The Sun.
London, England, 1808-06-09 00:00:00

CURATES' BILL.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved
the Order of the Day for a Committee on the Cu-
rates' Bill,

On the question that the Speaker do leave the
Chair,
Mr. WESTERN objeeed to the measure, as calcu-
lated to interfere without any cause with the lixa-
perty of the Church, which was as well entitled! to
the proteclion of the law as any other, and likely to
affect the independence of the Church,_ as well as to
countenance unfounded clamours against beneficed
Clergymen.
Mr. W. WYNNE supported the general principle
of the Bill, inasmuch as it went to provide an tide-.
quate income for the resident officiating Clergyman,
Residence was the duty of the Reolor, and it was
due to the parish, that the officiating Clergyman
should have a sufficient provision to enable him to
live as a Gentleman. If the Re&or accept a second
benefice, it could not be a hardship upon him to
make a proper allowance to the Curate who dis-
charges the duty in the parish in which he does not
reside.

Mr. CIIIIEVEY contended, that the Bill .before the
House was a dire& violation of property, which was
now for the first time to be ailed upon. He had no
objeetion to increase the allowance madelo.Corates.
twelve years ago in proportion to the alteration of the
value of money and the rise of times since, and con-
tended that any allowance over that proportion was
nothing less than a downright robbery. This At~}
was a confiscation of Rectorial property, whilst the
authors of the measure would not dare to touch the
Lay Impropriators or the Bishops. The University
of Ceimbridg,e, the University of Oxtbrd, and the
Clergy of the City of London, were against the mea-
sure ; whilst no Petition on the part of the Curates
had been presented in favour of the Bill. This mea-
sure was only supported by Societies in fart hostile
to the established Church, the Foreign Bible, Society,
the dealers in Missionaries, and the Suppression of
Vice Society.
Mr. BURTON was not a member of any of theite
reprobated Societies, but a firm supporter of the'et-
tablished Church, and yet was a friend to the prin-
ciple of this Bill, though there were some clauses of
it which he hoped would undergo modification. He
was surprised to hear Gentlemen assert that this Bill
Was a violation of the property of the Church, and
argued ably, and at some length, to she.v, by refer-
ence to the history of this Country, that it was the
praaice of the Legislature to regulate from time to
time the salaries of Curates and the incomes of Vi-
cars: Gentlemen who talked of the case of the
Rectors seemed to forget that ther.e was another par-
ty, for whom, and for whom alone, both Rectors
and Reetories were created, the parishioners.
Mr. LUSHINGTON could not agree with his Hon.
Friend (Mr. Creevey) that this Bill was a violation
of property. To hear the arguments against this
Rill, one would suppose that the property of sthe-
Clergy rested upon the same Krounds 34 private pro.. •
perty. Upon the abstract principle, their property
was equally entitled to protection ; but they had du- •
ties to perform, and if they did not petfortn them,
the Clergymen who did, ought, if possihle, to be
adequately provided for. He had a long connection
with the University of Oxford, and he knew tleit
no considerable objection to this Bill existed there,
though there were some provisions in it which were
not approvid of there, and which be hoped would
be modified in the Committee.

Mr. WILLIAM 411111TH, though lrnt a member of
the Church of England, was a friend to this Bill,
and, thought that no nteaiure of this kind, which he
had known, was more likely to' interfere wilt the in-
terests of the Sectatists. He Contended that the
Revenues of the Clergy were given in tTustfor the
performance of their clerical duties. Auy obje6tion
he felt to the measure arose from the powers to be,
given to. the Bishops, which would endanger the in-
dependence of the Chureh.

' Lord MILTON thought they ought to be cautious
of interfering with Church property, but yet was
of opinion that that ropefty resembled not a free*
hold so much as a species of copyliold, to which
certain services were annexed, and which would 'be
forfeited for non-performance of those services. He
objected to the powers to be given to Bishops, who
were dependent upon the Crown,. because they
would by theie powers. have tire Clergy dependent
upon them, whilst the parishioners would again•be
influenced by them.
Mr. WARD said he should riot then oppose the'
Bill, but that he wished a clause had been intro-
duced into the Bill, reqUiring the Rectors to ap-
point Curates who understood the nature of their
avocation, and possessed merit, as he had known an
instance of a' Methodist Preacher who had origin-
ally been a bricklayer's labourer set up in opposition
to the established Minister, and triumph in the ma-
jority. Ire brought to hear him.
Sir 'FRANCIS BURDIITT objeaed to the Bill, as an
uncalled for interference of the Legislature with the
property of the Church. He had another objection
to the Bill, .because It afforded no remedy • fie the
grievances which it pointed,out. It was unwise in
the Legislature to satglion the opinion, Iliat wealth
was necessary, to renler Clergymen respeetable,
when, on the contrary, they should att upon the
principle of making honourable poverty respeetable.

It was the existence of poorer orders Ciergyme n
whowent amongst the people, andiofficiated from
zeal, not fbr profit, that the Catholic. Religion had
taken such root in the countries where it was esta-
blished. From the little he had observed, they were
not the rich Clergymen that were most respected.
This Bill did not provide for the better performance
of the duties of Clergy-men than at present, and the
grievance which it pointed out, arose from the neg-
lea of the Bishop in admitting improper persons into
the Choral. But why were not Bishops themselves
compelled to reside on their Secs, as their attention
to their pastoral duties was indispensable to the wel-
fare of the Chnrch ?—He recommended to the Gen-
tlemen who supported this Bill to pause before they
acceded to its interference with the Church property;
the next step would be to interfere with Lay Pro-

prietors.
Mr. MANNERS SUTTON expressed his surprise at
the statement of the Honourable Baronet, rt.speCting
the negleet of Bishops, in admitting improper per-
sons into the'Church. There was no point in which
so much improvement had taken place respeding
the Church, even within the last twenty years, as in
the arrangements made ter the examination of per-
sons, Candidates for Holy Orders, in order to secure
the admission of proper persons.
_ _ _ _

Mr. WILBERPOK6B considered it as the first re-
commendation of this Bill, that it would tend to
provide adequately for persons at present suffering
the extreme of poverty. The Honourable Gentle-
man then advanced a variety of other arguments in
support of the measure. He argued from former
precedents, that there would be neither undue in-
fluence on the part of the Bishops, in carrying this
Bill into effect, nor undue submission on the
part of the Clergy ; as a decided friend to the
Church of England, he was a decided friend to this
Bill.

Mr, WINDHAM. deprecated the praaice of the
last Speaker, in imputing the :conduct pursued by
those who were in opposition to his sentiments to
total Ignorance, or total inditlerence with respeCt to
the interests of the Church A spirit of charity to-
wards Roman Catholics, or other Sects, was by no
means a mark of ignorance or indifference with re-
aped to the superior value of Protestantism. The
present Bill was calculated to do much injury, and
little good. It was called for by no public feeling.
The evils which the Bill went to remedy, it real,
must have been of long standing : yet, strange to.
tell, they were now, fur the tint time, complained
of. The Bill would set the Curate against the
Reaor,. and. the Rector against the Curate, and
would place the &shop in the invidious situation of
being umpire between both. it went to alter the
condition and property of the families of the Reaors
and Curates. The sacredness of Church pro-
perty was invalidated by every additional instance
of legislative interference, though certainly the
Legislature had a right to exercise such inter-
ference. The Church 'was more in dinier from
the doarines that accompanied this Bill, than
from the Pope and the College of Cardinals,
not dispersed and wandering, as be was sorry
they were now, but in the plentitude of their power.
The conduit of some Gentlemen in tins case re-
minded him of what Swift said in hii Letter to
the Bishop of •Sarum; that he Old not admire that
sagacity that smelled nut Popery at five hui.Jred
miles distance, and did not discover ransticisni under
its •
nose.

Mr. WILBRaPORCE explained. •
Mr. M. A. TAYLOR contended that the evil ex-
isted, and that remedy was called for. There was
not .a sufficiency of resident Clergy to do the duties
of the Church. The income of the Curates did not
keep pace with those .of the Reaor, nor with the
circumstances of the times. Hence, one Curate
Was often obliged to serve two or three parishes;
and thus baptisms and 'burials 'stand over till cer-
tain fixed days. Church property was given on
the condition of performing the duties of the
•Chumb, and the Country load a right to provide.
for the performance of those duties out of that pro-
perty. .In a village near his residence,' the duties
.of the Church had not been performed by a Clergy
man for three years. The con,equence was; that
a Blacksmith came to him for a licence to perform
.the duty (a laugk,)
The CHANCRLLOR of the EXCHEQUER contended,
that there ',vas an
,urgent necessity for the Bill, and
that the provisions contained in it were in stria
conformity with the principles and usage of our
ancestors. The Bill-was most favourable to the in-
terests of the Church and of Religion, and most un-
favourable to Sedaristn. He vindicated the exem-
plary conduct of the' Right Rev. Prelate who had
been alluded to, (the Archbishop of York), in the
exercise of his patronage. He allowed that some
provision for the poorer Curates would still be
wanted; and he, for one, should be ready to enter-
tain
.any proposition that may be brought forward to
that effect. He thought it a great dele& in the
original institution of lay impropriations that provi-
siun was not made under the controul of the Bishops
for the performances of the religious duty. But this
could not be mended by interfering with lay lin-
propriations -at the present time. He proposed to
'withdraw the motion immediately before the House,
with a view to -move an'instrudion to the Commit-
tee to extend the provisions of the Bill to Ireland.
Sir JOHN NeWPORT- gave his hearty concurrence
to the Bill, as a general measure. The L4slature
was intitled to make.provision frOm therevenue
the bigher.order of livings, in the performance of
the duties of religion, having but two years since
relieved the holders of these livings from the penal-
ties of non-residence.

The Camiceu.on of the EXCHEQUER, and Sir
Lim NEWPORT, mutually explained.
The instruction moved by the CHANCELLOR of the
EXCHEQUER wag then agreed to.
On the question for the SPEAKER'S leaving the
Chair,

Lord PeRcHESTER stated, that neither the men.
'sure before the house nor-any other was called far, ,
and went over the same grounds with Mr. Wind-
ham in opposition ,to it.

Mr. TYAWIIIT Jousts wished the Bill to go into a
Committee, that it may be put in the most perfect
form.

Sir C. PRICP, was fearful the measure might pro-
duce a schism between the Incumbent and the
Curate, and could not therefore but be adverse to tha
principle °film Bill ; should it however go into a
Committee, he hoped it 'might be fully and &liner-,
eiteV ciAsuestxl,

The question was then anxiously tailed flit; ana
the House divided on the question that the Speaker
do now *aye the Chair,
.251:. Ayes r;t---Noes 27.

The House then resolved itself into a Committee
on the Bill; iiilt*rt it was moved by the CHANCELLOR
of the EXCHULUER, that Ireland be included In the
operation tifi'tfie Bill.
This Clause was warmly opposed by Mr:Stretidan,
Sir J. Newport, Lord Milton, Mr. Tierney, &c.
who contended that as far as the Clergy of Ireland
were concerned, a separate Bill should be brought
forward, as the circumstances respeaing the Clergy
in the two Kingdoms were in many respe6ts mate-
rially different.' . .
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUEi,"Sir AR'
THUR WELLESLEY, &c. argued in tavour of the
Clause ; when the House divided :

Ayes . . . If
Noes . . IS
The Committee next proceeded to discuss the
other clauses, which called forth a variety of obser-
vations 'and amendments from Lord Milton, Lord
Porchester; Mr:Tierney, and Mr. W. Wynne, on
the one sidtili and from the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer; Wei Attorney-General, on the other.i—•
After which the House adjourned.

GO7TENBURGH MAIL. ,

Gorman;itort, MAY 30.—Some persons striVect
here to-day from Hainburgh, which they left 00 the
14th instant, and state, that.the last English letteM
Which were brought thither from Heliaolarni,rwore
not only seized, but the persons to whom they:nem
addressed arrested, and the bearers of thorn banged.,
All intercourse with England and Sweden was h'
bidden, upon, pain ofdeat!). • ,
ir
The English Expedition, commanded Py
JOHN Moods, still lies in our harbour, waiting or:
des from England.
A fete, days since the Tribune Frigate sailed froln
hence Convoy for the Baltic, three of whic4
were takenLby the Danish Gun-boats, near the
Sound. ,
By adtr" frotb Xonigiburgh, received lot'
we Irani t tat the whole Prussian army nujrlY,
banded, and that the soldiers have retired their
homes;' not more than 5001) remain of alio.
. once great and nourishing force.
r STOCKHOLM, MAY 25,—His recrive4
yesterday the tolluwing, Rerort from ,14Ovilere'
Baron ANCKARWARD, touching the transaCtionsi",,
the Island of Gothland ; •

REPORT.
" I received this moment by Assessor DOBlllgo 2
Report from Admiral Baron CHDRRSittord, 'bat your •
Majesty's Fleet, consisting of. thrve Sail of the Pneo
two Frigates,.two armed Brigs, the Yacht Foriuna*
and severaPl\-ansports, dropped anchor, on the f 411 k.
instant, u SA'6ll,seek Road, and that the same o'o'
lug :he Swi6ll- troops, infantry end artillery, were
disembarked On the following day, the istl). 0"
rived in Wid.ley, a Swedish flag of Truce, with 6
he
annexed Articles of Capitulation, which were jeer
the i (Mi. The Swedish Van Guard, compdieun °
chasseuri, entered the town the 17th, as the AT
slim troops had already marched to Slit°.
Chief of Brigade, Lieutenant•Colonet Baron 1141.
WOOD, marched with the main body to Slat', oil
count ot the Russians having, Contrary to the Cr
paulation, spiked several guns,'spoiled a large quart''
City of gunpowder, and nut paid the debts waich
they had bound-. themselves to' discharge".. • ins
18th, Admiral Baron CEMRSTROM intended IQ-
weigh anchor and proceed to Slim, in order to pro'
wail on Admiral BODISKO to fulfil tile terms of.lo
.••
Capitulation.
I
. Assessor Dussit's Report to me, is clat—
MO
18th instant."

ARTICLES kiiATIVE TO TIE EVACUATION 'Of *lll

IMF OF GOTHLANP.

• I. Ifisjokfrerial Russian majesty's troops are 1°
evacuate-the Island
.within two (14 4 and to deli° I
to his Swedish Majesty's troops all emit 4111111 L::
nition, and artillery which they brought wiith`thea:"
or took in the Island. The y• are to give b
the
lear
of honour, that theY will not serve beinre
expira!ion of a twelvemonth, against 'the s.lllg °
Sweden or his Allies. • - •
• 11. .All eitbf:ts and magazines, of whatever ram"
or description, which belong to the Ktttg ut 64:ed`';fri,
and walk!) have been cousnmed by trio
troops, shall be paid for, and the value of all requi.
sitiontivhieh. May 'have been enforced,- shall :?1,6
made good,. .
l'lmAnssiar; troops are to take with •11101)
all their effiAs and property, and to march r°
Slito ; they fife there to embark on board the SAL",°,
transj)orts.thtft brought them thither; they 6'1;1"
be furnished with a passport, iu order that tl)4r
may be able to return unmolested to ilussivil,
Prusilati harbours ; and should they stand in l'ee
of provisions, they shall be supplied with theca
on making payment for the satne.—The 446'11
May, 1808. •

- .
RUDOLPH CEDERSTROM.
. RODI6KO, Rear-AC101.•80'e-g
.•-
STOCKHOLM, MAT Ro)al MajtolY bas
received a Report from' General Baron Aami4l'"n ,-ti
Commander in Chief of the Western Arm), Lia,.,
Head-quarters Holtuedat, the' 20th instant, o°l'lls
that the ISt brigade of the right wing Were attitcli
on the 1-eth inst. by the Eneiny, tar soPeri°l.ti
number,. itit . that nevertheless the Danish
were repulvd. with considerable loss,' and 10;
OUT Army...fp—Norway still maintatini. ,its 1010]
position. -
STocuicitt.si, MAY 2.s.—His Royal MaJestY: rie: .
ceived yesterday the following Report trim ~
) . •
Marshal Count KuNgsrolt, dated Hoati-iludr
May 12. 1808. of
s
-The Russian troops who -were made prism?er
war in the Isle of Gothland consisted of Orfict:riss
78 Non-commissioned Odicers,, egsi -rank aifti
and 64 artillerymen:- ,
Lei s,

•.-, . • -
tuuate operations of
mos'r HUMBLE REPORT• - '
sent by
"My last was of the Bth iust—and was ":
Capt. DUN ICICR ; it contained an a, COUlit Of t. e 0;1
Brigade, Co.unel SANtiELS,
until • the said day : hill, e which lime Or Chlel,„,t)
your Majesty's Army t►~ Fillial,
tactaneut g Oh: ,sth hriga.:e, wllich, under the fora;
maud °__t 1-01t.-Colonel FAHLANDI4IIii tiad b'
,;.
sent to Karsaivki, andl w own nad air4..ad , Jecsil ,
ihil.g to. my (la itePoit, tailue cousioci..ol.- Do'?
ji
has made prisoners of war, in Lbv old clii Cu/LIU '
has r, pt►rtrtl, tnai a IA-