The Sun.
London, England, 1839-06-07 00:00:00

PUBLIC BUSINESS.

Lord J. RUSSELL said to-morrow he should pro-
pose to take the Scotch Prisons Bill till about half-past
nine, when the Counsel might be heard against the
Jamaica Bill ; and the subject of Canada would be
postponed till Thursday.
Lord DUNGANNON inquired when the Eccle-
siastical Commission Bill would be proceeded with ?
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said he hoped he should
be able to proceed with it on Monday, the 17th.
Lord MAHON had understood that the Noble
Lord had consented to give his Hon. Friend the Mem-
ber for Reading precedence on Thursday next for the
purpose of proceeding with the Copyright Bill.
Lord J. RUSSELL had given the Copyright Bill
precedence for Thursday, but he thought the House
would agree with him that the affairs of Canada were
of greater importance than the Copyright Bill.—
(Cheers.) He would take that opportunity of stuting
to the House that he hoped to bring in a Bill upon each
resolution. If the first resolution were passed, he should
bring in a Bill upon that, and if the second resolution
were passed he should bring in a separate Bill upon that
also. With regard to the first Bill he should not
press it beyond the second reading, but he hoped the
Bill founded on the second resolution would be passed ;
he should press that, is hopes it might become the law
before the end of the Session.

Lord 11M1AIION hoped the Noble Lord would be
able to make such arrangements as would enable* his
lion. Friend the Member for Reading to proceed with
his Copyright Bill at an early day.
Sir R. PEEL supposed that the Noble Lord, in
pursuing the course that he bad proposed, regarding the
Jamaica Bill, considered that the second reading would
be merely a reading pro forma, in order to enable
counsel to be heard, and that if be (Sir Robert Peel)
consented to the second reading, the discussion would
be taken on the motion for the Speater's leaving the
chair. _ _

Lord JOHN RUSSELL proposed the discussion
should take place on the motion for going into Com-
mittee, and if the discussion extended to such a length
as to render it advisable, he should have no objection
to postpone the Committee.
THE QUEEN AND SIR R. PEEL.
Mr. WAKLEY desiryd to ascertain from the Noble
Loro, and from the Right Hon. Baronet the Member
for Tamworth, if either of them would offer any opposi-
tion to amotion for an address to the Crown, praying that
copies of the correspondence which had passed between
her Majesty and the Right Hon. Baronet the Member
for Tamworth, and which that Right Hon. Baronet
had read to the House. should be laid on the table of
tta House. _ _

Lord JOHN RUSSELL should certainly oppose
such a motion.

Mr. WAKLEY would then give notice that he
should shortly bring this matter before the House, and
that he should move that this House do present an
humble address to her Majesty, that she would be gra-
ciously pleased to order that there should be laid before
this House copies of the correspondence which had
passed between her Majesty and the Right Hon. Ba-
ronet the Member for Tamworth, and which her Ma-
jesty had been graciously pleased to permit that Right
Hon. Baronet to read to the House on the 14th of May
last. We understood the Hon. Gentleman afterwards to
state that he intended to bring forward his motion on
the 11th of June.

IRISH RAILWAYS.
Mr. BARRON wished to ask when it was the in
tention of the Government to bring the subject of Irish
Railways again before the House.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL could not at present fix a
day, although he had been very anxious to do so.
ROMAN CATHOLIC BISHOPS.
Sir R. INGLIS begged to put a question to the
Noble Lord the Secretary for the Home Department.
A certain address had been presented to the High She-
riffof the County of Mayo, the first name to which was
that of the Lord Lieutenant of the County. The next,
as :reported in the Freeman's Journal, was " John
Archbishop of Tuare—(Hear, hear, hear.) He would
take no notice of the third signature, gnd would gibe no
opinion upon it ; but he wished to ask whether the
Noble Lord had intended the Attorney-General for
Ireland to take any proceedings in consequence of
the assumption of that title, in reference to
the clause in the Roman Catholic Act, which prohibited
Roman Catholic Prelates from assuming the titles of
Protestant dignitaries ?
Lord JOHN RUSSELL had not seen the requi-
sition to which the Hon. Baronet bad alluded ; but in
answer to the question put to him, he would state
that the Government had not given any directions to
the Attorney-General, nor had they communicated
with the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland on the subject,
and without there was an absolute necessity for so doing

he should not think it necessary to take any steps in re-
ference to it. On an occasion when an application was mat
to him by a person acting on the behalf of Dr. Al' Hale,
asking that certain petitions should be laid before his
late Majesty, that individual had taken the title of
Archbishop of Tuam, and he (Lord John Russell) im-
mediately wrote to Lim, stating that he could not pre-
sent the petition to his Majesty as he had assumed
that title.—( Hear, hear, from the Conservatives.)
Therefore, whenever it came before him officially he
would entirely deny that Dr. 111‘ Hale had any right to
assume that title ; but he could not agree in the pro-
priety or expediency of instituting prosecutions on such
a subject.—(Cheers.)
Mr. O'CONNELL did not know whether the Noble
Lord was aware that there was no such clause as that
stated by the Hon. Baronet. The clause prohibited
others from giving any Roman Catholic that dignity, but
it did not prevent him taking it himself.—(Laughter.)
Lord J. RUSSELL replied that, in the case to which
he had alluded, the title was not given by another to Dr.
M' hale. Whether or not there was that default in the
Act mentioned by the Hon. and Learned Member he
did not know.
Mr. O'CONNELL observed that there was no
such Protestant dignitary as the "Archbishop of Tuam"
at the present time. There was a Bishop of Tuam,
but no Archbishop.—(lronical cheers from the Con-
servatives.)
Sir It. INGLIS said, in consequence of the state-
ments of the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin,
he had obtained a copy of the Catholic Relief Act, and
after perusing it, be was convinced that he (Sir R.
Inglis) was right, and the Hon. and Learned Member
wrong. The lion. Member then read the section
of the Act, from which it appeared that any Catholic
Clergyman assuming a title that did not belong to him
was liable to be fined to the extent of 1001.

Mr. 0 CONNELL after reading the ACt, felt bound
tc *clink that he was wrong. Any person in or out
of that House might call another the Archbishop
of any place, but the individual was not at liberty to
assume it himself.
ELECTION PETITIONS TRIAL BILL.

On the Order of the Day for the House going into a
Committee on the Election Petitions Trial Bill being
read,
Sir E. SUGDEN wished to call the attention
of the House to the results that would follow the pas-
sing of this measure. He thought the House should main-
tain its authority with respect to all election petitions.
He was willing to place the Members under such re-
strictions in the exercise of the right which they wished
to retain as must satisfy the country ; they were de-
sirous of giving to the country the right of a fair trial
of election petitions. The question was, how far
the House could furnish such a tr:bunal from
within itself. The plan of the Right Hon. Baro-
net (Sir R. Peel) was a great improvement in
the nomination of a General Committee in

this respect, that he believed a great part of the evils
which had resulted under the old Act, were the conse-
quence of the excitement which invariably prevailed in
the House on choosing the names and striking them.
He thought the House might place confidence in the
General Committe, but even there there would be two
parties. It was impossible it could be otherwise, and
they might go on very well together in the appointment
of the first six members, but the appointment
of the seventh member would always be a matter
of contention between them, and eventually
it would be a matter of arrangement that the
seventh man should be appointed by one party
one time and by the other the next time. He
thought it was exceedingly dangerous for gentle-
men unlearned in the law to take upon themselves to
decide a point of law ; and although he thought the Bill
of his Right Honourable Friend a great improvement,
he was afraid that it would not accomplish all that was
expected from it, and that assistance would be wanted
on points of law. He did not approve of Assessors
as a body, but he should like for one Session to
try the experiment of affording Committees legal as-
sistance under the advice and controul of the House,
and see how the experiment would work for one Ses-
sion ; and although he would not object to having a
case stated and laid before the Judges for their opinion,
yet be knew the opinion of the House was so strong
against submitting questions connected with politics to
the Judges, that he should be unwilling to recommend
such a measure.
The House then went into a Committee on the Bill.
On clause 22 being put, which was for the appoint-
ment of a general Committee of Selection,
Lord MAHON said lie could not see how the se-
lection would be made for the purpose of trying Irish
Controverted Elections. Three might be appointed on
one side, and three on the other, but who was to ap-
point the seventh ?
He did not understand how the seventh Member was to
be selected, and considered this point a great practical
objection to the Bill.—( Hear, bear.)
Sir ROBERT PEEL said the objection proceeded
on the assumption that the House was divided into two
parties, one of whom was in favour of opening the
Registry, and the other against it. He denied that
assumption. What would his Noble Friend do on this
subject. He would leave the selection to chance ?
Would he better it by that? If there happened to be
only 50 Members who were willing to attend to the
arguments, and not decide according to party motives,
he contended that selection would give a better chance
of doing justice than mere chance itself.—(Hear.)
Mr. SMITH did not think the Bill of the Right
Hon. Bart. would remove the inconveniences which at
present existed. With respect to the selection, if it
should be a good one, it would be better than chance;
but he could point out a selection made for party pur-
poses, which would be infinitely worse than chance. He
could not see how the difficulty of choosing the seventh
Member could be got over.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. O'CONNELL said the Noble Lord opposite
(Mahon) was quite correct in stating that the two par-
ties were divided on the registration, and there were 23
or 24 cases on the subject. The Right Hon. Baronet
had asked, why not decide at once whether the re
gistry should be open or not? There was no chance
of that, for every one knew that this House would
close the registry, and the House of Lords would
open it. Then, as to the selection being better than
chance, he (Mr. O'Connell) did not think that opinion
was correct. Selection of juries had been abandoned,
and chance adopted in its place.—(Hear, hear.) So
that instead of this position being borne out by the
practice, the practice was otherwise. The great diffi-
culty was in deciding on questions of law with a party
feeling. There was this to be said for chance, that a
person who was defeated by chance was not so much
irritated and punished by chance as by a wrong selec-
tion. But lie had another objection to the clause, on
which he would take the sense of the House. The
Speaker was to select six ; the six, or four of them, were
to select the seven persons who were to try. Thie
would be taking away the Speaker's responsibility. If
they were to have a selection, he should infinitely prefer
that the Speaker should have the responsibility of op.
pointing the triers than a mere nominal responsibility,
for wherever the responsibility was divided it was taken
away.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord HO WICK concurred in the arguments of the
Noble Lord opposite (Mahon), and of the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman near him (Mr. O'Connell) against
the principle of selection, but he could not altogether
oppose the clause, because many of its arrangements
were extremely useful. He approved of the division of the
House into panels. He proposed that there should be
a ballot for seven Members, and also a ballot for a sup-
plemental list of seven Members, the latter to be kept
sealed, and only opened in case of objections being made
to Members in the other list, when those objections
should be decided by the Committee of Selection. As
to the legal questions, he did not think the House likely
to agree on them, but if a competent body of assessors
were appointed, these measures might in a short time
be settled, and with a Committee elected by chance,
justice might be done. The questions of law, upon
doubtful words in the Reform Act, would be decided
by Members according to the bias of their minds to-
wards extending or confining the franchise ; and the
Committee of Selection would virtually have to decide
to which side of the House the disputed seat should
belong. This would materially damage the Committee
as to the other important duties which they had to per-
forw. The main question, however, was, whether as-
sessors should be appointed ; and he (Lord Howick)
was strongly inclined to think that they ought.
Sir R. PEEL said perhaps he had best answer the
various objections as they were urged, as he might for-
get them.—(A laugh.) He had that confidence in Hon.
Members that he believed, when selected and confided
in for the performance of a judicial duty, they would
carefully discharge it.—(Hear, hear.) He would be
quite satisfied with the positive selection of the names
by the Speaker ; but he thought it right to preserve to
the House a controlling power. It had been said that
twenty-three Committees decided according to party
bias. Could there be a stronger proof of the
defect of the present system of selecting by chance ?
( Hear, hear.) It had also been said that
Barristers decided according to party views
Did not this prove that party feeling was not
confined to that House, and that it would be futile to
attempt to remedy the evil of partiality by removing the
Jurisdiction from the House, when party feelings were as
strong out of the House as in it? If the House were to
go on proclaiming to the world its unworthiness to exer-
cise the privileges which it had possessed for ages, its
doors might as well be closed at once. He did not wish
to give the Speaker any further responsibility beyond
the selection of the six Members. If the ballet were
adopted there must be a challenge, and a challenge
would necessarily involve party feeling. As to the as-
sessors, it was an important question whether—sup-
pose a Court of Appeal from the Revising Bar-
risters—they should be made assessors to the
Select Committee. He entertained the strongest doubt
upon that point. Were the assessors to be permanent ?
If so, the consequence would be that this House, see-
ing a body of gentlemen attached to it, with duties
which would not occupy them more than one year out
of three, four, or five, would naturally endeavour gradu-
ally to throw upon them a great part of their present

private duties. Unfortunately there was a great dis-
position in the House to shrink from the performance
of all duties save those which were connected with

party.----(Fear.) When questions of finance, or juris-
prudence, or commerce came on, Members asked,
" 'then: be a division ?" and the answer being

" No," they would leave the House.—( Hear, hear.)
And if this permanent body of assessors were appointed,
the House would soon begin to transfer to them the Pri
vate Bill business—for instance ; and so go on, losing the
confidence of the people, by converting itself into a
mere debating society, and disregarding the laborious
portion of their duties.—(Hear, hear.) He was con-
vinced that there was not in election law so much mys-
tery as people were in the habit of imagining. He had
not, he owned, any peculiar reverence for men who
were apparelled in wigs and gowns—(Hear, hear, and
a laugh)—and was persuaded that any country gentle-
man, with the average education and intelligence, would,
with a little application, soon be able to make himself
master of enough of election law, to be enabled to pre-
side in an Election Committee—a duty which, in his
opinion, required no greater qualifications than those of
Chairman of Quarter Sessions.--(Hear, hear.)
Mr. C. BULLER thought it was equally open to

the House to adopt the plan of assessors, or the Bill
of the Right Hon. Baronet. Ile was inclined to con-
cur with the Right Hon. Bart. as to the great indispo-
sition on the part of young Members to do the work of
the House, and in his total want of reverence for men
merely because they wore a wig and a gown ; and also,
that Chairmen of Quarter Sessions were perfectly
competent to decide most of these questions ; but then
men must have acquired the habit of deciding these
questions, and it was not the wig and gown, but the
habit of deciding these questions that constituted the
judge. What he wanted was not so much legal know-
ledge as a permanent judicial character, and he thought
the Members had better be selected from the legal
profession, not because they alone were competent to
the discharge of these duties, but because their habits
were such as to lead them into this habit of thought.
His chief object in the appointment of assessors was to
procure permanent chairmen. According to the Right
Hon. Baronet's plan a Committee which had sat some little
time so as to acquire some slight degree of knowledge
of election law, and which, perhaps, had come to some
important decision, was to be turned adrift, and a new
Committee appointed, which would have to acquire
anew the same elements of legal knowledge, so that it
would be impossible to ensure uniformity of decision.
Intelligence, honesty, and ability, gave no security for this,
which could only be secured by the same persons always
constituting the same tribunal. He thought that the
decision of the assessors would be taken as authority on
all the common points of law and evidence. The Right
Hon. Baronet seemed afraid that the House would de-
volve upon the assessors duties which the Members of
the House themselves now discharged, but he would ask
whether those assessors might not advantageously be
called upon to perform duties which at present were
discharged by no one, such, for instance, as inspecting
the drawing up of Acts of Parliament ? And would it
not be worth all the expense, to get rid of the injustice
of the present system ? He hoped Hon. Gentlemen
would come to the discussion of this question in a spirit
of fairness, so as to strike out the best plan for the im-
provement of legislation on this subject.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL objected to the
appointment of permanent assessors. It would be more
easy to appoint them,should they be found requisite here-
after, than to get rid of them should they be found use-
less. He should, therefore, support the motion of the
Right Hon. Baronet.
Sir ROBERT INGLIS said that, admitting the
principle that the House was not to giv.e up its jurisdic-
tion, he should vote for the Bill of his Right Honour-
able Friend, although he wished he had proposed first
to decide certain questions of principle, such as those of
Qualification, and of opening the Registry. If assessors
were not to have any authority they would be a useless
incumbrance, and if they were to have authority, it
would be better for the House to give up its jurisdic-
tion at once, because it would be conceding the principle.
Mr. W ARBURTON was desirous to retain the
jurisdiction of that House upon questions like the pre-
sent. His approbation or disapprobation of the Bill of
the Right Hon. Baronet would turn upon what in
future were to be the functions of the Committ-
tee. If the Committees were to be made Appellant
Courts from the decisions of the Revising Barristers,
he would rather have the choice of having a partial tri-
bunal than an impartial one. He had no objection to
the Committees, as proposed by the Right Hon. Baronet,
provided proper questions were referred to them ;
such questions, for instance, as bribery, and the errors
of the Returnins, Officers. As for the undecided points
of law, he agreed' with the Right Hon. Baronet, that
it was for the House to decide them ; because, if
assessors were appointed, and they decided doubtful
points, contrary to the opinions of the majority of that
House, the House would take the decision of
them upon itself. He would not object to the Bill
now going through Committee, upon the un-
derstanding that he was not bound by that on the third
reading.
Sir CHARLES GREY thought the present Bill
would have the effect of constituting a far better tri-
bunal than the one existing at present for deciding
controverted elections, but he considered it stopped
short of the objects it ought to have in view. It might
be said that all that was desirable could not be ob-
tained in the present measure, and that another Bill
was necessary ; but fur his part, he thought it would
be advisable that the object should be carried out in
one Bill. The main defect was that there was not a
tribunal that was competent to pronounce a final and
permanent decision. He thought that power should be
given to the general Committee of Selection, because
if that could be done there would then be no necessity
in his opinion for legal assessors.
Mr. WYNN was surprised at the length of the
discussion that had taken place on the clause, because in
fact the whole principle of the Bill had been gone into.
With respect to the particular clause, he agreed with
the mode in which the Committee were to be appointed,
because he thought the six Members would appoint the
seventh in a far better manner than the Speaker could.
He had no objection to the appointment of an assessor,
but he objected to his having any authority or power to
vote in the Committee. The Hon. Member for Enid-
port said they ought to appoint an Appellate Court of
Jurisdiction, so that the electors might have an appeal
from the decision of the Revising Barrister, in order that
some degree of uniformity might he observed. He be-
lieved that might be effected without burdening themselves
with any very complicated machinery. His Right Hon.
Friend the Member for Tamworth had just suggested
that that would form more properly the subject of a Regis-
tration Bill, and lie believed that was the case.
Mr. VILLIERS said it appeared the House was
almost unanimous in its opinion that an Appellate Court
from the decisions of the Revising Barrister should be
appointed. If that was done, the matter would be very
much simplified, and four-fifths of the business to be
decided by the Committee would be at an end. If it
was admitted that some change in the present system
was necessary, he hoped they would now proceed as
they had the means of legislating properly upon the
subject.
Lord J. RUSSELL was glad to hear the statements
of the Hon. Member for Wolverhampton, as they had
confirmed the opinions he entertained on the subject.
Two important objects were now under discussion—
the ensuring a greater degree of certainty in deciding upon
votes, and that would be effected by hating an Appel-
late Court which, it was proposed, should be a permanent
tribunal. It was another question, what should be the
Court before which petitions complaining of undue
elections should be tried. Now if the two questions
were separated, it would throw a great deal of light upon
the question of whether they should have assessors or
not. He thought they might have a Court out of that
House for the decision of' votes which had been heard

before the Revising Barrister. When the subject -was
last before the House, he was of opinion that it would be
useful to have an assessor for the Election Committees ;
but he owned be saw many objections to the plan, when
he considered it • a little further, because it was a break-
ing in upon the principle which he wished to maintain,
that their decisions shpuld be made by Members of the

House, and that they should not go out of the House
for parties to decide these questions. It was not, how-
ever, necessary that the two objects should be com-
bined. He thought it would be better if the
Honourable Member for Liskeard took his clauses
out and embodied them in a separate Hear.)
He should give his vote, however, against professional
men being appointed as Chairmen of the Election Com-
mittees. There was also some objection to the Right
Hon. Baronet's plan of General and Select Committees.

It would be difficult to have a General Committee
which would agree for a long time in the appointment of
Select Committees. There would, after two or three
Committees were chosen, be some difference of opinion
among them, and the question then would arise that six
Members had been chosen, but as to the seventh they
must choose a party man, and there the unanimity was
at an end—there the difficulty was insurmountable. He
thought it would be better to have only six,Members
chosen by the General Committee, and then to have a
separate list of, %ay 40 Members, out of which the
seventh Member (the Chairman) should be chosen.
Let the names be put down on that separate list alpha-
betically, and the first name be appointed to the first
Committee, and so on, till the list was exhausted.—

(Hear, hear.)
Mr. C. BULLER agreed in the suggestion of the
Noble Lord, and would withdraw his clauses.—
( Hear, hear.) He had certainly been a good deal
staggered as to the propriety of his mode of appoint-
' ing the assessors. The Court of Appeal was, how-
ever, the most important part of the plan in
his opinion, and it struck him that when that Court
was appointed it would cut away so much of the busi-
ness of the Election Committees, that it would be
much less onerous, and there would be no necessity for
a permanent Chairman to be paid by the House.
Sir R. PEEL submitted that the proper time for
arguing the mode of appointment of Chairman would be
when they arrived at that clause. They were now discuss-
ing the clause as to the appointment of assessols. At

EVENING EDITION.

the same time ho had not the objection to the
appointment of a Court of Appeal for the decisions of
the Revising Barristers. He no wish to retain the
seventh mae in the appointment of the Election Com-
mittee, illthough le wet free to confess that that was the
real dilliculty of the ease. It would however be time
enee,ifu to discusl that when they came to the clause for
appointing the Chairman.
Mr. O'CONNELL thought it would be well that
the Hon. Member for Liskeard should prepare his Bill
for establishing a Court of Revision, and let it be
brought forward so as to leave that House along with
the Bill then under discussion. It was a matter of
congratulation to him that, throughout the whole of
the discussion upon that Bill, no one had even attempted
to defend the present system.

Sir C. GREY and Mr. RICH severally withdrew
the clauses of which they had given notice.
The clause was then agreed to.
So also were clauses up to 38.
Clauses 39, 40, and 41, were also agreed to.
On clause 42 being read,
Lord JOHN RUSSELL suggested that a certain
number of Members should be appointed by the Speaker
as permanent chairmen, and that they should be taken
in rotation to act as chairman in each Committee.

Sir ROBERT PEEL did not object to the princi.
ple of the proposition, but thought there would be diffi.
etilties in the practical working of it.

Mr. CHARLES BULLER thought, that instead
of taking chairmen in rotation the Committee of
Chairmen should itself elect the Chairman, by which
it would be uncertain who would have to act as Chair-
man of any Committee.
A desultory conversation ensued, in which Mr. Kelly,
Sir G. Clerk, Mr. Wynn, Mr. Evans, Sir R. Inglis,
and other Hon. Members took a part, most of them in
favour of the Noble Lord's proposition, after which,
The clause was agreed to, as were clauses 43, 44,
45, and 46.
Clause 47, after a few words from Sir Robert Peel,
Mr• Wynn, Mr. Warburton, and Lord Howick, was
agreed to.
Clause 48 was agreed to with a few verbal amend-
ments.

Clauses 49, 50, 51, 52, were agreed to without any
amendments.

Clause 53 was agreed to after a few observations
from Sir Denham Norreys and Sir Thomas Free-
mantle.

Clauses from 54 to 80 were agreed to with a few
verbal amendments.

Clauses 81, 82, and 83 were then agreed to, after
some verbal amendments.

Clauses 84 and 85 were then agreed to.
Clause 5 was postponed.
Sir C. GREY thought that a Committee of six
Memhers of the House, selected by the Speaker, would
forth a competent tribunal for reconciling conflicting
decisions, and preserving one uniform body of law.
After a few words from Mr. WARBURTON,
clause 5, with a verbal amendment, was agreed to.
Mr. C. BULLER said he should withdraw all the
clauses he had proposed to introduce with regard to
the assessors, and was quite ready to make those clauses
he had intended to propose, establishing a Court of
Appeal from the decisions of the Revising Barristers,
the foundation of a separate Bill.
Mr. WARBURTON had no objection to a Court
of Appeal.

Sir ROBERT PEEL said if the Court of Appeal
were to be merely a Court of Appeal from the decision
of the Revising Barristers, he should give his assent to
the principle of it.
Mr. AGLIONBY suggested a reduction in the
number of Revising Barristers.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that he thought a
great part of the benefit of the present Bill would be
lost unless some such measure as that suggested by the
Hon. Member for Liskeard were agreed to.

The House resumed.
The CHAIRMAN reported progress, and obtained leave
to sit again.
WINDSOR CASTLE STABLES BILL.
__

On the Report of the Windsor Castle— Stables Bi
being brought up,

GOULIIiJRN said he thought that before call-
ing upon the House to make this appropriation of the
public money, the House ought to have the estimates
before it.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
said he would first call the attention of the House to
the distinction he had drawn last night between the
general land revenue of the Crown, which was
public
property, and the funds derivable from the funds
which were under the direction of the Commssioners
of the Woods and Forests, which were not part
of the public revenue, and from which it was intended
to derive the means for the erection of these stables.
The present stables were in such a state of dilapidation
as to be a constant source of expense to seep them in
repair. It was proposed to sell them, and apply the
proceeds to the building of the new ones. It was estimated
that the site of the stables would sell for 10,0001.
The Royal stables at St. James's, without any riding
house, cost between 60,0001. and 70,0001., and it was
essential to her Majesty's health that she
should have the opportunity of taking horse exercise
which could not be the case unless the riding house
were erected, and the only estimate that could_ be
possibly furnished was that these stables would cost
70,000/., which Sir J. Wyattville in his original plan had
estimated at upwards of 100,000/.
Colonel SIBTHORP had listened to the statement
with great pleasure, and would agree to anything likely
to conduce to the comfort of her Majesty.

Mr. WILLIAMS had understood thiit all the Crown
property was public property, and contended that the
whole of the expense would be defrayed by the public.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER ex-
plained.

Lord DUNGANNON would be sorry to see the
day when any thing regarding the improvement of a
national monument like Windsor Castle should become
matter of cavil in that House.

Mr. M. PHILLIPS said his only object was to as'
certain the bona fide sum which would be required, and
he thought that it would present the contract being
taken economically if the suns agreed to be voted were
known before hand.

Mr. J. BARING said a few words that were in-
audible in the Gallery.
Mr. WAKLEY said, when he reflected on the man-
ner in which union workhouses, were built, he thought
such a sum being voted for stables was an extrava-
gance that the present state of the finances of the
country did not warrant, and lie would move, as an
amendment, that the sum be reduced to .50,000/.
The amendment not having been seconded, the Re-
port was agreed to, and leave given to bring in a Bill.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL, in answer to a question
from Colonel Sibthorp, said, if he proceeded with the
Registration of Electors Bill, it would not be the men-
sui e now before the House. If they proceeded with
any Bill, it would be one which his Learned Friend the
Attorney-General would introduce to the House.

TIIE CHARTISTS.
Lord DUNGANNON moved for a return of anY
communication received by her Majesty's Secretary of
State for the Home Department, from the various local
authorities in England and Wales, relative to the as'
scniblin,g together and arming of certain persons deno-
minating themselves Chartists.

Lord J. RUSSELL could not agree to the return,
as it would be making public confidential commutoca-
tions.

Col. SIBTIIORP thought the return ought to be
granted, for if it were not it would be thought there was
something they were afraid to disclose.
Mr. WAKLEY believed that the accounts of the
people arming in the country had been greatly exag-
gerated. He trusted that the Noble Lord, if he could
do so consistently with his duty, would grant the return.
Lord J. RUSSELL said, that the meetings held in
the Whitsun-week were of a fir less illegal character
than he had been led to expect from the
threats held out and the language used by
misguided persons ; and that the Commander in the
Northern District had stated that that part of the
country was in a more satisfactory state than it had
been for some time.

Lord DUNGANNON would not press his motion
after the statement of the Noble Lord.
Mr. FINCH thought the accounts of the people
arming were grossly exaggerated.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
obtained leave to bring in a Bill to make perpetual Act
l Vic. c. 80, to exempt certain bills of exchange and
promissory notes from the operation of the usury laws.

The RIGHT HON. GENTLEMAN, in answer to
a question from Colonel Sibthorp, said that the re-
turns now before the House included all the expenses
of the mission of the Earl of Durham to Canada. If
any further information came to his knowledge, it should
be laid before the House.

Mr: BARING brought in the Windsor Castle
Stables Bill, which was read a first time.

The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of;
and the Hopie adjourned at a Quarter before One
o'Clock.

PATENT LEVER WA TcHE •
With silver double-bottom cases ...... 6 0
Withsilver hunting cases ............................... "•'••"•""6
.
1Y 6
This celebrated construction (the most •
accurate en which
a watch can be made) i 3 offered, with the latest improve-
ments i. e. the detached escapement, jewelled in four hole,'
n
capped, hand to mark the seconds, hard enamel dial, and mai"'
taiing power to cantina
price, by going while winding up, at the above

T. COX ORY
Watchmaker, Silver and GoldS sm AiVth, 47,, Cornhill, London,
(Seven doors from Gracechurch-street).
N.B.—Second-hand Watches purchased in exchange.

BIRTHS.
On the Ist inst., at Manchester. street, Manchester-square,
Mrs• John Bal it Chatterton, of a son.

On the s!h inst., Mrs. William J.-Capper, of a son

London: Printed and Published by MURDO YOUNG, °
No. 112, Strand, at The Sun Office. No. 112, Strands In
the county of Aliddlesex..—Friday, June 7, 1839.