The Sun.
London, England, 1863-05-06 00:00:00

Amalgamation of the City and Metropolitan
Police.

A public meeting, convened by a requisition to the Lord
Mayor, signed t y most of the leading City firn s, took place
yesterday in the Guildhall, to consider the bill of the Go-
vernment now before Parliament for amalgamating the City
and Metropolitan police. The Right Hon. the Lord
Mayor, M.P , presided, and was supported by Sir James
Duke, M.P., Mr. R. W. Crawford, M.P., Mr. Western
Wood, M.P., Mr. W. Cubitt, M.P., Prince Azeemjah, Sir
George Bowyer, M.P., Mr. J. T. Norris, M.P., Mr. R. W.
Kennard, M.F., Mr. Alderman Salomons, M.P., Mr G. H.
Whalley, M.P., Mr. James White, M.P., Baron N. M. de
Rothschild, M.P., Mr. R. Hodgson, M.P., Sir R. W.
Carden, Sir F. G. Moon, Sir John Musgrove ; Mr. Alder-
man and Sheriff Lawrence, Mr. Alderman Humphery, Mr.
Alderman Dakin, Mr. Alderman Gibbon, Mr. Alderman
Sidney, Mr. Alderman Begley, Mr. Alderman W. Laurence,
Mr. Alderman Carter, Mr. Alderman A bbiss, Mr. Alderman
Allen, Mr. Alderman Finnis, Mr. Alderman Mechi, Mr.
Alderman Gibbins, Sir W. Alexander, the Mayor of Car-
lisle ; Mr. R. Mitchell, Mr. George Walter, C.O , Mr. J•
Richardson, C.C., Mr. B. Scott, City Chamberlain, Mr. G.
Moore, Mr. Samuel Morley, Mr. James Anderton, C.C., &c.
The LORD MAYOR, in op, ning the proceedings said that,
having received a most influentially and numerously signed
requisition to call this public meeting, he had done so, in
order to give an opportunity to the citizens of expressing
their opinions upon the proposed measure for depriving
them of the right which they had enjoyed for centuries of
regulating their own affairs. (Cheers.) He ventured to
think that the opinion of that meeting, coupled as it would
be with most influential meetings all over the country
would have the effect of showing that the attempt to cen-
tralise within the Government the management of the po.
lice of the various districts would not be sanctioned. (Hear.)
His lordship then introduced to the meeting
Mr. SAMUEL MORLEY, who, in moving the first resolu-
tion, said—l am anxious to unite with my fellow-citizens
in entering a strong, earnest protest against the proceedings
of Sir George Grey with respect to his bill for amalgamat-
ing the City and Metropolitan policy. I am glad in
moving the first resolution to be able to adopt the exact
words used by Lord Palmerston himself. The resslution
is as follows :
" That municipal institutions are deserving of the highest
veneration and respect. They are founded on remote anti-
quity; they are the basis en which everything that is good
in free institutions is built up and perfected ; they give to
man the privilege of local self government ; they educate
locally the people of a country, some afterwards to take a
part in the large concerns of the nation, all to be able to
form a correct judgment of the conduct of those by whom
the national affairs are guided ; they instruct and enlighten
the mind; they practise the human intellect in all those
exercises which render it manly and energetic; and they
are therefore deserving of the highest possible veneration
and respect."
I quite understand that we do not meet to consider whether
serious mistakes were or were not made on the 7th of March;
neither do we meet to consider the question of the London
corporation, but to consider a specific proposal made by Sir
George Grey, and to which we are prepared to take very
serious exception. (Cheers.) What are the facts of the
case ? I understand there are 610 policemen in the City
of London. They are considered to be, and in that opinion
I most entirely join, sufficient for the preservation of the
peace of the City and for the protection of our property. I
can say with great truth that I never leave the City in the
evening without feeling that, so far as human foresight
can make such provision, my property is safe under the
protection of the City police. (Cheers.) And lam pre-
pared to say, whether I regard the courtesy of the men or
the efficiency of the services which they render, the City
police will compare favourably with any other body of a
'ike kind throughout the kingdom. (Cheers.) But, of
course, such a body of men was not sufficient for the spe
cial occurrence of the 7th of March. It does the heart of
an Englishman good to consider and reflect upon the mag-
nificent spectacle which the City presented on that day,
when, with feelings of devoted loyalty and affection to the
Crown, the inhabitants of this mighty city met together in
that narrow space to testify their devotion to, and to give a
hearty welcome to one who, to use the words of the Prince
of Wales, was about to take upon herself the honourable posi-
tion of an Englishwoman. (Cheers.) If there were any
errors committed on that day, they were to be attributed
as much to the West-end of London as to the City. lam
not here imputing motives, but there would seem almost a
preconceived disposition to thwart the arrangements of the
City, which were all the more subjects of anxiety in conse-
quence of the recent death of the head of the police in the
itv, Mr. Daniel Whittle Harvey. I utterly object to the
proceeding of Sir G. Grey, because I object to the transfer
to the Home-office duties which I am prepared to say we
shall better perform for ourselves. (cheers.) Let us stand
fast by our municipal institutions. (Cheers.) The true policy
of England is to le.sen rather than to increase the functions
of Government. I would call your attention to the words
of Guiznt, the distinguished French statesman, in his work
on the English constitution : " Wherever I go through
England I find these words, ' Supported by voluntary con-
tributions.' There lies in these words the true secret of
England's greatness. What they do from the centre in
France, the English people do for themselves. They are
willing to pay, but they insist on having in the r own hands
the management of their own affairs." I would also quote
the words of Kossuth, uttered in this hall, "There is no.
thing," he says, "to which you should cling with such
tenacity as to your municipal privileges, for it is to them
that nations owe their preservation during civil war and dire
political convulsions; and your own, you must remember,
are older than the present people of England." (Cheers.)
Look at the condition of continental nations. You will find
that the Governmental police is dreaded by the middle class
and hated by the people. It is because I desire to have the
police our servants, rather than our masters, that I invite
you to join with unanimity in this resolution. (Cheers.)
Mr. FOWLER seconded the resolution. He said that
those wh t resided in the City were the best able to judge
whether any alteration was required in the way in which
the City police was rnanagt d. The meeting showed
that they we-e of opinion that no alteration was re-
quired. (Cheers•) Under those circumstances it became
the duty of every one to do what in him lay to resist
the innovation suggested by the bill of the Government.
The resolution quoted the very eloquent words of the Prime
Minister in regard to the way in which local institutions
had educated the people of England for the duties which
they fulfilled in the constitutional system of the empire.
The reason, he believed, why other nations had not flourished
in the same way as England was principally owing to their
want of local self-government. (Cheers.)
The LORD MAYOR then put the resolution to the meet-
ing, and it was carried unanimously, am.d loud cheers.
Mr. KIRKMAN HODOSON, M.P., governor of the Bank
of England, then rose to mwe the second resslution. In
doing so he said : The proposal which I have to submit to
you ain a few words this. We have got a police of our
own, we manage it ourselves, we think it is ye y efficient,
and we intend to keep the management to ourselves. (Laugh •
ter and cheers.) That is my opinion, and I intend to ask
you directly whether it is yours or not. (Cheers.) I d 3 not
intend to say one ward about the 7th of March, for this
very good reason that the Home Secretary has told us in b

speech that any alteration he had proposed to make in the
City force he made without any reference to what had hap •
pened on the 7th. That being the case, we are of course
bound to believe the as. ertion made by a gentleman in his
position, and of his high honour and integrity. But if the
alteration is not on account of the 7th of March, for what
reason is there t. be an alteration ? There are three reasons
given for this alteration; first, that it is inconvenient for
us to have a police to ourselves; secondly, that it is very
expensive, and costs us a great deal of money; and thirdly
that it is not efficient. Now the first, if it could be proved,
would be of some importance; but I confess I have never
heard one argument in favour of that opinion. When I
ask any one how it is inconvenient, the reply is, "Oh.
you know very well." With reward to its cost, they say
it costs more than the Metropolitan police, and that we
pay for it all ourselves. (Laughter and chters.) Now, this
attention of our friends is exceedingly good on their
part, and we feel obliged for it; bat we would rather con-

tinue to pay the whole cost of a forea in which we have
confidence and which we manage, than pay three• fourths
f
of another, and take one•fourth from them, for a force of
which we know nothing, and over which we shoduld
reason,
no control. (Hear, hear.) With regard to theaelthtoi
do with
the great
I may say that lately I have had a great d
the police. I have had to inspect and manage
en
In the
case of forging and stealing bank-sotspa
of becoming
con-
duct of that case I have had an opportunity
familiarly acquainted with .
ll the most serious and ear-
London, and I can say to you in
have
I met with a body
nest manner that never
inermforyming the duties entrusted to
the detective oreeof the City of
so thoroughly and wellpeprsonal experience on this occasion
ce is efficient
putne
r a ml
againstthem. general
yaspseorotrions made in other parts. Well, if
there is no inconvenience—'f
i we are
lc enditure, and if the for '
will now only ask you to raise your voices
(Cheers.)ep My opinion '
—why change f is that you won't
wasillinhgavteo
bseahorwtnh,e
usly and say, Much obliged to
strentio you, gentlemen
for your kind iL tentions, but WO Would rather
'
champ it ; ao I
(Cheers.) The resolution Which the hen. n not."
initted was as follows : on. gentleman sub-
" That the police force of this City i as, if not superior to, any force i sas able and efficient
tection of life and property f n these realms for the pro-
for the regulation ,or the detection of crime, and
of the i
•timmens® traffic which
throng the streets of this
c
inexpedient to interfere
withi,ts andn that, it is unwise and
so long as its duties continue tobeetaiengement and Control
Y
ly performed."
Mr. UEORGE MOORE seconded the t
resolution, protesting
against the centralising disposition evinced by the Govern-
went in this matter, and bearing
his testimony to the
general efficiency of the City police.
Mr. CARDEN having supported the resolution, it was put
by the Lord Mayor to the meeting and carried, like the first,
by acclamation and negn. con.
Mr. KENNARD, M.P., said that, occupying the position
which he did in the City of London, and acknowledging as
he could the services he had received from the City police,
he could not be silent on such an occasion. The resolution
he had to submit was as follows :
"That the citizens of London obtained from the Sove-
reigns of this realm the right of eleoting.th9ir own magis-
trates,a and of keeping watch aud ward within the City,
right which they have ever exercised for the betnaet benefit of the
_
people and the protection of their liberties; 12
wVII
for the amalgamation of the City of London Police

the Metropolitan Police is an invrsion ef t
bubve s vt, et ;be English Con ha right,
And is
fil
sell...government which has foste:ed
the love ot trte
edow in
this country, has arawn closer the ities which connect the
people with Crown and Parliament, and under which thin
City and the nation at large have co long prospered.
That this meeting calls ul on the representatives of this
city, and also upon the representatives of the citiz,
in the Corporation, to offer, by every means in t, sir 11,6 v er,
the most determined opposition to the p,,ssing cf the t is ter
the amalgamation et' the City with the Metropolitan Pdlice ;
and that a petition from this meeting, embodying the pre-
sent resolution, be presented to the House of Commons by
one of the City representatives.'
d own
Thep here
could or
Much was said about the inefficiency of the City police, about
there,(ureear)
_ anbut
thatno oonfe
itselfgave waspart ia-
caublareras.k- naotfallh
sufficient answer. When it was shown that the City rnlice
were efficient, those who desired to amalgamate said, " Well,
but we are not going to make any change. We will adopt
your chief commies.oner, your medical officers, and all your
policemen; so why should you find fault with the alteration
only of the heads ?" That was monstrous fine, but it would
soon be found that the heads would alter very considerably,
and that the efficiency which all were now oblig,d to edmit
would very soon be lost. (Hear.) They had heard that it
was Sir G. Grey—(hisses)—who had brought in this bill.
He would read an opinion expressed by Sir G. Grey in.
the House of Commons in 1856, who, after stating that ho
did not intend to meddle in the matter of the Metropolitan
and City police, went on to say—" Harmony and co-opera-
tion have existed between the Metropolitan and the City
police,
and between the Government and the authorities of
the City of London. The utmost readiness has always been
displayed by the authorities of the City to listen to any sug-
gestions which
have been made by me, with regard to the
employment of the police, and when it has been thought
nee scary to strengthen the police force within the City by
reinforcements from the Metropolitan police, the arrange-
meats have been readily acquiesced in by the authorities of
the City, end perfect harmony has existed between the two
bodies. While I admit, then, that, in theory, it would be
far better to place the whole police force of the Metro-
politan districts under one general system of manage-
ment and control, still, as there exists within the narrow
limits of the City an important corporation, possessing
great influence and power, I think a strong case of practical
inconvenience should be established—stronger than any
which lam prepared to say has yet arisen—to induce Par,
liament to leave that corporation in a posit ion in which no
municipal corporation in the country is placed,—namely,
without any police force under its own management."
Now why should Sir Geo. Grey, without any of those oases
arising to which he had alluded, why should he hold one
language in 1856 and another in 1863 I' He had disclaimed
that it had anything to do with the 7th of March, there-
fore that could not be referred to; but it was rather a sin-
gular thing that whenever there was a talk of the City,
there always was allusion to the 7th of March. Granted
that the City did break down, how had it broken down ?
From the enthusiasm of the people—(cheers)—from the
desire to welcome the sweet lady towards whom all hearts
beat responsively. (Cheers.) Men of all parties agreed
that to corporate institutions we owed all our liberties.
Parliament itself was much younger than the corporation of
London. (Hear.) The citizens had enjoyed the right of
watch and ward for more than a thousand years, and they
boldly said to the Home Secretary that Le could not point
to a case in which there had been any practical inconve-
nience from its remaining in their hands. Ire trusted that
all present in their various spheres would, with one heart
and soul, determine that thi, iniquity to the City of Lon-
don should not be perpetrated. The cause they had to de •
fend was vastly more important than the cause of the City
of London, for if they took away the right of self-govern-
ment, of self-watch and ward, from the corporation of the
City of London, they must, of necessity, take it away from
all the boroughs throughout England. (Hear.) The bus-
tle with which the measure had been thrust forward was so
great that it had violated a standing order, and had been
thrown out upon that order, which required that a measure
interfering with a private bill should itself be introduced as
a private bill. The Government were so anxious to have a
" peck" at the City, that he did not doubt they would try
to waive that standing order ; but as it could not be waived
without the consent of Parliament, he looked to his hon-
ourable friends around him, to one and all, to assist in re-
jecting such an to tempt to filch away their liberties.
(Cheers.) The appeal which had been made t n
this subject had had some response, for he held
in his hand a long list of those boroughs and
oorporati,ns which had already spoken out; and when ho
told them that Windsor, Devonport, Exeter, Portsmouth
Southampton, Rochester, Nottingham, Oxford, Bath,
Bridgwater, Brighton, Birmingham, Beverley, Hull, Hali-
fax, Leeds, Sheffield, Edinburgh, Paisley, wee. others, had
all unanimously expressed the same opinion, enough had
been said to induce them to agree with the resolution.
(Cheers.)
Mr. Alderman and Sheriff LAWRENCE, in seconding the
resolution, said that this question ought not to be narrowed
into one of convedence or expediency with reference to the
police, for it really involved nothing more nor less than the
independence of the municipal institutions of this country,
and the zontinuanee of local self-government, with those
guards and protections without which local self-government
was a name and not a reality. (Cheers.) The hon. gentle-
man quoted from the report of the select committee of the
House of Commons, many years back, the following :
" It is difficult to reconcile an effective system of police
with that perfect freedom of action and exemption from in-
terference which are the great privileges of society in this
country. Your committee think that the forfeiture or cur-
tailment of such advantages would be too great a sacrifice
even for improvements in police and facility in the detection
of crime, however desirable in themselves if abstractedly
considered."
The late Sir Robert Peel, in introducing the measure for the
new police, said the people of this country would never tole-
rate a minister of police, and therefore, in the first measure,
the police had simply been placed under two justices of the
peace. That was the safeguard devised, that the two justices
of the peace should take action before the police could act in
any manner hostile to the liberties of the people of the coun-
try. He was sorryto say that the Legislature had not looked
so closely as they ought into subsequent measures which had
been carried, by which first one commissioner of police had
been appointed, then two assistant commissioners, and,
finally increasing their powers to such an extent that in
troubled times they could, by united action, exercise complete
control ever the liberties of the people of the country—
(hear)—in spite of the magistrates and local authorities, and
even irrespective of the control of Parliament, By subse-
quent Acts of Parliament, Sir Richard Mayne had been
made justice of the peace for no loss than seven counties,
within which he had the power to hear cases, to sentence,
and commit to trial, without any publicity whatever. He
had the power of summary conviction; he could order a
policeman to take up an individual for an alleged offence;
and if it was one which could be summarily dealt with, he
had the power to sentence such offender to a term of impri-
sonment without his being taken before any magistrate
whatever. (Cries of shame.) It was right that the citizens
of London should know what was meant by extending the
police system and absorbing the City force; for by the very
bill introduced by Sir George Grey the man who was to be
appointed assistant-commissioner in London was to be made
a justice of the peace for seven counties. (Shame.) If in
the case of a riot it should be found necessary or be thought
necessary to call in the military, Sir Richard Mayne bad
power to do so singly; and without concert with, and with.
out authority from, any other magistrate, he could autho-
risen
the military to fire upon the people. (Shame.)
district
was power to do so, when every magistrate of thevdeisbteent
was opposed to it, and when the meeting
might
haatitherity
called for constitutional purposes, under the very
of
the
of the magistrates of the district and thten
justicestuber of steps
peace for the country. (Shame.)
A vast
eation of a bad been taken in the direction of th
awns the substitution,
Minis-
ter of Police. Of such a charactero.itan
policej• for the police
two years ago, of the mreotwriopu.,
employed in the Royal
force which had been ph. 'o
kingdom. There was another
dockyard in all parts of t
It was that the Pol.
well worth consideration,
ice
matter
Commissioner had power without any fresh euthoritv
Parliament, and subject only to the sanction of the
from
Secretary, to arm with nanskols and bayonets
Home
every
in the Metropolitan for policeman
atae)---of 0
I 00
SO that ono man had the power to ere t
men.
blue ins
• tead of red coats, but possessed fae an army,in
than the people of the country had o far greater power
permitted the army to
have, If the present despotic
it would be an unfortunate thi measure was allowed to pass,
for the citizens to call to mindng for the Royal family and
the people had desired to that an occasion on wh:ch
of Wake had been tier welcome the bride of the Prince
to local institutions. turned against them to give a death blow
would thus always he arrival of the Princess Alexan-
dracitizens of
Londonwith
hbe associated in the minds of the
the loss of liberty and the curtail-
ment of freedom. (Loud
che
Mr. C ItaWF o RD, MP , e•rs,)
~ said that, as one of their repre-
sentatives, ho should take every legitimate and proper
means to prevent the passing of Sir G. Grey's bill through
Parliament. When the bill was brought in he had given
notice of his intention to move its rejection in the second
reading; and, if it survived the present difficulty with re-
gard to the standing orders, he should do so. It would be
idle for him to occupy their time in saying anything on the
demerits of a measure so ill advised, so unnecessary, and,
under recent circumstances, so ungracious. (Cheers.) He
could hardly have conceived it possible, after the City
great
yf
London had stepped forward in the way it had, and
to the a
cost of money had exhibited its loyalty to the throne,
Minister
heir apparent, and to his future bride. that any
have used it as an
should have seized that occasion,
and
their privileges. The
opportunity for seeking to abridge
had said that the events of the 7th of
Home Secretary
do with his prop()sal • but he
March had very little to
le that statement with
difficult to reconcile
ear to op-
would find it very
(Cheers.) If it was necessary
the facts of the case.
that a large number of mem-
he knew
pose the bill further,
the Government would
assist him in
heartilyreject-
sympathised with
hers supportingrto
)Rothschild, who
account of ill health.
ingit. Baron
unable to attend on
the meeting.
W 88
WOOD, M.P., followed in a speech strongly
Mr. ~ESTEBN
of • which the resolution was put and
the bill, a el
condemning
carried unanimously.
that the foregoing resolutions should be ad-
A resolution,
and evening London
timed in all the morning d b
Papers, as
ver ' the local organs, was proposed by Mr Dodd,
well as m
seconded by Mr. Mitchell. and carried unanim -
„
of „Not in the Times, ous y, amid
croon
vote of thanks to the Lord Mayor, proposed by Mr.
Norris, M.P., and seconded by Mr. James Anderton, C.O ,
was duly responded to, and the proceedings terminated,