The Sun.
London, England, 1839-05-18 00:00:00

THE SUN,

«'itnes•—By loud cheers. I believe the more
lolent the language the more it was cheered.
Cross-examined by Mr. O'Connor.—Are you a re- I

of surety required, which, in fact, considering the station
m life of the prisoners, amounted to a committal.
rhe AlAGISTRATEs said they had well considered the
subject, and could not reduce the amount. They
agreed, however, to take four sureties of 1001. each
from Fussell. Bail to that amount was tendered, and
Fussell was liberated. Brown was then removed
from the bar, and in about half an hour after-
wards he was removed in a car, accompanied
by Spittal, one of the Birmingham police officers, under
a strong escort of the 4th Dragoons to Warwick.
There was an immense crowd of persons around the
office at the time, probably amounting to 5,000, who
loudly cheered the prisoner as he was conveyed along
the streets.

porter ?
Witness—No. I never was a reporter.
Mr. O'Connor—You did not form any opinion o' the
words used until you went to bed ?

W itness—l never said so.
Mr. O'Connor—You did not think of them at the
time they were used
Witness—Yes, I did.
Mr. O'Connor—Did you write down your notes at
the time.
Witness—l did not write them down then. I wrote
them down next morning.
Mr. Chance—lf you had not written them down you
could not have given a correct statement of the language

The town is in an alarming state of excitement,
and a large meeting is holding at this time (four o'clock)
at Holloway Head. The general impression however
is, that no serious disturbance will take place, as several
Delegates are at the meeting, and are not likely to re-
commend measures which would lead to collision with
the local authorities.

used.
Mr. O'Connor—Were you in Birmingham in 1832 ?
Witness—l was.
Mr. O'Connor—Did you ever attend any of the
political meetings at that time ?
Witness—No ; I did not. This was the first poli-
tical meeting I ever attended.
Mr. O'Connor—Sit down, Sir ; you arc a child in
politics. I may want you again.
Mr. Robert Jenkins, Inspector of the London Police,
then deposed as follows :—On Tuesday the 14th
of May, between seven and eight o'clock in the
evening, 1 and Charles Frederick Field were at

Four o'Clock—Brown is committed to Warwick
Gaol, and at half-past one o'clock was taken off under
an escort of cavalry (the 4th Royal Irish Dragoons).
Eight hundred pounds bail was demanded, and it was
determined, under the advice of Mr. O'Connor, to pur-
sue the same course, as, in the case of Mr. Vincent, by
allowing the defendant to be committed in order to
have him brought up by Habeas, to try the right of the
Magistrates to extort such enormous bail, and to ex-
pose as early as possible the foul conspiracy which has
been hatched by police spies ; to commence the break-
ing up of the Convention, or the exciting the people to
acts which might serve as a pretext for the Whig Mi-
nistry to gratify the demand of their Tory coadjutors
by a suspension of the constitutional safeguards of per-
sonal liberty. The witnesses against Brown were In-
spector Field and another London policeman, and a
tax-gatherer (Mr. Chapman), whose evidence was so
worthless that he was not bound over to appear.

Holloway-head, near Birmingham, where there was a
large assemblage of persons amounting to seven hundred;
the meeting was addressed oy the prisoner Fussell and an-
other person not in custody. John Fussell said" A meet-
ing will be held in the Horse-market to-morrow (meaning
Wednesday), and he hoped the Convention would at-
tend to give an account of themselves and their proceed•
ings. As for himself, if the authorities or the COrn-
missioners of the Market refused to allow them, they

would go to the Bull-ring or the Town-hall. He
cared not for the authorities ; he knew they could net
hurt him ; he was only doing a public duty to the work-
ing men of Birmingham, and he would not flinch from
it. They had paid for the Town-hall ; it was a public
place ; it was their property, and they would have
it, or any other place they thought proper. If it
was refused, they would repel force by force.
What did he cure for mayors or magistrates,
for their proclamations or the military, their

The people are in the highest state of excitement ;
if farther arrests should be made, it will probably be no
longer possible for the Delegates and others who have
influence over them to prevent breaches of the peace.
I should think there are not less than from 8,000
to 10,000 persons in the Bullring, end Moor-street.
Dr. Taylor has just addressed them, exhorting them to
go home, but it is feared the excitement will not easily
subside, and there may, before to-morrow morning,
be a serious disturbance.

special constables or police ? They dare not do any-
thing—he would defy them." There was great cheering
and huzzaing by the persons assembled during the de-
livery of this speech. Fussell said, at the end of his
speech, that " as the Convention wished to meet there
again on the following night, they would do so, and ar- see
rangements would be made." On the following night I BIRMINGHAM,
FRIDAY.
and Field were at Holloway-head. There were several The Convention sat this morning as usual, at the
hundreds of persons present. When we arrived, Fus- Chapel in Lawrence-street. The building was crowded
sell was addressing,them. Fussell said " they would cer- to suffocation with strangers. On Mr. O'Brien enter-
tainly meet in the Horse-market to-morrow. He did not ing, he was loudly applauded.
care for the proclamations ; if they (meaning the consta- ARRESTS.
bles) laid hold of him, he would repel force by force. We Mr. COLLINS said as there were various rumours
find the Government are arresting the members of the abroad as to the cause of the arrests made that morning,
Convention one by one, and we are anxious to have he thought it was the duty of the Convention to send
others appointed to fill their places, and if they were all two of the members to ascertain the nature of the
arrested, a second Convention would be formed." charge—to see whether it was connected with the, Con-
Fussell then said to the persons assembled, " Will you vention—and whether hail would be taken. He under-
stand by us ?" and several hundred voices exclaimed, stood Mr. O'Connor was there, but he would move that
We will ! we will !" and several hundred persons Dr. Fletcher and Mr. Richardson be requested to go to
shouted with a great noise. The prisoner Brown was the public office, and make the necessary inquiries.
present at the same meeting, and said, "I am glad to Mr. J. TAYLOR seconded the motion, and it was un-
find that a second Convention is to be formed, and that animously carried.
there is to be a meeting held in the market, where I ADVICE TO THE PEOPLE.
wish it always had been." He also said, 'he should Mr. O'BRIEN, in accordance with his promise yester-
be prepared, and if the police or anybody struck him, day, had drawn up the following Resolutions. The
first was, "That ' Peace, Law, and Order' shall con-
personshe would strike them. Won't you ?"—(addressing tho
assembled)—to which they replied, 44 we tinue to be the motto of this Convention so long as our
will ! we will !"oppressors shall act in the spirit of ' Peace, Law, and
noand shouted and made a great
se. On Thursday evening, the 16th instant, Order' towards; the people ; but should our enemies sub-
I was in the Smithfield Market, where there were statute war for peace, or attempt to suppress our lawful
between 600 and 700 persons assembled. Fussell ad-it to be the sacred duty of the people to meet force
and orderly agitation by lawless violence, we shall deem
dressed the meeting, and after reading from a paper
called the Birmingham Advertiser (a copy of which I with force, and repel assassination by justifiable homi-
."
now produce), the whole of the article headed " Mani-
cid
festo of the General Convention of the Industrious Mer. O'BRIEN then moved the second resolution :
Classes," the 4th article of which he read twice to them, " That in accordance with the foregoing resolution, tile
said, " provide yourselves and act as the manifesto Convention do employ only legal and peaceable means
states." He also said, " they had a right to meet at in the prosecution of the great and righteous objects of
Smithfield, and would do so, let the consequences be the present movement. Being also desirous that no
what it might. The authorities knew well that they handle should be afforded to the enemy for traducing
could not interfere, and he would assure them that if
our motives, or employing armed force against the peo-
the men of Birmingham were to unite, they need not pie, we hereby recommend the Chartists who may at-
care a d—n for their petty tyrants. He conjured them tend the approaching simultaneous meetings, to avoid
to protect the Convention, and if any of them should be carrying staves, pikes, pistols, or any other ofensive
arrested, immediately to appoint others in their places." weapons about their persons—we recommend them
He further said, " there would be a meeting at the to proceed to the ground, sober, orderly, and unarmed,
same place on the following night. Brown was as also to treat as enemies of our cause any person or
present and said he denounced the threats which persons who may exhibit such weapons, or who by any
had been held out to him. He said, " Sup- other act of folly or wickedness, should provoke a
pose we are interfered with and the Riot Act be breach of the peace."
read, go away quietly." The people here called out,
"We will see them d—d first." He said, " Stop—let
me finish my sentence—meet again the next night and
don't came empty-handed. Be prepared—repel force
to lead you and the last to leave you."
the meeting.
Mr. O'Connor regretted that the prisoners had been Mr. WOODWOUSE seconded the resolution.
This
was
TO He
going on day after day, that they should be calking
Mr. MARSDEN thought it rather absurd while arrests
of peace, law, and order. Those arrests would destroy
by force—we will soon teach them, and will be the first
the energy of the people, and the greatest movement
would sink into insignificance.—(Cries of " No, no.")
He thought that portion of the resolution which said
ceived by the assembly with great cheering. I then left
the people ought not to go to the meetings with pistols
and other weapons, should be expunged, because they
so uncourteous to the authorities, but was glad to find
all knew what the result of such a course being pursued
that Brown had given the people advice to disperse if the at Peterloo was. The people, by following the advice
Riot Act was read. He had no questions toput to the wit- of Mr. Hunt, were brutally massacred without having
ness as there was nothing in the evidence against Fussell. the means to resist the enemy.
Mr. Charles Frederick Field, another Inspector of the Dr. TAYLOR said if they were to adopt the sugges-
London Police, was next examined. He deposed, that tions of Mr. Marsden, they would be playing the game
on the 14th of May he accompanied Robert Jenkins of their enemies better than they could play it them-
to a meeting at Holloway Head, where there were selves, because it would be then in the power of the
several hundreds of persons assembled. He heard police spies to goad the people on to use arms.--( Hear,
the account given that day before the Magistrates, and hear.) He had been in London this week, and had
it was correct. He was also at the meetings on the there been informed a conspiracy existed in Manches-
Wednesday and on Thursday, and the account given of ter, on the part of the Magistrates, to take advantage
such meetings, and of the language used by the speakers of the slightest outbreak, and already orders had been
was correct. He went. with the Birmingham Police last given to the military Commander to charge on the
night to apprehend the prisoners. Fussell was found people. He had also been informed the soldiery were
in bed, and Brown they met in the street. In the house in favour of the people, and that the Commander would
where they found Fussell he found 27 papers and letters not obey such order unless there was a decisive out-
-some addressed to Brown and Fussell, and others to break.—( Hear, hear.) That message had been sent to
a man named Donaldson, all of which he now pro- to them in order that they might keep within the law.
duced. The battle was winning itself. What cared they for
Mr. O'Connor here said, that he should certainly the arrests. People were arrested one day and dis-
tender information against him for burglary, as he had charged the next—no charge being capable of being
no warrant to search the house. substantiated against them.—(Cheers.) There were
Mr. Field—Allow me to explain, I said to Fussell Magistrates in the country—and there were some in
when I apprehended him that I had no search warrant, Birmingham—who would glory in an attack on the
but that if he allowed me to search the house I would people, but he trusted the Chartists would not give
do so. Fussell replied " You may search every part of them that opportunity. He hoped Mr. Marsden would
the house." withdraw his opposition.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. O'Connor—Show me your notes. (The notes Mr. Woonstouse was an admirer of peace, law, and
were here handed to Mr. O'Connor.) order, and the obtaining the rights of man by peace,
Mr. Field—l wrote the notes and I will swear to law, and order, but to obtain them at any rate. He
thought, however, it would be very imprudent to adopt
them.
Mr. O'Connor—When did you come to Birming- the advice of Mr. Marsden, although no doubt well
meant, and he should, therefore, support the resolution.
ham ?
Mr. MARSDEN merely wished to leave the people to
Mr. Field—We came down on Sunday ;we were udge and act for themselves.
sent down to preserve the peace ; we had a warrant to j
Mr. LOVETT said the people bad on some occasions
arrest Fussell, but we had no warrant to search.
Mr. O'Connor—When did you make oat these acted foolishly, and the object of this resolution was
to prevent a repetition of such conduct.—(Hear, hear.)
notes ?•
Witness—l made them out when 1 returned from the Mr. DEAN, of Manchester, said he had received the
Mr. Jenkins and I took same information which had been communicated to Dr.
meeting—about an hour after.
Taylor in London. No doubt the tools of the Go-
separate notes and compared them together, after which
he (Fild) vernment would avail themselves of every opportunity
swear tto
them. wrote out the notes, and he was prepared to to incite a breach of the peace, and he should there-
Mr. O'Connor—Have you the first notes you wrote ? fore support the resolution.
Witness—They were destroyed. Mr. PITKEITHLEY thought this resolution placed
Mr. O'Connor—Could you, without your notes, re- the Convention in a very critical position, and
iterate what you have just read ? he sympathised with the remarks made by Mr.
Witness—No ; I made the notes about an hour after Marsden, respecting the meeting at Peterloo. He
I left the meeting. thought it was going too far to advise them not to carry
Mr. O'Connor—And what time has elapsed since sticks, but at the same time he did not wish the people
you gave your evidence from these notes? to make any physical force demonstration.
Witness—Not much. Mr. O'BraEN could not sec the difficulties suggested
Mr. O'Connor—And yet you cannot repeat what by Mr. Marsden, and Mr. Pitkeithley. There were
you have so recently sworn to. two ways of guarding against danger—one was to afford
Mr. Jenkins was here questioned by Mr. O'Connor the enemy no pretext for employing brute force, and
as to the language which he (Mr. O'Connor) had used the other was to have ample means of resisting
at liolloway-head on the Monday, and he admitted any attack. If he (Mr. O' B.) were to advise them to
that Mr. O'Connor's advice to the people was consti- bring any weapons at all, it would be to bring the best
tutional, and was intended to induce a respect for the weapons. The question was, which was the best way
laws and authorities. to protect the lives of the people. He thought by not
The Magistrates here inquired whether the prisoners giving the authorities any pretext whatever for inters
had any observations to make ? fering.—( Hear, hear.) These meetings had been
Mr. O'Connor—l recommend the prisoners to make denounced simply on the ground that the people carried
no observation whatever. 1 think they may safely leave with them pikes and bludgeons which created alarm.
the case where it is. . Let the people go peaceably, quietly, and orderly, but
Mr. S. Bray, solicitor, said he was authorized to ap- at the same time, if any murders were committed by
pear on behalf of Fussell. He (Fussell) had explained the authorities, that would do more to rouse the people
to him that he had no intention whatever to excite the than all the agitation for the next seven years.—(Hear.)
people to violence ;he might have spoken under feelings Mr. OssolitNe begged to state distinctly and delibe-
of excitement, and was willing to promise never to he rately that he would not entrust his person, though it
guilty of anything of the kind again. He had been was but a small one, at any meeting where he believed
misled, and he trusted under the circumstances no harsh the spies or tools of the magistracy would attend, with-
proceedings would be lesorted to. out being prepared, if any attempt were made to destroy
Fussell was then asked by the Bench if he were him, to put in force that law which was above all human
willing to adopt the language of Mr. Bray, and said lie law—the law of self-preservation. He thought they
would only pledge himself not to meet in the Bull-ring ought to leave it to the judgment of the people whe-
again, and denied having used the language attributed ter they would prepare themselves for
view individual de-
fence or not, and he concurred in the s expressed
to him.
'nit! BENCII—TIICII we understand you will not by Mr. Marsden.
Mr. MILLS said that if anything had a tendency to
attend a public meeting again ?
Fussell refused to pledge himself to any thing of the damn the cause of Universal Suffrage, it would be the
kind. He should be unworthy the name of an Eng- languageae hull had heard that mornsng made use of.
orities wanted wo break up tbat
lishman were lie to do so.
The Magistrates retired, and after consulting for peaceable agitation which at present was being carried
about half an hour returned when the MAYOR said— on. He had the greatest confidence in the people ob-
The Magistrates are of opinion, that in reference to both taining Universal Suffrage by their own peaceable agi-
prisoners the evidence is so strong and so clear as tation.—( Hear, hear.) The Government were employ-
to leave no doubt as to the use of violent and in- ing spies to disseminate the same doctrines that Mr.
flammatory language, and that they should not be per- Marsden and Mr. Osborne had urged. As a working-
forming their duty, but falsifying the oaths they had man, he was anxious that his fellow-workmen and fel-
taken when appointed to their office, if they did not send low-sufferers should show by their conduct that they
both the prisoners to triad—it was of course understood were worthy of the franchise.—(Cheers.) A brave man
that the offence was a bailable one. They wished to never threatened—he never bragged of what he would
make a distinction between the charges against the pri do—and he hoped the good sense of the majority of the
seners, as they were impressed with the conviction that Convention would oppose all attempts to make a dis-
the language used by Brown had been of a stronger play of any thing like arms or other weapons.
and more violent nature than that used by Fussell. Mr. POWELL supported the resolution. There al-
The prisoners were then informed that they would ready appeared a disposition on the part of the people
be committed to the Assizes, and that the bail required to go too fast, and the Convention ought tohold the reins
would he for Brown, personal security for 400/., and two tight, and keep them within bounds.—(Hear, hear.)
sureties in 2001. each ; for Fussell, personal security in Mr. CAMER was going off that morning with Mr.
200/., and two sureties in 100/. each. I Osborne to Ipswich, and he was not prepared to act on
Mr, O'Connor protested against the excessive amount the principle Mr. Osborne had stated he would :,;t on.