The Sun.
London, England, 1830-07-03 00:00:00

VOTE OF CREDIT.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved
that the House resolve itself into a Committee, to con•
rider further the Supply to be granted to his Majesty.
On the question that the Speaker leave the Chair,

Lord 'AI:THORP said that as this motion was the first
step towards passing over some of the most important
business of the Session, which could not be done, in his
opinion, without great detriment to the public service, he
felt it his duty to enter his strong protest against the pro-
ceeding. The vote to be proposed was intended to
tate, the dissolution of Parliament, before it entered upon
the questions of the. Civil List and the Regency. Not-
withstanding the great labour Hon. Member. had under-
Rene during the last five months, it was the intention of
Governmeut, at, once and entirely, to defeat the whole
effect of that labour. lie had nut been convinced by
what be had beard on a former night; nod he was oath-
fled that Parliament would run a needless hazard by post-
poning the two great subjects to which he had referred.
Ile did not intend to give the House the trouble of divid-
ing, hut he begged to enter his solemn protest.
The SPILANTIL then left the Chair, and the House went
into the Committee of Supply.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rose in
order to propose the grant of a sum on account of the
votes on which the House hail not expressed an opinion,
and also of a sum necessary for the payment of other
charges to be incurred before the date when the House
could be re-assembled. The first point to which be should
direct the attention of the Committee would be analogous
to the proceeding on the demise of George 111. and the
measuree then adopted to facilitate business. On the de.
raise of the Crown there were certain claimants both upon
the Consolidated Fund and the Civil List, for which no
distinct provision was made; and for the convenience of
the public service he proposed to take 200,000/., being the
sum voted for the like purposes on the death of George 111.
As to all the other votes, it was his intention, with only
one exception, to take a certain amount upon account.
That exception applied to the disembodied militia, re-
garding which a Bill must he introduced, and he appre-
hended that no objection would be taken, inasmuch as time
auto to be required bad been previously ssnctioned by a
Committee. It was convenient to the poplin service that
that vote should, he passed without deduction. As to the
other votes, lion. Members would he aware that at this
period of the year a considerable portion of the expenee
must necessarily have been incurred. That amount it
would be indispensible to provide, or time greatest incon-
veniences might arise from the Treasury not being
in possession of the requisite funds.—(lleer, hear.)--
The provision he should suggest beyond that amount
would be, to cover the expenditure of three months,
making the whole equivalent to the payments for nine
months of the year. Ile preferred this course, because
it would, in no respect preclude the amplest discus-
sion hereafter of each separate vote on the re-assembling
of Parliament ; the discussion might then be undertaken,
if not under circumstances more than usually Adm.
.tageotts, et least equally advantageous. Although it was
his intention to submit one geueral vote, he should think
it right, that in the Act of Appropriation a specific clause
should be iutroduced to prevent the application of money
intended by Parliament for one purpose to any other, so
that no more thest the due proportion could he devoted to
each breach of the service. The House would this have
the means of examining and debating every distinct item.
Having thus stated the principle on which he proposed to
expedite public business, be should merely move the vote,
declaring his readiness to affard any other information un
the subject that might be required. Ile Inovell—" That
a sum of 200,0001. be granted to his Majesty, towards
satisfying such annuities, pensions, amid other payments, its
would have been payable-out of time Consolidated Fund of
Great Britain and Ireleud, or out of the Civil List, in case
the demise of hit late Majesty had sot taken place, before
the 10th of October, 1080."

The question having been put,
Mr. HUME, taking it for grunted the House had re-
wired that the course proposed by Alinisters should be
!mega, had no hesitation in admitting that the plan of
taking money upon account was most likely to secure
hereafter a fair consideration of the remaining estimatee.
Ile begged it to be clearly understood that be did not con-
cur in the vote from confidence in blinietere, and that be
should be perfectly consistent it' in the next Parliament,
should be have the good fortune to enjoy a seat in it, he
resisted the votes fur what he was now, under the cir-
cumstances, willing to grant—money on account. When
he recollected that it was the prerogative of the King to
dismiss Parliament whenever he pleased, and that it bad
already been determined by two majorities, though not
that what was recommended was the fit
course to be pursued, he Could not expect, even if be
wished it now, to bring on the discussion of the remain-
ing estimates. He certainly highly disapproved of many
of the decisions to which the House had come regarding
die public expenditure, but he struck the balance of
good and evil, by placing on the other side of the sheet
the grant of Catholic Emancipation and relief to the
Dissenters. If the Noble Duke were to remain at the
head of the Government, be hoped that a new Parliament
would meet with a determination to exact from Miaisters
the effectual reductions which the state of the country de.
mantled ; and he should take as a test of the disposition of
those Ministers the amount of Civil. List they required. lie
trusted, before the House separated, it would order such
returns to be made as would give the fullest information
on the subject, and that the reports of 1812 and 1815
would be duly weighed and examined. Ile also trusted
that a statement would lie produced of the expenditure of
the Civil List, from 1790 to 1796, and fur the years
1815 and 1810, in order that a just comparison might be
made. He wss willing in settling the Civil List to pro.
vide liberally for the maintenance of his Majesty; he
wished to withhold nothing that was necessary for the
comfort and even for the splendour of the Crown ; but he
would prevent all needless extravagance. From the cha-
racter of his present Majesty, the country bed a right to
expect that be would not call upon it for more than was
necessary fur the due support of the Royal dignity. When-
ever the time for Inquiry into thie subject might come, it
was absolutely necessary to get rid of the prevailing com-
plexity of aecounts. Nevertheless, as they at present
exited, they afforded some useful information, and a return
for which he had moved at the opening of the last reign
*hawed that during the reign of George 111. nu less than
12,705,4611. had come into the possession of the Crown
from the Droits of Admiralty, the 4i per cent. duties, the
Scotch revenue, and other sources beyond the controul or
cognizance of Parliament. Every shilling of this enormous
sum ought to have been placed in the public pure ; anti
the Hon. Member particularly urged the impolicy of the
system with regard to the Scotch Revenue, under which,
favouritism and corruption had been lung encouraged. He
referred to what had been said on a former night respect-
ing the freeing of the Civil List from the anomenell at Pro-
sent existing in it; for instance, he could not conceive why
the Speaker of the House of Commons should be paid
partly out of that fund, etsd partly out of wine other. The.
esme remark would apply to the solaria of the Judge*,-
The diplotnotic service was not the least expensive este.
bliehment couneeted with the Civil List, and be hope,' that,
in future it would be placed under the maim' of Parlia-
ment. He entreated attention to another item---the Pitt.
aeon List. There was no , branch of the public ratio v*
strongly and so justly disapproved of lithe public as the
enormous amount of the Pension List. When they s4'
-95,000/. of the English Civil List, 50,0001. of the Irish
Civil List, and 26,000/. of the Scotch Civil List, taken
film the controul of Parliament, it was rettsunable that
they should be dissatisfied. He saw no reason why all:
distinction between the Civil Lists of the three kingdom'
should not be done away with, and confined solely to the
King's household, while alt the expences relating to Scot-
I end and Ireland ought to be eimplified, And annually laid
adore. the House of ennunntw. If, on the meeting of a new
Pediment, Ministers should not be found disposed to

trench all Unnecessary expenditure, notwithstanding the
reluctance they had shown of late year to interfere,
he hoped that the .Representatives of the people, in
obedience to the wi-bes of the people, would compel the
servants of the Crown to pursue a more economical course,
and to adopt 'measures calculated upon a scale adapted to
the present condition of the country.. To- one point ho,
especially intreated the Right Hon. Gentleman (Sir It.
Peel) to attend. No abuses had been so great us those
connect:Li with the 41 per cent. duties; upwards of tij !
millions had been received since the enactment of those
duties. He never could understand why the House
had voted against the motion be had brought for-
ward, for an account of the English pension list—( Here.
the Hon. Member was temporarily interrupted.)-,—Per—
hope what he was saying might not be well timed; but
if he lest that opportunity of stating his opinion, as soon
as the supplies were voted, there would he but little chance
of another. He maintained that!the House ought not td
grant .the Civil ;List, until the dfper cents. rand other•
funds were taken from the power of the Crown, and
placed under the cnntroul of the Houscrof Commons. A
new Parliament ought also to set at -rest the question of
Droits of Admiralty; for it was a strange regulation, that
the Sovereign, who had the right to declare war, should
be. ntitled to a share of the plunder ; although it .was not
fur a moment to be supposed that such a motive had any
influence, it was an objection that it was liable to the sus-
picion. it was impossible not to perceive, that
the collection - of the Droiti was sometimes attended
with the most grievous injustice ;- and the lion. Member
illustrated this position,- by referring to the last war with
Denmark, when English subjects, whose property had
been confiscated in Denmark, were not compensated tiut
of the property of Danish subjects, whose goods had been
seized in England. He also adverted to the collection of
the revenue* of Gibraltar; and complained, that while
this country was called upon to pay all the expellees of the
possession of that fortress, the revenues, which the King
had the right to raise as he pleased by new taxed, were
sent to England to be appropriated to the purposes of the
Crown, without controul or responsibility. After again
enforcing the necessity of simplifying the public accounts,
he expressed his hope that Ministers would meet the new
Parliament with every disposition to attend to the reason-
able wishes of the people; if they showed only an incli-
nation toward* relief, by retrenchment of the public ex-
penditure, they might sat at defiance all fears that the
House would outvote them, and be mitered all their anxious
maturuvres to secure majorities.
Mr. LENNARD observed, that it was his intention to
withdraw his motion standing on the book regarding Civil
Contingencies, iu hopes that he should, be able to refer the
whole subject to a Committee next year. He called the at-
tention of the House, to the reason assigned by Mr. Pitt
.for the increase of the Civil List, via. 'that it was neces-
sary, in order to. meet the depreciation in the value of
money at that time. The same reason at the present mo-
ment would warrant the reduction of the Civil List to the
sum at which it was fixed befiwe the increase. The Hon.
Member fully.concurred in all that hai been said by the
last speaker regarding the complexity of the public ac-
counts, and stated that he was prepared to show, that
tinder the head of Ambassadors there had been an appalling
increase of expence.
The next Resolution was, " That a sum of 200,00(4, be
granted to his Majesty, to satisfy the Annuities and other,
Clahns upon the Consolidated Fund to the bth of ()ember
next."—Agreed to.
The question was then put, "That a stun of 1,126.6811.
be granted to his Majesty, to defray the expellees of the
Irish Miscellaneous Services, the Army Extraordinaries,
the Commis/4.46a, the Civil Contingencies, and the Re-
pairs of Windsor Castle for nine months of the year
ISM"

Mr. SPRING RICE objected to the mixing up of al
many matters in one vote, which had no natural cinmee-
lion. The House might fed that it would be highly in.
expedient to vote a certain amount for one of those par-
prism and yet in no respect o!ljeetioattlde to agree to the
sum proposed for' another. One Hon. Member, might
wish to submit observations upon one eubject—nnoteer
upon quite a diflereut topic; it was obviously Meow/oil;
rot, and wore the appearance of unfjirmiss, thus to
mingle in a confused mase so many uneonnected and'di.-
cordant questions. Ile begged to assure the Right lion.
Gentleman opposite, that be wished not to bring forward
any captious objections, but when be recollected the
period of the Session at which these votes were brought
forward—when be remembered the circumstances of
the country, and the history of the establishments,
and the system which these votes were intended to
maintain, he could" not refrain -from offering to the
House a few observations. In the first place, the Com-
mittee which sat above stairs upon the subject of beida
affairs recommended that all the miscellaneous eatinistes
for Ireland should he brought ferwerd upon the responsi-
bility of the Treasury in 'this country, ate a matter of no-
tional expenditure, and not be brought forward as a mutter
of Irish policy, by and upon the respousibility alone of the
Irish Secretary—that was a recomineedution at once ap-
proved and neglected. It war not from any want of con-
edeeee ill the Noble Lord opposite that he made that de
servatioo, hut from a lenowledge of the difficulties by
which any one holding his simation war surrounded--the
spirit of Irish jobbing suet him everywhere. The mo-
ment Clot Irish Secretary waived at the Castle, he was
surrounded with all the pensioners, plan:men, and sine.
curists, who hail an interest is maintaining these estimates
at an elevated point, and in prevailing upon the Govern.
went to abandon the recommendations of the Committee.
For that reason then, as well OS for taw* nut lees co.
gent, be wished rather to ace the matter in the hands of
public functionarioe at this side of the water, than at the
other ; and for proof that he was not making this &serves,
dos on insufficient grounds,,he would appeal to the Right
lion. Gentlemen who eat at each side of his Noble Friend,
both of whom had bees Secrets' lee in Ireland. It had
often been urged by Honourable Membere representing
places in England, that Ireland was an expellee to this
country. Now the hue mode of getting rid ef, or at least
diminishing that ex pence, would be to reduce the e•tiamites
for establishments in that country ; and he therefore ap-
pealed for support to the Eirglish Members whom be saw
around him. Of this they might rest matured, that if they
yielded to the advice which recommended them to leave
those establishments to expire of their own accord, they
would never live to witness that expiration. Nothing
could he more gross or unblushing than the Wahl prac-
tised respecting a particular class of establishments in Ire.
laud--he meant the Charter Schools ; there the romance
of renewed youth appeared to be brought into real life
and actual praetice; for in those places children were
found to grow younger and younger every year ; the sumo
parties which, in a certaiu year, bad one ago placed oppo-
site to their names in returns, in the succeeding year were
found to be younger by a year and some months. For
the remedy of this and other evils of a like character in
those establishments, he would suggest the appointment of
a Board of Commissioners to institute a strict inquiry into
the nature anti extent of the existing Awe". He saw that
his Right Hon. Friend the Chancellor of the. Exchequer
Was opposed to that suggestiou ; but he begged to assure
him, and the Howe, that nothing could be further from
hie intention then to recomuwnd thurappolotment eta paid
Board. .The next subject to which he should call their
attention Was alma of much importance..-that of education
in Ireland, Year after year he had made suggestions on that
cuhjeet, and always without effect ; for, year after year,
the Government, in each instance in which he pressed
the subject upon their cousideration, asked for time to ma.
tore and arrange their plans : et one titne there was
new Government, at another there was some other cue
and so they went on •from year to year, promising much
and doing little—nothing was done but the voting of pub-
lic money. On every occasion Government said they
would either adopt the recommenilatioto that cream frum
his side of the House, or bring forward some plan of their
own, or ask for. no more of the paddler money; but the
House nowt be fully aware that matters appeeted to he as
fee from improvement as ever. The etluestilin deft was
given was an education not calculated to inspire Irindncss
or brotherly love, but one of very opposite: tendencies, it
Was a system, too, by which education wee given to those
who had little wed of it, and denied to dower by le whoa, the
omtint. would
viwitilaoeginisijilltu.ttosoutiftflitittillimettvtliVtlawit stgufeel yAfloefreml tip.,eubr s
(01‘,:lual
escit4sti..lll:l, then, that
in I►gland
ought to be withdrawn altogether, or else Government
plan which should---riot give tads.
fiction to all men, for that would be imprectleableund ra-
sher:try...hut ahould meet the wishes and eXpeetations of
would wise,u,oukia,mlprionin
japrairytiarlaiougin of every data, anal,
&
4bove all things, prevent the public money Irons being
longer given Si) particular classes—from being longer used
to excite those psi ty feelings which the groat *weenie of
lust
year
d uh" tend to allay.
Some daises plan ought, indisputably, Co he tolorl4di god
avid) sumo blight modifications, he thought it better
probably not be devised than that recommended
in the Report of the Committee of whiCh lie was
Chairman. The Hon. Gentleman then proceeded to
notice the amount paid to Lish neweraptire fir prod amis.
dons. Ho said it was a vote Ai illjUlloll3 tie the clotritenT
of the press eta the proposal respeetiog Irish rtswspeper
Stamp Duties would be sure to prove iejorious tat their
circulatiou. Ile next objected to the expellee of teeititaios
ing what was calla! the Irish 011 ice in London--it w.te
source of expeuce and delay, without any correspoodelit
"vantage—it was &feuded only nu the ground of it' hieing

- - -
made available for the purpose. of see -ntg n supply of the
various papers that might be moved for in Parliament ; yet
what was the fact ? There wto no source., tram which
Parliamentary infUrtnitiou teas deriVell ulcer so much de-
lay as from the Mob Office. The expenuee attendant upon
the publicetion of anc;eet teeords Was also another ground
of complaint; it Was eats umely desirahle that the aarient
history of the country *both! receive all practicahle illue
tration, but be thought that alkit!i:t.w,a4 nut l'artvarded in a
manner creditable to the Commissionere, by the publica•
tion of extracts from the " Memoirs of Captain Hoch," '
and a pamphlet attributed to the Rieht lion. Member :of
that House, entitled, " A View of Ireland, Past and
Present." There was another channel into whirl, the
Public money was, us he conceived, num improperly di-
reeted—he alluded to the grants for public works ; those
autos, he thought, ought out to he voted away in large
masses, but Amalfi rather be so granted as to develop,: the
means cud resources of the country, producing gond,
not evil. The best way, in his opieinte of giving
such grants was, as loins payable eta of the county
rates. In illustration of the benefleial effect of such
bane,. lie adverted to the grailuid increase of the Customs
and ,Excio# in .those parts of Ireland where they had
been grantei, And where, by the increased prosperity
of the districts, they yielded a four.fuld return, The
reform of Juries was another point upon which nothing
had been done, or• wan likely to be done, in the. presint
Session; the same was true of Sheriffs, and e►pecially of
Sheriffs in corporate towns. The mode of eppoieting
Sheriff, in the city of Dublin wad a disgrace to the county.
He was aware that nothing would be does upon them?, or
respecting the Sub-letting Act, or the Arms Act, or a
variety of Others. Neither was the affair of Sir Jonah
Barrington proceeded in. After an Addrese had lawn
agreed to, praying his removal, the whole matter was
abandoned, and he. was left iu the full discharge of his judi-
cial functions and autbotity. The lion. Gentleman con-
eluded by complaining, in very strong terms, of the job,
king and abuts which marked the whole system oldie Irish
Government.

Lord P. L. GOWER admitted the perplexity to which
Irish Secretaries were exposed, and expressed hie sense of
obligation to his lion. Friend for tie sympathy which In
felt with the pain which those 'difficulties ocessionerl.
The suggestion respecting the appointment or cimuuni.
sinners of Inquiry was not without its value, and should
'receive the best oonsideration, though it might be attended
with some serious difficulties. lie met the observation
respecting the Charter schools and other establishments by
saying, that the reductions since 1827 had amounted to
r 0,9504 On the subject of Irish education, he (rated
there wonld nut be general satisfaction. given by any eye-
..

tem which did not satisfy the bead, of the great religious
bodies into which the country was divided—and he feared
that to effect that object would be extremely difficult.
Respecting the objection taken to the sum voted for pro.
abonatietes, he had only • to say, that so little had he
meddled, in any tnetterr connected with the Pit% that he
could not tihdertalte to say what might have been the
amount of influence foronerly exercised by the Irish go-
vernment over the Wen; but he could outlet take to arty,
that at present it exercised nu influence whatever.
Mr. BROUGHAM was aware of the apathy and in-
difference which the approach of a general election always
creat.d among the Membera of that House, but even at
the, risk of offending, even with the prospect of hieing
con.ideled obtrusive, and even uneourteons, he Gould not
allow that opportunity to paw by without once more warn.
ing them of the consequences of their present course—
without once more pointing out to them the awful regent.
'Ability they were about to incur. They %vole now called
on to agree to a vote of a sum of money on account of
certain miscellaneous estimates; but he apprehended few,
very few of them who were willing to give-their vonsood
to it, had any distinct knowledge of the items of which
that estimate was composed. Among the various heads
which it embraced, 'were two, if he mistook not,
,the
most important, and the must open tot discussion and
dift.lence of opinion, of all those which load come be.
fore Parliament during the present ti•esaion. These were
the Rideaux Canal And Windsor Castle.—( th.ur, hear,

hear.) On the first el these. Rents, en hon. -Friend
of his, the Member for Preston, (Mr. Stanley) hail
a motion pending now fur nearly six weeks ; a motieti
on which lie had promise' to pit. the house in lies.
eeesion of all the information
,which his ;mewed inspee.
tiun, talent, and experience, could bring to the subject,;
'and yet they were now Called on to vote the money for a
project threatened with this opposition, and without'any
of that inquiry and deliberation which it was obvious it
required. On the second question, that of the espencee
of Windsor Castle, there WAR aye a great ditieretwe of
' opinion—he might say a veryetrong concurrence of feel•
ing in opposition to it. lie recollected very well, when it
Was proposed that the House should vote a BUM of money
for the repeats of Windsor C.lblie that the House actually
eximonied so great no objection to the proposal, that
Mmisterii were compelled to give way, end consent
to the anpointinent of Si Committee to hear revi-
dines on the oubject up steins. Ile did not know
whether that (I:morel ittla lad made a frport,i[ 84,
Robot Peel said wens the table that it had rico;,
Well, then, if they hail not, he could say, from What he
had heard of the evidence, that It war impossible for
that Committee, unless its opinions, were governed by a
strung Ministerial majority, to egree to the items of ex-
penditure which were cinitaineeliu that estimate. Now
these two catenates---two disputed estimates—formed a
portion of that 1,100,0001. which they were now Called
on to vote in it letup. They were told, however, that the
Howie Was nut notinnitn.4l to any of the estimates by thus
voting a stun on account. its otentended that they were
continittedi for they not only approved of the items of ex-
penditure without examination or inquiry, but they went
further—ethey me their signature to the hood.--they
voted the loisr.).—lf that was nut
committing themselves, he kneW not what was.—(llear,
hear. )—.ll the payment of the money did not pledge
them to the vote, he knew not what could, he call-
A pledge ; and bow OM gentlemen who thus 4:e-
pee(' of the public.; money could answer to their
constitueuts, or to the country, he was unable to
understand. lo vain would it .L 0 afterward' to ob-
ject to extravagant ettimatee. In vain would it, he to
disapprove of iinpriwident expenditure. The answer was
ready. 'You have voted the money, and how eau you say
you dill riot admit the propriety of the estimates ?
,(Ileer,licar.)---Tltere being, however—heyend this ques-
tion of improvidently consenting to vote a sum of money
On account, and therehy enabling MiniSters to dissolve the
Parlietneut.---a question' of touch deeper and more awful
anxiety to the Members of that Homo and the country,
the risk of a disputed succession ; the danger which may
accrue to the Monarchy and to the people should rest with
the Crown, end With the advisers of the Crown. Ilut
was that House likely to stand eletolved from all blame?
Were they, who consented to pot the Ministers in a con-
dition to dissolve the Parliament, by granting the Sup-
plies—were they, who consented tat allow the Parliaines4
to be (16401* without entering into the question of the
Ittgency anal these other topics which wl 'atenngly doe
innncleal their attention? No. They were. the parties to
blame. That House would be ta Name; and by this in
genuity ache Ministers, all the zitterolstit oft
this fearful attempt to postpone the question' of I.a• ;blowsy
is shifted rout their shoulders, not liven shared, but wholly
shifted from the Miniitere ta the Poliaincra. Were they
then, when ttaese 'Ovation* lirereieil themselves tin their
consideration, tai have their attention distracted, 41111 tbeil
ditin occupied by disonssions such us they haul had
to4light ? Were they, to be entelnyen iu delibereting Wlnt.
iker they shamed twoperwe air threepence more oi
liss, or whether the Irieh Odder Or the Home Office should
he at Whitehall, or in Cunineetreet, or in sonie.other law
or alley of Westminster, at it toottimit when the interest•
of the people, thesecurity ache monarchy, end, pccbsps,
the future peaee end r,ppose of the whole empire were in.
Volved in the consequence of their deteratinmions T Thew
were a few of the ohjectionst which preiewal ott his mind t.
the course they were thou pluming, end which intitteoi
hint to implore the 'Love to pause beh,re they gave their
'consent to this vote of supply. The question had not litre
yet discolored. it hail been, it was hue, toothed upon oh
%driving evetiog. . It was mingled with neonsiderittioe
of the Civil List—ts very grave (potion—Anal of the 1.; Jar•
rut fitiaticiel arrengements of the ctiuntry—ts kohject quail
Froling ; but the, all..important *potion of tlie etorety
of appointing a 'Regency had been merely raised, pot die_
Posted, tool he trusted that sotto! lion.. Member,' whoa
attention omit' lie owl to.ively tiff weal to ;be subject.
would cold, them, by it ilifeet motion, to tote tire who!,
'Of the groat interests' connected witli• it folly 444 'eutori
iteration, They might, )4! INfetttuA, tat
theta they ‘voultidiseltarge their ,lure, They
fait warning to &lions(' and to the pmelo, 1111,1 th!,
MIA) not lie theire.....ac WPtilti Dear lilt 01
them, if those corniegnefn'Ts Whith ha I,euat lit aald Altai
wards row to poi boar, liver.)
that it.
alas
hers di,1141,11 with avapi et to the estimates now 444
"sAuloa*,:fd 4t411:1 4intl.:hileviYinsll:lll4lte:ll:4:.
(mans sow oilillogne 001 ibis thies6in hoe been Navel
to the 4e,ttnta) lit- was alt terttteltd tr, aura.
vindia at
g' tlae lit a
e:drat reap. It taas <e,letiitted that the Ilgirrsez as 111:Ihti
tic ala I
1115 posed that the
re ‘ni-termy.s

t Itt,y eto be+ iirthlkiit tUreYAIA ? 14reja►c t 9
prefertinA the course tow ttvollouttult4l.
required, hut a Tillie mouths' supply, and he appislienthel
that they would, in the meantime, suspend us nitteli
possible ull the works it Windsor esutle whieh were Illy
.ultject of dispute. Feeling then that it would be
,ible to baduce the House to consider the estimates V?

attention, he toloptett the hinter evil of entitenting po.t
pone them ; and not eoneidering {lintel& pledged to lap.-
port any IMP of them when brought forward, he 'wt.! the
Government anewetable for the expenditure of what
,low voted on loconnt,—(fleet:)
,
Sir It. PEEL waitl that the Learn 1 el 1 Nor

itiveneell two arguments agairot the vitae they wot,

...
iiow imbuing t out:, that by crutienting to glee tbe to, i,
on account they precluded Nrliament front the opi,,,
tunity o conritlering the question of u It, geney ; awl il,,
other founded on the form of the vote. Now the How.

that is, taking the minority' to be concluded by the tttgF
jority,,lnid, in answer' to hie Majesty's twatintuentlati*
for. the despatch of business, declared that they re-*

.

anxious to comply with his wisher. Tide was the vote 'tit rf.3.
Wednesday. , Now when the Him. Gentleman talked:Ml4l
the House comniittiug itself in the. eyes of their c mitite-. tee
anti and the country, he would ask the lien. and Len niel.11;l
Gentleman if, after deviating on Wednesday that they tv,wo re
ready to adopt 'the flours* recotnnuctitleil, they cm El i ley '''..,l
determined to stop the supplies, and go into the questiiiii '"],."i,,
of the Regency, what would be said then? Did he
think that would be u course either etesteietfui tit mho` 04
Clown, or eatiafitetury to the peephi?—(Hear, litter.),;-: • ~1
The House had deter itiurti stet to go into the wiestieti 'C1.;',.?;1
the Regency ; and he del consider it eotimiitted by den; 1..,.i
determination to agree to the vote of that eveninte ~.,
Now with respett to the form of the vote—was it not i* '
better to take the whole sea respired in one t iel;, ~ei,
than to take it on 40 or 60 different *tried esti .e
-q
unites, 411 of which might, lead to. diseuesio, 'On .. sh ect
thereby defeat the object for which the vote : tilt. IA
recommended, namely, the intimellitte deopetch of the int,' eei
sinew of the residua ? The Hoe. and Learned Gentleuiett 'e
had, however, intimated that the sums now taken iitieltt i,-;`.;
be opplitul to othet purposes, and the responeibility et tin ii. ,
Government got rid of. The lion. Member eould not test. ),.'
sensein the House at the time, or he would have helve tii4
front hie Hon. Friend that it wee intereied to ititroduce ; ckee,
elites* in, the Appropriation Act, thruugh which the t lie
veremient would hie bound to opply the money owe ciittil ;!A
in the proportion allotted to each item,' *tut that it wuolii l'';s
nut be in their power to apply to one item the savings bon, fee
another, When ante 4414114' were exhausted, Pet li meet !',....,
must be culled together to grant further sepplie. ;, theme -e
fore the lion. Member had in that a outlicieuteile dee that ''
the rliscuesicutit which he desired vould nut belong delayeiL
j
e
—(llear, hear) t?
',
Lord ALTIILHIP begged it might be distinctly ender - ee;
stood that neither he uur soy of those Member* who lit-; ", I
voted against the address' were responsible ter what, Vet :,;i
itensequeoce might ensue from the Goverinneet pussies .'".e
over at present the moot important business, its like vote" ',e,..,
for money, which some gentlemen said pledged them te eee,
nothing ; it was absurd to say en. The money WOOlOl lii
,„,,,
undoubtedly spent after it was voted, and they would he to
en able to recall their votes. . Ile fur Ong objected tai ne !it',
course which it Wall prelim(' la pursue, and hi, protest ""' I i,.'
L',
against being implicated in whatever convequetteer might e t.
ensue. . i..
itlr. 111./SKISSON agreed with his Hight 800.
Friend, that it would be imemeistent With the "t'' t" ~'','''J
which the House cams on a former occasion , rut to vo v t,[l'
the proposed supply, and he was glad to Lear %he.;
t tint.
oat no intention of Inecluditig 'the House of Omen:roe. i: .:,
from a full examination of bow it was dietweited of. 'lle
wished, however, to say that, cutler tee eireuitistancee S.l
the country, looking to the learlul eutitiegtereitee wt.. t f7'..,:l
might arise, in particular, loukiug et the til(a3o.ll' , it
which the Monarchy would be placed if our of theee Ow
tingencies should revue, if the Perliament were to sop a-
rate without Oinking some provioitmeeewithout adiiettee
some measure against that obtrudes etintingeney, eliettlitteit
incur before the 1'444m1/tit atteill met. Ile' biped r
liLt''elalita-neidtitill.eitilri
lieen,bcis? toulirile, 114 h
14'pic rolteri Lord,
an 14; At leiild i-,b,si:it% . n ';','l
Throne, or votne other memory, take incites to pitied lei - , t,
fore the Monetrell the danger to whittle the country end 'Ai, '''' 7'l
he Mouurcliy would he exposed. lie Was taken cool, el)
e
by surprise when the Arltireee was propoortil-e(littel es
beer)e-the etiiil yet;...-taken ley sorprtie—thottgli et.
knew there were some gentlemen who were aated)..l
with a cheer; and 'never required any other eutlitnit) el
fur their votes than the dictate of the Treeeury, slat
whO could never be taken by surprise ; but he wee. ',.r...,1
mid after having •sisee investigated thu stileitt4e le Liii
far aa his time would *How, be did think that it trei
was imperative On Parlianieut to take these i Rennet. ‘,
, '.,
Mitt (pesthole into enterideretiou. , 'rhe House mutt !as l )
it,. shore of the consequences should any danger acerikte
the public 'office before those questions email!). briinglit 0.,,,,,
under discuselon in October. Tbe people, tee, lie belielfit i, 7,1
would he token by surprise, With respect Iti, the forte-
the vete, he • believitl it wits net mend to teke a vt4,,,,,i
credit ter the whole setts:Us wished to know et ifjv,i e
branclues of the pithier service the 1,100,0001.. riMl''..i,./ . t
what lw"Paiti""tt it war to he tillwnlnlattah Ihn kg"
that a clause of the Appropriotion Act would specify
~, .:,,,
but that slaws moil ginattemati would be utisequelitted
~
with, and wit' had arrived at a period orate session *lb 1,
all the estimates ought to have been voted coil eppliee
He littil 'sat iii that House for thirty-six years. and lie rigs,, , ri
rememliered beano. being so much delayed. He i.litienbe -,
to the Hon. Member for Dometshire, who hid set tit*, ::'.'
House luttger than lie hail, if lit ever remembered the 104 `. jii
nets being so•ltinnit ill create La at present, This lie at- c
nibuted to the want of leleure and authority in the hii l
nittisters, and to the suomalues course they had porsta.4.‘,
The Hon Member for Altitiklutt, said that Wit might Ain- 1,5.
cuss the estimate* in October, but lie was 4freid 'the
when that time tumor, _that there would lie 40 1040 y Mete *
impornow qtsestititio ,for discussion, that it wntitil net to
found feasible to diet:twill 'ileteits. Ile would; agitin remind
the Iloiles that they were now attics to Approptiate whit
hail not been apparel for in a Committee ut Supply.
Sir It. PEEL would be very shut if there were any WI -
thority belonging to the Miuletere to proem. 4 refractor) 41
House of Commons to side with them. Dug it was wit ,i'
possible for Ministers to tell Members that they sliouht ant t;
bring forwent motions, and give moiety of illt)tiirilb ; lit
Alembers would do as they pleased, and he was salid dee 0
he Should not. again see is tractable Homes of Cunatwito. ',
When hie night Hun, Friend coutpleineil of the delay o
busitieva, Ito might, pedalos, {eau acct that he boas in the ‘,
Ministry, when the Army Estimates word debated fur tart-
,.een nights, iv
Mr. HUSK ISSON explaitiell. i,
'
Sir IL V YVYAN approved oh the Mittietere yet e'
e..
bringing forweiti at present the question of the Regent''ii
4 the same tints lie did not approve of their mewl, 0,,
~.,•1
anti was not disposed to piece ally contitlence in them. "
Sir it. PHI% said, the lion. iletmtet lied requeutei
that lie would repeat the statement which lie lied lead, ail
in an early pert of the Btatioas that the English Geeeei.
went were nut in any way conneeted with the eppoiteee e
el the Prince de l'olignau at tire heed of the Alittieety ii I
Police. It racily 'rooted twereelly net...mete to eepret it.,
detihil of ail tovettion so alutecil, vi 441 the Covelltinel, re
of this elittiitty would atletapt tai (hue IS Violator tiVoi,
mutt a country us Franco ; but, tie it might prevelit tie
runtititiattett. tof any delusion au Site subject, he hilt! 1,0
hesitation in 4hdog so.
Sir R. Veeeyale flint Sit 11. ,as. tlttittadly oplahled.
Mr. IL GRANX, although be agreed with the Right
Finn. Baronet, thet,..the passel WAS itch a tit opportunity
for enteral into the queetion of, the Regency, entirety con-
curred with the Hon. end Lint ned Alernher for .Ittotrie
borough, aim It was a tiestion which sought not Itt tie It( '
unsettled. It wit* mid salt it ought not to ha' enitettel it
1 a tunitattety. Parliament; tot, if ditty deferred it, and ally
titat)itUtier ACCidokit, 011014111 0411 kt. it Weald In agitatcd 'i
a hilliatlieitt ielditi more tuukteltnotts than the oriei et
Being of opitiiiirt, with' the Hui. mei I.44teril Itivinher (~1
ilitterrebol%.o4ll, thSl the 4104160 U had certainly tint I.
~viiteri the grsyu eoleittret Anise whidi Was doe tit it, 1,0
gec
e . outie• that cubic it weir• taker up by better...l.l,oeles
tie would on Alottriey move nor Addeo)+, to this Clo Wit au
the subject.—(ilear,,lieate,)
ini::virirlitTilligllit<llll4itiliris ;lit' i Yilitkait' htio"abuglig°eletili'liligt ett.i4'4ll(lol II:
taken up in !such is ettlitatt's At flirt') was other linsicon,
howpvt,t,, this; fitr.Mentley, he begged ilk Ittiilo%lWild this
tbs,, (leatteenaa,te ,talte 'Cowley for his atotion,
in kiss
I:ll.o;it'':(s7:4ieNrtw''‘aNil:ltil'aillg;e:ll,4:ll:ll;titivt 6stlvi:eid;wrvie4:;t:ll;:ahlitualtu:ti:::;;;;;Yi;
wits fixed ter the'paptiese . ',
their trinletolt
ten, lc WILSON role to etprres it Lupe that tie! I l'h
mill Lem inel Gentlemen otipotlite would proee..l lei! '
preterit fi,editit st ith the 11411141itUtIllt tar' Libel Retird ti ,1 '
It it.a ant likely that it woulitioteiosiou inuelt 41'1434"'1''
'outs it Wit", U 1,104 118{4111 and ileeirable 'newest-v.
The ATTOIINEV,OLNEHAI, 'wealthd tedeavotir b
tarry tits Bill Ilivnugh, but could nut gife soy pleitee me I
ti e .ul.ive.t.
Loll Monrrrit, Mr. Hume, sell Mr, Lt`''''''' i
eireseell the preecerling with the II IL
Mr, H. GRATTAN, Mr. 'EWAN?, and Mr, O.Co p t; i
'PM."' Ist, il 010 ti.*Vl4l,l* liilahtr, 00011 the i., oi,'v ~r It:L.,
vel'e laboutilig, amid suggi,e/el CR' 4: p <ii.ivy A . +.l, 6'
ine,liate relief. ! , 4 tee
The aceoliitimi W A`i ti.tql 3 .; 4-.1 ate, AA Wt. 4-r,
.-"*.....-am