The Sun.
London, England, 1837-05-22 00:00:00

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.

Lord JOHN* RUS SE L L, before moving the Order of the
Day, begged to state to the House the course he intended to
pursue. He proposed to-morrow, or soon as possible, to continue
the Committee on the Irish Poor-law Bill. Very probably that
Committee would not be concluded before Friday next, and in
that case the Budget would not be brought on on that day.
After the Committee was concluded he proposed to have the
Bill reprinted, and then to fix the third reading for some.
future day. With respect to the Irish Tithe -Bill,
the second reading of which was fixed for the 9th of June,
he intended on the next Order Day afterwards to go into Com-
mittee on that Bill.

• In answer to a question from an Hon. Member the Noble
Lord stated that it would perhaps be necessary for the House
to sit on Wednesday next.
Mr. SHAW asked what was the intention of the Noble
Lord with respect to the Bills for the amendment of the
Criminal Law ? .

Lord JOHN RUSSELL intended that they should go
into Committtee, pro forma, and have the Bills printed be-
fore their further consideration.
CHURCH-RATES.

Mr. BERNAL then brought up the report of the Com-
mittee on the Church-rates Bill.

The Report having been read by the Clerk at the table,
Mr. A. JOIINSTONE rose to address the House. Ile
could not agree to the resolution proposed by Government, inas-
much as by it a fund was to be raised for the purpose of supplying
the deficiency that would be occasioned by the abolition of the
Church-rate, in a manner that would be highly detrimental to
the Church itself, especially as he ( Mr. J.) was of opinicn
that the arr. °ant required might be raised in a manner
that would not be detrimental to any party. The House
had been called upon to support the Government measure,
because the Dissenters had declared themselves unwilling any
longer to pay Church-rates. No man was more willing than he
Vt a; to give due weight to the religious scruples of his Dissenting
fellow subjects, but he could not sec how a Church Establish-
ment was to be supported if so great a concession were made.
It had been said this measure was a healing measure, and
that it would give peace to the country. Concession did not
always give peace—( Hear, hear)—on the contrary, he believed
such concession would lead to greater agitation.—( Cheers. )
He would ask the Hon. Members for Leeds and Boston
whether they thought this a healing measure, a ad if this would
make peace between the Dissenters and the Church with re-
gard to the great questions that were agitated. The
Dissenters had told them they would not be satisfied
till they obtained their favourite proposition, the separation of
the Church from :the State.—(No, no, from Mr. Baines, and
vehement cheering from the opposition.)
111 r. B A INE S rose and continued on his legs for severe'
seconds, amidst loud cries of order, order, from the Opposition
Benches.

The SPEAKER said that if the Hon. Member for Leeds
thought the Hon. Member for St. Andrews had something
that was inconsistent with the orders of the House, he might
then interrupt him.
Mr. A. JOHNSTONE resumed. In Scotland two-thirds
of the Landholders were Episcopalian Dissenters and they
paid the Church-rate without a murmur, because they
consider they were under great obligations to the Church.
It appeared to him that the people of Scotland might be di-
vided into three classes—those able and willing to pay for re-
ligious instruction, those unable to do so, and those who were
well able, but were unwilling to do so.—( Hear, hear,
hear.) One of the great objects of a Church Establishment
should be to provide for the spiritual wants of the people, and
he would contend that until the wants of the destitute poer
were provided for, however they might increase their army
and police, and however they might legislate
respect to prison discipline, they could not expect
permanent tranquillity or prosper ty. They must elevate the
moral character of the people, or all their efforts would
be vain. The • I-fun. Member here referred to the staters e its
of M. Guizot, Minister of Public Instruction in France.
relation to the demoralization existing among the lower classes
of that country, and argued from it the necessity that existed
for attending more clo:iely to the moral and religious instrue
flea of thepeopie. _

He grieved that no remedy had been pointed out for the great
evils to which he had adverted, and Ministers had held out no

hope that that evil would be remedied if the measures
proposed by them were passed.—( Hear, bear.) He
trusted the house would agree to his amennment, as by
of
it no injury could be done to any party, and the property
the Church would be fixed upon a sound basis.—(Cheers.)
The Hon. Member concluded by moving his amendment.
Mr. BA iNE S wished to know upon what authority the Hon.
for Inverness had found his assertion, that the Dissenters were
determined that the Church and State should be separated.
He believed the Hod. Member had made that assertios un-
willingly.—( )He had no doubt that there were
many Dissenters ,•'ho were desirous of having than'
Union. separated, but that there was no such intention
to the part of the geh,nral body of the Dissenters.-
he would take upon himself to t2eelare.—( Cheers.) The Hon.
Member had asked whether the measure proposed to be in-
troduced, was the healing; measure. He ( Mr. B. in answer.
could say that it would be a healing measure. It tv,Ne not
o.
be said it was ineffectual, because it did answer the t. on
every one.—( Hear, hear, hear.) He would take
himself to say that the measure proposed by his Mai 'es",te
Ministers was a much better one than that proposed b)
got
flea. Member, and that if it was carried as proposed, l-
only would Church-rates be abolished, but the Clergy bette.
paid The Hon. Member had said that there were 11 milli°ll
of persons connected with the Church of England, and there
was not Church room for a quarter of them ; he would ask
whether the whole of that eleven millions were anxious or de.
sirous to go to the Church —(Cheers.)
(LEFT SPEAKING.)

TATTERSALL'S(THIS EVENING)*

THE DERBY.
2 to 1 agst Mr. S. Stanley's Rat-trap
9 to 2 agst Mr. Greville's Mango
8 to 1 agst Lord Suffleld's Caravan
'8 to 1 4gst Lord Exeter's Hybiscus
11 to 1 agst Lord Berners's Phosphorus
13 to 1 egst Mr. Wreford's Wisdom
17 to 1 agst Mr. Bowes's Mickle Fell—taken
25t-) 1 agst Lord J rvy's Achmet
25 to 1 agst Mr. Osbaldeston's Alabcmetm
25 to 1 agst Captain Gardnor's Benedict
50 to 1 agst Lord Chesterfield's Critic
70 to i agst Mr. Wreford's Wintonian
100 to 1 agst Lord Chesterfield's Sambo
THE OAKS.
2 to l agst Mr. J. Day's Chapeau d'Espagne
9 to 4 agst Mr. Thornhill's Egeria—taken