The Sun.
London, England, 1839-07-27 00:00:00

_EVEN
_ING EtWrlaNit,_

which has been submitted to your Lordships. In treating of sist the Government by some legal means in addition to the
the conduct of the Goverment, my Noble and Learned Friend military force. That was the real difference between Ireland i
has pursued exactly the same course as was taken last night by and Canada. In Ireland the Queen's authority was obeyed,
the Noble and Learned Lord opposite ; going over from ,the -,( Hoar, hear.) He wished he could say that there laws
commencement of the Session the course which the Govern- were peifectly obeyed, bit upon the whole the laws and the
ment had pursued, stating the dates and the periods at which Queen's authority were so far obeyed as that their Lord-
the measure had been first opened to Parliament, and carried ships could make laws for the government of Ireland but they .
forward, inferring from all these circumstances great blame to could not do so with reference to Canada, because the provinces
the Goverment, charging it with supineness and neglect of had not yet been brought under the Queen's authority. The
duty, abdication of its functions, and all those terms which reason Why her Majesty's Government had not yet established
the eloquence of my Noble and Learned Friend enables the Queen's authority in the provinces he had so often repeated
him readily to supply. But, my Lords, I beg to say, that he was almost ashamed to take up the time of adverting to
that this is not a fair: way of stating the question : it again. .He would say they had never set about their opera-
it
'is possible to give a startling account of the tions in reference to that country in a way to establish the
course of proceeding on a measure—it is possible to point out Queen's authority if they really intended—Cheers)—to carry
the length of time which has elapsed—and hence to draw in- their intentions into execution. They did not declare their. inter-
ferences unfavourable to those who have the guidance of the tion in the first instance—they did not advise her Majesty to
measure, but that makes it necessary that there should be declare her intention to maintain her sovereignty and authority
a statement on the other side of the whole course within the provinces.—(Cheers.) They had attempted to
of the Session; that there should be a statement of the carry on their operations there with a reduced peace establish-
causes of the delays which had intervened, or of the post- ment. The consequence of that was that neither neighbouring
ponement which had occurred ; and that it is not therefore powers, nor the world at large ever believed that her Majesty's
a fair and conclusive statement to enter merely on the Ministers ever were in earnest in the measures they were pro-
delays which had occurred between the steps of the mea- posing, or that they ever could obtain the objects they pro-
cure, and thence to deduce all those] charges of supineness fessed to have in view. The result was, that never, after two cam- 1
and other errors and faults which have been so liberally and paigns, after nearly two years' warfare, they were precisely in the
avishly heaped on the Government by my Noble and Learned same situation in which they were when they commenced.
Friend, upon this as upon former occasions.—( Hear, hear.) There was a sort of petty warfare carried on along the whole
My Noble and Learned Friend has thrown away a great deal of the frontiers between the United States and her Majesty's
of indignation and violence, and warmth, in proving that dominions ; and there was not one of her Majesty's subjects
which has not been, which is not, which cannot along that whole line but who were in a constant state of alarm;
be denied—which is clear upon the face of the pro- and the war was proceeding now exactly in the same state in
ceedings, which is perfectly known, admitted, and ob- which it was when it commenced in September, 1837.
viou3—that it was the intention of the Government at the be- When the proper time arrived they would hear of the same
ginning of the Session—that they considered it in the highest scenes as those which occurred last year, and they would cooti-
degree advisable, and desirable, to proceed to legislation on the nue to recur until this country took decided steps to maintain
subject of Canada as soon as possible—and that circumstances and settle her Majesty's dominion in those provinces. He had
have since arisen, that information has since been received, said frequently, and he then repeated, that it was impossible for
which afforded, what we thought, unquestionable ground for this country to carry on a war in Asia and another in America,
,:hanging our determination. Why, my Lords, that is per- and make demonstrations in other parts of the world upon a re-
fectly clear, and admitted. It was stated, by me, in this diced establishment—the consequence, was that *hey starved
House, and by my Noble Friend in the other House, at the their wars and were unable to maintain peace at home.—( Hear,
very commencement of the Session, that it was our anxious hear.) Their army was now 10,000 men under its proper num-
wish and desire to introduce a measure on the subject before bers even for the home service, in consequence of the attempt
Easter—that we might have a greater certainty of its passing that was now made to carry on two wars upon a peace establish:
into a law before the close of the Session. And I entirely agree ment. They were doing the same with the navy—it was reduceo
with my Noble and Learned Friend that it was the duty far below its proper level. Even in the course of last winter this
of Government to make the cessation of the Constitution country had received an insnit which had never been put up with by
of Canada as brief as possible—that it was the duty any other nation in former times,and it was given on the frontier
of Government to brine that cessation to a close of one of these provinces of Canada—indeed the authority of her
as speedily as possible, and° to establish that form of repre- Majesty was not recognised in a province which he believed
sentative and constitutional Government, without which, I was now under the authority of the State of Maine. He would
admit, considering the circumstances of the country, it is venture to predict that the same attempt would again be Made,
hopeless that we shall ever establish peace, tranquillity, and and there was not force enough in the province to resist it, or
happiness and prosperity, and attachment to the mother coun- support her Majesty's authority, for all the troops were ern-
try. But, my Lords, we must take care that we do this ployed in Canada, and these were not sufficient to give protec-
wisely—that we do it correctly—that we do it with some tion to her Majesty's subjects. The Government of the Queen
respect for the feelings of the people—that we take advantage of was despised. Her authority no longer existed ; and it was ina
the information and intelligence which we receive from the possible for them to undertake any settlement of the affairs of
colony—that we must not, in our pursuit of that which I Canada, until they had established the authority of her Ma-
admit to be desirable—namely, the speedy settlement of the jesty's Government by force within the provinces. He would
question--sacrifice matters of yet greater weight and neces- certainly vote for the committal of the Bill, for he thought soma
city, namely, the expectation, the chance, that this settlement, such was necessary. 4 The Noble and Learned Lord said he
when it is come to, should be satisfactory and concliesive.— would propose some amendments ; when they were of"
(Hear, hear.) Why, my Lords, my Noble and Learned Friend fered it would be time for their Lordships to consider them,
sayi—" What ! put a stop to your legislation because the but he would recommend them not to make any
Assembly of Upper Canada do not approve of your plan— alterations in the Bill, unless they thought it absolutely neces-
you, who in the other measure you introduced set at nought sary, but leave all the responsibility upon the Government.
the feelings of the people of Lower Canada ?" My Lords, I Once more he would tell their Lordships, that until they set
deny that we did set at nought all the people of Lower Canada. themselves seriously to establish the authority of the Crown in
(Hear, hear.) We acted in unison with the feelings of the Canada, all they were doing was thrown away—they were only
great portion of the population—with the feelings of that or tormenting themselves and the country for no use whatever.
tion, particularly, who have been loyal, and attached to this They must send up a fleet 'and an army in sufficient strength
country.—( Cheers.) And those whose feelings and opinions to support her Majesty's authority, before they did anything else-
we set at nought were those who have rebelled against this He was perfectly aware that there was a vast body of militia--
country.—( Hear
of volunteers—whose zeal could not be sufficiently applauded--
attention to the feelings of the people of Upper Canada, for it (Cheers)—for coming forward in her Majesty's service so
is not only the Assembly—they are the index of the feeling promptly for the suppression of rebellion. It would never el°t
of the greater portion of the population. Is it a strong reason for the mother-country to abandon such men.—( Cheers. ) I
for condemning our conduct, that we paid attention to the would be disgraceful to them to leave such men W
loyal and 'attached population of Upper Canada, when my their fate—it was the duty of this country to wake
Noble and Learned Friend would have us pay respect to the every effort in their power to establish and maintain peace
disobedient and rebellious population of Lower Canada ? amongst them—it was our duty to establish in that countr!
(Hear, hear.) My Lords, it were much to be desired, cer- peace and order—euch a system of Government as would effort:
tainly, that we could legislate fully on the subject in the present them tranquility, peace, and happiness for the future. That
Session. But we had better delay than legislate unadvisedly, was wanted in those provinces.
than legislate precipitately, than legislate rashly, and in a The Earl of DURHAM said he had delayed his obserT
manner which would be ultimately unsatisfactory, and would tions to the latest moment in order to hear what other Nob!°
not produce a termination of those calamities which have Lords had to say, and more especially was he anxious to hear
afflicted the colony.—( Hear, hear.) My Noble and Learned what such high authority as the Noble Duke had to say upon the
subject, and he thought in fairness he was entitled to take suet '1
Friend says the disapprobation of a Colonial Assembly is a
strange reason for arresting the progress of Imperial legislation. course upon that question. He most cordially cone lured inivt„!
My Lords, Ido not see that al. It does not appear to me
praise bestowed on the loyal volunteers of Canada la tbej'ia
that a discovery that the plan on which we are about to pro- ble Duke. From the position in which he had been iilloeu -
ceed was not likely to produce the effects we desired. It does had occasion to know what was due to them from this e,
old
not appear to me that this is a bad reason for arresting our and he cordially agreed with the Noble D uke that it wozild,;;
legislation—that, on the contrary, it is an imperious reason for most ungrateful in this country to adandon them. The rine'
taking further time to consider the subject.—( Hear, hear.) Duke, from belonging himself to the army, had been delica!f:
My Lords, my Noble and Learned Friend stated distinctly and had not alluded to a body to which the country was
the difficulties in which we were placed ;as to re- deep obligations—he alluded to his Gallant Successor, Sir'
Colborne, and the British army. Their seryices had been
of
storing the Assembly of Lower Canada, he saw the
absurdity of that when he was apparently recommending it ; glorious in the cause, and they were actuated by a sP,t,:,
the manner in which he urged that part of his speech suffi- humanity which did not always belong to such a service as yfli,
ciently showed that he merely recommended it in consistency were called upon, and in bearing testimony to tovri
eminent services he did not think he rendered liiinslii
with his principles, but that he did not place upon it any re-
liance. Well then, to establish a representative Government, I obnoxious to the charge of wishing to perpetuate tyrannY 's
do not see how it is to be done except by a union of the provinces—it was always to be remembered that the se
rovinces. But when you come to the question, ciset
the two pof desolation were not caused by the acts of this country,'-'4of
every body feels the difficulties of such a measure. were the result of the acts of the House of Assembly, 0
I say, when you find a great difficulty in respect to the only Lower Canada. He would be sorry to see the coercive cyst h°
continued- any longer than was absolutely necessary; bit_to;ll',
plan that appears reasonable, the only prudent and rational
course is to take more time, to consider by what means you can would act a very unmanly part indeed, if he ehr_ei,
from saying th t the powers proposed to be
reconcile those countries to the measure you propose to adopt ;
by the Bill were necessary. He had felt it to be 'his' duty
gi v
sato
and I say, that so far
place, our having incurred any blame by the
ask for the power of levying rates—first of all for the Porta
delay that has taken we should have acted most rashly and
of forming some species of preventive police. When he arrlit3:
most imprudently, if we had done otherwise ; and, in my opi- in Quebec he was met by every species of indecency and wor
nion, it is most fortunate we did not in the beginning of the The inhabitants themselves were ready to provide the means _
Session hurry this measure on, and so bring it to a settlement,
• supporting a police, but there was no power in the Govern
which would probably only have been the beginning of new dis-
contents and troubles. My Noble and Learned Friend ex- or Council to
d make a law, and he considered the Govern-
ment weredoing nothing more than their duty in prod_n_craing
a.
haunted himself in a great deal of that power of observatiorgpr
such a law. There was an absolute necessity for some
and
which he is so remarkable, upon the speech of my NOlsle
nent laws. There was now no Jury Law in Canada, Mao a '',"
Friend who proposed this motion, as if my Noble Friend
had said You are to look to the lapse of time, to the influx ri‘)iierotruesalduty wasseminary, thadwnmuuprln the
property—the Governor. . Aeigaelim
no
so.of t ,He-
didn t • there was'
think
aof capital into the country, the spread of religion,
efforts of education and so on ; but my Noble Friend meant
the .
law a anxious ons
allowing t i=i
himak e
tl
oe a s
de
os
nothing of the kind, nor were his observations liable to the his gallant successor, Sir John Colborne, in his
animadversions that were cast upon them. He only meant Council would improperly use the powers to be given them by
what I also mean, that from the state of opinion that 'appeared the Bill. -He had been much blamed, and unjustly blamed, let
to prevail in the country, the information we received of it, his conduct upon that question--it was said that he ought to
the feeling which there existed, the difficulties that were in the have brought repeatedly before the House the question of Ca
way of our legislation, and the general difficulties inherent in
radian grievances. He had reported upon every subject eon':
the subject, we were not prepared to legislate at the com-
mencement of the Session, and that we thought notwithstand- anfeteetedtrieitth tihteir grievances to the amount of 12, and he thought
was the duty of the Colony to step forward'
ing all the disadvantages of delay, it was the more prudent He after that
that some such measure was necessary for the saw'
course not to precipitate the measure for the present ; and it vation of the two provinces ; but the House ought not to pre'
was upon that, nor was it at all connected with any domestic • •
cipitate it. They ought first to collect the feelings of the inniee
affairs, nor with any internal affairs, such as my Noble and
bitants, and gain their consent, ifpossible. Parliament should
~
Learned Friend has thought fit to advert to, 'that this change •
give the province of Upper Canada an opportunity of stating
of opinion was adopted. Your Lordships will perhaps notof the'
their opinion. And they had yet to learn the sentiments
give me credit for my asseveration, if I were to make it, andthatn
therefore, I shall not give myself the trouble to state that which British Parliament as well as of the French settlers in Lower
you probably might not believe, but my Noble Friend is totally Session Canada.
andHe trusted the interval between the close. of alias
the openinf the next would be sent in collet'
mistaken in attributing the change of determination to the • n long. the ecessary. information.
. He had now but
. to refer.te.
causes to which he has thought proper to impute it. Ido not ne-isolated topic in his report, but that was an important one'
at all feel myself pressed by the arguments or the invectives of That Cow
hat was a recommendation that the Colony should be )
my Noble and Learned Friend. I do feel that the Govern- trolled by a responsible Government —( Hear hear, hear.°
ment has acted with perfect prudence, and if it had acted His Noble Friend and he had perfectly au' eed hat fi,-
otherwise than it has done, it would have acted rashly and int- Government could be satisfactory without being according t,,
prudently. My Noble and Learned Friend does not the feelings and wishes of the people. Perhaps his scheme
mean to oppose going into a Committee upon this Bill, with reference to the interference of the Ministers with tit!:
House of Assembly of Upper Canada was not right ; but b"
t we
he n made
gave
tah colonial
power
but he expresses a great deal of indignation at the second
aesartshelirs,est,haa
clause, which makes the law enacted by the Council • . l
asprinwceipweerwe
permanent, instead of having a termination as it had by the
the Government, arresting taxation, voting money, and titer
former Bill. In the first place, Ido not admit that it is the tndif
principle of this House, or the principle of the law, that laws
which may be passed for temporary purposes—even arbitrary ping the supplies, a feeling of content could not possibly be es"
or constitutional laws--should necessarily fall of themselves. pected.--( Hear, hear.) As in Lower Canada, differences
The reason of this provision has been clearly stated. by my without end would continue. Those differences would lead 07,
Noble Friend, who told your Lordships that the lapse of the' positive insurrection, and the country would be a 50 r" - e
laws had been one of the greatest evils of Lower Canada, vexation and loss instead of honour and prosperity to the paren
and that in order to give confidence and security for the loan State. If they could not then form a Government according
State
ttehwasartfirnea;
of money, they should be permanent ; and my Noble and to the feeling of the majority of the House of Assembly' he
appealed to their Lordships whether it would not be hette.f.
Learned Friend admits to a certain degree the necessity of
that. But then he says you should H
as make it so general. at once to end the connection, and let them govern theraselvo..
He says that the laws that may benasse by this Council He thought it easy to form a Government that should be
~
may be of an arbitrary nature, and then he tries to alarm your source of honour and prosperity, instead of dishonour and
and
lit°o
Lordships by the measures they may pass. He says they may England. He wished to see the present system altered, an7ore
pass a measure for annual Parliaments—they may adopt the Vote was sure th at in the measure proposed by their LordshiPst
.!
~,,,
by Ballot. I will touch you in the " raw" there.—( Laughter.) was no evil disposition. If they were wrong, he was sure it ,
from the experience of the wretchednesshe had seen in that conntarY;
I don't think my Noble and Learned Friend compliments your especially amongst the emigrants who were now unprotectet!.
_.:"'of
Lordships. He does not bear any great testimony to the firm- knew the hostile feeling which existed against him in the 11:01°,7;ng
ness and erectness of your characters in that respect in his sonic of the Noble Lords opposite, and he was anxious that tsis''..„_
effort to exercise these superstitious terrors over you ; but lam of a party nature should be mixed up in this important disco 111--,,
sure you will not suffer yourselves to be led away by a consi- Therefore he desired to keep away any additional obstacle by 171
deration of any such matters. I do think it would be coming forward himself, but he had supplied to their Lordships o,
difficult to suppose that any Governor sent out with a Council the information he could. Nor should he have come forward It
of twenty would pass such laws as might be calculated to spread night if it would not seem as if he were neglecting his dutY. .
anarchy and danger throughout the country. Besides, any was necessary that an intermediate power should be vested
lid
in '
laws they passed your Lordships must have thirty days to con- Governor and Council, but he trusted Ministers, 11a_...
cider them; and if they did ass such laws as might be objet- collected all the information they could, would next Session r—
tionable or unconstitutional, could your Lordships not repeal pose a measure calculated to satisfy the people of Canada, 1
and P.
Bound to the honour and prosperity of England.—(Hear, "3,:b",
them? Why, it has been considered rather an offensive term
lately, but I think I can, without offence to my Noble and Earl GOSFORD said if taxation were absolutely necessary, a
Learned Friend, on this occasion, say that he generally
not give uncontrolled power to the G -
deals in exaggeration, but at this time he has gone the plan of the Council or ernor.General ? He was sulib
would spread alarm and distress tpl'
butthe country.
heshouid He
po wouldse vote for the Bill
detail.going into Con:it:g;
beyond everything it is possible to conceive in the way of vain
fear, and of conjuring up imaginary evils. The power that isthe taxation clauses in He hoped (
proposed to be given by this Bill is admitted to he necessary by House would beor'
at last persuaded that their legislation wouitio,
le.
toy Noble and Learned Friend, and I beg to submit to your no effectual benefit until hey proceeded upon the principle :.
Lordships that the reasons he has urged against it are, in, point cognising no distinction between the French and English ra to.
of fact, so much exaggerated, as only to be regarded as being l'he Duke of WELLINGTON and Earl FITZ WILLIAM
entirely without foundation. Now as to the observations with spectively replied.
which he has closed his speech, that we receive his argumentsnicer,
witch The Duke-of WELLINGTON explained. He had not
with great approbation when they relate to Ireland, but that we ev
this subject during the Session, because he was desirous that ~e
do not receive them with the same approbation when they re- do, with th
late to Canada. Ido not admit the justice of the remark, but ,thing on this subject should originate where it ought to
Government.. it
I admit the justice of the principle. I say that in both coun- The Marquis of NORMANBY replied. He could not adif„,
tries difficulties arise from the nature of the population we have that the people had been driven into this' rebellion, by "Y1'...--1
to deal with. If he will recollect he will call to mind that Ido but the conduct of the instigatots of it; and more unprovoltel
rebellion he believed had never existed. He hada
heard with g..11,._ deal with Canada as I should deal with Ireland. lie must recollect
that the population of Ireland have been always loyal—(Haar, pleasure the statement of. his Noble Friend behind (Lord uto,
from Lord Lyndhurst and others on the Opposition benches)— ham), which was as creditable to himself, as it would be '3
yes, I say that the population of Ireland have been always and factory to the interests he had at heart. He had given ;-
are loyal subjects.—( Renewed cheering from both sides. )—I role'
complete justification of the course the Government had puns the
know very well that the Noble and Learned Lord opposite is of
and of abandoning their :,,
this occasion, for he cc.ncurred with the Government in at
a different opinion. I consider her Majesty's Roman Catholic onable recommendations th •
subjects in Ireland attached to her Majesty. The Noble and aodfeh
taoy
litn4mci ootniesnitdheer ed. u
bajlel
et: the
Learned Lord I know considers them as aliens in blood— expediency
habeenm
ginal intention of egsisoe, g
bpermanently for Canada this Se.siuf.,,,.
(Much cheering)—and as aliens in religion.—( Renewed cheer- He (the Marquis of roan y) was anxious to bear his testis
ing.) I know very well that that is his view of them. That to the admirable conduct not only of the army, brit f the militia • kto
unfortunately makes an irreconcilable difference between us both provinces. Nothing could t""
which we cannot overcome, and that unquestionably ac- the exertions they had made be more creditable
node'
The Noble Lord had "mint
counts for the different manner in which the Noble and to the amount of force .'
in Canada, but no coOP , 031
Learned Lord and myself view these subjects. I say that the had been made of the insufficiency and
of force there,
...,,1„,.0.-
difference between Canada and Ireland is that Ireland has been he could state was, that it was the determination of the G;0,201
loyal and that Canada has been unfortunately rebellious, and ment to vindicate the .
Queen's authority, and assist the supr
that she perseveres in her rebellion.—(Cheers.) of this country in all its provinces.-
The Duke of WELLINGTON did not think it necessary to tbe
LORD
follow the Noble Viscount in his observations upon the Noble The CHANCELLOR having put the questions! oi
o ion
and Learned Lord's speech behind him on the Irish Municipal motion for going into Committee was weed to; and the, At
• sea
Corporation Bill. He had never felt surprised in the smallest .Shaftesbury (Chairman of the Committee) had taken his ma)
degree upon the subject of the delays of the Canadian question. the table, when Augustus Clifford (the Usher of the R15C1t.,,,, oof
When he talked of the Canadian question, he meant a measure appeared at the Bar, and announced a message from the 11°I'i
for the settlement of Canada announced from the Throne—of Commons. Dad'
course recommended by the Noble Lords opposite—afterwards The Marquis of LANSDOWNE then propoied that their
_A,
recommended by a Message from the Queen to the Houses ships should resume, in order that the message might be rem
spa
of Parliament, and then proposed by a Bill in the other Lord BROUGHAM objected to the House resuming'. /1004
House.—( Hear, hear.) Ile had never felt more sur- Bill go through Committee, and the message from the Colo
prise in the whole course of his life than he did on could be received afterwards.
hearing the message from the Queen on the 3rd of May, and Several Peers—Resume, Resume. against
he should have made some objections to the address which was Lord BROUGHAM—Then I shall enter my protest it'-' jc
'cloc ,
o
moved, in very cautious terms, in answer to that message if he that. They might have brought this message up at five , ,bur-
had not received intelligence on the day before, of certain pro. the proper time, But this is a specimen of the unnatura,.oo,
ceedings in the Legislative Assembly of Upper Canada, by vied speed at which legislation goes on at the end of the Se° di oio%
which the desire was declared of the legislature of that pro-- by persons who have been going on for five or six months icoe,
vince, to see carried into execution a legislative union between nothing, and what they have done they had better have I,fta:si of
the provinces. He refrained, therefore, at that time, from for they have done it in such a way as to give us a great -4,0olc•
stating his reasons for thinking the question was not then ripe trouble in setting it right.—(Laughter.) If any of thein---,o'us 41
for decision. It was his opinion it was not ripe for decision at ing towards the Bar, where a number of Members of the "--1, ilea
the commencement of the Session—it had not been ripe at any Commons were standing)—should happen to hear me throulge
cos
time during it, and it was not ripe now. He should, however, extraordinary channel, I hope they will mention this, and owe
consent to the House going into Committee upon this Bill, that to come up at the usual time. bias
Bill a
they might the better consider it. His opinion was, that before The Marquis of LANSDOWNE—Most probably the -_A. herd
their Lordships commenced what was called a settlement will be brought up is .a Bill which the Noble and Lea r7OO.
of Lower Canada they must first establishpeace, and the would wish .us to proceed with with unnatural speed, for Ir_ ~ and
Queen's authority in the provinces. *They had not at this mo- it 'is the Portuguese Slaie' Trade Bill.— (~ Hear, hem, .
ment established peace and the Queen's - ' authority there.. It laughter.) • .
Friena'''
'had been accurately stated in the last sentence of the speech Lord BROUGHAM--I totally differ with my Noble
oied 0
from the Throne, that the Lower Province of Canada was at (Laughter:). • I object to- an excellent measure being PrTil .
this moment in' a state of rebellion. The Queen at this instant bad means. gord t"
could not give protection to her loyal subjects there. They Lord HOLLAND thought it would be much better.to a...,..,--.
iiiele-ifot; therefore, in a situation to do anything except tols- • mre•Froti's6l6ColiirlailitioriVerildisEtald'it:-.-- -- - --.