The Sun.
London, England, 1839-03-16 00:00:00

that the trade of Switzerland had nothing whatever to do hand by the total repcalers, and on the other by the fixed
with the operation of the Corn-laws, nor had that of China duty men—men by the way who were characterized by hay-
and the East. Now he (Mr. P.), who represented the ing no fixed duty whatever to propose.—( Laughter.) And
manufacturing interest, entertained a directly opposite a person of the class which he now defended would have too
opinion. He stated on a former occasion, that Switzerland much reason to exclaim, "I am one of those who feed all,
exported two-thirds of its present cotton manufuctures, and and who are yet abused by all—in short, lam a fanner I"
met the English manufacturers in the markets of the United ( Great laughter and cheers.)
States. On that ground, which we ourselves oc- Mr. HOB HOUSE—The Hon. Member for Lincoln-
cupied a few years ago, they were now fast supplant- shire, had said that very unfair attacks bad been made by
ing us.—(Hear,- hear.) Then with respect to China, the manufacturers upon the agriculturists. But he (Mr.
bad we the exclusive supply of manufactured goods to the H.) could prove that most unfair and unfounded attacks had
Chinese markets? No such thing. In 1834, not less been made by the agriculturists upon the manufacturers. A
than 166,000 pieces of cotton goods were imported through specimen of these attacks would be fourid in a speech of the
Canton, the produce of America, against 75,000 pieces Noble Lord, the Member for Lincolnshire, at a meeting in
in the same year, the produce of English looms. If, with that county not long since. The Noble Lord then said—
the growing population of America, they became greater " I consider the opposition to the existing Corn-laws to
consumers of tea than heretofore, we were not safe in have been got up by persons who do not sincerely wish
China ; and as we had to send our goods into that market, well to the working classes, but who are mere popularity
the question of the Corn-laws bore directly on our supply. hunters."— (Cheers from the Opposition.) Now that
The Hon. Member made some observations with respect cheer proved that the Hon. Gentlemen were identified in
to Saxon wool. He said that considerable orders had feeling with the Noble Lord. But he (Mr. H.) would
been received in this country, because the Saxon hosiery meet those calumnies by asserting that a more honourable,
had proved to be of an inferior description, and it was found high minded, intellectual class of men than the manufac-
necessary again to come to the English market. That might turers did not exist.—( Laughter and cheers.) He (Mr. II.)
be true, but he did not consider it would be of a perms- was not influenced by such disgraceful motives. He for one
nent character. While the Saxon manufacturer could was no popularity hunter. Last Session he supported
produce 25 per cent. cheaper than we could, there was the motion on this subject, when the supporters were 99,
great room for improvement in the quality, and the Saxon and the number against it was 300 This showed that he
might shortly again make his appearance in the same was a free agent—and so were all who acted with him.
markets with an amended description of articles, and Com- He did not apprehend, with the lion. Member, that low
pete with us as successfully. The Hon. Member for Lin- wages must always produce low prices. On the contrary,
colnshire had accused the manufacturers of this country as the price of labour, would depend, like other commodities,
being men of a sordid disposition, and caring little for the on the demand. Mr, Burke, in an able treatise in 1793,
interests of those whom they employed. The Hon. Mem- showed that labour was a commodity the value of which
ber only a few weeks ago was addressing a great number depended on the wants of the purchaser. The Hon. Bart.
of landed gentlemen at a meeting in the metropolis, and he the Member for Pembroke, would not admit that labour
said, inasmuch as the manufacturers of the country had was a commodity. But he would confidently set Mr.
flourished between the time of passing the Corn-law Burke against him, and let the House decide between
in 1815 and the year 1820, it must have been the them.—( Hear, hear.) He was glad to see that the Hon.
result of that law.—( Hear, hear.) He ( Mr. Phillips) Member for Lincolnshire bad at last admitted that the
thought if the manufactures of this country did flourish, it manufactures of the Continent had grown and flourished
was rather in spite of this law, than because of it.—( Hear, within the twenty-five years of peace. Now, he (Mr. H.)
hear.) The Noble Lord, the Member for Shropshire, had would ask the House, whether, when peace had diffused
talked of the manufacturing population not petitioning. such blessings—when capital had accumulated—when skill
He bad petitions from every trade in the borough which he and industry had migrated to those shores, they would now
represented relative to the operation of these laws, stating maintain these odious restrictions, and thus still increase
that they viewed them as laws affecting their interests. that capital by the destruction of our own manufactu-
But did the Hon. Member expect the operative portion of rers......(Cheers)—those manufacturers, out of whose funds
the community to be the first to petition the House, rather that odious, unjust, and tyrannical war, which not they,
than the party who employed them, and who were more but the agriculturists had commenced, was paid for ?
likely to anticipate coming events ?—( Hear, hear.) When ( Cheers, and " Oh, oh," from the Opposition). As for
agricultural distress had arisen the labourers or the far- the rural population, every one of the arguments advanced
mers were not the first to petition, but the land- by the other side, applied to his case, though, perhaps,
owners had been the parties to lead the van.— not so directly. They had heard the instance of the
(Hear, hear.) From what he knew of the feeling bonded corn, which, after being imported from St. Peters-
of the manufacturing community, there was a 'deep burgh in 1831, was thrown into the Thames in 1837.
and intense feeling in connection with the operation of Sarely such a trade as that, if profitable to the im-
these laws, and bow could it be otherwise? The hand porter, must be highly detrimental to the country.
loom weavers, and others, had seriously felt the difference As for the defeat of the object of the present epstem,
between the price of provisions in the early part of this it was proved by the fact that the returns for
year and the last. In many instances the price had been the last few years showed that the fluctuation
as nearly as possible, double. In January, 1838, flour was in the five years had been so much as 65 :per cent.,
ls. Bd. per dozen lbs. ; and in 1839, it was 2s. 9d. to 33. namely, from 395. 4d. in 1835 to 645. 7d. in 1838. The
Potatoes had been driver, upwards, in consequence of Right lion. the Secretary-at-War and the President of the
the increase of price, and while they paid sixpence per Board of Trade had already demonstrated how the farmer
score pounds in 1838, in 1839 they gave a shilling.— cuff red in cheap years after having been tempted by
( hear, hear.) He was somewhat at a loss to discover on high prices to force bad lands into cultivation. Taking
what peculiar grounds the landed interest sought to con- all the vexatious and injurious fluctuations entailed by the
tinue these laws.—( Hear, hear.) Had the manufacturers present system, he thought the agriculturists, on the
a voice in the matter? Decidedly not, for at that time whole, would have reason to rejoice in a discontinuance,
Manchester, Birmingham, Sheffield, and Leeds, had not a as well as the manufacturer and the labourer, the
voice in the Legislature-4 Hear, hear.) He re- Government, and, finally, the country at large.--( Hear.)
gretted that the House did not accede to the request It a, p and from the report of the Committee of Petitions
made by the different trades, to be heard by evidence at that the petitions presented this Session for a repeal of
the bar of the House.—( Hear, hear.) With respect to the Corn-laws had received 418,000 signatures, while
burdens which was stated to press so heavily on the land, those on the Opposition side had not received half that
he wished to make a few observations. It appeared to amount. He beseeched the House to concede the de-
him that county and highway rates were paid in towns as mands of the people, and not wait until a convent was ex-
well as counties, and if they looked to the malt tax torted from them. He would rather see this an open•
they would find that it fell upon the consumers, question with this Cabinet than a close question on the
who were precluded from drinking wine on account otlisr side of the House. The eyes of the people were
of the high duties levied upon it. He did not see why anx;ously directed to votes that would be recorded that
such strong complaints should be made by the landed in- evening—(Cheers)--and he hoped that, while they per-
terest, that they were the peculiar objects of taxation, but ceived that Hon. Members on his side the Douse voted
the misfortune was, that while the House had levied taxes with impartiality—( A laugh from the Opposition Benches)
generally on the community, the landed interest found that —they would not perceive that Hon. Gentlemen on the
they had taxed themselves.--( Hear, hear.) He was not Opposite side were linked in a close compact to resist this
disinclined to enter into the consideration of the pressure motion. It would be no unfair conclusion to draw from
of the burdens of the people with as great an anxiety to this, that the Members on his side the House, even those
do justice to one class as another, but that the people of who voted against the motion, were actuated by reason;
this country should be called on to support laws decidedly but when they saw on the other side. the Mem-
injurious to themselves, merely for the benefit of one portion leers for great towns uniting with the Representatives of
of the community, was unjust and impolitic, and for that agricultural counties, they must come to the conclusion that
he would never give his vote.—( Hear, hear,) He stood they were so confined by the trammels of party as to be
there as independent as any Member of the House. He unable to co-operate with that side of the House. He
was not actuated by any pressure from without—( Hear, hoped that they would not give people reason to suppose
hear)—either by constituents, or by any body of that they were actuated by party considerations. In order
Delegates in the course which he was taking, but it could that he might clear his conscience to the country, and not
not be denied that when the people made known their appear a partisan of this odious and unjust protection upon
opinions through bodies of Delegates, there must be some Corn, he should vote for the motion of the Hon. Member
great grievance which it behoved the House to consider. for Wolverhampton.—( Cheers.)
When he stated his opinion to be in favour of the total Sir ROBERT PEEL said that this was the fourth
and immediate repeal of the Corn-laws, it was not merely night of the discussion of the question of the Corn-laws,
as the representative of a commercial community—as a and, as he had no intention to avail himself of the daily
commercial man, but in connection with the landed interest discussion of this question, on collateral topics with which
itself.—( Hear, hear.) He advocated the total repeal, be- they had been threatened' by the Honourable Gentleman
cause he was convinced that in the course of a few who spoke last„ the mention of which occasioned infinitely
years they must come to it, and he would rather choose more dread in his mind than the threats of physical force
the present time for doing it than when the Continent
_( A laugh)—he was anxious to take that opportunity of
should have male great preparations for the coming event, delivering his opinion on this subject. The Honourable
and might flood us with that quantity of corn which the inn- Gentleman had deprecated a spirit of unanimity on that side
gination of many Members now saw ready to enter our of the House, because that spirit of unanimity exhibited a
ports. There was an observation made by the last speaker remarkable contrast to the spirit which existed on the other
in the debate of last night, to which he would just allude. side of the House, and in her Majesty's Government. If the
He said if we were driven from the markets of the Conti- Honourable Gentlemen had said he deprecated unanimity
nent there was a place of refuge for us. Where ?In central among the agricultural classes, because those classes felt
Asia.—( A laugh.) If the Honourable Member had made their interests were affected by the present motion he could
himself better acquainted with the facts be would have understand what he said, but this motion tended
known that it was not likely our heavy manufactured goods to shake the interests of all classes of the
would be used by the Hindoos, or those living at the foot community, and it was not the representatives of the
the Himalaya mountains—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") agricultural classes alone, but the representatives of corn-
He hoped Hon. Members would look to events which merce and the representatives of manufactures, who
were about to take place; they were rapidly losing their joined with the representatives of agriculture, in deferring
markets on the Continent, and although their exports had to the wishes of their constituents and consulting their in-
been referred to with some triumph, he feared it would be terests by considering it their absolute duty to repel this
found that they were losing the nearest and most valuable motion.—(Hear, hear.) There were two ways of dis-
of their markets, and that they would be driven to those at classing questions of this kind. The first was to refer to
a great distance. He did not hesitate to say, and that topics affecting partial interests, and appealing to the
feeling wzs general both in and out of the House, that if passions and feelings of those addressed. This was in.
some alteration did not speedily take place, the best into- finitely the most convenient course, and the most pals-
rests of the country would be jeopardized, industry table in addressing a popular assembly. There was an-
would be depreciated, their capital would be transported to other method which was not so likely to meet with favour,
other countries, and the landed interests would receive a that was to state arguments for and against the question
blow—inflicted by themselves—which would recoil upon fairly, to give each its weight where you concur in them,
their own heads.—( Cheers.) to state that concurrence, and where you differ to state
After a few words from Colonel WOOD in explanation, the reasons of that difference ; and foregoing the advan-
Mr. HANDILY said, one would suppose from the length- vantage to be derived from appeals to the passions, this
ened speech of the Hon. Member for Kilkenny, that the pre- was the course that he intended to pursue.—( Cheers.)
sent was the first night of the debate, instead of its being the Before the Session opened, when he saw the agitation
fourth night. He felt bound to take the first opportunity of re • of this question commenced, and the B:tard of Delegates
pudiating, on behalf of those whom he had the honour to
represent, the charge which had been made out of doors appointed, he had imagined that the depressed state of
for months past—that the landed interests had arrayed commerce and manufactures would have been made the
themselves against the working classes.—(Hear, hear.) ground for demanding a change in the Corn-laws, but at
On the last occasion, when he had the honour of address- the commencement of the Session the Hon. Member for
in the House, he had congratulated them that no popu• Kendal, in seconding the Address, bad stated that the
far feeling had: been excited out of doors, but he commerce of the country was, on the whole in a state of
was bound to believe, from information he had lately re- prosperity.—( Hear, hear.) This statement had met
ceived from Manchester, that a strong feeling had been ex- with great but unmerited indignation and obloquy,
cited there against the Corn-law agitators. (Hear, and had lost him the confidence of his constituents
bear.) When they had failed to create an excitement in at Manchester. These statements had been denied,
London, and returned to those whom they called their but now, on the fourth night of the debate, not a single
constituents when they resorted to the miserable and
fact had been mentioned to prove that trade or manufac-
tures were in a depressed state. A statement had been
unnecessary expedient of closing their mills and
putting the operatives upon what was called short made, that the trading manufacturers had decayed. The
work when, with a degree of audacity which lion.
Gentleman had denied the fact, and this honest de-
he could not characterize, they calk el their con-
diet had occasioned him much unfair and unjust censure,
stituents together for the purpose of reiterating the votes but it would have been in vain ;for him to attempt to sup-
of confidence which they believed they possessed—they press the fact, whatever advantage he might have derived
were indignantly expelled from that hall by the very opera- from its suppression, because it would have been proved
tives whom they sought to controul, and who knew as well by the returns produced.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.")
as they could tell them, that their aim was not to increase It was said, indeed, that the experts' had increased, and
w their comforts but their own profits.—( Loud cheering from when it was found impossible to maintain that the general
the Opposition benches.) In fact the whole object of state of the exports was unsatisfactory, then a new ground
was taken; it was then said it was true that the general these men, was to reduce the operatives to
commerce of the country had increased, but it was in the
the state of degradation of those of Prussia and Saxony.
raw material. The Hon. Member for Manchester had
—( Hear.) He had read the greatly exaggerated state-
ments which had been made on the other side, with re- spoken since of the decal of trade, and had prophesied that
spect to the falling off in their trade, but lie believed that that the country was approaching to ruin.i He ( Sir R. Peel) paid
arose merely from the improvements which had been made the greatest respect to the statements of that Hon. Mem.
in the manufactures abroad, and it was clear that England ber, but he would ask of him to verify his argument by
could no longer be the exclusive workshop of the world. reference to some public documents. —( Hear, hear.)
These parties had entirely failed to prove that the Corn- Now what did the paper which he held in his hand state
laws had produced that state of things, or that the repeal with respect to commerce and manufacture? Why it
would remedy the evils complained of. He believed much of showed that the total amount of Bi itish produce in rianu-
the loss of their trade arose from their sending inferior facture sent out from the United Kingdom, in the year
goods to the Continent, instead of satisfying themselves 1837, was 36,228,0001.—that was during the time when
with moderate profit.—( Hear, hear.) He had conversed corn was low—and, in 1838, when it advanced, the total
the other day with a gentleman resident in Germany, who amount of the exports, was 43,300,0001.—(Cheering.)
told him that the cloths lately sent were indifferent in tee. He supposed it would be said by the Hon. Gentlemen
ture, and the prints• inferior in quality. He had never opposite that those exports were merely woollen yarn and
beard what corresponding reduction in the price of manu- cotton yarn.—( Hear, hear.) Now he would look
factures would follow a reduction in the price of bread. to what the articles were. In woollen manufac-
The average price of wheat since the present laws had tures in 1837 the exports were 4,660,000/. In 1838
come into operation was 565. the quarter, and in France it they were 5,793,000/. In silk manufactures in 1837
was 40s. Now an addition of 16s, to the quarter of wheat the exports were 503,000/. ;in 1838, they were 778,000/.
was something short of three half-pence on the quartern In hardware and cutlery, in 1837, the exports were
loaf, and taking each family at six, the consumption would 1,460,000/. ; in 1838, 1,507,0001. In earthenware, in
be ten quartern loaves a week, which would make a diffor.. 1837, 563,000/. In cotton yarn, in 1837, 6,955,0001. ;in
mice in the labourer's wages of Is. 3d. a week. He asked 1838, 7,438,0001. Now what was the total amount of
was that the difference in price which would authorize articles into which labour entered? Why in 1837 the
them to introduce such a sweeping change?—(Cheers.)export of articles, exclusive of cotton yarn, was
If the benches below him had not been unfortunately empty 13,640,0001., while in 1838 it was 16,700,0001.—(Great
—(this allusion created great laughter in the House, there cheering.) Then, with respect to the exports in linen
not being a single member of the Government on the manufacture; in 1837 they amounted to 2,133,000/. ; and
Treasury bench)—he would have asked the Chancellor in 1838 to 2,990,0001. Now, after such a statement as
of the Exchequer whether he would give the labourers spi- that, the Hon. Member for Manchester might argue as he
*its and beer at a less price in such a case, and he would Pleased, but he (Sir R. Peel) would say to him, " Take
have asked the Right lion. Gentleman, the President of that paper in your hand and tell me why it is unsatisfac-
the Board of Trade, whether he would reduce the duties tory."—(Great cheering.) How could he trust to such
on tea, coffee, and sugar? Probably the answer would be, statements made by the Hon. Member in his place in
that the question was one surrounded with difficulty.—(A the House of Commons, when he found laid upon the
laugh.) He asked, what was to become of the population table of the House, from the highest authority, the document
which would he abstracted from agriculture ?—they could to which he had referred, showing that the last year had
not transfer to the loom and shuttle the population of Kent been most prosperous ?—( Hear.) Perhaps it might be
and Sussex, and Norfolk and Suffolk. If the Noble Lard, said that this was the official value, and that the declared
the Member for Stroud, was present--(Great laughter)— value ought to be looked at—that it was true that the offi-
he would ask him, were his (Mr. H.'s) constituents to be cial value bad increased, bat that that was no index of quan-
protected in the raw material of wool, by a duty of 2i per city. Unfortunately for those who would put forth such
cent., while the constituency of Stroud were protected by a argument, what he had been reading was the declared value
duty of 20 per cent. on cloth. He would remind the of the article exported.—( Hear, hear.) It was always to
House of the burst of indignation with which the Hon. be remembered that the increase between the years 1837
and Learned Member for Dublin was received when he and 1838, to which he bad averted, was in declared value
talked of the cant of national faith. Let them repeal the from 36,000,0001. to 43,000,0001. Now he would look to
Corn-laws, and he (Mr. Handley) would join in the the shipping—the British shipping entered inwards in
odium of that assertion. It had been asserted that a fixed 1837 was 12,252 ; in 1838, it was 12,890 ; the
duty was likely to make prices steady, but he asked total of ships entered inwards in the
Kfirstet;earewas
whether theie were any two articles more fluctuating than 18,113, while in the second it was 19,w
wool and tallow, on which a fixed duty was imposed ? He fore the further they went into that official peandal, per til thre
that the.
e more
found on an average of 23 years that tallow had ranged the statements of the Hon. Member for
But from 98s. to 31s. the cwt., and wool from 2s. 7d. to 3s. 6d,
pr lb. Now the growth of grain in this country was from took other grounds—the three fimanufacturers were recovering, were orhabdne out.failed;
thenitty
was
first had
it was impossible
50,000,000 to 60,000,000 of quarters a year. If there was said the profits were small,
t
but one-fifth of this qantity required, namely, 12,000,000, to have any test of the
amount of profits; but
that there had been
there would be 20,000 ships required to import the corn, supposing it was found .
estimating the tonnage of each at 200 tons, and the average immense
to
interthe price oft
hat manufactured p
rota werefiarticlesd—i.
number of passages made by each at six in the year ; and they wer.e notTh fromat
that
vras the ground upon which Admiral
that number of ships the collective Navies of the world min!'hed
could not supply.—(Cheers.) He ;void.) conclude by
\'‘rtivirthrnquLadithma Pn
roceedel—( Langhtcr)—lie n cant Al.
i but he found that , no per;"
- ,
eating upon the House to oppose the motku of the Hon.
su4poarnt him in that view of the question.
dlrleew(cSoinecilutl
Member for Wolverhampton. If the question once went
into Committee, the agriculturists would be attacked on one Peel) wished that Gentlemen before they