The Sun.
London, England, 1837-12-09 00:00:00

ing subject—the more interesting, because it assumes now a
practical and I would fain hope a successful form—l will not at
this • moment intrude further upon your time. I will not
abuse the indulgence I have received. on fearer occaflnns as
well as the present, further than to express my deep regret
that the gentlemen who form the Conservative party, .avow-
edly, as it is said, the unpopular side—who have to o ; the
hustings been speaking of the Poor-law Bill—( Great .c
ow-
ing from the Ministerial benches)--many of whom have
been returned to this House by exaggerating the deice a of
that measure, and often denouncing its merits—( Renewed
cheering)—who have occasionally spoken of pensions and
pensioners—(Cheers)—l deeply regret, nay, I will not be-
lieve, that gentlemen who pride themselves upon their
high stations and the purity of their principles, will
so soon forget those influences through which they ex-
cited the popular resentment, those assurances by which
thov awakened tile pcpu'ar expectation, as now to rally round
their leader for a mere party purpose--( Great cheering)—
with the view of prevene.ng an inquiry, which it would re-
flect great discredit upon our new Sovereign to reject—
( Cheers)—which confers great honour upon the Government
that countenances it—( Cheers)—which will cheer the hearts
of many who are now afflicted by a sense of oppression arising
out of the inequality of the laws as between the rich and the
poor—(Cheers)--and will be taught by your vote to know
that there is some thing less than base hypocrisy in your strong
eapressiona of attachment and devotion to the cause to which
you appeal, when you invite us to recollect that in the :mall
and comparatively insignificant inquiry into which we are about
to enter, we shall involve that great principle of eternal justice
which is attached to the gate of heaven itself.—(Great cheer-
ing.) And though you may row be proud Of your artificial
condition, of your high rank and large possessions, recollect
that the humblest of those to whose prejudice these too inju-
rious distinctions have been made, aye eh:seined in the great
hereafter to possess the same boon—to enjoy the same bless-
irgs with the richest and the proudest of you all—remember
that the lowest, the humblest, the most despised, have hopes
in that place, where they are assured that poverty will find an
acceptance. —( Loud and long-continued cheering.)
Lord STANLEY—If one fortnight ago I had been asked
who would be the person who, at the close of these tumul-
tuous cheers, would now, as upon many previous occasions,
have greeted the conclusion of the speech of the Honour-
able Member for Southwark—if, I say, I had been asked
who, at the close of those cheers, would be the first to rise
with alacrity, and on the foundation of the policy of the Go-
vernment, their past professions and principles, their con-
stant and continued course of adherence to what they felt
to be the principles of truth and justice—if I had been
asked who, upon those grounds, would be the first rise to
repudiate and regret the motion of the Honourable Mem-
ber for Southwark, a fortnight ago, •I should with con-
fidence have said that man will be the Chancellor
of the Exchequer.—(Great cheering from the Oppo-
sition.) Because I felt persuaded that no light cause, no fear
of' unpopularity, no fear of Parliamentary desertion or defection,
no fear of offending this party or of pleasing that, would
have turned aside her Majesty's Ministers from that course
which one and all of them have declared to have been
founded upon no temporary expediency, hut upon immuta-
ble justice.—( Opposition Cheers.) As last night I had
the satisfaction of seeing her Majesty's Government, and a
small portion of their supporters, in concurrence with the
large body on this side of the House—( Hear, hear)—and, I
speak it to their creclit—( Oh, oh ! from the Ministerial
benches, and cheera from the Opposition)—in the maintenance
of that which they felt to be the continuance of justice, go
out against even a considerable body of their own supporters,
so I had hoped that I should on this occasion also have fol-
lowed my Right Hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer, after heating him, in a manner which would have ren-
dered it unnecessary for me to say anything, with his accus-
tomed and wonted eloquence, on a subject on which that elo-
quence frequently been exerted, refute, as I have heard him
before refute, the arguments and refuse acceding to the propo-
sition of the Hon. and Learned Member for Southwark. But
I know not how it is, the tables are strangely turned within
these few years. —( Hear, hear, and a laugh.) I now see the
Chancellor of the Exchequer moving the very resolution which
he two years ago condemned.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.)
I have seen the leader of the House of Commons approving
and supporting the doctrine which be has constantly repu-
diated, and I see them now both adopting and taking even
the part of voting on the very question which they have
always rejected when moved by the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman the Member for Southwark —( Opposition cheers. )
I congratulate that Hon. and Learned Gentleman upon the
victory he has gained.—(Cheers from the Opposition, and
laughter.) I cannot, however, congratulate her Majesty's
Government upon the submission which they have exhibited.
—( Hear, hear.) But whatever may be the course taken by
her Majesty's Ministers, I for one cannot forget that I was a
Member of the cabinet of Lord Grey—(Opposition cheers,
and laughter from the Ministerial benches)-1 for one will not
forget that I shared the credit to which I think that Govern-
:vent was entitled fur introducing a reform of the abuses which
had been for a length of time in the system of administering
end granting pensions ; neither will I forget—nay, I look with
equal, with greater pride, to the fact that I was one of those
who shared in the part taken by Lord Althorp, which was
taken by Lord John Russell—l speak of the Minister of that
day—(Hear, hear)—and which was tal:en by the present
Chancellor of the Exchequer (the then S cretary of the Trea-
sury), and in which we, one and all, declared that great as
was the benefit which the country would derive from the
adoption of a sound principle for the future—great as was
the popularity which might be derived from it to the Go-
vernment by yielding to popular clamour, and making an
instantaneous and retrospective reform, yet we would pur-
chase neither popularity to ourselves, nor benefi• to the public,
at the expense of the national faith, and at the sacr:fice of
private interests. But since that time the Government has
been emancipated from some of the scruples which it then
entertained. We have been told by the lion. and Learned
Member for Dublin, over and over again, of the vast diffe-
rence the:-e is between the Whigs of 1835 and the Whigs of
1536 ; we are told that the dross has ben purged from the
Cabinet since then —( Cheers from the ;Ministerial benches.)
If the Right lion. Gentleman wl o so loudly cheers thinks
that is is evidence of anything of the nature of dross, unworthy
aed base of a teal to adhere to the Nth of Parliament, to
remain unflinchingly the advocate of a co -scientious act—
(Cries of " Oh, oh 1" from the Mideerial beaches, and loud
cheers from the Opposition) —to maintain a so iet determina-
tion net to be tempted by any con.aid ration to infringe these
rights which private indit iduala claim, and which they are
defenceless to eeforce except by your ssnse of juad-7e—if
this be considered unworthy, I am willing to Le purged
off as such dress, hut I share that misfortune with the
names of Graham— (" Oh, oh !" from the Ministerial benches,
and cheers from the Opposition)—of Spencer—( Cheers)
aed of Grey—(" No, no !" and cries of " Hear, heir !")
I have no right to speak of Lord Grey's present opinions;
but if I know any thing of Lord Grey, I know this, that
sooner than he would have yielded to a demand which he once
declared and believed to be most unjust, he would cut off his
oe n right hand. —( Hear.) I know nothing of Lord Spencer's
present views—( Hear, hear)—but if I alas trust Lora Spen-
cers's declarations—his Parliamentary conduct, his unchanging
language up to the last hour of his presence as a Member of
Parliament, I knew from those declarations and that conduct
this, that so long as he remained a Mini ter of the Crcwn, he
never would consent to that which he eve r characterised as an
act of flagrant injustice.—( Hear, hear ) If Gentlemen are
inclined to dispute that as I state it, and as I think to much to
the honour of Lord Spencer, permit me, in addition to those
passages which have been quoted by my ilight lion. Friend to
night, to read one passage from a speech made by Lard Al-
thorp in 1832 upon this question, and before the Pension List
was dually settled. It was made open the question of the in-
troduction cf that. Act which provided for prusions charged
upon the Consolidated Fund. " I still remain of the opinion "
says Lord Althorp " that if are take advantage of the fact that
these pensions were settled during pleature, we sl all, as the re-
presentatives of a great country, be taking an advantage most un-
worthy of us ; because I believe that nothing can be more detri-
' mental to the honour of England than to act contrary to our
promise, and proceed in consequence of having a mere tech-
nical excuse for such a proceeding. This appears to me so
clearly a debt of honour, that, whatever I may think of some
of the appointments, I feel bound, as a gentleman—( Hear).—
not to consent to the taking away any of these pensions so
long as"—what does the House thick ? During the life of the
present Savel eign ? No ; but "so long as I shall be a Minis-
ter of the Crown."--( Cheers ) Was Lord Althorp speaking
in his individual capacity ? No, he was speaking as the leader
of Lord Grey's Government in the House of Commons ; and
in that declaration he pledged, not himself as Lord Althorp,
but he pledged himself as the colleague of Lord Grey, as the
leader of Lord Grey's Cabinet, in the name and on behalf
of the Cabinet who had passed the Act whereby the pensions
were reduced prospectively.—( Opposition cheers.) Now, Sir,
there is no person who has mere strenuously maintained this
doctiine than the Right Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of
the Exchequer. Ile did so in 1834. The Right Hon. Gen-
tleman is well aware of the speech.—(Cries of " Question,"
" Order.") I will not quote my Right Honourable Friend's
own speech, but I will make the quotation which he
himself made from Mr. Burke, because, as be has said, it
would seem to imply an absurd vanity on his part of wanting
to compare any argument be could offer even with the finest
part of the works of that great Statesman. As an ietroduc-
tion. and an illustration of his own precise siaws on this ques-
tion, my Right lion. Friend quoted the following passage
" Those places, and others of the same kind, that are held for
life, have been considered as property. They have been given
as a provision for children—they have been the subject of
family settlements—they have been the security of creditors.
What the law respects shall be sacred to me. If the harriers
of law should be broken down upon ideas of convenience—
even of public convenience—we she'', have no longer anything
certain among us. If the discretion of power is once let
loose upon property, we can be at no I,:ss to determine whose
power and what discretion it is that will prevail at last. It
would be wise to attend upon the order of things, and not to
attempt to outrun the slow but smooth and evert course of
nature."—(Cries of " Oh, oh.") Some Gentlemen may
think that Mr. Burke was neither a good speaker nor a
sound reasoner, but the majority of mankind arc of a dif-
ferent way of thinking—( Cheers)—and certainly this is a
passage in which the beauty and harmony of the language
is only equalled by the dignity and justness of the sentiment.—
(Cheers.) Mr. Burke proceeds—" There are occasions, I
admit, of public necessity, so vast, so clear, so evident, that
they supersede all law. Law, being only made for the benefit
of the community, cannot, in any of its parts, resist a demand
which may comprehend total of the public interest."
There was a cheer from- the Honourable and Learned Member
for Southwark at that part of my Right Honourable Friend's
goes on —" Let the Honourable and Learned
ciGuent at
Gentleman wh°
proven that the total of the public interest' is at
issue on this motion, and then, and not till then, will his
cheer be justified." Mr. Burke continues—" No law can