The Sun.
London, England, 1863-04-28 00:00:00

'ERA PAR

HOUSE OF LORDS—Last Evening.
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack at
the umal hour.

PETITIONS.
The Archbishop of CANTERBURY presented petitions
against the sale of intoxicating liquors on Sundays.
The Bishop of LONDON presented similar petitions.
Lord CHELMSFORD presented a petition against the
amalgamation of the City and metropolitan police force.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.
The Glasgow and South Western Railway (Capital),
North Eastern and Stockton and Darlington Railway
Company's Arnale,amation, Whittle Dean Water, Work-
ington Dock, Desford Road Stonehouse and Nails-
worth Railway, Caledonian Railway (Granton Bran.hes),
London, Brighten, and South Coast Railway (Extension
and' Alteration) bills were read a second time.
THIRD READINGS.
The Carmarthen and Cardigan Railway (No. 1), Black-
burn, Chorley, and Wigan Railway, and Vale of Llan-
gollen Railway bills were read a third time and passed.
THE WAR IN AMERICA—THE MAIL BAGS.
Earl RUSSELL --My lords, you a ill expect me, no doubt,
to answer the questions which were put to me on Friday
night. What I have to say will, I think, convince your
lordships it is not tiesirable that at this time I should state the
opinions which I have received from the law officers of the
Crown. On referring to the papers already presented to Par-
liament your lordships will see that a good deal of correspon-
dence passed subsequently to the Bth of August. The letter
written on the Bth of August has been published; but I
wrote afterwards to Mr. Stuart, and on the 10th of October
I made a further communication to the same gentleman. It
is not necessary to trouble your lordshps with the whole of
the lastmentioned despatch. Part of it has already been
presented to Parliament; but the despatch, after the pas
•
sages published in the printed papers, goes on to say :
" Her Majesty's Government are glad to find from your
despatch of the 12th of August last that the orders originally
given to American cruisers in regard to interference with
neutral vessels have been rescinded. If these orders had
bees sanctioned and continued in force by the Govern-
ment of the United States, they would have called for
prompt and firm remonstrance on the part of her
Maouldjesty:s Government and it will be proper that you
sh intimate Mr. Seward, while expressing the
satiefactien of her Majesty's Government et their revoca-
tion, that her Majesty's Government are glad to be there-
by spared from the necessity of stating their decided objet •
tions to their tenour, You will say that to order vessels,
though apparently and pima facie carrying on a lawful
trade, to be systematically seized on the high seas, without
any preliminary search, or without the discovery during
such search of any strong evidence of suspicion against such
vessels, would be to subject the mercantile marine of neu-
trals to a system of oppression and annoyance which no
neutral Government could be expected to tolerate. The un-
just seizure under urgent circumstances of a neutral vessel
may be considered as one of the occasional burdens which
a state of war may impose upon a neutral, and it may b partially compensated by the condemnation of the captor in
costs or in costs and damag.s ; but the indiscriminate and
general seizure of merchant vessels, without previous
search, converts an occasional exception into an intolerable
rule. The question which has arisen in this case as to the
izure of her Majesty's mails on board the Adele, while it
forms a new and very important element in this case, de-
serving very grave consideration, raises a point of some deli-
cacy and difficulty. Her .Majesty's Government cannot
doubt that the Government of the United States are pre-
pared to concede that all mail bags, clearly certified to be
such, shall be exempt from seizure or visitation, and that
some arrangement shall be made for immediately forward-
ing such bags to their destination in the event of the ship
which carries them being detained. If this is done, the ne-
cessity for discussing the claim, as a matter of strict right,
that her Majesty's mails on board a private vessel should
be exempted from visitation or detention, might be avoided;
and it is therefore desirable that you should ascertain from
Mr. Seward whether the Government of the United States
admits the principle that her Majesty's mail bags shall
neither be searched nor detained."
On receipt of this despatch, Mr. Stuart read it to Mr.
Seward, who was ready to admit the principle therein laid
down With regazd to naval rights. That there might be no
misunderstanding on the subject, it was agreed that special
instructions should be issued, Accordingly, on the 31st of
October, the following letter was addressed to Mr. Welles :
"Department of State, Washington, Oct. 31, 1802.
" is thought expedient that instructions be given
to the blockading and naval officers that, in case of capture
of merchant vessels suspected or found to be vessels of the
insurgents or contraband, the public mails of any friendly
or neutral Power, duly certified and authenticated as such,
shell not be searched or opened, but be put, as speedily as
may be convenient, on their way to their designated desti-
nations. This instruction, however, will'not be deemed to
protect similated mail bags, verified by forged certificates
or counterfeited seals.—l have, &c.,
" WILLIAM H. SE ARD."
Those were the instructions given to American naval offi-
cers, and no question arose with respect to them, until the
other day. I have just received the account of the prelimi •
nary proceedings in connection with that transaction. On
the 4th of April, Mr. Archibald, her Majesty's Consul at
New York, was summoned to attend the prize commission
in regard to the Peterhoff, which had been captured, as the
house is aware, by the United States. On arriving at the
office Mr. Archibald was shown the mail-bag taken from
the vessel, which was under the seal of her Majesty's Post-
master-General. Mr. Archibald protested against that seal
being broken and the bag examined, and requested that it
should be sent forward to its destination. The United States
officers, however, insisted that the bag should bo opened,
and that was accordingly done. The bag was found to con-
tain several packages addressed to Matamoras. Nothing
more took place on this occasion, and Mr. Archibald re-
ported the matter to Lord Lyons. Lord Lyons immediately
applied to Mr. Seward, and stated that the proceeding in
question was in violation of the letter of Oct. 31, upon which
he relied for the security of mails of this description certi-
fied by her Majesty's Postmaster-General. Mr. Seward
said the subject would require consideration. Subsequently
Mr. Archibald was again desired to attend the Prize Court,
and was there informed by the counsel for the United States
that it had been resolved to open the packages found in the
mail-bag. In the first instance Mr. Archibald was invited
to perform this task, in order to ascertain what were bona
fde letters, which should be forwarded to their destination,
and what were papers referring to the cargo, which should
be handed over to the Prize Court. Mr. Archibald, however,
declined to be a party to such a course. If the Court chose
to order the packages to be opened, he said he would be
present as a witness of the transaction, but cauld not ap-
prove or give any sanction to it. Upon this declaration the
proceedings seem to have been suspended, and the opening
of the packages was deferred, Mr. Archibald at once re-
ported to Lord Lyons what had been done. Lord Lyons
went to Mr. Seward, and pointed out that, in accordance
with the order of the 31st of October, the letters ought to be
replaced in the mail-bag and forwarded to their destination.
According to the latest intelligence which I have received,
a telegram had been sent to the Prize Court directing that
the packages were not to be opened until further orders, but
the Government of the United States had not come to any
definite determination on the subject. These are the facts of
tic case as they at present stand. The opinion of the law
officers of the Crown must, of course, be very carefully
weighed by her Majesty's Government before any steps are
taken. Instructions will be sent out probably by the next
mail, but in the meantime fresh information may arrive
which may quite alter the complexion of the affair. Under
these circumstances, I have to press for tbo indulgence of
your lordships in forbearing, for the present, to state the
opinion of the law officers of the Crown.
The Marquis of CLAN RICARDE said no one could ap-
preve more than he did the discretion which the Govern-
ment had exercised in postponing for the present the publi•
Cation of the opinion of the law officers. He was also glad
tho noble earl had called attention to the agreement of 31st
October as to the security of the mails. On the 11th instant
the owners of the Sea Queen, in addressing an inquiry to
the Government as to the amount of protection which would
be afforded to the mails, referred to the dictum of an Ame,
rican judge, to the effect that mail letters found on board a
British ship could legally be opened in order to ascertain the
the character of the ship. Now, seeing that by the letter of
October last that contention was waived on the part of the
United States Government, it would have been courteousin
the noble earl, or in the noble lord the Postmaster-General,
to have stated the understanding now in force. He wished
to know what steps had been taken by her Majesty's Go-
vernment to obtain correct reports of the proceedings of the
American prize courts. It was clearly of great importance
that they should know whether there was any conflict of
law between the prize courts and the United States Go-
vernment. He understood that a number of ships had been
seized, some of them as far back 2 10 months ago, and had
been taken into port, but had not yet been brought before
the Prize Court. The reason of that delay was believed by
the owners to ho the want of evidence against the vessels,
but from whatever cause it occurred it was most unjustifi.
able, (Hear, hear.)
reports of all
Earl RUSSELL was not sure that complete
the proceedings of the Prize Courts could be obtained, but
he would take care to remind the British Minister in the
United States of the importance of transmitting them when.
ever possible.

CHARGES FOR ENTAILED ESTATES FOR
RAILWAYS.

Lord REDESDALE called attention to the report from
flu select committee upon this subject, and to what he con-
sidered the objectionable nature of the course of procedure
recommended by that report—viz., allowing an entailed
estate to be charged to assist in making railways. His lord-
ship also read a letter from Lord St. Leopards in support of
his lordship's view of the case.
Earl GREY defended the report, and argued that the
system of charges recommended was justified by the great
benefit that railways conferred upon the estates in their im-
mediate vicinity.
After a few remarks from Lord Egerton, Lord Ravens-
worth, and Lord Stanley of Alderley, the Earl of Bandon,
Lord Wodehouse, the Earl of Airlte, and Lord Granville,
the subject dropped.
LONDON DIOCESES BILL.

This bill was read a second time.
GARDENS IN TOWNS PROTECTION BILL.
The Commons' amendments were agreed to.
NEW ZEALAND BOUNDARIES BILL.—
OFFENCES (SOUTH AFRICA) BILL.
These bills passed through committee.
°FYI" OF SECRETARY-AT-WAR ABOLITION
BILL--DocK YARDS PROTECTION ACT
.AMENIYM.RNT BILL.
-A
hes.l,9iTllascwiee read a third time and pasted.
1141 r Ps s•dj'Alxuacl at a quarter before ofirni

HOUSE OF COMMONS—Last Evening.
The SPEAKER, took the chair at:four o'clock.
The Cheltenham Roads Bill was read a third t"me.
The London, Tilbury, and Southend Railway, and the
Mersey Docks and Harbour Board Bill were considered and
ordered to be a read a third time.
DISTRESS IN LANCASHIRE.
- -

Mr. FERRAND presented several petitions, nume-
rously signed by cotton operatives, from places in York-
shire, Lancashire, Cheshire, and Derbyshire, expressing
thanks for the subscriptions sent for their aid from
various parts of England and the colonies, saying
that, in the opinion of practical men, there was
no probability of the restoration of the cotton
trade for many years, that they had endured the distress
consequent on the dearth of employment with patience and
resignation, and had endeavoured to prevent themselves
from sinking to the level of paupers; that the allowances
of the relief committees were more and more approximating
to the relief allowed by the unions, and that it was not suf-
ficient to maintain them in health and strengih, and pray-
ing the house to afford them the means of employment;
but if this were not practical, then to afford them
the means of emigration, especially to Canala, so
that they might procure there pre fitable occupa-
tion, in order to avert the probability of pestilence and
famine like that which formerly prevailed in Ireland.
EXPLANATION—INN KE IZERS' LIABILITY
BILL,
Mr. W. MARTIN desired to state that he had received,
since the debate on this bill on Wednesday, a communica-
tion from the hon. member for the Tower Hamlets, with
respect to some inferences he had drawn in regard to a rob-
bery of bank notes from the Grosvenor Hotel. Had ho
been in possession of the information thus com-
municated to him, he should not have drawn the
inferences he did. It appeared however that the bank notes
were actually lost.

ono which he had often used in that house. The hon,
member for Birmingham, three years after the repeal of the
corn laws, appealed to the House of Commons to be so kind
as to send out a commission to India to grow cotton for
Lancashire at the public expense. (Hear.) After that the
hon. member, then representing Birmingham, recommended
inland communication and railways in India, for the sole
benefit of the cotton manufacturers of this country. (Oh,
and laughter.) He thought he had shown that the cotton
manufacturers had had ample warning ; but because the
House of Commons would not put the country to the ex-
pense of sending out a commission to grow cotton for the
manufacturers of this country, they had from that time
nearly up to the present hour refused to spend a single six-
pence to place at their disposal a regular supply of cotton
without being dependent upon America for it. Having had
this ample warning, ho held that they were responsible for
the present position of affairs, and answerable to their work-
people for the suffering which they are now enduring. To
prove that the manufacturers were responsible, the hon.
gent'eraan quoted the hen, member for Rschdale, who, in a
speech delivered in Parliament, Sept, 24, 1841, said that all
the manufacturers required in the distress then existing was
the inalienable right to feed themselves. They had now
enjoyed that inalienable right for more than 15 years; but
they had ceased to exercise it so far as the cotton operatives
were concerned, They had broken faith with their work-
people, and the hon. gentleman himself had attended at
Manchester and made an appeal to the people of England for
a million of money to save those workpeople from starvation.
Par.iament had given full leave and licence to the cotton
manufacturers to redeem the whole of their pledges, but
they had failed to do so; and he (Mr. Ferrand) now held
them responsible for the suffering which the operatives were
enduring. The President of the Board of Trade (Mr. Milner
Gibson) was another authority to show that the manufac-
turers were alone responsible. In July, 1842, the right hon.
gentleman attributed the distress then existing solely to the
refusal of free trade with America, and said, if that were
given, there would be no more complaints, as there was
nothing that the working classes would not endure rather
than become paupers. Now, there was half a million of
people verging on pauperism in Lancashire, To save them-
selves from becoming paupers, they sent petitions to the
House of Commons, imploring it, in mercy and pity, to
rescue them from their degraded position; but the amend-
ment of the hon. member for Carlisle was to keep them one,
two, or three years as paupers—not even as national paupers
for they were world-wide paupers, being relieved even at
the antipodes. Did the hon. member think that 509,000
people would submit to this state of degradation ? Did he
think the people would Lelieve that a Royal Commission
was to remove their grievances or relieve their distress?
The hon. member would find himself grievously mistaken,
and the Government would also find that they were labour-
ing under a grievous mistake if they assented to the amend-
ment of the hon. member for Carlisle, for if they issued a
Royal commission they would henceforth make themselves
responsible for everything which happened. Coming to the
second proposition of the hon. member for Carlisle—that
no trade was so regular in this country as the cotton trade
—the hon, member read an extract from a letter of the
lat.) John Fielding, in which he had raised a warning voice
against the reckless trading and over production of his
brother manufacturers, by which they had made their
" productions stink in the nostrils of those to whom they
were offered." Sketching the history of the cotton trade,
the hon. gentleman said that it had existed for ninety
years. During the first half of that period it had enjoyed
the monopoly of the world. It had thus existed
through three generations of the English race ; but
he believed he might safely say that during that p riod it
had destroyed nine generations of the factory operatives.
(Laughter.) In support of this statement the hon. member
said that he had not seen a single old face a few days since
at Manchester, where a deputation of 27 delegates had
waited on him from the various cotton districts of Lanca-
shire, nor ont of the many that had conferred with him from
1842 to 1846 on the Ten Hours' Bill. He believed also that
evidence given before committees of that house would also
bear out the statement. From 1815 to 1830 the cotton trade
of this country had to contend against the cotton trade of
Europe and America. In 1833 the China and Indian trade
was opened, and he had no hesitation in saying that for the
last 20 years, since 1833, it had extended itself in the East
by the destruction of the human race. In 1790 the first
census of the United States showed that there were 697,000
slaves. In 1861 the probable number was 3,500,000. He
mode no charge against the Southern States of America,
for both England and the Northern States were equally
involved in the cotton trade, and no manufacturer of Lan-
cashire could hold up his hands and say they were clean.
(Laughter.) The hon, member for Birmingham, who had
attended a meeting of the trades unions of London the other
evening, inveighed against the cotton manufacturers for
upholding slavery; but, remembering that the hon. mem-
ber himself had been for many years identified with that
very trade, he should have been the last man to protest
against slavery in the Southern States of America. From
1315 to 1821 he found the cotton trade was depressed ; but
during 1822 and 1823 there was a prosperous trade. In
1824 the repeal of the combination laws took plae., and
there were strikes, and the mills were shut for Svc months.
In 1825 there was a great stagnation of trade; in 1826
there were great distress and rioting. In 1827 there was a
slight improvement. In 1828 there was a great increase
of power looms and exports. In 1829 the exports ex-
ceeded any former year, especially to India. In 1830,
1831, 1832, and 1823, there was continued distress. In the
last year the trade was thrown cpen to the East, and in
1834 there was a great increase of mills and machinery in
Lancashire, and everyone was rushing into the cotton trade,
from the conviction that, as the trade was thrown open to
the East, they would be able to make great fortunes. But
after the mills and machinery had been erected it was found
there was no population in the manufacturing districts to
work the machinery. A proposition was then made by the
cotton manufacturers of Lancashire to the Poor Law Com-
missioners to the effect that if they sent down what they
called the "surplus population" of the agricultural dis-
tricts they would absorb and use them up. (Laugh-
ter.) These were the very words that had been
used by the cotton manufacturers. Agents were appointed
in Lancashire, with the consent of the Poor-law
Commissioners ; the people were sent down from the agri-
cultural districts, their names were registered in a book,
and the manufacturers attended at the office and selected
such as their wants required—to use the phrase of the ma-
nufacturers. After they made the selections they sent in-
structions to the south of England to have the families of
the men conveyed to Lancashire, and they were forwarded,
ticketed like bales of goods, by canal, by carriers, and
tramping on the road, and many of them were found to be
halt etc-rued on reaching the manufacturing districts. The
cotton trade grew up a regular trade, and, the house would
hardly believe it, but the cotton trade was a regular traffic
in human flesh. (A laugh.) The hon. gentleman opposite
laughed, but he could assure him it was no laughing mat-
ter. These people were sold by the agents in
Manchester, as the slaves were to the cotton
growers in the Southern States of America. The hon.
member then reviewed the fluctuations of the cotton trade
from 183:5 to 1839, when a resolution was introduced for the
repeal of the corn laws. In this year the chairman of the
Manchester Chamber of Commerce, Mr, G. W. Wood, had
made a statement in that house that the commercial distress
whichhad for some time prevailed had passed away, and
that ho had never recollected any former embarrassment
so rapidly followed by a healthy state of commerce. The
hon. member referred to the depression of trade which
took place in 1840, '4l, and '42. In the last year the fac-
tory operatives were thrown out of the mills, and in conse-
quence of the disturbances which took place some of the
poor people were tried at the Lancaster Assizes. The
hardships of their condition were so great, that Sir
Frederick Pollock, who was then Attorney-General,
appealed to the judge to be merciful to them. In 1846 the
corn laws were repealed, and Ireland's trade was ruined
for the benefit of Lancashire. (A laugh.) In 1819 the
cotton trade was greatly revived, and Dr. Bowring, the
poet laureate of the Anti -Corn-law League, was despatched
to Hong Kong as Governor-General. (Laughter.) In
1856 Dr. Bowring, a member of the Peace Society, and Go-
vernor• General of Hong Kong, bombarded Canton—(a
laugh)—without any authority from his Government, but
entirely upon his own, because he had gone to China to open
the ports and break down international barriers (Laughter.)
Dr. Bowring not only bombarded the suburbs of Canton,
but ejected the Chinese royal commissioner out of his resi-
dence. The hon. member went on to notice other fluctua-
tions of the trade, and contended that the state of the cotton
trade was not so much owing to the civil war in America
as to over-production and the glut in the markets. It was
notorious that many of the manufacturers who had locked
their mills and turned their hands adrift were making large
profits of the raw material. He now came to the year 1861,
in which the census had been taken, and what was the re-
sult? The astounding one that the surplus population of
the agricultural districts was on the decline; and he would
aske r
what nation on earth could exist long in prosperity when
th
to tuurrnafloPr°anPillaituttilan to
h
hade
b etgnen
Presidentt o decline.
of h
Htee
P wishedoor nowlaw
Board. A deputation having waited on him to request that
the pauper children in union workhouses might be sent to
the manufacturing districts, what was the answer of the
right hon. gentleman ? The right hon. gentleman did not
make the deputation take their exit very rapidly—(a
laugh)—but expressed a belief that the proposal made
would prove beneficial to the children. The hon. member
for Manchester, at a meeting at Willis's Rooms last Wed-
nesday, had contradicted the assertion of Lord Shaftesbury
that the depression in the cotton districts was the result
mainly of over production, and at the same time had ex-
pressed his opinion that the evil was something like retribu-
tion for the wrongs inflicted on the sons of Ham. But would
the hon. member stand up and say that no injuries were in-
flicted on the sons of Shem and Japhet by the manufac-
turers of Lancashire ? But now the hon. member came for-
artetsen t time
for-
ward as the representative of the manufacturers, and prayed
e cotton
for a Royal commission, so as to throw the responsibility
the t frompta their ehoulders and place it on the Government. At
n tradeuinwes showed
etdhethoapt efrraotmivels7,7l: mills
years
being erected in various parts of Lancashire. The
werest ea ofthe when
t r
1815 there were five f stagnation and forty years of
prosperity; and from 1815 to the present time there were
of r
twenty-eight years
prosperit of sta • gnatron, and the rest were years
evival or y. Since the repeal of the Corn ,LAWS in 1846, the cotton trade Was depressed for nioe

years. And yet this was the steady trade for which the
hon. member for Carlisle (Mr. Potter) was going to ask for
a loan of £6,000,000 or £7,000,000--in reality a gift—
which he said would be repaid in one, two, or three years—
but of which sixpence would not be returned--to enable
employment to be given, and a supply of cotton to be ob-
tained. The hon. member boasted that there was no
trade which gave such heathy employment. The first
Sir Robert Peel, before a committee of the House of
Commons, gave the result of his 45 years' experience of the
cotton trade in a different fashion. He said that its effects
on the rising generation were such as he could not contem-
plate without horror, and he being dead yet spoke; for the
first Sir Robert Peel's prophecies were now being fulfilled.
He (Mr. Ferrand) was anxious to say nothing which would
irritate the house. (Ironical cheers.) But he was pre pared
to read documents giving awful disclosures if the house
wished. (Cries of "read, read.") Sir James Kay Shuttle-
worth, when practising as a medical man in Manchester,
published a pamphlet. He (Mr. Ferrand) would not give the
worst of his statement. (Cheers.) But if he were tempted, he
would give even that. That pamphlet stated that more than
half the children died before they had completed their fifth
year. (Date, da!o ) The date of the pamphlet was 1830
(Ironical cheers.) Yes, this was cheered by members opposite
who opposed the Factory Bill. It was his (Mr. Ferraud's)
side of the house which rescued the operatives from that
fate. Mr. Rathbone Gregg, a large cotton manufacturer,
also said, in 1831, that the factory operative had no time to
be wise, and that the trade, without interference, would
buret asunder the bonds of ami y which united men to one
another. This was the sate of Lancashire at the present
time. It had been well for the noble lord at the head of the
Government if, on returning from his visit to Scotland, he
had turned aside and visited Lancashire. He could have
told the members who sat on his side of the house that this
was no laughing matter. He (Mr. Ferrand) had received
from 27 of the operatives an account of their feelings, and
would say that it would not be possible to keep one-half the
people of Lancashire on outdoor employment. The workmen
were willing to earn a day's payby a day's work, but would
not be treated as paupers. Then there was a large num-
ber of superior workmen who could not be expected to work
at such class of employment as cleaning out rivers and
canals ; they wished to emigrate, and ought to have the
opportunity to go where they could get steady employment.
The hon. member for Carlisle (Mr. Potter) also made ano-
ther proposition, that had there been no American out-
break there would have been only a temporary glut in the
markets; and he ventured to predict that, after a year or
two, new supplies of cotton would be found, and cur ex-
ports would be forced into Indian districts as yet untra-
veled, for the benefit of the English manufacturer and
labeurer, provided that India was tolerably well governed
and kept quiet. He (Mr. Ferrand) was sure that the cotton
trade of Lancashire was responsible for the opening of the
trade of India and the sufferings which took place. The
hon. member for Birmingham (Mr. Bright) stated in 1850
that within the Indian territory a quantity of cotton was
grown equal to that in Lancashire, but seemed to forget
that this was consumed by the hand-loom weavers of India.
India had no representative in that house in 1853, or it
would not have been thrown open to Lancashire; and it
was thrown open with frightful effects. Since 1858, when
it passed under the government of the Queen, the debt had
increased from 68 millions to 200 millions at the present
time. Sir Robert Peel felt in 1830 the miseries of the In-
dians, and moved for a committee to protect the natives
from wrong and secure them the fruits of their industry,
but Earl Grey's Government, in 1832, only thought, in
the person of Lord Auckland, the President of the Board of
Trade, to open India and secure a passage formerchandiee.
Lord Auckland, in 1837, collected the army of the Indus
to open up untravelled parts, and the opening up of
them had been the history of the following years. To
carry out the Royal proclamation the late Mr. Wilson
was sent to India, with instructions to place 10 per cent.
import duty on Lancashire cotton goods, which had not
only an extraordinary effect in reviving the cotton trade
in India, but in pacifying the people of that country,
and mills were erected there for carrying on the cotton
trade. The Lancashire cotton manufacturers took the alarm,
and the consequence was that the import duty was reduced
to 5 per cent,, the Secretary of State for India acceding the
same year to an outlay of 24 millions extra in India on rail-
ways, He condemned the injustice of the Manchester man-
ufacturers towards the people of India in depriving them of
the 10 per cent. import duty for the protection of their trade,
observing that if they could compete with America, with a
duty of 30 or 40 per cent., they might have allowed the poor
Indian hand-loom weavers the paltry protection of 10 per
cent. The hon. member for Carlisle, however, urged the
forcing of goods into India, and the destruction of the in-
hahitants by thousands by the same kind of distress. He
considered her Majesty's word was pledged to India to pro-
tect the hand-loom weavers, and he warned the house against
a second rebellion in that country, which might lead to the
loss of that dependency. In regard to China, the effect of
our policy in that part of the world had been to engage us
in war 15 years out of 30 we had been there. For half the
30 years we had been burning, robbing, plundering, and
sacking different towns and cities in China, and the people
we had destroyed in countless thousands, and simply because
they would not suffer their hand-loom weavers to be des-
troyed in the same manner as ours had been. His firm
conviction was that we should be driven out of China, and
possess no firmer hold of it than we had previous to our
going there. What, he asked, were the manufacturers to
do under the present state of affairs ? It certainly was a
most extraordinary thing that the manufacturers should
come to that house for aid in their present difficulty, after
the way in which they set the opinions of that house at
defiance in 1842 and 1847, by declaring that they would be
subjected to no parliamentary or legislative control. The
hon. gentleman the member for Carlisle asked what Parlia-
ment had done ; but he scarcely knew what he meant, when
it was recollected that, during tha last 30 years, Parliament
had done everything the cotton manufacturers required.
The hon. gentleman had described it as very little indeed,
but he (Mr. Ferrand) thought the hon. gentleman should
be the last man to make such a complaint, The hon. gen-
tleman then referred to the legislation that had taken place
since 1833 in favour of the manufacturers, observing that
they had extended their trade to the injury of India and
China, and had ruined an otherwise prosperous trade by
over-building mills, erecting machinery, over-trading, and
over-borrowing. One half of the mills had been built, and
the machinery erected, with borrowed capital—forgetting
the old principle of live and let live that was practised from
1770 to 1815. Had they acted otherwise, we should
not have heard of the dreadful distress that now pre-
vailed in the north, He advised the manufacturers to
consider and adopt an eight hours' factory bill for adults,
and a four hours' bill for children, as a means to enable
them to open mote mills, allay the present distress, and pre-
vent its future recurrence, by limiting the amount of pro-
duction, and preventing the glut of the markets of the world.
The Lancashire operatives complained that by the Reform
Bill they had been deprived of the elective franchise, which
enabled them to return several members to the House of
Commons, and that since that period they had had no voice
in the representative system, and had therefore so much
greater claims on the indulgence and kindness of the house.
The operatives were taught to believe that the cotton trade
would never cease to be prosperous, and they were lured by
the most enormous falsehoods to go down to those districts
and seek employment there ; whereas they were now blocked
out of the mills, and in the greatest misery and distress.
The prediction of the hon. member for Rochdale, that within
two months after the repeal of the corn laws wage 4 would be
advanced, and that three masters would be bidding for the
services of two men, had not been verified. On Easter Mon-
day last 27 delegates from the manufacturing districts waited
upon him, and informed him that the labour of the factories
had seriously increased of late, and was continually incre,s-
ing, owing to the improvements in machinery. When power-
looms were first introduced, it took one person to tend two
looms. Now one man tends three, with a helper, and some-
times four. The other work had increased in proportion,
and the result was that work equal to 12 hours a day was
got out of the operatives under the Ten Hours' Bill. The
wages of the spinner of Surat cotton had been reduced from
30 to 40 per cent., and in some cases as much as 60 per cent.
He referred to the excessive labour entailed upon the spin-
ners in factories, which, he said, made them old men at 40
years of age; and said that the only place for cotton manu-
factures was India, and that he should be rejoiced to find
there were none in this country. The operatives of Lancashire
wished to fly from their distress, and had asked the house
to assist them to emigrate, in order that they might carry
out the doctrine laid down by the hon. member for Roch-
dale, that the labouring man had a right to take his labour
to the best market ; in fact thy asked for free trade in
labour. They had, however, no means of going elsewhere
unless Parliament took pity on them, and they asked for
some kindness, some consideration from that house. They
had worked hard, and had done much to increase the pros

perity of the country, and to produce that enormous amount
of accumulated wealth which the Chancellor of the Ex-

chequer alluded to on a former occasion. The right hon.

gentleman on that occasion took only the golden side of the
question, but he (Mr. Ferrand) had that night taken the
iron side, and had shown the evils resulting from it. Why
_ _

send down a commission to ascertain the causes of the die •

tress in Lancashire, when they knew that the cause of it
was their having blocked up the cotton mills ? But if they

sent a commission to Lancashire they must also send one to
Derbyshire, to Nottinghamshire, and to Scotland, where the
distress was even more frightful than it was in Lancashire.
The hon. member for Carlisle said that perhaps within 12
months they would have cotton enough to set all the mills
at work. He, however, preferred to take the estimate of
the hon. member for Manchester, who had expressed a fear
that some years must elapse before they could obtain their
accustomed supplies of the raw material. The hon member
for Carlisle advocated the keeping the operatives at home,
while the member for Manchester had shown a noble spirit
in proclaiming himself the advocate of emigration. (Hear.)
In conclusion the hon. member expressed a hope that the
House of Commons would recognise the evil of women and
children being employed in factories, and that one result of
the famine would be a diminution in the number of mar-
ried women so employed. Ho could assure the noble lord at
the head of the Government that his conduct in affording
an opportunity for the discussion of this motion would
never be forgotten by the operatives of the country. (Hear.)
,Mr. POTTER moved as an amendment oa the motion
just proposed, to leave out from the first word ° that" to
the end of the quoition, in order to add the words " an •

humble address be presented to her Majesty, praying that
she will be graciously pleased to appoint a I: oyal commis-
sion, to inquire into the present state of the cotton manu-
facturing districts, and to report on the best mode of reliev-
ing the distress existing therein," instead thereof. The
hon, member stated that the charitable funds collected for
the relief of the distress in the cotton manufacturing districts
had amounted to £2,000,000, while the amount contributed
by the ratepayers for the same purpose was £7J0,000. It
was apparent that in the coming year the contributions of
the charitable would fall far short of the assistance given to
the districts in the past year; and the question was, what
ought to be done ? Of the total amount subscribed, some-
thing under £500,000 remained for distribution, while the
number of paupers to be relieved amounted to 470,000, of
whom 80,000 were able-bodied men. He was for placing
the Lurthen more upon the property of the several districts ;
and with that view he would confer borrowing powers upon
the boards of guardians to enable them to raise money for
22 years. A sum of £1,700,000 might thus be very easily
raised. The central relief committee had recommended the
employment of the operatives upon public works ; wed, he
asked for a Royal commission, in order to ascertain what
works might be undertaken, and likewise the public bodies
upon whom the duty of superintending their execution
should be devolved. Ho warned the Goveinment against '
temporising with the difficulty, for if they attempted t,o do
so it would become chronic. lie believed that a sufficient
supply of cotton was only a question of time, and, therefore,
that no more serious question could come before the House
of Commons than that of tiding over the difficulty and keep-
ing up the moral standard of the operatives. He regretted
exceedingly that the house had not acceded to the appeal of
the hon. member for Rochdale, and allowed the unions
to borrow on the security of their rates. He asked again
that that power should be given. The appointment of
the commission which he proposed would do much within
the next five or six weeks to relieve the apprehensions
which had arisen, and on that ground he trusted it would
bo agreed to.
Mr. H. BAILLIE said that the time had now come when
it was the duty of the house to consider whether some mea-
sures could not be adopted for the reliefof the distress which
existed in the manufacturing districts. There was no doubt
that, at the commencement of next winter, the people would
have to depend entirely upon parochial rates. If they failed,
violence and outrage would probably ensue. The question
then arose, What were the other alternatives ? The first, in
his opinion, was Government aid and assistance to those
who wished to emigrate; and secondly, to find employment
for those who wanted to rem yin at home. The hon. gen-
tlemen referred to the assistance which had been given by
Government 25 years ago to the people on the north coasts
and islands of Scotlands, who had been reduced to distress
by taking the duty off barilla, and to the same assistance
given to the distressed weavers of the west of Scotland in
1820, who had been assisted to emigrate to Australia and
the Falkland Islands, old line-of-battle ships being fitted up
for the purpose. Such a course might again be adopted ;
and, if the unions paid for the clothing and food of the emi-
grants on the voyage, the expense would be little more than
the wear and tear of the old vessels that were now lying
idle in ordinary. The hon, member suggested also that the
proposed fortifications at the mouths of our commercial har-
bours, for which a sum of £500,000 had been voted, should
be made by the able-bodied men of Lancashire, at the full
wages of day labourers. He did not think there was any
necessity for the commission which the amendment pro-
posed, The Poor Law Board had a commissioner on the
spot, who reported every week on the state of the dis-
tricts. The Government, therefore, were fully aware of
what was going on, and further inquiry would only
create a delay which must be injurious to the working
classes. The Government, up to the present, had done
nothing, He did not blame them for that, as it was
the best course to pursue; but the time for inaction was
passed. There was a great calamity looming in the dis-
tance, and no time ought to be wasted in idle inquiries or
in seeking information which was already possessed. A
great responsibility would rest upon Ministers if they now
shrunk from their duty of providing for the safety and well-
being of the great body of the people. (Hear.)
Mr. VILLIERS said that he expected that the hon.
member who had brought forward this motion would have
made an attack upon the Government for neglecting their
duty. As that, however, had not been done, it had left him
but very little to say. With reference to the charge made
against himself with regard to pauper children, as far as he
recollected the circumstance referred to by the hon. member
opposite, it applied solely to the construction of an Act of
Parliament as to whether children who were in a state of
deal itution should not be sent to the manufacturing districts,
where they might be employed. The hon. member through-
out his speech complained of the manufacturers; he had
complained of them formerly, and now that he returned to
the house he renewed the complaint, He did not under-
stand what course the hon member wished the Government
to take. Various suggestions were thrown out from time
to time, and he therefore thought the hon. member was
going to suggest how the Government were to employ the
operatives of Lancashire. The hon. member for Devonport
proposed that Government should undertake to relieve the
distress in the cotton districts, and the hon. member for Car-
lisle was in favour of the Crown doing so, and he moved for
a Royal Commission. His own impression was that they
possessed all the information that was necessary, and if a
Royal Commission were issued to inquire it could not
add to the information they already possessed. The hon,
member for Carlisle seemed to think there was consider..
able ignorance on the part of the Government, and espe-
cially in the department of the Poor• lacy Board ; but
still he could not persuade himself that they were de-
ficient in the information necessary to enable them to
come to a right conclusion. He did not know any cause
of depression which could be so easily traced to the one
simple cause ; and he had never known one to which greater
publicity had been given, for there was not a fact or a de-
tail connected with the distress or the sufferings of the
people which was not made public, (Hear, hear.) He did
not think there was any doubt as to the cause of the dis-
tress, the extent of the distress, and the real remedy re-
quired. The number of persons engaged in the cotton trade
was above half a million ; and the sufferings of these 500,000
persons resulted from the simple cause that the raw mate-
rial upon which their industry depended could not be pro-
cured as formerly. There were upwards of 410,009 persons
dependent upon charity, and among these were 72,000 able
bodied men, for whom it was desired to find employment,
in order to rescue them from their degradation, and enable
them to earn the means of their own support. (Hear, hear.)
The hon. member for Devonport was in favour of the Go-
vernment taking charge of these 72,000 men, and defraying
the cost of their emigration. With regard to emigration, he
did not think it was the business of the Government to ad-
vance money for that purpose—(hear, hear)—nor did he
think the Government should oppose emigration. It was a
matter which should be left to the colonies, to the feeling
of the people, and to private and charitable enterprise. It
appeared to him to be a matter of doubtful policy, at a time
when every effort was being made to grow cotton to supply,
the demand, to be sending the people away who could pro-
fitably work the machinery. He was, therefore, opposed to
any scheme requiring the Government to promote emigra-
tion. When the hon. member for Devonport asked the Go-
vernment to assist the cotton operatives, he had not told
them that the people of Lancashire had exhausted all the
resources of their own county. The right hon. gentleman
then stated that from the first appearance of the distress
he had made it his duty to collect all the opinions he could
from practical men conversant with the manufacturing
districts, and he was happy to tell the house that the
memorandum he had received from an experienced engi-
neer acquainted with Lancashire conclusively proved that
the cotton operatives could be employed with great ad-
vantage in reclaiming waste lands, in making roads, in
drainage works, and a variety of useful labour. And the hon.
member for Cheshire (Mr. Tollemache) was at present em-
ploying a number of the cotton operatives in improving his
estate. He had obtained an equally satisfactory memoran-
dum from the brother of the hon. member for Leeds, who
was also practically acquainted with the wants and resources
of the cotton districts. The Central Committee in Manches-
ter had also made various suggestions, showing how the
operatives could be usefally and profitably employed in a
variety of works in towns. Notwithstanding the ignorance
imputed to him by the hon. member for Carlisle (Mr. Pot-
ter), he had secured information from men of intelligence
well acquainted with Lancashire. The reports under the
Local Improvements Act showed that 25 of the places which
had borrowed money under it had only partially executed
the works, and in 18 places nothing had been done. This
was because labour had been a few years ago so scarce in
the country. There was ample opportunity for extending
improvements. It appeared under these circumstances that
it would be a waste of time to direct a commission to go
down and inquire into the suit able class of works on which
to employ the workmen, With the view that the works
might be begun immediately, the Government had deter-
mined to request a gentleman employed under the Health
of Towns Act and the Local Improvements Act as civil en-
gineer to proceed at once with several other engineers to
these districts, and examine what works might bo com-
menced at once, what were the difficulties incident to enter-
ing upon them, and what was the number of men to be em-
ployed thereon. He thought that this inquiry would not
last more than three weeks, and the works could be then en-
tered on. About 70,000 men would be fully employed in I
carrying out these works. He thought that the Govern.
ment were right in proceeding to action immediately, and
upon the report of gentlemen being received, which would
be very shortly, the workmen would be employed without
delay.

Colonel PATTEN approved neither of the motion nor
the amendment. Emigration, to whatever extent it might
be carried, would only apply a very small measure of relief;
whilst a Royal commission would not afford more informa-
tion to the house than it already possessed. There was no
doubt that the resources at the command of the relief com-
mittees would not enable them to go on maintaining 400,000
people for any lengthened period, supposing the present i
state of things to continuo; in fact the balance in hand was
such as to require the immediate attention of the house and
the Government to the question how employment was to
bo given to prevent their utter demoralisation. The total
amount of subscriptions, including £680,000 raised under
the poor law amounted to £2,735,600, of which there had
been expended £1,853,319; and the balance. remaining to
the credit of the Central Fund, the Bridgewater House and
LiVerpoel ,Funds, and ha tlag lauds of the local committees,