The Sun.
London, England, 1808-07-01 00:00:00

SPAIN AND SWEDEN.

etaempta ihat nfiglit still he triede to assert the hide- '
peedeeee of the North of Eu'rope? Our hostility
-to Denniark could not be very keen : we should
even be disposed to make the (ohende hotioratle to •
her for what has past, and rather Contemplate what
eeconciliation and future friendship, might effeec.i,
than what Might gratify Present Inistility. He sho'uld
trouble their ,Lordslisps no farther, bat -only hope,
that in expressing these his sentiments on the present
deeasion, lie had not been guilty of any irregularity.
Lord IIAWISEURY gave full credit to the candid •
and circumspect manner jn which the Noble Duke !.
had delivered his opinions upon-points of such deli-
Lacy. The Noble Duke was perfectly regular in the
mode he took of delivering them, for when 'supplies
was to 'be granted to his Majesty, it was dOubtless
opeO to every Noble Lord to advise how those grants
ought to be applied. In adverting to the points to I
which the Noble Duke had More particularly di-
re&ed the attention of the Holkie, their LOrdshipS
must be sensible that his observations must be very
general, and that owing to the very peculiar and
delicate na ore of the subjea„ he could not at pre-
sent enter into ar.y detailed explanations. With
resped to Spain, the people of that countay have
manifested a spirit and determination to resist the
attempts of their invaders, which would have done
honour to the most glorious periods of their history-,
and which, perhaps were not to be expetted tinder
the pressure of such formidable 6itficulties. Such a
scene, every man in that House, every man in this
Country, must hail with the liveliest satisfaction, and
what every generous heart must wish should be
done in support of so glorious a cause, his Majesty's
Ministers would feel it their duty., as it was the
interest of the Country, to do. With regard to
what information • they had received, of the de-
signs, or the hopes of those brave resolute men,
whO, in defence of their. country's independence,.
were exposing themselves to every thing Which a
powerful and sanguinerity rant Could devise and in-
tiia, it could not be exper he should now Unfold.
Ma Majesty's Ministers were fully sensible of the
extreme importance of this event
,and he trusted
they would be found to have- aaed'accordingly.—
The situation of Sweden was certainly the next in
interest and importance, and towards the Monarch.
of that kingdom, whose gallant exertions so justly
claimed our warmest wishes and admiration, the
conduct of his Majesty's Ministers would also, he
trusted, appear to be without reproach. When the •
time carne freely to unfold the principles and the.
views which had guided that conduLt—whenever
that moment arrived, he should not shrink front that
inquiry ; but on.the contrary, be most for Ward and
eager to court it. He hoped, that under circum-
stances like the present, he should not beexpeaed to
enter into any details, but be allowed to expea that
their Lordships might be assured that his Majesty's
Government would negleet nothing which the na-
ture at the circumstances, both of this and of other
countries, might suggest and require.
Lord Hootostan still retained his objections to the
Bill, on which. however, he sin old not now again
dwell, but rather follow the example of his Noble
Friend near him, and shortly express his opinion of
the present aspect of affairs. What was the extent,
Of toe means of the Spanish Patriots, or what their
future views respeaing a change in their Govern-
ment, he did not pretend to be accurately informed..
Of the spirit that adtuated them he had no. doubt ;
and from the nature of the country, and the resources
which that spirit would supply, he willingly took the
most auspicious omens. It held out a nrospea of
things which authorised the best hopes ; 'and he
anxiously expected it would be improved and taken
advantage ot. Much would depend opon the spirit
and the views wi•h. which the Government of this
Country would now act towards Spain. His ad-
vice was, that their spirit should be most liberal,
their views most explicit, their objeas most distinet,
and most plainly understood. If they attempted at
all to assist the efforts of Spain to resist her invaders,
they should broadly explain, not only 'what they
tended to do, but also what they did not in-
tend to do. Above all they should convince
the Spaniards, ' that in assisting' them we- had
no private interests to promote, 'no. selfish, obe
jeers to attain, no favourite foriva of GovernmeOt
to prescribe, that we had ricicomMercial advahtages
to require, no exclusive panlialities to insist:on.—
That we disinterestedly assisted Spain to achieve what
the Spahish people were hazarding every thing to ac-
complish : that we were consequently willing to gua-
rantee the integrity of the Spanish Empire, and to
negotiate with any form of Government which 'the
Spanish people'Were disposed to adopt, or with any
family which they might chuse to call to the Throne,
if they decided on a Monarchical form; whether li-
mitted or unlimitted. Not a moment should be lost
in laying down agreements of that nature. The
time for acing was the present moment, and his
Majesty's Ministers would be seriously responsible,
if, for any petty -considerations, such as those he
had alluded to, the opportunity should be lost. He
should again repeat, that the ground of co-operation
and assistance between the two Countries should be
broad, liberal, and thoroughly understood on both
sides.
The Duke of NORFOLK could by no means assent
to a principle laid down by his Noble Friend, he
meant the guaranteeing the integrity of the Spanish
Empire. He considered the Spanish possessions in
South America as Wet from the present moment,
and severed for, ever from the Mother Country. It
was therefore, for tile Government of this Country,
a Commercial and Maritime Nation, to watch the
fall of the Spanish Colonies. He could not other-
wise look with security and •satisfae-tion to the Bri-
tish Interests in that quarter.
The question was then put on the third reading of
the Bill, and agreed to without a division.
HYDE PARK.

The Duke of NORFOLK did not rise to oppose
the Bill --Burthened as the country already. was
with a load of taxes, its situation was perhaps such as,
under the present circumstances, to call for and jus-
tify some addition to that burthen. His object • in
rising now was to avail himself of the privilege of a
Peer of Parliament, and to give that advice to his
Majesty's Ministers which the consideration of the
present posture of affairs suggested to his mind.
lie hoped it might not be deemed irregular or un-
parliamentary to offer that advice, acid put a few
questions to his Majesty's Government, at a moment
when Parliament was voting supplies for the current
service of the year. In stating his opinion to the
House, it was by no means his wish to draw any
answers from the Ministers which they should not
deem it perfectly safe to make ; indeed he looked
for no answers or observations at all respeaing the
subjeets he should touch upon, unless his Majesty's.
Ministers thought it consistent with their duty and
the present critical state of affairs to enter into some
explanation of them. The points to which he ob-
viously alluded, and on which the public attention
most anxiously hong, were the present situation -of
Spain and Sweden. The most wanton ambition, the
foulest peredy, the most cruel, oppression, had lately
displaed themselves in Spain, to a degree unpiirai-
leled, he believed, in any age or country. These
excesses had fired the Spaniards with becoming in-
dignation and resentment, and they were now en-
deavouring to resist the fate which was preparing
to overwhelm them. Such a spectacle must at all
times be interesting to Englishmen ; but it must be
peculiarly so at the present moment. There was no
IMO but must wish success to • a generous people
rruggling in the glorious cause of the maintenance
of•tbeir independence; no man, he_was sure, could
more cordially wish them success than he did, or
would more willingly concur in the proper means of
promoting and ensuring that success. But what
was the best mode by which Spain could be assisted ?
He diA Lot pretend to know the particular circurn-
cances in which Spain was placed, or the degrea of
hope that might be entertained of the success of
*those who were endeavonring to resist the sternest
_tyranny, instigated by the most desperate ambition
ever before attempted to be exercised by any,Poten-
tdte over the independence of Nations. Louis IV.
_it is true, aspired to universal Monarchy, but in a
milder .way, and With means less terrible. More
formidable-•.abilities and more accumulated forces
weremoryto be Contended against, and the issue was
of the highest., moment, not only to) Spain, hut to
this country, to Europe, and the world. What part
his Majesty'S-Ministers.were prepared to act at so
critical a juncture, tb could- not conjedure. They
had at present in this Country delegates from the
brave, people in Spain, who seemed determined to
the torrent by which they were to be swept
:into servitude. From these, and other sources
Of information, he hoped they might be enabled to
coiled the best information of the real state of that
Country, and of the probability of success with
which so bold and hazardous a struggle might be at-
tended. 'With such information bekre them, what
would be their conduCt ? This was the point winch
excited his anxiety. Would they hold out encourage-
rn
arms ent and assistance to the Spaniards who were now
against the invaders, before they saw any
forma Government established in the Country with
which they could communicate ? Would they make
a common cause with the Patriots of Spain before
they ascertained the principles up on which they were
i
acing, and the ends which they were endeavouring
to accomplish could not think it politic to etn-
n sucha ?ca l-ul see,
bark
without some previous know-
ledge of the designs
out some more definoitte. dtieleterSaplairli'aistihotriotfrtiohtes—growulirthd;
upon wfrich they were proceeding to aft. He hoped
Ministers would, in the present
case, take a lesson
from past experience, and recolle& the result of the
interference of this Country in La Vengte. He felt
it his duty to throw out these hints, without ex-
peeting any detailed explanation of what might
be the views and intentions of his Majesty's
Government. He now begged to trouble their
Lordships with a word or two about Sweden.-
-The situation of .that Kingdom and of its So-
vereign was also highly interesting; respening
the issue of the struggle which that gallant Prince
was making against the common oppressor, he con-
fessed he had. his fears. Still he should have our
best assistance, as if our hopes of final success were
most sanguine. Such an example was to be sup-
ported and upheld. But should that spirited Sove-
'reign be also doomed to yield, we should not be its-
attentive to the fate that was to befall his kingdom.
If it was to be portioned, should not this Country
rook to the interests of Denmark, to the future
, views of the Great Northern Power, god to the

. . :•••• , . .„
Th.?, Duke of Norm Lit olir..c.rved, that if IP,
Noble Lord should hereafter c•intri'vti to briti Y the
question before the Houie; he v.roLiid pledgeehirn-
self to prove that the public were more iiittmmted in
the property of the Crown than in tlie l Nperty of
any inilividoals.
The Order of t'4:- Day Wag then inoi,'-c4 'for tho
third reading Of the Stipendiary Curates' 131', v,hen
The Earl of nUbICINGHAMSHIRE renewed hi for-
mer opposition to the 13il!, which was again support-
ed by Lord Harrowby. . .
The LORD CktAticeLLoit doubted the expediency
of the Bill, and wished to hear something upon the
Subjed from the Right Revetend the Bcrlcil
Bishops. _ _ .

The Bishops of lidchester, Bristol, and C
opposed the Bill, as likely to produce more Mischief
than good.
The Bishop of London and Lord HaWkebury sad
a few words in favour of the Bill.
The ARCHBISHOP Of CANTERIaURY was favoUr-.
able to the objet of the Bill, but thought, in its
present state, it would rather produce niisehief than
good.
The third reading was negatived Without a divi-
sion, and the Bill rejected.
On the motion that the Appropriation Bill be m-..d
a third time, Lord Holland renekved the ohserva.:
tions relative to the Colie2,e of Mltynooth; and was
answered by Lord Ha cykeAlury. After a tew
servations from the Duke of Biiclf,,rd and Lord
Lat.derdale, the Bill was passed.
On the motion that the Distillery Bill be read a
third time,

Earl BATHURST proposed an AlteratiOn; that
stead of Great Britain the word England should be
introduced, in order to correct a clerical error in the

Pord Hot.LANn thought that some inquiry oulz-hi
to be instituted how such a inistaks had creel into
the Bill.

Earl BATHURST stated, that it was the prokinco of
the other House of Parliametit to make the inquiry;
It.; the Bill had come up from the tither House %.vittit
the niiitake as it at present stood.
Earl Bathut st's Antertdment was adopted.

The Court of Sessions Bill was read a third time,
after a few observations from Lord Lattdcrdal.:, Lord
Rosslyn, and the Lord Chancellor ; as was alSo th©
Scotch Judges' Annuity Bill. •
. The Assessed Taxes'Bill was read a third time.,
and passed.
The Loan CHANCELLOR mewed, that ah hurnble.
Address be presented to his Majesty, that he trla,/
be pleased to order that a more adequate reniunera;•
lion be given tci Mr. Stacey, AssiStant Counsel to.
the Chairman of the Committees' of the House of
Lords.-

After a few words froth the Duke of Norfolk and
Lord Walsinghani, the Addresi was agreed to.
Adjourned till to-morrow.

HOUSE OF COMMONS. •
TiftIASDAY, JLT;IE 30.
A Message from the Lords desired the attendance
of the House at their Lordships' Bar,- when the
Royal Assent• was given by Commission to several
public Adts, for which see the Pruceedingsof the
Loris.
It was ordered, on the motion of Mr.,Locr.:tAar,
that there be laid before the House.early in the next
Ses;ion, Copies of the .Returns made hy the Bishop;
relative to the Residence of the Clergy.

Mr. MAnnocKs imiorited his intetition of reqew-:
ing i❑ the ensuing Session, the Biil which had passed
this House on his motioii, but had been lost in the
other House. The subject of the Bill was the Sup=
ply of Coals from Liverpool to Wales. With a view
to his intended motion,
Mr. MADDOCKS moved for an Account of all
Coals carried Coastways, from the Port of LiVerpooi •
to any Port in Wales, distinguishing the port and
the quality of the Coal, whether Kennel, Pit Coal, -
or Slack.

DISCIPLINE OF THE ARMY.
Sir F. BURDETT, with a view Id lay a foundation
for a motion .which he intended to offer early in the
next Session of Parliament, for the purpose of Abo-
lishing Dlogging in the Army, moved, that there be
laid before the House Regimental Returns of all
Corporal Punishments sentenced and inflie.ied in all
Regular and Militia Regiments for the last ten years,
with the causes thereof, and the number of lashes
infliaed on each occasion.
The SECRETARY at WAR deprecated the motion,
as going improperly to interfere with the prerogative
of the Crown, and the discipline of the army, and as
tending to no good consequence. in these times, •
above all others, it was necessary to have an army
governed by ledistin6i, direct, and decisive laws, to
tight the battles of the country. He represented
strongly the danger of agitating ihe minds Of the sol-
diers, by discussions of this kind; at the present mo•
ment. He adverted to the mischiefs productki by
false notions of rights in the mind of the navy not
many years since:- He insisted no the contitutionll
rig!)t of the Crown, from time iftitnemonal, to the
entire controul of the army, and contended that there
was no ground now to limit that controul. He did
not deny the right of Parliament to interfere. But
he maintained that the regular controul over the Mo.
tiny A sufficient. Seeing no possible benefit
from the prodUaion of the papers, which conk! not
be produced without great difficulty, and being still
more adverse to the use proposed to be made of
them when produced, he would give his decided ne-
gative to the motion.
Sir FRANCIS BURDETT thought it would not be
'matter of any difficulty to make out the returns from
the regimental records, which he supposed were
kept of ali such matters. The great amount of our
army at present, and• the vast proportion of the po-
pulation of the British Empire which would be sub-

•
Lord GROAVENOE rose to call the attention of the 1 jeBed to military law by the Local Mlitia, rendered
House to certain rumours that had gone abroad, of it highly proper, at the present time in particular,
an intention to erect a number of buildings, so as to that corporal punishment, so degrading in the eyes
obstrua the view of the Park, which contributed so of all mankind, but so particularly obnoxious to the
much to the pleasure and the health of the inhabi- feelings of Britons, should be nolongercowinued. He
tants of the Metropolis, while it would materially cited the opinion of Mr. Justice 13:ackstone, to skew
injure the property of several individuals. He was that the Mutiny Acct was a hasty measure, requiring
at a loss what mode to adopt, in order to bring the much revision,and by no means sufficient to afford the
matter under their Lordships' consideration!; but as constitutional controul over ttie power oft lie Crown,
it regarded the welfare of the public, he must think with resped to the army, which it proposed to give,
there was some mode or other of submitting it to and which was attributed to it by inc It 6 t true
the consideration of Parliament. Secretary at War. The House ought lo hive ."
The LORD CHANCELLOR and Lord LAUDERDALE information he required, in order to •tl:,Dle
insisted that it was highly unparliamentary to inter, judge to what extent corporal punishicetil
fare in the private concerns of the Crown. y infltded, how far shay were attenaed •