The Sun.
London, England, 1837-11-21 00:00:00

that the money should come from an obvious and direct
source ; therefore they thought that every part of the
revenues of the Crown ought to be placed under the
direct controul of Parliament, which would be a secu-
rity against their misapplication, and that in any arrange-
ments of the Civil List, they should apply the same
test to the recipients of Pensions as were now applied to a
lower class of her Majesty's subjects.—( Hear, hear. )
They have intimated to the House their intention of submitting
the claims of the Crown to hereditary revenue, entirely and
without reservation. It could not have escaped the recollection
of the portion of the House present on that occasion with
what eagerness a Learned Member, now a Noble Lord, in-
sisted on the construction on these words to mean the compre-
hension of the Duchies of Lancaster and Cornwall. It would
also be recollected that Lord Althorp, then in opposition,
interpreted these words in the same manner ; and it would
be further recollected that it was their fervour to
establish a complete system of economy--( Hear, hear)—and
controul over the resources of the: Crown to which their
triumph, and the station they at present occupy, was mainly
attributable. True, at a subsequent period, when those indi-
viduals had changed places, and made a cheap profession of
economy their passport to office, they found that they had
placed a wrong interpretation on those words, not because
they admitted of a different interpretation, but because
on inquiry a different meaning was to be collected
from them.—( Hear, hear, hear.) It was most important
that there should be now no misunderstanding, for it was
to be borne in mind that this was the first reign in the memory
of any living politician in which the Sovereign had not reached
mature years. In former vises, when any arrangement had
been made, it might at no very distant period be cor-.
rected ; but now they were invited to the formation of a
Civil List, which in all probability no person now living would
see re-considered ; it was therefore important that there should
be no misunderstanding in that respect, and if he understood
the Noble Lord rightly, it was to the effect that it was in the
contemplation of Government to bring the revenues of the
Duchies of Lancaster and Cornwall under the controul of that
House. If that was so, it met the preliminary part of his amend-
ment, but it was imperative that the actual amount and nature
if those properties should be known before they were invited
to settle the Civil List, because whatever the amount of that
property was, it should go in diminution of the grant that
was to be made. Perhaps there was no specious of
property belonging to the Crown upon which the pub-.
lic were so much in the dark. It had been frequently
stated that the revenues of the Duchies of Lancaster and
Cornwall amounted annually to the sum of 40,0001.
while occasional fines to an enormous extent were demanded.
It was therefore obvious that this property should be brought
under the cognizance of the House, in order that it might be
made contributory to the Civil List, and that the country should
be put in full and unreserved possession of everything that
belongs to its nature, character, and extent. If, therefore, he
understood from the Noble Lord that he took this view
'of the matter, the introductory part of his (Mr. H.'s)
amendment might be forgone.—( Hear.) He also wished
to know whether the Committee which the Chancellor of the
Exchequer had given notice of his intention to move, and to
which were to be referred the various documents in explana-
tion of the different burdens now imposed upon the Civil List,
was intended to revise the Pension List fairly. If it were so
be (Mr. ) had nothing more to say, nor had he any desire
to trouble the House with -further observations; but if he
could not so flatter himself he thought this a most appropriate
occasion for the House to express his opinion upon this sub-
ject. If it was inconvenient that the House should be invited
to pass its opinion upon the subject, it must be borne in mind
that the blame was not, attachable to the gentlemen who
thought it their duty to bring it forward ; he ( Mr. H.) never
recollected a King's Speech when Hon. Members now in
Government were in Opposition, did not preface their remarks
with a regret, and with a protest against misunderstanding
They regretted the departure of the Government from what
they termed the good old wholesome maxim of having the
King's Speech real at the Cock-pit previous to its delivery,
by which means they become acquainted with its vai ions pro-
visions. They also, at the same time, desired not to be under-
stood as in their observations upon the speech meaning any
disrespect for the ro,:, al person from whcm it proceeded.
This latter protestation was not needed on the present occasion,
for no human being could for a moment suspect that her Ma-
jesty was the author of the Speech. It was one of the most
old fashioned productions ever brought under the notice of the
House.—( Laughter.) It 'nig& have been almost copied word
for word from my Royal Si.-eech for the last century. The fancy,
therefore, of her Majestfs young and fruitful imagination
could have had nought to do with the matronly production.--
(Loud laughter.) It was at the same time extremely desirable
that the House should guard her Majesty against any of these
injurious constructions which might be put on their proceedings
in that House, under the impression that the Speech might have
been concocted, in the ordinary acceptation of the word, by
herself. Her Majesty could know nothing about the Duchies
of Cornwall and Lancaster ; nor could she know anything of
that Pension List which had been exhibited throughout the
country, and had excited more general contempt and dissatis-
faction than any measure of the Government. He would ven-
ture to say, and he appealed to all Gentlemen who had
been on the popular hustings, or at least to such of them
as were present, and had not paid the penalty for their conduct
when this subject was before under their consideration—
whether there was any cue subject respecting which the public
mind was so strong, and towards which there was so decided a
feeling, as the necessity of revising the Pension List.---( Hear,
hear.) That necessity had become the more important
and the more just from the experiments made with little
regard to the comfort or the circumstances of those who had
been the subject of inquiry under the operation of the Poor
Law Act. Many Gentlemen whom he had now the
honour cf addressing were Guardians of the Poor-
law districts, and they could call to their minds many
instances of persons, far advanced in years, who had,
for a considerable period, been the recipients of very
small sums of money by way of parochial aid, which had
either been entirely withdrawn from them, or considerably
reduced, unless they j ielded to the necessity of taking up their
abode in a district workhouse ; and many of those poor and aged
persons had been induced either to take refuge there, or to
forego the little pittance allotted to them, rather than submit
to a degradation at a hich the feelings revolted. He knew
that there were some disposed to draw a distinction between the
aged and miserable paupers, without friends and connexions, and
scarcely known to any one in the parish in which they resided, and
the names which were blazoned on the Pension List— (Hear,
hear, hear)--as linked with the Peerage and the property
of the country. This distinction might to some appear a natural
one, but to him it certainly did seem that persons who received the
money of the country without rendering any services in return were
little better than the class he had described.—(Hear, hear.) By
supporting his amendment the House would call upon her Majesty
not to suffer the Pension List to pass until it had undergone that
revision which justice and common sense demanded. If it should
be
said that the time for making such a proposition was not appro-
priate, if Gentlemen felt so strongly the desire of unanimity at the
commencement of a new reign, if he found that Gentlemen really
and sincerely entertained that opinion, he did not think that
ho would be consulting the interests of those whom he repre-
sented, if he pressed the matter to a division under such circum-
stances.—( Cries of " Hear, hear.") All he wished was to have a
proper thing done at a proper time and in a proper manner.
He hoped that it was the intention of her Majesty's Government to
submit the Pension List to that rigid revision, for they must allow
him to tell them that they had no popularity to throw away.
The untoward declaration which they had heard that night,
the manly declaration that the Noble Lord had made that night,
would prove most fatal to the present Government.—( Cheers. )
It would act with the same fatal certainty as did the decla-
ration of a Noble Duke in another place.---( Loud cheers.) Where
was the differeacs between that Noble Duke stating that he
conceived the representation could not be improved, and the
Noble Lord stating, with the facts staring him in the face,
of the corruption and intimidation that was exercised at the
last election, that he was not prepared to allow any alteration
the Reform Bill. If the Government were not prepared to
hazard the last remnant of the popularity that hung to them
they would at least have the feelings of the people with
them, by giving their support to the inquiry he proposed.—
( Cheers.) The Hon. Member concluded by moving as an amend
merit to the Address, the recommendation to her Majesty of that
House to revise the Pension List.

• Lord JOHN RUSSELL said. that as the Hon. Member did
not intend to press his motion to a division, he should confine
himself to answering some of the questions which the Honourable
Gentleman had put. As to the Duchies of Cornwall and Lan-
caster, he (Lord John Russell) thought that when the measure of
his Right Hon. Friend came befisre the House, it would be found
to remedy the evils which be longed fe the former system of
management. With respect to Oie Pension List, he thought the
best place to discuss that subject was in a Committee. But he
should tell the Hon. Gentleman further, that it was the intention
of his Majesty's Ministers to refer the List to a Select Committee.
Where there was a compact betvreen the Sovereign and the Par-
liament respecting the pensions, the Parliament might take those
cases which it thought fit ; ' but if the Honourable Member
should, in the Select Comm ittee, move for the depriving
of persons of pensions, which. they had received upon the
understanding that they should possess them for life, he (Lord
J. Russell) would oppose that pri position, although it was in the
power of Parliament to take avva: r such pensions.
Mr. HUME then put a questi,Dr, to the Noble Lord, but from
the noise in the Honse we did not eoUect the question nor the
Noble Lord's answer.
Mr. D. W. HARVEY said, much regretting to hear the state-
ment of the noble Lord, when thet 3ommittee to which the noble Lord
adverted was appointed which th, ire was too much reason to appre-
hend would be of a complexion n( to guarantee the expectation that
they would make any gratuitot is enquiry into the Pension List
—( Cries of Hear,
.hear)—hen )w gave notice that he should
move a special instruction I :o that Committee, that the
Committee shall inquire into each pension "seriatim," and take the
sense of the House upon it. T has he should do, in the full con-
fidence that he would receive as a tsich support in it from the other
side of the House as he expected t o
.receive from the side on which
he was. He should not withdraw It is motion, but leave it as the
other two had been.
Adjourned at a quarter to eleven.

The celebrated Hotel in Dublin (Antrim House
in Merrion Square), is about No change hands through the
instrumentality of Mr. George IT,C bins; it is accounted one of
the most extensive and snlendi. Hotels in .Europe, and it is
whispered that hotel-keepers it i the favoured city of Dublin
get rich at a " railway pace."
CONTENTS OF THE " 0 ,':BSERVER" OF SUNDAY,
Nov. 12.—Ten long folio colu: ram of Particulars of her Ma-
jesty's Visit to Guildhall, fou r columns of the Illumine-
tion3, five columns of Prints =presenting the East and
W.3t end of the Litfrrior of G ii, :than during the Banquet,
an appropriate emblematical des igE surrounding a Miniature
of the Queen, and a panoramic Sk ketch of the Procession.—
Price of the Observer, Five-penel,.. Copies with franks, to
send it to any part of the Countz- can yet be had at the
Office, 170, Strand.—The Obser: ver of Sunday, November
26, will contain an accurate Engrg wing of her Majesty's ap-
pearance on her Throne in the j rouse of Lords:on open-
ing the New Parliament,