The Sun.
London, England, 1837-02-07 00:00:00

given by him in respect to Poor Laws. The returns sought
for by the Honourable Gentleman had been made, and he
(Mr. Harvey) wished to know precisely what course would
be pursued by the Honourable Member.--( Hear.)
Mr. WALTER said that it was his intention to
move for a Committee of Inquiry ; and now, while
he was on the subject, perhaps the Noble Lord, the
Secretary for the Home Department, would do him
the favour (considering the thousands of persons who
had petitioned for an alteration in the law) of stating whe-
ther he would afford him any facility of bringing on his mo-
tion on the day he had fixed ; and he would be further gra-
tified if the Noble Lord would assent to his motion.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that in regard to the question
of the Hon. Gentleman, whether he would afford him any
facilities i❑ bringing on his motion at the period fixed by
him, he would say that he could not state whether he could
do so, and he could not see why any particular day had
been fixed.—(Hear.) In regard to the motion itself, he
(Lord J. Russell) felt himself quite in the dark as to the
motive of the Hon. Member in introducing it, and he would
only say, therefore, that he could not afford him any faci-
lity as to fixing a day for the motion, nor could he say that
he would be ready to debate the question.—(Hear.)
PILOTAGE.

Mr. G. F. YOUNG begged to ask the Hon. Gentleman
opposite whether it was his intention to bring in any
measure grounded on the report of the Committee on
Pilotage ?
Mr. P. THOMSON replied in so low a tone of voice
that he could not be distinctly heard: We understood
him, however, to say, that when the reports were made he
would then be able to answer the question.
TIMBER. DUTIES.

Mr. HUME wished to ask the Right Honourable
Gentleman if it was his intention to bring in a Bill to alter
the timber duties ?—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. P. THOMSON said that the question depended
so much upon circumstances of policy and the state of the
revenue, that he could not now answer the question.
REGISTRATION OF MARRIAGES BILL.
The House then went into Committee on this Bill.
Mr. O'CONNELL wished to know, whether in
considering this Bill, an opportunity would be given to cor-
rect what was erroneous in the last measure. He hoped
it would be so framed as that such amendments could be
made. According to the provisions of the Bill of last ses-
sion, no chapel could be registered unless as a separate
building. Now that was inconvenient, for there were many
chapels which existed in connection with other buildings.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that there would be an
opportunity afforded at a future period of introducing any
amendments that might be agreed to by the House.
Mr. WILKS hoped that the Bill would be postponed
for a month, in order that full opportunity might be afforded
for introducing improvements.
Mr. BAINES said he wished to say a few words with
regard to one point relating to the reading of notices be-
fore the Guardians of the Poor. That part of the measure
was generally conceived by the Dissenters to be derogatory
and insulting, and he was sure that it was not the wish of
any branch of the Legislature to accumulate insult on the
heads of those whom the Bill originally intended to re-
lieve.—(Hear.) There was another point to which he
begged to call the attention of the House, and he hoped
they would not fail to take it into consideration. It was
that part of the Registration Bill by which the Guardians
of the Poor were to be made the superintendent registrars
of births, marriages, and deaths. This was an exceedingly
objectionable part of the Bill.—(Hear.) It was the
seventh clause, and if any arrangement could be made
to obviate this objection, he thought it would be very ac-
ceptable to those on whose behalf it was intended that the
Bill should operate beneficially.--(Hear, hear.) He was
sure his Hon. Friend the Member for Boston (Mr. Wilks)
would be disposed to give every attention to these
points, and that his Majesty's Government would be disposed
to co-operate in any measure that tended to give to those
who were interested the full effect of the relief sought.
—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. WILKS admitted that the first point adverted
to by his Honourable Friend was a monstrous evil on
the part of the Dissenters of this country, and one
to which every Member who took an interest in
behalf of the Dissenting body, was bound to give every at-
tention in his power. As to the other point, he was not
prepared at that moment to pledge himself, but he would
give it every attention.
The Bill was then reported, with the amendments ; and
the House resumed.
PRIVILEGES OF THE HOUSE.
Mr. BERNAL presented a petition from Messrs.
Hansard, printers to the House of Commons, stating that
an action for libel had been commenced against them for pub-
lishing a report of the proceedings of the House, and praying
that the• matter might be referred to a Committee Pri-
vileges. He moved that the petition be read.
The petition was then read by the Clerk, which stated
that in 1828 the petitioners had been appointed, and
had since continued to be printers to the House ; that
they had printed a Report of the Commissioners for
inquiring into the state of prisons, wherein it was stated that
many of the prisoners had been found reading obscene works,
printed by J. J. Stockdalc ; that Stockd ale had subsequently
commenced an action for libel in the King's Bench against
them ; and had estimated his damages first at 1,0001., but
had subsequently encreased them to the enormous sum
of 20 000/.—(Hear, hear, hear.)—That the case stood
for trial on Tuesday, the 7th of February next ; and that
the petitioners had directed their solicitor to take the ne-
cessary steps to defend such action. The petitioners then
stated that they had, under the advice of an eminent
special pleader, as a bar to such action, pleaded that they
were printers to the House of Commons, and had therefore
printed the Report under the sanction and authority of the
House. They therefore prayed that the matter might be
referred to the Committee of Privileges.
The SPEAKER:made some observations, but from the
low tone of voice in which the Right Hon. Gentleman
spoke, and the noise prevailing in the House, we found it
impossible to catch a single connected sentence.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL, as counsel in the
case, begged leave to make one remark, and he promised
that he should abstain from all allusion to the merits of the
case.—s( Hear, hear.) He wished it to he distinctly under-
stood that in the order made by the Learned Judge
no disrespect was meant to the House--inasmuch as
the plea of the general issue would try the merits of the
question without bringing the privileges of that House be-
fore the Court.
Mr. O'CONNELL—The Learned Gentleman had,
in his opinion, taken a most inconvenient course. If that
plea had been left upon the record, then the question
would be decided at once by. demurrer, and without the
expense of a trial, and it only showed how inconvenient
that plea of general issue was, in which all manner of things
might be pleaded. The defendant admitted that he had pub.
lished the work by the authority of that House, and if that
plea had been left upon the record, the judge would have
decided the question at once. Now they were .to have a
trial, not to ascertain facts, but to ascertain whether those
facts amounted, if true, to a defence.—(Hear, hear.)
He thought it would be wrong to order a man to print cer-
tain papers, and afterwards leave him without protection. The
sooner this matter was set at rest the better, and he
knew no way of effectually putting an end to it
but by altering the law relating to it.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. ;WYNN thought if the House licensed the sale
that it would be a publication by authority ; but there might
be sonic doubt as to the fact of such license. He did not
believe that a new law was necessary on the subject, and
he doubted the expediency of legislating upon it. It
would, however, have the effect of making the House exer-
cise a more jealous controul over the papers published re-
specting its proceedings. Not longer since than the close
of the last session, he (Mr. W.) saw in a report, charges of
the most scandalous nature against Lord Chief Justice Den-
man. The House would not suffer the petition to lie on the
table, unless some Member gave notice of his intention to
theti matterdge an
take such a course as wouldiines affordit._Har(theels As
Learned
aot" presentortunity sotfooed it waslearing h a
gross reflection upon the Judge
standing upon their journals, and if no other Member
took such a course, he would pursue that which had been
followed in other instances, and move that it be_expunged
from the Journals of the House.
Mr. C. FERGUSSON thought
the
matter
might easily
be settled, by the defendant making application to the
Court for leave to withdraw the plea of the general issue,
and for leave to plead a special justification. . He had no
doubt that such an application would meet with success.
Sir R. PEEL hoped that the House would take no
.step which would interfere with the regular course of jus-
tice. He apprehended that under the plea of tile general
issue, the defendant might give evidence of his having
acted under the authority of the House. In his opinion,
it would be better for them to postpone the matter
until the decision of the , Court of King's Bench had
been given, because the House were at perfect liberty
at tiny time to take such steps as they pleased to %indicate
their privileges.—(Hear, hear.) He would therefore sug-
gest that the Hon. Member who had presented the petition
should move that the debate be adjourned until after the
question had been settled in the court.
Sir W. FOLLETT could not but think that many of
the observations of his Learned Friend opposite were to-
tally without foundation. The Learned Judge had no
discretion, but was bound to remove the plea from the
record, on the ground that Mr. Hansard had not thought
fit to stand upon the defence, that he had printed
these papers by the authority of the Home. He had taken
upon himself to show that the allegations in the paper were
proved, added to which, he had allowed the general
issue to be pleaded. It was therefore. imperative on
the Learned Judge to remove the plea from the record.
Had Mr. Hansard stood upon the defence that he had