The Sun.
London, England, 1839-08-22 00:00:00

EVEN ING

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, AUGUST 21.
The SPEAKER took the Chair at a few minutes past
Toro o' Clock.
On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EX-
CHEQUER, the-Exchequer Bills Funding Bill was read
a second time and ordered to be committed to-morrow.
On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EX-
CHEQUER the resolution of the Committee on the
Exchisqlter Bills (Ireland) Funding, were received, and
leave given to bring in a Bill.
Mr. HUME begged to ask what success bad attended
the plan of the Right Hon. Gentleman for funding the
remainder of the four millions of Exchequer Bills ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER could
not at present give a satisfactory answer, but he would do
so to-morrow.

BANK OF IRELAND.
The RIGHT Hort. GENTLEMAN then moved the second

reading of the Bank of Ireland Act Continuance Bill.
Mr. FINCH could not allow that opportunity to pass
without expressing his regret that the rate of interest to
be paid to the Bank of Ireland was not the same as that
contemplated in the Bill that bad been withdrawn.
Mr. ELLIS thought it rather unreasonable that the
Chancellor of the Exchequer should be called upon to re-
duce the rate of interest when that was contingent upon
other arrangements which had not been carried into effect.
He thought it much better to leave the Bill where it was.
Mr. HUME was sorry that the facilities of open Joint-
stock Banking was to be kept from Ireland for another

year.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
had adopted the proposition which was made to him at the
beginning of the contest, which was to reserve the whole
discussion of the matter till next Session. The Bank of
Ireland bad acted in the most handsome manner upon the
present occasion, and had, as far as possible, done all in
their power to forward the present arrangement. He was
as great a friend of free banking, with the single exception
of making money, as any one present, but
he objected to the free issuing of paper money.
It had been stated to the House, and undoubtedly that
statement wade a great impression on the House, that a
gentleman who had moved the nomination of the Hon. and
Learned Member for Dublin, had been excluded from an
office which ho had a right to hold, on account of his poli-
tical character. The facts were these, and the House
would see how contrary these facts were to the im-
pression that was created.—( Hear, hear.) There was
in Dublin a Mr. Robert Rowe, the Secretary of the
Chamber of Commerce a gentleman of the highest possi-
ble acquirements, oue of the best political ecconomists he
(the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had ever had the good
fortune to meet with, and who was the author of several

petitions to that House, particularly on the usury laws.
He was a gentleman standing so high in the city of Dub.
lin, that more than once the Representation of that city
was tendered for his acceptance ; but he declined receiving
it. He died, and his elder brother was appointed a Director of
the Bank of Ireland. It was impossible, by the rules of
the Bank, for two brothers to he members of the Corpora.
tion, and therefore there had been no exclusion of Mr.
Rowe the younger by reason of his politics.—( Hear,
hear.) These were the facts as he had stated them, and
he trusted that statement was perfectly satisfactory to the

House.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. D. O'CALLAGHAN believed that the Ho-
nourable and Learned Member for Dublin (who was
not present) was perfectly aware that he had been
led into error, and would have corrected the mistake
last night, had he not been told by an Honourable
Member that it was scarcely worth while inntioning it

again to the House.
The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to
be committed to-morrow.
DUKE OF MARLBOROUGH'S PENSION.
On the Order of the Day being read for bringing up
the Report on this Bill,
Mr. \VAKLEY said be hoped some one in the House
would divide with him against bringing up the Report.
He did think that on principle a more objectionable mea-
sure could not have been submitted to the House.—
_ _ _

(Hear, hear.) The Honourable Member for Kilkenny
bad already cffered a fruitless opposition to the Bill.
This Bill ought to have a different title. It should be en-
titled " A Bill for increasing the Pension of the Duke of
ISlariborough by 375/. a year." If such a title were adopted
it would be understood by the public ; but the public would
have great difficulty in comprehending why a Duke was
relieved on this occasion, when if a person of less conse-

quence came before the House for redress he would find
none. But being a Duke, of course he had an ample
number of supporters in the House, and got a gentleman
to argue his case with such great ability, that he induced
the Right Hon. Gentleman—he had nearly said the Noble
Lord--(Laughter)—to bring in this Bill. The Right
Hon. Gentleman had now a great sympathy with Dukes
because he was about to he associated with them.—( Con-
tinued laughter.) He (Mr. Wakley) bad no such sym-
pathy, and he looked at the case with reference to the
merits of the question and net to the situation of the par-
ticular individual who claimed redress. He wanted to
know if this Duke had performed anv public services which
entitled him to the consideration of the House. He might
have voted as Hon. Gentlemen had wished on sundry occa-
sions in the Upper House, but it would be paying dear for
his votes to give him and all who came after him 3751. a
year for what he had done in this respect. How did the
House deal with the poor under the Poor-law Amendment
Act? How did it treat the Chelsea pensioners, who had
no person to represent their interests in this House? But
a Duke, ha-ring co,,sidvrnUe family interest, came here and
found relief. The House could show its sympathy in that
case, but it could show none with reference to the poor of
the country. He therefore moved that the Report be
received this day three months.
Mr. BROTHERTON secondad the amendment.
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, but—
Mr. HUME rose and said, before strangers withdrew,
he wished to state his entire concurrence in the views
of his Honourable Friend. He had opposed the Bill
on a former occasion, and although he had had a
seconder, he had not had the good fortune to have any
supporters. Finding the opinion of the House to be
entirely against him, he thought it unnecessary to offer
any opposition on the present occasion, having already
recorded his opinion on the subject ; but if any other
Member wished to divide, he would not withhold his sup-
port from him. It had been argued that the Duke of
Marlborough was entitled to the 5,0001. a-yearj'arliament
bad originally allotted to bins; according to that argument,
this Bill would not place him in the situation he ought to
be in. Parliament had thought fit to tax his pension, first
4s. in the pound, and then again Is. tid. in the pound; the
latter deduction amounted to 3751. and he considered the
present Bill in the light of a grant for that amount, for he
held that at the present moment the Duke of Marlborough
Was no more entitled to this than if he had never had it ;
and such was the opinion of the Treasury in the year 1811,
who had made a deduction for the two preceding years,
from the pension, thus carrying the intention of the Par-
liament into effect. Ho entirely agreed with his Hcn.
Friend, that if any person in humble circumstances had
applied for this relief, he would not have obtained it so
easily as the Noble Duke had. He agreed with the Hon.
Bart. the Member for Oxford that the whole of the pension
ought to have been retained, if any was retained.
He objected to it on another ground, that it ought to have
been brought in earlier. He could not see why the present
Duke of Marlborough should receive more than his father
did.

Mr. AG L 10. NB Y as a member of the Committee
felt bound to state that the Hon. Member for Finsbury had
completely mistaken the course adopted by that Committee.
In that Committee the question whether the claimant was
a Peer or the meanest subject in the realm, was not
taken into consideration. The Hon. Member was entirely
in error as to the votes of that House which had never de-
nied the right cf the Duke to the Is. 6d. duty. When he
went into the Committee, from all that he had heard in
that House, he had a bias in his mind against the claims of
the Noble Duke, but, after the arguments that were ad-
duced before that Committee, and the further evidence that
had been brought forward, his opinion was entirely changed,
and he now believed that the Duke had a just and equit-
able claim to be relieved from the ls. 6d. duty, but his
opinion, with respect to the 4s. duty remained the same.
He hoped, therefore, the Bill would meet with the unani-
mous concurrence of the House, because tile recemmenda-
lion of the Committee had on every point been unanimous.
He must say that it was not fair of the Hon. Member for
Finsbury to put the question an the ground of the claims of
the Duke of Marlborough, because it had never been
brought forward or supported in the Committee on such
grounds.
Mr. BROTHERTON said whatever defence was at-
tempted to be made there was no doubt the Bill would be
an increase of the pension of the Duke of Marlborough,
who had for 30 years acquiesced in it. If any of the rela-
tions of sailors or soldiers applied for pensions after such a
period they were told it was too late—the books were
closed. Why should not the same principle be applicable
to all ?
Captain PE CHE LL had supported the Bill in all its
previous stages, and he was disposed to support it now.
Mr. P. HOWARD supported the Bill.
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the House
tlivided,Fwerhhenrinth.7nrec,
upapptehae red,Report
Against it
Majority
The Report was then brought up. —43
COUNTY COUNCILS BILL.—ADJOURNED
Mr. HUNIE moved
o the DEBATE.
of the ad Order of the Day for the re-
sumptionpay debate on this Bill.
The Order of thehaving
thatbeen read,
Mr. SANFORD regretted
si*ed in introducing the Bill. The
ehis Hon. Friend per-
blel
circulated
object he could
haie in view was, that it should rculated during the
prorogation ; but this was done after the. last Session, and
the public opinion was strongly
principle of the Bill was nearly the
it. The
inconvenience.
machinery was of so cumbrous
b
a nature, that
same, and the
it would be attended with the greatest
fie imagined that it was the wish of the Honl'ivier
give superintendence to the rate-payers, and in thisr dersir
to
be concurred ; but the plan proposed was so burdensome,
that it must necessarily fail in attaining its object. If the
iron. Member had introduced the measure earlier in the
Session it Migilt have been fully discussed. country as_
sure the FiCin. Member that the feeling of they was
against the measure. It would be necessary to travel great
distances, and to go to considerable expense to exercise the
franchise under this measure, and people were getting tired
i of going these distances to vote.
Mr. EW ART thought as the Hon. Member for Somer-
setshire approved of the principle of the Bill, he ought to
vote with the Hon. Member for Kilkenny. If the machinery
was complex it could be amended in Committee, and the
Hon. Gentleman, as a country gentleman, was one of the
keet fated for the purpose of suggesting these amendments.
It was asked, how could it be possible for the country
gentlemen to travel thirty or forty miles to do the duty.
But they travelled quite enough as it was. And such
boards existed in France, where in fact they were the only
means of teaching the French the advantages of a repre-
sentative system. Seeing that the principle of the measure
twas admitted, it was unfair to reject the Bill on details,