The Sun.
London, England, 1839-04-27 00:00:00

EVENING EDITION.

_ .
Sir G. SINCLAIR brought up a Report (which
yens read by the Clerk) from the Committee on the
Manchester and Lefeds Railway Bill, statine. the Com-
mittee had been regularly appointed in accordance' with
the Standing Orders of the House, that they had as-
sembled at twelve o'clock, and waited one hour, at
which time two Members only were present, and as
three were requirA for the election of a Chairman they
bad no power to proceed to business, but had deter-
mined to select a tettporary Chairman to report this
circumstance to the House. He moved that the Report
be laid on the table.
Lord G. SOMERSET wished to know, from the
Hon. Member for Oxford, whether the Members re-
ferred to had or not given their assent to sit.
Mr. ESTCOURT said that the gentlemen absent
were silected in the usual way to sit on the Committee,
acid it.Arthe order of the Committee of Selection, that
the7tOotalt a Member was elected the clerk should write
and inform him of it, stating on which Committee he was
selected, Ind' tie hour at which it would sit. That
course had been adopted in the present case, and no
objection had been raised by the Members selected, with
the exception of the Hon. Member for Warwickshire,
who stated that it would .bosimpossible for him to
attend the Committee on Tuesday uext ; but he did
not state that he would not be lichls
..to attend that
day. If the Hon; Member had cFtilis' down to lay,
the Committee might have been constituted with per-
fect regularity. At the present moment ho had no
alteration to propose to the plan at present in exist-
ence, but he was sure, if any Hon. MeMber hAd any
alteration to suggest, the Committee of Seleetjit-were
not such bigots as to disregard such suggeltioiX"V.
Mr. WILSON PATTEN thought when Members
were selected, the Clerk should ask them whether they
would serve or not, and if they refused to do so, then
that other Members should be selected. The greatest
Possible inconvenience had occurred in consequence of
the Committee not sitting to-day both to counsel and
Witnesses, of the former of whom no less than 12 were in
attendance, and of the latter between 50 and 60, all of
whom had come from a great distance, and were anxious
I ar.eturn as soon as
(
'Totting possible. He saw no means of
out of the. diffiy an answer could be
;ot from Members whether:they would attend or note
Mr. ESTCOURT observed that the Committee
of Selection had received very few letters from Hon.

Members who had been selected, stating their unwilling-
ness to attend.
Mr. SHAW LEFEVRE was sorry the inconveni-
ence had taken place which had been alluded to, but he
could not see how it was to be remedied unless the plan
proposed by the Hon. Member for Lancashire was
adopted.
After a few words from Mr. LASCELLES,
Sir G. STRICKLAND said he could not help
thinking that a great deal too much importance was at-
tached to the question. Eighteen Members were pre-
sent, two of whom were selected Members, and it was
absurd to think that they could in any way influence the
decision of the Committee. It appeared to him that
the regulation relative to the selection of Members
must be altered. Of the five Members only who
were noticed, three were obliged to attend. They only
received a notice from a clerk, which in most cases
was very little attended to ; and as the Agents for a
Bill did not know who the selected Members were,
they could not exercise any influence over them in
requesting their attendance. If some alteration was
not made, it would create much difficulty, and entail
enormous expense upon the parties.
Mr. GREENE differed altogether from the Hon.
Bart. opposite if he thought there ought to be no se-
lected Members. It was a perfect delusion if the
House decided that there should be selected Members,
and that they did not attend. One of the reasons that
had been alleged for appointing these selected Members
was that if the Members locally interested went
always one way,and theselected Nlembers,whohad no such
inducements, another, it would make out a prima facie
case that. they had not been guided altogether by strict
impartiality. One of the greatest advantages of the
Present system was that the Members selcted were
not known to the Agents for the Bill, as a system of can-
vas of a grossly improper nature was frequently carried
on to ensure the attendance of Members. On these
grounds he should most certainly vote in favour of the
present s} stem.
Mr. C. WOOD had taken some part in the proceed-
ings of the Committee, and he must say that he fully
concurred in the observations of the Hon. Member who
had last spoken, while he differed from the lion. Baro-
net (Sir G. Strickland). Unless the attendance of these
selected Members was enforced, he feared the system
would not be found to work well. One of the objects
of the Committee in bringing the question forward,
was to make Honourable Members aware of the im-
portance of the subject—(Hear, hear)—and to
show that they ought not to absent themselves
on any light grounds. If an answer was sent stating
the grounds on which they could not attend, the Corn-
mittee might be enabled to select other hlembers in
their stead. There was another question before the
House, and that was, what was to become of the Com-
mittee on the Bill—whether it would sit again as a mat-
ter of course, or require an order of that House to re-
vive it? That was a question which ought to be
decided before the subject was dropped.
Lord GRANVILLE SOMERSET thought the
Committee could not meet again without being revived,
and would move that it be revived as soon as the pre-
sent question was disposed of. He thought it would
be necessary to have a little more notice given to the
Members selected.
Mr.M. PHILLIPS begged leave to state one instance
to the House of the necessity for some clear and defi-
nite resolution of the House upon the subject. In one
Committee to which he belonged, within these four days
a meeting was called, but it appeared on the Votes they
were to meet for the purpose of adjourning, and in conse-
quence of that notice four gentlemen neglected to attend.
They offered themselves when the Committee next met,
but inasmuch as the Committee had proceeded to the
election of a chairman and they were not present, they
were excluded. In the instance before the House, he
thought that, inasmuch as the Committee had not been
formed, it stood in the same situation as that House
when no House was made. It was absolutely necessary
that some definite rule should be laid down to prevent
these unpleasant circumstances, and the great expense
they led to.
The Report was laid on the table.
Lord G. SOMERSET then moved that the Cora.
mittee on the Manchester and Leeds Railway have
leave to meet and proceed with their business on
Monday,
Sir G. SINCLAIR said the Noble Lord had anti-
cipated him in the motion he would have felt it his
duty to make, as Chairman of the Committee.
Agreed to.
On the motion of Lord SEYMOUR the Railway
Communication Committee obtained leave to report from
time to time. And on the motion of Sir JAMES
GRAHAM it was ordered to be printed.
Mr. W. ATT WOOD presented two petitions from
individuals in Greenwich against the Greenwich Rail-
way Bill.
Sir R. BATESON presented several petitions from
Presbyterian congregations in the north of Ireland,
complaining that the Presbyterian soldiers were quite
destitute of religious instruction for themselves and chil-
dren. They stated that the Roman Catholics and the
Church of England soldiers were marched to church
after parade, and they prayed that, as a great proportion
of the army belonged to the Scotch or Presbyterian
Church, they might be put on an equality at least with
Catholics. Also a petition against the Irish Municipal
Reform Bill.
Mr. Alderman THOMPSON presented a petition
from Bishop Wearmouth, for the protection and en-
couragement of the Established Church in Canada.
Also, a petition from the Governors of Bethlehem Hos-
pital against the Bill for the better ordering of prisons.
Mr. LA «' presented petitions against the Eccle-
siastical Duties and Revenues Bill, signed by 21 Cler-
gymen of the Deanery of Houlton, 26 Clergymen of the
Rural Deanery of Surrey, and the Dean and Chapter
of Ely.
Col. CONOLLY presented a petition from the
Grand Jury of the Queen's County, praying that there
may be r,o alteration in the Corn-laws.
Col. RUS H BROOKE presented a petition in favour
of National Religious Education.
Mr. LOCKHART presented a petition from Argyle
in favour of Church Extension.
PENNY POSTAGE.
Sir J. WALSH presented a petition from Sudbury
in favour of a Penny Postage.
Lord SEYMOUR presented a petition to the same
effect.
Mr. H. BERKELEY presented a similar petition
from the Chamber of Commerce, Bristol.
Mr. LASCELLES presented a petition from
Wakefield, in favour of the penny postage.
Mr. MORGAN JOHN O'CONNELL, presented
petitions from various places in the county of Kerry, in
favour of the Irish Municipal Reform Bill ; and also
petitions in favour of a uniform system of penny
postage.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL presented a petition
against the Beer Bill ; also a petition in favour of the
New Poor-law Amendment Act.
ROYAL MARINES.
Capt. BOLDERO gave notice that he should on
Monday next, move for a return of the amount of pensions
to which Non-Commissioned Officers in the Royal Ma-
rines were entitled, after 23 years' service ; and a similar
return relating to the pension of the Non-commissioned
officers in the line after a simil-tr period of service; he
hoped no delay would take place in laying those returns
before the House, as he intended making them the foun-
dation of a motion, having for its object to do away with
the two years additional service imposed on the Marines.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL postponed the second
reading of the Beer Bill to Monday next.
TURKEY AND EGYPT.
Mr. lIUME had wished to ask a question of the
Noble Lord the Secretary for Foreign Affairs, of
which he had given that Noble Lord notice : he had
waited three or four days, but that Noble Lord had
not yet appeared in his place; he would be in his place
on Monday. He was desirous of asking whether the
news which had arrived of the commencement of hos-
tilities between Mehemet Ali and the Porte was cor-
rect, and if so, how far our Government had interfered
between the parties?
LORD JOHN RUSSELL said that no intelli-
gence had been received of the commencement of hos-
tilities between the Porte and Mehemet Ali, that the
policy of this Government was to maintain both parties
in the position in which they were placed by the last
Treaty.
Mr. HUME was glad to hear this intelligence, as
be had been afraid of the occurrence of another un-
toward event.
IMPRISONMENT FOR DEBT BILL.
Mr. BAINES wished to ask his Hon. and Learned
Friend the Attorney-General, whether he was aware
that notwithstanding the passing of the Act of the last
Session abolishing imprisonment for debt, that there
were at present in the different gaols of the kingdom
hundreds, he might say thousands, of poor debtors kept
in confinement, owing to the necessity which existed,
from the construction put upon this Act, for their sure-
ti,s appearing personally to justify their bail in open
Court in London ? And whether he had any objection
to introduce into his Bill now before the House for
amending the Act referred to, a clause empowering the
Insolvent Debtors' Court to appoint proper persons in
the country as Commmissioners to take the recog-
nizances of the sureties under such circumstances as
would Aire personal appearance of the bail in
LoLongssary.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said he had re-
cceived from all quarters the most gratifying intelli-
gence respecting the operation of the Act for the Abo-
lition of Imprisonment for Debt. It was working most
beneficially, and without any detriment to creditors ; and
and those who at first opposed it were now the most
favourable to it. Ile was aware of the defect to which
his Hon. Friend had alluded, and had consulted the
Learned Judges upon it. Lord Denman was good
enough to say he would take the opinion of his
Learned Brothers upon it, and communicate the result
to him (the Attorney-General). The moment that
communication was made he would be glad to meet
the difficulty by amending the late Bill or introducing
a substantive measure.