The Sun.
London, England, 1863-09-22 00:00:00

SPIRIT OF THE PUBLIC JOURNALS.

TIMES.—The Russian reply to France can hardly
be said to be conciliatory, and if it expresses a wish
to avoid a quarrel, it does so in the most curt and
cavalier manner. It is impossible to see in this
pithy and decided document the smallest concession,
or the least tendency towards a mutual understand-
ing. It is a slap on the face, anti nothing else.
Prince Gortschakoff declares that discussion could
only lead to still further divergence, and says almost
in so many words, as in his reply to Lord Russell,
that if the French Government wishes to avoid un-
pleasant misunderstanding the less it says further
on the subject the better. The last two or three
paragraphs, which are identical with those to Eng-
land, are in the same tone of dignified self-assertion ;
and the concluding remark, that the Emperor of
Russia has the right to expect and to demand the
same respect for the fundamental principles of in-
ternational law on the part of the other Powers as
he has observed himself, reads like a decided hint
to the Powers that they are exceeding the limits
of their rights. Indeed, it cannot be mistaken that
these despatches, while admitting for courtesy's
sake the representations of the Powers, and re-
plying to them indirectly in a Memorandum,
assume that the Russian Government is not
bound to consider them any further than it pleases.
So far, too, as the mere question of legal obli-
gation goes, it must be confessed that the para-
graph which Prince Gortschakoff addresses par-
ticularly to M. Drouyn de Lhuys, contains an
argument of no trifling force. He only dwells upon
one point of the French despatch, because he wishes
to avoid any future misunderstanding—namely,
the way in which, more than once and under dif-
ferent forms, the French Minister alludes to the
Western provinces of Russia as affected by the
stipulations of the treaty of 1815. Tne Emperor of
Russia only consents to discuss the condition of the
Duchy of Warsaw, and " must peremptorily ex-
clude, even in an interchange of friendly views,
any allusions to portions of his empire to which no
international reference whatsoever refers." As we
shall point out presently, Prince Gortschakoff has
no right to exclude thus peremptorily under any
circumstances references to parts of his empire not
expressly guaranteed by treaty; but at the same
time the observation is a home thrust, and hits the
weakest point in the attack of the Allies. Although
it is addressed only to France, its force extends
equally to the other two Courts; end, however it
may be answered, it places them in a position of
great difficulty. It is evident that, if it is ad-
mitted, it reduces the interference of the three
Powers to perfect uselessness. Suppose, it says,
that they have a right to insist upon the establish-
ment of a free Constitution in the Polish provinces
guaranteed to Russia by the Treaty of Vienna,
they have no right to urge any such claim as re-
gards other provinces. But Prince Gortschakoff
and every one else knows perfectly well that if the
good offices of M. Drouyn de Lhuys are only to
affect the D. uchy of Warsaw, they will be perfectly
useless. 'I he insurrection is not confined to the
Duchy of Warsaw. The Poles who are directing it
have no idea of treating the Duchy of Warsaw
as distinct from the other Polish provinces, and
when Europe thinks of the Polish question its
sympathies extend far beyond those limits. In
short, neither M. Drouyn de Lhuys nor any
one else who discussed the subject could possibly
avoid speaking of Poland in a sense which
would trespass on the "peremptory" limits of the
Emperor
of Russia. This assertion of them has the
effect of nullifying
ttohaellporw opositions of the three
Powers by refusing
them to apply to what
they were intended for. Any fresh agreement among
the contracting parties to the Treaty of Vienna could
only apply to the Duchy of Warsaw ; but, as they
would in that case be perfectly useless, it can be to
no purpose to urge them. But, at the same time,
all three Powers declare that they remonstrate upon
no other basis than the treaties of 1815. Diplomacy
seldom claims any other support. That is as far
. back as diplomatic memory reaches. The oldest
diplomatist, like " the oldest inhabitant," has no
traditions before the Congress of Vienna. It is cienr
at least that, as we said, the legal right of interfer-
ence is limited by those treaties. The Russian Em-
peror has certainly a technical right to say that he
will admit of no further intrusion into the adminis-
tration of his dominions ; and after this rigid asser-
tion of the right, any Power which persists in mak•
ins such allusions as Prince Gortschakoff complains
of must be prepared to do more than remonstrate.
We are, in short, impaled on the horns of a very
unpleasant dilemma. Either we wish the reforms
we press for confined to the Duchy of Warsaw, in
which case our interference is useless, or we ask for
their extension to other provinces of Russia, in which
case it is dangerous. Our remonstrances are either
merely diplomatic, and founded on the Treaty of
Vienna, and therefore obsolete and unmeaning, or
they are founded on international law and can have
no other arbiter but force. This difficulty in defining
the limits of interference is precisely the one under
which we have all along observed that this Polish
business labours. The three Powers know neither
what they are asking, nor whom they are asking it
for, nor what is the country they are talking about.
Their propositions, therefore, must be vague, and it
does not require a diplomatist of Prince Gortscha-
koff's skill to bsffie, them by merely professing his
inability to meet them. " We don't understand each
other," says the Russian Minister, " and I see no
chance of our doing so; the less, therefore, said about
the matter the better." What Lord Russell and
M. Drouyn de Lbuys are to say to such a polite re-
fusal of the debate we do not know, unless, like the
Squire in the " Vicar of Wakefield," they should
charge their own confusion on the weakness of their
adversaries' brains, and so excuse their retreat from
so disagreeable a position. At all events, before
they attempt to renew the discussion it would be
well to settle distinctly with themselves in the first
place on what grounds they intend to negotiate,
what they expect to obtain, and what good would
be done by obtaining it. This general and pur-
poseless fencing is disarmed by a single thrust from
their adversary, and only wastes time and deludes
the spectators. We cannot help feeling half afraid
lest something should come of all this demonstra-
tion, and we cannot wonder that Russia is a little
irritated by so provoking a flourish of small swords.
At the same time, Prince Gortschakoff goes beyond
what he can justly claim when he absolutely denies
the right of foreign Governments under any cir-
cumstances to " allude" to portions of the Russian
empire which are not expressly guaranteed by
treaties. The maladministration of a province may
light a flame which all Europe is interested in
quenching, and if an insurrection in the heart of
Russia disturbed the peace of Europe, the Great
Powers would have a distinct right to complain of
it, and, if necessary, to interfere to quiet it. if a
man persists in betting his house on fire, his neigh-
bour has a right to interfere, though the house may
be freehold and not leased. All Europe is con-
cerned in the pacification of Poland, and not of the
Duchy of Warsaw alone, and the Government are
certainly justified in remonstrating with the Em-
peror of Russia against acts which have a tendency
to keep it in a perpetual state of revolt. Above all,
they have a right and a duty to remonstrate against
acts of barbarism and cruelty which are a dishonour
to a civilised Government, and which disgrace the
age in which they are committed. Bat this sort of
remonstrances appeals to a higher law than the
treaty of 1815, and to an authority which Prince
Gortschakoff wonld be less ready to dispute than
the Congress of Vienna. If the Government con-
fined themselves to this, they would be supported
by the general feeling of the country ; but it is a
Utopianism unworthy of the Foreign Minister of a
European State to make proposals which could not
be accepted without the prospect of reviving a state
of things which has long become obsolete, and in-
troducing disturbances which could find no satis-
factory end except by a European war.
POST.—Notwithatanding the apparent success
which bas attended the recent military operations
of the Federal Government at Charleston and in
Tennessee, never perhaps since the commencement
of the civil war were the prospects of the North
more gloomy than at present. If the war is, as the
Unionists allege, gradually but surely exhausting
the rebel resources, it is no less certainly wearing
out the energies of those who foolishly imagine that
by the extermination of a population with which
they claim kindred, and the destruction of cities
which they assert to be their own, they are laying
the basis of future national prosperity and greatness.
It was at Charleston that the first overt act of re-
bellion against the authority of the Federal Govern-
ment was committed; and the reduction, if not the
destruction, of that town has always been antici-
cipated by the Northern population with feelings
of intense satisfaction. Expedition after expedition
has been despatched from Washington to effect
the capture of the capital of South Carolina,
and of its formidable defence, but hitherto without
success. Now, however, for the first time, fortune
smiles on the Federal arms, and it is not improba-
ble that one of the most thriving and prosperous of
American seaport towns may be reduced to a mass
of ruins. According to the latest accounts Fort
Sumter was almost entirely battered to pieces, and
although Fort Moultrie was in a position to reply
to the Federal fire, still the position gained by Gen.
Gilmore on Morris Island was such as to enable him
to discharge shells into the heart of the city. The

prospect of the speedy realisation of their hopes in
wreaking vengeance on the town where the banner
of secession was first ringed does not, however, ap-
pear to have excited that degree of satisfaction in
the North which superficial observers might have
been led to expect. It would seem as if at length,
after two years and a half hard fighting, the convic-
tion was beginning to dawn on the Northern mind
that there is no necessary connection between the
demolition of a few forts or the destruction of a flou-
rishing city and the subjugation of 6,ooo,ooopeople.
Charleston may fall, but with their past experiences
Mr. Lincoln and his advisers well know that its
destruction will not render more probable the re-
alisation of that wild chimera—the restoration, in
its original integrity, of the American Union. About
this time twelve months the election for Mr.
Lincoln's successor will take place, and until then
it seems only too probable that the war will be pro-
tracted. The coming winter will not cause an ab-
solute suspension of hostilities, but, judging from
the military operations of the previous winter cam-
paigns and their results, it is not likely that the
relative positions of the belligerents will undergo
any material modification between the months of
December and March. The advantages recently
obtained by the Federals might, and doubtless
would, a year since have been turned to practical
account; but the disgust with which the large ma-
jority of the Northern population have begun to
regard the war, and the rapidly extending demorali-
sation which has of late manifested itself in the
Federal ranks, will render it impossible for the
Government to reap the fruits of their successes.
There appears, therefore, every prospect of the pro-
traction of that state of chronic warfare which has
so frequently and for such ;engthened periods char-
acterised the conduct of hostilities in America. The
policy of the Confederates is so clearly defensive
that no alternative is left them but to await with
patience the attacks which may be directed against
them. The North, on the other hand, unwilling at
the same time to desist from a struggle which it
nevertheless must feel to be hopeless, and unable to
prcseeute hostilities with that vigour which could
alone promise success. will doubtless content
itself with maintaining with its armies that species
of blockading which has hitherto served no other
purpose than to entail on the country all the
miseries of wan, without tending in the slightest
degree to effect a cessation of hostilities. Should
the war be protracted for another year, the cir-
cumstances under which the next Presidential
election will be carried on will be of so excep-
tional a kind as to invest the struggle in which the
Northern and Southern States are engaged with
an entirely new character. At that election the
Southern States will be entirely unrepresented ;
and although it has been urged by the supporters
of the Federal Government that the South has
hitherto owed allegiance to the candidate who ob-
tained the majority of votes at an election in which
it took a prominent part, still it can scarcely be
contended with any show of reason that the seceded
States should be bound to, accept as Chief Magis-
trate an individual in whose nomination they will
be precluded from taking any share.. This is a diffi-
culty of so purely technical a kind, and so easily
disposed of by the ready fiction that the Southern
population have it in their power to participate in
the election of a President, by abandoning their
present scheme of establishing an independent Go-
vernment, that it might seem scarcely worthy of
notice. But after another year's war, we are in-
clined to believe that the Northern population will
be much mere anxious to discover pretexts for bring-
ing hostilities to a close than for protracting them,
and that however the next Presidential election
may terminate, whether it be in triumph of the
Republican or of the Democratic candidates, a
radical change will take place in the policy of the
Federal Government. It is perfectly intelligible
that, so long as the present administration remains
in office, the war should be pursued with more or
less vigour, and the object with which it was insti-
tuted be still declared to be attainable. The sta-
bility of Mr. Lincoln's Cabinet is absolutely depen-
dent on the continuance of the war, and so long as
that Administration remains in office nothing less
than a successful invasion of the Northern States
by the Confederate forces could bring the war to a
close. But the succeeding Government will be
hampered by no such obligations as those which
press so heavily apon the present Administration.
The next President of the United States can, with-
out risk, disavow a policy which he never origi-
nated, and be at liberty to question the expediency
of prosecuting a war which he never advised. Of
the ultimate result of the American war no one can
entertain a doubt. If two years and a halt' have
not enabled the North to subjugate the frontier
State of Virginia, it must be idle to suppose that
the prospect of reducing to subjection the entire
Southern Confederacy is within the bounds of pos-
sibility. That the war may be continued for
another year is probable, but as, at the end of that
period, the existing condition of affairs will not in
all likelihood have undergone any material change,
there is every reason to hope that the newly-
appointed Government of the Northern States will
take an early opportunity of bringing this must
I disastrous war to a termination.

HERALD.—We all remember the enthusiasm that
attended the naval review at Spithead a feg years
ago. The sovereign, the Lords and Commons, the
Government cffices, the Court, and the Legislature,
were all invited to honour the occasion. From all
parts of the country the people thronged, and
possessed Portsmouth and Southampton, and their
precincts, so that the streets were filled with a
concourse of human beings of all ranks and ages,
and of either sex, the whole night through pre-
viously to the great display. All the mishaps and
shortcomings of the railways, the inconvenience
and discomfort to which thousands upon thousands
submitted from the absence of shelter and bed, and
the vile fare which awaited the later arrivals, were
all forgiven by those who saw 'that imposing
national spectacle. So we can heartily sympathise
with the pleasant ovations that have attended the
visits of the Channel fleet at the various home ports,
and have but to express our wish that this compa-
rative innovation upon 'the rules of the service may
be repeated every year, if the squadron can but be
spared for such an agreeable duty. This friendly
intercourse between the force which is more essen-
tially the bulwark of an island than any other,
reacts upon the visitor and those whom he visits.
That love of naval adventure which inspires the
people of these islands above all other races of this
hemisphere is cherished and stimulated by the eight
of those grand war ships and the hardy tars who
man them. Jack himself, whether he wears epaulets
or not, rubs off his contempt for landsmen, and their
ways and thoughts, when he finds that they take a
pride in him, and care heartily for his welfare, and
welcome him on their home. This first visit to
Liverpool especially seems to have stirred the
hospitable Lancastrians more than any public
event, not even excepting the presence of
Royalty. No finer and more imposing sight, they
tell us, has been seen on the broad bosom of the
Mersey than the Channel fleet standing up the
stream. The whole of the docks, the landing stages
and banks on either side, more than three miles in
extent from the mouth of the river, were thronged
with the masses of people. Liverpool is even more
, a maritime town than London. The great bulk of
its population is connected with the great commer-
cial marine that trades across the Atlantic, and the
labouring folk are principally dockyard artificers,
mechanics, riggers, engineers, and craftsmen, who
attend to the uses and wants of the varied and rich
navy of this Imperial port. So it is not an exagge-
ration to say that the whole town turned out to
welcome the Channel fleet. At the Town Hall the
Mayor gave a banquet to Admiral Dacres, his cap-
tains, and officers; and the speeches on both sides
had a hearty, straightforward tone about them very
unusual in after-dinner complimentary talk. The
guests were told that the naval service was in such
honour among the working people at Liverpool that,
if they were required, 30 sail of the line could be
manned out of the port in five days. That is some-
thing for us here in London to be proud of and to
rejoice at. The Mayor assured the Admiral that
no such sight had been seen in his memory as the
reception of the squadron. All classes had shared
in it, and the enthusiasm had but grown greater
with the better opportunities for the townsfolk and
the sailors to meet each other. Admiral Dacres
answered in like friendly tone when the other
guests drank the health of himself and his officers.
He told his friends around him that, when he
entered the port of Liverpool it was with unfeigned
pleasure ; that when he saw the thousands and
tens of thousands of people of this large maritime
population, all sailors or connected with the sea,
and the women waving their handkerchiefs and
cheering as the fleet entered, ho thought it was
a great mistake that they had not come there
before; and he felt from his heart as a true
Englishman, as a true English sailor, that there
had never been a better thing done than the
sending of the fleet there for the inhabitants of that
large and populous place to know them ; for he was
sure—and he was speaking with the confidence of
nearly fifty years in the service—that the more they
were known the better they would be liked. Na-
turally enough he turned to speak of his officers and
his seamen, his officers whom he commended as
having come from old English families, and his men,
who all knew their duties, and were as good as
ever." "The times," said the gallant old gentleman,
" might be altered; our munitions of war might be
very different, the ships might be different, and the
guns different ; but he thought whenever they were
tried the men would show the same glorious results
as they had ever done—at least he trusted they
would." There is in this modest frankness the true
ring of the metal out of which Nelson and Coiling-
wood were made—commanders to whom every one

of their ships' crews were object,
of carre a ride
and ht the
and personal regard. Admiral
WI ten he file 'they
hip
e
nail on the head exactly
the visit• 4 if the
insisted upon the practical value of
fleet and the crews. The First Lord may mine tuber
the honest, outspoken testimony of t, `till hearty old
he
admiral, who told his friends his m Ind w hen
said that he and his comrades had tied
of friendship between themselves and •inhabitants
of that town, which was a very mator.;al point,
because the people saw what they ,t)a id for—
s re at no ad
they saw the ships, and they sew the m era and
he hoped front this time forty/Led t'aey would
sleep soundly in their beds, for tl iey need have
very little fear of peac9 being disturb• ed while they
maintained such a fleet. We have made a. great
step towards bringing the people of L hese it !elms
into more frequent. contact with those brLwe fe. lows
who, either at sea or on land, fight our battli . and
let us one and all work out our career in sect, .ritY
and comfort. They are of the same stock as e
selves. To isolate and sever them from the la cc':
and family to which they boloog was once thougi it
to be a necessary mease,re to sustain and enact e
perfect obedience and the discipline of their cloth •
But we are getting to know better, and to see titer'
a great free nation like ours should of themsele es
be a military neople, all sold h, rs or sailors if nee ti
be, or all in training. We have, put aside the con- •
script system and the pressganC, and t
is high
time that our soldiers and sailors Llould know that
they are constantly in our thoughts as members of
the same family, and not a mere ceo wd of merce-
naries, fighting blindly and brutally,• and, as that
rough-mouthed Mr. Cobbett used to say, selling
life and freedom to be shot for a still:hie- a. day.
Time was, when a regiment was to be moved from
one garrison to another, that the soldiers • were
kept out of sight, as though their presence eel luld
spread the scarlet fever. The old disciplinari ana
were sadly afraid that the Volunteers would as m`
promise the army and lower its prestige. As.. for
the exacting discipline and dread rule overt he
navy, the recruiting for the Baltic fleet showed tl ie
esteem in which the service was then held by th,
people at large. The first crews were of the r cost
miscellaneous description, all or nearly all la nds
men, with every variety of calling. There -were
tailors by the score, said old L-iir Charles. But
since then the home squadron has opened the eyes
of even that very suspicious section of the people
that forms the mercantile marine. The navy it. no
longer fought shy of by the best .se amen in the
world. The Naval Reserve numbers from tell to
fifteen thousand of the smartest fellows afl oat,
ready, willing, active, and proud of their cone ec-
tion with the navy. The good folks of Lin
it seems, have not only feasted the officers an d the
grandees of the Channel fleet. In St. George's
Hall the non-commissioned officers and men of the
fleet were to be entertained, and it is to be hoped
that wherever the fleet goes it will earn the eeme,
hospitality and goodwill of the citizens that it. has.
, met with on the banks of the Mersey.

COUNTRY MARKETS.

-41.......-----

GLOUCESTER—SEPT. 19.
The show of English wheat to-day was mo derate, and
the sales made were at a reduction of 18 on tht currencies
of last week. Foreign wheat was again very del, at 10
decline. Barley, beans, and oats were without of la age.