The Sun.
London, England, 1863-05-20 00:00:00

IRISH CHURCH TEMPORALITIES.

Mr. DILLW YN rose to move for a select committee to
inquire how far the present distribution of endowments for
religious purposes throughout Ireland might be so amended
as most to conduce to the welfare of all classes of her Ma-
jesty's Irish subjects. The hon. member said he thought
the time had come when a great change should take place
in the arrangement of the temporalities of the Irish Church.
He further thought that the Liberal party were pledged in
a special manner to the advancement of that question.
He was aware that any measure which was likely per-
manently to settle a question of so much magnitude
should emanate from the Government, as no private
member could entertain any hope of carrying it thr. ugh.
He had long been expecting to find the question an-
nounced in the Royal speech, but, like reform and other
questions which had been the watchwords of the Liberal
party, it was allowed to sleep. But the question of the Irish
Church temporalities was not, like reform or any of the other
questions, advocated by the Liberal party, but was of an en-
tirely exceptional character. A well known writer has re•
e,ently observed that the hold which the Irish Church
had upon the affections of the Irish people was a
garrison of 20,000 men. That was the opinion of Mr. G.
Smith, a professor at Oxford. It was for this house
to say whether the power so wielded was wielded for the
advantage of the whole nation, and justified by national
exigency, and whether the establishment had answered the
ends for which it had been endowed. As he wished to for-
th), himself behind the opinions of statesmen, he would
read an extract from the speech of the right hon. member
for Buckinghamshire (Mr. Disraeli). Speaking on an Irish
question, the right hen. gentleman said, "That dense po-
pulation in extreme distress who inhabited Ireland had an
established Church which was not their Church, a territo-
rial aristocracy, the richest of whom lived in distant capi-
tals; there they have a starving population, an absentee
aristocracy, and an alien Church ; in addition to which
they had the weakest executive in the world." What would
any hon. gentleman say on reading such an account of any
country? He would say at once the only remedy was re-
volution; but the Irish People would not have revolution—
and why? Because Ireland was connected with another
and more powerful country ; so that the connection with
England was the cause of the present state cf things in
Ireland ; and if England prevented a revolution, which
was the only remedy, then England was logically in the
odious position of being the cause of the miseries of Ireland.
Believing that the Irish Church was not a political neces-
sity, and that it had not proved a success, he could not
allow the question to sleep any longer. Re had been eight
or nine years in the house, and the question had only been
once brought forward, and that was by Mr. Miall. He was
ashamed to call himself a Liberal, and sit on those benches,
and see a question shirked year after year to which that
party was pledged. He maintained that the misgovernment
of this country was the cause of the disorders, disturbances,
rebellion, conspiracies, trials for high treason, and religious
riots, which were constant in Ireland. Lord Brougham, in
1823, declared that the time would come when that house
must give an aecount of its stewardship. Lord J. Russell, in
1835, said there was no time in which the Irish people did
not feel themselves to be the subjects of tyranny and not of
just government. He (Mr. Dillwyn) believed that the Irish
people were the most patient on the face of the earth,
or they would not put up with such gross injustice ;
and this was especially manifest in the matter of religion.
In Canada, in Scotland, in every other part of her Majesty's
dominions, the religious opinions of the majority were re-
spected, but in Ireland the opinions of the majority were
held subject to a dominant class. (Hear, hear.) This it
was which prevented union between tie dominant class. He
might show the feelings which actuated that class from a
letter in the Irish Ecclesiastteal Gazette, in which the writer
said he did not object to any one on account of his religion,
if he were infidel, Socinian, or even Roman Catholic--
(oh I)—and then recommended Protestant landlords to se

lect Protestant tenants. It was not to be expected that the
Catholic priest, feeling himself aggrieved from his position,
should fall into the views of the Government which perpe-
tuated acts of injustice toward his religion. The resolutions

of that house showed how the leading statesman felt the
Church to be at the bottom of the mischief in Ireland

Hear, hear.) He reviewed the legislation, and the at•

tempts at legislation, that had taken place on. this question,
and traced the evils existing in Ireland to her Church diffi•
culty. The object of his motion was to redistribute and re.

arrange the Irish Church revenues more in accordance with

the principles of justice. The fifth article of the Union had
hitherto prevented them going into the subject, but he con-
tended it did not apply to the temporalities of the Church,
but only to the doctrine and discipline. Not a word was

said in the clause about the temporalities,which he thought
was not attributable to accident ; because that was gene-
rally the first thing thought of bythe friends of the Church.
The two Churches were to be considered as one; and,far as
the Church of England was concerned, they had always
c'aimed a right to deal with its temporalities, and they had
done so in many instances, for the purpose of making it
more effective. He looked on the Irish Church as a source

of weakness to the country
and to the Church of Eng-
land. They often heard the,church spoken of as so many
bishops, priests, and deacons. They, however, were only
its ministers, the Church being the wh le body of the
people; and he insisted that they had no right to keep up

and maintain the Church for the sake of the few, and ignore
the spiritual welfare of the masses. If they had to begin
de novo to legislate for the Irish Church, he doubted if they
would proceed on the same principle. Ile could not see any
justification for its maintenance, either as a political neces-
sity, for rational strength, or to promote harmony and the
interests of religion. Whatever the present status of Pro-
testantism in Ireland, it was due not to the revenues of the
Establishment, but to the extraneous aid which the cause
' received in the subseriptions collected in England. In 1834.
11 per cent. of the population was Protestant, 81 per cent.
Catholic, 8 per cent. Presbyterian, and one-third per cent.
other persuasions. In 1861 the numbers stood thus—lli
per cent; were Protestants, 78 per cent. were Catholics, 9
per cent. Presbyterians ; while the other persuasions, in .
eluding Wesleyans, Independents, and Baptists. had risen
to one and one-eighth per cent., which showed that those
who were most dependent upon voluntary efforts flourished
most. It was evident that the Irish Church question must
be settled before long; for the people of Ireland could not
be expected to remain quiet under a state of things which
Parliament, nearly all the leading statesmen of the country,
and both the great political parties had declared should be
altered. He admitted that he desired to lay hands upon the
temporalities of the Irish Church, not for the benefit of
that Church, but for the benefit of the Irish people.
He was aware that this country did not like the Roman
Catholics, but still it valued justice and fair play; and
he believed, if the question of the temporalities of the

Irish Church Establishment were put upon broad princi-
ples, there would ba a disposition to deal with it. The
noble lord at the head of the Government some years ago