The Sun.
London, England, 1801-06-08 00:00:00

HOUSE,OF PEERS.

- .
[The press-of temporary matter on Saturday, ,put it nut of
our power to enter so fully as we wished, into thc Dchate
in the House of Peers, on the subject of Waste Lands; we'
therefore insert, more in detail, the principal points of
Lord CAR itIN(ITOV'S Speech on that occasion; which
gives a clear elucidation of the tendency of the Bill, and
the 'natives for withdrawing it, for this Sesgion.)

BILL FOR IMPROVING THE CULTIVATION AND TN-
CLOSURE OP WASTE AND UNCULTIVATED LANDS.

Lord CAR R INGTON said, the Bill which the Se-
lea Committee had framed, under the orders of the
House, had been now some time. before their lord.
ships, whOhad witnessed the unwearied pains.„which
they had, taken to coiled information from every
quarter of the House, to remove objedions, to cor-
reCt errors, and to soften prejudices. By these means
the principle of the Bill had been in many cases mo-
derated, in others extended, and in all the Bill had
been improved ; one proviso excepted, upon which
his Lordship said; he should say a few words pre-
sently. Their Lordships had also seen the species of
opposition which it had met with, Those who by
their vote on the second reading must be understood
to have appfovedAhe principle, had nevertheless ar-
gued against that principle in every subsequent
stage. A host of the greatest legal talents in the
C(,uniry.had arranged themselves in opposition to it.
'11;e very alterations made with a view to meet their
wises, have been pleaded against it ; ,and one Noble.
and Learned Lord of great gravity and wisdom,
Who, his. Lordship said, he believed had not been
present .it any of the debates on the Bill, had thought
tit to come down on a question merely in course,
Comprornised between the parties, and in the absence
Of every one of the friends and supporters of the
Bill, to give his 'opinion of it in terms,. which, hiS
Lordship said, he Would not repeat, but which he
believed would not be sanCtioned either by the
House or the Country. And to crown all, some of
. these Noble and learned Persons have at last con.
descended to use weapons still stronger than even
their own powerful arguments, namely, delay and
procrastination. In the present state of the Session,
st must be obvious, that these means would be of
considerable avail, and that by the continuance of
them, there would scarcely be time in. the other
Mouse of Parliament (for the Friends of the Bill en-
tertained little or Ito doubt of their being able, al-
tered as the Bill was, to carry it through that
Bouse), to go through the ordinary stages of it,
much less to give it that deliberation which the
importance of the subjeet demanded. His Lord.
ship said he wasitherefore commanded by the Com.
mittee to dignify to their torships, that they should
not proceed upon the Bill for the present Session.
In .this their determination he had acquiesced, but
not precisely for the same reasons. The views
he had of the supreme importance of the Bill, would'
have made him glad to see it discussed in one
or other of its stages till the close of the Session,
but his. Lordship acquiesced in its being given up,
because a proviso, to which he had alluded, might
so Much limit the operation of the Bill, as to'ren.
der the .effeli of it less advantageous than he had
flattered himself it would have been. This proviso
Was that which gave the locumbent of the 'Parish,
the PatrOn of the Living, and the Bishop of the Dio-
cese, the right of objefting to a Commutation of
Tithes on the inclosure of Waste Lands. This NON
!beet, he contended, was giving them a complete
negative to the inclosure itself, because it, was
T radically impossible -to inclose Waste Lands, keep.
log them subjed to Tithes.

Here the Bishop of ROCHESTER rose to speak to
Order. His Lordship said, the Noble Lord was
proceeding to discuss a Clause of a Bill which he
had already told the House was about to be with.
drawn. This was highly irregular, and the more
so, as there was no question before the House.

Lord CARRINGTON rose again, and said, that at
the time when he signified that the Committee had
d:reaLd him to inform their Lordships that they
meant to pursue the Bill no further during the pre-
sent Session, he surely might be permitted to explain
the reasons which induced them to forbear wasting
their strength inefFeaually, and also those on
which the different opinion he entertained as to
the effe& of a particular Clauo, from the Com-
mittee—[.4 general Cry of Go on, Go on]—Be-
sides, not being in the habit of addressing their Lord-
ships often, to be interruptedby so great a person as
the Right Reverend Prelate, tended to embarrass.
him.—Then resuming his former argument, his
Lordship said, the House knew that there were very
few instances of open fields, arable, being inclosed
without a Commutation of Tithes. He recolleaed
one instance, and that was in the County of NOrill-
ampton, and the consequence was, that the parish
so inclosed had been ever since continued in grass,
to the great injury of the Incumbent, the Land-
lord, the Tenant,. and the Public. If therefore it
was found necessary to commute for Tithes, upoil
the inclosure of Open Fields, how much more or) on
Waste Lands ? When, besides the ordinary expellees
.of inclosing, dividing, and allotting, as in Open
Fields, there are those of breaking up the ground, in
many 'cases paring and burning, and draining, all
expensive works, besides additional buildings. He
contended therefore, that ' to give these three de.
scriptions of persons the power of objeaing to the
Commutation of Tithes, Was the same thing as giving
them the power of objeaing to the Inclosure. But
if any Noble Lord should think that Waste Lands
could be piofitably inclosed, Tithes remaining; his
Lordship said, he should be glad of an oppor-
tunity to discuss the subjea with that Noble Lord
in a separate debate. It was obvious, that circum-
stances might 'happen to prevent such consents as
were now required, even in cases in which the
quantum of compensation could not be objected to.
The Incumbent certainly was the least likely to ob.
jof.t., because he was -the most benefited by it ; but
it was possible that he might be too rich to mind it,
too poor to pay his part of the expence, too busy or
too idle to attend to ir, or too old to profit by it.
The', Patron was very remotely concerned in it.
He might have quarrelled with his Reaor about
Tithes, or he might dissent, as in a recent case in

the County of Suffolk, without assigning any reason
at all. The Bishop, too, might have his objedions.
A Right Reverend'Prelate might say, he did not
chose his. Clergy. 4o commute Tithes for Land ; it
had a tendency to make them secular. He.had ra-
ther they should .abide by. the provision of their
ancestors. Another Rev. Prelate might say, ..he
preferred Corn-rent ; but he saw no provision for
that in the Bill. A third Rev. Prelatemight say,
that he did not like a Partial Inclosure ; it might
he inconvenient, having some lands in the parish
tithe free, and others tithe-payable—a General In-
closure of the Parish, or none. And, for some of
these reasons urged by some of these parties, the
benefits of the Bill might be much limited and re.
duced.- To remove, therefore, this great stumbling.
block; his Lordship said, he had proposed
.that the
Bill itself should contain the specific proportion to
be allotted for Tithes, grounded upon the allowance
'which the Clergy, with their own consent, had re.
ceived for this species of land, from most of the Bills
ofinclosure which had passed of late years. Nay,
he had gone the further length of proposing, that
the Commissioners might be allowed to give them
more; 'but should be restrided from giving them
less. He appealed, therefore; to their 'Lordships,
whether those were the best friends of the Church,
who wished to obstruct these Inclosures, or those
who were desirous Of doing the Clergy, justice, in
the fullelt, broadest, and amplest manner, by giv.
ing them an-increased income arising out of the-in-
creased prosperity of the Country ? But was it, his
Lordship asked, to be said, that the Clergy, having
an abstrad right to Tithe, should keep that right,
as it were, in abeyance, useless to themselves, and
at the same time render useless all the larger con-
current rights Of the proprietors ? Why should this
abstrad right be treated in a manner-different from
other ;rights ? The contingent right to Tithes was
guarded by the same sandion, in the eqUal voß*,
given to the Incumbent to assent to or dissent froin
the Inclosure ; and in every case the fair measure of
compensation for the right, whether the party cen-
sented to it, or did not consent, was estimated ac-
cording to the same rules, and determined by the
same discretion, as the right either of the 'Lord of
the Soil, or any of the Commoners. He would not,
his Lordship said, be supposed to wish to do this
right less than ample justice, or not. to hold it as
sacred as any other species of, private property.
Both were in their nature equally sacred, and he
saw no reason to make any distindion between theM.
—But whatever became of the Question, or of the
present Bill, his Lordship said he must again submit
to the House the necessity of taking some effedual
measures 'upon the, subjed 6f Waste Lands, and
without affording the means for a Commutation of
Tithes, no measure could be effedual. Their Lard-
ships knew by 'the Papers on
,the Table, that the
quantity of Corn imported in the year ending the
sth of October last, was one million eight hundred
thousand guaiters, at an expence of not less, but
probably much more, than Seven Millions sterling ;
and that in the present year, they might have to
pay the same sum for a smaller quantity of Corn,
or a larger sum for an equal quantity, if by any
means they could procure it ; with this difference,
that part of the expence this year must probably be
paid out of the Reiterate, and be made, 'good next
year by a Loan and Taxes. Their Lordships must
all be sensible, that if this fourteen or fifteen mil-
lions, paid in two years for Corn, had been giada_
ally in a course of years employed in cultivating the
Waste Lands of the Kingdom, that the produce of.
such Waste Lands, upon the most reduced supposi.
tion, would have been annually arid for ever equal
to the present annual Importation. This, surely,
was a powerful argument for not delaying the mea.
sures, whatever they might be, for that purpose.
The present Was precisely the moment for the busi-
. ness.. They were still smarting under the effeds of
the late Scarcity, though, by the blessing of Provi.
dance, they might expeCt complete relief in the alt.
proaehing harvest. It was now therefore the mo.
ment to provide, , as far as human means could pro.
vide, against the. effeds of a future scanty harvest,
by putting these Waste Lends into a state of"vigor.
ous cultivation. What had been the cause by which
they had been enabled ,to surmount the late difficul-
ties ? The complete superiority on the seas,. Ob.
• tained by those brilliant exploits which had raised
• out naval.charader to so great a height„ and the
possession of the commerce of the whole world.—
. But who could venture 'to say that these favourable
Circumstances would continue,, when .we might
chance to have another failure df crop ? And if we
should ever lose the mastery of the seas, or the
commerce of the world, we might either not be able
to get the corn at all, or we might get it at the cx.
pence of all the specie of the Country. These, his.
Lordship said, were momentous considerations. The
responsibility lay on the
_Government of the Coon.
try : they could not be neuter on such' a point. No
measure for the Inclosure of Waste Lands could pass,
in Parliament without their alive co-operation
and he hoped the interval before they met again,
would be spent,. either in. the improverneut of 'the
plan now on the Table, or in the suggestion of some
other of greater ,etlicacy. They would not, he
truss d, sit still with their hands before them, un.
mindful of a business, on the success of which de-
pends the subsistence of the People, and safety of
the Country.

Lord CARRINOTON then moved to adjourn the
further consideration of the Bill for two months;
which was carried; and the Bill is accordingly de.
(erred for this Session.

611IP NEWS.

ovelt JuSE 4.

• 'Passed by for London—the Neptunus, Natnens, from Sa-
vannah ; and Blare, Munnings, trom NeW-York.

roots, Sure 5.

Arrived—the Unity, Massey, and WiPiarn and Mary,
Iloynes, from Southampton; Gescitwithikke4,
,Schnick,
from Stettin ; Palladium, Yule, from Sunderland ; 4u4 Ad-
venture, Demur, from Oporto.
Sailed—the Charlotte,, Manelaws, for Portsmouth-; Hec-
tor, Sparrow; for'Faversham ; and Vrol,v Anna Maria, Kunst,
Hantbro'.
•

GRAVESEND, TUNE 4.

Passed by—the:Hannah,Hopkins, from 'Boston ; Johannes,
Meyer, from Stettin-; .Anna Johanna, —, from Dantzic ;
Eliza, Noble, from New-York ; Amity, Rutchinson ; Eli-
za, Wilder, and. the William, from Vharlestown.
Sailed=-the Geude Warwagting, —, for Lisbon; And
Herrster, --, for Dieppe.
JUNE 5. Passed by—the Maria Dumth —, from Pil-
lau ; Brawn Horse, ---, and Ceres, Waller, from Dant-
zic.

Sailed—the Twe Gebroders, Vries, forDieppe.