The Sun.
London, England, 1806-05-15 00:00:00

INSOLVENT• DEBTORS' BILL.

Lord Hoteeen woved the Paler of the. Day for
commiteingebie Bill. , • •
Lord Ft, 144; VBOS 0 UGH dedarg4 that be was
.extremely unwilling to otfer any opposition tt a
neeesUre Which .was Proposed on the grourill of hu-
manity, but. the sense he entertained of his duty
would'hot pare:: hire tolet-this Bill proceed'farthef
,!bo,lt-rtiaking sutrr Obsereatiens upon it. •' HiS 1.
Loreseip .objeaed to dee -frequency of Bills of this
kind. They had recerred so often of late, that the
heaXatiou of tree,seerrity which the law Bete tc.)
di toei: might prove a reaterial injury to ierade. ' The
Peteions ,on the Teble stated _teat the, gaols were
oti eitiewhig ; but, upon ineestigetion ti. would" be be.
found that' many-persons had-vOluntarily gene: into
prison in order to: take advantage of. this Ad : his
Lordship quoted the lists preseetedeo, the House, to
skw- that a, majority of the-persons confined for
debt in elle:Prisons of the-. metropolis had entered. ,
them since laSt, MichtteknaTerro. He believed the
okie.to ,he Much the.,same,: with _respea to the'coue-
try -gaols.; and the consequence was,-that bypassing..
tliis Bill their Lord,hiPs, would set at -1114erty a-num-
ber. of 'pereens who were endeavouring to.
their creditors.. I the right of enforcing the pa4l7,
.ment of debts was thus taken aevey, the present ctee
dines veoeld of:necessity be .compelled-to supply
,the
placee:ol: their' debtors, in prison. He hoped the
house' would not, be induced, by a false irepressiun
of humanity-, to sanction a. measure ;which, upon a
large view of the subjeCt; weeeld 'be. found injurious
to 'some of: the most iMportant interests of society:
The Duke cf•NO.UOLK.supported the Bill, and
observed, "that though a great proportion of persons
,had been imprisoned siace:Michaelmas Term, there
was no proof of any frauchalentintention on their
part.
147-d ,HOLLAND,observed,, that in a conversa-
' tion which had 50111.1 time ago taken place' in
_that'
Hous.e,:it seemed to be the opiniue 'of several.of the.
Most repealable authorities among their Lordships,
that some alteration of- the laws now subsisting he-
tween debtor and creditor was necessary,. It was at
tile same • time. understood, that, from the I ressure
of
.public business, it would be impossible to give
due .consideration' to any general measure on this.
iniportatit sehjeel during the. present Session';. but.
as -there was a general feeling of the' very severe and
oppressive nature of the._ present system, he had
i:odged it-proper:9, introduce this as a means
. atfording relief- to those immediately-
• His. Lordship then replied to the are:Mews of his
Noble and Leartied'Friende He stated, that upon-
aninspeetien of the Journals, it would be found that
Insolvent Bills lied in the :early. part of ail's: reign
been frequent and .extensive than they
were of late. He alluded -to the Bezekrept LaWs,
end-easerved,' that the Bill before the House. put
the creditor Of the. inselvent, debter, on a better
footingehan the creditor of the bankrupt ;' when
the bankruPes dividend' was paid, nothingenore was
to be e'epetted fromliirn ; whereas this Bill secured
to the creditor not only the present property of his
debtor, see hire a claim otehiseeture. acquisi-
tions. le C.';',ld see do reeson to suppose that any
persons inteieeeel ill this Bili exPeEted ;cep'. pass so
far back.es Micheelmas Term. Every kind of fraud'
ought to L,2 severelyenmislied ; but it was not just,.
soli the mere suspicion of efraud, to- withhold relief
from a-vast number of innocent and unfoettaeate per-
soas:. He therefore -hoped their Lordships would
safer the Bill to go izno.t;',2 Committee.
Laid-ELDON said, that. his conduit' had beets
muclernisendeestood if hefhad been represented as
always an enemy to Bills ()flies nature. 'On the cone
trarv, iae had once introduced a Bill for the relief of
insolvent, Debtors into the, Commons ; but' experi-
enceied convinced him that all such measures were
atteeded with mischievous Consequences. He wished
much toeee some general measure adopted, by which .
the creditor and debtor would distinctly understand '
what„ they had to depend upon. In the mean time,
nothing eduld be a more false , principle of legisla-
tion than that on which Insolvent BillS went, which
was this, that- it became necessary to violate the.
law because the jails' were full. His lordship -
theught. that the whole. of the Laws of Debtor and
Creditor required consideration. He pointed out
the,hardship to which a bankrupt was liable, as tour-
fifths of his creditors must concur before he can oh-
tain the benefit of the Ad ; a creditor entitled vnly
to two shillings :and sixpence might turn the scale
against hiM, and prevent him from obtaining his cer-
tificate, however -justly he may be entitled to. it.—
lt was their Lordseips' duty to consider both sides of.
the question, and when they had invesligated the.
lois of the creditor, it would perhaps be very gene-
rous to set the ;debtor 'at liberty ; ',but then their
' Lordshipe uiu t remember that their generosity, cast,
them' nothing. if any general meastire -should be
, adopted, it ought to be tirely prespe.:itiee.

Lercl MOIRA obserrel, that the Noble and terip3-
ed 'Lords had done justice to the obj4iou3.
thii kind which ptrevailed in bis.
had for Many- years in4lAced thot
solu&t.general. measure .-on he 8a hie& mirrh t
adopted. But, at. the same time, he- found
compelled to support the present Big, •iu conse-
quence-of thewant. of. an kTo ther_reme dy. The-re,
seEtion of this Bill would not
.onlYbe illeasure :of
great severity, but of marked injustice, Ile was con-
vinced' Of the propriety of-the Noble 'an& Learned
Lords recOmmendation-toconsider. both side's. of the .
question,--If he did not -so-considerit, be should con-
Si4ktihinil.elf not only .ading on a principle of tithe
humanity,.butdishonestly influenced. He wishecra
strict. investigation into:every kind of fraud to 'take.
place;.. Theobjeelion, however, of persons going
into, prison in_order to take advantage of the
had nothing to do with baud: They might do it .
pot . only very naturally, but: very justly. • They
might throw themselves into prison,with the view, of
lionestlydist.ributing their property among their cre-
ditors:, When .an honest debtor had no means of
paying what be owed, - was repugnant, to every
principle of justice that he should be detained in
prison. If the Noble and Learned Lord considered
imprisonment as a punishment for an injury done
_to
.the creditor, he should be glad to know to
what term that punishment ought to extend. He
remembered reading • in the newspapers two cases
of manslaughter, which had struck him' very,
fbrcil4, as approaching very closely to murder.—
One was thuk case of a farmer in Wales,. who. had
kicked his servant maid so violently that she died of
the bruises, she received. -The PtlkOr was the case of
a deserter killed by a' blow which a Serjeant.gaye hull s
on the heal with his Halbert. He had no cioubt but
the Jury decided rightly in each of these cases, tho' -
in Loth the Shade which.divided them from the highif
est of all offences,coul& only be distinguished by a
very nice discrimination* Yet what was the sentence.
ilstances ? Nlei'4lyiinprisontueritfor one,.
year.- It that Was. thought a 'sufficient punishment,
for such aggravated tminilaughter, what, itppri-
Sonment would the Noble Lord reqPire to s4t!sly
a,creditor. ? If, fraud ;Was proved, fraud be pu-
nished. The longer -this Bill' was iu passing the.
g,-eater injury would be diine the creditor, because
Would be much longer'beforg iw,wpuia be enabled to
.compel the debtor to make-that compeusation.whiek
itmight still. be. 41 his pow6r to agoi-A,
Lord ELL4xBoiouGH, iu explanation, obWved,
the Bill relieved.all prisbners 'in the gross, and there
was therecore no.discrimiugion.

Their. Lordships then divided on the question for
cominl.taing the )3ill.
Contedts Non-contents 5 Majority 6. •
The Bill was committed,pro forma, and an QrJcr
made for its further consideration tc-morrow.
Adjourned. •

MOUSE OF COM4TIONS:,
WEDNESDAY.; MAY• f 4

A Message from the Lords announced their Lord-
!ship;' intention to proceed wikthe trial of Viscount
Melville at ten o'clock to-mbrrow morning.
A person from the Exci:Ae presented an, Aceount
•of.the Quantity of Spirits imported into'Great Bri=
tam from Ireland, pursuant to the order of the
House,—Ordered to be printed.
On: the Motion of .the Suc.R.F,TARY at WAR, the
Mutiny Bill passed, through a Committee. The Re,-
port %Vas- brought up and agreed to; and. dip Bill
ordered.to be read a third tirk.to-Morro*.
Lord HowicK brought up the Report of the Com-
mittee of Supply, the Resolutions of which (fora
proviSion for the tinnily of the late Lord nelson)
were read and agreed to, and lenve given to- bring in
a 'Bill in pursuance.of the,same, •

Mr. ALVLANDER broug Et up the Report of the
Committee on the Irish Treasury ►gills Bill, which
was agreed to, and the BiliGisdeted to be read,a third
time to-morrow.

Mr. VAN'SITTART having moved the Order -of the
Day for the House resolving itself into a Committee
of Supply, ' .
Sir JOHN, ANDERSON rose, and stated a few
wards, the necessity that existed for some assistance
On the. part of Government to the Trustees of Beth-
lehein Hospital, 'to enable them to continue to the
unfortunate persons who were the objeets.of that be-
nevolent InstitutiOn the advantages that they had
hitherto. enjoyed :he therefore moved, that-the Re-
port tethe 'ComMittee on. the Petition from the
Triistees of Bethlehem tiospitai, Iler'efert:ed. to the
ComMit tee. of Supply. • '
Mr: VAN6ITTART having expressed his coincidence
in Opinion With the worthy. Baronet, the Motion was
aveed- to, and the Howie ,having resolved itself into
the-Comumittee of Supply, a W.-solution wrv,, agreo
to; that,-a stud not exceeding. 1.0,9Q01. be granted to
the Trustees of Bethlehem 1-er
poses expressed in tneir ketttion.
The Repert was ordered to be rei•eived to-morrow.
Sir Jou N o au- brought upthe Irish Stamp
Duty Bill,, the Irish Lean hill, and the: Tea
'Duty BJI, all which were read a -first and
de cd :to *be read a 'seCond time on,,Friday.
On .tl.o.?`gotion of Lord 1:1 E y PETTY., the fur-
titer consideration of His Majesty's l'elessage was or-
derect to be referred to the Committee- of.,Supply on
Friciay.
. The ilish Bank Annuity Bill went through a Com-
mittee, the RePort of wnkb was Ordered to be re-
ceived 0-morrow.

Oti the Motion of Mr. PARNm.t„. an Account was
ordered to be laid before the Honse pt. the vanity
of Bank Rotes, including Bank. Post Bills, issued
from the respective Banks of England and. Ireland,
from the tst of Feb. 180, to the tst of Feb..lBo,
distinguishing the amount in the different quarters,
and the Notes under '5l.
• 'EARL •

Mr. JEFFERIES rose in,plirsuance of his no-
tice, '.to call the attention, of the house to the'Papers
on the Table.relative. to the Mnral apartment, and
to bring forward and substantiate his Charges against
Earl St. Vincent, ,for culpable negled and miscon-
duet during the time that he had-been at the head of
the Board of Admiralty. He repeated, 'that upon
his honour he bad undertaken this nations and un-
pleasant task without previous consultation with any
'one whatever, though not ..'.without warrantable
grounds. When he first mentioned the subjeCt in
the House,. however, he had nointention, of pro-
ceeding so far •as he now meant to do.; but he bad
been so provoked by the muted ituravagaut and

pane -.e Jed cUleelerrek of the Noble
Earr.-; fri'ends Clt ci tisine 'when ire felt that
by ine:rsrireS th4,indepenilence an-:1 cety
ine Country I.lh:d be,4lbieatened that he-
,
utidertook his present 4a-k. withopt.ebeing aware
of- ins magnitude. 'his he did not lament; any
farther then A 'he wished •it was in more able
L'isa foreas .h e. puraued hisituaulaiaasalaaao-the
jest, derived- strength. and . confidence from the
'strength of hiS-CiihStia • the prOofsof-which lay in. the.
dOchmentston the Table, to the invesligaticin of whiCh •
he bespoke the candid- attentiou;of the Honse. Bea -
fore he adduced his Charges ita-ainst Earl St. Vincent
for unprecedented neglect •in ,ltis Ade:inistratien, it
would be:necessary for him to sheea, :a hat had; been_
theaneasures of the NOble preclecessora in of=
fice, to:keep up rhe' efficiency and paver of the Bri-
tish Navy. ' After having done this, he should only
have (a task sufficiently ardnous).to inquire, whether
the steps • adopted by the Noble Earl were stich as
to make pro; ision equal to thealemandS of the Coun-
try-, f r kipporting the Navy, dtit-','ng the time that
he was First Lord of the Adoiirally :the .ac-
counts on' the 'Fable it wouldbe seen, that no lessthan 4e sail of the line and 45 frigates had 'been,.
launched. from 1783 to I 7.9, prey ions to the com-
nencetn:.nt of the last War.-,
Or these 30 sail of the
line and 40 frigates. had been I:an:cherl frai-n Mer-
chants yards. This was during a period of Peace,
when a less necessity exi-Stedfortoverrinent'S avail-
ing of the assista'nce - of the'.l;lerchanta;-.yfit'da
than at the time* Earl St. .Vincent's letter, dated
29th Dec. 1804, to the Cant:tett-oiler of the Navy, of
Which he should subsequently speak, allotwithstarad-
ing this great aelivity in bUilding ships dnring the pe.
nod which he had inetnioned, no less exertion had.
been inanifte,aed hi repairing in the -King's }ands
throne:li the whole of that Peace. The consequence,
had been, that at t;,;; commencement of the:War
in 1793 100 sail of the line,: and Stnallea vessels
in proportion, were in complete. order,. and fit
to be sent to any Tart efthe world. The ac-
counts- on the Table would - shew• the way in'.
which the Navy had been afterwards augatien-ta-.
From'Jaiivary 1793, to January 1801- (at-which lat-
ter period Earl 'St. 'Vincent caine'into office), -.l'B'.
sail ,of the line and 46 frigates had been built; .43. "
sail of the line and 66 frigates captured; and 5-sail
of the line and 9 frigates paieb-y.e:ii. making in the
whole 66 sail i of. the: line and va iefrigates ; being at
an average 8 ships of the line and a quarter,: and i 57!
frigates annually. He allowed that. the captured and
purchased ships ought ,not to be estimated 2.S entirely
new ; to deduct aqhird on that accOuht would be :a
'liberal comptitation. •It would then appear that for
the eightyears before mentioned (from-179 j to 180
the Navy had received an aceession of strength,
averaging at6-neaci.ships of the line, and a-quarte6
and 12 new•frigates annually. W Was this increase Of
strength unnecessary ? NO. Great as' had been the
exertions of the .Noble Earl's ;predecessors, they
would have been insuffiCient during the state •of war,
and would not have beeneqUal•tokeep uptheNavy
to its proper:establishment. • Aiship when'new could
not run for more than fifteen years on an average.—
During the greater part of the' last-war, there had
been`.llo sail of the line and 170 frigates in commis-
sion ; so that it would have required an annual sup-
ply of 7 sail of the line and 12 frigates to -support
that establishment. This was ekelusive of contin'-'
gencies and casualities. He would now inquire whe-
ther Earl St. Vincent •had added even 6 ships of the
line and it quarter and l''>-frigates annually to the
Navy, which it rimniff_-_stly. was his duty at least to do,
and whether he left to his successors in office the
power °kiwi:easing, or even,of keeping up the Naval
Force of the Country ? would first state what' the
Noble Earl did with regard to ships of the line. On
the i Bth of February, 1801, when Earl St. Vincent
entered on his office 'of First Lord of the Admiralty,
there were 15 sail of the line on the stocks, viz.
6 in the King's yards, and 9 in the, Merchants' yards.
Between . that period and May, four sail of the line
were captured from the Enemy, so. that without
any extraordinary exertions, without resorting..to-
the visionary schemes that had been in -agitation,
by which it was absurdly said, that 59 sail of tlhe
line could be built annually in
.the yardS,
but merely by following the steady and certain plans
of his predecessors in office; he mightbaveeaccome
plished that which it was his duty to. do. He . halo
however, negle&ted th6e plans, as 'well as every
,Other mode of supply. During. the three years and
three mouths that Earl St. Vincent had been at
the. head- of the Admiralty, ten ships Of the, line
only, had been launched, viz.,sevea in,the Merchants'
yards, and three in the King's yards.. Nor was the
Earl entitled to Muth credit even for these;S
for the whole of the ships built ih the -Merchants'
yards had been contra; for before he came into
office, and two of thOse: built iii the King's ya-rds,.
were so forward at that period, that they • iaere
launched in a few months.• Strange as it might lip,
pear, it was nevertheless true, that. the Noble Earl
had really launched but a siiigle ship of the line of
entirely his own building, froM October 1801 to
May i 804 ! It might appear that he had a6lually.bnilt
three Ships of the line, but this was not the. case:—
TO Earl-St. Vincent was left la ships of the line
building b% his, predecessor; he left but nine to his
successor, five of which nine were absolutely on the
stockS when he came into office.. Fi=em, these nal.
controverfed and incontrovertible fatits, it Was proved
that Earl St. :Vincent hadbeen put in possession by
his.predecessors • of ample nieens to support the Na-
val roree of the Couetry ; but that instead of tht.
filling this:. great object; he had only. launched
10 sail of the line, and put Seven more in:
state that rendered it possible to launch them' in,
three years more. Thus the Noble Earl had not
provided half the number furnished by, his pre-
decessor, 'although he had had Peace in his fa-
vour. rf, however, he had provided as many an,
nually as his predecessor, it would' by no means
have equalled the demands of the Country. So
much for the linezof-battle ships ; now for the fri-
gates. On FebrUary 18, 1801, when Earl St. Vincent
came into office, 11 frigates were building, viz, 4 in
the King's yards, and 7 in the MerchantS' yards ; the
former nearly ready to ' be launched ; the latter in a
state of great forwardness. All therefore that was
' necessary fOr the Noble Earl was, to follow the
system which had been pursued for a series of years
to keep up the establishment. The Noble Earl's suc-
cessor.had built 4 frigates in the King's yards in six
months--7a striking contrast to the supineness and,
negligence Manifested by Earl St. Vincent, who, not-
withstandurg the favourable circumstances in'

was placed, lattnehod -only 12 frigates. during the
whole three years and three niontha 9f his admini—
strationl Ten frigates . had .been captured trona the
Enemy during that period ; the same reduc-
tion from these as'in. the former Calculation, namely,
a third (on, account of their not being new), it would
be fthind that the total number of frigates added to
he44ritisk-Nav thtrirrr the-three yeltrs—an &I-lute-
:months of EarLSt.Vincent's AchniUistratiorrannonnt
eel to 1,9. For the three years preceding the Noble
Earl's entrance upon titE•ceptwelve.frig-ates hadbeen.
annually
.added- to•the Navy, and even: that- addition
was not enough. What then could bethought
the. conduct of Earl .St'. Vincent when it was -evil
dent that instead of making greater exertion-than,his
Predecessor (en increasL; of exertion whiehthe situa-•
Lion of the Country loudly called for),. he had not
done half what his predecessor had done ! .Had the
`Noble Earl only ecinalled his predecesSnr, instead of
nineteen frigates he would haye'added thirty-nineto •
the list. The fata...•Wics, :that Earl-St,Vincent was
only awakened to the necessity of exertinghiMself in.
Providing vessels of this, description just ,before he
quitted office.- He thenzave orders for laying dowt
eights frizates: in 'the yards; 'but these orders
Were attributed 'solely" to the dissatisfaetion which
had evinced itself vvithlregard to. his condnd both In
the House and in the country. ''These orders., how-
ever. were nut at the, tithe enforced, and on the 15th
of MaY,'l 804,: St: Vincent quitted' Office,
he 14.%builling- 041- the -stocks-.in the -King's yards
but one single frigate and no more; nine bad, been
contra4ed far ilk yard*, but .ofthese
oalyfour were just beglin when the Country was fair:-
ttinately'relie-l.froiat the further, naval superintend-
ence of the .Nahle Earl., • He trusted that. ha,viog
liedrd these statements drawn.from.official documents
on the Table, the }.cure woulddh him the justice to
`agin-Owledge that he had •suf.P.:eient grounds for the
investigation which he had undertaten.. Having
thus .proved that Earl St.. Vincent did not make,
the exertiOitsl,NiVll.joi had'dOne; at
a peritid more 'favotirabler thane that in-which, they
_hod aCted,land-in a':sittiation. of the.COuntry which
demanded more, vigeroas measures fie. Weald ask
where-was:the cause of this neg,leEt ?. what extenu-
ation had the Niyhle -E-ari to plead ? Whether there
_ .
di:l•not eXisrt thepecessitY for rnakiii& great exer:-.
tions ? ILad the Noble.Eiri been more fortunate-iii
• capturearont h e• En tiny Dia t4"o:liolitical situa7
tier of thebountry demand leas euergy.to. be displaya7
'Were the preparations, in the OflpOsite ports less
vigorous ? Ai-ere their naval armamems„deserwing
• the.appellation that bitd been hestowed.upon.thein,
by air Hon. Admiral, Of cockle shells ? Hestabmitted,
it tothejcidgi-nent of the House, whether, in every
pOirit of view in which the stabjea could 4)e consi-
dered, the Noble Earl ii id done that which it \vas
.
his duty to do. By a 'reference to the Papers on the,
Table, it would be ,C.ound,' that front Jaaaary.l793,
to Vebrtufry
.1801, b(i sailof the line had been added.
to. the Navy, by building, captures,. end .purchases;
taking away from these 21: for casualties, there
would,reniain an addition:of 45 line-of-battle.ahips.
in eight years ; 121 frigates bad. been_
sin _a similar.
ways added ;_ taking away from these n. for. ea-
snalties, the result of the. whole iit,redid. be 45 of
the line, and Ga.,frigatas in eight years. During
the administration of Earl St. Vincent, from Fe-
bruary 1801, to .May 8Q4,-0'i.)); 1,4 sail Of the. line 14,
been .added taking , away trorn these eleven sir
casualties, there would remain an addition of three
sail of the line in three years andthree.months; s.
tothe_ ft;gates 22 only.had been added,. and 30 taken.
away by casualties, so that there was a'diminution of
8 frigates during the Noble Eilrl" s Adrninistrationer-r•
Earl St. Vin&ent'r, conduca in this respeCt was the.
. more criminal, because he could not plead ignorance
of- of. the necessity that existed for making great exer-
dons. He had declared, to use his OWnempha-
tic language; " that there was an urgent necessity
for building shins all over the kingdom." The-Hon.
Gentleman here read a corrspondence between Earl
St. Vincent .and the Comptroller of the. Navy, in a
letter, of which, the 'above expresQion occurred ; and
also, a correspondence betwieen Earl St. Vincent and.
Sic Lsiii ivepc in relative,to tettdersmade by btiiidera.
to buiideshl pa of war at mil. a toil. in fourteen.days.
after the-Nob-re Earl` had expressed his, seicee of the
necessity of building ships all over' the kingdom,
he capriciously reject theae tenders ? If toe Noble
Earl. had 'changed his mind' about building men of
war. in. yartf, did that remove the neces-
sity for building at all ? Why not build in the
King's yards ? And yet, for thiee, months; Earl St,
Vincent did net give • direCtions to .the Navy
Bard 7 so for build a single ship ! The House
would clearly-'see that• a prokai had. been broach-
ed about that time; by which it' wad 'pretended that
•;fifty'sail of the line could: be built annually in the
, King's yards. ' He should take a future Opporthnity
' sof proving the. fallacy of this' scheme, which was
founded in imposition and deception, and was, in-
deed; very the atatenient Made 'pretty nearly
by the. same.-Authdr, in which rapes had' been
turned into 'pounds sterling; for the purpose Of
criminating a gallant Na -al Officer, The Noble
Earl's inactivity not arise frons aVapt of slips,
for at the time he Went, into office thirteen slips,
out of twenty were unoccupied:. No ; his Lor&
ship had wantonly • diScharged the artificers in the
yards, many •of whom were now at work in the,
dock-yards of the Enemy, and, by his haughty,
and he would say, illiberal condua, he had disguated
all round him at a time when the Navy was fast rim-
ing to destruCtion. proviSion, was; Made either
. for repairing old ships, or blinding new one's., The ,
dock yards were absolutely. without materials: The
Hon: Gentleman here read letters from the tifficers
of the different yards to the Navy Board, complain--
lug of the alarnaing'deficiency in timber, Which in
severakif those yinds did not amount to a be.ggariy.
stock- for a bankrupt shipbuilder. Was that the
mode, he asked, in which,
,the wants of the Bri-
tish Navy ought to be.supplied ? He thought that
lie had succeededin fully proving the.tiegleet of the
Noble Lord.. 'lle would now chew, what was the
result-of that neglect.. In the first place, in cOcse-,
quence of Earl • St. Vincent's having caoric'
yusly
:rejeCted the , tenders• of the merchant buildOas, the. ,
Country sustained" a loss of eoq,oool. ; for the
Navy Board were subsequently compelled to contra..
with those very Merchant builders for the building of
..
ten 74:5, at the advanced rate of 361. a-ton. The rea-
sons assigned by these builders for' thus raising their
' price from their former otter of .c,,61. per ton were,
mat the King's dock=yards had been so exhausted
during the Naval' Administration' Of the Noble-Earl,

that-the-supplying Of theM -VAth tinit)er-bad render-
ed (hat article scarce, and that they had infortna-
tion..:(which inforthation it SubseqUently appeared
came from Sir Thos..Teoubridge) that. Government
had Agents all over, the'Counity for the purpose of
buying np timber. .Thushad. the- Noble Earl' risked
the -safety of:the Country by n illr-judged, aYui
ilkimed•economV. From that danger his successors
Lord Melville- and 'Lord Barham had rescued- it.—
If
•the,Noble•.Earl's system had been persevered in
by his successors,' We sshouid-hoehAre• to -exult in 'anct,
'commemorate the glorious -vi{, ory of Trafalgar,
achieved by that • renowned .and ever to be • -la-
/be-wed-Hero, the • imMortal Nelpt). We should
not have had to rejoice in the subsc-tiacnt complete
izlete* atof the' Enemy by Sir Riehnrd Strachan. We
-should not have had to tritnnpY in their discomfiture
- at St. Domingo Bay, by the gallant Sir T. Duck-
'Worth ; .nor should \ye have witnessed the 'rnore•
• re-
tent exploit of the brave -Sir • 'Warren, in the
capture of the Marengo and.the:-Belle Pottle: Our
•blockdding squadrons would •have beert compelled
to quit their stations; the
.Enemv, would fiaVe ridden
-triumphantly, and -have threatened destrtidion to

.orir shores and our Colopies: Dreadful' as all 'this
would have been, •sneli it would have be-en: The
'Countryin this deg-raded state, huMbled to the dust,
'would haVe been com Felled to aE.cept any terms that
insolent Conqueror iiiigiit have condescended to iila
'Pose. He referred to the 'Plan. for retbrin ing fife dock
yards Offered to. Earl St. Vincent by the Master
-!ShipWright'of 'Plymouth Yard; • and adopted by the
Noble Earl on .the..recornMendation alone of the
brother of •the proposer, who was. his 'friend' and
Confidante and contended ,that, the 'plan had not
'been apprOl;ed. either by the Navy 'Board' or by a
single other Offic,er in -His 'l‘injesty's yard's.. ,The
Navy Board, hbwever, expressed their willingness to'
tomply with 'Earl St. 'Vincent's, wishes in that re-
sPeCt • but the .N ogle Earl 'took care: not-to rotttnit.
himself by any•positiVe orders-, so' as to bring on
himself a .heavy responsibility. It wonld.require all
the exertion of the Noble' Lord, now at the head Of
the Admiralty•te.avert the evils which still. resulted
4-frolan the measures of' Earl St. Vincent, by which
eventually, he did not suppose 4signedly, he hatt
-proved so :great an enemy to his. country.—ln
confirmation of this statement, he would row.
-Clew how the Noble Earl had negleCtedanother im-
Portant part of his duty; he meant the repairing of
the ships in the Navy. In -.oCtober,-;.1801, -fifteen
pail Of the line only were in ordinary, ten of which
Stood in need
,of repair. Between Oelober 1801
and March 180;3, 114 were paid Off, two of which
cult' were 'in good condition; sb that in Oct; 1-801,
120 sail of the line must have stood in need
of repair. The vessels requiring repairs were
divided into seven different classes, beginning with
'that class which required the greatest, and ending
with that which required the least. En O&. 1801,,
Of the ships of the line needing repair, the ,ac-
Count stood as follows : Of the first class .(those
requiring themest repair), 14; of the second, 38 ; of
the third, 14;* ofthe fourth, 22 ;,of the fifth, 12; of
sixth; :16.; of the seventh (or class requiring the
#,a.st
.repair), 4. The number of these aanally repair- •
ed•bytEarl St. Vincent were : Of the Ist class, none;
of the second; 5; of the third, none; of the,4th,'4.; of
the fifth; 3'; -of 'sixth, to; and of the seventh,
all. Thus in two years and eight, months he Noble
Earl caused only 26 sail of the line to be repaired,
anti-:those too chiefly of the classes requiring the
least repair. The proportion therefore, which those
that' he repaired bore to those that he failed to re;
Pair, fen far ,short of the _numerical proportion of
-26 to. 120. The only way to estimate the true
Proportion would be,.. by.the-expenceof the works. '
slim-151.:1ip... NOW for a 74, the expence attending
the fie.pairS of: the different classes before mention-
ed, wereas folloWs.:—For the first Wass., 14,0001: ;
for the second, 11,1;6'01.5. thirk 8000 E.; for
the fourth, 4-50 W: ; for the fifth, ;a0•01. ; for the
2500). ; and for the-seventh, VerT small sum.
I\lbwithe whole expence of the workmanship on the
26 sail of the line repaired by Earl St.:Vino-ea,
'*'hen calculated on the above scale,' amounted tootoo,,
. 1.1.8,0001. While the Whele • amount the
'eXpence_ for the repair's" necessary for the 120, •
11111olinte'd to 980,0001. So that the.proportion
what Was done. to what*.was required was, in two
Years. and,eight months, as'one" to eight. According
to this-statement, the Noble Earl weuld have been
twenty years in repairing the Whole ! Lowing out
of the the consideration; that after repairs
a ship could not be eipeCted to run above five years
Without additional ones. In this respect he was sure
might leayetheHonseto form their own judgment.
Ile repeated, EarrSt. Vincent did net awake from
the lethargy in which he was sunk, , Until within a
an"nth of 'the issuing of press-warrants (before:the
Commeneement of the ;War)'; yet who that, saw
the correspondence carrying on between England
and. France during the whole. of the period between
.the signing of th:Definitive Treaty and the breaking
• out of hostilities,. burought to have anticipated the
consequences, and haVeL endeavoured to place tl-te
-,'"avy of the Country in a state that might render
It fit for either alternative
._, The condu6t of the
noble Earl had been of' an opposite description.
die built few ships ; he repaired few
,shins ; he-dis-
charged shipwrights'; he even ordered 7000 tons
of cordage to be sold, .from a niggardly economy,
t° avoid the expence of store rooms, when a few '
nouths after Government were obliged to purchase
600 tons, at an advanbed price. of 521. per ton.
----When the Noble- Earl
,came' into office, .102
Q.ll of the line were in commission ; in 006er, t 802,
22 sail of the line *ere in commissionfiere was
a,,,1,1 increase of 20 -Sail- between :Feb. and Od.
ron. Admiral had talked a great deal'of this increase,
.`.-1t Was it to be attributed to Earl St.-Vincent ?
; the. Country. was indebted for it to Lord
Pencer, by whose measures the greater part of
those ships had been advanced in proportion...—
Mien the. Noble Earl quitted office, however, in
"„ "sequence- of his /injudicious administration, all.'
that lie could, Muster wars 188 sail eltheline. Not
another could,' at that time, be sent to sea! There
was great reason to believe'that the representations
of Of on this.subjed had not been properly at-
t
„etnled to. kneW of one, but, he would avoid
?ecifying it. As to the deficiencies in timber, the
I.lllolll}' of timber for the Navy had never failed !on-
Earl St. Vincent's administration. In the eight
;leaf, imindiately preceding that. administration
aver.i,,,e yearly supply. was •32,900
i!le Noble E-ri, however, .centrived to' reduce it in
03 to 19,000 loads, and subsequently only be-
• ek, ' •
in •

. „
-tweed wrote fY et* he annual ,
expenditure of the Navy was above 30,000 loads ;
so- that the consequences would-have been dread-
, indeed; had the wire systent Colatinued.
saw that it was intended to attribute all this diniinu-
tian of 'supply- to 'the Na-Vy43oard, "bnt this Ntkas
rrlzsrepresentatinti. . :The true cause was, the'ststetri
of tyranny which, under the administration of the
Noble. Earl, was .unhippily,-introdticedihto, every
department of 'the '`ay. The mod :in 'whiCh
timber .miasspurehaeedjWaS, by the met'cllArits,
ing it .to the ,-Kings..ylrds, where a :person Who
was called the tiMber-master, examined it, and ac=
ceptihg what he those, 'the 'rethainaC..l itras taken
away at-the expellee of the mer Chant. Now the re-
gulations .introduced St. 'Vince& alarmed
the timber master (Wlio was liable to.becalled, tin ac-
Cohht "for hls. dondliet), and indueed him to be more
scrupulous hi his choice. 11c conseqUence was, that
the Merchants were put to infinitely' greater expense
than before, and at length Were deterred from send
in any tinnier at all to :the yards. These regula-
tions Were as Unnecessary ;mid impcilitic as they were
arbitrary for the fact was, that interior timber(Which
of course was purchased .at an inferior price),' was as
useful in sortie parts of ship-building as perfect -tim-'
bet', 'and indeed.it would be impossible to pro-
rure.in this country perfect timber enough for all
the purposes. to which
.timber was applied. The
Honourable Gentleman then contended; that all-the
efforts of the 'Navy Board to procure 'a supply Of fo7
reign' :timber-had-beet frustrated' by the injudicious
measure; of the Board of .Adniiralty. He had no
hesitation in Saying, that the removal of Lord St.
front
Vincent that Board,hjd saved-the Navy. The
supply of timber the dock-yards ought to be full
-30,000 loads annually. In 1802 the 'supply was re-
duced to 23,000 loads; and•iii 1.863 still -further to
17,000, which afforded :a proof of the shameful
neglect of Earl' St. Vincent with respe& to the re-
pairS'of. the 'Navy and the supply of. timber. The
Von. -Gentleman then _read a long string of Resolu-
tions, founded upon and affirming the various.state-
ments contained speech, and concluded with
a 'Resolution,

" That itantrars.to the House, that Earl St. Vincent had
:ken guilty of great neglect, misconduct, and dereliction of
ltis 'duty, whilst"he hau'held the office of First Lord of *the
Adm i ralty . "!

The Hon. Member then moved, that theseßeso-
lutiatts be referred to a Committee of the whole

House. •
The SPEAKER acquainted the Hon. Gentleman,
that he might, either Make a MOtion' upon any 'one
of his Resolutions, or•move, that the. Papers on the
Table shoUld- be rthrred to a Committee of the
whole House ; bdt that-he could not move that
what he called Resolutions should 'be'referred. to a
Committee.

Mr. JEFFERY. then moved, that the several Paper
.on the Table Of the Hoilse, relative to
tEarl St. 'V iu-
ent, should be referred to a Committee ofthe whole
House.

- Mr. DENT seconded the Motion, but would not
pledge himself to any thing moie,than the Question
he then seconded.

The SPEAKER, before he should put the ques-
tion, thought it necessdry to call the attention of the
House to the present circumstances of the case.-
The Hon. Member had, for the greater patt of the
'evening, read his statements and arguments, in sup-
port of his Resokttions, froth awritten speech. This
was a prailice,net usual in their •proceedings, and he
had expec=ted that some Gentleman would have put
ai stop to it. MotiveS of delicacy had prevented him-
self'from, interrupting the, Hon. Gentleman; but
•flow„that the Hon. Gentleman had gone through-his
statements, he felt it his duty to call the attention of
the House to the sUbjed, lest the practice should 17e
drawn into precedent.
. On the QUestion being pnt,
Admiral MA RKHA 111, in offering himself to re-
'what he conceived to be one of the most un-
founded ebarges.that had: ever .been brought forward'
in that House; lan-tented that the business had not
fallen into abler hands, and that he had not the ad-
.vantage of, a Written document to assist him. He had
also to lament, that'during-the whole course of the
proceedings on this subjeet, the Hon. Gentleman had
declined 'giving the, 'Slightest hint of the point to
which his attack was to be dire6ted..He knew nothing
betbre twelve-o'clock that morning of theßesolutions
of the Hon. Gentleman, and if he bad-been acquaint-
ed with them in time, he would have saved the
House the trouble of ordering. the large volume of
Papers which he had thought it necessary for the
justification of his Noble Friend to move for.
Since he had receivdd .the copy of the Resolu-
tions, he had been engaged by his 'official du-
ties, :and had not had leisure -to examine them..
Flaying, premised thus Much, he should proceed to
repel the Charges made by the Honourable Gentle-
man. The first point to which the Hon.Gentleman:s
charge went, respected the building 'of ships in gene-
. The Hon. Gentleman bad stated, that between
1793 and 1801, 66 ships of the line had been :built,
including the captured ships. This was an unfair
statement. Wltat,had Captured Ships to do with the
Measures of the Admiralty for building shipS for the
Navy. Leaving out the captured ships, therefore, as
he contended ought in, fairness to be done,- the
Whole number bniit in the -King's and MerchantS'
docks in the period alluded to was, in 1393', two,
.1794 two, 1795 one, 1796 six, 1797 two, 1.798. se-
`yen; 1799 none, and in 1800 two; in all sail.
By those documents on the Table it would appear,
on' the other hand, that from Feb. 1801, to April,
1802, three sail of the line had been built; between
Apri1,18,0;,,, and. March;lBo3, two sail; and between •
,March, 1803; and May, 1804, five sail ; making in:
the whole, ten sairof •the line, in little better than
3 years, that Earl St. Vincent had been at the head Of
the Admiralty, whilst in the antecedent eight years
.only twenty-two sail bad been built'. The House •
would, in looking at that statement; see whether
there had been any deficiency on the part of Earl
St. Vincent. .He -came next to the state in which
he left this part of the Service. It appeared . that;
when Earl St. Vincent came into Office; there bad .
been fifteen ships of the lineon the Stocks, and when
be went out of Office he left eighteen sail, in order
to be built. The Hun. Gentleman might say; ay! .
but where are they ?—The orders had been given
by the Admiralty to have them built, and so
far as. 'the Admiralty was Concerned, it mattered
not whether they had been gtuallY begun or net.
There was nothing novel in this'. ,Ships were otten
many 'years after being ordered before they were

_-.~--=

•
`the IkAiniraltyluid :only to give the orders;:
together with direr-how respecting-the site; dimen-
sinns,'&c. and it *as then the dutyof tbe, Navy Board.
to execute these orders, If he was int:erre& in this;
there Were persons in the House that Could correct hint.
If the order's had not been' e.E xecutec4'dH St/Vin-
cent was no more to blame than with 'rope& to the
supply:of_timber, whicb he .should.afterwards ,touch
upon. When an order is made by the Adthiralty; the
'lSlavy Board makes rip: the 'estimate voted byParha-
ment,,and, if the. Money, be not applied -as' voted, the
'fault must rest with the Navy. Board. Besides the.
ships of the line left building by Earl St. Vincent; he
left 20 or 21 frigates 'building, one of which, the
.Irannon, was soon after laundied, tho',-since lost 'on
the Coast France ; and °fah& -others; 14 were tleiv
at sea. He 'left also 32 sloops .and 21 gun-beigs
building, all of which Were now at sea. He had' in-
, creaSe& the numberuffritzates frOm 183 to-195, being
an increase Of frigates and ships of the , line from
eB5 to 3.17. This topic he-ShOuld not have touched
npon, if the .-Hon. Gentleman had
.not made use of
the ocCasion.to dam& -frnm the merits of Earl St.'
• Vincent. He came next to onsider the Charge re=
Spe&ing- the- repairs of ships. Tbe I louse wotld rea7
,dily be sensible that, after a long/and expensive War,
the ndmber of. ships that would rennire repairs'
must have been prodigious.' The Hon. Gentleman
Shad said that only 15 Were laid- up in ordinary.;
if so, then, what. was the inference, but that' the rest
wanted -repairs ? It was not only necessary to' build
and, repair Ships, but also to preserve 'them when
bUilt or; repaired. Some money was obtained- forthe
public, and a considerable saving in ,shirOteeping, &t.
the warrant officers being sent to thesVps building.
The Hon, Admiral here read au extra& from the or-
ders- of the Board-Of Admiralty in 'Feb.- 1803, re,
spelling the 'repairs of vessels, and contrasted them
•with an order to the same effe& in 1783, to thew.
how much more urgent they were.
:The guns were
put on board, and all necessaries, and heavy stores,
and even the ships 'had been stored. The-reasons
why the Admiralty had, determined not-to get .re-
pairs done in the merchants' yards be should state to
the House. In the Papers on the Table -would be
found a list-of it:3 ships repaired in merchants'" yards.
The, Hon. Admiral 'was proteeding to State the na-
ture of these cases, when
Mr. JEI4'fiRY rose to order, on the ground that
the Hon. Member was travelling into matter irrele,'
taut to his Charges. And was himself called to order
by Lord.HOWICK, who insisted that the Hon. Ad-
miral was perfectly correct.
fldiirircrl MARK:IIAM proceeded.—He was sur-
prised .at the interruption, but the Hon. 'Gentleman
may have reasons for it which he could best explain.'
The Hon. Admiral then stated several instances of
enormous charges for repairs of vessels in the Mer-
chants' Yards, both before the late War and since
the commencement of the present War. From the
former period he quoted the .repairs. of the Swift-
sure, of 32 guns, at 12,3921. though the original cost
of the vessel was but 7,9431.; the Maidstone'S re-
pairs '10,9431, original cost 63741.; and another ves-
sel, the case of which lie :called 'a bouncer, repairs,
• 15,4811 original.cost 9,7301. , From the; latter pe-
riod he cited the case of the Powerfial, , first cost
31',2301. estimated repairs 20,7051. repairs charged,
30,7161.; also the Lion,, in 180,5, which cost :new
21,3531. and the repairs of which had been es-
timated by the Chatham Officers at 24,7351. but
charged in a Merchant's Yard at_ 61,1091. He came
then-to the Charge of having wantonly discharged
men from the Dock-yards. The number discharged
was 327, -Who, blind and I=6, were incapable
of work, but yet received the highest wages hi the
respeOive Yards, These Were superannuated, and
a farther addition made to the former ,superannua-
tion allowance. To supply the place, of those men
390 apprentices were introduced between June 1802
and May 1804, all of. Whom were now capable of
taking a man's birth. The Hon., Gentleman had
said; that Earl St. Vincent deserved no credit-for the
late.vielorie.S. Bat he shotild say '-that it was Earl
St. Vincent that first noticed Lord Nelson,'when he
commanded the Againemnon, a 64, in' the Mediter-

ranean : it was he also who made that happy se-
- leaion that detached Lord Nelson to Egypt.—
Str Richard Straclian, who was treading fast in
the steps of Earl St. Vincent and 'Lord Nelson,
and Sit John Duckworth, had been bred. under
him, and the Noble Earl therefore derived some
credit froin their successes. It had never been
said that fifty ships of the line could be built in
'One year, bur_that the men employed in His Ma-
jesty's Dock-yards would .be sufficient to build that
number if employed 'solely in building. The .Ho-
nourable Admiral to prove this, made a compara-
tive statement of, the numbers of men employed
in. -the Merchants. and King's Yards, and of. the
tonnage of shipping produced annually in each,
thcresult.of which was favourable to his position.
As' to ,the supply of timber, the Honourable Ad-
miral asked; 'why, if it was posSible to procure it,
the order of the Admiralty, dated 177'6, fox keep-
ing 66,000 loads always seasoned, had not been
complied with ?—The quantity of timber obtained
had been decreasing, during the American War and
since. In 1775 it was 50,000 loads;' in 1784 the
supply had been but 29, iO7 loads ; and in 1786 it
was 1.,880 loads. After a long War timber must be
scarce, and this scarcity was attributed, in a Letter
from the Navy Board in 1785; to the number of
ships', built h the Merchants' Docks. When 'bad
ships were built in the Merchants' Docks, and came
soon afterwards to be repaired in the King's Yards,
this .produced an additional consumption of timber..
The Hcin. Admiral then.. referred to some cases of
an extraordinary nature, respethng the amount of
repairs .required by the Ajax and Achille, built in
the Merchants' Yards, shortly after they were
launched. He then detailed the various measures
taken by Earl St. Vincent to provide a supply of
timber for the Navy; first, by an order for 10,000
loads of timber from the 'Banks of .the Rhine,•then
by sending to have the timber ofTrinidad surveyed;
next by direfting that the large-ships which carry
conviEts to Botany Bay should bring home timber;
and lastly, by ordering a ship of the line, and a fri-
gate, to be built at Bombay, both of
,which had al-
-ready been launched. •
Lard GIRLIES having listened- with attention'
to the able statements' of the Hon. Oentlem'an_who.
Opened this debate, and the:Hon. Admiral opposite,
thought the whole question 'Cenfered in this paint—
‘,Vhether the building in' the King's'Yaitts could of
ford.a sufficient supply without the, assistance of the
Merchants' Yards r Be Itne\i' there ii;as an opiulon,

. , • ,
that- by a dirferent the lahtitii, the
. nW .
building in the King's Yards might b'e'OrtiiiiB
produaicie. The expeiiment was desirable.; hut
to apply the general-theory at once to priktiee ray
be attended. with mischief. With . respect: t 9. the
Motion" before the House, had no heSitatian tcs
vote against it; -for though there were 'some things
in 'Earl St. Vincenet •vsysttth whith he.did not ap-
prove of, he was certain he ailed for the hest ; and
his transcendent talents and-setviaes demanded; that
sinless a crearer -inference of default were made out
:against him, ito-:censure Of :arty kind should be al-
14:).ved to a :Ye: a him.

. ,
. .
Lord .1-10 WIC K. could nobc. agree with the Noble
Lord Who had spoken last, that the questioo was
solely Whether' the building irk. the .King's Yards
could suffice :wlthOut the building in the :Nierchanti'
Yards. But even ifit were, the Consequences which
were-stated in the proposed Resolutions of the Hon.
Gentlemaii,cpnld. not follow. It was swreng to im7
pute any criminality to an honeSt opinion, that a
-better application of the Means the King's Yards
afforded would lessen, if not 'entirely do .away our
dependence, on the . Merchants' I ards. He could,
not helpinSti4g„ the extraordinary condna of thd
non. Gentleman who brought.forwardtheChargesi
'and the Hon, Gentleman who seconded them.-,-L
When the Hon. Mover had finished his Speech
and read his Charges, he :concluded, not with
.moving his first, article,: but" with moving that the
House should go into a Committee, without any
distina .objea,, satisfied; he Said, with haring
horthened .his own shoulders of the lead of these
Charges. Then the Hon.• Secooder disclaimed any
intention of supporting the Charges, because he did
not
.understand theme but he second 4-1 them 'fer
the purpose of bringing then before the Hotise:'
He did not think -.this fit treatment for a man who,
had' done so much tot the glut y and the greatneSs
of the Empire. Lord St. Vincent w:is never uDine
Or inaftive-When,he had to engage the Enemy : and
.a Charge cf supineness in.. a duty no less Important
was not slightly to be,sUffered to rest on bin-1.--;
He came now to the- distina points., of .Charge.
The sale of stores was tecommended by the Nay
Board ; , and therefore the Noble Lord stood ae-•
quitted of all blame fbr that. The enantity was
but a supply of three weeks. He 'allowed that
the Admiralty was chargeable with' the errors
of the Navy Board, when they either permitted
these errors by:negligent supervision,
.or terced the
Navy Board into them by unreasonable commit],
He would sliew the House that Lord St. Vincent
had not-been guilty of either of these charges.—
The nuniberOfships of the line in commission, which
was•on the close 'of the last war 1,22, was reduced
On the peace to thirty-six., It was on the 'break=
lug, out of the present war increased by 'Earl St.
Vincent,- in .one year, from thirty-six to eighty
eight.;
.and this:though the vety.charges which im-
puted so much negligence allowed that there were
but two ships in the Navy A.VlaCh did•nnt want repair
at the close of the war. The nett year the-numbers
rose from 88 to 94 ;, now it was 1:0,1, awl there were
Ythore ready to put in commission. Immediately.
after'Earl-St. Vincent left the Admiralty, a Supply
-was proposed for the urgency of the occasion, by
the purchase of 12 East liidiarnen, 12 Occip4, 10.
gun-brigs, and 12 gun4esselsof an inferior class..
Only four of these East_ IndlAmen were parchaS
ed. One of them which cost 26,8121.'0h' mat:=
ing a single voyage .as , convoy to a fleet of India=
men, was deserted by the whole, from the know.,
redge of the badness of hersailing. The \sVeyinoUthe
the ship he alluded-to, cost- the immense "-Price Of
321. per ton. If Lord. St. Vincent had laid down
eight sail of the line, abd had given orders to lay
down 103 ships, and 14 frigates, of which 39eschoeners;
and other smaller vessels, making altobether'•B9-,
were in commission, what room was Lit fi)r A
charge of negligence against him? Sixty-one sail had
been repaired, Of which 40 were of the line; and tbi
Was the man who was said to have ruined the 'Na'v'yi
who, if he had, till now continued in office, would
have
,prevented the vitilories of Trafalgar, Sir John
Duckwortheand Sir Richard Strachan.' It was net
Thir to include captures in comparative accounts of
the building and rep4ifs: If that were allowed',
Toulon might be made superior to Trafalgar, for of
'the ships captured at Trafalgar only four had been
saved. There, was besides a peace of eighteen
months in Earl St. Vincent's Administration. These
considerations proved that the Noble Earl had done
-.every thing in the-way of building and repairing fiat
the maintenance of the Navy. He allowed-it was
de duty of the First Lord of the Admiralty to keep
up the Fleet-to that high amount which the circum-
stances of the times required. Here the Noble
Lord went into a long comparative statement of the
number of men in the King's and the Merchants'
Dock-yards, and the number of tons of shipping
built in both, for the ptirpose of shelving that, by
proper regulations, more work may. be done in the
King's- Yards than was at present. lits Lordship
now went over the various statements made by Ad-
miral Markham, with respect tothe different sup-
plies of timber procured by Lord St. Vincent, from
which- it appeared that every thing practicable' had
been'done y and concluded by observing, that the
Hon. Mover having ,lao objel, the Seconder being
ignorant of the nature of the ChargeS, and the
Charges being wholly without foundation, he would
vote dire&ly against the Motion.
Mr: DENT, -in explanation,: said his obje& in se-
conding the Motion was, to have the question set at
rest for the satisfaaion of the Country.
ColOnel Bastard, Mr. Tyrwhitt, Mr. Osborne.
Markham, and Mr. Banks, defended the condu&
of Lord St. Vincent.

Mr. Fox contended, that the whole of the Chargei
were frivolous and unfounded; that no argument
had been adduced ori the opposite side to substqn,
tiate any one of them, while the arguments urged.
on his side of the House were completely unan-
swerable• - '

Mr. inrrEhrs foltowed in a long and general
reply, during which he was 4called to order, fi)r,
reading a string of new arguments as part of his
Speech. Much conversation arose upon the -point
of Order;_ after which the Question was put and
carried - without a division.

Mr. FOX then observed, .that consequence of
the manner in which the Charges had been made
amainsi the Noble Lord, without any proof to sub-
stantiate them, ha felt himself obliged to havexe-
cothie to a mode of proceedinglittle perhaps pur=
sued, but which was not howtver without pree,edent
for a similar mode had been, adopted in the cases, of