The Sun.
London, England, 1863-05-08 00:00:00

for sometime been a member of that house, and many hon.
members could hardly fail to recollect the meritorious way
in which he performed his duty. (Hear.) NI Christie
was a g,ntleman and a man of honour, and he , a eatisfi d
that no man could justly question his ver ,i, t. (Hear )
He knew nothing of Mr. Webbe—(taught :;- • nd with re-
gard to his letter, it was no doubt treated - Earl Russell
with the disregard it merited. (Hear.) Hi, such a letter
been written by a British diplomatist he was sure his noble
friend would have dismissed him as a person unfit to hold
such a responsible post. Mr. Christie simply carried out
the orders sent him by the Government, and he had reason
to believe that the informati n supplied to the hon. member
for Lincoln with respect to the alleged ill feeling against
Mr. Christie was grossly incorrect. (Hear, hear.) It
was not the province of a body of traders to decide upon the
conduct of the representative of a Government, but that of
the Government who sent him there. (Hear, hear.)
After a short discussion the motion was negatived with-
out a division.

PRISON MINISTERS BILL.
On the motion for going into committee,
Mr. R. LONG rose to move that the house " do not re-
solve itself into the said committee until that day six
months ;" and said that he was justified in taking such a
course by the strong feeling which had been manifested
against the measure. Without any attempt at organising
opposition there had been between 400 and 500 p tihons,
signed by some 50,000 persons, presented against the bill,
and arno.ig them was a petition from the corporation of the
City of London. In the first place, he was desirous of ask-
ing the Government what the grievances were which it was
proposed to redress by this measure. The grievance, as he
understood it—although he denied that it was a grievance-.
was put in this way, that it would be a hardship if they
were the members of a Protestant rity living under a
Roman Catholic Government, and that, if some persons of
their persuasion were in prison, they should not have a paid
chaplain of their own persuasion. But, if it was a grievance
hat Roman Catholic prisoners in the gaols of this country
had not a paid chaplain to minister to their spiritual neces
cities, it was one which resulted from the nature of the con-
stitution under which they lived. As long as the Esta-
blished Church was put forward as the exponent of truth
and morality, he did not see how the grievance could be
remedied. If they were once to depart from the present
principle, let them see the extent to which they might be
carried. According to the provisions of this bill, v herevei
there was a sect, no matter how objectionable its tenets,if a
suffiJient number of its members were in any prison of the
country, the Government would be compelled to provide a
chaplain of that persuasion ; so that they might have a chap-
lain of the Mormonite persuasion—a thing abhorrent to the
principles of the English constitution. He also wished to
ask the Government whether they had counted the cost of
the measure to the ratepayers of the country. They could
not stop at the appointment of chaplains, but must also pro-
vide chapels and all the paraphernalia necessary for con-
ducting the ceremonies of the Roman Catholic Church
with proper solemnity. It would likewise be necessary
to provide schoolmasters and schoolmistresses ; and if the
Government were once to take a step in that direction, he
could not see, if they provided religious aid for criminals,
how they could with any thing like consistency refuse to
provide spiritual aid for the poor Roman Catholics out of
prison. (Hear, hear.) With reference to the remarks made
on a former evening by the right hon, gentleman the mem-
ber for Buckinghamshire (Mr Disraeli), he should say that
he did not think there were any "popular rights" endan-
gered by opposing the present bill. The Church of Eng-
land had taken her stand on a broader foundation when 300
years ago she had shaken off the Church of Rome, and,
later again, when she freed herself from German theology.
He asked all Protestants, both Churchmen and Noncon •
formists, to oppose the bill, because there was no grievance
sufficiently urgent to require the contemplated change. If
this bill passed, it would open up similar demands for the
appointment of Roman Catholic chaplains to pauper lunatic
asylums, unions, and workhouses—(`sear, hear)—and he
considered delay essentially necessary to give the country
an opportunity of really understanding the magnitude of
the proposed alteration.
Sir L. PALK seconded the motion, and in doing so he
made no apology to Roman Catholic members, because he
had no intention of treating it as a religious matter. It
was a sound and good principle that every prisoner con-
fined in the gaols of this country should have the best eccle-
siastical advice and assistance it was possible to confer on
him, and in that he fully concurred. He differed from the
right hon. gentleman (Mr. Disraeli) that a great principle
was involved, or that it was a step in the progress of civil
and religious liberty; and so far from either one or the ether
being involved in the bill, it appeared to bear on its face a
compromise between contending opinions. Hear, hear.)
If a great principle was involved, he thought the bill
should not be a permissive bill, to be worked by an irre-
sponsible body of men who did not represent public opi-
nion ; but be made a general measure, and carried out on
the authority and responsibility of the Government. It
was, he repeated, a miserable compromise to place on the
hands of magistrates in quarter sessions that power
which the Government were afraid to use, and of throwing
upon them the odium of taxing the ratepayers, who were
already overbnrthened with local taxation. (Hear, hear.)
Every one in that house a Twitted that of all the contesis
that took place these religions discussions were the most
painful ; and, whilst they deprecated those constant acri-
monious disputes and quarrels between Churchmen and
Dissenters anti Roman Catholics and Protestants, they were
about to inflict the nuisance on the county magistrates of
England. (Hear, hear.) Year after year they were plac-
ing in the hands of the magistrates powers which they did
not formerly possess of taxing the people without being re-
presented, to an extent that was assuming a magnitude that
was attracting the attention of the country at large, and it
the principle contained in the bill were adootea, Roman Ca-
tholic chaplains must be appointed to reformatories, poor-
law unions, workhouses, and lunatic asylums, which would
greatly increase the present heavy amount of local burdens.
(Hear, hear) The Roman catholic priest is this country
was as highly educated and as honourable a man as the
clergyman of the Church of England, and they would not
have any right to make any difkrence in the amount of sa-
lary paid to each of them. To what extent therefore were
they prepared to carry this principle? and it would be well
for them to consider what sum it would be necessary to
raise to work this bill. He thought there was great incon-
sistency in the conduct of the Secretary of State for the
Home Department in bringing in this bill when it was con-
sidered that he had dismissed the Roman Catholic chaplain
trom Dartmoor convict prison, anu had withheld his rea.

sons tor so doing.
Mr. MORRITT, as a new member, claimed the indul-
gence of the house whilst he offered a few remarks in
support of the bill. There was not a more thorough-
going Protestant, nor one more attached to his religion,
than he was ; and it was because he saw no new principle
in the bill, or anything to be afraid of, that he suppot ted
it. (Hear, hear.) He was surprised at the argument that
had been urged against the b. I—that because Roman
Catholic prisoners did not send for the priest, th•-retore he
should not be sent to them. It was because they did nut
send for him that it app-ared to him the priest should be
sent to them. He had no such puerile ideas that the bill
would undermine the Protestant Church—(hear)—and with
regard to the other argument, that if they appointed Roman
Catholic chaplains they could not refuse to appoint Mor •
monite chaplains, and every other description of chaplain,
he reminded the house that the appointments would be
under the control ef the magistrates, and it was not likely
that they would make such appintments as those he had
referred to. The opponents of the bill had forgotten that
regula ly-paid Roman Catholic priests were appointed to
our military hospitals—and, as a soldier, he could say that
he had never heard any disagreement between the Homan
Catholic priest and the Protestant chaplain in a regiment,
but, on the contrary, they harmonised well, ane were 'he
best of friends. (Hear, hear.) At present ev.-ry Roman
Catholic prisoner had a right to send for a Roman Catholic
priest ; and he thought it was much better to pay one to
attend to the spiritual wants of all the Roman Catholic
prisoners, than for a number of Roman Catholic priests to
be running about the place, like a flock of sheep, looking
for the par icular prisoner who had sent for him. (Hear,
and laughter.) A ttoman Catholic priest was sent to a
Roman Catholic crnvict prisoner when under sentence of
death and on the verge of eternity ; but who was able to
say that he, as well as our prisoners, was not on the verge
of eternity? and therefore he considered it was their
boun ten duty to provide those p-isoners with spiritual
instruction. The admission of Roman Catholic nriests to
„ur gaols could not in any way undermine the Esta-
blished Church; and, in showing a proper liberality and
goodness of feeling towards their Roman Catholic
brethren, they would strengthen rather than weaken the
Church of England. (Hear, hear) He considered the
payment of the prie is ought to be made by the Go.
vernment, and not out of the pockets of the rate
payers.
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had
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been
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they
r urged
rd wouldsiaoguabs tien ablelastatthtoe bill that difficulties
would arise in appointing. a Roman Catholic priest to pri-
son where there were only three or four Roman Catholic
prisoners confined. Where that was the case the magis-
trates could say to the Roman Catholic priest, If you, choose
to attend those gentlemen—(laughter)—go in, and they
could pqr him according to his work. (Hear.)
Mr. KENDALL looked upon the bill as the mistake of
the session. It was a great mistake on the part of those
who support it to do so because it was a Government bill,
and it was a greater mistake than all that it had received the
isnuptphoartthoofutsto,saenwn
htohewcheraemcpaiolln, a
called the
ehCponrosetervstaatnivt reelleiagdioents.
(Hear.) The feeling outside the house was very strong
against the measure, and great astonishment was felt that
it should have received support in that house. There was
a bid on both sides—or it looked so ranch like a bid, that
those who had not the means of knowing to thethecon'ta
were suspicious of it—to obtain certain support in that
horury
(Hear)
He held the bill to be a mistake.
As a sree.
of toleration simply to suppl measure
y the spiritual wants of the
Roman Catholics, he should be the last man to oppose it ;
but he did not look upon it in that light, but rather as a bill
of peril to the Protestant religion. The bill not only en-
couraged Roman Catholicism, but it would use actual com-
pulsion to discourage Protestantism, and on that ground he
should avail himself of every legitimate means of upsetting

Mr. G. DUFF said that, as the majority of the Scotch