The Sun.
London, England, 1806-06-17 00:00:00

WESTANDIA AUDITORS,

Mr. FIAWTfrORN brought up the Report of the
West Itidia Auditors' Bill. •

Mr. ROSE said, that there was no provision here
that any of the Commissioners should go td the
West Indies : he had therefore an Amendment to
propose; which was, that three of, the Commis-
sioners at least should positively go to the West
Indies. .

The SPEAKER, informed, him,
.that. his Amend-
ment, ought to be 'brought forward as one to the
body of the Bill : he was'at present to put the ques-
tion, that the blank should be filled up with the
word ",two," purporting, that two Commissioner's
should g 6 to the West Indies. If this should be
carried
.ih 'the 'affirthative, the Right • Honourable
Gentleman's 4rnendment must be ptoposed in a
subsequent Stage.
Mr. HUSKISON, Mr. PEECEVAL, Mr. LONG„ and
Mr. STURGES BOURNE, contended,that it was ab-
surd to sendonlY two Commissioners' to the West
Indies, Where the barthen of the business lay, and
where there was the greatest risk of mortality,
while three retrained here doing almost nothing.

Mr.' RYDER also contended-,, that most of the
evidence might be better, taken in• the West Indies;
and therefore thought it absnrd the Commissioners
abroad should
.not have that power of residing
which the Commissioners here hard : bethought the,
,measure was only 'Calculated to increase the pa-
tronage of the Treasury.
Lord HENISY PETTY, 'Lord HowicK, and, Mr.
MORRIS, on the other hand, contended, that the
burthen of the business was not in, the West Indies,
for the Gentlemen on the other side seemed to for
get, that this Commission WEIS not only intended for
the investigation of abuses, but also for the bringing
up of the Accounts in arrear.
After a few words from Mr. FuLLEtt. and Mr.
WM. SMITH, the House divided on Mr. Rose's
Amendment, that the blank should be filled up
with the word " three.7—Ayes 21—Noes 72.
Upon our return to the Gallery we found Mr.
HUSKISSON on his legs, uraing some further objec-
tions to the Bill.—To which obje&ions Lord HENRY
PETTY replied, alledging that the measure was cal-
culated to 'secure a complete and speedy investiga-
tion of the abuses complained of, and also to guard
against their recurrence.
Mr. ROSE repeated his former assertion, that the
places about to. 1?e created by the Bill would be
mere sinecures, and serve Only to extend ministerial
patronage. This assertion the Right Hon. Gentle,
man expressed his Resolution to repeat again and
again, however it might, be resisted by the Noble-
Lord, who. ought, in his judgment, to have sought
much more experience before he had ventured to
originate a measure of this nature, which betrayed a
total ignorance of official business.
'Lord ROIVICK expressed his surprise at the
quarter from' which the House had.just heard such
vehement (injections against sinecures. After much
lofty declamation upon political purity—after such
high tones of mdependencee--and such ardent ex- .
pressions -of solicitude .for the economic expendi-
ture of the pantie money, the House Would:natu-
rally look for some evidence of the Right 116,if;
Gentleman's sincerity, and no doubt that sincerity.
'would be • evinced very soOn,'Perhaps to-morrow,,
by the Right Honottrable Gentleman's resignation
to his
.Sovereign of the
.sitiectire which‘he himself
held." With regard to the Right Hon. Gentleman's_
allusion to, his Noble Friend's (Petty's) want of ex-
perience, it was true, the 'Noble Lord observed, that
his Noble Friend was .not possessed of that experi-
ence ;which might be lboked for from a veteran in
office.. There was, however, a great deal of the ex-
perience to which,- perhaps, the political success of
the Right Hon. Gentleman .was owing, * which he
rathet thought net desirable to his
.Noble Friend ;
while such experience as was really valuable could'
not be difficult of attainmenPto that assiduous ap
plication of a&ive talents for which his Noble.
Friend was so eminently distinguished. -But upon
the subject of want of experience in the arrange-
ment of this measure, the, 'Right Hon. Gentleman
dealt in tact only in assertion—for experience, even
very recent, vos in favour of that' provision in the
Bill of which the Right Honourable Gentleman
complained.- It .was notorious that in consequence
of the sending home one of the Commissioners from.
the West Indies in the course of the last Admini-
stratien, the inquiries of the Commissieners ikere
materially assisted, and frauds tun great ainotintWere
discovered. Therefore the Right Hon. Gentleaaan's

assertion way • not entitled to credence. It was
strhilge,- the Noble Lord observed, bow resolate the
Right Hon. Gentleman and his' Friends, were to
carry on debate., He had hoped that the debate, on
this sUbjeCt at least, was at an end beffire this even-
ing ; but the Right Hon. Gentleman and Co.
still determined to • persevere—rather more, to be
sure, in bringing forward accusations against Mini-
ters than_in adducing arguments against their mea-
sures. Among those accused indeed he understood
the Right Honourable Gentleman had thought pro-
per on a former occasion to include him--princi-
pally, as he was informed, in conseqnenceof some
appointments that were recently made in the de-
partment over which he had' the honour to. preside.
Had he been present at the time the accusation was
made• by that Right Honourable Gentleman he,
most probably should not have felt it necessary to
take any notice of, it. But he now thought it pro-
per shortly to remark upon the cases alluded to.
And first, with regard to the removal of Sir A.
Hamond from the Navy Board; the faal was, that
the Honourable Baronet bad made application for
leave.to resign before the Patent of his Appointment
to the Admiralty was actualiy made out. The ap-
plication. was acceded' to, and he had felt it
.his
duty to recommend that the Honourable. Baronet
should, as is usual in such cases, be allowed three-
fourths of his salary during life. At the same 'time
he hadto mention, that the. reason of this grant was
solely on account of the Hon. Baronet's length of
services. The Noble Lord added, that the ground of
the Hon. Baronet's application for leave to resign,
was indisposition and consequent inability to attend
to the duties of the office; but yet he was happy to
see that the Hon. Baronet was already so far reco-
vered as to be able to attend all the debates of that
House. To Sir Andrew Hamond a successor
(Captain Dickens) was appointed, in every point of
view unexceptionable; but this Gentleman being
disqualified by illijess to aft, Captains Nicholls, an
officer ox character equally unquestionable, was sub-
stituted for him; Of the other three new appoint-
ments made in the naval department the Noble
Lord declared, that so far from having any view •to
patronage, the only'desire was to procure persons
capable of an efficient discharge of duty in a branch
of service•where such efficiency was but too visibly
wanted; and of tho,e who were appointed he had.
tostate that not one was at all known to himself or
any of his colleagues in any other way than from the
reporrof their qualifications. There was a fifth ap-
pointment about to be made in his department
to which, perhaps, some part of the Right Hen.
Gentleman's censure might be pointed. That was
with regard to,Sir Charles Saxton's Office at Ports.-
mouth. That Officer's age unfitting hiM for his
present station, was about to retire, kit required
that which he thought it his duty to resist, namely,.
that he should be allowed to retain the whole of
.his
salary. Upon the retirement of that Honourable
Baronet, the Noble Lord stated his intention of re-
commending an Officer (Captain Grey) to succeed
him, his conneCtion with whom should not prevent
him from saving that he was fully qualified for the
office. With respect then to the conduct of the
Navy, the Noble Lord felt that ,the Right Hon,
Gentleman's 'imputations wee as unfounded as those
which he had thought proper to dire& against -the
proceedings of his. Noble Friend, and -the measure
betbre the House.

, Mr. ROSE tha.lited the Noble Lord for the op-
‘portunity afforded him by the allusion which be had
thotight proper to Make to the-si.lbjea, of explain-
ingthe sinecure .granted to him. He was before
disposed to do so, but he now felt it to be necesary,
and. should enter into the explanation upon a fu,
tore day. The Right Honouru)le Gentleman pa.
negyriZed the talents and public services of Sir A.
Harnond. '

Mr. S. BOURNE was astonished at the line of
' 'argument taken by the Noble Lord who spoke last
but one—namely, that because a public man held a
particalar sinecure, he should be precluded from
objecting to the estnlishment of any, further sine-
cures. Would the' Noble Lord argue, that in conse-
quence of his ,Rig'it Hon. Friend the SeCretary of
State for Foteign Affairs holding two sinecures (Mr.
Rose 'exclaimed three), and his Noble Friend'at the
Head of the Treasury holding two, they were dis-
qualified to resist the proposition of any new sine
cures? . If the Noble Lord would not contend for
that, upon what grounds could he call Upon his Right
Honourable Friend (Mr. Rose), who had got a sine-
cure; which was but a just reward for 3.0 years
.great public services, to shut his -mouth, and, say
.nothing, upon sucti a 'measure as that before the
House ? With , regard to the official conduct of the
'Noble Lord,' he did not believe that it was the in-
tention of his Right Honourable Friend to cast the
slightest• imputation upon it. But he 'could not
help stating, that he was sorry the Noble Lord did.
not, in the Administration of Office, rather a&
upon his own good judgment than follow the advice
-of others.

The A ITORAY-GENERAL commented upon
the species of experience of whiCh the Right Hon.
Gentleman on the other side (Mr. Rose) seemed to
be so very proud. This experience consisted in . a
knowledge, for
,the last qo years, of the abuses
which it was the obje& of the Bill befbre thpirouse
to correa, and yet. no adequate•measure was ever.
taken by the Right Itott Gentleman, 'or his col-
leagues, to put a stop to them. No ; the Right
Hon. Gentleman and his colleagues were reposing
on the ‘.‘ Bed of RoseS," which they' were 'now
using every endeaVour in their power to-render un-
easy to their successors. With regard to the Bill
bet Ore the House, he 'could hot conceive any reason
for the earnest opposition made to the provision tbr ap-
pointing a, part of the proposed CommiSioners' to
inquire, in this Country, into the abuses committed
in the West Indies., for he could not suppose it
possible that ady Member of Parliament would
carry his solicitude for Publi, Accountants, intro-
Awed to office through his patronage, so very far as
fo shelter the conduct of such Accountants as had
taken refuge in this Country from any investigation
whatever.

Mr. JOHNSTONE, adverting
,to the " Bed of
.Roses" alluded to by the; last Speaker, observed,
that when he brat beard the phrase he was certainly
raOler
.surprised at it. , But upon subsequent re-
}ion, seeing that the Gentlemen on one side felt
so muchregret on leaving it, and the Gentlemen on
the other side so much anxiety to get into it, he
codld not help thinking
that :there was something
iu the place mach better than 'he had at first, ima.

gined. With regard to the. crimination and re-cri--
nf nation upon. the subje& of sinecures, &c. which
the House had :i.vitnesscsd from both sides of the
House, such a praaice Might avail something
among the parties themselves, but could have no effea
for or a rainst any proposition upon the minds of
indepe nt men, or when addressed to the dispas-
sionat, 4nderstandipg of the Country. It was of
little consequence to those who were anxious for the
right to find that both parties were wrong. In the
case befor4 the House, he • thought that some. of
the proposed Commissioners would be useless; and
it was no defence for those who proposed th Bill
to make out thaf their opponents had also created si-
necures. On the contrary, whenever the present Mi-
nisters should be guilty of any thhig prodigal or ar-
bitrary, he would think their guilt, considering
their foriner professions, greater in a tenfold degree
than that of their predecessors. When in Opposi-
tion those Gentlemen were perpetually professing a
love of economy, an hatred of arbitrary power, and
a desire to ,limit the increasing patronage of the
Crown. For the fulfilment of these professions
he had looked since their accession to office. But
he had looked in vain, and had recently seen them,
from the lust of patronage, make a most extraor-
dinary use of the Prerogative* in order to dismiss
from office an old. meritorious, and highly useful
servant of the Public (Sir G. Barlow). From the
conduit- therefore of such Ministers the Honourable
Gentleman profesSed his incapacity to entertain a
hope of much public good.
Lord HO WICK, in allusion to the remarks of
an Hon. Gentleman on the other side (Mr. Sturges
Bourne), observed, that having been but a short
time in office, and being comparatively.unacquainted
with the business.of his department, he should feel it
a great presumptiofifor him to ad without taking the
advice of others.

Dr. LAwitEscE animadverted upon the obEe:va-
tions of Mr. Johnstone.

Sir W. YOUNG spoke in favour of the Bill.

Mr. ROSE vindicated the condua of the late
Administration against the charges of the Attorney-
General.

The Bill, as aniended, was agreed to, and ordered ,
to be read a third time to-morrow.

The. House, on the MOtion of Lord H. PETTY, re-
solved into a ConiMittee of Supply, to which was re-
ferred the Report of the Committee upon the Peti-
tion of Chalmers and Cowie.

Mr. W. SMITH stated the circumstances of the
case, which we have already laid before the Public,
and concluded with observing, ,that although he had
it originally in contemplation to move a grant to the
Petitioners of 35,0001. as a compensation for tho loss
they sustained—yet, in consequence of the opinion of
others, to whom he referred,, he should now move
for 25,0001. &c.

The Motion being made, Mr. LONG stated his
objections to it, deprecating the establishment of a
precedent which would serve to encourage numerous
Claims for compensation in consequence of losses
, sustained through Embargoes. The sum applied for
in this case be thought extraordinary, considering the
amount of the cargoes.
Mr.-WiLiEaronca'supPorted the Claim of the
Petitioners, to which he conceived the liberality of
the House should urge it to accede. The Peti-
tioners, it appeared, engaged in the speculation re-
ferred to at a period of great scarcity, in consequence
of an A6t of Parliament; the object of 'which was
frustrated by an embargo laid' on fourteen days af•
ter its enaEtment. Therefore the faith of Par-
liament and the honour Of Government was im-
plicated. '
A long conversation then followed, in which Lord
HENRY PETTY supported the proposition of Mr.
WM. SMITH on the ground that though the Peti-,
tioners might not be entitled to indetnnification-as a
matter of stria justice, some relief ought to be afl.
forded them by the liberality of a great nation, they
having unfortunately met with an obstruEtion to
the success of their enterprise, even after it might
have seemed to be held out to them by Parliament
that none such should be experienced. In these
sentiments
,he-was joined by Dr. LAWRENCE and
Sir JOHN NEWPORT.

Mr. BANKES, on the other hand, contended,
that the speculation in which the Petitioners had en-
gaged was merely for profit, and one for the success
of which neither the instice nor liberality of the
Country was pledged. If relief were once given in
a case of this kind, it would be impossible to say
where applications of a similar kindinight stop, and
they would fall,.of course, to be granted in every
case of embargo. If, however, any thing were to
be 'granted from the liberality of the Nation, he
thought it should not go so far as 25,0001. but should
be limited to 10,0001: or 12,0001. He accordingly
moved, that instead of the sum of 26,0001. the Re-
solution be filled up with 12,0001.
Mr. Rose and Mr. HUSKISSON supported this
opinion, when the Committee divided,
'For the original Resolution - 59
For the Amendment - • 11--48
Ordered to be reported to-morrow.