The Sun.
London, England, 1839-06-14 00:00:00

was such a scramble to get out of the House. A rat;
took place in all directions. Some went up stairs—some
in the lobby. litign the rusketook place be was at the
door of the House. All who did not wish to divide
were out, esteept the Member for Dundee, Sir Henry
Parnell. They were about to shut the door, and the
Hon. Member was nearly locked in. When he got I
out, he exclaimed, " Why did you shut the door in such
a hurry."—(Laughter.) He would just allude to the
remark that the Government considers the ballot an open 1
question ; and his answer to it is, that if they had no
salaries to take, then the argument would be fair. Bat
they all know that the House of Commons will not carry
any question which is not supported by Government.
He then read the following petition :
" To the Honourable the Commons of Great Britain i
and Ireland, in Parliament assembled—

" The petition of the Westminster Reform Society,
" Showeth,

" That bribery, corruption, intimidation, and per-
sonal nomination, were the means, by which, for many
years, a large majority of the Members were seated in
the House of Commons.

" That the Act the 2d Wm. 4. cap. 45, to Amend
the Representation of the People of England and Wales,
and other two Acts of the same Session, to Amend the
Representa►ion of Scotland and Ireland, were intended
to remedy these evils.

" That notwithstanding these Acts, bribery, corrup-
tion and intimidation prevail to as great an extent, and
in as great a variety as previously to the passing of the
said Acts.

" That, whilst the electoral body are willing to exer-
cise the franchise for the public weal, they have a right
to claim protection from intimidation and loss of pro-
perty in the honest discharge of their duties.
" That, as a principal means of preventing the first
evils, it is necessary that the present mode of taking the
votes of electors should be changed, and that instead
thereof they should be taken by Ballot.
" Your petitioners therefore pray that your Ho-
nourable House will take into your serious considetu-
tion the best means of putting an end to the evils
pointed out, by adopting as perfect a system as pos-
sible for taking the votes of the electors by Ballot.
" And your petitioners will ever pray."
Mr. DICKEN having seconded the resolution,
_ _

Mr. PROUT observed that the Ballot ought to have
been carried long ago. He recollected the great efforts
which were made in the year 1835, in order to bring
Lord John Russell in for the county of Devon ; and it
was then demonstrated that if the electors of South
Devon had the Ballot, they would have triumphed.
Sir W. Molesworth observed that there was nothing
more wanted than the Ballot, and the Tories would not
have seated a Member. The Liberals strenuously ex-
erted themselves on that occasion in order to return the
Noble Lord. He was one of a Committee which sat
in London, by which 4,0001. was raised ; and the
struggle on their part was in the belief that Lord John
Russell would advocate the Ballot, it being so very
clear to all Reformers that in the progress of Reform,
the Ballot was most essential.—(Hear.) The Minis-
ters must grant some of those measures which Refer-
mers required. But he was sorry to say that they had
not fulfilled the people's hopes. The Government was
called Liberal ; but he was afraid that there was very
little distinction between a Liberal and a Tory. The
word Liberal was a deceptive term. Sir R. Peel, he
dare say, will call himself a Liberal. The Tory
now is comparatively a Liberal to what he was. Lord
•Stanley and Sir James Graham call themselves Liberal.
But they, who call themselves so, ought to give their
support to a larger extension of the suffrage, a shorter
duration of Parliament, and the vote by Ballot. That
was the broad definition of the term. Had the Govern-
ment given their support to Sir H. Fleetwood's motion,
they would have deserved the name of Liberal.—
(Hear.) By taking that course they would have ob-
tained the support of all Liberals, and by making that
principle the ground of their political faith, should they
have appealed to the country, stating that they wished
that proposition to become law, and to have dissolved
Parliament, calling upon the people to support them, he
felt confident that upon such an appeal the constituen-
cies would have returned such a body of Reformers to
the House of Commons as to have enabled Govern-
ment to carry those measures which the people de-
mand.—(Hear.) But the Ministers have destroyed
public support. He hoped that on the decision of
Mr. Grote's question, they should see a very small
minority. He did not expect a majority, as the
Ministers would not make it a Cabinet question.
He wondered that the Government was so blinded, and

that they went on with so small a majority. They
were held in derision both by the Lord,: and the people.
Lord Morpeth had asserted that he did not mean to
remain any longer on sufferance. But why did he
not take a manly course, and at once maintain the
establishment of freedom? But if the Government
did not move on they must move out. The Tories may
then come in. They would not, however, be in six
months when they would have a Reform Administra-
tion. If Government would adopt a better system
they might remain in office for life.
Mr. SMITH remarked he was fearful that if the vote
by Ballot succeeded that such small constituencies as
Bridgewater, and several others, would still swamp the
large boroughs, as it would be in the power of wealthy
individuals to bribe the whole body. That was his
first impression. He, however, had no doubt but that,
when the measure was brought forward, care would be

taken to extend the elective franchise in the smaller
constituencies, so as to avoid such an evil.

My. Ksair said that in the parish of St. James, they
had tried the Ballot for eight ears. During that period
the Tories once exerted themselves, but they were so
thoroughly beaten, that they never made a second
attempt.—( Laughter.)
Mr. HILLES deprecated petitioning. They had tried

it often and found it of no use. He moved an amendment,
" That your petitioners, in taking the opportunity of
expressing their sentiments in favour of the Ballot, beg
leave to state, that they consider this measure, if carried,
would, in the present state of the country, be of little
avail to the further progress of reform, unless followed
by the important measures of the extension of the fran-
chise and triennial Parliaments."
Mr. J. ELLIs seconded the amendment.
The CHAIRMAN said that the) ought to confine
themselves to the notice of motion.

After a► long conversation, during which it was urged
that the other questions might be brought forward as
substantive motions, the question was put, when the
amendment was lost, the mover and seconder being
alone in its favour.

Mr. GHAGAN thought it singular that Mr. Hilles
should argue upon the folly of petitioning, and then offer
one himself.

Mr. KEstP said that when Mr. Grote introduced his
motion, Lord John Russell remarked that he (Mr.
Grote) made a great fuss about the Ballot, when there
was no petitions for it. The consequence was, that in
the next Session, a great many were sent in fop the
Ballot.

The CHAIRMAN put the resolution, when the pe-
tition was then agreed to unanimously. It was
further resolved that it should be signed by the Chair-
man, on behalf of the meeting ; that it should be
intrusted to Mr. Leader to present ; and that General
Evans be requested to support its prayer.