The Sun.
London, England, 1863-06-26 00:00:00

StiITORS' CONCILIATION BILL.

Lord BROUGHAM said he should postpone pressing
for a second reading of this bill until Tuesday next.

WAYWARDEN'S CONTRACTS BILL.
Lord REDESDALE moved the second reading of this
bill.

Lord STANLEY of ALDERLEY said the bill was en-
tirely unnecessary, because the matter had already been
dealt with by previous legislation.

This bill was read a second time.
LEASES AND SALES OF SETTLED ESTATE ACT
AMENDMENT BILL.

On the motion of the LORD CHANCELLOR, the
house went into committee on this bill.
Lord CHELMSFORD moved an addition to one of the
clauses, which, in effect, gave Sir T. M. Wilson the power
to apply to the Court of Chancery for permission to build
on certain portions of his estate.

Lord EBURY said he had just presented a petition from
the Board of Works against such a provision as was sought
to:be introduced into the bill by the noble lord's addition.
He thought it would certainly interfere with the
passing of the measure, as the House of Commons only last
evening rejected a bill which had been introduced for about
the sixth time, by which Sir Thomas Wilson would be en-
abled to apply to the Comt of Chancery for permission to
grant building leases on certain portions of his estate which
he was not at liberty to do at present.
The proviso of Lord Chelmsford was added to the bill.

Lord ST. LEON A.RDS objected to the principle of the
bill, in permitting tenants for life to apply to the Court of
Chancery, which, in its will and discretion, might appoint
trustees to sell the settled estate and lay out the money, if
they saw fit, in the purchase of railway shares.
Lord CRANWORTH defended the bill. The principle
was to permit the owner for life to improve the estate and
exercise ownership over it, except in so far as that he could
not alienate it. The principle had been already admitted
and recognised by the existing law, which was merely to be
amended by the present bill.
Lord PORTMAN objected to the clause altogether,

The LORD CHANCELLOR explained that it was in
compliance with the wish of many noble lords that he had
prepared the clause. However, he had no wish to press it
against the wish of the house. (Hear.)
Several peers intimated to the Lord Chancellor that he
ought to go to a division.

Earl GREY said that it was not thought well to give
powers of assisting railways by special clauses in a pri-
vate bill. It was understood that a general bill was to be
passed to give those powers to all owners of settled estates;
and the special clauses had accordingly been struck out of
the private bill, which had been sent down to the other
house without it. The bill now before their lordships was
a simple fulfilment of the pledge given by the noble and
learned lord. He trusted it would be allowed to pass through
committee.

The discussion was prolonged by Lords Powis, Romney,
and Taunton.

The LORD CHANCELLOR thought that the measure
might be brought forward in a better form in another ses-
sion. He therefore withdrew the clause,
The bill was then passed through committee without the
amendment.

NAVAL MEDICAL SUPPLEMENTAL FUND SO-

CIETY WINDUP ACT, 1861, AMENDMENT
BILL,

The Duke of SOMERSET moved the second reading of
this bill.

Lord CHELMSFORD opposed it.

After a short discussion, the second reading was agreed

SALE OF MILL SITES. &c. (IRELAND) BILL.

This bill was read a second time.

DRAINAGE AND IMPROVEMENT OF LANDS

(IRELAND) BILL.

I his bill was read a second time, and referred to a select
committee.

AFRICAN SLAVE TRADE TREATY.

Earl RUSSELL moved the committee on this bill, which
was agreed to, and the report was received.

VOLUNTEERS.

On the motion of Earl DE GREY and RIPON, the
house went into committee on this bill.

Clauses 1 to 34 were agreed to, with a few verbal
amendments.

On clause 35 being taken up,
Earl DE GREY and RIPON suggested that his noble
friend (the Duke of Richmond) should allow him to intro-
duce his (Earl De Grey's) amendments first.
The amendments were then put.
The Duke of RICHMOND, in opposing these clauses,
did so without any feeling of hostility to the great and im-
portant volunteer movement. But he disapproved of the
attempt to obtain practice grounds and rifle ranges for the
volunteers by the means set forth in the clauses under con-
sideration. The powers sought by them were very great
and so very unusual, that few of their lordships would be
willing to have them conferred upon them, and still fewer
would be willing to exercise them if conferred. The Coast
Defence Act was not a parallel case, as it was merely
directed to the coast defences ; but the present bill extended
over the whole country. They were asked to legislate fora
particular purpose, and no ground or peculiar hardship had
been shown for the justification of the extreme powers
sought. (Hear.) No case had been adduced of a corps that
was unable to procure practice-ground, and no attempt
had been made to show that the volunteer force would
be the less efficient for the want of those extraordinary
powers. The power, if granted, would be very seldom
exercised, and therefore it would not be well to pet into the
hands of the lord-lieutenant such a power ; for, practically,
it Would be in the hands of the lord-lieutenant. The corps
would memorialise the lord-lieutenant to appoint them a
Fro:tend—the lord-lieutenant would appoint his deputy-
u ant to inspect and report upon the ground for him—
aviactich I
he
thought it right, he would accede to the proposal
would forward to the Secretary of State. After-
wards, application would be made to Parliament to ratify
the arrangement by enactment. But, seeing that the plan
would come recommended
state
what mended by the lord-lieutenant and the
Secretary
the
chance would any owner of pro-
perty have of defeating
.begn,
made
out billf in Parliament. Seeing that
no case had
the clauses, and that the
grievance which suggested tiler
as almost an imaginary
one, they would only be encurnmhZotbrig the statute book by
passing all unnecessary am
concluded.lectionable enactment.
(Hear, hear.) The noble duke
omission of the clause. by moving the
Earl DE GREY and RIPON Was not
surprised
Lotf their
place,
noble lord had raised the question, or that many
that the
lordships would oppose the clause. But,
in thean
he could not think that the noble duke was correct in
sup-
posing that the main responsibility would be thrown upon
the lord-lieutenant. There was no doubt that the proposal
to the lord-lieutenant should be made, and that he should give
a certificate. That power wasadded merely to give additions)
security that no land would be taken except where it was
wanted, and could not be obtained except by the intervention
of this power. A petition would have to be presented to
the Secretary of State for War, who would make inquiries
into the circumstances, and if he approved of the proposal
it would have to be brought before Parliament. He (Earl
De Grey) had introduced words requiring the lord-lieuten-
ant to certify not only that the ground was wanted,but that
the proposed ground was secure, and properly adapted for
the purpose, so that the certificate could only be granted
where the volunteers really required land. But then came
all the other proceedings. A petition would be presented to
the Secretary of State. The Secretary of State would make
the same inquiry which was at present made under the
Local Government Act, after which he would make the
order, which would require the sanction of an Act of Par-
liament. The real question wad, whether there was any
neeeeeity for the power. In country districts it was hardly
Possible that volunteer corps should be in want of ranges
for practice; but in every large town,especially in the neigh-
d of London, there was groat difficulty in obtaining

such ranges. In London there were 26 corps whose prac-
tice ground was at the Government range at Woolwich,
where they could only practice when the reg a; r troops
were not occupying the ground. The consequ e.ce was that
they were debarred from anything like reg ar practice.
Volunteers ought to have peculiar facilitie r, in conse-
quence of their superior intelligence and e interest they
took in practising, they were were enabled to attain a very
high proficiency when they were afforded proper opportuni-
ties ; so much so that Parliament bad recently decided that
not less than 10s. out of the 30s. granted to the volunteers
should be dependent on their having passed through a con-
siderable amount of musketry instruction, involving the
firing of a large number of rounds every year. It would be
impossible for them to obtain that money unless they had
proper facilities afforded them for practice. By an Act
passsd some time ago, they were enabled to obtain ranges
voluntarily,but it had not resulted in their obtaining them.
The present bill had been framed under the direction of the
late Sir G. C. Lewis,to whom and the Government it appeared
that these clauses were justified by the needs of the force,
and they were a necessary corollary of the vote of Parlia-
ment, which depended upon the efficiency of the men. The
rejection of the clause would be regarded with much regret
by a considerable number of volunteers. But at the same
time, if the general feeling of the house was that the clauses
should not be proceeded with, he would have no objection to
withdraw them, as they formed no essential part of the bill.
The Earl of DERBY thought that the noble earl could
not deny that in those clauses he had asked for very un-
usual powers. Persons whose grounds were sought won d
be put to the expense of resisting; and no cases of practical
grievance had been brought forward to show the necessity
for such power being given. He hoped that the noble earl
would consent at least to postpone the consideration of the
compulsory clauses, if he did not withdraw them.
Earl GRANVILLE urged that the same power existed
already with regard to the regular army, But, on the whole,
seeing the opposition that was offered to the clause, which
his noble friend had evidently miscalculated, he recom-
mended him to withdraw it.

The Earl of DERBY—I have always had a great opinion
of my noble friend's discretion ; but I must confess I never
saw that discretion more remarkably exhibited than on the
present occasion. (Laughter.)
Earl DE GREY and RIPON said that ho would consent
to withdraw the compulsory clauses, but on bringing up
the report he would introduce a clause to preserve to the
volunteers the permissive powers which they possessed at
present. (Hear, hear.)
Clause 35 and the other compulsory clauses were then
struck out.

The remaining clauses were agreed to, and the bill passed
through committee.
No mention wis made of the new clause which Earl De
Grey and Ripon has given notice to insert after clause 14 ;
but we understand that it is to be proposed by the noble
earl when the report on amendments is brought up.