The Sun.
London, England, 1837-12-12 00:00:00

ber of petitions which, from those very places where it was in
operation, had of late been presented. Among those petitions
there were 122 which were signed by as many as 63,796 persons
—( Hear, hear)—praying for amendment in the new Act,
and 104, signed by many thousands for its repeal.—
( Hear, hear.) That was his reply to the statement that
ignorance prevailed upon the matter. Independently of
these petitions, he wished to call the attention of the Noble
Lord (Lord J. Russell) to one which he had during the va-
cation received for the purpose of presenting to that House,
from Stroud, from the constituents of the Noble Lord him-
self—( Hear, hear)—in which the petitioners prayed for the
repeal of the new Act, objecting to a measure which separated
the husband from the wife, and the parent from the child; to
a measure which gave an almost unconstitutional power to a
body of Commissioners, and in which the clauses relating to
bastardy were decidedly calculated to lead to—nay, offered
a premium to—infanticide. They declared their opinion that
such a Bill was opposed to the principles of the Christian reli-
gion-4 Hear, hear)—and as for any decrease in the poor rates
that might be expected from it, such a supposition was a
fallacy, for that the rates would for some time to come be very
much increased, owing to the great expenses of erecting
workhouses, Ste. But what was there to complain of in the
north, at least, in the administration of the old system of
poor laws? No law ought certainly to pass that House un-
less it was shown that it was called for by the existence
of some real grievance, rendering its enactment neces-
sary. As far as he had been able to learn there had
been nothing to complain of in the old system, except that it
was rather too severe on the poor, and that they did not ob-
tain that to which they were entitled. The Hon. Gentleman
then entered into some statements respecting the expenditure
on the Poor-rates under the old system, as contrasted with
the same under the present, and said that in the West Riding
of Yorkshire, of which district Bradford was about the centre,
the expenditure on the Poor-rates in 1831 was at the rate of
five shillings and a penny per head, whereas now in the same
part of the country it only averaged three shillings and eight-
pence.—( Hear, hear.) What, then, was there to complain
of? The Poor Laws had been well administered in the
North ; and, if such was the case—if, as it appeared, the rates
had been gradually going down during the last few years, it
surely was most unnecessary to persist in their endeavours to
carry into effect the New Poor Law Bill in the Northern dis-
tricts of England. The Hon. Member concluded by moving
for the above returns.
Mr. WAKLE Y seconded the motion.
Lord J. RUSSELL had already stated to the Hon. Mem-
ber for Oldham his readiness to give the returns for which he
moved, with some slight modifications. He would shortly
state the reasons why he did not think the names ought to be
given. The Poor Law Commissioners had called on the in.
habitants of Bradford to form a union, and proceed to the
election of a board of guardians for other purposes than the
introduction of the new Poor Law. The course advised by
the Poor Law Commissioners was adopted, and the conse-
quence was that the parties who had acted on their recom-
mendation had been pointed out by placards and bills posted
about the town and neighbourhood as marked men. In these
placards and bills they were designated as tyrants and op-
presiors of the poor, and in some of the paragraphs of those
placards and bills nothing short of assassination was aimed at.
—(Hear, hear.) This being the case, he ,was unwilling to
concur in so much of the Hon. Member's motion as regarded
names. The new Poor Law had, he believed, been introduced
into several places in the north by desire of the boards of guar-
dians. This was the case at Sheffield; and, if he recollected
rightly, also at Wakefield. Now, with respect to Bradford, there
was no intention to make any change in the way in which relief was
administered, further than to place the power exercised by
overseers and vestries in the hands of the Board of Guardians.
No rule or order whatever was sent down by the Commis-
sioners to control the discretion of the Board of Guardians :
but, of course, they would not be at liberty to act otherwise
than in conformity with the new law. He stated last year
that if force were to be opposed to the introduction of the
new Poor-laws into any of the manufacturing districts, be
should feel it his duty to resist all such proceedings, and
when he learned what had taken place at Bradford, and the
means that were used to excite the people of that neigh-
bourhood to interrupt the meetings of the Board of Guar-
dians, he felt it necessary to direct that a military force should
be in readiness to support the civil power.—( Hear.) With re-
spect to the sending of a military force to that town, he had no
hesitation whatever in avowing that the whole responsibility of
such a step rested with him, and he thought that the re-
presentations made to him on the subject fully authorised
the course which he had taken.—( Hear, hear, hear.) When
the Board of Guardians met, their proceedings were not only
interrupted, but an assault was made by the populace on the
house in which they were. Many of the persons composing
these mobs did not, he bad reason to believe, belong to Brad-
ford, but had been brought there for the special purpose of
rioting.—(Hear, hear.) When, however, it was found that
the proceedings of the Board of Guardians could not be pre-
vented, the people dispersed, and all went off quietly and with-
out further disturbance.—(Hear, hear. It was not his wish
to enter into the question as to the introduction of the new
Poor laws into the manufacturing districts. This, however,
be would say, that, although the abuses under the old system
were not so great in the north as in the south, still, as there
were places in the north in which abuses did exist, it was ne-
cessary to correct those abuses as far as possible. He thought
also that it was desirable to have one uniform system pervading
the whole country ; and certainly, as far as he was concerned,
he would do nothing to discountenance such an attempt, no mat-
ter where it might, be made. At the close of the last session he
stated to the Lord-Lieusenant of the West Riding of York-
shire, that it would be best not to introduce the new Poor
Laws into any places of the north except where there was a
facility for doing so, and to this opinion he still adhered.—
( Hear.) With regard to the correspondence mentioned in the
latter part of the Hon. Member's motion, as having taken
place between Mr. Power, the Board of Guardians, and the
Commissioners, all he could say was, that there was no record
of any such correspondence in the office of the Commissioners.
Of course, it would be out of the Commissioners' power to
give such a correspondence ; but still, so far as the correspon-
dence which had taken place, and of which they were in pos-
session, could be produced, without injury to the public ser-
vice, he had no hesitation in saying that it should be laid on
the table, if the Hon. Member desired it.
Mr. FIELDEN would withdraw so much of his notice as
related to the names of the London policemen, but he must
press for the production of the correspondence, in order to
ascertain who the parties
,were who were responsible for the
assembling of a military force at Bradford.
Lord J. RUSSELL had already stated that he was the
party responsible for the employment of the military on the
occasion referred to.
After some conversation as to form betwken the SPEAKIR
and Mr. FIELDEN,
Lord J. RUSSELL withdrew his motion for going into
Supply, in order that Mr. Fielden's notice might stand as an
original motion, and then moved, as an amendment, the omis-
sion of the names.
Mr. BRISCOE said there was one fact stated in the course
of the discussion which had struck him with great force. It
appeared that in the district of Bradford there were 95,000
hand-loom weavers who were able to earn no more than
from 4s. 6d. to ss. a week. These parties must have been
allowed relief under the old system or they could not have
lived, and therefore their resistance to the new, which would
deprive them of all relief, was a matter almost to be expected.
It was perfectly idle to suppose that hand-loom weavers could
compete with the power-looms, and until these persons were
induced to abandon their trade and seek employment in other
pursuits, he could see no means by which their situation could
be bettered.
Mr. G. F. YOUNG, though opposed to the new Poor.laws
had felt it his duty not to interfere with their operation. They
might answer in agricultural districts, but certainly they never
would in the manufacturing districts, where large masses of
the labouring population were frequently thrown out of em-
ployment suddenly End without notice. He thought it any-
thing but right to send the metropolitan police on missions of
this sort to different parts of the country. They were in-
tended for insuring the peace and tranquillity of the metro-
polis, and the inhabitants of London paid 60,000/. a year
for that purpose.
Mr. BROTHERTON had opposed the new Poor-laws on
the ground that they ought not to be made applicable to the
manufacturing parts of the country, and because everything
he had heard had convinced him that their introduction in such
places would be imoracticable.
Mr. GRIM SDIt CH read returns from certain northern
districts, to show that the number of persons who received
parochial relief in these districts, were so great, as to prevent
the possibility of their being contained in any workhouse, how-
ever large.
Mr. DARBY thought that some alteration of the new
Poor-laws must be made in favour of those who had married
under the old system. If no other Honourable Member took
the subject up, he would feel it his duty to move for leave to
bring in a Bill, either for altering the allowance system in
this respect, or taking a portion of the children of those who
had married, uder the faith of the old law, into the work-
house.—(earn H )
Lord J. RUSSELL said the workhouse test had hitherto
been found to answer wherever it had been tried, and he was
afraid that it would only lead to fresh difficulties if they were
now to relax that test.
After a few words from MT. DARBY, Mr. BROCKLEITURST,
and Mr. BRISCOE, the motion, as amended, was put and
agreed to.
The Order of the Day for going into Committee of Supply
was then postponed to Wednesday next.
SHERIFFS COURTS (SCOTLAND).
The LORD ADVOCATE obtained leave to introduce a
Bill to regulate the constitution, jurisdiction, and form of pro-
telensins
ai nn
also Sheriff'n btsn nCeodu rltesa
ve tSnc oi
rt. ltarnaidn. eTa h
Be i
Ito Rightr n laikonn . G en
certain_
alterations in the duties of the Lords Ordinary, and in the
establishment of clerks and officers of the Court of Session
and Court of Commission for Teinds in Scotland, and to ro-
duce the fees payable in those Courts.
POOR LAW AMENDMENT ACT.
Mr. G RIM SD ITC H moved for a return of the population
of each of the several unions formed under the Poor Law
Amendment Act, which comprise the manufacturing towns of
Nottingham, Manchester, the Potteries, Stockport, Maccles-
field, Oldham, Ashton, Bolton, Bury, Blackburn, and Preston,
the respective dates when each of these unions was established,
the number of workhouses used in each union, the number of
paupers relieved in each union during each quarter up to tin
29th of September, 1837, distinguishing the number of pau-
pers who have received out-door relief and those who have
been relieved in the workhouse in each of such unions. Also,
a statement of the expense of in-door and out-door relief res-
pectively during the aforesaid period.
The motion was agreed to without opposition.
COURT OF SESSION (SCOTLAND).
Mr. WALLACE wished to call the attention of the House
to the petition of Mr. Henry Jones, complaining of the dila-