The Sun.
London, England, 1837-12-08 00:00:00

of Commons would•render itself contemptible ; because this
would be practical tyranny, that a majority not daring to
amend an old or enforce a new law, and unable to pronounce
a certain action a breach of privilege, would still attempt, by a
is,,te of a majority, to degrade those who did it.—( Hear,
Lear, hear.) Let them once take that course, and they would
find such an arbitrary exercise of power would proycl:e oppo-
sition and induce men to glory in that which they denounced,
and persons would challenge them to exercise their rower by
enLreing the very principles which they condemnrd.—( Hear,
hear.) The Honourable Gentleman (Mr. S. O'Brien)
appeared to have brought forward a very extraor-
dinary proposition. —( Hear,) He considered that he had
R right as an in lividual to complain upon this subject ; he said
that it was intended to displace Roman Catholic Members ;
and yet that Hon. Member himself, who was the only peti-
tioner against the subscriptions, happened to be a Protestant.
—(Cheers and laughter.) If he was not right in this state-
ment, the Hon. Gentleman could correct him. Now, he said,
notwithstanding the at'ack that had been made upon the Hon.
Baronet, he had derived nothing but credit—( Cries of " Oh,
oh," from Members on the Ministerial benches)--nothing; but ,
credit—( Repeated cries of " Oh, oh," and cheers)—nothing,,
he repeated it, but credit, from the manly course of 168 pro.
ceeding.—(Cheers from the Opposition Members.) Hon.
Gent'emen opposite had taunted the Hon. Baronet whh in-
consistency; could that inconsistency proceed from any dis-
honourable or dishonest cause ? What reward could the
Honourable Baronet hope for? The position of the Honour.
able Baronet enabled him to look down upon the imputation of
unvrorthrmotives.—( Cheers from Opposnion Members.) He
did not admit of the charge of inconsistency as being applic-
able to the Honourable Baronet.—( Cries of " Oh, oh I" from
Members on the Ministerial benches.) He had long been
opposed to the Honourable Baronet ; but the position of the
Honourable Baronet at that moment was that of many other
individtvils of the highest character, respectability, and intel-
ligence in itist country.—( Hear, hear, from Opposition Mem-
bers.) The Honourable Baronet had struggled for Parlia-
mentary Reform—h 6 had assailed in violent language the
usurpation of the Peers arrl the boroughmongering system ;
but he had never heard of the Honourable Baronet, even at
the most inflamed periods of party politics—he never heard
of him saying that when Reform was granted that he wanted
to sec the privileges of the Monarchy, or of the House of
Peers, in the slightest degree invaded.—( Cheers from Opposi-
tion Members, and cries of Oh, oh I" from the Ministeria
benches.) The Honourable Baronet's had :been A perfectly
honest and consistent course ; he it was who mainly by his
efforts had substituted for the former representation t% at
which now prevailed. It was perfectly consistent in the Hon.
Baronet, when he had attained that which he had sought fur,
that he should rest satisfied, and that when an encroachment
was made upon other constituent bodies of the Legislature,
he; having the acuteness to perceive, had the meanliness to
face the attacks that might be made upon him, when he stood
up to oplose the attacks that might be made upon the privi-
leges of the Monarchy and the Peerage.—(Cheers from the
Opposition Members.) The Hon. Baronet did struggle for
Roman Catholic Emancipation as it was called. He was
amongst the most powerful and the most successful advocates
of that measure. The Roman-Catholics of Ireland entertained
a different opinion of the Hon. Baronet from that which the
Honcurable and Learned Gentleman the Member for Dub-
lin expressed, when upon two occasions they saw the Ho-
ncurable Bo: onet bringing forward the Roman Catholic pe-
titions; and when he (Sir R. Peel) read those expressions
of gratitude for the Honourable Baronet's services which
had flowed from the Roman Catholics of Ireland, he scarcely
expected that one of the chief amongst the Roman Catholics
of Ireland would denounce the Honourable Baronet, not only
for the present opinions which he entertained, but on account
of his past political conduct, asserting that in his youth and
throughout his manhood he (Sir Francis Burdett) had done
no good whatever to the popular cause—the cause of which
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman was so strenuous an advo-
cate. Here again they found the Honourable Baronet con-
tending for the complete relief of the Roman Catholics from
their disabilities, and the annihilation of all distinctions on ac-
count of differences in religion : but they never yet had heard
the Hon. Baronet maintain it as a necessary consequence of
the.removal of the Roman Catholic disabilities that the secu
rities of the Protestant Church should be endangered. And
again, having succeeded in removing these disabilities, and plac-
ing the Roman Catholics on a footing of perfect equality,
so far from its being inconsistent, it was real consis-
t( ncy ; it was real conformity with every principle which the
Hon. Baronet had everavowed, to say, " Now these disabilities
are removed, I shall not, if I can prevent it, endanger the se-
curity of the Protestant institutions."—(Loud cheers.) And
here again, seeing the injustice and the danger, and having
the manliness to perceive it, the Honourable Baronet said he
would stand there, as he had done, with respect to the
Peerage and the Crown. He would make his stand there
in defence of the Protestant Establishments of' the country.

Mr. T. DUNCOMBE rose amidst loud cries of " QUes-
tion and Divide !" He thought the reasons stated by his
Hon. and Learned Friend the Member for Southwark were
most powerful. Well might that Honourable and Learned
Gentleman say that the public, when they beard that the
House had spent six or seven hours in the debate this evening,
would think that the time of the House had been most use-
lessly expended. The whole had been a farce—the farce of
Much Ado about Nothing.—( A laugh.) They would come
to no-decision relative—(Cries of Question, question I")
What decis;on could they come to unless they agreed to the
amendment of his Hon. and Learned Friend? Whit did the
motion of the Hon. Member for Limerick mean ? It meant
to cast a vote of censure on the Honourable Baronet the Mem-
ber for North Wilts. It was quite clear, from what the Noble
Lord (Lord Jcbn Russell) had said, that the House was not
prerar.d to agree to that vote of censure. He, (Mr. Dun-
combo) for one, was not prepared to say that because the
Noble Lord had subscribed 20/. to some fund or other, that
tberef.re he was capable of so much dishonesty as that he
wou.7d not adjudicate fairly upon a Committee.—(Loud
cheers.) He could only say that if he were a petitioner or pe-
tioned ag3inst, he would be rerfectly ready to leave his case
in the hands ,f the Honourable Baronet..—( Loud cheers.) The
Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell) did not agree with the motion
of the Hon. Member for Limer:ck, nor in the amendment.
In this difficulty what was he (Mr. Duncombe) to do 2—( A
laugh.) The amendment of his Hon. Friend the Member for
Southwark was based on common sense ; it was simply this,
whether the House was prepared to remove the expenses en-
tailed upon petitioners and those petitioned against, who came
before Election Committees. That was the simple question.
Put. down these expenses, and the Spottiswcode gang sub-
scriptions and associations would fall to the ground.—(Loud
cheers. and cries of " Question.") _

Lord CLEMENTS rose amidst a storm of noises, amongst
which the cries of " Divide, divide," were predominant. He
hoped they would allow him to mention the circumstances
which induced him to vote for the motion of the Hon. Mem-
ber for Limerick. He thought that this was not only a ques-
tion of degree, but it was based on the grand principle not
only of interfering with the rights of the Irish Members in
that House, but afro of disfranchising a large class of voters
in Ireland—not fictitious or fraudulent voters, but persons
whose property was of a value to entitle them to vote. It was
to protect this class of voters, that he was anxious to put down
this conspiracy. •
Mr. O'BRIEN rose to reply. As he understood, the situa-
tion in which the House was piaced was this—the majority
agreed in thinking that this proceedinr, was unconstitutional.
Nor no.) The majority agreed with in thinking that
it was inequitable that the same person should be judge and
prosecutor ; but he observed this, that such was the univer-
sal practice on both sides of the House, that they could not
come to a division, without passing a condemnation en them-
selves. That he believed was the real state of the case, and
that was the reason why he had not the support of Govern
ment ; and, as he was not supported by Government, it was
no great boast on the part of the Right Hon. Baronet that he
would obtain a majority. The Right Hon. Baronet might
enjoy his triutnpli. He had enjoyed one last night over a new
_Member who was unacquainted with the forms of the House;
and now he might enjoy a triumph over him (Mr. O'Brien),
for'as soon as he heard that .his motion Auld not he sup-
ported by Government he despaired of success. But the
discussions that bad taken place would do good ; they would
convince the country and the House of the necessity of doing
something to alter the present tribunals, and thereby, to ren-
der the expenses of Election Committees less, crushing to
those whose duty compelled them to have recourse to them.
The SPEAKER inquired of Mr. Harvey whether he
would press his amendment ?

Mr. II A RVE I replied, most decidedly.
The House then divided on Mr. Harvey's amendment,
For the amendment
Against it
. _

Majority against the amendment -298
As soon as this eivision had taken place, the House affain
divided on Mr. O'Brien's motion, when the numbers were
For the motion
Apinst it
Majority against the original motion -210
The Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the
House adjourned at a quarter past three o'clock.

JANE LOMA X, OR A MOTHER'S CRIME..--If
we are _.not misinformed as to the nature of Mr. Horace
Smith's new work, the title of it will afford a proper indica-
catiou of the kind and quality of its materials, which arc said
to appeal to that universal sympathy which is felt by the
world with those stirring or startling events which grow out
of its every day routine. A high tragedy may be the greatest
alert of pootry ; but we doubt if the highest tragedy extant
ever excited one half of the deep and heartfelt interest which
bas been over and over again called forth by some strange
and mysterious crime springing up in the paths of daily life.
Mr. Horace Smith has deeply cm.ditated on the nature of the
human mind in this respect, and has chosen the materials of
his new rommic, accordingly. We are justified, therefore, in
anticipating a:at it will surpass in popularity all his previous
works.

COLBURN'S NEW MONTHLY MAGAZINE AND
iinfOURIST, EDITED BY TrignponE HOOK, ESQ.—The num-
ber for December brings with it substantial proof of the
knowledge and the fancy, the invention 'and the observation,
the wit and good humour, that anirr.ate the " choke spirita"
who have admission to its pages. The Gurney Papers are
continued with their usual spirit and humour, and Captain
Marryst relates a story of " most romantic" interest, under
the title of " The Sky-blue Domino," We have a pleasaLt
C• fteter cn Life in the East, by Mr. Quin, and a rich collec-
. ''43.fl' Wstorical memoranda, under the head of the
.IManao4. oiiaook—quite a feast in its way—comprising
7
k';')itiel*te.,o lea Matthews, and gossip about Mrs. Mar-
"?';:rhn. - But r ' en than this is the opening paper of the
_. --.lini*iriat, 'Lfi tonian one, by the author of " Paul Pry,"
.7,l2,esiiiig the •••60 cent title of " The Life and Times of the
aatcr. Captain P : ' thus Nix, L. P. L. V." It is full of
c
lart lery *l4l g, because not ill-natured, satire.
44' &

The publication of TIIR SUN NEWSPAPRR commenced this daN
at 10 minutes past Three o' Clock.