The Sun.
London, England, 1808-05-14 00:00:00

Dttrrott' ill Lt.

Lord 'ELLtmaottovali 'moved :the second reading
of the Bill for the Relief of Debtors udder 201.
Lard IVlottt;t objeded to the priheipte of the Bill,
inasainch as it subjeded the priSoner to twelve
Miniths imprisOnment without the assignment of
ritly dWinft ground ; and because no discrimination
as made between a fraudulent and unfortunate
Mbtor.,
_

Lord ELLENBOROUGH wished to re&ify the opi-
nion of ltis,..Noble.Friend..:- The Bill tlia not impose
twelve months imprisonment ; for the Creditor
might relt:ase him in the interim. The only object
.4)1 the Bill was, that alter having.. been imprisoned
twel;..e months. the Debtor Might demand his.dito!
charge.
Enf,,Kitot was inclined to think that the Bill,
.under. all its circumstances, was rather favourable
to Ole •Debtor.
" '

The Loan CITANCRI.LOR delivered an opinion in
fAvonr of the Bill ; alter which the Bill was read a
st:entni time and committed tor TtiesdaYnext.—Ad-
jourlied.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
VJUDAY, SAY 13.
n consequence of the inaccuracy, of the Copy of
Lent.r front the Governor of the Bank of Irelatul

. _
to flit! Chancellor of the Exchequer, presented ;to
the'Hotise in Pnr-,unuce of a • former Order, .111(..,'
FO-SITH moved for the produaion-of the Original
Letter.—Ordered. ',•:
"Mr. FOSYLII immediately prevented the ,Letter,
and stated; that thii circumstance, would induce him
tb' withdraw In' the present. his Motion relative to
the Charter of the Bank of Ireland.::;.. •
A Mess Iv from the Lords' -annOuneed their
dslti Fs' assent to thei Reirersiou Bill.
Mr. Johnson, from the Office of the Chief; Se-
,
erelary tor Irettiplzi, presented several Accounts from
the Linen Board of Ireland.
. .
DEANE AND NLW FORESTS.

After a skin explanation of hig or, which he
stated was. principally to carry into c the Aft on
this subje%',f of Ci4ries, the Second and William the
Third, Mr. S.,Botntio: obtained ,leAte.ti)•brirtg in a
sill to increase and 'gest:rye the. Titnber on'Deane
and N6wForests.
Mr. 'C. DUNbAS presented'a Petition from certain
Clergyniett in 13erkiltire, praying that the Stio•lnclary
Curates' 101 might not..pass into a law.—Ordered to
lie on the table.
DISTILLATION FROM SUGAR,

General, GASCOIONF, presented a Petition from
the Inhabitants of the Town of Liverpool, humbly

Soliciting the. House to carry into effat, during the
present Seisicin, the Itepurt of the Committee ap-
pointed to consider the propriety of- a temporary'
prOnbition of distilling from
.grain. The Hon.
Gentleman-had nu intention of anticipating the de-;
bate upon this important sUbjeet. He could not
help observing, hOWever, that in the town which
he -had' the .Honour to represent,, and from which
this Petition proceeded, a' town cOntaining above
3,,00,000 inhabitant's, there was:but one opinion on
the necessity of 'speedily &int something to supply
the tlefwiency .in the importation' of grain into this.
Country, which the present state of Europe, and-of
the relations between -Great Britain. and America,
must inevitably occasion. . ' • ,
On the question that tile Petition be brought up,
Admiral HAavaY intimated, tnat it was Only in,
deference to. the LN iaiature, as no measure.on the
snbjett Wil4 yet before the House, that petitions of
a contrary tendency had
,not been ptigented.
Tire Petition was thin ordered to lie on the table.
On the motion of Mr. M. FITZGERALD, the Re-,
port of the Inspeetor General of 'Prisons in Ireland,
made in the year:l797, was ordered to be printed:
Sir CHARLES POLE postponed his notice of a mo-
tion for an Address to his Majesty, i.spe6ling the
distribution of the Droits_of the Admiralty, which
blond, for Monday, to 'Wednesday% .
Ott the motion cif Sir C: Price;.n Copy was or-
&red to be laid beford the "House of the Order
outfit,: the Board of Admiralty to ininease the
Pay of mt.. Royal Navy, in April 180 q.
CHILLYSTEALING. _ _ .

Sir C. PRICE brought up the Report of the Child
Stealing Prk.vention Bill ; which was agreet to.
Oo the motion that the Bill be read a third time
on WedocidaY, •
The SOLICITr.E.GENERAL observed, that the pe-
nalties of the Bill attached to those only who "ma-
liciously" concealed. children. 'As it wets likely that
in-few tattoo malice _would instigate to the commis-
sion of this crime, be conceived that the introduc-
tion of the ,term. " malielouidy" would generally.
prevent the convidlion of the offender.
Mr. Ald,,rmdn COMBE stated that ' he 'had con-
sulted very high legal,' authority in the framing of
the Bill.
Sir SAiIUET; ROMILLY thought the term " Ma-
liciously" the best that could be seicacd for the
parpoSe.
Atter a further cotiveriation, .in which the Soli,
citor-G neral, Sir S. Bomilly, and Mr. E. 'Morris
participated, the Speaker observed, that debate
cn this !Katie& would best take place on the third
reacting; Which was then fixed forVednesday. .
'Flie Interment Bill was read a third time, .and
passed,
O the motion of Mr. DeNDAS, there was or,
tiered to be laid before the House a variety ix
,pa.
rpers.. toodlog to skew the :normal reVeboe The
nst India :company, from the Pi-mint-4 ofp,ellgai,
Bcuares, anti-Onde, fur the last three lents; the
chiirgeS of the same: Provheeti fat the gine..
1?ori041?; the gharges of Vort St. George,: St. licicna,
rho Factory at Canton, &c.
. CROWN *f..AND4,

Otter short 4taleinent of Abe
objett ,t4otion, moved a Ite;ohlt:ori if the
Eid.!so, that. in alt L 4 of inez:47t.ire,
Lia ilitstiertii, wither 41.664 a

. ,
v
the Crown or of.the Duchy of Lancaster, Were'
concerned, a clawie should be introduced fof, the
purpose of enabling the ,-Sury ,or;stGeneral of the.
ef
Crown': I ands,
,or )he Chancel,of-of the Duchy of
• Lancaster, tq' appaii3 a .comtnissipier to bilpfirt/
tend the cacrying of the Bill info.efiet its far as. re-
late(l 'to hii_Majesty's rights.
Mr. VititTsar.ar) did not think a sufficient grourid
Alad..lieen laid fora Rosolution which,--initilopinion-;.j

went to impose unnecessary expence; and, hicon-
venience upon the parties to Bills of Inclosure.. • No
instance of injury having been•done to his Majesty's
rights had been stated by the lion.iGentlenua. He•
wished the motion could be deferred until the Coun-
try Gentlemen, who were the `persons treAt nearly •
interested, should receive information upon the sub-
let% , - • - •
Mr. HUSIOS3ON replied, that many instances had
occurred' in which the• interests :9f thoiCrown had
been -sacrificed from the Want of such a clauSe
Bills of Inclosure. He particularised one of these
instances, in' the Inclosure at Sherwood Forest. As
to inconveniencing the partieet to ,such Bills, the
fad was, that, at present where his .Majesty's inte-
rests were concerned, a of Inclosure could not
be introduced in the • House withodr the previous
:consent of the Crown the Resolution Which be
proposed tended therefore,to diminish this OstaCle.
Mr. TAYLOR cot-trended, that, 'it the interests .of
the Crown had in any case'heen sacrificed as the
pradice now COOds it must have been bWing:to4he
negligence of the Surveyor General the-Crown
Landrcluid."SurveyorGeneral'OlWex4o andyereSti,
whose peculiar duty it was to examine of
closure, that they might eot trench on his Majesty's
rights. He could not give his consent to the Reso-
liftion, because it would load the parties to Inclosure
Bills with a heavy expencel without at. all tionetit,
ing the interests of the Crown.
.Mr. GRAHAM spoke to a similar effe&.
Mr. S. BoußNis-supported the ResulUtion, and Sir
J. Neweiner orposed it.
••• The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER defended
the Itesolution. Übe interests of the Crown and the
interests of the pubiie were .06e. and the same; and
any measure that tended to pre tedt the one in this.
instance must rend to prote,tt the other. He Con.
ceived that the adoption of the Resolution, besides
• _
affording an additional security to the ititerests of the
Crow 0, would relieve. those who had those interests
more :immediately in their care from what was fre-
quently a very. principal duty. •
After a feW words front IV4, BRAND and Mr.
OUSKISSON, the flesUitHiUll was put •and agreed to,
DISi ILLATION FROM SUGAR. •

LOrd BINNING, unders,anding that several perlons
were still verrciestrous that the :potion, founded on
the Report of the cotinittee, of which he had had
the honour to be the Chairman, should be turthet
postponed from Monday next, tor the purposepl
allowing additional time to consider the evidence
contained in the Report, rose to pot off the motion
to Wednesday. He did this with the less reliktance,
as he found that this delay would by no.nteatis re-
tard. the adoption of any measure on this subjea
which the House might think fit to take.
Admiral HARVEY declared, very warmly, that
should any measure be proposed-to carry i.nrh etfea.
the Report of the Cornmittee, he sispuld oppose it
in every stage.
The committee on the Dublin Police Bill, which
3100 d au the Order Boult for Wednesday, was Oust-
potted to Friday.
Ott the motion of the CLICELLOR of the.FA-
cnEQuLtuit was ordered, that the House at its ris-
in, should adjourn to Monday; but that the various
anunittees should have leave to sit notwithstanding
that adjournment.
/111 REE PER CENTS.
_ _

On the motion of the • CHANCELLOR of the E.
CHEQUER' the House resolved itselC into n Coin-
txnttee, to 'consider of Olowing tlir fl'olders of Three
per cent. Stock, to trawler that Stock for the pur-
chase of Annuities.

The CitexceeLoa of the EXCHRIVER then rose,•
and as far as we could celled his mewling, addressed
the Cbairmart nearly,as follows ;
Sir, in consequence of the notice wbi'ch I, gave.
yesterday, I rise to propose to theCommitiee certain
Resolutions, for this purpose of enabling persenepo3-
sessing snick in the 3 percents. to transfer that stock
to the Commissioniers for the reduaiot, of the itw
tional debt, with the view of:obtaining in its stead
equivelent annuities. Though the subjea, Sir, is of
great importance, 1 .do not lunit that this moment
the Resolutions will lead Ito any discussion, because
am net disposed .to requeot that the House Will form
.any opinion upon them this night. All that I intend
is, '.after having brieflVexplained the nature.Of my
propositibti, to move „ihe reading ot, the
_f)rst reso-
lution profile/tit', mei thea'to propose, Sir, that yell
re port progress, free whole of the ResolutiOns will
he printed, and pu into the hands of Members as
speedily as possibe: ; and I shall,defer any Motion for
resurieng this.CLintnittee until next week, in order
that full time ma be given for the due consideration
of the subject, Before I proceed in .my statement,
_I think it extiremely .nocessaey to-guard' myself
against any milapprehemion that might otherwise
arise, with respect to the tendency of the Rca-,
sure which -I AM about to propose in regard to
Sinking Fund. I declare to the Committee, that I
riiire no idea, direaly or'indireally, of divesting the
operation of the •Sieking Kind from its natural and
proper objea--e,the redemption of the National.'
Debt. I trust, therefore, that no pre-conceived
opinion on this subjea will be allowed to prejudice
the minds of the Committee. 1 shall now, Sir, state
the nature ofmy propositiim, and the reasons which
indeee me to recommend it to the adoption of the .
Committee. I mean to prdpose that liberty be given
to any. persons .possessing stock in either of the great
Three per Cents. (the Consolidated or the Reduced)
to transfer that Stock into the hands of the Commis-
sieners fine the reclnaien of the National Debt;
,and
that on Filch transferhe be einlitied to receive an
annuity for life, amounting to such a Wm Mar 'via
above. the dividend on his stock as an accurate cal-
enlation of the value of the principal so transferred
will prie;eribe ; faking the stock at the Current, price
of the dv of transfer, and .varying the calenlation
according to the age of the indivicited, teieleetht
particulars, hovvever, I tOst'olierve, that I.weeid
propose to, Lek .the poteCr.`of trausfer to
undo., 3,6 'leers ;,,o f age, .211441 e .ametin t ut.Lite
ter`to snm?, not li as iphrr, kiper:oo
causr many in
g otter v., e 0.3de0-di
the.latter, boeense the cutuotutatieu of sinellersums

would cause considerable trouble and inconvenience.
,The circa, Sireerf this measure would, eel cooceive,
be, not only to tike out of the market all sue- stock
at would beComesubje'a to Such commutation,- but
'oe,to:secure to the,netione the eedemption of the
transfefreaehl the'prieeettlehich they were
*hest the transfer was made. The Committee must
be'perfeeely aware, that the operation of-the Sink-
'lnt&-Fonctehas recently 'very enuch iticreese-471116157-i7de
,Theree,is every reason to believe, that
by the continuance of that operation, -they-will
further be inerea-eel in piNe. one cell, doubt,
Sir, 11)11 if the aloes= were consistent w h pub*
faith, it would be extremely desirable to give to the
nation an opportunieseof redeeming the whole of the
NationAleWbt at the preseut price of ale Stecks;sbe-
cause that would preclude the elieA which any; (Li-
turn advence ut thisherice pt Stocks must haven]. tes
tardingethe operation of the' Sinking Vond.----There
are two objets whikth the Swking Fuirdhae in, view ;
-the one to prov4e for the final redemption of the
National I)bt,tZe other to keep np the :price Of
Stocks in the market, se es to enable Government;
whenever the exi4entiee'efthe. State require it, to
make an advantiteeeuelban for the public. These
objeas, .howevete's)r, are in some degree -41 con,
sistent, Its setnedegree they couatera&each other.
Whatever measure eilises- the funds, and thus en-
ables Goyernmentttehoreo.w on the, best terns, pre-
vents the ,Commissioners for the reduktion of the
National Debt from reducing that Debt on the
be e$ lermS. NOW, Sr, the measure whiche pree.
combine both theseerbjehi ; it will natu-
rally tetra'tb increese the price ot-SMCks, and it Will
at the same time secure theeedetfiption, at a low
PrCee of so ,much Stock as may be transferred ape:-
cadent to the rise produced. All this, Sir, 61,113 t. be
cenotis tethe Committee, withoeceny_deutiled ex-‘
Riaeation ; but I wish to represent, o them the inan-;
net in which the redemption of the debt ,will be
effected by- the purchase" of Annuities. "Every per-
son who transfers his Stock In the Coaamissteners,
will be entitled to Such an ennuityeAs ,will tie eiol-
valeta to the yelue,er the Stock, aed of hiS 'life:, the;
Calculation proCeeding on the principle that the.'
sum which he Would- otherwise have received-as
interest, the additional sum '4ranted -as annuity;
atialbe" compounttinteresrare tole w to Would re-
deern'the sum origtuallytratisferred within the PJriod
to 'which the individual'S life will be calceleted.as
likely to extend. For instance, if a person= we;s-e ilia
posed to transfer: m the: Commissioners a theuemeti
pounds of 3 per cents.; and elm) the estimate. of the
probable duration of his life, aed of the compound in
wrest, it should be calculated that he, was entitled for
that transkr to receive tw ice the amount ef
interest, he would' then haveee right to an ennui-,
ty Mr life of six, per cent., or sixty poureis on rh-ti.
whole stein ;
,the 'calculation proct4dieg en the prine.
ciple, that the accumulation of the additional thirty-
poends woilki, 'at the probable close of that eersoll's
fit;', he equiValent to the redemption. of. -Site Sterelt.
originally transferred ; , and that at the price at
which it was originally transferred. Now, if the
Stocks Continued to else, the redemptioteof that stun
could not be etneted without this measure:- The
whole- merit, therefore, Sir, of this, plan rests en
the accuracy bf the expeeeation, thecehe e'tecke are .
likely to rise. I ant ready to admit, t hat it the
contrary should take place, the meesure wit) have
tendency directly opposite- to tine which I eepeCti
The subje& which requires'our most mature cotisi,
deration is, whether, under
~the circumstances in
Which the Country is placed, there is not good ma-
sod to believe, or rather to. be certain, teat a-cun-
tinuance in the application' of the means which have
hitherto been used to decry ase the debt, :will pro-
duce a continuance of the .rise in the priceol,Stocks:
Tits CoMmittee will be sorprisedeo learn, that since
the negotiation for the last loan, there hasheen a
rise in the Funds of six per cent. on the Stock, or,
between nine and -ten per 'cent on the capital.
When the loan was concluded last year, the Funds
were at fie ; they are miw fie. It, therefore, the
measure whieh Y am now prOpOsing had been
adopted last year, -then, of whatever quantity of
Stock which might heve'been converted into aneui-
ties' since that period, 'the-redemption would have -
been secured at, sixty-two. l'eertainly do trot'eX,
peo, Sir, -that. such a rapid progress in the price of
Stoeks is to be:calculated upon-for the futhee; but 1'
aay,' that :there is every reason to•believe, whee
ther we look at rotate L.f war or of peace, that the
acieitneletien of the Sinking Fund must inevitably
:keep up the price. If the blessings of peace could,
be restored to the Country, the price of Stock's
would unquestionably. rise. Peace has uniformly
been lovindee produce that of e& ; it tends direCny
Red' most. particularly to tlxit objea ; for when
there is no necessity for a loan, the Sinking Fund is.
left to operate itself, without counterattion or
embarrassment. The etfeet of the peace which sac- •
ceeded 'the Treaty of Amiens, was to raise' the
Funds from 59 to 77' At that time the. capital of
the debt-wag four huedred mil-
lions; the Sinking Fit4d five millions eight hundred
thousand pounds, being an eighty-second part of
the debt : now the capital of the debt was five hun-
dred 'and -eighty-six the ••Sitiking Fund
abate ten millions, being a fifty-eighth part of the ii
,debt. - If- therefore pence were restored, there can
be no doubt that the operation of 'the Sinking Feed
must inevitably keep up the price of Stocks. But,
even in the case of a continuance of war, there is
every reason to believe,
,front eeperience, that the
operation of the Sinking Fund will be sufficiently
powerful, notwithstanding the counteraetionof other
circernstences, to keep up the price of the *Funds.
If, therefore, in either situation, of peace or war,
there is good ground to believe that Stocks will in-
crease in price, it is a strong argument in support of
a plan by which a considerable porliOn of the Public ;!
Debt may ,redeemed at the price at which the
Stocks 'maybe 'anteeedent :to that increase. There' ;
is another circumstance, Sir, which the Committee
must take into their consideration in estimating the
merits of the plan ; it is the probability or :improba7
bility of persons being disposed thus to transfer their.
WIC to any considerable extent, How 14r that
th§potsitiort. may exist, I cannot pretend to deter;
thine; bet this I know, that as far as it may exist,
it will be advantageous to the public! Jt ievery
probehle,* Sir,
:that many individuals' would -be ,
strongly inclined to dispose of their Stock.tar the
purchase of annuitiet; under circumitatices which"
secured to thein the acquiition of an increased in-4
60me; tile: front any risk to ,their property; and
without the expence and inconvenience attending
other modes of obtaining a siwilar objet, Under

•
this plan, those individuals woultlenjoy more .1(1',
vantages, they ‘votild receive much better term?
thari in 'any negotiation of a private nature, because
the objet of the plan is not to obtain for the ptlblie
any profit from the sale of annuities, but, as have
before stated, to secure the redemption of that part
of the Stack" transferred, at the price which it may
ksaktlis t 411.15ta1e;04319,40114114411.1*
hie would be given in the annuity,,. without
do&ian whatever. Jt-is-rny.hope•and corsfident-ex-
pettation;:that'in the preseat state of-thettriatitee,,ef
the Country, I shall be: ale to procure loans in the
three per, cents. Tealeernable at eighty;' its 'i%".iCtelt
case, in the event of the Funds rising abovd:eo.l4y, -
I mean to prciposethat i fie Stock so created sh ail ,uni,
he .transferable. I 'now move you; et-6.646;81G
that it is the opinion of .this Committee that it would
tend more speedily to the redue,tion natienal
debt, and to the material' accoMlnodation, of -e% cry
perton potsessing property lathe three per cents. to
allow that. person to :exchange' his propefty for as
annuity, either upon a. single life or upotk the lives
of two persons named by saint."
hl "ltVl4l)tiSt4 _telt ,ilispbSed ;t4:i queizitlZes; the
moralitypf, a measure, by whieli pettpl:e Ilvighlbe in-
duced blindly to sucrified the- (unite- for theinesent.
It might be said thet",if any gee chose-Ito do this at
present, lie might accomplish his objeta at an in-
surance-ofEce ; but was it 4ecorons. that Govtrit,4
wept should hold oat a, temptation to a prairticeisl
which smite of not the best propensities in hu,',.:16
nathie 'Were gratified"? This appeared to.bilo so b 4
a str hjection, even were ihe pr.ril:iiee no;
creased by that tetoptiltiosl ;, out the tio,estienova,
seirltether. the practice , vyketitd :net be very. much itt•
creased, in which case the character of the Ct'.).untri
would be. rendered. proliatiiitnably selfish -Atid
illi-
betal. • • ! •
Mr. Bit/040 suppbsed a Case in which fiVe•Millionit
were transferx.edt,vhen the Stocks wet est;simy '; he
then stiiipci;seti,' that byte natural progress ot the ,
price frotiqhe operat‘eifi of , the Sinking rind, the
Stocks woufd,reach st,:oy,five; hut. thins by the acre
lerate4,Pr9ress, iii cent,col-.;,...;,,e of temo.vio4s
Inueli-ftatim tee tharket, ti: would rise tiritatibrrty:
in that case.ltee,neemied, Ile advantage
be:deriyeA from the ineifs;ishc, hut. ILMILZia
• .• : •
Mr, .TIP.REIS,I' riientfy.7;44si‘ the
plan proposed to afford topersonsiiii the lo' Cr
of-life to-do dem, which-v;(4dd be lii?,llly.iejtitiere,-10
•At the sNine -dine tie did' nut beit,fve
that there were in tl,is' Coluttry, any consiiicrabie
body of people Who :iisposecl to ay.lillllo.ll',
selves of the plan, Persons of high ran co ~11 with
easMWt77.l.n,rultie7lll-1117.717Festit-Tiiiire`lll7sif
Litutet-hvc.qurity. Trtt. Pifi hid triad a sittnetr 101 le- •
eutir:ly r sled. Every ten tUtut
to: beiteve,,.that capitai-and itierel-e of capital were
the- obje.ms of the- diy, , and 'was it prob.,ble that s'
ptlrtrito.irri'lttiTrierrii;76lrr e.iisfrnt
should all 'al owe -fits phut, mai pt-:•fer tete!!
rest to capi;ai ;:and that the precis:ly at hie. metal t,
when the Chancellor of the .I:::..eiteqUer watiteeittr-t
ing him that capital wise iii talus ? It inyeiir-
ed fo-hi.nt atst)*(ahttetr4h-litt`otily's!'ated 'it- •‘Oithout
awaiting. to, tuter,:thar 6t.itth a 1111dCr.S004Cir'
entl/3tatlCCs; might nut 1.)4 adviseablej, that the Van.
weind of the ;‘..i of Patliabeinit, re-
spec-ling :the recludien_ef_tne-.Deet, and
itifraetioe of taitb with the-public creditor.
*DOA. (hit St (4,i were kept fbe
periodical presence iii the market of the Cuineii
itenerslor the redu(tion of .11;bt, who
to make certain purchasi:s ot.certain days, W;;:it.:
e,vey 'might :Lte the s Ott 0: mark Lit., • It, •Itowe.ver,,
these-annuities.were ed to a consilerable es
tent, that part of them Which exceeded Ole iatere4, •
must ditninisli the disposeable sptn'.,iti the hands
t ;e . Cumtnissiattexs. fox- LilC-414LICti411-0i Oebiv
The consequence woold, be, that the elfea
produced, and which he had just .descrihed, 4 otaP'
be materially lessened ; and the persOtt \vitt) hollgbt!
Stock last week. on the faith of, the A. :It rei'ttj#,,
meat, by Maid.) expeted thathis'property.wen!d:
soon be, very
„mud) i tiereased -iii value, would tittio'
find himselfdeeeived. Thu H•tn.Gentlertiaa
• hati.stated his expeCtations, that .heshould be Albit'
to make Loans in the three 'titer cent. Stock
deentable at. eighty Wiett advantage would hoch-",-*
rived from this Ite.,:was at a loss to.compreitend. 111
proportion to the sum- at which it was ti) be re-:7
deieotable by the contrat'lor, .contra4ol.l,
raise his original terms ? tie ,ha:pot:we:ln to Liao.-
gate front the merits of the kti bt Hon. GenOtpl3o,l).
but .he wonld assort;hun, Chet he never yet
any Chancellor el the Es.cheTter, whowy,,, a ma*
for the Gentlemen in the City; where their-interest
w as concerned. . '

Mr. ROSE contended that the plan. of his ni4l3'
Friend. would be beneflui:d to the itictivvh!.:4
who should transfer their Stuck for A.nnuitie,:, ina,-
Isstel) as it would securetip:it Annuities withont
of the dirlicuhies of recovery Attending , U: (1
Cliarf,ed upon hinds. The pub(ick'unds would thore,
•
fore bcpreferred, the pril.:; ice of 1.
under thi.i,plau would not he injurious to ti::: pub'
he, was apparent, from the circumstance ti)a:. tie:
Short •Annl4ties had lately adorded an, opportunity
of making such purchases. Iris: did 110E1)0.14"d "
any iostance hal occurred in ‘tiltich a parent had 'de-
prived:l4r, child of its inheritance hi order.toint>tt.
present income by ,inking capital th such purchases.'
The general aiivro:ll,,,.;(:s of the plan would greatly
outwe,gli every evil that could posiil4 troul'
its oPer4tinn. The Tont Plan oh 17a ti wire not '
point, because there prc:ent ineJtis wan tb be gtvair
up for tuture aLlvant:tlL.4
is the ease. T his ridli illaV within the `lris;
letter- of the Att, hut he W'ati persuaded .4.w:is With
ill „its §pitit. When the Itetolutitnet proposed bt'
his Right lion: Friend should be inspected, as tbet.
would .before the Itiouw would I eit upolli;f0;
any dt:ei%ion, lies convinced they f.vottict be
sidered us calcul'ited ultimately to accelerate the Id'
de:uptiva of the debt.

• Lord LI. Fvuk•ralti)weci, tha! thotigh, in a palee'
Capital might drawl] 110111. LllV.tytkth to bt„l t. Mifs,r
ed io .colutu‘trre, •yet the,Fond3 wouki xi.i, a", If
loans-would' then -tie *ir.11:11 d 9. okYiw et, lobt.
as tiwy 0461. a, to the gr.:Del-a; prilleipivl
iteir fr.,o,e,t
meet auy.sacid-u SO,Cit Oii4ig by
occi4r.tylappreat:tliti prlCt: of tl
Or i!ltt Cleat ,e 114411 (),:I
to person, 1; iv In.; Jo w'=r • r
Cl)afie than 'wert: to be cunt:—
traJe. 'rho ulfea woul4 .1114 t 4 WiJi4l44 La

i

b,
1~
d,

Ki7'

. 4

!,T

;
he ;iron by Geverreat,nt upon the transaAion, and ,
.
tire !'i id:vet.' ani slitldlts,eliesses woultf. thus. avail '
t;ier e ,e;kes le. tlt te prefii. held out by Government.—
I, 'r , . `...,.11 .1i 00 n
.tiOt _where alum:flea had been
cif,. ~..iged b a Governmeht• to any• extent, they •
Pi... : :ed. a dire et effect 'you the morals of -the '4
c•: :e. The Rents; viages -.vere in proof of that. '
.I,' ' e in,tance. Neekar. gran ;ed the annuities on the
ter :t the fair trade, but here an advantag. beyond -
the. , is to tie given. • -He• teought it also aoinewhat '
vole ~ hoary that this ail,antee, seould be held out
21 a nine when an Additional Lex was to be laid on
lite• insurance% The latter were cliciated by every,
priliciple ut prudence, providence, and" foresight, .
vdnist the percilasesender the Right Hon. Gentle- •
male.; pia., wound beahe very reverae: Bat ihe etled
ci thieeplan and. of the tax upon 'life -insurances -
eau id. be detratiental• to the interests of the country.
He wa not prepared to say wnether the plan would '
'titertei e f with tire spirit of the Ai% but undoubtedly
;he e 'light, be occasiens. upon .ehich at would be.
proper te wake •medifieetiona which might trench
u; 'W ine letter of it. .The Sinking• klund-did, not
Pleeeee all t !•e. advantages that•-tlowed.from its ope•
ration by the Teintityete the debt* -redeemed, but
the rnailie-r in sr. eich it. \vat; r.C;aeeitied, by the pro-
ceeds et- that Fund bt'uughc into the market!weekly
ate MOUII Illy. , .•: ' . • .
Mr. 1-liteK't9soN defended 'the plati Of' his Right
linie Freud It gaVe ea bonus to *ruins fur' in-
.i
*estiog.t;leir c.ipitals to the ertl..judice of theiretan'ii:
lira. 'fee sea,.- was ealculete, (teen:the tisetet prin.-
eipie:, 411 the probabilities oftife i, and al to the efrea
it aegili ate upon the morel; of the public, it ihotild
likle reeelleaed that the Sleet Annuities, willeh had .
rely t.:II -11 in, t.; the..tinouni'ot fOur or tive• bun -
(6qf teousand pounds per autittin, had been in the
'Market-, and had 'been us 'the market : without pro- i
diiciieg any such effea, though upon the principle
Q. the
.Gentleinen opposite, they were Much more ,
dangerous,` as they regal'red a larger proportion of
C apital' to be sunk:'•-Tnere evene:numberiess 'cases, :
its wilieh.it would be desirable ter parties to purchase •
Aaneities :or Lives other than their own;: and there
w'!re every day to be met many ruitiotis 'modes of •ac-
coeiplisaing 'that. object. In the present • state of
thi., Country, there were many casesof persons,
who, without injury to the interests of olhers, would
t tnellitse Annuities, and, the plan of his Rigel- Hon.
rfie'od, would enateethem to do that at the hir mor
ney. valueof : the Fumes At the 011ie.. His. Right
11." o• Vrt.end :had stated only, that considering all
orcninstances of peace or war, there was a greater
proteibility that the price of Stocks would rise than
it:il'. it, 411 d As the average price of the redemption of
1 .ve'r'ull4 Wti,ttici be nearer .to eighty than the pre-
, rat Prieeivii the'rise above the present price would
e steinucle gem to the public...,
Mr • etevetts.Gtany spoke shortly, as.nearly as, we
7411'1 eullea,,troin the low tone of voice in which he
ee.ll','red his,setnitnents, rather in terms of appro-
, 'station of the plan.. . ...
, 'Sir JOlll,l .Nnwroar observed, that this plan,cer-
ibsiitly heist out superioradvamages to such as should
e 'd'iPosed•toeake advantage of it, and deprecated
:"'helciing out any inducementi to the lower classes •
Lcie,'Peeulate in . annuities. The finances of, France
' ~,-4,,beou in .ah embarrassed ;tate et the time of re-,.
-,Tifqg'..to the.. lients.viageres, but that was4tot tile
,au in this ,Country at.present, and it was danger-
us
j7iror the Staie`to speculate in such transactions. I,
slut were vices in a•countiy, Government ought •
(I°Pattelea of theme •In France there tied peen
manyte;l„ifti,s,lll'.ce3 of persons who sacrifieed the Intel"
tifiesm `"L'ir posterity for their own linrodiate gra!
r . ll'il. ThAt. was not 'Consonant to the feelings
0, iiie-
peg e
..; , . , ,
1,
for, d Ple of ibis Country, and he shook 'there-
te'd -efiliecate iny.tncasure that would have the el-
ce " state
the. habits. and morals of 'this.
,Ptry with those of Fratiel.. .
4eTteitetav 'Observed in reply to what had fallen
,shuttles Right licin. Ge,ntlearan, (Mr..linAissoti)
iio Short Annuities had dot been of that &eerie-
( er, when first granted, thOugh they had afterwards
~:eatne such in the lapse of I,ime. As to the project'
:.
..
'3..f.contrittilng loans,. and the 3' per Cents redeemable !
a,' 80,.h0 had only said that the- moilied Geiniernen •
.wePuid nut contribute to such loans upon the same
1.. rini thy. otherwise 'Would, if-they were to be ob-
ttged to take. 80 per cent, on the Redemption. i
_. Mr. Rose obserVed, that though ' the first of the
,•
Rocks called Short:Annuities: had been created a
lc .
, i.? lg time back, yet during the last war Annuities .
Manes been granted terminable with them, so that in
T. 4 some of these Aunuities. had been for no longer'
t,erilt than 14 Or 1.5 years:- . . .
Mr. D. GIDDY explained. '
141'. AI.n.LANDER BA Ititid. considered the..state-
"client of the Chaitcellor. of the Exchequer perfeCtly
tile'll' but upon one point, the mode, of calculating
.. 4 value of thee ' If the
,calculation Was 'deeded
. uponte,lllelableS of life, it would be a bad cali':ulation
] 11,111110 Public, because, these tablea' Were•liirmecl.
ith`e" the ordinary probabilities oflife, and the lives
te:retil would be picked lives. He did not think
" P'an-vo Id succeed to any extent, and k crusted 1
it wouie.. u
Nteee.h `l'., not. A great part of the rise of the llunds
'au taken place since the last Loan, had been
Prodeced .
the sta • hy. . the stagnation of trade, but much of
iters it or,uation was not to he'attributed to the Or-
ets. .• •
. 1 outlet!, but to: measures not at all within
r p„
", c"")111 of the Government. The return of,
tabs would by giving other employment for capi-
L. • P
. pruciu",2te.l.l
.down the rise.' of theFinid. s chat weuld,b,et:,
The F,'.' -(1 q other causes; , But he apprehended that
Hof reuutlo, Would fall in 'consequence of a cletalcatioo
hi '''nuo,arising from the-staetiation of trade. Ther
an upon this w'hiOli Loans had h7therto been made in
Itltrest,u,ehntrtr, was to procure them at a IoW riite'ef
I tis to give the individual the lianee of the
eel.' Thuaethe.,burthen was laid upon pOstetity to
ee.ve :the preient iteneration. The plan of. the
,0,79,cen0r of the' Exchequer was the reverse, bor-
_ing• rat five per cent.' whereby' we should have
tir4:ll.4lYqtyst to pay,, and posterity less capital to re-:
- et • die bacfmat so sanguine a view of the state
the e,-
d,,, uances of the Country to think,this change
1 eriible. .
.
&few s
tastia . • miertl could not abstain-from bearing his
•, ati 'oily to the iiianoral tendency of- this plan. •In
, he
cases -, - • • -
. 1 , t.e-v c
oilw;Whereleoverninent prohted by the vices of
trY' It connived tThus it was that-
it'wes ..... '.. • at hem. , :
• .e-euse telster to' procure licences for all 'the ale -
the : s it! •1 he CouotrY 01311 It.) Suppress one ;` •441°
; , - latte,l!""fit Governent * derived from the, Stamp,
. ;tee ' l")tt m
them', it eves owing that :the. Country
, . 4 cystsge i :a a tee i •-11 . ie eie
Driecee„ e
. -'' 4IPPI*I to all the tuOunt4ank. exhibitions

wllleh saluted .the eye. of the, public it 4 evert street
of. Ihii -city. -When Government' profited by the
'.. ices of the Country, it Was not $o ze4lcus io son.
~ it
pressing them-. He looked upon these annuities at. a
moral poison which Should not be circulated.

The CHANCELLOR• of the EXCHEQUER tkrinked
site Honourable Gentlemen opposite tor the candid
manner in' which they had shewn their attention to
the plait he 'ltcfpropOsed, but had a, few onseria-.
time; to make on what had passedbefore the dote of
the discussion:. Gentlemen had talked of the immo-
ral tendency of his plan, and of the effel it would
havein-elianging the character of the Country.--
They considered the purchase of annuities as a vice
that ought to be put clown. If parents purchased.
annuities tbr their own lives to the ert.judice of their •
Children), that, he admitted, would be wrong, and
ought to be discountenanced. But would it not be
proper for a -*parent to purchase air annuity for his
child or for his widow, if the circumstances of his
property would not admit of any other provision
be idle to provide small annuities, suppose
for servantse or fur a widow, .on the security-Of
land, vOivi the expences of settlement, and perhaps
of recovery, would render the provision of no avail.
No lure was to be held out to any.
.description of
persons • the calculations were founcle&on the COM--
Ton principle, and there %Lem every day much
greater ttenptations held out without any security.
Irvitead•of haVing nth:total effeCt, the plan*would
afford an ojportuuity of atiting upon. the principles
or humanity and good .nature, in inakiter a pro-
vision for friends. He should not be partial to the
ineastlre) it it wetild tend to alter •the; national
charaeter. But upon every consideration he could
give; it,'• he found the
.baktnce of good greatly pre-
ponderate over any evil the might be likely to arise;
from its operation. :He had omitted to state, that
one of the Resnintions contained the pritnaple of the
calculations, and the scale of 'purchases, • anti that
they had been framed, not, only
.upon the table of
lives, but upon umuntcattof with t hose most inti-
mate with such subjects. It had been .said,t hat the Plan
would interfere in the operation of the Sinking Fund,
bat that must patio teen a -mistake; because, it its
operation were to ain.,unt to a million of annuity,
the whole sum tr.ilistricd for that would go to the
ComtpisSioners 'and add ,to -the amount of the re-
deemed Stock, weilst the -amenot 01 the. Sliming
Fund would affected only to the small extent a
the additional annuity created. The plen Mieht
perhaps"intertere with the letter of the A.et, but was
certainly its spirit, - and this was one of the
Cases in which the, .Finn. Gentlematr had admitted
that the letter might be departed from. StaNti
that' the effea 'of peace would be to raise the Funds,
t hough he did not say;that the rise would be as great as
after the Peace of •Annens. ,No Ch*ntlODUll WOQikt
be pledged th-ihe—niee-sure, but he Was glad to ob-
serve, 'that on cud putirt they were alt agreed, that
financial measure, so far as 'it would have en-
ttl4t,. it would be advantageous.
After a short c.t.iplanatiun friar! Mr. TieRNEY 314
Mr: A:: 13.setiNei, :he first . Resolution Was reed, and
the chairman havittg. reported progress., the Com-
nintee vas ordered to sit again wet:huts:day
Mr. BoaEtar .WARD presented, peronista to order
from the Heuse, a List of the Stores taken at,Copen-
hagen.--Ordered to lie on the table. " • ""*