The Sun.
London, England, 1837-04-20 00:00:00

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esful arguments the only oppeal was o isist 4- •
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clination to discontinue a system which m ' tHiecAiseredit
ht
and disgrace. The House was told that if liaoeibist'coUrse
were abandoned there might be a bonfire at St. Petersborg, or
rejoicings in the camp of Don Carlos. Much better would it
be that they should see the light of that bonfire—much betttir
• would it be that they shoell hear those acclamations, than
that they should feel the remorse of conscience which must re-
sult from persevering in is system of warfare, the justice of
which there was every reason to doubt, and the erroneous po-
licy of which experience had completely established.
' Lord J. RUSSELL—Sir, at this late hour of the morning I
shall not detain the House for more than a very few minutes ; but
I cat not omit adverting to an explanation which the Right Hon.
Gentleman has attempted to give upon one part of the question
under discussion_a part of it which, though much pressed, has
not been yet answered. The question, sir, has been asked, but
it has not, I repeat, been answered, why is it that this particular
time should have been selected ?—( Oh ! oh ! from the Opposi-
tion.) Yes, Sir, I repeat, Why is it that this particular time
should have been selected for this discussion ?—( Hear.) Why
was it not brought forward at an earlier period of the session.?
It was known that the night before Christmas an action had been
fought at Bilboa, and that that action furnished Hon. Nlember a
opposite with precisely the same arguments, because it was at-
tended with the same circumstances as the cases which they had
relied upon in this debate. The English Marines took a part is
that action, and the part they took was against the BasquesL-
fighting-, as the Right Hon. Baronet contended, for their liber-
ties. Our seamen were engaged, assisting with our boats, man-
ning batteries, working guns, and performing all the necessary
operations of a war. The Parliament assembled on tile 31st
of January, and the speech from the Throne with which it
was opened, after expressing a regret at the continuance Of
the civil war in Spain, spoke of the events at Bilboa. Sir,
there was scarcely a debate upon these words, although we
conceived they were the very strongest words we could have
introduced into the speech ; and we - introduced them for the
purpose of eliciting a discussion upon this very subject. Yet
no discussion took place.—(Cheers.) The House adjou:ned
before eight o'clock, and we did not then hear any thing of
those tremendous evils ; and it was not, I am sorry to say,
until a failure, until this reverse in the arms of the Legion
afforded the proper opportunity that the Right Honourable
Gentleman thought fit to bring forward the question. Ido
confess, Sir, that I very much lament the course that the
Right Hon. Gentleman has deemed it proper tp pursue. I
think the Right lion. Gentleman would have acfed with more
fairness, not to say generosity, had he brought forward his ques-
tion at a moment, as he might have done, when these troops had
won honour, and not suffered a disaster. But, Sir, n-e shall
decide this ques:ion upon its general policy, and I am
sure that even from the details that have been offered to the
House they will not be disposed to think that English pride
has been in any degree hurt, or that a brand has been put
on the forehead of our national character.--( Cheers.) But
the question is now brought forward because the Right Hon.
Gentleman says that there may be a new combination of par-
ties to support it ; that some may support it through dislike
of Don Caries, some through a hatred of despotism, some
through a love of Basque privileges, and others because
this case may not be successful. lam sorry, Sir, that for
the purpose of taking advantage of this imaginary com-
bination the disaster of the British Legion should be laid
as the foundation of a party triumph.—( Cheers.) The Right
Hon. and Gallant Officer who brought forward this motion laid
the ground of it, and dwelt chiefly upon the facts discreditable
to the character of the Legion. But he afterwards, when the
question was argued by those who thought there was a want of
generosity in making this reflection, entered into five or six
different explanations. He said he respected, and he bore tes-
timony to the character of Gen. Evans,to him he did not attribute
blame ; in fact, Sir, the Gallant and Right Honourable
Gentleman altogether deprived himself of those grounds
upon which he originally rested respectne- the misconduct
of the Legion—a misconduct which he had' originally repre-
sented as so flagrant that it was necessary for this
House to interpose, in order that an eternal stigma
might not be fixed on the character of British
soldiers.—( Hear, hear, hear.) The Right Honourable and
Gallant Member has been exceedingly unfortunate; for he
was, after all, driven to rest upon the sole testimony of
Major Richardson, whose authority an Honourable Member
had last night been cruel enough utterly to demolish.—
( Cheers.) Allow me, Sir, to say one word with respect
to what has been dwelt upon at so much length—the impolicy
and the injustice of imposing a Constitution, or a particular
form of government, upon any foreign nation. I fully agree,
Sir, with the maxim that has been laid down. But I think,
after all that has been said of the efficiency of the Legion
and of our naval co-operation, it is rather too much to talk of
forcing a Constitution upon such a country as Spain by the aid
of a handful of marisies and a body of raw recruits.--(Cheers.)
Amongst the cases adverted to by my Noble Friend in his
very powerful speech to justify the giving aid and assistance
as it is given under the quadruple treaty, let me refer to the
conduct of our own Whig ancestors in 1688. An Honourable
and Learned Gentleman opposite says, the Revolution was
effected by the people of England. In that general propo-
sition I fully agree ; but I ask that Honourable and Learned
Member—l ask any Member of this House—to real the invi-
tation to the Prince of Orange, signed by Rosebery and De-
vonshire, and Russell and Sydney, and see if he were not
invited to come at the head of a foreign force, with guns and
artillery, and munitions of war? (The noble Lord then read
this invitation, in which they declared their confidence that
the Prince would come with sufficient artillery, munitions,
and engineer sand continued : ) Were these English engineers ?
No ; but they were Dutch. —( Loud cries of" Hear!") And afters
wards, when the rebellion broke out, 6,000 Dutch troops were
marched to Edinburgh, for the purpose of opposing the
Scotch rebels. Now, I ask, Sir, is it so clear that the princi-
ples of our ancestors have been that no foreign assistance
should be allowed in the internal disputes of a ccuntry...—
Hear, hear.) But there is, Sir, a great difference between
allowing assistance—that is, to occupy the capital and the
country—and that secondary assistance given by a foreign
'teflon that has itself a great interest in the establishment
of the Government it so assists. I say, therefore, that his
Majesty's Government has been fully justified in giving as-
sistance of this kind.--( Loud cheering.) I shall not go
into this question in its details, which have been
so fully and so ably treated by my Noble Friend. (Loud
cheers.) But I cannot help, Sir, adverting to some obser-
vations of the Right Honourable Baronet opposite, with
reference to a speech which he himself delivered the other
night. Upon that occasion he spoke of the difficulties of
our foreign policy, and he said that so impressed must Mi-
nisters be with the difficulties and embarrassments by which
they were surrounded, that they only sought a pretext for
abandoning the vessel. Whatever, Sir, may be the course
which his Majesty's Government may think fit to adopt,
whether they remain in office or go out of office, they will,
at all events, in either position, have the satisfaction-
of thinking that the present state of affairs is greatly
mote advantageous to the country than when they assumed
the reins of Government.—( Loud cheering.) To advert to
merely one point of our foreign affairs: the Right Hum
Baronet says that it was only three weeks before his resig-
nation that the Belgian revolution broke out ; but does the
Right Hon. Baronet forget that his Government advised
his Majesty to put into the speech a sentiment approving of
the conduct of the King of Holland, whom it styled " the
enlightened King of the Netherlands," thus pointing him out
as some one that ought to be supported, and indicating that,
if not the physical, at least all the moral support of our Go-
vernment was given to that sovereign ?—( Hear, hear, hear.)
I do not mean to adopt the observation of Lord Ashburton,
though I have considerable respect for the sagacity of
that Noble Lord, and cannot think it can so easily be
put aside as the Right Honourable Baronet seems to suppose ;
but I do think, Sir, that if that course had been adipted,
it would have had the most unwise and unfortunate result
of eventually leading to a general war.—( Hear, hear. hear.)
We had before our eyes the recent revolution of France.
We knew that there existed in that country old associa-
tions of conquest connected with Belgium—old prejudices for
the extension to the boundary of the Rhine—and had you suc-
ceeded in establishing the King of Holland, you would have
seen a war in Europe, without even the termination of esta-
blishin,; the kingdom of Belgium in the end.--( Cheers.) I
need not, Sir, go into our domestic affairs. The Right Hon.
Baronet has reminded me of one fact. He mentions that a
battalion of Foot Guards went down to Woolwich—that they
were obliged to be sent down—in order to replace the Marines.
Nest, allow me, Sir, to explain. My Noble Friend having
mentioned to me that there might he a deficiency of soldiers in
England, I wrote to the Lord- Lieutenant of Ireland, desiring
that he should consult with the Commander of the Forces in
that country to know if any soldiers could be spared. I received
a reply, that the Lord Lieutenant did consult the Commander
of the. Forces, who informed trim that two regiments of infantry
aid one of cavalry might very well be spared.—( Great cheer-
hlg. ) That I believe was not the case in 1330.—( Laughter,
and renewed cheering.) I leave it to the future Ministers,
of whom the Right Honourable Baronet seems to he the re-
presentative, to try if they can remove troops from Ireland,
relying, as I doubt not they will, upon the increaaed colifi-
-1 deuce and attachment of the people of that country.—( Very
great cheering.) NN id: respect to other matters of (lA-
' culty adverted to by the Right. lion. Baronet, the Govern-
ment has about as much to do with them as they have to do
with the nonformation of the French Ministry, of which they
were also accused. There is some commercial embarrass-
ment ; one of those revolutions in trade which a Government
can neither produce nor alter. But there is not, thank Gol !
prevailing that species of discontent that every mail brought
accounts of fresh fires and burnings. There is not that dis-
content in the Metropolis that would prevent his Majesty, if
it pleased him to go to Guildhall, to do so with the most per-
fect safety. [The Noble Lord sat down amid loud and long-
continued cheering.]
The House then divided, when the numbers were-
-242
278
Majority —36
The announcement of the numbers was received with loud
cheers. Upon our return to the gallery we found lien.
Members engaged in a conversation respecting the production
of Dr. Lee's evidence before the Church Commissioners in
Scotland.

Ayes
Noes

The [louse was counted out at Four o'Clock, having pre-
viously agreed to adjourn until Friday.

Lord Lyndhurst is detained in Paris by thy,: con-
tinued indisposition of his daughter, Miss Copley.
NEW NAVAL NOVEL, BY THE AUVItOR OF
" Cavendish." We are requested to state that the new naval
story, entitled " Gentleman Jack," by the author of " Caven-
dish," is published this day by Mr. Colburn, r;i. Groat Marl-
borough-street, and may now be procured of all la')ol:sellcrs.
Agents for Scotland, Bell and Bradfute, EdiavaTh ; for
Ireland, John Cumming,. Dublin.