The Sun.
London, England, 1863-06-02 00:00:00

BRAZIL.

In reply to Mr. S. FITZGERALD,
Mr, LAYARD replied that he this afternoon had laid
:he papers promised by him on the table of the house.
FORTIFICATIONS—SPITHEAD.

In reply to Sir J. ELPHINSTONE,
Lord PALMERSTON intimated that he purposed
shortly making a statement with respect to fortifications,
when he should state the intentions of the Government
with respect to Spithead.
INLAND REVENUE BILL.
On the motion that this bill as amended be considered,
Mr. HUNT moved the omission of dense 21, and the sub-
stitution in its stead of a new clause, making the censent of
one justice sufficient in granting occasional licenses to sell
beer, spirits, or wine, and extending the operation of such
licenses from sunrise to one hour after sunset, and, on occa-
sions of public dinners or balls, to such hours Is the justices
may allow.
Mr. AYRT ON objected to the alteration.
supported
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQ
it, on the ground that it was a rational amendment in the
UER
law. From 9,000 to 10,000 licenses had been taken out since
the law same into operation, and he did not believe there
was a single case in which mischief had resulted from them.
The clause was then read a first time.
On the question that the clause be read a second time,
Mr. DODSON proposed, as an amendment to the clause,
that after the word " license," at the end thereof, to add, in
lieu of the duty of ss. now chargeable, there shall be charge-
able for every occasional license the sum of 2s. 6d.
After some discussion, on the suggestion of the CHAN
CELLOR of the EXCHEQUER it was agreed that the
clause should stand over.
On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHE-
QUER, the following clauses were agreed to : Ist. A clause
enacting that commissioners of taxes for any division of a
county may hold their meetings within an adjoining city
or other place of exclusive jurisdiction. 2d. A clause enact-
ing that income tax is to be deducted from coupons on stock
certificates, although the half-yearly payment is under 50s.
Mr. HUNT then moved that no mortgage, bond, in-
strument, or any assignment thereof, given by way of
security, in pursuance of the provisions of the twelfth
section of an act passed in the last session of Parliament,
intituled, " An Act for the Better management of High-
ways in England," nor any contract, or agreement, or
appointment of any officer, made or entered into in pur-
suance of any of the provisions of such last-mentioned act,
shall be charged or chargeable with any stamp duty what-
ever. The hen. member said that it was no doubt owing
to an oversight that the Highway Act of last session did
not continue this exemption, and he would remind the
house that the South Wales Highway Act did contain it.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER strongly
deprecated the pernicious example of exempting particular
individuals, or classes of individuals, from the operation of
the general law ; and at any rate if such exemption was to
be made as that now proposed, it ought to be embodied in a
particular bill on the subject rather than at the last stage of
a mere revenue bill,
After a long discussion, during which the proposal re-
ceived much support from the opposition members,
The house divided—
For the clause
Against •
146
Majority against the clause.. —3O
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then
moved the recommitment of the bill, in order to allow the
clause which had been passed in committee of ways and
means for the adjustment of the tax relating to railway ex-
cursion trains to be inserted. The right hon. gentleman
eet
also proposed another matter of a technical nature, with re-
gardarrangements, to the takingotuhteroef
wtheee tobacco license. ldieceynis:r.
takUm.ngdeorutptrhee-
e tabacco license, namely the sth of July; but in order to
thedayo nt which their
remedy the inconvenience under which publicans laboured,
htoebpamrorlicesedntsheaotn the
publicanslh oshouldf
October,
henceforth obtain
they obtained their beer and spirit license.
Lord R. CECIL objected to the present mode of proceed-
ing on the part of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and
said it was hardly fair towards those
tax on who were opposed
excursions to make the to
a
notice. present proposition without
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER could as-
sure the noble lord that he was not willing to do anything
without the sanction of the house, but he believed the
course he was now pursuing was for the
convenience of all
parties.

Sir J. FERGUSSON said the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer was entitled to every forbearance, as he had given
the parties interested in the matter the fullest opportunity of
stating their case.

The house then went into committee, Mr. Massey in the
chair.

The clause adjusting the tax relating to excursion trains
was then agreed to ; as was also the clause allowing publi-
cans to obtain the tobacco license on the same day they took
out their beer and spirit license.
The house resumed.
THE PATRIOTIC ASYLUM AT WANDSWORTH
—ALLEGED MISCONDUCT OF OFFICIALS.
Mr. J. A. SMITH asked the Under-Secretary of State
for War whether his attention had been drawn to the re-
port of the Patriotic Fund, and the causes of the resigna-
tion of the majority of the members of the ladies' committee
of the Royal Victoria Patriotic Asylum appointed in Ja-
nuary, 1862. He also called attention to the admission of
the late Sir G. C. Lewis, that a girl of sixteen years of age
had been flogged in that establishment, and farther, that
the conduct of the officials who had committed this act was
condoned by the executive committee ; and to inquire
what steps had been taken to prevent the recurrence
of such practices. The hon. gentleman called attention to
the lamentable event which had taken place on another oc-
casion, when a girl had been burned to death. The girl
who had been burned was not a pupil of the school, but a
servant. He believed the chaplain had no more right to
send the girl to solitary confinement than he had to impri-
son any member of that house. An inquiry had taken
place before a coroner and a jury, and a verdict of " Acci-
dental death" had been returned; but he knew the verdict
had been condemned by all the inhabitants of Wandsworth.
The lady superintendent was not at Wandsworth at the
time of the accident, and he thought it right to state that,
subsequently, two schoolmistresses had been dismissed for
alleged misconduct or neglect on the occasion. The
attention of the executive committee had been called
to the state of management of the school, and after some
discussion they appointed a ladies' committee to assist
them in the management of the school. A com-
mittee of 13 ladies had been appointed ; these ladies
applied themselves with great intelligence and industry
to an investigation into the state of matters in the school,
and the conclusion they arrived at was, that the moral dis-
cipline of the school was most unfortunate. Among other
things they found that a girl within a few months of 16
years of age had been flogged with a birch rod, under the
express orders of the chaplain. On another occasion two
girls had been sent to London by Capt. Fishbourne, the
senior hon. secretary, for the purpose of being mesmerised.
' (Laughter.) The ladies' committee reported that the punish-
ment in the school was unsuitable and revolting, and re-
commended the dismissal of the chaplain. The executive
committee, though paying respectful attention to manythings
in the ladies' report, declined to dismiss the chaplain; and
as a reason for this, they stated that everything the chaplain
had done was underithe direct sanction of the hon. secretary,
Capt. Fishbourne. It might be a good excuse for not dismis-
sing
the subordinate officers, but the allegations afforded a
good ground for the removal of Capt.Fishbourne. It appeared
to him that the position occupied by Capt. Fishbourne was
a very singular and anomalous one. Capt. Fishbourne was
called hon. secretary, but he was told that he received a
Wary amounting to as much as £730 a year. The hon.
member then called attention to the resignation of Lord
e_eleheater as chairman of the executive committee, which
;ela Drool is itself that things were not going on in a sa-
that as the
a.• °l7 manner. It was not his intention to say a word
tice of the noble lord t-t- -in bringing
trusted th..Zutahe hon. gentleman to whom had been en-
v% moment of the institution, but he thought
pnt the m,-(11°
child he wee I.:tin:Q." was the guardian of the soldier's
had
The iNfarcite "I" Bing
the matter under the no-
*of rikatltxsecretary for War. (Hear.)
hon. member
said that, though the
he should inform the em.,..'-`atiee• to hi • Patriotic F --••••43 t in, it was necessary
and was in no y uldtiki:eth.,TnanaFe t f the
men o
• Department ; and the late -
a question almost in the seantivteGeoro
wit: of the War
• stated that he wan not in any vrtQl; thliteftat,lrering
nagement of the school. It ai
responalus
ther stinctly
might be called the guardian of the soldier's
had no right to interfere, and it was leuer'os office
him to interfere with the management of thinsaseblio; `'""'
Sir J. PAKINGTON said the answer giesul.b,
noble lord was exactly what he had expected. As he had
the honour of being a member of the e • executive com-
mittee, the house would probably permit him t. otter a
few words of explanation, and he believed it would be
satisfactory both to the house and the hon. gentleman.
The executive committee had reason to be dissatisfied
with the unusual form in which the hon. gentleman had
Ilia was unusual in the shaped his question, and w
Par-
liamentary form of question. The hon, gentleman had also
given endue prominence to certain matters which had a ten-
dency to create a prejudice against the executive committee.

The flogging of the girl with a birch rod, alluded to by the
hon. gentleman, was an act which he did not stand up to
vindicate, either in his own name or in that of the executive
committee—(hear, hear)—and he begged to state that
steps had been taken to prevent the recurrence of any
such punishment. In the early days of the institution
several practices had been carried out which could
not be approved of; but he believed that no blame
attached to the lady superintendent or to the chaplain.
The management of the school was vested in the executive
committee, who had appointed from among their number a
house committee. The flogging of the girl had occurred as
far back as January, 1862 ; and it was in the beginning of
1862 that the melancholy accident had occurred, which
caused the death of the girl by fire. The hon. member for
Chichester had thought proper to impugn the verdict of
the jury, who returned accidental death; but he thought,
under the circumstances, no verdict was ever more
thoroughly justified. The hon. member had spoken of his
houses ofu ldanytbi know
anything
they could
did notn o tat
appeark e cogni-
zanceo nholding communications with some of the jurymen, who
stated they were not satisfied with the finding; but surely
thein hon.
that member
should
the face of the verdict. The hon. gentleman was correct in
saying that the event of last year led to the appointment
the executive committee of a committee of ladies, wi by
first
act was to differ in opinion with the executive committee tos
such an extent as to threaten to resign unless their recom-
mendations were carried out; and most of them were, how-
ever, adopted. At the commencement of the inquiry otbe
ladies, he regretted to say, adopted a course that was both
injudicious and uncourteons, by
communicating to the
committee that the majority of them would not continue
to act on the committee unless
dismissed the executive committee
the lady
superintendent and the chaplain.
That, of course, placed the committee in a painfully em-
barrassing position. It gave the committee the chance of
two alternatives, either to dismiss those persons because
the ladies' committee had told them to do so on pain
of losing their services ; or, on the other hand,
the committee, having a responsible duty to dis-
charge,
were to go judicially into the investigation of
their conduct, and come to such conclusion as their sense
of justice might dictate. They deeply regretted the inti-
mation they received from the ladies, but their determina-
tion was to . hear what the lady superintendent and the
chaplain bad to say, and dismiss them or not, as they
thought the justice of the case required. The inquiry lasted
from the beginning of March, till the 9th of May, when the
executive committee adopted a resolution disapproving of
the
. punishment that had been inflicted by the lady super-
rendent and the chaplain in some instances, but that under
_ circumstances of the new regulations that had been
adoptedc_ for the future superintendence and regulation of the
s 00l it was necessary to call on them to resign their situa-
c school it was necessary to call on them to resign their situa-
tions. That resolution was unanimously agreed to by the
members of the committee present, and it was confirmed
unanimously
at a subsequent meeting. The next step was
the presentation of the report, embracing the resolution, to
the Royal Commissioners; and Earl Grey, who was not
satisfied with the decision of the committee, moved a reso-
lution, expressing the • •
in
an opinion of the Royal Commissioners
opposite sense, viz,, that the two officials ought to
have been dismissed. The resolution was fully considered
by the Royal Commissioners present, and on a division
two
only supported it, and seven opposed ; the hon. mem-
ber for North Lancashire, who had accidently left the
room, )observed on his return that, if he had been present,
he should have
voted against it. Lord St. Leonaids was
one of of those who supported Earl Grey's resolution, and it
was but right to say that at a meeting of the Royal Com-
missioners held ten or fourteen days ago, Lord St. Leonards
said he had, since the motion above referred to was discussed,
gone over the establishment at Wandsworth, and he had
never
seen greater improvement in the building or a public
institution
in a more satisfactory condition. (Hear, hear.)
The executive committee had taken every precaution to
prevent a recurrence of what had occurred. They had
abolished
the sub-committee, and every thing now devolved
upon the executive eommittee which had been recast with
competent men. Regular monthly meetings had been estab-
lished at the asylum, together with weekly inspection by
the various members of the committee. He hoped, there-
fore, the hon. gentleman would admit that the committee
the
had shown an anxiety, so far as they could, to place
management of the establishment in a satisfactory condition,
without having recource to the dismissal of theme o officialse
Although the ladies had thought it their duty resign, h
could not help thinking that they would rejoice to hear tha
at
the management of the institution had been placed on
satisfactory a footing, without the Comrsissioners being
obliged to indict a stigma or cast reflection on
two most
respectable and deserving individuals. The punishment
was not left to their discretion, a punishment book
being
regularly kept ; the punishment being restricted to three
stripes on the hand with the cane. That regulation had been
adopted unanimously by the Commissioners, except Lord
Colchester, who had resigned. The cane, the Commissioner
found on examination, was used in three or four of the great
public schools.
Mr. KINNAIRD said the explanation of the right hon.
baronet would give great satisfaction, and he suggested that
the schools should have the assistance of a committee of
ladies.
Sir J. PAKINGTON said there were seven only out of
the thirteen had resigned. They had never ceased to be
superintended by ladies.
Mr. KINNAIRD objected to the use of canes in schools
of this character, and urged a milder punishment au more
effective. explanation
Mr. BRISCOE was pleased to hear the
that had been given. He was also in favour of the super-
intendence of a committee of ladies. He referre yes the
rised,
case
of the two children that had been sent up
to be me
and hoped it would not be again repeated.
Mr. CORRIE said a medical officer was attached to the
hospital, and visited every day. No case would be treated
the last speaker.
in future in the way referred to by
The subject then dropped, and the house went into
SUPPLY. 243 for
On the vote of £30,643, balance of vote of £45,
royal palaces,
Mr. W. WILLIAMS called attention to the large amounwas
t
of this vote. Ho had no objection to vote any
sum that
absolutely required for the comfort and
dignity
is vote,
of the
Queen, bat he thought they ought to object to th
which was an increasing annual one to the extent of £lO
he
of ,000.
Mr. A, SMITH complained of the bad mgtarrement
ought
t
details of the vote, things being mixed up
i that
furn -
to have been charged to other departments, such as i
ture. The savings from the civil list ought to be sufficient
to defray their kind of expense, and observed that he should
like to see a detailed account of that list. He feared they
would get little redress from any remonstrance they might
make. He called attention to the handsome iron gates that
were removed from Hampton Court Palace, and taken to
Brompton as specimens of English ironwk ; and he asked
or
if they were still there, and why they were not repaired and
returned to Hampton Court Palace ?
After some remarks from Sir J. SFIELLE, relative to
the admirable manner in which the furnituYre department
was managed by the chief clerk,
Sir M. PETO called attention to the inadehe noble lord
quacy of St.
James's Palace for State occasions, and hoped t
would shortly turn his attention to the subject.
Mr. COWPER, defended the manner in which the ac-
counts were presented. The vote for the royal palaces
was divided into three heads. Palaces occupied by her
used for State
Majesty ; palaces partly so occupied, but
occasions sucn as St. James's Palace ; and palaces that were
not in any' respect in the occupation of her Majesty. There
was no charge for furniture in the palaces occupied by her
Majesty, as that came from the Lord Chamberlain's depart-
ment ; but there were charges in the vote for furniture for
the State palaces and State rooms. The ornamental railings
were removed from Hampton Court Palace,
and been
removed with a view to their preservation, and Nacre now in
the Kensington Museum. It was considered better to keep
them there as specimens of early English art rather than
replace them at Hampton Court Palace, and by exposure to
the weather destroy them.
the vote was then agreed to.
On the sum of £82,750, balance of the vote for public
buildings and supplying them with water,
Mr W. WILLIA MS called attention to the sum of £lO,OOO
being charged for the supply of water to the Houses of Pother
ar-
liament, the fountains in Trafalgar-sqare, and to
public buildings, and for engines, pumps, pipes, &c.
There
was also a charge of £750 rent of a house for the fortifica-
tion branch of the War Department, and' another sum
this for
the furniture ; that ought not to have been put into
vote, but should have been charged to fortifications.
Mr. COWPER said the War Department in Pall-mall
was not large enough for the fortification branch t
voteo be take
Hen
there, and that was why the charge was .
believed a very economical arrangement had be
thene come to.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS also complained of chargef
£9OO rent for a house in St. James's-square for the tithe
copyhold commission, that commission having been closed
for many years.
Mr. CHILDERS regretted the small number of mem-
bers present to discuss those estimates. He complained
of the inadequate superintendence exercised by the Go-
vernment of this country over public works and build-
ings, compared with that adopted by our Continental
neighbours in this engineering age. This country had lost
ground rapidly during the last 20 years in that respect, and
unless something were done to retrieve our position we
should fall far behind our continental neighbours. The
practical result of our arrangement was that the First Com-
missioner of Works had not the general superintendence of
the works of the country. He had certainly occasionally to
superintend the erection of a few buildings in the metropolis,
to look over the parks, and see that furniture was economi-
ti!?.Purchased and supplied. The superintendence of the
"'",:h works and buildings connected with the Government
to"' 6° scattered about
m„, _
also, ail:: Some were under the control of the Treasury,
iallari, arbeear„ and
i ia.oi:tc,rs in. th_,ran piers, railways, which required so
I 'foss 4",,r.,,,Z supervision were placal under the con •
sserka-LOischa,nouot. the Board of Trade, who had func-
was suwer una,,,ile
_tcutally different character, and other
Wye impossibia: I,Z:t' of the Home Secretary. There
over them iiLlum,e, ~,,. discharge of their functions that it
take the subject"°Ped Let t'usient and
up,
and ot,lo economical control
some change in the pre, ask-pa:rotas hon. member would
works and buildings e.at pi an : rime 'at to consider whether
ought not to be,"rvia ("la our public
•• Re considered