The Sun.
London, England, 1837-03-29 00:00:00

trail. of whom it is mo-re peculiarly placed ; the average
is umber in weekly attend ance at this school, since I was
s.-pointed curate, is front seven to ten, four or five of
svhorn were-males—the ascend school, not a quarter of a
/Mk distant from this, suworted by the rector, the master
Vrotestant, the number in attendance with him usually
:about thirteen, seven Pre testants and six Roman Catho-
lics—the third school, in the most remote end of the pa-
lish, is kept by a Roman. Catholic master, and supported
rotely by what the scholarta pay him ; in it there are three
or four Protestant childxf ..n in attendance, though the other
two schools are as nearto or not much further from their
Louses. Different causci; are assigned for thus dispersing
the attendance of the Children through the parish. It is
Trot necessary for me to state here what those causes are, '
I inquired into them, at id believe them to be known all who
take an interest in thb a improvement of the children. I
feel it, however, my dttLy to record these facts for the Kil-
dare-street Inspector, And all visitors of this school, and t'
iexpress my decided opil non tleat while the attendance con-
tinues to be so diversified, a great progress in the religious
instruction of the children cannot be expected. I trust
those observations may exc!..te a desire to remedy the evil,
and I think I may say of is rvself at least, that I will not be
the last to come forward ! And co-operate with all who take
an interest in the subject,, and endeavour to make such al-
terations as may afford ei n efficient Protestant school to the
parish which does not eri,ist at present."
It was objected to TC .e that I did not subscribe to Balli-
nacarrig school, that file sincerity of man's intentions is to
be judged of by their acts. 1 acknowledge that I did not
subscribe to it, but I . had the best reasons for not sub-
scribing to it, viz., t ;hat it was unnecessary- The mis-
tress is well paid for the little she has to do, she has twenty
pounds a year and a comfortable house. I know some
schools where there are a great many more children in at-
tendance where th e master has three times as much
to do, with a salary of not more than half that sum. I sub-
scribed where I tb :ought my subscription more wanting ;
both last year and t lie year before I subscribed to Carlow
school, and here I may retort the objection that was made
to me of judging o f men's sincerity by their acts. It ap-
pears that the Protestant school of Carlow was in debt to
the amount of 351. for its expenses during the last year,
a charity sermon w as preached for its support, and not-
withstanding the : seal, the ardour exhibited in talking
about the bible, the whole bible, and nothing but the bible
for the schools, wh at is the love evinced for it as proved
by the amount of F subscription ? The paltry sum of
thirty five pounds is' called for to teach the whole bible to
-the poor Protestant of this town, and it, could not be col-
lected in the rich ne ighbourhnod of Carlow. The amount
of subscription I hea td was only some shillings over thirty
pounds, but a hund red pounds or thereabouts was soon
collected for a politi 'cal dinner. There is a description of
-.school which I woul d suggest the propriety ,of establishing,
viz., an adult school. I have met with several instances of
Protestants among the poorer clissas about eighteen or
twenty years of at le extremely ignorant of the leading
truths of the Gospel', ; we would do well to take heed while
we contend for the -whole Bible, that we do not be- found
,more ignorant than Icy who only use part of it ; if our pri-
' vil,ege of !coding tl ie•entire be greater, so will our con-
demnation be great( r for our ignorance.
I have.now candidly stated my reasons on that impor-
tant subject, and gi'vea an account which shows at least
that I have not bee. 1. nn idle spectater, that I endeavoured
to satisfy my own mind by the practical results of the
system, and grout- fled my opinions accordingly. if the
stating of them thus publicly has the effect of inducing the
_Protestant clergy and Protestant laity to con,ider the
=otter more minut !ly, to reflect calmly and dispassionately,
not suffering the r aind to be biassed by party•feeling, intent
.only upon adopting what if good, when they discover it
to be really so, I will perhaps deserve some little credit,
and a better motive than the idle vanity of dragging
myself before th a public be ascribed to my excitiops.
13cfore I conch ide, permit me, sir, 'o refer briefly to two
.other topics ; a letter which I addressed lavt January to
the Rev. Mi. Hume, Roman Catholic Curate of
this
town, and my address to the electors of this county at the
late electioo. With regard to the former, when a coliee-
situ was about being made during the severity of the
winter, in aid of the poor, I perceived that it could no:
".ise done without its being made a party question. I feel
that every minister who interprets thn,Go.pel right, would
riot suffer any Oistinction to be wade in relievinia the pour.
When I fouad that several gentlemen had declined con-
tributing to that fund, to which the Roman Catholic clergy
oontributeo, and in the disbursement of which they took a
aait, it seemed to me to be a proper occasion for mak-
iog a few remarks relative to that grace which occupies
so compictious a place in the Gospel page. I deprecated
the es 11 esiliappy effects of party spirit in this country,
quoted a passage from a learned Protestant divine, which
is calculated to make us
,think less of our points of dif-
ference, and more of our points of agreement. it is this
—.mall is the difference of the several sects professing
Ciaist, when compared with the monstfous disproportion
I.:hick Christian belief and Christian practice bear to infi-
delity and to vice. I also quoted those lines from a hymn,
used in the ordination service of the Church of England,
which are well adapted to impress on the heart of every
minister, what one of his chief objects ought to be in that
service, to which he dedicates himself.
Of ,!rife and of dissention dissolve 0 Lord, the bands,
And knit the knotsof peace and love throughout all-Christian
lands.
and concluded in words which I understand surprised, and
I believe, shocked some. I concluded by subscribing my-
self his brollier in Jesus Christ. A course of lectures inn
since been delivered in the Carlow Church on these points,
controverted between the Roman Catholic Church and the
Protestant Church ; I hope they may have the good effec",
which were intended ; but conceiving that Protestants have
enough to do to discover the errors, weaknese and infir-
mities common to man, and when discovered, to use their
utmost diligence to correct them, I doubt, very much, the
'oeneficial icsillts. Being more disposed to concord than to
controversy, I will here quote some passages from those
%cry works which I hear quoted at the only lecture I at-
tended ; whoever reads them will, I think, admit that I
was
justified in concluding my letter to Mr. Hume, in the man-
lier 1 did, subscribing myself his brother in Jesus Christ—
that in doing so it was no injury to the religion of Jesus
as professed by Protestants—the lay champion quoted,
-who, however, happened to be a divine, a clergyman
•of the Church of England. The 'judicious Hooker, in
Lis learned discourse on justification thus speaks --
" They (that is the Church of Rome) teach as we do,
that in making man righteous, none do efficiently work with
God, but God. They teach as we do, that unto justice no
man ever attained, but by the merits of Jesus Christ ;
they teach as we do, that although Christ, as God, be
the efficient, as man, the meritorious cause of out
justice, yet in us also there is something required ;
God is the cause of our natural life, in him we live, but he
quickeneth not the body, without the soul in the body.
Christ hath merited to make us just, but as a medicine
which is made for health, loth not heal by being made, but
by being applied ; so, by the merits of Christ, there can be
no justification without the application of his merit. Thus
far we join hands with the Church of Rome." The other
work I heard quoted was the Council of Trent :
" In the sixth session this passage is found—though the
sacred writings set so great a value upon good works, that
Jesus Christ promises a reward to those who give even ii
cup of cold water to the poor, and the Apostle declares that
a trifling and momentary tribulation, suffered in this world,
shall produce an eternal weight of glory ; yet God forbie
that a Christian should confide in or glory in himself, and
not in the Lord, whose goodness towards alt men is so great,
as to be willing that his own gifts should become their

merits."
Again, in the 14th session—" we, who can do nothing o:
ourselves, can do all things with him who strengthens us
so that man has nothing in himself to glory or confide in
but that ail his confidence and all his glory is in Jesus
Christ, in whom we live, in whom we merit, in whom we
satisfy—bringing forth fruits worthy of repentance, which
have their efficacy from him, which are offered by him to
the Father, and are accepted by the Father through him."
Can any thing be more in accordance with the 11th article of
the Church of England than those two passages. But sup-
posing a difference, allowing some points not the same, does
the example of St. Paul forbid the use of the word bro-
ther ; does it forbid the practice towards all mankind, which
that word implies ; to select one instance, in a very similar
case, the Galatians acknowledged Christ to be the true and
only Saviour, but added the necessity of observing Mo-
saical ceremonies ; did St. Paul remove their names out of
the Gospel ? Oh, no, St. Paul knew and felt for the in-
firmities of man. How does he open his address to this er-
ring church of Galatia ? Thus :—" Paul an Apostle and all
the brethren which are with me unto the churches of Galatia.
Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from
our Lord Jesus Christ." He bestows on them the greatest
blessings, grace and peace ; he calls them brethren, and
directs that they should be treated Lindly, and received as
brethren. Surely then I might conclude a letter to a Ro-
man Catholic Clergyman by the use of that term without
incurring odium. When I behold those two beautiful spe-
cimens of human art, the spires of the Roman Catholic and
Protestant Churches in the town of Carlow, erected to the
worship of the same glorious Being who presides over all, T
am forced to cry out—would that the author of peace al
lover of concord may cause the two bodies of the commu
nity who worship in these and similar temples throughout
the land, to stand beside each other, doing one another as
little harm as those beautiful structures do, while each pro-
claims the majesty of Him, who has implanted the feelings
of devotion in the human hearts. I am forced to offer up this
fervent petition—would to God that all denominations of
Christians, Protestants, Roman Catholics, and Dissenters
might emulate each other in endeavouring to bring
our Isle favoured so highly by nature to the best
state of cultivation, to improve her trade, her coni-

GREAT ANTI-CHURCH RATE

Tierce, and thereby scatter 'pea ee and plenty through the
length and breadth of the land—let this be the grand
point in which the exertions of nil centre, and to promote
this. object, let us allow each other to call down the bless-
ing of the Almighty on our lalours in that manner, which
we respectively think in our consciences to be most ac-
cording to the light of revelation and reason. Let us not,
because we do net all agree exactly in that manner, imagine
that these blessings will n set flow. God seeth not as man
seeth ; he seeth the hew:a, he seeth when his own fear is
lodged there, and wlnenever he finds it, he beholds it
with a propitious setae. Now a few words in reference
to my letter to tkie electors of this county. After having
lamented and d'sprecated the evils of party spirit, many say
how inconsincent, how foolish, to send forth an address
to excite -and inflame. It may appear strange .; but I do
enainte.'en that the most likely mode of putting an end to
party spirit is to acknowledge error when we know and be-
lieve it to exist. With regard to our Church Establishment,
I trust there is no one a more sincere believer in, a more
sincere friend to her doctrines, as exhibited in the Book of
Common Prayer ; but I am disposed to change in the dis-
tribution of Church property ; to change in her external
discipline, perhaps it would be more correct- to say to the
establishment or enforcement of a discipline, for passing
events during some years prove her discipline to be almost a
dead letter. I would say, assimilate the Church of Eng-
land to the Church of Rome in the appointing of curates
and the selection of Bishops, giving our temporal head
the final approval of the selection of the Bishops ; their
mode seems to be more in accordance with Scripture than
ours, as may be gathered from the Ist chapter of the Acts
of the Apostles. Had this plan been adhered to since the
Reformation, I doubt not but the Protestant Church
would have proposed better. With respect to the distribu-
tion of Church property, am I singular among Protestants
in long thinking an alteration desirable ? I need only refer
to a correspondence between a nobleman and a bishop, the
Earl of Mountcashel, and the late bishop of Ferns, that
took place some years ago, to show that sonic thought a
change requisite. That bishop is no more. I would speak
of his memory with respect—he was an active zealous
Bishop. There is a family celebrated for what is implied
in this &stitch :
" Englaed's pride and Ireland's glory.
Was thrown into the ditch by the great ram of Gorey."
Am I too fanciful in thinking these two lines prophetical
of the cause of that crumbling in the establishment which
is visible ; a revision of parishes has been proposed ; need
I go further than the immediate neighbourhood of Carlow
to show the necessity of a revision and alteration. Here
is the town of Carlow itself, ene of the most impottant
parishes iii the diocese, with an income for the rector of
about three hundred a year. The duties of this parish
would give ample cmployent to the undivided attention
of two zealous active clergamen, their labour would be
severe, the calls upon their humanity numerous, and what
have they to support themselves and families I shall not
' say to remunerate them for their toil—the minister of
Christ looks beyond this scene for his remuneration and
reward. What have they to enable them to meet those
calls, which their affections would' doubtlessly prompt them
to do ? They have about three hundred a year. Now,
there is a union of parishes, not far from the town of
Carlow, in the Queen's County. I do not exactly know
the names, but I understand they are worth upwards of a
thousand a year. The two clergymen doing the duty are
paid, I think I heard, a hundred a year each. The rector
does not reside ; he holds another parish in another part
of the diocese. Not possessing the power cf übiquity, he
can only officiate in one. He receives his eight hundred a
year, supposing the union worth a thousand, as I heard it
was, for which he does not return any labour. Does the
contrast of Carlow parish with this union call for a revision
of parishes, or does it not ? There are many similar
instances, but this is sufficient for my argument. Dr.
Au)tin, who a few years back resigned the union of Mid-
dleton in the County Cork, worth about two tl:cusaiul a
year, set a noble et:. imply to pluralists. It was Dean
Swift who met whir that untoward event, when driving
in company with one of the Rain family, and described
it with so much humour. In thinking his lines on the
ore,isien prophetical of ihe decay of our Church Establish-
ment, as I observed I would paraphrase it thus—The
Church militant on earth. The Church in the simplieity
and purity of her doctrine and pract;ce as professed by
that brunch Christ's Church, called the Church of England,
should he the pride and glory of any nation—but tempo-
reales has been too much blended, too much mixed up
with her spiritualities. They affird too large afh Id fir
the pension and place of the junior members of the nobilhy
and aristo. racy of the land. They were too much used
for that purpose. Her enereies have thereby been pars
lazed. She has lost to a considerable extent her influence
with the people, has lost her hold. on their affection—site
has, therefore, been set aside—she has, as it were, been
throe ain the ditch. Look to what a degree dissent
prevails in England. Look to Wales. In Wales the
clergy of the Established Church preach almost to empty
walls. The mcctieg-houses there arc crowded. Look
to Ireland—is there not almost in every town, at least, a
congregation, separating front the Church of England ?
And if the Protestants were as numerous in the country
as in the town, I doubt not but a meeting-house would be
seen ie every parish, as is generally the ease in Wales.
May not, then, those lines of the wittet Dean be consi-
dered prof hetic:el of that crumbling in the establishment as
I have sail ? At the last election of Carlow, I voted con-
scientiously for the Liberal candidate, N. A. Vigors, Esq.,
fully persuaded that the measures which he would support
is Pariiament were likely to do good in general ; were likely
in particular to uphold the Church, to prevent the total
ruin of this Establishment, by a due correction of its defects
and abuses ; and what, let me ask you, Protestants of
the town and county of Carlow, has been the conse-
quence of my voting as I did ? In Ballinacar rig perish,
where I was acting as Curate, sonic of you. I understand,
said you would not attend Church if I officiated there—l
was in the habit of occasionally assisting at thee even-
ing service in the church of Carlow. Some of you
sent word to Mr. Jameison, the Rector, that it I did
so any mere you would leave the Church. I asked
Mr. Jameison if it was true that you did so ; he told me it,
was. Is this the purity of the elective franchise, that the
Conservatives of the county Carlow would establish? 'lac
right of private judgment on every topic is held by the
Church of England to be the unalienable right of man. I.
a Minister of that Church, exercised the privilege. Is it
thus you show your veneration for one of the most distin-
guishing characteristic doctrines of your Church? I voted
as my conscience dictated, und you therefore decline coming
to the Church where I may officiate. Is not conduct like
this equal to the tyranny—is it not calculated to revive the
slavery of the darkest Popery, in the darkest centuries of
the Christian era ? An answer which a woman in a low
station in life gave me, when I asked her would she come
to the Church where I might officiate, contains a lesson for
high and low, rich and poor, learned and unlearned. What-
ever may be the description of the persons who expressed
themselves unwilling to attend where I might officiate,. 1
would say to them, learn a lesson from this poor woman
which teaches wisdom indeed—she is not too humble, too
insignificant to instruct you. God sends man to the
dumb animals to instruct them. Her answer was, " Oh,
Sir, when I go to the Church, it is to the Creator and
licd.•emer I look—not to his feeble minister." Our 26th
Article teaches what is implied in the woman's answer
—it teaches that the unworthiness of the ministers does
not hinder the effect of their ministration. My voting
for Mr. Vigors has been deemed by you a crime, a sin
sufficient to render me unworthy of ministering among you.
Had you viewed my crime (even if it was greater) in the
charitable light of the Article of the Church, you would
have shewed yourselves to be better acquainted with the re-
ligion that she inculcates. I saw extremes, violent ex-
tremes. I attempted to moderate them. The attempt may
be considered hazardous, but the value of the old adage
"in media tutissimus ibis" is worth fighting for—is worth
risking profession, life, aye everything here below. I count
all things but loss so that I may but win peace to Ireland.
The judicious Hooker could not speak in his day, in the
sixteenth century, with moderation towards his Roman Ca-
tholic brethren, without incurring severe censure. It appears
that I cannot now, in the 19th century, act with modera-
tion towards them without incurring the same censure.
While I regret the slow march of intellect, while I regret
that it has not advanced so far as to remove prejudice, that
prejudices which seem to be innate, inborn, cannot be over-
' come by the most powerful reasoning—that they are allowed
to continue so as to grow with our growth and strengthen
with our strength,-1 would adopt the language of Hoo-
ker, and exculpate my conduct, as he did his, in the follow-
ing words (it would be difficult to substitute better) :
t‘ .Wherefore I beseech you, in the meekness of Christ, to
consider that a watchman may cry an enemy when indeed a
friend coineth. In which case, as I deem the watchman
more worthy to be loved for his care than misliked for his
error, so I have judged it my own part in this, as much as
in me lieth to take away all suspicion of any unfriendly in-
tent or meaning, against the truth, from which God doth
know my heart is free."
I remain, Reverend Sir,
Your Brother in Jesus Christ,
Dublin-street, Carlow, CHARLES P. THOMAS,
1 17th March, 1837.

MEETING IN STOCKPORT.

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THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY, MARCH 29, 1837

tlon, and we shall find that those men who work hardest will
be the best paid. Mr. Crofts then read the resolution, which
was put from the Chair and unanimously carried.
Mr. S. S. JACKSON moved the next resolution, acknow-
ledging the claims which his Majesty's Ministers had upon
the gratitude of the meeting for their introduction of the
measure for the abolition of Church-rates.
Mr. CorrocK said his friend Mr. Christy had undertaken
to second the resolution, but had been prevented. In Mr.
Christy's. absence, he would beg leave to second the resolu-
tion. The Dissenters of this country were compelled to
,contribute to the support of a body of men who denied them
religious freedom, and who, by their clergy in the House of
Lords, and by the Tories in the House of Commons, never
agreed to any measure affecting the people, except that
measure was a bad one in itself. When Ireland was to be
coerced, who supported the Ministry ? The bishops, the
clergy, and the whole Tory force of both Houses. But
when Dissenters- were to be relieved, who supported the
efforts made to give them their just rights ? Only the in-
dependent and liberal Members of the House of Commons.
Even those bishops who had been placed upon the bench
by a liberal Ministry, in the vain hope that they would sup-
port liberal measures, deserted them when it was proposed
to relieve Dissenters from Church-rates. We must gladly
accept the present measure, by which this impost was
destroyed, and give our support to those Ministers who
,had ventured to bring forward a plan so honest, so wise,
so good, and so beneficial to the country.—(Hear, hear.)
But it was urged against these manufacturing districts, and
especially against Stockport, that they paid no Church-
rates, and therefore they had no right to petition the legis-
lature to remove the grievance. It had also been asserted
that the county of Chester was in flavour of the continu-
ance of Church-rates, and that not a single petition had
been sent to Parliament from any place in Cheshire against
a repeal of the system, but that a great many had been
sent in its flavour.- It was time, therefore, that the inha-
bitants of Stockport should show that they had a strong
feeling upon thnsubjeet ; and as this meeting was the first
held in the county, he hoped and believed it would not be
the last or the least.--(Hear, hear.) But it was said the
inhabitants of Stockport bad no right to complain, because
they did not pay Church-rates. He, however, would show
the meeting that the inhabitants of Stockport did pay
Church-rates, and that the Dissenters were not complain•
ing either of an idle or a small grievance. He held in his
hand the accounts of the expenditure for the support of the
parish church of Stockport from 1811, and he found that
it amounted to the enormous sum of 43,9451., the whole of
which had been wrung from the pockets of the people by
means of -Church-rates.—(Shame.) And he defied any
men in the kingdom to show, in proportion to the time
and benefits received, a greater, a more lavish, or more
shameful expenditure of the public money. In 1811, the
churchwardens levied from the parish 3,397/., a sum
nearly equal to the amount" of the whole Poors'-rates,
and thus one rector and two curates cost nearly as much
as .the whole poor of the parish.—( Hear, hear.) In 1813
the churchwardens received 3,840/., and finding the
money paid so readily, the next year (1814) they levied
4,0611.; in 1815, 4,017 ; in 1816, 3,959 ; in' 1817,
3,848 ; in 1818, 3,708 ; and in 1819, 3,016/. Then
they give the parish a little breathing time, and in 1827
levied 3,119/. more, making a total in these years of
33,297/. And these were gentlemen who professed to
teach and to preach the precepts of Christianity After
1827, they found it necessary to give the parish a little
more breathing time, and they remained quiet till
1834, when they came forward for another rate amount-
ing to about 4,000/. more ; and it was not till Mr.
Marsland, Mr. Howard, and several other parties who took
an active part in the matter, had threatened to meet them
them in a court of law, that they discontinued this most
gross attempt at exact; on.—(Hear, hear.)
.He would not
make his case against the system of Church-rates worse than
it really was—nay, he would not make it so bad as in fact it
was, but he would state what the Churchwardens had partly
done with the public money. He would take the first
statement of accounts in his hand—that for 1833. One
item was for ringing, and was placed down as costing 211.
a-year, and another for extra ringing 13s. There was 31.
for sacramental wine ; a verger for opening pew doors Si.,
assistants 6/. 12s„ 11. 10s., and 4/. 3s. 61, organ blower
6/. 6s. ; besides for washing gowns and surplices. The ac-
count was as long as a lawyer's bill, and he would not trouble
the meeting with reading the whole of it, nor the charges for
wasbirggowns anil surplices. But satisfied or not liatisfied with
making the parish pay these expenses they made it pay
1711. 19s. 3d. towards the maintenance of St. Thomas's
(Imrch ; and 70/. a-year towards St. George's at Hyde. He
believed that a hundred years hence when the account of
these transactions was read by our posterity they would be
almost horror-struck to think that the intelligent people of
England had been so foolish as-when they had the power
as at present to do away with such a grievance, they had
not at once. said, " we will not submit to be robbed with
impunity—we will not allow taxes to be laid upon us for
objects which we cannot conscientiously support." The
pews in the parish church of Stockport belonged to nobody
—they were said to belong to the public. But who used
them ? Who received rents for them ?—(Hear, hear.)
Did not everybody know idiot these pews were bought and
sold every day for 401. or LOI. each, and that the party
who made the sale put the money into his own pocket?—
(Hear, hear.) Having sold the pes lie goes ti Church ho
more,-hat somebody else occupied the pew, and the parish
was put to the expense of keeping this man's property in
orderl—' Hear, hear.) The Church possessed more than
suffeient property to defray all its expenses ; and even in
this very town there was property belonging to the Church
which, if used in the way his Majesty's Ministers proposed
to use it, would produce in the very least 4,0001. a year—
( Hear, hear)—which at the present moment was neither
lost nor gained to any one. The system was in fact an
obstruction to the value of property. The resolution was

(Abridged from the North Cheshire R#former.)
The absurd assertion of a member of the Episcopal
bench that the county of Chester was opposed to the abo-
lition of Church-rates, because no petitions had been pre-
sented in favour of the Ministerial measure, has received a
most triumphant denial on the part of the borough of Stock-
port, On the receipt of the London papers containing the
Lords' debate, in which the assertion alluded to Ives made,
measures were taken for a public meeting, and in a very
short time a most numerous and respectably signed requisi-
tion was presented to the Mayor, pressing him to call a
public meeting on the subject. The Mayor immediately
assented, and appointed the meeting to be held in the
Court-house on Wednesday, at half-past 10 o'clock in the
forenoon. At the appointed time a large number of the in-
habitants had assembled. The Mayor, Jonathan Thorn-
hill, Esq., was unanimously called to preside.
The Mavon opened,the proceedings by reading the re-
quisition, which requested him to call the meeting, " to
take into consideration the propriety of addressing the King,
and petitioning both Houses of Parliament in favour of the
Ministerial measure for the removal of Church-rates."
The Mayor then proceeded to observe that when the
commutation or repeal of the Church-rates first be-
came a great national question, the friends of the
Church looked upon the measure as one of great hos-
tility towards the- Establishment, as injurious to its well
being, and nearly destructive of its existence. But it
now appeared that the Church itself possessed dormant re-
sources fully adequate to sustain a burden so obnoxious to
those who were not benefited by the Church, so that those
who originated the present measure might fairly be consi-
dered the truest patriots. The Ministerial plan for dis-
posing of the different details or props which were to sup-
port this burden, had been selected and arranged with such
wisdom, that we might almost look upon it as a masterpiece.
The only task, therefore, that devolved upon the people
was to commend the measure, and to strengthen the hands
of Ministers, that their judicious plans might become the
law of the land.
APELLES HOWARD, Esq., proposed the first resolution,
expressive of the satisfactioe felt be the meeting at the
efforts of his Majesty's Ministers to relieve all classes of
the community from the unpopular impost of Church-rates.
Church-rates, being a compulsory payment, were contrary
to the spirit of Christianity. Much had been said on the
one hand by Dissenters in favour of the voluntary system,
and on the other hand much bad been alleged against it by
the Church party. Now in talking of matters of another
kind we were accustomed to say, " Look first at home."
Upon the same principle he said, " Look at Stockport:'—
( Hear, hear.) Look at 43 schools, its places of public wor-
ship, and the number of attendants on each. Two-thirds
of the people of this town received spiritual instruction by
means of voluntary contributions, and of 11,000 children
attached to our charity schools 9,000 were being educated
at the charge of Dissenters.—( Hear.) What was the cause
of so much dissent from the Established Church ? Be-
cause the friends of the Established Church were its
greatest enemies by seeking to support it by a system of
compulsion.—( Hear, hear.)
The Rev. WILLIAM SMITH spole.e nearly in the following
words—The measure that his Majesty's Ministers have in
troduced in the lower House, not for the abolition, but ra-
ther, I should say, for the commutation of Church-rates, is
one so evidently free from the slightest imputation of- in-
justice and spiolation, that I cannot conceive how Church-
man or Dissenter, or any man, whatever religious belief he
may profess, or whatever political opinions he may support,
can conscientiously -object to it. I ascribe all the opposition
to this wise measure to ignorance on the one hand, and to
party spirit on the other.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") And
I am satisfied, perfectly satisfied, that in the whole com-
munity there is not any one of sane mind, who examining
the measure, unless,. intleV, his mind be pre-occupied by
party, and corrupted by long accustomed habit, or unless the
light of his conscience and the distinctness of his intellectual
perceptions arc obscured by party influences and motives,
can give any feasible or honest opposition to it.--( Hear,
hear.) Ilis .Majesty's Ministers tell the holders of Church
lands that under their :ystem of management those lands
are not rendered near so productive as they might be,
which I can prove to be the fact ; and that so long as a
Bishop, Dean and Chapter, Prebend, or whatever they may
be called, has only a life interest in them, they never can
get the proper value, on account of- the uncertainty of the
tenure. The State then comes forward and says, " We
will relieve you from this situation, and guarantee you the
full present value of these lands, and a participation in the
surplus which may be created by oar Aet, besides relieving
those whom you call )our enemies, by taking away
from them their main ground of olipction to your
Church ; we will use means to pour the oil of conciliation
and peace over the troubled waters of rcl'gious discord and
animosity ; and all we ask from you is to allow us to do so
without bigoted and violent opposition."--(Cheers.) And
yet this conciliatory measure has been resisted ! The Mi-
nisterial measure is opposed—is violently, determinedly,
strenuously opposed—by certain parties; and it is our duty
as Christian men, as citizens in a free country, and as lovers
of justice and truth, to come forward and assert that it has
our full and entire concurrence and approbation.—(Cheers.)
But it is objected that, the Ministerial measure is an attack
upon the clergy of the Establishment. It attacks the
clergy of the Establishment certainly in one respect. It
places before them a barrier, and this barrier prevents
them advancing in a certain direction, and those parties
who attack them ; hut the direction in which it prevents
them advancing is a direction in which they go adverse to
the feelings of the people.—(Cheers.) It is a barrier
which prevents them from getting into personal collision
with the people ; it is a barrier that arrests their hand
when it would be thrust into the pockets of the people ;
it i-; a barrier in fact that prevents oppression on the part
of the clergyman, and discontent, opposition, and enmity on
the part of the people.—(Loud cheers.) It is also said
that this measure is an attack upon religion. I might go on
in the same way and show you that religion does not consist
in the imposition of rates of any kind, and above all that
religion does not' consist in vexing or irritating the cern.
sciences of our fellow-men, nor in perpetuating- a source of
discontent and disunion among the people. I might go on
to show you, on the contrary, that religion consists in the
cultivation of kindly feelings, in the promotion of charitable
dispositions, and in forwarding the temporal and eternal in-
terests of all with whom you come in contact. I think,
therefore, it would not be a very difficult task to prove that
the rights and privileges which the Established Clergy
claim of levying Church-rates upon those who differ with
them upon conscientious grounds, is not a part or parcel of
religion.—(Cheers.) But I will go further, and say that
not only is this a measure of Christian liberty and equity,
but it is a measure eminently calculated to serve the Es-
tablished Church itself. I support the measure upon these
grounds ; and I am sorry, indeed, that long habit, improper
influences, and the custom of regarding as a right and a
privilege what is manifestly not a right or a privilege; but
an unjust, unfair, and anti-christian grievance, prevents the
Clergy and the adherents of the Establishment from sup-
porting the measure, althouvh evidently for the best in-
terests of their Church. A petition lately presented to the
House of Lords by the Archbishop of Canterbury against
the abolition of Church-rates, had but twelve signatures—
(Hcar)—and who do you think these parties were ? Six
of them consisted of the parish clerk and his five children,
another was the sexton of the parish, two were bell-ringers,
and I know not what the others were, but no doubt they
were " very respectable."--(Clieers.) I think we shall not
have much difficulty in forwarding a petition as respectably,
and at any rate as numerously signed as this. It is our duty
to do so.--(Hear, bear.) The Rev. Gentleman concluded
amidst loud cheers, by seconding the resolution, which was
put and carried unanimously.
Mr. Alderman Bnower said the Dissenters were, as he
believed, a more numerous body than the Churchmen, it
was monstrous injustice that the majority should pay for
the religion of the minority. We need not look very far
to discover that the Ministers of the Establishment did not
possess the same zeal as the Ministers of Dissenting deno-
minations. Many of them seemed to think that the cure
of souls was only the means of obtaining a living.—(Hear,
hear.) It was certainly much to be regretted, but the fact
was so, that the Dignitaries of the Establishment seemed
to have set their faces against the amelioration of our insti-
tutions. He need only refer for proof to their conduct on
the Reform Bill, and on all the liberal measures which the
present Ministry had introduced. Mr. Alderman Brown
concluded by propo.sing the second resolution, which de-
clared the satisfaction of the meeting at the Ministerial
measure.
The Rev. H. 0. CROFTS seconded the resolution. Man
is a rational being. He is a free agent therefore all
compulsory measures, especially those of a religious kind,
n has a r right
theto
ac-
tir
must be looked upon as tyrannical.—(Cheers.) Liberty of
conscience in matters of religion is the prerogative of every
l
irnaltpi ooas
ea ,h ofs
opinionsevery
uponthinkingan
oh being.reerf
;ney to N
w hold,
Godiho alone are we ac-
denever and fo
any law is m
c oounns t awbel e
mayf or thep e r f
oopinions
ri7c,e t
no
passed for the purpose of making any man subscribe to that
which in his judgment he is convinced is wrong—l say we
are tyrannising over that man's conscience, and taking away
from him that liberty which the great God of all has be-
stowed upon him. I was born in the city of Litchfield.
There is there a catlicerel and our churches, but I never
heard in my life but of one parson preaching in any of
those churches who might be said to possess the religion of
Jesus Christ in his heart.--( Hear, hear.) And these men
seem by all their actions to say to the Dissenters, " Stand
off, stand off, for we are holier men than you." I look
upon Church-rates as unnecessary, and I do so because I
am well acquainted with the effects of the voluntary sys-
tem. Let the voluntary principle be brought into opera-

then carried.
Mr. E. HOLLINS moved the fourth resolution, that a
petition be presented to the King, and petitions to both
Houses of Parliament, praying them to pass the Ministe-
rial measure for the abolition of Church-rates.
Mr. J. FOWDEN seconded the resolution, which was una-
nimously carried.
Mr. C. liusT proposed that Lord Vernon should
be requested to present the petition to the Lords, and that
Henry Marsland, Esq., present 1.1. e petition to tha Commons,
with a request to E. J. Stanley, Eicp, to support its prayer.
Mr. J. H AmEa, in a long and energetic address, se-
conded the resolution.
Mr. H. SEFTON observed that as Major Marsland bad
recorded his vote in favour of the Church-rate system, it
would be unnecessary for the meeting to trouble him with
a request to support the petition. To talk about applying
to the House of Commons or to the House of Lords was a
mere fallacy unless the people were determined to fol!ow
up the prayers of their petitions with personal and active
exertion.—(Cheers.) After a few further observations to
the same effect, Mr. Sefton concluded, and the petition was
unanimously carried.
HENRY 'MARSLAND, Esq., M.P., then rose and was re-
ceived with loud cheering. The Hon. Member spoke to
the following effect. There are only three parties to which
the Ministerial measure appeals—the nation, the lessees of
Church property, and the clergy. With regard to the na-
tion I think it has been proved by the preceding speakers
that both Churchman and Dissenter will be equally be-
nefitted by the measure. With regard to the lessees of
Church property there may be some division of opinion
—I am of opinion it will be highly serviceable to the lessee,
that he will by it acquire a certain tenure for the land which
he now holds by an uncertain tenure. The lessee under
deans and chapters may perhaps not be able to drive such
a hard bargain with a body of men, some of whose lives
may be uncertain, or perhaps of not so long duration as the
patriarchs of old ; whilst the lessee under a Bishop, especially
if he be healthy and vigorous, will not be liable to be sprung
up to the highest pitch to which he is now subject. There-.
fore, I think upon the whole that lessees of Church pro!
perty will beg reatly beuefitted. Allusion has been made
to the numberless petitions presented to the House of Lords.
I have only to confirm the statement made that some peti-
tions have been in many instances very thinly signed, and
that likewise they were got up under the impression that
the Dissenter was not only to be relieved, but the relief to
be, afforded to him was to be provided by placing greater
burdens upon the poor Churchman. I think we ought to
be truly grateful to his Majesty's Ministers for having
brought forward this great question, for no doubt it will ex-
pose them to much obloquy and much opposition. I do
not myself think they will be able to carry the
,Measure this
Session, although it may go through the House of Com-
mons ; but notwithstanding truth will be powerful and
must prevail.—(Cheers.) If this great question should still
continue to be agitated, it will prove a source of con-
stant irritation throughout the country, and the Church
of England will approach to the state in which the Church
of Ireland, or rather the Church of England in Ireland,
now stands—au edifice about to totter to the ground, from
which no exertions of her friends can now save her, which
must fall in consequence of the continual opposition made
by her to every measure of improvement, to every kind of
repair brought forward, not by its enemies, but by its very
best friends.—(Loud cheering.)
This being the whole of the proceedings, the Mayor va-
cated the chair, which was taken by Mr. Alderman Howard.
The thanks of the meeting were then voted to the Mayor
for the able manner in which he had presided, and the
people separated.

AUSTRIA AND THE AtisTRIANs.--We are re-
quested to state that the new work, entitled, " Austria and
the Austrians,' in 2 vols., post Svo., with portraits of the Em-
peror Ferdinand and Prince Metternich, is published this day
by Mr. Colburn, 13, Great Marlborough-street, and may be
obtained of every bookseller in the kingdom. Agents for
Scotland, Bell and Bradfute, Edinburgh ; for Ireland, John
Cumming, Dublin.