The Sun.
London, England, 1839-06-21 00:00:00

had existed in England centuries ago.—(Hear, bear.)
What was the systeM of the Universities of this coun-
try ? Let him look to the inscriptions on their ancient
wails, from which he must draw the inference that the
object of those Universities was to increase the educa-
tion known at that time. The Hon. Gentleman had
asserted that it was part of the custom of the realm of
England to let education alone. It might be very well
that the speculators in railways should be left to them-
sdves, but it did not follow from that that human
knowledge should be left alone. Let the Hon. Mem-
ber turn to the courts in the neighbourhood, and he
would then ask him whether they were not founded on
a system of centralisation of justice.—( Hear, hear.)
The Hon. Gentleman had referred to China ; in
that country there was something worthy imitation.
What had maintained that country in its present state
but its system of education ?—(Hear, hear.) In that
country persons were promoted to offices in the State
in consequence of their attainments. The same system
had been adopted in Persia, and he could not see why
it should not be adopted in all other countries. He be-
lieved the day would shortly come when that would teke
place, and it would be a happy day for this country.
The Hon. Member for Kilmarnock, adverted to what he
termed the despotism implied in a system of inspection.
Now he (Mr. E.) would ask how did it follow that in-
spection implied the exercise of a despotic, or arbitrary
power ? Were there not already in this country in-
spectors of police, inspectors of prisons, and superinten-
dents in various forms ? but yet those being again sub-
ject to the inspection of that House and of Govern-
ment, were deprived of any despotic character they
might otherwise possess. In like manner the House and
the Government would inspect the proposed inspectors,
" Custodes ipsos custodiet." The Hon. Member for
Kilmarnock made his next objection on a religious
ground. On the very threshold of his speech he laid it
down that education in this country should be under the
superintendence of the Established Religion ; and in
support of this opinion he quoted some barbarous law
Loin of a barbarous age—namely, that education was
a " chose spirituelle." But the Noble Lord opposite
would maintain that it was a " chose ecclesiastique,"
making the connexion of education more with the
Church than with religion, and being more anxious that
the people should receive the dogmas of the Church
than the spiritualities of religion. The Noble Lord
talked about the Eucharist, Baptism; and other sacred
subjects, which might with more propriety have not been
brought into this House for discussion ; but it was clear
that he intended to connect education with religion,
less than with the secular discipline of the Church.
lie (Mr. E.) meant nothing illiberal. He only inferred
his feelings from the context of the Noble Lord's argu-
ments and those feelings, namely, that education should
be connected with the Church rather than with religion.
That, be (Mr. E.) was very much afraid, was at the
bottom of that tender consideration for the souls of the
people of which they talked so much. To show that
education worked well on the Continent, when sepa-
rated from religious superintendence, he would refer to
the interesting work of Mr. Chambers, and the writings
of other gentlemen. Those authorities showed that the
system produced the greatest harmony abroad. Again
he (Mr. E.) would ask the Noble Lord, had the Go-
vernment system of education diminished religion in
Ireland ? or whether, on the contrary, the documents
that had been laid before the House did not show that
religious feelings had been extended, and he might
almost say, perpetuated by it ? A document he then
held in his hand would show, that the system in Ireland
now tended more to the promotion of true Christianity
than the much lauded system of teaching pupils their
Catechism and the Creed before they had imbibed the
spirit of religion. But he would not longer refer the
Noble Lord to Ireland, with which he must be so well
acquainted. He would rather refer him to England,
and to his own neighbourhood, to show how well the
system advocated by him (Mr. Ewart) proceeded. In
the town of Liverpool,. the inhabitants of which
exceeded 200,000, there were two schools conducted
on the principle of giving education equally to all
religious denominations without distinction or pre-
ference of any sect, and their success had been
most gratifying. In testimony of their success he would
refer to the evidence of a converted opponent, who
had examined for himself, being conscientiously de-
termined not to judge until he bad carefully investi-
gated. Those schools were under the superintendence
of the Corporation. The testimony which he held in
his hand stated that the writer first visited the school in
the north-end of the town. He found that the head
master was an Independent ; one assistant was a mem-
lee. of the Established Church ; the other was a Roman
Catholic. The three taught together in the greatest
harmony. There was the greatest opposition made at
first to those schools, and that principally, he (Mr. E.)
regretted to say, by the Clergy of the Established
Church. These Reverend Gentlemen absolutely used
to teach the children on their way to the schools, and
they became at last so violent in their opposition to
the children, that the orthodox people were obliged to
send for the police to conduct the children safely to
school. But a short time sufficed to dispel the delu-
sion that had been raised against the schools. The
benefits produced by the schools soon changed the
minds of th prejudiced, and the general conviction at
present amongst the people of Liverpool was, that the
schools which were open for all were for the benefit of
all, and that it was quite possible for a system of sound
religious instruction to 'be consistent with a sys-
tem of national education. The other school
according to the testimony he held in his hand, was in
the south end of Liverpool, and contained between 709
and 800 pupils. - The head master belonged to the
church of Scotland, the second master was a Baptist ;
the third a Church of England man, and those like their
contemporaries in the north school, proceeded in their
duties in the highest harmony. Of the pupils there were
of the Church of England 294; Roman Catholics 323 ;
of the Church of Scotland 12 ; Independents 15 ;
Baptiste 20 ; Methodists 48 ; Presbyterians 6. He
LMr. E.) would say that the success of the system in
iverpool furnished an almost unanswerable argument
in favour of the present scheme.—(Hear, hear.) And
he would call upon Honourable Gentlemen opposite to
satisfy themselves, as the late conscientious opponent,
but now strenuous supporter of the system had done,
by going to examine for themselves, and then they could
not repel the evidence of their own senses in its favour.
These schools were in fact more careful to incul-
cate theological knowledge and to inforce Bibl:eal
truth than some of those Colleges which confer-
rol a degree for B.D.—(Hear.) When he (Mr
E.) heard so much of opposition from the on.
Gentleman before him on the ground of religion
he was afraid he must attribute it to a determined
feeling to maintain the ascendancy of the Established
Church.—(Cheers.) This was his honest and sober
conviction—(Cheers)—and such he believed would be
found to be the conviction of the people of this country.
—(Cheers.) He (Mr. E.) was determined in matters
of education to maintain the supremacy of the State
over the Church.—( Cheers.) And he trusted the time
would soon come, when it would be impossible to gain-
say such a doctrine without being accused of attacking
the very bulwarks of freedom. Ha maintained that it
is the first du:y of the Sate to educate all its subjects
equally, irrespective of religious opinions—leaving reli-
gion what it ought to be, a matter exclusively between
Mtn and his Maker. In connexion with this kind of
education, he thought the Government ought to throw
open to the people public institutions, libraries, galleries
of art and other spectacles calculated to refine and etc-
vete their minds. Notwithstanding the futile and some-
whet embittered opposition of the Hone Gentleman
opposite—(Laughter and cheers)—he (Mr. E.) hoped
the day was not far distant, when the people of this
country would be brought up by the State in a system
of physical, intellectual, and religious education.—
(Cheers and ironical cheering.) He warned the Hon.
Gentleman against the animadversions of future genera-
tions. In conclusion, he would say, that though the
present scheme was somewhat stealthy, and also
sc tray, it would be hereafter looked upon as
the glory of the present age, and whether
the future destinies of England should set in sunshine or
in shade, the origin of the scheme of national education
in the present time would be regarded as one of the
brightest spots in our history.—(Cheers.)
Mr. PLUMPTRE considered that the proposed
mode of education would never give permanent satisfac-
tion to the people or the clergy of this country. What
security had we that the Privy Council Board would
be any, or all of them, members of the Established
Church, or that they might not be as ignorant and as
unworthy sons of the Established Church as was her
Majesty's Prime Minister, who it was well known and
well recollected had lately asserted in another place that
lie could discover little difference between the tenets of
the Church of England and those of the Church of
Rome? This subject required the most grave and de-
liberate consideration of Parliament. He thought no
original grant should be voted on so important a subject
as national education until a Bill for that purpose
had proceeded by regular stages through both Houses
of Parliament. He might be told that similar votes,
such as the vote for the College of Maynooth and the
vote for National Education in Ireland had been passed
by the House of. Commons alone. If that were the
case he thought more was the pity. Those who charged
them with uncharitableness charged them unjustly, and
reasoned illogically. It had been said that because the
country took advantage of Roman Catholic sinews and
of Socinian gold, that therefore they were bound to
give them th means of education ; but he would say
that parties desirous of availing themselves of the be-
nefits derivable from a residence in this country were,
bound to obey its laws and to contribute to its taxes,
but the Government was not on that account called
on to support them in their religious or political opi-
nions, however wild they might be, as it would be open-
ing the door to anarchy and error. Much had been
said of Gentlemen on that side of the House presuming
to judge others; such a charge came with a very ill grace
from those who imputed motives in the manner the
Hon. Member for Liskeard had done. He wholly
denied the charge, but he had a right to form an
opinion for himself, and he was a wise man who desired
to form his opinion aright from true and legitimate
sources. He would say that the man who denied the