The Sun.
London, England, 1839-07-16 00:00:00

and he should propose going into Committee on Thursday
next. The Hon. Member for Droitwich had asked his
opinion as to the bastardy clauses. The effect of the new
clauses would be to transfer the powers now given to the
quarter sessions, and with the same provisions, to the petty
sessions to he decided by the Magistrates.
Mr. G. PALMER opposed the second reading. He
thought twelve months was quite sufficient to enable the
Noble Lord to bring before the House every measure
necessary to place the Poor-law on a permanent footing.
Mr. HINDLEY in opposing the present Bill, would
not recur to the abuses of the old system, but decidedly
objected to the continuance of the powers of the three
kings of Somerset House. The diet table under the Poor-
law Act fixed 6 oz. of bread for breakfast, 7 oz. for din-
ner, 6 oz. for supper, with 1 oz. of butter and 1 oz. of
cheese for the different meals, and no change, except twice
a week, when suet pudding was introduced at dinner, wa-
ter being the only drink. The price of land in
that part of the country, within a short distance of Mar-
gate or Ramsgate, was at that time 31. per acre, and
was now from 3/. 10s. to 5/. It was abominable
to treat the poor in such a way, when such a
high price was obtained for the land. A great
deal had been said about the increase of morality, which
was likely to take place under the New Poor-law, but by a
return recently presented it appeared that the number of
illegitimate births was 121 per cent. greater than the
number registered before. He thought that before next
August ample time would be afforded for the inquiries to
be made on the subject, and the introduction of such
amendments as were necessary.
Mr. FIE LDE N was convinced that if the Bill should
not be repealed many serious troubles would arise. One
object of this Bill was said to be the advancement of the
amount of wages, but it had not answered this purpose.
But even if it went to raise wages, he should still object
to the unconstitutional powers of the Commissioners, which
nothing could justify. He should give every opposition in
his power to the measure. _ _

Mr. M. PHILLIPS said that in the agricultural dis-
tricts this Bill had proved an inestimable blessing to the
working classes. A few years ago there was scarcely a
farmer who paid a regular rate of wages, for each one
sought to eke out his wages by a labourer going the regu-
lar round. This system was now entirely unknown. There
was a comfort and respectability attaching to these parishes,
which he had looked for in rain, until the introduction
of this measure.— (Hear, hear.) The all, how-
ever, was capable of improvement. He viewed with
jealousy the powers of the Commissioners, but they cer-
tainly bad been engaged in a difficult work. They were
now seeking to give them power permanently. It was
his wish to give the plan a fair and candid trial, and in
Committee he had no doubt that many valuable sug-
gestions would be made to enable them to correct the
abuses in the Bill, and produce a measure which would
promote the welfare of the country to a still greater degree
than the Bill now in operation.
Mr. BOOTLE WIL BRA HDI would vote in favour
of the /lon. Member for Macclesfield, as he considered
that it was too late a period of the Session to introduce
such an important measure.
Strangers were ordered to withdraw, and the House
divided. The numbers were—
For the amendment
Against it l2O
Majority against the amendment —B5
The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to
be committed.

CATHEDRAL AND ECCLESIASTICAL PRE-

FERMENTS BILL.

The Cathedral and Ecclesiastical Preferments Bill went
through Committee.
LOWER CANADA GOVERNMENT BILL.

Mr. BERNAL brought up the Report on the Lower
Canada Government Bill.

Mr. LABOUCHE RE proposed an amendment to
clause 5, to the effect that no law should be passed by the
Legislature of Lower Canada, relative to the tenure of
lands, until after thirty days' notice had been published
in the Gazette.

The amendment was agreed to, and the Report was re.
ceived.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL said he should on Thursday
next move the third reading of the Canada Bill before the
other Orders of the Day.
METROPOLIS POLICE BILL.
Mr. F. MAULS moved the further consideration of the
Report of this Bill.

The Report was agreed to, after a short discussion ; and
the Bill was ordered to be read a third time on Wed-
nesday.
The Slave Trade (Portugal) Bill was read a third time,
and ordered to bo committed on Wednesday.
The Indemnity Bill was read a third time, and passed.
The Soap Duties Drawback Bill was read a third time
and passed.

Mr. PIGOTT brought in a Bill to amend an Act made
in the fourth year of the reign of King George the Fourth,
intituled, " An Act to amend and render more effectual
the provisions of an Act made in the fiftieth year of his late
Majesty's reign, for preventing the administering and taking
unlawful oaths in Ireland."

The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and
the House adjourned at Two crClock.

HOUSE OF LORDS, JULY 15.
The LORD CHANCELLOR toot his seat on the Woolsaci
at Five o'Clock.

A message from the House of Commons brought up the
Turnpike Acts Continuation Bill, which was read a first
time, and ordered to be read a second time to-morrow.
Lord DUNCANNON laid on the table a Report
from ,tir. Barry, and others, in reference to the stones to
be used in building the new Houses of Parliament.
Lord REDESDALE presented a petition from SL
Mauves in favour of a penny postage.
The Bankrupts' Estate (Scotland) Bill, which the
LORD CHANCELLOR stated was principally for the purpose
of reffulating the present system of bankruptcy in Scotland,
was read a second time.

The Supreme Courts (Scotland) Bill, for regulating and
increasing the salaries of the Judges was read a second

irne.

EDUCATION.
Lord BROUGHAM rose to move the second reading
of his Education Bill. Considering the great length of
time which be had occupied on a former occasion
in stating his views on this snbject, and the attention
he had then met with, he should not now trespass for any
considerable period of time. He drew from the debate on
the subject of education, which took place about ten days
ago, the most consolatory admissions with regard to popu-
lar education, as being a matter of paramount im-
portance. He drew admissions of the same satisfac-
tory nature also, from the debate, in reference to reli-
gious instruction. It was a very great mistake, however,
to suppose that anything which had passed on Friday week
night,
present had
luesanything ttohedodewciistihonthetosuwbhsitcahnceh'
eof
had
e
now to pray their Lordships to come. Their
Lordships must recollect what the question then was—
what the shape it took, and what was the principal ground
raised in objection to the Government plan. In the first
place it was simply upon the supposed defect in the Go-
vernment plan of providing religious instruction for some,
and a due consideration between the machinery about
to be put in motion and the establishments of the
country. It was clear that that had nothing to do with
the gill now before the House. Some might think
he had gone too far, and others that he had not
gone far enough in his provision for religious in-
struction ; and each party might be at libery to
suggest his amendment in Committee. He rejoiced,
however, now that he had lived to see it admitted on all
hands, that national education for the people was a matter
of paramount importance, and that the want of the
means of religious instruction pressed most urgently on
the attention of the Legislature ; and this was a Bill framed
for the purpose of enabling the people to obtain
such instruction for providing to supply the defects,
and of founding a system of National Education.
He had a right, from the debate which had re.
cently taken place, from his private conversations
with Noble Lords, and from the frame of the resolu-
tions which had keen taken to the foot of the Throne,
to say that ninety-nine parts in a hundred of the
argument then used was, that Parliament was not
the subject—that Parliament had been passed
that a vote of one House had placed at the disposal of the
Ministers of the Crown a certain sum of money, which
they, by an Order in Council had intended to ap-
propriate to a particular purpose, which might be
right or wrong, but which, at all events, Parliament
ought to have been consulted upon. That was a con-
stitutional ground of objection to take, and he had grap-
pled with it at the time. He merely referred to that de-
bate to show the distinction between the question then before
the House and the question now before it. Here was a
Bill brought before Parliament, and to their Lordships, as
respect and deference rendered due, it was submitted to
them in the first instance. The argument of the
lateness of the perio 1 of the Session at which he
now stood before them was not an applicable ob-
jection. At a very early period of the Session
in which he brought the Bill in he explained the subject
fully to their Lordships—this Session he had done the same
thing, and the reason he bad not sooner proceeded with it
was the very great difficulty arising from shaping the detailsof
the Bill so as to steer clear of the great and important
polemical question as to religious instruction. From ob.
serving—he would not say a want of tolerance, because in
these days a spirit of intolerance in any quarter was out of
the question—but from observing a want of accommodation
on the part of the Dissenters, and on the part of the
Church this difficulty had arisen. He had not hesitated to
state this to a meeting of the Dissenters, consisting of from
500 to 600. He considered, as he told them, they were
to blame for not taking one step in the nature
of conciliation towards having a more enlightened flock.
" That the soul be without knowedge, is not good ;" above
all, it was not good for religious purposes. Far
from undervaluing religious instruction, if he were
asked whether he would have the children of the
labouring classes taught school instruction without
religious instruction—without doubt he should answer in
the negative. But if be were asked whether he would rather
that they should remain entirely in the dark than be taught
secular instruction, without that secular instruction keing
accompanied with religious instruction, he would say, most
undoubtedly not. If he could not get them religious instruc-
tion he would prefer to total ignorance that they should
have secular instruction, knowing well that the
Clergy could afterwards operate more efficiently on the
secularly instructed mind than upon the totally ignorant.
It was now no little delight and consolation to those who
looked upon popular education as an object to be desired,
division,s
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the wildest enthusiast, and his hopes and predictions
would have been laughed at. He gratefully acknowledged,
as all friends of popular improvement and public instruction
must acknowledge, the wisdom and goodness, of that power
which constantly brought good out of e-;11, that he had
filet House should
lived to see the day that a debate in