The Sun.
London, England, 1830-05-29 00:00:00

looked upon it in nearly the same light as Mr Fox, and
was unwilling to see an assemblage of such large bodies re
he people hrought under circumstances which easily led
to great excitement, and which might tend to a union o'
the Crown and the people ; which, instead of balancing
the Constitution, would upset it. On the subject of vote
by ballot, he differed from his Hon. and Learned Friend,
the Member for Clare, and also from his Noble Friend the
!ember fur Northampton (Lord Althorp). On this sub-
sect he also differed from some of the ablest and most intel-
ligent men; but however diffidently he might put his opi-
nion in opposition to theirs in other respects, yet he was
so convinced on this one point of the inefficiency of the
vote by ballot to secure purity of election, that he must
express himself as confidently as he felt. In a contested
election (and the principle could apply to a contested elec-
tion) they were wrong who imagined—supposing that
vote by ballot existed—that by it they could obtain a per-
fect security for concealment. They must take things in
this sublunary world as they found them, and they would
find an election by ballot a very different thing from what
it bad been—so honestly, he would admit, but so errone-
ously—described to be. A county election could not be
managed like an election at a club, where the box was
handed round and the pellet thrown in, and there was an
end of it. To go to a contest for a county or extensive
ei'y, a man must he constantly amongst the people. His
friends and himself should be unremittingly engaged in ac-
tive canvas; committees and sub- divisions of committees
must be occupied in parcelling out the several districts,
and ascertaioing how their strength stood in this part and
the other : landlords were to be sought out, and they of
course, it was to be supposed, would exercise an influence
over their tenants. The tenant was then applied to, and
he gave his solemn promise—" I mean to vote for you,
sir; you may rely upon me with confidence. God forbid
that I should not vote for you, under whom I and my family
have thriven." He was, it was assumed,- protected by
the ballot ; for he (Mr. Brougham) would suppose that
those who advocated this system would he able to devise
some plan by which the voter was to be able to vote in
such a manner as that mortal could not discover, except
from himself, how be voted; that he was to be placed in
some kind of sentry-box, and provided with some kind of
stamped pellet, the forgery of which would, no doubt, be
made an offence. Well, the vote is at length given. He
(Mr. Brougham) was supposing all this while, that not-
withstanding all his promises to his landlord, and the can-
didate and his friends, the elector intended to give his vote
against the man to whom he made the promise. The vote
was given, and against his promise. Well, he went after-
wards to the candidate—congratulated him upon his pros-
pect of success, nos failing to add, that his vote was one of
the items which contributed to increase the prospect. But
then see the moral—see how far the concealment of what
was done could be continued—how far the knowledge of
it could be kept from the landlord, to secure whose interest
in retaining him in his form he had made the promise.
Nobody could see what passed in the sentry-box, or how
the stamped pellet was disposed of. But were there no
such things as conversation amongst friends going to
church or coming from it, or at the club, or at the ale-
house, I,r it was barely possible that an elector might visit
such a place. Was nothing of the nature of the vote to
he allowed to transpire? Was a man to keep such a
watch and guard over his words and actions for three
years, until the next election came, that no mortal could
discover what he did ? He must not tell it to his wife—
(A laugh)—or his child ; he must keep it locked up from
his bosom friend—he must not broach it to his pot com-
panion, but be as dumb as the tankard which they had
emptied between them—(A laugh)—and this state of
silence must be observed for three years ; thus far the
elector ; now bow far was this concealment to be operated
upon by the candidate. He had already found out that
he was unsuccessful, that where he had been promised five
hundred votes he had not got fifty, the seed giving back
ose for ten, instead of yielding ten for one as a good
hnebandman had a right to expect. Inquiries were set
en foot as to where the deficiency was. It might be a mis-
take of the poll clerks : the poll books were examined, and
all was right still. Then the Lord Johns and Sir Roberts
who had promised their interest were questioned, but the
Lord Johns and Sir Roberts insisted that it could not be
amongst their tenants, for they had all promised, and had
all no doubt religiously kept their words. Each de-
fended his own- tallies. But one had not voted for every
tally promised. Suspicions were excited, and some of the
voters were questioned. The man so questioned had only
one of three anwers to give : he must say that he voted
against the candidate, by which he was sure to lose his
farm ; or be must refuse to say how be voted, by which
his loss of the farm would be equally certain, for the re-
fusal would naturally enough be construed into an unwil-
lingness to confess that he had voted the wrong way ; or
he must insist and solemnly call God to witness that he
bad voted as he hid promised—a course which would not
Send much to self-congratulation, or to a comfortable feel-
ing within himself, if he had any feeling at all. But even
this would not completely lull suspicions; there would
still be the watchings and questionings of friends and of
agents--for no act that could be framed could prevent
these—and in the course of these something would turn
up to fix the suspicions on which bad landlords would be
ready to net against their tenants.—(" Hear, hear," from
)Jr. O'Connell. )—His Hon. and Learned Friend called,
" hear, hear," as if this mention of bad landlords was not
to the point ; why it was on the assumption of bad land-
lords who would visit the refusal to vote for them or their
tenants, that the necessity of vote by ballot was at al: de-
feaded,—( Hear, hear.)---The bad landlord would act
upon the suspicions ; and the snore so, as there being
only 50 votes where 500 had been promised, the chance was
ten to one that any one of the 500, who said he kept his
word, was stating a falsehood.—(Hear, hear.) Examples
would then be made of a few, and what would be the re-
sult?—only that next election a vast number would not
vote at all. Some even of those who had kept their word
would take that as the surest way to prove that they were
not in the pay of the opposite party. The landlord would
compel others whom be strongly suspected not to vote, as
the only way of preventing their accession to the other
side; or he might persuade some of those whom he knew,
if they voted at all, would vote against him, to pair off
with those whom he suspected, and thus deprive his ad-
versary of the whole. But was there no ether way of dis-
cevering—of coming at the fact of how a voter had kept
his word ? If, in voting against his promise, he acted for
his principles, he would be likely to make it known for the
sake of those principles ; if from friendship, he would pro-
bably tell it to gratify his friend ; or if he gave it from
motives of interest, nothing was less likely than that he
should conceal it, for the attainment of the object would
render the disclosure useful, and in this way the secret
would come out, and the offended landlord at last get at
it, and the visitation upon him, which the vote by ballot
was intended to avert, would follow.—(Hear, bear.) But
was this the only evil which resulted from this system ?
Was there not a far worse remaining behind ? Was not
all this study at concealment of a solemn promise violated—
this long watching and guard over a man's words and
action', SO as constantly to appear that which he was
uot—tending to make him lead the life of a hypocrite—
that character of whom it was so justly and eloquently
said that his life was one continued lie.—(Cheers.)—
What could be expected from a man who had deceived
those who had trusted him, who from one election
to the other was obliged to keep a constant watch
on his words, lest, in an unguarded moment, he
should betray the secret, the discovery of which
would not be more injurious to his interest than
fatal to his character. What must he think of the opinion
of those who could believe that a man, who was for years
nay, even for months or weeks—habitually false on one
subject which was dear to him, could be true on all others ?
Such an opinion was founded in utter ignoranceof the human
mind ; false such a man was, and false he must be until
human nature became totally changed, or until men's opi-
nions of each other were totally subverted.—(Cheers.)—
Thus the ballot would have but little efficiency, and that
little would be most dearly purchased. He perfectly con-
curred in the general views of the Hon. and Learned Gent.
—he admitted the principle of Parliamentary Reform on
which his motion was grounded, he was desirous of seeing
the defects of the Constitution amended ; but he was equally
desirous to enjoy the inestimable benefits conferred by a
limited monarchy, the blessings of which they were daily
experiencing. Encumbered with certain drawbacks and
difficulties it unquestionably was, but with all its imperfec-
tions it was acknowledged to be the happiest form of go-
vernment which the country could enjoy.—(Cheers.)—He
wished to preserve unimpaired the advantages which he
was happy in the ability to appreciate,---he was unwilling
to expose so valuable a system to the risk of sudden change,
—of a violent shock, which might endanger what he de-
sired to perpetuate ; but no man was more anxious to see
its blemishes removed, and there was no blemish easier of
removal than that which his Noble Friend, in common
with all the reformers, would take away, there was no
greater perfection than that which his Noble Friend endea-
voured to add. The great wealth, the enormous popula-
tion, the undoubted loyalty, and above all, the immense
diffusion of knowledge among the people, together with the
increased capacity which follows from an improved state of
society, surely entitled those towns to a somewhat greater
share in the management of their affairs, than in other
times, and under circumstances so different, they had borne.
This was his.frank and deliberate opinion he was not a
cash or a wholesale innovator, but would agree only to

such temperate reform as could not compromise the inte-
grity of the Constitution.—(Cheers.)
Mr. O'CONNELL rose to reply amidst a general call of
" Question." He commenced with objecting, that'
debate had turned rather on what the Noble Lord had pro-
phesied, that on what he hail moved. It was any thing
but fair to meet such a question as was involved in his
motion by a mere side-wind. He complained that any
professed reformer should have met him otherwise than
by a direct and manly negative or assent. For his own
part, be the proposer of Reform whom he might, he would
vote along with him, as he had the cause too much at
heart to be deterred by mere objections to details. There
was, however, no denial of the charge of Parliamentary
corruption and abuse, no denial of the trafficking in bo-
roughs, of their having been bought and sold. Parties,
it would appear, were anxious to protect fruits of corrup-
tion, while they did not pretend to deny its existence.
The Hon. and Learned Member for Knaresborough had
hinted that the Monarchy might be endangered if the
question of Reform were insisted on to its whole extent ;
but he could not allow that it was based on such rotten and
unstable ground as Parliamentary corruption. In France,
the system of voting by ballot had been attended with
success, and therefore it was that he had proposed its in-
troduction amongst ourselves. The Hon. and Learned
Member would prevent people from being hypocrites by
making them slaves. In conclusion, he should only say,
that those who differed from him in details alone, ought
to agree in giving him leave to bring in the Bill.
Mr. BROUGHAM stated in explanation, that the Hon.
and Learned Member for Clare had entirely misunderstood
him, if he supposed that he could countenance the enslave-
ment of freeholders, for the purpose of saving them from
hypocrisy. Slavery was itself the prolific source of hypo-
crisy, and every other evil that could debase or demoralize
the human character.

The House then divided on Mr. O'CoNNELL's motion—

Ayes
Noes
Motion lost by a majority of —3o6
There was a second division on the motion of Lord J.
RUSSELL, " That it is expedient to extend the elective
franchise."

Ayes
Noes
Majority —96
The otter Orders of the Day having been disposed of,
le House adjourned at Half-past Three o'clock.

SPIRIT OF THU PUBLIC JOURNALS.

The papers which we present this day on the affairs of
Greece and Prince Leopold, exceed in interest those which
we have published h?fore, inasmuch as the result of an
important affair fixes the attention more than the previous
details. Two communications from the Count Capo
d'lstriss inform the Prince in strong terms of the difficul-
ties of that situation, which he finally declines accepting;
but his Royal Highness, we presume, did not propose going
to Greece in the expectation of reposing en a bed of roses.
With respect to the misunderstanding which has sprung
up between him and Ministers, we think it should appear,
in order that his Royal Highness may stand blameless,—

that when he accepted the Sovereignty he was ignorant
that Acarnania was to be given up, (and that this should
appear is impossible, from the document we published yes-
terday, announcing at once the acceptance of the Sove-
reignty, and the acknowledgment by the Prince of the
Aspropotamos as the frontier.) This, then, not appear-
ing, surely Ministers may be excused if they express some
surprise that his Royal Highness had changed his mind.
But the letters of Count Cipo d'lstrias arrived in the
interval ; and though this would not have shaken a firm
mind from its purpose, if other and private motives had
not operated, yet they do present a lamentable view both
of the present state of Greece, and of what are likely to
be the feelings of the nation if Acarnania be given up.
General Church and Count Capo d'lstrias are both agreed
upon this hitter point ; and for our own parts we wish the
matter were re-considered.— Times.

The additional papers relating to Greece were laid on

the table of the House of Lords last night, but being
printed copies, and it being contrary to the established
practice of the House to lay before them printed copies of
papers for which an Address to his Majesty had been
moved, they were withdrawn. It was stated by the Earl
of Aberdeen, in answer to a question from Lord Durham,
that " the extreme anxiety evinced by the Noble Lord
for the most ample information, bad induced him to lay
on the table every letter that had passed between him and
his Royal Highness Prince Leopold, except such as he had
the honour of receiving from his Royal Highness marked
private.' The first paper was a letter from himself to
Prince Leopold, dated the 31st of January. The Memo-
rial of the Senate of Greece was the last." We presume
that the following letter, communicating definitively the
resignation of Prince Leopold—the letter to which Lord
Aberdeen alluded as having been received late on Friday
night—is one of the papers produced last night. We are
confident that no person possessed of the most moderate
share of understanding, can read the letter of the Prince
of the 21st of May, without being sensible that Lord
Aberdeen, in his speech of Monday last, did great injus-
tice to his Royal Highness. The purport of Lord Aber-
deen's speech was, that Prince Leopold, after obtaining
every thing for which he had stood out, and when Minis-
ters had deemed themselves warranted in stating to Par-
liament that " the final arrangements were only delayed
in consequence of negociations still pending upon points of
minor importance," which points he afterwards declared,
" only related to the forms of the loan," suddenly turned
round on Ministers with " fresh ground of hesitation."
Now, these " fresh grounds of hesitation" were, it appears,
very old grounds ; for, in the letter of the 21st May, the
Prince says, speaking of the communications from Greece,
" the whole clearly proves to the undersigned that the
real and unbiassed opinion of the Greek Senate and people
is firmly and irrevocably hostile to the decisi,ms of the
Allied Powers. , • . The undersigned does not con-
ceive it consistent with his character and feelings to sub-
mit to be thus forced on an unwilling people, and to be
connected in their minds with a diminished territory, the
abandonment of their brethren in arms, and the evacuation
of their lands and houses, from which hitherto the Turks
have never expelled them, but by a temporary incursion.
These results the undersigned always apprehended ; in his
communication with the First Lord of the Treasury, of the
9th of February, he protested against going out to govern
the Greeks, in pursuance of a Treaty which might also
lead to the bloodshed and murder of their brethren. He
objected to the new boundaries as weak and insecure in a
military point of view, and claimed for the Greeks the
right of opposing his nomination. . . . . Again,
in his Memorandum of the Sth of March, he expressed
_ .

himself in equally decisive terms ; asserted that it would
be necessary to conquer the ceded provinces from the
Greeks, in order to give them to the Turks, and that
the new Sovereign could not begin his reign by measures
of police, in order to make the Greeks abandon their
own homes." Anil yet Lord Aberdeen had the
hardihood to declare, that after all but points of
minor importance had been settled, fresh grounds of
hesitation sprung up in the mind of his Royal Highness !
We can understand how his Lordship was led to speak in
this manner. He was, to speak in homely terms, in a
cleft stick. The Prince, on the 15th, had communicated
to him that he was determined not to be forced on the
Greeks. His Lordship, who is understood to be a second
Metternich, at least by himself, thought he might count
on his success in overcoming the determination of Prince
Leopold, and on the 16th, boldly took it upon hint to
assert, in his place in the House of Lords, that nothing re-
mained to be arranged but points of minor importance.
He probably thought, too, that after such a positive decla-
ration, the Prince would not dare to gainsay him, and
thereby expose himself to the hostility of the Ministry.
However, the Prince was not to be out-manoeuvred in this
way ; and then came the task of reconciling the declara-
tion of the 6th of May with the resignation of the Prince.
Fresh grounds of hesitation had sprung up in the mind of
his Royal Highness—points of minor importance bad, by
some strange hallucination, become formidable in his eyes—
' these minor points being merely the commencing his reign
with cutting the throats of the beat and most valuable of his
subjects, the very men, too, who had invited him! Such are
the contradictions into which men plunge, who having made
one false step are determined to go on. Prince Leopold
might allowably enough even solicit the sovereignty of
Greece, when he conceived that he might contribute to
the regeneration of that interesting people ; but it does
not follow that he was bound to take the sovereignty when
he knew that the first exercise of it would be to perform
the part of executioner of the allies. His language in the
letter of the 21st is equally creditable to his judgment and
his feelings. " The undersigned is thus placed in this
painful position in consequence of his nomination being
by the same act connected with these compulsory mea-
sures. His first act as a Sovereign will have to be, either
to compel his own subjects, by force of foreign arms, to
submit to the cession of their estates and properties to
their enemies ; or to join with them in resisting or evad-
ing a part of that very treaty which places him on the
throne of Greece." Lord Aberdeen probably counted a
good deal on the readiness of the public to believe that re-
cent circumstances bad really produced the change in the
Prince's sentiments. The Prince's letter of the 21st is,
however, more than justified by the observations of Gene-
ral Church, published by Mr. W. Horton. His conduct

LONDON,
SATURDAY EVENING, MAY 29, 1830.

HIS MAJESTY'S HEALTH.

The following is the Bulletin issued this day-
-- " Windsor Castle, May, 29.
" The KING has passed a tranquil night, but his MA-
JESTY'S symptoms have undergone no change.
(Signed) " HENRY HALFORD.
" M. J. TIERNEY."

The Duke of WELLINGTON left town this morn-
ing for Windsor Castle.

It is confidently asserted, that the Government
will be defeated on the approaching division on the
Forgery Bill. Many Members, who, on Monday
last, hesitating between their objections to the Bill
and their allegiance to the Ministry, did not vote at
all, will, it is said, out of deference to the wishes of
their constituents, support Sir JAMES MACINTOSH'S
second Amendment, and it will not be deprived, as
on the last occasion, of the support of the Members
who were attending the Westminster Dinner. We
confidently hope Sir R. PEEL will see the expe-
diency of yielding, if not to the principle, at least to
the strong expression of opinion which has been
manifested against this measure. The example of
Lord LIVERPOOL on the QUEEN'S Trial, is one
which affords a good precedent to Ministers in the
present instance—where the majority was so small.

Lisbon Papers to the 23d instant have been re..
ceived ; they contain no news. The Correio of
Oporto, contains an article attacking the Regency

of Terceira.

By the French Papers of Wednesday, we learn
that the Expedition sailed for Algiers on the after-
noon of the 25th—Tuesday last :

" The Illoniteur says, in reference to the rumour circulated
yesterday respecting disturbances having arisen in Normandy—
, The statement is incorrect, if it is not made with a malicious
intention. No incendiary has been set at liberty. One man
under accusation had effected his escape, but he was retaken,
and again put into the hands of justice. None of the troops
sent thither have had occasion to resort to arms for their own
defence.'
" It is reported that one of the telegraphs in the line frolt Cher.
bourg to Paris has been set on fire and destroyed.