The Sun.
London, England, 1863-06-26 00:00:00

Lord PORTMAN objected to the clause altogether,

The LORD CHANCELLOR explained that it was in
compliance with the wish of many noble lords that he had
prepared the clause. However, he had no wish to press it
against the wish of the house. (Hear.)
Several peers intimated to the Lord Chancellor that he
ought to go to a division.

Earl GREY said that it was not thought well to give
powers of assisting railways by special clauses in a pri-
vate bill. It was understood that a general bill was to be
passed to give those powers to all owners of settled estates ;
and the special clauses had accordingly been struck out of
the private bill, which had been sent down to the other
house without it. The bill now before their lordships was
a simple fulfilment of the pledge given by the noble and
learned lord. He trusted it would be allowed to pass through
Committee.

The discussion was prolonged by Lords Powis, Romney,
and Taunton,

The LORD CHANCELLOR thought that the measure
might be brought forward in a better form in another ses-
sion. He therefore withdrew the clause,
The bill was then passed through committee without the
amendment.

NAVAL MEDICAL SUPPLEMENTAL FUND SO-
CIETY WIND UP ACT, 1861, AMENDMENT
BILL.
The Duke of SOMERSET moved the second reading of
this bill.

Lord CHELMSFORD opposed it.
After a short discussion, the second reading was agreed
to.

SALE OF MILL SITES, &o. (IRELAND) BILL.
This bill was read a second time.
DRAINAGE AND IMPROVEMENT OF LANDS
(IRELAND) BILL.

This bill was read a second time, and referred to a select
committee.

AFRICAN SLAVE TRADE TREATY.

Earl RUSSELL moved the committee on this bill, which
was agreed to, and the report was received.

VOLUNTEERS.

On the motion of Earl DE GREY and RIPON, the
house went into committee on this bill.
Clauses 1 to 34 were agreed to, with a few verbal
amendments.

On clause 35 being taken up,
Earl DE GREY and RIPON suggested that his noble
friend (the Duke of Richmond) should allow him to intro-
duce his (Earl De Grey's) amendments first.
The amendments were then put.
The Duke of RICHMOND, in opposing these clauses,
did so without any feeling of hostility to the great and im-
portant volunteer movement. But he disapproved of the
attempt to obtain practice grounds and rifle ranges for the
volunteers by the means set forth in the clauses under con-
sideration. The powers songbt by them were very great
and so very unusual, that few of their lordships would be
willing to have them conferred upon them, and still fewer
would be willing to exercise them if conferred. The Coast
Defence Act was not a parallel case, as it was merely
directed to the coast defences ; but the present bill extended
over the whole country. They were asked to legislate fora
particular purpose, and no ground or peculiar hardship had
been shown for the justification of the extreme powers
sought. (Hear.) No case had been adduced of a corps that
was linable to procure practice-ground, and no attempt
had been made to show that the volunteer force would
be the less efficient for the want of those extraordinary
powers. The power, if granted, would be very seldom
exercised, and therefore it would not be well to pnt into the
hands of the lord-lieutenant such a power ; for, practically,
it would be in the hands of the lord-lieutenant. The corps
would memorialise the lord-lieutenant to appoint them a
bound—the lord-lieutenant would appoint his deputy-
lieutenant to inspect and report upon the ground for him—
and, if he thought it right, he would accede to the proposal
which he would forward to the Secretary of State. After-
the ads • , application would be made to Parliament to ratify
rrangement by enactment. But, seeing that the plan
would come recommended
by the lord-lieutenant and the
Secretary of State, what
pro-
perty have of defeating the
would any owner of
~been
made
out billf in Parliament. Seeing that
no case had
only
them
the clauses, and that the
grievance which su
objectionable
the statute book by
one, they would only be mon:bey:jun almost an imaginary
concluded
enactment.
passing an unnecessary and
u.ded by moving
(Hear, hear.) The noble duke
omission of the clause. the
Earl DE GREY and RIPON was not
surprisede that the
their
noble lord had raised the question, or that
lordships would oppose the clause. But, in
the Lotf h l
ace,
he could not think that the noble duke was correct
in sup-
posing that the main responsibility would be thrown upZn
the lord-lieutenant. There was no doubt that the proposal
to the lord-lieutenant should be made, and that he should give
a certificate. That power wasadded merely to give additional
security that no land would be taken except where it was
wanted, and could not be obtained except by the intervention
of this power. A petition would have to be presented to
the Secretary of State for War, who would make inquiries
into the circumstances, and if he approved of the proposal
it would have to be brought before Parliament. He (Earl
De Grey) had introduced words requiring the lord-lieuten-
ant to certify not only that the ground was wanted, but that
the proposed ground was secure, and properly adapted for
the purpose, so that the certificate could only be granted
where the volunteers really required land. But then came
all the other proceedings. A petition would be presented to
the Secretary of State. The Secretary of State would make
the same inquiry which was at present made under the
Local Government Act, after which he would make the
order, which would require the sanction of an Act of Par-
liament. The real question was, whether there was any
tkecesaity tor the power. In country districts it was hardly
possible that volunteer corps should be in want of ranges
for Practice , but in every large town,eapecially in the neigh-
Imirlaood of London, there was Brest difficulty in obtaining

such ranges. In London there were 26 corps whose prac-
tice ground was at the Government range at Woolwich,
where they could only practice when the reg 1, r troops
were not occupying the ground. The consequ tkee was that
they were debarred from anything like reg : ar practice.
Volunteers ought to have peculiar facilitie :, r, in conse-
quence of their superior intelligence and ril,‘ interest they
took in practising, they were were enabled to attain a very
high proficiency when they were afforded proper opportuni-
ties ; so much so that Parliament had recently decided that
not less than 10s. out of the 30s. granted to the volunteers
should be dependent on their having passed through a con-
siderable amount of musketry instruction, involving the
firing of a large number of rounds every year. It would be
impossible for them to obtain that money unless they had
proper facilities afforded them for practice. By an Act
passed some time ago, they were enabled to obtain ranges
voluntanly,but it had not resulted in their obtaining them.
The present bill had been framed under the direction of the
late Sir G. C. Lewis,to whom and the Government it appeared
that these clauses were justified by the needs of the force,
and they were a necessary corollary of the vote of Parlia-
ment, which depended upon the efficiency of the men. The
rejection of the clause would be regarded with much regret
by a considerable number of volunteers. But at the same
time, it the general feeling of the house was that the clauses
should not be proceeded with, he would have no objection to
withdraw them, as they formed no essential part of the bill.
The Earl of DERBY thought that the noble earl could
not deny that in those clauses he had asked for very un-
usual powers. Persons whose grounds were sought wou d
be put to the expense of resisting; and no cases of practical
grievance had been brought forward to show the necessity
for such power being given. He hoped that the noble earl
would consent at least to postpone the consideration of the
compulsory clauses, if he did not withdraw them. . . _

Earl GRANVILLE urged that the same power existed
already with regard to the regular army. But, on the whole,
seeing the opposition that was offered to the clause, which
his noble friend had evidently miscalculated, he recom-
mended him to withdraw it.

The Earl of DERBY—I have always had a great opinion
of my noble friend's discretion ; but I must confess I never
saw that discretion more remarkably exhibited than on the
present occasion. (Laughter.)
Earl DE GREY and RIPON said that he would consent
to withdraw the compulsory clauses, but on bringing up
the report he would introduce a clause to preserve to the
volunteers the permissive powers wh:ch they possessed at
present. (Hear, hear.)
Clause 35 and the other compulsory clauses were then
struck out.

The remaining clauses were agreed to, and the bill passed
through committee.
No mention was made of the new clause which Earl De
Grey and Ripon has given notice to insert after clause 14;
but we understand that it is to be proposed by the noble
earl when the report on amendments is brought up.