The Sun.
London, England, 1837-02-01 00:00:00

THE KING'S SPEECH.

The SPEAKER then proceeded to read his Majesty's
Speech.
The Clerk read the speech.
Mr. SANFORD then rose and stated that as he was suf-
fering under very severe indisposition, he trusted that the
House would grant him that indulgence which he had so
often seen extended to others in the same situation, and in order
to merit that indulgence he would endeavour to be as brief
as possible in fulfilling that duty which fell upon him__
the endeavouring to induce the House to agree to that Address
which he would have the honour to move, and which, as
usual, was pretty much in accordance with the speech
of his Majesty. It must be a matter of great congratulation,
and one for which the country would be grateful to an over.
ruling Providence, that the country had been, for a period of
22 years, enjoying the great blessing of peace. Having seen
misfortunes which ovens helmed Europe for many years by the
war which desolated many countries, the people of this country
now knew the great blessing which they enjoyed by having
profound peace. It was also a sentiment in which every one
who bad heard the Speech read must agree, that every suc-
ceeding year would add to and cement those bonds which
happily now existed between this and foreign countries.—
( Cries of " Hear, bear, hear.") The people now with
their increased intelligence before them, were aware that
the real happiness of the great multitude was to be obtained
only by the blessings of peace.—( Great cheering.) What-
ever despotic moua-chs or crafty ministers might wish to
plunge countries into war, they would find that the people
would say that they would better consult their interests and
the interests of all countries, by:studying and applying their
minds to the system of commerce which now pervaded the
world ; they would find it impossible now to plunge any
country into war.—( Hear, hear, hear.) That was a subject
of congratulation. But the next paragraph of the Speech
must be the subject of regret to all those who wished well to
that country, with which England had been so long and
so intimately connected. It was more particularly the sub-
ject of regret that Spain should be plunged into such a
state of anarchy and confusion, considering the fine climate
which it enjoyed, the productive soil which it possessed, and
the natural facilities for commerce which belonged to it.
Upon looking to these things, they would at once see that
they proceeded from a system of despotic government ; a sys-
tem which led to the anarchy and confusion now com-
plained of. To it might be added the mischiefs which
resulted from a religious bigotry,keeping the people in a state
of subjection to a religious superstition. He trusted that a
new era had arisen, and that by the effective co-operation af-
forded by his Majesty's forces, peace would soon be established.
The next subject to which the Speech directed their attention
was the state of Portugal. In the case of Spain it was neces-
sary to send forward troops to the assistance of the Queen ;
but in Portugal there was no departure from the principle
of non-intervention, and no necessity to interfere between the
contending parties. The condition of Canada was next
adverted to. Until the Report of the Commissioners
was placed befo:e them, it would be quite impossible
tolsay what measures of Legislation should be introduced ; but
he hoped that they would be such as to preserve to Eng-
land those colonies which were so important to the mother
country, particularly in the view of encouraging emigration.
Many of these questions had been already brought forward,
and they must be again introduced ; and he trusted they would
meet a different fate in the present session, from what they did
in the last. A recommendation had been given by his Ma-
jesty, that an alteration should be made in the law of impri-
sonment for debt, and one for the establishment of local
courts throughout the country. Nothing could be more im-
portant than such measures, because he ( Mr. Sandford) had
bad an oppor.unity to see the distress arising from the difficulty
of collecting mail debts throughout the country. The credi-
tors were unable to obtain their just demands under the present
system, and some alteration should be made, either by giving
a greater power to the Magistrates at Quarter Sessions, or by
the introduction of local Courts.—(Hear.) He trusted
that the report of the Ecclesiastical Commissioners would be
carried into effect before the termination of the present ses-
sion, which would have the effect in his (Mr. Sandford 's)
opinion of confirming one expression in his Majesty's Speech,
wherein his Majesty expresses a hope " that such
further measures may be introduced as may give increased
stability to the Established Church and promote concord and
good will," which he, Mr. Sandford, was satisfied
it would do amoug all classes of his Majesty's sub-
jects. Nothing would tend more to promote this object
than the settlement of the Church Rate, and he trusted that
a measure upon that subject, would be speedily prepared.
It must be granted that the revenues of the country had greatly
increased, notwithstanding the great diminution that had taken
place in taxation of late years. This was the strongest proof
of the general prosperity of the country.—( Hear, hear.) He
must say that the commercial and manufacturing interests
were in a state of prosperity at the present 'moment.—
( Cheers.) He wished he could at the same time say this of
all the other classes of the community. He regretted to be
obliged to say that, comparatively speaking, the agricultural
interest was in a state of embarrassment. This he was bound
to say for that class to which he had the honour to belong,
that they had borne their distresses with patience ; and he was
happy to say that he believed that that honest and industrious
class was at this moment in a fair way of improvement.. It was
most satisfactory to him to know that such was the case, and the
more particularly when he considered the state of pressure from
which they were, as he hoped, recovering.—(Cheers.) At
the same time he was bound to say, and he thought
it only fair to those who entertained certain opinions with
regard to the agricultural interest, that he did not think
it was in the power of the Legislature to grant relief ;
and that their prosperity, which he hoped they would soon
enjoy, could not be derived from legislative interference. This,
he thought, was satisfactorily proved by the examinations that
had taken place in the Committee of which his Hon. Friend
(Mr. S. Lefevre) was Chairman. He (Mr. S. Lefevre) then
stated it was impossible fiur the Legislature to give relief, and
he (Mr. Sandford) cordially concurred in that opinion, viz.,
that the agricultural interest had more to expect from the
absence of legislation than from legislative interference. They
were indebted to his Hon. friend, the Member for Northampton,
for having brought that subject before the House. With regard
to the subjects mentioned in His Majesty's Speech, connected
with the Sister Country, knowing by whom he should have the
honour of being followed, he should leave that to him who was
more familiar with the matter. But there was one subject,
which of all others he believed to be one which would afford
the greatest satisfaction in that country—he meant the esta-
blishment of a Poor-law in Ireland. —( Hear.) No measure
could be introduced into that House which would give more
general satisfaction to the people of this and the Sister Country,
than a measure which they conceived would ameliorate the con-

dition of so many thousands in Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) Be-
fore he sat down he might anticipate a very different termi-
nation to this Session from that which unhappily had been the
termination of the last.—( Hear, hear. )—They had a great
authority for saying, that a house divided against itself could
not stand ; and if that were the case, they might well suppose
that a Constitution divided against itself could not stand.
He hoped that a new spirit would exist in the present Parlia-
ment, and regretted that want of corporeal strength prevented
him from giving utterance to his sentiments with greater effi-
ciency. The Hon. Member concluded by moving an Address
to his Majesty, which, as usual, was an echo of the Speech.
Mr. VILLIE RS STUART, in rising to second the
Address moved by the Hon. Member for Somersetshire, asked
for the indulgence of the House while he addressed them. It
was always a pleasing duty to ask the House to con-
cur in an Address in reply to the Speech from the
Throne, and however difficult might be the task he would
rather encounter its dangers than neglect it altogether. Tak-
ing into consideration the early assembling of the great Council
of the nation, he saw in it the anxiety of his Majesty to bring,
to a speedy adjustment the great questions which now occu-
pied the public attention. The assurance which his Majesty
gave them in the Speech from the Throne, of the anxiety
of Foreign Powers to continue their friendly relations to
this country, afforded a proof of the disposition
of these States to continue their present relations upon the
same terms which have been already found so extremely
beneficial to this country.—( Hear, hear.) It also showed
that the peace which we so long enjoyed was not maintained
by the sacrifice of the national honour or dignity. If his
Majesty were enabled to congratulate them upon the general
tranquillity of Europe, he regretted that Spain afforded a solitary
exception; but he was confident that that House would witness
with sincere joy the termination of the unfortunate conflict
which now raged in the Peninsula. Out of this tempo-
rary evil, however, a permanent good might arise,
and that gallant Nation, which had so often cemented
with its best blood its liberties, when attacked by foreign
foes, would prove itself no less determined in putting
down its more dangerous, because more treacherous, cue-
mies.—( Hear, hear, hear.)—He trusted that the free-
dom of S pin would be shortly based upon as solid a
foundation as our own, and that the gallant conduct of the
brave people of Bilboa and other places would not go without its
reward. It was a matter of congratulation that the Constitution
of that country was not fettered as others were, but was al-
most as free as our own. Having got so far through the
Speech, he came to that part of it which related to the
commercial concerns of this country—that was a topic
upon which he would say almost nothing, as he was then
in the presence of many Gentlemen who were much better
acquainted with that subject than he could possibly
pretend to be. He would, therefore, more particularly turn
his attention to a subject with which he was better acquainted.
The next topic of the Speech related to that country with
which he had the honour to be connected. If he had been gifted
with eloquence, it was a topic on which he could have spoken for
hours; but not being so, he would only express his hope that now
the great Council of the nation was assembled it would adopt
a conciliatory policy towards that country, and keep in view
that great and first principle upon which they should act,
that the prosperity of the United Kingdom would depend
upon the prosperity of all its parts. To make an ex-
ception to the general policy of the kingdom against one of
its parts was in his opinion one of the- worst things
that could possibly be done. The effects of the Union, in
order to be strengthened, must be real—must be of real be-
nefit to both parties.—( Cheers.) Until a conviction of that
kind was felt, the Union was in abeyance.—( Cheers.) It
was for them to bring home to the minds of the people that
they had an interest in being a united people, and that
to enjoy the same rights, the King had called their
particular attention to the subject of Municipal Corporations
for Ireland. To that portion of the Speech which alluded to the
Poor Laws for Ireland, he looked with particular satisfaction.
The Hon. Member referred to that panacea of a largo population
in want of employment, viz., a Poor Law for Ireland, which will
remove evils of the greatest hardship, and will attract the atten-
tion of the Legislature to the necessity of giving employment to
the poor. As to the next point of the Speech, which referred to the
the Reform of Municipal Corporations, the people of Ire-
land were entitled equally with English and Scotch sub-
jects, and had as strong claitns to loyalty as either of those
countries.—( Hear, hear.) It was a matter of pure satis-
faction that his Majesty had never expressed a want
of confidence in his Irish subjects—( Hear)—although
there were many who ascribed to themselves a peculiar loyalty,
and denied an equal right to give power to the Irish. —( Cheers.)
Such persons had no right to that especial loyalty, nor had
they any claim to stand between his Majesty and a
brave and generous people, whose loyalty was very simi-
lar in intensity to woman's love.—( Hear, hear, and laughter. )
True loyalty was uninfluenced by any selfish feeling* and what-
ever the treatment of his Majesty's Irish subjects might be, it
would bc a difficult matter to estrange their affections from
their Sovereign. The best means, however, of avoiding any
estrangement would be the adoption of a policy which would give
them the entire confidence of their English fellow-subjects.
If that line of policy was adopted Ireland would indeed be-
come happy, and England powerful. If not, he would say
indeed farewell, a long farewell, to all their hopes of tranquil-
lity and prosperity. If such a policy were adopted, he saw be-
fore him a gradual improvement in her affairs, instead of that
feverish excitement which has occupied the inhabitants of that
country upon political subjects, and which had rendered Ireland
a scene of agitation from end to end, and which had left the
mind of every man smarting under the sense of in.
sult and degradation which had been heaped upon
them.—( Hear.) That moment might be delayed, but it
could not be averted—he was quite satisfied that it would

speedily arrive. So long as it was delayed, so long would
the tranquillitys,be:delayed—so ' long would her prosperity be
delayed—and so long would the power of England
be paralysed. •For centuries England had treated Ireland like

a conquered country ; gradually-she had relaxed that system,
am' raised Ireland in point of law to an equality with herself ;
and he would now ask, would they venture to keep her in a state of
degradation in point of practice ? He was satisfied that they
could not—the moment that the Emancipation Bill was passed
they hod raised up another nation to an equality with them-
selves, and that, nation was determined to maintain
her position.—( [fear, hear, hear.) If thcre was a party
still existing in that country who were not satisfied with a fair
share of power, but were deter Mined to recur to the old state
of things and the old system of ascendancy, lie (Mr. V.
Stewart) would pray his Majesty's Ministers not to be led
away by their views, and not to let their policy be their guide
in legislating for that country. As as Irishman, deeply
interested in her prosperity, and having a deep stake
in the country with which he was connected, and by which he
must rise or fall, he would entreat of them not to be led away
by the policy of that party, by depriving his poor but happy
country of her fair share of the privileges which other por-
tions of the empire enjoyed.—( Hear, hear.) Whatever
line of policy might be adopted, much gratitude was, in his
opinion, (Inc to his Majesty- for the gracious manner
in which he had called the attention of Parliament
to the state of Irelami ; and he felt that in seconding
the motion that an humble address be presented to his
Majesty he was but fulfilling his duty as one of the representa-
tives for that country.—(The Hon. Member sat down amid
loud cheering.)
After the Address had been read from the Chair,
Mr. ROEBUCK rose, and said that as a silent vote upon the
Address might be construed into a general approbation of the
conduct of his Majesty's Ministers, he should, to save himself
from misconstruction, particularly under the present circum-
stances, say a few words to explain the reasons which induced
him to vote for the Address. He would now state why
he was compelled—differing as he did from them upon
many important questions, nevertheless, to give them that sup-
port which they would obtain from many Members on ilia side
of the House to maintain them in the position of Ministers,
though they could aiot give a general support to the principles
upon which the present Government was conducted. In doing
this it would be necessary to speak of the different parties
who were endeavouring to gain an ascendancy in this country,
and he would not have the meanness to shrink from the task,
although he would endeavour, whilst performing it, to
speak with no unnecessary asperity. He would, then,
endeavour shortly to state what lie thought the exact
condition of political parties in England, and more
particularly of that section, the democratic section
to which he belonged. In doing, this he would recommend a
policy to the democratic party in that House which a few
timid men in that House might disregard, which the dishonest
would not adopt, but to those who had judgment to de-
cide what was proper, and courage to follow it—who demanded
a frank, fair, open, and uncompromising- policy—of those he
, would claim the support. It appeared that at the present time
there was going on in this country, and not only in this coun-
try but in the world at large, a fearful struggle be-
tween two great principles of Government—the one
which endeavoured to make the many dominant,
and the other which endeavoured to maintain the domination
of the few. There were in this House two parties at the
present moment, the Tory or Aristocratic party, who were
ranged in an hostile but honest faction against the opinions
of the democracy, and this party formed, unfortunately as he
believed for England, a very large majority here. There
was another party, the democratic party who were a small,
and, to use a phrase that was not disagreeable to the other
side of the House, a miserable minority ; but the latter
party was supported by the people at large out of doors.
Supported then, as they were, by the masses out of doors,
the party which represented the aristocracy, wise as they were
in their generation, saw that there was no chance of defeating
them by open warfare, and they choose rather to oppose to them
as offshots of themselves in the persons of the Whigs.—( Cheers
from the Opposition benches.)— In 1830 the two antagonist
principles of which he spoke were brought into distinct array
against each other. At that time the people of England had
fully demonstrated to them that the monarchy of these realms
was not as had been supposed, but was, in point of fact, an
aristocratic republic. The people of England determined to
suffer the domination of a few, and had the aristocracy dared
to continue their opposition to the demands of the nation,
they would find themselves swept before the current of
popular opinion. In this state of things the Whig party,
headed by Lord Grey, offered their mediation, and by
means of it the Reform Bill was passed—that reform
Bill they were glad to receive, not as all they might
desire, but as an instalment of justice, as a means of
accomplishing more on the first feasible opportunity.
They took it as a stepping-stone to greater benefits.—( Hear.)
As soon as the Reform Bill was passed, a large portion of the
Whigs, with Lord Grey at the head, and the Noble Lord
opposite, ( Stanley), a strong partisan, deserted these principles,
and stuck to aristocratic government. They wished to stand
still, but it was found that the people of England would not per-
mit that,and then they threw themselves headlong into their aris-
tocratic fiction. Then came Lord Melbourne—he stood for-
ward as the mediator between the Whigs and the people—he
had a small section of the Whigs, and he sought such an al.

liance with the Radical section of that House. The people
believed that the Reform Bill brought into that House so
large a number of Liberal Members, that they thought the
will of the community would be predominant. The Radical
party was obliged to consult the wishes of the people,
and then they found themselves obliged to range themselves
under the banners of Lord Melbourne, under the name of Re-
formers. A large portion of the Whigs seemed to have no settled
or determined object—their only wish seemed to be to preserve
the aristocracy in all their privileges and usurpations, while at
the same time they were willing and anxious to take such a
share of popularity as they possibly could. There were some
who said the Whigs were sincere and ardent patriots ; there
was another section who said the Whigs were insincere, and
were only anxious to make use of the Reformers for their
own purposes; but the large and more influential section said
that, taking them as a whole they were better than the Tories,
and more could be got out of them.— (Tory cheers, which
were answered from the opposite side.) Then, after this
special understanding that their own peculiar interests
in this matter were to be consulted, and having some portion
of power over the Ministry by the union of the Whigs and
Radicals, it was the duty of the latter to endeavour to get for
the people a large measure of Reform. Acting upon the wish
of the people, the liberal party had ranged themselves under
the banners of Lord Melbourne, the only justification for
which was that the Whigs used large and general words in
relation to Reform. They did not call themselves
Whigs but Reformers ; that might mean anything after
the displays which bad taken place—even in the present
year that term might include all the Tories.—(Laughter.)
Even the Gentlemen opposite were Reformers—( Cheers)—
in so far as their own private interests were concerned, and
such was the case with the large body of the Reforming Whigs.
That was their gain—that was their feeling—that was how they
had taken the name of Reformers, because by so doing, and
by their onion with Radicals, they secured great benefits to
themselves. Two years ago they all said they loved Reform,
and hated Tory ism ; now the people who so hated Reform,
would also detest aristocratic dominion and bad laws, and they
believed that the Whigs cause before them with the determi-
nation to put down all irresponsible Government, whether it
was in the hands of friends or enemies.—(Hear, and cheers.)
Being perfectly cool—being perfectly collected, and well
aware of all the consequences of what be was about to
say, he felt obliged to declare, that the Whigs had
deceived the people. Cheers. )—Their words had been
one thing, while their acts had been another, and fell far short
of their words—in fact the people had now found out that they
were no better than the Tories.—(Loud cheers.) The
Whigs wished to maintain a majority in that House ; but how
did they attempt to do this ? Not by giving laws which
would enable the people to act according to their conscience in
the election of Members for Parliament; they endeavoured to
keep this country in a state bordering on revolution ; by
refusing the protection of the Ballot to the conscien-
tious voter, they left the voters at the mercy of those who
trampled upon them. This, at least, was ungenerous on the
part of the Ministry, who were kept in their places by the
exertions of those who suffered for those exertions. In fact,
the Ministry were kept in their places, by keeping the coun-
try in a state almost bordering on revolution—( Hear, hear)
in order to prevent as it was called an irruption of the Tories.
—(Laughter.) They were getting up Reform Associations,
and Associations for facilitating the registration ; but they re-
fused to give the protection of the Ballot which would
allow the voter to vote as he pleased.—(Hear hear.)
Do they believe that that was a healthful condition? Can
the will of the nation be developed by such force? The
Radical party fight hand to hand and foot to foot with the
aristocracy. The Reformers are called upon to make a fear.
ful sacrifice, or they will not be rendered able to tread down
their enemies.—(Hear, hear.)—lf the Whigs were serious,
let them give the nation means to express openly and
avowedly their opinions. Let them be real Reformers,
and there will be nothing to apprehend from the gentlemen
at the other side.—(hear, hear, and laughter.) The Whigs
have recourse to their old means of proceeding, and stand be-
tween the two parties. The sooner, therefore, that they were
removed from that condition, the better. Could it be said by
the gentlemen who came from Ireland,who said that nothing was
done for Irelrnd—what had his Majesty's Ministers done for
Ireland ?—( hear, hear.) He did not mean to say anything
against the administration of Lord Alulgrave in that country.
That administration was the redeeming part of the Whig Mi-
nistry. But in truth the appearance of good governor in that
country was a miracle.—( Hear.) Lord Malgrave may be
removed by death, or by a freak of fortune, or some
personal caprice, or by changes of a hundred kinds. What
then bad been done for Ireland by the Whigs ?—( Hear,
hear, hear.) Had there been a change in the law ?
any change in the administration of the law to secure the
blessings of good government to Ireland ? And, finally, was
there anything to secure the peace and tranquillity of that
country in future times ?—( Hear, hear, and cheers.)
The only way to eq.-At that would be either by a change in
laws, or by controi'lisg the opinion of the House of Lords, by
altering the formation of that House, or by so imposing
'upon them by a large majority of that House, as to
compel them not to resist it.—( Hear, hear.) Why had
they done so last year? Because they had so small a majority
in the House of Commons, that the Lords knew they dare
resist it, but he would ask that House would they have
dared to refuse a Corporation Bill to Ireland, if that majority
had been larger, or if instead of twenty or thirty, they
lied had 200 ? It was well known that the tactics of the other
party had been to reduce the power of Ministers in the House
of Commons ; and had not the Ministers, on the other hand,
set their faces against any alteration in the House of Lords, or
any improvement in the Commons, they allowed the people to go
to the poll with enthusiasm, but this did not afford them the means
of voting conscientiously.—(Hear, hear.) Then he would
say, that unless his Majesty's Ministers did something to re-
form the House of Lords or improve the House of Commons,
they could not pretend to be the friends of Ireland.—
( Hear, hear.) Speaking upon the subject of Ireland,
Gentlemen had talked souse time of the English Radicals as
being the enemies of Ireland. the • evils of Ireland were of
two very different descriptions—there were evils falling on the
Catholic gentry of Ireland placing them in an unfair position,
and there were evils affaeing the peasanty, vie., physical evils.
Now he (Mr. H.) would say that the Catholic Gentry
were using the latter evil as a lever to get rid of the first—that
they were employing the subject of the miseries of the people
to get rid of their own social evils. He was an enemy to
placing any other class of men in an unfair position.—
(Hear.) He sympathised, with them ; he believed it was an
unfair, unholy, and unjust position, and he would do all he
could to enable them to get rid of it—(Hear, hear, hear)__
but he was not one of those who would use the miseries of
the people as a means to get rid of those to which be
had alluded ; and if he were called upon to point out ono
case in which the Catholic gentry had used the miseries of
the people as a means of getting rid of their own evils, he
would call their attention to the feeling created about tithes
in Ireland..—( Hear, hear, from the Opposition benches.)
It was said that the tithes fell upon the Irish peasantry, and
they had pathetic declamations of how their poor pittance was
taken from them by the Protestant parson—(Cries of
" Hear, hear")—but those persons who gave them those horri-
ble declamations and harrowing descriptions never told them
that there were a class of persons called landlords who took
from the people all beyond the means of subsistence,
and if the Tithes were taken away to-morrow, the same
still would be the condition of the Irish peasantry. He was
one of those who believed that the Tithes were public
property, and he should not consent to any scheme for confis-
cating them to private purposes. He believed that Tithes in
Ireland should be applied for the public benefit and advantage
sacred to the people, and not to be given to the landlords,
whether Protestant or Catholic. Seeing these things,
hearing it admitted that tithe was really paid by
the landlords, he asked, was it wise, was it prudent,
or was it fair, to incite on the peasantry to resist the
demands of the proctor ?—(Cheers from the Opposition.)__
Tithe was, in fact, paid by the landlord. The peasant was
but the medium of doing so, and it was cruel to howl him on
to the struggle under the ignorant belief that he but waged
war against an unholy impost.—(Continued cheers from
the Opposition benches.) Seeing these things was
he to be told that he should be silent, that he should not
express what the real friends of Ireland really required ?
He told the House that the real friends of Ireland demanded
for that country a good Poor Law Bill. And if they con-
sented to give up the Tithes, it was upon the distinct under-
standing that the means of supporting the poor should come
out of the pocket into which the Tithe was put. Thus
the friends of Ireland combined two things.--(Hear,
hear, hear.) They proposed to abolish Tithe, and to
enact a salutary measure for the relief of the
destitute and the infirm, and obtain equal justice for all classes
of the people. These were what the Radicals demanded ; for
it they might be nicknamed, but he cared not what might be
said by any lion. or Learned Gentleman in that House . he
was convinced the thinking portion of the well-conditioned
people of England would distinguish between the friends of
Ireland, and those who made the peasantry's miseries a fulcrum
for the promotion of their own private purposes.—(Tremen-
dous cheers from the Opposition, and hear, hear, from Mr.
O'Connell.) The party with whom he (Mr. Roebuck) acted
proposed to carry out the principles they laid down, and which
would best promote the prosperity of the country, ob-
tain equal justice for England and for Ireland, repre-
sentative government for both, and equal laws for all.
He might be thought to have missed what was usually supposed
to be the bright part of the shield of his Majesty's Ministers ; but
he would again ask, was there any thing to redeem them in the
opinions of the people ? As far as regarded the laws of England
they bad been wholly idle. Nothing had been done which they
(the Whigs) had not been utterly compelled to do—they would
have got just as much from the most fierce of the Tories. They
had only got what they dared not refuse. If he looked abroad,
and there had been a good deal of talk of our foreign relations
did they find any cause for gratulation?—(Loud cheers from
the Tories.) Did they not find interference undignified and
useless.—(Loud cheers from the same quarter.) Did
they
not find interference useless and mischievous in Portugal "?
Had they not interfered to put down what they really preten-
ded to advance—liberal opinions ? Did they find any thing
in that part of the world to redeem them for their conduct
here ? No.—(Loud cheers from the Tories.) If they
looked abroad at the Colonies, was there any thing there to
redeem their reputation ? Why the Whig Administration had
been described in all the Colonies just the same as the
Tories. (Laughter.) They knew that in England
they had been obliged to do something, but the popular
will did not extend to the Colonies.., (Hear, - hear.)
England cared very little how the Colonies were governed, and
there the whole spirit and feeling of the Administration was
manifested—they were the same rampant revellers--they were
just the same as the Tories. Let it be recollected that the
present Administration had come in upon the popular will ;
they had been brought in on the backs of that will, in spite of
an adverse Court, and a strong majority in that House.- The
whole of their popularity was gone,—( " No.") His Majesty's

Ministers were daily losing ground.—( Cheers from the Tories,
but they were losing ground for no other reason than that they
were too much like the Gentlemen who had just cheered.—
( Great laughter.) -That was the reason why they were losing
ground, because they were like the Tories—because they were
doing nothing for good Government ; and the only means they
had of maintaining. The only way they had left open to them
to recover it was to give Ireland a Poor-law—( Hear, hear)—
to reform the laws in that country—to do away with tithes
there—and to give no fostering care to the Irish Church. In
England—to protect the voter by according the ballot—to
abolish the rate-paying clauses in the Reform Act—to ensure
by these means a majority in the House of Commons—to re-
form the system of jurisprudence, and to afford a cheap admi-
nistration of the laws. They should next go to the colonies,
and administer justice in the same manner to them, and then
let their neighbours alone, and not intermeddle in their affairs.
By doing all these—and all these alone—they might once
more become popular. But would they do these things!? He
for one did not think that they would. With this conviction,
he thought it right to tell the Radicals of England that it now
behoved them to put them to the test. The first thing that
should be done by the Radicals, when it became manifest to them
that nothing would be done, was to sever the connection which
now existed between them and the Whigs, and to thrust his
Majesty's Ministers out of power, into the ranks of the Tories
if they resisted it. By this means the people would be truly
informed that they were not represented in the House of
Commons, and that the Whigs were not their friends. It
might be said, that in doing so they would be acting very
dangerously. He believed the contrary. Those who made
use of that argument urged that the Whigs would by that
means be driven into the arms of the Tories. What disho-
nesty their advocates believed them capable of, when they
used such an argument in their favour I But the Tories
would be let in ; and then incalculable mischief would ensue
if they continued. If the Tories were so mischievous, and if
their recovery of power was, under these circumstances, so
inevitable, what became of the honesty and consistency of the
Whigs in refusing to yield a little to the Radicals, to avert
all these threatened disasters ? If the Whigs believed the.
" irruption" of the Tories so dangerous, why not keep them
out by conceding something to the Radicals ? The Radicals
had asked nothing for themselves, and the Whigs therefore
assumed that they were disinterested people, who wished for
nothing but to see them provide for their own enjoyments.—
(Cheers and laughter.) As far as he (Mr. Roebuck) was con-
cerned, he was determined that, in following out those princi-
ples which he conceived were for the benefit of the people, he
should not be cajoled by the fair promises of his Majesty's Mi-
nisters, or by anything but their acts, to believe that they had
the good of the country at heart. If they did what he thought
right, he should give them his support ; but on the barren
principle on which they staked their political existence—lrish
tithes—unaccompanied with any provision for the Irish poor
—they need not calculate on it. He believed that there would
never be any good done for Ireland until the Irish Church
was pulled down : it was a nuisance to be abated at once--it
was mischievous to the people at large—and no person who
wished well to them could desire to see it longer exist • but of
this he was convinced, that the golden temple of the Irish
Church would not be pulled down by any except democratic
hands. His Majesty's Ministers and the Whigs would never
do it, he was quite satisfied. On these principles he would act,
because he believed that by them alone he should be able to
obtain justice for Ireland, for England, and for the colonies Of
Great Britain.

)

Mr. BE A UMO NT said that, though unprepared to speak
he had no reluctance to rise in reply to the Hon. Member
for Bath before he should propose an amendment to the
Address. He essentially differed with that Hon. Member
when he assumed that the Radicals in that House were the
sole representatives of the people. He did not differ much -
with him in regard to the fact when he said that the Whigs
had lost much of their popularity ; but he did differ with him "
entirely when he attributed the cause of it to their disinclina-
tion to a closer coalition with the Radicals. He (Mr. Beate,
mont) believed that the contrary was the case ; and he there-
fore thought that the diminution in their popularity arose
from their greater approximation to them in late times. The
Radicals required organic changes; but he (Mr. Beaumont)
was disposed to resist any further measures of that nature for
England. There had been quite enough of them for the
benefit of that country ; and it was his belief that Parliament
should now apply itself solely to real Reforms, and the work
ef practical legislation. It was on this ground, and for these
reasons, that he intended to propose an amendment on that
part of the Address which related to the Constitution of Ire-
land. Ho did so, after having duly considered all the modes
in which that country could be most essentially benefitted.
The object of his amendment was for the equalization of the
two religions which prevailed in that country, and to place
the inhabitants of both countries in a state of entire equality
with regard to religious opinions. Before Poor Laws could
be introduced with arse prospect of benefit to Ireland, the re-
ligious dissensions which now distracted that country should
be healed by equality of legislation. He would never con-
sent to the establishment of the voluntary principle, because
it was his opinion that Protestants should have the arrange-
ment of the affairs of their own Church, as well as the Catho-
lics. He should propose his amendment pro forma only,
as he perceived that the House seemed disposed rather to
treat the question of Irish tithes generally at some future pe-
riod than to entertain it partially then. Whenever the Go-
vernment proposed a measure on the subject of tithes in Ire-
land, he should be prepared to state his reasons for opposing all
attempts at an adjustment of them, and to prove to the House
that the only safe way of pacifying that country was to abolish
them altogether. Not, he would add, to fill the pockets of
the landlord, but to apply to the purposes of the poor. The
Honourable Member concluded by reading his amendment.
It was to the effect—" That no measures which should
be introduced for the tranquillity of Ireland should be ef-
fectual to`that end unless they were accompanied by measures
which had for their tendency the abolition of all religious
distinctions in that country." This amendment found no
seconder, and was withdrawn, at the desire of the House.
Mr. JA ME S denied that the Whigs were as bad as the
Tories, as the lion. Member for Bath bad stated. He could
never agree to that assertion. Neither could he coincide with
the subsequent assertion of the Hon. Member, that his Ma-
jesty's Ministers had lost their popularity, because he did not
believe it to be the fact. It was charged against them by the
Hon. Member that they would not give the Ballot; but he
would ask the lion. Member, were the Tories disposed to give
it? His Majesty's Ministers had much to contend with since
'they came into office; but their priucipal source of annoyance
was the opposition of the other branch of the Legislature.
By that opposition they were prevented from passing measures
of very great utility, and there was consequently a great de.
sire among the people to reform that branch of the Legisla-
ture by destroying its hereditary privilege, and making it re-
sponsible somewhere. (Hear, and laughter.) He (Mr.
James) was notin favour of organic changes in the Constitution,
but he thought reform was required there. If the Lords acted
honestly and usefully he did not believe that there was any
wish on the part of the people to deprive them of their'
honours, titles, stars, and garters—(Laughter)—or of any
power or privilege which justly belonged to them ; but if they
acted in this session as they did in the last—if they set their
faces against the best interests of the country, and became an
obstacle in the way of improvement—it would be the duty of
the people at last to limit their power of doing evil. The
Lords themselves affirmed the principle of Reform by assenting
to the Reform Bill for the other branch of the Legislature.
If they did not reform themselves, that principle would be ap-
plied to them, and at no very distant period the moral force
which carried that measure would compel them to bow before
it. It was, in point of fact, only a question of time. If one
House was amenable to Reform, why should the other be ex-
empted from it ? It might be said by Hon. Members on the
other side of the House, that to do so would be to destroy the
Constitution ; but he could not attach much weight to that
prediction, coming from such a quarter, when he remembered
that the same was said at the period it was proposed to dis-
franchise East Retford, and one or two other rotten bo-
roughs, and transfer their franchise to Birmingham, Manches-
ter, and similar great towns. But even if the Constitution
were to be touched by it, he (Mr. James) should say, if the
Lords do not act as they ought to act, reform them at any
risk. Was good government to be sacrificed for the purpose
of merely upholding:one branch of the Legislature in all its
iniquities ? It was the opinion of eery matey that the Lords
were incorrigible ; but he did not coincide with them. He
hoped for better things from their good sense in this session of
Parliament. It was now in their power to gain a place in
the opinion of the people by concession to their just demands ;
but if they continued any longer blind to the signs of the
times, and heedless of the spirit that was abroad, it seemed to
him that the downfal of their order would be the natural con-
sequence. In that case they would have no one to blame
but themselves, except it might be the Hon. Gentleman oppo-
site who had been their bad advisers. If he were permitted
to give advice to their " High Mightinesses" he should re-
commend them to give way to the growing spirit of reform.
and no longer to impede its onward progress.
Mr. CURTEIS said that the absence of all cheers during
the speech of the Hon. Member for Bath was a full proof
that there was no sympathy with his sentiments in the House
or in the nation at large. He (Mr. Curteis) considered that
the country was under very great obligations to his Majesty's
Ministers, and that they had been most unjustly dealt with by
the Hon. Member. The Hon. Member had stated that the
mind of the nation was made up to advocate the ballot. He
(Mr. Curteis) believed that, on the contrary, the majority
was not prepared to support it. Nay, more. In the county
which he represented he believed that the majority were dia-
metrically opposed to it. He would not then enter into an
enumeration of the many great measures which the Whigs
had introduced, or the benefits which they had conferred
on the country; but he would tell the Honourable Mem-
ber for Bath if there were many Honourable IMembers
of his opinion, that party would be driven, he would not
say to join the Tories, as the Hon. Member said, but to re-
tire altogether from public affairs, and mix no more in po-
litics. He (Mr. Curteis) believed the speech of the Hon.
Member to be one of the most mischievous imaginable, and he
was satisfied that the great body of Reformers in the country
would never respond to it. If he (Mr. Curteis) had to choose
a leader between the Hon. Member and the Right Hon. Ba-
ronet (Sir Robert Peel) opposite, though termed a Radical
among his constituents, he should not hesitate to take the
latter. He was, however, prepared to sacrifice some of his
theoretical opinions to support the Government of the Noble
Lord (Lord John Russell) on his side of the House. He be-
lieved, notwithstanding the statement of the Hon. Member for
Bath, that the present Government had considerable popu-
larity in the country ; and he further believed that, if they had
in any degree, however little, lost it, their opponents on the
other side of the Housd had gained nothing of it. The Hon.
Member concluded by saying that his Majesty's present Mi-
nistry should have his honest anti independent support.
Mr. GISB 0 RNE said that there was a single passage in
the King's Speech which occasioned some mistrust in his
mind ; he meant the paragraph which referred to joint-stock

I)

Lk

I

inks. _t is but a small matter to come from his Majesty's
Government ; and if he were permitted to guess he should
incline to suppose it an emanation from the Right Hon. the
President of the Board of Trade, who, of all the advocates
for free trade which existed, was the greatest regulator he
ever knew. The Right Hon. Gentleman had taken the rail-
roads under his care last session, but they pioved too strong
for him. Nay, he had even tranfcrrcd his guardianship from
the hulks beyond the Tweed to those on the shores of Lake
Michigan in Canada. The paragraph was one which wore a
most suspicious appearance. It was quite impossible for the
House usefully to step in, and say to any bank how it should
be managed, To do so would be productive of the most seri-
ous mils to the community. He (Mr. Gisborne) did not
mean to move any amendment on the subject, but he should
repeat that he looked with extreme distrust at that part of the
I(ing'a Speech, and said he should narrowly watch any mea-
sure which might be introduced in connection with it.
Mr. HUM E could only say, in regard to the speech of his
Hon. Friend the Member for Bath, that he had stated much
that was true, and that he should feel extremely happy when
the proper time had come to consider each point consecu-
tively, and co-operate with him in carrying as many as he
agreed with into effect. But he was of opinion that his Hon.
Friend had departed from the matter on hand, which was,
Whether the House should agree to the whole, or only a part
of the Address which had been proposed, and other lion.
Members had followed his example. He did not agree with
his Hon. Friend when he said the Whigs were as bad as the
Tories, because he remembered that through their agency the
People had attained that for which they were long vainly strug-
Ving through years and years. The course taken by his Hon.
riend was not, in his opinion, the best. Instead of op-
posing them, to use a familiar phrase they should be " patted
on the back," and thereby encourapd to go on as they had
begun. He (Mr. Hume) was disposed to expect better things
from them than his Hon. Friend anticipated. With respect to
colonial matters, he believed that his Hon. Friend, though
sanguine in most matters, had but spoken the plain opinions of
the people. The question, however, now was, how far the
Principles of the Reform Bill were to be carried out, and that
measure to which the Right lion. Baronet opposite expressed
himself disposed to give full effect brought into full operation.
He (Mr. Hume) was anxious that those who supported the
cause of Reform should keep united together as ono man, to
prevent the so much dreaded " irruption" of the Tories again
into power. By separation or division among the Reformers all
would be lost--by union and cohesion all would be inevitably
gained. That was the true question. The opinion of the
lion. Member for Bath went beyond those of most Hon.
i‘lembers in that House ; but as a venerable Reformer—( A
laugh)--he (Mr. Hume) looked less to theory than to the
greatest practical benefits to the people. To obtain these he
did not think that his Hon. Friend's mode was the best which
could cc imagined. In saying this he begged his Majesty's
rs to understand that many important measures were
'required at their hands to complete reform, and to carry out
those ameliorations in our institutions which were essentially
#leccssary for their welfare. With regard to the ballot, he
k Mr. Hume) believed that a very great majority of the people
of the country were in favour of it, and every day's experience
Added to the proofs already in existence, that, under the pre-
fent system of voting, there was no protection in the exercise
of the elective franchise. So satisfied was he on the subject,
that he confidently anticipated an immense majority in favour
of the principle when the question should be brought forward
in the course of the Session by his Hon. Friend the Member
for London. With the hope, then, that his Majesty's Minis-
ters would not disappoint the just and reasonable expectations of
the people of this country, he would give them his support ; but
if he should find them disposed so act otherwise, he should feel
it his duty to place upon record his own opinions of their
conduct.

Dr. BO WR ING fully agreed with the Hon. Member for
'Middlesex, that, instead of opposing his Majesty's Govern-
Ment, they were deserving of the honest support of every
keraber who wished well to the principles of good govern-
inent and the cause of humanity. He was one who approved
°f a close union of interests between France and this country,
Its the means best calculated to preserve the peace of Europe ;
but he regretted to say that the Government of France had
tot behaved as it ought towards foreign nations, in their
struggle for liberty. He need only refer to the conduct of
France towards the Swiss Cantons. He regretted that there
Was no allusion to this subject in the Speech that had that day
been delivered from the Throne, because he was anxious to
know whether or not the Noble Lord the Secretary of State
fo: Foreign Affairs had been a party to the note that had been
sent by the French Government to the Diet of Switzerland.
It could not be denied either that France had afforded much
facility to the supporters of Don. Carlos, in the receipt of
supplies across the frontiers, which, without some sanction,
every body knew it was extremely difficult to pass.—( Hear,
bear.) But, in spite of all impediment, the Constitu-
tional cause would prosper in Spain, as well as in every
other country. It was with grief he saw the course which the
French Monarch was pursuing, because he feared that that
course would prove dangerous to his person and to his dynasty.
There was no freedom of the Press now in France ; for any
editor or proprietor of a newspaper was liable, at the mere will
of a police officer, or a Minister, to be seized upon, thrown into
prison, and tried by a packed Jury, a simple majority of whom
was sufficient to convict. But the interests of justice and
humanity were always sure to meet with sympathy in that
House.—( Question. ) He hoped the blood of Englishmen
would always be shed when the interests of humanity required
it, and that this country would always take up a noble position
in the universal cause of mankind. With respect to the ar-
I's/i gen-lents for the mutual facilities of intercourse between
eenthis country and France, lie was glad to be enabled to state
that the new regulations of the Post-office had produced an
Increase of communication by letter in the present year, as
compared with the last year, of 600,000 letters. This was
the effect of a generous and enlightened policy, and he for one
Would support his Majesty's Government when they gave hope
If Pursuing' such a course towards the great path of public
traprsovernent.
Sir R. PEEL—I think I am justified in inferring that it
Ras the intention of his Majesty's Speech, or rather of the
Address, to avoid provoking on the first day of the Session
41V lengthened at least any acrimonious,- discussion on the
matters to which it refers. Various topics are alluded to—
t°Pics which must demand our attention ; but I observe in the
Address an avoidance, I think a studious avoidance, of any
Pledge with respect to that course which we shall take in re-
gard to those topics. I rejoice, therefore, in being able to
give my assent to the Address—at least to give so far my assent
to the Address as hot to feel myself under the least obligation
to move any amendment to it. I think that it is the proper
course to be pursued on the first day of the Session. I think,
tonsidering the short opportunity that there is for those who are
to opposition to the King's Government, or who have not access
to the Speech before it is delivered, to know what are the topics
introduced into it, that it is infinitely fairer to indicate the topics
to which our attention will be called during the Session, without
calling upon us for any premature pledge as to the course we
shall pursue, and which we arc not prepared to give. If the
practice which has been adhered to for the last 20 or 30 years
should be departed from, and if on the first day of the session
Vre should be invited to enter into any acrimonious discussion,
Q be called upon to assent to any premature propositions, then
that custom which formerly simultaneously prevailed of mak-
ing known the King's Speech and the nature of its proposi-
tions two or three days before it was delivered, ought certainly
to be adhered to also. As it is not necessary for me to move
an amendment, and as it appears to me to be the prevailing
Wish of Honourable Members—judging from the conversation
Which has been going on amongst them during the many
sPeeches that have been delivered, and which conversation I
am sorry to say, notwithstanding the reform that has been
made in our edifice, has been to me as audible as in former
liaYs----(laughter)—believing, I say, that it is the wish of the
House to avoid a lengthened discussion, I shall, in conformity
with that wish, and seeing no advantage in any preliminary or
Partial discussion upon important matters which are shortly to
i„ "crupy our attention, imitate the reserve of the Speech itself,
and follow the example of those who have preceded me_
Claiming for myself the right of hereafter discussing un-
fettered, and without any pledge, all the topics alluded
to in the speech—and shall avoid saying anything which
can provoke discussion on the present occasion.—( Hear,
"ear-) The only amendment which has been offered to
our notice, relating to a matter' which must have provoked
much discussion, has been withdrawn ; and the only com-
ments which have been made on the Speech are those which
fell from the Hon. Member for Derbyshire (Mr. Gisborne),
Who was surprised that so much of the Speech was occupied
with what referred to joint stock banks. That observation
convinced me that the Hon. Gentleman had never been in a
Cabinet Council—( Laughter)—because when a Cabinet
Council was held to draw up a King's Speech, which must
occupy a certain time in the delivery, but which at the same
time must be so framed as to avoid discussion, the question of
joint-stock banks was one of the most prominent that could be
elected,_(Laughter. ) But if the Hon. Gentleman will
Look at the terms in which that subject is treated of, all
anxiety on his part, I think, would be removed, for he may
safely rest on this announcement, that " the best security
against mismanagement of banking affairs must ever be found
!II the capacity and integrity of those who are entrusted with
administration of them." I suppose this does not refer to
the mental capacity, but to the solvency of the parties-
- Laughter)—or the term "capacity" may be taken in a double
sense, and include the substantial as well as the intellectual
vigour of the parties.—( Laughter.) The pledge, how-
ever, which the Hon. Gentleman shrinks from is this—. But
ono legislative regulation should be omitted which can in-
rease and ensure the stability of establishments upon which
commercial credit so much depends." If he therefore thinks
that no legislative regulation can increase and ensure the
stability of establishments upon which commercial credit de-
pends, he may feel himself safe as far as concerns the pledges
contained in that part of the address. The only topic to
iWhich I shall refer is that which relates to our foreign po-
2e), and this not with a view of provoking any discussion—
lot with a view (as I wish to avoid discussion) of condemn-
_log it, but only to reserve to myself the same power with
respect to our foreign policy as I have already done with re-
ference to our domestic policy, namely, that of being unfet-
te.
ared by any pledge to what may in a future discussion seem
cme to be open to objection. The expression I allude to
_tc.he Speech is this :—" His Majesty laments that the
‘-10 II contest which has agitated the Spanish Monarchy has
intueyet been brought to a close; but his Majesty has con-
,L,e
_4 to afford to the Queen of Spain that aid which, by
I Treaty of Quadruple Alliance of 1834, his Majesty en-
taged to give if it should become necessary : and his Ma-
J.!_st_nd y rejoices that his co-operating force has rendered
re assistance to the troops of her Catholic Majesty."
recognise the fair claim of the Queen of Spain to
the sympathies of this country.—( Hear, hear.) The Queen
e Government of this country with which I was connected
the*ansee. legitimate Queen
of Spain before the Quadruple Alli-
I reserve the expression of my opinion with respect to

' the policy of that Quadruple Alliance.—( Hear, bear.) But
these two questions are perfectly distinct ; first, whether the
engagement which we have entered into ought or ought not to
have been entered into; and next, whether that engage-
ment being entered into, and the national faith pledged to
it, ought that treaty to be faithfully and honourably ful-
filled ?—( Hear, hear.) I say it ought. I say that the ques-
tion as to the original policy of this country entering into
that treaty is entirely distinct from the question as to the
practical execution of it. It is true, as the Noble Lord
opposite on a former occasion stated, that the Duke of Wel-
lington and myself, during the short period the adminis-
tration of the country was in our hands, while expressing
serious doubts as to the policy of the original engagement
entered into by that treaty, yet felt ourselves bound, not
merely technically to adhere to the letter of the treaty, but
earnestly to see it executed in the spirit in which it was con-
ceived. His Majesty informs us that he " has continued to
afford to the Queen of Spain that aid which, by the Treaty of
Quadruple Alliance of 1834, his Majesty engaged to give if
it should become necessary." I can say with perfect truth,
that I heard with satisfaction that the King had given that aid
to the Queen of Spain which he bad stipulated to give her if
it should become necessary. I must also say if this country,
in the execution of a treaty, the original policy of which I
may condemn, does afford aid, that when that aid, whether
of British seamen or British soldiers, is given, I never can
refuse my sympathy to those gallant men—(Loud cheers)—
nor fail to rejoice in their success.—( Renewed cheers.) But
the expression of the Address is, "we rejoice that his Ma-
jesty's co-operating force has rendered useful assistance to
the troops of her Catholic Majesty." Now, I take it for
granted that the object of the King's Speech was to state
to us this—" I stipulated to give a certain force; I have
given that force, and that force has been successful."
The force we stipulated to give was a naval force.—
( Hear, hear.) The granting the assistance of a naval
force, evidently does not admit us to interfere with respect to
any civil dissensions, or any internal constitutional questions,
which a stipulation to grant a military force would seem to
imply.—( Hear, hear.) And, therefore, I take it for granted
that this part of the speech is literally correct, and that the aid
given has been in conformity with the treaty, and nothing
more—( Loud opposition cheers)—and nothing more—( Re-
newed cheers)—that it has been that naval force which we
stipulated to give. Because, although I agree that that treaty
ought to be executed in a generous spirit, yet I still shall on
the strongest grounds protest against any construction being
given to that treaty which the terms of it do not warrant, and
against our being involved, beyond the obligations of that
treaty, in the internal dissensions of the Spanish nation.—
( Opposition cheers.) I think that is the prevailing opinion of
the majority of this House—( Hear)—and that we ought to
watch with the utmost care and circumspection—whatever our
opinions may be about monarchical or democratic Governments
—that a dangerous principle and precedent be not established;
but which must be the result, if we once begin to adopt a
system of interference with the internal quarrels and dissen-
sions of other countries. Who can undertake to limit the
application of that principle to a question of constitutional
government, if we establish a precedent of which despotic
countries may avail themselves ? They may say they have as
much right to interfere with the civil dissensions of. Spain for
the purpose of maintaining arbitrary government, as we have
for maintaining constitutional government; and then there
would be an end to the peace and repose of Europe. Such
may be the consequence of our setting a bad example, by ex-
tending the limits of the treaty for the purpose of involving
ourselves in these internal dissensions. Therefore I give my
assent to that portion of the address, assuming that the state-
ments of it are in strict conformity with the truth, and that
the co-operating force referred to may merely be considered
that naval force which we undertook to give. It is impossible
to look to the very next paragraph of the speech without de-
riving a useful lesson as to the danger of our interfering with
the civil matters of other countries. The paragraph I allude
to refers to Portugal. In 1837 we express our regret that
" events have happened in Portugal which for a time threat-
ened to disturb the internal peace of that country." In 1834
(three years previous), after our influence, or, as it was
called, moral influence, had been completely successful in
effecting a revolution and establishing the present dynasty
in Portugal, what were the terms in which his present Ma-
jesty addressed this house ?—" I have derived the most sin-
cere and lively satisfaction from the termination of the civil
war which had so long distractesl the kingdom of Portugal ;
and I rejoice to think that the treaty which the state of affairs
in Spain and in Portugal induced me to conclude with the
King of the French, the Queen Regent of Spain, and the
Regent of Portugal, and which has already been laid before
you, contributed materially to produce this happy result."
That happy result !—(Laughter.) But in 1837, we are aware
of the fact that we have, I believe, six sail of the line in the
Tagus, after that happy result has been produced, for the pur-
pose of 'what 7—for the purpose of defending the Queen of
that country from possible personal attack on the part of her
own subjects ; and also for the very laudable object of doing
what ?—of rescuing the English residing there from the
dangers with which they are threatened.—( Hear.) Now, is
that the happy result of our interference ? Six sail of the line
is a considerable force • either, therefore, that country is un-
settled, or English life and property are in danger. Either
one or the other, or both is the case. I take the simple facts,
and then I ask, is not that a conclusive proof that after all our
interference we have not obtained a single object ; neither
that of establishing the Government of the Queen, nor of in-
creasing English influence in Portugal. But I will put
aside the question of principle altogether, and ask you to
look only as a matter of experience to what this ought to
teach us as to our future policy. What is the advantage we
have gained in Portugal ? How ought we to reason from the
result of our policy with respect to that country as to the pro-
bable issue of our conduct with regard to Spain, when we
consider that some three or four years after his Majesty's Go-
vernment had pronounced eulogiums on the happy result of our
policy in establishing the Government of the Queen of Por-
tugal through the influence of our arms, she is unable to com-
mand the affections of her subjects, while England has no al-
ternative but that of again resorting to force, and of, in fact,
becoming responsible for the civil government of that coun-
try ? —(Hear, hear.) One main object we had hoped to rea-
lize from the Quadruple Treaty was to be on terms of good
understanding with France. But if what the Hon. Gentle-
man (Dr. Bowring) has stated be true it is evident that the
object of that treaty—namely, the formation of an intimate
union with France—has not been realized.—( Hear, hear.) I
will not longer detain the House, but reserving to myself the
right of considering hereafter the whole policy, domestic and
foreign, alluded to in the speech, I again say that I give my
assent to those paragraphs in the address which I have particu-
larly mentioned. Ido so because I think the Queen of Spain
—I avow ft—is fairly and fully entitled to our sympathy, and
to an honourable performance of the engagement which we
have entered into with her, and as this honourable engagement
has called for the active interference of a British force, I can-
not withhold the expression of my admiration at the gallantry
of my countrymen, and, as they have interfered, I rejoice that
their interference has been successful.-e-(Loud cheers, and
cries of " Question ! ")
Lord PALMERSTON—I shall certainly so far follow the
example of the Right Hon. Baronet, as not to trespass upon
the attention of the House for above a very few minutes. I
am bound, in the first place, to say that the interpretation
which the Right Hon. Baronet has given of that part of the
Address which relates to our foreign relations is perfectly
warranted, and perfectly consistent with the intentions of
those who proposed it. But as, in agreeing to the Address
on the grounds which the Right Hon. Baronet has stated, and
which I am ready to say are most honourable to himself, he is
not pledged on those graver questions to which he has alluded,
it will be perfectly open to him, at any future period, to im-
pugn the foreign policy of his Majesty's Government. If I
had any remark to make upon what has fallen from the Right
Hon. Baronet, it would be, that while he professed not to ob.
ject to the Address, yet he did contrive incidentally to convey
to the House opinions somewhat stronger and to a greater ex-
tent than that which he announced it to be his intention to ex-
press when he began. I shall be prepared, however, when
the Right Hon. Baronet, or any other Hon. Member, shall
enter into this question, to show that the co-operation
which has been afforded to the Queen of Spain is, as the
Right Hon. Baronet has stated—though, judging from
his manner, not as he implied—consistent and in strict
conformity with the execution of the quadruple treaty. The
Right lion. Baronet, with reference to the affairs of Portugal,
said, that those events to which the Speech alluded as having
recently taken place there, ought to be a warning to the coun-
try as to our interfering hastily with the internal affairs of other
nations ; for that whereas in 1834, we congratulated ourselves
on the eectual stop we had put to the disputes then prevail-
ing in Portugal, yet now in 1837, other disputes have arisen,
and three years after those congratulations we have been
obliged to send ships to Lisbon, in order to protect British sub-
jects from any injury they may sustain from popular resistance
to the Government of the Queen. Now, I cannot see any
inconsistency between the result which was alluded to as hav-
ing taken place in Portugal at a former period, and the opinion
expressed on that result on that former period, and what is now
stated in the Address with reference to the present state of
Portugal ; because, when we stated that the effect of the treaty
in 1834 had been at once to put an end to the civil war which
was then raging in Portugal, we did not take upon ourselves
the responsibility of the Government of Portugal in all future
times, or undertake to guarantee that Portugal should for ever
after be free from all liability to those disturbances which every
country, whatever its Government may be, must be always
subject to. But if we thought it was likely a disturbance
would take place in Portugal, which might be attended with
popular commotion, I think it was right and proper, and our
bounden duty, having ships at our disposal, to send them to
the Tagus, in order, if possible, to prevent any disturbance ;
and at all events to protect our own fellow-subjects from suf-
fering, in consequence of that disturbance. But I shall be
prepared to show that that is true which is stated in the
Speech, and that those ships were sent out for the purposes
there stated, and that they did not go with the intention
ascribed to that act of the Government ; and being there,
that they did not interfere with the constitutional question
which divided the conflicting parties in that country. I shall
only say, therefore, that the Right Hon. Baronet is perfectly
warranted in concurring in this Address, notwithstanding the
opinion which he entertains of the impolicy of the Quadruple
Treaty ; and that it is perfectly open to him, after having so
concurred in it, without an amendment, to impugn and dis-
pute the policy of that Treaty.
The Address was then put from the Chair, and agreed to
unanimously, and the House adjourned at a Quarter past
Eight o'clock.

HOUSE OF LORDS, JAN. 31.
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat OH the Woolsack at
five o'clock.

Lord PORTMAN, Lord YARBOROUGH, and Lord DUCIE, took
the oaths and their seats.
Lord BROUGHAM entered the House shortly afterfive o'clock,