The Sun.
London, England, 1801-04-18 00:00:00

Lord BORINGDON contended that the .Noble
Loids had no, reason to complain-of want of info:.
=inn, because though the Report Of the Commit.
tee did not state every particular part 'of the infor-
mation they, had obtained, yet, in his opinion, they
had stated sufficient to justify the House in passing
this Bill ; they had-stated that there were persons
in this Country acliug upon the principles of the
Irish Diredory. This faa alone appeared to him
to justify the measure they were about to take, and
which he considered as a measure of prottetion and
lenity, as well as one of precaution.
Lord _HOBART rose merely to say a few words,
in consequence of wl at. had fallen from the Noble
Lord who spoke first. It was true, that no dired
communication had been made from His MAJESTY
to that House; but it was very well known that a
Message had been delivered to the other House of
Parliament by one of His Majesty's Confidential
Servants, and therefore the Noble Lord was not
correct, in stating that there 'was no responsibility
on the part of Administration. His Lordship said,
that the Committee which had been appointed by
their Lordships had examined the subjea referred
to them, and had unanimously concurred in opinion,
that such a measure as that now proposed was abso.
lutely necessary for the safety of the Country. He
was so decidedly of that opinion, that he shoeld
undoubtedly submit to their Lordships the pro-
priety of passing this BAt through all its stages
this night. Ile ti.ouBht it right to state thus
much, in order that 'the Noble Lords might know
upon what grounds they were to discuss the mea-
sure.

Lord HOLL AND, in a Speech of: considerable
length, opposed the Bill ; he despaired of being
able to make their Lordships concur in opinion with
him upon this subjea, but he _felt it his duty to
say, that in his opinion sufficient evidence had not
been laid before the House to justify them in pass.
ing a Bill of so important a nature as the present.
Allowing every degree of confidence in the discreet
use which Ministers would make of such additional
power, he would say, that the trust was too great
to be committed to them; but, in fad; the experi-
ment had been made, and he would insist upon it
that this power had been abued by His Majesty's
Ministers. Persons had been confined for above
two years, with Out Ministers having been able to
substantiate any proof against them. He begged
the House to consider. what, hardships these persons
had endured, their solitary, confinement, and depri-
vations, whilst His Majdty;'' Ministers having
never thought fit to bring them to trial, it was fair
to presume they might, after all; be innocent.--
'1 here was once a time when Noble Lords would
have examined, and re-examined, before they
adopted ta measure Of this nature, and not have rest.
ed contented with taking the assertions of any set
of men. His Lordslrip then adverted.-to the treat.
ment of the Prisoners- in the Cold Bath Fields Fri.
son, the condua of the Governor, six. and ex-
pressed. his surprize at these circumstances being
passed over in silence. A Noble Lord ha.:
told the House of the wretched situation to
which Ireland had been brought. But he wish_
ed to know whether this was owing to- the want
of the Suspension .of the Habeas Corpus Act,—
or to measures of rigonr being neglected ?'The
sysiem of coercion had prt.duccd no good efreti; a
system of conciliation would, in his opi,,ion, have
been better. It was his firm conviction that this
Country was fist approaching to a dreadful situa.
tion, and that the measures taken would not be
found sufficient to prevent the evils dreaded.
The Earl of WESTMO RL AND said, there cbuld
be no question as to the importance of the Habeas
Corpus Al to the Liberties of the Subject; but
what alone called for their Lordships' consideration
was, ivhether the proposed Suspension of it was
called for in the present critical situation of affairs ?
His Lordship then proceeded to vindicate the con.
dud of
.the Committee
,which had been appointed,
and the nature of the'Report which they had made.
With regard to the use which His Majesty's Mi-
nisters . had made of the former Suspension of
this AEI, he Would challenge the Noble Lord to
prove that any good and loyal subjea had been
molested or put into prison in consequence of such
Suspension. The power with. which Ministers
were entrusted, had in no case been abused, but had
been exercised with a scrupulous regard to the pub-
lic safety. The Noble Lord had declared his want
ofeonfidence in the new Administration ; but, in
his opinion, it was -a good recommendation of the
new Government, that they steered by the counsels
of those who, amidst an unusual variety of public
dangers and difficulties, had guided the Bark of the
State safely through so many dangers and storms.
The Noble Lord (flo LLANO had adverted to the
distresses of the Poor ; but he was proud to say,.
that there never was ;t period when more regard
had been paid to the distresses of the Poor. The
Bill now under consideration was one of proteaion
to the loyal, and a Bill of prevention and of for-
bearance towards the wicked and evil-minded.
Earl -MOIR A in reply, said he was not satis.
fled with the vague assertions contnined in the
Report of the Committee, however much he
respeaed the Noble Lords composing that Com-
mittee, individually considered ; but they svere
persons who had mostly been in His Majesty's Ad-
ministration, and composed of such who it would be
expeaed, would necessarily frame a Report to vin-
dicate the system which they had adopted. The
consequence of the measures which had been adopted
by the Noble Earl (WEststottLaxo) when Lord
Lieutenant of Ireland, silt:wed the inefficacy of
that system of measures which had been pursued
there, His Lordship condemned the method which
Ministers had adopted on the present occasion ; they
had merely laid Papers on the Table, without bring-
ing. any dire& communication from the Throne,
thus avoiding all responsibility with regard to the
measure brought forward,
.and, shifting it from
themselves to the. Committee,,Aitir, %%lien a mea-
sure which was an evident infraftion of the Consti-
tution, was brought before Parliament, the Mini.
stet who did so, ought to make himself personsliy
responSible, which in this instance, and by the steps
taken, he had evaded. He could not coine!iesas4
His Majesty's Ministers, so far as to take theii-
louse Statenients, instead of' Evidence, as a sufficient
ground for suspending the Habeas Corpus MI. On
a matter of such importance to the 10erry of the

Stthjcft, he. requited not assertion merely, but po. si-
tive proof. -If unlawful Oaths had.been administer-
ed in any instances, 2s Iteted in the Report) why
not convia the persons chargeable with such
proceedings ? As the Law stood, he believed the sen-
tence for such conduct was Transportation ; and
even if any individuals could be so conviaed, he
should still doubt whether that would form sufficient
ground to pass a Law which went to_ disfranchise so
many of his fellow-subjeils.
The Earl of WESTMORLAND, in explanation,
denied that Ministers, by adopting the mode of lay-
ing the Papers on the Table, instead of coming
down with 'a'diiitt communication from His MA.
J E sry, did so with any desire of avoiding responsi.
bility. _ -
Lard C4E.LYPIL,LE thought, that enough had
been stated on the Report of the Committee, to sa-
tisfy their Lordships and the Public, of the expe-
diency of adoptini, the measure now under conside-
ration. It had been stated, that a Conspiracy of
the same nature still existed, which ILO in.vegved
Ireland in such calamities, and which, had it not
been for the vigilance of Ministers and Parliament,
would have involved this Country in similar dis-
tresses. Their Lordships' Committee had further
stated, that the Report of the Committee of the House
of Commons had been filly proved ; and they stated
this fa& as-the result of their own Inquiries on the
subject. lie denied, that this Report was to be
classed as mere declamation. - But a degree of proof
had been required by Noble Lords, which was
incompatible with the very objea of appointing a
Committee of Secrecy, which was instituted for the
very purpose of guarding against giving public in.
formation of the sources from whence the evidence
and intelligence were derived, and which publicity
would go direCily to counteract the end for which
such Committee was appointed : And he would
ask, whether it would be more conducive to the
public safety and welfare, for those , who were
entrusted with the Executive Government of the
Country to be able to trace the nature and progress
of this Conspiracy, and how best to counter it,
than by disclosing any particular evidence, even
although sufficient for the conviction of any indi-
vidual offender ? His Lordship observed, that the
Committee had stated in their Report that the same
Conspiracy existed, and was still pursued in this
Country, as had plunged Ireland in Rebellion,
and the nature.-or-which had been amply detailed
in the reports,llre-ady before their Lordships.—
The continuance of this Conspiracy ,constituted
a good reason for the continuance of the present
measure. This Conspiracy was stated to be
pursued by the same means as had rendered that
which subsisted in Ireland, so peculiarly dangerous;
by the formation of Secret Committees, and the ad:,
ministering of Secret Oaths. The Committee of
their Lordships farther informed them, that these
profligate men, looked at the distresses of the Poor
with no other view than as an engine to work upon
their passions, and to excite them to Insurrections
and Rebellion. A Noble Lord had demanded, if a
of this natUre would provide reliefagainst Scar.
city ? Undoubtedly it would not, but it would
serve to prevent the machinations of those who
would take a handle from those distresses, to work
upon their passions. These Conspirators had ac-
knowledged; that the Bills now proposed to be re.
newed, were the greatest obstacles to the exe_
cution of their designs. He would ask then,
was not this very acknowledgment a strong
recommendation to the continuance of these mea

sures ? The Committee had likewise stated,
that the design of those Conspirators was to cause
a sudden explosion, which was intended to take
place in the interval between the expiration of the
former bills and the renewal of those now before
the House. This of itself afforded a reason, not
merely for passing the till now proposed, but for
deing so with as little delay as possible. Upon the
whole, his Lordship said, he had never given his
vote in favour of, a measure more cordially than he
should do on the present occasion.

The question was then put for the second reading
of the iiili, which wits carried without a division.

Their Lordships then negatived the CommHaien
of :he Bill.

On the que2ition fathe third reading of the Bill,
Lard HOLLAND rose and moved, that the Stand.
ing Orders of tht Uousc, Numbers 24., 26, and
10+, be read, which was done accordingly ; these
in substance, generally ordained the non-passing of
Bills through different Stages-on the same day-7-
and that these Orders should not be dispensed with,
unless a day's previous notice of an intention to
move for such a proceeding he preViously given.
Lord HOLLAND observed, he did not rise to
move to have those orders enforced, but wished to
call to their.Lordships' recolledion that such Orders
were in existence, and to refer particularly to the
Order last read, which exaEtcd a day's previous
notice before the efFe6l of such Order could be re-

gular!y dispensed with, with a view to slew what

little resped certain Noble Peers sheaved to these
orders, and those, perhaps, who would he the first
to take advantage of any breach of them in other
Noble Lords. •

Lard 110 R ART begged to appeal to the recol-
ledion, as well as the candour of the House, if, in
what he had said yesterday, he did not give, as far
as the ease possibly admitted, notice of the proceed-
ings which were urged this evening. Though he did
not exaaly know the contents of all the Papers
which were laid before the Committee; yet from his
official intercourse, he had a previous knowledge of
the contents of many of them ; that to a certain
degree warranted him in his observations upon the
point yesterday ; but as to the degree of expedition
in framing a Report which had been used, he could

not spe4 with equal certainty. Neither did he
know he should have been appointed one of the
Committee.

Lord HOLLAND spoke shortly in explanation,
after which the,1014a4,1-ead a third time and passed.
The Order Of- die Day for the third reading of
the Irish Master of the Rolls' Bill was then moved,
in consequence of which the Bill was forthwith read
a third time, without any objeCtion being offered
to the measure.

The Bill was then passed, and a message was
ordered to U sent to the Commons, acquainting
them that their Lordships had agreed to the said
Bill without any Amendment,

The Route adjourned at eleven o'clock,' till tai
morrow, when a Commission takes place fot da
Glaring the Royal Assent to certain Bills.,

HOUSE OF COMMONS,

FRIDAY, APRIL 17.

The House met this morning pursuant to the NO
tice given yesterday, at eleVen o'clock.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCIIEVE;
sated, that His MAJESTY had been waited up
with the Address of that House, praying that fit
MAJESTY would permit the Papers presented to th
House on the Ist and ad of April, to be laid befot
the House of Peers ; to which Fits MAIRSTY ha
been pleased to reply, that he would give 'diredilon
accordingly.
The CHANCELLOR Of the EXCHEQUER: thee
stated, that His MAJESTY had been waited upoi
with the Address of that House, praying that b
would give diretlions for Monuments to be erieet
for Captains MossE and Riou, who fell gloriousF
in the Attion of the ad of April. To which' Hu
MA J ESTY had been pleased to reply, that he woulC
give direetions accordingly.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER tber
moved, " That a Message should be sent to the
Lords, to acquaint their Lordships that the Com.
mons would send to their Lordships the Papers laid
before the House on the Ist and zd of April, de.
siring that such Papers might from time to time be
returned, as might be necessary for the tonvenienca
Of the House."—Ordered.
bz_
The House then adjournedadjourned till bttlf put tee
o'clock, •

The House met again at half.past three o'clock.
Mr. JEF F PAYS brought up a Bill for the better
Relief and Employment of the Poor of the city of
Coventry, which was read a first. time, and ordered.,
to be read a second time on the Ist of May.
Mr. WILBERFORCE rose to give notice, that 00;
Monday next,- when the Report of the Corn Coqui,
mittee was to be taken into consideration, be shOkig
bring forward a Proposition relative to that meittire.
The House resolVed itself into.a .Committavai
the Bill for the more effeaualiy pretr_entinitbe For.
gery of Bank. Notes, &c.
The LORD ADVOCATE 'Said, the Bili, iit
present worde-4, would affect} some of thiCgimtry-
Banks of Scotland, particularly that of Aberdeen,
respeffing the- manner in which their
formed, with a spiral line, &c. and tin- ihisied9tuist
he wished some alteration in the Bill. e

The ATTORNEY GENERAL thought theobw
jeaion of too trifling a nature to stand in the way.
of a measure of such importance to the interests of
the Bank of England ; and that the expenOe to the
single Country Bank of Aberdeen, with .respell tb,
the alteption which this Bill would occasion in the •
form of their Paper, would not at most exceed sol.
He, however, felt no objelion to postpone the
measure, so as to give time for an understanding on
the subjeft between the Bank of England and the
persons concerned for any of the Foreign Banks,
who apprehended their interests might be affetiall
by this measure.

The Chairman was accotngly iiireacd to rep
port progress, and ask leave to sit again, and it
was agreed that on Tuesday next the House shin*
again resolve itself into a Committce on the UM
Bill.

Mr. BitAGGE reported, that in pursuateeef the
directions of the House, he with other Members 4aa,
been to the House of Lords, and delivered cettaits
Papers to their Lordships.
A Message was received from the Lords, stating►
that their Lordships had referred the Report of the
Secret Committee of the Commons, .together` with
the several Papers coMmunicated to that Hoos4
to a'Committee of Secrecy appointed by their LortL
ships, and that being at all times desirous to main 4
tain a good communication between the two Houses,
they would return such Papers as the Common.
might be desirous of, from time to time, - -

BRA.GGE moved, ‘1 That it be an instralion
to the Committee of Secrecy, that they have powek
to communicate, from time to time, with the Cott.,
mime of Secrecy appointed by the, Lords;".....
Agreed to. .

he House then went into Committee to con.
sider of exempting Curates, unacr certain cir.
ettmstances, from the Payment of the Dury UIor:
_

tiorses. •
Mr. M. A. TAYL?It moved a Resolution, that
Curates, officiating as such; And':
who should not be,
assessed .to the-Duty upon Incomes should be ex...
empted from the Payment of the • Hone 'Duty ;
which being agreed to, and.the ,House resumed,
the Resolution was reported, and ordered to be re.
ceived on Monday next.
Mr. Coital-. proposed, that on Monday next the
House should go into a Committee, when he should
Move, that the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland be au.
thorited to prohibit the Exportation of Corn and
Potatoes, and to permit the Importation of Corn
a.od. Fish into Ireland; 'and, in the mean time, hit
moved,-that there be laid before the House sundry
Papers, relative to the Proclamations issued by.•the
Lord Lieutenant of ft ehind on the subjea, which
were ordered to be laid before the-House. •
The Report of the. Committee on the Seditious
Meeting Bill was brooght up.
The continuance of the Bill was axed to six

weeks after the commencement of the next Session of
Parliament. The Bill was. ordered to be read a
third time on Mondaynext..
The Irish Permanent Service Bill was committed,
and, with Amendnients, reported to the HoUse.
The Irish Tea Duty Bill was committed,. and,
the House being resumed, the Report Was.brought
up and ordered to be received o 0 Mon6y next;
The Rice Importation Irish. Bill, was.read a first
time, and after a few words-between Messrs. CUR.
Wart and CORRY, 45 to the exteui of the Provision-,
of the Bill, it was ordered to be read a second time
on Monday next.
Mr. BRAGGY brought up the Report of the
Lottery and Custom Duty Bills, which:were order.
ed to be read a third time on Monday next.
The Barley Malt Bill was committed, and the
Report ordered to be received on Monday.
Mr. N. 11 ANSITT ART moved, that a Committee
be appointed to propose an Estimate of
Cloathing of the for the the Pay and
year z So