The Sun.
London, England, 1839-08-16 00:00:00

Viscount MELBOURNE—There never was such a
thing as that done.
Lord ELLE NBOROUG H said that to know what
measures were necessary to be taken, it was requisite to know
what the orders were. The Bill confounded two prin-
.

ciples that ought tohave-beenkept entirely -distinct—
measures with respect to Portugal, and measures
with respect to other countries. It was said their Lord-
ships were only now asked to pass such a measure as would
indemnify the officers for executing the orders that had
been given ; but that was a totally distinct case from that
brought under their notice, because they were now asked to
make provision for indemnifying officers who seized the
vessels of any nation. When he heard the observations of
the Noble Duke he had thought that although the Noble
Duke pointed out the difficulties and dangers that might
arise, he might perhaps have been dwelling on an exagge-
rated picture of the evil ; but he (Lord Ellenborough) had
since had placed in his hands the last Report of the Com-
missioners of Sierra Leone, and he found that all the Noble
Duke had prophesied was actually intended—(Hear)—and
the object was to seize the vessels of all nations that might
be suspected of carrying on the slave trade. The Com-
missioners said that even a treaty with America was of little
importance—that the slave trade bad gone from France to
Portugal, from Portugal to America, and that it would go
to all the States of South America; but they said there
was a remedy in time of war, and that Great Britain exer-
cised the right of searching all neutral vessels, and that
that was the only possible mode of putting down the
slave trade.—( Hear, hear, hear.) The Commissioners
might be right in that, but what they meant was universal
war.—( Cheers.) And desirous as he was of putting an
end to the slave trade, he was not prepared to run the risk
of universal war for the accomplishment even of that ob-
ject.—( Hear, hear.) He was surprised that Noble
Lords opposite, after hearing what the Noble Duke had
said should not yet have more fully explained themselves,
and should not have evinced the slightest disposition to
answer the objections the Noble Duke had stated, and by
acting in conformity with constitutional principles, place
the House in a position to do that which it desired
to do—indemnify her Majesty's officers acting under those
orders that were necessary. He was not prepared to give
them the right to search vessels of all nations in time of
peace ; and whatever might be the feeling of the country
with respect to this measure now, yet when they found that
under the delusive hopes held out by this Bill, they had been
betrayed into measures that would lead to a collision with
France, and a collision with the United States, and that
there was a feeling of universal jealousy on the part of all
maritime powers, and a determination to maintain their
rights, by war, the people would thee think that the
Noble Duke was wise, and that Noble Lords opposite
had been led away to gratify the present feelings
of the country to do that which had been productive of those
evils.

Earl MINTO said, that of all the surprising and as-
tounding statements which he was sorry to say he had
heard that night, the greatest was that with which the
Noble Baron commenced his speech, in which he called on
the Government-to communicate to Parliament the terms
of the orders issued to her Majesty's cruizers—a thing
which had been universally resisted and refused and never
demanded by that House—( Hear, hear.) And for what
purpose was that to be done ? Why that that House might
have the appearance of directing and conducting those very
measures to which the Noble Duke and the Noble Baron said
that House ought not to be a party, but which ought to be
conducted on the sole responsibility of the Government—
{ Hear, hear.) The question ;of the relation of this coun- •
try with other countries had been so well argued that he
would not trouble their Lordships with going over the ail-
guments again., The Noble Duke had accused the Go-
vernment of neglecting treaties, and of asking for measures
that would lead this country into war with other Powers,
and more especially with the United States. There was
nothing in the Bill calculated 'to excite the slighttst jealousy
on the part of the United States.—( Hear, hear.) The
slave trader had in many instances resorted to the flag
and the ships of the United States. But bow had
he done that? Why as the Noble and Learned Lord
(Lord Brougham) had stated, a vessel was built in Arne-
rice, and shipped at the Havannah. She goes from Ha-
vannah to the coast of Africa with an American captain.
She got a cargo of slaves, and came away with a Portu•
guese or American flag. Five or six instances had occurred
in which ships of this description had been stopped ; but
how have the Americans treated the capture of those ves-
sels? The parties have been conducted to Boston The
authorities there had said, that according to their feelings,
the slave trade was a piracy not to be tolerated by any
Christian country. They had not remonstrated against
the capture of the vessels, but they had, on the contrary,
requested that our officers and men should remain there
to give evidence in their courts for the conviction
of their subjects who had violated those laws.—( Hear,
hear.) That was the danger we rao of a collision with
the United States. The simple qUestion was, whether
their Lordships 'should or should not, in one form or
i
another, co-operate with the Government in putting and
end to this detestable traffie.—( Hear, hear.) The Noble
Lord then read the address that had recently been sent
up to her Majesty on this subject, and the answer to that
address. Well, then, on the faith of Parliament, those
orders had been issued. You have been informed (said the
Noble Earl) by my Noble Friend, and I repeat that infor-
mation, that orders of a most peremptory nature have been
despatched calculated to carry out the views of Parliament,
orders which I shall not at present minutely describe, but
I am perfectly ready to tell what will be the effect of
those orders.—( Hear, hear.) Those orders will lead to
the detention and capture by our cruisers of allslavers under
the Portuguese flag, whether on the north side of the line
or on the south side of the line, without regard to place or
time. ,Those orders will lead to the detention and to
the capture of every piratical vessel sailing without a legal
national character, let her be found sailing where she
may.—( Cheers.) That will be the effect of the orders.—
( Cheers.) The Noble Earl then proceeded to say, that
to execute these orders, it was necessary the officers

should be protected and indemnified for the consequences.
He did not think that either the Government or his friends
would take upon themselves any great responsibility in

doing all they could to meet the wishes of the whole of the
people of the country to suppress the Slave Trade. lie
would now endeavour to satisfy their Lordships that the
enactments of the Bill were necessary. The first enact-
ment was that her Majesty should issue orders to capture
vessels not having on board the proper flag and papers ;
he thought no Noble Lord could doubt the propriety of
that enactment, because the mixed Commission Courts
constituted under treaties could deal with no ships except
those which had the colours and character of the countries
to which the mixed Commission Court belonged, and
therefore, unless this power was given, vessels carrying
on this illegal traffic would have nothing to do but to sink
their papers, and they would get off with impunity. It
was necessary therefore that a power should be given to
stop all ships that had not a lawful national character.
Such a provision did not confer any additional privilege
on the Crown, it only gave it the same powers that it now
possessed. It was impossible also that any violation of
a foreign flag could take place under this clause of the
Bill. Then with respect to the next clause it provided
that if any slaves were found on board the vessel they were
to be brought to adjudication. Was not that provision
necessary in order to deal effectually with piratical vessels?
If such vessels were allowed to ran free, how could slaves
that were found on board be brought to adjudication ? The
next clause indemnified all persons against actions, and es-
tablished a Court, in which all claims were to he tried.
With respect to the 4th clause he felt bound to differ
with his Noble and Learned Friend, that it could be con-
veniently dispensed with, because he thought it essential
that there should be some distinct statement as to the
equipment which constituted a vessel carrying on the slave
trade. These were the several provisions of the Bill, and
he trusted their Lordships would give their assent to
them. He begged their Lordships to consider that the
slave trade of the world was at the present moment carried
on under the flag of Portugal. He had received returns rela-
tive to the number of vessels that had been captured for carry-
ing on the slave trade, and of 43 vessels 36 were Portu.
guese, 6 American, 1 Spanish, and 1 Russian. Latterly
the whole slave trade of Havannah had been carried on
under the flag of Portugal. In the papers now before
their Lordships, they would find Portugal expressing her
horror of the slave trade. Nothing was more zealous
than the language of Portugal against the slave trade, but
in proportion as she advanced ostensibly in horror of the
slave trade, in that proportion it increased under her flag.
—( Hear, hear.) She had declared the slave trade illegal,
and yet she was the only slave trade nation in the world.—
( Hear, hear.) The Noble Earl concluded by expressing
a hope that their Lordships would cordially co-operate
with her Majesty's Ministers in putting an end to this
detestable traffic.
The Earl of GALLO WA Y wished to know if the Bill
went into Committee, whether it was the intention of the
Government to alter the preamble, by stating that her
Majesty bad ordered ships engaged in the traffic to be
captured, instead of that she might order it.
Lord MELBOURNE said that there would be every
disposition, on the part of the Ministry, to do all that was
required.
Lord BROUGHAM thought that they were bound to
state the real fact in the preamble.
The Earl of MINTO said that the recital would run
That her Majesty had thought fit. "
After a few observations from Lord FITZGERALD,
Lord DENMA N rose and said—My Lords, I feel so
strongly on this subject, that I should not forgive myself
if I did not state my reasons for thinking that it is the
duty of your Lordships to pass the present Bill. It is
clearly admitted by the Noble Duke opposite, that Por-
tugal has no right to complain of any measures that
may be adopted to put an end to the traffic in
which they were engaged. lam not going to argue
this question with the slightest party feeling whatever,
but I think your Lordships having it now in your power to
prevent a great and enormous crime, it is your bounden
duty to do all in your power to accomplish so benevolent
and desirable an object. If the House does not pass this
Bill, they will be holding out a premium for the commis-
sion of a crime which diffuses blood over the whole
world, and I hold, therefore, that it is the duty of your
Lordships to part with no means of accomplishing so de-
sirable an object. Supposing this measure was made ap-
plicable to Portugal alone, would there be the slightest
objection to the passing of this Bill? Certainly not; and
if there is any objection arising from the other
provisions of the Bill they may be each struck
out. Your Lordships have now a case before
you, and you ought not to allow any opportunity to pats
which will enable you to make the suppression of the prac-
tice of the slave trade not merely a name, but a fact.
What possible objection can there be to putting this coun-
try in the same position as Portugal in the suppression
of the slave trade. My Noble Friend on the other side of
; the House must have forgotten the excellent judgment by
which he distinguished himself in 1823, when a Judge in
the Court in which 1 have the honour to preside ; that
judgment was that no subject of any nation had any right
to sue in the Counts of this country if he was guilty of a
crime that was looked upon as such in the law of nations.
The slave trade is looked upon as such, not only
by this country, but by Portugal herself.—( Hear, hear. )
Though my Noble Friend has forgotten that judgment,
the Right Rev. Prelate had stdted the same fact. The
Governnvnt, therefore, in my opinihn, ought net to
Ishrink from the performance of their duty in persevering