The Sun.
London, England, 1837-02-03 00:00:00

PLURALITIES.-LOCAL COURTS.

The NOBLE Loan next gave notice of his intention to
bring forward two measures ; the first abolishing, as far
as practicable, the evil of non-residence of the clergy, and
the holding of pluralities, the other for the establishment of
Courts of local jurisdiction. Ha should not press either mea-
sure if those of his Majesty's Ministers were as beneficial, or
nearly so, as his own. He had made no change in the
Bills which were before introduced, except a few verbal altera-
tions. The reason he had made no alteration whatever was
this, that a great difference of opinion existed as to whether
the measure ought to pass at all or not ; but if the measure
were to pass, he had understood the House to have given an
opinion that it was in the form in which he wanted to intro-
duce it, that it was expedient it should pass —( Hear,
hear)—because the House had gone into a Committee
on the Bill, bad thoroughly discussed all its details in that
Committee ; and it was only in its last stage that it had been
rejected—on the third reading. At that time the difference
of opinion was not great, one half thinking it ought to pass,
and the other half that it ought not ; and he believed it had only
been thrown out by a majority of one or two. He hoped,
however, the balance would now be turned the other way, and
he had thought it necessary to adhere to the former details, as
having received the sanction of their Lordships.
The Earl of SHAFTE SBU ay moved the adjournment of
the House.

NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OP IRELAND.
Lord CLONCURRY said that before the House adjourned,
he wished to say a few words in reference to what had been
touched upon the evening before last during the debate upon
the Address. In the course of that debate, allusions were made
to Ireland, particularly to an Association that had been formed,
in that country. No man more lamented than he did the ne-
cessity for the formation of that Association, and no man more
lamented than he, that it should be looked upon by any Noble
Lords in that House as an illegal Association. He was speaking
candidly and justly when he thought it ought to be called the
association for the vindication of Ireland, for repelling
and counteracting the most improper feelings towards that
country. He had no other object or wish but for the good of
that country if possible, conjointly with its Sister country, the
most happy and splendid empire in the world. It was im-
possible that union, affection, or mutual interest could be
maintained, if persons were allowed to libel an honest and
generous people, who wore only struggling for those rights
which had been withheld from them. (Great cheering.)
The National Association, like other public bodies occasion.
ally started long before, had for its object the procuring justice
for Ireland—its great object was to get rid of one of the
greatest misfortunes which destitution had brought on—the
combination of the industrious classes in Ireland.—( Hear.)
They had in all parts of the country, as far as he understood,
instituted a class of persons to preserve the peace—( A laugh
from the Tory Lords)—to give good advice to the people ;
and if peace were not preserved, to give information to the
Deal authorities. He would be very glad if he could laugh
with the Noble Lords opposite—( Hear, hear)—but when
he thought on the subject of Ireland, it was no laughing
matter, and it might become very much the contrary if respect
were not paid to their just claims.—( Hear, hear.) That As-
sociation would, he was quite convinced, have dissolved them-
selves, if his Majesty's pleasure had been signified to
them. But there was another Association to which he
begged leave to call attention, which lately held a numerous
and very illegal meeting in Dublin, for the self-evident pur-
pose of causing divisions amongst the people, if not causing
disturbance and injury. That Association had been called by a
certain number of Peers, and they call themselves a meet-
ing of Protestants. It took place in the Mansion-house of
Dublin, and their Lordships might imagine what kind of a
gathering was expected, when the Lord Mayor of Dub-
lin—a Corporation which felt as strongly as all the
other Corporations of Ireland did—that Lord Mayor,
who happened to be a gentleman in carriage and in manners,
refused to preside at the meeting, though he allowed the
meeting to be held in a room attached to the Mansion-house.
That meeting, as he undeistood, had given demonstration of
the most violent Orangeism—Orange colours and flags were
carried about, and it was even contemplated to wait on the
King's Representative in a tumultuous manner, if it were
not suppesed that another body of the people were dot strong
for these soi disant Protestants of Ireland. But they had
done one good—the Protestant Noblemen proprietors and
Commoners of Ireland had come forward to protest against
this indecorous meeting. There was the Noble Duke of
Leinster, who could not be supposed to wish that his country
should be put into a state of ferment, nor did he wish to injure
any man—he called upon his fellow Peers to protest and remon-
strate against the violent proceedings, and he was answered
by 40 or 44 Peers. There were many noblemen and gentle-
men of great respectability on the other side, but he thought
they were merely the tools of others. He understood that
they had put down the names of Peers of thirteen or fourtren
years of age, merely for the purpose of swelling the numbers,
and many who used to be violent on the other side had joined
them from mere facility.—( Hear.) The Government of
Ireland had simply done justice, and therefore it was they
were spoken disrespectfully of, and abused in the grossest
language by those who had only lived by denying justice to Ire-
land, and on the spoils of bad Government.—(Flear, hear.)
He was ashamed to allow his feelings to run away
with him, but lie did not trouble their Lordships often,
for he was not frequently in this country ; and he would ask
them for the sake of mankind—he would entreat the House of
Lords to do that which was right—the people of Ireland
asked for no more ; but if it was thought that Ireland
was to be reconquered by the sword, there never was a
more mistaken idea. If such an attempt were made,
e hear.) The
many of the countries of Europe, and certainly America,
would speed to the relief of the oppressed.—( H' ear hear.)
He thought it to be his duty to warn theirf Lordships
couldagai be keptnstletting
withinloose properalieenthoiounsndssoLdi(erHar, y ;nr they never
people had hitherto been rendered almost mad by bad Govern-
recut, and the want of education.—( Hear, hear.) That had
been withheld from them by the most unfair and unjustifiable
means. Let them give the Irish people employment—let
them give them an adequate interest in the management of their
own concerns—he meant an ample and full measure of Cor-
porate Reform, such as had been extended to Scotland and
England. (Loud cheers.) Let them give them an equi-
table and fair system of Poor Laws, or rather a labour-
rate, for what was wanted in Ireland was, that the landed
proprietors, many of whom were absentees overwhelmed
with debts and difficulties, should be compelled to
maintain their own properties by imposing a labour-rate upon
them. Let them give the people of Ireland employment, and
thereby render them a source of wealth to the empire at large,
and which would be the means of rendering England indepen-
dent of foreign countries for the necessaries of life. He
thanked their Lordships for the attention with which they had
heard him.

.....
Lord BROUG HAM wished his Noble Friend (Cloncurry)
an opportunity of explaining an expression in his speech. He
alluded to where he said that the present was the first Go-
vernment that had endeavoured to do justice to Ireland.—
( Hear.) Now it would be recollected by the Noble Baron
that Lords Wellesley and Anglesey had not long since held the

reins of Government in that country, and lie was sure he
would rejoice in the opportunity of stating that in his place,
which he fully expressed in a letter lately seen by him (Lord
Brougham), namely, a full acknowledgment of the great
anxiety of the Noble Lords to whom he alluded to do
justice to Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) .Ho thought an expla-
nation due to the Noble Lords—due to his Noble
Friend then at the head of his Majesty's Councils, Earl Grey.
To the Noble Lord who then held the office of Chief Secre-
tary for the Home Department, ( Lord Melbourne) and to
those who held the office of Chief Secretary in Ireland, as well
as to himself, who, at the time, held a place of high trust
as a servant of his Majesty. He was sure his Noble Friend
( Baron Cloncurry), would be glad of the opportunity
of doing justice to those of whom he spoke. Perhaps the
matter might be considered trilling ; yet it would be well to
correct any apparent errors, and not to allow any evil effects
to follow.
Lord C L 0 NC IT RR Y said that if there was one man whom
he more admired than another for the Governor of Ireland, it
was the Marquis of Anglesey.—(Hear, hear, and cheers.)
Nu man could see more clearly what was necessary to
be done for Ireland—( Hear, hear,)—nor be more disposed
to put that in execution than his Lordship, but he was unfor-
tunately counteracted in his efforts. It was impossible for
'trim to govern Ireland as he would have done, when he
received counter orders from his own Secretary in the
Government at home.—( Hear, hear.) He believed that the
Duke of Northumberland, who was one of the intermediate
governors at that time, and who differed i❑ politics both
from Lord Anglesey and Lord Wellesley, had the greatest
anxiety to do his duty, and to administer a proper government
in Ireland. As to Lord Wellesley he had always looked
upon him as one of the first men of his age. But he was sure
that Noble Lord would feel that he was counteracted in
every measure that he himself endeavoured to prepare for the
good of that country.—( Cheers, and Hear, hear.) In saying
what ho did in justice to the present Government of Ireland)
he should be sorry to detract from one of the excellent names
just mentioned by his Noble Friend; but there certaihly never
had been any thing like a uniformity of intention arid determi-
nation to promote the ends of justice, and administer strict im-
partiality to Ireland until Lord Melbourne came into office.—
( Cheers. )
The House then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, FEnRU4RY 2.
The SPEAKER took the Chair at a few minutes before four
o'clock.

Mr. Campbell, from the India House, presented papers.
Mr. HousTos, the new member for Itenfrewshire, in the
room of Sir M. S. Stewart, deceased, took the oaths and
his seat.