The Sun.
London, England, 1863-10-26 00:00:00

The R H. W. Beecher at Manchester,

,"'n: •jes- morning, on the occasion of a public
est at the Albion Hotel in that city, the Rev.
H W and Beecher took leave of his Manchester
t least as many of them as the large din-
ing saloon would accommodate—previous to his
departure for America. The Mayor of Rochdale
(lfee G. L. Ashworth) presided.
The CHAIRMAN briefly opened the meeting, and
in his observations said that they had assembled
there that morning to take their farewell of Mr.
Beecher, and to give the lie to those who had said
that the people of England had now no sympathy
with that great question for which their forefathers
so gloriously and so successfully struggled—the
abolition of slavery. England always did sympathise
with the 'slaves, but nevertheless our Government
had done right and deserved our warmest support
in the course of neutrality which they had and
were pursuing on this great struggle ite America.
After paying a tribute of thanks to Mr. Beecher for
the, good he bad done in England by his recent
speeenee, which had set the public here right on the
Aemerican question, he called upon
Mr. F. TAYLOR, who moved a resolution thank-
ing Mr. Beecher for his able and eloquent addresses
to the people of this country, hoping that he would
inform his friends in America that the feeling here
was not one of hostility towards that country, but
One of friendship and sympathy. and assuring him
that he had their warmest wishes for a successful
journey, and for the success of the cause which he
so ably advocated. Mr. Taylor particularly wished
Mr. Beecher to tell of the successful meetings that
had been held in England to hear him—meetings
such as the Southern sympathisers could not get up.
This was a fact, and if it was doubted he only said,
" Let Mr. James Spence and his friends try, even
in his own town of Liverpool, and see if the people
of that piece even go with him."
Mr. J. PATTISON (Liverpool) seconded the resolu-
tion.
Several gentlemen having supported the resolu-
tion, which was unanimously agreed to,
The Rev. 11. W. BEECHER rose, amidst loud
cheering,to return thanks. He commenced by saying
he deeply regretted that he could not begin what he
had to say with ladies and gentlemen, instead of
with gentlemen only. (Laughter, and a voice, "We
represent the ladies.") No, they did not. No man
could erer represent a woman. (Cheers and re-
newed laughter.) It gave him very great pleasure
that morning—and it would have given him still
greete r pleasure if he had been blessed with the
powee of feeling more—to meet so many kind and
valued friends. If he had done anything in Eng-
land towards converting them to the abolition and
Northern cause, he must confess he had also been a
Convert towards England. While he had seen much
during his sojourn in this country of the prejudices
and misconception of the American question among
the people., he had seen much in himself that was
prejudice towards England and misconception of her
people. And it Was not the smallest triumph that
he could say that in the small course of two or
three weeks during which he had spoken in Eng-
land, he had gained a victory over his past im-
pressions and prejudices. His English friends in
America, when he used to speak of England as he
could no longer speak of her, used to say to him—
elb, you don't knew Old England ;" and he used
to reply that he did; but when he got back to
them he should say very hurablyL—" I did not know
Eeglaud." (Loud applause.) Thequestion on which
he had to speak was a great question—a broad, an
intricate, and a multitudinous question in its con-
tents—the American question ; the total of which
was the whole of human society. It was the top,
the bottom, the centre, and the circumference ; it
began here, and went there, and back again. There
was no question in morals, in philosophy, or any
Other question in which humanity is interested that
was not involved in this great American question.
It was difficult, therefore, to always speak on a
question of such immensity and magnitude so as to
meet the requests of the audierce. In Liverpool the
treatment to which he w..s subjected was, he felt
—and he must do them the justice to say so—rather
an outbreak of party feeling than of opposition to the
liberty of free speech or sympathy with the Southern
cause. Tne speeches which he had made on this
question were not authoritative, inasmuch as they
had never passed under his hand or eye, and there-
fore he ought not to be charged with any inaccu-
racies that might be discovered in them—inaccu-
reeks which arose from the hurry in which the re-
;porters had to transcribe, summarise, and frequently
'to take their notes, and not from any wilful misre-
presentation on their part. He was a newspaper
man, and he knew the difficulties connected with
reporting for the press, and especially when only
the summary of a speech had to be written, and the
Writer was not well acquainted with the subject of
that speech. Hence, although summarised reports
might perhaps represent the tenor of his speeches,
will they did not always represent what he said,
and he should not, therefore, be judged by them.
Daring his visit to England the keynote to his pro-
gress here had been an attempt to use his informa-
tion so as to promote a better understanding and a
lasting peace between this country and America.
They wanted to draw closer the bonds of amity and
Rood fellowship. That had ever been his object in
addressing the meetings he had attended in Eng-
land, although he had been warned by one paper,
I)4iln News, he believed—and to which he wished
to bear testimony
th how glad the Americans were
a'that paper had dared to pursue such a course
wit
regard
to their conflict—the Daily News had
warned
as the Tzt notali to tout e upon such subjects—such
culated to asox, for instance—which were senatecal-
e from him the feelings and sym-
pathies of
wish to renew th::!""sti people. Now, he did not
with, but he count as it was past and done
lishmen, whether, not
help asking them es Eng-
they would not have thefel case had been vice versa,
what the Americana felt and done on that occasion
news of the capture
oftanddid ? (Applause.) The
rapidly over America, r
everybod chuckled
Mason and Slidell spread
thee y with great glee, treating
aa
but in two or three days
some ptuse as a good joke,
to the newspapers saying that t'Zcs:er sent a letter
very well, but there happened"?
tare was all
a Power as England, and
auchta be such
international law, and what
tae a code as
se
it 9 " What is the law on this le ect Y say about
al
body asked every body else, and elm every.
gas
to t
rdraw long faces, although there W,‘ha he-
that Capt. Wilkes h a nal.-
venal conviction aa " on an
English precedent. That conviction still rens.-
--caned
with the Americans, and it was grounded on a fact,
The moment the capture was made known to the
American Government, Mr. Seward wrote to Mr.
Adams, in London, a private
note, which he was re-
quested to read Lord Russell (and which he did
to
read to Lord Russell), stating that they were
anxious to settle any Some ten days after
question that might be raised
thereon amicably and fairly.
that note had been received and read in England,
and after it had oozed out that such a note had been
received, the Morning Post, which was looked upon
as the semi-official organ of the Govern men t, declared
that a communication had been received by the
English Government from the American
Govern-
ment, but that it had no relation whatever to the
Trent affair, whereas the communication was on the
Trent affair and nothing else ; and to this hour that
paper had never retracted that most lilaiiciotis false-
hood. (Applause.) Many said those men should
have been given up without calling upon the English
Government to make a demand for them to be so,
could
but thatnot be, inasmuch as the English
doctrine was that they had a right to condemn a
neutral vessel containing contraband of war without
bringing her into amciprze court, as England did in
180 A
7 ; whilst the
an doctrine or law was that
vc—sels containing contraband of
war must be taken
into a prize court. Hence the American Govern.
ment wanted to know from the En
hale Government
which law they proposed to act upon,and the
a English Government chose to
acttnePeoanpttehreeAd
men. men-
n d eeoc! rine, and the; gave up the
The rev. geetlemen teen, is allusion to some news_
peper a' lecke made upon him in coneequence of his
reseal ks about
the prosperity of
America, repeated
was America had the
that never since
and commercial prose
been rnre ma!erial
thae tt ere W 99 in the N-,-..ftern States at the pre-
‘

sent moment. Every tradesmen and manufac-
turer was as busy as he possibly could be, and
he was trying to meet all the demands made upon
his taxed energies and skill to proviec goods.
Labour never was more abundant. Everybody had
employment for both head and hand, and the mone-
tary affairs were easy and healthy, notwithstanding
the assertion of the Times editor to the contrary.
All this was very pleasing. But it was said the
crash was certain to come sooner or later. That was
true, if all the prosperity he had described was the
result of an inflated paper currency. The question
hen was, " Is there more paper in circulation in the
North than there is actual and available property in
the North ?" and to that he could reply,
" There is
no more paper in circulation in the North than is
safe, when we have the means to convertit."
dAii notnew
country must have credit, an old country
need it. Such being the fact, in about once every
thekbinudbbolef mwaisaceelvlear-
-10 years a commerciaanldcwrahshen—
a
neous crash—came,
the property remained. The community was sot
hurt by it. The property was there, the only differ-
ence being a change of owners. He believed Ame-
rica had never been more financially sound than she
was now. Tradespeople were doing almost an en-
tirely cash business. The Government had issued
bonds upon the whole American Union, and not
State bonds as before, and the consequence was that
probably some 400,000,000 or 500,000,000 of capital
of the North had been invested in the security
offered by the Government, which, under another
name, was in America what the consols were in
England. The Americans felt that their Govern-
ment must stand, and hence they made it their
trustee and their savings bank, in which they in-
vested their 100,000,10,000, or 5,000 dole. Nothing
to the Americans seemed more sound and healthy
than the credit of the United States, and hundreds
of millions of dollars had been invested in the United
States bonds in that way. Referring to his own
church, he said the blacks were allowed to sit any-
where—wherever they got, but it was not so in all
other churches. The treatment of the blacks in the
North had been bad. The North had been poisoned
by slavery when the party *ow triumphant was in
a minority. All the present majority in the North
asked for was that, since they had set their faces for
going to Jerusalem, nobody would stop them. The
late riots in New York were the sore raised up by a
foreign blister. They arose through the misinformed
Irish believing that if the slaves were set free there
would no longer be any work for them. After some
further observations, which were mainly repetitions
of what Mr. Beecher had said in previous speeches,
many questions were put to him regarding the con-
stitution of America, the anti-slavery party there,
the laws, &c., all of which he promptly answered.
The proceedings did not terminate till between
one and two o'clock p.m., although the company sat
down shortly after nine o'clock a.m.

Mr. J. Laird, M.P.. upon National Defences.

On Fridal last the prizes for rifle and artillery shooting
competed for on the 17th ult, by the volunteers of Birken-
head and district were distributed by Mr John Laird, M.P.,
who presided.
The CHAIRMAN, after some remarks upon the constitu-
tion of the volunteer force, addressed the, meeting as follows
—Having said this much, I may perhaps be now allowed to
go into the question of the defences of the country. The
army and navy, everybody admits, so far as the personnel
goes, is kept in the highest possible state of efficiency. In
proof of that I need only call your attention to the charac-
ter, conduct, and known abilities of the officers of the Chan-
nel fleet, which lately visited this river. (Cheers.) I have
had opportunities for years—nay, all my life, in fact—to
meet naval men; but I must say I never met a set of men
better adapted to fill the position they were placed in than
those who were here with the Channel fleet; and I feel con-
vinced that, if provided with groper means, they will fulfil
their duty to the country. (Cheers.) Gentlemen, in last ses-
sion of Parliament, and in the session before that, great at-
tention was paid not only to the army and navy, but also to
the way in which that army and navy should be armed—the
sort of rifles and the sort of guns that they should use. A
great deal of discussion took place t.bout the Armstrong gun;
and so much was said about the millions it had cost, and
about the wasteful expenditure upon it, that I really thought
the gentlemen who made those remarks in t he House ot Com-
mons were giving expression to mere figures of speech
rather than to anything else. But the statements were made
again and again. They were repeated day after day and
week after week, until a committee was appoint ed to inquire
into the merits of the Armstrong gun, its cost and its effici-
ency. I was appointed to act on that committee, and rather
hard work it was, sitting for two or three hours a diy for
two or three days a week through two Sessions of Parlia-
ment, And I ant bound to say, having sat on that committee
during the Sessions of 1862 and 1863, I was satisfied that
pratically £2,500,000 had been spent on that gun, and that
we had not got value for our money. (Hear.) And why did
we not get value ? Because I believe the appointment of Sir
William Armstrong an injudicious appointment. He was
appointed Engineer-in-Chief of Rifled Ordnance, and, of
course,thought his own guns were the best that could be con-
structed; and, therefore, as an honourable man,he was bound
to endeavour to carry out his own principle; but ho did it
with a bad result to the country, because, by being placed in
that position, I believe men like Whitworth, and Blakeley,
and others, who have invented guns and have done much for
the scientific deveiopment of the gunnery question, were
kept back. I don't wean to impute anything to Sir William
Armstrong, but I say his was an unfortunate appointment
on the part of the Government—(hear, hear)—and my opi-
nion is that such a post should be opened up to the country
generally; and that in scientific matters cf this kind you
should endeavour to bring to bear all the best and most per-
fect knowledge in the empire. If you do that, it strikes me
as a self-evident proposition that you are more likely to get
the best invention than you would do if you confined your-
self to the invention of merely one man. (Applause.) Sir
William Armstrong started the ElswickOrdnance Company.
When he was appointed the Engineer-in-Chief of Ordnance
he retired, but his partners carried on the business, and
they had a large amount of work, amounting to one million
of money, in three or four years to do for Government,
the Government spending the other million and a half.
Many statements were made in the committee, and very
much evidence was taken. Mr. Whiffin, the Accountant-
General, was called, and proved that, had the work done by
the Elswick Ordnance Company been done in the gun fac-
tory at Woolwich, the country would have saved, on an
expenditure of £600,000, no less a sum than £240,000; so
that we may calculate what a saving would have been
made if you reflect for a moment that the amount spent was
£1,000,000, and the work might have been done at Wool-
wich. I will candidly admit that there was a difference of
opinion upon that point, but my argument in the committee
was that Mr. Whiffin was called as the Accountant-Gene-
ral to verify the accounts presented to tae committee. And
who is Mr, Whiffin? it may be asked. Well, he is a man
appointed by the Government to go to India, and put the
accounts of the army and the department is India in a pro-
per and sound basis. If he was an unfit and improper man
to be pat in that position, we must take it for granted that
his evidence before the select Committee on Ordnance was
incorrect ; and, if he gave evidence that was incorrect, then
the Government should not have sent him on that mission to
India. I believe there has been a large expenditure on these
Armstrong guns which might have been avoided. But I will
not give you merely my own opinion, I will give you that of
his Grace the Duke of Somerset, who was himself examined
upon this committee, as to the efficiency of the Armstrong
gun after all this enormous expenditure had been incurred.
The Duke of Somerset, in reply to question 5,012, said—
:!.."We had a report that the Armstrong gun had the greatest
'age and the greatest power of penetration of any gun tried ;
old 68-pima
the
The
to try it ourselves that was not confirmed by
ha.verlid_ he Armstrong gun, at a great distance, may
at 200 lregrrarr Power of penetration, but for naval purposes
,tercertainly had not the greatest power. Our
pounder Aralit_,l3s a more powerful gun than the 100-
they had been. f,'IZ gun." This was evidence given after
of money. Th7awark for five years, and spent 2i millions
short range than that°
a 68 pounder 6,„;:tacru, the noble duke goes on to say that
Grace said, in reply old style struck a harder blow at
4-Pounder Armstrong gun. His
t:Zstion. 5,108—" I thought it ao
much an advantage
throw a 100 lb. shot thee e
wtonottiesidered it probable that the
a 70-pounder tg,un that could
armament of the Warrior
trieda have been xlllOO-pounders;
haprotila that I became aware
and it was not until we
pounder against Capt. Colea's eaa 14-Pounder and a 68-
blow than the
-, were made by
that the 63-pounder struck a
pounder at short range." Other at r
you—bat I thought it right to
Menem,.
zwo which I need not
100-
the noble duke and other patties, with.
question, because at this moment it excites etloollY into this
hasguns of very naiderable
Wrest. America great power a d in-
great
trouble
and every naval officer with whom jue af very
size; awls
me that in naval wars battle - Con
versed has told 8 will be fought
at den qu .ship 14-at c
efficient arter ; that the can deliver
the harder
blows at 200 yards will be the
have mostalready
ship; and the
Duke of Somerset, as youheard, has stated
that at short ranges the old 68-Pounder smore efficient
than the 100-pounder Armstrong gun. I do not say that
the 68-pounder is the most efficient gun
that n
we Can
get;
but public attention has very properly been drawn to this
subject, and the next thing that We must do is t 3 see how,
in regard to naval guns of increased size and power we
can work them on board ship. Perhaps it may be said
that. I should apologise for going into these matters, but I,
b
for one believe that the Volunteer movement is an
essential
part of the defences of the country; and that unless theed
Army, the Navy, and Volunteers are properly.
117 the
and equipped we cannot expect adequately to —e--
f,
country; and, as we ought to do, carry the war into thl

enemy's camp, which is the proper way of banishing
intruders. (Hear, hear.) If we are to go into
this question of large guns which has been talked of so
much, and which has been looked after, not only with great
interest in this country, but with more than usual interest
in America,—if we are to adopt those guns, we can
only do so by resorting to the cupola plan of Captain Coles
to work them. I believe that by that plan we can work the
largest and the heaviest guns. I know we can work guns of
from 15 to 20 tons with the greatest possible ease. We
cannot do that on board a broadside ship, and if our battles
are to be fought and won by ships with the heaviest arms-
ment, the sooner we consider the question of the ships best
calculated to carry those heavy guns the better it will be
for the country. What have we done on this subject I
The cupola, I should tell you, if you do not already know
it, stands in the middle of the ship, and you can strengthen
a vessel to carry a cupola of any weight. You can armour-
plate a cupola to any thickness-12 or 15 inches, and you
can make it perfectly impenetrable to shot; and, as it is a
very small portion of a very large ship, you won't depress
the ship much in the water, but the battery will be well
protected and imprevious to shot. That, you will see, is a
very great point. But what has our Government done
with regard to this plan ? There are two plans now before
the public. One is that of Captain Coles ; the other is the
plan by Mr. Reed. Now, it is quite clear to naval men
that, if either of these plans is to supersede the old broad-
side system of gunnery, the sooner eithet one or the other,
or both, are tried the better. But again I ask, what has
our Government done ? In April or May, 1862, they
stated in the House of Commons, after various remon-
strances, that the Royal Sovereign had been ordered to be
cut down to be fitted with Coles's cupola, and that another
was to be converted on Mr. Reed's plan. 1 venture to say
that if proper exertions had been used those two ships
might have been ready in six months from April last (hear,
hear), and I don't believe they will either of them be ready
for six months to come. In the meantime, a large
amount of money has been expended in other ways ; and if
these plans of Reed and Coles should prove to be the best,
we shall have wasted some millions of money on ships of
another construction. If we were to go to war to-morrow
our navy is not—l say it advisedly—in such a state as that
we could go to war with a certainty of success. How do we
stand with regard to iron plated ships? If we were to go to
war with America, they have a number of iron clad turret
ships perfectly fitted in every respect for coast defence,while
we have no ships at all that are suited for the purpose. It
will not do to say, as we did daring the Russian war, that
we can build 150 or 250 gunboats by means of private yards
in 12 months, Armour plated ships require a length of time
in their construction, and I say most emphatically that it
would be the best policy of this country if the Legislature
would turn its attention to this question, because, although
the fleet we saw in the Mersey the other day was composed
of most magnificent ships—most of them drawing from 25
to 28 feet of water—l need scarcely tell you who know any-
thing of the port of Liverpool that they are perfectly unfit
for war on the coasts of France or America. (Hear, hear.)
If we went to war to-morrow, we should go into that war
for the first year or two under most disadvantageous cir-
cumstances, and then we should have to turn cur dockyards
and our private yards to some account—in fact, to do some-
thing to get us out of the scrape in which we should find
ourselves, as we had to do during the Russian war, because,
if in that war we had had a sufficient number of efficient
gunboats, which we had not until the second year of that
war, we would have put an end to that conflict much more
rapidly than we did, and at far less cost to this country. I
think it right to impress this point particularly upon the
meeting. We have only two ships that I can find on looking
over the Navy List that could possibly be considered suit-
able for cost defences, and those are two vessels constructed
on Mr. Reed's plan. Why they are not brought forward I
cannot pretend to say; but I do believe this, that the money
wasted in the naval administration of this country is some-
thing., fearful. We have spent from £30,000,000 to £33,000,000
in the last three years, and got a number of large ships
afloat, some of which you saw in the river the other day,
and others are building, but not ready, and none of which
will be of any use to us to carry on a war in the circum-
stances in which we shall most probably be placed. I state
these facts distinctly, (Hear, hear.) I have stated them
in my place in the House of Commons (hear, hear), and I
have no fear of their being hoard by anybody in any place,
because I can prove them to be correct. I a,sert, then, that
there are only two ships capable of application to coast and
harbour defences; and that the two ships on Captain Coles's
plan draw so much water that they are utterly useless for
the purposes they are intended for—namely, the defences of
our coasts and harbours; and, moreover, that they are neither
masted nor rigged, nor are they fit to be sent across the At.
'antic, It is in vain that Captain Coles has protested to our
Government against this state of things. lie
has urged
them to make those ships serviceable, not only for the de-
fences of our own coasts, but for foreign service. I need
not tell any of the many commercial men I see here to-night
the difficulties that attend ships of great draught of water
getting into and out of Liverpool. How, then, can ships of
that class cruise about our banks ? (Hear, hear.)
AV hat we
want is a number of ships of a certain description, of from
8 to 10 or 15 feet draught of water ; and, unless the Go-
vernment come to do something of that sort before very long,
we shall have to spend a large sum of money without being
in a position when the time really comes to meet the emer-
gency; and we shall in the end spend considerably mole
money than would be the case if we considered the queStion
well at the present time. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Cobden has
been pleased within the last day or two to make tome com-
plimentary remarks about my late firm at Birkenhead. I
don't agree with Mr. Cobdeot in his conclusions. I don't
think it would do to abandon entirely our Government
dockyards; but I Jo believe it would be desirous to main-
tain them to a certain extent, while at the same time
they should have throughout the country a portion of their
work done in private establishments, so that in case of
war we would not only have the resources of the national
dockyards to rely upon, but the extensive resources of the
private yards, the proprietors of which would understand
how to do Government work. (Hear, Lear.) But we stop
progress in this country, and the naval development of this
country has come to this, that it is supposed that when a
gentleman is appointed controller of the navy, whatever
his antecedents may have been—however respectable he
may be, however good a sailor he is—yet he must needs
carry all the shipbuilding brains of the country in his head.
What I want is simply this—that the Government shall
bring to bear for the interest of the country all the talent
that exists in the country. That is done already by the
Government in respect of engineering for the navy, and I
need not tell you who have turned your attention to the
subject that the engineering talent of this country, as ex-
emplified by Penn, by Maudslay, and others of considerable
eminence, has been the means of bringing a vast amount of
talent and ingenuity to bear in the construction of the most
perfect machinery which science could devise for propelling
our ships of war; and this would not and could not have
been the case if one man only had been placed at the head
of the naval engineering department, and everything left to
him. Competition is desirable in all things, but in this case
it is desirable extremely for the true interests of the country.
Ido not want to be personal at all, because I will take the
testimony of a certain vessel's operations. I *ill take two
ships built in this neighbourhood--the Alabama and the
Florida. (Loud and protracted cheering.) lam not at all
ashamed, ladies and gentlemen, to own that my sons de
signed and built the Alabama. (Renewed cheering.) Nor,
I am sure, is the builder of the Florida ashamed to say that
he designed and built that ship; but the testimony borne to
those vessels is not the testimony of Birkenhead or of Liver-
pool, or indeed of this country, but the testimony comes from
America. They are two vessels that have been afloat for
some considerable length of time, and they have defied the
power of 400 ships. (Cheering.) They have never been
caught. (Renewed cheering.) They were designed and
built by private individuals, but in this country it is the
misfortune of the managers of our marine to imagine that
one man and one man only is to carry in his head the brains
of all the designing talent of the country for building ships.
If they had got a little life in the Admiralty, then they
might have improved on the Alabama and the Florida, and
perhaps on other ships. (Laughter-) We have been ac-
customed to hear of the Americans boasting about their
shipbuilding, and that they built ships to run 20 miles an
hour. Ladies and gentlemen, the Alabama goes 13, but
the Americans have never been able to touch her. I
certainly do not agree with Mr. Cobden that we should rely
on private interests alone. I think the Government should
do in respect to shipbuilding as they have done with regard
to engineering. As f have told you, I was a member of the
committee for two sessions on the Armstrong gun, and that
committee recommended, and carried their recommendation,
that the inventions of all able men should be properly con-
sidered. That was a great step in the right direction—(hear,
applause)—and, no doubt, our gunnery will be
very much
manucleh
advanced in the future in consequence. (Hear,
hear.) I may, perhaps, be tiring the audience—(cries of
No, no, and cheers)--hut when I was asked to come here I
did not come here merely to talk about the volunteers. My
intention was to speak on the general defence of the coun-
try; and, therefore, I now want to state, as shortly as I can,
my views on some points connected with that matter.
(Cheers.) You have had this point repeatedly stated in the
House of Commons, and it is one which is of lasting impor-
tance, and that is tke question of dock accommodation for
ships of the Royal navy. (Hear, hear.) Many gentlemen
here, no doubt, are connected with the trade of Liverpool ;
and I will just tell you now what the position of the Royal
dockyards are as compared with Liverpool, and then make
a few remarks on that point. Liverpool and Birkenhead have
400 acres of dock space, and 28 graving docks. The whole
of her Majesty's dockyards, including Chatham, Sheerness,
Portsmouth, Plymouth, and other places. have only 41
acres of dock space, and the number of graving docks is
mouthohar
33. but only tour or five of them are capable of taking in
"hips likeiral thea Wmaerrior. In the Mersey, the other day,
Zetfl act looked nothing at all ; Put we have seen that at
got back to the south one part was obliged
to got time
they
Plymouth and another to Portsmouth, aid Ports-
mouth would not take them all in. Why, the
idea of
coming u himself that he was alarmed at the very
Mersey,
and he pottheoul:lefrssiyt ;hut
again, heas gsoatfeliyntaos the
e
could do, and as we
100, every eay in the year with
did
t axpayers, they are all interPeajesdt''ixes;
very large merchant ships,
householder in Birkenhead pays (Rear, hear.) Now, every
and therefore, being
where the money goes.
I'll explain to you where some still.
it Roes. Supposing, in-