The Sun.
London, England, 1863-06-20 00:00:00

FEDERAL RECRUITING AGENTS AT LEEDS

Mr. FERRAND gave notice that on Monday he should
ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whe-
ther be had received a report from the magistrates of Leeds
relative to agents of the Federal States of America being
engaged in recruiting in that town.
THE PURCHASE OF THE EXHIBITION

Viscount ENFIELD asked the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer whether it was true that in a report sent in lately to
the Treasury, the value of the materials composing the Ex-
hibition Buildings were there estimated at but £30,000, less
the cost of their pulling down and removal, and of making
good the site ; and whether there would be any objection to
lay such report upon the table of the house, previous to a
vote being asked of £BO,OOO for the purchase of such build-
ings.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said th a
he might answer the question in a dry negative, but
that would not be satisfactory to his noble friend or the
House. There was a paper in existence which was evidently
the foundation of the question; but then it was not a report
sent into the Treasury, nor was it an official report. At the
close of the late Exhibition it became the duty of Mr. Bow-
ring, who was secretary to the commission of 1851, to draw
up a statement with a view of placing before the commis-
sioners their exact financial position; and at a subsequent
date, Mr. Bowring drew up a statement intended to place
before the Government so much of the facts as were material,
with respect to a letter addressed by the Commissioners of
1851 to the Government, asking whether the Government
meant to renew the proposal for the purchase of five acres
of land. In making that statement Mr. Bowring sketched
roughly, for the benefit of the Commissioners of 1851 what
in his conception they might have to pay, if they desired to
get possession of the Exhibition Building, placing his maxi.
mum and minimum:price at a great distance from each other.
His minimum he stated at £3o,ooo—(ironical cheers)—and
his maximum at £2oo,ooo—(counter-cheers and laughter)
—and appended to that estimate was a note that it was only
fair to the contractors to state that their estimate of the net
value of the old materials was much higher than that given in
by him (Mr. Bowring). Bat that report was not the report of
a professional valuator, or of one who was professionally com•
petent to give an opinion on the subject. On the other hand,
the estimate as to the value of the building on which the Go-
vernment had proceeded was the result of a most cat eful ex-
amination on the part of a highly-qualified professional
gentleman. He might add that the contractors were under
no obligations to take down the building within the shortest
possible period ; if the Government were to become the pro-
prietors of the site, and if the contractors were to continue
in possession of the building, it would be their object so to
deal with its removal as to pay the most regard to the find-
ing of a market for the materials. Indeed, he felt bound to
state that in that event there was not the slightest pro-
bability, or even possibility of the Government getting
command of the ground for the purpose of raising a struc-
ture upon it, before the summer of 1865. (Loud cries of
" Oh, oh," and " Hear, hear.")
ARTILLERY OFFICERS IN INDIA.

In reply to Colonel SYKES,
Sir C. WOOD said that no actual prohibition had been
issued against the employment of artillery officers upon the
staff in India; at the same time that the tendency of things
was against their being so employed, in consequence of the
great number of cavalry and infantry officers unattached.
GENERAL IVOURAVIEFF AND THE POLISH

that report a bill had been brought in recommending that
the governing body should consist of two ex officio commis-
sioners, and three others, to be named by the Lords of the
Admiralty. It appeared to him that the recent appoint-
ments in the hospital were antagonistic to the provisions of
the bill, which had been introduced in 1861. He thought
it was only fair that the Assembly should have an opportu-
nity of explaining what reforms had taken place, and of
removing the misapprehensions that prevailed on the sub-
ject of the management of Greenwich Hospital. The first
appointment to which he would refer was that of Sir
Richard Bromley, who had been made second civil com-
missioner of the hospital. He had not a word to say against
Sir Richard Bromley personally, but this he would say,
that if it was thought desirable to reward that gallant
officer at the close of a long and distinguished career, that
such reward should have been forthcoming from the public
treasury, and not from the funds of Greenwich Hospital.
(Hear, hear.) And, on the other hand, if the gallant officer
had retired from ill• health, he should not have been placed
in a position requiring services. If, however, one gallant
officer had been appointed for the purpose of carrying out
the improvements of the commissioners, then such changes
should have been made in the internal constitution of
the hospital as would have enabled him to carry into
effect the desired reforms. At present, Sir Richard Brom-
ley, however well intentioned, could not effect any reforms,
as he would be hampered by machinery which, as the late
Sir James Graham had remarked, " had never worked
smoothly since 1829." The next point recommended by the
commissioners was that a considerable reduction should be
made in the number of the officers who had the manage-
ment of the institution, and the bill of 1861. He admitted
that it was necessary to keep a certain number of the offi-
cers for the purpose of upholding discipline and order in
the establishment ; but it seemed to him that such duties
could be performed adequately by a less number than 17
officers, who occupied no less than one-fourth of the whole
building. The claims of officers to admission into Green-
wich Hospital as a place of retirement rested, he believed,
upon those grounds—namely, that for a very long series of
years a large payment had been made out of the prize
money into the chest of Greenwich Hospital. By the Act
of 46 Geo. 111., passed in 1806, and by a subsequent act
passed in 1814, these payments had been made legal—or,
in other words, it had been enacted that no less than 5 per
cent. upon all prize money should be payable into the chest
of the hospital. These payments had entirely ceased in
1829, and since that time no payments on account of prize
money were made to Greenwich Hospital. There was a most
important consideration connected with the claims of offi-
cers to admission to Greenwich Hospital. In 1728, or 100
years before the payments on account of prizo money
ceased, a sum equivalent to the half-pay of all officers em-
ployed in the hospital was ordered to be paid into the chest
of the institution. What he objected to in all matters of
this kind was the transference by the Crown of its own
obligations to the funds of Greenwich Hospital. He
wanted to give the house an idea of the tendency of
public departments to throw off its own liabilities to any
institution the resources of which happen to be at their
disposal. In the year 1859, when the commission
was sitting, the Admiralty made a proposition to
the hospital commissioners to pay at once, out of the
surplus income of the in-pensioners, one-half the surren-
dered pension of the out-pensioners, for every man, upon
admission to the hospital, relinquished all claims to his pen-
sion. The commissioners replied that the carrying out of
such a proposition would be a misdirection of the funds of
the charity. (Hear.) He ventured to say that no pro-
posal of the Chancellor of the Exchequer to bring the
charities of the country under taxation ever equalled in
magnitude this proposition of the Admiralty. Now, he
would show that the results had been of the internal
management of the institution by contrasting the cost of
maintenance in 1805 and 1859. 1 he cost of maintenance of
2,410 pensioners, 144 nurses, and some other assistants, in
1805, was under £69,206 per annum. The cost of the es-
tablishment under the head of salaries for civil and naval
officers, repairs of the hospital, &c., in the same year was
£21,837. In 1859 the maintenance of 1,676 pensioners
(which was 30 per cent, less than in 1805) 100 nurses, and
71 sick attendants was £50,910, being £18,296 less than in
1805. The cost of the officers, repairs of the hospital, &c.,
in 1859 was £48,667, or £26,830 more than in 1805. W bile
the number of pensioners had been 30 per cent. less, the
cost of the establishment had been more than doubled. The
hon. gentleman then referred to other recommendations of
the commissioners, principally dwelling on the necessity of,
providing house accommodation for the wives and children
of the pensioners. He believed that for a sum of £12,000
house accommodation could be provided for one hundred
families in the vacant piece of ground adjoining the hospital.
A plan of this kind would remove the blot which had long
rested on this magnificent charity, and would go far to im-
prove the standard of morality in the navy. (Hear.) In con-
clusion, he wished to know whether her Majesty's Govern-
ment intended to introduce a bill this session embodying
the recommendations of the commissioners, and whether
the Admiralty intended to carry out those regulations which
they could enforce propria motu, and without any legisla-
tive action. (Cheers.)
Mr. STANSFELD said it could not be denied that the
subject introduced by the hon. gentleman was one of great
importance, and that the report to which he referred con-
tained many valuable suggestions. The recommendations
contained in that report had enabled the Board of Admiralty
to effect many improvements in the hospital ; and he would
frankly state, on behalf of the board, what further changes
they thought it desirable to make, and also where they felt
themselves bound to stop ; bat before he entered upon this
statement, he would revert to two preliminary questions—
the first was, the original intention of this great national
institution, and of its founders, or, in other words, what was
the original scope of the intention of the founders, and how
far it had been carried out. In the second place, he had to
consider the question how far the military establishments
might be said to have diverted, or rather perverted, the
funds of the institution from being applied to the objects
originally intended. Now, he had no desire to make out a
case against the one stated by his hon. friend ; but he would
set out the history of the institution, in order that the house
might understand the question with which it had to deal.
The hon. member then referred to the charter of Wm. 111.,
under which the hospital was founded, and to the several
Acts of Parliament which had been passed from time to time,
and he expressed his concurrence with the view of his hon.
friend that that charter and those acts, taken in their en-
tirety, yet subject to modifications, must be held to constitute
the foundation deed of this great national charity. And what
was the construction to be put upon that deed ? The true
construction to be put upon it was that it left open to the
Lords of the Admiralty to extend to the very widest limits the
benefits of the foun lotion, and to decide with respect to the
priority of all claims upon it. As to the benefits of the
charity having been diverted in these later years, that was a
question of fact which must be solved by a reference to dates.
The hon. member then referred to a return which gave the
comparative number of officers and pensioners on the esta-
blishment for several years, beginning with the year 1705,
tLe year the institution was opened, and ending with the
year 1840. In the year 1705 there were 100 pensioners and
six officers upon the establishment, and in 1840 there were
1,783 pensioners and 20 officers, However, in 1862 two lieu-
tenants and one commandership had not been filled up, so
that the number of officers was reduced to 17. There was
no doubt that, according to the very oldest charters, the
presence of officers in the institution was recognised, while
in several of the acts of Parliament special reference was
made to them. But farther, he was there to maintain that li
the officers had solid grounds for consideration, in the fact
that they had been all along contributing to the capital
flied of the hospital. From the first they had contributed
the monthly sixpence as well as the men—they had also
contributed five per cent. of their prize money, and one-
fourth of the freightage which would otherwise have fallen
to their share. The hon. member referred to the great im-
provements which had been recently introduced in the con-
dition of the pensioners. Additional gratuities had been
given to the men at a cost of £lO,OOO a year—while during
leave of absence they received the money value of the pro-
visions they would have consumed in the institution. Then
the widows of seamen were employed in the establishment,
and the maximum superannuation allowance was raised to
£25. In the next place, he enumerated all the improve-
ments which had beer introduced in the arrangement of
the establishment; He did not deny that it might not
be more economically conducted; indeed, it was his
opinion that the expenses might, could, and ought to be
reduced. In the comparison of the establishment
charges of 1805 with those of 1859, the increase of re-
pairs, wages, and other matters had to be taken into ac-
count, and that ';would greatly reduce the difference be-
tween £21,000 and £48,000. There were 500 servants re-
ceiving wages, but the majority of them were pensioners
and the widows of old pensioners who it was thought de-
sirable should receive some extra reward. He was not there
to withdraw, on behalf of the Duke of Somerset, the opinion
he expressed two years ago when he introduced his bill in
reference to Greenwich Hospital ; but he must remind the
house that that measure did not meet with a favourable
reception in either House of Parliament, and the Board of
Admiralty came to the conclusion that it would be better to
exercise the powers they possessed, and ascertain before
they came again to Parliament how far those powers would
carry them, The appointment of Sir R. Bromley was in the
spirit of the recommendation of the Rcyal commission.
They recommended a financial committee, and who was so
well qualified as that gentleman to fill that office ? His
energies and abilities were well known, and his reputation
ensured his efficient discharge of his duties. The present
condition of the wives and families of the pensioners cast a
slur on this great national institution, and they were a re-
sponsibility on the shoulders of the Admiraltyof which they
ought to be relieved, and he could assure the house that in
the shape of an increased allowance to married men, the
board hoped to be able to accomplish some good in that
direction. Next to the wounded seamen there could be no
class of persons who had greater claims on the considera-
tion of the country than their widows. Provision would be
made for their relief outside the hospital, and next week he
should ask leave to introduce a bill to empower the Admi-
raltyschemes
theirhad
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had been a more practical one submitted to the hour
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to succour
with great pleasure
the statement made by the hon. member for Halifax, and

it showed that he had, in the short time he had been in
office, made himself master of the question, He rejoiced
to find that the bill proposed two years since was not to
be again brought before the House He looked on the
measure with mistrust, and the Admiralty had acted
with much wisdom and prudence in dropping it. He
doubled if the Admiralty required further powers. The
As) lum might be conducted with greater economy, and
the Government had power to do so without further
legislation. He confessed he should be sorry to see
the whole of the recommendation of the Royal
commissioners carried out. He deplored the differences,
which amounted to scandal, that existed between the civil
and military authorities at the hospital, and he hoped means
would be taken to prevent its continuance. The governor
was a useless sinecure, and he thought the best plan would
be to make a naval commander the superintendent of the
hospital, who should diacharge the duties of governor. He
approved of the appointment cf Sir R. Bromley, and ex-
pressed his opinion that a better man to discharge the duties
of his office could not be found. He was glad to find that Sir
Richard Bromley's past services had been recognised by the
Government, but the remuneration allowed to him was not
so liberal as he could have wished. From 1754, when the
charter was first granted, down to the commissions of 1775,
1809, and 1840, over which latter the Duke of Wellington
presided, the principle had always been held that disabled
officers of the navy were to have precedence in the distribu-
tion of patronage. There were two funds available for the
institution—the freight money and prize money, the former
of which amounted to £400,000 ; and although it might be
admitted that reforms might be necessary, and also increased
economy, he trusted that no change would be made in the
system of appropriating the appointments to naval officers
who during active service contributed to the funds.
Sir J. HAY animadverted at some length upon the pre-
sent system of appointing retired officers to situations in
Greenwich Hospital, not on account of the selections being
personally improper—on the contrary, they were highly
satisfactory—but because he thought when naval officers
had performed good service to their country they ought to
be pensioned by the country, instead of being rewarded out
of the funds of a charitable institution like Greenwich Hos-
spital. It was not right that there should be 1,100 seamen
in the various union workhouses of the country while the
funds of the hospital were exhausted in maintaining an
overgrown establishment.
Mr. BRISCOE also condemned the practice of allowing
seamen to remain in workhouses, and regretted that a girls'
school was not provided in connection with the hospital. If
it were not attended to he should bring the subject before
the house next session. ,

After a' few words from Mr. ANGERSTEIN and Mr.
INGHAM,

Lord C. PAGET defended the appointment of naval
officers, and maintained that it would be unjust to deprive
them of a benefit which they had enjoyed since the foun-
dation of the institution. It was no doubt a very costly
establishment, and its management was also costly—but if
they were to attempt;to conduct it on purely politico-eco-
nomic principles, they had better shut it up altogether.
Like the Temple of Janus, they should close it in time of
peace—but in the event of war it would be filled with
cripples after a general action. His hon. friend (Mr.
Briscoe) was wrong in supposing there was no girls' school
attached to the hospital. There was, on the contrary, a
school for 50 girls—lint he admitted that it was capable of
improvement. Every seaman in the navy knew that he
was entitled to the hospital, and that he had only to esta-
blish his claims to secure the privilege.
Mr. Alderman SALOMONS replied that claims were one
thing, the rules of admission another. He knew of an in-
stance where a seaman, 80 years of age, could not obtain
admission to the hospital, although he had subscribed to
its funds for 12 years, and had been in several actions.
Mr. LINDSAY complained that while Mr. Stansfeld
admitted the value of the report, his whole speech was de-
voted to show why the Government should not aot upon
it. The noble lord admitted that there was no intention on
the part of the founders to give an asylum in the hospital to
officers, yet he asked the house to go on permitting another
invasion of the inten' ion of the founders. The Government
had set themselves against every measure of reform—they
had shown themselves opposed to reform that night—they
had given fifty examples of it on previous occasions.
The subject was then suffered to drop.
THE ORDNANCE SURVEY.

Mr. DIGBY SEYMOUR begged leave to call attention
to the unsatisfactory position of the civil assistants em-
ployed on the ordnance survey, with reference to promo-
tion and pay—and to ask the Under-Secretary of State
for War, whether there was any prospect of the same prin-
ciple of classification being adopted in their case, which
had been attended with such good results in other depart-
ments of the public service.

The Marquis of HARTINGTON referred to the reply
formerly given by Lord Herbert to a similar question. The
Government saw no reason to alter the system in operation,
which had worked excellently.
The LORD MAYOR supported the claims of the Govern-
ment employes in question to promotion and increased pay.

. .
Mr. MOFFATT also urged their claims on the favour-
able consideration of the Government.

Sir S. H. PETO said the Government ought to classify
fairly all they employed, pay them adequately, and let them
provide for a future day, instead of the Government under-
taking to pay them pensions.
After some observations from Mr. CARNEGIE and Sir E.
GROGAN, the subject dropped.
SUFFERERS BY DANISH REPRISALS IN 1807.
Mr. MACAULAY asked whether the Government could
lay upon the table a statement showing the value of the
Danish property and fleet seized in 1807 ?
Mr. F. PEEL said there was no objection to their fur-
nishing all the information in their power, but it would be
exceedingly difficult to estimate the value of Danish men-
of-war seized so far back.

The motion for goiag into committee was then agreed to,
and the house having gone into committee pro forma, im-
mediately resumed.

The Harwich Harbour Bill passed through committee.
The Removal of Irish Poor Bill passed through commit-
tee.

The Militia Pay Bill was read a third time, and passed.
The Charitable Uses B!11 was read a third time, and
passed.

The Mutiny (East India) Act Repeal Bill passed through
committee.

The Local Government Supplemental (No. 2) Bill passed
through committee.
The Inclosure (No. 2) Bill was read a second time.
The Watchmen in Towns (Ireland) Bill was withdrawn.

SPORTING INTELLIGENCE,

:STOCKBRIDGE RACES.-FRIDAY.

The Uxbridge Plate (handicap) of 50 says, added to a
sweepstakes of 10 says each, 5 ft, for all ages. Bush in.
18 subs.

Lord Uxbridge's Liston, 3 yrs, 6st 81b (Thomas) 1
Mr. Morris's Indolence, 3 yrs, 6st 1016 (S. Mordan) 2
Mr, Hodgman's Confusion, 6 yrs, 7st 516 (Perry) t
Marquis of Hastings' Garotter, 2 yrs, 6st 7th . . (Deacon) 1-
Confidence and Mrs. Trimmer also ran.:
Betting-6 to 4 agst Confidence, 3to 1 agst Liston, Gto
1 agst Confusion, and 10 to 1 agst any other.
Some 30 minutes were consumed at the post through the
antics of Mrs. Trimmer, who resolutely refused to face her
horses, and was left behind. Confusion made play, with
Confidence and Liston in close attendance into the bottom,
where the former gave way, and Liston, coming out, took a
clear lead, followed by Indolence, the two racing horse
together, Liston winning by a head. Garotter caught Con-
fusion in the last stride, and finished witd a dead heat for
third, the pair being four lengths in rear of Mr. Morris's
colt ; the others beaten off.

The Railway Piste of 50 sous, added to a sweepstakes of 5
goys each, for 2-yr-olds ; colts, Bst 101 b ; fillies and geld-
ings, Bst 71b; selling allowances. T.Y.C. 14 subs.
Mr. W. Day's Atftelia colt, Bst (X 100), (S. Adams) 1
Mr. Hodgman's Dilston, Bst (£100) (Perry) 2
Mr. Night's Nathalie, 7st 111 b (£100) (Judd) 3
The following also ran :—Aunt Judy, Belle of the Vale,
and Evelina.

Betting-7 to 4 agst Nathalie, sto 2 agst the Amelia
colt, and 100 to 15 agst Belle of the Vale.
Prince Soltykoff's filly cut out the work, with the Amelia
colt, Nathalie, and Dilston at her quarters, into the straight,
where she was headed by the Amelia colt, who came on
with a slight lead, closely attended by Nathalie and Dilston
at the distance, where the latter headed the favourite and
challenged the leader at the stand, but failed to get up, and
was beaten cleverly by a neck ; two lengths separated the
second and third—Evelina was fourth, and Belle of the Vale
next. The winner was sold to Young King for 205 guineas.
The Visitors' Plate (Handicap) of 100 sous, added to a
sweepstakes of 5 sews each. One mile and a quarter.
Mr. Payne's Bandage, 4 yrs, fist 121 b
Mr. W. Day's Kingswood, 3 yrs, 6st 21b.... (S. Adams) 2
Lord Palmerston's Spencer, 5 yrs, Bst 91b (Fordham) 3
Buckenham and Tippler also ran.

Betting-2 to 1 agat Tippler, 3to 1 each agat Bandage
and Kingawood, 6 to 1 agat Spencer, and 10 to 1 agat
Buckenham.

Bandage jumped away with a commanding lead, fol-
lowed by Spencer, close up with whom were Kingswood
and Buckenham, Tippler being last, to half way up the
hill, where Buckenham dropped into the rear; Tippler then
emerged from his rearward position and joined Kingswood,
who took the second place in the bottom, but was never
able to reach Mr. Pay ne's mare, who won in a- canter by
four lengths ; Spencer was a bad third, the others did not
pass the post.

The Danebury Nursery Stakes, a free handicap of 10 soya
each, 5 ft, with 200 added, for 2-yr-olds. T.Y.C. 20
subs.

Mr, G. Solomon's Aunt Judy, 6st 121 b (Peppler) 1
Mr. W. G. Craven's Young Rapid, 7st 81b (Morgan) 2
Mr. Powney's Lady Williams, 7st 31b (Judd) 3
Mr. J. B. Starky's Izaak Walton, 7st 41b (H,Grimshaw) 4
Black Friar, Echo, Oberon, Royston, Mail Train, Red
Cap, The Tyke, Lifebuoy, Verbena, Pyrrha, Warwick, and
Dermott Asthore also ran.

Betting--7 to 4 agst Lady Williams, 6to 1 agst Young
Rapid, 7 to 1 agst The Tyke, 8 to 1 agst Echo, 10 to 1 agst
Izaak Walton, 100 to 8 each agst Lifebuoy and. Dermett
Asthore, 100 to 7 agst Red Cap, 100 to 6 each agst Verbena
and Warwick, and 20 to 1 agst Mail Train.
Aunt Judy was the first away, and made the running
at a good pace, followed by The Tyke, Black Friar, the
favourite, Izaak Walton, Echo, Royston, and Young
Rapid, with the others going close up. As they passed the
bushes hill they closed up, and descending the hill the
leading division spread, and came on into the dip nearly in
line, Aunt Judy, who lay on the extreme left, had a trifle
the best of it as they crossed the road, Lady Williams being
in the centre, with Young Rapid, Izaak Walton, Red Cap,
and The Tyke on her right. On reaching the distance
Lady Williams was in difficulties, and in a few strides
further Young Rapid headed her and challenged Aunt
Judy. The pair ran together to the end, and the filly run-
ning the longest won by a head ; three lengths between
the second and third, and a neck between the third and
fourth; Black Friar was fifth, Red Cap sixth, Mail Train
seventh, and The Tyke next. Royston and Echo were the
last two.

The Gentlemen's Derby of 100 sovs, added to a Sweep-
stakes of 10 sovs each, for d-yr-olds and upwards;
weight for age, with winning penalties and maiden
allowances ; gentlemen riders only. Two miles. 13
subs.