The Sun.
London, England, 1863-06-30 00:00:00

THE DIPLOMATIC SERVICE.

Mr. B. COCHRANE then rose to call attention to the
recommendations of the Diplomatic Service Committee,
and to move that the resolutions of that committee be
carried out. Ho thought it very inconvenient that
gentlemen should continue to be sent out to posts abroad
that they were unable to fill with credit. He said it was
impossible for an ambassador to live in the capitals of

Europe on the salaries allowed by the Government, and it
was strange that whilst the duties had increased the expen-
diture had decreased from £3i0,000 in 1833 to £lBO,OOO in
the present year. The consuls were also inadequately paid,
so much so that many could not live in a becoming manner
upon the salaries allowed to them. He asked her Majesty's
Gouernment to deal more liberally with our diplomatic and
consular services.

Mr. LAYAR D said this was the only case where the Go-
vernment were reproached for their economy, and the speech
of the hon. member was an answer to that delivered a short
time since by the hon. member for Sussex, who complained

that too much money was spent on our diplomatic services.
He concurred with the hon. member for Honiton that our
ambassadors and consuls were underpaid. The committee re-
ferred to reported seven recommendations, and the Govern-
ment had adopted six of them. It was a hard case to call
upon the attaches to devote twelve or fifteen years to the
service before they were entitled to remuneration, and it
had been altered to four years' probationary service, at the
expiration of which they were entitled to receive £l5O per
annum, in accordance with one of the recommendations of
the committee. The seventh reeommendation had not been
carried out, because it was a matter that rested with the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, and not with the Foreign-
office. The sum of £lBO,OOO did not include China and
another extraordinary mission which had been lately estab-
lished. He should be glad to increase the salaries, if he
oould, ing that many of these public servants had to
spend large sums out of their private fortunes to meet their
expenses ; and, having done that, he thought it was unfair
to begrudge them what they were paid. The pay of the
consuls had been increased by the Foreign-office; whilst,
at the same time, the diplomatic expenses had been de-

creased.
Mr. DISRAELI thought the limited sum allowed for the
service might be made more beneficial by a more judicious
distribution of the money. He thought the fund might be
better applied. For instance, £1,500 had been paid to Mr.
Elliott for a special mission to Greece ; but why was a spe-
cial mission necessary, when there was a permanent com-
petent Minister in Greece ? Why should the country be
paying at the same time for two officers when one might

transact the business ? The additional money so spent
might be saved and distributed amongst our diplomatic
agents, though he admitted the sums for special missions did
not come out of the general diplomatic fund, but were voted
separately by the house.
Sir G. GREY said special missicns were very rare, and
were only resorted to in extraordinary cases, such as the
Ashburton mission to America and the China mission.
Mr. S. FITZGERALD said Mr. Elliott had been sent
on two special missions—one to Greece and the other to
Naples, where there was no extraordinary or special com-
missioner to warrant it. A special envoy, when sent to a
foreign country, cast a reflection on the abilities of the resi-
dent official, and should not be done except in cases of great
emergency.

DODSON contended that, taking all the charges
scatter ed over the estimates for diplomacy, they amounted
in 1862 to £336,000. The committee referred to consisted
of fifteen members, ten or eleven of whom were officials
or ex-officials ; and the question they put to the witnesses
was, " would you like an increase of salary?" and they
naturally enough answered in the affirmative. (Hear,
hear, and laughter,) The consuls were useful and efficient
servants, and he should not like to see them underpaid ;
but the fact was we had many useless consulates abroad
which might be dispensed with, and the money saved and
applied to the useful ones. He hoped to see others soon
follow the fate of Moscow and Milan, and disappear from
the list.

Sir M. FARQUHAR defended the report of the com-
mittee. A fairer committee could not have been formed,
and great pains were taken by them to get reliable infor-
mation. Many of the witnesses showed that the necessaries
of life had increased in foreign countries from 50 to 100 per
cent., whilst their salaries had been stationary.
Mr. A. SMITH said the committee consisted of officials,
ex-officials, and expectant officials, and the witnesses exa-
mined were of the same kidney. The French ambassadors
had not permanent residences in the capitals of Europe as
we have in France, entailing a large expense in repairs; but
they hired residences on the best terms. With the excep-
tion of one or two instances, our diplomatic agents were
paid higher than any other country. The construction of
railways and telegraphs ought to have a tendency to reduce
rather than increase expense. He thought £6OO, the charge
for Rome, might be dispensed with. It would be better if
we had no diplomatic relations with that country.
On the vote for defraying the special mission to Greece,
Mr. AYRTON asked for some explanation relative to the
Greek Loan guaranteed some years ago by England,France,
and Russia; and the surrender of £4,000 to the newly-
elected King of Greece. He wished to know whether the
Government intended to ask the sanction of Parliament to
the surrender of that sum?
Mr. LAYARD said he was not then prepared to answer
the question, but would do so to-morrow (this day), as he
had already promised.
The report was then agreed to.
THE IRISH CHURCH ESTABLISHMENT.

On the or der of the day for going into Committee o
Supply,

lift.: G. DUFF rose to resume the adjourned debate on
Mr. B. Osborne's motion for a select committee to inquire
as to the distribution of the revenues of the Irish Church,
The hon. member said that those who had assisted in the
bringing forward of the motion were well aware that they
were raising the most important question, and the greatest
grievance throughout the whole range of domestic politics ;
and they knew also that every weapon of sectarian animo-
sity would be brought into the field to combat them on that
occasion. But, on the other hand, they knew that the con-
dition of Ireland was a disgrace to the Liberal party, and
therefore the Liberal party owed a deep debt of gratitude to
the hon. member for Liskeard for rehabilitating this ques-
tion when it seemed on the eve of for ever falling through.
There was no country in the world where a Church Este
blishment received so much for doing so little ; and in his
idea the only remedy for such a grievance was proposed by
Cato to be applied to Carthage. (Hear. hear).
Mr. P. DAWSON was very much opposed to these po-
lemical discussions ; and while he admitted that animosi-
ties existed in Ireland with respect to religious endowments,
he nevertheless found those anomalies so indissolubly bound
up with the social status of Ireland that he must refuse to
meddle with them. He was equally opposed to the present
motion, to the motion of the hon. member for Peterborough
(Mr. Whalley), and to the motion of the hon. member for
Montrose (Mr. Baxter).
Sir R. PEEL said there could be no doubt that the
position of the times were vastly changed since this ques-
tion used formerly to be discussed in that house. lln
those days it stirred up the most serious religious dif-
ferences ; but now it could be discussed without calling
rth any excitement, except that produced by the abilities
of speakers. The hon. member for Liskeard had hardly
done justice to the question. No doubt he had made a
very clever speech, for they all knew him to be a man of
very convival parts. (Much laughter.) But his line was
altogether too jocose for so grave a subject; while, as re-
garded his facts, he had positively overdosed the house with
them. As regarded himself, the hon, member had certainly
no right to operate upon him in the manner he had done for
attending that meeting. Having drawn so terrible a picture
of the Irish Church he must say he thanked the hon. mem-
ber for his avowal that he did not desire to uproot it. The
hon. member said that this question was once both the
stalking-horse and the stumbling-block of the Liberal party.
[Mr. 13. Osborne—The Whig party.] Well, but the Whig

party was the Liberal party in those days. (Loud ironical
cheers below the gangway.) The fact was, however, they
could net proceed with the question, for the sense of the
country compelled them to give it up; and he did not be-
lieve that in these days, such was the temper of the house
and country on the question, that a Government could go
as far as the action of 1833. He contended that the Esta-
blished Church in Ireland was settled by the Act of Union

in complete connection with the Established Church of
England. ThcChurchTemporalitiesAct of 1833 had worked
very well, and he would have no objection to see its opera-
tion extended, but not by a select committee. Nothing
could be wiser than the provision made by the Government
of that day for the amelioration of the grievances which
then existed. The hon. member for Swansea had made
assertions the other night regarding the animosity existing
between Roman Catholics and Protestants in Ireland,
which were contradicted bp the written opinions of Sir C.
Lewis, of Mr. O'Connell, and of Canon Stanley. [Mr. Os
borne—Bishop Stanley, not Canon Stanley.] He thanked
his hon. friend for the correction. His hon. friend had
made some incorrect statements the other night, which he
was sure his hon. friend would be glad to have corrected.
He had stated the income of the Irish bishops to be in the
aggregate £BO,OOO a year. [Mr. Osborne—X7s,ooo.] But
the fact was that only 257,604 went to the bishops, and
the remainder went to the Ecclesiastical Commissioners.
There was only church accommodation in Ireland for
372,000 out of a Protestant population of 691,000. The
number of Protestants averaged 598 in every English parish,
and in Ireland it was 431. The revenues of that Church
were small compared with those of England and the Scotch
voluntary system, not that he was an advocate of the latter.
The opinion of those best informed on the subject, in c..n-
nection with the Roman Catholic faith, were entitled to re-
spect, and he quotted Archbishop Cullen to show that the
revenues of the Protestant Church were ten times larger
than those of any other church in Europe. He alluded to
the statement which had been made relative to his having
attended a mee' ing in London with reference to the Church
of Ireland, and observed that he went there solely for the
purpose for which it was called, and not for the support of
proselytism, and what he said there he was prepared to
adhere to, viz., that although there were many clergymen
who had not scope for their abilities, there were many
shining lights in Ireland who were doing the missionary
work well. He could assure the house he would infinitely
sooner sit below the gangway and advocate what he consi-
dered for the benefit of the country than to be obliged to
take a different course as an official against his conscience.
The revenues of the Church of Ireland, he believed, were not
more than sufficient for the purposes of that institution,

He opposed the motion, believing that the hon. member for
Liskeard had not sufficiently considered the magnitude of
the subject, and that it involved the consideration of the
Church system in England. If that moment had come, it
was time for them to choose their party for the struggle ;
and he assured the house that when that time arrived, he
should be found in the front in defence of the present system.
Mr. HENLEY and Mr. HENNESSY rose together, and as
there were loud cries for Mr. Hennessy the former gave
way.
Mr. HENNESSY censured at considerable length the
proceedings of the West Connsught Endowment Fund,
which he denounced as an imposture that had been vir-
tually exploded, and would never have been heard of
again but for the conduct of the right hon. the Chief Secre-
tary for Ireland in attending one of its meetings. The hon.
gentleman also quoted extracts from a speech of Mr.
Colquhoun, the chairman of the society, and from a pam-
phlet by Mr. Garrett, the secretary, the language of which
he considered to be violent and likely to produce ill-feeling
rather than Christian goodwill and brotherhood.
Sir H. CAIRNS opposed the motion, and characterised
the speech of the hon, member for Liskeard as equally con-
spicuous for its wit and familiarity and for its want of accu-
racy and absence of facts. (Hear, hear.) The revenue of
the Church of Ireland, he said, was described as excessive.
But what was the fact ? The number of incumbents con-
nected with it was 1,530, and the net parochial income
amounted to £.570,000, which, divided the one by the other,
and making no deduction for curates, would give to each
incumbent a stipend of £2lO a year. (Hear, hear.) Was
that excessive in itself, or out of proportion to what was
paid to the same body in England. The hon. and learned
gentleman then referred to an average taken from a previous
census, showing that the proportion of Episcopalians was
larger in Ireland than in Wales, though not so large as in
England. He also proceeded to review +he speech of the
hon. member for Liskeard (Mr. Osborne) on Friday night,
and by reference to the " Clergy List" and " Church Di-
rectory," and other authentic returns, that showed that
hon. gentleman had made a variety of mistakes, both in his
facts and his figures. He therefore contended that the hon.
member had not established that there was anything extra-
vagant or unnecessary in the amount and expenditure of
the endowments of the Church. (Hear, hear,) It was
alleged, however, that the Church had failed in its object,
but he denied that the population returns supported that
assertion, The fact was, there were 110,000 more Episco-
polians in Ireland at present relatively than in 1854, and
yet that was taken as a proof of the decline of the Church.
(Hear, hear.) It was again objected that the Church
encouraged missionary societies ; but what more singular
taunt could come from gentlemen who described the Irish
Establishment as a missionary Church, and erroneously
proclaimed its failure on that score ? (Hear, hear.) He
maintained that it was successful in that character, and
that the West Connaught Society, about which so much
had been said, had been peculiarly so. The object of the
present assault was to despoil the Church of its property;
but, overlooking the question of prescription, how did the
matter stand ? The commutation rent-charge amounted to
£400,000. and how much of that did Roman Catholics pay ?
Only £30,000. The truth was, there was no grievance;
and still more, there was no ground for it. The Irish
Church would not shrink from the hand which would
amend, but he trusted it would resist now and always any
proposal which, under the thin and transparent cloak of
amendment and improvement, sought in reality to destroy
and overthrow an institution which he believed was indis •
solubly connected with the best hopes of Ireland and the
truest interests of Great Britain. (Cheers.)
Sir G. GREY, as a member of the Cabinet, said the
Government were prepared to resist the motion of the hon.
member for Liskeard. At the same time he could not
defend with enthusiasm a system by which an exclusive
Church was maintained for the benefit of a small minority,
when no provision was made for the benefit of the clergy
of the majority. (Hew', and cheers.) The motion was
ambiguous in its terms and doubtful in its object, but its
ultimate effect it was intended should be the destruction of
the Church. That could not be done without revocation,
and for that be was not prepared. He regretted that at the
Union the policy of Mr, Pitta as not adopted, and provi-
sion made for the Roman Catholic clergy. The time had
now passed by for that ; and if it were now proposed it
would not only be refused by the country, but objected to
by the Roman Catholics themselves. It would be useless
further to discuss the subject; he, therefore, hoped the
house would reject the motion.
Colonel GREVILLE moved the adjournment of the

debate.
The house divided, when the motion was lost by 228
to 67.

Mr. MONSELL continued the debate. He supported
the motion for the inquiry, and denying that the question
had been settled in the year 1843, called upon the Liberal
party to be true to their instincts and traditions, and com-
plete the work which was then left unfinished.
After a few words from Mr. ScuLLY, Mr. LANIGAN
having previously moved the adjournment of the house,
The SPEAKER put the question, and no member ob-
jecting, the house adjourned at 25 minutes to 3 o'clock.

The Calamitous Boiler Explosion near

Leeds.

Three more persons have fallen victims to in-
juries received by this fearful explosion. We have
already reported that six were killed upon the spot,
but it turns out that one of them, named Farley, is
still alive. On Saturday and Sunday a man, lying
in the Leeds Infirmary, died, and a newsboy, named
Marshall, and a man, named Smith, died at their
own houses in Morley. The latter was a mason,
and his skull had been dreadfully fractured. Thus
there have in all been eight deaths from this
disaster.

Yesterday morning Mr. Jewison, the coroner,
opened the inquest on the bodies. The first step
taken was to appoint Mr. Hopkinson, civil engi-
neer, of Hudderbfield, to examine the remnants of
the boiler and report to the jury as to the probable
cause of the explosion. The jury tok a view of the
ruins.

Mr. Joseph Hopkinson, civil engineer, Hudders-
field, after examining the wreck of the boiler in
question, said he had found the safety valve fast.
(He produced it before the jury.) The spindle,
which move with the pressure, was quite fast. By
taking off the bonnet the cause of it being fast could
be ascertained. He had discovered a twist in the
lever which would prevent the free escape of the
steam, and the lengthening of the lever would make
the free working of the valve more difficult. The
defect in the safety valve was one cause of the ex-
plosion. He believed the pressure of the boiler
when it exploded was 70.
The Coroner said the inspector had evidently
lulled the parties into a state of false security.
The inquiry closed with a verdict of Accidental
Death."

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