The Sun.
London, England, 1863-06-16 00:00:00

PETITIONS.

By Mr. IVALroLE, from the University of Cambridge,
under its corporate seal, praying that no alteration might
be made in the Uniformity Act ; and by Mr. AYRTON, from
Volunteers, Tower Hamlets, against certain clauses in the
Volunteers Bill.

THE RECENT COURT MARTIAL AT MHO W.
Mr. CONINGHAM gave notice that on an early day,
on going into committee, he should call attention to the re-
cent court-martial on Mr. Smale, and move a resolution
thereon.

THE COTTON DISTRICTS.-UNEMPLOYED
OPERATIVES.

Mr. FERRAND gave notice that he should to-morrow
ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether, looking at the
distress now suffered by the artizans, he did not deem it
expedient to devote a morning sitting to the subject.

NEW TELEGRAPHIC LINE TO NORTH
AMERICA.

Mr, CAVE asked the Under-Secretary for Foreign
Affairs whether her Majesty's Government had received
information respecting an international conference, which,
according to the Jloniteur, had been opened in Paris, for
the purpose of examining into the project of a telegraphic
line from Europe to North America, via Brazil, and the
West Indies, and whether any steps had been taken for the
representation of this country at such conference ?
Mr. LAYARD replied it was quite true that there had
been such a conference. Proposals had been made to the
British Government to take part in it; but the Treasury,
looking at the engagements into which it had entered, had
not deemed it advisable to accede to the proposal.

JAPAN. •
Mr. LIDDELL asked the Under Secretary of State for
Foreign Affairs what was the precise nature of the demands
made by her Majesty's Government upon the Government
of Japan, in the shape of reparation for outrages committed
upon British subjects in that country ; and, whether there
would be any objection to state what instructions had been
sent to the British admiral on the station as to the steps
to be taken in the event of the Tycoon's refusal to comply
with those demands.

Mr. LAYARD replied that some months ago a mur-
derous attack was made on a British subject riding on a
public road, open by treaty to British residents. A Mr.
Richardson was killed, two other gentlemen were seriously
wounded, and a lady narrowly escaped, almost by a
miracle, with her life. An apology had been de-
manded, and the payment of £lOO,OOO as a penalty.
(Hear, hear, hear.) It appeared that the parties who
committed the outrage consisted of a band of persons with
whom were ass3ciated a native prince and his father. A
demand had been made that the guilty parties should be
tried, and if found guilty, executed. (Hear.) £25,000 had
also been demanded for the family of the victims of this
outrageous assault. In June last year two marines were
murdered, who were guarding the British legation, and
£lO,OOO had been demanded for their families. He did not
know whether the Government of Japan had power
to carry out the proposals, but probably the next mail would
bring definite intelligence.
NEW WRIT—LISBURN.

On the motion of Colonel TAYLOR, a new writ was ordered
to be issued.

THE PURCHASE OF THE GREAT INTERNA-
TIONAL EXHIBITION.
Lord PALMERSTON appealed to the hon. member for
Tipperary to postpone his motion, so that the discussion
on the proposed vote might not be delayed. The hon. and
learned member for King's county had put off his motion to
that day week.

The O'DONOGHUE said, after the way the noble lord
had treated the question of the Irish Church, he really did
not feel disposed to give way if he had his motion on the
paper for this evening., which was a mistake of the noble
lord's,

Mr. HENNESSY stated that he had given way on
the express understanding that he should have an oppor-
tunity of bringing on the subject of Poland this day week.
Mr. OSI3ORNE said he was a miserable dupe with re-
spect to his motion—(laughter) —for he had put it off under
the impression that ho should have Friday week, which it
appeared had been devoted to another hon. member.
The subject then dropped.
In reply to Sir H. 'WILLOUGHBY,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied
that the commissioners held the 12 acres of land free and
intact at South Kensington. The land cost £177,500.
When the partnership between the commissioners and the
Government ceased, this money advanced by the Govern-
ment was repaid—D2o,ooo in cash and £61,000 in land.
On the motion of Lord PALMERSTON, the house then
went into committee.
g,
d estimate for tho purcha
pose
Lord PALMERSTON then 6
o broughtofthe rwlafuodanard the pro..abuild.m

and for additions and alterations. He thought London
might most justly be styled the commercial capital
of the world, and hence ranked high among the
commercial centres of the world, its great size
and the crowding of its buildings tended greatly to impair
its architectural beauties. The streets were narrow and its
open places few and small. Its public buildings were not
many, and differences of opinion prevailed as to their
architectural claims to admiration. They had but few of
those palaces belonging to individuals who were to be found
is many of the small towns of the continent. There were,
it was true, Northumberland and Landsdowne houses, and
the beautiful club houses in Pall-mall. The noble lord
cited the cost of land in London and in each of the large
towns, and contended that the land would be sold to the
country at a great bargain—namely, £6,000 per acre,
whereas, if sold at this moment for building purposes, it
would realise not less than £15,000 per acre. (Hear,
hear.) The noble lord contrasted the great cost of buy-
ing the land in town for the proposed extension of
the British Museum, with the small price of the
much larger quantity at Kensington. It was proposed to
take the Patent Museum and the National Portrait Gallery
to this Exhibition. The 17 acres would cost
£120,000, the building £'Bo,ooo, and the entire altera-
tion £284,000 making a total of £1,841,000;
but it was only proposed to ask for £172,000 in 1863 and
1864, namely, £67,000 for land, £BO,OOO for the building,
and £25,000 for the repairs and extensions. A dome was a
very handsome thing. (Laughter.) Every one admired
the domes of St. Paul's and St. Peter's. The present
domes would be constructed more solidly after the
style of the generally admired dome of the British Mu-
seum. The Government did not propose to remove the
National Gallery; that, as yet, was a moot question.
The noble lord calculated that the nation would be greatly
advantaged by the purchase, and concluded by placing the
first resolution in the hands of Mr. Massey—namely,
£67,000 for the purchase.of the land in the present and next
year.

Mr. GREGORY rose to oppose the bill. He objeoted to
the removal of the collections to so great a distance, and
the drawing all our institutions into one focus. lie cone
demned the bargain in strong language, contending that the
estimates of the Government were fallacious, and. upon the
faith of counter-estimates, that the supposed cheap bargain
would involve the country in enormous expense. Why did
not the Commissioners, he asked, give up all the land ?
Bemuse they had involved themselves, or rather the public
money, in a private undertaking, the Horticultural Gardens.
He asked for more information, for plans and specifications,
before the house committed itself to the proposal, and im-
ploring the house not to make this purchase, he moved the
rejection of the vote.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said before
going to a division there were one or two points in the hon.
gentleman's speech to which he wished to refer, He thought
it a very great error to apply the terms " falsehood and job-
bery" to acts of gentlemen whose private reputation stood
high before the public, and was of more value to them than
any sum of money they were likely to get for their ser-
vices. He appealed to the house to defend the characters of
gentlemen who had no means of defending themselves
from that indiscriminate censure. The hon. gentleman
spoke of his (Mr. Gladstone's) having proposed to purchase
the building for £700,000. He had made no such proposal.
The proposal was to purchase five acres of land for about
£.50,000, and the maximum for building was about £lOO,OOO
to £450,000. The truth was they were always met by the
hon. gentleman and his friends at every step with the sug-
gestion that they were making some scarcely honest state-
ment to the house, which was afterwards to be doubled or
trebled, They must, however, go on as they had done, and
present estimates they knew could be relied upon, or they
must go upon a very loose system of making doubtful esti-
mates. As for there being £130,000 already in existence
and available for a Patent Office, or rather a Patent Mu-
seum, he knew of no such sum, and hoped the bon. gentle-
man was prepared to guarantee his statement. The Govern-
ment had the highest opinion of Mr. Hunt's estimates, and
intended to abide by them. With respect to the number of
visitors at South Kensington, and its general success, the
number of visitors to the British Museum in 1862 was
895,000, and to the South Kensington Museum 1,241,000.
(" Go back.") In 1860 the numbers were, to the South
Kensington, 604,000, and to the British Museum 611,000;
but at that time the South Kensington Museum was a com-
paratively new institution, His honourable friend put
the case before the committee as one of economy, and
said that a slight extension of the British Museum was
all that was wanted. But, in support of this
view, his honourable friend brought forward an
irresponsible opinion against the opinion of those whose
duty it was, at the express desire of the Government, to
make a responsible examination of the question. His hon.
friend said they were going to adopt the monstrous scheme
of Professor Owen. They were not proceeding upon the
monstrous scheme of Professor Owen; nor upon his re-
duced estimate of five acres instead of eight as originally
proposed—but, by taking three acres for the accommoda-
tion of the natural history collections, the Government fully
believed that by the scheme now before the committee a
saving of £300,000 or £400,000 would be effected. Was he
to understand his hon. friend as saying that a space of three
acres was an irrational or monstrous space for the accom-
modation of the natural history of this country ? If his
hon. friend did not admit this, the ground was completely
cut from his feet ; for when his noble friend said they were
purchasing for half a million what could not be got else-
where for a million, that proposition included the purchas-
ing of three acres for the natural history collection. He had
got before him an illustration of what would be required
for the purpose of natural history. He presumed that Lon-
don and England would require as much space for the pur-
pose as Massachusetts, Well. taking that to be so, let him
state a few facts. The people of Massachusetts had built in
the neighbourhood of Boston, United States, a museum for
their natural history collection. The building consisted o f
three stories, and covered two acres, which would be equal
in space to a building of two stories covering three acres.
That institution of Massachusetts had been only open two
years, and he would quote from a letter of Professor Agas
siz, whose name was better known to fame than that men-
tioned by his hon. friend, to show that, so far from such an
extent of accommodation being irrational or monstrous, it
was quite inadequate. In this letter Professor Agassiz, in
speaking of a building which had been only two years
opened, says—" Oar building is overflowing. It will be ne-
cessary for us to extend our structure within the next two
years in order not to check our progress." Under these cir-
cumstances, what were they to do? Were they to purchase five
acres near the British fSluseum for the purpose of obtaining
additional accommodation, and expend £400,000 or £500,000
upon the scheme, and a scheme, too, that would render ne-
cessary the opening of a new street into Holborn ? And
yet this was the plan which his hon. friend had not only the
courage, but also the conviction that he was holding out to
the committee a purpose of economy. (Hear.) The wants
of the public had been stated by his noble friend ; but be-
fore he sat down he would notice one or two poiUts. His
hon. friend said the estimates were fallacious ; all he could
say was that they were prepared with greater care than
those which had been placed on the other side. Was it an
exaggerated estimate to build a National Patent Museum
for £lOO,OOO, or a National Portrait Gallery for £25,000 ?
They were anxious to avoid all exaggeration, and therefore
they only put down what they believed would be the pro.
bable maximum cost, and the vote proposed now was framed
in accordance with that vote ; and his noble friend had
shown that if they were to take the estimate of responsible
instead of irresponsible persons, there would be a saving of
£300,000 or £400,000. (Cheers.) With regard to the soli-
dity of the building, that was a technical point upon which
he would not detain the committee. (Ironical cheers and
laughter,) It would be quite impossible for him to give
an adequate explanation upon the point, and he preferred
to take the opinions of the responsible persons the Govern-
ment lead consulted, (Hear, hear) But there was a do.
cument in existence, signed by two gentlemen of reputa-
tion, Mr. Baker and Mr. Wm. Fairbairn. Speaking of the
solidity of the building as constructed for the purposes of
last year—(hear and laughter)—not entering into the ques-
tion of the durability of the flooring or the roof—(laughter)
—but with respect to the walls and the general solidity of
the building, the effect of the document was that the build-
ing had been subjected to the severest testing, and that
it had proved upon all points to be more than equal to
any trial of solidity that it could be called on to bear.
(Hear.) The question was, whether they were to give
£BO,OOO for the building at South Kensington Museuni,and
' all the Government had to do was to show that this was a
wise and profitable arrangement for the public. But that
was not the question now before the committee. (Hear,
hear.) The real question before the committee had been
entirely blinked by his hon. friend. His hon. friend had
not said a word about that question. His hon. friend had
entirely blinked and evaded the practical question, whether
it was necessary for the Government, in the interest of the
public, to endeavour to obtain possession of the 17 acres at
South Kensington. (Ministerial cheers.) He believed the
Patent Museum at Washington covered a space of 11 acres.
(Great laughter.) Well, he got the fact that 8 acres of
ground would be necessary for a National Patent Museum
and a National Portrait Gallery. He would take his stand
only upon these two cases, which had been established upon
data which could not be shaken ; and he would ask his hon.
friend, as the worshipper of economy, if he was prepared to
pay £400,000 for 8 acres of ground for these two national
and important purposes, when they could get 8 acres of land
for £120,000 at South Kensington, with the buildings upon
it. (Cheers.) That was the issue the committee had to
decide, and he did not think, however sincere might be the
professions of economy on the part of his hon. friend, that
he would persuade the committee that it was economical to
refuse to purchase land upon the cheap terms they were
getting it at South Kensington. There was considerable
responsibility attaching to members of that house, For a
long time it had been observed that every posSible evil,
vacillation, uncertainty, delay, expense, and many others,
had attended the majorityof their public buildings. (Cheers.)
Th© committee hed in this instance a statement laid before
themprop posirteiopt:ehdaabyttpenieseafuplplyointed by the Government
t:aetaxamine into the case, and they had, on the other hand,
statement of high colour made by persons under a total
°liBaPprehension of the peculiar aspects of be case. The
considered, and also the