The Sun.
London, England, 1839-07-12 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY, JULY 12, 1839

t Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that he was not aware
t I that the Right Honourable Baronet objected to any
part of the clause now under (consideration for he
began with the third slause, and there was nothing in
the rest of his speech to show that he objected to the se-
cond clause. He (Lord J. Russell) considered this to be a
most important clause, on which the prosperity of the
people of Canada would very much depend. The Noble
Lord the Member for North Lancashire had stated two
different views as to the powers which ought to be granted.
He ( Lord .1. R.) considered that he was asking for all those
powers which might tend to the benefit and prosperity of
the people of Canada, and that the Noble Lord was con-
sidering only the maintenance of the peace of the province,
for which he was willing to allow the necessary security,
without consideration for those measures which would be ad-
vantageous to the province, and tend to its good regulation.
There had been in Canada repeated complaints of the in-
efficiency of the powers given to the Governor and Coun-
cil, as, for instance, the erection of court-houses and
gaols, and the trial of prisoners for minor offences. As
to defining the objects of taxation, he ( Lord J. Russell)
would not oppose any just limitation which might be sug-
gested; but he was strongly convinced of the necessity of
giving full power of legislation, not merely for justice and
police, but general and local improvement, with regard to
which there had been of old groat disputes between the
Council and the Assembly.
Sir R. PEEL explained that he certainly had inti-
mated a decisive objection to this clause.
Mr. BROTHERTON rose, but was put down by
immense vociferations of " Oh, oh l" The Hon. Mem-
ber, we presume, meant to move the adjournment, which
we fervently desire he had done, considering that it was
already past twelve.
The Committee divided, and the numbers were—
r the clause 174
Against it ......
Majority --18
Clauses two and three were then ordered to stand part
of the Bill.
On clause four being proposed,
Sir ROBERT PEEL proposed that the clause should
not interfere with the tenure of property, except in Mon-
treal, as had been proposed in the marginal note.
Lord HO WICK hoped that the Housewould pause before
they consented to this amendment, when they recollected
the manner in which the law of tenure bad tended to pro-
duce the late troubles. It this question were not settled
before the restoration of representative Government, this
old subject of dispute would be revived in a way that
would make it fatal to the working of the restored Consti-
tution ; but if it were settled previously, the Constitu-
tion would most probably work well and favourably.
Sir E. SUGDEN supported the suggestion of Sir R.
Peel.

Lord J. RUSSELL admitted that there was consider.
able force in the objection, because the Gover-
nor and Council would have the power of al.
tering the whole tenure of land. He was willing
to amend it in this manner : that any ordinances
which might be made should not come into operation
until confirmed by an Act of the Imperial Parliament.
After explanations from Sir R. PEEL and Mr. C.
BULLER, (who wrote out the terms of the amendment),
The amendment was negatived without any division.
Lord J. RUSSELL then moved the introduction of
words rendering necessary the sanction of Parliament for
alterations in the tenures, which was agreed to, and the
clause ordered, as amended, to stand part of the Bill.
The remaining clauses were agreed to, and the House
resumed.
The Older of the Day for going into Committee on the
Highway Rates Bill was then read, but
Mr. BROTHERTON rose, and the Committee was
postponed.
The Turnpike Acts Continuance Bill was read a third
time and passed, on the motion of Mr. FOX MAULE.
The Indemnity Bill passed through Committee.
The Soap Duties Drawback Bill passed through Com-
mittee.
Mr. HUME gave notice of certain clauses he intended
to propose in Committee on the Admiralty Courts Bill.
Oa the Order of the Day being read for going into Com-
mittee on the County Courts (advance of Money Bill),
Colonel SIBTHORP said—Not a sixpence tonight.
—( Laughter.)
On the explanation of Sir J. GREY, the Bill went
through Committee pro.forma.
Mr. L ABOUC HE RE brought in a Bill to amend and
continue the Act for the Government of New South
Wales.

The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and
.he House adjourned at Half-past One.

COURT OF COMMON COUNCIL.'

Yesterday a Court was held for the dispatch of busi-
ness. The principal notices of motion on the paper
of business were the following :—That this Court do
petition both Houses of Parliament against the Bill now
pending in the House of Commons, entiutled " A Bill
to amend the Laws relating to the assessment and col-
lection of Rates for the relief of the Poor, and to the
collection of County, Borough, and Police Rates ;"—and
that this Court do petition Parliament for the adoption
of Mr. Rowland Hill's plan for an uniform postage of
one penny. There was a very full Court.

To the Right Hen, the Lord Mayor, Aldermen, and
Commons, of the City of London, in Common Council
asFembled.
" Showeth,—That your memorialists are striving to
raise a sum of money by volnntary subscription, to
build ten additional Churches, schools, and parsonage-
houses in the very poor and populous parish of Bethnal-
Green. That the population of this parish chiefly
consists in artisans, weavers, and other persons of
very small incomes, and of many totally devitCte, who
are quite unable to provide places for public worship, or
schools for themselves.
" That many circumstances, in addition to the great
increase of the population of the metropolis, particularly
the late magnificent improvements in the city, have
removed a vast population from their ancient. Churches, and
compelled them to seek residences in Bethnal-green and
other districts around London, where from not having been
supplied with churches, schools, and clergymen, they have falleninto a deplorable state of ignorance, vice, and irre-
ligion. That your memorialists hope, under God's bless-
ing, by introducing a good system of parochial instruction
and management into this very poor parish, greatly to
improve the temporal as well as spiritual condition of the
inhabitants, and they most anxiously be the assistance of
the city of London, in the arduous undertaking in which
they are engaged.
" And your memorialists, as in duty bound, will ever
pray."
Mr. BUXTON (the memorialists having been asked
by the Lord Mayor whether they wished to add any-
thing to the statement made in their memorial) said that
he was able, from his knowledge of the large district
alluded to, to confirm every word stated in the petition,
and was anxious to add his supplication for assistance in
so pressing an exigency. He could; not give credit to
the accounts of the misery and spiritual darkness which
existed in the neighbourhood, until he employed a gen-
tleman, upon whom he could place the utmost reliance,
to inquire into its condition. He then ascertained that
in a district upwards of a mile in length, and a quarter
of a mile in breadth, and containing a population of
60,0001 persons, there was but one place of worship.—
(Hear, hear.) At each extremity there was a church,
but there was certainly 50,000 persons who could not
obtain entrance. He was well aware of the liberality with
which the Corporation of London had, upon various occa-
sions, contributed to the relief of the distressedinhabitanta
of Bethnal-greza in times of' starvation, and he was
convinced that, at the present moment of the dearth and
famine of religious instruction the aid of that Corpora-
tion would be willingly yielded.—( Hear, hear.)
In answer to some questions from members of the
Court, th 3 memor.alis s said that th; ministers of the
churches would Le supported by endowments, and that
8 out of 10 of the ministers were to be appointed by the
Bishop of London.
The petition was then referred to the Coal, Corn,
and Finance Committee.
SUNDAY TRADING.
Deputy HICKS ofliciaily brcu ht up the Report of the
Markets Committee, recommending that Farringdon-
market should be allowed to be kept open for the sale
of soft fruit until nine o'clock on the morning of the
Sabbath. The Deputy stated at the same time that
he by no means approved of the recommendation of the
Report.
The Loan MAYOR hoped that the Corporation of
London would not, after all that had been said about
Sunday trading, set the bad example of sanctioning the
violation of the salutary rule upon which they had
hitherto acted.—( Hear, hear.) He denied that it was
the good of the poor that was likely to be accomplished
by such a measure, or that the sale of soft fruit would
exclusively take place if the market were to be opened.
The fact was, a public market of everything would be
the result, and the abuses which would arise would be
intolerable.—( Hear, hear.)
The RECORDER intimated that the Report recom-
mended that which was against the law.
Mr. HEPPEL did not see what injury could arise
from the sale of fruit on Sunday. It was well known
that the rich could get what they pleased on Sunday.
It was upon the poor the prohibition to open the market
operated as a grievance.
After some observations from several other members,
the Report was negatived by a large majority.
REPORT ON THE COUNTY COURTS' BILL.
Mr. LOTT brought up the report of the Committee
on the County Courts' Bill, with a draft of a petition
to Parliament against the Bill. It was as follows :
" To the Right Hon. the Lord Mayor, &c., &c.
" We, whose names are hereunto subscribed, your Com-
mittee, to whom it was referred to consider the propriety
of opposing the Bill pending in Parliament, entitled a
Bill for improving County Courts, and to report our opi-
nion thereon, do certify that we have accordingly con-
sidered the said Bill, and it appearing to us that there are
several clauses therein highly injurious to the interests of
the public, and that the operation of the Bill if passed
would be to entail great inconvenience and expense upon
creditors by requiring them to follow their debtors into
distant parts of the kingdom, with their witnesses, to prose-
cute their claims, and procure the payment of their debts,
and that the Bill is also objectionable in other respects ;
we recommend this Honourable Court to petition the
House of Commons, praying that such Bill may not pass
into a law. And we have caused a petition accordingly
to ho prepared, which we annex to this our report, and
recommend the same to this Honourable Court for adoption."
The Report and petition were then unanimously
agreed to.
POSTPONEMENT OF THE MOTION ON THE NEW POOR
A6SESSAUNT DILL.
Mr. 'RODGERS, at the request of Mr. Asherst, post-
poned his motion for a petition against the New Poor
Assessment Bill, in order to enable that Gentleman to
brine; forward the proposition for the adoption of Mr.
R. Hill's penny postage plan, as the latter subject was
appointed for immediate consideration in the House of
Commons.

own acquaintances, refused credence, and dissension and
mischief to an immense extent was the consequence.
He had cited these instances, but it did not seem to
him, that after the meeting yesterday, the Court needed
further instances.—( Hear, hear.) With reference to
the suppression of domestic correspondence Mr. Ashurst
said that he could give instances that would
astonish the Court, but it was not necessary
and he would move the Court to petition both Houses
of Parliament for the adoption of the plan ; he trusted
that this petition and tlle petition agreed to yesterday,
and others coming from Liverpool and Manchester,
would induce the Chancellor of the Exchequer not to
jeopardise a great measure by insisting upon an unne-
cessary pledge.
Mr. GALLOWAY seconded the motion, and expressed
his regret that the Chancellor of the Exchequer should
raise an imaginary difficulty.
Mr. W. PRITCHARD begged to remind his friend,
Mr. Galloway, that the Court had not been so unmind-
ful of its duty to the citizens of London on this the most
important of modern administrative improvements, as his
friend had supposed ; on a motion which he (Mr. P.)
had the honour to submit, this Court, at the same time
that the Chamber of Commerce in Glasgow, and some
few other public bodies, had expressed their opinions
on the subject, was amongst the foremost to declare,
in a series of resolutions, and in petitions to
Parliament founded thereon, its conviction of the
wisdom and justice of the important change contem-
plated. At that time he (Mr. P.) had some diffi-
culties to contend with, arising from the subject
being but imperfectly understood by the community
at large ; but in a few short months, bow striking
was the change in this respect. Much praise was due
to the public spirit and perseverance of the Association
of Merchants, Bankers, and others in the City, who
had pursued the matter with such untiring energy, and
had but yesterday had the satisfaction of witnessing, at
the Mansion-house meeting, the extensive hold it had
taken upon public opinion ; and scarcely less commen-
dation belonged to his friend Mr. Ashurst, who, as the
solicitor of that body, had not only collected and ar-
ranged, with the greatest professional skill, the im-
mense mass of interesting and important evidence
submitted to the Committee of the House of Com-
mons, but bad given to the public, in his able
pamphlet, the lucid and irresistible conclusions deduced
from that evidence by his own comprehensive yet ana-
lytical mind.—(Hear, hear.) In all parts of the coun-
try the subject now deservedly occupied a large portion
of public attention. Parliament had been besieged with
petitions, and the periodical press had teemed with ar-
guments and illustrations showing the immense advan-
tages which the country could not fail to derive from the
adoption of Mr. Hill's plan. The only objection to it
that had been urged was an apprehension that some
loss might possibly be sustained by Government in
the falling off of the revenue. He (Mr. P.) concurred
with the majority of those who had reflected upon the
subject, in believing that, although some, and it might
be a considerable defalcation would naturally be the
first effect of passing from the present to the new sys-
tem, yet that that deficiency would ultimately, and
he thought in a very short time, be made up by the
immense increase in the number of letters which the evi-
dence showed was certain to follow the adoption of the
improved plan, and by the increased consumption of paper
and its exciseable produce consequent upon that in-
crease. But assuming, for the sake of argument, that
some permanent loss of revenue might be the conse-
quence of the change, it should be remembered that
the Post-office establishment was not a machine to be
used merely for fiscal purposes. The Report of the
Commissioners of Inquiry distinctly recognised its hav-
ing. a primary object of a much higher order. " The
facility of frequent, punctual, and quick communica-
tion (say the Commissioners) which the institution of
the Post-office is calculated to secure, may be justly
classed among the elements of profitable commerce. It
is essential to the purposes of Government, and sub•
servicut to all the ends of national policy." And again,
in another Report, " The principle of the Post-office
at its establishment, as is distinctly laid down in the
12th Charles 11., was to afford advantage to trade and
commerce. The direct revenue to be derived from the
Post-office was not the primary consideration." Apply-
ing these principles to the evidence taken, what was
the result ? That whilst knowledge and education had
been largely extended throughout the country, and with
them the intercourse of mind with mind, and whilst the
pursuits of commerce had multiplied to an immense ex-
tent, communication amongst those engaged therein,
the Post-office had, in its results, remained stationary
ever since the last improvement effected by Mr. Palmer
in the establishment of mail coaches.—(Hear, hear.)
What then had become of the surplus quantity of
letters beyond those transmitted by post ? They had
forced their way to the persons receiving them by so
many and such ingenious modes of elicit conveyance as
to baffle detection and seduce all classes of the
the community into a participation in such irregularities,
under the notion that they were a sort of pious frauds.
—(Hear, hear.) He would not press the argument
further. Ills friend, Mr. Ashurst, had so ably shown
the advantages of the new system in promoting social
and affectionate feeling amongst those classes of
the community to whom the present rates of postage
operated as a prohibition of intercourse, in facili-
tat.ing the results of commercial enterprise,; and removing
the temptation to fraud, that he would only acid one
further argument, and that was as to the obligation in-
eumbent upon Government to provide for the public the
most efficient system of post conveyance, as do neces-
sary and indispensable condition of their assuming a mo-
nopoly of the system, and interdicting the public from
finding their own means of conveyance. That the
public would, if left to its own resources
in the present age of improvement, and the formation
of companies, readily provide a highly improved system,
there could be no doubt; and, therefore, demonstrating
the superiority of Mr. Hill's system as had been done,
the public had a right to demand its adoption of the
Government, even though it might, which he (Mr. P.)
denied, be attended with some little loss of revenue.
Upon these grounds, he called upon the Court to join
with the other public bodies of the kingdom in soliciting
for the community at large of the Legislature, the im-
mense, social, moral, and political advantages that would
inevitably flow from the adoption of tha important sub-
ject they were now considering.
The motion was carried unanimously, only one band
being held up against it, amidst laughter.
The following petition was then moved :
" That the present rates of Postage fetter commercial
transactions, are prejudicial to the interests of the general
revenue, check the education and the moral progress of
the people, and tempt all classes to systematic violations of
the law.
" That the plan proposed by Mr. Rowland Hill for es-
tablishing a uniform postage of ono penny for each half-
ounce weight, to be paid in advance, would, in the opinion
of your petitioners, increase the general revenue, and ?hi.
match-, realise the present amount of Post-office receipts,
and prove a source of great social and moral benefit to the
whole community.
" Your petitioners, therefore, pray that no consideration
of an assumed temporary deficiency in the revenue will in-
duce your Honourable House to delay the introduction of
so important a national measure.
" And your petitioners will ever pray."
Mr. OBBARD moved that the words " increase the
general revenue" be omitted.
Sir P. LAURIE seconded the motion.
Mr. ASHURST said that the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer was anxious about the revenue. Now, it was
given in evidence before the Parliamentary Committee
by Mr. Charles Knight and others, Mr. Knight taking
the lead, that he pays a certain sum in the shape of
postage, and another sum in the shape of paper duties—
that if the postage were reduced he would pay double
the amount of the postage, and considerably more Ex-
else duty.
Sir P. LAURIE said he did not intend to oppose the
petition, but the Hon. Member having quoted Charles
Knight, he (Sir P. Laurie) would give him a better—
Colonel Maberly.—(Loud laughter.) The fact was,
that it was not so much the poor man that would be
relieved, but it would be—he would not mention
names.—(Laughter.)
The amendment of Mr. Obbard was then put, and
negatived without a division.
The original petition was then ordered to be prepared,
and presented by the Sheriffs.
A motion was afterwards made by Mr. WIRE, and
carried unanimously, that the petition and resolutions
should be printed in the usual Morning Papers.
After some other business, the Court adjourned.

CHARGE OF SHOPLIFTING.—Two sisters of
the name of Gibson, residing in Grosvenor- street West,
and said to be ladies of fortune, were on Wednesday exa-
mined at Queen-square on a charge of having stolen five
pairs of gloves from the shop of a draper at Knightsbridge.
They were remanded in consequence of the absence of the
shopman who gave them into custody.
AN 46 AFFAIR OF HONOUR."-Wednesday
morning, soon after seven o'clock, a hostile meeting took
place in Copenhagen-fields, between Mr. R., a gentleman
residing at Bayswater, and a military officer on half-pay.
It is stated that Mr. R., and some young ladies, relatives
of his, were viewing the Zoological Gardens, Regent's
Park, when they were followed by the officer, and one of
the ladies was repeatedly spoken to by him. Mr. R.,
feeling indignant at such conduct, remonstrated with him
on the impropriety of it, when words of an unpleasant
nature occurred, which caused the meeting. Mr. R ,
attended by two gentlemen, arrived in a chaise about five
minutes after seven o'clock, and was almost immediately
followed by his antagonist. The seconds having measured
the distance (12 paces), and endeavoured, but ineffectually,
to bring about a reconciliation, an exchange of shots took
place, when the officer received the contents of Mr. 11.'s
pistol in the thick part of his thigh. Mr. R. was slightly
wounded in his pistol hand. Both gentlemen, expressing
themselves " perfectly satified," shook hands, and were
conveyed from the ground to their respective residences.
The thick part of the thigh is almost always the sufferer in
these affairs of " honour" now-a-days.
'Lea Bermudez, one of the ex-Prime Ministers
of Spain, is at present in Paris, where he is said to be ac-
tively negotiating an arrangement of the affairs of Spain,
by means of the old project of a marriage between the son
of Don Carlos and the young Queen. The French Ca-
binet has long been supposed favourable to such a com-
promise.

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Stamped labels ......1 .005 f .97 -035 'O3 1
Stamps on letter pa- 1 f• the
per
on thepa- of the
per. § sheet
ofpaper
(say a
penny)
Stamped covers...... .091 1.091 1 nil. •15 less car- li
riage. If
Stamped envelopes. .05 1.05 ! nil. unknown.l I*
- -!-
Average per letter,
assuming the con-
sumption of each
kind to be equal . .102
D:tto, assuming the
first and second to
be one-third of
the whole
1 .1
'Alone 3' - payments 1
'''. ------------.

It appears, then, that the co
by stamps even at the higher esi
be less than one-sixtieth of a

lst of collecting postage
timate of the two, would
penny per letter ; while

Whether the ---
paper to be employed shall be Dicken-
'
on's, or that of any o!he!.m.nufacturer, would of course
be best determined by inviting all papermakers to send in
specimens and tenders, and adopting that which appears
most advantageous. This would put all on a perfect
equality.
t Envelopes are now sold at Is. 6d. per 100, or less
than one-fifth of a penny each.
This includes distribution.
§ Say one farthing, or 20 per cent. on the cost of paper
and stamp.

The carriage would probably cost about one cent.
4.1 Because the exact cost of making the envelopes is un-
known. The profit would probably be at least 14 per
cent.