The Sun.
London, England, 1830-06-08 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS-(LAST NIGHT.)

The Select Committee on the Clyde Navigation
Bill reported that the evidence given before the ori-
ginal Committee did not support the allegations
contained in the Bill. .

Mr. —Alderman WOOD gave notice, that on
Thursday he should move for leave to bring in a
Bill to prevent the spread of canine madness.
The same HoN. MEMBER presented a petition from
an individual named Edward Gregory, against the
punishment of death in cases of forgery.—To lie on
the table.

The Sheriffs of London presented at the Bar a
petition from the Lord Mayor, Aldermen, and Com-
mon Council, against the punishment of death for
offences against property.—To be printed.
Mr. CALCRAFT presented a petition from the
Retail Brewers of London, praying dint they might
not be put upon the same footing as the Licensed
Victuallers.—Laid on the table.
Sir WILLIAM INGLEBY presented a petition
from a place in Lincolnshire, against the duties af-
fecting coals.—Laid on the table.
Mr. MARSHALL presented a petition from a
place in Yorkshire, praying that the Assizes might
be transferred to Wakefield.—Laid on the table.
Mr. BELL presented a petition from Alnwick,
against the Beer Bill.—Laid on the table.
Mr. LENNARD presented a petition from Croy.
don, against the punishment of death in cases of
forgery.—To be printed.
Mr. AGAR ELLIS presented a report from the
Select Committee or► the library belonging to the
House.
Mr. ROBERT DUNDAS presented a petition
from the Senatus Academicus of Edinburgh, against
the stamp duty affecting the admission of Surgeons.
Mr. HUME, in presenting a petition from cer-
tain inhabitants, householders of St. Marylebone,
said, the petition complained of the number of use-
less dogs that were about the streets, and urged
upon the consideration of the House the necessity
there was that precautions should be taken to pre-
vent the mischiefs which those animals were likely
to occasion.—To be printed.
Mr. F. BUXTON presented three petitions from
places in the county of Suffolk, against the punish-
ment of death for forgery. Also, a similar petition
from a congregation of Protestant Dissenters at
Hackney.—Laid on the table.
The same HoN. MEMBER moved for copies
of any correspondence between his Majesty's Go-
vernment and the Colonial Authorities-, relative
to the state of gaols in the West Indies and in the
British Colonies in South America ; with copies of
any instructions sent to those authorities from the
Colonial Office.
Mr. HENRY GRATTAN moved for a return of
all Irish absentees, and the amount of their property.
Sir M. W. RIDLEY thought the difficulties
which stood in the way of such a return being made
were insurmountable.
Mr. HUME did not think that absenteeism ought
to be prohibited by the Legislature.
Mr. O'CONNELL said, that if the Hon. Mem-
ber near him knew the state of Ireland fully, he
would see that absenteeism was there an evil of the
highest magnitude.
Mr. WARBURTON differed from the Hon.
Member for Clare.
Mr. M. FITZGERALD wished to know from
what office the Hon. Member expected those re
turns ? If his object was to raise a question on the
subject, he thought a better mode might be resorted
to than merely a motion for papers.
After a few words from Mr. TRANI', Mr. GRAT-
r TAN withdrew his motion.

Mr. O'CONNELL presented a petition from a
place in Kilkenny, complaining of the proposed in-
crease of Irish taxes.
In answer to a question from Mr. DonERTY,
Mr. O'CONNELL stated that he had aban-
doned the intention of presenting any petition re-
lative to the Borris-o'-Katie trials.
Mt. O'CONNELL said, that the Banks of Ire-
land Bill had been read a second time, and stood for
committal, and yet the Bill had not yet been printed.
Mr. DOHERTY said, that no further step
should be taken with the Bill tilt it was printed.
Lord MILTON presented a petition from the
township of Garthwaite, in the West Riding, for
the removal of the Assizes to Wakefield ; also, pe-
titions from Onley, in favour of negro emancipation ;
also, petitions from Narsdale, for the removal of the
Assizes to 'Wakefield.
Lord MILTON also presented petitions in favour
of Negro Emancipation, from Shipley, Bradford,
and several other places in Yorkshire.
Mr. WILSON postponed his motion about the
Jews till the 17th inst.
Mr. ASTELL presented a petition from the
druggists of Bridgewater, relative to the stamps
on medicines.
Mr. WARBURTON presented a petition from
certain bankers, against the punishment of forgery by

death.
E, DAVENPORT presented a petition from

Mr. C. A. Thomson, of Chiswick, complaining of '
the loss of his properly by the fluctuations of the
currency during the last twenty years, and praying
for a Committee to inquire into his case.
Mr. SYKES presented a petition from some soap
and candle manufacturers relative to the duty on
those articles. If the tax had been taken off
soap and candles instead of off beer, it would have
been a much more useful relief, and have been with-
out those objections which had been brought against
• the latter. The tax of which he was complaining
was most oppressive, for the duty was 100 per cent.,
and, therefore, the greatest temptation was held out
for evasion. He also complained of the mode of !
collecting this duty, end referred to a memorial
which had been sent to the Board of Trade by the
soapmakers of London, to prove that the duties
were collected very unequally and unfairly. [The
Hon. Member proceeded to explain at considerable
length in what manner the deficiency of the revenue
arising from the reducticn of these two taxes might
be made good.] We understood him to propose,
for one thing, an additional tax on tallow when im-
ported, and to say, that as Russia levied a very con-
siderable export duty on this commodity, it would
only be an act of self-defence in us to levy an import'
duty on it.—(Hear, bear, from Mr. Hume.)—The
loss to the revenue would be only 700,0001., which
the Government might replace from other sources.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
said it was very easy for any gentleman to take hold
of any tax, and inquire into the restrictions which
were imposed in order to ensure its collection, and
then to make out a very strong case against that par-
ticular tax, as vexatious and oppressive. Hon.
Members might in that manner go through the
whole excise laws, and find every excise duty vexa-
tious and oppressive; nothing could be easier. BOIL
Members did occasionally enter into such statements,
and after they had made out their case, they each of
them called on him to consent to some pet tax be-

ing repealed. The Hon. Member said if he had re-
duced the duty on soap and candles, instead of the
duty on beer, he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer)
would not have been annoyed by all the opposition
he had met with on the Beer Bill. But if the

Hon. Member thought other taxes could be reduced,
affecting different interests, without opposition, he
was much mistaken. If he were to follow the

Hon. Member's advice, and abolish the duty on
candles, and impose an additional tax on soap,
granting a drawback to those who used it in manu-
factures, he should soon find that the linen and
woollen manufacturers, whose interest would be af-
fected by such a measure, would get up as vigorous
an opposition to a Bill to carry the Hon. Member's
plan into effect, as was now got up against throwing
open the trade in beer.
Mr. C. FERGUSSON knew that the various
duties imposed by the Government had been under
consideration in various counties of Scotland, and

the people had all come to one resolution—namely,
that there was no duty so oppressive as the excise
duty on soap and candles, lie was much indebted
to the Chancellor of the Exchequer for the reduc-
tion of taxation he had already made ; but ha be-

Tiered that the abolition of the tax on soap and
candies would have been tenfold more advantageous

to the people than the abolition of the tax on beer.
Mr. Alderman THOMPSON complained of the
partial manner in which the tax was levied. The
manufacturers in London and Southwark, in Brent-
ford and trammersmith, because they were situated
in what was called the home district, had to pay
their duties to the Excise every week, while the
manufacturers at Deptford, Bromley, and places not
further off, paid their duties only at the end of six
weeks. This was, in his opinion very improper;
and the manner of levying these duties ought to be
equalized.
Mr. N. CALVERT enforced the propriety of
levying a higher duty on tallow.
Mr. HUME would say a few words on what fell
from the Chancellor of the Exchequer. When the
Right Hon. Gentleman said he could not spare the
money—that be must deny—he had a surplus re-
venue of upwards of 2,000,0001. which he might
spare to give relief to the people, and the amount
of the tax on candles was only 45,0001. For this
sum 2,500 manufacturers were kept under the rod
of the Excise, which was so severely laid on, that
three hundred persons had given up business within
a year. Last year 2,800 persons had taken out
licenses to manufacture soap and candles, and this
year there was only 2,500. It was impossible for
the manufacturers to carry on their business under
such odious and vexatious regulations. As to the
loss sustained by the revenue, that might be com-
pensated by an additional duty on tallow. At
present Russia levied a duty of 2s. Gd. the cwt. on
tallow exported, and we have a duty of 3s. Gd. on
the import, making together a duty of 6,;. on the
cwt. Augmenting the import duty must give a
greater revenue without costing so mach to collect
it. The duty now received by the Exchequer on
candles did not amount to above id. per lb., but
that imposed, in fact, a tax on the people of 3d. or
4d. for every pound of candles they used. The
Right Hon. Gentleman proposed that the motion
should be brought forward next year; but at tint
time he might not be in his present place, nor might
he (Mr. Hume) be in his. God knew where they
might be next year ! He knew that the Right Hon.
Gentleman would be happy to remain, but what
changes might happen before that time could not be
known. He would not, therefore, postpone the
motion till next year; he would bring it forward
this Session. The Chancellor of the Exchequer
said he could not spare the money. Let hint but
bring in the Bill to raise the duty on Russian tallow,
from 6s. to 7s. or Bs. per cwt., by which lie might
raise 500,0001., he would find no difficulty in passing
such a Bill; and he might immediately abolish the
Excise Duty on Candles. But he would go further
also, and reduce the Duty on Soap. On it there
was a direct tax of threepence per pound. There
was also a tax on Tallow, a tax on Barilla, a tax on
Rosin, which made the tax on Soap direct and in-
direct fourpence per pound, which every man had
to pay before he could use a single pound of soap.
There was another inducement to lower the tax
which he would mention. lie was anxious to see
the duties equalized in England, Ireland, and Scot-
land.—(Hear, hear.)—The taxes ought to be the
same in every part of the empire, but he would
never raise an Irish tax to the level of an English
one. He would lower the English high tax to a
level with the Irish low tux. If the Irish Members,
who were in general very bad voters—(A laugh)—
would only attend, they might, perhaps, get such a
thing accomplished. The Scotch Members were bad
voters, but the Irish were worse; though, owing
to a rebellion of the latter, he had once the misfor-
tune to be in a majority.—(A laugh.) A Bill was
brought in, relating to Scotland, and the Opposition
carried its point, because, on that night there hap-
pened to be a rebellion amongst the gentlemen for
Ireland. They were one hundred, and if they
would only attend and vote, no doubt, a question
for equalising the duties in all parts of the Empire
might be carried. But the inducement he was about
to speak of was directed to the Chancellor of the
Exchequer. He found that the exports of Soap in
Ireland, in 1827, amounted to 239,0001b5.; in 1828,
to 859,0001b5.; and in 1829, to 2,645,0001b5.
Why, if the Irish used all their soap, they must be
the cleanest people under the sun.—(A laugh.)—
Every individual who came over here from that
country would be as clean as a new pin.—(A
laugh.) The fact, unfortunately, was that the soap
was not used by the Irish, it was exported in such
large quantities only to be smuggled back into
England. It was sold in Cork for 2ial. per lb.
He encouraged his Hon. Friend to bring in his Bill
even this Session, and if it were supported as he
had suggested, he had no doubt that the Chancellor
of the Exchequer would come into their terms.
Mr. ROBINSON said that the Right Hon. Gen-
tlemen had no reason to complain of not having the
means to reduce these taxes, when there were
masses of property in the country, and numberless
enjoyments possessed by the rich for which no tax
whatever was paid.
The petition was then brought up, read, and or-

dered to be printed. It was from the manufacturers
of tallow, candles, and soap, in Aberdeen, praying
for the repeal of the Excise Duties on these articles.
Mr. SYKES then presented two other petitions
on the same subject, and expressed his regret that
he could not bring forward the subject this Session
by a Bill, but he must decline it, and if he were not
there next Session, he trusted some Member snore
able would take up the subject. The petitions,
which were from Mr. Taylor, soap-manufacturer,
Leith, and from certain soap-manufacturers at Glas-
gow, with the same prayer as the former petition,
were then read and ordered to be printed.
Mr. M. FITZGERALD presented a petition
from the Freeholders and other inhabitants of Kerry,
against the Stamp Duties.
Mr. S. RICE took that opportunity of inquiring
when the subject would come under discussion.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
could not fix the time, though he was as anxious as
any person that the discussion should come on, but
the time of the House was so occupied with other
subjects that he had not found time. Perhaps he
might on Friday say when it would be brought
forward.