The Sun.
London, England, 1839-03-01 00:00:00

The Committee on Standing Orders was also a COM.
metre of a purely judicial character, its duty beine
Merely to report whether tile rules end regulatioes of
the House had been properly complied with. But he
must deny that the majority of Committees on Private
Bills were exclusively of a judicial character. He would
not say that, none of these Committees possessed any
tlling of a judicial character, but he would sty that in
the majority of Private Bills, which were referred to
Committees of that House, questions arose, not of a
Judicial character only, but in many instance: of a poli-
tical character also.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.")
He would suppose that a Private Bill was brought in
to that House for the purpose of lighting any town with
gas; would the Hon. Gentleman contend that this was
a question exclusively of a judicial character—( Hear,
hear)—and yet the House would be called upon to ex-
clude from a Committee on this subject the repre-
sentatives of the place, because they happened to pos-
sess a local interest in the question. They would
Ay that the Members representing this town, who
were thoroughly conversant with the subject, who
knew exactly the circumstances connected with the case,
who knew the characters of those opposing and pro-
moting the measure, who had the opportunity of col-
lecting the opinions of persons conversant with the sub-
J,-et, are necessarily excluded from the Committee. Th.
Ilonourable Gentleman alludes to the practice of the
Louse of Lords upon this subject, but surely he-forgets
the difference which exists in the circumstances in
which Members of the House of Lords and Members
of this Hoase are placed. He forgets that the Mem-
bers of the House of Lords have no representative
character, and surely he would not apply such a rule
as this to those who represented the interests of others.
lie denied the right of this House to exclude a whole
class from serving on Committees in this way. He had
a strong objection to the dangerous precedent whic
they would be setting by thus disabling a whole h class
fiosn serving on Private Committees.—( Cheers.) But
he would like to see how they would be able to attain
the end which they sought by this measure. Having
excluded these Members from Private Committees,
would they also exclude them f-om voting in the House
of Commons, because if they did not do this they would
nothing.—( Hear, hear.) What would be the reply
of any Honourable Member when he should be told
°Y a resolution of this House that he should not
represent his constituents in a Private Committee? Why
he would tell them that he was determined then to re-
present them in the House of Commons, and when the
13d1 was brought before the House, he would then enter
fully into the discussion, as a duty which he owed to his
constituents. Such undoubtedly would be the conduct
of Members thus circumstanced. Such would be the
conduct to which they would be excited by the pressure
of the constituencies. They would force a discussion in
this House, and the time of the House would be occu-
pied in doing that which could be much more effectually
done in Private Committees. Hon. Members would be
forced to this conduct in order to redeem the pledges
Which they had given to their constituencies in their ad-
dresses prior to their election. Had they not in those
;Addresses pledged themselves to watch over the local
interests of the towns which they represented ? Had
they not been chosen, in many instances, not on politi-
cal grounds merely, but on account of their local con-
nections, and the high opinion entertained of their supe-
rior acquirements by those who had returned them.
But these constituencies could not say no intimate ac-
quaintance with their qualifications, no extensive know-
ledge of local interests were now of any avail. In fact,
a knowledge of local interests would operate as a quali-
fication, and constituero.es would be forced to elect a
stranger, to send to Scotland for a representative entirely
unconnected with the localitt and ignorant of local in-
terests. They would have to follow the example of
Kilkenny.—(Loud cheering.) He had great doubts
concerning their constitntionel right to do what they
lead proposed, and he considered it would be impossible
For them to carry this resolution into effect. If they
were able to exclude local interests from Private C m-
Mittees, still they would not do se from the House of
Commons. There were important interests connected
with politics in subjects which were brought before
Private Committees, and who so fitting to be on those
Committees as those who could give information with
tegard to local matters, could state the compromise
*Well had taken place between contending parties, and
reconcile the local differences. He should, therefore,
offer his strenuous opposition to a motion having for its
object the proscribing a whole class from doing their
duty to their constituents.—(Cheers.)
Capt. PEC HELL—The position of Members could
not be much better illustrated than it was a few Sessions
a,go, when there were no fewer than five Railway Bills
for Brighton before a Committee of that House.
Would his constituents at Brighton have been satis-
fied had he and his Colleague been excluded from that
Committee ? Would they have been satisfied that
%eir local influence should be shut out from the
Ceieneaittee ? He for one could not stand there, and
by his vote exclude himself from Committees of that
House, inasmuch as at that moment he had two Pri-
rate Bills lying on the table of the House.—( A
laugh-) He was perfectly convinced that his consti-
tuents Would not be satisfied with the amendment of the
Hon. Member for Kilkenny—they would not be con-
tented unless the Members they sent to Parliament
wese enabled to attend to their interests. He would
therefore vote against the amendment.—(Cries of " Di-
vide, divide.")
Mr. GREENE was not much in the habit of
troubling the House with his observations, but as
this wes a matter to which he had much turned
his attention, he hoped the House would allow him
t° address a very few words to them. He- felt,
himself obliged to dissent from what had fallen not only
from the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. P.
-Thompson), but also from what ha fallen from the
Right Hon. Baronet below him (S d
ir R. Peel.) His
'tp.inion was that the proceedings before Private Corn-
neeteses of that House were most strictly judicial.—
Of c %terse he was bound to dissent from what had fallen
from t:ee Gallant Captain who had just sat down. He
could not think that constituencies of Hon. Members
would be at all dissatisfied with their exclusion from
Committees a,Tecting their local interests—on the con-
trary he thought that very frequently their proceedings
to those Committees gave great and entire satisfaction to
their constituents. Take any line of railway, or take
even that alluded to by the Hon. and Gallant Member
for Brighton—take aoy line on which there were con-
tending and competing companies—
Captain PECHELLsoThere were five competing
eftettnieis there.

Mr-GRE•ENE—Take any line wii're there were two
competing comnanies they would find that, in spite of
all evidence aauced before that Committed, the
Parties interested could tell, by a glance round the
100 m, how the Members present would vote.—(Cheers.)
It seemed to him (Mr. G.) that they were enacting a
Perfect farce when they sent parties before these Com-
-I.‘ittees with their counsel, agents, and witnesses, some-
tift, .'es at enormous, always at great, expense, and yet,
whaf•ever evidence was placed before that Committee,
nOt One vote in it would be altered. There was
n tine% %fitness who gave evidence on the question.
nev elleved it was Mr. Chalmers, who said that he had
r "en
the vote of a Chairman of a Private Com-
mittee
Br e altered by any speech, or any evidence that was
et offered before one.—(Cheers and laughter.) These
Bills
gave power to parties to take land ;—under other
4,id Ordinary .
, circumstances the law held that a man's
&louse was his castle, • yet -these Bills gave the parties
Power to take land or house; as it suited their purpose.
Therefore the whole of these Wit;itaught to be investi-
rietl'd oonimpartial and public g Zak and therefore
thought that the Committees ought to be strictly
Judicial.—( Cheers.) There was another point that he
thought was most disgraceful, and tended to lower
the character of the House. He would ask any Hon.
Member who had the slightest knowledge of the work-
ing of Committees on Railway. Bills, whether it was not
a fact, that individuals who were able to command
large local or legislative influence, were not en-
abled thereby to command ten times the value for
their land required by the Company.—(Loud cheers.)
:,"he fact was perfectly notorious. Large local influence
°eh:4g engaged in the Committee it was said would put
an end
.to this state of affairs, but on the contrary he
knew from experience that the case was the other way.
He would stale one instance in his own knowledge. A
Pe;:l.(In complaine4 to him of the proceedings of a Corn-
ty,t'ee----he said, wi-:y not go betore the Committee
then ? The answer was, he could not afford it, because
‘',r. So-and-So, who had p romised to join him, had been
b I
°ll(ght off' by the Company, who had given him a large
Vee for his land.—(Hear, hear.) He had a strong
"eling upon the subject, and felt an honest desire to
ee it improved.—( Hear, hear.) ifig feeling was very
st.on ic--his mind was made up that unless they-re-
to
) Ired local influence from these Committees 0.3 e pub-
-I'e would not be satisfied, and the disgraceful system
Of canvassing be continued.—(Cheers.)
h Mr. WARBURTON—There was one point which
aad not yet been adverted to, which in his mind
PlaroacheO very near to corruption. He had beard
that while Railway Companies were in progress and were
before the Committee a gentleman gave his regular
endance and voted always in a particular way.
After the Bill had been obtained, and the Shares had
sen to a premium, a person, under the name of a
Secretary, or some such term, wrote to him, stating that
a certain
7,..iotirill number of Shares had been put to his name,
the intention, no doubt, that the premium arising
, those Shares should be a bonus or remuneration
's."lirlli!,
.services in the Committee.—(.Loud cheers.)
")ngS had been done.—(Loud cries of " Name,
name'") lie would not give a name, but the facts
almosi:erfectly notorious, and were spoken of as passing
every day, The question was how to preveC!
twbaast enrruption ? In his opinion the only way to do so
an, by,) closely limiting the number of the Committee,
ueu
aty this means greatly condensing the responsibility.
l reed with the Right Hon. Bart. opposite (Sir R.
Peel) that the questions that came before those Com-
i n)c 't,te(...a were very often questions of expediency. but still
li !tino_rboo.lieved that Members not having local interest or
"Mtteace Would do the business as well, and give much
kletifaction to the public.—(Hear, hear.) He
j did not titiok that the number of Members upon a