The Sun.
London, England, 1839-08-13 00:00:00

hiJIVGERFoRD MARKET.

Prices of Fish much the same as in the City. Butchers'
Meat in fair demand, and prices steady. Beef, 7d. to 80. ;
Mutton, 70. to 80. ; Veal, &I. to 9d. ; Pork, 70. to 80.
Vegetables in fair supply; prices continue rather to go down.
HAY

Hay, old and new, 603. to 80s., 905., and 105 s. ; Clover,
803. to 1003. and 120 s. ; Straw, 383, to 425. per load.

ARREST OF A CHARTIST.—On Monday
afternoon, about two o'clock, as a police constable of the
bi division, named Serle, was passing through the Black-
friars-road, his attention was arrested by a man at the
head of a Chartist procession (which was then on
its way to Kennington common), who was brand►sh-
ing something in his hand which had the appear-
ance of a dirk. He went up to the man, and discovered
-it to be a species of sword, sharp at both edges, and
brought to an extremely fine point. It was about six-
teen inches long, and had a wooden handle. There
were two other men, ivith similar instruments, on each side
of this individual, who, on seeing the policeman, imme-
diately decamped, Serle endeavoured to secure the in-
strument, and convey the man to the station, in which
attempt he cut his hand in several places very severely, but
eventually succeeded. The man, on being taken to the
station, said that he had intended to use the dirk against
any one that should dare to molest him. He gave his
name George Fincher, 2, Charlotte-street, Curtain-road,
and said he was a shoemaker. He was taken to Union.
hall, where the case was heard, and he was ordered to be
locked up in default of bail.
Vincent and his companions are not subjected
to the customary regulations of our county prison, of hav-
ing their hair closely cut, and wearing the prison dress.—
Merlin.

TILE ARREST of Mr. BRONTERRE O'BRIEN.
—( From a Correspondent.)—Late on Monday night the
above• named gentleman was served with a Judge's war-
rant, and taken to Bow-street by an officer from New-
castle-upon-Tyne. Mr. O'Brien was to have started by
the evening train for the North, for the purpose of surren-
dering himself, but in this he has been prevented, and saved
a troublesome and fatiguing journey.
BRISTOL SUGAR MARKET, AUG. 9.--Sugars
continue very steady, and a fair business dOing.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

(THIS DAY.)

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
The SPEAKER took the Chair to-day shortly after Twelve
o' Clock.
On the motion of Mr. C. WOOD, the Halifax, Hud-
dersfield, and Bradford Small Debts Bill was read a se-
cond time, and ordered to be committed.
MANCHESTER POLICE BILL.
Lord G. SOME ft SE I' presented a petition from the
inhabitants of Manchester. signed by 7,290 persons, against
the Manchester Police Bill.
BIRMINGHAM RIOTS.
Mr. WAKL E Y gave notice of his intention to present
to-morrow a petition from Mr. Carpenter, the Chairman
of the Convention of the Industrious Classes, relative to
the three prisoners Robert, Jones, and Howard, under sen-
tence of death in Warwick gaol.
BIRMINGHAM POLICE BILL.
Lord J. RUSSELL moved the Order of the Day for
the third reading of the Birmingham Police Bill.
Mr. SCHOLEFIELD felt bound, in consequence of
the wishes of the greater portion of his constituents, and
the whole of the Town Council of Birmingham, to move
as an amendment that the Bill should be read a third time
that day three months.
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the
House divided, when there appeared—
For the motion
For the amendment . a
Majority
Lord JOHN RUSSELL then moved the committal of
the Manchester Police Bill.
Lord G. SOMERSET said on Friday last he had given
his assent to the further proceeding of this Bill, but since
then he had made many and diligent inquiries; lie had
taken much pains to learn the true state of the case, and
he was now of opinion that the measure was unnecessary.
It was too strong a measure for superseding local authority,
and was not justified by the circumstances of the case. The
Noble Lord founded his measures because he wanted to have
a strong body of police in :Manchester, Bolton, and Bir-
mingham, in consequence of the tumultuous nature of the
proceedings of the Chartists—he (Lord G. S.) had deeply
studied passing events, and he was of opinion that they
were not of so dangerous a character as to justify such a
Bill. He was quite aware that yesterday there had been
some windows broken, but he was also aware that that
violence had been put down by the police force, now in
existence, and without any necessity for the military force.
There were now 220 persons, well organised and trained
to their duty ; they had been organised for a number of
years, and the system of watch, as he was in-
formed, could not be improved.—( Hear.) Manchester
was not therefore like Birmingham—it was much better off.
The cases of the two towns were totally different, for in the
case of Birmingham the public money was to be applied,
but in the case of Manchester the whole of the funds were
local. A very large meeting had been held since the in-
troduction of the Bill was known, and it was attended by
persons professing all shades of politics—every one, Con-
servative, Whig, and Radical, all unanimously said,
►he present measure was wholly unnecessary, —( Hear.)
It was only on the Saturday that it was known at Man-
chester the Bill had passed a second stage ; and on the
Wednesday following the petition had received the signa-
tures of 7,000 inhabitants of Manchester, of all shades of
political opinion, representing the property and respecta-
bility of the town, strongly deprecating the measure, and
yet those were the persons for the protection of whose
lives and property the Noble Lord said the measure was
absolutely necessary. Those persons differed with the
Noble Lord in toto, and said the measure was uncalled
for. They were of opinion that the ordinary police were
perfectly efficient. The Commissioners had a legislative
right to levy a rate for the police, and if that was refused,
they had power to apply to the Court of Queen's Bench
for a mandamus, and therefore there was no chance
of Manchester being left without a police, force up toJuly,
1840. As far as he ( Lord G. Somerset) could under-
stand, the opposition of the parishioners to the measure had
not a tincture of party spirit about it ; on the contrary,
Radicals, Conservatives, and Whigs all joined in saying
the Bill was totally unnecessary. Why should the local
authorities be superseded by Government Commissioners ?
He would not insinuate any thing unfair ; but he could
not but observe that the speech of the Hon. Member for
Salford countenanced an impression which had extensively
prevailed in Manchester, that the great object of the Bill
was to relieve the present Corporation, or rather the indi-
viduals, from considerable difficulties in which they
were involved, having, on their own authority—pa-
triotically enough, no doubt—established a police force,
and finding themselves unable to levy rates for its support,
hoped that the Commissioners under this Bill would take
that force as their own, and thus extricate these persons
from tbeir embarrassment; and it was natural, certainly,
that if that force was a good one it should be so adopted;
but this accounted for what was otherwise unaccountable
—the approbation given to the Bill by the Manchester
Council, when the Council at Birmingham resisted their
similar measure. Believing that the forcing this Bill
through Parliament during the disputes relative to the
Manchester Charter would produce great discontent in
the town, and frustrate the desirable object of preservins
the peace of the town, ho moved that this Bill be com-
mitted that day three months.
Mr. M. PHILLIPS said the House must be aware he
felt himself in a very unpleasant situation in coming for-
ward to support a Bill, which he believed was necessary
for the tranquillity of the town which he represented, but
which he admitted did border somewhat on an unconstitu-
tioral character. It had been represented that a consider-
able amount had been collected by the Police Commis-
missioners. But the point which it was important to bear
in mind was, whether their power of collecting the rates
could be relied on with certainty.—( Hear, hear.) And he
begged tr. d;roat attention to•the 124th clause of the 11th
(=L.. IV.—thQ Act under which the Commissioners were

empowered, and it would be seen that by this clause any
parties depositing the amount of a disputed rate with the
collector, and giving notice to the Commissioners, might
appeal against such rate to the quarter sessions, within
four months. Now tnerc was a great distinction between
paying and depositing. Money deposited he considered
could not be appropriated. The collector dare not apply
the money so deposited with him to the usual purposes—
till the vexata questio was settled : till then the money
was as though paid intolCourt. But there was nothing to
prevent parties objecting to the rate, from suffering dis-
tress, and putting in a replevin, thus postponing thedeci-
sion for 9or 12 months perhaps. He thought this mea-
sure wisely and judiciously framed, and calculated to
prevent
those heart burnings which would otherwise
Prevail. It should be borne in mind that there
were, in fact, two bodies of police in the town, one that of
the Corporation, the other that of the Commissioners.
And he thought that instead of co-operating together,
which it was scarcely possible to expect, seeing that they
were directed by opposite parties, instead of co-operating
to preserve the peace, the would themselves be found the
disturbers of the peace.—( Hear, hear, hear.) The se-
lection of the force, he considered, would be best
committed to persons unconnected with the party feel-
ing so prevalent in the town.—( Hear, hear, hear.)
As to Salford, it had its own Local Act, similar in effect
to the Manchester one—and there being nu disputes in
Salford on the subject of contesting jurisdtJtions, if the
police were inefficient (which he was not aware that they
were) they could be increased to any extent under that
Act.—( Hear, hear.) He could not help remarking, that
it was rather singular that the petition against the Bill
should have been hawked;about by a ve.y" conscientious"
party for signatures on a Sunday.—( Hear.)
Mr. G RIMSDITC LI believed the 81111 unnecessary.
Why not introduce a short Bill to settle the disputed
point ? The Commissioners and the Corpordtors were
many of them the same parties.—(Hear, hear.)
There was no evidence offered to the House to prove
that they ought to pass such a Bill as this. He thought
there must be some pressure upon the Noble Lord to in-
duce him to bring in such a coercive measure as this. He
wished the House to pause before they sanctioned such a
measure as this. He was sure it would be received with
disgust and dissatisfaction. The manufacturing towns
were not in a position to bear the imposition of ad-
ditional burdens. He hoped the Noble Lord would
show the aecessity which existed for this measure.
The situation of Manchester was entirely different from
that of Birmingham. As regarded the town of Bolton the
burden would be intolerable.

Mr. P. TH OMSON could certainly not congratulate
the Noble Lord opposite on the support he had received
from the Hon. Gentleman behind him because he differed
entirely :from the Noble Lord in the grounds of his opposition.
It had been stated that noreason had been brought forward
for passing the Bill. Why, the fact was, that the reasons
adduced were so strong that the Noble Lord who now pro-
posed the amendment was induced by them to vote for the
second reading of the Bill. It had been contended that
the casa was not parallel with that of Birmingham ;
he contended that it was so as far as the necessity of pro-
viding some police force went. There was this difference,
however, between Manchester and Birmingham, that the
Town ouncil of the latter place had provided no police,
while to the honour of the Town Council of Manchester, they
had provided a mo•t efficient one. The Town Council of Bir
minaham had opposed the Police Bill for that town, while
that of Machestcr placed itself in the hands of the Govern.
ment. The reason the Government had not introduced
a Bill similar to the one referred to by the Honourable
Member opposite was, that it might have the effect
of unsettling the decisions of the Court of Law. Believing
the Bill would be productive of great good; it should
have his most strenuous support.
Mr. DARBY supported the amendment, believing
that there was no necessity for the measure.
Mr. BROTHERTON was proud that he had always
voted in favour of the people and for every liberal measure
—he did not support the Bill because he liked it, but be.
cause ho wanted to save the peace of the country. The
Hon. Gentleman opposite said there had been no burnings
at Manchester. Did they want to wait till such
scenes were exhibited—did they not think pre-
vention better than cure ? He recollected the riots
of 1815 and 1829, when there was no police to prevent
them. If the House did not pass the Bill such would be
the state of things again. He submitted to the Bill, not
because he liked it, but because he saw the necessity of it.
Mr. BOLLING had supported the second reading of
the Bill, but from the communications he had received
from his constituents, he was now prepared to oppose all
those Bills, as he now thought the peace of the district
would be best preserved by their withdrawal.
Lord J. RUSSELL said the clause opposed by the
Hon. Gentleman was that one which the Right Hon.
Gentleman the Member for Tamworth said it was his duty
to propose as Conservator of the Peace of the countr •
why it should be good for Birmingham and should not be
be
plaic
applied to Manchester he did not know.
His duty was e
take steps for the preservation of the peace in every
wherein it could not be done by the local
authoritiese
the charter of
According to the opinions he had taken, if
rtiising rates
incorporation was good, the wholeatpo'er of
there
4 la the Corpora-
was a decision
for the support of the police wag Veqte .
ora-
tion, and therefore immetlir4el)-• that
in a cowt of law that the
that decision would . • charter
carry thug pone w", good,
all rates ' for the purpose luenCe, tb-4
.-..
ordered by the cotmeil and 9 - "la ....ouid be
... 1 an ea..-
all other rates
i' Polk .1.-

EVENING EDITION.

levied by other authoriCes, would be bad rates. If that
wa., so, it was evident there would be many parties on whom
claims might be made for paying ths rate to the Police
Cammissioners, who would hesitate to pay that rate.
( We shall give the conclusion in our SECOND
EDITION).