The Sun.
London, England, 1839-04-19 00:00:00

,F2NEN-ING EDITION

th.,ng like confidence in the body of the Irish people—to
1 Any thing like the extension of the franchise—to any thing
I like conferring the privileges which the. subj, cts of this
a' t country enjoyed—was not that antipathy likely to per-
petuete distrust in the law ?—( Cheers.) He knew ot iio-
thing which could so much tend to remove distrust as the
course of conciliation which the present Govetument had. adopted on' Hear, hear.) There was another portion of
Lord Norrnauby's Government, which he might appeal to
4' one of the most useful ; he meant the effort to put down
those
,local disturbances—those fights—which tended not
I 4 y to enlist the peasantry under hostile banners, but also
A o f
tamiliarize them with scenes of blood. —( neer, hear.)
Since the establishment of the public prosecutors in Ire-
-e land, the bills of indictment had been properly prepared.
Prosecutioas bad been conducted efficiently, and the parties
°fretading ;sere brought to justice. Upon thet point the
Government of Lord Noraianby alight claim a compa-
rison with that of any which had adrmilistered the effairs of
Ireland, within the recollection of man. He eould not
go into the whole -subject which that point opened to dis.
cuzsion, but he would allude to the next point which was
Inuch dwelt upon, he meant that of a ippressing the
Urange Lodges, and the extraordinary comparisem
which had beets made between secret societies %sail
secret signs Slid pase.vords, and that other General Aasto
ciatien u hich carried on its proceedings to the face of day,
courting and challenging hutice. It nod been asked, win
should they put doTen Orange Associations when they sup-
polirted and encouraged Associations ot another sort. FL (4"r• Al. O'Counell) aenied that there was any point of corn-
ateison among them, and in proof of that be would refer to
°to terms ee the Noble Lord's motion, Chien specificuiia
included all political societies excluding pereens on ac-
ulit or their religion, and using secret syinbo!s an,:
signs, and acting by affiliated branches. The General
theiAssociation of Ireland did not exclude pessent on account of
r religion. It did not use secret symbols or signs, nor die
It act by affiliated branches.—(Cheers.) It had been stated by
mentthe Hon. and Learned Member for Coleraine that the Govern-
h
(ale ea. ould show a consistent resistance to aeitatton, and he
tnnent.
O'Connell) was one of those who bath sheeted that sen-
tio It was not surprising that discontent and dissatisfae-
, ele 4 rho a
per iodd prevuil in lroland when a faction had been for so
dissatisfac-
100a
permitted to usurp all places uf trust and emolu-
night to the exclusion of the great body of the people. That was
ti.4,telon why discontent had prevailed in Ireland, and much
al" wial el that the time was come when Associations of that
''
r• ere lio longer necessary, yet so long as document existed,
'57) long he
hopedho these Associations and agitations would con-
' 1,4-14 e•—( es.) Discontent under grievances might
eao a very bad thing, bet submission would be much worse.
: Irish people might be blamed for their violence, but they
rewatt ve to be laughed at if they permitted themselves to be op-
'aed with impunity. He was rather astonished to hear the
'all •!arnd Itecordr of Dublin, who he bell ured locked upon him-
as the representative of the Learned Judges in that House,
'Nrat,ing that the Judges of Ireland had stayed away from Lord
ti 0 nimby's leveee, because he had slighted their recomenentia-
-0`,1".----( Hear, hear.) That certainly' could not account for
levees
desenee of the Judges in teal, when Lord Normanby's
Covtheets,w,ere iust as much deserted as they a.terwards were.
list se.a 'tied been made that Lord Nurmanby hail pot him-
'' the .
gip, I)o.l''' head of a party, the reason assigned for that expres-
be, -.lnO that the procession which heaued his entrance into
34n:Lei, haq
flags and banners ; it. certainly happened that per-
'ea,'' Longing to the trades of Dublin accompaeied that pro•
it' s'en, and it to happened that one of the flags had a harp upon
. which was the national emblem, awl some o: the flags
colourof a green colour, but it did not appear to him that that
, was very objecticnable in the eyes of ths Hen. Member
th)re ,e.. 2----( A laugh.) The Hon. Member then referred to
the 6•lihenet.given by a Mr. Seran, Deputy Grand Master of
con razige Society, with respect to Lord Mulgrave's pruces-
nas• It there were two parties, of which the object of one
set in Bcek for equal laws, and of the other to resist all mea-
e3 for the improvement of the country, Lord Noramnby was
eertait,ty j
stifled in throwing himself into the herds of the
tio.,Tdier party, That was the whole of the offence with which
o Nnartnanby could be fairly chareed; and for that.
cane, li" Levees were deserted, the 'Judges of the lanu
a na the exempt,- and be thought he had read some-
he ' that a Noble Lord (Dufferin) had stated that. it
a., a met Lord Normanby in private he would meet him
r 'a rvate Nobleamu and not as the representative of his Sore-
allea'r'( Hear, mid a alugh.) In the same spirit every actionsam
, • carpe( at anti every action complained of, and in the
•pirit he was sorry to say the Noble Marquis's endeavours to
tea,,,,rtfa the law vigorously into effect had been frustrated by those
of them
bounden duty it was to support it. Much had been said
i;gat.anner in which Lord Noimanbe had exercised the pre-
ive f
°- mercy, but if he had in some instances exet cised
ttaculasndoub'ed right without sufficioet hiformation, he asked the
ellailede to consider whether such a fault—if fault it could be
of the
were not fa: better than .allowing the old feeling
(Ilene t'!g°ur, and partiality of the law to continue.—
last s
ss: and cheers, )By the Act which had passed
the throe em for the relief of the destitute poor of Leland,
aaeornm e Branches of the Legislature, Queen, Lords, and
c itons, had assented to the important proposition, that,
Property had its duties, as well as its rights.—(Loup
give that) He
was
'glad to fund that they were about to
pes.t moral truism its rroper force ; Hon. GeLtlemen wi-
fe: Lee n'i.ght be inclined to take too much credit to themselves
eo.
carrying that Act into effect, but he believed their az arcely
a_raaled object was not the relief of Irish mendicancy, but tha
tendedest talon of the heal franchise. Many things certain y had
eto favour the turningaeut of tenants from their holdings;
the
abolition of the fort out
franchise was one cause, and in
me interval between the passing of the Poor-law Act and its
Corning, into operation, large bodies had been turned out in mom
, 0 avoid supporting the parties who were divossessed • it was h,
this that agrarian disturbances were owing, and he regretted ti,
lay that the laws had been outrag,ed on many oecisions owing
to this circumstance He trusted an be put to tire
lyttern of exclusion which had so long prevailed and that, be-
cause the body of the population were of a different religion,
Sir privileges would not be cut down to the narrowest
limits,._( Hear, hear.) He trusted that the 110 use would give
its sanction to the motion of the Noble Lord. If the amend-
rrent were carried it would be productive of great discontent ii.
e,eni.liaal, because what did it amount to? That it was not
e " the While of the House to pronounce an opinion
don the principles of Government in Ireland.—( Hear, hear.)
the
laali Yea a declaration of that kind would produce
Item; Y - worst effects--,( Hear, hear)—but he trusted the
People
of decide in such a manner as would show the
m,,,1414 ,i)4 Ireland that the system which had been adoptee
ri3,l,c,:t. eontinued, arid he had no doubt that it would be
tern aile of effectual redress. He trusted that the sys
adalin• 1411 hid foslertd the confidence of the people in
tthet
wowdlilration of ttle law would be persevered in—the t
eblta-esPring op, and th tby its side they might see agrori:
Mein'. flourishiag and t ode and man ,factures cn _ t
are, 'nll that they ' might see Ireland not only the_ rig%
triern°' England in wsrg` ut her partner in the more gloriou
Alrilr.
saaltiah beloa7ecit'o peace.—(Cheers.)
vere a ' "RN YOUNG spoke in so law a tone of. voice t taat wan ew of his observations were audible. He did no feel_
the enogur(° gire a vote that might he construed into a censure
ooif.
ism he
~are_ Which the Lords had thought proper to put.ue, n a eseise faitfelted without entering into evidence to come to .
te
na_at; i_ favour of the Noble. Lord's motion.
be ,a _e_ • Government such as that which Mr. Pitt sat
_2
He
wouldshould like
ann`r,effects of the Union—an impartial Government standine came 1,71 n local rarty clisser;sion sufficiently removed from the
pularint mg factions which should' not aim at any temporary P%
ClantoZ, which which
net yield todhe few, nor open a door t.
of Ir i • T' his oPieion, and in the opinion, of the Protestants
of tines and, Lord Normanby's Government h'airl fallen far short
e c:ret the
wet en had
I%u? U ern era were gone abroad that the exertions ot
Rhorn they
wer_ enlisted in favour of the majority b 3 .
ase thet a grecatsurroundea, the consequence of which
~ita amongst
ti, of alarm
which
apprehensiononlybe
guessed at by taking ' L Protestants, could
tram the s into account the tide of emigration setting
Sir
ofilvioirDes onfotheatticountry. He supported th-e amendment:i
delescribed by the Hon. _E said that such feelings a 3 those ju_.
• entry with which h Mmber, did not exist in that part of the
Protestants a' was more immediately connected, where
He stants felt equal security with Catholics.—( Hear, hear.)
01: a
,18:ra D. IL ) believed that during the Administration of
i abby, the laws had been we respected, and justice
rter administered, anti he believed that the restoration ol
7ouptreina,.,
) in Ireland would be productive of the most danger-
tuh.sj:tmults.—( Hear, hear, from the Ministerial Benches. )
CHARLES DOUGLAS said that although he knew
a ‘ d Ras most prejudical to the interests of the country to
na‘,a frequent changes of alinistry, and although he knew that
ule present Ministry were turned out they would stick at no
measures, howeeer factious, to regain power, he felt it his
bounden duty to oppose the motioa of the Noble Lord, and he
't':aed tkhat the effeat of that motion be:ng carried would les
ma
se way for an efficient Government under the Right
Hon. Baronet the Member for
aTamworth—a Governmie.entt,
calculated to reform au abuses
to all
,pesa„.___(ll,ar, hear-.
), nsdinto secure equal justice
could possess the careidence of the people! gJotsi's7inZto Ireland
eteula never be done by a Government dependant for its cell-
eltance in office, u,:on tle support of any la.ecursor with
iperia hip on his lips and hatred in his hea t —(an irenical cheer
Irosn Mr. O'Conne.l.l)—and wha only sup 'ledo the Geacrit.
ment, in order to lerther his own" sordiPd iesigns u:,,o'n
the
fromets ef the poorerorders of the L ish people.—( Rear, hear,
the Opposition.)
,:,:‘l,l:a W. ROCHE said that in his opinion Lord No
rms,nhy%
rnment hail been most fair and impartial, and he did not.
Italatrelthis from any isolated instances, bet from the general
'Ch.. cter and tendency .of th.t Government which he
It
eaed had conferred great blessings upon Ireland.
tielas not correct to assert that Protestants were not safe in
ve`"ntry on account of their religion,
rral iii all the tiontro-
ext!ceso uwhish hsd taken place not a single unkind or bigoted
prP'essien had escaped from the Catholics in allusion to their
nonestnt fellow-subjects. The Neble Lord had done what
t!o °f his predecessors had attempted—he hat put down fac•
11-' flehts, which had greatly conduced to the tranquillity of
sree'and• He thanked the Ministry for their poli.-y in Ireland,
l'ae ahould suppi t the motion of the Noble Lord.
tete PLUMPirTRE was convinctd‘ that if the religion
it 0,,,,, majority of the people of Ireland were what
lae,ao"t to be, the true o-u' it tT.Ot Uilsd
the )3
greatest
t ,bt greatestban e
areCtlnng to the country instead of what i
"lilt else. greatest curse to Ireland. Then had, in conjunction
eti eta"' religion, a numerous, ignorant,
'-""ad. (" al hear," fro -n Mr. O'Connell, who made
immoral, and poleical
,
t nee, 0, , ear,.
..t elect].) The Lion. lad
Learn mervadon which we did not •
• he could
support hi
s 1 ale b , ' I•bearing false tcs h. msr said he was tanon , .e
the In Ins assert
atitiiti,l
uzye, to eo rr temporal ends,
ttaintn
ions by docurnents. They used theY terrors
_ol
me for the purpose of a
, withheld hum their flocks the same
Se •''e°l4e of Irelmut were Obeyed a full an
..
. .71 Scriptures. If
eneasa
thunde. e .
sitar, 'as, instead of hearing anathemas
would take place.
d freed
fro
ntots.,stno doubt a t'afferent st .te of things lo of the
tim • antistn
• the weakness
, the strength of Ireland, had been weakened by
of poduet of the Government, and Romanism,
°Plase the'ria bad been strewed- hened. On these grounds he should
l‘i motion of the Noble Lord. .
e re REDDINGTON had no intention of enterinAnel.ontboe.
frte)4}:4's discussion— I. Hear, hear)—with the flora
(nee te "anty cf Kent, but he could not. avoid..g o utter-
s Inen.‘‘o the surprise he felt at the opinions whichlvtilin.;t lion.
b -""a had eitpressed, and for which he could only
try
‘,.?n.:l"Pensing, that the intensity
1 ebeerosta of that lion. Member's bigotry
anco.ut
a equalled by the sincerity of his mottra%:(L
Ilia_ • ) Ile had given utterance to assertions theme.- calum-
lin es that had ever been uttered when he branded the Catho-
t4.,ecieeage in the manner he had done—he had made accusations
1 111%."Bich, he believed, no other Englishman butt himself would
' ()nee given utterance, and which he (Mr. It) thought ever
y
t bet° 'abort' they might be repeated would acknowledec
811_
e not founded in fact.—(Cheers. 1 This was the firs! time
tiii!a. IT had entered the House that he had made use o, any-e
tru'fls:_ I, lee the language of bitterness—( Hear, hear)—bet.
inhn
isttet'a the House would excuse ars, intemperate expression
the _ N hi eh he might have been betrayed ,if he had gone beyond
aabeunds of discretion ; but he could not suffer such state-
-1 "a:'events to ge forth without expressing his indignation. But if they
aed to set an example of the freeb use of the Scriptures, let
1 `...?e!'l t Ake the county of Kent. If in Ireland they had, together
u-'li ItilL .attha act-115M' of the Scriptures, their churenes. teemieg
41! saergY, laic the Cathedral of Canterbury, they rnenlit be in
Thettliartioa exactly similar to the county of Kent.—( Cheers. )
lee a' °°. Member had forgotten the events of last year, and
O. which ha,l beets made of the Scriptures in the county of
' Z:r.rit he the enlightener! f 11, ce " - 7.1,1,.---1:-',,,•'•
i'u. la ..- 7- " . :-J Itc:•_,:e, 1,,1 '7•7%;', •''T:. '' ' .
I,:ktiti°':;ftlit,!:te '1•7i,b1.• i_-;;,-i, hecause. as a resident of Ireland
onl • Lerd J.'aorraanby's Goveonuent mud pursued the
„,) course that any Government which wished to act fairly