The Sun.
London, England, 1808-05-24 00:00:00

Fr"
:4"

i
.1- • flie and. a ' just criterion. The price of.barley,
lte contended, had risen since the coiiina;nce-
men( Of the ~-,54.->tit di,l4:ussion. Thotigh be should not
sity that the •son:,ti,,n of the Country w,is such as to
, - ju,;i;y apprehensions of scarcity, it waq such as to
call . for niezisurog of 'preeaution, and sten tileasure
were als., ays hest when called tOr h prudence than
when urutieo by ,necessity. Gendernen, had said
that they cHd not wish the price of provisions to he
too high, and be should say that he did not Wish it

to be too low. He too was intilled to rank amongst
the landed Gentlemen, and though he did not cut a
figure at public meetings, nor was a Member of the
• Board of Agriculture, he had beetraa extensive and
a suceesful fanner, When 'fittniletnen talked of
tprie, as :the criterion, it, wateele,'%ult to comprehend
precisely what was meant; af Right Ham. Friend of
his had defined the precise amount to be a remu-
nerating price. But that musk be-considered as well
with a view to the landlord as the farmer. The
Hon. Member adverted , to- various 'cases in Nor-
folk, Essex, Su'ffolk, and Wales, to show the great
rise of rent*, as the remunerating price to the land-
, lords. Then as ,to the farmers,' the remunerating
price must be such as will insure them against a
short crop, and that not only of barley but of other
grain, as shall enable them to live well, as they are
known to do, better than their ancestors or ttte an-
cestors of their landlords, and to make provision
' for their families. His-opinion was, that the price
of lands was too high, the profits of farmers too
high, and the price of provisions much too
Kt: ;bought
,that Gentlemen who meant well did
mischief by associating- as they did with farmers,
sand gn log them a ncatoo that they were Gentleieen.
The West India planters,' who had been _reduced
by theaCts of this Country (forcing all the sugar of
the conquered Colonies into it) from a state of
productive income to their present. situation, in
which_ they receive' nothing, were entitled to re-
lief. Their produce yielded above four 'millions
to the revenue, they employed. 17,00 seamen, and
had contributed greatly to the increase of balance -of
trade in favour of this Country:. The whole Mal
port of suear in this Country was 290,000 hogsheads,
the consomption about 200,000, 'and the quantity
brought in
,o this country from the conquered colo-
nies about silly thousand hogsheads. It 'the colo-
nies were to he threwn into a state of despair, it was
impossible to say what might be the consequence.---
A storm was gathering and would-burst speedily, so •
that no time was to be lost. The aonies could not
be kept upon the present conditions; one third of the
Island' of Jamaica was under foreclosure, and ano-
ther th;rd-wes likely to be so. The slaves, when
they saw theAlisproportion between the white and
black populatton increasing, would have some bad
things put into their heads, and there could be
no _doubt, that these circtunstatices would have
ran effe6, when their supplies of clothibg and
food, which= they derived frotn this Country and
Anteriea„ should be. stopped, as they would' in the
resteit year. The Honourable Baronet (Sir W. W.
Vyne) had said that he 'was
__ready to give relief in
any way bet the present. The only other way he
knew of relief was to allow the West India Planters
to barter their produCe with the Aniericans for the
provisioei whiCh they. wanted. The West
, Planters, confined to the British market, obligio':
,to navigate with braish ship!, anal to take British
goods exelusi§-ely, were entitled•ta protection ; and
tbr them, who were too Much beaten down, to de-
mend an, equality of rights, lie thought he might
humbly claim, and that it would not be too touch to
ask Of the HOuse to give, that which would be but ,
a -trifling inconvenience to the Landed Interest. The
Landed Interest bad been benefited by the fortune
of war, which liad ruined the .West Indies, The
Landed .Interest was to supply the country with
, • core, as the' West ladies were with sugar. The
West Indies had perforated what was expected from
them, whilst the landed interest had failed : and the
landed interest was rewarded by the high price in
cooseqttence of the stoppage of importation, whilst
the West India Planters were ruined by, having no
price at alt.i The Hon. Gentleman then proceeded
to' review, ,with great ,ability mid sound reasoning,
.the various objeaions that had-been urged against
the measure, shewing their inconsisteoey and weak-.
ness. At one time the measure was represented as
likely to lower the price of barley, at another to raise
it ;: then it,was foituded on a dangerous principle, or
would establiSh a dangerous precedent, and was ob-'
jeOionable as_ containing a dangerous - doctriae.- It
had been said, that Parliatnent:onght not to ieterfere
with the corn laws, but the West India Planters
ebbed only to have equal terms to meet,the barley
in,the disc ittc.t iea, and the present regulation \vas 4/-
twirled only to protea the landed interest and the
revenue,. Whatever relief the Planters sought,
though the case was allowed on all hands to deserye
commiseration; they encountered some opposition
from' those whose interests might possibly be afteded
by granting it Many particular. He had hoped that
this measure had not. been taken up as a party mea-
s sure.. He bad, ho never, last night found upon his
table a lettere in the setae hand as usual, " requesting
his attendance this day most particularly and earnest 7
ly, as the measure respeCting the use of sugar in dis-
tilleries was to be again opposed and an early divi-
• sien was earned to take place." If this opptisiion
*as of a party description, the persons who entered
into that view would gain little by it, because,
though the Minister, in consequence of some of hfis
friends oaring again-a him, might be left in a miharl
~ iy, he. would not lose'his place; and the Gentlemen
• would be. left where they were. The letter may
beve been 'Written by some impostori'and -he lied
mentioned the circumstance, only in the hope that
sot...!e Gentleman would explain how - this had hap-
,
peoed.
Mr. Duti.DAS concurred in- the general principle
laid dewn -by 'his Blain Honourable Friend (the
Citrate:Hot of the Eitelieratter for Ireland) as to the.
propriety of nut ioterferwg with the corn -laws, an
interference which could not be prOdeCtive of any
beneficial' eenaeqiietice. ..I.4ut, 'at the same time, he
must alloW that there were: extreme cases, in which
it Would be necessary to resort to se,th interference.
The question therefore was, whether the present
eircunedarices el this Country were such as to 'Con-
Stitt4ll a dire Uf that deseription. The late crops of
eme,ey and omits had been Sebrt, but not the crop of
eat., Teceigh there Wefe`no diteger of scarcny At
e :tett, yet they ought to look to the future, and in

LONDON : Pviteed ty
At the Se)l4-01,P

the event of a short crop. this season, they ',would ; tlie preseet question. Muetteef the objeeeione. that
riot he. justifisd in ore leavieg w the I e nave Ge. were urged to. the Measure were matter of revile-
vet-fine:in the pireei of giving to toe eon- - Wien as to the mode of cat-tying it into effea, and
-semption that amount of corn which was coteente d were therefore additional mastitis for going into the
in the distilleries. He did lee agree either weh Committee. He denied thal the ri!.e',i'ltich had
those who stipiehted this as a •colonial measure, '-ur. lately taken place in-the price of grain had arisen
with those .who defended it on the scnre of exisiitice ' front the agitation of thi's. measure, or from, tiis stetee
or apprehended scarcity, but with a view to the nienta in the House. 'I he sole cause of that rise
great national-interests which It was calculated• to was the inadequacy of the stock to the &mewl. It
promote.. i was impossible for Government to take the measures
Mr.. G. PONSONBY disclaimed allknowledge of tha that seemed necessary,.. other wise than ' through
letter 'cited by his Hon, Friend (Mr. Barham), and Parliament. To proceed by pr&lamuion would
declared that this was the last question 'he should i litte the effect of spreading consternation through-
have thought of, shaking-a party question, He had out the country, and the Flon. Gentleman opposite
himself a very 'stroitgobjedion to the measure pro.. would have been loudest in complaint. if that course
posed ; some of his friends were as-decidedly in fa- had.beeu pursued.
vour of it. He regarded the measure as involving. a l • Mr. WHITIIREAD' compared the cry of scarcity
&etA breach of the Ad of Unk 'with Ireland. He raised at present to the cry of the Church Witte in
deprecated sucl • interference with this cdmpa&, j danger, raised in the same quarter on a fortneeoccae
w4icliesliould be held. sacred and indispensable.— 1 seine. He adverted to the folly of all theschemes
When once the example of violation was set,
_there of relief snggested in Parliament in the' former
would be no reserve in the imitation. He considered scarcity, the brawn bread, and the Lords giving up
the present measure as going direaiyeto deprive the their tans. The interference of Parliament in such
Irish distiller ofithe access to the British market, to cases would always be-marked' with, the same folly
which,' under the Union, he was entitled. Recon- and the same inutility. As. to the question, of whe-
sidered it also as depriving the farmer of the fair titer this was or was not a Ministerial measure, there
market for his commodity. Thecry of searcitk, was . win strong reason id think at least the Noble
now, abandoned and retracted, and the measttre 'came : Duke at the, head of the Administration was ad
I'..back to its originet and proper character of a relief- to ! verse to it. We Professed, the greatest willingness
the West India planter.. By shutting• the to trket of to relieve the West ladle Merchants, who he con-
the distilleries against corn, and opening it to sugar, videred had a sort of claim oat Parliament for its
the growth of sugar-would be encouraged, and that intervention with there in the abolitioo of the Slave
of corn discouraged. That is, a aupoly of an art iele Trade. ,
not useful in point of food would belsept up, while Mr, W. Smelt submitted that he hack some time
that of tlie• most necessary article of thod would be' since made a communication to the Chancellor of
studiously diminished. The only advantage Ireland.- the Exchequers of his apprehension ees' en eventual
derived from the Union was,. the 'free access to the scarcity in Norfolk; Tins was pow several menthe
British market for the produce of its agriculture. He since ; but at. all event" he did not think the pre-
denied that there 'teas a scarcity now in Ireland. In sent Measure calculated to ressatetly the evil if it was
one port of this CQUlltry alone, Liverpool, there had likely to coine on.
been imported from Ireland, from eeth April to
Mr. WlL.AsstFoneD defen.led the measure aa.
• tuth May, 1263 quarters of wheat, .293, qpatters of
matter sit .recaution. It was not necessary that a
barley, and 14,809 (loaners of oats. isitnistera
. scarcityshot tett woe to justify the adoption isUCh
ought it tve no power ot interfering eithagrieul-
measures under the. present cifciernstances. When
lure;, etstee4e. in extreme cases, on their own respon-
at.t tne sources of foreign relief were stopped up, it
wlech, when, properly exeecised, :Paha-
was necessary to be on our pert' much earlier then if
-ment would never refuse to 33(laiUll b.y au Act of . 'open,tiniezus,fentractiebsrowedere,fieillean47:f ‘4i.,,,scidgetniTaitynealtiettopto
Indemnity.
..Mr, Deeues explained.
I the.,West India. Merchants, whom he thought in-
Mr. HIBBEKT stated the substance of the preceeoe
titled to the consideration of the House on every
Tugs of the former Committees on the subjece under ,
eround, arid to his coitaieletatipn .particuletly on 'LC-
disCUSRIOII; The matter referred to the pre:talk coin- . • • • ' •
count of the injury tie.may be-erroneously
matee wits, how tar it' 10.1 Y oeexPvdie"t° c"tain° to hate done them, in bringing forwartl the,
the distilleries to the use suear only, ate instruce
Abolition of the Stave Trade. ac " could uat help
lion which would never have beet,- eiveti it bad
observing, that though this To:1%0On, was studiously
not been thought that such a measure could b©
disclaimed as a party question by the Hon. Gentle-
brought forward on British groireas.. .'rhe tee,
I.l°Y- mass apposite, the 'argument connedieg it With
meet of sugar in the distilleries.was,ceeateeree by
certain sujimied proceedings on the Catholic Ques-
the Cottunittee merely as secondary ate! subsia gave scene grouod for the imputation.
-diary obje. thou ght'Llen nothie 'g -aveld teed: '
iduru-BINNII4O Made a short reply
,so much tckle away the atßreliension of scarcity, or
Mr. M"LEOD said a few words ; but the cry of
to preeele. impropernse in the peiev of grant, as
to see that Ministers took early prtx3utions, and that Question bscaine so loud that aye could not collect
they did not wait till the evil actually cameaan. Itiough the tenor of the I-jun. Gentlemae's observations:
,
no scarcity was yta telt in the great markets, woteh The House then divided •on the Speakers having
were the scenes of general resort, it was felt: in the coair,
Ayes t63--Noes :17-,-majafify ege
miens parts of. the Country. 'rife Hon. IVlember• -
went ,eito a geoeral stetement of rite elaioes• end On strangers being re-admitted into the galley,
of the Wete
slndia Islands, and co aft eltefiee We nneerstood that the tbrt' Rttsolutions
chid i,up o ell Mad proforma, with an understanduag. that the brat
.India
maertaises..
The SOLICITOR GENE:HALof Scotland supported two should be recommitted on Friday next. After
the measure on lergegrourids. He had no desire to s cotwersation between Lord MILTON, Mr. C)KE,
serve any one interest at the expellee. of another, Mr. W. SytTu, and Mr. PERCRYAL, in whichsite
He thought it matter of indispensable prudence us latenette of the hour was stated as en argument foe
stop the distillation from grain, ill order to gYard not ,entering into any-further discussioo. of the. gees•
against a scarcity. lion at present;
Sir H. MILDMAY acknowledged the -claims, and
felt for the. distresses of the \Vest India proprietors. ' Was deferred till Wednesday; after which the other
He would have no objection to Word relief by a re- J orders set • dudion Of the duties oe sugar, by opening a new m I ar- flier day were disposed of, end the House
adjeerne4 et two-o'clock.
ket for that article, or by a loan ot Exchequer Bills,
But lie could not consent to ail imerference which
would Orange the whole system of British agricul-
ture, on the faith of which system 11,000 acres had
been recently brought into cultivation, This in.
crease of culture would not be kept eup- if the en-
couragement of the fair market was not suffered. to
operate. The land bore ,a vast proportion of the
public hurt hens,. pour-tax, 7,000,0001 e Jendetax,
which, though a vast, wise, and beneficial tax, '.was
extremely heavy, and the whole weight of the mi-
litia. He argued on the low state of the present
prices of grain, as affording proof that there was no
scarcity, and that the farmers were but moderately
paid. It the market was interfered with tattler these
circumstances, a falling.oif in culture must be tiff
consequence.
NIK. WESTERN spoke to the same efieo, and con-
tended, that. the measure, if persisted in, was likely
to produce infinite mischief.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER disclaimed
the. idea of interfering unnecessarily with agricul-
ture. The only. question in his mind was, whether
the circumstances of the present time were such as
to justify or call for such interference as that now
proposed. He had not at any time given counte-
11.1nCe to the idea of the existence of a scarcity, But
from the deficiency of the last harvest in Scotian-de
and the failure of the crops of potatoes and oats in
Ireland, he held that we were in a state of Myer.
fed supply. In this state of imperfe6l supply, and
under the circumstances in which we stood with.
respect to other cahntries, he thought it right.to re-
tain and husband the supplies on hand till such
time as the ascertained produce of the present crop
should remove every apprehension of the 'tlattger
which he, thought-now to be guarded against. He
knew of eo instance in the distillation from corn
that had been stopped by proclamation. But if the
necessity should arise when Parliament was not sit-
ting, he should think the Government very suipable
if it did. not take that power upon itaelf. That was
a very different case, however, from that of et dan-
ger foreseen While- Parliament was sitting as likely
to arise when Parliament would not be 'tinting. Tee
apprehensions ofa scarcity were entertained by' many
persons of great authority trout ditiereutparti ut the
Country ; among. others, tin 1-.lonm-bele 1k ronet
Opposite Pie John Sinclair) had t.vinini_itiicated to
him an alarm with respect to Bcotiatid; amid another
Hon. Member,. now absent, the Mciiitxr tor Nur-
wich (Mr. Wtn, Smith), had spoke , with stioiler
appre elision with respect to. the county of •Nortolic:
lie was th,.:reture not a-little surpriskti 3111,
pursued by boils 'those Honourithle Geteleinee on

On Wednesday afternoon, about five o'clock as
One of the Portsthouth stages was on its way tp
town, the coachman turned a little out of the road,
near Claohatn, when the coach iMmediately upset.
The consequence was, that one male passenger on
.the outside was, kille'd on the spot, another was ip
dreadfully bruised that he is since dead, and a wo,
man bad her thigh broken, and was conveyed in a-
cariz to ,St. George's/Hospital, where she yesterday
underwent amputation. Not or.: of the passengers
escaped without being severely braised„ and the
Coachman had his leg broke.
Ciettostgß'S IraiwesT.—Yeaterday., at two o'clock,'
an InqUest was held before A. Q.a.t.z.' -Esq. Coroner
for Westminster, at the King's Head,* James-
street, Wustminster, on the body of
,Mary liargean,
who died In the WeStMinster Infirmary, on Frittiy -
'eVening last. It appeared from the'evidence that the
deceased had stabbed herself in die neck, on the pre,
ceding night, near Westminster Abbey.. On being
taken to the Infirmary, she recovered so far as to ,
state her name and pldce of abode, and that she in-
tlided the wound with a large,knife ; but said, she
did not know what had induced- her to do it. She
died in the evening, inconsequence, as is supposed,
-et' a gliseharge of blood- front the wound into the
trachea, which caused suGatioo. She way about
6 years of age, and-bad been the greater pert of,„
her life either a gpverness or lady's maid M
of distinction. She had between 4 and 6041. in the
3 per Cent. Consbis, but was continually tortnepied
with the fear of being reducedto poverty. yufdiat,
Inthuitil.
MELANttIOLY CATASTROpiIIt,-.--tMIT. Ford, wife
.to Ford,Esq. of the county of Down, Iteland,
and eldest daughter, to the late flight Hon. William
Broi,volow, went on Thursday se'nnight, in.appa,
really perfe4 health, to, *he font of Mrs.. .I.of ins
Tottenham, in Dublin ; while seated at the card
table,. she, found herself seized with sudden indispo,
sition, and being near her acCouchement of lier
tweotp.firtSt child, considerable alarm was excited,
and medical assistance was instantly called Mrs.
Tottenham offered every accommodation her home
afforded.; but Mrs. Ford, finding. herself. mach r—
cofered,
,yielded to the natural iinpuke ofTwisi.jng
ti be in her own !louse, op such an occasion, a:2
w43s conveyed into her coach, accompanied by her
sister, the Countess of Powerscourt, and her ,
Mr. Ford ; bet before they arrived ,at the housr,-t
vital, spark had e has left bine cle:dren9
The.Connti--,s of a;ruirrj , ant Vi4euuntess De.Ve,t;,
are sister,, tn the dc,