The Sun.
London, England, 1837-03-10 00:00:00

SHIPWRECKS.

Mr. BUCKINGHAM, after expressing his gratification
at the success which attended the last Bill, said that he rose
to ask for leave to bring in a Bill for the better regulation
of the Mercantile Marine of Great Britain, founded on the
Report of the Select Committee on Shipwrecks. The
ground-work of this Bill was the Report of that
Committee, which was composed in a great measure of
, Officers of the Navy, of great standing and experience in the
service. He was induced to introduce this Bill, not from
considerations of the loss of property, but on the ground of
humanity, since the loss of lives was greater than even the
loss of property. The Report stated, as a result of an analysis
of the returns from Lloyd's, that the loss of property by ship-
wreck annually was 3,000,0001., whereas the loss of lives
was not less than one thousand annually.—(Hear, hear.)
In consequence of the facility with which men could in-
sure, they because indifferent to the fate that might
await the ship.—(Hear.) The shipowner did not lose
by the loss of the vessel, because he was insured to the
full extent of the value of the ship, and thus the ship-
owner became indifferent to the loss. The underwriter
did not lose, because he, by excessive premiums, made up
what he might have to pay. The ship-builder was not in-
jured ; on the contrary, he was benefited by shipwrecks ;
neither did the merchant or manufacturer suffer, but the
British public did suffer. Much more lamentable, how-
ever, was the loss of life.—( Hear, hear, hear.) What with
the competition of the shipowners to buy, and of builders
to sell, cheap, ships had greatly deteriorated in strength
during the last forty-five years. A main cause of this de-
terioration was the bad mode of classifying the vessels at
Lloyd's, rather by age than by actual stability. By a re-
turn which,he had before him it appeared that, within six-
teen months, not less than ninety-five vessels, with their
crews, which had sailed from our ports, had not been heard
of, that is, were totally lost. The calamity arose, in a
great measure, from the defective construction of the vest
eels, and from the want of experienced commanders, and he
could mention an instance where the command of a vessel
of 294 tons had been entrusted to a boy of 14 years of age,
who had never been at sea in his life before. The ships of
the East India Company presented a strong contrast to
those of merchant ships in general. There were instances
of a ship being from eighty to ninety years old, whilst a
merchant ship was considered old at twenty. Thu mas-
ters also, before being appointed, were bound to prove
their competency. Tests of competency and professional
skill were required in the Navy. In other countries, as
France, Holland, and Sweden, great care was taken to
prevent these evils in the mercantile marine.
Mr. ROBINSON—Not by legislative measures.
Mr. BUCKINGHAM—Yes. In France an Ordon-
nance had been published in 1681, which had been charac-
terised by Lords Mansfield and Tenterden as the most
excellent marine code of any country. He (Mr. Buck-
ingham) proposed that a Marine Board should be consti-
tuted of seven persons, viz., four practical nautical
officers, one appointed by the Admiralty, one by the
Trinity House, one by Lloyd's, and one by the Ship-
owners' Society ; with an astronomer and professor of
hydrography, appointed by the Astronomer Royal ; a ship-
builder, to be named by the chief builder of his Majesty's
dockyards ; and a legal gentleman or member of the Bar,
to be appointed by the Lqrd Chief Justice of England. In
conclusion, the Hon. Member moved for leave to bring in
his Bill " for the better regulation of the mercantile marine
of Great Britain."

Mr. HUMS seconded the motion ; and although not
friendly to any interference of the House in commercial
matters, he thought that the Hon. Member for Sheffield had
made out a case which stroagly called for interference.
Mr. P. THOMSON, on the part of the Government,
was prepared to say that no opposition would be given to
the introduction of this Bill. He should give the Bill every

attention in his power, and look to its pi-ovisions with great,
curiosity ; for if he properly estimated the speech of 211._'
Hon. Member, and the report of the Committee, the Bill
about to be introduced would probably comprehend a great
number of subjects. Whilst he admitted the principle of the
Bill, he feared that its details would comprehend a number
of subjects which he (Mr. P. Thomson) did not think sus-
ceptible of legislation. The Hon. Member had stated that
it was a matter of shame to this country that, whilst we had
such an extensive commerce, and so large a mercantile ma
rine, we were so far behind other countries in legislation on
this subject. Now he thought this rather an argument
against legislation than otherwise ; for it would appear from
that argument, that, without any legislation of this kind,
our mercantile marine had advanced to a degree far beyond
other countries, where legislative enactments existed with
respect to this subject. The Hon. Member bad destroyed
a great portion of the force of his argument when he
turned to the example of France, where a code of regula-
tions existed with respect to commercial marine. Now it.
appeared from the evidence that the only marine which
could at all be brought into competition with the commer-
cial marine of England was that of the United States,
where no regulations whatsoever of this description existed.
He would caution the Hon. Member against endeavouring
to embrace too many subjects in his Bill, and be must,
protest altogether against the doctrine which the Hon.
Member had put forth, with respect to insurances.. in
his opinion, insurances, whether effected on ships or
goods, were amongst the greatest improvements -of mo-
dern times in regard to management and promotion of com-
mercial interests. He did not wish to prejudge the ques-
tion, and, as far as the Board of Inquiry was concerned,
he was rather disposed to concede that the advantage might
be derived from it. He also thought that it would be de-
sirable to inquire into the cause of shipwrecks, in the same
way as they inquired into the cause of any other accident
which produced the loss of life. With respect to any in-
terference with the construction of ships he would most de-
cidedly object to it. Such a proceeding would be a com-
plete bar to that competition which was the best security
for improvement in the construction of ships, and he, in-.
dependently of that, would object to any meddling with the
right of industry and the inducements to enterprise. One
great cause of the defective construction of ships arose in
his mind from the principle of measurement which was at
present adopted. He had devoted great time and attention
to that subject, and had sometime since introduced a Bill
with a view to produce some better principle of measure-
ment. He believed that Bill, which had passed, bad been
productive of considerable improvement, as far as it went,
and it would be competent for them to extend its provisions
and make its success more complete as a remedy for that
particular evil. With respect to the question of stores, he
hoped the Hon. Member would not in the Bill he propod
se
to introduce attempt any interference with that part of the
subject, as he did not think it would be attended with any
good result. With respect to the motion altogether, vvh'n
the Bill was brought forward he would be disposed, to give
.
it. every attention in his power.
Mr. G. F. YOUNG understood the Hon. Member for
Sheffield to have stated that the Committee were Os'
nimous in the resolutions they had come to. As a mein'
ber of the Committee he denied that the Committee were
unanimous. He objected to the proceedings of the Hon.
Member on this subject because he.noticed that throughout
the inquiry he seemed more anxious to carry out precon-
ceived views than shape his conclusions from the evidence
before the Committee. With respect to marine insurances,
the Hon. Member stated that shipowners were indifferent
to take proper precautions for the safety of their vessels.
Now this could not be the case, for if it could be proved
that there was any culpable negligence the shipowner would
lose the insurance as well as all the property embarked.
He also objected to any interference with the construction
of ships. He, however, was disposed to offer no opposition
to the introduction of the Bill, as he was not opposed to its.
principle.
Mr. ROBINSON agreed that the Hon. Member was
unhappy in his allusion to France, for, as had been stated,
the commercial marine that came nearest to ours was that,
of the United States of America, where these regulations
did not exist. He was disposed to consent to inquiry i 0
cases of shipwreck ; but he was bound to say with respect
to the competency of the commanders of merchant vessels
that in nothing had the commercial marine so remark-
ably improved as in that regard. He did not intend to.
offer any opposition to the Bill, but merely felt it his. duty
to throw out those objections to some part of what the
Hon. Member had stated.
Mr. CHAPMAN concurred in what bad fallen from
the Right Hon. Member the President of the Board of
Trade, who had expressed the sense of all commercial oleo
with respect to this measure.
Sir E. CODRINGTON thought that the thanks of
the House were due to the Hon. Member for Sheffield for
having introduced this Bill. He had been a member of the
Committee, and he certainly believed that sufficient anen.
tion was not paid to the improvement of the commercial
marine of the country.
Col. THOMPSON did not understand either that the
Honourable Member proposed any interference with the
construction of ships. He would be glad to see the Bill
before a Committee, that they might strip it of all nun&
cessary provisions, and endeavour to make it as useful as
possible.
Mr. WARBURTON thought the Hon. Member was
mistaken in the opinions he had expressed respecting ma"
rine insurances. He hoped that the Hon. Member would
endeavour to get rid of any details that were objectionable,
and embrace in it the broad points which would tend to
make it useful and beneficial.
Capt. PEC HELL was anxious to support the Bill, and
thought the Hon. Member entitled to thanks for the atter.
tion he had given the subject.
After a few words from Sir J. REID and Mr. PEASE,
Lord SANDON objected to some of the details that
had been alluded to in the speech of the Hon. Member;
but trusted that anything objectionable would be got rider'
Mr. BUCKINGHAM stated, in reference to the olr
jections made, that it was not his intention to touch tbs
question of marine insurances. The Bill contained onlf
twenty clauses, and he would be glad to adopt any sugger
tions that might be offered for its improvement.
Leave was then given for the introduction of the Bill.

AFFAIRS OF TEXAS.
Mr. B. HOY, in rising to move for the production er
the correspondence which he had given notice of his inter
tion to move for, stated that the subject was one of verif
great importance, and intimately concerned the trade °
this country with the Gulf of Mexico. The objects to he
referred to would embrace two subjects—the system °`
importing slaves into Texas, and the conduct of the
American Government. It might be in the remembrance
of the House that in Mexico slavery was abolished!
(Hear.) When Mr. Canning proclaimed the indepeir
dence of the Spanish American States he entered into
a treaty with Mexico, of which one of the provisions cr
pressly declared that slavery should lee at an end. UnderL
that treaty Mexico was to be co-operated with by th'
country in putting down the slave trade. But he thougl
that it could be shown that, notwithstanding the treaty °
which he had already spoken, slaves were introduced into
Texas from the coast of Africa. The conduct of Ameril
to Mexico had been influenced by the difference between that
country and Texas as far as slaves were concerned. But ths
policy of the United States was not a new one. It had beeo,
long acted on, and the Americans now pursued the same
of policy with Mexico as they had formerly employed ig
obtaining possession of Louisiana. The United Stntea.
claimed Louisiana as belonging to them, but they suffereiLr
their claims to lie dormant until it was rumoured that a s''
was about to take place between Spain and this countrY;
Spain at the time was in the possession of Louisiana, 1).7.'3"%1-
the course of hostilities it was ceded to the French.
the new possessors the United States commenced the 9
IP
line of action, and declared that Louisiana belonged to then:
and that they would hold any person who disputed the clele:
to be their enemy. The war with Great Britain took Pla,nea,
and Louisiana became eventually attached to the Vflowre..
In the present struggle between Mexico and Texas the 1
sident of the United States was certainly placed in a ritual,
of delicacy. He could not restrain his subjects from netinef
and at the same time he could not forget the question
boundaries was still open—conveniently left *pen pollee;
Mexico was in difficulty, and could not, if inclined. ,Piits
large sums claimed by America as an indemnity njea
claims. The Mexican Minister was at Washington ',roe
the President deemed it advisable to send troops °' ro•
United States into territory claimed by Texas as its IP to
He immediately withdrew from Washington, assignil be
his reason " that the honour of the country ioul tb°
wounded by American soldiers entering, though with nee
most amicable avowed purposes, upon ground from „h The
the followers of his Government had been expelled.' bee
conduct of the United States in acting thus was Ot the
coming, for there was no doubt that the entrance °f
ore,
American army would have the effect of, in a wg„%jeo
overawing Mexico. If this country did not assist n't: her
in the present crisis, he saw no means of preventindes
fall. He was neither a possessor of Mexican Bon u'oio°
was he a paid Mexican agent. He thought that the
of Texas with the southern States would greatly inelteerics:
Canadians in the north to unite themselves to Am 00a
This country ought either at once to abandon Alesiotbat
the treaties it had entered into, or manfully declare or,
we would not allow the Americans to proceed as theYof all
doing. The lion. Member then moved for coPie? 0 OW)
correspondence between the Government of rte 1.0111
his Majesty's Government on the subject of Tex,3s' of A
the Ist of March, 1836, to the present date. Also sited
correspondence between the Government of the 00 the
States of America and his Majesty's Govornme°l
same subject, for a like period.
On the motion being put from the Chair, subjeof
Lord PALMERSTON admitted that the e 00e
brought by the Hon. Member before the House wa

COI

smsiderable importance, but he did not think that. such
Parliamentary grounds had been adduced for the produc-
tion of the papers just moved for as would render it con-
sistent with his duty to accede to the Hon. Gentleman's
demand. The Hon. Gentleman had not fairly depicted
the present state of affairs in America.—(Hear, hear.)
Texas had revolted from the authority of Mexico. Hos-
tilities had been commenced, and the Mexicans had been
defeated. Their President had been taken prisoner, and
his army nearly annihilated. The Mexicans had not aban-
doned the hope of reducingthe Texians to their authority, and
a fresh army was prepared, ready to take the field in spring.
Such was the state of affairs, and would the Hon. Gentleman
recommend that England should interfere ? He could
hardly recommend it, for if he did he would virtually
advise that an army should be sent to Mexico. In the un-
settled state of Texas, the Hon. Gentleman inferred that
the United States of America were most anxious to at-
tach it to the Union, and make it a part of the Southern
States. But he should judge of America or any other
Country by her acts, not by any possible suppositions. The
President had done all he could to keep the laws on the
subject in force, and to preserve amity between America
ead Mexico. In the special Message from the President
sent to Congress, subsequently to the general one delivered
When Congress was opened, it was impossible for any one
to speak more explicitly, or to show better faith and a
greater regard to principle. The President in the Message
expressly declared that before any step was taken to re-
cognize Texas, it ought first to be independent and even
acknowledged by some other Power. There were no
grounds, looking to the conduct of the President of
the United States, for this country to interfere in the
affairs of Mexico. He would admit that the question
of the slave trade referred to by the Honourable Gen-
tleman was one deeply interesting to this country. If
Texas became attached to the United States, it was possible
that the number of slaves might be augmented, not only as
rebated to their being bred in the country, but to their
being imported. The Hon. Gentleman had spoken of
slaves being brought from Cuba into Texas, and lie (Lord
Palmerston) admitted that such a mode of importation was
probable ; but he knew also that the demand for slaves in
that island was so great that any number could not be
spared, unless the supply from the coast of Africa was ex-
ceedingly great. He could assure the Hon. Gentleman
that the treaty with Spain relative to the slave trade was
so carefully observed that the slave trade might be said to
have received from it a death-blow. Many ships had been
equipped for the trade, but slaves had not been put on
board. Spanish vessels had certainly assumed the Portu-
guese flag, and thus introduced slaves into Cuba ; but it
was to be hoped that, if the Portuguese Government
seconded them properly, the system would soon cease. The
Portuguese treaty had not yet been signed, though he had
hoped that it would be completed months ago. Yet if the
Portuguese zealously performed their duty, the treaty would
be Virtually in force.
Mr. WARD would not speak on the subject under dis-
cussion, were it not that he was anxious to make a repara-
tion to Mr. Forsyth, the Minister for Foreign Affairs in
the United States, for an imputation cast on him last year
when the subject was before the House. He (Mr. Ward)
had asserted that some members of the American Govern-
ment were engaged in private speculations of land in Texas.
Ye had not mentioned Mr. Forsyth's name, but it had
been expressly stated in the subsequent part of the debate.
lie (Mr. Ward) felt exceedingly concerned that he had
unintentionally given pain to that gentleman, as, from a
communication which had taken place between Mr. Forsyth
and himself, he felt perfectly convinced that the charge was
unfounded. He had been misled by a gentleman who came
from America, and who had good means of information,
but who was deceived on this particular point. With re-
SPect to the question before the House, the Noble Lord
had given it as his opinion that the Americans ought to be
judged by their overt acts. Certainly nothing could be
more decent, cautious, and proper than the language of the
President. But lie (Mr. Ward) thought that their overt
acts were not the only test of their intentions. For ten
rears they bad evinced a desire to obtain possession of
Texas, and had exerted themselves to the utmost to com-
pass their end. As to the slave trade, he thought the in-
Aux through Cuba could not be great ; but vast numbers
cf slaves were bred in the western States, and from thence
they could be imported into Texas. In fact, the cause of
revolt was to be traced to the existence of slavery in that
Country. As the opinion of the British Parliament might
Lave some weight, he trusted the papers would be produced.
Mr. O'CONNELL thought that the cause of humanity
was indebted to the Hon. Gentleman who had brought
forward the motion that evening. Some check might, by
public opinion, be given to the dreadful system pursued in
the American slave-holding states. The revolt from Mex-
ico was the consequence of the abolition of slavery being,
proclaimed in Texas. It was an eternal blot on the Ameri-
cans that they permitted slavery to exist. When lie heard
of the greatness of that country, he could not but feel that
their degradation ought rather to be named, from suffering
Their vile traffic in human beings to be carried on. Were
they not bred for sale, the same as sheep, and did not the
owner speculate on the time of his human stock being fit
for the market just as a farmer would calculate in this
country on the proper time for fattening cattle ? Good
God could any horror exceed this ? While the Texas
expedition was in preparation, the press of North America
Was calling loudly for volunteers, and Louisiana and all the
western States actually sent out regular purchasers in order
1° encourage the new market for the traffic in human
flesh. It was clear that Texas could not become an inde-
Itendent state without the aid of North America. He
tegretted the Noble Lord had not consented to
the production of the papers, because, if he had
done so, it would at least have had some appearance of a
disposition on the part of this Government to discounte-
ntnee this infamous traffic. He hoped the Hon. Gentleman
would persevere in his motion, and give a more crowded
jHouse an .opportunity of expressing its feeling on the sub-
ect, until the voice of humanity, re-echoed within those
would reach across the Atlantic, and teach the Ame-
'Lean people that in England, at least, this infamous system
cowld not be countenanced.—(Cheers.)
Colonel THOMPSON thought it was the duty of the
Noble Lord to have taken some step to restrain America
in the course she was pursuing. It had been said they
oviit not go to war ; but, in his opinion, all that was wanted
Was .three inches-of State paper.—(Hear.)
M. F. BUXTON was of opinion that there never was
treaty more grossly violated, and if measures were not
tsomptily-taken the slave trade would be established in
"•exas- upon a scale in comparison with which the slave trade
°f Cuba would be but a trifle.—( Hear.)
Mr. B. HOY expressed his determination to persevere
14 his motion.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the motion
Against it

ajory 1
AMENDMENTMOFit THE REFORM ACT.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE moved for leave to bring in a
TIIV to repeal that portion of the Reform Act which re-
quires the payment of rates and taxes in cities and bo-
roughs as the condition of registration. As it might be
To, ,e convenient to the House to postpone the discussion
anti 1 the second reading, he would content himself with
flier( gy moving for leave to bring in the Bill.—( Hear.)
Tile CHANCELLOR of tho EXCHEQUER said as
the mitt-ors to which the Bill of his Hon. Friend referred
had liven fully discussed and settled at the time the Re-
form passed, he could not consent to allow the Hon.
Member to bring in this Bill without some explanation.
He had, in fact, stated no argument with which he could
grapple.
Mr. L'tUNCOMBE would very shortly state the ob-
jects of his Bill. When the Registration of Voters Bill
'was under discussion, he (Mr. Duncombe) moved that it
.he an instruction to the committee to repeal this portion
«of the Reform Act, but the Hon. and Learned Attorney-
General said his motion did not come within the scope of
th at measure, and that the proper course for him to take
Vocild be to bring in a Bill on the subject. Now he (Mr.
Dun combe) thought it rather hard that, after having acted
Upon the advice of the Attorney-General, he should be
Thet ➢an objection on the -part of his Right Hon. Friend
to the. in troduction of the Bill.—(Hear, hear, hear.) The
lionmyrat,,le Member then proceeded to detail the nature of
the Bill. .The Noble Lord (John Russell), when he intro-
Iluced the Reform Bill, stated that 95,000 would be added
to the constitue.gcy, but, in point of fact, the increase did
tint exceed 48,000, so that the advantages promised by the
Noble Lord had not been realised. In the new metropoli-
tan boroughs which had been created under the Reform
4s
ere akgnarnely, Marylebone, Finsbury, and Lambeth, there
45 vt least 160,600 101. householders, out of which only
,000 were enfranchised. This was owing to a want of
Put ctuality in the payment of their taxes, occasioned, in
Ulan, y instances, by the gross partiality of Tory collectors,
who did not demand the taxes until the period prescribed
123' lu,t v for their payment had expired. His object, there-
lore o, 'as to put borough and city voters upon a footing
Witt; co Unity electors. The latter were not obliged to pay
their t tt.xes to entitle them to register, and he saw no just
groundgr for applying a contrary principle to the inhabitants
tow' ,satld cities.
11, The C 'II&NCELLOR of the EXC HEQUER thought
no ren3on had been shown for altering a prin-
e'pie whichi .had been recognised from the earliest periods
Inour his tore. If there was anything unjust in the mode
In Which takx( 's were ejected, it would undoubtedly be
Point grog tad for a la inquiry ; but as the collectors were ap-
-I;edi.b7 ants, i t 1 orit independent of the Crown, Govern-
°' (=curse coal d not be held responsible for their acts.
-,,,•:,ter
t circumstances, he did not think his Hon.
i'nend had
tawnaue out .a case to justify an alteration of the
settles,by •
' the Reform Act.—( Hear.)
v ' •
from ttlie‘ AX
LEY
rose, amidst loud cries Divide"
Min. 14t erial ibenches. This was a question which

ought not to be disposed of hastily.—(Renewed cries of,
" Divide.") The simple question was, did the Reform Act
intend that every man who occupied a House worth 101.
should be entitled to a vote? If such was the intentions
of that Act, he (Mr. Wakley) denied that it had been car-
ried into effect--(Hear)—and he must say that portion of
the Act which required the inhabitants of towns and cities
to pay their taxes before they were entitled to register
was a disgrace to the Legislature. There ought, in his
opinion, to be no distinction in this respect between coun-
ties and towns or cities.

Lord WO RSLEY thought that the House should allow
the Hon. Member to bring in this Bill, at the same time he
begged to be understood as not being pledged to support it
on the second reading.
Lord D. STUART also thought that leave should be
given to the Hon. Gentleman to bring in his Bill, although
he would not pledge himself to support its second reading
Mr. PEASE could not accede to the motion.
The House then divided—
Ayes

49
Noes 3B
Majority —ll
Mr. WARD postponed his Bill with regard to waste
lands in the colonies.

Mr. TOOKE obtained leave to bring in a Bill to amend
the several Acts for the regulation of Attorneys and Solici-
tors, as also for another Bill, which was but a sort of regu-
lation with regard to caption fees. These, by an old Act
of Edward the Third, were but 4d., while now 10s. 6d. was
charged.