The Sun.
London, England, 1837-12-09 00:00:00

tr
eed those Acts with your eyes open, and why should the
H,,, ul,O of Commons now be called upon, at the suggestion ofth
m Member for Colchester, to go into the most fruitless,
e most painful, and, I will say, into the most disgusting in-
VP',.,
• —(Cheers from both sides.) Now, if that inquiry,
2.11 the Hon. Baronet, would have been painful in 1834,
shall
it not be equally so now ? If it were disgusting then,
Tlie
l"
we be betray ea into it now ?—( Continued cheers.)
„ Hon. Baronet then continued to reed the extract :
G!, do not quite understand that cheer from Honourable
itlemen opposite. Undoubtedly, such an inquiry must
necessarily be painful and disgusting to the good feeling of
ai
mankind."—(Cheering from the Opposition.) After
this declaration, I ask, would not the parties whose cases
are thus spoken of have a right to calculate, whoever might
propose such an inquire, that the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer, at least, ulci not be found to sanction
Position cheers.) If one of !hem were told that such an in-
(tire, were threatened he would say, " I have looked at the
speech of Lord Althcrp and to that of the Secretary for the
!reasury, who is now the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
and I find that both of them have declared themselves
,a.gninst such a proceeding, which the latter has even cha-
racterised as fruitless and disgusting, and, looking at these
71elarations, I have a perfect security, as perfect a secu-
,!Y as can be grounded upon the characters and plecle;es
t' Public men—( Opposition cheers)—that the family set-
tlements and pecuniary arrangements into which I have
.euntered, depending upon these payments, will not be dis-
lot.rdeed."....4 Loud cheers.) Suose the case of a military
provision
of limited means, and looking round to see what
Knvision he can make for those dependent upon him for sup-
Port
His attorney says, " This pension is only given for the
'e of the Crown, and, therefore, it is not such a security as
1_ good for a settlement, or for the advance of money." , To
4,
tills the military officer replies : " I have pet feet confidence
at My pension is safe; the declarations of public men on
7th7 sides unite to assure it to me ; then read the speech of
Althorp, and then read that of the Gallant Secretary of
in° Treasury, who succeeded him in the Exchequer, and I am
sure I am safe in their hands." The Right Honourable Baro-
net then continued the perusal of the extracts he held in his
handN : Let me suppose the case of a meritorious military
13incer—(Opposition cheers ;)—suppose such officer to have
received a pension for years; is this Hottest disposed to call
upon him either to forfeit the grants to which he has now a
legal right, or to come before a Committee to recite his ser-
!.lees, proclaim his own merits, to make cut a case, and substan-
tiate his claim to what his Sovereign has granted ? Why,
,?Ir, I say this is a species of inquiry which must necessarily,
r painful to every well-regulated mind."—(Renewed cheer-
Th,g• " I have read the speech of the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer," this meritorious military officer would say, " and I
Stu told by him that I shall lict have to wait in the lobby of
the House, to ask for Committee-room No. 13, and there
recite my merits and my services in order to entitle me to
the reward which my Soueriegn has awarded me." Lord
Althorp is not here now, hut the Right Honourable
entleman was in office with the Noble Lord, and acted
in accordance with him, and in that Right Honourable
Gentleman, therefore, the pledge is still sacred. Mr. Rice
said further on that occasion—" I should like to know what it
IS. that Hon. Gentlemen propose to themselves if they go into
Committee. I only beg to state to the House, as among my
°ejections to this inquiry—l only ask them, as practical men,
What they expect to extract from it, unless, indeed (this was
addressed to the Hon. Member for Southwark)—( Hear,
near)—unless indeed they proceed upon motives which I will
hot attribute to any Hon. Member—motives of undue curiosity,
and a desire to investigate the private circumstances of indi-
viduals? But we are told by Hon. Gentlemen opposite, that
they seek to trace the origin of these grants. Now, the Hon.
Member for Bath stated that most of those who were the re-
sponsible advisers of these grants are no more—their evidence
and their responsibility arc therefore alike excluded. Are we,
then, to call all the parties who are themselves in the receipt
of these pensions before us, and the responsible Ministers who
advised them not being in office or in existence—are we to go
into an examination of the private case of each of these
Parties? If so, what is to be the course of your inquiry,
and how are you to conduct it ? I cannot imagine an inquiry
that could by possibility be of so disagreeable a character ;
I cannot imagine an inquiry so painful not only to the feel-
ings of those who arc the subjects of it, but to those who
nave to conduct it. I only ask the gentleman, whoever he
may be, who is a candidate for the honour of the future chair
of this Committee, whether he anticipates any very useful or
aerceeble duty ?"—( Loud cheering from the Opposition.)
ilnys, if the House felt in 1834, according to the Report of
Lord Althorp, which was adopted by Parliament, that con-
siderations of justice and propriety would prevent the adopt-
mg of such an inquiry, or that. if such an inquiry were desi-
rable at all, it should be made by the Crown and not by Par-
liament—if the House concurred with the Right Hon. the
Chancellor of the Exchequer that such an inquiry would be
fruitless and painful, that they found even it might prove dis-
gusting, • is it not better, I ask, again to refuse to violate what
You feel to be, what your conscience tells you are, the dictates
of justice and propriety ?—( Opposition cheers.) Remember
that if even the Ministers were alive under whom these pen-
sions were granted, it would be unjust to apply the principles
of the present day upon this subject as a test of their principles.
In those days it was not so strictly and universally understood
as at the present day that pensions were only to he granted as
the reward for signal and definite public services; although
t the same time it was then admitted, that they should not
be made use of for mere purposes of corruption and abuse.
If they had been so male use of, the Minister would have
Been to blame. But how is that now to be ascertained ?
t should be remembered that in those days, in cases
of
,exalted rank or character, where the parties had not the
rta
in soin: of supporting the legitimate decorum of their station
etY, it was not considered a misapplication of the minis-
terial trust to afford such persons a contribution in aid of their
BuPPort. Bear in mind, also, that it was then considered no
Impropriety on the part of a Minister of the Crown to give a
moderate allowance to those who had acted faithfully as their
Secretary. Review the laborious lives of men so employed
in high stations in the Government of the country, and do
not seek to deprive any confidential and faithful secretary they
May have had of this small return for his services, although
not of a nature to be at this later period strictly investigated
and estimated at their value. Look back upon the history of
this country, from 1804 to 1830, a period of twenty-six years,
and you will fled that time and death have swept away all
the Ministers who successively presided over the destinies of
this country during that eventful period. Call to mind the
fate of Castlereagh, of Canning, of Liverpool, whose deaths
Were hastened by their devotedness to the service of their
country. I shall never forget the words addressed to myself by
Lord Liverpool but a few days before that fatal blow which
ended in his decease, when I remarked to him with satisfac-
tion that I thought him looking better than I bad seen him
for some time previously. " Ah," was Lord Liverpool's re-
"no man knows what it is to have been the Prime Mi-
nister of England for seventeen years, and never during that
Period to have received his letters by the post in the morning,
without a feeling of anxiety and epprehension."—( Cheers. )
They are in the grave I These pensions were granted by
their advice. They arc unable to give an account of them, or
of the grounds upon which they were given. Do you think it
just now to brand their memories with a stigma, because the
Only evidence upon their conduct and their motives is beyond
our reach ?—( General cheering.) William IV. is de-
scended into the tomb of his ancestors ; he has been suc-
ceeded by a Sovereign in the bloom of youth and promise.—
. ( Cheering.) Recollect that all these pensions were granted
by her grandfather, and were confirmed by her two uncles,
all in return for signal public achievements, or as testimonies
for private worth and services, which the Sovereign thought
Worthy of reward, but the particulars of which we can
hardly after this lapse of time pretend to appreciate
in detail. You thought it would be hard to advise
William IV. not to confirm these grants of his pre-
decessors on the Throne. Remember that your youthful
Sovereign is now the fountain of justice, of privilege, and
favour.—( Cheers. ) You have offered your respectful assu-
rance to her Majesty that you will afford ample provision for
the comfort and dignity of her station ; and do not let the
thankfulness and kindly feeling with which that assurance has
been received by our Gracious Queen be embittered by the
reflection that she, of all British Sovereigns, is the first who
Is to be subjected to the hardship of departing from uniform
Preceding usage, and of rudely breaking up all those family
settlements and pecuniary arrangements which have been made
in firm reliance on an adherence to invariable custom—a reli-
ance which has since been converted into certainty by your
nwri acts and declarations.—( Loud cheering from the Opposi-
ti°ll. ) The Hon. Baronet concluded by moving the following
resolutions as an amendment
" That upon the occasion of the accession of his late Majesty
'king William the Fourth, a Select Committee was appointed
in 1831, on the motion of Lord Althorp, then Chancellor of
the Exchequer, to take into consideration the accounts pre-
sented by order of his Majesty relating to the Civil List.
" That the Committee so appointed took into consideration
together with other classes of the Civil List, that of the pen-
sions, and after stating that they felt it to be their duty to ex-
Plain to the House fully the caee in respect to Pensions, made
to their report the following, among other observations
At the same time it would be a harsh measure to overlook on
the present occasion that which has been the uniform usage on
all former settlements of the Civil List. Pensions on the
I'4ll List have always hitherto been considered to be granted
or life, and in fact no instance has occurred wherein a Pension
eta the Civil List granted by one Sovereign has been disconti-
tiled on the accession of his successor. It is more than pro-
therefore, that parties relying on an adherence to an
invariable custom, have made family settlements and peen-
, I,larY arrangements of various kinds, with all of which
s Majesty must necessarily interfere, should the continu-
alll", of these Pensions, for the first time, on his accession
to t" the Throne be refused. Adverting to all the circum-
- tlhances of the case considering that no material reef to
ti 'finances of the country could be derived from theli st most
Measures of retrenchment applied to the Pension List ;
that many cases severe distress, in some actual injustice,
0.4 arise to ineividuals from the general discontinuance
Pensions ; that such discontinuance on the occasion of his
siesty's accession would be a departure from an usage inva-
ir,ablY observed on the accession of his Majesty's predecessors,
ti-3111. Committee do not think it advisable to withdraw from
the Crown wn those funds which may. enable the Crown, if it shall
le
fir, to continue the pensions on the Civil List of his
she Majesty. These observations, however, do not apply.to
a .grant of future pensions on the Civil List ; if granted with
4... distinct notice to the individuals receiving them that they are
nto legally terminable on the demise of the Sovereign by
eaviu they have been granted, but that they are liable to be
tbarti or discontinued on the settlement of a new Civil List,
of can be no obstacle to the re-consideration at that time
e then existing Pension List.'
%ion e Committee proceeded to recommend that the Pen-
kii2eists of England, Scotland, and Ireland should be con-
''lted into one alphabetical list ; that pensions to the