The Sun.
London, England, 1839-05-13 00:00:00

stance a landlord :leagued himself with the oppressors
of the tenant, and made use of the suffrage which the
The Convention met on Saturday ; Mr. GILL in the property gave him to rob the tenant of hisd
t Chair. earnings, by compelling him to pay unjust and
Mr. RICHARDSON said he had been informed thaheavy taxes, then he contended the tenant was
certain chalges had been made against him, which were bound to .resist him.—( Hear, hear.) There were a
utterly and entirely false ; and in order to give him an great many people—manufacturers, shopkeepers,.. and
utterly nd
cs
opportunity of vindicating himself, he begged permission,
others, who were quite apathetic in regard to peoriti_o,
been written to a Delegate
and who did not care whether Whigs, Radicals, T
by some p .rsonr7he did not exactly know who—but if
it were the person he suspected, he knew him to be one ries ruled, so long as their factories went
foounnacincbl
by the
to read a lgter which sbwil
profits increased, but who would, if they
of the most veritable scavaiii in Nottingham.
A DELv GATE said, ifiaitlwere the "William Brows measures which the industrious classes were determined
to pursue, that their factories would be stopped and their
he knew, r o Radical in Nottingham would countenance
profits cut short, join them in their endeavours to get
him. - v.s. justice. He supported the manifesto, because he
Dr. TA iLOR said he mustprotest against the reading
of the letter, believing that4it would set a most don- thought some address of the sort was absolutely ne-
eessary.
gerous precedent.—(Hear, . hear.) Why, if private Mr. O'Co
give his opinion on the mani-
letters were to be read containing charges against mem- Nisoa rose to
festo then presented, and he thought that nothing was
bens of the Convention, he could read a bundle that
more important than that they should not issue anything
would startle the Convention, imputing charges to some
bearing a counterfeit stamp on it, but that it should
of their best inen.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.) bear the sterling mark of their own determination.—
Mr. CLEAVE concurred in most earnestly suggesting
(Hear, hear.) The manifesto asked the people to ,
ab-
that no further steps be taken on this letter.—(Hear,
stain from paying their rent. Were the Delegates
I hear.) He knew himself, of most delectable things themselves prepared to refuse the payment of their own
which had been said by Delegates themselves respect-
ing the Convention, and which was now running the
rent, and to submit to seizure. He believed that every
one of those things mentioned in the manifesto must
round of the press. But all such imputations he treated,
follow before the cause of the people would be gained—
as he did all threats against his life, with the most
he believed that confusion wonld have to be created, but
thorough contempt.—(Hear, and laughter.)
the holding up of hands at public meetings, in favour
The matter here dropped, and the minutes of the
of arms, or in favour of a run upon the Banks, and the
last meeting were read. refusal of the payment of rents and taxes, as proposed
A letter was read from Alloa, announcing a meeting of
by the manifesto, would only create a delusion
Deputations there from the Working Men's Associations
throughout the country ! He should not oppose the
of Alloa, Tillicoultry, Kincardine, Clackmannaa, Fal-
document, but he would recommend the Convention to
kirk, and Dumblane ; and a demonstration was agreed
16ok at the position in which they might place them-
upon, to take place in Stirling, on Friday the 31st inst.,
selves if it was published and sent forth to the world.
Messrs. O'Connor and Frost being invited to attend. If he voted for the manifesto he would hold himself
The Convention recommended an address to her Ma- bound to refuse the payment of all rents and taxes.
jesty, in case the petition was refused, as it was not in-
But the day en which that operation was to commence
tended to petition again. was not appointed. The people would go back from
One pound was announced from Kincardine, and 10s. the public meetings, and would in such small sections
from Norwich, refuse payment of rent as would bring their pro-
From seven operative pewterers of the City of Lon- ceedings in contact with the authorities ; but he
don, Be. were received. was convinced they would not get men to throw
The lollowing programme of meetings to be attended
their families into the streets, houseless and without
in future was agreed to : shelter. The document was eloquently and ably writ-
Glas ,ow, Monday, 10th June Messrs. Frost, ten ; it well defined the opinion of the Convention, and
O'Brier, , Lowrey, Collins, Bussey, and Richardson. laid down the routine of business that should be acted
Renf.ewshire Meeting, Tuesday, 11—Frost, O'Brien,
on ; and although he should not oppose its reception,
and Lo cry. yet he thought it might with propriety be amended.
Ayes tire, 12th and l3th June—Messrs. Frost,
Dr. FLETCHER supported the manifesto. The re-
O'Brie-, and Lowrey. fugal of the supplies was the old constitutional weapon of
Stir Lag, 11th—Messrs. Collins, Bussey, and Rich-
ardson. the people, and so far from thinking with Mr. Sankey,
that it was contrary to the principles of Christianity and
AEo e,l2th—Messrs. Collins, Bussey, and Richard- morality to refuse the payment of rents, he thought it
son. was against Christianity to ask for rents.—( Hear, hear,
Duefermline, 12th—The same. and laughter.) It certainly was most unchristian and
Kirkaldy, 13th—The same. immoral to take from the poor such exorbitant rents as
Cupar, 13th —The same. were at the present day exacted.—(Hear, hear.)
Perth, 14th—The same. Dr. TAYLOR would take leave to say a few words on
Dundee, 14th—The same. the subject. as lie felt that Mr. Whittle had not yet had
Montt rose, 15th—The same. a sufficient answer to the arguments which he adduced
Fort ,r, 13th—The same. in opposition to the address. It would he scarcely ne-
Anse deen, 17ih June—The same. cessary to go over his arguments as there was scarcely
Edit burgh, Wedm day, the 19th—Messrs. Frost,
anytlMlg to recommend them but the manner in which
O'Bric 1, Lowrey, Collins, Bussey, and Richardson. they were roade.—(Hear, hear.) He argued against
The Jedburgh and Dumfries meetings to take place
the address for not giving advice to the people while, in
immed:.itely after the Newcastle and Carlisle meetings,
the outset of his address, he denied the authority of the
and da . a to be fixed by Messrs. Lowrey and Knox, who
Convention to give advice.—(Hear, hear.) But the
are ap ointed to attend them. , fact was that it did give advice, but not direction.—
Dr. FLETCHER moved that the Delegates out on tne
(Hear, hear.) They had no right to dictate to the
simult neous meetings be put upon the same footing
country the naming of any particular day on which Lil-
es toeepenses with the late missionaries. terior measures were to be commenced, it would be in-
Mr. BUssRY moved, as an amendment, that coach
justice to do so, as they had not the power of giving
fare only be allowed. directions.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Can Mr. Whittle
A eiscuasion ensued as to the point, several Dele-
get any better proof of the feelings of the people
gates thinking it unfair that those who received no
at present but a show of hands? Was it not
allowance from their constituents should be thrown en-
a show of hands, which sent Mr. Whittle here. Mr.
tirely on their own resources. Whittle seems to think that it is necessary that there
Mr. CARPENTER said it could hardly be expected
should be a genuine simultaneous feeling on the question.
that the Delegates should pay out of their own pockets •1 his was
the necessary expenses of discharging their public duty. not necessary, their object would be to show
, the Government how much they bad in their power the
(Bear, hear.) He thought that not only the coach
means of annoyance, which would be best attained by
fares, but all the requisite expenses, be paid, if not, he ordering a run on the Saving Banks.—(Hear, hear.)
certainly; should not go. He was quite willing, at the
Mr. Spring Rice said last year that were it not for
same time, that a full and accurate account be given
the lodgements made in these banks by the people, he
of every shilling—nay, of every penny-piece expended.
would be unable to make up the deficencies in the finan-
It was quite enough that the Delegates should en-
cial accounts of the year.—( Hear, hear.) For his part,
counter the personal inconvenience and danger, for don- the address did not go near far enough.—(Hear, hear.)
ger there was.—( Hear, hear.) For himself he should
He thought that the address only asked the people
go on the mission, if appointed, with the full persuasion
what day the Convention should go back—it did not go
that he should never come hack.—(Hear, hear.) And to prevent the simultaneous meetings.—( Hear, hear.)
every Delegate must go out with the same feeling,
(Hear, hear.) During the last few days, men who had If they speci.sed any thane their constituents might turn
been acting as legally as possible—how had they been round-on-theM and- say they bad not given authority
treated by the Magistrates, who had shown a determi- for acting so. If they were to tell them a particular
ing, g, in order to put down a constitutional right claimed day, they would be probably acting illegally. For him-
I nation to ii rest the law from its real and proper mean-
by the people ?—(Hear, hear.) He declared, with all
self, be would not fear any danger that might occur ;
but still he thought there was no use in doing that which
was illegal. He thought their best plan would be to
\respect to the Convention, that he should feel happy if
the amendment. was carried, as it would at once‘ re- ask theni now, and when the public meetings had been
lieve him from an onerous and dangerous duty, which he
would gladb: relinquish could he do so with honour.
He did cot wish to run cc uselessly into danger ; but at
the same time, if just regulations were adopted, lie
should not shrink tram any duty that might be irn-
posed.—(Cheers.)
Mr. Joens said he would give one short reason for held, they would be prepared with a proper answer.—
(Cheers.)
Mr. lticnAnnQoN thought ought not to thrust
this undigested document on the theypublic without being
further considered. He thought that if they were pre-
pared to recommend ulterior measures they ought to
understand them well before doing so. his was a
document which in its results might be one of the
I supporting the motion : he had on his last mission spent
--( ,
nreatest which ever was Hear,proaucea. hear.) In
151. out of his own poeket,and he would never do so again. • Major Cartivienht, s time the agitation was very high,
Mr. MARSDEN observed that it was much more difli-
the armed associations were 14,000 in number—they
cult to board oneself in the country than in the town.
recommended the people to abstain from the use of
Dr. FLETCHER in reply said he only wished the abso-
exciseable articles, but they did not go so far as to
lutely requisite, extraordinary expenses, to be paid ; and
it would be better that delegates were not sent at all attack the rents of the country. He did not care for
rather than to go without proper means of subsistence. himself, but he would submit the propriety of advising
On a division the numbers we such a step if they were not perfectly assured of its
For th re— e
motion
Amendment
It was then carried that the expenses of the Conven- attend the calling on the Savings' Banks for their de-
tion to Birmingham be paid. posits, if they gave any instructions to the people on
Dr. FLETCHER then rose to bring forward the report the subject. That. success would be very problematical,
inasmuch that, in the way in which Savings' Banks
on ulterior measures—(Hear, hear)—a subject of the
were protected, they might not pay more than
deepest importance, for as the simultaneous meetings
had been agreed upon, the country would doubtless 10,0001. per day, at which rate it would take
expect that they should fulfil the expectations which four years five months and some days to pay the people.
had been raised as to future proceedings.—( Hear, hear.) (Hear, hear.) But if they make a run on the banks,
Circumstances had recently arisen which rendered it
they
yof maydi dstruepenstthd
roeun
g ith
there w
counotry, we b,en universal feel-
licah would produce
imperatively necessary that they should take a decided
ing
position. The Government had declared war upon the an effect that might be tremendous ;it would then be
who is the strongest. He had no objection that this
people—(Cheers)—and put arms into the hands of one
part of the nation to keep down another—(Hear, hear) should be the first question and leave the others
—and had declared, in terms not to be misunderstood, in abeyance.—(Hear, hear.) If the adoption of
that these arms were to be used in suppressing the the sacred week was had, there would be a great revo-
lution in the country, so much were the poor deter
mined to obtain their rights. He thought the recom-
gaged.—(Hear, hear.) It was necessary, therefore,
that they should show the stand which they too were m_elsrdplation of refraining from the perusal of certain
ers contained in the address, a mere farce.
prepared to take—(Hear)—and the measures which the ne
Theysoupo-ht to direct their sole attention to the banking
Convention were recommended to adopt. But this would
question, it was there alone they would be most effective.
only be put in the form of questions ; they would not be
(Cheering ) Why did not Mr. O'Connor fix a time ?
called on to decide positively on any step, but simply to
say that they were willing that, under certain circum- lie would not commit himself so far, as he knew this was
stances, likely to arise, certain steps should be adopted. a right reserved to the people themselves. Mr. Richard-
-(Hear, hear.) The Secretary would perhaps read the
address.
the banks in many ways, and sat down without say-
Mr. LoVETT accordingly proceeded to read the Ad-
dress to the People, which, after adverting to the mea- ing whether lie would support the resolution or amend-
ment.
sures adopted recently by Government for arming a por- Mr. HALLEY would give his decided opposition to
tion of the people, went on to say that public opinion the adoption of the address.
had been concentrated, by means of the labours of the Mr. RICHARDS argued in favour of the address. He
Convention, in favour of the National Petition, to an said it was well for Mr. Halley to say that it would be
dicious to bring distresses on t
extent quite unprecedented. It had been signed by injuile country ; but
millions of the working-classes—of those who dared to would that gentleman tell him that the most numerous
brave the menaces of employers, and the threats of portion of the community should be compelled to suffer
power—and millions more, of those who dared not unbearable miseries for the sake of keeping up a state
brave the starvation of themselves and families—had of things which will only still heap more inflictions on
responded to the petition in silence. The answer them ? Are the sons of labour to be oppressed 2 withoutHe
to this peaceful and Constitutional application measure, in order to avoid a
little temporary evil
might have been anticipated. The Conven- would recommend a run on the banks.—(Cheers )
tion were prepared to meet the subtle sophistry of A short adjournment took place, after which the de-
Whiggery ; but the worst was now to be feared— bate was resumed by
Mr. Bailie CRAIG, who refrained from saying any
both Whigs and Tories had resolved to unite
to maintain their unjust supremacy. But the thing on the matter, as so much had been said on it
others.
spirit of Englishmen, th© suffering millions of Great by
Mr. CLEAVE was. against the address.
Britain would not submit to the insult—they would
rise against the systematic oppression under which Mr. HIcKENI said
could
ereport had come upon him so
the working classes were morally and politically de- suddenly, that i? not make up his mind on voting
either for or against it until he had more maturely con-
graded.. . it.—(
Hear.)
CARPENTER moved that the Report just read be sidered.it.—,H.ear..) To be sure the Committee may
have discussed it in a proper manner, but lie was of
received and adopted. opinion that each member of the Convention should
Mr. LOWREY seconded the motion. have sufficient time to discuss it, as all were responsible
Mr. WHITTLE opposed the motion. They had been
sa for its results, with this view he would move that the
elected to watch the presentation of the National re- further consideration of it be deferred until Tuesday '
in
tition t o Parliament only, but now a manifesto was pro- Birmingham.
posed v ith regard to ulterior measures. It contained a
Mr. DONALDSON seconded this proposition.
long at gument on the rectitude of the principles for
Mr. Buns would advise a postponement, as they
which they contended, but it did not contain
one coot d of advice to th wtn
e people. It as utterly un- were not quite assured that the people would act up to
e recommendation of the Convention.—( Hear.)
suitable to the discharge of that task which he conceived
Mr. BROWN thought if they went on talking from
they had to perform. The production of the document
at the p resent time, he thought, was a manifesto to day to day on the legality or illegality of the question
v uld never come to a decision. The country
the cow.try that the Convention did not know what to t_'ti'ed -
wo
do.—(llear.) He was against publishing any such magi- did expect shortly a document of this nature, for he
festo. Ile was for returning back to their constituents could say that the people of Birmingham were prepared
and for a i
ing this he would support
urrendering into their hands the trust they had not to pay either rent or taxes.—(Hear, hear.) Know-
reposed in them. Their constituents might return bet- t, but he would not object
ter men, 'f they could, or might adopt ulterior measures, to its being postponed to Tuesday.—(Hear, hear.)
but he thought that all the members of the Convention Mr. WOODHOUSE was for taking it into immediate
had to di was to go back to the and give them advice consideration, and having a decision on it at once, in
and cour.ael, and he should therefore move an amend- order that the people might be early advised on it.
merit that the Report be negatived. Mr. MILES was for postponement.
Mr. SLNKEY seconded the amendment. The recom- Mr, MARSDEN and Dr. FLETCHER seemed to think
mecalatio . in the manifesto to refuse payment of rent; that the run on the Banks were the first question.
and taxes was recommending them to do that which Dr. FLETCHER in explanation, said he did so, bu in
t
was coot, an, to all the principles of Christianity and , conjunction with the general holiday. He thought that
morality. some decisive measure should be taken to promote the
Mr. LrwßEy said the manifesto had been long and objact nearest the hearts of the people While they
I maturely oinsidered. The whole country, when they ! were going on idly agitating during the month of April,
elected their members, thought the presentation of the 1 the oppressors of the people will be concocting and
petition vi is only art of the business they were to per- acting in a thousand ways to keep the people still in
)form, and it the petition was rejected, they were to point ' the same way in which they were at present, or what
out the w.,e in
of the I. .. which the people
carry' the recommendations -•' of 1 Convention.
shoving an'h If they went back to the country without , out recommendations the
, them the wa , to do so they would be acting as l
\ traitors. The and lie I wish, would withdraw his motion.
Mr. CARPLNTF.It in compliance with the general
petitio)n was not et Presented
( would urge that it should not hey prese.nted until' the new 1 Mr.WHITTLE also withdrew his amendment.
Administration
cvvas formed.—(Hear, hear.) As to the ! Upon wliich Mion Mr. l 's
a ; ponernennd neutrality of the principles put forth tof the question until until •' resolution of the pest-
Christianity Tuesday, was put and
1
I in the manifesto he contended that though he seas carried.
bound to pay a man ev )
stances might arise in which he might m
consider himself
ery legal charge, -et circu-
Leave of absence was given to Mr. James Taylor,
Dr. Fletcher, Mr. Deegan, and Mr. Burn for one
' to be exempt from the payment of such. If for in- week.