The Sun.
London, England, 1839-07-23 00:00:00

Bill to offer a few observations to their Lordships, stating
the reasons of the course he was about to pursue,
and he thought it better to do this before the Noble Ear

objected to the second reading of the Bill, and before they
discussed the principle of the measure. Others of their
Lordships did not intend to object to the second reading,
liut reserved themselves for the Committee to object to the
details—but these were not the grounds of his objections.
If the Bill were ever so unexceptionable in its princip
and ever so clear in its details, still he should object to it,
siacply because this was the 22d of July, and they had been
sitting there for six months and done nothing. He had
made a similar complaint two or three years ago, but now
the evil had become so pressing, and was like all other
evils, so much on the increase, that Parliament was reduced
to the necessity at length of being obliged to apply a re-
medy to this great and rapidly increasing evil. The
House had not sat for ten nights during the Session
as late as ten o'clock, and the legislatorial functions had
been all that time in abeyance—in fact they had done
nothing but pass the time away until the other House of
Parliament should send them up measures. The conse-
quence was, that it was utterly impossible they could get
through the business that was before them. Let them
consider the number of measures which stood upon the
paper for consideration this day. (The Noble Lord here
read the list of Orders of the Day for this evening.) Why
it was impossible that all these measures could be discussed
in any one day, unless they could make the sun stand still.
But he was told some of these measures would be put off;
he knew they must be all put off, if it was intended to discuss
any one of them in they way it ought to be discussed. This
Municipal Bill contained 256 clauses—it was a volume—
and of these 124 clauses were partially new, and 50 were
absolutely so, so that this could not be considered as the
Bill that had been again and again before them.
There were more pages in this Bill than in the
whole of the Statute Book during the first thirty-
eight years of the reign of Queen Elizabeth. Was
it tit to call upon the House of Lords to discuss these
things at such a late period of the Session ? The Bill had
been only printed on Saturday, and only been delivered to
their Lordships that morning, so that they had not had the
opportunity of reading it yesterday and breaking the Sabbath
had they been so inclined, which he did not imagine many
of their Lordships would, however, have done. Was this
a proper method of treating a subject which was likely to
give rise to the greatest controversy ? This was a subject
which had attracted attention for three years past, and
which had been mentioned in the speech from the Throne,
and which therefore ought to have been brought forward
early in the Session. His Noble Friend said this measure
had been introduced into the other House in February. What
could they have been doing elsewhere if they had not sent
up before the end of the Session a measure which had been
recommended in the speech from the Throne? They
must have been employed in concocting most important
measures, and what made this of still great importance
to the question he was discussing, all these measures would
have to be sent up to their Lordships—in fact measures
were now, and would be for the next ten days, constantly
sent up to their Lordships from the other House of
Parliament. Was this right? Was this expedient?
Could this be called Legislation? Was this Legislation
by two Chambers of Parliament or by one only ? He
knew it had been said that the House of Lords was a
nuisance and ought to be abolished. Although he fre-
quently differed from their Lordships, and took occasion to
blame their conduct, yet he had never said any thing of
them behind their backs half so severe as he had said,
and he hoped respectfully, in their presence. He did
not agree in this opinion, he did not agree with a certain
supporter of her Majesty's Government, who had given
notice three years ago of a motion for reforming the
House of Peers, which he had determined not to delay be-
yond a fortnight, and which had not yet been brought for-
ward, although he had in vain attempted to set on foot an
agitation on the subject. Although he considered all such
ideas as most absurd and most chimerical, yet it was still
more absurd and still more chimerical to send up Bills in this
manner, without giving their Lorships an opportunity of pro-
perly discussing the subject. It was physicallyimpossible for
their Lordships to discuss the mass of Bills at present on
the table. Did these Bills come up in such a perfect
state from the other House as to require no revision ?
Quite the contrary ' • they came up in such a state that even
if the authors bare for them all that affection, which, by a
wise provision of nature parents bore to the most misshapen
and deformed offspring, even they could not be so fond of
their miserable abortions as to contend that they stood in no
need of their Lordships' revision. He recollected an in-
stance in which two Bills had come up from the Commons,
in which the preamble and first clauses of the one had
been applied to the other, and vice versa, and a third Bill
was obliged to be brought in to remedy this defect.—( A
laugh.) Another Bill had come up while he was in office,
one of the clauses of which would have the effect of sus-
pending the administration of justice at quarter sessions,
after the Ist October, the next ensuing. He had struck
out the clause, and although the 13111 contained some pro-
visions of the utmost importance, and although it
was not a money Bill, yet the Commons in
consequence of so doing, rejected the Bill, and it did
not become law until about a year ago. No legislature
could sit year after year to Christmas, and however long
the Session might continue, it would practically be at an
end in a fortnight or three weeks by the great part of those
engaged in it leaving town, as it was impossible that they
could continue their labours in this way. Let them look
to the list for to-morrow. (The Noble and Learned Lord
here read the Orders of the Day for to-morrow.) The
other House had not stopped legislating even now. The
day after he, at the request of his Noble Friend, had post.
polled his Education Bill on account of the lateness of the
Session, the President of the Board of Trade had intro-

duced a measure of a perfectly new character on the sub-
ject of inland warehousing, a measure likely to give rise to
much discussion, as he (Lord Brougham) had already
received two deputations of merchants on the subject
He was told there was one great measure yet to be brought
in, which was not even yet brought into the House of
Comeions—a Constabulary Bill fur the whole kingdom :
but he sincerely hoped that, at this season of the year,
they would not, unless it were absolutely necessary, be
driven into the discussion of a measure of such extensive
importance as that.—( Hear, hear.) This evil had been
going on for a long time, and three years ago he had cons.
plained of it, when all felt the force of his complaint. There
was but one remedy for it, and that was, tont take such steps
as would compel the other House of Parliaioes to send up
their Bills eat tier, and with more speed. Thie Bill might
have bete, brought into their Lordships' linus iin the first
instance. The General Constabulary Bill, of there was
to be such a Bill, might have been introducd into that
House of Lords ; and until they took the remedy into the
awn hands they would always be treated in this way. The
evil was increasing, end was worse now than ever it had
been. Treat their Lordships' House as a House that did
not exist ; call it the registry for the proceedings of the
House of Commons ; say that measures without their
Lordships' amendments, or their Lordships' considera-
tions would be safe and good measures for the country ;
and all that he could understand : but to treat the House as
a deliberative body, and to throw so many Bills on their ta-
ble as the House of Commons wasnow doing, and asking for
their Lordships' assent to them without allowing them even
time to read them, was a mockery and an insult to the
understanding —CHear, hear.) The remedy he should
propose was this, that if Bills came up from the House of
Commons at this season of the year, be they good, bad,
or indifferent, he would call upon their Lordships, merely
because they came up so late and without entering into
their merits at all, unless it could be shown they could not
have been brought up earlier, to reject those measures
without ceremony for that Session..—( Cheers.) If their
Lordships would only consent to do that, he would under-
take to say that next Session the proper Bills would be
brought up at proper times and a convenient sea-
son. He should for one, therefore, on this ground,
vote against the second reading of this Bill, giving
notice that upon the same ground he should vote against
many other Bills yet to be brought before them—( Cheers)
—and if their Lordships would follow his course, be was
sure that that would be a course which would restore to
them their capacity to exercise their deliberative and le-
gislative functions.
Lord MELBOURNE rose to move the second reading
of the Bill for the regulation of Municipal Corporations in
Ireland. The observations of his Noble and Learned
Friend applied to a state of things which was not novel—
a state of things which it was not very easy to ex-
plain the reason of, but which he understood to exist in all
parts of the world, namely, that the real practical
measures of the session accumulated and were brought
together towards the end of the session. There were
many Bills which, though they might be introduced into
tim;e- Lordchipa' House, it would not be very convenient
politic, or expedient, that they should be so introduced.
His Noble and Learned Friend himself had dwelt on the
advantage of great majorities in the other House of Par-
liament. He (the Noble Viscount) did not quite agree
with him in all he had said on that subject, but it must be
allowed that a Bill which came up to their Lordships with
the authority of the House of Commons, had a better
chance of success than many that might be originated in
that House. If his Noble and Learned Friend
had not intended to add to the evil of the delay of which he
had complained ho would not have made the speech which
be had made on this occasion. But he must say that their
Lordships generally applied the remedy which his Noble
and Learned Friend recommended, namely, that of reject-
lag measures as much as was practicable towards the end
of a Session. But the observations of his Noble and
Learned Friend applied less to this Bill than to any that
either was, or was likely to be before their Lordships.
Their Lordships would recollect that the main features and
prirciple of this Bill had been considered for three suc-
cessive sessions and agreed to by their Lordships. It had
very little new in it. The bulk of it was occasioned
principally by their Lordships' own amendments; and but
for the Noble Earl opposite (Roden) having given notice
of his intention to take the sense of the House upon it, he
should scarcely have deemed it necessary to have occupied
any time in recommending it. The Corporations required
revision, as they did not suit the wants of the different clas-
ses of the people. This he had thought had been almost
universally admitted—admitted even by the Corporations
themselves ; and with the exception of the Corporations of
Dublin, he did not think there had been any demonstration
against this Bill. As to the provisions of the
Bill, the main point of difference between their
Lordships and the House of Commons was the qualification
clause. The Commons had sent it up with a 51. fran-
chise, their Lordships had returned it with 10/. franchise,
they had now sent it up with an Si. franchise for three years.
After the expiration of that three years it was to be the
possession of a rated tenement within the borough. Their
Lordships had pointed out the boundaries, to which the
Commons had agreed with three exceptions, namely,
those of Limerick, Dublin, and Belfast. Their Lord-
ships had placed the nomination in the Crown; from
that the Commons had differed, and sent it up again with
their original proposition. Upon the whole, he hoped
their Lordships would be prepared favourably to consider
the Bill, and to allow it to be carried, which he considered
would ultimately settle a question highly beneficial to the
country.
Lord BROUG HAM should not take his objection as
to time as to this Bill, but he should do it as to others.
Lord RODEN had always considered the principle of
this Bill as fraught with the greatest evil to that part of the
country to whiclrhe belonged, and nothing but an impera-