The Sun.
London, England, 1808-01-22 00:00:00

le D A Y, JANUAY 22, 1808.

. . .
mending to the Coprt to transfer the seat of their
:Government to theßraiils ; it is gratifying - to see
one Government of: Europe . prefer emigration to
submission to France. . My Lords, I consider that
event (next to securing the Danish Fleet) the most
• coniequent ial that has occurred since the commence-
ment of this eventful War, and provided a stria
friendship and liberal policy is pursued. by both Na-
tions, the most . beneficial results are likely tci be
seen. It is gratifying also to relied, my Lords, that
at the veryenotnent,when our , Merchants are de-
prived of their trade With Russia, so large a portion
. ofthe Continent of. America is thrown open to their
-enterprise: Upon our late transadions with Russia,
my Lords, I do -not. mean to dwell ; 'every one of
your Lordshipainust have read his Majesty's Reply
to the aspersions of the. Court .of St. Petershurgh ; •
and every candid. and impattialimind. must. be satins
fled that the.conclud of England is justified Ma mane
nee as honourable: for. the Nadon, as creditable to
those who framed , that State Papete . but, my
Lords, I am anxious i to -.- extra& some !-good . out
of this evil, and I forebode a. benefit to arise
to thisi.Countrveeven from the clerelietion of Bes-
sie ; I hope; nip Lords, we shall become indepen• •
dent 'of tier forever. , It' the Legislature-of these
kingdoms will grant_.a.liberal bounty to encourage.
the cultivation of hemp and flax, both at home and
in the. British Colonieset we .may yet live to greet
the day of our quarrel,-with Russia, and.. even hail
with satisladion the inauspicious Treaty.of Tilsit.—
With respea to the other Powers of Europe, my
Lords, with thesingle exception of Sweden, they
are :prostrate at the feet of France, and until national
energy and spirit returnseehey must obey the man-
dates of their domineering master. But the conduel
and spirit of thejedependent Menarch of Sweden
merits every eulogium ; may he be successful to the
last, and may eve grant him all that aid so pointedly
recommended by:hiteMajesty,eand which such con-
stancy and courage deserves. I trust, my Lords, a
British' ferce will aid him in the Baltic, to defy his
f enemies, and that British gratitude :will compensate
any loss.heenay be.cibliged to. sutler, by transferring
to him some of these,. Colonies we can so well
spare, and must soon take from our joint foes. My
Lords, I wish it was possible • to animadvert with
satisfaCtion upon- the condud of the United States
of America ; local,kuowiedge, obtained, by me at
the early periods of the French Revolution, enables.
Me to form a very decided opinion with respell to
i that country, and I our sorry to say, my . Lords, I
cannot form a flattering one. I am, however, hap-
py to learn, by the tenor of the Speech, that it is
not the intention of his Majesty's Government to
concede one. point more to that illiberal and preju-
diced people. My Lords, we must make a stand
I somewhere; and where can we do it better than in
defente,of our seamen and our trade, welch they
unequivocally demand.. If America prefers French
alliance to British conuexion, it is net in your Lord-
ships' power to controul her.choice ; nor can you
prevent that war, which I do not with to see take
place; but which, if it does take place, my Lords,
I am confident, if persued by us with judgment and
reference to the American charader and situation,
no man need fear. With reaped to the affair of the
Chesapeake frigate, as a Naval. Officer, I may be
permitted to be a little prejudiced, and to hold an
opinion in some degree differing, perhaps, from his
Majesty's Government. It is ' not, however, my
. intention to dispute the accuracy of their Proelamas
' tion lately issued, nor the principle of respeCt which
is due to national ships of war, as applicable teethe
Governments and Nations of Europe; but as merit-
ed by Ainerica, it' all the detail'of that transatiloo
was before your Lorpships,. I am inclined to think
you yourselves would question. ' However my
.Lords, .while the American Navy is confined to a
few frigates, the compensation that has been made
may not be of material import ; hew fir it, may
affed us hereafter, time only can she*. , But, my
Lords, our chief concern is with France, with whom
some individuals would make a peace. I have taken
the liberty, my Lords, to write down some of her
sentiments' upon this subjetl, as desciibed in what
we may call her Official Paper, and wherein she in-
forms you, conformably to her.praaic.-e since the
earliest periods of her Revolution, of the.cotyluet
' she means to pursue, , and from which she has never
varied, but . from necessity alone. She proclaims,
my Lords, " That bhe will not only not 'lay
down her arms, bet will augment her force, un-
til she has conquered. the 'liberties . of the seas, the
first right of all nations." Her recommending to
us an armed truce, which she calls a peace, says,,
" It shall endureentil she chooses to proclaim anew
the principles of her Armed Neutrality, when she,
permits you to,proclaim your principlecof Maritime
Law." Now, my Lords, is this that which you are',
willing to accept as your Peace ? Have we already
forgot the Peace of Amiens ? Do WO wish to see
'her seamen all restored, and the pendants of, her
ships going, up, when ours will necessarily be coming
, down ? Nev'er will I . believe that- the good sense
of this Country will entertain the idea ..of Peace,
entil moderation marks the condutit of this Enemy,
for his professions are not worthy of refiedlion. I
am-glad to see a great commercial city think like
me, and I hope her opinions and example will be,
imitated by others. My Lords, although the antis
of Europe may appear on the side.ef France, I can.:
not believe their hearts are against this Country. If
we remain firm and unappalled, as recommended
by his Majesty and exemplified by,himsell, some
• balance may yet be preserved in Europe ; if we
I
yield, no man can foresee the consequences. Hav-
ing now, my. Lords, though in a very inadequate:
manner, animadverted upon the prominent featurei
of the Speech, I shall cern:hide my. Address to your.
. Lordships; iu what. may be termed a trite ._and come
won manner ; but it is neither, on that account,
the less appropriate. nor required. I. allude, my.
Lords, , to my herpes; that I May, receive the unani-
P mans couturrc:Uc© of your .Lord,hips to tili Mked.

am about to propose. Parliament was never 'as-
eembled, my Lords, at a period when the example
of unanimity would be so heneficial ; I therefore
solicit it, to mark to - the. Enemy- we are unani-
mous inipur opposition, to him ;' to manifest to the
,people of this Country we are unanimous; when
their first and most essential interests are concerned;
and to show to his Majesty that undiminished re-
sped and attachment so much his due; to do, our
duty, my Lords, in imitation of him, who through:
a long, arduous, but a glorious. reign, has so eorispi,
cuouAy done his. •
•

• His Lordship concluded by moving an Addreseto,
his Majesty, which, as usual, re-echoed the-senti-
ments of the Speech. . •
Lord KENYON seconded the .Address.-- He
touched on the topic; of the Speech, as hadibeen,
kw by the Noble Mover, but :he:- dwelt chiefly: on:
that passage which related to the Emigration of the;
:Court of Portugal to the Brazils, which hea.cunsider-
td
al a measure likely to produce the most beneficial.
effeas to this Country. He also adverted to uhr dis-
pute .With America, and applauded the spirit -with
which ,Ministers had concluded themselves in not
sutrendering the Naval rights of the Country to the
chinas of those people ; and .he conautled by hoping
that the House, by unanimously voting the Address,
would • shew to the Common enemy that they could
hope nothing from a disunion in our domestic opi
Mans. • • . • •

The Duke of NORFOLK said, he had hoped that
the proposed Address-would have been so framed,
that it might have met the unanimoussupport of the
Hense. He lamented that Mitiiiteri had not-done
that which upon the present occasion was so easy to
base-done, but that they had stepped ontargetheir
way to claim an unqualified: approbation from the
those of all they had done. Wishing much he
could. bring himself to' agree to the Address as it
stood, there was one .part. which he must objea to.
support in the form in which it now stood: he meant
that pit of it which went itranswer to his Majesty's
Speech relative to the Expedition 'to Copenhagen.
He ga'e one qualified approbation,of the measure:
It was not his intention to say at present it was
wrong; he would wait until they had the doeus.'
meats Woke the House which might enable hinito
judge of the propriety of it. If Denmark buten-
tered hto a hostile confederacy-against us, it might
4ave lx,en very right, and .Ite3 wished not to'
Wale, in the remotest degree, thatHthe: measure
might eat hereafter be justified; but 'at preeentthey
had neinformation before them on which they could
decide; and therefore he objeded Wise called upon;
while they remained in complete ignorance of the
merits of the measure,- to vote au unqualified ap-
. probation of it in the present stage.. He 'should
'therefore move an Amendment, whichmoold be by
leaving out the words in the Address relative to that '
subject. With reaped. to the other topics. of the
Speech, it was net his intention to say any thing
upon themat present ; oot meaning to pledge him-
self toan apptobation of the measures Of•Admipi-
stration by the vote he • should give that night, he
should reserve to himself the right of future dis-
cussion and examinatiop, when they should sepa-
rately come before the House.
Lord SfDit/04/TH rose, and expressed his ap-
probation ofahe Amendment proposed by We Noble
Duke. In common with him, he lamented that in
a case where Ministers might have passes,' an Ad-
dress which could have been unanitnously voted,
they had departed from pat obvious line,of
and called upon the douse absolutely to Vote what
they.must know some .of their Lordships conscien:-
tiously could not support. It might easily be: sup-
posed, that he. elladed to the Expeditien to C..lopen-
bagel). Most willingly he would have Waited until
• all the, documents which *could have slimed the
necessity of the measure had been before • the •
House, befere would. have.willingly pro-
nounced any opinion, upon it. Strong as he felt
the Measure required the most cogent reasons to-
justify it, and, aPparently harsh as
,it appeared
on the face .of it, Yet had any one proposed to
vote a censure on Administration for having adopt-
ed it, he would have been among the first to have
opposed such a ruction, until the reasons and motives,
cud proofs of the., necessity, had been adduced, by
which it was thought to be joint-red. But he could
not blindly give it his unqualified approbation. Pe--
airous as ho was of unanimity, and important as he
thought it ,at the present crisis to the best interests of
the country, yet there was a certain point of
quiesCence beyoud' which no Governmedt had a
. right to expo% nor any honourable man could
go., On this ground, therefore, lie must with-
hold his assent to that part of the Address. If he
were called upon to decide, with the, information
he at present possesSed, be must Say, it appeared.
to him, that the seizure of
,the Danish Fleet .could
in no manner bejustified.
:He had' looked into the
documents which had been referred to, and those do-
conients did not warrant the inference which it was
contended w to be drawn from them. His Majesty.
bad been advised to declare, that it was with greet
compumiliou and regret
.he felt hiMself under the ne-
cessity of resorting to coercive measures against the
Danes. If ft were clearly known to his' Majesty's
Miniaters that the Danes/ lied entered into a hostile
Confederacy against'
,us, the measure was perfeet'y'
• justifiable, and ought to haVe been executed without
say feelings of,regret, because it was then a measure
of just precaution, and warranted by 'their hostile
conduct. The Noble Lord who moved the Addrbss'
argued, it was evidept that the Danes were in hostile
• preparation to us, becaitie their warehouses were
. found full of naval stores, . I 2 it were so; their senti-
ments of hostility must have originated ranch earlier
than' Was attributed to thepl. Jr was not pretended
that they were hostile to us whiletttissia was in atifity
,p_L,
• and yet they'nerst have been if any arguirieat was to
:be &mil tram their navel- store,;, since those stores
could' not have been colleeted tiller the Treaty. of
Tilsit. The Peace of li6it stns iistictlon the gat of

{r 6E iixrtrviv

I July, and Lord Gam . bier entered the Baltic on Cie
September; so that either Denmark N.;111 1100ii¢,
whilteßussia wait in amity with es, and liptibeen pie
ledingstores for her hostile purposes, or no argument
•
was to• be drawn. from the poses ion of theM,:ee.
Bnt, in 'fat% chow did Lord G uthiet find ,theni
employed ? !The Danish ertisyat . that time was ;ice.
Htnelly in- Holstein,, ready to ,repel any eiplaiion of.
their territory .by the French, (Tally other .Power:.
Their Ships were laid ep in ordiunry, no weyeex,-
1; peEtipg: the attack which was made opotethem.,
None of theae.circumstanceeevinced any hostilejue
tentiens against, use It. had, however, been assume,
ed,- that the French once heiug in poaessioa of
Holstein, •that of • necessity tie. Wend of Zealand.
`mustfall into their hands. .He lied conversed whit_
many menebotheutval aed.militerye, and their opie
niers was, that the coeseauenee'did nqt by ,ely,inezir,:c
necessarily follow. ..In. theetnumer,. while , the 4ea,
remained unfrozen, the invading attuy,_could not pass.,
without vessels; or against the power of a fleet ; and,
in the winter. he understood the ice might he.auffie
cientlydrokee near the, shoreS nepreveptehe passage
of an.farmye If, the'refore, it, (04 nut riecessa,n7,
follow that the reduthote of lielsteet led the way
to the reduißion of Zealand,. the _Expedition was
not •juStitiable on the ground of self,delence ; for,
supposing-nohostility aaually W3f; 447,00 ;spies( eS
;by the Danes,and the French had succeeded in gait►-
. ing possession of Holsteinethe,Crowp prince ,would
naturally have, to England as the Ta;t ee.
from whence it could kivee derived protection and,
assistance. But if theeneasure were to he justified on
the ground.olnecessity, that tbeDenea,elthengh not
hostilely disposed toward us, might have ben fere-,
ed unwillingly to have turned theirNeVy egenisees,,
and that therefore we unwillingly attacked .ihein—es
In such case he shoukl say it was fit tohalailee
tureen the evil we expeaed to avert from ourselves,
and that,we were about to intlio on an enreetelin
party. It was with nations as with individuals. Wat
were not justified in following our own. interests at
, any price ; and balancing between she in. his
' mind there, was not that weight in layourof the
measure ,to warrant its -adoptinn. In . ehe.: firae
place, teethe honour of the chartaer of, the Be
Lis!, Navy, he would net. allow it to he said, even .
had the enemy possessed themselves of the 16 sail
of the line belonging, to. Denmark, that it
,wtitAd
have put this. country. into any s,ri9ul deeger.
fore the Battle of Tratalger and the teM g!ersiette
vielox' cs which had reduced-the maritime 1 ower •
our enemies, their navel force ttias much eraatcr than
the addition of the Danish nay/paid now ;
sand yet we never. Theught, eerselves.in sti It Innen/
nent danger to warrant. a departure front ,all the
rules of good faith and morality. Why now mere
than at other periods make i; a ground of ateLchicez
.an innocent and unoffending Aely.? iiut if ihe
metes. reasoned upon in justieteltioe was e tee it
was a better reason for attacktng Itt.S,ia than le:lkt
'mark. It was said, the necessity Lrose from ibq
stipulations of the Peace of Tilsit. How li..ppen,,Al
it then _that after the Peace of TilAt, a itussi4ll eetk
was suffered to min in the Mediterranean unite)/
tested ; nay more, that ,three Pktoisian ships of tour
• were suffered to pass threegh the British fleet:in the
Baltic. Did nut this look like letting the leeeeeed
offender eScape, andinfliding vengeance
fenceless ? The same force which attacked Coecu-
bagen might heed been more honourably and bene•
ticially employed against Croestadt,-4le knew.very
well what was the late Lord Nelson's o,..inion on ilia
'pradicability -of this. measure.; •and it it had been
adopted our force would not only have been applied
against the hostile Power, bui,we should have therea
by rendered a powerful diversion- in favour of
,our
Ally the KeUg of Sweden.' Oil these grounds, he
could not, with the preterit information he.bad on
• the subjea, vote for an unqualified approhatien of
the Expedition to Copenhagen. His Lordship tliers
adverted to other topics, and dwelt chiefly on tins
relative state of this Country with America he did
not
.think a War with 4merica so trivial a netlike as
was generally supposed ; he trusted it would be t.ete
verted, and he approved the condua of Governmeut
in giving up the right of search of ships of war be-t
he wished to know why it was not disclaiMed in this
first instance, since it was more than Probableethat
many Naval Officers would o& on the precedent of
Admiral Berkeley, unless they know that Govern-
,ment had-disclaimed that 'unauthorised a6t. , With
reap& to the queation of Peace, however desirahte
it might be, 'he was of opinion with a Noble
"Lord h.filtony who had truly said it was not to be
obtained by talking : they must be prephed for war;
and, in his opinion, a large efficient fbroe both for
Peace and War ought tube in readiness. lie Could
wish that some meesures should be adopted hyw hick
the country might. be put intti a state that, . at
.all
times,_ under very short notice, it ,could
.produce art
efficient armed,tbrce. The nature and state el the
times, in his opinion, required sonie such tum§ura
01,yigour. With that we might hope to obtain a
desirable Peace. 'His Lordship having treated on
these subjealsat length, sat down,,es.pre.ssing,his
probation ofethe Amendment at proposed by th*
Noble. Duke.;* • .
The Earl eIBERD.E.Ek supported,the At.LlN,as
ilea short speeeh, in Which -he took,e brief reeieet
of the several circumstances mentioned in the, Ad••dress from the Throne, and applauded the wis499l
i and vigour by which the recent acts of Government
had been distinguished.
,•
Lord GRENVILLE agreed in the terms of‘the
King's Speech, . that we were " in the crisis of ties
fate of the Country, and that the eyes of thtewoeld
were.fixed upon the British Parliament;", toreppon
their wisdom et thepresent moment depended the
existence of the British Empire, which had stood: a
thousand years,: and of the British Constitutioo,, the
pride and boast of human wixdomj -both hvl,tifigned
and: grown together,' and could only bolualogatned
and. preserved :by . the prudence • of atbe ineatinces
; which: l'arliatnent were now-Amu; to adopt.. tlato