The Sun.
London, England, 1839-05-01 00:00:00

THE SUN, LO.NM)N, WEDNESDAY, MAY 1. 1,-ci9.

SECOND EDITION.

SUN OFFICE, Sr ven o' Clock.

CARLOW ELECTION COM-

MITTEE.

The Committee met this day at half-past three o'clock,
Mr. Grote in the Chair.

Mr. Austin and Mr. Cockburne appeared for the pe-
titioner, and Mr. The2siger and Mr. Wrangham for the
sitting Mernb,r.
Lists laving been exchanged between the parties on
either side, the Committee adjourned till tomorrow at
eleven o'clock.

Mr. William Russell, the private Secretary of
the Lord Chancellor. has been this thy appointed to the
office of Accountant-General of the Court of Chancery, in
the room of Mr. Adam.

held there, and the fallacies of the arguments of the Corn-
law party opposed, that Sheffield would stand first and
foremost in advocating Charter principles.—(Hear.)
He had attended a variety of meetings in villages adja-
cent to Sheffield, where the Corn-laws were no bug-
bear, and in most of those districts the people were be-
ginning to see that their happiness depended on their
obtaining political power. A similar feeling prevailed at
Chesterfield, and he trusted that, after the visit that
would be made by sorne members of the Convention to
Sheffield, on Whit-Monday, they would be able to dis-
charge their duty more efficiently.—( Hear, hear.)
On the motion of Ma F. O'CONNOR, a vote of
thanks to Mr. Gill was unanimously agreed to.
LANGUAGE OF THE CHARTISTS.
Mr. SANELY, in moving "Teat the present move-
ment, being essentially English, and not having in view
any theorencei ienovatien;, but a recurrence to the first
principles of the original Sexon Constitution, this Con-
vention do deprecate any language or expression which
would appear to assimilate our objects to th se of the
French Revolution, or to take it as our model,"
sehl that he approached the question with feelings of
considerable diffidence, but hr thought it was important
that the Convention should come to a decision respect-
ing such language. Ile was not one who viewed the
French Revolution with the horror that many did. Its
result had been unfortunate but he coincided in the ob-
ject teat the Res olutionists had in view.—( blear, hear,
hear.) He considered that the selfish opposition of
the priesthood and the aristocracy connected with
foreign power had given that character of bloodshed to
the Revolution which it had assumed. But he re-
gretted that the subject of the French Revolution
should be at ell times brought forward in the way it
was, in connection with their movement in favour of
democratic principles.—( Hear.) He did not mean to
find fault with any one for expressing their own opi-
nions, but he would just mention one or two expres-
sions that might well be avoided. There were many
circumstances associated with that Revolution that
frightened and terrified the timid, and which would pre-
vent their joining in the Chartist movement. Many
who used the word " Jacobin" did not know the
difference between Jacobin and Jacobite.—( Hear,
hear.) They supposed that as the Jacobins were demo-
crats the Jacobites were so also, whereas the Jacobites
were, in fact Tories.—(Hear, hear.) Then with
respect to the cap of liberty—at the-Smithfield meeting
he was unable to get on the hustings, and had, therefore,
toe stand in the crowd. A cap of liberty-was there -
exhibited, and he was confident that if the parties who
' exhibited that cap were aware of the manner in which
it was laughed and jeered at they would not make
another such exhibition.—(Hear.) The movement
in which they were then engaged was different from
any other movement that lid hitherto token place.
All the other movements had commenced constitution.
ally, if he might use the term—had commenced with
the authorities. The reason why many movements had
not turned out well was that they had not originated
with the people, and the reason why he looked with a
degree of hope to the success of the Chartist movement
was—(he trusted without bloodshed)—that the virtuous
people were engaged in it,. and that they un-
derstood the true principles of liberty.—(Hear,
hear, hear.) Forme- Revolutions in England and
France had originated with the constituted authorities—
not with the people ; hence they were carried on igno-
rantly into the movement ; therefore it
" Did not rise with tranquil matin rays,
But burst upon them like the light'ning's blaze."
All he wanted was that the people should be properly
represented in their own House, and he believed the
majority of the Convention were for what was called
"King, Lords, and Commons." He bad no wish to make
personal allusions, but knowing that there must be agi-
tation going on in distant parts, and knowing that the
effect of using such language as he- alluded to would be
to induce the people to fancy French principles were
at work, be had thought it would not be amiss far
him to submit this motion to the Convention. He
trusted in God the present movement would succeed ;
but its success might be impeded by the use of language
and expressions that produced no good effect, but only
tended to alarm the timid and to strengthen
rengthen the opposi-
tion of their enemies.—(hear, ha
Mr. COLLINS seconded the motion.
Dr. FLETCHER said that although he was a deter-
witted supporter of the constitutional and natural
right of resistance to arbitrary power, yet he agreed •
with Mr. Sankey in his view of the mischief
that was likely to be done to their cause,
by the fopperies, as he would say, of the French Revo-
lution, and of associations which could be so little con-
genial to the feelings of those who hoped the movement
would effect the object thee had in view. He hoped,
however, that Mr. &Bikes, would withdraw his motion.
His doing so might, perhaps, prevent some personal oh-
sere actions, especially as the question could have no prac-
tical effect on the business of the Convention.
Mr. SANELY then withdrew his motion.
SITTINGS OF THE CONVENTION.
Mr. O'CONNOR then rose to move " that on Mon-
day, the 13th of May, the Convention shou!cl com-
mence holding its sittings at Birmingham." After the
vote that was taken yesterday, it might be necessary
for him to s iy. that in making this motion be did not
intend the slightest d srespect to the Convention. Tne
amendment, he believed, was yesterday proposed by
Mr. Sankey under a misapprehension, and he hoped a
better result would attend the 'present motion.• Mr.
Sankey had stated that his reason tor opposing the mo-
tion yesterday was, that he (Mr. O'Connor) had said
that when they arrived at' Birmingham they might call
themselves ‘• the fountain of all laW." Mr. S:tult,y
had now lad an opportunity of considering the

eNplarattion that lie (fur. 0 .,onnor) gave
,)es e-tay,
and to sl e impoit itwe he attached to it he

would st,,te that if any act of his tended to create a
suspicion in Mr. Sankey's mind he would give pledge
that he would betake hiniself 't,ff to the constituents of
Mr. Caney at Kirkaldy, and temrr his zeal with their
judgmert.(A titgli.) Mr. O'Brien' had reso stated
that he was misrepresented yesterday, and he would now
have an opportunity of setting himself right. There
was no member of the Convention whose views he would
be more unwi:ling to misrepresent than Mr. O'Brien's,
who was a man that stood high, not only with the Con-
vention, but with the country. The expense that
might he incurred was another difficulty thrown in
the way of the motion, but he contended that so far
from aiding to it would diminish the expense attending
the transmission of Delegides to the simultaneous meet-
ines.that had been determined upon ; another reason
why his motion had been lost yesterday was the great
muster of London Delegates. He (Mr. O'C.) knew
that he had to contend against their comfort and con-
venience, and it gave him great satisfaction to find that
a greater number of the Condon Delegates met yester-
day than on any other motion before the Convention.
Mr. HETHERINGTON—What has that to do with it?
Mr. O'CoNNott—Mr. Hetherinton would have the
opportunity presently of showing that it had not to do
with it. But the London men having only to come
from their own homes to the Convention every morn-
ing since the Convention sat, he thought they
might expect them to surrender a portion of
their convenience to that district which on Mr.
Carpenter's own showing, required their presence.
Tee London Dele:ates had opposed the motion
in order to carry out their own views. The funds th,y
of
fun
at all
hadcon inve band were
ought v
to
voted
afkoer
the
eamt
oCstonvention, and thath
e
arguments urged yesterdny„weretonoui
argumentsßirmingham. He
round
h.nl
stro strong
t.lltiermk
againstso the Convention g
13 rmin~l,an, in cohnasmequaenny
if they
atiteive
exist in thrum)
feuds said to
tall}'
Ct
to any party,
of Orength. u
went to Birm
and the only
.request he had' to make, as 14
to be discussed nits
O'Brien would allow the questiono
:ngliam, theytieswoiuultio
all those di,uniitieltdendpeadr
no disrespect

" That we continue to hold our sittings in London
until after the presentation of the petition to Parlia-
ment, and till after the Convention shall have come to
some vote respecting the introduction of the People's
Charter to Parliament ; and that it be an instruc-
tion to the Committee appointed to devise mea-
sures to propose to the snitultanecus public meet-
ings to fix on the time and phee for the re-assembling
of the Convention after the said meetings."
Mr. BURNS secondLd this amendment in a few words.

Dr. FLETCHER revested that put of the addres.s:
recommendin: the holding- of simultaneous tne•tings,
which alluded to the re-eLeion of the Delegates should
be read.

Mr. LOVETT proceeded to read the paragraph alluded
to, by which it appeared that the Convention told the
people, that they were of opinion that the House of
Commons would refuse the prayer of the Nations!
Petition. Iu that case the Convention will give the
people an opportunity of deciding, on what course they
should in future pursue.
Dr. FLETCHER—It appeared to him that those words
did not bear the construct o wh ch he imagined they did.
All the Address recant was, that they should separate
and take fresh instructions. This was right, and every
man here was of opinion that this course was proper.—
(Hear.) He heard it repeated from time to titre that
they were here only to superintend the petition, but he
thought they were elected to perform what was neces-
sary to expedite the measure on which they were all intent.
He thought that some of the body should stay in Lon-
don to confer with the Members of Parliament who
would take their business in hand ; he of himself did not
care for this, as he was convinced that only seven or eight
members would support them, but it was necessary to
treat those with all due respect, and that the farms of
the House should be complied with, in order that
nothing on their part should be left undone.—(Hear,
hear.) He could not agree with Mr. Lovett. There
was no timidity expressed by any of the members who
wished that the Convention should proceed to Birming-
ham ; they were alike ready to abide the result of the
petition in one part as well as the other.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. SKEVINGTON supported the adjournment.
Mr. DONALDSON—They could not do any thing to '
promote their cause than by adjourning to Birmingham.
The people were there completely at sea in consequence
.of the late affair, and it required the utmost exertion to
produce a feeling of unanimity among them.—(Hear.)
Beside's, the Whigs had used and were u 4:),.." every ex-
eitictn to fan this disunion ; their spies and emissaries
were busy day and night in disposing the people to
desert from tan Convention.—(Hear, hear.) At Stour-
bridge, notwithstanding the machinations of their
enemies, the people on last Monday made a demonstra-
tion that still have a great effect on the people's cause—
a cause which he (Mr. Donaldson) had so much at
heart, and which he was happy to say was on that oc-
casion asserted by the brave people of Stourbridge and
its mighbourhood. On that occasion theresolut ions were
passed with acclamations, and were of that kind which
told well for the spirit of the people—among them was
ono of confidence in the Convention.—( Hear.) He
(Mr. Donaldson) would conclude by saying that he apo-
logised for detaining the Convention on this his first
appearance among them ; but his excuse was, that he
could not refrain from expressing his conviction, that if
even the Convention went there for one week only, they
would serve the cause materially.—( Hear, and cheers.)
Mr. ROGERS, after some pertinent remarks, moved
the previous question.
Mr. NEEsom supported Mr. O'Connor.
Mr. HALLEY thought they could not go bank
to the country until they hed tested the opinions
of the House of Cnmmons. 'Pliny had not yet
finished their first. position, fer which they had. been
sent there. He took it that they should again appeal
to the country before they could proceed furtl.er ; they
had not yet finished the business for which they came
here, it was therefore out of their duty to go to any
other place until they had further tested the House of
Parliament.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. Duncan, Mr. Carlo, and also Mr. Maing,
supported Mr. O'Connor's resolution. The latter gen-
tleman said it was well known that nothing could be ex-
pected from the House of Commons. He thought the
best way was to carry out the business for which they
were sent, which was to create such a change in
the government of the country as would give the
poor man a right to the making of.the laws by which he
was to be governed—and which could be best effected
if they held their assemblies amidst the thousands who
were interested in the change—and which if not pro-
duced by the means which they were at present adopt-
lug, these thousands would tell those who withheld
their privileges, that they should have them if they were
even under the necessity of exerting physical force.—
(" Hear" and cheers.)
Mr. HARTWELL opposed the resolution.
Mr. CARPENTER also addressed the Convention in
support of the amendment of Mr. Lovett.
Mr. BUSSEY disclaimed the prudence of reverting to
personal imputations. As regards an expression of Mr.
Carpenter, that the greater part of the work should be
left undone till the 6th of May, he could not see this.
The whole country expected that the petition would be
presented on that. day, and that the discussion on it
would go on immediately afte-wards. He was for al-
journment to the provinces ; but while he was so, he
thought they should not adjourn while the discussion on
the petition . would be The,necesAity of ad-
journment- to the preefiv!P•B which he
Ras mach intere.,4ed, as,he koew.th4 un,ess some very
decided step was shortly taken, people, 'iither from
their excited feelings, occasioned by their men miseries,
orthe machinations of Government tools, would be
driven to partial outbreak, a circuna,taece which every
one interested in this cause ought to b. particularly
anxious to prevent. •-( Hear, hexer.) He del not see
that gentlemen should take so mach time t.i expre.-s
their sentiments, as tending to sly that the qu,svon
ulterior measures should not be taken into consideration.
This bugaboo, or whatever else they tally choose to de-
sionate it, was a measure which ought to be met in
calm del:bervioe, and with due consideration.
Mr. CLEAVE eppes..d the resolution of Mr.
O'Connor, as did Mr. O'BRIEN, who spoke at length
against it, and against Mr. Lovett's amentlenent.
Mr. RICHARDSON spoke against both the resolution
and amendment.

Mr. HARNEY was for moving to Manchester, because
there they would hive the support of 250,000 men, who
would be determined to defend their liberties.—(l-le;ir,
hear.) It would be prudent th,tt their enemies should
commence the attack, which he was sure they woull do
very shortly—it %you'd, then, he well that they should
be in a situation to meet that attack.—( Hear, hear.)

And in no place wouil thy be in so gi)o:1 a situa-
tion as among .the brave mom of the North, who
are even now ready and willing to exert them-
selves in the regeneration of the country. He did
not mean this as any disparagement to the men t f
London, who, front circumstances over which they
bad no control, were not in a position to make efforts a,
great as the men of Lancashire and Yorkshire.—(Hear,
hear.) He, as one of the Delegates from Newcastle,
telt proud of the compliment bestowed on them by Mr.
Cleave—" That they were panting for liberty ;" but
while they were so they had as much prudence and
discretion as gnve them to understand when would be

the proper tine to make the proper demonstration in
favour of the rights of the universal people.—(Hear,
and cheers.)
After a discussion of some hours Mr. O'CONNOR
replied, upon which the amendment of Mr. Lovett was
put, and negatived by a majority of seven.
Mr. O'BRIEN brought forward his amendment,
merely recapitulating the whole of the arguments of
both dad's discussion on the subject of the adjournment
The amendment was, " That until after the people's
`demands of the National Petition and the People's
Charter shall have been submitted to, and decided upon
by the Legislature, it is the duty of the Convention to
continue its sittings in London ; but in the event of
the Legislature rejecting our demands, this Convention
is of opinion that its sittings ought forthwith to
be removed to Birmingham or Manchester ; that we do
hereby resolve that we will make Birmingham or Mim-
chester tha scene wherein we will enter upon the dis-
cussion of ulterior measures."

• The amendment was seconded by Mr. J. TAYLOR.
Mr. HRTHRRINOTON proposed that the last words
referring to ulterior measures be struck out, which was
agreed to by Mr. O'Brien, upon which the vote was put
on the amendment and carried by a majority of aree.
Twenty voting for Mr. O'Brien's amendment, and seven-
teen for the original resolution.
Mr. O'CoNNott, in .ouraur that the country might be
aware:of the position which they held, and in order that
there might be no misunderstand n; as to what they in-
tended to do in future, would move as an amendment
•on Mr. O'Brien's amendment, alit the Convention as-.
semble in Birmingham on the 20th of May ; if this
were not done t hecountry would imagine they were de-
termined to continue their sittings in London to an in-
definite p•riod.--(Hear, hear.)
Mr. BUSSEY—Does Mr. O'Connor recollect that on
Monday, the 20th, will be held the simultaneous
tnaetin2s?
Mr. O'CONNOR forgot that, but in order that the
question might bi.t settled. he would shape it. that they
might assemble in Birmingham as soon as the simult:t-
ncous meetings had been held through the country ;
and that Mr. Collins and Mr. Pitkeithley should pro-
ceed to make such arrangements fOr the assembling of
the Convention there, and for the personal accommoda-
tion of the Delegates as might seem to them advisable.
The CHAIRMAN decided that Mr. O'Connor's amend-

'rent could not be put, upon whieh frentlemen gay.,
it in as notice of a gubsianlial tion for to-tnorro,..
upon v.bich the names e.,:re c,ilktl over, aryl nfte•r th,
daily vote of thanks 1 a l I;en flivvn to Mr. Deegan
for his conduct in the chair, the meeting 'dissolved.

METROPOLITAN POLITICAL
SUMMARY•