The Sun.
London, England, 1839-08-17 00:00:00

—(Hear, hear.) A nation is not- justified in assum-
ing powers to which she has no right, because she means
to apply them to a good end—( Hear hear)—nor
entitled to enter on a moral crusade, to convert other

nations by unlawful methods. Such proceedings will
inevitably produce the most awful results, from perpe.
tual irritation, and universal hostility."—(Cries of
" Hear,.,hear.") The Noble Earl emphatically declared
that he rested on this eminent authority ; and, inthe name
of this great Judge—in the name of justice—in thename
of the law of nations, he entreated their Lordships not
to take now the first step in a novel course of legisla-
tion2—not to legalize as far as they could a universal
right of search in time of peace, which was contrary to
the law of nations—which no law of the British Legis-

lature could justify—which would infallibly incense
against this country all maritime States—which would
not really put down the traffic which it was intended
to annihilate, but which would ultimately involve the

empire in general war.—(Hear, hear.)
The LORD CHANCELLOR said his short an-
swer to the speech of the Noble Baron, and to the emi-
nent authority which he had quoted, would be just this
—that the Bill did not touch the right of search as re-
ferred to by that justly celebrated Judge.—( Hear, hear.)
What was the meaning of this right of search ? Why,
that one nation contracted with another to do, or to ab-

stain from doing anything, and that the nation claiming
the benefit of the contract claimed the right to search
the vessels of the other to see that the con-
tract was fulfilled. Now this Bill gave no new

right of search. It provided that Portuguese or
piratical vessels might be searched. As to the
former, no question was raised that the right
existed. As to the pirates—surely they would not be
...

exempted.—(Lord Ellenborough:—" How are you to
know that they are pirates ?") Why, how could it be
known that a Portuguese vessel was so—save by search-

ing ?—(Hear, hear.) If the Bill passed restricted in its
provisions to Portuguese ships, the vessels must be
searched to know if they were such. This was the only
way in which it could be discovered that a vessel was
hostile or piratical. True the risk was incurred in all
cases, of the officers—if not protected—suffering the
consequences of an error on their part. But if the Bill
were restricted to the Portuguese ships, it would be ut-
terly useless, for it would merely be necessary for the
slavers to take care that they bad no papers of any
nation on board, and they would be protected.—(Hear.)
The Earl of WICKLOW admitted that the Bill
gave no right of search which did not now exist ; but it
seemed to sanction an illegal practice—a practice which
should be exercised under orders issued by the Govern-
ment on its own responsibility, without asking Parlia-
ment to sanction it.—(Hear.) He trusted the second
amendment would not be persisted in.
Lord LYNDHURST urged this second amendment
because he thought that an officer seizing a vessel under
the orders of the Government, should not be personally
responsible• for the damage—( Hear, hear)—and that
if treaties were violated the Government at whose di-
rections they were violated, should be the parties re-
sponsible.—(Hear, bear,)
The Earl of DEVON objected to Parliament being
called on to sanction an unlimited, undefined, and wide-
..

finable right to be exercised against all the world.—

(Hear, hear.)
Lord BROUGHAM said be had no wish to pro-
long the debate, but some things had been said against
which he desired to enter his solemn protest, though as
briefly as possible. He must emphatically deny that
this Bill would, or could render justifiable that which by
treaties, by the laws of nations, was not justifiable.
—(Hear, hear, hear.) With regard to that cele-
brated judgment of Sir William Scott, which had
been referred to by his Friend the Noble Baron oppo-
site, in terms hardly less eloquent, he would say no-
thing against the authority of that distinguished Judge,
for whom he had the greatest respect, but this he
must say, that though this judgment was the most
able perhaps of all, it had not met with the assent of the
profession, nor did it appear to be supported by prece-
dents which should have been received. The Noble
and Learned Lord then proceeded to argue against the
validity of Sir W. Scott's opinion relative to the right
of search in cases where vessels were engaged in the
slave trade, and concluded by expressing as earnest
hope that their Lordships would not take away the
stringency and efficacy of the enactment, but would
pass the Bill.
After a few words from the Earl of. Wicklow, Lord
Lyndhurst, and Lord Ellenborough,
Clause 1 was agreed to with a few verbal amend-
ments, as was also clause 2.
The other clauses were then agreed to without any
amendments, and the preamble as proposed to be
amended, was also agreed to.
The House then resumed, and the Report was
ordered to be received on Monday.
The Poor-law Commission Continuance Bill was read
a third time, and passed.
Lord LYNDHURST presented a petition from
Lambeth (as we understood) against a clause in the Col-

lection of Rates Bill.
BIRMINGHAM POLICE BILL.

On the motion of Viscount DUNCANNON, the
House resolved itself into Committee on the Birming-
ham Police Bill.

Clause 1 was agreed to.
On clause 2 being proposed,

Lord BROUGHAM said he would at once state
what he intended to suggest as an amendment, and
which would remove all difficulties, and meet the objec-

tions of the Noble Duke. It was to vest the appoin
ment jointly in the Town Council and the Secretary o
State. The Town Council to have the power of ap
pointing, subject to the approval of the Secretary o
State and if the Town Council, after the lapse of a cer
tain number of days, should refuse or neglect to appoint,
then the Secretary of State to have the power of appoint-
ing. This would get rid of any difficulty that might arise
in consequence of the charter being possibly set aside by
a Court of Law in Michaelmas Term, because in that
case there would be a vacancy in the office of superin-
tendent of police by force of law, and the Secretary of
State the week after would have the power of making
the appointment. This suggestion had originated with
certain friends of the measure, but who were, never-
theless, averse to vesting in the Government the appoint-
ment of superintendent. This would meet all the ob-
jections of the Bill, and could not offend the people or
the corporation of Birmingham, whilst it would entirely
get rid of the objections of the Noble Duke. The
salary, which was 8001. a year, had been objected to.
He had inquired what were the salaries in other towns,
and he found they varied from 150/. to 400/. per annum,
and he could not see why the superintendent of police
of Birmingham should have double the amount of
salary of the superintendent of police at Liverpool,
which was a larger town ; but he was afraid they could
not alter that part of the measure, although this afforded
additional ground of displeasure and jealousy to the
people of Birmingham, but his suggestion was calculated
to meet all the other objections.
Lord DUNCANNON defended the increase of
salary, and appointment of superintendent being vested
in the Government, on the ground that as an advance
of money was to be made the Government had a right to
superintend the distribution of it.
Lord ELLENBOROUGH objected to the princi-
ple of a divided responsibility.
Lord BROUGHAM said his Noble Friend would
surely not contend that no Town Council could be en-
trusted with the appointment of its own police ; and why
should Birmingham should be singled out in this manner?
His Noble Friend had very cautiously made use of the
ambiguous word " advance,' but this advance was to be
repaid in two years, and if the people of Birmingham re-
paid the money surely they ought to have the appoint.
ment of the person spending it.
Viscount DUNCANNON said the Town Counci
had applied for a police.
Lord BROUGHAM—But not for this police—
they applied for a good measure and you give them a
bad one.
Lord ELLENBOROUGH did not care whether
the Corporation had applied for a police or not—public
necessity required it.
Lord BROUGHAM said the application for money
was contained in a private letter from the Mayor with-
out consulting the Town Council, and he was autho-
rized to state that neither the Mayor nor any member
of the Town Council would have made any application
for an advance of money even, if they had entertained
any idea that that would have a pretext for saddling
them with a foreign police.
The further consideration of this amendment was de-
ferred until the third reading.
A very desultory discussion ensued, in the course of
which, the House of Commons having been cursorily
mentioned as not having understood a certain amend-
ment in a previous Bill,
Lord BROUGHAM said—l don't think they un-
derstand anytbing.—(Order, order, from Lord Lynd-
hurst and other Peers.)
The Bill having been agreed to, with various verbs
amendments impossible to collect,
The House resumed ; and their Lordships adjourned
shortly past Eight.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, AuGusT 16.

There being only 34 Members present at Four o'clock
the House was adjourned till to-morrow at Twelve
o'clock.

Saturday next is mentioned as the probable day
for the Prorogation.
The new Reform Club House is about to be
made
which, as the upper part will be
let as eapartments,ntirelyfire-ipsroof,
considerate plan.
a
SCOTTISH CONVENTION.—In accordance with
former arrangements, delegates from different parts of
Scotland to the amount of about sixty, met to-day (Wed-
nesday) in the Universalist Chapel, Dowhi!l, for the pur.
pose of taking into consideration the best means of organ-
izing Scotland. Mr. John Duncan, from Edinburgh was
appointed chairman, and Mr. T. Gillespie, Sec. The
meeting was constituted with prayer, and the Secretary
began the business by calling upon the different delegates
to give a report of the state of the districts which they
severally represented. The delegates were engaged in
giving in their reports as we were going to press. —Glas.
sow Chronicle,