The Sun.
London, England, 1863-06-02 00:00:00

of the parks. The distinction between the Ranger and the
First Commissioner of Works was, that the gatekeepers
were considered to be under the Ranger's department, and
the external boundaries came under the Office of Works.
There were 14 gatekeepers, who were paid something over
£l,OOO in the aggregate. With regard to the flowers, the
cost was very trifling, as they were reared in pits in the
vicinity of Kensington-gardens. As to the proposed ride
in Battersea-park, permission was given to builders and
contractors to deposit earth in a portion of the park to make
an embankment, and he proposed to form a ride upon the
surface, after the plan of Rotten-row. With regard to the
band in Regent's-park, he thought it right to have a stand
made for it; for he saw that a band had beeu performing
for several years in that park, which had been attended by
thousands of persons without the slightest inconvenience or
abuse of the authority of the Government. (Hear.) He be-
lieved the band answered the purpose very well, and he was
told the audience were delighted with it. The right hon.
gentleman then referred to the expenditure at Kew, and said
that the pot- ion of the conservatory already completed cost
£32,000, The expense of the wings, if they should be erected
according to the original design, would cost £14,000, and the
Government did not feel themselves justified in undertaking
that expenditure. He had bean asked what had become of
the spring in Hyde Park. He really could not tell how it
disappeared ; but in point of fact it was not a spring, and
when the gravel through which the water had percolated
was cut the water took another channel. As to the monolith
erected in the place, and which gave so much offence to the
taste of hon. members opposite, it was nothing else than a
loulder of granite from Cornwall, which was placed there
without any attempt at ornament. !le thought it excited
great admiration. (Laughter.) The cost of it was about
£2OO, which was almost entirely for the carriage of it from
Cornwall to its present position. He was rather astonished
to hear the hon. gentleman opposite complain of the band
which played in the Cambridge Enclosure, St. James's
Park, for he believed it was greatly admired.
Mr. PEACOCKE wished to put a question in the name
of the great riding interest, and that was whether the grass
would be opened to equestrians on the north side of the
Serpentine, and whether Kensington Gardens would be also
thrown open to them ?
Mr. G. BENTINCK said there was no greater farce
than was enacted year after year in committees of supply in
that house. The members of the Ministerial bench were
pledged to stringent economy, and the members of the front
Opposition bench, who desired to go across, were pledged
to still more stringent economy, and thus the whole thing
became a farce. He knew his appeal was all in vain, but
still he would ask was it right, was it decent, in a time of
great general distress, to waste thousands of pounds upon
the luxurious adornment of the metropolis, and in orna-
menting the park for the idle and indolent ? (Hear, hear.)
Mr. SCLATER-BOOTH wished to explain that he did
not object to the band, but to the place selected for the per-
formance, which, being close to the houses, gave offence to
a great many people.

Sir M. RIDLEY wished to know the cost of the boy and
dolphin in Hyde Park ?

Mr. COWPER said he was not able to tell the cost, but
he would make inquiry. With regard to opening the grass
on the north aide of the Serpentine, the experiment had
been tried last year, and it was found that it interfered
with the free enjoyment of persons on foot, and therefore
they only proposed to open the south side. And as to Ken-
sington Gardens, no arrangements could bo made for the
accommodation of equestrians in consequence of the road by
the bridge being thrown open to carriages. (Hear, hear.)
Lord R. CECIL said that he concurred in the observe
tions of the hon. member for West Norfolk (Mr. Bentinck)
that their committees of supply were a farce. Ireland was
starving, and Lancashire was being kept up at the public
expense, and yet there was an increase for " luxurious
adornment" of £200,000 ; the estimates in this respect hav-
ing been raised from £700,000 to £900,000.
Lord PALMERSTON defended the votes, and said the
reason why hon. members were so angry was, that the ac-
counts were so well managed and so carefully investigated,
that it was found they were not susceptible of reduction. If
they looked at the cost of the Bois de Boulogne, in Paris,
they would find that it was something like £l4O a day, or
£70,000 a year, nearly as much as the whole of the parks
of the metropolis. He believed that the enjoyment derived
by the people from the parks was an equivalent for the ex-
penditure. (Hear, hear.)
The committee divided. The numbers were—
For the vote
Against
Majority —4B
The vote was then agreed to.
On the vote of £36,444 to complete the sum of £46,444 for
the Houses of Parliament,
Mr. COWPER, in answer to a question from Lord
John Manners, said he had deferred coming to any deci-
sion with respect to the enclosing New Palace-yard from
the Clock Tower until the buildings on the southern side
of Bridge-street were pulled down, and which would be
finally cleared away by the end of this year, or at latest
in the course of next year. If the building was continued
along from the Clock Tower, it might be employed ad
vantageously for public offices. Nothing, however, would
be done for the present, and an opportunity would be given
to the house for deciding on whether it should be enclosed
or thrown open.

Captain KNOX inquired if it was intended to widen Par-
liament-street from the Treasury to the Houses of Parlia-
ment?

Mr. COWPER said the report of the committee on this
subject was still under consideration.
Col. FRENCH urged the necessity of something being
done towards improving the dining-rooms. Mr. Barry's
estimate was too high for the committee to take upon itself
to recommend that it should be carried out. It was useless
to complain of the contractor if he had not the means of sa-
tisfying the demands of hon. members. If the Government
were not disposed to move in the matter, it would be neces-
sary to bring the subject in a definite form before the house.
He did not wish to press the right hon. gentleman (Mr.
Cowper) for a reply then if he was not prepared to give an
answer.

Mr. HUNT asked the Chief Commissioner of Works if

it was possible to construct an underground passage from
the Clock Tower to the North side of Bridge-street, so as to
avoid the dangerous crossing at the end of Westminster-
bridge, for the convenience of hon. members and those at-
tending the Houses of Parliament.
Sir J. SHELLEY called attention to the state of the
stonework of the Houses of Parliament. He had been over
the building and minutely examined it, and unless some-
thing were done to preserve it, the ornamentation of the
houses would be entirely destroyed. Several experiments
had been tried, and all of them had failed but one--viz.,
Daines's process for vulcanising stonework. That process
had been favourably reported on by ➢lr. Sydney Sneirke,
Mr. George Gilbert Scott, and Mr. Arthur Ashpital. He
understood Mr. Daines had been told that he might go on
applying his own process at his own expense, but he (Sir
J. Shelley) thought that as so many had been assisted in
' their experiments at the expense of the Government, and
had failed, it was but right that the Government should
assist Mr. Daines with a grant of public money.
Mr. ROGERS expressed a hope that whatever alterations
were made in the refreshment rooms, nothing would be
done that would interfere with the proper ventilation of that
part of the building.
Sir M. PETO called attention to the decay observable in
the frescoes, and hoped that means would be adopted to
discover its cause and arrest its progress,
Mr. SCLATER-BOOTH wished to know if the item of
£6,530 for the Speaker's stables would cover the whole ex•
pense.

Sir M. RIDLEY asked for explanation with regard to
the twelve statues of British sovereigns in chronological
series which were to be placed in the Royal Gallery.
Mr. GREGORY pressed for a like explanation, and also
for information with regard to the progress of Mr. Dyce's
fresco. He wished to know if any representation had been
made to Mr. Dyce as to the necessity of carrying out the
engagement for which he had been paid. If Mr. Dyes were
n,,t, then he should be prepared to characterise his conduct
as scandalous. (Hear, hear.) In regard to the statues, by
means of which British art was to have been advanced, it
appeared to him that they were about to be monopolised by
Mr. Monroe and Mr. Thornycroft.

Mr. CO WPER admitted that it was desirable that some
means should be adopted to preserve the stone of the house,
but the report of the scientific commission, which had been
appointed in the matter, would not justify him in proceed-
ing with any of the plans which had been suggested for the
purpose. Ho admitted also that the report of the commis-
sion, as to the enlargement of the dining-room, deserved
attention, but he should require some time before deciding
on it. A tunnel across Bridge-street could only be made
when the embankment was being constructed ; and as to
the Speaker's stables, the whole expense would be covered
by the vote. Mr. Dyce had assured him that he was going
on with his work as rapidly as the state of the wall on
which he was engaged would allow ; and as to the statues,
of the six which had been sanctioned four were distributed
between Messrs. Brown, Woolmer, Thernycroft, and
Monroe. The remainder would be given to other sculp-
tors.

Mr, TITE, as a member of the committee to whom had
been entrusted the investigation of the decay of the stone
of which the houses of Parliament wero built, could state
that as yet the committee had been able to come to no con-
clusion upon the subject. It would seem, however, as it
the decay, after proceeding to a certain point, stopped.
Mr. CONINGHAM ridiculed the application of oil and
sulphur to stopping the decay of the stone.

Lord It. CECIL condemned the system of paying the
artists employed about the decorations of the house in ad-
vance. He had no doubt that if Mr. Dyce had not been
paid in advance ho would have been done long ago,
The ♦ote was then agreed to, the chairman reported pro-
gress, and the house resumed.

VICE ADMIRALTY COURTS BILL.
This bill passed through committee.
CAYMAN ISLANDS BILL.
This bill was read a second time.
ALKALI WORKS REGULATION BILL.

This bill Was read a second time.
CORRUPT PRACTICES AT ELECTIONS DILL.
On the motion for the consideration of the Lords' amend
ments,

Mr, HUNT moved that the house should disagree with

the Lords' amendment with reference to the clause throw-
ing the expense upon the boroughs.
Mr. VANCE seconded the motion.
The house divided. The numbers were—
For the amendment
Against it
Majority .. —2l
The amendment was therefore lost, and the Lords'
amendment was agreed to,

PORT ERIN HARBOUR (ISLE OF MAN),

This bill was read a second thno.
AFRICAN SLAVE TRADE TREATY BILL,

On the second reading of this bill,

Lord PALMERSTON said it was but right to the
United States Government to point out why this bill had
been introduced. It was well known that for many years
the African slave trade was sheltered by the protection of
the American flag. Last year the United States Govern-
ment, in the handsomest manner, agreed to a treaty by
which that protection was to be no longer given. (Hear.)
It was agreed by that treaty to give mutual right of search,
and constituting mixed tribunals for the trial of vessels
caught in the slave trade, and other means connected with
their adjudication. (Hear.) It was found that the extent
of the range to which these operations applied was not
sufficient, and this year the Government of the United
States agreed to a supplemental article which extends to
the neighbourhood of the Island of Madagascar the right of
search, which was confined in the first instance to the
narrower limits. It was but due to the liberality of the
United States Government to point out to the country load
the house that the bill which passed last year as a matter of
form, and without attracting sufficiently the attention of
the country—it was but just to that Government which had
behaved in so liberal a manner, that a matter of so much
ir:',2est to this country as this second treaty should be
marked by some attention being paid to it by that house.
(dear, hear.)
After a few words from Mr. Cave, Mr. Coningham, Mr.
Buxton, Mr. Torrens, and Mr. Kinnaird, all of whom ex-
pressed gratification at the measure,

The bill was read a secend time.
OFFENCES (SOUTH AFRICA) BILL.

This bill was re-committed, for the purpose of amend-
ment.

The New Zealand Boundaries and Courts of the Church
of Scotland Bills were read a third time and passed.
The Admiralty Court (Ireland) was wtthdrawn.
TIIE EXHIBITION BUILDING.

Lord PALMERS lON gave notice that he should move
the vote in regard to the purchase of the Exhibition Build-
ing on Thursday week, instead of next Monday, as he first
intimated.

The house adjourned at twenty minutes to two o'clock.

ST. THOMAS'S HOSPITAL.

A public meeting was held yesterday evening at
the Bridge-house Hotel to consider the insufficient
provision now made to fulfil the objects of the
charity of St. Thomas's Hospital, the unnecessary
delay in fixing the site for the future hospital, and
the equal unreasonable desire on the part of some
of the governors to remove the hospital to a dis-
tance from the poor of the neighbourhood. The
chair was taken by Mr. John Locke, MT., and
there were present Mr. Rendle, guardian and ves-
tryman of ►St. George's, Southwark ; Mr. Goddard,
vestryman of Lambeth ; Dr. Allen, Rector of St.
George's, Southwark; Dr. Evans, Dr. F. Jones,
vestryman of Christchurch; Mr. Freeman, guar-
dian of Camberwell ; Mr. Legge, member of the
Metropolita❑ Board of Works ; Mr. Vickars, Mr.
Newman, vestryman of St. Saviour's ; Mr.
Denny, vestryman of Camberwell; Mr. Park,
vestryman and Guardian of St. George's; and many
other inhabitants of the parishes surrounding the
locality in which the hospital has hitherto been es-
tablished,

The CHAIRMAN said the question to which the at-
tention
of the meeting was about to be called had
been for two or three years before the public. It
was one of great Importance to the inhabitants of
that densely populated district. It referred, as those
present la, ere aware, to the future site of St. Thomas's
Hospital. The rights claimed by the inhabitants of
Southwark, in regard to that hospital, were unde-
niable. The hon. gentleman then traced the his-
tory of St. Thomas's Hospital from the year 1213
down to the present day, and showed that by vari-
ous charters and grants the building and lands I
called St. Thomas's Hospital were granted for the
benefit of the poor of Southwark. He considered
it right to enforce this point. In The Sun
newspaper the other day it was stated that it was a
strong point in the consideration of the question,
and that if it could be established, as he (Mr. Locke)
had no doubt it could, that the poor of Southwark
had a right to the benefit of the hospital, it would
very materially affect the question at issue. But,
setting aside the legal rights of the people of South-
wark, he would refer to their social claims. St.
Thomas's Hospital had hitherto existed amidst a
dense population—upwards of 190,000 in South-
wark, and, joined to the borough of Lambeth, not
less than half a million. It was obvious that no
portion of the metropolis was better entitled to
retain that establishment among them. By the
charter of Edward VI. the hospital belonged to
the people of Southwark, and there was no pre-
text whatever for removing it from them. In
looking into the records of the City of London he
I found that as late as 1808 the Corporation upheld
its right and authority over the hospital; but a dis-
pute had arisen between the governors of the hos-
pital and the corporation, and it was finally enacted
by the 22d of George 111., chap. 77, that 12 gover-
nors should be appointed by the city to assist in
the governing of the hospital. He would say with
regard to the question more immediately before the
meeting, that a short time ago, at a meeting of the
governors of the hospital, his friend Alderman
Lawrence came forward and boldly reversed a
decision of the Grand Committee, and by that
reversal it was decided that the Grand Committee
could not carry or take the Hospital of St.
Thomas out of Southwark unless they had the
sanction of the whole body of the governors. But
when they found that the whole body consisted
of 208, and that only 50 attended the meeting
at which Alderman Lawrence carried his motion,
it was quite obvious that unless the meeting he
was then addressing aroused the dormant feeling
that seemed to affect all that concerned St. Thomas's
Hcspital, nothing would be done to advance the ob
ject they all desired to see accomplished. He
trusted that the people of Southwark would speak
out:and tell the Grand Committee, as it was called,
that they knew what their rights were, and that
they were determined to see them enforced. The
hospital had been taken down, and the question
was, where is it to be rebuilt ? It was for that
meeting, by their united voices, to decide that ques-
tion. It was for them to dstermine whether they
would assist those who wished to benefit the poor
inhabitants of Southwark, or whether they would
tamely submit to be overriden by the Governors of
St. Thomas's Hospital. (Cheers.)
Dr. RENDLE then moved the following resolu-
tion :

"That St. Thomas's Hospital, named in the
Charter of Edward VI. The House of Poor People
in Southwark,' having been established in South-
wark now more than 300 years as a place and house
for poor people to be there relieved end maintained,
and having before its removal afforded relief an-
nually to upwards of 40,000 persons, mostly of the
immediate neighbourhood, suffering from illness
and accidents—it is the opinion of this meeting that
the hospital should be rebuilt upon a site as near as
possible to the poorer population of the neighbour-
hood in which it has always been, and to which it
has done so much good service; and that in no case
should it be rebuilt more distant from the old hos-
pital than the site now occupied by Bethlem. that
behind Newington Church, or that known as the
Surrey Gardens."

He believed that if,the Governors had been pleased
t,) do so, they might have kept St. Thomas's
Hospital in perfect safety. The railway company
did not wish to touch the hospital, and what-
ever little injury was done the company was quite
prepared to remedy. They offered to build new
wards if the Governors had wished to have them
erected; but since the hospital had been taken
down it was their duty to have it erected elsewhere.
He strongly advocated the site on which Bathlem
Hospital now stood. There was no excuse at all for
removing the building into the country. As to the
proposition for dividing the hospital into two, one
part in town and the other in the country, he hoped
that that would never be entertained. In referring
to the list of governors, Dr. Randle observed that
the greater portion of the 208 governors of St.
Thomas's Hospital were merely honorary members,
and that the really governing body resolved itself
Into the grand committee, which was controlled by
the officials, and he then referred to the opinion