The Sun.
London, England, 1863-03-03 00:00:00


During the time that the Earl of Lifford was addressing
the house, his Royal Highness the Prince of Wales entered
the house and took his seat on the front row of the cross
benches.

NAVAL COAST VOLUNTEER ACT AMENDMENT

The Duke of SOMERSET, in moving the second reading
of this bill, said that they were in a better position with
regard to reserves for the navy than at any former period.
On the 1st of Feb., 1863, the number of Royal Naval Re-
serve men was 14,000; of Coast Volunteers, 8,000; of
Coastguard on shore, 3,000; and of Coastguard in ships,
2,000. The total number amen available as a reserve was
28,800, and as the number was increasing week by week
they might expect it to be 30,000 by the end of the year.
The only drawback to this great scheme of a reserve was
that the Coast Volunteers were not to be taken more than
300 miles from the shores of the country. Vessels might be
manned principally with ordinary seamen, or men of Um
Royal Naval Reserve, but might have a few Coast Volun-
teers, and if these vessels were in pursuit of a privateer or
required to leave the Channel for any purpose the service
must be given up, unless they chose to break faith with
the men. It was of the utmost importance that faith should
be kept with the men, and that the terms on which they
entered should not be violated. It was proposed to reserve
to the present Coast Volunteers the limit on which they
had taken service, but not to enter any morewith that limi-
tation. It might lead to some small diminution of the Coast
Volunteer force, but, seeing how the Royal Naval Volun-
teer force was increasing, the advantage of the absence of
the restriction as to distance would more than compensate
for the disadvantage of that diminution. The bill contained
oaly one clause. He had now explained the principle, and
lie asked their lordships to read it a second time.

The Earl of HARD WICKE suggested that without any
definite law the Admiralty might allow it to be understood
that men being settled with their wives and families on the
coast would not be taken out of the Channel except under
circumstances of great emergency. The bill itself was a
very good one, but probably many men would withdraw if
there was any idea of sending them on foreign service.
With regard to the general subject of the naval force of the
country he well remembered that when the Royal Commis-
sion sat it was calculated that in the event of a war
with France, which was the only naval Power of any seri-
ous importance, a force of 56,000 seamen and marines, and
a force of 30,000 men in reserve would be sufficient. We
had nearly 30,000 men in the reserve now. Of course, as
a naval officer, he liked all the advantages of a large navy,
but as a member of Parliament who had some regard for
the finances of the country, he certainly was astonished
that the Government should ask for so large a force as
76,000 seamen and marines. In 1854 and 1855, during the
Crimean war, they bad only from 65,000 to 67,000 men,
and with so large a Naval Reserve to fall back on at any
moment, he could not understand how the Government
should ask for 76,000 men. The noble duke probably
might be able to state some good reason for this extraordi-
nary demand, but he could not himself see any ground for
it. The American States were too much weakened by
their own quarrels to be dangerous to the peace of Europe,
and though there might be some threatening elements in
the Polish difficulty, that question had not arisen when
these estimates were framed.
The Duke of SOMERSET—I did not expect on this
Volunteer Bill to be called on to go into the whole question
of the naval expenditure of the year, but I must make a
few observations in answer to the speech of the noble lord.
I agree with him that we ought not to make use of the
Coast Volunteers for the general purpose of manning the
navy. They are only entered for one year, and of course
it would be impossible, therefore, so to make use of them.
The 30,000 men of the reserve are never to be used except
on a great emergency, when this country itself is in danger.
Of course the Government would be slow to issue the pro-
clamation, unless circumstances had occurred which were
of such vast importance as to make it absolutely necessary
that they should adopt a measure which would disturb
the whole mercantile marine of the country. In regard
to the manning of the fleet the noble earl seems to have
forgotten that portion of the report of the Commission
which recommends that a force of 20,000 marines shall be
kept up. It is always inexpedient to keep up a large force
of marines unless you can send a considerable proportion to
sea, and I have thought it right to reduce the number to
18,000. The Commission recommended that we should
always have a number of men in all our seaports to be ready
for any ships which were put into commission. Your lord-
ships may remember that in 1859, though there was a
bounty of £10 offered, ships were kept many weeks in port
waiting for men ; but now I am happy to say that whenever
a ship is put into commission in a day or two I hear that
she has got all her men. (Hear, hear.) We get the best
men, too, for we now reject all men who have not good cha-
racters or who may be physically unfit for the service. We
have got, therefore, not only a large force but a good force.
The noble earl must deduct from the 76,000 men the 18,000
marines and also those men who are employed in the pro-
tection of the revenue, amounting to several thousands,who
are now reckoned part of the navy. Though the state of
our foreign relations is satisfactory, yet there are disturb-
ances in different parts of the world which make it unad-
visable largely to reduce our naval force. I would Fcint to
the far East—to China and Japan, and I would say that,
looking to the disturbances in which we have been involved
in those distant parts of the world and the expenditure
which we have been forced to incur, it would be unadvis •
able suddenly and rapidly to reduce our naval force there. It
wouldbe bad policy, and it might lead to fresh disturbance
and a new outbreak, and might necessitate another naval
expedition to vindicate the honour of our flag. Again, a
large force is needed in consequence of the disturbances in
North America. Our trade is continually hampered and
harassed, and it looks to the Admiralty for protection in
that quarter. Every one of our island possessions in that
part of the world asks for the presence of a ship to see that
they are protected from vessels of one side or the other,
which might otherwise not be very particular in respecting
the Queen's proclamation of neutrality. Governors of
colonies are continually asking for vessels, and
Admiral Milne, the commander on the station, a man of
great prudence and judgment, and who, having been at the
Admiralty. knows the importance of economy, has fre-
quently written to me to say that it would not be for the
public service to reduce our force on that station. In the
Mediterranean we have been able to make a large reduction
in consequence of the state of our relations with the Powers
of Europe. I fully agree with the noble earl in the impor-
tance of economy in this branch of the public service, and I
carefully considered in what departments reductions might
judiciously and safely be carried out. I could not consist-
ently with my duty recommend to the Government a reduc-
tion in the number of men ; but in the department of stores
I found that we had a very large supply en hand and that
the consumption was comparatively small. In that depart-
ment, therefore, we have been able to make a reduction;
but
still, at the end of the year, I shall leave the navy in a
better condition as regards stores than it has been at any
time within the last 20 years. (Hear, hear.)
The bill was then-read a second time.

GARDENS IN TOWNS BILL.
This bill was read a third time, and
Their lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COmmoNs_
:L
at
four
The SPEAKER took the chair o'clock.
Evening.
SECOND READINGS
The following bills were read a second time
man:—Dengie
gRotasifi to
Railway—
Peterborough (Essex) Reclamation—Midland Railway
Bath)—Oswestry, Ellesmere, and Whitchurch
Peterborough Cattle Market—Potteries Junction Railwayay-
-Welch and Midland Counties Junction Railways--WestDrayton, Staines, and Woking Junction Railways--Tra-
more Embankment.
REGENT CIRCUS RAILWAY BILL.
The second reading (with respect to which Mr. Lewis
has a notice on the paper to postpone further progress with
this bill for six months), was postponed till to-morrow.

PETITIONS.
Mr. Cox and Col. TORRENS, complaining of the recent
encroachments in Epping Forest, and praying for in-
quiry ; Mr. W. PATTEN, from places in Lancashire
against the Union Rate Continuance Bill; Mr. C.
TURNER, from Liverpool, to the same effect ; Mr.
.1:10DSON, from Carlisle, in favour of a reduction in the fire

insurance duty; Sir J. SHELLEY, from 'Westminster, and
Mr. FENDER, to the same effect; Mr. C. YNNE, from
Carnarvon, for a reduction in the income tax, and praying
that incomes under £150 may be altogether exempted from
the operation of the impost; Mr. BRADY, from several
places in Ireland, in favour of the Salmon Fisheries' Bill.

RETURNS.
ARMY-WAR DEPARTMENT.

On the motion of Sir H. WILLOUGHBY, an address for
the following was agreed to :—Return of the number of all
officers, foremen, artificers, and labourers employed in the
various manufactories of the War Department in 1861-2 and
1862-3; and, similar return of the proposed number to be
employed in 1863-4.