The Sun.
London, England, 1830-04-03 00:00:00

1821 FREIGHTS, to 1824.
Memel £l 3 3
Petersburgh ... 4 1 10
America... ..... 2 4 9

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'tiro quarters. The one by the extension of foreign
:'• int& in every direCtion in which it could by possibility be
extended; the other by the removal of every burden upon
• 'them-which it was possible to remove. With respect to
• tho first point, he looked with considerable hope to the
'alterations which he trusted would be consequent on the
•renewal of the East India Company's Charter. He should
be grievously disappointed, and so he was persuaded would
the petitioners too, if, on the renewal of the Charter, Bri-
tish ships and seamen were any longer prevented from
going to any part of India or China to which the ships
' and seamen of every other country might go. Not only
would such a change be highly advantageous to the general
commercial interests of the country, but would remove a
restriction which must be galling to British seamen,
who saw the natives of other countries enjoying a free
trade to India and -China from which they were
excluded. He hoped, therefore, to see our foreign
trade extended by the alteration which he had de-
scribed ; and he also hoped that it would be extended
in other ways, and especially by the cultivation of a
closer commercial intercourse with the States of South
America. With respect to the other quarter from which
the petitioners might expect relief, he thought there were
many burdens upon them which might either be taken off
or diminished. One was the large expenditure to which
they were subjected by light-house dues.--( Hear, hear.)
The proprietors of some of the light-houses received re-
venues so enormous from these dues ; so much so as tc
excite general indignation among those who were interested
in the subject, and to demand some investigation.—(Hear,
hear.) Another great expence to which they were sub-
jected arose from the rules about pilotage. Another
source of expence was the Greenwich chest, to which every
seaman of a merchant vessel paid sixpence a month out of
his wages, although our mercantile navy derived no benefit
whatever from that establishment. A far more important
, subject of consideration, however, was the reduction of
some of the duties which pressed so heavily on the peti-
tioners. Why was the hemp duty kept up to so enormous
a height ? By a reduction of that duty a great reduction
would of course take place in the cost of cordage, sails,
and other articles of marine equipment. Then there was
another duty, the abolition of which had been so pro-
perly recommended by the Hon. Member for the City of
London—he meant the stamps on Marine Insurances.—
Another measure which was very advisable was an equz.-
lization of the duties on timber and on deals. Why tim-
ber in the solid block should be subject to a larger duty
than when the same timber was cut np into deals, he
knew not, but such was the fact ; and he should be glad
to hear a reason aesigned for it by any Hon. Member con-
nected with the Revenue Department. There was ano-
ther subject also, on which he himself entertained great
doubts, but which the shipowners were very desirous to
press. Be alluded to a relaxation in the bonding system.
He trusted that an opportunity would be taken during the
present Session to take these subjects into consideration,
and that measures would be adopted, some immediate,
some gradual in their effects, some more, some less exten-
sive, for the relief of the deeply-suffering shipping in-
terest. That their distress was great no one had at-
tempted to deny, no one could attempt to deny, In his
conscience he believed that that distress was increasing,
that it was worse this year than the last ; and that unless
some remedy were speedily applied, it would be destroyed
altogether. In proof of this statement, he would take the
liberty of reading to the House an extract of a letter
which he had received from a very respectable corre-
spondent at Hull, respecting the state of the shipping in-
terest there. If the particulars which his correspondent
stated were erroneous, there were, no doubt, Hon. Mem-
beri present who would expose them. To show that the
rater of freight had greatly decreased, while the expense
of provisions and wages had greatly increased during the
last nine years, his correspondent had drawn up the fol-
lowing table of the average rate of freights, provisions,
and wages, from 1821 to 1824, and front 1826 to 1829,
all inclusive :

1826 to 1829.9 7
Memel 1 0 1
Petersburgh
America 1 15 9
---- Difference.
6 6 7—Xl 3 o=ls '7 7per cent. diminish.
PROVISIONS AND WAGES.
1821 to 1824.
4 19 4
Pork
Bread
Wages . .

12
1828 to 1829.0 10
Beet... ........... 5 15 3
Pork .......... 4 110
Bread ...... .... 0 18 10
Wages.... .... ....
Differenee.
13 15 11—£1 15 I=l4 11 4 per cent. Increase.

29 18 11 pr cent. against the
ship-owners.
Was it surprising, that persons, who thus saw their pro-
perty slipping, through their
hands, should be. earnest with
the L e g is latu re to inquire into the practicability of adopt-
ing some means of averting the ruin with which they were
threatened ? When they saw bow greatly the shipping
interest had been depreciated within a few years, would
not the House think that it was a case which imposed
upon them the necessity of turning their minds to the se-
rious consideration of the subject? The petitioners stated
that their property was rapidly slipping out of their bands,
that they were reduced almost to beggary, and that with-
out some relief their situation was hopeless. Under these
circumstances, he felt justified in imploring the House to
listen to the prayer of the petition; and to turn their minds
to the best means of remedying the evils which were en-
dured by an interest so intimately connected with the
strength, prosperity, and glory of the country.
On the motion that the petition be brought up,
A 3l.Estarta, whose name we could not learn, observed
that, from his own knowledge he could say that the state-
ments of the petition were perfectly well founded.
Mr. ROBINSON having been requested by the ship-
owners to support the petition did so with great plea-
sure. When the subject was brought before the House in
the Session before the last, it was said that the shipping
interest was recovering. So far, however, was that from
being the case, that the depression of that interest had
been continually going on. He was the more induced to
address the House on the present occasion, because last year
the Hon. Member for Liverpool had stated that he did not
believe that the shipping interest was so depressed as it was
represented to be, because they went on building ships at
an increased rate. He (Mr. Robinson) thought at the
time that the Hon. Gentleman's assertion was incorrect;
and on a reference to the financial statements of 1827,
1828, and 1829, he found that a most alarming falling off
had taken place in the number of ships built. He
had that
he fo day seen a further financial statement, and
und that the building of ships had continued
to :fall off since last year to a degree which, con-
sidering the great importance of the shipping inte-
rest to the country, loudly demanded investigation
11e
found in the financial statement to which he had al-
luded, that in the year/ending the sth of January, 1827,
there were built 1,719 ships, having an admeasurement of
207,088 tons; that in the year ending the sth of January,
1828, there were built 1,440 ships, having an admeasure-
' Went of 163,946 tons ; that in the year ending the sth
of January, 1829, there were built only 1,185 ships, hav-
ing an admeasurement of 128,752 tons ; and that in the
'Nit' ending the sth of January, 1830, there were built
941 Y 1,075 ships, having an admeasurement of 110,681
tons- By this statement it appeared, therefore, that in
the course of three pars there had been a diminution of
. nearly a half in the amount of tonnage of ships built.
This diminution showed the state of the shipping interest.
It was a much better .criterion than the mere employment
of shiPa- Every one acquainted with the subject was
aware that, while ships existed, unless employed they
must be abandoned altogether as property. The Hon.
Member for Hutt had said that he differed from the peti-
tioners on what was called the reciprocity system. He
(Mr. Robinson) did not attribute all the evils which the
'petitioners were suffering to that system, but he contended
that the reciprocity system had greatly increased their dif-
ficulties and distress ; for how was it possible that ships
of
built and navigated at an expellee a third greater than that
Polfor.eign hipping, and subject to additional charges for
k-i" of insurance and other matters, could compete
-witthat
tforeign shipping ? He had examined the official
returns of shipping which had entered inwards, and
- cleared
United outwardsKinsi' • in 1829, in the various ports of the
King 'il, from Sweden, Norway, Denmark, and
Russia andd of the British shippin
which bad entered in-
- wards, cleared outwards, in g the same •
urns it period. From
those ret •
appeared that 1,946 forei(rn vessels, and
Only 1,164 British vessels, had entered inCards; that the
Only 1,16.1
of-the former was 293,402 tons, and of the latter
187,852
by, 14,570"8; and that the former were navigated
appeared thrnitetn,,
lsad the latter by 8,55 t. It also
267,579 tons, aal:ivh, measuring
foreign vessels,
cleared outwards ; iin2avigated by 13,425 men, had
turilig 139,462 tans, ande only 1,023 British vessels, mea-
, cleared outwards. - These
at 11" proved, that with respect
least, the reciprocity system had
occalioned a competition
interest.- -Ha certainly injurious to our shipping.
"la not go into the principle of

the reciprocity system in general, nor into the Reciprocity
Treaty with Austria, which was laid on the table of the

House by the Right Hon. Gentleman only last night; but
he must be allowed to say, that he thought it strange that
this country should throw open all her ports to Austria--
a nation which had but three ports to open to us in re-
turn, and these three, Fiume, Trieste, and Venice, were
free ports to all the world already. The declension in ship-
building was general throughout the country ; and this was
not a time to be granting concessions to foreign States.
It was stated in a petition on the table of the House,
that in the port of Whitby alone, where there had been
eight ship-building yards, besides slips, which employed
one thousand men, there had been three of the docks given
up, two were about to be abandoned ; and that, in a short
period, unless something were done, the whole of the
docks would be abandoned. Not only was the shipping
interest depressed, but every branch of the national wealth
was passing away, and the general distress was increasing.
The ship-building employed a very great number and va-
riety of manufacturers, not only in the direct and imme-
diate construction of the vessels, but in making those
things which were used in relation to the equipment of
vessels; and it occasioned the circulation of vast sums
throughout the country. The subject was in every respect
well worthy of the attention of Ministers, and of every
gentleman in that House; nor would Government be
doing their duty to the country, if they neglected to esta-
blish the most thorough investigation into the case. He
had often heard it asked, upon this and upon similar
cases brought forward in that House, what good
could inquiry do? He would answer the question by
asking another. What harm could inquiry do ? If the
Parties were not relieved, they might be convinced by in-
quiry that their sufferings had been attended to, and that
the evils were irremediable. If the other party were con-
fident that inquiry would bear their opinions out, they
would be ready to grant it; and their resisting all inquiry
into the case would admit of but one inference. He did
hope and trust that Government would look into the case;
and he hoped also that the reciprocity system would not be
followed by other treaties, upon the reciprocity principle,
until the effect of those already entered into, and which
would soon expire, were known. It was very remarkable,
with respect to foreign nations, that thos&alone were dis-
posed to go with us into reciprocity treaties that had all to
gain by them, and nothing to lose. Austria opened to us
her three solitary ports, whilst Great Britain, in return,
opened the numerous sea ports of her kingdom to the sub-
jects of that power. _ _ .

Mr. DUNCOMB was unwilling to let this opportunity
pass without expressing hie very sincere and earnest hope
that the Right Hon. Gentleman the President of the Board
of Trade would forthwith institute a minute investigation
into the state of the different interests of the country. The
distress was not, as had been represented, merely partial;
but it was urgent, real, and almost overwhelming. To
his knowledge, several ship building establishments were
completely abandoned, and others were about to share the
same fate. The petitions which he had the honour to
present to the Mouse had come from persons very well ac-
quainted with the subject iu all its bearings, and they had
attributed the distress of the ship building interests to the
navigation laws.

Mr. Alderman WAITHMAN supported the petition,
and expressed his concurrence with what had fallen from
the Hon. Member who had presented it.
Mr. HUME could not let the subject come to a con-
clusion without expressing the hope he had entertained
that the Right Hon. Gent, opposite (the Master of the
Mint and President of the Board of Trade) would have
taken some notice of the petition, in order to let the
country know if relief could or could not be afforded to
this:branch of industry. Those points which the Hon.
Member for Hull had stated to the House, he (Mr. Hume)
was convinced it was in the power of Ministers to relieve.
For instance, it was in the power of Ministers to take off
from the shipping interests the heavy and enormous duties
on light-houses. By these duties 20,000/. a year were
paid into the office of Woods and Forests, not to be used
for the public service, but to become the perquisites of a
few Lords and favoured individuals.—(Hear, hear.)—
Nor did he see why the distressed shipping interests
should be taxed to pay anything to such a class of persons.
Next, he should say that Government ought to take off
several duties npon articles which were especially used by
ship builders in their trade.—(Hear, hear.)—What Go-
vernment ought to do, and could do, was obvious to every-
body. He could not agree with the Hon. Member for
Worcester in attributing any part of the distress felt by any
one branch of the shipping interests to the reciprocity
system in general, or to any reciprocity treaty in particu-
lar; for it was his firm opinion that but for the reciprocity
system, things would have been very much worse.—(Hear,
hear. )_The Hon. Member for Worcester had declared
that the shipping interest was in a low state; now he
begged to ask him if he could name any one
interest in the country that was not in a low state?
There was nothing to warrant the Hon. Member in saying
that the predictions made respecting the reciprocitysystem,
as far as it had been carried, had failed ; and all he had
done was to shot, that this particular branch of industry
was distressed, and he (Mr. Hume) would add that all
other branches were distressed also. If more ships existed
in the country than were wanted, they must find employ-
ment elsewhere, or be reduced in number;; and they would
then find a better profit. Let the Government increase the
trade of the country by taking off some of the unneces►ary
duties and impolitic restrictions, and the shipping interests
would no longer have cecasion to come before that House
with petition after petition complaining of distress. The
tax levied upon merchant ships towards defraying the ex-
pences of Greenwich Hospital was unjust in principle,
and objectionable in its application. It never was in-
tended to be levied as it is, and it ought long ago to have
been removed.

Mr. LIERRIES thought that House would have
been more surprised if he had entered into a discussion like
the present. containing such various topics, and embracing
so wide a field, on the presentation of a petition, than it
now was on hearing the Hon. Member for Aberdeen
taunting him for his silence. Had it not been for the ap-
peal made to him by the Hon. Member for Montrose, he
should not have risen for one moment to address the
Hoese on the present occasion. It was to vindicate him-
self from the possible imputation of any want of disrespect
for the Hon. Member for Hull, who had presented this
petition, or to the important subject to which that Hon.
Member bad called the attention of the House in the
course of his speech, but on which he had not founded, or
expressed his inteotion to found, any motion, that he now
trespassed for a few moments on its consideration. He
could not consent to enter, upon the present occasion, into
any discussion of that great question which the Hon. Mem-
ber for Worcester had brought under the notice of the
House ; for, if he touched upon that topic, what topic,
already introduced into the debate, was there, which he
could properly fail to notice ? The first topic on which
he would be called to enter would be that of free trade;
and he used the word free trade, because it was the deno-
mination by which a system of commercial policy recently
adopted wee generally entitled in that House. The Hon.
Member who presented the petition seemed to take the
same view of the question of free trade which he himself
was disposed to take.---(" Hear," from Mr. Sykes.)—He
might, therefore, leave that Hon. Member to give his opi-
nion before him upon that subject, and to refute the ob-
servations of the Hon. Member for Worcester. The same
answer would apply to all that had been said on the pre-
sent occasion respecting the bonding system. Plausible as
the arguments against it might appear on the first view
it became quite preposterous, after considering the
subject maturely, to think of getting rid of it
altogether. lie had had several interviews on the
subject with some of the most leading Members
of the interests to which the Honourable Member pro-
fessed to belong ; and the scheme of getting rid of the
bonding system was no sooner mentioned in argument
than it was immediately abandoned. The• Hon. Member
for-Hull seemed to agree with him also upon this topic—
so that there was no occasion for him to pursue it further.
Then there was the reciprocity system ! Was the present
an occasion on which he ought to address the llouse for
the purpose of showing that the consequences attributed
to that system had not emanated from it? That system
was no system of his. He could not, therefore, be sup-
posed to have any unfair predilection for it. It had been
introduced by others, and though he had fully concurred
in the views of those who adopted it, it by no means
followed that he was prepared to defend it at all hazards.
Still, though he would not enter into the discussions at
present, he was prepared at the proper time to show that
the Hon. Member was completely mistaken in the view
which he had taken respecting it. The very fact that the
average amount of British tonnage entered inwards and
outwards for the last four years greatly exceeded the aver-
age amount of British tonnage so entered for the last four
years before the alteration of our system, was a proof that
the alteration had not been productive of mischief to the
sbpiping interest.—(Hear, hear.)—There had been an in-
crease of 242,852 tons entered inwards in the latter pe-
riod.—(Hear.)—There had likewise been a proportional
increase in the number of ships, of tonnage, and of men
cleared outwards within the same time.—(Hear, hear.)—
He admitted that in foreign shipping there had been a
small increase ; but upon the whole the great increase
of employment bad undoubtedly been in favour of
British shipping.—(Hear, hear.)—This was a fact
which was not known to him alone—it came within the
knowledge of every nun who gen himself the trouble of