The Sun.
London, England, 1839-07-26 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON FRIDAY, JU

removing the town of Galway from ScheduleA to Schedule
B. He apprehended that it would be a violation of the
established practice and would endanger the Bill to propbse
the alteration of the boundaries., and therefore he proposed
t-iit the town ofGal way be removed from Schedule A to Sche-
dule B. This amendment would have been proposed in the
House of Commons, but the Hon. Member for Galway was
necessarily absent from the Committee on account of s: vere
illness, or he would have proposed the alteration of the
boundaries when the 8,11 was before that House. He had
three years since proposed as an amendment to a similar
Bill, the abolition of all the Corporations of Ireland ; be
bad since, however, deferred to the generally expressed
opinion of the people of Ireland, and begged to be under-
stood as not now introducing this amendment in a .pirit at
all hostile to the Bill. The fact was the boundaries of
the town of Galway were diff!rent in the present Bill to
what they were in the last ; they were more circumscribed,
and consequently it would be a heavy burden to tbem to
have to maintain the mach?hery of a Corporation. In
fact they already posses,ed a popular governeient in that
town, under the Act of the 9th Geo. I V., to which the
petition referred. If they were removed to Schedule B,
they would still have the power of making appliew ion to
the Government to have a Municipll Corporation, should
they at any time deem such a measure desirable. Under
these circumstances he trusted that his motion would meet
with no opposition. The Noble Lord then moved his in-
struction.

Viscount MELBOURNE doubted whether the House
could consistently accede to the wishes of the inhabitants
of Galway. A Corporation was not to be considered as a
favour granted to a particular town, and which it might ac-
cept or refuse, but as a duty imposed on it on account '
considerations of general policy, and in this point of view
it was not open to the town of Galway to refuse to dis-
charge its duty. The fact was, the alteration complained
of had been introduced by their Lordships themselves in
the Bill of last year, and he thought the only remedy
would be to restore to them their former boundary.
The Earl of WICKLOW wished it should he left to
the option of every town to receive or reject a Municipal
Corporation.
Lord ELLENBOROUGH dill:red entirely from the
view taken by the Noble Viscount. In this case the town
of Galway already possessed a popular local government,
and they preferred that to the Corporation, and wished to
have an optian as to which popular local government they
would rec4ive.
Earl FITZ WILLIAM wished to know when this de-
sire of removal into Schedule B first titanifestei itself?
Lord FITZe3ERALD had received the first commu-
nication on the subject on Saturday.
The Duke cf WELLINGTON had understood that
the people of Ireland were de,irous of having these Corpo.
rations ; but it appeared now, according to the Noble
Viscount, that these Corporations were not a boon con-
ferred, but a burden imposed—a duty required.—(A
laugh.)
Viscount MELBOURNE had not mentioned the word
burden. There was a great difference between a duty and
a burden.
Earl FITZ WILLIAM had not asked the question ow of curiosity, but to ascertain whether the feeling had been
of long standing or of recent growth.
Lord FITZGERALD explained.
Viscount MELBOURNE thought the House should
be cautious how they proceeded, nr they might have a pe-
tition presented complaining of the course they had
adopted. The Noble Lord had stated that the petitiou
had boa signed by all the respectable inhabitants of Gal.
way; this he supp.sed did not include the numerical ma-
jority.—(A laugh. )
Lord FITZG ERA I.D said the petition was signed by
200 respectabl- inhabitants. The population of the dis-
trict was 16,000.
The Marquis of WESTMEATH said, if erer there was
an absurd attempt to anglicise everything Dish the present.
Bill was one.

school and Erasmus Smith's sehools both of which had
been instititted efdliisiVe Protertant purposes, should be
managed by Protestant trustees, on the same principle that
had been found to work so advantegeously ire 8
school in Lincolnshire. His should be satisfied to
adopt the minute of the Noble Viscount opposite
as a guide' for the compensation of trustees. The neat
amendment related to the thirty-four new clauses which
Caere introduced into the Bill on the 19th of April, for the
purpose of transferring the power of raising money from
the Grand to the Petty Juries. He objected to this pro-
posed change alto ether. Let theft nafiSine this point
hereafter. He would merely remind their Lordships that
the presentments of the Grand Juries were now under a
check, for they had to undergo the fiat of the Judges.
With respect to the new charters, he thought, with the
experience of Birmingham and Manchester before them,
charters to Ireland ought to be granted only when peti-
flora for them had been signed by a majority of inhabitants
in each case, who would be elioible for burgesses under
the Bill. He pry posed to glee the maoagernent of the
public property, in places which should not apply for a
charter, to persons who would under the Bill be qualified
as burgesses, and who should be created Commissioners—
that was, they should have 10/ qualifications, for he should
consider the 6/. qualification required by the 9'h of George
the Fourth insufficient. This was the scope of his amend.
ments. If they were adopted, he would support the Bill ;
if the Bill, however, should not include them, but should
come out of the Committee at all in shape like the pre.
sent, he should give it, on the third reading, his warmest
and most strenuous opposition.—( Loud cheers.)
Lord BROUGHAM felt much pain in having to oppose
his Noble and Learned Friend, after the luminous and
forcible statement he had made to the House, in that happy
style in Which he had never been surpassed, and was per-
haps without an equal, However, he agreed with his
Noble and Learned Friend respecting the culpable neglect
and delay in bringing up the Bill from the other House.
Those observations confirmed the general observations he
(Lor Brougham) made the other night. Sdil he was of
opinion, that they had still time enough to make it such a
Bill as should deserve to be passed into a law. His Noble
and Learned Friend's amendments he should call alters-
(ions. His arguments went beyond his opinions. He had
no objection, it seemed, to dismantle the fortresses of
Protestantism, provided he could establish in their stead
corporations composed of neutrals hi religion and politica.
A Catholic, and perhaps a Radical Mayor, would be un-
;avoidable under the Bill, as the Catholics' were more
numerous than the Protestants by five to one. He must
say that a neutral in religion, which, seemed to be a desi-
deratum to his Noble and Learned Friend, must be an
odd sort of animal, being a man who belonged to
neither one religion nor another—(Leughter)—who
was neither Catholic, Protestant, Gre, k, nor Jew. It
must be very rare to get such a one. Ile believed they
,night be more , likely to get a neutral in politics,
;.bough it must still be very rare to find him. If they
could find a neutral in religion they ought to shut him
up in a cage—if they could catch a neutral in politics
iney should keep him in a museum for conservancy sake.
—( Laughter.) He thought the quslification proposed be.
his Noble and Learned Friend was too high, though
perhaps there was not in reality more than des. or 16s. cliffs-
rence between them —( Hear, hear.) He thought -the
household tuff-age ssould be qualification enough both in
England and Ireland. With regard to the appointment
tl:oftlSnthyerSifrherhifFP
He would merely allude to the
iwwouel;el rfe.remqiuttthr Lordships that in their,
in point. With regard to the appointment of Magistrates,
acpitpyooil.teLdote,yidcosnirparsiraaticoansse,
eid the allusion made by his Noble and Leareed Friend
to what had recently hspeened in one of the central
towns of this kiagdom, he thought that was not the
iault of the system, but of some indiscreet appoinonents,
.rid he said this without manning in the least to•insinuate
anything againet the respectability of the parties
but msrely to state that they had corn.
stinted themselves to some opinions rather too in-
utheestcioauseu, fthoPsueYsper-
sons ranee, for instance, and as was
liscreetly—he might mention
always
eayqs
went forth and exhibited greater activity in the sup-
pression of any tumult than other persons. lie agreed
with his Noble and Learned Friend, that there was ao
bscurity in the English Act as to the manner in which
the sense of a majority of the inhabitants was to be ascer-
.ained, in order to make the grant of a Charter valid. It
ought in the present Bill to be made clear how the
:ease of a majority of the inhabitants was to be taken,
because a charter to a town was not a duty imposed,
out it was necessary that it should be accepted by
;he town, as well as granted by the Crown, before it
sould be valid. At all events it should be clearly enacted
'hat when a charter was since gratoel it should not be
rendered invalid by scare Acias in consequence of any in-
*ormality subsequently discovered in cohvening- the inha-
bitants, or in ascertaining the sense of the majority. If
some enactment of this sort were not introduced, it would
sad to inextricable confusion. He had now gone through
as shortly as lie could all the grounds of amendment pro-
roved by his Noble and Learned Friend, and he earnestly
hoped this was the last time that they would have this mea-
sure before the House. He trusted their Lordships would
ee enabled to come to such an understanding as to put this
natter into such a train as to have it once for sill satisfac-
torily settled. I they looked to the interest it had excited
in both Houses of Parliament, arid the mariner in which it
was regarded by the people of Ireland, it was the more
desirable that it should without delay pass int, a law.
Lord L YNDH URST explained. He had never spoken
of men neutral in religion, but he conceived it desirable,
Aid by no means difficult to establish a body of a neutral
Character as regarded religion.
Lord B R 0 UG H A M could understand that a body com-
posed of men neutral in religion might be in feed a neutral
body ; but be thought a Corporation composed of ten
Protestants and of ten Catholics, instead of being a neu-
tral body, would produce the greatest combustion that
could be emu ived.—( A laugh.)
The Earl of WICKLOW could not see how her Ma-
jesty's Ministers could consider the Bill so much deterio-
rated by the amendments proposed as to give it up if they
were carried. There was' but little real difference b--
tween them on the question of qualification. He was deci-
dedly in favour of the 81 qualification, as ascertained by
the Poor. law Commissioners, as if that were not adopted
They would have three distinct ratings—the Parliamentary,
the Poor-law, and the Municipal—a state of things which
waS highly inexpedient. Tiae 81. franchise in towns be
considered as great as the elective franchise, and he hoped
that the introduction of this municipal system mighi, lead
to a new system of Parliamentary qualification. He thought
the qualification ought to be higher in Dublin than in other
'owns. If it were proposed to make it so the proposition
should meet with his support. He for one would protest
against the qualification of three years, and in that respect
would support the opinion of the Noble and Learned Lord.
He thought that the appointment of sheriffs should, for the
present, be left to the Lord Lieutenant, although it might
be perhaps expedient to introduce some alterations in that
respect hereafter. He believed, if their Lordships could
agree on these points, the remainder of the Bill would give
but little trouble.
Lord LYNDHURST explained.
Lord BROUGHAM explained, •
The Marquis of WESTMEATH objected to the power
which this Bill gave to corporate bodies, of imposing taxes
and rates.
The House then resolved itself into Committee on the
Bill.

The clause respecting the three years' qualification was
amended, with a view to make the qualification perma-
nent, on the motion of Lord LYNDHURST, without
opposition.
On the clause being proposed relative to the 8/. quail.
fication,

Contents
91
Non Contents.
Alajority in favour of the third reading --9
The Bill was then read a third time and passed.
The India Courts Bill was read a third time, and their Lord.
ships adjourned at Half-past One o'Clock.

HOUSE OF COAINUNS, JuLr 25.
. The Sesabu.a took the Chair at the usual hour.
RAILWAYS.
The ATTORNEY GENERAL presented a petition
very numerously and respictahly signed from the city of
Edinburgh, comphining of a Standing Order of the House,
which required a deposit of 10 per cent, of the capital to
subscrib. d and deposittd before any Railriay Bill could
be introduced. The petitioners said such a regulation
was an impediment to bona fide undortaking.s, and sug.
rested that only 5 per cent. of the capital should be re-
quired to be paid up, and the, remaining 5 per cent. before
ground was broken, or the undertaking commenced. Th,
Hon. and Learned Gentleman moved that the paprr by
printed, and gave notice that on Tuesday next he should
call the attention of tha House to the subject, in order to
have the regulation ame,,cl,,d,
SILK FACTORIES.
Mr. GRINISDI PCH presented petitions from Glouces-
ter, Norwich, and two other places, cc mplaining of silk
f.ctories Icing included in the provisions of the Factorie:-
all then before the House,- inasmuch as it would materi-
allyinjure the train!.

Mr. EASTfI 0 PE presented a petition' from John
Bollam, a silk manufacturer, to the same effect.
Mr. WA RBURTON presented three petitions praying
for a unifoim plan of penny postage.
Lord ELIOT presented a petition from Colonel
B. Fairman, complaining of the injury done to his cha-
racter and prospects by a Report of that House, and ing inquirv,—( A laugh.)
Mr. HUME begged to ask the Honourable and Learned
Attorney-General when they might expect a Report on the
case of Stockdale v. Ihsard, from the Committee ap-
poit.ted on that subject ?
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL begged the Hon.
M.,mber to put this question when the Noble Lord who
seas Chairman of the Committee was present.
Mr. O'CONNELL said the Hon. Member assumed
that the Committee had met. It ought to have sat, but
he believed it had never yet sit.—( Hear, hear.)
The Soldiers' Pensions Bil :was on the motion of Lord
HO WICK, read a third time and passed.
After a pause of some minutes, no Member of the Go.
vernsnent being present,
Sir R. PEEL remarked that ho thought it had been
understood that public business was to commence directly
private business and petitioning had ceased.--( )
The SPEAKER said undoubtedly such was the under
standing,

CHARITABLE TRUSTS.
Sir ROBERT PEEL wished to draw the attention
of :he Attorn-.‘.y-General to the great inconveniences at
present existing in respect to charitable trusts for educa-
tion in this country. There were many cases of small en.
dowments of 81. or 101. per annum for such purposes—
where
through some inadvertence, the trusts were not le-
gally constituted, and there were gentlemen in the neigh-
bourhood willing to become trustees, but to procure a valid
authority they must apply to the Lord Chancellor, which
would cost 601. or 701. Now he would suggest whether it
might not be possible to frame some shorter and less ex-
pensive mode of application to the Court in these cases.
The ATTORNEY GENERAL said he should feel
great pleasure in aidini, the attainment of that most desir-
able object which had been suggested by the Right Han.
Baronet, but there were considerable difficulties in the
question. He should likewise feel pleasure in endeavour.
ing to remedy cases where the object for which schools
had been constituted, had become, through the change
of circumstancs in the lapse of ages, inapplicable—cases
in which it would be very convenient tbat some power
should be established for summarily remedying the
defects in;the constitution of the schools. Teere were
many cases of schools endowed in the reigns of Elizab...t
or Edward the Sixth, where the schoolmasters had large
salaries, and few, or no scholars, which could not at pre-
s‘'nt be remedied, except by Act of Parliament.—( Hear. )
Capt. PE CH ELL said that was a most important sub-
ject, and he wished to know if there was any iotention to
legislate upon the Charities' Committee? He knew a case,
that of Berkhampstead (we believe), where schoolmaster
had 2301. a-year and his son 1201, with a magnificent
house, and not a single scholar._.( Hear, hear.)
Mr. BROTHER FON said it had been proposed that
there should be a Board, in which these Charities should
be vested, and have the power of appointing trustees.
The Highway and Turnpike Roads Returns BM was ;
read a seccnd time.