The Sun.
London, England, 1839-04-13 00:00:00

be able to bring in that Bill till the latter end of the
month of May.
REGISTRATION OF ELECTORS' BILL.
In answer to Colonel SIBTHORP,
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said he trusted
this Bill would soon be brought forward.
OUTRAGE UPON THE BRITISH FLAG.

Lord PALMERSTON, in laying upon the table
(by command of her Majesty) certain papers relating to
the transaction concerning the Express packet at
Mexico, said, the papers contained the statement of
the officer as to the affair, and a letter of Count
Sebastiani contained an explanation and an apology,
honourable alike to the Government offering and
to the Government receiving it,—(Hear, hear, hear)—
and the apology having been offered without any official
demand, was therefore mote creditable to the
French Government.—(Hear.) Count Sebastiani sill
that he was ordered by the King of the French
to make known to the British Government the deep
regret which his Majesty felt at the removal of
a Mexican pilot from the Express Packet, and
he stated that when Admiral Baudin directed
that measure, he was not aware that the vessel
belonged to the British marine ; it was therefore the
result of a mistake, and in no degree arose from
any want of respect for the English flag. The affair was
sincerely deplored by the Government of the King
as well as by the Commandant of the French
squadron, and the strictest instruction had been
given for the most vigilant attention, in order to pre-
vent a. similar occurrence.—(Loud cries of " Hear
hear.") Count Sebastiani added, that he trusted
this explanation would be satisfactory to the
British Government, and that nothing would disturb
the union which both Governments had:so much at heart
to maintain between the two countries.—(Hear.)
CONSUL AT STOCKHOLM.
Sir W. MOLESWORTH inquired if Sir John
Ross had gone out as a Consul to Stockholm, and if
so, what was to be his salary ?
Lord PALMERSTON said Sir John Ross had
gone out as Consul to Stockholm, the amount of his
salary would he found by reference to the Consular
Estimates.

Sir WILLIAM MOLESWORTH asked if the
salary had not been reduced to 2001.

Lord PALMERSTON was understood to say 300,

RUSSIA AND INDIA.

Sir R. PEEL enquired if the Noble Secretary for Fo-
reign Affairs would lay upon the table ithout delay certain
papers which it was understood the Government had
received, explanatory of the designs of Russia respect-
ing British India, and which it was desirable to have as
soon as possible before Parliament, to remove the er-
roneous impressions which bad gained prevalence on the

subject.
Lord PALMERSTON said the papers ought to
have been delivered before. They would be, he hoped,
delivered to-morrow.

Sir JOHN HOBHOUSE said that, with regard to
the question of the Right Hon. Baronet, he had
understood that when the Right Hon. Baronet had
fixed the time of his motion, he had asked whether
the papers, as far as the India Board was concerned, could
be laid on the table before the holidays. Those papers
were not ready, and he considered that it was due to Lord
Auckland, and to the India Board, that no discussion
should take place until those papers were ready, which
he confidently expected they would be shortly.
Mr. DENNISTOUN asked if it was true that the
Powerful, notwithstanding she was commanded by
Captain Napier, was still 100 short of her crew ?

Mr. WOOD'S reply was inaudible in the gallery.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that he had given
notice that he should move the postponement of all the
Orders of the Day for Monday; he should not do so
with regard to the Irish Municipal Corporation Bill, as
he understood that his Noble Friend the Secretary for
Ireland intended to make a pro forma motion regarding
that Bill.

___ _....
PRISONS' (SCOTLAND) BILL.
On the Order of the Day for going into Committee
on the Scotland Prisons' Bill being read,

Sir G. CLERK (who in consequence of the noise
occasioned by Members leaving the House) was very in-
distinctly heard, said he had no desire to throw any ob-
struction in the way of improvement of the gaols in
that country, and that he entirety agreed with the
preamble of the Bill which was founded on the Report
of the Inspectors of Prisons, in Scotland. He
was also perfectly aware that the present system
could be continued no longer. He believed that
in proposing a Bill to effect so great a change
it might be expedient, provided it was restricted to a
limited time to propose a plan which would not be lis-
tened to if it was proposed for England—he meant the
establishment of a General Board in Edinburgh, which
should be invested with powers belonging to
the Secretary of State, but if that Board were
appointed, it became necessary to take care that
they should not have greater power than was
absolutely requisite for the purpose of introducing
a uniform system of prison discipline. Gentle-
men not connected with Scotland were not per-
haps aware of the extreme power with which
it proposed to invest these Commissioners. This
Board not only possessed the control over
the levying the money for the purposes of carrying the
Bill into effect; but they were to determine what :rate
should be levied from Scotland, and what proportion
should be doled out to the various districts in which the
gaols were situated. No inducement whatever was held
out to them to exercise any economy in the expenditure.
What he contended was that there should be good local
gaols in every local district, and that they should be
placed under the jurisdiction of local courts, subject
to the direction of the general court.—( Hear, hear.)
In conclusion the Hon. Baronet moved that it be an
instruction to the Committee that they have power to
divide the Bill into two parts.

Mr. F. MAULE said he could not agree to: the
motion. He thought the people of Scotland—who had
hitherto done so little for themselves on this subject—
should not draw upon the general funds of ,the
empire for such purposes. (Hear, hear, hear.)
In England the counties had taken great care of the
prisons. I❑ Scotland that was not the case. A few
counties indeed had aided the boroughs in the erection
of prisons. He thought, however, that this should be
compulsory, not voluntary.—(Hear, hear.) He must
support the general integrity of the Bill. As for part
titular objections, they would be properly discussed in
Committee.

Sir WILLIAM RAE denied that the gentlemen
of Scotland had been neglectful of the state of prisons
there, and every county would show that large sums of
money had been laid out in the improvement of gaols.
He admitted, however, that what had been done had
not been done upon a good principle. and therefore he
was very anxious that anything should be done under
the direction of a Board properly constituted. He
thought it would have been much better that upon this
subject two Bills should have been brought in instead
of the one now before the House, but still he would
not divide the House upon an opposition to it.
Mr. HAVES said that the state of prisons in Scot-
land was most discreditable. It was a state that pre-
vented those who administered justice committing per-
sons who ought to be committed, owing to not having
accommodation for them in the gaols, and that in that
way, in point of fact, they did not know what the state
of crime in Scotland was. He firmly believed that the
present Bill deserved the support of the House, and it
should have his cordial concurrence.

---
Mr. COLQUHOUN begged to inform the Hon.
Member for Lambeth that the landed interest in Scot-
land was not opposed to the plan of placing the support
of prisons upon it. On the contrary, the gentlemen of
Scotland had laid out a sum of 66,0001., raised by vo-
luntary subscription, upon the prisons of that country.
What he (Mr. C.) objected to was, the appointment
of the Central Board, by which if one county misma-
naged the funds for the support of its prisons, and acted
extravagantly, and another county acted with economy
and care, the savings of the one would be abstracted
and added to the extravagant expenditure of the other.
It was on these grounds that his Hon. Friend recom-
mended that the Bill should be divided into two parts.
After a few words from the LORD ADVOCATE and
Captain GORDON,
The House divided, when there appeared—
For the motion
Against it
Majority against the motion . • • —46
On our re-admission into the gallery, we found the
House in Committee, pro forma, on the Bill.
Mr. FOX M AULE said that as there was another
important measure which it was necessary to forward
that night, he should not propose to go further with the
Bill at present.
The Committee on the Bill was therefore postponed
to a future day.
SUPREME COURTS (SCOTLAND) BILL.
The LORD ADVOCATE moved that the House
should resolve itself into a Committee on this Bill.
On the motion that the SPEAKER do leave the chair,
Mr. WALLACE rose to move that an humble
Address be presented to her Majesty, praying that she
will be graciously pleased to direct an inquiry to be
!made, by persons unconnected with Scotland, First,
into the nature and extent of the duties incumbent on
the thirteen Judges of the Supreme Court in Scotland,
keeping in view the short period these Judges sit on
the Bench, the great length of the vacations they enjoy,
and the continuous large decrease of suits tried before
them. Secondly, whether one Court of Review, con-
sisting of four Judges, instead of two Review Courts of
co-ordinate jurisdiction under eight Judges, as at pre-
sent, would not facilitate the ends of justice in the Su-
preme Court of Scotland, and effect a saving to the
country of 14,0001. a-year. Thirdly, whether sub-
stantial and more speedy justice would be ensured to
the people of Scotland, by extending the Sessions of
the Supreme Court from five to eight months of the
year, and the sittings of the Judges from less than two
hours to five hours daily, with the substitution of oral for
written evidence, and an increase of viva voce procedure.
The Hon. Member contended that as the English
Jud.?...3s sat for at least ten months in the year, the public
was entitled to demand that the Scotch Judges should
devote their whole time to the public service, instead of

which they sat for only five months in the year, de-
voting
the rest of their time to other avocations, and
being country gentlemen as well as Judges. Almost all
the Scotch Judges lived at a considerable distance from
Edinburgh, and devoted their time for seven months
in the year to country recreations. The Sheriffs, also,
who were highly paid, did little or nothing, all the labour
falling on the Sheriff Substitutes, who were poorly
paid. The system of the Court of Session was a vicious
one. He could not conscientiously consent to any in-
crease in the salaries of the Scotch Judges until some
alteration was made in their method of conducting their
business, and conceived he was only doing his duty by
bringing forward this motion.
Mr. E. ELLICE, jun., seconded the amendment.
After the assertions which had been made in the House,
and reiterated in the public prints, an assurance ought
to be given that some inquiry should take place. It
was too much that the House should be called upon to
vote a large sum to increase the pay of those who were
stated to be rather a drawback than otherwise on the
administration of justice.
The LORD ADVOCATE regretted that none of
the observations or matters of fact which he had so
frequently stated had made the least impression on the
Hon.'Member for Greenock ; but be thought if the Hon.
Member had attended the Courtl he would have not
made the observations which he had now addressed to
the House. Reductions had been made in the Scotch
establisment exceeding 20,0001. a year ; and as he
had thought it desirable that the fees of suitors should
be diminished, a Bill had been brought in, and those
fees had been reduced to the amount of 14,000/. a-
year. So that there had been a reduction infinitely
more than the proposed increase of salary. With re-
gard to the vacational Court of Session, the Bill
proposed to increase the sittings of the Court
two months in the year. The lengthening of the
sittings would be a material benefit to the suitors.

Sit W. RAE said the conduct of the Hon. Member
for Greenock on this question had been most extraor-
dinary. A Committee was appointed to inquire
into the salaries of the Judges of Scotland, and
he inquired of witnesses as to the whole details
of the business of the Court of Session ; he even called
witnesses of his own, but their evidence so utterly failed
that he was compelled to withdraw from the Committee
on the plea of ill-health. The Bill was one of justice,
and he hoped his Hon. Friend would persevere with it.
He was sorry the Hon. Member for St. Andrews had
thought it necessary to repeat the attacks upon a vene-
rable Scottish Judge. Those attacks were viewed in
Scotland with disgust. He would affirm that no Judge
in the Court of Session was more respected than the
venerable Judge who was so traduced.

Mr. G I LLO N had not heard one argument in favour
of this most uncalled-for, and most unpopular Bill, and he
would do his utmost to defeat it. Was the present a time
for bringing in so expensive a Bill when the Chancellor
of the Exchequer was obliged to maintain ruinous taxes
upon necessaries for the purpose of keeping up an over-
grown establishment. It was indecent to press such a
1311 at the present time. The salaries of the Judges
were augmented in 1810, when house-rent and all arti-
cles of food were at war prices. He hoped the House
would defeat such a flagitious attempt to rob the country.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL, notwithstanding
all the odium and unpopularity he might incur, was pre-
pared to give the Bill his unqualified support. There
was no ground whatever for further inquiry.
Strangers-were then ordered to withdraw, and the
House divided, when there appeared--

. . 56

For the Committee
Against it .
Majority —45
The House then went into Committee, and on the
first clause being proposed,

Mr. WALLACE moved as an amendment to it,
" That all the Judges of the Supreme Court, except
the Lord President, shall without distinction perform
the whole duties incumbent as Judges of the Courts of
Session and Justiciary."
The LORD ADVOCATE opposed the amend-
ment. No advantage whatever could be gained by
snaking all the Judges sit in the Court of Justiciary.
Mr. WALLACE thought the Bill was framed with
a view to diminish the duties of the Judge, and
therefore he framed clauses with a view to counteract
that object. But, as there was no doubt his amend-
ment would be overruled by the same powerful assist-
ance that defeated him in the last &vision, he should
not trouble the House with a division.

The amendment was then negatived, and the original
clause adopted.
The LORD ADVOCATE proposed several verbal
amendments, which were agreed to.
Clause 2 was struck out, and clause 3 was, after a
verbal amendment by the LORD ADVOCVTE, agreed to.
Clause 4 was agreed to with a few verbal amend-
ments.

On clause 5 being put,
Mr. WALLACE proposed the following clause by
way of amendment—" That it shall be lawful for her
Majesty, her heirs and successors, to appoint any two
Judges of the Court of Session to pei form the Exchequer
business in Scotland ; and on a vacancy occurring in the
said Court of Session, that the same shall be filled up
from the English bar, so that one Judge at leaSt of the
Court of Session may understand English practice,
with a view to uniformity of decisions in Exchequer
trials, and also the improving the present practice in
civil cases in Scotland. That whenever actions are
commenced in the Court of Session, the evidence in all
such cases shall be given personally in Court by the
witnesses, before the Judge or Judges who is or are to
decide the cause.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL opposed the clause,

The clause was negatived without a division, and the
original clause was agreed to with a few verbal amend-
ments.

Clause 6 was agreed to.
On clause 7 being proposed,
Mr. WALLACE proposed, as an amendment, that
so long as the Bill Chamber shall be continued, the
duties thereof shall be performed in monthly rotation
during the spring and autumn vacation by all the Lords
Ordinary, two of whom shall attend from twelve to
three o'clock daily in the robing-room, or some other
room in the Parliament House, for the dispatch of bu-
siness, who, with the Clerks of Courts, shall call sum-
monses, receive defences, and give all necessary orders
for promoting causes, and adjusting records during the
said vacations.

This amendment was negatived without a division,
and the clause was agreed to.
Clauses 8,9, 10, and 11, were agreed to with some
verbal amendment. On clause 12 being put,
Mr. GILLON proposed as an amendment, that as
the number of causes had of late years considerably
diminished, a corresponding reduction should take
place in the salaries of the Judges.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL opposed the
amendment.

Strangers were then ordered to withdraw.
The Committee then divided, when there appeared—
For the amendment
Against it „
Majority .
On the next clause,
Mr. GILLON proposed as an amendment that the
blank be filled up with 4,300/. instead of 4,800/.
Mr. WALLACE supported the amendment.
Mr. JONES wished to know whether the Chief
Judges in Scotland had more to do than the other
Judges, as was the case in England.

. 52
. -48

The LORD ADVOCATE said they had to try
all Jury cases.

Sir W M. RAM said the Judges in Scotland had not
the same inducements that they had in England. Since
he had the honour of a seat in the House eleven
English Judges had been raised to the Peerage. The
Scotch Judges had no other inducement to take the
ofiice than the salary affixed to the office.
After a few words from Mr. F. FRENCH and the
CHANCELLOR Of the EXCHEQUER,

Strangers were ordered to withdraw.
The Committee divided, when there appeared—
For the amendment . . • . 13
Against it . . . . . . 42
Majority . . . . —29
The clause, after some verbal amendments, was then
agreed to.
On clause 13,
Mr. GILLON moved that when a Judge retired
from ill health, it should be a condition in the grant of
the pension, that be resume his employment if his
health be restored.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER op-
posed the amendment.

The Committee then divided, and the numbers were—
For the Amendment
Against it
Majority against it . • —42
The clause was then agreed to, as were the remain-
ing clauses of the Bill, and the preamble.
The House then resumed.
COPYRIGHT DESIGNS BILL.
On the motion of Mr. P. THOMSON, this Bill
went into Committee.
Mr. GODSON remarked it as rather singular, that
throughout the Bill the word "copyright" did not oc-
cur, and he suggested its introduction.
Mr. P. THOMSON, however, thought it unneces-
sary.

The Bill having gone through Committee the House
resumed.

THE BUDGET.

Colonel SIBTHO RP asked when the Budget would
be brought forward ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said

the annual accounts for the year bad not been yet made
up, and till they were he could not say when the budget
would come on.

Colonel SIBTHORP gave notice that he should
bring forward the question of Fire Insurances.

On the motion of Mr. BARING,
The Paper Duties Bill and the Brick Duties Bill
were read a second time.
TIMBER SHIPS.

The Select Committee on the shipwrecks of timber
vessels was appointed, consisting of the following Mem-
bers :—Mr. George Palmer, Admiral Adam, Sir C.
Vere, Mr, Alderman Thompson, Admiral Codrington,