The Sun.
London, England, 1837-12-09 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS.—Doe. 8.
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Wool-

sack at Five o'Clock.
Lord DENNIAN presented a petition from Charles Pitt,
praying for the Abolition of Imprisonment for Debt.
The petition entered very fully into the subject, and ex-
pressed his opinion that an extension of the Lords' Act would be
beneficial. He prayed their Lordships to pass a temporary
Act, so that such persons as were now suffering imprisonment
might be enabled to enjoy their Christmas festivities.—
(Laughter.) He (Lord D.) was not aware that the House
would be disposed immediately to agree to the passing of such
an Act, or for such a reason. The Noble Lord desired to
take this opportunity of stating that if he had been aware
when he spoke the other evening that the Noble Duke oppo-
site was likely to have expressed so strong a doubt after he,
the Noble Lord, had left the House, he should have felt it to
have been his duty to have entered more fully into the subject

than he did.
RELIGIOUS INSTRUCTION IN SCOTLAND.
Lord ABERDEEN gave notice that the Second Repoft
of the Commissioners for Religious Instruction in Scotland
having been laid on the table, he should take an early op-
portunity, after the recess, of calling the attention of the Noble
Viscount opposite to that subject.
REDUCTION OF POSTAGE.
The Duke of RICHMOND presented a petition from the
bankers, merchants, and others of Brighton, praying their Lord-
ships to pass a law by which the postage on letters should be
reduced.
ABOLITION OF SLAVERY APPRENTICESHIP.
Lord GLENELG said that he had now to lay on the
table some of the Returns which had been moved for a few
nights ago by the Noble and Learned Lord on his right,
and which he moved might be printed.—(Hear, hear.) In
reference to others of those Returns, he wished to
inform his Noble and Learned Friend, particularly in refe-
rence to the Compensation Return, that they would occupy a
considerable time in preparation—that the office must add con-
siderably to the strength of their establishment to have those
Returns made out, and that even then those Returns could not
be made out before the recess.
Lord BROUGHAM could not but express his surprise at
hearing this statement. They had had a fortnight already,
and sow they wanted six or eight weeks more to make out the
Returns, in their nature extremely easy. In reference to one
of the Returns, there would be three columns required, in which
would have to be put the party's name, the date, and the amount
—that was all. So that, supposing in each page about 50
of those (and there were about 2,500 altogether) he could not
conceive how it could be said that such a Return should
take such a very long time to make out. He hoped the
Noble Lord would accelerate the Return as much as pos-
sible. He had himself shown alacrity, on his part,
and those persons who were employed in the office
surely ought not to be so far behind him. He hoped when
the matter was properly represented to the office, it would be
found that the thing would not take such a very great length
of time.
Lord GLENELG said he could only repeat the statements
he had already made on the authority of the Chairman of the
office, from whom he had received a letter, saying those Re-
turns could not be made out before the recess.
Lord BROUGHAM: observed that perhaps, if they knew
at the office that his Noble Friend had been so expeditious on
his own part, they might be induced to exert themselves and
not to appear to lag so far behind him. The Noble and
Learned Lord then presented petitions from persons attending
King's Bridge Church in the county of Devon ; the persons
attending the Baptist Chapel in the same place ; the Refuge
Chapel and the Independent Chapel, praying for the immediate
and total abolition of slavery, and slavery apprenticeships.
The Noble and Learned Lord was quite sure that at any rate
there could be no difficulty whatever in producing part of
the Returns.
Lord GLENELG would inquire.
Lord BROUGHAM—Oh, of course there could be no
difficulty in that. Ile had no doubt that when persons in a
department, or in an office, were asked if there was any diffi-
culty, and if any tirae would be required to make out
certain Returns, they would answer in the affirmative ;
but if they were told that the order was that they should
be immediately forthcoming, and that it was necessary they
should be produced without delay, then no great time would
elapse before they were in a tangible shape.
Lord G L E NEL G. —There was no question of that sort put.
Adjourned.

---------"w
•
He said that he found in
years, is now a proper subject for your inquiry ? The Pen-1 other arguments, which I will. not pay him the comPlime!it
sion List now includes a period of nearly seventy years. Du- !of calling the merest sophistries.
that Select Committee
ring that period of seventy years, there have been eleven i the Report of the Select Commiatteh
cc—ad—that the absolutely
Prime Ministers of this country immediately responsible for 1 which had Lord Althorn at it.
the granting of these pensions. The office of the Fir-n. Lord l contended for the right and equity of reassiisoinn
of the Treasury has been held since the date of the first pen. 1 Why, no doubt they did, of rev oing, pe
i aTe'r::gia' urt continue,
ene:
sion by the Duke of Grafton, Lord North, Lord Shelburne, 1 particular description ; but if this Reporis means anything, it
Mr. Pitt, Lord Sidmouth, Lord Grenville, Mr. Perceval, i means this, that with respect to
Lord Liverpool, Mr. Canning, Lord Goderich, and the Duke 1 accession of the late Kiae, in resiPeecuts:onfswohnige:imt
of Wellington. Of these eleven Prime Ministers, responsible 1 usage had been observed, those
Pensision but, said the Re-
for the Civil List, three only now survive—Lord Sidmouth, and ought to be precluded fromidetsd•
not;
apt
1 to the grant
the Earl of Ripon, and the Duke of Wellington. Lord Sid- port, these observations, however,
mouth's tenure of office expired in 1804, and thus in respect of future pensions.—(Cheersh.)
.granted revising
0f
thesea
c be Pe
etf
o' I:
rsnei ° atnnl gs
el
of any pensions granted by him thirty-three years have elapsed of the Chancellor of the Exc eqt r?
said, could it be believed
since the time. Ido ask again, with respect to pensiens genuousness of Lord Althorn, an .
rinciple, that pen-
But whattlu
relics was t ahatneop
granted by Ministers now no more, will you, who in 1830 that Lord Althorp intended to pr,cluthdee future inquiry into
refused to institute an inquiry as to the grounds upon pensions
, when
he
himself
established
-But I ask,P did Lord Althorp
which those pensions were granted—not with a view of sions ought to be inquired into?
Wh:it did that Report
saving the pensions, but with another view—of condemning fly
,from his Report ?—(Cine rsh.)
found existing, which
upon the in-
the grants, and censuring the Ministers—(Hver)—will say lt those pensions whit
.
yhe respected.
you take advantage of the lapse of seven years? Will sou had been made the subject ot .fearmeil errantsements and
take advantage of your own neglect, and proceed to the con- settlements of various kinds, shall sta-
demnation, not of the pensions, but of the memory of those what is the course now proposed ? ion propose
who are now no more, and that because they cannot now ac- blish new reeulations ; but have
e pensions should
_( Loud cheers.) But if those Ministers were alive I should be liable to revision You may exe.rcis
protest against the justice of trying the conduct of Ministers respect to future pensions; that is a distinet sull'ect ;
j contend that
of thirty years ago by tests called into operation by yourselves. Lord Althorp, I, as the author of this Report,
ensions pre-
-( Cheers.) But I should say that to lay down regulations there is a clear and valid distinction between ,
Pnoosteicetotoe the
in 1834 as regulations which ought to govern grants of pen- viously existing and granted under different d
which
sions granted under a different state of law, and under a dif- to the application of different principles; an
I pensionsioyou saaY
fcrent state of public feeling, pensions which were granted in can prospectively be subjected to what regu ao _ e
affected?
conformity with the views of public feeling and with public choose. But who arc the parties sought t. 1
.b.t.e: nrneaco''y of
principles with respect to these grants, would be manifest and They are persons for the most part advanced, 11
it
of these days,
flagrant injustice.—( Cheers.) You must consider the prin- them, having no cognizance of the procee.ongs
nce of their
ciples that prevailed at the time these pensions were granted, place the most perfect confidence in the continue j3tit
Althorn.
the views and intentions of the Legislature, and the construe- pensions in consequence of that Report of Lord
of that
Pc, andbustubsjaie Said
tion which public men at that time took of the rights of the they looked also at other indicatiens of the public men
r Le ti
Gleer e
Crown ; and submitting that these pensions were granted, time. T hey saw the Duke of Wellington and myysaend
not as rewards of public service, but from funds fairly appro- linm office on this very question of the Civil List,
Lord
priated, to be granted according to the discretionary favour Grey and Lord Althorp succeeding us ; they sawn _oeid
of the Crown, then I say, that nothing would be so mani- and Lord Althorp with every motive which public mneeectutuhe
featly unjust as in considering these pensions to use a dif- have, if they acted from ungenerous feelings, to 0
ferent standard, and to deprive the owners of their pensions, Pension List to inquiry. If ever there were men whojtOtOtikosea
which were granted under other and different circumstances. course directly opposite to their party interests it was
The Right Honourable Gentlemen the Chancellor of the men, Lord Grey and Lord Althorn. It must be re°_l;
Exchequer has referred to an opinion of Mr. Burke with lected that they turned out the Duke of Wellington fo:
respect to the principle on which these pensions were granted. Sir Robert Peel on this question ; that we were
Wsi_uieit
Mr. Burke was the author of the Civil List Act. The Right ceeded by a new Government, the Members of °in_
Hon. Gentleman considers Mr. Burke as some authority for hail never granted these pensions, who bad n.et in-
the course which he proposes to pursue. I think the Right terest in these pensions, but who had a directly opponsieer..nis..
Hon. Gentleman would not have quoted Mr. Burke if he could terest, if these men acted from grovelling feelings, i oleo-
have found another authority, as surely he would not have re- ing these pensions and putting discredit on their s_ "
ferred to the course pursued by Mr. Burke as an authority for sore. But what was the course which they took. 13Neot onlY
the course which the Right Hon. Gentleman now proposes to did they present the Report to which I have alluded,Tratt
pursue. I must first observe that the condition of the Pension Lord Althorp came down to Parliament and said :--
Wag
List in 1782, when Mr. Burke proposed his reform of the he knew those pensions were unpopular—he had abut that
Civil List, was totally different from the Pension List now. opinion against the prMciple of granting them ; -„ now
There was then a demand for the payment; of a large debt having been granted, justice required that they should now
on the Civil List, and there was a claim on the part of the be maintained, however averse he might be to the pri I,l;__
Crown upon Parliament to pay that debt. Parliament on which they were granted, or whatever interest th-! '-',,h'e
was then, of course, invested with authority in respect to vernment might have in putting an end to them. . ',..as
an inquiry into the Pension List, or anything else which Right Honourable Gentleman—l thank him for ite-ran,_io
might relate to such an extraordinary demand. There Is as asked some questions referring to the votes of the Ilonott.it°ll„
this peculiar circumstance at the time when Mr. Burke Member for Frome and the Honourable Member for t) '
brought forward his Act for the reform of the Civil List ; but ness. But I have a higher authority ; I can refer to one efitebiet
admitting even that the circumstances are the same, I say brightest pages in the lives of public men—the page when,
you cannot find in the recorded opinion -of Mr. Burke any- records the course Lord Althorp took with respect to p,..f
thing in justification of the course which the Right Hon. sions. I do not now mean to treat this question as onetn_u„
Gentleman, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, is now pur- policy ; of course on questions of policy public men
.halr
suing. I find that Mr. Burke said—" The King, Sir, has differ ; but I now propose to treat it is a question wheb.os
been, by the Constitution, appointed sole judge of the merit the revision of the Pension List was in conformity with s!ce.
for which a pension is ten. be given. We have a right, un- tice, and, therefore, with sound principles of sound poi,e,
doubtedly, to canvas this, as we have to canvas every act of lam not now referring to 1834, but to February, 1831,„_uns
Government. But there is a material difference between an fore any arrangement was made with respect to the r_"en,
office to be reformed and a pension taken away for demerit. sion list, when the question was as open as it would be. non,
In the former case no charge is implied against the holder, in if the circumstances of 1830 had 'never occurred, and b.,
the latter want of character is implied against the holder; in not placed the question in a different situation. when
__,,
the latter his character is altered, as well as his lawful emolu- 1830 a new settlement of the Civil List was found necessrto
ment affected. The former process is against the thing, the and Lord Althorp had the power of advising the Crown a.. to
second against the person. The pensioner certainly, if he the course which lie thought it fitting to take with respect.,, /
pleases, has a right to stand in his own defence, to plead his past pensions, what did he advise ? Lord Althorn saido
o_.
possession, and to bottom his title in the Competency of the admit the House has a legal right to take away all ths_ 5:
Crown to give him what he holds. Possessed, and on the pensions." I say so also. I say that we have possibyr:
defensive as he is, he will not be obliged to prove his ape- legal right to take away these pensions. But Lord Altlwihre
vial merit in order to justify the act of legal discre- went on to say, " These pensions certainly expired With
Tight
tion. The very act, be will contend, is a legal pre- demise of the Crown ; but through the House has a legs rir,.
sumption, and an implication of his merit. If this be so to discontinue them, I doubt whether the House has an eo
(from the natural force of all legal presumption) he would table right, for they have hitherto been always granted not
put us to the difficult proof that he has no merit at all. the supposition that when once obtained they were held, bat
But other questions would arise in the course of such an merely for the life of the Sovereign who granted thefts,
s.)
inquiry ; that is, questions of the merit, when weighed against also during the life of the party who held them."—(Cheebrich
the proportion of the reward ; then the difficulty will be much This was the language of Lord Althorp—language w .4.
greater. The difficulty will not, Sir, I am afraid, be much gave very great dissatisfaction to many of those whe
a't-joa
less if we pass to the person really guilty, in the question of an ported him. Lord Althorp was then placed in the situ, r,
unmerited pension—the Minister himself. I admit that when in which the Right Hon. Gentleman is now. He was III;
called to account for the execution of r. trust, he might fairly ful of being in a minority, or of having only a small rnaPrritbe
be obliged to prove the affirmative, and to state the merit for and Mr. Portman, then Member for Dorset, and one °'bacl,
which the pension is given ; though on the pensioner himself most respectable supporters which the Government then jams
such a process would be hard. If in this examination we pro- came down to the House of Commons, and, in addre"tord
reed methodically, and so as to avoid all suspicion of par- Lord Althorp as to the course he was about to pursni' by a
tiality and prejudice, we must take the pensions in order of him to beware, first, that be should not be overruled ~! ware
time, or merely alphabetically. The very first pension to which limited majority in the House of Commons, and to
ucwere
we come, in either of these ways, may appear the most grossly also that lie did not lose the confidence of those wh° uage
unmerited of any. But the Minister may very possibly show, the representatives of the people. This was the laei, On
that he knows nothing of the granting of this pension—that it addressed, but what was the reply of Lord Althorp? oil
was prior to his time—to his Administration—that the Minister the subject of the pensions, I beg to say a few words. ' a
who laid it on is dead ; and then we are thrown back upon the never conceive it is my duty as a Minister of this country,
asos
pensioner himself, and plunged into all our former difficulties. of the House, as a part of tire Legislature, to take ad
el
Abuses, and gross ones I doubt not, would appear, and to the tage of a technical point of law, in order to do what in ....o,
correction of which I would readily give my hand ; but when conscience I believe to be unjust. The '_pensions in quest too
I consider that pensions have not generally been affected by as I stated on Friday, were considered, and have always that
the revolutions of Ministry, as I know not where such in- considered, as granted for life. It is undoubtedly true.
sions
quirics would stop, and as an absence of merit is a negative by taking advantage of a technical point of law, those Peoere
and loose thing, one might be led to derange the order of might be made to expire on the demise of the Crown. et-
families, families, founded on the probable continuance of their kind would be a strict legal justification for making them EI9 tos
of income. I might hurt children ; I might injure creditors. pire ; but I put it to the House—l put it to the ceullt to
I really think it the more prudent conrse not to follow the whether it would be a worthy course for Governmen the
letter of the petitions. If we fix this mode of inquiry as a take advantage of such a circumstance, and whether
croft
basis, we shall, I fear, end as Parliament has often ended relief which would be thereby obtained could be put in-
basis,
under similar circumstances. There will be great delay, petition with the discredit of such a proceeding. rit the
much confusion, much inequality in our proceedings. But said this, I have only to add that I await the decision ° not
what presses me most of all is this, that though we should Committee and of the House with the deference and reLsribst
strike off all the unmerited pensions, while the power of the to which it is entitled, and that it is my most earnest wis",ieas
Crown remains unlimited, the very seine underserving per- I may be able to comply with any alterations or modifica`erfe
sins might afterwards return to the very same list ; or which may be suggested. At the same time I must obs de,
if they do not, other persons meriting as little as they that I can never consider myself as bound to submit to theoisef
do, might be put upon it to an undefinable amount. vision of any Committee or of the House itself, or of globe l
This, I think, is the pinch of the grievance. For these power whatever, if that decision should involve in it "o the
reasons, Sir, lam obliged to waive this mode'of proceed- deem to be an act of injustice." These pensioners. °OO,
ing as any part of my plan. In a plan of reformation it Civil List do not look to the terms of an Act of Parlla they
would be one of my maxims that, when I know of an csta- but they looked to the precise expressions of the Report' who
blishinent which may be subservient to useful purposes, and saw a great revolution in Government, and they saw thosfieved
which at the same time, from its discretionary nature, is succeeded declaring in their conscience that they
titioa-
liable to a very great perversion from those purposes, I that these pensioners were entitled in equity to the "nnould
would limit the quantity of power that might be so abused. ante of their pensions during their lives, and that they, this
Then, limiting the quantity of power that might be abused, stake their official existence on the maintenance oci that
Mr. Burke and the men of that day declared that the principle.—(Cheers.) The Right Hon. Gentleman said
latelf
Crown was entitled to grant pensions, not merely as the he had offered is the Select Committee which had beenr oeat
rewards of official services, but at the wish and favour of appointed upon the Civil List to give information with
esrrio
the Crown. If at any time with respect to the Pension List, to the pensions which had been granted since 18,34irt con'
or any other branch of the public revenue, there is a distinct doubt the pensions granted since 1834 were grantee ' Gees
allegation and prima facie proof of corruption or abuse, there fermity with the new rules. Now that the Right Hon°oo the
is no doubt that we are not prevented from inquiry into every tleman offered this information to the Select Committee owl
one of the names upon the Pension List—l say the whole of Civil List, and that it was refused, is a most extraerusr the
them, without exception. But there must be allegations of statement for a Minister to make. The propositionbu; ,be
corruption or abuse, otherwise the course would be perfectly Hon. Member for Southwark (Mr. Harvey) was !„a 1.4j0'
different from subjecting the whole of the Pension List to Civil List Committee should inquire into the Pens,'%ating
indiscriminate inquiry, not upon allegations of corruption or and to this the Right Honourable Gentleman objected, :aides
abuse, but for the purpose of fishing out whether there may that he would reserve this question for another C 0 bee, ot
not possibly be some existence of abuse. There are general and he thought that they ought not to refer the 5u,..1 vf°'
considerations which, at any period on the first accession of the pensions to the Civil List Committee, but ifsetueottee
the Sovereign, may be urged against the revisal or discon- ceedings were postponed there should be another u°ToquirY
tinuance of those pensions. One invariable usage has been appointed, and that he thought it better that the ' we.
adhered to. The pensions granted by one Sovereign, since into pensions should be reserved for that other Collribee'
the time of James 11., have been uniformly respected by his Yet, having held this language, the Right Honourahi°l Dist
successor.—( Hear, hear.) Parties have relied upon this uni. tleman says that he offered an, inquiry before the Cill ince
formity, and these pensions have been made the subject of Committee into the pensions which have been granted ./b bee
family settlements ; and, therefore, whatever regulations 1834. I was not present in the Committee, but if mittee
may be made for the future, you cannot disturb the are been, I should have refused to allow that select Csodllisvitbeie
rangements and settlements which have been made by to inquire into those pensions which had been grease jai tel
parties who hare made such settlements on the faith three years, in conformity with the resolutions v:brely. of
of a continued adherence to this rule. But if these consi- House had adopted. This is the case on which I c'oent t;
derations had force in 1820 or in 1830, I ask the atten- rely upon this, that, if it was not right in 1830 o",_B..coirrOl„
tion of the House to this consideration, namely, how far have an invariable preceding usage to institute this luctlhe pr'.o,
these grants derived an additional force from the course according to the doctrine of this Committee and . tlfer
pursued in 1831? Here is a point in which considerations of ciples of Lord Althorp, it was unjust so to inqustreoitoo
justice are involved ; and even if you differ from me as to con- whatever might be the question of policy, it pollci n! 5J
siderations of policy, I beg you to lend me your attentive con- just nor fair to institute that inquiry at present. et, affa!sr;
sideration while I attempt to show you that you are precluded assutne the chameleon hues of the vicissitudes of human FOl.l'lt
by considerations of justice from entertaining this inquiry with but justice cannot.—( Loud cheers.) That which.w;as JU'e,
avieVl to the discontinuance of any pensions. George IV. in 1830 may be impolitic in 1837, but that whicn„ cbt/Ogs
died in 1830 : it was necessary in the course of the autumn of in 1830 cannot be unjust now.—( Cheers.) We rt;, us il'bo
1830 for the Government of the day to propose a new arrange- in respect of policy, and the lapse of years may Pre may or
ment of the Civil List. They did propose it; and on their different position; but while I apprehend that o,.,eipleS,L ,
responsibility submitted it to the consideration of Parliament. a change in respect of policy, or constitutional pr!"inortarc_"ii:
A motion was made for referring the Civil List to a Select upon pensions, or with respect to privileges of the the essrna
Committee. The Government thought it their duty to resist or of the democracy, we are still unable to changeero 15,,,
that motion. The motion was, however, carried by a majority tial principles and character of justice.—( Loud
.11.,,..ai path ~
of 29; and in consequence of that majority the Members of if I heard that a political party—a powerful pehi,tilia,, bli.4,
time Government retired from office. A new Government was was making, not a new settlement of the Cly,u, beard tied
appointed on this very question of the consideration of the new settlement on an entirely new principle--ivit, lo succeed r'
Pension List, and, of course, every person was alive as to the the Ministers who retired from office, and theseh who
to do * cai-
course which the new Government would pursue. We went out them, had both recognised the strict legal rig t aiscic s
of office upon this question. We protested against the appoint- twin thing, but that they both said that it wtoacuelhduihnealuponstoeri
ment of the Select Committee, but a powerful party over_ table to a peat country to avail itself ofolt
.t
vrs legally
ol'iri
bore us, and were directed to make the arrangements of the law, and that it was not equitable, thou, 1 1 1 1, i q
Civil List. Lord Grey came into office as First Lord of the strictly justifiable, to inquire, I should sayehtelzttsbutte-tb;:tbloi;
Treasury, and Lord Althorp as Chancellor of the Exchequer. ought not to take place. But I
Lord Althorp moved for a Select Committee on the Civil plexion of the matter has not changed dovein 11883300 ,m111,Yb:.,:cooll
List, and that Select Committee made their Report upon the respect, that what was doubtful junstdic
this is materia! loisliv
subject of pensions. ,That very Committee was appointed by unquestionable right its 1837.
contineunotts*
Lord Althorp, as Chancellor of the Exchequer; was pre_ view of the case. The acts and pAroceneditnhges of the •ue.„, of
sided over by him as Chairman ; the Report was indited by ture have sanctioned a confiders is, ,
Lord Althorp, and was assented to by the Committee. In- these pensions; the Go
d the principles
tber.
the Report of the Committee, so appointed by the Govern- of Commons, all adopte
listen to any 0 d these
ment which succeeded us, it is stated distinctly, " that, ad- Lord Althorp, and refused to
who
have col-dhow
*rot/.
yerting to all the circumstances of the case, considering that are yourselves the parties
of these_.:booriti
no material relief to the finances of the country would be de- pensioners' assurance in the continuance
himself an 41.,!•03 fOr
entleman is ote el bat
rived, from such measures of retrenchment, and also consi- The Right Honourable
that I do not qu
s_
ev, t
dering that an invariable usage had prevailed, and had been on this point • and I beg toh saye,
vernrnen ,ct.ehe Committee, to.
_. by
invariably observed, of continuing these pensions on the ac- the purpose of proving a c hetg
ght to expect that,nr_ coots
cession of the Sovereign, the Committee were of opinion those parties had, at least,tobser-e
the man to move lust is ~
of op.ini.on',gbulatidto
thed:w:i4::
that it was not adviseable that any inquiry should be insti- Hon. Gentleman would nhoese
pensions. But I nit_., no saeati!
tuted into these pensions with a view of their discontinuance." ' mittee to inquire intoe
How could the Right Hon. Gentleman refer to this Re- that the position of the
in It was °Penr 1834, an 3ht
laced now.
port, and say that it was an authority for the course he was the same that it is p
because, in the yea.
i A the fli
to vs,n- eartmes•
now pursuing?—(Loud cheers.) I may now proceed, hay- 1830, but it is not odeowwth the Crown, were rd ja
ing adverted to these general considerations, to address my- rangcment
acted
Gentleman would have
has ti .1
cg:;) that
self to the arguments which have been brought forward by Hon. Gentlwemasanmhimself and Lord Althor_P es- fist& the
the Right Hon. Gentleman, and I shall be disappointed, Time Right Hon..
uiry; but the Crown
...ensions; sin Bay'
indeed, if I do not convince the House that whatever the / 1830 in making
tPension List in 1830
late King',, You
during the life efr,t tieivaa said,
fested a degree of intrepidity which is enough to alarm a it was impossible,
The Right Ho. 'ell
Right Hon. Gentleman has shown, he has at least mani- faith of Parliaa tilnt,cland has continued thesehe 1-'
reasonable man. The Right Hon. Gentleman has use way to alter them. IstYrevision iri