The Sun.
London, England, 1863-05-01 00:00:00

would be the facility of circulation, the universality of
holders, and the freedom from restraint in money ealings
ft might occur to the minds of gentlemen approaching the
onsideration of the question for the first time, wi ether
there was a likelihood of these certificates being exten-
sively, commonly, or even rarely forged. Of course, the
best means would be adopted to prevent such delinquency ;
but the guidance of exp rience showed that there was very
little danger on this score. Another difficulty might arise
from fraud when held by the joint holders. In the case of
ordinary commercial partnership it would be unwise to at-
tempt by law to secure partner against partner. But in the
case of trustees, the bill would make it a breach of trust to
take these securities ; and in addition to that it was proposed
that notice of this disability should be printed on the certi-
ficates. It w-s prop, sed that the bank should at once pro-
vide the means of effecting this new description of conver-
sion as regards Consols and the New Three per Cents., re-
serving the power to extend it to the other descriptions of
stuck. On the same principle as Exchequer bills were drawn,
it was proposed to make these certificates payable to blank
or bearer, ss that if any one, for the sake of security from
abstraction, liked to invert his own name he could do so at
the sacrifice of some of the facility of transfer which he
would otherwise enjoy. The bill would possibly affect the
revenue of the country in a slight degree, by necessitating
increased remuneration to the bank for the increased
trouble it would entail. It would also probably cause a loss,
trom foreign holders of certificates not being liable to pro-
bate duty. It was proposed to charge a maximum fee of
per cent. for the original conversion of registered stock to
certificates to bearer, with an additional fee when the num-
ber of certificates exceed a certain proportion to the amount
of stock held. A fie would also be charged where nomi-
nal c-rtifics tes were exchanged to certificates to nearer.
With regard to the issue of certificates t t bearer, taking
counsel with the hon. gentleman behind him (Mr. Hodg-
son), and the best advisers he could find, they were of
opkion that when they were going to have the national
debt represented in one d, cument, which should have no
relation whatever to any particular place, but circulate
uniformly as far it could go, that it should be one, and
issued in one place. (Hear,) But he found there was a
very strong desire in Ireland that the Bank of Ireland
should have the power of issuing its own certificates to
bearer; and in point of tact there was good ground for such
a d-mand There was a distinct national debt for Ireland
which had its centre in the Bank of Ireland, as well as the
in. in portion had its cent re in trte Bank of England; and
having had an interview that day with the members for
I ,üblin, and other gentlemen from Ireland, he would make
arrangements for the issuing of certificates to bearer in Ire-
land as well as in E gland. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. HUNT, af.er stating that the house had reason to
be thankful to the right hon. gent,eman for the lucid state_
went he had made, suggested certain cases of fraud in con-
nection with trust funds, and other descriptions of property,
which he was afraid the bill would not prevent.
Mr. MALINS expressed his thanks to the Chancellor of
the Exchequer for his measure, which he was sure would
be a great boon to the public, With regard to the fears ex-
pressed by the hon. member for Northamptonshire, they
were for the meat part imaginary. His principal object in
rising was to sugges , as tue right hon. gentlem-n had taken
a step in the right direction by giving increased facilities for
dealing in stocks, that ha would go a little further and intro-
duce some arrangement which would enable the c.wners of
stock to have their dividends paid to their bankers, upon
writing to the Bank of England requesting it to be done.
Mr. HODGSON said, from all the information they
were enabled to possess, the amount of frauds in funded
property was exceedingly small. The Bank of England
never acknowledged trusts of any kind, so that the pro-
posed alteration would make no difference in that par-
ticular, and he believed there would be no greater means
of having frauds committed by trustees under the pre-
sent bill than before. With regard to the suggestion of
the honourable member for Wallingford, all he could say
was, that it the honourable member would open an ac-
count with them at the Bank, and give them power of
attorney, they would be happy to do all his business,
(Laughter, and hear, hear.) He believed the proposal of
the Chancellor of the Exchequer would do great good, and
would encourage foreigners to invest still more largely in
English funds. At present there were £18,000,000 invested
in the funds of the National Debt by foreigners resident
abroad. He thought, the proposed measure for Ireland would
also be productive of great benefits to that country. (Hear,
near.)
The house then went into committee.
On the motion of Mr. Alderman SALO MONS, the words
"Reduced Three per Cent. Annuities" were inserted after
"Consolidated Annuities" in clause 2, giving thus the same
advantage to both descriptions of stock.
The other clauses were agreed to, and the bill passed
through committee.
TELEGRAPHS BILL.
Mr. M. GIBSON moved the third reading of this bill.
Lord A. CHURCHILL moved the third reading of the
bill this day six months. He did so because in the former
stages of the bill its details, and not its principle, were dis-
cussed. The bill had been mutilated and restricted in its
operations from the opposition that had been made to it, in
order to confirm the monopoly of existing telegraph compa-
nies. The powers of the bill had been mistaken, and he as-
sured the house there was no desire on the part of its pro•
moters to act in the arbitrary manner that had been attri•
buted to them (which had been in some instances adopted
by existing companies) by the opponents of the measure.
The subject generally had better be reconsidered. There
should be a consolidation of the existing telegraph acts.
Sir F. SMITH seconded the amendment.
Mr. F. S. POWELL considered the measure avery use-
ful one, although it might not be quite perfect.
Mr. M. GIBSON hoped the noble lord would not press
his amendment to a division, but that he would take his
chance in another place of introducing whatever amend
mints he deemed necessary.
Upon that Lord A. CHURCHILL withdrew his amend
Inept, and the bill was read a third time and passed.
CONSOLIDATED FUND (120,000,000) BILL.
The bill passed through committee.
EXCHEQUER BON DS (£10,000,000).
This bill likewise passed through committee.
BOROUGH RESIDENCE UNIFORM MEASURE