The Sun.
London, England, 1839-02-06 00:00:00

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;he last step. I am happy to see her Malest)? has I necessary. The chang.• in the negro population, must ne-
annOunced her intention of enforcing attention to this ; lut I cessarily call for measures to give it ita full effect,
what is the intention of the President of the United States ? secure is lull advantage, and make society safe, and
Pers ms have crested with cannon and with muskets be- likely to remain so. The Noble Duke in adverting to that
longing to the United States as invaders of her Mejestt 's part of the Speech which .it was impossible to re-
dominions, and this cannot be prevented by the authorities ; grrl without great concern and regret—that part
of the United States. Why, my Lords, the Spanish Go. 'of the Speech which unfortunately referred to the state of
vernment could prevent Portuguese troops from passing Canada, whiist he praised and upheld that part of the
throng 1, be'l. eon:dry—and there is no doubt that in any Speech expressing her Majesty's determination to maintain
e 'reountry—(here we could not catch what fell from the noble her authority in these countries, said he could wish that he
Duke.) But, my Lords, here it is done for the very par- had seen some corresponding measures of vigour to carry
pose of carrying on the war, and the Government sit down that deterinhiatiou into effect. Unquestionably the state of
quietly and take no measures whatever to prevent it. I things exiiting on the frontier of North America was
now come to the last part of her Majesty's Speech, iii greatly to be deplored, but from what he had sects • and
which her Majesty laments the persevering efforts that have known in other parts of the world, be did not look upon it
been made in some Darts of the country, to excite Ler sub. with any very great surprise. The Noble Duke had re-
jects to disobedience and resistance to the late; and to commended that corresponding measures of vigour should
recommend dangerous and illegal practices. It is but too true be pursued te enable the Government of tho Qacen to
thatpersonshave endeavouredto excite her Majesty's subjects. repel the acts which had been committed. What
'My Lords, discussions have taken place in Nis House on measures the Noble Duke alluded to, he ( Lord
former occasions ass the rights of persons to assemble to. Melbourne) was not aware. There was in those
' gether in largo boLfics, but without giving it the restrics countries a large regular force; there was also a large
Lions that the I rev has given it. This right was stated at militia force. We should look for theit defence, not.
Liverpool in tht most explicit terms, at the very moment merely to the regular army in that county, but to their
when men were assembling by torch-light. My Lords,, we , own internal resources ; their own militia ; their own
have been told of the tranquillity of Irela;id. I protest strength ;to the power they could raise. There was a cen-
against the assertion that this tranquillity exists at the mo • sidcrable militia and regular force on foot sufficient to laugh
runt when new modes of agitation are sought after , to scorn any attempt which might be matte by these sym-
every day. There has been recently. propounded 1 pithizers, and that was all that eould.be expeetsd ; for con-
e new schema of a Sittt'on for the purpose of I s.dering the extent of tile Continent, its fastnesses, wows,
raising two miri,-,ai of money, attended by another seller e ' and morasses, it was impossible there could be any
for putting twenty thonsaod Pounds into the rhea° ommet such force kept as to prevent marauding expedi-
of the agitator-41Iear, hear)-mand attitation has tot le her tiens, which might commit the greatest daniape, and
60,000 fighting men.—(l-lenr, hear.) My Lords, Id • hope Ibe guilty of great aura violent predatory excesses.
that her Majesty will carry into execution the Inter part ttf With resoect to the Government of the United States, he
I
the Speech. says that he calls upon them to do that which unquestion.
-
Th. Duke of RICHMOND would not h:ivo. said 1 rafly is the duty of the Government, to prevent a body of
a word upon that occasion had it not been for wade i men frees being permitted to snake these atrocious attacks
had fallen from his two Noble Friends, tte metier , upon diem neighbours; there is no intention on the sart of
and seconder of the Address upon the questien of j the Pre =_l• sit of tee United States to prevent this from
the Corn-laws. Ile could net allow these übsereaeons to I bsime can ied nee effect. Every exertion been merle,
go forward to the peeple without stating hie t•pMim., which I every repretentathei hes been made, in order to induce his
was that if these laws were repealed the agriculture] leterett I tome t ons 00 close panne I trust that these exertions,
must go to ruin, and then the manufacturing hitt:rem trust ' c mbirted with the compl. to failure of all their p'ans, and
"flow, for what could they do without the coasumptioe of v ith the complete discomfiture of all the attempts that, have
the other interest ? His Noble Friends had said th• se laas bet n suave at rstmilion, will have the full effect Of putting
ought to be altered because the agricultural ietcr. st bad' an end to these diitut bailee& My Lords, the Noble Duke
obtaineal some relief from the Poor Law Amendment Act, has eaMd his spa ech by masking some allusion to the eon.
hut he would ask, how long was the malt tax to remain, cluding paragraphs of the Address, which allure to the un-
clad when was the land tax to be assimilated mei proteerly I I;ti tail ineeMegs which have lately token place in vaehius
apportioned throughout the country? He could :lot ahow 1 parts of the kingdem—meetings of a must dangerous cha-
such opinions to go to the country without los-eott.tivg hi-a i ratter--o!eailogs beld at right—at a season west favourable
pretest against them, and the doings of those seeculators fur the cenecalment of crime—and also meetings in which
who 'wished tie set the two great interests at earinice. A language . melting open allusion te murder has Len
question of so much interest should be soon settleM and he made tree 01 to excite the minds of the people.
hoped an early opportunity would be afforded fur discussing The Ntb:e Duke says that these are proceedings
it; end he trusted the farmers of England would not Co whith it is incumbent on her Majesty's Goverment,
deluded by any one, however high his station, who talked I immediantly to reporess, and to which no allusion
of a moderate fixed duty.—( Cheers.) I should b.: made by any Member of her Majesty's Govern-
LORD VERNON said he had been Ulcer:mete acem.l meta. lam not In ceisely aware what fell from my Noble
cr understood by his Noble Friend. lifi;,:t he had said Friend at Lim rpm 1, but. lam sure that nothing would
was that the agricultural interest having received some relief fall from stay Noble. Friend which could at all be interpreted
from the new Poor Laws, the time was peculiarly fitted for into langu,g.: inculcating seditien, in those persons to whom
considering the complaints of the manufacturing interest. her Majesty's Speech bad been compelled to direct atten-
Lend COLCHESTER was surprised no "'ice ohatevur : tien. W.th respect to another party, to whom he makes
had been takes in the Speech of the state of tem Navy, when allusion, I reEtmle he means the Hon. Member for Dublin,
it had been publicly and broadly stated Vint WC mere with- and states that he is in the confidence of Government. He
out supplies, and that our Navy was in such a state that it alludes to this Gentlemati's attempts at agitation—l sup-
would be no difficult matter for a foreign Admiral to Men po-e he means the Precursor Societies. 'I declare that I
Shterness.—(Hear.) Our coasts were in a ruovt unpro_ I totally diemprove of these societies; I consider them all
tected strte, and the question was of stiffit2ier•t importance unconstitutierran as likely to supersede the authority of the
todeservetheirLorcla.hips' earnest and most serious attention. laws. The Precursor Seeieties do not stand in the same
Earl MINTO—The House would understand his motive light as those which inculcate feelings of atrocity, doctrines
in not entering into the discussion of that quetthm upon of murder, fire, andelestruction. The Noble Duke stated
that occasion. They would be fully aware it was from co that this pa ty could raise two millions of men. I apprehend
disrespect to their Lordships, but he conEiclore I that the 1 that all that was meant is, that he could g. t two millions of
discussion could come on much more Caine i:•!;!ly wader I 10,119 cue shilling a piece, for these purposes ; and this
the notice which had been most property given by tl:e I is all that is meant; the Noble Duke was confounding this
Noble Earl, Upon that occasion he would be prepared to lasif it meant a declaration for the encouragement of mai-
enter into tlte diteussion, and show their Liel.ships that sure and destruction of property. I have great satisfae-
there was no truth in the statements alluded to. thin that unanimity prevails in this House on the Address.
Earl WINCHILSE A agreed in everything that had I have made these few observations, which I think all that
fallen from the Noble Drke on the cross beneties ( iieit- is necessary.
mood). Ito was perfectly cons laced that if tl,c ag, iCUI- Lord BROUGII A AI stated that it gave him unfeigned
rural interest wm'e rased the manufacturing interest could satisfaction to hear the various topics to be found in the
not stand. It was a fallacy to suppose that the Itrit;sh speeches of the mover and seconder of the 'Address. There
farmer would is any degree be protected by a axed mode., wtts nothing which called for any material distatssion,or which
rate duty. Now he would ask, could any Geyer:ma-ant at WAS likely to interrupt that harmonious di-position which
present impose any fixed tax that would in any way menu. was but courtesy towards the Crown. Regarding the Ad-
aerate the British farmer and the British land awn r fir the dress in that light, he could not help alluding to one or two
burdens which were imPos,d upon the land. - Ile was most I things Which had fallen from the Noble Mover aed Se-
sorry to hear the sentiments which had fallen front the two I conder,whose observationswere marked by a curious infelicity
tfohle Lords, the mover and seconder of the address, and 1 as regards all topics which ought to have been left un-
ite implored that great interest to which he belonged te be I touched, and with a parallel intelicity in all which ought
perfectly aware of the situation in which they steed; for 'to have been touched upon. The Noble Lord went on
those two Noble Lords would not have so expressed them- to say, since allusion had been made to himself by his 'Noble
selves had they net been aware that it would not be dis- Friend, that he was ready at all times to redeem those
pleasing to the Government. He was sorry that Noble pledges with regard to any practical education ; front these
Lords and others in high authority should not have taken the pledges nothing wou!d make him swerve. He purposely
more honest and manly course, of stating, its their &emis in abstained from all observations respecting the Canadian
Parliament, any change of opinion with respect to so great i provinces, athough he did not agree with the remarks of
an interest. A letter had been put forth from one holding ; the Noble Lord on that subject. He passed it tut because
a high situation as a feeler for the people, but lie could the Noble Earl, the late Governor General, had most
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assure the Noble Lord and his Colleagues that the agita- manfully and most nobly that night in a manner which
lion so raised, though it was joined in by the maeufac- ' did himself honour, invited discussion on that subject. The
turers, dilentwereetire the sanction of the great mass, who Noble Ituke had made a remark on which be could not
wore interested in manufactures. In 1822, when the agri- help observing. Why did not the American Go-
cultural interest was reduced to SO low an ebb, that the lo ,f , vernment, said she Nolle Duke, interfere to prevent insur-
of bread was selling at 3d. to 31d., and meat at 2d. a gents from passing through tracts of inhabitable country,
pound, he had himself made a journey through tire manu- and prevent the inhabitants from passing over to commit
fucturing districts, and found that distress prevailed to a depredations, and aid in rebellion? If all the vigour of Go-
frightful and enormous degree, thereby showing that the vernment was unable, with 12,000 regular troops besides
depression of the agricultural interest did not raise the 1 Militia, to prevent invasion, how was Mr. Viii Buren, by
Manufacturing interest. The former consumed nine-tenth, , taking part with the sympathisers without a standing army,
of the produce of the tatter`; - awl how could the manufae. ' and without other aid, to effect this, when the Government,
Luring interests do without such customers ? The capital thus aided, could not prevent these reprisals? In other re-
employee in the cultivation of the land ought to bo pro- spec=s he fully concurred in the remarks which had fallen
tected. If this country were to lean for support upon the i from the Noble Duke. With respect to the passages
produce -of foreign countries, in a very short time their of the Speech which refer to the policy pursued in India,
supplies 'would fail us. In the meantime a great portion of he trusted that no long interval would elapse before
the land of this country would be thrown out of cultivation. their discussion came forward in that House.—( Hear.)
The agricultural interest would be ruined, and the distress If the misconduct that had lately taken place in that part
would not be upon them alone, but the ruin would of the Empire was to be attributed t.) the Government
equally extend to the manufacturing interests. There was there-or at home he knew not. He hoped that the ru-
one part of the Speech which he felt himself obliged to mours so universally spread that these most culpable pro-
protest against. It was that paragraph which stated that ceedings had originated •at Calcutta were well founded.
a reform of the Municipal Corporations of Ireland was es- If that were the case, then his blame would be tranformed
sential for the peace of that unfortunate country. He was from the English Government to the Indian. The treaty
of opinion that they would only keep up-that agitation and to which he alluded had been refused ratification, having
strife which was the ruin of the country, amid no Bill for been disapproved of, and disapproved of, in his judgment, most
such a Purpose would ever receive his support. wisely and justly, as being a treaty calculated to bring disho-
Earl RODEN also felt himself compelled to enter his nour on theEnglisli name inlndia. Under these circumstances
protest—his
s . most decided protest against that paragraph in one of the remedies they possessed was their power over
theobli peech of her Majesty's Ministers. He felt also public opinion, which that disclaimed Government
obliged to complain that no allusion had been made in the possessed, and it fell to the lot of that disavowed
Speech to
that country
the situation in which the loyal population of and disclaimed Government, to carry one of the most
was placed. The only mention made of un- large and extensive operations, both of policy and
ever fortunate Ireland was to give more power to those who had of war, which, from the days of Lord Clive, he
ev
tbeen opposed to her Majesty's most loyal and faithful would venture to say, when the fate of the empire
suklacts• There never was an opening of Parliament in hung in the balance, had ever been contemplated by the
which the public mind was so excited with regard to the English Government in India ;he would say nothing of the
Speech from the Throne. Ho did not know how it would capture of the island of Paros in the Persian Gulf—he
be received in this country, but he was certain that it would would say nothing of the treaty of Affghanistan in violation
bo received •
_with surprise and indignation by the Pro- of which that capture was effected; of these things he
!Manta of Ireland, and not by them alone, but by many would say nothing, nor should he refer to those manifestoes
loyal Catholic subjects of this country, because no mention of the Indian Government, avowing and proclaiming the
was made to the situation in which they were now placed. motives, views and arguments on which this policy was
He trusted the subject would be taken up by some Noble framed ; but he would come to the reasons—the contempt
Lord, but, if not, he would feel it his duty to bring it under of all colour of argument—by which the conclusion was ar-
the.La Lordships' attention. rived at,—that because the King of Persia had done some-
viscount MELBOURNE—AIthough there was no thing they did not like, they were to march an army
dense respecting the Corn-laws in the Speech, yet he to dethrone the King of Cabool—ho would not revert
thought that it was quite natural that his Noble Friends the to the history of the King of Cabool—of that man who
mover and seconder of the Address should introduce thoie was a pensioner, a mendicant pensioner on the country
topics which were agitating the public mind, and state of England—a man who bad been twice dethroned, because
their opinion upon them. He would have wished he was hated by the people ; but he could not understand
to have followed the course of the Noble Duks, and have why he should be preferted to Dost Mahomed, who was King
abstained from at that moment entering into the subject; de facto, and of whom the Minister abroad had stated, that
but in consequence of what had fallen from the Noble Earl he was a wise and a popular man, but that the other was
touchedwould upon those subjects had they not been aware that it one principle should be applied to India, and another to the
have been agreeable to the Government as a Govern. European continent. How could that be the case when
anent, he felt compelled to state to their Lordships that their only reason for supporting four or five of the old
ever since the formation of the present Admieistra. Kings in preference to others, arose from the circum-
tion, the Corn-law question had been what was tech- stance of their having been expelled by the people, the lat-
nieally termed an open question, though he believed that a ter being the legitimate, and the former the popular
majorityieo the Cabinet thought that some modification Sovereigns—(Hear, and laughter.) Their Lordships
If the Nowblewas necessary. ( Cries of Hear, hear, hear ) were perfectly aware the- the en pira of India was founded
Lord inferred from the speeches on that oe_ upon opinion. That had been stated again and again, until
ca. the his (Lord Melbourne's) opinion, he inferred that mii... it had becorrie a bye-word and a proverb in Indian policy
mon erroneously.`( - Y---( Het, ) He was not willing to go into —but he assured them that it meant nothing but this—opi-
any debate on the Corn-laws on this occasion—he wished nion was of three kinds : First, were they governed better for
to avoid it; but
.he had no objection to state his oeinione, the people than themsel -es ? that, he freely admitted, had
Wnuton were Precisely the same as that which he had stetcd been the cane up to the present hour. Secondly, That
h the few observations which he made to the House in they goveined justly as regarded their foreign relations
themore
course of the last ear—observations which attracted with the native Princes ; that, he could not admit had always
delivered
notice fr, m the stuatioa in which the person wh been the case. But the last of all, and the chief, was, that
t'lrilniftecrefd them happened so be placed, than from any in. opinion of their power and force; and he hoped to Gull, that
their own : but the opinion which he then that opinion would net now be weakened, by its
delivered, and to which he still adhered, was, that although being found that they had marched six hundred miles
maim. lanoet Prepared to pledge and bind himself to - the to the North West of India, upon the speculation of
_was
nit oof the preseet system as being the best, he dethroning one King and putting another in his room, or
of Par'', as a Member of the Government and a Member that they would jeopardise by such a movement that active
alteratijament' preparel to pledge himself to a change and effective power of opinion on which they held their Indian
. had
n, ar of that law as it stood.—( Hear.) Tho Noble Duke empire. —( He .r, In ar. ) There was a resolution of Par-
t muMmery clearly and distinctly through the whole of the [lament which had beets incorporated in a statute, and that
op of the speech, and had made many observations in resolution, in the exigency of the State, he greatly feared
which he (Lora M.) concurred; but he had made some would not be violated on the present occasion. The reso-
which hWere hardly fair or just, and for which no real justia. lotion deelered it to be against the wish and the policy of
ocaft
the
could be made. The Noble Duke said he approved England to extend its conquests in India. Let them not
e. e conduct which had been Pursued with respect to the be afraid that the present expedition would violate that con-
iPute between Holland and Belgium, and of the definitive 1 tract. There was no fear that the wish of the public would
treat
he tlnproposed for the acceptance of both Powers. In this ibe thwarted—there was no fear that the policy of the
ern \ohati:tl M.) entirely agreed ; and the Noble Duke.added I country would be counteracted—there was no fear that the
thai thjeellY, that be trusted it would never be forgotten Hon. Company would be tarnished by the extension of
neutralcexistenceof Belgium
was bound up in her being a their dominions in India.
What they would he reduced to
State_herseir
that she should be protected from aggression by these wild and unintelligible operations they would have
too phheird not commit aggression on others. He believed a better opportunity of deciding after the discussions and
treaty with
of the Noble Duke, with respect to the results which were pnding would be known. He would
norigat7th Austria, to be correct. Unquestionably the free always remind the`-Lordships that he was giving the
tient a'nt of the Danube was a very important ques. Indian Government great fair play, because he was arguing
the m allu he would add his exhortation to that of I otily ou their own case. He had seen nothing but their
which- o`iatl nuke's, that with respect to those measures own manifesto, containing the honest exposition of their
House sh c,erned our colonies and the East, the own motives of action.—(Hear, bear.) Ile would now
letd rim
peenfi'd suspend forming any judgment until they • say one word upon our Western settlements, and ,
whole of tl' 'oration and knowledge with respect to the here he would heartily join in all that had
framed as t: case. The Address and Speech were so been said respecting the conduct of the colonies in
the sub c, Call on the Ilouse for no decided opinipn on emancipating their slaves : but among the omissions in the
tionmottrthotverybody knew the magnitude of the mum. 1 Speech, which he had in vain listened to from the mover
ditPuteM he
knew the magnitude of that which was in and seconder of the Addresa—which he had in vein listened
matters on fun e caked the Noble Duke to consider the i for, was one very remarkable one, and that was in alluding
Cathy. s, confirmation, and with calmness and impar- Ito what the West Indies had done. No reference, had been
the wording observations had been made with regard to I made to what the Mauritius had done. Why had there
cipal Corpo„°,lmthe Paragraph which referred to the Muni- I been no mention of that in the Speech ? Any man not
stated then they °I Ireland ; and two Noble Lords had I acquainted with. the subject would be led to believe that
ofpthe measurer; did not pledge themselves to the adoption all the West Indian colonies bad emancipated their slaves ;
of it, or team, :3 might be introduced in consequence but here was the Mauritius, a Crown colony, containing
placate miesmhmeasure upon the subject. Perhaps a better about 80,000 or 90,000 slaves, without any Legislature,
lotelyt
tnec'essar:vebeen chosen than that of being abaft- and the Mauritius had done absolutely nothing. How
voted for toorest,;_ but in voting for the phrase, no one stood the case with respect to the Mauritius. If there
the MuniCipat than that the amendment and regulation of were ten reasons in Jamaica for emancipating the
vary great imp corporations in Ireland was a matter of slaves before their time, there were ten thousand rea-
of the Home. rtance--a matter worthy of the consideration sons in the Mauritius why that should he &nes
degree of amendment
every person left himself open to any because in Jamaica there was a sort of title to the slaves,
municipalities, thil:tetoht, or reformation or reservation of the a every holder of an estate-having a right to possess a certain I
of the country. Tithey might think best for the interests number-30,000 of the 80,000, as was stated by Sir George !
introduced for the e measures which were intended to be Murray. and he knew that it had been underrated by 10,
justice tlarouahoutntore speedy enforcement of law and of or perhaps 20,000 had been carried to the Mauritius
greater
for giving ° the cowry, related to various measures since the abolition of the slave trade, and each of
gorating tee vigour to the police, and altogether invi- these slaves was not there by any legal title, but by a title '
throughout ootehxt7ution of the law in its lower.branches, derived from a commission of a capital felony. Was
With respect to
ail: rural and town districts of Me country. I ever so strong a case made out for insisting upon the '
was probable that other part of her Majesty's dominions, it I emancipation of the 80,000 alaves. Suppose a jury of .
!cry decided and firm measures would be I tpwelve men had been impanalled to try whether six men i

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