The Sun.
London, England, 1808-01-29 00:00:00

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ealieny- the Nob! /Lit I•;itn.l-Irt3tlltir the e
agreeable neeessi:,• 'of opposing tbept‘esent Motion 4
ansl. it suet had b:.‘ert his opinion Weloie,certaiely
nething that bad been said by the NOble.Lord•could.
have the effed of altering his determination. it was
unpleasant to objea to a motion. of this kind, .be-
cause the party principally intereated was brought
befOre the liodse •by no fault.Tolita '9WII. It was
u4leasant to ohjeEt to what was aslied, in.. their
name though not by them. it...wasunpleastint also
because' there* was an idea thid,Where praise was
withheld there was at intention to cast blame. Cer-
tainlyhere there was no room for eny sect) -construc-
tion as that, for he subscribed' most heartily and
elieerfully,to all that had been said of the meritorious,
conduct of theartuy and navy in all that had been
stone; they had done all that men ought to do'e The
inoderation and temper with Which ,they had con-
cluEted themselves served to mitigate the harshness
'of the enterprize on which they were 'employ( d. It
wai certainly right to keep the merits: of the. army
and navy distinct from the 'Merits or demerits. of,
Mitiisters ; and.to separate the consideration, of the
'order frotn that-dithe ,executive. ,But it wasesot so
easy to separate; and keen distin& the nature and
'cliraaer ofthe. service. The tiatnre of the service
waS'alsveysone of the indispensable rules by which
peblie gratitude was 'Measured. Tip all Military in-
nalS; there we rebistatices of astreat perSanal merit
in the Minutest actions as in the operations on the'
largest scale ; iu 'single Ships, in 'Packets, as there
skas lately a brilliant exatriple, it! 'actions ot boats.
Ih air these cases there was.. as much mirage, as
much-zeal, as much Mucli true contenipt
of
„death as in the .entageriapts of great fieets -and
arinies; yet-these cases were trot considered of suflti-.
etcht niai.:otitude to call for the Thanks of Parliament.'
It was also bcyond.a question, that there as greater
merit hi effMlrig a jticlicious retreat, before 'a su-
perior enemy; than in hazarding a battle under
every prospect of defeat. sanction-of the al)«
probation of Parliament would be. particularly called
kr its such a -case' to , rescue. merit from ignorant
censure. Success was no criterion in point of jus-
tice, but in point of practice it was rand 'it Was'
only as -the etnanetiOn of national qxultition, upon
great success and great public'serVice, thitthe Thanks
of Parliament ought properly to be
.regdfded,--We
'should be able to say, this' is a sUbjeet on which
every heart gives a, loose to joy; this is the expre,s--
mon of the general feeling, and the triumph of the
People. is made manifest by the grateful acknow-
ledgments of the Legislature. But who could . say
that the present was_ a case in which every heart
exulted. This was not :a case siroilar. to, aliet in-
whitth• British troops had conquered thetkonquerers,
Of the world; where those whtehad assumed, the,
titles of.invitacible were met without arty advantage
of numbers, man to man; and yielded to,..,the seps«
riority of British prowess. That., indeed, was ia
• triumph %yeah fifty navies of Denmark.
Public feetin-g was not acted upon, but counteracted,
by. his I‘Ljesty's Ministers ; but first by. those self-
elleote4 Judges, who relt nut the impertaoce 9f open-
ing new sources ot glory, as was done at Maida e'but
•who were tiled with exultation at the opening of ,
nee. sources of commerce 5 those Judges who ac-
quitted when the King's Ja.eiges condemned; and
conduct was such as to induce .a, guilty;.,
11;)flieer. to,•say to himself, .€t 00 matter. if the ;
sTudgee named by. my. Sovereign condemn me, pre
-
aided I. am a hero in Lloyd's.';. Any person, however
iestly, negatived 4, the Koper, trfl)nual, may say:, " L
‘Rillary etiaer Catila, if. a King loses .a knave wins,-.
to here 1i o.s agaitt."--Thus a new trip tves pp 4
and the moan who, was letely,conlenned, is put to
cominandAhose. who eUhtlenme4. Intu, Noble
lio‘/d was., no doubt,, thoroughly. satisfied of the gel!,
neral exultation of, the Cettetryi,at the finccess,.efAird
Expedition' brit the pain lie. 4114i4yd eipiOsed
himself to have felt, arrested ,his, assertion; arfd-did
Vlore justice to, his disposition and principles. 'Jo
feel 'pain rot' \VII* Was Ouse! iladttiss;'..pre'veci
that the jiy.'• 'Ohs. iecomplefee' -It Wai,iiorneWhat
like the jay'of.a mate, who; to sdVe the- life Of
bon, 'was obliged;: to' have. IttrcUt Off, end'' had.
Lim ever' after (Tittle; an'tte very sober' chastided
oy that was,-". Whether:the'cansc of joyin:this case
ay' not afterwardi'aft wait' not pre,'
pared to Say. ficeiviitier'stiyetittif the ser;
rice done at Copenhavo„wk not One that aceorila,
ittgto the vneral,praNce,;thsocb..CeSes,,appearetl,to
excite general .eXUltatidn:—Firitla' the 1144 a w 4.1, ciro
tainly a 6pr:that:Ng MajestyVAlittiatirrevishedllie
Country to exult. But lie lamonted that .sueh'a
invitation had been gi‘eu, where. :.:.ifrOwfor the ne-
cessity of using force, and sympathy for link berg r-
-ings`btedglit upon the Danci, wad in the MoUtl.ts.of
isle Majesty's. Ministers, and in the leans of the
Pritidt people. It was opt merely'a want of pro-
priety that
.I.vas to,becompluittednf in such an
cula-
tiiciuus demonstration, but want .of policy, as we
',nay yet have-: to sutler a severe'perielty from the
wrath of an exasperated people, ' It was, doirahle,
-certainly, to acknowledge the merits. of tee Army
and Navy if that could be done without injury. But
"Ilk those ingredients were •wanting which create: ge-
seeral exultation, and of which that exultation is. the'
`test ; 'if tite7Watit. of these ingredients prevent a re-
.treat, ,bowever meritorioua,, obtaieing the
thanks of Parliament, how can those thanks be
claithed in tliepref.eat instance. If.ihe case was one
in Wadi: ueilher the policy nor the prk.lice of the
Country was conformed to ; it neither the success
nor the itee,mt4q(3.* was.ennaixed, be was also pfeparea -
t 0 go the' of saying, that as me e. military.
"val. Prote. eding, the service was ncsi. ,one en-
%idea to the thanli. s of'tho House. The Al'iny and
'LlavY did all tile)? could ; but what wais..,elene clid
Mot deserve the thanks ot rho 1-louse. 1.16. k Noble
"wits unwilling to ghre all the merit to the Offi-
cers, as he sornetinits seetned.disposed to. doA lest he
should take it from the men and again he seemed
unwilling to give it all t(i) the men, 'lest lie 'should
takeat from. the Officers.• •.TheeNoble Lord did not
know whether to-take it in meal or in malt. Theu
the Noble Lord seemed to think the glory belonged
to the Transport . and• Vianalling Boards, 'and thus
While these Boards' did the service the Army and
Navy werethanked. hit fitqqg.out.an Ettiediiam)
was certainly a service, but it was a 6ervicealabouri
inch. . fluty be performed.: at ,POrtineatith cir'Ply7
service of fitting out add briegilig
kYily the paiixl)',Sliii)fi of, die kun-e'llati4re;-Ife :'
Grid n64.14461' cif a-Con'ichissionClr
3'mrd• who hi:(1 twee made 4. .Peter „oor -of a Master
Attet daet vvbo had nad it' Red Ittbbanet, In other
the titles o; giro honoured Commanders had

11
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Vitok-

been taken froet the
scene et n' slice svese, tee eidow liim alleouea Le Went so ear as te tea),
titles of Earl St, Vincent's, Lord Netedn'oritie Nile, i him' hiM to do so, by seaming to imply, that
and Lord Duncan of Catuperdown. Writs.'siti)ilar • the
.Expedition, W:is undertaken, pot froM a sense
lefereece to bernade in the case in.,qttesticid. Had I which his ,Nlajesty's Ministers enterteined of the
any medal been struck to cemmeMorate the service. I high end imoettant service they were rendering
Tower Wharf and . Plymouth Dock would crake ! their Country, but becatise it contributed to their
eqoally greed and sighifeenet additions to titice e and been advantage, and led to their continuance in offiee,
ihr aegmentations of arms, tareberrels, and lighters i fle left it to the cooler judgineet
.of the Right Hone
Would come, in amazing,ly to the purppse. The : 'Gentleman himielltesay,whether hereally drought
Noble Lord 'said, it had nets been jadged pendent to i this was their motive. With regard to the question
bring the British Fleee 164 against thnbetteries of : before the Weise, he thatif the Right Hod.
Copenhagen, and that was the reason why the Ships ± Gentleman's objedions to giving thanks in certain
were not more a&ively employed ; then camellia i cases were admitted, thel would be very prejudices'!
'Commissioners of Viduallinge then the, extreme- I to the service. He seemed tube of opinion that they
dipary preparation, to prevent, the Danes from ; ought to be conferred in no case except inone atilt,
being prepared to meet us with adequate resist- utmost exultation and triumph, of, feeling, .unmixed
ace, then the 'great amount of the Danish pre ii with a single painful consideration. The Right Ho-
parations, and then the merit 'of 'the , 'Freespeht •i nourable Gentleman had asserted; that it was high-
Board. Thus what the Noble Lord gayer. with i]y meritorious, by A jedicioni eetreate to secare the
one hand he took away . With the other. Go-e I safety of an army eer a navy, but that the House
vernment sent a force sufficient to render resistance I had never contemplated such a service as the pro-
unavailing; and in this principle they.were right; .: peilebjea.df their Thanks. The Eight Hen. Gen-
then came the difficulties to •be conquered, and 1 tleman seemed to have forgotten the tem of Admi-
the' resistance's hich it` was such a merit to have 1 ral Cornwallis, who had received the Thinks of Par-
overcome. Then the Noble Lord said a force had 1 liaivent, not fora viapry, but for a retreat, " for
been colleaed which was sufficient to render sue e the ability, judgment, and ..bravery, which he had.
cess difficult and doubtful, and this lays the founda- displayed in the presence of a superior fleet of the
tion fora compliment to the skill of the Comman. enemy." There were other instances he which that,
der. ' It.was not to' be doubted that the zeal of the ! Home had voted their Thanks,. and. which were of,
Danish inhabitants led them to do every thing that i a different descriptioe from that to which the Right
could be expeaed from them ; but they were not a i Hon. Gentleman was desirous such an honour should
force of such a description as an Officer bred to re- ) exclusively belong. The Thanks of Parliament had
guitar warfare would take credit to himself for hr.-- I been given to' the Governments of Madras and Bottl-
ing overcome. He thought it a thing to be depre- bay, for their coriduel in forwarding the views of the
Gated, that in the midst of the services everyday ' GovernotsGe.neral ofeledia: The Thanks of 'Parlia,
passing; any glory should be taken from the reduce I meet had been gives, to-Lord Hood for the important
Lion of Copenhagen'. -Tho fact was, the city Waft re, I servicewitich belied reodei esi tetheCoutury in taking
duced by the distress brought on it by the boMbard- ,poseession of Cersicaetithough unaccampeoied by any
Meet. fle, did net condemn the bombardment as 'fereat military exertions. ' It' thel
Right Hon. Gen-
a means of reducing tie town, but he did not think ; tleman's idea on this subject, that when a service
it a foundation.on which to build a struaure of i was peculiarly painful, to the feelings of Offieeri,
glory. On' these grounds, considering the question 1 they. ought not to be treated with se much :gratitude
as entirely distind from the conduot.of his Majesty's I for -their meritorious execution of such a service, as'
Ministers, he did not think the service deserving the I if the service had been of a less painful natures. was
thanks of the House. To bestow such a reward olive introduced as a principle, it would be, produce
where it was 'eot deserved was to under values and I tive,of injurious consequences. An Officer leas not to,
&mettle the reward itself. ' It would have the effea I examine the nature ea the service entrusted to him ;
of diminishing the estimation of it where it had, I his business was to exeeute it. The. Right Honour--
been already given, and to sink the ambition to f able Gentleman seemed desirous of withholding ap-
eeek /it in fature. He again lamented the merks.of eplatue from our Commanders in. the Expedition to
exultation so improperly displayed, by way of een- I,Copenhagen, because , they had behaved with tem-
e-ast, he supposed, to the ateuel'itorrow thee pre- i•, per and moderation. if they had proceeded •initnee
veiled. He also lamented, however high hisexte id'diately to batter the town—ifehey hid iehinit by,a
sonel respect for these individuate, the geailf of the ,"military achievement, the Right Honotirohle Gen- '
Peerage to Lord Cathcart auciLerd Gambier. He e‘lemati's objections must have fallen to the ground.
knew and lived in terms of; intitnacy with bott, and ! --eForhis part, he conceived tint their conduct teas
had a high esteem for their chardaers, both in their highly meritorious for iteaemper and moderation.—
profession and out of it.. Lord Cathcart had served ', At the :same .tithe they bud taken care not -to
meritoriously in the Artily everedoce ~ the American ; hazard the otije# they had in view. The. Right
war; and Lord Gambier, though not, seiscouslantly t honourable Gentlemen appt;ared also , to think,
employed in adive service at sea, had greeoyelistin- ! that nothing 'had been done by the - Navy,
guished himself as a Captain in Lord Howe's eaten. and that -if the Thanks of the .House were voted
Still he thought the services performed,by, them on s to the Army, at least theyeteghte not to be voted .
this occesioe did not warrant flint exertion of the . to the Navy. Wild a single instance be found
rerogative in their favour, and he highly Warned ! of.', conjunet Expeaion, in which because one' ile-
itis
Majesty.'s Ministers for advising their Sovereign ,:'scription of force did only all that it -could do, the
to grant these honours, and for proposing .these I Thanks of Parliament we're withheld train it. I.?,eee
Thanks. If any thing should be kept distinct, front when the ' Navy had only landed the troops in '
party feelings, it, was the granting of these naeeland ersgypt, .for hese:nee; in ewhich tibbough the :'.l ivy
military rewards, without any other reotive than the . certainly made'' excellent arrangetneets. fir the die-
Consideration of mere military merit. Would the embarkation of the Alloy, yet by the latter the
honours hestowed on thAseOtlicers acquit the Noble . Victory was won, the Thanks of Parliament
Lord of the,censure that would attach to the nature i were voted to both. He hoped the House would
of the ExPedition ?e•Woeld it not rather be con-, make• no disticiaton between the sereieet. - He
chided thee. ,thieve honours were not granted with a hoped the Housewould separate the preeent quese
view-la-the service' of the :Country, but rather tion,frpme the questiou of the policy of the Aiwa-
to strengthen and reward-party attachment ? Thin sure. He hoped the House would not refuse
sort of grant was an instance of the wprst species their Thanks to the Officers • engaged in this
of Ministerial• corruption, inasmuch as it went Expedition, because they ‘ had executed a painful
to the destru&ion of that fund of hpnorary rewards, I and heart-breaking duty. He repeated, that it cer-
tainly was a painful and heart-breakine duty. He
do Which the, poorest man in the country, if
the case were properly explained to him, or even . had never contemplated the subject, either before or
without
.would any explanation, on the pure impulse of since the Expedition had taken erect,, but as a
feeling,
feel his interest more matertelly most painful duty. Still, - however, it'-was a. duty..
Volved and aWtet.t, than id the most wasteful ex- ' It had been 'performed with as little injury to the
pencliture of the produce of the taxes.. A Pension t Power attacked as possible. The question was,
frmiworthily baldived 'on one, :would remain a re- whether the House would refuse their approbation
compenee of no loss value .for another ; but,a title to Officers who'hed reddered a most important ser-
of honour, or a vote.el thanks, would sick in va,ine, , vice to the Nation,- by diminishing that force which,
both as to this past and the future, upon every misa but for their exertions, would probably, • ere this,
Implication flint aie tgratitiog. of either was subjected have been, joined with the Enemy in the Invasion
to. The .House ikas now called upon by layishing of this Country. . . . . ,
eseeards to cast a felse lustre on an ad . of doubtful Mr, TI ER NEY observed, that the only distina
justice and policy ;it was hoped that this vote would grounda'which the Right Hoe. Gentleman had state
hafei in egect, not unlike, in its principle, though - ed for voting the Thanks of ' the House td the Army
optteefte in itloperatim, to those torfeitures of.hoe and Navy on this occasion were, that with him they
uenr4e wh.leliedp former, tunes, were devi.ied to cast had felt the.painfulness of
.the duty they had to pare
in additional horror on crienes. But the nature of form,
,and that they had ext,cuted that painful duty
the stratagem would ho canvassed indexpoSed, tied with all possible moderattore : Were these to be the
the public would Join hien in thinking suchelisttnc- grounds of Thanks 'anti: Peerageal Wes humahity
lions a shame retherehae an honour. le woeldbe . so rare among our Cormnerelees that it was tuts to
like the case of a worthy Barenet cSir Bro-oke Wet- ', be rewarded ? The Right Honourable Gentleman
son) late a Member Of that Heine, who having to . had 'spoken with more edvantage' then the Noble
go in the city pageant. ell .Lord, Mayor's' Day, and • Lord, because he had bed soniethiug to reply to. The
being nsked what. he intended tp do with his wooden ' Noble Lord had etated a case with very little materiels',
leg, answered with'great good humour, that he I and reatV oil thii 06:asion tiegavehiro the eractit which
meant, to gild it; Big, said n the other, you must he had always given Ithn, of makieg as'nmelf out of
nut think of, that, it would,make yog quitq sridieu- a little as any man in that House: i The 'present Art-
lous by displeying.yoer. delea so curs pi ministration werepledged to do something-46w elthe
'lbis was. the case with his Majesty'e.ginisters.— , ordinary coarse. What- they had done was out of
They were gilding their, wooden leg, ,eitd.exposiog it the ordinary course indeed.! They had attacked by
to, public moekery, by endeavouring ' to
.get a take surprise-.,seine say by treachery—the Danish Vieet,
honottr. to themselveseand making, the Penh Coin- .in a manner which-he would' not now discuss. Of
manders'their instrumeete, . The gereice performed .: this a& they were bound to make the. most. If they
was not such as to-,tuerit the honour or, thp Altanks,; • had not fired' guns:And made Peers upon it, when
and thqrefore,, he tiding on the saute principle on ' woe it likely that they would be able to fire guns and
which he declined‘tnoving A Vote of Thanks for the , Male Peers ? They had beep laiish of hotfoots to ail
capture of the Cape of,Goed Hope, protested against, exteto which mast give serious pain t- all who con-
themisapplication, °fa waisis aisted trust, which ought side* tile proper exercise of this- prerogative of
Dever to be exercised without the greatest circuit).- rayallY as a delicate and important point. With-
'speaton, add Which wouldebe. soon destroyed ilex- ,' oee'refleaing in the - Most remote ineimer •on
ercisettinconsiderkteiy or. improperly. ~ , ~ -i those`hy ;whom the honours had hem obtained;
. elfreßßeiND.observed, in ,addition;to.the.argu- he cOutended that the *hole history of the douiks
ments that had been ,SO eblykurged by the , Right try.did not furnish. a single instance of honours :o
1-104,.,Gentieman, that by voting the Thanks of Par-, -obtained., Unit% dimmed, be .hoped they would
'lament to those Officers who had been engeged,in long edipy.therte, He was eenvitteed that the par-
the-Expedition to Copenhagen, the House would ties 'themselves must have heeu . surprised at the
prejudge the general merits of. that measure. . di)tinctions,,which -they had received, more wipe-
The C Hil NC $L LOB (if the. &WEI RQ(..I Eft paili.lhe gallant Admiral at the head of :the naval
.•
did not conceive that-, the House, by their Vote of dePartment of Eepedition. . What service had
that nigitt, wouldedn the smiillt :degree, be
,pro-: hp performed' I He need, not sey, that he could
eluded front judging on the police at thermeesure .have no motive for depreciating 00 nie'rit of An
itself..
.He could -not but 'wish, . however, that- the , Otbcer whom lie highly ref ectodi ..11.0•44)11,ct
Right Hon. Gentleman had ab*tai•6i4 from such ob.- was, there war;nothing
_l4 the ,Nasky to do, except
servations• on the Espi...ditinn, as skewed that his what
.wopld, he catleci at a review,---kecping thc
mind was illQuenced oe I ite present
.questinn by Lis'
,ground; or at alm,4,:,itig In•Ydll—:itlllig thenn, i',114
,
opinion on !het whielewes to he disculteattt a f,ntire seeing, fair.pl4y, He wished lie' (;Onid NT,: ai on
period. Thweett these 'Observations lie would not this .subjeret to a moat Olen% Office!. (sir A. Wellip.