The Sun.
London, England, 1863-02-18 00:00:00

their minds was to be rejected. Its criminal jurisdiction
was most anomalous. For instance, it was made a crime
for any one not to observe the fasts of Lent, while har.
dened criminals, the perpetrators as it might be of half a
dozen murders, instead of receiving the punishment due
to their crimes, as in other countries, were permitted to
live on as hopeful subjects for reformation. Nothing in
Europe sk as more unenlightened than the administration '
of criminal justice by the Papal Government, and it was
quite impossible that that Government could be assimi
fated to the Government of other countries. A popula-
tion desirous of being united to another Government was
kept down by the French troops, and most certainly it was
not a politic action so to keep them down. The Roman
people desired to join themselves to another government,
there was nothing they desired so much ; and as soon as
the French people were of opinion that justice had not been
done to the Italians, he believed that the Emperor, as he
was the last to adopt the policy of occupation, would be the
first to give effect to the views of his people. Why it was
that the Pope spoke to Mr. Odo Russell about taking re •
fuge on British territory, he could not say; but certain it
was that in July last he did send for him, and spoke to him
at great length upon the state of Europe. He referred to
the progress made by Garibaldi, and he then pointedly
asked him whether, if he took refuge on British territory,
he would be sure of a welcome. The noble marquis thought
it great presumption in him that he gave an answer to that
question ; but it seemed to him that. taking into account
the character of the Pope, and the fact that he felt bound,
by the dictates of conscience, not to accede to the reforms
which had been called for, it certainly was not wrong to
offer the Pope a safe asylum; and, although the Pope
had declined to accept that asylum at that moment, he
nevertheless expressed his grateful acknowledgments for
the offer which had been made to him. In conclusion he
would only observe that he felt convinced it would be both
for the advantage of Italy and of Rome itself if Rome were
declared the capital of the Italian Kingdom. (Cheers.)
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH believed that no prac-
tical advantage could accrue from recurring to events
thirteen or fourteen years back. (Loud cries of Hear, hear.)
He must, however, express the great gratification which he
felt at observing the conduct of the really Italian adminis-
tration recently appointed by the King of Italy, in de-
clining at the present moment to enter into any nego-
tiation respecting the Roman question. (Hear, hear.)
In adopting that policy they had acted with a true sense
of the dignity of the country they represent; and, almost
for the first time, they had shown that thorough inde-
pendence of conduct upon which Italy must depend for
the respect and consideration of other nations. (Hear, hear.)
It had been asserted in the French Chambers recently that
at Turin men no longer talked of Rome. But though they
did not talk of Rome they thought of Rome. (Hear, hear.)
And instead of endeavouring by negotiations with the Em-
peror of the French to accomplish their objects, let the Ita-
lians trust for the present to giving their country a good
government and making it strong in arms. Those objects
attained, it would be impossible for the whole of Europe
not to combine for the accomplishment of the grand object
which Italy had before it. (Hear, hear.) The French Em-
peror was too sagacious, too able a man not to feel that he
must yet consummate the great work which he had com-
menced. By the establishment in the south of a great con-
stitutional kingdom he would be conducing more than by
any other means to the future tranquillity of the European
continent. (Hear, hear.) At the same time they must not
forget that it was of the highest importance, not only to
every Catholic Government, but to every Government
which ruled over Catholic subjects, that the Pope should
be restored to a real independence. That ought to be a
universal object. The time must come when the occupa-
tion of Rome by French troops must cease. It was con-
trary to the interests of France and to the interests of Eu-
rope. And that which might now for a time be postponed
on account of what was termed the Catholic feeling of
France, would ultimately be called for by the universal
feeling of the Catholics throughout the world. He looked
forward to the time when the Pope, restored to a real inde-
pendence, might exercise his authority in the Vatican,
while the Parliament of free Italy conducted its delibera•
tions in the Capitol. (Loud cheers.)
After some observations from the Marquis of NOR-
MANBY, in reply,
The discussion ceased.
THE TICKET-OF-LEAVE SYSTEM.

Earl DUDLEY gave notice of a question on this subject
for Thursday next.
Their lordships then adjourned.

HOITSE OF COMMONS—Last Evening.
The SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock.
NEW MEMBER—DEVONFORT.

Mr.W. B. FERRAND took the oaths and his seat for De-
vouport. The hon. member was introduced by Lord John
Manners and General Peel. The hon. member was re•
ceived with loud cheers from the Opposition.