The Sun.
London, England, 1839-07-26 00:00:00

EVENING EDITION.

bility, and there were banks of unlimited liability. The and effecting the exchanges and the circulat ng
facts with regard to Scotland were that nearly one hun- medium, had taker; up the point which had been so. much
dred years ago three chartered banks were established. They handled by the Hon. Member for the Tower Lamlets,
conducted their business for many years without rivals, the free trade in banking. Why there was free trade in
and when other banks were established they were banking now, in England, outside the 'limits of the
obliged to conform to those principles. The system had Bank Charter, and so in Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) There
had grown up, it was an exception to all rules, and was was the magic circle in Ireland of fifty miles round
not a safe instance to act upon ; and be was somewhat Dublin ; in the curious case of Newry, that circle cut
sceptical as to the advantages to be attributed to it. off one-third of the town,—if a person went beyond
Though it generally maintained the solvency of the banks. the bridge, he found free trade in banking : while,
it was stringent on the community, and though they did by repassing the bridge, he came under the mono-
not break, they were the cause of breaking amongst poly again. Could absurdity be greater?—( Hear, hear.)
their clients. With the single instance of Scotland, Could anything be more outrageous to Ireland than that
which might be adduced in defence of any system, all the Chancellor of the Exchequer should put his proposi-
other experience was against him, and the reason was tion on so ludicrous a groued?—( Hear, heats) The
apparent. Where there were many banks issuing in corn- Right Hon. Gentleman knew that this question world be
petition, there would be a natural desire to over issue, decided by a few. Let the people of Ireland knew
from the desire to give more accommodation, and in time that during this most important debate, the number of Meal•
of prosperity to gain business. His Hon. Friend said hers in the House varied from twenty to twenty.e:ght, and
there was no instance but Scotland. It was remarkable that 32—no, not so many, for one or two were asleep—( A
he should have overlooked that country where, of all laugh)—and others talking, so that not more than 14 or
others, the system of free trade had flourished for the 15 sometimes were really listening to the arguments
longest term—.the United States of America.—(" Hear, ( Hear, hear.) But this was the fault of the Chancellor of
hear," from the Chancellor of the Exchequer.) His Hon. the Exchequer, in bringing the subject forward at a period
Friend relied on the joint-stock principle. There was no of the Session when he knew lie could not reasonably ex-
other principle in America—there were no private banks pect Members to attend—( Hear, hear)—when nine-tenths
whatever. Their system was one incomparably better of the Irish Members, and the English Members too, were
than ours, with the exception of paper money ; and with gone—( Hear, hear)—and when, by late events as to the
sonic few alterations it was worthy of adoption here, se far currency, the price of money had greatly increased, so that
as banking was concerned. The sa stem of Joint-stock the B
ink of Ireland mill make an infinitely better bargain
banking in America extended over the Union. with the now than they could at the opening of the Session.—
exception of one private bank. The batiks of America ( Hear, hear.) What should have induced the Right ;don.were superior—they were better ordered, better regulated Gentleman to fall in love with the Bark of Ireland, he
—comprehended more of the intelligence, wealth, and re- ( Mr. O'Connell) knew not ; but certain it was that the
spectability of the country, in proportion to its population, Right lion. Gentleman had s
and how was it that
than the banks of England, and it afforded an instance that the Government, who were now' hurrying the mea-
to no banks, either private or joint stock, could the sole sure with such rapidity, should have allowed the_.
controul of the issue of paper money be safely entrusted. Bank of Ireland for so many yeere, to receive 23,000/
_( Hear, hear.) The history of banking in that country was per annum more interest on the money jot to the public
short, but it was pregnant with instruction. The misfor. than they could have procured in the
mare...'.'t ? —(Hear,
tunes of the American banks immediately after the war in bear)--allowing the Brink of Ireland to receive 4t:. 7'. 61 1814 would be recollected, and that all the banks except when he could have got it in the market for 3
i- tier ct:t• •.,
that of Massachusetts stopped payment, and they were for —( Hear, hear.) Now, as to the Scottish banks; /he
many months in a state of the greatest uncertainty as to Right Hon. Gentleman had said something extraordinary
the value of the paper currency, some being at ten per on that head : he had said that banking was the
cent. discount, some at twenty, and some at thirty. In result of property, not the mode of making it.
1816 the pressure of these evils led to the este- Why, if banking were good for anything, it must be as a
hlisliment of the United Stites Bank hating a charter stimulus to productiveness, c:eatiee, thereby, additional
for twenty years, and a capital of thirty-five millions of . wealth. —(llear. ) Then the Right Hon Gentleman said
dollars, and without being a Government establishment, we could not compare the banks in Ireland with those in
it was one so far that they were the bankers of the public, Scotland ; but he had not said why—except, forsooth,
the central Government becoming shareholders to the that the Scotch banks had capital in the funds to
amount of 7.000,000 dollars—one-filth of the capital. It the enormous amount of 9,000,0001. A large sum,
was allowed by all the best authorities on American finance truly—but look at the Irish banks, and their large
that that b ink had been mainly instrumental in restoring a paid up capitals.—( Hear, hear.) He (Mr. O'Connell)
sound currency in America. In 1820 there were 304 would venture to assert that, on a comparison, it would be
banks in the United States. In 1830 there were 320 found that there were greater capials in the Irish banks
banks having a circulation of 61,000,000 dollars. Very I than the Scotch, in proportion to the number. But sup-
shortly after 1830 there began that quarrel between the pose he was wrong in that, what were the Scottish banks, President of the United States and General Jackson, but the result of a hundred years of successful trading?
which had been followed up by Mr. Van Buren and the Look at the comparative states of Ireland and Scot-
Bank of the United States, which had assumed a political land. Scotland was what Ireland is now, when the
character, and ended in the refusal of the Government to banking system commenced. Scotland had now become '
renew the charter of the Bank. They demanded to be one of the most agricultural, and, generally, one
repaid their portion of the capital ; they took away the Go- of the most improved countries in the world,
vernment deposits, and distributed them among a number considering her soil and climate. Ireland, with soil and
of the State Batiks. It was clear between 1830 and 1834 climate infinitely superior, was the poorest in the world.
that the charter would not he renewed. Now what was Scotland had enjoyed the free banking system during; the
the number of banks in 1834? The number had increased entire period. Ireland had been under the monopoly :
to 506, having a circulation of 94,000,0001, being an in • in the former case there hid been prosperity—distress and
crease of 50 per cent. upon the four preceding years. In misery in the other.--( Hear, hear.) Shall the Chan-
-1836 the number had increased to 567, with a circulation of cellor of the Exchequer say then, that there was no
140,000,000/, and in 1837 they had increased to 677 with comparison between the two counties? There is no
a circulation of 185,000,0001. Now here was free trade comparison, because the remedy had riot been
in its best form, under which his Hon Friend said it tried in Ireland as it had been in Scotland,
would be impossible there should be any excess. But his whete it had succeeded well.—( Hear, hear.) Facts should
Hon. Friend relied on the power of exchanging notes into be considered on this point. Outside the circle of the
specie. What was the tact in America ? There was Bank of England, the Joint-stock Banks had been per.
this penalty, that when they declined on demand to nay in nutted, and had answered admirably, said the Chancellor
specie, the holder of a note might recover twenty.four per of the Exchequer. Whet was there in that circle to
cent. interest on the amount of it. The Government had make the difference? Was there magic in the line, that
taken great pains to afford security, but the result had there should be prudence and prosperity on one side of it,
been that, from 1834 to 1837, there was an increase of 95 ruin and recklessness on the other? Where was tiro con •
per cent. Where was the check during that period of mon sense of the distinction ? ( H,ar.) Would the
three years ? It was, that at that time every bank in the Chancellor of the Exchequer say that in Scotland, from
United States stopped payment.—( Hear.) Now, from the first institution of the Banks, they had always been able
1834 to 1837, what was the increase in the currency in the to resist danger ? If he did, he would show himself quite
country, subject to the wretched monopoly of the Bank ignorant of the history of banking in Scotland, for when
of England. In the beginning of 1836 the issue of' the it first began, the bankers put on their notes "payable at
Bank of England was 17,000,000/. and of private and sight, or within six months after"--at the option of the
Joint-stock Banks 10,000,000/ , making a total of bankers—it was not done now, their credit having
27,000,000/. In 1837 the issues of the Bank of England been by long trial established ; but at starting they
amouuted to 18,000,000/ , and of the Joint-stock Banks had thus preserved a security which the Irish
12,000,000/., together 30,000 000/., being an increase of bankers needed not. The instance, then, of the Scotch
twelve per cent. While under the American system there Banks was one which the Chancellor of the Exchequer
had been an advance of 95 per cent., and every bank would find it impossible to trample upon, or sneer down—
stopped payment, under our system the increase had been it was one of great success and prosperity.--( Hear, hear.)
only 12 per cent. One system Was incomparably safer as Now in Ireland it was most necessary to attract capital by
illustrated by that country, which alone could furnish a means of the Joint-stock Banks, for there was a per-
perfect illustration. —( Hear, hear.) He contended petual drain, by absenteeism, of nine-tenths of the re-
that such were the inevitable results of free trade in venue.—( Hear, hear.) The capital of the farmers
paper. If it were not redeemable in specie, it would have accumulated largely, but fur this drain,
must depreciate very largely in value, as was which dissipated it as fast as it was raised,—( Hear, hear,)
the case in England during the restriction of the Bank —and the fostering system of the joint stuck plan was,
Charter, and as it had been the case in Russia, and other therefore, especially required.—( Hear, hear.) The
despotic countries, where it fell to one-third.—(Hear, Chancellor of the Exchequer had said, fursooth, that the
hear.) His Hon. Friend had alluded to France, and Bank of Ireland was not a monopoly, but an exclusive
said that since 1791 there had been no occasion for the privilege ! This would not do for the shrewd Irish people.
legislature to interfere. But. France presented a remark- What was a monoply, but an exclusive privilege ?—( Hear,
able contrast to this country. The amount of specie in and a laugh.) Let the Right Hon. Gentleman declare
circulation there was 85,000,000/., whilst the amount of boldly that he wanted a monopoly, for that was the
bank notes was only 12 000,000/. truth, and display it in all its naked deformity.--(Hear.)
Mr. Alderman THOMPSON—Sterling ? Now he (Mr. O'Connell) declared that there was no reason
Mr. CLAY—Yes. No wonder that theirs was a why the Bank of Ireland should have these exclusive pri-
sound system, and that whilst this country and America vileges—that there was no contract for it, unless it was
had experienced great commercial distress, France had renewed—(llear, hear)—that, on the contrary, there were
hardly had any disturbance in her monetary system, not pledges which would be violated by renewing the Charter
even when her soil was occupied by the Ailied army. —that when the Hibernian Bank was about to be established,
There was ene other observation worthy of notice. His several persons waited on Mr. Huskiason and Lord Ripon
Hon. Friend had asked whether the Bank of Ireland could (then Mr. Robinson) and were told that the Bank Charter
not be repaid their capital, and thus enabled to give larger would not be renewed, and that on this distinet pledge
accommodation and snore discount'_? This was a misap- the sum of 225,000/. was subscribed for the enterprise—
prehension of the real principle of banking, which this was on the evidence of Mr. Callagban--and when
did not consist is lending one's own money, parties waited on the now Chancellor of the Exchequer
but the money of other people; banking was last year, be said he would not pledge himself, but asked
in short, the collecting and . re-distributing of money--a if they would be satisfied with the Bank privileges being
deposit, where surplus capital met interests that had no confined within a circuit of ten or fifteen miles round
capital.—( Hear, hear.) His Hon. Friend's notions on the Dublin, and they replied that they would, the im. subject were founded on an entirely false principle.— pression being universally entertained that such was
( Hear, hear.) He agreed with his Hon. Friend as to the the Right Honourable Gentleman's opinion. This
beneficial effect of a free trade in banking, but that had was the reason why not many petitions bad been presented
no relation to the present question. He would have the against the plan, seeing that nobody dreamt of it; in-
business of banking as free as air, and was glad that the deed merchants in Dublin were afraid to oppose it, feeling
Chancellor of the Exchequer had proposed to remove that they were delivered over into the jaws of the Bank.—
many
of the restrictions under which it now laboured in but he (Mr. O'Connell) bad received hundreds of letters
Ireland. But he did not think it would be right to re- conjuring him to do his duty in opposing this Bill
move the restrictions upon what was in fact the creating —which, with the blessing of God, he would
of money.--.( Hear, hear.) His Hon. Friend had denied The Chancellor of the Exchequer had kept the House,
that his principles of free trade in banking would extend in his able speech, upwards of half an hour reading '
to the coining of money, But in fact many reasons miglat evidence. Now, he was not then relying upon the evi-
be given a priori why it would be safer to allow free dente of Mr. Callaghan ; certainly not. But then the
trade in coining money than in issuing notes—( Hear)— Right Hon. Gentleman had adverted to Mr. Pym, upon
for it was much easier to ascertain the goodness of a piece whom lie relied; why that Gentleman in the evidence be
of gold, than the value of a bank note.—( Hear, hear, had given before the Committee, had completely put hear.) Again, there was more difficultly in the an end to all the arguments he had raised. The Chancel-
,
way of issuing sovereigns in excess, than notes.—( Hear.) for of the Exchequer had sneered at Mr. Callaghan for his
He begged to apoligise for addressing the House at such folly, in not understanding banking, it was not his (Mr.
length.—(Cheers.) He should support the motion of O'Connell's) procession, but he thought bias a much bet-
the Chancellor of the Exchequer, because he thought it' ter banker than the Chancellor of the Exchequer.—
wise not to allow in Ireland a free competition in issuing ( Hear, hear.) This Bank of !relent(' was praised to the
notes by all the' banks, without a check from some cen- skies, and the Chancellor of the Exchequer had put his '
tral, strong, controlling bank.--( Hear, hear.) Because whole case upon the fact of its gisieg Accommodation in
also, he thought it wise that, as the Right Hon. Gentle- 1836. Who was it, he would ask, that brought
man had urovided that the exclusive privileges of the about the run that had taken place in that
Irish Bank should determine at the same period as those year ? Why, the Bank of Ireland !—( Hear, hear.)
of the Bank of England, and thus afford to Parliament What course did it adopt to bring that about? Why,
the opportunity of placing the whole currency of the the Bank of England was discounting at that period at 44
country on a safe foundation, if the wisdom of Parliament per cent., and the Bank of Ireland set about discounting
should be enabled so to do,—( Cries of " Hear, bear, at 34• per cent. Was there a surer method of their gold
hear.") He hoped that the time would then have being called for?—( Hear.) The merchants of Liverpool
arrived when the public mind should have taken a more finding that they could get. their bills discounted in Dublin
correct direction on this subject, ceasing to hold the idle at I per cent. less than they could in England,
theories of national prosperity created by the. issuing of sent them to Dublin, and brought over the sovereigns
paper, worthless in itself—(Hear, hear)--seeing that to this country. Such was the conduct of the men who were
there was not one blade of grass that would be made to to rule the monetary system in Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) As
grow, or one ship to go to sea, by the issuing of such another instance of the course they pursued, according to the
evidence of Mr. Callaghan, on one occasion, good bills were
people thernse ves—( Hear, hear)—and that thou h the is-
se
notes, and not upon the industry and intelligence of the
sent to them from Belfast, which had only a short time to run,
l
suing ul, notes might produce apparent strength at first, and what had they d.,ne ? They kept them for twenty-fours,and
then refused to discount them. What was more cal
were it must produce weakness in the end.—( Hear, hear.) And
increase the panic that th n existed ? and yet these were the
he would venture to observe, that it was most desirable that
Members should pay careful attention to the nature men to whose tender mercies they were to consign the fate and
of the subject, and not be swayed by private interests ;
mfoartuuynaestoiruf
ethhear
ioeplereogfrlertteland.—(Hear, hear.) Many and
ed the fatal union betweenan ethedtweno
for himself he was utterly unconnected with any banking countries, but he had never felt its, weighttmorrneotsht
melancholyhdi
interests, and could not avoid observing that the agitation the present eveni,ig.—( Hear. ) lirsatsi
()int not
ato be decided at so
against the Government plan proceeded from bankers, or thing fir Ireland that thisen vital
d ingsuott'h in a House ? The Chancellor
parties interested. No one appeared to think of the pub- late a period of the . s .
lie, or reflect how prices were forced up by the inordinate of the
withstood Exchequer
thel.a talkedaedspinn ic,aandgreat
haddeal oa fdt the eßank
pamphlet o f
.n Irelandthat
issue of paper. and afterwards depressed by the necessary having .
subject full of sounding assertions—perhaps paid for out of the
reaction.--( Hear, hear.) Ile should certainly oppose the
monopolyj that he was now opposing.—(Hear, hear.) One
proposition of his Hon. Friend the Member for Kilkenny.
—( Loud cries of " Hear," from all sides of the Hause ) th paragraph in that pamphlet was, that in the year 1798,
and r
re-+i
Mr. O'CONNELL said he was sorry so excellent a e rebellion, the Bank of Ireland sustained its credit
mained unshaken. Why in that year the Bank of Ireland had
a speech as that which had just been delivered should have done nothing but change one promise for another.
of coin,
butdid
been utterly inapplicable to the present question, for not meet any of their promises in a single sixpence
;lartoinrio se
there was no question about free banking ; the real theygade theirown promises, and nodouhltw
did good was it not
question raised by the Chancellor of the Exchequer was, to the end of time. Now, if
rtohbi!emctoinnoptoh/ neighbourhood that
hms
et
raaetnl
manufacturers
cut
whether a particular bank in Ireland should be permitted most likely to effect
dsetachitai t
7 If this monopoly had been bene-
the unlimited privilege of issuing notes in a certain district. immediately surrounded
haveHe made Dublin prosperous ?—( II ear, hear. ) '
The Hon. Member said he would not allow any bank the fililtaiadl rintudsotuneotsoi
so?
Duraebrslinin
unlimited power of circulation. Yet he was going
to vote for that power being given to one bank : that• was recollect the time when therene
now.wer
thew a sthe
manufacturesmeo neltoa monetary
yt
the proposition of the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the what was the stateWohfat
Dublin where there was not
rotv
ofMr.He
Henrycould, recollect the
Grattan, the
Exchequer, for which the Hon. Member would vote, but time when, two
• n atthhe property
- were twelve manufacturers,ferethat
against which his speech, as far as it went, was directed.— Member for
w allenot one now. Dub in, therefore,
of this monopoly, was fast falling to
( Hear, hear.) The sante Hon. Member had made a and thei•e
!Powerful speech, to prove that the liability of Joint-stock
r benefitit.. But this was not all ; he;had the returns of
within and without the monopole ; of theot-offiee
bankers should be limited to the amount of capital subs
set ibed—(" Hear," from Mr. Clay)—and it was his opinion
, rtdileheaveedea(lotui:euteanhgdeee, had three classes—the townsw i th i n then Jo in t - still ; see what strange mistakes very sensible men might
stock principle—the towns not within it, arid Dublin by itself.
sometimes make !—(Hear, hear.) Instead of coming. to
0. Now, in those returns he found that Waterford, in Id3o, paial
question
the particular question before the House, which 4,726/. to the Post-office revenue. In 1836 it was 5,1001.
was, whether in Ireland a certain set of bankers, however That was 17 per cent. increase from 30 to 36. In Clonmel
respectable, should have the entire control over the mak- lie found the increase was 19 per cent. In Belfast the increase
ing of money within 50 miles round Dublin, whether ten was 25 per cent., or rather 2-14. In Cerk it was 26 per cent.,
counties in Ireland should be placed under a particular bank,. and in Limerick it was 27 per cent. With respect to the latter
that is the question, and ought it not to be decided on the place he implored the House to recollect that thNeex benefitt
e m e
grounds of common sense ?—( Hear, hear.) The Chan. itihestteam navigation had net yet reachedNe, Limerick.thre there was a
cellor of the Exchequer had not treated Ireland
fallacies
in . owns within the monopoly,. Newry :
d but
the matter. He had made an
.able speech, but decrease of 3,1 per cent. In Carless he tour! an increase,
it was but small, of :4, per cent. In Dundalk. there was a de-
he had avanced so glaring, that it was only to be accounted
for by the Right Hon. Gentleman's knowingm crease of 13- per cent., and in Drogheda there was a decrease of
beingthe monopoly,had the greatest decrease,
dices in England would operate with. hi • The. preju.Rghe 15
.per cent.,psrothat Drogheda, with the benefit of steam na-
vigation, within
thout
Honoui able Gentleman had begun by stating that
whilst Limerick, which was out of the monopoly, wi tie .
in Ireland, if there was a demand for gold, it benefit of steam navigation, had an increase of twetnto
must influence the exchanges, and gold must be found seven per cent,—( Hear, hear.) Now with
,re,,spe
in England, and thus be tried to raise a suspicion in the Dublin, he found that there was a deficiency of no ;as than 25
minds of English Members, by telling them that gold per cent.—(Hear, hear)—in the very focus of thiaemot
.Pu.:.,
must come from England to supply the deficiency
could not
benefits to other towns. ra
in Ire. with all the security of the Bank of Ireland. He knew! at,,,,,leet
land. He (Mr. O'Connell) admitted it. But how did be said that Dublin scattered its _
n increased on exports s
the Bank of Ireland prevent a run for gold on England? found that in Dublin the tonnage
The Bank of Irelaad had no store of gold ; it must apply 36 per cent., dthe imports
t had been said, to the and on on .ait 69 ax
in necessity to the English Bank. Instead of being a be imputed,
.notwiithsttanatnnavigation. In his opinion,Dublin ,
(be" cent. ; that
ference ems:one( by steam cheek upon a run for gold it was an additional drain all the towns in Ireland with
upon the Bank of England. The question was, should the ought to be the steadiest of
Th
to the Post-office revenue. e attorneys regularly
re ect
monopoly.ot the Bank of Ireland be continued? And itfur their powers; there was as much litigation
come there
was surprising that the Hon. Member for the Tower Ham- as ever there was. Dublin had the monopoly of all agencies,
lets, who had given such an excellent dissertation on poli- and yet in spite of all these advantages, in consequence of this
tical economy, should never have touched upon the ques. sirrocco of monopoly', tohfer.2eswas a deficiencyh in the revenue of
don 0? monopoly. The Chancellor of the Exchequer, the Post- ufUe from
d assailed r.
t M
r. 'er
Callaghancent for the
eChaneellorthoattthee
not content with the elap.trap to English Members i i.EXOI Nu" ba- didthink evidence
• he
as to varying the quantity of gold in this country, 1 had given. He not that he deserved it.—