The Sun.
London, England, 1839-08-02 00:00:00

occupation of Carthagena, a part of the republic of
Central America, had furnished a precedent for that
proceeding. If this Bill were passed it would have the
effect of making war on Portugal, but not through the
Sovereit'n, as on former occasions, but through the Legis-
lature. Therefore he opposed the Bill. It authorised our
cruizess to seize any ship and examine her papers before
she was permitted to proceed on her voyage. He warned
the Government against such a course, The Govern-
ment ought to proceed on a diplomatic basis, and having
made out a case against Portugal, showing that she'liad
not fulfilled her treaties, then her Majesty's Ministers
might come down with a message from the Crown to this
House. He recommended their Lordships not to pass
the Bill.
Viscount MELBOURNE said that in bringing for-
ward this Bill they were fulfilling a pledge they had made
to the other House. The Noble Duke admitted we had
a right to call upon Portugal to fulfil those engagements
for which she had received the price and the considera-
tion. But be objected to the course proposed in this
Bill. He complained that there was not sufficient state.
ments—sufficient notes brought forward at present. But
here were notes between the Secretary for Foreign Af-
fairs and the notes of the Portuguese Ministers—the
whole correspondence between this country and Portugal
for four years was now before the House. Portugal de-
manding that this country should secure her against any
danger of losing her colonies if she should abolish slavery,
and should permit her to make certain arrangements re-
specting slaves in those countries; and further, that she
should be limited only to a certain time. But this country
had objected to all those demands, as tending
on the one side to secure Portugal at all times
in the possession of her colonies under any circum-
stances, and on the other to perpetual slavery.
What this country wanted was the perpetual abolition of
slavery. It could not be denied that Portugal had not
fulfilled those engagements for which this country had made
such large pecuniary sacrifices, to induce her to adopt.
The Noble Duke said then why not go to war with Por-
tugal ? But this Bill was intended to avoid such an alter-
native ; it would empower her Majesty to proceed as
should be found most expedient to abolish the slave-trade,
but it would not bind her to any course. It would enable
her to go as far as she could go without an irrevocable de-
claration of war. It would arm the Government with
powers so ample as to secure the cffec/they all desired.
But if their Lordships should withhold tTeir support from
her Majesty and the Government by supporting this Bill
they would give the greatest encouragement to Portugal
to continue in her obstinacy, seeing, as Portugal thn
must, that she was supported by a strong party in this
country; that party, namely, which would, if they opposed
this Bill now, desert the Government and the Crown.
He thought the objections of the Noble Duke against this
Bill were not sustained ; but he would remind them that
their Lordships would inflict a severe blow on this country,
and throw a vast obstacle in the way of the abolition of
the slave trade, however much they might desire its ex-
tinction, if they rejected the Bill.---( Hear.)
The Duke of WELLINGTON explained. He said
her Majesty's Government were bound to enforce the
treaties, if they thought Portugal had violated them.
That was a question which her Majesty's Government
should have decided upon. But if the Government came
down to this House to ask for support, they should give
the most ample diplomatic information. He still objected
to the Bill, because he thought the Government hr d not
done so, and therefore he should desert the Government,
because he thought her Majesty's Ministers were depart-
ing from the constitutional, honest, just, and fair course,
which ought to regulate our proceedings with other coue-
tries.—( Hear, hear. )
The Earl of DE VON would not yield to the Noble
Lords at the other side of the House, in sincere anxiety to
abolish the slave trade. The question was, whother the
present Bill was likely to effect that purpose? It should
have shown them that they had heard all Portugal had to
say upon her own side ; but it did not do so. He op.
posed one startling provision in the Bill—that was, that
which proposed to give our ships tl.e right of search over
foreign vessels all over the world. The Government
should have judged for itself, how it should act with Por-
tugal; and if the House should not support it, it would
not be deserting it, but the Government would have
deserted its duty to itself, and the Crown, and the country.
—( Hear, hear.) He chiefly complained that no state-
ment had been made to show why the particular power
required by the Bill, was considered necessary by the
Government. He, therefore, suspected the Bill, and
would oppose it.—( Question, question.)
Earl MINT() replied. There had been a long nego-
ciation, and the correspcndence in it was before the House.
They had had the negociation of Lord Howard dc Walden,
with the Portuguese Minister, and other diplomatic cor-
respondence, long before the House—long enough for
their Lordships to make themselves masters of all the
particulars of the case. The Noble Earl had called this
measure unconstitutional.—( Hear, hear.) But the House
of Commons was no bad judge of Constitutional measures,
and yet, echoing the feelings of the nation, the House of
Commonss had unanimously, and with acclamation,
passed this Bill, and now it remained for their Lordships
to throw the shield of their power over the faithless Go-
vernment of Portugal and the iniquitous slave traffic.—
( Cheers.) True, her Majesty might order the detention
of ships, but that would be at the risk of the Government—
(Hear, hear)—and such a proceeding might end in war.—
( Hear.) But the Government did not want to go to war.
The object of this Bill was to carry out their objects
without war, and to secure British subjects in other
countries from the penalties they must otherwise incur if
our cruisers were to stop and search the ships of nations
with which we were not at war. He could not but regret
that the House of Lords seemed to be less disposed to put
an) end to this traffic than any other body of persons.—
( Hear, hear.) The effect of the House rejecting this BiH
would produce one of two results, either to compel her
Majesty to go to war with Portugal, or to leave the slave
trade to prevail under the flag of Portugal, fostered and
encouraged by England.—(Cheers.)
Earl DEVON explained.
The LORD CHANCELLOR then put the amend-
ment, that the Bill be read a second time this day three
months.

Strangers were ordered to withdraw for a division.
When we were re-admitted we found the numbers to be,
For the amendment
Against it, and for the second reading 32
38
Bill lost by
............
UNLAWFUL OATHS (IRE. ..
.......
Upon a question by Lord WHARNCLIFFE,
Lord DUNCANNON said that as the discussion upon
the Slave Trade Bill had taken so much time he pro-
posed that the Unlawful Oaths (Ireland) Bill should now
be read a second time, and that the debate should be taken
upon it upon going into Committee.
Lord ELLENBOROUGH complained that this Bill
had been drawn with a superlative degree of carelessness.
According to the terms of it, as those terms now stocd,
there would not be a Member of their Lordships' House
who would not be guilty of an unlawful confederacy from
the hour at which the Bill passed, because all of them were
in possession of a printed copy of the password of ribbon-
men.—(Laughter.)
Upon the motion of Lord DUNCANNON the Bill
was 'cad a second time, and ordered to be committed on
Tuesday next.
Upon the motion of Lord DUNCANNON the Eccle-
siastical Preferments Bill passed through Committee, and
the Report was ordered to be brought up to-morrow.
On the motion of Lord DUNCANNON the Militia
Ballot Suspension Bill passed through a Committee,
was reported without amendments, and ordered to be read
a third time to. morrow.

On the motion of Earl SIIAFTESBURY the Letters
Patent Act Amendment Bill was read a third time and
passed.
The LORD CHANCELLOR laid on the table the
Infants (Court of Equity) Bill, which was read a first
time, and
The House adjourned at a few minutes before Nine
o' Clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, Avevsr 1.

The SPEAKER took the Chair at the usual hour.
MANCHESTER AND BIRMINGHAM RAIL-

WAY EXTENSION BILL.

Mr. MILDM AY moved that the Committee on
this Bill have leave to enlarge the time for making their
Report from day to day to the 12th of August.
Mr. EASTHOPE thought it proper to state to the
House that though this application had been made at
the instance of a majority of the Committee, yet there
were Members who thought no practical benefit could
result from its being acceded to ; that evidence had
been excluded of two competing lines of railway, which
evidence mast be heard, in their opinion, before the
inquiry could satisfactorily be terminated ; and that at
this prolonged period of the Session it was impossible
that the Bill could pass into a law. On these ground,'
he opposed the motion.

BROTHERTON considered the opposition
most extraordinary.—(Hear, hear.) The Committee
had been sitting forty-six days—an accidental circum-
stance had produced the delay in making their Report._.
a majority of three to one had decided on this applica-
tion; and now it was attempted to prevent them from
reporting.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. MILDMAY said the delay had partly been the
result of his own oversight, and he should deeply regret
this motion not being carried.
Mr.
wouldG I Sn Bo
tOR supportN E wtahe li
was
Membert e Bi
forin Leicester principle,
but
in this opposition.—( Hear, hear.)
Bill

The motion was ilgreed to.
Mr. EASTHOPE then presented a petition from
the Midland Counties Railway Company against the
Bill.

HALIFAX SMALL DEBTS BILL.
On the motion of Mr. C. WOOD this Bill was read
a third time and passed.
PENNY POST.

Mr. MART presented a petition from the Con-
gregational Union, in favour of a penny postage.
Mr. HODGES presented several petitions from dif-
ferent places in the counties ofKent and Sussex, com-
plaining of the Tithe Commutation Act.

COLLECTION OF RATES BILL.
Mr. EW ART gave notice that in the Committee on
the Collection of Rates Bill, he should move the omis-
sion of the second clause, and if he did not succeed in
his motion on the third reading lie should move the re-
jection of the Bill.