The Sun.
London, England, 1839-02-09 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PA RL lAMIEN T.

ROUSE OF LORDS, FEB. 8.
The Duke of R UTLAND presented a petition
from Leiceater, praying for a remedy against the pre-
valence of tile injury to public morals from beer houses.

THE ANSWER TO THE ADDRESS.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said be had to ac-
quaint their Lordship's that her Majesty had been
attended with the Address voted to her by their Lord-
Alps' House, in reply to which her Majesty had been
pleased to return the following most gracious answer :
" My Lords, I thank your Lordships for your loyal
and Vutifiii Address. Relying entirely on your wisdom
and patriotism, I can have no greater satisfaction than
find;ng myself supported by your agreement and con-
ctrrenoe."

On the motion of Earl SHAFTESBURY, her Majesty's
answer was ordered to be placed on the Journals of the
house

SLAVERY.

Lord BROUGHAM said that seeing his Noble
Friend, the Secretary for the Colonies, in his he
Wished to ask whether any satisfactory inforrnatioa had
been received respecting an end to slavery in the
Mauritius.

Lord GLENIELG said that in answer to the ques-
tion of his Noble Friend, he had sent a dispatch to the
Governor of the Mauritius, requesting him to bring the
termination of the apprenticeship system before the
Council, with a view to have it put an end to by the
Ist of February. He had not yet had an answer
to that dispatch, but he had no doubt the Governor
would bring it before the Council without delay, and as
little doubt that the Council would accede to it. He
had further to add that if the Council did not accede
to it he had taken a measure to effect the term-
nation of the apprenticeships without the Council.
Lord BROUGHANI said that nothing could be
more satisfactory to him, nor, he was sure, to every
person who took an interest in this question. But he
wished to ask the Noble Lord whether the dispatch had
been sent cut so recently as that it was impossible now
to have had an answer, and also whether the measure
which the Noble Lord had adopted had been a con-
ditional one ?
Lord GLENELG said, that the dispatch
had been sent out in July last. The mea-
sure he alluded to was not until October ; and
that measure was simply passing an Order in
Council enabling the Governor by proclamation to
name a day for the termination of the apprenticeship
system, if necessary, without the consent of the Council.
RESIGNATION OF LORD GLENELG.

Lord GLEN ELG then spoke as follows :—My
Lords, I will take this opportunity of saying a few words
referrirg to myself personally. Although I have aaswered
the question put by my Noble Friend, with reference to a
period when I was responsible for the measures of the
Government, I am not at this moment any longer
ut possession of office.—(This announcement. ap-
peared to excite great sensation in the House.)
My Lords, I felt it my duty to tender my resig-
nation this day. I make this communication with
a full sense of the peculiar inconvenience of
such a step as that to which I have
at tl period, and with a consciousness that it may
create injurious suggestions, and cause great delay iuyour
Lordships' proceedings. But,my Lords, in a few monu nts
I can state the reasons which induced me to
come to this resolution. My Lords, a communication
was made to me on Tuesday morning utterly unforeseen,
and unexpected by me, which involved—it was a
communication from the Cabinet—which involved
alterations in the arragement of offices—utterly,
as I before s tid, unexpected on toy part, but
which it was said had been resolved upon.
My Lords, to that change of the, distribution of offices,
after the maturest consideration, I found it impossible
for me to accede ; consequently, I felt it my duty to
tender my resignation. My Lords, among my re-
grets on this subject, it is painful for me that this
event should take place at such a moment as this,
whrn Colonial subjects ins olve so much discussion
in Parliament. But., my Lords, I can fairly say,
that no other reason but the necessity under
which I felt myself could have led me to such
a step—in fact I found no other alternative be-
fore me hut to take that course ; at the same
tune, my Lords, upon any of those measures
connected with Colonial affairs, which naturally
cane under discussion, I shall, of course, be ever
in my place ready to support and defend those for which
I am responsible, and to give any information, and sup-
-1)1,), any explanations which it may be in my power to give.
Ihe Noble Lord spoke in a low tone of voice, and
added to his remote position from our gallery, rendered
him to us rather inaudible, but we believe we have given
nearly his exact words. At the close of his address
their Lordships seemed to be engaged in conversation
'spoil the important announcement.

CO RN-LAW S.
Lord BROUCUA.M. roan to present a petition of
very great importance ; and it was the fiat which had
issued from the body from which it came ; it was a peti-
tion from the new municipality of Birmingham—it
%yrs si red by the Mayor ifis behalf of the Corporation,
hut he had to apologise for the absence of the Corporate
Seal, which had not been affixed to it, only becausii it had
not yet been completed. In the absence of the Seal, tile
petition could only be considered formally, as the pe-
tition of the Mayor. It was upon the subject of
the Corn-laws, and prayed for a speedy and effectual
relief from the pressure of those laws, he ( Lord
Brougham) wished to state that he believed some worthy
and respected individuals were anxious for something,
which according to his recollection of what had formerly
taken place in the House of Commons, if the orders of
both Houses were the same in this respect—
he believed was not according to precedent,
namely, to be heard by Counsel and evidence
at the Bar against the Corn-laws. Now he was afraid
—he wished it were otherwise—that there was no in-
stance of Counsel being heard against a law
which had actually passed, though they had
betrit heard against a Bill while pending before Par-
liament. He believed, however, that there was this
exception, that counsel might be heard against a tax
the year after it had been imposed. The petition which
he had presented did not pray to be heard by counsel.
Ho would now give notice that on Friday—although
from the unavoidable absence of sortie Noble Friends
he might be induced to postpone it until Monday—
be would bring forward a motion on this subject, which
motion would be " That evidence be allowed to be pro-
duced at the bar against the Corn-laws, not by Counsel
and parties, but eviderace in the regular mode for the
satisfaction of their L'jrdships." This, he believed, would
be in accordance with the precedent of the Orders in
Council. ,He thought their Lordships would consider
that, upon this important subject, the sooner the atten-
tion of Parliament was called to it the better.—( Hear.)
Earl RIPON could not allow the first opportunity
that offered to pass without asking the indulgence of
their Lordships while he attempted to set himself right
in the House, and defend himself from what he consi-
dered an imputation. It was with respect to a subject
which agitated the public mind—he meant the Corn-laws.
He always understood that the present Cabinet had
been formed upon the principles with respect to those
laws laid down by the Noble Viscount in the debate upon
tho Address. With respect to that he knew nothing. He
had since, however, seen it stated that a very high autho-
rity had said that Lord Grey's Administration had
been formed upon the same principle ; end that the
Corn -law was considered an open question with that
Cabinet. lie did not say that that high authority bad
said so, but that it had been so stated. Whether
it was said or not, he felt himself bound to
'Mate, that, while he had the honour of belonging
to that Cabinet there existed no such understanding. It
was utterly impossible for him to suppose that Lord Grey's
Government was formed upon such principles because, in
1833, when a Noble Friend of his brought forward the
question, Lord Grey asked him (Earl Ripon) to oppose
the motion, and to prepare himself to answer the observa-
tions of his Noble Fricnd, and be did so because it
'was the duty of these who administered the Government
of the country to take the earliest opportunity of
giving a direct and unequivocal statement of their
"ritime;As upon a subject of such great importance.
Upon I.is honour, if he had the slightest suspicion that
there was any doubt whatever as to the principles upon
Govennnent was formed with respect to the
Corn-laws, he never would have made such a speech;
for he certainly at that time considered that he spoke the
,•entiments of the Government, and as a Government;
and if he had made such a speech as he did upon
that occasion, while there was even a doubt as to
the priteiples of the Government, he would have
been degrading himself and the Howe, and abusing the
confidence of the public. He knew that in that, as in all
Cabinets, there was a difference of opinion upon many
subjects, and amongst others upon the Corn-laws, but he
zolemly declared that he knew that upon that question
they would act as a Cabinet—a combined Cabinet upon the
question of the Corn- laws, and according to the speech he
then made. Ile felt it due to himself—he felt it due
to Lord Grey, and he also felt it due to those
not now belonging to the Cabinet—and he called upon
them to support him in the truth—to give a flat denial to
that which wes reported to have fallen from one high in of-
fice in the present Government.
Lord FITZ WILLIAM did not rise to answer any aceu-
sati°ft against himself, for every one knew that upan that
I,7,bjeet there was no accusation to be brought against him.
he question he believed was not whether Lord Grey's
i?overnment was formed on the principle of the Corn-law
both
the an open question,, but whether that farmed
prinei-le of her Majbsty's present Administration.
With k'
tlnhere respect to the opinions of Lord Grey's Goverantent
could be no doubt of the opinions of that Govern-
,lehTlt, because of the conduct of the Government on that
Ile begged to state that he was entrusted with a
:bZt hutner of petitions on important subjects,which he was
bisil/410to present to that House. He did not know whether
for ble 'Friend had been judicious in fixing so early a period
deciTee, discussion of that question—he was not quite
le „ u that point; but he would say that it would
la„vevetituall
y wren." from them by the people at
the petitions of a suffering, but neverthele.is a
noifo!t•
people, sufferings thriugh the infliction
cauireju.dicieus laws—he would say injudicious laws, be-
en he they had been enacted in ignorance of
likely rks tlwy knight pro,,nee, and 'which they were still
to produce. The Noble hoped that the might
b® allowed to read certain parts of the petition, he was

about to lay upon the table. The Noble Earl then
read certain extracts from the petition. He confessed
it was a matter of great regret to him to see the exagge-
rated statements that had been made on both sides of the
question. It appeared to him that on both sides
the statements were exaggerated—on the one side we
have exaggerated statements of the effects of the repeal
of the Corn-law, and on the other side exaggerated state-
ments of the state these laws have actually produced. That
these effects were mischievous—that they Were dangerous
to the future prosperity of the country, and that hitherto they
had been found mischievous he entertained no doubt, but he
did believe that the effect of these laws had been exagge-
rated by those who had felt them ; and he was convinced
that the fears and apprehensions of those who resisted their
repeal, were equally unfounded. Of course, on an oc-
casion
like the present, he would not enter into
the arguments upon the subject. It would be out of place
on the present occasion to do any thing more than to
express his opinions,: but he believed that when the
opinions of the manufacturing classes themselves
were examined into, and when their petitions were
before the House, and he trusted that their Lordships
would examine into them also, be had every reason to believe
that they would find that they would be perfectly satisfied
with much less than they were represented to claim, and per-
haps did claim, in some of the petitions which had been pre-
sented to their Lordships. They all knew that it was the
common course of mankind to be in the habit of asking
somewhat more than they expected, and therefore if
these petitions went to the full length of calling upon
their Lordships to abrogate all Corn-law and put
an end to every regulation, even for fiscal purposes
he apprehended they would not form a just estimate of
what were the views and expectations of the reasonable and
thinking portion of the petitioners. That there might be
among them large classes of people collected together,
many of them of sanguine temperaments and
extravagant views, there was no doubt but these
sanguine temperaments had probably given vent
to their feelings upon the subject ; but his conviction
was that if they acceded to the motion of which his Noble
and Learned Friend had given notice, and enter, as he
trusted they would into the whole question, by both
Houses giving the petitioners an opppertuuity of proving
their case, he was satisfied that they would discover a satis-
factory adjustment of the question, and they would find that
they would be able at least to satisfy a large portion of the just
expectations of the people on that subject ; but if they turned
a deaf car to the petitioners, then he did not think that it
was in the power of any man to answer for what the con-
sequences might be, if it should please l'rovidence again
to afflict this country with a harvest as deficient as that
which they bad just passed.—( Hear. ) lie trusted their
Lordships would approach the question with calmness and
consideration, and not to fester in their minds en opinion
which, upon examination, might turn out to be an un-
founded prejudice, but that they would listen to the
petitioners, and =Mow them that opportunity they
claimed of making out a case which they
believed would make such an impression upon their Lord-
ships and upon the other House of Parliament, as would
lead, if not to the entire repeal, at least to a better adjust-
ment of the present Corn-laws. The Noble Lord con.
eluded by presenting the petition, which was from
the parish of Pudsey, in the West Riding of Yorkshire.
Lord BR OUG HAM would not follow his Lordship in
the very able remarks he had made upon the subject, but
after having received a rebuke from the Noble Lord he
wished speak in extenuation, although after judgment had
been pronounced, for he was in the unfortunate situation of
a party punished—( Laughter)—who was allowed an op-
portunity of speaking afterwards in his own vindication.
He was hsppy to think that his Noble Friend would
be found with him, but he was sorry to find that
there was any difference upon the subject of time, for it was
only on the question of time that judgment or discretion
could be exercised. His Noble Friend seemed to think
that he had not acted very judiciously and that he had not
chosen the very best time. He ( Lord B. ) had had no choice ;
and he was now about to show that if he had said any-
thing in that house upon the question, for it must be ob-
served that he never alluded to what passed elsewhere
—( Hear, hear, and a laugh)—that was the fact, and who
ever stated otherwise stated an untruth.—( Hear, hear.)
He alluded to what passed out of doors, which it was his
duty to do, and if any one in the other House of Parlia-
ment, he that individual the highest authority there,
said that lie had done otherwise, such individual was mis-
informed by somebody having told him an untruth.—
( Hear, and laughter.) By the votes of the other
(louse, which were public. and which were even sold, so
that any person could know what they were, he observed
that a notice; of motion similar to the one he had given was
entered on those votes, and stood for the 19th of Fe-
bruary, and which was only a day later than that for
which his motion stood. Now, his opinion, and which he
had stated to the Birmingham gentlemen whom he saw in
November last, was that this was the fit course to take, and
he stated to them that he should, at an early period, make
this motion. And his opinion also ware that if there was
any evidence to be taken—that if there was one place
better than another to take that evidence in, it was
that House, where they were fettered by no rules
of evidence, but acted strictly on judicial evidence.
Now he greatly grieved his Noble Friend bad adopted
a different course upon another point which was of great
importance to himself. Ile had taken upon himself to
say, on behalf of their common clients, that it was not a
total repeal his clients wanted—their Lordships were
not to believe that was what they meant; they would be
content wit'a a great deal less. Whether that was dis-
cretion or not he would leave to the Noble Lord upon de-
liberate consideration: for his own part, when he was
at the Bar, he had never entered the Court, and
said that his client, although he claimed 1,0001.
admitted he never dreamt of getting more than 201,
( Hear. bear, and laughter.) He had never thought of
such a thing, but he ought to set their Lordships right.
His Noble Friend was totally mistaken; he had had commu-
nications, not with wild enthusiasts, or sanguine individuals,
but with some of the most temperate advocates of a Repeal
of the Corn-laws, with whom he had discussed the matter
over and over again, anti with some even from this very
town, that morning, who were neither enthusiastic nor im-
moderate in their expectations of what ought to be done
for their relief; but men more likely to know their own
minds--less likely to say they meant one thing when they said
another—less likely to say they meant a partial repeal when
they called for a total repeal, could not possibly be found;
and if he mentioned the name of Mr. Jamph Sturge, a
great corn factor for the last twenty-four years, he appre-
hended that the mention of that name to those who knew
that most respectable individual, would be sufficient to
satisfy him that any man more able to undertand a subject
to which he applied his very perspicacious mind, it would
be difficult to find. Other names of gentlemen he might
also mention highly qualified to judge of the question, with
whom he had also consulted. He, therefore, would not
join his Noble Friend in saying that the petitioners did not
desire an entire abolition ; and to show that this was a
practical opinion of theirs, he had been furnisfied with a
resolution which, if he had thought he would have been
called upon to have entered thus fully into the subject, he
should have read to their Lordships in the first instance.
The resolution came unanimously yesterday from the Dele-
gates on the Corn-laws, and when they came to him he
told them he would have nothing to do with taking away
what they called the protection of the farmer, if he was
also to take away what they called the protection
of the manufacturers and the shopkeepers. Upon
that they came to the resolution, unanimously, to remove
all restrictions on the importation of goods geuerally, and
of putting them precisely on the same footing as they desired
their Lordships to put the Corn-laws upon. He thought
if anything could be that was a proof that their views were
not limited to a partial, but to a total repeal, which in his
(the Noble and Learned Lord's) opinion was the more safe,
as it would be the more convenient as well as the more
judicious course.
Earl FIT ZWIL LIA M presented a petition from elec-
tors and others of the borough of Sheffield, which he said
was signed by thirteen thousand persons.
Lord BROUGHAM remarked that he could only at-
tribute it to the anxiety of the Noble Earl to bring the
petition early before their Lordships, or it would have been
signed by at least twice that number of petitioners.
The Earl of ABERDEEN observed that he found it
stipulated in the treaty entered into between this country
and Austria, that British vessels entering certain ports
were to be admitted on the same footing as Austrian ves-
sels. Now the ports referred to were riot under the do-
minion of Austria but of Turkey, and therefore be could
not understand how it was that there could be a stipulation
between Great Britain and Austria that such should be the
case, or how British Ministers could sanction any
such stipulation. At the time of the former
treaty, the navigation of the Danube was con-
sidered of very small importance. Having seen it put
forward that the free navigation of the Danube was a very
important addition to the treaty, he was anxious to know
what the explanation of the Noble Viscount on that sub-
ject was. _ _ -