The Sun.
London, England, 1830-04-30 00:00:00

LAW REFORMS.

Mr. BROUGHA3I—I have now, Sir, to call the at-
tention of the House to a subject which I brought under
their notice about two years ago ; and I ought, perhaps,
to begin by explaining why I did not renew the considera-
tion of it at an earlier period than the preaeut. In con-
sequence of the motion I then made, two Commissions
were issued for the purpose of instituting inquiries into
the state of the Common Law and Equity. Both Com-
missions have since made reports on the subjects referred
to them. The Equity Commissioners made one report,
and a second was soon expected-from them. The Common
Law Commissioners made a full report. If I had pursued
the subject after the first report had been published, I
should have done it under every disadvantage ; for the
Commissioners then disclosed their doubts and difficulties
on several question., and announced their second report,
in which they said that many of these questions would re-
ceive their decision. Of course, it was impossible for me
to know what to do, till I knew what course they would
adopt. Let it not here escape notice, that I am anxious
to express my perfect and entire satisfaction at the manner
in which the Commissioners have discharged their duty.
They have proceeded with the greatest possible delibe-
rateness, and although much remains to be performed, the
portion of the subject they have investigated is unques-
tionably of paramount importance. I therefore do not
complain that they have treated the question before them
too lightly, and certainly not of inadequate execution of
the duties imposed upon them. I hold their inquiry to
have been conducted in a proper spirit, pursuing a middle
course between rashnesa and subserviency—neither setting
too much at naught the long-pondered decisions of autho-
rity, nor evincing that overstrained respect for existing
institutions which too often degenerates into a veneration
for existing abuses. They brought to the enquiry not
only great theoretical learnings but long experience as
practical men ; and their second report, especially, con-
tains suggestions well worthy the most anxious considera-
tion. The report is full of profound thought and of moat
ingenious invention (if I may so speak), upon the science
and practice of the law, and it has received from the pro-
fession at large—and, indeed, from all who are not of the
profession, and who are capable of understanding the ques-
tion, the most unqualified approbation. I will venture to
say, that not within a century and a half ha. been pro-
duced in this country anything like a document with so
much important matter, partly their own suggestions
and partly the facts they have been enabled by evidence
to establish. This being my deliberate opinion of the
merit of the Commissioners, and of the importance
of their labours, it cannot he supposed for a moment
that I bring forward this subject in any spirit of hos-
tility. On the contrary, I go hand-in-hand with them ;
I take up the part of the question they have left untouched,
and if, in the first place, I saw any prospect (I mean any
prospect within a reasonable time), that their inquiries
would be disected to the residue of the subject; or if, in
the second place, that residue avers inseparably connected
with the duties they have already discharged, I should be
at least willing to defer my motion, if I did not leave it
entirely in their hands. After the best consideration I
have been able to apply to the matter, I do not think that
their attention is likely to be directed to what still remains
undone within a reasonable time; nor do I see that it is
inseparably and essentially mixed up with the result of
their inquiries, and I therefore presume to call the atten-
tion of the house to it. If a man was told that there
was a country, in which, in order to recover a debt of 6/.
or 71., it was necessary that the creditor should begin with
the expenditure of 601. or 70/. of his own money, thus
running the risk, according to the old raying, of " throw-
ing good money after bad," I think the man who was so
told would at once assert, that whatever other advantages
such a country might possess, it was unfortunate in its
system of law. But if he were farther informed, that
after spending this 601. er 701. for the recovery of 61. or
71., the creditor should he subjected to long delay---ta
great anxiety—to no little anxiety; and, being bandied
shoat from province to province, before he could obtain a
verdict, his envy of such a country and its legal institu-
tions would be still further diminished. If, to this infor-
mation, it were added, that in the same country, after
having spent 60/. of 701., the adversary of the creditor
would have the power of keeping all his property out of
his way, so that after his expencs, all his delay, and all his
anxiety, it was doubtful whether he could obtain a single
farthing of his debt ; if, furthermore, it was added, that in
the saute country, if the debtor were solvent and willing to
pay what the law required from his hands, the creditor
would receive, it is true, his original claim of 61. or 71.,
but not the whole of what he had expended to recover it,
by about 20/., so that on the balance he would he some
14/. or 15/. out of pocket by success; the individual to
whom this strange information was given, if he supposed j
it possible that such a country existed, would at least pro-
neunce it to he one of the most barbarous and unen
lightened of the world. That it must be a poor country,
he would think quite obvious—of no commercial power, of
no extent of capital—of no density of population, because
those circumstances would necessarily produce from hour
to hour transactions involving important and valuable in-
terests—nevertheless, I need not remind the House, for •
every man who hears me, or does not hear me, must be
aware of the fact that such a country, so unfortunately cir-
cumstanced, is no other than that in which I now speak—
England. Then arises the question, how is this admitted j
evil to be remedied ? and in order to know how tie reme-
dy is to be applied, the first point is to ascertain whence
proceeds the evil ? I am thus entering at once into the
middle of my subject, and 1 am persuaded that such is
the most convenient and expedient course, because it ena-
bles me at once to see and grapple with the real difficul-
ties of the inquiry, to which, far be it from me for one
moment to shut my eyes. That part of the mischief that
can be got rid of, I call upon you to remove. I formerly
took the opportunity of stating a kind of experiment I
made at one of the Lancaster assizes, when my Right Hon.
and Learned Friend (Sir T. Scarlett) was present. I re-
quested the prothonotary to furnish me with a list of
about fifty verdicts recovered during that assize, and the
average amount of those verdicts I found to be under four_
teen pounds—thirteen pounds odd shillings each. I do
not mean to represent that there were not three or four
actions in which the damages were nominal ; some of them
actions
.of ejectment, and others suits to decide rights ;

!hilt the bulk of the verdicts were on actions of debt, or
of the nature of debt, and the average IV3B less than the
sum for which, by law, a creditor may hold his debtor to
bail. I am far from saying that such is the general re-
sult of actions, either at the assizes; or in London ; but
still it is not muchout of the general course. Taking the'eve-
rage of the five years ending in 1827, the number of ac-
tions brought in all the Courts of Westminster is some-
thing under 80,000. I believe that the precise amount
is 79,600. The number of these brought to trial is only
69,000, for many, after they have been commenced, are
not pursued on account tf the cost, delay, and vexation
to which I have already directed attention. It is not,
however, with that viaw that I state the fact. If lion.
Members wish to form some estimate of the sums for wh:ch
such actions are generally brought, they will be enabled
to do so front a document upon the table. I will not go
into its details, but what I am about to state is at least a
near approximation to the results. A retuin was made in
1827 of the number of affidavits of debt in the Courts of
King's Bench and Common Pleas for two years and a half.
The number of those affidavits for sums above 10/. was
93,000 odd hundreds, but in round numbers we will call
it 93,000. These 93,000 affidavits were made the found i-
tions of 79,000 actions; for an affidavit of debt, as every
body knows, is the, earliest proceeding in the commence-
ment of an action. Let us see, then, in what proportion
:he affidavits were fur small sums, moderate sums, and
large sums. Twenty-nine thousand eight hundred were
for stuns between 10/. and 201, and no more;
34,200 were for sums between 20/. and 501.,i mak-
ing together 64,000 out of 83,000 for sums not exceeding
50/. For sums not exceeding 1001., and, of course, in-
cluding the 64.000, the number of actions was no less than
78,000. Thus the House will observe, that of the whole
number of 93,000, there were no less than one-third for
sums not exceeding 201 ; no less than two-thirds fer sums
not exceeding 501. ; and no less than five-sixths for sums
not exceeding 1001. The House will pardon me for not
going inure into details—what I have stated is the result of
recollection, and I pledge myself for its . accuracy, and it
will be perceived at once that it leads to a most important
practical conclusion—that the vast bulk of the litigation
of the country resolves itself, as far as actions of debt and
in the nature of debt go, into actions where the sum in
dispute is not more than 100/. I now beg to draw the
notice of the House with greater particalarity to what a
creditor is exposed who undertakes to prosecute an action:
I have hitherto dealt only in general description of his ex-
pences and sufferings. In their first Report, towards the
close of their appendix, the Commissioners have inserted
some valuable tables of costs, and to one of them, applicable
to an action in the Court of King's Bench, I beg leave
to request especial attention. First, I should state, that
these are teal bills of costs; and next, that they are re- •
duced to the very lowest scale of expenditure. One of
them was an action front Lancaster tried in London, and
the Bill clearly shows not only that the costs are set down
at the lowest possible ra,e, hut in the proceeding there
was no incident at all out of the ordinary course. There-
fore, the circumstances were most favourable, both as re-
gards cheapness and expedition. The costs, in order to
obtain the verdict (and before anything was done upon a
specie! ca a reserved for the opinion of the Court), where
eighty-six pounds odd shillings. The whole costs, includ-
ing that flu ther proceeding necessary before the plaintiff
could derive any benefit front his verdict, was 1101,; but
of that sum is to be deducted no more than the sum of
10/. odd shillings, for the delay of a term in hearing the
argument, and of 6/. fur the delay of a sitting in bringing
the cause to trial. The recommendations of the Commis-
sioners are most proper and important, and when carried
into execution by legislative enactments, will be productive
of great practical good in this respect ; and I admit that
a considerable part of the costs was occasioned by the at-
tendance of witnesses—l do not mean to ray that I admit
it—l assert it--I maintain it, for it is to he one of the
principal grounds on which I rest the proposition I ant
about to submit. True it is, the cause was a country
cause brought to be tried in London, and equally true it is,
that if, instead of being tried in London, it had been tried at
Lancaster or at York, the same expence must have been
incurred according to all ordinary calculations of chances.
The witnesses were an architect, a master carpenter,
and labourers ; and in taxing costs, two guineas a day
are allowed for an architect, or surgeon, physician, or
any person of skill and science. Fifteen shillings a day
are allowed fur a master carpenter, and five shillings a day
for a labourer, to which are to be added travelling ex-
, pences, which I perceive, are at the rate of eightpenee
per mile. Then, as to delay, let me remark that the
delay in trying a cause at the assizes is often much greater
than in trying a cause in London ; and there can be
no manner of doubt that this very circumstance was one
of the causes operating upon the plaintiff in inducing him
to prefer London to the country. In London, by making
the case a special jury, his attorney and witnesses would
only have to wait one, or at most two, days, while at York
or Lancaster, they might be deteined for lour, five, six—
aye, and 1 have known it, for ten, twelve, or fourteen days
before the trial was brought on. Attorney s are allowed
two guineas a-day if they have only one cause at the
Assizes, and one guinea a day if they have two; and a
plaintiff is not answerable if it should happen that his at-
torney has only one cause ; all his witnesses are to be paid,
not only going and returning, but while they are in the
Assize town; and as long as the present system continues,
I look upon this as essential to and inseparable from it—
as necessary a part of the expenditure as the retaining of
Counsel or the employment of an attorney ; indeed, I am
not sure if it be not even more necessary. Now, how
much is to he added on account of the difference between
the costs incurred and the costs taxed? That is to say,
after obtaining the costs recovered front an a lveraary as the
consequence of the verdict, how much is a plaintiff out
of pocket? It may be remembered that I formerly pro-
duced to the House four bills of casts, all from the offices
of most respectable attorneys ; in one of 4001. about 2001.
(or half) was deducted on taxation ; in another one-third
was taxed off, 70/. being deducted from 210/. or 2201. ;
in a third instance, which was the lowest of the whole, be-
cause the action (for 501.) was undefended, 15/. out of 60/.
(or one-fourth) was deducted on the taxation of the bill.
If the defendant had been litigious, and, with the aid of a
long purse, had resisted the claim, the expence would have
been raised to SOL before the plaintiff obtained his verdict,
according to the plan recommended by the Commissioners,
and 1001. before he obtained his final judgment. The result
of the whole is, that the party gained exactly nothing by re-
covering his verdict for 50/. In addition, he would have
been exposed to all the vexation of delay, anti to the dis-
tress of uncertainty, and if he be a man, who, for the first
time, has brought an action in a Court of Justice, it is
most likely to be his last experiment of the kind. I am
here taking au instance most favourable to the other side
of the question, and it is needless to say, that it is any-
thing rather than an average case ; in general, those who
succeed have to pay more than they receive, and are often
considerably out of pocket. What is the result but
this?.—that no man in his senses would think of proceed-
ing in an English Court of Justice for such a sum as 20/.
or 301., or I should sty for any sum under 40/. or 501.,
and a wise man would almost put up with an ex-
tortionate claim to that extent, rather than incur
the hat ird of resisting it, even thought he might have
the plaintiffs stamped receipt in his pocket. If a party
succeeds he cannot gain, and if he is defeated, he is
sure to be a great loser. I had very lately occasion to
speak with an - attorney of extensive practve, residing
only twenty miles from the Assize town, upon this
point, and he agreed with me that no plaintiff ought to
think of seeking redress, even at the distance of only
twenty miles, for a smaller sum than 401. I am well
aware that it is not only always easier to point out defects
than to apply remedies; but he that propounds a cure for
mischief of the widest extent, and for intolerable oppres •
sione, according to the unanimous admission of all persons
of all ranks, exposes himself, and gives an opponent a de-
cided advantage ; he is always more or less in the predi-
cament of an adventurer; he always seems to he a person
who sets his wits above those of wiser men who have gone
before him ; and I therefore unfeignedly avow that I feel
much distrust of myself, in bringing forward that which
Appears to me a remedy. I ant peifectly sensible that
something will be done when the recommendations of the
Commissioners are carried into elf et ; and I know, and I
rejoice to know, that some of the great evils will be re-
moved, as the result of their inquiries ; but I am equally
certain, that still mouth will remain to be done, and 1
trust the kind of remedy I propose will be one which,
while it carries further the deign of the Commissioners
themselves, will be found most accurately and nicely to
chime in with, instead of being repugnant to their prin-
ciples. I have stated the principal causes of the evils we
all see and stiffer ; and I now proceed at once to the re-
medy. The great evil arises out of the distance to which
parties arc necessarily dragged, in order to obtain a deci-
sion upon their rights. For many, many ages it has been
the system of English jurisprudence, that justice should be
administered in the centre of the kingdom, er what is
politically, though not geographically, its centre. The
metropolis; has been made as it were the great mart of
justice, front whence all process issues, and to which ail
process is returned. This is not of itself the cause of the
expence of which I complain—because the mere difference
of sending to town for a writ is not of itself worth con-
sidering in point of expends, for it would be little les.
were it sent from York or .Lancaster. Out of this fact,
however, arises another part of the system to which the
same observation is not applicable. The Judges corn,:

(rum London, as well as the writs, and a plaintiff must
wait until the Judge visits the country, before he el'e
have his cause tried. The .Judge arrives in the province
once in every half year, and in the interval ne redress eaa
be had. But that is not all ;—when the cause is tried
the party must go perhaps to the remotest corner of the
county where the assize town is situated, and there
he must be attend. d by his legal agents, advisers, anti
witnesses, and perhaps they may be detained during
the whole assizes. Witnesses must be paid for
their time, and must, besides, he maintained ; and
if an attorney behaves shabbily to his witnesses, he is
sure, frosts one or other of them, to pay for it before
the conclusion of the cause. Then conies another stage
of the proceeding equally attended with expense
any point he reserved on an appeal made from the decision
at Nisi Priug, it must be discussed in London, and to
London the agents must be sent with great delay and
great and unnecessary expellee. Now what is the obvious
remedy for these evils? One proposition of mine would
certainly- go to alter the mode of issuing proem, and an-
other would be to diminish the arrear of costs—so
that portion of the bill of the costs which arises
from unnecessary delay, lopping off 101. from the larger,
and 01. from the smaller. I expect that there will be
:steel) facility in respect of time, much facility in respect
of certainty, and somewhat of diminution in respect of
costs. The means to which I look, as I think capable of
producieg those effects, I shall not now more particularly
allude than as regards that improvement which will be
brought about by having documents proved by the sub'
scribing witnesses without the cost of bringing then'
down in attendance upon the Court at the time of trials.--
frnm which I iunicipate a very considerable saving of e):'
ence. I think, also, that the system of pleading will be
most materially improved by the suggestions made in this
Report--some of these suggestions contain some of the
happiest thoughts—some of the most ingenious contriv-
ances, I will say some of the most profound suggestions
fur promoting convenience and despatch, with which the
science of pleading has yet been enriched, well worthy °f
the attention of the most learned lawyers, and well worthy
of the learned lawyers from whom they have proceeded•
Impel-tent as are convenience and certainty, there is no
greater evil than the remove] of suitors and causes to 5
distance from the ordinary residence of the former to the
capital, where alone I am, of course, perfectly willing to
admit, causes should be heard in the last resort. I hope
the House will pardon me, if I remind them that tee great
and crying mischief in this matter arises from causes in-
volving amounts between 20/. and 100/ , not being ea.-
pall,. of being brought to trial in that cheap, easy, and
speedy manner which suitors have a right to expect. in
order to make my views better appreciated, I would fain
solicit the attention to what was oar old scheme of juris-
prudence. I still regard with admiration and attachment
that principle which recognised the seat of justice at the
capital, as the heart from which all the members of the
judicial body circulated twice a year throughout the king'
dons, conveying from Westminster Hall justice in its peril,
and full vigour to the remotest parts of the country.
feel as fully as any man the great and manifest advantage,
of that practice. But long antecedent to that there existed
in this country a practice much more simple, no doubt, anti
more likely to have arisen in a backward state of societY'
while at the same time it was a much more convenient
mode than any now in use. I speak of this mode of
trial in the Couuty Court, antiquaries differ not a little 55
to the origin (if this Court, but as to its early e"u-
stitution and jurisdiction of that Court, there can he
less debate. My (awn opinion is, that it was origi-
nally a Court of Commercial as well as of Civil Juris-
diction—at all events there can be no question that in
Saxon times it had jurisdiction of all causes. Ecelesias-
tical as well as Civil, and that the Bishop sat in it as the
Civil ruler of the county. We learn front Kennett, that
the Bishop and the Earl were to meet the county—the
one to stare the law of God—the other the law of the
laud; or as he expressed it, the one to teach the people
the law of God, and the other the law of the land. pt
that time then, every man in all ordinary causes, in the
first place, was to seek justice at home, and when he had
been refused it, then, and not till then, he was to sees.
it of the King. He was in no case to seek it of the King
until he had failed to obtain in the County Court. 03
this point nothing can he more satisfactory than Sir HarrY
Speiman. "No marl," he says, " shall seek justice from the
King till he has first endeavoured to get his burden light-
ened by the Sheriff." In the Gth of William the Con-
queror there was a celebrate.' cause ie the County Court
of Kent, at which the Bishop, the Earl, the Sheriff, acd
all the principal persons of the county attended ; it was a
meeting which lasted rather longer titan some late meetings
of that county have lacteal; it continued during a period
of three days, and matters of great importance were dis-
posed of at it, and property of great value.—manors t'l
great value were disposed of. This was the state of the
County Court at the time of which I am speaking. BY
degrees, however, the authority of the Sheriff came to he
limited from the extensive civil jurisdiction which he had
formerly enjoyed, and an inferier description of suitors
assigned to him—in a more advanced society, perhaps, it
was found that what hail been extremely well adapted t°
a more simple social system, was not so well suited to so-
ciety in its further progress. By the Statute of Glonces'
ter in the 6th of Henry I. the exclusive jurisdiction of
the Sheriff's Court was limited to cases of forty shilling"
Perhaps a century, or a century anal a half elapsed before
the maximum and minimum were fixed ; but at the time
of which it was that the exclusive jurisdiction of the
Court was fixed at forty shillings. I say exclusive, for it
might entertain causes of larger amount in common with
o her Courts. This Court was essentially English, what-
ever changes it may have undergone in the lapse of ages.
I shall now, with the permission of the House, call ite
attention to the history of the County Court in the Sister
kingdom of Scotland. I am far from saying that Iv"
should be too easily led by precedents, but when there
a good example, when the precedent is safe and the ex-
ample good, I can understand nu reason why we should
be slow te take advantage of it. Its considering whether
or not we ought to adopt a new system or recur to the
old one, we migie act prudently in looking to see how it
acted in any other country in which it might have been
iutroduced or preserved. I presume I need not remind
the House that, however widely our present systeill,
of jurisprudence way differ—l mean the system'
of England and of Scotland—time was when they
were one and the same ; their origin was exactly identi-
cal. The best illustration I can give of this is that the
oldest laws of both are so closely allied, that the distinc-
tions subsisting between them can scarcely be traced-
Though proceeding for a long time together, and in close
resemblance with each other, and though England may
have effected vast improvements, far surpassing any
adopted by Scotland, yet something possessing a good
deal of valise too might have been preserved in Scotland,
which was lost in England. With all my prepossessions
in favour of the law of England, I think Scotland may
yet have retained some portions of the ancient Hystero,
common to both countries, which we have lost, the,
original County Court, at which the Bishop and Earl or
Alderman, with the Viscount or Sheriff, presided. In
Scotland the Sheriff's Court took cognizance of the four
pleas of the Crown, with the permission of the Justiciars
and in all civil suits, the County Courts were of unlimited
jurisdiction. The appointment to the office of Sheriff
soon took a different turn ; the office of Sheriff, originally
elective, was then made an appointment for years, and
afterwards for life ; it then came in Scotland to he con-
ferred in fee—the Earl became hereditary, and the Vie-
count or Sheriff a privileged individual, well known to
the laws of that country. It was not until lately that
at the abolition of the heritable jurisdictions, the County
Court was put upon its present advantageous footing-
The number of forfeitures in the rebellions of 1715 and
in 1745 vested almost all those jurisdictions in the Crowns
There are. none of the hereditary jurisdictions not open to
serious objection, except the hereditary jurisdiction vested
in the Peers of this realm of England, to which no ob-
jections of that nature at all apply. In the year 1746 an
Act was passed abolishing all the hereditary jurisdictions,
and vesting all the shrievalties in the Crown ; and the
first step taken thereupon was to appoint Sheriffs-depute
in each county. The persons appointed to that office
were for the most gentlemen of sonic professional stand'
ing at the bar, and the Court over which they presided
took cognizance of all matters, to which a very extensive
civil juriedieth n could be applied. Those officers were
paid a modera e, reasonable salary and their appointment
was attended with the best effects to the administration
of justice in that country. I should be happy to witness
a still further improvement ; I should he glad to see a
Sheriff-depute residing within this county, and holding
his Court himself, and not leaving it to be held by hi'
substitute ; and I think the system, in its main principle,
could be introduced into this country with the highest ad-
vantage. Those Court!, were found to have worked well
in Scotland, and afforded (heap and convenient justice.
The Sheriff's Court in Scotland was competent to enter-
tain nearly all ordinary causes of actions—all actions of
debt to any amount—actions of damages on almost any
cause of complaint—actions of defamation, assault,
false imprisonment, malicious prosecutions, criminal
conversation, trespass, trover, seduction, and almost
all actions of tort. Now, let us look to the works.
ing of the Sheriff's Court in Scotland. During an aye.. ,
rage of three years—the e Ira 1821, 2, and 3, there were
22,000 some odd hunched causes tried in the Sheriff's
Courts in Scotland in each year for till:, amount of

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find upwards—this was of course exclusive of such mat-
ters -as had been tried before Justices of the Peace. Now
taking a comparative view of the property in England
and in Scotland, and assuming that the wealth of the
one was between six and seven times as great as that of
the other, we should, had we similar Courts in England,
have between 120,000 and 130,000 causes tried in Eng-
land in the same time. Of the number of actions com-
menced, not one-eleventh are brought to trial--not per-
haps 7,000 in 80,000. The County Court I regard as
°no peculiarly well calculated to afford satisfactions to
suitors ; and to those who may be satisfied there will
always be the appellate jurisdiction; and to those who may
have more difficult or complex questions to decide, and
graver causes of action to bring forward, there will
ajwalahe the superior court. The Sheriff's Courts of Scot-
-Than...ad IlisPose in a manner perfectly satisfactory to the great
of the inhabitente, a great amount of causes, and a
gredt- amount of property. In the district of Lanark,
Which includes Glasgow, there is, one year with another,
Prorate,,)
to the amount of 500,0001. decided on—if the
e Proportions to t subsisted in an Eou nglibe sh district property,
he amount of 3,000,000 wld disposed of in the
same tunes Have we then in all this nothing to induce
Us to recur to our old law—the English law, the Saxon
i
hlaw .of our ancestors ? Scotland has still kept it up, and
as found it answer. I do not desire you to do the same
merely because Scotland has done so; but we have in this
country grievous and crying neschiefs which the people
of that country have not. Let us try if, by the adoption
of that system, we may not, in some degree, remedy the
evil of which we have had so much reason to complain. Be-
fore coining to the proposition with which I mean to con-
elude, I shall briefly advert to the expense of the Sheriff's
Court in Scotland. A debt of 121., where there is no liti-
gation, or what in this country would be called an unde-
fended cause, the expense is 10s. ; where the sum amounts
to 25/. the cost is 15s. ; and when it amounts to 501. the
cost is little more than 15s. : and where it amounts to
100/. the cost is only 20s. There are cases where there
is no litigation—where the causes are undefended—but
even where there is litigation, the expense is trifling corn-
Pared to what it is in this country. Even in a contested
Face, where the matter in dispute amounts to 121. it may
ne recovered for costs of 51. taxed, and the recovering
Party is only put to an expense or actual loss of ss. ; where
the amount is 50/. it may be recovered for 101. or 12/.
with a loss of 10s. or 12s. ; and even a debt of 1001.
without the euccesaful party losing more than 20s. Now
with all my prejudices in favour of English judicial esta-
blishments aud the English system of jurisprudence,
I must be allowed to say that I do envy Scotland the
possession and enjoyment of that tribunal—that cheap
and convenient justice. I may venture to call it cheap,
when 100/. can be recovered for an outlay of 12/., and an
ultimate loss of twenty shillings. I may well call it
cheap when in this country 100/. can seldom be recovered
Without the sacrifice of half the sum. It now remains for
us to consider bow we can extend the County Courts to
this country, and adapt that jurisdiction to the system of
making the capital the source of general justice fur the
realm at large. I feel that I am trespassing much upon
the indulgence of the House by thus entering inta detail,
and I should gladly avoid doing so if I ceull accomplish
the object which I have in view without entering into
those minute par ticulare.—( Hear, hear.)---It is the greatest
possible error to imagine that interior suitors ought to have
inferior Judges ; that when questions are to he decided re-
ePectireg persons of superior rank, wealth, and intelligence,
mea of superior intellect and station should be provided for
that purpose ; that when a matter of 100/. or upwards is
te be decided, a high and distinguished Judge should be
employed for that purpose; but that a matter only involv-
ing two, three, five, or six pounds, any thing will do for a
Judge; a Sheriff, or a Sheriff Assessor, or whatever name
ty.bear, any one will answer to preside in a Court for
:utal ma
td ni.
aioet s
of such petty concerns, whether he be a mn
unqualified—a man of sense or a man of no
itenoeseeiLtfo:igfy ptnhieoor man, it seems to be the opinion that it
what sort of judicature he has to decide
if causes. To my mind no notions appear to be more
etude than these. Forty shillings are of more importance
to hi~n than the sum for which the great man litigates;
and the poor man contest, not only for the sake of the sum
lat issue, but that he might not be subject to wrong and
; and he feels that oppression the more grievous
Mel intolerable, seeing that it is an evil reserved for the
elms to which he himself belongs. It is net always for
th° awn disputed that he goes to law : he proceeds in re-
aistance of wrong and oppression, and he sues as readily
for 2e. as for 405., in the resistance of that wrong. In
thus frame of mind, then, he goes away from Court as
rash' dissatisfied as the wealthier suitor who has lost
diLs-)fi°l- and, give me leave to say, he has a right to be
a„--„sa°llted, and his is a dissatisfaction which will not be
-lar'llaesi otherwise than by a full supply of that justice
hitherto denied him. I know these Judges in the Courts
of Request do good—l say they do good by comparison,
better something of justice than nothing--it may be slo
venly justice, •but so precious a thing is justice that I
slsould rather have even slovenly justice than the absolute,
peremptory, and'inflexible denial of all justice. It hap-
pens that "tradesmen, who know nothing of law, and
who may not have much occupation in their own
business, preside at these Courts of Request, and admi-
nister as well as might be expected. I say it is better to
have these than have none. There are two hundred
and. forty of these Courts of Request, with jurisdiction
of front 40s. to 5/. ; but that is not enongh—the
system of cheap justice must be more widely extended. I
shall now advert to a prevailing error—that which goes to
recommend the use of a local appellate jurisdiction—that
Lthink open to this, among other objections, that it
would lead to one system of law for one district, and a dif-
ferent system for another. I may here step aside to ob-
serve that I wish the appellate jurisdiction received more
attention in the quarter that ought to attend to it than I
find it does ; and, while upon this subject, I cannot help
expressing a desire, with reference to colonial appeals, that
there were upon the Privy Council some Judges, who, by
their knowledge of, and residence in, the colonies, would
have acquired some acquaintance with their laws and re-
Dilations, instead of that body, as it now does, knowing
I,l.;thie. j`!gof•the feelings of the people whence those appeals
I have thrown out, in passing, these few observa-
tions on the nature of the appellant jurisdiction, and the
evils which in it seem to me to require remedy, although
that branch of the administration of justice is not imme-
diately connected with the question before me. While,
hwever, I am on that part of the subject, I may as well
!!'y a few words on the nature of the appellant jurisdic-
tion, as it- operates on our brethren of Scotland—(Hear,
hear)--who have, in my opinion, very great reason to
complain of the-practice which sends them in all cases of
the- last • resort, to the House of Lords in this country. I
do think that the anomaly which this practice presents in
has
Case of our brethren of Scotland—an anomaly which
llas existed ever since the Union, affords there very reason-
able ground of complaint ; and the patience with which
they. have borne the evil of being compelled to bring all
their appeals in the last resort to this country, and very
frequently before men who were not acquainted with the
peculiar nature of the Scotch law, on which the decisions
of the lower Court were founded, has always appeared to
Ate unaccountable. Our neighbours of Siodand seem to
be well aware of the nature of their rights, and to be by
110 means unwilling to enter into litigation, as, indeed, all
Persons are bound and have a right to do, who feel that
they are wronged; and I confess I can only explain their
Patient endurance of the evil I have described, and which
;utast be so great an obstacle to their obtaining cheap and
:h concurrence
Justice, by supposing it to have been owing to,
of accidental circumstances. In the first
yhere.
iw were not matey appeals immediately after the
and n the next place, there happened at the same
time to be a succession of Lerd Chancellors in this c00n-
,e,17, who, to the very highest fame as lawyers at the Eng-
lish Ber--aebo, to a reputation paramount above that of
all' their
as contemporaries, and which at once pointed them
the more fit to be raised to such an eminence—
added that other—it appears a most essential—qualifica-
tion, a thorough knowledge of the nature of the practice
uf Scotch appeals, from having been, for many years of
their lives employed in them as advocates before their ele-
vation to the Woolsack. First, then, was Lord Hard-
Wicke, who, in addition to the highest qualifications for the
Performance of the ditties of Lord Chancellor as an English
lawyer, possessed the reputation of being thoroughly well
acquainted with the law of Scoteh appeals. Then there
came Lerd Mansfield, who, in addition to the highest
name as a lawyer, was himself a Scutchman, and long
employed as an advocate in Scotch appeals. Then there
followed Lord Loughborough, who was also an eminent
Scotch lawyer; and to these eminent men succeeded Lord
F.ltion—a man who, besides standing as high in repute-
LIZ
ascoankeEnhgimlissf'
heila.wyer as any Judge since the times of
who, besides, I say, being mar-
vellemsly-supeCemicently skilled in every branch of English
law,
.adtled to his extraordinary acquirements that of being
pmdigiously
learnedin
and had actuall in every part of the law of Scotland,
hies lite in Im,,been employed for full fifteen years of
before the 14onsi'or LoeverY appeal which was be.srd
great men It was to a succession of these
EtigiNtde,ndaa's.Lord Chancellors, that we were
doubtless to look,
tience with which our brethied on to account for the pa-
bot:ite the ileConVeriience of three of Scotland have hitherto
. n systemof appeals. But if
the time ever came when a•-peesou would -fill the situation
of Judge in the last resort, who, e
moderate acquaint-
gaaa with English Law, gained. his 4_
..Cst knowledge of

Scotch Law from being called on to decide on the merits
of an appeal from the decision of the Courts of Scotland,
then the anomaly would be seen in its full force ; but the
means of accounting for it would be gone. I cannot, 'in-
deed, avoid—let it give offence where it may—expressing
my opinion on this occasion that the nature of the arrange-
ments, with respect to the disposal of Scotch Appeals, is a
subject infinitely worthy of the best, the most serious, and
the earliest consideration of his Majesty's Government—
( liear, hear.) I have been somewhat drawn aside from
the question before me by the observations I have felt it
my duty to make on the nature of the appellate Jurisdic-
tion ; but having said thus much, I shall now proceed to
explain in what manner I propose to carry into execution
the principles I have laid down, and to show how a tri-
bunal may be constituted, through which the people of
this country may be able to obtain that most desirable
object, cheap justice, in the speediest manner, in a cause of
a moderate amount. What I suggest then is, that there
be appointed in each county or district, as the case may be,
a lawyer of a certain number of years' standing, who is to
be the Judge in the last, instance, in causes under a certain
I sum, and in the first instance under certain regulations, in
causes over that sum. In the first case, I would enable
this Judge in all cases where the sum in litigation is under
ten pounds, to call the parties before him—to examine both
the claimant as well as his adversary—to dispose of the
claim—to give judgment—to award execution—and to
specify the time when, and the amounts in which the in-
stalments in furtherance of that execution arc to he paid.
Above the sum of ten pounds I would give the parties power
to go before the same Judge, who would be authorised to
call on the adverse party to answer, they having power to
employ professional assistance if thought necessary, and to
determine the matter in dispute, and examine witnesses if
they so think fit. I would limit the jurisdiction of the
Officer, or Judge I may call him, in this instance to the
sum of 100/. in point of value, but I would not limit him
witn respect to the nature of the causes to be tried—for I
would give him jurisdiction over all causes except those
relating to freehold or copyhold property. I would give
him jurisdiction in all
.matters of torts, as well as of debts,
but I would make his decision in these cases open to ap-
peal, final, in all matters above ten pounds—open to
view in all causes from ten up to one hundred pounds. I.
now proceed to show in what way I think this appeal
should be managed, and I cannot but think that it would
be a great relief to the suitors if this appeal lay to the
Judges on Circuit, and not to the Superior Courts of
Westminster Hall. There might, however, be good rea-
sons in some cases for not bringing the appeal before a
particular Judge going Circuit, and I should therefore
remedy that inconvenience by allowing the option of an
appeal to Westminster Hall, with certain restrictions only
as to costs. I would allow, therefore, an appeal either to
Westminster Hall or the Judges on Circuit ; but, if the
party carried the cause to the more distant and expensive
tribunal, I would allow the opposing party double, or, in
some cases, perhaps, treble costs. I think it right to
add, for the satisfaction of those professional gentlemen
who may hear me, that by these appeals—l mean motions
for new trials in all cases where the Judge may have ruled
a disputed point of law, or he supposed to have decided
contrary to the evidence—in these cases I would allow a
motion to be made to the Judge going the ensuing Circuit
for a new trial, notice being given to the other side that it
is intended to make the motion, in order that he may be
present at the Assizes, and have Counsel ready to argue
the case if he thinks fit. Ido not mean that this is to be
according to the practice usual in the Court of Common
Pleas, where the party, without notice to the other side,
obtains a rule to show cause, and the matter is afterwards
heard upon that rule being served on the other side, but I
mean it to be according to the long established practice of
the Equity Courts, where the notice is served before the
hearing, and the Judge has an opportunity of knowing the
whole merits of the case by hearing both parties before
him. lam now giving an outline of the measures which
I think necessary to accomplish my object, but I have not
yet mentioned the necessity of having recourse to Trial by
Jury. Far be it from me to say that there are not many
cases in which the 'trial by Judges might fairly be
dispensed with ; but when in connection with the
question of Trial by Jury, the name of Mr. Jeremy
Bentham is forced on my recollection—a man whose merit
as a philosopher, and as a benefactor of mankind, is
above all praise—a man who has the transcendent merit
—I say it without hesitation—of being the founder of all
legal reform, and who must go down to future ages with
the reputation of having been the only great and effectual
purifier of our judicial system—when I pay to him the tri-
bute of my admiration and my gratitude for the eminent
services he has rendered to his country and to mankind
during the course of his long, laborious, and useful life—
( Hear, bear)—l retract no praise, I qualify no admira-
tion, when 1 say, in connection with this subject, that far
from agreeing with him in tke whole of those reforms,
which he ! has at various times proposed—(Hear, hear)
—I differ from him in degree—he going much farther in
some instances than I am in some instances disposed to go.
But I differ from him also in the kind of reform which he
proposes—but in nothing more than in that which he sue..
pets with respect to trial by Jury. Ido not mean to say
that he is an enemy to trial by jury, but I think he under-
values its importance in cases in which I believe it to be
peculiarly applicable. On all points where conflicting tes-
timony is produced--wherever many witnesses are exa-
mined—whenever a great variety of documentary and pa-
! role testimony has been produced—wherever the cir-
cumstances of the case are such that no direct tee-

timony can be brought forward to show on which
side lies the truth—l say, thcp, that in these, and
in all the variety of cases connected with them,
trial by jury is of incalculable value in ascertaining to
which party belongs the right in dispensing rigid and
impartial justice. And I contend that there were never
any means so perfectly well fitted to that end as the as-
sembling twelve men of various habits—of different de-
grees of experience—of different kinds of- feeling—of dif-
ferent forms of understanding, and bringing them all to
bear upon the same case; and make their minds, however
differently constituted, weigh the nature of the evidence
brought before them. It may seem a little paradoxical ;
but it is hue, that the snaking their concurrence com-
pulsory has always appeared to me to be one of not
the least important of the peculiar advantages of this
method of trial. If the question to be decided by a
Jury was once allowed to a majority, then the result
would be, that those who were anxious to get through
the business would commence disturbing the delibera-
tions of the others by just some such cries of " Ques-
tion" as we sometimes bear impatiently urged by more
pilished • and intellectual assemblies—.(A laugh)—and
there would be no possibility of any question being
thoroughly and fairly discussed. It might scorn para-
doxical, but I repeat that this kind of compulsory una-
nimity has always appeared to me to be a very great
advantage. I have sa,d before that I would give this
tribunal power over all civil actions under one hundred
pounds; and among these I would include actions for
assault, for false imprisonment, and all cases of. injury
to property : and I trust, if the plan I propose be
not carried into full effect at once, that at all
events I shall have the satisfaction of seeing an
experiment take place in some parts of the country; and I
can have no doubt that the effect will then be such as to
lead to its universal adoption. Alluding to the trial by

jury, I must say, however, that I have found it extremely

difficult to determine what cases should or should not be
left for trial by Jury ; not for want of time—for I have
long and frequently deliberated upon the subject--but I
confess I am unable to specify what cases should or should
not be tried by a Jury. All cases above 101. I propose,
therefore, to leave in some measure dependent on circum-
stances. The pleadings in a ranee will now, by the sug-
gestion of the Law Commissioners, be brought within a
moderate compass. They will now, as of old, tell the very
story of the plaintiff and of the defendant. They will tell
what the cause is which is to be tried. The defendant
will know what the plaintiff demands from him, and the
plaintiff will know what is the real defence to the action.
The Commissioners in their second Report, have recom-
mended various alterations in the pleadings, and I have
no doubt, that by the adoption of others better fitted to
the local judicature, all difficulties in that way would be
done away with. With the ease then clearly stated in the
pleadings, I apprehend there can be no difficulty in a Judge
being able to say at once, that this is a case that ought not
to go to a Jury. I would, however—although I permit
the Judge to make this declaration—impose a restraint
upon its exercise. If the Judge says there is no necessity
for a reference to a Jury, and if the parties themselves are
willing to admit that it should not be referred to a Jury,
then I say no mischief can be done by allowing the Judge
and the parties to dispo,e of the case in a manner which
may seem must agreeable to them. Having now stated
the kinds of action which I would allow to be brought in
these Courts, and having stated the nature of the judica-
ture which I think Parliament are bound to give their
sanction to for the attainment of that most desirable ob-
ject—the speedy, cheap, and convenient administration of
justice—l now come to that upon which I shall be ex-
pected to say a few words, namely, the expense attendant
on the system I would wish to introduce. That this
Judge or Officer must be a man of weight in his proles-
.ion is beyond all doubt; and I think, therefore, it will be
admitted that-he ought-to have a salary adequate to the
rank be may hold in his profession. Far this salary I "am
ilso ready to admit he should work constantly. The sit-
tings should be at least once in the month, for ten months

its
in the year. Six of thoe lake pilf.e
the principal town in the e:miitr, two in each of t!i,
two principal towns in entit,tv. that he miy
able to carry about wit's hit a retirus+ to every in
door; and that those who are siqpted in remote part,
of the district may twi..e a year .it least have an oppot-

tunity of bringing their cases before a competent tri-
bunal. In Ire!awl the Assistaet Barristers, and in
Scotland the Sheriff Courts, have long need with-
out the intervention of a Jury, on a principle re-
sembling that which I now wish to introduce ; and
although I have not heard that any inconvenience
resulted from t'fe practice, even when the sum in dispott
has frequently amounted to 201. or 301.,-yet I think it
more eligible to have the benefit of a Jury when it is con-
sidered desirable. I have said that the parties are to be at
liberty to move for a nem trial before Vie Judge on Circuit.
I think it necessary that the Minor Court should attend
on such °evasions ; and that he should therefore be in tire
Commission of Assize. Sitting with the Judge, reading
his report of the tria', when the point reserved comes to be'
considered, it must be highly advantageous to to have his
assistance in the course of the argument. That he should
have no voice in the decision, experience and reason com-
bining to satisfy us. I say it without prejudice to any of
the Judges, that though it has proved very convenient,
when motions for new trials are considered, that the Judge
who tried the cause should be present, yet the fact of that
Judge having a voice in the decision, and sitting therefore
to support it, although it may be erroneous—fur Judges
sometimes are—sitting., therefore, I say to support his own
opinion, to bolster up error, and to back the prejudices
which he may have conceived at the trio', I know that it
has operated, and does frequently lead to inisdecision ; and
I have myself frequently witnessed cases in which I was
morally certain the decision would have been different
if the cause in which the application was made had come
out of a Court in which one of the Judges then
sitting to hear the Appeal had not presided. I repeat,
therefore, that it is not consistent with experience
to- allow this Judge to have a voice, although his presence
may be of advantage ; and I apprehend that these appeals,
even when not carried into execution, will have an ex-
cellent effect in superintending, as it were, the whole ad-
ministration of the law ; and that they will have the
effect of preserving the same law throughout the country,
and avoiding those differences which might grow up, and
which might give us one law here, and another there, if
there were not some general tribunals to regulate the dif-
ferences of opinion. I come now to the expellee which
must be incurred by this system. That these Judges
must have competent salaries will be admitted, and that
their Court must possess an officer somewhat in the cha-
racter of a registrar, an assistant clerk, and one or two
ushers, cannot well be denied, because, if we create these
Courts at all, we must do it in such a manner as to ren-
der them competent to the end proposed. Looking, there-
fore, at the expence in the most economical point of view,
I think 1,500/. a year would not be too much for the sa-
lary of such an officer. That he must be a man of emi-
nence in his profession is plain ; and so far from thinking
that sum too large, I have some doubt whether it is not

too little. Taking the whole expence of the whole of
these Courts at such a scale, and including all the neces-
sary officers, I think it will amount to something about
120,000/. or 130,000/. a year. Let those who consi-
der this sum as large, look to the amount which France
pays for a- cheap and convenient adininistration of jus-

tice. In France there are between 3,500 or 4,000
Local ➢lagistrates, whose duty it is to decide on cases to

the amount of one hundred francs, which is about four
pounds sterling, but looking to the difference in the value
of money in the two countries, it might, perhaps, he more
fairly estimated at double the amount. For this portion
of the administration of its justice, France pays the sum of
121,0001. sterling yearly. After these come the Courts
of Premiere Instance, of which there are between three
and four hundred for Arrondisements. The Judges of
these amount to 1,600, and they are supported at an es•
pence of 125,0001. a year. Then follows the Courts of
Appeal, which cost 70,0001. a year ; and, lastly, there is
the Cour de Cassation, being the Court of ultimate ap-
peal, the expence of which is 25,000/. a year. The whole
civil administration of justice in France costs, therefore,
something above 300,0001. a year. The whole civil and
criminal cost 525,000/. a year. But, again, considering
the difference in the value of money and cheap living in
the two countries, this may be reckoned at something not
much short of 800,000/. a year of our money. That
France has thought wisely that there was no price too
high—no sum too great to be paid for a speedy and
effectual administration of justice—and that we can
possibly grudge 130,0001. or 150,000/. a year for
the some inestimable advantage, I shall never be-
lieve until I am taught it . by a vote of this House.
Why it really would not amount to one three weeks
of the extra expenditure of the last year of the late
war. I do not mean that the ordinary expences of the
country, or the interest of the debt, or any other of the
settled burthens—nor do I mean to say that we spent
only 50,000/. a week during that period of the war.
What I aay is, that we spent a sum in any three weeks of
the last year of the war sufficient to have purchased in
perpetuity the whole annuity required now for a cheap,
speedy, and certain administration of justice. I do not
mean to say that the functions of these officers are to he
wholly confined to litigious cases. I conceive they can be
employed with great effect as arbitrators, and that many
causes can, by their assistance, be settled out of Court,
without the necessity of a tall. If it is allowed that the
Judge appointed has meat enough to deserve the confi-
dence of the Government, and therefore possess the cha-
racter of an able lawyer and upright man, then it must
be admitted that he is as competent to decide between
parties as an arbitrator, as any person who could be
chosen. What would he so likely to satisfy parties dis-
posed to enter into litigation, as that the same persons
who were qualified to sit as Judges in their cause, should
be empowered and prepared to act as arbitrators between
them ? Sir, there is still another subject on which
I wish to say a few words ; but as I am unwilling
to trespass longer on the patience of the House, I will
merely treat it generally and cursorily. I allude to
Courts of Conciliation, The advantage which must re-
sult from talking a matter over calmly and privately with
litigant parties ; to tell a plaintiff that it was foolish
for him to proceed—for that it was clear that he must lose
his cause, or tell a defendant that it was foolish for him
to continue his defence as lie must be saddled with costs,
must, it would appear, be occasionally attended with the
greatest advantages. It is indeed the line which a good,
a faithful Counsel always takes when he is called upon for
advice. Nevertheless, the fact is, that in several cases the
experiment has filed. It has failed wherever the resort
to the Conciliation Courts has been compulsory. In
France it has signally failed. M. Levaaseur, a distinguished
French writer on legal subjects, has stated that the cases
of reference to a Court of Conciliation, in which the
differences between parties have been amicably settled,
were always extremely rare, anal that of late years those
Courts have become a dead letter. In the Netherlandsand
in Holland the same thing has been experienced ; so much
so, that it is not intended to renew those Courts in the re-
moulding of the legal code of those countries, which is at
present going on. 1 understand, however, that in Sweden
the result of the establishment of Courts of Conciliation
has been more favourable. In Denmark the advantages have
been greater than anywhere else. In Switzerland, from
which country I have the most authentic information, the
experience of two districts has been different. In the one,
in which it has been compulsory on contending parties to
go in the first instance before the Court of Conciliation,
and to receive the advice of the Judges of that Court, be-
ing prevented from commencing an action in a Court of
Law without the previous possession of a certificate of non-
conciliation from the first Court, the cases of benefit have
been few. But in Geneva, where the resort to the Court
of Conciliation is more of an optional nature, I find, from
returns which I have received for three years-1825,
1826, and 1827—that from one-third to one-fourth of the
whole of the actions brought into the Court of Conciliation
have terminated either by withdrawing the proceedings or
by the conciliation of the parties. I do not exactly know
what proportion the one of those modes of termination has
borne to the other ; but I imagine that they are nearly
equal, and consequently that from a seventh to an eighth of
the cases brought into the Court of Conciliation, at Ge-
neva, have been settled by the conciliation of the parties.
But then it is if the parties phase to bring them. It is not
compulsory on either party to do so. When, however, the
cues do come before the Court of Conciliation, the result
has been that which I have described. Such being the fact,
I have a right to maintain that this is no impracticable
measure ; I have a right to maintain that the suggestion to
establish similar Courts in this country is a suggestion
founded on the success of those Courts elsewhere. Why is
it that we frequently find a man go into a Court of Justice
with a case which turns out to be wholly unsupportable?
Because that he has, more or less, been misled by advice.
Not frequently by his Barrister ; not frequently by having
received from his Counsel an opinion, that an action is
maintainable which is not maintainable, God forbid that
I should suppose any such thing. I well know that a Coun-
sel is more apt to dissuade from litigation than to encourage
it; that he is disposed rather to throw cold water upon a
litigious disposition—to express doubts, where there seems
the slightest foundation for them. This I well know to
be the codaman course of the profession, in at least ninety-
nine cases out of a hundred. I need hardly say, that it is
the course adopted by all respectable men; I need hardly,

4 y, that whe e it i. not adopted, the man is not reepect-
dile. Bt, are sz os i s my lesning towards the pro
':amen of the le-ea—highly as I estimate the honour, the
integrity, end the ether valiathle qualities of the great mess
of it monileirs —sineerely as I beieve, that instances of a
departure from just principle are exceedingly rare among
them, I will wet sly that there are no such departures even
in that branch of the profession to which I have the honour
to belong. I will not say that it is absolutely ssible
to find a man at the liar who may occasionally give an
opinion, the effect of which is to encourage his client to
proceed, when he ought to give an opinion, the effect of
which would be to discriurage him. Still less will I say,
Sir, that there may not be found men in the other branches
of the profession who will go to such a man to get that
identical opinion ; and who, if they do not succeed in get-
ting it, will substitute an opinion of their own, and tell
their client be is sure to gain, what they ought to know,
and what they do know, he is sure to lose, This I know
that men cone every day to consult Counsel, and that
when those Counsel have heard their case, they lift up
their hands and eyes, and wonder who could have advised
them to go to law. It, does happen in some instances that
parts of a case are kept back from a Counsel. Now, in all
cases, the man who is the most ignorant of the chances of
success or failure is the unfortunate client, who, it is not
surprising, therefore, is some-imes enticed to go on until
he finds too late that he has been deceived. The men
tyke deceive their clients ignorantly and unwittingly, are,
perhaps, not a few; the men who deceive their clients
wilfully and knowingly, are, I hope, very few. Bat my
respect for those branches of the profession which com-
prehend solicitors and attorneys, any more than my re-
spect fur my own branch of the profession, will still not
allow me to deny that the cases are frequent where an
attorney will draw his client on to a desperate and un-
certain litigation, less frequent where an attorney will
involve his client in a suit which he well knows he must
lose. In such cases, if the client would only be seen
and talked to by men of knowledge, integrity, and sta-
tion, apart from his attorney; and if he should be told
that his cue either was one of a desperate character, sir
seas one in which he must he inevitably defeated, I am
persuaded that the utter ruin of the client would often be
averted. This, Sir, is an opinion founded on reason, and
founded also upon observation and experience. lam con-
vinced that the appointment of persons of great knowledge
and integrity, to whom such a reference could be made,
would be attended with the most beneficial consequences.
I am convinced that the appointment of local Judges for
this and the other purposes which I before described would
give cheap justice to the whole country. Whether or not
my opinion on that subject will be the opinion of these
whose opinion is most influential in this House I do not
know; but this I know, that they who reject my propesi-
tine are imperatively called upon, by the state of existing
circumstances, to point out some other proposition, the
adoption of which may be productive of equal benefits.
I care not for the names of institutions; nothing is so
useless, or indeed absurd as to preserve the name of
an institution when its substance has disappeared.—
Let them, therefore, call their proposed institution by
what name they will—let them arrange the details
of that institution as they will—that it is imperative upon
them to propose something—that the circumstances of
the present time are so exigent that we can no longer
go on without an extensive amelioration of our legal
system—are facts, of the reality of which I am not less per-
snarled than I are of my own existence, or that I stand
here addressing the House of Commons. Sir, the people
have a right to this amelioration—they are crying out,
they arc impatient for it. It is for want of it that they
distrust the intentions of Government; it is fur want of it
that they distrust those who are desirous of introducing
other descriptions of reform. Sir, I have heard it said,
when auy one has raised his voice against abuses, that he
was clamouring against our existing establishments; that
he was attacking our venerable Institutions ; that he was
endeavouring to subvert the ancient law of the land. But,
Sir, that where there is abuse there ought to be clamour ;
that voices ought to be raised where grievances prevail,
is a principle for which I have no less an authority than
than that of Mr. Burke; no friend of popular clamour,
no inciter of popular delusion, no hot-headed and visionary
reformer, no impugner of the wisdom. of our ancestors, no
foe' to established institutions. Mr. Burke has said, in
words that deserve to be inscribed in letters of gold over
the door of every Legislative Assembly--" Where there i■
abuse there ought to he clamour. It is better to have our
slumbers broken by the fire-bell, than to perish in flames
in our beds."—(lfear.)—Sir, in my attempts to produce
some beneficial change in these matters, I have been ex-
poeed to two clams of antagonist objectors. By the one
I have been told that the reform I proposed is insufficient,
unavailing--that it is merely a mock reform. From others,
I learn that what I propose is rashly dangerous, that
I am reckless of consequences, that I shall risk institutions
which are the objects of the attachment and veneration of
all good men. I deny both the one and the other of these
imputations. As on the one hand, I have no intention to
confine myself to a mock !dorm, so on the other hand, I
am conscious that what I do propose will not endanger any
thing which deserves to be preserved. Idisregard the con-
demnation of those who do not know my motives ; but,
above all, I disregard the base slanders of others, some
of whom I will venture to say, are perfectly conscious
of the falsehood of the charges which they launch against
me. Because I have not proceeded more rapidly in the
course which I have prescribed to myself, because I have
not proceeded in it hastily, because I have not proceeded
in it rashly, I have lived to lee myself charged with
being engaged in a secret and corrupt league with
those who are fattening by the abuse which I am a❑x-
ious to abate. I have been so charged ! I ! Who at
the very moment when these infamous slanders were
propagating, was refusing the highest official station ;
and refusing it because I was engaged in pursuits and
objects which must prevent the renewal of the proposi-
tion—refusing it upon principle ; upon political and pub-
lic, as well as upon personal considerations. But, Sir,
did I regard the slander? Was I silenced by it? Did it
make me change colour? Did it induce me to falter in
my course ? Did it not rather quicken the pace at which
I was advancing?
False honour cheers, and lying fame alarms,
Whom ? but the worthless and the false ?"

It has been the lot of all men, in all ages, and all
countries, who have aspired to honour by endeavouring
to instruct or benefit mankind, to have their path beset
by real adversaries or fictitious friends. By the one no
quarter is shown them ; by the other no kind or chari-
table construction is put on their actions. They are
placed on the horns of a dilemma ; but tiuth will survive
when calumny has had its day. For iny own part, I have
regarded with equal indifference the censures of those who
have thought me too. hot and rash, and the censures of
those who have thought me too cold and slow. I have
felt the justice of the converse of the declaration—" Woe
unto you when all men shall speak well of you." Whe-
ther, however, i may be considered too timid, or too ad-
venturous. I shall go steadily forward ; .pursuing the prin-
ciples which have been laid down for us by those who
have gone before us, and who have left us their example
and their success ; the one for our imitation—the other
for our encouragement ; in the hope that I may be even-
tually able to establish that local jurisdiction from which
I anticipate benefits so important. I now move, Sir, for
leave to bring in a Bill to establish Local Jurisdictions in
certain Districts in England.—(Hear, hear, hear.)
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said he did not rise to
oppose his Hon. and Leafned Friend's motion, but to
make a few observation,' on what had fallen from him in
the course of his able and eloquent speech. In the first
place be begged to disclaim any participation in the
charges which his Hon. and Learned Friend stated had been
brought against him for the course which he had thought
proper to pursue. The House would not expect that he
should follow his Hon. and Learned Friend into the ample
field which he had entered on the present occasion. His
fic.n. and Learned Friend's object appeared to be not to '
alter but to add to the Constitution ; and to add to it by
reviving ancient institutions, which ancient institutions
his Hon. and Learned Friend considered indispensable to
meet the exigency of the present times. In all that his
lion. and Learned Friend had stated respecting the history
of Sheriffs' Courts, he entirely concurred. He went further
than his Hon. and Learned Friend, and would advert to
the Courts which were held by Lords of Manors. In
fact, in those remote periods, the whole face of the
country seemed to have been divided into small local
jurisdictions. Was it not probable, however, from their
discontinuance, that they were found to be less advan-
tageous than his Hon. and Learned Friend supposed? Was
it not probable that those petty local jurisdictions were
round to he beset with inconveniences and prejudices?
Would it not be very difficult to obtain in such limited
districts, either impartial Juries or impartial Judges;
advantages which our present system secured to
? The more uniform our law was, undoubtedly the
better. He was far from saying that much was not wanted
to meet some of the cases to which his Hon. and Learned
Friend had adverted. He was a warm advocate for new
tribunals if necessary, or for an amendment of the old, in
order to uphold the cheapest and most efficient adminis-
tration of justice. Some years ago, he had himself brought
in a Bill which met the approbation of his Noble Friend
apposite, who had distinguished himself so highly on sub-
jects of this nature, and of his Right Hon. Friend near
him—and which had passed that House—for placing the
County Courts of the County Palatine of Lancaster On an

improved footing, and for facilitating the administration of
Tustin in them.. At that time he had stated, that if the
were adopted and proved salutary, it might be made
m for amending the Coanty Courts throughout the
kingdom. The proposition i his lion. and Learned
Friend, therefore, though of great importance, was not
ali-.2;.,::ther novel. In many of the principles which had been
laid down by his Hon. and Learned Friend, lie entire];
concurred, and in none more cordially than in his ad-
herence to Trial by Jury. Whatever philosophers might
say, he trusted the people of England would never de-
part from that institution. It was the best tribunal for de-
termining on litigated facts—it placed the powers of admi-
nistering justice in the hands of the people, and if they were
ever to part with it, it would be the first step towards the
abandonment of all their civil and political privile4es. How
were the loc:d jurisdictions to be reconciled? So far
from his being influenced by any fear of subverting ancient
institutions, he should be ready to concur in whatever be
could find of real and practical benefit in the proposals;
and he was equally as far as his lion. Friend from any
dssp.,,sition to yield to any clamour that might be raised on
the subject. lie, however, mairytained that the posseision
of a thing, mail it was found inconvenient, was itself an
advantage, and change, for the mere purpose or sake of
change, was never to be desired. To seek practical go Al
without the least regard to those who cried out against a
subversion of ancient institutions, and against change, was

his fixed determination. In the state in which the House
was, be could not he expected to follow his Hon. Friend
through his laborious, long, and meditated discussion.
Suffice it to say, be rose to support the proposition, at
least as far as respected an examination into the measure.
Mr. FERGUSSON said that his Learned and Hon.
Friend had prefaced his admirable address by an apology,
that those who had acted with so much credit to them-
&lees in the commi-sion of law inquiry, hod not touched
upon the points which formed the main subject of his ad-
dress. It was not competent for him (Mt. Fergasson) to
eater into the subjects of the new Courts, but examine
into the old : but the second Report of the Commission
contained some of the most important observations, and the
Attorney-General ought to attend to them, as they would
make the common law more effectual, and lessen the busi-
nso of the Equity Courts materially. The proposition
was, not to supersede the jurisdiction of the superior
Courts, but to enable them to give better justice to the
The poor had a right to have their questions liti-
gated before the sane learning and the same ability as the
rich ; and it was, therefore, proposed that a Judge should
be appointed in every county perfectly capable of conduct-
ing causes with satisfaction to the public. There never
had been, in any country, so equitable an institution as
the Sheriffs' Courts in Scotland. The only fault now to
be found with them was that they had adopted the ma-
chinery which encumbered the Court of Session itself.
With one proposition of his Hon. and Learned Friend be
could not agree. Part of his plan was that the Sheriff
should be old Led to reside within the county. If this
were to be enactll, the House had debated with worse
than no effect the question of Welch Jurisdiction, where
the obje.ltion was that the Judges officiated where they
acted as Barristers on the circuit. The less the Judges
resided in the county where they dispensed justice the bet-

ter. He should now allude to . the manner in which the
laws of Scotland were tieeided in the last resort. There
never had existed a Court of Appeal in any country wh, re
any men had to pronounce judgment iu the last resort, with-
out any knowledge of the law on which they had to decide.
The Parliament and the Privy Council took upon them-
selves to decide upon questions of which they knew no-
thing, and which hail Men previously decided by persons
fully competent to the decision. The tribunals in the
last resort required great amendment. Cases of appeal
should not be decided by the Chancellor, with the assist-
ance of two Lords, who took the case in rotation, hearing
one day the-proceeding, whilst other Judges heard it the
next ; and thus the case was decided by rotatory Judges,
not one of whom had heard the whole case through.—
There could not be a more able Judge than the Nobleman
who now held the Seals ; but there ought to be associated
with him, in cases of appeal, some persons who understood

the law of Scotland. The unanimous decision of Scotch
Judges was now tried by appeal to the law of England,
which was totally dissimilar. He was determined to bring
this subject before the House by special motion. He was
ready to acknowledge that the Right Hon. Gentleman op-
posite (Mr. Peel) had not oily done good positively, but
by affording support to the law Reforms proposed by
others. Twenty years ago, any gentleman who had pro-
posed such alterations of the Itw as were now effected,
would have been stigmatized as a Jacobin. Until the Right
Hon. Gentleman was in office, the country had heard no-
thing but that the laws of England were the envy and
admiration of t!le world; and yet in all the reform propo-
sitions of the Right Iron. Gentleman he came forward to
show the opprobrium of the law, which, instead of being
the envy, was the ridicule not only of nations, but of all
foreign Jurists, and of all persons capable of judging.—
There could be no better method than bringing justice to
the doors of the people, and lie was disposed to let the
Local Courts take cognizance-of cases to the extent of 1001.
Mr. PEEL only wished to address a few words to the
House upon the main subject. It could not he necessary

for him to say that it was nut his intention to (Her any
impediment to the introduction of the Bill proposed, for he
bad placed on record his concurrence in so much of the
principle and detail of the proposition that it was quite im-
possible for him to dissent from the Bill, though it differed
in some respects from the considerations he had submitted
to the House. But both measures were on the same prin-
ciple; and the main principle of the proposition of the
Hon. and Learne.l Member was one in which he cordially
concurred. The time had arrived when it was desit able to
facilitate the recovery of small debts, and it was desirous
to bring justice in this respect as near as possible to the
homes of the people. Expellees should be lessened, and
he felt no objection to the establishment of L 'cal Courts.
He felt the objections which applied to exclusive jurisuie-
dons, but it would be very easy to establish such Local
Courts, and to steer clear of those which applied to Local
Jurisdictions. Much had been said with reference to the
inexpediency of cheap justice. If by cheap justice they
were to understand bad justice, he acknowledged that
nothing could be a greater evil; but the introduction of
cheap and good justice was not open to the objections by
which cheap justice was sometimes assailed. There
was much less evil in a litigious spirit arising from
cheap justice, than in a total denial of justice for the
purpose of preventing a litigious spirit. It was diffi-
cult to define what was a litigious spirit. The sums
trifling to one man might be important to another, and
he who appealed for the recovery of his wages,
the amount of which might appear to some of little
concern, might feel the loss of his few shillings more
severely than those who legislated might feel the loss of
100/. There was as much reason to facilitate the re-
cover) of a just debt of a few shillings as of 10e1. It was
a grievous injury to the poor, if they could not recover
small sums on account of the expences of the suit; and to
facilitate the recovery of small debts he was decidedly a
friend. He would say, what was worse than a spirit of
litigation? It was that spirit of discontent which was
engendered by being told that the injured had no protec-
tion, and no alternative but an acquiescence in a refusal of
payment. Before the present Bill was introduced, he
begged to refer to the Bill for the Recovery of Small
Dents which he had introduced last Session. Although

his Bill did not go to an equal extent, with the Bill now
proposed to be introduced, yet there was not a single
clause of it that might not be inserted in the Bill of the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman consistently with the prin-
ciples of his speech that evening. He (Mr. Peel) took
no credit for introducing his Bill last Session, for the
merit of introduction was entirely due to the Noble Lord
opposite (Lord Althorp), and it was only bec inse the Bill
could not be brought forward with due advantage by any
but an official Member that the Noble Lord had delivered
over to hint the pleasure of proceeding in the measure.
He would now proceed to a few of the details of his Bill,
to show how far they agreed with those of the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman. In the first place he must beg
to observe that, with reference to the whole measure,
it was a matter of perfect indifference whether the
Bill was carried into effect by constituting anew tribunal
or by improving the old. He must say, that if lie could
improve the existing institution:: sufficiently for all pur-
poses, he would prefer to improve them, and to borrow
from them all the advantages whick were derived from
prescription, and the authority of ancient names and
established habits. If the improvement of the County
Courts would do for the projected purpose, he would
rather improve them than establish anything new, for he
believed that the County Courts were founded upon prin-
ciples well considered, and upon the comprehensive princi-
ples of justice. The names of them were familiar to the
people of this country, and would claim for them a greater
influence than if the House were to establish new tribu-
nals. If, moreover, County Courts were not specially
abolished, they would continue in existence, and there
would be two separate jurisdictions. All his Bill had
proposed to effect was to increase the amount of causes in
the County Courts from 21. to 101. He agreed with tht
Learned and Honourable Member in excluding from the
County Courts all cognizance of cases of freehold. The
County Courts were. held at fixed periods, and he had
otSuentsitsiiiees6n,cia'rncdubumtOstaowtahluees:
aryne
feyecrgiefinee specified
ee
general
a lo tine
mt
the extent
est
which
onfu
differentnumber
d oef
suit
circumstances, there was a great difficulty of introducinp

of all counties, and thetefo.: ad given the Quatiar
Session the power of dividing large counties into different
districts, and of specifying where County Court 4
should be held. The Magistrates of t* e Quarter Sessions
could require the Judges of the County Courts to hell
their SessOns more or less frequently. He had allowe I
parties having cause of action above 107. to waive their
right to the surplus, and to proceed in the County Courts
for the remainder. He had proposed that both plaintVf
and defendant should be examined in open Court, an I
that no appeal should lie on the ground of incompetence.

lle had required the trial by jury, but he doubted musk
the necessity of unanimity, but at this moment he be-
lieved that scarcely in any County Courts could decisions
be otherwise than by unanimity. He had next proposed
that the Court should have the power to order the de-
fendant to pay his debt by instalments, which provided
for cases of necessity. Another provision he had made
was, that in no case should the remedy lie against the per-
son, but that execution against the property should issue
in any county. Nothing could be more simple than the
process by which these provisions were carried into effect.
—(Here the Right Hon. Gentleman read from the draft
of his Bill the wording of the plea. )—The fees of Court
were limited by a table in the appendix, and the debt of
101. could be recovered, so far a. the Court was concerned
for the expense of four or five shillings. The expencen
of witnesses it was impossible to regalate by any such
means. The greatest difficulty had been to deal with
the Courts of exclusive jurisdiction in corporate towns.
He had not abolished these, bat he had given to
the County Courts a concurrent jurisdiction, being
perfectly sure that the cheaper and better process
in the new Courts would induce all persons to resort to
them, and that the Exclusive Courts would die of them-
selves. The greatest remaining difficulty was, who should
he the Judges, for objections had been made to the in-
creased patronage of the Crown. If the residence of the
Judges within their counties were a sine qua XON, the
appointments would be objects of local patronage.—
(Hear, hear.) But if resident, a lower salary would
tempt them to accept office ; and the whole objest might
necessary certainly at th much
that
the lesse x p
et
n 1 icaen
shouldl3 ()al()
to/.
be effected at a smaller sum than had been imagined, and
altogether the:Lt.:4"
Consolidatedthe Judges,
wouldF ttn Fund ;fofromr
athfeui,fde,eos,utthofouwghhitchnotthetaskaieartrilZ
fiti;lt was not
of the Judges would be paid. As to the tenure of the
office, the question was, whether the Judge should be
a local Barrister or not ? If he were a practising Bar-
rilter, his practices in the superior Courts would give
him access to the daily progress of the science, and this
must certainly be esteemed a great advantage. Besides
his residence in that seat of law from which its ramifies.:

tions, as the Honourable and Learned Gentleman had
truly stated, extended to all parts of the empire, Must
also be considered as a circumstance which would cis

tlehiin to greater weight in the Court in which 144

presided, than he could Otherwise hope to possess. He
thought he had now said enough to show that degree of
concurrence in the proposition of the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman, which would naturagy preclude him from attv
other course than that of voting for his Bill. He trusted
be might be allowed to consider himself the associate of
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman in these roforms...-.

Loud cheers)—and he accordingly most eheerfuliY

offered him his assistance; and if his B II was found to ha
such as would enable him (Mr. Peel) to dispense with his
own, he would most heartily rejoice in such a conclusion
of his labours.—(Loud cheering.)
• Lord ALTHORP remarked, that the difficulty attend-.
ing his Hon. and Learned Friend's proposition was peata
liarly this—that a Judge ought always to act in the face
. . . _

of a large and intelliient bar—(Hear, hear,)—for thus
was a pure and correct administration of justice secured
to the suitors in a Court.—( Hear, hear. )-1 he suggestion
of an appeal to the Assizes from the decision of this
Local Judge was different from any he had ever heard,
and he thought it presented many advantages. It was
not an expensive appeal ; it was within the reach of any
of the suitors; and the consciousness that his dscisiou
might ba examined and revised by the dodge of Assize,
was likely to exercise a salutary ;Attest* upon the
Local Magistrate. He was of opinion that this
Judge ought decidedly to be a practised Barrister:
and, he thought, alit the disadvantales which might
result from any diminution of practice, would be
recompensed by the reporting of eases to the su-
perior Courts by which the knowledge of the law, -19
it actually s•ood, would be always kept alive. For these
various reas,ns he trusted the objections offered to his Hon.
and Learned Friend's measure world net be found insur •
mountable. There was another point of the plan which,
in his mind, was of great advantage—namely, the esta-
blishment of Courts of Conciliation, in which the Judgo
was to act as arbitrator_ Front his own experience of the
duties of a Justice of Peace, lie could undertake to Ray
that infinite good might be done by this Judge's delivering
those opinions which might prevent people from prOtteed-

. . .
ing with their quarrels at a great expense. And he thought
that if such a me,sure could be introduced into the Ses-
sion Courts, it would be attended with the greatest advan-
tage..—(Hear, hear.)

-The SOLICITOR-GENERAL acknowledges' that the
evils arising from a variety of practise would be mitigates"
by an appeal to the Superior Courts ; hat in "swat advan-
tages there was the corresponding evil: and here it was
evident the poor suitor would not be able to prosecute his
appeal, and therefore, that the administration of ju.tice
would not be altogether equal. He had already expressed
his opinion against local courts, and he saw so reason
to change it; still he had no objection to these local
courts for the recovery of small debts. But, then, as
under all circumstances the jurisdiction must be local,
and therefore the Judge must be resident. Now this
would at once let them into many difficulties. The Judge
could not be a practising barrister, because, if be attended
to his judicial duties, his practice must dwindle away ;
and if the contrary, his judicial du ties must be neglected.
In the next place, it was to be considered that this officer

would, if he might be allowed the expression, degenerate
from year to year. And as to the appeal to the Judge of
Assize, with whom he was to sit during the hearing, he
thought nothing could be more objectionable, because es-
thing could more strongly tend to lower this local Judge in
his own opinion, or in that of the persons amongst whom
he administered justice. For, suppose that any tin( 4,-
tunate gentleman, acting in this capacity, had fallen into
errors, and that his Hon. and Learned Friend were the
superior Judge to explain to him what the law of the case
was, in what a p:tiable situation would not this local
dignitary be? As to the amount of salary, In was of
opinion it could not be less than 1,500/. a year; for if this
Judge were not a man capable of deciding important cases
he would be utterly useless, and a gentleman of these ca-
pabilities could not be expected to wanders Isis practise for
a small consideration. He next contended, that, a local
Judge was objectionable. because it was impossible that,
from the fact of his residence, and from the habits of so-
ciety he must form, that he Gould escape the charge of par-
tiality, however unjust it might be, when the interests of
()pimping parties happened to be compromised. He also
objected to his acting as arbitrator, because, after having
given parties in this character an advise respecting the
point of law which they were not bound to pursue, in
what situation would he afterwards find himself, when
this very case was brought berore him? Would Its net
be actually a legislating party? Besides, Its never knew a
case in which an arbitrator gave satisfaction, since he
was always rather disposed to cut the knot than to unravel
it. And again, it was to be remembered that he could do
no good unless the parties altogether unlocked their bosoms
to him ; under which circumstances the future Jadge
would know too muck. And lastly it was to be con-
sidered that acting as an arbitrator, was likely to damage
a man's judicial mind. In answer to the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman, who had stated that the adsainis-
tration of justice by the Privy Council was a.moekery, he
observed that the Master of the Rolls atten.ded at the
sittings of this body, and that during the time of Sir
William Grant their decisions had excited the admiration
of the empire. If however, a better system coati be de-
vised for regulating the judicial concerns of the Colonies.
lie had no objection to receive it, but he decidedly objected
to the application of such terms, when they were entirely
undeserved. _ _ .

Mr. FERGUSSON explained—as thought it was a
mockery when men professed to decide according to a lav,
of which they were ignorant.
Mr. O'CONNELL said it was late, but as the subject
was one of vital importance, he trusted he might be sl-
owed to off:•r a few observations to the House.—(Hear,
hear.)—The alterations proposed by the Hon. and Learned
Alember were of undoubted utility. There object was to
bring home justice to the door of every man in the coml.
try. Locality of jurisdiction ought to be Sought for by
every body. The Judges of these local court, ought to
unite the "powers of arbitrators and conciliators with
their judicial authority. In his opinion these Judges
ought not to be practising barristers. The grrat ob.
j!ction to the local Judges in Ireland was, that they
were practising barristers ; and he thought it was nu-
fit that men should be as Judges deciding on times
"ne day, and the next taking fees as advocates. He
thouaht that. was a bad prinsip'e, and ought ea be
avoided. The Right Hon. Gentleman opposite hid
spoken of the necessity of Jedgee residing in the metro
polis, in order to keep up tire knowledge of th, laws. ft
there was any such necessity, it resulted from the want
of a fixed code of laws. From the vnriOlenose of our pre-

lent system of laws, our Judges were like the fashionable
lady, and were obliged to study from day to day
the varying changes of the mode. We had nothing but
Judge-made law, and it was therefore never fixed in
its principles. It was certainly a miserable thing
that law should shift and alter in such a manner ;
hut that it would always do unless we had a code.
It was the glory of
,Bentham that he had been the
first and the constant advocate of a code. The
Honourable and Learned Gentleman had praised Mr.
Bentham ; but even his eloquence failed in con-
veying the praise that was justly due to the great philoso-
pher. Besides, he had only praised Bentham for the ma-
chinery he proposed to carry on the system of the law, and
that was among the least of his great merits ; for no
alteration in the machinery of the laws would cure the
evils now existing, without the making of a code. He
agreed in the propriety of doing away with all objections
to the competency of witnesses, and leaving only those to
their credit ; for objections to competency always prevented
the decision of a case on its merits. What was it but
these technicalities that prevented men of common sense
from conducting their own cases, and compelled them to
apply to those conjurors of the law, who, by a constant
acquaintance with the magic of its forms, were enabled to
get them over its difficulties. To pretend to make law
reform., and not to make a code, was like leaving out the
part of Hamlet "by particular desire." The improve-
ments made in the law by the Right Hon. Gentleman
opposite, were themselves so many parts of a code. His
principles were clear and plain ; and it was only to he
wished that he could persuade his colleagues to bear him
through all the alterations he must find it desirable to make.
Mr. C. WYNN approved of many of the principles
'laid down by the Hon. and Learned Mover, but could
not entirely agree with all his suggestions. Much
had already been done and more might be effected ;
but every thing could not be gained now and at
once. The Right Honourable Gentleman had opened
this career of improvement which he (Mr. C. Wynn)
trusted would he followed until the whole body of
the law was reviewed and all necessary and proper altera-
tions made in it. That was the only method of leeal
reform our institutions would permit. They could not be
changed at once, but must be modified in detail as neces-
sity required. The Hon. and Learned Member for Clare
had complained of what he called the constant alteration
of the Judge..made lair, but no codification could prevent
that. evil ror though the clearest rules might he laid down,
It ',vas impossible to make them applicable to every case
that might arise. Their application must depend too, on
the individuals who administered the law. That was
shewn to be the case in France.

Mr. O'CONNELL said they bad no code in France, it
'was only half n code.
Mr. C. WYNN answered that there was a code, but
that it was impossible to make one to meet every case. He
was opposed to the establishment of local tribunals, for he
feared the operation of partialities and prejudices on the
minds of the Judges who must compose such tribunals ; be-
sides which, the want of emulation would operate power-
fiilly upon them, for whether one of these Judges did well
or ill, as be was not capable of advancement, the system
would not produce any eminent men.
After a few words from Mr. EwART, which were in-
audible in the Gallery,

Mr. BROUGHAM, in reply, said that many of the ob-
servations which had been addressed to the House upon
the difficulties of his plans were entitled to considerable
attention. Many things had been suggested as objections
which he had before considered, and the result had been,
that in some instances he conceived he could propose
amendments which would obviate the difficulties, while in
ethers he admitted he had not satisfied himself that he
had any sufficient remedy, and indeed he feared that he had
but a choice of evils. One difficulty was the residence of
the local Judges. That gravelled him the most of all. At
one time the appointment of the Judges troubled him much.
His difficulty was in vesting so large a patronage in the
hands of the executive government ; but the benefits of the
measure he proposed were so great as to outweigh or over-
balance the disadvantages of such an increase of patronage.
As to the other point, he confessed he had but a choice of
evils. The Judges must reside on the spot, but there were
one or two circumstances that mitigated the effect of the
evils of such a residence. They would not have to decide
on causes arising among the society in which they moved.
They would not have to try the validity of
would net have to decide on great questions between per-
sons whom they met in society ;—they would only decide
on horse causes, petty assaults, and eases of common
slander. The disputes between landlord and tenant would
be under their jurisdiction, and this class of cases would
certainly be an exception. In this respect, as in others,
it might become a choice of evils; but he was not sure
that the benefits of the plan could be at all counterpoised
by its disadvantages.
Leave was then given to bring in the Bill.
Sir G. MURRAY moved for leave to bring in a Bill to
amend the 14th George 111., for establishing a fund
towards further defraying the charges of the administration
of justice, and for the support of the Civil Government of
Quebec.

Mr. LABOUCHERE gave notice that be should oppose
the measure, inasmuch as it rendered the dependence of
the Judges of the Canada' upon the Crown greater than at
present.

Mr. HUME put in his olaim in the next stage, to state
his opinions upon the question at length.
Lord SANDON feared the Bill would tend to introduce
further divisions into the Colonies.

Leave was then given.
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of,
and the House adjourned at a Quarter- past Two.

OF SENENTIC-EIGHT,
11111 RIGHT HON. C. I
OP APRIL.
Acland, Sir Thomas
A I thorp, Viscount
Baring, F.
Baring, W. B.
Thandford, Marquis
Burdett, Sir F.
Bernal, R.
Bourne, Rt. Hon. S.i
Buller, C.
Canning, Sir S.
Cavendish, C.
Cavendish, W.
Clements, Viscount
Cave, R. 0.
Cradock, Col.
Clive, E. B.
Crompton, S.
Calthorpe, Hon. F.
Calthorpe, Hon. A.
Dundas, Hon. T.
Davies, CoL
Denison, J. E.
F.asthope, J.
Ewart, W.
Fazakerley, J. N.
Fo'iry, J. H.
Fyler, T. B.
Grant, R.
Grattan, Henry
Graham, Sir J.
Gordon, R.

1' OF THE MINOR:
MO VOTED FOR THE RE
IRANT RELATING 10 TEI

Heathcote, E.
Hobhouse, J. C
Howick, Lord
Howard, Henry
Huskisson, Rt. Hen.
W.
Inglis, Sir R. H.
Knight, R.
Labouchere, H.
Lamb, Hon. G.
Lascelles, Hon. W.
Langston, J. H.
Lambert, J. S.
Macauley, T. B.
Marshall, W.
Marjoribanks, S.
Morpeth, Viscount
Macdonald, Sir J.
Milton, Viscount
Macintosh, Rt. Hon.

ISOLUTIONS MOVED BY
:RCEIRA, ON THE 28TII

Rumbold, C. E.
Russell, Lord John
Stanley, Lord
Stanley, Hon. E. G.
Sandon, Viscount
Smith, Vernon

IStrutt; J. H.
Tennyson, C.
Thompson, T. B.
Webb, E.
Wilbraham, G.
Warrender, Sir G.
Wall, C. B
Wynn, Sir W. W.
Wynn, Right Hon.C.
Warburton, H
Wood, Alderman

TELLERS.
Grant, Rt. Hon. C.
Phillimore, Dr.

Sir J.
Nugent, Lord
Ord, W. PAIRED OFP.
O'Grady, Col. Carter, J.
Price, Sir R. ' Colborne, N. R.
Pryse, Pryse Davenport, E.
Ponsonby, Hon. G. Ellis, Hon. A.
IPhilips, G. R. Fortescue, Hon. G.
'Pendarves, E. W. Newport, Sir J
Palmerston, Visa. O'Connell, D.
Rice, T. S. Slaney, R. A.

We are glad to learn that the Cigar Divan
lately opened in the Strand has more than answered the
expectations that were formed of its success. It is a place
of elegant recreation, where Chess, Backgammon, the Ma-
gazines of the month, and the Morning and Evening
Papers of the day, invite the lounger's attention—it de-
serves the support it has met with. The furniture and
other decorations of the room are of the most splendid
description; and the Coffee, made under the immediate
direction of a foreigner who understands how to do justice
to that agreeable beverage, is scarcely to be surpassed at
Lny of the more fashionable Clubs in London.

Many of the English nobility are possessors
of Continental titles of great honour. The Duke of 'WEL-
LINGTON is Prince of Waterloo, in the Netherlands. The
Duke of RICHMOND is Duke of Aubigny, in France ; and
the Duchesses of RiciamoNn are, in consequence, allowed
the " Droit du Tabouret" on days of ceremony at the
French Court. The Duke of Haarrt.Tox is Duke of
Chatelherault. The Duke of Alaturioaciuun is a Prince
of the Holy Roman Empire. The Earl of CLARENDON
is a Count in Prussia. The Earls of COWPER and DEN-
BIGH, the Lord ARUNDEL, the families of BELASYSE,
DELAFIELD, Nassau, and FREMA NTLE, are Counts of the
Holy Roman Empire.

The University of Oxford contains a total of
5,259 members; Cambridge, 5,263.

Amongst the various new machiues of dc-
struction that are to be tried by the French expedition t'
Algiers is a singular invention of a Captain of Engineers
at Metz, consisting of a *ask of a particular construction,
which, when filled with 20001 h. weight, is thrown like a
bomb. This projectile, or portable mine, in the shape of
a well, falls at a distance of 250 metres, and breaks by
the effect of the fall, the fuse burning all the while. Se-
veral experiments have been already made, in the most
satisfactory manner.

A greyhound bitch, of a pure white colour,
now three years old, which was bred in the Deer Park, on
the Cave Hill, and is the property of the Marquis of Do-
lIIGAL, on the 14th inst. brought forth a litter of nine
pups, all jet black. What makes this occurrence the more
remarkable is, that in May last the same bitch had 13
papa at a birth, which were all, without exception, jet
black.--.llelfast News Letter. §

LONDON,
FRIDAY EVENING, APRIL 30, 1830.

HIS MAJESTY'S HEALTH.

The following is the Bulletin issued this

morning :

" Windsor Castle, April SO.
" The KING had several hours of refreshing sleep last

_
night.
His MAJESTY'S symptoms appear to be somewhat al•

leviated.

(Signed) " HENRY HALFORD.
" MATTHEW J. TIERNEY."

Prince LEOPOLD and a long list of the No-
bility called at the Palace to see the Bulletin

this morning.

A Cabinet Council was held at the Foreign
Office at Three o'Clock this Afternoon.

Prince LEOPOLD has arrived this morning in
town from Paris.

The Russian fleet from the Mediterranean
has arrived in the English Channel, on its return
from Cronstadt ; how many ships compose it
we have not yet learnt, but wg understand that
English pilots were put on board two Russian
Admirals' ships to the westward of Land's-end.
As the fleet has orders not to put into Spithead,
except in case of necessity, it is possible that
by to-morrow we may hear of its having passed
the Straits of Dover, unless the prevalence of
the easterly winds prevent it.

The Paris Papers of Wednesday assert that
Prince LEOPOLD has refused the throne of
Greece. We doubt this ; but if he has we shall
of course soon know it officially. The following
are extracts :

(From Galignani's Messenger Of Wednesday.)
The Temps of this morning says :—" Prince Leopold of Saxe
Coburg has left Paris, where he was expected to remain at least
ten days longer. We are extremely sorry to say he has left us
with a determination to refuse the Throne of Greece. We can-
not venture to assert that the causes which have led to this re-
solution are irremoveable, but we give them from a source upon
which we have every reason to place the utmost reliance. Since
his arrival in Paris, the Prince has sought out men best ac-
quainted with the country he was called upon to govern, and
which he himself visited about fifteen years ago. From the
mass of information he collected, he was led to conclude, that
in order to consolidate the freedom and independence of Greece,
he must find means of arriving, without internal dissensions,
at the period when the rising generation, which has not been
cankered by Ottoman despotism, could take part in public
affairs ; that the establishment of order was one of the greatest
wants of the nation, and consequently that the Government
should be powerful, and become a source of benefits to the
people, and not a burthen to them. The Prince calculated that
Greece would not become capable of providing for her own sup-
port in less than ten years, and consequently he required from
the mediating Powers the guarantee of a loan of sixty millions;
they, however, are not disposed to go beyond the moiety of that
sum ; and the Prince being unwilling to accept an undertaking
he could not hope to accomplish, has decided upon refusing it.
We frankly confess our regret at this determination ; for,
though we still feel a painful sensation on seeing an Eng-
lish Prince reap the fruits of a French expedition, we have now
the certainty that Prince Leopold possesses a mind equal to the
high destinies he had accepted. He would have become a
genuine Prince of Greece, leaving behind him all recollection of
his former relations with the rest of Europe, except in such re-
spects as he might tura them to the advantage of his new
country."
The National of this morning has the following :—t. Prince
Leopold has set out for London. His stay at Paris has not ad-
vanced the affairs of Greece; on the contrary, it would appear,
chat a new protocol is on the eve of being opened in London.
The steps taken by the Prince de Polignac, Lord Stuart de
Rothesay, and 51. Pozzo di Borgo, to induce the Prince to set
out for Greece immediately, have been without effect. Evasive
answers, demands of troops, and of more extended boundaries,
have been put forth under various forms by his Royal Highness.
Only the day before yesterday the Prince de Polignac offered him
by a Marshal of France, 20,000,000 francs in cash, to be immedi-
ately embarked with him, but in vain. It appears that Prince
Leopold will not easily give up his brilliant position in the world
1 for a precarious future. Uncle of the future Queen of England,
possessor of an income of 50,000/., proprietor of the beautiful
estate of Claremont, at liberty to enjoy either at Paris or else-
where the charms of the highest independence, he is in a situation
which requires great self-denial to exchange it for that of reign-
ing over an unhappy country like Greece, where every thing is
to be created anew, because every thing has been destroyed.
This is a kind of ambition to which the Prince is a stranger both
by habit and character. Whether the Duke of Wellington,
obliged to fulfil his promises, and to lay before Parliament the
documents relative to the affairs of Greece, will prevail upon
him, is a question yet to be solved. It must be confessed, how-
ever, that the Duke of Wellington, whilst he imagined he should
serve the interests of England, has not been fortunate in the
choice of a Greek Sovereign. The Prince de Polignac only
followed this scheme in a servile manner. Russia has remained
passive in the grand question ; for she was aware that the jealousy
of England would not permit her to have a preponderating voice
in it, she therefore submitted to the choice of France and Eng-
land, whatever it might be. We do not speak from rumours
prevalent in the higher circles, but from real facts and positive
data."
Letters from Tiflis, dated March 27, announce, that the Rus-
sian troops, which occupy Erzerum, are actively employed in
fortifying that place. Vessels laden with materials cover the
Euphrates. This intelligence having reached the British Am-
bassador at Constantinople, his Excellency hastened to inform
the Reis Effendi of it. It is stated that the Ambassador en-
quired whether the report which circulated among the diplo-
matic body at Pere was true, that Halil Pacha had been autho-
rised to propose to the Russian Cabinet the cession of Erzerum
in consideration of a large reduction in the war contribution. It
will be remembered that the negotiations, began four months
ago, when Count Orloff was at Constantinople, the object of
which was to cede to Russia the city of Kars, in Asia, com-
pletely failed, and that its failure was attributed to the British
Ambassador.
Extract of a private letter of the 15th inst. from Madrid :
'. It seems positive that the Decree which ordains the total dis.
bandment of the corps of Royalist Volunteers is drawn up.—
Many causes have led to this decision, though strong political
motives oppose the publication of these causes, and hence the
Government content themselves with declaring that the ninety-
two millions of rials, expended annually in the maintenance of
this armed force, are wanted for more urgent purposes. Their
dissolution will be fatal to the Apostolical party, since it de-
prives them of the only strength they had to realise their
daring and ferocious plans. Immediately after the arrival
of the courier that brought intelligence of the conspiracy
discovered at the Havannah, several arrests took place
both at Cadiz and Carthagena, and others have been
since made. Letters from each of these towns state,
that the greater part of the persons imprisoned belong
to the sea service. The state of affairs at the Havannah
seems to have caused our Government to view the question re.
lative to our former colonies in a light entirely new. To the
vain boastings of Calomarde, respecting the re-conquest of them,
have succeeded juster sentiments, and a proposition for the ac-
knowledgment of their independence has been heard without
horror in the palace of the King of Spain.' I am not prepared
ttisa y that this has been the result of representations of any
~_Foreign Ambassador, but it is a fact, that the documents of the
"rvvermwent offices have been searched for all the projects which

at various periods have been suggested for the accomplishment
of this measure. Among the many draughts that have been
formed, the following appears to have had the greatest number
of advocates

"With the consent of France, through the mediation and
under the guarantee of Itngland, independence Shall be offered
to all the States of the Continent of Spanish America, upon the
following condition :-Ist. A sum of 300 millions of double..
piestres (or upwards of 6,000,0001. sterling) shall be paid to Spain
by ten equal yearly instalments from the States to be acknow-
, ledged. 2d. That the new States shall pay the whole of the debt
due in those countries from the Government of Olc Spain, at pe-
riods, and in a manner hereafter to be settled. 3d. That indemni.
ties shall be guaranteed to sbfh Royalists as shall have had their
properties Confiscated—the amount of these indemnities shall be
fixed at 20 millions for each State. These sums shall be distri-
buted to the claimants by a Commission composed of Spaniards,
Creoles, and Englishmen. 4th. All ships of war captured on both
sides shall be restored, particularly the Asia, treasonably given
up in violation of the treaty of Ayacucho sth. There shall be
a mutual and entire general amnesty—no one shall be perse-
cuted for past actions or opinions. 6th. Spanish produce im-
ported in Spanish bottoms shall be admitted into the Indepen
dent states duty free, and in like manner the produce of the new
states shall cnjey a similar exemption in all the ports of the
Peninsula. 7th. The two Governments will come to an under-
standing as to prohibited articles, as well as upon the nomination
of diplomatic agents, and upon the rights to be enjoyed by indi-
vidual subjects of each power residing in the territories of the
other. flth. Spain reserves to herself the Islands of Chiloe and
Maluines in full sovereignty. 9th. The Mediators will guarantee
to Spain her present possessions in Asia and the Antilles. Per-
haps it might be better to treat separately with each state; but
the august Mediators will no doubt prefer taking up the question
as a whole. The measure may be preceded by a general truce of
three or four years, during which the general bases for a general
reconciliation having been laid, communications will be re-esta-
blished, and then the details will be settled with all possible ac-
tivity. This arrangement completed, the affair of Saint Domingo
may be taken up, and an indemnity obtained in proportion to
that granted to France, and if specie be wanting, an equivalent
may be substituted, by granting mercantile privileges to the pro-
duce of Spain."
A report prevails among our merchants, that the Dutch have
declined entering into the operations lately proposed to them by
our financiers, and consequently their hopes from this source are
disappointed. It is also said that new combinations will shortly
be formed with regard to the Cortes Loan, by means of which
that paper will be raised in price, while the other Spanish Funds
will fall. Whether these rumours are well founded or not, it is
clear that our internal debt loses ground daily, without any ap-
parent cause for the want of confidence in it. No business what-
ever is doing in our money market, and the prices quoted may
with the most perfect truth be called nominal. Those on 'Change
are, Vales Consols 441—Non-Consols 12—Interest of the Vales,
5 to 51,4—Bank Actions, 18,4 P. F."
A letter from Rome announces that "the Pope is in such a
weak state of health that his life is considered In great danger.
This circumstance has been carefully concealed from the public;
but on Easter Day, when his Holiness pronounced his benedic-
tion on the people, it was observed that his hand was supported
by one of the Cardinals."
We extract the following from the Journal au Havre of Mon,
day Letters from Bourbon have been received at Nantes,
stating, in positive terms, that the expedition from that island to
Madagascar has met with a severe check, and has been driven
! back to their boats in confusion. If this account be true, what
are we to think of pompous reports in the Moniteur of our suc-
cesses in the same quarter? Is it of a new attack that these let-
ters received at Nantes speak ? The Journals of the Isle of
France of the 3d of January, it is true, give us details which,
if not highly satisfactory, are by no means alarming; but these
Journals are subject to so strict a censorship, that they by no
means give us confidence. We therefore apprehend that the
truth will be found in these letters, which are dated as late as the
18th of January, fifteen days after the appearance of the official
accounts in the Journals of Bourbon."
The following intelligence from Toulon is of the 22d inst.:—
" All the vessels that were fitting out in our harbour are now in.
the roads. The arsenal is entirely deserted. All the dockyards
are perfectly inactive, as the workmen who were employed about
the ships that had not completed their equipment, are obliged to
go and finish their work in the Roadstead. There is but one
part of our immense arsenal where activity still prevails, namely,
the quay where the bureaus are situated. Here are lying 30,000
cannon-balls, 10,00 bomb-shells, 15,300 howitzer-shells, 65 gun_
carriages of all sizes, as many piles of balls, about 150 barrels of
coal., and an abundence of other materiel, which are to be cm_
barked on board the vessels expected from Brest, L'Orient and
Rochefort."
The vessel Nancy just arrived at'Bordeaux from Calcutta, has
brought intelligence of the mercantile house of Palmer and Co.
having suspended their payments in consequence of a pressing
demand of four millions. Their debts amount, it is said, to
eighty or one hundred millions. The failure is attributed to
considerable losses arising out of advances made for the culture
of Indigo. This event has created great panic in the Calcutta
market.

FRENCH Fly:sm.—Palm, APRIL 17.—Five per Cents., 105 f.
90c. 106 f. 105 f. 95c. 106 f. 106 f. sc. ; Four and a-half per Cents.,
105 f. 4Cc. ; Four per Cents., 101 f. 40e. ; Three per Cents., 83f.
85c. 90c. 85c. VOc. ; Bank Stock, 1,910 f. ; Rentes de Naples, 91E
93f. 80c. 85c.; Rentes d'Espagne, 18 184 %; Royal Spanish
Loan, 91 914 %4 %; Rentes Perpetuelles d'Espagne, 834
x% 4 ; Haytian Loan, 535 f. 5311 f. 512 f. 50c.—Exchange
on London—One month, paper, 2if. 63c.; three months, paper,
25f. 45c.—Ceurs Authestique.

The following are extracts from German Pa
pers received this morning:—

DRESDEN, APRIL 17.—The interest felt by the public in the
affairs of a Prince of the German Confederation has lately been
very much enhanced, since it is well known that his Majesty
our Sovereign has addressed to him an admonitory and truly
paternal letter, in order if possible to bring about an amicable
arrangement. The time fixed will expire in a few dais.
The Diet of the Confederation has not, indeed, yet ordered a
corps of the Saxon army to be put in motion, but great activity
is observed in the war department, and:the regiments are already
known which are to be assembled in the neighbourhood of
Lelpsic, and will amount to five or six thousand men. These
regiments are recalling all the men absent on furlough from the
most distant parts of the country, and every thing indicates that
they will he able to march as soon as orders are given to that
effect. Well informed persons, however, still hope that an
actual military occupation will not take place, but that
in all probability the mere demonstration of such a
measure will produce the concession desired. How much
it is to be wished that even this might not be necessary
as a country with which we are properly on terms of friend-
ship, would thereby be spared considerable expence. There is
reason to suppose that the labours, of our Diet may be deprived
for a considerable period, in order, it is said, to have the neces-
sary time for important measures.
VIENNA, APRIL 18 —Lord Cowley, English Ambassador at the
Imperial Court, will go in a few days to Frankfort to meet his
lady, who is expected there from London.
An Austrian Courier has arrived from Cadiz with the Treaty
concluded between the Imperial Court and Moscow.
VIENNA, APRIL 19.—Metalliques 103 ; Four per Cents. 983.16;
Bank Shares 1,375. .

ANCONA, Arxrt 15.—Preparations are already making in
Greece for the recew ion of the Prince of Coburg, who will ar-
rive about the beginning of June, and fix his residence at
Athens. The Turks are now evacuating Negropont, and it is
said the troops will be conveyed to Candia to strengthen the
garrison in that island.
We hear from Alexandria that the Pacha continues his mi.
litary preparations, and, according to report, will second the
French expedition against Algiers by a diversion on the African
coast. There are French agents at Cairo, who will probably re-
main with Mehemet Ali till the commencement of hostilities,
and afterwards join the army. The offers made to the
Pacha for his co-operation in the war with Algiers are said to
be very tempting. Besides large subsidies in money and corn.
mercial advantages France is reported to have promised him,
after the expulsion of the Dey, a great part of the Algenne terri-
tory, as his own property in his family. The Porte, however,
seems to be by no means satisfied with this arrangement, and
to have sent an agent to Algiers to persuade the Bey to yield to
the demands of France. Considerable mercantile houses in this
city have letters from Corfu, in which it is affirmed that the
Sultan had again sent a Commission to Cairo to require from the
Pacha an account of his government of the country. It is
remembered that in August last year a commissioner was
sent by the Porte to Egypt for the same purpose who
suddenly died at Cairo. Mehtmed Ali has once before
expressed his intention to assist in the present expedition
against Algiers, and thereby excited the distrust of the Porte,
which is increased now that that state is ready to be attacked.
'1 he landing of another Turkish Commissioner seems to prove this
and the modeof his acceptance at Cairo may tend to throw some
light on the probable time, whether near or remote, when the
Pacha of Egypt thinks to declare himself wholly independent of
the supreme authority of the Porte.

Extract of a letter from Port-au-Prince, dated
March 6:—
'~
The United States sloop-of-war Erie, 24 guns, has been here
from Cuba. She reports the Spanish fleet as laying peaceably off
the Island, and about the Havannah, without the appearance of
any hostile intentions towards this place; the Haytians through-
out the island are seriously preparing, however, to resist any at.
tack, although the leading men unreservedly say these are merely
precautionary measures without any belief in such movements
by Spain."

At the close of his long and able speech, last
night, on the subject of Law Reforms, Mr.
BROUGHAM made one remark which will give
sincere satisfaction to all those who, like us, are
warm admirers of this great man. In the most
pointed—the most decided—the most u nequivo -
cal manner he asserted that he had refused the
highest judicial situation in the kingdom, at the
very time when he was accused of truckling for
place and preferment ! We do hope that after
this unanswerable statement we shall hear no
more of those interested slanders, which from
time to time, for months past, have been levelled
with the most assiduous malignity at Mr.
BROUGHAM. If there be one man to whom
beyond all others his country is indebted for the
present advanced state of its intellect, the Hon.
and Learned Member for Knaresborough is that
man. He has sown the seeds of knowledge
throughout every city, town, and hamlet in the
kingdom ; has taught the community the vast
moral power they possess in the exercise of in-
tellect; and has done more within the small com-
pass of twelve or fourteen years to advance the
best interests of England, than all its warriors,
from the days of MARLBOROUGH down to those
of WELLINGTON, put together. In a word, lie
has anticipated the march of mental freedom by
at least half a century. The fame of such a man
is not to be assailed with impunity. It is not to
be left to the mercy of the dull or the envious,
the bigotted or the uncharitable. It is a theme
for future historians, who will recognise in the
age
comprehensive
the strong impress of Mr.
mind. The fol-
BROUGHAM'S in which he