The Sun.
London, England, 1863-02-06 00:00:00

America of rival states and of cabinets—of frequent turbu-
lence, and probably of frequent war. (Hear.) With these
views I have myself, during the last session, exerted what-
ever little, influence I might possess in endeavouring to dis-
suade ray friends from embarrassing her Majesty's Govern-
ment i a the position of politic and dignified reserve which
they appeared to me to have taken upon this question.
(Cheers.) It appeared to me, looking at these transactions
across the Atlantic as events not of a mere casual character,
br.t such as might probably influence those countries as the
great French revolution had influenced and was still ;i2.
fluencing Europe—it did appear to me that theta as o„,
our part due to the existing authorities in America a large
measure of deference in the difficulties which they had to
encounter. (Hear, hear.) At the same time it was natural
to feel—and I do not wish re disguise it—that they should
entertain a great respect for those Southern States who, re-
presenting vast pepulations of Americans, were struggling
for the great object of existence—independence and power.
But it did appear to me that the course which her Majesty's
Ministers had apparently reso; ved on supporting was one
which, on the whole, was honourable to this country, and
would, on the whole, prove beneficial to all classes of the
community. (Hear, hear.) I was therefore, sir, surprised,
and individually somewhat mortified, when I found that in
the autumn her Majesty's Ministers had commissioned one
of their colleagues to repair to the chief seats of industry in
the country, and, as far as I could collect, entirely changed
the policy which they had hitherto supported and sustained.
(Cheers.) it was not an accident. That declaration was
formal. It was made avowedly with the consent and with
the sanction of the Government. (Hear, hear.) And what
did that declaration mean ? If it meant anything, it meant
that the Southern States ought to be recognised, because if it
be true that they have created armies and navies and apeo-
ple, then by every principle of policy and of public law we are
bound to recognise their political existence. (Cheers.) It ap-
peared to me that upon the face of that declaration there was
a very great inconsistency, and I think that the course of
conduct there recommended was one which nothing had
occurred in the interval to justify. (Hear.) It is most un-
fortunate 'upon a subject of such importance, and upon
which it appeared that the Government had taken at first
so correct and dignified a position, there should have been
exhibited by her Majesty's Ministers such contradictory
conduct and such conflicting opinions. (Hear, hear.) And
that in that state of thinTs they should have felt it their
duty to communicate this vacillation of purpose and this
inconsistency of judgment to the whole nation. (Hear.)
We were told originally by the Minister who ought to be
the best informed upon these topics—namely, the noble earl
the Minister for Foreign Affairs—what in the opinion of
her Majesty's Government were the motives of this civil
war—that there was a desire upon the part of the North to
establish dominion, and on the part of the South to achieve
independence. (Hear, hear.) It may have been, perhaps,
indiscreet on the part of her Majesty's Ministers to have
made that public declaration of their opinion; but what are
we to say of the subsequent definitions of this contest which
have also been supplied ? It is only a fortnight since a
member of the Cabinet said that the whole cause of this
war was the existence of slavery, and he denounced that as
a pestilent institution. (Hear.) What agreement is there
between the President of the Board of Trade, who spoke
but a fortnight ago, and that Minister who upon such sub-
jects is a high authority, when he gave the opinion of the
Cabinet at the commencement of the war. (Hear, hear.)
One day we find another member of the Cabinet recom-
mending as the only specific the recognition of Southern
independence, and he is immediately followed by a colleague
who said that none of the conditions upon which indepen-
dence should be recognised as yet existed in the Southern
States. (Hear, hear.) In fact this variety of opinion is so
prevalent amongst her Majesty's Ministers that I believe
one of them, not yet a member of the Cabinet, but whose
lips are steeped in the gravity of the Privy Council, in-
formed as recently that in the opinion of the Government
the Lord of Hosts was on the side of the Southern States.
(Laughter.) Sir, 1 think it is very much to be regretted that
her Majesty's Government did not adhere to that reserve
which distinguished them during the last session upon this
great question, and it is much to be deprecated, unless a
change took place in their policy, that there should not
have been mere silence during the recess as regards their
individual opinions. (Hear, hear,) Whatever may be the
disinclination of her Majesty's Government to interfere
with other Powers in the conflict in the American states,
there does not appear to be any abstract objection on the
part of the Government to interfere in the affairs of other
states, inasmuch as in the course of the autumn they have
felt it becoming them to interfere in many other perts of the
world. (Hear, hear.) Therefore the objection is not an
abstract one ; it must be founded entirely on the circum-
stances before them. We are promised in the Speech of
the Royal Commissioners papers with reference to Greece,
to Italy, and to Denmark. I must say that on all those
subjects papers are very necessary. (Laughter.) They
may through light upon transactions and communications
which certainly have startled and perplexed us in the re-
cess. But there is one country not mentioned in the Royal
Speech respecting which I should be glad if we could get
some information, and particularly with regard to the
popular question of the day—interference—and that is
China. I wish I had a more accurate and rather more pre-
cise idea of what our relations are with China, and what is
going on with the Chinese, than seems to be in the posses-
sion of parliament at present, and which knowledge we cer-
tainly cannot obtain from the Royal Speech. So far as I
can judge from the communications that arrive by every
mail, there is constant fighting in China (hear, hear), and
it appears to be supported in a great degree by oar fellow-
subjects. By one mail we learn that an English admiral
has been wounded ; another informs us that an English
colonel has been killed ; and there is a great deal of
slaughter which is occasioned by causes at present un-
known. But in the recess there was a communication
made to the public by a member of the Government on the
subject of China, which was of a startling character. There
was a meeting of a scientific society, which was attended
by some officers of distinction in her Majesty's service, and
these officers informed the Geographical Society that they
were going to China, having been engaged by the Em-
peror of China, and having the privilege to enlist their
fellow-subjects to fight in his behalf—in fact, another
Spanish legion. (Hear, hear.) That communication
created considerable surprise ; but there seemed to
be some doubt on the part of the eminent chairman
whether it was one that might be depended on, and seeing
a member of the Government present he ventured to appeal
to the right hon. gentleman to know whether there was any
authority for the statement. The right hon. gentleman said
it was perfectly true, he entirely agreed with the operation
and enterprise, and he wished those gallant Englishmen
who were enlisting in order to fight the Tartar dynasty of
China all success, and trusted that they would completely
accomplish their object. There is then a war in China. We
see, in fact, officers in her Majesty's service are enlisting
British subjects in order to interfere between the Emperor
of China and his rebellious subjects. I want to know whether
this is a policy which he house approves of, or whether they
do not think it requires some explanation. Let me remind
the house it is about 25 years since our Chinese policy com-
menced ; the noble lord, the present First Minister, may be
said to be its author. It began by attempting to put down
the Tartar dynasty. The noble lord, when he was informed
by the late much-respected S r James Graham, then a mem-
ber of this house, that the population of China was " very
considerable," nearly half the population of the globe, and
that it was not easy to put down a Government which had
the resources of a nation of that magnitude—the noble lord
said, "It is very true ; the population consists of perhaps
300,000,000 ; but one-half of the population consists of secret
societies, which are not aware of the real state of China. The
great body of the subjects of the Emperor are discontented
with the Government ; we are confident we shall have sup-
port in attacking the empire of China which you have no
knowledge of; we are well informed, and depend upon it we
shall be successful." Their police was successful certainly;
it is developing—and it has developed with great effect ever
since—those secret societies which are known by other names
familiar to this house. Twenty-five years have elapsed, and
the noble lord who was then making war against the Tartar
dynasty is now supporting it, and making war against those
rebellious subjects of the Emperor of China. We have
completely changed our position ; we are making war now
against an insurrection which is called the Taeping insur-
rection. Great controversies have occurred as to the nature
of the insurrection. Who are the Taepings ? What are the
Taepings? I maintain we have nothing to do with the
Taepings. Whether the Taepings are patriots, or whether
they are brigands, is nothing to the people of England. The
status of the Taepings is a question for the Chinese, not for
the English ; and if we attempt to deal with this question—
if we attempt, in this illegitimate and roundabout manner,
to support the Tartar dynasty against the Taepings, we shall
os
ultimatelyi againbe involved in a Chinese war, and that for
a d crept object and on a different side to that we have
hitherto taken. (Hear, hear.) I say it is a matter of great
importance, at a moment when we hear for the first time of
a reduction in the e
Pu-tic expenditure,hes e that we should not
All
get involved in a China war,Chinese wars have
roved to be causes of financial embarrassment to this coun-
try, and have led to that increase of taxation of which we
hive heard so much lately. (Hear, hear.) We are promised
reduction of expenditure, and, no doubt, it will not be in-
eonsiderable, or else it would not have been mentioned in
the Speech. lam extremely glad to hear it. I ventured
last year, knowing what would inevitably Occur, to call the
attention of the house to our expenditure. We were then
told that retrenchment was impossible, because it you re-
trench you must be subservient to France. I am happy we
can now retrench, and we are not subservient to France ;
retrenchment and redaction do not necessarily involve hu-
miliation to this country and subserviency to France. But
if you want to have any real retrenchment it is not to be
had by a careless and hasty cutting down of an expenditure
which probably may be unnecessarily large; it is to
be
hadt
by taking care that our policy is a policy which does not
lead to expenditure. (Hear.) Chinese policies and some
other policies lead to expenditure ; and you must take care
to check policies of the kind if you want real reduction, or
any reduction. If you have a policy which leads to expen-
diture, reduction will be mere moonshine. We hear
a great deal in these discussions of the late Duke of Wel-
lington. He was not a Prime Minister who would have
starved the army; and it is well known he had an equal
admiration and feeling for the other branch of her
Majesty's service. Therefore it is quite clear that the army
and navy, when the Duke of Wellington was Prime Minis-