The Sun.
London, England, 1839-07-13 00:00:00

THE NATIONAL PETITION.

ATTWOOD then rose to bring forward the
motion of which he had given notice on the sub-
ject of the National Petition. He thanked the Noble
Lard, the Secretary of State, for his kindness
in proposing to the House to suspend the
other Orders of the Day, in order to enable him to take
precedence to bring the question of which he had given
notice, under their consideration. He thanked the House
for its kindness in accedieg to the proposition of the Noble
Lord, and he thanked it still more, that on the 14th of
June it had' done him the honour to listen to his
humble address with patience —( Hear, hear.) He was
satisfied that that confidence and kicduess on the pelt of
the House would not be lost upon the people of England,
or upon the hundreds of thousands of persons who had signed
the petition, and of whose upright and honest labours, and
of whose interests and wishes, he was n;w the zealous,
the humble, and, he feared, the too feeble advocate. The
petition which he had the honour to present on the 14. h
June he then read to a certain extent ; but lie thought it
his duty to state a portion at least of what he had then stated.
That great petition, unparalleled in the Parliamentary 1-lis-
-tory- of—England, was occasioned by the long suffering.
the wrongs and miseries of the working classes—not only
of the working classes and the workmen, but of the in.
dustrious classes generally, the merchants, the ma-
nufacturers, the tradesmen, the farmers, and the labourers.
He did not shrink from the avowal that his'petition, front
its very commencement, had his most humble but cordial
support. Ills opinions were deep-rooted, and unalterable,
that for the last twenty years the industrious classes had
not had common justice, or common humanity shown to
them. Those in Birmingham bad presented many petitions
year after year to the House,but they have been disregarded,
and by some strange fatality the House had refused to listen
to their prayers. They had refused to listen to them in
1816, 1819, and 1825, as well as upon many other occa-
sions when the industrious classes had complained of bitter
grievances. Tl.e Members of that House themselves
heing is the midst of comfort, and far removed from
the tents of the stern necessities that afflicted the
industrious classes, they could have no idea of their
suffsrings, and attributed their excitement to some fac-
tious delusion, and to agitation ; and though they told
the House again and again that theirs was real misery.
The Ilouse thought proper to turn a deaf car to the entail-
ings and the cries of the masses of the community. -Much
as he regretted that—and no ratan regretted it more—he
had often said, that if the House had then opened its ears
and softened its heart to the applications of the people, in-
stead of their having been for the last 20 years the most
discontented, and most miserable people on earth they would
have been the most happy and most comfortable of any nation
in Europe ; and this happiness might have been afforded
to them without any injustice to any individual. But un-
happily, in consequence of that House having been com-
posed of Gentlemen and Noblemen of the highest rank, and
possessing the greatest wealth, and by their station
so far removed from the lower classes of the people as
to be unacquainted with their wants; they had legislated
in the dark, and thereby lcfc them in a state of ineressine
suffering. This having been their situation, the House
could not be surprised that their sufferings had generated
discontent. Could the House imagine that the people of
England, whose forefathers had been the glory of surround.
ing nations and the envy of the world, and justly so, be-
cause people better fed or better clothed could not have
been found on the- face of the earth, that the people who
had thus been borne down by sufferings should have be-
come discontented?—could it be surprised at his having pre-
sented a petition signed by 1,285,000 of the people com-
plaining of their severe sufferings ? He should be sorry if, in
bringing forward the claims of those people, he should be
tempted to use language other than that which became
a gentleman and a patriot, because he was speak-
ing. before other gentlemen who no doubt had their
feelings, and in their actions meant as justly as himself.
Bat whatever might have been the intentions of the
House—and he did not mca not say they had been bad—
the effect of what had been done had not been beneficial.
Well, in 1829, when t, is agitation had commenced, his
townsmen had applied to him. He was a man by
co meats given to change, or who desired ex-
treme measures ; therefore, he said to them on that
occasion—let them try the tree of the ancient Constitution,
and see whether that would not bring forth the wholesome
and necessary fruit. They did wait, and they did try
what could he done in the late House of Parliament in
1829. Unhappily for that House—unhappily for the
people—and more unhappily still for the safety of
this country. that. House had disregarded the prayer
of, the people. They had demanded that the means
of the industrious classes should be lifted up so as to be
adequate to their burthens, or that their burthens should
be, reduced to their means. The House told them they
were idle, and desired them to get back to their burthens.
They were told that some of them kept four-wheeled car-
riages, and were better off than they ought to be. Then
it was that they formed a Political Union, from which
the petition which be had presented on the 14th of
June had originated.—( Hear, hear, hear.) But although
the preitiOns of the people had for a long time beer, so
utt ely unattended to, he could not deny that there was
virtue in the House of Commons, because the people had
certainly succeeded in carrying the Reform Bill through it:
But what had been the fruit of the Reform Bill ? The
first fruit it bore was the Irish Coercion Bill, and the next
was one more odious than any measure which had been
passed since the Norman conquest—he alluded to the New
Poor Law Bill. He would not say a word with respect to
the Municipal Reform—it had greatly disappointed
him. The
people were dissatisfied, and ho knew
no remedy but further reform—( Hear, hear)—his
rooted conviction was that there was no safety
for the people, nor security for either the Lords or the
Crown, unless there was some progressive Reform. The
town of Birmingham began the agitation in 1829,. but in
1832 they cased agitation. After the passing of the
Reform Bill, that large town sunk to rest like an infant on
the breast—( Laugh er)—they waited until three sessions
of the Reformed Parliament had passed without there
being the slightest hope of any amelioration in the condi.
tion of the people. They waited until 1837, in which
year many friends availed upon him to take the lead in
procuring reform. He at all times was unwilling to be
dragged into a prominent situation ; but feeling that
the demands of the people were just, he promised
to go along with them.—( Hear, hear) In that year
all parties—Whigs, Tories, and Radicals—came to him
and said, that as Lord Melbourne's Administration had
come in, it was better to wait and see what he would do.
He knew nothing of Lord Melbourne, but trusting to his
manly character, they again ceased all agitation—vii tually
they abandoned it, and in the meantime no less than
three deputations waited upon the Noble Lord de-
manding that people should have the means of liv-
ing upon the fruits of their labour. They were
told the men of Birmingham were not England ; but
they said they would prove the men of Birmingham

were England. He (Mr. Attwood) cared not how or by
what measures the people were relieved provided they were
relieved. He would feel as grateful to see them relieved
by the measures of the Right Hon. Bart. the Member fur
Tarnavorth, or the Noble Lord, as he would by measures of
his own suggestion. They pointed out to Lord Melbourne
and the Chancellor of the Exchequer the means by which
they might give prosperity to the country under the pre-
sent Constitution without further change. Lord Mel-
bourne had reminded him that he had frequently brought
the subject of the revision of the standard of value under the
attention of the House of Commons, but that the House had
shown an unwillingness to attend to it. He then stated to
Lord Melbourne they would endeavour to change the
House of Commons; and so in the winter of 1837 he went
home to his honest friends and told them the result of that
last effort to make the ancient Constitution of the country
give shelter and protection to the country. He told them
not to endeavour to touch the ancient framework of the
Constitution—not to touch the greet principles of the
Crown, Lords, and Commons, and he doubted not but that
they would ultimately obtain that justice and protection
which had been deuied them by the Government. That
as the engine of this great petition. His friends in the
winter of 1837 crowded around him again as they
had dune in 1829. He had said to them that he knew
they had %irate, intellect, and knowledge, but that he did
riot know the people of England were with them, and that
he would go to another part and see if other men thought
with them, and were determined to act in the same spirit
Accordingly he went to Glasgow for the purpose of trying
the feelings of the men of Scotland, and that was the first
political meeting he had ever attended out of Bir-
mingham. He had never been an agitator—lie had
never been a man wishing to excite or push on the
public mind beyond the extent justice required.
When he saw the miseries of the people in Glasgow, be
said, " We have how proof we are not alone—we have a
right to interfere, and we have a right by every legal and
peaceful means to demand from the Commons of Eng-
land all the rights and liberties cur forefathers bad"
If they succeeded, and he hoped they would, they might
commit errors. When they did succeed, he did not say
that his hope would be very confident. Errors might then
be committed as they were committed now, and this
House having gone to one extreme, a House created by
Universal Suffrage might very probably go into another
extreme. But after watching this state of the country
with snore attention and more labour than most Honourable
Members had given to the subject, he believed that
there were no dangers and no miseries that the
people of England ought not to endure in preference
to submitting to the cruel and murderous operation
which had pressed for twenty •years together on the
industry, and honour, and sectirity of the country. It'
be thought they were to sit down patiently and submit
to these fluctuations, these " hot and cold fits," as an
How. Member had called them the other night—if he
thought -this • was -to be the destiny of England, and as
he showed in print twenty years ago it would be—but
if he thought there was no remedy, the surest remedy
that humanity could devise ought to be adopted to pre-
vent the degradation of Englishmen at home, and the
certain degradation of England abroad. He (Mr. A.)
never uttered any sentiment derogatory to the law,
quite the contrary. He never uttered any sentiment
derogatory to the Church, to the privileges of the House,
or to the aristocracy. All he had claimed was the right
of living by hard labour. The 1,200,000 persons whom
he now represented said they had a right to live by honest
labour—that the fluctuations which had taken place had
given them short seasons of doubtful prosperity and long
seasons of real adversity. They said that, seeking and
inquiring into the causes of the national misery, they could
. find no cause in nature or providence—they said that
, the Almighty had been kind and beneficent to England
above all other nations of the. earth—that be had
given it a heroic people, the most intellectual
, and talented people on the earth—that he had given
; it a fine soil and good climate, and every blessing of rivers
and harbours ; and yet they said they endured every misery
after twenty-two years of profound peace; they therefore
r asked tile right of living by their labour, and if that should be
r refused, they dem tndcd their ancient rights and liberties.
The petition was signed by 1,200,000 men ; there might
be some women, but, he believed, having attended to
and watched the subject, that one million of men had signed
their names, with their own hands, to the petition; there-
fore, they were capable of writing ; they were the
eh e of the working classes—(Hear, bear, bear)—
they were not vagabonds and thieves, as many
w: re apt to call those who attempted to alter the laws.
If they were, and their complaints were unfounded, it would
show the dreadful state in which England was placed,
when a million of men who could write their own names
could be got to put their hands to a notorious lie. If
these men could be taugl.t to believe that they were
miserable when they were happy, they would have
al rived at a 'nest disastrous state of things. In his mind,
a petition like the present, signed by upwards of a million
of souls, showed that there was great misery in
' the people of England which wanted redress. He
trusted that the House would hot treat this pe-
tition as the petition of workmen, because lie
' believed the whole of the middle classes were with them.
Ice al:uding to the middle classes he did not refer to men with
Small fortunes, and small fundholders, or those who had re-
tired from trade, but he meant the productive classes, the mer-
chants, the farmers, the traders, and the manufacturers.
11J was perfectly convinced that the petition spoke the
feelings of nine out of ten persons of this description. This
fact could not be displaced, that no positive distress in
trade or agriculture ever reached the labouring trader or
agriculturalist that did not roach their employer. If, there-
fore, he showed that 1,000,000 of labourer, were distressed,
might it not with equal truth be said their employers were
equally so. There was no doubt some prosperity left in
Eeglarel, but generally speaking the merchant and the
manufacturer acre as discontented as the workmen
w, re. The merchant, indeed, dare not confess his
situation. So long as the merchant had his last
10,000/. pride made him bold, when it was gone, despair
made him bold; hence it was all boasting and do
fusion, a whited sepulchre, outside all apparently
prosperous and happy, but within a charnel house
of care, anxiety, misery, and despair. The merchants
or manufacturers of England, if this question were put to
them rightly—would answer rightly—" Why we don't
complain ; men without capital certainly are in bad con-
dition, but men with capital can do pretty well; profits
are not as large as we wish, but still we can go on." But
let the House reflect on this case : —six months ago a
bank at Liverpool reveeled its affairs, and had on its books
twe bad debts of 800,0001. Now, if those two
houses had been asked, before this disclosure, they dared
net have c ,mplained—they (tired not have said trade was
bad—for if they had they would have been asked, " Where
then does all this enormous wealth come from—these im-
mense factories—these new houses ?" and if the truth had
been declared they would have been ruined instanter. Ho w
little then could professions of merchants and manufacturers
be depended on—whose distress was really as great as their
workmen's. He ( Mr. T. Attwood) had been bred up in
scenes so calamitous ; hence, be had directed his atten-
tion to the subject, and he did not scruple to assert, as he
hail before stated, that the masters suffered more than their
men.—( Hear.) There was a great deal said about
profit-mongers drinking the blood of labour-mongers,
but he affirmed the every merchant an f manufacturer in
the country was half ruined before they could possibly
touch the wages of the workmen. When once the profit
of the manufacturer was annihilated his capital was also
annihilated, for to hen he tried to call in his capital he could
only do so at a ruinous loss ; so that if he stood still be
was ruined, and whether he advanced or receded he was
equally ruined. Take the case of a manufacturer with
20,0001. capital invested: finding hientelf making no
profit for three years, one after the other; suppose
he tried to sell the bueiness, a purchaser, when hear-
ing that there was no profit, would not give more
than 3,000/. for it, aid this was the position of four-fifths
of all the merchants and manufacturers in England.
Therefore he asserted, that 'representing 1,200,000 work-
ing teen of England, he represented the whole productive
classes of England, who having for the last twenty years
been disappointed in their just expectations, now claimed
further Reform. They first demanded Universal Suffrage.
Ile would not go into the political argument, bat would
merely say, that he believed Universal Suffrage was the
aecierit practice of our Saxon ancestors, and after the
Norman conquest, that it had woiked well—that it would,
if again adopted, work equally well—for that it would
produce a large and liberal spirit of legislation—
render the working clases_ contented, and there-
fore attached to the aristocracy and the Crown.
Next they required Annual Parliaments. All he knew
was that the Bill of Settlement, which was the birth-
right of the people, and that was a serious word, a word of
great moment, the Act of Settlement declared that Annual
Parliaments were the birthright of the people, therefore it
was that his constituents called for Annual Parliaments ;
but they also claimed Vote by Ballot. Now, be (Mr.
Attwood) contended, and Hon. Members would agree
with him, that :t waggood logic that when the Constitu-
tion and the Bill of Rights guaeanteccrfreedone of election
wherever the Constitution gave a right, it gave the
Means of exercising it. If he showed that they
could not use freedom of election, he would say that it
became a constitutional right, which the Queen herself had
the power to confer without the interference of Parliament.
Then, again, his honest friends claimed the wages of
attendance for Members of Parliament. They found that
to be the anci nt law of England, and there were
many instances of burgesses praying to be relieved from
the payment of Members, because the tax pressed heavily
upon them. His friends were of opinion that unless the
Members of that House were paid, they could not have
that class of men introduced into the House, men of that
station and character which would enable them to be
competent representatives of the wants and wishes of the
Commons of England. They thought that the Commons
of England ought to be the Commons of England—that
it ought to be a House of little Lords on the one side,
and big Lords on the other—(Laughter)—but literally and
truly the Commons; not gentlemen of large property, who
did their duty so far as that class was concerned, but were
utterly unable to legislate for the industrious classes. He
contended that men born in the clouds, and living in the
clouds, could not understand the mere interests, and wants,
and necessities of people living on the eaeth, therefore he
thought, they should pay the wages of attendance, in
order that the Commons of England might send into that
House men accustomed to the calamities of the people,
and who would better represent the wants and interests of
the great mass of the people. They thought that foxes ought
not to represent geese—that wolves ought not to represent
sheep—and that hawks ought not to represent pigeons.
lie believed that the man whose bread, and the bread of
whose children, depended upon his labour, had as great a
stake in the country as the Duke of Cumberland,—( Hear,
hear.) He hoped they would consider the petition favour-
ably—they had extended their kindness to him on the 14th
June. Let them take the petition earnestly into
their consideration, and it would not be thrown away
upon the people of England. The people generally
complained that their petitions had been neglected—that
they had met with inattention, but upon the present occa-
sion he trusted they would consider that the petition was
the result of upwards of twenty years' suffering, and that
the petitioners only cried for Universal Suffrage after they
had seen, the total failure of the 101. franchise—that fruits

which was so fair to the eye, but which had turned to dust
and ashes in the mouth He had always been an advocate
for peaceable and legal efforts to obtain justice for the
working classes, and he trusted they would determinately
say that the petition was entitled to every consideration.
Ou the 14th of June he took the opportunity of stating
that he had never encouraged physical farce or any other
force. He only said, " Unite together' and you will by
legal and constit rtional means obtain all that was wanted
_by such means they mtwt ultimately obtain the fruit of
liberty and justice. He had always deprecated violence of
all kinds, and he was thankful to the House for the oppor-
tunity they had afforded him on the 14th Rue of stating so.
He could not find that there had beer' a single life lost—
not a gun had been fired, and he was justified in saying that
the mass of the people of England although discontented
were net disaffected—although miserable, were not desirous
of any change injurious to the Constitution or injurious
to the useful and beneficial privileges of the Crown.
But they were desirous of a change, and he should not be
doing his duty if he hesitated in saying that he thought they
would have a change, and a very great change too. God
forbid that dire necessity should compel them to effect that
change by unlawful means; but 1,200,000 hearts that felt,
and 1,200,000 heads that thought, ought not to be
disregarded. Nothing would satisfy them but seme
large and generous measure. They also hoped that
that measure would be lasting—that they would
not have prosperity tc-day and a lversity to-morrow.
If the hands of the people were not to be set free from
their trammels--aif they were not to have the benefit of
earning their bread by the sweat of their brow, and
hundreds of thousands were compelled to beg for labour
and then to be denisd bread—if that was to be the condition
of the people of England, it was his ( Mr. A.'s) duty to tell
the House, with all due deference and respect, that it was
his rooted conviction that the people of England would not
submit to i t, and that there was no army in this world
capable of putting them down. The minds of Hon. Mem-
bers were, perhaps, better stored with history than his
own, but he could not avoid call:ng to their recollection
the situation ef- Louis XVI. in 1787 and 1789. When
Louis was asleep ruin was stalking through the land. In
1787 an individual who travelled through Burgundy and
Champagne, found almost every gentleman's house burnt to
the ground, and their owners murdered. Two years after-
wards the Bastile fell. Charles the Tenth was husting in the
wood of Fontainbleau, when the Revolution took place,
anti the crown dropped from his head. The crown
of James the Second was shaken from his head.
What was the position of the Queen of England at this
hour ? There was no one more attached to her than him-
self, for he considered her the cement which held society
together, and which enabled all classes to meet together
for mutual protection. In his mind the sanctity of the
Crown was above all other human considerations. But
the Crown of England was like other Crowns. It rested
upon public opinion, and whenever public opinion should
desert it, the sceptre and throno would be nothing. Let
them look at the people. They were loyal, but they were
discontented. If that discontent was to be allowed to con-
tinue and to increase, what would be the result? He
would ask Hon. Members whether they would not use
their endeavours to allay that feeling ? Would they wait ?
Would they shut their eyes and their ears till the enemy
had literally entered into that House. A social volcano
was opening under their feet, and they could not tell when
it would burst. The little accident of a madman or of a boy
firing a gun at Birmingham the other day might have pro-
duced the most frightful consequences all over the country.
He felt it to be his duty, therefore, to urge on Members of
that House to support his going into a Committee upon
this petition. The petitioners complained of many inju-
ries. They said they had been oppressed in many ways—
that the blessings of God had been turned into afflictions
instead of blessings. They to'd the House there must be
a change. They said respectfully, but constitutionally,
" there shall be a change, if they can by ally legal and
peaceful means produce that change." Now he would say
they could. The danger was great; but when millions
became discontented it was likely they should gather their
masters with them into their own vineyard, and then they
might erect walls around that vineyard which it would be
utterly impossible for any power in this country to go against.
There were 700,000 electors in England who elected the
great bulk of the Members of that House, and those electors
were of the middle classes—none of them of the lower.
If the question came to an issue, the House must not de-
ceive itself, because if it were either to be a moral or a
physical issue, the House was not to suppose that the mid-
dle classes would join the aristocracy of the country, hut
might be sure that they would throw themselves into the
ranks of the working classes. When anarchy became spread
throughout tile country, if choice did not, necessity would
compel the .piddle to join the working classes. He knew that
English people were aristocratic in their characters. The
very working classes were so, and only let them live and
they would be content. God forbid, that he should be in-
strumental in altering that character ; his desire was to
place the aristocracy on a foundation that never could be
shaken. But what did the working classes say? They
said the House gave them the Corn-laws to make scarce
the corn; they gave them the money-laws to make
scarce the money. But 1,200;000 of her Majesty's
suljects now said that these things should be rectified ;
and he verily belieted that they had the power within
themselves to rectify those great wrongs without illegality
and without crime. When he formed a Political Union
he took the opinion of Sir Charles Wetherell upon the
step. That excellent man, because he never would enter-
tain an unmerited opinion of a man, merely because he
was opposed to him in politics—that excellent man and
great lawyer said—" If I say this political union is illegal,
I will say that which I do not think is true ; if I say it is
legal, I may probably lead honest men astray, because
I think the difficulties before them are so great that -it
,A, ill be morally impossible to work out the principle with.
• out trenching en the law.—( Hear, hear ) I therefore
' say, I will take no fee and give no opinion."—( Laughter
and cheers.) That statement, however, had been a most
profitable opinion to him (Mr. A ) because he had
guarded his steps accordingly. He saw those difficul-
ties growing up, and both lie and the peti-
tioners were sensible of their surrounding them,
nevertheless he was satisfied they could command
victory peacefully and legally ; and if in no other way, could
command it by influencing the votes of the people who
sent the Members to that House. They might not do it
immediately, but the time must come when they would.
But he did not want them to do it in that way if it could be
avoided. He however wished to know from the House
what it was, if anything, which they meant to afford to the
petitioners. If ,they. would. not go the whole length—if
they would not give Universal Suffrage, would they give
Household Suffrage.? • If they would not give Annual
would they give Triennial Parliaments? If they would do
hotline to increase the liberty of the people, would they
do nothing to increase their prosperity? The petitioners
said the House had the power to repeal the Corn-law ; it
had the power to repeal the Poor-law ; it had the
power to repeal the Money-law I Would it do
that? If it would, it would greatly relieve the op-
pressed, without doing wrong to any one. He would,
therefore, entreat the House to go into this Committee with
him, in order to remove the sutihrings of the petitioners.
lie fur one never could believe that the rights of the pe-
titioners could be obtained till they had LTaivers.d Sur
(rage; but though Hon. Members might not go so far as
he would go, yet, by going into Committee, they might
do much to produce contentment. But if they would
not dm that, if they would concede nothing in favour of
the petitioners, they must then be considered as placing
themselves in a situation hostile to liberty and prosperity.
It the petitioners were only to be reproached, if they
were only to be called the friends of anarchy, when in
truth they only wanted to be able to work and to live like
honest workmen in this great nation, according to the
practice of thousand years, and who had more right to an
a
ample trade for honest labour than the Queen to her Crown,
what was to be expected? When they approached the House
with 1,200,000 tongues, was the House to remain indiffe-
rent, or was it to be supposed that the people could remain
contented, when nothing was given to thorn but delusive
hope to-day and positive injury to-morrow ?He felt grate-
ful for the attention the House had afforded to him, The
five points of the petition lie most cordially suplorted, be-
cense Le thought they ought to be granted. He verily
believed they must and would be granted. He only wished
he were equally sure they would redeem the fruits that
were expected from them.—(llsar.) It was said there
were other points insisted upon out of doors, but he knew
nothing of them; lie only went upon the five points in the
petition. If misfortune should arise from unregarded in-
jury, and if it should be thought proper in any quarter to
have recourse to violent instead of lenient measures, he
hoped he did not overstep his duty when he expressed his
conviction that those Ministers, or that House, which
followed a Pulignac course would do wrong. (Cries
of " Hear, bear, hear.") Though the little finger
of a constable might compel the obedience of a hundred of
the bravest men who ever walked, yet the House must not
believe there was not to be a limit to that. Men were not dis-
posed to throw away their own lives, nor were they dis-
posed to take the lives of others. But if dead bodies
should be carried about the streets—if rage and impru-
dence should usurp the place of prudence and of leniency,
rage would beget rage, and there would not only be battle
enough in England, but there would be a complete revo-
lution before the most ingenious Ministers could have time
to look round themselves. Ile made not this statement in

the character of a threat, because there was nobody-more
desirous to avoid discord than himself; but having had the
opportunity of addressing the House he felt he should net
discharge his duty if he did not remind Hon. Members that
such might be the consequence ; and if imprudence were
to dictate the proceedings, he certainly did dread the
direful consequences, The minds of men in Bristol, in
Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool, and all over the
country, were at this moment in such a state of excite-
ment that if there should be the least outbreak, it must
lead to a most serious and universally simultaneous one.
By looking to a few of the towns from whence signatures
to this national petition had come, the list would very cu-
riously show how the names were connected with the ex-
isting state of distress. It formed a very good index to
the poverty and discontent of the people. Even London,
which was remarkable for its soporific character—( Laugh-
ter)—was not quite asleep on this occasion. It had been
alive, to be sure, when Sir Francis Burdett was taken to
the Tower, but it had been asleep nearly ever shim—
( Hear, hear, and laughter.) Nevertheless, on this occa-
sion it did in a degree wake up, and he did sincerely trust
that the result would be satisfactory. From all towns there
was a large number of signatures, but most from
the manufacturing toe ns, and having said so much, he
would thank the House again for the attention he had re-
ceived ; he was not aware that by enlarging he should do any
good ; his rnxious wish was that there should be harmony
and a conciliatory feeling between that House and the peo-
ple.—( Hear, hear.) He begged to move that the House
do resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House, for
the purpose of taking into consideration the petition called
the National Petition, presented on the 14th of June.
Mr. FIE LDEN seconded the motion. This petition
was signed by a vast number of her Majesty's subjects, and
demanded the respect of the House. The question was,
whether the allegations of the petitioners were true or
false. Believing that many of them were strictly true
—believing that the sufferings of the petioners were such as
they described—and believing that the consequences that
might follow a disregard of this petition might be very
erious, he felt it to be his duty to support the prayer of the

EVENING EDITION.

petition. One of the grounds put forward by the ppti-
tioners was that they were bowed down with taxation, and
he believed nobody in the House would deny that that
ztatement wns true.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL said there was one part of
the speech of the Hon. Member for Birmingham which
was extremely gratifying to him ; it was that part of
it in which he denied any concurrence with those
who counselled arming and the use of physical force.—
(Cheers.) He must say that he was gratified, but not at all
surprised, at hearing such language from the Hon.:Member
because it was in accordance with all that had ever fallen
from hint, either in that House or elsewhere. At the
sam t time the Hon. Member must be aware that many of
those who had been instrumental in promoting the petition
—a h cli he had assumed, he (Lord Jchn Russell) thought
falsely, to be a national petition—many- of the promoters
of the. petition, he roust be aware, had gone round the
country, from one place to another, preaching sedition;
counselhng violence—( Hear, hear)—and inciting the peo-
ple to appeal to arms against the law. They owed it to
the good sense of the people generally that they had not
listened to such exhortations.—( Cheers.) A certain
number of them bed been led away by the inciting and in-
sidious language cf these intemperate men, and had put
themselves in opposition to the law, an every peaceable
subject of the realm. The Hen. Gentleman had looked
only at the political results of the measures advocated by
him and embodied in the petition. He wished to speak
with every respect of all these who had not given
way to violence or intemperate or inciting language. lie
wished to speak with respect of all those who considen•
tiously hoped for good results from the adoption of Uni-
versal Suffege, the Vote by Ballot, the No-qualification
for Members, &c. But he conceived that at the bottom of
all these opinions, and of the Hon. Gentleman who fitly re-
presented these opinions, there was a most grievous error.
The Hon. Gentleman supposed that if there was a certain
distribution of political power—if they bad a sort of re-
presentation formed in a certain manner, and laws
enacted with certain provisions, that they could establish
endurirg and lasting prosperity in the whole community.
The Hen. Member wished for Universal Suffrage, because
the Parliament could not give prosperity to-day and ad-
versity tomorrow. Ile (Lord J. Russell) conceived there
was no form of Government which could insure to a whole
community a perpetual and lasting state of prosperity—that
in a country, moreover, which depended very much upon
commerce and manufactures, there was no mode of pre-
venting that state of low wages or that distress which at
all times affected those who were at the bottom of the scale
in the community, or which would prevent those alternate
fluctuations from prosperity to distress which occurred in
every community. Now let them look to that country
which was sometimes held out, and he thought very falsely
held out, as a country enjoying, in politics or its social
state, greater advantages than our own—he meant the
United States of America. There they had generally
Universal Suffrage. But would any man say that the
United States was altogether free from those fluctua-
tions?—( Hear, hear)—they enjoying, as they did enjoy,
an advantage which we could not—that they had immense
tracts cf fertile land upon which their population, which
could not subsist in towns, might always find refuge—an
advantage which we did not possess. Could any man say
that, in the United States of America they were free from
those evils. Now, with respect to those views of the
Right Hon. Gentleman, which would hive an increased
quantity of money and a largo paper credit. There had
been publiehe'd in America, as a sort of manual for the
people, a pamphlet, called the " Detection of Forged
Money," which showed there were not less than 600 kinds
of forged money in cireula ion. Could there be a greater
evil than having a currency of this kind, by which the poor
were exposed to have their whole means taken front them
by means of such forged moncy,and that forged money being
perhaps a consequence of some over speculation and an at-
tempt to relieve the distress of the community. Therefore
it was not by Universal Suffrage, nor by any form of suffrage,
that laws could be obtained which should secure this lasting
prosperity to the people. Now with respect to the peti-
tion itself. He wished to make a few observations with
respect to it, and with respect to the conduct of those who
had been active in promoting it. The Hon. Member had
said there were more than 1,000,000 of signatures.
lie ( Lord John Russell) was not surprised that
1,000.000 signatures should have been collected, con-
sidering the industry which had been manifested in
their collection. At one time he believed that
Msjer Cartwright obtained no less than 3,000,000 of sig-
natures to petitions asking for Universal Suffrage. But
as to this number of 1,000,000. When they spoke of the
representation, and said there were 1.000,003 of per-
sons having the right of voting, they were told that was a
very small, and insufficient, and contracted number, who
were eatitled to the choice of representatives. But vet
when there were a million of signatures collected by this
means, they were asked to consider this as the petition-of
the whole people at large, and it was even called
on the motion " The National Petition." He
denied that the petition represented the sentiments and
opinions of the people at large.---( Hear, hear.) He be.
licved the great majority of the people did not ask for the
the objects contained in the petition.—( Hear, hear.) His
belief was that the great majority of the people, divided as
they were in political opinion, did not think that advantage
would result to them from the adoption of these measures,
and that they would be alarmed at the prospect of the pe-
tition being granted ; and the House agreeing with the
Hon. Gentleman to go into Committee with the view of
establishing by enactment the object of this peti-
tion, would create alarm and dismay throughout the
country—( Hear, hear)—not merely among persons of
property of the aristocracy, but more so among the labour-
ing classes than any other portion of the commueity.—
s (Hear; hear.) He now begged to call the attention of
the House for a few moments to the statement of fact
male in the petition—a statement which the Hon. Mem,
her for 13irminghant seemed disposed to trust to. The
petitioners stated themselves to be bowed down under a
load of taxes, which, notwithstanding, fell greatly short
of the wants of their rulers, that capital brought no profit
and labour no remuneration, that the warehouses of the
pawnbrokers were filled, that the workhouse was crowded,
and the manufactory deserted. Now he (Lord J. Russell)
entirely denied that that was correct.—( Hear, (rear.)
And he would appeal to the statement made by his Right
Hon. Friend the other night, with respect to the Savings
Banks of the country, which in the last year showed a
balance, over the preceding one, of more than a million
in favour of the sums vested. Now, was such a fact com-
patible with the statement that the warehouses of the
' pawnbrokers were at present full ?—( Hear, hear.) Was
it not a proof that there were a number of artificers and
labourers, who were not only receiving capital wages, but
who were at the same time looking forward to the support
of their families, and the increase of their small capital,
a:,d who were from year to year increasing those sums?
by the exertion of their industry, and by submitting to
privations of any thing which would prevent them from
Imaking these accumulations. Instances were quoted at
the early pant of the Session, of the Savings Bank of
Glasgow, a manufacturing town. He (Lord J. Russell)
had teen an account of the Savings Bank of Devonshire,
an agricultural county; and both these accounts showed
a very great advance in the amount of money deposited,
and were comeletely decisive as to the want of proof
of ti•e description given in the petition. Considering this
petition to be a very grows exaggeration of the state of
I the country, and of any distress which might prevail in the
country, he was not about to deny that in a country like
this, depending so much upon commerce, upon credit,
I upon
manufactures, and upon various ether circumstances,
I there was at this time, as he was afraid there always would
Ibe at times, numbers of industrious and sober working
men, whose means were exceedingly scanty, and whose
situa'ion could not be looked at without pain and commi-
seration. But he denied that this was a fair representa-
tion of the state of the people, and he thought they ought
wither to look at the other measures which the House was
asksd from time to time to adopt for the relief of distress.
The lion. Member for Birmingham, and the Hon. Member
for Oldham, who had seccnded the motion, seemed to
suppose, as they always did, that the House was bound
to lieten to their own particular remedies, and that
if they were not listened to, the people were
aggrieved. ( Hear, hear.) He did not deny that the Hon.
Members might think these measures for the good of the
people, but he did deny that, beause they did not once
concede to their opinions without considering whether they
were sound or not, that they, therefore, refused that which
was just and would be beneficial.—( Hear, hear.) The
litn. Member for Birmingham had always held that the
one measure which would give prosperity to the country
was an alteration in the standard of value, and a very great
increase in the quantity of paper money, and the Hon.
Member held that opinion, having seen before that year
from which he said our tnisFortunes commenced 22 years
ago, and having seen prosperity prevail for some years,
when there was a great rfflux of paper money in the coun-
try, he held it to a certain degree as justified by the ex-
perience of these years. Did the lion. Member believe
that all those who advocated Universal Suffrage would agree
with him in that opinion? that they would agree to that
change in the standard—to that immense quantity of paper
money issuing from the banks ? This, perhaps, might
enable the people to receive 30s. instead of 15s. for wages,
but in the same proportion would they have to pay for
every leaf and every article which they consunled.—
( Hear, hear.) He would read to the House the opinion
of some Hon. Gentlemen who were members of what was
called the " General Convention," Mr. Fear us O'Con-
nor, •Mr. Lovett, Mr. Collins, Mr. Frost, and many
others. They spoke of the " power and the cor-
rupt: influence of laver money"—(Hear, hear, hear)—
of the " corrupt system of banking"---of ibe " fraudulent
bits of paper which the State has dignified with the name
of money"—(Hear)—that " through its instrumentality
our rulers had warred with freedom both at home and
abroad ;" and that it had " generated a species of dis-
honesty unknown to our forefathers." He might employ
some minutes in endeavouring to show the House that the
Hon. Gentleman's opinions of the value of paper money
were totally unfounded—what the issue of this quantity of
paper money, while it committed a fraud upon every cre-
ditor in the country, would in fact be one of the :swans by
which the labourers themselves would be defrauded.--
(Hear, hear.) But he need not enter into any argument
of that sort, because those who had signed for Universal
Suffrage were much more strongly opposed with respect
to that to which the Hon. Member for Birmingham took
as the cure of all our evils. He asked the House, therefore,
not to agree to the proposal of the Hon. Member. The
Hon. Member, and those who went with him, who fancied
that Universal Suffrage would place the labouring classes
in a state of prosperity, were labouring under a complete ,
delusion, There were only two ways in which the posi-
tlon of the labouring classes would be improved. The one
would be by an increase in their wages, in their real
wages, by a higher reward for their labour. Now
did Universal Suffrage tend to anything of that
kind ? Would the enactment of Universal Suffrage
promote that object? If the country remained in a state
of tranquillity, he did not think it would have any effect
one way or the other. But if a change in our institutions
drove away many of the employers of labour—if it
drove capital out of the country, or induced many pro-
prietors
no longer to enerloy labourers in this country,
would be increasing the number of labourers anh,* de-
creating the stock for the employment of 'abot: and
r,
would, therefore, be diminishing wage-
-(
cut that
Hear, hear.
The other mode by which )
man-
s had held ethe
-

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