The Sun.
London, England, 1806-05-08 00:00:00

IRON.

The Duty he meant to propose was 52 s . per cwt.
which was not above half a farthing a pound. It was
to attach upOn Russian and other Foreign Iron,
slit, • hammered into rods, or drawn less than
three quarters of an. inch square. The" Com-
mittee would perceive that British Iron was left free,
and as that was convertible to all agricultural put-4
poses, he hoped that the present duty woad not be
severely felf he estimated its produce at I 5,0001.
The next article upon which he had to propose a
duty was
TEA.

• This duty was intended principally for the purpose
of regulatio.4 and to prevent evasion. The duty he

.1-noposed. to lay on was r,..) o per cent. upon Tea undoe
13d. per pound, ifulhe estimated the produce at
about 520001. He carnemext to the article of

STAMPS.

lle meant to propose an entirely new modification
of .the Stamp Duties of Ireland, and he should pro-
_pose,,,,to_repeal the existing Stamp Duties, for the
purpose of substituting a new Aa,. in' which all the
Daties.should. be brought into one. point of vieNx.
He expeded as much,from the effed_ of the new re-
gulations which he meant .to adopt as from the in-
crease of the Duties. This great objeei was to pre-
vent the evasions which were constantly.pradised,
The Stamp Ditties were in a considerable degree'af-
feded by Attornies, with, in case's where, the proceed-
ings did not go beyond the second stage, did not issue
the Process' upon StampS; though they were charged •
to the Client. Now ,it certainly was right that
Whatever was paid hy. the Public should be received
by the TreaStiry. There were several °tiler regula-
,tions to prevent evasions and frauds The other
Stamp Duties were uponteases;upon Bonds (Which-1
for small 'sums 'was- very inconsiderable;' .and in-
creased according to the amount of the•Bond';' but
in all cases- it. was considerably lower' than the
Duty on Btitids in Great Britain), Deeds :of. Sale,
AWards, Agreements, and ,ReCeipts for Legacies
stnall Duty of to .per cents was proposed up- •
on Legacies' •to Children, where .the 'such exceed-
ed 5001. ; ~and -UpOn thet•Licences fur Attornies
who; had not practised ,three :,years 11.5' and 21.
upon those' who had praised rourrer..,' The various
regulations and tid:iition:; to 'theSbtatnp
clusiye of the•Duvies upon Entries, 'he estimated at
80,0001. The Duties upon Entries inwards,' begin
-
'lli* with. Duties amounting- • to ,51. and carry-
ing them 'on proportionably, and doubling theni
on of view and store, except on coffee
and tobacco, he estimated at .20,00 A He now came
to the subje& of the Distilleries. He had to state to
the House,, that precious to the last Session,' stills of
200 gallons might legally be, worked, and durina
that time, in order to encourage large stills,
could not so easily defraud the revenue, because they
could be more easily watched, a bounty was allowed
on stills of 500 gallons of 81. and 161. on those of 1000
gallons. But in the last Session all stillS under 500
gallons were prohibited, but the bounty upon 500 gal-
lon stills continued ; so that, in fad, there was a bounty
given to the distiller for -working a still which 'the
law dire&ed him to work in. The consequence 'of.
this was, a'considerable redudion of the:Revenue,
for the distillers reduced their stills to that standard
.which was more :advantageous to them, because
from the facility of working them more liquor, could
be distilled in two stills of 500 gallons than in one
of 1000• gallons. This &minty, therefore, aced in 'a
dired-inverse-ratio to the original intention of Go-
vernment, because it encouraged the small 'stills.
He therefdre proposed to take away the bounty ,
upon stills of five hundred ,gallons, to reduce the
bounty upon stills of one thousand gallons one
half, viz. td 81: and to grant the bounty.. of 16 per
cent. upon stills 0f.1500 gallons and upwards. - This
alteration he. calculated would produce 70,0001; The
next proposition' he had to make was to • put the
malt-houses in the country on the same footing as
those in Dublin and other towns. This regulation he
calculated would produce 60,0001. He did not
mean to propose any additional duty 'upon HatS,
Auctions, or Paper, but rpork, some regulations in
the colleEtion of the present duty, which would pro-
duce about 50001. There was..a small sum paid
to Captains of Ships, as portage, which the
Commissioners of Inquiry recommended to be
abolished, because almost all of it went into,
the
.pocketS of. the Agents of the Captains.
This amounted to 50001. These were. the se,
veral duties and regulations •which he ; meant to
propose for raising the necessary Supplies for the
service of the year. The amount of them; according
to the estimate he had made, would be,.317,8001: I
-from this stain ova:, to be dedu&ed, on 'account of old
Duties given, 10,1451., viz. for wool licences 1451.
and for the as. house-tax 10,0001. :There would,
then remain 307,6651. It might be askud,why he
had not looked to a fund which he had pointed
' out last year as a resource—he meant' the ba-
lances of deceased and dismissed Colleaors:
He could assure the ComMittee that' from the.
time he came • into . he • had not been in-
attentive to 'this subject, and be was sorry to say
that in the last year- a. very considerable augmenta-
tion of those balances had taken place. In 1804
.they amounted to -1 88,0001. and last year they were
220,00101. which wasan increase of 3%0001. besides
19;0001. balance of former years, which had been'
colleded; so. that 'the real 'increase was. above.

50,0001. If ,they were to continue -to increase at

the same rate, they would abs Orb the whole Re-
venue. He had repeatedly stated in that House,.
his opinion, that a considerable portion of this
ney was recoverable, and he now.felt himself war-
ranted, after a correa examination, in repeating
that assertion. Upon investigating, which he had
done minutely, the Returns made by the Solicitors
employed .for .the recovery of these balances, he
found that proper Means had not been resorted to to
enforce payment ;, that in many instances insufficient
sureties had been resorted to where good ones ex-
isted ; that men of opulence, who were able to
pay, had been' let to pass ties', while poor men •
had been sued. He had felt it his duty to state
his opinion upon every article of th6e Returns;
and he had sent over direetious for the .adoption of
effeaual measures for enforcing payment; and he
certainly would persevere in his attempts to accom-
plish that objeci. He was aware that many of these
balances were not recoverable; some were due al-
most a century ; • but he was convinced, as• he had
already stated, that a considerable part of them were
recoverable—not less, in his opinion, than 130,0001.
If it were due to him, he was sure he codld.recover
it ; and with the facilities Miich. the laW afforded for
colleding the Debt of the Crown, there . could
be very little doubt upon the subject. He really
should not have felt warranted • in• asking for
new Taxes if he had not , been able
,to state
the means Which- had' been used for recovering
this money dde to the public, and. he Sincerely
hoped that the Committee would continne their
inquiries every
.year, and that they would take
care that every part of these. `balances which were
recoverable rnight be recovered, and the remainder
done away-for ever, There Was .neon the Table a
Report from the Commissioners of Imprest Accounts
with respea to the' Linen Board ; it stated adefi-
ciency to a considerable amount, It was not in-

tended that this Report 'should ternaiti 'a dead
letter. Directions have been given to the Law Of,
ficers of the Crown to take.the most a&ive steps for
the recovery of the money, and if any delinquency
should occur, that the necessary Measures shouldbe
taken for punishing .it 3 because- it appeared to him
that where any delinquency existed, the bare reco-
very of-the money was not -Sufficient -: for if persons
could keep public motley for many years, and then
when the circumstance was found nut, merely be
called 'upon to pay the money, it would realty be
giving: something like encouragement -to such con,,
duCh There WaS another
.sum' 'which he hoped
to haVe looked to thiS year, in aid of the Ways
and Mean; Of Ireland and that was, the bl-14
_lance due to Ireland upon the joint contribution
amounting to 860,0001. -But upon examining the
accounts for last year, appeared that the excess of
payment on the part of Great Britain was 560,0001,
and the remaining 300,0001. was absorbed by the -
money-advanced by EnMarid for the payment of the'
Lottery. Prizes: • He- would not,. trespass any longer
upon the time of the 'Committee, and he begged to
return-his-thanks!' for the attention with which he
'had been fiveured.., He then concluded with movj
ing the first ResolutiOn. . • • ,
Mr. FOSTER 'said, it, may naturally be expeaed
that he should" make some- observations on a subjed
with which' he was lately so much .conneeled, and
even alluded to in the speech of the Right Hon. Ba-.
ronet. He e: pressed great satisfaelion in hearing
that theFinanceSand Trade of Ireland. Were now in
the flourishing siturftion repte-ented ; but he felt re-
gret; at the same-"time, in having to state,- that till
within these fonr -years the-exports had produced
,there, and therefore left the balance against us. • If,
however; 'it was true, that since the year 1792 the
exports were never greater than in the last year, and
that' the-imports were also increasing, they would
be likely soon to bring- back the balancein ortr fa-
Our. The Right Honourable Baronet said, that ,
his intentions Were to raisethe*hole quota of Ire-
land, for thepresent year, by. Loan, without any
War Tax, or means of raising any considerable por-
tion 'of the Supply within the year. If so, there
was an alarming
,prospea of . the growing Debt,
-which he feared .the Country Worild be unable to
support. In- the year 1797 the Debt of Ireland was
7,000;0001. and, proceeding in the same ratio of in-
crease, in the year 1807 it would be 64,000,0001.
The be very striking, if that increase
were compared with what- took place in the Debt of
England since the Union. When that event -oc-
curred! the Debt of :Ireland was only 32,000,0001.
and this year it was double. The. Debt of Great
Britain was 460;000',0001; and was now no more
than 548,000,0001. Which the House must perceive
not to be by any mean's in the proportion of seven and
a half td one, which was :the quota settled for the,
contribution of Ireland. It: was therefore the in-
terest of -.Great •Britain, as well as Ireland;' to take
the best means- of keeping down the. Debt of Ire-
land ; as W,llCil the period of equalising. the joint
contribution should arrive, that Debt' would fall
upon the-finances- of this Country. .This he only,
stated -at present, for the purpose: of shewing the-
'necessity of raising,a great portion of the expense
by -taxes within' the year, In the present year, two
millions 'were raised for the service -of Ireland, by
'limn, but it. must be reinetubered, that one-half of
it was supplied: by- agents going over there from
British 11071SeS, and • purchasing from the funds of
this Country. He congratulated the :Right Hon.
Bart. on the circumstance of thelrish Loan being
raised thiS year' at 7s. per cent. less than the Loan
for-England, whiCh was certainly a symptom of the
groWing presperity of the Country.- As one means
of continuing and increasing, that prosperity, he
would rest mmend to the Ministers et that Country,
to take measures for eqealising the 'exchange.—
: Mich,. however, done by the condua of the
late Board of Treasury, which left it on the sth of
January, last, .without one farthing of Unfunded debt-
or Treasury bills ,unpaid; a circumstance he believed
which scarcely ever happened in. that Country,be-
, fore. The bad consequence complained of, as
arising from the too great issue of paper, was ia
some measure remedied by the'condua of the late'
Trea'sury in sending over silver tokens. The quan-
tity so transmitted was to the value of 250,0001. in
silver, and the remainder in .copper, making in the
whole 369,4391. But even that was far from being
sufficient for the wants of the Country, which would-
at least require a circulation of silver to the amount-
of one million. :He had already stated, 'that When
the Members of the late Board left the Treasury,
not a farthing remained due to any one person on
the establishment; nor did their successors find any,
arrears. whatever or any balance due. In the year
Were that, there wasin the hands of the Receiver
-General a -balance of 350,0001. all of which they re-
covered, except about the sum of 11,0001. It was
true, however, that they also took off all the emo-
luments before, attached to-the office of Teller of the
Exchequer, for which it was their intention to make
a .c.impensation, after having recovered from him a
balance of 150,000 k SUch were a part of the pracli-
cal effeas of the'new regulatious he introduced into
different departments, but they were nipped in the
bud about the close of the last Session, notwith-
standing that the most material of them were sup-
ported by the' Commissioners of -the Customs. By
the. estitoate • made in last June_ twelvemonth, he cal-
culated on -an increase in the Revenue of 800,0001.
to which he expetqed to acid 400,0001. by the duties
on distilleries and malt; but as these articles did not
rise in price, the last calculation was not realized.—
He then-entered at large into a justification of the
measures adopted in his Administration,. and into
the produce of the various taxes in different periods ;
from which he inferred, that in the last year and a
half there was an increase of one-million and a half,

which would skew that the resources of .the Irish
Revenue were not misconceived by him. The Right
Honourable Baronet bad stated, that there was of

the produce, of last year, 2,4 0 000 1 . remaining in the
hands of the.Colledors, which, however, Would be
made good,; but he might also have added, that
there was a great defalcation in the colledion itself.
For instance, the entries on coachmakers and bra-,
ziers were not collected at all, and the smuggling of
tobacco in Ireland_was too notorious for him to be
under the necessity of proving it. The wine duty
also, which in 1800 produced a revenue of 200,0001:
• IA as in a great measure lost to ttie Public, by allowing
merchants to place 'the. cargoes in warehouses, by
which they evaded. the payment of the duties; at
the sane tine that. they charged them to their cus-

1.,r1

•
totters. to pro of till's, ire Satc that--2.0 or 30
tons of wiee were, in one (ley, taken openly from
the eteles cc Deblin,: without -paying:any ,
Great losses were also-sustained in the Custom Du-
ties, by the frauds committed in, the irnportat:on. of
deals,. bark, and Various, other- articles. The article
of wrought iron would require
:the ;greatest
.Vigi-
lance and- attention. In the laeteyear, • the duties
amounted' only. to 53.„8001. which was 38,0001.
less than What should be expected from the returns
of the quantity exported to Ireland frOrn"Great Bri-
tain only ; so that the Mistake_ or fraud must have
occurred either •in the Customs of Great Britain or
Ireland... He
.then referred to .:the new 'Taxes
proposed this evening, .many of which he thought
would not.prove very produetive... One of these was
the additional dtity of -three shillings and sixpence a
'hundred .on sugar.. That. article had been, lately
*subjeaed
,to a ,high, duty, which brOught 130,0001.
More than :the' sum at which it was estimated ; ,but,
:as the Country was.now_oyerstocked With it, "unless
4t should,rise in price, the tax would not produce a
farthing. 'The estimate made, that the new duty'
'on tea; under 2s. 6d. which had a great consump-
tiot in Ireland, would produce only 20001. be
thonght„.must be a .mistake, as the, duty on the
same article, last year, produced no less a sum
• than 453,0001. ; and, "on the same scale,.. this
additional. tax .ought to yield 70,0001. As to
the Tax upon printing presses; he did not well
understand what it meant. There was 'no licence.
required for any other presses but. those of paper
stainers; which had no relation to arileother sort of
printing. As to the balances in the hands of the
different Collectors, which , were reduced from
445,0001 'to :200;0001: he had only to say, that no
pains were taken to enforCe the 'recovery of ba-
lances from the dismissed and deceased Colleaors ;
and he thought the Right Hon..aronet. would find
himself deceived if he relied on the- recovery of
their balances as a very productive hind. He then
stated the nature of the improvements he intended
to propose had he remained in office. The first
was to"l'elieve the Woollen Trade from the. difficul-
ties under which it laboured. In, the second' place,
'if the two Countries were to be put in all other re-
speBs upon the footing of equality,- it should extend
to the interest,of tnoney, which in England was at,
and in•lreland at' 61:. per cent. .and this must be'
an eternal obstacle to their possessingem equality of
trade. His next object would be to. equalize the
currency of both Countries, and give to Irish Mel.=
charm the same advantages of warehousing and
bonding their goc;ds, in- the same manner as was
done in England ; with these, and some other regu-
lations, he should hope the Country would prosper,-
if it were not kept back by: a yearly increase of the
Public Debt. • ' • •
Mt. I. CORRY . said, the • Right Honourable
Gentleman seemed to have two distina objects in.'
his Speech ; first, to criticise• On the- proposals' of
the Right Honoutable Baronet ;-'and secondly, to
give himself a sort of posthumous Budget of what
he meant to• propose, had be remained in office.
If he thought there should-be an assimilation of the
currency of both countries,_ why did be not bring it
.forward while he remained, in an official;. situation ?
Why had he not done the same with regard to the
equalization of interest ? The fa& :Was, thdt he
knew.it to be impossible,;, though perhaps he-might
have made same experiment of the kind, he had.
not been checked and. controuled 'by the lumin-
ous genius of that greft eman (Mr, Pitt)' whose
loss Ire, in common with the majority of -the emit-
try, must for ever deplore. It-was very 'desirable;
that the-House should net-.be led into any-delusion
on these 'subjects. It was not the preferable 'security,
but the greater interest t 6 be obtained in Ireland,
which conveyed' to it a considerable 'portion of the
capital of this country e and a Bill.to equalize the in-
terest, in which the Right,-Hon. Gentleman (Mr.
Foster) was very active, had some years ago been
rejected,' for these reasons, by the Parliament of
'lreland. The Right Hon. Gentlenian'also,recom-
rneeded:to raise a great part of the. Supplies within
the year ; but he had 'made the experiment him-
self, and the produce of hiseown,Taxes gave no en-
couragement to such a proceeding. If bethought it
did, why did he not do so himself in the last year ?
He had also said, that it was an unprecedented thing
to leaVe the Treasury Board of Ireland without one
shilling of unfunded debt, any Exchequer Bills, or
any salaries unpaid. This was rather strange, as,
when he succeeded him (Mr. Corry) 'in office, he
found the Treasury in exactly the same situation ;
and one of his first measures was to revive 800,0001.
of Exchequer Bills which he (Mr. Corry) had paid
off. The Right Hon. Gentleman complained of
too much circulation of paper, but his Bill of last
year had inundated Ireland with paper currency.—
It made very little difference whether the Lout was
made in England or Ireland, as the stock rinfsecome
to the Irish market at any- rate, and the stockholder
in England receive his interest froM Ireland. "'lt was
also an error to say, that the Collectors' balances
Were 200,0001. when, in faa, they were no more
than 41,0001. He then said, that he was willing to'
confine himself to these ,statements for the present,
but should enter more at large into ,the subject if he
should ever hear Mr. Foster repeat any similar ek-
pressions. •
Mr. FOSTER replied, that he did not, when in
-office, propose -to" equalise the coin or the interest
of money, because
m
the. circumstances of the mo-
ment rendered it impracticable, there being very
little gold or silver in the country.
Mr. PARNELL said, that beshad a great dislike
-to ' raising.. the .Supplies .only by a Loan, because,
though the Revenues of Ireland' had increased, the
Expenditere had exceeded them ; the Country' had
now only three millions 'of Revenue to supply-five
millions Of -Expenditure. If this system were to
Continue, lie did not see how it would be possible to'
provide the Supplies.; for future years. Since, the
year 180, there were Taxes to supply the interest of
2,8 00,000 1. 'and yet the Revenue was only benefitted
• 50,0001. by them. The. increase of the deficiencies.
of Taxes must prove either that the resources of the
• Country :were inadequate; 'or that there was great
mismanagement in' the colleEtion of theta. On
a comparison of the Exports and Imports, it'shoUld
' ,seem, that by the former, the wealth of Ireland
Niels consiclerdbly increased of -late years ; 'and the
inference was confirmed by the improvements
carrying on in buildings. Fore some time past,
though the export of articles of food was much
diminished,' vet the import 'trade was egreatly aug-
mented e and when a country was enabled to retain

Its fowl at liornq for the t onsurnritlon of its own inh4.:=

bitants, it :,fforcled an indubitable proof of its pros-
perity. For these reasons lie vas inclitled to attri-
bute the lailtire of the revenue to misingiageMent
in the colleaion ; and if the Debt of Ireland were
snffered.to accumulate in the same ratio that. it had
done for some years past, in 15 years hence, tvheti,
by the Aft of Union, the Funds and Debts of both
countries
_were to be united, the Debt of Ireland
would arnonnt to 120 millions, which, as that Coun-
try', would be unable to pay, must ultimately fall on
the Finances of Great Britain. ,

Mr. ROSE said, that the failures in Ireland had
been considerable, and he heard with pleasure of the

• -
means embraced for preventing their., recurrence.
The policy of ,raising the , Supplies for the Public
Service within the year for which they were appli-
cable, he thought most salutary and sound ; but the
Right Hon. Baronet had not prdposed ,to raise more
than 6 or 700,00,01. more than the interest of the
Debt, and therefore the Civil List of Ireland, as well
as the Navy and Army, remained unproVided for.
The equalizationof the currency between this Coun7
try and Ireland was a very desirable measure, and
one which was not. agitated now first • but it had

been' found that many'pfeliminary 'steps were neces-

sary. to its accomplishment.
Mr. LEE thought, that, .considering the great
Debt, and the extent of the taxation, the specie of
Ireland-was not sufficient for all the purposes of that
Country. There'was no solid ground for taking off
the restriction, on thQßank of Ireland so long as it

_ .
confirmed in England. If, whilst the exchange
continued at-11 against-Ireland, the restriaion were
to be removed, there would not, in a' short tithe, be
a guinea left in that country; and, as long as it Con-
tinned, he thought the small paper. currency ane-.
cesssary succedaneum for the common purposeS of
life, in the markets, and he did'not.see how it could
be said to raise'the course of exchange against 'lre-
land. 'Sothe time ago the eichange was at-17.; but
now the issue of paper' had Very much increased; it
Was-only ti. The ,English, and high guinea and
shilling- were Of the same value ; it was in half-
penCe that there was 'a deficiency ; and *by'sand-
ing over a larger 'copper- ~coin, 'the objea of
equalizing the currency would
.be ansWered.7--
To lower the interest of money in Ireland would
be a most desirable thing ; and the great difficulty
alledged to exist in effecting it, Might be removed;
by providing, that all bargains to be made' should
be 'only at an interest of 5 percent. whilst those ex-
isting previous tO the passing of an A&, might' be
..legalised, until the stipulated period of their -expira-
tion. The Hon.. 'Member thought that the harriers
against raising the Supplies in Ireland within the
year were insurrnountablei as the money, was so
necessary to the trades, and manufactures ; and
thought that, considering the LOan of fbur.milliOns;
the Taxes proposed by .the Right Hon. Baronet
were more mild and moderate than could have' been
expected.
, Mr. ROSE explained.
Sir, J. ATIVPORT said; that heavy Taxes could
not he imposed upon Ireland at the time. a Supply
was necessary, consistentlywith any wise or efficient
principle: This had been strikingly exemplified in,
the last additional Tax upon Wine, which had ope-
rated so as to' occasion a defalcatiOn in the last year
of 74,0001. froma revenue of about 320,0001, which
it had yielded the year before. ThiS would strongly
prove how delicate and caretAthetegislature- ought
to be not to puSh the. Taxation to an extent which
would induce the consumer to relinquish the use of
the article 'entii-tily. Not 'only the reduced con-
sumption
of Wine, but' the increased number of
Absentees from-Ireland, were attributed to excess
of Taxation. At present, hp was happy to state,
that it. was not necessary, to resort to any great in-
crease of Imposts on that Country, as at the end of
the last year there remained 800,0001. due to Ire-
land, not' drawn over from 'England, 'and which
-would more- than cover the outstanding Treasury
Bills; and althOugh he meant now to give the House
a power of calling fbr 500,0001.. he: had reason to
believe that not more. than half would be wanted.
' Mr: GRATTAN could not entertain the idea of
making Ireland find all her resources in the year for
which they were to be applied. Two years ago
this principle had been extended to the infliction of
an additional 120,0001. a-year ; and if, every second,
year, the Minister, were to come to Parliament with
a new system of Takation, it.would alarm the
.Peo-
ple of Ireland, and the measures would, in all pr -
bability, entirely fail of their obje6l. However
the prosperity of the Country-might have increased,
its wealth was not such as to encourage new Taxes.
.The increased wealth arose in: part from the issue of
Paper ; but every Miller \Vas. a Banker, and he feared
it was a false 'capital : the aggregate opulence ;of the
.Country was, however, considerably, increasing.—
The'Right Hcn. Baronet was certainly right not to
precipitate Ireland into the system suggested,;' but it
was a discussion- not called for now, and he (Mr.
Grattan) considered it wrong to introduce any ques-
tion on Irish Affairs' extraneous to that before the
House ; would therefore, at once. give his assent
to the Motion.
A Desultory Conversation ensued on the proposed
Duties on Iron and Sugar, between Mr. FosTEi;
Mr, ItosE, Sir J. NEWPORT, Mr. CORRY, Mr. VAN-
SITTART, Lord HENRY PETTY, and Lord CASTLE-,

The Resolutions were then put and agreed to, the
Report ordered to be received tO-morrotv, . and the
Committee to sit again on Friday.
At the instance Of LOrd HOWI CK, Mr.
JEFFERIES consented that the Motion of whiCh he
had some time'since given notice, should stand for
Tuesday next. -
.Mr. TIERNEY postponed the consideration of. the
Treating Bill till Monday. • , .
Lord HENRY PETTY .moved. the Order of therDay
for farther considering the'Property Tax Rill.

On the. Question tfiat.it be ie7cOnunitied,

Sir`H. MI LDMAY observed, that 'many Members t
had been impressed w'rth the belief that. it would not
come on that night, and the opinion had been rather t
sanaiOned by the Noble Lord himself. -
Lord HENRY PETTY replied, that: he had always
expressed his intention of bringing the Question on
then, if the other business before the House would
permit him; at the same time, he had no objeaion
to meet the desire of the Hon. Baronet as far as he
could; to which end, all that he Should propose
would be, that the Bill should be re-committed.
Sir H. Mii.DmAY said, that to his certain know-

ledge A betttbet ot Menibetg back left the 1-Pause iin-
d+r the iMpression.he had stated.
Mr., IVM. SMITH rose:,--Howerer much re
luaance he felt- 'to oppose a'measure of his Big))
Hon. Friend. (Lord H. Petty), he certainly ha(,
great objeaious to this Tax ; and he could not but
feel for those who brought forward a Bill Whicii
he was sure they must,. condemn. The Properi'.
Tax, as it was called, Was certainly altered from the
Inconie Tax, but mote in its 'denomination than in

its effeEt ; and he could not but consider this new
name as something like hanging out false colours,
to avoid, the odium. the old'Tax had„acquired, whilst
the new one was really almost entirely the same.—
The principle of disclosure, which rendered it so ob-
je&ionable, and which only the almost omnipotent
poWer of the Right Hon. Gentleman by whom it was
first introduced, could have. reconciled the House
to, . was still a feature of it, and vitiated the -cshele.
But there were other obje&ions: the Tax, he thought,
if tolerated- at all, ought to :affeEt more those better

able‘to bear it, and lesS those whose means were
moderate. He feared, from what he had learned,
that this was a radical defer.. With what propriety
could it be called the Probity Tax ? Could trade and
professions be called a property ?—lf a man had
5001. a year, 'which he derived from his buSiness
and his industry, should he be taxed for that
in the 'same proportiOn as' the man who enjoyed
001. a year from fee-farm, tents ?—The teart.
" Property" was only.a disguise, whilst the. Tax
was really one on capital. The system of disclo-
sure; detestable in any case, applied principally to
thOse to whom it-was most grafting and
,injUrious
those who most wished thaftheir concerns should
not be known to all the world ; and whilst this con-

tinned a commeftial • country, that was au objec-
tion that would also continue. He knew 'not into
what other hands the duty could be placed, but it
was a ••Inost unpleasant circumstance that Govern 7
ment were: obliged to employ so many Inspe&ors
and Surveyors, who were ernpowerea to inqUire into
the circumstances of every maii, and of ten exercised
their authority from motives for which industry,
zeal,- and fidelity, were terms: that served only:.for
a cloak. •With respect to raisinO.he duty to to per
cent. he had very little obje&ion to that,- more than
that in proportion to the amount of the Tax
,an en-
couragement was offered to attempt* evasion: It
was of very little consequence whether it Was five
or ten per cent. because it was known that the
money must be raised;-,but the objection was, that
the Tax operated unjustly, int-EL:ling an equal bur.-
then on the man who had a business worth three
,years' purchase and the man. who had a capital
worth 30 years' purchase: -He.worrdered how such
a measure could be tolerated, and much wished the
Noble Lord (Petty) 'could, in his ingenuity, devise a
Tax less fundamentally objeaicnahle.
Sir ROBERT BUXTON thought the Tax un-
just. -On a former night it had been said, that it
should operate as a Land Tax, under which no ex-
emptions were to he allowed. The policy of this
principle had been formerly confuted, having been
acted upon and relinquished.. The, Hon. Baronet
particularly called the attention of the House to the
situation of Country Gentlemen of about Wool.
a year, who would feel the Tax, beyond all others,
and would be driven hy its pressure from their coun-
try seats into' towns,' where they could not be useful
in the eminent way which the antiquity of :their
families, and their capacity as Magistrates; rendered
them ill their Paishes ; Where, by their presence
and long residence; ,they gave to the Law a weight
which it would not otherwise carry.• No man, at
any time more warmly supported. the War, or saw
more clearly the necessity of its vigorous prosecu-
.ltion now, than the Hon. Baronet ;• he wished to
give all the support in his power to the Ministers,
and said thus much now Only .with a view of inti-
mating, that he had some obje&ions to offer' to the
Tax in a future stage.
Sir' a.MILP...44AY objeaed to the partial ope-
ration of the Bill on • the landed, property of the
Country : -he did noEmean to say, that the- landed
interest were not able to .support* The Tax; and
much more, if the .wisdom of Parlianient should
deem it right to intlia,it—but it was extremely de-
sirable. that property should be equally assessed. The
small landed Proprietors with. large funnies would
feel the Act With particular severity, as there were
no. abatethents allowed for 'Children. The great Va-
riety of expellees incidental to the support and
education of large families, would, he hoped, point
these Proprietors out to the House as :fit objets to
have abatements extended to. The Hen. Member
_pointed out some other things which he thought•
required improvehlent in the Bill ; but as they will
.be .repeated in the Committee, we. abstain at 'pre-
sent from following him into all the'branches of his-
Speech: - •
Mr. pERCIVAL.stated, that he had always been
a friend to
.the Tax, and thought he should best
evince-Ms disposition to assist Government by stating,
that lie would not mye moment oppose. the Speaker's
leaving the Chair, in order to this important Bill
being .direaly, discussed, and passed into a Law.
The Tax would 'fall 'more evenly and justly upon
the people. than any that could possibly be devised
for raising such a sum as it was calculated to pro-
duce. The allowance of abatement he thought was:
dquiestion which deserved to be well considered ;
but it •the Noble Lord • (Petty) found that any ex-
tension of indnlgence, in that shape, was really in-
compatible with the :efficiency of the Bill, he- would
not press. it. . •
Mr.- WILBERFORCE said, • be rose not for the
purpose of opposing the Speaker's leaving the Chair,
but to say he would ernbrace•a futurempportunity
of arguing the necessity of allowances to persons
lifting large 'families. It should be remembered.
that the fathets of those families had to insure their
lives, as the only way of provii•ling'for their widows
and children. He should also press upon the House;
in proper time, the situation' of subaltern. Officers
in the Artily 'and Navy ; and particularly of Cler-
gy-men *subsisting upon small incomes, and widows
lea. with small proviskons which they could not
augment. -He highly approved of the principle
of raising.:a gieat sum wi,hin the year to answer
the exigencies of the State; it was that. lalbrie
which would 'afford us security in Peace,- or success
in War.
Mr. Et.i.isoN- made a few observations in favour of
the Tax.
Air. SPENCER STANHOPE thought,..hat to
admit of no eienaptions was a bad principle of taxa-
tion ; and that-it was neither politic nor humane to