The Sun.
London, England, 1830-03-31 00:00:00

a clear and eanneetc4 account of what fell from 11;m. The
Hon. Gentleman was understood to say, in reply to the
observation, ef the receding speaker, that the Hon. Mem-
ber had not ~fitted fairly the opinion of the Cemtnissioners
Oferind Pettentie inqbity iii liBo ; it ryas. tree the (...3m
Fart tti the;r eitMrestied rtry hr
that, melee favoOrab'e circumstances, the income to the
revenues end Crown estates from all sources might finally
,mount to 400,0001., but in .tt subsequent part of the Re-
pert they limited their expectations,. after making the
dadeet;one on eecoiet of the demised estates of the
Crown to an income of 200,0001. When the 'Commis-
sioners stated the larger sum, they took into account an
extensive system of planting and the growth and increas:-'d
value of the timber in the royal forests. But the plan of'
extensive !Awing had not been pursued as contemplated.
The demised etates amounted to 170,0001. or 180,0001.
Th!t wits refining the elcpectltions if the Commiesionees
pretty well. At the time that the Parliamentary Com-
missioners expressed a hope that the rents would amount
to 200,0001., only 11,0001: a year was received. He de-
fied the Hon Meade for Worl7e,tee to prove that there
te.Sla nets arrangements in the Woods tool Forests.
The Hon. Member said that the expense of collection was
25 per cent., but this he denied. The Hon. Gentleman
proceeded to say, he was sure it was in the recollection of
Hon, Members that animadversions had been made on the
state of the parks on the other side of the House. In con-
sequence of these remarks the Right Hon. Secretary for
the Home DenertMent calleal. the attentit_le of the I,'l4:asurta
tet the stihjeele and he (Mr. Arbuthnot) was desired to
undertake the management of the improvements. Eatitnabs
were preferred, and the alterations commenced. Whether
the improvements in the parks deserved censure
would not pretend to say. The utmost endeavoens
had been made to carry them into effect, ill a manner
the most advantageous to the public, and if the Hon.
Member for Worcester knew all the trouble and diffi-
culties of the undertaking, he would hot consider it
an easy or agreeable duty. He trusted that the atteea-
, tions had given satisfection to the public, and was confident
it Would be found that the greatest economy was adopted
in carrying on the works: The architects and other per-
sons employed had given in estimates, and the various
works were executed on contract prices. Generally speak-
ing, not a single work bad been executed (so we owlet,
stood the Hon. Gentleman to say), tile cost of-which was
not below the estimate. Great improvements had taken
piece in the parks before, but it having been stated that
they were not of a nature to afford sufficient room to the
populatioe of this immense metropolis to enjoy air and
exercise, through the gracious permission of his Majesty
measures were taken by which the comfort and enjoyment
of the communityliad been considerably enlarged. If the
Hon. Member for Worcester were not satisfied with what
had been done, he was sorry for it. With regard to
Regent-street, be should have been glad if it bad been in
his power to claim the merit of proposing and carrying on
that great work. The Hon. Member said that the first
estimate for the new street was 368,0001., but that esti-
mate did not include the entire of the expense. The ar-
chitect was afterwards ordered to give in another and a
more extensive estimate, and it was perfectly true that this
amended estimate was exceeded by the actual cost of the
undertaking. He admitted that the expense was more
' than three times the amount of the second estimate. But
the Hon. Member should recollect that it was not possible
in such a work to estimate the amount of expenditure
with accuracy. Enormous and extravagant sums were
demanded for good-will of houses, &c.—the cases were
brought before juries, and the public was defeated in
almost every instance. Under such circumstances,
although the cost had gone far beyond what was
originally contemplated, and notwithstanding the under-
taking might not have been attempted if it were sup-
posed that the expense would have been so great as it
eventually turned out to be, he maintained that the im-
provement had added greatly to the comfort and health of
the inhabitants of the metropolis, and that the money was
well expended. He came to the works which he himself
had undertaken under the sanction of the House—he al-
luded to the improvements in the Strand, and he thought
it must be admitted that a great and beneficial object had
been attained in getting rid of the narrow lanes and alleys
that filled that part of the town, and ware the scenes of
vice and immorality. It would be admitted that this was
an important undertaking. The cost of the Strand im-
provements, as far as an estimate of the cxpence could be
formed, would amount to 748,0001. This was Mr.
Nash's estimate, and another person had been employed
to make an estimate, and his calculation amounted to the
same aunt. It was thought, however, that there might
be an excess of 95,0001. over the estimate, on account of
architects' and solicitors' charges, sums paid to make up
deficiences of rates, purchases, salaries, &c. It was im-
possible to say exactly what would be the cost of under-
takings like that in question, where there was not only a
buyer but a seller, and where the seller, if dissatisfied,
might go before a jury. He denied the charge of bad
ntanagement adduced by the Hon. Member for Colches-
ter, and he was ready to answer all such charges if offi-
cially made.
Colonel DAVIES said a few words in expiation, which
did not reach the gallery.

Cl
Mr. HUME supported the motion, because, though he
was not inclined to make anydirect charge of corruption,
yet lie thought the system open to the greatest possible
abuses. That there had been great mismanagement on the
part of these who presided over the department, was clear.
The Royal forests ought to supply the whole of the navy
with timber, instead of producing only a few paltry loads
a-year. Let the Noble Lord (Lowther) lay on the table
of that House the number of loads of timber.—(Hear, and
laughter.)—lle meant returns of the number of loads of
timber which had been furnished from the Royal forests for
the navy for the last 70 years. He would venture to say
that such returns would show that the timber had cost the
country its weight in silver.—(Hear, bear.)—They talked
a great deal about the weight of our debt. Now, why
did they not sell all the Crown lands and forest, and con-
vert the produce into a sinking fund for the extinction of
the debt. This would be a substantial and efficient sink-
ing fund. At all events, however, let them have esti-
mates and annual reports from this department.
Mr. HUSKISSON began by observing that the House
had no right to dispose of the hereditary revenue of the
Crown without its consent. The estates, in the event cf
an absence of arrangement in respect to the Civil List,
would revert, as matter of course, to the Crown. There
estates were important in another respect. In the Royal
forests there were plantations made 20 years back, in
which there were oaks in a most thriving and flourishing
condition, which would, under: the care now taken of
them, afford, at a proper period, a most valuable supply
of timber for the public service. Those forests were as
much divested of all forestal. rights as any gentleman's pri-
vate estate. He was not aware how the value of the
Crown lands had been estimated at 700,0001. per annum.
In 1793 they were valued at 400,000/. As the leases
fell in, he calculated that the lands in London would yield
a rental of 500,000!., and be calculated it thus :
—The ground-rent was 100,000/, and reckoning
the buildings at five times the value of the
ground-rent, this would make the rental of the Crown
lands in London 500,000/. If this was a correct estimate
he should not overrate the rest of the estate, including
manors and• woods, at 250,000!. or 300,0001. more, and
that would produce a rental of 800,000/., instead of
400,000/. By the Act of Mr. Pitt, in 1794, to which
he would call the particular attention of the House, and by
a subsequent Act, an immense change had been intro-
duced, which materially lessened the influence of the
Crown ; for its effect was to deprive the Crown of the
whole beneficial interest attending the making of grants to
the amount of 400,000!., whereby the Crown gave up a
greater source of undue influence than had been ever sur-
rendered since the accession of the House of Hanover.—
The provisions of this Act of 1794 had been strangely
passed over by the Hon. Members who brought this sub-
ject forward. Those provisions bad been so severe, that
the middle-men, or sub-lessees, had, in many cases, de-
clined to accept a renewal of their leases. The effect of
that law was, that the Commissioners were restrained
from letting at any rent less than a rack-rent, with an
abatement of five per cent. He (Mr. Huskisson) was
entitled to claim, on behalf of the office of Woods and
Forests, that the House should believe that in all cases
the utmost rent was obtained that was obtainable, accord-.
ing to the opinion of competent surveyors. The Hon.
Member for Colchester had referred to the Crown pro-
perty at Elthani. That property had been let, 26 years
ago,
ito the present lessees at the rent of 3,920/. But
whet! n the delusion and excitement of agricultural spe-
eulatmn, the lessee put it up to sale in lots, he obtained
biddings to the amount of from 25,000/. to 30,000/.—
Before he (Mr. HUskissOn) left the. office of the Woods
mad Forests, however, the lessee (Sir John Shaw)
called upon him, and stated that he did not receive
from his sub-lessees a sum equal to that which be
paid to the Crown, and lie actually requested an
abatement.—(Hear, hear.)—But the Commissioners
said " No; you took the thing for better or worse,
and you must abide by your bargain." He could
say that there never had been an abatement made in
any case in which the lessee was not the actual tenant.
The Hon. Member for Colchester and the Hon. Member
for Montrose had referred to charges of jobs; but if they
would lay their finger upon any particular case, and would
call for any accounts respecting that case, or all the cases,
he would entreat his Hon. Friends now in the office to;