The Sun.
London, England, 1863-06-06 00:00:00

had conducted the asylum, and they had called for the re•

moval of both these officers. The Royal commissioners had
not enforced the recommendation of the ladies' committee,
and seven of the ladies had resigned in consequence. His
right hon. friend had said that he (Lord St. Leonards) had
taken up the question very warmly becanse his daughter
was one of the ladies' committee. Probably he had taken
up the matter warmly. It was his habit when ha felt
strongly to speak warmly, but his interest in the asylum
was of older date than his daughter's connection with the
lathes' committee. He had been one of the Royal commis-
sioners from the first, and he had been chairman of the
executive committee for two years. Having recited the
complaints which the ladies had made against the manage-
ment of the lady superintendent and the chaplain,in causing
a girl to be placed in solitary confinement, where she died,
in causing a girl of 16 to be whipped with a birch rod, in
sending girl to be mesmerised, and in permitting girls to go
to London without proper care, his lordship said that he
still retained the same opinion upon all these matters. BLit
. as he and the ladies' committee had been over-ruled, he at
once submitted, and subsequently he had met and acted
towards the chaplain and the lady superintendent precisely
as if nothing had occurred. He considered that to be one
of the duties of subordination. He wished to ask the noble
duke whether any steps had been taken to obtain a new
committee of ladies, for he thought the asylum ought to be
always wider the control of such a committee.
The Duke of NEWCASTLE was sure his noble and
learned friend did not expect him to enter into the per-
sonal matters to which he had referred as being in dispute
between him and the right hon.gentleman (Sir J. Paking-
ton.) As to the question of his noble and learned friend
he (the Duke of Newcastle) was not a member of
the executive committee of the asylum. He was only one of
the royal commissioners. He could therefore only say that
of the 12 ladies who formed the original committee five con-
tinued to act, and ho believed they visited individually from
time to time the asylum. (Lord St. Leonardo shook his
head.) His noble and learned friend shook his head as if h
denied the statement. Well, that only proved that his noble
friend knew more about the affair than he (the Duke of
Newcastle) did, and therefore could rather give than receive
information from him. (A laugh.) However, all he could
say was, that the executive committee would meet on Tues-
day next to consider what steps should be taken to increase
the number of the ladies' committee.
The matter was then allowed to drop, and the house ad-
journed at 20 minutes to 8 o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS—Last Evening.
The SPEAKER took the chair at the usual hour.
LISBURN ELECTION.—BRIBERY AND CORRUP-
TION.—A VOID ELECTION.
Mr. EVANS brought up the report of the committee
Appointed to try the merits of the petition against the return
John Doherty Barbour. The committee declared that he
was
not duly elected a burgess to serve in the present
Zll2lxnent; that the last election was a void
7L and further, that Mr. John Doherty Bar-
"Y himself and his agents, were guilty of
d treatin • • in-
whoneed, by tnie
0.
~g , that a person named Come was
theft gaivula agents to personate his father, a voter,
Bannister ttalbeer lost and that another voter named
report was a
The payment of £5O.
The following billsthe tabl
Sudbury, and y read a third•
wood B (mall Bridtm
a time :—Ashbourne,
The ril—Stirlingia Estate m %touter and Calling-
The Irrigation and
Canal
Company Bill was
read a second time.

PETITIoNS.
By Sir W. threeMputlizes.ho from somereetehi„,
closing of the on the Sabbath. 4ganst the
MADAGASCAR
On the motion of Mr. LEFROY'
extracts of papers relating to the co'n 7—. as for cop- or
King Radama of Madagascar on hiagrawa,„„i-ulan..t°l7._ blissileaon to
papers relating to the
in 1861; and, of correspondence andape- the throne
mission to Madagascar in 1862 for thit
ing the portraits and presents sent by moat et Present-
oat Gracious
Majesty to King Radama, was agreed to.
COTTON.
Mr. CAIRD postponed his motion until this day week,
in consequence of the indisposition of the Secretary of state
for India

BELGRADE.
Mr. D. GRIFFITH gave notice that on the motion for
going into Committee of Supply, on the 3d July, he should
ask a question with respect to the siege of Belgrade.
NATIONAL E DUCATION (IRELAND).
Major O'REILLY gave notice that on going into supply
on the estimates for national education in Ireland, he should
call attention to the large amount proposed to be expended,
and propose a reduction.
ROYAL VICTORIA PATRIOTIC ASYLUM.
Mr. TORRENS asked Colonel Wilson Patten, whether
therea were any vacancies in the asylum at Wandsworth ; if
o
what number : And, further, he wished to state whether
it Was the rule or intention to fill up any vacancies in the
asylum solely with children
Crimea, to of soldiers who died in the
sidUaiOa of the children of those Who,

having served in the Crimea, have since died on service
with their regiments in India or elsewhere.

Col. W. PATTEN replied that there were at this time
37 vacancies in the asylum, which were caused by the neces-
sity that had arisen for providing a temporary hospital.
The institution could afford accommodation f 00 children,
and the full complement would shortly be placed on the
foundation. The design of the institution w s for the re-
ception of children of soldiers who had died in the Crimea
during the Russian war, either in action, from their
wounds, or disease. They had the first claim. It was
under the consideration of the Commissioners whether it
would not be well, as vacancies occurred, to admit the chil-
dren of soldiers who had died in various parts of the world
in the service of their country. In the end all the claims

of soldiers' children would be met.
THE COTTON DISTRICTS—UNEMPLOYED MAR..
RIED WOMEN—GOVERNMENT WORKS.
Mr. FERRAND asked the President of the Poor Law

Board whether he had received the return of the unem-

ployed unmarried women in the cotton factory districts,
and when the works sanctioned by the Government engi-
neer was likely to be commenced ?

Mr. VILLIERS replied that he had no authority to
compel such a return, but the local committee were en-
deavouring to collect the required information, and he hoped
shortly to be in possession of the figures. When the Go-
vernment works were commenced would entirely depend
upon the legislation of that house.
lONIAN ISLANDS.
Mr. D. GRIFFITH asked the First Lord of the Treasury,
whether the G'ivernment intended to complete the transfe-
rence of the lonian islands to the possession of any other
power, without any further reference to the approval or
consent of Parliament.
Lord PALMERSTON replied that the lonian islands
were erected into an independent State and put under the
protection of Great Britain by treaty—not by aot of Parlia-
ment. If the islands were transferred it would likewise be
effectuated by treaty, but all the particulars would be duly
laid before Parliament. _

Mr. S. FITZGERALD trusted that all the communica-
- - -

tions with foreign papers would be laid before the house,
ao that the house might see whether or no there was any
danger of disturbing our present relations with foreign
Powers.

Lord PALMERSTON apprehended that no danger
would arise to our friendly relations with foreign Powers.
As he had said all the papers would be laid before Parli-
ment.

COURTS OF JUSTICE BUILDING (MONEY)

BILL

Mr. LYGON asked the First Commissioner of Works
when he would move for leave to introduce this bill ?

Mr. COWPER—Probably some day next week.

EDUCATION.

Mr. F. S. POWELL asked the Vice-President of the
Committee of Council on Education when the report of
Council onEducation would be distributed ; and whether it
was the intention of Government to propose the vote for
education before members had hail ample time for consi-

deration of the report ?
Mr. LANE replied that the report would be presented in
the course of next week. In the present state of public
business he could not postpone the bill, but ample time
would be given for its consideration.
GREECE.

Lori J. MANNERS asked the First Lord of the
Treasury whether the vote of the lonian Chambers upon
the proposed cession of the Seven Islands to Greece
was to be taken before the consent of the Powers of Europe,
assembled in Congress, to that cession had been obtained;
whether the Congress was to be confined to the Powers who
were signatories of the Treaties of 1815, or whether it was
to comprise all the Powers of Europe, including Turkey ;
Whether, in the event of Turkey not being invited to at-
tend the congress, any communication would be addressed
to the Sublime Porte on the subject : And whether the
consent of all, or only of the majority of the assembled in
congress, would be required to authorise the cession?
Lord PALMERSTON replied that the islands could not
be ceded without the consent of the Great Powers who
were parties to the treaty. Only those who were parties
to the treaty would have a voice in the matter. Turkey was
not one of those Powers ; and would, therefore, have no
voice in the proposed cession.

Lord J. MANNERS asked, in the event of there being a
difference of opinion between the Great Powers if the
opinion of a majority would be adopted ?
Lord PALMERSTON replied that the question included
matters of international law. If the Greeks themselves
were unanimous in the matter he did not apprehend that
any of the great powers would offer any objections.
DAY SITTINGS.

Lord PALMERSTON intimated that they were ap-
proaching the time when morning sittings would be indis-
pensable. (Oh, oh, and hear, hear.) He proposed that
the house should sit on Tuesday in order to take the Irish
Fisheries Bill.
PUBLIC BUILDINGS IN THE METROPOLIS.
On the motion for going into committee of supply,
Mr. B. COCHRA.NE rose to move that, for the sake of
obtaining greater unity of design in our publie build-
ings, and with a view to the efficiency and economy
of the public service, it is desirable a permanent Com-
missioner of Public Works and Buildings, or other officer,
should be appointed to the :present Board of Works. The
hon. gentleman traced the mismanagement and extrava-
gant cost of our public buildings and statues to the want of
a permanent officer of the kind suggested.
Mr. COWPER entered upon a lengthy explanation.
He admitted that in the past there had been a good deal of
mismanagement and much waste of money in consequence
of a false economy as in the case of the National Gallery.
He explained the course he adopted during his term of
office, and indicated the improvements he had introduced.
Sir J. SHELLEY supported the motion, and defended
the report of the committee, which recommended the ap-
pointment of a permanent commissioner of works, and that
on one of the junior lords of the Treasury should devolve
the duties of the office in that house. They had a perma-
nent under secretary at the Home-office-- an arrangement
which worked well, and he could not see why a junior lord
of the Treasury should not be able to represent the Office of
Works in that house, by the advice and assistance of a per-
manent officer, who would not be changeable with the Go-
vernment. This was the course which gentlemen took in
the management of their own properties; they appointed a
person permanently to take charge of them ; and why
should not the same rule be applied to the management of
the parks and the public property.
6ir S. M. PETO said that, having been a contractor for
public works in foreign countries, he was able to speak of
the manner in which those works were carried out. In
France the Minister of Public Works was the Minister of
Public Works ; in this country the Minister of Public
Works was no Minister at all. (Hear, hear.) He would be
sorry the Minister of Public Works was not a member of
that house; for he thought it was of great advantage that
he should be present and take part in discussions relative to
his department. But what they wanted was that which
existed in France, a board of able and practical men in as-
sociation with the Minister of Public Works, capable of
directing him to right conclusions, and preventing the con-
stant disappointments which gave them so much grief, and
which made their public works a bye word. (Hear.) He had
executed various works for the Government of France, and
he had found the estimates so well considered, and the plans
and all the details so well sifted, that he had been able to
adopt the estimate of the Minister, and he had never found
himself a loser in any one instance; and the consequence
was that in France the public works were carried out upon
the estimate. But no public work in this country was ever
carried out within the estimate. That condemned the whole
principle. They had a remarkable instance of it in the con.
struction of harbours of refuge, which were carried out
under the direction of men who, although they might be
clever nautical men, knew nothing about the administra-
tion of public works. How were these things done in
France? If a dock was to be constructed, the Admiralty
had nothing to do with the construction of it; the Minister
of Public Works had the proper estimates and plans made
out, and the works would be done for the sum specified ;
and they would not find that where £200,000 or:£300,000 had
been asked, the work ultimatelycost a million. (Hear.) What
they wanted was, that the Ministerof Public Works should
be responsible for all the public works in the country, and
that he should lay before them estimates prepared by his
board of associates, who should be responsible to him for
ltahmeiernctoarbrleecetxnceesss. sesSiuncthhaenesatrirmanatgeesmfoerntpwuboluliedwporrekvsewnht the
had brought so much discredit on the administration. The
rule to which he referred was equally in force at Vienna
osuul:lronunevdeerdhathvee
at
hnedi
rßdeerpl a
ri n ,t
ma se
nwt eol
of
minister with men who were practically conversant with
pasubinlicPwaroirsk;s anundtitlhtehyewy
the nature of the duties. (Hear, hear.
Lord J. MANNERS, while concurring in the criticisms
passed by his hon. friend on certain public works, did not
think that the remedy proposed by him would effect any
beneficial change. It had been suggested that there should
be a permanent officer attached to the department of works,
is Order to ensure the efficiency of its administration; but
eihm:tentnancePtharledlt
teottitlythoe.frehawyrugethuceh
haenadoffiofce
trhale readyin
depart-
lawnes
ineiaobot:endiencep-_aroseuv;:manillitudasattiaertcooedfnsit;ei the case of the poor-
the board in thrt" hary years there was no representative of
consequence wras.ththaastepgtorttoeinat
w board
was
mad: but. sinee,the president of the po
wn
or-
that
thoofusaefritehnedlt: spirit aria"'
had
been
The mischief whicerhatittmaal had
given
genera
and their taking exoepti
g:n7tehditrahwisnauppoort.
among those who
motion of his hon. frie:dl"° mch °that's pl
plained of, he could not •
The motion was then
INDIA—THE ATTACK•
Sir J. HA Y postponel his moti
day three weeks, at which thno he hoOpned held thcneiloeffionice.,
mainly satisfaction.
owing
to
would not remedy the AB
the
ON TRlNGtaitt.
t.h subject t° that
India would be able to be in his place. e SeeretarY 1
4 r
ORDNANCE SURVEY.
Mr, BAILLIE called the attention of the house to a rep t
recently presented by Sir H. James of the progress oft e
ordnance survey of the United Kingdom. The hon. mere-

ber expressed his opinion that there had been alreadytt
much discussion on the subject, and his only object
making the motion was to obtain a statementrrom the Go-
vernment as to the course they intended to adopt, With

regard to England, they had a complete map on the 1-inch
scale, which was perhaps the most convenient; but for
other purposes it might be necessary to have a larger one,
and the most advantageous would be a 25-inch scale. They
had also two complete maps for Ireland—one on the 1-inch
scale, a second on the 6-inch scale, and a third upon a 1-inch
scale with all the physical features, was in progress. But
what was the case as regarded Scotland ? Of the 30,000
square miles of Scotland only 6,438, or little more than one •
fifth, had ben surveyed and published upon the 6-inch
scale; and only 4,022, or less that one-seventh, had been
executed upon the 1-inch scale.
Mr. E. ELLICE corroborated the statement of the hon.
member, and said that Scotland had good reason to be dis-
satisfied at the manner in which she was treated with regard
to the ordnance survey. Scotland had been 40 years wait-
ing for a map, but it was now proposed to make a second
survey of England, which would have the effect of postpon-
ing the completion of the Scottish survey to an indefinite
period.
Mr. DODSON thought that the demand made on behalf
of Scotland was like the fable of the dog in the manger.
The low parts of Scotland had been surveyed, and what
remained were the Highlands. During half the year the
Highlands could not be surveyed, owing to the severity of
the weather there; but they were called upon to do nothing
in England until the whole of Scotland was completed. He
trusted the Chancellor of the Exchequer would not pledge
himself to such a course.
Mr. FINLAY said it was a mistake to suppose that all
the low ground of Scotland had been surveyed.
The matter then dropped.
THE TRINITY BOARD ELECTRIC LIGHT FOR
LIGHTHOUSES.
Lord LOVAINE called attention to the correspondence
between the Trinity Board and the Board of Trade, and
asked the President of the Board of Trade whether, in his
opinion, the experience of the electric light for the past two
years was not sufficient to wart ant its adoption at Portland ?
Mr. M. GIBSON said whatever power was exercised by
the Board of Trade with reference to lighthouses, and the
mode of illuminating lighthouses, was in accordance with
the provisions of the Merchant Shipping Act. But that act
had given them no authority to incur expenditure in the
experiment of lighting lighthouses. The duty of the Board
of Trade was simply to control expenditure; and it was no
part of their province to force upon the Trinity Corporation
any expenditure of which they themselves did not approve.
Some time since the Trinity Corporation proposed the re-
constructing the Portland Lighthouse, and the Board of
Trade suggested that before the work was undertaken it
might be well clearly to ascertain whether Portland Light-
house was not fitted to receive the electric light, and also to
take care that the light itself had a full trial. The Trinity
Corporation decided that for the present it would not be right
to adopt the electric light at Portland, and in coming to that
conclusion they had the assistance of the advice of that most
able man, Mr. Faraday. As for himself, if he had an opi-
nion upon the subject, he should say that the trial which
took place at Dungeness was most satisfactory—(hear)—
and that, too, was the opinion of Mr. Faraday. The noble
lord might rely upon it that no unnecessary obstacles would
be thrown in the way of the adoption of the light, but
then reasonable time must be allowed to ascertain if the
invention could be safely applied.
Sir J. PAKINGT ON having listened very closely to the
statement of the right hon. gentleman, was nevertheless
quite unable to ascertain what were his intentions. He
could not avoid saying that the official experience of the
right hon. gentleman had made him the most perfect speci-
men of Ministerial caution ever heard in that house. (A
laugh.) The generalities of the right hon. gentleman were
really quite bewildering. He said that he was anxious to
obtain the aid of scientific experience in the matter. Well,
it surely was not to the Trinity Corporation that he
should go for scientific experience. Mr. Faraday was in
favour of the light—and if the right hon. gentleman
wanted further time for investigation, what time would
satisfy him ? The Portland Light wanted repairs, and so
also did the " Start" Light, and it became an important
question whether the commerce of the country ought Ito
be any longer deprived of the advantages of a great dis-
covery for reasons so unsubstantial.
Lord H. VANE drew a more favourable augury from
the statement of the President of the Board of Trade than
the right hon. gentleman opposite. It was true, the Trinity
Corporation had shown no great alacrity in the matter;
still, they were at the head of the navigation of the country,
and unless they took the lead, it was impassible for the
Board of Trade to do anything. His right hon. friend how-
ever, had admitted that he himself saw the advantage of
the light, and therefore it was to be hoped that before any
very long time the Trinity Corporation would be brought
round to the same opinion.
Mr. P. HENNESSY read extracts from the report of
Mr. Faraday, to prove that the opinion of that gentleman
was unmistakably in favour of the new apparatus.
The subject then dropped.
THE CASE OF SERGEANT-MAJOR LILLEY.
Mr. FORTESCUE rose to call attention to the circum-
stances attending the death, after four weeks' imprison-
ment, of Regimental Sergeant-Major Lilley of the 6th
Dragoons, at Mhow, in India, on the 25th of May, 1862;
and to the imprisonment at the same time, for a still
longer period, of Troop Sergeant-Majors Duval and Wake-
field, of the same regiment, without either of the three
having been brought to trial, or any formal charge having
been preferred against them ; and to ask whether the
commanding officer under whose authority those things
took place, was still to be left in command of the regi-
ment. The hon. member at the outset disclaimed all inten-
tion of making an attack upon the Commander-ir-Chief,
whose abilities and character he held in the highest respect.
He was quite sure that if the action of his Royal Highness
had not been in the first instance interfered with by the
strange course taken by the high military authorities in
India, not a day would have been lost in insuring that ample
justice was done. The hon. member then recapitulated the
well-known history of the case : the irregular arrest of the
three sergeants by order of the commanding officer of the
regiment (Col. Crawley), on the eve of their appearance as
witnesses at a
,court-martial which was being held on the
commanding officer, in consequence of charges brought
against him by Captain Smale, the paymaster of the regi-
ment ; their being kept in most rigorous confinement, with-
out—as had been admitted by his Royal Highness the Com-
mander-in-Chief—a shadow of evidence being brought for-
ward against them, a confinement from which one of them
—Sergeant -Major Lilley—was only released by death, and
anther to find himself lodged in an asylum as a raving lu-
natic. On the death of Lilley no inquest was held, and the
surgeon reported that his death was caused by apoplexy, in-
duced by the painful circumstances in which he was placed.
The hon. member then described the place where the sergeant
was confined, and narrated all the circumstances attending
the death of his wife, which have long since been in posses-
sion of the public. It was too late to offer reparation to
Sergeant Lilley, for the poor fellow was dead, but it was not
too late to punish the man who had been the cause of his
sufferings. (Loud cries of "Hear, hear.") The hon. mem-
ber next adverted to the memorandum recently published
by his Royal Highness the Commander-in-Chief, and ex.
pressed his astoniehm, nt at the strange leniency which had
been exhibited towards Colonel Crawley in permitting him
to remain in command of the regiment. In conclusion, he
stated that it was the fixed intention of the relatives of Ser-
geant Lilley to indict Col. Crawley for manslaughter in case
that officer ever put his foot in England.
MI. CONINGHA3I said that although the question of
Colonel Crawley's conduct had been already within the last
few days under the consideration of the house, the memo-
randum just issued by his Royal Highness the Commander-
in-Chief completely altered the aspect of the case. The
Horse Guards, by condoning the conduct of Col. Crawley,
had made themselves responsible for that conduct ; and he
sincerely trusted that the full weight of the indignation of
that house would be directed against the course taken lay
his Royal Highness. Having quoted portions of the me-
morandum of his Royal Highness, the hon. member pro-
ceeded to say that if his Royal Highness could issue such a
memorandum, he was not fit to be in command of the Bri-
tish army ; for if anything could tend to sap the high spirit
which animated our soldiers, it was to see conduct such as
that of Colonel Crawley remaining uncondemned by the
heads of the army. He trusted, therefore, that when the
noble marquis rose to make his reply he would address him-
self not merely to the justification of Colonel Crawley, but
like wise to the justification of his Royal Highness the Com-
mander-in-Chief.
The Marquis of HARTINGTON having explained that
the delay which had taken place in connection with the
ordnance survey of Scotland was occasioned by the difficul-
ties attending the survey of the mountainous districts, ad-
dressed himself to the case of Sergeant-Major Lilley, and
explained that the arrests of the three sergeants had been
ordered by Colonel Crawley, on a charge of conspiracy
against himself. It could not be denied, however, that their
examination previous to arrest had been most irregularly
conducted, When they were arrested, Colonel Crawley in-
formed the major-general in charge of the Mhow district,
requesting instructions as to bringing them to trial, and
requesting also his sanction for placing them under close
arrest. With regard to the placing the sergeant-majors
under close arrest, it was added that Colonel Crawley had
been instructed that, pending the investigation, the arrest
should be closed. On the 28th of April Sir Wm, Mansfield
wrote that the evidence did not appear to substantiate the
tbeencharges against the sergeant-majors. That opinion was
chieflyo
grounded upon the fact that the sergeant-majors had
n
warned before their examination that their evidence
ht be used against them. He went on to say, however,
might
that their conduct had clearly been highly improper, and
that Sergeant-major Lilley ought to be dismissed, and he
directed that the latter should be kept in close arrest until
the end of the court-martial. Shortly afterwards, at the
beginning of May, the court-martial had been unexpectedly
adjourned in consequence of the illness of the paymaster,
Captain Smale. The sergeant-majors were kept in close
the order
arrest during the interval. On the 24th May Sergeant-major
4.:1;11eY was reported sick, and on the 25th he died. (Hoar.)
,n the 2d June Sir W. Mansfield wrote to Gen. Farrell
uuat he 1.,..,
thought the court-
ofo ger heard,i through the public papers, of the death
marti:l7o:idilletr Lilley, but that he
rimed at the death of Lill
._ ,ve been terminated shortly after the arrival
and exprmb; ZP him in close arrest arrived at Mhow,
nicated with by ate'r_uPrise that he had not been cornmu-
um also stated the regret he me-
anest. The eaemoralralTh. to obtain a release from the
VI and his reams for coxitinu-