The Sun.
London, England, 1863-10-26 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, MONDAY EVENING, OCTOBER 26, 1863,

stead of 400 acres of dock space in the Mersey we had only
40 acres, and that we had to do the greater portion of our
business on the Mersey; supposing we had to take cargoes
out of ships into flats, take them ashore, take goods on board
again from the shore and carry them on board the ships in
flats, and that every single piece of work on board the ship
in the river would have to be done by workmen going from
the shore, doing the work in the river, and coming back
again on shore ; why, need I tell any commercial man who
knows anything of the trade of Liverpool that with such a
system as this,Liverpool would never have gone on at all ?
Bristol, or London, or some other port wouldinevitably
have taken the trade, because the working of ships here
would have been so dreadfully expensive and ruinous that
the port would have been shut up as a port and its trade de-
stroyed entirely. Now, just look for a moment at the posi-
tion of the royal dockyards. The ships there cannot fit out
in the docks, but they fit out in the harbour as far as they
can. They go to Spithead, and their stores are taken off to
them. A carpenter is sent off. If it is blowing hard he does
not get there at all. If he does not get there he loses half a
day ; and that is just how the money is spent in the dock-
yards, (Hear.) I say this to the Government and the House
of Commons, " We want two or three millions to make per-
fect accommodation, and if you give us this money now we
will save that expenditure in two or three years," That is
what they should do. They oughtto have done it before; but
they took a contrary step, and in ten years they have spent
a million and a half on mere peddling, stupid alterations,
without deriving any benefit from them. The first thing is,
they increase the length of a dock by ten feet. Then they
widen it two or three feet, and next they deepen it a foot
or 18 inches. This is another way in which the money
is wasted. Is there any commercial man who has
ever hadanad slhoiapd,inanthdisreriveri and has
river,hash who doesadto dis-
charge,
not know that if he had had proper means for discharging
his cargo, refitting his ship, and loading his outward cargo
in dock, he would not have beaten another man who was
compelled to do all these things in the stream ? The man
who can do all this in dock would beat the man who had to
do it in the river in a very short time. (Hear, hear, land
applause.) Possibly, it may be considered that the country
is too great to look into these matters and the expenditure
of money ; but I say that the true manner in which to
manage public business is to manage it as a man manages
his own private affairs; and until the Government in this
country is forced to do something of that kind they may
talk about what they will do, but they will never be able to
reduce the expenditure which is going on. (Hear, hear, and
loud applause.) I do not know that I ought to occupy your
time any longer, but various statements have been made
about a vessel that has attained to some degree of fame, I
refer to a vessel well known throughout this country as the
Alabama. (Loud and repeated cheering.) lam not ashamed
to acknowledge that some of my family have had to do with
that ship. Still, some statements have been made about her
which should be controverted. I should not have made any
remark now. but for the fact that the Government of this
country have made certain statements, and have given cer-
tain legal opinions about her, and they have talked about the
vessel having escaped. I see my friend Mr. Hind and other
gentlemen who are somewhat of sporting men, and well
they know what I mean when I say—when hounds approach
a fox cover the fox scents the hounds, and when the hunts-
man comes up to the cover the fox is gone. It is nonsense
to talk about the fox escaping or about the Alabama escap-
ing. The Alabama was in dock when she was inspected by
very many curious people, and in dock she took on board
her coals and her stores. There was no secrecy what-
ever observed about the ship. She went out of dock
at night, and if she wanted to escape surely the night
was a time when she could have escaped. But, what
wary the fact ? They were so vainglorious about their
little craft, that they anchored her off the Landing.
stage, and there she remained until half-past 10 or 11 the
following morning, when she left for her destination. They
adroit that she was not fitted out as a man-of-war, and that
they had no legal authority to detain that ship until a man
was engaged to serve on board her as a sailor. Does any
shipowner present believe, or any man connected with ship-
ping, that the captain of a vessel supposed to be going upon
any extraordinary voyage would go and tell a man who ap-
pears to have been a hired agent or spy of certain gentle-
tell a Would
comme
on
rocaptain ol
of a r
ship
theon such
aSailors'n
sI
nip
know(
it is not
ro‘;,tllt.reeaunied,
;o,h.auantt outs otbt.:p
applause.)
man
nasne
.)w intentions
acse
rttoa;dn lCertainly regarding
nnyotth.inNgt
ohwao
the eorCby the,eriptain. I have been so inforined, and" be-
lieve the information to be on the best authority. But let
me dell you his not necessary,.in engaging Men to go to any
pare,of the'world,.to tell those men where they are going;
because, yon knew, am an old hani'myself in fitting int
secret exPeditiOns: (Laughter and applause.) A:few
years ago it-was thought "desirable by the 'Government of
this country to send vessels to China and to various parts
of India secretly. A Chinese war was anticipated; the
somebody,
t h Russiansee were
paHrheerra
texpectedMajesty's; ndtoi
teowm aes
Governmentddoe: down
desirable
were
e ttoe headp
pleasedl
place
ethe
faith
Indusoitplace
iene
faith in me, and I built for the British Government about
a dozen vessels; but the Government said to me, " What
we want you to do, Mr. Laird, is this—we want you to
build, and to arm, and equip these vessels, and to send them
out , they must be yours, and nobody must know anything
about ic." Well, being a prudent sort of a shipbuilder, I
said, "I will take your order on these conditions." I built
the ships; they were armed; 1 engaged men; I did
everything. (" Hear, hear," cheers and laughter.) I had
to engage, not only sailors, but engineers and boiler-
makers,
ehip-earpentere, and men of a variety of trades ;
I had to send them to various parts of the world, and I can
assure you that a few shillings per month extra did all the
business. They did not care whether they went so long as
they got a little extra pay ;laughter)—and, therefore, the
statement regarding the captain of the Alabama having told
a sailor all about the ship—whose she was, and where she
was for.--bears the impress of falsehood upon the very face
of it. I never saw the captain of the Alabama but once, and
that was after having taken the ship out, and I don't think
he was the man to make such a statement as that upon
which the ship might have been stopped. Let me read you
a few words from a speech of the Solicitor-General, who
made another great speech the other day at Richmond. He
said some months ago :—" It was not till the Alabama
reached the Azores that she received her stores, her cap-
tain, or her papers, and that she hoisted the Confederate
flag. It is not true that she departed from the shores of
this country as a ship armed for war." (Hear, hear, and
great applause,) And then went on to say :—" But I wish
the house to understand that in those depositions there was
a great mass of hearsay evidence, which, taken by itself,
could not form the basis of any action. Of the six deposi-
tions transmitted on the 22d July, only one was good for
anything at all—viz., the evidence of a person named Pass-
more, which was sufficient to prove the material facts. Two
more were sent, corroborating Passmore, on the 24th, and
and were received by Earl Russell on the 26th." (Hear.)
Passmore was the man who made the affidavit that he was
told by the captain where the ship was to go. I don't be-
lieve him, and he must have got up the evidence for the
Occasion. Lord Palmerston, whom we all respect—(ap-
plause)—s: id on the 27th of March last—" I have myself
great doubts whether, if we had seized the Alabama, we
should not have been liable to considerable damages. It is
generally known that she sailed from this country unarmed
and not properly fitted out for war, and that she received
her armament, equipment, and crew in a foreign port.
Therefore, whatever suspicions we may have had---and
they were well founded, as it afterwards turned out—as
to the intended destination of the vessel, her condition
at that time would not have justified a seizure." (Cheers.)
Now, hero is Lord Palmerston, an old and experienced man,
who says, in his opinion, the Government would have been
liable to considerable damages had they stopped that ship.
I think after what has been said—considering
my connec-
tion with this place, and after the noise this vessel has made
in the world—(laughter and applause)—the meeting will
excuse my having brought forward these questions. (Ap-
plause) But the whole question of the defences of this
country may be, I think, very safely brought before this
meeting, because they are all intimately connected with the
Volunteer movement; and I therefore feel that I have Leen
justified in going somewhat at length into the various lees;
tions as to the character of our ships of war, the quantity of
guns that they are to carry, and other incidental matters.
does
not speeches have been made by a noble lord who
not seem to agree with Lord Palmerston. I mean Earl
Russell. (Hisses.) He made a speech the other day which
has caused a great sensation all over the world, and which
the Americans say is only duo to the coercion they have
put upon him. Earl Russell is a man who is well known
and respected throughout the country by his own followers;
but he is a man of whom Sydney Smith said that he had
such confidence in himself that he would take command of
the Channel fleet, if necessary. Well, I think Earl Russell
has undertaken something that he will not be able to carry
through quite so easily as, perhaps, be might command the
Channel fleet. He has undertaken to say in this country
that he can do certain things, and that if he finds the law
is not sufficient he can go to Parliament for an indemnity,
(Hear, hear.) I don't believe myself that Parliament will
ever indemnify any man in the country, however powerful
and however great he may be, if he is trying to transgress
the law. (Loud and protracted cheering.) At any rate,
up to the time that the Act of Indemnity is passed, there are
laws in the land which all of us are bound to obey. (Hear,
hear.) Laws are not made for Administrations, but for the
people of this country, and the people are bound to obey
the law as it stands, and not to obey laws which may pos-
sibly come to be passed hereafter. (Renee ed cheers.)
Another eminent gentleman, Sir Roundel' Palmer, has
made another speech at Richmond; and I must say, hav-
ing read the speech, that it is all very well for an eminent
lawyer, one of the first legal authorities of the day, to make
a speech in the month of March, and say that those were
and to make a speech sup-
port of another client in October of opposite views; but
the views of the country,
I say it is not the duty of a man who holds the position of
a statesman in this country to be placing one interpretation
cheers.)
upon certain facts in March and another in October. (Loud

Full benefit of reduced duty obtained by pur-
chasing Horniman's pure Tea; very choice at 3s. 4d. and
4s. "High Standard" at 4s. 4d. (fotwerly 4s. Bd.), is the
strongest and most delicious importetfc Agents in every
town supply it in nackets.