The Sun.
London, England, 1863-07-07 00:00:00

Mr. LAYARD said he felt no misgivings with regard to
the policy of her Majesty's Government in China, Looking
at the small number of hon. members then present, and re-
collecting how few were present on a former occasion, he
was at a loss to understand how China could be considered
an important question in that house. If our policy in China
was so bad as it had been described by the noble lord the
Government were deserving of the severest censure, and he
was surprised the noble lord had not concluded with a mo-
tion condemnatory of their conduct. The policy of her
Majesty's Government had been to treat China as a civilized
country, and not like Russia, to consider her as a barbarous
empire; and it was therefore wrong to make her Majesty's
Government answerable for the misgoings of France and
Russia, During the last two or three years our policy in
China had changed. Not that the home Government had
changed in their views, but circumstances had greatly
altered, so as to render a change necessary. For-
merly we dealt with the local authorities, but now we had
access to the Central Government. Since the Treaty of
Tientsin, which was ratified at Pekin, we had had a Minis-
ter at the latter place, and the result had justified the im-
portance of having a Minister there; for, instead of desul-
tory negotiations with subordinates, who often deceived the
Chinese Government, we had direct communication with
the latter. and instead of exchange of short notes passed
between the respective authorities, and the Chinese were be-
ginning to see the necessity of keeping their treaty obliga-
tions. We had had two objects in view : first, to strengthen
the Chinese Government, as the best means of restoring
tranquillity there; and, secondly, the necessity of their ob-
serving treaty obligation with all nations ; to accomplish
which it had been necessary for us to support a liberal party
in that country. Sir F. Bruce had had great difficulties to
contend with in China, and more especially from those who
ought to have supported her Majesty's Government in that
country. Sir F. Bruce had sketched out a policy of conci-
liation, and in that her Majesty's Government entirely con-
curred. No doubt many things in connection with China
were open to criticism ; but on the whole our policy had
been a just one, and had been most consistent with the in-
terests of this country and China. The real cause of our
difficulties in China did not arise from the Tartar element,
which had been the cause of that chronic anarchy that had
existed so long in that country. Sir F. Bruce, in the first
instance, had to disabuse the Chinese mind of the prejudice
they entertained that we dealt with them in too high-minded
a manner, and that we had a desire to cheat them. He first
obtained a concession from the Chinese for the opening of
the carrying trade between the north and south of China,
and then the opening of the Yang-tse-Kiang. Those two
concessions had been obtained without going to war, at an
expense of perhaps a million of money, and so far from our
being at war with China, we were never so far from it as at
that moment, and all that we were now doing was to assist
them in establishing a system of good government. They
defended the treaty ports, because of the enormous mass
of British property that was concentrated there. If the
Taepings got hold of them, the property would very soon
be destroyed. Captain Sherard Osborn and his brother
officers were no doubt still subjects of the British Crown;
but, inasmuch as they were under the command of the
Chinese Government, they were not responsible to the Eng-
lish Government. But, on the other hand, what had been the
effect of the creation of this new force? Why, it enabled
them rapidly to reduce the number of British troops em-
ployed in China. In 1860 there were 21,000 British troops
in China ; now there were little more than 4,000. The 30
miles radius round Shanghai was maintained entirely upon
the advice of military men, and as a defensive precaution.
It was the universal opinion of all persons connected with
China, whether as agents of our Government, as merchants,
or missionaries, that the Taepings were plunderers, and
nothing else. They were asked, why not allow the Taepings
to take possession of the ports, as they would not injure our
trade ? but that was not the opinion of the merchants, and
they showed that such was their opinion when Shanghai was
threatened by the Taepings. The fleet that had been orga-
nised under the command of Capt. Osborn was intended to
put down piracy, and piracy alone. By the treaty the Chinese
Government pledged themselves to put down piracy, and if
they did not do it the English authorities were allowed to
• do it ; indeed, the whole otject of maintaining so large a
fleet in the Chinese seas was for the suppression of piracy.
With respect to the appointment of foreigners as superin-
tendents of customs at the treaty ports, it was true that that
arrangement led to a great outcry; but that was very natu-
ral, because, up to then, foreign merchants were in the
habit of ea ading the payment of customs duties altogether.
It was, however, equally a fact that the customs revenue of
China had since their appointment increased enormously,
and they had the testimony of some of the leading merchants
to the great boon conferred upon British trade by the esta-
blishment of a well-defined system of custom- house regu-
lations. The next difficulty was that of dealing with Bri-
tish subjects in China. It was these parties who were con-
stantly endeavouring to thwart the policy of Sir F. Bruce, and
it was they who sent letters and requests to hon. members
to get up opposition to her Majesty's Government in that
house. It was hardly possible for Sir F. Bruce to convince
the Chinese that this country was desirous of acting in good
faith, when the British subjects resident there committed
acts in direct violation of the treaty. (Hear, hear.) These
parties at one time took possession of land, and refused to
give it up; at another they committed acts of smuggling/
and called on her Majesty's Government to support them in
violation of the treaty. He believed he had shown that the
policy of the Government was a just and wise policy;
that it was a policy tending to peace, and not war ; and that
the prospect of a war With China was never more remote
than at present. What was it that hen, members opposite
desired to see done Did they want to have the officers of
customs withdrawn, and that no English officers should
be employed in disciplining the Chinese troops ? The
noble lord spoke of Sir F. Bruce as becoming Prime
Minister in China; but that was not a correct statement
of the facts. Sir F. Bruce had colleagues at Pekin, and he
had the sanction and concurrence of the French and Ame-
rican Ministers. The noble lord had referred to Dr. Legge,
ad ual
ly break-
ing
He had great respect for Dr. Legge as a literary man ; and
ho could only say, that by the system they were now pur-
suing they were getting rid of the class of " braves" alluded
to:by Dr. Legge•
farth that
tr otmh et
rebellion
libeinga n was a gradually
arebellion in China
w
and any necessity for sending out 50,000 men to suppress
it, they were actually reducing the force in China. His
o wn
up, e() nevni cd t it o
hna t
one
great step towards its entire suppres-
sion was that of having the Chinese troops officered by
Englishmen. There was no analogy between their position
in India and their position in China. They had from a small
beginning acquired the entire possession of India, whereas
they did not want anything in China but to strengthen
the rule of the Chinese Government, and enable them to put
down dis order. The noble lord, like the hon. and gallant
member for Aberdeen, fell into the mistake that the
country which had been overrun by the Taepings was actu-
ally in their possession. This was not the fact. When they
took the spoils they departed to another part of the country,
and the only city which appeared to be permanently pos-
sessed by them was Nankin; and even this was represented
as a deserted city," for no attempt was made to revive
trade there. He believed that when Nankin was taken the
rebellion would die out. With regard to the opinion of Lord
Russell, upon which so much stress was laid, it was neces-
sary to remark that at the time the speech was made the
rebellion was at its height,
and the Chinese troops were en-
tirely unorganised. Now, however, circumstances had
wholly changed, and it was the opinion of Sir F. Bruce that
the rebellion would fall with the fall of Nankin. (Hear,
hear.) He might be over-sanguine, but he thought he fore •
saw a time of restored peace and tranquility, when the people
would again return to the pursuits of agriculture and in-
dustry, when the canals would be covered with boats, when
new markets would be open to British trade, and when it
would be said that the policy of her Majesty's Government
had contributed to the general interests of humanity, as
well as the particular interests of this country. (Cheers.)
Mr. F. FITZGERALD said the house had heard two
long and instructive speeches that evening upon China, and
he thought he might claim for his noble friend that he had
presented the entire question to them with great force and
lucidity. (Hear, hear.) The speech of the lion gentleman
must have been also interesting, and it was a remarkable
instance to show how a man might make a very good speech
without replying to one of the points which had been urged
against a particular course of policy. The hon. member
then referred to the language of Consul Meadows and other
English officials in China,and contended that it was not the
language of neutrality, but one highly inimical to the Tae-
pings. The right hon. gentleman then referred to the rapid
increase of Russian influence in the China seas and sur-
rounding territory, and condemned the policy of her Ma-
jesty's Government throughout, as hurtful both to our com-
mercial and political standing in that country. •
• Lord PALMERSTON said he had listened with great
attention to the very long and able speech of the noble lord
who began the discussion, but he was still at a loss to dis-
cover the source of the censure which the noble lord had
stated he was prepared to pass upon her Majesty's Govern-
ment. (Hear.) He confessed it seemed to him something
new to hear from that aide of the house enthusiastic praise
of the rebels in China ; to be told that rebellion was a sacred
institution, and that it Was an interference contrary to our
duty as a nation to support the Imperial dynasty. (Hear.)
In the case of Italy, would the noble lord and the right hon.
gentleman be prepared to show the same sympathy to those
who had cast off their allegiance as they did for the Tae-
pings? (Hear.) He
one policy for one country and another for the other, The