The Sun.
London, England, 1839-07-23 00:00:00

tive sense of public duty could have induced him to rise
to attempt to prevent the further progress of such a mea-
sure. He should not detain the House with any prelimi-
nary remarks, but should hasten at once to the preamble,
and advert to one or two provisions in the Bill, and then
state what his impressions were of the evils that must re-
sult therefrom. The Poor-law was not at all carried out
in the spirit in which their Lordships passed it—the
Board of Guardians were not fairly chosen, for what were
called priests' lists were sent round, and no person, how-
ever respectable, whose name was not in them had a
chance of being elected.—( llear.) That system prevailed
even in the City of Dublin. In St. Michael's parish, in
that City, a noted agitator, an old clothes' salesman, pre-
vailed ever a most respectable gentleman. The same
principle would actuate the people in the election of the
Town Councils, and he prayed their Lordships to withhold
their assent from a Bill which must make bad worse. The
Bill gave the privilege of a Corporation to every town
having 3,000 inhabitants; the Councillors were to have
the appointment of the Magistrates and Mayor—so
that those who were to administer the law were to be
elected by the priests' lists. What security, then, would
there be for the life and property of the loyal Protestant
inhabitants ? The effect of the Bill would be that the
Death's Head and Cross Bones sign would be dissemi-
nated throughout the country, and it would give
rise to a system of exclusive dealing in every county.
The Bill gave the Corporations power to tax the
inhabitants of the towns at their own pleasure ; for instance,
in Dublin they might elect the greatest agitator in all Ire-
land to the office of Lord Mayor at an enormous salary
_-(A laugh)—.and there was nothing in the Bill to pre-
vent them from appointing as many chaplains as they
pleased, most probably Roman Catholics. It was danger.
ous to give such powers to the people of Ireland, and there-
fore he implored their Lordships, especially that party
with whom he acted, to allow the Bill to go no further, be-
cause it never could be made innocuous in Committee. The
lateness of the session was a sufficient reason for their
Lordships not proceeding iurther with the Bill, and
considering the providential circumstances which
had lately taken place at Birmingham, it was a
warning to their Lordships not to give to Ireland a heavy
blow to Protestantism, and the greatest discouragement
to the Protestant religion. He for one would protest
against the second reading of the Bill, and he felt it his
duty to move that it be read a second time that day three
months.

Lord STUART DE DECIES, being but a new
member of their Lordships' House, would not trespass long
upon their attention. Being placed in a responsible situa-
tion in the county in which he lived, he could assure the
House that very considerable excitement prevailed in Ire-
land during the three years in which the subject of Corpo-
rations had been under discussion. A great cry had been
got up for Repeal, but be and his friends had said,
" Wait and see what a new Parliament will do for you ;"
and they were not disappointed, for the resolutions of both
Houses, in consequence of the motion for Repeal, set all
hearts at rest. How bad those expectations been answered ?
Had they been placed upon a footing, with respect to the
franchise and other privileges, with England and Scotland ?
Was it shown in the Bill then before their Lordships ?
Let them look at the triple rejection of a measure upon
which the people of Ireland had set their hearts, and then
let them ask whether they had not given a strong argu-
ment into the hands of the advocates of Repeal. Because
that cry had been silent for a short period, did their Lord-
ships suppose that it would not be again shortly raised, and
with redoubled vehemence? He would recommend, there-
fore, to Noble Lords to withdraw their opposition to the
measure on the grounds of expediency and justice. He
would recommend them to do so, if they wished to preserve
that country from difficulties and embarrassment. Let
them no longer haggle with the Irish people in a spirit of
political usury upon the great question of the grant of
Municipal Corporations. The Noble Earl grounded his
opposition to the measure upon principle—he regretted
that such was the case, and that he had not taken objec-
tion to some of the details of the measure. Under even
the eight-pound franchise which the Bill conferred, scarcely
a third of the male population of even the large towns
would be included in it. The Noble Earl, as he under-
stood, objected to the Bill as being prejudicial to the in-
terests of the Established Church.

Lord RODEN—Oh, no, I am for the abolition of all
Corporations.
Lord STUART DE DECIE S understood the Noble
Earl to say, that the Roman Catholic Clergy would ob-
tain a great influence in the election of corporate officers,
and that such a controul would be most prejudicial to the
interests of the Establishment. If they continued to re-
ject, year after year, the measures brought forward for
the Reform of Municipal Corporations in Ireland, they
would drive the people to one of two alternatives—either
the repeal of the Union, or the destruction of the Esta-
blished Church. Such would be the result of their conti-
nuing to array themselves against the wishes and feelings
of the people of Ireland. In the absence of any weightier
argument than he had heard from the Noble Earl, he
trusted their Lordships would concede the principle of the
measure, as well as its details largely and liberally, and
thereby entitle themselves to the thanks of the people of
Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) . . .

Lord LURGAN was surprised at the proposition which
had just been made by the Noble Earl. He could not be-
lieve that Noble Earl would have been the man among
their Lordships to propose a motion having for its object
to throw out a Bill to reform these institutions, VS hose name
was synonimous with all that was most corrupt and profli-
gate.—(
Hear, hear.) They were a mischief to society as
they at present existed, in their principle and proceeding
—in their constitution and practice—and such was the ge-
neral opinion of these institutions that the Commissioners
were directed to use dispatch in their inquiry in order that
there might be legislation on the measure in the course of
the ensuing Session. The Noble Earl now argued for the
abolition of these corporations, hut he had never taken any
step to effect that object.--( Hear, hear.) A case had
been made out against them as strong and irresistible as
possible. One o the most serious evils of these institu-
tions was their complete irresponsibility. It appeared that
ninety-nine of these corporations had exercised corporate
functions during the last century. Since then many
of them had become defunct, and in others the
amount of corporate property was so small that they
might be almost said to have become extinct. There were
59 now existing, and of these 23 recognised the principle
of a commonalty and fremen. With reward to the other
36, there was no such thing as a class of freemen, and the
affairs of the Corporation were niaiaaged by an irrespon-
sible body of about 12. He asked their Lordships could
that be called a right state of things? or was that a state
of municipal institutions in Ireland which their Lordships
ought to be called upon to uphold?

. .
Lord RODEN—No, certainly not: nobody would wish
to uphold it.—( Loud cries of " Hear, hear l")
Lord LURG AN—The Noble Earl now said that he
would not uphold such sinks of corruption.—( Cheers. )
He did not shrink from the term—they had been
adjudged the grossest sinks of corruption, and their Lord-
ships would be guilty of a &diction of duty if they did
not take measures to reform them. —( Cheers.) Had the No-
ble Earl who now declaimed against them taken any steps
for that purpose ?
Lord RODEN—I voted against them. ,
Lord L URG AN— That would not do. They were too
deeply rooted in the soil of the country and in its social sys-
tem to be easily eradicated. The Noble Earl well knew that
something more than a mere vote was necessary. In con-
sequence of the irresponsibility and self election of these
bodies, there had been malversation and squan-
dering of the public property in many instances.
(Hear, hear, hear.) It appeared from the
Report that a very considerable amount of property found
its way out of the control and management of the corporate
body into other hands. Surely that was a most serious
state of things—( Hear, hear)—and there could be no de-
viation from the line which it was their duty to pursue in such
circumstances. If they looked at the parties who were
renters of the corporate property they would find, in fact,
that many of these men were themselves the grantees or
lessees of valuable leases which had been let out to them,
thus standing at the same time in the position of lessors
and lessees. This was the history of these corporations.
It wes a true picture, there was nothing exaggerated in it.
But this was not all—" the very head and front of the
offending" in his opinion was this, that they were exclusive
bodies—( Hear, hear)—and shut out from corporate rights
and privileges, upon sectarian grounds, the great mass of the
population of Ireland. He was sure their Lordships would
agree with him that such a state of things was intolerable.
As long ago as 1793, a Bill had been passed repealing the
Statute excluding Roman Catholics from the Corporations
of Ireland, and up to this day Catholics had been practi-
cally excluded, and derived no advantage whatever from
this Statute of 1793. In some placesthey had here and there
been admitted as freemen, but nut as members of the go-
verning body, except in some very few cases, where a Ro-
man Catholic, at the instance of some influential person,
had been admitted as a matter of favour, and as a compli-
ment to the person making the application. They were
not admitted as a matter of right, but of favour. Could
His iTli.NsirteA
this be called a system of national policy ? And yet by this
odious and intolerable rule of exclusiveness, the Roman
Catholics, who were on a perfect equality as far as civil
worth was concerned, were kept out, or were only ad.
mitted out of compliment, or as a favour. He would say
that such a favour was offensive, and such a compliment in-
sulting. He would ask if some such Bill as the present were
not agreed to, how could local Government go on in Ire-
land ? At presea if a town wanted a supply of water, or if
a harbour stood in need of improvement, having no local
government, they were obliged to apply for an Act of
Parliament, and to have local commissioners appointed for
the purpose at considerable expense and inconvenience.
Let them look at the Corporations as it was admitted on all
sides of the House they existed at present; let themofctohn-s
con-
sider that they had had evidence of the existence of istate of things five years ago, and that no
osetesp. steps
hi-
thertoCaodnsi-
been taken to remedy these grie!_aonose
would
dering that the measure now before the 1-1
re-
medy this, he should,
second reading of the
given a vote in his life, vote for the )
with as great pleasure as ever he had
-;eCi idhetudeffr hn' thought
misunderstoodt he Noblethe Lordspeech
IriTshhoCDoropkooraotfioNnv
ERLefLorinNEG
Noble Friendot haddosi
desire
eot
theirde-
their extinction on
who had just sat down had entirel
existence or continuance, but e
ofefnid'eiad NthoebllerishFrCieonrdPorations.
the ground of their exclusiveness. Noble and Learned
withtheirapprovalLordships'of forwardmetbad
which which
Parliament. It appeared the fixed opinion of the other
House that certain Corporations ought to exist in Ireland,
passed
founded on the principle of election. He was firmly of
opinion that the best mode of governing Ireland was by
abolishing all the Corporations--(Cheers)—and he enter-
tained that opinion still, but he had given up his opinion in
deference to the opinion so strongly expressed by the other
House of Parliament, and by a considerable number of
their Lordships, as soon as he had a prospect of being
able to form in each of these towns a constituency which
could not previously have been formed, according to some
system of rating or on any principle whatever, except the
perjury of those who claim to have a voice in the corpora-
, tion as burgesses, and of those whom they might produce
to support their claims. He confessed that he had lived
' quite long enough to have an extreme dislike to revolt'-
. tions ; he did not like to take power from one class of men