The Sun.
London, England, 1839-07-13 00:00:00

Lord SANDON presented a petition from Liverpool
to the same effect, and praying the House to pledge itself
to meke good any deficiency in the revenue which might
be the consequenco of adopting the plan.--( Cheers.)
Mr. AGLIO N B Y presented several petitions in favour
of a uniform penny postage.
Oa the Order of the D being read for the bringing
up the Report from the Committee of the whole House
on the Post-office Acts,

Mr. GOULBURN rose, but was for some time
inaudible, in consequence of the confusion which pre-
vailed in the House. He said that he could
assure the House it was not his intention to trespass long
on their patience at that late hour. In propssing the Re-
solutions of which he had given notice, he had no wish to
be considered as expressing an opinion hostile to the in-
troduction of a uniform rate of postage whenever the
revenue should be in a state fit for the adoption of such a
measure. But it was necessary before expressing an
opinion on this subject that the House should have before
it all the consequences that were likely to ensue in conse-
quence of the adoption of this measure. At this late pe-
riod of the Sessioe the House bad no opportunity of exer-
cising its discretion on a measure like the present, or of
discussing those great financial questions which were in-
volved in it. He had never entertained any expectation,
urea a very short time since, when some vague and obscure
intimation was given respecting this subject, that any men.
sure for a uniform penny postage would be submitted to
Parliament. He had heard her Majesty's Postmaster-
General in the other House of Parliament designate this
scheme as wild and visionary. Ile had heard every Ment-
he: of the Government who ha-i been on the Committee
appointed to investigate the subject,protest against this plan
—not on one occasion only but whenever the reduction was
proposed, her Majesty's Government objected to it; there-
fore he could have had no expeetation that the House
would have been called on this Session to give cff:ct to
the recommendations of the Committee, still less that
they would have been called on to give effect to a measure
for beyond that recommended by the Committee; and lie
thought that he should satisfy the House that such were
the opinions entertained by many Members of that Com-
mittee, which had reported that it would be desirable to in-
troduce a ua;ferin 10 v rats of postage, when the state of the
revenue would permit it. But if the Government intended
to propose this plan of uniform penny postage, they
should have laid before the House the details' of the
measure, but instead of doing this the Chancellor of the
Exchequer intended to Mtroduce a Bill proposing to con-
fide to the Treasury the power of m)kieg, such arrange-
ments as they may think fit to carry this measure into
effect. He would say that this was most unstatesmanlike.
—( Cheers.) If there was one duty more incumbent on
the House than another, it was not to give the Treasury
the power of relaxing any duties, but to fix the amount of
the imposts to be levied on the people, and to define
and circumscribe accurately the manner in which

those duties were to be levied. But that was not the
course proposed by the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Did
the House know the extent of the various interests involved

in this question? He had been engaged the whole morn-
ing in receiving deputations of persons who would be ag-
grieved by the adoption uf this plan ; he had seen paper-
makers, who were afraid that a monopoly would be created
on behalf of cne individual—stationers, who objected to
the sale of stamped covers being sold, instead of the sale
of covers being open to the puulic. He would not take
up the time of :he House by entering into these questions,
but he was satisfied that if this measure were adopted it
would inflict great pecuniary loss on individuals, and in
some instances absolute ruin. He had asked them why
they had not applied to the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
they had answered that they were not satisfied as to the
conduct or discretion of the Chancellor of the Exchequer
—that they wore disgusted—that they had represented
their situa!ioa to Parliament, and that they had a right
to call upon Parliament for protection for their interest.
He trusted they would not adopt the resolution of the
Right lion. Gentleman, which would preclude them from
exercising their duty on this subject ; but that they would
refuse to give the Government that discretion on thi;
subject, which was most unsafe to be entrusted to them
The system proposed by the Right Hsu Gentleman was,
besides being in itself a great evil, abominable as a prece-
dent. Ii adopted it would have a tendency to make the Relic
anxious to avoid the trouble of watching the business of
Government, and to evade the trouble of discussion If
they were thus to agree to leave everything to the Trea-
sury, that course would affect not only the postage and the
revenue generally, but also all other great questions which it
was now the business of this House to consider and discuss.
Ha ( Mr. Goulburn) asked the Right Hon. Gentleman to
postpone his resolution, and to agree to his (Mr. Gaul-
burn's) motion. The Right Hon. Gentleman admitted
that he could not have the new Post-office arrangements
ready until next year. Why not keep his motion over,
then, until the next Session, when he would be much better
able to go through the plan in a business-like manner?—
(Cheers, and cries of " Hear, hear.") There were
other objects in connexion with this measure which de-
served consideration. He alluded to the financial character
which was involved in his ( Mr. G.'s) resolution. During
three years the financial expenses of the country had ex-
ceeded its means. For three years the House had aban-
doned the great paramount duty of keeping its expenditure
within its means, or of endeavouring to raise the receipts
to an amount adequate to the demands upon them. If
this resolution, proposed by the Right Hon. Gentleman,
were carried, that deficiency which had hitherto been re-
garded as temporary would be made permanent, at least
for a period of ten years. If they were to take off the
revenue 1,500,0001., while we were deficient to the amount
of 2,000,000/o at the close of the next year the defi-
ciency would become 3,000,0001, or 4,000,009/. ; and at
the end of the follovving year it would have increased to
7,000,000/. or 8,000,0001. Was this state of things to be
ventured upon, at a time when the country was labouring
under a weight of debt that it could not support ?
( Cheers.) The Hon. Gentleman had talked about
pledging the House to make up for any deficiency that might
occur. But he ought to have much doubt in the validity
of a pledge. now that the project was disclaimed by great
numbers of Hon. Gentlemen opposite; some on the
grounds that it was unnecessary, others that it would be
uecessary to retain the revenue within the expenditure.—
( Bear, hear.) The present intention was altogether new
in the annals of the finance of this country. No man had
more earnestly deprecated such a system than Lord Althorp,
when he, as Chancellor of the Exchequer, was called upon
to repeal the malt tax and the house and window tax. The
Noble Lord used every effort to dissuade the [louse
from agreeing to such a proposition, when he was called on
in 1833 to agree to a reduction of taxation, and that at a
time when he had nothing like the present financial de-
ficiency—in fact, there was then a surplus of 700,0001. Ile
cautioned the House against adopting a precedent which
would lead to the most embarrassing results. He cau-
tioned them against the danger of taking off a million
and a half from the revenue, when we were already
deficient 600,0001. There was nothing more easy than
for a Minister to repeal taxes. There was nothing which
a Minister was more strongly tempted to do, especially
when his Government was in a difficult position, than to
gratify a popular call, by throwing away 1,500,000/. of the
revenue. It mattered not whether a tux pressed on the
commerce of the country like the postage tax—(Cheers)—
or on the national beverage of the poor, like the malt tax,
cr on the comforts and employment of the industrious
classes, like the cotton tax.—( Cheers.) It would be most
dangerous for the Government to accede to any popular
demand for a remission of any such tax, and to abandon
its own functions, unless it saw that the circumstances of
the country fully justified it. Instead of yielding to such
a cry, the Government should resist it, and he ( Mr. G.)
really believed that the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite cried
out for the proposed reduction against his own conviction—
against the sincere conviction of the Government. He was
sure the Right lion. Gentleman not really desire
Right

to adopt such a dangerous course as that which
he had been jutt warned against.—( Hear, hear, hear.)
What would be the cry to-morrow ?—( Cheers from both
sides of the House.) If the precedent was now set up of a
Government yielding, to popular clamour, a million and a
half of revenue against their better judgment—what would
be the situation of succeeding Governments ?—( Opposi.
tion cheers.) To give the Government time to coniider
_ _

if the probable deficiency could be supplied, he (Mr.
Goulburn) brought forward his proposition. The Com-
mittee had merely recommended that so soon as the state
of the public revenue would permit the risking of a large
branch of the revenue, the measure should be adopted,
commencing with a reduction to twopence. The loss would
be greater on the twopence than on the penny postage—
( Hear, hear)—therefore it was clear they did not mean
that the twopenny postage should be immediately intro-
duced. lie was determined to record his own opinion,
that the revenue could not at present bear the proposed
change, and he trusted that the country would soon recover
its sense of prudence, and discover the inexpediency of so
hasty and perilous an experiment; at all events, he should
ease his own conscience and discharge his own duty.—
(Opposition cheers.) The Right lion. Gentleman then
moved his Resolutions as follow:

That it appears from the Finance Accounts of the
United Kingdom laid upon the Table of this House, that
the execs.; of Expenditure over Income for the year 1837
was 655,760/., aLd for the scar 1838, 345,2271.
That fr:lm a statement submitted to this House by th-
Chancellor of the Exchequer, the excess of expendi-
ture over income, fur the year ending the sth of April,
1840, i 3 estimated at not less than 860.0001., making a
total excesi of expenditure over income in the three years
en lint* the sth day of April, 1840, of not less than
1,860,987/.

That the Select Committee appointed, " to inquire into
the present rates and mode of charging postage, with a
vie w to such a reduction thereof as may be made without
injury to the revenue," reported to this House on the 13th
day of August, 1838, as follows:
" That your Committee are of opinion that, so soon as the
state of the public revenue will admit of the risking a
larger temporary reduction, it will be expedient to subject
all inland letters to an uniform rate of one penny per half
ounce, increasing at the rate of one penny for each addi-
tional half ounce."
That the net revenue of the Post-office, for the year
ending the sth day of January, 1839, amounted to
1,655,993/. 15s. 3d.
That it is The opinion of this House, that with a defi-
ciency of revenue during the three years ending on the
sth day of April, 1840, of not less than 1,860,9871. it is
not expedient to adept any measure for reducing the rates
of postage on inland letters to au uniform rate of one
penny (:hereby incurring the risk of great present loss to
the revenue), at a period of the Session so advanced, that
it is scarcely possible to give to the details of such a mea-
sure, and to the important fin:x.cial considerations connec-
ted with it, that deliberate attention which they ought to
receive from Parliament.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said

he was surprised to find that the Right Hon. Gentleman
rested his opp:;sition to the measure on the single ground

of postponement, doubtless feeling that the measure, was
likely to give content to the great mass of the people out
of doors, and to win the support of many Meminrs in that
House.—( Cheers. ) The Right Hon. Baronet ( Sir R.
Peel), in his declaration of hostility, had not spoken of
the lateness of the Session, but bad declared that there
were two contingencies only in which he would consent to
the measure—the existence of a surplus revenue equal to
the revenue risked—or the contemporaneous imposition of