The Sun.
London, England, 1863-06-03 00:00:00

LISBURN ELECTION.

The members of this committee, appointed to try the
merits of the petition against this election, were called to
the table and sworn.
PUBLIC-HOUSES BILL.

A very large number of petitions were presented in favour
of this bill. Mr. JIADFIELD presented 73, signed by 19,136,
in favour; Viscount ENFIELD two, but he begged to inti-
mate that he entirely dissented from their prayer—(hear,
hear) ; Mr. VANSIFTART, with a similar disclaimer—(hear,
hear) ; Mr. PEASE, from a place in Ireland, praying that
the bill might be extended to that country; Mr. 11.
BERKELEY, two against the bill, on the ground that its
provisions would contravert the liberty of the subject—
(hear) ; Mr. Cox, several to the like effect; also by Mr.
ROEBUCK, from 24,000 to 25,000 of the male inhabitants
of Sheffield, which he looked upon as an expression of the
opinion of the town on the subject; Mr. J.B.SMITII, several
from Stockport.
Mr. SOMES then moved the second reading of the bill.
Had the bill been placed in other and better hands, greater
justice would have teen done to the subject. He feared it
would suffer from his advocacy, He disclaimed being
actuated, in proposing this bill, by a blind and bigoted
zeal for the Sabbath ; neither had he any desire to trench,
as he had been accused, upon the liberty of the
working classes. No one more sincerely desired to
promote the true interests of the industrial classes than
he did. The opening of public houses for eight hours on
the Sabbath was a great evil, constituting a temptation and
a snare to working men on a day when they were at leisure,
and had some portion of their wages in their pockets. In
Manchester, last year, 3,373 people were taken into custody
for drunkenness, and 1,549 of these cases occurred between
10 o'clock on Saturday and Monday mornings—far more
than all the apprehensions for the rest of the week.
Several magistrates and judges gave it as their opinion,
based upon their magisterial and judicial experience,
that drunkenness was the fertile cause of all crimes.
Mr. Broughton, the magistrate of Southwark Police-court,
declared that there was more drunkenness on Sunday in
London than in all the capitals of Europe. The sight of
drunken women was very sad, and in every case it happened
that where the wifo and mother drank the family went to
ruin. And a committee of that house had distinctly de-
clared that drunkenness was the sole course of the misery
and the crime in the country. Justice Coleridge said
scarcely a criminal came before him who had not been led
into evil courses by strong drink. Baron Gurney said the
source of every clime could be traced to drunkenness. Mr.
Justice Patteson, when on the bench, declared that he
should have nothing to do except for the prevalence of
drunkenness. Earl Shaftesbury said that nine-tenths of
the pauperism and woes of the industrial classes were
caused by their own pernicious habits, and especially from
the terrible evil of intoxication. (Hear, hear.) Dr. Chal-
mers entertained a like opinion, and the chiet physician of
the London Hospital said that 75 out of every 100 cases
were attributable to drunkenness. The bill simply asked
the house to extend a principle already laid down that where
the welfare of the country required it special legislation
should be adopted. The bill was in consonance with the
feelings of the working classes of this country.
For instance, up to the 2d of June 4,101 petitions, with
693,255 signatures, had been presented in favour of the bill,
and 110. with 148,577 signatures against, and probably this
day petitions in favour of the bill, with 100,000 additional
signatures, had been presented—considerably over half a
million signatures altogether, and chiefly from the indus-
trial classes and their wives and daughters. (Hear, hear.)
Even the drunkards were in favour of the bill, for three pe •
titions from well known and avowed drunkards had been
sent up to him by the curate of Altringham in Cheshire,
desiring to have a restraint placed upon their weakness.
(Hear, and laughter.) The important parish of St. Pancras
had been canvassed on the subject, and the result was
that 25,051 were in favour of the bill, and 18,289 against
—giving a majority of 7,462 in favour. Many
of the publicans of Liverpool had signed petitions in fa-
vour of the bill. lbs hon. member said he had the opinion•
of between 80 and 90 magistrates and police constables in
favour of the bill. A restrictive act of the nature he sought
had been in operation in Scotland for nine years and with
the best effect, and a Royal Commission appointed to re-
port on its operations had declared their opinion that it
had worked exceedingly well. (Hear, hear.) Restrictions
of the like nature prevailed in New York and Tasmania.
He was so satisfied that the bill would constitute a great
boon to the ;public, that he was prepared at any trouble
or cost to himself to extend its blessings to the indus-
trial classes, (Hear.)
Mr. PEASE seconded the motion, declaring that it
would be one of the greatest boons yet conferred upon the
industrial classes ; nor would it restrict the liberty of the
subject of what the house was naturally very jealous. It
would promote religion, education, and common decency.
He pointed to the fact that the Sunday school teachers
were universally in favour of the bill, who saw much of the
evils of drunkenness, in proof of its efficacy. He begged
the house to let the bill go into committee, where the bill
could be amended.

Capt. JERVIS moved that the bill be read a second time
this day three months. Drunkenness had not increased ;
but, on the contrary, had greatly diminished from year to
year, and yet they were asked to make it a penal offence.
The system of petitioning that had been adopted in favour
of the bill was of an extraordinary character ; a more care-
fully organisedsystem had never been heretofore witnessed.
(Hear, hear.) The petitions had been in tke course of pre-
paration for some months, and all at once the house was
everwaelmed with them. And then some of the petitions
had been proved to have been forged. Notwithstanding
the restrictive act in Scotland, it did not appear, from the
returns, that drunkenness had lessened, or that the con-
sumption of spirits had decreased. (Hear, hear.) He was
told that the petitions were got up by a society the members
of which paid ss, a year, but which had other objects in view
than the closing of publie houses on the Sabbath—namely,
reduction of the income tax, and no examination of weights
and measures. (Laughter.) The result of the passing of
the bill would be (and in his opinion he was borne out by
the opinion of Mr. Arnold the magistrate) the illicit sale of
spirits on the Sunday. He saw no reason why excursion.
ists and others should be deprived of refreshments on the
Sabbath. Instead of working men using public houses
under good management and proper police supervi.ion,
drinking clubs would be established all over the country,
as was the way in Scotland. (Hear.) Cottages a little way
off the towns were advertised for, and rules drawn up for
their guidance, that the members should not split. (Laugh-
ter.) His experience in the army showed that the more
openly soldiers were permitted to drink, the less drunken-
ness was there, If a colonel shut up a canteen it usually
led to an increase of drunkenness.

Mr. K. SEYMER seconded the amendment. He de.
precated the language, such as "canting hypocrites," used
by the journals in the publichouse interest towards the
hon. member for Hull (Mr. Somes), and those who acted
with him, as he believed they were thorougly sincere in
what they were doing. Enactments of this kind would not
promote the morality of the people. Would it not be un-
just to prevent a working man, who walked for miles
through the streets, probably carrying a child, in order to
see the green fields, to have his glass of beer to refresh
himself, when they and others could go to their clubs, and
drink what they liked. (Hear, hear.) Class legislation of
this kind would greatly irritate the people as in the past.
(Hear.) This bill might be adapted to small villages, but
could never be brought into operati ,n in large towns. When
they closed the Post-office on Sunday it was supposed to be
an act in accordance with the feeling of the country, but as
soon as it was effectuated the whole country rose against it,
and it was rescinded by the house without a trial. Such
would be the case if this bill were passed, and they would
probably have a renewal of the Hyde-park riots. (Hear.)
They would find it heard to separate John Balleycorn
from the people of this country. (Hear, hear, and a laugh.)
He trusted the common sense of the house would reject the
bill ; most assuredly if it were adopted the house would be
compelled in a great hurry to rescind it. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. CLAY would do everything in his power to lessen
drunkenness, but as ho did not consider this bill would have
that effect he regretted he could not support the proposition
of his hon. friend and colleague. Were the bill endowed
with a permissive character, like the Health of Towns Bill,
he should be prepared to support its going into committee.
Mr. HORSFALL supported the bill. He had obtained,
since the mover of the amendment (Captain Jervis) spoke,
a return of the consumption of spirits since the passing
of the Forbes Mackenzie Act in Scotland, and instead of the
consumption of spirits continuing the same as previously,
there had been a falling off in the consumption in five years
of no less than 75,000 gallons. And the Royal Commis-
sioners sioners reported most favourably of the moral a
effect of the change. Eighty-two out of
The Clint
Constable in the country were in favour of the bill.
and
gallant
Constable of Harwich, which the honourabled reported that
member (Captain Jervis) represenitne 87ofanthe chief
there had been a great improvementn e_netsh:
ahnadbicitsuoieft the
on
town, especially in regard to (?rugu and barwomen of
the
Liverpool Sabbath.
petitioned Seven
nhzjii..;:etudr barmenf
the bill, so that they
were A very large majority of
hfavourcited
o thefst ati statisticsclosing
might get rest on the
found that a majority of the
opinion. It every town and rural vil-
lage of this op t;anidn
ot the e p householdersubliehot e s o
n. of t
he vl
desr
Lip
bboebo
as the people of
inhabitants were .
of the same opinion
would confer a lasting
opposed the bill If
tssing, upon
his country. (Hear.)
people would I),3.unable t ) get even their Dlr W. MARTIN f passed i 't
reioibtthainbeidl—l were
eyl passed%-oiiurold.
din-
nersu to fro sr emp the
r beer on the Ssae onbs ae twh
e.
allla ig:ce i‘ra%P'sej,is. Po°;lll'tehde :b:11 IN
(ruickalvyicfitnordytohvaetrthcommon
strung the how too ti htleel-
ngs of irzitation ou the part of the people would6be crew
y fted,
and they would have a repetition of the Hyde Park riots,
when the house would, as on that occasion, have to go
through the undignified course of.
iv
pressure from without. People
woulgddirningkwaacytutaollay
omuotbof.
spite, and thus druulienness would be promoted.
And those whoal‘N.vaoyns
They will drink h
never d
drank
•Navnilkl drink the more 1
(Laughter.)
Mr, BAINES supported the bill. The signatures to the
petitions in favour of the bill were four-told; those against,
which constituted a sufficient manifestation of the opinion
of the public out of doors tor the house to act upon. He
was satisfied that the passing of the bill would elevate the
moral and physical condition of the people. Originally he
was opposed to this bill, not to its principle, but because
he objected to the total closing of public-houses on the Sab-
bath, being in favour of evening cluing; but he gave way ii
to the desires of a body of rz,ape,ctabie working men who
approved of closing publie•houses on the Sabbath,
Mr. F ACNE opposed the bill on account of its tyran-
nical character.

Mr. LAWSON viewed the subject n 3 a
police question,
considering that unless so viewed t.',.tey would have no right
to interfere in (114 i wEv }yili!. the liberty of the people in re-

gard to the consumption of strong drink. He cited th
opinion of the -Under-Secretary of State for the Home
De/pertinent (Mr. Bruce) in favour of the bill, though he
said he objected to interfere with tile " recreations et the
people." (Hear' hear.): The legislation of past years had
been attended, beyond all dispute, by a diminution of
drunkenness, and this being so, it would be well for the
house to lake a step in the same direction, because increased
good could not fail to result from it. In order to avoid
any appearance of hardship he should be willing to support
in committee the insertion of a clause permitting public-
houses to be open for two hours per day to accommodate
travellers; but merely to accommodate London was no
reason why drunkenness on the Sabbath should be per-
mitted all over the country. (Divide, divide.)
Sir G. GREY said he voted for the introduction of the
bill out of respect to those who promoted it, but he could
not shut his eyes to the fact that its promoters would not
stop short of the provisions of this bill, were it adopted,
but would seek to place a prohibition on all Sunday recrea-
tions whatever. (Hear, hear.) If the bill were
passed, not a single glass of beer or spirits
could be legally purchased throughout the whole of
England on the Sabbath—not from 11 on Saturday
evening till 6 o'clock on Monday morning. (Hear, hear.)
Now, he was bound to say, if the house was so ill advised
as to pass this measure, its provisions could not be carried
out. (Hear, hear.) Everything tended to show that
drunkenness was greatly on the decrease all over the coun-
try, and the right hon. baronet cited figures with respect to
persons taken into custody for drunkenness in the metropo-
litan district which supported his statement. In the last
two years there had been a diminution of 2,000 in the me-
tropolis, notwithstanding the increase of the population.
And he could report a similarly improved state or things
in Liverpool and other large towns, a circumstance he attri-
buted t the improved education and habits of the people.
The reaction which the passing of the bill would create in
the minds of the people would be fraught with danger. Thu
habits of Scotland were different from those of England ; not
beer but spirits was chiefly consumed ; and a rigid obser-
vance of the Sabbath was in acccordance with the desire of
that country. In London, at oue o'clock on Sunday, they
would see crowds of young men and women respectably
dressed fetching their dinner beer. Now why should they
and many families be deprived of fresh beer, and compelled
to bottle it and place it in a secluded place for use
on Sunday. The bill would be a great injustice to excur-
sionists and others. He blamed the promoters of the bill
for seeking by acts of Parliament to improve the morals
and alter the habits of the public; by doing so they would
retard the happy progress now taking place. (Cheers,) He
asked the house to reject the bill.
Mr. 11. BERKELEY referred to his committee of 1855,
and defended its acts. As to this bill he should oppose it
as an attempt to cripple the liberty of the subject. (Divide,
divide.)
Mr. ADDERLEY rose amidst loud cries for a division.
The bill was aimed solely against drunkenness, and it
could be easily amended in committee so as to be adapted to
the reasonable desires of the respectable class of the com-
munity,
Sir S. M. PETO said, as one of the largest employers of
labour in the country, he was not prepared to adopt a strin-
gent measure of this kind. They must deal equally be-
tween all classes. Let the seller and recipient of fish on
the Sabbath be punished. He could support a bill for a
restriction of the hours of selling beer and spirits on the
t-abbath, but he could not do otherwise than vote against
the second reading of this bill. (Divide, divide.)
Mr. NE WDEGATE would support he second reading,
on the understanding that this bill was rendered permissive
in c inittee. (Divide, divide.)
Sir H. CAIRNS would support the bill, in the belief
that it, would lead to a restriction of hours.

Mr. restricting the hours.
Sir J. SuLINETLwLaEs Yin otapypoouserdotthae bbi
ill.
Mr. H. B. SHERIDAN should vote against the bill, be-
cause it was not endowed with a permissive character.
Mr. HARDY opposed the bill, and trusted the Govern-
ment would introduce one to amend the licensing system.
The house (five o'clock) being very impatient tor a divi-
sion, Mr. SOMES briefly replied, ana being appealed to by
Mr. AYRTON whether he would endow the bill with a per-
missive nature, stated that he should abide by the pre-
amble.
Atter a few words from Lord H. VANE,
The house divided, when there appeared—
' For the second reading lO3
Against it
78
Majority against —l7s
with The announcement was received h loud cheers by the
opponents of the measure.
The bill was consequently last.
SHEEP AND CATTLE (SCOTLAND) BILL.
This bill was read a second time.
SALMON FISHERIES (IRELAND) BILL.
Mr. M'M AHON postponed the second reading to Wed-
nesday next.
METROPOLIS TURNPIKE ROADS ACT AMEND-

MENT BILL.
Bill recommitted pro forma.
FISHERIES (IRELAND) BILL.

On the motion of Sir R. PEEL this bill was read a se-
cond time. He should propose to make a day sitting for it
next Thursday ; he should then make a statement of the
nature of this bill.
SUPPLY.—DAY LICENCES.
_ _

On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EX-
CHEQUER, a resolution was agreed to in committee of
ways and means to fix the charge for occasional licences to
sell beer, spirits, or wine at 2s. 61 per day, such licence
not to exceed six days in all.
The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and
the house adjourned shortly before six o'clock.

SPORTING INTELLIGENCE.---This Day.

ASCOT RACES-THIS DAY.

EY ELECTRIC TELEGRAPH,
ROYAL RUNT CUP.

Victor ....
Glenorchy
2
The Knave

Tsvnty-nine ran.
SCRSTCHED —Catch'em Alive, Zelle, and Polynesia.
SWEEPSTAKES.

Santhal
Dirt Cheap ..
Lord of Linne 3
ELEVENTH BIENNIAL STAKES.
Becky Sharpe 1
Eight ran.
CORONATION STAKES.

Lady Augusta
Fantail
Crafton Lass
3

Five ran,
ASCOT DERBY STAKES,

Onesander • • 1
Queen Bertha
Blue Mantle

Seven ran.

NAVAL PROMOTIONS--This Evening.

The following appointments were made at tho Admiralty
this afternoon :
Commander—David Miller, to be Captain.
F. W. Sutton (B),, engineer, to the Indus, as supernu-
merary.
Edward Towel], acting engineer, to the Orlando.
Thomas Catchpool, assistant-engineer, to the Asia, for
the Charger.
Thos. Scott (B), to the Cumberland, as supernumerary.
James Legate, to the Edinburgh, for tenders,