The Sun.
London, England, 1830-02-23 00:00:00

pay of the infantry soldier. This Most explosive and useless
branch of the seriketouiht at mate to be reduced. Ile
contended that theNitlie Guards were utterly useless as
eotisiared with `other corps---tir they were never employcti
as itief upon foreign stisions. One would think tlat
400 men would be quite enough for all the pomp and pa-
,ritile of royalty, instead of there.beiug 1,100, with one
crst per for every seven men. The proportion of tat; rs to
the men was beyond all rule or order. This be looked.
upon as a most wanton expenditure, and the Hou.e ought
immediately to put an end to it. Perhaps they were not
aware that all the accounts of the Life Guards, Wth horse
and foot, were never audited. The House knew nothing.
of the distribution of the money, or how the es:tablislonent
was kept up. A paper bad been put into his hands to-day
by an officer, who had once belonged to the Life Guard.,
and who had asked him a question upon the suhject to
which it referred. lie (Alr. li.) now wialled to put a ques-
tion on the same subject to the Right fun. Gent. oppo-
site.

He viewed to know if the statement he had he•srd
rom that Officer was correet—that in the Oxf Hums
there was a Quarter-Master for every troop? He under..

. .
stood the fact to he so--and if it were, he knew net in Nehat
terms to characterise such gross( profusion. ile heil been
told, likewise, that some of these Quarter-M titers were
suffered to retire, in the prime of life, upon their feli pay
of Bs. 6d. a day. He would ask the House if 7,000
men were to be reduced, why was it necessary to maintain
so large and extensive a recruiting ostehlislenent se that
which was now kept up—an establishment which cost the
country 46.000/. ?—(llear, hear.)—The Hoe. Member
then particularized several items in the recruiting establish-
ments, both in Great Britain and Ireland, and contended
that they were rather suited to a country either engatred
in war or preparing fur it, than to a country in a stete Of
peace. While the expense of this department was now
46,000/., it (lid not amount to more than 5,05/0/. in
1792. Right Hon. Gentlemen on the other tide might not
think his observations well timed, hat he could nut help
that. Neither could Le give them credit for a wish to
effect reduction, and spare the public looney, when he
saw them so tenacious of keeping up establishments which
the state of the country was not able to bear. He thought
likewise that the troops were removed front one place
to another much too frequently, and a very large portion
of the expense attending such change. might be saved.
Another useless item of expense, was the suns of 6,0001,
s-year, to keep np a table for the officers ex punt at St.
James's. He must also object to a vote of 8,500/. com-
pensation-money to officers of the Guards, au account
of the system being altered which allowed them to receive
a certain portion of the pay of every private soldier
who was permitted to work out of quarters. This
rote ought tor the future to be discoetiumed. TLe Com-
mons of England ought not to vote so large a sum is the
fifteenth year of peace, for this part of the military service.
They ought to carry into effect reductions to a very large
extent, and, by stopping the supplies, to compel Lis Ma-
jesty's Ministers to comply with the wishes and went) of
the people. But all that Le should now ask was, that
the vote for the pay of the troops should be reduced to
.vhat it was in 1822 and 1823. The House, he hoped,
would see tke propriety of bringing bask the Dein-site to
that amount if they did not choose to go the whole way.
and to reduce it to its scale in 1792. The average amount
1 in 1822 and 1823 was 2,550,000/., while the vote now
proposed was 3,015,000/. This was the charge calculated
for 81,000 men. The House had not yet approved of
this vote, and they were still at liberty to demand its re-
duction to the amount to which he Lad proposed, or ins-
medietely to stop theseppliee. He should, therefore, take the
liberty of moving that 2,550,000/. should be the suet
voted, being the average amount of the votes of 1822 and
1823, although it was still nearly a minims snore than he
would be disposed to grant, if it were possible at once to
come down to a level with the wants and wishes of the
people. However, in two or three years, he hoped that st
comprehensive and effectual reduction might be made
without pressing upon any particular class.
The question upon Mr. Hume's amendment was then
put by the Chairman of the Committee.
Mr. PEEL rose and said, I have no doulit that my
Right Hon. Friend on my left (the Seeretary-at-War) will
he able to give to the House a satisfactory explauetion of
the various mattere of detail adverted to in the concluding
part of the Hon. Gentleman's address to the Conenittee.
But, Sir, there are some observatiena in the preceding part
of that Hon. Gentleman's speech of easels a character and
studs a tenour as I have never before heard in this rode -
pendent assembly of the Representatives of the people—.
(Hear, hear)—and against which I feel it my duty to
eater my decided and earnest protest—(Cheers.)--.Sir, 1
cannot help thinking that the Hon. Gentleman has ap-
pearotl to-night in the charactor of a disappointed prophet,
and has been attempting to make some compeusaton for
that inconsiderate declaratien of his on a preceding night,
that he expected no reduction at the loads 4 his M 4.
jesty's Ministers. He now finds that reductions have boon
effected, and reductions so large that we hare almost spoilt
Isis own trade—(Cheers)—that retrenchment has been
studied to an extent and with a sweeees far beyond what
he could have anticipated ; and he Ends it necessary to snake
some compensation for at declaration conveyed in language
which I am confident the Hon. Gent. would himself, lit
his cool moments, reprobate. Sir, say right Hon. Friend
. .

lies stated to the Committee, that the present estimate:are
lower than those of any year since 1804; or, according
to the more correct statement of my Right Iron. Friend
the Chancellor of the Exchequer—comparing the whole of
the army votes, embracing the extraordinaries, the militia,
old the yeomanry—they are lower than any year since
179 k The Hon. Gentlesuzu speaks of the year 1822,
and he bays, " Why do you not reduce the Estimates to
the scale of that year ?" Why, Sir, is the Honourable
Gentleman aware that the present votes are lower by
150,0001. than those of that very year to wYcit he ap-
peals as the one that ought to be the standard of our ex-
penditure ? The whole amount of money for the pay-
ment of the service for this year is 150,0001. less thin
that of 1822.

Mr. HUME wat understood to dissent from this state-
ment.

Mr. PEEL.—The Hon. Genecinan admits that hs was
absent at the commencement of this discussion. Let me
ask, Sir, why was the lion. Gent. absent?—(Cheers. )--.
fie thought, it seems, that another motion would have
preceded this part of the basilica, and that it would have
occupied the House for a longer time. In that motion
was a resolution condemning his Majesty's G,vernment
for want of economy in conducting the public service. If

we were guilty of that want of ecnnomy—if we deserved
that condemnation, why was the Hon. Gradation absent ?
(Cheers.)—Or is an Hon. Member to come in at the fag
end of a debate, and vote for condemnation, without having
heard the debate, or being acepriinted with our defence?—
(Cheers. )—Ant the Hon. Gentleman does not stop
here. Ile makes an attack upon the majority by whom
his Majesty's Government was supported the other night,
and imputes to the Gentlemen composing that majority
corrupt personal motives. Sir, on that occasion, many
Hon. Gentlemen who are adverse to the general policy
of the Government were found amongst the majority.
will venture to say that the hat of those who, on Friday
night, voted in favour of the present alllilgnt of the Army
Estimates, including those who azdinarily support, es
well as those who oppose the views of hia Majesty's Go-
vernment, was couiperkil of men of as independent, •as
honourable, and as free from the imputation of cor-
rupt motives, as the Honourable Gendosuan himself—
(Cheers)—and it is too utueli to bear a Member of
this House not only undertaking to censure the

conduct of those who happened to he opposed to
him, but also undertaking to olsargo men as koneurable, as
independent, and as patriotic, as himself, with corrupt
views, and with a desire to promote their own personal
interest, because there happened to he a difference between
him and them as to the amount of the army Estimates. Tho
Hon. Gentleman's proposition is to rednee the army isN'
5,000 men. Ido not think tits lion. Gentleman is him-
self very likely ta make concessions. When he makes a
:notion, it is not with a view to gain a few vntes, but be-
cause he thinks it right and proper, and because some
Gentlemen have differed with h'zia, whether 81,000 or
76,000 men shall be kept for the service of the country,
he thinks himself jostiiied iu imputing to them corrupt
motives, and a desire not only to Maintain the present Go-
vernment in power, but the corrupt and base view of pro-
tecting themselves and their relatives in the public pay,
lie charges their not with those considerations of party and
policy which ordinarily
ibilaence disputes in this House,,
hut with the disgraceful motive of extending their owe
person;;! advantage and interest. So much for what the
Sir,
of the country, under cir-
Hon. Gentleman has said with regard to the Government
the lion, Gentleman has made
never beard anappeal of the
physical
hich in my opinion reflects the utmost
can::
,ImpiilensaactliHeer; uatusileinlde.d
discredit upon the man who can play upon sloth instill-
ments—(Loud cheers)—and wht while in aecurit'y him-
self, can excite those whom he calls a distressed and•
starving population to acts of force and violence, and Rai*,
" I who instigate you to rebellion" (for it is nothinglesi),,'
‘• I ant not only s.fe myself from the penalties of high
treas,m. hut I will take care to make this appal in a
pace in n Lich even his Majesty's AttorneysGencral cannot
Isy hold of wh it I say."-.--(Cheers.) The Hon. Baronet
for 'Westminster cattle fairly tut ward tile other night, and,
gave u-tice of his intention to publisk that which othel,k
might Lelieve to he a 144. the Hun. Cent!eswan
er.,tects himself ex 4 tess4 and ,svnx,e,lly by 14.