The Sun.
London, England, 1839-02-20 00:00:00

EXERCISES IN ARITHMETIC AND
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Just published by T. HILL, Medical Bookseller, Great Wind-
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APRACTICAL ESSA'I on the DEBILI-
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CONFINEMENT OF THE BOWELS.
W. PINE respectfully recommends persons who habi-
tually take Opening Medicines, to abandon the injurious prac-
tice for the gentle yet instantaneous operation of a little plain
water, applied by means of Dr. Seott's APERITIVE FOUN-
TAIN, which having been filled from the toilet jug, may be
conveyed, unperceived, in the pocket or in a lady's reticule,
to any appropriate place ; conferring upon the use of the Lave-
ment every convenience and comfort that can be wished for by
tke most infirm invalid or timid female, especially Of excluding
air !

W. P. begs also to announce that he has supplied more than
10,000 deaf persons with Dr. Scott's CORNETS, which, to
meet the convenience of all classes, are constructed of the
smallest size to which philosophical principles limit the utility
of practical acoustics ; and below which, no art or contrivance
is of the least service ! They may at any time be fixed upon the
ears in a moment, and as easily removed. Hats, caps, and
bonnets may be put on over them, which permits of their
being worn abroad as well as at home ; and they are therefore
available at church, public assemblies, an d places of business,
ensuring the perpetual enjoyment of hearing to the deaf, through
all the varied pursuits and pleasures of society.
To be procured only of Mr. W. Pine, Superintendent at Dr.
Scott's Medical Repository, 369, Strand (three doors from
Exeter-hall), London.

Mr. BARNEBY brought in a Bill to amend the
Tamworth and De la Inch Road Act.
Mr. LUCAS presented a petition, praying for the
extension of time for the pri sentation of petitions on
Private Bills, as regarded the Central Irish Railway.
—Referred to the Committee on Private Bills.

Mr. BA INES presented a petition for leave to bring
in a Bill (as we understood) to abolish the Soke Mills
at Leeds.

Mr. SPLI RS presented a petition from the trustees
of the Glasgow roads, for leave to amend their Bill.
Sir GEORGE STRICKLAND presented a peti-
tion for leave to bring in a Bill for the recovery of
smell debts in Ha

Captain GORDON presented a petition for leave
to bring in a Bi,l for the improvement of the Harbour
of Frazerburgh.
Sir J. Y. BULLER moved that the time for re-
ceiving any petitions for private Bills solely for the re-
covery of small debts, be extended from the 21st instant
to the Bth March next.

Mr. WALKER seconded the motion, which was
agreed to.

Sir JOHN YARDE BULLER also moved that
the time for the final reading of any Private Bill, solely
for the recovery of small debts be extended from the
18111 day of March next to Monday the Bth day of April
next. This motion was also seconded by Mr. Walker
and agreed to.
Mr. NOEL presented petitions from Pickworth,
Rutlandshire, and nineteen other parishes, praying that
no alteration be made in the existing Corn-laws.
Mr. BRA MSTONE presented petitions from se-
veral places in Essex against any alteration in the Corn-
laws.

Sir CHARLES BROOK VERE presented peti-
tions from Beccles and another place in Suffolk against
iny system of National Education unconnected with
the Church Establishment ; and two other petitions
7rom places in the same county for the same put pose.
General SHARPE presented a petition praying for
he revision of the Corn-laws.

Mr. HUTT presented a petition from Hull, praying
for the total and i►nmed:ate repeal of the Corn-laws.
Mr. SHAW LEFEVRE presented a petition
from a parish in the county of Southampton against any
alteration i❑ the Corn-laws.

Lord G. LENNOX presented a,petition from 179
occupiers and owners of land in the neighbourhood of
Chichester, to the same effect.

Mr. GORING presented a petition to the same effect.

Mr. THORNELY pres.enied a petition from Wol-
verhampton, praying for the total and immediate repeal
of the Corn-laws.

Sir E. KNATCH BULL presented a petition from
a parish in Kent, against any alteration in the Corn-
laws.

ECCLESIASTICAL COURTS.

Mr. HAWES held to present a petition, which he
considered one of much importance. It was from a
poor weaver, named David JoneF, who, in 1837, was
elected by his fellow-parishioners to the office of
Churchwarden of a parish in Caermarthenshire, in
conjunction with a gentleman of property. Soon
after his election a vestry was held, when the
consideration of a Church rate was adjourned.
He was called upon by the Vicar to provide bread and
wine for the Sacrament ; he stated to the Rev. Gentle-
man that he had no funds, but that did not avail,
for he was cited to appear in the Ecclesiastical
Court in the diocese of St. David's. The costs of the
suit amounted to 801., for which large sum he was now
in prison, with little hope of getting out. He prayed
the House to abolish all Ecclesiastical Courts, and
afford such relief as they might see fit. He (Mr. H.)
considered the matter as one of much importance, and
he begged to give notice that he would call-the attention
of the House to the petition to-morrow.
Mr. BROADLEY presented a petition from the
West Riding of Yorkshire, complaining of the operation
of the Poor-laws.
Mr. CHRISTOPHER presented a petition in fa-
vour of the Corn-laws.
Mr. CARTWRIGHT presented a petition from
500 of the principal owners and occupiers of land in the
county of Northampton against any alteration in the
Corn-laws.
HOLYHEAD LINE OF ROAD.

Colonel SIBTHORP presented a petition from
Lincoln complaining of the unprotected state of the
Irish Protestants and of the outrages which were
committed on them. The Gallant Colonel went
on to say he was glad a change had taken place in
the Government of Ireland, and that he hoped a more
effective alteration would soon be observed, when he
was called to order amidst some laughter. He then
moved for a return, which he said had been assented
to by the Honourable Under Secretary for the Home
Department, of the expense of cutting through the hills,
and of similar improvements on the Holy head line of
road.( Laugh ter.)
Mr. HUME remarked that there was an officer
who had charge of the wh .le line of road, and it would
be unfair to take a portion of the report, as to one
part of the road 'only, instead of getting the general
account. .

Colonel SIBTIIORP did not wish to take the
House by surprise. His reason for wishing to have
the return was that great cxpenees had been and were
still being incurred.
Mr. HUME'S object was not to throw any diffi-
culty in the way, but he thought, in the present state
of things, the return would be partial.
Lord DUNGANNON observed that last year a
most enormous outlay had taken place, far exceeding
that of former years ; he, therefore, considered that the
returns were essentially necessary. _ _

Mr. F. BARING could not understand what ob-
jection could be offered to the return. If the return
when it was laid before the House, did not answer the
purposes intended, he would take care that a•proper re-
turn was furnished.
The return was then agreed to.

Mr. J. BLACKBURN presented a petition from
Warrington against any further grant of money to the
College of Maynooth.

Mr. DARBY presented a petition from a parish in
Sussex against any alteration in the Corn-lacks.
Mr. MAHER presented a petition from Kilkenny,
on the subject of the Irish Railway Commission. The
Hon. Member gave notice that he should on Tuesday
next bring the subject under the consideration of the
House.

Mr. W. MILES presented a petition from Bris-
tol, complaining of the demoralizing effects of the
Beer Act. The Hon. Member also presented a petition
from a person named Henry Ward, stating that he had
expended 2,0001. in erecting premises and establishing
'a brewery, and prayed that in ary act to be passed for
the alteration of the Beer Act, a line might be laid
down between those who had embarked their property,
and those who had not.

Mr. HUAIE presented a petition from Maldon
(Essex), stating very strongly their opinion of the injury
which the country sustained from the Corn-laws, and
requesting the House to institute an inquiry with a view
to their total repeal.

Lord DUNCANNON presented petitions from
persons in Canada, complaining that the population of
the province they inhabit could not join in the worship
of Almighty God according to their consciences ; that
100,000 souls were wholly destitute of spiritual
assistance, and praying the House to apply a
remedy. The Noble Lord also presented a petition
from Willington, Shropshire, to the same effect.
Sir G. HEATHCOTE presented a petition from
the inhabitants of a place in Lincolnshire against beer
houses ; and another from the same county against any
alteration in the Corn-laws.

Sir JOHN OWEN said that the Hon. Member
for Lambeth had presented a petition from a person
residing in Ca rmarthenshire, in Wales, affecting the
character of the Vicar of the parish, and other indivi-
duals, and had moved for this petition to be
taken into consideration to-morrow : there were se-
rious allegations contained in the petition against
the parties referred to, who were conaected in the case
in the Ecclesiastical Court ; and he put it to the Hon.
Member, whether he bad better not give more time,
by postponing his motion.
Mr. B. HAWES said the request was a perfectly
reasonable one; not but that the case was sufficiently
notorious-. He would act with courtesy to the parties,
and had not the slightest hesitation in complying with
the request of the Hon. Member.
Mr. ELLICE, jun., presented a petition from a
a place in the County of Fife, principally signed by
agricultural labourers, against the Corn-laws. The
Hon. Member also presented three other petitions on
the same subject.

Mr. M‘KINNON wished to ask the Chancellor ok
the Exchequer a question relative to the new Houses
of Parliament. If he understood rightly, the dam
was to be finished in May, 1838, and the sea wall in
1839. That had not been done, and he wished to know
Nether the delay had originated from quick-sands, or
what other cause.
Tao CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER,
wra understool, stated that he would made inquiry at
he Board of Wo"ks, and let the lion. Member know.
RIVER SHANNON.
Mr. FRENCH enquired when the report of the
Committee of the River Shannon Navigation would be
laid before the Hots

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER re-
plied, very shortly ; and in answer to a question from
Mr. O'Brien, was understood to say that the Govern-
ment would before long introduce a Bill on the subject.

RAILWAYS.
Lord GRANVILLE SOMERSET wished to ask
of the President of the Board of Trade whether it was
his intention to move for a Select Committee, or to in-
troduce a measure, as to conveyance by railways ? It
was quite necessary before the House proceeded ~vita
any Railway Acts, that the mind of the House should
be made up as to the propriety of enacting any new
astringent measures for rendering the Railway Com-
p inies more responsible for injuries occasioned by the
neglect and carelessness of their servants.—( Hear.)
Mr. P. THOMSON answered that he could not
positively say what his intentions were as to this subject.
But he was quite willing to say it was worthy the con-
sideration of the House—( Hear, hear)—and that
circumstances had lately been brought to his know-
ledge, convincing him that it was important, either by
the appointment of a Select Committee, or by the
introduction of a Government measure, to discuss the
propriety of making some regulations, which were for-
merly neglected—(hear, hear)—not through any fault
of his (Mr Thomson's), but through the current of
public feeling being then against such regulations ; he
would certainly give the question the best consideration
in his power. He thought it would be impossible
in the Committees on Private Bilis, to introduce the ne-
nessary additional regulations : for those Committees
were in general occupied by private interests, and the
public interests were too much n' gl !cted.—( Hear,
hear, hear.) It was therefore essent'al that the
House itself should consider the subject : and on
al), fresh applications ; or applications for enlarged
powers, by the promoters of 'Away schemes, to cffe,:t
such alterations as would save the pub is from the great
inconveniences to which they had been subjected by the
Railway Companies.—( Hear, hear.)
Sir R. PEEL said a Committee had bean appointed
with respect to the arrangements on pirate bills ; and
there had been a great number of applications.
for such Bills. Now it was important to know whether
the Right Hon. President of the Board of Trade con-
terndlated the probability of any new arrangements
with respect to the conduct of private business being
made at so early a period of the present Session, as to
apply to Bills in progress during the present Session?
And might in not be necessary to postpone the period for
the consideration of some private bills which ttool first
for discussion. If any alterasion were contemplated as
to the selection of Commit!ees on private bills, it would
be impossible to apply it during the present Sess.° ;
and might it not be necessary to extend the time, or to
give facilities for the mature consideration of the subjecs?
Mr. P. THOMPSON s.tid his object in moving
for a Committee on private business was to follow out
the recommendation of the Select Committee of last
year ; viz. that a Committee be appointed on the
opening of each Session, with the view of considering
certain points, either mentioned in the Report, or which
were considered subjects for further deliberation in the
Committee. One of those points related to the Com-
mittee lists that might be •speedily-disposed of, but he
agreed that, if necessary, it would be desirable to defer
for a week or a fortnight, any proceeding on private
Bills.

RAW COTTON.
Mr. PHILLIP HOWARD wished to suggest to
the C.nancellor of the Exchequer, seeing the feeling
evinced by the division of yesterday, whether it would not
be well, in order to secure our manufacturers against
foreign competition in order to leave the country from
the heavy duty on raw cotton. He could not expect
an immediate answer from the Right Hon. Gentleman,
but he would beg leave to draw attention to that im-
portant subject in making his financial arrangements.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
said his Hon. Friend had told the House he did not ex-
pect an immndiate answer, and it certainly would be
improper in him not to reserve such a subject for his
financial statement.

Mr. BLEWITT gave notice that he should, on an
early day, move for an humble Address to her Ma-
jesty for copies of, or extracts from, foreign Govern-
ments or Am'iassadors, between the yevrs 1815 aad
1838, containing any complaint with reference to the
duty on the importation of foreign grain or flour, or
any proposal for interchanging mercantile productions
founded on the abolition or reduction of such duties.

LICENSED VICTUALLERS.
Mr. HUME gave notice that to-morrow he should
move for a return of the number of Licensed Vic-
tuallers, and the number of keepers of Beer Shops
Licensed to sell beer, who had been charged
with breaches of the revenue laws in England,
and Wales for the years 1836, 37, and 38, stating the
number of.each who had been convicted.
Mr. 11 AWES gave notice that he should on Friday
week call the attention of the House to the petition he
had that day presented from David Jones, at present
confined in Carnarvon Castle.
IRISH RAILWAYS.
An HON. MEMBER gave notice that on the 10th of
March he should call the attention of the House to the
Report of the Commissioners on Irish Railways, and
point out the injurious cff,ets of that Report upon
the enterprise and capital of that country.
SUPPLY.

Tke CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHE-
QUER moved the order of the day for the House
going into a Committee of Supply, for t!,e purpose of
postponing it.
PUBLIC CREDIT—DEFICIENCY BILLS.

Mr. PATTESON would take that opportunity of
asking a question of the Right Hon. Gentleman the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, he thought it of the
highest importance to the public credit that the state-
ment made in a paper of that day should be contradicted
if it was not founded on fact. The statement to which
he alluded was to the effect that no portion of the de-
ficiency bills had been paid off since the Ist of January.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
had not seen the paragraph in question, but in the
course of that clay he had received a communication
from his Right Hon. Friend the Comptroller of the
Exchequer, calling his attention to the extraordinary
statement which had appeared relative to the matter to
which the Right Honourable Member had alluded.
It was not because he thought such statements
should be put a stop to, or refuted, that he replied
to the question, because he thought that the -more
free and unrestricted discussion was out of doors,
the better it was for the community at large. But if the
statement made had a tendency to affect the public credit,
and if it admitted of an immediate direct Contradiction,
he thought it justifiable for any lion. Member to ask
the question, and the duty of any Member of the Go-
vcrnment who could do so to aniwer the question. His
attention had been called to it by his Right Hon. Friend
the Comptroller of the Exchequer, and the best answer
that he could give to the question which had been
put, was to read the letter
frothhis Right Ho-
nourable Friend,
in which he stated,
he had always
disregarded statements which ap-
peared in the public press respecting the conduct of
business in that office, and if he now deviated from that
course, it was because he considered an article which had
appeared in that days City intelligence as vitally affect-
ing the public credit, and that it became necessary for
him to declare the statement totally unfounded
and at complete variance with the existing state of the
financial department. (Loud cheers.) His Right
Hon. Friend then referred to the fact, which the House
he was satisfied would have great pleasure in hearing,
that so far from no amount of any deficiency bills hay-
ing been paid off since the Ist of JanuarY, that a larger
amount had been paid off in the present year, than for
any similar period in former years.—(Hear, heat.)
It was not for the purpose of contradicting a paragraph
of that description that he had made the statement,
because such paragraphs were generally written without
any knowledge of the official facts, but the House
would feel that in a matter so de,eply affecting

110 USE OF LORDS, FEB. 12.
CANADA.
The Earl of WINCIIILSEA brought forward his
motion with respect to the appointment of Mr. Turton.
Lard MELBOURNE placed the most entire reliance
on the sincerity of the Noble Earl, as expressed in his
addrs sa, that he neither upon the former nor upon the
present occasion, brought forward this question with any
other than the purest motives, or any other desire than to
have manifested that which undoub:edly was the best safe-
guard to the best interests of the country, viz, pure and
honest statements connected with public affairs, on the
part of persons holding high stations.—( Hear, hear.) At
the same time he should be deceiving their Lordships if he
were not to state that he felt this question brought forward
on this occasion with considereb:e concern, not on his own
account—not on account of the Noble Earl, who was moro
particularly connected with this transaction than himself,
but on account of the Learned Gentleman who, without
his presence, and without having the opportunity of defence
afforded to him had been made the subject of public animad-
versions and discussions—animadversions and discussions
which must necessarily be very painful to his feelings, and
not a little injurious to his prospects.--( llear, heat.) It
was impossible not to feel the hardship of the case upon
him. With respect to what took place on the former occa-
sion, he Lord M. had only to say that in circumstanecs
which took place respecting the appointment of that gen-
tleman by the Noble Earl, had induced a strong opinion in
his mind that no such appointment would take place ; and
it was under that impression he gave that assurance to the
Houselic had given. The Noble Earl behind him a:)-
peered to have acted under a differ, nt impression-Lin
this respect, that he acid.' under the distinstion which
he drew on a former occasion between the office he gave
and the other offices which were in the gift of the Crown
—a distinction which lie (Lord M.) owned he could not
concur in.---( Hear, hear.) Their Lordships would per-
haps not be surprised that he who had recommended the
rescinding of that appointment on that occasion, should
not have been inclined to disturb the Government of the
Noble E irl by insisting on the dismissal of that Gentle-
man.—( Hear, hear.) In this situation matters stood
until the whole was cancelled by those more serious even:s
which not only put an end to this appointment, but also
put an end to the Government of the Nublc Earl himself.
This transaction was then entirely merged and lost in the
effect of those greater occurrences. Under these circum.
stances, seeing that this was a question of a very peculiar
nature—seeing that it was a question, the agitation of
which must necessarily occasion extreme pain—and seeing
that no greater satisfaction would be obtained by the Noble
Earl obtaining the production of the dispatches, which as to
the greater part of them, as ould afford no information at all
upon the subject, and considering the information ho had now
the productiongiven,trustedheof
thet dispatches.
he NobleiathecEas.rl would not press his motion for
The Earl of WINCtiILSEA said it was not his intention
to hare taken this course if the answers to his questions, given by
the Noble Viscount, had been satisfactory. It was the furthest
thing from his wish, unless compelled by an imperative sense of
public duty, to take any course calculated to inflict pain on any in-
dividual. It was a sense of public duty that had compelled lion to
come forward now as he had done, and he had to express
his regret that the grounds on which he had come for-
ward being public grounds, communications of a pri.
vete mature had taken place by her Majesty's Government
on this subject; and that he should have to be informed
there was no communication of a public character upon it
which could afford any information.
Lord ME LBO URNE said none of a public character
respecting the latter part of it.
The Earl of WI NC HIL SE A expressed his honest and
sincere regret, that when 'the Noble Viscount owed it to the
ountry to take a public course, however painful to him, he
h ould have failed to have taken a public course. Having sa-
is fled his own mind upon this subject he would now leave it
in the bands of the House. He could not but express his
de p regret at the course taken by the Noble Viscount, be-
cause, if by an inadvertency the Noble Lord intrusted with
a groat public mission, should have to be remonstrated
w. h, and that was to take place in the shape of a private
o immunication, and the private nature of that communica-
tion to be urged afterwards, as a reason why the public
should not know what had taken place, then the public
could nit but be prevented from having that information to
which it was entitled.

Lord BROUG ANI said that having taken Fart in the
observations that were made on this subject More. he cJuld
not but join with the Noble Viscount in expressing a hopethat
the No l Earl would withdraw his motion, the pressing
of which cou!d lead to no advantage after the explanation
which had taken place.
The Earl of WINCHILSEA said it was his int mtitn
to withdraw it.

Lord BRO UG HA M was extremely happy to hear that
which he was not before aware of. Nothing could be more'
candid and fair than the statements of the Noble Viscount
at the head of her Majesty's Gavernment. This was a
painful subject to allude to, but it would be more painful
to him ( Lord B.) not to make an observation or two upon
the subject. However much a circumstance in Mr.
Turton's conduct was to be condemned, yet be bad long
known him, and his Noble Friend behind him (tho Earl of
Durham)had known him for a very many years—he was at
school with him ; he knew well his excellent general cha-
racter, his great abilities, and his extensive information ;
he (Lord Brougham) too, well knew his abilities and
great information, and he would venture to say there was
not a man in the profession of the law or out of it, of a
more exalted character, of higher honour, or purer spirit,
or of a more unblemished character, than Mr. Turton,
and that. very few men were a greater ornament to the pro-
fession of the law than him. He felt bound from what had
been said, and from the stigma that had been thrown
upcn him to ssy thus much. With respect to the particu.
lar transaction, he (Lord B.) was the last man in the
world who would stand up to defend an act of seduction
or adultery ; but he would add that a Noble Friend of his
now no more, who, from his official situation as Lord Chief
Justice of England, was as sensitive as any man upon a
case of this kind, directed his particular attention to the
case. lie ( Lord B.) had heard that case in that House in
his official character ; and his. late Nob!e and Learned
Friend had said to him there was such a case coming before
him; there was a strong prejudice against the party whom
he ( Lord Brougham) had known for a long time ; and
that something had fallen upon his car upon going the Cir-
cuit in that part of the country, which led him to believe
that that we was not so bad as was generally circulated—
therefore, said his Noble Friend to him, ." have your at-
tention awake to the circumstances." His answer to his
Noble Friend was, " I shall do so most willingly, but you
must assist me in it—you must come and sit with me—l
wish to have the comfort of your assistance on the occasion."
That Noble and Learned Lord came—he sat two days
hearing it, and then he said, " I think you will pretty well
see now that I had some ground for my remark." Those
who were sitting with him then said they saw very well
how it was, and that it was by no means so bad a case as
had been supposed, very little out of the ordinary way ; and
the Noble and Learned Lord was told that he had then
better go to Guildhall, because they could then deal with
the case very well themselves. Now, he desired it
to be understood that he was the last man to
say a word in justification of adultery, but still he h Sped
Noble Lords would not run into excess, which was cer-
tainly a very bad thing for morality on all occasions, but
remember that cases which were called by the same name
presented every shade of variety. Apart from that trans-
action Mr. Turton was a man of the highest talent, the
m',at procound incarnation, and upright character.
Lord WICKLOW could not conceive that what the
Noble and Learned Lord had just said with respect to the
private communiettions which he had alluded to, was likely
to raise the high character of the judicial functions and sta-
tion of this country.
Lord BOCA; DAM said if that was the Noble Lord's
opinion, it was one of the most astonishing opinions he had
ever heard. All that he said was, that his late Noble and
Learned Friend had requested him to attend to this case,
because it required particular attention. Was no attention
to be paid to a private commui.ication ? Then, what was
their Lordships to do when they received an invitation to
dinner?.

Lord WICK LOW meant judicially.
Lord BROUGHAM meant judicially too.—( Hear,
hear.) Hear, hear l—yes, and understand as well 65 hear.
What was the use of hearing unless Noble Lords would also
understand ? Let not the country be told that justice was
well administered because persons did not choose to under-
stand it. That case had been heard for three days, it was
thoroughly understood, it was properly disposed of, and no-
thing improper had taken place in refarenec to any commu-
nication made In respect of it, but on the contrary.
The Earl of WICK LO W—My Lords, the Noble and
Learned Lord may be as uncourteous as he pleases towards
me ; for myself I do not rare, but the statements will go
forth to the public. No insulting language which he from
his usual vocabulary may be pleased to use towards me,
will a'.ter my impression. It Is not my impression that is
of any importance, but the statement vvhieh the Noble and
Learned Lord has made with regard to the manner in
which he has exercised the judieiteflinctions of this House
will g.so forth to the country, and the country will be able
to ttde between us.
Loral 131t0 U HA g—And the country will judge most
justly. The people of this country have understanding and
can comprehend what is said—(Laughter)—and will not
run away with all erroneous impressions. I deny having
used any insulting language.—( Ilear, hear.) If the No-
ble Lord will name any one word I said in the presence
of your Lordships at all insulting, or which would show
an intention to insult, or even to treat the Noble Lord with
disrespect —if the Noble Lord will point out any such
word I will retract and apologise for it.—( Hear, hear.)
I cannot say anything more fain—( hear, hear.) The
Noble Lord forgets that he said the most offensive thing
which one man can say against another.—(Hear, hear.)
lie said that I and a Noble and Learned Lord had com-
bined together to defeat the course of justice. Now,
whether anything could be more offensive then that I
leave to your Lordships to say.
Lord AB INGE R, who spoke in a very low tone of
voice, said, as we understood, that the proceeding referred
o was not a judicial proceeding.

Lord MELBOURNE said, that as what he had stated
had been misunderstood, he wished to add a few words in
explanation. When he said there was no despatch on the
subject of the appointment, he meant to refer entirely to
the course lie had taken as the head of the Government,
and which lie had thought himself bound to do in conse-
quence of what had taken place. That, however,
was conducted by private correspondence; but there
was some other correspandence from his Noble
Friend then at the head of the Colonial Depart-
ment, in . which he stated that the appointments
of the Executive Council were approved of, with the
exception of the appointment of Mr. Turton, of which he
expressed disapprobation, and requested an explanation,
in order that the Noble Lord might not suppose no official
notice was taken of that appointment.
The Earl of DURIIA M.—My Lords, It is impossible
for me to allow this discussion to pass without addressing a
few words to your Lordships, not so much on account of
the speech of the Noble Lord opposite, but on account of
the statements made by the Noble Viscount at the head of
the Government. And I feel it necessary to recall to
yot r Lordships' recollection the statement I made yester-
day, and to adhere to that statement, in the essential part
of it, as regards my own character—namely, that I made
that appointment on my own responsibility, and without
considering that I bad in any degree committed her Ma-
jesty's Government on the subject. I considered, and I still
believe the. I bad a right to avail myself of the privilege
which has b.,en accorded to all Governors as regards ho-
norary Executive Councillors, who have been distinguished
from the mandamus Councillors, in consequence of the
opinion g by Attorney and S elicitor Generals Yarrow
and Shepherd, that the appointment of honcrary Coun-
cillors never could officially come before any G ivcrnmeet.
Now, my Lords, whatever may be the impression exis•ing
toon
yt
(lue r mitld rsi fh Noble
ips, and hope,Nrisco Viscount, I
whatever most
may
ay distinctlyb
be
you
your assert
e.
judicc against my public career, that you will at least from
shat you have seen of me give credence to what I distinctly
and solemnly assure you of—l assert that I considered after
what had passed I was justified in giving any appointment
to that Learned Gentleman, provided it did not affect her
Majesty's Government. I did it on my own respcnAibilit.,
and acted strictly and honourably according to the under-
standing that existed between us before I left. Now, my
Lords, I will not shelter myself under the recommendation
of any inditidual in this country as regards this appoint-
ment. If any such recommendations were given to me
from any quarter it was solely done in the hope of bene-
fiting me, and it wou'd be ungrateful of me to shelter
myself under those recommendations. I therefore dis-
tinctly and openly avow that it was upon my own respon-
sibility that I gave the appointment to that Learned Gen-
tleman. I considered I was acting according to the pledge
I had given. and the understanding I had come to with
the Noble Viscount before I left, and which unders
standing has bean since corroborated by those who
were conversant with it. The Noble Viscount has cn

tered Tutu a narrative of this transaction,and had
-
stated to your Lordships that private letters, and public des-
patches were written on this subject, and that in a private
letter I had declared my hononr was pledged, and that I
could not retract the appointment. First of all with,regard
to those private letters. It is perfectly true the Noble
Viscount did Fopose to me to rescind that appointment,
and I declared that having already made it, and having
refused the resignation which that Learned Gentleman ten-
dered rue of the race, that I could not in honour rescind
the appointment, and the only course left to me, therefore,
was to tender my own resignation ; and to repeat an ex-
pression which I made use of in one of my letters—l would
rather cut my right hand off than do any thing which
could be c insidered as having a tendency towards the dis-
credit or disgrace of that Learned Gentleman. With regard
to the pubic despatches, I must say after what has passed,
that I do think I have a right to call for the production of
those putilie despatches. lam not ashamed of them. I
wish the despatches I wrote may be made public. Or, if
Noble Lords do not think proper to move an address for
them, perhaps the Noble Viscount will give me leave to
read a copy of that despatch. I will not have it supposed
there is anything in the despatches I wish to conceal, or
that anythii.g further than the motives I have stated to you,
would induce me to make the appointment. It would be
an infinite satisfaction to me, if every word I wrote in
private, aril every word I wrote in public, on this subject,
were detailed to the House. I have no cause to be
ashamed of it; and it would be seen that the circum-
stances in which I was placed with regard to that Learned
Gentleman, were such that I was bound even to make
a sacrifice myself, rather than he should suffer. And now,
my Lords, one word with reference to that individual.
I feel very much obliged to my Noble and Learned Friend
below me (Led Brougham) for having called your Lord-
ships' attention to the eminent professional talents of that
Gentleman. I had known him from his earliest infancy.
but we were separated by the ordinary circumstances of
life—he went to India and I remained in this country. I
knew his professional talents— I knew besides, when he
was recommended to me, that he had been employed as
Advocate-General in India by Lord Combermere, above a
year and a quarter—that Lord Amherst confirmed the ap-
poin nt,:nt, and that he discharged his duties so well to the
satisfaction of the Governor and Council of India, that
they did what was a most unprecedented thing, namely.
voted him 5,000 sicca rupees, and also a vote of thanks for
his conduct—
Lord BRO LTG HA M.—As Advocate-General?
Lord I) H A M.— Yes ; a vote of thanks for his con-
duct as Advocate-General. Is it to be endured
therefore, that I should be blamed for appointing to this
trumpery office a man who had filled the highest judicial
situation in India ?—( Hear, hear, from Lord Brougham).
Was Ito be denied the privilege never denied to Lord
Combermere or to Lord Amherst, of taking advantage of
his legal and professional services? Nut only that, but
the inhabitants of Calcutta, Bengal, and Madras, elected
him their agent in this country to be in communication
with our Government. All those unfortunate circum-
stances, which have been made so much of here,
were matter of notoriety, and were known in Calcutta,
and yet he received these proofs of the confidence and
esteem of those who knew him. Why, he held the office
of churchwarden of the cathedral church in Calcutta up to
the hour that he let. Whatever may be your opinion, and
whatever may be the ridicule Noble Lords opposite may
make of the matter, I suppose a person appointed to that
situation in the Church, could not be considered as a very
immoral person. Under these circumstances it was that I
availed myself of his services—services unpaid for to this
very hour. He has not received one farthing—he has
not received any appointment for his services, and
no man could possibly have acted more faithfully
or zealously in the discharge of his duty. And now, my
Loris, you will excuse me, I hope, if I tell you very
frankly and very decidedly, that I shall not be sorry on my
own account if the Noble Earl makes a specific motion
relative to this appointment, because I am prepared to meet
him whenever he thinks proper to make it. But the
Noble Earl must be aware of the consequences to which
that must naturally lead. He may think it advisable to dis.
cu.s this question upon this individual case, and I may
meet him on that, but it cannot end th6re.—( Hear,
hear, from Lord Brougham.) I shall be prepared
to discuss the question on general principles, and I feel I
shall have a right to enter on the general question of adul-
tery, considered in reference to the conduct of public men,
and the great regard your Lordships have for decorum, I
am sure, will augment your regard for justice. I feel lam
entitled to do that.—(Oh, oh.) Aye, and I will;go into an
enquiry into the case of every public man who may have
received official employment after having committed adul.
tery.—( A laugh.) I am very well used to all these
obstacles and impediments which Noble Lords endeavour
to throw in my way. You will not with all your sneers
and jeers drive me from the course I have pointed out for
myself. I tell Noble Lords, that I utterly disregard all
their sneer. and interruptions, and I give them this notice,
and from their knowledge of my character. they may be
sure I will act up to my promise, that if this.ex post facto
condemnation is to be followed up, that at any rate the case
of every individual who has been employed in an offi-
cial situation, and who has been guilty of an adul-
terous act shall be brought forward for inquiry.
Whatever course my Noble Friend may think right to
take, with regard to withdrawing or pressing his motion, I
say I will second him in any demand for documents I may
have addressed to her Majesty's Government.
The Earl of W INC IH L SEA—I shall discharge what
I think to be my duty in this or any other matter. I know
myeelf too well to care for the taunts of any man. I will
i act up. to my principles, and it the Noble Earl should
bring forward any case of the nature he alluded to, I will
give him my support, and be entirely uninfluenced by any
principle but that of doing my duty to my country.
The Marquis of WESTMEATH gave notice that on
Thursday he would present a number of petitions connected
with the Corn-laws.
WESTLNIEATII ELECTION.
- -

The MARQUIS of WESTMEATH, in moving. for
the additional papers relating to the inve;tigation held at
Mullingar, before John Brooks, Esq., said he had given
notice of a motion respecting the election for the county
of Westmeath, which he had determined to bring forward
to-day, whether the Noble Marquis at the head of the Irish
Government were in the House or not, " That these
papers be laid on the table." There were 48 pages, of
evidence with remarks appended.
The MARQUIS of NORMANBY was nut away,
what the papers were that the Noble Marquis
had alluded to, but lie dared say there would
be no objection to their production.
Tho - Marquis of WESTMEATH st:11 thought it his
duty to make his statement. The evidence he had stated
was contained in 48 pages, and the paper appended to it
was a judicial opinion on the evidence. A Noble Lord
bad last night said that the easiest way to dispose of the
ens° was to put aside all evidence, and it would appear in
his case the Commissioner bad passed over the whole of
the evidence, and had brought his ( Lord Westmeath's)
name in in a manner wholly unjustifiable. He said, in the
first place, that the Marquis of WTestmeath did not attend
this investigation
; he then said that be was directed
to hold an investigation into certain circumstances which
took ph,ca at Mullingar. (The Noble Marquis here read
a letter addressed to the Iri-h Government, asking what
course he was to take in the investigation.) Now, in the
first place he found it necessary to say he had nev:r made
any charge on that subject ; in December, 1837, a certain
statement was made before the Magistrates of the County
of Westmeath, respecting the matter to which those papers
related, when the Chief Constable said he could give the
Magistrates no information ; he consequenCy wrote to Lord
Morpeth, asking leave for Mr. Rowan to communicate to
him (th,,! Marquis of Westmeath) the information re-
quired. lie got no answer to this letter. In June he
called the attention of their Lordships, and shortly

after received a letter from Mr. Drummond, stating
that his letter had been sent to Lord Morpeth, that it had
subsequently been mislaid and that search was making for it ;
but what would their Lordships think, when he told them
that those identical papers, which could not be found on
the 11th of Dec , were found in the bands of a .political
club at Mullingar, and bad been inspected by four Roman
Catholics. And, near a year after this, the Secretary
anxious to make him believe they were lost. The cireum -
stances were certainly not such as Mr. Drummond had
stated them to be, but it appeared that in Sept., he (Mr.
D.) had a long interview with Mr. Shoji, and now he had
something to say respecting the conduct of Government.
Mr. Rowan and the constabulary force had received the
thanks of the Lord Lieutenant through Colonel Shay,
Kennedy and Mr. O'Donoghue, for their good conduct a,
this election. Now what was the conduct of the Lord
Lieutenant towards these officers, to whom they had re-
turned their thanks? These officers had thought it their
duty to make a representation against the conduct of two
persons whom the Lord Lieutenant was pleased to protect,
He ( Lord Westmeath) did not wonder at this, be_
cause one of these persons had been appointed R,
magistrate against the expressed opinion of himself
(the Marquis of Westmeath). The Lord Lieutenant
was thus in some measure implicated by that appOintment, he
was committed to it, and it was necessary to see if he could not ,
justify it. Now what was the course the Government took? !
afte Daglaseau, who was the Chief-constable, received the ;
order at his station in the county of Louth to ge to Dublin on
the Monday : he went there on the Tuesday. On the 'Wed-
nes as he saw Colonel Shaw Kennedy—set off for Alillitigar
on the Thursday, not having received any information respect-
ing the investigation, and on the Monday that investigation
took place. What was the mode adopted at this investigation?
The Government positively put their own officers on trial, and
not the persons charged with misdemeanour by the
officers of the Government. In consequence of Mr.
Daglaseau objecting to this course, he was distinctly
told by the Counsel on the opposite side that he was to consider
himself on his trial. His Counsel then demanded that the an-
• veers of the gentlemen to the charges which had been brought
against them should be furnished him. Mr. Daglaseau was no;
furnished with them, the Chairman saying that it wee- not at
that stage of the proceeding that that application should I
mad The only opportunity that Mr. Daglaseau had for look-
ine at these replies had been when they were sent down to him
at"his station at Lo • th, at which time he was not suffered to
copy them, but was ordered to send them back by the orderly
dragoon who had brought th in. He was put on his trial for
exceeding his duty, and no opportunity was afforded him to
rebut the charges.—(Hear, hear.) Now it was mentioned
at the head of the evidence—before the evidence was gone into
—at the very commencement of the minutes that Counsel or.
behalf of Mr. Daglaseau having stated that that gentleman was
not in possession of copies of the replies made by these Magi-
-strates to the charges brought against them, such copies were
furnished to him by direction of the Court; such was not the
case. These documents had been refused them, and yet this
statement was made in order to make the proceeding appear
less unfair. When Mr. Daglaseau was furnished with these copies
does not appear. They may have been furnished him subsequently!
but certainly not at the commencement of the proceedings•
He would read the report of the trial from the short-hand
writer's notes, which he intended subsequently to more for, so
that if he committed any mistake the Noble Marquisisof wool l
have an opportunity of cm recting it.—( The Marquis
meath, . fter turning over several papers, said he could not
exactly lay his hand on that part of the evidence he wanted to
find.) He did not understand what right the Lord Lieutenant
had to institute investigations of this kind—he seemed to take
authority in his own hands, like a third Daniel, to come to a
very wise decision: He would not go further into the subject
until the papers were laid before the House; and he would
only mention a part of the investigation which bore a
personal relation to himself, that there was never seen
anything so unfair. A Mr. Egan, Crown prosecutor,
had been asked whether he (Lord Westmeath) was not a mem-
ber of the Liberal Club in the county,
.when the Liberal Club
had never been mentioned during the course of the investiga-
tion. -
tion. Their Lordships, after all this hard swearing, would be
Rh-prised to hear that he never was a member of a Liberal Chili
in Ireland. He believed that the rin Liberal was used bY a
band of persons whose only object was to place the whole
of
Ireland under the dominion of the Roman Catholics. It was
true that previous to the passing of the Roman Catholic Relief
Bill, being of opinion that the representation of Ireland was too
much of a family concern—that he was the member of a club
called. the Independent Club, the members of which were
associated together for the purpose of making heal
against such a system of representation. Matters, however, in
Ireland, were now changed. The Irish Reform Bill, and the
Roman Catholic Relief Bill had passed, and the Roman Catho-
-1 cs could not any longsr complain of being excluded, and there-
tore, since then, that club had been broken up. He did no: I
believe that he had attended that club more than twice, and ye'
for that he was to be accused of having changed his principles.
Trusting that the House would pardon hjm for having occupi
so much of its time, he would conclude by moving the moticr.
of which he had given notice.
The Marquis of NORMANBY did not complain of the 1
want of candour on the part of the Noble Marquis,
beeanse his former experience of the vulgar manner in wilich
the Noble Marquis usually brought the subject forward,
prevented him.] from doing so. (Hear, hear, hear.
But he complained of its being brought forward as itliad been
with reference to the interests of truth, as concerned in the
present investigation. There could be no doubt that the Noble.
Marquis's intention was to state that which would lead thcii
Lordships to a just and fair conclusion ; but he did not believe
that any other person, with the exception of the Noble Marquis,
would have brought themselves to believe the facts which le
had stated. Now what were the facts of the case? Why, the
papers had not been printed more than a week, and yet the
Noble Marquis, without giving him the slightest notice, or re-
ferring him to a single. document, brought this question forward
in spite of his communication to him, that he was not aware of
the facts connected with the subject; and that he had had no
opportunity whatever of communicating with his Noble
Friend the Secretary for Ireland. He (Lord Normanby
had only arrived from Ireland last, night, and until that aftee:,
noon he had not the slightest knowledge of any intention on the.
part of the Noble Marquis, to bring the motion forward. He
could not take upon himself to allow the publication of these
papers, without inquiring how far they bore on the investiga-
.ion of the question. If the Noble Marquis would now with.
draw his motion and give notice of his intention to bring it
forward on a future day, in order that he might have an
opportunity of communicating with Ireland, then he
would tell him whether he would or would not as..
sent to his motion, and when he came forward, to meet
'the Noble Morquis he should be ready to go point by
point into the whole of the case. He had no desire of conceal-
ment—he was anxious that his decisien on the whole case should
be before their Lordships. Indeed, he had intended himself to
have moved for it, and he had now no objection to assent to
that part of the motion of the Noble Marquis, and he would
sec what further part he could assent to when he had had suf-
ficient time to make enquiries on the subject. He (the as
quis of Normanby) thought that it was impossible to attrib
that importance to the matter which the Noble M
quie
thought it entitled to—it arose out of the excitement aorf-nis
election. He thought that no party were entirely free fr an
blame, but no party required further notice to be taken
ofaxia
than the intimation of his opinion. When he told
the
House that it was six months since he had looked
into
the papers, he thought the House would take a different
view to that of the Noble Marquis, as to the fairness
of calling for the papers at the present moment, especially when
he had told the Noble Marquis that if he would only give no-
tice he would be glad to adopt any course that would be most
convenient. He (the Marquis of Normanby) thought the ap-
pearance of the benches of that House did not say much for the
importance of the subject the Noble Marquis had brought for-
ward. He pledged himself to prove, when time had been given
him to look into the papers, that Mr. Brooke was a most
honourable matt, and that the insinuations of the Noble 'Mar-
quis that Mr. Brooke had been influenced by a desire to look to
the Government for support, were totally unwarranted and un-
justifiable. He thought the insinuations of the Noble Marquis
would lower him in the esteem of that House and the country,
and he defied him to prove them. He would also defy bins 1.-
prove the statements that he had made against Mr. Drum.
mond. That gentleman held a public office, and
must tell the Noble Marquis that lie had feelinle
as well as himself. He did not believe that the combo''
piirsued by the Noble Marquis—the unwarrantable and unjusti-
fiable course he had pursued, would have been adopted by ale.
other Noble Lord in that House. He would not impute motive
to the Noble Marquis, but his ideas of his duty appeared to ,
(Lord Normanby) to be very different from the generality
men. As the Noble Marquis had alluded to Mr Shiel,ytl'
Magistrate, and had stated that he (Lord Normanby) ought •
have been impeached for appointing him, he would just advi
to a letter from the Magistrates of Westmeath to that eenth -
wan ; but before he did so, he would say that he belies
bins ;to be a most excellent and efficient Matsist'r:
and that he had never seen any reason whatever to regret
appointment. The letter to which he would advert, from li.
Magistrates of Westmeath, stated that they were convinced
had never sat drinking in a public-house, and that his character
was perfectly free from all such imputations. He (Lord Ncrs
manby) had begun by stating that he would not answer the
Noble Marquis now, but he should have no objection to de se
when he had all the facts and details before him.—(Hear.)
The Earl of WICKLOW was not surprised at the anxiety
his Noble Friend to bring forward the present subject, becale
in the papers before the House severe accusations were mees
against him. He wished for an explanation on one poi, ,
which was, how it happened that the Counsel appointed by ;h„
Noble Marquis opposite, to go into the country to investigate
the matter, had net made any repot t ? In his opinion the pas,ere
furnished would be of no value without a report; and he hop,i
that the Noble Marquis would adopt some means of ascertain.
inn the truth of the documents.
The Marquis of .NORMANBY believed there were nn
other papers to be laid upon the table of the House. Mr.
Brooke he believed was of opinion that the wholeesn ,
affairiowas of
a very trivial nature, and his (Lord Normanby' s) s) d
much in conformity with the opinion
of
M r
Brooke,
to ,e
nothing.
great deal had been made of that which amounted .
report, his astonishment
for
areat number of the Cs;es'el
Lord HOLLAND thought if the Noble Earl felt surprietel
that Mr. Brooke had not made a
extend to the whole sessioni.,
inthatg and the other House of
minces who had sat, b°
Parliament, had only reported the evidence, and
felt b. end
and not mede
any particular report u
to deprecate the motion of the
H
the facts.
a Noble Marquis, on accouie
its being brought forward without notice.
5,,,e
adopted by Mr. Brooke
a trivial nature that the course
bbl the only one he Id I was
Lord CLOIN CURRY considered that the matter was o' h
not only the best but pro a y
WESTMEATIIwe
replied—He denied that
pursued.
against Mr. Drummond ' (;a
he t prove by documents. He had never ace
he could no .
public-hous
Mr. Sind of drinking in a pub .e. st,,hat
cused •
31headAfaartqauted's ofanytling
h use The Noble Marquis had stated that lie hmi
lie hail stated was, that Mr. Shiel had been found '
a public- 0 •
pursued a course which no ether man in that House would have
adopted. In answer. to that he begged to say that the course ha
.h—es(itation in an-
Hear. )
pursued was one which he conscientiously believed to be right,,
and in addition he would say that it was his firm conviction that
the manner of conducting the government of Irelaml which
had been adopted by the Noble Marquis would have been pee_
hcaodu
It
or y
iii
ceding to the wish of the Noble Marquis in withdrawing his
suedeist:e heot hNeTrolll'4ldoobnl el
y Lord
sa3, , that in
thhee
intention to renew it
motion, giving notice of hison a future

day.
'I. he Marquis of NORMANBY hoped the House would not
suppose that he acquiesced in the opinion that Mr. she.,l
wit
guilty of ar.y of the offences with which the Noble Marquis
had charged him.
The Marquis of WESTMEATH said, it was not pimply
Mr. Shed he charged, but the whole of the party.
The Marquis of NORMANBY, at all events. hoped •
Lordships would not make up their minds upon the sol„ ''r
until they had read the whole of the evidence. He was 'cct
ever, bound to say, that whatever the other qualities were' 1%11,
the Noble Marquis possessed, there was one which he eutirdhi.
deny him, that of perseverance.
1 he LORD CHANCELLOR brought in a Bill for the re, u,
lation of Borough Courts.
The House then Adjourned, at a QI7ARTER. To EL
O'CLOCK, to Thursday. ar

HOUSE OF COMMONS, FED. 19.
The SPEAKER took the chair at five minutes before T
o'Clock.
Mr. CHRISTOPHER presented petitions froul Li.