The Sun.
London, England, 1839-06-01 00:00:00

,TIVENING EDITION

tier cheers
• and laughter ) Wi.h the kinsmen, the des.:
tandems, end the representatives of the aacestry, or rather
°I. these who, leseause thsy w .uld no• sub,ripe to this
Freed, refused to be Meister; •in 1812. That I should
Ilire to hear it said—let us rally round the Queen—never
mind Lords, or Commons, or people—throw principle to
the
ainds—abandoti our opinions—renounce our pledges,
1 and set at defiance both Houses of Parliament. In 1839
ye cry is, forG.-d'e sake rally round the Sovere;git on the
,!'rnne. The Prince on the throne is the object of
all our veneration. lam old enough to recollect George
the Third swaying the sceptre of these realms with undi-
' mintshed popularity, which was rather increased with his
years ; and I recollect looking back with sornethin, very like
content upon the principles put forNard by the N,,ble Lords
When
I now see ran'ed on the other side of the House,
When they attempted to corer over their faults and gloss
over their errors by constant appeals to the sympathy of
the people on behalf of the good old King. It' ever there
was an election the cry was, never meld the Catholic
question—never mind Reform but think of your good old
King, broken down by sekness and laimuring under the
load of years, who has lived and reigned fur half a century
--this is the vsry jubilee of his reign (as was the case on
this
occasion, he being then 50 years on the throne) and
Lals was their mode or stopping ail objections. But it was
not the Whigs who dial that, on the contrary, if there was
One -thing more than entailer they held in abhorrence, it
was the name of the good old King, and I must also add,
that they always contemplated and ridiculed it as being
°Ylsocritical. Because they knew very well what the
good old King meant—they knew very well that the good
old King meant my good old pe !sien, my good old place ;
and that God save the King meant God save my pension—
fitnics of laughter, in which the crowd of Meenbers be-
ow the 'oar heartily joined)—and that long live the Go-
vernment, and long live the King meant, may the Minis-
try last lone, enough to give me a better place and a better
psnsion. I reeellect a friend asking what Mr. Tierney
had been speaking of in the H ,use, and the reply was, tha,
11. had been talking all night of the good old King, and if
e )gong Prince had ascended the Throne, it wool I have
been the good young Prince; and had the Princess
Charlotte been called on to preside over the destinies of
ethtecountry, then it would have been the good and inter-
in young Princess. Then it was said, the day will.come
When the Tories, the unconstitutional Tories, the place-
loving,_, place-hunting Tories, the King-loving Tories, the
absolute-monarchy-loving Tories will think every thing
Made for the King, when the people are to be accounted
?lathing. My Lords, these are great changes, and the topic
1.4 a most important and a serious one. What is the con-
°Nequence of the state of things we are now placed in ? The
elinistvrs have lust the confidence of Parliament, but the
Queen won't change two Ladies of the Bedchamber.—
tlear, hear.) Now, will standing by the Queen get
back the confidence of the: House of Commons ? I
don't believe a word of it. The House of Commons are
tensible, rational men, and nothing but a change in the
measures of the Government will win back the confidence
they have lost. But what becomes of the state of affairs
while Government is fishing for that support? The Jamaica
Measure was a most important one—it was so impor-
tant that the Government staked its existence upon it,
acid thought itself obliged to resign. My Noble Friend
tuen brings forward another measure, retaining the same
°Pinions, stating that the other was the right measure and
the present awrong one. If so why should he abandon the
Other? Oh ! but, says my Noble Friend, the whole his-
tory of the abandonment of one proposition and the choos-
-41,a of the other—all that is changed, and why ? Because
the Queen will not change the Ladies of the Bedchamber.
That's the case. It seems ludicrous, but it is not my fault.
am stating their casein their own language, but can they
reconcile it to their consciences to adopt a measure for
41tmaica contrary to their consciences. They say
that
the other measure was the right one and that
this
is wrong, and why, then, do they bring it for-
ward ? Not because their opinions were changed—not
because their consciences were seared, but because a
sSuabble arose about the appointment of two ladies of the
Bedchamber. Canada was so important a subject that it
Was alluded to in the Queen's Speech, and formed the
tuh.lect of a Message from the Crown. I put a question
,? illY Noble Friend the other night, and received the sa-
`ulfactory answer that a measure was preparing, and
,uuld be brought forward, unless circumstances occurred
prevent it or make it desirable that it should not be
_Drought forward yet.—( Laughter.) Does not every man
!etsith half an eye that the question is not upon the
,a merits
_of the case ; but that it is with respect to the
1...5r. dies of the Bedchamber, and whether by a system
u Court intrigue, they could weather the storm.—
(Hear, hear.) Ireland also called for their attention,
arid here I would relieve my Noble Friend opposite from
the belief tha' there is any connection between the -Char-
tists and the Ribbonmen. He may repose this evening in
Perfect comfort, for there never was any dream so visionary
at the idea that there was any connexion between the Char_
:rs and the Ribbonmen. I don't mean to say that the
iilshartists are to be despised—l don't mean to say that
there: is
are not in existence, but, at all events,
he e: is no connexion between the two, but if there
Noww°Y, it is matter of opposition and hostilit y.
Nowt all those matters required a sort of activity and vi-
gour
,‘ 011 the part of the Government, and therefore, to ob-
ttiin: that strength and vigour, it was necessary that the
iir I
ernment should make some alteration in its measures.
have already stated, the Ministry had lost the
confi-
dence of Parliament, and I ask was that likely to overawe
the Colonial Assemblies or put them down ? Asa humble
',9..dividual, not much acquainted with the mysteries of
Court intrigue, I should say not. How would it act with
respect to our foreign affairs ? This is the first time in
the history of this country, at all events since the Revolu-
tion of 1688, that ever a liberal and constitutional party,
and more especially a Whig party, advanced the principle
that the Crown was every thing and the Parliament and
9,e people nothing. That's their position. When I said
51
_this place on the 20th of Dec , 1837, on the Civil List,
~1_
nulamtel was very averse to the constant use of the Queen's
Noble width had recently come in vogue—l recollect my
time Friend used some very remarkable expression at that
and
upon that topic. He said he hoped he would
never
see the day when the Crown, as a substantive and
independent portions of the State, should be brought into
an unconstitutional collision with the ether estates of the
realm, This is now the position in which we stand—the
whole origin, beginning and end of the late change, and
the new present presumed Government. My Lords, this
is the first time that it has ever been proclaimed in Eng-
land, or even in Europe, that such is the Constitution of
this country. We now find that the confidence of Parlia-
ment goes for nothing, and that the Ministers won't allow
a lady to be removed ; but when they know that this state
of things must have an end—when they feel well assured,
as every man must feel, that this state of things cannot last
for ever, and that in a short time the cry will be put down,
and truth make its way—if the Government don't change
its course, and don't consult the feelings and the wishes of
parliament and the public—every man can tell them that
this state of things must have an end, and that the power
of Parliament and the people must prevail. I put it to
Your Lordships, and I put it to my Noble Friend near
me, and if the Noble Lord at the head of the Foreign De-
partment was near me I would put it to him, what chance
Is there of a successful—a firm, a vigorous, or an in-
HOUSE OF CO—MMONS, MAY 31.
dependent negotiation being carried on in any in-
'stance by a Government standing in this position. The SPEAKER took the Chair at the usual hour.
My Lords, rotten must be the foundation of the Govern- DIVORCE BILLS.
'rent which stands upon such a basis. One word more On the motion of Mr. FR ESHFIELD, Napier's Di-
upon what I take to be the most melancholy, if not the vorce Bill was read a third time and passed.
least important circumstance connected with this unfor- On the motion of the same Hors. MEMBER, the House
tanate position : it is no fault of Parliament—Parliament went into Committee on Lardner's Divorce Bill. Counsel
has spoken fairly on the question—it is no fault of the and witnesses were heard in support of the Bill.
Queen; she is and must be, from her age and the cir- On the CHAIRMAN putting the question that the
cumstances in which she is placed, a comparatively inex- preamble of the Bill was proved,
Perienced person; she has reigned barely two years, Mr. LEFROY objected to the motion on the ground
but those who were about her were bound to have that the evidence that had been brought forward was only
informed her of the solemn, ancient, known, and established hearsay.
principles of the Constitution of this country. All courtesy Sir ROBERT INGLIS considered the evidence per-
Should Le shown to her, all imaginable tenderness should fectly sufficient to support the preamble of the Bill.
be evinced for her feelings—every conceivable excu-e Mr. ELLIOTT thought that the further consideration
ahold be made, even in this most difficult of all positions, of the Bill should be adjourned, in order to afford an op
but with all the reverence and tenderness, with the most portunity to have the evidence printed.
profound respect and veneration, of the most devoted cha- Sir JAMES GRAHAM considered that the evidence
racier, the duty remained rising and towering above all ought to be printed.
these petty considerations—the duty of men, of statesmen, Mr. MILES thought that a sufficient case had not been
of Ministers, of sworn advisers a duty the more made out upon the evidence to enable the House to pro-
imperative upon those who have been her first ceed further in the Bill.
Councillors and the advisers of her earliest youth— Mr. FRENCH had not heard any reason suggested
more imperative still on those to whom she had ever proved for delay. This was an undefended case—( Hear, hear)
the most confiding, the most gracious, and the most kind of —and therefore sonic substantial reason ought to be given
Mistresses. What was that duty ? To tell her that the Con- for putting the parties to the expense of keeping their wit-
etitution knew of no such impediments—that the Leerier of tresses in town.
the Government should be opposed by the wife of the Mr. BETH EL L'S mind was completely made up on
Leader of the Opposition, that that was a thin, unknown hearing the evidence of the first witness, who stated that
to the Constitution of this country, and that it the parties were locked up in one room, morning, noon,
was a state of things carefully to be avoided if possible. and night, without any third person being with them.—
My Lords, if for the lack of the requisite information, that ( Hear, hear.) He thought that evidence was conclusive.
most illustrious and upright and high-minded Princess Sit G. CLERK said the only course that could be
shall be brought into collision at the b Tinning of her adopted with satisfaction, was that suggested by the
reign, with the wisdom and the will of Parliament, a bad Honourable Member for Roxburghshire.—( Hear, hear.)
service will have been rendered by bad advisers, by hal A watchful eye ought always to be kept on an undefended
Councillors, by flatterers, and worthl,ss parasites, if any ease.—( Hear, hear.)
such there be, who have done it, but which I deny the Mr. WA R. BURTON thought it was a very great mis-
possibility of believieg._( Gceat laughter.) It, cannot fortune that that House should be called upon to interfere
be, for I know my Noble Friends in office, and they are in such cases, and as a general rule he thought it would
quite out of the question—they did not tender that advice, be much better if they relied oil the authority of the Lords,
but whoever has done it, will have done a bad service and who received evidence in these cases on oath. He
a fatal service to a confiding, and amiable, and upright disliked the proceeding altogether. On the dis-
Mistress.—(Hear.) How much the more was this to be limo ground that that House was not a comP te-
avoided in the case of a Princess just called to the throne, tent body to form a jury, he for one was willing to pass
and when her reign will then have begun in the most in- the Bill upon the proceedings which had been takers be.
auspicious of all circumstances, by a personal coldness and a fore the Lords.
personal alienation between the Princess and the people— Mr. GRE ENE agreed with the Hon. Member that
between the Crown and the Perliament. I know the system was altogether bad, but he could not agree
that my
Noble Friend who leads the Government is the
last man in with him that it was competent for that House to pass
all England to be anxious about retaining office. I know the Bill on the evidence taken before the House of
it from his personal character arid habits, and I believe tha.t Lords.
neither himself nor his Noble Friends wi:l make any
free of principle to retain their places. They
ssahcorvie-
whetherCHAlßMANhe
hadanyr thenurthe e
further
aled in Counselevidencel to
oadd and inquireducebefore
the
such things, but there are others who may counsearthem Committe
eaalsosi said that he was not then prepared
e.
others who are hungering and thirsting after power— Mr. H
those who have the appetenq arising from possessionfrom before the, and with any furtCohermmitte evidencee
in the House. Thero hadof bLordsn, he was een oe witness
those who have the still greeter lust of place
seeing it at a distance, and who Wye oily heard of its solicitor, and detained ha London at a very great ex-
sweets without having tasted of its bitters. My Noble pence to the party, and as the evidence was in his
Friend would d well to put himself above ti king counsel ( Mr. Harrison's) opinion so conclusive, he had advised
from such advisers. My Lards, I know the consequences his client that there was no necessity for his farther
of all this, and this it is which creates the anxiety with attendance. The evidence he had given upon oath before
which I have all along viewed the, question, and which in- the other House was an admission of the fact, both
dueed me to address your Lordships. The principles of iby the adulterer and Mrs. Lardner. The House
but under the peculiar circumstances
the Monarchy will be put to a sever-, t„t, be you assured ; of Lords were very jealous of receiving admission in
of that,—( Hear.) Don't, then, let it be tried too severely, ; such a case,
\
till, peradventure, it may snap asunder.—( Hear.) The .of the present case, they had admitted the evidence as
upon
nmbtheer
Noble Lord thinks there is
pa conspiracy against the Mo. I conclusive. Acting upon that impression he had not con-
narehy—ti,2 • are people ready to pull it down and to 1 sidered it necessary to call that witness.
t there .
bring about the, destruction of all Royal. Government. It 1; Mr. ELLIOT
_could nion:toapgerreetowpietshs
may be so; but I believe they are few in number and not 1 for Bridport, that it was
respectable in point of more h y.
thought that there
I were under any appreheos
Monarchy from t 1 power or capacit But if , evidence offered to the House of ththeellßoinll.
Lords. Those who were sit-
was suc a Party, and if I ting at the other end of the House, and had heard the evi-
lloss of an assault upon the ! deuce, bad distinctly stated that in their opinion the pre-
' he efforts of that party, I vow to God 11. amble had not been proved.
' could not look with any thing but the mhoasttlseern
is listened to the evidence, and was
ious affright, i Sir E. WILMOT had listen
d.,
'and dismay at the idea that the t e about to not at all satisfied that the
atartn, •
be f veilt after such an unw s,
0 ~,, ,
should almost say reckless course
that we arc at present, I am afraid,
. .
ttreeeting the Government of the preamble was,prove , but then
ise unprecedented, and I he was ignorant of what the Learned Counsel had since
shall have been taken, as stated, which bad made him alter his opinion.
on the brink of taking,
ed taken i .
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw. On our re-
country on a bedchamber admission, we found Mr. Gurney reading the notes which
qtearrel, ead bringing
of Parliament D
the personal feeliaigs of the Mouarch he h
-. r. LUSHING TON gave it as his opioion that the
' - into collisom with the wishes and toe will
me....... ..................F.,.......•

(Caecrs ) God avert this omen 1 but upon my mind, i
waif I have more explanations, the alarm will te great.
The Noble and Learned Lord resumed his seat amid loud
cheering from the Opposition Benches.
The Duke of WELLINGTON did not rise to offer
any observations or comments upon the speech of the
N6ble and Learned Lord, nor did he like to interrupt
the temper of the House by any observations he might be
disposed to make in matters in some degree personal to
himself. He assured their Lordships that he felt in the
matter exactly as he had felt when he addressed them about a
fortnight ago, and he thought he bad reason to feel to-
tally indifferent to the reports that had been circulated
elsewhere. He must say, that in the commencement of
these transactions he had totally-and entirely acquitted the
Noble Viscount from having had any concern in t e cir-
culation of these reports. He had so expressed himself
when he last addressed their Lordships, and he
had reason to believe what he then said to be cor.
rect. But since that very time when he had
last addressed their Lordships he had in his pocket the
address of a relation of the Noble Viscount to his consti-
tuents, but he relic f upon what had been stated in another
place the previous night, and he fully believed that that
Hon. Gentleman had made the statement without informa-
tion ; but he would go a little further, and say that even if
the Noble Viscount had given that information he felt an
utter contempt for the reports that had been circulated.
With respect to the other matters alluded to by the Noble
and Learned Lord, he (the Duke of Wellington) was one
of those who never thought that the Government had, on
the 7th of that month, any very good reasons tor resigning
their offic .s That was his opinion at the time, and that had
been his opinion ever since, anti he was still convinced
that his judlment upon the matter had not been at
all erroneous.—( Hear, hear.) In fact they could have
carried on the measure with respect to the Government
of Jamaica if they pleased. The Noble and Learned Lord
said the present was a wrong measure, and that the former
was a right one ; but that was a matter for the Government
to defend and not for him.—( Hear, hear, hear.) With
respect to the answer given by the Noble Viscount to the
question put by his Noble Friend he had little to say. He
was in the habit occasionally of giving his sentiments and
opini • 'ons to the Noble Viscount, and he would now
earnestly recommend to him to persevere in the intentions
he had announced in the course of the discussion that had
taken place. Let him honestly discharge his duty in the
Government to the country. He had failed in
carrying on the measures which he had proposed to
Parliament on a former occasion —but let him
persevere in performing his duty in Parliament, and out of
Parliament, and let him trust to the good sense of the
Parliament and the country for support. Although he
diff 'led with the Noble Viscount on many questions, he
thought he might venture to say, that he would find Par-
liament would not desert him if he honestly and sincerely
discharged his duty as a Minister of the Crown.
The Marquis of NORM ANB Y said that allusion having
been made, not only to himself, but to one nearly con-
nected with him, he felt it his duty to make a few obser-
vations to their Lordships. The Noble and Learned
Lord had talked about the slander and misrepresentation
which had been made use of elsewhere, but he would
repeat to the Noble and Learned Lord the words in which
he had referred to himself, and he would then tell him that
it must have been in a moment of inadvertency that he had
used them; but if he still adhered to them they were as
gross a misrepresentation of facts as ever had been ad-
dressed to any Assembly. The Noble and Learned Lord
alluded to certain ladies in attendance upon the Queen,
and he had termed them " agents" in the transaction. He
had used these very words. —(" Hear, hear," from Lord
Brougham.) And the Noble and Learned Lard had also
stated that the Government had resigned their places
merely until their wives and sisters could prevent the for-
mation of an Administration by others. And he would
boldly tell the Noble and Learned Lord—
Lord BROUGHAM—The Noble Marquis has quite
mistaken my meaning. He must have seen that I was
merely arguing upon what was the inevitable consequence
of such a state of things. But if any Noble Lord in the House
except the Noble Marquis supposes that I have used an ex-
pression which could be construed into an aspersion upon
the character of any Lady connected with her Majesty's
Household, I should most readily apologise.
The Marquis of NO ANBY—The Noble and
Learned Lord used the word " agents."
Lord BROUGHAM—Yes ; agents, and operators,
and Statesmen, tend women too.—(Great laughter.)
The Marquis of NOR M ANB Y said that however pain-
ful,and difficult, and delicate it might be, he felt it necessary
to render some explanation to their Lordships how one of
those connected with him were at all involved in these trans-
actions On the day that the resignation of the Government
took place he had had a conversation with his Noble Friend
on the subject of the Ladies in attendance on her Majesty,
and on that occasion he had stated to his Noble Friend
behind him, that, if there was any doubt as to the power of
her Majesty to retain the Ladies in attendance upon her,
that he considered his communication would place Lady Nor-
manby in a different position, and the moment any intima•
tion was made to him, of course he should act upon it.
The resin ation took place the next morning, and the
letter received from him was the first intimation Lady Nor-
manby had of any difficulty having arisen, It was conve-
nient for those who had taken up the line of the Noble and
Learned Lord, to mix up private relations with the prin-
ciples which were contended for, that it was improper
to dispossess her Majesty of that part of her Household
which never before had been dismissed.—( Hear, hear. )
He could not avoid alluding to what the Noble and
Learned Lord seemed to consider an unfortunate event
arising from this conduct. Ho stated that a Government
was formed which had not the confidence of either House
of Parliament, and regretted the occasion had been lost
for forming a strong Government. He thought the an-
swer of the Noble Duke opposite would be perfectly satis-
factory to the country ; but if it was necessary to have a
more direct authority, he might appeal to what was said
by Sir Robert Peel He felt all the difficulties of his
position, and the whole of his argument was that he had
not the confidence of the House of Commons.—(Oh !)
Had no trial of strength taken place since then—
(Laughter from the Tory benches.) Within the last
few days a clear indication had taken place
that if the Ministry did not possess a very large majority,
Sir R. Peel and his party were in a decided minority.—
( Hear, hear.) With respect to Jamaica, be had always
felt very strongly on that subject. He always considered
the experiment of negro emancipation could not be carried
out without the temporary suspension of the Legislature,
and the event seemed to prove that he was right. He
trusted they would now be able to provide for the interest
of both parties in that island. He must, before he sat
down, correct a mistake into which the Noble and Learned
Lord had fallen in supposing that he was the only one
who had adhered to the principles of Reform.—
( Laughter.) When the Noble and Learned Lord alluded
to his great anxiety to support the principles of Reform,
he (Lord M.) could not see that he was practically giving
the best proof of it by endeavouring to produce the resto-
ration of a Tory Government.
Lord BROUGHAM explained.
The Earl of WINC HIL SE A briefly replied, and the
House adjourned at Half-past Eight.