The Sun.
London, England, 1830-07-03 00:00:00

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public opinion, and criticised the conduct of
public men, to make those observations on the po-
eeedinet of Members of that House they should think fit.
But he was sure the House would agree with hint that if
the conduct deny Member was represented in a newspaper
directly contrary to that which, in point of fact, it
hail been, it was the duty of that Member in the most
unrestricted manner to set himself right. A statement
had been circulated among his Irish eonstituents,
calculated to inflict not only a personal injury
bet a practical injustice upon him, and which he
should take the liberty of setting right. It had
been said in two of the Irish newspapers that the
lion. Member for Limerick, whom his coustituente had
entrusted with their confidence, had declared before the
Parliament of England, that the Catholics of Ireland
were airworthy of confidence! He took upon himself,
in the face of the Commons, surrouuded by many who
had heard his statement, and inviting contrediction
(rum any one individual—he took on himself to
deny in the most net, direct, and unrestricted men.
tier that ever he
.had uttered such an expresaion, and
to characterise the statement lie alluded to as one of the
foullest misrepresentations ever circulated in Ireland. Ile
did not, and could nut have stated that the Roman
Catholics were unworthy of confidence. He was the
last person that could have wished such an opinion to have
Prevailed. The mule he had taken wee this :---He said
that the House ought to watch with jealousy any motion
the lion. Member fur Clare might bring in on the subject
of the catholic., not that he meant the House to under-
stand the Hon. Member would bring in any Bill that was
not deserving of the approbation of the House, but that
he thought it was much better for the Proteetente of
this country to legislate for themselves on the subject of
the Protestant Church in Ireland. He, therefore, com-
plained of this statement, not only because it had been cir-
culated in the newspapers, but because it had been
taken out, printed, and circulated among his constituents.
He would not enter into a controversy in newspapers with
any man, but he had taken the liberty openly in that
House, in the way in which every independent Member
ought, when he had been grossly misrepresented, to state
how the feet was, and for the indulgence with which the
House had heard he felt indebted.
Colonel SHITHORPE gave his hearty support to this
petition), perousded that the greater the stimulation of
newspepere the more would society he benefited,
and the only way by which that circulation could be in-
creased, would be by a reduction of the heavy taxation.—
If there were any inaccuracy in the reports of the pro.
etc-lino in that House, certainly the reporters ought not to
be blamed, but Hon. Members had themselves to blame.
Indeed it was a universal surprise that the reports should
in general be so accurate. It was the opinion of Mr.
Justice Blackstone, Mi. Burke, and the late Dr. Paley,
that the publication of every thing connected with that
House, es well as the Lords, was a must desirable
object. lie could himself urge thousands of Argument.
in favour of the liberty of the Press.—(Loud cheers.)—
To what were all the great public inatitutiuns in-
debted, iu comparison with the assistance of the Prise?
Nothing. Under such circumstances, Owl lot bid
that he should ever he supposed to entertain an
opinion or do auy thing calculated to abridge the
liberty of the Press, or to prevent the Press from taking
up the conduct of that House as a public body--a right
which the Press was entitled to command, and which the
House bad no right to deny.
Mr. LITTLETON felt great satisiaction in supporting
the petition hrought forward by the Noble Lord. Of
his own knowledge he knew that theme were persons with
an income of two or three hundred per annum as well able
to exercise a round judgment on every subject
that come before the public, as guy set of teen
in the universe, but who were pree'udell from olitsining
that extensive knowledge which they otherwise would
proms, Were it in their power to take iu,daily newspaper,
but which they could not do, because it would cost them
101. or 111. per annum. The cornice of a country atm•
paper was generally not ItiOrs than fifty or sixty shillings
a year, and yet he knew that the very, first indul-
gence which the English yeomen were obliged to deprive
themselves of was, that of continuing to take in one of
those paper., and which be could not but regard is a
public hardship—a public grievance.—(llear, hear,)-as
Ile contended that a small duty upon newspapers web!,
double their circuistion, and that, by a redaction of the,
adiertisement duty, the revenue won d be beneficial/ to a
tonsiderable amount. He must say that the first duly of
the Legislature was to provide for the education of
the people, and he could see no means by which that
duty could be moreeffectually accomplished that, by placing
in the hands of the people, is extensively as possible, the
labours of educated men. He trusted the Noble Lord would
early in the next Session bring forward some measure en
the subject. But if the Noble Lord did not, he trusted son e
other Hon. Member would, in order that the people might
have ea opportunity of seeing who were the Members who,
by their vote' upon that occasion, discharged their duty tJ
the people.
Mr. O'CONNELL was quite convinced of the inability
of his Honourable Friend to state any thing so inaccurete
as that which was imputed to him ; but he was at the
ranee time surprised at his Hon. Friend's ability to state,
at tbis distance of time, what he bad actually said.
Every body who knew hisElon. Friend, knew him to be is.
cepalsle of stating what the anonymous publications *Herded
to had imputed to him. But be the ninirepresentations
what they might, they occurred from the charley way in
which reports were given in that House. It would be better
to hays somebody roponsible for their reports in that.
Muse, fur under the present system every one did as lie
pleased, and no one was 4nsworabla.
Mr. it. DAVENPORT approved of the petition
which was presented, and was anxious that the
reports should to forth properly in the newspapers.—
But Le would ack, what would become of the
time of the Home, if every mum who was mis-
represented should make a statement to the House of
these inierepreisentations? What, he would ask, could
he more easy than for a body like that to have reporters
of its own, sworn to report every word that passed
in Shut House accurately—(Great laughter)—or not
at all.—(Loud and continued laughter-Ilefore any
Hun. Member talked of capitulating with reporters,
he should wish to know the terms of the capitulation
of the gallantry of the reporters, no one Wield have a doubt,
and their accuracy was inure than wonderful; and of their
education no greater proof could be needed than this—the
extraordinary precision with which they took 'petitions—
no matter in what langusgeor come front whom they might.
But the evil was this, that whilst the House allowed them
to report they could not compel them to report—(Laugh.
ter)--nor were they obliged to report a single syllable of
any epeeoh, come from what quarter it might. Before the
Howse eapitulete with reporters, they ought to know
what happened after the reports left the reporters'
bands.--(hear, hear.)—Did the House know, whe-
ther after the reports left time reporters' hands that
feeble., words, and sentences, in certain speeches, were
not altered accoraieg to the tastes of proprietors. Sup.
pose it might happen that any capitalist, or any number
of capihtliste, having an object iu view, might get poseeesion
of newspapers, what could be easier for them than to
tell reporters,—" we want such and such speeches re-
ported ;"--or suppose two capitalists having diffe:
rent views, were to have two newspipers, and that
each should approve of the m 131816114 of one Member
who opposed, and this other who supp.'ded• Ministers,—
although they might not say to the reporters, ";We do
sot wish you to report the *perch of 'such a Member ;
and as we can only report the speech of oneMember,hecause
we have no room, we prefer the sentiments of Mr.
and So." Now, would not the reporters underitand that ?
Arod if the favoured Mother Were a Minister, as in many
instances would he the clew, the consequence would
be that his speech would be reported, whilst nut
one sentence in twenty of my Honourable Friend
below rrie, or of my Honourable Friend behind me,
*prated to Millet/re would be reportesh—(i.iughter,,)
Tile Government having the commend of Morley might
easily do that, and obtain the noloession of the principal
newspaper*, and have their speeches accurately reported
while those opposed to the tneluiure would be euppermd.
Metrhelrt.thiat lELeerrtathlienlyancdan"iitve.i cap .
wui'stihrutotitedilstt
my arrange:mut which lie may propose, and which may
have the effect of doh% that which he so touch fears, of
' having the 'speeches of ?Ministers repented, end of the other
s
I:girt:is ualmsrPteouPs:egel,i 5 :le: must(iti
ith gh
rs:asaayittntghlulai,
singular
igr4eet
correctness-..and,
ar')iet— speechesit.oeit ot_hf4 Mori. 1111141 ewnoiti-fi
(Hear, hear.)—
At the game time I doubt much the policy of the prop.
smuon, that every worel—(l.atighter)..,46,l4 he woolly
reported—even the very exact terms,' and in the very order
in which they are uttered in tide Ihmee.,...(coutinued
laughter.).-Upon the whole, I think we hive no (Kea-
ainu to
speeches ocufwlnsoisuPi:lat(i.o4fif
ishtoleumeirrldb7dtiveitScriefieultolitalnwii:iannntltislaitetiyiuptittreiziisniergi
sentiments sometimestbliststoitone,....c
are expressed in aria
Upon the whole, Sir, Ido not think it would be editor.
tageous to the public, or creditable to ourselves; to hare
reporters sworn to report accurately every word that may
be uttered.—(Oreat laughter followed the Right Me.
Baronet's obeervations.)
Colonel, SIIITHORPE only meant to lay, that greater

accommodation might be afforded to the reporters than
they at present enjoyed.
Mr. SPITING MCP:, in explanation, did lot complain
of the accuracy of the reports, What he ceinplained of
was a comment upon ids public conduct in that House.
Lord MORPETU should be inclined next Session to
adopt the suggestion of the llon. Member fur Staffordshire,
he did not construe the silence of Government into appro.'
bation of that proposition.
sir M. W. RIL)LEY said, the et-timber of advertise-
ments which appeared in each newspaper clearly showed
that a tax on newspapers did not operate as al disadvantage
to newspapers. But be thought a loeluctierron newspapers
desirable.
Mr. HUME thought this a most important question.
If the reduction of tintatien on claret, supposing it to be
good, would he the means of increasing the revenue, on
the same principle the reduction of taxatiou on news-
papers would Imre the same effect. Ile begged the
House to observe what took place In America, where
there were more ,affvertisimenti in one town (New York)
the* in the whole of 'London. His • Honourable Friend
had observed that he thought the Government duty
on advertisements of Ss. 6d. "wee not much; but when
6d. more Was added, he must he allowed ti say that
that struck out a great portion of advertisement'. No-
thing could be of more importance than the reduction of
duty on. advertisements. He had no dunk if the duty on ad-
vertisements was reduced to Is. the revenue would: in the
' long ran be considerably, increased. The tax on newe-
r papers was a tax on the diffusion of knowledge, it was
what he must designate as an anti-Christian tax.—
(Laughter.) lie trusted the Noble Lord opposite (dor-
pith) would press this measure is another Session. The
House of Commons he knew, and he trusted Ministers,
would likewise go with him. He trusted the. time
was not far remote when the duty on paper
would be taken off altogether.' The paper-makers at.tbe
present moment were in the great possibly distresit; but he
bad no hesitation in saying, if the duty was taken off
paper altogether, this country would become the mane.
lecturer of paper (as it was at the present moment of cot-
ton goods) for the whole world. He hoped the Chancellor
of the Exchequer would be prepared to come to the House
next Session with a repeal of the tax on paper altogether.
Mr. DAVENPORT wished to make a few observe.
lions relative to the great utility that would result from
having:verbatim reports.
Lord HOWICK felt compelled to call the Hon. Member
to order. Tlie Haim was not now discussing the accu-
racy of reports,. but the subject of a petition presented by
the Noble Lord opposite.
The SPEAKER observed that the Hon. Member was
most certainly out of order. It was true that when a
subject was brought forward, one Member spoke on one
point, and another on a different one, till the House hardly
knew upon what subject they were discussing ; the
subject of the petition presented by the Noble Lord had
topics in it which hail led to the discusaioa, but he must
say 'lost, according to the rules of the Helm, the lion.
Member was not in order.

Sir 11.011E13T PEEL must Isy that he was extremely
glad his speeches had not been reported verbatim.
Lord MORPETH felt honoured by the observations of
the Honourable Member opposite (Mr. Hulse),
and could assure him that the subject should have Isis
best attention. The object of whatever motion he
might bring for ward would have the increase of adver-
therneuts. The Noble Lord then brought up the petition,
which was ordered to lie on the ale.
Mr. 'O'CONNELL presented a petition from Mr; T.
Thunman, relating to the ports in Ireland ; and a pe-
tition from certain parishes in Wexford, complaining of
distress.
Mr. O'BRIEN presented a petition front the gentry,
clergy, and freeholders of the county of Clue, comphining
of d litres*. „
Mr; O'CONNELL supported the prayer Of the petition ;
and observed, that the increase of the spirit duty in Ireland
was calculated to increase illicit distillation.

Mr. O'BIIIF.N presented a petition from the gantry, and
other inhabitants of the county of Clare, praying fur the
amendment of the grand jury laws.
Mr. O'CONNELL said that the petition wait most re-
vpectsbly signed; and expressed his hope that the subject
would be taken into serious consideration.
Colonel WILSON presented a petition from the inha-
bitants of York, in favour of the New North Road.
SLAVE TRADE.
Sir ROBERT PEEL, by order of his Majesty, :pre-
' sent d, copies of correspondence respecting the slave trade.
FEES ABOLITION BILL
On the motion of Mr. Home, the amendments made
by the Houle of Lords in the Fees Abolition Bill wu'c
ordered to be taken into consideration on that day six
months. The lion. Member obtained leave to bring in
another on the subject.
COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER haviur
moved that the Heusi should resolve Niel! into the Com-
mittee of Supply,
Sir 3. QUA HAM rose to propose his Resolutions on
the subject of the Four and a Half per Cent. Duties. Ile
must first, however, beg leave to spy a few word. on th.
course pursued by his Majesty's ltfirriaters or the present
occasion. Departing front the usual practice of proposing
the Estimates to the House, and taking the sense of the
House upon them, he understood it was the iuteution Of
Ministers that night to aik for A considerable Vote of Cie-
dit—a vote calculated to mark the confidence of the House
in those Ministers, at the very snowsuit when they foetid
themselves is a situation of peculiar diffieulty and danger.
Eves at an early period of the Session he, foe one, should
not have been disposed to give them that mark of Cetili.
deuce, much lest should he pow be disposed to give is to
an Administration which had forfeited all the protni.e•
which they bed made ; an Administration which had die-
eppointed public expectation ; an Administration which
bad been weighed in the hatence, end found winning;
an Administration which bad been found incompetent to
conduct the affeirsof the, country with credit to themselves,
or with advantage to the State.—(Hear.)—lie was con-
vinced that from this Administration public opinion we,
rapidly receding, and he felt it war unfortunate that his
Majesty should, place his confidence In it at a moment when
the great mass of the nation viewed it with distrust.—
(Hear.)-11e avowed that lie himself did so, and there-
fore never timid assent to the passing of a vote of credit as
a mark of confidence to the Administration...( Hear. )—He
could not concur in sanctioning a departure from the
established ride of voting the .Estimates. The question
which presented itself to his mind was, why there Omutd
he any departure from the established rule in the
present instance ? and really be found that the only argu-
-inente urged in its favour from the opposite benches; were
founded upon a reference to the convenience of the Meiii-
hers of that House. • Lle might, however, be permitted to
state, that in his opinion the real reason for this deviation
from the established practice was, that Ministers not being
able to manage the llouse of Commons, were anxious,
notwithstanding the exceeding
,difilcultieti of the moment,
to get rid of the Great Council of the Nation....(Cheers.)
.-Now he mint bog to ask the Home if there 'flirt not
many questions before them which it was proposed to delay,
although they really required despatch, and might now i4e
mere duly considered, sad snore advantageously disputed
of, than .they could at any future period ? He did nut
wish to weaken the force of the 'cerement* made ou a for-
mer occasion by his Hon. Friend at that aids of the Houser ;
but he might, perhaps, be permitted toshince at tlie greet
question of the Regency. A Regency question wan at oli
times, and under all circumstances, one of infinite delicacy,
inisl by two dangers was It invariably atteniled—roep„.
dun on the one hand, and the struggle of peedoud.
nant factions on the other. These dangers came in
proportion to the debty in bringing the question US a-etili,
elusion; if it were speedily terminated they were proper-,
tiontbly diminished—if, on the contrary, it was pro-
longed, they were inealculeby increased. The risk, there.
fore, run by Government is the greatest mid most wanton
which could be possibly incurred.--(hear, hear.) i They
could then discuss that most important question rahnly,
and with the Throne full. Hereafter they West he called
upon to diecues it with the Throne empty, and snith tire
passions of all men excited and itiflaincl.—(Heari hear.)
Were he to fellow the Right lion. Gentleman opposite
through the space of history over which it hatlapleeeeel
him to weeder, he then might—he was convigeed he
should—be able to show that it was contrary to ;IR pre-
cedent, and to the principles of the Conatitutiog, Ilea-
toasty to defer the consideration of questions of *ugh vital
interest. Why, !diking even to the Act of Willi 111.,
which the Eight lion. Gentleman had cited, an which
declared that the duration of Parliament shout I not he
limited by ter dish 'of the Monarch, he would ask if it were
not determined by our ancestors to meet emergepcies of
that kind--to arrange all matters touching the sugrasion,
so that there should be no doubt, or difference, •oridispute
.—in a word to meet all emergencies not specially provided
for by the statute. There was also a remarkeh absur-
dity in the risk which Minister' proposed to run 'Tryl
witt!rd to dismiss that House of Commons, as u worthy
or incompetent to pronounce a decision upon th4t greet
question ; yet, In the event of a demise of the Clown, it
the new Parliament were not assembled, It was tat very
House now said to he unfit and incompetent, whielt would
be the one that should kale the wetter upon theliseite of
the ()cation, white now they might have six months
wherein to deliberate and to consult with the greetons Sc.
vereign now' upon the Throne—the ruler of these realms

—the guardian of the sueeession—and the father of his
people.—(Cheers.) lie had always read and heard, and
thought, and considered it a thing established, that the

most important of the functions of that Musa was nar-
rowly to watch, and closely to examine every vote respect-
ing the public expenditure; and as to the settlement of the
Civil List, he contended that the practice had been to settle
itlortiawith upon the demise of the Crows, and previous
is a dissolution. The only exception was in the case of'
the sus session of his late Majesty to the Crown of his
father. On that occasion Lord Londonderry counselled the
dismissal of the Parliament before the settlement of the

Civil List, expressly stating, however, at the same time,
that it should not be drawn into a precedent, since it was
recommended upon 'pedal grounds; and these were, that
although there was a change in the style, title, and dignity,
yet that there was not any change in the person exercising
the sovereign authorit And here he must say—and it
was in vain to disseuiffe—that the Civil List was one of

those questions in which the people and the Crown had
not precisely` the same interests. Tito Crown must natu-
rally desire to obtain as large a revenue as it possibly can,

• •
consistent with the means and with the burthens of Os

people. The people, on the contrary, roust be anxioui to

be*tow upon the Crown as small a revenue as was con

sirtent with the decent dignity of a limited Monarch.—
(Cheers.)—lie raid the decent dignity of a limited Mo-.
narch, which was widely different from the ortentatiour
glare of military despotirm.—(Lood cheera.)—Now it
wee undeniable that the Crown exercised an influence in

that [louse ; and what was the counterpoise to that int%

ence ? The popular influence which was exercised when
they again came before their constituents, and appeared,

In the ivordt of hi• Hon. and Learned Friend the-Member

for Knaresborough, to render up an account of their
stewardship, and declare how they had, and for what rea-
sons they had, voted upon that great and nicely balanced
question.—(Hear.)--He thought accordingly, that the
people should not be deprived of that salutary controul. It
was a novelty to attempt to deprive them of it; it was not
to be expeeted that the Members of a new Howie would be
actuated by the Caine strong motives to deserve the public
favour as they were who were soon about to meet them
whom they had been 'returned to Teprecent. .He there-
fore for One could not .countesiance. this novelty, and
be hoped the people would avitil themselves of ano-
ther esoutroul which was yet . allowed to them I and
that was, to come to a clear understanding with

their Representatives upon this subject. In saying
this, however, he bogged not to be uusunderstood. He
hoped the settlement would not be .a niggardly one—
but a fair, just, and liberal settlement—such as becatne.the
dignity of the King of England, and the character of his
people.--(Hear.)—He trusted, too, that it would be 'a
settlement in commutation of all the hereditary ,posses-
sions of the Crown, Crown Laude, Droits of the Admi-
ralty, Droits of the Crown, Hereditary Revenues, end the
surplus from the Four-and-a-Half per Cent. Dutiee.—
___

(Hear, hear.)—And, now to approach more immediately
the subject en which he had risen. Ile would say that it
wos tl.e manner in which thin fund had been managed for
the hart two yearn that had induced him to turn his atten-
tion towards it. The Government had seemed anxious to

throw a great myths' y over those smell branches of the
hereditary revenue. And if he succeeded in making. out
his case, he earnestly hoped and trusted that the people
would not, on the approaching occasion, overlook the fact
or support any candidate, who would not pledge himself to

vote 'fur a civil list upon an economical scale.— But touch-
ing the Four-and-a-Half per cent. Dutits, it might be
necessary fur him to enter into some details. He should
nut, however, trouble the house by again ping over
ground which had been so often trodden. He should
not waste their time by showing how these Four-and.

&Half per Cent. Duties had been originally granted
to Cheats IL by the Colonial Legislature, in conside-
ration of his abandoning his feudal privileges, and con-
senting 'to commute the tenures into tenures by mocvnee,
and to support the military establishments. Neither should
he trouble them ley showing how these duties had been
misapplied by this Monarch and Lis successor, James 11. ;
' or how they bed been granted to King William, as part ni
his privy purse ; or hew, in the reign of Queen Anne, a re•
monstrance had been addressed from the Colonists to that
House; or how, in consequence, an Address was voted by
the House of Commons to her 111akity, praying that °they
might be restored to their original destination. Nor vionlil
he trespass upon them even to show how they were,
during the subsequent part of Queen Anne's reign and, that
at the two first Georges, actually restored to their original
destination ; or how, by the Civil List Act of George 111.,
they were held to be part of the small revenues of the
Crown, and thus came to he thenceforward considered m
such. Now it was not necessary for his argument to
contend that they were not so, and did not fall within the
limits of the Royal prerogrative ; but the question would

still remain whether, if arising front usage, the absence o
Mile up to 1028 was not a waiver of the prerogative?
Taking fur granted, however, that the prerogative wit
clear, what would the house say upon the subject? Would
they say that, even supposing title, it was a justifiable exer-
cise of authority, upen the pat t of the late' adeisers of the
Crown, to recommend the revival of that right?-..(hear.)
—He would, as bearing upon the question, quote the
opinion of a Crown lawyer, delivered et a period whet
the doctrine of prerogative was high and much higher
than at present.: Sir Homage Finch said, " The King
hash a prerogative its all things net injurious to the sub-
jeet ; . but in all respects the King's prerogative itretcheth
not to do any wrong." But .here he might be asked to
explain what he meant by .prerogative ; and although
nothing was more difficult than a definition, be believed
he could bring forward one from a great man, and the first
logical authority.the country ever produced, from whom,
s from the fountain head„ they could thaw the principles
which governed the Revolution. It was scarcely neces-
sary for hint to add, the individual he alluded to sires
Locke, who said, " This power to act according wide-
cretion, for the public. good, without the prescription of
law, and sometimes even against it, is that which is called
prerogative.". lie did not stop there, hut goes on to say
.—." And this power, whilst employed (or the benefit of
the community, cad suitably to the trust and ends of the
Uovernraent, is undoubted prerogative, and never is
questioned ; for the people are far from examining
prerogative, whilst it is in any tolerable degree em-
ployed for the use it was meant--that. is, for the
good of the people, and not manifestly, against it; hut
if there comes to he a question between .the Executive
Power and the people about a thing claimed as a preroga-
tive, the tendency of the, exercise of ouch prerogative to
the good or hurt of the people will easily decide the ques-
tion. The end of Government being the good of the com-
munity, whetao:ver alterations are made in it tending to
that end cannot be an encroachment in any body, since
no body in Government can have a right tending to any
other end; twee only are encroachments which prejudice
or hinder the public good. Those
,who say otherwise,
speak as' if the Prince bad a distinct and separate interest
from the good of the community, end was not made for it;
the root and source from which spring almost all the evils
and disorders which happen in Kingly GOvernments
and if that be en, the people under his Government are
not a society of rational creatures entered into a commu-
nity for their mutual good ; they are not such as have set
rulers over themselves to guard anti promote that good ;
but are to be looked on as a herd of inferior creature'
:tinder the dominion of a master who works them for his
own pleasure or profit. If nice were so void of reason
and brutish as to enter into society upon such term., pre.
rogative might indeed be, what 110 M men would have it,
an arbitrary power to do . thiuga hurtful to the people."
This was the teat which Locke supplied ; and he would
'just apply it to the present case—.or rather to some other
cases. The House must not forget that Ida Majesty was
peaseseed of great domains in Hanover, Now suppose his
Majesty were to fancy to grow vast quantities of corn upon
these domains, and to import it, as was his right, ditty
tree into this country.-he put it to the country gentlemen
what would be the effect produced upon their interests,'
and upon the nation generally, by such a course; or what
would be the opinion universally entertained of the
exercise of such a right? Again, the King is by
right of conquest Sovereign and liege Lord of the
many of . our foreign possessions; but what would
be the effect if he should fancy to import tobacco
duty free from Demerara, or any other of our
colintiO? . Ile saw, however, the Right lion. Gentleman
was getting impatient, as if he feared he (Sir J. G.) was
about to violate the compact he had entered into. It wa•
his intention to keep faith. He bad in the first place
waited for the Right Hon. Gentleman's statement of the
meatureclie proposed to carry forward that Session ; hut
in this there was M 3 mention of the 11111 then upon the
Table. Resides, he mint observe that he had had no no-
tice of that Rill, and until he hail given notice last night
he saw nothing respecting the matter upon. the paper.
Notwithstanding all this, however, he would have waited
patiently, but that since the arrettgewent had been made,
a meet important fact had come to his knowledge, which
made the . former part of the- case sink into insipid
me. ; and now he begged to Ball the attention of the
House to that fact which formed the very essence
lie
dsalninitungl•ydr mannerltlastne gravamen
'oiwnf whichvileisrce4h taiihr getel;aeclater glati
respectingtstitQhne Ministry,totltihe these e ettar matter.
carne originally before the House. His Hon. Friend, dor
Member for Aberdeen, had moved for a return of all the
small revenues of the. Crowe, severally enumerating them,
and including the Four-and-a-Half per Cents. A return

was., brought in with a note appended, that, .in meet
of an opinion given by the Attorney-General, no.
had been received on sugars not subject by the Act
duty, and being at the disposal of his Majesty. ' Now
them see, in the first instance, what was the question'
to the Attorney-Gencrel. It wee, " Whether (as it
been held that no property of his Majesty is, unless'
cially subject to duty, liable to the payment ot it)
sugars granted to the King in kind, and not spec-11117
jetted to any Act of Custom Duty, being also subj..,
his Majesty's disposal, and nowapplicable to publis ob/
polnted out by Parliament in-the Aet 6 Geo. IY:Aell.,
(namely, the payment of the expenses of the Ecelesk
,Establishment of 'the West Indies) are liable to the
ment of any . Custoni Duty ?"Now the . worth& 0(
Act 6 Geo. IV. cap. 88, were..." And whereas it is
pedient that the charge to be created payable, under
authority of this Act, to the Bishop, Archdeacons,.
Miners, and Catechists, appointed or to be appointed
his Majesty as aforesaid, should be charged upon the
of 4 per cent. payable to his Majesty in the West.
whenever the said duties, after payment of
prior charges thereof, shall afford the means of
'fraying the whole or any part of such salaries or/
lions: be it therefore enacted, that the said .
and pensions shall become and be a charge upon the
_ties of four and a half per centum next in priority
the salaries of the Governors, Lieutenant-Governors,
other public officers, payable out of those duties
determination of any other charges now existing
upon ; and that any and every surplus which shall
time arise out of the produce of those duties, after
ing all such other charges now existing therein
reason of the cessation of any of those charge*, shall
be applied in the first instance to defray the charges
salaries and pensions to be granted under the suth
of this act accordingly." But the Attorney-General.
sward, he saw no reason why these sugars
liable to the payment of any duty. He said—." We
of opinion that the property in the sugars.in queetioe
ing in his Majesty, the same are not liable to the re
of any custom duty." But then. how did the Gayer
act? Did they proceed nut to levy the duties?
like it. On the coati ary,. they did levy the .slailesf
this he should make quite clear tot the House.-.
I might be sold in one of two ways...brthe short
which case the purchaser paid the duty only---the
price, which included the duty of the customer ;-'
the produce fell under the Appropriation Act.
fore it was clearly the duty of Ministers, having lo'
to pay the same into the Consolidated Fund in
to, the Aet. This was the course they might to
takes; for there was a special appropriation under the
For tise 10th of Gborge.lV., cap. 85, having
" And be it further enacted, that all money!
into the said Eichiquer by one other Act of this
of Parliament, entitled, . ,An Act for continuing'
Majesty, for one year, certain Duties. on Sugar it
into the United Kiugdom, for the service of the
1800.' shall be• further appropriated, -Ind are '..
propriated, and shall be issued and applied for awl,
the Several uses and purposes hereafter expressed." tt
This Appropriation Act went on to say..—
" Aud it is hereby enacted, that the said aids
plies provided as aforesaid, shall not be issued and
to any use, intent, or purpose whatever, other
uses arid purposes before mentioned, or for the .
menu directed to be satisfied thereout, by any Act or.
or any particular Clause or Clauses for that purpeep
taiued in any other Act or Acts of this Session of.
ment."
But now, as soma as he bad ascertained that that
was levied, it because necessary for him to seek.
formation respecting the amount. Returos weeeA
for and made by Government, from which it appse7'
the actual charge on the fund for colonial uteri**
amounted to, ill 1829, 42,8061. ; while the net
of duties returned on these sugars amounted to .-
leaving a net for 1829 of 24,1871. Now ost tliel
items in 1830 there was a net surplus.of duties
over the charge for salaries of 18,2641., leaving*
for the two years of 42,441/. Looking at this
naturally concluded this surplus had been apptit
st.vexpensesitistotaeibboirliii
uoi
ef talliedn tthieiwuNri Vtiinesk
gttutelhroooleimatc:ll:loauryrgeee,ha
years,
esf,sotara
IbtlitlriiesllersexmpwiTaintroe;
to this conclusion by the answer ere!
Prime Minister to a question put to him Kum the`
by a Noble Friend of his in another place. The
used by his Grace were these—at least he took
that form from what he presumed would be cot
authentic source—
" There can be no doubt that it is a constitutiol
ciple, that the property of the Crown is not liahl
duties on importation into this country. I do 00t
that it is always prurient to put that principlo OS
but I du meats to contend, that it is not imprudeol to
in practice in this ease ; because there are lit
moustancee attached to it, whicharcOot iike
in any other. 1 ceutend that these funds (antler gtk
IV.) are taken outof the hands of the Creern,,,
plied under the controul and superiotendeoet a,'
went, and can never he abused fur any purpose ww-,,,
After this he certainly thought it uoneosseniq '-
more inquiries, especially as the Right Hon. Gar
'had .pkilged. Mouth' to meet him upon the coin°
principle; hut a rumour having reached hill'We' t
surplus was nut applied to the expenses of the
Church Establishment, and having found that untie
age from the year 1820 to 1828 there was a er
17,0004 a year on the charge for. pension over„
meat, and that, therefore, there was a large error,
thsepenaioners, a question was naturally raised ia 41
whether great interest had not been made to hale
rear discharged out of the fund which had been
that legerdeinain to which be alluded. On this,he
fur a returwto show the magma paid in salarieet,
funds provided; end he was sure the House WWI'
ionished, as he hail been, when he read to theathem:-
paragraph. It stated :that the amount paid for'
the Church EstaWishment was 20,0004 per
this was paid from the Consolidated Feud till efe,
as the state of the Four and a Half per Cent. 01401
such as to admit of their being defrayed from it kip
or in part. Nut a shilling had been paid into the.
quer ; and there was now upwards of 42,0004_,0,
that mysterious way, for which Government me'
to account....-(Hear, hear.)—.The House wrier n°,
cloyed and disgusted with the Sugar Question, '
trusted they would remember what the Chancellor
Exchequer had said about the high quality of the'
imported from the old Colonies. Taking, then, the
rity of the Right Hon. Gentleman, the,' eshouldc.i
that all would go to the refiner, and therefore WO,
be a drawback upon all; and if so, the lout tO,Oll
wore(' be doubled ; it would amount to upwards of 0
But taking it at the average rate of sugars importel
the old Colonies, anti saying that -one-fourth went
refiner, there would be a loss of 18,0001., which' be'
to the 42,0001. remaining unaccounted fur, wuja
make a total loss of 60,0001. If this, however. h!!'I
;
only part of the case, he might have belt P
overlook it ; but filets had been two or three ,"i
lately of isterferenee upon the part of the Treseurifj
was uneonstitutional and dangoross in the bill
tree. In the year 1817 a grant of 15,004 01
made to the city of Londonderry, for the pnrer ,41
log a bridge, and this suns was to be repel by to?
stslments before the year 1810; bet in 11121 a 'J(
the Treasury was issued, suspending Ilse paymeettud
Now here was a suspending power esttePed 4,1'4 ill
strry. There was another traiumetion well -eloir
consideration. The whole money voted for the r`,
Windsor Castle was expended in July ; and in di.
.ttsiotmoacooceol
diftitaedot4hvbeourytt::t not
ag reed
dn
jos u,l. trlrsoi tjtoreol
otfo. tohfe
dflours, , :. iOOlOOO
Now here was a case of oupercession of the fund
tire House of Commons. And lastly, in the Pr`
thweasthraseduireetattevaiionlaatioatollesll::ustPuP;4l.
accordinly high time to come to some understen`aii
The most wholesome and the greatest Prillia!le
House of Commons he had always understoA .040
(lend to monist in the power of watching erveri:lll
tromping the public expenditure ; anti so lung ee !
in full force, so long, and no longer, might the 001
the people be secured. He was not, sonieerl'li,
posed to rest satisfied with 4 measure which ire'.
prospective. In the yea. 1805, 11r. Pitt, in;
Made of his power, was glad to take a Bill of Ja 'O.
.from that side of the House, when he- he'l girl:
e
plied, in a ease of urgent necessity, 60,000 tO-7 :1
a loan, and save the public credit. The loan hat-1 -
Cocoon,' end the cootractor was mar to make -
contract without 'Awl Mr. Pitt was consequentll, t
lad to supply Ibis money, which the house bad etn'4os4l,
other purpose. Arid yeti.iii this case, Mr. Pitt 01'
"'idled, but glad to take a Bill of Indemoiii'....ii
not mean to impute eorrut moire* to the prnit
pitihri sus re:a:ills:on:hi:li conceived
eevfel
tal igatooftill
: ttheiriitei
icaloilp:rulileciti;e 1 °gibe::
101 l '
of
I .:7:
feted e° page by unnoticed, or unrensarkerl bY .7..
strongly enforced, were the beet bulwarks of 5",,,,,
of the people--(Cheers)—and Ire considered
atbrdno,
4
support they would afford those privilogoit "
manner ill wh4th they could secure this perteei!e :
_dal)
by hold resolutions of their own. Such was:l,le,,t ~
of their aneestoes e met ire would reed a reeol tros ,
16th of MI. 1711, which he thought oppiied_ti)

4 r• • ,
T:.- . - ~..i,- . • V,,:?phj,.. -•::-,:- ..,-,c,,.,71,,,,,,,„41.r.,- le . eteescetweeice,...ee. eaceecereeeffeeeeseeeaeera.,,,, ~ . .. . ~ , •, , , : •• I /41
:. .
.. - ~....... . , , • ',e .
7. public opinion, and criticised the conduct of accommodetion might he afforded to the reporters thin* —the guardian of the successien—and the father of hiebrought in with a note appended, that,.
tot public men, to make those observations on the el o- they at present enjoyed.
people.—(Cheers.) lie hail always read and heard, and of an opinion given by the ,Attorney-General, no eV:,
..
oil reraingo of Members of that House they should think fit. Mr. sritlNG 111 OE, in explanation, did riot coinplain thought, and considered it a tidng established, that the hail been received on sugars not subject by the Ace.,,,.
of But lie was sure the House would agree with him that if of the accuracy of the reports, what' he complained of most important of the functions of that House was nar- duty, and being at the disposal of his Majesty. ' Neer ' •
ass the conduct of any Member was represented in eWcwsPsitcr was a comment upon his public conduct in that House. rowly to watch, and closely to examine every vote respect- them see, in the first instance, .what
was the questioisi i
hi contemn' e• ,
us i directly contrary to that which, in point of fact, it Lord ItIORPETu should be inclined next Session to ing the public expenditure; and se to the settlement of the to the Attorney- amend. It was, " Whether (as tie., •
out hail been, it wee the duty of that Member in the most adopt the suggestion of the Hon. Member fur Staffordshire, Civil List, he contended that the practice had been to settle been held that no property of his Majesty is, unless •'.: '
unrestricted manner to set himself right. A statement he did not construe the bileoce of Government into appro.' it.foetiewith upon the demise of the Crown, and previous cially subject to duty, liable to the payment of it) e
, .w,
DII- had been circulated among his Irish constituents,(lan et, that proposition. to a dissolution. The only exception was in the case of sugars granted to the King in kind, and not spec-114s le
i.e. calculated to inflict not only a personal injury •'O4M. W. RIL)LEY said, the nember of advertise- the suesession of his late Majesty to the Crown of his jetted to any Act of Custom Duty, being also subject :t
foie hut a practical injustice upon him, and which lie stunts which appeared in each newspaper clearly showed father. On that occasion Lord Londonderry counselled the his Majesty's disposal, and nowapplicable to puidie oh'
i'y should take the liberty of setting right. It had that st tax on newspapers dill not operate as a disadvantage dismissal of the Parliament before the settlement of the premed out by Parliament in-.tile Act 8 Geo. Wee*.
iu Wen said in two of the Irish newspapers that the to newspapers: But be thought a teductien'on newspapers Civil List, expressly stating, however, at the same time, (namely, the paymeet of the expenses of the Ecclesi " ,
Ilia lion. Member for Limerick, whom his constituents hail desirable. that it should not be drawn into a precedent, since it wise •Establishment of the West Indict) are liable to the '
inn entrusted with their confidence, hail declared before the Mr. HUME thought this a moat impertent question. recommended upon special grounds; and these were, that ment of any ,Custom Duty?" Now the . worth of . . •
rte, Parliament of England, that the Catholics of Ireland If the reduction of texatien on claret, supposing it to be although there was a change in the style, title, and dignity, Act. 6 Geo. IV. cap. 88, were...-e, And where.is it 11
at were unworthy of confidence! He took upon himself, good, would be the means of increasing the revenue, on yet that there was not any change in the person exercising pedient that the charge to be created payable, under,
no in the face of the Commons, surrounded by many who the same priuciple the reduction of taxation on news- the sovereign authority And here he must say—and it- authority of this Act, to the Bishops, Archdeacon'
ion- had heard his statement, and inviting contradiction papers would here the same effect. Ile begged the was in vain to dissestfle—that the Civil List was one of misters, and Catechists, appointed or to he appointed
and from say one individual—he took on himself to House to observe what took place In America, where those questions in which the people and the Crown had his Majesty as aforesaid, should be charged upon the d
km+ deny in the moat flat, direct, and unrestricted lean ' there were more ,advertistmenti in one town (New York) not precisely` the same interests. The Crown must natu- of 4if per teat. payable to his Majesty in the Weld., ...!
nor that ever lie had uttered such an expression, and that in the whole of 'London. Ills • Honourable Friend rally desire to obtain as large a revenue as it possibly can, whenever the said duties, after payment oft
.
uch to charecterise the statement lie alluded to as one of the hail observed that he thought the Governinent duty consistent with the means and with the burthens of the prior charges thereof, shall afford the means of :',
tier foullest enierepreeentations ever circulated in Ireland. Ile on advertieernents of Ss. 6d. "was not much ; but when people. The people, on the contrary, must be anxious to fraying the whole or any part of such salaries or •. '
to a did not, and could nut have stated that the Roman 6d. snore Was added, he must be allowed ti say that bestow upon the Crown as small a revenue as was ctn. lions :. be it therefore enacted, that the maid lel • •
-4,,,,
!rest Catholics were unworthy of confidence. He was the that struck out a great portion of advertisements. No- sistent with the decent dignity of a limited Monarch.--and pensions shall become and be a charge- upon the'_ s.
'ere last person that could have wished such an opinion to have thing could be of more importance than the reduction of (Cheers.)--He said the decent dignity of a limited Moe ties of four and a half per centum next in priority 0,,W,
'ring prevailed. The course he had taken was this :--He said duty on advertisements. He had no doubt if the duty on ad- starch, which was widely different from the ostentatious the salaries of the Governor" Lieutenant-Governors, ICS
~,:
that the House ought to watch with jealousy any motion vertisernents was reduced to Is. the revenue woeld. in the' glare of military despotism.--(Lord cheers.)—Now it other public officers, payable out of those duties after!r ge.
the lion. Member fur Cleve might tiring in on the subject long rim be considetahly increased. The tea 00 news- wasundeniable that the Crown exercised an influence in determination of any other. charges now existing 11 ' /4
the of the Catholics, not that he meant the House to under- paper, was a tax on the diffusion of knowledge, it was that House ; and what was the counterpoise to that influ- upon ; and that any and every surplus which shall et
sr in stand the lion. Member would bring in any Hill that was Whit lie must designate as an eati•Christiale Wm— ence I' The popular influence which was exercised when time arise out of the produce of thoee duties, after deke .
slay. not deserving of the approbation of the House, but that (Laughter.) Ile trusted the Noble Lad opposite (14" - they again Caine before their constituents, and appeared, ing all such other charges now existing thereulmnii' -e
ould he thought it was touch better for the Protest/into of polo would press this measure is another Session. The 'ln the words of his Hon. and Learned Friend the Member reason of the cessation of any of time charge*, when go ;t ~,
this country to legislate for tketintelvee on the subject of it„ua, of Commons he knew, and he trusted Ministers, for Knareshorough, to render up an account of their be applied in the first instance to defray the charges 011
tided the Protestant Church in Ireland. He, therefore, coin- would likewise go with bins. He trusted the, time stewardship, and declare how they had, and for what rea- salaries and pensions to be granted under the a '
it of plained of this statement, not only became it had been en*. was Sot far remote when the duty on paper eons they had, voted upon that great and nicely balanced of this act accordingly." But the Attorney-Generalt4
ciliated in the newspapers, but because it had been would be taken off altogether.'. The Peper-macre Sit the question.—(Hear.)--He thought accordingly, that the swered, he saw no reason why these sugars shoal .., ,
put. taken out, printed, and circulated among his constituents. pretend moment were in the great possible diltresel but he people should not be deprived of that salutary controul. It liable to the payment of any duty. He said----" we : i
wt.. lie would not enter into a controversy iu newspaper. with bad no hesitation in saying, if the duty was taken off was a novelty to attempt to deprive them of it; it was not of opinion that the property in the sugars in quest On.. L'''
y left any men, nut be had taken the liberty openly in that paper altogether, this country would become the menu- to be expeeted that the Members of a new House would lie ing in his Majesty, the same are not liable to the Pa/' .• •
lars. House, in the way in which every intlepentleut Member lecturer of paper (as it was at the present moment of cot- actuaeed by the Caine strong motives to deserve the public of any custoin duty." But then how did the Govern •;''.
ds, ought, when he had been grossly iniorepresented, to slats ton goods) for the whole world. He hoped the Chancellor favour as they were who were soon about to meet them act? Didthey proceed nut to levy the duties? Not fr
with how the fact was, and for the indulgence with which the of the Exchequer would be prepared to come to the House whom they haul been 'returned .to represent. He there- like it. On the cents ary, they did levy the .dutlee.; ~. •
c House had beard him he felt indebted. next Session with a repeal of the tax on paper altogether. fore' for One could not . countenance. this 'novelty, and this he should make quite clear tat the House. ~'vl,i'. e
die. Colonel SHITHORPE gave his hearty support to stir Mr, DAVENPORT wished to make a few observe. he hoped the people would .avail themselves of ono- might be sold in one of two ways...by...the abort Ft, t
that was, to come to a clear ~ understanding
Welt petition, persuaded that the greater the circulation of lion) relative to the great utility that would result from thee esontroul which was yet . allowed to them ; and which case the purchaser paid the duty Duly-'the Nil
and, newsespere the snore would society ho benefited, havingeerbatim reports. with price, which included the duty of the customer ;al d 7.1,,.
I to_ and the eely way by which that circulation could be in- Lord HOWICK felt coulliellied to call the Hon. Member their Representatives upon this subject. In saying the produce fell antler the Appropriation Act.
71:1,ipa
ad . :
creased, would he by a reduction of the heavy taxation.— to order. The Holies was not now discussing the moo- this, however, he begged not to he nusunderstoed. He fore it was clearly the duty of Ministers, having -4..0.
c this It there were any inaccuracy in the reports of the pre- racy of reportes• lost the subject if a petition presented by hoped the settlement would not be a siggardly,,one— to pay the same into the Consolidated Fund in °l' •
that ceedinge in that Howie, certainly the reporters ought not to the Noble Lord opposite. but a fair, just, and liberal settlement—ouches became the to the Act. This was the course they onght to :
be helmet], but lion. Members had themselves to blame. The SPEAKER observed that the Hon. Member was dignity of the King of England, and the character of hie taken, for there was a special appropriation.under the
For
, ut- Indeed it Was a universal surprise that the reports should most certainly out of order. It was true that when a people.—(floss.)--Ile trusted, too, that it would be 'a For the 10th of George IV, eap. 85, 'mein dee! rc
,he in general he so accurate. It wee the opjuion of Mr, subject wall !nought forward, one Member spoke on one settlement in commutation of all the hereditary ,posses. " And be it further enacted, that all money! cut
Justice Blackstone, Mt. Burke, arid the late Dr. Paley, point, and smellier on a different one, till the house hardly shins of the Crown, Crown Lauds, Droits of the Admi_ into the said Exchequer by one other Act of this , .
weer that the publication of every thing connected with that knew upon what subject they were discussing ; the rat', Droits of the Crown, Hereditary Revenues, and the of Parliament, entitled, eAn Act for continuing 4 i
uy, House, as well as the Lords, was a must desirable subject of the petition presented by the Noble Lord had outlaws from the Four-eind.a.flalf per Cent, Duties.— Majesty, for one year, certain Duties on Sugar in'llle
object. lie could himself urge thousetels of Arguments topics in it which had led to the discussion, but he must (Hear, hear.).-)—And, now to approach more immediately into the United Kingdom, for the service of thin
r 4
'ow in favour of the liberty of the Press.—(Loudclieers.)— fey tarot, +According to the rules of the Helm, the Hon. the subject on which he hash risen. HW4
He would say that it 1829,' shall be. further appropriated, and are OW'
To what were all the great public irtetitutient in- Member
was not in order. wes tl.e manner in which this fund had been managed for propriated,
deleted, iu comparison with the announce of the Prtst ? Sir ROBE PEE mRT L ust Icy that years that had induced him to turn his mien lie was extremely the last two and shall be issued and applied for and 1,
. the Several uses and purposes hereafter expressed.!' t'
Nothing. Under such circumstances, Gel folliiil glad his speeches had not been reported verbatim. time towards it. The Government had seemed anxious to This Appropriation Act went on to say.-
), hereditary revenue. And if he succeeded in making out Plies ei aids doll Or
that he should ever he supposed to entertain an Lord MORPETH felt honoured by the observations of throw a great mystery over those small branches of the " And it is hereby enacted, that the emu - •••''
opinion or do any thing calculated to abridge the the Honourable Member opposite (Mr. Hunie
era. liberty of the Press, or to prevent the Press front taking and could assure him that the subject should have his his case, lie earnestly hoped and trusted that- the people to any use, intent, or purpose whatever, other the?:
Provided as aforesaid, shall not be issued and sP • • ,
up the conduct of that House as a public hotly—a right hest attention. The object of whatever nlotion he would hoe on the approaching occasion, overlook the fact
which the press was entitled to eon:mood, and which the might bring tin ward would have the increale of wive,- or support any candidate, who would not pledge himself to merits directed to be satisfied thereout, by any Act er '..
tioenieuts. The Noble Lord then hreught up the petition, vote for a civil list upon an economical scale. But touch- UM and purposes before mentioned, or for the other or
Houle bad no right to deny.
Alr. LITI'LETON felt great satisCaction in supporting which was ordered to lie on the table. or any particular Claire or Clauses for that pure; ' k,
s ing the Pour-and-a-Half per cent. Duties, it might he tained in any other Act or Acts of this Session of l' 3,
..,
~.soil. the petition brought forward by the Noble Lord, Of Mr. 'O'CONNELL presented a petition from Mr, T. necessary fur him to enter into some details. He whoad ntent." doll
trot" his own knowledge he knew that these were tenons with Fla/Inman, relating to the ports in behold ; anti a pc- nut, however, trouble the House .by again ring over But now, as soots as he bad ascertained that the iii,,,
Coo' an income of two ter tine* hundred per ennui:ear well able tition from certainparithee in Wexford, eomPlaining of growls! which had been so often trodden, He ishotee was levied, it became necessary for him to seek ""in
per Cent. Duties had been • originally 'panted
that to exercise a round judgment int every eubject &trees. not %%ate their tissue hy showing how these pour_ana. formation respecting the amount. Returns efeee.e°
that Cattle before the public, as any set of lien Mr. O'BRIEN presented a petition from the gentry, a, eta
•nue it its the universe, but who were pree'udell from 1)144011g clergy, and freeholders of the county of Clare, complaining to Charles 11. by the Colonial Legislature, in c-onsiele_ ftohreaanctltui:laleabrygeGoovnertnhemerunnt,dfrofotur wcohli,cmhiailt app'"
re.
prayer of the petitlon ; suiting ,w commute the tenures auto tenures by moceage, . e '
that extensive knowledge which they otherwios would of distress, I ration of his aliandoning his feudal peivileges, and con. amounted to, in 1829, 42,8061. •; while the net•
fir J. procure, were it in their power to take iu &daily newspaper, Mr: O'CONNELL supported the of duties returned en these sugars amounted to '
rhos' het which they could not do, because it would cost them and observed, that the increase of the spirit duty in Ireland and to support the military establishments. Nell i el leaving a net for 1829 of 24,1871. Now on the
t wrs mu i
Id ,'"' 10/. or 111. per annum. The reprice of a country mewl. was calculated to increase illicit distillation. ' he trouble theta by showing how these duties hid been items in 1830 there was a net surplus of duties.
le the paper wee generally set more than fifty or sixty shillings Mr. O'BRIEN presented a petition from the gentry, awl misapplied by this Monarch and his suceestor, James 11. ; over the charge for salaries of 18,254/., leaving.*
a year, and yet he knew that the very, first indul- other inhabitants of the county of Clare, praying fur the or how they bed been granted to King William, as part of for the two years of 42,441/. Looking at this !
creed puce which the English yeomen were obliges! to deprive amendment of the grend jury laws. his privy pour; or hew, in the reign of Queen Anne, a re• naturally concluded this surplus had been appli u
themselves of was, that of continuing to take in one of Mr. O'CONNELL raid that the petition was most re- monstrance had been addressed front the Coloni.te to that expenses of the West India church establishment,
sober those papers, and whiell be could not but regard es a epectably rimier' ; and expressed his hope that the subject House; or how, in consequence, en Address was voted by it nearly tallied with the sum charged for the expeaSe!
, public hardship—a. public grievance.—(Meer, bear.).-:would be talon into serious 4:m41(10.46m the House of Cummons to her Alajeety, praying that 'they establishment during these two years, and he wan'
'stoup Ile contended that a small duty upon newspapers would Colonel WILSON presented a petition from the iplia- might be restored to their origins! destination. Nor-wrath' sistibly to this conclusion by the answer given - •
double their circulation, and that, by a redaction of the hitante of York, in favour of the New North nod , he trespass upon them even to show how they were, Prime Munster to a. question put to him upon the
IN ki' advertisement duty, the revenue wou dbe beneficial] to a SLAVE TRADE. during the subsequent part of Queen Anne's reign and that by a Noble Friend of his in another place. The', ..
I ion- eensiderable amount. lie roust say that the Curt duly of Sir ROBERT PEE!., by order of his Majesty, :pre- of the tutu first Georges, actually restored to their original used by his Grace were these—at least he teat. ,
the Legislature was to provide for the education of seeded, copies of correspondence respecting the slave trade. destination ; or how, by the Civil List Act of George 111., that form from what he presumed would be consider
the people, and be could see no means by which that FEES ABOLITION BILL. they were held to he part of the small revenues of the authentic source—
,
doing duty good be inmeeffectually accomplished then by placing Ott this ;notion of Mr. Hume, the amendments made Crown, and tutus came to be thenceforward considered m " There cast be no doubt that it is a conotitutionil
duties on. importation into this country. I do opt 0
tike up in the hands of the people, is extensively as possible, the hey the Howie of Lords in the Fees Abolition Bill were such. Now it was not necessary for his argument to ciple, that the property of the crown is not liable • '
remit- 'Mews of educated Inas. lie trusted the Noble Lord would ordered tube Wien into consideration on that day six comae' that they were not so, and ditl not fall within the
but Ido mean to contend, that it is not imprudent 0 iti.
mi,e„t early intim next Session bring forWartl some measure tot months; file Hon. Measlier obblined leave to bring in limits of the Royal prerogrative ; hut the question wool thrall, is always prudent to put that principle /0 Pr '
still remain whether, if arising frosts usage, the absence of
which the *Object. But if the Noble Lord did not, lie trusted surf a another on the subject.
COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY. Merge up to 1028 was not a waiver of the prerogative? • in practice in this case; because there are pr tr ri;
1,100 have as opportunity of seeing who were the Alembers who, The CHANCELLOR of Ilse EXCHEQUER having 'faking for granted, however, that the prerogative was cunistances attached to it, whieleare,eot likely toy' e.I
press• other lion. Member would, in order that the people might
discharged their deity to moved that the Heusi should resolve half into the Coin- clear, what would the House say upon the subject? Would in any other. I centend that these funds (oiler ~ lik
IV.) are taken outof the.hands of the Creecoel, ',,,
the(' under the controul and superiotendenee i.el , '
they say that, even supposing this, it was a justifiable exer-
. mittee of Supply,
aterwtiltilei Ittuystpheociirdve.otre upon that occasion,
1 tine Mr. O'CONNELL was quite convinced of this inability sir e, GitAffAm rose to propose hie Resolutions int eise of authority, upon the pair of the law adeisers of the I
mint, and can never be abused fur any parpOSe "a:, r
rn the of hie Honourable Friend to state any thing ro inaccurate the subject of the Four and a 'Wiper Cent. Duties. Ile Crown, to recommend the revival of that right?-..(Hear.)
. th„t as that which was imputed to him ; but he Was at the Inuit first, however, beg leave to arty a few words eu lb' —tie would, as bearing upon the question, quote the
delivered at a period when After this he certainly thought it uonecesearY '-'t .
more inquiries, especially as the Right lion. Ge.l;
n the same tissue surprised at his How Friend's ability to state, course 'imputed by Ins Majesty's Ministers or the patent opinion of a Crown lawyer,
he last at this distance of tinw, what he had actually said, uccaeion. Departing i
o from tee usual practice of proposing the doctrine of prerogative seas • high end much higher had pledged himself to meet Lim upon the cowl.: :
ra, mei Every body who knew hie Hon. Friend, knew hint tube is- the .Estimates to the House, and Liking the sense of the than at present. Sir Heneage rinch said, tr The King principle; bat a rumour haring reached him I t
surplus was nut applied to the expences of the NV° e
Morn. tiepattle of stating what the anonymous publications alluded Home upon thesis, he understood it was the nitration of hsth s prerogative in all things net injut•iints to the sub-
age from the year 1820 to 1828 there was 3
lathe, to had imputed to Wm. But be the misrepresentations eliuisters tiles night to ask fora considerable Vote of C,e- jest ;. but in all seeped{ the King's prerogative eiretcheth Church Estehlishment, and having found that on en ' i
would what they might, they occurred from the clumsy way in dit—a vote calculated tie mark the confidence of the House not to do any wrong." But -litre he might be asked to
useful which reports were given in that House. It would he better in those Ministers, at the very toonieut when they foetid explain what he meant by -prerogative ; and although. 17,0001, a year on the chary for, pensione over I dial
i war ato have somebody responsible for their reports in that themselves is a situation of peculiar diflleulty and clinger. uothing was more difficult than a definition, be believed ment, and that, therefore, there was a large arresri,o..
,ertiae. limas, fur under the prudent system every one did Si be Eves at au early period of the Session Ise, foe one, should he could bring forward one from a great man, and the first. tlist'pensioners, a (motion. was naturally railed in I'ool
ferriten pleased, and no one was Answerable. out have beeu diopmed to give them that mark of leetsli- logical authority the country ever produce], front whom, whether great interest had not been made to lorl .
31),q,,.r Me. E. DAVENPORT approved of the petition deuce, much less should he now he disposed to give ut to its from the fountain beatlethey could draw the principle's rear discharged out of the fund which had Wen re'
emelits which was presented, and was anxious that the an Administration which hid forfeited all the PrOtni.ea which governed the Revolution. It was scarcely nemo that legerdemain to which he alluded. On this lid
....
rof the repents should go forth properly in the newapaperi.— which they lead made; an Administration which had di.- soy for him to add, the individual he alluded to iris for a returiato show the, amount paid in relative liar
ion the But lie would ask, what would become of the appointed public expectation ;an Administration Which Locke, who said, " This power to act according teethe funds provided;and h -0 WAS cure the House Woul'lL it
✓ enter tittle of the Home, if every must who was mitt- had been weighed iu the balance, and fuund waiting; cretion, for the public, good, without the prescription of tonialted, 'as he had been, when he read to them 1' i
how- reprotenteil should maks a statement to the Hume of tut Administration which bad been found incompetent to law, andeennetimes even against it, is that which i• called paragraph, It elated abet the lotwout Paid fired
limier these inierepresentations? What, he would ask, could conduct the affeirsof the, country with credit to themeelves, prerogative.". Ile did not atop there, hut goes on to say the Church Establishment was 20,000/. per 0.....
lower. he more easy than for a body like dist to levee repot tete or with advantage to the State.—(Hear.)--ile was con- ei-e" And this power, whilst employed for the benefit 01 this was paid from thcConsolidated Feud till 00,
r. Hs of its own, sworn to report every word that passed viewed that from this Administration public opinion was the cononunity, and suitably to the trust and ends of the as the state of the Four and a Half per Cent. MCP'.
umnt ha in that House accuratelv—(Great laughter)—or ma rapidly receding, and he felt it War unfortunate that leis Government, le undoubted prerogative, and never is such as to admit of their hieing defrayed from it aft
• _ . e, .. _ a ..• , . e ..:., se .. the 1.
roar,