The Sun.
London, England, 1830-04-08 00:00:00

What has been the coarse of proceeding where you

made an alteration of the road ?—Having arranged every
thing for making an improvement, we have been obliged to
come to Parliament every year for powers to raise additional
tails to repay the loan which the Treasury has agreed to
advance. The work is then executed by contract ; and
there has been a provision in each Act that the road
should remain under the Parliamentary Commissioners
for two years, and then be transferred to the trustees.
There is no part of the English funds of the trustees
you offer as security for repairs, or the borrowing of the
money for repairs in Wales?—No, the road has been made
in Wales by Parliamentary grants ; the state of the road
there was such, and the funds from tolls so pcor, that it
was impossible to do any thing without grants.
Have you ever had much difficulty in carrying
those numerous improvements into effect ?—ln the
first instance there was a good deal of difficulty
arising from the very limited powers of the Com-
missioners. Mr. Telford gave a plan for making
a road to go round the hills at Mockliffe; but the
trustees opposed it so much as to make us think it would
be impossible to make any- improvement of the road with-
out adopting their plan of lowering the hills, which was
done at an increased expense of upwards of 1,0001. be-
yond the sum required for making the line Mr. Telford
had proposed avoiding them. In another case, at the hill
at Cuttlemil, we were oisliged in the same way to yield to
the wishes of the trustees. I do not remember that the
trustees have since interfered with us; they now see that
Mr. Telford's plans are the best, and we have had very
little difficulty of late in carrying them into effect.
Under what regulations do you carry the improvements
into effect ?—All the work is done by contract. There
has been sometimes a great deal of work going on : in the
year 1825, we had at one time on hand the building of the
two suapen,ion bridges in Wales ; 17 contracts for road
making in Wales, five in England ; very extensive works
in the harbours of Holyhead and Howth, and the new
making of the road from Howth to Dublin. After the
contracts are agreed to, and deeds executed, the work is
superintended by Mr. Telford's assistants, one of whom
has charge of the bridges and roads in Wales, and another
of the contracts between London and Shrewsbury. In-
spectors in some instances are employed, where the works
are far asunder, whose duty it is to be on the works from
the tiate the men come in the morning till they leave the
works in the evening, and watch all the proceedings of the
contractors.
Can you state from your own knowledge whether the
improvement in the road has increased travelling upon it?
—The travelling has increased immensely. I was ap-
pointed last summer by the Commissioners to go down the
road with the assistant secretary, to examine into the state
of the accounts, with respect to the loans and the repay-
ment,: by the additional tolls ; that gave me an opportu-
nity of looking into the accounts of the different trusts,
and, among other inquiries, I examined what the tolls were
before any new works were begun, and what the tolls now
are, belonging to several of the trusts, exclusive of the addi-
tional tolls for paying off loans ; I found, in the case of the
Hockliffe and Stratford trust, the tolls let in 1819 for
1,7,131., and that the same rate of tolls produced in 1828
2,0831. ; that upon the Stratford and Dunchurch trust,
i❑ 1819, the tolls produced 3,5631., and in the year 1828
the saute rate of tolls produced 5,0761.: this being a trust
about mid-way from London to Birmingham, the travelling
on it shows what is the general travelling on this whole
line; in the case of the Dunchurch and Stonebridge trust,
the increase has been so great that the trustees lowered
their tolls last year, so that the present rates of tolls paid,
including the additional tolls, are the same that were
formerly levied by the trustees for their own purpo,,es ;
that trust I know has at present a surplus of 2,0001. in
bank.

Do you know whether the increase in the tolls to Bir-
mingham upon this line of road has caused any diminu-
tion on any other lines of road ?—I should imagine it must,
for I know that several coaches to Birmingham have come
off the (Word line, as well as a great deal of posting to
the Coventry road,
Do you know whether the trustees collected them them-
selves in 1819, or whether they were then let by public
auction?—.When first I knew the road, some of the tolls
were let, and some not ; but with the exception of the
Stratford and Dunchurch trust, I never heard of any loss
on account of tolls, or in any case of any impropriety of
conduct in managing the tolls.
Can you state that there has been any diminution in
the expense of repairs in those parts of the road which
have been improved ?—ln some places where the mate-

rials have been very good the expense of repair has been
quite a trifle: there is a piece oft road between Coventry
and Meriden, made by Mr. Telford, on his plan of put-
ting a paved foundation, with a coating of broken stones ;
the stones being remarkably hard, the heaps prepared for
repairs remained on the sides of the road for three or four
years afterwards, there being no occasion to use them :
if, however, a road is ever so well made i❑ the first in-
stance, unless the materials are good, it will cost a good
deal in repairs; but in proportion as a road is made
strong, and particularly if made with a proper founda-
tion (a stone pavement, where it can be got), the sub-
sequent repair of it can be secured at a much lower rate
of charge than that incurred in repairing roads made in
the usual way.
Do you know whether the great improvements that
have been made in any case caused any local burthens ?
I am sure there has been no charge of that kind on the
road.

No burthen has been thrown on the parish ?—I do not
know of any instance of the kind.
To what extent had Mr. Telford a general superintend-
ence of the making of the road ?—Mr. Telford acts under
orders of the Board, and these being given to him for any
particular work, he prepared the plans and the specifica-
tions fur a contract ; when the contract is agreed to, and
the deed executed, his assistant sets out the work and su-
perintends the proceedings of the contractor.. The success
of our measures has been owing to the particular care
with which Mr. Telford arranges his specifications and
drawings of the works before the contracts are made, and
subsequently to the very strict and severe inspection he es-
tablishes over the contractors ; and further, to the plan of
payment he always introduces into his contracts, which is,
having the work measured every fourth week, and a cer-
tificate given for the payment of what is finished accord-
ing to the specification ; at the same time that a reduction
is made of 10 per cent., to be kept back till the whole
work is given over by the contractor, so as to have a fund
in the hands of the Commissioners to be expended by them
on the works if the contractor does not fully comply with
the terms of the contract. In consequence of this arrange-
ment, I know we have not exceeded in any instance on the
English part of the road, and I believe it has been the case
in Wales, the price agreed to be given fur the work con-
tracted for; we have never paid more than the price
originally agreed to : where matters have occur-
red to make it necessary to find fault with the con-
tractors,' and to be dissatisfied with the work, we have
always had sufficient money in hand to complete the
work as it ought to have been originally done, without in-
curring any additional expense.
It appears that in the Sixth Report, in 1819, Mr. Tel-
ford estimated the road across Anglesea at 52,0001. ; in
1823 there is an additional estimate to complete it, of
10,4491., and also a mixed account of 17,0001. for the
Menai bridge?—bay former answer referred to the prices
agreed to be given to contractors to execute certain pieces
of work at certain prices; I believe that in no instance
has more been paid fcr executing the works. With regard
to the estimate for the road across the island of Anglesea,
I am not competent to speak at this moment to the facts
included in the question put to me—there was no money
granted separately for the Anglesea road ; the grants were
made for this toad and the Menni bridge conjointly ; I am
able, however, to say that this road of 21 miles across the
island, was executed for a sum below Mr. Telford's esti-
mate, as to the work of road-making ; but in the line
there was an embankment to be made across a strait
of the sea, at a place called the Stanley Sands, about
three quarters of a mile in length ; the forming of
this embankment in a situation exposed to the open sea
necessarily was a matter of prodigious difficulty to accom-
plish ; notwithstanding, however, that difficulty, the work
was most successfully accomplished, and it has stood re-
markably well. If any excess in the expence took place
in making the Anglesea road beyond the original estimate,
(which I believe was the case, but not to a great amount),
I am certain the cause of it was the great difficulty in
forming this long and high embankment with common
earth in the sea, with the end of the embankment exposed
to be washed away by a violent current on the rising and
falling of every tide. The contract was by the cubic
yard. The expence incurred on the Menai bridge was
greater than the estimate, because the plan was altered
after the estimate was made.
The St. Alban's improvement was estimated at 10,000/. ;
a subsequent account made it between 15,000/. and
16,000/. ?—ln the case of the St. Alban's road, where
two miles and a quarter of new road was made from St.
Alban's to a place called Pondyards, the road was made
for the price agreed for with the contractor; the extra
expence was in some degree owing to branch roads and
other things required for the accommodation of parties
connected with the road, but more particularly by the ex-
cessive damages the Commissioners were obliged to pay for
houses taken down for the making the road through the
town. The estimate referred to was not an estimate for
road-making ; it was composed of what money was wanted
for road making as well as for damages for land and houses.
All the particulars of the expence incurred in making this
road are given in an account in the Appendix to the Re-
port of tile Committee of this House in 1828, on the state
of the Barnet and Sr. Albania roads.
What rule was principally followed in the appointment
of Commissioners?—Ten Commissioners were appointed
by the Act of 55 Geo. 111., for the improvement of the
Holyhead road ; in the year 1823 the Committee on the
Holyhead road recommended a consolidation of the Com-
mis:don of the Holyhead road, the Commission of Holy-
head harbour, and the Commission of Howth harbour ;
in 1823 an Act was passed for that purpose, and then the
number si Commissioners was increased by taking a cer-
tain number of the Commissioners of each harbour.
Were they paid Commissioners ?—No.
Did the Commissioners or the Committee order the
different surveys ?—The Committee of 1817 recommended
that the Treasury should order a survey from London to
Wales. Of late years there has been no general survey
made; the surveying for the purpose of making plans for
improvements has been executed by the assistant engi-
neers resident on the roads, without any particular charge

for suryeys.
Were the expences of the Commissioners paid ?—The
travelling expellees of the Commissioners are paid when
they are acting with the officers of the Commission, on the
business of it.
Were the Commissioners named in the Act or by the
Treasury ?—They have bee❑ named in the Acts, except
in one instance, when the Treasury were empowered to
name three Commissioners.
From the experience you have had, have you anything
to recommend as to the course to be pursued, in case of
the improvement of another great line of road being taken
into hand ?—From the experience I have had of Mr. Tel-
ford's method of carrying on road improvements, and of
the system established under it, also of the training of the
officers belonging to our establishment to their different
duties, I have no doubt of the competency of our Board to
carry on road improvements to any extent without the
smallest difficulty. In the year 1827, I was applied to by
the Treasury to assist in the carrying into effect the im-
provement of the Liverpool road. Mr. Telford had been
employed by the Treasury to make surveys of that road.
I agreed to do so ; and by the Act passed in that year, this
road was placed under our care, in the same manner us
the Holyhead road. We have been since occupied in
making improvements; some of the local parties concerned
have required mere surveys, and these have been made,—
In the last year I was at Lichfield, and arranged a plan
with the trustees for making four miles of new road from
Lichfield to Brereton, on the road to Wolesley bridge; and
in consequence of Mr. Telford pointing out other improve-
ments, a Bill is now before the House for a new Turnpike
Act, to enable the parties who have applied for it to make
twelve miles of a new road between Coventry and Lichfield,
by which wady four miles of road will be saved, and
several hills avoided. The trustees of the road from
near Stone through Newcastle to Talk-on-the-Hill,
have made several valuable improvements according to
Mr. Telford's plans, and manage their road in every way
after his instruci.ions. As nearly all the improvements on
the Holy head road are completed, and also the works at
the harbours of Holyhead and Howth, it is not necessary
to continue the present commission as it is at present con-
stituted ; and therefore, if it were thought advisable to
take advantage of the experience that has been acquired
in conducting road improvements, in carrying on the ge-
neral improvement of the northern roads, a new commis-
sion might be formed in the place of the present one, com-
posed of as many new Commissioners, and such a number
of the present Commissioners, as together would form a
commissio❑ in every respect proper and competent to su-
perintend the improvement of the northern roads. By
taking this course, the plan of management which has
been in every respect so successful on the Holyhead read,
might be applied with as little difficulty to the northern
roads as it has been to the Liverpool road.
Does the conduct of that commission belong to the
Board of Woods and Forests ?—By the Act of 55 Geo. HI.
the first Commissioner of Woods and Forests is a Commis-
sioner of the roads, but he has no particular powers. At
the time this Act was passed the Treasury directed, in
order to keep down the expense of an establishment, that
the meetings of the Commissioners should be held at the
office of the Woods and Forests ; on appointing our
officers, if I recollect correctly, the then Chairman of the
Woods and Forests, Mr. Huskisson, recommended that the
Secretary of Woods and Forests should act as our secretary.
Is it your opinion that in the new weeks to be under-