The Sun.
London, England, 1837-06-16 00:00:00

they were to pursue the course already adopted ? Another
question that he had to ask—and it was one of Vtlry great
importance—it was to ask of thb Noble Viscount at the
head of his Majesty's tiovernment whether he had at-
tempted, and +.\'hether he had effected, putting a stop to
that which the Noble Viscount had himself deelm-ed in his
Place in rdriiament were the entiguitiafty proceedings, and
tli extraordinary rondo hi which the war had been carried
on ? Had the Noble Viscount, in pursuance of that de-
tertnination, sent out British officers or a diplomatic agent,
with the view of establishing, and seeing actually carried
into effect in the Basque provinces, that which was called
the Elliot Convention ? Had that attempt been made ?
If it had, bad it been carried into effect ? If so, then he
was most grateful to the Noble Viscount—he should be de-
lighted to hear it. If he had done so, the Durango de-
cree must naturally fall to the ground in consequence.
If it had been done, they would not so lately have had
so many instances of bloodshed and massacre committed
by those, who, under the guise of Spaniards, committed
them with English arms and English muskets. He had
to observe, that if an enlightened statesman or an en-
lightened general in the course of a campaign made a
mistake in his march, or that the object desired (lid
not turn out according to his wish, then a prudent ge-
neral or an enlightened statesman would, without diffi-
culty, make a retrograde motion, and recover the ground
that he had lost. But it was left to the Noble Viscount
obstinately, pertinaciously, and in a bigoted manner, to ad-
here to the line he bad first taken with respect to the em-
ployment of British troops in the service ; so that no
representations made to him, no feeling exhibited out of ,
doors, no representations made to him by his ally, he meant
the King of the French—nothing could arrest the Noble
Viscount in the reckless career he had once resolved upon
pursuing. The Noble Viscount had differed with him upon
a former occasion as to what would be the probable ter-
mination of the war. He would say to the Noble
Viscount, that success in this, as in any thing else, might
be considered to justify the course adopted. The Noble
Viscount would find that he had not that to maintain him
in his present position. He had put upon paper what had
been the situation of Don Carlos at the close of the last
Session, and the information he was now about giving be
had obtained from various sources. He had put together
the state of the forces last year, and at present. In 1835,
for he thought it fairer to take the former period, " the
Christinos had, including militia, natives amounting to
275,000 men contending against the Carlists, besides three
foreign legions, viz., British, 10.000 ; French, 6,000 ; and
Portuguese, 5,000 ; independent of naval forces." That
was the state of the Queen's forces at that time. They
had three places in the Basque provinces ; they had, too,
the British Legion, and they had the British fleet on their
flank ; and yet from that time to the present the war had
been sustained by Don Carlos ; and he had, notwithstand-
ing all the opposition made to him, sustained himself against
the whale of the Queen's forces united together.--(Hear.)

" At the end of 1835 the Carlist forces were—infantry in
Navarre, 11,300 ; Alaya, 5,500 ; Guipuscoa, 5,050 ; Biscay,
6,750 ; and Castilians, operating in the above provinces,
5,350. Also cavalry, 1,300 ; and artillery, 350.—Total,
35,600 regulars, besides 10,000 armed peasants.
" In Catalonia there were then in the various districts, but
badly armed, 22,000 ; in Arragon, under Cabrera, 5,000 ;
and under Quilez, 4,000 ; in Valencia, La Mancha, Toledo,
in flying columns, 6,500 ; in Galicia, under Lopez, 3,000 ;
in Castile, Rioja, Estremadura, Andalusia, and various parts
of the kingdom, in small bands, 6,ooo.—Total, 56,500.
" The Carlist forces may be now stated thus :
In the Basque provinces and Navarre, for their de-
fence, and including armed peasants
Under the Infante, gone to Catalonia 12,000
In Catalonia, well armed, under various leaders, and
organized, 23 battalions, say 20,000
In Valencia, under Cabrera, Serrador, and other
leaders 16,000
In Lower Arragon, now chiefly with the Infante's
expedition
In various parts of the kingdom, in small bands 6OOO

Total 99,000"

Was it wise, then, was it expedient, in his Majesty's Go-
vernment pursuimg a course which could only lead to the
sufferings of their unhappy countrymen, without affording
the smallest chance of a successful issue to the war ? The
Noble Viscount told him on February the 12th, " I have
every hope that a speedy and happy termination will be put
to the Spanish contest, through the means now in opera-
tion. There is a prospect of this result, from the conduct
pursued by the present Government of Spain. There is
no one, my Lords, so incurable as a prophet ; the spirit of
prediction is a most obstinate disease. I do not know
whether the Noble Marquis has any adequate reason
for declaring our prediction will be falsified, but I have
every reason to believe what I have said will turn out
to be the fact—and what was the fact ?" The Noble
Lord, too, at the head of the Admiralty, said to him
this also :—" I shall only add, that I speak from informa-
tion shich I have derived from authorities in Spain, and
probably from less public sources than those on which the
Noble Marquis relies. From these I arrive at the conclu-
sion, that General Evans is likely to pursue that successful
course which he has hitherto done." Now, such were
the predictions that had been uttered, and they saw that
they had been most unsuccessful ; but upon the grounds he
had stated he wished the country to be informed—" Whe-
ther any instructions or authority have been sent to Col.
Wylde, British Commissioner in the North of Spain, to aid
the formation of any new British Auxiliary Legion, or to
lend his exertions to induce British soldiers to enter the ser-
vice of the Queen of Spain ?"—" Whether any further
communications have been received from the Spanish Go-
vernment relating to their efforts to arrest the sanguinary
system of the warfare." If the information that he wished
for were received, then, on a future occasion, he should
wish it to be laid before the House ; or, if it were con-
tended that no information should be afforded, or that no
authority had been given to Colonel Wylde, then it would
be satisfactory to hear at last, and he hoped they would do
so, that tke means had, been taken for preventing that
which they must all lament, the continued effusion of blood,
and to the effecting of the war being carried on in a more
civilised and satisfactory manner. These were the two
points upon which he should press for information on his
Majesty's Government ; but it would be also desirable
to
know—and he was afraid that he could not obtain it
from the Noble Viscount—whether or not his Majesty's
Government had been made acquainted by their great ally,
the King of the French, that it was his Majesty's deter-
mination to limit his interference in the cause of
Spain, strictly to the stipulations of the Quadruple
Alliance. He wished to know whether or not the Noble
Viscount had received that declaration since the last Ses-
sion ?—(Hear, hear ) He wished also to call the Noble
Viscount's attention to expressions Which had fallen from
the King of the French, and in which he expressed his
reluctance that the soldiers of that nation should march
under any other colours than their own to any war in
which it was proposed to them to be engaged. He asked
whether these expressions did not mean more than met
the eye ? Could the Noble Viscount attach these ex
pressions to the British marines Or the British soldiers?
—(Hear, hear.) But it was come to this, when they saw
British soldiers march with the Spanish cockade and wear
at the same time the English uniform. Those were the
questions he wished to ask.

Viscount MELBOURNE observed that with respect
to what would be the policy pursued, the renewing
the Order in Council, he apprehended, was a sufficient
answer to that question—(Cheers)—at the same time
he begged leave to say that the renewal of the Order
in Council, whatever might be thought by all who were
originally opposed to it, was not precisely the same
thing to be considered as if it were now for the first
time made. Their Lordships were aware that it was
not very easy to depart from a line of policy when once
adopted ; that such a course would be attended with
very great inconveniences ; and that by having induced
men to enter into a particular service by exempting them
from the penalties of an Act of Parliament, and yet when
those persons felt themselves hound to the same service by
feeling, by honour, or by interest, then, perhaps, by renew-
ing the same severe penalties from which they had been
exempted, to render it difficult for thom to continue in that
service, thus to compel them to withdraw from that ser-
vice, could hardly be justifiable in a government which
would make them liable to an Act of Parliament which
they had themselves exempted those persons from ;
and he must add, too, it would hardly be justifiable
to the Spanish Government to have given to all Eu-
rope so marked an abandonment of its cause at such a
moment ; and he felt, also, that such a course could
not be consistent either with the engagements entered
into or with the honour of his Majesty's Government,
or the good faith of this country..—( Hear, hear, and
cheers.) He thought it might have well been objected to
—the original issuing of the order in council ; but still he
thought it must be felt to be by no means the same ques-
tion, the renewing the order in council, and, in fact, liable
to great objection not to have pursued that course. If it
had not been done it would have been a blow inflicted upon
the Spanish cause, and it would be a desertion and abandon-
ment of the engagement into which they had entered.—
(Hear, hear.) If the Noble Lord had informed him of any
particular dispatch with respect to which, or for which, he
intended to call, then he should have made it undoubtedly
his business to inform himself more distinctly as to its exist-
mice. The 'Noble Lord had said that he probably would
not answer him upon a particular point upon which he made
inquiry—whether there was or not a distinct intimation from
the King of the French of his confining himself to the Qua-
druple Treaty ? Not only now, but at all other times, they
never had any other intimation from the King of the French
than that. it was strictly and truly his intention to execute
that treaty, and to confine himself to the letter of that treaty ;
and he bogged also explicitly to tell to the Noble Lord that
all they ever required from the government of the King of

the Frencli was that they would execute that treaty.—
(Cheers.) But there was one matter upon which he could
give to the Noble Lord the most satisfactory and explicit
answer, and that was, that the Government of the King of
the French had most distinctly disavowed the interprete-
lion of the terms and the expressions put into the speech
of the King of the French—it was not their intention, and,
furthermore, it did not enter into their imagination, to cast
any imputation, to utter any reproach, or to throw any
blame on the Government of England by the expressions
which they had advised the King to use and to employ
upon that occasion. The Noble Lord had said that
there was a pertinacity in adhering to the course they were
pursuing, that there was obstinacy in it, and that there
was a violent and bigotted attachment to the system that.
they had adopted ; while he must say, notwithstanding the
difficulties that were to be encountered, and the dangers to
which they might be exposed, what they adhered to with
tenacity, and what they always had adhered to, and what
he hoped they would adhere to, was the execution and
fulfilment of the treaties entered into by this country.—
( Hear, hear.) That was the obstinacy—that was the
pertinacity--displayed upon this occasion, and no other—
(Loud cheers.) The Noble Lord said that he denied the
accuracy of his statement on a former occasion. He did
not recollect the particular statement to which the
Noble Lord referred ; but all he did upon a former oc-
cesion was to hope that the result would be different from
that which the Noble Lord declared it would be ; and
he took the liberty, in the same way, in differing with the
Noble Lord in his expectations of the result of the war
upon the present occasion as he had upon a former.—
( Hear.) With respect to the specific question which had
been moved by the Noble Lord, he would say that it was
very well known that the Order in Council suspended the
operation of the Foreign Enlistment Act, and permitted
persons to engage during the period of another year. He
begged to say that Colonel Wylde had no specific instruc-
tions as to the reconstruction of the Legion. What he had
done he did on his own responsibility, and his Majesty had
approved his conduct on that occasion. Ho was not aware
whether there were any specific dispatches relating to that
subject on which their Lordships were all so deeply inte-
rested, namely,-the attempts which had been made to miti-
gate the sanguinary character of the war in Spain ; but he
could confidently say that every possible exertion had been
used by the persons in the employ of the British Govern-
ment, and more particularly by his. Majesty's Minister at
Madrid, to induce a more humane mode of carrying on the
war.—( Hear.) He thought, however, that the Noble Lerd
took much too partial a view of one side when he supposed
that the Durango decree would have 'been abandoned as a
matter of course, if the forbearance he had spoken of
had been practised by the other side. He begged to say
that there never had been the slightest appearance of any
disposition on the part of Don Carlos to withdraw that de-
cree, or to relax its severity—( Hear, hear)—on the contrary,
it was acted upon in the most sanguinary and merciless
spirit whenever the opportunity presented itself.—(Hear.)
He begged further to remark, that there was a great diffe-
rence between the barbarities committed under the Durango
decree and any barbarities which might have disgraced the
Queen's troops, because they were contrary to the wish of
the Government. They were against its will and orders,
and were the result of the violence and ferocity of the ge-
nerals and troops themselves ; but the barbarities under
the decree were the act of the Government—they were the
act of that man who called himself King of Sdain.,—(Hear.)
He would make inquiry to ascertain whether there wee
such papers as the Noble Marquis had described ; he could
not say distinctly that there were or that there were not ;
but speaking for the Governmenr, he could pledge himself
that every possible effort had been made to produce that
result so strongly felt by their Lordships to be in the
highest degree desirable.—(Cheers.)
The Duke of WELLINGTON said, when his Ma-
jesty's subjects entered the service of a foreign power, they
enlisted, he concluded, under certain engagements on the
part of that power, and on certain terms in favour of those
individuals, whether officers or soldiers. Now, lie wished
to' ask the Noble Viscount, as a Minister of the Crown,
was it desirable that the agent of his Majesty's Government
—(Hear)—with the Spanish authorities acting on that
frontier—was it prudent that that officer should have in-
terfered in the arrangements and engagements that were
made, and that he should, as far as his conduct went—he
would not put it higher than that—have given those indi-
viduals reason to believe that the arrangements and engage-
ments entered into were sanctioned or guaranteed by his
Majesty's Government?—(Hear, hear.) If the officer in
question had taken on himself conduct of that description
without the command or instruction of his Majesty's Go-
vernment, he must say it appeared to him that he had
done that which he ought not to have done.—(Hear.)
He was an officer employed at the head-quarters of one
of the Spanish armies for the purpose of sending intel-
ligence to his Majesty's Government of the course of
proceedings there.—(Hear.) It was quite right that he
shOuld give that intelligence ; it was quite right that he
should be on the best terms with all those by whom the
proceedings were regulated ; but for him to interfere be-
tween his Majesty's subjects and the foreign power—for
him to assist in forming a Spanish Legion, or in making
any new arrangements for the continuance of the services
of his Majesty's subjects.in Spain—was for him to do that
which might expose the Government to be called on by the
individuals forming that force to make good the engage-
ments entered into with them by the Spanish Government.
He hoped that the officer to whom he referred had not
taken such course ; if he had, the Noble Viscount would
hear of it hereafter.—(Hear.)
The Earl of CAItNARVON trusted he perceived in
what had fallen from the Noble Viscount on this subject
some words of lurking repentance.—(Opposition cheers.)
The Noble Viscount had said that it would be inconsistent
with their former policy, and would inflict a serious injury
on the Queen's cause, if this Government had refused to
renew the Order in Council ; but he must confess he could
not see in the conduct of the Spanish Government towards
the British Legion much to entitle it to the particu-
lar consideration of this country. He believed that in many
instances the Spanish Generals had exceeded the in-
structions of the Spanish Government ; but the instructions
of that Government had been to carry terror into the pro-
vinces by the most unsparing exaction of the last penalty
of the law. What had been the opinion expressed in the
speech of the King of the French with regard to the ques-
tion of interference in the affairs of Spain ? That speech
said, " If the interests of France require it, the sons of
France shall march to battle, but only under the glorious
banners of their native country." Allusion had been made
to the slaughter at Irun ; that slaughter was perpetrated,
not exactly in cold blood, but after the victory was really
won. This was a new mode to Englishmen of conducting
war, and he hoped it would not be repeated. He did not
think a Christian country justified in smiling out its
children to shed the blood of their fellow-creatures when
they had no just cause of quarrel with them.—(Loud cries
of " Hear, hear.") The body of Englishmen in arms in
Spain had experienced greater reverses than the English in
arms had suffered for a long time before. lie would con-
tend that by these reverses the interests of their country
suffered severely. The glory which our arms acquired
soma years ago in Spain had been seriously impaired by the
interference. There had been a violation of a sound prin-
ciple, unredeemed by that success which might, which
would, have dazzled opinion ; though, in his judgment,
success even would have been a poor compensation for so
great a departure from sound policy. in the beginning of
the war, his Majesty's Ministers declared that they had no
intention of interfering in the settlement of any of the great
questions at issue. Our assistance was limited by the
treaty, and by the additional articles to a naval co-opera-
tion, which at that time all knew meant only a blockade.
Then the Legion was sent out ; and soon after his Ma-
jesty's Marines were sent to support the Legion —(Oppo-
sit ion cheers.) It was impossible to exaggerate the impor-
tance, in questions of foreign policy, of holding consistent
language. The Noble Lord then proceeded to describe
the sacrifices and the sufferings of the Basque people,
which he attributed to the uncertain policy of the Govern- .
went. His Lordship's delivery became so affected while
addressing the House on this subject, that we could not
understand what he said. At last he suddenly paused ;
and having kept the House waiting for several seconds, ad-
mitted in a hurried manner that he was unable to proceed.
A Noble Lord behind him suggested to him to resume
his se-it, which, however, he declined doing. Having
refreshed himself with a little water, he continued. He said
he would call on his Majesty's Ministers to take care that
they did not incur the risk of a general war—they might
provoke the forbearance which had been observed towards
them too far. And for what purpose would they incur such
a risk ? The state of things in Spain was anything but satis-
fictory. The Constitution of Spain exhibited, at best, very
little practical wisdom. The treaty entered into might turn
out exceedingly unfortunate. It was impossible for any man
to determine whether his Majesty's Ministers might not have
involved themselves and every succeeding Administration in
difficulties, the extent of which could not be ascertained.
Suppose this civil war were to continue fur ten or fifteen
years, would the people of this country consent to provide
the money—would they bear the burden, year after year, of
having to furnish such large sums, voted in furtherance of a
murderous contest, which brought nothing but dishonour
on the country—in furtherance of a murderous contest, in
which they had no personal interest ? He most sincerely
trusted that the Government would confine our interfe-
rence in the affairs of Spain to the narrowest possible limits.
The Earl of MI NTO had risen merely for the purpose
of saying a few words upon the ungenerous accusations—
(Cheers)—which had been cast upon those brave men who
under the conduct,of General Evans, had not only showed
boldness and courage, but had, at the same time, exhibited
a degree of foiLearance—(Hear, hear)—and humanity of
which—and he would appeal to the Noble Duke, whose