The Sun.
London, England, 1837-03-09 00:00:00

cretary at NI ar, and still more the speech of the Right Hon.
Member for Taunton—a man universally known, loved, and
looked up to—whose opinion would carry with it great
weight, and who had declared that he considered an elective
Legislative Council a most desirable thing.—( Hear, hear.)
What would be the inference naturally drawn from the va-
rious sentiments uttered by these and other Members of the
llou3e? Why, that after a little coy, reluctant, amorous
delay, the Ministry would yield itself to the vigorous pursuit
of the Hon. and Learned Member for Bath.—( Hear, hear,
and laughter.) What would be the consequence of an
elective Council? He much rejoiced to see in his place
on this occasion his Right Hon. Friend the Member for
Coventry (Mr. E. Ellice.) No man had a greater know-
ledge, from long experience of the affairs of this province,
than the Right Hon. Gentleman ; and no one could give
a sounder opinion as to what would be the effect of the
proposed measure on the province.—( Hear, hear.) He
therefore trusted the Right Hon. Member would favour the
House and the public with his candid opiniori as to the
adequacy, the wisdom, and the efficiency of the Noble Lord's
proposition. The great body of British settlers in Lower
Canada, who went out on the faith of finding there a
copy of their free national institutions, of enjoying their
national rights and national laws, were as opposed as the
inhabitants of Upper Canada were to any of the innova-
tions of French Republicanism.—( Hear, hear.) The
Hon. and Learned Member for Bath told them the
other night that the people of this country still retained
their dull, stupid, bigotted, ignorant horror of French
Republicanism. He ( Lord Stanley) rejoiced in the belief that
the Honourable and Learned Member was perfectly correct in
his supposition ; and however dull, stupid, bigotted, and igno-
rant the Honourable Member might think him for saying so,
he could assure the Honourable and Learned Member that he
shared the feeling. He could never hear without horror the
combination of these two words "French Republicanism." The
concession of an elective Legislative Council would remove
the only check which interposed against the tyrannical power
of the dominant majority,—a majority, ho would remark, in
numbers only, for in wealth, in education, in enterprise, it was
greatly inferior to the minority of 160,000 settlers of British
descent. He would venture to say that in six months after the
institution of an elective Legislative Council the British popula-
tion of Lower Canada would have determined that, the protec-
tion of the mother country being withdrawn from them, they
must take measures for protecting themselves.—( Hear.) True
they were a numerical minority; but, to increase their strength,
they would call in aid from the great body of their compatriots
in the upper province, in Nova Scotia, in New Brunswick,
and, if need were, the great British family in the United
States ; everything in their power would be done to rescue
themselves from th possibility of succumbing to French Re-
publicans.—( Hear.) What said the Commissioners on this
subject ? They looked to the consequences of an Elective
Council, and proceeded to remark as follows :—" Turning
now to the consequences of an Elective Council, we are not to
suppose that the party now so violent in demanding it would
sit down in quiet thankfulness and submission if it were granted.
It is looked to, we must consider, not as an empty name, but
rather as a means towards further ends. Neither are we left
entirely in the dark as to what those ends may be. We will not
enter upon the field of conjecture as to the various steps which
might mark the progress of their demands, but simply point out
that two at least have already been announced, which it appears
to us, whilst England has a shadow of authority, it must be im-
possible, because dishonourable, to grant. The first is the re-
peal of the Tenures Act, without a guarantee for the titles
that have been acquired under it ; the second, the abro-
gation of the Charter of the Land Company." Such would
be one of the consequences of an elective Council, and further
consequences of scarcely less importance were more than sha-
dowed forth. And how did the Noble Lord propose to meet
this ? The proposed resolutions told them that "in the exist-

ing state of toiver Canada it was unadvisable to make the
Exeeative Council of that province an elective body, but that
it was expedient that measures should be adopted for secur-
ing to that branch of the Legislature a greater degree of pub-
lic confidence." Ought they not to know what those con-
templated measures were before they in the House of Com-
mons affirmed the resolutions? He would say, let them do
what they had been doing from the commencement of this
Commission to the end of it ; let them not raise expectations
which they never intended to fulfil.—( Hear, hear, hear.)
Let them not go on uttering vague words, and doing nothing,
for the effect of such a course would be this, and only
this—it would weaken the force of a declaration of principle,
and give to no human being the power of stating what indeed
was the principle they took their stand upon.—(Cries of
H tr, hear, hear ) If they desired to surrender Lower
Canada, let them do it at once; but if they surrender Lower
Canada, they must recollect they surrendered with it Nova
Scotia and New Brunswick, and they cast off 150,000 in
Lower Canada alone of their British fellow-subjects, who
clung to them for protection against a tyrannical majority_
(cheers)—who confided in the faith of the British Parliament,
that it would not allow its engagements to them to be violated
—who entreated it to allow them to continue in the undis-
turbed enjoyment of the law and liberties conferred on their
ancestors, who themselves did nut claim the power of ty-
rannising over their. neighbours, but who did claim the privi-
lege of exercising under the British Crown the privileges of
British subjects, and who, if they flung them off—if they
• abandoned them to their own resources, were doomed to
sink in the wide-spreading democracy of the time.—(Oppo-
sition cheering.)—Let them not sacrifice their engagements
to the prejudice rather than to the sound opinions of a
party—he meant the French Canadian population—who had
granted to them a Constitution as free as any nation
could give to them—whose freedom was limited only by that
absolute controul necessary to secure the connection between
them and the mother country, but who called those whose inte-
rests were identical with the interests of the mother country
by the name of etrangers, after sixty years' habitation with
them. The French Canadians lived under the lightest taxa-
tion of any people on eerth ; their only security for the absolute
laws and feudal customs to which they clung was in the pro-
• testing power of this empire. If that protection were re-
moved, in a short time would follow the utter destruction of
their nationality, which would be merged in one great, abso-
lute, native-American Republic. (The Noble Lord, on re-
suming his seat, was very enthusiastically cheered by the Op-
position Members.)
Lord 110 WICK confessed he had never heard any speech
of his Noble Friend with greater pain than he had heard that
which he had just concluded. It was much to be regretted
it should go forth to the people of Canada that a person who
had deservedly so much-weight and iufluence and authority in
this House and •in the country, had held language so com-
pletely the reverse of conciliatory, and conceived in so arbi-
trary a spirit.--(Cheers.) That such an individual should
recommend measures of the arbitrary character of those re-
commended by his Noble Friend, he regretted deeply, and
more especially for the sake of his Noble Friend himself.—
( Opposition laugh, and Ministerial cheers.) But it was some
consolation to him for the pain he felt at this speech, that he
trusted it would act in some degree as an antidote to the very
florid speech of the Hon. Member for Bath. His Noble
Friend began his speech by expressing a hope that there
would be an almost unanimous expression of opinion on
the part of the House in the coming division ; but
towards the close of *his speech he Teemed to have for-
gotten his own recommendation, inasmuch as he brought
forward arguments which, if goad for anything, were good for
this, that the House should not approve of the resolutions before
it.—( Hear, hear.) His Noble Friend had made some remarks
ea the dispatch of' Lord Glenelg, in answer to one from the
present Governor of Lower Canada, after attempts had been
made in vain to obtain supplies in' 1836; and his Noble Friend
had commented with great severity on the expression in that
dispatch, is which Lord Glenelg had stated that it was not
desirable immediately to propose any measure in relation to
the matter to Parliament. That Noble Lord had said it
might be well to make another trial with the House of Assem-
bly, and wait to receive the answer. His Noble Friend ob-
served it might be well for Lord Glenelg, who was not per-
sonally suffering, to give this answer, but it was cruel, it was
merciless to those who were exposed in the colony, by the
course taken by the House of Assembly, to the greatest dis- ,
tress. His Hon. Friend ought surely, before he made such an
observation, to have acquainted himself with the facts of the
case, which he might have obtained from the dispatches lying
on the table of the House. If he had consulted them, he would •
have seen that Lord Glenelg did not leave the judges and
other official persons who were entitled to salary without as-
sistance or resources ; so far from doing so, in writing his dis-
patch he told the Governor to apply to the relief of the press-
ing necessity of those persons the funds arising from the ordi-
nary territorial and occasional revenue, to be placed at the
disposal of the Treasury, in the event of a successful termi-
nation of .the negciation with France. The sum to be so
appropriated was 30,0001., equal to one year's salary of the •
judges and others; and having it in his power in this way to
meet part of the distress of his Majesty's servants, he de-
layed till the latest period an application to this House.—
(Hear, hear.) His Noble Friend asked how came there
to be this delay on the part of those members of the Go-
vernment who were members of the Cabinet in 1834. Now
he thought his Noble Friend was taking a course not per-
fectly
consistent with usage in referring in a debate in
that House to Cabinet proceedings. He was not in the
Cabinet at that time, and he therefore could not under-
take
to say what course was taken ; but he might observe
that it was not a necessary conclusion that the Cabinet was
unanimous with respect to the bringing in of the Bill to which
his Noble Friend had referred. If the Cabinet was unani-
mous, he knew the weight which the authority of his -Noble
Friend was likely to po§sess. His Noble Friend, however, was
aware that if that measure had been persevered in, he should
have resigned the..tiffice he held. He was aware also, that the
Cabinet o that dray,; in agreeing to that measure, did not agree
to it alone. Ilis Noble Friend had leave to bring in the Bill,
but with this condition, that he should at the same time move
for a Committee, to which should be referred all the questions
involved in the Canadian differences ; and with this further
condition, that his Noble Friend shonld not make his motion
till some proceeding had taken place in that country. It had
been said there were no such conditions ; but he appealed to
the Hon. Member for Taunton (Mr. Labouelicre) and to
his Hon. Friend the Member- for Bath (Mr. Roebuck),
and to the Noble Lord himself, to confirm time correctness of
the statement he was now about to make. What he said was,
that in that country, on two separate days—before the time
a hen Iris Noble Friend resigned his situation in the Govern-
ment—on two separate days notice was given of an inten-
tien to take the sense of the Committee as to the propriety
of the Bill suspending the Act of 1831. 11e had a written
record of what took place on that occasion. On two days
notice was given of the intention to bring that subject under
tire consideration of the Committee, and on both those days,
from different causes, that intended discussion was post-
poned. So much for the delays that had taken place, and the
want of entire conformity on the part of those members of
the present Government who were members of the Cabioct
of 18J4. He came now to that more serious ciliation the
1 .

Noble Lord had raised as to the propriety of the measure
before the House. His Noble Friend told them that this
was no time for half measures ; that they must take one
course or the other. This was not a question of whether he
would support his Majesty's Government or the Honourable
Member for Bath. He had no hesitation as to that.
He admitted that they must bring forward some mea-
sure to overcome the opposition of the House of As-
sembly, but he contended that the course proposed was
wrong, because it was inefficient. There were two mea-
sures which might be adopted, if they. would not concede
all that was demanded of them. There was that line of
policy which his Majesty's Government recommended, and
there was the stronger course recommended by his Noble
Friend himself. His Noble Friend complained that the re-
solutions were not sufficiently explanatory; he wished his
Noble Friend had described a little more fully what his course
of policy would be. The Noble Lord said they must be pre-
pared to meet the continued hostility of the House of Assem-
bly of Lower Canada, and that being the case, he would have
taken his stand on the Legislative Council as it now existed,
and would have proposed the very measure which he would
have brought forward in 1834—he would have come forward
with a measure for the repeal of the Act of 1831. Would
that course have been successful ? Did his Noble Friend
suppose that he could have permanently carried on the Go-
vernment in the face of the opposition of the House of As-
sembly by the means he proposed ? Ilia Noble Friend had
quoted several passages from the Report of the Commis-
sioners. He had quoted, amongst others, from Sir G. Gipps,
who, after recommending the very measure to which his Noble
Friend had adverted, thus stated what his hopes were of its suc-
cess--" With respect to the working of the measure, which is
default of any other we have been forced to recommend, I
cannot entertain the hope that, unless combined with others of
a very firm and judicious, but at the same time healing
character, it will prove either efficacious or saf,.. The Assem-
bly, by the suspension of the Act 1 and 2 Will. IV., will be
deprived, it is true, of a portion of its power, but it will still
remain in possession of ample means of thwarting the Govern-
ment, and these means we may expect to see it exert with an
unscrupulous hostility. The suspension of this Act is, more-
over, the measure which they expect, for they had due notice
of it in 1834, and for/which they, to a certain extent, are pre-
pared. The Assembly, even when deprived of the revenues
of the 14th George ILI., will retain its control over funds
nearly twice as great as those in the hands of the Executive ;
and although the House may not have power to dispose of
them at its discretion, it will ,at any rate be able to lock
them up, and especially to prevent the application of them
to any purpose favourable to the Government or to the in-
terests of the British party. It may also refuse to pass
Bills required by the commercial interest, such, for instance,
as Bills for the renewal of the Charters of the Quebec and
Montreal Banks, both of which will expire in July, 1837.
When I consider, therefore, the bitter hostility, or rather fury,
with which the Assembly will be animated against the British
Government, and against British interests ; the invectives
which, under the direction of its practised leaders, it will
pour forth against England; the power it will possess of
spreading disaffection within the province, and inviting inter-
ference from without, I am at a loss to imagine how the Go-
vernment can be carried on with advantage, and I cannot help
fearing that we shall ultimately be driven to abandon the coun-
try with all the shame of failure upon us, or to maintain it at
a cost infinitely beyond its value." This was the testimony of
one of the very persons by whom the measures of his Noble
Friend were recommended, and the House saw what were his
hopes of success. With reference to the Noble Lord's com-
plaint, lie was not prepared to say that any mode of carrying
on the Government under a popular constitution could be de-
vised in which a permanent resistance to the popular branch of
the Legislature could be maintained ; he believed that with re-
gard to every nation such a proposition was an absurdity in
itself. He could not imagine that any man could look forward
to the prosecution of such an attempt ; he still most earnestly
clung to the hope of an accommodation with the House of
Assembly and the people of Lower Canada. What his Noble
Friend proposed was to throw away all hopes of conciliation ;
openly, and without a chance of accommodation, he would
come to issue with the House of Assembly. How would he
work a popular Government in Canada, with that feeling which
the course he recommended would excite against it ? He
would, looking to the means of carrying on the Government,
relieve the executive officers and the, judicial officers from the
pressure that was now on them ; while at the same time he
would say to the people of Canada, he was willing to enter into
an accommodation with them—to agree to what would be fair
terms with them, and to do that which would be just and equi-
table to all parties.—( Hear.) That was, he declar ed, the prin-
ciple of policy on which the Government was prepared to act.
He did not deny that success might not be attained by the Go-
vernment. It was far from him to say that such a line of po-
licy must certainly be successful. Their measures might fail
—they might not be able to attain'the object that they had
in view; and should all their efforts be attended with an un-
fortunate result, what was the alternative? Why, they might
still take the course which his Noble Friend had proposed—
( Cheers)—or they might even adopt still stronger measures
if necessary.—(Hear.) And if all attempts at conciliation
failed, then the Legislature would have to determine between
one of two things. They might determine upon governing
Canada upon principles different from the Act of 1791, or
they might withdraw their protection from that colony. He
would not disguise that the alternative was of a fearful de-
scription. It was an alternative to which he trusted and be.
lieved they would never be driven.—( Hear, hear.) The al-
ternative was bad for all parties, and One that, in his judgment,
could not with calmness be contemplated.—( Hear.) But
then his Noble Friend said that they ought to take their
stand in support of the Legislative Council as it now existed.
His Noble Friend, too, had condemned the expressions used
by his Right Hon. Friend the Member for Taunton, and h e
had particularly condemned his reference to the speech of
Mr. Fox in 1791, and he had also asked them what th cy
meant by the expression used in the resolutions with respect
to the Legislative Council. Ho at once asked, in reply to
such observations, was it possible to take as their ground of
defence the Legislative Council as it now stood ? He asked
his Noble Friend whether he had given an attentive considera-

tion to the passages in the general report adverting to that
Council, which even in its origin was admitted to be but an
experiment ? It was stated distinctly in the report that the
system of nomination adopted with respect to that Council
was a vicious one, and that it afforded neither security to the
Throne nor confidence to the people. It was stated, too, by
the Commissioners, that even during their own residence in
Canada the Council had rejected Bills which were of great
public good—(Hear, hear)—and it was clear, from their
experience of the Elective Council, that it was not quite
suited to the Canadians.—( Hear.) Why, then, in the
face of the report of their Commissioners—of Commissioners,
too, of their own nomination, was it possible for them to de-
clare that the Legislative Council, as at present constituted,
was such that, under no circumstances, it was to be departed
from.—(Hear, hear.) Was it not even avowed by Mr. Pitt

that it was an experiment even at the time that it was adopted ?
,Was not his Noble Friend aware that its adoption was a de-
viation from the whole of the policy adopted with respect to
their colonies? Was not his Noble Friend aware that a
Council such as it was, in Upper and Lower- Canada never
before existed in the British colonies? It never before ex-
isted, and never since hail existed.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. Pitt
had unfortunately departed from the usual form adopted with
respect to other colonies. There was nothing like it in Nova
Scotia, in New Brunswick, in Jamaica, or in the West India
islands. In all there there was to be found a council diffe-

rent from that which existed in Canada. The Canadian
Council did not represent the Crown, nor was it elected by the
people-4 Hear)---and it was one over whom there was no spe-
cies of control whatever. It appeared to him that this was
the original fault, and to him it appeared to be a great
fault indeed. But now, as to making the Council elective,
if, for the reasons assigned by the Commissioners, they were
for refusing the change that was proposed, it did not follow
that because they were not prepared to make the Council clec-

tive, that therefore they were to maintain it precisely in its pre-
sent condition.—( Hear, hear.) His Noble Friend had said,
that the words contained in their resolution, referring to this
point, were very vague—that they talked of the Legislative
Council having more of the public confidence than it now
possessed. He now bogged to inform his Noble Friend—as
it had been already mentioned by his Noble Friend ( Lord J.
Russell) in introducing this subject that the resolutions pro-
posed were to be the groundwork of a Bill—that an Act of
Parliament was necessary to carry into effect the views of the

Government, and iii that Act of Parliament certain im-
provements were proposed to be introduced with respect
to the constitution of the Legislative Council. They should
prepare to remove from the Legislative Council those who
were guilty of offences in certain circumstances—that Legis-
lative CouneiHors should have the power of resigning; anti
certainly, beyond that, security would be afforded for having
a more judicious choice of Members of the Council. It was
impossible to devise means for giving complete security for
a satisfactory choice of the Members of the Council. But
more than that he would say, that if a plan could. be devised
such as would be satisfactory to the people of that province
—if any mode could be devised of practically improving the
constitution of that council—in such an improvement he
for one would be most happy to agree.—(Cheers.) In all free
countries the institutions ought to be such as were calculated
to produce the most good to the great body of the intelligent
classes.. If they attempted to support and maintain any
other—no matter what might be the aid they should obtain,
-or the power they could command—although tbzy might for
a shorter or a longer period prolong the cont.:;st, still they
might depend upon it that, sooner or later, they would be
defeated.—(Cheers.) Ile for one never would say to the peo-
ple of Canada that where a necessary improvement was re-
quired to that necessary improvement he would never consent.
lie trusted that the Parliament and, the country never would
adopt that mode of dealing with Canakin..—( Hear, hear, hear.)
Such were the grounds upon which the policy of the Govern-
ment rested, and upon that he hoped it would rest. The Hon.
and Learned Member for Bath told then i that it was quite in vain
to look for accommodation. Even if h i were so convinced, still
he thought that the attempt ought to he made before they tame to
the last resort. —(Hear. ) Ile knew,. that from circunr,canees, it
was impossible for his Noble Friend i.e. Flo all that he v;as requested
to do : but still he said that even what: he did do wr,s attended with
very great and benescial effects. For -previous!v to 1831, it was
not merely the French Canadians that forme , the party of Mr.
Papineau, but there was also joined with tlry.o a strong and a stre-
nuous opposition of many persona in that. ,zountry of great weight,
influence, and authority, who were s
_sow to ha- found ranged
amongst the ranks of the supporter*. of Government.—(Hear.)
Amongst others, he might mention. Mr. Neilson. Mr. Neil-
son, who had with regard to the, proposed respecting the
finances of Canada given it his opposition, was found, since
the concessions made by Lord GAtieri, Ali, to be one of the supporters
of the Government. If that
t!ourse, of
permanently carried into efket, the policy were consistently and
y might overcome the opposition
which they had to encounter, and put an end to all those unfortu-
nate divisions that now exined._(,,
i-d
was required was not lea: hear.) If already all that
done, he regr skit In his office whatever
influencell'4 r5Q4494 yes 6 AN to it,
iute effect a cowls,