The Sun.
London, England, 1839-08-16 00:00:00

EVENING EDITION.

and Learned Friend. It had nothing whatever to do
with any appointments of Justices—it cast no stigma on
the corporation or town of Birmingham—it was a ne-
cessary measure, and he would put it to their Lordships
to say whether it would not be better to have a police
established under an independent and impartial authority
than under any power that existed in Birmingham.
The Duke of WELLINGTON was afraid that
peace and concord, under any circumstances, were very
far from Birmingham, and from the towns situated in
that direction ; and it appeared to him that this Bill
was a necessary conaepence of the disturbances that
had prevailed in that town, and of the state of the
question depending in a court of law respecting the le-
gality of the grant of the charter to that town. He
believed that charter had been granted with great pre-
cipitation, and that the consequence was that the Town
Council had not the power of levying a police rate. If
the question should be decided against the legality of
the charter, it would be absolutely necessary that there
should be some power of regulating a police, and if that
power were not gives by this Act, the town might again
be in the same disturbed state that it had been in be-
fore. He considered, therefore, the Bill to be neces-
sary. The appointment of the Justices was another
consequence of the granting of the charter. The
Government had, likewise, not in October, but in
Januarynast, granted Sessions of the Peace to
the Corporation of Birmingham ; and being
granted, that a Noble Lord in the other House
had appointed certain persons to be Justices,
for
whose appointment he was responsible. But if it
should be found that the granting of the charter was
illegal, he believed it would be found also that the
granting of the Sessions, and the appointment of the
Justices, would be equally null and void, and which ren-
dered it still more necessary that care should be taken
that by this Bill a Commissioner should be appointed
independent
of take charge of the police totally
of the eharter.—(Hear, hear, hear.) The appoint-
ment of those Sessions at the time the Chartists were
moviog about the country was certainly veryimproper;
and he quite agreed with his Noble and Learned Friend,
too, that no person should have been appointed to be a
Justice of the Peace who was supposed to have par-
taken of the sentiments of those persons.—(Loud
and continued cheering.) But there was another very
curious circumstance attending this Commission,
which showed the haste and want of considera-
tion with which all this had been carried into execution.
It had been held by the highest legal authorities in the
kingdom that the Magistrates of the county of War-
wick ought to have been in the exercise of a concurrent
jurisdiction with the Town Magistrates in Birmingham,
yet the Lord Chancellor, who should have known the
subject correctly, had inserted the names of several
County Magistrates in the list for the town.—(Hear.)
,He felt strongly the importance of making provision for
the maintenance of the peace in Birmingham, and with
that view he should vote for the Bill.—(Hear, hear.)

Lord BROUGHAM said he did not dispute the ne-
cessity of giving Birmingham a good police, he only
objected to this mode of giving it. A Corporation had
been given to superintend the police, and until they had
been found incompetent they ought to be allowed to re-
tain the management of it. If they desired the loan of
money, they should have it, though in Birmingham they
said they did not want it. To say that they should not
manage their police because their charter was disputed,
would be to argue for virtually disfranchising every
Corporation similarly circumstanced.
Lord DUNCANNON said the Government consi-
dered that if the public money were granted for main-
taining the Birmingham Police, they had a right to see
that an efficient police was maintained. The Bill, how-
ever, was only for two years, and. at the end of that
time, if the Corporation made provision adequate to the
purpose, they might have the management again.
The Earl of WICKLOW said he thought the best
plan would have been to have established in Birmingham
a police force similar to those which had proved so va-
luable in London and Dublin.—(Hear, hear.) It having
been found that but for the aid of the Metropolitan Po-
lice the town of Birmingham might have been now de-
stroyed, the Government, after the evidence of the neg-
lect or incompetence of the Corporation, would have
grossly neglected their own duty, had they not brought
forward this measure for the establishment of an efficient
police in the town. And after all that he had heard for
and against, he should give it his support.—(Hear.)
Lord BROUGHAM said, seeing the majority o
the House in favour of the Bill, he should not divide
their Lordships against it. He could not help bearing
his testimony to the admirable conduct of the Metropo-
litan Police, which had more than answered the most
sanguine expectations.—(Hear, hear.) But it could
not pass Temple-bar, let it be recollected.—(A laugh.)
It had nearly passed that boundary not long since—
true—but the city had four Members, Birmingham
only two—(A laugh)—and 14 clauses of the Bill were
at once cut off to appease the incensed citizens, so that
the city seemed a kind of " land of Goshen"—sacred
from the intrusion of any foreign police.—(A laugh.)
The Bill was read a second time.
ROGUE MONEY (SCOTLAND) BILL.
Lord DUNCANNON moved the second reading
of the .Rogue Money Bill.—(A laugh.)
Lord BROUGHAM observed that the Bill had not
been introduced into the Commons until this present
month.—( Hear.)
The-Earl of GALLOWAY felt bound to declare
that the Bill was really required in Scotland, for the
pucikose of making the necessary provision to preserve
or'ler.

Lord DUNGANNON said the Noble Earl bad
rightly stated the case.
Lefd BROUGHAM said he expressed no opinion
on the Bill. Ail he said wa,, that they were called on
to legislate without knowing what it was about—( A
laugh)—or without having time to learn. If the Bill
were important, why had it not been introduced be-
fore ?—(1-lear, hear.)
Lord DUNGANNON said the Scotch Members
had certainly been motions that it should be brought
in earlier, but it had been deemed proper to postpone it
till an analogous measure had been brought in for Eng-
land, for the title of the Bill gave but "a queer idea of
its object—it was called the Rogue's Money Bill—he
could not Op that.—(A laugh.)
Lord MELBOURNE said the object of the Bill
was to give Scotland a more efficient polce. He did
not know much about it—(A laugh)—but those who
did had instructed him to say that by the Act of Geo. 1.,
passed in 1724, the freeholders were to assess
in their several counties money to defray the charge of
prosecuting criminals, and subsisting them while im-
prisoned. Now his Noble and Learned Friend, who
did not appear to know what " rogue money" was, had
legislated for it in the Reform Bill for Scotland, which
transferred the levying the money from the freeholder to
the Commissioners of Supply, and the object of this
Bill was to provide that the assessment should be not on
the old valuation, but on that of the new prison system.
Lord BROUGHAM—Yes; we know now what
" rogue money" is, but not what the Bill is. We are
to legislate on trust. The Bill really goes to
establish a new constabulary in Scotland.
The Earl of GALLOWAY—No, no.
Lord BROIiGH AM—Well, then, I should like to
hear what it does do.—(A laugh.)
The Earl of GALLOWAY said, by the Act of
George 1., the assessment might be made for appre-
hending, prosecuting, and subsisting, prisoners ; but
not for establishing a preventive police force, to effect
which desirable object this Bill was calculated.
Ldrd• BROUGHAM—Then it really does establish
a new police in Scotland. Now, that certainly is a
great measure.—(Hear, hear.) Some may object to it
on constitutional grounds—(Hear, hear, from Earl
Stanhope)—but undoubtedly it is a measure which, if
important to be speedily passed, should have been read
a second time in the other House before the sth Au-
gust.—( Hear, hear.) My Lords, we have been occu-
pied lately in throwing Bills out, I might almost say
"by the score "—(Laughter)—because introduced
first in July. But this Bill did not enter the House
of Commons till August. We have no time to examine—
we are to legislate, because we are told it is, required.
What it is we know not. We must doubt that it is a good
measure, because, my Lord, it is well to stand still in
the dark—(Laughter)—and that is the surest course
for le@islators.—( Hear, hear, from Lord Lyndhurst.)
If we allow this Bill to go on it will encourage the
ladies of the Government, teaching them that the later
they bring in these Bills the less it will he discussed,
e and thereby inducing them never to produce their mea-
sures till the end of the Session.
The Duke of RICHMOND said, from all he bad
h eard, this Bill waa universally desired in Scotland, where
at presets the middle and lower classes were without
protection-to their property. Prevention, it should be
• considered, was better than punishment--,(Hear)—and
'he Bill was only permissive.
The Bill was read a second time,
e
TRADE WITH R
Viscount STRANGPORD presented a petition from
certain merchants in London, complaining of the inter-
ruption on the part of the French Government to the
Bristish trading to the port of Portendic. The Noble
Viscount warmly supported the petition, and state
that as the petition would best speak for itsetf
would read it. The petition was as follows • he
To the Right Honourable the Lords Spiritual and Tern..
poral in Parliament assembled.
The Petition of the undersigned British Mer.
chants,
Humbly sheweth,
That your petitioners have been for some years engaged
in carrying on a trade in gum at the British port of Por-
tendic, on the western coast of Africa :
That, this article is one of great importance to many of
the staple manufactures of Great Britain, and that the
Ettliiih trade therein at the said Port of Portendic has
been observed for more than a century with great and in-
creasing jealousy by the French merchants established in
the:Senegal.
That a tribe of Moors denominated the Trazars is sup-
,to exercise considerable influence over the direction
thinArade in the interior of that part of Africa where
gum is principally produced ; that the French thought
dealt-re war against this tribe in the year 1.932, and
, under the pretext of carrying on the said war, the
ivernor of the Senegal caused a report to be circulated

[s64
\ . . '..1
i

towards the close of the year 1,333 that he intended to
blockade the coast of Portendic.
That your petitioners, astonished at so extraordinary a
menace, sought for protection against it from his late Ma.
jesty's Government, in consequence of which the British
Ambassador at Paris ( Earl Granville) was instructed to
inquire whether anyisuch intention existed on the part of
the Government of France, when a reply was given that
they had no such intention.
That notwithstanding this solemn pledge, the Governor
of the Senegal despatched two ships of war in July, 183.4,
to the said British Bay of Portendic, where two English
merchant vessels, the " Governor Temple" and the " In-
dustry," chartered by two of your petitioners were then
engaged in carrying on the gum trade with the Moors;
that these two vessels were ordered by the. Freneh Com-
mander to quit the Bay without taking in the cargoes of
gum prepared for them on the shore; that the English
captains refused to obey this order, whereupon one of
the French ships anchored close to the coast, and com-
menced firing upon the Moors with grape and round shot;
that the English flag was placed upon the gum collected
on the shore intended for embarkation ; that the flag was
fired upon by the French; that the two merchant vessels
were captured, taken to the Senegal, and not restored
until much of the benefit of the voyage was lost to the char-
terers, and that after upbraiding the two supercargoes in
the most insolent language, the said Commander ordered
them on board his ship, where he detained them for se-
veral days as prisoners.
That an official proclamation having been previously is.
sued, the said British coast of Portendic was actually block-
aded by the French on 15th of February, 1835, and an
adequate force stationed in the Bay to maintain the said
blockade, which was continued without intermission for
more than six months.

That the " Eliza," belonging to one of your petitioners,
which had arrived at Portendic a fortnight before the com-
mencement of the blockade, and had landed and disposed
of part of her outward cargo, and was prepared to ship
from the shore the gum bargained for in exchange, was
violently boarded, taken possession of, and conveyed out of
the harbour by the French marine, leaving the gum on the
beach ; and that subsequently several other vessels belong-
ing to your petitioners, which were proceeding to that place
with cargoes of dry goods, in order to procure gum in ex-
change, were driven away by the blockading force.
That the practical result of these proceedings has been,
in the first place, to inflict actual losses on your petitioners
to the amount of 100,000/. ; and, in the second place, to
cause intercourse between the English and Moorish dealers
in gum a derangement, which has not been since found
susceptible of any permanent remedy, and that the trade
may be said to have passed from your petitioners almost
wholly into French hands.
That your petitioners lost no time in preferring claims
against the Government of France for indemnity for the
heavy losses which they have sustained by reason of the
outrages herein stated; and that her Majesty's Govern-
ment, and the Law Officers of the Crown, having taken the
said claims into consideration, have found them, after the
most minute examination, to be valid and just in every
respect.
That the claims of your petitioners for redress having
been forwarded by her Majesty's principal Secretary of
State to the Government of France, such redress has been
refused by the French upon various pretexts, all of which
have been pronounced unsatisfactory by the Law Officers
of the Crown.

That in answer to the repeated applications made by
your petitioners to the said Secretary of State, requesting
that he would obtain from France the indemnity to which
he admits they are entitled, his Lordship has stated that
he has done and is doing every thing in his power in order
to obtain such redress for your petitioners.
That nevertheless year after year passes over without
such redress, or even any prom►se of ►t, being procured
from France, and that thus the losses inflicted upon your
petitioners in the years 1834 and 1835, have been very
seriously aggravated, not to mention the further injuries
which they have since sustained by the almost total termi-
nation of their trade at Portendic.

That, under these circumstances, your petitioners appeal
to your Lordships for protection, and trust that you will
take such steps as may seem most meet in order to procure
for your petitioners indemnity for past injuries as well as
security for their future trade.
That your petitioners are far from soliciting the adop.
tion of any measures which might affect the amicable
relations now so happily subsisting between England and
France ; but, at the same time, they humbly conceive
that the treatment which they have received from the
authorities of France is such as cannot be tolerated
without compromising the honour of her Majesty's Crown,
and exposing the rights of her subjects to frequent violation
in every quarter of the globe.
That the examples recently afforded by the French Go-
vernment of their determination to enforce by the most
energetic means the claims of French merchants against
the States of Mexico and Buenos Ayres, cannot be left
out of your Lordships' consideration on this occasion, and
that it may be useful to impress upon that Government
the expediency of yielding to others that measure of jus-
tice which, to the great injury of neutral countries, they
have demanded and by force of arms obtained for them.
selves.

And your petitioners, as in duty bound, will ever pray,&c.
The Noble Viscount then proceeded to contend, that if
the British had a right to the trade, which right he
thought was unquestionable, the Government were
bound to uphold it by every means in their power. The
various statements contained in this petition had been
brought under the consideration of another Assembly
last year by the Hon. and Learned Member for the
Tower Hamlets—(Sir S. Lushington)—and who made
a motion in that House for the production of papers,
but which motion was withdrawn on the assurance of
the Noble Lord the Secretary for Foreign Affairs that
the Government was negociatin;; with France in the
transaction, and that the production of those papers
would be prejudicial to that negotiation. But that Noble
Lord admitted all the facts contained in the petition
that was then presented. Although no one could
be more desirous of seeing the good under-
standing that at present existed between France
and England continued, yet God forbid that England
should certainly put up with insult and injury for fear of
breaking it. He hoped the Noble Viscount at the head of
her Majesty's Government would take the matter into his
serious and earnest consideration. He was satisfied that
this great commercial community would never suffer such
continued insults and injuries, and unless the matter was
taken up in a proper tone and spirit the most alarming dis-
satisfaction would exist through the country.—( Hear.)
Viscount MELBOURNE acknowledged that this was
a matter for serious consideration, and that it might lead to
serious results, unless some means could be found for termi-
nating it in an amicable manner. Undoubtedly it was obvious
that a great outrage had been committed on her Majesty's
subjects, and that great injury had been done. But there
had been no want of attention on The part of her Majesty's
Government in making remonstrances on this subject. He
thought great injustice had boon committed by the agents
of France in that part of the world—( Hear, hear)—but
the French Government had not viewed it in that light,
and he was sorry to say they had talon quite an opposite
and contrary view of the subject. He could assure the
Noble Viscount that the matter had been pressed on the
consideration of the French Government in the most
earnest and serious manner ; and he did hope when it
came to be maturely considered by the French Government
it would be viewed in a just light, and that due reparation
would be afforded to her Majesty's subjects for the injuries
they had sustained —(Hear, hear.)_

MEDICAL REFORM.

The Marquis of LANSp 0 WNE presented a petition

from the Provincial Medical and Surgical AssOciation,
composed of 1,200 persons, praying for a reform of the
medical profession, and that an alteration might be made
in the present mode of examining medical students.
SLAVE TRADE (PORTUGAL) BILL.

Lord MELBOURNE Then rose to move the second
reading of the Slave Trade ( Portugal) Bill. His Lord-
ship observed that it would not be necessary for him to in-
trude on the time of their Lordships for a very long period.
The provisions of the Bill, and the powers which were
required to be conferred, were stated in a very clear,
simple, and distinct manner in the preamble. They were
that those persons employed by her Majesty in the seizure
of vessels engaged in the slave trade might be indemnified
against suits and actions brought against them for carrying
into effect such orders. He thought their Lordships would
see it was necessary, after all that had been done by this
country, to take some decisive step in this affair. It had
been said that slavery instead of decreasing, was, not-
withstanding all the measures that had been adopted, in-
creasing. One point was certain, that whether they had
increased the amount of it or not, they had greatly ag-
gravated and increased the sufferings which were ex-
perienced under the system—the sufferings and hor-
rors depicted so ably last Session by his Noble and
Learned Friend. It was a general feeling entertained
by all, and had frequently been expressed by their Lord-
ships, that it was their duty to do everything in their
power to put an end to this traffic, and to finish the good
work they had begun. Unfortunately they had had the
cupidity of man to deal with. Such was human nature
that where gain was concerned every horror and every
misery was disregarded, and that having had to be en-
countered, the complete success that had been anticipated
had not been accomplished. Among the nations in which
this trade was carried on he was sorry to say that Portugal
stood distinguished in this most iniquitous traffic. It was not
his intention to use any invective or strong language, because
he trusted their Lordships were resolved upon taking such
strong steps as to render that quite unnecessary. He would
refer to Lord Howard De Walden's report, to the address
voted by the House last year, and to the address voted
only a few days ago by their Lordships to her Majesty,
praying her to take such steps as would put an end to this
trade. Her Majesty had complied with that prayer—
( Hear, bear)—and ordered directions to be sent out to her
cruisers to take the most efficacious measures of carrying
out the spirit of the last address.—( Cheers.) And he
presented this Bill, as being necessary to carry out their
Lordships' own pretensions upon this great and important
subje'•t. And with these observations he begged to move
the second reading of the Bill.
The Duke of WELLINGTON believed that there
was no proposition more true than that this trade had in-
creased of late years;and been extended to parts of the coast
from which it had 'been entirely expelled 25 years ago.
But the proposition he contended for was, that this trade
suiclihtaray
ought to be put an end to, and the treaties on the subject
enforced by diplomatic arrangements, or, if necessary, upon
question. measures,
thern responsibility of her Majesty's Ministers, by naval or
knowledge of the details of the circumstances attending
a dlvotircoeubtohtt ht
to
be a Parliamentproceedingcould
of her Ma-
jesty upon the her Ministers. This. was . the
ground he took a few da s
y go. It was impossible for him,
or for any of their LordshiPa
on the other side of the'or three of them
Lordships, two
House, and in her Majesty's
Councils, to know what
were
disposal of her Majesty to car the means at the
carry into execution these
measures, much less were they able to judge of
the consequences of carrying such measures into
execution ;or of knowing if the attempt to carry them
into execution should be resisted, and the commerce
eotf
this
country thereby endangered, what ought to be done?