The Sun.
London, England, 1839-05-21 00:00:00

T"E ‘l.l\l LtiN DON TrESDA

of " Bravo !" and cheers)—therefore he could not
be considered friendly to the Poor-law Act ; but he
would also add, that the Bill having been carried with
the concurrence of almost all the leading men of both
sides the House in the House of Commons, and with
the almost unanimous concurrence of the House of
Lords, he thought it the duty of Guardians to carry
out the Bill in such a manner as to render it effective
both to the rate-payer and to the poor man. There
was no hope of repealing it.
Mr. DAY—It will die a natural death this year.
Mr. Alderman HUMPHERY—Yes, and another Bill
would be introduced to continue it. No doubt altera-
tions ought to introduced into it, and he should like to
see power given to the Guardians to order relief out
of the house. He would go as far as any Liberal
Member to make it effective and easy to the poor man,
and an opportunity would soon be afforded of testing
his sincerity.

" Do you think the Bastardy

A voice in the crowd—
clause requires alteration ?"
Mr. Alderman HUMPHERY said he thought it did.
He would use his utmost endeavours, as long as he was
in the House, to carry out those principles which he
thought his constituents wished to see carried out. He
thought that those Liberal Members had done wrong
who had voted against the desire of their constituencies
on the Jamaica Bill. He knew three of those Mem-
bers who did not intend to go to their constituencies
again ; and he said that those Members were wrong to
vote factiously on this Bill, with the intention of turn-
ing the Government out. He felt that if Sir Robert
Peel had carried on the Government as he had in-
tended, the country would have been reduced to a
state of thraldom, and therefore he considered that vote
a factious one. Those Ministers whom her Majesty
had called back mustcarry out liberal measures. He heard
of one thing which they intended to do, which was to give
up the postage, and adopt the penny postage plan.
It was also their intention not to oppose the Ballot—
(Loud cheering)—but to allow every Member of the
House of Commons to support or oppose that measure
as they saw fit. These were two good things as far as
they went, but he should like to see the rate-paying
clauses abolished, and the payment of the registration
shilling done away with, and he had no doubt whatever
Ministry we should have, must do these things or they
would not stand. It was very easy to talk of forming
a more Liberal Government, but the difficulty was to
get Members of character and fortune to come forward.
Needy men, who were anxious to take care of them-
selves, could be found in plenty, but the difficulty was
to find Liberal Members of Liberal ideas and of inde-
pendent fortunes to take upon themselves the functions
of Government. The Queen had expressed her deter-
mination to Lord John Russell to support Liberal opi-
nions ; she had said to him " You see that letter, do you
approve of it ?" and on his stating he did, she had said
that she relied on him to support those opinions in the
House of Commons; that showed that Lord Johnßussell
was a man of Liberal politics, although he might not be
pleasing to everybody. He concluded by urging the
meeting to do everything in their power to support the
Liberal principles of the Queen.—(Cheers.)

Mr. D. W. HAaVEY, who was received with loud
cheering, which lasted some considerable time, said—
Mr. High Bailiff and Gentlemen, I feel much indebted
to my friend Mr. Day for having relieved me from con-
siderable responsibility, inasmuch as I understand that
when a meeting was held in this Hall on the subject of
the Poor-law, some short time since, it was imputed to
me as a censurable fault that I was absent. The respect
which I owe this constituency for the honour they have
conferred on me in electing me as their representative,
makes me anxious on all occasions to be present at their
public meetings, and the pressure of private business
never has nor never shall occasion my absence from
them.—(Cheers.) But there has of late been a most
wholesome regulation adopted with regard to Commit-
tees of the House of Commons imposing on every Mem-
ber the necessity of attending the discussions which may
take place in those Committees throughout, or precluding
him from taking any part in any subsequent discussions,
or from voting on the question, and on the day on which
that important meeting took place, I was sitting on the
Blacks all Committee, against whose objects a petition
had been signed by a large portion of this constituency ;
and although the present age has made rapid strides in
the march of improvement, I have not yet heard of any
invention which will enable a person to be in two places
at one and the same time.—(Cheers and laughter.) If
I were at all of a jealous disposition, I might feel some
grounds for complaint at the conduct of the Melbourne
Ministry, whom I have frequently supported, in making
my worthy Colleague the depository of their secrets—
(A laugh)—and I hope, as they have confided so much
in him, that it will show you that he has more power
than I have, and I should advise you to apply to him for
any thing you may require at their hands.—(Loud
laughter.) He has to-day let out two or three things
which is news to us all—nay, which I believe will be
even news to the Newspapers.—(Roars of laughter.)
The Penny-postage plan is to be adopted, the Ballot
is to be made an open question, the Rate-
paying Clauses are to be repealed—(Cries of
" No, no," from Mr. Alderman Humphery)—and the
greatest of all financial wonders is to be brought to pass,
the giving up the sum of one shilling by those who have
the power to take it, and we are all to live in hope that
these great measures will be compassed.—(Cheers and
laughter.) But with respect to the matter more imme-
diately before us, I will not attempt to give my version
of the story of what has passed within the last fortnight.
Government is a great mystery, and the proceedings of
the last fortnight show it. I will not follow the example
of my Hon. Friend. 1 will not give my version of the
story as the true one. I will not attempt to determine
whether Sir Robert Peel conducted the negociations
with his usual skill—whether he was desirous originally
of forming a Tory Administration—and whether he was
retarded in this design by difficulties with which he could
not contend ; all this is to me a matter of the most per-
fect indifference. I rejoice, however, that I did not by
my vote contribute to bring about these results, which
I hope will be for good. I have never been extremely
anxious to perpetuate the Melbourne Government, but
if there were ever any measure of the Melbourne
Government which was entitled to support, and
which I am perfectly satisfied was necessary, it was that
on which this division took place ; because, although
that Government more than any other possessed the
unenviable felicity of making their best measures appear
felicitous, the Jamaica Bill was a measure for the good
of the country, but it should have been a Bill, not for
suspending, but for abolishing the Constitution of that
colony. The Government, in bringing forward that
measure, proceeded upon too narrow a basis ; because
the House of Assembly had refused to recognize the
Prisons Bill—because one act of the Legislature had
been disallowed—they thought it just to suspend the
Constitution. These are the grounds on which Mr.Grote
thought it right to vote against the motion ; because, he
said, and he was right in so saying, if a popular legisla-
tion is under the constant apprehension that if it does not
adopt the suggestions of the ruling powers, it will be
interfered with in its functions, there must be an end
to all constitutional legislation. But the real ground
of the Bill is this. The House of Assembly consists
of 43 representatives, chosen by a constituency con-
sisting of 2,000 out of a population of 400,000 persons,
these representatives having been recently slave-owners,
and many of them dealers in human flesh, and many
of those 2,000 having been engaged in making the
same nefarious purchases. This is not the form of
Government calculated to carry out the Emancipation
Act, and it is the duty of the Government to form a
system adapted to the new state of things. There are
difficulties, insuperable difficulties,in the way of doing this
at once ; therefore the Government proposed that Com-
missioners should be appointed, having absolute power
in Jamaica, but responsible for their conduct to the Go-
vernment at home, until such time as they should have
acquired information sufficient to enable them to propose
a new system of Government adapted to the existing
state of affairs. These are the reasons on which I sup-
ported the Bill. I may regret that any part of those
who support a Liberal policy, should have thought it
their duty to vote against the Government on this
question—but I cannot consent to denominate their
conduct factious, because I must grant to them the
same perfect independence which I claim for myself.—
(Cheers.) I do not think that either the overthrow
of the Melbourne Government, or the manner of its
restoration is fraught with such inestimable blessings,
for I am not one of those who view a Tory government
with apprehension. The time has gone by when the
people of this country are to be terrified by a name.—
(Cheers.) What we want is an efficient and responsible
Government, earring out all the great objects and designs
of government, and though it is to expect too much,
especially from those men who are the embodied iden-
tification of Toryism to become so liberal as to
propose measures to meet our concurrence, yet I
do not hesitate to say that if Sir Robert Peel had
been able to settle his differences with the Bedchamber
Ladies, and had bean placed with the Duke of Welling-
ton over the government, if they had proposed any mea-
sures or series of measures, which I deemed as good as
if they had proceeded from the Treasury Bench when
filled by the Melbourne Administration, though I might
have looked into those measures with more suspicion,
and given them a more vigilant scrutiny, yet I would
have given to that Government the same steady support
if they had been proposing measures of this class as I
would to the other—(Cheers)—because I consider the
time is past when the people of this country are to be
tortured by names. But, as I said before, great advan-
tages must flow from recent events. I am disposed to
attribute to her Majesty and her conduct all that the
most kind interpretation can give. In her character
we trace great firmness, we trace discrimination of
political men, we trace fidelity in private attachments,
forming elements of character rarely to be found with
such a minority of years—(Hear hear)—and when further
I heard it conceded in the House of Commons by Sir
R. Peel, that her Majesty did not disguise her attach-
ment to her recent Ministers, I am bound and justified
to infer that it was not the narrow attachment of early
associations merely, but :that she loved those principles
which they so little illustrated, and which she would be
well pleased if they were more strenuously enforced.—
(Cheers). But we must not expect too much from a

crowned head ; on the:contrary, I should be amongst the
first to deprecate any attempt of the Executive power
to raise itself into an individual political character.
The Executive of this country is a mysteriously contrived
emblem, by which the various portions of the nobility
and aristocracy are silenced or concur in a scheme of
authority, for which, in past centuries, they have con-
tended, and have deluged the country with blood in the
strife. We therefore throw around the crown all that
fortune and favour can confer, and above all we adorn
it with the free homage of our impulses. We are, from
our education, and still stronger from our prejudices,
attached to the mixed form of Government under which
we live ; but I should deeply regret if ever there should
be an attempt by the monarchy to claim to itself the
same balance of power that belongs to the hereditary
council of the land, and still more to the sovereign
power of the people —(Cheers.) I therefore infer, that
while her Majesty has strong predilections both as to
persons and principles, she is so well read in the history
of this Constitution as to know,while she deeply regrets
the events that crowded about her persons with whom
she was unfamiliar, and brought herself in contact with
principles at variance with her impressions, yet when she
found the representatives of the people were pressing on a
Government not in accordance with her own views, she
should at once throw herself into the hands of a Con-
stitutional Government.—(Cheers.) I cannot doubt
that her Majesty is friendly not only to those who com-
pose the present Government, but to those who I wish
did something more than make professions.—(Cheers.)
But see what a delightful impression touches our minds
in reviewing these circumstances. It is not more than
four years when we were frequently admonished in this
place and in the newspapers connected with the party,
to forbear pressing on the Government of the late King
measures to which the hearts of the Ministers were de-
' voted, but which they were not in a condition to advance.
We were told that the King, though he had good in-
tentions was not mentally powerful, that he was the
creature of Tory impressions, that he was unfriendly to
the principles of their Government, and watching an oc-
casion for their overthrow. That occasion was brought
about by court cabal, and overthrew the Government,
upon which the Peel standard was erected, but
fell ander the weight of Parliamentary deri-
sion. Now, my friends, that excuse is withdrawn
from the Melbourne Government.—(Cheers.) Even
at the commencement of the present reign we were
cautioned against pressing for any measures which the
comparatively infant mind of the monarch might not be
prepared to receive. But the Queen has proved her-
self to be only a child in years, but that she has the
stature of A man's mind—that she has a knowledge of
her duty, and is resolved to acquit herself of it. We
then have a right to cherish the belief that we have an
Executive power devoted to the best interests of the
people, and that her Majesty only requires those en-
lightened councillors, and those grave measures of wis-
dom and deliberation which ought to be the emblems of
a good Government, and which the people are not
more anxious to support, than they are ready to op-
pose anything that may infract this definition of their
interests. The people of this country say they are en-
titled to good Government economically administered
through the agency of their own representatives.—
(Cheers.) It was asked by some gentleman what was
the course which their Members intended to pursue. I
have no hesitation or difficulty in stating, that which I
shall pursue. I had quite made up my mind that if the
Peel party came into power, I never would again fall
into the mere ranks of party opposition. Two long ap-
prenticeships did I spend on the opposition benches,
struggling with, and behind the men who would make
us believe that if they were possessed of power they would
spread over the land the beneficent consequences of
their authority. They got into power, and for another
long apprenticeship I have supported them, but I never
will again fall back into a mere party opposition, which
means nothing more nor less than this—there is not
places for us all, one party cannot be perpetually in
authority, and therefore we will have this understand-
ing, that we who have got possession of the Treasury
benches, will retain them as long as we can, and when
the pressure is too great for us to do so, we will hand
them over to you, with the understanding that you shall
show the same forbearance in opposition that we have
shown ; and perhaps Lord John Russell shall get
up and tender his generous support to Sir Robert
Peel's Government, as we have instances, night after
night, of Sir Robert presenting himself to the House
to rescue the Whig Government from the policy of the
Radicals.—(Cheers.) To such an artifice I will be no
party ; but if her Majesty's Ministers, as I have a
right to infer from the State secrets now let out,
do intend to pursue an improved policy, they will
find me not less strenuous and not less active in their
support than my Hon. Friend.—(Cheers.) It would be
singular if a man after 20 years' labour had not some
favorite notion, some hobby-horse. I keep a very large
stud of these horses, but they cost me very little, and
I find few people disposed to borrow them.—(Laughter.)
But I am not so wedded to them as to say I will sup-
port no Government that does not embrace them all.
We must look to society as we find it. We are a
singularly artificial people. There is scarcely anything
natural in our political relations, and when you propose
any measure of improvement, however it may recom-
mend itself to one class of persons, it is sure to find
strenuous resistance in others. Take for instance the
Local Courts Bill, having for its object the establish-
ment of Courts, in which the law can be administered
promptly and cheaply. But what a storm is that
raising in the professional world. Wherever two or
three attorneys are gathered together, there is the dread
of Reform amongst them ; and in small towns their
power is frequently very great. I cannot forget an
anecdote which occurred to myself in this borough,
which shows how difficult it is for the Government to
do things to please every one. Speaking to a gentleman,
of no inconsiderable position in the borough, who was
anxious to know my notion of that monstrous imposition
the Corn-law. He hoped I was the advocate for giving
to every man a loaf of bread at the cheapest possible rate.
I said of course that view was congenial to my senti-
ments, but it is not enough that a poor man should have
a large lump of bread for a small sum of money, but
that his hand should grasp a large pot filled with foam-
ing beer ; and when you consider the elements of which
that beer is made, and that hops form a material ingre-
dient, what do you think of repealing the duty on hops
" Lord save your soul," he says, " it will be the ruin o
every man in the borough."—(Great laughter.) And
so it is with almost every reform you can mention, for
we are so entangled in all sorts of artificial contrivances
that it requires a Government of mighty minds, sustained
by a great majority of the House of Commons, and then
they have nothing to fear, because, backed by the cou-
rage and good sense of the people, the Lords, who now
form the breakwater against all improvement, would
either be intimidated by numbers or led to listen to the
voice of reason. But if they did not, what should I
care? Let Lord Melbourne only come forward
with some intelligible plan of reform, which
shall place his opponents in the wrong, and heneed not
then apprehend any miserable majority of five. Let
each man in his department bring forward some well-
considered measure. Let the Attorney-General and
Solicitor-General set their heads to work, the one to
improve the common law, and the other that sink of
corruption, the Court of Chancery. Let these two
men, who are receiving 7,0001. or 8,0001. a-year, do
something for the country, and open the whole mystery
of our Courts, and their oppressive working.
That is their part. Let the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer bring forth a financial budget, and make the
finances lighter by placing them on real property.—
(Cheers.) Then let Lord John Russell bring forward
a measure to do for England what has been done for
Ireland. In Ireland they have abolished the Church-
cess ; let that be abolished in this country. Let that
sink of iniquity, the Ecclesiastical Courts, be purged
of
their gross and oppressive influences. Let each in his
order take up their different plans, and above all let
them be enforced in the House of Commons intelligibly.
Let the country understand them—let the good
sense of the nation be enlisted on their side—let them
not be dismayed by being in a minority. They
have got an enlightened Sovereign, who knows what
Toryism is, and hates it—who knows what liberty is,
and loves it, and who is determined to sustain its friends.
—(Cheers.) Let this go forth. Don't dissolve: in a
hurry. Let Englishmen have time to think, and they
will soon get rid the prejudices in which the Tories
are seeking to entangle them. Let the constituencies
well understand this policy—let it be the
_subject of
their night dreams and their day deliberations—
let there be one feeling as for the Reform Bill
—we are for these men, we are for these measures,
and being for them all, all we'll have.—(Loud
cheers.) Then I would dissolve the Parliament, and
throw the whole responsibility of these measures on the
people themselves. I would say, not to the men of
Southwark—for what an example of political purity have
you set—have you not returned your Members without
a farthing expense?—(Cheers.) But I would speak of
other places, and let them imitate your example ; and
I maintain, that while I am a friend to reform, the most
extended reform—while I would give the right of
voting to every man, who lives in one place for one
year—yet I do say that there is to be found
among the constituencies of the country. abundance of
power to give to such a Government, with such mea-
sures, that triumphant majority which must carry them
through every species of Tory tribulatinn..—(Cheer.s.)
These are the views that I advocate—this theorpoislie.iyt
that I would pursue. Is it a dangerous
.poliey,
not recommended. by its moderation, by its good sense.?
And if so, are we to support that Government which
opposed to its recomnition or do you sanction hostility.
to a Government 'which 'will not adopt those
.views,
even though it may lead to a catastrophe of which the
effects are speculative ? I consider the prospect before
us is bright, and that we have only to pursue a steady
course of well doing, and that:your representatives ought
to enforce such sentiments as I have endeavoured to
state. I attribute to what some may consider a disaster,
consequences which may be in themselves as wide as
the heaven and as ample as the earth, and that will
bring in their train all those political advantages which
are to be found in the ordinary defraction good Go-
vernment. For that system lam the advocate—inits