lord occasionally pub-
lished a book, which, he must say, was not only of great
importance to his fellow countrymen, but some of them
were of great importance to the world at large, and it
might be very important to soma of the Noble and Learned
Lord's friends that he should turuish them with an index of
the particular pages to which be might wish in an especial
-manner to direct their attention ; but his Noble and
Learned Friend did not, on the present occasion, in refer-
ence to this Report, stand in the relation of an author to
his own book.

Lord BROUGHAM would put an end to the dis-
cussion altogether, by withdrawing the paper and putting
it in his pocket.—( Hear, and a laugh.) He hoped there
`as nothing informal in handing the paper to the Noble
Marquis. Where there was such an immense mass of
evidence, he thought it would be advantageous to have
some reference like that. He was sorry he could not
show the same denree of compliance with the request of
th, Noble Lord opposite, but he thought it very
advisable that soma ,disteusaion should take place
is Are present Session. As there was a charge, or
atelier a charge in anticipation, which might turn out to
be no change at all, it was but fair that the Governrnent
and the 'Noble Marquis should know what they were to
come prepared to meet. The evidence had been delivered
in the course of the week in such quantities as could be
read through, and up to Wednesday last 1,250 pages had
been delivered, so that there could be no pretext for saying
that ample time had not been given. If the discussion
was put off till next Session, he doubted much whether
any Noble Lord would open the evidemae sooner than a
fortnight before the day fixed for the discussion. He was
sorry he could not acquiesce in the proposition of the
Noble Lord. The notice now steed for Monday the sth,
but he was disposed to pus it off till the following day,
Tuesday the 6th, as many of the Noble Lords oho went
out of town on Saturday, would perhaps find it inconve-
nient to attend earlier.—( Hear.)
The Earl of WICKLOW objected to the discussion
coming on at all, when there was not sufficient time to
go through the whole of it. If the subject was once
broached in the House, every part of it would be referred
to, and they would nut be prepared for thet. He thought
such a proceidieg would be a great injustice to the Com-
mittee, to the House, to the country, and to the Govern-
ment.
Lord BROUGHAM said if he found that the House
was in the position the Noble Lord described, after the
discussion had been commenced, he would then give a
not ce to renew iteearly in the next Session.
The Marquis at LONDONDERRY thought it was
most important that some discussion should take place
during the present Session ; and he thought the Noble
Marquis (Normanby) himself would be very desirous to
have the question brought forward at the earliest moment.
The course to be taken by the Noble and Learned Lord
was an expedient one ; and he trusted the House would
come to some resolution either condemnatory of the Noble
M.uquis or of his policy.
The Marquis of NO R.M.A NB Y was not at all surprised
at the Noble Marquis being perfectly ready to denounce
him without having read one word cf the evidence, or hear-
ing a single word he had to say for himself. He thanked
the Noble 4nd Learned Lord for the paper he had handed
to him, but he begged to state that whenever the discussion
came on, he would not feel it his duty to confine himself to
the one point. He would take for his text the speech of
the Noble Earl who moved for the appointment of the
Committee ; and he would feel it his duty to make some
observations upon the style of examination pursued by the
Cosucnittee respecting
private communications.
Lord ELLENBOROUGH l; the Noble Marquis
would not travel out of the recCeepled upon
Ot n li.
by
l. occasion al-
luded to. Th question to brought the Noble
and Learned Lora was so important as to demand the en-
tire attention of the House for one night. s
the conduct of the Noble Marquis must come discus-
sionunmdeer
parts
of
; but many of the complaints were rather to be
against his legal advis,rs. made
Earl FITZ WIL LIAM begged to know whether that
eofiversation was regular or not—was there any question
before the House ?—( Hear, hear.)
The Duke of WELLINGTON said no doubt the
Noble and Learned Lord had a perfect right to bring for-
ward any question he pleased—the notice to their Lord-
, ships was a mere act of courtesy, but it was for the consi.
, aeration of the Noble jnd Learned Lord whether his course
was a proper one or Del.
tord,BROUGFIAM had a very great respect for all
that fell frlim the Noble Duke, and would certainly re-
consider the matter, and if he should find that he would
pursue the course then proposed, on Thursday at the far-
thest he would put the House in possession of the merits
of hisfiesohition.
After a few words from the Earl of RA DNOR, ••
Lord BROUGHAM said--Really, My Lords, I feel
ail itined that's° intgnificant an individual as myself should
be the object of so much interest.—( Laughter.) If there
,w_gre an illustrious stranger in the House he might suppose
that I was a person of some great weight and influence,
instead of my having generally no more to say to you than—

my Noble Friend I; t ne head of the Government.—
(Roars of laughter.,
Lord LYNDHURST—Is the Copyhold Bill to be a
Government measure, or not?
Lord B R. 0 LTG H AM—Oh, I really don't know.

Lord LYNDHURST—The No* Viscount at the head
of the Government promised to give me an answer this
evening to that question, which I put yesterday, and lit
wanted time to consider—probably 24 hours are sufficient?

Lord BROUGHAM—Oh no.—(A laugh. )
Viscount MELBOURNE rose, and in an easy laughing
manner, said to Lord Brottgham, " You had better ex-
plain." On which
Lord BROUGHAM said, the question was who should
father the Bill ?—( Laughter.) Now, the legal maxim
was, that the father should be considered he who appeared
to be the father.—(Laughter.) But the fact was that
this Bill was the child of many fathers, having issued from
the Real Property Commissioners.
THE NEW HOUSES OF PARLIAMENT.
. _ _

The Marquis of SALISBURY presented a petition
from the Agent for the Shannon Stone, and requested in-
formation from the President of the Board of Woods and
Forests on the subject.
Lord DUNCANNON said that the Government had
received a report from Mr. Barry, the Architect of the
New Houses of Parliament, and, from two stonemasons.
stating the impossibility of working the stone with any
facility.
The Marquis of SALISBURY said the petitioner al-
leged the stone to be as easy of working as any other.
Lord DUNCANNON said he would lay the papers
before the House.