The Sun.
London, England, 1808-02-16 00:00:00

than that they tnemseives were in LAIC I VI,
could not. be imputod to him on tile present ocea,-.1
sion, for, as, far as the Order of the :7th of
went, it had his approbation. Itti then read the
words down to," would give his Majesty an nti-
questionable right to blockade, &e. 't/hich the supe-
rior valour, &c. would enable him to carry into
etTeCt, by aelually investing, and So forth." At
least, there 'was here a recognition. of the 'Mpg-
tice of France to Neutrals, if not an approval of the
principle of retaliation, by establishing a siirnilar
system of nominal: blockade. But the Order, at all
events, extended further than the old mode of ap-
plying.the Law of Nations. It might be said, that,
according to the rule of 170; we had a right to -in,'
terrnpt the CeastingTrade of France; but this inter- j
rupted the Tattle of Spain, 8,-;c.' with France, and,
included those Nations where France had such a
controul its to enable her to enforce Ahe exclusion 'of
our Ships. Any nation had a right to exclude slur
Ships; but the Orderpreceeded on the sound prin-
ciple, that in fad the exclusion was not owing to
the nation itself but to France. To support this
construction of the Order, his Lordship cited the
speech of the President of the United States, ' who,
he observed, understood it in the same way; and,
tor, the justness of his construction of the French
Decree, he cited. the Spanish Debree. Ito
also cited the pretensions and complaints of the
Danes to the same effect. With tegard to the
opinion of M. Decres, in reply tc:i General Arm-
strung,Whe consulted him about theapplication of the
Decree to America, he considered that worth
nothing. 'The whole answer evidently amounted to
this, that Deeres knew very little about the matter.
This appeared fiom a sentence in the answer,'
which he observed in a very'eXcellent pamphlet on
this subjeEt, which, he knew not for What reason,
was not published in the official letter... TheroDez-
eres distieCtly stated, that he had ranch lesS posi-
tive information on the point than. the Prince'ef Be-
nevento,
_whom he advised General Armstrong to
con4ult. The Court of Admiralty also had certainly
adopted his construction of the French Decree.---
When a Neutral was captured by an Enemy, it was
not the. praCtiee to grant Salvage for ' releasing the
Vessel, because she was in no danger 'of coolisca-
tiop. But, ion' an American Vessel" being seized fol-
trading with this Country, and released by one of our
Ships, -eth of the whole was granted 'as salvage.,
As.,to the questiOn Of the right of retaliation, his
rAit4ship ieentended, that when our °Ow 'Oreserva-,
lion required that we should take measures 'against
out Enemy, the Neural bad no tight to complain;
for the injury to her was consequential. ' He'stated
a' variety of instances to prove the ccirreCtness of this
position, and cited cases 'of bleckddes, • embargiaes,
Sec'. aillltiitrationa of the &Chine. - As to the mode
of the retalißtiou, lie did not think itrneeessary to
stiy a word on that Subjeat. With resped to the
policy"of the Measure, 'he maintained that
view of it had been taketi, fiattienlArly' with regard'
to-Arherica.: We were not 'to consider' merely the
greatness Of the advantages which we derived 'froth
an intercourse 'with America, but also What,lwotild.
be our situation if Ain erica 'should submit to the
DecreeS of Btionaparte: To preserve peke, with
Ametica, he one Could be more anxious than he was:
He wished well to Aitierita,'first, because it Vas 'big
ditty as a Man to' Whili 'Well to every Nation; lihtl!
net, beeanse the welfare' of America Materially.
cotme&ed with the interests of Great Boirtio:twilat
he ecibld not suffer the Enemy'both of Great Britain
and Atherica to make use of the one to 'destroy the
other; and his duty to his own Country was clearly.
paramount to his regard for any other. He
these Orders would not' be.pfoduative of a 'war, with
America. " Do-not, my' Lords," he said.with ear-
nestness, " bring on such an'etient, by argnifig the
case upo4i any such sUppoSition.: Amerlea,ll omit,
will still listen to the voice of troth-i-She Will See
that the whole of, this is owing to France—and per,
haps shemay be at last sensible of the policy 'of
joining With us in opposition to theiyild and ext rave-
gent 'pretensioni of a Power whose tibjeCt is to crush
us both." • - • -

Lord KING supported the motion, taking nearly
he same course In the ohserimtion and atgument
as the NobleLords.who had preceded him on that
side of the inestion, and contended strenuously'tbat
the Orders of Council, which annihilated the Ilatri-
gallon of innocent NCUCVNIS upon tho 'high seas,
not he justitied ''on'the grotind of retaliation
fur the. French Deeree. of 'the tst of Novertibei,
!anti, which was rOereliiLli aft of: 'dottiestic rep-
lation, piffeetlyComPetent to the enemy to 'adopt
and carry into execution, rtiltlwut any violation' of
'the Law' of 117atinns,

Eprd OR 67.17.;L4: ep9orred with Noble
Friend (Lord Aticklant% that the question Wat'Ont
of tri)4 important tat 'Coal Octnpy the atten-
tion or Parliament. • it'‘i,as one more particularly
calling' for the intcrpositi'on of that-House, becatise,
unleSs‘Gotiernment could he brought to' tread hack
the'steri that had been taken, mistortone 'would fol-
low initfortune, calarnity, succeed calamity, and Ais.
aster he added to ditaster, until nut only pettetity
should rue the hour when such measures were
adopted, but even the authors of them have cause
to repent 'of the coursi WhiCh had Unfortunately
been taken. It was not, bok.vever, yet too laio to
correti the erior'that had been committed ; Parlia-
Ment might still interpose, aud save the country
horn 'the consequence of persevering' in that impo-
litic and ruinous course ; 4t behoved' that House,
therefore, to interpose in time, or a small interval
of delay might render their interposition unavailit4.
The Noble Lord on the Woolsack had asserted, that
in arguing
,this Subjeft, it was -not' his intention to
totind his juitiO,catibii of the measure under Conti-
'aeration, upon a COntlenination of the measures of
others. In Justice to thafNoble Lord, he adinitteil,
that in this instance he had not resorted to a pre.
tice, w hicli had too often been ad'opied of late. The
Noble Lord, however, had, instead of *lin fication of
his own measure, occupied' himself partieubirly in jus-
tifying an as of the preceding Administration, as if he
wished to fix the attention of their Lordships to that
aCI, in the, hope, that the measure under disenssion
would be considered' as resting upon the same
grounds.' Hut the two cases were widely different,
as he should be ahle.to prove to. the' 1-104se. At for
the tyrannical Deeree of Franee; he abboyred, con-,
clenmed, and detested it as Innen as any 'Noble Lord
could. If was upon r lip groond that that Decree
had declareathel3ritish lilartchiin a state of bitiekadr,
that the Order of Chuncil of the 7th day of Janu-
ary had been trained. he would not, deny ;

It V' LiAr WILC it

6111
,4IUI LI; i)

;.ipperl U
ti (CC',

,M.l:- the e;roestaoces, and stew the ilrpoliey
•-iiCl terse than TT. been ak-7,40, y t he 44e, 444
tlrefii ,2.
-11 to ,ift ? T li ko ree 4,1ia5 reneh G#ern-,.
tr
nierki 7. ,e us krif), seta ite le -* n the my,
botefUtight to retsfrat upno' tweet Nentrakex-
eept irt''t he caseof theiracquiescence in that Decree.
'Had any proof of such acquiescence been produced i.
Not a --s he doweefepreof—te-t hitt-effeek-trettredy and -r
thereceie,,,,in,rthif.absene4 o[ such evidence, eiery,
ground ofjustilication of the late Orders in Council
was taken away. . Here the Noble Lord' corn--
muted at some length upewilwelectuneots on
the., table, for . the. purpose -of iliewing. that. the,
Neutral Natiinis had not acquiesced in fluottaparCa
Decree to our injury. ffe .referred to the case of a
vessel which had been liberated by- the Prize Court
in France, and also of and released by 'a Prlie Court
io'Spain, after having been captdred upon a .suppo-
sition that ,the Decree of. Noveniber Uxtencled, to.
vessels at sea; in order to prove that ia. such cop..;
struction had been. pnt upon that Decree by the pro-
per tribunal • for 'carrying it -into effect in France.
The-moment that America was apprised of the in-
tention of the French Government, to construe and
exectite the Decree to that extent, she reserted to:an
embargo. This was an: Unequivocal . proof that
America did, not acquiesce inAerren6.ll Decree to
the extent assumed by the Noble Lords who de-
fended the spirit of the Orders,of Council, whilst, on
the other hand, there was net 'tbeSlighteSt shadow:of
proof of her having ever ' dnce, acquiesced in, the.
French Decree. There was n O ground of justification
therefor on that head. The,'Noble and Learned Lord.:
had endeavoured to shew ehe-Orders of Council did
not violate the I;:aw'of Nay.iorts, but he •had not said
anything in answer to the: statetnent of hi.; Noble
Fried (Lord Auckland)); that they violated 7 or 8
Statutes .: the N:ivig;.ition "ALA 'the Ati regulating the
trade of Jersey, &c. In all 'the ,reasuoing Upoo the .
levyingOf ship-Money, and. all the tyrannical pro-
ceediogs.which led to the:PA:volution, the plea of ex-
pediern7 was always tarpgbed in jeStitication of wen
impositions resorted to 'without the consent of.
Parliament. ,The same,
.plea was. set up in this
Instance, - though the parliaropt had been, pro-
rogued-after the-circumstances- which produced the,
expediency had ariseo.. If Orders of Council 'could
alter the law of the labd, there, was no occasion for
the. farce or mockery of assembling a Parliament.—
.After dwelling with _much. stress upon this: topic,
the 'Noble Lord citme tb consider the object pm-
posed to be effeElid by the ' Orders of Council.—
He had at length- discovered, but after having been
much .puizled b efore he could discover, what the
King,'S.;Nfiniaterfa intended to accomplish by these,
Orders. ' .He It hetn three comments upon thetni,
one by .an eminent Civilian {Dr. Rebirts6ny, '
one by a
,'4.Triter upon 'Political Economy
,(Mr.
Branginnin) 3 and a third,, which contained, Mute.
infOrrnatiort upon ' tl:e subject . of - commerce
tn'. I '' 12' a . • . -
t tan , any, v./ark to lwd e‘ et Ken, by :a Most
respeaamerchant .(Mr. Bariug); and yet.all the,e,
writers appeared to him
,to be w sorne errorrespea-
ing thef,e4rOrders.. 'This obsettiitt }vas reason for
going into the Committee.. IThere was a. wise re-
gtdat'idh prOailing in the przthlice of the dther House,
that no considerable aleeration of trade should be
Mule' without 'first suinoitting it , .to a Committee of
theWholeiHotisc. . rre was trot sufficiently acquaint-
cid s.Lth their tior,:tnliips' 'Orlier:-; :to Say kviwther any.
*kWh o.A',llti(r:f .37:13ted among: th,-:to ;; but as the
l Orders of Covitcil made a fundamental and radical al-
(eration in Ale trade of this country, k oh with respeet
M belligerents and neutrals, their .4ord:il4ips ought us
go into -a.ComMittee of the wholteHottsevto eonsider
wheat. tx., the traeaattre ought to 'be:•trioeted.' As `to
the policy of the measure,, be would unucrtahe to
shew that it Was impossible' to carry these Orders of
CrAllCif into effea. It was vain to expeCt io, deprive
Eihitre etthe'supply of cotton for its manufaOures.
We might prevent her, by our maritime isoperiority,
from being supplied from America or the WeStlo-
- but sheWOuld find places ,inaccessible .to •intar
'ships where cotton might be cultivated, and whence
she could be .supplied. The consequenCe of pre-
venting France from receiving cotton tram the usual
sources would be, that our market Would be over-
mocked, that the price of the article would fall, and
that the reduction in the price would lead to a
diminution of the 'supply. He was,- persuaded,
that if 'the execution .of the, measure was 'prafticable,
t its operation would be injurious to this. Country. ~ If
the ohjeet was to make the trade of France subser-
vient to the' interests of this Country, that objeet
maid not . be . secret., The Government, of
„France took the measures that common sense would
' ilk • r ' h` 4 the point Qut to ...0 , at.suca an cLije...,t- Mothent, these
Orders of Council were known to it,,, by declaring,
•that goods - and vesaels should . be confiscated ;on '
entering a -French port, if.they had,
,previously been
'in .an English :port. Beside;. there could not -he,
a rational hopes entertained that America would
submit to this oleaitire....' it;le thought a rupture with
America weArld be one of the most ruinous external
' calamities that' could befall this•country,- and was
ready to make any effOrt to. prevent it. If they bad
then to diseass- she-propriety .of. the tneasures•t hat
had !reit taken', • he witS'?ure -they would 'never
.sancuouthem with their approbation. .1314 i his:Ma-
jesty's servants had taken - the whole responsibility
upon themwelves, and done away the' deliberation Of
Parliameo:r. They 'had, new 'nothing .to do hnt,fe
tread back their steps, andnot to continue in error
' to a7oid the shame of retraetion. It was not Irons, any
• distrust of the resources of Country that he fear-
ed a rupture with America, but because the war-with
that Country on the groundof these Orders would-
'be unjust, .tind in the prosecntien of it they could not
• exped.thesamefeelingswould anitnate theirdefenders,
as IC they. wereccinvinced of the justice of thell'eause.
The boon that Was said to be given by these-Ordera
to Arnerica; was no more than what sheAtad a right
0
to,;aud what this Cottony had no right to takeirom
' her. As to the" duties
.propOied'te be levied Under
- these Orders of Council, he should only may, that
whetuthe peace of Me took, place, lie riever thought
that he should have lived, of that the..gritish. Parlia-
meet_ should have lived, te-see the day w hen-it pro-
position. would he made to impose a tax upon.'Ame-
mica. He had hoped that the duties proposed WOW
have been co,ifinA tut articles of Colonial produc-
tion, anit'llial no dot) itiToul,l'be imposed upon: AthJ-
ricito produce. . lie was sorry, to Lind, thererore,
by certain Resolutions on 'the table, that ;in 'Certain-
cts,-i articles of the domestio prodtice of Atnetica
were to I.)e liable to a duty. America could never
' submit to such conditions, and u was an. net elgth,s

IniaAice
to impose !Amy- duty UpOLi
40Wieti to be imported into this Country, when
forced into our Ports under the execution ortbese
Orders of Council.. Upon these. grounds, there-
fore.).(lat.should voiefor going into the Committee.
Lorti 114111KE$BURY vindicated the line of ar-
gument puraued by his Noble and Learned Friend.
It ever there liad been a time, a question ton
..:which it-was-thotight-,.:Proper to refer to past mea-
sures,, to the persons by svhcan such measures had
beetvadopted, and to the circansfancesunder which
they-bad-7i* place, it was the present moment,
and the tttiestioo thou under the consideration of
heir Cotalithipsr. The preaMble of the Orders of
Council spewed: that they were not founded upon
any recent act,lthat.;sthey only. were to carry into
effect the princiPie faidrdnwn in
,a fernier act, which
bad been insufficient to its professed object. How.-
ever he might ditrsa;,aa to the policy of the precise
ad which hat: in 7:le 'former case been resorted
to, .he approved of ,thef•principle. uPon which it
rested. When'. thkaFronch Decree was published
there appeared to him “1-0 cases, one of which
might have been taken, either to consider that De-
cree as idle words, and to treat it with contempt, or to
took upon it as Arsobstantial measure, calculated to
injure the interests of this Country, and justifying
measures of)retaliation. • The late Ministers did not
consider That Decree in the former light, or pass it
over in silence and contempt, though they noticed,
it. only b 3 - abortivi ;attempt at retaliation.--*
The arguments that been Urged by the Noble
Lords, opposite 'in this
,instance, would apPly
with More force against , their own tneasure.--
The Learned Lord (Lord Erskine) had said, that
the Order of the 7th January was only a trifling en—
largement of the principle of the war of i 756. Kittthe principle of that war founded upon this, that
neutrals should not be allowed, during, war, to
sea
,a ,trade which, they had not enjoyed during
peace. Neither France nor Spain allowed neutrals
lo carry on theirooasting trade during peace, and the
pripciple of tins4ar of laaatwas*, that they shbOd
not carry it on iti -time of war.. This a belligereut
had a riht, upon the broad principle, to resist and
refuse. I,lot though neutrals were net allowed to
ptreaadFee between
,tiy Brest
*er enc.)atndprollhoinbrditeedaux in Anne of
between Ferrol , and Brest, and Iroborwee trading'
ports of France and Spain, This trade therefore ala.
lowed during peace, they had a right to possess
dUriog war) and upon. the general principle no
belli-
gerent hada right consistently with the Law of Nits
tiuns-to take.freta them. This, bewever, the Order
of the 7th of January, did take fromthetris and
unless that Order could be defended, and the prin-
ciples of the Law af-Natiousi it was not to be jos.;
titled at all. Ily,,the copy of an V official dispatCh
found by his Majesty's, present I%linisters km' their
going-intoetlice,it was eVident that their preciecesa
sore efiterAttincd, opinions similar to their own; ort,
the justice of retaliatingaipoo the enemy the ineaA
sores. of hostility ,which he might choose to adopt
towards this Country. We had a right to retaliate, we
did retaliate.. 'The ektent. al the, Powess.with whichi
we were at war, had no Meet in depriving us of that
" right: If by that retaliation Neutrals were Incidentally'
injured, it was to be lamented, but could not tend 1.4
thediminution of that right. In the last.war, the Eli*
find the Weser wefe blockaded, although ohe side watt
occupied by neutrals, who must'enrmeci4ently have
sustained material injury. The, tenor of the 'French
Decree has been admitted by the Nale Lords op-•
•
posite themSelveS. AS to the attempt made to 14-:
sinnate, that its virulence had been abated by. the
explanation given by Decres, the Minister of Ma=
rine, to General Armstrong, nothing Could be name
futile., How could any renunciation, but one as plati-;
lie and as formal as 'the 'Decree itself be said to do
away. its effe6t ?.Was France to be left to blow hot and
'cold at pleasure? In Cases tried in.the Admiralty
Court in England, the eminent person who presided
in that .COurt, declared that Deerea' explauation
was nugatory; ,so.much for the justice of the Or-
ders in Council. With respect to their policy, the
Noble Lord entered into a long and `able exposition
of the advantages deriveable froM them. He com-
pared the measure with that of the late Administra*
tion, and contended that while by the Order of
.tan. 7, the ordinary law of nations had been. just
as much violated as by the Orders of the tWs
-November, the latter secured to the Country lavut-
fits which the former was not calculated to obtain.
:It was intoleratale that England had enjoyed little ad-
vantage from her maritime Superiority ; and that
France, who-did not dare shew a flag on the ocean,
had Carried en such a trade by neutral bottoms, that
the people of- that Country consumed colonial pro,`
dtit!e. at 'a Much has rate than the English. 'Jo pre-
vent this was the:great objea of. the. Orders 19
Council ; and in doing Allis, so far was the UAW i
Grc t from being injured, that the exports of
the months. of, December ancij.anuary last exceedei.
'the exports of the corresponding months of the pre-
ceding year.
Curd LAUDERDALE wished the Order's to be-
discussed on their own positive merits, and not on
.their corripartitive 'merits. He believed that. they
had been infinitely. mischievous. They iujuied ow'"..
Arals much more than, the enemy ; and were,lit
opioion,.tantamount to a declaration of War Willa
America:
Lord' SID MOUTH was desirous that the..Orciel:k
might, be referxed a committee, in.order to give
hitu.an opportunity of fully investigating, and mai; -
ing up his ,rnind'.upen this important subje6l, ntz
which he bad not yet been able to form a decided
opinion. The House then divided,
For the Motion 30--Proxies.l.lBr-7--48
4gainst the Motion. 6 1--Proxies 4e.---106

.1

lU,

11,

Wiority arokti4t Lord Auckland` i Motion--44,
iVI.M.IIIIed FoIIK o'Clock Oifi.morning.

SOUSE 0 P:,COM)110 NS.
.I%IONLIA,Y; FEL Ib.

. . . ,
Mr. SENKISVON presented a Copy ofitieWirrilt
under bis '44TajOy's Sign Manu4J, ,appointing.Conl*.
roissioneri for Abe Management' of the Airgirs.af tlici
Royal Naval Avian). '
Leiv(.. W,li tr).li!ii for the flotiharn gle6tim Com-
-1.11)11(.4.1 (0, .3,3 jonrn ,:t it, ri,irilto-ii.
)otrow, ciVer
Wed-
tic!'-!av, being the Fa 4 Ilty. Also to. the Saltadi
Committee.
. _ _

POOLE 17 Liz.CTioN,
The • N't r
AR, Ctiairtnen otthe'ronic
Elq4t:on Co;atnit4 cc, tepurted, W
ily
`old solar as 'tape' cAnd. Mr. Garlazid and Sir Richard