The Sun.
London, England, 1837-11-13 00:00:00

the Protestant Dissenter could ask for, and that party
amongst them were perfectly satisfied with the schools
as now conducted. With regard to the ,Protestant
Dissenters generally, they would not be likely, in any
national system of education, to attach much impor-
tance to the arrangements made with respect to the Sab-
bath day, provided there was no compulsion ; for he believed
they were in the habit of attending to their own families
on that day, and taking them to their own places of worship,
whiell be thought a much better plan than sending them to
public schools to be conducted to church or chapel en masse.
The Council had, therefore, provided for the wants of
Churchmen and Protestant Dissenters ; but they had also
provided for the wants of the Roman Catholics. It was
hardly necessary for him to enter into any defence of the
system, as opening the schools to Roman Catholics, because
it was made a prominent ground of attack against them that
they bad thrown open the doors of the schools to Roman
Catholics. The Roman Catholic children were not com-
pelled. to learn or to attend to any thing to which the con-
scientious convictions of their parents led them to object.
Whether those convictions were well founded or not, the
Council had no right to discuss. They were bound to re-
spect conscience, even when it could be proved to be in
error ; and no man, under any circumstances ought to be
compelled to do that for his children to which he had a
conscientious objection,—whether well founded or ill, it
was for himself, and not for the public, to discuss.—( Hear.)
it might be said that all this was mere theory—that expe-
rience bad proved that these schools VVere not acceptable to
a large portion of the community.—(Hear, hear, from the
Opposition.) He was prepared to rebut that assertion by
facts. It was true that in the North School a preponde-
rating number of the children were Roman Catholics, and,
it was not to be wondered at that it was the case, consi-
dering the great exertions that had been made to excite an
unfavourable opinion with regard to these schools in the
minds of Protestants generally.—( Hear, hear.) The won-
der was that so many came to the schools as did, but the
case had been altering materially of late ; the plain common
sense of the community had gradually overcome the influ-
ence that had been exerted upon it. It had been discovered
that various prejudices and apprehensions were unfounded ;
it had been found that the children were receiving a valu-
able education and sustaining in no respect any injury what-
soever, and the number of Protestant children attending
the North School had greatly and, rapidly increased.—
(Hear.) In the South School there was about an equal
proportion of Protestants and Roman Catholics, and, of the
two, rather more Protestants. In the North School the
number of the Catholics was greater, but the disproportion
was continually on the decrease. According to a recent
return there were in the boys' and girls' schools 549 Ro•
man Catholic children, and 154 Protestants ; in the infant
school there were 100 Protestants—so that in the North
School, though there was an immense preponderance of Ro-
man Catholics residing in the neighbourhood, who stood in
need of education, there were now 250 Protestant children
in constant attendance, which was a decisive proof that the
prejudice against the schools was dying away.—(Hear.) In
theory, in principle, and in practice, therefore, these schools
were calculated for the general benefit of the whole commu-
nity, and with great piopriety they might be supported by
the public fands.• On these grounds, therefore, he moved
that the Education Committee be now re-appointed.—
(Loud applause.)
Mr. JORDAN seconded the motion.
Mr. C. LAWRENCE was quite aware how the business
might be expected to end. Ho therefore begged leave to
move that these schools be sold. At the same time he was
quite sensible what fate awaited the motion. . A very great
proportion of the population of this town were of the same
opinion, as some few of them (Mr. Lawrence and his
friends) there. He did it merely from a conscientious feel-
ing. He rose to propose that the Committee to be ap-
pointed, instead of being what was called an Education
Committee, that that Committee be appointed. He should
say that (residing from a paper) inasmuch as the Corpora-
tion schools had been the occasion of great ill and conten-
tion, and the mode of conducting them was not likely to
be' satisfactory to the public altogether, it was advisable
that the same should be sold, and that the Committee now
formed be denominated a School Committee, for the pur-
pose of reporting to the Council the best mode of carrying
into effect of this resolution. --
Mr. SHAND seconded the amendment.
Mr. J..SMITII handed in a memorial from the " Conser-
vative Burgesses" of West Derby Ward, solemnly protest-
ing against the introduction of the Irish system into Eng-
land as a gratuitous assault on the established religion of the
country, and calling upon the• Council to sell the schools as
the only fair, honest, and impartial course which they could
adopt.
Mr. G. H. Lawaerscg supported the amendment, as
suggesting the only remedy for the unhappy state of things
in which they were now placed by the Council's persever-
ance in this system of Irish education. They ought to re-
trace their steps on this question, as being contrary to the
principles and conscientious views of the members of the
Church Establishment. They surely deserved some. little
Consideration, being supported by almost every clergyman
belonging to the establishment. He was sure they would
restore peace to the town by retracing their steps,, and, above
all, they would do away with religious agitation. They
(the Tories) never wished to make an election tool of the
Bible.—(Laughter, and loud cries of "oh! oh I") He was
sorry that its influence shauld be removed, and hoped it was
not too late to reconsider the question.
Mr. Aldermen Brown suggested that the memorials in
filvour of the schools presented at the last Council should
now be read.
The MAYOR thought this hardly necessary, as they were
read at the time.
Mr. EARLE did not wonder at. all, now that the tide was
setting the other way, that the opponents of the schools
should wish them to be disposed of.—(Hear, hear.) The
tide had now come to the Council's side of the nuestior,
and hence the wish that the schools should be disposed of.
(Laughter tied applause.)
Mr. BoLro,f was astonished to hear it raid by any gen-
tleman capable of iefketion that the schools should be dis-
posed of for the sake of peace and quietness. If that prin-
ciple had always been acted upon, neither Parliamentary
nor Municipal Reform would have been obtained—all that
was bad and corrupt would be suffered to remain unaltered
—and no amelioration of the institutions of the country could
be procured. lie thought Liverpool peculiarly adapted
for the introduction of this system, on account of the large
proportion of Irish inhabitants of the working classes, who
had not the means of educating their children. He con-
tended that the Protestant children derived greater advan-
tages from these schools than those of
.any other class, inas-
much as they were provided with sittings in the Churches
of the Establishment on Sunda,s. lie was most strongly
opposed to the idea of selling the eei.:ol2-
Mr. WALIISLE,Y would merely make one remark upon
the memorial. It commenced by asserting that the Irish
system had been introduced into these schools. h.. beFged
to state that the Irish system of education had not ben
introduced into the schools, but merely the Irish extracts.
Mr. DAVID HODGSON should have been very happy on
this his first introduction into the Council, if on this
question he and his friends bad been in a different situ-
ation, for he apprehended, with the Honourable Coun-
cilor who had moved the amendment, that it must serve
but as a protest. He should under other circumstances I
have been almost content to continue in silence, and to
await in patience a more suitable and more favourable
opportunity for coining forward with the various argu-
ments that might be used,—an opportunity when he should
by practice have attaieed• a greater efficiency in expressing
his sentiments,—a greater facility in communicating them,
—and a better chance of grappling with the eloquence
and superior manner, from habit 'and natural powers, of
stating the case, such as Mr. Blackburn had just exhi-
bited, than he felt he should now have. Conscientiously
feeling, however, as he did feel on this deeply important
subject, he could not allow the opportunity of offering
his protest to pass without expressing, imperfectly as he
might express, some few sentiments on this subject ; if he
understood the ground on which the lii li system was in-
troduced into this town, it was, that Co
the uncil might
include all parties, in order, through that conciliation, to
give effect to a better system of education. Now, notwith-
standing what Mr. Blackburn had said with regard to the
late election—and far be it from him (Mr. Hodgson) to
throw down any thing that night be considered as a matter
of discord on so deeply interesting a subject—apart from
either municipal election or political question, lie would
ask that gentleman, and he would ask the whole Council,
what conciliation had been the result? Had it not been a
bone of contention, separating the very bonds of society ?
Had it not separated those who, for the last half century,
had been engaged in the turmoils of hostile electioneering,
—who had not yet been able to unite Hear, hear.)
Had it not changed the character of this town, which had
hitherto been known and famous for the healing of the tem-
porary discord that electioneering parties had occasioned
during the period of the election ? Had it not been pre-
viously remarkable how little these had been recollected,
and how soon the wound, if any, had been healed? But
was it so now ?—(Hear.) Was not discord prevailing from