The Sun.
London, England, 1837-03-11 00:00:00

PRIVATE BILLS.

Mr. C. BRUCE presented a petition from Forres, in Scot-
land, against the present system of carrying on Private Bills in
the House. They complained of the expence and inconvenience
of the system, that the number of Members was too large,
so that it was impracticable for all the Members to attend, and
that many Members decided on the Bill without hearing the
evidence. He further complained that this gave rise to a
system of canvassing.
MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS (IRELAND).
Mr. PO‘VER presented petitions from Ireland, praying
for Municipal Corporations and the extinction of Tithes.
Sir R. NAGLE presented petitions to the same effect
from parishes in the counties of Meath and Westmeath.

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY, MARCIi 11, 1837.

Hon. Gentleman of the conduct of the Marine Corps in all
parts of the world.—( Hear, hear.) All that had been said
did not at all exceed their merits—by land and by sea
they had proved themselves worthy of all that could be said of
them. Admitting, the statements of the Hon. Gent. with respect
to the extreme age of the officers, and the slowness of promotion
in that corps, yet it was to be remembered that the promotion
there was carried on entirely by seniority, which was a plan that
had been often urged upon the Ministry in that House. It
was not true that the Admiralty had done nothing on
the subject ; it had engaged much of their attention,
and alterations had been made by them. The Noble
Lord (Lord George Lennox) had asked for a Committee,
which he (Mr. Wood) was obliged to refuse. Ile could see
no good from, it, because the facts were admitted on all
sides. —( Cries of " Hear, hear.") The Noble Lord said,
" Give me a Committee," but he (Mr. Wood) said,
" Give me money."—(liar, and laughter.) Money was all
that was wanted in order to allow the aged officers to
retire. The Order in Council of 1824 was still in force,
Ind unless it were chaier"ed, the retirement of the pre-
sent aged officers would increase, by retiring allowances,
by a quarter of a million. The Gallant Captain (Boldero)
had deprecated any comparison between the Marines and any
other corps. He mentioned it not for the purpose of di-
minishing the respect for the Marines; but the fact was,
the retirement of invalid officers from the Marines was
as one in three, while those from the Artillery was as
one in four (we believe.)—( Hear, hear.) The question
had occupied as much of the attention of the present Board of
Admiralty as of any former one. The subject was now under
the consideration of the Board, who were attempting to
find out some plan of allowing them to retire without
increasing the public burdens, and in his opinion the whole
subject might be safely left to the Board of Admiralty, who
had great anxiety to afford relief, if possible.—( Hear, hear.)
With respect to Major Owen lie could only state that he be-
lieved it was the intention to include his name in the late
Brevet, but through some informality it was omitted. He
thought a Committee could not elicit more than the country
was already in possession of.
Lord HOT HAM thought no corps in his Majesty's service
was more entitled to consideration than the Marines. He was
greatly gratified at the statement of the lion. Gentleman, the
Secretary for the Admiralty, and should be content, at pre-
sent, to depend upon the assurance of the Government, reserv-
ing to himself, hereafter, the right of bringing the subject
under discussion, if the Admiralty were neglectful of the in-
terests of the Marines, or if the House were unwilling to grant
the supplies necessary for rewarding them.
An Hoist. MEMBER, whose name we could not learn, wished
to know from the Gallant Gentleman the Member for Chip-
penham what he meant by stating that the reports of the
Navy Officers were not in general favourable to the Marines?
He was sure there was not a blue jacket who did not always
feel a most friendly disposition towards those who served in
the naval forces of his Majesty.
Captain BOLDER() said the stronger the reports of the
Navy Officers were in favour of the Marines the stronger was
the necessity for promoting them.
Captain BA RCLA Y hoped the matter would be left in the
hands of the Board of Admiralty, who he was sure would do
justice to the corps ; especially us before he left the Admi-
ralty he had received a request from the Noble Lord at its
head to take the case of the Marines into consideration.
He hoped the Noble Lord would press his motion to a divi-
sion.

Sir HENRY HA R DING E said that the answer which
the Ilenonourable Gentleman the Secretary of the
Board of Admiralty had given was satisfactory.
The Honourable Gentleman had very properly requested
the Noble Lord and his Gallant Friend behind him to
rest on the assurance which he gave, that the Admiralty
would perform every thing that was necessary in this
business.—( Hear.) But the Honourable Gentleman had
not concluded with what he (Sir Henry) considered an es-
sential point in this discussion—namely, that he did not press
the granting of a Committee for this purpose, to take
into consideration promotion in the Army. He thought that an
essential principle, and he hoped they would never see the
day when the officers of the Army, Navy, Artillery, or
Marines would have to look up for promotion to the House of
Commons.—( Loud cheers.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought
the introduction of the present question was beyond the legi-
timate duties of the House of Commons, and that the matter
should be left altogether to the discretion of the Crown.
• Mr. HUME thought it was the duty of the House of Com-
mons, when injustice had been done to any branch of the ser-
vice, to interfere. If the prerogative of the Crown were im-
properly exercised, it was the duty of that House to take up
the question. He cordially supported the motion of the
Noble Lord, and if he went out alone he (Mr. Hume) would
accompany him.—(Hear.) Were promotion to take place '
with great rapidityin other corps because they were officered by
branches of the aristocracy while the Marines were passed by ?
Was it to he supposed that human nature could bear that ? In
1827 he brought the case of the Marines before the House,
and showed the injustice that had been practised to-
wards them, but without the least effect, for nothing
had been done. If the House of Commons allowed this to go
on, they were depriving themselves of the controlling power
which they possessed.--( Cheers.) In his opinion a Com-
mittee ought to be appointed to enquire into the subject.
No service deserved better or was less rewarded, and the
course pursued towards them was the height of injustice.—
( Cheers.) It had been said by the Secretary of State that the
money was wanting ; he would venture to say, if a proper
case was made out, no sum of money would be refused by the
House to do justice-4 Cheers. )
After a few words from Admiral Adam, Col. Thompson,
Mr. G. F. Young, Captain Gordon, and Sir C. B. Vere,
Lord G. LENNOX said he was gratified that such ample
testimony was borne from all sides of the House to the services
_ _

of the Marines. It was his intention to press the question to
a division.

Captain BOLDERO, as the seconder of the motion, was
averse to a division, and thought, after what had takemplace,
it would be better to leave the subject in the hands of the
Secretary of the Admiralty.
Mr. C. WOOD certainly thought that the Board would
have no hesitation to apply to his Majesty for an Order in
Council to carry into efFect some satisfactory arrangement
with respect to this subject.
The gallery was then cleared for a division, but, on our
return we found that no division had taken place, and it was
understood that, in the terms stated, the motion was withdrawn.
AFFAIRS OF SPAIN.
Lord MAIION said that the motion which he had to sub-
mit was closely connected with the voting of the estimates that
would be brought forward in the Committee of Supply, inas-
much as it partly related to the employment in a foreign ser-
vice of a portion of our marine force. The course which he
meant to take was this: to move that the House should go
into Committee, and take the discussion upon his motion upon
the first vote in Committee of Supply. The Hon. Member
f'or Middlesex had a motion on the list, and he wished to know
whether he would acquiesce in this arrangement, as otherwise
he (Lord Mahon) would stand upon his right, and bring for-
ward his motion before the Speaker left the chair ?
Mr. HUME was anxious to bring forward his motion before
the House, but if the Noble Lord was determined to stand on
his right of precedence he would not place any obstacle in the
way of the arrangement proposed.
Colonel THOMPSON also had a motion on the list which
he was anxious to bring forward in the regular way.
The SPEAKER, as he understood that the motion of the
Hon.'and Gallant Member was connected with the Armv Esti-
mates, did not thick it was his intention to bring it forward
until the House were about to go into Committee on those
Estimates.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought it
would best suit the public convenience and satisfy the anxiety
of the Noble Lord to bring his motion before the House, if the
Speaker should leave the chair and the House resolve itself
into a Committee of Supply.
The Speaker then left the chair and the House went into
Committee.

NAVY ESTIMATES.
Mr. C. WOOD rose to make his statement to the Hluse,
but was very imperfectly heard in the gallery. He said that,
having given general satisfaction in the course he had pursued
when he had the honour of moving the Navy Estimates last
year, he proposed adopting the same plan at present. The
first head which he had to mention was seamen's wages. In
this item a difference would be found of ab'iut 12,0001.,
arising from the necessity of keeping a greater number of men
afloat.

Mr. HUME—I cannot hear one single word which is ut-
tered. The Hon, Gentleman ought to speak up.
Mie C. WOOD here turned round to the Hon. Member for
Middlesex, and directed his attention to him during the rest of
his speech. In doing so he necessarily turned his back to the
reporters' gallery, which caused him to be at, times imperfectly
heard. He then continued. He thought in making his
statement it would be more convenient to use the designation
of the several items to which Hon. Members were accus-
tomed. Some changes had taken place since last year, and
the House would more readily know what was meant by hear-
ing it called No. 9 or No. 10 than by his informing them that
one item had been incorporated with another. The next sub-
ject was No. 4, which referred to the registration of merchant
seamen. This had before taken place at the Navy Pay Office ;
but at present an office had been set apart for the express pur-
pose. The vote of last year amounted to 1,5001. , but it would,
he believed, be found inadequate for the purpose. This regis-
tration was attended with great labour, and it was found neces-
sary, since last year, to increase the number of clerks con-
siderably. Even with this addition, he was sorry to say the
labours of the office were much in arrear ; and some months
he feared must elapse before the number of merchant seamen
who were registered could be accurately known. The House
would, however, be glad to hear that, in consequence of the
strict observance of the registration, it was ascertained that at
least fifteen thousand men must be on the books at present—
( Hear, hear, hear)—and 12,124 apprentices to the merchant
service had been regularly enrolled, about to become here-
after a prolific source of able-bodied seamen for the King's
service.—( Hear, hear.) The next it em, No. 5, was the
scientific branch. On this head a considerable increase of ex-
penditure had taken place. The expense of observatories,
particularly at Greenwich, was necessarily great, and it was es-
sential that attention should be paid to astronomicel observa-
tions, which were so intimately connected with nautical affairs.
But a still greater source of expense was found in the publi-
cation of the " Nautical Almanac." This work was not only
of importance to persons- engaged in maritime affairs, but Co
the community at large. It was of general utility. The sum
of 13,000/. had been given for carrying on the work, and it
was hoped that the sale would in time meet the expenditure.
It was not sufficient that the calcuLtions should be made for a
single year in advance. To render the work really service-
able it was necessary to calculate three or four years at least
in advance, so that. vessels going on long voyages might refer
to it up to the time of their return home. Thus a vessel going

out in this year- ought to carry with it a nautical almanack
calculated up to 1841. An accession to last year's grant would
be required of 2or 3,0001. When the navy estimates had
been voted last year it was not known that a necessity would
have arisen for this increase. The additional expences had
been paid by the Admiralty, and he thought it better to state
thus to the House at once that the additional sum was re-
quired for the printing and paper of the work. The next
item, No. 6, referred to the salaries of artificers in our esta-
blishments at home. On it he had nothing to remark as the
amount was nearly the same as for the past year.
Mr. H UME really thought the Hon. Gentleman would act
more fairly by merely stating the different items at present,
and leaving all explanatory matter to the next time the subject
was before the House.
Mr. C. WOOD said that the course which he was then
pursuing had been universally adopted ever since he had held
a seat in the House. As the House seemed to sanction it he
would proceed. No. 7 related to his Majesty's establishments
abroad. They required considerable sums for their mainte-
nance, but the expense this year would be about 2,0001. less
than the preceding one, chiefly owing to the breaking up of
the establishment at Sierra Leone. The next item, Nos. 8
and 9, referred to wages to artificers in the dockyards. A
considerable increase had taken place in the number of hands
employed in the present year, amounting to between 4,000
and 5,000. This was occasioned by the necessity which arose
for a great manufacture of ropes and other objects of nautical
use. The articles in storo last year had been made of mate-
rials which, on examination, were found literally rotting away.
It was to procure a supply in their place that the number of
men had been increased. Last year machinery had been erected
to some extent at Chatham for carrying on the manufacture of
naval stores. A strike of the workmen since June last had de-
layed the works, and rendered it impossible to estimate the ex-
pense at present. In four or five months he expected to have the
works completed. The House would perhaps expect, as he
was on this part of the subject, that he should allude to the
contracts made for timber, which generally caused a great quan-
tity to lie on hand. This year, however, the quantity was but
small, and it was intended in future to keep such a stock as
would enable them to go to market on favourable terms. The
contracts now in existence would cease in autumn, and then
any person could apply, as the contract was one of open compe-
tition. The last cause of expense in this item was for ship_
wrights, as those before engaged in the dockyards were not
found to be sufficient. Many objections had been made by
Hon. Gentlemen opposite on the number of ships which were
built, though in their opinion not wanted. He could now gra-
tify those Gentlemen by informing them that for two years
none were required. In addition to the usual business of the,
dockyards the Post-office packets were now placed under the
same jurisdiction. No estimate had been made for these vessels
since they had been transferred. An intelligent officer was
now employed in obtaining information respecting them by vi-
siting the different stations where they had been before placed.
When this Gentleman returned and gave iii his report a sup-
plemental estimate would be submitted to the House. He
thought it not improper to state that he disapproved of the
custom of employing-the men in the dockyard?, for only five
days in the week. There was th:s disadvantage attached
to it, that the superintendents were kept up the whole year
round, though the duty was for only the five days in each
week.—( Hear, hear.) In addition to these matters, which
had led to the increase of the head of " artificers' wages,"
sum of 2,0001. was to be put down for damage occasioned by
the late storm. In No. 11 there was a heavy item for erect-
, ing buildings in the:r own yards for the m.treifeeture of steam-
boat boilers and machinery. Upwards of thirty vessels were
attached to the Post-office Department, and it was deemed
necessary to have these under the dockyard jurisdiction. The
Committee would see the proprity of not running any risk of
suspending the communication between this country and Ire-
land, even for a single hour. In No. 13, the item of miscel-
laneous expenses, a considerable reduction would be found to
have taken place. In No. 14, which referred to the half-pay
to officers of the Navy and Royal Marines, he had only to re-
mark, that he fully agreed with those Hon. Gentlemen who
had given their mood of praise to the Marine officers of his Ma-
jesty's service. The reduction on the item to which he had last
referred, would be found to be more than 3,0001. On Nos. 15
and 16, relating to military and civil pensions, the reduction
would amount to about 6,0001. He did not think lie had any
further statement to make. He would just turn back to make
a remark or two on the first item; it, as the House might bear
in mind, related to wages for seamen and marines. It might
be remembered that last year an increase of men had been de-
manded. The state of Europe required that an increase should be
made. It had been thought advisable also to send out an ex-
perimental squadron to keep up the knowledge of the seamen,
which they were likely in a measure to have impaired during
their duty on scattered services in various parts of the world."
A squadron of 18 ships had been sent to the Baltic. and the
House would, he imagined, not deem that the number of men
granted, amounting to 11,000, was too great. He felt much
satisfaction in being able to prove to the Committee that the
grant of last year had not been abused. In the summer
months a greater force had been kept on foot than was neces-
sary afterwards. A portion of this force bad been put down,
as the state of the service allowed it; so that on the Ist of Ja-
nuary of the present year there were 2,000 men on service less
than the vote of last year allowed. At present the reduction
was as low as 4,000 men. Seeing then that the same cause
existed for keeping up an additional naval force in the coun-
try, and that the vote of last year had not been abused, he
trusted that no objection would be made to the number of Ma-
rines demanded.
Mr. BERNAL then put from the Chair the question,-...
" That 9,000 Royal Marines should be granted during the
ensuing year for the service of his Majesty."
SPANISH AFFAIRS.
Lord MAHON then proceeded to call the attention of the
House to the present state of Spain. In all the discussions
which had taken place on the subject of Spain he (Lord
Mahon) had always admitted that the Quadruple Treaty,
having been once ratified, ought under no pretence to be
broken through. But he must say that succeeding events had
clearly shown the impolicy of the additional articles which had
been appended to the original treaty. The principle on which
they were founded was very different from that on which the
Quadruple Treaty had been made. On the 18th of August,
1834, the additional article was signed, sanctioning our inter-
ference in the internal affairs of Spain. Now he ( Lord
Mahon) perfectly admitted the obligation of this additional
article of the treaty ; but he at the same time must condemn
the policy which had conducted them to that point. Why
could they not have left the affair of the. Spanish succession
to be settled by the Spanish people, and why force upon Spain
the interference of a foreign country ?—( Hear, hear, hear.)
He for one could not see any good reason for the policy of
the Noble Lord, nor could he understand how his active non-
intervention system could be justified.—(Loud cheers.) A
few months after the signature of the article the Government
of tite Noble Lord was dissolved, and he was succeeded in
office by the Duke of Wellington. The Noble Duke, strongly
as he disapproved of the policy of the Noble Lord with re-
spect to Spain, yet, finding the faith of the country pledged,
at once determined to adhere not only to the letter but the
spirit of the treaty. —( Heer.) A change of Administration
having again taken place, the Noble Lord again resumed the
office which he now held, and what was his conduct in re-
spect to the affairs of Spain ? Not satisfied with the former
article, an order was issued suspending the operation of the
Foreign Enlistment Act, and thus 10,000 Englishmen were
permitted to enlist under the banner of the Queen of Spain._
( Hear, hear.) He now appealed to Hon. Members who
heard the predictions uttered within these walls when that
event took place, and he asked them whether the result
had not justified the anticipations which were then put for-
ward ?—( Hear, hear.) He might be told of the gallantry
displayed by the British soldiers in Spain. He never did, lie
never could, doubt but English soldiers would display, under
any commanders, determined courage and the most undaunted
valour ; but it did not follow on this account that his Majesty's
Government was justified in placing them in a position which
could neither reflect honour nor advantage on the country
that gave them birth.---( Cheers.) The Noble Lord, during
the Peninsular war, was Secretary for Foreign Affairs, and cer-
tainly of his conduct on that memorable occasion no one could
complain. But how different were the circumstances under
which he then acted ; and upon what different terms did the
soldiers of England at that time enter Spain.. They went,
not to assist one party of Spaniards against another, but they
went to assist what Mr. Canning emphatically called the uni-
versal Spanish people.—( Hear, hear.) They assisted a noble
cause—a cause honourable alike to Spaniards and to English-
men. He now asked the Noble Lord whether it was worth
while to endanger the peace of Europe for the prospect of any
possible advantage to be gained by this unwise interference in
the internal affairs of Spain? Might not other States, upon
equally valid pretensions, have interfered to assist the cause of
Don Carlos ? And was it worth while to endanger the ge-
neral tranquillity for such an object ?
. " Pax Missa per orbem
Ferrea belligeri compescat limina Jani."
But if the Noble Lord wished to open the Temple of War let
him throw open the gates at once, and not a little side door,
and let not British soldiers be continued in a position in which
his Majesty's Government ought never to have placed them—
( Hear.) He had read a statement on the Bth of November of the
number of Carlists killed in battle, and by the accounts he bad
seen the loss was estimated at 313,129. Now, if the Carlist
army was only estimated at 30,000 it must have been killed
ten times over, so that her Majesty's forces must have sur-
passed Alexander the Great, who " thrice slew the slain."
( Laughter.) It was now exactly a year ago, namely, March,
1836, since Count Mold, the Premier of France, stated that a
proposition had been made to him by Lord Palmerston, offer-
ing to permit the French army to take possession of Fort Pas-
sages, in Spain, in consideration of the French Government
co-operating with England in sending out an increased force
to assist her Majesty the Queen of Spain.--(Hear.) The
French Government. it was true, had not availed themselves
of the offer of the Noble Lord ; but was he on that account
the less blameable ? Time next point to which be should ad-
vert was the revolution brought about by a military insurrec-
tion under a sergeant in the Queen's army, named Garcia.
What was the policy of the Noble Lord after that event had
taken place ? He seized that very moment to lavish fresh fa-
vours on the Court, and every imaginable means were resorted
to in order to sustain the Government of revolutionary Spain.
Had his Right Hon. Friend the Member for Tamworth, or the
Duke of Wellington, fallen short in the smallest degree in the
observance of this treaty, no doubt loud complaints would
have been made by his Majesty's Government.. Already
had England expended upwards of 540,0001. Indeed, he
had good reason to believe that the suns was much greater.
Ile again admitted the obligation of England to comply with
the terms of the treaty ; but lie slid confess he expected more
sympathy from sonic Hon. Members opposite, who had been
strenuous advocates for economy in the expenditure of the
public money, and above all, he did not expect that the Hon.
Member for Middlesex would have permitted half a million of
money to be voted away without knowing the grounds upon
-which it was to be disposed of, and the purposes to which it

was to be applied, or without inquiry into the nature of the
advantages we were to receive in return for so profuse an ex-
penditure.—(Hear, hear.) He found no fault with the
representative of this country at the Court of Madrid, be-
cause it was his duty to act in accordance with the direc-
tions of the Government at home ; but there was one fact
which he might state in support of his assertion—namely,
that almost every application on the part of British subjects
who had grievances to complain of land been utterly disres
garded, and their wirongs unredressed.—( Hear, hear,) Ho
would just read an extract from a reemerial addressed Iby at.,
most all the British merchants resident in Alicante to Lord
Palmerston, which he thought conclusive on the subject. The
memorial was dated March 16, 1836 :—" My Lord,—lr is
notorious that British interests and British security have for
many years past been totally neglected by our representatives
at the Court of Madrid, notwithstanding the representations
repeatedly made by British residents in Spain. England car-
ries off at least three-fourths of the whole produce of Spain,
and Spain takes very little from England in return. All our
applications to the Ambassador in Madrid have been of no
avail ; on the contrary, seeing the little zeal displayed by our
natural protectors, the local authorities conceive that we can
be treated with the greatest impunity. We have the intole-
rable satisfaction to see that especially the Ministers of France
and America, when under the necessity of having, to make
complaints, obtain almost immediate satisfaction." Notwith-
standing, then, all the services rendered to this country by
England, notwithstanding the men and monev which they had
supplied to support the cause of the Queen's Government, they
had now the mortification to find that the grievances of French
subjects, and of American subjects (although the latter country
had not interfered in the affairs of Spain), were at once re-
dressed, while the complaints of British subjects were wholly,
disregarded. But the complah?ts of British merchants in Spain •
were not confined to Alicante. In every part of the country there
were many grievances which called loudly for redress.
Amongst the taxes to which British merchants were subject
there was one which he could not avoid mentioning. It was
called, " Por liberation del Rey," which, translated, means—
" For the delivery of the King." This was a tax imposed
during the captivity of Ferdinand, but it was found too lucra-
tive to be given up after his release, or even after his death ;
and it is to this day levied with impunity upon British mer-
chants in Spain. lf, then, as had been shown, the whole ex-
'penditure which this country had been at had done nothing to
advance our commercial interest, he would ask, had it none
anything for the furtherance of the object which it professed to
have in view ? It could not be pretended that it bad usefully
proinoted the cause for which it had been undertaken. Was
it to support such au Administration as that of Mendizabal that
.such expenses should be incurred—the Administration of, one
who, in addition to the murder of prisoners, added the' de-
frauding of the public creditor—one who had liberty in his
mouth, at the same time that he had the bayonet in his hand ?
To say that any aid thus afforded was to promote the cause of
liberty was a most unjust perversion of that name.— (Cheers).
There was another branch of the•sebject to eliich he woold call
the attention of the House, namely, that which related to the
rights and liberties of the people of Navarre and Biscay.
Was it possible that the House might n be aware
of the fact that these people were possessed cf rights and
liberties which were asilear to them as the constitutional
rights of the people of this country—won by them by strug-
gles as glorious, and secured to teem by contracts as solemn, ?
—(Cheers.) If Hun. Gentlemen were now for the first
time aware of that•fect, he was sure they would join with
him in requesting that the British Government would inter.
cede for the restoration of those rights.—( Hear.) They
were rights which had existed for centuries, and they were
endeared by every tie which could possibly endear there. He
repeathad s e etnh
ea
rumourspam phleitao
en
irtchuel astuillecrtet shop:c Snafucst ig
mi;
et its
tesl2ltv°hhui
(17dh I::,:itiedt •
heard it spoken of as containing
Noble Lord the bead of Foreign Affairs was supposed to entertain. The writer of the pamphlet contended that this
was not a struggle for privilege on the part of the Biscayans ;
and why ? Because, it was added, tney were antiquated
privileges, which never had a real existence, and were never
of any great -value. What were the pt•oofs adduced in sup-
port of this assertion ? Why, that they terve(' under Gene-
rals who were not natives—such as Villareal and Moreno_
and, therefore, they could net be engaged in a struggle for
privileges. Why, such another argument could be urged
against Spain is general ; and it might las said that the Spa-
niards bad no national predilection, beceusu they fought under
Blake and O'Donnell, and another General, who was a
Swiss. The pamphlet went on to argue that Lord Carnarvon
referred to old times and antiquated feelings ; but why should
the antiquity of privileges be supposed to weaken an attach-
ment to them ? If any writer on the Constitution of England
had used such an argument now would it have been received ?
Would the Reformation, the Bill of Rights, and the events of
the 16th century, with the privileges which they conferred, be
deemed less valuable than those of later acquisition ? Cer-
tainly not. The Noble Lord would perhaps remember a re-
cent instance of the tenacity with which the Biscayans ad-
hered to their privileges. Those conferred by the 15th arti-
cle on the Guipuscoans and Biscayans were considered so va-
luable in this country that it was said after the peace that if'
they could be induced to give them up, it would form one of
the strongest reasons for ceding Gibraltar. In the 19th page
of- this very pamphlet there was a fact which would go most
strongly to prove the value which was set upon these privi-
leges. In 1818 a levy was set on foot in Spain for the pur-
pose of re-conquering South America. This levy being un-
popular, the Biscayans claimed the right of an ancient privi-
lege to commute their quota of troops for the payment of a
certain sum of money. Recent events had proved that the
Biscayans were no cowards, and that they only availed them-
selves of the privilege through an unwillingness to oppose
their Transatlantic brethren. They therefore purchased im-
munity from the levy at the cost of ten millions of reals. Sup-
pose these privileges were of no absolute value the question was,
were they not endeared to them. The Noble Lord could, it was
to be presumed, suppose a case where privileges, though of no
absolute value, might be endeared to a people. They might
possibly be endeared by the glory which had attended their
acquisition, or they might be hallowed and consecrated by
ancient custom. In this country at least, where men could
buy an inheritance of ancient rights, it was not difficult to
understand how, even without any actual value, they might
be venerated by others.—( Hear, hear.) Some here, perhaps,
might not set the same value on those privileges as on these
fresher ones conferred by the Constitution of Madrid ; but,
though they were not so fresh or new, it was not for the house
to say that no value was set upon them by those who possessed
there.—( Hear, hear.) He would refer to one sentence not
to he found in the pamphlet of Lord Carnarvon. It was a
noble passage, quoted by Blancas, from the Acts of the Cortes
of Arragon in 1451 We have always heard of old times,
and it is found by experience that, teeing the great barren-
ness of this land and the poverty of the realm, the folk would
go hence to live and abide in other realms and lands more
fruitful if it were not for the liberties thereof." This sentence
showed the attachment of 'the people to their privileges. He
knew of no object more worthy of the sympathy of this coun-
try than the privileges of the Basque provinces. Admit-
ting that all which had been said with respect to Don
Carlos were true-athat he was a monster, and a tyrant_
still why should the parties for whom he (Lord Mahon)
pleaded be affected by his conduct? The conduct of Don
Carlos did not make against his argument, nor invalidate
it in the slightest degree. The Queen's Generals defended
their cruelty by a reference to the acts of Don Carlos. Such
! a mode of reasoning might be good as against Don Carlos,
• but it was no answer to the people of England, who abhorred
cruelty in any shape.-_( Hear.) He was not the partisan of
Don Carlos, nor did he take a partisan's view of the subject.
He took his stand upon English ground. He would not be a
party to a cabal, got tip with private views.—(Cheers.) He
would repeat he took his stand on English ground, and would
insist that cruelty on one hand could not be palliated and
glanced over with the answer that there were faults on the
other side. He felt that a stronger case—stronger in the cir-
cumstances than in the advocate—had never been made
again-a a Foreign Minister. There was scarcely any variety
of opinion on the subject throughout this countrve_(hleae.)
He did not mean to say that the general opinion of the country •
was in support of his views, but the general policy of the Go-
vernment was considered so good that it was supposed capable
of covering this particular instance—that it could bear this
defect.—(Ministerial cheers.) He meant that this was the
opinion of those who preferred the party of the Noble Lord.
It was, however, to be regretted that they could not in return
derive consolation from the from the foreign policy to counte-
nance or palliate domestic errors—( Opposition cheers)—and
the cheers from the other side only went to prove that the fo-
reign policy was tolerated rather on the score of other Govern-
ment measures than from any merits of its own.--( Renewed
cheers.) He hoped he had fulfilled this duty without exhibit-,
ing any acrimonious feeling—(Cheers)—and he called the
attention of the (louse to the subject, because lie felt in his
conscience that it was one which involved as well the honour
of England as the happiness of Spain.
Mr. C UTL Alt FE RG USS ON, after bearing testimony
to the courteous manner in which the question had been.
brought forward by the Noble Lord, from the beginning to
the end of his speech, begged leave to offer an opinion or, one
or two points.. It was admitted by the Noble Lord that the
Quadripartite Treaty should not be preferred; on the contrary,
the Noble Lord had admitted that it was the intention of the
Government of which the Noble Lord formed a part to have
carried it into effect to the letter. The treaty in itself was a
most justifiable one. The change made by Ferdinand, by
which he reverted to the ancient law, had the approbation of
the people, of the Cortes, and of the British Parliament..
The Hon. Member for Sandwich (Mr. G. Price) shook his
head at this. He should like to have the Hon. Member snow
that any part of the Spanish nation exhibited such a feeling
in favour of the Pretender, or if such a feeling was ever en-
tertained by the Cortes. Under these circumstances, Eng-
land and France, having offered their assistance, were bound,
to enter into that treaty. The first treaty entered into had
reference only to Portugal, but still it was one made for
Spanish purposes, and to prevent the Pretender from
making inroads upon Spain. Eventually Don Carlow and
Don Miguel put themselves under the protection of till% coon-
try. How was that protection repaid? When Lots Carlos
was saved front Rodil, his return for the protection afforded to
him by this country was to be found in the decree of Durango,
by which British subjects were murdered.—( Hear, hear.) After
France and England had acknowledged, as they had a right to
do, the Queen of Spain's Government, they entered into an
alliance for the expulsien of Don Carlos from that country-
Then came the arlditioital articles, which the Noble Lord said
the (level-renew had gone beyond. Now, if 1116 Noble Lord
would but refer to the second article, lie would see that the -
engagement was to furbish such supplies of arms and naval
steree as might be required, and else to fureish a naval force.
This country was also bound to the extent of supporting the -
Queen's Throne. Reference had been made to the military'
revolution of La Granja. There was no person who looked
with the eye of a statesman at military revolutions but moat
be opposed to them. For his own part he detested such re.

volutions. But the thing being effective. th, question was
whether, bemuse of this revocation, should they abandon the
treaty they had entered into? Should they abandon that
treaty because the country had adopted the Constitution of 1
1812 ? Since the adoption of that Constitution there had been
a moderation evinced on the part of the Cortes. which had
rendered them on e that nnitottnlar, hut which, with the
rrirninating, rendered them deserving of the highest praise.
'The situation of the Queen bad been tench bettered by their
proceedings. As to what had been urged by the Noble Lord
ueh respect to the Basque proviaces, he could only say that
tl c Government of this country had done nothing which inter-
fered with their privileges or their liberty. The Noble Lord
hv not let tee Spaniards tight it out? This would be
very well if theic had ',wen no interference of other Powers.
But there had been such interference. A comuiuuica-
tion had been established with Don Carlos, and if no interfe-
rence had taken place, the result would have been that Don
Carlos would now be seated on the throne of Spain, the In-
quisitien would be re-rtesblished, and the Northern Powers
N7onld have complete coritroul in that country. England in-
terfered because, in advocating the cause of tee Queen, it ad-
vocated also the cause of free institutions and constitutional
liberty=--(.Ministerial cheers)—but in doing w) she Lad not
gone one step beyond her engagements. There might be
some defects in the management of the Queen's affairs, but
these did not, in his opinion, affect the brave men of Bilboa.
Instead of feeling degraded When he heard that transaction
discussed. he felt proud that be could claim them as his cone-
trymen.—(Ministerial cheers.)
Mr. G. KNIGHT thought it useless that the life and sot.)
of *ngland should be engaged in a struggle when the peasants
were misled by Priests, and the treasure of this ceentry was
expended in a vain attempt to bring about a degree of liar-
inony which it appeared it was impossible should exist.
Mr. FE CTOR expressed his opinion, as we understood, in
favour of the people who advocated the cause of Don Cartes,
and who had been a match, and more than a match, for the
Iceiont of Wapolcon.
Lord F. EGERTON had no intention of interfering in the
discussion, but was induced to rise by one or two of the later
observations of the Hon. Member for Kirkcudbright. That
Hon. Member had taken a course with respect to the privi-
leges of the Basque provinces which was indeed consistent
enough with the whole policy of his Majesty's Government,
for it was one which led him to come to a judgment on the
advantages of those privileges to the provinces to which they
belonged, and to found the policy of this country on his own
appreciation of their utility. He (Lord Francis Egert.eri), if
that question were a fit one for the decision of that Howse,
might be induced to agree with the Hon. Member eked those
privileges might be dune away with with advantage to these
provinces if they could be induced to forego them.. On ge-
neral principles he thought that when districts, by geographical
position, and a concurrence of other eircumaterees, formed
part of a monarchy or extended artera, it was usually desir-
able that their institutions Amid merge in that general sys-
tem. He went further, and thought that it weeld be a bone.
fit to these countries if their curious and ancient lam/were
itself could be replaced by the Spanish. He believed the
Basques were in arms for their privileges not eicluairely, for
attachment to a particular succession and to the person
of their Prince, was also among their motives. And
were they to be called upon to forego and deaden all natu-
ral sympathy with a people thus fighting against superior
forces for a cause of whose merits tlaey were the sole and
proper judges? It was not necessary to be a Carlist to feel
that sympathy—it knocked at every bosom in England. The
Noble Lord had been Secretary at War through the War of
Independence. Had its records taught him nothing of Spanish
Generals and Spanish promises? If he looked for information
in the ranks of that political party to which the Noble Lord
was a recent acquisition, wag the name of Napier unknown in
oar literary annals? If he could condoacend to borrow advice
from a political opponent, but from muse who never refused his
counsel or his service when the inter is of his country wets
at stake, a walk would have taken him to Apeley House--.a
word would have brought the Duke of Wellington to Down-
itg-street. The Hoe. Member for Nottinghamshire had
thought fit to approve of the policy of Government on a aisaple
and intelligible, but, as he ( Lord Egerton) thought, a ques-
tionable, ground. Ho seemed to consider the contest in Spain
as a simple one between the extreme of bigotry and despotism
on the one hand, and rational liberty on the other. Ho (Lord
F. Egerton) doubted this conclusion. If the Noble Lord, in
the spirit of the conclusion of a pamphlet which had been much
commented upon, had ulterior views--if, instead of dabbling
with the confines of that country, of pursuing a warfare up to
high-water mark, he seriously meant to launch a force into
the interior, he warned him to beware.. He might sueceed
for the moment, but the country which sanctioned the invasion
of a moment must be prepared to sanction the expense of years
of occupation, and to take upon itself the administration of the
country. On these grounds he could not join in the eulogy
which the Hon. Member for Nottingham had passed on the
measures and policy of the Noble Lord.
Mr. Fseeussoe and Lord F. EGERTON mutually explained.
Mr. PO ULTER believed that the people of England
cordially agreed in the propriety of the assistance rendered
by our naval and artillery forces. He (Mr, Poulter) sup-
ported the Constitution in Spain, because he believed
it would be the regeneration of that country. The Eng-
lish Government were entitled to congratulation and thanes
for the cordial assistance they had given towards the working
of that Constitution.
Mr. G. PRICE said, a pamphlet had been recently pub-
lished en the subject of Spain, to which he should briefly call
the attention of the House. It was said the Noble Lord op-.
eosite was the father of the bantling, but, for the honour of
man nature, he (Mr. Grove Price) hoped it was not so. It
vas so full of inordinate vanity—to stuffed with adulation of
no Foreign Office—so crammed with fulsome praise of the
iNoble Lord, that he could not believe that he was the author.
Indeed he was sure the Noble Lord eras not. Ile knew who
wrote that tissue of trash.—(Laughter, and cries of " Name.")
In the first thirteen or fourteen pages there were twice as
many errors as folios. Errors abounded in every page of tho
book. But he should only trouble the House with the ex-
posure of a few. It contained certain statements impugning the
credit of Mr. Honan and Captain Henningsen, What was
the consequence? Within lest than forty-eight hours after
its appearance is print, Mr. Honan published a letter in the
newspapers, defying the anonymous author to prove his
counter-statement, denying every atom of his charges, and
challenging him to come forward in the face of day. Captain
Henningsea also published another refutation of it, and en-
tered, in so doing, more particularly into the merits of the,
ease. In that mendacious pamphlet it was said that Zu-
tnalacarregui caused a woman and a child to be shot. Now,
Captain Henniagern said that during his period of service,
which included the time at which the pamphlet charged the
commission of the offence, ne such act wee committed in the
army. But what did Captain Henningeen say of the Chris-
tinos? He said that they placed the children of Zavaala in
the front ranks of the troops, to the and that the first fire of
the foot trader the ooreraand of their father should destroy
them. The next error he (Mr. Grove Price) should notice
in that precious compilation was the assertion that the Eag-
lieh war in Spain was levied in this country with-wet the
knowledge, or consent, and almost in defiance, of the Go-
vernment. What I was the tetepension of the Foreign En-
listment Act done without their knowledge? Wore of eera
on half-pay, and in some caseeofficees on whole pay, permitted
to serve alinoet in defiance of them ? After such a barefaced
statement, what could the Howe think of that false and scan-
dalous production ?-4 Hear, hear.) In that production it was
also falsely charged against Don Coles that he was acceesery
to the death of Zumalecarregni. Did there exist any need to
refute it? Wee not that Prince torn from the bier of that Ge-
neral ; and did he not cry, " I hare rent rn 7 beet and bravest ?"
The real question rested on a pneceeefiag of the Collet in
3789. At that period Cheri-es the Fourth convoked them, for
the purpose of sanctioning the descent of the Crown to his
daughter, in the event of the demise of Ferdinand and Carlo!,
his 5011 S, who were then in ill health. But that act of the
Cortes wanted all the neceeeery confirmations to make it
valid ; besides which, as both eons survived and attained to
man's full estate, it was never acted on. In 1e.30 Ferdinand
the Seventh called a Cortex, net to decide on the succession,
but to ratify his will, by which Don Carlos was excluded from
the throne. That Curter never decided on the subject; they
only perfr*med the religion, ceremony of swearing allegiance
in the cathedral of Madrid. No lawyer in England, still less
any lawyer in Spain,, would, for a single moment, say that the
performance of an unmeaning religious ceremony could de-
prive the rightful heir of his claim to the Crown. The
policy of the Noble Lord uppeeito was said, in that
pamphlet, to be the uniee of the West of Europe against
the North. That was to be the palladium of European
freedom. How did matters really stand ? In the
.first place Portugal was helpless—distracted internally, and
totally impoverished. Spain was crushed and prostrate--
bleeding at every pore. Of what aid could either of those
countries be in a struggle ? While France—France, the
cherished of our bosom—turned round on us. and the Kine of
the French, in his speech at the opening of the Chambers,
made one of the eeverest remarks ever made by an ally and
a friend on our policy in that respect. He (Mr. G. Price)
would next come to the Foreign Enlistment Act,. As a Chris-
tian and a man, he hod the strongest objection to allow men,
without enthusiasm, or even sympathy for a cause, to spill
blood fur its sake. He thought it was equal to murder.
Present circumstances is Spain promised more favourable
results to Don Carlos than any since the commencement of the
struggle. He felt confidant that in two months the whole of
Spain, with the exception of the towns, would declare in his
favour. They were eager to cast off the present yoke. Even
his enemies acknowledged that he was possessed of every
private virtue. As to an Inquisition, to which he was said to
be favourable, there was nothing heard of it in Spain. There
was much more heard of it in England than in Spain. There
was no man more averse to the Inquisition than Don Carloa.
FIN Primo Minister, the Bishop of Leon, was all his life an
enemy to the Inquisition, and never sewed till he wrote it
down.--( Cries of " Yes, yeti," from Mr. O' Conseil.) Don
Carlos showed his firmness of character upon many occasions.
Ile rescued Don Manuel Gsdoy from an infuriated mob.
When entrapped to Bayonne, he refused to eive up his right
to the Crown of Spain. He said--." That God had given it
to him, and that God alone should take it away." During
many years of his brother's reign, be continued seediest in his
allegiance, though pressed to accept the Crown. The brave
Basques rose from devotion to the cause and person of Don
Carlos, not alone in sunport of their rights.
Lord PAL.NIERSTON said that the Hon. and Learned 1

Gentleman commenced by the review of a pamphlet, and he
must say that his review was far better than other reviews by
• ~professed this same opinions, rend he was sorry the
• • ‘arned Gentlernso's had not heenpretiented to them,
.;Iteot doubt that they would have most willingly
_ ;te.•!kltistllti ;The truth, however, wag, that ho (Loyd Pal-
-.'.w1.4.41.140t; not write the pamphlet. He wished he had.
been very proud to acknowledge it. The
litAk:lunsaiterneci Gentleman neat went into a grant deal a
• bistOric.4o., legal eesearch, as to the rights of n Carlos.

yro'_,=~

)

would, as he avowed, etablis-b the lenuisition in Madrid the
moment he got there? The. object o? his Nlajesty's Govern.
anent was to encourage the independence of a country which
they felt would, in the end, be of great advantne to England.
Belgium and Portugal had already established free institutions
and were advancing rapidly in the road of prosperity ; and he
hoped Spain would-soon follow their example, and become
what she ought to be, one of the greatest Powers of Europe—
not by revolution, but by reverting to her old institutions, which
had been so long neglected, and adapting them to the modern
state of society ; and if any efforts of his should tend to aid so
desirable an end, he should feel proud at being au humble
sharer in such a result. .

He was perfectly right in saying that the salique law never
existed it Spain, but there was something not unlike it ; for
by the bile, as aenctioneti by Philip, females were not entitled
to succeed to the Throne, until such time as the male line be-
came extinct. This law was altered by Ferdinand ; but the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman contended that the alteration,
not having been made consistently with the established usage,
was not binding. Now, the alteration was made by King
Ferdinand in favour of his daughter the present Queen Isa-
bella. It was esuctioned by the Cortes elected for that very
purpose, and deputed by their constituents to try and decide
upon that important question. Such was the foundation of
Isabella's claim ; and he thought the claim good. That, how-
ever, was a question with which they had nothing to do.
Even admitting that the claim of Don Carlos was better than
that of Queen Isabella, they had no more to do with it than
they had with the opposed claims of Louis Philippe and the
eider branch of the Bourbons. The question the English
Government had to consider was, how it would be most advi-
sable for them to act under the existing circumstances in Spain.
It ens impossible fur them to have done otherwise than to ac-
quiesce in the claim of the young Queen, as they found it ac-
knowledged by the public authorities and by the people of
Spain. If the Hon. and Learned Gentleman entertained any
hope that the alliance with France was soon to be dissolved
he could tell him that the alliance between France and Eng-
land would be more durable than he seemed to expect ; that
these two great nations would long, he trusted, continue to
cherish a mutual friendship, and support mutual interests. The
alliance with France was an alliance between nations, not ail
alliance between Governments. The lion. and Learned
Gentleman ventured to prophecy that in a few months the
cause of Don Carlos would triumph—that every province of
Spain would, ere long, be in arms to support him, dnd that
they were now ready to rise. The Hon. and Learned Gen-
tleman said that Spain was now the victim of democratic the-
ories, and men of violent views, whose measures must end in
a wild democracy, to be succeeded, after a long series of ca-
lamities, by a monarchical Government. Now, if anything
could give him (Lord Palmerston) more hope as to the future
than another, it was the calm, considerate, and moderate con-
duct of tho preseirt Cortes. They displayed less of violence,
less of precipitancy, were more temperate, more rational, and
steady in their proceedings than any body of the same kind
which had hitherto assembled in Spain. They gay*, every rea-
son to hope that they would continue to act wisely and pru-
dently, and at last succeed in giving to Spain a Government'of
stability and firmness. The Honourable and Learned
Gentleman and the Noble Lord (Mahon) did not seem
to be agreed as to the causes from which the civil war
now raging in Spain arose.—( Hear.) The Noble Lord
said that the people of Biscay trek up arms it support of -their
itiefros, in defence of their ancient privileges ; had the Hon.
and Learned Gentleman who spoke last rejected this idea, con-
tending that the Beeques rose in arms, not in defence of their
privilege*, but treat personal attachment—from enthusizsm in
the cause of Den Carlos. If, as the Noble Lord had said, it
wee a wee of privileges, bow happened it that the meat im..
portant, the most wealthy and influential men in the Basque
province, were of the Queen's party, and refused to canned
themselves with the Carlists ? How happened it that, in other
provinces of Spain, equally interested, and even more inte-
rested, than the Basque provinces in the maintenance of privi-
leges—how happened it that the most intelligent and most
respectable of the inhabitants were favourable to the cause of
the Queen ? Such being the case, he feared he must look
upon the Basquee, in their present struggle, as fighting against
and not in favour of liberty. The Hon. and Learned Gentle-
man spoke with enthusiasm of the advances which the Basques
had made in industry, in wealth, and prosperity, of their ho-
nesty, and love of liberty. Their hills, he said, were cultivated
to the very top, and commodious roads constructed through the
country. But what were the cause* of this prosperity ? From
what source did it arise ? If, as the Learned Gentleman thought,
it arose from the enjoyment of their boasted liberties and privi-
legeo—frem their AbLfoB-why should he or the Noble Lord
be disinclined to see liberty and all the blessings naturally con-
nected with it extend themselves to the rest of Spain ? Again,
he would beg to ask the Hon. and Learned Gentleman and the
Noble Lord if municipal institutions were found to have con-
ferred so many great and important benefits on the Basque
provinces, why they were unwilling that similar institutions
should be granted to Ireland.—(Cheers from the Ministerial
Bencqes.) He was quite ready to commend the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman for the moderation of his language in sup-
port of a cause to which it was very apparent he was enthusi-
astically attached ; but he could not extend the same praise to
the Noble Lord (Lord Mahon). The Noble Lord held office,
as ho recollected, under the late Government, and he must,
therefore, say that it was with some regret he heard the general
tone of the Noble Lord's observations upon this occasion. The
Noble Lord said he could not see by the terms of the treaty
that he had not sufficient data to direct him in coming to a de-
cision ou the question, whether they were at peace or war with
Spain. Now the Noble Lord was in office for five months
under the late Government ; he filled a responsible place in
the Foreign office. The Noble Lord was therefore acting
under this treaty.—.(Hear, hear.) He knew that the Go-
vernment of this country was liable, under the treaty, to
supply warlike stores in support of the Queen's cause—
that they were liable to be called upon for assistance.
The Noble Lord admitted that the original treaty was
justifiable, because at the time it was entered into a civil war
was raging in Portugal. If the treaty was justifiable because
there was a civil war raging in Portugal the same argument
weald justify the extension of the principle afterwards to
Spain, when a civil war broke out there, alike in character to
that of Portugal. The great object of the treaty wits the pa-
cification of the Peninsula, and the expulsion, for that purpOse,
of the-two Pretenders to the Crown—one from Portugal, the
other from Spain. The only difference subsequently intro-
duced in the treaty was that as respected Spain, they stipu-
lated on the part of England that when required to do so naval
assistance should be afforded to the Queen. The Noble Lord
put the question was their co-operation naval in the strict
construction of the word ? He should think that co-operation
to be strictly naval which was under the direction of British
naval officers, in command of British ships, the force under
whose command was naval, that force being used to act feign
the ship. in which they were employed, and from which they
drew their subsistence. The Noble Lord said the suspen-
sion of the Foreign Enlistment Bill was disgraceful to the
country. He (Lord Palmerston) thought it highly honour-
able. The course pursued by his Majesty's Government to-
wards Spain on this occasion wail nothing new. It was only the
course pursued by England towards different countries at dif-
ferent periods of her history. The Noble Lord seemed to
think that the British auxiliaries had not done all that they
iaai"ht have done since they had been sent to Spain, but the
?lode Lord should have recollected that that force was placedd•
in circumstances of peculiar difficulties—difficulties under
which there was perhaps no example in history of any body of
men having so greatly distinguished themselves as they did.
A body of s,OOO men, at once placed within musket-shot of
the enemy, without discipline, or for the most part the slight-
eit experience of military affairs, and yet from the zeal,-abi-
lity, and indefatigable exertions of their officers, this body of
men were seen to distinguish themselves when they met the
enemy. He would not venture to anticipate, as the Hon. Mem-
ber for Sandwich had done, what their future career rnight be,
but, auguring from the past, he did not think they were likely
to do lase than they had done before. The Noble Lord said,
" If we must have war, let us have it on a wide scale." Now he
(Lord Palmerston) wished to confine war within as narrow
bouada as possible. The Noble Lord was very ready to give
blame to the Government for every failure, but extremely
unwilling to give credit for any good results that ensued
from their policy. The Noble Lord had said, that such was
the zeal of the Government for revolution that the moment
the revolution of La Granja broke cut a naval force was sent
to co-operate with the revolutionists. Now, it would be seen
the co-opera:ing 1427,11 force was sent oat some months before
tile revolt of La Granja took place at all. No person could see
a military revolt such as that of La Granja without the strongest
deprecation of such a proceeding, but was it because that revolt
took place that England was to break faith with the Queen of
Spain ? Was that a reason that she should be abandoned by
her allies? Whose fault was it that the revolt of La Granja
took place? Why, it sprung from the prolongation of the
war. If the Government of Asturias had inspired a proper
confidence no such revolt would have occurred. The ,Noble
Lord had stated that the British Government had lust all in-
fluence on the Continent, even in the protection of the corn-
, mese° of the country, and to sustain this assertion he read a
! letter from a merchant at Alicante, and added that the re-
monstrances of our Minister at Madrid wore unheeded. Now
had the Noble Lord said this of the Government of Ferdi-
nand there wonld have been some truth in it, for in that reign
not only were British merchants plundered in the Spanish
j towns but British ships were piratically seized upon the high
seas, and all application for jestice was vain. He did not
mean to say that there were not some abuses of
a similar nature since, but it should be recollected
that bad habits could not easily be got rid of. He could, how-
ever, say that such uses had greatly diminished, and so far from
the British Minister at Madrid having no influence his repre-
sentations had always met with the most prompt attention ;
indeed so much so, that within a few months he hart ob-
-1 tai ned for British merchants an exemption from oppressive irn-
poqs at ports, sad letters of gratitude for this exercise of his
influence had een written by some of the first British merchants
in the country. The Noble Lord had said that France and
America had obtained redress for injuries done to their subjects
when we failed to do so; but the Noble Lord was quite mis-
taken, for there were no interests better protected at this mo-
reent in Spain than British interests. But the Noble Lord
said that we lied no influence in foreign countries. Ii the
Noble Lord meant that we exercised no intrigue to procure
the dismissal of one Ministry or the appointment of another,
he agreed with the Noble Lord, and he was happy so to do ;
and lie hoped that no Engiish Government would ever attempt
t s use so improper an influence. But if the Noble Lord meat
a respect for the Enelish nation and character, displayed by
the most friendly feelings and acts of the truest kindness, the
Noble Lord might have recently seen by the public papers th
he formed a very erroneous estimate of the value set upon the
Eragliali nation at this moment in foreign countries, and ewe-
chilly in 'Spain. He should ls• sorry to give an English rather
then a Spanish character to the war now carried on in Spain.
If the Constitution was to be eetehlished iu Spain, he wished
it to be established by Spain herself. Re did not despair of
seeing Spain rich and independent, for she had already made
great progress towards a free Coaetitutional
bolusGovernmet, and
' they muset feel that in an irelependent state she must eful
in maintainiug the balance of power. It was because Spain
was acquiring liberal institutions that the lion. Gentlemen op..
posits would withheld from that country either sympathy or
support Ha would call, then, ou the people of 'England to
look at both sides of the House.—(Cheers, heighten and
" Oh, oh.") Let the country look at the foreign policy of
the opposite side.—(Cries of " Oh, .oh. Look at their
opposition to freedom in every other country, and then
see if they were friendly to free institutions at home,
The Hon. Member for aandwich said that he disapproved of
' the Inquisition. But was ho not supporting the man who

Sir IL PEEL—The Noble Lord has pursued the same
course and arrived at the same result that he always does '
whenever the subject of his foreign policy is brought under
the consideration of the House. Three quarters of an hour
has he occupied; in the defence of his own acts, while one-half
of the House was in a state of comfortable repose and not
one solitary cheer to greet him from the other.—( Cheers and
laughter.) At last, however, to excite the attention of the
House, and rouse them from their somnolency, the Noble
Lord thought proper to makes an attack upon this side of the
House which was altogether uncalled for by anything that had
occurred in the course of the ,lebate. As if it were necessary
to be a partisan of Don Carlos because one disapproves of the
policy of the Noble Lord—as if it were impossible for us to
entertain a doubt as to the wisdom of the acts of the Noble
Lord, and of the ultimate result of his foreign policy, without ,
at the same time wishing to crush the career of liberty in
Spain, and to blast the rising hopes of liberal institu-
tions.—( Hear, hear). I, for one, Sir, openly disavow all
sense of participation in the objects of Don Carlos.—( Hear,
hear.) In saving this, I only repeat language I have often
used before.—( Hear, hear.) I say distinctly that I wish •
to see Spain enjoying a solid liberty, under such institutions
as may be most congenial to her habits and best calculated
by slow degrees, to ensure a permanent and rational freedom.
( Hear, hear, from the Ministerial benches.) But while I en-
tertain these optnioas, I at the same time think that by your
policy you have gene to defeat those very objects.—( Loud
Opposition cheers.) I say that by your uncertain meddling,
your total departure from that principle on which we profess
to act—that of non-intervention in the internal civil affairs of
foreign Statea—by your undertaking to mix yourselves up
with the intestine discords of another country, you are taking I
a course that will not redound to the character of England,
while it will not insure the affections of the people of Spain,
who ought to be left to their own exertions, in order to obtain
their own freedom.—( Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord has
told us what were the objects of the Quadruple Treaty;
but where has he shown us that any one of them has been
fulfilled ? I do not hesitate at the same time to repeat
my conviction that, the treaty having been ratified, it
ought by all means to be fulfilled, not in the letter merely
but in the spirit. To question the policy of that engage-
ment is not at all incompatible with my declaration that,
having been made, it ought to be acted up to. But now
as to its objects. The Noble Lord had told us there were four
or five ; and the first, he told us, was the increase of our com-
mercial privileges and prosperity in the Peninsula. Now, I
should like to ask him to show how far he has hitherto suc-
ceeded in attaining his object. He says that our merchants in
Spain are all satisfaction at the present state of the commerce
of this country with the Peninsula. The Noble Lord will,
ere long, have a distinct opportunity for affording an explana-
tion on this head, as an Hon. Friend of mine proposes on an
early day to bring before the House a separate motion on
this head, wholly separated from all considerations of a party
nature, with a view to make a clear exposition of the present
state of our commerce is Spain. The Noble Lord will then
be able to expound his views on this point. But does he now
mean gravely to say that the general commercial policy of
Spain is favourable to us? How many articles of our produce
are prohibited from entering Spain ? And since he came into
office has that prohibition been mitigated ? In Portugal, too,
does he pride himself upon the result of his exertions? Does
he mean to say that since the establishment of these free in-
stitutions, of which he has said so much--since the triumph
of the cause of Donna Maria—the trade of this country has
been placed on a more favourable footing in Portugal ? Why,
Sir, I say that the universal complaint among our merchants
is that there is in Portugal a spirit of hostility towards our
commerce.—( Hear.) The Noble Lord then says that an-
other of the objects of the Treaty was to give naval aid to the
Peninsula; a course, according to him, productive of immense
advantages ; for, says the Noble Lord, we do not commit our-
selves to the civil and internal contests in those countries.
But if it be of such immense importance that the aid to Spain
should be limited to naval aid, how does the Noble Lord re-
concile his principle with the repeal of the Foreign Enliatment
Act as far as Spain is coneerned? Then the Noble Lord
talks of the stability of Peninsular institutions.—( Hear.)
Stability of institutions I Why, since the Noble Lord has
come into office, he has had no less than two revolutions. He
has complimented himself on the energy of the Queen's Go-
vernment, and we have heard panegyrics on the Estatuto
Real ; but he has had a military insurrection both in Spain
and Portugal—( Hear, hear)—and he has testified to us that as
far as his "moral " aid could go, he did what he could to de-
feat the institutions now existieg in Portugal.—(Hear.) Why
did we have six sail of the line at the mouth of the Tagus ?
Was that a specimen of his naval co-operation ? Was that
for the purpose of protecting the British merchants and the
British population in Portugal ? Then another object, the Noble
Lord says, of the Quadruple Treaty was the pacification of the
Peninsula. Has ho succeeded in that? The Noble Lord speaks
of the horrors that have attended the career of Don Carlos.--of
the application of the Durango decree to British soldiers. He
alludes to these things for the purpose of raising a cheer, as
he supposes, against this side of the House, as if we defended
those atrocities. But suppose we were to enter into a detail
of the abominations that have unhappily been committed on
the Christino side—the murder of the mother of Cabrera,
for instance—and then ask him whether he rejoiced in such
abominable and sanguinary proceedings ?—( Hear.) But the
question is not merely whether you have or have not brought
'about a pacification of the Peninsula. The real question is,
if you have, by a military intervention, produced a temporary
pacification, will you get a more settled form of government,
or a greater prospect of obtaining firmer institutions—based on
liberty combined with order—than if you had never interfered
at all, but had allowed the Spaniards to work out their own
political regeneration by their own unaided efforts ?—( Hear,
hear, hear.) Has not a jealousy of the troops of England
been manifested—a reluctance that they should triumph by
our means ? If the efforts of those troops have been pa-
ralysed by indifference and jealousy, then I say you cannot
biro a more conclusive proof that the effect of our inter-
ference is not favourable to the establishment of a firm and
petrinanent Government.—(Hear, hear.) Tho Noble Lord
says that our present policy has been most wise, for that by
confining our interference to naval aid, we have rescued our-
selves from the risk of all the civil contests of the Peninsula.
If that is hie opinion, it is net the opinion of the author of the
pamphlet, as to which he says that, although he is not its au-
thor, he wishes he was its author, and ho adopts all its senti-
ments.—(Hear, hoar, and a laugh.) So successful has been
our policy—secording to the author of this pamphlet, whose
literary fame the Noble Lord envies so much, and which has
now an importance it lied not before, now that the Noble
Lord has adopted its sentiments—and so satisfactory is the
effect of our naval co-operation, that he concludes his observa-
tions with these words 1--." A few troops sent to Spain, to
which Spanish divisions might he attached, and the guarantee
of a loan—( Hear, hear)—fax which ample security might be
given us, are all that are wanted to make Spain tranquil, and
England even more honoured and respected than she has ever
been." So, it seems, the naval co-operation has failed—it is
not so wise a scheme after all.
Lord PA LME sTo N— It has not failed. _ _

_.a.
Sir R. PEEL—Not failed 1 Why, if the Noble Lord will
consult the pamphlet of which he wishes ho were the author,
he will find that all that is now wanting is a few troops to be
sent to Spain under the flag of England—not by mesas of the
Foreign Enlistment Act—that they may form the nucleus of
Spanish armies and—a loan.—( Hear. hear, and laughter.)
But tho pamphleteer goes on We repeat our hope that
some such measure will speedily be proposed by the Govern-
ment to Parliament, or by Parliament to Government—(Loud
laughter)--and that it will be carried into execution with that
energy and determination which should always charaterize the
policy of England."—( Hear, hear.) Now, the Noble Lord
has of course been waiting until this loan and military inter-
vention shall be forced on him by Parliament—( A laugh)__
but I think if he waits still longer he will find an equal reluc-
tance on the part of this House to do so--( Hear, hear)—and
we may, therefore, reasonably expect that the Noble Lord,
raopria) rigore, will make that proposition to:Parliament which
Parliament is unwilling to originate. —( Hear, and a lauah.)
Sir, one of the main avowed objects of this treaty was the 'con-
solidation of our alliance with France. The Noble Lord says
that our alliance with France is an intimate one, because it is
founded on the similarity of our mutual interests, and the
identity of our mutual objects.
Mr. C. WOOD—IIe said nothing about it.
Sir IL PEEL—Nothing about iti The Hon. Secretary
to the Admiralty, being visited by that fit of somnolency to
which I have already referred, did not hear the Noble Lord's
allusion to the identity of interests between this country and
France.—( A laugh.) I trust that the good understanding
that prevails between this country and France may be an inti-
mate and a permanent one. I trust that those mutual jealou-
sies and rivalries which so long prevented an identification of
interests, and that good understanding will give way to a bet-
ter knowledge of each other, aid a community of commercial
interests. I think it is of great importance that this should
ake place. Bait if the understanding between us and France
rests on so good a foundation it seems not necessary to confirm
it by the ratification of a treaty with regard to Spain. There
certainly was a remarkable silence in his Britannic Majesty's
speech on this aubject.—( Hear.) There was also a paragraph
in tlie seeali of the King of France—no doubt not intended
at all to reflect on our foreign policy—but which did appear
in unequivocal terms to assert the inipolicy of a nation having
soldiers in another country under any other than the national
Bag.—( Hear.) Now the Government of Franco may not have
caught exactly the delicate wording of King's speeches,
but when I see this pamphlet speaking of the policy of the
King of France in terms of reprobation—the pamphlet, re-
member, of which the Noble Lord wishes he were the author
—I cannot help suspecting that, as far as our intimate good
uudarstanding with the King of France is concerned, the
Quadruple Treaty has not materially advanced it:—(Opposi-
tion cheers.) Nor do I see that we have any valid ground of
complaint against France in this respect. We have departed
from that principle of non-intervention which was the peculiar
boast at Hon. Gentlemen opposite. I thought that it had
been the declaration of Fox and other great Whig authorities
that, whatever may be our abstract notions on the subject—
liberal policy, good government, or free trade—your maxim
had not been to attempt to impose those opinions on other
countries, but to leave the majority of the people of each coun-
try to organise their own Governments on their own principles.
The people of the Basque provinces may be very wrong to

100.NDON, SANITIWAY, lit, W.