The Sun.
London, England, 1837-03-01 00:00:00

MARINE- POLICIES.

Mr. ROBINSON gave notice that he should, on Thurs-
day next, present a petition from the merchants of the City-
of London, praying for a reduction of the duty on Marine
Policies. The lion. Member also gave notice that he should
on that day move a resolution relating to that duty.
RAILWAYS.

Mr. PEASE rose to move for a Select Committee to in-
quire and consider how far it might be expedient to take mea-
sures for securing that all public lines of railway be laid, and
hereafter maintained, at one and the same standard ; and to
report thereon to the House.
Sir H. VERNE Y moved as an amendment, that an address
be presented to his Majesty, that be would be graciously pleased
to appoint a Royal Commission to consider and report on all
proposals for railroads or canals which might be submitted to
that House. He complained that that House was often called on
to adopt a line of railway without having had sufficient opportunity
a ascertaining which line would be most advantageous to the
public generally. When the enormous expenses of these rail-
ways were censidered; the house ought to adopt some efficient
moans of protecting the public by soliciting the best line. He
would not refuse his assent to the motion of his lion. Friend
(Mr. Pease) but in his opinion die object they had both in
view would be best attained by adopting his amendment. He
Lad no wish that that Hou3e should delegate its power,
I,ut, at the same time, he thought that it was the boun-
den duty of the House to attain every information in
their power that could possibly be advantageous to the public.
Mr. WA RBURTON did not think that the Committee
moved for by the Hon. Member for Durham (Mr. Pease)
could attain the object he had in view, lie would oppose both
the original motion and the Amendment.
Mr. GIL LON would support the amendment.
Sir J. STRIC KLA ND was opposed to the appointment of
any Royal Commission which should ride over the specula-
tions of private individuals in the management of their own
concerns.

Mr. P. THOMSON was very sorry to say that he could
not agree with either proposition.—( Hear, hear.) With re-
gard to the amendment which had been supported by
the Honourable Member for Falkirk, he must say
that he thought that that Hon. Member could not have
read the Report of the Railroad Committee of last year, or at
least have attached very little importance to that Report. It
was well known that the subject of a general survey by a Royal
Commission was very closely investigated by that Committee.
He owned that he himself went into that Committee with a
very strong desire to see if it were not possible to introduce
something of the kind ; but the examination of several engineers,
who were acquainted with the subject, and the discussions
which had taken place, convinced him that it was utterly im-
possible, with benefit, to introduce such a plan, and he con-
sented with very great pleasure to the report of that Committee,
a part of which, instead of a speech, he would take
the liberty of reading to the House. The Right Hon. Gen-
tleman then read an extract from the Report of the Committee,
in which they stated that they had been led to inquire into the
subject of a survey by a Royal Commission, for the purpose
of binding the judgment of Committees on the merits of coin-
peting lines of Railway, and a close examination convinced
them that it would be attended with no practical good, and they
were decidedly of opinion that railways, like other undertakings,
should be left to the judgment of those who were willing to
advance their capital. In every word of that Report
he concurred, and he believed that every member of that
Committee concurred in that recommendation, and he sincerely
hoped that the House, upon this occasion, would set the seal
of their approbation upon that Report by rejecting both the
motion and the amendment.

Mr. HUME wishett.to know whether any advances had re-
cently been made by the exchequer bill commissioners. If
'there had, it was, in his opinion, only adding to the mischief
that bad been already done, by encouraging speculations that
were ruinous to parties,

The CHANCELLOR of the EX.OHEQU4lireplied that
except in cases where they had been already engaged by con-
tract, he doubted that any other engagements had been entered
into, hi thp early part of this session he had intimated that
parties concerned in railways eugi►t not to re►y on► any such
advances. lie wished to leave such speculations to the pri.
vate capital of the parties interested in them.
Captain 1304144ci remarked that the 1-louse ought to

be extremely careful is their sanction to any such pro-
positions.
Mr. M. PHILIPS opposed the motion and amendment.
Mr. E WART thought that the Committee by whom such
matters were determined ought to be appointed by the Speaker.
After a few words from Mr. PEASE, the motion and amend
ment were severally put and negatived.
THE ROYAL MIND.

Mr. I. Al3o UCHERE stated that his• principal object was
to endeavour• to have an inquiry instituted into the establish-
ment ►with which he was connected, through the medium of a
Select Committee. In preparing a Bill upon this subject it
would be found that he was not prejudging- any of the ques-
tions which the Committee would have to determine, but ra-
ther that he had smoothed the way for them. One branch of
the subject was the manner in which the expenses of the
Mint were defrayed. What he proposed to do upon this point
he had put together in a Bill which he meant to ask leave

to introduce that night. The average expenditure of the
Mint, including costs for prosecutions, was 52,000/. a year.
His wish, then, was to submit to Parliament the estimates
altogether which were in any way connected with the
Mint, instead only of a small part of its expenditure. He
considered the latter a very inconvenient mode. He pro-
posed in his Bill to put a stop to this practice. He
wished to put together all the sources from which the Mint
was supplied, and to substitute one single estimate. This
was certainly the most constitutional mode of proceeding. It
was of the greatest advantage to the public service ; and this
he wished to have done—namely, that the amount of the vote
for the Mint—that the whole of the items for the one service
should annually be submitted to that House.—( Hear.) He
had stated that 52,000/. were defrayed for the expenses of the
Mint. There were four sources from which that money was
supplied to the Mint. The first of them was the manner in
which the Master of the Mint was paid; and he could con-
ceive that nothing could be more objectionable. The Treasury
allowed the Master of the Mint for every pound weight of
gold employed the sum of 6s. 81c1., out_ of which he paid the
expense of the coinage, and the Master's fees of Is. 10d. a
pound, the surplus being carried'to the account of the general
expenses. This was the system still acted upon, and the ls. 10d.
upon every pound was said to constitute the Master's emolu-
ments. It amounted to a very large sum ; in some years of a
large coinage it amounted to as much as 12,0001. Some
years ago a Bill was passed for regulating the salary of
the Master, but whilst it left all the old machinery, it
merely enacted that the fees should continue to be paid
to the Master of the Mint by the Treasury ; that he
should take out of them his regulated salary of 2,0001. ,
with the one hand, whilst he should pay back with
the other hand to the Treasury the surplus, amounting to
8,000/. Such a system as this produced a great confusion of
accountsit was useless ; and he thought that a word could
not be said in its favour.—( Hear.) But, besides producing a
great confusion of accounts, it had the effect of causing great
mistakes as to what was supposed to be the expenses of the
coinage ; it led to considerable public mistake in this respect.
He understood that since 1816 the repayment to the Treasury
had not been less than 8,0001. He proposed entirely to abolish
this system..--( Hear.) He proposed that the salaries of the
Master and other officers of the Mint should be submitted to
the scrutiny of a Committee of that House, and that they
should entirely do away with the present cumbrous and useless
machinery.—( Hear.) The next source from which the ex-
penses of the Mint were defrayed was derived from the Conso-
lidated Fund, to the amount of 13,800/. yearly. This grant
rested upon an Act of Parliament of the 18th of Charles the
Second, and was applicable to the general purposes of the
Mint. Wishing, as he stated before, that the whole of the ex-
penses should be expressly defrayed in one simple manner, he
proposed to do away with the grant altogether, and that it
should no longer be paid out of the Consolidated Fund. He
now came to the third source from which the Mint expenses were
defrayed, and it appeared to him to be infinitely more objection-
able than any of the other sources. What he alluded to was the
manner in which the profits of the silver and copper coinage
were applied to the general purposes of the Mint. The pro-
fits of the coinage had amounted since the year 1816 to not
less than 1,500,000/. of ntoney. The application of these
sums, according to the presetit system, never came under the
scrutiny of that House.—( Iltsar.) It was completely veiled
from the observation of the public. All that was known was,
that it was supposed to he appropriated for the general pur-
poses of the Mint. He must say that the system was not only
objectionable in this respect, but also inasmuch as a discretion
was left to the Master of the Mint, without the control of the
Treasury, to apply this money in any manner that should ap-
pear to him to be in any way connected with the Mint. This
appeared to him to be exceedingly objectionable.—( Hear,
hear.) It was proposed to repeal this Act, and that in future
the Mager of the Mint should pay the whole of the profits de-
rived from the coinage into the Consolidated Fund. The
fourth source from which the expenses were derived was from

the vote Of a Committee of the House. It varied very much,
as it of course depended upon circumstances. Last year it
amounted to 16,0001., and the year before it only amounted to
3,0001: As he' before stated, he proposed to substitute this
one mode for all the modes that had hitherto been adopted,
and he would therefore have to propose a vote for the pur-
pose in the present year, amounting to the entire of
the expenses, namely, 52,0001 —( Hear, hear.) . There was
only one more point connected with this part of the subject to
which he felt it necessary to call the attention of the House.
Any gentleman who at all considered the nature of the Mint
transactions would perceive that it was obviously necessary
that the Master of the Mint should be, to a certain degree, a
trader in bullion—( Icm-, hear)—that he must have in his
hands a certain fund with which he might go into the market
and purchase silver.—( Hear, hear.) The manner in which
this operation had been hitherto performed was by the Master
of the Mint detaining, in rather an arbitrary manner, any sum
of money that remained out of the profits on the silver and
copper coinage, and using it in the purchase of bullion. He
knew, as Master of the Mint, that there was at that moment
in his hands the sum of 80,0001„ which was actually being
applied in this manner. As it was proposed by the Bill which
he wished to introduce to oblige the Master, instead of detaining
this Money, to pay it into the consolidated fund, in order to supply
the Master with the necessary means of carrying on the services
of the Mint, he intended to propose a clause to this effect :
" It shall and may be lawful for the Lords of the Treasury to
make advances of money to the Mint from time to time for
this purpose ; it being compulsory on them, at the begin-
ning of every session, to lay upon the table of the House an
account of the whole of the money thus advanced, and the
purposes to which applied." This, in his opinion, was the
most expedient, the most constitutional, and the most re-
gular mode of carrying on the necessary operation of the
public services of the Mini—( Cries of Hear, hear.) , With
regard to the details of the Bill, he proposed to introduce, he
would not at that stage trouble the House with any further
observations. He thouslit that the course of policy and pro-
priety was to propose the Bill at once, rather than delay it
by referring it to a Select Committee. He was also unwill-
ing that another year should pass over without having in some
degree settled this measure.—( Hesr, hear.) So much for
the Bill. It might save the time of the House the more sa-
tisfactorily, if, having stated what the Bill was, he proceeded
to state the grounds on which he ventured to recommend the
House to grant a Select Committee to consider this subject.
_(llear, hear.) • He felt bound to say, that having had the
honour of filling the situation of Master of the Mint for
nearly two years, he did not think that he would be doing
his public duty, if he did not ask the House to institute an
inquiry into the manner in which the business of the Mint was
transacted. He trusted that in saying this he should not be
understood as expressing any opinion reflecting on the general
nature of the system that had been hitherto pursued. On the
contrary, be felt satisfied that many parts of that system were
extremely good, and he knew that foreign countries had lately
adopted many suggestions from the system they found in ope-
ration in this country. Still less did he hope that the House
would understand him as saying any thing in disparagement
of the professional character of tha Mint ; on the contrary, he
di I not believe that any political department possessed servants
of higher personal anl political honour than was possessed by
the officers of the Mint.—( Hear, bear.) But, looking into
the whole system, be felt bound to say that it required full and
grave inquiry.—( Hear, hear.) The words of his motion were,
That a Select Committee be appointed to inquire into the
department of the Royal Mint, and the system on which the
fabrication- and delivery of the coinage was conducted." He
did not call for any thing like a Currency Committee.—
( Hear.) He had expressly stated the objects that would be
opened by the proposed inquiry, and he hoped that the Corn-
inittee would act upon these intentions; but while he said

his he, on the ;Alter hand, did not wish to exclude
'rom the inquiry- any subject whatever that related
,o the Royal Mint which did not effect, the stan-

(lard of value. He wished expressly to state thaiTe
did not intend to propose that the Committee should enter-
tain any such inquiry, and he trusted that the shape of his
motion would expressly exclude such subjects from the con-
sideration of the Committee. He would not trouble the

House at greater length. 11,1 would only add, that the con-
stitution of the Mint had remained unaltered in its essential

points since the time of Charles the Second. It was true,
that in tBl6 it had been regulated in some respects, and
many • most excellent improvements had been introduced by
Lord Maryborough, but none of the main principles of the
original constitution of the Mint were in any way affected.
The present' system consisted partly "of establishment and
partly of profit, and the impression was that the establish-
ment was rather too large, and the officers, with regard to
salary, were overpaid. , He must say that the sources
from which the emoluments were derived were of a
nature that was liable to great objection. It was a
mixture of a public and private character which required
consideration. The great point on which the system hinged,
and which mainly called for the attention of the com-
mittee, was the system, an extremely ancient one, of
contracts, by which the Master of the Mint contracterri with
the Company of Moneyers for the making and fabricating
the coin. The present was rather an expensive operation,
and it would by for the Committee to consider whether means
might not be adopted, without in any way impairing the effi-
ciency of' the Establishment, of introducing a little economy.
—( Hear.) In speaking of economy he begged to be under-
stood as disclaiming that false species of economy which would
in any degree cripple the efficiency of such an Establishment
as the Mint, or which would in any way diminish the security
which the public had for the safe custody of the money, for
the purity of' the standard, and for the business-like manner.
in which the Estal;listuneric Iy4s PoP4iigt4—( Hear.) He
141 permitted tq Say 614 in the two countries in which
insfitutions of this kind were supposed to be regulated, namely
France and the United States of America, wt opposite gYS,
tern prevailed and tyltily ill France 1119 Wi117,4 141,9rness Of (lie
Mint 4stiNiqhme;lt vp s octriducted by contract, in the United
, States, on the contrary, the whole business was done by Es-
tablishment, and no part of it by contract. This difference
was greatly calculated to perplex the inquiry on the solies.,
f.!q bad endeavour t? t!r/ 400rimic. tb§t c91,0100W

' light on this subject generally, and he would take care that
they should be laid before the Committee.
Mr. HUMS rose to second the motion, and expressed the
greatest satisfaction at the man icr in which the subject had
been brought forward.—(Hear, hear.) This was a subject to
which he had long paid attention, and it had been his inten-
tion in the last Session to move for a Committee on the sub-
ject. He was glad now that he had not done so, as he con-
sidered that all inquiries of this kind were much better in the
hands of Government ; and when he found any department
willing to undertake inquiry he was always anxious to push
them on. He was sure that the public interests would be
better attended to by adopting Ells course. There was one
great principle which be hoped would be better attended to
in the course of this inquiry, nlmely, that every public ser-
vant should have a fixed salary, and should not profit, directly
or indirectly, by fees or by the mode in which the business
was conducted.—( Hear.) He h sped to see the day when this
principle should be acted upon by every department of the
State.—( Hear. )
Mr. CLAY was sure that there could be but one feeling,
viz., that of general satisfaction at the measure proposed by
the Hon. Gentleman.—( Hear.) He merely rose to ask whe-
ther it was intended at once to suspend the remuneration of
the money ers ?
Mr. LABOUCHERE said that the sole effect of the Bill
would be to obtain the necessary sum to defray the expenses
from Parliament, instead of other sources. It would not
alter the payments made by the Master of the Mint to the
several officers. It was his intention that everything con-
nected with the establishment should be laid before the Corn-
mittee.—( Hear, hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
it was necessary that his Majesty's recommendation and sanc-
tion should be given for the introduction of this Bill, and in
giving them be would take that opportunity of saying that his
Majesty's Government had been anxious to introduce this sub-
ject to the attention of Parliament during the last Session.
It had been withheld on the best possible grounds, and in the
meantime his Right Hon. Friend had paid the greatest at-
tention to the subject, and the Committee would be the bet-
ter prepared to discuss the Bill at present. The subject was
one of extreme importance. and involved many material prin
ciples of Government. He hoped it would meet with all the
attention it deserved. It was strictly intended to confine the
Committee within the limits assigned to it in the speech of
his Right Hon. Friend. 'lt was intended that the Committee
should consider the subject simply as a matter of administra-
tion, having no more concernment with the standard of value
than if it had been an inquiry into the Admiralty, the army,
or any other branch of the public department.
Leave was then given to bring in the Bill, which was read
a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on Monday
next.

Mr. LAB OUC HE RE then moved the appointment of the
Select Committee, which was agreed to, and the Committee
nominated.

MORTGAGES ON SHIPS AND VESSELS.

Mr. G. F. YOUNG moved for leave to bring in a Bill to
alter and amend the law relating to mortgages on ships and
vessels. The present system gave rise to frauds of the most
extensive deseriptTon in the outfitting of ships. Many"men of
reckless character were enabled to effect mortgages on ships,
in which they did not possess the slightest real interest. This
had caused great-difficulty in the way of obtaining advances of
money on the security of ships which were the bona fide pro-.
perty of the owners, and to whom, under circumstances of
temporary embarrassment, such advances would be a great re-
lief. It was intended by the measure which be sought to in-
troduce, to facilitate the means of obtaining an advance of
money upon mortgage of ships by the real owner, and to pre-
vent others from hypothecating that which was not their own
property.

Mr. P. THOMSON did not rise to ofFer any opposition to
the introduction of this measure. Some measure was neces-
sary on this subject.

Leave was then given to bring in the Bill, which was ac-
cordingly read a first time.
Mr. HALL tnrwed'for. a return of all sums of money paid
into the Exchequer/out of the annuity granted to his Royal
Highness Prince Leopold; now King of the Belgians, in con-
tinuation of the return presented to Parliament in 1834.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
in point of fact this return was contained in the annual finance
account. He had no objection to the return.
The return was accordingly ordered.

HIOIIWAYS.
Mr: BARNEBY moved for leave to bring in a Bill to re-
move from counties the expense and liability of repairing the
highways over bridges, and the three hundred feet next
adjoining to any ends of the same.
After a few observations from Mr. HL ME and Mr. POT-
TER, leave was given to bring in the Bill.
PENITENTIARY AT MII LBANK.

Mr. FOX MAULE moved for leave to bring in a Bill to
amend the Acts forthe'regulation of the Penitentiary at Mill-
bank.

Mr. HAWES took this opportunity of alluding to the sub-
ject of the expense of keeping prisoners, which varied mate-
rially in different prisons. He hoped a Committee would one
day be appointed with a view of obtaining uniformity in this
particular. He hoped also that something would be done on
the subject of juvenile offenders, and for the improvement of
the state of Newgate. He wished to know whether any
thing, and what, had been done in these two particulars in ac-
cordance with the recommendations of the prison magistrates.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, in the ab-
sence of his Noble Friend the Home Secretary, said with re,
sheet to juvenile offenders, that was a subject which had not
escaped the attention of Government—it was now-under the
consideration of his. Noble Friend, who had before him a
scheme, which he-hoped one day to be able to bring forward,
for the attainment of the desirable objects in this particular.
With respect to the gaol of Newgate, he was ready to admit,
with all who knew anything of the subject, that it was in a
state which called loudly for a remedy ; this, however, was one
of the objects of the present Bill, by which it was confidently
expected to be able to carry into effect all the recommendations
of the prison inspectors on this 'subject... He would take this
opportunity of directing the Hon. Member for Lambeth's at-
tention to a very important notice which stood on the hooks on
the part of his Noble Friend, embracing the whole subjects of
the criminal law, which showed at least that Government was
not disposed to be idle on these subjects. —( Hear.)
Alderman WOOD said the Court of Aldermen were
ready to do all in their power to second the recommendations
of the Secretary of State, with a view to the amelioration of
the state of Newgate. But when it was required of the Court
of Aldermen that they should lay out some 100,0001. in build-
ing anew gaol, with which the city of London had little or
nothing to do, not one in ten prisoners which it contained
,being sent there from the city, this was what they could not
consent to. He had visited the prison that morning, when he
found a vast accession of juvenile offenders, the major part of
whom, he believed, had been sent there by their parents, or
friends, for trifling thefts upon their fathers or their grandmo-
thers, and who thought it a very convenient way of getting
rid of them. This was an evil increasing daily, which con-
firmed him- in the conviction that some system of summary ju-
risdiction was absolutely necessary to carry on the criminal
proceedings of the country. About three or four of the chil-
dren he referred to he found had been' in prison before, and
could not read nor write.—( Hear, hear.) Anolher point to
which he would refer as tending. unnecessarily to crowd the
gaol of Newgate, was the dilatory proceeding of reporting all
the capital convictions to the King in council. He could see
no reason why the system of recording death, as in the Se -
s'ons throughout the" country, might not be applied to the
trials at the Central Criminal Court. Ile was sorry to learn
that it was the intention-of Government to abandon the notion
of rendering Dart Moor prison available..
After a few observations from Mr. Clay, Mr. F. -Mardi", Mr.
Potter, and Mr. Pease, leare"was given to bring in the Bill.
RECORDERS UNDER 6 WILL. IV., c. 76.
Mr. NVA K-LEY, in the absence of Mr. Leader, moved for
a return of the names of barristers appointed by the Crown
to the office of Recorder since the passing of the Act 6 Wil-
liam IV., cap. 76, stating the year in which every such bar-
rister was called to the bar; the city, borough, or town in
which the appointment has been made ; the annual payment
agreed to be made to each Recorder; the resignations of per-
sons so appointed and the names of the persons recommended
to the Crown by triwn councils to be appointed to the ,office of
Recorder.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER had no ob-
jection to all the early part of the return, but ho ojected to the
last part of it. He thought they had no right to publish the
names of parties who had been recomrAended as Recorders,
but whose names had been set aside.

Mr. WAK LE Y agreed to omit the last portion of the re-
turn ; and the motion, so amended, was agreed to., -
The ct!7erzOrders of the Day were then disposed oft and the
!louse al;7,urned a few minutes after Eight.

HOUSE OF LORDS, Fiocituvtr 23.
ENGLISH CORPORATION ACT.
The Attorney-General and several Members of .the House
of Commons brought up the English Corporation Amend-
ment Act.