The Sun.
London, England, 1830-06-11 00:00:00

laughed at. -Altei a : brief recapitulation of his
various arguments', and. ebserVing, that when he
formerly addressed the Hcruse on the subject it was
merely for leave to bring in a :Bill to allow the
Catholics to vote tit Parish-Vestries, but that now
his objeet was to relieve .the-: Protestants of the
Established Church as wella's the Protestant Dis-
senters, the lion. and.Leetned Gentleman concluded
by moving for " leave to bring in a Bill to repeal so
much of the several Statutes in force in Ireland as
enabled Parish Vestries to assess rates for the build-
ing, rebuilding, and enlarging of Churches aad
Chapels; and also for the repairing of the chancel
of Churches, and also for providing things necessary ;
for the Churches, and also for providing things ne-
cessary for the celebration of divine service therein."
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
had laboured under an erroneous notion that this
motion was not to be brought forward that night,
and was therefore hot prepared to follow the Hon.
and Learned Member for Clare into all the details ;
into which he had entered. On a former occasion
he had stated that his Majesty's Government felt
the necessity of some revision of the statutes in
question. The letter which he had written when
he was Chief Secretary, and to which the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman had referred, evinced that con-
viction. A measure for the purpose was at present
in preparation, and lie had reason to believe would,
at an early period, be submitted to the House. The
Hon. and Learned Member had complained of the
difference of the law in England and Ireland with
respect to Catholics voting at vestries. He would
not go back with the Hon. and Learned Gentleman
to ancient times. He would forbear from adverting
to those periods when there was a mutual jealousy
between Catholics and Protestants. Rather than
do that, he would even leave the imputations which
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had thrown on
the Protestants unanswered. But he would tell the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman, that though there
were -distinct laws relating -to the building and re-
building of churches in Ireland, they were not all
peculiar to that country. The Hon. and Learned
Gentleman must knoW that in England the right of
imposing rates- was vested in an Ecclesiastical Tri-
bunal. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman had
thought fit to complain of the Bill which had been
drawn up by his Mile Friend Lord Plunkett, and
which he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had
introduced for regulating the vestry rates in Ireland.
lie could assure the Hon. and Learned Gentleman
that he had no wish to shield himself from any re-
sponsibility to which that measure might subject
him. It was in his opinion a great amendment of
the existing law. It was a great relief to those •
whose cause the Hon. and Learned Gentleman advo-
cated. To excite an impression against the law
which he was so desirous to overturn, the Hon. arid
Learned Gentleman went over all the preceding
obnoxious occurrences, and adduced those evils
as an argument against a bill—the object of
which was to correct them, and which :did
correct them. The Honourable and Learned
Gentleman contended that it was monstrous to
compel an appellant to state the causes of his appeal
and to sign the document in which it was contained.
But why not ? Was. the appellant to leave those
against whom he appealed in the dark 'on the.sub-
ject of.his appeal, up .to the moment when it came
to be considered? And when the Hon. and
Learned Gentleinab said that the law compelling
an appellant to sign his appeal was made to include,
those who could not sign their numes,it 'was surely
unnecessary to remind him that there were modes
by which such persons could authorise others to sign
fur him. There were two objects which ought to
be secured ; the one to guard against the imposition
of excessive rates—the other to prevent persons by
a vexatious opposition from defeating a just and le-.
gitimate rate. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman',
mentioned that the. churches should be repaired at
the expence of the incumbents of 'the several pa-,
'rishes. That was not consonant with the practice
of-former periods; and' *heti' the proper time came;
he Would assign his' rettieir4 ?or ,disaenring from the
proposition. For the preientl he' should'rekisv the
motion as he had resisted it -when it was' formerly
brought forward. Although the terms of it were
different, it would lead to the same result.
Mr. SPRING RICE said he would trouble the
House for only a few minutes. He confessed that
in a considerable part of the statements of the Right
Hon. Gentleman he entirely concurred ; but not in
that with which the Right 1-ion. Gentleman had
closed those statements. 'lf the basis of the view
taken by his Hon. and Learned Friend-the Member
for Clare: hid been that the abuses which existed
antecedently to the Right Hon. Gentleman's Act
were occasioned by:that Act, he would admit that
tl'e view would have been uncandid. That, how
ever, was; not the view which his Hon. and Learned
Friend had token. But many'"molt grievous abuses
which existed prior to tne passing of the Act re 7
mained uncorrected by that Act, although they
were not occasioned 'by it. The abuses of parish
vestries remained so uncorrected, and in that so-
spect further relief was requirel Ott that point,
therefore, the Right Hon. Gentleman and he dif-
fered. On a former occasion he had expressed hit
wish that the desired reform might be undertaken
by Governtnent, and that the subject should he con-
ducted by a member of the established church, re',
cher than by one who was not a member of that
church. Not that he did not believe that the Hon.
and Learned Gentleman would not exhibit perfect
fairness in any Bill which he might introduce on
the point; but to prevent misapprehensions and
jealousy, it was undoubtedly desirable that the mea-
sure should be brought forward by an individual who
belonged to the established church. On a former
occasion he (Mr. Spring Rice) had said, that if
his Majesty's Government, instead of vague decla-
rations, would pledge themselves to seine distinct
measure, he and his Right Hon. Friend, the Mesh-
ber for Waterford, and others who thought with
them, would most cheerfully leave the subject in
their hands and support them with their vote. But
Government refused to give any such pledge. They
said then, as the Right Hon. Gentleman said now,
that they had some measure under consideration,
but would give no distinct pledge respecting it.
What was the result of that conduct on their part ?-
The present motion. Approaching the close of a
Session in which petitions had been presented shoW-
ing the jealousy which existed in every parish in behind
on the subject, and-in which, nevertheless, nothing had
been done respecting it, the only consolation which the
Members for Ireland had to communicate to their
.consti-
tuents was, that they were assured by his Majesty's Go-
vernment that some measure was under consideration.
He willingly allowed that the letter of the Right Hon.
Gentleman which had been alluded to, evinced a disposi-
tion on his part to correct ;he abuses which existed. But
that letter was written thne years ago ; and nothing fur-
ther had been done. Under those circumstances, be did
not think that they would discharge their duty to their
constituents and to the country at large, if they allowed
mere time to elapse without endeavouring to obtain a re-
form of those abuser. having said so much as to the
necessity of.a reform, he must proceed to say, that he dif-
fer,al from his Hon. and Learned Friend as to the kind of
reform which it was desirable to establish. When, on a
former occasion, his Hon. and Learned Friend had pro-
posed -that Roman Cathorcs and Protestants should tie
equally admitted into parish vestries in Ireland, he (Mr.
Spring Rice) objected to the preposition. He obiteted to
it still. For although he hoped the tiiae would coins
when Roman Catholics and Protestants might be so unind
without evil orinconvenienee, he slid not think that it was
as yet -advisable to make that particular alteration in the
existing law. He was quite aware of the inconveniences
and abuses that remained to be corrected on the subject ;of
appeals; but he could never consent to appeals without
securities. To allow of such appeals would be to open die
door to endless litigation. Securities there must be; hut
care ought to be taken that those securities should not be
such as would prevent I gitimate appeals; and That they
• should be only such as would' prevent vexatious or delusive
appeals. The remedies' which it appeired to him wee,
calculated to correct the existing evil, he had more thitn
once stated in that House ; aid he had obtained the csin-
currence of the Right Hon. Secretary of State for title
Home Department in his views. The principal point lot
"the Bill which ho should wish introduced, was, in fut4re
lea,es, to throw the payment of the rate on the landlords ;
as in the litho Ceinnositioa Act; and hi would einbod).