The Sun.
London, England, 1863-07-15 00:00:00

WALES,

Lord CHELMSFORD called the attention of the house
to the " Memorandum regarding assessment of compensa-
tion in the case of the Prince of Wales," which bad been
blia upon cue mule , ee.e. et►e secretary of State for
Foreign Affairs to inform the house upon what grounds the
Qaeen's Advocate founded his estimate of the sum of £2,360
as the amount of compensation which ought to be paid for
the cargo, after making allowance for probable and neces-
sary damage; what was the nature and description of the
cargo and its invoiced value, and if the owner had received
anything from the underwriters in respect of its loss ; also,
in what manner the Queen's Advocate had ascertained that
the loss of wages and effects ought to be estimated at £290
and the compensation for " possible murders" at £B4O ?
His lordship contended that the arbitration of the King of
the Belgians having resulted in a decision against the
charges made on behalf of the officers of the Forte, the right
to make reprisals was completely disposed of, as these re-
prisals had been made partly to obtain reparation for the
alleged insult which had been offered to the British navy in
the persons of the officers of the Forte. He hoped therefore
to hear from the noble earl that he had offered some expres-
sion of regret, or made some amends, to the Brazilian Go-
vernment for the course which he and Mr. Christie had pur-
sued. When the Brazilian Governmentresisted the demands
which the noble earl had made through Mr. Christie, and
when they refused to make any compromise, but simply
surrendered at discretion to superior force, they placed
this country in the very delicate position of being judges in
our own cause. It was our duty, under such circumstances,
to behave with great caution and forbearance ; but he
thought that the very contrary spirit had been shown. The
case was referred to the Queen's Advocate, and he had
made the award upon some appraisement which he (Lord
Chelmsford) would be glad to see explained. surely a ship-
broker or an insurance underwriter would be better autho•
rities as to the nrobable value of a ship's cargo and sailors'
kits than the Queen's Advocate. The noble lord went over
the whole case of the loss of the Prince of Wales, and cen-
sured the demand made for freight upon the Brazilian Go-
vernment as an utterly unjustifiable demand, freight not
being earned until the goods are delivered He condemned
the charge for seamen's wages allowed by the Queen's Ad-
vocate, and as to the assessment of £BlO for " possible
murders," the Brazilian Government denied the charge of
murder, and he was at a loss t 6 understand how the curious
sum was arrived at. (Laughter.) The very term used was
a strange one. All could understand what " probable mur-
ders" meant, but anything so vague as " possible murders"
he had never heard of before. In conclusion, he asked
Earl Russell whether he had made any amends to the Bra-
zilian Government for the forcible seizure of their ships,
and the enforcement of demands which were awarded to be
groundless; what was the nature and description of the
cargo which the Queen's Advocate had valued at two-thirds
of the invoice value ; whether Mr. Stephens had received
anything from the underwriters on account of insur-
ance ; how the seamen's wages came to be assessed at £200;
and how the calculations had keen made which settled the
compensation for possible murders at an ?
Earl RUSSELL said that the noble lord had made many
statements very favourable to the Brazilian Government,
but what her Majesty's Government knew was, that when
a British vessel was wrecked on the Brazilian coast the au-
thorities refused to produce the bodies or to hold an in-
quest. It was easy for the noble lord to make statements
favourable to the Brazilian Government, which had taken
good care that there should be no proofs forthcoming. It
was not because the award of the King of Belgians was in
favour of the Brazilian Government in the matter of the
officers of the Forte that therefore her Majesty's Govern-
ment was wreng in compelling the submission of the ques-
tion to arbitration. If the Brazilian Government had agreed
to leave the matter to arbitration in the first instance, no
reprisals would have been made. Mr. Christie pressed upon
them the offer of arbitration, and they would not accept it.
Until the reprisals were made nothing could be done. In
fact, the Brazilian Government had for some time treated
her Majesty's Government with a degree of contempt which
was very unusual between friendly Powers. As to the
noble lord's suggestion about a shipbroker, the Government
were not in the habit of going to shipbrokers or insurance
agents for advice. They usually applied to the law advisers
of the Crown, and the Queen's Advocate was the proper
officer to whom they had referred. The noble lord, as the
advocate of the Brazilian Government, alleged that the
cargo had gene to the bottom—but the evidence of Mr.
Consul Vinkes showed that the vessel was afloat and at
anchor when he saw her, several days after the wreck. Ifer
boats were drying on shore; they were unbroken, and the
oars were in them. Several packing cases were open on the
shore empty—and the paper which lined them was dry, and
bore no appearanc3 of having been wetted. It was true that
Mr. Christie had made no demand for compensation for the
murders—but the Queen's Advocate thought that the
charge was fair and just. He (Earl Russell) had no doubt
whatever that the people sere murdered. Mr. Stephens,
the owner of the ship, had received nothing on account of
insurance from the underwriters—and he (Earl Russell)
considered the charge as assessed was very moderate. As to
our relations with Brazil, he thought they would be very
much improved by the Brazilians finding that British sea-
men could net be murdered or British vessels plundered
with impunity.
The Earl of MALMESBURY said that the papers
showed that the Brazilian Government had produced four
bodies, and that they were proved not to have been mur-
dered.

Earl RUSSEL—There were ten bodies seen, and only
four were produced.
The Earl of MALMESBURY said that the other six

were buried in the sand, and could not be found. (Earl
Russell made a gesture of dissent.) The affair was a dis-
grace to this country, and he regretted that the oble earl
had not given any reply to his noble friend, or my assur-
ance that he would make amends to the Brazilian Govern-
ment, and say that he regretted the reprisals were made.
He hoped that no false pride would prevent the noble earl
from seeking a reconciliation with Brazil. Our feelings on
the unfortunate slave trade had led us to do many things
wh'ch. disturbed our relations with other countries ; and the
Aberdeen Act, by which British cruisers were empowered
to board, search, and seize Brazilian vessels suspected of
being slavers in Brazilian waters, was calculated to prevent
a good understanding from being established between the
two countries. It was mere legalised piracy in search of
piracy, and Lord Aberdeen often expressed his regret for
for having passed that Act.
Earl RUSSELL said he had been informed by the Por-
tuguese Minister in London that he was instructed to use
his good offices in bringing about an amicable understand-
ing been this country and Brazil. Ho (Earl Russell)
thought it best to wait until that proposition became before
her Majesty's Government.
Earl FORTESCUE warmly defended the character of
his friend Mr. Christie.
After a few words from Lord MALMESBURY, the
subject dropped.
GALWAY AND NEW YORK MAIL PACKETS.
The Earl of HARD WICKE asked the Postmaster-
General : —lst. Whether the contract for the conveyance
of mails between Galway and America has yet been con-
cluded. 2d. Its terms ; and whether any and what modi-
fications, more especially as regards the landing of mails or
telegrams at St. John's,. Newfoundland. 3d. When the
tchoomAmdemnciera.
Ity4tsbu.rlvVehyeotrhsears,
pnotwithstanding
t htehservicee reports
is
ot
fo
to the unfitness of the vessels, the Government are prepared
to incur the risk of another failure in this service. sth.
Whether any steps have been taken by the Government
authorities to insure the public against the consequences of
those deficiencies in the vessels of the Galway Company
pointed out by the Admiralty surveyors.
Lord STANLEY of ALDERLEY replied that the pro-
posal of contract had been accepted. 2. That the terms
were precisely the same as in the previous contract, except
that no member of either House of Parliament should be a
contractor, and the mails should be landed at St. John's,
Newfoundland. 3. The service would commence when the
company declared themselves ready. 4 and 5, his lordship
said, he would answer together. The terms of the contract
should be observed, and time should be kept.
Their lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS---Last Evening.

The SPEAKER took the chair at a quarter after 12 o'clock.

PRIVATE BUSINESS.
The Edinburgh Water Bill was read a third time.
FORTIFICATIONS (PROVISIONS FOR
EXPE N SES).

Mr. MASSEY brought up the report of the resolutions,
making provision for the expenses and payments to the
Bank of England, already agreed to.
The house then went into committee, and a clause to this
effect was embodied in the bill.
The house resumed.
UNION RELIEF AID ACTS CONTINUANCE

BILL.

On tho motion for going into committee,

Mr. CHILDERS rose to move, "That, in the opinion of
this house, it is desirable that any monies raised under this
bill, by way of loan on the security of the rates in the dis-
tressed manufacturing districts, should be applicable to
assist emigration to such colonies as may be will-
ing to co-operate in carrying it out." He, for one,
had not much faith in the employment of the
distressed artisans on public works, believing that the
greater proportion of the money would go into the pockets
of the contractors and in the purchase of materials; but as
the general opinion of Lancashire was in favour of the plan,
he had felt it his duty to give it his support. Supposing
the war in America to shortly cease, it would take at least
four or five years before the cotton trade of Lancashire
could be restored to its former condition. For many years the
influx of people into the cotton districts had been at thereto
of 35,000 a year, and he attributed the great increase of
crime last year to the inability of these people to obtain a
living, and thus they became a component part of the
dangerous classes. The emigration from this country and
Ireland from 1852 to 1858 was far larger than in the four
or five preceding years. In the years 1860-1-2 there
had been a great falling off, so that in prosperous years
'the emigration had been much greater than in those of an
opposite character. In the present year, however, there
had been a great augmentation of emigration. Acts of Par-
liament were in existence to enable parishes to assist the
irremovable poor and orphan children to emigrate by a
charge on the rates not to exceed one-half of the average
rates of the three previous years ; but the adoption of such
a plan in order to relieve the distress in the cot-
ton districts would be but as a drop in the bucket.
By the adoption of his motion, as an addition to the
bill, parishes would be materially aided in promoting emi-
gration, and they would find that the colonies would readily
co-operate in so good a work. Many of their southern
colonies had ceased to a great extent to be pastoral, and now
presented a multitude of these mining and manus.cauring
occupations which went so far to make up the wealth of
nations. Hence there was an ample field in our colonies
for the profitable employment of the distressed artisans in
the cotton districts. It was absurd to say that the English
mill hands could not stand the climates of our colonies in
the southern hemisphere, because they were particularly
adapted, on account of the genial warmth that prevailed,
the absence of snow, east winds, and fogs, to renovate the
impaired health of these artisans. Though numbers of emi-
grants had gone during the last year or two to Australia
the labour market had not been disturbed nor wages re-
duced. He contended that the " assisted" emigration he
proposed would be a great boon to the distressed cotton
hands, who, he was satisfied, were most desirous of emi-
grating, In the course of a year or two a sum of from
£200,000 to £300,000 would be available, out of colonial
funds, for the promotion of emigration, provided the emi-
grants themselves contributed a little sum. He appealed to
the house to accede to his motion, and thus mitigate the
prevalent distress.
Mr, MARSH seconded the motion. He spoke from
great experience when he said that our colonies would be
glad to receive a great accession of emigrants. The colo-
nies did not want particular specialties in emigrants. If
they had good common sense and were willing to
work they would be sure to succeed. For
instance, in the old days of transportation,
it was found that London pick-pockets made the best shep-
herds. (Laughter.) He quoted statistics to show that
wages in Queensland were high, and food exceedingly
cheap. It was, too, a capital place for women, because there
were no shops (Laughter.)
Mr. NEWDEGATE supported 'the bill, because an ex-
ceptional resource was needed in the present extremity, and
ha was satisfied that this was the best one that could at the
present juncture be devised for the relief of the distressed
cotton-workers, The emigration, under proper guidance
and protection, of women was exceedingly desirable, in
order to correct the present glaring disproportion of the
sexes in this country,
Colonel W. PATTEN denied that the Lancashire com-
mittee were hostile to the emigration of the distressed cot-
ton hands. They had no right to expend money placed in
their hands for the relief of distress to a foreign object not
indicated by the donors. (Hear, hear.) The committee
were taking e distressthat might
be to guard against th • ht
be apprehended in the winter, and he hoped the house
would believe that the committee would do their best to
meet all the rational requirements of the distressed opera-
tives. (Hear, hear.)

Mr. FE RRAND considered that the hon. member (Mr.
Childers) would not succeed in carrying his motion, because
the manufacturers had leagued themselves with the Go-
vernment to keep them in the vicinity of the mills, in case
their services should be required. It appeared that £460,000
out of the £1,000,000 subscribed had alone been devoted to
the operatives, making, with the £200,000 lately raised
under this bill, only 30s. per head on the 400,000 to 500,000
needing aid. There were actually 30,000 able-bodied men
out of employment in Lancashire, and he advised the local
committee to direct their attention to eturying them into
the districts where he knew for a fact there was at that mo-
ment a paucity of haymakers.
Mr. BAGWELL adverted to the lamentable distress
among agriculturists in various parts of Ireland, especially
in the west, and said the way the two classes of her Ma-
jesty's subjects—those in Ireland and in Lancashire—were
treated presented a remarkable crintrast. Nothing was done
for the former, but if the Government did not afford these
poor people succour, he warned them that the people would
fail in their loyalty. . . _

Mr. HIBBERT contended that the present state of the
law afforded every facility to parishes to aid in the emigra-
tion of distressed inhabitants willing to leave their native
land.

After a few words from Mr. ADDEELEv,
Mr. VILLIERS advised the hen, member (Mr. Childers)
to withdraw his motion. He proposed that there should be no
compulsory emigration, but that it should be quite optional.
He had not, however, proved that either the operatives
or the parishes supported his motion. Then he clearly de-
monstrated by figures that the emigration during the pre-
sent year had. greatly increased, If so, why interfere with
what was going on? The hon, gentleman had stated pub-
licly that the colonies had a quarter of a million of money
ready for the promotion of emigration; but ho had not
shown that such really was the case, though the hon. mem-
ber had stated that he expected to be made the holder of
this large sum. The mass of emigrants did not care to go
to Australia, but to America, and the right hon. gentleman
quoted statistics in support of his statement. He feared
the hon. gentleman had unfortunately mixed
up his
humanity with his interest in Australia; in fact, accord.
ing to him, England's misery was Melbourne's oppart,ity.
His opinion was that if employment could be found hero for
the distressed operatives in this country it would be impro-
per to encourage emigration. Cotton operatives were not
required in Victoria, and, indeed, several of the colonies
had no need of such hands. It was the duty of Govern..
ment to see that men were not encouraged to leave their
native land unless they were well satisfied that they stood
a good chance of doing well in the future. It was useless
sending the operatives to Queensland or any other place
where there was not sufficient capital or channels of em-