The Sun.
London, England, 1839-02-20 00:00:00

prayer of the petition was so reasonable, that the HouaP aqua
find itself compelled to accede to it—he hop :es
ed that eta
Would be taken at the bar, in order to sec if the allegation
the petition were true, and if so, whether the .renledY.
grated was the proSsto• one. Other opportunities avolltt
_tt
themselves for a discussion of the whole question, he w'rlald_ne°4
therefore, detain the House further than by making a St'
pia& tilt..
a,
appeal to the agricultural Members. Let them not
selves in a position in which their fellow-
they were afraid of hearing the truth. The question:l9s,h,
party one—hunger was no party question, neither coultinsT,
question of the means of providing provisions for milli() ""
made one.
Lord HOWICK—Sir, in consequence of what has fannend
subjects might•say by;
from the lion. Members fur Wolverhampton, Derby, 3
of
Manchester, I am anxious to take the earliest opportunitY to
stating- the reasons which induce me to give my 01),°s iti°9 an
the motion. I, Sir, oppose the motion not because I
advocats for the exist.rs system of Corn-laws, on the contras'
from the first moment 1 had the honour of a seat in this flolusr::
I hive entertained a strong opinion of the impolicy and the '
one es
justice of the existing Corn-laws. In the year 1823 I formed
a very small minority who joined the Hon. Member for
_Ns'n's
;tinny in voting against the principle of the present tie's),
laws. The experience I have gained since that time has obl'oJt
strengthened my conviction that the existing laws cannot .ty,
be prejudicial to the interests of all classes of the coalmen ss
and my experience goes to show me that they are retiree Ig_uss.
titularly prejudicial to the interests of the agricultural nig
—( Cheers. ) Hon. Gentlemen opposite may consider
the
a paradox, but. when the question comes regularly before ie
House I will be prepared to state my reasons for ectniagt
such a conclusion. In the mean time, I will sfy this, tht asi
will oppose the motion nowbefore the House, not because I a'".„.
advocate for the present system of Corn-laws, but on the.7sot
trary, because that I am an opponent, a firm and consit:s'ir,
opponent of the present fluctuating scale of duties. I do °lions
oppose the motion on the ground of form. The lion. 11 Of
ber for Wolverhampton has quoted many precedents, lob.
-which I am prepared to admit were most pertinent to tO the
take
ject. In my opinion, it is perfectly fit for the House
the course prayed for by the petitioners. I can see 110
before
larity—no impropriety, in adopting that course---.bt,
be
doing so, we have most seriously to consider whether it "0'0,4
advantageous or disadvantageous to us in arriving at a!tuaill
view of this very important topic. In my oOsion,• Sir, oil
not have au advantageous tendency ; on the eontrarYlost
opinion is, that by hearing evidence at the bar we will °ll, the
instead of promote the desire which we all have to ettloog
question. I oppose the motion, Sir, that by t° to
we would cause great delay in arriving at any conclusionb.ire,
my opinion we are 1161 V ripe for discussion upon the eao,J,,, of
Both parties--the opponents equally with those who ars'ressiss
the present laws, are in possession of the means of /sett
the question. It is not, Sir, so much with respect to th:ooin
themselves that there exists any difference of opinion,
substantial facts are matters of certainty, and arc acknoo7o°,re
to be authentic on all sides. They do not rest upon the stse
statement of witneses either at the bar or before a CAvaolleisi
up stairs, the greater part of them rest upon returns• nitninseuse-'
documents which have been laid upon the table of this _side
they rest upon information which it is impossible for eitherf the
to dispute. From those documents we are made aware loots
prices of corn in each year. We are also made aware of the et
510,
and imports of every article, and if the information is °°,
eient, we can call for snore details—we can call for anicahatsfe
mation as must make us masters of the question. All t iron'
wish to arrive at. is as to the conclusion we are to draws( se.
these facts, which may be taken as authentic—the nind,ce"„oints,
counting for the existence of those facts —these arc te.sii bad
upon which any real difference of opinion exists. Sir, " oat/
wanted anything to convince me that all the materialsriFtcoolfl
for the discussion of this question arc already prepared, 'S salt
have been furnished to me by the elaborate an"etsto•
speech of the lion. Gentleman who proposed the r°,
,tli,
Every Hon. Member who listened to the speech of tht salts
Member for Wolverhampton must have perceivoi t•''
fifths of the speech was not. i • favour of any inqury' hutsse
have formed a i dmirabie speech in favour of an alter!' sin
the present laws.— ( Hear, hear.) Taking it in that sen.ls'iosst
I admit the facts and reasoning of the Honourable Gent 'Ger
but that being so, on what ground does the Honourablebe port
tleman call upon us to hear evidence at the bar ? Dtd
know the nature of the alteration which had taken ow tete
ferent countries? Every Hon. Member cannot fail wiesSer
lect that was one of the documents on which the iron. .I%''ciosel
enlarged with the utmost force, and with the greatest Be tare
of reasoning. But,r,Sir, what more is there to be stated Ocoee
points ? We know the facts, and what is desirable is toe 001
these fact; with the operation of the Corn-laws ;it sting° Iso
how these facts arise from th • operation of the exi for
relative to the importation of corn. Sir, I 1: elieve toe:
sible to connect the tax s hich the Hon. Member has; o
tioned with that state of the law. I believe the csnellbli9
which he arrived is a just one ; but I say, if you can the Pry
that:conclusion, you cal rerceive that conaection only by soot(
cess of argument and of reasoning ; and to arrive at that, pets
no more inconvenient course than the examination of ‘rttstees
Gentlemen who are in the habit of attending Como'
tba
this House will concur with me in the opinion I Cl
there can be nothing so entirely unsatisfactory, so ell"' ss
c in as the examination of witnesses on questionle-bate/
Mon. Questions of opinion require to be discussed in "of co;
argument requires to be continuous—the several stets übe.,
soiling require to be made one after another—(llear).iolt
you attempt to do this by question and answer, the re; iisell
that you come to conclusions that arc illogical, 0-0 r`ct 1-1°11(
to work conviction upon any mind. I am sure that
Gentlemen who are frequently in attendance on coffin° ;pi,
this House can hardly fail to have arrived at a different lies'
What is really valuable in the Reports of our Oar:: aitutdef
what is really of intrinsic value and service—is, ft„-,,e10,1 t
discussions on the statements of fact—the various staS--ci sr:j
fast which ill the course of such examination are (die° i• ti
upon this subject of the Corn-laws we have those sts's:rre''
facts which enable us to form a judgment in tho ebtet
manner. I quite agree with the Hon. Member Jar befl r'
ter, who spoke in reply to the lion. Baronet. the Asic°'„rescfid
Wiltshire, in saying that there is no subject at taerirtiolts
moment more deserving of occupying the time and
the House—there is none to which we can more Kofita sor
ba
a large share of our consideration.—(Cheers.) at, t be
sideiation, to be valuable—that consideration, t° aot,j
otteo,
portant—should be given in discussion and debates and es:;
the form of a desultory and inconclusive' examination 0 tb'
nesses at the bar. But, if I vhsre convinced that o°oo s
nether information was beceSSary, and infoirnation °statics'
description that it could only be obtained by the exastno-ld''''f
of witnesses—if I were satisfied upon this pOint, I su°; nst,
that it was worse than idle to conduct. the inquiry by la-ol'ial/
a Committee of the whole House. Have not Select Co 0 for
tees been often found the most inconvenient iiistrigaesit
conducting an inquiry? It is found that Hon. Mentbehrt'otstsi''
ing their own particular views, examined WittlesSeS V6tt.. i 5
different objects and intentions. The result is, that "ones,'
difficult indeed to follow anything like a regular and c° is be"
line of examination. That ;examination almost is 50
comes desultory, irregular, and inconclusive,
is afillooe s;
rid of this inconvenience an arrangement
that no Hon, Member who has commenced a I's, S'
line of examination, shall be interrupted to the C'°i-ntell.ll,
The result of that arrangement is, that you hav delays' Ob'-
nable and useless repetition of evidence, you have I,
are almost endless, and a mass of evidence which.altbissi:rs
take the trouble to read.—(Hear, hear. ) Sir, 's' irarse,
been practically found to be the result of conducting a° oitt t
into any complex subject by a very numerous Select Crace's, tat
and this has been so universally acl;nowledged on all ranito
within the last two or three years we have agreed too° welt"
number of Members who shall be put upon any t Sititect
except for some special reason, to fifteen names. 'us', Se
e r
this inconvenience is experienced even in a nurner°-i atrss
Committee, just let me ask what would be the state; holietet
amination conducted before this House. Does anY be 001°0
that a regular and connected examination could be c sod
in this manlier, because Hon. Members who Prorojneoot
mode of proceeding, must remember that if they be.g—s, clef
it will not be in their power to limit it. 00°,40
confine the examination of witnesses to some tS":".ibeir sso
questions, prepared beforehand by a committee; ° oat, to
nuraber.—(Hear, hear). If we were to atiesnPtooriegse
subject ourselves to the great reproach, by enticoassseflit'sti,
stifle the truth. No sir, each witness must. bc .as;tot
cross-examined—he might be cross-exaniinecl V:bis
or one hundred members, each having their .own Ortood,
to prove, and their own particular notion to rOkf'.g sail° tal
cross-examination. Nor is this all : if you es:attilnitoesse'sieft
on one side, you cannot possibly refuse to hear woosactvb,
another.—( Hear, hcar). You cannot hear the nail es see
adduce their evidence, to show that the Corn `,l'9 rte, to
worked injuriously to them, and afterra!ote A
hearing witnesses no the part of the lande"ssto" ld sfocea
give you their views of the injury which ",,:eaa.ster
from their repeal. And what would be the bagel stWattels''
you would have witnesses from E •gland, fin
from Jr land to tell yo . what was the state os tdea s',
i;. thes • different parts of the ountry—you s.°Tee Prsica.oll
upon to go into the further question :f what Is S' -0
which Corti could be grown, is Poland, in Rufs'as' in
id °,
or even in India, according to the statements 00°
Member for Wolverhampton ; and you W0111(1 frO°efurt'- le
test the evidence you would hear -upon these poot:et, eo!,
set of witnesses, by the examination of another beeasstity
should have the same questions raised which hay° rid ins
son all Committees, on agricultural distress, viz. ho 5:01
it does not form an ess.enti.l part of such inguLrl:,, he,
interminabl question of th • Currency----(Pise-jildP"
In
for the Honourable Member for the Nort"oiriPtli°,.
Yorkshire, and the Honourable Member for ,
would pronounce such an inquiry as this to be 11.tee7....-.to
sire, unless you went into that never-ending subiebere Is
hear. ) With such an inqoiry as this before us, tef°t'bat
expect it will end? Will one Seision suffice airy salo
three Sessions suffice to conclude such an inctstlao, /;tiorr's
Sir, I say they will not; and I say that those -siog sssi gess
believe that a change in the Corn-laws is of pre' hott Offur
ante—( Hear, hear )—that not only the prosperitYsose
costs,,
safety of the country, are hazarded by the continn;bo erSIJ
present system.—(Cheers. ).—those Gentlemen obar
en
with me in that opinion will hesitate before theY e tit ct;
this inquiry, because, if we embark uP° on 01,1 e
ocean of inquiry at the instance of those Gentle:moss' is ISO
tend for a change in the law, it will .be le t I
ofer
resist it before it arrives at its close. It rem' sfie 117 00,
them, when they find themselves wearied,. by "a %.o„ice
which that inquiry proceeds, by the Volumes. at:,e
evidence which they have before them., it tql let fiou itar.
them, in this state of things, to say, " Olt, n° late tia',"be
done with the inquiry. Let us proceed to legiss'se ask t° ;
subject—let us return to the track from which '..„
bat th'ota~
nately departed in the first instance; let 'iii,sststiFS; GOt Di' of
discussion of the subject in the no.s6.''' oesssitts
when they wish to retrace their steps; will be itlhe rieelref„(l
remarks, " By your conduct you have 'sidrnitedi've recit'Aol the
inquiry—we hold you to your own admission. 'it pit'io
having commenced this investigation, not to tarcts,
incomplete. We call upon you to finish it, tom ie 01° pesrot
whole case, to know the real truth, and the ;,„g j
fore you venture to legislate upon a st d`atreche—pret°,, ore
so many important interests." This would ts“b" e; t's." le
in which the advocates of the change venale` objeah' e°,o`ts
were the opponent of any change—if .11'Y whic-are
to stifle discussion, and prevent these debatcs this ieb 'to
lead to a reform and change in our policY--if ~re `ache
object, I should recommend that precise Ineaisi-ed trP7of `for
lion. Member for Wolverhampton this night Par",elo,
adopt. I have heard with great pleasure , (1•0°- oco
speech of my Hon. Friend, in which he stated htt piste s f
thinking a change in the Corn-laws necessary, bast realiaol
vain for anything like an intellitsent statement of
sotto s
adopting that particular course. 'When not if °lt'er time gsee'es
to that • art of his speech he seemed to hurry n'tigs h° weehs
to touch the question lightly and gently, a, th.° f hi, all Of
conscious of the inherent weakness of that pars° 00011, , the
and like a skilful advocate wished to divert the °alio b his
at all like a valid reason for pursuing the "oileat fruiscleci
House from the subject as speedily as possible.
_sirs, %Oeo
Honourable Friend recommends, that I cot cd that e res'iot
part of his speech, seemed to be that he intag'o,e,l,or ittiti an or'
Produced at the bar would make a rots el' gtl'atee. Or to
than evidence produced before a Select Comni ifieieot
toe
s,
tance to induce to induce Hon. Members to piaceeessaceo,
know what queetions would be considered of
Ilk
the trod ssoces'
peruse the immense folios which genera which .esti'of
Select Committees. This is not the manner i°_sr
either on t
ken
ibeforenor out of
this
House. Committees is brought
isnot to jn
hgnetn.cepris' t ha°o7afj
Members reading the evidence thus prOduc?'-; subj ct's
persons who really felt an interest ita "'those
oordesitulitningallfriotins btehaerminssmsn.
tshtaerings,pv_soeneateis,lo,ar_,efot)oreff:s.
theyt whol
. reasoninguwnedrunderstood
sh
What would be the effect. of hearing the e",S ,bether tt-ought to bear on the House rus4ls,„ce lie'
Committee of that House? I doubt nice"