The Sun.
London, England, 1837-12-16 00:00:00

of the King of England.—( Hear, hear.) Here arose the
Zestion—was this revenue continued in the Crown for the
_ sintenance and education of the infant Prince? If the case
Were so, there was no distinction between that revenue and
the rest of the Civil Li.-2t, which was a provision for the Royal
household. If it were not, it was wrongfully continued. He
?ft, that the Prince's debts having to be paid in 1795, Sir
0110 Anson, Attorney- General for the Duchy, claimed the
arrears which had accrued du:irg the minority, and they were
found to amount to no less a sum than 233,0001. The reve-
nues of the Duchy had since that tine been considerably in-
creased. If. therefore, they were now allowed to accumulate
for
the benefit of the Queen's son, he might find himself in
possession of such a sum as 600,0001. or 700,0001. Now, he
thought that there could not be a more unfortunate circum-
11Thee for a young Prince than that upon attaining his majority
e should be entitled to receive so-large a sum as more than
half 4 million of money. Ile could not conceive a better pre-
ZiiPtion or device for educating and instructing a spendthrift
ng--( Hear.) Under these circumstances he thought that
Corn
Mon sense pointed out the course to be adopted, namely,
that those revenues should be assigned to the purpose of edu-
cating the Prince, and if they were so appropriated, he did not
7° why they should not be considered part of the sum voted
or the maintenance of the Royal Household.—( Hear. )
Lord J. RUSSELL said it was stated that this source of
revenue was attended by circumstances which in many in-
Stances were inconvenient and vexatious. It was asserted, too,
that in point of fact, greater expenses were incurred, and a
more numerous train of offices kept up than were requisite for
the proper management of the Duchy. With respect to these
Subjects we have submitted our advice, and we are authorized
to introduce 1311 s to promote the better management of these
revenues,
in order that the whole of the offices belonging to
the
m should be inquired into and altered, and a greater ze-
etrity for continued better mmagement being afforded by the
accounts being laid every year before Parliament, giving a
statement with respect to the income and disbursement of these
Duchies.
Lie thought, therefore, that so far as the statement
of his Hon- and Learned Friend regarded the evils of the pre-
sent system, herMajestv's Government had proposed a remedy
for all those which he had pointed out.--:( Hear.) Though he
lama way of his own in proceeding to remove these defects, he
Must correct them by introducing Bills and undertakine. the
Office of Ministers of the Crown for effecting that which we
assent to and pr pose. We have submitted the same proposal
Which he must make for the reform of these establishments,
should he, instead of the responsib:e Ministers of the Crown,
introduce measures for accomplishing that object.—( Cries of
~
No, no," from Mr. Buller.) He should suppose that the
Hon. Member was ready to bring under the notice of Perlia-
silent the reforms to which he had adverted. lie, on the other
hand, had stated on the part of Ministers that they meant to
Propose Bills on their own respen.ibilitv, and with the con-
sent of the Crown, to effect the intended reforms. He, how-
ever, should say that there were many questions connected
with the Duchies of Cornwall and Lancaster that would re-
quire a good deal of time to examine, and considerable re-
search in matter of details and attention to various circum-
stances, in framing a remedy. With respect to the tin
dues, the complaint always urged on the part of the people
of Cornwall was—recollect that they are subject to peculiar
cues, which raise the value of tin on import. He thought
tne Honourable Member for Kilkenny, who, he believed,
was about to address the House, would agree with him
that a change might be effected, embracing a simpler mode
of collection, and keeping in view the import duties on
tin, as compared to the peculiar advantages with re-
spect to other metals which the people of that part
of the country enjoyed. He was persuaded that this ques-
tion should be looked into, with a view not only to prevent the
Pecuniary grievance, but to advance the general interest of the
country. Well, then, came the point of greatest difference
between the proposition of the Hon. and Learned Member
for Liskeard and the motion which we mean to submit. The
Bon. and Learned Member proposed that the whole of these
revenues should be surrendered by the Crown to the public
Management, and that an equivalent should be given to the
Crown for the loss of this revenue. Now, what we have to
State is, that on considering this whole matter of the revenues
of the Crown we reflected that here was an ancient and accus-
tomed revenue received for centuries in some respect or other
by the Crown. We then had to determine whether it was the
advantage of the Crown and the public that an ancient revenue
of this kind should be commuted for a species of revenue of a
different description, it never having been applied to the dis-
charge of the expenses of the country, or to any general liabi-
lity for the support of the army and navy. Well, then, could
We advise the Crown to part altogether with these revenues, in
order, as the Hon. and Learned Member for Liskeard said,
that it should receive an equivalent from the public ? 'We
certainly did not consider it our duty to make that proposition.
The Hon. and Learned Gentleman had stated that he was
ready,. to propose a sufficient equivalent.—( Hear, hear, hear. )
tie did not believe that her Majesty's Government or the
House would assent to the proposal, or that they could
so ill represent the country as to say, " The present Queen
Shall have a less revenue than her royal uncle, or the present
is a time when the just and fair income of the Crown ought
to be diminished."—( Cheers.) He was afraid that the revenue
proposed to be granted instead of the ancient and meet's-
turried income, would be more grudged and given less wil-
lingly than that for which it has been substituted, which
stood on a forting of prescription, and which had never been
interfered with in the manner which had beep laid down.
Why if, instead of the present motion, we had to-night
come down and given our assent to the surrender of the
tWhole of the revenues, and resolved that every shilling should
ue placed at the disposal of Parliament, there would be found
Ze Member at least—he meant the representative of South-
Su
—to excla:m, '°lt is very well to make this nominal
'''''nder, but you charge it on the Civil List, and thus grant
an
aequivalent for what you profess to take away." No doubt
that i',ould have been the language of the Hon. Member
hs
for Southwark and others, and therefore he was confirmed in
the opinion that if her Ministers were to advise the Crown
to make such a surrender, they would recommend that which
bad never before been attempted, and which, so far from
proving satisfactory, would be met by the announcement—
"We were told we should be called on for no equivalent ;
you have no right to any." And if an absolute increase of
the revenues of the Crown were made to the extant of
30,0001., or 40,000/., or 50,000/., it would be represented as
an augmentation of her Majesty's income, which had never
been received by her predeecssors.--( Hear, hear.) Then
did we not judg,e right in saying, 4, While we are ready to
reform abuses and have the acquiescence of the Queen in the
steps which we mean to take for the better management of
the properties of these Duchies, and whilst we disclaim all
mystery as to the income which the Crown may receive, we
are not prepared to make the surrender which is pointed
out, particularly when the Civil List is not greater than was
granted to her Majesty's uncles, and not greater, I am sure,
than the people of this country would be willing to pay ; for
I venture to asset that it is not the opinion of the people of
this country that we should show on this occasion a more nig-
gardly disposition towards her present Majesty than that exhi-
bited to her predecessors?" Such, then, being the disposition
of the people, we, representing them, thought it right to
submit the Civil List which we have introduced, and not to
make a
surrender of those revenues which, while it should
involve
considerable diminution of the fair rights and former
property of the Crown, would produce nothing of satisfaction,
but induce opposition as to a new claim, which, while it
tended to weaken and impair the splendeue of the Crown,
would not prove agreeable to the people.—( Cheers.)
Mr. HUME felt that the abuses of the present system by
which this Duchy was managed, were, at all events, acknow-
ledged. The propositions which the Right Hon. Gentleman
trade would be of great advantage ; for they would tend to
show what the real revenue of this Duchy was, not the present
income derived from it ; for that, he feared, would be found
small, owing to the gross mismanagement which had prevailed.
The next improvement intended was, that the care of these
revenues should not be left to an irresponsible person, but en-
trusted to that House. Now, here arose a question of the
greatest importance. The people of England ought to know
What were the whole of the revenues which appertained to
the Crown. Now, the revenues of these Duchies were
never brought before the Civil List Committee. The con-
sequence was, that the Committee recommended a grant
which they considered sufficient and adequate to maintain
the dignity and honour of the Crown. The sum recent-
' mended to be given was 385,000/., in addition to which these
'-'uchies, if properly managed, would yield 100,0001. a year.
Note, was that too much or too little ? Should the Queen
.Change her mind, or her advisers, would she be bound
'lot to take a larger amount than was now in-
tended to be given ? The chance was, that those who sue-
eeeded the Right Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer, would have a different opinion, and it was on that ac-
count that he wished to have the abuses which had been pointed
out prevented in time, and an ameliorated system adopted.--
(Hear.) He regretted extremely that her Majesty's Minis-
ters had not advised the Queen openly and fairly to put an
end to the abuses which existed, and to trust to the liberality
of that House, which, if it saw the opprobrium of being con-
nected with the ill-managed system under which those Duchies
Were placed, cast aside, would not raise a single dissentient
voice to the preposition of a liberal compensation. He
thought the present motion extremely ill-judged, and not cal-
culated to effect the object which her Majesty's Ministers had
in view.—(Hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER observed
that the points in which all seemed to concur were, first, that
the attention of the Legislature should be called to the import
duty on foreign tin ; next, that the leasing power which
aPPertained to the Duchy of Cornwall should be so amended
as to •
s - give a protection to property in that county analogous
to that which existed with regard to other property. The
oiel,flt Point was as to the better management of offices, an
Pet which would be aceomplished by having the accounts
;11bl-flitted on proper responsibility, so as to afford an oppor-
tritY to correct the abuses which might be proved to exist.
a Honourable Friend (the Member for Kilkenny) had
Stated that the question of the retention of the Duchies of
Cornwall and Lancaster had never been submitted to the
•
'seussion on this subject. Supposing that an equivalent was
voted for the loss of ancient territorial possessions,-it must be
drawn from the Consolidated fund, and would constitute a
si,.,
"ge not very palatable to the community.—( Hear, hear.)
S " the fears of his Hon. Friend that the remedies now pro-
'eci would be counteracted by those who might succeed to
those who now held office, he should, so far as he was con-
cerned, give no ground for the apprehension, inasmuch es af-
ter the holidays he should, in his capacity of Minister of the
gr°lvn, introduce the practical measures of which he had
On notice. He should certainly introduce these Bills in
fiery
faith, and with every disposition to give a remedy for
linerY One of those cases of abuse which had been stated by
delMembers. With this understanding he did hope there
tliiu'd be no additional delay in respect to the Bill under
eussion
G, F. YOUNG said, what he wanted to know was,