The Sun.
London, England, 1837-07-12 00:00:00

ASSESSED TAXES BILL.

The Assessed Taxes Bill was read a third time and
passed.
BEET-ROOT SUGAR DUTY BILL.

Viscount DU NCANNON moved the second reading
of the Beet-root Sugar Duty Bill.
The Marquis of DO WNS HIRE was desirous that the
Bill should be postponed until the next Session of Parlia-
ment. It had been passed through the other House with
great haste.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE trusted the Noble
Marquis would not oppose the Bill, because if it were not
passed, a revenue of not less than four millions sterling
would be placed in jeopardy. All the Government had in
view was to put beet-root sugar on the same looting with
colonial sugar. Complaints bad been made that the
growers of beet-root had not had sufficient notice of the
intentions of the Government ; but he did not see that they
had any reason to complain on that account. If he recol-
lected rightly the growers of tobacco had not had so early
notice as had been given in this instance to the growers of
beet-root.

The Marquis of SALISBURY said it appeared strange
that while constant complaints were made of the want of
employment in Ireland, and when one means was found for
remedying a part of the evil, obstacles should be thrown in
the way of it by the Legislature. Besides, the excise regu-
lations were such thst the malufacturers of sugar from beet
root would not be able to raise it at a remunerating price,
even without duty. .

The B:11 was then read a second time.
The Marquis of D W I.4.;SHIRE pres2nted a petition
from a Mr. Bradshaw, in Downshire, against the Bill.
CONDUCT OF THE IRISH GOVERNMENT.

The Marquis of WESTM EATH, in rising to move for
copies of the correspondence of which he had given notice,
said the Noble Earl opposite (Earl Mulgrave) had com-
plained on a former evening, of not having received due no-
tice of the questions to be put to him. He could not,
however, urge the same reasons that evening, as since Mon-
day sc'nnight sufficient time had been given to send over to
Dublin and procure what papers he might judge necessary.
Towards the close of last session he had intended to bring
the transactions of which he was about to complain before
their Lordships, but had been prevented. As the Noble Rid,
however, had thrown out a sort of challenge the other night
and had offered to meet any one who would impugn his
Administration in Ireland, he had thought proper to
take up the question, and the more so as be had been
one of those who had signed the petition agreed to at the
Protestant meeting over which the Noble Marquis had
presided. In entering on the subject he disclaimed all
party feelings, while at the same time he declared himself
a most uncompromising opponent to the Noble Earl as re-
garded his government in Ireland, and chiefly on the ground
Om he did not wish to see a great proportion of the Irish
people involved in the agitation which was now going on in
that country. Many of the inhabitants of Ireland felt
deeply wounded by the conduct of the Noble Earl, who
disdaining to be guided by the example of his predeces-
sors, rather busied himself in seeking out the imaginary
grievances of a particular party, in order to obtain a cha-
racter fur mitigating and redressing evils which did not ex-
ist ; and at the same time, in making experiments on the
peace, security, and comfort of the people of that country.
For his part, he was as much disposed as any man to pay
every respect to the representative of the Sovereign.
and he would be as ready as any one to pay
respect to the Noble Earl in that capacity ; but knowing
what had passed, he felt convinced that it would be nothing
less than contaminating himself if he entered the Castle
of Dublin until it was purged of its contamination by
the exit of a prominent character from that place.—(A
laugh.) Did the Noble Earl laugh ? He might laugh,
but let him recollect that Ise introduced into the Castle
a man who had been convicted of a serious offence
against the law, though he had never been punished for it.
Let him recollect that he had introduced into the Castle a
man who had reviled members of the family of the Sove-
reign. Let him recollect that he had introduced a man
who, expert as he was at chicanery, had invented a system
for frittering away three-fourths of the provisions of the
boasted Reform Bill by means of fraud and perjury.—(A
laugh.) Was the Noble Earl still amused by the recital ?
But could he deny the fact ? He could not deny it ; and
he would tell the Noble Earl that while the head of that
man whom he had thus introduced into the Castle—while
the head of that man was on his shoulders, all the persons
who had suffered for similar crimes in 1798 were murdered.
—(Laughter.) He would not, however, be deterred by
these symptoms, and he would call again upon the Noble
Earl to recollect that he had introduced into the Castle a
man who had inculcated a qualified obedience to the Sove-
reign, and within a few days had issued a manifesto contain-
ing a conditional allegiance till measures should be carried
which he had recommended, and which had been introduced
at his dictation, and which but for the inflexibility of their
Lordships' House would have by this time become the law
of the land. He would now proceed to the specific
motion of which he had given notice. Towards the close
of the Government of the Marquis of Anglesea, Sir
Richard Nagle took the chair at a tithe meeting in West-
meath. The resolutions agreed .to at that meeting at-
tracted the attention of the Government, and in conse-
quence of that the Marquis of Anglesea asked him, as
Lord-Lieutenant of the county, to endeavour to find out
the reasons for Sir Richard Nagle taking the chair. The
Lord Chancellor also required of him the same duty ; and
in obedience to these instructions he forwarded to the Go-
vernment the reasons assigned for the proceedings. Incon-
sequence of that communication, the Marquis of Anglesea
did not think he would be justified in allowing Sir Richard
Nagle to hold a commission in the peace, and he (Lord
Westmeath) was directed to take the usual steps for remov-
ing him from the commission. That accordingly was done,
and then the agitation party came forward and got up reso-
lutions setting forth that he was well qualified to represent
them in Parliament. In consequence he became a member
of Parliament and remained so till the close of last Session.
About that time he (the Marquis of Westmeath) received a
letter from Mr. Drummond, requesting to know if there
were any reasons why Sir Richard Nagle should not
be reinstated in the commission of the peace. In answer
to that he stated that he thought the original cause of
Sir Richard Nagle's removal ought to continue to ope-
rate on the Government, and that he saw no reason
for his being restored. -On that very day he heard by
accident that the Lord Chancellor had restored him to
the commission, and that he considered only a prelimi-
nary for appointing him again to the depute),Lieute-
nancy.te-
nancy. In attending to the instructions of th
Mrquis
He considered
of Anglesea, he had only done his duty.
he was bound to obey, and Sir Richard Nagle was re-
. moved ; l;rt z,.- vet he could see no reason for re.tnrryz him,
except the fact that matters were no longer the same, and
that be bad giveu his support to the Goverment in the

House of Commons. Now, looking at the usual practice, Was he to write for information upon the numerous topics
and to that even adopted by the Noble Viscount (Mel- to which the Noble Marquis had referred? Was he now
bourne) when he was Home Secretary, he must say that
to eoe called upon to reply to them without the slightest
the treatment towards him had been most uncourteous ;
notice being given to him—without the least intimation that
but he put himself out of the question, and asked what
they were to b e alluded to—without the possibility of re-
effect it was calculated to have on the people of Ireland ?
ferring to various papers connected with them ? And was
He felt some interest to know the reasons of the Noble
he to be called upon to do this because the Noble Marquis
Earl for such conduct, and should not wonder if the Noble
had thought proper, in moving for a correspondence upon two
Earl was not able to justify it. The Noble Marquis then
particular points, to enter into the many subjects he had
complained of the appointment of Mr. Sheil to a commis- alluded to,and because the Noble Lord upon such an occa-
sion in the peace in opposition to his wishes ; and adverted
sion had delivered one of the most unparalleled pieces of
to the appointments of Mr. Cassidy and Colonel Butler, oratory that he believed had ever been addressed to that
all the circumstances connected with which had been re- House ?—(Cheers and laughter.) One part of the Noble
peatedly brought before the public. The Noble Marquis Marquis's obsen'ations was addressed to the proceedings of
then proceeded to canvass the propriety of the pardons the Carlow Committee, into the nature of which he should
extended by the Lord Lieutenant to offenders of all deno- not enter ; the Noble Marquis had even quoted something
minations in Ireland. Amongst others he mentioned the from the proceedings of that Committee. Now, what con-
case of one Patrick Kitty, of Limerick, who was con- section had he with the Carlow Committee ?—(Hear, hear.)
victed of murder, and whom his Excellency had liberated
Surely their Lordships might well ask, how could he pos-
without bail. So eager was the Lord Lieutenant in this
sibly conceive that such a topic could be introduced upon
headlong course of forgiveness, that he pardoned three per-
such a motion ?—(Hear.) But then the Noble Marquis had
sons charged with keeping brothels. In all cases of par- alluded to many other topics, and he should now, as far as
Boning it was understood that the parties gave assurance he could do so without the documents, apply himself to those
that they would never offend again. He supposed, of topics, and give the best explanation that, under the circum-
course, this precaution was taken on the present occasion.
stances, it was in his power to give. He should first allude
From the hulks and depots it appeared that the Lord
to what the Noble Lord had said of his return to the Govern-
Lieutenant had released 34, with cause assigned ; and 11
maul of Ireland ; and without troubling himself very much
from the hulk Essex, stationed in Dublin, without cause. as to the anxiety the Noble Marquis seemed to labour un-
Of these one was under sentence of death, two of trans- der as to his returning to Ireland, he should only say that it
portation for life, and eight of transportation for seven
was one consolation to him, under the direful denunciation
years. He thought the enumeration of the Lord Lieute- pronounced against him by the Noble Marquis, that he had
nant's pardons formed such a catalogue of misgovernment combined his presence in Ireland with the representation of
as that if, in the face of it, her Majesty's Ministers were the people there.—(Cheers.) The Noble Marquis seemed to
to send him back to govern Ireland, they would be tam- labour under a great apprehension of the representation of
pering, with the peace and good government and good opi- the Irish people ; and he even had declared that he wished
nion of every non-party man in that country. He should to God that they could get rid of representation in that
trespass now for a very few minutes whilst he referred to country.—(Hear, hear, hear.) In such company as the
the appointment of the Sheriffs, which formed one of the Noble Marquis had been pleased to place to him he could
most serious and important features in the misgovernment assure the Noble Lord that he was happy to be the object
of the Noble Earl. The Noble Marquis then enumerated of his censure.—(Cheers.) There was one portion of the
the cases of the county of Westmeath, where two Prete, documents which the Noble Marquis had moved for that
tent gentlemen who were willing to serve and were on the he could more appropriately have called for at another time
lists were passed over, and a gentleman appointed who was beyond the present : he could have called for them in the
not on the list, and was a Catholic ;of the county of presence of his Noble and Learned Friend (Lord Plunket),
Clare, where the Lord Lieutenant had passed over three who had been there for a considerable portion of the early
gentlemen who were on the list, and appointed a fourth part of the session, and who would have been most ready
who was not on the list ; and, lastly, of Carlow, where to have given him an answer as to the whole of that which
his Excellency had passed over two names who were regarded the case of Mr. Sheil. He should not trespass
on the list, and appointed Mr. Keogh, who was not upon their Lordships with that, although he could go into
on the list. In connection with the latter appointment the whole of the case of Mr. Sheil. Then as to the case
the Noble Marquis then proceeded to advert to the results of Mr. Cassidy, he must say that the Noble Marquis had
which took place in the election proceedings of Carlow. gone into some gossip, in his opinion (what was very un-
Mr. Keogh, upon being appointed sheriff, applied to the At- worthy of him), as to some conversation that Mr. Cassidy
torney:General for Ireland to recommend him a person as had at one time with the Noble Lord himself as to Mr.
assessor, and he recommended Mr. Welch, a member of O'Connell.—( Hear, hear.) In these, as in all other cases,
the Association in Dublin, and, moreover, what was familiarly he rested with the most perfect confidence upon the judg-
called the Attorney-General's " Devil." This gentleman was menteand discretion of his Noble and Learned Friend, and
appointed, and what took place in consequence exhibited such especially when he decided that cases were made out for
a system of unfair dealing and improper interference in elee- interfering, without the consent of the lieutenants of
tion matters in Ireland as made him (the Marquis of West- counties, in the appointment of magistrates worthy of the
meath), for one, wish rather that they had no Irish repre- popular confidence.—(Hear, hear, from Lord Roden.) He
sentatives at all in Parliament, and were entirely at the dis- avowed, and he was prepared to defend, the establishment of
posel and under the protection of the English Parliament, a Government enjoying the popular confidence in the due
than have the sort of representation which they now had. and proper administration of the laws.—( Cheers.) The Noble
(Hear, hear, from Lord Holland.) In the election corn- Lord had, however, made a charge against him the ac-
mittee of 1835 thirty-six votes were ordered to be erased. curacy of which he disclaimed. The Noble Marquis
At the election which ensued two of these persons presented stated that he had set himself up in opposition to all former
themselves to vote, and objections having been made to Viceroys. He disclaimed that he had, upon any occasion,
them what did the assessor do ? Why, he allowed them to ever done so ; he disclaimed that he had upon that, or any
take the oath, and alter the wording of it for the occasion to other occasion, done so ; on the contrary, he had upon most
suit their particular cases, and then admitted them to vote, occasions acted in that very way which he believed would
,which they did in favour of the Liberal candidate. The Noble have been adopted by either of his two Noble Friends who
Marquis, after mentioning one or two other similar cases of had held the government of that country for a long time,
favouritism toward the Liberal voters, proceeded to con- with such advantage to it, and with such credit to them-
trast this conduct of the assessor with what he did in re- selves.—(Hear, hear.) As to Sir Richard Nagle, he had
spect of two other voters on the other side who presented to say this, that the best proof of the propriety of the
themselves to give their vote. Their vote was objected to time which had been adopted with regard to that gentle-
because they were described of a wrong barony in the list. man was, that the present Lord Chancellor cf In land who
How did the assessor act ? Did he allow them to make sanctioned his restoration was the Lord Chancellor of Ire-
good their claim, and rectify the error by the usual oath or land at that very time when, under the circumstances, he
declaration before voting ? No. He allowed them to re- thought that it was a good step to take to have him
gister their vote in the first instance, and afterwards it was removed from the Deputy- Lieutenancy of the county, and
discovered that their votes were invalid, when it was too also from the commission of the peace. But why did the
late for them to take the affidavit, which they might have Noble Marquis now bring this matter forward thirteen
done before. The Noble Marquis then referred to the months after the thing had passed? He did not ex-
state of the grand-jury list after the appointment of Sheriff actly recollect the terms of the letter written upon the oc-
Keogh. Before that gentleman's appointment there had casion ; but, as far as he could remember it, he believed the
been 3°5 Protestants and 295 Catholics on the panel ; the terms of the letter to the Noble Marquis were nearly
after it there were only ten Protestants on the panel. The these—that it was expedient that Sir It. Nagle should be
consequence of this state of things was that it was very dif• restored to the Commission of the Peace, and also to
fieult, if not impossible, to obtain the conviction of persons the Deputy-Lieutenancy. As to Sir Richard Nagle
for certain offences, and acquittals took place, in spite of himself, every one who knew him must be convinced
evidence, which excited the astonishment of the bench. All that there could net he a more valuable character ; one
these considerations inspired him with the most painful ap- who was beloved and respected by all who knew him,
prchensions for the safety of life and property if the Noble and one, too, of the best of magistrates in his neigh-
Earl returned to the government of Ireland. In making hourhood.—(Hear, hear.) The cause of the removal of
the remarks which he had done he begged to observe that Sir Richard Nagle was, that. he had attended an anti-
he had no other motives in view than the peaceful govern- tithe meeting. Upon that occasion Sir Richard Nagle
merit and welfare of the country, to his residence in which had taken the chair ; there was no political expressioa
he would shortly have to return. of his upon the subject beyond this ; but he was re-
The Noble Marquis was sitting down, when moved from the commission of the peace for having
Lord BROUG 11 AM exclaimed " Read the motion ; a presided at the meeting. It was to be remembered that
vote of censure, of course !" Sir Richard Nagle, was not at that time the member
The Marquis of WESTMEATH (rising)—The Noble for the county, and no other opportunity had been el-
and Learned Lord having called me up again— finded to him of explaining his political conduct. S:r
Lord BROUGHAM—Oh, no! Heaven defend that I Richard Nagle had, however, since that time an oppor-
should !—( A laugh.) tunity of testifying what his political conduct was with re-
Lord HOLL AN D said that the Noble Marquis hat- gird to the question of tithes ; and he had shown it in his
ing made a very long speech, it was but right that, in ac- readiness to accede to that arrangement which had been
cordance with the customs of the House, he should con- sanctioned by a majority of the House of Commons. Not
elude with a motion. only had Sir Richard Nagle done this, but he had also
Lord BROUG II AM said that was all he wanted ; done something more. Some men changed their opi-
and he must certainly add, that after the charge which nions, others only changed the mode of expressing them.
had been advanced by the Noble Marquis against the Perhaps the Noble Marquis was not aware that there
Noble Earl at the head of the Government of Ireland, he were some persons who changed their opinions, and
expected to hear, not a mere motion for papers, but a di- others only the expression of their opinions.—(Cheers
rect vote of censure. and laughter.) Now, the opinion of Sir R. Nagle, and
that of a majority of the Irish people, was against the pre-
The Marquis of WESTMEATH explained that when
he rose a second time he was only going to explain, in an- sent arrangement of the tithe question. But Sir Richard
swer to the Noble and Learned Lord opposite, why it was Nagle, and the people, too, had learned the advantage of
he did not conclude with a vote of censure ; as it ap- having the law upon their side, and would no longer set
peered, however, that he was precluded from doing this, lie themselves up in defiance of the law, and the consequence
should simply read the motion which was on the paper- was, that their Lordships heard now of such meetings being-
Lord BROUGHAM begged to explain that he did not held in that country with men of the weight and importance
at all object to the Noble Marquis moving a vote of cen- of Sir Richard Nagle presiding over them.—(Hear.) But
sure against the Noble Earl ; '.on the contrary, after the there was, moreover, this fact to be stated with regard to
speech which he had made, he thought he was called the change in Sir Richard Nagle's position, and he was
upon to make such a motion. sure it would be considered as rather an important one by
The Marquis of WESTAIEATH then read the f
notice the Noble Marquis himself, and • those who took the same
which stood on the paper as follows .----e To move or cor- ground that he did with respect to the tithe question. Sir
respondence between the office of Chief Secretary of Ire- R. Nagle, from having presided over a meeting, the effect
land and the Marquis of Westmeath, relative to the reale- of which, it was supposed, was to offer opposition to the
tel of Sir Richard Nagle, Bart., from the lieutenancy of payment of tithes—to offer opposition to the law as it then
the county of 'Westmeath, and his re-appointment thereto ; existed—had paid his tithes. This lied happened since,
also, for correspondence (if any) with the Lord Chancellor and, as example was better than precept, he had paid. his
of Ireland and the Marquis of Westmeath, relative to Sir tithes.—(Hear, hear.) Sir R. Nagle's conduct was, in the
It. Nagle's removal and restorationvestmeath ; and to the to the commission of one view, only constructively encouraging the opposition to
the peace for the county of \
ap- tithes; while, in the other, he had taken the positive step
pointment of -- Sheil,,Esq., to the commission of the of paying them.—(Hear, hear.) With regard, then, to Sir
pea
Richard Nagle, he did not think it necessary to say any-
Theee for
Earl
then rose, and said, that if'
trhle of said
MULGRAVEeounty'
thing more. When the circumstances that had occurred
the Noble Lord at the commencement of his somewhat with respect to Sir R. Nagle took place, it so happened that
rhapsodical oration had intended to put him (the Earl of he was engaged in the public service thousands of miles
Mulgrave) in a passion, he never had more completely from Ireland, and he new nothing of them except through
failed ; and any amusement also which his speech had the usual channels of information. But he felt convinced
occasioned to him had also in some degree subsided. that his Noble and Learned Friend had taken a clear and dis-
He should, therefore, confine himself to reply to the dif-
tenet view of the question upon both occasions—that Lord
ferent charges which the Noble Marquis had brought Plunkett had taken into due consideration the propriety of
before the House, in, he must say, a most extraordinary the removal from the commission of the peace in the one
and unfounded manner. He had said on a former oc- case, as he had to restore the same person to the commission
casion, that if the Noble Lord had followed the open and
statements of the peace under altered circumstances.—(Heare)e .Very
the manly course—if he had done that which, in this in- many topics had been introduced by the Noble -marquis in a
stance, had been done—if he had declared his opinions rambling way in his address, and soma Marquisateme nhtsin were
I I distinctly with respect to the manner in which the Go-1
made upon the authority of the Noble
vernment of Ireland had been conducted, then he (the The Noble Marquis had afforded him no opportunity of
Earl of Mulgrave) should be prepared and ready to procuring papers necessary to answer his statements ; but
answer—he should be ready to rise in . his place in that tso happened that he had one communication with respect
House, and make the best defence that was in his power to thatNohlelelarisTiiis whichdue hu em haddocument
referred
accidentally
to at a
against any charges that could be preferred. But the Noble amongst his papers.
Lord observed, that he had complained the other day that meat made in the course of one of the Noble Mar-
no notice had been given to him, so as to enable him to be quis's exhibition!—to one that he had made in the early
prepared with documents ; and the Noble Lord had face- part of the Session,th and he meant to read it for the pur-
tiously remarked, that he (the Noble Marquis) was better pose of.
the tno credit was to be attached to the
acquainted with the Irish post than he was, and that he authorityf of Noble Marquis—that nothing was to be
t
a act.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Marquis
might have sent for any documents he might requirelNuohwe,
gea?el,ndsaroidm, thetuhftafssertion of the Noble Marquis as to his
wwheen lt had, winformationithreference,,iv h
et
no
llitei s ( dischargingth e
Earl
of
m u iprisonersMulgrave)
)frhoamd
it was past seven o'clock on the Friday afternoon when
(the Noble Marquis) rose to make his motion,la
d, and he
was too late to have a communication with
viseitteh, the gaol of Mullingar, in the county of West-
awnnvaesneiennatble tod
had then suggested that it would be meotirlelhreeeo
West-
postpone the discussion on the motion
ro madness, and the proof of this was that the day follow-
Lord the gaoler was in a state of transition from sanity
Lord said he might have written toing he had to be put into a strait-waistcoat ; and yet it was
wanted from Ireland ? It
to have some information on the subefrueetiandß.utNtuhwe,Nwohbalet
upon the recommendation of that man that 19 prisoners
was it that the Noble Marquis
were let out of gaol."—(Hear, hear, from the Marquis of
Westmeath relative to the re Westmeath.) Now, what would their Lordships think
was a copy of the correspondencevaluwfitshir tßheichNalradrqNuiusgolef
County Westmeath.—(Hear,
from the Lieutenancy of the when they found that in the whole of that statement there
and laughter.) was not one fact ?—(Cheers.) The man was not in a state
The Marquis of WESTMEATH said he wanted no • i
of• transition from sanity to madness ; the man had not to
f the
such thing : his notice was for a copy o correspondence
be put into a strait-waistcoat the next day ; and it was not
with the Secretary of Ireland. on the recommendation of that man that 19 prisoners had
• The Earl of MULGRAVE observed that it did not sig_ been discharged.--(Hear, hear.) What was his astonish-
oify as to the exact terms of the motion- That motion merit sonic days after this statement had been made, and
had been shown to him on Thursday. He was asked if he when he returned to Ireland, to receive a letter at the
objected to that motion. He replied that he did not oh- Castle signed by this very gaoler! He owned that he dis-
ject to it, but that he thought it was at all events right trusted the evidence of his eyes—he could not credit it--
that due notice should have been given of it, The Noble he could not believe that a Peer of Parliament, trusting to
Marquis upon this did give his notice ; but it was without the implicit reliance that should be placed upon his solemn
any communication with him as to the time that the motion assertion—he could not believe that a person so situated
would he made, or without affording him an opportunity for would lightly bring forward grave charges—that he would
writing for the information that the Noble Marquis re- not only do this, but state that which was directly the very
quired. But what notice had he of the nature of the reverse of the fact ; and this, too, connected with his own
Noble Lord's motion, and the manner in which it was to county, and with which he had an official connection--
be introduced ?—(Cheers.) He appealed to the candour (Hear, hear)—he could not believe that very Noble Lord
of ev:' .able 1.3r'3 rl,o hoard him if he could possihly wouhl ‘cuture to make ,azell charges without having very
Lave at;tieipated the eourb'e which tne is;oble i\larquis nud good grounds ink. thenn—o_Theers.) Yet vvinat more was
thought proper to adopt upon this occasion ?—(Cheers.) there connected with the ease of the man thus assailed ?

10 looking over the returns to that House the name of the
Parson was still to be found. But their Lordships would
Oe surprised when he referred to a letter he had received
upon this subject. The writer of it was the Hon. and
Rev. Henry Browne, the Rector of Muflinger, and the in-
spector of the prison. With respect to the high character
of that clergyman, he could venture to refer to the Noble
Marquis himself, and even he must be bound to say of the
Rev. Henry Browne, that never was there a better coun-
try clergyman nor a more respectable man.—(Hear, hear,
from the Marquis of Westmeath.) His answer was to this
effect—" With reference to the governor of Mullingar pri-
son, durieg his knowledge in connection with that prison fe
nine years, he had never known one more alive to the
of his situation, or more efficient in the discharge of
of. duties
them.
Upon his Excellency's visit to the prison, everythingdays
been arranged with the most minute care. Ahe a)s
afterd
was,.n
he was attacked by fever, and upon the Saturday few
the usual course of the disease, delirious.--( Hear.) Bttt
upon 22d Aug. (the day his Excellency
Vf visited prison),
thson.e),
OS competent not only to conduct the affairs of
prison, but to assist him (the writer) in recommending and
pointing out on that day the prisoners entitled to his Ex-
cellency's notice."—(Cheers.) Where, then, was the gaoler
that was in a state of of transition from sanity to madness ?
Their Lordships perceived that strait-waistcoat had to he
put upon him the next day ; nor was it upon his recommen-
dation, but upon that of the Hon. and Reverend Henry
Browne, that he had discharged a few prisoners confined
for minor offences, and near the expiration of their sen-
tences.—(Hear.) Mr. Browne added, that he was happy
to be able to state that he had it in his power to quiet the
injured feelings of a highly meritorious and valuable officer.
(Hear, hear.) Now, he must say that it was not fair, it was
not becoming, it was not proper—and he had to add, he did
not envy his feelings—when the Noble Marquis thus came
forward, and, whatever might be the station of the person,
wantonly preferred a charge against him—against a person,
too, holding an office in the chief town of the county over
which he presided ; and this, too, for the purpose of making
an unfounded accusation against the head of the Govern-
ment under whom he held a commission.—(Cheers.) He
told the Noble Lord that he did not envy him his feelings ;
he told him more, that the more assertiou of the Noble Lord
would henceforward not be sufficient for him ; and when
the Noble Lord rose in his place, be would not say that. he
did not believe him, but that it would not be enough for
the Noble Lord, in his place in Parliament, to tell them
what he had fancied to have heard, or what he believed he
was told.—(Cheers.) He assured the Noble Lord lie
should distrust his authority ; and even in any official re-
ports coming from the Noble Lord, he would require some
further confirmation of them—something more than his
assertion ; for the Noble Lord had proved himself to be
too credulous in believing, and too careless in asserting.—
(Loud cheers.) He had now to refer to the returns of the
prisoners liberated. The Noble Lord had put into the re-
turn, skilfully enough, not only all the persons that had
been discharged by him upon the recommendation of the
inspect Ors, but also all the persons discharged upon the re-
commendation of the Judges, upon medical certificates and
for other reasons. It was difficult in a return of 1,300
cases to catch at a particular name ; but luckily there was
a ease in Galway of which he could from recollection ven-
ture to say this--that he saw Judge Burton with respect to
that case, he saw the man when he was in Galway. The
case was a very curious one, and with the particulars of it he
should not trouble their Lordships. The verdict of the Jury
was murder ; and although the Judge said, from considering
all the circumstances, he was not inclined to set it aside, yet
the case was one for the extension of mercy. Had the
Noble Lord given him notice that he meant to make this a
charge against the Irish Government, he should have been
prepared to meet it. He had said that he wished to hear
of any charges that could be made against him. To be
sure he did ; but then he wished to be met fairly—(Cheers)
—he wished it to be done not in a manner that would put
it out of the power of the human intellect to apply itself
to the subject.—(Hear, hear.) He had certainly a right
to complain of the conduct pursued upon this occasion.
No one could have possibly supposed that the Noble Mar-
quis, in moving for papers as to the appointment of two
persons to the commission—no one but the Noble Marquis
himself could have supposed that he was therefore entitled
to go into every subject he could possibly think of, or that
the Noble Marquis was entitled, therefore, to call on him
to tax his recollection as to the cases of 1,300 persons—
some liberated upon reference being made to the Assistant-
barristers, others upon the recommendation of the Judges,
snore upon medical certificates—but to all of which he
had given the most anxious care, and the most deliberate
attention, as it was his duty to do in all cases. There
was for instance, the case of Hickey. He supposed
that had occurred after the Spring Assizes, and when
the numbar of prisoners was large, and some of them
convicted of very grave offences. He had an indistinct
recollection that Hichey had been recommended by Mr.
Sergeant Green for the exercise of mercy. This was his
recollection, but he was not positive as to the fact. - He be-
lieved that Hickey was recommended on the ground of in-
minty. The Noble 'Marquis had gone through a great
number of cases—of murders, of aggravated assaults, of
persons improperly liberated. He repeated then, what he
seated upon a former occasion, that none charged with grave
offences, with serious offences—that no such persons had
been liberated except upon medical certificates, and in great
cases with reference to the authorities presiding at the trials.
As to this matter, the discharging of prisoners, he believed
that it was impossible for the power of language to have
gone further for the purpose of misrepresentation than it
had done with regard to that proceeding.—( Hear.) Much
it ought to be remembered, depended upon the peculiar cir-
cumstances of the case, and they could only judge of the
propriety of each by looking to the peculiar circumstances in
each case. He had to say, filet of the whole of the pri-
soners discharged upon the recommendation of the Inspec-
tors—of all those there were but nineteen recommitted, and
those were for two or three minor offences, such as
throwing stones, Rec. With regard to the Hon. and
Rev. Mr. Browne, he wished to make one remark. Even
the Noble Marquis himself had assented to the cha-
racter that he had given of that Hon. and Rev. Gen-
tleman. He hoped that he might be permitted to take
that opportunity of saying, not only was the lion. and Rev.
Mr. Browne as deserving a man as an inspector of the gaol
and a Protestant minister, but so also were all the Pro-
testant ministers who were inspectors of gaols. He never
in his life saw a set of men conduct themselves in a more:
exemplary manner, or with greater propriety of feeling,:
than those gentlemen did in their arduous duties. It seemed
to bins that, being the ministers of an establishment of
which the actual professors were few, and being not con-
fined to the care of a flock, they seemed to take delight in
labouring for the common fold of Christianity.—(Hear.)
It would be impossible to find a set of men act better, and
lie said this from his personal experience, while other Noble
Lords, who did not attend to such matters as the visitation
of prisons, made such mistakes about the gaols in their own
counties, that they did not know who the persons there
were, and described the persons who had to take care of
them as being in a state of insanity at the very moment that
they were in the useful discharge of their duties.—( Cheers.)
He had not only received from Mr. Browne, but also from
other gentlemen similarly situated, letters upon that point
which had been so much complained of, and from them he
Was in possession of papers in which they, as inspectors of
prisons, bore testimony to the excellent effect produced by
the discharge of prisoners under the limitations that he had
placed it. Those gentlemen declared that they found it not
only useful to themselves, as giving them a controul over
the prisons that they had charge of, but also in effecting the
tranquillity of the surrounding country.—( Hear, hear.)
There were, it was to be remembered, peculiar circum-
stances connected with Ireland that rendered it possible
that what was expedient to do there might not be appli-
cable_ to the settled state of England.—( Hear, hear.) The
Noble Marquis had stated as to some of the persons dis-
charged, that they had been convicted of the crime of per-
Jnry- Now, in the whole of the oration of the Noble Mar-
quis there was only one point in which he concurred with
vs
him, and that
of perjury. L
uaesk
corded. It his denunciation of the horrible crime
would Y his opinion upon this subject was re-
Pennefather. be found in &communication with Baron
In
.of the minutes he had made he .bad
declared that he e necessity of suppressing the crime
of perjury ; he had
so thstated his opinion ; nor was there
which
any one instance in a
person convicted of the crime of
perjury had been discharged,except under special circum-
stances, which did not at affect the crime itself. The
Noble Marquis had read him
td
aesosfon uphon the impropriety
of discharging persons convicted
had discharged them without consuslutiena
thata tehroimsee,bas if
ohe
they had been tried. He had shown
he Jdwdonme exactly the reverse, and he had proved that he was any-
thing but indifferent to the commission of a crime which he
agreed with the Noble Marquis in thinking struck at the
well being of society in Ireland. The Noble Marquis had
then stated that many had been discharged without giving
bail. What was the object in requiring bail ? It was to
Prevent the same person from recommitting the same ag
fence, or from placing himself in the same situation. That
to discharge without giving bail had not been capriciouSly
exercised was shown by the fact that within the last two
years, of all that had been discharged from prison, only 19
had been re-committed.—( Hear, hear.) Then the Noble
Lord really could not expect him to go into all the details
with regard to Mr. Keogh, the high-sheriff for Carlow.
—( Hear.)
resPeet The principle upon which he had acted with
to the appointment of high sheriffs was this—
whenever he found on the list of the judges not three names
theeson perfectly qualified and willing to serve, he filled up
nancy thus left. This was no new experiment—it did
not originate with him. He could show many instances
where it hail occurred since Sir Peel was in Ireland,
anti wnerc it badbeen acted upon under different adunnis-
trations. Sir Robert Peel bad, amongst other practical

improvements, introduced this—of the Sheriff [lauding to
the Judges the names of those who might be his succes-
sors; and by the Judges they were presented to the Exe-
cutive. This was an improvement, but it was not the in-
variable-rule ; or, if intended to be so, it had been imme-
diately departed from. This rule, however, he regarded as
an admirable one, and it was not departed from by him ex-
cept under special circumstances—that was, when the Ex-
ecutive was not left a fair choice, either from the names of
the individuals returned being those of disqualified persons,
or those of persons who, having acted before, could not be
again called upon to serve.—(Hear, hear.) He begged to
he excused for the length of time that he had occupied their
Lordships ; but after the desultory, irregular, and compli-
cated charges that had been preferred, and without being
;dale to declare that he exactly comprehended all the state-
ments of the Noble Marquis, or the inferences meant to be
drawn from them, he hoped he should be excused if, in his
attempt to reply to. the Noble Marquis, he had omitted any
circumstances that he ought to have referred to.—(Hear.)
As to the appointment of Mr. Shell, which had been alluded
to in the early part of the oration of the Noble Marquis,
he wished to say that that appointment had been
considered by the Lord Chancellor, that the whole
of the correspondence had been before the Chan-
cellor, who had consulted with him verbally upon
it, and he most fully assented to it, and he was
ready now to take the whole responsibility of it upon him-
self. He agreed to the appointment of Mr. Sheil as a

magistrate for Westmeath. He could not but say, that
the Noble and Learned Lord had a right to complain that
this charge was not preferred when he was present, when he
could explain it. He was ready now to share in the re-
sponsibility of that Noble and Learned Lord, but he really,
not having the papers, must admit that he had but a very
distant recollection of the circumstances. He apologised
sincerely for addressing them at this length ; but, perhapS,
as that was the last oppoetunity that he should have of
speaking during this Session, he wished to correct two mis-

takes into which the Noble Earl (Lord Glengall) had
fallen the last time he had addressed the House upon this
subject. One of them was an incorrect statement which
the Noble Earl had corrected at the time, but which had,
however, gone forth to the public. The other he should
now refer to. He had been endeavouring to impress upon
their Lordships the success of the scheme of establishing
local prosecutors, under the name of Crown Solicitors, at
the sessions. He had shown what been its success in the
county Tipperary in putting down faction fights, and he
had had the letter of Mr. Hawley to show that such was
the case. The Noble Earl to this said " No"—that such
was not the fact, for that at the last fair at Silver Mines
several lives had been lost. He had now from Mr.
Howley and from the chief constable of the district a
contradiction to that statement. The letter of Mr. How-
ley stated, " With reference to the late fair of Silver Mines,
at which it was said there were public disturbances attended
with loss of life, there was not only his own authority for
declaring that the assertion was not borne out by the fact,
but there was also the letter of Mr. Carroll, the chief con-
stable, who said he had attended at the last fair with a de-
tachment of the constabulary, where he remained until after
seven o'clock, and that no riot had taken place ; that the
constabulary patrolled during the night, and no report was
received by him from the constable in charge of them of
any riot or assault." This was what was stated with respect
to the late fair ; but if the Noble Earl referred to the fair
of the Ist of May, he had shown a little disingenuousness
in referring to that, or it proved his disposition to take a
very gloomy view of the subject. First, a contradiction was
given to Mr. Howley's letter upon a point that had occur-
red after it had been written, and then a fair was not no-
ticed which had occurred but a short time ago, and at which
no disturbance had happened. He understood that some
disturbances bad been going on at the fair of the Ist of
May ; that about thirty persons were engaged in them ; but
no life was lost, nor any person dangerously injured.—
(Hear.) As to the mistake which the Noble Earl had cor-
rected in his speech, it was this—the Noble Earl meant to
have stated that there were 1,500 prisoners in the gaol
of Cionmel in the course of a year, whereas he appeared
to have stated that they were all there at the same
time. As to 1,500 persons being in the gaol in the course
of one year, the inference drawn from it would, he hoped,
be comparative, and not positive. Much would depend
upon the comparison. He wished to call particular atten-
tion to the circumstances of the case. Most of those per-
sens were in prison in the early part of the year 1836. It
was then that the new sessions had come into operation,
and that the prosecutions were made more effectual. But
there was another circumstance to be considered connected
with the state of Tipperary at that time, and which could
not have escaped the Noble Earl's knowledge. The state
of Tipperary was then represented to him to be so very
disturbed that he was called upon to suspend the ordinary
powers of the Constitution. He had in his answer to Lord
Donoughmore declared his determination not to take that
step ; but at the same time he expressed his confidence
that he should be able to produce an alteration in the
state of the county Tipperary by the vigorous application
of the law in the ordinary tribunals.—(Loud cheers.)
The Noble Earl might be assured, whatever political
differences existed between them, that of the intimacy,
he might say friendship, that had been between them
he had a strong recollection ; and he should not complain
if in the course of that Noble Earl's duty, amongst the
other attacks that were thought proper .to be made upon
his Government, in a manner that was somewhat pointed—
he certainly should not complain, when the Noble Earl was
put in possession of that declaration, that he had not ever
alluded to it. But since that declaration had been made,
he appealed, if it were necessary, to the candour of the
Noble Earl, how much must the state of Tipperary have
been changed since that time ?—(Hear.) But it was not
necessary to appeal to the sense of candour of the Noble
Earl ; because the Noble Earl must in consistency admit
that if the state of Tipperary had not improved—if an
effectual stop had not been put to the outrages by a due
administration of the law, by an appeal to the popular con-
fidence in its administration, and by the organisation of the
middle classes of the country in support of the law—if the
country had not been improved by these means, then
where did the blame rest? Not upon those who had tried.
the experiment, but upon those who, seeing that they had
been tried, and having failed, did not join with the Noble
Earl in again calling for the suspension of the Constitu-
tion.; but he must say of them, that sirce he had so re-
plied to them they had never sent to him such a requisi-
tion.—(Cheers.) He had then put it to them, and he had
stated distinctly, that he never would consent to suspend
the Constitution except in a case of necessity.—(Hear,
hear, and cheers.) Perhaps he had said too much in
the course of the debate of the duty of a Peer rising
in his place in Parliament, and making statements which
could not be borne out by the fact ; but what he now
was about to say, upon his own responsibility, as to
the state of Ireland, he would not assert if he did not tho-
roughly believe it himself, and if ho did not know that the
public documents could prove it ; but he did state in the
presence of Noble Lords that, however wretched, however
miserable might be the condition of the unfortunate people
of the country, still he with the utmost confidence declared
that Ireland never was in a state of greater tranquillity
than it was at this moment.—(Loud cheers.) elle stated
this without the fear of contradiction, for there were the
documents to refer to. He had seen the police returns for
the month of June ; he had not them by him, because he
had meant to confine his attention to that alone which the
Noble Marquis had put upon the papers of their Lordships'
House ; but this he could say, from the returns in the
Office of the Police, that the offences committed in the
month of June were one-sixth what they were in the month
of May—( ileac, hear)—and making a certain allowance
for the common assaults, which were not now reported,
he was sure that he was stating within the mark when
he declared, that, comparing the returns, the offences
for the month of June this year were half what they
were in Juno last year.—(Loud cheers.) In addition
to the other evidence of the improved state of the
country, he begged to inform their Lordships that in the
last presentation of the Grand Jury of the county of Louth
it was stated that the police force was unnecessarily strong
—that the number might be diminished. The Noble Mar-
quis had talked of the meeting of the Protestant Associa-
tion at the Mansion-house. He thought he should have
heard no more of that meeting. It certainly had had the
effect of calling forth one of the strongest demonstrations
of confidence in the Government that perhaps any Govern-
ment could boast—a demonstration which was subscribed
to by such an array of individuals of high station and cha-
racter, as he believed never appeared in support of any Go-
vernment before. The Noble Marquis talked of the Go-
vernment being detested by the peaceable portion of the
community, but he thought he had shown that the Noble
Marquis reasoned in so perverted a manner that it was im-
possible to believe that be attached a proper meaning to
what he uttered. The Noble Marquis included in his de-
nunciation the resident population
..of Ireland, the landed
proprietors, the Peers, the resident gentry, and the Parlia-
mentary representatives. It was not to be wondered at that
the Noble Marquis declaimed against the last-named indi-
viduals warmest, as he had told them that he wished Ire-
land to have no representative in Parliament. Let that go
forth, and let the denunciation of himself accompany it.
—(Hear.) He could tell the Noble Marquis that he
had no fear as to the result of this discussion. He had
called their Lordships' attention to what he considered a
fair prospect that affairs were coming to a settlement in
Ireland. He believed that the habits of the poorer classes
were settling—he did not say they were settled—such a
state of things in a country like Ireland was not to be
brought about in a day', but there was a .cousidefable im-
provement. No doubt tranquillity was about to be esta-
blished. Long might that tranon;ilitv continue. and as a
necessary consequence the resources of that fine country
would be gradually developed in the way in which all who

were well-wishers to the country must desire to see them.
Amongst those well-wishers there were none more devoted
than himself.—(Cheers.)
The Earl of RODEN charged the government of the
Noble Earl with the grossest partiality in favour of a par-
ticular party, in proof of which he begged to call the at-
tention of their Lordships to Col. Blacker's case, The
Noble Earl (Radnor) might smile, but he hoped he would
not interrupt him in the course of his observations.
The Earl of RADNOR said he must be allowed to in-
terrupt the Noble Earl by rising to order. He regretted
that the Noble Marquis had introduced this discussion by
referring to matters in his speech which were not given
notice of in the return for which he bad moved. The no-
tice of motion was for particular papers, and the cense.
(pence was that he had irregularly entered into matters to
which that notice did not apply. He conceived their Lord-
ships would be of opinion that the Noble Earl had no right
to enter now into fresh matter. The attention of his Noble
Friend had had not been called by the notice which had
been given to the intention of the Noble Earl to go into
the case of Colonel Blacker.—(Hear.)
The Earl of RODEN was at all times ready to receive
the admonitions of the Noble Earl, but he begged to say
that he was strictly in order, inasmuch as he intended to re-
fer only the case now before their Lordships. What he
was about to show was what had been the conduct of the
Government in the case of Colonel Blacker as compared
with its conduct in that of Sir R. Nagle. Colonel Blacker
was dismissed from the Magistracy because he attended
Orange rlieeting—a meeting which had for its object
the vindication of the laws of the country and the main-
teaance of the prerogatives of the Crown.—( Hear, hear,
hear.) The circumstances, however, havinglbeen inquired
into, it was proved that, so far from having attended
that meeting with any view to countenance it or show his
approval of it, he did everything in his power to induce
the persona assembled to disperse ; and the grand charge
against Colonel Blacker was ultimately reduced, to this,
that Mr. Blacker was present, and carried on that occa-
sion an orange lily in his hand. AR application was con-
sequently made to the Government for Colonel Blacker to
be reinstated ; but up to this hour he had not been. Sr
R. Nagle had experienced very different treatment—he
had been reinstated. What he contended, then, was that
there had been great partiality on the part of the Govern-
ment. As to the statements of the Noble Marquis, which
had been questioned by the Noble Earl, they were founded
it appeared on Parliamentary returns, and he had no
doubt of their accuracy. With regard to the tranquillity
of the country, 290 proclamations appeared in the Ga-
zelle of' last year, and out of them there were seventy-one
which arose out of murder. From the 7th of February to
the 10th of this month, it appeared that eleven murders
had been perpetrated in Ireland. Could it be pretended
that the country was at all tranquil, when it was known
to be a fact that the life assurance offices in this come-
try refused to assure the lives of Irish clergymen ?
Such was the awfully melancholy state in which Ireland
was. They might perhaps boast of the tranquillity of Ire-
land, but what was its nature ? It was easy to talk of
tranquillity when they abstained from putting the laws in
force, when they failed to collect the tithes, and when the
clergymen were starving. The Noble Earl might fancy all
was tranquil enough while he was seated in Dublin Castle,
with every comfort and luxury around him ; but let him
risit the houses of the starving clergy, and then he would
not come to this House with his " cock-and-a-bull" story of
tranquillity.—(Much laughter.) He was sorry to see the
Noble Lords opposite make this a subject of merriment.
The Noble Lord then referred to some proclamations in
which certain offences .were stated to have been committed
by persons who were Members of the Orange Association.
He begged to‘ask the Noble Earl in what instances he had
described in proclamations any persons who had committed
offences as having belonged to the National Association ?
He challenged the Noble Earl to quote a single case of the
kind. He could not produce one. Here, then, again he
charged the Government with having acted with grass par-
tiality. He begged to call their Lordship's attention to
the description of language used by the Irish agitators. The
leader of that body, at a dinner at Carlow said, " I am the
last man to recommend the shedding of a drop of blood ; but
we have tried every means to get our rights—to obtainjus-
tice for Ireland—and we have failed. We have no means
leg untried but the shedding of blood. Blood, then, must
be shed. My reason for saying so is to prevent the shedding
of blood ; for, if your enemies get into power they will shed
your blood." He was told that officers of the present Go-
vernm,uit were present at this dinner, and he was anxious
to know from the Noble Earl whether he had ever received
from Mr. Vignoles, the chief Constable, who was one of
the Government officers in attendance, a statement or ally
such language having been used ? He was, indeed, the
more anxious on this subject., because the individual to
whom such language was imputed was entertained by the
Noble Earl as a guest at her Majesty's castle in Dublin.
He considered it a great dereliction of public duty for a
person who made use of such language to be received at
the table, not of the Earl of Mulgrave, but of the Lord
Lieutenant of Ireland. Such an act was very likely to
prove prejudicial to the peace of the country. The great
majority of the resident gentry in Ireland agreed wil h him
in siring that the Government was conducted in an
exceedingly partial manner. As the measure of 1809
was passed—that measure which he believed would
prove ultemately the destruction of the countre—he
did not, object to Roman Catholics being put into Oiie
under the Government when the Noble Earl thouehti reos per to place them there ; but he did object to Cath6o.lic 12cgr:--
tators being appointed to those offices which should' b‘.
filled by men of peace. He desired nothing but the benefitt
of the Roman Catholic people ; but as to their reli'
that was another thing, and he had sworn in that House
that he detested and abhorred it. He hoped that the Noble
Earl would turn over a new leaf, and consider what was due
to the Protestant gentry of the country. All they asked
was fair play. All they requited of the Noble Earl was
tkat he should show them that his object was to carry on
his Government with fairness and impartiality.
The Earl of GLENG ALL said the real fact of the case
as to the boasted increase of tranquillity in Ireland would
best appear from a statement he held in his hand of the dif-
ference in the number of cornmittale to the county gaol of
Tipperary in the years 1835 and 18313. This saute,
I-lent
was to the following effect

Comniittals.
1835. 1836.
Affray 762 ... 1,233
Assault
Rescue
Grievous assault or bodily harm 338 ... 859
Forcible posveslion lO7 ... 262
Larceny

Offea—ces.

Grand total 3,326 5409
The convictions for these crimes were, in 1835, 407 ; in
1836, 842. It thus appeared that in one county alone the
number of committals in 1836 was almost double the num-
ber of committals in 1835.—(Hear, hear.) He would beg
to ask, too, bow it was that if tranquillity had increased,
net fewer than twenty-three new stipendiary Magistrates
had been appointed in Ireland since the passing of the
Constabulary Act ? Either this augmentation of Magis-
trates, at a yearly expense of 12,0001., was necessary ;
and then what became of the boasted tranquillity ? or it
was unnecessary, and then what was the affair but a job ? •
The Noble Earl concluded by observing that he had enter-
tained a warm fi:iendship for the Noble Earl opposite ; but
he had deemed it due to himself to absent himself from the
Castle when he found that the presence there was courted
of the man who had uttered that most horrible and dread-
ful, that most ferocious speech delivered at the Carlow din-
ner, in vituperation of the departed and deservedly-be-
loved Mr. Kavanagh.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord BROUGHAM was not aware whether the Noble
E irl near him proposed to make any further reply to the
fresh volume of attack just poured out against him ; but
whether or no, he (Lord Brougham) must first beg to say
a few words in reference to the perfectly unparalleled pro-
ceedings of that evening.—(Hear, hear.) He bad often
before in that House had occasion to remark, that of all the
places of discussion or debate he was ever present- at, he
had never seen one more irregular in its proceedings than
their Lordships ; but he really thought that on the present
occasion their Lordships bad exceeded all their forther out-
doings, and had performed the extraordinary feat of sur-
passing themselves.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) In the
first place, there was the Noble Marquis's notice on the
order-book of " moving for copies of certain correspondence
between him and the Lord-Lieutenant's secretary as to
two magistrates in Ireland." Upon the strength of this
notice, the Noble Marquis had risen in his place and
made a tremendously long speech, comprehending attacks
on the Lord-Lieutenant, on every passage of his two and
a half years' government of Ireland—the affair of the
two Magistrates among the rest—and introducing, in
the completest way, all the attacks, all the abuse, all
the slander, all the calumny which had been showered
upon the Noble Lord from the time he accepted his
Government in May, 1835, down to the present time.—
(Hear, hear.) No doubt the Noble Marquis's own belief
in the truth of these oft-repeated slanders was entire:; but
this was not the case with those who had furnished the
Noble Marquis with his materials for the speech of that
evening. How often again was it to be shown beyond dis-
pute that, in reference to one of the gravest of these charges,
the release of a man condemned to death on the day named
for his execution—how often was it to be proved.that this
man's release was on the strong recommendation of the
judge who had tried the case, and who had reason to be-
lieve the grounds on which the conviction took place to be
altogether incorrect ? Yet this was but a specimen of the
attacks mall on the Noble Earl—of the charges which
‘vere made only, as it would almost seem, to he repeated.
Yet, after the *Noble Marquis's long and detailed crimination
of the Noble Earl, what did his speech end in ? In the pro-

position of a vote of censure—of a call for the Noble Earl's
dismissal ? No ; but in the motion for a return of the corre-
spondence between the Lord Lieutenant's secretary and the
Noble Marquis as to these two magistrates. After the
Noble Marquis's attack came the Noble Earl's defence,
which one would have imagined perfectly satisfactory and
conclusive. Bat no—the Noble Earl resuming his scat,
up started the Noble Earl opposite, with a demand that
the Noble Earl should proceed to answer his long speech
of March last ; and as the Lord-Lieutenant might natu-
rally be supposed not to recollect tha speech in question,
the Noble Earl produces his notes of it, and proceeded to
go over it again.
The Earl of RODEN said he had produced no notes.
Lord BROUGHAM went on to say that he begged the
Noble Earl's pardon for the poor compliment he had paid
his memory on the subject, but he bad taken the small Fis-
ricrillls referred to so often by the Noble Earl in the course •
of his speech as containing the notes of the speech alluded
to. However, the Noble Earl, whether with or without
notes, went over the heads of his speech of March last,
and insisted upon a reply thereto from the Noble Lord-
Lieutenant, although the Noble Earl's speech had been
already fully answered by anticipation in the Lord-Lieu-
tenant's speech which preceded it.—(llear.) That Noble
Earl had shown by the clearest facts how great was the
traquillity of Ireland at the present moment ; but the No-
ble Earl opposite was not contented with this. He would

• have a full explanation of the state of things in February
last ; and then came another Noble Earl on the opposite
side, who improved upon the point by removing the inquiry
hack to 1835. But what was the point necessary to be
ettablished? Why, that which had been already that even-
ing so incontrovertibly shown by the Noble Earl in the
fact that in June this year the amount of offences in Ire-
land was less by one-half than in June last year. But, then,
said another Noble Lord opposite, Ah! but here are
twenty-three new stipendiary Magistrates : if these are
wanted, where is your tranquillity ? If they are not wanted,
how shameful a job !" The Noble Lord appeared to
imagine that means were unnecessary to an end.—( Hear,
hear.) The Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, however, thought
differently. He had conceived that with a judicious system
of lenity, with an appeal to the good feelings, to the hearts
of the people, with a wish to make his Government popular,
it was necessary to exhibit a firm determination to see the
laws executed, and to provide sufficient means for fulfilling
that object in the completest way. This object could not be
completed without the proclamations, or without the aug-
mented magistracy, both of which had been made matters of
complaint by Noble Lords opposite. The Noble Earl talked
of the proclamation issued on the day previous to the Orange
festival, as though it were a partial and arbitrary exercise
of tyranny, affecting, and intending to affect, only that part
of the people who were Orangemen ; whereas it was nothing
but a general statement of the law as it affected the whole
population of the country in all days of the year. Then,
again, the charge against the Lord Lieutenant as to Sir
R. Nagle seemed, after all, to resolve itself into this—
that having restored this gentleman to the Magistracy,
the Lord Lieutenant had not also restored Col. Blacker, a
gentleman on the other side of the question, who had been
dismissed the Magistracy ; but what analogy had been
shown between the cases ? The circumstances might, for
all that appeared, be totally different ; yet it-was set forth
that simply because Sir It. Nagle had been reinstated, so
should be Colonel Blacker, or else no end to the attacks
on the Lord Lieutenant,—(Hear, hear.) The Noble and
Learned Lord concluded by observing, that as there were
on the order book several notices of motions, the discussions
on which might be expected to have some connection with
the terms of the notice, and quite enough to occupy the re-
mainder of the Session, he should beg to submit to the
House that the explanations given that evening had been
quite enough to elucidate satisfactorily the points brought
directly and incidentally under their notice. He trusted
that this evening might close the irregularities of the session.
Tim Earl of MULGRAVE, after expressing his thanks
to the Noble and Learned Lord for time masterly manner
in which he had treated the subject, proceeded to observe
that it was somewhat inconsistent in the Noble Earl oppo-
site who inveighed against the number of proclamations is-
sued by the executive Government of Ireland, to charge
him in the same breath with not vindicating the laws. It
was precisely by the issuing of proclamations that he did
vindicate the laws.---(Hear, hear.) With regard to the
question asked him by Noble Lords as to the speech said to
have been delivered by Mr. O'Connell at Carlow, he would
only reply that he had directed inquiries to be made into
the subject, and he had ascertained that the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman denied that he had used the expres-
sions imputed to him ; and several persons present at the
electing, denied that any such language as was reported
lied been uttered there. He thought that one of the best
reasons for disbelieving that such language had been used
by Mr. O'Connell as had been used by the Noble Earl
was, that it was such arrant. nonsense. As to the number
of commitments and convictions, he would only say that
the number was certainly greater in 183 G than 183.5. Aey
returns, however, calculated to give information as to the
state of crime in Ireland, he should be happy to lay on the
table. With respect to the stipendiary Magistrates, he
was perfectly prepared to justify all the appointments that
ban taken place in Ireland. As to what the Noble Earl
had said with respect to the deserted state of the levees at
Dublin Castle, he (Lord Mulgrave) would only say that
he should be happy to see the Noble Lord at his levees,
but he felt hound to observe that he did not perceive that
want of society at them which had been so strongly de-
scribed by the Noble Earl. At the same time he felt
bound to say that he would not purchase the presence of
any persons at his levees by excluding other gentlemen.
Ile was perfectly ready to admit that Mr. O'Connell had
dined with him on three occasions. That gentleman, as
well as other Irish Members of Parliament, attended his
levees, and it wee customery on such occasions to invite
th. mto dine at the Castle. It so happened, however,
that he had seen less of Mr.O'Connell than other Members
of the House of Commons. With respect to the proclama-
tion referring to houses which had been pillaged, and which
were described as belonging to Raman Catholics, he ad-
mitted that it was an imprope.; and invidious distinction
to draw, but it arose from an inadvertence. It arose,
however, out of a proceeding that took place while the
Noble Earl (Haddington) opposite was Lord-Lieutenant
of Ireland. It appeared that the inspector of police, Sir
F. Stovin, was ordered to make a return of offenders,
disthiguiehing between Catholics and Protestants. The
tames out of this police return were afterwards inadver-
tently copied into the proclamation. He would take care
that such a proceeding should never occur again.
The Earl of 11 ADDINGTON was sure that. the
Noble Earl would not be surprised if he, at the spur of
the moment did not, did not recollect the circumstance
just referred to by the Noble Earl ; but he could assure
the House that he never, with his knowledge, would have
sanctioned the making such a distinction between different
classes of the people of Ireland as had been referred to
by the Noble Earl, by describing crimes of a particular
class as being committed by Catholics or Protestants in
particular. He thought that such a practice would be
attended with the very worst consequences in Ireland.
The Earl of MULGRAVE did not intend to make any
attack on the Noble Earl, as he was aware that the dis-
tinction was made by inadvertently copying the descrip-
tion drawn in the police report into the proclamation.
The Duke of WELLINGTON thought that it was
desirable_ that the debates in that- House should be con-
fined as much as possible:to the subject matter appointed
tsfrftt
,olari:e.::tada:mi.ti.stanaceuetiguesldisemi,
isnai ineeot
attending
arise.
tei
gentleman
tatwfi
inolaid:rnt:f
ani) attendingiiyidliottaitntldbio:rileteieebaelsnel:pplieoebieleretet
goao,d‘ta,
made
the
remindingi
nft althoughrh
motion,i principle
appearedc o ii fu •
reinstatedot
timlheairtthe
is
oonttruilici;eesgelicnisilaltpi s
t(sY)eoi
the tranquillity of Ireland. II e believed at the same time
that such statements were founded on reports from the
Lord-Lieutenants, and yet it appeared from the decla-
ration made that night by the Noble Earl that the state
of crime in the early part of 1839 was nearly double
what it had been at the same period of 1835, and
rime particularly so in the county of Tipperary.—
( Hear.) The language at the commencement of 1837
was nearly the same as to the state of tranquillity, and ex-
pressions to this effect were inserted in his Majesty's speech
front the House. When t 1 is subject was under discussion
three or four months ago, he said, in reference to the state
of crime, that he thought the statement in the King's speech
wlas erroneous. Since then he had turned his attention to
the subject, and was by no means satisfied as to the returns.
He on the former occasion read an extract from a charge
delivered by Baron Foster to the Grand Jury of Tipperary,
at the Spring Assizes of 1837, in which he stated that 930
were confined in the gaol on different charges. It appeared
to him that Ireland could not be in a state of great tran-
quillity, unless there had been a great change in the period
between the Spring Assizes in April and the end of June.
He hoped, however, that it would turn out that the Noble
Earl was right, and that he was wrong, in the view he had
taken of the matter.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE would not follow the
example of Noble Lords opposite, and thereby expose him-1
self to the just censure of his Noble and Learned Friend,
by bringing in extraneous matters. The Noble Duke re-
ferred to a speech from the Throne, in which allusion seas
male to the tranquil state of Ireland. This speech the
Noble Lord should recollect was founded on documents
which were prepared months before the statements referred
-to by his Noble Friend, and the then state of the country
completely bore out the declaration in his Majesty's speech. I
The Noble Duke had again alluded to the number of per-
sons, acceeding to the statement of Baron' Foster, in the
county gaol of Tipperary at time period of the Spring As-
sizes of the present year ; but the Noble Duke should have
recollected the answer made to him on the former occa-

DALKEITH CORN MARKET.
wheat. Barley. Oars.
62g Od I 3;s 61 27s 44
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—July 6.
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ARISTOCRATIC OUTRAGES.---Tie following let-
ter has been sent to the Morning Post from Lord William
Bctesford, contradicting the statement which appeared in yes-
terday's papers of his being a party to the outrages in Museum-
street on Friday night:—" NVindsor, July 10.— Sir, in your
police report to-day under the bead of Bow-street,' I observe
that my name has been mentioned in a disturbance with other
pes.sons in Museum-street. I beg you will contradict the state-
ment, as it is utterly false with regard to me, and that in future
you will not take such liberties with my name. W. BF.RESFORD."
CIRCA SSIA.—" The public interest respecting Cir-
eatsia will shortly be heightened by the appearance of a work
from the pen of Mr. Spencer, who lately published an ac-
count of his Travels in Germany. Mr. Spencer visited Cir-
cassia in company with Count \Voronzow, the Governor of
Southern Russia. His work is on the eve of publication, and
its appearance at this interesting juncture in the position of the
two belligerent powers, cannot fail to throw light upon a ques-
tion which interests the -literary and scientific not less than the,
political world."—Foreign Quarterly Review.—[we under-
stand that Mr. Spencer's work is published this day by Mr.
Colburn, of Great Marlborough-street.]

FROM LAST NIGHT'S GAZETTE.

WAR-OFFICE, Jut.Y 11.

7th Regiment of Dragoon Guards—Quartermaster H. Higgins,
from the 31 Regiment of Light Dragoons, to be Quartermaster, vice
Adams, who exchanges, July 10.
3d Regiment of Light Dragoons—Lieut. R. B. Hale to be Cap-
tain by purchase, vice Phillips who retires ; Cornet R. A. Moore
to be Lieutenant, by purchase, vice Hale; H. Wood; Gent., to be
Cornet, by purchase, July 10; Edmund Ro?hc, Gent., to be
Corrnet, by purchase, vice Ralston, who retires, July 11 ;
H. Hollingworth, Gent., to be Cornet, by purchase, vice Moore,
July 12; Quartermaster T. Adams, from the 7th Dragoon Guards,
to be Quartermaster, vice Higgins, who exchanges, July 10 ; Ser-
jeant-Major L--- Sullivan, to be Adjutant (with the rank of
Cornet), vice Jones, who resigns the Adjutantcy only, July 9.
4th Regiment of" Foot—Brevet Colonel G. Gorrcquer, from
hal.'-pay Unattached, to be Lieutenant-Colonel, vice England, ap-
pointed to the 41st Regiment of Foot, July 10 ; rilajor J. England
to be Lieutenant-Colonel, by purchase, vice Gorrequer, who re-
tires ; Captain H. H. Irving to be Major, without purchase, vice
England; Lieutenant J. Espinas e to be Captain, vice Irving ;
Quartermaster J. Potter to be Adjutant and Ensign, vice Espi-
nasse ; Serjcant-Major S. Sexton to be Quartermaster, vice Pot-
ter, appointed Adjutant, July 11.
9th Foot—Brevet Colonel Sir E. K. Willia•ns, K.C.8., from
the 41st Regiment of Foot, to be Lieutenant-colonel, vice Cut-
tance, appointed to the 10th Regiment of Foot, July 10.
10th loot—Lieut.-Colonel 11. Custance, from tbs.' 9th Regiment
of Foot, to be Lieut.-Colonel, vice W. Cochrane, who retires upon
half-pay, July 10.
11th Foot—Lieut. J. Forbes, from the half-pay Unat.tached, to
be Lieutenant, vice H. O'Neill, who exchanges, receiving the dif-
ference, July 11.
28th Foot—Gentleman Cadet W. G. Cormick, from the Royal
Military College, to be Ensign, by purchase, vice Swift, who
retires, July 10. .
41st Foot—Lieut.-Col. R. England, from the 4th Regiment of
Foot, to be Lieutenant-Colonel, vice Sir E. K. Williams, ap-
pointed to the 9th Regiment of Foot, July 10 ; Major W. Booth
to be Lieutenant-Colonel, without purchase. vice Purden, de-
ceased; Capt. J. F. May to be Major, vice Booth ; Lieut. J. G.
Bedingfield to be Captain, vice May; Ensign J. Diddep to be
Lieutenant, vice Bedingfield; C. A. Morshead, Gent., to be En-
sign, vice Diddep, July I I.
75th Foot—Capt. S. M. Francis Hall to be Major, by purchase,
vice Grieve, promoted; Lieut. G. B. Moultrie to be Captain, by
purchase, rice Hall ; Ensign J. H. Cox to be Lieutenant, by pur-
chase, vice Moultrie ; G. Lockwood, Gent., to be Ensign, by pur-
chase, vice Cox, July 11.
UNATTACHED.

Ensign J. Forbes, from the 91st Regiment of Foot, to be Lieu-
tenant, by purchase, July 10.
BREVET.

Tu be Majors in the Army—Capt. W. F. Chetwynd, of the Ist
Regiment of Life Guards ; Capt. G. G. Palmer. of the Royal
Artillery ; Captain Lord W. Butler, of the Scots Fusilier Guards,
July 11.