The Sun.
London, England, 1863-03-25 00:00:00

SALMON FISHERIES (IRELAND) BILL.

The adjourned debate, on the motion for going into com-
mittee, was resumed by

Mr. CONOLLY, who opposed the bill, on the ground
that it would entirely unsettle the value of property which
had been purchased in the Encumbered Estates Court, and
otherwise all certain privileges secured to the owners by
the act of 1842. He admitted that there were evils
in the present system which he should be happy
to see remedied, but the measure of the honour-
able member for Wexford (Mr. M'Mahon) was of far too
sweeping a nature, and would utterly destroy property of
the annual value of £lOO,OOO. The fisheries in all the rivers
in Ireland were in a good and progressive state, and the
interference with them proposed by this bill would be
wanton and unjust. The hon. gentleman submitted
statistics in support of his assertion. Many important rights
held without dispute from time immemorial would be now,
for the first time, abrogated if the bill was passed into a
law ; indeed, it could not be passed without the insertion
of a clause to afford compensation to those whose property
in the fisheries would be damaged. It was a curious cir-
cumstance that cot and rod fishers had increased, and they
were the parties who would be most benefited by the bill.
The hon. and learned gentleman had evinced great assi-
duity fn bringing the subject forward, and as he could not
possibly desire to commit injustice, he ventured to suggest
that he should consent to the amendment, and thus have
the bill referred to a select committee, so that the rights of
the landowners and others might be properly investigated
and determined.

Col. WHITE suggested that it would be well to refer
the subject to ten Irish members, who, he doubted not,
would be able to frame a bill which, probably, the Govern-
ment would not be indisposed to adopt. (Hear, hear.) In
order to afford the hon. and learned gentleman an oppor-
tunity of adopting his suggestion he begged to move the
adjournment of the debate (Divide, divide.)
Mr. LON GF lELD supported the bill on the ground that
stone weirs and stake and bag nets, so many of which were
permitted by the Act of 1842, were a violation of the rights
of the public, and, besides, materially tended to destroy the
propagation of fish. The legislation of 1842 was hurried,
and the erroneous course then taken should be at once cor-
rected by the passing of the present measure. The Law
Courts had over and over again asserted that the use of
these " infernal machines"—for so he was justified in styling
these Irish traps—was opposed to the law, but the owners
were too 'powerful to be dispossessed by the poor people
whose livings were thus taken away by them—
the cry of the poor peasant against the peer had not pre-
vailed. The rights of the people of Ireland in these
fisheries could not be safely left to the Treasury benches,
for hon. members thereon knew nothing about them,
and besides some of them like the hon. and gallant
member (Colonel NV bite) were interested in the fisheries ;
so that the poor fishermen and the public had little to ex-
pect except from the House of Commons in its collective
capacity. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. M`DONNOGH said the question was a very im-
portant one to the nation at large, and should be treated in
a judicial spirit. He had no personal interest of any kind
in the subject before the house, save the protection of the
salmon fisheries of Ireland for the service of the public,
and after listening to all the speeches delivered during the
two debates he had deliberately arrived at the opinion
that it would be best to refer the bill to a select committee,
for investigation should precede any further legislation.
Many of the fl-hery rights, which would be destroyed by
this bill, had existed for hundreds of years, and been often
sold and resold with the land on which they abutted. These
rights could not be destroyed without compensation being
afforded to the owners. The subject should be approached
without temper, but with a desire to deal fairly between all
the parties interested. A fair compromise would doubtless
be acceptable, and it would be well that a measure dealing
with the subject should be conducted under the auspices
of the right honourable baronet (Sir Robert Peel). e
quoted figures to show that the export of salmon
from Ireland had materially increased during the last two
or three years. He deprecated the introduction of per-
sonalities into these debates, and held that the assertion
that men of the highest honour and fame who had seats in
the various committees which had investigated this sub-
ject bad all been actuated by personal motives was en-
tirely untenable, and, moreover, unjust. (Hear.) The
balance of all testimony was in favour of past legislation.
He denied that the laws of England and Scotland with
respect to salmon rivers could be applied to those of Ire-
land, on account of their great dissimilarity. (Divide.)
Mr. ESMONDE supported the amendment to refer the
subject to a select committee, not with the view of creat-
ing delay, but simply on the score of justice, and in the
earnest hope that the subject would be properly tat en up by
her Majesty's Government, and brought to a satisfactory
termination with the least possible delay.
Mr, GEORGE considered that the bill, if passed, wrull
commit a series of acts of spoliation. The law was, how-
ever, in a state of ccnfusion, and it was the duty of the
Government to bring in a measure that would be acceptable
to all parties. The present bill would not work justly.
Lord FERMOY stigmatised the conduct of the hon. and
learned member (Mr. Longfield) in impugning the motives
of the living and the dead for the part they took in past
legislation. It was exceedingly bad taste to attribute cor-
rupt motives to hon. members connected with these fisheries.
There were several eminent lawyers in the former commit-
tee who would certainly not bear an unfavourable compari-
son with the hon. and learned member. (Hear, and
laughter.) The bill of 1842 was a compromise, and was
not passed in a hurry, but after much examination by a
committ e up stairs and full discussion in that
house. (Hear.) It was said that the committee of 1842
did not take the evidence of the parties interested ; but the
fact was, that none of the parties connected with the fishing
interest expressed a desire to be examined. The fact was,
that all parties had the utmost confidence in the committee.
If, as was said by some hon. members, stake and bag nets
were illegal in the rivers and estuaries, why did they not
put the law in force instead of seeking a new one, Let the
hon, and learned member for Mallow (Mr. Longfield)—if
he had faith in his own interpretation of the law—begin
with the Shannon. He had the means, and he was sure
ho did not lack the courage. The bill before the
house would not, in his opinion, increase the quantity of
salmon. A compromise would be the best mode to adopt
in this business, and this could only be properly effected
by the Government. By good legislation they could have
in a few years 100 salmon where there was but one now.
(Hear.) He implored the Government, therefore, to take
the matter up. On a re-assurance of this kind—that as a
Government they would deal with the matter—he would
withdraw his amendment. All rational people in Ireland
would support the Government in legislating in this wisp
on the matter.
Mr. WHITESIDE hoped the debate would take a prac-
tical turn. It was the object of both sides of the house to
produce as many salmon as possible. What should they
do? A select committee would be a tedious affair. He
ventured, therefore, to suggest that the right hon. baronet
(Sir R. Peel) should, during the recess, address himself to
the bill, so as to endeavour to render it acceptable to both
sides of the house when they meet again after the holidays,
(Hear, hear.)
Sir H, BRUCE hoped the Government would take the
bill in hand and reconstruct it in the way:suggested. But it
not, that the noble lord (Lord Naas) would take the bill out
of the hands of the hon. and learned member for Wexford
and bring his great experience in connection with the Go-
vernment of Ireland to bear upon the question. (Hear,
hear.) The measure, as it stood, was most objectionable,
and would, if passed, confiscate many ancient rights.
(Divide, divide.)
Colonel VANDELEUR avowed himself es a proprietor
of the lower Shannon, though he derived little advantage
from it, and deprecated those attempts year after year to
wrest property from persona, the ownership of
which had been confirmed by Acts of Petrie...eye
If they had in any way violated the.
elo) was not
appeared, i :rhowleetvetrs,
provisions be rigidly enforced. is
that the hon. member for Mallow e
so disinterested in this matter as ho
appeared to desire
should
pr
should be believed, because not long since he gota petition
throughesented to the house praying that aroad might beknocked
the Duke of Devonshire's estate at Lismore,
which would have greatly benefited the hon. and learned
member. (Hear, hear.)
Col. DUNNE said they were wasting their own time
and that of the country in these discussions. (Hear.) No
progress had been made. It would be well to refer the
matter to a committee composed partly of Irish and Eng-

lisb. members, as suggested by the hon. and gallant mem-
ber (Col. White.)
Mr. HA.SSARD rose amidst cries of " Divide." It
would be well, he thought, to adjourn the debate in order
to give time to consider what would to the best cause to
adopt with respect to the measure.
Mr. MONSELL agreed with the hon. and gallant mem-
ber who last spoke. No measure, to be effectual, could be
passed during the present session without the aid of the
Government. Would the right hon, baronet take charge of
such a bill ?
It now being a quarter to six o'clock, the discussion
was broughz to a close, and the debate, according to the
rules of the house, was adjourned until to-morrow.
WEIR NAVIGATION & SUNDERLAND DOCKS
(STAMP DUI lES ON PROXIES).
The house then went into committee, and the bill was
ordered to be reported.
PARTNERSHIP LAW AMENDMENT BILL.
This bill, on the motion of Mr. SCIIOLEFIELD, was
ordered to be referred to a select committee.
The luclosure Bill was read a third time and passed.
The house adjourned at 10 minutes to six o' clock.

SPORTING INTELLIGENCE—This Day.

NORTHAMPTON RACES.—Tins DAY,
BY ELECTRIC TELEGRAPH.
RACING STAKES.

1

Dunkeld
Golden Dust
King of Utopia

Six ran.
QUEEN'S PLATE,

Asteroid
Oldminster ..
ALTHORPE PAKK STAKES.

Molly Carew .. 1
Midnight Mass
Queen Bertha ..

Seventeen ran.
LATEST BETTING.
CHESTER CUP.
12 to 1 agst Dunkeld (taken)
THE DERBY.
_ _

25 to 1 agst Melrose (taken)
40 to 1 agat Dankeld (taken)