The Sun.
London, England, 1830-02-06 00:00:00

below him, so well able for the task, would not hesitate to • what took place is that House bad teen productive of the
bring the matter before .the House at a convenient greatest good to all, and he submitted to the good sense
time, that Hunourable Members might find out whether of the House whether they would not for one year allow the
upon the principles of this letter they could expect to have suspension of this order, whereby the experiment might
justice done with respect to the affairs of India. It was be tried whether any evil would result from it. By
well known that Sir John Malcolm must have made this adopting such a course, the House would show that they
letter public, in order that he might be considered the King were not ashamed of their acts, and lie should think
there. He was to act as the Sovereign there ; Sir J. Dewar that there was not an honest Member but would feel proud
was to kneel before him, and lie was to say—" Rise, Sir of having been accessary to the abolition of such an order.
John, I create you a Knight."—(Great laughter.)—ln all The accommodation the public at present had was so bad,
the communications that he (Mr. H.) had seen take plees that lie should be exceedingly happy if any course
between this country and India, he lead never seen one could be adopted to render it more suit tble ; hut
contain so great a violation of principle. If the House, as that (could not be thought of. He trusted that the
it was bound, meant to protect the native. of that county), House would join with him in endeavouring to expunge
ft out the most oppressive acts, it was absolutely necessary this order, which was so little attended to.
that this letter should be enquired into, because no native Mr. Secretary PEEL could not accede to the Ho,a.
could expect justice under the promulgation of such prin- Member's proposition. How could the House, without
cipies.—(Hear, hear.) uutice, abandon so important a privilege? The lion. Mein-
Mr. BANKER—Sir, I do not know what doctrine of bet's speech itself was a strong confiernation of the impol.cy
mine the lion. Gent. who has just sat down has spoken of his measure, for he had stated that the oriler was a
of. lam not aware, when I rose to answer the question mere dead letter. He trusted Hon. Members would not
of the Hon. M mber opposite, that I laid down any doctrine part with so great a privilege, at least without some cos_
whatever, unless it were this, if doctrine it can be called, sideration. These who would read the debates in tl e
that a man ought not to be judged of so severely for his public papers, would see access was given to every body,
private and confidential communications, as if that had and that the complaint of tile Hon. Member was totally
been intended to be made public, and was avowed to have unfounded. He (the Right Hon. Secretary) doubted very
been a public document. That is the doctrine I have laid much whether, if the measure proposed by the Hon. Mem-
down—that is the aetmost of my doctrine, which I think ber was enforced, that decorum due to the House would be
will bear the test of every good man's feeling. I 'hall not maintained as hitherto. He thought at least, if the Hon.
be led on this occasion, by what the Hon. Gent. has said, Member intended to press this subject, he ought net to do
into a discussion of the Learned Judge's conduct, to whom it precipitately, but upon consideration.
the letter alludes, for that may be made the subject of After some observations between Mr. HOME and tats
inquiry
toe
inquiry hereafter. The Hon. Member has referred to Right Hon. Secretary,
copies of this letter directed to him from . Cal- Mr. HUME would not press the subject at present, but
roue : it is very true that copies of this letter take another opportunity of bringing it forward.
appeared first in Calcutta; it is true also that copies of it STAMP DUTIES.
appeared in the London papers, differing in most materi d Mr. E. DAVENPORT moved for a return of the
parts front those published in Calcutta ; and he thought Stamps on Bills of Exchange during the last: four
it was impossible for the Hon. Member to say whether years inclusive. After a few observations from the
any and which of them was correct. Chancellor of the Exchequer and Mr. Hume, Mr. Daven-
Lord ASHLEY scarcely knew what course to take port agreed to withdraw his motion.
upon the present occasion. He hail certainly been in- Mr. ROBINSON wished to put a (pastime to his
formed that the communication in question had been Majesty's Secretary of State for the Home Department,
written most strictly confidential. As to the observation and that question was, whether any negociations were
that private communications were in contradiction to pending between this country and the United States of
public despatches, he could only say, that during the period North Attie' ica, with a view to renew a direct intercourse
he bell office, he never knew any such circumstance take hetweeen the United States and his Majesty's possession,
place. in the West holies.
Mr. BROUGHAM said, admitting the communication Mr. Secretary PEEL stated that communications had
to be confidential, he could not but view with alarm such been received from the Minister of the United States, and
a confidential proceeding. It was no very pleasurable idea that communication was still under the consideration of
that had bees produced in his mind by the perusal of such a his Majesty's Government.
letter, public or private, written by a Minister of the UNREPRESENTED TOWNS.
Crown. It was in fact to say to a Judge, that the more Lord J. RUSSELL gave notice that he should, on the
disposed he was to act in strict conformity to the civil 231 instant, make a motion for giving Manchester, Bir-
and military Government—the more disposed he was to have mingbam, and Leeds the right of returning Representa-
no will of his own—but the more anxious he was to meet Lives to sit in Parliament.
the Government views, the better he was adapted for the THE ADDRESS.
office. He did not understand how such a very important Lord PALMERSTON wished, before the Report was
communication upon a very important subject, between a bought up, to make a few observations on the subject of
Minister of England and the Official Government of India, the Address. It was natural that, when Parliament met
was to be considered so private and confidential. No doubt at a moment of such universal pressure, they should on their
no expression of contempt or abhorrence could be suffi- first day of assembling devote themselves to the considera-
cient to convey the feeling of a gentleman against the con- tion of that distress which was so generally felt. He, how-
duct deny individual who hail made the letter public, if ever, trusted that the House would not forget the other
it had really been intended to have been so strictly con- topics to which the Speech had averted, which, though
fidential ; but still that did not exculpate Lord Ellen- they did not come so directly home to the business of
borough from the fact of writing such a letter. He could men, were nevertheless of great national importance. He
not suppose or imagine that Sir John Malcolm himself had did not wish to express despair, or concur in the measures
banded over that letter to the press, but it was certainly from which some expected to obtain relief. But lee did
highly probable, as the letter was altogether in favour of not think with any feelings of despondency of the prospe-
Sir John, and altogether against his antagonist—holding rity of the country, when he saw the millions of indus-
him up, and knocking down his opponent—it was highly winos; men who enjoyed the advantages of a genial climate
probable that Sir John, enamoured of being thus elevated, and fertile soil. It was impossible that such a cenanu-
might have shown the letter to one friend, and then to nity should not go on annually increasing. The distress
another, and that one of those friends having taken a copy now prevailing must mainly have arisen front the rota-
of the letter, might have di erred it worth sending forth to autos adopted with regard to the currency. Any Mem-
the public.—(Hear, hear.) her who had voted for those measures, without reflect-
Mr. PEEL said, that the authenticity of the letter ing on the consideration of the pressure they would
had yet by no means been established. No man wi.o had produce, hail voted not understanding the principles on
read the Calcutta publication, and also the English publi- which the House had returned to a metallic standard
cation of the letter, could fail to see the difference in certain for the currency, followed by a certain contraction of
parts. He asked his Noble Friend whether the copies that the circulation. While transactions of business were
had appeared, or either of them, were copies of the letter he taking place, and bargains of trade making, those
had written? The Noble Lord declared that it was who bought or paid at the new standard while others
utterly impossible for him to say ; he had written it were soiling at another standard, were exposing themselves
hurriedly, awl strictly confidential, and had kept no to considerable lose. This, in many instances, produced a
copy of it. He (Mr. Peel) did not mean to say that great pressure, which absorbed the profits of the trauseacet
a public officer was indiscriminately to write on tion altogether by the change thus created. If the House
public affairs, as, he might say, confidentially, and then contrasted the pressure now existing with that period of
afterwards screen himself from public animadversion under distress, ruin, and bankruptcy, which occurred at the
the plea of having written privately ; but certainly a public moment of the panic, when desolation was spread over the
officer might be at liberty when writing strictly privately country, we should see that a temporary pressure like this
and confidentially to allude to public affairs; and was better than an unsound currency, and that its evils,
this joke—indiscreet jest or joke, as it might be—was not were lighter than those of the other /system. The cowntryt
to be considered so serious a circumstance as to form the was in the condition of a patient labouring under a ifiseaee
foundation of future proceedings. for which there were no means of cure but by a fatal ope-
Lord JOHN RUSSELL could not doubt that the let- ration. This was the choice of evils before this country.
ter had been hastily written, and on that account, without If we had not strength of mind to undergo the pain neces-
any other, reflected great discredit on the writer. It was sary to the cure, we should endure more pain. at itliout any
evident that the Noble Lord did entertain certain senti- benefit. He did not think there was no salvation for the
ments, and his holding them afforded a presumption tilt country, though it was stated that we had made no ap-
he was not fit to conduct such an office as that at the proximation towards it by adhering to a metallic currency.
head of which he was placed. He surveyed with great satisfaction that part of his Ma-
Mr. BROUGHAM wished to know whether any thing jesty's Speech which called on Parliament to adhere to the
hail been done relative to the return of Sir J. Grant. measures they had adopted with regard to the currency.
Mr. BANKES observed that the subject had been under The best way of giving relief to the country would be to
discussion when the illness of the Noble Lord at the head open the channels for the employment of our native in-
of the Colonial department intervened. dustry. At the same time let the shackles be removed, by
Sir J. MACKINTOSH considered the Judges in India giving a stir and aiding the efforts of the capitalist, and
entitled to the special attention of the House. They were bring more shoulders to bear the weight of the public bur-
a body of men separated from the great belly of the lithe- diens. He would nut say that those parts relative to our
bitants of India, having no means of gaining popularity but foreign policy had given satisfaction. '1 be principles of
being often placed in circumstances that rendeted them ex- foreign policy pursued by this country were exceedingly
tremely unpopular. It was said this was a private letter, but unpopular. We hail followed a system injurious to the
he did rot see that a letter written to a Governor in India honour and interests of the country. This opinion was
could be considered as any thing but a public Act. It not peculiar to a few; but he would appeal to any Hon.
was true it might be considered as the secret opinions of Gentleman of that House, who hail passed beyond its
those who administered the affairs of India. The charac- limits, whether they had not observed, in the course
ter of Judges was not to be considered as such a trifling of their intercourse in other countries what might lead
thing that persons were to take upon themselves to write them to form the pante opinion. A tittle, however,
letters with respect to them, and then to say that they would come for the discussion of all these topics, which
did not remember what they had written. Such other- were not very interesting at present. But be was anxious
rations as " a wild elephant hieing best between two tame to enter his protest on the present occasion ; for if the
ones," were not easily forgotten. It was hut a poor de- Address had passel in entire silence, it might have been
fence for any party to use to say that he had forgotten understood to imply a general approbation. He con-
what he had written. feud that this House would have approved of any foreign
Sir R. INGLIS, though he differed from Iris Hon. policy that would have led us to interfere more with the
Friend, considered the Hitless of the Noble Lord at the affairs of the Continent. He objected to the policy of
head of the Board of Controul, as twine excuse for not making the integrity of the Turkish dominions in Europe
recollecting the Ist:list:ince of the letter. as essentially necessary to the interests of Christian and
Mr. BANKES wished to make some ohservation upon civilised Europe. He did not wish to see Tut key gar-
what had fallen from his Hon. Friend who had said so risoned by Russians, nor the Russians frontier extended
much on the forgetfulness of the Noble Lord at the head in that line. Indeed, such an extension would not 1
of the Board s.f Controul. The friends of that Noble be fur the interests of Russia, and he was sure it
Lotd would but ill serve him, and badly discharge their would not be for the interests of the rest of Europe.
trust, if they rested his defence upon his forgetfulness. Was there no alternative between putting Russia into
Even the expressions of the letter as they appeared in the possession of Turkey and the cessation of the existence
newspapers in England, had been a good deal misrepre- of Turkey as an European power ? He must conclude that
sented. the Ressian war had not ended satisfactorily to our Go-
Mr. S. RICE wished to say that he had prefaced the vernrneut. We had two courses to pursue : one was out
subject by a question, whether the letter which had of the question ; but if we had net aseisted Tom key openly,
been published was to be considered as genuine or we might, by inducing her to make timely concessions to
not. ' His reasons for asking that question were, just &amide, have avoided the war. He was deeidedly
on account of the letter dating what the intentions of his of opinion that Government should have used all meats to
Majesty's Qoveenment were with respect to the East iniloce Turkey to avoid that war which must finally end,
India Company's Charter. After a few observations from in leer humiliation. He would hot, jtowove ,r go further
other Members, the petition was read and ordered to lie bite the subject th it evening, Ix-creme he Oeffe::Wed-thitt-Co-
on the table. vcrnment had been unremitting in their efforts to execute
Mr. WM. PEEL presented certain Returns respecting the Treaty of London. Some documents were to be laid
the state of Gauls, which were oi dered to lie on the table. before the House, which he should examine. He would
MALT DUTIES. take leave to state that he trusted when those papers were
Load F. OSBORNE gave Relief, that on Thursday inspected, they would be very unlike the correspondence
after the recess he should make a motion for the House to which appeared at the end of the last papers which had
go into a Committee on the subject of the duties on Malt been laid before the House. That was a meagre, unsatisfac-
and Beer. tory, and partial exposition of transactions. He trusted that
THE CANADAS AND THE UNITED STATES. those papers would. not merely give reports, but on
Mr. ROBINSON—I have 4 question to ask of the the contrary, documents, which would show the views,
Right Hon. Secretary for Home Affairs of great public policy, and instruetiens of the British Goverment durin
importance; and I truer. that he will have no difficulty iia the course of these transactions. He did trust that Govern
giving such a reply as will remove the uneasiness that ment would execute the Treaty of London in the fair and
exists among parties in this country who are interested in obvious sense in which it was contracted. Ile trusted
the point, and others who live in the Canailas. My glees- there would he nothing done to restrict the limits of the
tint) is, whether any negociation is pending between this New State so as to endanger its power of self existence.
couotey !sod the United States, with a view to the renewal 'lime Greek state world in that cue be incapable of main-
of a direct intercourse between the United States and our Mining its political existence if any leotinacious opinions
possessiotts in Gouda? were allowed to prevail so as to inclose it within narrow
Mr. PEEL—My answer to the non. Gentleman's limits. It was worthy of great approbation that the
question is this—that a communication has been received question was still under consideration, since the peace,
from the itrnieter of the United States on that important what should be included within the limits of Greece.
subject; and that this COMMUllleation is still under the It was a matter of little importance to Turkey, iu her
consideration of his Mejesty'e Government. present condition, whether this or that island or valley
ANCIENT ORDER. teas taken from her and assigned to Greece. But
Mr, HIJME called the attention of the House to one it wes of importance to Europe that the New State
of its mist Ancient. ortlers—(Laughter)—he meant that should be capable of maintaining itself in a state
which went to exclude pet zone 6'041 being present dor- of independence, as it would exist under the
ing the discussions in the lloure.--e (Hear, hear.)-- dread daily and hourly of attacks front Candle
It was well known that if any Member of the House and other islands left to the Turks, in the spirit
, sloauld signify his wish th it the gallery should be cleared, which the termination of the war must have it:-
that wiela must be complied with without the sense , fused into them. The character of the Greek State should
of the House being taken upon it. Some time ago, Ibe not merely sufficient to pr serve its revenue, but to
when an Honourable Friend of his was about I protect it from reaction. He was anxious now to advert
to make a motion relative to the enormous !to that part of the Speech in which his Majesty announces
expenditure of Buckingham Palace, an Honourable ! his anxious desire to recognize the present usurpation of
Member got tip and moved that the gallery be cleared, I Dots Miguel. He did not object to recognize him as the
thereby preventing the truth going forth to the public. 1 actual Sovereign—as merely having, ascended the throne,
As long as the resew order was a standing one not by the regular and legitimate course in which the
up n the Journals of the lloute, it was impossible for any Crown was attained in other nations. But this country
individual to object to suds a course being taken. He had nothing to do with the question; we bad no right to
had long made up his milt(' that the making vuli.is of . inquire whether his title was legitimate or not; but, cer-