The Sun.
London, England, 1839-04-24 00:00:00

no objection to members of clubs attending elections as
individuals, but was fearful of clubs degenerating into
cabals.
Mr. CLEAVE also protested against the interference of
the Democratic Association, and expressed his disappro-
• bation of those who showed their approbation of the
French Revolution by styling themselves Murat and
Robespierre, which was likely to prejudice the Conven-
tion in the eyes of those whose support would be of ser-
vice to them.
Mr. HARNEY had been present at the election yes-
terday, which had been conducted in a proper manner,
and he would assert that Mr. Williams had been elected
in ac fair a manner as any Member of the Convention—
Members of the Democratic Association were present,
but as a body they took no part in the proceedings.
Several Members denied this.
The CHAIRMAN called to order, and—
Mr. HARNEY resumed—He would repeat what
he had said—As a body that Association had taken
no part. The sections of that Association never met in
secret to conspire ; all their meetings were public ones;
and as to their being divided into sections, other so-
cieties, also, were divided into different sections. The
National Union of the Working Classes was a case in
point. Mr. Westertoti was put in nomination, but it did
not follow that he must be elected.—(Hear, hear.) He
was present at the election, but he took no part in it,
because he formed one of the Convention, though some
Members of the Convention did interfere with the
election in favour of Mr. Westerton. Mr. Williams
was fairly elected yesterday, and, according to the hills,
he represented East Surrey, but still it was the general
understanding of the men of Lambeth, the Delegate
was to represent them also ; and if the question was
put to the vote, he would feel himself bound to vote
that Mr. Williams was Member for Lambeth, as well
East Surrey. It was not true that the Democratic
Association had marched to the meeting with their
banners. The flags were his own and he had lent them
to the committee of the day. He denied that the Asso-
ciation ever attempted to put down or controul the
Convention, but they were not contented with the mode
in which the London Delegates had been elected, and
thought they ought again to go back to their constituents.
—( Hear, hear.) He denied in the strongest manner that
the Democratic Ass.ociation had ever attempted to exereise
any controul over the Convention ; such a measure had
never been mooted amongst them. He knew thathe had the
people on his side and he was not to be put down because
it was said that he was a favourer of the French revo-
lutionhe was for its virtues, not for its vices. He
would rejoice in the name of Jacobin, and posterity
would yet do them justice.
111 r. HARTWELL gave an account of the election of
Mr. Williams in order to prove that the election was
for East Surrey, and not for Lambeth.
The motion for the adjournment of the question was
then put and agreed to.
Mr. CARDO handed in 3/. from the West London
Democratic Association for the Borough of Maryle-
bone, as National Rent. His constituents complained
that the rent they had formerly paid did not appear
as if coming from them. They had called twenty-six
meetings, and they had never come to the Convention
for any of the expenses attendant upon them.
Mr. CLEAVE said there was no question before the
Chair.
Mr. CARDO would not be put down. His consti-
tuents had been charged with not doing their duty,
and he was bound to defend them from such an un-
founded charge.
Mr. HARTWELL said the question had better be
dropped. He must deny all that had fallen from Mr.
Cardo.
Mr. BUSSEY thought the whole of the members had
run mad that morning.--(A laugh). He would move
that the Convention take no notice of these disputes.
The conversation then dropped.
Mr. SANKEY had been down to meet his consti-
tuents, and they were most enthusiastic in support of
the Convention, and had sent up by him a Scotch note.
In 1825 they showed their determination, when small
notes were attempted to be put down ; they were now
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Several letters, approving of the proceedings of the
Association, were read by the Secretary.
SIMULTANEOUS MEETINGS.
♦ report from the Simultaneous Meetings Committee
was read, and was as follows :
The Convention having decided on the propriety of
holding simultaneous meetings in different parts of the
country, in order that such determination may be carried
into effect, recommend the publication of the following
Address :

" TO THE PEOPLE OF GREAT BRITAIN.
"Entrusted by the industrious classes with the Na-
tional Petition for presentation to the House of Com-
mons, it becomes the duty of the Convention to lay
before the people of Great Britain the opinion which
they have formed from observation and conversation.
It is the opinion of the Convention that the House of
Commons will not accede to the prayer of the Petition
—that leave to bring in a Bill founded on the Na-
tional Petition will be refused. In that case the
functions of the Convention will cease. The Conven-
tion will then separate and return to their homes ; or
they will receive fresh instructions from their consti-
tuents. To give the people of Great Britain an oppor-
tunity of deciding on the propriety of abandoning the
cause in which they were engaged, or to direct what
ulterior measures shall be adopted, the Convention re-
commend that public meetings shall be holden in as many
places as possible during Whitsun week. The Con-
vention earnestly advise the people of Great Britain to
be careful in the consideration of this all-important sub-
ject, for one more important was never submitted to
the consideration of any nation. The conduct of
the ruling powers for the three last months, con-
viuccs the Convention that it is in vain for the
people to expect relief from those in authority. The
Convention have no hopes other than in the rfirmness
and energy of the people. Be careful then, people of
Great Britain ; he in council wise—in action prompt.
Delegates from the Convention will attend as many of
these meetings as their number will admit. The Con-
vention advise that Committees be formed for carrying
these recommendations into effect, and that information
as to time and place of meeting be transmitted as soon
as possible to the Convention."
Mr. Moor.e moved the adoption of the address.
Mr. SKEVINGTON seconded the proposition of Mr.
Moore.
Mr. CARPENTER felt great reluctance in opposing the
adoption of this report, and this reluctance was much
increased from the report having received the very
best attention of the Committee who had drawn it up,
and who had unanimously agreed to it.—(Hear, hear.)
At the same time Ise would not be doing his duty to his
numerous constituents if he did not dissent from
that part of it which inculcated the principle, that
the people had no reliance on the result of
the Petition. He believed there was no mem-
ber of this Convention had any doubt on this
subject, but still he would consider it imprudent to give
any expression on this question to the country at large.
Seeing, however, that the chief object of the Convention
in being brought together was to have the Petition pre-
pared in the most effective manner, and that it should
be presented in a shape so as to conduce to its success,
he did think that the duty of the members was this, and
that no steps should be omitted to ensure the passing of
the Charter into law.—(Hear, hear.) He thought it
would be great dereliction of duty in them if they put it
forth that their mission or function went further than
this. We have no right to say that this Petition will
not be effective, no matter how much we are of a con-
trary opinion.—(llear, hear.)
Mr. SANKEY—Much had been done to forward the
great cause in which they were embarked, which this
Address had kept out altogether. If the House of
Commons refused the prayer of the Petition, he thought
that the Convention should continue to discharge those
functions which they had undertaken to do.--(Hear.)
Ile would move an amendment that the report be sent
back for reconsideration.--( Hear.)
Mr. O'CONNOR—Mr. Carpenter seemed to think
that although we were unanimous, the people outside
were not. Their duty hitherto was but a preliminary
step, mere matter of form ; it was only the bringing on
of the question to the Court. All they had
to do was to bring the Petition to the House of Com-
mons, and wait to see the event of its success, and
then be guided as to what they should do in future.
Notwithstandine• the misunderstanding that had taken
place, it would be difficult to find a body of men who
had done their duty better than had the members of the
Convention. Universal Suffrage will yet come, like a
thunder-shock—it shall overspread the land with the
rapidity of lightning.—( Hear, hear.) If we go
to the country, and tell them that we had no
anticipation of the petition being unsuccessful, will
they believe us ? Will they not say they were de-
ceived ?—( Hear.) He could not undertake to tell the
people that he had any expectation from the House of
Commons more than that address expressed —(Hear,
hear.) He did not think that the small gleam of sun-
shine which Mr. Sankey thought to produce would be
effective in dispelling the clouds which were hanging
over them.—( Hear, hear.) He hoped, that as the
Address had been the subject of much deliberation, and
of great labour to the gentlemen forming the Committee,
those opposed to it would withdraw their amendment.
He thought it so much in point, its sentiments said so
much in so little compass, and gave the people to under-
stand what it meant, that it would not be prudent to
withdraw it.—(Hear, hear.) It was so short that the
people could see in it at once that they had nothing to
expect from the House of Commons.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. CARPENTER explained.
Mr. WHITTLE concurred entirely with the view
taken by Mr. O'Connor. They did not declare that
the object for which they were assembled was hopeless.
Mr. Carpenter appeared to be labouring under a mis•
conception, because that object was to bind the people ,

together in support of the Charter. The fact of the
non-yielding of the House of Commons was a fact of
no importance.
Mr. ROGERS wished the Convention not to step out
of their way to assert that of which they had no proof.
He would ask if the House of Commons was worse
now than when the people were called upon to sign the
Petition.
Mr. O'CONNOR—Worse within the last month.
Mr. ROGERS believed it to be as had as it ever was.
but not worse, than it. had been months ago. If Mr,
Sankey's motion went so far as to hold out any expecta-
tion of good from the House of Commons, he should
oppose it, but it did no such thing—why should the
Convention hold that language before the petition
was presented which they could only hold after ? Their
strength consisted in their sitting as a petitioning body ;
would they cast this shield from them at once, and
enable the advisers of the Crown to say that they had
only assumed the cloak of a petitioning body as an eva-
sion of the law ? He should support the amendment.
Mr. MILLS would not give any Members of the
House of Commons the opportunity of saying they had
prejudged the case. He should support the amendment.
Mr. BUSSEY denied that any false hopes had been
held out to the people. The only way to obtain their
rights was from the fears of the House. He thought it
would be right to state the Convention sat because
it had a Constitutional right to do so.
Mr. BURRELLS supported the amendment.
Dr. FLETCHER—They were bound to express their
expectation of meeting a refusal from the House of
Commons. He admitted that they sat under the cloak
of being a petitioning body, and the men of the North
held their meetings under this cloak, because the right
of petitioning was almost the only Constitutional right
they had left.
The amendment was then put from the chair and
lost, and the original motion carried.
Mr. O'CONNOR withdrew his motion for a grant of
money, for the purpose of holding general meetings, in-
timating his intention on a future day to move for a
grant of money to convey several Delegates to the dif-
ferent meetings and back again, leaving it to the meet-
ings themselves to make any necessary arrangements.
BIRMINGHAM MISSION, AND IMPUTATIONS AGAINST

THE MISSIONARIES.
Dr. PLETCHER proceeded to relate to the Convention
all the facts connected with his late Mission to Bir-
mingham and its neighbourhood, in company with Dr.
Taylor and Mr. Carpenter. When he arrived in Bir-
mingham, on Friday week, he found that a plan had
been determined on by the Committee of Observation,
sitting in that place, under whose directions the
Missionaries were instructed to act. The three
Missionaries directed to proceed to their different dis-
tricts, accompanied by a person selected by the Com-
mittee, to whom each Missionary was to pay two pounds
for wages during the the time they were out—say eight
or ten days—and also the travelling expenses. Dr.
Fletcher was accompanied by Mr. Powell to Westerbury,
on Friday, where arrangements were made to hold a
meeting on the coming Monday. On Saturday they
went to Belston, where they found people quite satisfied
that we have had enough of reform—(Hear)—though
they expressed much dissatisfaction at the conduct of
of the present Ministers. As they had a large space of
country to go over, they did not waste their time at
this place, but made inquiries as to the possibility of
getting up a meeting. After passing through Dar-
listen, where two individuals promised to get up a meet-
ing, they returned to Birmingham, for the purpose of
spending there the Sunday. On Monday they attended,
at Westerbury, a meeting, which was very numerous,
and which was imbued with the proper spirit of reform.
—(Hear, hear.) They went to Darlisten, according
to appointment, having first made arrangements to hold
a meeting at Walsall ; and in Westerbury they found
that the persons who had undertaken to get up the
meeting had disappointed them. One of them, they
found, was elected Churchwarden, which accounted for
his retiring from the ranks of Radicalism.—(Hear,
hear.) As it was too late in the day to hold an open
air meeting, and as they could not obtain a room for
their purpose, they were forced to take an opportunity
which offered them of accepting the accom-
modation of the Whig and Radical club of the
place, in order to make known the objects of
the Charter. They argued with some of the Whigs
at this Club, who, lie must say, treated them very cour-
teously, on the inefficiency of a repeal of the Corn-laws
to give the people the real means of happiness. He
need not say how easy they found it to prove the fallacy
of the Whig nostrum ; but he would say that the
greater part of the meeting testified their willingness to
enter into an Association to carry out the five great
principles of the Charter.—( Hear, and cheers.) They
had good meetings at Walsall on Wednesday, at West
Bromwich on Thursday, at Bloxwich on Friday ; and
on Saturday they failed in getting up a meeting at
Greatbridge, but got numerous signatures to the Na-
tional Petition. On the whole, they found among the
people of the district a great lack of political spirit and
information. The great bulk of the people are in a
most prosperous state, from the great demand for iron
by the rail-roads, that neighbourhood being totally
employed in the smelting.—( Hear.) They appeared
to themselves, ignorant as they were of political move-
ments, to be reaping all the fruits promised by the
Reform Act.—(Hear, hear.) The Birmingham Dele-
gates app-ared to him, Dr. Fletcher, both as mission-
aries and influential inhabitants of the districts to have
totally and grossly neglected the people of Birmingham
itself—he had not seen much of it, but he feared they
were much divided among themselves—but he must
say, there was among the Radicals a feeling of universal
approbation of the proceedings of the Convention. Dr.
Fletcher then proceeded to state, that he had proposed
attending the meetings which were to be held yesterday
in Birmingham for electing the new Delegates, but that,
having seen from the newspapers, that some remarks
which were other than complimentary, had been
used with reference to this mission as applying
to himself and his brother missionary, be must say
these remarks were uncalled for, and that with regard
to the missionaries formerly sent out a different line of
conduct had been acted on.—( Hear, hear.) Before lie
proceeded further, he begged that the Secretary should
read the resolution which sent them down to Bir-
mingham;

Read accordingly.
Mr. DEEGAN wanted to have the subsequent reso-
lutions rrad also, which was done.
For one and a half hour from this the Convention
was a scene of confusion and altercation, between
some ten or twelve members, arising from the pro-
ceedings of which Dr. Fletcher had spoken, and
which occurred on last Thursday, as will be seen on refer-
ring to the reports of that day's assembly. During this
time the Chairman had much difficulty in preserving
even the semblance of order, and at length was only
successful in doing so by some of the most well-ordered
among the members declaring that they would retire.
At length, after explanation on explanation had been
given, on the motion of Mr. Whittle, seconded by Mr.
Deegan, the marked thanks of the meeting were given
to Dr. Fletcher and 'Mr. Carpenter, for their conduct
on the Birmingham Mission.

GENERAL PETITION.
Upon the motion of Mr. PITKEITHLEY, seconded by
Mr. FEARGUS O'CONNOR, a Committee was appointed
to take measures for the purpose of obtaining an in-
crease to the signatures to the National Petition, and
that all such signatures should be forwarded to London
qn or before the 2d of May.
RETIREMENT OF A PHYSICAL FORCE DELEGATE.tBie
On Mr. RYDER, the Delegatbye
for
orthe es
ballot to go on theg
of Yorkshire, being appointed
London Agitation Committee, he declined doing so,
saying that in future he would not consider himself
Member of the Convention, having lost all confidence
in the body.
After which the usual vote of thanks was given to
the Chairman, and the meeting dissolved.

WIGAN ELECTION COMMITTEE.

The Committee met yesteiday morning at eleven o'clock.
Mr. CuiLDEns in the Chair.
At four o'clock only one vote on the poll of the sitting
Member was decided. The Committee was of opinion
that the vote was a good one, leaving the sitting Member
still in a majority of one.
The investigation is likely to be a very protracted one.

The Earl of Yarborough has arrived at Appul-
dercombe, his scat in the, Isle of Wight, from town. The
Nuble ,Earl purposes a cruise in his splendid yacht the
latter end of the ensuing month.
The Earl of Wilton has left town for Eglintoun
Castle, Ayrshire, on a visit to the Earl ofglintoun.
Lord Macdonald was to have arrived at the above seat on
Monday last. A numerous party assemble at tho castle
during this week.
parties, at Bath
burton's
Ash
Lord and Lady
House, will be discontinued during the present season, in
consequence of the domestic bereavements they have re-
cently sustained—namely, the deaths of the lion. Mrs.
Mildmay and the Hon. Arthur Baring, both
under 30
years of age.
AMERICAN ABOLITIONISM.--
Success will in-
volve the stability, not to say the existence of the Ame-
rican Government. For both these powers cannot occupy
the same field as victors. The American Abolitionists
must trample on the Constitution, and wade through the
carnage of a civil war, before they can triumph. If it
were a mere conflict of opinion, that were a different
thing ; but it is a body politic against a body politic—a
faction, under the o.g tnization of a state machinery, against
the state. All ;race, therefore, is necessarily suspended,
till the strife shall be brought to a close, by the suppression
of one of the hostile parties. Henceforth, nothing can be done
for the amelioration of the condition of the slaves till this
warfare is ended. The south has been compelled, in self-de-
fence, to rivet the chains of slavery afresh, and to hold on to
their political rights with a stronger hand. And the day can
hardly be remote, when they might be obliged to avail
themselves of their claim on the general government for
protection and redress. The cause of these disturbances
of the public peace must be inquired into, and the charac-
ter of the agency scrutinized. And when it shall be found
that it is an unconstitutional, illegal organization—as
doubtless it is—that it is an organized sedition in the Re-
public—then a collision between it and the Government
cannot be long delayed.—A Voice from America to Eng-
land.

THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY, APRIL 24, 1839