The Sun.
London, England, 1839-06-05 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, WEDESDAY, JUNE 5, 1839

the Tory party—he did not know. He made these re-
. marks with the deepest regret. It was with pain, regret,
and sorrow that he saw the course the Ministers were
, determined to pursue. Their fate was sealed, because
a general election, he had no hesitation in saying, would
give the Tory party a majority of sixty or seventy.—
(Cheers, and cries of " Oh, oh.") The Right Hon.
Baronet said that no man disliked bribery and corrup-
tion more than he did. The honour of the Right Hon-
ourable Baronet forbade him to doubt the accu-
racy of the statement, but would any man out of
a Lunatic Asylum, say that be believed that the Tory
party hated bribery and intimidation.—(Groans.)
He liked those groans—to him they appeared the
workings of a troubled conscience. If they were such
haters of intimidation, why not throw the shield of
the Ballot around the voters ? He was not dis-
heartened with the aspect of affairs. He was satis-
fied that the country would soon awaken to her true
interests, and insist upon being properly represented
in that House, and it would be impossible for any
party to resist the demands of a united empire.
Mr. SLANEY had heard the manly' declarations of
the Noble Lord with the greatest satisfaction.—(Dis-
approbation.) He had always voted for reform, and he
thanked the Noble Lord for having acted in such a man-
ner as precluded the necessity of his (Mr. S.) voting
against him. He believed the great body of the re-
flecting people of the country were satisfied with the
Reform Bill as it at present stood, and if they were to
go to the country upon the question, only the moderates
of each party would be returned.
Mr. P. HO WARD should grieve if such a motion
should be conceded without similar concessions to Scot-
land and Ireland, because great dissatisfaction would be
produced.—(Laughter from the Tories.) If conces-
sions were made to county voters, without extending
it to towns, no permanent satisfaction would be given.
During the progress of the Reform Bill, he had voted
with the Noble Lord ; and if there were no other rea-
sons for inducing bim to stand by the, Noble Lord on
this occasion, it would be that he coveted not the igno-
miny of deserting his friends in danger.—(Laughter.)
Sir H. FLEETWOOD replied. He had heard no
arguments adduced against the Bill ; but as the princi-
ples of Reform might probably be better carried out by
his withdrawing the Bill, he would do so if Honourable
Members had no objection.—(Cries of " No, no.")
Before they went to a division, be wished to place, in
a right point of view, the declaration made by the Noble
Lord (Russell). He understood
_Lim to have said that
he did Rot, at the present period, give any support to the
measure, and that he would not promise to support it
on any future occasion ; but the Noble Lord had not
stated anything which could induce any one to consider
that he had pledged himself to oppose it if brought
forward at a future time.--(Laughter from the Tories.)
The gallery was then cleared for a division. The
numbers were—
For the Bill
Agairut it

Majority against the 8i11....,, 126
The Bill is consequently lost.

ELECTION OF CORONERS.
Sir H. FLEETWOOD then moved for leave to
bring in a bill to limit the taking of the poll at the
election of Coroners for counties to one day, and for
increasing the number of polling places.
Mr. WAKLEY said that some alteration was neces-
sary in the law respecting Coroners, but he did not like
this sort of patch-work. If the Hon. Member would
withdraw his Bill he (Mr. W.) would, in another Ses-
sion, give him all the aid in his power.
Mr. PAKINGTON objected to the Bill being
brought forward at:this late period of the Session.
Mr. J. JERVIS thought it would be better that the
Bill should bo printed in order that Hon. Members
might be aware of its nature.

After a few words from Mr. WYNN, and Mr.
CRIPPS,

Mr. O'CONNELL said there were many evils in
the; existing system—among them the length of the
elections—( Hear, hear)—and he thought the Bill
should at least be introduced.—(Hear.)
The Bill was then ordered to be brought in.
REGISTRATION OF ELECTORS.
Mr. E W ART was to have moved for a Bill to ren-
der final the Registration of Electors. To both parties
this measure would be exceedingly beneficial. The re-
gistration would by this Bill be rendered final till the
next return of the Revising Barristers; and the Com-
mittees of that House would be prevented from entering
into questions of disqualification, which had not been
entered into before the Revising Barristers. The Bill
would extend to counties, and would also extend to
Ireland. However, as during his absence from the
House, the Hen. Member for Ipswich (Mr. Gibson)
had introduced a Bill with a similar object, he would
withdraw his own motion, and endeavour to render the
Bill of the Hon. Member as perfect as possible.
POOR LAWS.
Mr. WAKLEY moved for copies of communications
to or from the Poor Law Commissioners, relative to the
erection of a workhouse in Dunmow, Essex. He would
reserve his statement for a future occasion.
The Returns were agreed to.
EDUCATION.

Lord ASHLEY moved that the House be called
over on Friday, the 14th June, the day upon which
the subject of„Natiqual Education_ is_ to
House. The Noble Lord opposite

motion.—(A laugh.)

cße

Lord JOHN RUSSELL said he certainly would,
according to his promise, second the motion.—(-Hear,
hear.) In doing so, he wished to notice some misre-
presentations which had gone abroad as to the tendency
ifmoopaodseid m
po upon
impossible
the
to
adoptwhoe
l
and nature of the proposed scheme. It had been said
othoautntirty.wasNotow,beit uniformly
beenformly
the principle either of the National Society, or of the
British and Foreign School Society—the former being
exclusive to the Church, the other excluding
religious
instruction by the teachers of different creeds. It had,
therefore, been proposed to have a chaplain of the
Established Church—taking care at the same time
that the children of all Dissenters be instructed in their
peculiar doctrines. Another mistake had been gathered
from a few words in the Privy Council report ; that
with regard to Roman Catholic children, they might
use their own version of the Scriptures ; from which it
had been inferred, that both versions would be used in-
discriminately, and then, it would be argued—not un
naturally if the fact were so—that by the use of ver-
sions which differed in some respects (though not so
much as had been stated sometimes) there would be
confusion and doubt in the minds of the children—an
argument which would not apply, however, for the ver-
sions were to he employed separately and distinctly,
confined respectively to the children of each persuasion ;
and it ought to be remembered, that at the present
time, pauper children in workhouses, were permitted
to have religious instructors of their own sects ;
and, of course, the Roman Catholic teachers
would use Catholic and not Protestant books of in-
struction.—(Hear, hear.) Yet this and other topics
had been dwelt upon with such determined misrepre-
sental.ion as would be an effectual obstacle against
carrying into operation at present the Government
plan. The excessive eagerness upon this subject which
had been manifested in some quarters was really sur-
prising. He had that day received a letter informing
him that a clergyman had actually in his sermon read
the petition against the Government scheme—(Hear,
hear)—and he had also received a placard, calling upon
the public to petition against the Government plan,
" for excluding all religious instruction from national
education," which was a gross misrepresentation, for
certainly, whatever faults were alleged against this
scheme it could not be justly charged with de-
ficiency of religious instruction. (Loud cries of
Hear, hear.")
It had been urged as an objec-
tion to the Government plan that thereby the children
of different persuasions would he so mingled together
that their religious belief would be unsettled, and infi-
delity produced. It was extraordinary that this zeal
should have slumbered so long, till, according to the re-
ports of the inspectors of prisons and the gaol chap-,
lains, hundreds of prisoners, in all parts of the country,
were to be fouud utterly ignorant, not merely of the
elementary arts of reading and writing, but even of the
existence of a God.—(Hear, hear.) He hoped that
the discussions upon this subject would have the effect
of promoting the great object of education. For him-
self he would be perfectly satisfied to bear all
the obloquy which had been directed against the
Government respecting this proposal,---if he be-
lieved that the extent of ignorance in this country
would be diminished.—( Hear, hear, hear.) Under
all these circumstances the Government did not propose
at present to found the normal school, but only to
dis-
tribute the education grant as usual, between the Na-
tional, and the British and Foreign School systems. At
the same time, with that he was far from being satisfied.
He was glad to find that sinca his address to his con-
stituents the subject of education had been much more
discussed than it bad formerly been. He trusted that
the opinion of the great majority of that House would
be that they ought to promote education on the princi-
ples of Christianity, and secondly, that in promoting it
they would not exclude from it persons dissenting from
the Church. After what he had stated he would leave
;experience he had never witnessed
it to the Noble Lord to follow his own course.
Cheers.) He
Mr. GOULBURN said that during the whole of
his parliamentary ;ex
oofppseocsoitoed.—ing( a
the adoption of a course so extraordinary as that pur-
sued by the NobleLrd
had taken the opportunity motion for
a call of the House to discuss one of the most im-
portant questions that could come under the considera-
tion of Parliament, namely, the general education of
the country. The Noble Lord, if he understood him
rightly, had now told the House that he had entirely
abandoned the plan, which no longer ago than Friday,
he had stated his determination to bring forward, and
for which he was anxious to have a full attendance in
that House.—(Cheering.) The Noble Lord bad taken
that opportunity to make attacks upon persons who had
presented petitions stating their conscientious scruples.
He (Mr. Goulburn) had:petitions from the University he
had the honour to represent, against the plan of edu-
cation that had been laid before the House, and had