The Sun.
London, England, 1808-02-19 00:00:00

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• ' - • . me tiglit Tratiourabo; G,eftOillan
boa to present ' • ' *• ' - = -rtev g•ret'ino as eVen .
, pratemg ior A Itorec!, ,tik. • 1. X • ,
aneeSt to submit the isul,,le,',l 10 the 'cansiderittion of ; himself had admitted, that the Grand July teed been
his Maje Sty's nil is; cis, w licnever.the rediess could ' disiol'vecl previous to the inquiry, aokcertainly be-
be effedually-adinigistered by them, rather than bring, fore the presenting of the Petition. • Without, any
thl_ leaner forward publicly in Paniiimeee - Thiri wish.to. oppose the Petition, he thought theouse
course had been followed iii the, present, instance. A could; not entertain it with such, tin unfounded!H cie»
coilmanication ha,l.heoil made to his Siniesiy'S. Go ' 'eienation of the parties who presented it. .
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"diluent I)\ the Foremaii of the Grand .I"iire, io 'in , . ..... .:. -
'II 'l,Li -VC fa, LOR • If. .111 e . E.VC II L. .'l L: Bit
intervie witicii he had with one. of his Nia;esty's' . 'remain-landed to the-,Right HotiourabL. Gentil'...coaa,
Ministers. As no steps had sincebeen iaken 41 con- :on this ground, to witfo4raw..theVerition for the pre-
sequence of such' communicatiOn, he had tbouglit
,it sent, in order to have prepaTed to present to-
his dory to present the Petition to Parliarnent. .13.0 t morrow, with ap, oiler designation of the parties,
he should for the present content himself with -mov'.. in which. case he should himself be ready to secondl.,
ing, that the Petition do lie t-, on the table, leavincr the ' the: Motion, that the Petitiot should lie on t
'hole credit of the business to his Majesty's Mini- table.
vets, if they should think proper to- fakir it 'up, After a few words from .7.1,..1r. SHERMAN,
t.who
though at the same. time Ile was bound to state,. that • thought that' the House ought ,tot to be too critical
if, after a reasimable time, no step should appear to as to the wording of Petitions, ,the Petition. wk. al-.:
have been taken, he should think it his duty to,bri.n.g
~' lowedotie withdrawn, in order that it might be
forward the subjecit by a specific motion. ired to be presented to-morrow in a mote cur-
; prep. ,
The cii4NegLani of Me EXCHEQUER clid i ma tort.F.x.PhiMi'mtv To THE DARDANELLES. . ,
nu, t Mean to give any opposition to the brine' Hon
'
tr.'llta Petition, though alter the statement of,threingourip• 1 Mr ..GRE N V I L LE, in rising pursuant to his no-,
I flee on a fOrmernight; stated tl7at it Was not his in-
: "Align-mu he felt called upon to makieone,or two ,
uoServations. He agreed with the Itightiflou. Gen. tention, at that time; to tht.'plain to the. House, his_
view of the Papers which had.bien ordered relative.
ratan, that when questions of this description arose,
!le ijoper course to take was, to see at first.how to the Expedition to the. Dardanelles.. .li WaS iill`-
t}i., ,xeCtitiVe Government might be Oposed'to iti-
far possible tot now as yet what returns might be Made to'.
the Orders founded ou the motions that had already
I.oticre for the redress of the abuses complained of. been acceded to. Seeing, however, that these mo 7
Corr
appeal to the Government was theret
nrre(it proceeding. art; the most
in the first instance, because it was ,lions did not include' a Paper . which he thought' es-
,cumpetent to ;the sential to a perfed understanding of this subject, the
Ex to direr a thorough in- obie6l of'his motion was to have that Paper produced
!'itigation into the matters complained of; and if to the House. As he understood that:no objedion
iii circurnstatices of 'the. Case should, be such As to
VartAllt t would be made to the produaien Of it, he should not
„tut. the proceeding, to order a criminal pro- . fuillier trespass upen the time of the H 011ie, reservine,-
ti)e '9l opinst the offending- parties. .".I.lis W. 13 to himself, hcreever, the right, it the Papers, •?,tilen
lii,/!, 'Which he had .of the subsea, and the' produced, should nut appeir to bin) sutlicient, to
,ac j.t lionourable Gentleman himself .seertied to
move for any other Papers That inity be necessary.
11)aqt;oesce. in it. •The communication that had. been He therefore moved, f‘ That there be laid before
f0r,,,,e t', Government was conveyed in .a private the House, the Substance tit EXtratts of the Instrec-
and, which could, not, rvilarly ,be acted Upon, tions under which his Majesty's Minister at the Porte
the ' had, in consequence, recommended that .
was ading, at ;Any time snide the commencement of
4 Matter slieuld be .otlicially cettimunicatcd .to the the present ',Var, with respe& to- the Aid to be given
eilec.utire Government ; in which case he..,pledged. to Russia in any discus,tons that 'inight arise 13;1
11011..4.1 that so far as he was individually concerned,
, tweet.) that Power ,and the Porte, ' and especially so
..._ "toe should be lost, nor guy tireans left unit leo, far as relates to the InstrutSliens under which. he
t'huo,oseertain the justice of the complaint... He, had acted after the formation of the ContinentalCon-
ght this a course far preferabli to bringing the , federacy in the Year i 80:)."
tPlea at once before Parliament , because,Avtinever . .
ilk, Secretary •C A ,N{N ir.YG 'was not a Ware 6 f any
I:,osectitions the Executive might find it necessary,
tobj4aion. to the predudiou of this Paper, and agreed
_l' order, upon an investigation of the mutter, must with the 132ight Hortoorablu 'Gentleman that the
one before the Grand Jury, who would of course .
I House .ought to b. in possession of it, in order to be
:11ht to the consideration of the . charge with less .i enabled to .torte a clear view of the'subjeCt.
,:i44l(x' upon their minds. After hehad recommend.-
114,.118 modeolprweeding,. and upon the,grounds he • The Motiow was then agreed to.
stated, the Petitioners, whether tiorn atust or an sift tiCML POV HAM.
))24,1ut

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43 distrust of the Government, had thought pro,
to bring the matter publicly before Parliament,
~4'llbugh the presentment, it appeared, had betin
;14de ax the igiebaehnas Se„tiSjOill, it was , not till
)",.,`1(-1' the 'commencement of the. present Sei.
441 of VarWroeut that the matter had been
coruinitiiicated to Government. An inquiry tOo
:10 been Made by the M.igiitrates, which, though
c
Slloll not say whether the result of that inquiry
Iva.; riAukt or wrong, bet.11)0(1, tvom the silence of the
Parties, a _satistactory answer to the complaint, and
therefore no farther steps had been taken till the
present time. It had even been interred, from their
aolhaving made the -official cetninunication recom-
! 111eutled, that the Gentleiuen themselves, Who pre•
,rea
the'cOmpiaint, were satisfied with the result
1s iiaptiry. He was sure the flight lion. Gen-.
11
would concur with him, that it would have
,' better to have left the business, in the firm in-
t's}t,;-,"e„°) to the Executive Government ; but now that
- ',.etition had been brought 'forward, he had no
V,Ction to its lying on the44ble•
1, 11, BIIEfiIDAN observed, that 'the Petitioners
hot shown any unfair distrust of Government,
rentembering as they did that no eflictent measures
tfredreßs hatrbeen adopted, founded on the Report
800, and because there could be no efficient
tedress without the dismissal of As to an
tfriej.ll communication, it was impossible t4)r• the
letitieners to make. it; -because the Grand Airy hat
it dissolved previous to the CQlllllll,llllCatiOlj.
:1%-aS private inclividuals•that they appeared. as Pe-
Lauers before Parliament, and not in any aggre-
e capacity.
The CII,III'CELLOV of the EXCIII2QqER
that the only communication made to Go-
Was of a private nature, 'and consequently
t a sufficient ground for, a public proceeding. 43
It Report of 1800, be had only to observV; that
~,uad been laid on the Table of the Hotis.k.-!, and
Li-light have been made the fothidatioit of Parltatuen-
ty measures by any Hen- ,NietUbei‘ WI") might have
'itought such a CoUrse.necessary.
stated The Petition was then brought up and read. it,
1,„..i. in substance, that nine of the PetitiOilers,
ils"Tg •menibel s' of the Grand Jury
tiauf .visited tht,.,,tiotle of irt-Cold•Bath-
all °,ll Tuesday, November 3 ; had discovered that.
and ‘utu.")aves'whieli ounin to contain sixteen, ounces.?
gleao-ye'de cit° tilitributed to' the Prkohers, were
welLyt;t, ;le'4,e4-11( Its quantity, aod that •the P 1 .oll`with. the
found tleticent when compateL
"lauu:lrd 'weight of Guildhall. the Pett
1411'1117" c°ntaittecl a Copy of I 4.1 ter front Mr. She-hati le • Maillwa ring, big. stating,t hat he•
tse,i •"" uessed the examination of the pound weight
at co' 13atii-liods House of Correaion, which
caf -tier,"oseiglitlts of an ounce too light..; that several,
theft[ "ere also deficient, and one or two of
to "11. were from an ()Mice mld.itti half to two ounces
tel?i'lht PetiliOn contained another.Let-
coinranl the Grand J orots,, complaining of the
.ac-
fill;-,llll°`tat lens afforded to several of the pillions con-
' 46t;,r''' in that prison, and stating; that a female pri••
l'ad been debauched by the son of the Jailor;
i 9 (t utought forth .a which was chargeable
11)1e, Pa•riol- As such proceedings were calculated ,
6v rmg odium on his Majesty's 'Government and
fore txeelleet Constitution, the Petitioners therss,
an PraYetl such relief as that Hon. House should
its wisdom deem meet.
clo ' Si--Hdp.N .d then -Moved; that the Petition
le
i., oil the table; at- Inc Sae time Stating, that
4iff
mere faits had since come to the k;iowledge
tl,.tt occ howcter, he should on
abstai asion n from {retailing to the Hotaae..-,
A short c . , • • '
ontersation then tow: p af, to ibex
V"PrietY Of 'lllO • v 11 P• .1
the la-
. -et It fu .• •
bt itil a descriptiZu the Pc"tiu"ers'
ifmt
W"
Ogle OM 1)y, the fa4-t.
.
I I.- 1141.1 *W. SO Nll,lEit Unit:l,o4k the exception, on tots

Mr. DeNT, is he understood that no objeaion
wits 6) be Made to the Motion of which he had given
notice, did not think it necessary to- trouble the
I louse with' . any preliminary observations. Hd;
should theteibie barely submit his several Mo-
tions to the House, in the Mewing order, fbr a
1../0 P Y of the Memorial, presented to his-Majesty by :
Su- Home :Popham in the year I 803,praying the re-
stitution of his property in the Iltruseo ; a copy of
the warrant granted by his Majesty in COntiqUellee
of that Memorial ; a copy of the fetter of Sir Philip
Stephens, dated the 28th of Mulch, 171i7, granting
leave of absence to Sir Home Popham, on his resigW.
ing his half-pay ;. copies of the 92d, 93d, and 94th
paragraphs of the dispatch of tbe Governor-General
it) Council, dated the 26 th of November, 1791, and
receivedat the India Houseon tie tstlvMay, 2)
On the question being put upon the first motion,
Mr, LONG had no ob !etion to the motions of
the Hon. Gentleman, the House must 1):; aware
how necessary it Ni4:4 that every inforniationshould
be produced upon a Stabjeci infecting the 'personal
tharaEler of tine of its Members, In his opinion,
other Papers would be necessary beside those moved
for by his leriend, and unless the Papers which
An Ben. Gen,leman opposite (Mr. Lushiogton) was
,to,l-nove for ghould supply the dc...ficiency, he should
,g4ie notice of a motion to-morrow, fbr Copies of the
Minutes of Council relative tb the transaction to
Which that Hon. MeMber had adverted on a former
!fight. `•
'Mr. 1.41j§11 N desired to know from the Hun.
Member i(Mr. Dent) what the' documents he hod
moved fair Were 'to prove) or how they could bear
upon the subjea
M. DE,Nr replied, that he had made the mo-
tions at the request of Sirtiome Popham, who was
prevente4l trona- making then in person by -a severe
accident. The' Papers were rentlere.t necessary to
the, Hon. baronet's ju4ification, in consequence ,of
the notice which the Hon, Gentleman had given on
a former niOit'.
LUSIIINGTON wished to set himself right
with Abe House as to this: business. He had 'not
given any hotice'upon the. sithjed until an Honour-
able
Gentleman 'lad, asserted that his former state-
inept was not correct. The Papers he should move
for, weri:. to prove that he was -perfetaly justified in
malting that statement. They would prove that O.\
lourahie Paws had been procured for the Etrusco,
which Papers hid afterwards been used for another
Ship christened the Etrusco, in violation of the law
of the Eirst India Company, and of the lair They,
would shew a previous consciousness, of this viola-
tion of law on the part of the ownerS of the'ship 'and'
cargo. The Honourable Gentleman was proceed
ing iu this course of .observation, when
ThelsPE4Kiiii put it to the Hon. Member, whe-
ther it would bt right for him to persevere it,f a line
of observation that went'to afro& the eharieler of an
Hon. Member Of that House in his absence. .It was:
the constant praaice of Paliament to abstain from
any matter of personal charge agaitiSt a Member,
unless when fie was present in his place, and could'
have the oppoittlnify of defending hirniell.
Mr. LusitmoTtml, acquiesced in the suggestion
from the Chair, and had proceeded to make the ob,
segvations which hid given rise to ir, in order to lay
a ground for his Motions, as he could net know
whether or no they would be acee.ded to. Ile should,
however, under the corre6tion of the Chair, confine •
himself to proposing his 'Motions to the consideration
of the House. The 1-10-. Member then moved a long
string of Motions for Papers, comprehending not only
the Whole'proceedingi ui ,tbe 'Pri7.e and AdMiralty
'1 Courts relative to the ship Etrusco,•l44t also the me.!
morials, documents of claims, and mihntes of the
Treasury, relattye to the restitution .Of the,amohnt,
of Sir Horne Popham's claim, the order of the
Trosury, and amongst them copies of „various, pri-
Vale letters Which' had been written on the subje4-1
of that vespl, •and Sic Home Pupltarn's cot dna end