The Sun.
London, England, 1837-05-09 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY, MAY 9, 1837.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, Atir 8.
The SPEAKER took the Chair at the usual hour.
Sir R. MUSGRAVE brought up the Report of the
Committee on the Waterrord County Rates Bill.
Sir R. I3ATESON presented a petition from ti.le city of
Londonderry, praying that no duty might be imposed on
coals imported into Belfast by the Belfast Harbour Bill.
BRIGHTON RAILWAY.

Lord G. LENNOX moved that the petition presented
on Friday last from two Directors of Stevenson's line of
Railway to Brighton, named Crassio and Gordon, com-
plaining of fictitious signatures being attached to the sub-
scription list of the Southampton line, be referred to the
SelN:t Committee on the Deptford and Dover lines.
Mr. W. PATTON said the grievances complained of
in the petition could be:redressed in a Court of Lam. He
(lid not, therefore, think that the inquiry wits props it before
a Committee.
Sir C. BLUNT was a stronger favourer of Rennie's
iine, but still he was most anxious that the alleg itions in
these petitions should be most rigidly inquired into.
Captain PEC HELL hoped that there was no intention
to press the motion before the House, as it was a distinct
understanding in Committee that nothing was to be done
before Tuesday. The grievance complained of by the peti-
tioner, who was an iron-master, was, that he would not be
able to supply the iron rails for Stevenson's line fir which
he had contracted. Petitions cf that kind ought to be
looked at with great suspicion.
Lord GEORGE LENNOX could assn e the thin.
Member for Brighton that he would not ask his opinion at
what time he should present a petition. He co Id prove
that there was only a subscription of 7,0001. beyond what
was required by the rules of the House ; and he could
also prove, that to the amount of 10,5001. was entirely
of fictitious signatures. He could aso prove that the
Clerk to the Solicitor tor the Company ILO signed
the deed for shares to the amount of 30,000/., and it had
been already proved before the Deptford and Dover
Committee that he was a fictitious signer on that line to
the amount of 10,000/. He should most cact-tinly press

his motion.
Captain PEC HELL in explanation, said that his only
object was to enable the inhabitants of Brighton to be ac-
commodated with a line of railway this session.
Mr. CR A WFORD hoped the House would pause be-
fore they opened a discussion upon such a petiti nt, coming
as it did from a losing party. He had taken the trouble
to examine the subscription lists of both lines, an 1 ho found
that in Stevenson's line one-fourth part of the whole was
held by persons on the Stock Exchange, and that
one sixth of another line was also held in the same
way, merely for the purposes of speculation. It was
through a fraud committed by some persons connected
with Stevenson's line, through one of the Clerks on the
Stock Exchange, that the whole ruin of the gamblinz-syi-
tern had been brought about, by the stock being introduced
into that House.
Sir C. BURRELL thought the assertion of the Hon.
Member was too strong. It was too much to say that per-
sons employed on the Stock Exchange had no right to spe-
culate in these undertakings. He knew no law against it.
The petition was then referred to the Committee on the
Deptford and Dover Railway.
AGRICULTURAL BANK OF IRELAND.

Mr. E. TENNENT presented a petition from several
of the Shareholders of the Agricultural Bank of Ireland,
praying that a Bill might be introduced, to amend the Act
by which that Company was incorporated. The petition was
referred to the Committee on Private Bills.
Mr. BROTHERTON presented a petition from cer-
tain parties, praying to be heard by Counsel against the
Birmingham and Derby Grand Junction Railway.
GLASGOW AND AYR RAILWAY.

On the motion for the second reading of the Glasgow,
Paisley, and Ayr Railway Bill,
Dr. BOWRING give notice, that in Committee he
should move for the omission of the clause restraining tra-
velling on Sundays.
BRIDLINGTON PIER AND HARBOUR BILL.
Mr. G. F. YOUNG presented a petition from the ship-
owners, merchants, and traders of Tynemouth against the
passing-toll clause in the Bridlington Harbour Bill.
Mr. BETHELL, in moving the second reading of the
Bridlington Pier and Harbour Bill, said the present Bill
was merely a continuation of one which had been granted
before. It was not for the purpose of creating any new
works, but merely of continuing those already in progress.
Whatever difficulty surrounded the measure, the promoters
of the Bill felt it their duty not to shrink from it ; and al-
though the Bill appeared before the House in a private
character, it. was to promote a public object.—(Cries
of " Hear, hear.") The promoters of the Bill felt that
they had entered into an implied contract with
the public to finish the work they had already begun ; but
the great motive which induced them under any circum-
stances to persevere was, that they were engaged in the.
cause of humanity ; they were impressed with a strong con-
viction arising from the scenes of distress constantly
brought under their notice, and that the security of
life and property was deeply interested in the issue
of this measure.—(Hear, hear.) He did not stand
up there as the advocate of pass'ng-tolls ; in a general
point of view, passing-tolls were objectionable, and that
opinion had been expressed in the Report of the Committee
on Harbours of Refuge ; but there were cases which would
fairly overrule the general principle. He was willing that
a clause should be introduced in the present Bill, granting
that toll only for a specific purpose, and for a limited
period. The Hon. Member concluded by moving that the
Bill be read a second time.
Mr. G. F. YOUNG was placed in a position of some
difficulty by the course adopted by the Hon. Member for
Yorkshire. It was well known that he (Mr. Young) had
never lost any opportunity of opposing the imposition of
passing-tolls, and be was happy to find that both the Go-
vernment and the House had admitted their impropriety.
That had been his great opposition to the present measure.
but the passing-toll in that case appeared to b eof a two-fold
character ; the one upon tonnage, and the other upn coals.
The latter would fall very heavily upon the shipowners, as,
generally speaking, the coals were their own property. Con-
sidering, however, that the present harbour was an exception
to the general rule ; and considering also the impossibility of
cinnmunicating with that body, whose interests he had
always advocated, he thought he should be exercising the
soundest discretion by stating that if the Hon. Member for
Yorkshire would introduce a special enactment to limit the
tax upon coals to the period required for the completion of
the works, on that understanding, he, for himself indivi-
dually, would, say that he should not oppose the second
reading of the Bill.
Sir G. STRICKLAND hal expected that the Hon.
Member Lt. Tynemouth w4uld Lke such a course, frAn the
txpresions which had fallen from him when he presided at
a meeting of shipowners sonic time ago. This was
not a Bill to expend money for new works,
but to keep up a harbour upon which 3.5,0001. hal been
expended, and which, a Committee had reported last year
was a harbour which ought to 1.0 supported by passing
tolls—it being an exception to the general rule. In answer
to the lion. Member for Elinburghshire (Sir G. Clerk),
that Scotch vessels overtaken by a storm on the coast of
Yorkshire would not run for Scarborough or Whitby, but
for the great bay of Bridlington, because there they would
be safe, he thought that the case made out fin.
this Bill was a strong one, and on the grounds of humanity
he thought the House should pass it.
Mr. PEASE thought the coal trade was the one
which ought to be the most protected ; yet because it way
not represented in that House, Le was astonished to see
the representatives of the shipping interest abandon
their poorest constituents. It was impossible for
time larger ships engaged in the coal trade from the
North ever to make use of the Harbour. Then, why--
where was the justice of making them pay
for that which they could not enjoy ? By a return he held
in his hand, he found that thirty out of forty ships in the
coil trade drew fourteen feet water, while the harbour was
to be only seven feet at neap tides. He moved that the
Bill be read a second time that day six months.
Mr. Alderman THOMPSON thought that as the Bill
had not been supported by any better authority than it
mad been in a former session, it ought not to pass. He
would support the amendment that it should be read
that diy six months.
Mr. A. CH A PM AN thought the Bill was one of great
importance, and ought to receive the sanction of the House.
Mr. P. B. THOMPSON thought, for the sake &justice
and humanity, the Bill ought to be read a second time.
He would call on every disinterested Memh..r, who had a
doubt on his mind, to give that doubt in favour of justice
and humanity.

Sir It. PnL wished to view this Bill solely in connec-
tion with the public. If it tended to increase the secu-
rity of navigation, and prevent the loss of life, then
it was a public Bill ; yet, at the same time, if par-
ties, however important the object might be, came to
the House of Commons for the purpose of imposing a duty on
coals, in support of a private undertaking, they would find it
very difficult to give satisfactory reasons to the House for
supporting such a proposition. He had no objection whatever
to the second reading, but he thought it would be of advantage
to the House if they could get some disinterested Fore's/lot/4
authority to take a comprehensive view of the state of the
harbours on the eastern coast ; and if, after making that
survey, that judicial auth rity told him (Sir It. Peal), that
on the whole, for the commercial interests of the country,
Bridlington 1417.611 r was either the best that could be taken,
or a good harbour in coririciltion with certain others, then he
would acquiesce in the impcsition of this duty. areal advon_
tops had been experienced by the various Committees who
had been sitting on Railway Bills, in having before them a
respectable, intelligent, and disinterested engineer, and,
therefore, he thought the better way would be before they
allowed the Dill to pass the second reading, to ask the

Board of Admira!ty to appoint some gentlemen to take a
survey of that part of the coast.—(Hear.)
Admiral ADAM said, the view the Right Hon. Baronet
had taken of the question accorded with his own.
Sir EDWARD CODRINGTON having been on the
Committee, and having no local interest whatever in the
subject, would take the liberty of offering a few obser-
vations. The report of the Committee was in favour
of two particular places—Redcar, and Bridlington.
As soon as the improvements of the harbour were com-
pleted, it was possible•that the crew and a great part of the
cargo might be saved ; but if they came to the question of
a proper harbour of refuge, Redear was decidedly the best.
—( Hear, bear, hear.) Vessels were not obliged to go to
Bridlington, because it was a protected point ; but vessels
going along the coast might be driven into the bay in
which Redcar was situate, and nothing but a harbour of
refuge could save them.
Mr. BELL supported the second reading of the B:11.
Xries of " Divide !")
Mr. BUCKINGHAM agreed with the opinions ex-
pressed by the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir E. Codrington).
They were the opinions of a professional man, and as such
entitled to considerable weight with the House.—( Hear,
hear.) The House ought, therefore, not to consent to the
commencement of works of such magnitude without weigh-
ing the merits of the undertaking.
After a few words from Mr. ING H AM,
Mr. HUME begged to ask the Right Hon. President
of the Board of Trade what inquiries had been made on
the part of Government with respect to this subject? The
question was of public importance, and it ought to be se-
riously considered.
After a few words from Sir J. JOHNSTONE and Mr.

LAMBTON,
Mr BETHEL L said upon the understanding that the
Government would institute an immediate inquiry by Cona-
mis,ion or otherwise, so that much time might not be lost,
he would take the second reading now, and postpone the
Committee till the report was presented.
Co'onel THOMPSON said he had formerly opposed the
Bill, but having received communications from Hull, he was
induced now to support it. He did not like "to turn about
and jump about," without stating his reasons.—(Laughter.)
Colonel SIBTHORP would vote against the second
reading of the Bill, in case, as had been talked of, it should
give rise to another Commission.—(Laughter.)
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
. For the second reading
Against it
Majority
71
On our re-entering the gallery, we found
Sir R. PEEL, on his legs, and, as we understood, asking
the Right Hon. the Secretary of the Admiralty, whether
there would be any objection to applying that principle to
harbours which had been applied with such excellent effect
to railways?
Mr. C. WOOD made a few observations, but owing to
the great noise in the House, we could not understand the
purport of them.
Mr. G. F. YOUNG said that the consideration of the
question mooted by the Right Hon. Baronet took a large
range. The complaint was a general one, and there was 'a
want of harbours round the whole coast of Great Britain.
He thought it would be worthy of his Majesty's Govern-
ment to direct their attention to the question in its full
scope, and to come down with some general proposition to
the House.
Mr. P. B. THOMSON regretted the proposal now made
by the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth was not
made last year. The power under the present Act by which
these works were carried on would expire at the end of the
present Session ; and if some steps were not taken to carry
on that work, the whole of the expense, amounting to
40,0001., a great part of which had been contributed by the
town of Bridlingtou—(Hear)—would have been completely
thrown away.
After a few words from Sir E. CODRINGTON and Mr.
BETHELL the conversation dropped. The Bill was ordered
to be committed.
On the motion of Sir G. CLERK the Mertoun (Tweed)
Bridge Bill was read a third time, and passed.
CARLOW ELECTION.
Mr. F. BARING appeared at the Bar with the Report
of the Carlow Election Committee. He reported that
the Committee had decided that N. A. Vigors had
been duly elected to serve in the present Parliament as
Knight of the Shire for the county of Carlow ; that neither
the petition nor the opposition to it was frivolous or vexa-
tious, nor was the petition against the Sheriff, or the op-
position to it, frivolous or vexatious, and that the Committee
had altered the poll by striking off certain voters—among
others that of Philip Ryan, who, from the time of being put
on the registry, and before the election, had taken the be-
nefit of the Insolvent Debtors' Act.
Col. PERCEVAL gave notice that on Thursday next
he would move that the evidence taken before the Com-
mittee Le printed.
On the motion of Sir J. GRAHAM, the Maryport
and Carlisle Railroad Bill was read a third time and passed.
Mr. HUME presented a petition against certain parts
of the Portland Cemetery Bill.
PORTUGUESE TREATY.
Mr. ROBINSON had given notice of his intention
to ask a question of the Noble Secretary for Foreign
Affairs, whom he was happy to see in his place. He
begged to ask whether a treaty of commerce had not been
entered into between this Government and that of Por-
tugal, which was satisfactory to both, but had been
put an end to by a power in Portugal which
was stronger than the Government itself ; also, whe-
ther in addition to higher duties, additional port dues had
not been imposed on our commerce; and lastly', whether
under these peculiar circumstances the Government was
prepared to take any, and what steps, for the protection of
the commerce of the country ?
Lord PA LNIERSTON said that negotiations had been
entered into with the French Government upon the subject
referred to by the lion. Member, but in consequence of re-
peated changes in that Government no arrangement had as pt
been come to. With respect to the other question asked
by the Hon. Member, he had only to say that the Presi-
dent of the Board of Trade had already prepared an Order
in Council upon that subject, which would be agreed to the
next time the Council met.
Captain PEC HEL wished to know whether any arrange-
ment had been made, with reference to the fishing on the
French and English coasts.
Lord PALMERSTON said that some time ago he had
had a communication with the French Government upon the
subject ; that Commissioners had been appointed with the
view of drawing a more satisfactory line between the fishe-
ries on the French and English coasts ; but they bad not
hitherto made their report.
REPEAL OF THE SEPTENNIAL ACT.
On the Order of the Day being read for the House to go
into Committee of Supply,
Mr. TENNYSON D'EYNCOURT rose to bring
forward his motion for a repeal of the Septennial Act.
As soon as the noise had subsided consequent upon Mem-
bers leaving the House, we understood the Honourable
Member to say that he would have brought the question
forward at an earlier period, but he was unwilling
to embarrass his Majesty's Government, and that
he was in expectation that they themselves would
have brought the matter before the House. It was with
great pain he learned that he would not have their sup-
port, more especially as he believed them to be actuated
by a sincere desire to promote the best interests of the
country. In bringing forward his motion for the repeal
of the Septennial Act, he should briefly state to the House
the position in which the question was placed. It was
well known that previous to the reign of Henry the
Eighth the people enjoyed annual or sessional Parliaments,
and that it was in his reign the first usurpation of the
rights of the people in that respect had taken place. That
usurpation, the object of which was to render the
Legislature less responsible to the people, had been pro-
ductive of serious evil and injury. The Hon. Gentleman
then said that it had ever been acknowledged by Reformers
that one of the greatest elements of Reform was an in-
creased responsibility on the part of Members of Parlia-
ment, and that he was willing to admit that all those who
differed from him on this question acted upon the principle
of doing that which, in their own judgment, was best in
establishing public security. He could not at the same
time adroit
whom he so widely differed on this point, and he had con-
sidered it necessary to introduce the motion again. He
trusted the Government had not finally made up their mind
to oppose it, for he could assure them that the people of
England would never rest until they should have obtained
the restoration of a right which they considered as inherent
a privilege as the Trial by Jury, or any other right which
tliey inherited under the British Constitution. The Hon.
Gentleman concluded by moving the repeal of the Septen-
nial Act.

Mr. WILLIAMS (of Coventry) seconded the motion.
Sir F. TRENCH opposed the motion.
Sir S. WHALLEY rose, amidst loud calls for Lord J.
Russd. He would give way to no one but the Noble
Lord, because he was in the peculiar situation of having
paired off with another Hon. Member, and he was bound
to express his sentiments, since lie was precluded from
voting on the question. He was favourable to the motion,
which he looked upon as a most natural and important
corollary from the Reform Bill.
Mr. VERNON opposed the motion.
Mr. HUME supported the motion. He was sure that
the constituencies throughout the country thought seven
years too long a term for the duration of Parliament. The
question was, whether the dorntion of *even yours gave
responsibility enough, end whether, if it did not, they ought
not to reduce it to a shorter period. He thought that the
term of the existence of Parliaments ought to be reduced
to throe Tears neither more nor less. He did not ;spec