The Sun.
London, England, 1830-06-11 00:00:00

tin the Bill the whole. of the &hile in the letter of the,
eight Heim the • Chancellor •of the Ekehequer. Sucha
;measure WfJuld be 'calculated ,to put an end to the heart-
littrnings and jealoosiee which. at :present existed. IslOt
being able to acquiesce in the motion of his Hon. and
learned- Friend, but being still morn unwilling tosubwit-
to art nnlimited postponement of any measure of refornli
he *Huh! take the liberty, however reluctantly, and
::lthough he kneet to What imputation and attack lie should
subject himself 'ay so doiug, to Adopt another course. Be'
lieving conscientiously that that course was right, be would.
move. as an amendment for leave to bring in a Bill to amend
the 7th of Geo. IV. c. 72, far regulating Vestries in Ireintl
He repeated) however, that hashoyld be most willing to sir'
render the att,Asiire to the lkdble Lord, if he would bu.t
constiments, and tell them that thtli grievances were ante
in a Bill on the lie refight then return to bin
to be redressed. The Hon. Gentleman 6f:included 11
moving the amendment which he had just describe:4: .
Sir, B. INGLIS could not allow the speech ofthe
and Learned Member for Clare.to pass without some Ob-
servation. All the complaints of the Ilone_ond learn°
Grntleman were founded on. the supposed hardship of the
members of one religion being called upon to support the
members of another. But the tax was a tax on laud.
was paid as a tax on land, Without reference to religion.
The Hon. and Learned Gentlemati) however, eharac.-
terised the church rates in Ireland as an Ora equalled:ll
magnitude by no other in that country; if so, the ctrl'
complained of in Ireland were not what they were fee.
tented to be. 14e had examined the returns on the stor
Ject. He had taken four parishes in four different dier,
ceses ;, and h.! found that the church rates Were lit tutair''•
threepence an acre ; in the second, fourpOntiej in the
third, fivepence ; and in the fourth, for the space of eiatr.
years, tot quite ninepence. Now was that such a grievi
anee as celled for the apneal which the Hon. Arid 'Lear"'
Member for Clare had made to the passions, not of thas
of t
Bill
,syee,
rebut
said
df
to
oersaoffnese
affect
ltsheewpheeorpe
i?e
oTf
Irelgarnide v aati:s.ee
and as Dissenters. He denied the assertion, and would.
state, withent fear of contradietion, that the Its!'
affect: d the Irish People wholly and chance
ter as tenants of the land. He confessed that he did not,
think the law required alteration ; it was connected with
the letting of the land, and was a tax on the land, Anti
not on the sectarian holder of it ; and. he, should therefore
neither vote for the original motion nor for the amendinent..
Lord F. L. GOWER believed that many more grounds
of objection were stated to the.present Bill.then'could well
be made out. The church of Ireland:atm:id in a peculiarly
unfortunate situation, and was in many respects unfairly
Oared in cdthparisan with the church of England. There
were constant complaints made against the Irish church
for.what teas celled an unfair consolidation of parishes;
but those who made the accusation not-see that the
situation of the Irish church required'consolidation. There
were some portions of the motion which he confessed It
could not understand, and that was especially the cis
with regard to that portion ofthe motion which rclateo
the reparation of the chancel. As far as be knew soy
thing of the law, the Statute of the 2d Geo. 1., c. 14,
had left the matter as it stood at-common law, and tb°
other Statutes which had. since been passed, numerous as
they were, had not altered it. It seemed to him: that time
law could not be alter'ed; if it was meant that there should
be still a church establishment in Ireland.
Mr. HUME obierved that. the • Ministers themselvcs
had frequently admitted that this Vestry Pill contained
clauses which were productive of irritations" among the
Irish people, and as they had often declared not only. their
readiness but their anxiety to put an end _ to all causes of
popular irrigation in Ireland,' he :thought they must be
glad, of the opportunity of -repealing' this Bill. Sonic
Hon. Members seemed to 'think that the sums paid by
the Irish farmers and peasantry were bat trifles ; hut the/
should recollect that what was an insignificant trifle might
be most itnpottant to the class of men on whom, three
burdenei were placed. After what' the Ministers them,
selves had declared respecting the irritation caused by this
Bill, he thought they ought to have intriailuatd a ;ilea/sore
for its repeal, and he trusted that even', this Session,
though now much advanced; would not be allotted entirely
to pass away without their bringing in Some measure W
remedy an ;evil which was universally COMplained of is
Ireland.
Sir 11... PEEL said that even if he were to introduce
any measure for the purpose `recommended by the gen'
Member for Aberdeen, he could not promiii Himself
it would meet with that Hon. Member's approbation. The
questien 'no:iv:before the House might be thus stated. Way
it right or ?proper that there should be some provision
made. for -the- performance .of divine service in Ireland?
He'sbould answer the questiomiu the affirmative. Then,
hate was that :provision to be-onside ? It. must either het
levied in the fdrm of a park-Mal alsesstrtent of in tirst-'of
a burden fixed upon the public funds of the etattoaar, Now
how could the public of this country—how would the
Hon. Member himself, like to be taxed for the support Of
the Irish Church ? What then was to be done?
11r. HUME—Allow_ the inhabitants in. Vestry, Cr
tholies as 'well as Protestants, te tas:-themitelves.
Sit, R. PEEL-...That was, Tin fact,:admitting that-the
money. should be raised by a paroChial assessment ; hut did
not every one see the impossihilitrit literally adopting the
Hon. Member's ,suggesticin.!.lt:;tstesatdmitted that there
were•one thousand Catholics in many parishes where there
were but twelve Protestants, and surelyit would be nothing
Letter than a mockery to allow the Catholics toaletermine
what should he the provision made for the performanee
of Protestant worship. ,In his opinion,- it ought to be
distinctly specified by the law what, should •be the
means afforded for the reparation of the 'Churches
of the Irish Church E.;tablishifient, and that matter
ought not to be left to the -letter- of-his-Right-Hon.
Friend. The Hon. Mentber for Aberdeen had recom-
mended;: nay, bad caPed on UM and his 'colleagues, to
bring in a Bill to repeal the existing law. ,Nottet he nittst
say, in the presence of that Hon. Member,; that they iota
not get, at this moment, a fair consideration of any.mev
stile they proposed, for Hun. Members did-not afford them
time for the purpose; they rose: night, after night to die
cuss every question that was introduced. It was true tbld
every Hon. Member might say, "J. am a Member of
.tbe
Legislature, and • every point on which I. make a. log
speech—(A laugh).a-is a' matter of importance, and. I
have a duty, to perform;" bat if twenty other.Membero
took the same view of their duty as the Hon. Member
opposite, nut only the' House would not be able to pass
one Bill, but they would not get any one Bill through
the first reading. Admitting that such discussiOrte were
flat unnecessary, that there was _not_an unnecessary argil'
ment in the Hon. Member's speech, yet he must repeats
that if twenty other Hon. Member, pursued the same
course, they should never get through their ..business.
He must say that when the 'Hon. Menther occupied in
various discussions four sr five hours every night, it woe
a little hard in him to become the accuser of Ministers for
not introducing other measures. He appealed to the
House, whether it was not With' the greatest difficulty that
Ministers now 'got a fair hearing for any Bill they intro-
diteed, and when they did obtain. something like a hearing
for it, whether they were ever able to do to' before one or
' two o'clock in the morning? Under these circumstances,
he must confess that he felt the greatest reluctance to odd
any thing to the business of the Session; and for his own
part, he was quite unable to undertake any new business
with the least hope of doing it justice. At' present he
' was often employed 17 or 16 hours out of the 24, and
when it was considered that he was friquently ten hours
in attendance on that House,' it must be ichnittid that he
could Lave but little leisure fur properly considering any
measure with a view to bring it under their notice. He
had thought that it would not be for the public advantage
for him to press an immatured 'measure 1416 i -their dis-
cussion, and he had consequently avokletf, and shoUld still
avoid, taking on himself the responsibility of introducing
the Bill.
PROTHEROE could' not ionenr with the Right
Hon. Baronet in his attack upon the Hon'. Member for
Menke*. For himself, since he' had had .a lest in that
House, he , had day by Jay been more conilia-a-nir the
high merits of that Hon. Member, Who, in Houses with s
full attendance, and in Houses with a thin:attendance,
alike persevered in the object he had in view, and had
done so much towards procuring some diminution of 'the
burdens of time people, and towards obtaining that which
was absolutely necessary for the purposes of economy and
reform—namely, a more correct +node of stating the esti'
mates. With regard to the question itself, be should
vote for the measure proposed by Mr.' O'Connell. He
must say that he viewed with disgust a system, by which
the people who differed from them in religion were obliged
to provide the sacred- elements fur the performative of asso'
timer worship.
Sir P.. PEEL had not intended to make any attack on
the Hon. Member for Aberdeen, but referred to that Hon'
MeMber's practice with a view of showing, that if °theta
followed the same'cOurse, there would be no .opportunity
'to get through business. .is
Mr. O'CONNELL, in reply, trusted that-hit matino
would be carried. He could not vote fur the amearlenetat
proposed by the • Hon. -Member for Limeridk, heitansee
though that Hon. Metaber had not -meant 'it to-be .a testa'
sion, he was sure it would be so eintsidered-in Irelan& In
his opinion the real Protestant ought to wrish: for the al'
teration he now proposed, tor that ulceration alone.woulti
have thepoiver of petting an stud to that•hestility of feel-
ing which now existed among different classes of people
iu Ireland, Hie object was to put the Yrotestimtvittuch