The Sun.
London, England, 1830-01-16 00:00:00

SPIRIT OF THE PUBLIC JOURNALS.

A pamphlet, under the title of aZetto- tathe•
Agriculturists of England, by a :Laptio' toner,
has been sent to us for peruseil..•:: k_As in our
judgment a sensible cornpositort,,e
,_--: result of,
actual experience ; and tho Ugh not . precisely
new in point of matter, is expressed With much
.
clearness and force. The author's purpose is to
demonstrate the necessity of establishing-a system
of poor laws for Ireland, by proofs of the increas-
ing tendsncy of Irish immigration into this
country to reduce the bulk of the English pea-
santry to the degraded condition of paupers.
There is, as appears to us, no doubt that some
measure must be adopted here or in Ireland, to
assuage the bad effects of this constant pressure
of Irish destitution upon the resources of British
property and labour. But we are no believers
in universal nostrums. We hesitate to conclude
that poor laws only would save England from
the effects of Irish competition, exerted in what-
ever form might be prescribed to it by a general
inferiority of prices throughout Ireland, compared
with those for which English labour and Eng-
lish produce can be afforded. Poor hiws would
be a refuge for the sick, disabled, and helpless
portion of the natives of Ireland ; but we are not
so certain that they would prevent the more
active and adventurous among them from still
swarming over to this country in search of work,
if work be slack on the other side of the Chan-
nel. Unless wages in Ireland can be raised
more nearly to a level with the price of labour
here, the Irish labourer will still be attracted to
the British market. Extension of the poor law
system to Ireland, therefore, may be found of it.
self an insufficient remedy for the evils com-
plained of by the " landowners ;" nor do
we know that, broadly as he states the mis-
chiefs arising from the access of Ireland to
these markets, it is possible for legislation
to provide a remedy, without re-adopting
many barbarous and frightful expedients,
which English legislation has long since aban-
doned. The author not merely murmurs at the
impossibility under which the British peasant
suffers of maintaining a competition against the
low wages of the Irish emigrant, but likewise at
the hardship imposed upon the English farmer
of selling in the sane market with those of Ire-
land, the corn, cattle, &c., raised in the latter
country at such inferior cost. Now where is
there a direct cure for this grievance but in a
tax on Irish corn, and other produce imported,
of the same nature as that imposed on corn from
all foreign regions ? Are those who may agree
with the " Landowner" in his recommendation
of a poor law, prepared to follow up his argu-
ment to its extreme consequences-, and to pass a
hill for keeping Irish wheat at home, as well as
the class of labourers who raise it ? If not, the
proposal falls short - of its intended purpose.
Again, if without any obstruction to the entrance
of Irish corn to our ports, a poor-law be enacted
for Ireland, having the effect which it must
have, of lowering the rent of land in that coun-
try, the produce of Ireland will be rather reduced
in price than heightened by such a circumstance,
and the competition rendered by no means less
formidable, but possibly more so, to the British
farmer. The question, therefore, though clear
enough in principle, is not quite so smooth
when we come to it as " practical men." How,
again, shall we apportion the poor-rates ? Is
the occupying tenant alone to answer them ?
He is already overburdened by the unconscion-
able rack-rent which he pays. If a poor rate
be imposed on Ireland, it ought to be levied on
the landlord,—on each successive stage of laud.
lords, from him who has the fee-simple, through
the several middle-men now in existence, upon
whom the act against sub-letting cannot operate,
downwards to the tenant at rack-rent, who ought
to be discharged from the rate. It ought to bo
levied on tithes also, by a similar calculation of
poundage. 'l'his, perhaps, might touch the
landed interest effectually, and of course they
will furiously resist it ; but Government, in
abetting the measure, will have the people on its
side. We subjoin a passage from the little
pamphlet referred to, adding on our own part,
that if Irish poor-laws cannot do all which is
expected from them, they will no doubt accom-
plish much, by ministering even some alleviation
to the evil so universally complained of ;—.
" The evil which it is the object of this letter to
expose in its true colours, is one of which no shadow
of an excuse can be alleged; the remedy I propose
is fraught with the self-evident principles of justice,
common sense, and enlightened policy. More than
this—it is perfectly practicable; and in accordance,
I firmly believe, with the opinions and wishes of the
existing Government : which, however, can hardly
be expected to originate a measure of this import..
ance, unless strongly called upon to do so by the
parties who are most closely interested in its adop-
tion.

" The grievance I am alluding to, is the want of
a legal provision for the poor in Ireland. It may hot,
at first sight, strike every one to what an ext:eht this
circumstance affects the landed interests bf England.
But a very short investigation will, I think, make
this matter clear to all.

" The absence in Ireland of the poor law, to
which, in England, landed property contributes so
largely, affects the holders of that property in two
ways.

4 In the first plum the poor of Ireland are,
through want, compelled to migrate to this country
in hordes and being willing to work for the lowest
pittance rather than starve, their only alternative,
they drive out of employment, in the towns and
manufacturing districts of England, thousands of
native labourers, who fall back upon their parishes
for support, and are maintained by thtna in idleness,
or something like it, at an enormous expense. It is
evidently the same thing to the English rate-payers
whether they maintain the Irish paupers themselves,
or an equal number of their own parishioners turned
into paupers by the immigration of the Irish, and
Who, but for this, would find work enough to main-
tain them independent of parochial relief. It is
clear, therefore, that, awing to the absence of a poor-
law in Ireland, English property is virtually rated to
maintain a great part of the Irish pauper population.
" I do not dwell on the large sums which are
paid out of the county rates directly towards Ole
support of Irish vagrants. This, though a tonsi-
detable grievance, (in the county in which I am
writing, Wilts, it amounts to near 1,0001. per an-
num,) is a drop in the ocean, compared to the bur-
den of supporting the thousands of English labourers
thrown upon their parishes by the competition of
Irish; who have no other resource, owing to the ab.
senc,e of a poor law in their own, country.
" 2. The second mod is which this anomaly
injures us results fk,olgt, the unequal circumstances
under which the growers of farm produce in each
country In;tng their goods to the common market.
Litglish agriculturist pays a heavy poor-
we out of the produce of his latid---(we have even
seen that he pays it in great part towards the sup-
port of the Irish poor) the Irish agriculturist pays
no poor-u,se at all I The English farmer has to
pay, his labourers wages at the rate of from a shilling
fo half•a-crown per clay. The Irish farmer hires
his labourers et 4d. or .sd. per day, because even
this crueUy low rate of wages is better than starving
—the only alternative for a labourer in a country

where there is no poor-law I Is it clear now in
what way the English landholder is injured by the
want of a poor-law in Ireland ?
" No farmer can avoid ruin if he cannot obtain in
the market a remunerating price for the produce of
his farm ; that is, a price which will cover its cost,
and pay him a profit into the bargain. The cost of
production, exclusive of rent, consists in the ex-
penses of cultivation, of which labour forms by far
the largest item, and the public burdens on land,
viz., the tithes, taxes, and rates. Now how is it
possible for the English farmer to get a price in the
market sufficient to repay all this outlay, when he
is there met by the Irish cultivator, whose expendi •
ture in labour is not one-fourth of his own, and who
pays no poor-rate, generally the very heaviest of all
the public burdens on the English producer ? The
Irishman, under these circumstances, can sell hi±
corn, his cattle, his hogs, and his butter, with a
profit, at prices which will not• keep the English
fanner out of gaol, or English farms in cultivation.
Is this practically the case ? Let those who attend
the markets of London, of Liverpool, of Bristol,
nay any of the principal markets of England, an-
swer, if they are not undersold in every quarter,
and in almost every article, by Irish produce,—
by produce, I repeat, raised upon land which, pays
no poor-rate, and by labourers who, having no
legal right to existence, will work upon husks
and potato-skins rather than starve. Is this fair ?
is it just ? I say at once, and deny it who can, it is
contrary to every sound principle of equity and do-
mestic polity.
" We have a right to require either that Irish pro-
ducers shall be interdicted from our markets, or
placed On a level with ourselves with respect to the
public burdens affecting production.
" To impose duties on Irish produce, or prohibit
its introduction, must, however, be impossible, so
long its the Union endures;—as impossible to build
the famous wall of brass between the two countries.
Then what we ought to insist on is the other alter-
native. We have a right to a parity of advantages
with the Irish growers in the supply of our own

markets.
"No rational person complains of natural or
unavoidable disadvantages. If the soil or the climate
of England were so inferior to those of Ireland, that
farm produce could not be grown here except at
double the cost of raising it there, the landowners
of England would resign themselves to their com-
parative poverty, and be content to see the sup-
ply of their markets principally in the hands of Irish
growers. But the superiority which we com-
plain that the agriculturists of Ireland possess
in the market over those of England, is owing to no
superior natural advantages whatever. It is purely
artificial and factitious. It is caused by a difference
in the public burdens imposed on the land of each
country by the common Legislature. The effect is
precisely the same, and the equity of the matter as
perfect, as if Parliament were to lay very heavy taxes
upon land and labour in Yorkshire, from which all
other counties were exempted. The value of farms
and farming-stock in Yorkshire would fall in exact
proportion to the disadvantage under which this
measure placed them in comparison with their com-
petitors in the markets. Land which bore wheat
before, could only now bear oats and rye; and that
which bore the latter crops before, would now be
altogether thrown out of tillage. It is 'exactly as if
a high duty were imposed by Government on all
English-grown corn, cattle, butter, and bacon, from
which Irish produce of the same kind was free."—
Times.

In perusing the Life of Major-General Sir
Thomas Munro, a highly interesting work, to
which additional value is given by a selection of
Letters from that distinguished statesman and
soldier, and several valuable fragments, we have
found the opinion of Sir Thomas considerably at
variance with that of Lord Combermere on the
subject of the allowance to officers. In Memo-
randa, dated 1812-13, he observes, " Military
allowance, both to European and native officers,
ought to be regulated on the principle of holding
out increasing advantages at every progressive
step, and the means of realizing a competency
after a certain period of service; but under no
Government will the public resources be ade-
quate to this object, if the allowances to the in-
ferior ranks of the army are too high. A subal.,
tern upon half-batta may live not only without
distress, but comfortably, in any part of India.
It is not necessary that he should do more. It is
even better that he should feel difficulty °cat-
sionally ; but it is a bad training for an officer,
to place him in a situation where he shall always
be at his ease, and scarcely ever feel the necessity
of practising economy." This may alma: be
A lecided decisive with respect to the policy of re-
ducing all the officers to half-batta for the future
Those who entered the Bengal service in the
expectation of full batta, may be considered As
exempted by special contract irons the reduction.
Th 3 opinion of Lord Combermoere, a stranger
in India, will not for one moment be put in
competition with that of a man who, like Sir
Thomas Munro, has passed a long and most
active life in that country. Another observation
of Sir Thomas in that paper is peculiarly appli-
cable just now :
" There are many reasons why the Civil Go-
vernment of India should have a greater controul
over the military power than in other foreign depen-
dencies of Great Britain. In all of these the mili-
tary force is too inconsiderable, and too closely con-
nected with the Mother Country to attempt any
fling against her; and in most of them the Civil
Government is strengthened by the weight and in-
fluence of the Colonial Assemblies. But in India,
Government has nothing to support it but its own
character and the authority with which it is invested.
It has no great civil societies to come forward to aid
in the time of difficulty. The chief strength of the
army is composed of natives; and even of the Eu-
ropean soldiery, the greater part have no desire to
?cave the country. It is evident that the authority
of Government over such an army ought to be
maintained by every means not incompatible with
the respect due to the Commander-in-Chief, and
that the supreme military power should be vested in
the Governor in Council."
The latest communications from India, in
which we find evidence of Regiments determin-
ing that they will not be reduced, afford but too
strong a confirmation of the wisdom of the abow...
opinion. The officers, encouraged by Lord
Combermere to oppose the reductions proposed
by Lord William l3entinck, have, as was to be
expected, gone beyond what any man will now
venture to approve of. The Governor in Coun-
cil is openly spoken of by these mutinous soldiers
as one to whom they o wed no obedience.—
Morning Chronicle.
We call the attention of our readers to a valu-
able communication in another column, on the
!übject of some recent remarks we made on the
Pamphlet of the Landowner, recommending the
Introduction of Poor Laws Into Ireland as ne..
cessary for the protection of English agriculture.
Our Correspondent, than whom no one is better
entitled to be heard on the subjea of agriculture,
thinks we are in error in supposing the apnlica-
t ion of capital to Ireland would add to the
ports from that country. Without entering into
:any argument on the general queLti.on, we think
it would not be difficult for us to show th:it the
extension of the Poor Laws to Ireland, coupled
with the Sub-letting Act, would in time add
snaterially to the exports from that country.—
One of the first effects of the Poor Laws, aided
by the Subletting Act, would be to produce 4
gradual diminution of the agricultural population
f Ireland. Landlords would find, firs', that

the land could be better and more economically
cultivated by one-third of the people than at
present. Whenever they have the power they
will drive down the miserable hovels, so that

there may, at all events, be as few successors
as possible to the present claimants on the
parish support. No men in their senses will
support a population who claim food without
giving an adequate return. In Ireland there is
not the same connection between rich and poor
as in England, and the gentry will seldom be
withheld from any wish to stand well in public
opinion, from acting much more rigorously
towards the poor than any gentleman in Eng-
land would think of doing. We anticipate,
therefore, a severe measure of justice towards

the poor on the part of people of property, who
will call on the Government, without scruple,
.. .

for protection from the consequences to which
the measures of the Legislature have led. It
will be seen, if we mistake not, that the Poor
Laws will frighten the rich for the future, and
will act repressively, but that they will take less
from the landowners than is generally appre-
hended. We think it would not be difficult to
spew, from a comparison of the agricultural
produce of districts of a given extent and fer-
tility in Ireland with corresponding districts in
this country, that our Correspondent has much
underrated the effects of an enlightened culture
in encreasing the productive powers of a country.
At all events, he will allow that Ireland might
be in what is called high agricultural cultivation
with some millions fewer inhabitants than at
present. We know of districts in very high
cultivation, with a very thin population. If the
English agriculturists, however, feel quite tran-
quil at the prospect of the application of much
additional capital to Ireland, we have nothing to
say against it. Whatever be the result, they
are at all events clearly entitled to protection
against the addition to their own rates caused
by the want of Poor Rates in Ireland. And,
what is more, the labouring people of England
are clearly entitled to protection against the
ruinous competition to which they are now sub-
ject from the same cause.—lbid.
POOR LAWS IN IRELAND.
TO THE EDITOR OF THE MORNING CHRONICLE.

Kent, 14th January, 1830.

SIR,—In the Chronicle of last Tuesday are some
observations upon the effects of the introduction of
a Poor Law into Ireland, which, if correct, would
much indispose the English landowners to promote
it. As lam a sincere well-wisher to that measure,
and grateful to you for the able advocacy you have
afforded it, and to which, indeed, may be mainly at-
tributed the progress of public opinion in its favour,
I whh to make a few remarks calculated to remove
the impression that may be occasioned by your rea-
soning upon " A Letter to the Agriculturists of
England, on the expediency of extending the Poor
Laws to Ireland, by a Landowner."
You " 4 contend that the effect of imposing a poor
rate in Ireland would be to increase the food raised,
cheapen the rate of raising, and add to the exports."
Of the agricultural capability of Ireland there can
be no doubt, nor, if a more spirited mode of culti-
tion were adopted, that a much greater produce
would be gained. By a more spirited cultivation I
mean a greater outlay of capital. In this respect the
Irish farmers are miserably deficient, and the land
bears ample testimony to it. Mr. 'Wakefield calcu-
lated that it would require 120 millions to place it
in the same state of improvement as England and
Scotland ; and this, independently altogether of
the capital which an English farmer brings to the
cultivation more than the Irish one, and which can-
not be estimated at less than a similar amount.
That by employing this 240 millions, or any part
of it, upon the agriculture of Ireland, the food
would be increased, is doubtless true, but it does
IlDt so certainly follow that the rate of raising it
would he cheapened.
It has been sapposed that important advantages
may be expected to accrue to agriculture from im-
proved implements and superior skill in cultivation;
these, however, are not much to be calculated upon.
The implements really necessary are very few,
easily constructed, and incapable of much improve-
ment. Agriculture is a simple art, with but little
science ; nearly stationary, except by the occasional
but rare introduction of a new plant, and the know-
ledge of it is pretty equally diffused among those
who practice it; the principal distinction is between
those who have capital and those who want it ; speak-
ing generally, the former are the good—the latter the
bad farmers. In fact, agricultural improvement may
be cleaned a judicious increase of expence.
Now, as in Ireland the utmost that can be is ob-
tained from the land with the capital at present em-
ployed, any additional prodocc must be the result
,of increased outlay ; but it is riot auppoeed that the
effect& e;( additional capital employed in agriculture
can be so sf,:riklnis as when successfully applied to
manufacturing ma'c'hinery; the price of the commo-
dity is not expected to be materially lowered; it is
deemed sufficient for the outlay to yield a moderate
interest ; issdeed, it is an axiom of the political eco-
nomists, that raiditional capital is applied to the
land only in consequence of a rise of price; there-
fore, neither the introduction of p, Poor Law, nor
any other circumstance, can render food cheaper in
a country wheee, As in Ireland, it is raised by the
labour of a population whose existence is sustained
at the lowest possible rate of eapense.
NP: is there, I think, much reason 0 apprehend
additional imports from Ireland from the antratie-
tion of Poor Laws.. If the measure be to render it
unnecessary for the halfefemished labourers of that
country to deluge this in search of a scanty pittance,
by giving them a legal claim to a sufficient allow-
ance of wholesome food, this will absorb a large por-
tion of that suKly with which we are at present
inundated. Should the scale of the allowance of
the English he taken as the standard for the Irish
labourers, and those multitudes of them wi;itls now
swarm theotighout the Empire remain at home,
their own markets will require all their growth,
even if the land of Ireland assere more fertile than it is.
I have thus endeavoured to cares the obstacles
to this measure, from a sincere conviction t:',as. its
adoption voold be of infinite advantage to the king-
dom at large. it mould, in my opinion, be an un-
answerable objection, shessild its tendency appear to
he to lower the price of food. It svaa:ld exceed the
limit;; of this letter to show how cheapness a food
must be considcrel a symptom of an unnatural and
unhealthy state o taints, in a densely peopled and
highly taxed country. Ireland, though the cheapest,
ia the most wretched part of the empire; and in
Etiglas;d, the daily declining price of food is aceoms
panied with sl:istreas so general that none but the
public annuitants esaape influence. Indeed In.
the last thirty years, the rate a Aspd may be fairly
gostaidered as the barometer of general isroiaerity
and distrees; the former having been always accoals
paiiied with high, sand the latter with low prices.
I remain, Sir, you; obedient servant,
T. B.

h seems to us in the highest degree absurd,
and in diree4 contravention of the avowed ob-
ject of their appointz-.44, that the new police-
men should have an interest in efie uses which
they prosecute, by being allowed their expne-i,
or rathcr an additional salary out of the county
rates, for the rime they are attending the Courts
in the capacity of prosect4ors or witnesses. How
can that be called a system of pre.:•-zne police
which gives its agents a manifest interest in t 4.-;
commission, sad consequent increase of offences?
For, while human nature continues_ to be what it
is, we defy the best intentions, and the most
incorruptihie integrity, to be always proof against
the knsettinb, sin which tempts men in the shape