The Sun.
London, England, 1837-02-04 00:00:00

Scotland. He would not then enter into the details of
the Bill, but would do so on the second reading of the
Bill. He would only shortly state that the Bill proposed
to consolidate the offices of Kin's Remembrances and Lord
Chamberlain's Remembrancer in that Court, which would
eventually cause a great saving to the public. There was a
power in the Bill to grant compensation to those who were
removed from situations which they now held.
Sir G. SINCL AIR said that his friend, Sir H. Jardine,
who filled the office of King's Remembrancer, was perfectly
ready and able to discharge the duties of the consolidated
offices without further compensation. He trusted, therefore,
that he would not be removed from his office and placed upon a
compensation fund, which would add an additional burden to the
expenses of the public. He would however follow the example
of the Hon. Gentleman opposite, and refrain from saying more
till the second reading of the Bill.
Sir G. CLERK said that it appeared from the statement
of the Hon. Gent. that it was the purpose of the Bill to conso-
lidate two offices in the Court of Exchequer in Scotland, be-
cause the business sod duties connected with them had so much
diminished that they could be executed by one individual—
he assumed that to be the fact.—( Hear.) Now the persons
who at present held those appointments, did so for life, and
they were willing and able, either of them, to execute the du-
ties of these consolidated offices, and yet the Hon. Member
told the House lie had the authority of Government to intro-
duce a Bill providing for the removal of both, giving them full
compensation— ('No,' from Mr. Steuart)—well, providing com-
pensation, although in law and in equity they had a right to ex-
pected full compensation as they held their offices for life, and no-
thing but a legislative enactment could deprive them ; and yet
a new officer, a stranger, was to be appointed to execute. the
duties of the new office, instead of one of the individuals who
was dispossessed.—( Hear, hear.) And this was the measure
of economy the Hon. Member wished to introduce.—( Hear,
hear.) Why, it would actually increase the expense to the
country during the lives of the other two. If it were neces-
sary that the offices should be consolidated, let them be conso-
lidated ; but let one of the present officers be appointed to do
the business at whatever, salary might be considered to be a
proper remuneration.—( Hear.)
Mr. F. BARING said if the Hon. Gentleman would postpone
the discussion till a further stage of the Bill, he would be will-
ing to lay before them the papers upon which the measure
was founded. The Hon. Gent. opposite had said that if either
of the individuals who held the offices alluded to was willing
and capable of performing the consolidated duties, he had a
right to be continued under anv other arrangement. Now he
( Mr. Baring) was willing to take the issue on that point, and he
would contend that in such a case as that referred to, although
parties were found in office there was nevertheless a discretion
allowed that they should not be continued if the parties were
not considered to be properly qualified.—.( Hear, hear.) When
the papers were on the table, however, they would be better
able to enter into the question.—( Hear. )
Mr. HLTME said that the Hon. Baronet opposite had al-
luded to the Members on his ( Mr. Hume's) side of the House.
He ( Mr. Hume) had found great difficulty in hearing the
Hon. Baronet, although he had given every possible at-
tention to him—he had only heard a few words. He ( Mr.
Hume) was sure that the Members on his side of the
House would be glad to take the Hon. Baronet's recommenda-
tion, as no man in the House could stand up to deny the pro-
priety and justice of making every possible saving at that mo-
ment. He did not know the case alluded to by the Hon. Ba-
ronet, as having come before a Committee up stairs of which he
( Mr. H.) was a Member. He supposed it was the time when the
Exchequer Court was altered, but he did not know whether
the Hon. Baronet alluded to that or not. This he could
assured the Hon. Baronet, that he would find full support on
that side of the House, if any such imprudent or improper
appointments as that stated by the Hon. Baronet had taken
place. At the same time he thought that the fact of
unfitness, after what had fallen from the Hon. Gentleman,
the Secretary of the ,Treasury (Mr. Baring), ought to be
proved before a Committee. It was totally impossible that
men who were responsible for the duty should not be allowed
to appoint proper officers.
Major BE A UCL Elt K said that nothing could justify the
Treasury unless they could prove that this individual was totally
unfit for the office. If his unfitness were proved to that
• House it was obvious that he was not entitled to compensation ;
if he had compensation for doing what he was unfit for it was
an injustice to the country. Either he was fit or he was not
fit, and if not fit he ought not to have compensation.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
he would have been perfectly satisfied to have left the House
in possession of this transaction on the explanation of his
Hon. Friend the Secretary fur the Treasury, had it n,,t been
for the last observation made by the Hon. and Gallant Member
for Surrey (Major Beaucicrk). He was not prepared to admit
the proposition made by that lion. and Gallant Member. He
(the ChanCellor of the Exchequer) would say that a case
might exist, and had frequently happened, as must be evident
to Gentlemen on both sides of the House, and those who
were conversant with the discharge of public services, in
which persons who were not fitted for new, large, and
responsible duties, but who nevertheless at the same time
had given their whole attention, and devoted their whole life
to the duties heretofore entrusted to them—there might be in
such instances a case for compensation ; and yet it might be
proper that the parties should lose their appointments.
With respect howeve -, to the facts, he did not think
it -necessary to look into them, after what had been
stated by the Secretary for the Treasury. He joined
with his lion. Friend in saying that any examination which
should be called for on this subject by Hon. Gentlemen oppo-
site, they should be indulged in to their very hearts' content.—
( Loud cheers.) They should have the papers ; and if
the papers were not sufficient, they should have what
appeared in a matter of this description, where it was
necessary to have an investigation of the facts, and which
assumed the character of a judicial proceeding, they should
have a Select Committee.—( Loud cheers.) The Hon.
Member for Middlesex ( Mr. Hume) might, if he chose, apply
his acuteness and knowledge to the subject as a Member of
that Committee, as far nt least as his (the Chancellor of the
Exchequer's) vote was concerned. The Hon. Bart., the Member
for Edinburgh should have the fullest opportunity of inquiring
into the facts. He must say that the imputations thrown out in
the course of the investigation were only just if the facts
supported them ; but Hon. Members should not have reason
to complain that they had been deprived in a matter of the
opportunity of contradicting it if possible.—( Hear, hear,)
The Government had had, before now, to consolidate offices.
Since Parliament had last met, he had had to conso idatc two
most important offices ' • that was a painful duty to him, be-
cause it affected the future prospects of an individual; but
when the Government laid before the House the consolida-
tion which they had made, he would invite Hon. Gen-
tlemen to say whether, in those arrangements, favouritism
had taken place—whether there had been any discharging of
old servants for the purpose of placing in their stead new ones,
as long as they had been competent to perform the duties of
their of ice.--( Cheering.) The consolidation of offices had
taken place in the Government of Lord Grey, and persons who
had been in the public service had been discharged on the prin-
ciple, that they were incompetent to perform their duties. In the
present case it was entirely a matter for investigation whether
this individual was or was not properly competent to fill the
situation he had had. If he was, then Government certainly
had no right to appoint a successor; but if he was not corn,
potent, then he would say, in contradiction to the Gallant
Officer, that it would be the worst possible economy to
continue this officer, who was incompetent to perform his
duty, in his office, merely for the purpose of saving
a few pounds of expenses. He hoped, as far as the Govern..
ment was concerned, that it would be considered that they
had met this case fairly. They were willing to give all the
information that could be required, and to meet it before any tri-
bunal it might suit the convenience of the House to appoint.
With this explanation, he trusted that the House would not
agree with the observations that had been thrown out by the
Hon. Baronet.

Mr. ROBINSON hoped that the question would be settled
on general grounds, and not with reference to the case of any
particular individual. He agreed in theobservations made by
the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that if the incompetency of
this person was fully established, it would be wrong to keep
him in his situation for the purpose of saving a few pounds.
—(Hear.) But he maintained, on the other hand, that the
statements of the worthy Baronet were strictly correct with re-
spect to this gentlemap„ and if such were the case—if this
gentleman was able to perform the consolidated duties of the
office, it would be a dereliction of duty on the part of the Go-
vernment if they placed another individual in his room, giving
him a larger income, and saddling the country with another
pension.—(Cheers.) He should watch the conduct of his
Majesty's Government with great jealousy, as the onus pro-
bandi lay upon them to prove the incompetency of this gen-
tleman. _ _

..-........
Mr. SINCLAIR, on the part of Sir Henry Jardine, whom
he was proud to call his friend, was authorised to give his
most unqualified contradiction to the charges that had been
brought against him, as to the manner in which he had dis-
charged the duties of his office. Sir Henry Jardine courted
investigation, and he held in his hand a testimonial from the
late Chief Baron, who stated that no man had more efficiently
discharged the duties of his office than that gentleman.
Mr. PRINGLE, on the part of the other Gentleman who
had been alluded to (the Lord Treasurer's Remembrancer),
would state, that he had on all occasions discharged his duty
in the most efficient manner. He was a man in the prime of
life, and no charge of incompetency could be brought against
him on that score.--(Loud cries of " Hear" from the Oppo-
sition benches.)
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.

Mr. BROTHE ftl'ON having been called upon by the
Speaker, was greeted on his rising by loud cries of " Hear,"
from all sides of the House. He commenced by observing
that the motion which he had now the honour to submit to the
consideration of the House was in his judgment so necessary,
so reasonable, and so important, that he could not anticipate
any opposition to it.—( Hear, and laughter.) He should
only trespass on the indulgence of the House for a very few
minutes, while he stated the grounds on'which he claimed their
support. No one could deny that the late sitting of the House
had been very injurious in its effects to the health of the Mem-
bers, and particularly that of their Speaker, who was compelled
to remain there on all such occasions to a very late hour. He
had no hesitation in stating that the interests of the country
would be promoted if midnight legislation was entirely
put an end to.—( Hear, hear, hear.) No legislative assembly
that he (Mr. Brotherton) knew of in any part of the world
transacted its business at night, and he saw no reason why
that House should be an exception to all others by 'continuing
its late sittings. He was aware that an objection might be
raised to any fixed hour for the adjournment of a debate, but
it was well known that, at present, many hours were wasted
upon the question of adjourning and dividing upon that
motion.—( Hear, hear.) His plan was free from objection,
because he only proposed not to enter upon any new matter
after twelve o'clock, and he hoped the House would adopt for-
mally that change which, as far as he was able to effect it, he