The Sun.
London, England, 1808-02-19 00:00:00

of, preserylng Os a deposit.,-Tlieir LordshipEi r d to tiptite EKertttive,,,,povernwint;-147testtoi:4*
still feel the impulses of their rectnt :devotion.. It .Lis t\f:-.-i, ;ty's , Miiii!Ors wet* pe , tualksi. IA
was hut yerdetay they had prostrated themselves ht- -; their ground 'Of deface on thitstityj di, Ft th ur
le
fore the Almighty to invoke his' blessings an OUT !. deelaredr that thgy w.ttejustitkid it their att. al
• . ... , Power
that Were they seriously anxious I o draw down at'i unbtiending Power, gytheinfilni:.y uof thatt-Power
that blessing on orir al-61s and our -cattle ;if they to resist' the influence of li'mnee ; i hen they main.
were,they might begin by being just, and P!terve it. tallied it by a reference to pretended Secret Articles
If they valued the honour .andeliar,t;:ler of the min- in the 'Treaty of Tilsit) - and 'Tiai tli-4.-c-a7finaM•
try, this was a moment to.shew Chetir anxiety to pre-' that-it was rendered necessary by the hostile'disposi-
ser,rethem both unstained. All the triumphs which tion pt Deurnark towards this Country. Inc; did not
the genius or the fortune of the Ruler Of France had , helieVe that this hostile disposition e‘er existed ; he
obtained ; all the glory, all, the laurels,' which his believed that the Crown Prince of Denmark had been
exploits had won, would be nothirg io his eyes.,. most fbully calumniated; and•lie took occaSion,:to
Compared with, the triumph which I c now labours 'deprecate the cowardly pra6tice, too common in this
to obtain over British 1..iit1.1 and honour., over'the yeti Country, of throwing on FOreign Princes (in what-
ootarnished lustre of the British thoraatr. It was ever w'jy ihey,might have attained to that:dienity)
not the extent of the population Over which he the imputations of the most base and unworthy de-'
ruled, that we had .most to attend to and to tear, lieription,
but the spirit and opinion, by which that population Lord RAItII6IVE Y defended his Majesty's Mi-
might be actuated. Let the lathe of Britain, con- nisters 'frOtu the accusation of having ,shitted the
time lair in their 'eyes, and. they will continue to re,- i grounds .ot, whiclt they had defended' the. justice'and
vere us ; once polluted, 'that veneration is gone, and policy of . the Danisti Expedition. The .faet ‘i'aB,v
they will soon cease to fear whom they begin to de, that the proofs of that justice and policy were. so -
spise. These considerations he felt, extretnAy de- numerous, that in arguing on the subjeia',•if was
sirous to impress upon their, Lordships' minds.: he . impossible to enolnerate them all, and consequently
also wished them to recoilea the concluding para. that might be considered an abdndonraitt of-motives;
graph of the Declaration in answer to that of Deti s which was merely a' statement of additional oats,
inark maclB in his Majesty's name : there theywOuld tThe Nohle.and Learned Lord oppmite, at the mo
see it was his MRjesty's wish, that the stvord slrould 1 ment that he contended that the just ificat;on of the
he sheathed as soon as the necessity ceased:that corn.. measure had' nothing to ciO with 'the que:,titlo befbre•
pelted him to draw it, and that hostilities should not the liouse, Lttered a vioient cen4ore:ag;linsi it. 'rho
he'pfotraCted beyond the limits' oft that necessify.— Learned Lord bilked of coquetting; he might be ad:.
Didsnch a necessity nuts exist as to compel us to ens dressed in the lines used to a coquette of anOther
Oly th'e Danish Navy in the British service, and to f (I,2seription ? .
deviate from the conditions to whieh the oatiim* <. Thu' you migllt have a tight to dissemble your love,
faith, anci honour have been solemnly plighted—if ss Yet—why diet you kick us•down tiiii,2, V.

not, their Lordships could not hesitate to acntue.w.e
in the motion with which he should now have the
honour' to coodude..—His Lordship. then moved
" that it •is the Opinion of this Honse, drat it is for
the honour of his Majesty's Government, and of
this Country, to preserve; the Danish Fleet in a
state eventually to be restored the_ same cpndi'.
lion in which it was taken, conformably to the spirit
of the different stipulations. into which the British
Commanders entered to that died!'
.Lnrd AQIUNGDON contended the seizure of
:the Danish Fleet was justified upon every principle
cif policy and necessity. , Independently of the
friendly disposition of the Crown Prince totawds
France, and the certain information that had been
received of the 'fleet being about to be placed at
the'dispiasal of France, M be employed against this
Coanny, it was impossible for Denmark, were she
even inclined to remain neutral; to preserve her fleet
frora falling lute the hands of our enemy ; and even
► upon that principle, the ad of preventing its being
so employed apinst us, was of, itself a sufficient jUB-
- of the measure.. Our condu.. in capturing
the Spanish frigates in the year t 805, was itidispus
tahly justifiable upon every principle of sound policy,
a 5 was aiso 'Otif possessing ourselves of the Toulon
Fleet at the commencement of the last war; and his
: Lordship argued that both these cases, the former
in particular, bore, in point of principle and polity,
a ,strict ':resemblance to that of the
:Danish Fleet.
His Lordship argued the principle at sotnelength,
and :chewed that our honour was untarnished, while
our means of security were inereased,and cow;luded
by declaring himself against die motion.
Lord JaLE4V.I4OIiOI2O,I observed, ,that the
resemblance which the Noble Lord discovered t;;,:.
tween the seizure of the Danish Fleet and the cap.'
titre of the Spanish frigates, or the cession Of the
l'eulon Fleet, did not in reality exist. Although
the* House was not called ots by the present mullein'
to' approve or disapprove of the Danish ExpeditiOis.,
yet he should think hiniSelf disingenuous and suss
candid, lie Should think that hetoquetted with the
Muse,' and the public, if he did not distinctly des
dare, that in his opinion the name, charaEter; and
honour of the Country; had been more completely
sacrificed In that transalion than in any on the an-
nals of; our history. It was a transaction which it
was impossible to reprobate too severely. That il-
lustrious person, the Crown Prince of Denmark,
had beet most unjustly slandered. Ilut the measure
was justified on ,the ground of its necessity. NO
necessity for it existed, except, indeed, that kind of
necessity which Was often pleaded at the Old Bailey.
But for the sake of argunient, that the
necessity existed to the extent assumed by his us_
jesty's Ministers, surely indeolnification ought to be
made when that necessity ceased to exist. His Ma-
joly's Government were very much deceived if they
did net exited, whatever :night be the event of the
war, that the restitution to Denmark of her fleet
would be insisted en 'by the Continental Powers as
the ,sine qua non of peace. Let us therefore deter-
niltiev that den- fleet should be kept in the same
stme:ttli :thee -,th which' it was when it came into
our passession. ' Let us determine by the vote of
I/IN:Alight; to remove one' great impediment that,
must:tulle:wise nbstrud the return of general tran-
quillity. ,
''lre LORD (741ACELL(474 in reply, main-
taieed that his Noble Friend was justified in adducing,lfie'ciplufe n ' of the Spanish frigates, and the cesgio
of the French fleet, as precedents of the justice of
the seizure, of the Danish ships. Did not this country
also in 1185 take possestsion of the Dutch marine on
principle'?- As the Learned Lord had chosen
to.charatterize the Danish Expedition in. terms of
such severe censure, he would say, that as one of
those
.by whom the measure was taken, he was con-
. Yir444 that it. W 20,3 most:wise and justifiable measure,
an 4 that, had it not been adopted, his Majesty's
Mieliters, would liztee, been justly liable to, all the re-
prOacties the Learned Loyd showered upon them.
Vier reSped to the propriety of restoring her fleet
to Deimiark at any future period, he contended that
by the Declaration Of War whidiDenotirk had issued,
sitf;;. had for her claim to be considered as a nett-
tral by 'ele6t Britain, and that her'ships 'Were un-
questienably liaule to he 'condemned as good prize.,
Lard HOLLAND,
,in very seam in terros, repro-
bated the conduct of his Majesty's Ministers, both
for the Expedition itself, and 14 theirrefusal to ac-
cede to the Noble Viscount's Motion. Ho maintain-
ed, at considerable length, that the .attack on Co-
penhagen Was Most atrocious' and uncoiled for by
any consideration of policy; but wore' ire' to allow
that the reverse wits the faCt,.to what did the MOtion
of the ::,;eble Viscount tend? nierely:to.reconnteutt
that the Danish Fleet shoeld be kept, in such a state;
that it might be restored , not initnedbtely, tint
the eonclusion of hostilities, not at any defined pe-
Lied, but simply svhenever It ishuuld be thought pro-

He opposed the motion of the noble Viscount, ,be-
cause, instead of giving facilities in the 'negotiation
fora peace, he was of opinion it would fetter Uovern-;
merit, and prevent them from Obtaining, the terms
they might otherwiSe secure. The arguments of the
noble Lords went too far for theirTurpose, ler if
they prOved any thing, they 'proved, not that the
Throislaleet.should be kept in order, that they might
be restored at some subsequent period, but instantly
without delay. •
Lord ERSKINE argued at eetisiderable length to
shew the injnatice anitinipolicy of the Expedition to
'Copenhagen,.and the expediency of agreeing-to the
noble Vi count's motion. . He concurred • with his
noble and learnedli`riend on the Old Bailey kind of
necessity urged ie its defence. Add with respect,to
eventually retainingahe fleet in our posSession, it was
__surely impossible we couldahinkot doing so afterthe
Declaration made to the Danes,.in which it was stilt,.
ed, that their fleet was required a, a " deposit" in
our hands. Were we to attempt ultimately, to keep
them, we should. net like a man who, from appre-
hension of being attacked.by thieves, should seize a
fowling-piece from a neighbour who was. too weak
to resist him, and afterwards point the identical weal
On to its master's breast, and go out sporting ivith
it for a whole seasoft. , His learned Friend had been
accused of kicking Ministers doWn stairs in the de-
bote. This he had not done, for the former discds-
alotiS oil this subje& bad long left them at the bot-
tom.- He congratulated himself that he had at least
entered aselenin protest against the measure adopt-
ed by Ge,:ernment, and by that means escaped tliu
.'cessation of being, a partner in their guilt.. Thia
Country had formerly been the day-star of Enrope..
To her Europe had looked for an -example of sheitty
fidelity, honour, and adherence to the law of nations..
If from this proud eminence she should be hurled
.by the criminal conduCt of his Majestyls Ministera,
we shotild irrecoverable sink into the gulph of. ruin.
and infamy, and no one would say " Gbd bless es."
Lori? IVESTMOBLA opposed the motion of
the noble Viscount, and deprecated the condual of
that eighth, wonder of the world, the last Admini-
stration, who having by their weak councils and. in-
aetion placed the Ceuinry in a state of peril, censur-
ed' the wise and energetic, measures of his Majesty's
present Governmect, by which we hail been rescued
from the danger.'" The neeessity.of. the steps .taken
by us Was notorious. His Majesty, in his tnost gra-
cious speech, had' declared intermation of that ueccs-
shy had been received by him ;• a declaration which,
constitutibually.speaking, ought to have been receiv-
ed without hesitation. This information could niat.
be communicated to Parliament., but did it follOw
that the EXectitive,Government were not justified
aefing upon it ? If the Executive 'Government
Were restricted from eating but on information they
could communicate to the Government, ibis Counts y
might sobri beciame like the wrestler so beauti fully de-
scribed by Demosthenes, who, instead of defending
himselefrona blows meditated against him, was oc-
cupied in guarding against blows already struck.
vri • r
Lord 5e.,1.1 Itk'suppOrtea a_ Ustwith-
standing Ins approved oi thefrEXpeditioo, as he did not
conceive us worrantedin retaining the ships.
Lord RED ESDALE argned against the principle
of the motien. .Denmark was hostile to us, and to
return- the fleet Would be to afford her the means Of
rendering her hostility etfeaual, and of throwing her
naval strengthinto the arms of France,
Lord D. eIRNLE I' supported the motion.. The
proposition ought to be acceded to, not only from' a
regard to good faith, but to the interests and security
of the Country. • .
Lord MA GRAPE could not but look on the
motion as alt attempt to cast a. reproach and stigma
on the Atinainistsation who had conceived and .cm-
ectued the Expedition, anaChievement, which, when
duly considered, as it had beets by the *est, men
in the country Was acknowle3ged to have in it every
thing that .could constitute a great, signal, and most
useful service. Viewing the motion in thatlight,. he
should give it-his decided oppositiOn.
Lord GRENVILLE argued iii favour of the mo-
tion, and contended that, the restoration of the rivet
'wouldtend to conciliate a Power whose affea ions We
had alienated.
Lurd,lLl IPKESI3UtiY replied to Lord Grenville,
and Showed. that independently of the fact of an ud-
derstandiug between Den Mark and France, the for-
mer had openly manifested a hostile disposition to-
wards us before the E%pedition 'was iniderta);(ll.
lord iSM.,IIO/271.1 weak a short general lel)!
after (in idud :
Confehrs li, Proxies at)---- 4 t
Nou-coMents - 6i , Proxies 44----toa
Ma3ority
_against the Motion -
Adjourned 'at Two 'clock this morning.

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