The Sun.
London, England, 1863-01-06 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, JANUARY 6, 1863.

stood would imply a censure on the visiting jus-
tice', which the noble lord expressly repudiated,
aad he therefore moved as an amendment that a
committee of magistrates be appointed to confer
with the visiting justices.
A lengthened debate ensued, in the course of
which, Sir W. HEATHCOTE, M.P., said that the
speech of Lord Cholmondeley was an entire defence
of the present system and a justification of the in-
quiry. No censure was intended whatever on the
Visiting Justices, the object of the noble earl being
to call attention to the present lax system which
had grown up in every county in England, and
which was fraught with evil. For his part he
thought that the prison discipline of the country
was in so deplorable a state that its operation as a
punishment was entirely delusive. He therefore
supported his noble friend's motion for a committee
of inquiry, which he hoped would not be refused.
Mr. ESDAIL opposed both the motion and the
amendment, on the ground that the adoption of
either must necessarily imply a censure upon the
Visiting Justices.
Mr. BONHAM CARTER supported the motion for
a committee, and pointed to the fact that so serious
had the question become in an imperial sense, that
a Royal commission had been appointed on the sub-
ject. His belief was that the sense of the severity
of punishment was gradually decreasing in the
mind of the criminal class, and that the plan of in-
flicting a long term of imprisonment, instead of a
shorter and more severe one, was pernicious in
principle and non-effective as a deterring agent.

After some farther discussion, in which Mr.
Chute, Mr. Stanley, and Mr. Sclater took part,
The Earl of CARNARVON expressed his willing-
ness to adopt the terms of the amendment, and
again expressed in the most emphatic manner that
he had no intention of casting the slightest slur on
the Visiting Magistrates, his motion being entirely
aimed at the system.
Lord H. CHOLMONDELEY expressed his intention
of dividing, because, disguise it in what way they
might, it would be considered by the county a vote
of censure.

The Court then divided, when the numbers were
For the appointment of the Committee .. 22
Against .... .... .. .

Majority
The committee were accordingly appointed, and
a quorum of three constituted, after which the
Court passed to the ordinary business of the session.

Mr. J. W. Henley, M.P., and Colonel North,

M.P., at Oxford.

At the Quarter Session; held at the County-hall
in Oxford, yesterday afternoon, before the chair-
man, the Right Hon, I. W. Henley, M.P., and a
large number of magistrates, among whom were the
other representatives of the county, Col. North and
Col. Pane, Lord Churchill, Sir H. W. Dashwood,
Capt. Fane, the Hon. J, F. T. W. Fiennes, Mr. H.
Hamersley, vice-chairman, the Warden of Merton
College, Oxford (Dr. Marsham), Col. the Hon. R.
C. H. Spencer, &c., a letter was read to the Court
from the Mayor of Oxford, proposing to place the
two Sebastopol guns now in the possession of the
corporation of that city within the enclosure in
front of the County-hall.
It may be recollected that on the capitulation of
Sebastopol a large number of guns were sent to
England. Lord Panmure, who was then Secretary
at War, offered them for distribution throughout
the country, and among many other places Oxford
became a recipient. Two of the guns were sent
there on the application of the alderman who was
then mayor, but from the date of their arrival a
series of mishaps and delays have been their fate.
At first there was a dispute about the payment of
the cost of their carriage, the guns being directed
to the Mayor of Oxford, while the applicant for
them had relinquished that office. Subsequently
the Town Council refused to go to the expense of
mounting them, and the guns were cast into a small
shed in the Town-hall yard, generally known by
the name of the City Coal-hole. A penny sub-
scription was started in order to defray the expense
of mounting, and a considerable sum was collected,
though not sufficient for the purpose. The guns
have remained in their seclusion until a few weeks
ago, when the newly elected Mayor of Oxford sent
them to a foundry in the city, and now asked the
Court of Quarter Sessions to allow them to be
placed in front of the County-hall.
The right hon. chairman explained to the Court
that the present Mayor of Oxford, soon after his
election, addressed to him (the chairman) a letter,
asking a question about placing the Russian guns,
which, until then, had not been in a very dignified
position, in front of the County-hall. He gave no
opinion about it, but directed his Worship to make
a formal application through the Clerk of the Peace.
He added that the site in question was not within
the city, but actually in the county. It would be
for the Court to deal with the application as they
thought fit. The chief question, however, which
they would have to consider was whether they
thought it desirable that such things should be
placed anywhere. (Laughter.) That was a very
large question.
Col. NORTH, M.P., said that he understood from
the Mayor's speech the other night at the Druids'
dinner that 4,000 inhabitants of Oxford had sub-
scribed for the purpose of putting up these guns.
He felt that it would be uncourteous in him, and he
should regret excessively to say one word which
should prevent the wishes of the inhabitants of this
fromcity abnedi
being
the
especial
purpose of the Mayor himself
gratified. But at the same time he could
not help expressing to the Quarter Sessions what
he knew to be the feeling of the army and navy at
large with regard to those Russian guns. There
was but one feeling, and he (Col. North), as a mem-
ber of the United Service Club, had had every op-
portunity of ascertaining that feeling. That feel-
ing was one of disgust at the manner in which those
guns had been scattered over this country. (Hear.,
It was perfectly without precedent. Notwithstanct

ing the war carried on by the Duke of Wellington
in the Peninsula there was not a French gun to be
seen in this country. They saw on the Horse Guards'
parade a
gnn which was placed there after the cam-
paign in Egypt. That gun, however, was placed
there as a work of art and a great curiosity. If it
was a thing of which they ought to feel proud no
portion of her Majesty's subjects ought to feel a
greater pride in the possession of those Russian
guns than those branches of our fellow countrymen,
the army and navy. But, without exception,
every one to whom be had spoken had expressed
the greatest contempt and disgust at their exhibi-
tion. (Hear, hear.) In the first place, the Russian
army, which was opposed to them, was as fine an
army as the world ever saw. They did their duty
gloriously towards their own Sovereign and coun-
try, and he believed that there was not a man in
either the army or the navy who embarked to re-
turn to this country who was not impressed with
feelings of the greatest admiration for the Russian
army and for the manner in which they had upheld
the honour of their country. If those guns had
been melted down and formed into something to be
erected in some sueh public place as the Place Ven-
dome, he could have understood the thing. They
had named a metropolitan bridge and other places
after their great victories. But now no Russian
gentleman could go to shoot grouse in Scotland but
whose feelings were insulted by seeing Russian
guns. The feeling of the army was that it was

against the feelings of Englishmen and brave men

The army above all were always ready and anxious

when the battle was over to shake hands with the

enemy and forget that a battle had been fought.
(Rear, hear, and cheers.) Now, with regard to

. _
Russia, in the very first month of the war the Tiger
.. .

frigate was taker. Where were the guns of the
Tiger? Were they so scattered over Russia that an

Englishman could not go to that country without

seeing them ? So far from that being the case,
within the last six months the Emperor of Russia
had forbidden the anniversary of any great battle,
and he had done so for this reason —that, the battle
over, he was anxious that everything that had
taken place should be forgotten. (Hear, hear.)
Only about a month ago a friend
of his (Colonel
North), and a person, too, of high military rank,
had returned from Russia. He asked that person
what was the feeling in Russia with regard to Eng-
land, especially after our campaign. He said, "11