The Sun.
London, England, 1830-12-18 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, Dzc. 17.

. ,
The Lien CneNcruant did not take hie seat until
Twenty Minutea past Five o`elock.
The 'Nebo') of LONDON presented a petition from a
Owe in the county of Essex, praying for the abolition of
slavery.
The Duke of DEVONSHIRE presented a petition from
a place in Ireland, against a repeal of the Union.
Lord KING said he had several petitions to pre-
sent from various places in Ireland and Scotland,
the prayer of which might be summed up in a few
words. The petitioners prayed for cheap law, cheap
corn, cheap coals, cheap Government, free trade, and a
Reform in Parliament.—(Hear, anti laughter.) With the
hatter pert of the petition be mita say, that if the re-
presentation of the people in England was bed, that
in Scotland was much worse, it was a mere farce.
Its perfeetinn in this respect must exceed even the imae
girrition of the Noble Duke opposite (Wellington), who
could net " conceive any thing so perfect." He would
now present two of the Scotch petitions, the one was from
Artiroeth, end the other was from the county of Renfrew.
This latter petition was certainly not very intelligibly
worded, end it contained a passage against which he had
been informed that their Lordships might possibly take
some objections. In the firm place, the petitioners en-
treated their Lordships to counsel the people, which was
whai their Lordships did not often do.—(A laugh. )--But
the next was, that their Lordships were nut only to
couneel the people, but they were to counsel them not to
submit to nneonetitutional Representatives imposing tin-'
necessary taxation. He did not think that this was lan-
guage which ought to prevent the reception of the petition
by the Howie, nor did he think that it ought to induce
their Lordship not to pay attention to the prayer of the
pe;titioners. There were sums parts of the petition which
eertairily were not very intelligible; hut if their Lordships
came to a resolution of rejecting petitions because they
were not intelligible, be was afraid that the right of peti-
tioning: Parliament would be very sensibly abridged. He
should now move that the petition be laid on the table.
The Earl of 11ADDINGTON moved that the petition
be read at length.
The petition being read by the clerk at the table,
The Earl of ETA DDINGTON wished his Noble Friend
to consent to withdraw the petition. Ile had no wish to
impede the practice of petitioning that Hours, and much
less did ha wish to throw any obstacle in the way of the
present petition, as it was the first of the sort that bad as
yet been received front a Seotch county ; but he ohjeeted
to the language of the petition, and trusted that his Noble
Friend would consent to withdraw it.

• Lord KING did net think the petition of so objection•
able a nature that he was authorized to withdraw it. The
petition had•been agreed to at a county meeting. It ca.
tainly did not look as if it came from Scotland, for parts
a it were not intelligible, and it prayed their Loidehips to
court el the people, the very last thing which their Lord-
ships would do. As the petition likewise prayed for relief
against excessive taxation, he could not consent to with
draw it.

• Lord DUNCAN would bear testimony to the increasing
anxiety of the people of Scotland upon the subject of Re-
form. The rine of the absolute necessity of a Reform
was gaining ground rapidly amongst every clays of people
thimighout Scotland. The boroughs in Scotland were in
a much worse condition than the counties with respect to
the representation, anti even for Edinburgh the Member
Was returned by only three voters. Since the last census,
the populatiou of Scotland had much increased; mid, taking
the lower and middling orders of society throughout the •
country, there was as much information as in the same'
grades of any population throughout Europe; and he
' would put it to their Lordships whether it was possible
that such a people could be blind to their absolute degra-
elation, under such a system of returning Members to Par-
liament. The people of Scotland, it was true, had hitherto
been silent upon the subject, but let not Noble Lords iota-
. glue that it was the silence of apathy, for it had been that
of hopelessness and despair. His Majesty, most forth-
' noddy for the safety of the country, had been pleased to
put at the heart of the Government, a Nobleman long cele-
brated fur his wisdom as well as for being the friend of •
Reform ; and this fact had revived the wishes of Scotland,
which had previously been dormant. Ile would avow •
that he had confidence in the Noble Earl's intention to
effect A neutral ; and he know that before many weeks
their Lordships' table,woulti he covered with petitions from
Scotland ite support oft het measure.
Lund ELLENIiOROUGH did not see any reason why
the petition should not be received by their Lordehips.
Earl GREY thought that the petition might have been
better worded, lie was always extremely unwilling to
take hersh or illiberal measures with respect to petirione,
and in the present case Le was very unwilling to object to
the petition, hut he could not but consider it improper for
any petitioners to urge their Lordships to advise the people
to resist the other House of Parliament as a body of repre-
sentatives, illegtiliy and uneonstitutionally dawn. This,
in hie opinion, was going rather beyond the usual language
of petitions, and be should object to receiving it, on the
ground that it called, upon their Lordships to give advice
to the people to exert a railKtitriCtt to legal authority. lie
did hope that hie Noble Friend would adopt the suggestion
that had been thrown out, anti withdraw the petition.
Lord' KIN(.; would not wish to press the petition
against the views of the Noble Earl, and he would there-
fore coment to withdraw it.
The Earl of HADDINGTON said, that he had no

hesitation in acknowledging that the feelings in favour of
RelOrm were growing rapidly throughout Scotland. The
people were completely diseatistied with the borough re-
preeentetion, .and as the system no longer had the cool'.
deuce of the people, it was impossible that it could work
well. Ile would go farther, and say, that it was an abso-
lute impossibility fur any man, whatever his station, or
however wilfully blind, not to are that a very great change
of opinion upon the subject had been recently produced
throughout every part of the empire. In this point of
view he h It himself compelled to consider the subject, and
the only point was to vcertain where to make a stand
against t,,oi,e disaffected persons who wished nut for Reform
but for lotion. The Noble Earl at the head of his
Majesty's tiovernment bad declared, that in reforming
Parliament he would be cautious to preserve the institutions
of the country, end be should come to the question with
an anxious desire to give his support to the Noble Earl and
to repose confidence in his measures.
The Earl of FIFE thought that some latitude ought to
be given to the language used in petitions, and more espe-
cially a petition that emanated from the warmth of the
people in favour of Reform. Ile trusted that the Noble
Earl (Grey) would be able to give a fres representation to
those large towns that were now unrepresented, or the, re-
presentation of which was corrupt or imperfect.
Lord denied that the Scotch *piton.' of represen-
tation nolked well for the people of Seotland, though it
certainly worked well fur those who enjoyed the monopoly
of it, and who possessed thereby the power *1 laying on
the taxer. Ile denied that the object of those who called
for Reform WAS revolution, and he maintained that the en-
listing of the middle classes in the cause of Reform, was
the lisAt and only security against revolution in the present
character of the time*.

The Ertl of lIADDINGTON explained, that his re-
math: is to the working well of the present system of
representation was not applied to Scotland particularly,
but was applied to the general amain of roprenentation
throughout the empire,

NlArquia of BUTE &nivel that the people of Scot-
lend felt thernselvea oppressed or degraded. When he
heard such a statement mule in proof that the people of
Scotland wanted Reform, lie altogether douhted that they
entertAord any such deeire, lie conitended that Scotland
was well aatisfled with her repreeentatices, or that their
Lord•diips would have heard to the contrary long since. It
Iran a new thing- to hear it 'said that the people of Scot-
land were nut well repreaented..—(flear, hear, from
Lord Kitty.) The Noble Lord might cry "Hear, hear,"
but, in fact, the old story won, that the people of Scotland
were too well represented, for they had been accustomed to
hear of oithing but Scotch Jobs._

Lord DUNCAN, as e proof that the people of Scotland
Were not well represented, stated that a few pare ago the
Lord Advocate and a majority of the Scotch representatives

voted against the removal of a stigma upon the Preshy-
teiians.
The Earl of DARNLEY concurred with the Noble
Lord (Ellenl.nnougb) in the opinion that this was nut the
proper occaiion for discosaing the question of Reform. At
the same time he wished to *tate, that be always felt con-
vinced that there Why much in the representation of the
people in the other House of Parliament which requited
Reform. He was persuaded that the question of Reform
-Onidd'uot now be evaded or delayed. Hut would advise
liir Nohl, Friend at the head of his Majesty's Government,
mid their Lordships, not to refs tin, through the fear of
goitlg too far, from doing that which was necessary to itit-
OlfY the !public mind in this eventful crisis. lie was
ilUtf, thrit Lordships would have more to answer for
lion any other prison in the empire, if they did nut satisfy
the public raper:Latium' upon the fitltttinr, of Reform. To
tfrect that tinOfe must be some waaritival, and he was eoltli=
dent they would not satisfy the publics:expectations if the
direct nomination of Altibline of thellOutie of Commons
by Peers of that Hones wets nut taken away.
Lord KING presented k yetitioe (mut the overcame and
inhabitant householders of &thou-hill, against ths par°.