The Sun.
London, England, 1837-01-07 00:00:00

Reform Bill—they had not asked for a reform of the House
of Lords, but they simply asked the Government to allow
any man who happened to be in their councils to give on
those great questions in the House of Commons his consci-
entious vote.—(Cheers.) Be it remembered that if Lord
Melbourne's Government shouldg• to pieces to-morrow, or
in a short time after Parliament meets—and go tct pieces
it would, if it did not answer the just demands of the
people—it would be a suicidal act, and not the act of
the party to which he (Mr. Roebuck) belonged. His
party, he repeated, only asked for justice, and if they re-
fused justice—(cries of " Why, turn them out.")—Yes,
said the Hon. and Learned Member, we will turn them out.
He was one of that class of Reformers whom he dared to
say many persons had in their eye when they talked of
those persons who wished to go too far. Now, he begged
to ask the present meeting—nay, he would inquire from his
constituents, whether they objected to that line of con-
duct on his part which demanded of the Whig Govern-
ment so very little for the people?—(Cries of " Yes, we do.")
That answer, then, convinced him that he did not go too
far. He wished, however, to have that sentiment unequi-
vocally expressed and known, for he was not one who would
pretend to be the representative of the feelings of his con-
stituents unless he did really represent their wishes and
opinions ; but he would now say, that if his constituents
would back him by thus telling him he was right, in believ-
ing that they demanded this justice at the hands of the
Whig Ministry, he would demand it in their names, and let
the Government at their peril refuse.—(Renewed and ge-
neral cheering.) But by some it might be said, that how-
ever just might be this demand, and however right and
conscientious he might be in making it, yet so desperate was
the condition of the party to which he belonged—so
wretched was their lot, that if the Whig Ministry refused to
grant the demand, that party must support them whether
they liked it or not. Such was the intent and meaning of
those who now said to them—" Mind what you are about,
or you will let in the Tories." It was just such politi-
cians as those who thus cried " Wolf!" before there was
any danger, that gave heart to the present Government to
resist and refuse the demands of the people.—(Cheers.)
Now, supposing the Whigs, who professed a desire to
render so much good to the people, were turned out of
power, what, he must ask, would the Tories do ? True it
was they might get into place, but still it was in the power
of the people to turn them out afterwards.—(Hear, hear.)
But he fancied he could hear some one whisper, " Oh, not

at all—we do not believe that the Whigs are the real friends
of the people ; they, out of place, would not, therefore,
join with us Radicals, but would make their peace with the
Tories and join them in opposition to us." In other words,
if the Radicals should demand of the Whig Government to
make open questions of all the matters which he had men-
tioned, and if, by so doing, they should destroy the Govern-
ment by their own suicidal act, that then the Whigs would
go over to the Tories, and—
Colonel BAILLIE—On the part of the Whigs, I beg to
deny the proposition.
Mr. ROEBUCK resumed—The Gallant Colonel might
deny it, if he thought proper, in any reply he might think
fit to make to his (Mr. Roebuck's) observations, but the
Gallant Member's interruption at this moment was not
very decorous.—(Hear, hear.) He trusted that no more
such interruptions would take place, and that Whiggery
and courtesy would be allowed to go hand in hand.—(Cheeps
and laughter.)
The Rev. Mr. MURCH (an Unitarian Minister).—
Surely ever freeman has a right to express his opinions.—
( Hear, and cries of " Order.")
Mr. ROEBUCK again resumed.—The people must first
determine what ought to be done if the Whig Government
granted the demand made upon them as he had described,

arid also ask themselves the consequieces if those demands
were refused. Before that important question was settled
in their minds and answered, the people ought to consider
how dangerous it was to tamper with the truth. When
he or any other independent Member of the House of Com-
mons went forth to say " Ay" or " No" to a question, he
was called upon to express a clear and distinct opinion
upon it, and the first question an honest man asked
himself was, whether or not the vote he was about
to give was really in accordance with his sentiments and
opinions ; and on this question he should ask himself
whether it really was his opinion that the Government which
denied and abhorred the just demands of the people ought
to be supported, and that he should hold his tongue
and not say what he thought of them ? In like manner
ought constituents to declare their opinions. This was no
idle matter, for it would soon be brought to the test, not
by himself or his Hon. Friends near him, but by the Go-
vernment itself.—(Hear.) The Radicals, therefore, he
repeated, would not destroy the Whig Government, but
the Whig Government would destroy themselves by the
refusal, because, if they consented to grant the simple and
honest proposition made to them, they would have the
people with them and still remain in power. They professed
to be the friends of liberty ; if so, let them make the small
and simple sacrifice to liberty which was asked at their
hands ; they boasted that they held office only for the good
of the people ; the Radicals prayed from them only a small
boon for the people. But no, the Whigs did not like
that the demands of the people should have a fair field
to fight upon ; they were averse to these important ques-
tions being fairly discussed, or that each man's weight
and opinion on both sides should be honestly and con-
scientiously given ; but, on the contrary, they, holding
from the imperfections of the Reform Act the power in their
hands, were determined to withhold the expression of the
opinions of their own friends upon questions which the
people required and demanded to have settled.—(Great
applause.) But there was also another man who would
certainly oppose him (Mr. Roebuck) in this matter, and
that man would say, not like his (Mr. Roebuck's) Hon.
and Gallant Colleague, that Earl Grey was one of the best
of the governors this country had ever seen, but that Earl
Grey was a man who made the King of England speak
" a bloody and a brutal speech."—(Cheers.) He would say
that the Radicals of England put down Earl Grey because
he brought forward a Coercion Bill for Ireland, and be
would add, that because Lord Melbourne had done what
he would be pleased to call justice to Ireland, his Lord-
ship's Government deserved support at the hands of all
England.—(Renewed cheers.) He need scarcely say
that the man to whom he alluded was Mr. O'Con-
nell, of whom he could never speak but with respect
—(Hear, hear)—he believed him to have lived a long
life of usefulness to his country—to have achieved by
his ability, and he would add his courage, that which
no other man could have accomplished ; and there-
fore, if he (Mr. Roebuck) should express opinions not
gratifying to Mr. O'Connell, it was contrary to his feelings
towards that gentleman. His judgment, however, com-
pelled him to do so. He knew well that Mr. O'Connell
would say that the Administration of Lord Melbourne
were doing justice to Ireland. He (Mr. Roebuck) denied
it.-4 Hear, hear.) He contended that justice to Ireland
did not consist in giving places both of honour and profit
to one section of the Irish gentry.—(Cheers.) The sum
and substance of the good done to Ireland by the present
Government consisted in fair promises and some good ap-
pointments.—(Cheers and laughter.) But no law had
been yet passed in favour of Ireland—(Hear)—and, so far
as the existing law was concerned, to-morrow might see the
whole state and face of that country changed, and the enor-
mous evils which formerly existed again perpetrated.--
(Cheers.) Now, he and the Radicals contended that no
Government would do justice to Ireland that would not
give the Commons House of Parliament the power of en-
forcing by increased majorities its sentiments. There should
be such a majority as to make it dangerous for the other
House to refuse to accede to the wishes of the people as
expressed by that majority. Governments might go on to
the end of the world, but no permanent good would be ef-
fected either for England or for Ireland, unless the House
of Commons was strengthened by the introduction of the real
Representatives of the people. For this purpose the Ra-
dicals claimed the help of the Whig Government to ac-
complish this object ; if they refused, the friends of Ireland
must pursue a course by which the Whig Government
would fall to pieces.—(Hear, hear.) No person could en-
tertain a worse opinion than he did of the Irish Church
Establishment—an establishment so rotten and corrupt as
to render pestilential the very atmosphere around it.—
(Hear, hear.) He saw the members of that Chnrch cling-
ing with gloomy tenacity to all its corruptions—holding on
to its fabric fearlessly, and utterly careless of all the dread-
ful consequences which threatened them, merely for the
sake of pecuniary gain. It was true they were backed by
the aristocracy of England and the aristocracy and the
Orangemen of Ireland, and what was to put down this un-
holy compact, this unholy alliance, but the Commons of
.England, fighting as well for justice to Ireland as for justice
to England ?—(Cheers.) The fact was, gloss it over as it
might be, that a dangerous crisis had now arrived. If the
Whigs were so wicked as to drive the Radicals to it, the
latter would have only one of two things to do—either
to give up their own honest convictions and cease to be the
representatives of the people, or they must compel the
Whigs to do justice to both countries.—(Cheers.) Let
those he now addressed weigh well the result of the
consequences of this conduct of the Whigs, and let them
remember that the Whigs had themselves driven the
Radicals to these alternatives.—(Cheers.) Thus had he
been put upon his trial, and such was his defence. He
hoped and trusted, that so long as he should be one of
thee cheeringrepresetatives of the people, he should receive the
samand, if so,
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amd talh.s had greeted him that evening ;
e
assembly present, that all the
given him—all the strength which
thould ever be exerted in their
service. The Hon. Member
ge-
neral and very long-continuedes plaudits,
his seat amidst
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soon as the applause bad subsided,i and
empowered
said, that by the
permission of the Chairman, he was