The Sun.
London, England, 1837-04-06 00:00:00

HA ND-LOOM WEAVERS.

Mr. MAXWELL gave notice that he should, on Tues-
day the 18th of April, make a motion relative to the pub;
lication of the wages of hand-loom weavers.
Mr. G IL LON presented a petition from Whitby, praying
that some remedy might be adopted which would prevent
the creation of fictitious votes.
Referred to the Committee.
POOR LAWS.

Mr. MANGLES presented a petition from Guildford,
praying that there mien be no alteration made in regard
to the Poor Law Amendment Act.—Referred to the Com-
mittee.

Mr. FLEETWOOD presented a petition from Preston
which was of importance from the number of signatures
which were attached to it.--(Hear, hear.) The Union
of Preston contained about fifty thousand inhabitants.
The Petition was signed by nearly '20,000, and the prayer
of it was deserving of consideration, as it was worded re-
spectfully, and with a view to the furtherance of the measure
so far as was consistent with the law of the land ; but they
complained that the extension of the law to these districts
at present is uncalled for. It might have been desirable
that it should be extended to the agricultural districts in the
South, but it was not wanted in the manufacturing districts of
the North. The petitioners also complained of the regulations
and orders of the Commissioners, and prayed that this
House would take into its consideration both the law itself
and the regulations referred to.--(Hear.) He would say
that to press forward the law in these districts would be
the cause of turbulence and confusion ; besides this,
the friends of the measure would derive more be-
nefit for it by withholding it, as it was viewed
there with so much dislike. He trusted, therefore, that it
would not be passed into operation there, unless the inhabit-
ants petitioned for it.—Petition referred to the Committee.
Captain BOLDERO presented a petition against the
system of medical assistance afforded under the new Poor-
law Act.
An HON. MEMBER presented a petition from the Union
of Hertford, praying that the services of Assistant Com-
missioners should be dispensed with as to the formation
of unions, as it would be productive of a saving of expense,

CHURCH RATES.
Mr. BARNARD presented a petition from the Dis-
senters of Church-street, Deptford, in favour of the total
abolition of Church Rates.
Mr. Goulburn, Sir James Graham, Mr. Lowther, Cap-

tain Alsager, and Sir George Sinclair presented petitions in

favour of Church-rates.
Mr. WILKS presented several petitions in favour of
the total abolition of Church-rates.
Mr. GROTE presented a petition from the Church-
wardens, Overseers, and other inhabitants of the pa-
rish of St. Mary-le-Bow, praying for an equaliza-
tion of the land-tax. Also one from the chairman of a
numerous meeting of operatives, held at Glasgow, pray-
ing for the Vote by Ballot, and a repeal of the Septen.

nial Act.
Mr. WALTER presented a petition, signed by 2,000
inhabitants of the county of Glamorgan, against the Poor

Law Amendmeut Act.

The Judges' Opinion Bill went through a Committee,
without any amendment, on the motion of the SOLICITOR-
GENERAL.
BANKRURPTS' ESTATE (SCOTLAND) BILL.
On the motion of the LORD-ADVOCATE, the Bank-
rupts' Estate (Scotland) Bill was read a second time, and
ordered to be committed.
After a few words from Sir GEORGE SINCL AIR, on
the motion of the same Learned Lord, the Bankruptcy
(Scotland) Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be
committed, as was also the Sheriffs' Courts (Scotland) Bill.
On the motion of Mr. TOOKE, the Sheriffs' Fees Bill
was read a second time, and ordered to be committed.
ATTORNEYS AND SOLICITORS BILL.
On the motion of Mr. TOOKE, the Attorneys' and
Solicitors' Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be
committed this day week.
RECOVERY OF TENEMENTS' BILL.

Mr. AGLIONBY, in moving the second reading of
this Bill, said that, for the sake of tenants themselves, it
was absolutely necessary there should be a summary
mode of recovering possession of tenements. He
regretted the Attorney-General had not thought pro-
per to take upon himself the management of a Bill of this
nature, because he was convinced the law as it now stood
required some alteration. The present Bill did not alter
the law of landlord and tenant, because it only applied to
cases where a system of swindling had been carried on, by
persons who obtained possession of tenements in false charac-
ters. The principle of his Bill was that which had been recom-
mended by the Commissioners, who Lad investigated nar-
rowly the common law which made the distinction ; and he
would not occupy the House longer than in stating that he
did not believe that by this Bill the situation of
the tenants would be rendered worse than at pre-
sent, but rather better by its provisions, as it would enable
their landlords to afford them more indulgence, as they
would not run the same risk of being defrauded by
violence or bad faith.—( Hear, hear, hear.) There
would be quite a sufficient time given before
they went into Committee to offer any suggestions for the
improvement of its provisions, and he would be glad to
adopt any which he considered would be beneficial. The
Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be com-
mitted this day fortnight.
SALE OF BEER BILL.

Mr. A. TREVOR said, that in rising to move the se-
cond reading of this measure, he would merely state that
La would be ready to avail himself of any suggestions
which might be offered previous to going into Committee ;
but knowing- well the evils of the present law, he considered
himself justified in now moving that the Bill be read a se-
cond time.
Mr. ROEBUCK said, that in objecting to this mea-
sure, the shortest way would be to read over those parts
of it to which he was opposed. In the first place,
it was provided that no license should be given to any beer-
house, unless the parson of the parish gave his certificate that
there ought to be such a house established where it was
sought to have it. Now lie (Mr. R.) wanted to
know, if there ever had been such a proceeding
as that which would compel a clergyman of the Church of
England to tell where beer and eider should he sold, and
he would enquire if it was the peculiar privilege of their
holy office to tell where travellers could obtain good
beer?—(Hear, hear.) He would ask if the House
was likely to pass a Bill which would render the clergymen
inspectors-general of beer-shops ; for it was now sought
to erect them into a new set of functionaries,
who would not have this spiritual requisites of the parish-
ioners in view, but who would be made to tell at what par-
ticuler place travellers would get good beer. But it was not
only the parsons who were to be put into requisition by
this measure, but the constables also, so that he supposed
the system would be under the regulation of the
Per:sh Constable and Company.—( Hear.) But mark
the difference which was to exist between these fune-
sionaries ! The parson was not to be punished, although
the constable was, if he did not undertake the office assigned
to him ; but this he (Mr. R.) supposed was provided be-
cause the Hon. Gentleman was the Member for Durham.
But that was not all. It further provided that any con-
stable neglecting to inspect a licensed beer-house was liable
to fine and imprisonment.
Mr. A. TREVOR—State upon what conditions ?
Mr. ROEBUCK—The Hon. Gentleman should him-
self have explained what the provisions of the Bill were,
instead of leaving that duty to others. There was another
extraordinary provision which was that the Bill should'extend
to England and Wales, except cities and boroughs. What was
the meaning of that ? Why, that country gentlemen did
not line beer-houses. The lion. Gentleman knew the Bill'
would not be tolerated in these places—he dared not bring
it into operation in cities and towns, but confined it to
those places where the poor might he trampled upon
with imnun'ty. It was further provided, that no licence
should his granted for any house situated further than 500
yards from a turnpike road. The object was to prevent the
poor labourers recreating themselves in by-roads and lanes,
where they were in the habit of playing quoits anel cricket
—to thrust them out upon the high-road—and, finally, to
deprive the poor man, crossing the coentry, and who could
not afford to ride in a post-chaise or on horseback, of the
opportunity of slaking his thirst with a drink of beer. He
could not help exelhiming against such a measure, when he
found Hon. Gentlemen opposite, who were up in arms in
defence of the rights of the poor, under pretence of taking
care of their morals, attempting to foist such a Bill upon
the House. Nothing wag, in his opinion, so pecu-
liarly contemptible as the pretence set up of taking
care of the morals of the poor by Act of Parliament. It
was not to be done in that form ; but if the Hon. Gentle-
men had the morals of the population at heart, why not enter
at once into a crusade against the Gin Palaces ? Let him
try, and he (Mr. R.) would be hound that he would find
Hon. Gentlemen in that House, who were connected in
the distilleries, standing up in their defence, and de-
tailing the injury it would inflict on country gentlemen,
in the reduced consumption of malt, barley, oats, and rye.
Anything they would countenance but an attack upon
themselves, and under pretence of taking care of the morals
of the poor they were grinding them down in every possible
way. For these reasons he should move that the Bill be
read this day six months.
Sir R. FERGUSSON would say only a very few words
upon this Bill, as he perfectly agreed in every word which
had fallen from the Right Hon. Gentleman who spoke last,
and intended to vote along with him. There were already
many grievances under which the sellers of beer
laboured. By Act of Parliament they were obliged
to shut up their places of business at much earlier
hours than the licenced victuallers, while in many
places they were equally respectable. He knew of six or
seven beer-sellers in Nottingham who brewed their own
beer, and who resided in much higher rated houses than
many of the licensed victuallers.
Mr. A. TREVOR would not detain the House for
many minutes in reply to the Honourable and Learned
Member for Bath. He could not do so if he were
willing, because he was not possessed of sufficient
talent to reply to the sarcastic speech of the Hon. Gentle-
man. He, however, would reply to a few of the charges
thrown out against him by the Hon. Gentleman. First,
then, the clergyman's interference was to extend merely to
the granting of a certificate as to previous character.
He was then taunted with not interfering with the towns.
He had an easy answer to that—he had confined himself
to the country parishes, because it was there the evil had
been felt. Every county Magistrate in the country would
say that the evils were so great that there was an absolute
necessity for something being done. He was taunted also
for not interfering with gin palaces. He considered them
the receptacles for every species of vice—(Hear, hear)
—but if he were to interfere with them at all, he
would be told by the Hon. Member, or some of his
friends, that he was interfering with the amusements of
the people.—(Hear, hear.) The next charge was that
he was favouring country gentlemen, by obliging all
beer shops to be within a certain distance of the high road.
The reason was, as country gentlemen knew, that many of
those beer shops were on the borders of forests, and it was
notorious that they were the haunts of poachers, sheep-
stealers, and persons guilty of every other species of
crime.—( Hear, hear.) From the temper of the House
he had no doubt the Bill would be rejected ; but that
did not damp him—he would continue to turn his atten-
tion to the subject until the evils were remedied.
He could not but protest against the unfair conclusion which
the Honourable Member for Bath had come to with
respect to the Clergy of the Established Church. The
Honourable Member had asked why the parish constable
and not the clergyman had been subject to punishment ?
He should like to know what person in a country parish
was more capable of judging of the good conduct
of the parishioners than the clergyman ? In his
opinion,
if the clergyman discharged his duty, he ought to
be the referee. He wished, before another Session, if the
present Bill happened to fail, that the Hon. Member
for Bath would make inquiries upon a subject of which
it was evident he was utterly ignorant at the pre-
sent moment. The Honourable Member called himself
the champion of the public : if he were so, he (Mr. Trevor)
thought the better thing for him to do would be to support

the present Bill.—( Here Mr. Roebuck gave a very signi
cant shrug.) He (Mr. Trevor) saw that the Honourable
Member for Bath was horror-struck at the idea.—(Laugh-
ter.) Ile should, however, certainly feel it to be his duty
to take the sense of the House upon this Bill, as he could

not consent to withdraw it, however small the number

might be who voted in its favour.
Mr. 'F. DU NCO MBE thought if the Church had any
reason to complain of any person, it was the Hon. Member
for Durham, and not the Hon. and Learned Member for

Bath. He (Mr. D.) ceuld name a place in the East Riding,
of York, where actually the parsonage house had been let
for the purposes of a beer-shop. He would leave the
House to decide whether that was a proper pur-
pose to appropriate it to or not.—(Laughter.) As to
the clergymen being allowed to give their veto as to
whether a person was to have a licence or not,
some of them might belong to what was called a
Temperance Society, and being impressed with the opinions
of such a Society, might refuse upon the slightest grounds
possible. In his (Mr. D.'s) opinion, a more absurd, ridi-
culous, and arbitrary Bill never was brought before the
attention of the House.
Mr. C. W. W. WYNN hoped his Hon. Friend the
Member for Durham would not press the House to a

Mr. \VILKS would on the contrary advise the Hon.
Member for Durham to go to a division, because he was
persuaded that the opinion of the majority of the
House of Commons would be so distinct as to prevent in
future those who had invested very large property and capital
in beer-houses from being Session after Session annoyed by
experimental notices and measures. He was convinced
the establishment of beer-shops had caused a great im-
provement throughout the country, because ardent spirits
were not so much resorted to. _ .

Mr. TREVOR would adopt the advice of his Right
Hon. Friend below him (Mr. Wynn), and would not
press the Bill to a second reading ; but at the same he must
protest against the motives imputed to him, and equally
protest against the doctrines of the Hon. Member for
Boston.

The amendment was carried without a division, and the
Bill consequently lost.
MILBANK PENITENTIARY BILL.

The House then went into Committee on this Bill.
On the first clause being put,
Mr. FOX M AUL E, in answer to Mr. Hawes,
said that at the present moment an improvement was
being made in the cells of the Penitentiary, and that the
Bill now in Committee provided the reduction to fixed
periods of imprisonment, the punishment of such persons as
had been commuted from transportation to imprisonment.
The clause was then agreed to.
All the other clauses in the Bill were also agreed to ;
and the House resumed.—Report to-morrow.
FACTORIES.

On the Order of the Day for the House going into
Committee of Supply being read,
Lord ASHLEY begged to ask whether it was the in-
tention of his Majesty's Government, in case of the with-
drawal or rejection of his motion for to-morrow evening, to
bring in a Bill for the regulation of the present Factory
System ,
Mr. P. THOMSON had no hesitation in stating that it
was the intention of the Noble Lord who had charge of
that department to introduce a Bill for the regulation of la-
bour in factories. There were some provisions for the better
enforcement of the present law which were required; and he
knew it was the intention of his Noble Friend to submit
a proposition to Parliament on that subject ; but it was
not intended to make any alteration in the part relative
to the ages of children.
Lord ASHLEY, under the circumstances, would with-
draw his motion for to-morrow, and would give notice of
his intention to move that it be an instruction to the Com-
mittee, that in future no female between the ages of 13 and
18 shall labour in any factory more than ten hours a-day,
or 58 a-week, in the United Kingdom.
The question having been put that the Speaker do leave
the Chair,
Col. THOMPSON said he had a notice on the Books
which seemed to be much misunderstood. He had not had an
opportunity of explaining it, and from letters he had received
it appeared that many persons thought he intended to
more for an inquiry into the office of the Commander-in-
Chief. (Hear, hear.) Now he had no such intention,
any more than he had to move for an inquiry into
the office of the Archbishop of Canterbury, if there was
one. All he wanted was that the army should be placed
under the controul of a Minister who was responsible to
that House, so that it might, as it ought to do,
feel a decision of that House by vote.—( Hear, hear.)—
When the Mutiny Act said that the raising and keeping
up an army. in the realm without the consent of
Parliament was against law, did it mean against an Act
of Parliament ?—(Hear, hear.) He believed that it
never entered into the mind of any individual to say so.
He believed that there was a law in this country to which
even statutes made in that and the other House
of Parliament were subservient.—(Hear.) To that
law, therefore, he appealed. lie would ask whether the go-
vernment
of the army had been kept in that tact in which
it had been kept by their ancestors?—(Hear, hear.)
\\T hen a Tory Administration came into power,
was the Duke of Marlborough kept as Commander-in-Chief
one hour longer than that Tory. Administration thought
it necessary ; and when the -Whigs came back again
into office, was not that Noble Duke again placed in that
situation ? In his epinion, there ought to be a Constitu-
tional Administrator of the Army, as there was, if he
might use the expression, of the King's name, and of the
King's Courts. He contended that if they quietly, and
without resistance, gave up that point, it would open the
way to all mal-practices in the regulation of the army.
The army, and er such a system, might be employed against
the very persons who paid it, and the present time was
pregnant with awful signs.—( Hear, hear.) He felt him-
self called upon to make allusion to Spain, and to ask
whether Ministers would haste submitted .to the necessity
of sending out to that country an undisciplined and badly
appointed body of newly-raised men, exposing both them
and the cause which they espoused to imminent danger, at
the same time that a highly disciplined and expensive body
of troops were kept inactive at home, if there was not a
consciousness that this disciplined force was not in reality
at the disposal of the Government—that, in fact, they could
not move a corporal's guard ? The Government had a
controul over the marines, over the navy and artillery, be:
cause they were under other management. For what pur-
pose was an army to be kept up if not to be employed
It was not impossible but the country might be engaged in.
a war, or preparations for a war, with Russia. \Vas there
no person in that country to tell that the government of
the army was not under the controul of the Ministers
of the Crown, or to hint that there might be a direct-
ion-' power with respect to it behind the Throne ? It
had been said on the other side of the House—it had
been expressed as a hope—that the time would never
come when the army should be under the controul of
that House. If this was the expression of a mere per-
sonal feeling, he should say, nothing about it ; but if it
were politically meant to express a hope that the direction of
the army should be in the control of some irresponsible
power, and that gentleman opposite should possess the do-
minion, he must protest against it. At the time of the
Bristol riots the power of Government with respect to the
control of the army had been superseded. If a similar
case, on a larger scale, should present itself in Ireland,
what might be the result ? What the consequences if the
army were directed to act in a way which might not meet
the approval of Government?---(Hear, hear.) Under
these circumstances he would ask the House whether it
would not be desirable to return to the ancient and consti-
tutional practice ? He would, therefore, move that the
government of the army, as now conducted, is against law,
and no man is held in obedience thereto, and that no supply
be granted until a remedy is applied.
Mr. SPEAKER wished to know whether any body se-
conded the motion ? No seconder appearing, the Speaker
left the Chair, and the House went into Committee on the
ARMY ESTIMATES.

Lord Viscount HOW ICK said that, as the amount of
the force proposed to he kept up was precisely the same as
it was in the last and in the preceding years, of course it
followed that there was no material alteration in the main
features of the present estimate, which were precisely the
same as those of last year. He had to observe that the
aggregate charge coincided with that of last year, within
the sum of 10,1751. The total amount required for the
serrice of this year, was less than it was in .the preceding
year. Thus there remained, after deducting an increase
which had taken place in the effective force from a de-
crease of the charge on the non-effective service a sum
of 10,3751.—(Hear.) In the effective service there was,
upon the whole, an increased amount of 27,8751., and in
the non-effective service there was a diminution of charge of
38,000/., leavinc, a balance, or decrease of charge of 60,375/.
The principal heads under which the differences, as com-
pared with former estimates, appeared were these :—ln the
first place there was last year the cost of a regiment for
half a year, which had been detained in India by the Go-
vernment, and the expense of which came as an extra
charge into this year of 13,700/. Another difference arose
from the altered prices of provisions and forage, which were
higher than they were last year, and this rendered it ne-
cessary to add a sum of 13,0001. under this head. The
last and most important head was that which had arisen out
of the operation of the new warrant for giving " good
conduct pay." Every one who knew anything of the state
of the army must be aware that every soldier in the ser-
vice, after the expiration of fourteen years, whether his
conduct might have been good or bad, was entitled to his
pay at the rate of twopence a day. This pension had never
been formed by the principle of good conduct. If a soldier
were disabled, the Commissioners of Chelsea Hospital
pensioned him according to the length of service, unless

his conduct had been stamped as bad by the sentence of a
Court-martial, by which be had incurred dismissal from
the service, or had been committed to a gaol, and had lost
a period of his service during his incarceration. But in all
other cases the very best soldiers were entitled to only the
same amount of pension. In the debate last year on the
Mutiny Act, a very anxious wish was expressed that, in
addition to those means which were provided by the Mutiny
Bill, and in addition to the system of punishments, there
should be added, with a view to obtain discipline with as
little punishment as possible, some greater facilities to the
giving rewards to well-conducted soldiers. He had, there-
fore, in the course of the last summer, in conc.rt with the
Commander-in-Chief, drawn up a warrant, which subse-
quently received the sanction of his Majesty, and carne into
force on the Ist of September last, by which it was provided
that all soldiers after that date should have no claim to MI
increased pay merely on account of length of service—that
that fourteen years' 'service must be independent of good
conduct, or he would not be entitled to claim any increased
pay. But, on the other hand, it was provided that it/ the

case of a man Ivlio served to the end of seven years, anti
who, up to that period, bad not for two years preceding
such claim being made been guilty of any offence, and
had never during that time been punished for any offence,
or had his name entered for misconduct in the regi-
mental defaulters' book, should be permitted to wear an
honorary distinction of a ring of lace round the right arm,
and should be entitled to claim an increase of pay of one
penny per day. At the end of fourteen years' service a
further reward of one penny a day, making twopence Addi-
tional pay, was awarded, with the increased honorary disc
tinction of two rings ; and at the end of twenty-one years
each soldier became entitled to a third mark of distinction,

with threepence additional pay. It was a further part of
the object of this warrant to provide that every soldier
who had received the advantage of addition pay, should,
when pensioned, carry with him part of this advantage.
Thus, if a man should live for five years in the enjoyment
of the increased pay, that increased pay would be added to,
the pension, which, under former warrants, he would not
have enjoyed. If he had served for a shorter period only,
he would have a part of it added to his pension. For in-
stance, if a soldier, after twenty-one years' service, had been
for five years in the possession of good-conduct pay, but had
only been in possession of the higher rate for a period of not
less than two years immediately preceding his discharge, he
would be entitled, if discharged with two rings, to an ad-
ditional pay of three halfpence. This would be a very
great boon to all well-conducted soldiers, and to accomplish
this most desirable object he should have to call upon the
House for a sum of 9,800/. to meet the probable expenses
arising from this warrant ; and he felt the strongest confi-
dence that this vote would meet with the general approba-
tion of the House. He was sure it would be satifae,
tory to the House to hear that there was already a very'
large proportion (he confessed, a larger proportion
than he had anticipated) of the soldiers of the army
whose length of service qualified them to receive these
rewards, and who had established their claim to receive
them by their good conduct. The decrease of charge in
the non-effective service amounted, as he had already
stated, by the falling in of pensions and half-pay, to a sum
of 38,182/., even after allowing for the augmented pay of
officers, in consequence of the late brevet promotion, which
amounted to 8,468/. This was the only statement which
he thought it necessary to trouble the House with, and,
therefore, he would conclude by moving the first item--
namely, that there be granted to his Majesty a sum of
3,101,652/. Is. 10d., to provide for the charges of his Ma-
jesty's land forces at borne and abroad, exclusive of India.
After an observation from Mr. ROBINSON in favour
of the vote,
Mr. HUME (who had at that moment entered) rose,
and said, that as there was so thin an attendance, he
should move that the Chairman should rise and report
progress.
Lord HOWICK said that if the Hon. Member pet'
severed in his determination, it would be very inconvenient
to the public service.
Sir S. WHALLEY thought the scanty attendance of
Members was a proof of the confidence of the House in
his Majesty's Government.
Mr. HUME should persevere, unless it was determined
when the report should be brought up.
Lord HO WICK thought the report might be brought
up to-morrow.
Mr. HUME then consented to withdraw his motion,
but still complained that the estimates should pass in a
House of 15 or 20 Members. He thought the public
money ought not to be voted in a House so thinly attended.
As to the vote before the House, he considered it extrava-
gant, and the Tory Government whom he had badgered
upon the same subject had. been more economical. He
knew this observation was nuts to the Hon. Gentlemen
opposite, but such was the case.—(A laugh.) He (Mr-
Hume) complained of the manner in which the army es-
timates were brought forward by the Government. In plea
of the Chancellor of the Exchequer stating at one time the
whole income and expense of the country for the current
year, the House was called to vote money by piecemeal
for one service and for another. The Hon. Member con-
cluded by moving as an amendment that the sum of
3,101,652/. be reduced by 500,000/., being the equivalent
of 10,000 men, in which should be included a proportion
equal to 3,000 or 4,000 of the household troops and cavalp'.
That suit, added to the reductions in the Commissariat
and Ordnance Department equal to 120,000/. a year more,
would make a sum equivalent to the whole amount 0f the
soap or land tax.
Lord HO WICK said, in reply to the observation of the
Hon. Member, that one cause of the present large amount
of military force was the vast extension of the colonial pos-
sessions of the country. He found, however, that in the old
colonies the increase in the garrisons since 1792 was not
any way material. For instance, in 1792 the amount of
men in garrison and on duty in these colonies was 15,100,
while in 1836 it was no more than 16,687. In the latter
number, however, should be included 1,977 men at pre
sent in New South Wales, a colony which, in 179.2, being,
then, but a new settlement, had only 420. Extent 05
country in that colony, over which the desperate era'
ratters sent out from these kingdoms were scattered, re'
quired, far the absolute safety of the free settlers, a large
amount of military force. Indeed only very recently se'
rious alarm existed there for the want of a sufficient force,
to keep them in awe. He did not, however, say but that
a considerable diminution might be made in the force at
present employed in the colonies in the course of time
for instance, in the West Indies, when the beneficial
effects of the Act of Emancipation of 1833 should Ir"
gin to be felt and appreciated by the white and coloured
population of these possessions. It had been alleged
that the household troops had been considerably increatle°i
since 1792, but that allegation was founded on an error
—that of including the Dragoon Guards, who were sub-
ject to the same regulations as troops of the line, in the
enumeration. He did not, however, mean to deny tat'
gether that an increase in the household troops had taken
place since that period ; but he believed it was no more
than about 429 in the cavalry, and 800 in the infantry. In
1792 the Horse Guards and household troops of all kinds
amounted to 3,200 men ; in 1836 they were 4,176 in nu.°l'
ber. When the enormous augmentation of the population
of the metropolis since the former period was taken in
account, and when it was also considered that the botist.e:
hold troops were the principal protection of the capital, "-
was satisfied that an increase of 1,000 men or thercaboal
would not be deemed an undue proportion. It was s°l,
that the proportion of officers to privates in the household
troops was greater, or at least as great, now as in 1792'
That was not the fact. In 1792 the relative proportion ofot
Itol2 ; in 1836 it was only cers to men was as as to 1"
It was alleged that the force nor" proposed was greater than
in the reduction in 1822. That was not the case : for the
force required at present was only 61,000 men, while the:,
which existed on the reduction of 1822 was 69,044. But
(Lord Howick), notwithstanding all that had been said in
four of the reduction of 1822, was still inclined to believe
anything but a wise or an economical measure. Before
concluded he wished to state a few facts connected with
Lb,
colonial military service. To furnish all the garrisons in es„
occupation of the kingdom, and perform all the duties nee r
sary, there were required 103 battalions. Of that numbs
full 82 were always employed abroad, leaving for home sbeat
vice 21 battalions. The effect of that necessity was tree
regiments brought home after a long service were scenic
allowed to remain four years in this country when it cease
again to their turn to go abroad. He would take
b tta-
in point. In the course of the present year seven. of
lions would be required to go abroad on foreign service 3;3,
these one had only returned in the September ofweisice,
after a service of 20 years in India and New South f ten
while, of the others, two had come from a serviee en
years in India only in 1834. To remedy this evil a•une.
rangement had been made by the War Office, in "Ir.!, of
tion with the Treasury, which would be produce had
bad
much good to the service. He (Lord Howick)ai re-
caused a strict examination to be made of the ineuleiod of
ports of all the regiments on fbeeign service fora Peree ser-
-20 years past ; and he found by them that a prolong
ou_ the
vice anywhere between the tropics fell more severeY_,enre..
troops than service in any other situation. It was lait‘ (rot
sent the rule that regiments should pass ten years _
j." ofee,
in India ; the arrangement proposed by the %
that the y
eerie('
and acceded to by the Treasury, was, tbre-
of a regiment's absence should be divided ani°!:iblig tea
several climates. For instance, instead of los!ula by
whole years in India, regiments in future ivof their
this arrangement, pass the earlier periods °f
thence
absence in the Mediterranean garrisons ; "lend sub-
be transferred to the East or West Inchest,o
sequently to Canada, before they returned rll,r.ce
The whole service would be thus divided between
climates ; and the period to be passed between ttli.e'-etr°Pfille:
would be shortened by about two-thirds of the ; fr'oposed,
Connected with this another arrangement via r

w b
• would have the effect of increasing the comforts and
tro ;mit % the food of the troops employed between the
ug.p
In the West Indies, for instance, it had been the
ter.:
ms. hitherto to allow the soldier fresh provisions only
itco a week—two days in the seven. It was now proposed
that in future he should receive fresh provisions five times
in the week at least ; while, in colonies which were con-
%sidered very unhealthy, in Jamaica, for instance, it was pro-
posed that he should receive them every day. The Noble
Lord concluded by expressing a hope that the House was
satisfied with his explanation, and that it would not concur
with the Hon. Member's amendment.
Mr. WILLIAMS supported the amendment.
Mr. B. HOY was opposed to the amendment.
Mr. RICHARDS expressed himself satisfied with the
statement made by the Noble Lord.
After some further desultory conversation, in which Mr.
B. Hoy, Mr, Richards, General Sharp, and Captain Chet-
wynd took part, the Committee divided, when the numbers

For the original resolution
For the amendment v ll.

Majority
The rv;olution was then agreed to.
4ext resolution was for a sum of 154,196/. for the
elPAen%es of General Officers and the Staff of the army.
'triter a few words from Mr. H tir :CIE, the resolution was
Weed to.

Tl,te next vote proposed was for the public departments
mE the army-56,9171. 4s. 4d.
Mr. HUME asked whether it was the intention of Go-
Vernment to act upon the Report of the Commissioners
appointed to inquire into the civil service of the army ?
Lord HO W ICK said the Session was now too far ad-
Intnced to introduce any measure upon the subject.
Mr. HUME thought that Ministers ought to bring in a
Bill even in the present Session, if it were only for the pur-
pose of showing that they were sincere.
Lord HO WICK said that the Commissioners had
drawn up the plan of reform which they were prepared to
recommend ; but before a Bill could be got ready there
were many details and difficulties to be considered. It was
riot intended that the Report should he left a dead letter.
Ministers were anxious to get on with the public business,
but the portion of time allowed them for the purpose was
very inconsiderable.
Mr. HU ME ssid the charge in this item for the Com-
Tnander-in-Chiers office was enormous. There could be no
hope of a better administration of this department unless
the present Commander-in-Chief was turned out of office,
and some person placed in his situation who would act upon
the principles of the present Liberal Government.
Lord HOWICK could assure the Hon. Gentleman that
if Government saw any want of co-operation on the part of
the Commander-in-Chief they would feel it their duty to
"commend to his Majesty to substitute another officer in
his room.
Mr. C. FERGUSSON did not know upon what ground
the Hon. Member was always bringing such charges
against the Commander-in-Chief and the Military Secre-
tary. It was impossible that any men could receive more
general testimony to their conduct.
Sir C. DALIHAC said that a great deal of heavy duty
Rai thrown upon the Horse Guards by the troops on fo-
te;an stations.
Captain CHETWYND said that all military men were
satisfied with the conduct of the Commander-in-Chief.
, Mr. HUME meant no personal reflection on Lord Hill,
INA he would not give him his confidence. The charge
against the Government was that they allowed Lord Hill
!O employ the patronage of his office against the views and
interests of the Liberal party. Nothing was now more ne-
essary to get promotion in the army than to have Tory
interest.
Mr. C. FERGUSSON knew of no case in which the
Political opinions of Lord Hill had any influence on his
Conduct as Commander-in-Chief.
Mr. T. D U NCO NI BE said the whole influence of the
Horse-guards was employed in opposition to the Liberal
wishes of the country.
Lord HOWICK said the Commander-in-Chief had no
Political functions to discharge. His functions were
merely administrative.
After a few words from Mr. Hume, Lord Howick, Mr.
Ervart, Mr. Leader, Mr. Goring, and Captain Boldero, the
lime was agreed to.
The next vote was 16,123/. to defray the expenses of
the Royal Military Asylum and School.--Agreed to.
On the vote that 105,4071. he granted for the pay of
the volunteer corps,
Mr. HUINIE said he should propose that such a vote be
negatived altogether, inasmuch as the volunteer corps were
injurious to the peace of the country.
The House then divided, and the numbers were—
Ayes
Noes

Majority
The next vote was that of a sum not exceeding
113,0001. be granted to his Majesty for the pay of Ge-
neral Officers, not being Colonels of regiments.
Mr. HUME asked if Brevet-Generals were included
in this vote ?
Lord HOWICK replie:l in the affirmative.
After a few swords from Mr. HUME and Sir C. DAL-
111A C, the vote was agreed to.
The sum of 66,5001. was also agreed to for the payment
of reduced retired officers.
A sum not exceeding 549 000/. was also agreed to for
the half-pay of retired officers.
'lie following sums were also voted, after short convcr-
sat ens on the several items :
71,000/ for the half-pay of foreign officers, and the
widows and children of deceased foreign officers.
148,728/, for the pension of officers' widows.
146,500/, for the compassionate list.
'p..1)326,243/. 13s. Bd. for the maintenance of Chelsea and
iVlniainham Hospitals, &c. &c.
17,0001. for the superannuation allowances of officers in
,
,„`", Public medical departments ; and 40,0001. for the
"11,aintenanco of provisional forces at the Cape of Good
The
'"urned. Chairman then reported progress, and the House

HACKNEY CARRIAGES BILL.
Alderman WOOD moved the second reading of
w Mr. WARBURTON hoped the Hon. Gentleman
(x°l9l not proceed now with the Bill. If he persisted, he
;,.1% Wognd arburton) did feel bound to oppose him on this
independently of his opposition to the principle.
The House divided. The numbers were—

For the motion..

28

Against it
hlr
" Msjority for the second reading —2o
•HUNIE moved for a copy of the table of fees.
iatged by the Dean and Chapter of Westminster Abbey
•°'• burial fees, distinguishing the rate of burial within Itti
With the Abbey, andc stating the date when the present
tate and scale of fees were made, and by what Authority.
Dears
a list of the number of applications made to the
and Chapter of Westminster Abbey for permission
l ct monuments or monumental tablets, in the Abbey
ear
of the last ten years, stating the names of all the
,74.8°113 for whom application was made, distinguishing t
t-oPPlications complied with and those rejected, with the rea-
na for rejection, stating the amount of fees received on
enaell cas where the application was complied with.—
`''•dered.e
revenue
BAINES moved for a return of the net annual
d-e'nentle of each of the several archbishoprics, bishoprics,
'at"-:eries, canon • rebendaries, rectors, vicarages, and
eeelesia •riels'bePnefices in England and Wales, on
tetarverage stica 2
of three veers, ending Dec. 31, 1831, of the
th annual income of 230/. and upwards, as returned. in
taeentteport.of the Commissioners appointed by his :Majesty
waiegsuire into the ecclesiastical revenues of 'England and
fr„,, ; together with the amount of the sums paid forsfieersst
uLts and tenths hy each existing possessor of such ,
,P.refertnents, and livings, respectively, during the said three
'clears' and in each year fro-rn that time to the present.—
'rtit red,
charged HUMS moved for a copy of the burial fees
arPd by the Dean and Chapter of Westminster Abbey.
eating Also Also for an account of the number of appli-
the erecting monuments in Westminster Abbey, for
last ten ea4 years, and the amount of fees charged in such
.
rtoMr• •---Ordered EWART moved for a return of the amount of the
InTY taken at the doors of Westminster Abbey and St.
i's and the manner in which the same is appropriated.
Mr. HUME moved for a return of all the resident and
1)404-resident incumbents, in all the parishes of England
porrialinVles.—Ordered. Also for a return of the cost of
g Acts of Parliament in England and in Ireland.—
A erect. Also, several other returns connected with the
rely TV
."avy and Ordnance Departments, which were also
ordered. •
ZCol. SIBTHORP really felt half inclined to move for
srteturn of the number of returns moved for within the
amo tive years by that Hon. Member, together with the
and unt of the expense which had been incurred in printing
e.ertnaking the same out.til laugh.) He hoped, how-
hadthat.the returns now ordered would not be allowed to
precedence of the returns which he (Col. Sibthorp)
precedence
for some time hack.
i2e.l-e• HUME withdrew the notice he had given with re-
vrsir e to returns connected with the compassionate list.
ells , • HOIHIOUSE obtained leave to bring in two
war.'esone to repeal the prohibition of the payment of
tiind allowances of the East India Company's offi-
-1.71, Buring their absence from their respecaive stations in
41-ffnlaitra:a_npdth other to authorise the Commissioners for the
India to suspend the existing enactments concern-
the East fourfold system of nomination of candidates for
" India Company's College at Haileybury, and to

authorise the appointment of Examiners of candidatos for
the said College.
The Bills were accordingly brought in and read respec-
tively a first time,and ordered for a 2(1 reading on Monday.

Mr. F. MAULE moved for returns connected with
the houses of industry in Ireland, together with the ex-
penditure under that head during the last three years.
The other Orders of the Day having been disposed of,
the House adjourned at Half-past Eleven o'Clock.

PARLIAMENTARY DIVISIONS.