The Sun.
London, England, 1806-05-31 00:00:00

INVIA,

Mr. •5t.11,17/.:lNobserved, that lie was prevent-
ed by indisposition from attending in his place ow a
former night, when lie understood some allusions
were Made to a near, and dear relation of_ his, an
-Hon. Member, which -were unfounded and unjust..
He said the alluSions related to a transadion in
\illicit the Governor of Madras
,and the Governor-,
6cueral of India Were at iSsue. The condua of his
brother, be stated,, was disapproved by the Govern-
tnent of Madras, but was pronounced highly meri-
torious by the Governor-General. The Hon. Mem-
ber had said that his brother had conveyed .the se-
crets of the Government to the NA)ob, which was
14ntruc. He then proceeded to justify his relation,
and moved for several [japers on the subjeEt..

Mr. IfiIITSILEI) :KEENE, said;on looking
over the List of the Debts of the. Nabob
.of the Car-
vatic, he'referred Merely, to what was inserted in
the,Paper, Which had had an etre& on his mind, and
on which lie made hig former observations; and was
concerned if he gave pain to any Gentleman.
Mr.SULLMIN said, after what he had stated
to the .Hon. Gentleman, he trusted, he would have
done justice to his brother, instead of which he ag.
gravated .his former remarks. He then . proceeded
to justify his conduCk, by leading Extracts from a.
Pamphlet published on the subject.
Mr. W. KENE explained.
'Mr. ELLISON contended, that when an indi-
vidual vas criminated, he had a right to bring for-
ward the best evidence lie had, and agreed thorough-
ly with what had been stated by the Hon. Gentle-
man who made the Motion. .

• The Motion was then ptit and agreed to.
Sir JouNNEwrout• said,,he should, on NiVeanes7
day, submit a proposition to •the House, to e.stabliSh
a free and unrestrained intercourse of all sorts of
brain between Great Britain and Ireland.
Alderman COMBS obtained leave to bring in a Bill
to repeal the Additional Force Bill, as far as related
to the City of London.
Mr. PAULL moved for several India Papers; which
was agreed to, after a few observations from Mr.
Arthur Wellaey.
The House resolved itself into a Committee-of
Ways and Means for Ireland ; ,Mr. Parnell in the
Chair. •
Sir JomrNEWPORT moved, that there be a duty
of one shilling per barrel laid on all _the Malt in Ire,
land, to commence from the 2d of June next.. .
And also a duty of four shillings, on every barrel.
of Malt converted into spirits in... Ireland ; the
amount of this Tax he estimated at 30,0001. Tire Motion was agreed to, and the Report was ordered
to be received on Monday next.
Mr. ALEANDER brought up the Report of the
ComMittee for granting Salaries to. the West
,India
Commissioners, and other Commissioners, Audi-
tors, Clerks, which was agreed to, and pro-
vision was ordered to be made- accordingly in the
Auditor's Bill. -

The SECRETARY at WAR presented several Ac-
counts pursuant to order.

BRITISH MUSEUM,

Mr. BANKS brought up ,the Report of the Com-
mittee appointed to examine the Buildings ereded at
the British Museum, which stated .that the .Build-
lags would he finished in the 'course of three or four
months, and that the Estimate voted amounted to
Q 2401. and that an extra sum was necessaryto finish
the Building, amounttug to 6001. Ordered to be laid
'our the Table. _

•Mr. RftsE presented a Petition from several West
India Meichants against thcl Amerian Intercourse

Sir CHARLES PRICE presented a similar. Petition
from the Owners of several 'British Ships. _ Both
PetitiQns were ordered to he laid on the Table:

LIMITED SERVICE.

The Order of the Day a foroing into a Committee
on the Mutiny Bill being read,ti

The StCittlillY at Waal moved, that the Houk
`do now resolve itself into the said Committee.
Lord CASTLEREAGH,from motives of conve-
nience, would first put-two questions to the Right
Hon. Gentleman opposite.. The first Was,_whether
it was intended that bounties should be given for re-
enlistment at the expiration of the different periods
of service ?' The other Was with regard to the pen-
SionS, whether it was meant, at the expiration of 14-
yeali serViee, to allow what was called a half pen-
sion, or six-pence a day, and at the end of P. I yeai's
'service, the full, pension of one 'shilling a day ?- •
Mr. Secretary WINDHAM replied, that the eat=
'pediency Of bounties for re-enlistment-would be-,
come a matter of future consideration and reilula,
tion. With respeet to pensions, he 'should be in-,
dined to propose a lower at the expiration of i 4 -
years service, and the full pension
,on the .comple-
tlon of the 2 1 years service.
Lord dASTLEREAGHexpresSed himself unsa-
tisfied answer of the ,
as to tine bonnties,' and again inquired, whether he
had it in contemplation to give any bounties on re-
enlistment, and to what amount, distin& from and
independent of the 'reversionary allowances.
Mr. Secretary WINDHAM thought it was too,
much to ask of him, what was the amount of boun-
ty that would be given at a future period, she cir-
cumstances attending-which it was impossible to
foresee.

Mr. PERCIVAL Said,. that the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman mistook the questibn Of his NOble Friend,—
It was not so much dire&ed to the amount of the
bouhties; as to ascertain whether, or not it was in-
tended to give any bounty at allb
Mr. WINDHAM answered, that prob !NI; it
would be desirable to allow a bounty on re-enlist-
ment, but this, Or the amount of it, must be entirely
governed by circumstances No one could predict
what the service Might require.,
Mr: CANNING corn plaited, that the Right Hon.
Gentlemaii.et7aded the question of his'Noble Friend.
The: Right Hon. Gentleman had, on a fo.rmer oeca-
sion, expressed his confidence, that at the periods of
expiration of service most of the men woIN re-enlist.
Did.he think that this effeet Would -be prOduced by
the excellenCe of his plan alone,.withotq any exter-
nal ajplication whatever, or that it would bemece*-
sary to reel-nit for those Men .again w,ith a bounty ?
Mr. WINDHAM said, it is as true he had not
answered ..yliat he could not answel% lie certainly
conceived.som bounty -would be necessary, but it
was itllooii* to say; how much. Nothing was
binding in the present measure but that which re-
lated to the inimediate bal gain.-

Me. 0'11.41L1 hoped .that it was. intende,l to take
'men for 7, 14, 2 1 years, or for life, just as they
chose to engage,.and'tha a bounty commensurate to
the length of their proposed se:vice should of course
be allowed them. He trusted that no man would be
refused in whatever way his services were offered,
but that the terms of 'enlistment should, be adapted
accordingly. He was proceeding, when-.
The SPEAKER interposed, .observing that the
question before the House Was merely for the corn-
r3ittal of the common Mutiny MI, no alteration of
the nature alluded to having' hitherto been proposed.
The House then resolved itself into a Committee,.
Mr; ALEXANDER in thesCh.l:r.

Several. of the clause's having been gone thrqugh,
and agreed to-, •
Mr., Yoxi.(n- asked what were the alterations in
the hods, of the Bill ?

The S'ECRETAEKat WAR Obseryed, that there
Were none in the body. In the form of the oath to
be taken by the recruit was contaisned the proposed
alteration.

Mr. YOR.RE making some further inquiry,
Mr. &cretary -IEINDHAAI rose to state; that
in the' bath which he meant to propose fiir adop-
tion, it was intended to till up the blanks with a 'term
of service of seven years in the" first place ;. of three
years additional at His Majesty's pleasure, or three
months after the conclusion of a peace., In case
reeruit was under 18 years of age, so many years to
be added to the seven as were necessary to complete-
the 18. It was also intended. to propose, in Arlo,
ther clause, that every soldier serving abroad en,
titled to his discharge should be sent to Great Efi-
tain free of expence, and, on his landing, receive
the accustomed marching_money, and that the same
marching money should also, be allowed. to a sol=
dier discharged Great Britain. These aiuses
Would, put the House in possession 'di- the sy
. tern which he wished to establish. It would
be seen, that Whatever bargains: might be made
for the present, it was intended
.to: leave it in the
power of the Legislature to vary them in -future.—
This, he .trusted, 'would do a.tay the great alarm
that had existed as to any irrevocable engagements
of the State. Nothing that was_tb be proposed was
irrevocable, but simply the faith pledged to the indi-
vidual who immediately entered:the service. EVery
subsequent regulation was subject to the alteration,
which circumstances might demand. In answer to
the objeEtions that had been made against this' mea-
sure, he would not dissemble, that in this, as well as
in every thing-else, a sacrifice must be made,_some- •
thing must be given ,up to' get a great deal inore.--.L
It was not, as had been stated by the Eldn., Gentle-
men opposite, a wanton innovation ; an attempt to
mend that which was already well ; a hazardous ex-
: perinient, where no alteration was necessary. By,
adopting the measure, we certainly should 'put our-
selves under the necessity of parting with .more than
we could wish to part with. No one could deny,
that 'to part with soldiers in time of war was objec-
tionable, unless it was done in the hope of,' obtaining
a greater accession of strength. In this, as well as in
every other trans:,6t:on, no advantage could be gained
without paying a price for it. The same principle
regulated the acquirement of wealth, and a man
possessed of money Might,as Well be deterred trom
hying out considerable sums in the hope of o!:tain,
!nor.: considerable returns. As to she necessity

of a _measure for increasing our military strength,
did • the Gentlemen opposite mean seriously to say,
that 'Government was not pressed by necessity to
adopt the measure ? What had the House been
about for the last fifteen years ? Were -not the-va-
rious Plans adopted- during that period so many,
modes of recruiting out of the common method ? And
did not this, evince an universal confession that theor-
dinary mode was inadequate to the wants of ‘he State ?
If these Plans did not arise from a strong feeling and
copvidion of this fad, they certainly were part of
the 'most wanton and most extraordinary system of
innovation that the world had ever. heard of. What
induced the House to agree to the augmentation of
the Militia (as it was originally proposed) toloo,ooo
Men ? If the ordinary recruiting bad been deemed
. Sufficient, would recourse haire been had to a measure
so harsh-and unpleasant ?It had been tried, however,.
till it could do no more, till it had accomplished all
it could accOmplish, and this was to stop at 80,000
instead of 100,000 men. Peace ensued. When the
War again broke fOrth, a sudden augmentation of the
Militia was again deeined expedient. It was once
more 'tried to increase the. Militia. to an extraor-
dinary ainount, and to- give a sufficient stimu-
lus to the increase by penalties, which-accumulated
quarterly. What was the 'const.quence ? The pur-
. pose of Government was not carried had execution,
and yet the effe& of the measure was tobe nearly
destructive of the means of ordinary recruiting. The
Army of Reserve followed. This was compulsion-
umier- another form, with the penalties doubled.
Did' this sheW that the regular recruiting was suffi-
.eient? He would not say that. the Army of Re-'
serve -Ad
,had' failed, because it certainly had
produced' a nuinber of men, although it fell far,
short of what was promised by the authors of it.,
It did its 'utmost, and 'it Only professed to be tempo-:
Then
..came the Additional Force Ad. He
would not sa4:r of the-Gentlemen opposite, what they
.said of the present Administration, namely, that they
brought forward a new military measure because out
of office they had, talked about it, and pledged then-i.
selves to do so ; and yet the pledge of those Gentle-
men was-much stronger .than any pledge which the
present AdMinistration.' might be supposed to have
given; for the Administration which immediately
'preceded, that of which those Gentlemen formed 'a
part, were actually removed from office on the
ground7if the inefficiency of their military measures.
They were 'therefore bound, as it were, to bring
'forward rnethipg ; and he must confess that what
the did .bring forward was very like a something
'that 'they were compelled to 'produce: The fad
was, that that Admlilistration felt themselves obliged
(having destroyed the Militthy Plans of their prede-
cessors) either to revert to the ordinary Means of re-
cruiting, which were avowedly instiffiCient, 'or in-
troduce some new and original measure in its kind.
Could it be said, then, they did this wantonlyi and
not from necessity ? was whimsical enough, that
when an Honourable Gentleman subsequently
moved efor the continuance of the Additional
Force Ad; he asserted, that if it was 'not con,.
tiOued we should have nothing. Why, what-was
there before ?• Something.' There was Ihe ordinary
recruiting " But (said he) if you take away this
new system you leave.nothing.': No ! Did you not
leave the..old mode ? The old Mode, however, s'as
evidently insufficient ; and of this new mode, if he
might venture to pursue it to its grave, " to 'draw it
from its dread abode," he would repeat that it had
completely failed. There was indeed a principle in it
(as he had formerly observed) of self-destrudione—
An Hon. Gentleman had accused him of never hav-
ing read this same Additional Force Ad. However
this might be," he was perfectly satisfied to under-
stand it, even if he had not read it. The Hon. Gen,
Oman, on the contrary; had read it„ and did not un-
derstand it. He certainly did not understand it, if he
did not see that' had the Ad succeeded it must have
reduced its quota to 9000:men, and all its subsequent
operation would have, been-to supply the defieiency
in those 9000 men. As it was, the Ad was in dan-
geroaf coMpletely falling in arrear, for it had begun
with a deficiency of 16,000 men, and it ended With
a deficiency of 26,000.. It was running a race in
which the farther it ran ahe more it was behind. It
would have been equally ruined either by success
or by failure ; and khe only chance of its exist-
ence would have been in an intermediate state, as
• had been well said by a Right, Honourable Friend
of his (Mr. Sheridan), " Certain 'feeble' constitu-
tions, always ailing, but never ill, frequently hold
out better than the Mostrobust habits." Not only
did the Ad produce few men, but it prevented men
from being raised by other means. What men" had
been gained by it were gained by the infringement
of its provisions, and at the. expence of morality and
virtue. - He trusted, therefore, after haVing thus
stated the various means used to add to Our Military
Force, it 'would- no longer be said, that no necessity
existed for a measure in aid of the regular recruiting.
That necessity being admitted; the - question was,
What should be . done ? 'He was happy to observe
the' change in the opinions of Gentlemen opposite,
who now all' were anxious, in, any new measures, to
look to'the interests of futurity. • It was a laudable
alteration, of sentiment, although the declaration
seemed to could rather oddly from individuals who
were so recently and systematically, preferring tem-
porary measures to permanent ones. Nobody bad
any new projects. He had none. All , the good
sense on this subjed, in his opinion, lay in a little
compass. Al) the option that the nature of the.case
ollered was tutee or choice, or a combination of the
two. Where force had been hitherto. used, all had
'been got Mat force could give,but the future sources of
supply ha' been destroyed. In the Navy, compulsidn'
was perhaps indiSpensible: it quickened the operation.
of the bounty. But In the land service it was a differ-
ent thing, for there substitutes could be provided,and
the only result t liereforeofcompulsion -was toproduce
a competition • that 'raised the bounty to 30, or 40 gui-
neas;.and.destroyed all futurerecruiting for the.army.
Compulsory measures were like those cordials ap-
plied to relieve severe indisposition, but which tend-.
ed eventually to injure the general tone of the health.
It was inexpedient to havC: recourse to such mea-
sures until others of a milder nature had been tried
inetfeolually..Such was that now proposed in volun-
tary enlistments df making that which was propos-
ed worth acceptance.. The utmost that the skill of
legislators and recruiters could do was to communi-
cate to those likely, to accept them the advantages
which were offered. If, after this bad been tried, it
was not found that a 'sufficient portiop of the pop
lation- of the country thought the state of a soldier

better tl as their oWn, compulsion must be'resorted
to, but Certainly not otherwise. The high wages
and 'the other advantages that the great population
of the country enjoyed were the" causes that had
hitherto rendered the situation of the soldier coin-
paratively ineligible, You cannot, and you would
not if you could, change the state of your popula-
tion, but you may change the state bf your soldiery.
If any one thing was more than another in the pow-
er of a -Government, it was to meliorate the situation
of those in their pay. How was this to be-done ?
It was not possible to make the life of a soldier a life
of safety, ease, or great profit, but at no period would
motives be wanting_ to attra& men to that honoura-
ble profession. If the existing ,inotives were not
sufficient they ought to be aided by others. One of
these was abolishing the enlistment for life, or at
least for an indefinite term, in the option of the perc.
son in whose service such enlistment might be made.
He had heard it strangely argued, .that if the ser-
vice were not considered .eligible for, life •it would
not be eligible for seven years. The reasons,.how-
ever, which-must weigh with a recruit for preferring
the limited time were numerous. The option of
quitting at the expiration of his term, or of continu.
ing in the service, must be considered by him as ad-
vantageous. .He made a trial of a soldier's life: His
circumstances might change, and a thousand events
occur to influence his determination one way Or
other. It was childiSh to argue against it, far it
must be evident to the sense of. all mankind that
such a power of rejection or acceptance, after -a cer-
tain period, must operate powerfully in inducing a
Man to enter into the service. With respe& to the
opinion of an Eton., General, who thought mere men
might be obtained by offering to enlist nienj-or
litrtit-
ed space as well as for a limited period, he could not
agree with him. One great attra6lionto the Army
would be done away by limiting the space of service.,
What were the present attractions which a man felt.
to, induce hith to enlist in the Army.?. To. go
abroad, to see the world, to become a real soldier,
to partake of action, lb witness the deaths of heroeS,,
to tell of the " autres 'vast and &Lifts wild" he had
seen, and of the. hair-breadth escapes i' th'
sent deadly breach he had experienced, to some rus-
tic Desdemona, the daughter, perhaps, of the village,
landlord,:who, returning from drawing a tankard of
ale for herfather'S customers, would " with greedy.
ear devour his discourse." He would diaTfe the evils
_which had been attributed to the measures he pro.
posed, under three heads : Ist, the supposed ill
effectit would have on the character of the Army ;
the incumenicncies that would result from
it' to the Colonial Service ; . and acily, the in-
jury that would in many cases. be sustained by dis-
charging Wien during War, at thedifferent periods of
the expiration of, their, terms of service.. With re-
gard
to the ill effect that it would have on the cha-
rgler of the. Army; the experience of every service;
in every part of the world, proved that this objec-
tier) was without foundation. He could ,not here
avoid noticing the remark of an Hon. Gentleman On
this,subjeft, who, in his examination of the military
systems of modern. EUrope, wished to:exclude France
udder her MOnarehy—a Monarchy which had:con-
tinued for 1400 years, and which, highlyenlightened,
had served in many respe6ts as a model to its neigh-
bours, That.under the FrenCh Monarchy the Troops
were enlisted for a term of 'years was indisputably:
true. •Tiie only- doubt that had
.arisen was, whe,
;her or -not they were discharged durinc, the con-'
tinuance of War. This dotibt. will be done away
by the inspeaion 'of an ordinance issued in i 778,
which declared that - the liberty of dischrge should
no longer be allowed, and which, therefore, thew-
ed, that it had been granted to that period, al-,
though, with the arbitrary power, of a 'despotic Go:,
vernment, the right was then taken away'. Previ
ously to year 1765, the term of in-France
was for six years. In 1765, it was changed: to eight
years.. At the commencement of the War. in /1778;
the Government of Franco. wanted 'Soldiers, and the.
ordinance to which- he had before alluded Was pro-
mulgated; an ordinance which distinctly proved the
prior "exisence of the Rraefiee of discharging, at
certain periods, even in the time of a6luaar.
Nobody denied the inconvenience of discharging
men at the time they were wanted, as nobody de-
nied the inconvenience of paying
.money when it
became due on Bonds: The- inconvenience was
borne for the sake of a superior advantage. AS to
the'supposed incompatibility of limited service with,
the Military charader, all the experience of fhe
world was against such a supposition. An those
countries in which the rights of Soldiers weri the
least attended to, limited service- was the praEtice.
He did not wish to rest the question on authority,
but if he chose to instance a case .in whidh
caldischarges, and during time of War, were al-
loWed ; lie would ask Gentlemen opposite if they
had ever heard of such a people as the Swiss ? They
were among the most esteemed troops on the Con-
tinent.; and yet there was not a single Bwiss Regi-
ment, the Soldiers of which did not enlist for a short
term of years, and who were not entitled to be'
discharged during War. What became then of all
the .specious arguments that had been adduced against
the adoption of this system in England ?--Except,
indeed; it•was urged that, Swiss were not English !
As truly too might it be said, that French were not
English, nor Austrians English, nor Swedes English !
He had been called a theerist. He bad no objection
to the term, if it were .not intended to convey re-
proach ; and it ought not to convey reproach, for
what was it to be a theorist, but to try something
Which had not been done before, and it was hardly
possible to do any thing exacaly. :as it had been
'done' before.. If he had adverted to a different and
distinct class of people for examples, such as the
Negroes or the Chinese, he might have deserved
censure ; but the experiment had been Successfully
tried by those whose resemblance to ourselves
was so near as to Warrant our expecting a simi-
lar result from a 'similar process. In considering
the second point, namely, the inconveniences that
would 'result from the periodical discharge of Men,
he repeated, that he-was glad to find the Gentlemen_
opposite had so Suddenly. become alive to the inte-
rests of futurity.. It was not long since their anxiety
was solely about the present, " Oh save us from the
evils of the present day !" was their cry, " and let the
future take care of itself." No set of Epicurean
philosophers was ever more solicitous to secure pre-
sent enjoyments. Now on a sudden they • were all
for posterity, " For God's sake take care what you
are about, or at the end of seven years the Country
will be ruined !" This feeling might be pushed to ,

excess. At Any rate the arguments of the Gentlemen
opposite were completely •inconsistentS' fir in the
first place, they' contended that few Men would be
raised by the measure, and then they asserted that
the evil produced .by this diScharge at the expi-
ration \of seVen years would be 'considerable...-.
Now nothing was more certain than that the, present
good and the future evil must be proportioned to
each other. They declared too, that the' effect Of
the Measure would be to.discharge periodically a se-
venth of the Army. -This was a complete_ fallacy.
It was rather an odd supposition, that in the Army
(of all bodies sf-t-rien) no casualties would occur !
What did they suppose the annual loss .would be ?
Taking the annual ,mortality at 12,000, it must be
fifteeen years before the loss which the. Army would
sustain by the limited service for seven' years,
would amount to a twelfth of its fnrce. And
at no 'period would the loss arise to an alarming
amount. Besides, the ii jury be discharg-
ing men would not be incurred but for thepurpose
of securing; preponderating advantages. And in
acting thus,:he 'was only following the principle.by
which society had become cultivated and improved.
What distinguished the British Merchant, or the
British Agriculturist, from the Merchant '0 Agri-
culturist of any other Country ? The. readiness
with which he 'made sacrifices to obtain advans
tages. Why did a Planter send in the axe to-a fine
grove of young trees, but for the purpose of destroy-
ing some, to give greater value to the- remainder ?
In the only part of hcisharidrY with which he was
familiar; the cultivation of turnips, What benefits re-
sulted from sacrificing a part to the improvement
of the rest ? This was not a subject on which the
opinion of Officers would weigh so much with him
as in ssime others. He knew' that Officers were
often justly proud of the appearance of their 'Regi--
ments ; they had probably a grenadier cOmpany,
not an individual of which was under five feet ten
inches in height, and they did not like the idea of •
parting with such men. It was a popular,
avaricious feeling, which dilated the sentiment—
`.` Get all you can, and keep all you get.- By keeping
all we could, we did not get all we might. We must
not count on what we parted from, and not count on
that for which we made the sacrifice. Now for the .
third head; the injury likely to accrue to our Colonial
Service, many means of supplying that service might
be resorted to. It was an injury that could not take
place for-ten or seven years at least ; and there would
therefore be room enough left to apply-means which
would diminish the inconvenience. Look; at the
East Indies, the strongest instance that could be ad-
duced, because the most distant. The East India
Company had enlisted-men for five years, and kept
perfectly good faith with them, and they vent on
from time to tide recruiting for that term, nor-ais;
continued until they were stopped by Government,
on account of their interference with the recruiting
for the Regular Army. If therefore in this strong.:
est instance, recruiting for limited periods was
found eligible, surely we need not despair of expe-
riencing the same success in other and more favour-
able quarters. The. Right Hon. Secretary here re-
capitulated all his arguments ; and, in the course of
that recapitulation observed, that it would perhaps
be desirable to give to the Soldier retiring from,ser-
vicethe enjoyment of certain civil privileges ; par-
tici:liar-1y the eleaive franchise, not for boroughs, or
the Scotch counties which- resembled . boroughs, but
for English counties. • Such a privilege would mate-
rially tend to raise the charader, of the Army. He
concluded by proposing the Clause containing the
oath to'-be taken by a recruit on his enlistment.
Sir JAMES PULTENEY, in.rising to reply to
part of, what hadfallen from -the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman, meant to 'confine himself strictly to those'
points which the -Rin-ht Hon.- Gentleman had done
hiM the honour to .notice from' his speed' on this
subjed on a former occasion. The Right' Hon;
Gentleinan.hadobserved, upon an opinion expressed
by him on that occasion, that a-greater number of
men could be raised by having the limited and un-
limited serVices ,open :to.them, and contended that
more would be induced' to enlist by.a passion for
glory, and a desire to see.the world, and to serve in
foreign climates.—For his oWn part, he was reads' to-
admit that some might be influenced by such mo-
tives; . though- he should still maintain, that the ad-
,
vice of friends would have -an effeet• in favour of
service limited in point of. space,. and create a pre
fe`rence for. home service.—Could the , Right. Hon.
Gentleman think that, with a view to a praaiCal
measure, the passion for glory, or any
,other feel-
ing that he had mentioned, would be an induces
merit ? He• did not think meanly' of English Mens
but they-were like other men, and , they were- to be
taken as they really were. ' The Right Honourable
Gentlemari had • expressed surprise that lae, who
was attached, to an •Army enlisted for life, should
think so favourably of a home Army-. • The reason
,was, he wished to have an Army for unlimited.sers'
vice, if possible ; and if not, to take into-the limited
force such men as could not otherwise be had;
and because 'men, when they acquire a taste for a
soldier's life, night more easily be induced to enter
for unlimited service. He thought the-Right Hon.
'Gentleman's plan, if it was the opinion ofthe House
that it ought to be tried, , should be confined to the
2d battalions. As to what he had said respeaing the-
military systems of foreign Powers, the general prac-
tice was enlistment for life: That was the 'case in
Prussia, except that- a few foreigners might be en-
gaged on other terms ; .it was the case in Russia ;
and 'limited service had only lately been introduced
into the army of Austria. The practice of France had.
been not to discharge a man during a war. Why
should this country take up a system that Prance.
had laid down ? Whilst the French armies hid been
recruited on that principle they had been unsuccess-
ful in all quarters of the world. , They had been held
in utter contemptby the Auslrian armies, then enlisted
for The alteration in the period of service- would
have a serious effect on a soldier, who, within a year
or two of the expiration of his term would be look-
ins, to it with anxiety, arid could not feel as a soldier.
If enlisted for life, or during the war, he would make
up his mind, and look to the service as a profeSsion.
His opinion -was still the same he had communicated
in writing. He. had not been able to follow the Right
Han. Gentleman in his calculation of the deficiency
that would arise from the discharge of the • men at
the conclusion 'of their term of service. He sup-
posed the calculation might be well founded ; but
there must be some loss in his way, which, added to
the drains of Colonial Service, and the casualties

during a tong War, would make a,considerable defi-

ciency. The men too that wonld be to be dischar4- •
ed would be men of the very j3est,description in the
Army, perfe& in discipline, seasoned to 'different
Climates, and they to whom-Reeruits•usually looked
up. To discharge such men under such circum-
stances would ruin the Army.. It was not clear to
him that any amelioration' would be produced in th,e•
condition' of the Army by the Right Lion. Gentle-
'mart's system, becalpie he did not think:_ bat a better
description of men would 'be induced to enter into
it. The last ordinance that had been made by _the
French Government relative to rectUitik; direaed
'that the tern' should be eight 'years, butit allowed
men to enlist for a lOnger period if they chose. If
the House, therefore, shoUld determine thatthis ex-
perimeut should be tried, be -was of opinion thai it
should be tried in such a manner as would leave the
regular recrniting to be carried-on as usual. • •
Mr. 17011Kehnclig.iven way with pleasure to his
Hon. Friend, because.as bee differed himself so entire-
ly from the Right Hon.. Secretary, he thought that it
would be desireable to hear an oftion- from suelt an-
authority: The Honse, he was sure,. ought not. to
decide on this important question .without hearing
and attending to the -opinions of all the experienced
Officers that were Members of it. He had listened
with great attention to the able and eloquent speech
of the Right Hen; Gentleman, without being
vinced, or induced to alter any part of his former •
opinion. The discussion then pending was a;question
to leave out. an usual clause in the Mutiny Bill, tbK
the purpose of introdUcing au innovation that was
not likely to produce any practical good effeCt, and
might be attehded With much Mischief.. '.He was one
of these whO thought, from thedelay s that had occur-
red' bet Ween -the opening speech and the produaion
of the ,measnre, that -His Majesty's Ministers had
abandoned .the proje&, or resolved to put off the con.:
sideration of it for the present, becetuse be thought,
that otherwise they would not, upon What-appeared
to him shallow pretences, have refused to the HouSe
such lights as could be'derived from the written, opi- •
pions of experieneed Officers, one of which, if he
was rightly informed,, had-been given in lately. -He
had hoped that they, had re,consulted those Gene-
ral Officers, and were disposed to as upon their opi-
nions. Butas they had not, he, upon a feeling of duty,
felt himself called uponetdenter his protest in that
stage against this dangerous innovation. He did se, not
according tO the distindion made by the Right Hon.
Gentleman, relative to the sworn Servants of the •
Crown and those on the side of the House on which
he was speaking. He, as a Member sworn of His
Majesty's Council, was, bound,.' if called on, to
give his advice to the best' Of ,his judgment-,- as-he
gave his opinion there as a -Member of that House.
A great objeCtion which be felt to this measure wai,•
the manner in which it. was attempted to be
ingrafted on the Mutiny Bill,' because it -was wholly
unnecessary in the first place, and unconstitutional
in the next place, for His Majesty's Ministers to
attempt' to introduce. it in this manner. It Nvas un-
necessary, because, as the Right Hon. Gentleman. -
oppesite (Mr. Secretary Fox) had observed on ano-
fifer occasion, that House_ ought not tO legislate
on •subjects that did not require legislation. He •
should ask that' Right Hon. Gentleman, why in.;.
troduce the matter into thus Bill,, if the undoubted
prerogative.of the Crown .Were sufficient ? On what
pretence, then, engraft this clause on the, Mutiny •
Bill ?' Were not the faith of Government, and the
solemn pledge of His- Majesty sufficient ? Why
were they called. on to depart frotu•what had been
the praetice of our ancestors, which 'had never been.
departed from, . but in itN.Vo instances, one of w7hich
had occurred in the worst tinles, in the reign of Queen ,
Anne, and the administration of Lord Bolingbroke;
The other instance had occurred in the Adnunistra- •
tion of Lord North. The manner in Which the mea-
sure was to be introduced into the Mutiny Bill ap-
peared to him unconstitutional, beCause it would de-
prive His'Maje§ty and Parliament of their constiqi-
tional, right of resisting the measure. He admitted
that it might be debated as a clause in every stage till .
it shohld come to.the question on its passing, when
the HouSe could not think of rejeaing- the Mutiny
Bill containing' such a provision; i)ecause theyinigltt -
be reduced to a day, and on the Mutinyflill depend- •
ed the discipline of the Army. The same Consi:der, •
arionswould prevent His Majesty from exercising his
constitutional prerogative, if he disapproVed. of the
measure. These ,were they. preliminary ohjeatiOns
which he felt to the. measure. There were otheri.
Which weighed very powerfully with his mind, and
which he should nett 'cchisider, "Nothing that he- . •
could say, he was sure, Would induce His Majesty's,
1
Ministers to give -up their measure. He had had
experience enough of some of them to know, that,
though they brought forward crudetmeasurese which
excited considerable difference of opinion in that
House and elsewhere, they had pertinacity to bear •
them through. He did nut expect even to persuade.
them to delay their measure. The Right Hon. Gen-
tleman had stated before, and repeated that night,
that he did-not look for any immediate effe.6l, but to
the ultimate advantage to be derived from his mea- •
sure. If he did not expea any iemnediate beheti-
cial result, why did he bring forward: a .measure
Upon Which Considerable doubts existed in that
House, and which had excited so much appre- •
henSion in the-Army. ? What necessity was there
to press the matter at present ; why not put- it
Off to next Session, and take time to consider it -
more maturely; ,and to consult able and experienced
Officers on. the subjea ? He did not: despair, how- '
ever, of being able to persuade some MembLfrs of the
Committee that they ought to 'pause, before- they e
shonld adopt a measure of such . mischievous ten-
dency to the Artily;; before they Would sanction
innovation, in the system of that Army, to which, in .
these perilous, alarming, and critical times, they. were, •
under Providence, to look for security and proteCtione
and.that at a time too when the Army was admitted
to be sufficient for the occasion.. This subjea lie in,
sisted 'depended upon fact and-experience: Though
he.. had heard -the ingenious speech of the Right ..
Honourable Gentleman with attention, he had
.not been able to discover a • single IA- or a
Single calculation on which his measure was to. be
grounded. It was not sufficient for that Rt'. Hon.
Gentleman to say that he expe&ed his measure
would be successful; lie ought to have produced
faas to justify that opinion. There were documents
upon the Table to which he should refer for fitaS as
to the measures that had beed taken at different pe-
riods to remedy the defects in the. Army. The objet
of His Majesty's Ministers was. not to improve the
state of the Army,, which never was iu a higher state