The Sun.
London, England, 1806-07-17 00:00:00

MR. PITT.

The, House having resolved into a.Comtnittciri up-
on the Consolidated Fund Bill,

VANSITTIET moved a Clause of A.pprnpri-

ation.

LOTA FoLKsToNE obsvrved upon that part of the
Account in which it appeared that 41,th01.155. had
been paid for the discharge of Mr. Pitt's debts, al-
though the Address voted by the House upon this
subjed contained these precise words,. " a sum not
exceeding 40,0001."
Mr. VANSITTART remarked upon'the insignificant
amount of the difference alluded to by the Noble+
Lord, and stated, that this dillerence might be coil.'

sidered the result of the order, that.nci,tiednAionfor
fees shotild be made upon the sun-) originally granted.
Lord FOLK,STONE.. said, that to, overlook such,
a d;ifereace would be to. establish a precedent tend=
iag to jOstify the Minister in 'exceeding the grant.of
that House, in applying a sum of the public money,
beyond that which Parliament or that House might
authorize. The Noble Lord also noticed some in-
corretlneSs casting up theaccounts upon which
.
this Bill was founded.

I`,ll*. VANSITTART referred the Noble Lotd to the
Journals, in which he would find a similar difference
to that of which hemOw complained, and that in the
case of the illustrious Chatham, which difference was
afterwards sanCtioned by the House of Com Mons.
After a few other remarks from Lord FOLKSTONE
and Mr. VANSITTART, the Resolutions were agreed
to, and the Report was ordered to be brought up
to-morrow.

Ord'ered,- on the Motion of
.Mr. ReaTILL, that the
Accounts which were ordered on the 22d and 24th
of and the 12th of May last, relative to India,
should be laid before the House forthwith • •

Mr. PAULL-observed, that the Papers, the ex 7
pence of printing which was yesterday moved for,
were, he thought, inclUded in ,his Motion upon the
same subjea.. However, be was glad that the Ho-;
Lola:able General had, in his absence, taken occasion
to supply the omission.
Sir 4. WELLESLEY stated his reasons for the
liZotibn referred to, to.be simply that the total ex.-
p!-nce of the printing silould be at once before the
House.

BARRACKS.
Mr. ROBSONrose, pursuant to notice, to call the
attehtion of the House to the Accounts on the Table
with respe& to the expenditure of the Public Money
in the Barrack Departitent. In times like the pro-
sent,' when the
.national expenditure was no less
than one million and a half weekly—when the na-
tional bUrthens were rapidly increasing, and likely
to increase still farther—he did not think it necessary
to make any apology to the House for attempting
to occupy its attention upon the subje& of the fla-
grant abuses which he had no doubt of being able
to skew existed in the Department to which his
Metion would refer. ' It was now nearly two
months since he had felt it, his duty to mention this
subject in the House ; hut at that time he was by
no nteans. sa well acquainted with the mal-pradices
which preVailed these ten years back as he had since
become... He was now fully satisfied that the state-
ment he before made was even below the fatd. The,.
House would recoiled, thA, when he brought the
business forward, many Gentlemen seemed to
doubt the corredne,ss of his information ; and that
in consequence of such doubt he received a check
that was calculated to discourage the prosecution of
his object ; but no such cheek should ever avail to
restrain him from the performance of his duty, or
to damp his feelings in the pursuit of the public
good. However, notwithstanding this check, it
turned out inimediately afterwards that the reditude
of his pursuit -was recognized even
,by those from
whom the check proceeded;, for the Noble Lord
(H. Petty), whom he now saw in his place, but a
few. days afterwards brought forward precisely the
same Motion which, when proposed by him, was re-,
, jeded ; but at the time of that rejection he was fully
Persuaded that the Noble Lord was not at all aware
of the enormous abuses that were going on; and it
was hitt justice to that Noble Lord to say, that he
immediately afterwards applied himself to a diligent
investigation of the subje6t ; and the result of that.
investigation was, that the Noble Lard found the
c-aie much worse than it had been described by hiM :
in consequence of which discovery the Noble Lord-
took the course already alluded to, and did him the
honour of copying his Motion'f. Now it turned out
that the rent of the barns which he before referred
to, and which were hired for the use of the soldiery
in the Isle of Wight, were some time since reduced
to one-half .of that for which they were originally
let ; yet such was their value, that he could assure
the House; that were a farther rechitlion of one-
half their present rent to take place, as it must,
there would still be paid for,them even double more
than they were worth. But he had to state that a
great many more -buildings of a similar description,
let on similar terms, had undergone no reduction
whatev If the House would turn their attention
to this r. .er, they would meet in every step of
their inquiry circumstances equally calculated to-ex-
cite their suprise and indignation. Gentlemen would
Istvily 'believe that the sum of 2001: a year had been
paid for shells of ilarns in the Isle of Wight. In re-
terrinz, to this part he torlk mutely a.siogle speck of
the -Barrack Accounts; for, in order to avoid con-
fusion, he did not mean at
.present to extend his in-
vestigation to the whole of the Barrack Accounts,
which were confessedly the most confused in Eu-
rope (4 laugh.). Therefore he should confine hitn-
self, in.'illustration of the' cause of his Motion, to
Sandown Bay Barracks, respecting which he was
ossessed of the most satisfaCtory information. But
~yet the communications! he received were such as
impressed hiM
_with. the propriety of extending his
Motion to all temporary. Barracks'; and it would
appear astonishintto the Public that many of these
li.:- racks, although hired, and paid for by the week,
were often: actually unoccupied for_ a considerable
Tart of the year. To expose such improvident con-
duEt, such scandalous waste of the public money, and
to prevent its continuance, Was the object of the Mo-
tion which he should have the honour of submitting
to the House. The Hon. Gentleman concluded With-

_

" Thia there be laid' before this ilo—Use a Return
of all' the Buildings of every description rented or
hired by Government, .and used as Barracks or
Places for lodging, or containing, Officers and Sol-
diers of the Army, or of persons and horses attach-
ed to the Army ; and that the said Return do em-
brace every Building which has so been rented, or
hired, and so used, in the whole.of Great Britain,
l; is the Ist day of January, 1793, and the 24th
ofJune, 1806: That the, said Returns be exhibited
in fifteen columns, placed in the order, and containing
the several heads, here following, viz : Ist, The date
cat the year and of the month and day when, each
building respeetively was taken ; 2d, The County
and, l'srish in which the building is situate ; 3d, The
name or phrase describing the- building; 4th, The
number of Otikers that are or have been generally
quartered or lodged in the building-.; sth, The num-
ber- of Non-commisSioned Officers and men, and
horses, that are or have been generally quartered or.
loije,ed in the building ; 6th, The name of the pro-
pri:tor of the' building ; 7th, Tl.:e name and rank of

the .Officor or person by' whc,m the. building was
taken on the. part of Government ;, Bth, The. weekly
rent -or hire of the' building ; bth,..The.yearly rent or '1
hire of the building ; loth,, The name and rank of
the Offieer'or person, of- 9fficarsorpeasons;:through
whole heed's the rent or hire has';been paid to the ,
proprietor -of the building ; 1 ith, The time when
any alteration (if 'any.) in the rent; or hire of the
building was made.; 2th, The Weekly rent or hire
of the building, subsequent to such alteration ; 13th,
The yearly rent or hire of the , building, subse-
quent to such alteration ; 14th, The time when the
,building was given up, if not now occupied by Go-
vernment ;- leth, The account of the whole of the
amis which have been. expended in repairs upon
the-building ; and that the said Return 3 do exhibit all
the names and descriptions of the said buildings,
following one another in due chronological order,
the building first taken by Gdvernment standing
first, and the building last taken standing last."
Lord HENRY PETTY did not 'mean to ohje&
to this Motion, the objea of which was to commu-
nicate information to the House. On a former oc-
casion he stated his opinion, that various abuses pre-
vailed in the Barrack Department, .and the only .
question in his mind was, whether the House should
take up the investigation of the subject, or leave it
to those Commissioners to whom, for its own con-
venience, it had thought proper to delegate the
power of -inquiring into subjects connected With the
military expenditure ? A Report was expeeced from
this Commission to-morrow ; and for himself he
must say, tliic were he in the circumstances of
the Honourable 'Mover, he should 'certainly wait
the result of that Report before he brought for-
ward any Motion of this. nature. But yet, as the
Honourable Gentleman was of opinion that no Re-
aiort from the Commission alluded to could be at all
calculated to remove his inducement for submittitig
this Motion, he had no objection to second it, being
anxious to furnish the .House with every informa-
tion that could be desired as to any branch of the
Public Expenditure. •
The SECRETARY at TPAR said, that as his
Noble Friend bad thought proper to support this
Motion, he should not obje&. to it. At the same
time he Must observe, that he saw no Parliamen-
tary grounds for, it ; while the effect -of it would be
to subje6tto great trouble an office which was al-
ready very much pressed by- busineSs. 'The Hon.
Mover was of late in the habit of bringing for-
ward; from time to time, MotiOns of this descrip-
tion, without stating any specific objectthat he had
in view. He did not state. that- he • meant to
ground any proceeding upon such documents ; nor
did he seem disposed. even to acknowledge that such
documents,.
,when produced, did not bear out the
censures which generally accompanied the introduca
tion of his Motions. Such' was the case with re-
gard to the abuses complained of in the Isle of 1
'Wight ; for although the Papers on that subject
had been some time before the 'House,, the Hon.
Gentleman had indicated no intention of taking any •1
further proceeding upon .them. It no doubt zip-
peered, froM those Papers, that considerable abuses
had been. committed in the District . alluded to :
Barns were .hired for the use of His Majesty's
troops; originally at a very extravagant rate; but
that was owing to the circumstances under which
they - were taken. It was at the time when a de-
scent of the Enemy upon our Coast was generally
apprehended ; and .sonie General Officers pointing
out the spot referred to by the Hon. Mover, a
place material to be nromprly ,ciiiisen for the lodg-
ment of troepa, th'e Officers were at' the mercy of
the owners of those barns, who, of course, exaeled.
their own terms. But .the earliest opportunity was
taken for the reduaion of those terms. This re-
duetion was, he understood, asserted to occur in
consequence of the suggestion of,a Barrack-master,
fur hating dismissed whom he had fallen under the
displeasure of some persons. But the feet was
not so ' • tbr the reduction was recommended by
Major Davis; and. on account of that recommen-
dation, took place previous to •the dismissal of
the Officer referred to. There were, the Right
Honourable Secretary observed, several insinna-
Cons thrown out by the Honourable mover against
respe&able Gentlemen ; and though such inSia
nuations did .not appear to proceed frOm much
deliberation, they might do mischief to the cha-
raaers of men who were not present to defend
themselves. Such Condua upon the part of the Ho-.
Plowable Gentlemattwas, he must say, by no means
becoming. It was incumbent upon him, either
with a view to justice Aar liberality, to learn both
sides of the case before he attempted so publicly-to I
implicate the reputaticin of men. Imputatioils of
a serious nature should not be cast upon light or
mere ex part ,statements. But to return to the
Barrack Master so much talked of (Atkins), it was
said he was guilty of 'no mal-pradices—That, how..
ever, upon the communications made to him, he
could venture to contradia—for the representation:
upon which lee was induced to order his dismissal
charged him with various peculations and exactions.
'lntake& upon the owners of, the Barns and Bar-
racks under his superintendance. Indeed; he was
Charged, or rather conviaed,' according to. the Re --
1 port laid before' him,. Of the meanest' exaaionse
such as taking poultry; pigs, :and such things, from
thnSe people. This Report, the Right Honourable,
Secretary observed, he received from the 'Bei- I
rack Master General, whose diity it was to investi-
gate such. a case, and upon whose Report it was, he
understood, the duty of the Secretary at War to
a&, unless where a suspicion of partiality or injus-
tice-should induce' that. Secretary to order a farther
hearing. But in this instance he felt no suspicion,
nor did he ever hear of any thing in the condud of
the present Barrack Master General that, would war-
rant such a suspicion. The Right Hon. Secretary
repeated his question, as to what was the ulterior
obje& of the 'Honourable Gentleman in proposing
Motions of this nature. He rather thought that
matters of this kind bad better been referred to the

Commission'of Inquiry. Indeed, there Ns'',as one
Paper moved for by the 1-lon. Gentlernat which was
specially referred to that Com Mission, and which
Commission was, of course, deemed, even by the
party complaining, the fittest tribunal for the inves-
tigation of the case to which it referred. ,

Mr ROBSON vindicated his condua from the
charge of, improperly introducing this business to
the consideration of Parliament. It was absurd,,in
his opinion, to wait for the decision of a CoMmis
sign to_ which the Plight Hon. Secretary seethed so
41130 o'o
to Conimis,sign 1y4c1,-in. the

course of thirteen months, brought &marl only
one Report, which might be-prepared in a wi-Jek.
Five Officers were, referred to in these inquiries—
.and the Barrack Department, according' to the evi- •
deuce of Mr. 'Wady an, was alone- such that its
Accounts_ could not be investigated in less than
three years. Why then talk so, much of such a
Commission, which' . must, according to the A&
appointing them, Cease to exist in about ayear and
a quarter ?—But the conduel of those Commis-
sioners was "such as, independently of the period of
their existence, must destroy any hope of celerity .
in their proceedings—For the fa& was, -that al-
though so liberally paid, they delegated all the trou-
ble to another- set of .Commissioners. • The Hon.
Gentleman called the attention of the House- to a
Clause in the Mt which forbid those Commis-
siOners from making any retrospe&ive inquiry, un-
legs « they thought proper;" and he mentioned a
case where a man who was proceeding to tell them
Of some former abuses, was stopped, and told that
they did not mean to carry their inquiries beyond
the present year. But, recolle&ing the discoveries
made by the, Commissioners of Naval Inquiry, his
great obje& was to go back, and to trace the
abuses in the Military Department, higher' than
those Commissioners were willing to go. His desire
was to fish out the source of abuse; and, if possible,
to remove it.

Mr. JAMES MARTIN was glad to. see this bu-
sinesS taken up by his Hon. Friend. The public had
too long submitted to be, pillaged, and,they had borne
it more, than they ought—But, like the eel in the
joke, it appeared as if they were so often skinned that
they did not Ebel it. -
Mr. PAULL dwelt upon the circumstances-con:
necaed with the dismissal of Atkins, and stated that
he was an Officer of distinguished merit, who was
recommended to his late appointment by .Mr.
Windham. But Atkins discovered abuses, and one
of those men of the name of Ward, whose rent
for a Barn was reduced from 2001.; to mi. a-year,
made an affidavit against Atkins; which affidavit led

to his dismissal. Atkins- was indeed always pro-
nounced. an
.honest man until he exposed ti-auds,
upon the public, and then he was discovered truly
to be a dishonest man, and dismissed without any
opportunity being allowed him of defending himself
against the charges alledged against him.
_ _ _

Mr. CANNINi:I. asked whether the fa& stated by
the Hon. Member was the cause of the dismissal of
Atkins ?

The SECRETARY at WAR affswered in the nega-
tive, and referred the Right Hon. Gentleman to the
affidavit on the Table, which would explain the
cause to he as he had already stated it.
Mr. WINDHAm said, that he only recommended
Atkins because he found him distressed.
Mr. BASTARD wiShed the pon. M6ver to extend
his Inquiry to Permanent Barracks, in the ereEtion
and repairs of which the grossest abuses were
committed,- and which still were in general inca-
pable of affording any thing like. comfortable ac-
coMmo4atiQn, -
The SECRETARY at War stated, that Atkins had
had an opportunity of defending hiniself before the
Barrack Master General.

After a few words from Mr. Paull, Mr.l-lobhouse,
and Mr. Bastard, the Motion was.agreed to. •
A: Message from the Lords stated their Lord-
ships' assent to the BloomSburysquare Improvement
Bill, the Insolvent' Pehtors"l3ill, the nabob of the
'Carnatic's. Debti Bill, the Irish Schools Bill, and
Slave Trade Shipping

Mr. 40BSONLlicrimt.sappose the Secretary at
War cafable of dismissing the Barrack-Master al-
luded to, or any other man, without reasons- suf-
ficient in his owri mind to justify the aa. He had
no disposition whatever of imputing any thing cul-.
.pabie to the Right Honourable Secretary. The
• Hon. Member proceeded to state the objea of -his
Motion, which was to save the public money; and
he was satisfied that he could suggest-a mode of pre-
venting the expenditure in this Department of no less
than 500,0001.-a year. After a few other,prelimi-
nary observations, the Hon: Member -proposed the
following Motion :
That there be laid before the House a Return
of the Canteens, or. Houses for vending beer and'
liquors, Which' have -been set tap at the several build-
ings rented, or hired by
,Government, and used as '
Barracks, or places for lodging, or containing Of
ficers and Soldiers of the Army, or of persons at-
tached to the Army: That the:said Return do in
clUde every such Canteen in the whole of Greatl2lri
tarn, existing between the of Januaty, 1793, and
the 24th of June, 1,L306.1 That the- said Return be
exhibited in eight columns, placed in the order, and
containing the several heads, here following, viz.
1. The County; Parish, Place, or Station, in alpha-
betical order, in which the Canteen is 9r was si-
tuate. —2. The date of the
.year; Month, and day
of letting each Canteen respeEtively.-3. The name
and rank of the person, or persons; who' let the
canteen.—=4th. The name of the person; or persons,
who rent,•or rented, the Canteen.s. The weekly,
or annual rent of'the Canteen. 6. The name and
rank of the person, or persons,' through whose
hands the rent.- haS been received on the part of
Government.-7. The name, or' Phrase, descrip-
tive of the building so let as a . Canteen:=-8. The
number of Non'-comrnissioned *Officers and men
generally quartered or lodged in the Several buildings
used as 'Barracks, to which such Canteen is, or has
been, attached.". • •

Mr. PAULL, wished to go into an expla,
nation of what he stated upon the former Motion,
but was prevented by the Speaker, who seconded
the Motion. _

After some remarks from_ Mr; WINDHAM, Mr:
ROSE, and• General FITZPATRICK', -

Mr. ROBSON. in, reply, stated-that the ,Bar-1
racks at Sant;lown famed a. nest for smugglers, in
Which beer and spirits were sold without payment of
duty, and asserted that the rent for canteens, of
which very little reache4 the Government, would
pay the whole rent of thetertworary Barracks.

- The Motion was agreed to.- -
Mr. R.QBSON then rose and said; that there was
now no occasion forlum to say any thing to preface
the MOtidn which he was now about to submit to
the House. lie was, however, tempted to read
Some extracAs from the Paper, which he he'd in
his hand (the Memorial of Mr. John Pritchard),
but they.,.vere so scandalous that he thought it
might be as well to forbear. There was one, how-
:,ever, which was. &serving of the particular at-
mtion'sd- the go,Jse. Mrs. Parker, it appelred, a

favoured friend of Major Lewis, took a house, :he
property of Mr. Barton, of Newport, for a fa-
mily, from London, as she said,-at the rent of thirty
pounds a-year. By the advice of Major Lewis,
she let this, house as a mess-rooln, and lodgings for
°dicers, at 701. a year, though it was of no use for
one-third part of the time for which •it was taken.
The owner remonstrated with her for the trick
which she had played ;him, but she replied, that
every body Was robbing Government, and she was
resolYed to have a little in the scramble. The Mo-
tion which he was about to make was, for an Ac-
count of the manner. in which the Manure of the
Cavalry Barracks was disposed of.- The money de-
riyed from this might pay the rent of the Barracks.
He concluded by moving—

" That there be laid" before this House an Ac-
count of all the money received, on- the part of Go.
verntnent,.for dung, ash s, dust, straw, sweepings,
or other things, being articles of manure, and arising
frorn the several buildings rented or hired by Govern-
ment, and used as Barracks, or placcs for quartering
or lodging of -Officers, Soldiers, or Horses of the
Army :---That the said Account. do embrace all the
sums on such-score received, in the whole of Great
Britain, between the Ist of January, 1793, and the
24th of lune. -1806 :—And that the said Ac-
'Count be exhibited in seven:columns, placed in
the order,- and containing the several heads, here
following, viz.-Ist, The parish, place, or station, in
alphabetical-order; Yd, the date of the year, month
and day when such article or .atticles were begun to
be sold as aforesaid ; 3d,.The name or names of the
persons to whom sold ; 4th, The sum or sums re-
ceived ; sth, The name or names of the persons
through whose • hands the said sums have been re-
ceived on the part of the Public ; fith, The time when
such sale ceased (if so) stating the cause of cessation
7th, The number of Non-commissioned Officers and
Men; and the nunibcr of Horses generally quartered
or lodged at each station respeaively."
- This Motion was .reicaed.
Mr. *IA Dad M said, • that if the Han. Gentle-
man' behind him, (Mr. PAULL) wished now to state
the misrepresentation to which he alluded, he be-
lieved that, though not strictly regular, he might be
allowed to do it.

Mi. PAULL said, that he did not think it ne-
cessary to trouble the House any farther on the sub-
jeti at present.

MacClowars Estate Bill was committel—lteport

to-morrow.

• MILITIA OFFICERS' PAY BILL.
Air. WINDHAM moved the third, reading of the
Militia Officerg Pay Bill.

Mr.PERCIVAL observed, that the reason why he
had given notice yesterday of his intention to take
the sense of the House on the ad reading this day, was
with. a view to have a fuller attendance. The material
objeaion to the Bill,which he had before stated, was
the lateness of the period at which it was brought for-
ward.. Considering-that the Militia had till now been.
on the same.footing as to pay with the Army ; that
most of the Militia Officers were now absent on
other duties; that 'net one of those who remained
had voted Nyith Ministers on this question, while'
several voted against them • and that two Servants
of - the Public, the one Paymaster of the Forces
(Temple), and the other a person belonging to the
Ordnance, both Officers of the Militia, had opposea,
the Bill, he thought the House ought to pause be-
fore it assented' to- it. He was sorry-that he did
not , see those persons- now present. But still.'
be must give as touch opposition to this impolitic
measure as he could. He bad already stated the ;ne),-
pediency of bringing forward suclea Measure at this
late period of the Session. The only argument which
*as urged for departing from the established system
Was the point of economy, which, in this'instance,
was quite paltry, and setting the lateness cliche period
out of the question, it was not such as to make it worth
While, on this account, to tun the risk of givingdissatis4`.
faCtion to the Militia Officers. But when we were at
war, and in possession of, the services tf these men,
it was impolitic to give them dissatisfaCtion ; and we
had it from the Militia Officers themselves, that this
increase would do so, not on. account, of being re-
fused the additional pay, but on account of the invi- •
dious distinEtion made between them and the Line.
He thought the objeCtion of an. Hem. Colonel (Bas-
tard) very strong, when he stated that injustice was
done to the Militia; for when they entered they
might, as the Law stood, take it for granted that
they should alwayS be kept on a footing with the ,
line, and, might in justice now claim their discharge.
When the prize-money was taken from the seamen;
it was said that they had no right upon thi4 claim to
their discharge, as theyhad been pressed. He did not
think.that the engagements even with them should be
violated on that account, but this however did not ap-
ply to, the present case. He then went on to state that
he saw no reason why the 7d. a day given to the sol-
diers in the line who had served seven years, should
not be extended to the Militia. At all events it ought
to be extended to the Non-Commissioned Officers,-
who were on the same footing as those of the Line.
He also-objeded to the Bill because it gave Ministers
the power of doing as they pleased on this subjed,
either to give or withhold pay at their option ; and
this-was the reason why an Ildn. Colonel had said
that it 'put the Militia More hi the power of the.
Crown. This measure totally altered the nature of
the Militia System, and was a breach of ParliaMentary
faith. The Right Hon. Gentleman seemed, indeed,
to admit this to a certain degree. It was a breach of
faith, but a little one. He was somewhat like the
lady who owned that she bad had a natural child; but
then it was a very little one. This measure ought at
least to have been proposed in time of peace. He
Concluded by moving that the word ," now" be left
out, and that the words " this day three months" ,
be substituted.

LoidFOLKSTONE, though he supposed it would
be a material obje6tion ?to the Gentlemen on the
other side,' that he .was not a Militia Officer, must
still assert his opinion on the subject 'He maintained
that there was nu reason whatever for any dissatisfac-
tion on the part of the Militia Officers, for they ,suf-
fered no injustice. The Field Officers and Captains
were, by law, required to have certain qualifications,
which rendered- this additional pay unnecessary.—
Besides, they could not reasonably expe4.to be put
exactly on a. footing. with Officers of the Line, who
gained rank through ,toils and dangers, wh4e they
inunediately attained their rank
.ori account of their
property.. The old mistaken ptitociple had heen.d4-
parted from. already, and, besides, it. was a. quite
different service. He would, therefore, support
the Bill,