The Sun.
London, England, 1839-03-12 00:00:00

fine in the :Mediterranean—( Hear, hear)—or why were
t!tey to have their shcres completely unprotected as they
et present were? Why had they not a force on the
American coast, where warlike operations had been going
on for tome time past ?—( Hear, hear.) When the
French expedition arrived at San Juan D'Ulloa, tho Eng-
lish vessels of war on that station had, actuallyconscious of its
weakness, gone to Jamaica for the purpose of communi-
cating with the Admiral. He would b© glad to bear what
defence her Majesty's Government had to offer for the
total neglect of British interests in Mexico which that
movement exhibited ? If there was a formidable Bt.:ash
squadron at Vera Cruz he was satisfied that the pi:lt
would never have been taken cut of the Express packet.—
(Cheers ) If any doubt existed as to the conduct of
Lieut. Croke (who was said to be a gallant officer),
why should he not be put on his trial, end then the whole
facts of the case would come before the public and the
blame would be placed upon the_rif,,,ht parties ? He re-
gretted having trespassed so long upon the time of the
Committee, but he felt that so many attacks had been
been made upon the Adminiqra.ion with which he was
connected, that he could not remain silent on the present
occasion —( Hear, hem-. )
Lord PALMERSTON contended that the Right
Hon. Baronet, the Member fat Psmworth, had completely
exonerated the Government from any neglect of British
interests of Mexico. The Noble Lord, after alluding to
the circumstpnces which had oeclsioned the blockade of
Mexico by a French force, observed that her Majesty's
Government could not t:ispate the right of the renteh
Government to hive recourse to a blockade, in order W
obtain a compliance with their demands for reparation.
All thst was necessary on their part was to see that the
British interests were protected, and a sufficient Naval

force was rent for that purpose. The French Govern-
ment, finding that Mexico refused a compliance with

its demands, sent out a larger force, in order
to bike more active measures. When that-intention
was intimated to the British Government an adequate
force was sent out far them, but not with the intention of
offsring any hostile opposition to the French; and when
the R'gsht Honourable Baronet said that the British squadron
arrived too late, he must have argued upon the assumption
that the squadron went there to oppose the French force,
which it was not intended to do. They had received
the most satisfactory assurances from the French Govern-
ment that they had no intention to take permanent posses-
sion of the citadel or any portion of the Mexican coast,
and it would have been perfectly unjustifiable on
their parts to attempt any ewgressive measures under
such circumstances. It had been stated that, from the
accidental delay in the arrival of their squadron, British
interests had suffered. He believed that was not a fact.
One would suppose that the town had been attacked and
pill govt by a hostile army, but the fact was that the crews
of the French vessels had merely landed, rendered the
guns of the fort useless, and then re-embarked. It was
said also that there was no authorized negotiator at Vera
Cruz *0 endeavour to effect an arrangement between the
Mexican and the French Governments; but 'Mr. Paken-
ham, who had come home on leave of absene, returned
on the breaking out of hostilities, and he, in conjunction
with Mr. Ashburnharu, had exerted themselves most effi-
ciently, and he believed there was every prospect of a
speedy and satisfactory arrangement.—( Hear, hear.)
With regard to the distribution of their Naval force,
it would be found on inquiry that they had had
a large disposable ft.ree at their command. The
Gallant Officer who had spoken in a previous part of the
evening had asserted that the course of their foreign
policy va.s such, that they could not with their present
force carry it into effect ; and he had added that if any ad-
dition was proposed to their present establishment, it
should have his support. They (the Government) thought
the present means of defence wassufficient, but if an addi-
tion should be required they should be happy to avail them-
selves of the services of the Gallant Officer opposite.
Two objects of a navel force were the defence
of our own shores, and the protection of British
commerce in foreign countries. Bearing this principle
in view he would refer to the observation of the Right
Hon. Baronet (the Nlembir for Tamworth), who had
said that it would be bettor to have eight, or ten, or eleven
guardships, as before, than to have part of our force on
some foreign station as now. However, he (Lord P.)
thought the present method- batter, because while they
had a squadron in the Mediterranean, or in other stations,
within a convenient distance of home, the men and
officers were practically instructed and trained in the
various duties of their profession, much more effici-
ently than if they were confined in their ships in
our own ports from year to year.—( Hear, hear.) He
was quite sure that if they were to keep their ships at
home, the Hon. Baronet opposite would be the very first
to say, ,‘ Why do you put us to the expense of maintain-
ing so many useless ships every year? Surely it would be
better to have them on some foreign station, where the
crews might be exercised, thee to have them rotting in our
ports at horne."— ( Hear.) If lie were asked why we had such
a force in the Mediterranean, he would reply that we had
always important stakes in those countries that bordered
that station, as any person who would look at the map of
Europe might see, end where it was necessary that England
shonld exercise a moral duty ; in fact we always had an effec-
tive squadron in the Mediterranean. In the year 1834 the
Mediterranean squadron was 8 sail of the line ; in 1835, it
was 6 ; in 1836, it was 9 ; in 1337, 7; in 1838. 9 ; in-
deed he was afraid that we hardly had a force large enough
there now. But it had been said that if we were at war,
the Mediterranean fleet would be of no use ; he would ask
where else it would be more wonting ? If we went to war
with Russia, as many Hon. Gentlemen apprehended (but
he did not apprehend), the very first thing we should do,
would be to send a strong fleet into the Mediterranean sea.
) But if we should go to war with Russia, be
admitted that we should equip a larger force for the Me-
diterranean to cope with the 28 sail of the line which Rus-
s:a could bring into the sea; but he would repeat there was
no likelihood of a rupture with Russia. Nor was there
anything in our relations to justify such apprehensions.
! Every thing on both sides tended to show a strong
desire for mutual peace and friendship. If any
emergency, however, should arise, be- had no doubt that
Parliament-would sanction any increaso .of force which the
Government mi ght feel it expedient to demand. __As for
the squadron of a frigate and two sloops on the coast of
Spain he would repeat that they mere scarcely more ex-
pensive there than elsewhere. However, in this noticn he was
sure that those who prayed for the success of Don Carlos
would not go along with him ( Lord Palmerston) who
desired the success of Queen Isabella and her Government.
—( Laughter and hear.) He believed our rumerous com-
mercial interests in Spain, and the maintenance of the ba-
lance of power, required all the naval farce that we now
had there. He had reason to knave that it had done very
considerable service to the cause of the Queen and Con-
stitution.--( Laughter and hear.) As for the 100 Marines
employed there, we could have them home as soon as
the ships could receive them.—(Laughter and hear.) No
doubt the Government had acted judiciously in not having
as yet called upon the House to sanction the equipment of
a large number of ships. He contended that British in-
terests had been nowbeve neglected, and that from what-
ever quarter ;Applications had been made for protecion that
protection had been granted.—( Hear, hear.)
Sir G. CLERK was glad that the Noble Lord had met
the question on the ground on which it ought to rest. He
believed that was unfortunately too true. He wished to
call the attention of the House back to the charge brought
against the Government by the Right lion. Baronet the
Member for Tamworth, and to which no satisfactory answer
bad been given, viz., the delay that had been al-
lowed to take place before any force was sent out
to Vera Cruz. It was publicly announced and notorious
to the Government here, that the French were about to send
out an expedition, and that they intended to take Vera
Cruz immediately on their arrival. The French squadron
sailed on the 13th of September, and yet no reinforcement
was sent out to Sir Chas. Paget until the end of October.
He did not wish to enter into a discussion upon the out-
rage that bad been committed on the British flag, but he
hoped it would appear that the Noble Lord the Secretary,
for Foreign affairs had availed himself of the earliest op-
portunity of making some communication to the Am-
bassador at Paris, although he was afraid there was some
considerable delay either in the communication from the
Government with Lord Granville, or in Lord Granville's
communication with the French Government.
Mr. CORRY thought, whatever naval deficiency might
exist, it was not to be attributed so much' to the Board of
Admiralty as to the mistaken system of economy. The
state of the Navy was insufficient to defend the interests of
this great empire; it was insufficient either for peace or
war. He was one of those who, in forming an esti-
mate, did not think expense ought to be the first consider-
tion, but efficiency.
Lord SANDON would appeal to any one connected
with a commercial community, whether the protection
afforded to trade were sufficient. The petition that would
be presented to the House on Thursday next, would afford
a better test of the opinions of commercial men than any
thing be could say.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL did not wish to trespass on
the attention of the Committee, but the second speech of
the Right Hon. Baronet, the Member for Tamworth, made
it incumbent on him to say a few words. With respect to
the question just raised by the Noble Lord the Member for
Liverpool, namely, the protection of the commercial inter-
ests of this country in the Gulf of Mexico, he did not state
there bad been remonstrances against the state of the block-
ade.—( Hear, hear.) The point which the Noble Lord
spoke to was especially one on which the Hon. Baronet had
made some statements. The Hon. Baronet complained
that there was not a sufficient force in the Gulf of Mexico,
after the capture of St. Juan d'Ulloa. With respect to the
blockade and capture, was it the duty of the Mi-
nisters of this country to enter into liabilities with
France to prevent by force that capture ?—( Hear, hear.)
The question was whether our commercial interests would
be injured during the attack upon San Juan D'Ulloa. No
doubt the persons and property of the English were then in
danger; nothing, however, took place—no danger was
incurred, and it was not necessary thatthere should be a force
there for this protection. The Right Honourable Bart.
had stated—taking advantage of that which was almost
usual—that the Agent, the Consul, who was there pro-
tecting British interests, was also the Consul for France.
It was true that it was so, but it was a very usual
occurrence, when the Consul of one country
should have occasion to leave his duties to
entrust them to a friendly power, it was so in this case,
and he believed that the duties conld not have been placed
in better hands. Then as to the insult which had been
offered to our flag, the Hon. Baronet said that we ought
not to wait for facts—he said we should not wait to hear
the real facts of the case, but insisted that they should at
once have an explanation, without the facts of the case
being known.-,-(Cheers.) Another point which tht
Honourable Baronet found fault with was the
large force we bad in the Mediterranean, but it
was to be remembered that there were two
powers, who both had large fleets, Turkey and the Pacha
of Egypt. And it was most important that England should
take caro there should be no collision between the two
fleets—he believed that there was no immediate danger of
that kind, but still he thought it was necessary to keep
several line of battle ships in the Sea. He did not recollect
there was any other point to which it was necessary for
him to advert. He trusted that the vote would be allowed
to pass.
Mr. PLUMPTRE, after alluding to Capt. Napier's