The Sun.
London, England, 1808-03-30 00:00:00

IMPERIAL ,P4RLIAMENI.

HOUSE OF PEERS.
TUESDAY, MARCH 29..
ORDERS IN COUNCIL.

Lord HOLLAAD, in pursuance of his notice,
rose and moved the Order on this s,ubjeEt, after
which his 'Lordship entered at considerable length
into the whole of the conduct of Ministers. towards
America, which he censured With great severity.
Having 'noticed the injury which had resulted in a
commercial point of view to America, and to this
Country, trona the operation of the,Orders in Coun-
'cil, his Lordship observed, that he deprecated, in a
political point of view, the Mischief which must be
produced by a perseverance in the present destruaive
system, the tendency of which obviously would be
to turn the' industry, the interests, and the habits of
the democracy of the United States in favour of
France. After the battle of Austerlitz, he saw, with
the deepest regret, .that the aggressions of France
could not be resisted with any effea ; he looked,
therefore, with more anxiety than ever to the situ-
ation of America, from the progressive exertions,
independence, and liberty of which, lie anticipated
with great satisfaaion something like a counterpoise,
in the New World, to the ambition Of Tuonaparte
in Europe. Surely it must .afford pleasure to their
Lordships to feel conscious that there existed :rare
than a hopeof establishing a retreat for freedom, in
which it might be seeore from the iron hand of des-
potisai. He was one of those -who indulged this
cheering prospect, until be obServecl• the attacks
which Great Britain had made on the United States.

This gratifying view,' however, was now reversed,
and nothing appeared but despondency and sorrow.
Looking at the map of the world, he perceived with
"delight, before these pernicous Orders were issued,
that Great Britain had been placed,- as it Were, to
link the Old and the. New World togetha.; but cut
out, at present, from the one by the success of
Buonaparte, why should she be the cause, by pni-
vocation and insult, of excluding herself from the
other ? These were awful times, and required, there-
fore, more than ordinary precaution and wisdom ;
but it could not be said that either' marked our pre-
sent Councils. In consequence of highly estimating
the value of our conneiition;with the New World,
under the circumstances which he already stated, he
rejoiced at the etuigratibn of the Portuguese Govern-
ment to the Brazils, for it must be clear, to all liberal
men in the world, that. the' greater the number of
independent States which could be ereeied in the
other hemisphere, the surer would be the re-esta-
blishment' of independence among the States of Eu-
rope. It was on this account only that he regarded
the emigration ot the Prince of Asturias as a benefit
to this Country, or at all likely to t)e adyautogeous
to the interests ,of the world. Lordship then

contended that' the present measure violated the law
of nations, and was ruinous to the commerce of this
Country. .In support, of this position his Lordship
,referred to the effea produced on neutrals, whose
minds must necessarily be alienated from us, and
disposed to favour the views of the enemy, in esta-
blishing what he termed the liberty of the seas, by
destroying our supremacy by SO, and the code on
which it was 'founded. In every respeed he thought
it a measure which ought to be abandoned, instead
of being obstinately persevered in. All the argu-,
meats which he heard in defence of those Orders
Were futile and untenable. If we went to war
with America, how could our West India Islands
be victualled under any eircomstances, putting
even the possibility of scarcity in Great Ethan)
out of the
,question ? It was really surprising,
that the- experience of the past did not prevent
Ministers from hazarding the existence of our
Colonies at the' proem moment* Their Lord-
ships must be aware that , he meant to allude
to the
.atteiript made shortly after the • United
States proclaimed their independence:: at that period
this Country prohibited the intrOduCtion of pro-
visions from Ainerica,to the Wesi Indies—in conse-
quence, ttimy thousvids of human beings perished
for want• of thud. This extravagant and inhuman,
conduct on that occasion ought to deter Government
from exposing the Colonies now to similar starva-
tion ; but neither policy; IA iSdain nor humanity,,
seemed to, have, an) conneolion wi ll heir measures.

The Noble Lord Concluded a long and argunienta-'
tive Speech' with. moving four Resolutions, winch,'
in faa; wt.ae an epitome of the: Noble Lord's
speech, On the first being read,
Lord WESTMORELAAD - said,' that he rose,
with some reltifiance to address their Lordships, not
that he felt any difficulty in replying to the speech
of the Nnble Lord Jost at dOwn, however
long and elovent, but beCautte• he ,had only to oiler.
such argument as they had heard over and over on
this subject. His.Lardship then entered into a chro-
nological view ;of the measures of the present and
last Administrations,' in the course of which his
Lordship displayed great accuracy, and on the
whole, interred, from a comparison of the cards
produced, that if America felt herself insulted; it
must be in consequence of the Orders issued by the
late Administration.
. Lord AtiCKL,IND vindicated the measures of
the }.ties Administration, on the old ground of for-

bearatce towards America. His Lordship likewise
observed, that though Buonaparie issued Decreescalculated to injure out Commerce, and also that of
Neutiais, .yet that he suspended the execution of
them until we, by the present Orders., had provok-
ed him to yetaliation'; we talked of 'retaliation, but
in fad we were substantially aggressor, on the rights
and independehce of Neutral Powers.
Lords DARNLEY and LaupeltbaLe. deprepted
the line pursued by the other side, whose invariable
rule was .to defend their own measures by censuring
those of their predecessors in office. If the conduct
of the late Ministers Was censurable, let it be con-
demned ; but surely it was no justification of bad
measures now that any 'preceding Ministers had
committed worse atits. It was asserted (said Lord
Lauderdale) that the Ethbargo was not laid on in
America in consequence of the late. Orders in
Council, because the account of their hating
segued could not have been received in :time to be
the ground of any such measure. It would ,he re-
collected, however, that, independently of any other
means of intelligence which America' Might have,
an 'Abstract of a material part of these -Orders.Was
published in the newspapers,sevet al days before they
came officially before. the

Lord MULGRAPE asserted, that the Orders in •
Cbuncil had'operated as much in the line of retalia-
tion as could be reasonably expeaed. They -had
distressed our enemies to the, extreme, and there
fore ought to be persisted in, mtil the enemy should
thew a disposition to moderation. From his own .
knowledge he could aver, that in France sugar and
other articles of colonial produce had lately increased
in price more than 400 per cent.
Lord GREA VILLE, in a speech of considera-
ble length, adverted to different observations that
had been made by Noble Lords opposite on some
of the aots of the Administration -to which- he
had lately the honour to helongc. He said; that the
Orders in Council afforded just cause of complaint
and resistance to every independent State, and chal-
lenged Ministers to shut a single case where the
French Decree had been, inforced , against subje6ts
of the United States of America. The embargo at
present laid On American • Ships, be was certain,
was adopted, as a measure calculated to save them
from becoming prizes to this Country, in the event
of hostilities being commenced. He again asserted,
that the American Government had bad ample time
to know the particulars of the Orders in Council be-
fore the embargo was laid.
Lord 114WKESEVRY, in the course of an able
and argumentative, speech, adduced the various
leading topics adverted to the discussion of the
American question. He contended, that .a principle
of conciliation, nay of concession, characterised
all the alts of his 'Majesty's present ,Governmeet,.
with regard to, the States. In the affair of the
Chesapeaite, the caudal of the British Officers was
instantaneously declared to have been unauthorized
by his Majesty's Government. With respe& to the,
I
Treaty, on which. so much had been said, he
contended that, in etlea, the American Oovcrnment
had refuSed to ratify it. They by no means closed
the door against negotiation ; they were only adverse
to negotiating on the basis of a Treaty concluded by
the British Ministerg, but which' was afterwards not
ratified by-the Government et the States—it Was on
that, principle they proceeded; Noble Lords eppo,
site were right in the idea, that no instruolions,
respe&ing the Orders in Council bad been sent to
the Envoy Extraordinary to the State; but to his
Majesty's regular and, stationary Representarive: in
America (Mr. Erskine), ample and commenSurate
-instructions had been, sent containing the determi-
• nation and -sentiments of the British Government
Upon the occasion ; these were in the true spirit of
conciliation, and he
.entertained: ttronee- hopes would
produce a corresponding elle& in the decision of the
American Governineet. Finally', he observed, it ,
was the intention of his Majesty's Ministers, to.
make every 'effort-for the preservation of peace and
amity with the United States, consistently with the
honour and the general interests of the Country.
-Lord HOLLAND said a tew words, When the (plea-
der) was put and negatived.- Contenta 53 ; Non-
Contents 20 Majority' • eB.--Adjounted at' One
o'Clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS. '
-TUESDAY, MARCH 29.
Committees were chosen by .ballot to'try anti'de
termitic the merits of the Petitions complaining of
the late.ElMions and ' Returns for the County of
Sussex and the 'Borough of -Christchura;. ' The
folloWing Gentlemen comßpse. the Committees:
SUSSEX COMMITTEE.
R. Bradshw, Esq.
.W. lel', Esq.
Lord V. Pollington. T.,Stanstifot th, Esq.
I. H. Loftus, k sq. I, Hudson, Esq.
Lurd Viscount Et rington, R. Long, q.
R. T. Stuart, Esq. C. Lemon, Esq.
Henry Bankes, Esq. : I Hon, W. Howa d.
Bogert 'Thornton,_ Esq,
Norrunecs—kight Hon. G. Tiernty and las. Gr4tam, Esq.
CU It IsTenuRCH'COMMITTEE..
lames Dawkins, Esq. Charles Jenkins )1, Esq.
lion. R. Curzon, Esq. Thomas Graham, Esq.
Henry Thornton, E,q. Thomas Whitwore, Esq.
•T. G. F.stcoutt, Esq. john Baker, Esq. , • • . '
'oho Fane. Esq. Cecil Forrester, Esq. • :r•
G‘t.,rge Pocock, Esq. ' I 13. turner, Esq.
Lord C. Somerset Manners.
Nominces—Hon. (as. Abercromby ana Rich. Portinan,Esq,

The He tise . was ordered to be called over o
Thursday, and the customary Ballot Orders fiked
for that day.
BLDDULPH gave notice, that 'he should to-
morrow submit a motion to the House, on the sub-
je& of the Constitution of the Finance Committee
sitting above stairs. His motion would relate to the
name of a 'Number of that Committee, who, since
his appointment upon it, had accepted:an oflice of
profit, that of Chairman of the Committee of Ways
and Means. He proposed in the event of the HottSe
being of opinion that the name of that Gentleman
ought not to stand upon the List elite committee,
to mole that the name of the Hon. JOHN WARD
be sgbstituted for it.

Mr, DusoAs, we' understood him, applied to
an Hon. Member (Sir Thomas 71'urton), who had
fixed a motion relative to the Poligar Question,
for Tuesday, the 12th of April, to deter that a short
time, on the ground of convenience aria accommo-
dation.

Sir THOMAS TURTOk had no objeßion to defer
his motion till after the
_Recess, 41114 only begged
drGentlerncn to read the Papers on the Jable, in
order that • they might come prepared to the dis.=
Cussion. On being called upon to fix some day,
the Hon. Baronet first named the 26th of ,April,
bnt after a few obervations from some Gentlemen
on the oppobite, side of the House, the motion was
fixed for did second Monday after the Recess, being
,the 2,.! of May.
GLneral STEWART gave notice, that he should to-
morrow make A motion for putting off the considera-
tion of the Donegal Petition,
Mr.' HUSK ISSON presented an Amount of all
Sums of Money which had been drawn by virtue
of Treasury. Warrants out of the funds in the hands
of the Receiver of Woods and Forests.---Ordered to
lie on the table.

'The ludittment Bill, and the Orders in Council
Indemnity Bill, were read a second time, and order-
ed to be committed to-rriorrow.
Chdered, on the motion of the LORD ADVOCATE
of SCOTLAND, that there be laid before the Howie
Copiei of.the Proceedings of the Commissioners
of Public Records, so far as the same relate to
Scotland.

Ordered, on the motion of Mr. HIIERISSOK) that
a ebilltllittee be appointed to prepare Estimates of
the Expeiwt. of the Pay and Cloathing of the Militia
of Great Britain and Ireland.
Mr. WHITBREAD put off his Motion for Papers
which stood for Friday, to Monday next.

On the motion' of the CHANCELLOR of the
Ex-
CUEQU,t it was ordered, that the further eqnsidera-
tint) of the Petitions 'against the Orders in Council,
and the hearing of Counsel upon the same, be put off
to Friday.'