The Sun.
London, England, 1839-08-13 00:00:00

EVENING 14:DIT I ON.

reverse, and the people of Ireland would have deeply to
deplore the day which should see gentlemen op-
posite holding the reins of Government.—(Hear,
hear.) There were many things disagreeable to the
Government now in power, and perhaps nothing was more
disagreeable than what he thought was an unreasonable
urging on the part of their own friends, but they have a
great duty to perform. They have a duty to preserve
Ireland for the Crown of our generous Sovereign, whom
God bless. They have that solemn duty to perform ;
and therefore it was that Its hoped they would not de-
sert the position they hold ; and he looked forward to
the future period with extreme anxiety, seeing that no-
thing was to be done for his country. But he did not
despair. He knew there was a concentration of public
•
opinion—not in the maniac movement of Chartist vio-
lence. If the Irish people had chosen to join the
Chartists—if they had encouraged the leaders of the
Chartists—if they had appeared from place to place in
arms—if they had talked of the torch and the dagger.
which the Chartists talked of, what would be the secu-
rity among them at the present moment? He (Mr.
' O'Connell) was not terrifying or even threatening, but
they might be terrified at the state this country would
be in if the population of Ireland had joined in Charter
violence, had adopted Chartism, and had become, as it
were, a recruiting-sergeant, to augment the Chartists
here by the firmness and courage which the Irish
would naturally have shown.—( Hear, hear.) He had
risen to protest against the manner this country treated
Ireland, and to declare that with less than an English
franchise Ireland would not be content. Ireland wished
to have the same measure with regard to freemen that
England had, and if the other House of Parliament
thought fit to reject a Bill of that sort, on them would
the consequences of rejecting it fall.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. HUTTON and Major BRYAN denied that the
rage for corporate reform in Ireland bad subsided.
Lord MORPETH did not wish to raise any discus-
sion on the operation of the Poor-law Bill, but after
what had fallen from the Hon. and Learned Gentleman
opposite, he wished to observe. that though undoubtedly
in the election of Guardians, and in some other in-
stances, exhibitions of party feelings might have been
manifested (which was not much to be wondered at in a
country like Ireland), yet he did not think teat the gone-
ral complexion of the elections under the recent Poor-
law Act, by any means justified the general charge that
they had been tainted by a one-sided partisanship.—
( Hear, hear.)
Sir W. SOMERVILLE could not help expressing
his deep regret that this measure, which had so long
kept up a system of excitement in Ireland was doomed
to further delay. He was certain her Majesty's Minis-
ters had done their utmost to bring this measure to a
satisfactory conclusion, and although they had been un-
successful, yet Ireland ought to be grateful to Minister,
for having fought her battles in the way they had done :
but the Lords had rejected this measure on the dangerous
principle of refusing to give to the poor of Ireland the
same privileges which the poor in this country enjoyed.
With regard to the New Poor-law, if any violent party
spirit had been shown with regard to that Bill, it was
not on the popular side.--(Hear, hear.) He had hoped
that a measure framed for charitable purposes would
have been allowed qnietly to work its way ; but he was
sorry to say that had not been the case, and, if his in-
formation were correct, those who ought to have known
better, and who ought to have shown a good example,
had been the first to exhibit feelings of party violence
and bigotry.—(Hear, hear.)
IMr. WYSE considered that this question had been
virtually settled, although several delays had occurred,
Many evils had resulted in consequence of these delays.
Tiae Corporations that existed, knowing that Reform
must come, had almost suspended their functions as
regarded letting lands, improving towns, and repair-
ing public buildings. They were in a painful
state of suspended animation, having neither the
activity of life nor the tranquillity of death. This
being the case, it ought to be the object of the Legis-
lature to settle this question as soon as possible. The
Irish nation felt the present measure was an insult and
an injury, and any measure would be so felt which was
not similar to the English measure. He regretted
this because it kept up the spirit of disappointment.
i How could it be expected they would cultivate
the arts of peace unless they had peace. Nothing '
could be more absurd than the course pursued on this
question. The very persons who were acknowledged
capable of judging of the qualification necessary for a
Member of that House were told they were incapable
of judging of the propriety of making a bridge, or
lighting a street, or watering a road. But he trusted the
people of Ireland would not accept of any measure short
of an equality with England—be protested against any
thing short of this, and the people of Ireland would
spurn it as an insult ; they would rather wait for a
time than accept such terms as these. In 1824 they
had been refused an imperfect measure of Emancipa-
tion, and in 1829 they had obtained a more perfect
measure ; so although in 1839 they might be refused,
yet by waiting they would obtain a more perfect measure
of corporate reform.
Mr. RED IN GTON rose to deny what had often
been stated as to the party feeling which was alleged ex-
clusively to influence the elections under the Poor-law
in Ireland. He happened to know that in many cases
Protestants had been returned against Roman Catho-
lics, and that where the latter were returned they were
most respectable gentlemen, and not violent in politics,
Mr. CALLAGHAN felt it his duty to say on be-
half of the people of Ireland, that he deeply regretted
a Corporate Reform Bill had not passed this Session,
and that the Government had not been able to intro-
duce another Bill. He could testify that the popular
feeling in Ireland was strongly in favour of such a measure,
He lived in a district where the people had long been
oppressed by a corporation they detested.
Mr. SHAW wished it to be understood that he did
not mean to impugn the respectability of the Poor-law
guardians in Ireland. He had not alluded to differ-
ences of religion neither. All be said was that great
violence of party feeling bad entered into the elections,
and he appealed to the Noble Lord whether the Assist-
ant Commissioners would not confirm that statement.
1 Mr. SHIEL remarked that the Duke of Wellington
had said he would nut agree to any Irish Corporation
Bill till the Irish Poor-law Bill had passed (besides the
Irish Tithe Bill). Now, surely it was not fair to allege
1 anything which had happened under that Poor-law Bill
as an argument against granting Corporation Reform.—
(Hear, hear.) He certainly lamented that factious spirit
which, he could not deny, had entered into the elections
under the Poor-law in Ireland—(Hear, hear)—but it
was, he begged the House to observe, the necessary re-
suit of the state of parties in Ireland.—( Hear, hear.)
Let tke House recollect that when the English Corpo-
ration 10 first passed, the immediate result was a tre-
mendous contest between parties in this country.—
(Hear, hear.) But two years bad scarcely elapsed be-
fore all this party spirit subsided.--(Hear.) And so it
would be in Ireland.--( Hear.) We must not judge of the
ultimate results of a measure by its first fruits.--(Hear.)
Mr. ASHTON YATES could not help expres-
sing his surprise at the statements of the Recorder for
Dublin., that there was an indifference with respect to
the measure in the people of Ireland. He had travelled
over several parts of Ireland, and every where that he
bad been to he found the people in favour of theßill.
The amendments were then ordered to be c idered
that day three months.
PRISONS BILL.
__

Lord J. RUSSELL proposed that the House should
agree to the amendments of the House of Lords to
this Bill.
Mr. LANGD ALE—As ha had introduced one of
the clauses that had been struck out felt bound to say
a few words in its defence. He thought as the clause
had been carried by the leading members on both sides
of that House there could be nothing in it to disparage
the Established Church. He would not divide the
House upon it, but he must express his great regret
that the clause had been excluded.
Mr. ASHTON YATES felt bound to protest
against the facility with which the House agreed to the
course adopted by the House of Lords in throwing out
the clause.
The amendments were then agreed to.
CHURCH DISCIPLINE BILL.
The Committee on toe Church Discipline Bill was,
on the motion of Lord JOHN RUSSELL. postponed
to Wednesday.
The Rogue Money Assessment Bill was read a third
time and passed on the motion of the LORD
ADVOCATE. '