The Sun.
London, England, 1837-02-11 00:00:00

COUNTY RATES.

Mr. HIT 11 E rose for the purpose of moving for leave to
bring in a Bill oil the subject of county rates. He bad brought
in a Bill oil the subject last Session ; that Bill had been cir-
culated throughout the different counties, and he had reason
to know that it had met with the approbation of a considera-
ble number of the magistracy. The object of the Bill was,
that the rate-payers in each county should elect a body of
councillors for the administration of the county rates, and
for the regulation and control of all the expendi-
ture connected with them, consisting in number ac-
cording to the size and circumstances of the
county, if not less than 10, nor more than 24, with five
auditors, to be elected in like manner. He did not propose
in any way to interfere with the judicial department; that must
remain as at present, vested in the responsible advisers of his
Majesty, until a Bill should pass for the better administration
of justice generally. He also proposed that Commissioners
should be appointed, for the purpose of carrying the Act into
effect, and it would be left to their option whether they would
adopt the unions formed by the Poor Law Commissioners or
not. In many instances it might be desirable to do so, but in
others it might be inexpedient, particularly where the unions
embraced parishes in different counties. The Bill would in-
volve the principle of paying the officers, all and every of them,
to be appointed to carry it into effect by fixed salaries, instead
of fees. It would also be very desirable that one uniform and
efficient system of police should be established under the autho-
rity and control of the county boards ; if such were the case,
he was convinced that the expense under such improved
uniform and efficient system would be less than was the case
under the existing law. By the carrying this plan into effect,
representation and taxation would be identified. He should,
therefore, move for leave to bring in a Bill " for placing the
finances of counties under a County Board elected by the
rate-payers."
The question having been put,
Mr. E WART rose to second the motion, and contended
that if ever any social system required reform, it was that of
the local and unpaid magistracy of England. He trusted that
after this Bill should have passed, no longer would a clergy-
man be allowed to sit on the bench in the exercise of judicial
functions. Could any circumstance be more preposterous or
unseemly than that a reverend divine should be sitting on the
bench passing sentence upon a prisoner, when he ought to be
in the exercise of his pastoral duties, or offering the consola-
tions of religion to the unfortunate culprits in their cells ? Mu-
nicipal government was in strict conformity with the most an-
cient portion of the Constitution.
Colonel S IBTHO RP did not rise to oppose the introduc-
tion of the Bill • but, having read the Bill introduced by the
Hon. Member /or Middlesex last year, and he presumed the
present would be nearly of the same character, he must say
that he considered it to be of a most dangerous democratic cha-
racter. Such, he contended, was its tendency. In the first
place, he (Colonel Sibthorp) objected to power being given
to the Secretary of State to appoint Commissioners, if he
thought fit ; and, in the second place, he objected to the ap-
pointment of Commissioners at all, because he had no wish to
add to that body of locusts so denominated. He also thought
the effect of the Bill would be to increase the poor-rates, be-
cause, as he understood, all the officers were to become charge-
able on those rates. The Hon. Member for Liverpool thought
the Bill would be successful. At any rate, even if the Bill passed
that House, it had still to pass the House of Lords. Ile (Col.
Sibthorp) should resist it in every stage.
Sir EA RDL Y WILMOT had said last year, and now
expressed a similar opinion, that no persons ought to be per-
mitted to levy money without full responsibility.—(Hear.)
It was his desire, therefore, that some restriction should be
imposed on Magistrates, in order to prevent even the suspicion
of corruption. With respect to the alteration of the power
exercised at Sessions, he was of opinion that if the present
Bill were to be carried to its full extent, the consequence must
be an immediate alteration in the judicial business at Quarter
Sessions. As a Chairman of Quarter Sessions, he could
state that the judicial business was frequently carried on with
considerable difficulty, in consequence of not being able to
get a second Magistrate ; and if the other business of the
Sessions were removed, and the Court was dependant upon
voluntary attendance, the greatest possible difficulty would be
experienced in carrying oa this most important branch of the
county business. It; therefore, the Bill should pass, an
mediate attention in this respect must take place; and he
certainly thought, if such should be the case, that the most
desirable course to pursue would be to place the judicial func-
tions of the county in the hands of one officer, of the charac-
ter of a Recorder. If such an officer were appointed with this
duty only to perform, there would be this difference, that,
while the Recorders only delivered the gaols once a quarter,
this officer could hold a general sessions once a fortnight, or
once a month. They would then get rid of nearly all im-
prisonment before trial, which was most desirable, as regarded
the innocent, and would save all the expense at present occa-
sioned by imprisonment before trial of two or three months.
There was one point to which he wished particularly to call
the attention of the Hon. Members for Liverpool and Middle-
sex ; they seemed to suppose that the chief duty of a magis-
trate was to try persons and do the business of the Quarter
Sessions ; they seemed to forget that it was most essential that
a magistrate should be resident. He knew how often it hap-
pened that they were the friends of the poor, arbitrating their
differences, and settling references between contending par-
ties ; and his belief was, that where they committed one per-
son for trial—he did not mean for felony, but in cases of as-
sault and trespass—in ten cases they acted the parts of com-
mon friends and arbitrators, and put . an end to those matters,
which, but for such a benevolent course, would go to the
sessions. In fact, a magistrate was a link in the social chain,
which joined the middle with the lower class of the people.—
( Hear and cheers.) He feared that the consequence of this
Bill would be, to dissolve a connection which had been so emi-
nently successful in preserving the present tranquillity of the
country. With regard to the amount of the county rates, as
being excessive, he must say that the amount of those rates
had not arisen from the mal-administration of the magistrates,
but had been thrown upon the county by Parliament itself, and
he would say that the magistrates had done everything in their
power to reduce them. With respect to the clergy
of acting as
.
magistrates, lie had always said that it would he a matter
gratification to him if such were not the case. He should have
no objection to vote for the Bill if the lion. Member fol •
Mid-
dlesex would confine its operation to his own county as
an ex-
periment.
Colonel WOOD objected to the suggestion of the Hon.
Baronet, of making this an experimental measure as
regarded
Middlesex. He as yet saw so little in the Bill to recommend
it, that he should, unless stronger arguments were adduced in
its favour, oppose the Bill on its second reading, and take the
sense of the House upon it.
Mr. O'C 0 NNE Is L—lt was said in objection to this Bill, that
if it passed there would be a necessity to appoint a new county
Judge. Now, lie would observe, in answer to that argument,
that the system proposed worked well in Ireland. That these
persons were not quite so pure, and above all suspsiceidonbythtrhoeueslatll.
S.
out the county of Middlesex, as the Gallant Member lie;
gined, might be inferred from a resolution passed George's Hanover-square vestry, that a misappropriation ()t.
a
the public money had taken place to the extent of 11,0001.
But the objectors to the Bill of his Hon. Friend, v
were not aware that the Bill would only restore things in this
respect to the state they were in by the common law. T,l:
Bill should therefore have his support.
After a few words from Mr. SHAW, Mr. RiellAttos d
,An Mr.
A. TREVOR,

Lord J. RUSSELL believed, however, it would puzzle Hon.
Gentlemen to find a real ground of objection to the principle of
the Bill. The expenditure in these counties amounted to very
large sums. Ought not the persons contributing to it hare
a control or check over it ? The petitions from Devonshire,
Somerset, and a very remarkable one from Hertford, were
strong and unanswerable on this point. They complained that
their money was expended, without their being permitted to
have any control over the magistrates who took upon them-
selves to appropriate it. He thought that the argument made
use of by the lion. Member for Warwick, that the bench
was usually crowded when the magistrates were upon the
question of the county expenditure, whilst the attendance
dwindled to less than one half the number when the civil busi-
ness came on upon the second day, and he had only one or two
left upon the bench with him on the third day, when the crimi-
nal business came on, was, in reality, an argument in fa-
vour of the Bill of the Honourable Member for Mid-
dlesex. So far the case was against perpetuating the pre-
sent system. As to the expediency of appointing county re-
corders, he confessed he was not prepared to say more than
that it had come to his knowledge that of late there had b; en
some difficulty experienced in obtaining persons to act as
chairmen at quarter sessions, in consequence of the scarcity
of fit persons in some counties to fill the situation. To fulfil
properly its duties required not only a competent knowledge
of law, but also a degree of attention to the business of the
sessions, which every magistrate was not disposed to afford to
it. There was little doubt that this Bill, if passed, would
increase the business of the county, and render it more onerous.
He must premise now that he wished to be understood that, in
any thing he said, he did not mean to give any opinion of the
Bill in detail, which he hoped the Hon. Member for Middlesex
would endeavour to frame with such clauses as should ensure
its passing the House, and also take care that the Bill should not
be made the means of creating a number of useless and expen-
sive offices. It would be always an object, he presumed, of im-
portance to ensure that the County Council should be kept to_
gether as short a time as was possible for the due performance of
the duties confided to their care ; and that as few permanent
offices as 'possible should be created by the Bill. As to
clauses for the election of permanent magistrates, he would
observe, that upon that part of the system a great difforence
prevailed in different counties, perhaps too much savouring of
prejudice or caprice. He knew that the Duke of Wellington
had a disinclination to nominate clergymen to the magistracy,
while other lords-lieutenant were disposed to render the cleri-
cal magistrates the majority on the bench. no only wished
on this head to say that it was highly desirable there should be
more uniformity in the mode of appointing by the Fords-lien"
tenants of counties.--(Hear.) He would not recommend that
the Crown should be limited to select for the magistracy only
such persons as were renommended by the town councils
lii Ole Ors limitation would lee *cm,

DIED.
On the 3d inst., at Longwitton llall, Northumber:and, in his
79th year, James Fenwicke, Esq.
On the 6th inst., at Mansfield, Notts, Mr. Abraham Booth,
aged 77, eldest son of the late Rev. A. Booth, of Prescott-street,
London.

On the sth inst., in Cheltenham, Henry Bromfield, Esq., late of
New Basinghall-street, aged 86.
On the 2d inst., at her son's, in Broad-street-buildings, Mrs.
Hastie; aged 63.

On the Bth inst., at Edgbaston House, Birmingham, William
Francis, Esq.
On tae 2(1 ult., at 13russells, Lieutenant-Colonel Wm. Percer3l.
C. 13., forme( ly of the Rine Brigade.
On the 7th inst., at Moray-place, Edinburgh, Mary Anne Ag-
new, youngest (laughter of the late Hon. C. R. Lindsay, of tho
Bengal Civil Service, aged 11.
On the Ist inst., at her son's, in Liverpool, Mrs. Oldfield, for,
merly of Albion-place, Ramsgate, aged 74.
On the 31st ult., at Bishop's Teighton, aged 77, Charlotte, the
daughter of the Rev. W. Cooke, D.D., Dean of Ely, and Provost
of King's College, Cambridge, relict of P. J. Taylor, Esq., Op,
well House, Devon.

London ; Printed and Published by MURDO YOUNG, of S°.
11% Strand, at The Sun Office, Nn. 11-', Strand, in the camt Y
of Aliddlesex..—Saturday, February 11, 1837.