The Sun.
London, England, 1863-06-10 00:00:00

and get some supporters in and out of the House. (A laugh.)
But of course no sane man would think of doing any such

thing. With respect to the decrease of candidates for the
Church, he could not believe it was owing to the sordid
motives by which it had been attempted to be explained.

He had been young himself once and had committed many
follies—(a laugh)—but he could assure the house that the
question of the more or fewer " nuggets" he might make
was not then the influential motive in his career. The

House of Commons, however, was not an ecclesiastical
synod, and he did not wish to see the time of the Long Par-
liament come back, when hon. members brought their
Bibles in their waistcoat-pockets, and enforced their parti-

cular dogmas with a quotation. At the same time, due

homage must be paid to the memory of the great statesmen
and churchmen of the age of the Stuarts, whose energy and

perseverance had procured the passing of measures which
had produced to the country two centuries of tranquillity.
(Hear.) Upon the question of subscription, he was gene-
rally opposed to the arguments of the hon. member for
Maidstone. How could they have a Church without a
creed ? How could there be a known and acknowledged
creed without some symbols of communion? (Hear,) In
fact there must be subscription, cr there was an end of the
Church. The revision should not originate in either House
of Parliament, but with the Queen as the head of the
Church, who should initiate a Royal commission, and then
first submit its report to C nvocation, whose basis should
be extended by the introduction of the Irish Church and
lay members, if necessary. Convocation, in its present
form, had, since its revival, done many things deserving
of commendation, and had acted, contrary to predic-
tion, in an eminently practical manner. He cobderaned
the course the Government had taken in meeting
the motion with the previous question. It was the boast of
this country that she had reconciled order with liberty, but
in her religious affairs she had the greater boast that she
had combined orthodoxy with toleration. But what security
had they for retaining it if they adopted the course that

had been so invidiously recommended by so many means,

and by so many channels ? He preferred to stand on an-
cient ground—on that Church which lives in the historic
conscience of the country, and which had come down to us
with her title deeds which all could understand, because
our ancestors had contributed to their creation, He had
heard no satisfactory cause given for the proposed change.
Mr. BUXTON having replied, said he should not divide
the house on his motion.

Sir G. BOWYER had never in that house taken part in
a discussion on the discipline and doctrine of the Church of

England, and, while defending his own Church, ho had
never said a word offensive to any other person's church or
religious belief. On the present occasion he merely in
tended to refer to some observations of the right hon, gentle-
man the member for Buckinghamshire. That right hon.
gentleman had said that a church must have a creed and
must have formularies, and from that he deduced that a
church must have an act of uniformity, But he must say
t hat if he were now in the Anglican Church, as he once had
been, he would not attach any value to the Act of Unifor-
mity. His Church had not an act of uniformity, and he
hoped it never would have one. What did our Lord intend the
Church to teach, when He told His apstles to go and teach
all nations, and that he would be with them to the end of the
world ? Did He intend it to teach an act of uniformity ?
Did He intend it to teach the Thirty-nine Artic,es, which
were not a dogma ? Did He tell it to teach for political
purposes or to teach as many errors as possible ? No, with
diversity there must be error. The duty of the Church
was to teach the truth. What did the Catholic Church
do ? She proclaimed a certain doctrine, and she said to
her followers, "If you do not believe this—you are
wrong." He knew why hon. gentlemen laughed; but he
was stating a fact. The debate had afforded him considera-
ble amusement. He had heard a great deal about the com-
prehensive character of the Established Church, and about
what was politically wise ; but he had not heard one word
about truth. The right hon. baronet the member for
Buckinghamshire had said that there were differences and
schisms in the Roman Catholic Church. He told the right
hon. gentleman that there were neither in that Church.
There were differences of opinion in the Roman Catholic
Church with regard to discipline and politics, but not with
regard to doctrine. There were differences among Catholics
as to the temporal power of the Pope, the celibacy of the
clergy, and other questions, but they did not differ upon
any question of dogma. As to the monastic orders, there
were differences between the Dominicans and Franciscans
on certain scholastic points of theology and science, but
they were perfectly agreed on all questions appertaining to
the Roman Catholic religion. That religion had always
been one and undivided, and those who differed from it had
always been ejected from it immediately. This was the
only honest course—to say, " I preach the truth," and
eject those who did not believe with you. But if men put
on a false appearance of unity which did not exist; shelter-
ing themselves under ambiguous words and uncertain for-
mularies, that was not honest. (Hear, hear.)
The " previous question"—in other words, that it was
inexpedient to consider at that particular time the motion
of the hon. member (Mr. Buxton)--was then put and
agreed to without a division.
THE BOARD OF ADMIRALTY.

Mr. DALGLISH, in moving that a select committee be
appointed to inquire into the constitution of the Board of
Admiralty, and the different departments under its con-
trol, reminded the house that the defect in its manage-
ment was no new subject, and that it had as yet made
little progress towards improvement. The report of the
committee which sat in 1861 showed that no progress had
been made in improving the system of the Admi-
ralty. He might go further, and say that in the year
1863 nothing had been done in the way of improvement.
The hon. member referred to the blue book of the com-
mittee, and to various documents, to prove the necessity of
altering the constitution of the Admiralty. But it was not
the Admiralty alone that required alteration, but the entire
system of their dockyards and shipbuilding establishments.
Mr. JACKSON seconded the motion.
Mr. SCOURFIELD opposed it.
Mr. BENTINCK thought the hon. gentleman who
moved for the committee was over sanguine with regard to
the benefit to be anticipated from its labours.
Sir F. O'BRIEN supported the motion.
Lord C. PAGET said there was no disposition whatever
on the part of the Government to evade full inquiry, but he
thought the proposed committee would be too / fficial in its
character to effect muc'a good. If there was a case against
the Admiralty let them leave it out, and he would be pre-
pared to meet it. The First Lord of the Admiralty was
wholly and entirely responsible to the Government of the
day, and there was a complete and effectual check on the
improper use of the patronage. The want of responsibility
in the dockyard at the time of the Royal commission with
reference to the ship-building department had since been
altered, and it has now been placed on the Surveyor of the
Navy, who had to account to the Admiralty. There was
now an effectual check on the expenditure of the dockyards.
It was neecessary to have naval men for controllers and in-
spectors of the navy, as none but naval men could under-
stand the duties to be performed. The noble lord also
referred to many other of the recommendations of the Royal
commissioners, most of which had been adopted or were
under consideration, and he assured the home that the Ad-
miralty were using their best exertions for the benefit and
efficiency of the navy, and to make such alterations and
improvements as would tend to the economy of that branch
of the service. The Admiralty did not intend to give up
the building of iron ships in private yards.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY moved the adjournment of the
debate.
Mr. CONINGHAM wished to know when the noble
lord the Secretary to the Admiralty would make his state-
ment on the subject of Greenwich Hospital.
Lord C. PAGET replied that he had never expressed an
ntention of making any such statemont.
The debate was then adjourned without a division.
MISAPPROPRIATION BY SERVANTS.

Mr. STANILAND obtained leave to introduce a bill to
amend the law in certain cases of misaapropriation by ser
vants of the property of their masters.
LISBURN ELECTION.

On the motion of Mr. COLLINS, the minutes of the
evidence taken before the Lisburn Election Committee were
ordered to be laid before the house.
SHEEP AND CATTLE (SCOTLAND) BILL,:
This bill passed through committee.
SUPPLY.

Mr. STANSFELD having brought up the report on
supply,
Sir J. ELPHINSTONE again objected to any further
expenditure on Alderney, and moved the adjournment of
the debate.
The motion was agreed to.
VOLUNTEERS BILL.

The consideration of this bill, as amended, was fixed for
Thursday.
AFRICAN SLAVE TRADE TREATY BILL,—IN-
LAND REVENUE BILL.
These bills were then read a third time and passed.
LOCAL GOVERNMENT SUPPLEMENTAL BILL,
This bill was passed through committee.
OFFICERS OF ROYAL NAVAL RESERVE BILL.
This bill was read a second time.
DOCKYARDS PROTECTION ACT AMENDMENT
BILL.
This was passed through committee,
The bills for which leave was obtained were then
brought in and read a first time.
The house adjourned at ten minutes to two o'clock.

A letter from Broussa (Asiatic Turkey) states that
the number of people who have arrived there for
bathing is greater than for many years past. Among the
latest arrivals are Omer Pasha, Nafiz Pasha, ea-Minister
of Public Worship, and Riza Pasha, The harem of Faud
Pasha is also passing the season at Broussa,

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