The Sun.
London, England, 1839-05-03 00:00:00

Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, but the clause be tsken out of the general rules that the paper shows•
was negatived without a division. laid on the table, and especially as the French Govern
LONDON AND SOUTHAMPTON RAILWAY. - ment not only refused to make compensation, but even
de-
The Report of the Committee on this Bill was taken vied the justice of the claims of the sufferers, be thou,,
t,
produesion of the papers by the Noble Lord would j
"b ir
The London and Greenwich Railway Bill, and the the statements he had made, and show that if the casee bad
Wishaw consideration, and ordered to be engrossed.
...
Wishaw and Coltness Railway Bill, went through the same not been settled before this, it was not through the negl'
stage.
nonce of her Majesty's Ministers. The fact was be
CLAIMS OF BRITISH SUBJECTS ON FRANCE. en-
Sir
T.) had no doubt that the French determined to
Sir S. LUSH INGTON, in moving an address for copies gross all that part of Africa which extended from the ee
e;
Me-
of all correspondence between her Majesty's Government
diterranean to Gambia, and that the outrage complained
and France, relative to the claims of British subjects for re-
of had been committed, not as a reerisal for supp
dress on account of injuries inflicted on British trade on the wrongs, but that they might the more easily put them d
western coast of Africa, since the year 1834, said that nearly sign into execution.
five years had now elapsed since this attack had been made Mr. HAWES was of the same opinion as the Beni;
on British property, and no redress had been obtained; and Gentleman who had just sat down. He was ready to re.
if these injuries, to which he alluded, were really and mit that the foreign department of her Majesty's Goye
e.
ment had not been inattentive, but it would not do to
truly injuries which ought to be redressed, tTie time bad
British trade suspended and British merchants unin
Government
nn_t,
now arrived when there must be ample opportunity
fled from year to year. When the French Governme . our
for the most perfect inquiry. This was a matter interest-
only refused compensation, but denied the justice t a
ing not merely to the commercial interests which were atwas
stake—not merely as regarded the interest or certain indi. claims, on the ground of principle, and even negativedn
viduals concerned in this trade, but it was a ureat and construction of the treaty upon which the claimme".!
important question in another point of view, whe- founded, we were bound to adopt more effective_re
.I`h
ther or not the British nation should be sures that mere negocietions, seeing that the
and
a.tele
excluded from the liberty of trading on the western had already taken possession of Algeers, ,e la.
coast of Africa. If he was not only misinformed ,as to whole of the Mirth of Africa after their expressed territorial
the circumstances, an insult had been offered in the ration that they did not intend to make any territorhtnlislf
person of British merchants to the British nation, quisitions there. The Noble Lord now took upon is,
_aw
remaining up to this hour not only unredressed, but a great responsibility, and it would be his duty to
.7_.
without the shadow of an attempt to obtain redress. them, before the close of the Session, the Correspood eu°
He did not wish to disturb the amicable relations between that would explain the part he had acted in the nag
oeis•
this country and France; but he thought the best and tion with the French Govern,nent.
safest mode to secure the continuance of those relations,
if any injury should take place, would be to require rapers- produced.
Mr. HUM E timegtw +4l correspondence ought to.be
roduced. He did not approve of the dilly. dallyit,Yst
tion within a reasonable time. He should confine himself al- tem—( Laughter) —and he thought that in this 1
romp,
most entirely to the statement of facts SS he understood they least it was clear that it was not likely to lead to prruis".
had occurred, and the House should first be apprised that redress, or to maintain good feelings between twof"_..n.
the aggression of which he complained took place on the tries. The posttemement of the settlement of the "°!"
western coast of Africa, in the neighbourhood of a place dory Question with the Americans was mother cal—nuto
called Portandique. By the treaty of 1783 the right of could say whet this might lead to in another year ?on
trading with Portandique was secured to the British nation, Government ought to take the sense of the House ',le
and in that state it remained for a long period. Prior to question—then they would be doubly armed if theYuTat
the breaking out of the war of 1792 the French went and to seek for redress. The Attiericy President had
'been
devastated the country, and left it entirely desolate. At once have taken the ,ense ri. the Congress, if he hoed bad
the cessation of the war in 1814, although Portandique had treated by the French Government as the Noble b i
again become one of our possessions, it was again considered been.
to be ceded to France, as by the treaty of that year, all that Lord PALMERSTON begged it to be undersstblaci
she was in possession of in 1792, was restored to her. The that he did not say that the French GovernineT on
place, however, had been utterly destroyed by the French finally rejected the claim, if that were the case tl?e was
before that period—it had been abandoned by them. The for the papers would be quite proper ; what he Said_..ice
question then was, whether Portandique returned to France that the French Government had not admitted the J.iiessc`to,
under those circumstances or not.—( Hear, hear.) He of the claim, and that the question was still under a
as
contended that under either of the treaties France had sion. The trade to Portandique was not unprotected an to
most decidedly violated the law. If they abided by the Hon. Member for Lambeth seemed to think. Whe owe
treaty of 1783, the British had a decided and permanent gum trade commenced in the season, armed vessels m
time
right to trade in gum throughout the whole district. If sent to protect it, and if it had declined, it was not fro
they went upon the treaty of 1814, then he contended want of protection. rotes'
that Patandique was no longer a Colony of France, but Mr. HUME asked what might the extent of the p
under either state of the case, the aggression of which he tion be ?__( Hear, hear.)
complained took place. In July 1834, there were two Lord PALMERSTON said that one or two ship
ships, the Industry and the—, carrying on the accus- of war were sent to that point every year, sscat,
tomed trade in gum on that coast, and, without case might be, and he was not aware that anY
any notice whatever, the French commander upon the plaints had been made of want of sufficient protection. .as
station ordered those vessels off. The Honourable Sir ROBERT PEEL wished to put a question to the
and Learned Member then read a letter addressed Noble Lord, relative to the seizure of the pilot letil°
by the French commander to the captain of one of Express packet. The explanation given by the ebtwits
these vessels, stating that the carrying on of that trade was Lord was, that the pilot had been taken from a 'll'oo
a violation of all law, subsisting between civilised coup- man. Now, what he wished to aek was, whether ill{
tries. There was not a single syllable in that letter either had been any admission, on the part of the Govern
tabs
founded in fact or law, and whatever might be the measure here, that a blockading squadron had the right to beet
adopted by the French Government, their first act in cum- a pilot from a merchant vessel, and whether a the
eked
mon justice ought to have been to disavow a document of vessel, under the flag of England, was not to be 10
that description. By the treaty of 1783, it was agreed upon in the same light as a ship of war ? err
that the English should carry on the gum trade from the Lord PA L MER.SON conceived that there was aaed ill
month of the river Suigc to the bay of Portandique, pro- rence between a merchantman and a ship of war; La: bpi
vided they did not form any permanent settlement. What the letters addressed to him by Count Sebastiani, "t tllis
was the lawless construction which had been put upon that not said that the French Admiral was not aware thisiptst
treaty by the French commander ? That a ship at anchor vessel belonged to the Royal Navy, but he had WI itner
forsooth, was a " permanent settlement."—( Hear, to him, that in French the word " marine" applied
hear, hear.) No person who was at all conver- to merchantmen or the Royal Navy. we e%t
sant with the African trade would imagine that- Mr. P. HOWARD did not think that it would -pie
it would be carried on in a ship under sail.--( Hear, pedient for the House to accede to the motion of the
hear.) The answer of the British commander was mo- Hon. Gentleman. i ol°
derate, and characteristic of a British seaman. He re- Dr. LU S H ING TON felt considerable diffienttln cer
fused, properly refused, to obey the peremptory mandate the course he ought to pursue, for he was in the sara'ne, tis
of the French officer--( Hear, hear)--who therefore dition now as if he had never made his motion, becanbo
fired upon the vessel—destroyed 5001. worth of gum, had elicited the same answer from the Noble Lord 19 bid
seized the vessels, and made the supercargo and officers head of the Foreign Department as he obtained iron:elle
prisoners.—( 'leer, hear.) This took place in 1834—and in August last. He would put it to the French G.% rit
up to the present moment no reparation had been made. ment whether it was honourable to them to go on ill'hots
(Hear, hear.) In 1835, the French bad blockaded the gotiations from year to year, leaving British Inercwwith
coast, and cut off the British trade in contradiction to a unredressed. If he gave, way on the present oeei;,,,it
promise that they would not make a blockade, without and did not press for the papers he bad moved n swat
any war, or justifying cause for it, and in fact the would lee upon two grounds, first, because he WI ee
blockde was but a false and pretended blockade, designed pending a negociation between two countries i." f g
to put a stop to our trade—that trade havi!,g been trans- not usual to grant papers; and secondly, because he
tot I e
adeaino 0
ferred to a French Company.—( Hear, hear.) The gum convinced that a stronger appeal would be w
trade of this country with the western coast Africa was French Government, backed by the House of Ccor
one of vital importance to many of our manufactures-- and the people of this country. The Right HO' !
and last year amounted to 27,000 cwt.—( Hear, hear)-- tleman then withdrew his motion. w.Ol '
but though it had greatly increased of late years, HARBOURS ON THE SOUTH-EA STe'w 4
it had increased to the prejudice of British commerce. COAST. ,071
being carried on in foreign vessels.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. E. RICE then rose to move an address for an '7oait.
Doubtless the Noble Lord the Secretary for the Foreign into the state of the harbours on the south-eastern e i'w ii?,t
Department had made energetic remonstrances to the He considered that the harbours on that coast Wa'''d the
French Government, and it was high time that the form a sufficient state of defence in time of wa,_;Bn„iis 0.
French nation should be taught that neither their Govern- great object in the motion he was about to Ina'a -- t ,1`
ment—when they ward lucky enough to get an adrninis- have an inquiry, by scientific persona, in order t.,":_ots
tration—( A laugh)—or their King, who seemed to govern might be seen what improvements could be made. butillot
entirely by his (sea will-_( Hear, hear)—should trifle with ing at the measures for the formation of railroad, to tdot
British interests; but that ample recompense must be, part of the country which had received the sanction ()oio,
without further delay, given for past injuries, and full seen- House, and which would afford a more speedy Comte of
rity against future aggressions.—( Hear, hear.) The tion to the coast, he thou. ght it was desirable that
00
Hon. and Learned Member concluded by moving an ad- improvements should
dress for copies be immediately made in
of all correspondence between the French there. The Hon Member raav'n'
concluded by
and English Governments relative to the outrages coin- addressofwhich l.
nu a 0
milted on British traders to the western coast of Africa,
in 1834. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHE -E • ate
not rise for the purpose of throwing any obstacle 1%4
Mr. GROTE seconded• the motion of his Right Hon. way of the present motion. He believed the ingot
Fjerl. He (Mr. G.) was not disposed to make snch would be attended with the most beneficial results, °soy
harsh criticisms on the spirit of the French Government, as the Government and Parliament would be put in P° old
!he author of the pamphlet quoted by his Right lion sion of the best information that skill and science coos
Friend had done. He (Mr. G.) was most desirous to see. produce. He hoped, however, that undue expeetansetl
friendly relations continued with the French Government,t would not be excited out of doors, as if it was °IIPt far
the
rhaer
to
but he thought Sufficient attention had not been given that large sums would be expended by the Governtepifis.
the wrongs inflicted by French authorities on British mei!)_ improving particular ports, it would only parelnhinwelt
chants, amongst whom were some of his own constituents, dual efforts. He would have no objection to Ple°_€dne vitt)
Reversing the case, in order to come to a sound opinion on toh inquiry, but inquiry only. It would be !!"
it, lie hacr asked himself what he should think if the aggres-
sors had been British, and the sufferers French, insteasi ofn possesiO. t e most beneficial results, locally, so far as directing the
efforts of particular parties, if they were put I , cold i'v
the aggressors being French, and the British sufferers, as of the best and most impartial information that
they now were; and his answer was that if Bri- procured upon the subject.—( Hear, hear.)
coast ofij
tish authorities had committed on French merchants E COa- •
Alderman THOMPSON thought the north-easseaogan...4
wrongs to the same extent as those now corn- of equal importance with the south-eastern. Thsete"amers Pal
plaincd of by us, the person responsible for
traders
segually dangerous, and the intercourse by_,_tigis.e. :,',l
them would deserve a very severe reprimand, and the
damage ought to be made good to the injured parties. In. would therefore move as an amendment, that the w'°
rd
case the damage was not less than 100,0001. Another North" be introduced after the word' "'South." a ' t very Alto
consequence, was the entire depression of mercantile enter- Sir E. CODRINGTON thonht the question °`
prise between this country and the west coast of Africa; importance, and in case of war it would be most &sir:at et'
our ships had been driven away from that district ; indeed have harbours of refuge. There could not be very gr in
English capital end energy were almost interdicted from pense in the survey which was proposed. n obieetecVit
any exertion in that quarter. He was ready to admit The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHERUEw n-0. '" i
that the Noble Lord had not been inattentive in pressing the amendment, as no previeus notice had been g'r:roon.,,lll,
was acceded to there would be a series of amendmenvtae y
the claims of all the merchants upon the French Govern- round the House. Let them perfect the present sur 3' not',
ment, but as at the end of five rears, that Government first instance andt then it would be seen whether e
horoped oP
showed no more inclination to ir.ciemnify the sufferers than prosecuteiveuld it
be further.wita wnl: t
001
at first, lie thought it was high time the question should these grounds advantageous
egreannuesntdomnt
be taken up the House of Commons. The trade of the Col. PLANTA thought the inquiry a most neportaatitne ~
English to Portandique, admitted of no more question whether he regarded it as a measure of protection in bbeael
than our trade with any other part of the world ; and if war, or for the security of their merchant vessels. 116gla lahre
after all the care and caution of our merchants,their ships had witnessed the destruction of no less than slit Ve;arlwlie
were to be driven away by a French Commander, year on the north-eastern coast between Dungen°she Pilo
their supercargos insulted, and the whole trade' mouth of the Thames. He was delighted to hear ' isiefig
almost entirely ruined, with impunity, a general Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the ExcheVer frold ,
allowed
an assent to the motion, and he hoped tine/fin-W.lZr
feeling of insecurity must in consequence extend itself vedto perfect that inquiry before it was extende?_,.avy it.i ip
among those engaged in British commerce. He (Mr. (Hear, hear.) He, believed all parties who were_ w'eenieot
G.) was fully sensible of the importance of this question; reseed would be willing to co-operate with the Crovel"
he was awiLe of the justice of the complaints of our mer- the measure so soon asit et foot ~ t 0(5
chants, end of the bona fide character of our trade with Mr. WHITE would cewrtaasinsly support the arnenoi-f,. efr,,
Africa. He was also aware of the right that had been se_ Hon. Member for Hull, believing the protection of thd.e".e.ol to"
cured to them by express treaty, and feeling that those rights was equally necessary on the North as on the South
-¢
had been violated, he felt the necessity of taking some CO
ewe the
steps to secure redress for the grave and serious injury The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said if the amend° tbatww
Hon. Member was carried, he should certainly Inc° Wis'l4
which had been inflicted on our interests, and to prevent a
words" and South-western" be added.—(A laugh.) 00 bow
recurrence of similar outrages,. On these grounds he se- stituents were deeply interested in the question•
conded the motion of his Right Hon. Friend.
Lord PALMERSTON said that when his Right Hon. equalNi justice would be dealt out to all parties.
eesseil
rr.
DERBY hoped
supported the amendment.
be P" toir
Friend brought this question before the House last year, he ''M
hoped the amendment would n0t,.0 &pi
(Lord P.) stated that he was fully sensible of the m- as it would' depriveY the country of the benefits of the '
portance of the matter, that negotiations were pending with sion altogether.
the French Government on the subject of the claim for resocalteealtt
Sir THOMAS TROUBRIDGE hoped no "-;fo' pOr-sbe
compensation from the British, and that he hoped would be thrown in the way of the very useful an"- of
before long to be able to lay before the House motion that had been submitted to the consideration
lit 5
a satisfactory reply from the French Government. He House. ,0 le
was now concerned to state that the discussion between Mr. PEASE thought the House had taken far Lcseessel
the two Governments bad not yet -reached that agreeable view of the subject. It was well known that for one cars A
stage; he undoubtedly agreed mainly with his Right Hon. passed down
iiAti!ltecaronell ten passed_ Northward'c R said '
CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUsnot
Friend, not only in his statement of facts, but also in his words in explanation. be
opinion that a wrong had been done to British subjects, for Sir. Alderman
which they were entitled to compensation at the hands of tion was under consideration under he administratiVoulde
the French Government.—( Hear, bear.) That being the R. Peel, he got a promise that the north-cast coast res,
opinion of her Majesty's Government they conveyed it to attendedto; therefore he was only acting consistently let
itY
the French Government, and endeavoured to satisfy and his amendment. , the to
convincee them of the justice of the claims of our merchants. Mr. HUME did not see any reason for postpolinteblef 0
Th.. Government of France had not yet admitted that those quiry respecting the north-east coast. It syas 10a, on °in
wrongs had been committed by their servants, and they also see the distress of a number of ships on the conwild (1,
said that our documents had failed to convince them that storm, and therefore he trusted the Government waanr oforo
the ccmplainants had as yet shown any ground to Entitle duty and make inquiry as to the best spot for a hnlaaitY tP
them to pecuniary compensation. Her Majesty's Govern- foge- which would do much good. It was due to sum
his
the matter ought to be instantly commenced. ~ ~,id awe
ment not being satisfied with this answer, next transmitted The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUED• -1 '
to the French Government reasons which they thought only objection was to the opening of the whole questiea'opioie
most conclusively established the justice of the claims highestmilitary
authorsaty in. country had Wiesveen shaviso aebew 't
already before them. The discussion was still pend- of the necessity a survey of the cast coast. "I Pa' 0 oitFPLui
ing between the two Governments ; he therefore ginning, and he trusted it would be allowed to go on on,
submitted to his Right Hon. Friend who made the motion, burdening it with one other part of the coast
of flgl'it es
that it open the question respecting the whole sea
cast
tactics, nor advantageous, but, OR the contrary, disadvanta- would be neither consistent with Parliamentary
Scotland, and Ireland. He was most anxious4-not: toit plioeugls3 De
the motion of the H on. Alderman, and he hopeds
geous to the public interests, if he (Lord P.) were to yield ht floe'
ithdrawn.
to the motion, and consent to the production of the papers ".
Mr. A. CHAPMAN sepported the views of the Rig
, the
called for. It had never been the habit of the House to the Chancellor of the Exchequer.
insist upon the production of papers while discussion was Sir E. KNATCHI3ULL was perfectly satisfied :olid give
pending between this Government and a foreign Power, views of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and he ''' rep
especially ri ,;
especially when that discussion was on a subject of the him all the aid that lay in his power.
notr.tooi
totto
nature to which the present motion alluded. For the same The Gallery was cleared for a division, but
reasons he was convinced that the House would be of bpi- the amendment haying been withdrawn. The origin'
First
nion with that it was not fit that he should now enter into was thenA agreedr to.
respecting the
postponed his motion
ns.t,
core
an examination of the facts and arguments in the case,
nor proper for him either to state in detail the grounds on FrAulitrs. andß Tenths poet*
Mr. GIB SON thou roseertgy ti"
thfoerla6trhetiurref 8.11 Deo'
which he thought the claims of the sufferers were just, or spondenee between our Goveroninmoesnet and their agent in
on tb°
to inquire into the answers and reasons brought forward mark, relative to the duties and fees lately
by the French Government. He could assure the transit of goods between Hambur and Lubeck. oto pike
House that her Majesty's Government was fully impressed sage was becoming the high roadgfor our c""eractil latog
imposed gat pas;
with the importance of this case, both as regarded north of Europe, and had been free for centuries
asu_it4 ee.e,t
the interests of the parties concerned, and as regarded when heavy dues were imposed upon all goods P 5
g the slsraji
the general interests of the commerce of this country, and Hamburg to Lubeck. They were also abrogaetirues oneo
ti
he could also assure the House that on their side no en- of the Reciprocity Acts, by imposing double !hlevied 1,41.0
deavour should be wanting to convince the French Go- goods going from Hamburf to LubC:ck—to those
going
fro
yernment that her Majesty's Government felt this to be a goods from Lubeck to I amburg. The goods we ,
while those conilr!orrto
chiefly the produce of England, Russia ann t wss
just and proper claim, and although it might be under-
'll3' bi-
stood that the French Government were slow to admit the •
Lubeck to llamburgh, were the produce of IL
t for elf us
justice of the claim, which others had no difficulty in recog- ca, thereby giving them a great advantage over us.
fo rt oss
nising and sympathising with, he was satisfied that the nation.. The Government of Denmark put _ewe ,
a sufficient ,s,eround for calling upon the Govermen orm
-- ere°
French Government had much too great a respect for itself reasons for these dries—for instance, they said conwniong
arid for the great country whose affairs were entrusted unto taking such a course that the Sound dues will notd ore 0.°5
other be h a
ohraS
it, not to feel that it ought to make reparation as soon as valuable. They were in themselves questionablre,,auneg. Thedi
it was satisfied that it was bound to do so.
qui 0 F
ye
Alderman THO 111 P SON concurred to a great extent
per se and
but 0:5 this was a casegoodsubject folldni di a tai opnpe aurptoon
with the Noble Lord, him
mhietbn tnonilrafnisrein
witial Teduties leyied 1 the
as the negociation had been going on for four years with- Affairs, that he was pretesting
the House would hear from the Noble Secretary,i)ovv.cri: not oti:Ye
out any advantage to the sufferers, he thought . againstthose duties, but against the Sta e
H would not detal e
it ought to k•
ing of Hanover.—( Hear, hear.) e