The Sun.
London, England, 1863-02-28 00:00:00

come forward and protest against what was now taking
place in Poland. It ought not to be content with protest-
ing, but ought to induce the other Powers of Europe to

join with England in making a protest not only against
what had passed but against the barbarities which Russia
would perpetrate should she succeed. Russia had treated

Poland with scandalous cruelty and shameful insult as welt.
She had most resolutely set herself to crush Poland under

the heel of an iron despotism, and, if possible, to break the

spirit of a most gallant people. (Hear.) He thought that

protest would not bo without avail, as the Russians were
singularly sensitive to the public opinion of Europe. If
the Powers of Europe joined in such a protest, the Empe-
ror himself would immediately feel his position on finding
that all civilised countries were against him. The hon.
gentleman denounced the conduct of Prussia, and referred
to the state of feeling in France as most favourable ifor a
joint protest, in which Spain, Turkey, and Austria might
join, with a view of urging upon Russia a more wise and
gentle policy toward Poland in times to come. (Cheers.)
Mr. M. MILNES hoped the house fully estimated the
importance of the question, because upon their view of
the matter would depend the conduct of the Government in
regard to following any propositions of the Emperor of
the French, or in initiating any measures of their own.
The Government would do well to follow the opinions of
the house, because on this question no Government would
be authorised to act entirely on their own responsibility
or private opinions. It could only act with safety and
with honour by obtaining the full support of the house
and the country, not only in any measure which they might
take, but in any consequences which might result. It was
no secret that this question was now deeply agitating the
French people, who were ready to support their Emperor
in any measures whatever with regard to Poland, even
though they might ultimately induce an appeal to arms.
It therefore became the house to consider whether it was
their duty to support any proposition for possible interven-
tion which might be made to us by the Emperor of the
French. He could not think that the treaty of Vienna had
any other sense than:as determining the common consent of
all the Powers at that period that Poland should enjoy in a
certain degree a separate and certainly a comparatively free
Government, though there was no doubt that Lord Caitle-
reagh was aware of the difficulties which encumbered the
question the moment a free Poland was attached to a des-
potic Russia. All the evils which had been anticipated had
daily increased. He could not agree that Polish revolution
of 1830 was unjustifiable. It had been provoked by syste-
matic injuries and insults. The Emperor of Russia had
taken advantage of that outbreak, though it had never been
diplomatically stated, to consider that the treaty of Vienna
had been cancelled, and that thereafter she held domination
over Poland by simple right of conquest. He could not ad-
mit that doctrine for several reasons, and mainly that what-
ever might be the immediate relations between Poland and
Russia, that Russia by the treaty of Vienna had contracted
such obligations towards the other Powers of Europe
as would justify them in telling her that she had no right
at the present time when the wisdom of the moment had
taught us that to hold a recalcitrant nation by pure force
was not only impolitic in itself, but intolerable in its conse-
quences, to keep Poland in a continual state of chronic in-
surrection--that she had no right to impose that condition
of disturbance upon her neighbours, Austria and Poland—
and no right to do so as regarded the common peace of
Europe. Looking at the question of interposition from
another point of view, he would call the attention of the
house to a somewhat parallel state of things in the history
of Europe. In the year 1809 the Tyrolese were attacked
by the combined armies of France and Bavaria, They made
an appeal to England, at that time under a Tory Govern-
ment not supposed to give countenance to anything like
insurrection. With the leave of the house he would read a
sentence from the answer made on that occasion to the de-
puties of the Tyrol by the Government of England. Lord
Bathurst, after expressing regret at the event, said :
" When submission is in effect more hazardous than resis-

tance, or when the danger attending on both are nearly ba-
lanced, a brave nation may be encouraged justifiably to
prefer the latter alternative." The noble lord went on to
say that, " when there really was danger of defeat, it was
not for those who were not to participate in the danger to
counsel others to incur it. Should the oppressed nation,
however, decide upon resistance, his Majesty's Government
could not refrain from giving some testimony of the inte-
rest which he took in the issue of a contest too unequal, he
feared, to be availing, but which was just." The character of
the Russian nation was well known, and their calm and cool

headed statesmen would, of course, treat the expression

of British public opinion for just what it was worth. He
(Mr. Mines), however, really believed it was worth some-

thing, and in two ways—(hear)--for, as an hon. gentleman
had remarked, Russia was not quite unamenable to public
opinion. The Russian Government were now conscious
that they could no longer act with all the astuteness of the
West and all the barbarism of the East. (Hear.) The
Czar knew now that the newspaper was not confined to the
Russian capital, bat that it found its way to the remotest
portion of his dominions. Russia was conscious, too, that
she was perpetrating a crime which was alike injurious to
her prosperity and her reputation. If to the deep feeling
of the English nation were added the enthusiasm of the
French, it appeared to him that a force of public opinion
would bo raised which could not be regarded in vain.
(Cheers.) He thought if overtures were made to her Ma-
jesty's Government to express—if it were not too strong a
word—the indignation—(cheers)—of the English nation
he believed the Government would not misrepresent either
that house or the country. The Russian Government
would, no doubt, attempt to justify their proceedings, but
then it was will known that apologists had been found for
the massacre of St. Bartholomew and the Sicilian Vespers.
In fact, every coup d'etat that had ever taken place had its
side of reason. The Russian excuse for seizing numbers of
men in their beds in the middle of the night was that the

Government were afraid the people would cause a national
insurrection. But why should the Government have feared
that ? who drove the people into that state of mind ?
(Hear.) Although he had no doubt the military power of
Russia must make her successful in this unhappy struggle,
yet our interposition might, at any rate, shorten a state of
things which was most horrible and detestable to this coun-
try. (Cheers.)
Mr. WALTER said he had paid great attention to the
eloquent speech of the hon. member for King's County
(Mr. Hennessy) ; but he was surprised to hear that the
language of the last part of the resolution did not mean
anything but diplomatic interference. (Hear.) He
would express no opinion upon whether this was or was
not the right moment for an armed interference; but if the
words of the resolution meant anything at all, they meant
war, and it was important the house should bear that in
mind. England ought not to counsel her Sovereign to use
language she did not mean to give effect to. (Hear.)
Mr. DENMAN expressed himself in similar terms, and
said he should have 'imposed to substitute for all the words
after "demand," in the last paragraph, "the serious and
immediate consideration of her Majesty's Government."
He thought the hands of the Government should be
strengthened to express the sympathy of the English people
with the miseries and cruelties inflicted upon the unhappy
Poles ; but he did not at all agree that the negotiations
should be commenced with an avowed stipulation that un-
der no circumstances whatever of violence or cruelty were
we to go to war. The Poles had the sympathy of the whole
country, and of the whole of that house, except perhaps the
member for North Warwickshire, whose judgment had
been somewhat warped by the fact that the Poles were a
Roman Catholic people. But was the hon. gentleman
unaware that it was in countries oppressed like Poland,
that the Jesuits and their agents possessed greater influence
than in countries that were happy and free ? (Cheers.)
Lord FERMOY thought, if our interference was to be
limited to the expression of our opinion, the less nervous or
shy we were in the expression of that opinion the better.
(Hear, heitr.) He had no doubt that if England, France,
and Austria made a remonstrance to Russia to the effect
that she might take her choice, either to fulfil the terms of
the treaty of Vienna with regard to Poland, or be prepared
to give that country its freedom. By adopting such a course
they would obtain the gratitude of the Polish people, and'
praise of the world. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. S. FITZGER AID commenced by compimenting
the hon. member for King's County, for the judgment,
discretion, and ability with which he brought the subject 1
before the house. This question of Poland had been sup-
posed
in former times to belong to politicians who had be •
co me remarkable for their enthusiasm, but now the question
had entered into a different phase, and instead of being a
question only fit for enthusiasts, there was no more practical
and urgent question demanding the attention of the states-
men of Europe than the present position of the Polish
nation. (Cheers.) And it became still more important
when we considered that the solution of the question rested
with her Majesty's Government. He did not remember an
occasion when greater responsibility devolved upon her
Majesty's Government. If they turned to France, they
found the journals of that country expressing in burning
language their enthusiasm and sympathy in the cause of
Poland ; and who could say but that the public opinion of
France might become too strong to be overruled by the
Government of that country ? And then indeed events
might take place, the importance of which it was impossible
to form any jest appreciation. If events of such a nature
were to occur would it not be a source of humiliation that
they were the consequence of the over caution of the House
of Commons and a Liberal Government. (Hear.) It should
never be supposed that Austria, whatever her feelings,
could take the initiative upon a question of that kind. He
felt convinced that if this country were to unite with
France, Austria would zealously co-operate with them
in obtaining justice for Poland. Some hon. members on
the opposite side had found fault with the terms of the re-
solution ; but he could only say it had his entire approval ;
he wished it to be an influential expression of their opinion,
and that anaddress to the Crown was the best means of in-
suring that object. He had seen a distinguished Pole that
day, who told him he had never despaired that this country
would be one day restored to the family of nations. Let the
louse not disappoint that expectation. (Cheers.)
Mr. STAN SFELD thanked Mr. Fitzgerald for the gene-
rous words he had uttered. It was possible that the bestir.
rection might be quenched in blood, but some spark of life
would be sure to be left behind ; and sooner or later the
smouldering fire must burst into a flame, and be followed
by a European conflagration. Action on the part of the
Government of England was imperative; but he did not
see how this country could commit itself by going back