The Sun.
London, England, 1837-04-22 00:00:00

BILL.

He would say no more about the policy of this country
towards Spain, but he would now go to the main object
of his motion—the Quadruple Treaty.—(Hear.) By
the third article of that treaty, a naval co-operation was

provided with Spain, which was strictly carried on for some
time. But when the Legion were sent out, the Govern-
ment allowed a certain number of marines and artillery
to co-operate with them.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") He
would not at the present moment say anything of the
propriety of that co-operation. The only fault he found
with it was, that it had been carried to too great an extent.
There were many minor points on which he objected. He
thought it a strange anomaly that these troops had been
placed under the command of a Captain of the Navy, who
could know nothing of the operations upon land ; and be
also objected to the command of the force being placed
under a foreign General who had no responsibility. He
would now draw the attention of the House to what had
taken place within the last three months in Spain.—
(Cries of " Hear, hear.") After General Espartero, with
the assistance of the English sailors had relieved Bilboa, the
next attempt was to put down the civil war in the Basque
Provinces. General Evans received an additional force of
6,000 men, and Gen. Saarsfield was sent from Pampeluna on
thelOth of last month. Gen. Evans commenced the campaign.
He marched out of St. Sebastian with 10,000 or 12,000
men. He was then joined by a battalion of Marines, to-
gether with 20 guns, and Lord John Hay was sent to as-
sist. He joined him on the heights above Hernani, and
in the Venta. After some success against the Carlist
troops General Evans took the heights of Hernani. On
his right were placed certain regiments of Spanish troops,
and the Royal marines were on his left, near the bridge of
Aetigarraga, but unfortunately while the General held
Hernani he neglected that bridge, the only bridge over the
Urumea, and failed to occupy it with a sufficient force.
As he understood, the attack on Hernani commenced
about nine in the morning, and owing to the fatigued core-
dition of the men the attack was carried on but feebly.
About half-past eleven a column of between 4,000 and 5,000
Carlists debouched on the plain, passed the bridge, and
took a village in front of certain troops of the Legion.
Gencral Evans returned to give battle to these Carlists ;
but a panic took place, and a part of the troops fled in the
greatest disorder. He must do the General and his officers
the justice to say that they did all they could to put a stop
to the panic and retrieve the honours of the day, but with-
out effect. General Evans had never contemplated a re-
treat, and consequently had not considered it necessary to
establish a corps of reserve. The troops, as he had said,
fled to St. Sebastian—a place memorable for the valour
and skill displayed by the British army towards the
close of the Peninsular war. He also stated that the
army had been frustrated in their retreat by 400 marines,
under the command of Colonel Owen, and by 40
sailors—those men had protected 4,000 men, under the
command of General Evans, and the difference between them
was, that whilst the marines held themselves responsible to
their King and country, and for the honour of their corps,
the army of General Evans was composed of mercenaries.
He considered that this country was bound to afford

LORD WHA.RNCLIFFE moved the second reading
of his Bill.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE opposed the Bill,
on the ground that the terminus was imaginary ; for the
Great Western Railway was not where this Railway ended.
al that Railway would not be carried beyond Maidenhead
this year, and the Railway in question would have no ter-
minus except where it was expected that the Great Western
.R.ail..vay would be carried ; and he thought they should
pit till the Great Western Railway had advanced further.
He would, therefore, move that the Bill be read this day
• rhorsths•
WHARNCLIFFE said there had been several
instances of Bills having been passed before the Railway,
with wh:cl a junction was to be formed, was carried to the
place where the junction was intended to be made ; the
assents, too, amongst those whose interests were concerned,
were greater than the dissents. He hoped, therefore, the
Bill would be ali..lwed to go into Committee.
Lord BEXLEY sou that the landholders, for eight miles
of the proposed line, wee against it.
The Duke of WELLIGTON said that a large number
• the landholders near Oxfor3 were against the Bill. He
would wish to avoid giving a vote on it.
Lord ASHBURTON thought that the Bill should go
to
a Committee, in which it could be fo:ind whether the
proposed line would he beneficial or not.
After a few words from Lord WYNFORD, which were
inaudible,
Lord BROUGHAM protested against the compa:ison
of the expenses of the Court of Chancery and of an appeal
to
a Committee of either House of Parliament. He hoped
to sec the time when the jurisdiction of these kind of mat-
ters would be withdrawn from both Houses of Parliament.
Lord ELLEN BOROUGH said that many of the in-
habitants of Gloucester were anxious that a communication
should be opened between that place and Oxford by means
of this Railway. He hoped the Bill would be allowed to go
into Committee.
The Bill was then read a second time.
C HURC H-RATES.

Lord WILTON presented a petition in favour of
Church-rates from Manchester and its neighbourhood,
signed by 15,200 persons, to 6,000 of which signatures
the places of residence of the parties were affixed.
Lord BROUGIIAM said that he had no objection
that the Noble Lord should throw this into the scale ; but
the numbers on the other side would preponderate.
Lord DUNCANNON then laid on the table the re-
port of the expense of the Ecclesiastical Commisioners
in Ireland, and the correspondence between Lord
Stanley and the Synod of Ulster, in respect to
the system of education in Ireland. He also postponed
till Monday the Committee on the Millbank Penitentiary
Bill.

WAR IN SPAIN.
Lord ALVANLEY said that the object of the
motion which he roso to make was to call the attention
,of his Noble Friend opposite, of that House, and of
the country in general, to the extraordinary position in which
the marine forces and the artillery now serving in the North
of Spain were at that moment placed. Before he made the
remarks which he should feel it his duty to do upon this
question, he would take the liberty of stating his opinion on
the policy which had placed those brave men in that position.
His opinion was, that that policy was detrimental to the in-
terests, and injurious to the honour of this country.—
( Hear, hear.) He said it was detrimental to the interests
of this country, because he found the wisest and most en-
lightened statesmen of all parties in this kingdom, had
stated that nothing could possibly justify one country
in interfering in any way in the internal regulations
and administration of another country. He thought the
policy detrimental to the honour of the country, because he
deemed his Majesty's troops, without any declaration of
war, had entered into an action with the inhabitants of a
country who was at peace with England, and fighting for
a person whom they believed to be their right-
ful Sovereign, and for their liberties, which they believed to
be dear to them. The policy of this country with regard
to Spain had been founded on the quadruple treaty signed
three years ago. He had always deprecated that treaty.
The object of that treaty was, first, to secure the throne
to Queen Isabella ; next, to remove Don Carlos ; and 3d,
to secure to that country a Government of liberal opinions,
which might be a fixed Government, and also to insure
peace.—(Hear, hear.) Within a very short time after this
treaty was signed, Don Carlos left this country, went
hrough France, and arrived in the Basque provinces, where
he was received with open arms. An army was instantly
raised, every man capable of taking up arms, the most cele- .
brated General of Spain (Zumalacarregui) was placed at
the head of the army, and his successes were such that the
Government of this country, shortly after intending to
make a military demonstration in favour of the Queen, sus-
pended the Foreign Enlistment Act, and fostered the form-
ing of the Legion. At the time, those best informed
with the Spanish character prophesied that they would
st rongthen the Carlist cause—would weaken the Christino
cause by causing jealousy and dissension, and it was probable
that they would be betrayed had not those prognostica-
tions been found to be true. For two years the Legion
had suffered gross ill treatment, and had very nearly been
-betrayed by a Spanish General whose name he would
IRA mention—they had dwindled from 12,000 or 14,000
now into 4,000, and within the last two months had been
driven from Hernani to San Sebastian by the very Carlists
'wheat they were sent to exterminate. Then look at
the position in which the Government of that country
had been placed since the treaty had been entered into.—
( Hear, hear.) There had been no less than six
%changes, which was more than, he believed, any history
in Europe could show in so short a time. He might
r'late an anecdote which bore on the question :—A
fri end of his was sent out in a diplomatic character to

Soki:th Anierica, where it was necessary to give one
month's notice before an Ambassador could be re-
ceiv, .1. He waited there for two years, but no
President remained long enough in office in order to
him a,low to present his credentials according to form.—
(Hear, hear, and loud laughter.) He had heard it
...dated that this treaty was entered into for the pur-
T, use of keeping the Northern powers from interfering
in the Peninsula. The contrary was the fact.—(Hear,
%min) Be ,re that they were quietly waiting to see
1, oil the Portuguese and the Spaniards would settle their
m n quarrels ; but when his Noble Friend in carrying out
the 'I, treaty sent his military propaganda, they were
for, led in their own defence to interfere.—(Hear, hear.)

operation of which that order in council went to suspend—
have been permitted to enlist in ;the service of an ally of
his Majesty ? The gist of my Noble Friend's speech
was this :—Will you, in consequence of the behaviour
of these officers and of the Misconduct of some of those

with whom they are allied permit the marines and artillery
belonging to his Majesty to remain in co-operation with the
army in Spain ? My Lords, I answer most distinctly that
I will.—(Loud cheers.) My Noble Friend says I run a
great responsibility, under existing circumstances, in conti-
nuing these troops in Spain. This responsibility I will take
upon me ; but I will not take upon me the responsibility,
in a moment of temporary defeat, or disaster, of with-
drawing from the Queen of Spain that assistance to which,
by every dictate of good faith, every principle of honour,
his Majesty is pledged and plighted to render her.—
(Loud cheers.) I say, my Lords, I will not do it
because it would be entailing upon me a responsibility and
disgrace, deeper than any with which I have yet
been charged by the Noble Lord himself. (Renewed
cheers.) The Noble Lord says that if what has happened
in Spain had occurred in our own service—that if General
Evans had been our officer commanding on that occasion,
he would have been dismissed. I say, not if I were Mi-
nister.—(Loud cheers.) I say that an officer who serves
his country ought to be stood by not only in victory but in
defeat ; it is the duty of his country to stand by him ; and
this, my Lords, is not a time to mark such an officer with
.

disgrace or dishonour, much less withdraw from a cause
which appears to be blighted, or failing that support which
we are bound in honour and justice to permit to be given

to it. My Lords, I am ready to incur all the respon-
sibility of these troops remaining in Spain ; and all the
responsibility of any further operations which may be
undertaken there. Ido not wish to entertain any san-
guine expectations on the subject ; but at the same time I
must say, that I do anticipate a fortunate and successful
result from these operations—fortunate and successful,
not only as regards Spain, but the world in general,
both at home and abroad. My Lords, we all know that in
every country, both at home and abroad—in every part of
the world—difficulties and embarrassments will sometimes
occur which nobody can specifically account for, or point
out the time when they may or may not occur.—(Hear,
hear, hear.) We all know this ; but, my Lords, I will
not argue in that lowering and degrading langu ige which

has been admitted in discussion elsewhere as to the genera

state and prospects of their country. I hold it in the high-
est degree unwise, impolitic, and, not to use a harsh or un-
parliamentary expression, I do consider it to be a labour of
an humble and creeping character, and if for the purposes
of political advantage, quite unjustifiable, to circulate and
propound such notions.—( Hear, hear, hear.) My Lords,
I can only say in conclusion, that I see nothing in the state
of the affairs of this country, either at home or abroad, to
induce any Minister to withdraw from office, or to deter
any one who was not in office to hesitate to accept it,
if in other respects be deemed it advisable to do so. (The
Noble Viscount sat down amidst loud cheering.)
The Duke of WELLINGTON said it was charged

against those on his side of the House that they should

assistance to Spain.—(Hear, hear, hear.) But there was
a duty due by the Government to this country
also—it was to preserve that character which the Noble
Duke, and those who fought under him, had gained at
the expense of their blood, and hand it down untar-
nished to posterity.—(Hear, hear.) He would con-
elude, by moving fur copies of the correspondence
between the Government of this country and Lord John
Hay, as to the assistance to be rendered by this country
to Spain by the force under his command.
Viscount MELBOURNE said that there would be no
objection to lay the despatches on the table, but
the Noble Lord had said that the course of
policy pursued by this country was detrimental
to its safety and honour ; but he ( Lord Mel-
bourne), would say if this was the Noble Lord's
opinion, he should certainly have come forward sooner
and declared it, instead of coining forward now,
and condemning that course of policy which he had
before openly and manifestly acquiesced in.—(Hear, hear.)
This was not fair; either as regarded an individual or
a party ; it was not fair to those to whom he was
opposed to suffer them to go on for a length of time pursu-
ing. a course to which he was opposed and then to call its
propriety in question. He ( Lord Melbourne) considered
that it wis tampering with the honour of the country to do
so. His Noble Friend had laid down several principles us
to the non-interference in the Government of other countries.
He could not agree to them all. He denied that this was
any interference in the Government of a foreign country.
He must say, however, that it was rather a strange and
curious argument to come from the other side of the
House, that to support an established Regal Government
against the attacks of an upstart Pretender was wrong.—
(Loud cheers.) There were other parties in the
country from whom ho might have expected suck
arguments ; but he must confess lie did not expect to hear
them from the Noble Lord opposite.—(Loud cheers.)
But even admitting that the case was as represented,
he would ask, was it nothing to support a treaty under
which this country might be called into hostilities ? He would
ask,were the tranquillity and the peace of Europe nothing ?
(Cheers.) Was it not a subject of deep interest ? He un-
derstood from the cheer of the Noble Duke that the peace
of Europe was rather in danger, in consequence
of the treaty.—(Tory cheers, and hear, hear, hear.) That
was the question between them. To secure the peace
of Europe was the object which he had in view, when
he concurred in all the measures that had been taken on
this subject. It was a subject of deep interest with him.
It was his first thought to secure the peace of Spain
and through its tranquillity to secure that of the whole
of Europe. If the peace of the country could he
secured by the establishment of a Constitutional
form of Government—surely, if such was his opinion, it
was his duty to do all in his power to assist the establish-
ment, and secure the stability of such a form of Government.
Their great object was to secure the peace of the
country, to put an end to civil war, and to esta-
blish the power of the Queen whom the Government
of this country had recognised, and to whose support
the country had bound itself by the treaty which had been
signed.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") The Noble Lord had
questioned the step which had been taken by the Govern-
ment with respect to the Foreign Enlistment Act :
and he had stated that every person at all acquainted
with Spain—every person of reputation or character, or
who had any knowledge of that country, bad condemned that
policy. If they had, he (Lord Melbourne) must say
they had condemned it most silently, for he had
never heard of it.—( Hear, hear, and cheers.) Now
that was a step upon which the sense of Parliament
might have been taken, but it had not been. In his (Lord
Melbourne's) opinion, it was not fair—he was going to say
it was hardly honourable—(Hear, hear, hear)—to con-
demn that line of policy which those on the other
side of the House had acceded to, and suffered to
pass without condemnation, and without calling on the
House to interfere.—(Cries of " Hear,") If any cen-
sure had been passed upon it, probably it would have
prevented it from being adopted, and certainly from being
persevered in.--(Hear, hear.) It was unnecessary for
him to make any observations on those parts of
the Noble Lord's speech, with reference to the
various revolutions and civil changes which had
taken place in the Peninsula, with great rapidity.
It certainly was very much to be regretted ; but it did not
arise from the course that had been pursued by his Majesty's
Government,but from circumstances over which they had no
controul, and which it had been the desire of Government as
far as it was in their power to prevent.—(Hear.) My Noble
Friend (continued the Noble Lord) then proceeds to what
I apprephend to have been the principal object and point
of his speech, namely, the state in which his Majesty's
mlitary forces are placed in Spain, the dangers to which
they are exposed, and the consequences likely to result
therefrom. lam certainly unable to follow the Noble
Lord through all the details of these occurrences from the
day of the 16th downwards, or to pronounce any opinion
as to the conduct of the officers engaged on that occasion.
My Noble Friend says that he does not know to what
extent we may be drawn in this matter, and how much
farther we may be obliged to go, and what forces we may
be induced to employ. All I can say upon this point is,
that, whatever may be done, it is impossible anything can
be done in the dark, and that, if anything is done of which
Parliament disapproves, it would have ample opportunity
of expressing its disapprobation, a disapprobation which
it had never yet manifested. My Noble Friend then
went into an eulogium of the conduct of his Majesty's
troops for the manner in which they acquitted themselves
on the occasion, and then made some severe animadver-
sions upon the conduct of the soldiers belonging to
the Legion, who, he says, did not behave with the same
firmness. For this my Noble Friend gives as a reason that
the first are soldiers responsible to the Government, the
others mercenaries employed by a foreign Government with
whom they have no dealing, and can have no sympathy.
Why my Noble Friend was pleased to distinguish the lat-
ter by the title of mercenaries I am at a loss to imagine.
Why, my Lords, all soldiers are mercenaries.—(Hear, and
" No, no.") I say yes—mercenaries they are—they arc
paid for their service, they fight for pay, and therefore
they are mercenaries. As for the conduct of these men, I
believe that they have behaved with as much gallantry and
as much enthusiasm in the cause as any soldiers who have
ever fought in our own service. Will the Noble Duke op-
posite be one to join in this denunciation of those whom it
is thought proper to denominate mercenaries? Did he
never command mercenaries—had he never foreign troops
engaged to serve under him for pay? Where is the dif-
ference, I ask, between the soldiers who were engaged
under the Noble Duke in the last war and the men o this
Legion, who, by virtue of an order in council, in pursu-
ance of the ancient and wise policy of this country—of a
policy sanctioned by the authority of the Act itself; the

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY, APRIL 22, 1837.

have brought this subject long since under the eonsideration
of the House. He begged to remind their Lordships that
he had taken more than one opportunity of expressing his
disapprobation of the course of policy pursued, but he had
never brought forward a distinct motion relative thereto,
owing to the desire he felt to avoid interfering by a direct
vote of the House with the Executive Government. He
had also great objections, in the state of this country, and
in the relation in which that House stool to the other
branch of the Legislature and to Ministers, to stirring
any questions of this nature, and he had therefore
done all in his power to prevent discussion upon such
topics, unless when they came ina6ertently before the
House, in the King's speech or otherwise ; but when they
did thus come he always stated his opinion as hostile to
the course pursued.—( Hear.) After the order in council
had been issued he had given notice of a motion upon the
subject, because a satisfactory answer had not been given
by the Government to a question put by a Noble Friend
of his with respect to the claims of soldiers of the Legion
to pensions for wounds, &c., and he wished to have the
matter discussed, in order to have the opinion of the
Noble Viscount. It also appeared to him that only
one part of the Foreign Enlistment Bill was suspended
—that which inflicted penalties on those who entered the
service of a foreign power.—( Hear, hear) He did not
bring forward the motion, however; because some of his
friends did not agree with him in his view of the matter.
The Noble Lord said he had acted according to the
Treaty, and he talked of the course pursued as one calcu-
lated to secure Portugal and preserve the peace of Europe.
For his own part, he did not approve of the Quadruple
Treaty, for he thought it inconsistent with the principles
which had always governed this country with reference to
Portugal—that of not interfering in the disputes of the
Princes of the House of Braganza. He also objected to it,be-
cause it brought this country and France as guarantees to
the subjects of Spain and Portugal for the performance of
the 6th and 7th Articles of the Treaty. He had himself felt
the inconvenience of that Treaty since its adoption, and
the additional Articles were, in fact, different from the
Treaty itself, for they required a more active co-operation
on the part of France and England than had at first been
contemplated. The additional Articles were signed in
August, 1834, and in the November of that year lie was
called upon by the Queen of Spain to carry it into execu-
tion. When he was called upon, it was particularly un-
derstood—and this he recollected well, for he had had an
explanation with the Allied Governments at the time—
that this country was not to aid in settling the Govern-
ment of Spain, nor to aid in the contest then going on. He
spoke this from an accurate knowledge of the facts, and he
challenged the Noble Viscount (Melbourne) to produce the
dispatch of that time, to refute or corroborate his assertion.
—(Hear.) He believed the first object of the Govern-
ment of the Noble Viscount was to establish a blockade ;
but it was discovered that this country, not being at war,
could not blockade. To get over this difficulty, the Queen
of Spain, although in possession of all the ports of the
whole coast of Spain, declared a blockade of the coast. He
believed the Noble Lord on the Woolsack, had be then
been a member of the Cabinet, would have told them that
the Queen of Spain had no right to blockade her own
coasts. The inconvenience of the blockade, however, was
discovered, and an order was issued that Spanish vessels,
bearing certificates from Spanish consuls, might be ad-
mitted. He (the Duke of Wellington) remonstrated against
this, and there was at once an end to the blockade, and
our squadron remained on the north coast of Spain, not in-
terfering in tir contest going on. The present Govern-
ment said that they only carried the treaty honourably into
execution. He firmly believed that that was what they
meant to do ; but they had no means of carrying the second
and third articles into execution, for Don Carlos had not
even a village in his possession, much less a port, upon the
sea coast. The Government, by means of the convention
brought about by General Eliot, put a stop to the practice
of putting their prisoners of war to death, and that officer
had the satisfaction of knowing that on the very day
that convention was signed, he thereby saved the lives of
twenty-five men. He thought the King's Ministers
ought not to depart from the position in which they found
themselves placed at the conclusion of that convention.—
( Hear, hear.) Neither the military force, nor the financial
force, nor the people of Spain, nor all the advantages for
which the Noble Lord contended, nor any advantage what-
ever, had resulted from the course which the Noble' Lord
had thought proper to adopt. It unfortunately happened
that certain parties had transactions in Spanish finances,
and it was important to those parties that there should be
the appearance of red coats, and that the name of Great
Britain should be engaged in these operations. Money was
raised in this country to defray the expense of the equip-
ment of the Legion, as it was called, of 10,000 men, and to
defray the expense of their food and clothing for a certain
number of months ; and the Noble Lords, in order that
this scheme might be carried into execution, gave their con-
sents to the Order in Council for the suspension of the Fo-
reign Enlistment Act. This corps quitted this country in
the spring of the year 1835, and their first operation was a
march on that very spot which was the scene of the late
disaster. On that occasion the Eliot convention, as it was
properly called, was first violated, and from that day to
this, notwithstanding the millions of money that Spain
had spent—notwithstanding the number of lives which
had been lost—the military affairs of the Queen of Spain
were in a worse situation than they were in when this
corps was sent out. After a certain period, he believed,
as soon as the original money was expended, the corps
was sent down to join the other troops in the neigh-
bourhood of Vittoria. They remained there during
the winters of 1835 and 1836, struggling with every
possible :distress ; but a crisis was approaching—it be-
came necessary that Great Britain should take a more
active part in the war—that something should be done
to produce some effect in a certain place called the Stock
Exchange. Accordingly this corps, towards the spring of
the year, was brought to Santander and St. Sebastian, and
employed in the relief of the blockade which had been
maintained for some time by Giubelalde. It was then found
absolutely necessary to raise this blockade, and the British
squadron, under the command of a most active and able offi-
cer, for whom be (the Duke of Wellington) entertained
the highest respect, employed their 68-pounders, and forced
in the works of the Carlist line on the 6th of May.
What was the effect ? The blockade was still main-
tained a little further off, out of the reach of the fire
of the British fleet, and there it had remained up to the
present time. Excepting this, he defied the Noble Lord
to show any single advantage which had been gained of
any description from that day to this. The whole dis-
tance that the blockade had been removed was one mile.
General Evans might have left the Carlists to their ori-
ginal position without any inconvenience whatever being
felt by the town, because he (the Duke of Wellington)
happened to know that the communication by sea could