The Sun.
London, England, 1863-03-24 00:00:00

THE RIVER SHANNON.

not without hope that the two Governments may be enabled
to come to an undeNtanding in the m9tter.

THE BUDGET.
The CH. NCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER gave
notice that he intended to bring forward the financial
statement of the Government on Thursday, the 16th of
April, that being the second Government day after the
recess; it nut being usual, on account of the pressure of
business, to submit the financial statement of the Govern-
ment on the first Government day after the usual Easter
recess. (Hear, hear.)
TOBACCO DUTIES BILL.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER also inti-
mated that, in the event of this bill being reported this
evening, as he apprehended it would be, he should ask leave
to move the third reading at half-past four to•morrow, so
that the bill might be sent up to the House of Lords and
passed into law before the Easter holidays. (Hear, hear.)
THE GRANT TO THE VOLUNTEERS.
In reply to Captain GRAY,
Sir G. LEWIS intimated that the conditions on which
the grant agreed to by the house would be allowed to volun-
teer corps were in a forward state, and would very shortly
be laid before the public.
GREECE—PERSONAL EXPLANATION.
Mr. B. COCII LUNE said some observations which he
had made in the debate the other night on the affairs of
Greece had, it appeared, given offence to the friends of Mr.
Scarlett. He wished therefore to state that during the
recent events Mr. Scarlett had been placed in a position of
great difficulty, and had shown greet zeal, discretion,
and judgment in the discharge of his duties. It
was also the opinion of the Greek gentlemen with
whom he had been acting that both Mr. Scarlett
and Mr. Elliot had by their appropriate conduct
added very muchito the admirable conduct exhibited by the
Greeks during the recent events. (Hear.)
POLAND.
Mr. HENNESSY rose to ask a question of the First
Lord of the Treasury as to the nature of the obligations
with respect to Poland involved in the Treaty of Vienna.
The hon. gentleman referred at some length to the corres-
pondence between the noble lord at the head of the Govern-
ment and Lord Heytesbury in 1831, on the affairs of Poland,
iu whiuh. the uvblo Lou). (rehneietoo) intimated he had
great reliance in the " benevolent intentions" of the Czar.
The time had long gone by when he (Mr. Hennessy) or others
could repose any confidence whatever in those " benevolent
intentions." The treaty of Vienna clearly implied that
Great Britain would be justified in using warlike means to
enforce the provisions of that treaty, so far as Poland was
concerned, in the event of moral means having utterly
failed, as they had. Since the debate a few nights
ago it did not appear that the Government
had done anything ; indeed they had been treated with
great forbearance by the house. Since the 27th of February
the insurrection in Poland had greatly extended, and he
knew from authentic sources that many of the statements
put forth by the newspapers with respect to the disasters
that had attended the insurgents were utterly devoid of
truth.

Colonel FRENCH a;lreciiheSecretary to the Treasury
when Mr. Baternan's report on the river Shannon would be
laid before the house ?

Mr. F. FEEL replied that the report in question had not
been delivered to the Treasury. When the report was in
the hands of the Government, he should lose no time in
laying it on the table of the house.
THE INNISKILLEN DRAGOONS.

Captain AItCHDALL asked the Secretary of State for
War whether the attention of the War Department, or of
his Royal Highness the Commander-in-Chief, had been
called to a recent court martial held on the Paymaster of
the Inniskillen Dragoons; and to the remarks of
the Commander-in-Chief in India on the proceed-
ings of s id court martial, and on the state of the
regiment; also to certain allegations which had
been made in the public press and elsewhere as
to the confinement in close arrest, and death of Regimental
Sergeant Major Lilley, of the above regiment; whether
any inquiry had taken place, and what had been the result
of such inquiry? It appeared, he added, that the death of
his sergeant major arose from an excessive use of ardent
spirits rather than from confinement.

Sir G. C. LEWIS replied that the attention of his Royal
Highness the Commander-in-Chief had been directed to the
case to which the hon. and gallant member had referred.
A special report had seen called for. This report had very
recently been received. As yet, however, the War-office
had not come to any decision upon it,
CONVENTION WITH THE UNITED STATES.
Mr. S. FITZGERALD asked it her Majesty's Govern-
ment had accepted, or were prepared to accept, the propo-
sal, stated by President Lincoln in his annual Message to
have been made. to them by his direction, respecting the
establishment of a convention between this country and
the Government of the United States, in order to examine
and adjust complaints of the violation of neutral rights ?
Lord PAL ME R STO N—Mr. Speaker, communications
have passed between the two Governments with regard to
making such an arrasgement. Her Majesty's Government
have no objection to the principle on which the convention
is proposed to be conducted, but difficulties have arisen in
regard to details, and have not yet been renewed, but I am

1861-2, It was not wise in time of peace to go on increasing
these warlike establishments. The hon. member complained
also that no satisfactory balance sheet was ever furnished, so
that their cost, which was enormous, was never reallyknown.
Gen. PEEL expressed his regret that a regular debtor
and creditor account was not furnished with regard to these
establishments. With respect to the large rifled guns now
coming into use, ho believed the last report of the number
manufactured was up to March, 1862, at which time the
number was 1,935, of which about one-third were heavy
guns of 1101bs. and upwards. It was evident from the ex-
periments made within the last few days that guns of larger
calibre must soon be made, and he should like to see (if
there was no objection to it) some return laid before the house
of the probable number of guns that would be required for
the defence of the whole country. There might be a good
objection to stating the precise armament of a particular
fortification, but he did not see any inconvenience in such a
general return. It was clear there must be a large increase
next year for those heavy guns.
Mr. NEWDEGATE complained that the accounts had
never but once been laid before the house in the form ordered
by the resolution framed upon the report of the small arms
committee.
Sir M. PETO hoped that a stop would be put to the ex-
pensive and unsatisfactory system of Government becoming
their own manufacturers in all departments, when what
they require could he better supplied by the numerous re •
spectable contractors of this large country. At all events,
he trusted that the Government would take proper precau-
tions against a repetition of what had happened in regard
to the Armstrong gun manufactories. Immense sums of
money had been supplied by the nation to establish them,
and Sir William Armstrong had been appointed to super-
intend them, and it was supposed that the Government
were prepared to manufacture all the rifled artillery that
would be required. All at once Sir William Armstrong
retired ; the Government paid him a large sum for his
machinery ; and, being well supplied with plant and mate-
rials, he had started afresh, at the head of an establishment
capable probably of making guns for all the world. (Hear.)
With respect to the reduction in the vote for the present
year, he admitted it was considerable, but he quite agreed
that there must evidently be a large increase for the next
year. T-Te hoped tho hen- member would divide the home
upon the motion.
Sir F. SMITH was of opinion that the vote might be
safely reduce I by the amount mentioned, but thought it
would be very inconvenient for the Government to have to
trust to private trade for everything it wanted. That re-
mark was especially applicable to gunnery, which private
traders were not in the habit of supplying.
Sir G. C. LEWIS said there were two reductions in the
present year of £433,000 and £698,000 ; but, as regarded the
future, he could not undertake to furnish estimates for years
which had not yet arrived. Ho felt confident that, for the
amount he had named, adequate provision would be made
for the present year in guns and stores, and that sufficient
would be left in the magazines to prevent any risk of the
service being crippled. He did not admit the justice of
those statements which went to show that better warlike
Viscount PALMERSTON—The hon. member gave
stores could be obtained from contractors than from the
establishments at Woolwich and elsewhere. From all he
notice of a question very short and very simple, but he did
could learn on the subject, he arrived at the conclusion that
not give notice of his intention to go into a dissertation as
men of the highest skill were at the head of the several
to the relative prospects in Poland of the Russian army and
those who were in resistance to that army. I will not fol- factories, and that under no other system could the country
be better or more economically supplied. He was satisfied
low him throughout that dissertation, nor say anything
that no advantage would arise from giving up the manu-
facture will imply an opinion as to the probable result of that
facture of projectiles, shot and shells, and of iron ordnance
contest. Everybody has an equal means of judging upon
the subject. When the hon, gentleman on the former occa- in the Government factories. With regard to the objec-
tion of the hon. member for Gresham (Sir H. Willoughby)
sion mooted the question, as to the obligations of the treaty
that the accounts were not well kept, however that
of Vienna, I understood him as implying there was in the
might have been the case in former years, the objec-
treaty of Vienna an obligation on the part of Great Britain
tion no longer applied, for the accounts were as full and
to make war to interfere forcibly in the affairs of Poland,
complete as could be desired. It was also asked what seen-
My answer was, that there was no such obligation. There
is a right, if you see fit to exercise it ; but there is no en- rity there was for the stores, to which he replied that each
gagement entered into by Great Britain by that treaty person was chargeable with the articles furnished to him,
and such person was called to account for every article in
which imposes the obligation of interfering by force to give his possession ; and every year a survey was held at all the
her interpretation to the terms of the arrangement of that stations, in order to ascertain the condition of the stores. In
treaty. To that interpretation I entirely adhere. I main- addtion to this, every fifth year stock was taken,when every
tale that this is the just exposition of the effect of that single article was counted; and this rule applied to foreign
treaty. I said that where a treaty between different Powers stations as well as to those in the United Kingdom, and he
does not contain an express stipulation to guarantee, on the was prepared to give an account, for example, of every arti-
part of any or all of these Powers, any particular arrange- cle in store in the lonian Islands, He came lastly to the
ment established by the treaty, there is a right in each of the proposal for reducing the vote by the sum of £2,000 in the
contracting parties to enforce the arrangement if it thinks column of " Establishments," upon the fact of the office of
fit, but there is no obligation, unless it is expressly stipu- Sir Wm, Armstrong being vacant; but it did not follow,
fated. But the hon. member changes his ground. He because an office was vacated, that there was to be economy
talks now of moral obligation ; and, instead of its being a on that account. At the same time, he admitted that some
moral obligation to interfere by force of arms, he, by the reduction could be made, and he had a plan under conside-
quotation he has made from a despatch of mine toLord Hey- ration which he trusted would effect a saving ; and he also
tesbury, shows that the interposition which is there contained contemplated the appointment of a military man as an in-
was a totally different matter from that which he urged on a spector of artillery at Woolwich. He trusted that after this
former occasion. He quotes a despatch from myself to Lord explanation the hon. member would not press the small re-
Heytesbury, in which I say, " the insurrection being over, duction.
and the Russian Government having re-established its Sir J. FERGUSSON thought, notwithstanding the ex-
authority in Poland, his Majesty's Government in planation of the right hon. gentleman, the committee would
fulfilment of the obligations contracted by them by the be of opinion that they had no real control over the estimates
treaty of Vienna, would proceed to represent in friendly relating to these departments. The right hon. gentleman
terms to the Emperor of Russia considerations as to the had adverted to the large reduction in stores, but this fact
arrangements which he would make upon the establishment proved that the vote of last year must have been greatly in
of a temporary Government in Poland." That is a you excess of the requirements of the country. The committee
different obligation to what I understood the hon. gentle- might be well assured that if this proposition of the right
man to argue on a former occasion. That obligation was hon. gentleman was adopted, the system of inspection would
fulfilled in the sense in which it was quoted, because the cost a vast deal more than £2,000 a year.
British Government did on that occasion make friendly re- Mr. MONSELL said that the proposition of the right
presentations on behalf of the Poles to the Emperor of hon. gentleman was an attempt to make a complete re-
Russia, urging what they thought was fitting for the Em- volution in the system adopted in the manufacturing
peror to do, both with regard to the obligations he had con- establishments in 1855. Had that system failed ?or had it
tracted by the treaty, and with regard to what was just and been, in the production of articles against which no com-
right towards the Poles themselves. Now in that sense I plaint had been or could be made, a complete success?
accept the interpretation of the hon. member, and when the He ventured to affirm that it had been a success, and that
proper time comes to lay before this house the papers show- nothing could be more absurd and monstrous than to change
ing what has been done and what is doing, the house will a system which had worked so well. Under those circum-
see that, so far as any obligation lies on the British Govern- stances, he asked the committee to pause before they cone
ment to make a friendly representation to the Emperor of
cursed in the- change.
Russia on behalf of the Poles, that has been fulfilled. Now, Colonel DUNNE differed totally from the last speaker
with regard to the question as to the communications going as to the working
of the present system. The Government
on between the French Government and the Government were doing well to reverse a policy which had not worked
of her Majesty with respect to the manner in which any well during the Crimean war.
representation shall be made, lam sure the house will feel Sir G. C. LE WIS said nothing had surprised him so
that it would not be useful, if it were fitting, to enter into much as that his modest proposal with respect to an alte-
details as to that which is now passing on that subject. But ration at Woolwich should have met with condemnation
when the hon. member reproaches us—and me especially— in that house. That it should have been condemned by
with not having, during the Crimean war, consented to the heads of the department of Woolwich Seemed perfectly
agree to a proposal—if such a proposal had been made—to natural; but that hon. gentleman who had the control of
transfer the seat of operations from the Crimea to Poland, the public purse should meet with censure a proposal for a
I think the decision of her Majesty's Government was the simple inspection of the articles pr oduced in Government
only rational and sensible decision we could have come to. factories at Woolwich did seem astonishing. With regard
The war began upon a Turkish question ; the war began for to the carriage and laboratory departments, the system was
the purpose of preserving Turkey from invasion and attack that the persons who were charged with the conduct of
by Russia. We were, in conjunction with the French Go- those establishments inspected the produceof their own
vernment, engaged in securing the independence of Turkey.
manufactories. Though he was not
The war began upon a quarrel between the French and Rus- prepared to say that
sians about a Turkish matter. The French began the qnarrel any serious inconvenience had arisen, the committee must
see that it was a system which did not contain within itself
in which the war originated, therefore France was not the
the elements of perfect control—(hear)—and that a time
party enti lea to ask us, before that security had been ob-
might arrive when serious practical inconvenienience might
tained, to relinquish a common enterprise and to embark in occur. (Hear.) 'With regard to the gun factory he be-
another undertaking which was totally unconnected with
lieved there had been some imperfect external inspection,
the origin and cause of the war. I contend, therefore, that
but it had amounted to very little. His proposition was
we acted wisely and properly in saying, "Let us accom-
not a revolution such as the hon. gentleman had described,
i plish what we have begun, namely, the protection of Tur-
key, and then let us see whether there is any ground for nor did it contemplate an additional expense of £30,000 or
£40,000. All he asked was to be allowed to take £2,000 a
opening a fresh dispute with Russia as to other and wholly
year saved by the resignation of Sir William Armstrong,
distinct matters." I say that upon that occasion we were and he would undertake that the whole of that sum should
justified in the course we pursued of continuing what we not be exhausted by the system of inspection which he
had begun, instead of suspending operations in order to em- proposed. He trusted therefore that the committee would
bark in a totally different matter. With regard to the still support the original proposal.
earlier period of 1831, there were at that time considerations
which induced us to decline to enter into obligations which After a few words in reply from Sir 11. WILLOUGHBY,
might lead to very serious difficulties between this country the committee divided,
and Russia. We did make the the representations which The numbers for the amendment being 45
Against it
the hon. member has cited, and although, unfortunately, 941
ajority
they were not attended with the effect we wished, we did
M —49
all that we could diplomatically do ; and I beg the house to The vote was then agreed to.
bear in mind that the hon. gentleman now confines his in-
. ngs, exclusive of the manufacturing departments. The next vote was one of £810,241 for works and buil.l-
terpretation of the treaty of -Vienna to this—that we are i
under an obligation, as far as Poland is concerned, to inter-
On this being proposed,
fere diplomatically on the part of the Poles. lam convinced Mr. CHILDERS asked for explanation on the subject of
that we have done our duty, and I trust that any effort we the new barracks at Chelsea, for which a vote of £47,000
have made will be found to be attended with favourable re-
was asked this year. The hon, gentleman also complained
sulfa to the interests of the people of Poland,
of the further charge of £22,000 for Colchester Barracks,
when, both last year and the year before, the house had
INFANTRY AND CAVALRY OFFICERS. been assured that nothing more would be required. He
On the motion for going into committee of supply,
Colonel NORTH moved that the house, to-morrow, re- also made a similar complaint in regard to the new works
at Gibraltar and Malta. The extra expense might possibly
solve itself into a committee to consider an humble address be necessary, but some explanation ought to be given,
to be presented to her Majesty, praying that she will be
showing what the money was wanted for, (Hear, hear.)
graciously pleased to give directions that the same com- Colonel NORTH complained of the dreadful state of the
mand pay shall be granted to officers commanding regi- barracks at Eastbourne, where there was a building that
merits of cavalry as is now given to officers commanding had cost £5,000 fitted up for 130 men, without closets or
regiments of infantry, conveniences of any kind, and the arrangements for the
Sir G. C. LEWIS admitted that there was an inequality g
night were so disgusting that he would not trust himself to
in the pay, and promised to rectify it in next year's votes. I describe them.
The motion was therefore withdrawn. Mr. WILLIAMS spoke of the extravagant items for new
CHINA. works in the colonies, especially in Australia, Ceylon, and
the Mauritius.
Col. SYKES asked the Under Secretary of State for
Foreign Affairs whether the statement a General Burgo- Sir F. SMITH called attention generally to the loose way
in which the War Department were going on, spending
vine, respecting the causes of the late mutiny of the
Chinese drilled troops, published in the Friend of China of large sums in unnecessary works, such as the £lO,OOO for
the 17th January, 1863, had been received at the Foreign - refacing the masonry of the Tower ditch wall (a fortress
office; together with the protest of all his officers, 45 in now almost useless for anything but a store shed), and
number, against the attempt of the Chinese authorities to giving no satisfactory explanations to the house.
obtain his head by the offer of 50,000 taels, or for his secret Sir 11. STRACEY adverted to the necessity of making
apprehension, and threatening to resign if he was mur- some provision for the defence of the roadsteads of Great
dered ? Yarmouth, and moved that Great Yarmouth should be
Mr. LAYARD could give no other answer than that of included among the great commercial harbours of the
the other evening. It appeared that greatly exaggerated country.
statements had reached this country. For instance, he Mr. MASSEY ruled that the motion could not be put, as
never could
late horrible believe
cre tbaof rebels .h t Englis o
(Hear, hear,)fficers were present at a it was virtually a motion for increasing the estimate.
The house then went into committee on the Sir G. 0. LEWIS said, in answer to the question of the
hon. member for Maidstone as to the excess in the expen-
ARMY ESTIMATES.
diture over the estimates for barracks, he could enly give,
The first vote proposed was a suns of £956,365 for the as a general reply, that it unfortunately happened estimates
manufacturing departments, and for the manufacture of were not unfrequently inaccurate, and especially when these
warlike stores, to which an amendment was moved by estimates referred to buildings in which changes of inten-
-I'rH.
S WILLOUGHBY, that the vote be reduced by the
tion often occurred, and consequently changes of plan ; but
,
sum of £2,000, being the amount of the salary at the dis- he could assure his hon. friend there was no intention to
posal of the committee from the resignation of Sir William r deceive with regard to the barracks at Chelsea. As to the
Armstrong. If Sir William Armstrong had not resigned t appropriation of Worley Barracks, they had been converted
he should have moved this reduction, because it was a into the Indian depot. As to the fortifications at Halifax
wise and reasonable one, and also with a view to call the and St. John's, they were rendered necessary by imperial
attention of the committee to the costly nature of these considerations. With reference to the vote for the Matiri-
establishments. The hon. member proceeded to show tins, he admitted he stated last
year that no further votethat during the last nine years the cost of the menu- would be required ; but he learned from Sir John Burgoyne
facturing establishments had increased from £15,500 to that the works wore not completed, and he had accordingly
something like £30,000 a year. He moved this reduction to apply for £15,000 now, and would have to ask for a fur.
also on the ground that it was expedient to limit the range ther vote of £34,000.
of these establishments, and go back to the expenditure of Mr. BAXTER complained of the practice of votin
I

t money for colonial fortifications, and urged that in the case
of self-governed colonies, in particular, the cost should be
borne by themselves. He moved the reduction of the vote
by £lO,OOO on that account.
Mr. HALIBUILTON said that most hon. members had
heard of Paganini and his wonderful fiddle; it had only
one string, but on it he played many tunes, The hon.
member for Montrose was more fortunate, for the Scotch
fiddle be was so fond of schitching—(oh, oh, and laughter)
—had two strings—subsidies to steamers and colonial forti-
fications. He played upon them every session; but the
fact was that some of the colonies he mentioned had no for-
tifications at all. He thought it ill-advised that such dis-
cussions should be repeated every year.
Mr. A. MILLS should vote for the motion of his hon.
friend the member for Montrose. They had spent two
millions upon the fortifications of Bermuda, and they
never had a force there sufficient to resist the attack of
two French frigates. They had no power to man the for-
tifications of the colonies, and insufficiently manned fortifi-
cations were only traps. Their navy was the'only proper
defence for the colonies,
Mr. DODSON opposed the motion. He agreed that
England should trust to her naval supremacy for the protec-
tion of her colonies, but fortified places in the colonies were
absolutely necessary for the use of the navy to retire to for
provisions, coals, and repairs. (Hear, hear.)
Colonel NO WM opposed the reduction.
Sir G. C. LEWIS said the vote had been set down by the
, Government at the very lowest possible sum which was
likely to be sufficient for the defence of the places without
being extravagant. He went through the various items to
show how small they were separately.
After a few words from Mr. Childers, Mr. Baxter, and
Mr. Butt, the committee divided—
For the reduction of the vote
Against it
Majority
The vote was then agreed to. On the vote of £172,201
for military education,
Col. NORTH called attention to the system of marks
adopted at Sandhurst for good conduct. He contended that
those marks ought to take precedence of all other marks on
examinations, and fi h n 1 d bo than taken into account.
Sir G. C. LEWIS said there was a difficulty in giving
good conduct marks a proper examination value, but he
would take the matter into his consideration.
After some discussion on several items contained in the
aggregate sum, the vote was agreed to. The vote of £85,441
for surveys of the United Kingdom and topographical de-
partment was agreed to, as was also the vote of £88,135 for
miscellaneous services.
Sir J. TRELAWNY wished to know what was the rule
with respect to the appointment of staff officers.
Sir G. C. LEWIS said that the rule was that staff
officers should only be appointed for five years. There
were only three officers on the staff who had not been
re-appointed if they remained on the staff more than five
years, one of whom was the commander-in-chief.
The vote was agreed to.
The following votes were also agreed to : £25,933, rewards
for military services ; £72,782, pay of general officers ;
£464,895, pry of reduced and retired officers; £172,157,
widows' pensions and compassionate allowances ; £32,843,
pensions and allowances to wounded officers ; £33, 776 in
pensions; and £1,142,702 out-pensions, On a vote of
£144,964 for superannuation allowances,
After a few words from Col. Dowrin and Sir G. C,LEwis
the vote was agreed to.
The vote for £32,786 for the disembodied militia was then
agreed to and the house resumed.
SUPPLY.
On the motion that the report be received,
Sir J. FERGUSSON remarked that when the army esti-
mates were brought up, the right hon. gentleman (Sir G.
C. Lewis) had stated that there were but 40,000 bayonets in
the country for the defence of the whole kingdom. The
embodied militia, yeomanry, and volunteers naturally felt
that that remark was a sort of slur upon their efficiency.
Sir G. C. LEWIS that ho had said—but, if he had not,
he meant to have said—that he was only referring to the
regular army. He was sure the house would acquit him of
any intentional disrespect to those most useful bodies of
men. (Hear.)

MARINE MUTINY BILL.
The house then went into committee on this bill.
Mr. WHITE moved that the 28th clause be expunged.
The committee divided—
For the clause
86
Against
31
Majority.... —ss
Mr. COX then moved that clause 39 be omitted.
The committee divided—
For the clause
Against
Majority for the clause .. —7s
The bill then passed through committee.
MUTINY BILL.
This bill was read a third time.
TOBACCO DUTIES BILL.
This bill, as amended by the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer, was considered and agreed to. The third reading was
ordered for to morrow (this day), at half. past four o'clock.
TELEGRAPHS BILL.
The house went into committee on this bill.
In reply to Mr. POVELL, with reference to clause 6,
Mr. M. GIBSON said that he would take care to have
the bill reprinted with the amendments before the third
reading.
The clause was then agreed to.
On clause 7,
Mr. BLACKBURN moved an amendment to the effect
that no telegraph wire should be placed under any street or
road except with the consent of the local authorities.
Mr. M. GIBSON said the provision under the clause was
similar to that contained in the general act regarding pub-
lic works.
Mr. HENLEY did not wish that a corporation, where it
existed, nor the trustees of a turnpike road, should have
the absolute power of stopping the telegraph ; but he
thought they should be heard. He should therefore sup-
port the amendment.
Lord A. CHURCHILL supported the clause.
Mr. M. GIBSON could not give his consent to the
amendment.
A short discussion ensued, in which Mr. Blackburn, Mr.
Henley, Sir J. Shelley, and Lord A. Churchill took part.
Lord HOTHAM said that powers had been given to tele-
graph companies which ought not to have been ever granted
to them. (Hear, hear.) He had been on a committee last
year which refused powers to a telegraph company, but
another committee which sat subsequently granted to
another company the very powers which his committee had
refused to the comp .ny whose bill came before them.
Mr. R. MILLS said that he was the chairman of the se-
cond committee, and he should say that they had delibe-
rately granted those powers. They were not surreptitiously
obtained.
Mr. BLACKBURN said that he was in the hands of
the committee.
The committee then divided. The numbers were—
For the amendment
Against it
Majority
The clause was then agreed to.
On clause 8, relative to the notice to be given to public
bodies for laying down wires underneath public roads,
some discussion ensued.
Mr. DALGLISH moved that the notice should be ex-
tended from 14 to 28 days.
Mr. M. GIBSON accepted the amendment, and the
clause in that shape was agreed to.
Clauses up to 12 were then agreed to, when,
On the motion of Mr. MACKIE,
The Chairman was ordered to report progress and the
house resumed.
VACCINATION (IRELAND) BILL.
Sir R. PEEL moved the second reading of this bill,
which he said was framed to meet points in which the bill
of 1851 had failed. The bill assimilated the law in Ireland
to that of England in making vaccination compulsory.
The whole expense to the 163 unions in Ireland would not
exceed £3 16s. Bd, each,
After some discussion the debate on the motion was
adjourned.
The house adjourned at ten minutes past one'oclock,