The Sun.
London, England, 1863-03-07 00:00:00

ME SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, MARCH 7, 1863.

they were dealing with a small Power, the noble lord inva-
riably used bullying language. And when dealing with a

first- rate Power—one that would not be bulliceLhe ex-

pressed himself in cringing language. The noble lord here
referred to several cases wherein British subjects had been

injured by powerful States, some of which 'I: had himself
brought under the consideration of Government in that

house—one of them being the case of Capt. Macdonald, a

gentleman who was treated with injustice and indignity by
the Prussian Government, and said that in those cases the

noble earl had failed to insist upon proper and becoming
redress of the wrongs complained of ; and thus it was, he

submitted, that the noble earl always cringed to the strong,

while, on the other hand, he bullied the weak. (Hear, hear.)
He (Lord R. Cecil) liked the expression Civis Romanus
sum, a favourite expression of the noble lord at the head of
the Government, but one which the Government only as-
serted the dignity of when they had to deal with a weak
Power. They were now dealing with a friendly Power, one
that had been always friendly and faithful in her dealings
with the British nation, and one which, if they persisted in
doing injustice to, would never forget it. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. BUXTON considered that no question of home
politics could vie in real moment with the maintenance by
England of a gentle and generous policy towards foreign
nations ; andalthough he had come to the conclusion to
support the Government, still he must enter his protest
against the tone which marked one portion of these pro-
ceedingc. There were serious grounds for believing that
some of the crew had been murdered, but of positive proof
of the fact there was not a particle, and undoubtedly the
blame of the obscurity rested with Consul Vereker. Earl
Russell was certainly not justified by the circumstances
of the case in making such violent complaints—much less
in enforcing a claim for compensation by violence ;
and it was much to be regretted that Mr. Christie
had written such insulting despatches. Up to that
point, then, he thought that Brazil had not been

treated with the forbearance and magnanimity which

ought to mark the foreign policy of England. However,
by his subsequent offer to arbitrate in the matter, Earl Rus-
sell had atoned for all his former severity, and had esta-
blished a precedent that might be of the highest value to
mankind. (Hear.)

Mr. C, BENTINCK held that it was most unreasonable
to call upon a foreign country to do more than its own forms
of law authorised. All that a country could be &Aced to do
was to act bona fide in the matter under dispute. Repri-
sals were only allowable on occasions beyond all question.
He:should not be at all suprised if this case turned out in
Ai results exactly similar to the claims enforced against the
Neapolitan Government, and against the Greek Govern-

ment in the instance of Boa Pacifico. There was little or
no evidence to show that the Brazilian Government had
been at fault. He would not go the length of charging Mr.
Consul Vereker with positive untruthfulness, but he was
justified in saying that that gentleman could not be consi-
dered a very reliable witness. What the house had merely
to decide was this, had the Brazilian Government extended
the same justice to England as it would have done to its
own subjects? In conclusion the hon. member expressed a
hope that the Government would inform the houso why
they should seek to enforce from Brazil claims which they
would not enforce from any other power.
The SPEAKER then put the question, and, as no occu-
pant of the Treasury benches gave any indication of
speaking,

Mr. S. FITZGERALD said that surely the Government
were not about to allow a case like this in which the honour
and the justice of England were involved, to pass in silence
and without the slightest notice. He had not intended to
address the house until after the feeling of the Govern-
ment had been stated; but referring now to the speech
of the honourable and learned member for Ply mouth, he
must say that he had never heard one more adroit and
astute, but at the same time more unfair. The circum-
stances of the case, as the noble and learned member dwelt
on them, were such as to render it necessary that they
should be adverted to and commented upon. The position
of the Government was peculiar, because the ground on
which they based a claim for compensation from the Bra-
zilian Government was the neglect of the Brazilian
authorities, by reason of which losses had been sustained by
British subjects. Firstly, as to the alleged case of delay.
It must be remembered that the empire of Brazil had been
established for only 40 years, during which, owing to the
ability of those who had been placed at the head of affairs,
and the good faith they had shown in all their relations
with foreign powers, they had converted a small province
into a flourishing empire, with a credit and a reputation
which no one, 40 years ago, could have conceived it to have
been possible to have attained. It must be recollected that
the Government of Brazil established order ; had instituted

judicial tribunal and regulated commercial relations in a
country with a long extended line of coast. In consider-
ing the particular case now under discussion, it was neces-
sary to look at what had been done in good faith by the
central and local authorities of a country like Brazil, and
not to institute comparisons with regard to what would have
been done in a country like ours which had been under
settled law for centuries. The noble lord the member for
Stamford in his speech seemed inclined to admit that some-
thing like, neglect on the part of the local authorities might
fairly be brought as a complaint against the Brazilian Go-

vernment. He (Mr. Fitzgerald) was not prepared to admi

even so much. It must be borne in mind that the wreck 01
the vessel in question occurred on the Bth or 9th of June,

on a part of the coast distant 73 miles from Rio Grande do
Sul, a distance which it took Mr. Consul Vereker, with all
his zeal and energy in the case, two days to ride over, and
that not without considerable exhaustion. The Brazilian
officials had to come the same distance to the spot, to make

inquiry, and to report to the local authorities at a place 78
miles distant. The wreck having taken place on the Bth or
9th, a report was sent to Rio Grande do Sul on the 12th.
On the 15th the consul set out on his return to Rio Grande,
wrote to the delegate of police on the 18th, the delegate of
police gavo orders in compliance with the request of the

consul on the 19th, and on the 22d the matter was ra-
ferred to the municipal judge. The paper relating to
the case reached England on the 2d of September, and
on the 6th of that month what was the course

taken by her Majesty's Government ? Why, on the ex parte
statement of NI r. Consul Vereker, and the proceedings of
the Brazilian authorities before them, Mr. Layard, by direc•

tion of Earl Russell, writes that "it was evident there had
been gross negligence if not misconduct on the part of the
Brazilian local authorities, and that there was every reason
to suspect the plunder of the cargo and of the effects of the
passengers, and even the murder of some of the survivors
from the wreck, had been the result of that negligence ;"
and the British Minister was directed "to lose no time in
calling the attention of the Brazilian Government to the
case, and request that a necessary inquiry might be insti-
tuted with a view to the punishment of the parties convicted
of negligence, or of being concerned in the plunder of the
vessel, and that those who might be convicted of outrages
on those who survived the wreck might be brought to jus-
tice." Taking the circumstances of the case step by step he
(Mr. Fitzgerald) would ask the house in the first instance
whether, in reference to the charge of negligence against
the local authorities in not instituting an investigation,
looking at the dates which he had stated, there was any
ground for the allegation of her Majesty's Government that
gross negligence had been committed on the part of the local
authorities in Brazil, so far as judicial investigation was
concerned ; and that the Government had taken a course in
these transactions most arbitrary and oppressive. No coun-
try in the world had been treated with greater consideration
and in a more friendly spirit by the Government of Eng-
land than the empire of Brazil. From the earliest period at
which the empire of Brazil had been established, the Go-
vernment had shown a desire to conciliate English feeling
and promote commercial relations between the two coun-
tries, and to do everything which would tend to preserve
the most friendly relations between them, and therefore
Brazil ought at all times to be treated with every conside-
ration. But he regretted to say that the very reverse had
been the case, and this particular instance was only one of
a long course of afronts cast upon the Brazilian
Government by that of England, and principally and espe-
cially during the time in which the noble lord (Palmerston)
had been in office. The greatest outrages on international
law had been perpetrated by the Government of England
against that of Brazil, and in one particular instance the
British Government had acted towards that of Brazil in a
manner which they would not have dared to act in regard
to any other nation in the world. He alluded to the case
of the mixed commission, in which the British Government
had utterly disregarded and literally torn up a convention
which had been entered into between the two governments,
thus leavin; the claims of numbers of English and Bra-
zilian merchants unredressed. He asked the house to con-
sider the present case as another exemplification of the
spirit in which her Majesty's Government acted towards
Brazil. 'When her Majesty's Government spoke of delay
in this case on the part of the Brazilian Government, he
would refer to the delay which had taken place before her
Majesty's Government presented their view of the case to
that of Brazil, It was not until the Bth February that Earl
Russell made any allusion to the subject of compensation.
There was a delay of eight months in making any claim on
the Brazilian Government at all; for up to that date the only
complaint made was that due diligence had not been used
by the Brazilian authorities in investigating the case in
question. But on the Bth February he wrote, urging that a
more searching inquiry should be made, with a view to
the detection of the guilty parties, and also with a view to
compensation to the owners of the vessel. This was the
first time that such a claim was made, and as soon as it was
made it was dealt with in a straightforward and prompt
manner by the authorities at Rio. The letter of the Bth
February was not presented to the Brazilian Government
until the 17th March, and on that day the British minister
wrote to the Brazilian Minister for Foreign Affairs a sking
for
corupeneation. The Brazilian Government replied
that they did
but were only bound datdomuisto aanllyavcalailiambleforar
ocaonms pfeonrspartoiosne,.
cuting those who had been proved to be criminals. It was
not till the month of May that the issue was ascertained
between the Brazilian and the English Governments. As
soon as it was ascertained it was at once met by the Bra-
zilian Government stating that they were anxious to fulfil
the obligations which international law imposed upon them.
It was worth while considering what was the ground of
compensation put forward by the English Government. No
claim for compensation could be brought :onward on the
ground that the local authorities had been remiss in setting
on foot judicial investigations, though that might be a ques-

tion between the two Governments. The only ground

on which a demand for compensation could be made

must be that the authorities of the Brazilian Government

were not there to protect the property, though he did not
suppose his hon, and learned friend would say that they
were responsible as an assurance company would be for
the property. The only ground her Majesty's Government
had taken was this : that the Brazilian Government had
been remiss in prosecuting the offenders after the act had
been committed ; but there was nothing whatever in these

papers to show that there had been the slightest neglect on
the part of the Brazilian Government, or if there was it was
only that there was some slight delay in one officer commu-
nicating to another. A great many of the facts stated by
the hon. and learned member (Mr. Collier) were mere
inferences, which he had drawn from reading the papers.
The honourable and learned member brought serious
charges against Senhor Suarez, and said the Bra-

zilian Government had refused to remove him from

his office or to prosecute him ; but the ➢larquis
d' Abrant es said they had not rut him upon his trial because,
atter having instituted inquiries, they were satisfied they
could make out no case against him. Turning from the local
authorities to the authorities at Rio de Janeiro, it appeared
tohim that their conduct had been dignified and honourable.

The Brazilian Government disputed the principle. It did
not matter to them whether they were to pay 3,200 pence

or 3,200 pounds ; but the question was whether they were to
be responsible for the violence of the winds and waves and
for the unlawful acts of their subjects whom they had dono
their best to prosecute. Had they done their best to prose-

cute them? What was the result? That one official had been
dismissed for negligence, and 11 persons had been prosecuted
and convicted. It was true that some of these parties had
escaped from the country, but in Brazil, as in some other
countries, persons might be tried in their absence, and sen-
tence pronounced against them, and the result was that
they did not dare to return to the country. He thought he
hal now shown that neither on the part of the local autho-
rities nor on the part of the central Government had there
been that failure of justice on which alone, according to in-
ternational law, any claim for compensation could be
grounded. A good deal had been said with regard to the
relative positions of the British and Brazilian Governments
and he must say thai, as an Englishman, it was a painful
thing, year after year, they should have cases brought be-
fore them in which the rights of British subjects were en-
forced with great rigour against weak governments, but
their rights were trampled on when the guilty government
was a strong power. What was going on with regard to
the Federal States of America ? Take the case of a British
vessel peacefully navigating the waters between Matamoras
and Havannah. She was pursued by an American cruiser,
and she took refuge in Spanish waters, where she was
driven on shore and burned. Had they heard of any re-
prisals in respect of that transaction? Take another case—
the Adele. She was carrying the British mails going be-
tween one Brittsh port and another. She was seized by an
American cruiser and carried to Key West, where the seal
of the mail bags was broken. Hal they hoard of any re-
prisals on account of that transaction ? Take another case
—the case of the Pearl. She was going from a neutral
port to a British port. She was seized and carried to an
American port because ten bales of pilot cloth were found
in her. Had they heard of any reprisals on account of that
transaction ? He should be told that they could not inter-
fere with the judicial authorities of the United States.
(Hear, hear.) Granted ; but when they paid deference to
the judicial authorities of one country, why did they not
pay the same deference to those of another ? They could
not draw a distinction between the action of the courts of
the Federal States of America and those of Brazil. If the
judicial proceedings which were recognised of the courts of
law of the country were carried on, this country had no
right to complain, though they might not be so seeedy as
in this country. We were, however, bound to respect the
jurisdiction of the courts of Brazil. A great deal had been
said about the utter want of power in the Brazilian Govern-
ment to punish the guilty parties. That was a most un-
satisfactory argument, because it must depend upon the cir-
cumstances of the case—the time when they occurred, and
many other things, which would make it impossible to lay
down any general rule on the point. Let the house take
the case of a French citizen who was murdered in Tipperary.
Why did justice fail there ? Because the Government could
not enforce the attendance of witnesses who had been pre-
sent at the moment when the crime was committed. It was
said that the Brazilian Government did not arrest the offen-
ders, but allowed them to escape. Suppose that instead of
an Irish landlord it hal been a French or a German sub-
ject who was murdered by the man Hayes who had escaped.
The French Government would scarcely have believed that
a force of constabulary more like armed soldiers than police
would have found any difficulty in arresting the offender.
But it was so. Well, then, when such a case happened
in this country or in Ireland, it was not fair, and
indeed it would not do, looking at what the Brazilian
Government had done and were doing to secure the due
administration of justice and the safety and rights of pro-
perty, to institute comparisons between that Government
and our own or other civilised countries of Europe which
had enjoyed the advantages of courts of law for a much
greater length of time. He would add that on the merits of
the case he could not disguise the feeling of regret, and
almost humiliation, with which be had read the papers on
the table, looking at the tone and temper in which the de-
spatches were written, Let the house take the last letter
in which the Brazilian Government had announced their
intention to submit to force, and to pay the money, though
under protest, but that it must not form a precedent for the
future, and the despatch of E ad Russell to the Brazilian
minister. What was the language which our foreign minis-
ter addressed to that gentleman? Why he told him that
the Government of his country was guilty of equivocations,
subterfuges, and delay. Now, if language like that was to
be used by the foreign minister of this country, he might
express a hope that this country should be on friendly
terms, but he (Mr. Fitzgerald) would despair of their ever
being real friends. (Hear, hear.) But that was not the
only case of which he might complain. For the noble earl
had written a despatch to the French Government, in which
the language amounted to this, that they had connived at
all the assassinations and all the horrors which had been
committed under the system of brigandage at Rome. (Hear,
hear.) Then in regard to the King of Denmark, the noble
earl wrote a despatch, in which he said that the conduct of
his Government had been inaccurate and delusive ; and in
regard to Russia, exactly the same thing was going on,
There were, in the despatches of the noble earl, expressions
which did not add to his usefulness in his high position, nor
to the dimity of the country which he represented. (Hear.)
Mr. LAYARD said, atter the very able speech of the hon.
and learned member for Plymouth (Mr. Collier), he should
be intruding upon the house if he went over the ground
which that hon. gentleman had so well trodden. He should
endeavour to confine himself to the diplomatic action of the
Government in the case of the Prince of Wales, and should
seek to show that that action had been neither hasty nor
unjust. Before proceeding to that part of the question he
must iecal the attention of the house to a few facts which
had either been forgotten or misstated by those who had
followed his hon. and iearned friend. It would be remem-
bered that the wreck of the Prince of Wales took place, not,
as the hon. gentleman who last spoke had said, about the Bth
or 9th, but between the 7th and Bth, upon the occasion of a
gale which raged upon the coast. It was not for some days
afterwards that any notice of the fact was brought to the
consul at Rio Grande do Sul, Mr. Vereker, and it came to
him then by mere chance. It was not, as had been stated,
reported to him, but it was first mentioned by Leubor
Soares, and it was afterwards mentioned in the house of
the delegate, and came to Mr. Vereker as a mere rumour.
One thing was undeniable, that it was the duty of the
authorities to give the earliest information of a wreck to
the consul of the country to which the owners of the ves-
sel belonged. No such thing was done in this case. It
might be asked, was there any proof that the vessel be-
longed to British owners? There was such proof, be-
cause a portion of the papers were actually found in the
possession of the delegate. No notice was given, as it
should have been ; but when information did reach Mr.
Vereker he applied to the municipal judge, and accom-
panied him to Albardao. That officer behaved well,
and went with the consul to the coast, the distance not
being so very great, the bodies being afterwards brought to
Rio Grande do Sul in two days. Mr. Vereker said the
municipal judge went to the house of Senhor Suarez, a men
of large fortune, upon whose land the wreck took place, and
upon whose land the bodies were found. It was believed in
the country, although he could not say with what amount
of accuracy, that Senhor Suarez owed his wealth in a great
measure to sharing in the plunder of wrecks on the coast.
(Oh, oh.) Hon. gentlemen might know Senhor Suarez bet-
( ter than he did, but he could only say what was told him by
those best acquainted with that country. In the house of
Senhor Suarez were found, not one Bible but two Bibles and
a Commentary—(laughter)—and besides there were certain
cases. Senhor Suarez, as the noble lord had suggested,
might have had a desire to collect English Bibles, but a de-
sire to collect cases of English goods was not so laudable.
Senhor Suarez had absented himself from the place, The
hon. gentleman opposite said he went to RioGrande do Sul,
but the fact was he did not go to Rio until the report was
brought, but to a place called Pelatos. Upon the following
day Mr. Vereker went to the coast and endeavoured to find
some traces of the crew and to take a list of the cargo saved.
He found the cargo scattered over the shore, boxes recently
broken open, and the very significant fact which had been
stated by his hon. and learned friend, and which must be
regarded as conclusive by those who viewed the facts in a
calm and impartial spirit—two of the vessels' boats were
found with their oars. Again, some miles to the northward
another boat was found, which was a further strong proof
of the crew having landed. Although 10 bodies only were
mentioned, there were 14 or 15 persons on board to be ac-
counted for. Mr.Vereker heard that bodies had been washed
ashore, and he understood from something he overheard
that there were bodies in the neighbourhood, and he asked
to see them. Why was he not allowed to see the bodies ? It
was never denied the bodies were there, and they were after-
wards brought to Rio Grande; but why did not the munici-
pal judge do his duty and insist on seeing them then? The
hon. gentleman said that in this country the coroner had a
right to examine bodies of persons found dead, but in Brazil
there was no such officer. Mr. Vereker, who was acquainted
with the laws of the country, said that it was the duty of
the municipal judge to make the examination, and also,
when he heard of the wreck, to visit the spot, take a cata-
logue of the cargo cast on shore, to secure what papers he

could find, and to furnish all the evidence he could pro-
cure concerning the wreck to the consul. Ihe officer failed
in that duty ; in fact, all the legal authorities did fail in
their duties ; and he contended that the Brazilian Govern-
ment, by dismissing two of those officers, although after-
wards explaining away the reasons for such dismissal, had
admitted them to be culpable. Until the 22d no inquest
was held, and then an inquiry was held at Albardao, and
two days later at Rio Grande, There was a remarkable
fact connected with that examination which to his mind

carried great weight ; the authorities who signed the report
as having been present were not present,Mr. Vereker sign-
ing the report under protest merely, as vouching for his
presence, and not for his admission of the truth of the report.
The next step would naturally have been to have given Mr.
Vereker a copy of the report, but although he applied for it
over and over again it was not until the year following-12

months after the event—that he succeeded in obtaining a

copy. No one who calmly read Admiral Warren's able
summary of the evidence furnished to him by Mr. Vereker
and the report of Capt. Saumarez on the spot could avoid
the moral conviction that the men had been murdered.

(Hear, hear.) If they had not been murdered, why were
not the other bodies produced ? Some vague excuses were
made about the drifting of the sand and the erasure of all
traces, but how was three of the bodies found a consider-
able distance from the shore ? He must say that Consul
Vereker had been dealt with most unfairly in this debate.
(Rear, hear.) Ile regretted to hear what fell from the
noble lord the member for Stamford in reference to that
honourable public servant, who had done everything in his
power to discharge his duty, and who, in consequence of
his great exertions and exposure, several months afterwards
suffered severe illness, which for a moment deranged his
brain. And after what had been stated as to life being
jeopardized it was not wonderful that he should have been
under considerable apprehensions. Then as to the action
of the Government—what did they do on receiving a re-
port of what had occurred ? He was much surprie al to
hear the hon. gentleman who spoke last say that those
who taunted the Brazilian Government with neg-
ligence had themselves been guilty of it. But what did the
British Government do ? They wrote to Mr. Beanie, our
Charge d'Affaires, and expressed their conviction that the
Brazilian Government would institute a proper inquiry.
Nobody had been arrested but some miserable Indian, who
NA as not even a Brazilian subject. The hon. gentleman said
compensation was not demanded till the Bth of February.
If it had been the Government would have justly exposed
themselves to the taunts of the hon. gentleman. They did
not demand compensation till they had given the Brazilian
Government an opportunity of doing justice. The hon gen-
tleman was not particularly happy in hit speech. He said
we did not understand how justice was administered in
Brazil any more than Brazilians knew how justice was ad-
ministered in this country. But had they done all they
could to arrest the guilty patties ? If the Government could
have been convinced that a fair investigation and trial had
taken place he did not believe they would have insisted in
the reparation they thought it their duty to do. Why did
not the Brezilian Government send a vessel of war to the
coast of Albardao, which the hon. gentleman (Mr. Bramley-
Moore) stated was so wild, and an exception to every other
part of Brazil? One of two things might be expected—
either the Brazilian Government would assert their autho-
rity, or if they were unable to protect foreigners whose ves-
sels had been wrecked on their coast the British Govern-
ment must pi otect their own subjects. What was the use
of our fleet and our consulsif not to take action in such a case
as this ? The action of her Majesty's Government had
been strictly within diplomatic usage. The Brazilian
Government stated that eleven persons had been con-
demned and punished, but it turned out that such was
not the case. We therefore had a right to demand
compensation for the loss sustained. His honourable
friend had endeavoured to prove that we demanded
compensation for murder. Now, we might have been
morally convinced that murder did not take place, but we
carefully avoided mixing up that with the demand for com-
pensation. The hon. gentleman had adverted to M. Mo.
reira's notes. M. Mureira assumed somewhat offensively
that the British Government had demanded compensation
fur the vessel or freight; compensation was demanded for
the plunder of the cargo, and for the negligence shown by
the Brazilian authorities in their inquiries to ascertain the
delinquency of the supposed malefactors. Even after the
weeck the persons on the coast spoke of the body of the c tp-
tain, and how could they have identified the body without
some distinguishing part of his dress ? It was said we had
left no opening for arbitration, but if hon. gentlemen would
turn to page 99 of the printed papers they would find from
Earl Russell's despatch to Mr. Christie that the principle
of arbitration was admitted; and again, on the 4th Nov., it
was stated that her Majesty's Government were very re-
luctant to proceed to extremes, except as a last resource, and
to the offer of arbitration no condition was then attached.
Mr. Christie, in his despatch, spoke of arbitration as an
amicable solution of the question. It was not for the party
who demanded redress, but for the party of whom it was
asked to offer arbitration; and Mr, Christie was authorised
to accept the offer. Now, as to the question of reprisals, he
would leave it to be dealt_ with by those who were more
competent than he was to deal with legal points ; but he
might call the attention of the hon. member for Horsham
to the action of his own Government on a question of re-
prisals. There was a case in which his hon. friend had
justly claimed some credit—the case of the Cagliari, which
was seized by the Neapolitan Government, and Lord
Malmesbury gave that Government ten days' notice within
which he required they should give up the British engineers,
with a threat that if the Neapolitan Government still per-
sisted in refusing reparation reprisals should follow. If
hon. members would refer to Hansard they would find
that Lord George Bentinck in 1847 brought forward a
motion in which he pressed on the noble lord now at the
head of the Government that, unless the claims of the
Spanish bondholders were paid, the British Government
should have recourse to reprisals; and his noble friend on
that occasion made an admirable speech, in which he showed
that the doctrine of reprisals was not applicable to the cir-
cumstances. (Hear, hear.) It was said the action taken by
the present Government was an unheard-of proceeding; he
hoped to show that there were good precedents for what
they had done. The noble lord the member for Stamford
asked somewhat querulously why nothing was said about
the case of the officers of the Forte. The hon, member for
Lincolnshire, who brought forward this motion with taste
and good feeling, which he should have been glad if the
noble lord the member for Stamford had imitated, omitted
all reference to this question because it had been submitted
to the arbitration of the King of the Belgians. Her Ma
jesty's Government had entire reliance on the wisdom and
justice of that monarch, and therefore it would ill become
him to say a word upon a question which was still under
consideration. But anything more unfair than the state-
ment made by the noble lord he had never heard. The
noble lord of course might put the honour and veracity of
English officers as high as he thought proper; but for him
only to state a fragment of their case—(hear, hear)—and
to conceal the whole of that part of the narrative on which
the British Government had taken action, was unfair alike
to those officers, to the Government, and to the house.
(Cheers.) It was not for their arrest at the guardhouse
that reparation had been demanded. The Government did
not assume that English gentlemen necessarily got drunk
gentlemen assured
nEknganlidshdid not assault the
afterthem dinner;that
th e
ya and
dwnhoetn get threedr
guard, they took their evidence (cheers) in preference to the
swearing of a hotel-keeper and a common soldier. (Cheers.)
They were confined to prison, marched manacled through
the town, and refused a conveyance, and it was for
these indignities and not for the arrest, which might have
been a mistake, that the British Government demanded
reparation. (Hear, hear.) The policy of het Majesty's
Government had been very much condemned by gentlemen
on the other side, but he had not heard from them any
alternative. Where was the evidence of the facts so much
condemned ? Eighteen months had been given to the Go-
vernment of Brazil. Suppose her Majesty's Government
had not adopted the course which was taken 5 ouppooe they
had not answered those energetic letters of Mr. Stephens,
who, like a thor ugh Briton, believed it was the duty of
the Government to look after his property—what would
that gentleman have done ? He would certainly have gone
to his hon. friend opposite—(cheers)—and his hon. friend
—assuming that tone of solemn remonstrance which he
could put on so well when occasion required—would as
certainly have charged the Government with apathy, have
dwelt upon the facts of British subjects murdered and
British property plundered, and hold that the Government
which suffered such wrongs deserved the reprobation of the
house and the country. (Cheers.) It had been said that
there was much British property in Brazil, in banks, mines,
railways, and public works. But his experience of foreign
affairs had satisfied him that it was exceedingly easy to get
British capital into Brazil, but it was exceedingly difficult
to get it out again. His hon. friend's acquaintance with the
Foreign-office would doubtless enable him to corroborate
the statement that the most troublesome business of that
department arose from transactions relating to the Southern
States of America.
Mr. S. FITZGER ALD—Not Brazil,
Mr. LAYARD said hon. gentlemen were always coming
to the Foreign-office and asking how the claims of their
clients were progressing, and all the reply the department
were able to give was, " We have written again," " We
have given instructions ;" and that sort of thing went on
year after year. And what description of claims were those
so constantly urged ? Denial of justice, outrages on the
person, and infraction of treaties. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. S. FITZGERALD—Not in Brazil.
Mr. LAYAR was sorry to differ from his hon. friend,
but he would point out two or three matters which led him
to form the opinion he had expressed. There had been
claimed from Brazil the sum of £350,000. His hon. friend
just now said that the present Government had broken up
the commission that was to inquire into those claims; but
his hon. friend must have certainly known the true history
of that transaction. The Brazilian Government brought
forward claims
which had been settled by courts of law,
whose decisions they themselves had recognised, and they
insisted upon their knowing that the English Government
would never consent to their being reopened, and,
as they
would not hear of anything else till these claims were ad-
mitted, the British Government were compelled to break up
the commission. The English Government would have
been only too glad to have settled the vast amount of claims,
many of which had been hanging over for the last 40
years. What happened only four or five years ago, and

still formed the subject of correspondence between the two
Governments ? Without rhyme or reason a triple tax was
_ _ _ _ .

imposed on all British commerce in Bahia—(hear, hear)—
that enactment was still in existence, and though it had

not been acted on recently, calls were constantly being made
upon the Brazilian Government to ropes, this unjust and
iniquitous law, In the papers reference was made by Mr.
Christie to intimidation and to the purchase of justice. That
allusion referred to a letter which had fallen into Mr Chris-
tie's hands from an influential officer, between whom and
Mr. Reed a suit was pending, calling on the judge who was
to decide in the suit to decide against Mr. Reed. It was said
that Brazil had abolished the slave trade. He did not want
to go into a history of that question, but he knew that if
credit was to 'no taken for that measure it was due, not to the
Brazilian Government, but to the noble lord now at the head
of the Government _(hear, hear)—who had put down the
slave trade there as he had put it down elsewhere. (Cheers.)
What were the actual facts at this moment ? The Brazilian
Government had entered into distinct agreements that the
negroes now in that country shall be liberated at the end of
a certain period of apprenticeship. That period had elapsed
some years since, and, notwithstanding the remonstrances
1 of the British Government, those negroes were still used as
slaves ; it was impossible to obtain a list of them, or to trace
what had become of them. These were some of the causes
of complaint existing against Brazil. Were the British
Government to stand with their arms folded ? Were they
to rest satisfied with the plausible and, he must add, disin-
genuous notes of the Brazilian Minister? Would those who
had been robbed, and the relatives of those who had been
murdered, rest satisfied with such an explanation ? He ven-
tured to say no Government could have acted otherwise than
her Majesty's Government had done. The noble lord oppo-
site had quoted a paragraph from a well known legal autho-
r, ty, Dr. Phillimore, who, it was well known, was the legal
adviser of the Government, and as the Government acted
on his opinion, it was likely to be in favour of reprisals in this
case. Allusion had been made to the strong and the weak.
Nothing could be more reprehensible than for a strong Go-
vernment unnecessarily to use its strength against a weak
State, and according to the noble lord we had the reputation
all over the world of bullying small Governments. (Hear,
hear.) But was it not astounding to hear from his noble
friend opposite that there was not a great powe- in Europe
which we had not insulted and bullied within the last 18
months. We had written threateningly to France, insult-
ingly to Cenmark, to Tlnagia likowiso, in fact, according to
the hon. gentleman, there was not a great State which we
had not insulted and bullied in turn.
Mr. S. FITZGERALD—InsuIted.

Mr. LAYARD—WeII, to which we had not used strong
language. The noble lord opposite said we would not have
acted similarly towards the United States. But he forgot
what had taken place not long ago. (Cheers.) He did not
wish to travel over the face of the globe, like hon. gentle-
men opposite, but any reproach with regard to the attitude
of this country towards the United States certainly did not
fall justly on the present Government. It was a misfortune
in some cases to be a weak State, but a small State, relying
on its weakness, occasionally acted in a manner that a stronger
State would not adopt. There were other cases, and per-
haps the present was one of them, where a morbid sensitive-
ness on the score of dignity existed, forgetting that, after
all, true dignity lay in doing what was right and just.
(Hear.) If the Brazilian Minister, instead of writing all
the notes which he had done and carping at all the little
mistakes and errors that might have crept into Mr. Chris-
tie's statements, had boldly done what he possibly could
towards effecting justice, he fully believed the Government
would have accepted his endeavours. (Hear.) It had been
asked what would have been the conduct of the British Go •
vernment if a similar occurrence had taken place inEngland.
In 1850 an Austrian vessel was wrecked on the coast of
Galway, and plundered by the inhabitants of an island which
ho believed enjoyed rather a bad reputation for such acts.
Every measure was taken by the Government to punish
these persons. They were tried, interpreters were brought
from a distance, and everything was done to secure that
justice should be done, The grand jury threw out the bill,
trom some legal flew. His noble friond now at the head of
the Government thereupon immediatelysent to the Austrian
ambassador a cheque for £540. (Hear.) In that case there
had been a trial, and the Government might fairly have
sheltered themselves behind what they had done. But
suppose that in the case of this Austrian vessel the stipen-
diary magistrate had plundered the wreck, that the coro-
ner with an armed escort had resisted all attempt at inquiry,
what would then have been the responsibility of the
British Government? He declared that if these facts were
proved the responsibility of the Brazilian Government was
fully established. The hon. member had cited the cases
of the Blanche, the Pearl, and vessels that had
attempted to run the blockade, and had asked why
the Government had not interfered in those cases. Because
there were legal prize courts in the United States before which
these cases could be taken, and her Majesty's Government
accepted their decisions when they were just, as they gene-
rally were. Did the motion mean anything or nothing ? He
should be sorry to see it carried, and believed that if the
motion were pressed to a division it would be successfully
opposed. If, on the contrary, the mail, of which the hon.,
gentleman spoke, should carry out to South America the
decision of that house in favour of the motion, a shout of
triumph would be heard, every debtor would hail with joy
the establishment of the principle of non-payment of debts,
and every creditor would sit in sackcloth and ashes. Such
a decision would exercise the most fatal influence abroad
on British interests and lives. Her Majesty's Govern-
ment regretted with the hon, gentleman that a misunder-
standing had occurred between the two countries, and they
were equally desirous with him that friendly relations
should prevail between Great Britain and a Power which
had peculiar claims upon our respect from its great wealth,
the magnitude of its resources, and the intelligence of its
inhabitants. But her Majesty's Government had a great,
solemn, and peremptory duty to perform,—viz,, to protect
the property and lives of her Majesty's subjects. He be-
lieved that the country would support the Government in
performing that duty. It was because he thought that Bri-
tish lives and British property would be imperilled through-
out the world if this motion were carried that he now called
upon the house to reject (Cheers.)
Mr. COBDEN—I must say I never remember a debate in
which the speakers have so far wandered from the question
before the house, I will say very little at this late hour, but
what I say shall be to the purpose. Sir, I listened to the
speech of the hon. and learned gentleman (Mr. Collier) who
led off in this debate in defence of the Government. He
stood behind me, and I could not see him, but I could have
fancied that he had his cloak and wig on. (Laughter.) In
fact, on one or two occasions he thought so too, and ad-
dressed us as " Gentlemen of the jury." (Laughter.)
I listened to him, on the other hand, with something of the
feeling with which a practised juryman regards the speech
of a counsel who opens a cases. He knows he is speaking
from a brief, that he is pledged to nothing, and that he does
but follow his instructions. (Hear, hear.) I am in this
difficulty with regard to this case, that I do not believe in
the competency of the witness, for we have in this case only
one witness to the main point at issue. Mr. Christie, our
representative in Brazil, tells us, in page 71, that " all that
is known as to the plunder and all the circumstances sug-
gesting suspicion of murder are set forth in Mr. Vereker's
despatches." Now, I do not accept Mr. Consul Vereker as
a sufficient witness in this case. I do not know whether
hon. members have lead these despatches from the begin•
niog, as I have done, but from Mr. Vereker's first letter of
June, 1861, to the last, before I ever heard of what has
since trantpired, I was struck with the morbid suspi-
ciousness which pervades Mr. Vereker's letters. For
instance, in announcing the first receipt of the intelligence
of the disaster, his despatch to the Board of Trade is full of
suspicion and excitement. He seems to have viewed the
wreck as a sort of conspiracy against him. He takes ex-
ception to the way in which the rumour reaches him, as if
a wreck happened periodically in his district, and as if it
were the duty of the police delegate to come to Rio Grande
ones a month or once a quarter with news of this kind. Ho
also complains that the police delegate does not give him all
the information about the wreck that might be expected
from him. Mr. Vereker then tries tq ascertain if the vessel
wrecked is a British vessel. He finds papers, and supposes
that somebody wanted to keep them freen him. He gets
evidence that it is a British vessel, and then he applies to the
municipal judge of the place to accompany him to the scene.
He is obliged to confess the promptitude and frankness with
which the municipal judge agreed to accompany him with
an escort of soldiers and armed Customhouse officers. They
arrive at night on the second day at the house of the magis-
trate Soares, the very person who had reported the wreck to
him at Rio Grande. He arrives in the evening with his
armed escort, and finds in the house two young ladies, the
daughters of this magistrate. The party are received with
some reluctance, the magistrate being from home. (Hear.)
This disinclination to receive them is then put down a! a
confirmation of the suspicion that Suarez has had something
to do with the robbery. Next morning M: Vereker goes
to the scene of the wreck and finds four bodies. Ho wants
to have them removed. He sees two officers talking, and
has his suspicions about that. Then he finds that the escort
are not strong enough to compel the neighbourhood to agree
to the inquiry he desires to make. He then searches the
houses for plunder from the wreck, and when he finds none
he suspects that the stolen property may be probably found
in the adjoining thickets. lie returns to Rio and demands
that an inquest shall be held on the four bodies. They are
in a state of sad decomposition, but they are brought in by
an armed escort. An inquest is held—the medical men at-
tend, and they pronounce that these are the corpses of un-
fortunate persons who were suffocated by drowning. This
finding only confirms Mr. Consul Vereker's suspiciousness.
And this condition of Mr. Vereker's mind is all important
in this case. It appears in all his correspondence. In a de •
spatch dated Dec. 11 Mr. Vereker has occasion to speak of
the sub-delegate of Tahim, who, as was his duty, had to
collect soma remnants of the wreck and restore them to the
owners, and he thus speaks of that officer :
"The latter had to col:ect such goods es he could in benefit
of the Customs, and yet most of the 'goods which ho de-
livered to the had been taken out of their cases, and there is
no real doubt but that those cases were broken by his order,
and the goods of least value given up. In making this
statement, according to my conviction, I feel it right to say
I cannot legally prove it."
(Hear, hear.) Yes; but that is the tone throughout the
whole of this correspondence. In the account given of
the inquest there seems to be some little misunderstanding
respecting the Portuguese word which has been translated

" strangled," when they say it means " suffocated," Mr.
Vereker, in writing to Earl Russell, March 20, says :
" in the report of the examination of the bodies on the
coast, among other allegations not creditable to the local
residents, it is stated by those appointed to examine the
body of one of the unfortunate persons from the wreck that
herwas strangled. Such statements may account for the un-
willingness of the authorities to give the required infertile..
tion and possibly for the limited nature of the inquiry in-
stituted, as there SOMIS to exist a fear that under a more
searching investigation disclosure might be made which
would throw discredit on the country."
And he adds—

"If this is so (I put the suggestion forward only hypo-
thetically), it shows on the part of the local authorities either
a culpable sympathy with evildoers or a want of moral cou-
rage which is highly reprehensible."
If you follow this correspondence all through, you will find
the same tone pervading it. Again, when speaking of the
inquiry which the President of the Province is to make into
the circumstances of the wreck, he says, in a despatch dated
April 24 ;

" Its necessity is alleged by his Excellency the President
to arise from my having reported to her Majesty's Govern
nt that the crew of the bark had been assassinated, and
the delegate in his despatch invites me to be present, as it
were to sustain my suspicions : thus the inquiry comes to
bear the character of an attempt to disprove those alleged
statements, which, as your lordship is aware, were never
uttered, for though I have endeavoured most faithfully to
report the facts, I have with equal caution avoided hitherto
drawing any conclusion. Besides, the inhabitants of the
Albasdao have now been long aware of the projected in-
quiry, and have had at least ten days to conceal the last
open proofs of their guilt."
But, immediately after, he adds—
"As my name has been prominently brought forward in
connection with this case by the Brazilian press and other-
wise, I feel it suitable at this time, and after mature consi-
deration of the various bearings of the case, to declare my
opinion that the deaths of some of those who composed the
crew of the Prince of Wales cannot, in face of the facts and
circumstances and position of the bodies, be accounted for
in any reasonable manner, excepting on the supposition that
they were the result of assassination."
So that, in the very same despatch he states in one place
that he refrained from drawing any conclusion, and in
another that there was no reasonable way of accounting for
all the circumstances but upon the supposition of assassina-
tion. (Hear.) Now, I take his unconsciousness of the infir-
mity under which he was labouring to be a strong proof
that the infirmity was of a very grave description, and this
brings me to a matter which should be alluded to with great
delicacy ; but the facts and the causes remain. lam not
going to speak of the causes—they are not such as have been
volunteered by my hon. friend (Mr. Layard) ; but at all
events we find that in the summer of last year Mr. Vereker
was seized withagrave mental alienation, and the symptoms
of the malady were simply an exaggeration of that morbid
tone which has pervaded the whole of his correspondence.
(Hear.) He was seized with delirious impressions that ho
was himself going to be assassinated. He goes to Rio Ja-
neiro, makes an appeal to Mr. Christie, his superior, and
the latter is obliged to say to the Marquis of Abrantes that
the whole is a mental delusion. (Hear.) I say, therefore,
that in any court of justice Mr. Consul Vereker would be
considered incompetent as the sole witness to decide this
case. (Hear.) For bear in mind that Mr;Vereker's evidence
is the only evidence to show that the inferior officials had
neglected their duty or been in any way compromised in
this affair. For I wish to draw attention particularly to this
fact, we have the best testimony as to the conduct of the
higher officials. (Hear.) Now, these are the persons
from whom we should derive our impressions. (Hear.)
hear.) Take, for instance, the highest personage in the
State. I have it from the best authorities—persons who
have been long resident in the country—that the present
Emperor is a man of the highest order of attainments, one
in fact who, if a potentate of Europe, would take a foremost
rank among the Monarchs of the Old World. (Hear, hear.)
You find that Mr. Christie speaks highly of the character of
the principal judge, and also of the President of the pro-
vince of Rio Grande, and even Mr. Vereker is obliged to
admit that from the authorities at Rio Grande he received
nothing but the most prompt and generous attention.
(Hear, hear.) lam not going through all that jumble of
details which is contained in this book, as to whether more
or less property was stolen. lam perfectly satisfied that

some of the wreck snared the fate it would share in any

country, and as the district borders upon a neighbouring
State, the guilty persons made their escape, and could
not be brought to justice. I can even believe it pos-

sible that some of these unhappy men were mur••

dered when they came ashore; but all that would
not constitute a ground of claim against the Brazilian Go-
vernment unless some complicity on their part could be
shown. (Hear, hear.) It would be a tremendous evil in the
international relations of this world if a foreign State, having
one of its citizens living abroad who had suffered wrong,
should claim to be judge as to whether that citizen had been
treated properly or not, should assume to itself the functions
of judge and tury, and insist on having justice done accord •
ing to its own tests. (Hear.) There is one simple but invari-
able rule in matters of this kind, that in any foreign country,
except China or Turkey, to which last countries you claim
to carry your own laws, you must be content that your
countrymen should receive the same treatment which the
citizens of that country receive. (Hear, hear.) You cannot
claim more, and you have a right to receive that. Can any-
body doubt that the Brazilian Government behaved with
the same good faith in their desire to bring the guilty to
justice as if ti-e vessel belonged to one of their own citizens ?
What charge, then, does Mr. Vereker, as a matter of fact,
bring against that judge Soares ? I suppose Soares is a gen-
tleman, as he was appointed a magistrate. (Laughter.) I
was sorr3 , therefore, to hear my hon. and learned friend
(Mr. Collier) speak of him as a brigand with his retainers.
(Hear, hear.) Now, what is proved against him ? That
two Bibles were found in his house. (Laughter.) Does
anybody suppose that in a Portuguese Catholic community
any value was attached to an English edition of the Pro-
testant Bible, or that these two volumes of the sacred Scrip •
tures were taken as plunder ? Let us suppose that a Brazil-
ian vessel was cast ashore on the coast of Cornwall—a dis-
trict rather famous in connexion with shipwrecks—and that
a cross or a rosary of no intrinsic value was found in the
house of a magistrate near that place ; would it be taken as
a proof of wreck and robbery ? Well, then, must we sup-
rose that the robbery which took place must have been
with the connivance of the highest authorities in Brazil ?
But there is one point which I wish ,to bring out, which
will have some weight with the noble lord at the head of
the Government. That noble lord is celebrated for his
anxiety to protect the interests of Englishmen living
abroad. Well, there is a body of English merchants living
at Brazil, men of high respectability; and what would be
the testimony of those men with respect to the conduct of
the Brazilian Government? I will venture to say that the
community of Englishmen in Brazil are treated with as
much consideration and respect and as much fostering pa-
tronage and protection as it is possible for any country to
show to foreigners residing wi thin its boundary ; and what
is the opinion of that community of British merchants in
Brazil on this very transaction ? I say, on the authority
of men connected with the Brazilian trade—and I beg the
noble lord at the head of the Government to bear this in
mind—that the merchants at Rio and in Brazil generally
are unanimous in disapproving the course taken by the
English Government. (Hear, hear.) What I have just
stated has been cheered by the hon. gentleman who brought
forward the present motion, himself largely connected with
the trade of that country. I go further, and say that the
feeling of the British merchants there on this question
arises mainly from the fact that they do not believe the
evidence of Consul Vereker to be sufficient to prove that
the Brazilian Government have sought to do any injury or
to evade their responsibility to English merchants, and
they bear testimony to the desire of the Brazilian Govern-
ment to cultivate the most friendly relations with England
and the English residents in Brazil. (Hear, hear.)
What is to become of the maritime States of a weaker
order if the principle is established that where a
shipwreck occurs the bountry where it happens shall
be held responsible ? As the Brazilian authorities said
in one of their despatches, the coast where this ship-
wreck occurred would become a favourite resort for a cer-
tain class of mariners if the country is to be made respon-
sible for all shipwrecks there. We have lately had an ex-
posure showing that a new kind of industry has been
established in the world. It is a sinister kind of industry,
for making a profit by wrecking ships ; and if the
Brazilian Government are obliged to submit to the
demand made on this occasion, then I say that the
coast of Rio Grande will be a favourite resort of
mariners of that odious description. Before I sit down
I will say one word as to, perhaps, the only practical benefit
to be derived from this unfortunate business. I want to
draw public attention to the evils which arose from the
secret diplomacy in this matter. Here is a correspondence
carried on for 18 months upon a purely commercial question
of the very smallest magnitude. Vast interests in Brazil
have been jeopardised, and yet we have been kept in com
plate ignorance of all these transactions. (Hear, hear.) We
have lately had a movement among a number of Cham -
tiers of Commerce, calling on the Foreign-office to put
itself in greater communication with them in reference
to commercial arrangements with other countries ; and I
think that they might take a hint from what has occurred
on this simple matter. I have read these despatches
with a greater distaste for diplomacy than I ever felt be •
fore. They exhibit such an amount of verbal criticism
and special pleading, and the correspondence is altogether
of such an order that I was really ashamed when I perused
it. I wish to make a suggestion with regard to all such
correspondence as this, having simply no other than a com-
mercial interest. I do not speak of diplomacy in Europe,
having reference to State affairs, the balance of power, and
old treaties, with respect to which, in deference to third
parties, it is thought proper to keep the diplomacy secret ;
but 1 am referring to correspondence simply on a commer-
cial question; and I think that it would be a very
' prudent course for that correspondence to be published be-
fore the proceedings are brought to a close. (Hear, hear.)
I venture to say that if this correspondence had been pub-
lished from the beginning, if it had been laid on the table
of the house at the commencement of the last session, and we
had known what was going on in Brazil, the body of Eng-
lish merchants there, whose opinion would have been far
more effectual to preserve peace than your dip!omacy,would,
if you had let in the wholesome light of paublwichitiycjihhaaysebpeeunt
an end to that empoisoned style of diplomacy
going on for so many months, and which has batched all a
this mischief. (Hear.) What has been the result of the
course of proceeding adopted ? Why, without even 24 hours
L A notice, the British merchants in Brazil found their country

on the verge of a war with the Emperor of Brazil. The act
of the admiral in making reWisals on Brazilian vessels was
taken in secret, and the consequence was such a perfect
panic ihat great alarm was felt for the lives and property of
English subjects in Rio. Your Minister barricaded himself
in his house for protection. It should be mentioned, for the
credit of the Brazilian Government, that the Minister of
Commerce went down to the Exchange and assured the
English merchants there that they should have the whole
power of the State exertedfor theirprotection ; and the Em-
peror went into the streets and harangued the populace with
the object of calming their agitation. But, suppose the Em-
peror had taken another course—and I have heard from some
shrewd men that he might probably have consulted his in-
terest better if he had, for I am told that you have imperil-
led by your proceedings the existence of the only constitu-
tional monarchy in America and given ascendency to the Re-
publican party. Bat suppose the Emperor had taken a dif-
ferent course when you seized his ships, and made reprisals
tending to war, See in what a predicament you place the vast
interests of Englishmen in Brazil. The hon. gentleman who
brought forward the present motion states that 20 million of
British property were at stake. In one hour the lives of Bri-
tish citizens might have been placed in danger and their pro-
perty rendered liable to confiscation because of a state of
war. This is the sort of thing which it behoves the com-
merce of the country to take steps to avert in future. (Hear.)
Where we are connected with another nation only for the
purpose of commerce, let the me, chants and manufacturers
of this country demand publici,y in cases like this, so that
public opinion might be brought to bear on them, and then
we shall never have such a discreditable production as is
the blue book on this matter. (Hear.) I will refer to that
other topic dealt with by the nob:e lord the member for
Stamford. I feel humiliated to see an infirm Sovereign like
the King of the Belgians called upon with all his abilities
to condescend to arbitrate on a question such as that of the
three young officers who went from a ship of war to enjoy
themselves is the country—at the Star and Garter at Rio
—and who becoming merry committed the not very serious
offence of mocking a sentry, who was perhaps half asleep,
and contrived to get themselves put into the guard-house.
We should think that a venial offence here ; but what in-
vested it with real importance is the absurb manner in which
the Foreign-office took up the subject. I say that diplomacy
must be in its dotage, when it can find no better occupation
than the case of these officers. (Hear, hear.) Ido not
know whether the hon. gentleman the proposer of the pre-
sent motion will divide the house, or whether he will be
content with having elicited opinion on the subject. Should
he divide, I shall certainly vote with him ; but I would not
advise him to seek to be in a minority. Let him rather be
satisfied with the majority of opinion in debate; but, be-
sides my hon, and learned friend, who holds a sort of brief,
and is a kind of legal adviser to the Government in such a
matter, I think that, outside the ranks of the Govern-
ment, r, ot many other men will support them on this
occasion. (Hear, hear.)
The SOLICITOR•GENERAL regretted that the hon.
gentleman who had just sat down had addressed himself to
an object so unworthy his abilities as endeavouring to throw
discredit upon an honourable servant of this country, who
from most laudable motives, and in the discharge of a most
imperative duty, had endeavoured to see justice done in a
case of crying wrong. The hon. member had failed to dis-
, credit the testimony of that gentleman. But her Majesty's
Government did not rest upon his testimony, but upon the
testimony of the Brazilian authorities themselves. The Lion.
and learned gentleman proceeded to quote from the de-

spatches of the Brazilian local authorities, to show that the
plunder of the wreck had taken place by the inhabitants of
the coast of Albardao, and that the wealthiest persons there
had been engaged in it. The hononrable and learned
gentleman defended the proceedings of the British officers
at considerable length, and maintained that one ci the prin-
cipal grounds of attack (namely, that Mr. Consul Vereker
could have attended all the investigations) was simply un-
true. He could not help remarking that other matters had
been quoted and referred to besides those treated of by the
Brazilian despatches, and it was very plain that, though the

voice was like the voice of Jacob, the hand was that of some'
body else. He was quite ready to admit that they ought not
to ask for compensation for a murder unless it could be
distinctly proved, but it was quite clear that the means
of proving the outrage had been kept from them. (Hear.)
He thought the hon. member for Stamford and the hon.
member for Rochdale might have better sustained the
character of the house than by asking the house to assume
that all the letters that had been read had been the result of
temporary insanity. Were we to hold that everything
that had been written and said was an invention, a delusion,
and a falsehood, merely because it tended to criminate the
Brazilian Government ? (Hear, hear.) He would say that
the Brazilian Government had been very properly assumed
to have criminated itself, and he thought that the hon
member forßochdale would hardly dispute what Mr.Vereker
hed stated in his despatch, as to finding the two cases at
the residence of Suarez quite dry, and in perfect order. The
hon. and learned gentleman contended that the plunder
and other outrages complained of had been committed by
the retainers and dependents of Senhor Suarez; that
Suarez himself had neglected to take any measures for ac•
quainting the British consul of what had taken place ; and
that there was a complete denial of justice. Under these
circumstances he believed that the house would be opinion,
notwithstanding what hied been urged by hon. members
opposite, that her Majesty's Government had acted bona
fide and that it was their duty to teach foreign Govern'
ments, whether strong or weal, that British subjects
should not be wronged with impunity. (Cheers.)
The motion was then withdrawn, amid loud Ministerial
cheers.

SUPPLY.
Mr. MASSEY brought up the report on supply, which
was agteed to.

CUSTOMS ACTS (TOBACCO DUTIES).
The house then went into committee upon the Custonici
A cts (Tobacco Duties), when
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved
resolution, " That the duty of Customs ,n unmanufacturecl
tob icco imported into Great Britain and Ireland, Which
shall contain less than 101 b. per cwt. of moisture, shall be
3s. 6d. per 1b.," which was agreed to.
On the order for the second reading of the Education of
Factory Children Bill,
Mr. FERRAND said he viewed this bill with great
alarm, as it would extend the labour of children to 10
hours a day. He asked Mr. Baxter, who had charge of di°
bill, to postpone the second reading till after Easter.
„,
Mr. BAXTE explained the real object of the bill, an
ultimately postponed the second reading.
After some further business, the house adjourned at 20
minutes past 12 o'clock till Monday.