The Sun.
London, England, 1839-06-08 00:00:00

POOR LAWS.

The Earl of STANHOPE presented a petition from
the parish of St. George the Martyr, Southwark, of
which be had given notice on the previous evening, and
which he read at length. The prayer of the petition
was, that their Lordships might be pleased to place no re-
liance or dependence on any thing emanating from the
Poor-law Commissioners.—( A laugh.) The petition was
only signed by the chairman and the deputy chairman, buti
had been agreed to at a numerous public meeting of the
Inhabitants.
Viscount MELBOURNE was entirely ignorant of the
facts of the petition, and so he believed were the Poor-law
Commissioners. He would suggest, therefore, that they
be furnished with a copy of the petition in the first instance.
Earl STANHOPE had no objection to the petition
being printed.
Viscount MELBOURNE was about to object, when
Lord BROUGHAM said, I really must interfere. If
the Noble Lord has no objection to 500 copies being
printed, he must have 500 times less objection to one copy
being printed. The Commissioners are put upon their
trial upon an unknown charge, which was given very much
in detail in the petition, and much will depend upon the
accuracy of their details. I really must say that my Noble
Friend, who has generally acted fairly—
Earl ST ANH 0P E— Always. —( Much laughter. )
Lord BROUGHAM—I will say always, if he does not
not make this case an exception.—(A laugh.)
Earl STANHOPE had no objection to a copy being
sent to the Commissioners, but, as to his making any spe-
cial communication to dictators, whose power he considered
illegal, he would certainly do no such thing.—(Much
laughter.)
Lord RODEN presented a petition, praying that their
Lordships would withdraw all countenance from the Roman
Catholic religion, and thereby advance God's honour, pro-
mote the Protestant faith, and preserve the land from the
_ judgments which fall upon apostate nations.
Lord REDE SD AL E presented a petition for addi-
tional endowments to the Church of Scotland.
COURT OF CHANCERY.

Lord LYNDHURST then rose to bring forward the
subject of the Court of Chancery. He had been requested
to do so, by gentlemen at the bar, and by solicitors prac-
tising in the Court—as well as by those who had been de-
scribed as its " victims," the suitors in the Court. He
found it impossible to resist their solicitations, and he was
the more induced to bring the subject forward by the pas
sage in her Majesty's Most Gracious Speech at the open-
ing of the Session, in which her Majesty directed the anx-
ious attention of Parliament to the necessity of providing
for the speedy administration of justice. Four months of
the Session had since elapsed—and not a'single word bad
been said in their Lordships' House, nor any measure in-
troduced into tho other, respecting the Court of Charcerv.
He now wished to recall the attention of her Majesty's Mi-
nisters to that- passage in her Majesty's Speech—which
passage they had now forgotten. He could not, indeed,
say that the country was without a Government—but he
thought that the country might as well be without a Go-
vernment
as not possess a Ministry with power or energy
enough to propose and carry through Parliament those mea-
sures which the great interests of the country demanded.
But not one single measure of any importance had been
during the present session introduced into their Lordships'
House by the Government, or brought up from the other.
—( Hear, hear.) He did not mean on the present occa-
sion to enter into the general question of the Courts of
Equity. He only meant to advert to what he deemed the
crying evil of the Court; and endeavour to apply a prac-
tical remedy to an enormous practical abuse. There were
at the present time an arrear of 850 causes standing for
hearing-550 before the Lord Chancellor and Vice-Chan
cellor, and 300 before the Master of the Rolls. The ave
rage time for which they had stood for hearing, was, in the
Lord Chancellor's Court, two years. Ile was told that
before the Master of the Rolls, it amounted to a year and
a half; and that, taking the two together, an average of
two years elapsed before a cause came on for hearing.
This was a grievance that ought to be remedied. In or-
der that their Lordships might understand this more fully,
he would enter into some more particular explanation.
The first hearing was not a final one—there might be
various other steps to be taken in consequence. There
might be an issue to be tried by a jury ; inquiries to be
made before the Master, or accounts to be taken conse-
quent upon the first hearing, and a year or more might be
employed in this manner. The cause then came back to
the Master to report ; and if both parties did not agree,
exceptions could be taken to the report, and a further de-
lay take place. Ile had said enough to satisfy their Lord
ships that a delay of several years might elapse between
the commencecaent and the conclusion of a cause. Again,
ell parties interested must beton the record, either as plain-
tiffs or defendants ; and if any of these parties die, a fresh
cause of delay takes place, because it is necessary to revive
the suit by a new Bill ; and it often happens, before a
cause is finally determined, that three or four of these
revivers take place. Now, if it were supposed there were
ISO causes, each occupying on an average two years, 7,0001
would he p iid as term fees to the Officers of the Court,
and these term fees were also payable to the parties' own
solicitor. When any new circumstances arose,anew Bill was
necessary to state them, and this frequently rendered mo-
tions necessary. Lord Hardwicke, on one of these motions
being brought before him, refused to hear it, as be knew
nothing of the cause, and ordered the cause to be advanced.
that the motion and cause might be heard at the same time,
but the present state of business would not admit of this,
because suitors low in the paper would bring forward fri-
volous motions, in order to advance their causes. He had
rather understated than overstated the case—( Hear, hear)
and he would bring forward one example as an instance of
the evils. Suppose a family entitled to an annuity under
a will—the trustee refuses to act—and an application is made
to the Court of Chancery. In the meantime not one farthing
of the annuity can be touched, and the family must be
left to starve, or to raise money at usurious interest. It
was their Lordships' duty to ponder on these things, and
to see that justice was speedily administered, not sold, not
denied, or not delayed ; for, in the words of the Noble and
Learned Lord opposite, a delay of justice was equivalent
to a denial of justice. He believed that it would be more
advantageous to many parties to have a decision adverse to
them at an early stage of a cause than to be subjected to
these delays. He begged not to be understood as casting
the slightest reflections on the manner in which business
was now conducted in the Court of Chancery. He knew
that the exertions of his Noble and Learned Friend on the
Woolsack, and of his Noble and Learned Friend the Mas.
ter of the Rolls, were most meritorious; and the same ob.
nervation would apply to the Vice- Chancellor, who devoted
his whole time and energies to the business of his Court,
aad he believed that they all devoted more time to the
administration of justice than the country had any right to
demand of their Judges. He was one of those who
thought that Judges ought not solely to be confined to the
administration of justice; but on the contrary ought to
have time for intellectual relaxation, as he thought the
confining the attention too much to one subject had a ten-
dency to contract the ideas. Their Lordships would see
that of late years these arrears had increased, he did not
ascribe this to any want of energy on the part of the Noble
persons who now presided in the Court of Chancery.
He found that in Michaelmas term 1819, there was 950
causes; in 1824, 906 ; in 1829, 700; in 1834, when his
Noble and Learned Friend opposite held the seals, 491 ;
in 1835, 630; in the following years, 746, 773, and 850.
He had adverted to 1834, when his Noble and Learned
Friend opposite retired from the Woolsack, as the period
at which there was the smallest number of causes standing
for hearing. He ascribed that in part to the active
exertions of his Noble and Learned Friend, also
to the extraordinary dispatch of Sir John Leach,
the then Master of the Rolls, who heard more
causes within a given time than any Judge who ever
sat, or perhaps who ever would sit. He ascribed it also
to the circumstance that hi 1832 the bankruptcy business
of the Court of Chancery was removed to another tribunal.
But notwithstanding all that, the increase of business had
been such as that the arrear of causes now standing for
hearing was 850. It had been said that these evils did not
exist in the time of Lord Hardwicke. That was an entire
mistake. The publications of that time were full cf the
same complaints of the Court of Chancery that were

complained of in the present day. One of those publica-
none
to which he referred, and which described the griev-
ances of the Court of Chancery, was what was called
t: Animadversions on the Court of Chancery," pub-
lished in the year 1756. The Court of Chancery
however, was at that time in a very different state to that
which it was in now. No doubt an additional Judge bad
been appointed, and it had been relieved of the bankruptcy
business; but, according to a statement made by his Noble
and Learned Friend on the Woolsack three years ago, it
appeared that the number of causes entered for hearing
now exceeded, by three times, the number entered in the
days of Lord Hardwicke—the number of petitions ex-
ceeded them seven times—and the number of motions was
about the same proportion. This was a complete answer
to any statement that a Chancellor of the vigour and
energy of Lord Hardwicke would have got rid of the ar-
rear. But this was an old grievance. It had ex sed
as
long as the Court of Chancery itself had existed. When
Wolsey gave up the Great Seals, we were told that
there were causes which had been pending for twenty years ;
and that when Sir Thomas Hoare succeeded him, he de-
voted himself night and day to get rid of the arrear. By
a reference to the celebrated speech of Lord Bacon, the
day on which he took his scat in that Court, in the time of
James the First, it. was clear that the same evils existed.
In the reign of Charles the First the same complaints of
the Court of Chancery were made over and over again.
At that time it was stated that there was more business in
that Court than the Lord Chancellor and the Master of
the Rolls could possibly dispose of, and accordingly a Bill
was then brought into Parliament for the purpose of ap-
pointing two additional Judges, to enable them to get rid
of it ; but what the history of that Bill was, or why it had
been abandoned, he (the Noble and Learned Lord) had
not been able distinctly to trace. In Charles IL's time the
same complaints were made. Publications showed that the
same complaints existed in the time of Lord Cowper,
as well as in:the time of Lord Hardwicke, and persons were
now living who were able to carry back their recollection
for fifty or sixty years, and to remember the complaints
then. Why was he (the Noble and Learned Lord)stating
all this ? Simply for the purpose of satisfying their Lord-
ships that there was nothing personal in the subject he was
bringing forward—that-by no number of Judges now ap-
pointed could the business be got rid of, and that their
Lordships must apply some distinct remedy for it. What
was to be the remedy? It was beyond the physical energy of,
it was absolutely impossible for, any three Judges to get
rid of the number of causes, which albeit were now in-
creasing. What would be done in any similar case ;in a
case of manual labour, for instance, or in a case of litera-
ture and science, where a given quantity of work was to be
done in a given time. If the hands to do it were too
few the number would have to be increased. His opinion
was that the Judges ought not to be oppressed by their
work. No Judge could decide well and satisfactorily who
was constantly teased to decide speedily. He must have
ample time to consider, in order to enable him in his de-
cisions to satisfy the public, to satisfy the profession, and,
above all, to satisfy the persons whose interests depended
upon correct and just decisions. When he had the ho-
nour of holding the Great Seals he found it was impossible
to keep down the arrear in the then state of the Court. He
thought if he could model the Master of the Roll's Court,
that that would be attended with benefit. The Master of
the Rolls then only sat for a very short time in the after-
noon in term time, and for three hours in the evening—
sometimes not more than twelva hours in the week. He
applied to Sir John Leach to give up his evening
sittings and to sit as the other Judges did. Sir John
Leach immediately consented to it. Benefit was the im-
mediate result, but still the measure was not adequate to
the occasion. He, therefore, (the Noble and Learned
Lord) deemed that something farther should be done, but
he had no hope of doing any good without a legislative mea-
sure. Accordingly he brought in a Bill, which was re-
newed in another session. That Bill went through their
Lordships' house with unanimous approbation. It was
supported by Lord Tenterden, Lord Eldon, Lord Redes-
dale, and he believed by all the legal authorities of the
House. In the other House of Parliament, he knew not
from what motive, whether from party feeling—

Lord BROUG HAM—No, no.
Lord LYNDHURST—Whatever it proceeded from, it
met with the most vigorous and acrimonious opposition. A
learned person, once his (the Noble and Learned
Lord's) own colleague, Sir C. Wetherell, distinguished
himself as the leader to the opposition of that Bill, and
applied terms both to the Bill and to the prospective Judge,
which to him, seemed to be the most extraordinary. He
believed his Noble and Learned Friend opposite took a
part in that opposition. They said the intention was to
make the Chancellorship a sinecure, and that if a new
Judge were appointed, all the business that ought to be
done by the Chancellor would devolve upon his Deputy.
The opposition was carried on for two days, when the Bill
was passed by a great majority, but unfortunately in two
days afterwards, a demise of the Crown took place, and
the Bill was lost. He (the Noble and Learned Lord)
could think of no remedy now for the evil that existed,
except having a similar Bill. There must be more Judges.
It was a great inconvenience, no doubt, to establish a
new Court both to the public and to the bar,
but that inconvenience bore no comparison to the intoler-
able grievance of the present state of things. It was of
the utmost importance to the interests of families that
causes should not remain for years undecided. When he
brought forward his Bill it was objected to on the ground
that the Bankruptcy business aught to be separated from
the Court of Chancery. He objected to that separation I
on two grounds; first, because he thought it would not
be sufficient for the purpose, and in the next place, be-
cause he thought the appellate Jurisdiction of the Court
of Chancery was better vested in the Judges of the Court
of Chancery than in any others. The experiment was
tried very soon after his Noble and Learned Friend oppo-
site accepted the Great Seals, and the alteration had
occasioned no substantial relief to the Court of Chancery.
Three Years ago his Noble and Learned Friend on the Wool-
sack brought forward his measure. He ( Lord L.) then
'Aeragested what he had always thought to be the best plan,
, but he was told that his plan was too narrow, mean, and
scanty, and that his Noble and Learned Friend's plan was
much more extensive. His Noble and Learned Friend's
measure, however, did not meet with the approbation of
the House, and therefore it fell to the ground. He (Lord
Lyndhurst) had al.va;s been for a progressive reform, if
he might be allowed to adopt the expression which the
Noble Viscount opposite had used the other night. Of what
advantage would it be to facilitate the progress of a cause
up to the hearing, unless the hearing of it also were facili-
tated ? He had accordingly suggested means for facilitating
the hearing, and if he had succeeded in that, it was then
meant by him to have directed his attention to the
reformation, if it required reformation, of the whole of the
appellate jurisdiction of this country; but he considered
it premature to reform the appellate until the interior
jurisdiction was reformed. When it had been suggested
that a new judge should be appointed the observation was
made that that would only increase the number of appeals
with which the Court was already blocked up. He had
never thought there was any foundation for that observa-
tion. Suppose there were 800 causes to be heard, and
50 of the decisions were appealed—by hearing them all
750 would be disposed of, and the 50 that remained ap.
pealed would not be in a worse situation than if the whole
had remained unheard. At the time when his Noble and
Learned Friend (Lord Brougham) opposite beck
the Great Seals there was a great arrear of appeals;
when he left that Court there were only, he
believed, a very few, if any, remaining. His Noble
and Learned Friend disposed of 160 appeals in
one year. He ( Lord Lyndhurst) knew that that Noble
and Learned Lord sat up day and night, and worked most
laboriously for accomplishing that of ject which he so effi-
ciently attained. It had been said also that the Lord
Chancellor had no time to devote to the hearing of original
causes; hut his Noble and Learned Friend opposite had
heard many original causes, because his appeals had been
disposed of. It was, however, impossible for his Noble
and Learned Friend on the Woolsack to hear original
causes, because there were one hundred appeals unde-
cided; forty had been heard and were waiting for judg-
ment, and sixty remained to be heard. He had no.s
pointed out what appeared to him to be the practical re-
nedy for the grievance; and when he looked at the Court
of Exchequer the want of this remedy appeared to be- the
more extraordinary. The Court of Exchequer was a Court
of Equity as well as a Court of Common Law. They could
decide if the Court of Exchequer had all the machinery
belonging to the Court of Chancery—all the offices and
everything that was necessary for constituting a proper
court. But as far as equity was. concerned that Court was
without a Judge. The Lord Chief Baron and Mr. Baron
Alderson, when they could be spared from the common law
court, which was always at great inconvenience to the com-
mon law court, sat in equity and administered justice there
to the perfect satisfaction of the bar and the suitors. This
was at great inconvenience to the common law business of
the Court of Exchequer, because that Court had as much
business in it as the Court of Queen's Bench, and it was
complained that that Court should not have five Judges de-
voted exclusively to the common law as well as the Court
of Common Pleas, which was a Court greatly inferior to
the Court of Exchequer, and which had five Judges conti-
nually occupied there. What was the obnoxious remedy
for this evil in the Court of Exchequer? The ap-
pointment of a permanent Judge undoubtedly.—(Hear.)
He thought one great advantage of carrying his proposed
measure into effect would be that it would give a permanent
Judge to the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council.
That Committee was not a Court of Equity alone, not a
Court of Common Law alone, but had to decide upon
questions of Spanish law, of two different branches of
French law, and of Dutch law—how important then was it
to have a permanent president for their -Court who should
feel it his duty to make himself properly qualified to ad-
minister justice to the suitors in that Court ? He would
appeal to the Lord President of the Council whether it
was not of the utmost importance that this should be the
case. Another great advantage of this arrangement
would be that the barristers practising in that Judge's Court
would follow him, and there would be the advantage of
a permanent bar as well as a permanent Judge. He did
not intend to meddle with the complicated evils of the
Court of Chancery, he should confine himself to one
object, he would lay his finger upon one grievance to which
he would apply his present remedy, and he trusted it would
be successful in proportion to its simplicity. His Noble
and Learned Friend on the Woolsack had brought forward
his plan for the improvement of the Court of Chancery,
which was not opposed by his Noble Friend opposite, who
had also a plan of Reform much more extensive. His
Noble and Learned Friend who sat below him had also his
plan; with this war of giants it was his wish to have
nothing to do, he had no wish to come within the arm of it.
Having thus proposed a specific remedy for a specific
evil he would leave the whole in the hands of her Majesty's
Government, because although if be brought it forward in
that House it might be successful, judging by the fate
of his former Bill, he doubted if it would be successful in
the .other House of Parliament, unless he could procure
for it a father more able to protect it. He hoped, there-
fore, his Noble and Learned Friend on the Woolsack would
agree to bring in a Bill of this nature, and if he did so he
should have his cordial support, because he was anxious to
see this evil remedied, on account of the profession to
which he belonged, and still more on account.of the suitors
who were suffering in consequence of this delay. He should
conclude by moving for the returns of which he had given