The Sun.
London, England, 1801-12-05 00:00:00

h'OUSE• oT Commovs;

P. T DAT, Pr:. 4. • • _
I'fr. E Fr R EYS-; of -Coventry, presented a
Petition .from several pers'oris confined for debt in
War Wick Gaol, praying foi
A Person from the Customs in Scotland presented
an account of, the nuniher of persons employed in the
Davis's Straits. Whale FiShery..
Mr.
.7.EFPREYIS gave notice; That immediate-
ly'subsequent • to ' the Measures': intended to be
brought forward . res'peding the Civil- List, he
shOuld prcipose a Motitiri for the consideration cv:
the HOuie;'relative to Their Royal Highnesses tho
PRINCE Ora Pnitirstc Ess Of WALES.
Mr. YANSITTART moved for leavetO bring
in a Bill, to prevent the Distillation ..Of Siiirits 'front
Wheat in Ireland. - • - _ _ _
_Sir JOHN PARNELL said, he s'ioul,l 'have
been more satisfied if this Motion had -xtended to
other kinds of Grain, more especially OatS, gret
quantities of which were
.used for distillation in
Ireland. ~ • .
-Mr. CORRY differed in.opinion from the Right
Hon. Baronet ;.heforeia,W very considerable: iricon-•
venience from restriaing.,the Distiller; Arik,e-titer
front the use of Grain„ •. said,,, this subjed had
not been brought forwatd without the most matnied.
investigat;64,- in whiCli 'the-greatest ,attention had
been -Paid to the interests. of Ireland,
Sir j. PARN LL said, lie was happy that *a sub--
jea of this importance was, not proceeded in without
.due deliberation: _
M". WILBER.NRCE begged, teave to trouble
the House with a few words-upon this subjea, be..
cause it Was, in some degree connetied with the
k:,•'iortli of tngland. Great quantities of "Oats used
to. be. imported from. Iret4nd into, that part of
England, but in consequence of the barn iiitrvcsta
which they had had in Ireland, ior the last two
. or three years, the supply had failed; 'he, there.
fore, wished that some measure could be adopt..
ed, so' that the Oats might * again find their
way into their "old channel, not in. the shape Of
Spirits. This .was his opinion upon the subtea,
and he wished to throw it out for the consideration
of those who were .to determine neon the subjed,
for he confessed that he was a stranger to the con-
siderations anti fadiupon which their determination
was to turn. He was very desirous that the Rouge
should come to no positive decision upon this .sUb-
--jea until the intttury which it was propos'..id. to go
into should be complete.. At ptesent,,however, as
L far as he was,qualified to decide upon the question,
he wished this restriaion was extended to Oats, as
;well as Wheat, because he thought. it much better
that we should_ have. then' in the shape of. Bread
than in the shape of Spirits. It did not appear to
him that it had been sufficiently considered to what
a.degree Oats formed a part of the Bread Corn in
this. Country, becaitse otherwise all the arguments
that applied to Wheat, it was obvious must apply
to Oats. At present, however, he wished.mereiy
to express a hope that the House would
,not come to
a sudden decision, but', that they would 'suspend
their determination until a complete inquiry had
taken pace.
. .
The CHANCELLOR Vale EACHEQUER said,
that it was his wish, • and that of those who con
urred'in opinion with him, not to come to a 'sud-
den decision ; but the arguments of his Hon. Friend
had a tendency to make the House come-to a deci-
sion against distilling from:Grain altogether. The
Hon. Gentleman 11,A1 called upon the House not to
come suddenly to a. determination in favour of dis-
tilling, but his Hon. Friend must know, that un-
less-Parliament interfertd,.the Distilleries would of
course commence on the Ist of January next. The'
°bk.& of the Bill which his Hon. Friend 'moved for
was' to prohibit the ,distillation from Wheat only in
Ireland.. His HOn. Friend had,said; he wished to
extend' that prohibition to Oats, hilt it was evi-
dent that his arguments tended to the prohibition
of distilling from Grain.altogether. 'lndeed he was
sure his Bon. Frier;dvOuld acknowledge-that that
Was the general object of his argument. He was
aware that upon this sohjeft a' kind of prejudice -had
gone abroad against 'from Grain, and
.he,
for: one,• did not like to 'resist. popular-opinion,
•'tiniesl; when his duty called upon him.tO do it ; but
'he never woUld'inake a coniptimiise betv.:ern his
duty and his wishes, or to Speak 'mare cotreitly, he
never would entertain any wishts': flia.r -were-not
'consistent with his duty. When;lie:usedrist.:;,wlord
'Prejudice, he should be Very:•&iititious "lit- applying
it to. an. opinion entertained by large:Tortien
of, the People of this Country, On, the -cont4ry
lie should,:in the first inriince, he inctined to think
• his own opinion, if it. dii.f.-teci from theirs, might
, be a prejudice, ,and instead of obstinacely.,adhering
it, he shouldmost axioUsly look into the grounds

upon which it was founded. Tt wasin aOnsteeetice
of having been driven to this duty that he had,
during the last four or five days, given this sobje&
a great deal of attention, and he canfessed that he
could not find any arguments whatever, that satis-
fled him of the propriety of stopping the Distilleries
altogether. Heying' upon a' former occasion
troulaleel-the House .upon this subjeec, he should not
now. occupy =eel) of their time, but there were
some circumstances which: he
.begged particularly
to cdlrio ttie afteiitioh theHoifse. -- It -was a•-fart
perfegly well known; that-darting-the last. century,
but especially during, the last 20 years, the popula, •
non of this Country ipetincreaseo. very considerably.:
The disturbances oh the Continent, foe the last nine
or ten
,years, had. thrown almost the trade of the
.1-et:TM i<rrto our hands. The-consequence Wee, that
,our consumptionehad very conSiderably increased. It
cceld not have escaped theobservation of the House,.
that out importation -pf all sorts of grain, Iliad, of
late. years, increased most..ftodigiouly, and this.
:cilcunstance could :only .be accounted for in. -this:
manner, that feom the sudden and ireruense increase
. of our Comeneece„a great proportion of capital was
eepplied to Trade. This naturally increased con-
. aituaption, becauae from the general diffusion of
wealth, those who some years ago received only
nine or; ten .shillings a week for their labour, now
.received nearly twice
.as much, and of course their
mode -0 living was proportionably increased. It
.was therefore ampossible that Agriculture Could at
once quite keep pace with such a. sudden increase iii
the coesureptior. 1-le.haa )lowever, the satisfaction
of stating, 'that- the had struggled to
keep pace with this great . increase in the -demand,
anti that great and essential improvements had been
. made, so that, if can ,t4ae
,one hand therdemand'was
augmented, so, on the other hand, had the exertion
Acersaipplyit, -.Under such circumstances, the I'ouse
eponici..4cate.he, was -stare, throw obstac4's is thefwey
of cultiVation, but would- rather ahataie from all
iftrfrArvice, in the application 'of. Capital. Even
-that; wise,
...measure which Parliament had adopted
thei situation in-which the Country=was,
,he.
oosideted; it a wise measure). of giving Bounties for
41aalinpa),rtation ofeorn,was adopted with reludance;
because it was right to suffer great inconvenience
be-
fore they suffered the iapportation of Forc7gn Corn.:
. seise. GeVernment -w.otild only. edmit of :such incee
pertation in eases of extremity, because by weether-
.ing thedifficulty with firmness,. they would, after_
words feel themselves rewarded by finding-the 'pro:
duce equel to the eonsereption, and by obtaining a
probable security against such difficulties-in fliture.'
If this principle was applied to the case before the
liouse,•it must be. the wish-of every body to en_
courage every, effort to increase the produetion of the
country, and by no means to check the sPieiradeul-•
,tivatioe. ..It was the principle of our ancestors to:
encourage the exportation of Corn by bounties, and
dinp later titres the Legislators suffered_ Corn_ to be',
used for varioes purposes: of trade in every mode
that was thought proper. The .corise.quence was,
that much was used for the nistilkries ; and could.
Man clCulit that the Distilleries had contributed
....very materially:to increase the produetiop•of Bar-
' ley ? Or did any Man doubt, that if they 'were upon
-every inocinvenience to stop the Distilleries; that
the consequence would ultimately be, that they
would stop altogether, and then Government must-
come back to that wise sytero which they had
abandoned. 'WoUld any Gentleman assets, that
itherenow existed such an absOlUte necessity as
Would justify then) in 'preventing` the. distillation.
from Grain k In answer to this itiestidn, it would
be necessary- to. inquire to what. purposes Barley
was applied ? It was used for making bread, for
feeding swine, and for malting for beer and spirits.
—tet-any man look at' the price:of flailey and of
Vheat at presept, and'he would . Confess' that the
price of the latter was such' as to indneepeople to
use the former in Bread, if they were at all disposed
' so to do, becaus,eat the present price of Barle'y, the
loaf would cost about seven-pence.; therefore it was
not from 'want of cheapness that the people did not
now use if fer Bread. As to feeding the "swine
, with it, thank God the abundance of:the late har-
vest, which was perhaps the most produCtive ever
'known, had rendered that unnecessary, because the
crops of Pease and I?otatoes, both' of- which ,were
used for that. purpose, were beyond example .greaa.
It ‘.ya.s therefore not now necessary to give Barley to
the swine; brut , even if it was, the refuse frrini the
Distillerieswould answer that purpose. But there
Was another, objet to by taken into'consideration,and
that was, the price of-Meat, for it Was well known
that the Opening of the Distilleries would not only
lower the price of Pork but of Meat in' 'general.
He came now to consider Barley as used for Melting-
for Beer. and Spirits, and he trusted he had satisfied
the Honst that the Price of 'Bread would not be
,bffeded 'by Opening the Distilleries, and that the-
Price of. Meat. would-be reduced:by it. He had
upon a former occasion -stated, that -Barley could not
be exported from Ireland when it seas above a cer-
tain prier, and therefore we could not at present get
it from Ireland in the shape of Grain. Now as the
produce ofithat Grain had been very abundaet this
year in Ireland, the Grower must seek a market for
is produee, and it was in distillation alone that
be could find such a market. He trusted, how_
ever, that it would be found that the• interest of
• both countriea would be promoted.
,by a free
interchange of Grain between them, and that' we
should in fiiture receive great supplies from
Ireland, which we had been Obliged to get from
ether- Countriea at a large expetice. If' Ireland
was prevented from exporting her grain, - she
must hive recourse to distillation to consume it,
endsif Goverpment were to prevent her from distil.'
ling legitimately, the consequence was, that it
would be done . fraudulently, and- unfortunately no
Country- had: more places in which such a kind of
prafti'ee :Could b. carried on, with less danger of
Bete ion: r, The.consuluence of this would be, that
our markets would be crowded with Spirits so dise
tilled, to-the ts:iiet injury of the 'fair, Trader, and
to the setiotesdiminution Of the. Iteeenue.' besides, ,
he wished seriously to ask the HouSe, whether it
iyas ceonsistent with justice or policy (except in 'ex-
treme 'cases), to iripose such restriCtiOTlS as those
ewort !r,en of charatteraindeapital; as the Distillers
4v ere "k) The'effed of theie frequent interruptions in
'their :trade; v mild be to unhinge their opinion
in the justice and good faith of Parliament and

At last induct them to withdraw altogether from
thatgratle in which they had been engaged ; indeed
he knew from communications he had, that if these
eneasures'were persisted in, it would induce them to
withdraw wholly front this trade. It was not a wise
system of policy, nor was it consistent with the
charaeter and genius of this Country,. to impose re-
straints upon trade, unless there was an absolute ne.
cessity for it. It was true, as had been stated upon
a former occasion, that if the Distilleries were open-
ed, the effect. upon the Grain Market would not be
exactly in proportion to the quantity taken out for
The purpose of distilling, that is to say, if 257,000
quarters of Barley were,, for the purpose of £stil-
ling, to be taken out. of the,whele crop of 6,000,000
quarters, it would r4othe Market higher-than it
ought
,to do with a reference to these two quan..
titles. But it was to" be observed, that the
expeaation of a demand for the Distilleries had
increased the Price, more than if the 250,000.
quarters of Barley had been by any accident
-destroyed, and 'he verily believed, that if the
Distilleries had been going on fc;r the last- three
months, the.price of -Barley would have been lower
than it now, is. :He had the pleasure, of observing,
that within tbe.last few _days the price had ,declined.
He wished much he could agree with Gentlemen,
for whose opinions he bad the highest respea, but
on such a subjea-as this he cdtld 'not he a party to
opinions which 114 mind did not approve of. With
regard to the Bill imposing Dnties upon Molasses,
&c. it certainly was attended with many difficulties,
and he believed it would be necessary to postpone
the further consideration of it till after the gems,
• but in the mean time no bad effeCt could be produced
from the delay. He would not now detain the
House any, lorger„. except, merely to repeat what
appeared ..to hire a consideration of the greatest
importance, viz. that if the legitimate Distilleries
were_sOppecLin, same quaotity'of
Grain would be fraudulently. distilled, and conse.
quently•the fair Trader and the Revenue would be
equally injured.
Mr. WILBERFORCE and the CHANCELLQIL of
the ExeriEQUER severally explained.

Mr; ALEXANDER supported the Motion, be_
cause if the Distilleries'were to be stopped, it would
only- transfer the, trade yarn the fair Trader to the
Smuggler. It ~vas the interest of Ireland to. grow
Oats,. and if she was. not allowed to distil from
them by Law, they. would do..it by stealth.
Sir JOHN PARNELL said, that the arguments
in general. had gone to skew the propriety of suf-
fering the Distilleries from Barley to continue, but
the objea.of what he had urged, was to skew that
the distillery from Oats should not be allowed,—
Oats couldnOt be exported from Ireland when they
were Aboe a certain price, and by opening the
Distilleries, they would'be immediately raised above
the .Export price.

The CHANCELLOR .of the EXCHEQUER. ex-
plained. .
Mr, WILBERFORCE explained.

Mr. WILLIAM DUNDAS observed, that there
had been in Scotland a more abundant harvest of
Oats than had been known for a long period of
time, which were likely to be extremely cheap,
even as low as IL per boll, if not lower. It was
certainly necessary that the Farmer should have a
sufficient profit out of the produce of his Land, but
if Oats became lower than al. per boll, it wab pro-
bable from the little prdfit arising in-that case to
the Farmer, that much of the Land DOW cultivated
with Qats would be turned to Pasture. Oats, he
said, had never been used in distillation in Scotland.
Mr. CURRY explained.

Lord GLENBE.RVIE said, that a great deal of
the Barley used in the distillery both in this Country
and Scotland was untualted Barley, much of it being
damaged and incapable of being malted. One kind
of the Barley used in the 13istilliries in Scotland,
1,a5.,.hel said, unmalted. _

= - Mr. N. VANSITTART said, that the. principal
objet of his Motibn was to assimilate the Law of
the United Kingdom,
Mr. ROSE did not think that one-third of the
Barley Used in the Distilleries was damaged ; and
he doubted much whether 26,000 .quarters of da-
maged. Barley were'. used in that, way. A Paper
had, he said, been put into his.hand, by a respetta-
hie 'Magistrate, staring, that the stoppage of the
Distilleries had occasioned a loss of soo,oool. to
the Public Revenue: he did nor by any means think.
so, but conceived that nearly, if not-quite as much,
had arisen to the Revenue from the distillation from.
Molasses and Sugar. as before. He thought it. an,
erroneous opinion that the Distilleries did not af-,
feo the market. Almost all of them were near the
Capital, and nearly all the Barley Wanted for those
Distilleries was purchased in the Metropolis. This
necessarily had the effeet of raising the market in
the Capital, by which means all the other markets
in the kingdom were affeaed. He did not wish,
he , said, to press any thing upon the House, but
merely io mike a plain, naked- statement. •
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER and me:
Rosa severally explained._
TAt:SPEAKER submitted to the House whether,
as there,was an Aft in Ireland relative to this sub.
jea., it ought not to be explained.'
Mr. CORRY said,. there had usually been an.
A& passed every year in Ireland to prohibit the
distillation of .Spirits from any grain except Malt'.
This prohibition however not having beeri renewed,
distillation might at the present moment
,take place
in Ireland from all sorts of grain.—Leave was given,
Mr. N. VANSITTART shortly afterwards brought
up the Bill, which was read a first time, and Ordered
to be read a second time to-morrow.

The Exchequer Bills Funding Bill, and the Pro.
vision Exportation Prohibition Bill, were read a
third time and passed..;
The House in a Committee on the Exchequer
Bills Bill, and the Prize c.oods Bill.—Report to.
morrow.

The Organzine Silk. Bill was read a second time,
and committed for to-morrow.

colonel STANLEY presented a Petition from the
Prisoners cor.fined for Debt, in Lancaster .Castle,
praying for Relief, which wa4 ordered to lie on. the
Table,

, The' Committees of Supply and Ways and Means
were deferred till Monday.

.Miet4ne.d at a Quarter before Six.

H T

U, N.

SOL= SZVIS DICX,RX 1,4L51141 AVDZAT

~10'11 DON, DECEMBER.S, xBor.

WE this morning received Paris.Paperf to the
2d inst. Their arrival we may henceforth expert`
to be regular, •and,on stated days. The Moniteur
of the Ist instant contains the following notice
44 The Public,are informed, that the reciprocal
Correspondenmce,betW;een the French Republic and
England is re-establiSlecl, from the Ist Frirnaire
(zzd Nov.). Letters for England are to be. 4ent
off every day, but prrticularly on Tziesdays and Sa..
turdays (old stile), from, Paris for Calais, whence
they are to be forwarded to Dover. Letters and
packets are to be franked from the Osce of the
place whence they are sent to Calais. Those which
are not so, are laid aside, Conformably to the rep-.
lations made."

The return to the Christian mode of calculating
time in the Above notice, gives us i-eason to hope
that the extended Commercial Intereourze which a
Peace with this Country will procure, tc; Franee,
may be the means of bringing back the French to
adopt the `same Calendar as we employ ourselves.
The French Government have at length published
the account transmitted to them by Gen. MEtiotr,
of the Surrender of Alexandria. The Articles of
Capitulation are preceded by an account of the pro-
ceedings of the Council of War convoked by the
French General previously to the surrender. This.
Council recommended the Capitulation; and it dis-
covers trwent.y.one reasons for this, as honourable to
our Army as any testimonials they have received.
The fall of Cairo 'i; ituch blamed, as unexpeaed
and extraord',nfiry, 'and General IV4riot.r himself
11
adds, as unnecessary. The length• of this 4?aper
precludes its insertion in our Columns of this day,
but it shall appear on Monday.

The Sittings of the Legislative Body have been
dedicated to harangues on the different Treaties of
Peace concluded by the Republic. In the Sitting
of the z9th FLEURIEU presented that con‘luded
between France and Russia; and Dt., FE amoNT on
the following day presented that between Portugal
and Fr4nce. A Speech from both those-Members,
enlarging on the advantages of those Treaties, was
all the proceedils which tool; place on the occa_

sion.
Accounts from Holland state, that from the gth
to the list ult. their Coast iiaal bcen dreadfully