The Sun.
London, England, 1839-08-07 00:00:00

A ...

EVENING EDITION.

bring offenders to justice. Such a charge had not been in the
least substantiated. Indeed, he had been informed from
authority, that such an admission had been tended to the Com-
mittee, and he trusted to the candour of the Noble Earl to
make the admission, and when such was the case the Govern-
ment could not be said to be deserving of censure. He thought
the people of England would review the whole course of the
Government, and would rather direct their attention to the
general state of the country—they would be more inclined to
look to the general results. They would look to the grounds
of the decrease which had taken place in the military force
of 2,000 men, which they had been enabled to space from Ire-
' land for the exigences of England.—(Loud cheering.) He
hought they would take this view of the question, and would
consider the reduction of the military force of 2,000 men more
than an equivalent to the 240 men whom he had released
during the course of three years. The Noble Earl on that oc-
casion alluded to several individual cases—he had mentioned
the county of Clare, and had stated that in that county it was
impossible to procure a conviction. Now, according to the evi-
dence of Mr. Tomkins, it appeared that convictions were never
more easily obtained, and that no homicide had taken taken
place in that county within the last ten years for which a
conviction had not been obtained.—( Cries of " Hear, hear.")
The Noble Earl had also alluded to Reynolds, who
had been examined as a witness before that House,
and the Noble Earl had asserted that he had been murdered
in consequence, and that the Government had not attended to
the application of Mr. Nagle for force, and that this murder
had been committed in consequence. Since that time the per-
son charged with the murder had been tried, and it was proved
that Reynolds was the aggressor—that he had entered this
man's house and attacked him with a drawn sword—that all
that the man had done had been done in self-defence ; and so
evident was this that not only had the Judge stopped the case,
but the Counsel for the prosecution had given it up, acknowledg-
ing that it was impossible for him to proceed with the case.
He had mentioned this in order to show to their Lordships the
impropriety of alluding in this manner to cases which were
not ripe for investigation. He had now given his reasons
why he thought their Lordships were not justified in
adopting these resolutions. With respect to the first, they
were not likely to attain their ends. A% ith regard to the two
last he had given an explanation of his c induct ; and he was
happy to find that none of their Lordships had cast any
.impu-
tations on his motives. He had the consolation of reflecting on
the results of the conduct which he had pursued, and it was
impossible that it could have been so very injudicious when its
result had been to retard the course of crime. Under these
circumstances he left his defence in the hands of their Lord-
ships, feeling that they would not 'be justified in passing this
vote of censure on him ; or if they should do so, he would
appeal with confidence to the verdict of his country.—(Load
cheers.)
Lord WHARNCLIFFE rose, but immediately gave way to
Viscount MELBOURNE, who would not have risen to ad-
dress their Lordships had he not felt imperatively called upon
to do so—more especially when he saw the Noble Chairman of
the Committee had risen for the purpose of addressing their
Lordships. That Noble Lord was much better acquainted with
the subject than he was. In fact, he should not go very deeply
, into the evidence—in fact, he was unacquainted with the greater
portion of it, as he had not had time to make himself ac-
quainted with it. This subject had been most fiercely and ve-
hemently urged on their Lordships' attention by the Noble and
Learned Lord ; notwithstanding, he had been urged, in justice
to the cause which he professed to advocate, and in justice to
the persons concerned, not to press this question forward to a
decision. He had been appealed to not to press this ques-
tion forward by many of their Lordships, and the injustice
of the course he was pursuing in so doing had been
pointed out to him.—(Cheers.) The circumstances of the
case must, however, have been sufficiently manifest to their
Lordships. He had begun his statement by stating the anxiety
under which he laboured in bringing forward this question,
which deeply connected itself with party interest and with per-
sonal feelings—feelings both of a political and a personal cha-
racter. His Noble and Learned Friend had said, that if his
own former character and conduct were not a sufficient guaran-
tee to their Lordships that he was not influenced by motives of
a party or a personal character, the manner in which he would
introduce the case to their Lordships' notice would be that
guarantee, for he would not bring forward this motion ih any
manner as an attack on the Government, or any of those con-
nected with it. What consideration the Noble Lord's former
life and conduct might deserve from their Lordships, it was not
for him to determine, but with respect to the other
guarantee, he did not think that of any value. He had intro-
duced his motion by a speech more bitter, more inveterate,
more vehement, and more criminating; than any he had ever
heard—( Cheers and laughter)—criminatory not only of his
Noble Friend, who was in the House to defend himself—( Hear,
hear, hear)—but criminatory in the highest degree of other
Gentlemen who were not present, whom he had represented as
criminal in the highest possible degree, and whom he expressly
charged with the greatest possible delinquency. If they were
to decide questions of such magnitude and importance, it was at
least necessary they should decide them calmly, and upon ma-
ture consideration, but above all, upon sufficient information.
Were they to crime to resolutions moved upon arguments of the

most criminatory nature against the charas.cter of high judicial
officers who were not present—it was surely necessary that they
should come to such a decision upon some more certain grounds
than the declamation of his Noble and Learned Friend—upon a
better acquaintance with the evidence upon which the charges
were founded—a more full investigation of the real facts of the
cases, and the grounds upon which they stood, than their Lord-
ships had been able to give. He wished to put it fairly to
their Lordships whether they could pass those resolutions with-
out more consideration of the evidence upon which they were
supposed to be founded. It was not only necessary that they
should have time to consider the evidence, but also to hear the
explanations of the parties implicated, before they affirmed re-
solutions of such a violently criminatory nature, and introduced
by a speech even more criminatory. With respect to the man.
ner of striking Juries he had not had time to make himself
master of the subject, nor did he think any of their Lordships
were in a better position, except those who formed the Com-
mittee. He thought it was hardly necessary to resolve that the
prerogative of mercy should be exercised only after due inquiry
and deliberation, as an abstract principle, or that cases ought
to be referred to the Judge. These were truisms—that was the
usual mode of transacting criminal business, and much more
constantly in Ireland than in England—such was the case ac-
cording to his experience. The question however was, whether
under the circumstances the course taken with respect to Chief
Justice Doheity was justified or not ; and he was net prepared
to say so from his non-acquaintance with the evidence. His
opinion was that the resolutions were unnecessary. He was not
prepared to deny any of the general principles laid down by
his Noble and Learned Friend : indeed some of them were
he should say quite common place.—( A laugh.) Not meaning
to deny any of these principles, but not having sufficient in-
formation—not having sufficient grounds to act upon, he felt it
his duty to move the previous question. His Noble and
Learned Friend had spoken with great vehemence, and he
would add with great injustice upon that occasion. He said
the Government had incurred the same responsibility as his
Noble Friend because they had completely approved of hi%
conduct; undoubtedly they had done so, and he would read to
their Lordships the approval of a man in whom probably the
House would have more confidence, at all events his Noble
and Learned Friend must have confidence in it—he was going
to quote from the 3d vol. of the speeches of Henry Lord
Brougham.—(A laugh.) (The Noble Viscount read a long
extract in which the policy of the Marquis of Wellesley, and
the Marquis of Anglesea in Ireland, was much praised, and the
Marquis of Normanby was said to be pursuing the same manly
and impartial course.) He did not wish to quote that passage
for more than it was worth—( A laugh)—but it was pretty
strong approbation—(Cheers, and laughter)—of the general
conduct of his Noble Friend—it was quite as strong as the
Letter of Lord J. Russell, and was spoken a year afterwards,
yet all that was said of a Government who were now charged
with having pardoned a man, because he was the brother of a
Priest, and most improperly put another upon his trial, because
he was a Protestant. Not being master of the question, it was
impossible for him to go into it in such a manner as would be
necessary, in order to make an impression—therefore his only
object in rising wus to put their Lordships in possession of the
course he would feel it his duty to pursue, and which he would
advise them to follow. His Noble and Learned Friend had
concluded with a splendid eulogium upon justice—part of it he
had heard before—he believed it was Sheridan's eulogium upon
the freedom of the press—( A laugh)—but he thought that
those who talked of the virtues of justice ought to exercise
them, yet his Noble and Learned Friend asked their Lordships
to adopt a motion which violated every substantial principle upon
which justice was based.—(Cheers. )
Lord WHARNCLIFFE would have been very glad to have
rested the whole case upon the speech of his Noble and Learned
Friend, but the Noble Marquis had charged unfairness on the
Committee. The Noble Lord proceeded to defend the Com-
mittee, but in so low a tone of voice as to be inaudible in the
gallery. The Noble Marquis complained that Baron Penne-
father had not been called. The Government were informed
of all the evidence that was taken from day to day—why, then,
did not they call for the Baron to give them any information in
his power? He might have said the Government had alwaye
been courteous to him, but would that exculpate them for fining
a black spot upon the character of the Chief Justice Doherty?
As to the case of Gahan, there had been no answer—the
memorial ought to have been returned, and the Judge ought
not to have been called upon to produce his notes in such a case.
He considered that the course that had been adopted by the No-
ble Marquis on the exercise of the prerogative of mercy in Ire-
land was extremely uncalled far and improper. He would
admit to the Noble Marquis that he had no corrupt motive in
what he had done, but he thought the prerogative of mercy
oughtthe
Governmento be differently
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not been attended with that vigour which ought to have cha-
racterised them. The Noble Lord concluded by defending the
Committee for the aspersions that had been thrown outagainst
them.

Lord PLUNKET could not conceive the necessity that!
existed for bringing forward at the present period the resolu-
tions which had been introduced by the Noble and Learned
Lord. Re could not conceive upon what ground the Commit-
tee had entered into these parts to which the resolution re-.
ferred, and had totally passed by the question of ribbonistn.
The resolutions proposed by his Noble and Learned Friend,
were so long, so intricate, and so important that, that however
high in talent, and rich in information his Noble and Learned
Friend might be, he (Lord P.) trusted their Lordships would
not commit themselves to that perilous navigation to which
his Noble and Learned Friend would commit them. In the
first resolution which alluded to the forfeiture of recognizances,
he apprehended his Noble and Learned Friend was proceeding
upon mistaken views. The law of recognizances had been)
changed in Ireland—and as it formerly stood it cer .tZnly was
absurd. The process by which the party was bound was
estreated, the recognizances then passed into the Court of Ex-
chequer, by whom the warrant was sent to the Sheriff of the
county, who sent it back again to the Court of Exche-
quer. But amidst all this proceeding, the Sheriff
only took care to levy as much as would pay
his own fee each time.—(La.ughter.) But now the warrant
proceeded at once from the Court to the constabulary ; all t.)-,0
mummery under the old system was done away with. if the Noble and Learned Lord wanted to remedy thepresent' ystem,
it could be done, in his opinion, more effectually soy 'Act of
Parliament. The second resolution complained that the_prac-
tice of setting aside jurors had been dispensed 'with. When
he (Lord P.) had the honour of beir.g the Attorney-General
under the Marquis of Wellesley, he made a regulation that no
juror should be set aside on account of his religion, and that
rule had been acted upon by his successors. Sir M. O'Loghlen
had done no more than Mr. Blackburne, yet his Noble and
Learned Friend had confined all his censure to the former.
Lately a Roman Catholic priest was convicted before a jury in
the county of Cork, consisting of six Catholics and six Pro-
testants, of inciting a man to swear murder against another.
This This proved the safety of the present system. T
Marquis had only used file prerogative of the Crownn iohn.dmeailninogr
mercy to criminals imprisoned for the commissio
offences. It certainly was the proper mode to, consult the
Judges who tried a prisoner, before his sentence
. was remitted.
Chief Justice of t' •
When he had the honour to be
klad been
Common Pleas, be and another Noble atiniednLeLarnovde.dLLieerud,enant,
consulted by the Marquis of Angles?,
about the remission of the sentence
They(: two men who
sentenced for manslaughter. advised itg,r4i-nst a re-
mission ; but the Noble Marquis, nevertheless remitted the
sentence, and he (Lord P.) dared to say, very jr,stly._( Hear. )
His Noble
Friend had tried it as all experiment; he had suc-
ceeded;
ind be (Lord Plunket)__ congraulated him and the
country on the results. I!e had never known Ireland to be in
such a tranquil state as it now was. The statement which
his Noble and Learned Friend had made of the nature of the
prerogative of mercy was not quite correct. Mercy was the
highest prerogative belonging to the Crown. It was undoubt-
edly, like every other prerogative, to be exercised only by re-