The Sun.
London, England, 1837-12-07 00:00:00

" That your petitioner must respectfully approaches your

Honourable House with a petition and complaint touching a
matter which not only affects himself, but also deeply concerns
the privileges of your Honourable House, the rights of the
electors of these realms, the especial interest of the people of
Ireland, and the general well-being and concord of all parts of
the United Kingdom.
" That your petitioner begs respectfully to call the attention
of your Honourable House to the existence of a public
subscription set on foot in England for the purpose of encou-
raging the presentation of petitions against Members returned
to serve in this present Parliament for the counties, cities,
towns, and boroughs of Irela:id, and of defraying the ex-
penses attendant upon the conduct and prosecution of the same.
" That it appears from successive advertisements in the
public newspapers that a very large fund has been already
raised in England for the purposes above-mentioned.
That inasmuch as the persons who have been induced to
subscribe to this fund, for the most part, are unconnected with
the constituencies of Ireland, and have had no opportunity of
personally witnessing the proceedings which took place at the
Irish elections, they have necessarily been liable to be misled
by the false representations of persons who have an interest
in deceiving them.
" That your petitioner sincerely believes that the persons
who have set on foot this subscription desire, and intend
thereby, to frustrate and annul the choice of the electors of
Ireland by the following means :
" First—Taking advantage of the expensive nature of the
present process for the trial of controverted elections, they
hope to overbear by such subscriptions the possibility of any
resistance or defence upon the part of such sitting Members as
may not he able to defray the expense or defending a seat in
Parliament—an expense which not unfrequently has amounted
to several thousand pounds upon the trial of a single petition.
" Secondly—Availing themselves of the present state of the
law, they propose, by the presentation of petitions against a
considerable number of Members of your Honourable House,
to disqualify from sitting upon Committees for the trial
of Election Petitions a large proportion of those Mem-
bers whose political opinions are in accordance with the
sentiments of the electors of Ireland, ar,d thus to obtain
Committees favourable to the objects for which this confede-
racy has been formed.
" That your petitioner humbly conceives that such a confe-
deracy and subscription is in the highest degree unconstitu-
tional, and that if it be converted into a precedent, a similar
proceeding may hereafter be used as an instrument destructive
to the rights and liberties of the British people.
" That in reference to the connection between Great Bri-
tain and Ireland, it will be productive of the most injurious
effects, as tending to create in Ireland an opinion that there
exists among the English nation a strong antipathy to the
Irish people, and a disposition to obstruct the free expression
of their opinions through their reprecentatives in Parliament, and
that thus the harmony which ought to subsist between two
nations united as well by mutual interest as by an international
compact, will be endangered if not destroyed.
" That your petitioner has seen in the public newspapers,
a letter purporting to have been signed by Sir Francis Burdett,
a Member of your Honourable House, in which letter the said
Sir Francis avows that lie has contributed to this fund. And
your petitioner humbly submits, that it is the duty of your
Honourable House to enquire how far it is consistent with the
impartial exercise of the functions which this Honourable
Member may be compelled (subject to the obligation and sanc-
tion of an oath) to undertake, that he should thus voluntarily
have made himself a party in a case in which the law consti-
tutes him a judge.
" That in exemplification of the results which may be ex-
pected to arise from the employment of the above-mentioned
subscription, your petitioner has observed that a petition has
been presented impeaching the validity of the late election
and return for the county of Limerick, which petition your
petitioner conscientiously believes would not have been pre-
sented with a view to its being brought before a Committee of
your Honourable House, unless the parties from whom it
emanates had expected to receive assistance and support from
the above-mentioned confederacy.
" That it does not become your petitioner in his own case
to make any statement which may induce Members of your
Hon. House to prejudge the merits of a petition which will
be subjected to the investigation of a Committee of your Ho-
nourable House ; but your petitioner firmly believes that his
return was the result of the free choice of the electors of the
county of Limerick, and that the grounds of the said petition
are of a nature wholly frivolous and untenable.
" That your petitioner is not ashamed to confess that even
though assured of a favourable result, he does not regard with
indifference the expense of defending his seat under the pre-
sent mode of conducting the trial of controverted elections;
and he therefore humbly submits that if he should decline to
defend his seat under a feeling of unwillingness to enter upon
an unequal contest with parties sustained by a subscrip-
tion collected in England from individuals who are
wholly regardless of the interests of the constituency of the
county of Limerick, and only anxious to promote the objects of
the party to which they are attached, the free choice of the
electors of the said county would in such case be defeated
and annulled by the machinations of the unconstitutional
confederacy.
" That, as well, therefore, upon grounds of public policy, as
with reference to his own individual case, your Petitioner
humbly prays that an enquiry may be made into all the pro-
ceedings connected with the said subscription, for the pur-
pose of ascertaining whether such subscription be consistent
with the laws of the land, the usages of Parliament, the pri-
vileges of your Honourable House, and the rights of the Elec-
tors of Great Britain and Ireland ; and that your [louourable
House may take such other measures for securing to the Peo-
ple of Ireland protection against any injury or injustice, that
may arise from such confederacy and subscription, as in its
wisdom it shall see fit.
" And your Petitioner will ever pray.
" WILLIAM SMITH b'BRIEN."
Upon the question being put, that the petition do lie on the
table,
Capt. PE C HELL rose to put a question to the Hon.
Baronet the Member for Shoreham (Sir C. Burrell), arising
out of something which had fallen from the Hon. Baronet, in
the discussion on Monday night, ,upon the proposition of the
Hon. Member for London for the removal of the civil disa-
bilities of the Jews. On that occasion the Hon. Baronet was
reported to have said that Mr. Salomons went down into Sus-
sex and obtained a number of votes, but that he (Sir C. Bur-
rell) could not tell by what means those votes were obtained.
He (Capt. Pechell) hoped the Hon. Baronet would not ob-
ject to explain what he meant by those words, and he trusted
the Hon. Baronet did not mean to cast any imputation upon
Mr. Salomons.
Sir E. KNATC HBULL said, that he was again obliged
to rise to order. (Hear, and a laugh.) We understood him
to say that the Hon. and Gallant Member for Brighton must
be aware that he was out of order in referring to reports of
what had been said in that House.
The SPEAKER said, that if he rightly understood the
object of the Hon. and Gallant Member for Brighton, it was
this—that on behalf of an individual who felt himself ag-
grieved, to ask if the statement of something said in that
House were correct. If there were any doubt on the point of
order, he should be disposed to give a preference to the indi-
vidual who felt himself aggrieved.— ( Hear, hear. ) But it
remained with the Hon. Baronet, the Member for Shoreham,
to answer the question if he thought fit.
Sir CHARLES BURRELL said that he was most happy
to give any explanation in his power. With regard to the oc
casion alluded to, he could only say, that reference was made
to himself so unexpectedly, that he spoke without deliberation,
and he was not now able to say what precise words he might
have used ; but of this he was sure, that his meaning was not
to impute anything dishonourable to Mr. Salomons.—( Hear,
hear. )—[The Hon. Member added one or teo other observa-
tions, which we did not hear distinctly.]
Mr. II LIME said with respect to the petition that had been
presented by the lion. Member for Limerick, as the subject
was to conic under the consideration of the House at an early
day, he should submit to the House whether it would not be
proper to have it printed.
The SPEAKER thought if the Hon. Member who had
presented the petition rat sired to have it printed, that it was in-
cumbent upon him, not upon the Hon. Member for Kilkenny,
ito move that it should be printed with the votes. It was also
• necessary that the Hon. Member should fix some specific day

on which it should be brought under the attention of the

House.
theMra.ttSen.
attention of
oßfiEthNe sHaincal.seittwoatsbcceeirtuaeisntliyonlisisvh
iinteetnhteironantoHeoasl
Member—the Hon. Member for Wiltshire, for instance—could
subscribe to a fund to enable parties to question a return, in
_
which he had no interest, and of which he knew nothing?
He should move that the petition be printed in the Votes of
the House. He begged to give notice that he should bring
the subject under its attention to-mon ow.—(Cheers.)
On the motion that the petition be printed,
the Mnra.tuNrVe.
oNt. VaYn election NN said,petthiatiton, t h
the
that
h
petitionhe thought
w-
a s much
e printed. He thought, however, that the House ought to
so h into
pause before it adopted the principle of the petition.
ucSe thirße. HI
nNaGs
eLtloSsaw adopt nothing in
differentin t hperipneetiipt I.‘hatth s
rheofuelrde
litne
e-
dto the return for Limerick, than had been adopted with re-
ference to the cases of Bridgewater and Berwick.
ought
House Mr. S.
as an
0 'BR
aggrievedlE N sptlr
party
trehfeerepresented h
the
himself i
stwai n
000tlitilseet
conspiracy—( Hear, hear)—that had been entered into ag
twheorsee
awnlat obl,
el itkoe
dhei
fme
isyt,hrepresented
es largeof re
tci otinosntsi
.t u e st
h;
nehr.
en..at
fore,
motion - on the i
n reference
circumstances
be
o
Baronet, the Member for North Wilts.—(Cheers Andi
printed
begged to move, humble as it was, that his petition be pri
with the votes. the conduct
shteaet ersd ~o)tfot
hfoeudo.it:
specific
cd
facts
tsfntiU.itShSreEspLeLetstaoidthtehaetietehteiopnetiittsieolnf,dbidatnntotersetalytea?nny:
tained statements in reference to the conduct of a Member of _O7l.
House. He owned that he did not see any reason why the li
Member should propose to bring forward his motion for t,
morrow, seeing that another Hon. Member had a notice ten'
same effect on the books for to-night. If they were to neer
on the general question to-night, it was quite clear that
t'7.
Hon. Member would have nothing to state to-morrow that the
House would not already be in possession of.
Sir ROBERT PEEL said that this was not the
%Olt
of an individual who merely complained of another indivi
y.
but it contained an argument on grounds of public po.ce..
If the House ordered the petition to he printed, they
would give the argument of one Hon. Gentleman an
thenticity for which another Hon. Gentleman would be I „
debted to the reporters.—( Hear, hear.) He hoped, theren
fore, that the House would not consent to the petition ben)
printed. ight
Mr. O'CONNELL said that the objection of the 11.
Hon. Baronet appeared to him to be a comical one, 118110:;,
that the petition contained an argument.— ( Laughter.) ' n-
it appcared to him, that if the petition contained no
ment, it would be a much better reason than that of tbe nu.")
p tition
Baronet !or its not being printed.—(Continued langhtefrso
And, after all, would the Hon. Baronet say it was o
great importance that an argument should be printed to-tneto
row morning—that it was so formidable an objeetiliag
the petition, that you should have the power of ree,
two or three hours before you came down, a reason we! it
was not the reason on which he founded his petition, beeaustby
was his individual interest alone, and there was no cause vi,b,
they should not have it printed. It involved, to be sure,
interests of many individuals in the House. It might be
had
sirable to know how many there were in the House wll°A 'far
contributed to that fund.—(Tremendous cheering.) e
r'Wiltss
hi
as he understood the lion. Baronet the Member for ro
he had put his name publicly to the Newspapers. He had give.
fair notice, and there was certainly candour in his conduliee'd
(Hear, hear.) Therefore, they all knew if he was ea of
upon to serve on any election Committee that he was °lle
tie
the parties interested, that he was one of the parties to
petition, and they could give him a challenge. (Hear, hearid
But what could be more monstrous than that any man shle
be allowed to be both a party and a judge. —( Cheers.)
would ask, was it to be endured in this country, that tbe,j
should be a tribunal in which men who contributed to the e..
penses of a suit should be allowed to zit as judges.--( Cheers,/
He had heard of what people called un-English acts---thereil
must certainly be now a new translation of the word; at
events he thought the conduct of some parties was exceeding rf
un- English. Therefore any Gentleman on the other side
the House who might have contributed to this fund, or
this
petted others, was bound to come forward and support re
motion, in order that they might know whether they were
to be judged judges who were not partizans, so that thelio
might be at least the apperrance of fair play.—(Cheers.)
( Mr. O'Connell) was very glad the Hon. Member for Limer'cr
had brought forward this question. All the Hon. Men'bea
asked at present was to have his petition, which then lay °3
the table, printed with the votes, so that there might be
cavilling to-morrow about the House not having been aPPeriseei.
of the petition.—( Hear, hear.) He had given notice ei
motion, and he wished the documents on which that 111°tttt.
was founded should be in the hands of Members. He
O'Connell) saw no reason for objecting to that course.-
( Hear, hear.) d,
Lord STANLEY hoped that the House would not be leap
—and he had risen in the hope that his Honourahw
Friend ( Sir F. Burdett) whom he saw was about to rise'
would not be led—into any premature discussiew
of a question which he (Lord S.) at least hoped was to 11;
rgo a full discussion that night—( A burst of cheers fret Witt,
Tories)—as to whether any individual or any set of inui.a.;
duals had or had not a right to subscribe to the expense °.
election petition?—( Continued cheers from the Tories. /
This was a much more narrow question than that, ana
lie would not be led from it into the general quest'°;;
—( Hear.) He had risen for the purpose of pointing e",
to the Noble Lord the Secretary for the Home Departineni:i
that there was between the present case and the one broug'"
forward by the Hon. Member for Oxford a much closer 0,1;
logy than the Noble Lord supposed ; because he thought e""
did not seem rightly to have drawn the comparison u`;
tween the two. His Hon. Friend had said that in this Os
there was no complaint of any proceeding affecting the cleen
tion. No more there was in the instance of his Hon. Friend tl,.e;
Member for Oxford, where a petition was presented that cc",
afterwards withdrawn. That petition complained that s°lll,
one had written a letter to an individual who had voted
behalf of the sitting Member, asking that individual to eg
evidence of bribery : and upon the answer that he could r'`ni
conscientiously give such evidence, he was offered a large sur,
of money to appear before the Committee, which was sub,,
nation of perjury. That petition had nothing whatever to
130
with the election ; it did not enter into it even so much tis t t
present petition did, and because it might appear to imPbelanl
some one in the House, it was thought most advisable
el
the petition should be withdrawn. It was withdrawn, an,l
he left it to the House to say whether the present petition ni
enter into the election itself much more.
The. ATTORNEY-GENERAL said the question for 01
House to decide was whether this petition was to be Priat;s
or not ? Now, as prime facie the petition complained tee
breach of privilege, and that a Member of that House "it
been prejudiced by the conduct of another Member, why shoue f
not the petition be printed, according to the common courselg,
the proceedings of the House? If it had been a petition b.„
the Bridwater petition, that was calculated at all to Pre.rii
dice thee lection, he should offer his recommendation tbae`..s
should be withdrawn. But if the House entered into
petition, it did not prejudice the election at dui/
because the petitioner simply said, " I believe I was fait
elected ; I must have a fair trial, and I think that thatf,
trialar
Bart. i s
theli likely e yahtisoent :Membertht
hbthaheeet prejudicederHtssilfluoioagbutr
slightest
uerNitsbpootstreditirobheninygpq
trutNi
eovhih
erneajeldttlshvisunheabttsi
oamsr
klecier.egr!
nri_aNttlsi
oo(opotnrinfat
illegalhotce hcefser. t_
...,eqbTieue(beccLer
ouoi
nebWhou
ettheaprtrs
e.tjh)uedni
cN
whether,we,
whether the petition ought to be printed or not. ,•° c f
could feel more strongly than himself the great impertaneeh of
anything that was calculated to prejudice the free rnanrene.t
justice in that House. The Hon. Member complained tba
justice was likely to be prejudiced; therefore he hoped
House would not refuse to allow the petition to be printed.
'len
Mr. H. HINDE—What had fallen from the Lear,
Gentleman showed the absurdity of any Member taking,,rrn
in a debate the first part of which he had not heard.----(
Ch
If he had been attending to what had taken place, hew A-fri'
have been aware that the matter to which allusion had.
quently been made in that debate, had taken place last wilier
and had no connection with the Berwick or the Britlge`d,----
cases, to which the Learned Attorney-General bad allude fora
(Hear.) Here the allegation was, that the tribunal h,%,(!,
which the petition might be tried could not but be preit'utie
if the Hon. Baronet, the Member for Wilts, should baler° nen
balloted on such Committee. In the one last night the eBa
gation was that there had been subornation of perjure',
had not any thing at all to do with the last electiete
no more to do with the last election for that burteie
than the present petition. Hear, hear, hear.) le pre'
was a breach of privilege, so also must have been the leo for
setae(' last night. At the suggestion of the Hon. .Meu'r th'
the University of Oxford, in which the Noble Secretary' it tee
Home Department concurred, he had then witedraW„islity
petition, and the House would not be acting with itnna' fleet
if it one night refused to receive a petition, and on thf foal
night received one of the same kind, because presenteu
thc other side of the House. at of
Mr. PR YME— The reason alleged for the withdinhioe
the petition last eight was that it related to a matter Of
might be inquired into before the Election Committ ° e.etice
course it could ; for it was the duty of such a Con not'
inquire whether any witness ha I been tampered with °r ion'
That was not the case here ; for the conplaint of tb.re aft
Member for Limerick could not be inquired into
b''lts (Sir
Election Committee, even if the Hon. Member for W 1
F. Burdett) was a member of it. .edieeereat
Sir F. BURDETT was personally exceedingly 1.0 yon'
to the fate of the petition ; but he must say that le b
ed to -3
Member by whom it bad been presented had app7e_. House,
unaccustomed to the courtesy of flon. Members:fthinsai,nte
or he would have given him ( Sir F. B.) notice .
to present it. However, the matter was of no
him further than that he might not have been
rstolo_,';otaee
and have been prevented from replying tore e leehiat to be,
that had been made upon him. It appea.rteourostances at
the whole, one of the most extraordinary ei
experience%
had occurred in the course of his Parliamerilotahrywas
very few!,
(Hear, hear)—and it took for granted,
whfor Dublin, an a(
nate for the Hon. and Learned Member it
a criminality, a
and called it by a name, which attributed it
her did not pe,eeU,,.
Learned Nlern nishme
(Cheers.) The Hon. and Lea _
onest men
,cO,
to show how the act itself was criminal of n,2 the
thy,,
t cheers from
to see justice done—(Veheinen
Cheers.)
justice uPlldeer
benches)—to see justice to Ireland,
Cheers. ) The cO", that
aci:cle°lsarnPrbirrileta'r:acleY:weeld.--( Great
Hon. and Learned :Member himself.—(
ht it was
He thong r pro-
House to depart from its ineial
_preaocottireaer.y
to all forrnbecca
contrary to common sense, d a petition,iracy
wr9
a'entertain such
ceedings of that House, to
tone of the Hon. and Learned MembFr would no
ein3e, a coes.P r nue-
d combination bise
laugh
n''f.. e' partieiTwu a; tee
prot s ni
Membervelhf illegal.
tiie namedio Hon. and
asSi'nta
dsa
greatest conspirator he knew of in •Innit.t°mder ut tuei:l;°:
n
e.