The Sun.
London, England, 1837-04-22 00:00:00

with respect to the Spanish Government. It cannot,
evidently, at least before the majority of the Queen over-
come the difficulties which are inherent in its position
and character ; but in leaning on support for us our present
co-operation ought not to be an isolated act, but the first
step which we shall take in a new system. It is absolutely
necessary, even while treating Spain as a perfectly indepen-
dent State, to retain her many years under our guardian-
ship. It is only by such a proceeding that she shall be
enabled to undertake a real reform in her laws and her
morals—to effect a calm in the violent passions which fer-
ment in her bosom—and to prepare for herself a future con-
dition of peace and prosperity." Such was the extract
quoted by M. Guizot in the Chamber of Deputies from a
despatch of M. de Reyneval. In the same way, if the
British Government interfered it must have power in the
Spanish Government for years, as the French Ambassador
recommended to his Government. Who would deny that
to effect internal peace, the operations of internal Govern-
ment were of great importance, and how could we hope
to effect the one without taking part in the other ?
The treaty, in fact, imposed on the Government here

the necessity of taking a very distinguished part in
the internal Government of Spain if we hoped to ren-
der it effectual.—(Hear, hear.) To the Government
here were already to be attributed much of what had lately
occurred in Spain. To their charge were to be placed the
confiscations of the Church property, and the driving abroad
of the inhabitants of the religious houses, perhaps to desti- ,
tution and death. Would this wise measure be acknow-

ledged by Noble Lords opposite ? The Government were
attempting an object perfectly unattainable, and he might

. _ .
add, perfectly unprecedented, in history. It was true We
had interfered formerly in the pacification of Greece. We

had drawn an imaginary line, and said, " You shall not pass
it, or if you do, we shall drive you back." The same plan
was pursued with respect to Holland and Belgium, not that
the dispute between these two countries was settled—far
from it, it remained exactly in the same state as before.
But here, also, the Government drew an imaginary line,
and said, " If you pass it a single step, we will at once at-
tack you." In the affairs of Spain, however, the case was

. . .
different, for there was no dispute about the boundaries ;
the object in view was solely to expel an individual. With
respect to the object of the Quadruple Treaty, he denied

that it was therein stated to be the expulsion of Don Car-
los. It had been hinted that it was now become necessary
to form a sort of union of the Southern nations against the
Northern powers. But if this was the object of the Govern-
ment—if they alleged this most important result as the
aim of their present designs and operations—why entrust
the attainment of that object to so small a force as four
hundred of the Marines?—(Hear.) 'Why not, in taking
a course so materially affecting all the great political inte-
rests of Europe, proceed at once boldly and openly ?--
(Hear.) He would say—" Spread wide your banner !
Assemble us all under it. Let us at least have the glories
of war, but do not deprive us of the securities of peace."
—(Hear, hear.) If it was necessary to form that sort of
union against those Powers (and let not Noble Lords for-
get that we were now in close alliance with them) (et it not
be done in this dastardly, underhanded manner. If that
course was resolved on, let the mode of proceeding be con-
sonant to the magnitude of the object to be attained. But
the course now pursued by the Government was of that
nondescript and unsatisfactory kind that it was equally
blamed, though perhaps on varying grounds, by persons of
all political parties.—(Cries of " Hear.") And then the No-
ble Lord really showed himself most ungrateful for the for-
bearance of the friends of the cause of Don Carlos. It ought
to be borne in mind that the right of Don Carlos as opposed
to that of the Queen, was at le,;st a matter of doubt—that
the law of succession under which that Prince claimed had
stood the test of centuries, and that it had only been
shaken by that act of his late brother as to the legality of
which men entertained conflicting opinions—and that it
was, therefore, clearly the right of any independent State
to acknowledge Don Carlos as the Monarch of Spain if it
thought fit—that each of those States was as free to afford
aid to Don Carlos as we were to afford it to the Sovereign
de facto. It should, moreover, not be forgotten, that if any
towards us existed among those Northern Powers,
it had been almost solely caused by this treaty now under
discussion. Ile (Lord Aberdeen) was far from stating that
circumstances might not arise in which it would be desirable
to adopt a more decided course of foreign policy than that
which had been acted on by the present Government ;
though he was equally far from thinking that such an oc-
casion would be likely to arise, or that it would be desir"
able should it so arise. But here we had made ourselves
auxiliaries in a war in which not only we had no interest,
in which it was not pretended that our safety or the safety
of Spain was in the least concerned—a war of a disgrace'
ful and brutalising character, almost unparalleled in Chris.
tian annals. No war, in his opinion, was justifiable, ei"
cept either a war immediately in self-defence, or one in
which the interests were of such magnitude as to fairly
bring it under that description.—( Hear, hear.) Now be
(Lord Aberdeen) would not affect to be more squeamish
than others in the matter of warfare ; but he must say that
for us to make ourselves auxiliaries in a war of so bru-
talising a kind was incurring a heavy responsibility. Then
let the Noble Lords opposite pause and consider—let them
weigh well the advice given them—let them at once aban-
don their line of policy, and restore the contest to the state
in which they found it.—(Cheers.) What was the public
feeling ? He did not allude to the manifestation made in
the course of an important discussion in another place,
where the policy of the Government had been sanctioned
by a majority which might be satisfactory or might not (for
some of those who composed it had not attempted to dis-
guise their opinions ;) but he asked the Noble Lord who"'
ther there was not in all classes a feeling of disgust at our
being in any way connected with a contest of this descrir
tion, for the attainment of an object which could not in the
least degree add to the honour of the country ? There
could be no doubt as to the state of public opinion.
The Earl of MINTO said that he rose to answer the
appeal which had been made to him by the Noble Dude*
The Noble Lord had spoken of the British force in Spa's
under Lord John Hay being nominally under that Noble
Lord's command, but being virtually under Gen. Evans Or
the Queen's officers ; and the Noble Lord asked what as
surance had we, looking to the conduct of the Queen 0'
Spain's party, that our Marines might not be exposed t°
the same fatal calamity which had befallen the troops of the
British Auxiliary Legion. Now he was very anxious it.;
state, in the first place, that the King's forces under Lot
John Hay never had been, in the slightest degree, either'
directly or indirectly, under the authority of a Span's.ll
officer ; that Lord Hay acted entirely on his own responor
bility, and he had every assurance that such had recently
been the case. With regard to the assurances which 118
might have as to the degree of risk to which these Per
sons might be exposed, in co-operating with the are.
of General Evans, the assurance he felt was, that_ ,tn,it
force was under the command of one of the best and alxle'a
officers of the navy ; and upon that gallant, prudent, 014
able officer, their Lordships' House and the country trig
firmly rely.—( Hear.) But the Noble Duke had read
passage from a letter of a Noble Lord (Lord Ranelreri;
in which he intimated that the British squadron in 13abno
river kept up•the character of neutrals, whilst they 14;ebe
actively co-operating with the forces of Spain. He ktbe
Earl of Minto) thanked the Noble Duke for giving bite' tra
opportunity of setting the House right ; and he was Ito
the Noble Duke would feel rejoiced when he told him tP
there was no foundation for this statement. The IClago,
forces in Bilboa river acted openly as belligerents, 'ric
operating with the Queen of Spain's troops. The conv,„_eer,
in the vicinity of the river was first fortified and tailia
wards garrisoned by the troops under Lord John Hay, 13_0
they kept up a daily fire. Our vessels in the river no
frequently exposed to the fire of the Carlists, as were °x
boats which carried British colours which were realijor
communications. There was no foundation for the the
picion that those officers who were employed la 1104,
King ben4's ships would shelter themselves under a nentrtiov
On the contrary, they appeared there as open 01
rents. Another point to which the Noble Earl whos(
_D
last addressed their Lordships had thought proper to eird
their Lordships' attention was the excessive anon: the
marines which had been attached to the body comPeelnb the
crews of these ships. It was, and always bad beenioyed
invariable rule that the number of marines to be en3P'tore
in any squadron or fleet was taken according to the 0001
of the service. So far was this from being an 'Toe
course, that he believed there was hardly ever
tit. tro
which a force was likely to be employed in a peee ',ober
dertaking of this nature in which an extraordinarY thou'
of Marines were not employed. He could mention .
bg
sands of instances in which this had been done, but
would not fatigue their Lordships by detailing theniti•der
had been done in the case of Algiers ; but thefbre.eierable'
the command of Lord John Hay was more consi_ure were_
perhaps, than some Noble Lords imagined. The
(us we understood) two divisions of the fleet, several
eaeesi
of war, &c., being engaged. Therefore, if it sve_.'oula to
o
sary to show the amount of marines employed, it it 't
be found so disproportionate as Noble Lords bell%‘, key
be. He wished to put the matter on another foot.' t 0
in all cases where services of this description vcri.ea't
executed it was always the practice to attach wbitea with
not be called a land force, but a large force COm
a body of Sappers and Miners. 'r
or
lit
ships, but in so low a tone of voice, that main Tier,,.
tb,
Viscount MELBOURNE rose to address their pry
liminary observations were inaudible in the 6'41_1 o'de, ej
reference to some obstrvations which had
Noble Viscount said he believed that almost ee
energy /7,
prince owed the crown which he wore to the must *Jo
interposition of the British Government. d
stoo
rnent r
that he did not think the British Govern war o
o_ce,
high in its character since the termination of
assist"_,o
conclusion of the peace, when its services
.4)1. hear re.
I were required. But he was a little surprised_t
f that
things which had been stated in the course o
beevuer - ere': A