The Sun.
London, England, 1839-05-02 00:00:00

upon a matter of law (feeling it might be that
the weaker must go to the wall) whereupon
they entertained the most conflicting opinion. For
this reason he had no apprehension is hwever that the
Presb} tery, when the Judgment of their Lordships' House
was given, declaring them to be wrong and the pao on's
light to be violated. would hesitate, even upon the declara-
tory part of the Judgment, to do that which was right.
Then it was said that the congregation might dissent, but
he would have no hesitation in making an order on the
Presbytery to induct A.B. upon the presentation of the
patron in disregard of the congregation. He would
refer in support of that only to the case of Lord Dundaa
and the Shetland parishioners. There the Presbytery admitted
a gentleman of the name of Gray. A Mr. Nicholson was
the competing man with Gray. The Court of Session
said—Refuse Gray and admit Nicholson. Why was it not
said then on behalf of the Presbytery that the Court of
Session had no such power, and that the Presbytery might
continue to put in Gray, and then where would the Court
be? If that had been said on that occasion there
would have arisen every one of the arguments which
had been made use of on the present occasion, to
scare their Lordships from doing their duty—namely,
could they proceed against a whole body of
clergymen—the Presbytery of Scotland—could they
bring actions against every, one of :these iudividuals;?
That was the argument by which their Lordships bad
been threatened at their bar, if they proceeded to confirm
the judgment of the Court below. Upon the whole, he
held this argument to be utterly and absolutely untenable,
and such as presented no one impediment to their Lord.
ships taking the right path. These were the grounds
upon which he held that it was expedient and just, and
therefore necessary, for their Lordships to affirm the
judgment of the Court below. He had gone at much
greater length in point of time into the case than
perhaps bad been desirable, but when he looked to
the importance of the question he did not regret
the course he had pursued. My Lords (continued
the Noble and Learned Lord), no person would regret
more deeply than I should if the judgment I am now
pronouncing should give offence to that most Venerable
Assembly as representing the Church of Scotland. I
have the deepest reason for feeling the highest venera-
tion for that Assembly. I have every reason for it. I
am myself sprung from some of the most venerable and
learned of that Body, and 11 cannot therefore be deaf
to its interests—deaf to its claims amounting to the
highest veneration—or in the slightest degree pre-
pared to treat it other than with the most profound
respect. lam not the only person engaged in this discus-
sion connected with that Church, and entertaining the
feelings I cherish. The Learned Attorney-General has
himself descended from a most venerable part of that
body, and nothing is more clear from the whole of his argu-
ments than that he is most scrupulously and delicately
averse to any thing that can betoken the slighest want
of respect for the Assembly. I say this the rather because
I have been rather astonished from some correspondence I
have had from Scotland, to find that something be was
supposed to have said—because I was a witness
of all he said—was put down most grossly
erroneous. Nothing could be more respectful and
correct to that body than the whole of the Learned At-
torney-General's arguments. 1 shall join with him, as I
am sure he will join with me, in the deepest sorrow, if it
shall be considered that any thing he has said in his argu-
ments, or that anything I am now saying, is to have the
effect of perpetuating those conflicts which have been going
on, which must have been a matter of great affliction
to many, and which, if continued, must be much
more so. But, my Lords, any want of respect
I could show to that Assembly—Any irreverence, any
mockery, any slander, any attempt to revile them or to
bold them up to any thing that was disrespectful and
irreverent, would be a mere joke compared to the attempts
made by some who take the opposite view of this case to
what I do, and who, God knows, without meaning any
more than I do any thing disrespectful to that
body, think they are taking the wisest course
to establish their principles by holding out indi-
cations that the Assembly will pursue its own course—
that the:Assembly will disregard;the authority of the Law—
that that Assembly of Christian ministers will be parties to
the fomenting of discords—that the last thing they will
think of, will be the peace of the Church committed to
their care, and that the only thing they will think of, will
be the victory of the Churchman over the supreme Judges
of the land—over the Judges, and over the Law itself, by
setting up acts of their own which they have no title to pass'
against Acts of Kirg, Lords, and Commons—the statute law
of the country. My Lords, %defend the Assembly against
the arguments of their advocates. I protest on the part of
the Assembly as a body of Christian men, of whom the
bulk are Christian Ministers, against the imputations
thrown out upon them by the course of defending them
that has been adopted in this House: and I say that my
hopes of them, my confident expectations of what; will be
their conduct, are wholly the reverse of those that have
been expressed at the bar—that it was an injudicious line of
argument to take on their behalf, and an act which I am
morally certain would be rejected and spurned by the
Assembly itself. My Lords the Assembly will do its
duty—the Assembly will show its veneration for the esta-
blished authority of the law—the Assembly will rest satis-
fied with having entered its protest, and indicated upon its
own records its own opinions, but will, with its inferior
judicature, the Presbytery, render is willing, a respectful
obedience to the law of the lund, as pronounced
by the Court of Session, and as confirmed by your Lord-
ship's House. With this view the Noble and Learned
Lord moved the confirmation of the order of tie Court
below, and then sat down, having spoken as nearly as pos-
-1 Bible three hours.
The Lor) CHANCELLOR said that he should state what
he had to say on the question to-morrow morning.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

(THIS EVENING.)

HOUSE OF LORDS.

The LORD CHANCELLER took hii scat on th:3
woolsack at five o'clock.

Messengers from the House of Commons brought up
several Bills to which the co►icurrence of their Lordships
wss desired.

The Duke of CLEVELAND presented petitions from
Durham in favour of a system of penny-postage.
Petitions to the same effcctwere presented by Lord Bather-
ton, from Hereford and Norfolk ; by Earl Fitz william,
from Hythe, and a Parish in Yorkshire ; by Lord Auck-
land, from Melton Regis; and by Lord Brougham, from
Birmingham, Liverpool, Gutter-lane, Chcapside, Car-
rington, Chesterfield, Mile -end Mechanics Institute,
Linlithgow, Sandwich, Parishes in Nottingham, Ilford,
in Essex, Bromley, in Essex, Bradford, Gloucester, Hud-
dersfield, Norwich Mechanics Institute, West Riding of
Yorkshire, from Newinston, in Surrey, Ottenden, in
Devon, and se eral other places.
AFRICAN SLAVE TRADE.

THE SUN, LONDON, THURSDAY, MAY 2, 1839.

slavery. He agreed on this subject very greatly with Mr.
Buxton. He thought a very good encouragement might
be given to the abolition of the trade by admitting
first into the Colonies and next into this country
all sugars made by free labourers, and excluding alt
that was made by slaves. There had been no English
Slave Trade since his MI of 1811, making it a felony,
and it 'was more than 20 years efier that, before their
Lordships abolished Slavery in the Colonies. He would
just say, that be by no means agreed in the doc-
trine that it was not right to send armed cruizers,
to take into custody Pirates, and persons who
were carrying on this horrible crime ( Hear. )
Having stated on a former occasion his great admiration
of the conduct of the Assembly of Antigua in abolishing
slavery before they were even compelled, it was now his
painful duty to say that he found the present
House of Assembly had taken a great deal away
from the credit of their predecessors, who had acted so
admirably, and whose conduct he had had occasion
so much to approve of. They had done all in
their power to take away from the negro his political
rights. They had raised the qualification from '2O/. cur-
rency to 501., the effect of which was to disfranchise every
negro in the island of Antigua. This tended in no way
to give confidence in Colonial Legislation. In his opi-
nion, steps ought to be taken to repeal the law, and
if the Legislature of that country refused to repeal that
law, their Lordships ought to interfere, and repeal it for
them. The Noble and Learned Lord concluded by mov-
ing for the production of the Act of Antigua in reference
to raising the qualification, as he had no information at
present upon the subject.
The Marquis of NORM ANBY thought it would be
better that the Noble Lord should give notice of that mo-
tion, as then he should be enabled to state what course he
would pursue.
Lord BROUGHAM said teat he would give notice of
that motion. The Noble and Learned Lord then pre-
sented a Petition from the Jamaica Merchants in Lon-
don against the Bill introduced into the House of Commons
for suspending the Constitution of that country. Thereason
why by had been entrusted with this petition, was in con-
sequence of the course he had adopted on the subject of
Canada. He was not acquainted with the merits of the
case of the petitioner, but be must confess that the conduct
of the Assembly of Jamaica with respect to the present bill,
was anything but creditable ro themselves. But it was
another question, whether the course they had pursued ren-
dered it necessary that their constitution should be abo-
lished for any length of time.
Lord St. VINCENT supported the prayer of the peti-
tion. He considered the measure one of the hardest and
most uncal:ed fur that had ever been brought forward.
Lord NORM ANBY said that when the Bill came
under discussion, he should be prepared to meet the Noble
Lord, and the House would then see whether the Noble
and Learned Lord would differ from those with whom he
had hitherto acted.
Lord BROUGHAM said the Bill was brought forward
because it was said to be favourable to the Negroes ; on
the other hand, if he found that it was intended as a Bill
of Pains and Penalties—and it was not denied that it had
that tendency—he should certainly eppose the measure.
The Marquis of NORM ANBY would be perfectly
ready to meet the Noble and Learned Lord on that
point. It was stated that the Bill would have
the effect of postponing the enjoyment of the
elective franchise, but when the Bill came before the House
he would be in a cosidition to proceed; that it would not
defer these rights one moment longer than the time they
were able to enjoy them.
Lord BROUGHAM said, if the Bill was so good a
thing for the Negroes, why not extend it to Barbadoes
and the other Colonies ?
The Marquis of NORNIANBY said the necessity was
obvious. The other Colonies had not refused to legis-
ate.

Lord BROUGHANI—Then the Bill is a matter of
punishment, and not of bounty and favour—( Cheers and
laughter)—and he had opposed it, as he had done the
Canada Bill, because it Was a penal Act. It was sent,
from the Noble Marquis's confession, for the mischief of
the whites, and not for the advantage of the negroes.
The Marquis of NORMANBY had admitted that it
had that tendency, and that he would be ready to meet
the Noble and Learned Lord on that ground also.
The Duke of RICHMOND presented a petition in
favour of the Caledonian Canal.
The Earl of ROSEBERRY and the Earl of ZET-
L AND presented petitions in favour of a penny postage.
The Marquis of BUTE presented a petition in favour
of Church Endowments in Scotland.
Lord DUNCANNON brought up the Report of the
Committee on Irish Education.
The Designs Copyright Bill and the Designs Copyright
Extension Bill went through Committee.
Their Lordships then adjourned.

placed under the superintendence of the Clergy of the Es-
tablished Church.

PENNY POSTAGE.

Mr. HO DGSON Presentd a petition from Hertford,
praying for the establishment of a Penny Postage on the
plan of Mr. Rowland Hill.
Mr. HUME presented petitions to the same effect from
Kilkenny, the Town Council of St Ives, Fowey, Dundee,
the Mayor and Inhabitants of Huntingdon, Bardwell,
Burnham, six parishes in London, and several other

places.
Sir R. FERGUSON presented petitions to the same
effect from three parishes in Nottingham.
Mr. HOPE presented a similar petition from
Weymouth.
Mr. PEASE presented a similar petition from Hudders-
field ; and petitions with a similar prayer were presented
by Mr. Fitzsimon, Mr. Hughes, Mr. 0. Gore, and Mr.
Round.
Mr. COLQUH OUN presented a petition from Green-
wich, complaining of the manner in which certain signa-
tures had been obtained to a petition presented from that
town. _ .

MALTA.
Mr. HUME presented a petition from Malta, praying
the House not to adopt any measures to deprive the people
of that country of the benefit they cherish under the Press.
The Hon. Member moved that the petition be printed, and
gave notice of his intention to call the atte7tion of the
House to the subject of the petition on the 19th.
THE BANK OF ENGLAND.
Mr. HUN! E postponed his notice relative to the Bank
of England, to the 16th.
NORTH OF ENGLAND RAILWAY.
Mr. PEASE moved the further consideration of the
Report on the Great North of England Railway Bill.
Mr. BOWES moved a clause compelling (so far as
we eould understand), the Company to complete the
work within a given period.
Mr. PEASE said he was glad that it was not pre-
tended that the Company had conducted themselvesunfairly.
But a similar clause had been proposed in the Committee,
and disapproved of. The Company had laboured with
great perseverance to effect an important public work • and
he hoped the House would not fetter them by this Clause.
Mr. LA M BTON said he thought the clause would
tend to cast discredit upon the Company : and he hoped
the House would not agree to it, for if it was a :proper
Clause it should have been introduced before. —( Hear.)
Mr. HUME thought there ought to be some general
rule applicable to all railroads.
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, but the clause
was negatived without a division.
LONDON AND SOUTHAMPTON RAILWAY.
The Report of the Committee on this Bill was taken
into consideration, and ordered to be engrossed.
The London and Greenwich Railway Bill, and the
Wishaw and Coltness Railway Bill, went through the same
stage.
CLAIMS OF BRITISH SUBJECTSION FRANCE.
Dr. LUS HIN GTON, in moving an address for copies
of all correspondence between her Majesty's Government
and France, relative to the claims of British subjects for re-
dress on account of injuries inflicted on British trade on the
western coast of Africa, since the year 1834, said that nearly
5 years had now elapsed since this attack had been made on
British property, and no redress had been obtained ; and
if this injustice, to which be alluded, were really and
truly injuries which ought to be redressed, the time had
now arrived, when there must be ample opportunity
for the most perfect inquiry.
(LEFT SPEAYIN4I.)

TATTERSALL'S-THIS EVENING

5 to I agst Mr. G. Clark's Dragoman—taken
8 to 1 agst Lord Jersey's Cse-sar—taken
9 to 1 agst Corsair—taken
10 to 1 agst Euclid—taken
9 to 1 agst Col. Peel's The Dey of .Igiers
20 to 1 ant Bulwark
25 to 1 agst Marquis of Westminster's Sleight of Hand
40 to 1 agst Lcrd Albemarle's Dostincr--taken
35 to 1 agst Westonian
35 to 1 agst Mr. Dixon's Camellino—taken
25 to 1 west Sir G. Heathcote's Palincoart—taken
25 to 1 agst Ilderum—taken
25 to 1 agst tr.ther—takev
1,000 lo 10 agst Dart—taken
50 to 1 aget Marquis of Westminster's Lord Mayor—taken
25 to 1 agst Mr. Bowes's Erin-go-13ragh--taken
18 to 1 agst Fulwar Craven's Deception (taken)
1000 to 10 agst Peon—taken
1000 to 10 agst Bosphorus—taken
1000 to 10 agst Taunton—taken
40 to 1 agst Melburn-50 to 1 to
50 to 1 agst King of Kelton—taken
1000 to 15 agst Wapiti—taken
25 to-1 agst Mr. Watt's Clara
25 to 1 agst Charlotte West

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, Mar 1.

The SPEAKER took the Chair shortly before four
o'Clock.
STONE AND RUGBY RAILWAY.

On the motion of Mr. B. WILBRAHAM, the
Stone and Rugby Railway Bill was read a first time,
and ordered to be read a second time to-morrow.
COPYRIGHT BILL.

Mr. WAKLEY opposed the Bill, as fraught with
injury to the public, and he thought the Hon. Member
for 13rid port was right to make all the objections ho
could to it. _ _

Colonel SIBTHORP said, if he mistook not, there
was that evening a dinner and a piece of plate to be
given to the lion. Member for Kilkenny, and he be-
lieved the Hon. Gentlemen opposite (Messrs. Wakley
and Warburton) were engaged to attend that dinner,
and they were anxious to get away as soon as possible,
lest the soup and fish should be cold before they got to
the Crown and Anchor, or perhaps they were fearful
that all the courses might be eaten up.—(Laughter.)
'['hey ought not, however, on this account, to interrupt
the business of the House.
Lord DUNGANNON remarked that the Hon.
Gentlemen opposite were exciting a sympathy for the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman by their manner of op•
posing his measure.
After a few observations from Mr. Warburton, tho
Chancellor of the Exchequer, and the Solicitor-General,
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the
House divided, when there appeared—

For the motion.. 9
Against it
Majority against the motion B2
Strangers were again ordered to withdraw en the
question that the Chairman report' progress.
On a division the numbers were—
For the motion 9
Against it
Majority against the motion 6B
Another division substantially on the same question
instantly took place. The numbers were—
For the motion 7
Against it
Majority against it
Mr. EASTHOPE, when we returned to the gallery
was, amidst loud cries of " Oh, oh," declaring his reso-
lution to persist in the same course.
Lord DUNGANNON characterized that course as
pally and pitiful—( Loud cheers)—seeing that the House
was more than ordinarily full.
Mr. PRIME objected to the Bill, but be would
only meet it by fair means—(Cheers)—and he did not
consider it fair or right to meet any Bill by such a course
as was being now adopted.—( Loud cheers.)
Mr. WAR BURTON moved that the Chairman
leave the Chair.

The House then divided, and the numbers were—
For the motion
Against it
Major'ty against it
Another division then took place, when the numbers
were—

For the Motion

Against it 8
Majority . b 6

_
Another Di..i4on took place, the numbers were—
For the Motion 6l
Against it 8
Majority

On our re-admission, we found

Mr. WARBURTON defending his conduct. A
Bill of so much importance ought not to be proceeded
in on a Wednesday, until that day was made a regular
day of business. He would not oppose the discussion
upon any other night, so that his conduct was neither
unfair nor factious. He therefore moved that the
Chairman report progress, and ask leave to sit again.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
wished the whole matter to go fairly before the
public, as many of the most strenous oppo-
sers of the Bill had voted in the divisions
against the Hon. Member for Bridport, whose conduct
he could not imitate, however much he might be op-
posed to any Bill. Look at the precedent which they
were setting—it was in fact a question of privilege, and
would lead to a question of the power which a Member
had so to delay all the business of the House.

Mr. WARBURTON would persevere in the course
he had begun, and was not afraid of its going before
the public. lie wished them to know of it, as, when
their attention was called to it, such important Bills
would not be pressed on upon a day when Members
made en4agements to dinner or otherwise—nor upon a
day when few Members attended to their duty.

After a few words from Mr. PRYME,
Lord DUNGANNON said the Hon. Member for
Bridport seemed determined to persevere in the
most unjustifiable course he had commenced—(Hear,
heal)—and it then became a question with the
Learned Sergeant whether be had patience to go on.
If he lost the present opportunity of getting the Bill
through Committee, he hoped the Government would
afford him some early day. He said that the Hon.
Member for Bridport was pursuing a most unjustifiable
and unprecedented course.
Mr. Sergeant TALFOU RD said most certainly he
would not succumb---(Cheers)—so long as the House
supported him. He felt quite sure that if he lost the
opportunity of proceeding with his Bill, he would not
have another, and he would consider himself a traitor
to the Bill, if he were to desert it while he had the
support of a single Member of the House.
Mr. HOBHOUSE said the Learned Sergeant had
better have considered the other suggestion of the
Noble Lord, and have asked the Government to allow
him another day. It appeared that the question was
not considered important enough to bring down either