The Sun.
London, England, 1801-04-16 00:00:00

144.1(...“),Z VI" Co
loG.talL...:tia)

BONI'S-Oki APi IL .Is. • -
The phrnaged. Ala i tzal was read'i fait tin and ordered
to, b'e ceadia second tilde lei-rnorrow.
Accoimrs of the totara:gtount orihe rr'lorrs• fortlft- last
threJ yearn, distit*uishing those of Britt.sh,.Karifadure,
were prosemod, and ordered to on the Taff.e.
The Custom Duty Bill •A'ent.thrty..4h a Committee. and
was 'ordered to-be- read-11MM rime on-fritter,-,
•-Reliortthe Cornrititteeatipioisti46l4;ol4stradrz...tbe.
St.intling (.)rder4; relative to I twinseres, was referred to a .
tett Committee.
.Tie.Retiort ofrieditnittee on the Small Beer Brewers.
'refifigil was' hrtni)riSetip, react; bud agreed to,-*pci
ordeittr to.,,lK4fßoicitt.in,,ia conformity to the Report.

F. 11'EIRDZ7:T said,- that he iad a Petition
to presebr, ionic he would now.read to the_flouse ;
it was from Johnilietne, a piivate .soldier in -theist
Regiment of • Foot Guards : It stated, that .he was
ordered tolreland along with his-kegintent- in 17,18;
that at Portsmouth, jut as he was going to emhail,
he was arrested on the i zth of: July, and after some
days confinemtnt sent to London, where he was ex.
amined before, Sir Wm. Addington and Mr. Ford.
Sir Y. Buknrrr was proCeeding in yearling • the
Petition, when _ .

,The .O)EzIKER interrupted him, and asked if
he.could.not state the objea of the Petition shortly,
and it would be read,when presented.
.1;,- F. BURDETT said, that the substance of
the Petition was a complaint of hard Ships suTered
under the Suspension of the Habeas Corpus Att, and
an' application for relief, but as the details or the
Petition were in his • opinion of the utmost
consequence, he wished to read it fully. -- He
then proceeded. in reading the Petition, which
farther stated that Mr. Ford asked the Petitioner if
he was acquainted with Mahony and another Sol-
dier; to which he answered that he Was,. that they .
were in the same regiment with him ; that Mr.
Vord then asked him it he was not in the habit of
reading Newspapers, &c. to the other Soldiers of the
Regiment
Here Sir F. BUZDFTT Was interrupted by Sir R.
Btrxrox, who moved -the Standing Order- for the
exclusion of Strangers. The. Gallery was immedi-
ately cleared, and we undeistood that Sir.F. 13t ~a 7
Derr read the Petition, and having afterwards pre-.
sented it, moved that it should lie on - the Tabie:
A division took' place on this Motion's. Olitalf-Wa's
negatived) but we could not learn the numbers..
Ott our-'te:adinission to the Gallefy;.

The tY LINCELLO R of the EXCHEQUER was •
speak ;It on' the Question that the. Bill =to>prevent
SeditiOns 'Meetings be now read a second Airtlei--
The cour:ie he recommended lobe rakti was, bat,
the Bill be uo* read a secondtime,* that::i.L be coin, .
mitted toLmorrow:, that the Report be receiv.ed..on,
Friday, and that the-third readini
next. He saw-no objection to.-.this coarse,.. atnd it
he heard none stated, he should take it for granted
that Gentlemen on the other, side acquiesced
Mr. PITT said, he was stirprized-that.:any
lay should have been expeaed by'. Gentlemen on
the other side [Th;s evidently :soniething
which eve did not hear) The Bill ytas'not:new to
Parliament.: •It came before the' consideration of
the House many•years ago. It then was a new:
measure,. 'and was amply discussed and the-•expe-:
diency k proved, and therefore it ,was adOptd,
It rested onfaeta which• were then establish.;:it, and
the continuance of the cause of the NU was stated-
in :tic Rcpoit now before che.Houcfe, which Ri.port
'expressed, in the strongest tern, the necessity of
the measure, for it was thtie particularly stated
that the ilninediate ob:jed 'in the view of those
whose machinatiorn were to be guarded against,
was, that of "':olleaing numerous meetings in dif-
ferent parts 'if the Country at once, and to encica.-
your by a sudden explosion, to avail themselves of
the int_terVal. which may still take place before this
Law can be renewed." If Gentlemen gave credit
te, the statements of the. Committee, there should be
as little delay
,in the progress of this measure
possible, and Gentlemen would feel the necessitY.Of
pr'oceedin'g in it- from day-to day, and to'appoint
the time of the third reading for Mondiy tie*, and
then, if there were objeelions to the , they
might of course be urged.
Mr.
.77,ER.VE.Y said, that the truth was, that
when- lie was asking for delay, he was asking•for
nothing, fur hirmelf, for he was as ready now as he.
had bfe, ‘tt any, time, to state his objetlions to'rhe
measure" hut. there were others whO wieie not
ready, many who were'absent, and on theiratcOunt
he wished for time. He wished also that the,
Pub-
lie should have. some time to consider this measure,
and tit the Hiiuse to Sec whether aTh•-•
would be presented again.st it ;. 110(tihalite•knew of
any, or believed there would appear moil olajdtirr
eif•thit sort, for ;the spirit of ..Petition., was much .
abated, and abated much in consequence of this Very
Bill. having been in forte so 'Ong- as ir was ;'but he,
staied...this in 'conformity to the ancient rates of
Parliament, which always !awed considerable in-
tervals between the different stages of every Bill
which operated in'%any degree as a:restraint upon
the People. For his :own part he ftafilb' hope of
producing much •effed i onposipg_this. Bill • he
wanted no time' hithsett, tor tie was- ready to do, all
tvhich he could do, that ofcntering a'Protest against
this Measure ; bur others wanted time; and he
thought the good old Rules of' the House- required
that time should be allowed in this cases more than
the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER seemed dis-
posed to grant.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER.
said, he was sine the House must perceive it • was
his wish to accommodate Gentlemen
.on.4he other
side, as much as possible, but the House must also
see, it was incumbent on him not to assent to any.
thing that would produce any considerable delay in
the usual and customary progress of •a .Bill of this
kind. Honourable Members would have an ample
opportupity of offering their obje&ions on the third
readlAg'of the Bill, if, in reality; they had any ;
butilie amid not assent to the assertion.-of thelion:
Gtii*lgroan who spoke last, that thecourse- proposed
for p.ursuing this Bill, was contrary to the best
pratliee of the House. He would refer to tlle
Journals.; and submit, that there were precedents
for the mine which he proposed in this case. 'But
this'll! had been treated as if the subjed was new,
when; indeed, it was so far from being so, that we had
had the experience pffiveyears upon its effed. -During
all that time there was not one Petition against the
Bill; a pretty good proof that the Country approved

!r

5

14

Ltli

~~.

'4

. .
meant to contend that the Bill itself operated ta
prevent Petitions; Unquestionably that cotild not
beset-, for &sting that period Parliament had
ed Petitions-for. Peace, and on various' topics of great
Public concern and National Importance. In one .
•
word, the right of Petitioning bad not been in the s.
-slighteitrAlegre.c.relaided by .this. but on •the.
'tarty si4s' the ex rc se. Isf-it.itotisiteen-as-free-onel-4.,
frequent too, during the time in which .this• Bill war,
as at any period of the same duration in th* •
Zvliolc of our History, As to the Bill itself-Om
lieved, that it-pre time it, was in some degree-ut
popular ; but there was a change of opinion upoik:;;,4
that subjeet sb-Onafter its passing, and. he declared,
that into all the company he went, the Bill Was app. ~.0
proved of uniformly by 'the most enlightened per.. •
sons with Whom he had an opportunity of con. -
versing. He had very, very often observed it to be
the subjed of perfect approbation. It was .opposed as.-
tirst from a principle that was laudable, and he.
hoped never to see it extinguished in-this Country,
principle of jealousy upon the subjel of Public Li..
betty. But soon after the passing of the Bill, a ''t
convi&ion of the propriety of the measure succeed.-
ed that jealousy ; since which the measure had
been knOwn and:telt to be instrumental in:preserv-
ing the Constitution of this country., Now, .with,
the experience of the utility of the measure for" Nur)
years, without one expression of public discontent
or dissatisfaftion, except in the way of Debate in
tharlionse,'.of which,he begged robe understood as
not speaking. lightly, but in illustration, he would__
begleave.to ask, whether it, Was not rather t 04%
much to presume, that if some time were to'ilipse,
as some Hvn. Gentlemen kvmeci to wish, it W. I

'rtobahle ;hat numerous Petitions would be presented ,
against this measure ? If there was no probability' .-..
of any petitions whatever against it, he did nit see. •
how, consistently with his public duty, •he • coda_
indulge his wishes to aceommlclate Gentlemeawitiv.
further time than he bad already stated.
Mr. SHERIDAN' dissented from the do&rine
..
laid down by the CHANCELLOR of the ExcH I(autitl,-•
on. the subjea of 'the probability of there being •tbo:
Peictidni tebelirer,cnted against a Me.asure, and-tberi:.'
urging that for dispatch, when_the_ question_ wA, ..
constitutional: as in this case he maintained it ;wok'
The House should never srcculate either upon die
probability or the iniprobabili t y of
_Petitions' haat_
presehted against a measure,' butif it' was of gretv--.
publiC, iinnortancei- and none greater -•than .tbis,. i
was ilie-dury 'of the House to iive time, 'in ifideet
that tii;etpptilic should examine die meas?re-lindief4;2i
de rsfan'tjiti fully before it past Into 'Law .. ' .-lits thitdc,
eilififerliekat)s length iii)Ott. the Bill;:, and 'reneseettr
all-t 4 4jettions WhiCh hachieen urgeitioVie OM.:
. whetrirst introduced, into Parliament, bi4oonuhßi..,'7
crwith'observing,- that he had no hope of"-hkils,:::
jecqions _ha vit4 :any 'effeo, but' that he uttered theil
railu:r as 'a. protest' 'against the 'Measure than as ail-
efficient oppositioni to it. . - - • - • ::.. :,...:-.
,Lakl HAWKESBC.l47sUpported the Bill,- as
measure 'which had alriady produced the int-Otialet.;=.
tary efteft.. It7had not in the slightest degree dis.,'
o.3i.traged the pptetice of petitioning, for in .17g
there were Petitions ohVarious public subjefist and
• aintmg,the rest,
.seVeral lOgtheCrOWn to disinisa its
Ministers. In- short, he was convince+that nett
Bill never did, nor ever would, check any fair-Pei:le
tion whalaver. leehecked indeed- some; aeobliii-4
cal attempts to excite discontent under eolotti
of petitioning, - and in that view of the thin
the Bill was that toi which there never co* .
be any objection. But the right of petitioning'
the Throne-, or either House of -Parliament, .wattla
Right inherent in the Subjeet.of this Country, its,
tsst
hr .e n:)ovite,dOli
was a. Right so sacred, that lie would never 1544'
to any measure to restrain even the caprice or et..
.cess of it, except when he s saw arY:evivdoetnedt n.efcoesisr,thisitli,
for so doing. wHe sate that
nec
measure
uthat l garaodunodp,o
la) ptdhe thatsamoe ground,nly,
the dispatch of it also. 1 ~
.--._
Mr. WILBERFORCE reserved stating.theliro.
ments which convinced. him of the nicessitT'ilibe
presehr Measure. till a future opportunity:o4l4lo4y
rose now to corroborate the itatements'ofiliisitßight
Hon. Friend respetting the opinion whiChhad.been
entertained .bk the Public . of this measure when for.
rnerly adopted: :He allowed that at first strong pre.
judices, arising, from -misconceptions of the nature
.of the measure, had existed against it, as it hadliet'tn
'conceived- that- it went to prohibit,4ll-meetings of
any kind Or for any purpose whatever. But when
their misconcept4ins were done away, When it , ap.
~: pearcd_that it -only, laid. restraints on meetings to
-consider of :any sobje6t relating to Church or
,State, then the People in general came to consider
•jt.as a salutary measure of precaution, of promo—
tion,. and safeguard to the Constitution, rendered
necessary by temporary circumstances. As to ir4e
mode-Of :he -appointrnent'..of the Committee of

Sat:my, he argued that although there.wcre Or
-five -hundred of the :Houie who. entertaintd`tht

sane • opinions of the measures which , ought
,to
rpurstmd, but iulte• .• if they, aaed without CM.
cert.:isi utiderStanting with each ocher, might
hav_etiven in very different lists of Members to
compose the Committee,- it might have resulted
that that Committee -might have been chosen by. 4
very small minority of the.House.a6tiog in concert,
and.been composed of Members in whom neither the
Majority of the House nor of the Country could
have confidence, if some plan had not been adopted
to secure a conformity ofchoice, as where there was
a coincidence cilobje,a and design, and he thought
that the distribution.-.of the lists which had be
talked of, was a fair A 9 will as Ali best Method or se.
curing thii objed: He further contended, that no
method could have been adopted which left a greater
liberty to Members, :or could' have less room tOr.the
operario of ibiluence, as any,Gentletuan was, left
perfecliy at libertysto alter the list presentee-119J an)
as he might think proper, . He net advettPl
.to
ER what Mr. SH I D A N had said •res, cding•-inqaoces
in which the same plan in the appointturnt QC C.
fiances of Secrecy had not been follo*cd.„7,As to
the firsi," the Committee. on the Fintrt*t of the
Country, be considered its. attention to..lttire
been directed •to a solljett on . which. no -Oen.
tleman who could add one figure to ant her
could differ in. opinion, and that, consequently,
there could . be no danger in apil4l wing persons
of different scntimen :from the Majority of

the House, Members of it, As to the other i
Committee, of which'the Hon. Gentleman said he
was a Member, the subje-ff laid before it was a de.-
licate one to- mention • .but that why it :consisted of
persons. of very,: different sentiments' on :polities
could be easily accounted for; froth the state of par.-.
ties at. that time, and other circumstances, which-he
now felt it perfealy unnecessary to detail. On an-
other -day, -he_ would. _s,tate..his_. reasons for thinking,
m
this measure necessary. In the ean time he card
only say; that as it was the duty of the House to
guard.the Constitution against encroachments, so it
was itti. duty to endeavour to provide a remedy
againstwy disease which may threaten its existence.
Such aseniedy against such a disease, he' conceived
that the passing of this Bill would prove.
Mr. HENRY LASCELLES contended, that this
measure had been generally approved of in the
Country when formerly adopted ; and that the op..
position then' made to it, was a proof of the futility
of the grounds on which it is now opposed.
Mr.TIgRIVEY rose, whert.he -was called to or.
der by Mr. PITT.
Mr. TIERNEY said he rose to move an 'Upend.
went.
Mr. PITT called for the opinion of the Sr E AXE Its
whether a Gentleman having spoken upon a Motion,
and having been allowed, by the indulgence of the
House, to speak in explanation, had any right to
speak again under the pretence of moving an
Amendment ? •
The. SPEAKER said, that this was a subjeEt an
which he wished to take the opinion of the House :
at the same time he was inclined to think that it:
would be better if Gentlemen, after having spoken,
and after having been allowed to explain, were re.
straino from moving an adjournment,.or an amend.

Mr. BAKER spoke in corroboration of the opi-
nion expressed by the SP EAICE R.
General WALPOLE moved that the word C now '
should be left out, and that the Bill should be read a
second
.thne on Monday next.
Mr. TIERNEY said, that now as he had one
person of the same opinion with.himself, and who
had made the Motion which he meant to make,
he had an opportunity of speaking without danger
of interruption. He thought ,it ,his dutY to: use
tkrerkeneans in his power to prevent the passing, of
such a Dill, at least to prevent its passing in such
haste. He contended that there was no instance of
the HOW coming. to any vote on a• measure atfeEt.
ing,the Liberty of the subjea on a general Report
as Committee of Secrecy, containing no evidence.
If he was wrong, the CHthICELLO it of the Excel R.
QUER could set him right. He wished for some
delay, „ that if the Report of, the, 'Committee
fdtinded on evidence, the House may learn what
that evidence is Vefbre adopting :_this measure. He
nett advetted to;'Whar Mr. W I I.lllt YOR t had
said respeaing 'the Inane& of choosing the Come
mlttee, arid aegtit4;,
that that Hon. Gentlemarehad
..
seemed to 11413 i; 'that the subject referred to was
one which required-more of fancy and imagination
than. judgment in 'those who were to make the Re-
pOrtupen It. He contended, in opposition to what
he'had.stated, that on afair calculation from figures,
at leasr five from his side of the House ought to
have-been Members of that Committee, as on the
last- great division they had voted as hundred
against -three hundred. He expressed hii sur.
prise that an independent Member - for such a
large County as Yorkshire should. avow_ his °pi_
that a d're.eury Letter was the' best .meaAs
of creating an understanding among Members of the
Molise of Commons. He accounted 'for the Hon.
Gentleman's eagerness for passing•this measure, ftom
his finding of late that his instruttions from his Con.
iiituents dashing with his Votes, and from -their
sending him Petitions to present to the Throne,
which did not:. accord with his sentiments. As to
e. Popularity of thii measure, he was convinced,
that it was, very unpopular,. perhaps from. an erro-
-40000 idea.eif its extent ; and as to its operation, he
could not see' hOw it couldiemeely the evil which it
was,..pretended,. by the-Report of the Committee, to
tie.itikobjea to•proveot..
•
Mr. Wrt.sF,tF9l cß.explained. •
ne'SOLIC TIVR'OENER AL defended the man-
ner in which the Ceerunittee had been appointed,
;net justified theexclusion from it of all the Members
of Opposition. •
Mr. SHERIDAN replied to the argument. of
the So tett tTOReGE NE RAI., and argued that it would
have been better even for Ministers if they had ad.
'flitted some Geptlemen.frorn his side of the House
into the Committee. - (Same guns were at this mo.
ment fired from the other side of the River, and
r.,SHERtA,Ay obsereed, that,-considering them
as the, signal, citrejeicin) he was happy to say that
no man could rej9ice snot.; than he d onehe news
which hadlieen.Oeeiired:'--fle;,hepcd that this was
plot.) He adverted to
not the ,oPOing of a new
the which the Committee had been
tilesen,
ant' expressed his surprise that it should be
'
defeedeel and openly avowed by the Ctieweteeoa
of tie Exc r a, and by an independent Represen,
laiiee for a large and populous County. He thought
the best way would be, to create a new Office of
Oiitieal Ballot Master, with a handsome Salary, and
bestow it on the Hon. Gentleman, Mr. Wien lea-
'nee. 14or 111 S own part he had been thought a pro.
per Member of a Committee on Finance, but he was
told', that he would have been a very improper per_
son to be a Member of this Committee. He was
4upposed to be more versed in Cocker than in Con.
greve, to be better acquainted with Arithmetic than
Poetry. He had not fancy enough for forming a
proper report on Plots and-Conspiracies, to imagine
the eharatters and frame the denouement of the piece.
However from the language at first held by the
CHANCELLot of the ExCH FQV ER respecting his
• determination to -adhere to no Party, he had, he
Orifeslted, been afraid that he should.: have been ap-
=. Vineeel, a, Member of this Committee.
,•..
• the'Sotic teoß Gv:vEt A explained.
OIANCELLOR of the E.)e.o lIE.QuEk said;
that, all. that had been said respecting the mode of
the appointment of the Committee, was only a
counterpart to what the Hon. Gentleman'had' said in
i7echeand which had then been fully explained by
elm then Ministers. of tie Crown, particularly the
there st,.4x E•,' 1' at WAR. Ije- contended' that the

• . • •
ttode, so far from being tinpreeectented, was uni-
versally praaised for convenience, in the legitimate
sense of the word, by every public body. Whoever
thought of complaining of the Direaors of the East
India Company, for handing about Lists of Gentle-
-men to fill the places of those six who go out by
rotation every year ? These Lists do not fetter, in
the least degree, the freedom of choice in the Proprie.
tors ; neithdr did the Lists given, cm the occasion. now
alltWd to;fettertany Gentleman in his choice.. As to
the unprecedentedness of the present measure alledged
by Mr. TIERNEY, the CHANCELLOR Of tlfe Ex_
CHEQUER contended that whether or not any exact
precedent might be found, there was nothing in it'
contrary to the forms and rules usually observed by
the House ; and that it had at least the sanCtion of
the unanimous recommendation of ,the most nu-
merous Committee that ever was appointed for
that purpose.
Mr. TIERNEY explained, and stated the dif-
ference in his mind between continuing and renew-
ing the Mt now proposed to be revived.
Mr. ADDINGTON said, he believed there was
scarcely any other Gentleman who would have- at-
tempted to make such a distinaion.
Lora' COLE said, that he was one of the Com-
mittee, but disclaimed all idea of its being formed
on party ground.

Mr. -NICHOLLS said, that if the Bill passed
upon the general Report of the Committee, and be-
fore the .produftion* of evidence, it would afford
ground of suspicion that that evidence was incoln_
plete, and would be dissatisfallory to the Public :
he should therefore support the Amendment.

The question was then ?ut, that the Bill be now
read a second time, which was carried without a
division. The Bill was read a second time accord-
ingly, and committed.
Mr. ADDINGTO', addressing himself to the
Hon. Gentleman opposite to him (Mr. TIERNEY),
said it would he a matwr of convenience, and re.
quested it as a favour of him to postpone the Mo-
tion which he had given notice of his intention to
bring forward to-morrow, unto some other day.
Mr. TIERNEY expressed his readiness to com-
ply with the request of the Right Hon. Gentleman,
and intimated that he should consider of bringing it
forward some day next week.

Mr. N. PANSITTART brought up suodry Pub-
lk Aceounts, which were laid'upon the Table.
The Report of the Innkeepers -Allowince Bill
was brought up, and ordered to be read a thifd time
to-morrow.
The Committees of SUpply and of Ways and
Means were deferred, till Friday.—The other Or.
ders of the Day were postponed.
Adjourned at eight o'clock tilt to-morrow.

THE SUN. •

SPLEAII DICARS i ALSVAII AUDE^T