The Sun.
London, England, 1839-04-17 00:00:00

THP, SITN, LONDON. WEDNESDAY, APRIL 17. 1839.

cinno.e. on the Government. The Honourable
Ba-
ronet said he should not consider his amendment a
vote of censure. Now he (Mr. O'Brien) should, and so
would the country ; and the people of Ireland ought to be
much obli,;ed to the Noble Lord, for calling upon the
House to declare that the general spirit of the policy of
the Administration, and of the Executive Government in
Ireland, was satisfactory to them. It as as necessary to
do so, in order to secure- future Governments from being
intimidated by adverse maj,,rities in Cie House of Lords,
or charees end insieuations in this house.—( Hear. ) lie
(Mr. O'Bi ien) wished it to bedistinetly understood, that he
confined himself only to the period siace 1835--that being
the duration of the Marqu;s of Normanby's Government.
The lion. Gentlemen then took a review of the adminis-
tration of Lord Normanby. He reminded the House that
as they were already aware the number of convictions had
increased in proportion to the offences, that Catholics had
been raised to the bench, that many able assistant Bar-
risters of the same creed had been appointed, that many
appointments of Catholics in the constabulary had been
made, and that also a greater spirit of liberality, and in-
deed of equality, had been manifested in the offices and
appointments in Municipal Corporations during the adnrii-
nistratioh of the Noble Lord. No complaint could be al-
leged against these appointments. There could be no charge
made against the Noble Lord for not directly discounten-
ancing the Precursor Society and the General Association,
no more than there could be against former administrations
in respect to the Catholic s Jciation. He would asser-
_ _

that tie Marquis of Normanby had given as much assist
ante to the collectors of tithe as any former Lord Lieu

country would have teen much worse if that Act had to
passed. He trusted, into whatsoever hands the Govern-
ment might fall, the principle of the Catholic Relief Bill
would be carried out in Ireland. With i espect to the ad
ministration of Lord Normanby, be thought it was unjlst
to throw the whole catalogue of crimes which had been ad-
verted to upon the Government of that Noble Lord.
What was the motion of the Noble Lord opposite?
Why it called upon him and the other Members
of that House to assent to a vote of confidence in the pre-
sent Covernment. He objected to give such a vote of
confidence, because there was a great difference between
it and passing a vote of censure--he objected to it because
he thought it uncalled for, and he lamented the appeal
and the spirit in which it had been made by the Noble
Lord opposite to that House. He admitted, to a certain
extent, that the vote of the other House of Parliament
was a censure on the Government, but he thought the
course they had adopted in answer to that vote was un-
called for, and intended only to patch up a tottering Ad-
ministration.—( Hear, hear.) It was said that the present
was a serious crisis. Now they had heard so much of such
things in late years that their existence was looked upon
as of little or no value. In the present instance, if the
Government fall it was by no act of the Members on that
side of the House ; they had not sought the opportunity,
but the Government had done it themselves.—(Hear,
hear.) He (Mr. Lascelles) had voted up to Easter with
the Noble Lord, but in the present instance he felt himself
compelled to pursue a different course, and support the

Member amendment of the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for
Tamworth.

tenant.—( Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord was also en.
titled to the credit of having almost suppressed the bar-
barous custom of faction fighting in Ireland. It was a fact
that fights of this desci iption used formerly to be looked
upon by Hon. Gentlemen of the opposite party as mere
scenes in which the boys were amusing themselves—
( Loud laughter)—or as proofs of the peace cf
the country. The government of the Noble Lord could
not fairly be tarnished on account of the murder of Lord
Norbury, however painful that might be. It was a fact
that many of those gentlemen who brought forward
charges of crime against Leland lived in that country
themselves, without danger, and traversed their neigh-
bourhoods without suffering the slightest injury in person
or property. It would indeed he as just to infer tha
England was in a state of geLeral atrocity, from a perusal
of the Newgate Calendar, as to infer that Ireland was
distracted by crimes, from the melancholy specimens they
had heard of and the exaggerated charges that had
ben made.—( Hear ) He would say, in justice to his
countrymen, that when they were kindly treated there
was not a more grateful or attached people on the face of
the earth.—( Hear.) The Hen. Gentleman then referred
to the unhappy system of letting land that prevailed in
Ireland. The manner in which high rents were exacted,
and ejectments enforced was particularly exasperating.
Many wretched people were annually expelled from their
holdings, and then having no place to go to, and no means
to subsist on, they lived for a while upon the charity of
their neighbours, and erected huts by the ditch side, where
they in many cases soon perished by fever or famine. He
was sorry to learn that Lord Lorton had ejected a large
number of tenants from one of his estates in Longford,
because they would not (perhaps because they could not)
give evidence respecting a murder that had occurred in
their vicinity.--(The Hon. Member here read an extract
from an Irish Paper, stating that Lord Lorton had expelled
forty-five families from his estate, and exposed them to
destitution.) The Noble Lord had called in the assistance
of the military to effect this expulsion ; true he had, as he
stated, given them compensation, but this only with a view
to induce a belief that they had left by their own voluntary
act. These were the circumstances of the case, and in the
short space of a few hours two hundred and twenty per-
sons, among whom were cripples, the dumb, the blind,
widows, and orphans, were cast upon the world
without a house or a home. Among these there was not a
single Protestant, but 462 Roman Catholics had been
ejected from Lord Lorton's estate, on religious and poli-
tical grounds.—( Cries of " No, no," from the Opposition
benches.)
Mr. 0' CONN E L L—Dany the fact 1—( Cheers. )
Mr. S. O'BRIEN.—He would ask any any friend of
Lord Lerton whether that was the case or net; and he
would say that evidence tantamount to that had been given
before " the Fictitious Votes Committee."—(Cheers.)
And it had also been stated in a newspaper,
by a gentleman who signed his name " Agricola,"
and gave his place of residence, and who was ready to
come forward to substantiate these facts. Did not such a
state of things demand attention ?" Emigration had been
suggested as a remedy for these evils, but would it remedy
them ? Furnishing the people with employment was ano-
ther remedy, but when it was proposed to establish Rail.
roads in Ireland, they were told it was ,a Government job--
( Hear, hear)--because the line went from the ccunties of
Cork, Limerick, and Dublin, where the population
En-
niskillen andienopopsoesriAtte, myranu
to and distress,
aythat. because it did not go to En-
It
employment
was ungenerous
was
i n Hon.
necessaryto
Gen-
tlemen
theirfordn
g tph em
well-being,an
employment. and then n
Education
o s m
r w the scheme for a
doubtlessf-
remedy these evils, but that had been treated as a party
question, and they refused to educate the people on the
only terms on which they would be educated.—( Hear,
hear.) They say they will not give them education except
makingthemconverts
raise(Hear)—and they
foonsetdhethteermms of
that
education which would
inpotlhiteicmalinp h
social scale, and improve their condition.r
itvi e
It was unwise
to deny to Ireland an equal participation
leges. The party opposite had gone so far as to calum-.
niate the Catholic Clergy, by representing them as s
to crime; if it were not for the Catholic Clergy, crime
would increase tenfold in Ireland. TheCatholieClerg y have
leagued themselves as one man in opposition to the House
of Lords—that was the offence they had committed.
They had taken influence out of the hands of the gentry of
Ireland, because that influence had been used in opposition
to the interests of the country ; and they were denounced
because they would not concur In the return of certain
Members to that House. Was it politic to make enemies of
3,000 of the most influential individuals in Ireland ?
In Scotland the clergy of the majority were
recognised, in Ireland they were insulted. Their support
of the present Government showed how easily they might
he won by kindness. The time was now come to decide
whether the people of Ireland would be admitted to a per.
feet union, or whether there should be no union at all.—
(" Hear, hear," from M. O'Connell.) And at this mo-
mentous crisis, when America, Russia, the Colonies, when
3,000,000 Chartists—(Cries of "Oh, oh," and laughter)
—at all events, a very numerous body, regarded it with
distrust, it was next to madness to exasperate a
n m eHnet pt.
speopleee d grateful w
hf oor a tphper
vs
emda
ol efs t
thkein dGnoevses
r.
licy iu Ireland, however they might differ from them on
other questions, to support them on this motion.
Colonel PERC E VAL would leave it to the House to
decide whether the exaggerations of the Hon. Member for
Belfast had not been exceeded by those of the Hon. Gen-
tleman with regard to the three millions of Chartists, or a
still greater one of the 500 tenants of Lord Lorton, ejected
to squat in the bogs. This exaggeration might have been
well spared after the benevolence shown to Lord Lorton
by the Hon. Member for Roscommon. The Hon. and
Learned Member for the University of Dublin, had, the
other night, adduced facts, which completely answered the
statements of the Hon. Gentleman with regard to that
Noble Lord. Lord Lorton had brought a person from
the county of Down to introduce the cultivation of flax.
—( A laugh.) The Hon. and Learned Gentleman oppo-
site applied a term to me, when I laughed yesterday, which
I should be sorry to apply to him.
Mr. LUKE WHITE—I only laughed at the mention
of the cultivation of flax.

Mr. BE LLE W contended that if the amendment of the
Right Honourable Baronet were carried it would have the
effect of restoring that ascendancy which had now happily
pretty generally been abolished.—(Hear, hear.) The
complaint that had been made of the promotion of Sir
Michael O'Loghlen, Mr. Pigott and others, preyed in
what spirit, notwithstanding the Emancipation Act had
been passed, Gentlemen opposite would administer
Irish affairs. —( Hear, hear.) There was no hope for
Ireland, except through that species of good government
which had for the last few years characterised the admi-
nistration of Irish affairs.—( Hear, hear.) If the
amendment was successful, and the Right Hon. Baronet
and his party took the reins of Government, the necessary
consequence would be that not a single Roman Catholic
would be admitted to office, and' it should be recollected
that the Right Hon. Baronet, on the last occasion he took
office, offered a high situation to a Noble Lord, who stated
that there would be no peace in Ireland till the Catholic
Clergy were destroyed.—( Hear, hear.) He would
ask those who always supperted the present Govern-
ment in their administration of Irish affairs, whether
they would now abandon them and involve both
countries in open ruin ?—( Hear, hear.) To those who
said they could not distinguish between a Whig and Tory
Government, he would answer that the difference was as
large as one-third of the empire; and as they valued the
farther improvement of the Irish people, the interests of
the public peace, and the eventual security of property in
that country, he would implore them not to support the
amendment of the Hon. Baronet.—( Hear. )
Lord PO WE RSC 0 URT could not give a silent vote
on the present occasion, and he rejoiced that her Majesty's
Ministers had thought fit to enter into a serious discussion
of this important subject, which had hitherto, when
brought before the House, been discussed in a manner un-
worthy of its paramount importance. The defence set
up by the Irish Government of late years, when any
flagrant case had been brought before the attention
of either House was, that it must be attributed
to want of judgment, or there was an expression of useless
regrets. The effects of a want of judgment in the admi-
nistration of private affairs was only felt by the individuals
themselves; but a want of judgment in the administration
of the affairs of the country, was more than a mere misfor-
tune to the Ministers themselves, and became the bane
and misery of the country.—(Hear.) He rejoiced that a
Committee in another place had been appointed, because it
involved not only the prosperity of Ireland but that of the
whole empire, for it was only by such a course a subject of
such importance could receive fair consideration. It had been
attempted to be proved by the Noble Lord the Secretary for
the Home Department that there were only 170 prisoners
liberated, but by the returns made to the House, on the
motion of the Hon. and Learned Member for Bandon, in
1838, it was proved that there were no less than 1,100 per-
sons let out of gaol by the late Lord Lieutenant.—( Hear,
hear.) Far be it from him, now that that Noble Lord had
retired from the splendour of his regal state to doubt that
a man of humane and benevolent disposition might feel his
bosom dilate with conscious pride, when he reflected that
he had restored many thieves and housebreakers to their
families—that he had afforded the murderer in many in.
stances, an opportunity of repenting of his errors, and of
commencing a new course of life; but when they heard
that those very felons who had been rescued from
the grasp of justice—that those convicted malefactors who
were let loose on society had only made use of their liberty
to commit new breaches of the peace, and that those per-
sons had only become the scourge of their neighbour-
hood, it did appear to him that the late Lord Lieu-
tenant had neglected to consider that what was due to
mercy should not be taken from justice.—( Loud cheers.)
That Noble Lord might call it humanity—he might say it
was to be attributed to want of judgment—or he might
use any other phrase that might strike pleasingly on the
ear, but he begged to tell that Noble Lord, that every
crime afterwards committed by those prisoners, rested on
the man who corr. muted their punishment, and that his re-
sponsibility remained. So much for this prerogative of mercy,
which had been so grossly abused by her Majesty's Ministers.
It now remained for him to notice another assertion. Did
they mean to attempt to prove that there were fewer out-
rages? No such thing. They came with a long state-
ment referring to the times when rebellion was rite, and
asserted that matters were not worse than in former years.
The worst and most astounding feature was, that in propor-
tion to the increase of crime was the chance of immunity—
the meaning was that there were more murders but fewer
murderers—that there were more outrages but fewer per-
sons brought to justice.—( Hear, hear.) He would not
trouble the House farther than to express the pleasure
which be felt in voting for the amendment.
The O'CONNOR DON, who rose amidst loud calls
for Mr. Shiel, said that he felt bound to vote against the
motion of the Right Hon. Baronet, and for the motion of
the Noble Lord the Home Secretary. The Committee
appointed in the House of Lords to inquire into the state
of crime and outrage which had tended to disturb the peace
and tranquillity of that country, and to render life and pro-
perty insecure, involved the condemnation of the Irish
Government, and when one branch of the Legislature
pronounced its opinion, the Government had a right to
appeal to the other House to ascertain whether it would
concur in the condemnation, or pronounce an ac-
quittal. If the House of Lords pronounced a con-
demnation of the Government, this House had a
right to pronounce an acquittal, if it should be made
out.—(Cheers and counter cheers.) He agreed in the
motion of the Noble Lord the Member for Stroud, because
he thought the Government of Ireland had contributed to
the peace and security of that country. How was this to
be ascertained ?It was to be shown by the records of crime
in that country, for it appeared that the number of offences
had diminished, and he thought niuch weight ought to be
attached to the charges of the Judges on the circuit on this
subject. He admitted there were outrages in Ireland as well as
in England, but the question was, whether they had increased
or diminished, and, if they had increased, whether the
conduct of the Government had tended to that increase,
or, if they had diminished, whether the Government was
not entitled to credit for the diminution of crime. The
outrages were of two sorts chiefly. Faction fights and
agrarian outrages. Now, with respect to faction fights,
they had gradually diminished, and that diminution was

COLONEL PE RCE VAL—I did not apply my oh- owing to the measures of the present Government. With
nervation to the Hon. Gent., but to the Hon. and respect to agrarian outrages, wherever they arrived to any
Learned Gentleman who sits by his side, and who yesterday formidable head, the Government took the most
taxed me with brutality- because I laughed. The Gal- prompt means to put them down, and the Lord Lieute-
lent Colonel then proceeded with his statement. This nant had done all in his power for the suppression of these
person from the county of Down was brutally murdered ; outrages. But the proper measure was to ascertain a re.
two other murders of Protestants took place ; and then medy—and that remedy had been found in the system of
Lord Lorton, in the exercise of the just rights of pro- the Poor-law, for which credit must be given to the pre-
pony, stated, that if another murder took place he should sent Government. The question now discussed was,
eject the tenants. Murder was repeated, and he threw whether the system of Government was to be continued in
down forty-five houses, having previously procured lodg- Ireland which had obtained the support of the great body
ings for the inhabitants, and this was the conduct which of the people, or whether it was to be supplanted by a
the lion. Gentleman chose to brand in terms which be system of Government against which the great body of the
(Col. Perceval) would not designate. (Hear, hear.) people had protested in the strongest possible terms.—
he Gallant Colonel went on to say that Lord Normanby He had no doubt that the House would give its cordial
went into Dublin to assume the functions of vice royalty support to the system which had been pursued by the pre-
at the head of a party procession, attended by a cortege, sent Government.— (Hear.)
among which were borne various flags and ensigns, of an Mr. SIDNEY HERBERT said, that under any cir-
illegal character.—(Cries of "No such thing" from the cumstances, it appeared to him that the House of Lords
Ministerial side.) The Gallant Colonel affirmed that had a full right to make inquiry, when it was asserted that
he had taken out his note-book, and written down many causes existed for outrage which had never hithertc
of the symbols.—( A cry of Read, read.") There been investigated. But if they wanted another reasons
was among others, the emblem of the harp without the to justify the course pursued in another place,
crown, and several other ensigns of the same kind as those it was supplied by the suggestion of the Chancellor of the
used in 179 5.—(" No, no," from the Ministerial side— Exchequer, who stated that if the returns were granted,
" Order," and Hear, hear," from the Opposition.) Yes, they were not to be depended on. The Right Hon. Gen-
Lord Normanby went into Dublin, at the head of a party tlemen also said, let them not make this a party question,
procession, and surrounded by men, with few exceptions, but let them put their heeds together, in order to discover
remarkable far their agitating propensities, and by the causes of those evils, and the means by which they
some who had been liberated from gaol.—(Hear, hear.) were to be remedied.—( Hear, hear.) But the Goven-
from the Opposition.) The Gallant Colonel went on to ment caught at the proceedings which had taken place
allude to the progress made through Ireland by Lord in the House of Lords, because they found a defec-
Normanby, who, he said, though he had been followed by tion amongst their own allies, and thought they
crowds of the populace, had been attended by few of the could offer no more palatable bait' than a collision with
landed gentry. The Gallant Colonel complained that he that House, and(tHhaetarth, ebyeacou)ld nToitlechoop a better ground
had been strongly denounced by the Honourable than
Member for Dublin at a public dinner in Sligo, and got a premature— verdict onr the
evidence
manifested
be
that the attack had been echoed in every one of the Ro •
Government
in the
rot Lords
stand showed wa e d that
c;vot
eee which
nconductegshtitoo:f
man Catholic chapels through the county. The priests' tghwee
had repeatedly used exciting language respecting him. tion. The House of Lords had recovveerreyd all their weioht
Such was the state of the county now, owing to the sys- and influence, and authority in the country TO y
tem of agitation founded on slander, which existed, that cheers)—which was owing to their great —(rtalents_
the gentlemen of the county would not allow him (Col. ( Laughter)—their practical knowledge in debate, above
Perceval) to dine with them unless he stayed all night, for all, to their patriotism.—( Loud laughter and cheering. )
fear he should be assassinated on going home.—( Hear, It was very strange if Hon. Gentlemen would refuse to
hear, from the Opposition.) The conspirators of Ireland inquire into the state of that country, and he trusted that
had succseded in conquering the law, and the blame of the House would pause before, for a party and a selfish
that was to be attached to the apathy of the Irish Exece- purpose—( Loud cries of " Oh, oh," and cheers)—they
tive Government. The change that had taken place in would allow themselves to be placed in such a false posi-
the county of Sligo and in Ireland generally, for the worse, tion as to decide upon a question upon evidence which
was attributable to the impolitic course pursued by the they had not yet seen, and which, by the evidence given
Government, and such being the case, he felt bound to before another House, might turn out to be erroneous.
withhold his support from them. Sir W. SOME RVIL LE, amidst much noise, said he
Mr. LA SCEL LE S would support the amendment o trusted that as an Irishman he mif,-,rlit be allowed a hearing
the Right lion. Baronet the Member for Tamworth. In while he gave his sentiments on the motion then before the
the present debate topics had been introduced relative to House. It seemed to hi n that they were called upon to
the general government of Ireland, and an attempt had give a decided vote upon the motion—as for himself, and
been made to show that the existence of the present state judging for himself, from his knowledge of the state of
of things in Ireland was to be attributed to the Catholic Ireland, and considering the terms of the motion which had
Emancipation Bill.
ionme
de speeches
kaccompanied
than
that
th that
was
a votemotion, hn er , for
censureone ,ecno
the
He could not agree to such a propo- been carried in the other House—looking, also, at the
whichoth e r
degree disappointed in the expectation sition. lie was far from saying that
nhebewabs
adnoetntienrtas
from the passing of that measure m ; but he should never Government. He came to that conclusi upon the ground,
regret having given his sanction to the principles that if the Right Hon. Bart. opposite, (Sir R. Peel) were
involved in that great measure, the intention
of which was in power to-morrow, be would he ashamed of himself if he
to destroy all distinctions between Catholics and_
all Protes- could attribute to that Hon. Bart. all the outrage which
tents, and open the door of office to persons ofper-
would be sure to exist in Ireland, knowing as he did the
suasions.—( Hear,
hear.) Had the Catholics acquired state of Ireland, and the origin of that crime. They must
any power from the o oration of that Act ? Certainly
not._ (Hear, hear.) go back for many years in order to search for the cause of
I was true that the Hon. Member that crime—even so far back as the beginning of the
for Dublin had a sent in that House, but he had the same reign of George 111. they would find that
influence out of doors before the passing of the Act the Irish House of Commons bad appointed a Committee,
that he had
eopl,
now._( Hear, hm., hear. ) That g
and then existing ; and that Committee had reported almost in
reat which Committee had investigated the cause of the crime
measure was called for b the e of Ireland
he would venture to say thay p
t the state of things in that i the same terms as that which had lately been sitting. It

was to be remembered that there was a transition state
going on in Ireland—smell farms are now going
into large ones, and that was forced upon the landlord in
consequence of the operation of the Poor-law. From his
own experience, from what he learned in his own neigh-
bourhood he eculcl assure the House that the
crimes in Ireland were frequently invented—at all events,
if not invented they were most grossly exaggerated in the
public prints. For instance, in his own neighbourhood it
was stated by the public papers that large bodies of the
peasantry were regularly drilled and exercised to the bear-
of arms. It was a serious charge, and an investiga-
tion was entered upon by the magistrates in the
neighbourhood. The charge was found to be
totally false, but still it was never contra-
dicted in the newspapers, and of course stood as authentic,
so far as the newspaper reports went. In a case which
had occurred at a late assizes, the Judge had stated to a
jury that he was very glad they had found themselves justie
fled in finding a verdict of not guilty, because had they
found otherwise he would have found it his duty to have
allowed the law to take its course. In such a place he was
astonished that such a state of things should exist. Life
was held so cheap, that it looked lie a heathen country
which had never been blessed with the light of Christianity.
Did this take place in the county of Tipperary, or in the
county of Longford? No; but such language as he had
used fell from Mr. Justice Coleridge at the York Assizes
for 1338. What a godsend such a charge wculd have
been to the Orangemen of Ireland !—(Cheers.) Much
misrepresentation had gone abroad with respect to the Mar-
quis of Normanby. He for one did not believe that the
Noble Lord had been in the habit of going into the gaols
and there liberating prisoners. He did go into gaols;
he sent for the gaolers' books ; he inquired into the na-
ture of the crime of which the parties had been convicted.
He then inquired of the gaoler as to the conduct of the
party, and upon his return to Dublin the proper order was
sent down for the relief of the party. He ( SirW. S.)-had ap-
plied to the Marquis of Normanby frequently for remission of
sentences, but never had in one instance succeeded.—
( Cheers and laughter.) There was not the slightest
ground for saying that the Noble Lord had been actuated
by political or unfair motives—the Government of the No-
b!e Lord also had had many more difficulties to encounter
than any previous Government. He bad not been
treated with common fairness, nor with that respect
due to the Queen's Representative.—( Hear, hear.)
His every action had been misrepresented—no calumny
was too gross to be promulgated against him.—( Loud
cheers.) He ( Sir W. S.) had even heard it stated by
reasonable and respectable men, that the Government were
anxious to screen the murderer of Lord Nsrbury ; and he
had even heard the magistrates state that it mattered not
that the murderers of Mr. Cooper had been convicted, be-
cause they were sure of being reprieved. He believed
that Ireland was more tranquil now than it was
for years before ; be would go further than the reso-
lution before the House, and say that it had been more
tranquil than it had been during the last 50 years. Crime
had existed in Ireland—and did exist in Ireland—and
would, until the people of that country were treated in an
impartial manner; they must acknowledge the nationality
of Ireland, and must legislate for Irishmen as if they were
natives not aliens. They must first educate the people,
and that in a manner which the people would accept, if
not they must expect that ignorance would prevail
with its concomitant crime. He should be unworthy
of a scat in this House, if he did not can-
didly state his opinions. No pecuniary sacrifice would
he too great on his part, to procure to the Church to
which he belonged, if not the attachment, at least the
respect of the people of Ireland. Before capital was intro-
duced into that country we must put an end to all politi-
cal and religious dissension. He had never approved of the
measure for reducing the ten Bishops. On the contrary, he
considered it " a heavy blow, and a great discouragement."
to the Protestant Church in Ireland. As he' understood it,
it was done with a view to conciliate the Roman Catholic
population, but if he knew anything at all of them, they
were not animated by any hostility to the Established
Church, as such. The Roman Catholics did not care if
they had 500Bishopa, provided the Protestants paid for
their support.—( Hear.) He thanked the House for the
pstience with which it had beard him. Nothing but his
ardent desire to see peace and happiness conferred upon
that country would induce him to take part in these dis.
cussions or obtrude himself upon the attention of the House.
Colonel CONNOLL Y would not trespass at any
length upon the time of the House. He was astonished
at the alarm which had been manifested by the Noble Lord
(J. Russell) and his colleagues, at the proceedings of the
other House, more especially as they had been challenged
on a previops occasion to substantiate their charges against
the Government of the Marquis of Normanby. He was
astonished that any Government would have the effrontery
to propose resolutions to that House laudatory
of the policy pursued in Ireland, when they
had the animadversions of Judges, the censure
of numerous public meetings, and the declarations of Ma-
gistrates against them. It could only be accounted for by
the fear they entertained of being shortly deprived of
their places.—( Hear, hear.) Why, the Government of
Ireland was nothing more than the sworn servant of agi-
tation. He fully concurred in the language of Lord Ox-
mantown, and he believed that it was fully borne out by
the facts—it was the language of truth, of independence,
and of fact.—(Hear, hear.) The statements made by
the Noble Lord were a manifest proof of the ex•
tent to which Government agitation, and the tyrannous
system of intimidation was practised against the loyal
population of Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) When he saw the
altered condition of the counties of Carlow, Longford, and
Sligo, and the persecution which the independent electors
were subjected to without the slightest notice being taken
of it by the Government, he could not but feel that the loyal
and Conservative people of that country were utterly de-
prived of all that protection and support to which they were
entitled. He felt gratified when he recollected that lie be-
longed to a province in a great degree removed from the in-
fluence of the agitating Govatmureat.;,anii the rapacious set
attached to it. That independentuprovince had been
subjected to indignity and insult, but, it had still main-
tained a firm front against the enemies• of peace, and order,
and good Government. He could not, therefore support
the resolution of the Noble 'Lord, because ho,thought his
policy was most dangerous to the prosperity of the empire.
What was the proposition now before the House 7 why the
Government came forward to propose a vote of
confidence in their own measure', to call upon the House
to assent to a resolution declaring that their adminis-
tration now was perfect, and that their Government
had been attended with the most satisfactory results. Al.
though the Irish Government had given up its right of
challenging jurors, yet he, Colonel Conolly would not
give up his right, and he would challenge the whole
array.—( Loud cheers and laughter.) He did not wish
to say anything harsh of the resent Government, but it
appeared to him something like impannelling a jury out of
the dock, and making the culprit foreman, when the Ad-
ministration came forward to decide upon its own acts.—
( Great laughter.) They had gone to the Bench, to the
Bar, to the Church, and to the Radical party in Ireland,
for a character, and in every instance they had been un-
successful ; and. for his part, he would never assent to
a vote of confidence in any Administration which bad
been guilty of such corrupt, profligate, and vile conduct
a; that which had disgraced the Government of Ireland.—
( Cheers and laughter.)
Mr. GRATTAN rose amidst great confusion at the
bar. When it had in some degree subsided, he said it was
exactly that day 55 years_(Laughter;—that a motion
about Ireland was brought forward in the Irish House of
Commons.—( Laughter.) The object of that motion was
to lay before King George the Third and the people of
England the grounds and the causes of the complaints
and jealousies that then distracted Ireland. That motion
passed, and it was on the same principles on which his
Hon. Friends near him had governed Ireland during the
last four years. It asserted that all classes were alike
entitled to the equal protection of the law, and the equal
enjoyment of liberty, and that they would not rest until
those rights had been obtained. And further, that it was
lonly King, Lords, and Commons that bad a right to make
laws for Ireland. On the 16th of April, 1782, the motion
passed. Ireland was then made free. Liberty was for
the first time enjoyed, and the Catholics were admitted to
then rose
the privileges of the Constitution,
and distracting 'The
eheLanhtarS been
to a pitch of glory and prosperity,dsuucebeppi y
I been sown
un-
known. But the seeds of discord
oeppsaomsitee argu-
ments Catholics and PdroiscoteesrtdGattietans,ti
ments now advanced ande
ne Gentlemen h
tsbucceedetdheinopdeersattroioyninogf
the
advancedftheth,eono,otrayn.dee
place 0
itution.
Now, be asked Hon.
PGreinoctilPemicesnoofpptohseiteCwohnetther they were prepared, after ex-
poriencing the consequences, to return to the period of
misfortune and error 2—( Hear, hear.) The Liberal party
did not, as had been alleged, call fora c
a ountnenrndvontmennaotwio.—n
now—
they only want to prevent the passing of
—( Cheers.) A majority of the House of Lords had
without inquiry passed a resolution of condemnation of the
Representatives of her Majesty and he.r.3lajesty s Ministers
in Ireland.—(No, no, from theO which was re-
plied to by cheers from the Mi
was a condemnation. The e resolution
rnwsoterrot
of the Right Hon. Baronet were also a condemnation—
nay, they were much more, they were the grossest and
most malicious libel—the mostlf
the
eagagmereantdemd
enfatlsoefhotohde
appeared on the records of the House of
that could have
Commons.—( Loud cheers.
Tipperary or to
h should not have eobjected, for
York
—and property were insecure i T.
Right Hon. Baronet had confined itself to '
Longford—or to
he admitted that life n ip-
perary, and in Longford, although that was his own native
ogfrelartely.
Hear, and laughter)t and beenthiraed
country of
county —( But he objected against the
Noble' Lord opposite (Powers-
court)Ktioinugs awbuiisieiaof
by its disorgan.isedinsatdaettet.ahgeai
against
allegation being
Ire-
land. He thought that
eefacche
large resources.
should not have indu.lge.de.ilnasstuscrh
the country from which he derived such
rlii•titilient, which was • Augustm
Paat3fter Lord Normanby's appoint-
Now it was remarla able that
the Fourth addressed to
_contained this -
in,
satisfaction, to the
1836—a year and a half
Yt lively passage:—
" TelntretfoerthyeoLuo, rdwiLtlieuttheen imnntoacs
at
thatto diminutionathperseveraiice inof car justim e
The
the
tranquil state of Ireland,i
in that country, and trus
Government,lrish people." Right Hon.
and impartial system of
good disposition of the
Bart. never contradicted that statement.._( cheers.)
complained that Lord Normanby
Would he now exclude that year and a half? The Hon.
meant by that, that he di "
Gentleman opposite
did not dispense justice--they
The
heliad done
party,
justice to the wholelf people—not
so,
the Orange
governed ? The
party, and through them.o, they would
never have complained.—( Cheers and laughter).
real question was, bow was Inland to be
Right lion. Bart. complaineethatLord J. Russell's
• yet the Noble Lord declared
his principles. He said, I
have already governed it.
motion was obscure ;
every thing, and fixed
will govern Ireland, as we
The contest had been represented as between the Lords
and Commons, but there was a third party—the millions
of the Irish people, who were entirely forgotten by the
Right lion. Baronet opposite, as they had been during
all his political life. There were 92,000 volunteers in
Ireland now, in 1792 they were commanded by the Duke
of Leinster ; the petition signed by the descendant
of that Noble Duke now lay upon the table of
the House. Should these volunteers fight with
or against England? That was the question.—(Much

Ilaughter from the opposition.) It was very well for
gentlemen to laugh, but to those who had to keep guard
over the property of the absentee proprietors, for th it
was no laughing matter.—( Hear, hear.) The Tories had
always avowed every principle opposed to the interests of
Ireland. The Whigs on the contrary, had supported the
liberties of Ireland. The Tories had unfortunately had
Ireland under their sway for a long series of years;
they had made Ireland what she was now, and
they were reaping the fruits of the evil seeds
which they had sown.---( Hear, hear.) It was natu-
ral enough that Irishmen should feel a repugnance
to the Government of such men as the Duke of Wellington
and the Right Hon. Baronet Sir Robert Peel, who had
over and over again, contradicted and stultified their own
opinions with regard to Ireland. As for the Duke of
Wellington, he had gained a fame—a glory--which he
had never tarnished, and which he- (Mr. Grattan) trusted
would never be stained by his descendants.—( Cheers.)
But whenever the Noble Duke's name—connected with
those of the Right Honourable Baronet Sir Robert Peel,
and " the Renegadoes," as they were called in Ire-
land, Lord Stanley and Sir James Graham—
whenever their names were mentioned in Ireland there
was a universal hiss, as though the Devil had broke loose
from Pandemonium.—(Roars of laughter.) The llo-
nourable Member proceeded to read a letter signed by
the late Duke of Cumberland, expressing his willing.
ness to accept the Grand Mastership of the Orange
Institution, and his adherence to its principles.
This was from a letter of the Duke of Cumberland in
1835—(Laughter, and cries of " Oh, oh," from the Oppo-
sition benches.) Hon. Gentlemen had better reserve their
exclamations until they had heard him read the document
which he held in his hand, and which contained resolu-
tions agreed to by the Orange Lodges within the last ten
days. The first was a resolution of an Orange Lodge held
in the county of Londonderry, the Rev. J. Brien in the
Chair, which stated that they rejoiced at the new model-
ling and more perfect organization of their institution,
which took place in Dublin on the 14th November last.
The next resolution states that the appointment of Lord
Fortescue, a decided enemy to the Church of Ireland, as
Viceroy of that island, is a source of deep alarm, and they
trust that her most Excellent Majesty, recollecting her
Coronation oath—that was a virtual repeal of the Act of
the Right Hon. Baronet—would cancel the appointment.
Another resolution returned thanks to the Honourable
Member opposite for his opposition to the Irish Mu-
nicipal Corporation Bill, and trusted it would be
rejected by the House of Lords, the hereditary
counsellors of the nation. Such were the supporters of
the Right Hon. Baronet—they were in mutiny before they
were enrolled—(cheers)—and this was the mutinous
army that the Right Hon. Baronet was to lead against the
united people of Ireland.—(Cheers.) The next resolu-
tion stated that 125,000 Orangemen were ready and armed.
Against whom were these men to march ? against France ?
against America ? against Russia ? No, but against their
own countrymen, and against the Government of Lord
Fortescue. There was always a farce attending every
play.---( Loud laughter from the Opposition benches.)
If the Orangemen could prove that they meant nothing
but play, he should be perfectly satisfied. He would next
draw the attention of the House to a piece of poetry,
dedicated to Colonel Verner, in which the following lines
occurred

" Although the sentinels have sold the pass,
And the defenders of our cause be few,
The gates of perfidy are made of glass,
Another diamond cuts its bright way through."
This he thought was a most wicked cut to the Right Hon.
Member for Tamworth.—(Cheers and laughter.) The
Right Hon. Baronet laughed ; this put him in mind of
what Pope—not that Pope whom the Hon. Gentleman
opposite held in such horror—bad said of the Sir Robert
of his time

" Will he oblige me ? Let me only find
, lie thinks me not what he thinks alt mankind ;
He laughs, and you laugh too—no doubt
The difference—we are in, and he is out."
—(Cheers and laughter.) He had supported the Court
of Lord Haddington, although Hon. Gentlemen opposite
would not support the Court of Lord Normanby ; hzi did
this, because he thought it his duty to uphold the
Court for the benefit of those who had rejected both
himself and the Hon. Baronet—he meant the citizens
of Dublin. The number of soldiers in Ireland had been
reduced because the Government relied for support on the
people of Ireland who would support them, but would not
support an Orange Government.—( Cheers.) He believed
solemnly that those 125,000 Orangemen would march if
they were wanted. He had in his pocket a list of an Orange
jury, struck by an Orange Sheriff, to commit those who
might be brought before them.—( Cries of" Name.") He
would prove his case by the evidence of one of his political
opponents, who said he was surprised that such a verdict
should have been given, and he would prove that the
attorney advised his client against submitting his cause to
such men who would sit all night rather than give a verdict.
—( Cries of " Name, name 1" and " No, no I") He would
name the party if the House wished.—( Cries of "No I")
He was a Protestant, and would support the Protestant re-
ligion at the hazard of his life; he admired it for the
purity and simplicity of its principles, and for its
high rectitude, but he would not be doomed to encounter
the rancorous dislike of any portion of his countrymen
for the purpose of building up a wall of exclusion against
their. He had seen them kneel before the altar of that God
whom they both acknowledged ; the greatest peace reigned
among them in private, which would reign in public also if
they were suffered to go on in harmony.—(Loud cheers.)
He was ready to admit there had been errors on both sides,
but they ought to shake hands, and forget every thing.--
( Hear hear.) Let all parties come forward, and bury
their foolish factions in one common grave.—( Hear, hear.)
It was the duty of the Right Hon. Baronet to suppress
sentiments that had not a tendency to reconcile all parties ;
and if that reconciliation did not take place, be should
begin to think the end of England bad- cOme, and that,
in *the words of Spencer, ' Ireland was' -reserved to
be the source of calamity and destruction to -reserved
land. That that calamity might be:averted, was his
most sincere wish. It was time to put an end to the
quarrel that bad taken place, England and Ireland should
go heart and hand together, and then instead of the troubles
and turmoils that had hitherto surrounded that unhappy
county, peaee, union, and prosperity would be esta.
blished.—( Cheers.)
Mr. LUCAS, as the House did not seem inclined to
adjourn, felt called upon to say a few words. He regret-
ted the turn the debate had taken, and the reflections that
had been cast on the landlords of Ireland, who were placed
in this unfortunate position, that they were succeeding
to a state of things over which they bad had no control.
He denied that outrage had not increased. On the con-
trary, he said that outrage had increased in the county
which he represented, the tranquillity of which was so
much boasted of by the Hon. Gentlemen opposite.
The Hon. Member concluded by stating that he would feel
it his duty to give his most strenuous opposition to the
motion of the Noble Lord.
On the motion of Mr. BARRON, the debate was ad-
journed till to-morrow.

The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and
the House adjourned at a QUARTER to ONE o'Clock.

CORONER'S INQUEST.

TILE ALLEGED MURDER IN LISSON. GROVE.—Yester-
day morning an inquest was held at the Mitre Public-
bmse, New Church-street, before Mr. Wakley, the Co-
roner, to inquire touching the death of Robert Horne, aged
34, and Richard Macey Ross, aged 36, the former of whom
is reported to have been waylaid and murdered by a num-
ber of omnibus men, at present unknown, and the latter
to have died in consequence of the shock which the hoi rid
event produced.
The barbarous affair has occasioned an unusual degree
of excitement in the neighbourhood. The inquest-room
was therefore much crowded.

The CORONER inquired of the beadle if there were any
witnesses who saw the men ill-used ?

The Beadle replied in the negative, observing that
the most material witness would have been Mr. Ross,
on whose body they were about to hold an inquest.
From what he (the beadle) could learn, Mr. Ross, wh•
was a cabinet maker and broker at 21 in the street in
which they were assembled, on Tuesday last had occasion
to distrain for rent on the goods of a man connected with
the Paddington omnibusses, and put the deceased, Horne,
in possession. The affair having been settled, the two
deceased men and others went and had something to drink
together, after which Herne was so ill used as to occasion
his death on Sunday morning, and Mr. Ross took it so much
to heart that he died on the following morning.
Sergeant Harrison, 13 D, here stepped forward and
stated that on Sunday after the death of Horne he had
an interview with Mr. Ross, whom he found very ill at
his house. After informing witness that he was sure he
should never get over the shock which poor Horne's
death had occasioned him, he proceeded to state what
Horne had told him a short time before he expired, and
which was to the effcet that about twelve o'clock on the
night in question he was drinking with some omnibus
ra:n at the Olive Branch public-house, in Earl-street, Lis-
son-grove, when the men who pretended to be his friends
followed him out and exclaimed, " Here's the
broker's man, pitch into him." They attacked and beat
and kicked him in the most inhuman manner. He was
afterwards brought home by a man in a glazed hat, who
put him in the passage and there left him. ( During
this recital the Jury appeared completely horior-stricken.)
Mr. Myers, a surgeon who had examined the deceased,
gave it as his opinion that death was caused by violence
on the head; he had not, however made a post mortem
examination.

The inquest was adjourned till Friday next.
Verdict on Ross " Natural Death."

COLBtTRN'S NEW MONTHLY MAGAZINE,
EDITED BY THEODORE HOOK, ESQ.—The public will be
delighted to hear that a new Series of Papers by
Mrs. Trollope are about to appear in CoThum% New
Monthly Magazine, under the piquant title of " The
Widow Married." They are intended, we understand, to
present us with the sequel of the exquisite " Widow Bar-
n aby's" history and adventures, and will bl illustrated with
etchings by Bus... What a delightful promise to those
who have had the happiness of already making the charm-
ing widow's acquaintance, and what an additional reason
for those who have not had the honour to seek an intro.
duction forthwith in the pages of the New Monthly.
KI NGSLAND-ROAD CHARTER ASSOCIATION.
—A meeting) was held on Monday, at Mr. Dyson's, 146,
Kingsland-road, for the purpose of forming a Charter
Association, agreeably to the plan laid down by the Gene-
ral Convention, when a resolution to that effect was
adopted, and the first weekly payments were made. The
feeling in favour of the Convention was ardent and unani-
mous, the persons present pledging themselves to support
by every means in their power the views and objects of that
assembly.
THE WEATHEit.—During the past week we
have had a continuance of dry, cold, east winds. Vege-
tation is thereby almost wholly retarded, and we are likely
to have another backward spring. It has been very truly
remarked, that the crops of all kinds are more abundant
when such is the case, than when the spring is precocious.
The probability is, that, in the latter case, vegetation re-
ceives a check, whereby the crops sustain irreparable
damage.—Kendal Mercury.

CONSTABULARY FORCE FOR

ENGLAND AND WALES.

(SECOND NOTICE).
In the rural districts the reports to the Commis-
sioners state, the houses for the accommodation of
vagrants create and encourage crime to an enor-
mous extent. They found only few of the Magiste-
rial divisions that were not seriously afflicted by the
existence of such receptacles. These places are
the resort not only of the mendicant but of the
common thief ; it is the " flash-house" of the rural
district, the receiving-house for stolen goods, and the
most extensively established school for juvenile de-
linquency in the district. The Magistrates of the
Chelmsford division thus describe these places :
There are several lodging-houses in the town of Chelms-
ford, where, in the course of the year, it is supposed up-
wards of 2,000 trampers or vagrants resort. The greater
number of these persons shelter themselves from appre-
hension and punishment under the Vagrant Act, by pro-
fessing to be match-sellers. This is made a cloak for
begging alms, and the pretext for going from house to
house and pilfering as opportunity offers. The lodging-
houses of Chelmsord are made the centre of a kind of
circuit which these people make almost periodically.
The system of lodging-houses for travellers, otherwise
trampers, requires to be altogether revised; at present
they are in the practice of lodging all the worst char-
acters unquestioned, and are subject to no other con-
troul than an occasional visit of inspection from
parish officers accompanied by the constables, whose
power of interference, if they have a legal right
of entry, does not extend to some of the most ob-
jectionable points connected with those houses, as they
can merely take into custody such persons as they find in
commission of some offence. The state in which those
houses are found on the occasion of such visit, proves how
much they require interference. The houses are small,
and yet as many as thirty travellers, or evon thirty-five,
have been found in one house ; fifteen have been found
sleeping in one room, three or four in a bed, men, women,
and children promiscuously ; beds have been found occu-
pied in a cellar.
But beside the migratory depredators who issue
from the large towns, and are unconnected with any

particular district, some districts are infested by gangs
of resident depredators. These traverse the district
with one-horse carts, under pretence of selling to the
poor butchers' meat or coals, but who are in the prac-
tice of receiving information how to enter barns, and
by corrupting the 'labourers often succeed in carrying
off hogs, sheep, and corn to a considerable amount,
which during the night they convey to the distance of
many miles to receivers. In consequence of the in-
efficiency of the police, these depredators carry on
these practices with comparative impunity, and,
owing to the neglect of pursuit by constables, mur-
derers frequently escape. In 1835 a woman mur-
dered her husband in Welchpool, by administering
doses of tartarised antimony, then left the place with
her shopman and paramour. The Jury returned a
verdict of " Wilful Murder." The friends of the de-
ceased refused to send any one in pursuit after the
criminals, and it was not till after the Magistrates
had entered into a subscription to defray the ex-
penses of the constable's journey that any pursuit
at all was made. The parties, however, escaped,
and have never been heard of since. In Wales
such occurrences are not unfrequent, but they are
not confined to Wales. In England several similar
instances are given, and in some the rural districts
and small towns, as in Ireland, the local con-
nections and associations of the people are so strong
that it is often difficult to obtain through them an
impartial administration of justice. Three years
ago an instance of this sort occurred in De-
vonshire, when a Coroner's jury returned
a verdict of " Accidental Death" in defiance of the
clearest evidence, and
Three cases of unpunished murder were presented to the
notice of one of the Commissioners upon his fortuitous
and comparatively narrow path of investigation during one
fortnight in the counties of Lancaster and Cheshire.
In one of these cases, the murderer escaped, it is sup-
posed, in consequence of the guilty neglect of the con-
stable, who was his relation. Two of the murders occurred
in the the town of Bolton. In one of these cases a man
was savagely assailed in the streets at night, and kicked to
death, under circumstances which could scarcely bare oc-
curred without the apprehension of the criminals, had
there been a proper watch. The other was a case of de-
liberate murder, in which the murderer escaped partly in
consequence of the ignorance of the constable, and partly
on account of the defects in the forms of legal procedure.
Very recently two barbarous murders have been perpetrated
in the open day in the vicinity of the same town.
Many instances are given, too, to prove that
country districts are in general unprotected by the
proper civil force ; that the powerful enjoy theire
rights by their own strength rather by an imme-
diate aid of the law, and that the less powerful, or
those who have neither the means nor the irclina-
tion to incur litigation, or maintain contests, are
often subjected to the most grievous oppressions.
In some classes of cases, from the difficulty of get-
ting constables to serve process, many escapes take
place, and in Manchester even the strongest aid of
the police has been necessary for the enforcement of
legal process, by which the collection of rents and

the rights of property have been maintained. ^lf
we change the names the following might be taken
for a tithe process scene in Ireland ;
Another illustration was presented to us from Seven
Oaks, in the county of Kent, where upwards of 100
journeymen papermakers had determined that they would
pay no poors'-rates for the tenements in which they re-
sided. This determination they gave effect to by beating
off and deterring the peace-officers from the service of prc-
cess. Arrangements were made by which a signal should
be given, and the whole of those workmen interested should
be assembled on any appearance of the constables to levy
any distress. The rioters were in the full enjoyment of
impunity when the matter was brought under the special
notice of the Magistrates, and it appeared to be a case for
calling out the yeomanry, or for employing the military.
Before either course was adopted, it was thought that the
Metropolitan :Police should be applied for. One ser-
geant and four privates of the Metropolitan Police were
sent to the spot, and by rapid action and concert, they at
once succeded in apprehending ten of the rioters. They
were compelled to take with them, by force, one of the lOcal
constables, to identify the parties. He was so far para.
lyzed by fear that he was about to run away, and the ser-
jeant of the police was compelled to threaten to kncck him
down if he again attempted to desert his duty. Had there
been no efficient civil force available, the only alternative
would have been the employment of the military, when
there might have occurred a scene of bloodshed similar
to that displayed a short time before in the same county,
in the conflict with the fanatic foPowers of the madman,
Thom. Experienced officers have expressed to us a con-
fident opinion, that by an efficient Constabulatory Force,
that outbreak might have been preveptel or suppressed
without the bloodshed produced by tiro collision with the
military.
The suppression of highway robberies in the
neighbourhood of the metropolis dates from the ap-
pointment
of an armed horse patrol, and the Com-
missioners state that the roads in the suburbs are
traversed at all hours of the night almost
with the same security as in the day ; but
foot-pad robberies—the robberies of single
passengers committed with violence, are still so fre-
quent as to render travelling in the night in many
country districts extremely insecure.
Mr. Elliott, of the commercial firm of Baldwin
and Elliott, gave in evidence that he had been a
commercial traveller for twenty years, stated that it
was the almost universal habit to avoid travelling
in the country at night, or even after dark ; that for
six or seven miles around London he had travelled
at all hours, riding or walking, and never was in-
terfered with, but beyond that line he should not
do it without he had a very strong motive, and that
if he could travel the roads where there is no
police with the same security he would be able to
save perhaps five days in forty.
Mr. Lindsay Cole, another commercial traveller,
confirmed Mr. Elliott's evidence, and added that a
great proportion of Yorkshire is as bare of pro-
tection as Salisbury Plain, and such is thetlanger
that farmers in the neighbourhood of Leeds had to
wait for each others' company to return home after
market ; and Mr. Thomas Burt, a straw hat menu-
Lcturer, who had travelled much on the Continent
and in England for the last ten years, gave the fol-
lowing remarkable evidence :
Of my own knowledge I may state that the districts in
which I and other travellers feel the least comfortable in

travelling are the neighbourhoods of the northern manu-
facturing towns, as the vicinity of Manchester, where
some ferocious highway robberies have been committed.
One gang was pursued and broken up. One of the
robbers was, I believe, caught and transported. The
neighbourhoods of Bury, Preston, and Rochdale, are felt
to be very bad. A savage murder was recently com-
mitted on a foot traveller, in the vale of Todmorden, on
the road to Rochdale. Another murder was committed
for money, on a foot passenger, near Bolton. There are
two roads, one over Blackstone Edge, the other through
the vale of Todmorden, through neither of which, I ap-
prehend, would any traveller, under any circumstances,
except those of the most pressing emergency, venture
after dark. The character of the lower classes in those
neighbourhoods is barbarous to an unusual degree. The
lower classes in the neighbourhoods of Dudley and Wed-
nesbury are almort as barbarous ; but I have not heard of
the like instances of robberies and violence having been
committed there.

I can hive no hesitation in stating that on the Continent
the security is much greater. It is within my own know-
ledge, much greater on the roads on the Continent ovar
which I have travelled. The many German travellers
with whom I am well acquainted, have stated to me that
in Germany robberies are scarcely ever heard of, and
Prussia is marked as a country free for the traveller. In
some parts of Italy and in Spain, in general,
the roads are
stated to me, by commercial travellers, to be nearly im-
passable. In Tuscany, however, there is a good Govern-