The Sun.
London, England, 1837-05-06 00:00:00

eicotland.—( Hear, her: r.) It was that feeling that bad induced
him to dissent from t' rat. proposal. Now he would ask the
house, had not the o' ejection to this Commission been borne
cut by the result ? He world ask the Noble Lord, had any of
terse objections been obviated by the course which he had
pledged the Governmant ? The ifoble Lord on the occasion
referred to expressed his red Lard for the Church of Scotland,
u he (Major C. Bruce) a lways had accustomed himself to
lace more contiderce in a .ction, however small or limited,
ellen innrrofessions. however large or high-sounding.—( Loud
cheers.) The Church of S cotland asked for bread, and the
liohle Lord gave it a stone.. —( Henr, hear.). They asked for
a grant, and the Noble Lori I gave them what ?—a Commis-
sion. The Church of Se otland, however, did not sue in
2brma pauperis. She asket I a grant to enable her. to extend
necessary religipus instruct ion. Well, a Commission was
granted, and, after two year s' labour, what had the Commis-
sioners accomplished ?—(F Lear, hear.) They had produced
a Report, which in some re.spects was perfectly unintelligible.
—( Hear, hear.) When •the Noble Lord was asked the mean.
iing of the Report, he TIM that he did not understand its
language. He suppose-d. it was in an unknown tongue. He
did not know what satin friction to the people of Scotland could
arise out of- the proceeetings of this Commission. Ho .sup-
posed that the results of this Commission would be felt in
Scotland about the swam time that the good results of the
appropriation principle would be understood in Ireland.—
( Hear.) The peoples of Scotland had. no expectations from
the present Government: He entreated the Noble Lord to
pause in his course; and not to be insensible to what was pas-
sing around him. A great reaction bad already taken place
fn Scotland, of which the Noble Lord must he aware: •The
Right Honourable Baronet the Member for. Tamworth had
received at the hands of the youth of Scotland the highest
compliment which it; was in their power to bestow.—Great
cheering.) A distinguished and eminent Noble Lord had
also received a high. compliment and a gratifying honour from
the University of ilsberdeen.—( Cheers.) They had another
instance of re-action in the rejection of the Ministerial•candi.
elate for Ross-shife.—( Hear, and cheers.) The Noble Lord
ought not to close his eyes to the re-action that was going on.
The Noble Lord might increase Committees, he might add
job to job, but he never could persuade the moral, religious,
and conscientious p eople of Scotland to violate their con
sciences.—( Loud chem.) The Hon. Member concluded by
neolog:sing to the House, and expressing his determination to
support the resolution. •
Mr. C. FERGUIS ON thought the Established Church
of Scotland was entitled to ask for aid, if a clear case of des-
titution' could be made out ; but no such case had as yet
been made out for it. He therefore could not consent to
grant any money until the report of the Commissioners should
he received. At , present that report was partial, because it
• had not touched on the funds applicable to the Church
of Scotland ; and, therefore, that important question was
left totally untoue;aed. It never could be expected that a
grant of money, to be paid by the Dissenters of Scotland,
should be paid, until the case of destitution had been clearly
shown. The necessity had, no doubt, been shown in the case
of Edinburgh ; but it bad not as yet been shown in the whole
case of Scotland. If the Report of the Commissioners were
waited for there would, after all, be no great delay; for they
were at work day and night to produce it. Under these cir-
eueastancea—seeirg no advantage which could result from the
adoption of the Riesolutiens, but, on the contrary, much pro-
bable evil--,he should decidedly oppose them'.
Mr. HUME should not have risen but for the kind of com-
plimentary manner in which he had been alluded to by the
Hon. Member for Inverness. He (Mr. Hume) had heard
with great satisfaction the speech of the Hon. Member for
Cockermouth. When he said that there were drones and
kypocrites in the Scottish Church he coincided with him.
Ile did not know to which of these classes the Hon. Member
f)r Inverness belonged; but he (Mr. Hume) thought nim en-
titled to the latter character.—(Loud cries of " Order," and
Withdraw.")
Mr. C. BRUCE merely rose to observe that nothing the
Hen. Gentleman could say had the slighest effect on him.
The SPEAKER said it was a question mere. or the satis-
faction of the House than fur that of any Hon. Member.
Mr. HUME was not conscious of having used any eipres-
slur) inconsistent with the rules of the House.—( Great laugh-
ter.) The Hon. Member for Cockermouth had slid that the
number of drones and hypocrites had inereasCd in the SCottish
Church from the manner ,in which the Clergy had hitherto
se:cd, in ekich be (Mr. Hume) expressed his agreement,
and -stated that he would not say whether the Hon. Member
for Inverness belonged to either of these classes.—(Cries
'• Ott !".and laughter) But when he (Mr. Hume) saw the
lioa. Member claiming for himself and his party the role re
;nerd for religion in th country, and preaching. up his Ma-
jesty's Ministers as its opponents, as men desirous of flinging
della its sacred institutions—(Hear)—he thoueht a degree of
sanctity tees arrogated by them which deserved the appella-
tion of the eliaracti r stated. Men should be judged by their
wurls as well as their acts, and when he ( Mr. Hume) looked
back to the long period-in which the party of the lion. Mem
b held pow,- r, he could not help thinking that they should
now be the last who cried out for assistance .for the Chuech.
Jr was the cry of party, and it bad been gut up to check- his
Majesn.'e Niinivers, and to stop the march of Reform. Bele-
cation had of late years been greatly neglected -in Scotland.
did 'not his itigia. Hon. Friend (Sir W. Rae) bring for-
ward a measure for the education of the whole country, rather
fain the eresero partial one ? Nothing less than the general
edue.ition oF the people of Scotland would ever rest(); thee
re the 'proud station the) formerly held in the eyes of Europe.
lie (Mr. Ilerre: differed with the Hon.. Member for Kirk-
liecauee he would not give any grant to the Church
ef Scotland at all. It was olready rich enough, without it,
ror all useful purposes. If Emits were to be given at all, lie:
'hooch that they would be given equally to all parties in Scot-
bind. If I:it-re 5.5,7 any deficiency-of funds, it was rot in the
kn• kof that eoutery. -lie entreated the House not to lend
rise;!' to the patty procceding.s originated on the opposite side.
grultrirN on which it was urged had signally feiiell-Lanal
hvii4lstrd the House week!, without hesitation. reject the re-
seletions p7opc.s.ed by the Rightllon. Baronet. He should give
them his treat strenuous opposition.
Mr. A. JOHNSTON did not think the Church of Scot-
land fairly treated en this occasion. When the Committee of
the Gereral Assembly made certain proposals to the Noble
Lord—that they would build a large number of churches if he
would endow them—he' (Mr. A. Johnston) thought it areued
no great zeal in the cause of religion for the Gnvernment
to d:cline them. —( Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord on n ler-
tp• r cceasion had said that it would be the duty of the Coot-
),:iAt,iunc,rs to report on the paramount cases of necessity first ;
the Noble Lord taws reav satisfied. Thew had reperied the
case of Edinburgh, and sliow ed that in thot city there avert.
2d 000.PC/setis destitute of the means of religiom instruction.
What more did he n ant ? But it was said the case waeiecore-
p'ute. Ail the Right Hun. Baronet's resolution asked was
that it shce'd be taken in•o consideration. Was that toe
much ?—( Hear. ) If the Noble Lord acceded to that re--
sonahie requcst, ail %void& be trade plain and clear in a ten
na) s. The Hon. Member for Cockermouth hail charged the
Clergy of the Church of Scotland with a political bias. Now
he ( Mr. A .Johnston) was not there to. defend them—they
did not need his defence.. He would let. their own charactets
Speak fer them, end point, merely to what they had done fur
the people of Scotland as the best refutation of that cherge._
( Hear.) At any rate, they were entitled to for mere consi
deration than the Hoe. Met:atter had shown them. The
Noble Lord had now the opportunity of -proving his own con-
sistetwy, andbe (Mr. A. Johnston) hoped that the house
wouhl adopt the resolutions. • • • •
Mta DUNLOP roar, amidst cries of " Question,' aed
" Divide." to *ay that Scotland owed a large.debt of gratitude
to his Majest.i's Ministers for their _ conduct on the question
at iesue. - The Dissenters of that country felt the greatest
rcluctarn.te to give any grant to the Church of Scotland and
the only result the resolution of the Right Hon. Baronet was
likely to have, would -be the production of bad feeling be-
tween the Dissenters and the member 9 of the Church of Scot-
land. If, however, the whole case of the Church were
fully stated, and the destitution complained of satisfactorily
proved, be did not believe- that the Dissenters would offer
guy opposition to wbateaer amount of grant might be deemed
necessary to. relieve s Hut, while the whole claim put
forward was for the capital of the country alone, he thought
l is Majesty'a Ministers would be very ill-advised indeed to
admit it. lie •(Mr.• Dunlop) could understand why Hun.
Members opposite nislied to cause a rupture between the •
Dissenters and the Church of Scotland ; it was to further
their own political purposes. The only question at issue, in
point of fact, was, whether the people of Scotland should be
called on to contribute to the necessities of the Church be-
fore all its wants were made apparent. He should oppose ,
the_resolutions.

Mr. CAMPBELL expressed his grief that the question
should be made a party one at all, or treated in any way as a
political question. No man felt more warmly for the interest,
of the Church of Scotland than he did ; but he could not,
notwithstanding, support, the resolutions of the Right Hon.
Baronet. It was true enough that there was a population of
55,000 destitute souls in Edinburgh, Without the means of reli-
gious instruetion; but the same destitution existed elsewhere
as well as in Edinburgh. In his (Mr. Campbell's) county
there were two parishes, measuring 60 miles long by 18 broad,
and yet they had only one church and one clergyman between
them. Under those circumstances, he was of opinion that the
whole state of the country, rather than that of an isolated portion
of it, should be taken into calculation before any relief were ad-
ministered. He hoped the Hon. Bart. would withdraw his motion,
and not press it to a division ; because, if he did, he would do
more injury to the Established Church in Scotland than all the
efforts of her enemies could accomplish. He (Mr. Campbell)
should not support the resolutions of the Right Hon. Baronet ;
but if the whole case of Scotland were made out, and all the
funds of the Kirk were proved to be exhausted, he should then
have no hesitation to vote anything necessary.
Mr. H. JOHNSTON said a few words in explanation,
which were quite inaudible in the Gallery.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the original motion
For the amendment
Majority
COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.
On our return to the Gallery we found the House in a Com-
mittee of Supply, and
Mr. I3ERN AL reading a resolution for a grant to his
Majesty, not exceeding .24,617,0001.—( Loud laughter)—for
thA payment cf outstanding Exchequer Bills, issued for the
public service.

After a few words from Mr. GOULBURN, which did not
reach the Gallery,
Mr. HUM E said he thought the Committee ought to ad.
jcurn the consideration of this motion until the 9th of June.—
( A laugh, and cries of " Hear, hear.") When the other
Pouse stopped the progress of reform, when they unnecessa-
Hy impeded legislation with that view, he submitted to that
House whether it was right in them to part with a single shil-
ling of the public money ? Besides, he knew that the Hon.
Member for Coventry was anxious to say something with refe-