The Sun.
London, England, 1839-02-26 00:00:00

E ITION -F
IV 3 26 1 9
THE N, D()N, TURSTIA EBRUA R , , .

plain cf the Learned Sedge ; what he corn-
pktined of was that a correct return had not been
laid upon the table of tl e House ; if the return he had
moved for bad been produced, he should have had all the
information which he required. If the Learned Judge had
advised the commutation of the sentence, all that he
asked was that the correspondence that had taken
place upn that subjet should be laid on the table of the
House.

After a raw words from the Marquis of WEST-
MEATIt and the Marquis of NORMANBY,
Lord LYNDHURST hoped the Noble Marquis
would lay a copy of the medical certificate on the
table of the House.

The Marquis of NORMANBY objected. There
were twelve or fifteen names included in the certificate,
and it not be got at without obtaining all the cer-
tificates for-the last two years.
Lord LYNDHURST would move that the certifi-
cate he laid upon the table of the House,
The Mqrquis of NORM ANBY said that it was on
the remnmendation of the Judge that a commutation
of sentence had taken place.
Lord LYNDHURST said that was not the course
pursued in England. If a Judge commuted a sen-
tence after pronouncing it he would be stultifying his
own acts.

The Marquis of NORM ANBY—In Ireland the
Judge either passed or recorded sentence of
death, and in either ease that was followed by
a recommendation to the Lord Lieutenant, bafore
any commutation took place.
Lord BROUGHAM thought the whole business of
leaving for execution was like A B C to his Noble and
Learned Friend 'appetite. It now appeared that, instead
of a med nal certificate from a medical man, there must
be also a r:commendation to the Lord Lieutenant. He
begged the attention of the Noble Marquis to this—that.
it was upan the responsibility of a medical man that the
whole of these commutatioris took place. Such a pro-
ceeding was most monstrous.—( Hear, hear, hear.) If
upon the responsibility of a medical man whether
employed by the Government, or called in accidentally,
any sentence was to be commuted or altered,
all he could say was, that no sentence need
ever be passed.—( Hear, hear.) They all knew
how certificates were obtained they were mere
matters of opinion, and they all had seen how they
were procured and used in the other House of Par-
liament. They had seen Honourable Members
who were unabls to attend Election Committees, ba-
cause it was inconvenient for them to turn round
and vote a different way from• the manner in which
they had voted on a previous Committee. A medical
certificate was very convenient, as it might turn the
balance the other way, and seat a Member. That had
oceurre.l in his own knowledge. No medical man
ought to have any piexer or authority to alter the sen-
teneeo
inquiry.
No
fth e law It should
such couldtake
b e
arrangement matter of inquiry, and
very grave
place in that country, nor was it recognised in the
English law, that upon the recommendation or respon-
sibility of a medical man, a sentence of any sort could
be commuted.

Lord LYN D HURST begged to inform the Noble
Marquis that they would not excuse the attendance of
a juror upon the certificate of a medical man in that
country. They required the personal attendance of the
juror. . . .

Lord BRO --GHAM—Yes ; and they subjected
him to cross-examination.

The Marquis of NORMANBY said, the question
was, whether the prioners were fit for a voyage to
New South Wales or not, and it had always been the
custom in Ireland that a medical officer should report
whether the parties were in a fit state or not. It did
not follow that because the convicts did not go out in
that transport, that the sentence should be commuted.
If the convicts were retained in prison in consequence
of ill health, it rested with the Lord Lieutenant to
decide whether the sentence should be commuted or not..

Lord LYNDHURST hoped* the Noble Marquis
would produce all the certificates.
Lord BROUGHAM—AII the certificates for the
last two years. His Lordship then gave notice that to-
morrow lie would move for the returns which bad been
al!uded to.

EARL RODEN begged in the name of the Gentry
of Ireland to express his satisfaction that. this subject
was likely to occupy the attention of the Noble and
Learned Lord. They felt that the present unhappy
state of Ireland was much caused by the opening
of the prisons by the Noble Marquis. He was proud
that the subject had been taken up by the Noble and
Learned Lord, in whose hands he was happy to leave it.
Tne Marquis of BUTE presented a number of pe-
titions from Northamptonshire and Warwickshire
against any alteration in the present Corn laws.
Mr. Tierney, from the Tax-office, presented papers.
--Adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS. FER. 25.

The SPEAKER took the Chair at the usual hour.
Mr. Tierney presented Papers from the Tax-office.
Papers were also presented from the Trinity-house.

SOUTH EASTERN RAILWAY.

Chancellor, Master, and Scholars, of the University of
Oxford, against the Ecclesiastical Duties and Revenues
Bill. The petition was agreed to, with only t...v0 dis-
sentients. The Hen. Member presented two other
petitions to the same effect.
IMPRISONMENT FOR DEBT.

Capt. PECHELL inquired whether the Attorney-
General was disposed to introduce an amendment to the
38th section of the Imprisonment foe Debt Act; the
provisions respecting bail were perfectly useless regard-
ing country prisoners, as the Commissioners had
required bail to attend in Lincoln's•inn, and there
were now many prisoners confined in the gaol of
Horsham, for debt, through the inconvenience attaching
to that provision in the Act.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said he was not
aware that such a question would have been put to
him, involving as it necessarily did the construction put
upon the Act by the Learned Judges. If upon considers-
Von he found an alteration required he would be pre-
pared to introduce it.
OUTRAGE ON THE BRITISH FLAG.

An HON. MEMBER inquired whether the Secre-
tary for the Admiralty had received any com-
munication from Lieutenant Croke commanding the
Express packet at Mexico, respecting the outrage on the
British flag at Vera Cruz.
Mr. C. WOOD said he had before stated that the
only letter the Admiralty had received from Commo-
dore Douglas, the proper channel for communication,
was the one which he had quoted ; but he had also
stated that they had seen a letter, or rather the copy of
a letter, from Lieutenant Croke, addressed to the Con•
sul at Vera Cruz.

On the motion of Mr. SHAW LEFEVRE, the
Standing Orders Committee having reported that the
Standing Orders had been complied with, leave was
given to bring in a Bill to divert the line of the South
Eastern Railway. •

Captain PECHELL asked if the Express packet
had arrived in this country, and the answer which the
Secretary for the Admiralty might give to this question
would guide him (Captain Pecheli) as to another ques-
tion.

LONDON AISiD SOUTHAMPTON RAILWAY.
Mr. SHAW LEFEVRE brought in the London
and Southampton Railway Extension Bill, which was
read a first time, and orderod to be read a second to-
morrow.

Mr. C. WOOD said he had already stated that they
had received a copy of a letter from Lieut. Croke to the
Consul at Vera Cruz.—(A cry of " You have not an
twered the question."
Captain PECHELL—My question was, has the
Express Packet arrived in England?—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. C. WOOD—It has.

Lord INGESTRIE said he was not aware, when
he had spoken upon this subject before, that the
Express Packet had arrived in England—(Hear,
bear)—and he had been told that the only information
which the Government had was the letter from Commo-
dore Douglas. He thought that the letter of Lieutenant
' Croke, though not quite regular in the Naval
130,..partment, was important to be laid before the
House—(Hear, hear, hear)—and perhaps that letter
might enable the Hon. Secretary for the Admiralty
to answer the question which he (Lord Ingestrie) bad
formerly put—namely, what had become of the pilot ?
—( Hear, hear.) He also wished to know whether
Admiral Baud.n hid made the apology immediately
after he had discovered the indiscretion of the Prince
De Joinville, or whether he had waited till Commodore
Douglas had appeared in his frigate ?—(Loud cries of
" Hear, hear.")
I\lr. C. WOOD believed that he had stated, most
distinctly, the other evening, that the Admiralty had no
other correspondence upon the matter, except a letter
from Commodore Douglas ; and he thought that in the
present state of the matter it was not discreet that any
further . question should be put on the occasion, involy
ing, as it does, the peace of the two countries. Until
it was brought to a conclusion, in his opinion, it would
he better tot to stir the question in that House. He
had stated that there was a letter from Lieut. Croke to
the Minister at Mexico. Ile thought it would be better
that he had communicated with the Commander of the
corvette, who was his senior officer. He had thought it
his duty to state as little as possible on the occasion,
because he thought it improper to state more than
was absolutely necessary. What be had stated
was, that the Admiralty, through the proper channel,
the Senior officer commanding upon the station, had re-
ceived information, stating that he had received a satis-
factory explanation on the subject. That explanation
had been offered and accepted by Commodore Douglas,
upon the spat, atid if he considered the explanation given
by the French A'.miral to be satisfactory, the House
and the Government ought to take it in the sama sense,
unless they received futther information from Commo-
dore Douglas, altering the facts as they at present
stood. He did not think it was discreet to say more at
the present time. He would only repeat that the
House ought to be satisfied, when the Coinmodore of
an English squadron professed himself to be satisfied
with the apology made for an aggression.
Captain PECHELL said his next question would be
a very discreet one, and he was most anxious to disem-
barass it of any reference to a diffe7ence between that
country and France, or between the Admiral, Commander
or Lieutenant of the packet, and the French. He wished
to put the question as between the Lieutenant commanding
the Express, a very gallant officer whom he (Capt. Pechell )
had served with, and the Board of Admiralty. He wished
to know whether the Board of Admiralty had re-
ceived any communication from Lieutenant Croke.
There was a certain opinion abroad in which he
(Captain Peahen) cordially concurred, that the offi-
cer commanding the packet should have bundled
the Prince de Joinville, or whoever it was, overboard.—
(Much laughter) He wished, therefore, to know whe-
ther any information had been received ironi that officer
relative to the taking the pilot out of the packet ?
Mr. C. WOOD could only repeat for the third time
--(Hear, and laughter)—that a communication had
been received from Lieut. Croke, which was forwarded
by Captain Plumridge, at the bead of the packet esta-
blishtnent at Falmouth, the copy of a letter which had
been addressed by him to the British Consul at VLra
Cruz, detailing the transaction.
Viscount INGESTRE wished to ask if negocia-
lions were still going on with the French Admiral or
not? Because, if the officer commanding the packet
was in England, they had a right to have his explana-
tion. He wished also to know whether Admiral
Baudin had made a written apology before the appear-
ance of Commodore Douglas's squadron ?
Mr. WOOD had reason to believe that the next
despatches which came from Commodore Douglas
would give a much more detailed notice of the trans-
action than the short account they already had. lie
would again state that the only information they had
from Commodore Douglas had been laid before them,
and he did not think it becoming in his NOble Friend or '
the House to press the matter farther at present.
Viscount INGESTRE said his Hon. Friend would
see he had not yet answered his question—(Loud cries
of " Hear, hear")—that was, whether negociations were
still pending ?

Mr. C. WOOD—That is a question which cannot
be answered by me.

PRIVATE BILLS.

Mr. BANNERMAN, on behalf of Mr. Poulett
Thomson, t,ave notice that, to-morrow, he should move
the re-appointment of the Select Committee on private
Bills.