The Sun.
London, England, 1863-04-24 00:00:00

SEIZURE OF BRITISH SHIPS BY FEDERAL

CRUISERS.

Mr. ROEBUCK rose to ask the question of which he
had given the noble lord at the head of the Government
notice. Matters were going on is the West Indian waters
materially affecting British trade. (Hear, hear.) British
ships going from one neutral port to another had been
seized by an admiral of the United States. (Hear, hear.)
He confessed that all his high and ardent hopes that men
could govern themselves had been altogether negatived by
recent events in the disunited States. That great experi-
ment was at an end—namely, that men, under the most
favourable circumstances, were not equal to govern
themselves. (Hear, hear.) At first he had been
in favour of the North, but their whole conduct
since the rupture testified not only that they were unfit to
govern themselves, but were not fit for a place as a nation
in the civilised world. (Cheers.) He knew there were
generate Englishmen who took the part of the North
against their o se/. c,,un try, aid when the United States could
be contrasted advantageously with this country, never lost
tiny opportunity of doing so. King Cotton had threatened,
but he had failed to make much impression. In the case of
the Trent the United States truckled. The papers in the
ship lately seized had been inspected by an hon. gentleman,
one of the members for the City, and he reported them quite
harmless, yet it was seized by an American man-of-war
and taken into an American port. Yet the American
minister here bad given a permit to a ship to carry out
arms and ammunition to Mexico to be used against their
ally of France. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Adams ap-
peared to be the minister of commerce in England.
The noble lord had ever shown an anxious desire to up-
hold the honour of England. Now, had the Government
come to any determination with respect to the conduct
of Admiral Wilkes. He knew the consequences of
such an act. It might lead te war, (Hear, hear.) He
stood there to speak for the people of England, and he
knew they were prepared for war with the United States.
(Cries of " No, no.") He trusted the Government would
chastise the insolence of this upstart race. (Hear, hear.)
Lord PALMERSTON quite agreed with his hon. and
learned friend that the matters referred to in his question
were of the very gravest importance. (Hear, hear.)
All, however, he could say was that the subject
was receiving due consideration on the part of her Majesty's
Government ; but they were not at present prepared to
state what had been the result of their deliberations.
(Hear, hear.)
CRICKET IN BATTERSEA PARK.
In reply to Mr. Cox,

Mr. COWPER said the question had arisen out of a
misapprehension. There had been no interference in Bat-
tersea-park; but the Civil Service Cricket Club had had a
little more space granted to them.
THE SEIZURE OF BRITISH VESSELS.

Mr. BENTINCK rose to call the attention of her Ma-
jesty's Government to a statement in the City article of the
Tones newspaper of Friday, April 17, referring to the seizure
of British vessels by the cruisers of the Northern States of
America, and to move for papers on the subject. The hon.
and learned gentleman had placed him (Mr. Bentinck) in a
somewhat awkward position. The hon. and learned gentle-
man must have been aware of the notice standing in his
name, but he d;d not seem to be aware of the courtesy of
the house which precluded a member from forestalling a
motion by bringing it on in the shape of a question. But
the hon. gentleman did not seem to be particular to preserve
a spotless character in that house.
Mr. ROE BUCK—I object to that language.
Mr. BENTINCK—I am perfectly ready to state the
grounds.

Mr. ROEBUCK—I don't want him to state the grounds.
I rise to order.
The SPEAKER— I did not hear the words the hon. and
learned member complains of.
Mr. ROEBUCK—Then I will repeat the words, "That
the hon. member has not been careful to pursue a course
which would preserve a spotless character in his house."
The SPEAKER—The hon. member wil see that the
observation " That the bon. and learned gentleman has
done something not consistent with character," is not pro •
per language for this house.
Mr. BENTINCK said he was perfectly ready to explain
to the hon. and learned member the grounds on which he
based his remarks.
M E BUC
_I don't want to know them. (Laughter.)
xErr,
BENTINCK
was boand to say that probably the
R O
hon.dee linainadg lteearngaedinmtaeamnybeerxpexlaenrcaitsied aneaenstohuenscl duhjiesectr.etion (H.airn,
hearine.) However,ttbhaet hheenh.adabnedenl
epal
ranceedd
position
et some
he was about tdifficultyo s abyy
gentleman, who had, to some extent, forestalled the answer wer
which he was anxious to obtain from the noble lord the
head of the Government. The grounds on which he was
prepared to put his question to the noble lord rested upon a
statement which appeared a sh-zt time ago in the limes
newspaper, and it appeared to him that, unless full explana-
tions were given with respect to all the details of that state-
ment, they would not be adequately prepared for the dis-
cussion of tomorrow evening. He ventured to think that
in matters of the sort more harm was done by allowing a
feeling of irritation to be kept up from day to day, for the
want, perhaps, of some explanation on the part of the Go-
vernment of the country, than risk was encountered by
making public those explanations. The hors. member then
proceeded to state he was referring to the report of an inter.
view between the noble earl at the head of the Foreign De-
partment and a deputation which waited upon him intro •
duced by the hon. member for the city of London (Mr.
Crawford), and which appeared in the Times of Friday in
last week. He believed that that statement was one of the
most extraordinary ever given currency to by the journals
of this country. The hon. member then gave an account of
what had occurred at the interview on the subject of the
seizure of the Peterhoff, and read Mr. Adams's letter, which
has recently been made public relative to the trade between
England and Mexico, and to the granting of certificates of
character by the American Minister to British vessels start-
ing from British ports. He demanded to know what were
the views of the Government with respect to the conduct
and language of Mr, Adams, and likewise whether the very

inadequate language and the yielding tone of the noble earl
at the head of the Foreign Department was approved of by
the Cabinet generady.
Mr. CRAWFORD, having been referred to in connec-
tion with the case of the Petethoff, desired to state that, at
the proper moment and under the proper circumstances,-he
was quite ready to go into explanations on the question;
but he must decline to do so then—(hear)—and for two rea-
sons: in the first place, because of the very critical position
in which that transaction had placed the relations of the
two countries; and, secondly, because he had heard the
noble lord at the head of the Government state that evening
that the whole matter was under the consideration of the
Government.S Knowing that, he would consider it highly
inexpedient and indecorous if he were to enter into a pio•
longed discussion of the case upon that occasion. (Hear,
hear.) But he could not sit down without stating that he
had heard with the greatest distaste—indeed, he might say
disgust—the sentiments expressed that evening by the hon.
and learned member for Sheffield (Mr. Roebuck)—(cheers)
—nor could he, in the second place, admire the taste of the
hon. memb r for West Norfolk (Mr. Bentinck) in proceed-
ing with his notice after the statement made by the noble
lord at the head of the Government. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. PEACOCK E remarked upon the very undignified
position in which the house found itself through being
dep-ndent for all tat) information they possesed on this
question on the announcements in the City article of a
newspaper. (Hear, hear.) If it was the pleasure of the
house that he should do so, he was willing to move
for all the papers connected with the subject. He
desired also to know whether the Government were
aware of Mr. Adams having acknowledged the ge-
nuineness of that letter to which reference had been
made ; and whether there was any objection to the produc-
tion of the correspondence between Earl Russell at d the
City merchants relative to the conveyance of the mails to
Matamoras. That question was of much more importance
than was generally imagined. Some months ago Mr. Sea-
ward iutarmed the Mexican Minister that, althou2h the
Government of the United States wished to prevent t ,e ex-
portation of arms from the United States, they neverthe •
less did not wish to deprive Mexico of the arms necessary
to carry on th, war against the French, and therefore that,
if the Mexican Government desired to send to England for
them, he would cause every facility to be given for the pur-
pose of enabl-ng them to procure them. Thereupon the
Mexican Government sent over to this country a Mexican
general, accompanied by a merchant who was in the habit
of purchasing arms, with a letter to Mr. Adams requiring
him to afford these gentlemen every assistance in the pro-
curing of arms for the war which Mexico was carrying on
against France. Widt thes> facts in circulation, it was
desirable that Government should allay public irritation by
giving the house all the information on the subject it was
possible for them to do, He accordingly moved for copies
of the correspondence that had passed on the subject.
(Hear, hear.)

Mr. NEWDEGA IT dissented from the remarks that
had been made by the hon. and learned member for Shef-
field, which he considered calculated to prejudice the in-
terests of this country with the United States. He held
that it was inexpedient, in the highest sense, to taunt
those of our (WM blood on the other side of the Atlantic
with the mi,fortune whicb, it was to be hoped, they
would be able to repair. He was ready to support her
Majesty's Government in vindicating the honour of this
country, but he cautioned the house against being actuated
by feelings of disappointment or of spite.

Mr. LAY ARD said he was surprised that such a discus-
sion as that before the house should have arisen upon expres-
sions used in the money article of a morning newspaper. He
was also surprised that the discussion should have been
continued, and still more was he surprised at the speech of
the hon. member for Maldon, and that he should move for
the papers which the Government had still under discus-
sion. He could give no further answer than that given by
the noble lord at the head of the Government, but there
were two questions upon which he wished to make a few
remarks. The hon. member for West Norfolk had stated
that the deputation to the noble lord at the head of the
Foreign-office had made a proposal which was of a humi-
liating character.

Mr. BENT INCK —I said the proposal was one which in-
volved an insult to this country.
Mr. LAYARI)—The word was humiliating. But whether
it was humiliating or insulting to the noble lord it would
la, so to this country. (Hear, hear.) It was the same
thing, and no man who knew the noble lord would believe
that he would bear patiently with language or conduct
which was of a humiliating or insulting character. (Oh,
oh, and hear, hear.) But in truth no proposal of a
humiliating or insulting character was made to the noble
lord. The deputation proposed to the noble lord that a
Post-office agent should be placid on board the Sea Queen,
and he said the matter should be inquired into. The depu•
tation stated that if the owner of the vessel should decline
to take a mail bag he would be subject to a penalty, and if
he took a mail bag the vessel would be liable to forfeiture
if letters found on board by an American cruiser should be
considered by a prize court to be of a treasonable nature.
But the Let was ihe gentlemen who formed the deputation
had not fairly stated what really toek place, and they ought
to have done so. He would place the public in possession
of the facts, and point out the misrepresentation which had
been wade. The hon. gentleman then read a copy of a let-
ter addressed t the Post-office, in which Earl Russel stated
that a deputation had orated upon him at the Foreign-office,
and that they had asked to have an agent on board.
Mr. BAILLIE rose to order. The hon. member could nit
read letters which had not been presented to the house.
The SPEAKER ruled that the hon. gentlemen was in
order.

Mr. LAYARD continued, and after reading other letters
said, it was considered by the noble lord that the owners of
the Sea Queen shculd not be released from the obligation Of
carrying a mail bag, "unless with the full concurrence of
:he commander." The Government had merely, therefore,
relieved the owners of the ship from the performance of an
unpleasant obligation. He wished to correct an error which
had appeared in the papers that Lord Russell was surprised
that the crew of the Feterhoff had been detained prisoners
in America. Lord Russell did not express that surprise, for
he was perfectly well acquainted with all the facts of the
case before he had the pleasure of receiving the deputation.
It was quite a mistake to suppose that the honour and dig-
nity of the country were not properly maintained by her
Majesty's Government. (Hear.)
Mr. WHITESIDE said the hon. gentleman seemed to be
surprised at everything which had been done or said, ex-
cept at the speech of the noble lord at the head of the Go-
vernment. He (Mr. Whiteside) wanted to know whether it
was unbecoming for the members of that house to seek for
information from the Government on a subject which was
attracting the attention of every member of the community.
He did not ask for information for the purpose of urging the
Government to go to war, but for the purpose of preventing
war, He recollected that on one occasion a celebrated orator
sitting en the other side of the house said, in commenting on
the conduct of Government in reference to the Crimean war,
that that war might have been averted if the Government
had laid certain papers before the House of Commons.
(Hear.) That gentleman was now Under Secretary for
Foreign Affairs. (Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Whiteside) hoped
and believed that these inquiries would avert war, not pro-
voke war. (Hear, hear) When any question of this kind
arose, it was in his opinion of great importance that mem-
bers of the House of Commons should not be the last to seek
information from the Government.

Sir H. CAIRNS said the hon. gentleman the Under Se-
cretary for Foreign Affairs had thought it right to commu-
nicate certain letters to the house, but he did not know that
he had given thew much informKtion, because he recognised
letters which he had seen in the papers some days ago.
(Hear, hear.) Ile wanted to know whether her Majesty's
Government intended to give colour to the idea that if there
were in a mail bag carried from any British port to a neutral
port a letter which might be considered by a prize court to
deserve the appellation of treasonable—he wanted to know
whether that ci,cumstance would justify the detention,
trial, and perhaps forfeiture of the merchant vess. I.
(Cheers.) There was no mistake as to the course which
had been taken. The Under Secretary of State said
merchant vessels were obliged to carry mail bags ; that
these bags might be searched, and if anything were
found on board of a suspicious character, the vessel
might be detained ; and he further told the house
that on a representation being made to the Foreign
Secretary, the Sea Queen had been relieved of the
obligation imposed by law. Now, let them come
nearer home. Dover was not far from Calais. Could a
merchant ship passing from the former port be overhauled
by an American cruiser, and if letters were tound on board
of a treasonable nature could she be detained and a prize
court forfeit her ? He wanted to know how the merchant
service of this country was to be carried on under such a
state of things. He supposed that all shipowners would
adopt the course of not carrying these mail-bags. He hoped,
however, the public mind would be relieved by the Govern-
ment from the ideas which seemed to prevail. (Hear.)
Mr. MALINS ant?the Solicitor-General rose together;
but
though there were loud calls for the latter, the former
dthisecUusnsdioenr: Saecndrettbaaryt
tfhoreFnoorbel iegn lordA ffaihras
dh aads
ednerperde
tcba teztl this
hon. member persisted in his right to proceed. He said that
matter was in safe keeping, and the country in no danger.
He, however, did not think the house ought to be sati.fied
with such an answer. He, for one, felt himself humiliated
every morning. (Cries of "Oh, oh," and loud laughter.)
He would say that in ci mmon with Englishmen in general
he felt humiliated by seeing that the commerce of this
country was being carried on by the sufferance of a foreign
Power. (Hear.) Merchant vessels were bound by law to
carry mail bags, and they had heard that the Post-office had
relieved one vessel from the performance of the obligation.
But he wanted to know why the Government did not enforce
the law. This was a subject which could not be deferred. The
country would not allow it to be postponed,and he thought the
think Government were bound to give an answer. Was the Govern -
n e tGovernment might
ment of this country prepared to submit to the dictation of
the Government of the United States, or of any otherGovern-
mutts that we should carry on our commerce as that Go-
vfihtad?
su(cHceuarar,bhedeairn.)a
mostHe believedher
e r
Majesty's m
Gent
odisgraceful
mcaannrry eorn
.(Oh,
oh,
and hear, hear.) This country ought to
or herapprehensic:_n mlnerce without dictation and without fear
from any part of the world. The Govern-
ment ought to be prepared to say at once that the law must
be obeyed, instead of relieving owners from carrying mail