The Sun.
London, England, 1808-02-04 00:00:00

Erma and of the wealsnets c f Den.nerk would
justify the Expedition, seemed to forget -the admise
sion, fled to argue the brome:l Principle. It was ue-
doubtedly just, that there were a eotnieuuity
States in Europe, the weal*'Statee beghtto be ae,
secure from aggression as the more power& onese
This was a principle which had never been denied.
But Gentlemen applied this 'prieciple,which proper-
ly belonged to that state of Europe in which the
eights at all were secured by the sanctity of public •
law ; and even the weakesi were preserved from
aggression or insult, if not by immediate proteaion,
at least by confliaing interests. But in the enthu-
eiesm of the Right Honourable Get tleman's mo-
rality, it was realer strange, that he should have
forgotten the moralities of the French Revolution,
lii the present state of the world, whatever miseries
may be produced, whatever calaMities endured,
whatever atrocities comMitted, by the permission of
that Prividenc.e in which we live, and breathe, and
haves our being, the whole tespuneibility must rest
upon him who is the,sole author of them. There
is not now a community of States•in Europe, con-
netted ,by the solemnity and sanaion of public law,
protected, arid prote&ing by this influence of the
principles of equal justice, and a mutual sense of re-
eiptoeal rights; there is bat one deeming State,
that swallows up evley one that it can bring within
its grasp, and that so far from respeding the rights
and independence of other nations, reduces all to
tedit.eriiiminate subjection, rendering them alike sub-.
servient to its designs against this Country. • Buena-
parte now diaates to all the nations of the Conti-
nent, and has ,erased every vestige of public laW irt
Europe. Hecould not hut be surprised then, to
find -Gentlemen. censuring a me:teem which, had
• proved tieesalvation .of the Country ; it had saved
us. from the imminent dangers that Menaced us,
and therefbre it was that he Was surprised to hear
Gentlemen compare spell a measure with anti-
quated crimes in which we had eo share, for which
we had incurred no responsibility. Was it to be
contended that ie a moment of imminent danger
and impending necessity, we should have abstain-
ed.frorn that course which pridence and pplicy dic-
tated in order to meet and avert those calamities
that threatened our security and existence, be-
cause if we sunk under the pressure, we should have
the consolation to plead Puffendorff. bst the con-
au& that . had been .adopted cm this occasion, was
not without precedent or example.. In, the, year
leo), the Island of Madeira had: been eakere, pot-
session of by our Government for fear it should fall
into the hands of the French. Yet Portugal was
a Neutral Nation, and had alWays, by way .of pre-
eminence, been styled the old and ancient Ally of
England. The capture of Madeira bed been
effeded without any preelous communication to the
Court of Lisbon. Undoubtedly instruetitins, had
been sent to our Minister atelme Court of Lisbon, to
request that' an' order should be eent to the Cee.
vernor to surrender the Islarld iu good
The instructions arrived at Lisbon about the
time that the troops arrived at Madeira, and the
Island was consequently taken by force, before
any orders could have beo sent put to surrender
it with good will. Where had • Portugal at that
time a Fleet that could convey troops for the In-
vasion of these Llands,• or If she
,ttad that Fleet,,
- what Expedition could be .sent by her that would
not be defeated by the valour and intrepidity of our
seamen. He did not mean to condemn the capture
of that Island, because he knew i!`eit it tnight be,
and he had no doubt that it was, justifiable upon the
grounds of probable necessity ; he advereed to • the
transaction only as a defence against the generality
of the char ;e. But, that was not the only/instance
' in which such condua had been practised toNeutral
States, in which it had been used towards Neutral
and friendly powers ; nay, even there was an instance
in which it had been adopted byemorality (Mr.
Windham) itself towards a *friendly State. In the
year tette), there had been reports of its being the in-
tention of time French Government to invade Portu-
gal.. He had himself no doebt of the perpetual in-
tention of the French Government to prosecute that
pm-pose, and he did not queation that the design
might have been in contemplation at that time,-but
it did not appear that any atm), was assembled for
the purpose at Bayonne. He admired the conduct
~which had been adopted by the late Ministers on the
occasion, he applauded their spirit, and he felt gra-
titude for the manner in which their proceedings en-
abled him. to meet *the general question on this
charge. (Here the Right Honourable Secretary
tendon extra& from the instructions given by the
late Board of Admiralty to Lail St. Vincent, when
dispatched :te Lisbon. The instrudiens direded
the Noble Admiral's attention to three objects ; tiest
if the Portuguese Government 4hould, by itself, er
in conjunction with Spain, be disposed to defend
the Country against the French, ,to promise all. the
assistance that Greaeßritain cpuld afforcleand,the
presence of a reseedable naval force in the Tagus
would contribute to that, obje(t ; edly, if that should:
notbe the determination of the Court, and the Go-
vernmeneshould embrace the resolution, of emigrat-
ing to the Brazils, as it had once propotted, during
the late war, to offer them' the assistance'of a British
naval force, under the proteCtioh of which' alone
that detertuitiation could be carried into etfe, ;
,and
lastly, if there sheuld not be vigour enough in the
GovernMent to adopt either of these resolutions,
he was to prevent, if possible, the Port of Lisbon
from falling into the hands of the French, and at all
events the Portuguese navy was to be secured; every
Vessel of which that was serviceable was to be
brought off, together with the Ships, goodie and per-
sons of the British Faaory 'at Lisbon, and also the
Court, it it should be so disposed: for the execution of
these instrudions, the troops that were then embitrkiag
were to be sent to him with all convenient expedi-
tion ; but he was not to give any intimation of the
circumstance to the Portuguese Government, nor to
bold any language that might excite the suspicion of
the French Minister, or lead to any measures of
Precaution and as it might be necessary to employ
the troops immediately on their arrival, in order to
secure a strong position, he was to have the marines
Land boats of the Fleet constantly in, readiness for that
service.) These inatrudiotis were clear in their te-
sior, precise in their object, and conclusive as to
eae question then under cousideration. If any Gen-
tleteen wished for the document It-would be laid on
ehe table, and /the only shyness that had beets felt
in p.oducing it before was that it would place
limp a id his colleagues in the situation of edrivieted
eitie twists. These were the instructions Alta hee

iseen given by morality itself, and the only differ.
trice between them and the instrudions that had
been given by the present Government was, that the
latter did not desire that the army should be intro-
ducedin disguise. But there might yet be one qua.
lineaticu that the Honourable Gentleman would ap-
plY to. Den mark, namely, that her condua, when she
was relatively strong to weaker Neutral States, did
not merit such a measure against her. What had
that condut been ? When, in 1.801, the marl-.
time confederacy held out a prosped that this
Country would not be able to protect its allies,
Denmark treated the unprotected Neutral State of
Hamburgh with the most violent oppression, and for
the purpose of excluding the English from that port.
The same conduct hadteen pursued towards Rata-
burgh. This conduct proved that Denmark had no
very.strong claims for forbearance. But it was ra.
-ther strange, that those Gentlemen, who blamed
Government for not having accepted the mediation of
Russia, should now impute it as a ground of charge
that they had not passed by Copenhagen in order
to attack Cronstadt. 'We • had the right to attack,
,iftuesia, but had we no interest in forbearing•to ex-
` ircise that right ? There were, at the time, in
the Potts of Resia, five hundred British ships, and
six thousand British seamen, and Gentleinen would
perceive, that these formed too important an
obje& to be hazarded for the sake of the few hulks
that might be obtained at Cronstadt : besides, the
fleet which Russia had iu the Mediterranean was a
security to us for her good behaviour ; and here he
would take occasion to contradid a tniorepreorienta-
tion that had taken place upon the. subject of this
fleet. The Russian Squadron did not enter the
Tagus by orders irom the Government, but frotn.,.
their distress, and because all the ports of the
Enemy were so closely blockaded by our squa-
drons that. they could bet toter any one of
them. This squadron was first directed to touch
at a British Port, and even the Russian Ambassa- .
dor was so deceived with resped to it, that he had
kept here a Frigate with specie on.board for thp
payment of that very Heat. :But if t! at fleet bad
been attacked, 'what an argument m?ght yet he
drawn against the precipitancy of such la measure,
from the circumstance of theAttadron batting been
diredled to touch at a British Port, and theitussian
-Ambassador having detained the Frigate 'ith the
specie for the pay at the crews. ge bad intietieusly
avoided referring to any thing in this debate, but what
was notorious; 'and it' they were to ask whotoijiad
rested their defence upon precise infortnatioi‘z.whett
the events and fads that had since taken place
had amply justified their measure, he would an-
oker, that they had stated that precise grwnd be-
cause it was true, and not because they aonght it
necessary to theiejustification in judging of the caae
before the House. If any more evidence should be
thought necessary, let them be condemned, for no-
thing should ever extort frotn them the source whence
they had derived their information. If Gentlemen
should say that this course was contrary to the prac-
tice Qf Parliament, he would go to the Journa's,
to prove that it was riot oet of the usual course of '
Parliamentary proceedings.. Having rescued the
Country from a 'great and inunineht danger; he
would trust to the case as it stood, and he bad no
doubt that their cOndiiet would he judged deserving
of credit. •Thdy might judge of the extent of the ser-
vice performed, by contemplating the distrihetion Of
our naval fUree that might be necessary if the Danish
Fleet were not now in oar possession.- As to what
the Hon. Gentleman had said of the increase; of the
danger 0 Sweden by the Expedition, be Could as- I
sure that Gentleman titan that danger was greatly di-. I
minished-by that event, and, that the GoVernatent of '
Sweden felt it so. As the Hon. Gentleman bad alluded
to a communication made by him to Mr. Itist, the
Danish Charge d'Affaires, he would briefly athte
the fad to the House.. He had been conimandedby
his Majesty, after the Danish, Fleet had been sur-
rendered, to make an official communication to that
Gentleman; desiring that he might procure powers
front the Crown Prince to negotiate an accommoda;
tiotl, or to procure passpotts tora Minister to go to
Kiel for that purpose. This wee all the official
communication; .he bad, however, thought it right
to inform Mr. fist of the terms upon which the.
accommodation might be, c&Cted. He had Men-
tioned then the period of three years, as that which
• might, after the conclusion of peace, enable one to
form a judgment of the stability of the peace;,
and certainly those who had witnessed the last
peace west be sensible that the period, was not
• too long, as iii eighteen months, 4fittr thatpeaee,;we
were as much at war as before. Considering that
we had gained possession of thelleet by force, he-did
not think the stipulation of such a' term any insult,
and he: had proposed either to keep the fleet in depo-
sit, or to take it by purchase.' When he conatiini•
cated this fact to the House, he thought it necessary
to state why he did not produce the PaFers. As all
negotiatious were reattotted on the terms upon, winch
they had been' last broken off, and though he and
'his Colleagues had thought it right to make such ofa
tors in thatattstance, it would not follow that they
' should he disposed. to grant the same conditio4 at tk,
future period, in thiAllOpe of some such accommo-
dation his Majesty had even been induced to delay
direiiing. the condemnation of the Danish shipping,
as well as his Declaration of War, He had no !levi-
tation to add, that every stipulation had been re-
quirixt that could be necessary for the security of
the Swedish 'territory., But now that war has taken
place, it could nut be contended the capture of, the
Danish navy did not pro. lento diminish the means
' Of the enemy, whilst it added to our means •of
security. Buottaparte well knew, that the Mari-
time Power of Great Britain 'was the only • impe-
diment to his universal aggrathlisement, lie would
not cease, therefore, to exhaust all the means
.he possesses to accomplish the grand object of his
ease :on. The trial Lie would snake, and it is only
by making it, and its failere, that he is to be con-
vinced of the ineflictency and fruitlessness of all his
designs. He would destroy all commerce in. order
tb injure this country, which he identitimaritif it.
• Cedet et ipse marl veaor Inc nautica pinto routabji
But though lie should direct the whole accumulated
three of his vast territories to this purpose, -lie will
find all his projects frustrated, until lie can make all
nations independent of-Commerce, in coniegnence
of their own productions.

4• (Minis teret amnia teiltii.i.

13y the Expedition to Copenhagen theimeans of the
Euenty bad been reduced, and the security of the
Country
,A.inlenteci. !Thom who tk:tiot ou pv•

hey .of that, measure weak and its execution unjust,
would certainly vote against him: But he could not
consider it a manly way to take the division upon the
Motion for Pipers, and not on the merits of the
question, merely because some few would vote for
,the Papers, who would not. support a motion for ,
:censure. Conscious of the prindples upon which
he and his colleagues had need, and of the advan-
tage resulting to the Country from their measure,
be should submit to the decision of the House, and
meet the Motion with a direa negative.
Mr. WINDHAM, after the explanation of Ms
sentiments on a former night, had intended to save
the house the trouble of hearing him at any length
this night; but he could not withhold himself from
,expressing his astonishment at the manner in which
the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite had alluded to
certain transaaions of the late Administration. It was
true, the late Ministers had sent a,fleet to Lisbon,
as the present Ministers had sent one to Copenhagen :
but there was this difference, that the:late Ministers
having precisely the same grounds for' seizing the
fleet of Portugal, had declined to act to that.extent
upon those grounds that the present Ministers had
in the case of Copenhagen. The Right Hon. Gen-
tleman chose to characterise as a failure, what,
in fact, was but a forbearance from the exer-
tion of force, on the principle that the circumstances
which were judged sufficient to warrant that force,
had not arisen. The success of the present Mini-
sters consisted in doing what was improper to be done
at all, and what might as welt have been done at
any time since the commencement of the war, The
late Ministers had general information in .a loose on-
authenticated form, similar to that stated by the
Bight Hon. Gentleman this night, of an attack me-
aditated by France-upon Portugal, and an army as-
.sembied for that purpose at Bayonne; but because
there was no other information they would not go
the length the present Ministers had thought proper
to go in the business of Copenhagen. The Right
Hon. Geptlenian, therefore, had no reason to exult
in a comparison which Made against him, and he
may address him in the words of the Poet?

i` Can nothing but thine own renroach,
" Serve ter a motto roe thy coacht"
The Portuguese Fleet was not to have been seized by
Earl St. Vincent's, till Portugal refused our
;MCC to defena her territory ; not till she, rejeeted
the next alternative a the emigration of the
Court, as now, under oer proteetion, to the Bra-
zils;
„and,
.lastly, not till advices should have been
received of the actual entrance of a French army
into Portugal, and till it should he manifest to all
the world, arid particulasly to the Portuguese theme
selves,' 'that if we did not' tulle possession of the
they would be seized by France. He
ed that the collusion of the Neutral State, or the
inability to resist apprehended force, was a slit&
cient reason for securing tho meani of that nett,
tral from the grasp of the enemy. jut the necessity
should be evident.- He than proceeded to contend
at considereble length, that no satisfactory proof had
been given of that necessity, and therefore he should
support the Moiion; .
(We lament very much that the very great length
of the Debate and the late hoer, to which the 'louse
sat, ren4ers it itnpossible for' os to give airy thing
more tli4n a yilry short abstrati of the rein.iluing
spec ches.l.
'Mi. MlLcaas, with I.A.ks usual eloquence and ability
replied to Mr. WIKAIti4, and opposed the Motion.
.44THURSI: went over tbd same Mtu-
ments as Mr. 'Windham ;I and added, that the taking
of Madeira last war was to preserve it from falling
into the hands:of the Fret)*
Mr. L. E 4514 FOS2lE*the contended, that 'wh-
ile oTOunds already before the House were amply
sufficient to juttify the 'Expedition, His Majesty's
Ministers had shewn themselves aliVe to what the
honour and glory of the Country required. They
were entitled to the highest thanks for acting as they
hael'done, and they would have deserved to be im-
peached it they had 2610 otherwise: •
Lord PA,LiiigIiSTONE opposed the Motion!
Mr. MOIWIS went very ininnteiy into the ques-
tion, 'awl broadly contended, that the seizure of the
Danish fleet was 4 violation of no laW, but that it
was justified and sanetioned by every , law, when it
evidently rested on the necessity ,of self-preservation,
which carried With-it every law. It was a hard and,
cruel necessity he would allow, but the nature of:
our situation imperiously imposed it on us, •

Res dura, et regni novitas me tubs cogurtt Moliri.

111 r. I,YTTLETQN followed on the SAme side,
and adopted xsiiiiilar line of argument, resting the
justification of the measure gpon its necessity. On
this occasion he became a proselytp, to thp cause of
Ministers; but he feared it was the only one where.
he simuld have Such grounds to Warrant .bis defence
of them,

; Mr, g.fiITIME.4D contended that suffieient in-
formation had not beco submitted to the Douse.
He asked why the., whole of the Dispatches from
Lord Hutehinson and Lord.G. L. Gower had not
been-laid upon the table
Lord G.. 1,. Walt Could not forbear making a
fovt obiereatiens, having .been .so 4.10c4i1y called upon
by the ;Hoc. Gentleman who spoke last. The real
cause of the change of mind towards England of the
Emperor Alexander,. he conceived to be the dis-
asters incurred by him in Poland, and the .Undi-
vided pressure of the. war which he was left to
support. Unit change of mind w.as observable
long before the attack upon Copenhagen ; for, iro-
twdiately upon the return of his imperial Majesty
to St. Petersburgh, the first person he called upon
was his Minister of Marine ; be then set out ter
Cronstadt, and ordered the fortifications of that place
to be put on the best footing. These measure were
not prompted by the Baltic Expedition; nor in,.
deed does that make only one point of the many
re,peeting which the Emperor Alexander requires
satisht6tion in the Russian Declaration : he insists
more particdlarly on the re-establishment of peace
beWeen France and England, before, he will con.
sent to return to the usual .relations of peace and
amity with this Country. The Copenhagen' busi-
ness was not therefore the cause of his alienation
from this Country . Nay, were he to judge of the
measure from the opinion that was conceived of it by
the majority of the people of Petersburgh, so far horn
execrating; they expressed the highest approbation of
that Expedition ; even those who wished in a' tn`dn.-;
ucr toinsulate Russia Irvin the rest of Europe, consi-
uered themselves as relieved from no small
by what had happened to Copenhagen. Without
that they still feared to see a Drench army _on their

Polish frontier, and another French army on their
Turkish frontier. He thought the
ground already
sufficient on which Ministers rested their justitica.
lion. . lie was against publishing any furtherofficial
notes. He' knew the mischief of it. Often bad
Foreign Ministers hesitated confidentially 10 cote'
municate with him, lest in a year or so afterwards
they should find their communications made public.
Lord CASTLEREAGH correCted. many of die
errors into which some Gentlemen had fallen in re-•
sped to dates. It was not on the inth, but on the'
nth July, that Ministers took the King's pleasure
reseeaing the instruaions that were given to the •
Oilicers commanding the Expedition iu the Baltic;
as to the letters being garbled, he could safely say,
that all was produced that could with propriety be
made public; but this information was wholly distinet
from the secret informatiots respelling the Treaty of
Tilsit, He contended, that every thing in the Con-
duct of Denmark argued a 'desire to enter into
a compromise with France. The Danish Govern-
ment' even refused to give any Atte') pledge
or prOsnise that they would not unite with l'reee.
As to the complaint of our not retaining posses'
sion of the Island of Zealand, it was easily answer-,
ed by the opinions given on that subject by Algol
experienced Officers, who declared, that to maintain
it against the Danes and French would requi,&
a force far beyond any thing we were able to spy.
A complete and combined blockade of that Island
%vas also impossible; mid• superior as our- Nall •
was in so many respeas, yet, without the seizure
of the Danish Fleet, we should have • boon
t lass to keep a force to cotinteraa the naval Os°
bination in
.the Baltic, without being compelled
weaken our line of defence at otherpoints. •
Mr. GRcNVIL.LE' said the documents rela'
five to the Dardanetles Expedition. would justify tilt:
late Ministers in that respect.
Mr. Possortay then replied,—The House.divided
Ayes ...... toB
• •4- Noes ' . 251
Majority for Ministers - - 545

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THE SUN.

vaism gust DICIRS ,A,LIUM AVDltit

L 0 ND 0, N,
Tiluitsnny, YILISRUABY 4$ 10084.

ti 'z are sorry to state that the Leda rrtigikte
agnantkd a few nights ago, and Apprehensickni sly
entertained that she will be lost. The crew- howeW
are ilrsaved, and it is possible that the Ship Mal b
got off. - She was endeavouring to entsr MiUurdi

It statedln some of the Papers; of this morning
tbat Six &ensign STRACHAN bad Teton:led to bt
station, havi
ng given up the pu,rsuit 47,f- the Rob"
fort Squadron. There is no foundAion f4t this'
report.

Letters were this morning received from Gibral*
tar, cfated the t.ith ult. they sLato that the Frer.:ll aged
Spaniards openly avowed their intention to con"
mange the Siege of that place, and ‘vero inakingtbo
necessary► preparatioos.

Zia American Ship ilelive has arrived at 110
mouth from St. Übe's; a passenger in her,. Wl3c4
left Lisbon on the 13th January, confirms, the Os
port of the Insurrection in Lisbon, but states t 441
there were not so many lives. lost as was repres°ltl
cd ; he also aldds, that the-Minotaur, Si; C. Slt
lot, bad joined Sir S.' Sitrm off the Taps.
Our Plymouth Letter 'states, that the Btale4
Ship Campus, which struck on the rocks on S3tut4
day, Boated off en the Td, and has been towed into
the farbour. . .

A Letter, dated Villa Real, toth DeceMberi (IP
traded from the Gibraltar Chro lick, gives a dep/ora4
ble account. of the slate of Portugal since tho ear
trance of the French, who, it itays, came as lop*
but have *hewn themselves ravenous and blocji
wolves. Though JUNOT has a large army of Ere°ti
and Spaniaats there, he has required more troops'
to complete the subjugation of the country.

Government this morning received DisPAttn"
item Jamaica; every thing' is.4uiet tbere ; .the
4.entjbly has been prorogued.

A most interesting Debate took place last night in
the House of Commons, on Mr. PONSONIWIS P4a+
tion, which was negatived by a very largo NajoritY'

Yesterday, about twelve o'clock, His Aisits'f'
carne to town from Windsor, to the Queen's Falo€4
where the Dukes of Yottx, KENT, .C.U.IBEIII-A1491
and'Sussax, were in-readiness} to receive him.
Soon after two o'clock, His MAJESTY held ai „
l'
vete Levee.
-0
INDIA-HOUSE.—Yesterdo a Court of Directo,
was held, when the undermentioned Captains.We's
sworn into the command of their ros'pective 51ii?
ot
viz. Capt. STEPLINN tiAWES, of. the:Monarch, teat
Madeira; Madras, anci Bengal t. Wu. Liroci"
at the Harriet, Madras au kt Bengal. The Goat sd,
journed ,at six o'clock till to- morrow. e
lu the Court of King's Bench, yesterday, the
of the KING V. PICTUN, anti that also oldie .I‘ll4a
v. DODD, reepeaing Joint stock Companies,. wdro
of
further postponed, in consequence of Prl'ssury
more temporary lousiness.

"Lomtpat: : , Printed by R. 114 kit t of AliirtLlt:t frf
niith
".454teetl, and paid:an:A by W. 04. SCRirrs t 4"
144u11411-6tteell, at Om Sun.'QiNc,,, 112, Strand.