The Sun.
London, England, 1837-11-24 00:00:00

amount of his mere rent-roll, but lie believei his dear
yearly income. Persons holding leases upon these prof er-
ties were obliged to pay very large fines upan having their
leases renewed. Within his knowledge, there was a gentle.
man whose ancestors possessed a large property in Ker.s.ng-
ton that was held upon a lease for three livet—it so hap-
pened that for tins property, taken a long tin o Since, 411
those named in the lease spun ote existence until a recent
period, when ole of them dropped eiff. The gentleman
thought that, according to the good (Ad euetum, hu had Mil,
to pay 1,6001. or 1,0001. for putting a new life in the kilo t
but, ace:elate to the ecteanny litlwl;rnetl3o, itG Wee told he
could not hat c it upon the payment ul the customary fines bllt
must pay for it according to the talue of the property, Th;s tied
like the Church Commtsioners in England, and so fee he (kr.
II.) bad a regard fur the system. It was, therelbre, deter-
mined for the gentleman having oho added to that of
the two old men, he had to pay 70,000/., and the same stare
lies to be paid when the two other old gentlemen walked bli.;
for Laving granted to him a lease of three new lives, so that
three juvenile candles nOglit he all burning at the same
240,0001 were required to be paid. Thiene %sere few, he he_
lieved, who had any idea of tho 'extent of the value of the
Duchv of Cornwall. 11. a asked the lion. Members for Corn-
wall it they were aware of it—if they did not know that there
were as many manors belonging to the Duchy as there were
pat fishes ? and although the surface of the county was not re-
markable for the produce of corn, it was still to be remem-
bered th it it was very rich in tin..—(Laughter.) The Crown,
too, was entitled to 4s. for every hundred weight of tin that
was raised. That, he was told, amounted to something be-
tween 20 0001. and 30,000/. a year. When, then, the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer assured them of the fact that 1,200/.,
the amount of the droits of the Admiralty, were given up, and
when he assured them that other droits were also given up
(all exceedingly commendable), and at the same time said
that the Duchies were to he placed under the con-
treul of Parliament, he hoped the Right Hon. Gentleman
wadi add that the inquire into them would be carried
on in such an efficient way, that it would put the country in
possession of the character and extent of those properties.—
(IL ar.) 113 came now to the more immediate object of his
amendment, and in order to obviate the impression which the
Chancellor of the Exchequer laboured under, and which he
had endeavcu-eed to convey to others, that he (Mr. Harvey )
wished to steal a march ueon him by- the change of his notice,
he ahould say a few words. His notice for a Committee had
b:en given before any intimaticn on the subject had come from
the Right Hon. Gentleman himself, and not until lie had
gathered from the Right lien. Gentleman's notice the course
that the Government meant to pursue, did he deem it neces-
sary to alter his notice. But if Hon. Members wished it, or
they had a little time to spare, and as the season was cool, and
as there were 153 rew Members to whom the matter might be
a tiovelty—( Laughter)—if flou. Gentlemen had not any ob-
jec; ion, he would move to bring en the motion of which he had
given notice, that is, if the Right Hon. Gentleman thought it
would be any advantage to him to do so. He now came to
the suggestion of the Right lion. Gentleman, with the view of
aSeei taibing whether they agreed that night. Unless he was
mistaken, they completely differed from each other. At the
same time that lie did this, lie begged to i emark that lie was
rot sorry that they differed. Ile considered that his object had
been secured ; for the Hon. Gentlemen opposite who formed
that powerful Conservative party which was now arrayed
aglinst the Right Ilon. Gen:lc:man, would not, he was sure,
ei.dure the high compliment which the Right Hon. Gentle-
man had paid to the present Cabinet, when he pattegyrised
them for their great moderation and discretion ; he was sure,
lie was perfectly satisfied, that all the Hon. Gentlemen would
raise their hands against the ingenious insinuation which the
Right lion. Gentleman had thus made against them.—
( Laughter.) The moment he heard that he immediately ex-
claimed that his motion was carried--that the Ministry were in
a minority—and, to speck according to the Parliamentary
terms of pest times, " they were nut.''-( Cheers and laughter...)
What was said be the Right Hon. Gentleman ?—that in 1834
it resolution had besu adopted of not placing upon the Pension
List and but persons of high literary pretensions, of distin-
guished services, or of great virtue—sounds tingling to the
ears ; but by this it was meant that they were as much opposed
to the scandalous sums expended upon the Pension List as any
Hen. Gentlemen could be ; and then they boasted cf where
was the man in the House who could say that since they ht Iti
the key of the Pension Fund that one sixpence of it had been
misapplied in a manner at variance with that resolution.—
( Ilear, hear, from the Chancellor of the Exchequer.) They
said they defied inquiry.--( Hear, hear, from the Chancellor of
the Exchequer)—and then they were for testing the in-
quiry by Mr. Airey, and Mrs. Somerville, and Mr. Moore._-
(Laughter.) There, they said, they are all literary characters,
and they declared, too, that they courted the light of the
day.—( Hear, hear, from the Chancellor of the Exchequer.)
They said that persons might run their eye over the whole
fourteen or sixteen that they had appointed, and let the
terms of that resolution be the test of their purity and in-
tegrity.—( Bear, from the Chancellor of flit) Exchequer.)
This, they said, they did, knowing the vigilance that would
be exercised over them, and caring nothing for the Tories,
and less for the Radicals.—( Laughter and cheers.) They
declared, too, that they were prepared to stand or fall by the
spirit of that resolution, which, as a Cabinet, they had acted
upon. There was great skill,. but there was also some little
artifice in this. Now he (Mr. Harvey) knew nothing about
Mr. Airey—(Laughter)—he knew nothing about Mrs. Sower-
\ Laughter)—he knew nothing about Charlotte Stewart.
—(Laughter.) lie thought that all on the Pension List
might be as good as them.—( Hear, and laughter.) All he
wanted to do was to apply the list of leee to the living list.
(11,:.‘ar, hear.) But then the Right Hon. Gentleman said
that great injustice might be done; and then he took octa-
-1 siun to allude to Lord Farnborough, who for some solid
reason or another had bcuntifully foregone his pension.
Some other Lord was also mentioned ; and there was also
stated the case of a Mr. Morton, who, for discovering a mis-
take of 170,000/., was rewarded with a pension of 2501.
a year. lie wanted to hove a rigid rule of examination ap- •
plied to Lord Farnborough and Miss Stewart ; and if they
locked at the term of the amendment, they would see how
cautious be had been in this respect.—( Here a considerable
delay occurred in looking for Mr. Harvey's resolution, which
had been handed up to the Treasury Bench. It was at length
stated, amidst much laughter, that it could rot be found.) He
felt, lie said, flattered by its not being forthcoming, as it was
the first document that he had ever framed that had been taken
care of by a Cabinet Minister.—( Laughter.) The object of
that amendment was sincerely to apply that test to the Pension
List—to do so liberally—nut to examine into each case with
stern and iron unkindness—not to look with that rigid inquiry
and cold calculation ehich, in modern times, was so much the
subject of reproach. This he wished to do from the remotest
time ; from the first, which went so far back as 1781, down to
the present hour, and to know what could be said in favour of
each grant. If, as he believed, that as much could be said of
them generally as had been said of those appointed by the
Government since 1834, he should not only be content„ but
rejoice at the result. Nothing should lead him to make a re-
mark upon any individual which might induce gentlemen to
interpose against an inquiry under the impression that any
ungenerous test would be applied—(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
Upon former occasions, when he had in any way been baffled
by a party who assumed to themselves the name, and pretended
to be Reformers, he had been compelled, for the purpose of
diversifying the subject, to fasten upon some individuals. He
had experienced lion inexpedient was such a course. It was
very well for the Right Hon. Gentleman to make certain per-
sons the objects of his laudation ; this was a safe and a very
pleasant course to follow, but such was not the case with ono
who, on the contrary, felt it to be his duty to make others the
object of his censure. Now he thought that all upon the Pen-
sion List were just as geodes Miss Stewart and Mrs. Somer-
.ille ; but did the world so think? An ungenerous, a censo-
rious, a scandal-loving world, was under the impression that
upon the Pension List there was many a hoary sinner—
( Laughter and cheers)—that there were still there those
whose pretensions were to be found in the secrets of the Ca-
binet, or of the couch. Many individuals thought this, but
he did not think so.—(Laughter.) There were certainly
individuals who thought that many had found their way there
whose pensions were the price of their political apostacy,
or the resignation of their virtue.—(Hear.) After what
the Chancellor of the Exchequer had thrown out with
respect to the Pension List, it became them—it became those
young men—( Lauglitcr)—it became those 158 young men to
step forward, and throw the broad shield of their gallantry
over those individuals who were made the subject of unjust
imputations.—( Laughter.) If they had any young blood stir-
ring in their veins, they must have the gallantry to come for-
ward and. aid the ladies that were thus slandered.—(Laugh-
ter.). Why, he asked, were Mrs. Somerville and Miss Stew-
art made the express objects of approbation and applause ?
why, for the mere purpose of showing up thi Arabellas and
the other fine ladies who ought not to have pensions.—(A
laugh.) The Right Hon. Gentleman thought that there ought
to be inquiry. The present Government had overthrown the
last upon this very subject.—( Loud cues of " No, no.") He
knew that it was very convenient to say no, but for what he
said there was sufficient foundation. When the Right Hon.
Gentleman opposite (Sir Robert Peel) and the Duke of Wel-
lington, brought forward tilde Civil List in 1830, it was at.
tacked upon various grounds, and by some it was said that
the whole amount was enormous and outrageous, and above all,
the Pension List should be made the subject of rigid in-
vestigatien, (" Hear, hear, hear," from the Opposition
Mernbees.) He should sedulously avoid that which was
unacceptable to every kind of audience —the bringing
forward speeches which had been made upon former
occasions. There was something dry and uninviting in such
a course ; but the speeches of eloquent and great men made
a lasting impression, and he could not forget that the Right
Hon. Member for Dundee, then the Member for the Queen's
County (Sir 11. Parnell), had been the mover upon that oc-
casion. He (Mr. Harvey) had no hesitation in saying that
that Right, Ilan. Gentleman had, in the most pointed manners
declared his conviction that the Pension List required a most
rigid investigation. That was done—a Committee was ap-
pointed, and what had been the result ? It was true the course
proposed now was different from that then followed ; but the
result of the Committee at that time was, that instead of a
shilling being saved, there was something like an addition of
10,0001. or 12,000/. Then there came e film over the politi-
cal eyes, and the Houle was h7raly in a state to see or to
judge correctly, II was 1.01(1, in Downing-street, and it was
"hisPerdt sofrat secret amongst the expectants, that if
tv,wv,,, were an lequiry into the pensions, it would be fatal to
the Reforelleg Government. It became, then, a calculation
ith Reformers, whether they would consent to the passing
of an Act of apparent injustice, or hazard a measure so much
desired by the country—whether they would yield what was
their sense of duty, to the consideration of a higher and more
permanent obligation. It was admitted, then, that it was
the right and the duty of that House, at the commencement
of every reign to investigate all these charges; but, for the
reason he bad stated, the intentions of gentlemen in this re-
spect were mired. Notwithstanding the successful oppo-