The Sun.
London, England, 1863-07-15 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNES,DA.Y
,EYXNING, JULY 15, 1863,

mill hands could not stand the climates of our colonies in
the southern hemisphere, because they were particularly
adapted, on account of the genial warmth that prevailed,
the absence of snow, east winds, and fogs, to renovate the
impaired health of these artisans. Though numbers of emi-
grants had gone during the last year or two to Australia
the labour market had not been disturbed nor wages re-
duced. He contended that the " assisted" emigration he
proposed would be a great boon to the distressed cotton
hands, who, he was satisfied, were most desirous of emi-
grating. In the course of a year or two a sum of from
£200,000 to £300,000 would be available, out of colonial
funds, for the promotion of emigration, provided the emi-
grants themselves contributed a little sum. He appealed to
the house to accede to his motion, and thus mitigate the
prevalent distress.
Mr. MARSH seconded the motion. He spoke from
great experience when he said that our colonies would be
glad to receive a great accession of emigrants. The colo-
nies did not want particular specialties in emigrants. If
they had good common sense and w. re willing to
work they would be sure to succeed. For
instance, in the old days of transportation,
it was foiled that London pick-pockets made the best shep-
herds. (Laughter.) Ho quoted statistics to show that
wages in Queensland wra high, and food exceedingly
cheap. It was, too, a capital place for women, because there
ware no shops (Laughter.)
Mr. NEWDEGATE supportEd 'the bill, because an Ex-
ceptional resource was needed in the present extremity, and
he was satisfied that this was the best one that could at the
present juncture be devised for the relief of the distressed
cotton-workers. The emigration, under proper guidance
and pmtection, of women was exceedingly desirable, in
(Ada' to correct the present glaring disproportion of the
sexes iu this country.
Colonel W. PATTEN denied that the Lancashire com-
mittee wero hostile to the emigration of the distressed cot-
ton hands. They had no right to expend money placed in
their hands for the relief of distress to a foreign object not
indicated by the donors. (Hear, hear.) The committee
weretitkingsteps
tine gthueardwaingtaeirr
andh
the de hopedistre thessthat housemight
be apprehended
would believe that the committee would do their best to
meet all the rational requirements of the distressed opera-
tives, (Hear, hear.)
mr. FERRAND considered that the hon. member (Mr.
Childers) would not succeed in carrying his motion, because
the manufacturers had leagued themselves with the Go-
vernment to keep them in the vicinity of the mills, in case
shouldo be
subscribed required.
hlatd appeared
one b thatdt ee£lvylo6trOea,diOsOet
00d
with the £2oo,oooenla
011
k 3
ion:.r, per head on the 400,000 to 500,000
their services
outthe ofo
under this bill, only
heeatarydviinsgedththeme local
committee were actually 30,000 able-bodied men
needingPti the
areai di.ll:eoso9o,lno
was at that
themdri.stßriActsGwwhEerLeLhe
lamentable distress
mo-
ment a paucity of haymakers. t
outof
E employmentd'riheeecr tient their c
attentioniLancashire,
antdo
therefatchte
of Ireland, especially
two classes of her Ma-
in the west, and said the
waY
ill°
in Lancashire—were
among agriculturists in various parts
jesty's subjects—those in Ireland and
akdnveewr tefdo r ao
affor these
d
treated presented a remarkable e.;:atrast. ?Nothing was done
for the former, but if the Government did not
poor people succour, he warned them that the peop
-ail in their loyalty.le would
of the
law afforded every facility to parishes to aid in the emigre-
Mr. HIBBERT contended that the present state
tion of distressed inhabitants willing to leave their native
land.

After a few words from Mr. ADDERLEY,
Mr. VILLIERS advised the hen. member (Mr. Childers)
to withdraw his motion. He proposed that there should be no
compulsory emigration, but that it should be quite optional.
He had not, however, proved that either the operatives
or the parishes supported his motion. Then he clearly de-
monstrated by figures that the emigration during the pre-
sent year had greatly increased, If so, why interfere with
what was going on ? The hon, gentleman had stated pub-
licly that the colonies had a quarter of a million of money
ready for the promotion of emigration; but he had not
shown that such really was the case, though the hon. mem-
ber had stated that he expected to be made the holder of
this large sum. The mass of emigrants did not care to go
to Australia, but to America, and the righthonia.cgte,natlmradn.
quoted statistics in support of his statement. Ile feared
the hon. gentleman had unfortunately mixed up his
humanity with his interest in Australia; in
ing to him, England's misery was Melbourne's oppoTtuity.
His opinion was that if employment could be found here for
the distressed operatives in this country it would be ham_
pr to encourage emigration. Cotton operatives were not
e
required in Victoria, and, indeed, several of the colonies
hadno need of such hands. It was the duty of Govern-
ment to seo that men were not encouraged to leave their
native land unless they were well satisfied that they stood
a good chance of doing well in the future. It was useless
sending the operatives to Queensland or any other place
where there was not sufficient capital or channels of em-

ployment open. Parishes had by law ample powers to
keep emigration in check, but they had not seen it expe-
dient to put the law in force. The Government could net
curtail emigration.
Mr. HENLEY deprecated the use of the expression
by the right hon. gentleman, "England's misery
was Mel-
bourne's opportunity," as positively indecent, seeing the
succour afforded by Australia to the suffering operatives at
home. (Hear, hear.) Ho lacked information with respect
to the £250,000 spoken about as to be furnished by the colo-
nies to promote emigration. Fearing that the Lancashire
distress in the coming winter would be exceedingly severe.
he deemed it wise to give every power to the authorities
that might possibly tend, in their discreticono,ntloa manityigpaotrettihone
misery that prevailed. (Hear, hear.)
of the £200,000 to be raised under this bill be devoted to
emigration ?
Mr. VILLIERS
rreoplietdo twhhattethlaeatgtuhaerdpiraenasenctoutlidraueseththeye
formoney
could devote the ordinary poor rates. (Hear.)
Mr. COBDEN thanked the rig hon. gentleman (Mr.
Villiers) for the patience and zeal wht
hich he had devoted to
the alleviation of the distress in Lancashire. (Hear, hear.)
The motion would be inapplicable, because the session was
nearly at an end, and it would be requisite to send out to
Australia to get the co-operation of the authorities there to
assist iu the work. He had inquired at the Colonial-office,
and found there was not ls. in hand, so far as the colonies were
concerned, to assist emigration. (Rear, hear.) Then the
Queensland Company, and indeed, the Emigration Office,
in prescribing the nature of persons helped to emigrate,
omitted factory operatives, because there is no field of ope-
rations for them. The operatives themselves—especially
such as lived together in parishes, receiving from £llos to
£2 per week—objected to emigrate. If so, they would have
heard a good deal about it. It would be cruel to ship off
people to the antipodes, without being sure they would
do well when they got there. Queensland was
one of their youngest colonies, and with a small
population, and possibly in a few months they might learn
that this population was too great for its resources. He
advised the working people not to emigrate to any place
except they were pretty well certain that they would be
able to do well for two or three years abroad, and not to be
carried away by such ill-advised schemes for their so-
called benefit, as that advocated by Dean
,Close, who, in a
recent case, desired to consign a number of emigrants to
the care of Captain Pitt, an aide-de-camp of the governor,
without being satisfied that they would do well there.
Sir B. LEIGHTON supported the motion.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER hoped the
debate would bear some fruit, and that the house would
quickly divide upon the motion. He defended the right hon.
gentleman (Mr. Villiers) from some expressions cast upon
him with respect to his address. His right hen. friend simply
meant to contend that it was no part of the functions of the
Government to direct and control emigration. The right
hon. gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) then
entered into an explanation of the existing acts bearing
upon the matter at issue, and argued that this was no time
to lay down a new principle of operation, seeing that these
acts were deliberately enacted, and when wages and comforts
of the industrial classes were being generally enhanced.
The factory operatives were not a class of emigrants who
would succeed in the colonies. Moreover, the bill was only
sought to be enacted for six months, so that it would be
futile to place this clause within it. Our colonies had be-
haved nobly in regard to the Lancashire distress, and it
would be unfair to send them shoals of emigrants for whom
they had no need. He should, therefore, vote against the
motion. (Cries of "ivithdraw.")
Mr. DODSON supported the motion.
Mr. CHILDERS withdrew his motion so that the
house might go into committee, when he should preposo a
clause that would, he hoped, meet with the approval of
the Government.
After a few words in explanation, by Mr. HORNBT and
Mr. FERRAND,
The motion was withdrawn.
The house then went into committee,
On clause 1,
Mr. POTTER proposed to add the following proviso :
Provided always, that the sections 3 and 5 of the said Act
shall be construed and read as if the words " one shilling
and sixpence" had been there inserted in lieu of the words
" three shillings."
Mr. VILLIERS said he had fixed the amount at 3s, after
minute inquiry, and believed it would work well.
Atter a short discussion the amendment was withdrawn,
and the clause passed.
Mr. TOLLEMACHE proposed the following clause :
That section 3 of the act of last session, as extended by this
act, shall be read and construed as if the words " six shil-
lings and sixpence," were substituted in that section for
five shillings."
Mr. VILLIERS assented to the amendment, so that the
clause will stand at 6s. 6d.
In reply to Sir H. IV ILLOIT WIRY,
Mr. VILLIERS intimated that the rate of interest
would be similar to that paid on account of public works.
The remaining clauses were agreed to.
Mr. CHILDERS desired to propose an amended clause
with respect to emigration.
Mr. VILLIERS asked his hon. friend to propose the
clause on the report.
The sitting terminated at 4 o'clock.
The house resumed at six o'clock.
EMPLOYMENT OF CHILDREN IN POTTERIES.
Mr. FERRAND gave notice that on Thursday ho would
ask whether the Government intended in the ensuing next
session to introduce a measure placing children employed
in potteries and paper-tube factories under the protection
of the Factory Acts. And also whether their attention had
been directed to the great destruction of human life for
many years past by the bursting of steam boilers, and if so,
whether they were of opinion that steam boilers ought to be
placed under Government inspection.
Mr. lIIBBEPRUTBgLavIeC
notice
eCthUaTt leOarNlyS.
next session he
should call attention to the demoralisation caused by public
executions, and to the desirability of capital punishments
being carried out within the interior of prisons.
INDIAN CIVIL SERVICE.
In reply to Mr. VANSITTART,
Sir C. WOOD said he was quite aware that complaints
existed of promotions not being as rapid amongst the civil
servants of the North-Western Province of India ae it was
in Bengal, but the matter was one with which the Home
Government did not interfere, as all appointments were
made by the Governor-General and lieutenant-governor of
the province.
NAVAL OFFICERS ON FOREIGN STATIONS.
Lord NAAS asked the Secretary to the Admiralty
whether orders would be issued to naval officers on foreign
stations, forbidding them to attack the ports or ships of
friendly powers without a declaration of war or distinct in-
struetiona from the Rome Government. He asked the Ties-
ion, in consequence of what was stated to have taken place

at Tringanu.
Lord C. PAGET said instructions were given to our naval
officers generally not to engage in hostilities, or have re-
course to violence, without the sanction of their superior
officers. And the officers at Tringanu had received positive
instructions not to engage in any hostilities without the
sanction of the Governor-General of India or the Governor
of Bombay.
THE SANITARY CONDITION OF THE INDIAN
ARMY.
In reply to Mr. CONINGHAM,
Sir C. WOOD said that already certain improvements had
been introduced into the arrangements for preserving the
health of our Indian army, and that still more effective mea-
sures remained to be taken in pursuance of the recommen-
dations of the sanitary commision.
THE CHANNEL FLEET.

Sir H. BRUCE asked whether the Channel fleet would
be permitted to anchor for a few days in Loch Foyle during
their cruise this summer.
Lord C. FAGET said that the magnificent Channel
squadron, as he might justly designate it, consisting as it
did of five iron plates, was now in progress round the north
of Scotland ; and he hoped it would touch at the principal
ports, weather permitting, as the admiral had discretion to
do so. So possibly the port alluded to by the hon, baronet
would receive a visit.
TtnahalalktEethaCeHUßCH BUILDING AND NEW PARISHES
bill, buts LThe SOLI 0 GENERA was understood to say
In reply to Mr, HRA. DFIELD,
In reply to Mr.
TORNEY-
enog:ttohti
ihdeeei did
discharge
acritng tee no df
the te
orproceedder hewith w
would
and Equity
IRISH LAW AND EQUITY COMMISSION.,
THE IN ED ofNI
theT htaebAlelbefore the endG
Commissioners could be laid upon
Irish Law
Mr. A. MILLS proceeded to L.
address to the Crown for the appointmentt
consti-
tution of the Secretary of
State
ecall attention to the GtianetevmmernAoevnCmitT AMENDMENT BILL.
for India, and to move an
com-
mission to inquire and report whether of a Royal com-
and what altera-
tions might be advantageously adopteadny-
m the Home Go-
vernment of India, as constituted by the act 21 and 22 Vie.,
c. 106. He would assume that the Government
right with regard to the amalgamation of the Indhiad acted
with the Imperial forces, but still that very act proved the
impotency of the Indian Council, all the members of which
were opposed to amalgamation. The noble lord at the head
of the Government bad moved a clause the object of which
Aw:eoeuks.aNicimthe report of the
was to make it not only optional, but incumbent on Parlia-
ment to reconsider the constitution of the Council, and this
view was supported at the time by Lord Russell,Mr. Wilson
then a member of that house), Mr. Bright, and many other
members who had
given *eclat attention to Indian ques-
tions. The Secretary of State for India might separate himself
from his council whenever he pleased and reject the counsel
of the men appointed to advise him ; and, while he acted
upon his own responsibility, neither Parliament nor the
country knew anything about what he was doing. He woul
not suggest any remedy for what he deemed to be a great
evil in the system of administering the affairs of India ; but
would simply ask the house and the Government to do what
the noble lord at the head of the Government had said at
the time the measure for the appointment of the Indian
Council was under discussion, namely, that after the lapse
of five years it would be incumbent upon Parliament to re-
consider the matter,
Mr, BAZLEY seconded the motion. It apr"

,ared fp him,

having regard to the condition of Lancashire, that some
changes were necesssary with regard to the administration
of the affairs of India. He believed great discrepancies
existed between the services in India, and that the medical
service had good ground for complaining of inadequate
rewards. He hoped the Minister of India would take a
considerate view of the proposition of his hon. friend,brought

forwari in so moderate a manner; and as it was too late to
do anything in the present session, that the matter would
be kept in view during the recess, so that some measure
might be introduced next year which would lay the baeis
for the welfare of India, and at the same time provide for
thd commercial prosperitylof the' people at home,

Sir C. WOOD said, with regard to what had fallen from
the hon. gentleman who had just sat down, he thought he
had distinctly stated on a former occasion what had been
dote by the Government of India, and that nothing had
been omitted which was deemed to be of advantage to the
people of India and to the commercial benefit of this country.
Whatever had been done had been done with the entire ap-
proval of a large majority of the council ; and the only
question upon which a difference of opinion took place
was with reference to the sale of waste lands. The hon.
member opposite had said that he might be asked why he
had brought forward the motion, and it seemed to him that
the hon. member had good reason for patting the question,
as he had not advanced one argument in support of it. The
hon. member had not instanced one fault, one case of ne-
glect; but, on the contrary, had stated that he did not im-
pute any blame for the non-performance of duty either to
himself or the council over which he had the honour to pre-
side. The only reasons given in support of the motion were
the opinions of certain members of that house on a former
occasion. But after the experience which he now possessed,
he could only say that he had every reason to be satisfied
with the number and constitution of the present council;
and he was glad to have that opportunity of expressing the
obligations he was under to those gentlemen who, though
having been members of the old council, and being placed
in a difficult position, had yet worked in a cordial manner
in the administration of the affairs of India; and the coun-
-1 cil themselves were also satisfied with the manner in which
things were conducted. The noble lord opposite, who was
the author of the bill appointing the council, had stated that
the Minister of India was to be surrounded by those mem-
bers of the council who were men of great experience, and
who could give him the best advice ; but still that the Mini-
ster would be bound in every case to act upon his own single
and individual responsibility. (Hear.) He had followed the
example of the noble lord,
and claimed the right of taking
or not taking the advice of the council, and acting upon his
own responsibility, Did the hon. member mean to say that
his Parliamentary liberty was to be fettered, and that he was
to be prevented from bringing forward any measure which
he thought to be for the good of the country, because he
differed from his own council ? The amalgamation of the
Indian army was not a purely Indian question, but an Im-
perial question, and, although the council were opposed to
the measure, still it was supported by a large Parliamentary
majority, and proved successful. (No, no, from Col. Sykes.)
He did not expect the hon. and gallant gentleman to con-
cur in that opinion ; but it could not be denied that Par-
liament had approved of the measure. He could only say
that he was satisfied with the council, and that it would
be impossible for the Secretary of State to go on without
the council.
Col. SYKES said the right hon gentleman had himself
fully established the fact, that upon a question affecting the
interests of several thousand officers he had set at nought
the unanimous opinion of the council, although they were
to be his advisers and mentors upon all questions relating to
India. He could tell the right hon. gentleman that the
amalgamation of the Indian army with the Imperial forces
was producing a feeling of rankling discontent in India,
and the present system might, at some future day, lead to a
mutiny or some other terrible convulsion in India. The hon.
and gallant member then contrasted the old system under
the Court of Directors with the present council, and said
that while every member of the old. board could give notice
o 1 motion and discuss any question he thought proper, like
members of that house, the existing council could initiate
nothing, but 'were ruled absolutely by the Secretary of
State, who in his way was as great a despot as Alexander or
Darius.

Sir E. COLEBROOKE said he would be willing to
strengthen the council, and that they should be allowed to
be elected members of Parliament, although he was not
quite sure but that this might have a contrary effect. At
present it could not be denied but that the right hon, gen-
tleman had everything his own way in the council, for ho
was backed by a strong Government, at the head of which
was the noble viscount, who enjoyed so much popularity.
But there might not be a strong Government always in
power, and in this case he could suppose the council would
rise in importance and pessess greater influence.
Lord STANLEY said the questions proposed to be raised
were not questions of detail, but questions of general policy,
upon which the house had expressed a deliberate opinion five
years ago ; and inasmuch as they were all matters for full
debate by that house, and not by a select body of gentle-
men, he hoped the motion would not be pressed.
Mr. KINNAIRD said that after the opinions that had
been expressed, his hon. friend would withdraw his motion.
Sir H. WILLOUGRI3Y also thought that a commission
was not desirable, and asked whether, when the Secretary
of State for India differed from his council, he recorded the
grounds for his dissent in writing ?
Sir C. WOOD said there was no obligation upon the Se-
cretary of State or any member of the council to state the
reasons for his opinions upon any question, though he might
occasionally have done so.
Mr. MILLS then withdrew his motion.
ARMY PRIZE PROPERTY.
Col. NORTH then rose to move an address to her Ma-
jesty, praying for a royal commission to inquire into the
realisation of army prize property, and its mode of distribu-
tion, and into the cause of the extraordinary delays which
had in most cases occurred in its distribution to the captors,
with a view to a remedy for the same. The hon. and gal-
lant colonel then alluded to the enormous delays that had
occurred in the distribution of the prize money from India,
which, in some cases, to the disgust of the army, had been
kept back so many 3 ears that not one-fifth of the rightful
claimants survive (Hear.) The amouut of unclaimed
and was no less than £1,163,339, and
prize money now % band
the interest en it was £253,587, all of which ought to have
been divided amongst those entitled to it long ago. He much
regretted to find that £556,7e2 out of that fund had been
gs. He thought that those were not proper
applied to Chelsea Hospital, and £40,000 for army school-
masters'buildin
appropriations of the money.
Lord PA.LMERBTON said that her Majesty's Govern-
ment had no objection to accede to the motion of the
hon, and gallant officer. because they thought it might
prove very advantageous in many respects. It might be
as well, however, to omit the word " extraordinary" from
the terms of the motion ; because, in the first place,
it seemed to .mplY censure, and, secondly, because it did
not in tru'ett represent the fact. (A laugh.) He had
often felt, the injury that was done to the service by the
delays. in Filming
the prize-money, but whenever he had at-
tempted to inquire into the matter he had always been met
by the reply, that there were so many things requisite
was
to be
done before the money was distributed, that the delay
unavoidable. An inquiry would therefore probably be of
great
thein showing the truth of that matter, be-
cause, fact, the more generally the reasons for
advantage
it
were
it were known the better. Ono great evil of the delay in
distributing the prize-money were that the claimants were
disposed to sell their claims for a small present payment, so
'that when it came to be paid at last, the bulk of it went to
a lot of speculators, who made a large profit it. It would be
an object with her Majesty's Government to see that the
commission was composed of such elements of information
and authority as should render it satisfactory to the house
and to the country. (Hear.)
Sir S, NORTHCOTE—The noble lord would not forget
to take into consideration the necessity for some legal and
properly constituted tribunal to settle questions of disputed
claims amongst officers.
Sir C. WOOD complained that the hon. baronet had im-
properly gone into the merits of the Kirwes and Banda
prize-money question upon the motion before the house,
after the noble lord at the head of the Government had
spoken, which precluded him from replying to the statements
the hon. baronet had made, instead of confining himself to
the proposition with which he commenced his speech.
The motion as amended, by striking out the word " ex-
traordinary " before "delay," was then agreed to.
FIRE INSURANCES.

Mr. H. B. SHERIDAN moved the following resolu-
tion : " That, in the opinion of this house, the duty now
chargeable upon fire insurances is excessive in amount,
that it prevents insurance, and should be reduced at the
earliest opportunity." Numerous petitions had been pre-
sented to the house from corporate bodies, merchants,
and others, in support of a change in the amount of duty
chargeable upon fire insurances; and that, together with
the numerous communications he had received iu reference
to the subject, was his reason for bringing it under the no•
tice of the house. After explaining the causes which had
led to the delay in his not bringing it forward at an earlier
period, he said he was at a loss to understand on what
grounds his motion was to be resisted by the Chancellor of
the Exchequer. Last session he obtained leave to introduce
a bill upon the subject: but he did not proceed with it be-
cause he understood it was to be taken up as an instruction
to her Majesty's Government that they should take up the
subject, and propose a reduction of the duty. He urged that
a reduction of duty would have the effect of increasing the
revenue by the great additional amount of property which
would be insured. He considered the duty a -mistake. At
present the revenue derived from insurances amounted to
li million, and represented one thousand millions of insur-
able property. He proposed that there should be a present
reduction of la per cent. on all insurable property, and at
the end of five years a further reduction of Is, which would
then leave the duty at ls, and there he proposed to step I
-
The annual increase of insurable property in this cone' '.
1
said to bo a minimum of the annual incres. --4 only
was calculated at £50,000 per annum, but it coul, -"TY
be
the country. Taking the impulse -- '
_O, of the wealth of
insurance by the reduetie- . gmich would be given to
£50,000 annual inc.,- .., of the duty, and add to it the
more than c- -ease during the first fivo years, it would
did limo ..mpensate the loss of the Is. duty. So little
consider the loss (if any arose), that a little less
1
money spent in our costly experiments at Woolwich, and
also in the construction of iron ships, would more than cover
it. In support of his proposition the lion, member referred

to the fact that 100 corporations and 70 chambers of com-
merce had petitioned in favour of the reduction, and con-
cluded by expressing a hope that the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer would eventually see his way to the total abolition
of the duty, which was as much a tax on prudence as an
encouragement to the opposite quality.

Mr. COX seconded the resolution.
Mr. HUBBARD supported the resolution, pointing out
that the Government took one-twentieth of the value of the

property to be insured before an insurance could be effected.
The tax being a tax upon property, it ought to be uniformly
and equally levied; whereas, not only was it not levied upon
all property, but it was not even levied upon all property
of the same character. The owner of Tyburnia, Belgravia,

or of a whole county had ao occasion to insure—he was his
own insurer. The man obliged to insure was the small
man, to whom a fire was ruin. It was evident, therefore,
that the tax was unequal in its incidents ; the poor were
taxed and the rich went flee. The hon. gentleman then pro-

ceeded to analyse the blue book, which had been crawn up
by Mr. Coode, and which had been circulated by the Go-
vernment amongst the members, and he affirmed that that
gentleman had attempted to perpetrate an arithmetical
fraud upon the House of Commons. In conclusion, he sug-

gested that a tax might be imposed on the export of iron.

which would enable the Chancellor of the Exchequer to
surrender the fire insurance duty.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
although there were two questions brought under conside-
ration, the real and only one before the house was that,
whatever the merits or demerits of fire insuance might be,

the resolution of the hon. member was one which should be
sanctioned by the house. The hon. member was pleased
to quote a declaration of his on a former occasion, to the
effect that a reduction of this duty, like the reduction of
most other duties, would be followed by an increase of re-
venue ; and on this ground claimed his support of the mo-
tion. He was ready to admit that the question was one
proper to be considered in relation to other questions, with
a view to diminution; but beyond this he could not travel
with the tion member. He had occasion recently to make
a computation of the wealth of the country, and,
although he took for his basis the surest data
he could find, yet he was almost afraid lest some of his cal-
culations would rise in judgment against him. But his
calculations looked contemptible by the side of the hon.
member's figures. A thousand millions sterling was the
hon. member's estimate of the wealth of the country.
Mr. SHERIDAN explained that what he said was, that
the estimate of a thousand millions had been made out, but
he was willing to leave it at two hundred millions.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER resumed—
A. thousand millions was at least five more than the first
computation, and he could not help saying that it was
a dangerous practice to quintuple estimates in debate.
With regard to the blue. book, about which so much
had been said by the hon. member for Buckingham
(Mr. Hubbard), he could only say that Mr. Coode had
been directed by Sir George Lewis to examine into the
question, and without pledging himself to every statement
in the book, still he thought the report, upon the whole, had
put the question upon a more intelligible footing. But Mr.
Coode was entitled to some favour, for bow could it be pos-
sible for the hon. member to find materials unless he had
ready to hand the 70 pages of this report ? (A laugh.) The
right hon. gentleman, after referring to the fact that the
duty on fire insurances kept pace with the increase in the
actual wealth of the country since 1816, and showing that
the insurance on farming stock, though not equal to that
upon other commodities, had greatly increased, entered into
the consideration of abstract resolutions, such as that now
proposed, and contended that it was a flagrant breach of the
duty of the house to give a preference to any particular tax
for reduction. The hon. member did not deny the object,
which was that the House of Commons should write down
this tax No. 1 for reduction on the first opportunity.
Against this course he should enter his protest ; for abstract
resolutions invariably interfered with the necessary financial
arrangements of the Government. The hon. gentleman
was known to have more than once made the observation
that private members werealways, in the eyes of the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer, either too soon elite° late. (Hear,
from Mr. Sheridan,) He claimed the right to say of certain
measures, that they were too soon or too late. There was
always a present between the past and the future, and when
the house was asked to pass an abstract resolution, they
should never forget the memorable instance of paper duty.
All abstract resolutions were bad, and a motion for reduction
of a particular tax should take place when other financial
questions were before the house. He should lay down
that proposition broadly, without beating about the bush
to move the previous question, and would oppose the mo-
tion, becouse he believed it was his duty to the country to
do so.

After a few words from Mr. HANKET, and from Mr.
SHERIDAN in reply,
The house divided. The numbers were—
For the motion
Against it .. 67
Majority ..
(Cheers.)

The resolution was agreed to.
FELLOWSHIP PORTERS (LONDON.)

Mr. AYRTON moved for a select committee to inquire
into the treatment of the fellowship porters by the corpora-
tion of London. They complained that the £12,000 a year
which had been exacted for years from their earnings to pro-
vide a relief fund when they became poor and distressed,
had been squandered by the Corporation cf London.
Sir J. SHELLEY seconded the motion.

Mr. CRAWFORD opposed the motion. The Corporation
had only exercised certain powers conferred on them by the
Legislature. They had no interest in the matter, and the
hon. and learned member for the Tower Hamlets had un-
duly exaggerated the alleged grievance. The Common
Council had inquired into the matter, but it appeared the
result was not satisfactory to a certain few of the fellow-
ship porters. Of 600 of them 400 had presented a petition
against the inquiry as unnecessary. The dissatisfied per-
sons wished to wind-up the concern and appropriate the
fund amongst themselves.
Mr. BRUCE said it was not a fit subject for inquiry by a
select committee, and opposed the motion. It was only a
dispute between the potters and the corporation, and the
most fitting place for investigation was in a court of justice.
Sir J. SHELLEY soid they had so other tribunal to
apply to than a select committee of that house. He hoped
the motion would be renewed next session.
The motion was then withdrawn.
BANDA AND KIRWEE PRIZE MONEY.

Sir S. NORTHCOTE moved that an humble address
be presented to her Majesty, praying that she would be
graciously pleased to give such directions in the matter of
the Banda end Kirwee booty or prize-money as her Majesty
might be advised by the law officers of the Crown or by
some competent judicial authority. He explained, in the
early part of the evening, when be referred to this matter,
that he had no desire to act discourteously towards the Go-
vernment. The booty arose out of the late mutiny, and tee
question was whether the column under Sir H. Whitelock,
who took those towns was a part of Sir H. Rose's force,
and the latter entitled to share with the former.
Sir 'AI. FAR QUHA.R seconded the motion.
Lord PALMERSTON said the noble lord the member

for Ling's Lynn (Lord Stanley) had already moved for
papers sonneeted with the case, and he therefore suggested
that the house would wait to see those papers before com-

jug to a decision on the question. His own opinion, founded
upon Lord Clive's memorandum, was that the fund should
be divided between the two columns, inasmuch as he
did not consider General Whitelock's an independent
command.
Ultimately the motion was withdrawn, on the under-
standing that the papers would be shortly laid upon the
table, and that no action would be taken in the matter until
the house had full opportunity for consideration and dis-
cussion.