The Sun.
London, England, 1837-02-09 00:00:00

r the purpose of assisting such poor men as were incarce-
rated for tithes, who were committed to prison on illegal
grc nods, ne Lord Plunket had lately decided—it was for this
pv epose the Assoeiation first determined to collect small sums
al money a, and. Mr. Pigott, the gentleman so calumniated last
'night, only person who opposed it, a gentleman whose
conduct nt the late Longford electien drew commendation even
froml:ts enemies. The Association was called a convention.
I:Vhy, even that House owed its existence'and authority to con-
veralions—the King owed his Crown to conventions. Wererd
t'ecre not conventions in Ireland in 1782, of which Lo
loon re and other distinguished men were members? It
'was idle to say such conventions were illegal. It was said
the Association by the resolution they came to had outlawed
a Noble and Learned Lord. Was not Dr. Lucas outlawed in
Ireland, and Mr. Wilke in England, for supporting the liber-
ties of the country ? If the Association outlawed any person
they took care to have some just cause for it. The Learned
Sergeant (Jackson) attacked a host of persons last night (the
recut Member gave the names), and among the rest Lady
llulgrave. They had fought the battle at the registry, as
the Right Hon. Baronet recommended, and fought it suc-
cessfully. He could tell the House that the present Member
for Drogheda would not be returned again, that the Member
for Carlow might take his leave. They had been also suc-
cessful in the registries at Athlone, Belfast, and Sligo. The
city of Dublin was not certain, but the county of LongfOril
was settled, and they would return two for the county of Car-
kw. Mr. Yigors must come in, and that, too, without a
struggle. In the county of Donegal they were certain at
least of one. The county of Cork was safe for one Members
but as to Monaghan and Cavan 'no could say nothing positx:e
as yet. The Queen's County was certain. With respect to
Bandon, the result depended upon one, so that the Learned
Sergeant (Sergeant Jackson) was hanging between heaven
and earth. On the whole they would gain fifteen. votes, which
were equal to thirty. They had a majority of fib before : they
would after the next election have a majority of from 110 to
130. The society would &se olve itself when justice wasdone
to Ireland, but never till they had acquired equal rights with
the other subjets of the empi re.
Mr. LEFROY could as, ore the Hon. Gentleman that he
was mistaken in his calculai .ions, and would find but a small
account of his long list 'a i any succeeding Parliament. He
had been appealed to with regard to his opinion as to the le-
gality of this Association.. He entirely agreed with his Hon.
and Learned Friend (S ergeantJackson)that it was an illegal
assembly. It was obvi, usly united to oppose the law and de-
feat the rights of prop'arty. The Lord Lieutenant of Ireland
was fond of romancing, and, in consequence of this propensity.
after his wild tour of the west opened the prison doors of Ire-
land, thereby, in his •ovisdom, substituting for the wisdom of the
Judges the opinions of the gaolers and the opinions of his owr
private secretary fc,r those of the Secretary for Ireland. With
one who thus obvn.ned the law it was impossible to think that the
Noble Lord oppo site could deem it an honour to be associated.
He had one ser'nus charge to make against the Lord Lieute-
nant, which, if be could not support, he deserved to be co-
vered with shame. The Lord Lieutenant had been guilty of
setting aside tin nine instances gentlemen perfectly competent
to fill the vifice of high sheriff—men who had been approved
by the Judges of the land, and others substituted in their
stead. The practice in Ireland for 20 years was that sheriff,
should be appointed by the Lord Lieutenant, on the recom-
mendation of county Members who supported the Govern-
ment. In June, 1816, Sir J. Newport pointed this out as a
great political evil, and as calculated to poison justice at its verb
source. The Right Hon. .Member for Tamworth, then Se-
cretary for Ireland, admitted the evil, and pledged himself
that Ireland should be subjected to the same system which
was acted upon in England, namely, that the going Judges o:
Assize should make out a list which should afterwards be sub-
jected to the twelve judges and the Lord Chancellor; and that
out of these the Lord Lieutenant should make his selection.
Lord Plunket who was then in this HOLM'. on On
same side with Sir John Newport, admitted the advantage
which this plan would confer upon Ireland. The plan win
adopted, and, since then, with but one exception, was acted
upon by every Lord Lieutenant, whether Whig, Tory, oe
mixed, until last year. Last year a return was made bt
the Judges, which had been scrutinised in the usual man-
ner. Lord Mulgrave thought fit to pass by this list in nini
instances, and to substitute others instead of any of the twenty-
seven gentlemen who had been recommended. It would Le
well to know the grounds upon which Lord Mulgrave de-
parted from a rule which Lord Plunket bad declared would
be so beneficial to Ireland—(Hear)—and reverted to a system
which, according to Sir J. Newport, poisoned the fountains of
justice at its very source. A charge had been made against
Lord Mulgrave, which he took his place in the House of
Lords for one night to answer. The charge was made by e
Mr. Leigh, who, being appointed to the office of High She-
riff, and being notified to that effect, was, when he came ti
the Castle, told to go back, as his appointment was not to be
confirmed. Mr. Leigh petitioned the House of Lords, stat-
ing the circumstance. Lord Mulgrave admitted the charge.
and, throwing himself on the clemency of the House, stated.
in explanation, that he had been informed that Mr. Leigh Via=
a member of an Orange lodge. The rule which his Lordship
laid down for himself when going to Ireland was that hr
would not appoint any person to any office who belonged tc
secret and exclusive political societies. This guarded and
critically worded rule opened a door wide enough for alt
those belonging to the National Association. In the case of
Mr. Leigh, however, Lord Mulgrave admitted that he had
been misinformed, and that gentleman had been appointee
High Sheriff this year. This whispering of Mr. Leigh ou
of his office at the suggestion of the Solicitor General showed
how mischievous the principle was. He thought that the
Lord Lieutenant had acted in such a manner a, to create s
doubt of the impartiality of the administration of justice le
Ireland.—(Cheers.)
Mr.. WA KLEY deprecated the irregularity which had in-
troduced as the leading, subject of the debate a matter wholly
incidental, and had left the real question—that of the right of
the Irish people to Municipal Corporations—comparativel)
untouched.—(Hear, hear.) He knew that the fault had ori-
ginated on that (the Ministerial) side of the House, yet he net
the less condemned it.—(Hear, hear.) To come to the real
question before the House—the Municipal Corporations of Ire-
land. One expres,ion that had fallen from the Hon. Member
fir Bradford required notice. That Hon. Member had said that.
if the people of Ireland were of the same description with :lir
people of England and Scotland, he would not desire to refute
them the enjoyment of municipal privileges. Now. much hat'
been said of certain expressions used in the other House, bug
could anything be more offensive to the whole Irish native
than those words of the Hon. Member? What did the word
" description" mean ? The Hon. Member would of course
admit that in physical constitution and moral oblieatioes the
people of Ireland bore some resemblance to the English anti
Scotch, that they belonged to the same class of animal beings
that the babes of Leland sucked their nutriment from tic
same source as those of England, that they belonged to the
class marihuana.
Mr. HARDY explained that he had said, " if their conduct
was the same." Conduct was the word be uied.
Mr. WAKLEY— As the Hon. Member disavowed the ex-
pression, he ( Mr. Wakley) was bound to intice it no fin-the.%
but he had taken down the words when used. He was very glad
the Hon. Gentleman had not meant to use them. If the Irish
people were not to have Municipal Corporations, why was the
Emancipation Bill passed ? The avowed object of that mea-
sure was to relieve the Irish Roman Catholics from civil and
religious disebilite. That Bin admitted the gentry of Ireland
to Parliament—n.hy should they hesitate to allow to the citi-
zens of Ireland the management of their own affairs ? The
reason was that they Wera Roman Catholics, and n) other.
—( Hear, hear.) If Mu:deipal Reform were denied, then was
the Emancipation Act ono of the groe'est frauds ever imposed
on a nation.—( Hear.) He called on the Right Hon. Baronet
opposite to shake off the lethargy that bad latterly enchained
him, to throw off the shackles that allied him to a bigotted fac-
tion, and to act again on the principle of his celebrated decla-
ration in 1829, when he said that, " Although he had all elong
opposed Catholic Emancipation, he would now yield to the
moral necessity which demanded it." Let him now again
yield to moral necessity. That state of things had again
-
arisen. The people of Ireland bad, with one voice, declared
that they looked for the full advantages of Emancipation.
Mr. WEST—As one of the persons who took a part in the
proceedings of the Protestant meeting in Dublin, and who en-
tirely concurred in every resolution passed at that meeting, he
hoped he might presume to address some observations to the
House.—(Hear, hear.) The course which the debate had
taken had, whether intended or not, involved him in some dif-
ficAty. The Noble Lord the Secretary for the Home De-
partment had come down to the House a few nights ago, and
in announcing his intention to introduce a very important
measure had also expressed his determination to enter upon
the subject of the resolutions passed at the Dublin meeting ;
and to open and discuss the whole subject of his Majesty's
Government in Ireland.—( Hear, hear, hear.) The Noble
Lord kept his word. Of a speech of great ability and consi-
derable length, three-fourths were devoted to the motives and
insignificance of that meeting.—(Hear, hear.) Then came
the reply of his Hon. and Learned Friend. He knew not
to what Hon. Gentleman on the opposite side the duty of
answering that speech was allotted— ( Cheers)—for that duty
was still to be performed ;—(Loud cheers)—that eloquent
and admirable speech, which the candour even of his adver-
saries would admit presented a powerful case in defence of
his friends, and a strong inculpation of the measures of his
opponents.--( Hear, bear.) In this situation the Hon. Mem-
ber for Bath came forward, and undertook to deliver a very
eloquent lecture to the Representatives from Ireland at
both aides of the House--(Laughter)—not only upon the
unfitness of their conduct to the usages of Parliament,
but also upon the grace and propriety of their gesticulation.
—( Much laughter.) And he would say that, as a moral
teacher or an instructor in those graces that ought to accom-
pany public speaking, the: sentiments and manner of the Hon.
Gentleman were quite worthy of the character he had as-
sumed.—( Cheers.) But he (Mr. West) could not follow
the Hon. Member. He must rather endeavour to pursue the
Noble Lord. And first, was anything ever heard like the at-
tempt made to give an answer to the speech of his Hon. and
Learned Friend ?—( Loud cheers from the Opposition.) Of
all the charges and all the proofs adduced by him, there was
no allusion made in the reply of the Hon. and Learned Mem-
ber for Kilkenny except upon three points—the appointment
of Mr. Cassidy, the case of Carter, and the conduct of Lord
Mulgrave in discharging the gaols of Ireland—(Cheers)—and
what was the answer to these cases? That the Hon. and
Learned Member had not been aware of the conviction of Mr.
Cassidy for resisting the execution of the law, and suspected
it was not true ; whereas an Hon. Member, the son of the
Lord Lieutenant of the county, was present to vouch the fact,
and therefore there was no doubt upon that subject. Then, as
to Carter's case, no personal attack was made or intended against
Mr. O'Loghlen.—(f, Hear," from Sergeant Jackson.) The
inaccuracy discovered with so much profession of triumph in
the Hon. and Learned Sergeant's speech was, that, in a case
where there were three abortive trials, the first, which might
have gone off, as it did, by an accident, took place when Mr.