The Sun.
London, England, 1837-12-15 00:00:00

CENTRAL CRIMINAL COURT.

SENTENCES.
The Session having terminated, the COMMON-SERGEANT
(in the absence of the RECORDER) entered the New Court
in the after part of the day, in order to pass sentence upon
those prisoners who had not received judgment instanter
during the Session.
Mr. Alderman Ittammt and the S!ieriffs attended.
The following were sentenced to tralsportation :
For Fifteen Years—James Walton.
Tea Yea's—Michael Mullins and Thomas Brown.
Seven Years—F. Hayward, C. Mahoney, J• Watts,
W. Moss, J. Tyre, G. Carter, J. Reynolds, D. Gilbert,
E. Marshall, and Amelia West.
The Court then adjourned to the first. day of the en-
suing new year.

rtcrtitous
VoTEs (ScoTLAND).—Committee
nominated Horsman, Lord Stanl ,y, the Lord Advo-
cate, Sir W. Rae, Mr. W. Campbell, Sir 11. Campbell, Mr.
R. Stuart,o Lord Stormont, Mr. D:vett, Mr. B. Baring, Mr.
E. Buller, Mr. G. Hope, Lord J. Stuart, Mr. Hope John-
son°, and Mr. C. Buller ; five the quorum.
The O'Conor Don has been o'diged reluctantly to
pair ofr with Mr. Kerr, the Member for DownpatriA. The
very delicate state of his broth-r's ( Mr. Edward O'Conor's)
health rendered a Folourn tal?r tt milder climate nceessary;
and; by the advice of his physicians, be r.mairel to Torqua:-,
accompanied by the O'Conor Dan.—Dublin Paper.
The military, both horse and foot, who were last
week sent to Halifax in consequence of the late not at Brad-
ford, left the fanner place on Thursday afternoon, for their
respective prior stations,-211anchester Guardian,

Birmingham, Lord Palmerston informed him (for he
only, as it seemed, required . the information), that the
British Government did not intend to compel the
abandonment of it by either party. It was a matter
which had gone by. Lord Palmerston paid some me-
rited compliments to Lord Durham, who had been
spoken lightly of by Mr. Attwood, and declared that
no public man had better or more effectually served his
country than the Noble Earl. Indeed, we may say
that there is but one opinion among all Englishmen
who have been in Russia as to the zealous and ef-
ficient manner in which English interests were at-
tended to ; and the testimony from the British mer-
chants at St. Petersburgh, conveyed to him through a
gentleman of Tory politics, forms the best answer to
the scurrility of the Times on the subject. Lord Dur-
ham's services obtained for him—not, be it remarked,
from a Ministry with which he was politically
connected, but from King William persot:ally,
who could not be considered to have any pre-
possession in his favour—the communication,
signed by the King's own band, which has already
appeared in the Chronicle, dated Windsor Castle,
23d May last, announcing that it was his Majesty's
intention to confer upon him, in approbation of the
manner in which he had discharged his duties as am-
bassador at the Court of St. Petersburgh, the Grand
Cross (Civil) of the Order of the Bath. The death
of the King prevented him from giving effect to his
intention, but this was done by her present Majesty
on the Noble Earl's return to this country. As to
all the silly observations in the Times respecting the
honours received from the Emperor of Russia, it may
be enough to state that they followed, and did not pre-
cede, the honours received from his own Sovereign ;
that the Cross of St. Andrew carries with it all other
orders ; and that the writer in the. Times, in his abun-
dant zeal to find matter of crimination against Lord
Durham, has applied to civilians regulations only in—
tended for military men receiving honours from foreign
Governments. But, more than enough of such a
scribbler. Mr. Maclean, after a few remarks, recom-
mended Mr. T. Attwood to withdraw hiS fruitless mo-
tion, but the Hon. Gentleman refused to comply with
the suggestion, and it was accordingly negatived with-
out a division.— Morning Chronicle.
Few practitioners, in a court now by name aSO-
- could have excelled my Lord Mulgrave in
that shifty dexterity, for which his Lordship has made
himself so remarkable, when the business is to turn
aside, or slip away from, any charge of political delin-
quency, which, if not averted or evaded, would infal-
libly crush him. His Lordship is an exquisite ma-
nager of official .documents, and perfect master of
the art of bringing forward statements which signify
nothing, in reply to accusations which signify a great
deal. His Lordship's mode of treating the motion of
Lord Roden, who sought no more than an elucidation
of facts with regard to the real state of Ireland, was a
pretty fair specimen of his Excellency's peculiar talent,
when the only notice he would condescend to take of
the Riband conspiracy, which under one name or
another does notoriously, in substance, pervade three
proyme
• es of Ireland out of four, was, bring home "proofs
of its existence" to me, and see how I will deal with
them. His Lordship's " dismissal" of Mr. Blake, the
stipendiary magistrate, came opportunely, that is skil-
fully, enough, on the eve of an enquiry which he
knew to be threatened, into the Magisterial as well as
political and other recorded transactions of that gen-
tleman. To the general charge, of having filled the
bench of Magistrates, throughout Ireland, from the
ranks of O'Connell's rebel association, Lord Mul-
grave pleaded—just nothing at all ! To tho charge

independence—the unheard-of barbarities practised
against her people—the violation and forcible occu-
pation of CiacoN—the outrages committed against
England herself in the daring infractioH of treaties,
and the restrictions put on her mercantile operations
by the in,ults offered to her flag, no longer a protection
to her merchantmen—a subject associated with the
victims of tyranny perishing in Siberia, with the recent
violent abduction of Polish maidens to become slaves
to the saves of the Atitocrat, to minister to the wants
of his bondsmen, and become the degraded medium of
propagating a race of slaves—a subject involving the
first interests of Great 13ritain, the first principles of
humanity, and the rights and liberty of the whole
human race—such a subject was but little adapted to
excite the laughter of the British House of Commons.
Captain Crawford sta'ed in his pamphlet that " it
was a strange feeling that came over him as an Eng-
lishman, on finding himself in the Baltic, with twenty-
six line of Russian battle ships, with 30,000 men,
better soldiers than sailors, and four months' provi-
sion on board, knowing that to protect our Channels
and our ports we had only seven line-of-battle ships in
a state of preparation, and those not fully manned."
If we look to the opposite extremity of Russia we
shall not find in the Black Sea the comparison more
favourable to the position or prospects of Great
Britain—still less do we find to console us at the
mouth of the Danube—less still on the coast of Cir-
cassia. Everywhere the tract of the monster is to be
recognized. Treaties violated which Great Britain is
pledged to preserve inviolate ; others formed inimical
to her interests ; her allies trampled on and en-
slaved ; her own subjects treated with indignity
and outrage ; her most valuable dependencies threat-
ened with invasion—under such unparalled aggres-
sions are we to take consolation from the reflection
that it is not probable our own island shall be violated
by the spoiler, or that a Russian fleet shall enter the
Pool or burn Sheerness? Our danger is sufficiently
imminent without such contingencies as these. Russia
knows as well as we du the futility of any open or
direct attack
agencies,)uio:ieur territory ; but there are occult
and iildi which working imperceptibly,
are nut less dangerous to our interests and safety. It
is notorious that Russian emissaries are employed
croac-1
oftlaiatßitepursessieainltagtoivlde
throughouths fieqetei
yv e(ricyc
decided
ethe
f eu
to the British Legislature ; and who can tell but the
laughter wh:eh attempted to make a burlesque of Mr.
Atiwood's motion drew its inspiration from a Russian
chest ? The people of Great Britain are but too in-

different to the foreign relations of the country, yet we
isnaginc there are not many will participate in the
levity with which a subject of such vital importance an
that of Russian agvession was last night dismissA
from the notice of the House of Commons.--Morning

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS.—DEc. 14.
The Lora) CIIkNCELLOR took h;s scat on the Woolsack at

Five o'clock.

Lord FOLEY presented a petition from the mayor, citi-
zens, and others, of Worcester, complaining of the expen,;e
attending the passing private Bills through Parlianymt.
On the mo!,on of Earl SHAFTESBURY, a B II for the
Summoning Juries at Adjourned Quarter Sessions of the
Peace, was read a second time.
PUBLIC BUILDINGS AND ARTS.
Lord BROUGHAM presented a p-tition signed by Dr.
BirkbeTk, the founder of the ,London Mechanics' Institution,
and s..veral other Gentlemen. and many hundreds of the in-
dustrious persons who -:ere in the dabit of attending that In-
stituti,m as members of it. They were N. the most p ;rt men
is hose exTtions for their own improvement were entitled to
tl:e greatest respect. Most of them were journeymen; and
they had maintai e‘i that Institution for a period of 13 or 14
years, by which their habits had become so improved, as to
have entitled them to a situation in society above the ordinary
class of person; in their situation of life. They were Lkewise
so well informed as to be as capable of exercising political
rights as any of her Majesty's subjects whatever, although
but few ef them enjoyed that privilege. All this th.- Noble
and Learned Lord mentioned as recommendatory of their
claim to respect, upon any subject on which they petitioned
their Lordships. The petition was very nearly in

Adro tiser.
The election contest at Sudbury, the ot:ier day, was
foUght anti decided principally, if not altogether, in re-
ference to the Whig Poor Law. The great body of
the'electors seemed to think less of the political senti-
ments of the two candidates, than of their respective
Opinions upon that atrocious statute which was the
" boon" that Whigs and Radicals gave to the labour-
ing classes as the first fruits of the Morrn Act
Mr. Morrison, the Whig-Radical, or 'Ministerial can-
flidate, had, it appears, a lone-established conniction
with the town in the haberdashery line, and, no doubt,
expected to receive, as a great capitalist of that order
might expect, the support of the " ribandmen," of
whom this ancient borough has no small number. But
Malthusian, in Sudbury, where the ladies still have
a voice," stands a poor chance of a Parliamentary
seat, as !he Honourable Member for Kilkenny might
say. Not even all the fascinations of man-millinery
can do away with the sin of M:slthusianism ; for
where would the " science of harberdashery" be
in the next generation if the doctrine of Malthus
were to preveil over that great ordinance of holy
writ, aganst which the Poor Law Commissioners
have fulminated their man awl wife separating
decree ? As to the Conservative candidate, Mr. Bailey,
he, it seems, was a stranger to the borough, whose
acquaintance with the electors was only a few days old;
but he :leclared himself hostile to the new Poor law, in
addition to havng the recommendation of Conservative
principles. The hollow beating which he gave the
Whig-radical is another ins'fance) in addition to the
many which the infatuated Whigs hace received, that, in
enacting that cold-blooded and inhuman mea.7lre
they were accustomed to boast of as the perfection of wis-
dom, they only justified once more the sarcastic obser-
vation of Sheridan, that " the Whigs were perpetually
building up walls to run their own heads against." The
bastile walls which they have built all over the country
are strong enough for the purpose of being used by
Whig statesmen in performing that operation upon their
own skulls to which the witty author of " The School
,for Scandal" declared them to be particularly addicted.
The opponent of Mr. Bailey was one who supported
the Whig Poor-law in all its moods and tenses. In•his
address to the electors he wished to turn a deaf ear id
the subject ; but his audience took care to refresh his
memory by seasonable allusions to it. He preferred,
however, adverting to any other " merits' of the
Whig Ministry to expatiating upon that masterpiece
of their domestic statesmanship—the Malthusian law.
On the other hand, the Conservative candidate de-
clared that he would seek or support the repeal of all
the harsher provisions of the law, and mentioned as
one of the clauses that which he said authorises the
separation of the husband from the wife and the
parent from the child. But we must inform Mr.
Bailey that there is no such clause in the Act ;
and, therefore, his voting against what he calls the
harsher clauses will not remove the great evils
which this law has inflicted upon the deserving poor.
We have said, and all along, and we say so again,
that no nibbline, at the details of this measure will be
of any practical use as long as the tyrant-power which
-the law vests in three Commissioners remains—a power
at variance with the first principles of constitutional
and responsible government—a power which enables
those Commissioners to make regulations, alias laws,
for all the parishes of England and Wales. No re-
form of the Poor-law system which does not strike
away this triple-headed despotism, and give the rate-
payers the control of their own funds, will be any
thing but a delusion. Has the law any clauses which
authorise the sort of medical treatment which the poor
have have received in many of the union work-houses?
It has not; but the irrresponsible authority which it
has established has led to that among most of the
other evils which cause the cry of the poor to go up
to I.7eaven against this cruel and unchristian enact-
ment. It is. absurd, then, to talk about seek-
ing the reFr.l of the harsher clauses of the Bill,
as the remedy for the practical evils which have
arisen tinder it—for the worst of those evils
are not indicated on the face of the Bill at all,
but arc the pestilent emanation of the arbitrary
power which it confers, and which the iiallot-:mongering
Mr. Grote described as not sufficiently arbitrary and
unconstitutional. The view which we have always
taken of this measure must explain to every One why it
is that we take no interest in Ministerial Committees
of Inquiry into the working of this measure ; fur,
leaving out of question the packing of such Commit-
tees by Government, and the partial mode in which'
such inquiries arc usually conducted, our objection to
the principle of the Bill, int confounding poverty with
crime, and for its punishment, delegattnff the bgisla-
tivelunctions of Parliament to a Board of Commis-
sioners, is an objection wholly irrespective of the work-
ing of the measure, though all we know of its working
only increases our abhorrence of the policy of which
the Whigs are the authors—the most democratic of
their Radical allies the abettors—and the labouring
poor of England the miserable victims.—Morning
Herald.
If the Ministry Ine, as Mr. T. Duncombe says it is,
" on its last legs," it is time to watch the indications
which the proximate outs give of the policy with which
the proximate ins will have to contend. It was
threatened in the period of distressful disappointment
just after the elections, and it is now threatened again,
that disturbances of a very terrific nature would take
place, if the Conservatives obtained the Government
of the country. We are warned, in no very ambi-
guous terms. that the result of putting those wonderful
statesmen, Lord Melbourne and Lord John Russell,
out of oflice would be " convulsion in Ireland," and
the placing of the agricultural districts in England
" under the old dominion of Swing." Disgusting and
abominable as are these threa's of political Warfare, it is
well that they should he looked to in time. We are far
from supposing the Ministers themselves, or the prin
cipal men out of the Ministry who give them their
support, would regard with less abhorrence than we
do the mode indicated for embarracsing- their political
adversaries in the event of she Government cominit
into their hands. But we are not so sure that all
those whose notion of rood policy seems to he at
present merely the keeping of a weak Administration
iii office would not. fur the sake of restoring that
Ministry if diTlaecd. lend a hand to any imaginable
'villainy that seemed likely to serve their purpose.
They who are capable of threatening such policy do
not want much more than the occasion, and the
power, to act upon it. Besides, we may be sure
that whenever there is it sycophant there is a wretch
capable of doing anything- wicked to which personal
courage is not absolutek' necessary. The base
parasites of a Ministry who can go so far as to
endeavour to force it down the people's throats that
every political object is comparatively valueless be-
sides that of keeping a certain set of very mediocre
men in the Government—the base parasites who
can do this, and, in addition to this, can throw out
such threatening prophecies as we have alluded to,
would not have to go much further ia the path of
depravity in order to become the accomplishers of
their own predictions. Whether that system under
which " convulsion" can be at any time commanded
in Ireland, and which can also, upon an emergency,
set in action the atrocious industry of the agricultural
inc:JntEary in England—whether that system would he
acted ;you in the event of a Conservative Administra-
tion coining into power, we cannot tell. It might
be
so. E has been threatened that it would be so. But
we trust that Great Britain is not to be dictated to,
and to have her Government imposed upon her by
those to whom villainy so horrible is simply a mode of
maintaining political influence. If there should be a
Conservative Government, and if such means of over-
throwing it should be attempted, we think we may
trust to the existing spirit of the people of England
for dealing with such- opposition as it deserves. The
promoters of " convulsion in Ireland," and of Swing
conflagration, may deem themselves very cunning ; but
their/70/1u may be traced home to them for all that,
if it should be attempted, and national justice would
in that case demand the extremest punishment of cri-
minals so monstrous.—Morning Post.

the same terms as many other petitions
which his Lord,hip hal presented is the cLairso
of the laA Session on the same su'ject. It prayed for a free
and unrestrained access to the various monuments of art in

wcre

this metropolis, including the antiquities of the Tower, the
Monument, St. Paul's, Westminster Abbey, the Models of

the Admir:Otv, ar.d so forth.

Lord RADNOR gave notice that, cn Thursday nex', he
would call the attention of their Lordships to the present s! a:e
of the Universities.

DUCHIES OF CORNWALL AND LANCASTER.
Lord BROUGH ANI wished to mk the Noble Duke opiio-
site (Wellington), whether he had any objection to the ac
counts which he had given notice he should move for re-
lative to the Duchies of Lanca!tcr and Cornwall ; narnniy,
an account of the net ordinary revenue received by the Crown
from the Duchies for the years 1832, 1833, 1834, 1835, and
18:.:6, distinguishing each year; and an account of the am .just
of the tines received f.om the Duchies for the same years, dis-

anguishing each year.
The Duke of WELLINGTON said, if those accounts had
been produced to the other House of Parliament, ho could
not object to their production to their Lordships ; but if they
had not been produced to the other House, he should submit
that those accounts ought not to be produced, because they
were of a clesct iption that would teed to disclose circumstances
relating to that which was undoubtedly private property.
Lord BROUGHAM interrupted the Noble Duke for the
purpose of stating that it was not his ( Lord Brougham's)
intention, if the Noble Duke did resist it, to trouble
their Lordships with the motion to-night, because there
was a Bill of importance that stood for to-night, and
he would rather give a notice for Monday, or any
ether night that might suit the Noble Duke, when
they n;7lat be able to come to a discussion on the subject ;
but at the same time he protested against the notion of the
Noble Duke, that this was private propetty.
The Duke of WELLINGTON said, that perhaps next
Thursday would suit the Noble Lord.
Lord ELLENBOROUGH said the information which the
Noble Lord asked for would be of no value to him, because it
would not lead to what he desired to know—namely, how much
the Crown had to receive in future. He apprehended the
account had not been given to the House of Commons. Besides,
he apprehended her Majesty had no authority to direct
an account to be given of the receipts of his late Majesty.
The servants of his late Majesty wore like the servants
of any private individual, under au obligation of secrecy as to
the transactions between them and their employers. There
was no authority to compel them to produce those accounts,
and be could not help thinking it would be a pi ecedent of an
injurious nature to compel their production. With regard to ac-
counts relative to the future, that was a totally different thing,
because if her Majesty directed her officers in these Duchies
to give an account of the future receipts there could be no ob-
jection to that.
Lord BROUGHAM said the Noble Baron was quit,:
mistaken as to the use which he was pleased to
suppose he (Lord Brougham) would make of them.
Seven or eight years ago, in the Court of King's Bench, the
whole mystery of these Courts was unravelled. He must posi-
tively confess that without much greater discussion than it
was at all likely their Lordships could have on this subject,
he could not admit that there was in this country any public
department whatever which was not liable to the control and
responsible to the authority of the Crown or of Parliament
for the management of its affairs. It was said, indeed, that
the Crown could not compel the authorities of those Duchies
to render an account of their stewardship, because they were
the servants of the late King. He had only to answer that
if the Crown could not compel them Parliament could, He
could not understand on what ground it was supposed that these
estates should he viewed as private estates; even if it were granted
that their legitimate destination was a provision for the heir
soparent to the Throne, still it would be necessary that they
should be subjected to the cont.oul of Parliament.
Lord ABERDEEN thought that it would be impossible
for Ministers to accede to the motion of the Noble and Learaed
Lord. If the papers which he called for were granted, no
Ministry could afterwards refuse to make public all the details
which the Learned and Noble Lord, or any body else might re-
quire to be informed of respecting the affen s of th ,Se Duchies.
In fact it would be a surrender of the Duchies, their mar,ige-
ment and an amalgamation of them with the other departments
of the Government. It would be impossible afterwards to draw any
distinctinn between the revenues of Lancaster, which belonged
exclusively to the Crown, and the other revenues of the county.
The Noble Viscount ( Melbourne) had no business to know any
thing at all about them in his capacity of First Lord of the
Treasury. All knowledge respecting them was sacredly con-
filed to the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, and if
lie observed the oath which he had taken, and by which he
was bound to keep secret the affairs of the Duchy, it would be
impossible for the House to obtain the information which
the Noble and Learned Lord required. The House
had no power to Dnforce the disclosures of each
particulars. If the precedent were once admitted, it
must in common sense be followed up, and Perl:ament
must take the controul of those departments entirely out of
the hands of the Crown. But he did not know on what
ground the Noble Viscount at the head of the Administration
could advice her Msjesty to dispense with the oath of the
Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, so as to permit him to
disclose the confidential particulars of his department, If that
were done in one instance, he ( Lord Aberdeen) did not know
in what way he could oppose the production of any document
however confidential connected with those fcofs.
Lord HOLLAND said that he had received no commands
from her Majesty to communicate the details relating to the
Duchy of which he had the honour to be Chancellor, either
to individuals or to their Lordshitee house. He would only
observe farther that even from the description given of it by
the Noble Lord opposite, this was an extremely inconvenient
subject to discuss when there was no question before the
House.
Lord WINCHIL SEA sincerely hoped that their Lord-
ships would refuse these returns.
BSIHOPRIC OF SODOR AND MANN.

The Earl of RIPON agreed with the Noble Baron oppo-
site (Lord Holland) in objecting to discuss so important a
subject, while no question was before the House. The No `le
Lord then proceeded to present several petitions, of which
he hid given notice sonic days ago, respecting the intended
union of the Bishopric of Sodor and Mann with that of Car-
lisle. The petitioners prayed their Lordships that the ques-
tion might be re-considered, and the Bishopric of Sodor and
Mann suffered to romail in its ancient independent state.
The petitions came from clergy awl laity, not perhaps v ry
numpr.)usly s'rrnr,d, but who nevertheless were entitled to the
respectful consideration of the House, and who were anxious
to convey the expression of their sentiments on the subject t
their Lordships. The petitions from persons in England were
from certain inhabitants of Chester and its neighbourhood; the
Dean and Chapter of Chester ; the Clergy of the dioeese of
Winchester residing in the Isle of Wight—the Dean and
Chapter of Ripon—inhabitants of Norwich, and certain inha-
bitants of Birmingham. He had some others, but he made a
separation of them, because they referred t a suppose I Bill
which they conceived to be about to be discussed in their
Lord,hius' House—(Hear, hear)—but, as there was no
such Bill on their Lordships' table, there might be
some irregularity in presenting them. If the House should
think those who had signed the petitions he had just ad-
verted to were not suffici-ntly informed upon the subject on
which they hid petitioned, to entitle them to have their
sentiments considered by their Lordships, such an ch-
servation could not be made with respect to three
other petitions which he had with him. They were
signed by persons who could not be considered ,ignorant of
the subject, or as merely hiving a remote or indirect in-
terest at stake, but from their personal experience, and the
situations in which they were placed, they were, perhaps,
the best capable of any of judging upon the question.
They were petitions from the Isle of Mann itself, setting
forth the objections they had to being deprived, and the
regret they felt at being about to be deprived, by an Act of
Parliament, of their separate and independent Bishop ; and
setting forth various grounds which they hoped would induce
their Lordships to re-consider the subject. The first
petition was from a Indy of persons equally well qualiti,d
to understand the value of having a resident Wshop,
because they were in the habit of having constant inter-
I course with him. It was signed by the Archdeacon, and
upwards of three-fourths of all the Cl•rgv who were
in the discharge of duties in the Isle of Mann ; and
the Petitioners stated in the strongest manticr that they
could not possibly apprehend this alteration in the
Law bciug attended with any thing but the utmost
inconvenience. The next was from the gentlemen
practising
at the bar in that country, who, from the situation they held
and the profession to which they belonged, had innumerable
opportunities of knowing what was the bearing of questions
which affected wills and property, and all other matters
that came under consideration in the island. They also
implored their Lordships to reconsider this question. The
last petition was one to which every body must attach the
greatest importance. It was signed by 1,600 of the inha-
bitants of the island, comprising all classes of persons ;
and he could not conceive a petition could be presented
more entitled to respect than this against the removal
of that bishopric, which had existed fur upwards of 1,400
years. He (the Noble Lord) bad heard no representation
whatever, going to show that there was the least necessity for
the removal of this bishopric. He was aware it was not a conve-
nient mode to discuss questions on the presentation of petitions,
but he had no other mode of taking an opportunity of stating

The band of the Royal Regiment of Horse Guards
attended at the Palace on Wednesday evening.

THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY, DECEMBER 15, 1837.

in personal communieation with their Bi-bop, and at all :sther
times they eJuld e:)rnmunicate safely- and expeditiously by
post. He, as one of the Commissioners, had set his name to
the Report, and he saw no reaeon to alter his opinion.
The Bishop of SALISBURY said it ought to be well con-
sidered before this change should be enrered upon, whether
or not it was likely to be of advantage. Those who were to
be more iinmediate'y afrcted by it ought to be satisfied that
the change would be a salutary on e He would 'venture to re-
commend that the whole subject should be again taken into
consideration, particularly as their 'Lordships and the most
Reverend Prelate did not seem indisposed to concur in the
suggestions of the Noble Earl ( Ripon).
The Archbishop of CANTER BURY explained. In the
observations which f.ll from him he seas not aaare that he
expressed any opinion Lvouruble to the views of the Noble
Earl. He merely intimated that if their Lordships were cEs
posed to entertain the proposition of the Noble Earl he would
not oppose himself to it.
MUNICIPAL OFFICERS' DECLARATION BILL.
The Marquis of LANSDO \V N E said lie rose for the pur-
pose of proposing to their Lne'ships the second reading of a
Biii that had been sent up from the other House of Parliament.
He did not expect that their Lorc'.ships would oppose the prin-
&pie of the Bill ; but if there were any Noble Lords who thought
that it went too far they would have an ample opportw,ity fur
stating their opinions, and discussing the whole subject when the
Bill should be in Committe.e The object of the Bill was to ex-
tend the Act of George IV., called the Test and Corporation
Acts Repeal Bill, by removing the conscientious scruples of par-
ties of whose services the community were deprived in conse-
quence of those scruples. The Bill proceeded upon the principle
of enabling all classes of society to discharge civil duties who
were capable of so doing, particularly as regarded municipal
offiees. These offic.2s were not, generally speaking, of a na-
ture so desirable as to render them an object of anxious com-
petition. It would be more advantageous to society at large
that all should be admissible to them than that any should be
excluded by reasen of conseientious scruples. The classes
w om it was proposed to relieve by this measure were the
Quakers, Nloraviarv, and Separatists, who objected to the words,
" I, A B, do testify and declare on the true faith of a Chris-
tian," &c. They thoughtpthese words approached too nearly
to the feral of an oath, and were therefore unwilling to take
th m. Amendments may perhaps be prop used in tie Corn
mittee, some of which had been suggested to him. It would
be highly desirable to satisfy the parties as to their conscien-
tious scruples, provided it could be done without a departure
from the safeguards of the Constitution.
The Bill was read a second time, and committed for to-
morrow—Adjourned at a quarter past Seven o'Clock.

to their le-rclships. his anxious hope that there would be found
in these petitions grounds quite sufficient to induce the Com-
missioners on the one hand and her Majesty's Ministers
on the other to think that a case had been made out
allieg for a re- consideration of this question. lie was not
oitne' to blame the Commissioners, cr to impugn any part
of their conduct. lie approved of the selection of the indivi-
duals who composed that Committee. He approved of every
part of the bill, which hid been brought in, in conformity
with the recommendation of the Commissioners, with the ex-
c ‘ption of this single case. As he collected it, the Commis-
sion under which the individuals that had beet selected acted
did not include the Isle of Mann. He was perfectly aware that
an Act of Parliament, giving effect to the recommendation
of Commissioners might be supposed to remedy any d !feet
that might have been made by the Commissioners, and he could
not but think that if the fact to which he had alluded
had been noticed at the time, there would have been
some hesitation, whether in a matter of this kind
it would be proper to give effect to a recommendation when,
in fa: t, the subject of that recommendation was not within
the functions of the Commissioners under the sign manual.
It was however law, and, as such, it ought to be obeyed till
it was a'tered.—( Hear.) He should like to know the exact
ground on which this alteration in the Commission was
!ounded, or what was the necessity for it. The see in
question was a separate see ; and, by the law of the island, the
Bishop of Sodor and Mann possessed powers that were
not exercised by the Bishops of England. The con-
trail they had over their clergy was much more
stringent than in England. —( Hear. ) This bishopric
had remained separate for no less than 1,400 years, and he firmly
beli ved it to be the oldest Bishopric in the British domini gas.
In fact, he could not see any kind of necessity for this measure,
and he w add pass, therefore, to the consideration as to whether
it was expedient or convenient, and on these grounds he
must contend that they ought to depart from the course
which had been laid down. He thought he should be able to
show, not only that there was no convenience in the proposed
measure, but that it was, in a great degree, , positively incon-
venient, both as regarded the Bishopric of Sodor and Mann,
and as regarded the Bishopric of Carlisle. He begged
their Lordships to observe that the alterations which
had bean made in the English Bishoprics had proceeded on
sound and wise grounds ; it went to diminish the territorial extent
of such of the bishoprics as were of unwieldy dimensions in
this respect, and to aid to the duties of others, where the du-
ties as increased would certainly not be onerous. The pinciples
were sound on which these observations were made, for they were
made with reference to a contiguity and distance from the episco-
pal residence ; but when they came to the case of the Bishopric
of Mann, they found that the principle adopted with reference
to its anion with Carlisle was the reverse, and had no reference
to contiguity ; the two Bishoprics were separated by a sea, and a
sea, which if in winter the Bishop of Carlisle were compelled
to sisit his diocese of Mann, would not be found, he believed,
very convenient for passage, and thus, difficulties would be
thrown in the way of that Prelate's communication with
his Clergy.—( Hear, hear.) That the Bishop should reside
in the Isle of Mann was impossible and out of the question.
His visits, toe, must be" few and far between ;" but the Bishop
of Mann, let him point out to their Lotdships, is in a very pe-
culiar manner connected with that island as an actual member of
the Government, and 'as trustee of many charitable institu-
tions, in respect of which he is charged with many duties
which, as it had appeared to him (Lord Ripon), could not be
left unperformed, and which could not be satisfactorily per-
formed if it were settled that a sea was to roll between
the two portions of the bishopric. —( Hear, hear, hear. )
In the course of the last century, an Act had been passed to
insure the residence of the Bishops in the Island, imposing
heavy pecuniary penalties upon them if they were more
than four years absent from their see.—( Hear, hear.) Sup-
pose the local legislature were unwilling to accede to the
proposed arrangement, and should insist upon maintaining the
present law respecting residence—no doubt Parliament could
repeal that law—but was that a case in which Parliament
would be justified in exercising its paramount authority, which
could only be resorted to for the purpose of rectifying that which
could not otherwise be righted? He did not think this a case
in which the Imperial Parliament ought to attempt to controul
the local legislature, which had the power of passing laws of
great importance. The measure would place the Bishop of
Carlisle in a position in which he (Lord Ripon), if he were
a Bishop, should not like.—(Laughter.) The law of Mann
required the residence of the Bishop, but as Bishop of Car-
lisle he could not reside for the greater part of the year in that
Island, alld he would be placed in a position either to violate the
law, which as on@ of the legislature of Mann he was a party to
make, or to neglect altogether his sacred duties as the Bishop
of Carlisle. He (Lord R.) had never heard that the Bishops
of Mann were at all negligent of their duties, or destitute of
of learning. He found amongst them the revered names of
Barrow, and Finlason, and Wilson—the latter equally an or-
nament to the literatu.• of this country, and a zealous
and faithful member en the Church.—( Hear, hear, hear.)
As to the present Bishop it was impossible to impute to him any
neglect of duty-many deficiency of zeal or a'sility. The
Bishop used to be appointed by the Lord of Mann—the sove-
reignty of the Island being vested in the Duke of
Athol ; but since, however, the Sovereignty became
annexed to the British Crown, the appeintment r steel with
the Hume Minister, and in that capacity he (Lord R.) had
been requested and adsised to 4rtnez the see to some other ;
hut he, looking to the local law respecting residents, was satis-
flea that It ;sputa he in the highest degree inexpedient, and con-
, trary t ) the spiritual interests oi the Hand to make any alteration.
Knowing him to be perfectly eortiptste§t for so important a
duty, he proposed to him to take tie of of Bishop. lie
felt it, however, to be his duty to decline it, and that' indivis
dual was now an English Bishop; he filled honourably to himself
the see of Chester. He could not mention the name of that
Rev, p, elate without showing that he highly prlaed his
character and talents. A resident Bishop w of great con-
sequence and impertanee to the Island of Mann. In that
island there was a grievous deficiency of churches, and in
many of the districts of that island, the means of the iehabi-
tants, to contribute to the building of new churches, or the
repair of these already, erected, were next to nothing.
The present Bishop, under such circumstances, thought that
some me :sere via; necessary, and Ire rsised a subsc iption in
this cotintry of nearly 12,000/., by which several new Churches
been had h'ullt, and the old ones repaired. He had also instituted
a society there for the education of the youth cf that Island.
Bishop Barrow had left a stun of money, with a view of
glying education to a very limited number ol'persons intended
for the Church. This property had greatly increased in va-
lue, and with an augmentation to it amounting to 6,0001. in the
whole, a College was estrsh!leheil, which was now affording
to 200 persons education fitting them for any aituation in
life. By the liberality of the Bishop, persons of dirfe
rent persuasions, as well as Churchmen, were allowed
to avail themselves of the advantages of that institution.
The object of one of them, as it was stated, for this alteration
was, that if the Bishopric of Mann were dissolved the revenues
and tithes might be applied to the maintenance of an arelidea.
con, and in aid of the incomes of the working clergy of the
island. Now, no man would more readily contribute to effect
this object than himself, but he thought tliet this could be
perfectly done without removing the Bishop. The Clergy
of the tetanal implored their Lordships not to consult their
temporal interests at the expense of their spiritual interests,
as they expressed it. Of the seventeen parishes, thir-
teen were in the gift of the Crown. Why should not the
tidal, which the Crown now possesses to the amount of SOO/.
per annum In those parishes—why should not this sum, or
et least a portion of it, he appropriated in aid of the incomes
of the I.4aer vicars of these livings. If the adviser of the Cr ,wn
would censent to appropriate only 5301. of it, that sum would
suitied to raise each of those livings to the amount of 150/. a y his
The Bishop was prepared to give up part of the revenue of his
See to improve the condition of the poor clergy generally, and
several of the rtclier inhabitants of the place had placed at
the disposal of the Bishop several thousand pounds for so
desirable an object. He had troubled the House at an Incon-
venient length on this subject, but he 'felt the nature of the
case demand,d it. He hoped he hid said enough to convince
her Majt sty's Goveremeet that the subject we; well worthy of
their con daerition.
'rime Archbishop of CANTERBURY said that the cour-
teens tone in which the Noble Earl 1-ad introduced the sub-
ject relieved him from the necessity of saying anything in de-
fence of the Commissioners, but it was only do . to himself
and to those with whom he acted to say a few words on the
present occasion. Amortevit the duties i nposed upon the Com-
mission was to consider the best means of obtaining a more
equal dist ibritioe of the Episcopal duties, and when it had
been found that there was a diocese with twelve or four-
teen hundred livings, with a population of two millions,
and two other dioceses with populations little short of a
million and a half. and a diocese consisting of not more
than seventeen raWlies, with' a population of 45,000, how
would the Commissioners have done their duty if they had
omitted to propose some alteration with respect to that
diocese? With regard to the plan of the Noble Earl and
the observations he had made, it gave him (the Archbishop
of Canterbury) great pleasure to sec that he was fully
sensible to the wants of the Cletesev of the Isle of Mann.
He, however, did not thiak that 150/, per annum would
be a suffieient income for the Incumbents. lie would not say
another word respecting the plan which, upon the whole, he-
considered a good one ; but he thought he had a right to com-
plain of the invidious light le which some of those petitioners
represented the conduct of the Commissioners. They repre-
sented that they had acted merely for the purpose of vxtin-
gushing a bishopric. Nothing could be more fair than the
manner in which the Noble Earl had spoken of the conduct
of the Commissioners ; but in answer to the representations iu
the !petitions, he (the Archbishop of Canterbury) woold say
that the Commissioners had no object to gain in proposing
the measure. What they wished WAS, not to extinguish a
Bi-hopric, but to transf r the jurisdiction to another
Bich tp-
ric. le conclusion, he would say that he had nO doubt the
110a-se would consider- both the recommendations of the Com-
miesioners and the plan if the Noble Earl.—( 'Ler_ hear.)
A Right Rev. PRELATE, whose name we could n tt learn,
said a few words which were almost inaudible. We under-
stood him to say that the strong feeling expressed by the
under r tlt
people of the island ought to have great weight with the
House before it took any steps in the matter.
The Bishop of LONDON said that, with respect to the
plan proposed by the Commissioners, hp begged leave to say
that it recornmended no innovation of principle, Thorp had
b 'en repeated instances in the Church of union
of sees,
whe-
ther from proximity or paucity of inhabitants ; an ,ui
very Bill by which it was proposed to make the union
of the see of Sodor and Mann to the see of Carlisle a
union had already been effected between the sees of B iitol
and Gloucester—a union of which, he believed, the inhabitants
of both these cities approved. He knew that a late moat Rev.
Prelate, the late Archbishop of Canterbury, who was, per-
haps, as well versed in the history of the Ohurch es qny span,
had always approved of such unions; but in the present, ease
no incenvenience could arise, for at least once in the year the
incumbents of the seventeen parishes in the island would be