The Sun.
London, England, 1830-02-06 00:00:00

and its decisioo gave his title a sanction in the eyes of the
people. They looked on that decision as the expression
of the general will. The island of Terceira is a military
garrison, which has declared for the young Queen Maria,
but it is a small island, far detached from Portugal, and
not in the slightest degree influencing that kingdom.
Would that fact authorise us to force a Sovereign on the
people of Portugal ? We desire that she may ascend the
Throne in obedience to her father's will; but if the people
of Portugal will not support her claim, it will fall to the
ground. There were great doubts whether Dun Pedro bad
the right to give the crown to his daughter ; and all the Por-
tuguese lawyers have decided in favour of Don Miguel.
Higher considerations than those of mere personal character
must rule the course of policy which a country like this
will follow. We are not authorised to force a rejected
Sovereign on any country. Don Miguel is in no shape sub-
ject to our authority. If we once commence a war of
opinion, we can never circumscribe its scope. My Noble
Friend, however, is so anxious, that he asks why we
have not fitted out an armament to prevent Spain from
invading Mexico? Now really he must take leave to
say, that if the principle of interference required by his
Noble Friend was to be carried into full operation, it
would involve this country in wars with almost every
nation with which it was allied or bound by treaties.
The Noble Lord (Palmerston) had, however, asserted
that the Government of this country should have inter-
fered to have prevented the invasion of Mexico by the
Spaniards from the island of Cuba. Now he recollected
very well that his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Canning),
at the time he put forth those able and powerful State
Papers which were demanded from him in the fulfilment of
his duty as Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, always
admitted the right of Spain to fit out and undertake any
expedition she pleased for the conquest of her Colonies, al-
though he denied to other nations the right of interference,
which might be exerted, not for the purpose of re-assune-
ing the legitimate authority of the Parent State, hut fur
the purpose of assisting either party, as it might suit
their interests to obtain an advantage over the other.
This he was satisfied was the tenor of
.the principle laid
down by his Right Hon. Friend, and recognised by the
House. But then the Noble Lord asserts, that although
the right of interference was not exercised by the Govern-
ment to protect Mexico from the Spaniards, it was exer-
cised on a former occasion to preserve Cuba from the at-
tacks of the Mexicans.—(Hear, hear.)—Did the Noble
Lord, however, not understand that there might be some
circumstances so peculiar, and some considerations of such
overwhelming importance, with regard to the connections
sad relations of England with the Isle of Cuba, as to jus-
tify a great departure from the rules which governed other
portions of her policy, and not to be defended on general
principles.—(Hear, hear, hear.)—The Noble Lord ought
to have a thorough understanding of every thing con-
nected with the peculiar situation of this country sad
Cuba before he ventured to illustrate his argument by
a reference to the case of Cuba. On every ether oc-
casion he repeated that the Government had invariably
governed itself by the principles which it had recog-
nised ; and although they had not, as the Noble
Lord seemed to thick they were bound to do, gone to
war for the purpose of preventing every act of which
they might disapprove, yet he trusted it would be found
that they had not done any thing to forfeit the character
or compromise the honour or station of the country. The
Right Hon. Gentleman concluded by observing that he
should not enter further into the various topics connected
with our foreign policy, because the Address did not
pledge the House in any manner to approve of, or adopt
it ; and if Hon. Members would hut suspend their opinions
until the papers connected with it were before them, they
would have ample opportunity of expressing their opinions
on its soundness and propriety.—( Hear.)
Lord PALMERSTON, in explanation, denied that he
councilled war, as the Right Hon. Gentleman asserted.
On that point he had been quite ru;sconceived. All he
wished to convey, was, that by assuming a firmer and more
decided tone, the country, without the slightest risk of
war, might have secured advantages of which it has been
deprived.
Mr. C. GRANT said, his Right Hon. Friend seemed
to have wholly mistaken the observations of his Noble
Friend, who merely stated, in the most temperate manner,
that Ministers seemed to have made a distinction in the
conduct they pursued towards Spain and Mexico. He
said it was reported- that when Spain was preparing to
attack Mexico, the latter, in order to protect herself, meant
to have invaded Cuba, but England forbad the expedition.
His Noble Friend did not state that this was really the
case, bat he asked whether it was the fact? And he
argued, that as England saved Cuba from Mexico, so she
ought to have saved Mexico from Spain. The Right
Hon. Gentleman said the interests of England rendered it
necessary to prevent the invasion of Cuba. Now he
would demand whether there were no British interests
connected with Mexico? He would contend that there
was a very great balance on the side of Mexico. His
Noble Friend did not call on Ministers for interference;
but he complained that interference was resorted to in a
single instance—that there was a partial interference—
an interference in favour of those who hated freedom.
Lately, however, they had been told that that illustrious
usurper had been misrepresented—that he had had the mis-
fortune to become the innocent victim of calumny. But
that trial, it appeared, had passed, and, from what had
been said in another place, to which he must not allude,
Don Miguel would, no doubt, shortly be called to take hie
seat among the Sovereigns of
uci
Europe.
rr ---Inum ego ldas
mire sedes, ducere nectaris
Snccos, et ascribi quietia
Orclininus patiar Deorum,"
was the languge they wound next hear, he supposed, with
regard to Don Miguel.—(Cheers.) It might be true, if
they pleased, that France had secured herself,—that
Russia had secured herself,—hat what had England ? A
party to the Treaty of the 6th July, 1827, and, as it
was rumoured, about to place a prince of their own coun-
try on the throne of Greece, Englishmen had, nevertheless,
scarcely secured to themselves one feeling of gratitude.
Nay, they were reproached with being parties to another
and a very different kind of policy. How it happened
that, throughout Europe, this feeling existed toward Eng-
land, it was not for him to say. Ile hoped there was no
foundation for it ; but when the promised papers were
laid upon the table, they should be able to judge. For the
present he must be allowed to say, that if it were possible
to allow Greece to choose her own Monarch, she should
not be interfered aa ith in her choice. If that were not
possible, then came the more important question, was the
Government of Greece to be a free constitution, or was
it to be a despotism ? He did not press for an answer to
this question now, but he felt assured the House would
consider it a most important question, and one that must
be satisfactorily answered.—(Cheers.) if the Govern-
ment of Greece were to be a despotism, then the worst
suspicions of Europe would be confirmed, and it would
he proved that, although Englishmen were known to
abhor despotism in any shape, an English Ministry had
consented to establish despotism elsewhere, in obedience to
the wishes of a power which dreaded the appearance of
freedom in any country, however distant.—(Cheers.)
Lord JOHN RUSSELL could not help expressing his
satisfaction that there was nothing in the address which
pledged the House to approve of the foreign policy of
Ministers. The Right Hon. Gent. said, " what would
we have .had them do in the war between Russia and Tur-
key?" They had, said the Right Hon. Gent., given their
advice, which was all they could do. Perhaps so ; but,
for his own part he would have given that advice in a very
different tone. He would have told Turkey that if she
did not agree to the terms offered, the treaty of the 6th
July should be immediately carried into execution without
her consent. From all that he had heard of the Turkish
cabinet, he believed that if this tone had been adopted, it
would have produced :the desired effect, and that peace
between the two Powers would have been concluded, not
in the plains of Adrianople, but before the Russian army
had reached Vat na.—(Cheers.)—Russia then would not
have been in the poesession of the key of Turkey, nor com-
pleted that view of aggrandizement which it was evident
had been her policy ever since the days of Catherine.--
(Hear.)—With respect to Portugal, if we had never in-
terfered in the affairs of that country, it would have been
easy for us, like America, to acknowledge Don Miguel as
king de facto ; but we bad given and received pledges,
and then we had withdrawn ourselves entirely,—saying,
:ivent an unarmed body of the Queen of Portugal's subjscts
tthhedrywairnrgel iosurirsoetltien‘g,
wet luifactNuaoltly cionnteternfet,.ewdittho tir,ue:
proceeding to Terceira. Ile could entertain no doubt of
eixllie;glaailnitywohfytihtislsrtaespp;reatnenddiefdariz one
elsethe injustice
could, letan4 that the
Admiralty order that an attack was about to be made upon
Terceira. 'Was this true? Was it any thing like true?
Was not Terceira filled with the Queen's friends, and were
not the unarmed men, who were proceeding to Terceira,
also friends of the Queen ?—(lltar.)—lt was his firm
belief that the character of this country had suffered
greatly by the late transactions, both with respect to Por-
tugal, to Turkey, and to Russia.
Sir JOSEPH YORKE said, he was so extremely
hoarse that he could hardly make himself heard, and that
the very eloquent speeches they had just heard must be
his apology for attempting to speak. Eloquent speeches
were very well calculated to excite the House to take part
in any war, and he was not surprised that, in times past,
eloquent speeches had produced that effect. The country,
hoWover; bad paid very dearly for ;such spevelte,---(Heur,

and laughter. )—He gave the Noble Duke at tinimaa6l
the Government great credit for keeping them ort.4'e
,var ; and he begged to remind the Hon. Gentlemen 801
vere so fond of the " high tone" in foreign policy, that
eats to that " high tone" that the country was incleble.
or its enormous debt.—(Hear, and laughter. )-e•lf.et
rusted that Ministers would drop the " high tone ;" *ea
hey would look at what their predecessors had done, eu e
.ow the country had been bamboozled out of its mout
le trusted that Ministers would think of these thing., and
Ace warning. He recollected very well, when Mr. Via.
,ing came down to the House and proposed that we sheu
pend that 2,000,0001. for the sake of keeping Portage
n order for a little while ; that the Hon. Member for ,
Aberdeen was the only person who said, " Wait a 1;0,4
don't be in a hurry ; adjourn the debate till next vfe"...,"
:nd, in the mean time, turn the matter over in Y.
minds, or else, gentlemen, depend upon it, you'll get yeur.
delves into a confounded scrape." Such was the language
of the lion. Member for Aberdeen—(Hear, and laughreL)
—and it did him very great credit. The Noble fear
(Palmerston) below him complained that we had 0,7
fered and prevented the Mexicans from sending an exPal:
Lion to Cuba. For his own part he believed that if cirri
expedition had been allowed, there would have been a
counteraction, and that Cuba would have been in I"
' possession, not of the South Americans, even if kg
had gained it, but of the North Americans. He I‘ll
in no state secrets, and though his Right Honourable
Friend (Mr. Peel) below him, was, yet a Cabinet Miuiste t
could not set himself off to great advantage as be (Sit
J. Yorke) could set him cff—(Hear, and laughter)-"4r
this very reason;—that a Cabinet Minister was not allao:7A
to tell all he knew. Now as to the Address, he be4h
leave to say, that he quite concurred in it, although the
Speech said nothing about Ireland. Why should it? I:1
Hon. Member for Clare (Mr. O'Connell) had threateln
for some time past, to make a speech upon Itiand, .8e",
what necessity was there for two?—(Hear, and laeghre"
He had observed that Hon. Member last night real
something,—a state paper, no doubt,.—and the instant I.''
Right Hon. Friend (the Chancellor of the Excheqeer)
mentioned Ireland, down went the paper the Hon. MO'
ber for Clare was reading—off went his spectaclesere?
went his hands—open went his mouth,—and he ejace;
lated something about " cases in the desert."—(Hear eau
laughter.)—The Hon. Member for Clare had told theta
that some of his countrymen were subsisting on Ares
halfpence a day. Why, the Government could not OP!
that ; and if the fact was so, these Irish paupers, 81,(46,_
mighty beautiful strong Paddies—(Loud laughter)--aeli
Hon. Member called them, must not come over here app'
eat up our potatoes.—( Hear, and laughter.)—For his 00;
part, he was glad that Ireland had not been mentionel la
the Speech from the Throne. Why should Ireland be
ways mentioned as if it were an independent corral)
though it might contain all these green !rallies which the
Honourable Member for Clare was always blarneying:l
omen countrymen about?—(Cries of " Oh ! Oh l"
laughter.)—He must treat these subjects with sound I"),
sense—(Cries of " hear, hear")—and must not be
away by eloquence. He was sure the Honourable glea•
ber fee Clare had solid sense enough, as . well al
eloquence. Now that we had consigned to the Wl'
of the Capuleta all differences between Catholic /0"i
Protestant, he did think it was time to talk rata:
ally about Irish affairs. And now, for the curter'',
question. Tha Hon. Member for Abingdon (Mr. Pr
?
berly) said to them—" I will give you such sterling tie
as never existed before in this blessed
and laughter. j—Now he was well acquainted with the
gessuity of the Hon. Member for Abingdon. He kee"
that that Hon. Member ouuld contract at the proper tiOedi
and cut his c at according to hie cloth, as well or belt'
then any body else. Indeed, he -believed that the IP"'
Member had made a large fortune bye, doing ; but Ilia/.
the Hon. Member fur Abingdon could produce-such-111rte
as he promised, he must be allowed to doubt. Did,
Hon. Member mean to say that he could work V'
sterling paper of his to the consistency of pasteboard, a".,
then cut it up into coin, with the Sovereign's heed L-
one side, and his own tail on the other ?—(Loud
ter, and cries of " Oh, oh.")—lf that were meant
cheer, it was not at all well executed—(Hear, and leah",
ter;)—and if it were meant as a groan, he must say /lea,
he did not see what had called for it. The Hon. 111.e1.1;
bey ir
had said, in a Parliamentary way, that he would
then paper which should be as good as any inetall:
good as gold, silver, or pietism; and, on the other bands
4
(Sir Joseph Yorke) said, in a Parliamentary way
that he did not believe it. Bet as to these complik
about the currency. 'Now the Duke of Wellington BAOI
last night, in the House of Lords--(Laughter, and ale.% is
" Order")—" Really," continued the Gallant Member,
Ilma
ihytansione
oaauortnt
ehmne
etypeorievillaretpcnriseaoweexewi Liri As
II
listentyt l.
supposei naHrtoyowtthitelehivnaevgtro:wi
voice
will
owfda luot
aesaayci
charmer,
ors
suit, et)
rey
iv,
holding a high official station,—l suppose there is notb'e.W
disorderly in that—(Hear, and laughter,)—it was ewe '1•1;
'weanhdadbdyutrhinagt
thpeeßs person, that
rteisstartictwinen
Will
0$;°;,::
65,000,000/. in circulation, which is upwards of a till;°,l
satisfy gentlemen ? If it will not, Ido not know 4'l-
- The Hon. and Gallant Member conclude! ,beld
saying, that if the House and the Government proceft„
with caution, he had no doubt all distress would ttt
moved, and that the Ministers would have no OCOaaidt:t
walk about in suits of deep mourning, with white pow
hankerchiefs to their eyes.—(Hear, and laughter.)
Dr. LUSHINGTON said he could not help obser.ll4i
that every year the tone of our Government became 10,1
and lower in regard to the foreign relations of the couatuo
Averse as he was to war,—much as he should deprereo
war in the present condition a the country, yet he 'l,
convinced that the only way in which we could pre/B'l4
ourselves in peace was to hold up our heads, and cett„
ourselves with courage, with honour, and with good fait
The conduct of England towards Portugal had not tee4o
that which became a great nation. It would have le •
better if we bed continued to maintain a strict n
eu
which would not have prevented an act of hospital's
towards Donna Maria. lie feared, however, that Cala
had been shown to Dun Miguel, and that his successii ineh,„
the throne of Portugal would be recognised. The Brio
Hon. Gentleman said that there was no such passage(
time Speech. True, there was no such passage; but .V 1
other meaning was intended to be conveyed by the intilr
tion that his Majesty had not yet deemed it expedieur of
re-establish our ancient relations with Portugal, but
the embarrassments arising from the interruption!: c•
creased his Majesty's desire to effect a termination of
evil? With respect to our conduct towards the Pig
States of America, he (Dr. Lushington) could not if°
upon our vacillation, and upon our anomalous rela9r„k
with them, without shame. He could not forget 14
the late Lord Londonderry had circulated proclameo4.
throughout the Spanish colonies, that if they would tbreee
of their allegiance, Great Britain would render theia;
fectusl support. What was done next? In 1E44 ,i
same Nobleman put his signature to the most infidel
treaty which had ever disgraced this country, where,
England was made to express her earnest desire that l'o
Spanish Colonies, which were endeavouring to vindk.t
their liberty at our bidding, would retorts to their 5•1
giance to Spain. On the subject of Cuba the Right HI
Gentleman had expressed himself doubtfully; he was t 01
glad of this, and he should be glad if, eventually, Ete:l'
should come out of this question fairly.
Mr. MABERLY begged to make a few observation.)
reply to what had been said of him, whilst absent, 114
HOIL and Gallant Member (Sir Joseph Yorke). 104
Hon. and Gallant Member, with reference to what
fallen from him (Mr. Alaberly) on the preceding nigh 4
lative to his plan of a paper currency, had said that he vr,
not believe it. The Hon. Member ought to have Avii
till he had heard the details of time plan before he spclOvii
it with such a want of courtesy. But the lion. Me ore
had made some other remarks. If he meant by those ,)l
marks any insinuation with respect to his (Mr. Alabert
character and station in life, he hurled back the insinuti
with the contempt it deserved. The Hon. and GO,
Member had hardly kept within the line of Perliarmactol,
decorum ; but, perhaps, as the Hon. Member was i 3 lc/
habit of indulging in a vein of irony, the House migha:ol;
have been su alive to the impropriety as in the case of If
other Member. The lion. Member might not be pers ti4f,
but if he was not personal, what did he mean ? He (Fp(
Mahem ly) felt called upon to niche there observation',
no Gentleman could say that he ought to sit quiet 00
what had fallen from the Hon. Member. ed3l
Sir J. YORKE said, that if he had used any expre ;0
which were disorderly, the Speaker would have calla Vta,"
to order. lie (Sir Joseph Yorke) had positively
the Hon. Member say last night, that he would furoi 70,
paper currency that should be quite equal to a neL4
currency. The lion. Member now gets up and 8
did 1 mean to be personal ?" I have no Ifeeitatioe
saying
would have called me to order, and there arc Honour'?
mean to
tobe you,p erso,Siailr,; ad
ifnl thoadthe beenHopuesres,o
ntalfla,t
',I iends about me who would have tugged me by the e
laugh.)—l am sorry if 1 did use any expreuii,
offensive to the Hon. Member, for whom I entertain' .
mere respect. otl
Air. MABERLY—I beg to assure the Hon. and w
!ant Member that I am perfectly satisfied. tJ
Mr. SADLER observed, that be had had no op? 1
eity yesterday of delivering his sentiments, nor shoo'
'de so now; Lad it not been for the Bight Hun. a