The Sun.
London, England, 1863-05-06 00:00:00

IMPERIAL P.

HOUSE OF LORDS—Last Evening.
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack at
the usual hour.

The Earl of POWIS presented a petition from the
clergy of Poole against the sale of intoxicating liquors on
Sunday.

PRIVATE BUSINESS.
The Rumsey and Brecon and Merthyr Tydvil Junction
Railway—Banff, Macduff, and Turriff Extension Railway
—Brecon and Merthyr Tydvil Railway—Peterborough
Cattle—Caledonian Railway (Grantors Branches)—New-
town—Mackynlleth Railway (Capital)—and Merthyr,
Tredegar, and Abergayenny Bills were read a third time
and passed.

VICE-ADMIRALTY COURTS BILL.
This bill was reported with amendments.
THE MAIL PACKET SERVICE.
Lord CHELMSFORD a-deed the Postma►ter-General
whether her Majesty's Government had accepted a tenter
from the Belgian Government for the conveyance of the
English mals between Dover and Ostend, and whetherthey
contemplated any alteral lin in the mail packet service be-
tween Dover and Calais; also, whether any failure in Vie
performance of the existing contract between her Majesty's
Government and Mr. Joseph George Churchward for the
mail service between Calais and Dover respectively had
occurred to renier any change necessary. The noble
and learned lord gave an outline of the arrange-
ments between her Majesty's Government and Mr.
Churchward, and said one of the contracts entered into
expired in the month of June next; but in 1859 an exten-
sion of the contract had been-given up to the year 1870, with
an increased subsidy of £lB,OOO per annum. Into the
validity of that contract he would not enter; but having
heard that certain alterations were to take place in the mail
service, he wished for information on the subject,
Lord STANLEY of ALDERLEY said he would not
touch upon the preliminary observations of the noble lord,
as the matter would no doubt come before one of the
courts of law. With respect to the packet service between
Dover and Ostend, the English Government had entered
into a conditional arrangement with the Belgian Govern-
ment for conveying the mails at a considerably reduced
rate. If Parliament voted the money for the continuance
of the contract with Mr, Churchward, then that contract
-would be carried on, but in the event of that not being the
case, then the arrangement with the Belgian Government
would come into operation. With respect to the loss that
would fall upon the Belgian Government by the
low rate at which they had agreed to perform the
work, the Government had nothing to do with that. All
they had to see to was that the service was efficiently per.
formed. With respect to the mail service between Dover
and Calais, a proposal had been made to convey the mails
at a considerably reduced rate, and negotiations for that
purpose were in progress. The arrangement is to stand in
precisely the same position as in the former, viz., Par-
liament not finding the money to carry on the contract
with Mr. Churchward. The Government had no fault to
find with the manner in which the work had hitherto been
performed, and it was not on that account that notice had
been given to Mr. Churchward of the termination of the
engagement. The discontinuance of it arose solely in con-
sequence of the vote of the other house of Parliament.
CHARN WOOD FOREST REFORMATORY.
Lord BERNERS enquired whether her Majesty's Go-
vernment had already, or would institute inquiries into the
circumstances of the late mutinous outbreak in the Roman
Catholic Reformatory in Charnwood Forest; and also into
the constitution of the appointment and pay of officers of
that institution, and the discipline exercised therein.
Earl GRANVILLE said he could not give a reply at
present,
Their lordships then adjourned.
ROUSE OF COMMONS--Last Evening
The SPEA.KER took the chair at the usual hour.

NEW MEMBER—NEW RADNOR.
Mr. R. G. PRICE took the oaths and his seat, in the
room of the late Sir G. C. Lewis.

The Skipton Gas Bill was read a third time.
The following bills wei a ordered to be read a third time :
—Dublin Corporation Water; Dablin, Wicklow, and
Wexford Railway ; and North Staff irdshire Railway
(additional powers). _ _

MAYNOOTH.
Mr. WHALLEY postponed his motion for the 19th of
May to the 2d of June.
SEA FISHERIES.
Mr. FENWICK gave notice that on this day month he
should move that an enquiry be instituted into the present
state of the sea fisheries and the laws and regulations
affecting them, with the view of increasing the supply of
wholesome and nutritious food. (Hear, hear.)
ARMY PRIZE MONEY.
Col. NORTH gave notice that on the 2d of June he
abould mOve that an humble address be presented to her
Majesty to appoint a commission to inquire into tha distri-
bution of prize money in the army.
:THE ATTACK ON SHON-HING.
Col. SYKES asked the Secretary to the Admiralty if any
and what measures were to be adopted consequent upon
Captain R. Dew, of her Majesty's ship Encounter, employ-
ing part of the naval force under his command in an unsuc-
cessful attack upon the city of Shon-hing, in which Lieu-
tenant Tinling, of the Encounter, was killed, Shon-hing
being many miles beyond the 30 mile radius from a treaty
port ?
Lord C. PAGET replied that as yet no official account
of the disaster had reached the Admiralty. Instructions,
however, had been sent out ordering that no Government
ships should go beyond the 30 mile radius referred to.
GREENWICH HOSPITAL.
Mr. CONDI GRAM asked the Secretary of the Admiralty
whether it was the intention of the Government to take im-
mediate steps to remedy the abuses alleged to exist
in the administration of the funds of Greenwich Hos-
pital, and at once give practical effect to the Regis-
tered Seamen's Act, which gave the seamen's six-
pences monthly to the hospital, and also declared that
the widows and orphans of seamen, slain, killed, ordrowned
in the sea service, and not of ability to maintain or provide
comfortably for themselves, should be received into the said
hospital, or in some reasonable manner be provided for and
educated ?
Lord C. PAGET replied that as an hon. member (Mr.
Liddell) had given notice of a similar moti n for Friday, he
would rather prefer deferring his reply until that evening.
POOR LAW (SCOTLAND).

Mr. DALGLISH asked the Lord Advocate whether he
intended to bring in. any bill to explain the existing poor
law of Scotland in regard to the occasional re:ief of able-
bodied poor ?
The LORD ADVOCATE intimated that as some doubt
had arisen in the law courts of Scotland in regard to the
administration of the poor law, a short act to interpret the
old act would most probably be introduced during the
present session,

DRAWBACK ON REFINED SUGAR.
Mr. MOFFATT asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer
whether the interim inquiry as to the drawback on exporta-
tion of refined sugar was complete, and when it was pro-
bable the report would be laid upon the table.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
should lose no time in making the house partakers of any
information that might reach him on the subject. He un-
derstood the report had been completed,—it had not yet
reached his hands, but he anticipated it would in a few
days.
PERU—CRUELTIES COMMITTED ON CAPTAIN
WHITE NUTVILLE.
Col. DUNNE asked the Under Secretary of State for
Foreign Affairs what steps had been taken to obtain redress
for the cruelties inflicted by the Peruvian Government on
Captain White Nutville, a British subject.
_

Mr. LAYARD replied that the case of Captain White
Nutville was one of the worst he ever remembered. It
appeared he was arrested on an unfounded charge. He was
put into prison, and treated with the greatest barbarity;
indeed the punishment inflicted upon him was a disgrace to
that country. After being in prison he was liberated on
the representation of the British Consul. No. reason was
given for the conduct to which Captain -Nutvi.n e was sub-
jected.' The matter was referred to the law officer
of the Crown, and they reported that he was en-
titled to compensation, and £1,500 was suggested,
and that stun was received from the Peruvian Government
and paid to hire. (hear, hear.) It appeared, however,
that Captain Nutville was dissatibfied with this sum, and
actually demanded £292,174. (Much laughter.) He
would mention a few of the items. " Three blows on the
head with a musket £3,200." (Laughter.) " A knock-
down blow by a; ;soldier, £1,000." " Several
bayonet prole and kicks on my aching sides, £2,000."
(Laughter.) " Five days bad food, £5,C00. (Laugh-
ter.) " Loss of health £20,000." (Roars
of laughter.)
The Government had not deemed it right to make any ad-
ditional demand upon the Peruvian Government (Rear.)
Both sides had agreed to refer the matter to arbitration, and
no doubt a satisfactory decision would be arrived at,
IRISH POOR LAW.

In reply to an HON. MEMBER,
Sir R. PEEL said that he expected the report of the
commissioners would be presented this evening.

THE PETERHOFF.

Lord R. CECIL called attention to a fresh statement in
the newspapers to the effect that Admiral Wilkes had de-
clined to permit the mail bags of the Peterhoff from being
sent on. Had the Foreign-office received any intelligence
upon the matter?
Mr. LAYARD replied that his former answer was
strictly correct. Mr. Seward had informed Lord Lyons
that the mail bags should at Once be forwarded to their
destination without being opened. A gentleman had come
to this country to settle the matter with respect to mail
bags, as no case of the kind had formerly occurred. No
further information than that he had already communicated
to the house had been received at the Home-office.

EDUCATION.
Mr. WALTER then rose to move the following resolu-
tions :-1. That it is the opinion of this house that the sums
annually voted by Parliament for educational purposes ought
to be made applicable to all the poorer schools throughout
toe country (not being private schools, or milled on
'XiiPl°ll4t), in which the attendance and examination of the
"1° exhibit the results required, under the revised

code, by her Majesty's Inspectors of Schools. 2. That to
require the employment of certificated teacherte or of pupil
teachers by school managers, as an indispensable condition
of their participation in the capitation grant, is inexpedient
awl unjust to the managers of such schools. In doing so
ho detailed the circumstances in which the revised code had
its origin, and argued th,t no tone believed that it could re-
setein es it now etood. The educational entimate for the
present year amounted in round numbers to £BOO,OOO, and
the number of children who were directly or indirectly be.
nefited by the grant amounted to about 1,000,000. From
that it appeared that the education of each child cost the
country 165., and he contended that for the purpose the sum
was preposterous and enormous. The capitation grant was
divided into two parts ; there was a grant for attendance
and a grant for examination. He was one of those who
did not attach much much importance to a certificate, but
for the sake of peace he was willing to make a c mcession in
favour of " vested interests." When the Government
wished to have finger in the pie they got a report to prove
that the system of education ex'sting at the time was rot-
ten from beginning to end. Sir James K. Shuttleworth
was the principal inventor of this great discovery, and
after searching the C ntinent, especially Switzerland,
the system of training-colleges was established. This
Government machinery was established between the
years 1839 en 1 1816, and augmentation grants were
made. After all, it was discovered that the cumbrous
system had not proved satisfactory, and then his right
honourable friend framed the revised code, the object
of which was to make payments for results. It was impor-
tant to take a glance at what was going on in the educational
world. They had mechanics' institutes which were all
bankrupt; he was heartily sick of them. They had also
the Society of Arts, which required looking after. There
was also a College of Preceptors—not teachers, or school-
masters, but preceptors. (A laugh.) He was at a loss to
understand why such varied attainments should be requires
on the part of persons for teaching little children up to 12
years of age reading, writing, and ciphering, and learn-
ing how to behave themselves. The system of certi-
ficated masters and that of pupil teachers he con-
sidered objectionable. He knew teachers who would
rather give up their schools than be compelled to
take pupil teachers. In a school of which he had himself
the charge, he was desirous of procuring a married teacher.
One well-qualified teacher had applied to him, but as the
man was unmarried the negotiation soon came to an end.
Afterwards a teacher left a much better school to come to
him, and why? solely because the man wished to get rid of
the nuisance of pupil teachers. (Hear.) The certificate was
regarded at the Education Department as the mightiest in-
strument of regeneration; it was supposed to make new
creatures of the teachers after 12 months' training. Another
thing which his right hon, friend wished to do was to create
a body of teachers complete and applicable to the wants of
all the rural schools. These were persons from 18 to 25
years of age, but everybody who knew anything about
bringing up young people would be aware that this class of
teachers was not the one best adapted for the purpose. The
Government had no ground for saying that they required
an additional test for determining the progress of children
at school, for there was no difficulty in ascertaining the fact
by the simple method of individual examination,which was
now the rule of those schools. The hon. gentleman read
extracts from the ungarbled reports of certain inspectors in
support of his views, and disapproving of the pupil system.
Those reports showed that the elementary branches of edu-
cation were not well attended to, nor the mechanical part
well done; and further, that highly trained masters and
mistresses were unsuited for country village schools. He
next read several passages from letters he had received
from various country clergymen who were managers of
schools, condemnatory of the system of certificated masters
and mistresses. It often happened that the children whe
attended the schools of certificated masters were ineffi-
cient, in comparison with inferior schools, in what it was
most essential that children should be taught. The cer-
tificate was no guarantee for the excellence of the master;
for where they were gold for their work they were gene-
rally above it, and were ambitious to become parsons.
To show the abuse of the system, the hon. gentleman
read extracts from letters showing that certificated masters
were used with advantage in those schools where the cler-
gyman took private scholars ; and referred to the extrava-
gance of giving money where it was not wanted, in order to
bring the schools under inspection. He was opposed to the
subsidising of private schools conducted for profit, and ex-
pressed his opinion that they would ultimately be extin-
guished by the national schools. Ragged schools, he con-
sidered, ought to be assisted from the public purse if they
complied with the required test, He concluded by moving
the resolution.
Mr. BUXTON hoped the house would observe that
there was nothing in the motion of his hon. friend which
indicated that the system of giving certificates upon exami-
nation to teachers should be done away, or even in the
least degree weakened. Neither his hon. friend nor himself
had any wish at all to place the schools under non-certifi-
cated teachers upon the same level as those whose teachers
were certificated. On the contrary, he thought it would be
rash to make so radical a change in that. What they
thought was that, under certain conditions, all schools; for
the working class should be open to inspection—that for
each child who was actually found proficient in reading,
writing, and arithmetic, the managers should receive that
portion of the grant which was to be based on such pro-
ciency, but that the attendance grant should still be con-
fined to schools under certificated teachers. Then came the
question whether they would not be ruining that mighty
educational organisation which had been erected with so
much labour and expense during the last years. The pro-
posed modification would leave it untouched. There
would still be certificated teachers--and as to expense, the
only increase which the change would entail would be
at the outside £200,000 a year. They should, however,
bear in mind this striking palpable fact, that,
although the so-called national system had now been at
work for a great number of years, schools containing
600,000 children of the working class were debarred from
connection with it. An effort should be made to bring
those schools in connection with the system, and he believed
that the change proposed would have that effect. It would
not endanger their educational system ; it would not involve
the country in extravagant expense; and in the long run
would spread, the benefits of a sound education over a far
wider space. and would invigorate the schools in which it
already existed. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. LOWE said he was unable to reconcile the resolu-
tions proposed with the speeches that had been made by the
mover and seconder of them. One did not conform to the
other as they ought, and it was impossible for him to under-
stand what it was that was really wanted. The construction
to be placed upon the first of these resolutions was, that not
only schools where the attendance, followed by examina-
tion, was sufficient to entitle them to a grant of public
money, although they did not employ a certificated master,
but schools which did not comply with a single rule laid
down by the revised code would be entitled to a grant. If
they were to debate the question for hours, it was impos-
sible they could pass such a proposition. As for the second
resolution,its adoption would actually amount to the holding
out of a premium to schools not to be decent, not to be well
managed. He was perfectly satisfied that, if they were to
make the concession demanded that evening, they would
have to give up the certificated masters altogether, The
examination was a thing to be borne down by pressure. It
required all the support that could be given to it. Above I
all, it required good teaching. He should despair of being
able to maintain the standard of examination if they broke
down the standard of teaching. The objection to this pro-
posal was that the Government should have to make a grant
to any school where it had not tested the capacity of the
teacher. In 1853 the present system was introduced, and
under it no one was admitted to be a master of a school who
had not received a certificate of qualification, and that certi-
ficate was only gven upon examination. He thought there
was no reason to regret the present system. People might
differ as to the advantage of grants in aid; but there
could be no doubt as to the benefit conferred upon schools
by giving them really efficient teachers. Of £6,700,000
which had been spent upon education since the year 1853,
no less than £5,000,000 had been spent upon this very ob-
ject of raising the character of the teachers. According to
the second resolution, they would be at liberty, indeed, to
train these teachers ; but then the public need not have the
advantage of them. His hon. friend told them that if a
school dispensed with a certificated master they might im-
pose a penalty upon it. Still they might dispense with the
penalty as well. Had they been wrong in what they had
done ? They had 8,123 schools, and 9,115 masters ; and he
ventured to say that there was not a single school in which
cleanliness, decency, order, and discipline were not enforced
—not one of them whereof the master was not perfectly
able to afford the instruction required. As a class, the cer-
tificated teachers were a highly meritorious and useful body,
although there might be much to regret in the conduct of
many of them, and although it was perfectly true that the
training colleges were pitched far too high originally. But
his hon. friend had not given himself the trouble to inquire
into the alterations which had been since introduced. No

tdoubthei r positionmany oof these
monsceelivteesd,subdudtenlleyt
residences
sYidmiernfd.P
placed at the head of large establishments, with
wTPolefiwndertehec
aennoduglah to maze la-ge
msalaerieths,em mad
and such imvanpoitry. (Hear,tantfuncC hear.)ons I
, was
t
was ridiculous to found arguments upon an exceptional
state of things. What was the object of the revised code ?
When he came into office he found that the quality
of the
teaching was excellent, and that the £5,000,000 spent had
borne good fruit. But then came the report of the Royal
Commission, and while it agreed in general as to the
quality of the teaching, it pointed out that it was deficient
in quantity. Well, they set themselves to remedy that
evil, and the result was the revised code. They saw that
it was necessary to abolish the appropriation fund, and
that it should no longer be distributed amongst the
masters as a matter of course ; they therefore took the grant
away from the masters, leaving the certificate on the num-
ber of children who passed their examination. On the other
hand, they retained the whole machinery of certificated
teachers, pupil teachers, inspectors, religious teaching ; let-
ting go no security which they had already, they added a
security with r,spect to the quantity of the teaching. Well,
was it the logical inference from that that they should
abandon all care as to the qualifications of the teachers ?
They had established two classes of teachers—the first class,
entrusted with the charge of pupil teachers alone, must have

passed a very good examination ; the second class comprised

what may be considered es the legal bearings of
the Polish question, and the second to the expedi-
ency of reestablishing peace in Poland on a durable
basis. In regard to its legal obligations, the Rus-
sian Minister boasts his Government can thoroughly
vindicate its conduct. It would indeed be strange
if the provisions of the most elastic of all treaties
could not be demonstrated by a shrewd diplomatist
to have been scrupulously fulfilled, and accordingly
Prince Gortschakoff experiences no difficulty in
showing that, in its conduct towards Poland, Rus-
sia adopted the course prescribed by the Treaty
of Vienna. He corrects the mistake into which he
alleges Earl Russell fell when he stated in his
despatch that it was provided by that treaty that
the Duchy of Varsovia should be converted into a
Polish kingdom and joined to the Russian Empire
under certain conditions. On the contrary, as the
Russian Ministe e points out, it was merely provided
that the subjects of Russian, Austrian, and Prussian
Poland respectively should obtain " a representation
and national institutions regulated after the mode
of political existence which each of the Govern-
ments to which they appertained should judge it
convenient to accord to them." If, therefore, Rus-
sian Poles were submitted to a purely military
despotism, and Prussian Poles were permitted to
enjoy a constitutional form of government, both
Russia and Prussia might with equal truth maintain
that they had observed the letter and the spirit of
the engagement into which they had entered. Each
of the dominant Powers was to be the sole judge of
the nature of the government to be granted to its
Polish subjects ; and with the government so
granted, whether despotic or liberal, Poland, accord-
ing to the terms of the Treaty of Vienna, should
remain content. This is not the first time we have
beard this interpretation of that celebrated treaty ;
but however specious it is, we cannot help wonder-
ing why the contracting Powers should have taken
so much trouble to impose obligations which, re-
garded from this point of view, are perfectly nuga-
tory. In accordance with the provision of the
Treaty of Vienna, Prince Gortschakoff goes on to
say the Emperor Alexander I. gave a constitution
to Poland at the close of the year 1815, but this act
was purely spontaneous on his part, and, so far
from constituting an irrevocable engagement to-
wards the foreign Powers, was, in fact, never com-
municated to them. The withdrawal of this con-
stitution at a subsequent period has always been
made a just cause of reproach against the Russian
Government; it is, however, justified by Prince
Gortschakoff with a speciousness entirely his
own. The revolt of 1830 had the effect of annul-
ling the constitution granted in conformity with
the Treaty of Vienna, and when in that year
the Russian Government succeeded in re-esta-
blishing its supremacy in Poland, it was by the
virtue, as it were, of reconquest entirely absolved
from ail precedent obligations. "If a revolt does
not invalidate international engagements, it at least
annuls the spontaneous developments which a
generous idea had given to them, and which have
had so fatal an issue for Poland and for Russia."
To prolong a discussion upon this point would, in
Prince Gortschakoff's opinion, be an idle waste of
time. We candidly confess that we are of a similar
way of thinking. It is, however, that portion of
Prince Gortschakoff's despatch which refers to the
future which will be read with the greatest interest.
It is the object of the Czar, we are assured, as it is
the desire of her Majesty's Government, that a prac-
tical solution of the Polish question should be ar-
rived at. The only difference of opinion which exists
between the two Cabinets is due to the obstinacy
with which the English Government continue to
maintain that a restoration of the constitution of
1815 would give peace to Poland. The English
Government are reminded that nations must pro-
ceed gradually across the broad confines which
separate despotism from constitutionalism, and that
each State ought, in its progress across this danger-
ous ground, to pursue its own instincts rather than
obey the dictates of any other nation, however well
disposed or solicitous for its welfare. In a word, the
Poles must receive those political rights for which
they are now shedding their blood by small instal-
ments. There seems at the Russian Court to be a
conviction that foreign States misapprehend the real
nature of Polish institutions. They are, in truth,
most liberal, although distance and " the chimerical
passions of a hostile party" have prevented stran-
gers from appreciating them at their proper worth.
The system inaugurated by the present Emperor
contains " a germ which time and experience must
develope." It will one day end in becoming " a
species of self-government, established on the basis
of provincial and municipal institutions which
have in England secured the greatness and
prosperity of that country." In other words,
Poland already possesses institutions which, in
process of time, must secure her political regenera-
tion. This sounds very much as if the Government
of Russia intended doing nothing further. If this
be so, we fear that the notes of the three Powers
have been written in vain, and that Polish indepen-
dence must be achieved, if ever, at the point of the
sword.
DAILY NEWS.—Occurrences like those which
occupied the Cambridge Borough Magistrates cn
Monday, and were reported yesterday in our
columns, abate largely the confidence and compla-
cency with which we are disposed to estimate the
progress of society in enlightenment and virtue. I
is humiliating to learn that in the most liberal o

our national Universities young men are to be found
who can take pleasure in attending the services of
a humble and peaceful congregation for no other
purpose than that of mocking their solemnities and
interrupting their worship. It sometimes happens
that a miscellaneous crowd is drawn to a place of
worship by the fame of novelties in the service, or
eccentricities in the preacher, and slight disorder
under such circumstances is accounted for, if not
excused. But the young men who have been in
the habit of annoying the Union-road congregation
for some weeks past by smoking pipes in the chapel,
and derisive laughter, appear to have had no other
wish to gratify than that of showing their contempt
for a form of religion different from their own. The
mildness and forbearance with which they were at
first treated seems only to have increased their in-
solence, and last Sunday it was necessary to give
one of the offenders into the charge of the police on
a .charge of disorderly conduct. The police were
resisted and assaulted, the names of seven under-
graduates being given who were present and taking
part in the disgraceful scene. Two of the young
men, undergraduates of Pembroke College, are now
undergoing a sentence of a week's imprisonment for
their share in the disturbance. The Magistrates
had
.a most painful duty to perform in inflicting this
punishment, but they would have been utterly un-
worthy of their trust had they shrunk from it. It
would have been creditable to the University had
these excesses of some of its youthful members been
checked by its disciplinary action, but probably
there were reasons for the omission with which the

public are unacquainted. It seems that we must
wait a little longer before outrages like these are
restrained or prevented by the prevalence of a strong
and sound public opinion among the undergra-
duates.

The Distress in the Cotton Manufacturing
Districts.