The Sun.
London, England, 1806-06-13 00:00:00

TUESDAY, MAY'6-.-SzvE'uYit DAY.

Mr. Tao rz ER, reexamined.—lie stated that Lord Me'.
ville never attended.to ordinary business of receipt and pay-
ments It was all done by the Paymaster. For ...a extra-
ordinary ease the witness reported to Lord Melville, who al-
ways attended to such cases. He did not to: piled ever have
Mg paid any sums or money .personally
except small -sums of-tot. except once he paid' him his safa..
ry. The bond which he stated yesterday as given for tho
4,G001. in the early part of the transactions between the wit..
ness and Lord Melville, was afterwards cancelled. He'll/. •
ceived Money on account of 'Lord Melville to more t':ian that
amount, and therefore 'he did not think it right. to keep the
.bond. When . Lord Mel vile dire-der! the ;fitness to- pay
money -for him; • he did not specify out of what fund the
Money. tvas- to be taken, When Lord Melville. wanted
.money he would probably enter into an eXplaliation of rho:...
,nies which he expected to receive, and request the witness to
accommodate'lltini winch-he did, and placed it •to his account
current!! The Ntinagers examined as to'whortior
vine had not specifically•directed.somoadv-ances to he placed
to the Chest account; but the witness declared he never re-
ceived any such specific directions. The advance of
for the purchase of 2,0e01a F.at India Stock,, was placed -to
the account current, and-Was paid by the receipts on the other
-side at the-account. No specific suns, as he recuileeted, being
appropriated tor th it particular payment-.. The pUbhCllll.l..
hey he considered sate in the hands of Contra as its tia.l
hands of the Bank,..pf Giit taunt,
Q. What was your fortune, independently of your salary, •
at tile time you wereappuilued Paymaster P—A. Not large.-,
nut perhaps exceeding• one or two thousand poniu4s.
Have you had any great accumulation of fortune by
any • event indepnidently of your situation as Paymaster j .-
‘A. I have had c'Aisulerableacquisitiosis—considerable in pro.
portion to my fortune, though nut so perhaps in the eyes of
some people. I suppose somewhere betwixt six and seven
-thousand pounds. I also had an acquisition by marriv; of
about three thousand pounds.

Q. Are ycitt in possession of landed property ?—A. I
ant.

Q. Was. Lord. Melville acquained that you had became 3
tri.m of landed property in Scotland I presume he was
7-for though it'ts.not a great purchase, it is not s nrsigniti.
cant as to escapt,his Lordship's notice.
Q. What do you conceive to be the.amount of your pro. •
perry at tins monicnt I had occasion about a year agel
to make a statement of my property : at that time I valued it.
ar about Si or 52.0031. but it waS so invested as not to pro.
duce me an income of inure than ',loot per annum.
Q. Whether drafts upon the Bahl: 'Of England are as
valuable in your estimation as drafts upon Coutts's house?-...
A. It depends upon who makes the drafts, I take it,
He said he held a quantity of ,Navy bills when they fell to
a discOuni, and he burrowed money to pay official demands.
as he conceived it' immaterial out of what pocket,he
them. He again ru-stated, that when Lord Melville wem.ol4'
of ollice all the iralances due upon the- account f'.urrentand
upon the Chest account were The manger of pay..
ment lie Stated as follows : -Having a power of attorney to
sell and dkp,se of all his Lordship's-stuck,' be directed then.
to be sold, eind they•were either sold, or the amount of the
price current of the day- allowed tothe cred:t 'ot his account
atCatt:;'s ; Zo,oool. was p.,id into'Couttes by Spiottt
either or Mei vale Another • sir:ll- of '
30, was paid either into his hands or to In* c.te.iit of
Lord.. Melville, by Mr., Sprott. This sum was the prod ~02
of the, sale of the East India stock tie' mentioned yesterd.iy,
by which 20,00 d, ors paid, the debt existing- upon that
stock, and the remainder went to the credit OT Lord Meiviiiees
'account current with tire witness ; and stunner sum ivas paid
some other way of:about 13,00 e I. He said that he had lost a:l
recollection of the payment to the House Lit Ramsay and cu..;
but from the document snewn hiitn yesterday ne had no doubt:
he made it, and certainly it was nut withoUt the directions of
Lord Melville. ,

Q. Whether Lord Nlelville did not know that payments
.weie made out of the public money ? --Question ikjected to
by Defendant's. Coun'sel and over-ruled. .
Q. Whether you received Iny directions from. Lord Mel.
vilte, 'which/ led 'you to know that Lord Nlelville meant
the public money' ? ' That - Lord Melville knew it wa, ttio
rublie money .whielt was so to iae paid I—A. I cannot
swear sd. ' „

it is asked as to the Chost account ?—A . I certainly
cannot swear so. . •

Q. Did 'Lord Melville, when he eithetrequested or requir.
ed moneyto be advanced by you to him, ever ask,you in ally
one instance whether your own private funds would suppiy
that source ?—A. I do not recalled that his Lordship ever dio,
As to inquiring into the state of my own private funds, I do
nut think Lord Melville ever did,
Q. Did he ever in-quire of you,, whether, in making suelt
advances, you were ttenclung_upon public balances --A. tint
ever did. •
Were any objeetions ever made by Lorci•Melvilie in de,.
livering'the 'Chek account to him Lord Melville I.evvr
examined toy account§ in my presence so. Minutely as to en.
able him to make any ohjeetion, •
Documents were rhea put into the witness'shands, frOirs
which he stated the balances in his hands at the diffeleht
periods during his rayntastership.
With respect to ,the application of money drawn and car,
tied to the Chest account; the witness was. tot illy ignorant,
• except as to the sum of +3,6001, Which,hetuad since leartaed
was advanced to the hoitse of Boyd and Dehlietd: 'As to rho
othersurns, he had no knowledge whatever of the application
of them. The Loyalty Loan-money was carried to the Chest
account, but the produce of the dividends was carried to turn
credit of Lord Melville's account current:
EXAMINED VI THE LORDS.--The witness ktated, that.
although the accounts Were always signed by Lord
When he presented' them, yet his lordship never examined
any of the items, or scarce lo ;ked at t hem '; it he had it would
have appeared upon the ce or them, that the Loyalty
money was advanced' from the. Chest account (i.
money): hut he could never prevail on the Defendant W.,
dive any attention to his private account: '; Tire Chest sc...
count he described as a mere name for an account . which .ho
found it necessary-mense with. Lord Melville. J t was rho
„account of such adVances the application of which he knew
*nothing of. The first item of fi, as he had before stated, wept
the io,obol. which on his coming into office Lord Melville
told him, he should account for. There were other itemt irs
this account before the Loyalty Loan money', was tranferra
to it, but not many. He was again examined as to the put..
chase of the 14,0001, East India Stock, and gave the'sirtria
account of the transaction, namely, that having proposed to.
Lord Melville to raise the money on the credit of the Stock tct
be purchased, and finding that not to be done, he advanced
public money for that purpose to Mr. Lind, without the
knowledge of Lord Melville but led him to believe that the
purchase monay'was furnished by Mr. Lind, in whose name
the Stock stood. Being examined as to the Release ceourine
ing a clause for the destruetion of all vouchers and accounts,
he stated as follows.: The necessity originated in my wish
to have all my affairs settled with Lord Melville, as I alwayt
apprehended, aed I hum! May be allowed to say so, thin hit
Lordship was not careful in preSerVing his papers or account§
so as to be satisfactory to his heirs or successors ; and thes
there might be no difficulty or argument about shewing th it
a final settlement had been' made, either to his Lordship't
heirs or nay own, I was anxious that a release sh,:uld, pass,
by which it only became necessary that one voucher
,shotll4
be preserved.- I had proposed it some, time before it wa4
carried into execution, and my mind became every cloy still.
more impres/ed,
wit.' the necessity of bovine this executed
and in some conversation with his L'ordship I may have pro-
posed it again, and 10d hint I would forward releases for his
:Lordship, tope signedin St:010111I, it jie wOFI4 gi vg me leave,
But this l state more from knowing what must have 'oeelt
the case, than fromany actual recolleetiohof the time or plat=e
1, herr sucb c.;'.e,,e,sation passed. I then applied 10 mi
Solicitor in London, to draw out 4 release for that purpose
and as he was my intimate friend and counsellor as welt a§
Solicitor, he rot:ceded very. much from his own Itnotv.P44
of iny.situation and connexion with Lord Melville indrawin4
itN that rat e, The 4r4s; 19 pc? .i 1 qmo

been brought to my reeollealon by the lion. Managers, who
have possessed themselves oi' that draft, otherwise I Ilad for-
got the circumstance. But I find that I had seen that dr:Tft
by several-words being written upon it in inyown hand writ-
ing. It was afterwards brought to Me by Mr. Sp6ttiswode,
fairly copied out, and to the best of toy recolle4ion forwarel-
ed by me to his Lordship ha Scotland. antlbe.returned it to
Me. by -which the transaction was finai v
,cloAed •
Q, Was any person on the part of Lora Melville present at'
the composing of that deed in London ?—A There was not,
The witnesshaving stated that the release wasedrawit by,
Mr. John Spottiswode, of Sackville-street, hisfriend, and an
eminent Solicitor, was asked, Whether it ansists with your -
knowledge,- OM the release was drawn by Mr..Spptriswode
according to his • own professional 'knowledge. as to woe
would be the right form of such a. releasei- or whether any
diredions were given by y.ot•as to aily,clause that should be
insetted I.—A. I gave no specific directions at. to
,that clause,'
but we had a conversation upon it.' lam • sure must have
proceeded from his advice. .He then added, that Lord Mel-
ville had no concern whatever in framing that clause, but he
Signed the release and returned it tia London. •
-Q. You have stated that it would appear from-the Chest -
account and the account current, that, the public money .had
been applied : and you have also stated, that when you
sented the accounts to Lord 'Melville he did not examine'
them in your presenee--did youtever call the atteltionof Lord
Melville to-the items of the account so delivered, as items
that Would shew that lie applied the public money to private
use and benefit ? A. I do_ not recollect that, I ever did,
made any observation of that nature to his Lordship,
Q. Then are we to under Stand, that you, being. Paymaster
of Lord- Melville, and yourself apprised-that you were ap-
plying public money for private purposes, suffered- Lord
Melville to take those accounts into his possession without
suggesting to him that such matter would appear from the
examination of the accounts?—A, AS Lord. Melville never
communicated to me the application which he meant-to make .
of those SUMS, .1 did not think inyell at liberty to makj any..
observation to his Lordship upon the transaction.,
Being questioned whether Lord. Melville had interrogated'
birn asqty the expenCe of building his house near-. Edinbur.kij
He replied, The expellee ..of building this ,house is not 1A
great as your Lordships may have heard. Not so great-as
to induce Lord
:Melville 'te 4Sk ine any questionS upon.that
subjed. : The.'Sub-Accomptants, he.said, hembelieved, height
derivesome small advantage from the public money ; but he
was hot at all acquainted with them... I can speak to no-
thing-but my owintransaaions. . - •
(This ended the examination of Mr.. Trotter.)
Next was proved a Memorial of Lord Melville, and an
Order of Council rounded upon it,for new regulating:the Na.
vy Pay-. 04-0. The reguleti, ns were slay put in.
Mr. Robert Trotter was call-A.—He said he was brother
to Aleseander Trotter, and a Writer to- the Signet in
.5c0t.....
land. Looking at some papers put into his hand, he said, in
the year 1787 he received disectioit Irons his .brother, Mf."
Alexander Trotter, to pay money on account of the Noble'
Defendant into the house of Sir W, Forbes and_ Co. and
Mansfield and Co, •
Q 7" Did you pay the sums into the hands of those per-
sons. and what ,were the.. sums '—A . 3,3741. to. Messrs.
Mansfield, Ramsay and Co. and z 00l to Sir'W b• ,o . W. or es
and Co.

Q4' What is the date of those payments P=A.. 'July 23,
r 787. •
Q , Did the witness make any payments in 1789 ?—A.
2,0601-;,to Sir .W..Forhes, and. 3,0001. to Mansfield and Ca.
on actrount of the ,Noble Defendant,
.by the dircatons of his.
brother.
Sir'W..Porbes stated he was a Banker in Edinburgh. and
that Lord Melville kept an account with hint, and does still.
Q. Was that account _in' 1787 against the Nnble Dcfen-,
dant ?' —A It was. He then stated that it was the practice
of their House to charge interest on, sums overdrawit by,thri r
customers, and he had no doubt but, that Lord' Melvii le was
co charged. It was alsd their practice to send their ac-
counts annually to their customers, and,Lord. Melville's was
130 elOttilt sent.,,,.
Q, Was any objeaion ever made by Lord. Melville to the
Stun of z,oool. being charged as more than received on hiS
account Not that 1 ever knew
,of at* I believe he.
Made none.. ,
Q". Was any-lobjeaion ever taken as to the second t,c361)1.
178) •No, not to any 4nortilge. • .
• il‘d.r. lames Mansfield, Banker, at Edinburgh, ,vas called
to prove the payment of the sums in 17S1 and 1189, paid into
thr•honse -by Mt. Robert Trotter ; but., not •being able to
prove the entries by the proper Clerks, the evidence was not
....•
admittet:.
Q. Do you know of your own personal knowledge that
there-was an advance on flit:Amuse of Cqutts and Co!. to the.
house of Mansfield, Ramsay, aced Ca. of ii,0a,71. ,vithotit'
referring to. any. paper I . se.col legit perfectly' well Al r.
Robert l'rotter bein4 in London and writing 1611S' to draw
upon him for a certain, sum of Money, which we 'did draw,..
payable to Cuutts anti Co. and aniouaated at dilferent `bites ,
to .A5,40,a1.
Mr.--Robert-Trotter being, called in again. said he perfealy
. recollected having given diretiions to the house of Mansfield
and' Co. to draw for to,ociOl. anti 5000.1.
Q. Upon whose accoulit was that. moncy,paid by the house
of Courts and Co. ? —A. •My brcrher Alexander's account.

THURSDAY, MAY 8.
Mr. Robert Trotter beinOtiewn an- account, said, he had
itc ißed iniefest oh 25,00 a. paid-by him to Mansfield's house,
on the behalf of his brotner A. Trotter

'-111r. Edward' A ntrobus pnaduced,a 'copy of Lord-Melville's
account with Coucts!s house. Ansi the entries respettinkthe
purtha,e of -Loyalty Loan, ddia Stock, were referred, to, '
Mr. Coutts.V-ratterprovedit sum s_ol, lent by the.
}souse to-Lord Melville, tot which they had the Security of
hiti places in Scotland, viz. Kee jeer ut the SigtiCf,lnil of the
Frivy Seal.
4r.•llraucis Lind and- Mr. M.)nta.7ue Lind were examined
as to the purchase of tite ts,sool. lndil Stock, And their -eyi-
dence c9rrohorated the evidence already .gi,ven, that it Was '
held hy,Alr Lind in trust t,r Mr: Trotter,. and he did not
know it was for Lord NielVilte • ! •
I\l•irrk Sprot was then called in. stated that he had ad-
iranced sz,oool m
.Consequerke "of 'stock put into.his hands.
PepAo.it-to Mr., Trotter,- (This was the tundout of .
thechdefences were paid*-When Lord Melville went out
office). He.'added, that lteha&liad large dealings..ivith.
Tritrer,'antlfiad bought Government securities tot to a
Jiro ametnit. -• 7•• , . , •
Cross-examined. —Had you ever any pecuniary transactions, ,
whir Lard'Melvillein . „
fQ. You- say .ynit had various money transactions Willi Mr.
Trotter, lending money and borrowing money, whether these
money transattions with Mr. Alex. 'flutter we're all en-
tirely; upon Mr.,Trotters ;own account?—A. His own'ae-
count. ,
. .
.:Q. Have you any knowledge or belief that any other per.
6mi:whatever
.was t:oncerttedju this transaction ? Nine,
Q. Whether you had any knowledge 'ai the iiirir'•or these,
transactions, that' the- money advanced ch to you at' litee'elit
times by Mr. Alex. trotter was public mori,!y NOne.
mighr surmise and conjecture; a he was Paymaster of the
Navy; but I had no knowledge ot tt 'He added, that know-
ing the'-opulence and credit :of,. Ali. Trotter's'. raltlditS and
'connexions„ he had no doubt or his 'personal credit. •:.
Mr. Joseph Kaye, Solicittir fur the,Nlanagers, produced an
account which. stated that the profits made to Lord Melville
by-the use of the public inoney amounted-to tz,Bool.

• FRIDAY, Ms-Y 9.
Auer Some interesting documentary evidence, Mr: Tho.
tvilson was called-in. He proved; that• the% account of 'the
balltices m the'hands of the Treasurer of the Navy was fur-
pitied by him from documents in his Office. - He staled,..
that he aged as the confidential friend and agent el Mr.Trol
ter, andthat, in the absence of the latter he drew the Pubp
lie Money either from Coutts's or the Bank, and that lie was
aIW4S furnished by Mr. Trotter with blank cheques for that.
purpose. He stated, that by the direCtion of Lord Melville,
he once drevv•4o,ocol. of the Public. Money, and he coin-'
putiicated the transaction to Mr. Trotter, who was then in
Scotland. He had frequently been employed by. Mr. Trot-
ter to lay out large sums of tne publit- money for Mr. Trot.
- ter's privateemolutrient, anti the Excheizfuer fee-money he laid
out for his own private advantage ; but he 1.141 not think he
made so muiell as 3 01. a year of it. Oh cross-examination
be said, -t; of which he had abovet spoken, was
the sauce s• na or money which was afterwattls the siibjeet of
'public ingtntjr in the House of Commons. .He did riot be-
lieve that Lord Nlelville'llad any lknowledge of those trans-
attions whicli he conducted for Mr. Tiotter's 'emoihment.
Mr. George Sunfield 'pioduced an account of balanceS*.in
the hands. of Sub-Accountants. He stated, that he kept
4'll sh atCotitts's by the desire of Mr. Trotter, and that he did
it,reludan, . •
'-The.ltight Hon. George Tierney was called to state the'
113,aorwr in winch lie altered the mode of keeping accounts
flu.rie tit Treasurership ; whicla was, instead or sending
Urge draft eacia morning to the ktank tor each Sub-Account-
ant, by opening arfaecount there for each Sub-Accountant,
and 'sendi. g him a credit every morning for tile sum-cal‘u-,
lated likely to be wanted tor the day. -
.Mr. fames Gibson, a Writer to the Signet in Scotland,
wks called ti) pr-we, that the clause for the destruction of
*touchers ilt tile rele.ise, was au unusual eiause'm in-
It:laments in &cotidna.