The Sun.
London, England, 1837-12-06 00:00:00

THOMAS OSLER

SAINT PANCRAS, MIDDLESEX.—CONTRACTS.
,
O. OILMEN, LINEN-DRAPERS, AND PRINTERS.
THE DIRECTORS of the POOR of the
said PARISH will meet at St. Pancras Workhouse, on
Tuitstolly, the 26th day of December instant, at Ten o'Clock in
the forenoon, to receive TENDERS and CONTRACT for the
supply of ARTICLES in the above businesses.
Tenders, sealed and endorsed, to be sent in on or before
BdoxnAv, the 25th inst. Particulars may be had on application
at the Workhouse, or as under.
By Order of the Directors,
JOHN M‘GAHEY, Clerk.
1, Gordon-street, Gordon-square, December 5, 1837.

BY AUTHORITY.
THE KING'S REGULATIONS and OR-
DERS for the ARMY, which have been revised and
condensed in the Adjutant-General's Office, by the Special Com-
Oland of His Late Majesty, are now ready. Price 10s.
W. Clowes and Sons, 14, Charing-cross.

Nearly ready, post Bvo.
®N the STATE of EDUCATION in
~-,HOLL-
AND, as regards Schools for the Working Classes and the
poor.

By M. VICTOR COUSIN, Peer of France, &c.
Translated with Preliminary Observations on the necessity of
Legislative Measures to extend and improve Education among the
Working Classes in Great Britain.
By LEONARD HORNER, Esq., F.R.S.
John Murray, Albemarle-street.

THE IRISH POOR LAW.
Just published, Second Edition, price Is.
A BSTRACT of the FINAL REPORT of the
-411.. COMMISSIONERS of IRISH POOR INQUIRY, and
utthe LETTERS written thereon to MINISTERS.:
By Messrs. N. W. SENIOR and G. C. LEWIS.
With remarks on the above Report and Letters, and on the Mea-
sures proposed to Parliament for the Relief of the Irish Poor.
F. C. Westley, 162, Piccadilly.

This day was published,
A New Edition, in 3 Vols. small eve., price IN.
pASSAGES FROM THE lARY OF A
LATE PHYSICIAN.
By SAMUEL WARREN, F.R. S.
The Third Volume, price 65., may be had separately, to complete
former editions.
William Blackwood and Sons, Edinburgh ; and Thomas Cadell,
-Loudon.

HOLMES ON THE CURE OF CONSUMPTION.
This day was published,
A..TREATISE on the EMPLOYMNT of Cer-
tain METHODS in CONSUMPTION, ASTHMA, and
ether MALADIES.

By JOHN I'OCOCK HOLMES, M.R., C. S.L.
Late By
to the Hudson Bay Company, Author of " Popular
Observations on Diseases Incident to Females.
..,This work deszribes a new system of practice, which has been
;lasted with the greatest advantage in an important class of die-
t„tin.L. Its merits are proved by the purest and most indisputable
The"
Author may be' consulted at No. 27, 'Margaret-stroet, Re-
zbeT-street, between the'hours of Eleven and Two daily.
-rnuel Holdsworth, Publisher, Amen Corner, Paternoster-row,
eloth •
, price ss.

GERMAN WINES.
THOMAS and EDWARD WHITE, of No.
17, Mark-lane, continue to receive from their friends in
Germany, SPARKLING HOCK and MOSELLE, of the tines:
quality, and they deliver those new and Elegant Wines, in any part
of London, at tl6s. per dozen, NET CASH. T. and E. W. also
import various fine qualities of the STILL Rhine and Moselle Wines.

N.ll.—The trade supplied as before.
17, Mark-lane.

CHRISTMAS SUPPLIES.
IST. BETTS and CO. respectfully request their
s Friends not to postpone giving their Orders for the
ATENT BRANDY beyond the 20th instant, as the multipli-
city of Orders from that time to Christmas render it impossible for
them to regulate their deliveries with that punctuality which it has
ever been their anxious wish to observe. . .

COLONIAL DEPARTMENT.
Mr. G. F. YOUNG seeing the Right Hon. Baronet,
the Secretary for the Colonies in his place, would take
this opportunity of presenting a petition which re-
ferred to the Department under his care. The petition
came from Mr. Robert Montgomery Martin, a gentleman
known to the public by a History of the British Colo-
nies, a work which comprised much important and varied
information, and which entitled his opinion upon any sub-
ject relating to the colonies, to respect and consideration.
Mr. Martin complained in his petition of the system
pursued at present with respect to the management of the
colonies. He stated the importance of the colonies and
transmarine territories of Great Britain, and proceeded
to show the necessity of some well digested sys-
tem of government for them.—(Hear, hear, hear.)
He complained, that from the extent and variety of the
duties which devolved on the Colonial department, it was
impossible that it could be conducted by one individu.l ;
and he further stated how much more impossible it was
that the duties of that department could be effectually di-
charged while that individual was subject to be constantly
changed. He stated that in one year there were no less
than three Chief, and the same number of Under-Se-
cretaries for the Colonial department. The petitioner
stated also that there were in this country a number of
gentleman intimately versed with colonial affairs, whose ta-
lents he suggested might be made serviceable to the coun-
try in the formation of an administrative department for the
colonies. He (Mr. Young) could state some facts on this
subject which would excite the astonishment of Hon. Mem-
bers who were not acquainted with the subject. The colo-
nies under the superintendence of this department contained
territories to the extent of 1,750,000 square miles, with a
British population of 5,000,000, daily increasing ; the value
of the maritime commerce in these possessions was
3.5,000,000/. per annum, and the property, public and pri-
vate, in these possessions amounted to the enormous sum
of 450,000,0001. Of course for these statistics he was
not answerable ; he statod the source from which they
were derived, and he thought them worthy of credit. When
the vast extent of these interests was considered, and the
simple fact that they were committed to the charge of a de-
partment continually changing, he thought the subject worthy
of the attention of Parliament. He should take an opportu-
nity to bring the question in a substantive form before the
House ; in the meantime he hoped the House would allow
the petition, which he now presented, to be printed.
The following petition was then brought up, and ordered

to be printed. -
The humble Petition of Robert Montgomery Martin, Author
of the " History of the British Colonies,"
Sheweth,-1. That the Colonies and transmarine territo-
ries under the dominion and protection of the British Empire,
are of immense extent, and of the highest importance politic
cally, commercially and socially,—and therefore deserving the
serious and sedulous attention of your Honourable House.
. .

2. That those Colonies and transmarine territories are situ-
ate in both hemispheres,—under every zone, and beneath vari-
ous climes ; with a diversified population, speaking many lan-
guages,--unassimilated in laws, habits and religion,—subject
to different forms of local government, and therefore demand-
ing a uniformly wise system of administration for their imperial
rule.

3. That the inhabitants of those Colonies and Territories,
although embracing numbers, wealth, and intelligence, are
unrepresented in the Parliament of the United Kingdom ;
their complicated affairs being entrusted to the care of a Se-
cretary of State changing with every Administration in Eng-
land—selected for office with reference rather to an identity
of party feeling than to a knowledge of colonial and mercan-
tile affairs, and acting, therefore, on no defined and per-
manent system—without any known fixed principles—and, by
reason of the precarious and temporary tenure of office,
inspiring no useful confidence either in the Colonies or in
the merchants and others trading to and interested in the
peace and prosperity of those di,tant dependencies of the
Empire.
4. That when the Colonial Office was formed, our trans-
marine possessions were of minor consideration compared with
their ♦alue at the present day ; the additions by conquest, ces-
sion, and colonization, since the commencement of the pre-
sent century manifestly therefore require an altered and im-
proved mode of conducting the Colonial Government at home.
5. Your petitioner abstains from pointing out the reasons
for the inadequacy of the Colonial Office to execute efficiently
the momentous duties entrusted to its charge;—he adverts
not to the anomalous power and patronage vested in a single
individual subject to so trivial a responsibility as now exists,
neither will he refer to the causes for the dissatisfaction and
party spirit which more or less pervade each of our colonies—
destroying their social concord,—retarding their trade, and
weakening their connection with the mother country.
6. Your petitioner, relying on the wisdom of your Hoe.
House for an inquiry into—and a redress of—the grievance of
ishich he complains, presumes not to indicate the course which
Parliament should adopt, further than to observe that there are
many retired Colonial Governors, Judges, Civil Officers, and
Commercial Gentlemen, now in England, whose local know-
ledge and experience might be renderd beneficial should it be
deemed proper to form an Administrative Department for the
efficient management of the vast and paramountly important
nterests of the Colonies of this maritime and commercial

The Patentees avail themselves of this opportunity to state, that
Brandy is the only article they sell ; and they beg distinctly to ap-
rize the Public that their only Establishment is the Distillery,
0. 7, Smithfield-Bars, adjoining the Cattle Market, where the
patent
i
Brandy may be had either pale or coloured ; and if required,
/till be sent free of .expense to any part of the Town, in quantities
hot less than two Gallons, at Eighteen Shillings per Imperial
tiallon, of the highest legal strength, for Cash on delivery.

ROYAL AND MARINE FAMILY HOTEL, COMMER-

dIAL AND POSTING-HOUSE,
TEIGNMOUTH, DEVON.
TO BE LET,
WITH IMMEDIATE POSSESSION,

ALL that Desirable and much frequented
FAMILY HOTEL, delightfully situated on the Den,
Tielgumouth, known as the .MARINE HOTEL, TAVERN and
OSTING-HOUiE ; comprising fifteen bed-rooms, many of
Which are of large dimensions, and used as double bedded-rooms ;
suitable number of dining and drawing-rooms; spacious assembly-
,,*),u, fitted up with handsome chandeliers ; a well arranged coffee-
°°lll' ' bar ; wine, beer, and coal cellars ; the domestic apartments
kwitha good supply of water), are so arranged as calculated to
carry on a business to any extent.
Also, a Free awl Well Accustomed TAP, detached from the
house, together with stabling for about twenty horses, coach-house,
/am, &c.
The above establishment has been most respectably and satisfac-
torily conducted for the last ten years by Mrs. Lipscombe, who is
shout to relinquish the Tavern Business.
4_ This Hotel is delightfully situated on the commanding ex-
71'sive views of sea and land, and for beauty of situation does not
rank second to any establishment on the western coast ; the many
families
tof distinction who are in the constant practice of making
Commercial
Marine Hotel a residence, together with a great number of
rutnercial Gentlemen and others, who frequent the same, are suf-
ficient to recommend it to any person who may wish to engage in
establishment so advantageously situated.
Horses,
Valuable Furniture, Fixtures, Stock of Wines, Carriages,
&c., may be taken at a fair Valuation.
tr The Torquay Mail, Dartmouth, Newton, and other Coaches
°m Teignmouth to and from Exeter daily.
For viewing apply on the Premises ; any further particulars may
obtained (if by letter post paid), on application to Mr. Stone,
seignmouth ; Mr. Charles Force, Builder and Auctioneer, 106,
Sidvvell's ; to Mr. J. B. Wilcocks, or Mr. Cleife, Solicitors,
Exeter.
The Lease of the Property is held under the Earl of Devon, and.
n-,,,be purchased if required.
,f•vember 27, 1837.

empire.
And your petitioner`, as in duty bound, will ever pray, &c.
THE BALLOT.
Mr. GROTE presented a petition from Chichester in
favour of the Ballot.
CANADA—COLONEL ARTHUR.
Mr. HUMS presented a petition from a gentleman of
the name of Bryant, who stated that having been in Van
Diemen's Land as a settler, he had been subjected
to severe loss in consequence of the treatment and be-
haviour of Colonel Arthur, then Governor ; that by
various acts of Colonel Arthur he had lost many thousands
of pounds, and had been reduced almost to ruin ; that he
came over to this country for redress, and upon Colonel
Arthur's arrival here he commenced proceedings in the
Court of Queen's Bench against him for damages. The peti-
tioner also stated that the cause was not expected to come
on till next sessions ; that he had been informed the Govern-
ment were about to send Colonel Arthur to Canada, and that
consequently he might be placed in the same situation as
Col. Bradley was when damages were awarded against Colonel
Arthur at the suit of Col. Bradley, and be unable to receive
them for some time. He ( Mr. Hume) was not aware that
the law could enable Mr. Bryant to obtain an order pre-
venting Colonel Arthur leaving the country ; the conse-
quence would be, if the Government sent him to Canada,
and a verdict should be given in favour of Mr. Bryant to
the full amount of damages-30,000/., he would be with-
out remedy, and the petitioner therefore submitted to the
House. whether such a proceeding ought to be tolerated. He
(Mr. Hume) could not help expressing his regret that the
Government should think of sending to Canada in its present
state of excitement, without suing for what reason, an
individual who had conducted himself in the colony of
New South \Vales in such a way as to cause great dissa-
tisfaction.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member concluded
by expressing a hope that the Government would not lend
its assistance to an evasion of justice, and that Mr. Bryant
would be protected.
Sir GEORGE GREY said he understood that an ac-
tion had been brought in the Queen's Bench by Mr. Bryant
against Sir George Arthur, for an official act of the latter
wilst governor of Van Diemen's Land. He (Sir. G. G.)
had intended to ask an explination from Sir George
Arthur this day, but he had. not been able to see him.
He had no doubt, however, that the departure of that
gentleman from the country to his appointment in Canada
would not prevent Mr. Bryant frornobtaining justice. He

UNDER, the PATRONAGE of HER MAJESTY the QUEEN of
2141 COVER, HIS ROYAL HIGHNESS the DUKE of SUSSEX,
4..11 G Ii.CE the DU: HI..SS , f RICHMOND, &c. &c.
"4
11. E. SOLOMONS, OPTICIAN to the
Pi Royal Eye Infirmary, patentee of the Amber Spctacles,
I`lo' has the honor of announcing his arrival at his new Establishment,
hi, r s+ Old Bond street, (nearly opposite the western Exchange,) where
the seently invent-d and highly approved Spectacles may I. e adapted to
'tic `4rious circumstances of individual cases appertaining to defective
st4n• Whilst these Spectacles excel all others as regards their very
the; or refractive property, and their compara'ive lightness, they possess
sent wither advantage of modifying bright and strong light, which, at the
to g t.lne is transmitted through the various humours of the eye, so as
lty4"4der vision mast perfectly distinct, conveying also a sense of cool-
-0,11,4nd pleasure to the organ, with the additional equally important re-
Illsh"'etrlation of being FREE from the pernicious attributes of common
titil:p-t best n i,u short the qualities of Mr. Solomon's Spectacles admirably
h
to affbrd ease and comfort by protecting and strengthening
t,h4teYel, and to extend to vision the most decided and instantaneous relief
+tit 1. can accomplish. Their superior efficacy is attested by the follow-
4tioet4nent profes,:ors, who (among many others) have given them their
V. 4,lfied approbation :
irl,Yrr?ii, r,q. , Surgeon to the MoorfieLis Opthalmic Infirmary, he.
aohntnnoy Carliole, F.R.S., President
of the College of Surgeons.
.ste ma.. Levenson, Esq., Oculist to the King of the Belgians, andi_ his
Illtirr?",;7., Margaret-street, Cavendish-square.
rtti,''' "'are Esq.. Oculist, Bloomsbury-square.
.I Eden, Esq.,
Lg., Surgeon, Georges-street, Hanover.square.
'/. t,osn, Esq., Surgeon to the Eye Inflrm..ry, Bath.
',lin Oun, and I'. F. Ledsain, Esqs., Oculists, Eye Infirmary, Bin.
r 0441.
11.,essor Hufsland, Physician to the King of Prussia, Berlin.
proipsor Kneysig, Physician to the King of Saxony, Dresden.
li.„,cors Chants and Rohl, ()outlets, Leipsic.
h 6",:,tr I'onitz ()enlist, Dresden ; Doctor Schmeisser, Hamburgh.
1,414 ;TT, Solomon, is totally unconnected with persons of the same
h'‘'l'Lti..,thill country, and the Amber Spectacles bearing the ONLY
1i,,,` \t- now extant, their disposal is exclusively confined to Ins
''.l.. -`). 36, tld Bond-street, and to his braLel. establishments in
4ND

•
* Hours of attendance each day from I'► till 6 o'clock.

Mr. HUME said the appointment had taken place only
the day before yesterday, and it was reported that Sir
George Arthur was to leave England on Friday, and what
he (Mr. Hume) wanted to know was, whether the Govern-
ment, after what he had stated, would not suspend the
appointment? The Right Hon. Gentleman (Sir G. Grey)
had acknowledged that he could not see Sir George Ar-
thur when he wanted to see him. How, then, could a
private individual get access to him ?—(Hear.) He had
been written to, to know whether he was about to leave
England immediately, and up to this hour no answer what-
ever could be got from him.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
It was important that the ends of justice should not be
compromised by the Government sending Colonel Arthur
away.
Sir G. GREY—It was quite true that a letter had
been addressed by Mr. Bryant to the Colonial Office, but
as an appeal had been made to that House, be (Sir G.
Grey) would not give any answer, pending that appeal. He
would state further, that Colonel Arthur was in town yes-
terday, and he was informed, that he would return
to-morrow. There was not a shadow of doubt that
if Mr. Bryant applied personally or by letter to
Colonel Arthur, he would at once ascertain his address.
Mr. HUME explained.
NEW WRIT.

Sir THOMAS FREMANTLE moved that the
Clerk of the Crown be instructed to issue a new writ for
Sudbury in the room of Sir James Hamilton, who had ac-
cepted the Stewardship of the Chiltern Hundreds.
ELECTION EXPENSES.

Mr. HUME gave notice that on Thursday next he
would move for leave to bring in a Bill to define and regu-
late the lawful expenses at elections for Members of Par-
liament.

COUNTY RATES.
The HoN. 111EmBag then gave notice that he would at
the same time move fur leave to bring in a Bill to establish

councils for the better management of County rates in Eng-

land an I Wales.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL was understood to express
his -upOlingness,to make the arrangement which the Hon.
Meniter desired.

Mr. FIELDEN (whose observations were for the most
part inaudible in the Gallery) was understood to give
notice that he would bring on the subject on Friday night,
upon the motion for a Committee of Supply.
CHURCH ACCOMMODATION (SCOTLAND).
Sir ROBERT PEEL said that months since a Com-
mission had been appointed by the Government to enquire
into the state of Church accommodation in Scotland,
and the means of affording religious instruction in that
country. One Report from the Commissioners bad
been laid before the House ; and he understood that
another Report, which completed the inquiry respecting
the condition of Glasgow, had been submitted to her Ma-
jesty. It would be a great advantage to have the whole of
the Report ; but what he now more particularly wished
was to know the result of the inquiry respecting Glasgow.
because he could not help thinking that if they had the Re-
port of the state of the towns of Edinburgh and Glasgow ;
they would then be able to take a fair comparative view of
the state of Church accommodation in Scotland,and whatever
measures were to be introduced need not lie deferred in con-
sequence of the incompleteness of the inquiry in other parts.
He understood the Report had been actually presented to
her Majesty's Government, and he hoped the Noble Lord
would take an early period to present the Report and the
evidence connected with it. It was a subordinate rea-
son for presenting the Report that a Committee bad
been appointed to inquire into the state of the
poor in point of education in the- large towns in the United
Kingdom. It would greatly facilitate the enquiries before
that Committee to have the Report before it ; but quite in-
dependently of that consideration, with reference to the ab-
stract importance of the subject itself, he would again express
his hope that the Noble Lord would on an early day
lay before the House the Report of the Committee on
Church accommodation in Glasgow.
Lord J. RUSSELL—The Right Hnn. Gentleman was
quite correct in supposing that he (Lord J. Russell) had
stated that her Majesty's Government had received a copy
of the Report with respect to Glasgow. The only
reason why the Report had been delayed a few days
was in consequence of the proposal of the Commissioners,
that the Report should be altogether printed in Scotland,
and not in this country—only three or four copies having
been sent, which were not sufficient to distribute among
the Members of the House. He should present the
Report to-morrow, and he quite agreed with the Right
Hon. Gentleman, that when the Reports with respect to
Edinburgh and Glasgow were before the House, they
could fairly draw an inference from them with respect to
the state of Church accommodation in the other parts oe
Scotland.

NEW HOUSES OF PARLIAMENT.
The HoN. MEMBER also gave notice that he should
move for copies of the Estimates and Contracts, for making
the embankment for the new Houses of Parliament.

BERWICK-ON-TWEED ELECTION.
Mr. H. HINDE begged to call the attention of the
House to a subject which materially affected its charaCter
and proceedings. He held in his hand a petition from an
elector of the Town of Berwick-on-Tweed. The petitioner
stated that he had given his vote at the last election
in favor of the sitting Members, and since then he had re-
ceived a letter from a solicitor named Sinclair, requiring
him to attend and give evidence before a Committee of the
House of Commons, against the two sitting Members. The

petitioner replied that be had no evidence to give againit
them, upon which Mr. Sinclair wrote offering him a large
sum of money to give such evidence. If the allegations in
the petition were true, the conduct of the person against
whom the petitioner complained was such as ought to sub-
ject him to the severest censure and heaviest punishment
that. that House could inflict.—(Hear.) He would not

presume without sufficient grounds that the statements
were true, and he felt at the same time some difficulty in
shaping the cour•,e he ought to take with regard to it ;
because a petition has been presented against the return of
the Members lately elected. Had that not been the case,
he would either have moved that the party implicated be
c tiled to the bar, or that the subject should be made a mat-
ter of inquiry before a Select Committee. It might
however be objected to that course, and perhaps justly,
that such a course would interfere with and prejudice the
enquiry which must take place upon the election petition.
At the same time, having presented the petition, it would
be his duty to take some steps to keep the subject under
the notice of the House. He would then simply move
that the petition be printed, with a view to further proceed-
ings ; but as he had no other wish than to do justice to all
parties, he was in the hands of the House, and would be
guided as it wished. He moved that the petition he
brought up.
Sir It. INGLIS said, that if the House followed the
precedent laid down the other night in the Bridgewater
case, the petition must be withdrawn till the merits of the
election petition had been considered and settled.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL took the same view of the
matter as the Hon. Member for the University of Oxford.
It seemed to him that the case was very similar to the
Bridgewater case, and that no step could be taken upon
the petition without its having a direct influence
upon the consideration of the election petition.—( Hear,
hear, hear.) In his opinion the Honourable Member
should follow the example of the Hon. Member for Sheffield,
and withdraw the petition for a time, as it could not be
printed without directly prejudicing the merits of the elec-
tion petition.
Mr. W. W. WYNN said the question was whether
the House should take the punishment in its own hands, or
whether it should direct the Attorney-General to take pro-
ceedings to punish the party for suborning evidence. He
thought an opportunity should be given for enquiry into the
subject, and for that purpose it should be referred to an
Election Committee to report specially upon it.
Mr. HINDE made some observations which were totally
inaudible in the gallery.
CIVIL LIST.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER brought
up the Report of the Select Committee on the Civil List.
FOREIGN AFFAIRS.

Mr. MACLEAN seeing the Noble Lonl (Palmerston)

IRISH CORPORATIONS.
On the motion of Lord J. RUSSELL, that paragraph
in her Majesty's Speech relating to the Irish Corporations
was read—as was the corresponding paragraph in the Speech
of the late King delivered in 1836.—(Hear, hear.) The
Noble Lord then rose, and said—Sir, it is upon
these two paragraphs in the speech of her Majesty and of
his late Majesty, that I shall propose the motion which I
have now to bring before the House, and upon which
I shall consider it is unnecessary for me to
enter into any details of our reasons, and
argument for so doing. I found myself upon that Bill
which has before passed this House upon two occasions,
and which has shown the determination of the House
in former times. The first time that Bill was brought
under the notice of the House, it was founded upon
that part of his late Majesty's speech which recommended
us to found Corporations in Ireland upon similar prin-
ciples as the Corporations in England and Scotland had
already been remodelled. Sir, that passage was certainly
not introduced into the speech for the purpose of exciting
opposition to the address to the Crown. It did, however,
provoke discussion, and an attempt was made to strike out
those words " upon the same principles," and to assure his
Majesty that we should remedy the defects which were found to
exist:in the Corporations of Ireland. Sir, though that op-
position was not expected by us, yet we did state
at once that we could not consent to carry an address to
the Throne which laid it down as a principle that the Irish
people were not fit to enjoy that liberty which their
brethren in England and Scotland had already obtained.
Upon that motion the House decided, by a majo-
rity of upwards of 40, in concurrence with the
speech of his Majesty, utterly denying the proposition
laid down on the other side of the House. I will refer to
the divisions which took place in the House during the late
Sessions, which clearly showed the determination of the
House on this important subject. Sir, the first amendment
that was proposed was one which was laid before the
House by the Noble Member for Lancashire.—(Hear.)
That amendment proposed to put an end to Corporations
in Ireland altogether, but 307 voted against that amend-
ment, while '243 only supported it, making a majority of 64.
When again, Sir, the other House of Parliament declared
that they were of opinion that those Corporations ought to
be abolished ; and when they sent down to this House
their clauses, framed with considerable skill, for the
purpose of putting an entire end to Corporations
of any kind, placing the power enjoyed by those
Corporations in the hands of Commissioners, we contended
that it was vitally necessary that these Corporations should
be preserved—the division on that occasion was 318 to
232, giving us a majority of 86 ; and, Sir, in the
last Session of Parliament in the present year there was
only one division on the subject. That division was
taken upon an instruction which was again proposed
by the Noble Lord the Member for Lancashire ; but
he found only 242 to vote with him, while 322 voted
against his proposition, making a majority of 80.
Now, Sir, I say, the question having been thus three
times under the consideration of the House—having been
twice proposed by being moved in this House—and taken
a third time into consideration upon the amendment of
the Lords—l say the opinion of the late House of Com-
mons must apply here, whether it be considered upon the
details or the principles, that it considered it necessary
that the same species of Municipal Corporations ought tobe
extended to Ireland that existed in England and Scotland.
Sir, I will found myself upon that fact, and until I hear
in this House other sentiments, I shall presume that in
bringing in this Bill, the present House of Commons will
conform to the opinion of the late House, and that they
will maintain, whether against Members, or against the
other House of Parliament, that we do not consider the
people of Ireland so much aliens—(Great cheering)—as
to refuse to them a participation of our privileges. Having
mentioned the numbers who voted for and against
that measure in the last Session, I will now mention
likewise an individual, a Member of this House, whose
opinions strongly show that the opinion held by those on
the other side of the House who do not generally concur
with her Majesty's Ministers is not worth a great deal.
i It s an address to his constituents, the independent electors
of the Southern Division of the County of Derby, and it
Is signed " George Crewe." He states that in the last year,
1835, he had voted against this Bill, but that he
had since that period deeply reflected on the
subject, and examined it under all its bear-
ings, and the result had been, so far as regarded
Himself individually, be bad felt dissatisfied ; and that in the
present session he felt that he could not
reconcile his mind to the adoption of the plan proposed by

in his place, wished to remind him of a petition which had
been entrusted to the Noble Lord's charge for presentation
to her Majesty, from certain English subjects who were
detained in prison in Portugal, and begged to know whether
the Noble Lord was of opinion that these parties were en-
titled to the intervention of the British Government ?
Mr. J. O'CONNELL rose to order ; the Honourable
Member was making a long speech on a subject as to
which he did not know whether the House was desirous
of hearing so much.
The SPEAKER was understood to say that the Hon.
Member for Oxford was speaking to the question.
Mr. M ACLEAN proceeded.—He thought the subject
well worthy the attention of the House, and the question
which he put to the Noble Lord, whether the British Go-
vernment was bound to protect these 830 prisoners, and
whether he was prepared to interfere in their behalf, was
one of humanity, not of politics.
Lord PALMERSTON said he did not admit that these
persons were, under a fair construction of the articles, en-
titled to be sent to England ; on the contrary, he consi-
dered that the Portuguese Government were bound to de-
tain these prisoners until they were exchanged. Still, it was
the duty of the British Government to see that while they
were detained they were well treated. He (Lord P.) be-
lieved they were well treated. By a letter which be had
received from the Commandant of the district a year and two
months ago, he had learned that they were abundantly sup-
plied with rations, and that they were in all respects as well
treated as prisoners ought to be ; however, a fresh inquiry
would be instituted, and any just complaints would be re-
dressed.—(Hear, hear.)
NEW POOR LAW.
Mr. WHITE rose to make some explanations with
regard to the New Poor Law.
Mr. G. P. YOUNG rose to order. What right had
the Hon. Gentleman to take precedence of the many no-
tices which were upon the paper ?—( Hear.)
Lord JOHN RUSSELL admitted that the Hon.
Member for Sunderland had no right to take precedence ;
but he thought that perhaps the House would allow him to
make an explanation as to something which took place in
the debate on this subject the other night.
Mr. LAMBTON said that he wished to make an ob-
servation on the same subject.
Sir E. KNATCH BULL agreed with the Hon. Mem"
her for Teignmoutlt (Mr. Y.) It was very inconvenient
for Members to interpose between the notices that were
upon the paper,—(Hear, hear.)

is Bill and let it lay over till after il'ls recess, in or,
that Members might have an opportunity of considering its
provisions.—Leave given.
Mr. MAHONY then moved for leave two bring in a Bill
to amend an Act, the 11th Charles 1., which was an Act
for the preservation of the inheritance, rights, and profits of
lands belonging to the Church and persons ecclegb stical. His
object was to extend the principle oftbe Church t en, poral itiee
Act, ' and for allowing the College of Dublin to grant
leases in perpetuity.
The SPEAKERinceafrod.whether the Bill was intended
,0 affect only the property of ;the College of Dublin.
Mr. MAHONY said No--he intended it to apply to
I lands.
the party with whom he generally concurred. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER con-
He should therefore vote for the same plan of Municipal sidered that the Bill would be in the nature of an Estate
Corporations for Ireland as existed in England and Scot- Bill, and must be brought in conformable to all the rules
winch no which regulated such Bills. It would save time and trouble
land. This, Sir, is the sentiment of an individual
if the Hon. Gentleman would take
doubt might be considered of little value, if he had the highest advice on
been one who had constantly acted with the Minis- the subject before he pressed his motion.
terial party in this House ; or if he had been Mr. FRENCH begged to say that he brought in a smie
one of the representatives of Ireland advocating the inte- her Bill two Sessions ago, and there was then no objection
terests of his native country.—(Cheers.) But coming as it in point of form.
does from one who has always been accustomed to vote on Mr. LEFROY :If the Bill was to interfere with the
rivate proerty of the College of Dublin, he would feel it
the other side, it must show, and that strongly, toe, a great P
want of confidence in what his own party had done. Sir, I his duty op give it all the opposition in his power.
hold this as a sufficient reason for not proceeding to con- Mr. O'CONNELL said he thought this was a public
sider the principles or details of this measure.—(Cheers.) and not a private Bill ; still be wished it to be under-
Sir, I took last year a course which I considered incumbent stood that he felt it was his duty not to support
on me to adopt in proposing the Municipal Bill for Ireland. it unless it bad the assent of the Provost and
I entered into the whole of the Government of that
Felllows of Dublin University, to whom he considered him-
country. I did so, because there had been a large self pledged not to consent to any general Act affecting their
meeting of perons calling themselves the Protes- interests, without their acquiescence.—(Hear, hear.)
tants of Ireland—falsely calling themselves so—their Sir E. SUGDEN expressed a similar opinion as to the
nnmbers being few in comparison with the whole body. Bill being of a public nature.
They sent forth denunciations against the Government of Mr. MAHONY said he would request leave to adjourn
Lord Mulgrave. The subject of those denunciations hay- the Bill till to-morrow; Millions of acres of land, he stated,
ing been taken into consideration by the other House, I depended on the question ; and• if the House allowed the
considered it unnecessary to bring forward the question of Bill to be read a first time, before it was read a second time
the manner in which the Government had been con- he would move that it be referred to a Select Committee.
ducted in that country, leaving it for the House to Postponed till to morrow.
decide upon the merits of the question.—(Hear.) PRESBYTERIANS IN IRELAND.
But, Sir, the course pursued last year by the opposition Mr. GIBSON moved for leave to bring in a Bill en-
party, a course which I denounce as wanting in boldness and abling Presbyterian Protestants in Ireland to make oath by
courage, is not the course which they have pursued this uplifting their hands. The Hon. Member spoke in such a
year. In the other House of Parliament, they have low tone as to be nearly inaudible in the Gallery.
thought proper to bring forward such charges as they have The Presbyterian eopulation of Ireland was composed of
to make aainst the Government of Lord Mulgrave, and I four great denominations, namely, the general Synod of
g
am content to leave the defence of Government to the Ulster, the Seceders, the Covensnters. end the Ration-
impression made on that House by the statements of Lord strant Synod of Ulster. Now, those four denominations
Mulgrave, without adding one word myself to it. I be proposed to include in the Bill.
am ready to say now, as I said before, that with res. The Motion was agreed to.
pact to the conduct of that Noble Lord, I am THE LATE SPEAKER.
prepared Sir F. POLLOCK, who had given notice of his intention
to be judged by the acts of his Government—
tococall
Committee
attention of the House to the report, of the " Select
(Cheers from the Ministerial benches)—that I hold my-
m Housem tt e e obn thfierelos
self, in every respect, responsible for the general goverment theofs est
the Houses the
/o latees Speaker and officers of
Parliament,"
of Ireland, and that I will never shrink from the respon- view to give effecty to their claimsuosn theo consideration ofwi tthh the
sibility of such acts as Lord Mulgrave may choose House, did not wish to occupy the time of the House unneces-
to do in the exercise of his authority.—(Continued cheer- sarily, and he should, therefore, move that they resolve them-
ing.) Sir, not only with regard to this inquiry, but in selves into a Committee of the whole House. When in Corn-
other respects have Hon. Gentlemen taken a more mittee it was his intention to move for an Address to her Ma-
decided part than they did last year. They have jesty;praying for compensation to the late Speaker and other
thought proper not only to impugn generally the officers for losses sustained by the fire of the Houses of Par_
conduct of my Lord Mulgrave, but they have brought the liament.
individual acts of his government under consideration. Mr. HUME hoped that some reason would be assigned for
such a motion
We had the other night as good a specimen as could be
Sir F. POLLOCK had no o objecti n to state it at any
t afforded us of the grievous acts of partiality and oppression length ,which the Hon. Mmbermi
EXCHEQUERhtwisii..-- teaslsuglter.)
with which the Government of the Noble Lord is charged. The CHANCELLOR' of the
—(Laughter and cheers from the Ministerial Benches.) pared to say this, that after due inquiry, after the evidencePre -
For the last two years we have heard of nothing but the that had beer, given, and after an attentive consideration of
monstrous acts of oppression and partiality of wich the the report which he held in his hand, he bad come to the con-
Irish Government have been guilty, and when they are elusion that there was an insuperable objeclion to the prinei_
brought before the House, it is natural to suppose that plc for which the Honourable Member conte ided, and he was
Hon. Gentlemen. would select the strongest cases that Prepared to oppose the Speaker leaving the chaie—( Cheers. )
could be adduced.—(Hear, hear, hear.) The pro- Entertaining suchen opinion, he Considered that the discussion
ceeding that was made the subject of debate the ought then to be proceeded with.
Sir F. POLLOCK would shortly relate to the House the
other night, was, no doubt, the strongest they had to
circumstancesi under which Lord Canterbury sustained losses
bring forward, and I leave it to the House, or rather to
the impression which it left on the House, how far that tt oh
et
report
which she s: cadin thousandsb is hand, of piot ends.
ed Accordinghi iot:
case was established—(Cheers)—and I will now leave the tober,lB34, during the absence of Lord 'gnetaerrburty,ahtis resi-
Hon.- and Gallant Colonel all the glory of his motion.— deuce was burned down, and the furniture, &c., materaillv da-
(Laughter and cheers.) Sir, such being the state of the waged, the greater potion being entirely destroyed. Under
case, I feel it unnecessary to enter into the details or these circumstances he had to present the case of Lord Can-
principle of the Bill, founded as it is on the mature con- terbury to the House as one highly deservieg of their consider-
sideration of another House of Commons. I shall, there- lion. He would state very shortly the grounds on which he
fore, Sir, now move for leave to bringrations in Ireland. in a Bill for the thought the claim of Lord Canterbury to compensation rested.
better regulation of the Municipal Corporations
He thought it sufficient to state that Lord Canterbury was a
public servant of this country, compelled to reside in a certain
Mn. SHAW said he did not mean to oppose the motiontaitiouasmsatioexepoeon_ese,utelonedethol
thishe
lhado incurred
h
of the Noble Lord for the first reading of this Bill. The many
ye
uusebliems%,
aens.tsrooyved
only information. which the Noble Lord had given as by fire through the negligence of other'
to its principles was, two extracts from speeches from whom he had no controul. He would say a single word on
r
the Throne—one delivered by his late Majesty in what he considered to be the common law of the case. By the
1835, the other 'from her Majesty's speech at the opening common law of England the late Speaker, having lost his pro-
of this Session. There was certainly a great distinction perty by a fire whicti originated elsewhere than ie his owe house,
between the two. The former speech recommended to the and through the negligence of persons over whom he had use,
the principle on which a measure for the regale- ther a direct nor indirect controul, was entitled to redress
tion of Municipal Corporations in Ireland should he framed, somewhere. He would not take up the time of the Hoes: in
c
and objection being taken to that principle, a division took citing authorities, he would mention to the Attorney-General
place upon it. But the speech of the present Session where they were to be found, namely, in Comyn's Digest,
letter
.A, number 6. It was there destinetly laid down that
merely called attention to the better regulation of the an
actbloonusoeniftheficraesebr‘o7(teddlie against
and
owner and occupier
government of cities and towns in Ireland. There was out there destroyed the house of
nothing in it to which reasonable objection could fairly be his neighbour.a This was the state of the 1.. w before the Eta_
raised. The party to which he (Mr. S.) belonged had al- tote of Anne. He was aware that -in the last Pa-iament
ready agreed to the abolition of existing Corporations, and when there had been some opposition offered to this claim, it
bound themselves to any measure which should provide for was asked was Lord Canterbury insured?—( Hear.) To this
the impartial administration of justice, and for the better he would give two answers. At the time the fire happened,
government of these cities and towns. Though the Noble Lord in point of fact, the place was not insured, but he begged to
had not favoured the House with any details as to his mea-
sty that Lord Canterbury was under no obligation to tae in-
sured in respect of this house. If Lord Canterbury, in virtue
sure, he bad entered into various other subjects. The
of his office, had been giving a dinner party to the Members
question brought forward the other night (by Colonel Per-
ofthe House of Commons, and had found his house on fire and
ceval) had nothing to do with the general government of his
co property
ml)ensatio n
d ha
etStrOtyiu
ejiosasnedmtihehnt
ask him
comehadw
tic: the l muse
not fer
Ireland ; it was one of local interests only. He (Mr. S.
in-
however was ready to meet the Noble Lord on any fitting surcd ?• But Lord Canterburyg had a perfect righthe had I d
to take upon
occasion on the general question of the Irish Government, himself his own domestic risks, and he had an equal right to
and to state opinions directly the reverse of those which call upon the House to protect him against conseluences
had been expressed by the Noble Lord, who had been so arising from the negligence is of other servants of
anxious to procure a cheer for that Government.—(Oppo- the Crown. If the negligence had been Lord Canterbury's
sitter cheers.) He (Mr. S.) hoped that the other mea- own. he would then understand the argument respecting his
net being insured; but another argument arose on this point.
sures regarding Ireland mentioned in the Speech from the
Even if Lord Canterbury had been insured, his policy would
Throne would be carried on part passu with this Bill. The
not have been worth one fanhing in point of law, as from the
Irish Poor-law Bill had already been introduced. But what
negligent construction of the premises, f:?;ming as they did
had become of the Irish Church Bill—of the inconvenient part of the Royal Palace, and from the mixture of blicks and
question of Appropriation ?—(Opposition cheers. He wood, there was in reality no party-wall within the meaning of
(Mr. Shaw) would be happy to see all these ques- the Act. The late Speaker had for fifteen years insured this
tions amicably adjusted.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") property. He retired from the Chair, not expecting that he
He could not help observing, that notwithstanding the should be called upon to fill it again, and his insurance had
Noble Lord's effort to raise a popular cry on this subject, been permitted to expire. He hoped that tic House would
there had been no excitement in Ireland in favour of the Bill. support his motion for going into Commi:tee.—( Hear. )
—(Hear, hear.) He believed that the sober-minded of both The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, the
parties would be more satisfied to have the management question was, whether, upon the state of f.c,s sitforh in evi-
of local affairs in the hands of Boards and Commissions,
der mon, the House would be warranted in granting the sum of
claimed? His Hon. and Leerecd Friend said
rather than in expensive Corporations, subject to the excite-
it3huathicl e'ey ( Su. F. Pollock) knew no cause to reproach him (the
ment of constantly recurring elections. On the other band Chancellor of the Exchequer) with the course he had taken.
he was bound to admit that perhaps too much import-. He hoped that the Huse would find no reason to corn.
ance was attached to the existing institutions of plain of the course he had already taken, and of the coarse he
that description in Ireland. Without binding himself was about to take—a course which would stand justified on the
to any specific proposition, he must say that he thought it grounds of public duty.—( Hear, hear.) This subject had
would be more analogous to what had been done respect- come under the consideration of the last Parliament. On
ing the English Corporations if a separate Bill had been that occasion his Hon. and Learned Friend ( Sir F. Pollock)
brought in for the local government of Dublin, as was on a introduced the matter to the attention of the House. He (the
former occasion proposed by the Hon. and Learned Chancellor of the Exchequer) then stated th it the Go :ern-
Member for Dublin himself. He thought that the im- ment, having had the question before then, did not feel justi-
portance of Dublin in population and commerce, and in fied, on their own authority, in awarding compensation to the
late Speaker, but that, considering the circumstances under
being the seat of Government, entitled it to that sepa-
unfit
tisi
uthbFeelots;obradb beene sustained,.d. t_heeyed_idenot conslderhitwaans
rate consideration. If the Noble Lord had let the
matter should
of t
House know what the nature of his Bill was, then suggestedj that consideration
referred to a Select
beeitself.
he (Mr. Shaw) might have found it necessary to Committee, impartially constituted, and who within a short
trouble the House with some observations upon its de- period would have the power of forming a just decision. The
tails. But the Noble Lord had deprived him of that op- appointment of the Committee was opposed by those Gentle-
portunity by leaving him in ignorance of all the provisions men who were adverse to the grant. It was, however, &p-
-of his Bill.—(A laugh.) pointed; they had reported the evidence, and upon that evi-
Leave was then given to bring in the Bill : Lord Mor- dente the House was now called upon to decide. He begged
petit and others were directed to prepare it. the House to notice upon what fallacies the Hon. and Learned
MORTGAGES ON SHIPPING. Member had rested his whole case.—( Hear, hear, hear.)
Mr. G. F. YOUNG moved for leave to bring in a Bill These fallacies of which he complained were contradicted
by the very evidence which the Honourable and Learned
Ato amend the laws relating to Mortgages of Ships. I unbar held in his hand. Did the Hon. and Learned Gentle-
It was not his intention to throw any impediment in the way man mean to say that the Insurance Company would not be
of persons having property in ships, and having occasion bound to pay? They had it distinctly in evidence, in page 6of
to raise money on that property ; but to put an end the printed Minutes, that it was stated by one of the officers
to fraudulent practices, which were injurious both connected with the very Company in which Lord Canterbury
to the tradesmen who supplied ships with stores, and had insured, that the practice of the Company was, in case of
to those who had bona fide property in ships. He would a defect in the policy like the present, that a statement of the
not trouble the House with any discussion of the provisions facts should be presented to the Court of Directors, by whom
of the Bill in that stage, but would only say that it had the it would be taken into consideration, and in most cases favour-
entire approval of the Right Hon. and Learned Civilian, ably received, wherever it was proved to the Court that the
deviation was not known to the party who had made the con-
the Member for the Tower Hamlets. that the deviation in the
Mr. Alderman THOMPSON said that this Bill would trace suggestionl'ooswtawtheeerewwasashnoooweoLordth.
Canterbury; and there
have the very opposite effect to what was intended by the presentould be no doubt, therefore, that if he had continued his in-
Bill of last year, and the measure was not at surance the Insurance Company would not have hesitated for a
all necessary for the protection of persons advancing single moment to pay it.—( Hear.) But this was not all.
money by way of mortgage on ships. Every person There was a further question and answer in respect of the
so lending money on ships had the means of knowing mode adopted at Insurance offices. The witness was esked
whether any part of the ship was already mortgaged. whether a party by such a deviation would forfeit his legal
There was a book at Lloyd's in which every mort- right? The answer was, certainly not. He was then
gage must be entered, no mortgage being valid that was asked whether the paying the money was a matter of
inspection grace or a matter of right? The answer was decidedly ;
not so entered, and no fee was charged for the
if the person deviated from the contract, he must come be-
ef that book. The effect of the Bill would be to prevent
fore the Company for mercy.—(Hear, hear, from Sir
shipowners from mortgaging their property with the same
F. Pollock, and other Members on the Opposition benches. )
facility as they could at present ; and as the owners of He sometimes found Honourable and even Learned Gentle-
all other kinds of property. He complained also that men weakening their case by asking a question too much, and
the shipowners had not been sufficiently consulted about it ; the present was a marvellous instance of the impolicy of ask-
but he did oppose the first reading. ing too many questions, for the ntxt question was, "In
Mr. YOUNG assured his Hon. Friend that the Bill these cases where you extend grace and favour Not does the
did not contain any provisions which could have the effect amount
whether tat all affhe suthect
meibe r decision ?" The aor any
at 5,000/, or 6,000/„other sum,
he supposed. ' if the case should be taken into favourable consideration, we
Leave was then given to bring in the Bill.
look at the principle, and Lot to the amount." The next
BANK OF IRELAND.
Mr. PEIRCE MAHONY put a question to the "That 'it should
question was, " What is that principle ?"
that
Chancellor to the satisfaction of the Court of
making Directorsthetnat
Chancellor of the Exchequer, respecting the renewal of
con-
the Charter of the Bank of Ireland, which would shortly tviatien.was not known tothetip,,a
the deviation t ion wr.s known
expire But it was suggested that
expire ; but the question was very indistinctly heard in thebe the doubt
toLord Canterbury, and could there, then, least.
sallery, and the answer of the Chancellor of the Ex- that his claim would have met with a favourable considera-
chequer was totally inaudible. tion from the Insurance Company if he had been in a si-
GRAND JURIES (IRELAND.) ' tuation to bring it forward ?—( Hear, hear.) But lie begged
Mr. MAHONY then moved for leave to bring to call the attention of the Ileuse pa-ticularly to this. Was
in a Bill respecting Grand Juries in Ireland. If Lord Canterbury the only person who came under the cate-
he obtained the leave he sought, he would introduce gory of claimants? Was there no body else in the same

situation whose case ran upon all fours with the case of Lord
Canterbury? He would pass from Lord Cantorbury to a
very worthy and excellent officer, Mr. Bellamy. That
Gentleman was an officer of the House of Commons, and had
also a deviation in his policy, so that in this respect his case
and Lord Canterbury's were exactly alike. He had suffered
loss by the fire as well as Lord Canterbury. So far their
cases were identical. Mr. Bellamy had, however, insured,
as Lord Canterbury repeatedly had done before, but which
latterly he had ceased to do. Mr. Bellamy applied to the
Insurance office, and was paid the whole amount of his
policy without any difficulty being raised ; on the contrary,
the amount was paid readily and cheerfully.—( Hear, hear.)
Was thr.re a man, then, who could doubt, if Lord Canter-
bury had insured as Mr. Bellamy had done, that the result to
Lord Canterbury would not have been the same as to Mr. Bel-
lamy ?—( Hear, hear, hear.) His not being insured, therefore
was owing to the neglect and forgetfulness of Lord Canter-
bury himself. It was stated that there were two precedents,
to justify the present claim, namely, one with respect to Sir
Robert Gordon, and the other with respect to the fire in St.
James's Palace. Now, neither the one nor the other applied
in the slightest degree to the present case.—(Hear, hear.)
On these grounds he felt bound, as a matter of principle, to
resist the present motion.—(Cheers.) He thought it right,
however, before he sat down, to advert to the particular cir-
cumstances of Lord Canterbury's case. It was stated by
Lord Canterbury in his evidence that as long as he considered
himself permanently in the service of the House of Com-
mons, so long he insured his property ; and that he discon-
tinued insuring it when, not of his own seeking, but at the
request of the Government and for the public convenience,
he, not permanently, but for a temporary purpose, resumed
his functions. This was the real point of the case. But
there was no ground whatever for saying that if Lord Canter-
bury came back for a year or a session it was not optional
with him to insure ; so that such a reason for accedieg to the
present motion—although he stated it that gentlemen dis-
cussing this question might not overlook any point bearing
upon it—was altogether untenable.
Mr. WARBURTON adhered to the ground which he had
taken last session in opposition to the present motion, and that
was, that the House of Commons should not show greater fa-
vour to Lord Canterbury than they would be disposed to do
to any other individual.—( Hear, hear.) He must say that if
any one transaction deserved to be characterized by the name
of a downright job, that to which he was about to refer came
under that designation. It appeared that after the fire had
taken place, and that the whole house of the Speaker was in
a dilapidated state, an application had been made by Lord
Canterbury to the Treasury to purchase eight chairs, two
screens, and two sofas, for the rum of 500 guineas, that he had
given for them. These eight chairs, two screens, and two
sofas had been purchased from Lord Gwydyr, who claimed
them as a perquisite, because at the coronation of his Majesty
George IV. that Monarch had slept in that house the dap
preceding his Coronation, and this event, by some old
grant, bestowed the property on the individual who held
the office which the Noble Lord to whom he referred
filled. The demand was made before the Court of Claims
and granted. The late Speaker having purchased this furni-
ture, it was preserved after a fire took place on the premises ;
and in order to make it available to the new Speaker, it would
be necessary to build a house to suit the furniture, and not the
furniture the house. This offer was made during the short
administration of the Right Hon. Baronet, and it seemed to
have been accepted, and on the very point of being concluded,
when a change in the Administration took place. And thus
was the most arrant job that was ever attempted to be perpe-
trated by any Government defeated.—( Hear, hear.) Having,
then, this proof that there was a greater disposition to favour
Lord Canterbury than any other person, he asked Hon. Mem-
bers not to outrage their own feelings of justice by voting un-
justly towards others ; and he begged of them, as they regu-
lated their conduct by the rule of acting, nee prece nec pretio,
not to suffer their sense of the hospitality and urbanity of the
late Speaker, which he cheerfully acknowledged, to lead them
into the commission of an unjustifiable act.—(Hear, hear.)
He contended that, even where the act of the Government
made property uninsurable, it was not their habit to grant
compensation.—( Hear, hear. )
Sir E. SUG DE N hoped that the fears of the Hon. Mem-
ber for Bridport with regard to his clients' chance of com-
pensation would not be further entertained after that night's
discussion, and that he would be persuaded that the Treasury
was fully competent to meet that as well as the present claim.
Mr. W A RBU RT ON I never doubted that.
Sir E. SUG DEN—At all events, be thought that the
reasoning of the Hon. Gentleman was somewhat singular, and
tended to press personally and severely on Lord Canterbury,
to whom every Member of that House was deeply indebted
for his impartiality and courtesy in performing the duties of
Speaker.-( Cheers.) He thought it was most unreasonably
feared that this case might be drawn into a precedent. The
offices of other public servants were not at all analogous to
that which the Speaker of that House filled. Much stress
had been laid on the allowance made to Mr. Bellamy by the
Insurance-office at which he had, insured. It did not, how-
ever, follow that the Company atwhich Lord Canterbury might
have insured would have followed the example thus set to
them, because the buildings differed in situation and in descrip-
tion.—( Hear, hear.) He appealed to the House, whether
they would refuse to act in a gracious manner towards one
who had long presided over their deliberations, and the justice
of whose case was at least as strong as those which the Hon.
Member for Bridport had last night advocated.—( Cheers.)
Mr. HUME was rather surprised to hear the Right Ho-
nourable and Learned Gentleman complain of the allusion
which his Honourable Friend (Mr. Warburton) had made to
the purchase by the late Speaker of the eight chairs and the
two sofas.
Sir E. SUGDEN—I never referred to chairs or sifr.s
at all.

Mr. HUME—tic should be glad to know, then, why the
Right Honourable and Learned Gentleman had at all reflected
on the course of argument pursued by his Hon. Friend ?
( Hear, hear.) His Hon. Friend had adduced a case which,
in his opii.ion, was an apt illustration of Tory jobbing, and
which certainly called for explanation from the Noble Lord
opposite (Lord George Somerset), who was Commissioner of
Woods and Forests under the Administration of the Right
Honourable Baronet the Member for Tamworth.—( Hear. )
He did not blame Lord Canterbury for getting what he could ;
but he considered the 4onduct of the Noble Lord opposite
highly censurable in promising five hundred guineas for five
old chairs and three old screens, in order that they might
be retained until a new Speaker had a new House built
—( Much laughter.) The case which his Honourable
Friend had laid before them was the most ar;ant job which
had ever come under his knowledge.—( Hear, hear, hear. )
He had assisted in raking up many jobs in that House., but
he ventured to say that a more disgraceful one than that
which had been that night submitted was never yet di closed.
—( Cheers. )—The Government of Lord Melbourne presented
in this instance a strong contrast to that of the Right Hon.
Member for Tamworth, inasmuch as it demonstrated how
anxious the existing Administration was not to yield to the
claim of any one as a matter of favour, but to rest every case
upon its m-rits.—( Hear, hear.) This was rather a strange
time for bringing forward such a claim. The fire took place
in October, 1834, and no demand was made until April, 1837.
He understood the Right Hon. and Learned Gentlemen had
abandoned the law of the case, though it had been mainly re-
lied upon by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman who made the
motion. "We give up," said the Hon. and Learned Gen-
tleman, " our right as legal claimants, but we ask you to be
generous in your conduct towards a public servant." Now he
told the Right Hon. and Learned 14entleman that be ought
to be just before he was generous.—( Hear, hear.) No man
had a right to be generous with the public money. That was
a doctrine which he never could admit, acting in his capacity
of trustee of the public.—( Hear, bear.) Supposing, then,
that Lord Canterbury appealed to them in farina pauperis,
what could be produced to establish such a demand ? " Now
I want to know," said the Honourable Member, " why should
we be generous ?—( Laughter.) Why should we give away the
money of the people unjustly, and establish the precedent
of partiality ? I repudiate altogether the right of any Mem-
ber of Parliament to be generous.—( Renewed laughter.)
Of the urbanity and impartiality of the late Speaker it is un-
necessary to say more than that every Member, young and old,
preserves a strong sense of them; and as for me I have ever
bad kind and generous feelings towards him.—( Laughter and
cheers.) That generosity shall not, however, be exercised at
the expense of the people.—( Hear, hear.) He was, in the
present circumstances of the case, compelled to ask, what
right had Lord Canterbury to appeal to the generosity of the
public ? His office was worth 7,000/. a year, with house and
every convenience.—(Laughter.) The Noble Lord then re-
tired—( Renewed laughter)—on an allowance of 4,0001. a
year, whilst his son would gain, under a Bill to which he had
in that House given the most strenuous opposition, and which
was forced through Parliament in the most unusual manner,
a sinecure in the Prerogative Court of Canterbury of
10,0001. a year. If any individual, therefore, received full
and ample compensation for his public services it was Lord
Canterbury.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. PE ASE was convinced, by much consideration of this
case, he ought to support a proposition similar to that which
was now submitted ; and, under all its circumstances, he
saw no reason for changing that opinion. —( Opposition
cheers. )
Mr. F. BARING could not admit that those who served that
House should be favoured beyond those public officers who were
not equally fortunate in point of emolument or of the distinction
of their position. He knew of cases of great hardship which
occurred with respect to persons in public situations. He
would mention one—the destruction of the Kent East India-
Imam After the occurrence of that event the officers were
told that they could not receive anything but what, upon a
strict calculation of their services, they were entitled to. He
felt bound to declare that the claim urged was not established.
Colonel SIBTHORP fully agreed with the view taken
upon this subject by the Hon. Member for Durham (Mr.
Pease.)

Sir R. P E L--- He must in the first place state his sin.
core conviction that the opposition given by her present Ma-
jesty's Government to the present motion was free from the
alloy of any
political feeling, but that it was offered under
the impression that imperative duty required them to act as
they had done.—( Hear.) He was desirous of removing a
prejudice to the consideration of this claim which was attempted
to be raised by the Hon. Member for Bridport. The consi-
deration of that point had nothing whatever to do with the
matter properly before the House but as the Hon. Member
had thought proper to attach to it the epithet "job," and, as if
this term applied, he was, as forming part of the Administra-
tioni when the transaction took place, more or less mplicated
in it, he begged the indulgence of the House for a few mo-
ments while he endeavoured to place it in its true light. Pre-
viously to the coronation of George IV., certain rooms at-
tache 1 to the Houses of Parliament being royal property, and
furnished by the Crown, were attached to the official residence
of the Speaker, and were by him used as reception rooms for the
House of Commons when they visited him. They did not in the

slightest degree contribute to the comfort of the Speaker, but en
state occasions were, as well as the furniture, used by him when
holding levees. During the coronation of George IV., these
rooms were occupied by the Crown, and upon its conclu-
sion the Great Chambei lain laid claim to the furniture; and
upon an investigation of his demand by the Court of Claims
it was awarded to him. Lord Canterbury (the then Speaker)
instead of going to the Treasury and complaining that he
had been deprived of the use of the furniture, and urging
that he could not, in its absence, entertain the House of
Commons as he bad been accustomed to do or call upon them
to repurchase the property, generoualy determined upon
making a sacrifice to keep up his state, and, without referring
to any party, stepped forward to purchase the furniture from
the Great Chamberlain. The Parliament Houses were
burned, and all that remained after the fire was this very
furniture so purchased by Lord Canterbury. Seeing this,
the Treasury, taking into consideration all the circumstances
—considering, in the first place, that for a long period the
Speaker of the House of Commons, virtute ojficii, bad
had the care of this furniture, and that upon its being
declared after the coronation ro longer the property of
the Crown but of the Great Chamberlain, he had purchased
it, not for his own comfort, but to enable him to receive the
House of Commons as he had been accustomed—the Trea-
sury determined, not upon giving Lord Canterbury the price
he had paid for them, but upon having them valued by an
upholsterer, and then giving him for them the sum which
this person should decide as being their actual worth. Now
in how far this transaction deserved the term job he left to the
House to decide.—( Hear, hear.) With respect to the ease
under the consideration of the House, it would be affectation
in him not to deny that he thought it one of coasiderable
difficulty. Thus much he would say, that had Lord Canter-
bury scught to remain in the office of Speaker, or had he
continued in it without the expression of any wish to be per-
mitted to retire, and, having insured for fifteen years, had
discontinued without any visible motive, he did not think be
would have any valid claim. —( Hear, hear.) He admitted
that the strong point against the claim was the discontinuance
of the insurance. Unfortunately, during this very year of
discontinued insurance the fire took place, not originating, be
it observed, in the Speaker's house, but in a distant part of
the building ; and the property having been destroyed, Lord
Canterbury thought proper to present the matter to the
House, not as a claim of right, but as the claim of the first
servant of the House of Commons, praying for its generous
consideration of his case. He (Sir Robert Heel) felt dis-
posed warmly to support the claim.—( Cries of " Ilear,
hear.) It appeared to him that the House of Commons
stood completely in the situation of the Crown, and Lord
Canterbury in that of a servant of the Crown, and he saw no
more reason of by the one should receive compensation in such
A case as the present more than the other. The Right Hon.
Baronet concluded by expressing his intention to vote for the
proposed Committee.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL was glad to perceive,
from the speech of the Right Hon. Baronet who had preceded
him, that the question of right in the case under consideration
was abandoned, and that it now stood in the only position it
could reasonably present itself, namely, as an appeal to the
generosity of the House. It was a very easy thing to be
generous with other people's money; but he feared the public
would be a little suspicious of the disinterestedness of the
House should they find that a different measure of justice was
dealt out to Lord Canterbury, on the ground that he was a
servant of the House, than that which the Government was
almost every day, on equally if not better founded cases, met-
ing to humbler individuals. Hid the fire taken place imme-
diately after he had been invited to return to the chair by
Lords Grey and Althorp, and before he had etime to arrange
himself in the office, then the case would be different : but, as
it was, a long period had been allowed to elapse, and even at
the time the fire did take place the Noble Lord was not con-
templating carrying into effect his retirement. It was for
this reason he had come to the conclusion that there had been
such neglect on the part of Lord Canterbury as disentitled
him to the favourable consideration of the House, and he,
therefore, would resist the motion which his }lon. Friend had
introduced.
The House then divided—
For the motion
Against it
Majority
SCHOOLS of PUBLIC FOUNDATION in IRELAND

163
173

On our return to the gallery we found Mr. W YSE on his
legs moving the renewal of the Select Committee to Inquire
into Schools of Public Foundation in Ireland.

After few words from Mr. SI-I A W the motion was agreed to.
Mr. WYSE then proposed the names of the Members of the
Committee.

Mr. GOULBURN observed that it was of the utmost im-
portance that such a Committee should be impartially consti-
tuted ; and he put it to the Hon. Gentleman whether such was
the case wish respect to the names he had mentioned?
After a few words from Mr. HOME, Mr. WYSE, and Sir R.
INGLIS, the appointment of the names of the Committee was
postponed until to-morrow.
THE BATTLE OF THE DIAMOND.

Colonel VERNE R rose, and said—The indulgence of this
House has always been manifested towards any one of its Mem-
bers who had anything of a personal nature to complain of.
Encouraged by this generous and always conceded indulgence
—( Hear) —I come forward reluctantly to trespass upon its
time and crave its attention—( Hear)—while I endeavour to
relieve myself from a temporary stigma cast upon my charac-
ter and conduct, which, if merited, would render me unworthy
of addressing you from this place, and unfit me for the high
honour conferred upon me by those whom I represent here
Sir, I need hardly remind the H :us,: that I have been lately
deprived, by the Irish Government, of the Deputy Lieu-
tenancy of the county of Tyrone, and of the Commission of
the Peace for that county, an office which I had held for
upwards of three-and-thirty years ; the reason assigned by
the Government for that deprivation being, that I had pro-
posed, to a number of my friends whom I entertained, by spe-
cial invitation, at dinner, after my late election, as a toast,
" The Battle of the Diamond." The toast was not a new one
—was not one given at my table for the first time—but one
which had for nearly half a century been proposed and cheered
in very many of the convivial meetings inthat part of the country.
It was a local t,,ast, but one well known in the county of Ar-
magh and the adjoining counties, and which had been current,
uncensured and unrebuked, from September, 1793, up to Au-
gust last. I am, therefore, bound, not merely fur the credit of
myself, or of my friends who were assembled at my table, but for
the credit of all belonging to the county I have the honour to
represent who have so often pledged that toast, to show to
the House, and to inform the Government of Ireland of the
true character and qualities of those whom they have incon-
siderately and unwarrantably designated as a " lawless and
disgraceful mob." And here I must observe, that this is not a
question of orange and green, of Protestant and Roman
Catholic, but it is a question between the unpaid independent
magistracy of Ireland on the one hand, and an unconstitutional
and tyrannical exercise of the Executive authority on the
other.—( Cheers.) I shall now proceed to read the letter of
Mr. Secretary Drummond—the first communication I had
upon the subject :

" Dublin Castle, August 22, 1837.
" Sir—lt appearing in the Newry Teleoraph o the 10th
instant, that at an election dinner given by you on the 7.h,
one of the toasts was The Battle of the Diamond,' lam
directed by his Exc.llenc?, now that the elections are all ter-
minated, to desire that you will inform him whether it can be
possible that you were thus a party to the commemoration of a
lawless and most disgraceful conflict, in which much of the
blood of :your fellow-subjects was spilt, and the immediate
consequence of which was, as testified at the time by all the
leading men and magistrates of your county, to place that part
of the country at the mercy of an ungovernable mob.—l have
the honour to be, Sir, your most obedient humble servant,

T. DRUMMOND.

" To Lieut.-Colonel Verner, Churchillf Moy."
This is the letter which I receiv,d from Mr. Drummond, and
I submit it to the judgment of the house ; and I ask, is it a
letter such as ought to have been written? Is it a letter to
which a calm answer could be returned ?—(I-lear, hear.) I
shall make no further comment upon it now. The letter of
the Noble Lord the Secretary for Irelrnd, which I shall pre-
sently read, will supply the best comment upon it.—(Hear.)
I shall now read my answer _ _ .

Carlton Club, London, Aug. 29, 1837.
" Sir—l have received a letter, dated August 22, bearing
your signature, and inquiring of me, by the direction of his
Excellency, whether it is possible that I was a party to the
commemoration of a lawless and most disgraceful conflict, in
which much of the blood of my fellow-subjects was spilt, and
the immediate consequence of which was, as testified at the
time by all the leading men and magistrates of your county,
to place that part of the country at the mercy of an ungovern-
able mob ?'

" I am disposed to think that, when you put a question in a
form like this, you can hardly expect, onicool reflection, that I
should condescend to answer it—at least, I would imagine
you could expect no other answer than one which I hold su-
perfluous, namely, that I am not capable of being a party to
the commemoration of anything lawless and disgraceful.' I
would request, if I am ever again to be favoured by a ques-
tion which you are directed to propose, that it may be ex-
pressed in terms better calculated to invite an answer, and
more likely, also, to be understood. I must say that your
letter does not appear to me very intelligible.
" His Excellency seems to assume that the appearance of a
statement in a public newspaper authorises a call upon me to
contradict or confirm it. I do not feel myself at liberty to do
either. I had the honour to entertain several of my friends
at dinner on the day to which. your letter refers. I am bold
to affirm that at that entertainment nothing took place which
loyal and honourable men would hesitate to avow most frankly.
But I speak, I am confident, the sentiments of my friends,
and of every gentleman whose feeedom is not restrained by
official station, when I say that a question like this in your
letter ought not to be proposed to me, and that I am bound to
decline replying to it."
I pass over a few sentences, in which I complain of some
slanderous observations made in a paper, the supposed organ
of the Castle of Dublin, and I come to a paragraph to which
I would beg the attention of the House, as it has been tortured
by the most perverse ingenuity into a meaning which I defy
any straightforward intellect to give it :
" Upon the various misrepresentations, unintentional I have
no doubt, which your letter contains, I have no desire to com-
ment. I feel it necessary only to assure you that, of all the
conflicts, and they are, unhappily, numerous, which took place
at any of the various places called by the name of Diamond,' i
in the county of Armagh, there is none to which your descr p-
tion is, in the least degree, applicable."
I disclaim for the conflict which I commemorated, and for every
other of the same name and nature, the opprobrious character
which the Irish Government of the present day have been
taught to affix to it. I now come to the letter of the Noble
Lord, the Secretary for Ireland, who, it will appear, had re-
ceived
my reply to Mr. Secretary Drummond's letter, and
submitted it to the Lord Lieutenant.—(The Hon. and Gal-

lent Member then read the Noble Lord's letter.) The Noble
Lord here describes the course invariably adopted by the
Government, when addressing an inquiry to a gentleman
holding the Commission of the Peace, Two questions, he
says, are addressed to them. The first, bas a certain act im-
puted to them been committed ? The second, have they any
explanation to offer ? This was not the course pursued to-
wards me. I was told an act was highly criminal, and then
asked had I committed it.—(Hear, hear.) These are he
words .—" I am directed by his Excellency to desire that you
will inform him whether it can be possible that you were a party
to the commemoration of a lawless and disgraceful conflict," &c.
To which I replied, " I am not capable of being a party to
the commemoration of anything lawless and disgraceful."
This is my answer—it does not appear to have given the Noble
Lord satisfaction. I can only say it would have been far
more gratifying to me to hare had an opportunity of framing
my answer differently, but I could not, after the fullest consi-
deration, reply in any other spirit. Had I said " Yes," I ad-
mitted that I was guilty of commemorating what was " law-
less and disgraceful." Had I said " No," I should appear to
equivocate, as if I had denied the fact of the toast, when I
only meant to deny the description given to it by the Noble
Lord at the bead of the Dish Government.—(Hear, hear.)
This manifesto of the Noble Lord did not appear to me at the
time to require any answer from me. The greater part of it
consisted, as I have already said, of a laboured effort to draw
an analogy between a private party and a public procession,
and in an endeavour to pervert my meaning, as :f I was my-
self ignorant what battle of the Diamond I intended propos-
ing; and it ended by telling me that " his Excellency deemed
it expedient to recommend to the Lord Chancellor that I
should not be included in the new commission of the peace
about to be issued ;" and also directed that my name
should be omitted from the revised list of Deputy Lieute-
nants for the county Tyrone. Had I supposed for one mo-
ment that this letter required any reply from me, I should
not have bepn so deficient in courtesy to the Noble Lord
as not to have given it an immediate answer. This was
conclusive. I shall now proceed with my statement. The
Noble Lord may recollect the state of England sufficiently
well at the period to which I have alluded, to render it unne-
cessary for me to remind him what it was. Struggling against
the designs of foreign and domestic enemies, engaged in an
expensive war, suffering under a scarcity of grain, and an ac-
cumulation of taxes, her people excited by dangerous associ-
ations, the very life of the King attempted, she was unable
to give to Ireland that military assistance which " secret and
treasonable associations of dangerous extent and malignity"
from within, and a threatened invasion from without, impera-
tively called for. For the state of Ireland I shall refer the
Noble Lord to documents ready at his hands of a public na-
ture and indisputable evidence ; or, if the Noble Lord would
prefer the authority of writers not favourable to Protestant or
Conservative principles as to the state of Armagh in the year
1795, he will find the facts proved in the trial of Jackson.
He will find them noticed in the memoirs of Wolfe Tone,
and confessed by M'lrwin and Emmett. However, the Noble
Lord will find in the speeches of the Lord Lieutenant to both
Houses of Parliament in the year 1796, that there existed then
in Ireland " secret and treasonable associations of dangerous ex-
tent and malignity ;" that it was " the scene of insurrection
and of outrage ;" and that the King had been obliged to
direct an addition to be made to the regular forces in Ireland
by troops sent from Great Britain. The Noble Lord will
find in an Act of the same year that during the year 1795
"several parts of Ireland were disturbed by treasonable insur-
rections of persons assuming the name of Defenders ;" in
another, that "traitorous insurrections had arisen, principally
promoted and supported by persons associating under the pre-
tended obligation of oaths unlawfully administered ;" in a
third, that "it was necessary, in order to deter men from en-
tering into conspiracies to murder, to increase the punishment
of persons convicted of such horrid crimes ;" and in a fourth,
that " tumultuous risings had of late happened in Ireland, and
that the persons engaged therein bad practised various secret
contrivances for being supplied with and keeping arms and
ammunition." This shows to the Noble Lord, on the one hand, a
secret, extensive, armed, and organised confederacy, pillaging,
destroying, burning, murdering—and, on the otaer, a Govern-
ment willing, perhaps, but unable—few troops, no police, no
yeomanry. In this state of things was it "lawless and dis-
graceful"—was it deserving of blame and stigma—for the
well-disposed to take up arms on behalf of " the security of
property and the preservation of tranquillity and good order ?"
The Lord- Lieutenant of the present day, at his ease, and
with England and its whole army at its back, may say so ; but
so did not say the Lord-Lieutenant of that day.—( Loud
cheers.) My father, in his own county, where he resided,
Armagh, and in the adjoining county, Tyrone, where he also
possessed property, with his brother Magistrates, entered into
resolutions, which were unanimously approved of and warmly
recommended to be adopted in the different towns and parishes
throughout the country by the Magistrates, whose names were
affixed to them, at the Quarter Sessions held at Dungannon on
the 15th of July, 1796. In this spirit, and acting upon these
resolutions, my father presented himself to the Lord-Lieute-
nant at the head of a list of several hundred men, of whom
some of the first yeomanry corps were formed. I need hardly
add, that amongst them were many of that small but gallant
band who, at the Battle of the Diamond, associated themselves
upon the side of the King and his Government for " the
security of property, and the preservation of tranquillity
and good order."—(Loud cheers.) The " ungovernable
mob," including my old friend, who favoured me with
his company at my dinner, and whose name I coupled
wd.h the toast, were, " under his Majesty's authority,"
enrolled in yeomanry corps, and gallantly, faithfully, arid
fearlessly did their duty to their King arid to their country
as soldiers.—( Loud cheers.) I ask the Noble Lord were the
yeomanry of Armagh an " ungovernable mob" when the
French invaded Ireland? Were they an "ungovernable
mob" when the rebellion of 1798 broke out ? Were they an
‘• ungovernable mob" in the rebellion of 1803 ? When the
Lord Chief Justice (Lord Kelverden) was butchered in the
streets of Dublin, did England look upon the yeomanry of
Ireland as an "ungovernable mob," when both Huuses of
Parliament, upon two occasions, passed a unanimous vote
of thanks to them for the services they bad rendered to their
coui try ? And were these in whose honour I proposed
the toast an " ungovernable mob," and was their conduct
" 'aaless and and disgraceful" from the time they took up arms
oluntarily, the 21st of Septembe, 1793, until they laid them
tiown to be replaced by n.itv ones under a Whig Governmer t
in 1831? I must now beg leave to call the attention of the
Noble Lord to a very few short testimonials, in order to let his
Lordship see the opinions entertained by the Government and
thosa in authority at that pct iol of the " ungovernable mob"
who constituted the yeomanry of Ireland. Upon the 16th
of January, 1797, I find the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland ad-
dressing both Houses of Parliament in these terms :—" I have
b. he'd with pleasure the zeal and alacrity of his Majesty's re-
gu'ar military forces, and the prompt and honourable exertions
of the yeomanry corps, whose decided utility has been so abun-
dantly displayed. I have not failed to represent to his Majesty
this meritirious conduct of his faithful subjects in Ireland, and
am expressly commanded to convey them his cordial acknow-
ledgament and thanks." Again, upon the 18th of March, in
the same yea-, the Lord Lieutenant thus address the House of
Commons :—" The dangers and daring outrages committed in
m.ny parts of the province of Ulster, evidently perpetrated
with a view to supersede the laws, and prevent the administra-
tion of justice, by an organized system of murder and robbery,
have lately increased to so daring a degree in some parts of
that province as to bid defiance to toe exertions of the civil power
and to endanger Vie lives and properties of his Majesty's sub-
jects in that part of the kingdom." On the 17th of May in the
same year we find a proclamation by the Lord-Lieutenant and
Council in Dublin, to this effect:—" That there exists within
this kingdom a seditious and traitorous conspiracy, by a
number of persons styling themselves United Irishmen.
That they have frequently assembled in large armed bodies,
and plundered of arms the houses of many of his Majes-
ty's loyal subjects in different parts of the kingdom, and
cut down and carry away great numbers of trees, where-
with to make handles for pikes and other offensive weapons
to arm their treacherous associates, and have audaciously at-
temp'ed to disarm the district yeomanry corps enrolled under
his Aiajeaty's commission for the defence of the realm. We
do hereby strictly charge and command all our officers, civil
and military, and all other of his Majesty's loving subjects, to
use their utmost endeavours to discover all pikes, pike-heads,
concealed guns, and swords, offensive weapons, or ammunition
of any kind whatsoever. And we do hereby strictly charge
and command all officers, civil and military, and all other his
Majesty's faithful subjects, to be aiding and assisting in sup-
tressing all treacherous, tumultuous, and unlawful assemblies,
and in bringing to punishment all persons disturbing or at-
tempting to disturb the public peace."
Notwithstanding the impatience of some Hon. Gentlemen
opposite who seem unwilling to hear me, I must trespass
further upon the attention of the House and the Noble Lord
by reading two or three circulars issued about that period.
The first is dated " Dublin Castle, August 25, 1797," and is
marked " Circular :"

Sir—His Excellency has directed me to express in the
strongest terms the very high sense he entertains of the exer-
tions which have been so conspicuously and so universally
displayed by the district corps in preserving the tranquillity
of their several districts. W. ELLIOT."
The next is dated Dublin Castle, December 18, 1797, and
is also marked " Circular :"

Sir—l have his Excellency's particular injunctions to
convey in the warmest terms to yourself and to the officers and
privates under your command, his high approbation of the zeal
which you have manifested by your regular and assiduous at-
tention to your military duty, and which is no less honourable
to yourselves than it has been conducive to the protection and
security of your country.

" PELHAM."
To the letter I am now about to read I would beg the at-
tention of the House, because it is addressed to Captain At-
kinson, a Gentleman who resided not more than half a mile
from where the " Battle of the Diamond" was fought, and
who commanded the Crawthill Corps of Yeomanry, the
greater part of whom had been engaged in that conflict :--
" Armagh, Sept. 5, 1793.
" Sir—l am desired by Major-General Goldie to know
from you what number of loyal men you can bring forward,
yeomanry
case
standing of necessity,
orders
to join
as ourcorps, and act under the
supernumerary
men, and for
whom you think you can be responsible.
" H. ARCHDALE, M.B.
" Directed to Captain Atkinson, &c."
I have already informed the house that, upon two occa-
sions, a vote of thanks to the yeomanry of Ireland passed both
Houses of Parliament. Upon one of those occasions it was
accompanied by an order of the House, which I shall read :
" That there be laid before it a return of all corps, &c., in or-
der that such return may be entered on the Journals of the
House, and the patriotic example of such voluntary exertions
be transmitted to posterity. "J. Lay."
The Battle of the Diamond took place before I was of suffi-
cient age to take part in it,. but I have a full recollection of
the state of the country at that period, and I knew the course

of life, the character and the loyal and constitutional princi-
ples of the gallant and respectable gentleman who at my table
represented them who took the side of "good order" and of
the King at the battle of the Diamond, and the whole tenor of
his life and character, and those principles forbade me to be-
lieve that he would have been a participator in anything " law-
less and disgraceful." It might be supposed that in bring-
ing that gentleman forward I was subjecting him to the
vindictiveness of the Government, and putting him in the way
of punishment. I shall, therefore, refer the Noble Lord,
who does not seem to be deeply read in the narratives of those
times, to an Act of Parliament, which will show him that
those who took part in the endeavour to preserve the peace
of the country in those days ran no risk, and which bears most
materially upon the Battle of the Diamond. It is the
36th of Geo. 111. chap. 6, passed early in the year 1796,
a few months after the affair of the Diamond. It says,
" Whereas during the year 1795, several parts of the king-
dom were disturbed by treasonable insurrections of persons
assuming the name of Defenders, and the lives and proper-
ties of many peaceable and faithful subjects destroyed,
and several of his Majesty's Justices of the Peace and other
officers and persons, in order to preserve the public peace, the
lives and properties of his Majesty's faithful subjects, and to
suppress and put an end to such transactions have apprehended
several criminals, &c., and without due authority have sent
others accused and suspected persons out of the kingdom, and
also seized arms, and entered into the houses and possessions
of several persons, and done other acts not justifiable by law
—(" Hear, hear," from the Ministerial benches)—but which
were yet so much for the public service, and so necessary for
the suppression of such insurrections, and for the preserva-
tion of the public peace, that the persons by whom they were
transacted ought to be indemnified.—(" Hear, hear," from the
Opposition.) "Be it therefore enacted," &c. This is the
law the Parliament thought proper to enact a few months
after the Battle of the Diamond, for the protection of those
who had came forward upon that and similar occasions
"to preserve the public peace, the lives and pro-
perties of his Majesty's faithful subjects ;" and yet, Sir, in
violation of that law, and in the face of that Act of Parlia-
ment, the Government in Ireland have denounced me for corn-
morating what the Legislature of that day pronounced to
be " so much for the public service, so necessary for the sup-
pression of insurrection, and for the preservation of the public
peace."—( Hear, hear.) I have thought it becoming me to
say thus much, and to say it in this place, as a defence against
the insult and attempted degradation, which, c,nning from the
high quarter it did, was not to be defended at a public meet-
ing, a dinner table, or through the medium of the public
press. --( Hear, hear.) I conceive I owed it to the dignity of
this House, of which I have the honour to be a Member, and
to the preservation of my own character, to stand up in my
place and say that I am not a commemorator of anything that
" lawless and disgraceful."—(Loud cheers.) Were the
ate of Ireland again, which God forbid, such as it was
in 1795, and were there arrayed on the one side secret as-
saciations, traitors, and rebels, and on the other zealous

persons who, to preserve the peace, had ass'embled in arms,
I should not hesitate which side to take, certain that though

is the estimation of the advisers of the present Irish Govern-
ment I acted " lawlessly and disgracefully," the wise, and
just, and good, would say that my conduct, though not per.
haps in strict accordance with law, was so necessary, and so
_

much for the public good, that it deserved no blame.--( Hear.)
I have now no hesitation in assuring the House that I had
not the remotest intention of proposing as a toast " The Battle
of the Diamond." It was not upon my list of toasts, and it
was not until after at least two-thirds of these who honoured

me with their company at dinner had left the house, and I
was about to retire myself, that the toast was given—when.
observing a gentlemen in the room who was at the Diamond
conflict, and whose name I had heard coupled for so many
years with that event, I did out of compliment to him
propose the toast, never intending the slightest offence, or
supposing it could be made the subject of animadversion.—
(Hear, hear.) Now, with regard to the public press, I think
it only fair to tell the House that there was no reporter pre-
sent. —( Hear.) A respectable gentleman of the county con-
nected with the press was amongst my guests—( Hear, hear,
from the Ministerial benches.) But he came because he was
specially invited, the same as any other gentleman.--( Hear,
hear, from the Opposition benches.) But as the Noble Lord
and the Under Secretary have so pointedly alluded to the
newspaper report, I conceive I have a❑ equal right to do so,
and what do I find 1 " The Battle of the Diamond" was the
very last toast given, followed immediately by this observa-
tion :—" At this period (half-past twelve) Colonel Venter re-
tired."—( Hear.) I could not then have remained only for
the purpose of giving that toast.—( Hear.) In giving this
candid and true explanation, and which I would have given at
the first had it been required of me in less unbecoming terms,
I beg I may not be understood as intending, by the admission
thus made, to convey the impression that I consider the toast
one, the commemoration of which ought to be objected to by
any loyal subject, but as one, like many others, which has been
wilfully perverted and misrepresented.—( Cheers ) The Hon.
and Gall tut Gentleman concluded by moving for " a Copy of
the Correspondence between her Majesty's Government in
Ireland and Colonel Verner, with respect to his removal from
the offices of Deputy- Lieutenant and Justice of the Peace for
the county of Tyrone."
Lord AI ORPE TH said the Hon. and Gallant Gentleman
had himself intimated, and indeed a further evidence of the
fact was afforded by his speech of this evening, that sufficient
publicity had already been attached to these transactions ;
and be might also observe that some vacancies which-met his
eyes on the benches opposite, seemed to say that there were
others who entertained his opinion.—( A laugh and cheers.)
He had no objection to the production of the papers for which
the Hon. and Gallant Gentleman had moved ; but having so
said, he hoped he should be allowed to make a few comments
on the observations nth which the Hon. and Gallant Gentle-

man had accompanied his motion. In the first place, how-
ever, he begged to declare than at the present moment, as
well as at the period of the transaction itself, he experienced
sincere regret at having been put in a situation in which he
felt himself called on to act in a manner that might seem un-
gracious and harsh towards a gentleman whose personal honour
and whose conduct in all the relations of private life had
always been undisputed, and who as a private individual
he had ever held in high estimation. So much as to what was
merely personal between them. He would now address him-

self to the question itself. As regarded the Battle of the
Diamond, the Hon. and Gallant Gentleman objected to the
terms of the letter originally written to him by the Under-
Secretary, Mr. Drummond, wherein that gentleman asked
him whether he had given the objectionable toast, and whether
he had assisted at the dinner. If, however, the House com-
pared the letter written by Mr. Drummond with the reply to
that letter written by the Hon. and Gallant Gentleman, he
thought there could be but one opinion as to which was prefe-
rable for correctness of language and general propriety of
style,—( Hear, hear.) But the Hon. and Gallant Gentlemen
contended that the Battle of the Diamond having been de-
scribed in the letter as "a lawless and disgraceful conflict," en
being asked if he had given the toast, he was called on to ad-
mit he had been guilty of an act that was discreditable to him-
self. Now, in his (Lord Morpeth's) opinion, the Hon. and
Gallant Gentleman was bound to afford the information
required of him as to the simple matter of fact, whatever might
have been his individual opinion on the subject.--( Hear, hear. )
He thought they had a right to expect that when the re-
presentative of the Sovereign demanded an explanation of a
gentleman holding the Commission of the Peace, his answer
would be explicit, with some appearance of deference, and
that at least it would be addressed to the point at issue, in-
stead of deviating into matters contained in the Dublin
Evening Post, which he called the organ of the Irish Go-
vernment; but he begged to assure the Honourable and
Gallant Gentleman that for no expression in that journal was
the Government in any way responsible. The Honourable
and Gallant Gentleman complained of the use made of cer-
tain expressions in his letter iu allusion to the conflicts that
had taken place in the neighbourhood of the Diamond. He
was glad to find that the Honourable and Gallant Gentle-
man did not intend to raise any doubt on that subject, be-
cause when he spoke of all the conflicts—and unhappily
numbers had taken place in the county of Armagh—it did
seem as if he wished to distract attention, by the multipli-
city of those transactions, from what Colonel Blacker called
that " great day, the 21st of September." But if there
were in the same neighbourhood several conflicts in which
blood was shed, then surely the case of the Government
against the Honourable and Gallant Gentleman was greatly
aggravated. He would carry the House as quickly as he could
over the historical facts, but he would ask whether he had not
received some provocation from the speech of the Hon. and
Gallant Gentleman to enter a little into details?—( Hear, hear. )
For some time previous to the Battle of the Diamond, the ad-
jacent country had been the scene of repeated conflicts between
the two parties, one of them composed of what were called
" the Peep-of-day Boys," consisting of Protestants and Presb-
yterians, and the other party consisting of Roman Catholics.
The most painful excesses were the result of their respective
hostilities. Now, he was not curious to ascertain the fact,
nor did he desire to contend that in the actual affray, which
went by the name of " The Battle of the Diamond," the de-
fenders were the Roman Catholic party—he believed that for
that day they were not the defenders, but the aggressors.
But assuming that it was quite clear they were the aggres-
sors, it appeared equally plain that they were the sole suf-
ferers. What was the account given by Colonel Blacker, a
witness of the transaction ? In his examination before the
Orange Lodge Court, he was asked the following questions,
and gave the following answers :
What did you see at the Diamond ?—When I got up I
saw the Defenders making off in one direction, and the firing
had nearly ceased, I may say had ceased except a droppixg
shot or two, and I saw a number of dead bodies.

" Can you state about the number ?—No : they were con-
veying them away on cars in different directions, so that I
could not make an exact calculation.

~ Were there fifty ?—No : if there were thirty killed, that
was the outside.

Were there any Protestants killed?—Not that I could
hear of."

Impute what they would to the Roman Catholics, talk as
they might of their bad faith and treachery, say what they
would of their provocation, he asked whether, by all the blood
that had been shed, sufficient atonement had not been made,
and if the period of forty years was not time enough to obli-
terate the recollection of those unfortunate proceedings ?
(Much cheering.) Was this to be so, he would say—
" satin jam pridem sanguine nostro
Laomedontm luimus perjuria Trojw."
—(Hear, hear, hear.) Was such a result as that which he
had described a fitting object for commemoration or for toasts
at moments of convivial congratulation ?—( Hear, hear.) Was
it the best means of promoting peaceful habits and a respect
for the laws in the minds of those among whom were many of
the descendants and some of the sufferers on that sanguinary
occasion? The Battle of the Diamond took place on the
21st of September, 1795, and the state of the county of Ar-
magh, a short time afterwards, was described as follows at the

FIRST MEETING OF THE MAGISTRATES OF THE COUNTY OF
ARMAGH, OCT. 19, 1795.
" Whereas the peace of this county has been and continues
to bb disturbed by mobs of riotous and disorderly persons, who
assemble in considerable bodies, attack the houses of well-dis-
posed inhahitants, and rob them of arms, money, and other
matters of property,"
SECOND MEETING, OCT. 26, 1795.
" As we find that bodies of armed men still continue to
parade through different parts of this country, both by day and
night, committing great outrages, and disturbing the peaceable
inhabitants."
Resolutions signed, and subscription entered into, by
GOSFORD,
WILLIAM ARMAGH, the Primate,
CIIARLEMONT,
CAPEL MOLYNEUX,
W. BROWNLOW,
H. HAMILTON, Dean of Armagh, after Bishop of
Ossory,
W. HISSETT, after Bishop of Raphoe,
JAMES VERNER (it is stated), &c. &c. —( Cheers. )
The next extract be should read was from the Earl of Gos
ford's address, as Chairman of the Quarter Sessions of the
County of Armagh, on the 21st December, 1795. Lord Gos-
ford said—" Gentlemen—lt is no secret that a persecution.
accompanied with all the circumstances of ferocious cruelty
which have in all ages distinguished the dreadful calamity, is
now raging in this county.—(Cheers.) Neither age nor
sex, nor even acknowledged innocence as to any guilt in the
late disturbances, is sufficient to excite mercy, much less to
afford protection. —(Loud cheers.) The only crime which
the wretched objects of this ruthless persecution are charged
with is a crime, indeed, of easy proof ; it is simply a profes-
sion of the Roman Catholic faith, or an intimate connection
with a person professing that faith.—(Hear, hear.) A lawless
banditti—(Loud cheers)—have constituted themselves judges
of this new species of delinquency, and the sentence they have
pronounced is equally concise and terrible ; it is nothing less
than a confiscation of all property, and an immediate banish-
ment. It would be extremely painful, and surely unneces-
sary, to detail the horrors that attend the execution of so
wide and tremendous a proscription—a proscription that
certainly exceeds in the comparative number of those it con-
signs to ruin and misery every example that ancient or modern
history can supply ; for where have we heard, or in what his-
tory of human cruelties have we read, of more than half the
inhabitants of a populous country deprived at one blow of the
means as well as the fruits of their industry, and driven, in the
midst of an inclement season, to seek a shelter for themselves
and their helpless families where chance may guide them ?"
( Loud cheering.) Such was this Noble Earl's opinion of the
state of the country two or three months after the Battle of
the Diamond, and such was the description he gave as being
the situation in which this illustrious conflict placed it.—
( Cheers.) He could not refer to the distinguished name of
Mr. Grattan without alluding to the fervid eloquence in which
he clothed his ideas ; and on this subject he found gentlemen
who generally differed from that distinguished man in debate
agree with him. In this same debate he was followed on the
same side by Mr. Maurice Fitzgerald, then, as now, Knight of
Kerry—( A laugh) :—" Mr. Fitzgerald (Knight of Kerry)
could not reconcile it to himself to remain silent at the state-
ment made by the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Grattan) of
the outrages which had occurred in the county of Armagh.
He was sorry to say he must subscribe to it in its fullest ex-
tent. He lamented that in that picture which the Right Hon.
Gentleman had drawn he could trace no exaggeration. It
was, he feared, the melancholy truth that numbers of the un-
offending and peaceable inhabitants of that county had been
expelled from their habitations and their property by the vio-
lence of a bigoted sect ; that there existed in that county, a
furious and unrelenting persecution of a particular denomi-
nation of big Majesty's loyal subjects. * Idle and
nugatory would be good dispositions on the part of the Go-
vernment as long as they continue to be counteracted by those
who must be employed to carry them into effect.—(Cheers.)
It is lamentably the fact, that in the county of Armagh mul-
titudes of families are driven from their homes, the victims of
a dreadful persecution, while the magistracy rest in a kind of
lethargy, supinely indifferent to this outrageous violation of
justice. He deplored that the magistracy should be so blind
to the danger which they were suffering to grow.—(Cheers
and laughter.) He trembled at the pernicious effect of mixing
any religious prejudices with the distractions which already
agitated the kingdom. There was no man so ignorant but must
be aware of the poisonous acrimony which religion adds to
any contest in which it shall mingle ; nor can any man, in the
utmost scope of speculation, calculate the horrors to which
that conduct may give birth, which would infuse into the
agi-
tations of this country a spirit of bigoted religious animosity.
A reform in the conduct of the magistracy is the remedy for
the peculiar evil alluded to, and no legislative act, no exer-
tion on the part of Government, would have any effect unless
that magistracy would concur in the impartial administration
of its laws."—( Long continued cheers.) Whether such was
the case at present he would leave to Mr. Maurice Fitzge-
rald to determine, who,, no doubt, entertained the same
opinions now that be formerly so eloquently expressed.—( Loud
cheering, and laughter.) This gentleman was followed by
Mr. William Smith, who afterwards filled the high situa-
tion of Baron of his Majesty's Exchequer in Ireland.
He did not think that an incorrect description of the Battle of
the Diamond was given by Mr. Secretary Drummond when
he called it a lawless scene of outrage. He went on to say—
" Acts had been committed shocking to human nature; cruel-
ties that would disgrace savages had been perpetrated in the
county of Armagh. Perhaps these acts had been exaggerated
on both sides ; but, taking them on the mildest representation
they called for the immediate interference of law and exer-
tions of justice. With whom those enormities commenced he
considered as immaterial, for both parties were aggressors
against the law, and both must suffer; however, when the law
was satisfied it would then become a national object, a duty
incumbent on every man who loved his country, to inculcate
on the minds of all parties forgiveness and oblivion."—( Loud
cheers.) The law was satisfied—numerous trials took place
—and there were several capital convictions, and many exe-
cutions took place. The Hon. and Gallant Gentleman said
that he would refer to history as to the state of the county
of Armagh, and undoubtedly the Honourable Member had
referred to certain statements, but not to such as bore on
the state of that county at the period in question. He (Lord
Morpeth ) thought that in the quotations he bad just read he
had supplied this defect. The Hon. Gentleman referred to
the 37th of Geo. 111. ; but from that Act it appeared that the
people who fled from the county of Armagh were not merely
Peep-o'-day-boys or Defenders, but industrious and peaceable
persons. The Hon. Gentleman had referred to the In-
demnity Act of Lord Carhampton ; but he believed that it
was not necessary to attach much importance to that docu-
ment. Thus much, however, he would say with reference to
passing that Itidemnity Bill, that however necessary and
expedient it might be for the Parliament to pass that Act,
it was a thing, from appearances, making it an act of corn-
memoration.—( Cheers.) Such was the state of things which
he had endeavoured to bring under the attention of the
House in a continued series, and he had referred for his
authority to the evidence of magistrates, to law-officers of the
Crown, to lord-lieutenants of counties, to Members of Par--
liament, and even to the Viceroy himself. His proposition
was, and the motive for the letter that was sent to the Hon.
and Gallant Gentleman was, and his defence of the Govern-
ment was then as it now was, that it was not a state of things
—he did not say that should be buried in oblivion, but
erroneously to be referred to, and he believed that the
error was not in intention, but in the judgment of the Hon.
Gentleman ; but it was not wise nor discreet to make it an
object of commemoration and rejoicing on the part of these
whose duty it was to protect the innocent and to punish the
disturbers of the peace—(Cheers)—in such an excited popu-
lation as the inhabitants of the county of Armagh.—( Hear,
hear.) At any rate, where such a toast had been given, and
he regretted to hear that it was constantly given, he thought
that that county should not be made the scene for the enact-
ment of such proceedings, or for giving such toasts as were
given on the occasion of the dinner he had described by the
Hon. and Gallant Member.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. and
Gallant Gentleman said that this was a private party. No
doubt the Hon. Gentleman who invited all the guests paid
the whole of the bill.—(Laughter.) This fact was not dis-
puted ; but it appeared that no reporter was present, but there
was a gentleman present who was connected with a news-
paper, and of course he considered himself authorised to pub-
lish what took place.—(A laugh.) The Hon. Gentleman re-
ferred to what he was pleased to call the conversation that
took place at the dinner-table ; but he for his part must
admit that a more extraordinary conversation he had never
heard of, if the account given of it was correct ; for the
Hon. Member, as well as other gentlemen, made ex-
tremely long speeches, which were loudly cheered, and they
all concluded with toasts, and among others given was the
" Battle of the Diamond."—(Cheers and laughter.) The
Hon. Gentleman said the toast was given by accident, when
most of the party had withdrawn. Now, he had no hesita-
tion in saying, if the Hon. and Gallant Gentleman had
stated this, and had shown any disposition to palliate or
excuse what appeared to the Government to be a matter call-
ing for explanation, the proceeding that night would not have
been necessary, and he would not have had reason to complain
of the alleged rigour of the Government---(Hear, bear.)
He begged the House to recollect that toasts at public din-
ners were not matters of very little importance. It was known
to all those who heard him that a person of much higher rank
and station than the Hon. Gentleman, namely, the Duke of
Norfolk, was turned out of the situation which be held of Lord-
Lieutenant of Yorkshire, for giving as a toast " The sovereignty
of the people."—( Hear.) He did' not intend to defend the
propriety of the toast, nor, on the other hand, the conduct
of the Government that dismissed the Noble Duke. He must
say, however, that the toast of " The sovereignty of the peo-
ple" at any rate admitted of an interpretation to which all
lovers of a limited monarchy, such as existed in this country,
could entertain no objection—(Hear)—and in drinking that
toast they certainly did not gloat on any images of carnage.
George IV., on his return from his visit to Ireland, dictated
a letter in which he strongly condemned the continued
use of party, toasts, and he was thought to refer to the
well-known instance of the " Glorious memory."—(Hear,
hear.) He might object to the toast on the other side
of the water ; but in this country he saw so little ob-
jection to it, as he bad always considered it comme-
morative of a great deliverer, that there could be no pos-
sible harm in drinking it. But this was not the case on the
other side of the water ; for there it was offensive to the
great body of the people, and was considered to involve an
attack upon their religious feelings. The memory, however,
of King William was a very different toast from that of the
" Battle of the Diamond." The former toast was not com-
memorative of a scene of lawless conflict, where man was set
against man, and neighbour against neighbour, and by which
disturbance and desolation were spread throughout the coun-
try. The Hon. and Gallant Member appealed to his conduct
while he hal acted as a Magistrate, and had appealed to the
33 years during which he had held the Commission. He

a
(Lord Morpeth) had already borne testimony to the person
character of the Hon. and Gallant Gentleman ; but be beget:
to remind him that his public character had been brought
question for conduct in his own neighbourhood in 1831, where
a number of houses were wrecked at a place called lalsafr-
hera, in the county of Armagh.—(Hear, hear.) Mr.
geant Perrin was sent down to make inquiry, and he(L?rde-
alorpeth would only read the concluding expresso
of the Report of that Honourable and Learned Gentlemanears :---t
" I am further of opinion that Colonel Verner app no
to have performed his duty as a Magistrate at Vernepr's:
bridge, in order to disperse (as he was bound and req
by law) the persons there tumultuously and unlawfully
assembled, and comel them to depart to their habitations;
that he did not tike the. measures and precautions proper
for that purpose, which he was empowered and required by
law to take, and which the result evinces to have been necess
sary for the preservation of the peace, and the threatened
t
breach thereof; and that he is liable to be prosecuted a
r.
the suit of the Crown by information for such (as it ap-
pears to me) criminal neglect of his duty."—(Loud cheers.)
He had already stated that he lamented that the unplea-
santr
o
duty which they had performed had been reserved f
the Government of Lend Mulgrave. He would not proceed
to rip up old sores. Loud
Colonel VERNER : You are doing so now.—(
cheers from the Opposition.)
Lord Viscount MORPETH—Yes • it became necessary
when the conduct of the Government 'had beer, attacked In
the way in which it had been by the Hon. and Gallant Gentle-
man. He (Lord Morpeth) had a right to show what hads.
been the previous conduct of that Hon. and Gallant Member
himself.—( Loud cheers.) He was bound to say abet without_
any other prelude, or any other matter of debate, the toast of
f
o
the Battle of the Diamond was quite sufficient to justify the
Government in calling for the explanation which they h id donto
from the Hon. and Gallant Gentleman ; but he refused
give any explanation, and appeared to sneer at the Governe-
meat when it was demanded of him. He was perfectly Plals,r,_
pared to leave the conduct of the Government in the hands,
and to the judgment, of the House.—( Loud cheering.)
Mr. COL QUHOLTN admitted that the toast proposed ey,
the Hon. and Gallant Member was an ill-advised toast, and
somewhat uncalled for.—( Laughter and cheers from Ministe-
rial Members.) It was for an ill-advised toast the Irish Go-
vernment had dismissed the Hon. and Gallant Member frau'
the Commission of the Peace.—( Cries of " No, no.) Was
that denied ? Was that Gentleman in the Commission of thaha
tt
Peace now ?—( Cries of " Oh, oh I"). The result was,
the Hon. Gentleman had been dismissed from the Commissl°lLl
of the Peace for an ill-advised toast. In this the House rst.'s
admit there was somewhat sharp practice. —( Cries of
no.") It showed, in his opinion, a very vigilant discharge 0_
their duty on the part of the Government ; but were they aess
vigilant in all other cases? The Hon. Member made sot%
further remarks, which the great length of the debate conWe
us to omit.
Mr. O'CONNELL—I am glad, I am exceedingly g?d'hti:
have the °ppm- unity of discovering the precise spot-
House which the Hon. Member dignifies with his presets:l)le
( Laughter.) He has had a journey through Ireland, a, d et
has brought home with him a great many stories, and a on ts
full—l will not say of blunders—but of mistakes; inistaheat
too, of a most curious kind.—( Hear.) A small one Delany
Delalv ever was a priest; it is another that his friend ses
iaa respectable person ; for that respectable person novr•
in one of her Majesty's gaols, convicted of some atrocious b
rat
sank in Ireland.—( Laughter.) His excuse, indeed is t
i.
the spirit overcame him.—( Laugher.) Yes, it was the sp
°t
of potteen.—(Laughter.) Then there is, too, the notion I
the Hon. Member that he is acquainted with historical fae"
He says that Ulster was quiet the moment that the Pro of
tants united with the Presbyterians Did be never bear atid
the battle of Antrim? Does he know that in that battle isvinri
O'Neill lost his life? Does he know that Antrim is in, a'age.,
ter ?—( Laughter and cheers.) Now, that happened in ",-be
and there then is his defence for peace being preserved in 'IA
north from 1797. Does he know that there was a battle foug a
in Down by the rebels? Did he ever hear that there wa,, -
abi
Committee of United Irishmen established in Belfast ?
but then said the Honourable Member, they were Prts's
terians.—( Hear, hear.) What I Is he for throwing the Pre:
byterians overboard? I thought that some of his constituenwa
were Presbyterians.—(Laughter.) Oh ! they do some bar
jobs sometimes.—( Laughter.) Here, then, is the denoulaas
of the Presbyterians I Let it sound through the streetc.oe
Kilmarnock—let the people be told what their rep: ear litatleca
thinks of them. But then the Hon. Member quoted aspabee-st
which he made for me.—( Laughter.) Now I tell bin)
{or
the first intimation I ever had of that speech being made
rise, was by a letter that I received from Mr. Drummond."'
(Laud cheers.) I was in Dublin when I received that letter;
I gut it at my house, and the moment I read it, I asked!,
liberty to see Mr. Drummond. I did see him, and I t".-se
said to him, " Good heaven ! who told you that I ever laise
such a speech?" "Oh !" he replied, "it was stated in t
Evening Mail of last night." I said to him, I was going 1
a public meeting, and I should, if he wished it, COntrsdic
that speech.--(llear ) Now, I never said a word in elseirsei
diction of that speech, but others did. The high-sherDA
the coun y, who was present at the dinner where the Ocean
was said to be delivered, contradicted it. The late R°fas.
Catholic bishop, Doctor Nolan, who is since dead, e°o;.
dicted it. Mr. Houghton, and one or two other 114.1710
trates who were present, contradicted it.—( Hear.) the
was another speech said to he mine, and made 11',8 of
public streets in Carlow. That was quoted in the 11°11-,ecl
Lords by the Bishop of Exeter. Now, I never contra lie
that speech from that day to this, and yet it was equallY, Insa y
with the other, with tlos difference, that it was ridiet"°">
false, not atrociously false, like the calumny in questio,a"the
(Hear.) It is really m t worth my while to contradict skip()
calumnies that are uttered against me. I could not have the
to do any thing else if I took the trouble of refuting a"useo
calumnies that are published respecting me. I have
calumniated in Ireland, in England, and in Scotian,
(Cheers);—and when I have replied to my calumniatvibe
have been met with a total silence.—( Loud cheers.) „et.
Hon. Member says I gave the repeal of the union as a
this
Well, to be sure I did ; and did I not make a motion in ~,h
House for the repeal of the union ?—( Cheers.) But alth7ef
the Hon. and Gallant Member for Armagh gave the t°°s; to
the Battle of the Diamond, be did not move in this 1413ush-t r,
raise a monument to the heroes of that battle.—(baug- de i
and cheers.) I was heard in this House for five hours, alio,
am sorry the Hon. Member for Kilmarnock was not Pres; sto
When the repeal of the union was first advocated I ha-see-
idea of seeing Lord Mulgrave in his present position--°'
leg an English nobleman there.—( Hear. „eing
alr LITTON said that in speakirg of the toast, for ?beet'
which the Hon. and Gallant Member for Armagh bad leco
expelled f. one the magistracy, he would say that it was /Roo
at a dinner to which the friends and supporters of that re.
Member were invited, with closed doors, and not in tabeaPneto
seam of any one who thought fit to go there. It was "L'a io
friends who were present, and this was the first install, e-s of
which this species of prying into the houses and the ricuaben-
social life had keen exercised ; ani he called upon B°11;pril
so
tlemen in that House to join him in condemning a sYs-at he
base and so improper. The Hon. Member for Dublin sad let
had given the toast of " The Repeal of the Union," vi.at be
him gave it.--( Hear.) He had justified it by stating t!:,5 ia-
had moved the Repeal in that House ; but was that a J;
cation for a Magistrate and a Member of this House `t- aer
had proposed the toast in the midst of a great number ;are
sons -of thousands of the lower classes of Irish wbnci and
around him, and his speeches were to be canvas stioa
to be repeated by millions of others. Was it a just'nc-neo•
that in t,e midst of a large assemblage he should havhrs be,
pesei a toast of this exciting nature, not that there In'ghaela
a legisla ire repeal of the Union, but that the peoples it an
agitate and should fight for it ? Or, he would ask, fa coo
argument that the Hon. Gentleman should be suffered hitnoo
tinue in the Commission of the Peace, to hear from
one or two occasions he had proposed to the o Legislatureidsch
peal of the Union ? But there was another subject tse.
he would call the attention of the Right Honourable the se•
cretary for Ireland, and the Right Honourable the St.ower t°
for the Home Department. Could they give an a nualin
ti e county for having suffered the Hon. Member for .'s;bin a
to be held in the Commission of the Peace, when, 11,!joioe,
year and a half, he had declared in the Irish Asso‘ cote
amidst excited thousands, that he would not advise tie r asfe,
not to pay tales, but, so help him God, he would rater
his bed seized from under him, and have his body nervc'as
through the streets to gaol, than pay a farthing. Tina in the
a speech made in January, 1837, and it was rep She
Evening Post of the lath of that month. He would Mel d'
House whether it was proper that the Honourable_o3ooo°
should have thus spoken upon the subject of the alive's*? _
stained tithes ? rather
Mr. O'CONNELL rose to order. It was going
too far to talk of blood-stained tithes.—(A laugh.) mother
The SPEAKER (we believe) said that the Hon'
was out of order: t Tee to
Mr. LITTON knew the Hon. Member would n 0 lice
00 He
mend any course to the people with respect to (-PP ge,
tithes, nr r would he go to any meeting for that polio-
held himself too sacred for it. pee
key fie
Mr. O'CONNELL again rose. The Hon. ik1e,114.1,
that he was at liberty to say what be pleased of :aslowr
stated that he was not at any meetings, but that be _no o
gated others to go to meetings. He thought this saw, "
et
order. eStraij
Mr. LITTON said, then, that he would read an
from the seech attributed to the Hon. Member, ells". be bad
leave it top the House to say whether the construction issent:f
put upon it was not a correct one, and that the niacries
her had instigated others to go to the meeting.--a
" Order." r was again oo
The SPEAKER thought the Hon. Member
tarY
of order.
forMlrre.laLeldT, TenOdNthweousldeearesktetrhye
eaNeobthlee
Home
disnli9s3eie•
whether there was anything that could justifyh _role alod
the Hon. and Gallant Member for Aremtiaog t
LArodsothDe
ei7aerst Icor te,f
af the 007 the
tracy, and the appointment and retention
b e
were not bound, ,Ya both.
not °elf
Peace,
de n
dMe
whethermber forthe
GDublinove re neltth
and uttered a few w°'-``''
Major 111‘NAMARA rose
be as a.
us.
tie of justice and honour, if they d led one to dismiss,. the
tendency of which did not reach
f it had been
r:ara at
opinion that it would have been
d not been brought fo
e.
Mr. SHAW said that vi
to sink into obliviou, and if it had
who was ehnrigtsict
all, more especially when t.hterep
tee thirty-three yearseeareicetc Do
ith
having given it was a Marsobe a
respectbetter ito the toast,
er wed
mission of the peace, an
but who enjoYed %rise
fortun-ci
gainst whose
binryb
rositio:
charge had ever been made,.
in society, and who
h t the Noble Lord shout h,_et
He was surprised, too,t
and that "law. 80!
transactions with the matte", e ,the
_f
the,
up any old transa was in the possession of a - 'gave
commission of um F of the t°
Gallant Member from the .the giving
have been made a ground for the dismiss °,l-eace. I est
circumstances immediately regarding