The Sun.
London, England, 1839-08-24 00:00:00

EVEN F, ;!. FT) T 1 ONT.

at) open (y.testion wottiti to
Gov,rratten h,.1 the of
evAl

dolt, the makin
TH—Elo7o it.

eel who professed themselves Hetet mers, itt exact proportion ars
they were really desirous of accelerating the great march of
Reform. Therefore it was that they were heard to say, the
Whigs are deceivers ever"—(Laughter)—" To one thing
constant never"—( Hear, hear, and laughter)—and were now
adding so their song, " Why then this sighing ? lea the dear
deceiver go."—( Loud laughter.) Now, a few words as to the
Education question. It was the greatest possible infatuation
in men to bring forward a plan of Education just large enough ~
to excite the greatest storm of the Church and the Conser-
vatives against it and against them, but so utterly insignifi-
cant, in comparison, as not to be worth a struggl oa the part
of their friends. They wanted to do by a minute of the Privy
Council what they could have equally done without any such
Minute. It was not a national plan of Education, nothing like
it, but a mere establishment of a single school. And there 4.39
an opposition and an agitation against it—for Reformers were
not the only agitators, and wherever there was a clrrgyman
and his staff in the Tory int rest there was never wanting the
metsri aof a religious, or rather an irreligious agitation, so
often as any party purpose was to be forwarded, and
the storm of opposition was raised, not so much
against the wretch d scheme for appropriating 30,000/.
in a peculiar way, but against the general principles
of the (government—(Hear, hear)—and they thought all the
while it was solely against their little plan—( Laughter) -and
so they threw it out of window, and were surprised to find that
the storm raged as loud as ever—( Hear, hear, and laughter)—
like the Catholic wko. eating a savoury omelet on a Friday, and
hearing a tremen ous thunder-storm, supposed it was all on
account of the omelet, and threw it away, but was astonished
to find that the storm did not cease.—( Laughter.) hen
as to the Admiralty Bill. The Noble Viscount was sur-
prised that he (Lord Brougham) should have joined in
throwing it out, 'seeing that he had asked for such a Bill.
Now, he had not asked for such a Bill. It was the reverse
of what he wanted. He wished for a Bill, certainly giving the
Learned Judge of the Court 4,0001. a year fixed salary, but
' disqualifying him from sitting in Parliament. Yet this Bill
continued this anomaly, and also allowed the fright-
ful abuse—degrading alike to bar and bench —of
permitting the Judge to dispense a load of patronage,
As to the opposition to the Bill being prompted by hostility to
the Learned Judge (Dr. Lushington), that could not be
charged against him, as he was a very intimate friend of that
learnnett person, and had given him fair notice of the opposition
which duty compelled him to make to the measure; and if it
had net been for the lateness of the hour when the Bill was
produced, he ( Lord B ) would have made the alterations he
suggested in Committee. As to the great weight of his Right
Hon. Friend in the other i louse being the cause of objection to
him he did not think that that was at ail a feasible expliinns ton,
reuet, le, a coestitutienel grentel. The Right lien, Genti•
elan Lee great merit. as so ,elvoesie when at the hat. ate!
was at the et 'sent moment so able. an honest, and an ingot-
tial Judge, and he had also great power of debate in Parha-
meta ; but, that he was so fermidable as to be the cause of the
clause to. t lit d been teeirre i t', he must say was untrue. He
had. however, thus fns a for idable, indeed he might say a
frightful character, that lie was a Judge as well as a debater:—
( Hear, hear. 1 He should not have adverted to these matters,
had they not. been referred to by the Noble Viscount opposite :
and with these observations he would leave the subject in the
harts of their Lordships.
The Duke of WELLINGTON, having been referred to in
so pointed a manner, felt it impossible to refrain from
saying a few words. He highly commended the course that
had been adopted by his Noble and Learned Friend
( Lord Lyndhurst), in taking that opportunity of review-
ing the measures and questions that had and had not
been brought before the House by the Government.
His Noble Friend had naturally commenced with those mea-
sures which were announced in her Majesty's Speech at the
commencement of the Session ; and it was most singular to
observe, that not one of those measures had been brought
forward.—( Hear, hear.) That certainly was a strange mode
of proceeding. It had been said that he, the Duke of Welling-- •
ton and his party could not carry on the Government. Al-
lowing that to be so, all he was anxious for was that there
should really be a Government in the country. It certainly
had not been governed for some years past, but he was in hopes
the Noble Viscount would pursue a different course in futures
He would advise the Noble Viscount in future, before he in-
eserted measures into the Speech of her Majesty to be prepared
with them, in order that they might be introduced the moment
Parliament met after that Speech was delivered. They would
then be properly considered, and would be looked upon as the
measures of Ministers, and not of a party.—( Hear, hear.)
He desired to see a real Government in the country for many
reasons ; and among those was his desire to see the colonies of
the country settled and governed in a proper manner, and an
the establishments fixed and protected. He would not advert
to Canada, except for the purpose of referring to what had
been stated by the Noble Viscount with respect to his (the
Duke of Wellington) conduct on that subject. The Noble
Viscount had been pleased to advert to opinions corning
from him as opinions coming from authority, at the
time when he thought proper to complain of his differing ,
from his opinions ; but if those opinions did come from autho-
rity, it would have been better for him to have followed
then. than to have complained of his delivering them.--
(Hear; hear, hear.) Upon the very subject of Canada,
he believed that the Nob e Viscount knew that from
the time Caneda was mentioned in that Ho, us,. to the present
moment he h'itl never ',tiered his opieions. He had, if he we'
tint 'tiistaken, supported the Noble Lord's Bill on the subject of
Cal-lade, both iu its principles and its details. When the Noble
Lord had prevailed up n the House to pass an Act giving .
authority to send out a Governor-General to Canada, the Noblel
Viscount should have taken care that it had been properly care
ri, d into effect, and he must not blame him if it was not. With
respect. to Jamaica, he did not know that he had ever said any- e
',ewe with re,eeet. to that country, or taken any course relative::
to it but that which he thougto it his duty to pursue, in order.
;to ensure the authority of the Assembly of Jamaica. What
he had said was, that when the Government had taken upon ~
itself to govern the country, he hoped they would do that which
would esetblish a real and effective Government in each °l',
the Colonies, for though they were peaceable before the Jibe-
, ration of the slaves, he would venture to state since the pass-
liito of tleit measure there was no s tciety in the world in a
greater state of disorganiz eion and anarchy than that which at
present existed in the Colonies. No eountries were ITIOre,
capable of being well governed, and it, only required the Noble
Marquis to do his OW/1 duty mill ant allow faction is interfere.
The Noble Viseoulit. lead mad,, a complaint of his ceitonet with'.
respect to Portugal ; now as to that he had tees, steesd tes
opinions and the reasons for voting as he had dons•. He l!acii:
said not coiromt as to the Bill which wits thrown unreel
hi' had votA in a very.:ii?2tiiltyon din second BRIT
Who had not the Noble Loot followed his aclviert, and to:senS
another' course on that occa,ion ? Having s •id thus rout n,
hiving sito-,vn that the ti.ivernitictit of the et.tuitriesbea not
I exercised the poriiT and ninth-nee which any other Goceen-
,
meet sweet have Itee in it case of enterer,
is nee, and from which
:eel resulted pr :;t iikiisrou, state of their foreign, do- ,
eies; it.. and Col iota! ,al'i't. he would go a step further, anti shows
their Lordships that there was something most dero-
gatory atel degrading to the character of that coun-
tryt and of its Government in the course which
had been pursued dur,ng the present Session.—(Hear.)'
He would just refer to the conduct of the Government on the
Lisa Batik dill, in which the hono:ir end the character, and
the credit of the i lovernment was involved. Why the Right
Hon. Gentleman at the head of the financial department of the,
country—(the Chancellor of the Exchequer)--was unable to
carry the measure for more than one year instead of four, as,
was originally intended, merely to slow to the parties in Ireland'
to carry on certain speculations in banking, which he feared:
would be most disastrous to the commercial prosperity of
the country. The Noble Lord opposite had attempted
to attribute the disturbances which had lately
taken place in England,sto the opposition the measures of the
Government had met with in their Lordships' Houle. Now'
he challenged the Noble Lord to mention any one
pleasure
brought forward for the redress of the grievances of the peoPlt
which had been rejected or opposed by his (the Duke of Wa'T
lington's) side of the House. And as he had gone so far on the
subject, he would take leave to say that he had taken
an opposite view of the matter, and that it appeared to
him they had originated in the unnoticed and unpunished
combinations of political unions, trades unions, and other
illegal combinations among workmen, to force (Alert
to abandon their work, or to work at prices differe'
from those at which they had agreed to work for their ogle
ployers.e The armed parties who had gone about the country
was a part of the same system, their object being to drive the
workmen, whether employed in manufactories in collieries
elsewhere from their work and to destroy the machinery ani`e,
capital of the manufacturers—thus striking at the very root 0,
all employment and the means of existence of the people—the
foundations of the manufactures and commerce of the country,
and the very source of all its prosperity. To these causes /!
attributed the disturbances that had taken place, and above all
to the injudicious selection of magistrates which had been mao
in the Municipal Corpo ations, and more especially in those,
towns to which corporations had been lately granted,
namely, Manchester, 13irm'ngham, Bolton, . and others.
These riots would never be put down till the Government filled
up the • stablishments—they must raise their establishments to
their full fo. ce. He would venture to assert that in these di...-
nutted districts they had not establishments, equal tt,
the half of the usual peace estsbltshmen s. They 01.'dat
carry into execution the laws upon those who were tried sod
convicted, and so put an end re the cause of Chartiseo. He
apologized fin- detaieing them so long, but he tit he -would not
have sitseharetel his duty had he upon that accatdoo said less.
Viscount MELBOURNE explained. He did not mean to
say that the disturbance; had arisen out of any opposition ()fret ed
by their Lordships to measures for the redress of grievaneesa
Ho !old alludes to their opposition to the Reform Bill.
The Marquis of NOitNl ANBY would promise their
LODIShip,, that at that hour of the night he would not ;detain them
loog, but. he wished to say a few words in consequence of what
had fallen from the Noble Duke. There could be no result 01
that discussion, or it would have been brought forward at an
earlier period ofthe Session, and at a tine when more of their
Lordships were present. Had it been intended to test the con-
fidence of the House in the Government, they would have been
favoured with the opinion of mere of their Lordships 10'1
usually occupied the benches opposite. The Noble Duke had
given -him advice which he would be glad to accept, if the in-
formation of the Noble Duke were correct. He wished him, he
and
liad
tileismi
hrinuofoorhtomut
eoi
e.
siox_afall allow
presiding that
it:
sbaoidlotuoe,ghoyvefiamettihweisC. olosnaiieese himself,he
ouse
istsi
to Jamaica
cj rai
Noblem tat
iocp)
taantrd'aaeuendetdehbi factions
been
issue sec'swh o
Westt conductllaid y
Iss:7,ll:sneed,
ingeoerr;
believe
re thate hspa
ed his diddia
tvn, ies teh.l-,,1
With
the people
ptihee
oNfobtlheethiisklaen,tiva,'i of
(Hear, hear, hear.) He would not refer to either of the
Jamaica Bills, as he did not wish to stir up old grievances;
and also because he had great hopes that Governor
_ the new
tl
would be able to smooth all difficulties. The Noble Duke 111
been informed that the Island was • tools'
not sate for property.
the last despatche 'sl
s eat property had risen 20 per ca within a ver
y short time, and the people were in a quiet VC'
gtghretr:ttaeette,
contented state. Then, with respect to Upper Canada, it lc°
well known that there was great irritation in the minds of twat
parties in that country. The report of the late Governor hed !
been received differently by the different parties, and Sir
Arthur begged that no legislation should take place at presen',
as there was no chance of its being received with a beneficial
effect. Then, with respect to Newfoundland : early in the Ses-
sion two petitions had been presented from that Colony, and
.
had directed an inquiry into their allegations. The Report had
_
only lately been received—he could at present merely say that to
state of society in that colony had been very much exaggerate
u
With respect to the motion, he could not but express his sur-
prise, that if there were so much want of confidence in the
t
House of Commons and the people, it was extreeordinarY
i lie motion should have been reserved for the last days of the
_
Session—a time when the benches of bock Houses were v.
generally empty. The Noble and Learned Lord near hem
( Lord Brougham) he must say,
-till made a most extraordinaryrn
charge against the Governmena, and had said that the Gooveeca.
ment had altered thole- conduct on a
Now
barge
slim on the demito esti' the late Soeereign. Now, to a c
of that kind he eiouhl only give a positive denial. He denied-
there was now, or ever had been, on the part of the Govern
ment a dispessitien to resist any measure of well-considered
ns
re-
form. Upon well-co
the principles of progressive reform, _ „les
sideved and adapted to the circumstances of the times, tne,
vernonent was formed, and on those principles they had a 1)
acted. Then it was said, it was a great misfortune teo lv,
the
(the
country that no legislative measures were carried ; but he
Marquis of Normanby), had not heard a remedy suggested forse
that state of things, anti he did not conceive -
parties
D` by any change in the relative positOn of
sie.
tlae progress of legislation would t 4 greatly inctea et-s
With reference to the sweeping yep, re that had been man'