The Sun.
London, England, 1837-02-11 00:00:00

POOR LAWS.

Mr. WALTER wished to repeat a question he had put
before to the Secretary for the Home Department, on
the subject of the operation of the Poor Law Bill. He did
not wish to interfere with the business of Government
or with the notices of other Honourable Gentlemen ;
but he was desirous that a day should be fixed
for the discussion of this important subject. If the Noble
Lord would not find the day for which he had given no-
tice of bringing it forward a convenient one, he would
have no objection to postpone it till Wednerday the
22d ; but if no other opportunity was afforded him, he
would introduce the subject when the House was in a
Committee of Supply, as in his opinion a redress of
grievances should take precedence of a grant to the Crown.
Lord J. RUSSELL was understood to say that he
would have no objection, whenever the Hon. Member
brought the subject under the notice of the House, to have
it referred to a Committee, for the purpose of inquiring into
the operation of the Poor Law Bill.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL, in answer to a question put
by Mr. Trevor, stated that the subject of the Coroners for
the county of Durham was under consideration, that it
was the intention of Government to bring in a Bill in re-
ference to it ; but he could not conveniently enter into
details at present.

SMALL DEBTS (SCOTLAND) BILL.
Upon the motion of the LORD ADVOCATE th•
Small Debts (Scotland) Bill was read a secoad time, and
ordered to be committed.
RECORDERS' COURT BILL.

Upon the Order of the Day being read, the SOLI-
CITOR-GENERAL moved that the Recorders' Court
Bill be read a second time.

Upon the motion that it be read a second time,
Mr. HARVEY said there was much novelty, much
expense, and much violation of important principle con-
nected with this Bill. He wished particularly to
draw the attention of his Majesty's Attorney-General to
it, and to know if it had his sanction. The Bill
proposed to give to the Recorder the power and authority
to appoint a deputy when the business of the Court re-
quired a sitting of more than three days, the day of the
opening of the Court to be considered as one which could
not fail to be highly objectionable. The expense was to
be paid out of the funds of the Corporation, and if those
funds were insufficient, a rate was to be levied for the purpose
on the town, which likewise was open to great objection.
"He trusted that before this Bill was suffered to pass, what
he had said would secure the attention of the House, and
induce the law officers of the Crown to see that it was not
hurried through that House without receiving that consi-
deration that a matter connected with the administration
of justice required.
Mr. \VORTLEY supported the Bill. He could as-
sure the Hon. Gentleman, that so far from throwing a
greater expence on the borough, it would be a relief to time
witnesses, to the prosecutor, to the jury, and to the borough
itself. Ile hoped, therefore, they would allow the Bill to
be read a second time.

Mr. O'CONNELL thought it would be agahu

the principles of law and justice to allow the Bill to
be passed into a law. It might be well enough
to allow the Councils to appoint a locum k-
nells for the Recorder ; but to allow the Judge
to appoint his own deputy was a power which would
never be allowed in superior Courts. Let him suppose
that Lord Denman was to appoint a Deputy Chief Jus-
tice of Englacd, he would be very apt to lose whatever
glory he had acquired by proscribing that House as a
publisher of libels.—(A laugh.) He must certainly vote
against the Bill.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL did not object to the general
objects of the Bill.—(Cheers.) He thought that, in such
cases as that of Leeds, it was proper and necessary that
a deputy might be required (Hear, hear) but he
thought, also, that there was great force in the objection
taken by the Hon. Member for Southwark: If the case
was one of necessity, of economy, or of expediency, the
council ought to have a power to appoint a Deputy Recorder.
It better be left in their hands. Ile hoped therefore the Hon.
Member would consent so to alter the Bill as to allow the
power to be lodged in the hands of the Council.—(Hear.)
After a few words from Mr. BaislEs, Mr. WoRTLEv,
and Mr. D. W. HARVEY, the Bill was read a second time,
and ordered to be committed this day week.
The Sheriffs' Court Bill was then, on the motion of
Captain PECH EL L, read a second time.
EDUCATION IN IRELAND.
Lord STANLEY said he had a question to ask the
Secretary for the Home Department, or the Noble Lord,
the Irish Secretary. It was, if it was the intention of Go-
vernment in the present Session to move for a Committee
of inquiry, as to the practical working of the present
system of education in Ireland..—(Hear, hear.) He
was not now bound to enter at length into the ques-
tion ; but his Noble Friend knew that that system
was an experiment, and it was of importance to
know whether it worked well or not. A sufficient
time had elapsed since the system had been first
set on foot in order to afford sufficient materials in
the shape of evidence, to show how far it worked
well. He was aware, also, that there were conflicting opi-
nions on the subject, and he wished therefore to know if
Government would move fora Committee of Inquiry into the
working oldie system—if not he would give an early notice
to that effect.

---- --
Lord—JOHN RUSSELL said, in reply to the question
of the Noble Lord, he should express his opinion that in
almost any legislation for Ireland the question of
good education for the whole people should be
considered. Ile thought, therefore, with his Noble
Friend, that the system spoken of should bo inquired in-
to and investigated—that its operation should be fully
considered, in order that the House might see whe-
ther it was desirable to persevere in or abandon that
system. It was therefore his intention on an early day to
propose a Committee for inquiring into the subject of
General Education in Ireland.—(Hear.) In expressing
that opinion he felt bound to say that lie believed the
present system worked well, and that those under whose
management it was conducted, had acted so as to deserve
the thanks of the coTmunity.
Mr. M'LEAN wished to know if the Noble Lord
would include in the inquiry the subject of education in the
College of Maynooth.
Lord s. RUSSELL—His Majesty's Government have no
intention of proposing any such inquiry.—( Hear.)
Mr. HUM E said that if such an inquiry were proposed
with respect to the College of Maynooth, he should ask whe-
ther it were intended to extend the inquiry to the Universities
of Oxford and Cambridge ?—(Cheers and laughter.) It
would be conceded by every Member of that House, that if
the people of Ireland were interested in the system of educa-
tion adopted in the College of Maynooth, the people in this
country were equally interested in that which prevailed at
Oxford and Cambridge.—( Hear, hear.) Therefore, if an
inquiry were to be instituted into the system at Maynooth,
as there %cere a great many who feared that an inquiry into
the system at Oxford and Cambridge would be as strongly
called for—( Hear)—he asked the Noble Lord whether the in-
quiry would he extended to these Universities?
Lord J. RUSSELL thought it would be better were any
allusion to Oxford and Cambridge withheld until the Right
Hon. Member for the University of Oxford brought forward
the message of which he had given notice.
Mr. W. S. O'BRIEN asked whether, if inquiry were in-
stituted into the system at Maynooth, it would be extended to
the University of Dublin ?—(" Hear, hear," and laughter.)
No answer was (as we heard) given to this question.
The Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Maclean) was proceeding again
to address the House, when
The SPEAKER rose, and put it to the HOn. Gentleman
whether it was consistent with the rules of order to pursue
the subject further, the Hon. Gentleman having put a ques-
tion which had received a distinct answer from the Noble Lord
Mr. O'CONNELL wished to know whether it was the in-
tentioll of his Majesty's Government to apply to the House for

any further grant to the college of Maynooth. Au inquiry
into that establishment had been fully gone into, on oath, be-
fore the Commissioners appointed for that and other purpoFes,
and which inquiry had occupied a period of three months.
If such an intention as that of further inquiry were entertained,
it would be strongly opposed by the Catholics of Ireland, who
would prefer rather that there should be no grant at all than
an increased one.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL would only say that lie thought
tic grant ought to be increased.
POOR LAWS (IRELAND).
On the motion of Lord JOHN RUSSELL, that part of
his Majesty's Speech which related to the consideration of the
subject or Poor Laws into Ireland was read, and the Noble
Lord gave notice that lie should move for leave to bring in
the Bill on Monday next.