The Sun.
London, England, 1830-12-07 00:00:00

M. DE CHAN rELAUZE.—Ocr. 46.

, At what period, 1 reVious to the formation of the Ministry of
the Bth of August, were you apprised that it was to be formed
immediately only learned it by the journals. (The mini.
nant then denied having entered into any engagement with the
King personally, or having prepared a plan for him to secure the
majority in the then existing Chamber of Deputies in favour of
the new Ministry, or of having drawn up for the King's use the
plan of Reform attempted to be consummated on the 23th of
July, i 830.)
Had you net that plan and those ordinances in view when in
the debate in the Chamber of Deputies on the last address, you
called on the Government to make a monarchical bth of Sep.
tember I—l have nireiuly replied to that question. As for the
words five Septetnbre monarehique," which escaped me in the
Muse of a long extemporaneous speech they had not the mean•
ing attributed to them; and I immediately inserted an explana.
Lion of them in the Constitutionnel, which was and appeared to
be k,erfectly satisfactory.
}rem the answer you have just given, we are to conclude that
yob did not then think it possible to quit without danger the
constitutional line of conduct laid down by the Charter had
not at that time any thoughts of the measures adopted on the
96th of July, which, howeva, do not deviate from that constitu.
Ronal line of conduct.

At the termination of that Session did not M. de Polignac
make you a formal offering of entering the administration, and
did he not particularly dila' you the Department of Public in-
struction P Why did you reuse it P-1 did not know M. de Po.
lignite, and 1 had quitted Paris at least a month before the ter-
mination of the Session.

(The examinant, in answer to successive question,, dewed
having at or about that time laid before the Xing, the Dauphin,
M. de Polignae, or M. de Peyronnet, the details of the plan
atom,' ed to be carried into execution on the :25th of July.)
Did you not agree with M. de Peyronnet not to enter the Mi-
nistry without him P.—There was no agreement of the kind but
at a later period ; in the month of May I did to a certain extent
mac that a condition of my entering the Council.

(The examinant, in answer to other questions denied that lie
knew M. tie Polignac's intention ofdissolving the Chamber when
he left Paris after the prorogation and consequently denied that
be encouraged him in that design.
At what period did M. de Polignac apprise you of hit intention
to call you to the administration of the Department of Justice
and what answer did you =Achim P—The 15th or lath August I
I was nominated Minister of Public Instruction ; I immediately
expressed a wish to decline it, which was acceded to.. On the
20th April, in the following year, I received in> nomination as
Keeper of the Seals. I expressed the greatest repugnance to
accept this office. I urged all the considerations which appeared
likely to relieve me flora my situation. Various circumstances,
which It would be superfluous to detail, rendered it impossible
for me to persist in this resolution.
(the examinant, In answer to other questions, denied that he
communicated to the Dauphin, at Grenoble, the plan of the
ordinances of the 25th of ditty, or that M. do Polignac comma.
Ideated to him, when he entered the Ministry, his intention of
changing, by ordinance, the laws relating to election and the
press. He also stated that the' only engagements by which he
bound himself to M. de Polignac on entering office were those by
which all Ministers who had been in power Mr the last 15 years,
had. bound thenuelveit.)
Wo find among the documents a memorial drawn up by M.
Guernon de itanville, in December, l8t), in which he points out
the danger of adopting any me sure in violation of the Charter,
and in contempt of the oaths Which had beets taken. Have you
any knowledge of this paper which was delivered by him to M.
deyolignac P—No.

Did M. lineman do Renville retain, after your entrance into
the Council, the same opinions on the state of France,.the rights
of the country, and the duties of Charles X. Y.—l must decline
repeating any thing that passed in the privacy of the Council.
Did you intend, when:you entered the Ministry on the likh of
May, to preserve your fidelity to the Charter—to respect the laws
of the country, and not to yield to any persuasions which might
be employed to induce you to violate them 7—Neither I nor any
one else had then any thoughts of the measures which were
adopted on the 2Ath of 'July, which, however, I. cannot consider
as a violation of the Charter. . _

Nevertheless, M. de Chabrol and M. de Courvoisler had re.
tired, through tear of finding themselves obliged to take part lu
such measures. When you were called to supersede them, did
you not engage to be more flexible than they k—As the ordi-
nances were not then contemplated, lam the More unable to
assign such a motive for their retirement.

AI what-precise 'time 71ilyou come 'to the determination of
assenting to the onlinancea P—A few days before that on which
they are dated.
On consenting to sign the ordinances, you must have been
aware that the execution of them would give rise to resistance;
as Minister of Justice, it was your duty, more than any other,
to occupy yourself in considering what legal means could be
adopted to overcome that resistance. What plan did you forne
on that subject Phlone; no expectation was entertained of any
material resistance, and as the execution of the ordinances was
to be eticcted by the administrative authorities, I was not called
upon as Minister of Justice to take any part in it.
Since the ordinances might give rise to the seizure of private
property, how could you suppose that their execution would be
wholly administrative, and that no recourse would be had to the
tribunals ?--Far from supposing it, the Ministry had a right to
depend on the co-operation of all the authorities to save the Mo-
narchy from the dangers with which it was threatened.
You should include the Tribunals among the authorities ; now,
you were well aware,_ for you stated so in writing to M. de Po-
lignae on the 9th of May, that the -Tribunals would never lend
themselves by the decrees to any extra-legal measures, What
means did you then intend to make we of to supply their place ?
--The pressure and authority of the Chambers would soon have
put an end to the resistance which might have been met with in
any judicial bodies.
Did you not receive a formal &mind for the re-establishment
of the Cour: Prevolates ?—No such question was even agitated in
the Council. I do not know whether such a demand was net made
by some public innetionaties ; but at any rate, it led to no result.
Did you not depend on the military trundle's as substitutes for
the Cours Pretax:ales Was it 14 with this view that you de.
termined in the Council, on the e 'deg of the 27th, to declare
'Paris in a state of siege
Was not M. de Champagny sent for by M. de Polignite to the
Tulle. les on the 26th for the plume., el organizing the Military
Tribunals ?—1 do not know.
Were not the forty.tive individeres whose arrest was ordered
on the 27th, to have been tried by those tribunals P—No.
As the first Maeistrate of the kingdom, you should have felt
even more strongly than M. de rolignac the odious nature of a
measure which removed the citizens from t he jurisdiet ion of their
natural judges, depriving them of all their legal reliance on the
protection of the administrative and judicial bodies. Did you
Inoshocalct or In that
eaproig
efi
?Di
have
eobletatdoyi
said fur to Mii de
at
examination that the measure was deliberated iii the (.I)li'inerils
and adopted without opposition. I cannot, however, coincide
either with the cause or the effects which you attribute to it.
As Minister of Justice, the legality both of measures them-
selves and of the mode of carrying them into chest, ought to
occupy your attention more than that of any other minister did
you see that all the external forms necessary to publish and
authenticate that ordinance in the legal manner W complied
with P—lt was lint in my departMent to see to the publication of
that Ordinitniz I had only to communicate it to the tribunals,
being able to entirely
and the rapid course ofevente preveuttal
comply with that formality.
It appears that the citizens were not warned to submit them-
selvisi to that ordinance by any placard (allirso or proclamation ;
how do you accun for that omission c.ii only give the
sante answer as too thet preeeding questions,
Was it you who ordered the Cour
RoYeAe to repair to the
lodgment
by
Tuileries P And wet it not the motive of that order to prevent
the Court
its decrees, the citizens
who had been stripped of their rights by the new oidinanees
tobienrince3rnceli,r o m
or snitigp tAertlodgment pronounced by the
i'ribunal du i
The removal of the Court, which was ordered by the Chancellor,
and not by me, could not have been with that object. 1 was even
ignorant of the existence of the judgment you mention (The
examinm runnier, in answer to questione similar to theao "put to
M. de Pey states that, having take* impart In lite mili-
tary operatitme, he knows nothing of whet orders were
the Prefects respecting summoning the people to disperse before
force was resorted to, nor why, that term .lily was emitted if
It were so.) given to
When the Deputies of Paris came to the Marshal on Wishes.
day, did M. de rolignac consult you on the answer to be given
them ?—Attar the 27th there was no deliberation of the Council,
and I wad not in any manner censured.
Did M. de Polignac give you to understand that lie informed
the King of the situation rif Paris ?—I believe that the hlarshal
irrespouded
tiottgilac also informedregular him
of i
ith ht.e King, anti I suppose M. de
When, on Thursday morning, Made rolignac found himself so
warmly pressed to Abandon iris administration and revoke the
ordinances, when you yourself rereeivect there was no other
course to be adopted, when you had, in -4C,f •
• decided to go to Se

Cloud, why did you not, before you left the Tuileries, declare
your conviction by some document which might have the died
ofputting an immediate atop to the disastrous events from which
you were obliged to fly y—We went to St. Cloud on the morning
of the 29tb, for the purpose of taking the orders of the King on
this subject.
is it not also to the influent* of the Council assembled before
the King at St. Cloud, of which you formed a part, that is to be
ascribed the delay in carrying into effect the resolution adopted
in the morning, of changing the ministry and revoking the ordi-
nances ?—There was but one deliberation at St. Clots], at which
all the ministers agreed oh the neceisitf Of at. entire change iii
the Cohneil,—(The examihant was then interrogatel as to the
connexion of, the ministry with the instigators of the tires in
Normandy his ansWers perfectly agreed with the explanations
made by his colleagues o, the same subject,—narnely, that they
were in utter ignorance of the incendiaries, whom they had taken
all mans, but ineffectually, to discover.)

STATE OF THE COUNTRY.

INCENDIARIES IN CUMBERLAND.
(Vrotti the Carlisle Journal.)

It is with the most painful feelings we have this week to
announce the breaking out in this neighbourhood of that
diabolical spirit of incendiarism which has excited so mach
alarm in many of the southern counties. It has bees dis-
played, however, by a very different elves of persons to
that to which it appears to be principally confined in the
south—viz., the agricultural labourers. In this county
that class is comparatively well off. Our peasantry (as it
is now the fashion to cull thia class of persons) are there-
fore a quiet, and, generally speaking, contented race. Not
the slightest idea is entertained that they had any hand in
the destruction of property which we are about to de-
scribe. It has bean the work, we fear, of 'some portion of
the manufacturing class; but fur what purpose it is diffi-
cult to conceive. On Tuesday night a little before nine
o'clock, a fire was discovered in, a wheat-stack belonging
to Mr. M'Cutcheon, situate in a field, a little above the
new church in the Caldewgate, on the Wigton road, and
within a quarter of a mile of the city. A fire engine was
immediately procured, and a crowd of persons soon col-
lveted upon the spot. Attention was soon afterwards di-
rected to another fire, which was discovered in an opposite
direction—bi a hay-stack belonging to Mr. Andrew, spirit-
merchant, situate at the Sheep Mount, in the Willow.
Holme. Another fire-engine was procured at this place,
and another crowd assembled round it. Within a few'
yards of the wheat-stack already mentioned, were three
other stacks of grain ; and . the file being on the wind-
ward side, it was feared for some time that the whole
would be set fire to, and doubtless that had been the in-
tention of the incendiary. By the assistance of the
police, and past of the crowd, ' the stack nearest to
the one on fire was speedily taken down and re-
moved ; and wee tarpaulings were thrown over the other
two, which saved them. The feeling exhibited by a con-
siderable portion of the crated was certainly that of ex-
ultation, and they not only refused to assist in extinguish
ing the flames, but were active in preventing others front
twisting. The buckets were taken from those carrying
water, and tossed into the flames, amidst considerable
cheerio.; ; the pipes of the fire-engines were cut in six
place*, and a police-officer, of the name of Bowman, who
was standing on the engine, directing the pipe upon the
stacks not on fire, was knocked down by a stone, which
struck him on the forehead, and inflicted a severe, though
not a dangerous, wound ! When the flames appeared to
got low, the embers were stirred up with sticks, and as
the fire brightened up a part of the crowd cheered ! The
fire continued to burn the whale night, and the stack,
which might be worth about fifty pounds, was entirely
consumed. In one part of the crowd we heard the ex-
pression, " This will teach them to make Corn Laws ;"
in another, " This will enlighten the boroughmongers."
At the fire in the 'Willow Holme the crowd wan not so
great in the nay part of the night; but between eleven
and twelve o'clock there was a considerable accession of
numbers. The police-officers, and some of the persons
assembled, had wurkeel the fire-engines with considerable
effect, but when the crowd became numerous, the persons
employed were obstructed in their work, avid ulti-
mately driven off; and the burning. parts which hail
been removed, were again thrown upon and around
the stack, and the fire, which bail been partially ex.
tinguished, was thus re-lighted. It continued .to burn
the whole of the night, although there was a heavy fall
of rain; and next day a part of it was saved. While
workmen were removing the unburned part on. Wednes-
day, a crowd again assembled, and first annoyed them, and
finally drove them cif. It was a very large stack of old
hay, of an inferior quality. The loss is estimated at
about 501. Whilst these alarming scenes were going on,
not a single Magistrate capable of acting could be found
iu the city. The Mayor is n on-resident—the senior Al-
derman is old and infirm—and the only other Magistrate
in the city (Dr. Heysham) is ao infirm by age, that it
would have been the height of cruelty to ask him to go
out on such a night. To such a state has Lord Lone-
dale's system of promoting to the Bench only political
supporters and hangers on redutted us. The Lord Chan-
cellor has read him a le'son that he will not, happily, dare
to overlook. His superior has given the order, and he
must now obey.
On Wednesday there was a meeting of some of the
county Magistrate", to consider what steps should be taken.
We.have not heard the result of their deliberations; but as
a band-bill was issued on Thursday morning, we presume
it ein:stsetes from them.

We understand that threats have been held out against
one or two other persous in Ibis neighlrourhood—amongm
others against Wm. Tharnirt, Esq., of Thrwkwood-nook.
It is kisely eller d that he has advised the farmers in t hir
county to hold back their produce from the markets; and
for 0:6 presumed fault his stacks are threatened to be de-
stroyed. •

The following is a copy of a written hand-bill which
has been posted in Caldewgate
" 1,0001. Reward.

" For the apprehension of Borough-mongers, Stock-
jobbers, Tax-eaters, Monopolisers, Special Constables, and
the extinguishers of freedosn.—ldy order of the Swing
Union."