The Sun.
London, England, 1801-06-06 00:00:00

Country. No damages that could be awarded Would replace
these unfortunate men to the same rank in society which they
formerly held ; but to shut the door against their attempting,
this, :would be to do a harsh act.---Mr. 11 zarwe then' pro-
ceeded to condemn the mode of electing the Secret Comnnt-
tee by Ballot, according to the Treasury List ; he was sure
the House would not think that a Committee so constituted
was a proper substitute for a Trial by Jury., The Commit.
tee had acted bn. the InforMation given them by Informers,
whilst the whole of their justification
.might turn. upon the
single fad who these Inionners- were. But if the persons
who had been arrested were allowed to be put upon their de-
fenee,
.they •enight have skewed that these informers were
actuated by Malice, or some improper motives. He would.
not charge the late Ministry with the wanton cruelties that
had been exercised on the arrested, but he charged them with
presuming that the men were . uilty in the first instance, and
putting them' in situations where they had experienced acts
of cruelty, whilst the shield of proteCtiofa. held up for them-
selves by this Bill would be accompanied with the ruin of
these Unfortunate men.
Mr: IV. SMITH charged the arguments, adduced -by the
Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. WINDHAM) with sophistries
and rash conclusions; and had the Hon. Gentlemen taken the
other side of the question, he (Mr. W.) could with 'perfect
ease have confuted the leading arguments Of his own speeCh.
With resped to the formation of the Secret Committee, the,
Right Hen. Gentleman had confounded the means by which
the Committee might be chosen, with the numerical compu-
tation of 21 with 658. He had also confounded Laws with
Principles of Law : and with resped to Spies and Informers,
the Right Hon.-Gentleman ought to have refleeted that their
use 'had at all times been discuse;ry of crimes, and not the
punishment of those who were chargeable with them. He
was not against using means of gaining secret information,
but-when in conseqttence thereof, men were taken up and
punished withelose imprisonment for three years—a .punish-
ment, in his opinion, worse then death—this was a eunish-
ment that could not be assigned as the proper use of Spies.
With resped to'the Hon. arid Learned Gentleman (the A-r-
-e o aye y GeN Lw.) ha wikhed that Gentleman would fol-
low up in practice what he stated in theory,- namely, that
the State ought to indemnify those who were deprived of the
nicans of justification. _ln the present instance there were
two partie,, and it was hard that the rich and powerful
should be indemnified, whilst the Bill would destroy. all
possibility of indemnification to those who would be depnved,
at any future period, of an opportunity of justifying their
own character before. the Public, and endeavouring td obtain
some retribution. Unless the Bill fixed sonic specific period,
(as the end of the War) until which time those persons should
not be suttered to bring actions for damages, without some
such limitation, he must say no Bill ever passed More unjust.
Sir IV. PULTENE). thought it would be very impolitic to
sutler those persons to.bring iorward such adtions at present, as
the Defendants would in that case be forced to produce their
e means of information ;' but he aveid with the Hon: Gentle-
man (Mr. Sri re it) in thinking this difficulty might be avoided
by limiting the period when such actions might be brought.
Tho SOLCITOR-GENERAL answered this suggestion,
br requesting the Hon. Baronet to recoiled, that at the ex-
piration of a future time the means of defence might be cut
otr,.by the death of Witnesses.. Upon this ground. it was
that the Law limited an Action for false imprisonment to the
period of four years. He'begged the lion. Gentleman (Mr.
SM i T ii) to recollect, that if in consequence of any information
to. warrant a commitment by a Magistrate, the Magistrate
would be justified, and no action could be brought. by the
person arrested, nor could the Plaintiff in this case have the
opportunity of clearing his eharader, and even if it could be
-proved that. the Magistrate or Secretary •of State . had. been
imposed upon by his Inforther, no charge could be brought
against the Magistrate for the commitment. -The Sot: el-
TOK.G EN l'At AI. then proceeded at some length (but which
our limits will. not permit us to give in detail; to defend the
labours of the Committee, and to charge upon Opposition a
credulity in believing every insinuation against Ministers,
and being equallseinctedulous every thing that respected
'Treason anti Plots, and the Report of the Committee. He
condemned the mode suggested by an Hon: Gentleman (Mr.
EN.N Iv) to suttee the matter in the first instance to go to a.
Jury, and then, if damages were given, to suffer Ministers to
come to Parliament for a Bill of Indemnity. - The measure
proposed stood sufficiently-strong on its own ground, but if
it need any additional support, the current of Precedent was
also greatly in favour of it. It was a measure intimately con-
-steeled with the Public Safety. .
Mr. Tx xiteiry explained. •
A Division being loudly called-for, the House divided--
For the SPEAIZIAt'S leaving the Chair -37 z.
Against - - • - • 38