The Sun.
London, England, 1863-02-18 00:00:00

AFFAIRS OF ROME.

The Marquis of NORMANBY rose to call the attention
of
the house to the correspondence lately presented on the
affairs of Rome, and also for the purpose of asking her
Majesty's Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs for
some explanation of certain passages contained therein
referring to the policy of her Majesty's Government en
this subject in the year 1849. The papers referred to ex-
plained that, although in 1849 there had been acquiesence
in the French occupation, there was no approval of such
a proceeding. The French occupation arose out of the as-
sassination of the first constitutional minister of Rome on
the steps of the National Assembly, which, however, passed
the order of the day instead of paying any attention to
such an event, and a few days after that the intelligence
of the proclamation of the republic was received. He received
a despatch from Lord Palmerston expressing the opinion
that the Pope should have temporal sovereignty, and that
despatch he thought did not confirm the recent statement
of Earl Russell that acquiescence did not imply approval.
It was then that Lord Palmerston entertained the hope
that with the return of the Pope there would be a
return to constitutional government, but another despatch
from Lord Palmerston in March stated that the Govern-
ment had much pleasure in hearing of the proposed French
occupation. It was after he had protested against the pas-
sage of the French troops across the frontier, thinking that
if once they passed that position they might not return ;
but Lord Palmerston admitted that might be quite true,
tut that he could not prevent it, as the Pope, if not restored
by the French Government, would be restored by some
other Power.

Earl GREY rose to order. He did not think it was con-
sistent with the order of the house to refer to private
papers.

The Marquis of NORMANBY then read numerous pas-
sages from the despatches, and commented on them as he
proceeded, observing that the Pope must feel' exceedingly
grateful for the noble lord's deep anxiety at his being able
to resume spiritual authority over the Roman Catholic
populations; and he expressed a wish to know whether the
noble lord had obtained other information to that contained
in the p ipers, that induced him to write to the Admiralty
and request them to place a steamer at the disposal of the
Pope. He asked the noble lord for an explanation of the
opinion expressed by him at the commencement of the pre-
sent session, with reference to Italy, and he directed atten-
tion to a letter that appeared in a newspaper of Sunday
last, describing the harsh trintment Garibaldi's followers
were now being subjected to by the Italian Government.
They had returns which showed that 7,000 persons had
been shot by Piedmontese troops in the Neapolitan terri-
tories. It would be well for his noble friend to consider
that, when he should no longer be at the head of the
foreign office, the principles upon which he had acted
should be well known and defined. At present it was
difficult to know what to believe. The King of Sardinia
should recollect that all his acquisitions were only condi-
tional. Nothing could be done in the way of consolidating
his new possessions without the previous sanction of the
European powers.
Earl RUSSELL said that it would certainly be somewhat
difficult for him to collect what was the exact object of his
noble friend. He, however, understood that the main ob-
ject of his noble friend was to show that his (Earl Russell's)
statement—that although we had acquiesced in the mili-
tary occupation of Rome in 1849, that acqujgecence did not
imply approbation—was unfounded. But his noble friend
had diversified his arguments with many, he would not say
invectives, but severe remarks, upon their policy and upon
the policy of the Italian Government. When he (Earl
Russell) thought the Government of Italy was likely to be
an established Government, he believed it was necessary to
refute the stories that were told by the Italian and other
absolutist newspapers of Europe. But as to his noble
friend denying the consolidation of the territories recently
acquired until the King of Italy was acknowledged, the
King of Italy had been recognised by her Majesty, he had
been recognised by the Emperor of the French, he had been
recognised by the Emperor of Russia, by the King of
Prussia, and by the King of Portugal. In fact, there was
hardly a power in Europe except Austria, which of course
had her own reasons, and Spain, by whom the King of
Italy had not been recognised. Surely, then, Italy might
fairly be said to be recognised by the Powers of Europe.
Italy was now a Power with 22,000,000 of souls, supplied
with free and liberal institutions, with a regular constitu-
tion, with a Parliament in which every objection could be
made to abuses which might exist, and in which the Go-
vernment could be subjected to the freest criticism upon its
conduct. Therefore he thought it would be quite out of place
now to question the position of the Italians. (Hear.) And it
would be equally out of place to debate whether they were
right or wrong in dealing with the conspiracies in a certain
town or district, and he did not think they need trouble them-
selves with particulars or details. (Hear.) His noble friend
talked of Piedmontese occupation, and what the Pied-
montese did ; but he (Earl Russell) thought that that was
a misnomer. He believed there was not more than 40 per
cent. of Piedmontese soldiers in the Italian army. It was
truly an Italian army. (Hear, hear.) Italy had realised a
position of independence, and she had as good a right to be
treated as an independent State as any in Europe. (Hear,
hear.) With regard to an observation which his noble
friend had made as to the advice which he (Earl Russell)
had given from time to time to France respecting the Go-
vernment of the Pope, he (Earl Russell) was the victim of
a mistake, as would readily appear from the papers 3vhich
he was prepared to read. (The noble earl then read an ex-
tract from a despatch of the Marquis of Normanby, written
in 1849 from Italy to Lord Palmerston, in which the noble
marquis pointed out the danger of intervention by foreign
arms in Italy.) He (Earl Russell) thought he was follow-
ing his noble friend's opinion and advice. (Laughter.) He
thought his noble friend had laid down a canon of British
authority. But now he came down to scold him for having
been only too apt and docile a pupil in the doctrines of
rational liberty. (A laugh.) There ran through the whole
of his noble friend's allusions to that time a mistake as to
the opinions then expressed by her Majesty's Ministers.
Lord Palmerston, in a despatch to the Marquis of Nor-
manby in July, 1849, protested against foreign intervention
in Italy, and pointed out at considerable length the evils
which would follow the intervention of a foreign armed
force.
The Marquis of NORMANBY begged to remind Earl
Russell that he had only spoken to the papers which had
been laid before the house. He had no recourse to the
document which the noble earl was now reading.
Earl RUSSELL said he believed that some, if not all,
of the papers he was reading had been already laid before
Parliament, but if not, he would be happy to give copies
of them. In July, 1849, a despatch from Lord Palmer-
ston to the Marquis of Normanby pointed out the neces-
sity of a reconciliation between the Pope and his sub-
jects, and of reforms in the State, and he wished to know
What were the views of the French Government upon the
subject. His noble friend pointed out in that despatch the
1 evils which would follow from the presence of a foreign
army, and he urged that it was much to be deprecated and
greatly to be avoided. (Hear.) So that, from the very
outset, her Majesty's Government had deprecated any
armed intervention in the Roman States. (Hear.) They
wished to see a reconciliation between the Pope and his
subjects, and they thought it most unwise to have recourse
to foreign armed force to preserve the Pope at Rome. In
another despatch from Lord Palmerston, dated July 19,
1849, his noble friend said that to restore the Pope by force
of foreign arms should be only looked upon as a temporal'.
expedient. It would be a return to those evils Whish had
0..
before existed. It would excite the discontent of
thanthe eviler.
man people, and make them moreddiseo
Palmerston saw
gnrdntented
occupation would
Thus in July, 1849, his noblefrienforei
clearly the consequences which
once commenced, it would
rid of, and
produce in Rome. He SSW that,
not easily be got that it would not produce tran-
quillity noble friend saw the evils of that
gocumilipitlaont occupation, e were still 1 suffering from that state of
things the evil results of which Ins noble friend had so clearly
1
adoption, to all poli-
tical
foreseen and so sagaciously foretold. The military expedi-
tion to Rome was undertaken contrary to the wishes of the
Emperor of the French, He embarked in it unwillingly,
and he always felt that he was paying the penalty of it. The
advice
fee amnesty given
e nh the Pope
ePo t b
recommended
meo hadee grantedd
ed threethe
e t chief points.
Firstly,
prisonerswhich
h o advisedhe had
; secondly,a
the Code Napoleon; and thirdly, he recommended a Libe-
ral Administration. As a member of Parliament, setting
aside his position as a responsible Minister of the Crown,
but simply exercising his right as a member of Parliament,
he (Earl Russell) had a right to speak his opinions regard-
ing things which he considered to be inconsistent with,
liberty and national law. From his experience of thirteen
years of armed intervention of France and Rome, he con-
sidered that it was contrary to the principles of international
law ; that it was a misfortune to France no less than to
Rome ; and that it left the intentions of the Emperor of the
French liable to be misconstrued. Had any of these re-
forms taken place for which, as President of the French
Republic, he was so anxious ? The despatch of M. do Toe.queville to M. de la Cour described the condition of affairs
at Rome,after the restoration of the Pope as a return to all
the old abuses. There was wholesale destitution. A system
had been adopted of placing under suspicion all the public
functionaries, and marking for disgrace or exile all the
men who had acted under the Republican Government.
Such were the chief frets which were cited against the
Pontifical Government. With the restoration of the
Pope to Rome returned all the old abuses. Having read
all the correspondence on the subject, he must say he was
more than confirmed in the opinion which he had long en-
tertained, that the Pope's Government was based on prin-
ciples totally different from those on which every other Go-
vernment in the world was carried on. The Pope's Govern-
ment acted on the principle of :being a paternal govern-
ment, and that its subjects ought to be treated as chil-
dren ; that no doctrines were to be preached amongst
them differing from those of the Roman Catholic Church ;
and that all teaching which tended to create doubts in