The Sun.
London, England, 1801-03-10 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLMMENT •
HOUSE OF PEERS.
411
. 101144 y, cA
THE Bishop of PErEROLPLOUGIE3 'Ards P 471:
Dr WILTON and Roils were sworn anti took
tileir
_seats, .
The several Bills before the Howe were (Qr..,
warded in their respetlive stages',

One Ptivate 1141 Was brought opity- -Lord
GEORGE CAVP.NDISH, &c. from the Commons,
and forthwith read. a first, time,

Some Private Business was traris4aed ; alter
which their Lordships adjourned till to-morrJw.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

MONDAY, MARCII g.

SIIV,ERAL Members 'were sworn in, amonl
whom tvcre Mr. YORKE, and rord DE aLA.
211 zEgg..

Lord TEAMLE mcnied, gi That Mr. CLIME

xoE be diretted to attend the' Bar .of the
House tomorrow, in order to be examined re,-
speding the Case of Mr; HOR NE:I.6OZZ
Mr. GREY said he had given.' pOtiee •of a
Motion for Wednesday next, and it Was extreme-
ly unpleasant to him to be miller the 'necessity of
postponing it •so frequently,; but it would be
attended' with considerable' embarrassment if he
were to bring it on, on the day ft:4 which he had
given notice; He would therefore, with the Per-
missiou of the House, postpone it to a future day,
when he trusted there would be no occasion fOr
'pitting it off again. He wished to be informed
from some Gentlemen on the other -side, when
the arrangements were likely to take place, as-he
wished the Ministers to be present- When' the Mo-
tion came on. He concluded with giving notice
that he would Wog on the Motion on Friday
se'nnight.
Mr. MERIDA N said, he' hoped the Same
go:minds which had induced his Friend to
-put off •his Motion (and those grounds must be
obvious to every body) would induce 'a Noble
Lord opposite to him (Lord C- STL'ERenctaj, to
postpone his Motion, for though it might be
said, that the continuance,of Martial Law- Ire,
land was an objefi of- the greatest importance,
yet he was not aware of any material inconve-
nience that could resuftllorn a short delaY:

Lord C ASTLER EAG II said, he • should be
hapl,y if he could comply, iwith,the application of
the. lion. Gentleman ; but he did entertain a
strong, topc that there swoUtd.be", no great cilftrl•
ence oropinion upon the 311biekt, arid in the pre.
sent state of Ireland, he could 'not consent to
postpone his motion..
Mr. 1..(1 presented screrill Public Accounts,
which'were ordered LC; lie on the Table.
Mr. ROSE moved; that the -1-lotise should re_
solve itself into a Committee, to 'take into con-
sideration the Ad 'of the 38th Geo. 111. Car.
rcipeaing the Duties upon I:orses.engaged in
Husbandry.

The House having resolved itself into .4 Com-
mittee, Mr. BitAcaz in the Chair,
Mr. ROSE moved,' as a Resolution, it That
any persOnholding'aTarm of less-than-201, ivear,
making his livelihood by the same, and not keep-
ing more than lull; Horses, should 1x exempted
from the Duties imposed by! this Att." The
Resolution was agreed to, and thelleprirt was!
ordered to be received to:.tricirrow.
The Horse Duty Bill was ordered to be read a
third,time tos,inotroW..
Lord,CASTI, i E AGHmdliecl,f' Thar the House
should resolve itself ,into a Committee on' the
Irish, Master of the Rolls' Bill."
The Horse having resolved itself Into a Coin.:
mittee, Mr. FRENCH in the,Chair,
Mr.. SH'ERI PAN said, that this. Bill was of
much more'importaoee 'than it seemed. in general
to be thought to be. 4`.ln 'the first 'place, be
did not -approve of a Measure which, would
enable the „Nroplelord; 'who.' so much to his
owu honour, and to the benefit of the Coun-
try, (Plea the Office of chancellor, in Ire-
land, to be abscht for any considerable length. of
time. With respeti to ,the.salary which it was
proposed to' give ,to the M ASTI R of the ROLLS,
he certainly did not 'obje:cl twit, bUthe thought,
under the resent circulustuces, it ought not 'to
lie borne' by the Public. At p'resene *there were
two NOblerneo who, held the office of Keepers of
the Rolls, whose Places- he understood to be sine-
cures ; now it appeared to him but fair, that 'the
Salkry to be paid 41' the MA's E k of
..the -Ro
should rather be made up out of these sinecure
Places, than our' of the Public Putse.,' ► -

Lord CASTLEREAGH' stated.that the objed
of thicßill was Co make the Office of iyr Arum
Of the RoCt.s in Ireland, an efficient Legal Office,
with a Saldry of issool.-•--But acs .the"tegular fees
of that Office were not 'sufficient to make up that
, sum, it wasproposed.that the remainder should
be made good out of the Consolidated Fund,
therefore, all that the Public would: he called
upon to mike good) would be the difference be_. tween the proposed Salary, and the Fees of the
Office. As to 'what. the Hon. Gentleman said
respecting the two Noble Lords who were at pre-
sent Keepers of the Rolls, it• was necessary to
inform the Hon: Gentleman, that a Bill passed in.
. the last Session of the frith Parliament, similar to
one which passed in England, for allowing the
-Judges to be superannuated on Pensions.--In
that Bill a Provision was made, allowing the
Keepers, of, the Roll's to claim an' indemnification,
it being then foreseen thar'it would he necessary
to make the MATER of the Roi.i.s an 'efficient
Legal Officer. • As this Went to extinguilh the
otfilx of CommissiOners or Keepers of the. Rolls,
it was' thought fair; that persons who, had nor
been •guilty of any delinquency, . should 'not • be
deprived of their offices without 4 cotopeoution.
' Mr, SIIERILLIN. saidt: he was not .aware
14 oat Bill having been passehr liehni4, -I*g

. .
in his opinion it made the measure %voile. As
to Mowing the Judges ro be superannuated o a
PWon, 'no initLeould oinLft. t it. „Noshing
c'outtbe more itr4- r ' th—Tilia a perso4,;.whl
ilia
Id 4voted sevetaN!years is- • to rica 6 er-
,..:e —of the Viiitisi::"an. ‘ duo' and labekious
situation, sho %. a -' visiprmade fOittim
in his old age; but this bore-no resemblance. to
the superannuation of two nonentities, who
- mid-always-do . t heir:hair-forte-best Ttistb: e
reason; bevkitse, they liaa‘iiothing to do.
Lard:CASTL ERE etali, -said', :- that upon-this
Occasion thu..Parliament of Ireland bad'atted upon
those principles which'itibelieved alWays govnrn _
ed the Parliament' of both Countries-,- viz. that
those 'who were deprived- of their .Offices. without
any misconduet of .their own, . 'slibuld receive a
compensation. the. Parliament of-Ireland,. who
certainly were the best Judges niacin the subjeCt,
had considered it, aud:had given _ their sitiailin
to the principle for which he-was now contenting,
by providing the Means for' those who now held
the Office (and who were. now to -be deprived of
it, not
.in consequence of their having done any
thing wrong, hut because the Public service re:
quired a different arrangement) of retiring with
compensation for their loss.

I hat
v ic,

Mr. SHERIDAN said; he felt the highest
respeCt for the Parliament of Irelan4 hut he sup..
posed that Parliament, like the Parliament of
lingland,ovadiable to error. The Noble Lord
had stated, that it was usual to.give compensa-
tion to those. who we(e. deprived of their places
wirliout any miseonduel of their own, but 'he
wished to ask, .how the two Noble Lords, who
nowld the Office, could aft wrong, when they
had nothing to do? The Noble Lord must be
aware, that it cases where compensation had becil
usually/granted, it was to persons who held Of.
fices for their lives, or
.quamilizi•re bent. generint,
but the places in question were held at the plea..
sure of the C(own. He did not believe that :try
precedent could ber stared, Where a compensatio:i
had been granted to a person holding a Sinecure
Office at the pleasure of
•the Crown.

Mr. GREY perfe&ly concurred in what had
fallen from -his 'Hon. Friend. It was usual un-
d7ubtedly to grant compensation. to persons hold _
ing Places pamdiu se . bene ge:seri??t, if they- were
removed from those Oftices-without any delinquen-
cy on their part ; but it was rathei difficult to
conceive what kindsof:delinqueney persons e.o.uld
be guilty of who had nothing to. do. He wished
to ask the. Noble Lard, whether. if 'the.
persons who had been alluded to had opposcd- the
'Union, they would now-receive a comperrszt:L.,:l .
here as, an Rion. ,Me mbar,' in that, 1-lou who,
fUr haven; allied' according to iris sconseioce in
the question of Union," had been dismissedltoto
his office,. not a .sinecure one; bill one whidi ke
had discharged with great--credit to himself, that
of presiding. over the Finan6e Departinent of Ire-
land,
.and this Hon. Member had. received no
compensation. If then persons who lm l' filled
great and important offices wcrc to be dismissed
for acting according to their conscience, v.-t
-hour
compensation, he saw-no reason whit ivshotqd be
granted, to clime holding Siecttrc,Pl'aCes at. the
will of the Crown, and Ix -new. charge' upon
the Public unnecessarily trusred
that Parliament would not give their assent to a
measure which, even if precedents could be quoted
in favour of it, he should consider as a Job.
Mr. RYDER begged to Observe, that the subjeft
upon which the two Hon. Gentlethen ivho spoke
last had enlarged so much, was one, tipon which-
the. Committee were net called qpoo to
.decide,
as it.foiMed no pait of. the question before them..
The real question before the .Committee was,
Whether. they thought, it right that there should
he an efficient Master of the &ills in Ireland, and
if they did; whether there ought to be a eorniii•
tent Salary annexed to tilat.o*.e? As, to the
other point upon which .so much had been said,
the Committee had nothing to,do with. it, 16t. it
had been considered. and settled lay the Pailia-
ment of Ireland. If Gentlemen were of opinion
that the decision of that ,P itlianient was wrong,
they might bring .in a Bill to repeal it If they
pleased, but it had .nothing to do with the pre.
sent Bill. As to the real. question 'before the
Committee he had not heard two opinions -about
it,

Mr. ALEXANDER concurred in opinion
with Mr. RY DER ; but as
.l e. spoke 'rather low,
we were unable to hear many,parts of his. speech

Mr. Al. A. TAYLO R said, he.wished to ham
the office of 'Master of the Rolls in .I*relalid
properly filled, and hc thought it right-:that a
large salary should be anne;ted, to it; -but he dib.
approved of giving ,a composati9n to two per.
sons because they' were removed from-a sinecure
office which they held at the will of tilt Crown.
•

It had been said that-the Parliament bat) -
pingo:llin AEI to enable thein - to retire with Pen.
• mons, but' he 'saw no reason why kelauSe shoidd
not be introduced into this repeal that
part of the Aft, and if nobody else biought it) a.
clause 'to that effed, he did not kpow *hether.he
himself should not propose
.one.—The Noble
Lord had spoken of, precedents, but he did not
belieVe.that any. could
,be produced. In the case ,
of the Auditor of the Impress,-• a compensation
had been granted, but that was a place for. life.
'He concluded iirith moving, that the Chairman
rerort 0". resi, and "slit leave to sit
again.
Lard C.4STLE REACH vial that, the -Prop_
sition made by the Hon. Gentleman who spoke
last, would completely break the faith of the
,Irish Parliament, which was pledged. to the Per-
sons holding these. Offices. The Parliament of Ire.
land tho'ught, That if the places-were taken frOin

these Persons, they would lir entitled to ciftupen.
satiOn ; and they had expre3sed that opinion in.
the .Aet ..which was passed, and he hoped. the
United Parliament would not commence its pry..
ceetlings by violating thifaith which had heen
given tfy the Parliament of. Ireland. •As to the
question of the proprkqy of the compensation, it
-was not for 'him flaw to. discuss it, becatrie it
stood upon the faith of the Irish Porlialuent—
As ty-th; real ,que4tiori uptim -vi*t. they were
ca11e449 tlecicle„ lie had not ltipttt tog apiniorit

stated. the 'lNTbble- -Lard the ttead of the Conti
of Chancery, tuuSt.necessarily atiend his duty in.
Parliament here ; and-the question was, whether
it would be right, that the business Of te Cant t
of Ch.ancery.should, or- shauld not, stand still O.
his abknre ? •

• ',lir:: ill. A. TAYLOR contended; th-at furthei'
time ought to he given For consideration.
Air-.:-'443/4&-stifiti-chlr-tigh2l4.l-not..oppose -Ate
Bill generally, batle concurred in thinking that
dui .
„kJ), ~„,.„.„ . • .
The Cornmitree":4fdivWed-:4•for Mr. TA-i.
LOR'S-MOtio 4.6, agiinit it 109. .
-When we%r-ere-re.aliinitted, We found.
Ski E 00-.70-ptrafrrig-C't,:titigeror ;hlloWing the
Master of=tife-Rolls to appoint a Deputy.
Lorif 'CASTLE REMI-1-sici, theThimty, , svho
was to be approved of bylthe CJiattcellor, was
nor to assist -the 'the the; u.
but-alert:ly in the Mi.
nistertal part.
• The eqt through .the Coirmittee,
and "the 'Report Ivas cArt!el-ed :) te/cceiwtht to.
morrow.

~

_ Mr. IZAGCE said, that in consequence tir
the House having bcen counted out .on Friday
several orders had dtopt which it would be .ne-
cessary .to fix.- He. then tnoved, that the House
should to-morrow sesolve itself into a Commit-
tee upon the Marine Mutiny Bill, upon the Seuri;!l
Distillery 1/3.11, upon the East tuella Goods Bill,
upon the Mutiny Bill, upon the report of the
Corn- Committee, and upon the American Flout
• •
Bill.

These Motions weivtgreed to.-
TNt Committee of Supply And Nays 'and
.Meatia was ptit'off till Wednesday.
Mr, ROSE mated " That the House should:
resolre Well' into a Committee-upon the Bill:for
laying a' duty upon Paper.":
Loci WILLIANt Rassti. wished the 'House
previously to go into a Ceinwittee on the Bill for
exempting persons in certain cases • from paying
the Poor_Rates. After a short conversation be._
mem the Noble Lord, Mr: Srr v a s, and Mr.
ROSE, the Houie resolved itself into a Committee
on tha•Peper Duty Rill.
Air, MANNING' gave, notice that he shoat
on • Wednesday-.next bring '-forward 'a Motion oii
the subjeet of'the CoarTrade in tile -Port of Lori:.
don, which required -much •regulatioui- since, -at
present, the Laws_ were- so complicated, -that
Lawyers theniselyes hardly knew whir wcts, at 4
what teas not Law ; he .was anxious, howeveri to
litre• it :iiikfirstOod that Ilk object was not, to
touch the- Tradels-it was now carrietl on in the.
Nock because- the . Laws now in being, -if
properly enforeed; were Adecuate:.to the sup re,..
,i9n-of ,all,.Combinations tri. the ,Trade there;
neither' did-'he gal at ary thipg.in the, Inlan4
•• • _
Ca
.reatilligs'the.:*Order of _ they' Day .on tha
Parochial Relief for a time ,`to be Thniteri,,
..ndlich *as-. ide ihelrcitise 'to 4o dcnnalittee,
of the whole. House on the Bill, -
TZERXEY presented a Petition agshot
the-Bill, on behalf .ef certain Inhabitants 'of -the
Par4h Of St. George, in the Borough of South,
wark. oiserved, that in -reality the Petitions
came froM a Vestry that 'was held in that parish,
and that-was the teased, for 'the. small_ mintier oe
Sigilat'tircs that appeared;. but it could not be
presenteti as a Petition corning froth a Vestry, thee
Patlerof the House not allowing a Petition w be
received' unjet such a title, and, therefore, itlirti
called the Petition. of the Inhabitanti of lila parish,
acs la troh

The Petitiotk being read,'
Mr. q't Inuit said, that if the Bill wet into
a Committee,, and clic ala4k arcs fi ttp with 4'
Etrall tem, perhaps the ableftiort br the Pttitiemerit:
would not he insisted'4l)on, catbetwi it qttialA.
If
,ro4ld,

lout RUSSEZ then rooted, el That the
SPi4 NV R. do now leare -The Chair."
•
The SOLICITOR CIN/tßill said, tluit hay.,
in3-.taken.thd sense of the tidase upon a former
day, and that sense intimating that the Lill
ought to go into aCommittee' he should rot 0p...
:pose ibis Motioq, reserving his right to o,pputke
the Rill altogether when it cache out of the Com-
mittee, if it should appear to him neees-sary to do:
"se, and when,le apprehended,
lityof the knit would appear. -
Iifr..2OII.V.SPOAr said, that, after. what had
fallen. from the Learned and Ron. Gentleman, anti
what the If Ouse. had already- dotie,. he, rose_ with
great reluttance to-oppose the motion, but he Avas
impelled to it by a sense of duty. Many were
assessed-to the
.Poor. Rates, Who-were themselves
objeas of relief, add, therefore, could.not con.
tribute to the relief'others: At present, those
who:were- in thiS situation, must claim their ex..
emption, and .have their cases considered in the
Vestry, and when settled, every body would he
satisfiei,- and the Pc or:ltates* would he, suprot tti•
with regularity.-; but if this Bill should pass,
there would he a species compulsion..
thrown -on
.some persons', that might produce gieat
This, would-.also occasion great multi..
tudes of Appeals, and be-disitessing to those who
had to decide them, and difficult, if not impos-
tc) do so with eaaftnesi ' • and it would
make the burthen doUblelit' what it is at pre-
sent, on some tleseriptioris:of persons, while it
wholly exemptgd whets. There was another
.objedipti to this Bill; which. was-.not a light one,
that of exciting hopes, which could never be ful-
filled; for which reasons, he thought it his duty
leaving the Chair.
to. oppose-the Sr lAK IC aaS

My. CCRIVEN did not approve of the Bill,
butrhe thought it would be right to go into a ,
Comniittee on it, to see what improvements
ccMid he rude in it:, _He was a friend to the
Relief of thote who stood. in need of it, but the
question- was, Whether this was a right mode of
endeavouring to'obtaiit it ?

Mr. :ROSE said, he hoped the Hon. Gentle-
tirtn whp Fippos,ect this Motion would not piess
itiat opposition to a.division at ?regent ; and the
I%lenaber, wt,gizt recoliet% that he wpuhi