The Sun.
London, England, 1839-03-08 00:00:00

STATE OF IRELAND.

Mr. SHAW. in rising to bring forward the motion
of which he had given notice, for the production of pe-
pars with respect to the state of Ireland, said he eel
been forced to take his present course because there was
no allusion whatever to the present state of Ireland in
her Majesty's speech from the Throne.---(Hear, hear.)
Urileis he was sure that it would throw an air of ridi-
cule over a matter which he thought should be dis-
cussed most gravely, he would have asked that that small
paragraph, which alone related to Ireland, should have
been read by the Clerk. It simply set forth that Corpora-
tions were essentially necessary for the interests of that
country. Now he. would ask whether it was possible that any
part of her Majesty's subjects—he would ask either
side of the House whether they could be contented
with a mere paragraph to that effect., at a time when
in that unhappy country there was security neither for life,
person, nor property—when the laws were set at open de-
fiance. Civilisation itself could scarcely be said to exist. in
a portion of that country. He had framed the return for
which he proposed to move with a view to present to
the House and the country a true picture of the state
of Ireland. The extent of crime and outrage which
prevailed there—the causes that had produced the
evils that had affected that country—and as inseparalJy
connected with them, the conduct of the Irish Govern-
ment, particularly during the administration of the
Marquis of Normanby. He thought he should be
I able to satisfy the House for the necessity of such
returns ; as he would show that the returns with which
Ithe House had already been furnished were incorrect,
insufficient in extent, and in many respects delusory.
First, with respect to the returns from the Clerk of the
Crown and the Inspectors of Prisons—the returns from
those two officers professed to be the same, but there
was a remarkable discrepancy between them. They
both professed to return the number of persons tried
and convicted. Now what was the real fact ; lookin
at the returns made in 1837, the Inspectors
of prisons reported 14,804 criminals, while the Ci,rk of
the Crown reported their number to ba 27,340, the
difference was 12,924 ; and in 1836 there was a differ-
ence-30,000 returned by the Clerk of the Peace, and
the Inspector of Prisons returned 23,241, a difference
of upwards of 6,000. The returns, therefore, were
so inaccurate that they could not be relied upon.
but in
.Ireland the number of offenders tried bore a s ere
small proportion to the number of offences. Therefore
he (Mr. Shaw) bad, in the first place, moved for Re-
turns of all the crimes committed in Ireland during the
last four years. These were very imperfect Returns, and
for a very small period of time, of outrages ; and his
objection to those returns was, that they merely gave
the returns made to the Constabulary Office, which did
not include many important places—Dublin, for instan
for which there was an item of 2,800 prisoners—.and these'
ret urns did not show the remarkably small proportion which
offenders tried bore to offences committed. But he had
a more serious objection to these returns—that they were
in many respects delusive, and the Noble Lord (Mor-
peth) had been himself deceived, and had been the means
of deceiving the House. In 1837 the Noble Lord moved
for returns of outrages for five months from September
1837, the object upon the face of the :document being
to show the diminution of crime in 1837, from what it
was in 186, and the numbers given were in 1387-739;
and 1836-1,760. But the Inspector-General had af-
fixed a note to the return of July, 1836, stating that, by
new arrangements, which had been adopted, there
would be excluded from the returns in future many
trifling cases, such as larcenies and common assaults.
The amount of crime according to the returns in July,
1836, was 509, while, looking at the returns for the pre-
vious month, they amounted to 1,864, making a great ap-
parent diminution in crime ; no reason was given for
this diminution, no explanation was offered of the returns.

Lord MORPETH—What returns do you refer to ?

Mr. SHAW—A return made on the 17th Ae,
18:37. Again, looking at aoother return that Gras
l with the
e
e u't, a great
capw.mi
eur,:amptnrd:
tbel r
en,oe
r,
fn
of
cot
explanationt
olfhdBmeli3mBpJa3i
diminution.
trnaiodnontdafh;
ogaeargailciivaBtorii
it3teimhelStiee.:
n—terrir pirbtaestetsptirilwel cor:ofsw(sm:lflit
without
ejleorsss;rm,
ith the Da-
;me a )parent
diminution of crime ; in fact, not one of the pa Hers but
contained the same defect—not one of them c
one word in explanation, according to the note of Colonel
Shaw Kennedy—not one of them stated that June,
1836, was the last month of the old system.—(Hear,
hear.) If tue Noble Lord would allow him to take
the returns in the same manner as they were made up
for 1835, he Would prove to the House that there bad
not been the slightest diminution of crime in Ireland.
He would take the returns for eighteen months, and
compare the averages they gave. The result of the first
six months of 1836 was an average of 843 offences ;
the second period, the first six months of 1837, gave an
average of 904 ; the third period, which was only the
last five months of 1837, the average had risen
to 1,980.--(Hear, hear, hear.) Again, the returns
of the rewards offered by the Lord Lieutenant for
murder and aggravated offences was 519, and it vas a
remarkable fact that out of the whole only the odd 19
had been claimed.—(Cheers.) The sum offered was
24,8341, while sums claimed as rewards amounted to
only 1,0001. With respect to 1838 there was no
complete returns, and of course for that. year he
could only speak from general information, and
such information as he had been able to col.,eet,
but certainly that information was sufficient to satisfy
his own mind, and if the house would allow him to
trespass for a short period on their attention, he would
also be able to convince them. lie would show at all
events that there had been no diminution of Frimeeither
as against the person or property. He had information
of not less than 114 murder:, with the description and
particulars of each, committed in Ireland in 1838, and if
be was to conjecture he should say that he had not re-
ceived an account of half that had taken place.__
( Hear, hear.) In Tipperary he had been able to
collect from scattered information that in the North
Riding alone of that county (about half the county) in
1838 there were no less than 265 aggravated outrages.
In four months in both Ridings there were committed
161 aggravated outrages, besides that, there were n
less than 20 murders occurred in Tipperary within the
la 4 six months, and 27 attempts to commit murder in
the same period. From the special commission it ap-
peared there were 13 murders and 3 premeditated at-
tempts at murder. In the first nine months of 1838
there were no less than 178 persons committed to pri-
son charged with homicide in that county, and in West.
ineAth from 28th November last to '2d February, ther,
were no less than 5 murders and attempts to murder,
The Tho Hon. and Learned Gentleman then proceeded 't
o
road several letters he had received from Magistrates
showing the state of crime in that county. in '
ford (as we uiderstood), the committals in 1830
-.negrn-
-434 ; in 1839 they were 1,136. In 1834
only one murder or manslaughter in that county
1839, at the Spring Assizes, there
abuset h e
Lord
~e r
ci werethat
the other offences in proportion. ' Now
regardl
ii,d
become to thehe pfarsohpieornt y LNoI
toLorton,--it
Nobleman
id'n;