The Sun.
London, England, 1839-04-18 00:00:00

PERSECUTION OF MR. lIYNDF.S.

Mr. Fitosr ;aid that it appeared that he was not suffi-
ciently audible yesterday, when he named Mr. O'Connor as
the person who applied to the Lords of the Adiniraltyin behalf
of John Hyndes, the person who had been deprived of his
pension for attending a public meeting; it was stated as
Mr. O'Connell who had made the application.
The names being called over, the Chairman dissolved
the meeting, first having postponed a motion of his which
stood for discussion.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

ROUSE 01' LORDS, Ann, 17.

The Howe sat at a few minutes before Five o'Cleck.

The Earl of SHAVVF,SBURY presented a petition
from the Justices of the East Riding of Yorkshire, pray-
ing their Lordships not to pass a Bill for holding dis- '
triet sessions in that county.
Lord PORTMAN presented a petition from Derby.
in favour of an uniform rate of postage, according to Mr.
Rowland Hill's plan.
Lord WA L L ACE presented a petition from the
Guardians of a Union in the county of Lincoln, praying
for an improvement in part of the Poor Law Act.
Earl GREY presented two petitions from the Magis.
trates, Town Council, and inhabitants of Forfar,
praying for a total repeal of the Corn-laws.
The Noble Earl stated that be had had these petitions in
his pssession for some time past, but had not had an op-
portunitv of presenting them earlier.
On the motion of Lord DUNCANNON, the Mutiny
Bill, and the Marine Mutiny Bill, were read the third time
and passed.
The Consolidated Fund Bill was read a second time.
Adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, AITIL 17.

The SPEAKER took the Chair at the usual hour.

Mr. DENNISTOUN presented a petition from Glas-
gow against the. London, Liverpool, and Brazil Steam
Packet Company's Bill. Also a petition against certain
parts of the Scotch Prisons Bill.
Mr. LOCKHART brought up the report of the Com-
mittee on the Slamannan Railway Bill.
On the motion of Mr. lIEATHCOTE the Oxenharn
and Rarnsden (Southampton) Inclosure Bill was read a
thisd time, and passed.
On the motion of Mr. TOWNLEY the Stow-corn-
Qui Inclosure Bill was read a third time, and passed.
Mr. C. BERKELEY brought up a Report of the
Committee on the Cheltenham Water Works.
Mr. SCHOLEFIELD presented a petition from the
Merchants, Bankera, and Traders of Birmingham, praying
for an equalization of the tolls on the Birmingham Canal.
Mr. HARVEY presented petitions front the London
Gas-light and Coke Company, from the Master and War-
dens of the Bridge Committee, and from certain parties
holding property on the northern shore of the River
Thames, against the London and Blackwall Railway Bill.
Mr. SANDFORD moved the third reading of the
Parrott Navigation Bill.
1 Mr LEADER had been instructed by certain parties

EVENING _EDITION.

in West Somerset to oppose the further progress of the
Bill. The agent opposing the Bill had put iato his ( Mr.
Leader's) hands a clause, the object of which MIS to com-
pel the parties petitioning for the Bill to complete their
contract to hare always three feet of water throughout the
line of navigation, which they wished to (_et rul of_
" No, no.") Wo•old the Hon. Member for West Somerset
postpone the Bill, or 4,P:est to the clause?
Mr. SANFORD could nut consent to any clause with-

out the approval of all parties interested ; but be had no
objection to the postponement of the bill for a few days.
Mr. LEADER said he would move tke (dame.
The SPEAKER said the third readio,:f ;mut first be
put, which having been done and curled,
Mr. LEADER moved the addition of the clause.
The SPEAKER said there was a Standing Order for-
bidding any clause to be added without previous notice.
Mr. LEADER then hoped the passing of the Bill
would be postponed.
Lord G. SOMERSET suggested that the debate be
adjourned till Friday or Monday.
Mr. LEADER would move that the further proceed-
ings on the Bill should be postponed to Monday.
Mr. SANDFORD would not throw any opposition in
the way of the adoption of such a course.
The further consideration of the Bill was then postponed
to Monday.
Mr: BARNARD presented a petition from the Church-
wardens of Greenwich, against the Greenwich Sewers
Bill.

On the motion of Mr. PR YME, the Cambridge Gaol
Bill was read a third time and passed.

COMMERCIAL RAILWAY BILL.

Mr. PR YME, wished to call the attention of the
House' to an occurrence that had taken place that
morning in the Committee on the Commercial Rail-
way Bill. Several Members had appeared and signed
the declaration required by the Committee of Selection,
After the Chairman had been elected, a doubt had
consequently arisen as to their competency to act, be
cause the regulation stated that the Members must sign
the declaration as soon as they bad met; and before they
proceeded to the election of a Chairman. A discussion
arose, and a motion was put that these Members should be
permitted to vote, to which an amendment was proposed, and
when the Clerk took the votes on the amendment, there ap-
peared Ayes 7, Noes 8, but of these 8 Noes 7 were Members
who had signed the declaration after the Chairman had
taken the Chair—( A laugh)—and he did not think they
had a right to vote on the question, as to whether they
had a riiht or not, and therefore he contended the Ayes
were seven and the Noes one. Under these circumstances,
he wished to ask the opinion of the [louse for the guidance of
this and other Committees, whether it was sufficient that
Members shculd come into the Committee room hcfor the
business actually commenced, or whether those only w,,re
entitled to act who had taken part in the election of
Chairman.

Mr. WARBURTON suggested that the consideration
of the question should be adjourned till to-morrow. tie
considered that the signing of the declaration must ba con-
sidered as the first act of the Committee.

Mr. PRYME entertained a contrary opinion.
Mr. T. D UNCOMB E hoped, as one of those who
had been disfranchised by the Chairman, he might be per-
mitted to say a few words. The minutes of the Com-
mittee stated, that in the first instance there were eleven
Members of the Committee present, who proeceiled
to the election* of a Chairman—that Mr. 1).-yme
was chosen Chairman—that nine Members came in
afterwards, and expressed a desire to act. on the
Committee, when a doubt arose as to their c.nripetcney,
according to the resolutions of the House—that the q,.;e3-
tion was put, and the room cleared for a division—that the
previous question was moved as an amendment, arid the
result was as the Hon. Member had stated. He (Mr.
Duncombe) contended that every Member on the
Speaker's list was entitled to act—he did trot ad-
mit the right of those Members who had elected
the Chairman either to qualify or to disqualify
him, and that this House and the Huse alone .
could disqualify him from acting. He understood that this
same question had arisen this morning in another Committee,
he believed the North Eastern Railway, in which two Mem-
bers had entered after the Committee was in full operation.
A decision was come to afterwards, and those two Mem-
bers who canie in subsequent to the proceedings having
commenced were allowed to vote.—( Hear, hear.) The
question was, whether they were to be allowed to vote
as members of that Committee or trot?

Sir DE LACY EVANS said that before the I-louse
came to a decision on this matter, another fact ought
to be borne in mind, which was this, that the Commutee
must have been formed within five minutes after twelve
o'clock. Eight Members arrived a little before a quarter
past twelve, but the Chairman was appointed, and Coun-
sel and parties were in the room ; so that if a fcw
Members, favourable to one party, were to arrange
to be in the room precisely at a certain time, they
might exclude all the other Members who happened to
arrive a little later, from taking any part in the proceed.
ings.
Mr. PEASE said the rule ought not to be drawn too
tight, otherwise great injustice might be infl.cted on some
parties.

Mr. ESTCOURT observed the declaration might be
signed the day before the Committee, and therefore could
be no excuse that any one was taken by surprise on that
point.

Mr. HAVES said thin was very important to him,
because a vote might have been come to that would have
been fatal to the Bill. He, himself, would be glad to he
excused from attending the Committee, because its
proceedings were likely to be long argil
There was net one of the gentlemen who entered the
room, and whose vote was now in question, but could have
declared that they would have heard the whole of the evi-
dence, and that he believed was all that was necessary.
Sir J. GRAHAM said it was extremely desirable that
that question should be set at rest by the authority of the
House, so that some fixed rule might be established. His
opinion was that all parties who could vote upon the Com-
mittee ought to be present at the choosing of the Chair-
man. A rule ought to be laid down and most rigidly ad-
hered to. otherwise they would have all the evils of the
old system oonjoined with those of the new one.
The only difficulty was how to deal with the two crass
which had arisen to-day. He thought the rigid enforce..
ment of the rule retrospectively would not meet the justice
of
Aiettnhebeergaswetoand hadh es
signed
tthheeredfeocrel
declaration
oonplinsilomnultdh at
be tlii)cesre-
mitted to sit on the Committee.—( Hear, hear.)
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said he thought the declara-
tion should be made previously to any act of the Cernmit-
tee, but the rule ought not to be so rigidly enforced as
to
disqualify Members who might come in two or thrco
minutes after the commencement of the pF,eceedin,!:q.
(Hear, hear.) He thought that the Members wilo had
attended this morning should be allowed to act.
Mr. SHAW LErEVRE said the question was one of
some importance, and he Loped it would be decided by the
Ilouse. In the Committee on the London and Southamp_
ton Railway the Members who had not voted for the Clee.
tion of Chairman were allowed to vote, and he thought that
precedent ought to be adopted.
Mr. PRYME moved that the Members who had_
upon the Commercial Railway, el,7_ he Northern and
Eastern Railway, signed the declaration appoitee.e: by the
Committee of Selection, after the Chairman had taken
the chair, but before the business had commenced,. be
authorised to attend and vote at the said Committed.

Sir R. PEEL thought words ought to be introduced
showing that the prownt arrangement was but an exception.
Mr. WARBURTON said there was a third case, that
of the London and Southampton Railway, the Committee
on which had acted upon the same principle.
Mr. WA RBURTON thought the further consideration
of the subject should be postponed till to-morrow.
Mr. HA WES considered that the bett,r course would
be for the Hou3e to receive the Minutes of the Committer,
and come to a Resolution upon them.

Mr. AG LIONB Y suggested that it would he sufficient
to state that such Members, notwithstanding the resolu-
tion of the House, should be permitted to serve on the.
Committee; this might be done without placing the t
deuce on the table, and he thought this would be sufficient.
The question was then put from the Chair, and carried
without a division.

Messengers from the Lords brought up various Bills.
Mr, 13ROTHERTON presented a petition from the
Manchester, Bolton, and Bury Canal Company, against
t! e Liverpool and Manchester Extension Railway.
Sir CHARLES BURRELL presented petitions from
Horsham and Shoreham, in favour of a penny postage.

JAMAICA.
Sir ROBERT INGLIS presented a Petition from W.
Burge, Esq., Agent for the House of Assembly at Jamaica,
praying to be heard at the Bar against the I3ill for the
better Government of Jamaica. The Right lion. Bay t.
gave notice that on Friday next, he would move t`.-at the
prayer of the petition be agreed to.
Mr. O'CONNELL presented petitions praying the
House not to restore Orange domination in Ireland, from
Newry, St. Michael's (Dublin), and from Parishes in the
Counties of Tyrone and Galway ; from Ballycast in
Cavan, and twenty-one petitions from Wexford, signed'hy
the descendants of the:ancient Saxons, who prayed against
Orange domination.
Lord MORPETH presented several petitions to (Ix
same effect.
Mr. Serjeant JACKSON presented a petition signed
by forty-four Magistrates of the King's County, complaining
o.f the want of security of life and property in that county.
The petitioners stated that a combination existed among a
large portion of the lower orders of that country to destroy
the rights of property. The petitioners referred to the
murder of Lord Norbury in proof of these allegations, and
attributed it to the system of agitation at present prevailing
in Ireland. The petitioners concluded by stating their
belief that while a system of agitation continued in Ire-
land there would be no peace in that country.
Sir C. STYLES presented petitions from Dunegal,
in favour of the Irish Executive.
Major MACNAMARA presented a similar petition.
Mr. OTWAY CAVE presented 14 petitions from
parishes in the county of Tipperary, in favour of the policy
pursued by Ministers in the Government of Ireland.
Mr. GRATTAN presented several petitions from va-
rious places in Ireland, in favour of the Ministerial policy.
MINISTERIAL POLICY IN IRELAND.—AD-
__

JOURNED DEBATE.
On the Order of the Day being read for resuming the
adjourned debate—
Mr. BARRON said, that if he had consulted his
own personal feelings he should not have said one word
on this question, but the duty which he owed his constituents
prevented his being silent, and he should be guilty
of a breach of duty, if he did not bear his testimony in fa-
vour of the policy of Lord Normanby in his government of
se country
knowledgeu
iy,ltiryt r aLad
progressed Ireland. The policy of that Noble Marquis had conduced
materially to the improvementof Ireland, as he could prove
fromasa
publicmagstrdocuments,ate and frontlanadnedd
pr o
ri
cot;rov
rn personal.
Therc sa) in manufactures., it hadrogd
most it h. .d progressed in commerce; I n
undeubt-
cdly the value of landed property had increased very
much within the last seven years. Ile could prove this from
documents and facts that defied contradiction. He could
clearly prove in the words of the resolution cf the
Noble Lord, the Secretary fur the Home Depart-
ment, that the administration of the law zzlso bad con-
siderably improved, and that the general state of the