The Sun.
London, England, 1863-02-06 00:00:00

ter, would be in an efficient end complete state. The cola
nial expenditure, we are sometimes told„ wab greater than
that now, but in the days of the bake of Wellington we had
not the empire we now possesq; we have some colonies now
we did not possess tbeh, and the colonial expenditure was,
I believe, greAter than now, for those considerable ehangeb
in the go'7ernment of the colonies which had ?ad to the re-
duction of the expenditure heti not occurred. Therefore he
had a great army cm.d hay to maintain our establishments
:Abroad and cur 'colonies. But yet he was a frugal Minister,
because he did not follow a diplomacy of intrigue—(hear,
hear)—tecause his policy was a truly conservative policy—
a policy, not of sensation and surpris?, which suits, no
doubt, continental nations, where public opinion only takes
in the consideration of external affairs; but a policy of in-
trigue and a diplomacy of sensation and surprise are not
necessary for a country like England, where liberty andin-
dustry occupy the energies and minds of the people, and
where we are blessed with a government rooted, deeply
rooted, in the affections of the country and supported by the
traditions of centuries. But until they have arrived at the
point clearly to understand the inevitable connection of a
restless policy with a large expenditure 1 shall be very scep-
tical as to the permanent character of any reduction. But
it is necessary clearly to understand this—do not let it be
supposed, because you advocate a frugal and economic ad-
ministration of the public funds, you are opposed to the
maintenance of the efficiency of the public services or those
establishments which are necessary. Well, we are to receive
these papers upon Denmark, Italy, and other places. 1 will
wait until they are before us—certainly before I will touch
on the subject of Denmark. I may say I think, with due
humility, that Denmark is a subject I am not entirely igno-
rant of. In 1848 I took the liberty of bringing the subject
of Schleswig-Holstein before this house, and I was sup-
pox ted at least by the sympathy of the present Secretary
of State for Foreign Affairs, and I think, if I remem-
ber aright, by a speech from the noble lord the First
Minister of the Crown. 1 will not venture to introduce
the subject on this occasion, but, not being entirely igno-
rant of it, I will venture to say of the Schleswig-Holstein
question that it is one which all understand and which none
can explain. (Laughter.) Who could have supposed, then,
that in the late autumn, the Foreign Secretary, being in
Germany, and, as we all hope, finding the relaxation which
after his labours he required, and which none, I am sure,
will grudge him, should have thought it discreet and neces-
sary to revive this interminable question, when there are
many other points in Europe generally which might occupy
his attention, and that he should have thought it necessary
to write a dispatch into the merits of which I will not now
enter—(laughter)—supporting a policy apparently contrary
to the policy which he favoured when he was the most
responsible Minister of the Crown, and which, I understood,
, was supported by the noble lord who succeeded him. On
the question of what has occurred at Rome I suppose we
must have some explanation ; but I must in self-vindica-
tion remind the house that, two years ago, having to speak
upon our relations with Italy, I did suggest that the settle-
ment of the Romish question was not one that was so easy
as some hon. gentlemen appeared to think—that the ques-
tion of the residence of the Pope was not to be settled off •
hand ; that it was one equally interesting to Protestant and
Roman Catholic States, and peculiarly interesting, as it has
always been held to be by our great statesmen, to the
United Kingdom. But I ventured to say it would lead to
controversies and misunderstandings as to the country in
which the Pope should take his permanent residence. What
was said by the noble lord, who was then a member of this
house ? We merely imagined contingencies which prahably
might never occur. Not 24 months have passed, and we
find the Roman Catholic and Protestant Powers in active
competition on this very subject—(laughter)—as to the
country where the Pope should reside, and the power and
influences under which he should remain. I leave it to
another occasion to advert, if necessary, to more im-
portant considerations connected with this matter, but I
feel it right to recall those remarks which I once made to
show that they have been completely justified by the event.
I take it for granted that something will appear in the
papers which will explain, or at least mitigate, the almost
intolerable absurdity of the position, as it at present ap-
pears to impartial observers. (Hear.) I give the Govern-
ment credit for their consistency; and no doubt some infor-
mation will be laid on the table which will remove from
them that surplusage of absurdity that at present seems to
attach to them. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) The noble
lord, in this mellow harvest of autumnal indiscretion—

(laughter)—was not content with disturbing the waters of
the Baltic, but he appears to have been very active in the
the Mediterranean; and here, again, we have arrived at a
point on which information may be expected from her Ma-
jesty's Government. There have often been controversies
respecting the policy of the noble lord the First Minister;
very different opinions and descriptions of it have been
given ; and of course the noble lord must be subject to that
criticism which all eminent persons allow when their con-
duct is concerned. Sometimes the foreign policy of the
noble lord is called a " spirited" foreign policy; sometimes
it is called a " turbulent" policy ; sometimes the noble lord
is described as the " incarnation of Liberalism ;" and some-
times he is denounced as the " ready tool of any despot,"
provided the despot is powerful. (Hear, hear.) I suppose
I shall have some information in a few days respecting the
incredible proceedings which, within these last few hours,
have come to our knowledge in our relations with the Bra-
zilians. There is one point on which the noble lord is for-
tunate not to be misunderstood ; there is one point in his
career upon which there never have been two opinions. All
sides, at all times, have given him credit for being a con-
sistent, a determined, and a most able supporter of the
independence of the Turkish empire. The noble lord has
not only maintained that it was of the utmost political im-
portance to this country that the integrity and independence
of the Turkish empire should be maintained, Lut he has
gone much further, and wisely, in his position. He has
maintained that the resources of Turkey, with fair play, are
amply sufficient to maintain that integrity and indepen-
denee without the assistance of foreign nations. But the
noble lord was supposed by some to take even an exagge-
rated view of this question. He opposed with warmth and
ardour the undertaking of the French to penetrate, by a
canal, the Isthmus of Suez ; the noble lord thought that
that was an enterprise that was dangerous to the Turkish
empire. To use his own expression, it cut the territories
of the Sultan in two, and he, therefore, exerted himself to
oppose the project. The present Secretary for Foreign
Affairs differed from the noble lord—he was for penetrating
the Isthmus—and he gave expression on that occasion to
opinions which were considered quite heretical by those
who follow in the noble lord's wake, who are
in favour of maintaing an independent Turkey. There.
fore, when the Government was newly formed,
when the noble lord elected as Secretary of State
for Foreign Affairs the very statesman who was supposed to
differ from him in opinion to a great degree on this cardinal
question of modern politics, the existence of the Turkish
empire, there was alarm and anxiety among some who share
the opinions of the noble lord the First Minister. But in
the course of the extraordinary autumn, an opportunity oc-
curred for the noble lord the Secretary of State for Foreign
Affairs to relieve the public mind of Europe and of this na-
tion from all anxiety on the subject, and he had an oppor-
tunity which probably no minister has had for a consider-
able time of expressing, in the most formal manner, the
policy of the Government upon the vital question, the main-
tenance of the Turkish power and the general disposition of
political influence in the Levant. It so happens that, shortly
after the house rose, there occu-ed in Turkey a series of what
I should describe as artificial insurrections—that is, they
were got up by foreign agents, who were paid by foreign
money, that was, patronised by foreign governments.— one
in Servia and en important one in Montenegro. These were
put down—notably that in Montenegro—by the Porte with
great power and sufficiency; and the Minister for Foreign
Affairs of Russia, who was supposed, I dare say quite un •
justly, to have been the enthusiastic patron of the Princeof
t\lontenegro, generally wishing to cover his retreat, ad-
dressed a despatch to our Government in which he com-
a tnhye
nS
ouol
et as
ani t y had
to exacted
r
fprloami n ehdi
rno.f
It hdeonhta rthd
intekrmthserwehwicash
that despatch, but of course that is a matter of taste, and a
secretary is not a monster who omits an opportunity of
writing a letter. (Laughter.) He did answer that despatch ;
he answered it conclusively upon the important point of
complaint, because he did not think that the terms were
different from those which any power under the circum-
stances would exact. He also took that opportunity of en-
tering into the whole question of our policy with regard to
the Turkish empire. I think all temperate men, all men
who are anxious for tranquillity in the Levant, as being of
European interest, are certainly in favour of maintaining
ral4
eefsitrhee is
Porte
in that country existing authority, and at the same time
thatce d
consistentswhiothuldthaet lea beliefst
bea
that
progress,inthe s u bje cand,t
for all we know, eventual independence. But the
lord the Secretary of State was not at all satisfied
with these moderate opinion
in his despatch as an absolutett'alandaltle lays it down
alternative that the Tur-
kish empire must be maintained, Or
enter
re subject races,
Sclavonians and Greeks, will
upon inter-
necine struggles, if only for cutting each other's
the countries will be divided, and
evaithe threats,
will
probably lead to a general war. That Was trerot ito II
the Government; and not satisfied with this, thrit3tnisleounleyf
four months ago—the 27th of September, 1862, is the date of
the noble lord's dispatch—the noble lord says to these poor
Sclavonians, representing many millions of industrious per-
sons, and to the Greeks, " You Sclavonians, and Greeki
especially, have got what you call great ideas, which you
want to carry into effect, which aim at terminating your
allegiance
to the Porte, and ultimately reviving the Greek
we never will
empire. These are views tolerate; they must
endnot only
which
end in general disaster, and they are views
butwhich will
will lea to the destruction of the Porte,.
Well, now sir, who
subvert every other Government."
could suppose that only a few weeks after this revolution
occurred in Greece the Greeks should have requested to be
allowed to elect an English prince for their Sovereign? Of
course it would be inconvenient to enter into a discussion
of this subject now; and from what I learn from other
quarters it is one that will occupy the attention of the
House of Commons at a subsequent period. We are in-
formed in the Speech from the Throne that the diplomatic
engagements of her Majesty's Crown, together with other
weighty considerations, have prevented her Majesty from
yielding to the general wish of the Greek nation. But if
diplomatic engagements prevented the acceptance why
were the Greeks kept in suspense—(cheers)—most injurious
and most trying under the circumstances? Diplomatic
engagements are precise and positive, and there are not
more engagements now than there were fourmonths
ago—
(Hear hear.) That is a matter which requires
Illation, and I hope that we may receiei
that about the same time the Secretary of
I .
come.
State,infer-
is strange
opposed to creating any ideas amogst the Greeks e theo i
ex-
pansion of territory, which may lead to attacks upon key and perhaps convulsions in Europe, haveshould-
I
Tur-
key
the intention of her Majesty's Government 9 an-
nounced greatly
to increase the territory of Greece, and that in a very pecu-
liar way, by reducing the territory of her Majesty. It is
said that public opinion has decided in favour of the ces-
sion of the lonian Islands. The gradual and matured
opinion of an enlightened and enquiring people should re-
ceive the vigilant anxiety of any Minister, and should
greatly influence his opinion; but I deny that the tattle of
clubs is to be regarded as public opinion. A resolution of
this kind should be adopted only after a mature inquiry,
ample knowledge, and great deliberation on the
part of the cabinet. Public opinion says that this is ne