The Sun.
London, England, 1839-02-20 00:00:00

PILE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY,-EVENING EDITIONS-FEBRUARY 20, 1839

grounds on which this motion is refused, by those who agree
in the policy of a change in the Corn-laws. I can well
understand why my Noble Friend near use conceives it would
be inconvenient and unwise to grant this motion.—(
hear.) His mind is made up on this subject—he entertains no
doubt whatever with regard to the propriety of a change in
those laws—he seeks no further information—he wishes for no
fresh facts. I may be told by those Hon. Gentlemen who are
against any change, like the Noble Lord behind me and his
Hon. Colleague, the other Member for Lincolnshire, that they,
seeking no change, still have made up their minds so decidedly
and fixedly, that they also consider the hearing of evidence at the
bar a waste of time. But give me leave to say and to state OR
this question that this is a very different answer corning
from those whose minds are made up in favour of
a change. I entreat this House to remember what
must be the feeling of that great body of petitioners who come
before you, asking you not for a change, asking you not for a
hasty decision—asking, not that you should at once legislate,
but, that you should hear their case—that you should give them
an opportunity of snaking out thei • statements, and laying their
facts before you. I ask, what must be their feelings, when
they hear from those, who are opposed to any c'iange, that they
will hear nothing—that they will listen to DO statement, that
they will give no opportunity to hear any evidence, but that they
are determined to adhere to their decision. Who are the par-
ties who seek to come to tte bar of your House? Are
they honourable in position in this coentry ? Are they per-
sons, whom we ought to trust for any ordinary purposes ?
Sir, they are the representatives of the wealth and intelligence
of a great portion of this country—they are the representatives
of that class to whom you owe all that wealth, and power, and
station which you hold among the nations of the earth.--
(Cheers.) Hon. Gentlemen may be proud of their landed
property—they may be proud of their long line Of ancestors—
but give me leave to ask you, what would your position now be
worth were it not for the rapid advances made in industry, in-
telligence, and wealth by those manufacturing and commercial
classes who now appear at your bar, asking you to hear their
statements. Sir, those parties who stand at your bar are the
representatives of the.Arkwrights, the Peels, and the Watts of
this country—they are the representatives of those to whem you
owe the means by which you have purchased your property,
ynd your independence, and by which you have been enabled to
contend against the united world for fifteen or twenty years.
These are the parties who now come to your bar ; but I ask
you when they merely seek a fair hearing—when they
demand merely an opportunity of la) ing their statements be-
I:re you, are they to be met with denial like that given by
my Noble Friend and 'he Hon. Gcntlenian who has spoken
last, that they will not hear them, because they have made- up
their minds. What we ask is the opportunity of stating our
case—of adducing facts—leaving you the full opportunity of
disproving them if you are able. Suppose this inquiry were
refused, in what situation will you stand? On the first night
of the Session my Hon. Friend ,the Member for Kendal in his
speech made mention of certain returns, which showed that our
exports were in a more favourable position last year than in any
p:evious one. The Right lion. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) at once
seized upon the admission, and -aid--" You have dole more to
overturn :he case made by the Corn-law opponents than we
could have done." Now, I will ask, are we toha.e no opportu-
nity of making clear our facts in o-position to that statement.
and the deductions mrde from it by the Right Ho. Baronet?
These manufacturers come here to tell you tl.at you have not
the accounts from foreign countries to lay before the House, and
that. you cannot he so intimately acquainted with the actual
competition they now meet with from those foreign countries,
and that which is now in preparation for opposing them still
farther. They come before you, and offer to prove thei case
—they offer to tender evidence at (he bar, which you may con-
contradict if you can—they Wish to show the manner in which
the Corn-laws operate against their interest, and how it must
eventually operate against. you.—( Cheers. ) But, Sir, if any-
thing could satisfy me more than another of the. propriety of
acquiescing in the motion of my lion. Friend, is, that the pro-
posal was refused in another place. So long as there was an
opportunity for the petitioners to prove their case before either
House of the Legislrtur -, I w.culd have been satisfied; but in the
other House access has been denied to us—eviCerice refused—and
the petitioners have no place to go to but to this House—the
representative of the nation ; and they are now before you de-
manding that which was never denied to any one in this
country—they come here to demand the justice of being al-
lowed an opportunity of stating their own case. And what
are the argument sused against us. Sir, I 'have heard from some
Gentlemen?—l have heard from a Noble Friend and others,
that inconvenience would arise from the prayer of the petition
being acceded to. Bat, good God ! when the great interests
concerned are considered, surely such an argument will not
prevail in the House of Commons. But again, it ATM sail, how
could an examination be conducted at the bar of the House?
Too many questions would be put, it was said. I for one, Sir,
am willing to take my chance of that.—(Cheer:,) All have
heard the admirable speech of my lion. Friend the Member
for- Wolverhampton, and if that required any confima-
tion, there was a quotation made use of in ano-
ther House last night, and being a quotation, I will take
the liberty of repeating it, and I have no doubt that it will
fully confirm the necessity for granting the prayer of the peti-
tioner—before I come to that point, however, allow me to dis-
pose of another objection. It was said that great delay would be
the consequence of granting the prayer of the petition ; exactly
the opposite argument is used by the petitioners. Delay can
not be the object of the petition ; they pressed for the result at
the earliest possible moment • they dread delay. The quota-
tion which I would take ;he liberty of reading relates to
the result of hearing evidence at the bar against the orders
in Council. I differ from the quotation to a certain
extent, but I should wish that. the • same result
should follow the present. motion. It was this :—" It
was stated that, " on the 20th of April, 1812, the House
agreed, without a division, t.o hear evidence in suppm t of the
petitions. The inquiry on the order of the petitions was wholly
conducted by two. Memlsers, and each night presented new
operations and new defeats to the Orders' in Council, and new
advantages to the oppositiOn. By incidental' debating' on
petitions presented, by discussions arising on 'e.videuce ten-
dered, by other mighty matters broached occasionally in con-
nection with the subject, the Government at first conceiving
there was a clamour raised out of doors against their policy, and
hoping this would of itself subside, endeavoured to gam time and
put off the hearing of the evidence ; but they kept steadily to
their purpose, and instead of calling in their witnesses at the
earliest possible hour, they at length prevailed so far as to have
it understood that the hearing should proceed daily at half-past
four o'eleck, and to continue at least till ten, by which means
they generally kept on till a much later hour, those who took no
peculiar interest in the subject having earlier left the House."
That is the result which I should expect from hearing evidence
at the bar of the liouse.—( Cheers.) I would not do Gentlemen
the injustice of supposing that their minds were made up,
and that they would not alter their opinions upon bearing
confirming; evidence at the introf the noose, ; My Noble
Friend says, that if you hear evidence ..on the one side,: you
must hear evidence from the other—that is what we are
anxious for. We arc impatient for it ; for statements are
made in petitions that are reckless and totally unsupported.
For instance, in one petition presented by an lion. Member
opposite
from Landbrecch, in the county of Cambridge, in
which it was stated that the petitioners viewed with in-
dignation and alarm -the dishonest and shameless cla-
mour which had been raised by ignorant persons against
the Corn-laws.—(Loud cheers.) Honourable Gentlemen
opposite cheered that sentiment, and by their cheering they say
that the agitation now existing was both dishonest anti shame-
less. You. say that our conduct. is both shameless and dishonest
—we want to show you at the Bar of the House, that it is
neither the one nor the other, but that it is necessary for the
welfare of the country that the House should have all the in-
formation that it was possible to-have on such an important sub-
ject. I cau scarcely believe, Sir, that Hon. Gentlemen would
bring such a grievous charge against men as respectable and in-
dependent as themselves, without doing them the justice of giv-
ing them a chance of disproving the calumny.—(Cheers.)
There was another charge in the petition :—" That it is an un-
questionable, as it is an undisputed fact, that foreign wheat, if
duty free, could upon an average of seasons, be imported to the
English market at a cost, including frieght and all other charges,
of 30s. per quarter."—(Laughter.) lie (Mr. T.) utterly de-
nied that; he had no occasion for evidence to show that it was
impossible. If they could get a small quantity, well and good
—but that they could get any considerable supply at that rate
was as impossible, and as much out of the question as to as-
sert that they could get it at 15s.—(1lear, hear, and
cheers.) 'f he Right Honourable Barone . (Sir James
Graham) seemed to assent to the accuracy of his statement.
A gentleman had stated that he had tried the experiment of importing
wheat, and found he could buy the best at Dantzic at 2ss. But when
he denied an assertion of the kind, they denied him the opportunity
of disproving them—of showing they were utterly unfounded. This
was what the petitioners sought, and this was what they would not
consent to receive. The petitioners, in the petition to which he
had just alluded, went on to say, "That they hope your Honourable
House will not be persuaded to listen to the clamour and importu.
nity of persons, whose demands, selfish and dishonest in
themselves, cannot be complied with but at the cost of
the character and of the credit of this country."—(Laughter.)
There might be truth in this,—but when such charges were
brought against the manufacturing and commercial classes, they
had aright to pray to be heard at the Bar. And after such a
petition as that, the House had no right to refuse them. His
Hon. Friend who had ouened the discussion, had stated a great
number of facts, asking- for an inquiry into them. It was not
his (Mr. T.'s) wish to add to them or to mention any
difference he might have on the subject, if he had any.
But he must say, in conformation of what had fallen
from the Honourable Member, that without communication.
with those manufacturers,he was satisfied that the trade and ma-
nufactures of this country were likely to be in a most perilous
condition.—(Hear.) He believed that the prognostics which
he took the liberty of offering to the House many years ago,
were in a way now to be accomplished. He believed that
although an increase might be shown in certain articles of our
trade—although it might be shown that they were altogether
stationary—he believed that this stationary position was most
unsatisfactory.—( Hear, hear, hear.) He did not wish
to go into -detailed statements, although standing in
the position which he had the honour to do, it might be his duty to
snake statements to the House.—(Sir J. Graham here made some
remark.)—The Hon. Member laughed. Then he would give bins a
statement.—(Cheers.) Now he would tell his Noble Friend (Lord
Stanley), who seemed to think he had a set and -dried answer to
some of the statements made as to the quantity of mills erected,
that, admitting all his facts, whatever might have been the increase
iu mannfactures, 'the difficulty in the race of competition which we
had to run had been immensely increased dining the last few
years. It was true that in what mi,,lst be termed almo-t all the
materiali of ,the industry of the country, our exports had increased
considerably, btit on those articled on which labour -most en. ered
to any censidefable extent, or in which the manufacturing process
had become more perfect, there we had, even fl•oin the returns,
suffered from competition. -And it would not be satisfactory to
him to continue standing even where we were at present, be-
cause the exports of other countries had gone on in au immensely
progressive ratio in some articles on which ours stood still. Ile
had separated, with reference to this, the particular trade which had
been the subject of discussion, namely, the trade with the Continent
of Europe, with the German nation—he had separated them into
those articles which might be considered as very much ma-
nufactured, anti those into which labour entered but little.
___(llear, hear.) He put amongst the latter articles cotton
twist, linen yarn, and woollen yard ; the cost of the labour by
machinery upon them being only about 21-d. per lb., instead of
Is. 2d. or Is. 3d. if the articles are made out. He would state to
the House what had been the course of trade with Prussia, Ger.
many, Holland, and Belgium, for through Holland, or Belgium, or
Germany, the whole of the supply must go to the German
union. The statement to which he referred was for 10 years end-
ing 1837. In I 827 ,on the first kind, the declared value exported was
.4,783,000, and of the last 2,259,000, making the proportion of the
first kind the second as 67 to 32. In 1828 the proportion was as 68
to 31 ; in 1829 as 62 to 37 ; in 1830 as 63 to 36 ; in 1831 as 5S to
41 ; in 1832 as 58 to 41 ; in 1833 as 55 to 44 ; in 1834 as 55 to 44;
in 1836 as 48 to 51; in 1837 as 47 to 52. Thus in the
course of eleven years this change took place, that whereas
the proportion was in the first yeas as 67 to 32, in the last it
was 47 to 52. Ile should be prepared to go further into deals if
necessary, but what he wanted to establish was this; that it was
advisable not to look to general results—to statements of this kind
o .Iy, but to investigate further, to probe the question more deeply,
and go more narrowly into it. There is one point more with refer-
ence to this subject that I wish to draw the attention of the House to.
It is to what took place in this House against the wishes of the
Government, inasmuch, as they were beaten on a division on the sub-
ject I allude to the hand-loom weavers' Commission appointed by
the Crown, upon an address from this House. Now, one part of that
inquiry naturally led to inquiries abroad. I moved, the other day,
for such reports as have been prepared by the Hand-loom Weavers'
Commission to be laid on the table. The general report cannot be
laid before the House until all the partial reports are in, but I have
moved for such reports as the'Commissioners are in possession of.
I may read, therefore, one of those reports which will be on the
table of the House in the course of a day or two. One of the

IsalTle,

GeoHeinen who were sent abroad went into Switzerland, Austria, there was another great question on which evidence was taken at
France, and Belgium, and the matter with which he con. the bar, and that was the state of the Slave Trade. When Mr. Wil-
cludes his report relates to competition with foreigners. berforcc laid that question beforethe House, he considered what was
[The Right Hon Gentlemen here read the extract, which stated the course he ought to pursue, and in May, 1789, a Committee of
that we were fo cing foreign countries that had increasing poptila_ the whole House was appointed to examine witnesses. In 1790 he
tions to manufacture those goods which they had hitherto pur. came to the House and complained of the inconvenience of the
chased from us, but that they would continue to purchase to a great course pursued, that little progress was made by this proceeding, ar.d
amount, were they permitted to send their agricultural produce in he snored for a Committee up stairs to carry on thet examination,
return. The productive energies of those countries were oppressed because, by such means, they would proceed more expeditiously than
by the Corn-laws, and thus we were prevented from having what in a Committee before the House. Now that was not named at the
sr her countries could best spare and we most wanted.] That is the commencement of the following session. If we were to pursue the
" this Gentleman has arrived at. (Cries of " Name, same course, we might, perhaps, come forward and say as little progress
name.") The report will be on the table in the had been made. Hethought it would be necessary topursue some other
course of two or three days, and then the evidence mode of inquiry. He was not d spored to the mode of inquiry his
upon which this conclusion is come to, may be seen. I only wish Hon. Friend proposed, and thought we ought not to adopt this mode
it was in the hands of every member now, inasmuch as I of proceeding to the exclusion of a Select Committee. He was
think it would assist him materially in forming an opinion on this prepared to act upon the whole view of the facts; it was upon Lich the
question. Sir, I have been led beyond what I intended to say by the Members of this House were prepared todecide, and when themotion
cheer of my noble friend opposite, relw ive to two statements of fact, was that the question should go into a Committee of the whole House,
but I will not trespass further on the attention of the House. My he was prepared to go into that question, but he was not willing to
aa:gdumdeinscturnetsetis.itesdolely upon the right of the petitioners to give give the people an opportunity of saying because you refuse to hear
evidence at the bar. That evidence I call on this House to information at the Bar you shut out all information altogether.
hear, unless it wishes to send those parties back dissatisfied It was not for them to prescribe the way in which they
By refusing to hear it, you can gain thought information should be taken and the object was to give
nothing—you will dissatisfy them. By agreeing to hear it you have information in the way in which M-. Wilbsrforce thought inconve.
an opportunity of contenting them by allowing them to produce nicnt. Then let the question be brought forward, and let it go into a
the ir facts; and as fair and candid Judges pi ought to hear that Committee of the whole House, and it would then be seen whether
evidence before coming to a decision on a point, on which, I in my the House felt disposed to alter the law, and go into evidence of
conscience believe, rests wholly the prosperity, and the happiness all the facts. He was not prepared to go into the general question
o
f the people of this country for many years to come.— (Cheers, and of the Corn-laws, but had merely confined himself to the question
cries of " Divide, divide.") before the House, that of hearing evidence before a Committee.
Mr. II INDLEY rose amidst loud cries of " Question. question,") Sir ROIVORT PEEL then rose (the House was then crowded in
he would not trespass more than a minute On the attention every part).—He said, Sir, the sincere respect I feel for the yeti
of the House? but he wished to read to Honourable Mem. tioners, say firm conviction that the interests which tt ey represent
tiers opposite the sentiments of one for whom he are of the utmost importance to the general welfare of this country,
believed they entertained great respect ; and when he mentioned makes me unwilling to give in perfect silence a vote which
the name, he had no doubt they would listen to him with silence— may appear to have something of harshness in it, excluding as it
he alluded to Mr. Pitt, who in 1785, when certain petitioners request- does, the inquiry for which they ask. But, Sir, I find it exemedingly
ed to be heard by evidence at the bar of the House, said " That he difficult to argue this question on the narrow ground upon which
would at all times be extremely delicate with reeard to the intro. we are called upon to-night to discuss it— (Hear, hear)--for
duction of any new precedent into the forms and proceedings of many of the reasons, upon which I feel bound to exclude the
the flt use, and particularly one of a nature that could by any means enquiry, are the very reasons I shill urge, in vindication of the
interrupt or impede the access of their constituents to Parliament, existing system or the Corn-laws.—(Hear, hear.) I must take
either with petition, remonstrance, e r advice, when they thought a larger view of thi question then was taken by the Hon. Mem.
their own interest, or that of the public, likely to suffer for want of ber for Wolverhampton, in coining to a decision. And I must look
due information ; that he should feel an irresistible temptation to to the general and comprehensive interests of this country.—
sacrifice, not only the forms, but even the positive orders of the (Hear, hear.) I must ask, even if the fact be admitted, that corn
House, rattler than suffer them to be an obstacle to any corn. is dearer in this country than in any other. I must inquire from
plaints which the apprehensions without doors might give rise what that has arisen.—(Hear, hear.) Is it the fault of the agricul-
to, in finding their way to the bar ; land so far was he turists, and what connection has taxation had with it ? When
trans wishing to encourage any obstacle of that kind, you tell me that corn is 60s. a quarter, I ask, is there not a para.
that although the House seemed almost unanimously to coin. mount necessity for maintaining the obligations •f public faith—
cide with him that joint interests were not entitled to sepa- (Hear, hear)—and is it just to repeal the Corn.iaws, while
rate iiiscussion of Counsel, yet he was satisfied he should be called continuing taxation upon the agricultural interests, whirls is the
in and directed to proceed in his argument." That was t.e way very cause of the higli price of corn ?—(Hear.) Can I shut out of
the subject was treated by Mr. Pitt.--(Bear.) my consideration altogether the operation of the land-tax—the
Sir H. FLEETWOOD would not have risen except for the operation of the Malt-tax—the operation of the Poor-laws—the
purpose of giving the Noble Lord the Member far North loin- operation of the county.rate—and of all those burdens
cashire an opportunity of knowing what the truth was relative whim press upon the landed interests?—(Loud cheers.) Can
to the manufactories of Preston, as the Noble Lord., had made I consent to argue this question merely upon the ground,
a speech the other day, the whole effect of whirls rested on a mere that corn is higher in this country than in any oth ,r, and
passing conversat!on.— (Oh, oh, and laughter,) He wished to show that if it were lower it would reduce the competition with our
the House and the people at large that even the Noble Lord was manufacturers ?—(Hear, hear.) Sir, I sue that I have excited some
not so well acquainted with the subject but that he must make the alarm by stating such impsrtant questions, as entering into this
whole pith and subst nee o f his speech rest entirely on the passing subject, but I cannot exclude these great considerations in mating
words of another Member passing up this House.—(Laughter.) up my mind as to the motion before the House.—(Cries of
He held in his hand information derived from the town he had " Hear, hear.") Still, as it appears to be the general
the honour to represent coming from gentlemen of the same wish of the Ilouse that, this question should be
politics as the Noble Lord, and who expressed their astonish. argued upon this narrow ground—l will take that grotind ;
ment at the statements made by him, which appeared he it narrow ground, or be it comprehensive ground, I run equally
in the public papers,—(Hear, hear.) They asserted that no factory, willing to argue the questioti--:.(Cheers.) Well, then, Sir, lam
(except one), had been commenced since the year 1836 ; that those asked to enter into an inquiry at the bar, as to the operation of the
which had been built,. were engaged for long previously, and that Corn-laws. Why do 1 resist it ? Upon the narrow ground of there
yesterday in the town of Preston, the working of short time, at eight being no direct precedent ? Upon the ground merely that the in-
hours a day commenced. He (Sir H. F.) would not enter into the quirt' would consume the time of the House? Ido not
question then, except to give the Noble Lord an opportunity of resist it upon any of these grounds. I resist it from
showing to the House, if he had it in his power, any evidence in the strong conviction in my own mind that the pre-
contradistinction to the facts he asserted the other clay.—(oh, oh.) sent system of Corn laws ought to be maintained—
He would boldly asset t the whole of that statement was incorrect.— (Loud cheers from both sides of the House)—and because you have
(Cries of" Hear, hear," and laughter on the Opposition benches.) hitherto b:ought forward no plausible arguments in my mind.—
It was a statement only giving part of what he had said. The .(Cheers from the Oeposition.) Sir, would there be no evil in the
Noble Lord did not ask for information on his (Sir H. Fleet_ protracted inquiry? ;You say the inquiry would be merely into the
wood's) authority, but only asked whether such and such facts operation of the Corn-laws ? Can you limit it ? Can you exclude an
were net the case ; therefore the Noble Lord must have known inquiry at the bar into the effect of the taxation of the land, and
something of the facts previously, or he would never have asked other complicated questions? Is it not perfectly clear, that the in.
him whether they were facts or not.—(Year, hear, and laughter.) quiry must be a most protracted one? hit not equally clew', that
He had no hesitation in stating that he himself was in error, in during the progress of the inquiry the application of capital must be
the number of factories he had imagined had teen built in a suspended—(Hear, hear)--that there must be a total uncertainty
few y eat s.—(Laught er.) The confession of an error was on the part of the agriculturists and the manufacturers as to what
no disgrace.—(Hear, hear, hear.) If a man like the Noble direction they should apply their capital ?—(Hear, heir, hear.)
Lord the Member for North Lancashire—himself a Member for And would there not therefore be the:greatest evil in an in-
a large inanufeetur:ng district was only able to found his arguments Vire' protracted during this Session and the next ?—ldoubt if you
on the passing: speech of another Member, what must be the case could confine it even within those limits.—(Hear, hear.) Then,
with the in ,jority of Members connected with the House? As they Sir, I consider whether the arguments that have been brought for.
woul : have opportunities to discuss the question, and as at that time ward in favour of an inquiry are so cogent as to induce me to enter
of night it did no good to a cause to continue a debate he would into it ? Sir, I listened wills great attention to the speech of th e
sit down.— (Hear, hear, and cries of " Question" " Question.") Hon. Member for Wolverhampton. I quite agree with hitn as to
Lord STANLEY was sorry that he should have been called upon the great importance of this question ; and that we ought, ex.
to enter into the debate, and would regret if an air of eluding all party and, political feelings as much as possible—that
ridicule was thrown on the present important discussion. we ought, as men of business, to inquire whether the manufac-
When his Honourable Friend, the Member for pre, turing interests are se depressed—are in such a state of
ton, told him that he was extremely sorry that he decay as to lay the foundation for the investigation.—(Hear.) Now
(Lord Stanley) should have acted on such loose information—(a says the Hon. Member for Salford (not imitating the example of
laugh)—in making a statement as to the number of factories built those who preceded him in the debate), " I will throw discredit on
in the town of Preston, he (Lord Stanley) could only express his the opponents of this inquiry by showing that this is a landlord's
regret that he should have acted on such statements, and would as. question, and that the farmers have no interest whatever in it."
sure the House that he would n.l again act on similar authority.— Sir, is it quite so clear that there must be a reduction of
(Great laughter.) He was startled on a former evening by an ex. rent if the Corn-laws are repealed.—(Hear, hear) Don't you tell
pression of an Hon. Member opposite that it could be proved that us that your object is not to reduce the price of corn
within the last few years a great decrease of machinery and of ma. —that you don't expect to reduce the price of corn ?—(" No, no,"
nufoeturing had takers place in the manufacturing districts, from the Anti-Corn-law Members)—yes, many of you say, that
Mr. HUME—Two years. though the effect would be to raise the price of corn in foreign
Lord STANLEY—Two years. The Honourable Gentleman countries it will not diminish it here.—(Hear, hear, and No, no.)
seas very particular—(Great laughter.) That for two years Suppose the landlords believe you, and that they don't reduce
the manufacturers had been manufacturing and exporting their the rent of their tenants, do you believe that the stock
goods at a loss, and, notwithstanding that, they had felt it impossible of the tenant, consisting in his plough, his farming titen_
to leave the trade ; but, said the Hon. Member for Manchester, he ails, &e., can be so easily transferred to other occupations
admitted, if new hands could come into the trade, and if the trade when the bad lands are thrown out of cultivation ?—(Hear, hear)
had erected fresh machinery, his argument would wholly fall to the
ground. Fortunately, or unfortunately for him (Lord Stanley), as Sir, this is a tenant's question fully, at least as much, as a landlord's
question—(Cheers)—and when we come to a full consideration of it
it might happen, his Hon. Friend the Member for Preston was it is a labourer's question.—(Tremendous cheering from the Opposi-
passing by, and having some acquaintanee with the town of Prestos Lion.) We will show you that your anticipated good can only arise
having frequently passed through it in the last few from a reduction of wages, and that reduced wages, with a low price
years—anti having remarked, as every one must remark, the num. ef corn, though commanding a greater quantity of corn, yet would
ber of new factories that had lately been built, he asked his Hon. not command a greater quantity of other articles almost equally es-
Friend, not whether there had been any great increase, but whether sential to the comforts of the labourer; that therefore the la_
he could furnish him with the precise amount of increase? " Yes," tourer will not be benefited by a reduction in the price •f
said his Hon. Friend, " I can—there have been within the years corn.—(Cheers from the Opposition, and cries of "Ohl oh!" from the
1836, 1837—(" N', no," from Sir H. Fleetwood)—there beim Ministerial benches.) Sit, we are told that though' manufactories
been, within the years 1836 and 1837, built in the town of Preston may have been building and factories erecting in all directions, yet
19 new factories, one of them at an expense of 60,0001. before it no profits have been raised.- Why, when the farmers: said this in
could be put into operation, which 19 factories have occasioned the 1833—when they said that they were farming their land without pro-
building of 1,500 houses, and of those nineteen ,factorles• lit—what ridicule was cast upon them They were asked if Base-
-1 e—to show :lie accuracy of his Iforiekatend—(Laughter)_o 1 i shot-heath could be cultivated without profit, and you pressed, as
were built in One of those yew's, atid 8 sieve built in the other."— you thought, that there was nod iiiculty in diverting capital from
(Laughter.) That was part of the conversation whirls his Hon. one cm)loyment to another--that it was ut:erly impossible that land
Friend bad accused him of having suppressed. He did not say to could be cultivated without prefit. Well, the same argument applies
18:38 any new ones had been built—the speculations of the previous to your assertion that factories are building without profit.—(ilear,
years caused an overbuilding, and there had been a stagnation, hear.)
sl understood the lion. Gentleman to say that he admitted
That was the statement of his Hon. Friend, the Member for Preston there had been an increase in the exports of manurat lured articles.
—it was made; in the presence of several gentlemen near him First you say that the increase has' taken place without any curre.
(Lord Stanley), who heard what had passed Oct ween himself and his seondingoroflt,and then you assert that the increase has taken place on
Hon. Ft tend. He regretted if he had led the House into an error, but what may be eonsidcred the raw material—viz. that description of ma-
he had given the facts stated by his Hon. Friend, anti quoted his nufactured goods or articles in which the cost of hinnati food enters in
words and language alone. What was the inference by his friend ? smallest proportion; that in every article in which there is much of
He did not deny that there had been a great increase in the factories value and labour, there has been a progressive decay. In the case
Within the lust few 3ears—his friend did not deny the facts, anclutelim
gout'
icteod, ttoanutdvviiisttehicisdecoctstsoet:
the article
rttlileelree
is intended
hi,ittetluedehdittioianbeuf
labourusn t,e
re:
Hon. Member for Manchester endeavours to get out of the g
Lion for the last two years, for he said that the increase of factories tured abroad. I will suppose, first of all, that time Hon. Gentlemen's
was no proof of prosperity, because they might have been contracted statement is well founded. The Hots. Gentleman says that a great
for two Years before. What cared he (Lord Stanley) for that, competition has lately arisen throughoutthe whole of Europe, and he
when he saw that the inference sought to be drawn was that the assumes, that by the operation of the Corn-laws those who were
Corn-laws were the cause of distress, and when it was shown that in the consumers of our manufactured goods are become our corn-
-1835, 1836, 1837, and 1838 there had been a great increase in the Peiitoras Why, in the first place, supposing his facts to be tor_
factories. HE had no doubt that the manufacturers 'suffered a loss— red, lam not at all prepared to admit that that can be attributed
he had no doubt that they did not make such large. profits now as to the Coriolaws.—(Cbeers.) How can we expect that there
formerly. No man disputed that there was agreat falling off in the will not be an increase of manufactured goods all over the
profits—no man could dispute that ; and since 1815, when univer- world ?—(Cheers,) The lion-Gentleman says, don't pride yourself
sal p ace took place in Europe, it was not at all surprising that ma- upon the superiority of your English manufactures and your Eng-
nefactui es should have increased in foreign countries. Bet it was fish capital—don't suppose that some case will arise in which Eng.
said this was a proof that the Corn-law system was a source of Kish capital must not necessarily prosper—don't, indulge in presages
manufacturing loss. To say the least of it, it was the least that ought to be exploded, that you had some mysterious ant secret
substantial argument he had ever heard. (Hear, hear.) power ever the rest of the world. Sir, nothing could be more eh
Gentlemen said they had not made so much as before, surd than such an idea, but I ask the Hon. Gentleman to extend
Now, his lion. Friend had thrown some ridicule on the subject, and the same reasonings, and inquire for himself, whether, after the
he might therefore mention a comparison which had been given to lapse of twenty-three years of profound peace, whatever be the
him by a friend, who had written to him the other day. He stated operation of the Corn-laws, it must not be expected thet the ns-
that the discussions that had taken place on the Corn-laws tions of the Contineut will become manufacturers for themselves ?
put hi nin mind of an old woman who asked him for charity ; , she Look at Saxony, says the Hon. Gentleman, and see the enormous
stated to him that she got her living by selling matches, but said progress she has made in fifteen years. Why, Sir, I ask the Hon.
she—" I can assure your honour I lose by every match I sell, but Gentleman to read the history of Saxony for the four years
God lye praised I sells great many of them." Such was the complaint previous to that of 1815, when it was the Wade-VW
of the manufacturers; they said, "We lose by every yard we whereon all the great contests of Europe weredettided, and I ask you
sell, but God be praised we sell a great deal."—(Great laughter.) when peace was restored arc you surprised that the inhabitants of
He really had not intended to be led into a discussion, but as to the that country should turn their attention to the peaceful employment
fact of a great increase within the last few years he would turn of their capital and labour ?—(Cheers ) Sir, it is because they are
to the first Report of the Poor Law Commissioners in 1835. men—it is because they are embued with the samefeelingsof a love of
That report stated that in Bolton, Manchester, and several other gain—these are the reasons why manufactures are extending them.
places, there was a very great increase of horse power required selves throughout the Continent. But, says the lion. Gentleman,
in 1835. 'The House must recollect that the Corn-laws had the United States of America are becoming manufacturers
been in operation for a considerable period—the injurious Corn- —(Cries of Hear.) . Is any thing more natural than
laws, which prevented the manufacturers from having their profits. they shi uld become so's? In the progress of civilization, as their
The new horse power ie that year required was a total in the towns and their populations increase with an enormous home
cotton districts of Lancashire of no less than 7,507 horse.. market, as the profit of cultivating land diminishes, is the Hon.-
Ile reed not stop at that period, for in the following year Mr. Gentlemen surprised that there is no extrinsic cause to account for
Megeeridge stated that the expectations of Dr. Key, who had made such a country gradually increasing its manufactures ? But, Sir, I
appeared likely to be fully say if I admitted the Hun. Gentleman's facts I should not be pre
borthefle statementsuut,
at,
d that
t Isisthe
le'rx7ciocutastiyo(nar,shad not been overrated. Ile pared to condemn the Corn laws upon the two grounds which he
quoted this in vindication of having rashly, injudiciously, and inn. has laid down ; RI-it, that the price of corn is higher in this country
prudently adopted the statement of 111 s Hon. Friend the Member than on the Continent, and secondly, that those who were formerly
for Preston. lie quoted this as a vindication of
animprudence on our consumers are now become our competitors,
his
,itairiet:,ceavue:estoexbcemytetrheentceod;—r J.C‘,l.Zer,,S,i,)ichTnh.tezrhetmacigthfirto,
mhoawdeivmeir:
BMirr.RVOIBLELRIETRS—I assert that.
be PEEL—But I deny the Hon. Gentleman's facts.
notion not of expenditure but of profits made by manufacturee, (Cheers.) The Hots. Gentleman says that there has been a gradual
and there might be grounds for supposing that the manufacturers diminution its the export of all those articles in the cost of the pro.
were not driving a trade where the profits were large, compared to duction into whish the cost of living enters. Now I trust that the
the amount of goods exported. House will pardon me if I limit myself to the new ground upon which
Sir 11. FLEE ['WOOD wished to state to the House what he he has argued this question, and I truit the House will listen to the
really had mid. He was 'sassing up on the other side of the House, attempt I shall make to demonstrate the fallacy of the Honourable
when the Noble Lord stopped him, and asked whether there was not Gentleman's statements.—(Hear, hear.) iam going to show you
a emit increase in the mauufactures of Preston. He answered him that the view which he take, of the relative increase or diminution
that there was. He thought that he had stated that in one of British tnanufactures ought not to be taken as he has described.
year there was an increase of ten manufactories, and another lam going to show you that not only has there been an increase in
of nine ; but that he had never mentioned to him the year ; the amount of our manufactures— that not only in
but when he came back he stated
atondhtimhatthtatitetyhietafdacbteoerniehsuthdetnsibuuceil;t
or
amount
ttoonf wool or orhaswootlhleenre yabreneii oranof comrtetoan,e, tsvistbut
he hail rea ly stated to the Noble Lord, and though I will try to convince you that there has been a progressive inc. e
rid of a question by a sarcasm, he 'in the export of those very articles, in respect to the price of which
(Sir H. Fleetwood) could not agree svuth him in that.--(Laughter.) the cost of human subsistence does enter.—(Hear, hear.) Sir, I
ell
. Mr. BROTH ERTON knew very well that the manufactures of hold in my hand an account which I believe to be correct,
before, rt,
get
the country had increased to avery great extent, and he hoped they being a comparative statement of the declared value of British
hadschbsts..eir: cui
would continue to do so, as the property of the country depended cotton goods exported from the United Kingdom in earls of
•t cheering.) It was •
ery possible that a the last eight years, distinguishing the several species of
upon •
had been contracted
number of milts for years ago, manufacture. What lam going to show is, that there has been a
he did
whirls were nosy completed;
h e might thgiarigke(iltf,',.)errl;n:,
not deny that such was the progressive increase in the last year, as compared with the former
case; but what had been the result ? Why, the manufacturers seven years. Not in the raw material alone—not in cotton yarn, or
were not getting the profit, of that there could be do doubt, and it cotton twist, but an increase in those very goods in which manual
was a many periods
also certain that atthose mills were carried on labour chiefly enters, and the price ef which ought to be affected by
when tl e manufacturers were notgetting any profit at all; and for the price of provisions. Now, Sir,: the total quantity of cotton
the truth of that he could appeat to
a vast body of the mannfactur_ goods exported—
ers of the country, when, however, they came to a certain loss, then An HON. MEM flea —To all parts of the would?
it was their interest to stand slit.: • a Itogether. With reg red to the mills Sir ROBERT PEEL—'To all parts of the world, and say that this
being erected, it had beets stated. over and over again, that goods is Infinitely more satisfactory than the opinions of any gentlemen
which required great labour,decreased, but that with regard whom we may examine at the bar. That Hon. Gentleman may tell
to yarns, the exportation had had•
increased. If gentlemen determined me that the exports to Saxony have declined on account of powerful
not to
have an alteration iu the system of the Corn.laws, until they cotton-mills being established in Switzerland or in France; but 1
decrease, they Would fit
saw manufactures lie
wasid to their cost that that should protest against any conclusion tieing drawn from individual
period would be too late. convinced that the interests and testimony. I say, Sir, refer to the total exports—let us know the
prosperity of the agricu'turregard
depended upon the prosperity whole of the trade, and from the general results let us determine
of the manta:tures. With al
_ e m
tothe propriety of ordering cal- whethr that argument, founded on the decay of our manufacture.
dente to
be received at the bar if Gentlemen had made up their and the only atguent I have to contend against, is well groundel
minds heard,
that it should not be well and good—for his part he —(Hear, hear)—l shall exclude all the other points—l shall ex.
required no evidence at all to prove to him the inhu- elude the case of Ireland—l shall exclude all other considerations,
f the present law he had always been desirous and argue this, as you demand it, on your narrow ground, viz., Has
inanity o
of labour for •
children in factories,and he the export of th:ss manufactured articles, in which the price of
of decreasing the hours
always should be,
but that was not the
subject of the debate for labour and manual skill chiefly enters, declined ?—(Hear, hear.)
that night. All he wanted was a clear stage and no favour.— First, I. shall take the total amount of CattOn goods exported
(Laughter.) Tlme Hon• Gentleman appeared not to be convinced I shall take the average of the last eight years, and I shell exclude
that the object of having evidence heard at the bar was to from my calculation those years which the Honourable Gentleman,
d to enlighten convince the country an the mind of the somewhat arbitrarily introduced into his statement, taking at one
landed interest.—(Hear.) Bring evidence to the bar of the time the yet.rs 1826, 27, and 28, and at another time, the five years
he would show the farmer that he was not after the peace, but I shill take the last eight years, dining whirls this
House, andoperation. 'That is the first test of the Corn-
rentsinterested in the question, but that the effect was to keels up the Corn laws have been in
laws. Sir, I contend that these manufactures have flourished,
of the landlords.—(Hear.)
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that in respect to the question iand have progressively increased. I shall compare the average of
before the House, what had been said by IsisNob'e Friendthe the last year 1838 wills the averages of the seven preceding }'ears,
reasonable candour to attend to the results
of War, had completely forestalled any thing he might be and I ask any man of
S cr. tary I lay before the House; First, I shall state the total
He would state now that his opinion was more in which 1 shall
inclined so say. 1 the total amount of cotton goods
conformity to the ancient mode of inquiry. 'The various modes amount of cotton goo s
it
18
were treated in the seven years preceding 38—the average was
in which great objectsthat House, had been exported in
I
alluded to by his Noble Friend the Secretary of War, who pointed ot),100,0001. declared va ue—•mind , not official valise. What
It of the averages for the lost year,
out the difference between a former question and the question before has been the restilB3B ?
Use House. This was a question to which Members of the House i Why, Sir, it has increased from the average of 20,000,0001. to
Takin the total of cotton goods,
came with minds prepared to listen to facts anddecide impartially, but 24,000,0001.—(Loud cheers.)
g

the declared value of all the cotton goods exported in 1838, as
,ompared with the seven preceding years, exhibited an increase of
4,000,0001. declared value.—(l ouci and continued cheering.)
No doubt the Honourable Gentleman will say, but you
include in that the export of cotton twist and yarn. Certainly I
do—l give you the total amount of cotton goods, and I shall tell you
what the increase on the export of cotton twist and yarn is. The
average of the seven years preceding 1838 was 5,340,0001.—the
declared value of the cotton twist and yarn exported in 1838, com-
pared with the average of the seven preceding years was 7,430,0001.
thus accounting, no doubt, for 2,000,0001. of the increase of the
whole. Now, Sir, I have to account for the remaining two millions,
which, in additi.n to the two millions on cotton yarn, is the treat
increase for 1838. The Hon. Gentleman complained grievously of
the declining state of the hosiery trade. He read to the House
an account of the exports of hosiery from Saxony to Cuba,
and the dimninisheel exports from this country to Cuba.
Sir, I say, in order to judge of the whole results one must not take
the single case of Saxony, nor the exports to Cuba ; but in order to
decide whether the hosiery trade is in a state of almost hopeless de-
crepitude, we must look for the average of 7 years' exports to all
the world, and then strike the average for 1838. The average of
the seven years to which I have alluded, of the hosiery exported, was
587,0001.—the d eared value—while in this falling trade in 1838,
.till the declared value amounted to 650,0001.—(Cheers) Now,
Sir, I will take another large branch of our manufactures—one in
which manual labour largely enters. I will new take the articles
of calico, muslin, dimities, shawls, and hats. These are articles in
which human labour constitutes the greatest part of the value. The
average for the sere i peers before 1839—the declared value of our
exports in these articles amounted to 13,300,0001.—in 1836 the de
glared value of the exports of the same articles had risen to
15,320,000/.--(Cheers.) This is your ruined and falling elf trade.
In cotton twist and yarns, as I have before stated, the average for the
seven years previous to last year was 5,340,000, while in 1138 it
had risen to 7,430,0001; se that you have an increase upon the ag.
gregate exports of the country. I can tell you what it was. The
increase during the last year is from the average for the last seven
years of 14,700,0001., to the amount last year of 16,700,000.—
(Loud cheers.) This is a positive increase, and that increase upon the
highest description of our manufactures, upon those in which hu-
man labour most largely enters. Now, I shall ask how can it be
gravely contended, with suck facts before us, that the manufac-
turing prosperity of this country is diminishing, and is in such
jeopardy as the Hon. Gentleman would have us believe, or that the
operation of the Corn-laws has been so hostile to the best interests of
the country ?—(Cheers.) The Hon. Gentleman then efere en to
the increase of the imports of cotton into various States in Europe,
and therefore, as a consequence, there was good ground for believ.
ing that our cot; on inanufactures must necessarily be on the decline.
Now, Sir, I have a return in my hands. I cannot be answerable
for its accuracy, but it is taken from a circular which was published
in Liverpool, and woich is, I believe, implicitly relied on by the
trade, and which contains an account of the consumption of cotton
in all the countries during 1837 and 1838. The Hon. Member
referred particularly to Switzerland and the States of Germany.
Now, Sir, this return professes to give an account, and this is what
it states. The cotton imported into England in 1337 was
1,059,000 bags, while in 1838 they amounted to 1,208,000 bags.
The cotton impo -ted into France in 1837 was 357,839 bags, and
in 1838 it had risen to 393,000 bags, showing an increase in France,
but the result of the whole imports into the other countries of
Europe, comparing the consumption of 1838 with that of 1837,
was that there was a deficiency of 2 per cent. in the
latter year. I do not mean to say that there has been a
decline in all countries, but there was a decline upon the whole of
2 per cent.—(t dicers.) In France the increase amounted to 9i
per cent , but, let me ask, what was the increase in Great Britain ?
Why, the increase amounted to 178 per cent.—(Loud cheers.)
Now, how can it be gravely contended, in the face of these facts,
that our manufacturing interest was in such an alarming and
falling state; the refore I cannot agree with the Hon. Member
that our manufactures are in a gloomy and alarming state
and that our former consumers are about to drive us out of foreign
markets. My opinion, Sir, is that while the blessing of peace re-
mains with us and other nations, it is impossible for us to remain
the manufacturers of cotton for the whole world. It is impossible
that we can be s 9, for while a country has a long period of peace,
when protection is given to her industry, it is the most natural
thing in the world that she should increase her manufactures—
(Cheers)—and I was mot aware before that it was one of the
maxims of political economy to repine at or to take means
to stop time progressive improvements of the human race.
(Loud cheers.) The object of the Hon. Gentleman opposite, is to
increase the price of corn in all foreign countries, in order to
check the progress of their manufactures. Not a very benevolent
object I must confess. The object then being to diminish the
manufacturing prosperity of other countries, is there not a bare pos-
sibility that other countries may find out what our object is,
and defeat it.—(Cheers and laughter.) Is it not just possible
that they may attempt to save their manufactures by im
posing a duty upon the export of corn, which will deprive us
from the largo revenue expected from the core, and wholly defeat
our object. I have already stated that this country consumes fifty.
two millions of quarters of grain in a year. Let me how ask
whether it would be a wise consideration for this country which has
hitherto depended upon internal sources of supply to snake the
experiment—(Hear, hear)—how far in case of war or famine
it might rely upon procuring for money the necessary amount of
food from foreign countries 2 (Hear, hear.) This would lead us
into a general consideration of the Corn-laws into which accord_
ing to the prosbriliet limits of the Hon Member for Wolverhamp
ton I shall not now enter, but which I shall be ready to undertake
when a general consideration shall come on, and,to show that it
is the interests of all classes, and the interests of the manufactur-
ing classes especially, not to persevere in the fallacious notion of
interfering with agricultural prosperity for their own benefit. But
I argue on the grounds of the Hon. Gentleman. He promised to
make a prima facie case in support of his motion, that
under the present system the declared value of manufac.
tured produce, into which, reanual labour chiefly en.
ters, has decayed, and that foreign manufactures have
increased to an alarming extent; but I have shown that 'our
exports in general are very much increased, and that those menu-
factures which are of a finer description have also increased, in our
exports, in a corresponding ratio—that if the competition in cotton
twist, manufactured abroad, is great, the manufacture of England,
in this department is at least equally as flourishing. Now, seeing
what must be the evils of a protracted inquiry, and of agitating the
public mind, on these narrow grounds—passing by the general
considerations of the question, I must, with all respect to the peti-
tionere, give my decided negative to the application. —(Loud cries of
" Divide, divide.")
Me. VILLIEItS rose to reply. When I brought my motion
before the House this evening, I had some doubts as to the propriety
of the course I lied adopted, and some doubts as to whether my
view was justifiable and correct. I now rise with very different feel-
' ings. lam now confident that the course which I took and which
the petitioners recommended, was a wise and sensible one.—(Hear,
hear.) Unfortunately I was not in the House when the Noble Lord
' opposite spoke against the motion ; but from what has been repeated
to me I believe that what hest ited was very little in place.--(A laugh.)
and Ile.tr.) He took it upon him to assure the House that the
inqbiry would be idle, because the facts were admitted, and it
would be impos-ible to add anything further. I think this idea
'of the Noble Lord has been disproved by what was subsequently
said. As I entered time House the Noble Lord opposite (Stanley)
was speaking. He seemed to assume that my facts were not car-
rect. Another Noble Lord spoke as if I had not spoken, as he
threw my views entirely out of the question. He reasoned
against the inquiry, on account of the general increase of manu-
factures and of capital iti this country—that there are mills, and
more of the general materiel of manufacturing energy than hitherto.
Consequently, argued he, the manufacturing Interest of this country
is in s most flourishing condition. From what 1 have heard, however, I
am enabled to say that the Right Hon. Baronet oppositetreated the sub.
ject with the respect itdeserved, and in a more straightforward way
than any other Hon. Member opposite.—(Hear, hear) I was told
that the Noble Lord opposite ridiculed the idea of the inquiry, and
treated my motion with contempt.—(" No, no," from Lord Stanley.)
The Right Hon. Baronet, however, fairly admitted that if they
should establish the facts which they had alleged in evidence, he had
made up his mind on the subject. He (Mr. Villiers) did not blame
the Right Hon. Baronet for this difference of opinion with himself ;
he must have believed that he (Mr. Vil iers) had misrepresented
the case, he must have believed that lie was not correct in his in.
formation on the subject. He would, if the House would permit, set
himself right with them on this subject by briefly recapi.
tulating what he had said concerning it in his opening speech.
—(Cries of " No," and laughter.) He begged to assure the House
that he could do it in one sentence. Although he had said that there
were certain indications designating the approach of considerable
evil to this country by the loss of its manufactures well
worthy of consideration in this investigation, lie had par-
ticularly guarded himself in the statement which he
had made. The petitioners stated clearly that they had ceased to
export to other countries, to which they had formerly been in the
habit of exporting, and they wished to show the House
the cause why they had done so, and, in proof, lie
referred to the rapid increase which had taken place in the
exports of other countries, while we had all the advantages
attendant upon our being an old manufacturing country, while
they were subjected to all the disadvantages necessarily attendant
upon their being an infant manufacturing population, which so far
from being an aclvantige, as had been represented by some Hon.
Members, was a decided disadvantage. How is it that these countries
hare so rapidly increased ? This is the case of the petitioners. On
this case issue is joined, and on this issue the petitioners wish
to offer sou evidence. There were indications already of the
cause why our exports have not increased in the same proportion
as the exports of other countries. Not only do we no longer pos-
sess that monopoly of manufacturing which we formerly possessed
—not only do foreign manufacturers undersell us its their own
markets, where we formerly had the monopoly, but they even go
into other markets, compete with us, and undersell us there. We
admit these facts—we admit that we are undersold, and ask you
to inquire into the cause. The Right Hon. Baronet has stated no
fact contravening these positions. He (Mr. Villiers) did not deny
the official returns—he did not deny that the gross exports of goods
had increased, but it was the difference in the proportion of
those exports which constituted their case. Nothing has been stated
to night which shows that the House is in possession of sufficient
information on this subject to enable it to come to a decision on
the general question. It is clear that the operation of the Cotted.
laws in in producing this state of timings is not generally admi
As long as any difference of opinion remained on this
subject it was clear that it was a case for inquiry.
The petitioners desired to be heard at the bar in preference to
going before a Select Committee, because Select Committees had
fallen into utter discredit. None of the great changes which had
recently been effected had been effected by a Select Committee.
In the cases of the Poor Law and the Municipal Law what had
Select Committees done ? Not a fact had been elicited by the Poor-
law Commissioners which hail net over and over again been pub-
lished by Committees of this House, and yet they had been unable
to produce any measure founded on the Reports of those Com.
'ultimo. If it was desired to smother inquiry, the best method
that could be adopted, was to refer the matter to a Select Com-
mittee,—(Loud cries of " Question," in the midst of which the
Hon. Gentleman sat down.)
Sir It. PEEL—I would not have spoken at all if I hail not un-
derstood the Hon. Gentleman's first speech in tl,e sense I stated. If I
had not understood the Hon. Gent. to have stated there we, e certain
indications which provident statesmen ought to attend to, I should not
have spoken at all.—(Cries! of " Spoke, spoke, Divide, divide.")
I took down at the time what I understood the Hon. Gent. to say,
namely, that the manufacture of those articles, in the manufacture
of which manual labour enters, or is affected by the price of provisions,
are gradually decreasing, and that the manufacturers are being
driven out of the market by competitors. I read my returns for the
purpose of showing that I did not think we were in the condition
the Hon. Gent man suppesed.—(Hear. hear )
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the House di-
vided, when there appeared— 17R
For the Motion 361
Against it
Majority against the Motion —lB9
t
The other Orders of the Day were then disivmsed of,
and
he
I House adjourned at a QUARTER to TWELVE O'CLOCK.
'es, e.,....esessesese

A RoYAL ANECDOTE.—(From a Correspond-
ent.)—On Saturday afternoon last the Queen, accompanied by a few
of her attendants, all on horseback, went out for a ride, and having
preceeded as far as 0:d Oak Common, Hackney, it was the Royal
wish to procee4 across there and return home by the Harrow road.
From the heavy rains, however, it was found a matter of dialculty
so to do, and her Majesty accordingly gave directions to one of her
suite to ask an old shepherd in the service of R. Tubbs, Esq., a
eounty magistrate, if he would allow them to go by a nearer war
across one of his tnaster's meadows. To this request the old and
faithful servant, whose name is Langley, end who has been in the
family upwards of forty years, gave a pssitive denial, whereby the
!loyal party ha.l to ',turn by the same way as they came. On it

b- -
eing mule known to Langley who the Royal party was, he did not
seem at all surprised, but said should the like coincidence again
occur he should act in a similar manner. _ _

CURIOUS PETITION.—At the meeting of the
town council of Newcastle, on Wednesday, a petition was presented
signed by 115 servant maids of that town, praying that they might
not be compelled to sweep the streets in front of their masters' hong? s
daily, as they are now obliged to do by the by-laws of the council.
—Hull Paper.