The Sun.
London, England, 1806-05-01 00:00:00

MR.,WINDHAM's MILITARY.SYSTEM.

Mr. WiNDHAM moved the Order of the Day for
the second leading of the Bill for Repealing the Ad-
ditional Force "

Sir" JAMES P ULTENEY, in nppbsing,tilis Bill,
disclaimed any intention of opposing Hii MjeSty's
Ministers; he was anxious, on the.thntrary, that
"Ministers should always bring forward measffes to
which. he, (.o.lld give his approbation. If he were

Additional Force Aa which .'ere liable to objeaion,
• but these might be correded.. The measures nouf
proposed held out the promise ofgreater numbers of
men to the service, but of a less useful description.
In consequence of the system of inlisting Men, first
for limited, afterwards for -general servite, 0,000
men of 37,000' raised under the Army of Reserve'
Ad, had entered into the Line, and a still greater-
number ~would have entered ,if the standard estae
blished for the Line had not prevented many.of those
remaining iu •the Reserve Battalions from enter-
ing -into.it: • rip` 110 learned from the Officers
tinder him,. that much greater •numlyers would
have inlisted if Government had been willing to
take 'men_ of an interior . size. It Was true that
these Men cost a double. bounty ; but who would
hesitate at that expcnce if 20,000 additional train-
ed men were to be had .by it., Nothing could
be more 'fair than to engage men first for
limited service, and then it they .did not like
.a
military life; to &IONA, -them to return is the' sitita-
tion, they would have left. Fre mo3i
strongly of the idea of discharging men at the
of ...ticiven years in time of war; It.was true seven
General Officers of the thirteen censulte.d, were in
favOur of inlistment, fur :term of years : but, their
.
opinions went merely to the. point of tivistriten.t.
Ile.etas 'suns. that. if the _question: steere put
to them with, the condition of discharge' in the
middle of a War annexed to it, they would all have
been in "the negative: Eleven Of the thirteen: hitch,
in fad, already pronounced' against it, the _other
• two had given no decided opinion. The Generals
Who were tie adverse. to the discharge in time of 'War,
were all of the most elevated' charader. die would
only 'Mention -two • in particular, tlse late Lord
Cornwallis and Lord Grey. ,The Bight Honour'-
able Secretary Said, it was the praetiee of every
-
Nation in Europe to enlist its soldiers for a term of
years. He believed it was not the prZtiee of anyou'e
Nation. In the German dominions of His Majesty it
was not the pradice ; and he should beglad to know
if the 1.2-,000 Hanoverians now in the service of this
Country were not engaged forlife ? He would wish
to know in what Country, the engagement for limit-
ed service was.really in use. .It.was not the pra6tice
in Austria.. In France the conscripts were obliged to
serve during the War. Other Nation's had facilities of
getting men that we had not. He believed everyOf-
.ficer would agree with him, that it was easy to to
every man the degree of discipline necessary to enable
him'to go through field manccuvres. But from the
time When these ideas had been set afloat, a general
discontent prevailed in the Army.' A discharge in
time of War would be highly detrimental in a country
where trade and manufactures were so flourishing,
and wage", so high.. In such a country be allowed,
that, at all times, the Army would .not be sufficiently
attractive without the interference of political econo- .
my to equalize the condition of the soldier with
that of the otherclasses. But the great question on
this point Was, if the condition of a soldier • was
bad, why. 'should 'it be. ernbred at all. It was no
trifle to embrace bad• condition for seven years.
At the commencement of a War, great efforts were
necessary' to raise. a sufficient number of men; but
if those men, whose term of service would expire
just 'at that critical 'period, were to be discharged
without airy reference to the circumstances Of the
tithes, the supply . would be always checked by
the falling off; when 'men, whose steadiness .and
courage. May be depended upon, and .who ~v ire
seasoned to various climates, were lei loose, and in-
experienced men taken in their room, much miss
chief. must follow. One experienced soldier was
-worth three recruits. In 'remote garrisons, the
mischief of such a diScharge. would be particu-
larly felt. It was true, . We noW had the eMpire
'of the seas e but that may not always be. And
even if this power were to be for:ever uncontested,
it would riot be very agreeable duty for the seamen
to bring Lome from 'distant settlements men Os-
.chargectafter tern of 'years, when they themselves
were bound to serve tots life. He did not think it like-
ly,the men would re-enlist. The Army was exposed
to-many hardships, and when the expiration of the
term arrived, it was • probablethat those who were
entitled to the next - accommodation in the way
of di,charge., would consider these hardships, and
withdraw. The efforts which Officers always made
to retain the'men whose terms were near. expiring,
were extremely hostile_ to discipline. He was al-
together sorry that an Ad proMising so well as the
Act on thiS subjed last 'year had failed. The efforts
male on this ssibiea -last year had relaxed the dis-
cipline of the Militia: At the approach of the ex-
piration of the period, the object was always to tie
secure, of the re-engwement of the men in time, and
the Officers made sacrifices with this view. }e

w:slled_ more time had been given for Cie eossiele-
ration of the .measure. ',The 13111 which it was pro-
po :ed to 'repeal had procured vastriUmbers'on
ii-
service,-and as Many almost as was de:Jired
the Individuals so engaged entercatinappliceion
for general service. There was, one principle
expressed in tlie:Aa 'it was proposed to establish
which was uit,ehritained, though perhaps in stronger.
language, in the Bill that -Was.to be repealed. The'
Hon..Ueotleirian concluded. with intimating an in
teniidn of moving, that the further proceedings may
tie adjokirtied but hedid nut make the Motieti.
Mr. iltri/NIVARINQ was anxious to express
his opinion thus early,•before the House. would have
heard the sentiinents of these high authorities, after
which he could notpresutrie to' offer himself. He
Agreed' with the Honourable Gentleman who spoke
list, that it was better the discussion should be- put
off to a future day. He thought' that, under the
present circumstances, we ought not to.part with
any measure that went to.'add to the public strength
till we had some -adequate substitute. But he should
vote for toe repeal Of this Bill ; for the sooner'a bad
--measure was got rid of the better. The Bill went
n a-palpably, wrong foundation, in giving improper
ditties to Parish Officers, -whose charaaer was partly
civil and partly religious (a laugh.) The ditties of
Recruiting Officers did not tally with the situation' of
Churchwardens. The measure operated in the way
oftaxation to a degree which Ought never to be
tanaioned except'` in the 'Ways and Means of
the Year. The taxation under this Act fell in
proportions, the inequality of which he had wit-
nessed in- the most. oppressive forms. In the Pa•
rishes of Mary-le-bone and St. George's, the most
opulent in the capital, the rate of taxation under. this '
Bill was-in the proportion of 4d. in the pound to the.
rent. In St; Giles's it Was rs. and in the Eastern Pa-
rishes still more. It may be said pool's" rate Was, levied
in the same way ; but it should be recolle6led, that
the money-under the poors' rate was expended in the
Parish, for the benefit of the Parish, and this money
wasuot. 'As to the measure proposed to be. substi-
toted.for this Bill, he feared the Right Honourable
secretary• calculated upon men rather as he would
save them, than as • human 'nature was. The in,
ducements offered to engage men to eater for
general service, lie feared, 'would have but little
elle& The' soldiers of this Country, and those .
di•psed to embtace the condition of a soldier, did
not regulate their condii& by the moral calcula-,
'on ofanose sentimental feelings/whiai were among
the principles of the Right Hon. Secretary'S Plan.
tie felt himself bound ti) vote for the repeal of the
4dditional Wence A6t, he had-been a witness of
itsurijust.and oppressive effeas : but he was far front
thinking that the measure propdsed ought to be its
substitute.

Cii/V.AEM had given way with satisfaaion
to-the lion. ,General.- When the House had been ,
denied the light of the opinions of the General Ofh,
. ctrs alrcady colleEted, it
.was some consolation that
there were in, its own body some high authorities;
f•Otrn which it might still derive'thenrstinformation.
He was pleased that the authority of the fion:Gene7
rat was favourable to the sentiments he had expressed.
"he HOn. Gentleman behind him, though he con-
aerutiod the Bill, was more strongly averse to the
Measure proposed in succession to it. He allowed
Shat the operation of the Bill was in many instances
hard,but tnendments might have been made to-remove
the hardships complained of; and those ampndmenti
might be matter for consideration. He agreed, how-
:ever, that the general principle, rather than the de.;.
Lail, was to be considered in the present instance.
oB.served that the Gentlemen 'at the other side
.4eard. with complacency that this was not the time
for discussing the general question, and that every
point, , except those relating to the particular ques-
tion, ought to be- reserVed. The condull.of the Hon.
Gentlemen opposite was in favour of the proceeding
be meant to propose. For if the Hon. Gentlemen
were really of opinion that the At in`question ought
not to be suffered to remain one day unrepealecf,
why did they remain days and weeks in office
without- proposing any measures to that died
'When at length the Hon. Secretary unfolded his
views in a very able speech Of four hours, it ap'-
Peared that all the advantages he proposed were in
.distant prosped, The Bill now before the House
required us to tread bark the steps of our ancestors,
and to make compulsory .training a part of the law
Of the Country. He had asked whether, in any
Country, • it was the custom to enlist for term of
years; and to this no satisfactory answer had been re-
turned. If it Should be necessary to call forth any
aeneral exertion (he did not- mean the necessity aris-
ing from invasion, but the common emergency aris-
ing necessarily from the comniencement of a wat,
the proper season for offensive decisive operations),
what resource, wonld-now remain ? The only way
in which the force raised for limited
-service could
be
useful in this view was by liberating the disposable
force, and placing it entirely at the disposal of GO--
verninent for offensive, purposes. With respect to
the levy en masse, all the objection to it Was not
only this general power of calling out every one to
whom the provisions of the Bill applied, but what
Was of more importance, that this principle might
be applied arbitrarily. It was not the general powers
of the prerogative that were called in question, but
that the selection was not sufficiently guarded against
the arbitrary Oppression of indiViduals. This
deration of the principle had been given to the Levy
en masse At when its influence had been mitigated
by the lot, by an option•olother service, With the
'penalty of a flue, and bX other modifications under
which the compulsion operates more locally. Having
been thus modified, it was enforced in its lenient
form. If the object had been to get rid of the eom-
pulsiOn,,he could' Understand it : but .to adopt.that
principle, and to enforce it in a niore harsh and a
more dired way, to procure an inferior service, was
what could not be easily reconciled. When the
Right 'Hod. Secretary had stated among the causes
of tepeal the grievances occasioned by this Aid, and
the quantity of force thd machine lost in its fridion,
'he geemed to say that the principle of compulsion,
whenever used in this free Country, ought tube used
with all the Mitigation of which it was capable, and
without violating the feelings of those to whom its
'operation extended. This tint tr ldin suggested to
every
one the question, What is to °become of the
illilitia ? Consistently with the Right Hon. Gentle-
m en's plan, the inference was, that the Militia should
fall. The Militia did fall. At the close of the war
the ballot was to.cease,and the Militia be recruited by
a bounty. After this you may call it what you please;

it w co 'ttierell.‘fttia. Wbett the,loeal.and pcysOn4l'-
conne;tion which 7kr.a.s the principal charaoeristiC and,
reconitnendatioo of the •Militia wasirerndved; it VI%
b) called the Army of the Crowd; it may be called
the ,Fencible Army
•it was no more a Militia: It was
a force enlited • for different services, by different
'bounties. ' The question :Os not now, whether men
should be raised for .different services by different
bounties, nor, whether they, should be raised by coin-
pulsion, hoWevet= modified,"The question -was,
Whether_ the Ml,itia-.Was -to be recruited, on the
repeal of ille I.nillot, by the Crown, or by the
Cowfies ? by ,either, what distiadion ,was there
between it and the; force which it was now sought
to get rice of ? If the modified• compulsion, which
the Militia Systern preserved, were abandoned,
the Country never could again, in the most try-.
ing circumstances, have recourse to a compulsory
levy. On what did the !tight" ionourable .Secre-
tary rest his' hypes of the system which was, 10 re-
place the present ? Even If there were 99 chances
out of tclo in favour of the success of Abe, Right
Hon.. Secrewy's•Plan, he woiil I be bound to shew
the Househow that tootle chance would be provided

. ,
against,' before he could be entitled to the pitssing of
the Bill. He. wished to know what experience enabled
the Right. Ili n, . Secretary, to calculate 4o sanguinely •
upon his Plan. He -thought/the Plan ought to have(
' been tried in a partial and
.qniet way before it was
proposed to discard fir it that modified cowpulsiou
which could never be resorted- to again.—With
respe& to the Bill it was intended to repeal, if-
under the disadvantage of, a notice. of motion, for
its repeal it produced 1 5 or 16,000 men this Year;
and if Parliament last ywr had kuidioned it in the-
prospeCt of its atlbrding'''9ooo, the .repeal would
come now with a.very ill grace. If alteration 'or
modification wits .proposed, lie . would not obieel,
but he could not think of parting altogether with a
measure that siapplied a number of recruits equal
to the whole of the 'casualties Of the Army. The
Right Honourable Secretary held forth a pledge that
his system would•firul...more won than weFe. now
found for.the Trl,ilitia bythe ballot, and tbr the Line,
by the ordinary recruiting, -over and above what was
now furnished by this Ad. The •promise was' so.
, gigantic that nobody would put-faith in it. The li-.
in'ttation of the term of service was besides calculated
. to take away as many as it added, aftera Very little
time. If this were to be done, he did not tkink the
House of Commons the place for doing it. If any
bOon were intended to the,soldiers, it ought to be

allowed to come from the Crown. May not the new
Plan have been silently and partially tried, and the
House ciilled upon to giVe its sauEtion to the result,
rather than to the crude experiment. The eXperi-
ment was to be sure worth trying, but was it ths'ne-
fore to be tried in War, at a time when the Army was
at a very hii,;h .amount, when it was inapplicable to
that Army as it stood. it had been stated that en-
listment for terms of years was the praiice of other
Powers. If it had been, Britain was so ditferently
circumstanced that the rule would not be binding
upon her; but the fad was,. no one Power acted
upon the system of levying
.men for a term of years.
Unless these Powers en. fisted volunteers for li-
mited service the.comparison was inapplicable; and
according to the statements made, their system was
compulsory for term df years. Our whole system
*as to be reversed; that which was now the excep-
tion Was to be the rule. The result of the experiment
'made in the American war was sufficient to warrant
the repetition of it now ;. but not to justify its being
Made the foundation of a complete change in the
system. The_ Regiment raised by his NOble Friend
(Lord De Blaquiere) for limited service had ended,
after condu&ing itself very gallantly, by engaging for
general service.. It was said to be unwise to mamruvrel
too much in the face of au enemy. Though tho
Right Hon. Gentleman had a long time aEted on that
maxim, his late ConduEt was contrary to it. What
Man in the Country who had a Musket in his hand
was not cast into doubts and deliberations with him-

self and his Corps by the measures of the Right
Hcu. Gentleman. The Volunteers, the and,
the Regular Soldiers, saw their whole state and
condition made the subject of Parliamentary dis-
cussion and Legislative arrangemenL What ex-
cuse could any person, sitting on the -side of the
House where he sat, find in the, times of the hottest

opposition for urging tOrward a iueasure so .vasti.and
involving such momentous Consequences. What
excuse could any Minister find for bringing forward
such.alneasure in times like ale present. If ,any

necessity existed, it must arise' from causes not.
known in the House-. He could not pretend to
lay down the measure of the information col-
le6ted. by the Hon. Gentleman ; but so far as he was.
aware of the opinions and authorities collected on
the subjeft, he believed, and the supposition was
confirmed by the statement of the Right Hon. Se-
cretary. himself, that they were nearly balanced, But
till he had better means of judging of the opinions,
by comparing them with .the fads, he should beg
leave to doubt that the balance of the authorities was
against him. Those whogave their opinions in favour
of inlisting for a limited period, k.vere against dismis-
sing the men in time of war. Eleven' opinions of the
thirteen were express as to this point. The other
two, he had authority to say, coincided with them.
On this ground he was adverse, not to the trial of
the experiment, but to the trial of it in time of war.
He was adverSe to the limitaion of the service to so,
short,a period. The Right Hon. Secretary bad no
one authority to countenance him except that of the
-Hon. Gentleman behind him, ;whom-he was happy
to see in his place, a rumour having gone abroad
that he had accepted an office, under tint Crown,
by which he ought to have vacated his seat.—
If there was nothing. in the sentiments entertained
out of doors, 'to induce the Right Hon. Gentleman to
bring forward his new.system, certainly nothing had
passed, in -the debates of the House to encourage him
to do so ; unless indeed he thought that because the
House had for several years rejected his opinions—
because they had last Session refused to repeal the
Additional Force At on his suggestion, they were
now to go to the right about, and admit the truth of
. what they formerly denied. It was a service, which
the Right. Hon. Gentleman undertook voluntarily,
and uncalled for. He wished to kno, whether or
not the system which the Right Hon. Gentleman
proposed, was able to sustain the onus of all our. other
previous military establishments, which it went tee
destroy ; and therefore, however entitled it might
be to praise, as an aid of those establishments,
yet the Right Honourable, Gentleman must, shove
the House, that it was sufficient aline to supply their

41,10:..., before he could: reashilebly -.n,,-Mpese•-that, it
'w.ould be adopted. Mile h had been said
,of the lEird-
-Ship of service for lite,, as ifethae service wfm.S.
nueduntil life was really exhansted, instead of com-
prehending only thal part of life in which a man was
fir fur military duties., It had been also asserted, that
this was the ft .time,that.-o.oy,,atteinp
madb to meliorate' the condition of the soldier.—
ThoMigh this ,was tile first that had -been talked of in
that-tlonse,it Certainly w_s•flot the first. Dining the
adininistratihn of inilitary affit;rs great and illus-
'•-trious Personage who now held the sittiationpfCornr
mandgr in Chief rite i eceivai Many -boons,
"and had experieneed,Censiderimbie 4-4overnent in his
simatien. Redoubled like Wise, \i''lletlwr.the induce-
ment which, this proposed limitation_ held out to
the soldier would prove a very strong one. To
the class. from which., soldiers were 'raised, the, ac-
quireinent of• the cOmmon necessaries of life,was
nearly all that., was desired. Give them, raiment,
food, and lodging 3, take care "of them in Sickness,
and they were 4m:ensiled., Jile.had seen a plan.for li-
mited service ;Mat Weekly Periodical 'Paper, which
Seemed to him much better calculated to obtain 'the
end proposed than that of the Right Hen. Gentleman.
• The. Plan he alluded to Went to militarise the whole
people. The principle of it was hot to retain but to
dismiss. • The, benefits of that Plan he,could under-
stand. The Right Hon: Gentleman's ;PLin, on time
eontrary, went not to dismiss but to retains and yet
-:the only intellizibleend declared mode which he held
~out was short inhAments. The way in -wimiCh the
Right Hon. Gentleman bad.replied to the Objedioli
which had been made with regard to men in foreign
•
service, the terni of whose inlistineht shouldexpire„
was very extraordinary. It wasdifficult to say which
was the most hard to solve„ the original difficult);, or
the Right'Hon:.Gentleirian',,s soitition of it. FL pro
posed
.to-obviate it, by drafting those men into, other
Regiments. _Now if there ever lad •been a rnea7
sure more peculiarly loaded' with obloquy than any
other, it was this of drafting._ had also been sug-
gested, that an additional term of six niontht might
be bad recourse to, but wheh this: term. .expired,
the difficulty • Would recur. He 11.1 d lately read
a published- lift of General Washington, In
looking through •his campaigns, it would be found,
that the ',constant burden • of leis correspondenCe
with the Congress vas complaints of the incon-
venience which he sustained frorn'the inlistment of
his, troops fs,r a liMited term, andreqiiests that Con-
gress would, for the future; ,at least, inlist them to ,
serve during the Waft. sonsetimes.oecinted to that.
General, that on time eve. of a battle, his Army, by
the absurd constitution of it, crumbledto nothing.
He was therefore anxiety; to bring it' to that state
froth which the RightflonourableGentleman..seem-
ed desirous to'carry the British Army (Mr. Canning
here read a part of a letter from General Washington
to Congress, in which he termed the short enlist-
ments pernicious. and attributed his misfertunes to
this single.circisinStance, asserting, that Cf.ihe Ame-
rican Army had been permanent from the coin:
mencement of the war, .it would have arrived at a
state of discipline that Would haVe enabled it to 'bid'
defiance to the attempts of its emies). It was true
the periods of enlistinent were shorter thtui those of
time Right Hon. Gentierrian a they Were annual. But
this did not alter the principle or weaken the value
of Gen. Washington's objeetion. He was desirous
the enlistment should be for the war ;. and he bad
no more reason then. than. we have now tt) believe
. the war would be short. 'lt might be said; that for
seven.years no inconvenience would be felt from the
new regulation. This was true ; but it. was also true
that after the expiration of that period an annual in-
Convenieece would be felt. ;.What would be • said
of the danger to •which our colonies might be subject:
at the moment when a considerable part of their-gar-
rison might become released from their'- engage-
ments'? He trusted. that the spirit of our soldiery
would not be urged as a means of averting that dan-
ger. To avail ourselves of that spirit the rule
must be abandoned, and thus partial abandonment
would be produaive of numberless ill conscquenees
On the other hand, were the rule strictly adhered to,
the Right Hon. Gentleman might' perhaps *exclaim,
" Perish the colonies rather than this principle." The'
Right Hon. Gentleman had declared his intention of
discountenancing the many tricks and artifices re-
sorted to In the inlisting of soldiers. He haddepre-
cated -very strongly the motives by which the-Recruit-
ing, Officers were frequently aduated. For his part he
was iippreliensive of looking too closely into this and
similar stibie&s: He' was apprehensive that if. all
human motives were proscribed, all excitement to
human action must cease. It certainly often happened,
that a Recruiting; Officer availed himself of the situa-
tion in ..vinchdie found the man whom he wished to
lutist.' He might sometimes find him in mistOrtune,
.sometimes in love, sometimes in debt, sometimes in
drink. Were the Recruiting Officer to ad so fairly,
as not to. holdout to him the glory of a military lite,.
and endeavour to depreciate in his, estimation- that
which he pUrsued; were lie to en ter into full descrip-
tion of tne dangers to which a soldier was liabk, to
talk of cannon. balls, 'of wounds, of.deatheinstead of
paintin, the fair side of the question ; were _this the
plan which the Right Hon. Gentleman wished to re-
commend and sanction, he feared that the number
of recruits obtained by it would be but_ very smell.
But it seemed that the Right Hon. Gentleman placed
great reliance on
,the prospe& of re-inlisting men at
tlic expiration of their first term of service. He
agreed with the Hon. ,General, that a laxity of di's-,
cipline must be-the consequence of this system, fOr
the reasons assigned by that Hon. General, should
the Soldier determine to remain only during his first
•
1 term, and'from the six. months. drunkenness which
the receipt of his. bounty would occasion. The
Rt. Hon. Gent. had talked a great deal before the de-
velopment of his plan of looking into the deepest
recesses of the human heart for the springs of imaion.
.He had listened with great attention, to• what would
be the result of this profound investigatiyn, and he
confessed that he was somewhat surrised to find that
the Rt. Hon. Gentleman's knowled. e of the human
heart led him to suppose that an adt.tian to his pay
of sixpence a week would obliterate in a Soldier the
love of his home, and outweigh in his mind: every
other consideration. . A great objedion which he
• held against the Right. Hon. Gentleman's plan was,
that he had declared it non-applicable to the existing
Army. When time Right Hon. Gentleman had been
pressed on this subject he answered, that they had
already made a contrad with the Country, to the
. terms of which they were bound to adhere. He dif-
fered fromhim with regard to tagec.mnstrudion to be
m

put upon thi4t ontraft..- Ie eOuld not but think, taat
in fairness it entitled the men who entered. into it to
every conOngent' advantage, when he considered that
under it. he would be subjeEt' to every contingent
hardship and-danger. Besides the Right Honourable
Gentleman would sclreelv contend, that as these men.
:_,lead entered into a cOntraa, the terms of which were,
in his opinion, unjust -and oppresive, that, therefore,
they must remain bound by it. Above all men it
*onht least become thatitiOt TIOn. Gentleman to say'
this. " But" it 'night b,e answered, " to grant this in-
dulgence to the ntilsting Army, wopld be attended
with considerable to ate Public." He

. -
accepted this answer e but-if he accepted the answer to
'this propaSitioe, he uretati.)e allowed to make it to
all the other plopoeitioes. If it mould be attended
with considerable public incenvenience to limit the
,service of the existiog Army, it would be attended
with no less. public incenvenienhe to recruit that
Army with, men inlisted for limited service. In
whatever- view he took of the subjed, he. saw laOr
thing but inconvenience and embarrassment.
really thought, thataas the itight Hon. Gentleman .
,proceeded, he would find, this, to be more and more
the case, acid-that At last he'-would be happy- could
he retread the, steps which he had taken. . He truSte
ed, therefore, that the House would not hastily stake
every thing cohnersled with 'the safety of the country,
on a measure, which however desirable it might be as
an experiment on a small scale, yet,as a general system
-of the military defence of Great Britain, was one of
the wildest that had been or. that ever could be pro-
posed.; The Right _.Hon. Gem:Lenten had extolled
the -advantage of -ha lug _a huge regular Army,-
On that' subeea there could be no difference of opi-
iliOn ; but the 'Hotise might certainly be at liberty,
to doubt, whether or not, the establishment of a
very
,large regular Army without any check or bee
lance, -was a fit state for the military system of this
Country. The Right Hon. Gentleman was endea-
Votiiiifg to lay the foundation of a large regular Army
whilele_was _saPpi ng every thing,that ought consti-
tutionally to.accompany it.. He might, perhaps, be
told, that the checks and balances to which
.he al--
laded. were the tnereereaturea of imagination, and that'.
it was in uo degree probable, that the Militia, or
the Volunteers, would ever he really opposed to the
Line. Still theyeeperated :tan check. What was
the case with the Constitiation. of the Country).---
When, foreigners 'were told of the power of this
braneli of theleeislature, and of the power of that
branch,: theY'fieacied that the .work of Government
and Legislation Must 6t?.11(1 but the. fa& was,
that it was carried'on mere smoothly by these means.-
The operation of .our check the regular Army'
ough Silent: -The- Right 'll6s7rseefitle-
Manis SyStehe was calculated to destroy, those checks,
and Co erect a 'lnge unbalanca Armye- This was
subjeel .of infinite importance in a Constitutional
point.of view,
.and be Certainly thought that Parliaa
merit ought not to Accede to it, without a much more
urgent' neeek,ity were shewu for such a measure than
had hitherto. been brought forward ; particularly in
the new. mode of raising the-Militia, which thellight
Hon. Gentleman proposed if it were to be raised
by the Crown, it 'would--be liable to all the Consa-.
tutional objeCtions againsatastanding- Army, without
produeing to the Country the advantages of aregular
Army. This year, for the first time Since.* Re-
volution, Vet-hem:n had voted the Supplies tier tha
Army before ihe phesentatieu of.the Army. Estimates.
'Having so tier foregone the-jealousy which ought to
charaeterise their proeeedings , in _these respeats, . it
behaVed them to be. cautious what deicrißOmi of
Army.evas to be raised by these Supplies. He-might.
be told, that from whatever danger to the Constitn-
tion there existed .in a standing Army, the, Mutiny
Bilk. was a sufficient security... , He did not think so.
The Mut-inv.Bill was annual, and recog-nised no term
of service. Besides, if thelltight Hon. Gentle Man's
system were established, the House would agree to
-the raising ofthe soldier's pay, after a service of 7
years, would tell him so, and would give him e vested
interest iu a pension, which would 'be saleable pro:,
perty.. One would have thought, from the statement
of the piinciple on which the, Right lion: Gentle-
man proposed the. Additional Defence Aa,,frena the
strong preference which he had manifested fiat
voluntary over compulSory ser-vicee that there was at
least one military institution in the Country which
he must regard with admiration. If the Right Hon.
Gentleman had read in ancient history, that the
whole populationof a Country, had suddenly quitted
their accustomed habits, and had voluntarily essinned
a martial appearance, and
.subjected themselves to
military djacipline, he Would have spoken. of such
an event with enthuSiasM. But realities did net snit
him.. Distant phantoms alone could interest his
feelings. ' At the very time when it was said by
France, that the people of this Country, gorged
with wealth, were insensible to honour, and inca-
pable el'exetaien=at that very -Moment did they
give the lie to these assertions, and prole themselves
aliVe to every generous and every. patriotic semi-
. ment. Brit this was too near an event-for the Right
Hon. "Gentleman. He thought that the assumption
of the soldier by the Citizen, polluted and degraded
• the, 'military-character. Many of those who had
ebeen the most prominent in their exertions on this
occasion had
,been subjected to the meanest in-
sults. He certainly acquitted 'the Right Honourable
Geutleinan of having uttered any personalties, but
it must be strongly in the recollection of the House
that an individual had been mentioned in the most
.unbecoming manner, whe,e only -fault was, that
abandoning oh his.thrmer habits, he had come for-
ward at a period of danger in a way,which seemed
to him best calchlated to disservice to hiS Country..
He could not concur, with the Right Hon. Gentle-
Man when he, told the House that the Regular Army
was the. sole cliampion of the Country, and that if
this chaMplon wereedefeated the Country must fall.
The instances which he had adduced of the Battles,
of Austerlitz amid Uhri were not in point.- The
Right Half. Gentiernan;had said, that after the Aus-
trian Armies had beep defeated at those places the
French Forces passed on avithout the slightest op-
'position. But he would ask: the Right' Hon. Gen-
tleman if there had been between the Inn and Vi-
enna,four hundred thousand Volunteers, or the Mi-
litia, of which this Country could boast, would the
conquest of -that capital have been thenso easy—er
would it have been- at all effeCted ?se--He could there-
fore sek; no cause for stating_ that the very existence
el the caeteetry depended en the Begelar Army alone.
With regard to the assertion that the UniOn. of the
civil a: d the military characters, had disgraced the
latter, his opinion was dire stly the reverse. 'He

considered this 'only peel tetly heettit-
able to the general charaßer of this country, but as! I
, analogous' to. its Constitution. When it was told'
. Foreigners that all the distributive justice of the'
Country was administered by men not in the -pro-
fession of the law, but by. Magistrates who lent •
their • services to the. Public for this purpose, they'
were :astonished at a praeticeso different from that
which: obtained. on the Continent. No ,one, he*
believed, however, would venture to tell- fain-that
the profession of the laW in Great Britain ;was eon-
taininetedby this practice. It was not arguedthat the
Volunteers were equal .to the Regular Army, nor
did-he so understand the Reports on the Teble, which
stated that they Were-competent to a& with thee
Line. Alithat'Was contended for was; that they
were itesuch 'a state of diScipline es to aid, and not
disconceet; the:Rea-111Sr Army.; tocoMmunicate health
to themeand not disease.. He wished that the same'
words ,I with the same limitation, andebesainejostice,
refight seine' time fienee applied to the Right
Honourable Gentleman's masse. The Right Hon.
.Genftemen seemed tie set 'out With a -determination
of reversing `not the ptieciples- of his predecessors,
but' the "application of them: Where cenipelsion
had been used, " here;"' sayehe, " eve-must 'have
volt/bully 'service 3" 'and 'Where voluntary serviee had
heen established, be thoughe'comptilsion More'eligie
The-Rielft Hon. Gentleman wee"goin'a.o-etoepro-
pose a compulsion' more-violent than' the- Coun'tfy
ad experietteed for' Many ' years, by.celling•out his
masse; andethis after the servites'of so many Voloo-:
Leers had berm tendered and accepted: He preferred,.
it seemed, the mode- of proceeding which created
the gee-meet compulsion, and produced 'the least:sere-
vice. Ballot Wee- to•be lied' recourse to; and, the
Right Hob. Geotlemati. said that he was no -enemy
to the Voltinteee Ektablishment, which he- wished
p' to keep by this Ballot. Raw ?. The Right Ilen.
Gentleman' certainly could not-mean to subje& to
the Ballot Viehoffeers who exercised 'their undoubted
right of quitting the COrpgeto eyelid]. therbelonged,
The Ballotevas for" the purpose' of gaining: men
loosely; an iedivictual:wheehatt been for some time.
in a Volunteer' Corps- could "not' by anyeneaffe' be
supposed to -stetted in' need of any, training of -this de-
stription. H&w, the-ref-dm could the Right' Heine
Gentleman expe& w niainteie' the VOlunteere by'
the-operatlereof the Ballot. If it.Nr4S intended:to'
subjeCt those- who quitted their Corps to the Ballot,
this-appeared- tb him to be-s 0 greee an' aft-of' injus-•
tice; that he shanid hie:self propose a'Clatise to pree-
Vent it. Now with regard to this'reessethat was-to
'be called out; several qteestiorte'.aeose, as how they
- Were- to be -trained?' how combined ? and.whither
were 'they to go'? To rind` Officers for the purpose'
eoftraittingethein would be-cliff-lath' if mot impossible.
The Officers of the second Battalions.of the Rectal:lr
.111-my had been mentioned for' the perpose, but of!
- the. 57. Second Battalions, 00 'were. only 366. strOtig,.
Arid the remaining 27 were not at-all Officered. BUt
supposing that they could .be trained,' whither were
they .afterwards.tit go'?- . How- would it'be possible'
to keep a, registeeofeeeeeo,oonnames a-year; Willa
in.sbe years Would amount to twelve hundred-thou-
' sand; go as-to enable Government to lay their hands '
upon them, . immediately on their 'being wented.?—
The nature and the objeEt of 'eheir training would
likewise be matters of.consideration. If they were
only to" be- employed in popping at the Enemyfeem
over hedges and behind ditches; no training would:
belrequirecl—but if, as' had been stated by the Right
Hon. Gentleman', they' were to be takee into ;flee
,• ranks' of the • Regular Army; he wished' to' know•'
whether there was a single Commanding Officer,
who; having ibst coo'men, would not much rather
go into' battle again -with his "shattered Battalions' as
they were; than see' them filled up With men, who,
from their inadequate discipline, must create the
eutenoSt confileion.?- The House must -well. remem-
ber the obleenyehat vas cast on the measure of
drafting from time Militia to Regular Regiments
when' the Expedition. to Holland, teok' place ; yet
how infinitely superior must the Mae be to
the peasant; who should only be iteieed fere/3 days in
the year! 'And-yet this' leose and inefficieettraininee
would he an annual =expel-ce to the Country of
'260;0001: A large' sum ' had' been laid out in the-
disciplining
of the Volunteers ; a sum, indeed,
nearly', equal to 'one' year's receipt- of the' Income
Tax.; and now the advaritagesaecruing from that
system' were 'to be hastilfabandoned. This was
the more obnoxious to the VolUnteers; as more than
half that sum had proceeded immediately from their
Own pockets. -Anotheedonsideretion Was the kiiid
of encouragement- which Was to be held out to
the-indivlduals whoeceMposed the masse : he' had no'
doubt that they would aCt bravely; every English-
man did so ; but certainly it was mighty alluring to
Say tothem—wYou will never' be' called oil until
a vacancy" occurs ;" in other 'Nvords, " until the
man is shot whose place you are to supply." These
men too were tint to be regimentally clothed ; so
that as they entered-.the ranks, they would- meet
with a Proclamation from the Enemy; that all men
*taken in arms, and not regiller soldiers, should une
dergo military execution. It was not likely, after
every allowance had been made for their courage,
that these men could display any great' zeal under
such circumstances 3' nor was the objea itself at all
desirable. He. thought that it had been argued on
all heeds., that of numerical force the Country pos-
seseed enough, and that the only difference existed
eas to its nature and distribution. It 'was- singular
-that the Right Hon. Gentleman should have de-
' 'claimed so loudly against a variety of force when
he was on the' opposite side, Of the House, and
now he was a Minister', that he- should • divide the
Regular" Atmy into two distin& classes, and add
another species' of voluntary force ! The. Right Hen:
Gentleman must have!fourid in' his Office a. plan' fOr
colleaieg a yery coesiderable Arnie' at any. time
round London in four days, well armed, clothed,
and fit for immediate service ; and yet to this he
preferred his Masse, which was only to aa-, and af-
ter London was destroyed, to serve as a kind of
Post obit' on the. Metropolis. The Right Gen-
tleman in detailing his plan' had stated, that the
Houeewould find nothing in it but the application
of the principles which he had before maintained.:
he confessed- that. to him this was no recommenda-
tion—he should have been' better pleased' had he
stated, that the plan was a coetradietion of those
principles. It would be perhaps worth while, liow-
ever; to examine how. fare this assertion was corre&,
.by recalling to the attention of the House the prin-
ciples ut held by that Right Hon. Gentleman. He
had' fortunately such a happy talent of marking, his
ele`-

.
tVay fantlVl atatteiis arguM4l`. •
Were forgotten, the rethembranee of those illastra-;
tions would easily reCall•them to the mind.' ..As.
haed been said of th 6. great" Pericles, , " he left
,a
sting in the ears of his -audience..." A le\V -Of ~
theseillostrations,, and those only, . enahred- lith to.
recoiled the arguments -with, which the tßigbt 1-10-;
Gentleman accompanied them,.. -"Mien .speaking
of the disadvantages of: ballot, every:one-mist re;-
ni4inber that the Right tiourable-- Gentleman ridi-
ctiled it, under the ideal that one to whom the lot
might fall, would, in seeking about for a substitute;
be like Diieid-Siiiip/e. looking 'about for friends—
lauglo,-;,=-11e.'humotously 'compared the two dis-
tin& modes of recruiting-to the story of the man
who having.made a large hple in his door for the ad-
mission of his large cat, afterwards caused a .smaller
one to be-cut for thie' entrance of her kitten. On
the transfusion of men from one Corps to another,
the Right- Hon. Gentleman had bestowed a super-
abundance of wit : he bad called it a resemblance to •
decanting ; then to distilling; afterwardS to the c*
pilliary tubes; andlastly to the lobby of the House
of Commons. Strange as it was, it was not the less
true, that after all .these happy strokes of imagina-
tion; the Right Hon. Gentleman. had 'been driven to
the necessity of using in his own operations the'
apparatus on 'which he had formerly: exhausted his,
pleasantry. The Ballot . he had re-established, ac-
companied by its old friend, Fine. The various
modes of recruiting were exemplified in different
parts of his system, a's was also the transfusion. In
shOrt, not a single principle that he had reprobated
.:escaped Alia adoption.: He was far from thinking ‘j
that by thus doing, the Right Hon. Gentleman pre-
;eluded -himself from forming a, good plan. By mis,
.placing theseprinciples, however, he certainly had in, ,
,his: opinion completely failed. -.With- regard to the
Additional. Force Ad, he by no means considered it
as perfect; he was convinced that• many of its pro-
visions and etiadments might be 'amended; but he
contended that its principle was of sterling worth.—
however, it had failed in its effed,which he
'positively denied; let it be reeolleEted, that his late
Right Honourable Friend, 'in framing, it, had to
contend with difficulties which-the Right Honoura-
ble, Gentleman seemed to think lightly of. His..
Right Hon. ,Friend did not.proposesimply toinarease
the. British Army, but 'to produce as. great an effi--
cient FOrce in thedOrintry as the Constitution would
-pert-nit, The Right Honourable Gentleman only
to increase the Regular Army without at-
tending at all to the principles of the Constitution.
His task was therefore much easier—and thinking
as lie did of the Additional Force Ad he must not
flatter himself-that- be had:sent the bow to which
the strength of his great predecessor was unequal.
, What the Right Hon. Gentleman wanted vented' to'
• be to fasten on us a Regular Army, which should
be permanent in-Peace and dissoluble in
which. should' possess strength enough to be dan-
Scions to the Constitution, and fragility enough to
be unserviceable to the Country.. It was impossi-
ble not to recollect : that no term of reproach or
contumely had been
,s'pared by.the Right Hon. Gen-
tlemati, when -he Conceived• that, his Right Hon.
Friend's Plan had ,not .succeeded. He might nay
retaliate—fOr certain he was that all the Right
Hon. Gentlernan's endeaYoUrs had proved fruit-
less--41iat hia'Mountain'had brought forth a mouse..-
The. House would do well to pause
,before they
'agreed to abandon the Ad froM which such benefit
had been 'deriYed, for a crude undigested plan, of
which nothing was known but the danger. .If the
measures prOposed by the Right Honourable' Gen-
tleman would produce / large unbalanced Regular
Arniy,- was that what the Country wished 'for ?
Some-people seemed to think it utterly impossible
-.-thattheCOuntry could have Regular Aviv • enough.
He was not one'of those. He wished for as large an
Army alone as was Sufficient to•defend our shores,
and not enough to overwhelm our liberties.—
He should' betontent with security at home,. and
respedabilityabroad. He was far front wishing that
a measure should be fastened on the Country which
the Government wOuld-notcarry into effect; but he
Certainly wished that the House should, by their
vote, skew that they.did not think the RightiHon.
Gentleman's plan all-sufficient as a substitute, unless
'.it were very considerably altered frorn what it had
been stated by him. That point established, he
. would himself be the first to move, that the Addi=
tiara' Force-A& shotild-be referred to.a Committee,
for, the purpose of adding to what was defedive, and
corre&ing what was 'erroneous, and he would then
willingly abandon it altogether, if it were foundin-
' ferior to-the amended plan of the Right HonL Gen-
tleman. He would-Move, therefore, " That for the
word". now," in the original Motion, be substituted
the words " ti,tis7day4hree-weeks."
. Mr. WIL BERFORCE complimented the night
Hon. Gent. on the very extraordinary talents which
he had just displayed.
,He thought, however, that
in the question before the House, viz. whether the
Additional Force A& should, or should not be re=
pealed, helad said but little. To-this point, there-
fore; he should confine his own observations. As
an independent Member of Parliament, unconneded
with any patty, he felt it his duty- to vote for the
repeal of the Bill, because he thought it vicious in
its principle, and impotent -.hi its operation. OU
. this- subje& lie had' obtained information from those
who were better qualified to judge of it thanhimself.
' Those whose knowledge enabled them to 'make an
accurate estimate of its merits ; even those who ori-
ginally were prepossessed in its favour, now declared
that the Bill had been utterly unprodtidiye. He had
applied-to several of the most experienced Magistrates
in the'East Riding and the West Riding of York-
shire. The-former was thinly-inhabited, the latter
was very populous, they were therefore udder dif-
ferent,. and indeed opposite circumstances, yet similar
answers'hadbeemeturned from both Distrids. In
the East Ruing hip had been told that not one man was
obtained; in the West Riding, thatithadcOmpletely
liesubsequently heard, that in the North
Rid:4g also not a single individnal. had been procured
by the operation of the Mt. 'He had afterwards..
written to a friend of his, a- very a&ive Magistrate
in SOmersetShire. From him le -learned, that in the
Bath distrid, which ought to have produced fifty-
four.men, not a single-man -ha-dien -raised. It was
true that this total failure did not every where take
place ; but one of the strongest objedions which he
entertained:against the-AC was, that it depended for
its' efficiency upon its infringement, -that was, that
where men.had- been-raised at all, they -had. not been
locally raised by parishes, as was the intention of

1.45 but by the ord'inaty .iffet.hoa
of re-
'c;ytit:itb,these Just-and solid grounds' he 7
drought that it 'ought to be repealed,- :From' the long:
exporienee which hehad of the:condata of the illu's-
trious charaeter who was•'!:the author -of this Bill,
was convinced that had he lived he would have been
the first,persou to propose at least a substantial alte,--
ration in it, if not a total repeal of it. It was one
CharaCteristic of that great
.man, Well deserting, of
adiniratiOn,that although hefrequentbr,..in the for
mation of. his measures, trusted 'solely- to the re-
• • • •
som.* of his own
_capacious Mind, upheld-by the!
dignity-of conscious reaitude, yet, that when he was
convinced that these measures were erroneous, hn
abandenedlliem,'regardless ofthe accusations which
were direCted against hiin of inconstancy .and incon,
sistency, and .readily adopted others of a 'different de,:
scription. It was this that rendered' him one of the
safest Mihisters that this Country ever saw; and the'
real confidence that he thus acquired :amply repaid
him fdr.the.homiliation, if; it might be so termed,
which a.retrograde motion ,seemed in the first in,
stance to incur. Returningto the question before the
House, he declared that in his'opinion the Bill called.
on_ men to furnish what it Was impossible they Could
furnish. That the Measure had been highly service-
able, as'. having adord'ed much useful intbraiation,
and many valuable hints, no one could deny. It had
thrown a -strong light on the best mode of procedure.
He concurred with the Right Hon. Gentleman who •
had just. sat down,, on the danger to the Constitution
which attended-the intrOdaCtion or forniation of 'a
large standing Army, •but• he did not think that that
Right, lion. Gentleman had stated the argument
;fairly. Let it be remembered that the levy en.masse,
however slight might ,be its training, Would in time
accuStom: the whole ,populatien of the Country to
arms; and they. would thus be enabled to withstand a
regular ariny, and aft as a check upon it. Besides,
the nuMber -Who, according to the Right Honour-
able Secretary's plan, must, after the expiration of
seven years from the present time, go out of the Regu-
lar Army Annually,l,youid by mixing with the people, .
very considerably increase their strength. He could
not but-be of opinion; that we were too much dis-
posed to think ourselves a military nation, and to
. depart from our true and proper chardaer, by which
we had attained to our present greatness.., He
thought we ought to endeavour to Preserve no
rhore
,of the military -.charaCter than'what Was sid-•,
ficient to enable us, .to ...maintain, ,a„reV:e6table
rank among the nations of Europe. There were
other ways in which We could oecaSiohally'assist out'
'Continental Allies, besides.that of Sendingthem large
bodies of Troops. Above all,, let us not think of ri-
valling the French as ainilitary.people:, Some parts
of the plan proposed by the Right Han. Sebretary
he highly. disapproved. He diffeted -widely from-
him about the Volunteers. He trusted that he Woyld.
consider this part of_ the
.snbieCt - with fairness, and'-
not 'allow himself to -be So bigotted to hiS Own opi:
nion,as to' refuse to•listen to any qualification of a
system which certainly in itself possessedmany
tages. In several instances the Volunteers had sheWh'
the most praiseworthy spirit an d 'alacrity. - Ofian alarm
being accidentally given on the CoaSt in the Nadi
Riding of Yorkshire; all-the Volunteers-in. the WeSts
Riding were called ;out. The utmost promptitude'
was.displayed, and on no occasion did such numbers
attend their' posts in ,80 short a time, scarcely a man
being Avanting. When the Right Hon. Secretary
allowed, that
.the levy en- masse would serve to re-
crUlt the ranks of. the Regular Army, he would
Scarcely contend, that , the Volunteers would not be
much better qualified for that plfrpose.
Mr. LONG defended the-measure proposed to be
repealed at some length,.and contended that it would
not be wise to give up a-Bill which produced; to a
certain extent, before they knew what was to be sub-
stituted for it. He then took a view of the zeal and
spirit with which the Volunteers had Come forward.
at the commencement of thepresent War. When put
upon the August allowances, eighteen of them might
be kept ny for the expellee 9f one foot soldier.—
The training of the Levy en masse, he was sure,
could not be renderecLetfeClual Without giving great
powers to the persons employed in training them
He recollected, when the_events- of the French Revo,
lution had giVen rise tO inquiries into the theory of
the foundation of all Governments, that a motion had
been made in that House fora Reform of the Re-
presentation of the People, and that a Right Hon.
Gentleman (Mr. Windham) had observed on the
occasion, " What ! will you repair your house whilst
the hurricane is raging about you ?" He should ap-
ply the Right-Hon. Gentleman's maxim to himself,
and ask, " What!! will you new model the struau're
of your Army whilst the hurricane is still raging
about you •?': If the Ballot should be once given up;
it could not afterwards be resorted to with effect;
and if the Plan of the Right Hon. Gentleman should
Sail, the failure would endanger the vital interests,'
nay the existence olthe Country. -

-Mr. HiltrrHoliN having voted in the'first in-
stance against the Bill now proposed to be repealed,
and having voted last Session against its repeal, felt
it necessary to state the grounds of his vote this
. It Was admitted on all sides of,the House to
he an obje& to augment and , increase the regular
torte;. and with a view tq this objet; he should'vote •
for the repeal of this Bill, because'it had completely,
and totally failed. The Hon. Gentleman has catered
into' an examination of the comparative statements
of the military force- of 'the Country at different pe-
riods,' made by a. NOble Lord (Castlereagh) on a
former night, with a view to prove the efficiency of
the measures of the late Administration. He con"-
tended, that in the place of taking, the amount
of the Military Force of the Country on the Ist of
January, 1804, and comparing that with the amount
of thelorce on the Ist of January, 1806, the No-
ble Lord ought to-have-taken it at the period-of the
Ist of July, 1804. The Honourable Gentleman
contended, that 'on the Ist. of July, 1804, the
whole of the force was 246,419, and that it'was on
•the• Ist of January, 1806, but 25,995 ; being an in-
: crease•of 13;533- only, for 'the late Administration
had no right to take credit for the addition of five or
six thousand to our ForeigkTthops, which Was the
:only advantagethlit had, Uteri. derived from therm
fortunate .Expedition to Hanover. By- a ,reference- to'
a Paper on the Table,. he contended, that; if what
had been held out as the expe4ted Operation, of the
measure had been acCompliiihed, it should have:
produced on the Ist of Oiaober, 1805, 41,4-1.5',. and.
' that the total of Men raised. by 'the' Bill was
only 12,925,- of which only 6,50 betti raised
for Englund and Wales, and- ay inore.of ttlat,nutn-,

• • •. ~ • ••
ber than 39 by 'Parish Oilieeti. In this
looked upon the, Bill to have totally failed'. th,-,1
-proceede;.l to SheW', from the 4iherent documents that
had been laid on the Table, thai, the Men raised iandar
'this. Bill had been' .procured by criMp.i; and. by"
-splicing- the two' Liounties,;"that after the:limited
service, and that for volunteering into the bine, by,
Which means the regular recruiting was de;rauded-,
and the 'men obtained • at' an' 'enormous- epence;
with great inconvenience and conpiderable ditfiCalties
to the CPtintry-. ' - •
•-•`. Mr, Lz/SCA'LLES', as he differed from his Hon.
Colleague in the vote tie Meant to give,..thonght- it
`necessary to State his reasons far voting as he should
`do' on- this occasion. : He 'agreo;lioweer, with his
Eon. Colleague; that the' men could not:be' raise' `as
'the Aa.-clirea§.- Yet he should not.fote for-
peat, because the' Right Hon. Gent. had bi=onglit for-
Ward the measure forits repeal in -conjUnLlon with
other measures, until. he'should be able to, Judge ut
'those
other rpeasures. The question was ot, whct-
ther this. Bill W'Ll to be'cOntinned, but villether the
House should give it up•befOre they kne iv what wai
to be Sustituted for it. For his o•,vn -pin he should
not agree to' give up: anylneasure procinced :a
'supply t 6 the Military • Fcirce' of the Utiun try for - the
theories of any Right Hen•Gnt. He (id not Mean
to anticipate yhat maybe the ineasuri:s- to be produced
'by the Right Hon-. Gentleman, but:shouid say.; that
:from his opening statement ref t h-em, tbeynppeared to
hint extremelyi dingerons, .extromeiy 'to
'the Volunteers; and extremAy iiietfc.:':tn,ll as to the
training -of the- Levy en Masse: 1t tiie Bill propos:-
ed to be iepearedhadMot prodUced men; it certainly
had not produCed 'agitation, fernient; and apprehen-
sion in every-part of the' Country.

Lord EUSTON said a fey words hi so low.a.tone.aS
to be inaudihle to the gallery ,hut, as nearly as•we
could colleCt, the suh-stanee of them were hi favour
of the Amendment.

Mr. GEORGE VANSITT.' Rl' thought that the
question JO be considered was; whether the ..13rish
Officers should be called-upon• to find.the meivi And '
whether the penalty of ..261. should belel,ied-fir each
man whom the Parish' Officers really could hot pro-
.cure. This vas an aft .of injustice, which he Was
sitre.the.Honse would not tolerate. There could
no advantage derived from the employment -of the
.Pariiir Officers; the swine number i.vould be • ob-
*nine& by the regular Recruiting Officers'. Besides„
the Parish. Officers had their own thi:ies to: pet
Tn the'Countyt'vhich heihad the honour to represent;
every encouragetnent • been .givenlss procure the
men. Though every exertion had been.made in that
County (Berkshfre) arid- up tOlbe-tiftkqf lak month,
only eleven men been raised.
Mr. SPENCER ,712,4A1HOPEr: had, no.: doubt.,
Many, obje&ions to the Bill, the repeal-of which had
• teen moved ' but still he would Contend, that it bad
'not fair pkty. iAs to the Other. topics 'that Were-to
.follOW; in' consequence Of. the.general'pLui 4 the
Itigh(Fton:Gentrernan, he should have thOuglat that
Right Hon. Gentleman
.the last Mat to propose a
limited service. *HOw Often has be disclaimed against
'the ill effeels of stich a'sy'steM; 'as:manite§t. jn the:
Militia. In ,short, he thOught :the plan in con-
teMplaiion
.went to • tariver with* the:Militia, to
tamper with the LeVien Ntasie, to tainpor Aith the
Volunteers,. and:with: the whcile of
litary Establishment. With reSped•tb,:the' (Ann=
teers, be thought•it would be A gross - violation cif
the-public-faith, :more especially after 'the. solemn
vote of thanks-whichibad paSsed that :House in their
favour. • •
• Mr. ROBERT THORNTON said a few words in fai,
roar of thelepeal of the. Bill. • ' .• '
Mr. BAS' ARD wAs .sensible, that many2of the
objealions to the Bili were well founded ; he should
not therefore oppose its repeal; but
,he !lad not made
up his Mind to vote for all' the other measures. which
the Right Hon. Gentleman:proposed to ernbrace.—
There was much in the Plan which he condemned,.
and which he could not helptensiderink•as a libel oti
the Army, the Militia and the Volunteers. As to the
Volunteers, it.was an ill' requital indeed for all the
zeal and enthusiasm they had displayea, to be told,
all depended upon the Army alone; as appeared from
the result of the battles of Aireng-o and of Austerlitz:

Mr. S. BOURINE complained of themanuec, not , _
Only in which the Defence', Bill had been' argued
against, but also against the general tendency of the
proposed 'military plan. It proposed no substitute
for retaining, the men raised by thataienture,
the contrary, it would let the' whole 'of that force
moulder away: In proof of the'efficacy of the Bill
in some respe&s, he quoted a passage of a letter
from the Inspeaing Officer at Berkthire; to the:Se+
cretary of State. Besides, he could never bring;him-
self to believe that it was a proper mode of raiSing-a
tnilitary \force. to endeavour to reduce it. to one deno-
mination. It' should be fashioned to various call- •
ings and propensities ;_ to local habits and facilities;
in a word, to the geniuS and chara6ter of the Coun-
try for whose defence and prote6tion it was raised.
-Lord
,DE .BLAQUIERE Supported the Amendment.
General NowroN said a few: words ; but in so low
tone as.not'to be audible in' the- galleiy.
Mr. C. DUNDA,S, Lord STANLEY,. and Mr. GOLD-
ING, spoke in favour of the original Motion.
The cry " question—question"—being very
urgent and generql, the House divided:on Mr'. Can.-
ning's- amendment, •
Ayes. -.-
Noes - 235 •
When strangers were re-admitted into the Gallery, •
we found . . ,

Lord CASTLEAEAGII on his legs; answering; it
Would seem, some observatious thathad fallen from
Mr. .Windhatn, and:. expressaig a wiSh'to• know
when it-was the intention- of the Right. Holiourable
Gentleman to bringforward the remaining part's of
'his plan.
Mr. FOX repithated the manner in which the
Motion- of hi§. Right Hon. Friend had been:discuss
ed'. Scarcely any thing was urged.in support of the.
Bill which the Motion went to repeal*, Tliere.seem-
ed to.bea general shyness to touch upon' that point,
while a heap of objections was accumelated against
measures which. were not at all under discussion
and at this condua he could not help expressing his
surprise.
CANNING obserYedi, that the .stirpri§(3.-ex-
..presse4l by the Right Hen. ,Secretary was- pertly
erratuitous : for what. mode of 'discussion could be
more natural and fair than to take up those topics
whithiwere to folla consetinen ceof the measure
mt. proposed, of which- that measure seernittQ.l)e
ate; basis, or the introaudiom. What. ccuild,