The Sun.
London, England, 1839-08-24 00:00:00

COLONIAL MAILS.

Mr. HUAI E then moved that it is inexpedient to make
any contract or agreement for the conveyance of the mails
to the West Indies and Continent of South America for
so long a period as ten years, and involving an expendi-
ture of ,400,0001.,2 until full information shall be obtained
in that important department, and be laid before this House.
In submitting this resolution on a subject to which he had
recently adverted—he wished it to be understood that he
did not mean to underrate the importance of facilitating the
conveyance of the Colonial Mails--on the contrary, he
felt this to be most important. But he believed that the
Colonial Post-office arrangements had been grossly neg-
lected, and that the present proceeding was wholly
irregular. He had anticpated that the Government
would have sent out a Commission to investigate the
subject ; and disappointed indeed was he to find that
without any public advertisement they should have
concluded a contract by which the country would be bound,
for ten years, and in a sum of 2,400,0001. The Govern-
ment should have settled the different lines of communica-
tion, and managed so that the larger vessels should not be
put on the longest transits.
An HON. MEMBER moved that the House be counted.
The gallery was accordingly cleared ; but in the inte-
rim sundry Members rushed in from the Lobby and
Library, and made up the requisite numbers.
On our return we found Mr. HUNIE examining the
prospectus of the Company, which had been formed under
the title of the " Royal Steam Packet Company," on thc
assurance of Government that they should have a Char-
ter of Incorporation upon the terms he had mentioned.
He had no hesitation in saying that, from the information
he had received, much more might be saved in the con-
tract, and that the line of packets might be almost made
to support itself. He knew not what power had been given
by the Parliament to any authorities to make a contract
for ten years, and the sooner a stop was put to those pro-
ceedings the better. He understood that operations would
commence about the end of the year 1841, and it was
necessary that the opinion of Parliament should be taken
on the subject as early as possible.
Mr. WARBURTON seconded the motion.
Mr. C. WOOD did not think he could add a great deal
to the explanation he had given on Et farmer occasion as to
the nature of the contract. There were two or three points
to which he thought it neceasary to advert, and first, as to
the power of tho Treasury to enter into these contracts.
Surely the Hon. Gentleman who had himself recom-
mended OP. Government to enter into these contracts,
woul,l not now deny their power to do so, or if he thought
~Rey had not that power, he never would have urged them
to make contracts for the conveyance of the mails. These
contracts necessarily depended upon the annual votes of
Parliament, and if the Hon. Member referred to what had
been the uniform practice, he would find that there were
regular votes of Parliament on the subject. So far, there.
fore, as the power went, there had never been any question,
and it had been invariably exercised, subject to the opinion
of the House in the annual estimates. It was urged that
inquiry should be made as to the regular lines of commu-
nication, and the best mode of transmitting the mails. But
did the Hon. Member suppose that the parsons at the head
of the Post-office communication iti that part of the world
and at home were without any information on the subject
—that they were not acquainted with the prevalent winds
and currents, and that the naval officers on the
West India station, the Post-office, and the Trea-
sury, were not possessed of all the information
that could possibly be given on the subject, so
as to enable them to de ,side upon the most eligible plan!
It was further urged that it was a great waste of strength
to employ large vessels in• communications between thet
different islands; but if vessels of large tonnage a.nnd
ordergrea
L power were required at all, it was in these places,b
that the mails from the different islands motigaehdt.—e in time
(1
for the homeward-bound packet to Etta
)
the Hon. Member's
There a as no ground, therefore,
for.afamberhad
Nowsaid that
no • objection on that point. One Hon
repeated corn-
fact was that the Admiralty had
no complaints had been made on this subject.
receivedvessels employed to con_
'here was also this great
plaints of the inefficiency of thel
tend with the Gulf stream. There
had the experience which
advantage, that few personsh
down;
the am
steam vessels
eebnroksennt
operations.
the Ad.miraltyFohuard aosuttooft esevcooinlcluocfting of large steam
during the last year,
employed in the W es
havingt lndies
completelyhad b
thus proving the absolute necessity of employ ing
steam
ia Iniralty to furnish
di
vessels of large power in those seas. He had
him
msir ewdithonethom
of tchollaio
ecilerktss
which
of the Admiralty
been received
I
on this subject at the Admiralty, during the course of the
last year, and he had been furnished with an immense pile
of papers in consequence. It had been stated that no
complaints had been received except f.om
persons into-
;
rested in this contract. Complaints had been received
from the British merchants residing in • Nlexico ; from the
merchants of Liverpool ; from the merchants of Bristol ;
from tho merchants of Barbadoes • from the merchants of
Jamaica, and from Mr. Burge, the agent from that island ;
from the inhabitants of Meuntserrat ; from British mer-
chants at the Havannah ; for the Deputy Postmaster at
, Jamaica; from the Governor of the Leeward Islands;
, and from the Governor of Antigua. All those were per-
,
• sons residing in that part of the world, and who were to-

tally unconnected with the parties who had entered into
this contract. He had received a representation from the
['resident of the Chamber of Commerce at Glasgow, stat-
int- that the merchants of Glasgow were better acquainted
with these matters than any other persons, and could give
the Admiralty much useful information. Ile had returned
an ; newer, stating that he should be happy to receive any
supgestions tram them, hut from that hour to this Le had
received no communication w h,lever prom thrs, gentlemen,
nor had he any reason to suppose that he should. He ent'rely
agreed with his Hon. Friend that the principle of public
competition aught to be acted on as far as possible,
but however good this was in theory they had found that
in every case in which they had put up a contract to public
competition they had failed. The principle had always failed
in practice. They had put up the contract for carrying
the mails to Halifax to public competition, and the lowest
offer they had fo: communication twice a month was
45,000/. They had afterwards however made a private ca n-
tract for a fortnightly communication with Halifax and Nova
Scotia, and a branch communication to Qa, bee, and Boston
for tiO 0001. The great advantage of public competition
was, in his opinion, the enabling them to jute for what
sum the contracts might be performed. ne contracts
which they had entered into in this instance were as low as
those into which they had entered for co:.veying the mails
to Halifax, the terms of which were twice as good as the
best offers that had been made by i-üblic competition. lie
therefore considered that the terms were advantageous. \
With regard to the time for which the contract bad been
entered into, how could the Hon. Gentleman suppose that
any body of men would make an outlay of from 80,0004
to 100,0001. in the building of steam vessels, unless their
agreement was such as to enable them to wear out these
vessels, or at least secure them scmcthing like an
adequate return for their outlay—( Hear, and cheers.)•
The Government had stipulated that if any great improve.
meat took place in the mode of impelling steam-vessels,
that then the parties to this contract were bound-,
upon a suggestion being made to that effect from the
Admiralty, to adopt such improvements. He did net
think that any Government could have done snore in order.
to ensure the greatest facility.
Mr. WARBURTON thought tba Government erect
entitled to the thanks of the country, for the contracts that
had entered into upon this subject ; but the qtestion was,
whether on entering into contracts for so long a period, the
public ought not to be satisfied that they were entering
into those that were most beneficial to the public.
An Hos. MEMBER here moved that the House be
counted, and forty Members not being present, the House
adjourned till to-morrow (this day), at twelve o'clock.

11 0 USE OP LORD S.—Auc. 23.
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his scat on the Woolsack
at Five o'Clock.
The Consolidated Fund Bill, the Exchequer Bills Bill,
and the Bankrupts' (Ireland) Bill passed through Con-
mittces of the whole House.
A message from the Commons brought up the Sale of
Spirits Licenses (Ireland) Bill, and sevethl Wier Bills.
On the motion of Lord DUNCANNOSr their Lord-
ships agreed to the amendments of the Commons to the
Dublin Police Bill, and the Sale of Spirits Licenses (Ire-
land) Bill.

On the motion of Lord DUNCANNON the London
Bridge Approaches Bill, the Manchester Police Bill, and
the CorFoiate Property (Ireland) Bill were respectively
read a third time and passed.
COUNTY AND DISTRICT CONSTABULARY

BILL.
Lord DUNCANNON moved the Order of the Day
for the third reading of the County and District Con-
stabulary Bill.
Lord REDESDALE moved an amendment to the
effect that the number of constables should be as one to
every 1,500 instead of as one to every 1,000.
Lord DUNCANNON hoped the Noble Lord would
not press his amendment.
Lord REDESDALE withdrew his opposition, and the
Bill was read a third time and passed.
On the motion of Lord DUNCANNON the Adminis-
tration of Justice (Parts of Counties) Bill passed through
a Committee, and was ordered to be reported without
amendments.

BOLTON POLICE BILL.
Lord DUNCANNON moved the Order of the Day for
bringing up the Report upon the Bolton Police Bill.
He was sorry to say that he could not consent to the Noble
and Learned Lord's suggestion opposite to give up this
Bill, and he trusted the Noble and Learned Lord would
not continue to press his objection. He had prepared ah
amendment which he hoped would get over the Noble and
Learned Lord's objection as to Little Bolton. He had
received a letter from the Mayor, which was a refutation of
many charges that had been brought against him.
Lord L Y ND H IJR ST wished to know if the 31 ayor de-
nied that he had signed a requisition for a meeting to be
held on 1301 ton Moor ?
Lord DUN CA NNONsaid that hedid make such a denial.
Lord LYNDHURST said that it did not appear that
he denied having signed a requisition, calling upon the Bo-
roughreeves to call a public meeting. Nor did he say he
was not present at meetings, and seconded some of the re-
solutions. But, however, as he was told there was to be au
inquiry into his conduct, he should not enter into that sub-
ject just now.
Lord DUNCANNON said that the inquiry would go
to his conduct since he had been Mayor. It would be
most unjust to institute it in reference to his prior conduct.
Lord LYNDHURST said the Noble Viscount was
incorrect in stating that there were now only seven con-
stables of the Borcughreeves'. The two Bosough-
reeves themselves were constables.—(Cries of " Hear.")
After the Bill passed there would be no power to call on‘
the special constable force; he was sure that the actual--
amount of the rate that would be collected would be no
more than 3,200/., which would not support a force
more than thirty men. Having made that statement
would leave the matter in the hands of the Government;
it was for them to say whether a force of only thirty men
would be enough to maintain the peace of Bolton.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said there was a clause
in the Bill especially keeping up the special constab*:e
force.

Lord LYNDHURST—It was not in the Bill originall#,
and the Noble Viscount had made no statement of the fact.
Lord RE DE SDAL E made some observation 4 across
the table, but which were totally inaudible in the gallery.
Lord LYNDHURST said he had been informed that
the district to which the taxation Was to extend was an
agricultural district, so that it would have to contribute to
the police of Bolton and the police of the country. That
was an injustice which ought not to be permitted.
The Duke of WELLINGTON said the clause which
the Noble Viscount (Duncannon), had proposed was to
include Little Bolton in the taxation, but moving *h a
clause he considered to be an interference with the rights
of the other House.

Lord Ll' NDUURST said Little Bolton was Arcady
bound to contribute to the police of the county, and the
Noble Viscount was now introducing a taring clause com-
pelling them to contribute to the police of Bolton. It was
an act of gross injustice, and a direct violation of the privi-
leges of the other House.

Lord BROUGHAM said it was not for their Lordships
to interfere. They maintained the House of Commons
had no exclusive privileges of the kind, and he had seen
enough of the other House to know that their privileges
were like the qu'.2,tties of people in private life--they pat
them in their pockets when it suited their purpose.
The was then ordercdto be read a third time to-
morrevr,

Lord MELBOURNE hid on the table, by command
of her Majesty, papers relative to the affairs of the East.
BUSINESS OF THE TWO HOUSES.
Lord L YND HURST said he was anxious to call their
Lordships' attention, in pursuance of the notice which he
bad given, to the proceedings of the two Houses of Do-
liament during the present Session. As far as he. was per-
sonally concerned, the task was by no means an agreeable
one, but he had undertaken it as a duty, and in some
sort as a duty which he owed to the Noble Viscount.;
in pursuance, also, in some degree of an intimation re-
ceived from the Noble Viscount in the early part of the
Session ; for their Lordships might recollect that in the
debate on the Irish Municipal Bill, he had stated in same
detail the hasty and hurried course of that Bill through
the other House of Parliament ; and the Noble Viscount
had, in reply to those and similar statements, on
the part of the Noble Duke, said that it was a
very unfair course; that their Lordships should not con-
sider only a particular case, but should look to the general
proceedings of the Government. He concurred at that
time in the propriety of that observation of the Noble
Viscount's. And he should, in pursuance of that intima-
tion—in justice to the subject—in justice also to the
Noble Viscount—call their Lordships' attention to the
whole proceedings of the present Session, in order that,
with the whole case fairly before them, statel with perfect
plainness and simplicity on his part, they might be in a
condition to judge how far the Government were entitled to
their confidence and to the confidence of the country.
There was ore circumstance exceedingly remarkable, drat
during the first five months of the Session no Bill of any
importance had passed. Legislation had been a perfect
blank. It seemed that the Government were unable to
deal with the other House, for the purpose of properly
conducting the business of the country ; that it was not
until the Benches were emptied, and that 550 Memberi
had left town, that they were roused from their supineness,
and took any steps whatever for legislation.—( Hear.)
This was a striking demonstration of the truth of the
the declaration
the Throne,
of
Noble Duke's declaration, that the Ministry could not
carry on the Queen's Government.—(Hear, hear.) In
e
examining the proceedings of this Session, he would first
reefe
Ministers
which m u
with of croe ugrasred,
b
to the measures which at the meeting of Parliament they
considered to the sp
as speech
thh from
professed to consider necessary for the welfare of the
country, and he would inquire to what extent the promises
of that speech had been fulfilled by the Government ?
The Irish Municipal Bill, they were told, was esser4ial to
the interests of that part of the empire. They were told
to take measures to settle the affairs of Canada. They
were told to consider and carry into effect the recommenda-
tions of the Ecclesiastical Commissioners, es being a
matter of great urgency and importance. They -were fur-
ther told that it was of the first importance to direct their
attention to measures for the more speedy and certain ad-
ministration of justice. These were the prominent parts
of her Majesty's Speech ; and he was desirous of leading
the
present
their Lordships through the course of proceedings of
.
Session, in order to show how far these particular
objects had been accomplished; and,
first, with respect to
the Irish Municipal Bill, it was not his inteutien to enter
into details, but their Lordships would
ended in order recollectto that i thad
come up to that House—that it
wasr as
mo
n d with the Bil
make it ; s n^arly as possible core p
of last Session, What was the course pursued by the
the objec ions ma
were
Noble V scount ? What
of the battle, as to the amendme
proposed by their Lordships
to put in the front
?
With regard to the amend.'
menu ma
made upon the leading clauses, it was a remarkable
circumstance , in order to showhow forgetful Noble Lords
were, that the same amendments were made in the Bill
no objections were ma
of last year and de—it went down
to the other House of Parliament, and although many ob-
jections were urged there none had been whispered to, '
that amendment, and yet now so inconsistent were h ,er
Majesty's Ministers, that that objection was put in front
of the battle and urged as a ground for rejecting the

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