The Sun.
London, England, 1863-09-23 00:00:00

THE AMERICAN WAR.

A crowded meeting was held on Monday night in the
Music-hall at Leeds, in support of the cause of emancipa-
tion
in America, and the neutral policy of the British Go-
vernm, mit. The presence of Mr. Forster, M.P. (who pres-
sided), and of the Rev. W. H. Charming, from the United
States, :imparted an additional interest to the proceedings,
which were of the most unanimous and enthusiastic charac-
ter. There were also present on the platform the Rev. G.
W. Conder, Rev. John Adcock, Rev. George Mather, Dr.
Greenhow, Mr. John J ewitt, Mr. Joseph Lupton, Mr. T.
B. Baines, Mr. Alderman Carter, Mr. Councillor Tatham,
Mr. Councillor Nichols, Mr. W. Brown, Mr. Thompson,
:Mr. J. W. Smith, Mr. Harvey, Mr. Da'id Green, Mr. J.
Andrew, and many other friends of the slave.
Mr. J. LUPTON, in proposing that Mr. Forster should
occupy the chair, stated that but for another engagement
the Mayor would have been present and occupied that posi-
tion. (Applause.)
Mr. W. BROWN seconded the resolution, which was car.
fled with acclamation.
The CHAIRMAN
-was received with enthusiastic cheering,
and after a few introductory remarks referring to the mis-
understanding which existed upon the question of the pre-
-B,3nt struggle, and of the fear that another evil might be
added to it leading to a difference between England and
America, he said—Just allow me to say one or two words
upon this misunderstanding in both countries. First, as
regards ourselves. I think that a great deal of ill-feeling
—which I am sorry to see—exists in America, arising from
a. consciousness, and in some measure a right-founded con-
sciousness, on their part, that we misconceive this great
struggle in its very principle and in its foundation, and
that we have, if I may so speak, underrated it. (Hear,
hear.) Ido not mean that we underrate it in point
of the numbers engaged in it. We are quite im-
pressed with the tremendous extent on which the war

is carried on. In point of numbers it is greater than
almost any other civil war in any age. (Hear, hear.) We
are aware also of the immense sufferings which it has caused
in America, and which it has caused also in our own coun-
try, and we are aware of the tremendous loss of life and
money; but many of us, I regret to say, are not alive to the
tremendous importance of the principle which is at stake,
which is, if I may put it in just one sentence, simply this,
whether upon the continent of America the principle of
slavery or the principle of freedom shall predominate.
(Cheers.) Now, look back at history, and can you put your
finger upon any war that was ever carried on in which a
greater question was at stake than that? (Cheers.) Many
persons say, "It is no use going to hear you; you are a
strong Federalist." In answer to that I may say that I am
not in every sense a Federalist. (Hear, heNr.) lam not
blind to the faults of the north. (Hear.) lam not blind to
the, inconsistency with which this war has been carried on,
nor am I blind to the words which some of the statesmen
sad many of the papers have used tom ards this country.
(Hear.) But I still remember this, that they are, many of
them, it is true, quite unconsciously, yet that they are,
fighting—and cannot help fighting the battla for freedom—
against the Southern Confederacy, who, avowedly and de-
terminedly, and without any attempt at concealment, are
lighting the battle of slavery. They tell me lam fanatical
upon this question. Ido not feel that I owe an apology
to an English audience for being fanatical on the ques-

ton of slavery. (Hear, hear.) -As to whether there
shall be liberty in this world is a question upon which no
man can be fanatical. (Hear.) Of all political questions which
can be brought forward—l will saynothing of philanthropic
considerations—this question of freedom from slavery is the
most important. (Cheers.) There are men—l confess it fills
one with wonder and surprise—men who have done good
service to the Liberal cause in past times, who have fought
hard for that cause, yet who profess that it is fanaticism to
care whether slavery shall or shall not rule over the conti-
nent of America. They go so far as to say that it is possible
that there can be political liberty where there is domestic
slavery. Now, I say that is a great mistake. (Cheers.) If
men would learn the very alphabet of freedom they would
ice that wherever there is domestic slavery, wherever the
first political right—a right even above and beyond all po-
litics—the right of man to the disposal of his own body and
the government of his own soul—(cheers)—where that is
denied by the law, political liberty is not safe. (Cheers.) It
it be possessed by the master class, that class cannot keep it
in safety, and the very words "political liberty" are a farce
and ta delusion. (Cheers.) History proves that it was because
this old Republicans of Rowe allowed themselves to be cor

rapted into domestic slavery that the master class lost their
own liberty—(hear)—and we find that in the South, where
Eta slaveholder had power—to use Carlyle's expression—to
hire their negro fellow-countrymen for life—not morely hir-
ing their labour, but hiring the chastity of the women and
the souls and brains of the men—that is to do what they
Would with that honour, mind, brain, and soul—when they
did that to one class they at the same time deprived their
white fellow-citizens of the freedom of speech, the freedom
of the press, and almost of the freedom of thou 4ht. (Cheers.)

There is no more true fact than this, and I do not care if I

am again charged with fanaticism for repeating it, that if
you look at this question calmly and philosophically, you
will find that when the system of domestic slavery is once
admitted in any social fabric whatever, it so fastens itself
upon its framework that it is utterly impossible that it can
live in peace with Runless it masters it. (Hear, hear.) It
must master it, or it will go to war with it, and strive to
break it up. (Hear, hear.) That was the case in America.
Three years ago I looked forward to the future of the
United Stafes with fear and trembling. I did not know
what punishment God would inflict upon them for having
connived at this sin of slavery, (Hear, hear.) Every one
saw that that slave-power had been first stealthily and then
openly endeavoured to master the Union, and to use every

power in the Union for the extension of slavery; that it

hung upon the balance whether the great Republic of Ame-
rica was to be a great Power, for the spread of freedom, as
we in England had hoped, or for the spread of slavery
and its extension and perpetuation throughout the world,
whether the whites of America themselves would not lose
their freedom in selling themselves to the slaveholders of

the South. (Applause.) The freemen of the North took
fright ; they found out what was going on. They said,
" This is no mere negro question, it is no mere philan •
thropic question" and it would have been well for them and
for their country if they had felt more strongly the philan-
thropic part of the question, and the just claims of the
negro ; but at least they saw the danger to their country,
and said, " We will not allow this slave-power to go on in-
creasing ; we will make head against it, we will take care
that it does not rule us." (Cheers.) What followed ? The
slaveholders, finding that they could no longer wield the
American commonwealth to support the system of slavery,
said, " We will break up and destroy the Union, and set up
a Confederacy of our own." The men of the North, the
patriots of the Union, said, " We will not submit to that ;"
and we, many of us in England, who were utterly reckless
of money or life when we thought Russia merely threatened
to stop the communication with our Eastern possessions—
who were still more reckless of money and life to preserve
our empire in India—when we know that there is scarcely
one of us in this country, of any party, who would not, if it
came to the dire alternative, use every power he possessed
to keep Ireland as a sister country in union with England
—yet we who know that we have this patriotic feeling and
would undergo the greatest sacrifices before we would allow
our country to be cut to pieces or diminished, or to become
a weak Power rather than a strong Power—we complained
of the North Americans and said to them, "You have

entered upon a wicked war," because they would not
allow the slaveholders of the South, in order to perpetuate
and extend slavery, to break up their country, and make
it a divided, a weak, and almost powerless country instead
of a great and powerful one. (Loud cheers.) I say this,
that I will give many of those who argue thus the credit
that if the same result or anything like it was upon the
issue in England they would be as foremost in desiring
to prevent their country from being destroyed as the most
ardent and fierce Northerner at this moment. (Hear, hear.)
That is the way in which this dreadful war has come to
pass. I mournever that war; I lament it. I also think it
a wicked war, but I charge the wickedness upon those who
began the war in the worst of all possible causes. (Cheers.)
1 am willing to allow that even with them—tor a strange
thing is human nature—some of them may have forced
themselves into the belief that they were in a good cause.
I don't pretend to deny the valour of the men of the South ;
I will not deny that they have shown many fine qualities
I will go even
in this war, further, and say that it is very
difficult for men, even in a bad cause, to have submitted to
the sacrifices and self-denial which many
men in the South
have undergone, without coming out of it purified and better
than when they Went in. But while that is the case, I
cannot forget upon which side the right is. (Hear, hear.)
Though I lament more than I can speak the suffering which
is the result of this war, and the crimes which have been
committed on both sides, from the presence of an influential
American I cannot but say it would be well if the public
opinion cf America were raised more strongly against the
atrocities committed in the Northern States as well as in
the Southern. (Hear, hear.) I am well aware that in a
tremendous crisis like this there are strong temptationsamd
that even Christian and patriotic people find it difficult to
prevent war being Carried on other than with that ferocity
which, more or leas always accompanies war ; still, great
as are the temptations, Christians must not forget their
duty. Nevertheless,
I say, much as we lament this war,
its cuff rings and crimes, I do rejoice at what we may now
hope will be the result of it. (Applause.) After many
changes up and down—after it had appeared as if this
slave power would be via.krions and triumphant, and that
we should, in this 19th century, see successful the attempt
to raise a great new fabric, whose corner stone was slavery
—(and such an attempt to retard the course of progress has
not been attempted since Julian attempted to stop the
progress of Christianity)—at last a change has come. Look
for a moment at what would have been the case if the slave
power had succeeded, and we had been left to Mr. Glad-
stone's hope, that in its success would be its failure. I be-
lieve there would eventually have been a failure if the South
had been triumphant. They would have raised against them
the pubiic opinion of the world, and freedom would have
been triumphant eventually, because there is a God that
rules the world and not a devil. (Loud cheers.) But ter-
rible as is now the contest it would then have been even
more terrible, for the slave power would have been stronger,
and now that the contest has come, I rejoice that we can
foresee this result, that, whatever else comes out of it—
whether a restored union, which does not now see= irspos-

Bible, or a subordinate, hemmed up, weak, slave-holding
republic in the cotton States, this, at least, is certain—the
dream of the slaveholders of a slave empire has disappeared,
and out of the war we shall get this compensation, that on
the continent of America the power and principles of free-
dom will rule, and not the power and principles of slavery.
I think it just arises from our losing sight of the question
at issue that we have treated this American struggle in a
manner which has not unnaturally excited ill feeling in that
country, and I think the more we can hear from intelligent
Americans who understand our country as well as their own,
and who can tell us facts upon this American struggle, the
more we shall be able to get to a good understanding of it,
and therefore to remove that ill-feeling. (Hear.) I have
now, what I scarcely ever had before, the opportunity of
speaking to an American, and Mr. Channing must allow me
to say a word or two to him, and through him to some of
his countrymen. It may be that Englishmen do not quite
understand the feeling of the Americans, and I think in
America also there is some misconception and misunderstand-
ing of the action of England. There is a feeling in America if
we may judge by the papers and the statements of the leading
men, that England has done them a wrong, an actual and
positive wrong, which it is their business, almost their duty,
to revenge when they have the opportunity. I say that is not
the case. I dont mean that there have not been men in Eng-
land who have taken the side of the South. There have been
many, especially in what are called the upper classes, but,
after all, it is not for the speeches of men, even if they have
" hon." or " noble" stuck before their names, that the coun-
try must be responsible, nor is it for writing in newspapers
we must be held responsible. Mr. Channing would not
like me to make him or his country responsible for the writ-
ing of the New York Herald. (Laughter.) I don't compare
the liew York Herald to the Times or Morning Herald—
but I say the Americans should not make us responsible for
anything written in the Times or .Morning Herald. (Hear.)
All we ought to be judged by is the action of the country,
and as far as the action of the country is concerned—so far
as we have acted in a national capacity, the Americans have
little or no reason to find fault, and that is what they ought
to bear in mind. (Hear.) They ought also to remember,
when their hearts rankle at any expression made by many
e
been
viewed the upper classes of the country, how their cause has Fora
viewed by the great masses of the people. (Hear.)
every
wnhoublhezantak, feonr
tehveemrysidme aunt
twhehosehuaths
ta
ttitle
re beforehav have
h eheins
10, 20, and even 100 hardworking men who have taken the
side of the North and freedom. (Cheers.) And they have
done so with every temptation and every inducement brought
to bear upon them to take the other side. They have been
told by ingenious men (I will not say sent for the purpose)
that their sufferings--
and many of them have suffered
deeply—have been caused by this war, and that the war has
been caused by the action of the Federals ; and yet such
has feeling—they know what liberty
is
England when the working men
an d been
ill their ei
will
ll instinctiveit be
for
is—such
to h
eh hase theirmisled,
nedand I d
instincte saivefy iteel-
if
no forget et
that whatth e
y liberty
have
refused
will be ungenerous of America to remember anything
against England, when we can point to that large meet-
ing of the half starving working men of Manchester
in the Free Trade Hall—(cheers)—when they took the
lead in saying—" No matter what the sufferings we may
endure, no matter what the sacrifices we may have
to undergo, we will not allow our Government to de-
part from the strict principle of neutrality on behalf of the
slaveholding Confederacy." (Loud applause.) Mr. Chan-
ning and his friends must also recollect that although there
may have been expressions—talk in favour of the South,
there has been no action. There has been talk in the House
of Commons in its favour. I have felt, when in advocating
a neutral policy I stated what I conceived to be the just
claims of the North, I had not got the feeling of the House
on my side; but, on the other hand, if any ono tried to get
the House of Commons to press upon the Government to
depart from the principles of neutrality and adopt the side
of the South, the common sense of the House was proved
to be against him. (Hear, hear.) I say, therefore, to the
Americans, as wise men, you must pay little attention to
mere talk or mere writing, you must go by actions, and,
judging them, we as a nation have done nothing against
you. On the contrary, I say, to the credit of our Govern-
ment—and not merely to the credit of the leaders of the
Whig party, but aloe to the credit of the leaders of the Tory
party, and to Lord Derby especially, who in his speech
against recognition at the beginning of the Session laid
down in language which it was impossible could fail to in-
fluence his party, that any premature recognition would be
a breach of international law—it is, thanks to the action
of the leaders of both parties, that our Government
has resisted the notoriously strong pressure on the part
of Franco to depart from strict neutrality and recognise
the South—(cheers)—and, therefore, instead of complain-
ing of us, the Americans should remember that, as a nation,
we have in that matter stood their friends. We have done
no more than we ought to have done, but there is no doubt
of it that we had our powerful and influential ally pressing
us to recognise the South, and our Government refused to
do it. (Hear, hear.) lam well aware there is one matter
in which we may appear to have departed from this
neutratity, and that is in the sailing of the Alabama.
That again was not the act of the Government. I think
Earl Russell was caught napping—(laughter)—but I know
he did not wish her to go out, and has done his utmost
to prevent any others following her. I want to say a word
or two on this shipping question. Let us forget that we are
an anti-slavery meeting, and look at this purely as affect-
ing England's interests, I say that as a great Maritime
nation—the greatest commercial nation in the world—it is
to our interests more than to those of any o Irer nation that
it should not be international law that ships may sail out of
neutral ports to aid in belligerent operations such as the
Alabama has engaged in, and which those two steam rams
would do if they were not stopped. (Cheers.) I will just
put a case in point. We had a war lately with Russia, and
sent out the best fleet we coat man under the best Admi-
ral we could find, to Cronstadt. Why did we do so ? It was
not that we supposed that the fleet could batter down that
fort. We also knew that in blockading Cronstadt we could
net starve the trade of Russia, because it would only be a
question of cost, and merchandise would be sent through
Prussia by railway. But why we sent the fleet was that we
wanted to make our own trade and commerce safe through-
out the world, and we said, "We will seal up the port of
Cronstadt to prevent the Russian privateers and ships of
war going out and destroying oar commerce." If we were
to allow Alabamas to be the rule of international law for
the future, such a course would have been a pure waste of
money, because, instead of sending out privateers from
Cronstadt, Russia could send them from New York, Phila-
delphia, Hamburg, Havre, or any other port in the world.
If we allow this to become international law the result will
be that whenever we carry on war we shall be obliged to
do one of two things—either to blockade every large port of
every nation in the world, as well as the ports of the nation
with which we are at war, or else to give up our commercial
trade and sail our marine under the flags of other nations.
There never was a case in which our interests was more
clear than it is to have this stopped, and my great anxiety
is lest this war should come to an end (which I trust
it will do soon) before we have undone any harm which
may have been done by our letting the Alabama go
out; for, if we do not, depend upon it other countries
will take advantage and use our own precedent against us.
(Hear, hear.) lam glad that there is so large a meeting ;
and I hope you will do your best to strengthen the neutral
policy of the Government on this question of ships. I do
not deny that there are difficulties, which I wish Mr.
Charming to remember, and this is the great difficulty, that
we have always felt it a point of honour not to alter our
laws at the dictation of any foreign country, and although
we see that we must make this matter plain for our own
interests it is not an easy thing to do, but it is so evident
that I feel persuaded the common sense of the country will
insist upon it. (Hear.) Some people say, " What is the
difference between sending out a ship of war and sending out
cannon and muskets I"" I don't mean to say that we should
supply belligerents with muskets ; but in this case both sides
have got them. But cannon and muskets cannot be used
for belligerent purposes until they get into the hands of the
belligerents, and whatever quantity of cannon or muskets
are supplied, either to the Federals or the Confederates,
they are useless until they get on to Federal or Confederate
territory. Consequently, the one belligerent Government
has the chance of stopping, by blockading the ports of the
other belligerent, and he may say if material of war enters
it is their fault from want of power or activity to stop
it. But they cannot guard thus against ships, because
they never go into the ports, and if a neutral supplies
such ships he is taking part in the war, and the only
possible way in which the belligerents can stop this is by
going to war with the neutral. What we have to aim at,
therefore, is to prevent our subjects sending out from our
ports armaments which are to be used for belligerent pur-
poses before they go into a belligerent port. That is the
problem our lawmakers have to solve, and which the com-
mon sense and interest of the country will compel them to
solve. (Hear.) I trust you will strengthen the hands of the
Government in that matter. Efforts have been made to
secure a premature recognition ; they have been fruitless,
and very much owing to the stand which Lord Derby and
others took in the early part of the session. But another
effort is making, not so much in England as by our great
ally the Emperor. We have hitherto avoided interference
against all sorts of temptations ; don't let us be dragged
into it to serve the purposes of the French Emperor.
(Cheers.) To use homely language he has got into a mess
with his expedition to Mexico. (Hear.) lam sorry we had
anything to do with that Mexican business, but we had the
sense to draw out very quickly. (Hear.) He went on with
it, believing what was said in many quarters, that the Con-
federates were Sure to succeed. It now appears by no means
certain that the Confederates will succeed, and he finds him-
self with the new Mexican Empire on his back, does not
know how to bear the load, and wants to shove the burden
on the English people. (Laughter.) Don't let us take any
havel am
untot ear
eddy oac
ga tree
aotf
deal
but it is no business of
Eit'mperor in his Mexican
part of that burden. (Cbeenoy
of
onroe
nonsensedo c doctrine, nAe
m,
taeonr
idscuatphrpienosrkptetehtthei
respecting
ours in any way
conquest, for it is nothing else. As to the declaration of the
Mexican people that they desire a change of government, it
is only a declaration of a few of the people afraid of the
French bayonets. (Hear.) I see it stated, though I hope
we shall have an explanation from Government, that .we
have something to do with pressing the Archduke Maxi.
milieu I,3llEtmhpimerseer in Mexico,lfintheposition of becoming a French
If tut Austrian Archduke