The Sun.
London, England, 1830-03-26 00:00:00

CORN TRADE.

The Earl of MALMESBURY moved for two returns—
one of wheat from Ireland, imported into Liverpool between
the 45th of July, 1828, and the sth of January, 18:30—the
other of the returns sent to the proper officer in London
of the wheat purchased at Liverpool and Manchester
during the same period. rle did not at all mean to raise
again the general question as to the corn trade, but be did
mean to say that they ought to understand exactly the
effect of the manner in which the averages were taken, in
e►der that if a very material defect appeared, that defect
might be rectified.
The Earl of LIMERICK approved of the course which
his Noble Friend took, with a view to set the average on a
proper footing.

MALT TAX.
Lord SUFFIELD had three petitions to present from
owners and occupiers of land in the Hundreds of Humble-
yard, Taverbarn, and North Cottingham, in Norfolk, com-
plaining of distress, and praying as a measure of relief fur
the repeal of the. Malt Tax. That was a measure which
would certainly benefit the condition of the lower orders,
as well as the farmers and landowners. Upon an average
of the last years, he could take upon himself to say that
during that period the condition of the farmers of Norfolk
wits Worse than it was ten years ago, notwithstanding the
reductions of taxation which had taken place. The farmer
carried on his business with less capital than at the former
period, and farming was a- losing trade. As to the pro-
tecting duties on corn, he thought that they did very little
service to the farmer or landowner, while, probably, they
did much injury to the manufacturer and other classes of
the community. The farmers were convinced that a re-
peal of the Malt Tax, and a reduction of taxation generally,
would afford them great relief, but many of them did not
expect much from a reduction of rents ; but at the same
time rents must be reduced. He thought that a great
portion of the distresses of the country resulted from
the manner in which the poor laws were admini-
stered. The petitioners prayed relief by a reduction of
taxation, and he agreed with them ; and if relieved in this
manner, they would be able to produce corn so cheap, that
the Protecting Corn Duty might be altogether repealed.
Besides the Malt Tax, he thought that there were several
others, chiefly affecting the poor, which might be mate-
rially reduced or repealed. Such as the taxes upon coals
and candles. He then presented the petitions, which were
laid on the table.

The Earl of ELDON took that opportunity of com-
plaining that what he had said on a former occasion, about
the alteration in the currency, had been grossly misrepre-
sented. What he had said was the very reverse of what
he was stated to have said. Ile also alluded to the ca-
lumnies which had been spread about him, as to his con-
duct while sitting in the Court of Chancery. Whenever
he was rightly blamed, ha had endeavoured to correct him-
self; but, as to unfounded calumnies, he regarded them
with profound contempt.
Lord KING presented a petition from the Jews of Nor-
wich, praying for a removal of disabilities. Also a peti-
tition from some part of Westmeath, against the Irish Ves-
try Bill.

The Earl of WINCHILSEA presented a petition from
the Owners and Occupiers of Land about Romney Marsh,
complaining of distress, and praying for relief.
These petitions were laid on the table.
KENT COUNTY PETITION.

Earl STANHOPE had to present the petition of a
numerous and respectable body of the freeholders of Kent,
and be rose to discharge that duty with peculiar pleasure,
as he fully concurred with the sentiments it expressed.
With respect to the meeting, he certainly should not have
felt it his duty to stay anything, had it not been for what
had fallen on a former occasion from a Noble Friend, who
was the Lord-Lieutenant of the county. He might really
address that Noble Marquis as a friend, after twenty-five
years of intimate acquaintance. That Noble Marquis had
represented that the meeting was called by a political
party, for the purpose of opposing the Government. If
the charge were true, it formed no valid objection to the
petition ; but it was clear that it would be vain and hope-
less for such a party to appeal to the country in this con-
stitutional mode of obtaining their opinion, if the state of
things which they described had no real existence to justify
their assertions. If the freeholders had thought the dis-
tress partial, or bad imagined that it was not under the
controul of Parliament, they would neither have expressed
what they had done, nor have agreed to those resolutions
which had been the groundwork of the petition. The
requisition for the meeting was signed by two Noble
Lords, and by him (Earl Stanhope), but by no member
of the other House. He had stated long since his opinions
with respect to the causes of the present distress, as ope-
rating on the agricultural and manufacturing interests, and
with regard to the currency. To a Government that
acted on the principles which be thought alone would
prove the salvation of the country, they should
have his cordial and zealous support ; but be
should oppose those who acted differently. A Noble
Earl, not now present, had represented that the
cure for this distress was to be found in the reduction of
rents ; but, considering that landlords were now distressed
from that very came, it was lie the talc of the wan who,

when he complained of want of food, Was gravely fold
that the cure was in leaving off eating. He had no
ob-
jection to landlords reducing their rent as much as they
• pleased, but he had a strong objection to their Lordships
passing any measure that would go to deprive others of
their rents. Although he considerd it a great and dan-
gerous delusion to say that taxes were of themselves the
rause of distress, or that that distress eould he materially
relieved by their reduction, it was, however, important
to be known that they had been virtually doubled since
ISI9, and that to pay the eamt nominal amount as was
then levied double the quantity of goods must be sold.
When the tame taxation existed, but the country pos-
sessed greater means of paying it as it did before Isl 9, it
was in a state of prosperitys This generated ill-will be-
tween the different classes of society, and brought them
into collision With each other. A proof of this was that
in tire Kent county meeting of last year the people had
hailed with joy a proposition for the appropriation of
church property. His Lordship here stated several in-
stances in whieh the charges, in the shape of taxes and
tittles, upon land, amounted almost to a confiscation of the
land itself—these charges in some instances being above
double the rent. The petition complained of free trade,
and of the alteration in the currency, and concluded with
praying for Parliamentary Reform. He strongly disap-
proved of Radical Reform, which would practically place
the nation in the hands of men possessed of no property
or stake in it ; but he most say with these petitioners, that
the House of Commons did net express the feelings of the
people, and that a Parliamentary Reform, founded on a
due consideration of the subject, and conducted with pru-
dence, was most fervently to be desired. As there would
he another opportunity for him to discuss this question, as
well as that of free trade, he should now merely move
that the petition be brought up and read.
The :Marquis CAMDEN had not intended to address
the House, and should not have done so but for some of
the remarks which hail fallen from the Noble Earl who
had just addressed their Lordships. In what lie had
stated on a former night, he certainly had not intended to
deny the existence of distress—but he meant, as far as
his observation and opinion went, that the distress was not
eo great as it had been represented to be, not only by the
Noble Lord who had just sat down, but by others both in
and out of that House. Es-en if Kent should, however,
prove to he more distressed than he bad imagined, it was
no answer to his statement; for that county was pecu-
liarly circumstanced. It might suffer the most severe
distress, and yet that distress might not be general
throughout the kingdom, so that the Noble Earl
would not be justified in saying that the country was in a
state of general distress. The amount of the hop duty,
together with the extremely low price of that article, left
the cultivators of it in a state of severe distress ; and such
might he the case there and in Sussex, and yet the distress
might not be general. He concluded by declaring himself
opposed to the views of the Noble Earl.
After a few words from Earl STANHOPE,

The Earl of WINCHILSEA said that, having been re-
quested by the petitioners, who were men inferior to none
in loyalty and worth, to present the petition, he considered
that he should he wanting in that respect which he really
felt for the character of the men, if he remained silent upon
the occasion. He would nor, however, trespass long upon
the attention of the House, as he proposed to confine him •
self to some of the views of the petitioners. He would
not occupy their Lordships' time in dwelling upon the dis-
tress of the people ; he would not enter into the afflicting
details of their circumstances and condition of that great
class and body who were connected with the agricultural
interests in that part of the empire. Ile would not trouble
them with proving that there was a great diminution of
wealth and capital amongst the occupiers of the soil.—
Heart-rending indeed would it he to lay before their Lord-
ships the scenes which he had witnessed. Freeholdtrs,
who It id once lived surrounded by their families in com-
fort and happiness, were now borne down by those bur-
thens with which they were unequally and unfairly op-
pressed, and were compelled to part with that patrimony
which had been acquired by the honest industry of their
forefathers—with that cottage home and the land attached
to it which must have been as dear to them as his princely
palace and splendid demesne could be to the proudest Peer
of the realm; and now in the last years of an industrious
and blameless life, they were consigned to a subsistence
upon that scanty pittance to which they were once the
chief contributors.—(Hear, hear, hear. )=On these topics
he would not permit himself to dwell ; but he would briefly
and boldly assert, notwithstanding the opinions of the Noble
-Marquis and the Noble Earl, that the present distress was
never equalled in the memory of the oldest man.—(Hear,
hear. )—He wished that those who founded their belief
of the general prosperity upon the receipt of their rents,
would inquire if these were not paid out of the tenant's
capital, and he would even say out of their own, be-
cause, if land were improperly cultivated, he maintained
that a draught was made upon the capital of the landlord.
And he could take upon him to declare, that in the county
in which he had the honour to reside, four-fifths of the
ploughed land was now sown with wheat.—(Hear, hear.)
—There was mentioned in the petition one other result of
the pressure of distress, to which he wished to advert—
namely, the diminution in the numbers of that body of
men who formed the connecting link between the owner
of the land and the labourer upon it, and who had been
the chief characteristic and glory of the country in former
days, anti its noblest bulwark and greatest safeguard and
security in times of difficulty and danger, under the dread
of foreign invasion, &c. and in the maintenance of that
mighty struggle which we had carried on in defence of tLe
liberties of Europe. And he would declare, that if there
were one particle of truth in this statement, their Lord-
ships would be bound, if they had any feeling of private
interest—he would not say of public virtue, or regard to
the public good, for he had seen but too little of these in
the course of his political career, having found that poli-
tical characters were too frequently actuated by private in-
terest, instead of anxiety for the commonweal ; and, in-
deed, from his own experience, he could speak upon this
painful topic ; for the bonds of political and personal
friendship which united him to the friends with whom lie
used to act bad been most cruelly severed, so that he had
now few political friends, and none whom he would con-
sider himself called upon, from ties of party, to support, in
any motion or proposition in which he (lid not conscien-
tiously concur—and, consequently, he would not talk of
public feeling; but if their Lordships had any feeling of
private interest, they would be bound to assent to
the inquiry, anti endeavour to provide means for reliev-
ing the yeomanry of England from the pressure of in-
tolerable distress. He wished that the Noble Duke would,
in his visits to Kent, diverge from the direct road
to his mansion, and, passing by Romney Marsh, inquire
from the inhabitants if his statements were exaggerated.
He wished he would inquire from them if their wealth and
capital were not diminished—if the men themselves had
nut sunk in the scale of society—and if the produce of the
land were not insufficient, even independent of the rent, to
meet the burthens of the land? He knew, himself, that
farms in Kent had been let for a period of three years upon
the sole condition that they were to be kept in cultivation.
If, however, the Noble Duke were to terminate his journey
at the seat of the Noble Marquis, or the Noble Earl, he
would not find the same heart-rending distress, because
the labourers in their immediate neighbourhood, were, of
course, kept in employment; but if he were to ask their
tenantry why they retained their farms, he would find that
it was because they had embarked all their capital, and
could not there'ore abandon them, but were compelled to
trust to the generosity of their landlords. As to the dimi-
nution of the poor rates in the neighbourhood of a Noble
Earl, it was accounted for by the employment which his
demesne afforded to the poor around him; but it was clear
that the distress in the district was nevertheless great. He
had himself heard, from a Magistrate of Chatham, that
the authorities there were employed from morning till
night in endeavouring to procure employment and relief
for the poor. He agreed with the petitioners that the
contraction of the currency was injudicious. And as to
free trade, he would have no objection to it if the people
were first eased from those burdens which now compelled
them to exclaim that there was no money, no credit, no
security in the country. There was another matter
touched on in the petition on which he would reserve his
opinion, simply stating, however, that, although no ad-
vocate for radical reform, he did not consider the people
of England had their just weight in the other House.
The Marquis CAMDEN declared that the distress was
not severe in his neighbourhood ; he, however, acknow-
ledged that it existed in other parts of the county to a
great degree.
The Earl of DARNLEY acknowledged the respect-
ability and the numerical weight of the meeting from
which the petition had emanated, but declared he had not
been present, in consequence of his conviction that no pro-
position of his, or any of his Noble Friends, had any
chance of being successful—to which conclusion he was
led by the remembrance of what had taken place at former
county meetings, at one of which, in 1822, Mr. Cobbctt
had proposed an equitable adjustment as a relief for the
existing distress; and he (Lord D.) knowing that it never
could he rendered equitable, and being an honest man, had
opposed it, and was left alone in his opposition; and at
another, at which the Noble Earl had voted a Loyal Ad-
dress to the King, but was with the Noble Earl, his second
and bottleholder, whom he did not see in his place,
knocked down by a respectable auctioneer from Rochester,
10 submitted and carried triumphantly a very different
address, tad out which be believed the NON Earl would

not like to have presented to his Majesty.--(Hear, and
laughter.)—Besides, he asked the Noble Earl if there was
not a second petition proposed which was more in favour
of the meeting? He was as anxious as the Noble Earl to
relieve the distress of the country; but he could not agree
to vote with them until they had distinctly stated their
remedy. The nostrum suggested in the petition was a
tampering with the Currency and the Corn Laws, to
which he trusted the Noble Duke would not agree. The
Government had already done all that could be done to re-
lieve the people by a reduction of taxation, and they had
promii;ed more. And considering that the distress arose
from circumstances over which Ministers had no controul,
he thought it would more become Noble Lords who had
the interest of the country at heart, to recommend the
people to look forward to better times than to encourage
them to give way to despair.
Earl STANHOPE was opposed to what was called an
equitable adjustment. He wished for an issue of paper
money, on the principle that bankers should be the distri
butors, not the creators of money. No good could, in his
opinion, result from a reduction of taxation, unless they
could bring it and the expenditure down to the standard of
1791, which was altogether impossible. They should,
therefore, resort to the only other expedient which was
left them. As to the Noble Earl's question about the plan,
he had only to say that the petition he presented was, ac.
cording to the decision of the Sheriff, after a show of
hands, decided to be that approved of by the majority.
Lord SUFFIELD observed that Ministers were arriving
to relieve the distress which was not attributable to them.
He said this, while agreeing with the Noble Lord that the
yeomanry had suffered considerably.
The petition was then laid upon the table.
Earl STANHOPE then moved for the following re-
turns :—The declared value of French silk imported since
1526 to the present time ; the declared value of English
manufactures exported during the same period ; of the lea-
ther imported since 1823 ; of gloves imported since 1823 ;
of gloves exported since 1823 ; of expences of the Preven-
tive Service, from its first establishment to the present
time.

Their Lordships then adjourned till tu-morrow, at Ten
Minutes before Eight.

HOUSE OF COMMONS-(LAST NIGHT.)

Colonel SIBTHORPE, in consequence of a letter which
had been addressed to him, wished to call the attention of
the House to a misrepresentation—unintentional he had no
doubt—of what fell from him on a former evening. He
had been reported to have said that Mr. Jacob, Mr. Bull,
and Mr. Shipley, were very roughly handled in Lincoln,
and would be afraid to show their faces in any market in
that county. What he had said was this—that he much
regretted that the Noble Duke at the head of his Majesty's
Government did not take his information from men of more
practical information than those gentlemen. He was aware
of the difficulties which attended the business of reporting
in that House ; and nothing could be further from his
wishes than to impute intentional misrepresentation ; his
only motive was to correct what had unfortunately gone
abroad. He postponed his motion respecting increased ac-
commodation for reporters to Thursday, May 13.
Mr. MARSHALL presented petitions from Gomersal,
and two other clothing districts, in Yorkshire, against the
East India Monopoly.—Referred to the Committee on the
Charter.

Mr. AGAR ELLIS moved for Copies of the Corre-
spondence between Mr. Secretary Peel and the Officers of
the Society for Superseding the Use of Climbing Boys.—
Agreed to.

Mr. lIART DAVIS presented a petition from the
Licensed Victu die's of Bristol, against a free trade in beer.
—To lie upon the table.

Mr. STUART WORTLEY presented a petition from
the clothing district of Wortley, against the restraints upon
the trade with China.—To lie upon the table.
Sir JOHN WROTTESLEY presented petitions from
Swillerton and Stoke-upon-Trent, complaining of distress.
—To be printed.

Sir 'l'. WINNINGTON presented a similar petition
from the county of the city of Worcester.
Sir T. KINNERSLEY supported the petition, urging
the advantages of a reduced taxation, and noticing the
effect which the currency had produced upon the present
circumstances of the country.
Colonel DAVIES contended that the weight of taxation
was the real cause of the public distress.
Sir FRANCIS BURDETT said, that if the petition
were read and fairly answered, it would be seen that the
representations contained in it were not without foundation.
Ile hoped the petition would not be allowed to lie upon the
table without being read and considered. It was a gross
mistake to suppose that the intelligence and information of
the country were confined within the four walls of that
House, and it was perfect insanity to imagine that any re-
duction of taxation which the Government was capable of
effecting could alone produce those results from which per-
manent or extensive relief might be obtained. They could
not shut their eyes to the real cause. Every practical per-
son, engaged in the trade or in the commerce of the coun-
try, was of opinion that no relaxation of taxes could give
the required relief. In saying so much, he hoped it
would not be supposed that he was otherwise than
a friend to every practical repeal of taxes ; but what
he contended for was that the repeal of taxes alone was
insufficient for tile purposes of relief. The parties
appeared to him not to be agreed on what ground
the question really rested ; but in having quoted ithe
theory of Hume the other night, he did not mean it to
be understood that he adopted it. He did it because he
thought, as the Hon. Gentleman had said, that he had
no principle to go upon, he might be able to collect from
that Essay something to conduct him through his
dilemma. The great object of the country ought to be,
to have a currency that would neither increase nor dimi-
nish. Those who lived by prices were the persons to
which they had to look ; and would any one pretend to
tell him that when those prices were depreciated more
than a third, it could make no difference to the class of
individuals he had just specified ? No doubt it was very
satisfactory to have upwards of three millions of taxes
taken off, but the difference of interest, owing to the
alteration in the currency, more than amounted to that,
so that it would only be holding out a delusion to say,
that a remission of taxation would be sufficient.
After a few words from Mr. WA RBURTON, Sir C. Bun-
Mr. BarrinT, and Sir M. W. RIDLEY,:

Mr. E. DAVENPORT said he had received letters
from Chester, Staffordshire, and Westmoreland, from which
it appeared that the price of cattle had depreciated in the
proportion of 20 to 28 ; grazing lands had also depre-
dated in the proportion of 16 to 20 ; and the consump-
tion of butchers' meat had been reduced one-third.

Lord J. RUSSELL said, that if the question of the cnr-
rency had not been fairly met, it was because the Hon.
Member for Shaftesbury's motion was too general. Let
the question be brought fairly before the House, and he
had no doubt that it would be fairly met.
Mr. DAVENPORT would endeavour to accept the
challenge of the Noble Lord.

After a few words from Mr. WARD, Mr. WARBURTON,
and Cu!. DAVIES, the petition was ordered to be printed.
Mr. W. MARSHALL presented a petition from some
place in Yorkshire against the Renewal of the East India
Company's Charter,
Sir W. W. WYNN presented a petition from the
county of Denbigh, complaining of distress.

GUN MAKING.
Mr. LAWLEY presented a petition from the Gun-
makers of Birmingham against the abolition of the Proof
House for small arms, at Birmingham.
Mr. Alderman THOMPSON took the opportunity of
stating that the gun-makers of London who, during the
war, were making upwards of 3,200,000 stand of arms
per year, were now in great distress.
Mr. LITTLETON concurred in the prayer of the peti
tion. He thought it better that the Government should
supply itself with every thing it wanted by public con-
tract than by manufacturing. During the war one mus-
ket was made per minute for a considerable period, in the
establishments at Birmingham and Sheffield. He should
support the Member for Warwick when he made a motion
on the subject.

Mr. WILLIAM SMITH also objected to the Govern-
ment manufacturing anything whatever for itself.
The petition was brought up and read.
Mr. HUME also objected to the Government becoming
the manufacturer of arms. Its wants might always be
supplied without keeping up any expensive establishments
for the purpose of manufacturing arms.
Mr. PERCEVAL hoped that Hon. Members would
postpone the discussion till a proper period.
The petition was then ordered to be printed.
Mr. Alderman THOMPSON presented a petition from
the gun makers of London, complaining of distress, and
praying for relief.
Mr. Alderman WOOD supported the petition.
Mr. DUGDALE stated that the Ordnance had now
one million stand of arms there, and could not be ex-
pected to give encouragement to the private manufacturer.
Mr. WARBURTON presented a petition from Brid-
port, Devon, in favour of a reform of the Criminal Law.
Mr. WESTERN presented a petition from certain
millers of Essex, praying that they might be allowed to
take Foreign Wheat out of bond at a duty of 4s. a quar-
ter, giving a bond that the flour made from it should not
be used for home consumption. The petitioners wished
that they might have the advantage of the manufacture of

the flour. He thought it would be beneficial to the art
culturists that they should, as the bran would he retained
for home consumption, and he hail no objection to the
prayer of the petition.
Mr. BRAMSTON supported the petition.
Mr. HERRIES wished to recal to the recollection of
the House, that the subject of the petition had already
undergone considerable discussion, when the grinding
clause of the Corn Bill went through the Committee. If
any measure could be devised. consistently with the secu-
rity of the Landed Interest, that the Corn Laws should
not be'evaded, the Goverwnent would be disposed to pro-
. mote the object of the petitioners.
After a few words front Mr. HUME, recommending
the prayer of the petition, it was brought up, read, and
laid on the table.

Mr. W. SMITH presented a petition from an indivi•
dual of Norwich, in favour of the Jews.

Lord J. RUSSELL presented a petition from the Let-
ter-Press Printers of Sheffield, praying for a Reduc-
tion of the Stamp Duty on Newspapers and Advertise-
ments. The petitioners were persuaded that the duty, if
reduced, would yield more to the Revenue.
Col. SIBTHORPE supported the petition.
Sir W. RIDLEY presented a petition from Newcastle,
praying for the Abolition of the Monopoly of the East
India Company.
The petition was ordered to be referred to the Com-
mittee sitting to inquire on the East India Company's
Charter.

Sir M. J. STEWART begged to present a very im-
portant petition, and one that must carry with it much
weight, and was entitled to great consideration, inasmuch
as it was a petition from the Merchants' House of Glasgow,
comprising many of the most opulent and extensive mer-
charts, manufacturers, and proprietors of that great city,
who, in t/e+iir capacity of citizens, householders, and deeply
interestedinembers of that large and enlightened commu-
nity, earnestly petitioned Parliament to arrest the future
progress of the Glasgow Royalty Extension Bill, and to
prevent its passing into a law.
Mr. Alderman WOOD presented a petition from the
Congregation of a Dissenting Chapel in 'Worship-street,
Finsbury-square, against the Punishment of Death.
Mr. LABOUCHERE, in postponing the motion of
which he had given notice, on the subject of the Canadas,
did so at the pressing request of his Hon. Friend the Mem-
ber for Dover (Mr. P. Thomson), whose propositions were
that evening to come under discussion ; but he hoped that
the Government would delay voting the Estimates for the
public expellees in Canada, until he could put the House
in possession of the necessary information on that, he was
convinced, most important question to Canada, as well as
to the mother country. He was sorry to say that there
seemed to be no open day before the 18th of May; but he
hoped the Chancellor of the Exchequer would, in the
meantime, abstain from bringing these Estimates b..fore
the House, and thereby putting him to the disagreeable
necessity of opposing the Speaker's leaving the Chair.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
House had been so much occupied with the discussions on
the very numerous motions brought forward this Session
by Hon. Members, on the question of going into Commit-
tees of Supply, that the Government had not yet got
through more than one-third of the Estimates of the year.
To comply with the wishes of the Hon. Member would,
therefore, very much retard public business, and put the Go-
vernment
to serious inconvenience, but he suggested the
probability of an arrangement being made with some
other Hon. Member who had a motion for a day before
the discussion of the Ordnance Estimates, so far as to allow
the motion of the Hon. Member (Labouchere) to take
precedence.

- After some conversation between Mr. HumE, Mr.
STANLEY, Mr. PEEL, and others, the motion was post-
poned till the Ist of April.
Mr. JEPHSON, in consequence of a communication
from the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary for the
Colonies, stating that the Government had taken the
question respecting the extension of Trial by Jury at New
South Wales and Van Dieman's Land into their considera-
tion, for the purposes contemplated by this motion, ex-
pressed the great satisfaction he felt in withdrawing his
motion—a satisfaction which the announcement of the in-
tentions of the Government would extend to all who were
desirous of extending the advantages of our laws to the
Colonies.