The Sun.
London, England, 1863-06-12 00:00:00

PRIVATE BUSINESS.

Tb e Mayo (county) Grand Jury Cess, and Stonrbridge
Rai) way Bills were read a second time.
THIRD READINGS.

The Southampton and Netley Railway—Elsecar, Went-
worth, and Hayland Gas (amendments)—and the London
and South Western Railway (amendment) bills were read
a third time and passed.
CASE OF SERGEANT LILLEY,

The Earl of SHAFTESBURY gave notice that on
Monday next he should ask her Majesty's Secretary of
State for War whether it was the intention of the Govern-
ment to institute any turther inquiry into the conduct of
Lieut.-Colonel Crawley.
VACCINATION (IRELAND) BILL.

The report of amendments to this bill was brought up
and received.

BAKEHOUSES REGULATION BILL.

On the motion of Lord TANLEY of ALDERLEY, this bill
was read a third time and passed.

POLAND.

The Earl of CARNARVON asked whether the Secre-
tary of State for Foreign Affairs could add any further in-
formation respecting the nature and provisions of the recent
eonvention concluded between the Governments of Russia
and Prussia beyond that contained in the correspondence
respecting the insurrection in Poland already laid before
Parliament. He did not put the question with any desire
to embarrass the Government, but as he felt the greatest
sympathy with Poland, he was anxious to possess
all the information. He thought the conduct of Prussia on
this question most reprehensible. If she chose to abolish
her Parliament and suppress the press, against that he had
not a ward to say, she was the mistress of her own affairs,
and, therefore, liable to all the consequences. But when
her policy carried her beyond those limits, and it affected
other countries, he considered it was the duty of those
countries to speak out. It was well known that a conven-
tion had been entered into between Russia and Prussia,
by the provisions of which, when the Russian troops
were beaten by the Poles, they might take refuge
on the Prussian frontiers, where they could be recruited
and :then sent forth in renewed strength. On the other
hand, if the Polish insurgents entered the territories of
of Prussia they were at once captured and handed over to
Russia. As to the convention itself, Prussia said it was
proposed by Russia, whilst Russia seemed less eager to en-
force its powers than Prussia. The noble earl then pro-
ceeded to condemn the action of Prussia, and said it ap-
peared the chief motive of that Government was to crush
every attempt made to obtain constitutional liberty in that
part of the world. He pat the question merely because_he
thought further time should not pass by without some at-
tempt to obtain further information.
Earl RUSSELL said the noble earl had very judiciously
avoided all reference to the negotiations now going on with
reference to the Poles. At the present moment it was not
in his (Earl Russell's) power to add anything to the infor-
mation to be derived from the papers now before Par-
liament. _ _

Lord BROUGHAM condemned the conduct of Prussia
for entering into such a convention.

The Earl of CARNARVON asked the noble earl
whether he would give any information relative to the
secret article which was alluded to in the convention.
Earl RUSSELL said he would not.
Their lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS—Last Evening.
The SPEAKER took the chair at the usual hour.
NEW MEMBER.
Mr. TOTTENHAM took the oaths and his seat for New
Ross. The hon. member was introduced by Col. Taylor
and Col. Dunne.
THIRD READINGS.
The following bills were read a third time :—Belfast,
Holywood, and Bangor Railway—Hastings Harbour—Mil-
ford Haven Dock and Railway—Portadown, Dungannon,
and Omagh Junction Railway—West Shropshire Mineral
Railway—and Worcester, Dean Forest and Monmouth
Railway.

SIR J. S. LILLIE.
On the motion of Sir DE LACY EVANS an address
for a copy of a despatch, dated 1860, from the Portuguese
Ambassador to Earl Russell, conveying a strong recom-
mendation from the Queen of Portugal of Sir J. S. Lillie,
late a Major-General in the Portuguese army, on account of
his eminent services in several battles while in command of
the Anglo-Portuguese regiment was agreed to.

THE SLAVE TRADE IN AMERICA.
Mr. CONINGHAM asked the First Lord of the
Treasury, whether the efforts which had been made
hitherto by the British nation, for the suppression of the
African slave trade, might not with advantage be extended
to the continent of America, and whether the time had not
at length arrived when it became the duty of her Majesty's
Government to enter into friendly negotiations with the
Federal Government of the United States, for the purpose
of concerting measures for the gradual but total suppres-
sion of the slave trade in the Confederate States.
Lord PALMERSTON replied that the hon. member was,
no doubt, aware that the Federal Government had entered
into a treaty with her Majesty's Government, giving both
equal right of search for the purpose of suppressing the
slave trade under the protection of the Federal flag. The
Confederate States had passed a law which made the slave
trade penal ; but they had no relations to the Federal States
except one of war. Perhaps in the course of a few months
circumstances might permit the entering into such nego-
tiations as those indicated by the hon. member. (Hear.)
As her Majesty's Government could not yet acknowledge
the independence of the Southern States, no diplomatic
communication could take place. In the course
of time, should things alter—should the Confederate
States succeed in establishing their independence,
Government could only hope that the Confederate States
would enter into an arrangement similar to the one entered
into by the Federal Government. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. CONINGHAM, adverting to the latter part of his
motion, asked if communication could not be entered into
with the Federal Government with a view to the suppres-
sion of the traffic.
Lord PALMERSTON replied that he considered he had
replied to that part of the question. (Hear, hear.) The
Federal Government had no relation with the South except
one of war, and, therefore, could enter into no negociations
with them of the ordinary nature.
THE HOUSE OF COMMONS REFRESHMENT
ROOM.
Mr. H. SEYMOUR asked Colonel French, the chair-
man of the Kitchen and Refreshment Rooms Committee,
what steps they were about to take to improve
the state of the refreshment rooms, with a view to the next
Session of Parliament. (Hear, hear.)
Col. FRENCH replied that the accommodation at pre-
sent afforded was exceedingly defective. (near, hear.) Mr.
Barry had furnished a plan and submitted it to the Chief
Commissioner of Works for the improvement of the rooms,
which would cost about £4,000, and the committee had
reported that its adoption and execution were absolutely
necessary. (Hear, hear.) He trusted the house would
press upon the Chancellor of the Exchequer the propriety
of proposing a vote to meet the indispensable improvements
pointed out. (Hear.)
THE HOUttS OF LABOUR OF CHILDREN.
Mr. FERRAND asked the Secretary of State for the
Home Department whether he intended to bring in a
bill this session to limit the hours of labour for children
employed in potteries and paper tubefactories ?
Sir G. GREY replied in the negative. He had, however,
directed the recent report of the Children's Employment
Commission to be laid on the table. He had not received
any special report with respect to children employed in
paper tube factories.
SMALL PDX PATIENTS IN PUBLIC CONVEY

ANCES.
Sir A. AGNE W asked the Attorney- General whether
officials of railway and steamboat companies might lawfully
remove from carriages or vessels under their supervision
Persona who were obviously labouring under small-pox ;
and, whether individuals thus wilfully travelling from place
to Plate at the risk of spreading so dreadful a scourge
through
on conviction whole community, were subject to any penalty
The Arloueßtine a magistrate ?
"Y
-GENERAL said these were not
questions that could
However,
conveniently put to the law officers
of the Crown,
his power. At
common nsler, he would give the best reply in
4 lawconiavieti:oivd not appear to him that the
officials indicate
TParliament here was no act of Passengers so afflicted.
on the subject. The second
question he answered in the
negative--magistrates
'1"h:6—magistrates had no
such power. (Hear, hear.)
THE ARGENTINE Gov
In reply to Mr. CLAY, 2aIIiMENT.
Mr. LAYARD said that the facts recited
were
tl
the
i• Re-
true. The Commissioners had refused to acknowledgerfectly
principle of the former claims that had been set
presentations had been made to the Argentine Govecn-
ment to the effect that the course the Commissioners were
adopting were contrary
.to national usage, and he trusted
therefore that the sittings would be suspended.
BRITISH COLUMBIA.
In reply to Mr. FITZWILLIAU,
Mr. FORTESCUE said that the Secretary
of State for
the Colonies shortly intended to introduce a bill into the
other house with respect to the two colonies, when he
would enter upon a statement with respect to them.
OF
THE RECENT FIRE IN THE HOUSE
COMMONS.
In reply to Mr. HUNT,
Mr. COOPER explained that the fire in one of the coce
r-
ridors arose from a deposit for years of soot in consequen
of some bricks haring been left out by mistake for one of
the iron arches of the roof and not subsequently filled up
as it should have been. The flue from which the deposit
had been made, and which became ignited, was in connec-
tion with the kitchen. He had given directions to have
all the flues carefully examined. The nearest stand cock
reported all right three months ago, was found
too
Wasstiff.to work. The next one which was in good order
a,
out quickly rendered available, and the defective one in
t minutes after the discovery. These • k of
which there were 37, cocks,
imnikttate with a tank containing
12,00 gallons of watemr, There Was a constant attendance

of police, whose duty it was to visit every part of the house
every half hour. Means had been taken to prevent the
possibility of any similar occurrence in the flit= .
ROYAL PATRIO ric ASYLUM.
In reply to a question from Mr. W. FoRsTE.

Sir J. PAKINGTON entered into a len , . statement,
and admitted the assumptions in the que3 . Steps had
been taken to replace the number of ladies w had retired.
He wished to state that the wives of the officers referred to
were completely independent. (Laughter.)
AGRICULTURAL STATISTICS.

In reply to a question from Mr. HEYGATE,
Sir G. GREY explained the course he had adopted. The
collection of these statistics would includa an outlay of
£15,000 a year, and the benefit to be secured would not, in
his opinion, warrant so large an expenditure.
THE GREAT EXHIBITION—POLAND.

Mr. GREGORY said as the paper was very heavy on
Monday, it would be very conveaient if the noble lord
would postpone his proposition until this day week.
Lord PALMERSTON replied that he could not post-
pone the notice he had given for Monday.

Mr. HENNESSY expressed hiz, determination to bring
on his motion with respect to Poland on Monday.

Mr. CRAWFORD gave notice that he should to. morrow
ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether the offer of
£30,000 to Messrs. Lucas for the building was in writing,
and if there would be any objection to lay all the correspon-
dence on the table,

viona occasion. moved that the vote be reduced by £B,OOO,
the estimate for a lighthouse off the Little Basses Rocks
near Ceylon. At all events, he hoped that item of the vote
would be postponed till next year, so that the total estimate
(which would be much more than £8,000) might be laid be-
fore the house. There had been already over £60,000 spent
in ten years upon the lighthouse, for which the original
estimate was but £4,500, and to this day no lighthouse had
been built.
Mr. A. SMITH supported the vote.
After some remarks from Mr. W. WILLIAMS and Lord

R. MONTAGU,
Mr. M. GIBSON said two years ago the house sanc-

timed this light by voting £B,OOO for that purpose. A. light
ship was built by the Bombay authorities instead of the
Trinity Board. The light ship had been built, and was at
Ceylon, and do doubt was in use. This vote was to pay for
works that had been in accordance with a vote of the house.
It was a disputed question whether a light ship was the
best mode of lighting those rocks, and the Government in-
tended to test it before building other light ships. The
work had been done for which this vote was asked for, and
must be paid. The light ship was recommended by com-
petent naval officers and others, and any document relating
to it was in the Colonial-office.
The amendment was withdrawn.
On the vote being put,
Mr. A. SMITH called attention to the charge for the

lighthouse at the Bahamas, and asked for explanation. If
built of atone it would cost £35,000. The sum of £9,0i0
asked for was a re-vote, and there was no total of the coat
appended to the vote. There were already seven lighthouses
in the Bahamas, and his contention was that at least the
Bahamas should maintain them after they were built by
this country. He asked why the light charges had not be n
enforced against the shipping interest. He moved the re-
duction of the vote by £9,000.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS objected to the expenditure for a
lighthouse for the loni.n Islands, now that they were about
to be surrendered to the kingdom of Greece.
Mr. M. GIBSON said at present there was no change,
and so long as that was the case England would have to pay
her share of the maintenance of the lighthouses at Corigo.
With regard to the Bahamas, England was the only Power
who could place lighthouses there. The arrangement was
that England and America should divide the expenses by
maintaining a certain number of lighthouses on each side
of the straits. It was impossible to enforce a rate on the
people of the Bahamas, or the shipping frequenting them.
The lighthouses were for the protection of our shipping,
and it was a duty we owed to the commerce of the world
and humanity to maintain them. The £9,000 would cover
the cost of the two lighthouses proposed to be built.

Mr. W. WILLIAMS protested against any more money
being spent on the lonian Islands for the present.
The amendment was negatived without a division, and
the vote was agreed to.
The vote of £6,000 for sheriffs' court-houses, Scotland,
was agreed to.
On the vote of £27,000 for contributions in aid of local
assessments for the relief of the poor in respect of certain
descriptions of Government property,
Mr. Alderman SALOMONS called attention to the
petitions presented to the house from Deptford and
Woolwich, complaining of the mode hitherto adopted in the
distribution of the sum voted in aid of rates for Govern-
ment property, and praying for an amended distribution.
The present rule (which was very unjust) was, that the
Government should not make any contribution to parish
rates except the Government property was equal to one-
sixth of the whole of the parish in which it was situated.
Government property ought to pay the same as private pro-
perty. The people of Deptford would be very glad to get
rid of the Government establishments, and have substituted
shipbuilding• yards, which would afford employment to the
poor of the district. He complained that the petition for-
warded to the Chancellor of the Exchequer on this subject
had not been answered. One-half of the parish of St.
Nicholas, Deptfordoi as Government property, equal to
one-third of the value of the parish.
Mr. M'MAHON objected to the Government being called
upon to pay rates where the local property was enhanced in
value by its proximity to large Government establishments.
He moved the omission of the vote.
Mr. W. MARTIN said Government held property which
otherwise would pay rates, and he saw no reason why, from
the circumstance of its being Government property, it
should be exempted from rates, and the whole burthen
thrown on the other portion of the parish.
Mr. J. Powell, Mr. Doulton, and Mr. I. Butt spoke in
favour of rating public property in all instances, and called
upon the Government to rescind the arbitrary rule they had
laid down in respect to this subject.
Mr. F. PEEL said that if the proposal were to be
adopted, it would be impossible to imagine to what ex-
tent the vote would be increased. The Government
maintained the principle of exemption from local rating,
but they gave voluntary contributions to certain parishes
with reference—first, to the proportion of the Government
property to other local rateable property, and secondly, in
reference to the money levied in the parish for the main-
tenance and support of the poor. Tie did not think the
tendency of Government establishments was to increase
pauperism in the districts where they were situated, and he
instanced Somerset House as a case in point. The officers
in the Government establishments were pensioned on retire-
ment, and they were not likely to fall upon the rates for
support. The contribution was considered more in the
shape of a gift to the local charities than a payment towards
the local rates. Ho thought if they paid the poor rate it
was as much as could be expected. They had to reconcile
conflicting interests, and he thought they did so by contri-
buting the portion they did to the rates.
Sir F. BARING thought that v.-hen the principle was
once admitted it was impossible to understand why the
Government should draw the distinction between the poor
rates and the other rates.
Mr. AYRTON said that the question was one of few
contributions to the public disbursements. With regard to
Deptford, the rule adopted by Government acted very
harshly. In Deptford, the poor rates last year were Bs. 3d.
in the pound. Now when they remember that a great
grievance was made of the rates in Lancashire rising to the
monstrous sum of 3s. in the pound, they should exhibit
more consideration towards Deptford, and places similarly
circumstanced.
Mr. ANGERSTEIN opposed the course adopted by the
Government, and expressed a hope that a mere liberal and
generous policy would be adopted next year.
Mr. M'MAHON regretted that there were not more
country members present to support the Government
against the pressure which was brought to bear upon it
by the borough and local members Wherever Govern-
ment works were established, the value of property was
largely increased. If the works of Deptford were re-
moved to Cork, for example, did they suppose that the
people of Cork would willingly pay all the rates,and ask
no contribution from the Government, being well satisfied
with the advantages which the locality would derive from
the Government works ?
Mr. FULLER said this was a question which should not
be left in the hands of metropolitan members only, but
should be dealt with in the spirit of justice and equity. The
Government should not claim exemption from paying their
fair share towards the public taxes in every parish where
they had property, when railway companies and all other
public institutions were allowed no such exemption.
Mr. Alderman SALOMONS said that the exemption
claimed for the Government property in Woolwich and
Deptford had created much discontent in those parishes,
and he hoped her Majesty's Government would reconsider
the matter.
Mr. W. MARTIN said if the Government establishments
were removed from Woolwich, the value of the land would
be doubled.
The vote was then agreed to.
THE TOTE FOR EDUCATION.

Mr. LOWE said it would not be necessary,on the present
occasion, to occupy the committee at any length after the
debate which had recently taken place on the subject. The
estimate for the present year was £Bo4,ooo,which was about
£36,000 less than the estimate for last year. The estimate
was not framed from very accurate data, but he had reason
to believe that it would not be exceeded. It was made upon
the calculation that half the year would be under the for-
mer code and half under the revised code, which would
come into operation on the 30th of this month. The
estimate for last year had been £774,743. The number of
children in the schools was 1,057,426,and there was school
accommodation for 1,378,000, which was very satisfactory,
as the commissioners reported that 1,500,000 would be the
most they would have to provide for for many years.
The principal matter he had to state was the minute
they had made with reference to the only experiment
they had been able to try under the revised code, which ap-
plied to the new schools which came into existence. They
had examined 14 such schools under the revised code. The
average attendance, taking the whole of the schools as one,
was 729 ; out of the 729, 512 were presented for examine.
tion. Unlike the practice in the universities, each child had
to pass three times—in reading, writing, and arithmetic.
Out of the first 512, 375 passed in reading, 308 in writing,
and 243 in arithmettc. The result was that the schools
earned by the examination Bs. 3d. per child. The minute
they had made with regard to the training colleges was one
which ho hoped would be found to protect the interests of
the public, while at the same time maintaining the colleges.
The minute was principally framed with the view of reme-
dying, as far as practicable, three evils, which they found
existing in those training colleges. One evil was that they
had almost ceased to be voluntary institutions. Many of
rage
them
rweeteriept
as much as 99 per cent., but the ave-
managers only paid 20. Another great evil was, that while
receivingfrom Government was 80 per cent., while the
the colleges provided an excellent education for the teachers,
there was no security that the persons sa taught would de-
vote themselves to the profession. But under this minute
no payment would be made on account of any person until
he obtained his certificate and was two years employed as
teacher and imbed
obliged
eredpotorted of. Another evil was that under
the_ former system the responsibility was thrown upon the
ti77l.ll:nen.t of adapting the supply of teachers to the de-
mandbvirehthern,_ but under under the new minute the responsibility would
I be about
the training colleges; and henceforth they
"reamars hence,
receive more than madapt t
into
the
operation,supply t o
whichthe
wodemand.uld
75 npceer,oothnet. traininglhehcodlleges would not
• flute with regard to the inspectors which haarbmeeadn eallumded-
\