The Sun.
London, England, 1837-11-22 00:00:00

ELECTION PETITIONS.

Mr. C. W. W. W YNN inquired of Lord J. Russell what
course he intended to pursue with respect to election petitions.
Lord J. RUSSELL said he intended to propose to the
House, that no election petition be taken before the holidays.
He did not intend to propose that the House should come
to that resolution now, it not being a convenient time to
consider that question. He should therefore now move that the
first election petition be considered on the 12th of December
next, merely fixing that day for the purpose of proposing the
adjournment of that and other petitions to a future day, with
the view of their being considered after the holidays.--
Agreed to.
The petitions against the returns from Salford, Ipswich,
Canterbury. Belfast, Petersfield, Bridgnorth, Sligo, Bristol,
Honiton, Marylebone, and Longford (county) were accord-
ingly postponed for consideration till the 12th December.
THE ADDRESS.

Lord LE VE SON brought up the Report of the Com-
mittee appointed to frame an Address in answer to her Ma-
jesty's most Gracious Speech.
Mr. LEADER, on the Report on the Address being
brought up, said—l have some observations to oiler on one
portion of it, which I abstained from making last night, as
I did not wish to interfere with the tenor of the debate.
But some mention of the _subject now becomes the more
necessary, since the declaration of the Noble Lord,
the Member for Stroud, that he would not consent to
a reform in the representative system—a declaration which
has taken from us all hope. It was ill-timed and most fatal to
the Administration of which the Noble Lord is a member, and
he must not he surprised if it deprives them of the confidence
of the representatives of the people. —(Hear.) The eager joy
displayed by the party opposite at that declaration must have
convinced the Noble Lord of these facts. They hail him as a
partisan to that compact which they consider for ever binding
on the two sections of the aristocracy, but which has not been
ratified by the sanction of the people.—(Laughter from the
Opposition.) Sir, sneering allusions are made to the
restless desire of change, and ridicule is thrown upon the idea
of a reform of the Reform Act. Sir, to that I answer,
that a people never ask for change through the
mere desire of change—( Hear, hear, hear) but because
they find their situation uneasy.—(oh, oh, from the Tory
earnestlyßenches.)
unless A
sapteh
people, I say, never ask for change eagerly and
find their situation intolerable.—(Che,ers
e'ey

from the Liberal benches.) And as to the ridicule thrown
upon the Reform of the Reform Act, I say that the people arc
as determined to have that Reform as they were determined to
have the Reform Bill itself. 'l'hcy succeeded in that, why
should they fail now ?—( Here the Hon. Member paused for a
few seconds, which gave rise to ironical cheers from the Tory
benches, amongst which the voice of Col. Sibthorp was re-
markable.) Sir (continued the lion. Member), lam neither
surprised or disturbed by the ironical cheers of lion. Gentle-
men opposite.—( Hear, hear.) I believe, Sir, that the popular
party nowhere is England has now any hope of popular mea-
sures from the present Government ; and if their wishes are
treated with indifference by the Noble Lord and his col-
leagues, what can he expected from the Noble Lord by the
people of a country who have less claim upon his attention
and less power to enforce their claim ?—( I leas. ) The debate
of last night has rendered imperative on me the introduction
of the subject to which I am about to advert, and I regret that
it should have fallen into my bands. That subject is the state
of Louver Canada.—( Loud cries of Oh, oh ! answered by
partial cheers.) Sir, it is not that. country alone that is inte-
rested in this subject; but I wish to show the House that
►esistance on the part of the Government to the just wishes
of the people can drive a quiet, moral, and peaceable people
almost into open revolt. I trust that the example will not
be lost upon her Majesty's Government.—( Hear, hear, from
several of the Irish Members.) My Hon. and Learned Friend,
who was so long the able, honest, and eloquent advocate of the
rights of Lower Canada, is no longer in this House.—( A laugh
from the Tories. ) I deeply feel his loss, and the loss which the
Liberal party, not only in Canada, but throughout the empire,
sustains in his absence from the Hons.,. In undertaking to
introduce this subject, I do not attempt to fill his place, but
simply to bring the condition of the people of Lower Canada
bet;tre the consideration of the House—a subject which has
been frequently brought forward with unrivalled energy and
eloquence by my Hon. Friend who is now absent. Allusion
has been made in the Speech from the Throne to
the subject of Canada—( Hear, hear,)—and the Noble Lord
( Lord John Russell) has been pleased to tell us that conciliatory
measures will be proposed ; but what conciliatory measures may
Canada expect from that leader of this House who positively
tells us that he will resist to the utmost the wishes of the peo-
ple of this country, that he will not give here the redress
which the people of Canada demand in reforming their
representation.—( Great Cheering, and cries of " Oh,
oh f')--That is the demand of the people of this country, and
nowhere more than in the counties.—("Oh I" from Tories. )
Yes, and Hon. Gentlemen opposite will be told that by the
almost unanimous voice of the counties themselves.—( Vehe-
ment cries of " No, no.") The resolutions of last session were
said to be conciliatory, and we must suppose that the con-
ciliatory measures of this session will be of the same character.
If the Noble Lord who proposed these resolutions ever had a
hope of their having any good effect, he must have been
much disappointed—he must now feel that his estimate of
Canadian endurance was sadly erroneous. The resolutions
were received in Canada as they deserved to be—
with indignation and bitter animosity. The House
of Assembly had asserted their just rights, and had
declared that they looked upon the resolutions as unconstitu-
tional and tyrannical. The people of Canada having lost all
hopes of obtaining justice from England, now declared that
their only hope was in separation from the mother country.
The Noble Lord perhaps thought that the Canadian people,
being a quiet and peaceable race, would take the insult quietly ;
but he must now be cured of that false opinion. When these
resolutions were under consideration, the Noble Lord (Stan-
ley) had taunted the Government that though they showed
their teeth they were afraid to bite ; and that taunt had not
been without its baneful effect, for there bad since then been
much persecution on the part of the Government. Many
meetings had been held in Canada, at which the Resolutions
were much condemned. Many of those who attended were
deprived of their Commissions of the Peace. Some had been
prosecuted : one in particular had indictments preferred
against him before the Grand Jury, who ignored them ;
but the Attorney-General for Canada, not satisfied with
the conduct and finding of the Grand Jury, caused an ex
officio information to issue against the same individual.
That was one of the most tyrannical and vexatious proceed-
ings, and at the same time the most imprudent proceeding, that
could be had recourse to. The Canadians were, at the pre-
sent moment, in a state almost of revolt. That the House
might see that he was not at all exaggerating the unhappy
state of that country, he would read two or three
extracts from documents he had in his possession.—(l-I•ar.)
They had been told in the last Parliament, that the question
in Canada was between the English and the French Cana-
dians, and had nothing to do with the discussion of popular
rights. In order to show that that was not the case, and
that the English and Americans in Upper Canada feel for
the Lower Canadians, and would act with them,
_ _ _

he would read the proceedings that had taken place at
Lanark, in Upper Canada, where the people went about
armed, in order to protect themselves. At that meeting
it was resolved that the resolutions of the Noble Lord were
unjust, and they were denominated the atrocious reso-
lutions brought forward by Lord John Russell--(Loud
cries of " Hear, hear")—and it was further resolved that
those who submitted to such oppression were unworthy the
name of freemen. The meeting determined to make com-
mon cause with the Lower Canadians. At Whitchurch, in
Upper Canada, the resolutions were received with hatred
and abhorrence, and the Meeting determined if Lord John
Russell expressed his determination to adhere to the resolutions,
that they would support the Lower Canadian!. At Bahia.
similar meetings had taken place, and similar resolutions had
been come to. Such was the manner in which the Noble

Lord's conciliatory resolutions were viewed by the British po-
pulation of Upper Canada. It was desirable in all provinces
subject to another country, that the Governor should be viewed
with respect and admiration. Was that, he would ask, the
case in Lower Canada ? Certainly not—( Hear)—for at
a Meeting held there it was resolved that Lord Gosford
had declared himself, by the course of conduct he had pur-
sued, to be an enemy of Lower Canada, and that he had dis-
graced himself by the deceit and duplicity with which he had
acted ; and the only act for which they would have to thank him
would be his departure from that country. They had been
told that the Canadians would have confidence in the
Parliaments of this country, as they were convinced that
they would do Canada justice. The resolutions, however,
which had been brought forward by the Noble Lord, and
which had been adopted by the House, had taken away all
such confidence, and the Canadians were now convinced that
they had not much to expect either from the Noble Lord or
the Parliament of this country.--( Hear, hear, and cheers. )
The following passage was from an Address to the Sons of
Liberty in the North American Provinces, and he intrcated
the attention of Hon. Members to it, because it showed more
than anything else could the feelings of the Lower Canadians
towards the English people. It was to the effect that the
present degrading situation of their country being the result
of mistaken reliance on British honour, it would be criminal
in them to confine their resistance to simple remonstrance.—
( Hear, hear, hear.) A separa,ion had commenced be-
tween parties Khich would never be cemented, but
which would go on increasing until one of those sudden
and unforeseen events, which followed the march of time, af-
forded a fitting opportunity to them for assuming their rank
among the communities of America. The Address concluded
with these words, " Two splendid opportunities have been
lost, let us not be unprepared for the third." Ile ( Mr. Leader)
thought these words might be applied to the people of Eng-
land. Two splendid opportunities for obtaining a system of
real representative Government had been lost by the people
of England, and lie sincerely trusted and hoped they would not
let slip the next occasion that might present itself.—( Hear. )
Tney were told when the resolutions were discussed in tl.at
House last Session, that the Canadians were such a patient
and enduring people, that they would never think of fighting,
and that they would never dare to oppose the power of Eng-
land. Did the House know what the determination of the

Canadians now was ? At the permanent Co►xmittee it had
been resolved that the Reformers who bad been to drill should

form themselves in each parish in volunteer companies of
militia, under the command of officers elected by militia
officers. There were also constant allusions in the American

Papers to the American war of independence, and to the
manner in which the American troops fought against our troops
there ; there were also constant allusions to the disasters of

13urgoyne, and the numerous disasters that disorganised the
British armies in the American war of independence. In
the Vindicator, of the 6th of October, there was
the follow•i passage :—." The 83:1 Regiment, it is reported,

is to he stati;i.ed at-Three Rivers during the winter—where
will they be in the spring ?" Those words were repeated on
several occasions whenever there was any allusion to the
movement of troops, or to the purchase of horses or artillery
—the same warning was always given—" where will they be
in the spring ?" After the declaration made by the Noble
Lord last night, those words seemed to be very applicable to
the present condition of Ministers. Where will they be in
the spring ?—( Laughter, and Hear, hear.) Not in their
present condition as a Reform Ministry, independent of Tory
support.—( Hear, hear.) He wished that the country and
that House should be acquainted with the real state of Lower
Canada ; therefore, at the earliest possible opportunity,
he had introduced the subject. It was unfortunately the curse
of this country to be involved in disgraceful wars with her co-
lonies through the injudicious conduct of the Executive.—
( Hear, hear.) He trusted that if there were to be
any conciliatory measure it would fully satisfy the Cana-
dians; but nothing could satisfy them except the withdrawal
of the resolutions, and acquiescence in their just demands.
This he feared could not be expected from the present Go.
vernment.—( Hear, hear.) If the rest of the Ministers meant
to abide by the declaration of the Noble Lord last night,
against all further improvement in the representative system, he
L.) would tell them that their tenure of office as a liberal
Ministry would be short indeed.— (Bear, hear.) lie la-
mented this for the sake of the Ministers themselves, for he
had hoped better things of them.—( Laughter.) The Noble
Lord (J. Russell) smiled at the idea of his (Mr. Leader)
hoping anything good of him.—( Laughter.) lie (M..
Leader) could assure the Noble Lord, however, that he had
hoped in this Parliament the Government would have intro-
duced really popular measures, and listened to the prayers of
the people for the redress of their grievances, and the cry of
the constituency for protection from the influence of corruption
and intimidation which had almost driven them to despair.
Loud cheers.) He lamented this the more for the
temporary impediment that it might throw in the way of peace-
ful and calm reform.—( Cheers.) Above all, he regretted it
for the sake of Ireland, for in that portion of the country alone
had the present Ministry done real good—had conferred real
benefit on the people.—(Cheers.) But whatever might be
the result of the loss of power by the present Ministry, he re-
peated that it was utterly impossible fur them long to remain
in office as a liberal Government, if they abided by the resolu-
tion of the Noble Lord to resist all Reform of the Reform
Act.—( Cheers. )
Mfr. C. BU LLE R said he wished to call the attention of
the Elena© not simply to the Speech from the Throne, but to the

I unfortunate debate of lest night, every part of which, as a Refor-
i mer and friend to the Government, he deeply regretted. —( Loud
Cheers.) He had shown them how enthetly he disapproved
of the speech made by the Honourable Member for Finsbury
who had chosen last night, in &Renee of the request of those
who were quite as sincere supporters of Parliamentary
Reform as himself, to bring forward the question in a
manner, which even almost all the few who voted for it
d (dared to be unseasonable and detrimental to those Reforms.
Sir, it would be very difficult. with any kind of grace; regard
being had to all the absurdity that took dace last night,
to give the palm to any particular person. Ile generally
judged that a person on his side of the House committed a
blunder, when what he stated was met with approbation by
the other side of the House. Applying this test it was ex-
tremely difficult to decide which received the greatest ap-
plause from the Tories-e-the Hon. Member far Finsbury, or
the Noble Member for Stroud —( Hear, and laughter.) There
was this difference, however, between the two, that there was
no imnruilecce which the Noble Lord could commit that did
not iufliet the greatest damage on the Reform Bill, and bit-
, terly disappoint the hopes of the people. He differed from
many of the opinions expressed lest night by the Noble Lord,
but he differed much more from him upon the point of the pro.
priety and prudence of the tone and temper with which he took
what had been stated by the lion. Member for Finsbury, and
declared his unalterable determination not to amend or
carry out any further the Reform Bill. From the tone
and temper of the Noble Lord, who was not soon moved
to excitement, it appeared to him that the Noble Lord
had only wanted a pretext for quarrelling with a great
number of those by whom he had heretofore b •en supported.
•—•( Cheers.) He was sorry to be obtiged to say this, and
he hoped the Nehle Lord would yet give him and those
around him reason to thick otherwise; bat if the. Noble Lord
was determined to take this course, he did right in avow-
ing it.—( Cheers, and cries of " Hear, hear.") If he was
tired of the assistance of those who had borne him jute office,
he was right in tie owing away the orange after he had been
refreshed from its juice. He (Mr. B.) only hoped he was on
with the other side of the House before he was off with the
side on which he was on:--(Hear.) But if he preferred the
tenure of office by sufferance from the other side, rather than
from the support of those who had hitherto supported him,
he was certainly at liberty to make his own choice, only
let the Reformers of England judge.--(Cheers. )—The
Reformers of England would judge, and would feel deep
indignation at those who brought the other side of the
House into power--( Hear, hear)—and the people would
know that it was not the fault of the Reformers on his
side of the House, but the fault of the Noble Lord hiteself.
Ile must say, and by this he begged not to be understood as
being at all personal to the Noble Lord, that the
language of the Noble Lord, with • respect to two of the guts-
tions which he was pleased to denounce last , night,
surprised him very much.—( Hear, hear.) When the Noble
Lord wanted the support of the advocates of the Ballot, he
held a different language towards them. The Noble Lord,
when he brought forward the Reform Bill in alluding to the
Septennial Bill and the Ballot, took a very different tone indeed.
Instead of then talking of the finality of the Reform Bill,
he said that those other questions to which he had alluded
would remain open to debate ; but by his declaration of
last night, the Noble Lord had violated that pledge.
Did the Noble Lord suppose, that if in that nicely balanced
Parliament he had held such language as he had used last
night towards the supporters of the Ballot, ha or his col-
leagues would have held office for one hour ?—( Hear, hear.)
This was evident from the admissions even of tne opposite
party. When the Ministry relied on the number of peti-
tions presented in favour of the Reform Bill, why the
taunt of the Right Honourable Baronet and his supporters
was that nearly all the petitions that were presented in favour
of Reform, included a prayer for the *Ballot.—( Ilear, hear.)
Indeed it was a matter that no one could deny, for on
the petitions being separated it was found that nearly
ten to one of the petitions presented for Reform included the
Ballot.—( Hear.) He was satisfied that nothing had occurred
since then to alter the minds of the people with respect to that
question. I may offend (said Mr. B.), as, indeed, I believe
I have before offended, the Noble Lord and his Colleagues by
the declaration which lam about to make. He said it, how-
ever, gravely and deliberately, and after mature considera-
tion—namely, that the Reform Bill, as it worked during the
three last elections, was an inadequate test of public opinion.—
(Opposition cheers.) That the quantity of demoralization, cor-
ruption, and intimidation which it had given rise to- was such,
that it was impossible for any civilized community to go on
under such a barbarous system.—( Ironical cheers and laughter
from the Opposition.) Hon. Gentlemen opposite might laugh,
for they ought to be proud of the uses to which they had turned
the Reform Bill. It would remain, however, with the people
of England to decide how long they had to laugh at the exis-
tence of such an abuse.—( Hear.) He stood on the principle
of the Reform Bill ; he wanted not its letter but its spirit.
Did the Noble Lord and the Right Hon. Baronet suppose
that the people in the support they gave the Reform Bill,
gave their support to Schedules A or B, or any of the details ?
—( Hear, hear, hear.) He emphatically denied that the
people gave their ardent support to the principle laid
down by Earl Grey, that we should not have nomination but
representation.—( Cheers.) Now there was in existence a
worse system of nomination than prevailed before the Reform
Bill. He meant that the nomination was placed in more hands
than before, but they had not the responsibility to public
opinion which prevailed under the old system.—( Cheers.)
He ( Mr. Buller) was quite willing to leave it to
the country to decide, whether those who thought
with him that the Reform Bill ought to be amended were
Destructives or not. On such a question he cared not for
the opinion of the Right Hon. Member for Tamworth, because
however wellihe might be acquainted with politics, he had never
yet been able to understand the feelings of the people. Not
one great principle had he taken up from which he had not
been driven by the feelings of the people.—( Loud cheers.)
Throughout his life he had been the able and eloquent but the
most inflexible opponent of every species of . Reform.--(Con-
tinued cheers.) He had no wish to embarrass her Majesty's
Government—(Cheers)—but he wanted particularly to shew
the country that there were in that House asore than 20 Mem-
bers who were their friends. He wanted to shew that there were
many more than the twenty who voted last night who were in
favour of an extension of the franchise—he wanted to show
that there were more than twenty in that House who would
give protection to the voter.—( Loud and repeated cheers.)
The Noble Lord had not merely. objected to great and sweep-
ing changes, but he put the very worst construction upon his
own words..--( Hear, and " No, no.") He must say that the
Noble Lord had fallen into an error of presumption as great as
that which the Duke of Wellington committed in 1830, if after
the result which he had witnessed from the declaration of the
Noble Duke, he tells the people of England that he will not
extend to them the reform which they demand—that he will
not extend the Suffrage to the great body of the people—in a
word, that there shall be no Representative Government.—
( Cries of " Oh, oh," and cheers )
Lord J. RUSSELL then rose and said—Sir, I feel it ne-
cessary to answer the lion. Gentleman in respect to two
points to which lie has adverted—( Hear, bear)—not only
in respect to the subject before the House, but also in re-
spect to the allusion which the Hon. Member has made
relating to myself. —( Hear.) Sir, with respect to myself, I
must say that I very much regret that the Hon-. Gentleman,
who, in the latter part of his speech made the admission, that
what I had said must be t,lsett with some qualification should say
that in my speech of last night I sought occasion to quarrel
with my own supporters, and that I was seeking excuses for
an alliance with another party. Now, Sir, I must say that a
more base imputation could not be cast on the
conduct of any public man, and Sir, in the face of the House
and the country, I must say emphatically that the imputation is
u tterly unfounded.—( Cheers.) The Hon. Gentleman is
right in stating that, when I spoke last night it was not
altogether from the impulse of the moment, or without pre-
meditation, but that I had considered beforehand what was
likely to occur in the debate on the Address. I had duly
considered what was most likely to occur, and I came
to the determination that if the debate should be confined
to the topics of the Speech from the Throne, I
should
not throw out any allusion to topics upon which there
might exist the least possible difference of opinion—
( Hear)—and which might be introduced by some of those
Gentlemen on this side of the House, who have given the
Government the most disinterested and honourable support
during the time that we have had the honour of holding the
seals of office. But my determination also was that if topics
were introduced, which I had every reason to suppose
would be introduced, and upon which I could not fail to have
a strong opinion—if topics which I disapproved of, such as
propositions for entertaining questions which I think can-
not be entertained without inflicting injury then it
was my intention, whatever imputations might be cast
upon me, and whatever obloquy I might incur, not to withhold
the avowal of my opinions.—( Loud cheers.) Sir, I know
not whether the House will agree with me, but certainly as far
my impression went, and as far as my intention went, I did
think the speech of the Hon. Member for Finsbury and the Hon.
Member for Leeds, and indeed of the speech of the Hon.
Member for Kilkenny, were speeches as offensive—( Great
cheering)—as well could be made by gentlemen in this House,
who pretended to that character.—( Cheers.) I did likewise
and, as far as my interest was concerned, I will answer for it,
in my reply to them—l did not mix up anything of a personal
nature, but I confined myself to subjects of general
interest.—( Hear, hear.) Well, Sir, but it seems that those
opinions are opinions which the Hon. Member who spoke last,
and some of the other Honourable Members who spoke last
night, say will be injurious to the Government—( Cheers. )
Now I must say that I am not at all satisfied with the tone
which gentlemen very often adopt in professing friendly
counsel to the Government—(Cheers)—always basing it
upon the topic that such a course of policy was the only
one to pursue to ensure the stability of the Government.—
( Cheers.) Ido not pretend, far from it, to say that lam
indifferent to the continuance of the Government in office.—
(Cheers.) Ido not make any professions that I wish to hold
office, or retire into private life—( Hear, and cheers)—but this
Ido hope, if the question is between a continuance in office
or between being pressed and forced into opinions which I do
not avow—(Cheers)—and supporting .measures which I think
would be injurious and destructive to the country, I do hope
I may at least be removed from the imputation of making a dis-
honourable choice.--(Loud and continued cheering.) Well
then, Sir, what was the grcat,topic of debate last night ? It was
a topic that was forced on wantonly, and a topic which by no
means belonged to the other topics in the speech of the Sove-
reign, or in the answer which should be made to that speech.
Th different questions mooted last night might at any time have
been brought forward in the shape of a Bill or motion ; and
there can be no doubt that they would then have received a
dispassionate consideration; but brought forward as they were,
and being obliged, as I conceived, to enter into that discus-
sion, 1 did not conceal from the House my opinion
upon them.—( Cheers.) The Hon. Gentleman who spoke
last, the Member for Pslseard (Mr. C. Buller), seemed to

think there was an inconsistency the 013 i"
the Septennial Act and as regarded the Ballot, r .tatot
nions I gave at the time the Reform Bill was propose: mist
the
at ;be time when the Reform Bill was pronod
'eptennisl
in thine
question of the Ballot, and the question of thenit
it
wood
B:II, were not included in that Bill of liefarro ;
"(Member of
always be in the power of the Government, or of anarat Idid bops
garded
this [Liaise, to treat that question as it thought fit ; t",L , a wtern
however the House would pause before it sanctioi. at, that
which would give entire responsibility to the voiteLn. they
if they made any change in the durati mof Pai "
cenveineet
would not make that duration so short as to be to .
..5 of
•of the homes
both to the country and to the transtctions
west I sag.,
Parliament. Such, I believe, was the substance of
than discourage them, but leaving them at all eve.
sir, am
and the effect of it was to encourage those quesniitoin:prea_tufeorr
future cansidcrntion.—(' Hear, hear, hear.) Well,
now ready to declare what I thought at that
CO it might appear, that the shortening the
,lit
°ft
Parliament, and the taking of votes by
system which caul.l be safe'y introduced into our
t, e
and that in the course of the various discussions
teke place in Parliament, and its the country, that Ltill.abr.)
he the result which the Legislature might arrive atlor.. 'ruse of
But I kept my mind ready to watch the progress an ___
(lssts
events, and judge, as I thought, what was best
Sir,fur the inc
".cc'
adi
of the country, in that respect. Now, f have
to say, that with •respect to the duration of Perliame-nt boy,
always thought that three years was too short, and,
_0.1; but
repeatedly said that seven years was unnecessarily I)"
tar, ce be-
that really the question was nut of very great import, _ taking
twee', five and s( ven years. With respect likewise to ne ,o
the votes by Ballot, I do not attach so much imp ion
that question by itself as many others do. It is a tl,ite'thet
of very considerable importance; but I always theu.;,el
inetg,
one of the strongest objections to it was its probabtoscioot
eieney.—( Hear, hear.) Ido not think that by ,prioa
secu' ity can be obtained, or intimidation prevented•bects`_'.e
of " Hear, hear.") I make these observations, not u;ao.,
am going to enter further into these questions, but becau.n 'the
going to remark upon what appeared contradictoryil
d
late discussions with respect to these questions a
connected with them --(Hear, hear.) Th
those who are advocates for the Ballot say that
same time the Suffrage ought to be extended, tn"es;
say to Household Suffrage. •Well, then, if it were ,it
tended to Household Suffrage, would it be advisable to baye
c
extended to the small boroughs ? A gentleman who gavexl7,
- -c greater tanitrttu°:,
dence before the Intimidation Committee, of considerable
u...0e0
rience and sagacity, and who holds very strong opinion: 101 l
the subject, I mean Mr. Parkes, states that in tb
boroughs, if the Suffrage were so extended, bribery wont° ;I%w
vail to a very great extent.—( Hear, hear, and cheers.)
Hon. Member for Kilkenny is another authority on the
ject, and he tells us that he is an advocates
srep
Household Suffrage, but observe, be considers it only as lately
to Universal Suffrage. Another gentleman, who was wed
Member for Liverpool, I mean Mr. Ewart, has address
of
a pamphlet to the public on the subject of the ref,ci.r;eo,
the Reform Bill, and the Honourable Gentle rot
the Member for Westminster, advocates very got,
changes, of which the Ballot forms a part and only l!f.Pooss,'
Now, taking all these circumstances together, even tßallot
disposed to think that these opinions in favour of the osiog
were right, I am obliged to stop and consider, suPP, thee
Parliament were to institute the vote by Ballot, would
ballot in itself form the termination of these discuss:y.7)
with respect to the constitution of this House ?--(8e.) we
The Hon. Member for Liskeard says it is desirable, when
ere
settle these questions, that it should be finally, and that tbe
should not be a perpetual recurrence to them. Now this IS be.
doctrine that all Hon. Gentlemen would de disposed to adopt,_"cf
cause it is the doctrine of common sense, in order that the tinlto
Parliament may be devoted to partial reforms with regar'7:oo
the state, to finance, and other matters. That is the doetr' if
of all those who consider that the time of ParliamentL.t
occupied in continual constitutional changes, must be dos
to those other useful, effectual, and practical reforbo ...
Why, then, agreeing with the Hon. Gentleman that sue al,
case is not desirable, I come to the conclusion that if the P
lot were adopted alone, or if the shortening the duration °ld
Parliament were adopted alone at the present time, it w°l/0
not either so far satisfy men with regard to the Rewieto
Bill, or make it appear to them a eeln,Pn„,
act as that we should not be immediately required—ann
Itaps very rationally required--to have farther changteisio
For observing now with respect to this question of ,
Ballot itself, those who have not the Suffrage, and comp
of the limitation of the 101. Suffrage, they feel that thou of
they have not the Suffrage they have the power 4-
knowing how each of their neighbours vote ; hue„f,
very much apprehend, that if that vote were seer`ht
if the Suffrage were secret, they would then say, you arc rig e
in establishing secret Suffrage, but with that the franebis t
ought to be far more extended. I think it would be rational °‘
say so. Why then, I can hardly enter upon one of those course
without lam prepared to pursue it. I saw very lately an for
count of a meeting in the newspapers, which took place, (30
the purpose of supporting the Ballot, which ended with soill
other person taking the chair, and its being declared that du.
h
Ballot would be a delusion on the public, unless there 085 3
further extension of the Suffrage.—( Hear, hear.) I Ittn'tti
therefore, really consider those questions together, 11,1:1 t
consider myself as now speaking, not in the year 1831, nu
as speaking in the year 1837, and seeing the experience I haver
inquire whether it is, or is not, for the advantage of
that
country to adopt any one of those plans, taking for granted _
if you do so, you must re-construct the Reform Act ; that
you must extend the Suffrage ; that you must abolish, accord-
ing ing to one gentleman, many of the small boroughs; and that
you must consequently disturb, according to another, what re;
quires care, that harmony which exists between the agriculture"
the manufacturing, and the other interests of the country.'
(Cheers from the Tory side.) I may be entirely mistaken
that question—my views may be entirely erroneous
the evil of the present system—as Ido not think it de;
serves the epithets the Hon. Gentleman has applied to it--ho
Ido say it is better for us rather to try to amend the,
present system in its details, and to endeavour
to carry on the business of the country Odes;
the Reform Act, than it is for us to attempt anY
system of Suffrage.—(Much cheering from the Tory siee )
's
Gentlemen who reproach me by saying, we must n°o
shut our eyes to the fact, that there is a small majority ontho
other side of the House, and that it requires plans to awakes
popular enthusiasm, will understand me, when I say I an) 110 t
prepared to adopt any plans on this account on the presetif
occasion.—(Renewed cheering on the Tory benches.) d
must consider the general interests of the country as correct.° t.
here.'—( Cheers.) But if they tell me not to be blind to 00
situation in this House, I must ask them likewise not to he
blind to our situation in the country.--( Great cheering from
the Opposition.) 1 thought, and I stated it to this House
the third reading of the Reform Bill, that it would gldo
preponderance to the lauded interest. I did think, and I
think so still, that it preponderates, but that preponderance
tended to the general stability of the institutions of the countryi;
I think that if you are to frame a plan of Reform in wOe
you are to give weight only to the great towns, and 1011
out the opinions of the great landed proprietors ell
gentleman farmers, you would be introducing a sYlfr •
tern of disorder to an extent which those who were then In;
justly deprived of the franchise would never be satisfied 101_,Deo
that Government, until they had restored to them the
balance of power they were entitled to.—( Cheers.) I °T!
say I think with respect to a large portion of the landed In:,
terest—l speak not of the aristocracy, but of the e
farmers of all kinds—l do not think that even my opinion
still lest those of the lion. Member for Westminster, are Fiji
pular with them.-_( Cheers.) Therefore when we are °se.
that there is a very great opposition on the other side of to
House, although I think that there are many unfair dealing''
upon some occasions, I cannot but concede that there is t the
same time a considerable opinion, especially in the counties'''.
pinions ot
I think upon erroneous ground, but still fairly and console;
tiouslv entertained—against the measures we have propose
—(Cheers.) Looking to the future interests of the countrli
I for one, therefore, am not prepared to go into these gener,a
questions, which, I think, must make a whole and entire n,
form Act necessary.—( Cheers.) At the same time the HSI
Member misrepresents me when lie states that I said I l"rst
agree to no one alteration whatever of the Reform Act•
be it front me to have thought or stated that the Reform Ar'.,
was " one such entire and perfect chrysolite.
On the contrary, I stated last night that with respect to nude.
parts, parts, registration in particular, amendments might be mad
Ido not think any party can justly say that they will ion,
entirely upon-the Reform Act' without any kind of alterat
by
—( Ilear, hear.) /The alterations made three years age±„th
which the Justices et Quarter Sessions were empoeered,
"( Hear, hes
el
the consent of the Crown, to double, treble, and quedrlife. '
the number of the polling places is an alteration of the
form Act.—( Hear, hear.) Sir, I rose merely to state to• ley
House the reasons for which I spoke last nig )but
1 have
pained to the House the grounds upon which I acted.
__bet
seeking no coalition with any opposite party.—( Cheers) ,aie
I do feel that in the situation which I hold, in the present sissed
of the country, if I had withheld the opinions I exPre,oe.
last night, I should not have been acting as became that sit
—(Hear, bear.)
tion. I might have been reproached with culpable eve
country, I trust that baying proposed great measures,ct so
But be we or be we not the Ministers
an
f
having carried many of those measures, we shall not story
unfaithfully, and so treacherously, and so basely to the cp_urair
which has supported us hitherto, as to refuse to them at
ere--
expression of our opinions, or a free vote on behalf of the t 4
interests of the country, whenever those interests are Place
in jeopardy by any proposition of any kind whatsoever.
,r),. the
Mr. GRO.TE.—So far cs regarded the caudourne I_ool4
not possibly
Noble Lord, both last night and this night, he foreors
sut gay
find fault ; but having said so much, h.. u After
that that was all the commendation he deserved _ have
having rddressed the House last night, he would not agar ivrhich
troubled them so soon, had it not been for the manoer in had
bi gorthe Noble Lord, both on this occasion, and last nnd
hard
treated the question of the Ballot. The Noble froth the
treated that question as if it could not be separa_so„''
a molte:
other questions of the Suffrage and Triennial
Friendr (Nlrr
So far from treating them in that way, his flee-0 ositions, t.)l,
Wakley) had last night brought down his Pr, Piatigh,)--4
them,—(A as the Noble Lord called the,—(".
rs these ro
ePerrs;
three separate papers, but the Noble Lord take
I.fluglito,) quo
and throws all the powders into one. —(1-•
discl!'oble
was not the slightest necessity for such a couirwsney—; the sed
tions were clearly distinct ones, and he had a , the NI
the Ballot on its own merits, and dealing
(Mr: Gro
te) 18811
Lord ought co have done, the same. Ile s _odd thensed
given a notice of motion for the Ballot, and he le one;
etita
he had always done, discuss the question as a -ll'is
arc(' to diucs" •
he trusted the Noble Lord would then be prep.__
en the. 3
the
it on the same single grounds—he would not mix or ror to
tion of the Ballot with an extension of the Franchise,wreral
question of Triennial Parliaments, though
vote for them both. On that discussion he e the que'
ble Lord would not take an unfair adyantage
belrus!ed tbe-tiont

1

4

b,

Jv
-
eOnnec2.lg it Het others with which it had in reality no
hale "°n• trusted the Noble Lerd would meet it
jeubi t'Pon its own merits. The same arguments that the
she Ri,Lord has used now against the Ballot were applied by,
the ht Ilon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth against ,
With theform He now called on the Noble Lord to deal
the ~ c Ballet in the same manner as he dealt with it upon
4,lletuscussion of the Reform Bill.—( Hear.) He called
erhel:tlY upon him to treat it in that way, and to consider
tirei`saer after he has admitted the extent of corruption and in-
fuse°. tion that was now prevalent, whether he could safely re-
fate grant grant the Ballot ?—( Cheers.) He felt that the most
the 4°,O,sequences would result from the declaration made by
that .`me Lord last night, and which he had again reps ated
retitrinht. Ile was sure that he little knew how that decla-
lorpsa_r'ould diffuse sadness through the bosoms otall true Re-
-1.,0° % or he never would have made it.— (Cheers.) If he
irtertained the opinions he expressed, be had acted
the Y and houeurably in stating them ; but he was sure
thih e,ountry would be greatly disappointed in Ids Lord-
: If he did entertain those opinions.—( Loud cheers.)
toe,asa much rnistnken if, before long, in spite of the Noble
hiur,
c(lruoPtrer)inr,:isttachment to principles over-placed, which he
Load Tore far.from calling in question, the Noble
rahltek'd not ele suoa ground for believing that he had greatly
the ei. tbe toile of public feeling., and had greatly mistaken
exerciPncr of the demands of voters for that protection the
they of their franchise to which he (Mr. Grote) would say
e:r. 4, re most justly and legitimately entitled.—f Cheers.)
sae. ,s.l). BO RTHWICK said it was not his intention to say
""Illg on the affairs of Canada, or on any. other matter not
contain •
(The fled in the report of the address then on the table.--
s H... Member here paused for some minutes on account,
eepteureTio, of the great noise in
"the louse. At length, after
este° cries of " Go on, go on, proceeded.) The una-
the us loyalty which that address was intended to convey to
the foot of the throne had not been in any degree lesiened by
be agitated division of yesterday night, end it could not but
t 0
..e.patter of sincere pleasure to Hon. Gentlemen on his (Mr.
the:l4?eick't) side of the Ilouse to reflect that the agitaeon
(eet` disturbed that expression of conratulation to her Ma-
(l.lll_3ad neither its origin or encouragement. on their side.-
4isc:_ri. hear. ) It was not his purpose to introduce any angry
ihtb7sion, but he wished to except himself from concurrence
jest t Passage of the address which congratulated her Ma-
wetY 'Von the fulfilment of the Quadruple Treaty. He could
petersr in that passage when be found that her Majesty's
• • , • •
tewtiwere sanctioning tnings in Spain directly in contra-
ewe, on of the spirit of that Treaty. The terms of the Quad-
ehr! Treaty were simply then that England, if her assistance
assujultid be necessary to restore peace in the Peninsula, should
ti With a naval force. These terms confined the inters-en.
fr°o,,,ul England expressly to a
.naval war, and precluded her
bel,-elinterfering in the internal contest. She was to use a
11%11, f°rce to prevent the contest from spreading beyond the
of of the Peninsula. But it was not within the meaning
e Treaty that she should engage in the civil battle, which
Th. not expected to take place upon the bosom of the ocean.
1e the Lord said that he more readily
.supported the clause
ter, address because he considered Don Carlos had by his
earlt expedition forfeited all claims to the throne of Spain. Permit
Jeae:r:"...il the House to the simple facts of the case. Four
aid, _ ago Don Carlos, without money and without foreign
&..,anurrounded by about 200 in the northern provinces of
, declared his pretensions to the crown. From that time
tlr.present moment he has risen to a position which shakes
in their foundation the rival pretensions of his niece, and that
fsew,e,face of the very aid which she has received not only
nee-„;'°gland, but Portugal and France.—(Loud cries of
new;""•) These facts very clearly prove the necessity of
se , Maintaining both in letter and spirit the Treaty of Quad-
13i lei Alliance; and it is not for the purpose of recommending
noii° ation of that Treaty, or superinducing a new line of
the; ieYi that I am now addressing the House, but to secue in
leo fullness the intentions of tho then Government. Anwar
hine disgraceful to human nature never disgraced the page of
the°,lll'---(0h.) Had not their Minas and Ribeiras entered
hoiussellines of matrons ?—(oh, and much laughter.) He
besee'red these° was no one in that House who would be found
the enough to stand up and defend such practices; but
ego Position of any Government who would be found base
14,U° to maintain a Treaty of such a nature was lower and
here 2 degraded still.—(The noise in the body of the House
obit increased to such a pitch that the Hon Member was
etdiegietl„to pause for some minutes, and the Speaker repeatedly 1
his Order." The lion. Member resumed.) , Such was
tlic`a!blole position—( Great laughter)—he meant, such was
'ti7ba'itiple proposition he meant to submit.—(Hear, hear.)
pou" he recollected the artifices to which the Government ,
r resorted—when he called to mind the suspension of the, '
letese'gn Enlistment Act, and the placBrds which bad been eireu-
tem' t 0 induce men to join this expedition—he could not help
the',,rasting it with the total failure of the British Legion for I
Cr. yurPoses for which it had been organized. There was a
e 4 of " The faction" raised in reference to the Spanish quer-
raie. Yes, there was a faction in Spain which was rapidly
.ng its resources and degrading its character—a faction
iseace
still u had commenced its career in gratuitous cruelty, and
wb' continued to indulge in reckless barbarities—a faction
°se claims and career were based on injustice and pursued
tLa 'fliquitv—a faction which assumed the semblance of liberty
bide its
its tyranny, and the cover of English bravery to
e its cowardice and disgrace. Englishmen were, of course,
fY nature brave, but be must say that the character of the
eaction to which they had allied themselves in Spain was such 1
necessarily to communicate a portion of the disgrace which
conduct so thoroughly involved them in. Was it not pos-
h.°le for England to oppose Don Carlos without misrepresenting
eZa? What torrents of contemptible cant had been poured forth
poPnecieting the " odious Durango decree" and " the cruelty of
kueselrl°s'' by tbose who knew better all the time--who
Present aat the Durango decree was the law of England at the
Don C„-,4°Meet—that it was enacted in Biscay lung before
of the ;;;',!°,B was born—and that it was, at the urgent request
of :"Mitlitants put forth by him in mercy, to meet the case
of his-eruwwd of reckless- outcasts, who were, at the instigation
the Baenlies, preparing to throw themselves on the coast of
nabiteZque provinces, and carry desolation amongst their in-
of tki:"`l--it was to check, and, if possible, arrest the course .
devotedßas expedition that this ancient national law of the
-
111° people was promulgated in mercy. And when the
es R'°ll dropped on their shores, as if from the sky, in despite
but
I Prudential considerations, appearing, not as English,
nett as a horde of barbarous invaders, to take part against a
did -A in whose quarrel they had no right to interfere, what
tot '-'°n Carlos do ? As far as depended on him, he did
ewrt,e en force the decree in a single instance. After some
° remarks touching Don Carlos and this country, the
>tisri
seentleman concluded by saying he would warn Mi-
st %dil 'yrs that if they persevered in their present policy he wouldtahieh Y
oppose whatever measures they might propoie with
teth to
qu follow up their most mistaken views of the objects
mequadruple alliance.
had' r• BULLER took that opportunity of explaining that he
not meant to accuse the Noble Lord of seeking a pretext
quarrelling with the Radical Reformers; but he could
te4,,rdlY regret the misapprehension, as it Lad drawn so satisfac-
kan, explanation from the Noble Lord.—( Hear, hear.)
-Tnel EVANS said he was aware that during his absence
Be 4'442 of Spain had been frequently discussed in that
of Use, arid that in the course of those discussions observations
Id: Personal nature had been indulged in with reference to
enxisoelf and his companions in arms. But, although he was
seta 1-11 to go into the subject, still he was aware that the pre-
Wini,was not a moment when the House would be anxious or
taer,tllif,' to entertain such a discussion. He could assure, the
etip,remen on the other side he was extremely anxious fur an
;11 tunity to meet and disprove their assertions.
to err* BORTH WICK explained that his object had not been
41ip,eat0 any discussion at the present moment, and he would
to the Gallant Officer whether there was anything in
ishoe servations likely to produce it ?
naeport on the Address was agreed to.
the 1 • "CL LER moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend
Le„,,aws relating, to elections. The Bill lie wished now to
tina f °rward differed but in one particular from one of a
last Sr eheracter he had introduced last session. The Bill of
cues r''sion provided for the selection of Election Commit-
io tl, r°t° whatever number of Members could be collected ;
only d.Preseet, he had omitted that proviso. This was the
thre ifferenee. The Hon. Gentleman, after one or two fur-
Thservations concluded by moving for leave to bring in a
111e° (\amend the laws relating to elections.
the `''CONNEL IS explained why he had given notice to
Zito 7 effect. He would submit it to the House
for carried, 'alt.:ter the motion of the Hon. Member for LiskeBrd had
eice-rr.'etl• He only sought the same mode of investigation
llte-eNcl°n oetitions which decided or. our life and liberty.
I,°r Lis`' YNN was willine that the Bill of the Hon. Member
'0 an.. eaird should be brought in, but he would not consent
4115 evtiatrio4lll6°n in the mode of trial with respect to the pre-
:C°lon 1 ssi
ILetstior,e -.I3TIIORP thought that the submittal of such
le in to the Court of Queen's Bench would compromise
Nirgnite of that House.
I°,wi • 9:CONNELL said that the Gallant Colonel, in al-
tt'leen.r„ lue Bill to be brought in, would not pledge himself to
for a seemed reading; all he ( Mr. O'Connell) asked
illlmber save to bring in the Bill, and to have it printed ;
et 8 could then decid on reprobation or approval.
%WYNN -e
in run, thought it unusual to have two Bills moved
oe,i'arice of the same object..
and _
•'NEL I would alter his motion, move for
Pe .e to brim• ' •
tltion in a Bill for a new mode of trial of election
fie • -Kai granted.
rECHELL moved for leave to bring in a Bill
4ft R
p"Nis. Sherifls' Courts jurisdiction over all debts under
tUresie ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that extensive mea-
dir L
ectie aw Reform were now In preparation, under the
Litt " of the Lord Chancellor and the Judges ; and he
Isoldedl that, -under such circumstances, the Gallant Captain
,ICtiapteeninseiniittrio,postpone his motion.
on, ex •e,t-tE L I. could not consent to. postpon. e his
° of cent the Attorney-General would himself give no-
tiOir E. for the object of his motion.
serval; "IN ATC 118 ULL and Mr. WYNN made some
wilksa-61°01186.whic.h were inaudible in the gallery.
osa"see it &Jib RN would suggest to the Gallant Captain
deelsra etleThe would not be better to leave law reform to the
n whose proper province it was, especially after tho
°rtl esr that the matter was under the consideration of the
v n_neellor.
thk-lANCEI LOR of the EXCHEQUER trusted
eiea. A
1,41:.q.w55 Honourable Member, knowing that the Govern-
aeiii;ct engaged in the most solemn manner with the
14. t no
tuts motion, would consent to postpone it. He
Isettlßlst t. her concluded by whatever measure might be
to
,he (j!rwad ,by the Government ; undoubtedly not,
sts,74it "e. Chancellor of the Exchequer) would ask him
until the 'tali 811(1 . Government measure was brought for-
k, ' it should be found requiring amendment it
teVt. ((iroPetent in the Ilonwoourrdahmleo.rMe.ember to pro.
f;° would say just one It might be
1.'41 the remarks of the Gallant Captain that he

blamed the Attorneyr General for not bringing forward a mo-
tion on the subject, but he should recollect that the Attorney-
General had sat in that House, night after night, to obtain an
opportunity for the discussion of a Bill in which the entire
public was interested, and was he to be held responsible for the
delay, for which he was not at all to blame ? Under all the
circumstances, he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) trusted
that the Gallant Captain would postpone his motion.
Captain PEC HE L L consented to follow-the advice of the
Chancellor of the Exchequer and postpone his motion, but he
would not relinquish it.
Mr. GOULBURN would leave it to the Attorney-General
to say whether the motion of the Gallant Captain had been
sufficiently explained to the House to induce it to alter the
law which made the husband liable for the debts of the
wife. Such an alteration, he thought, would only make
things worse.
'I he ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that the motion
'was subversive of the law of the land. By'that law a mar-
ried woman could have no property, and consequently her hus-
band was answerable for her debts. The Gallant Officer said
that merchants in B• ighton had suffered from giving credit
to married women. But that was not from any defect in the
law, but from an excess of competition, which the Gallant
Member candidly admitted. A better remedy for them than
that proposed by the Gallant Captain would be the exercise
of a greater caution in giving credit, and to produce that was
the object of a Bill which he (the Attorney-General) in-
tended to bring speedily before Parliament, and which he
trusted would soon be the law of the land.—(Hear, hear.)
The Gallant Captain was mistaken in supposing that there
was any difference of opinion between two such high law
authorities as the Queen's Solicitor-General and himself.
The case he alluded to was that of Jane Champion. Her
husband was transported for felony, and she consequently be-
came liable for any debts she might contract. That was the
old law of England ; but it was no reason why the law should
be altered.
The Bill was withdrawn.
LICENSED VICTUALLERS.

Captain PEClfill:said he now rose to move fur leave to
bring in a Bill for the protection of licensed victuallers. The
of of it was to restrict the responsibility under which this
class stood at present with respect to property brought into
their houses. They were liable to great hardships under
the law as it now stood, and were not at all treated fairly.
The restrictions imposed upon them were not so necessary at
present as they were when it was competent to any person to
open a public house, no matter what his character was. There
was a recent case in which a tavern-keeper had to pay for
property, ohich it appeared afterwards had been stolen by his
servant.

Colonel SIBTIIORP opposed the motion.
Sir G. STRICKLAND supported the motion.
Mr. W. W. WYNN said no sufficient ground was stated
for altering what had been the common law from time im-
memorial.

Mr. WAKLEY supported the motion. Many petitions had
been presented on this subject, and it could not therefore be
considered as a wanton, uncalled-for piece of legislation.
Mr. HUME was desirous to afford relief to the subject
when he had a real grievance to complain of. If the object
was to remove all responsibility he could not concur in it.
He hoped the Attorney-General would give the House his
opinion on the law as it stood.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL did not consider the law
at all defective. The law was that if the property of a tra-
veller had actually, or by construction, come under the pro-
tection of a landlord, he was responsible for it. This might
operate sometimes as a hardship, but he saw no reason for
altering the law. There was no law which might not operate
sometimes as a hardship as well as this. The decision must
ultimately depend upon a jury, to whom it must be satisfacto-
rily proved that the traveller had the property, and that it had
passed into the care of the landlord.
Captain PE C HE L L said the great object of his Bill was to
make it incumbent on the traveller actually to place his pro-
perty in the care either of the landlord or his servant. If a
person put his horse into the stable of an inn, even without en-
tering the house, it was held that the landlord was liable for
the horse if it should be stolen. Was not this a great hard.
ship ? With respect to the case of Captains of her Majesty's
ships, they were not permitted to convey any thing but specie,
and were liable only to the amount for which they gave a
receipt.
Lord SANDON would not oppose the motion, on the un-
derstanding that it would embody some limitation.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL saw no reason why there
might not be limitations in the case of licensed victuallers as
well as of carriers.
Sir E. SUGDEN did not think the object proposed was
practicable. In his opinion, it would be better for all parties
that the law should remain as it was.

The House then divided, when the nupbers were—
Ayes 32
Noes 97
Majority against the Mution-65
Sir E. WILMOT said that lie had prepared ri motion re-
garding the want of accommodation for Members of that
House in the House of Peers. He considered it was time to
complain of this, when the space alloted to Members of the
House of Commons in the Upper House was so inconvenient
that it was scarely possible for them to see or hear anything
that transpired, and more especially when persons who had no
right there were constantly admitted and accommodated.—
( Hear.) The Peers, on the contrary, met with every accom-
modation when they visited the House of Commons.

After some farther conversation, the Hon. Gentleman ex-
pressed his intention of bringing the matter before the House
on a future occasion, unless the conversation which had that
night transpired should produce the desired effect.
POST OFFICE.

Mr. WALLACE rose to move for "a Select Committee
to inquire into the causes of the irregularities and delays which
have taken place in the transmission of the mails between
London and Manchester and Liverpool, and between London
and Edinburgh and Glasgow, by the railway from Birming-
ham to nmchester and LiverpoOl." The Hon. Gentleman
subsequently withdrew his motion at the suggestion of Mr. F.
T. Bar►ng.
REVENUES OF THE CROWN.

Sir R. INGLIS moved for an " account, showing the
amount of moneys which would be applicable to the civil
Government of England if the hereditary and temporary re-
venges of the Crown enjoyed by his Majesty King George the
Second had been enjoyed by succeeding Sovereigns."
After sonic discussion, in which Mr. HUME, Sir T. FREE-
MANTLE, and gr. T. F. BARING took part, the motion was
agreed to.
REGULATIONS FOR THE SITTINGS OF THE

40olk

THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 22, 1837.