The Sun.
London, England, 1863-09-07 00:00:00

THE CIVIL WAR IN AMERICA• I

(From the Times' Correspondent.)
NEW YORK, Aug. 21.
The proc taxation of Governor Seymour to the
people of Yew York was not published until the
morning of Wednesday, a few hours before the com-
mencement of the draught. It is a judicious and
carefully-pr 'a pared document, and has bean received
with a howl. of rage by the "shoddy" contractors,
the Abolitifenists, the " exterminators," the " war
Christians,' and all who desire the abrogation of
State rightrs, the effacement of State lines, and the
establishme rat of a military despotism. Governor
Seymour is :not disposed to further any of the views
of these gentlemen. Knowing that they would be
glad of se riot in New York, as a pretext for placing
the city and. State under martial law, he warns the
people in el r.phatic language to keep the peace, and
at the sera, e time notifies the Government of the
danger it w ill incur if it overstep the limits of the
Constitutic n. He draws a broad line between ques-
tion 3 of State right and Federal assumption of
powers not yet granted, and while reiterating his
opinion that it would have been wise as well as
humane on the part of Mr. Lincoln to have procured
a competent judicial decision on the conscription
before proceeding to enforce it, he asserts for the
guidance of the conscripts that the law must be
obeyed until the courts shall have declared it to be
unconstitutional. Denouncing the doctrine which
once found favour in the eyes of Mr. Seward, Mr.
Charles Sumner, and other leaders of the Republican
paety, when objecting to the Fugitive Slave Act,and
goading the South into secession, that any man or
body of men may violently resist laws which are or
seem to be opposed to their private notions of right
or duty, he declares that a disregard of the sacred-
ness of the Constitution, the majesty of the law, and
the decisions of the judiciary is the greatest danger
which threaten American liberty. It is his opinion
that not only the Constitution and statutes of the
nation, but of the several States or commonwealths
of theUrtion, "contain ample remedies for all wrongs
that may be committed either by rulers or citi-
zens. Those," he adds, " who wish to preserve their
rights or to punish offenders, whether in public or
in private life, should themselves carefully perform
their duty, abstain from all illegal acts, generously
support the Government, and then calmly and re-
solutely claim their rights." He concludes by
stating that he will allow of no opposition to the
conscription, except by appeal to the Courts—the
decisions of which must be respected by rulers and
people alike. In all this the purpose is clear. The
rebuke administered to the Government is well de-
served, and the warning public and insignificant.
By this proclamation—as by every other act of this
gentleman_ since he entered upon the duties of his
office—he takes front rank in, if he do not assume
the leadership of, th© Conservative party ; and
places himself—and the great State of which he is
the chief magistrate—as barriers against the revo-
lutionary designs of the Federal Administration.
Though i• . favour of a vigorous prosecution of the
war, Mr. Seymour's real position is far higher than
that of a war demagogue. He wishes to see the
Union restored, but, whether it be restored or not,
he is determined, in so far as his functions, his cha-
racter, and his duty extend, that it shall not be re-
stored at the cost of the constitutional rights and
liberties of the people, or be replaced by a military
dictatorship. Meantime, the great revolution is
rolling on, and may perhaps roll over Governor
Seymour and all who support or agree with him.
The will for that purpose is not wanting at Wash-
ington, and the military instruments are not only
ready, but eager for the fray.
Meanwhile, the combatants are ranging them-
selves on either side, seeming as if they had agreed
to make the draught the test question which is to
settle whether the Constitution be a living document
or a dead letter. It, is well under such circumstances
that some attention should be bestowed in Europe
on the composition of the contending forces. On
the Conservative side are arranged all the educated
Americans, comparatively few in number, who
think the Federal and the State Constitution suffi-
cient for the maintenance of popular liberty and a
Republican form of Government, and who are op-
posed to all and every change, and especially to in-
terference with Southern slavery,which they hold to
be in every respect a local and not a Federal or na-
tional question. Along with them go the vast mass
of the working classes, who, under the ancient system,
possessed the privilege of a vote and ail the rights
and immunities of citizenship. These included free-
dom from taxation and conscription—one the worst
ova of insular, and the other of continental Europe,
which they or their forefathers had fled to America
to escape. Up to the outbreak of the Civil War
these classes were accustomed, each individually, to
look upon himself as the equal, if not the superior, of
tho President—a paid functionary,who was the mere
creature of their votes, and the servant of their will.
Of the same opinions as the working classes are the
struggling traders and professional people of all de-
grees, who see in the war the ruin of their prospects.
To these have to be added thehiaher class of lawyers,
educated in respect for the law, and too independent
in the exercise of their profession to accept minor
judgeships or other spoils of office at the hands of
the Administration. These diverse, but sympathetic,
bodies of earnest men form a strong phalanx, and,
having the advantage of the past history and tradi-
tions an d the existing law and Constitution of the
RersubEc osi their side, ought to be able in
days of danger to meet every revolutionary pro-
ject with the formidable opposition both of rea-
son and of numbers. On the other side are
ranged the minority, who are in actual possession
of office—a minority of preachers, theorists, doc-
trinaires, strong-minded women, hangers on of the
conventicle, emancipationists (of the slaves of other
people), and all the rich, who think that no man
should have a vote unless he be American born and
possess a large amount of property. The latter
class of people have as strong an objection to uni-
versal suffrage and as intense a hatred of its real
or anticipated results as was ever entertained by the
most narrow-minded opponent of the Reform Bill
in England. No aristocrat of the Feubourg St.
Germain in the days of Louis XV. ever looked down
with more contempt upon a vilain or a roturier than
these new rich men of America look down upon the
sales .
'lcing classes, especially if they be Irishmen,
Germans
despotic
b, or negroes. Their nature have become
y the possession of wealth, the only posses-
'ion thatlzrespected in a country where office con-
fers
n oympathisrand where no social rank exists, they
would
use ewi
tile, th despotism ett home and abroad. They
of Federalism; rish
and Germans to fight the battles
e they
would employ the negroes for
the same purpos
but they would deny all three the
exercise of political
rights, and place between the
immigrant newly arrived
!ant and a vote not only the
c
possession of aertain annaal income, but a resi-
dence of at least 21 years.
They
fear or any disfavour on the possibility look without much
al.cattudpossibility of convert-
ing the South into
r a Venetia, to be
held at the cannon's mouth by meanspassionatei determined that
of a large sten d-
ja ce army ; and are so
the North shall be a nation—sine, yhouieneuus, and
indivisible—strong enough to insulttz
minor and
keep the superior kingdoms of Europe in awe of
displeasure, arid more especially to
assume thatits
place in the trade and politics of the world whiehi
s
occupied by Great
Britain, and they would cheer-
fully sacrifice their liberty to achieve the desired
end, and bend their necks to the yoke of an iron_
handed captain who would do them the favour to
seize upon authority. Unlitio the revolutions of
Europe—which broke out in reeiet !ere; fury for the
sake of popular lileaey—the revolution that has
commenced in America is guided in tho interest ei
arbitrary power. Governor Seymour and the Demo-
crats are Conservatives. Mr. Lincoln and the Re-
publicans are innovators and destructives. 'the one
party prizes liberty for the white man ; the other
party only prizes it for the black man, with this fatal
restriction of the benefit to be conferred, that the
black man is only to be freed is order to be exp-
triaterl.

Daring the three days of the draught, which
commenced on Wednesday and proceeded yesterday
and to-day, the most profound tranquillity has pre-
vailed in the city. Not the slightest attempt at
disturbance has anywhere been witnessed ; on the
contnry, the turning of the wheels of fortune by
blind men has in the presence of vast crowds of

spectators, has given rise to much good humoured
banter, and the display of that somewhat rough
and rollicking fun which is characteristic of the
rowdy American. The Republican journals, which
persist in insulting the only class of men from amid
whom their sorely needed soldiers are to be ob-
tained, take care to inform their readers that it is
solely owing to the stern measures of precaution
taken by the Government—the presence of 20,000
armed troops in different districts of the city, and
of half a score of gunboats in the north and east
rivers—that the crowd is so peaceable. A few
Ministerial journals not quite so violent insist that
the public feeling on the subject of the draught
has undergone a change, and that the working
classes are not only resigned to it as a
national necessity, but are of opinion that,
ail things considered, it is fair and equit-
able. The value of both of these assertions
will soon be tested. Let but the Corporation of New
York, either by the opposing action of Mr.Opdyke,
the Mayor, or from any other circumstance, refuse
or neglect to vote the promised sum of 3,000,000
dols. to purchase substitutes for the poor conscripts
who decline to serve, and there will be a commotion
in New York which will fully employ all the mili-
tary skill of Gen. Dix and all the bravery of his
20,000 men to bring to any other than a disastrous
close. The conscripts of the labouring class believe
that this money will be paid, and for this reason,
and for no other, whatever the Republicans may
allege to the contrary, they keep their tempers
cool, and go about their ordinary business as if no. -
thing had happened. It they be disappointed
n
this expectation, the seizure of the first
conscript by
outbreak.
It force will be the signal for an tb
It is impossible for any one who wishes to open rea
isk.
eyes to the facts to ignore the
thinedliscbaotaiorninsgofelpsesrsiels.
The temper of the women of
is represented by those whoand itwill n
have been among
surprise
grtpishreme
as particularly violent ,
the police, however much it may surprise the doc-
trinaires and black philanthropists who have Mr.
Lincoln in their keeping, if there should be an in-
surrection of furious women rather than suffer
their sons or husbands to be carried into mili-
tary slavery to fight for a cause in which they
have long ceased to feel the slightest interest.
There are not wanting cynics who affirm that even
for this contingency the Government is prepared ;
that it not only does not fear, but would be glad of
its occurrence, because it would efford the dearly
coveted excuse for declaring martial law, deposing
or incarcerating Governor Seymour, and making
an end once and for ever of the local rights of the
most powerful, and, as the Government regards it,
the most troublesome State in the Union. There is
little danger, however, if the three million dollars
can avert the catastrophe, that the money will not
be forthcoming. The Mayor may veto the appro-
priation, but he can only postpone, not prevent, the
passing of the measure, if the Aldermen and
Common Council are resolute in their purpose to
preserve the peace of the city by this means. His
veto becomes inoperative, if, being debated after
an interval of ten days, it is overruled by a two-
thirds' majority. And, as the two Civic Courts are
said to be all but unanimous on the subject, the
opposition of the Mayor can cause no worse mischief
than delay, while personally it will entitle him to
the gratitude of the Administration for having done
his best to meet their wishes,—a gratitude which
may or may not show itself by the award of a
new contract for the supply of army clothing,
such as has already fallen to the lot of this fortu-
nate politician.

The Extraordinary Discovery in White-
chapel Church.

FURTHER DISCOVERIES.

On Saturday forenoon, at 10 o'clock, a search in a part of
the church hitherto overlooked was instituted by order of
Mr. Churchwarden N. J. Powell, and with the most unex-
pected results.
In the belfry, behind a sort of wooden chamber or box
containing one of the huge clock-weights, a child's coffin
was found standing on end, Upon proceeding upstairs into
the clock chamber, the men employed in the examination
found a child in a shroud, and no lea er than 11 skulls.
There was also in another part of the chamber a coffin con-
taining a quantity of sawdust, which, upon being removed,
discloskd to view the skeleton of a child, with a cap en the
skull. These any other remains had been placed behind
some beams or joists parallel to the wall, at a height of 18
feet above the floor of the chamber. To reach the spot
where the remains were found it is stated that two persons
at least must have been engaged, for the only access to it
was by means of a narrow ledge of timber, eight feet from
the ground, and the coffins must have been handed up to the
person above by an accomplice. The place to catch hold of
was very narrow, and if the person clinging on had made
the slightest slip, he would infallibly have been killed by
falling into the iron machinery of the church bells.
A builder, Mr. Hicks, of Whitechapel, has been engaged
to carry on this further search. A carpenter, John Roche,
employed under him, states that from the appearance of the
wood of the coffins, some at least of them must have been
placed where they were found within the last two years.
Fragments of others present the appearance of being thirty
years old.

The searches previously made being thus found to be
incomplete, Mr. Hicks has been direc'ed to re-examine the
roof and take up the flooring of the pews over the gas-pipes.
The boards of the flooring have been accordingly removed,
but nothing further has been discovered, and the re-exami-
nation of the roof has likewise yielded a negative result. The
carpenters have now been set to work to view the boards in
the galleries, but, as far as they have get gone, no more re-
mains have been found. The roof itself is made of oak, and
of course could not be removed without enormous expense ;
consequently it will not be removed, as has been stated in a
morning paper, and it is not supposed that anything further
is concealed in it. The total number of remains found by
this new search is three bodies of children, eleven skulls, and
a quantity of fragments of bodies, besides coffins complete
and broken up.

It is extraordinary that these remains were not discovered
before, as a marble slab in the bell-chamber states that the
bells were thoroughly repaired in honour of the marriage of
the Prince of Wales, on the 10th of March last.

INQUEST ON THE REMAINS AND SINGULAR

DISCLOSURES.
On Saturday afternoon Mr. J. Humphry, coroner of East
Middlesex, and a jury of the inhabitants of St. Mary,White-
chapel, assembled at the Angel Inn, High street, for the
purpose of inquiring into the circumstances connected with
the recent discovery of a number of newly-born children,
whose remains were stowed away in coffins in the roof and
belfry of Whitechapel Church.

It appears that, up to Friday night, the
chil-
dren, apparently from the size of their remains,
bodies
wi oft
with
two 4
o or
three exceptions, stillborn, had been discovered, but it was
reported that there had during Saturday iende gt
children,bh een
a 8
dis-
covered the skulls and other remains of 11 To
well as fragments of coffins which had contained
The affair appears to have created much scandal in
neighbourhood, and the Rev. Mr. Cohen, the rector,ti the
churchwardens, and other parochial authorities wore and
present, but were represented by Mr. Farnham, from notthe
office of Mr. H. S, Mitchell, solicitor and clerk to the vestry
of the parish.
The bodies were ranged is a row in one of the corridors
leading to the gallery of the church, where they.were viewed
by the jury (one appeared to be that of an infant some two
or three months old), but they were all shrivelled up into
mere mummies. On returning to the inquest room,
The Coroners said although there were fourteen bodies
found ho only proposed to inquire as to the largest child
and one or two other., as they no doubt would give the clue
to the whole.
Joseph Cooper was first sworn, and said he lived at 10,
Shaftesbury-place, and is a carpenter. He was working at
Whitechapel Church, fixing ventilators, on Thursday morn-
ing. Was also at work there on Saturday, the 22d August,
in tho roof. Whilst at work he discovered a coffin. This
was about a quarter to nine in the morning. On opening
the coffin he found the body of a child. '1 he coffin was on
the south side of the roof between the rafters, and on a tie
beam, and one end resting on the gutter. Had no know-
ledge
how the coffin and child camo there.
Joseph Tomlinson, a follow workman of the previous
wines., corroborated his evidence as to the finding of this
body,

Mr. Charles Ela k
ofihrsiltdt:
regis-
trar and on Monday e man said he was a surgeon and regis-
from
el itto::
a;:)et°dhnf
ericet:eliaornspboreconactti lehl'esessd.b.ot odlicy4 :exonafl examine
judgedfllnecomttahsol so
course state the causel:death,n but there was no doubt that
leather
of the skull. The skin
it had lived. There was
he
olade.atthaer almost in some parts.
had become converted into°
Ondebteeo in the coffin and up
in
shculd imagine t
years. Examined
body in conjunction With Mr. oLtivddoell,
in the roof of the church fromi
medical officer
of health, and he agreed wi% him.
the
By the Jury—l do not think that child had
been
three or four years. The knees of the child are drawn dead
three
and much contracted, but I can only account for thraatf .n.
the child dying in convulsions, or it might bo from berin:
doubled up after death. There was a cap round the head,
but nothing whatever lead;ng to identification. We give in
private practice a special certificate when a child is " still-
born," I think they will net bury " stillborne" at a cerao-

tery without a certificate, but the law does not compel one
to be given.

The Coroner said he would now take any evidence likely
to show how the body came there.
The inspector of police said there was one coffin that had
a name on it, and he had found the parties who belonged to
that child.

The witness Cooper was recalled, and proved that he
found the coffin which had the name on it with the other
bodies. The name on the coffin was " Mrs. Forster, 35,
Bedford .street."

Mr. John Liddell sworn—Was medical officer of health
roef tnhee
sloVmhei te
of
these
c ha p e l district.
bodies, a
nHda d
examined,be e been called
in upon
conjunctiont o ex a-
with Mr. Blackman, the child first found. He entirely con-
curred with Mr. Blackman in his evidence as to that child.
He had also examined the body of the child in the coffin
havinj an address on it. It was a full-timed child, or
nearly so, but was too much decomposed and destroyed to
discover the sex. He could hardly say how long the child
had been dead. Found no fracture of the skull or any in-
juries. He believed all the rest of the children were " still.
horns," so far as he could judge,
Sarah Allen said she resided at 27, Antliff-street, Cottage-
lane, Stepney. Had been married since the 21st of April,
1861. In the year prior to that she gave birth to a child.
Mr. Mahoney, of the Commercial road, attended her in her
confinement. It was a stillborn and not a full-timed child,
For the purpose of burial Mr. Canham, an undertaker, of
the Mile-end-road, was engaged. He sent a man for it who
took it away. He charged 75., but gave no receipt.
By the Coroner—He told me that the burial or church
fees were 3s. 6d., and he charged me 7s. That was on the
23d March, 1860. It was born on that day, and left my
house the same evening, I got a certificate from Mr. Ma-
honey. The man who took the child away took that certi-
ficate with him. When I heard the child had not been
buried I was much surprised. Mr. Canham had gone away
for some time. I had seen the man who had fetched the
body of my child away before. Mr. Canhan has buried four
of my children, once since the child referred to by the jury.
Three children were illegitimate and one legitimate ; two of
the four were born alive. The same man came for the one
that has now been found, and one before that ; the other
that died was five days old. There was another one born
alive, and was five weeks old when it died. The child that
lived five days was born in May, 1860. I had a certificate
from Mr. Mahoney with all of them. I understood that
both the children were to be buried at Bow Cemetery. The
first child,: whiah lived five days, 1 paid £1 2s. 6d. to have
buried. I have not seen the man who fetched the children
away since 1861. The child that lived five weeks was born
on Sept. 12, 1858. I think I could tell the dress of the child
that lived five weeks, and aleo of the one that lived five
days. I followed the one that lived five weeks to the grave
at Bow Cemetery myself, but the one that lived five days
Mr. Canham's man took away.
The Coroner directed the witness to go with one of the
officers and examine the clothing found in some of the
coffins.

John Holley said he resided at Orange-row, Charlotte.
street, Whitechapel, and is an undertaker. Had cmducted
funerals iu that parish many years, and was accustomed to
bury at Whitechapel Church stillborn children up to within
two years. When he had a funeral of a stillborn he used to
consign the body to a man of the name of Smith, belltoller
and gravedigger.
Coroner—You don't call that burying them at White-
chapel Church ?
Witness—Smith used to fetch the bodies of stillborn
children from my place, and I used to give him the certifi-
cate, and 2s. 6d. to pay the sexton. I also gas, him some-
thing for himself as porter or messenger. I don't know
whether the bodies were buried by Smith or not, I have
my suspicion now that they were not. I have sometimes
seen Wilkinson, the sexton, and he has sent Smith, the
gravedigger, to me for the body. He has done so many
times. I have taken bodies to the church myself and deli-
vered them to Mr. Wilkinson, but more usually they were
delivered to Smith. 1 should say I have delivered them to
Wilkinson at the church about four years. I have not
buried other children at Whitechapel Church since the pass-

ing of the Interment Act, 6 or 7 years.
By the Jury—We paid 2s. 6d. at Whitechapel, and we
could get them buried at Whitcliffe Chapel for ls, 6d. We
have kept children, stillborn, sometimes 3 months. The
certificates are sometimes signed by midwives. We take
any woman signing a certificate as a " midwife," I think
the Legislature is very wrong with regard to the facilities
for burying stillborn children.
Sarah Allen re-called—Had examined the clothing, and

identified a piece of calico in the coffin which had the name
on it. The coffin for the one which had lived five days was
covered with cloth.

Samuel Wilkinson, the sexton, on being handed the book
to be sworn, appeared much excited, and said—l am inno-
cent of this charge, so help me God.
Coroner—Do not go on in that way. No one has charged
you, that I am aware of.
He was then sworn, and said—l have been sexton of
Whitechapel 27 years next January. I formerly, as sexton,
received the bodies of stillborn children for interment. The
last one, I believe, I had in the beginning of this spring,
which had a certificate signed by Mr. Blackman. I have
never been in the habit of receiving them from Mr. Willey

and other undertakers. I will swear I never received any
in my life from Mr. Willey. He never camp to me to tell
me he had a "stillborn" to bury.
Coroner—Do you know Mr. Hicks, an undertaker ?
Witness---I cannot say I do. I knew Mr. Canham, but
I never had an) thing to do with him. I mean he never

brought any stillborn children to be buried at the church to
my knowledge. I knew William Smith, who used to work
in the yard. He is dead. I never sent him to Mr. Willey's
to fetch the stillborn children. I never did so in my life
I should say that vary few, not above 3 or 4, stillborn chil-
dren have been buried during the last five years at White..
chapel Church.
Coroner—You don't mean to tell the Court that you have
only had three or four during the last five years,
Witness—On my oath I have not.
Coroner—Where are the certificates?
Witness—l don't know. I don't keep them. I don't file
them. I don't know that Mr. Mahoney signed certificates.
When a child was brought to be buried there was always a
certificate that it was a stillborn child. I never received a
midwife's certificate in my life. I never buried a child with
a "female" midwife's certificate. (Laughter.) I might do

so now. I always buried the children in Whitechapel-
churchyard. The four or five I have alluded to have been
buried in separate graves. I receive as a fee half-a-crown
with each stillborn. I don't know how it is regulated or
who regulates the fees. If they are very poor we get Is. 6d.
I keep that fee, and do not account for it, or pay it over to
the churchwardens. As sexton it is my duty to keep the
keys and custody of the church and churchyard. I have
nothing at all to do with the key of the tower or steeple.
The keys of the tower are kept in the church porch going
up to the steeple. Others have a key of the churchyard
and not the church. Tho churchwardens have.
Coroner—There have been 14 remains of bodies found in
the church, and I want your explanation of how these bodies
could get there without your knowledge.
Witness—That is very easy. There are a great many
people come to chime the bells and practising. I am all
about the church, and persons might carry coffins up there
with children in them without my knowledge. I open the
church in the morning and close it at night. I know nothing
about these bodies which have been found in the roof. 1
have only one key to the church. No one could go through
the churchyard if the gates were closed without going
through my house,
and I should not let them do so without
my knowing their busincgs. There are the pow-openers
cleaning there two or three times a week.

Coroner—On your oath you tell the Court you do not know
how these bodies came into the church ?

Witness—On my oath Ido not. When the first coffin
was found and the man told me, I thought he was joking;
but when he showed it to me I told him to put it where he
found it, and I went and reported it to the churchwarden.
By the Coroner—l gave the other certificates when bodies
were buried to the clerk. I did not do so with regard to
still-borne, because there was no necessity for it, but I kept
money for them. (Laughter.)
By the Jury—I never was in the roof or belfry in the
church in toy life till this discovery. My appointment is
an annual one.

Wm. Shipman said he has been steeple-keeper and bell-
man of Whitechapel Church since Prince Albert died, He
used to do a little work there prior to that in chiming the
bells. Had been a bell ringer there five years, and went up
and down there, when a boy, 45 years ago. Had had the
run of the church since Prince Albert died. Had a key of
the outer gate, which Mr, Corner, chief bell ringer, gave
him, and usually found the key of the belfry on a ledge in
the porch. When he used to go to ring what they called the
breakfast bell on Sunday mornings, he had to go to Mr. Wi-
lkinson's for the key. He did not get up very early. Did not
suppose gentlemen like him did get up veryearly. (A. laugh.)
Knew Smith, the gravedigger, and rang a death peal for
him ; that was about two years ago. There had been no
gravedigger since been there, and would swear that, to his
knowledge, there had been no grave opened there either for
a still born or any other person since Prince Albert died.

By the Coroner—l have never seen any undertaker's
black bag with small coffins in it since I have been there. I
never saw the sight of a single one, and I never took in a
still born child to bo buried. I have heard that bodies have
been found in the roof of the church, but I know nothing of
how they came there. I never saw Smith bring any bodies
there. I was connected with undertakers years ago, but
they paid so badly that I thought I might as well walk
about the streets for nothing as work for nothing. I used to
go for the key of the church to Mr. Wilkinson's back door,
and the servant sometimes gave it to me.
Walter Varcoa said he resided at 2, Spital-street, Mile-
end Old Town, and was an undertaker in the employ of Mr.
Holly and Mr- Hanes, inHunt-strect,and other undertakers,
for 30 years. It was the practice of some undertakers to
keep still barns till they got four or five, and sometimes as
many as a dczen, and then take them to be buried. He had
known a dozen taken to Ilford at once. Whilst with Mr.
Holly he used to bury still borns at Whitechapel Church.
He left Mr. Holly two years and a half ago. He knew Mr.
Wilkinson, the sexton. He never took still-borns there
himself. They were all taken away by a man named Smith,
is now dead. Never had any conversation with
Wilkinson about still-horns being buried at Whitschapel
Church: lighou he had still-borns he used to call on Smith