The Sun.
London, England, 1839-05-31 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY, MAY 31. 1839.

Mr. O'CONNELL then moved for a return of the
amount of sums received by the Honourable the Society of
the King's Inns in Dublin since February, 1832.
Dr. L ENZ.° Y had no objection to a return of the
money which issued from the public treasury, but objected
to returns of the private property of the Society.
Mr. O'CONNELL said the returns he wished were
only in continuation of those which had been ordered
in 1832.

After a few words from Lord Morpeth, the Solicitor-
General, and Dr. Lefroy, the motion was agreed to.

RECORDER OF DUBLIN.

Mr. O'CONNELL then rose to move for a return of
the number of days the Recorder of Dublin sat for the
trial of prisoners in each year for the last five years.
Dr. LE FROY trusted the Hon. and Learned Member
would not press that motion while his Right Hon. Friend
the Recorder was obliged to be absent. He did not anti-
cipate that his Right Hon. Friend would make the least
objection to the motion, but the moving for the returns
might involve some statement that his Right Hon. Friend
might wish to answer.
Mr. O'CONNELL would accede at once to the sug-
gestion. In making this motion he had no intention of
saying anything in disparagement of the conduct of the
Learned Recorder—( Hear, hear)—nor bad he any ground
for assailing his conduct--it was the system of the Court
he (Mr. O'Connell) wished to laring- under the attention of
the House. —( Hear, hear.) He would, however, postpone
his motion till that day fortnight.
Mr. CR ESS WELL then rose, to call the attention
of the House to the Petition of Liverpool Merchants, pre-
sented on the 14th February, and to move, for a return of
the amount of duties paid on the export of manufactured
wollen goods to the United States of America, since the
year 1815 :—for copies of the several Petitions and Me-
morials on the subject of such duties presented to the
Lords of the Treasury, the Board of Trade, and the
Board of Customs: And for copies of the several
Minutes and Orders made by their Lordships or the said
Boards, respecting such Petitions and Memorials.
Lord SA NDON seconded the motion.

Mr. P. THOI4SON had no objection to the produc-
tion of the papers referred to, but protested against the
House expressing any opinion, until they should be laid on
the table, when this would be found to be a most trumpery
case. The duty had been ordered to be paid back to the
parties who should prove they were entitled to it.
It would not be just to pay the money to the party without
any security that he was entitled to receive it. The au-
thority from the party who had a right to demand it was
therefore refused to be produced. When the papers were
produced, he (Mr. P. Thomson) would be prepared to
enter fully into the subject.
Lord S ANDON said Dr. Burnaby and Sir S. Linh-
ington had given it as their opinio that the view which
the Government took of the subject was erroneous. He
hoped the House would not be misled by the insidious ad-
vice of the President of the Board of Trade to delay the
expression of any opinion upon the question.
Mr. HUTT said he trusted the Government were sin-
cere in their professions of readiness to pay this money to
parties who made out their title to receive it. He consi-
dered that there was no department in the state which re-
quired greater attention and severer scrutiny from that
House than the Board of Customs.

Mr. THORNLE Y said there might be some reason in
delaying to express any opinion till the papers were pro •
duced. But the Right Hon. President of the Board of
Trade was quite incorrect in speaking of it as a
" trumpery" case—on the contrary, the conduct of those
who had resisted this payment had been " trumpery"
indeed.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. FINCH was of opinion that the :Loney ought at
once to have been returned.

Mr. CRE SSWELL replied.
The motion was agreed to.

REMOVAL OF VOTERS.

Mr. MILNER. GIBSON moved for leave to bring
in a Bill to prevent persons in England and Wales from
losing their votes at an election by removal after the
preceding registration. He would not enter into any
discussion, because he did not believe there would be
any opposition to his Bill.
Leave given.

EXPORTATION OF GOLD.

Mr. THOMAS ATTWOOD rose to call the atten-

tion of the House to the recent large exportations of
bullion, and the consequent contraction of the circulating
medium of the country, and increase of distress among
the industrious classes ; and to move a resolution upon the
subject. There had taken place a reduction of three mil-
lions of bullion in the stock at the Bank within the last four
months, and the exportation still continued. The conse-
quence was a general contraction of the circulating
medium of the country, and distress and ruin were the con-
sequence, except where counteracted by particular circum-
stances. The country was by bad legislation placed in
such a position that when gold was exported a similar con-
traction took place in the paper money. It was like an
unskilful surgeon, who having opened an artery in
the right arm of his patient, when he found he
was sinking from the loss of the vital fluid, instead
of binding up the right arm, should open another
artery in the left arm also ; the country still laboured
under the fallacy that the issue of paper money was wrong,
now he contended that there never had been any distress
occasioned by the issue of paper money. That unhappy
Law, that gigantic error ( Peel's Bill) imposed a necessity
upon the Bank of England of pulling down the foun-
dation of the circulating system just as it had begun to
alleviate the distresses of the country. He would make
use of another figure, suppose a fisherman pulled a plug
in the bottom of a pond, where the fish were enjoying
themselves, and left them in the mud ; as soon
as he had got enough, he put the plug in again, and
the remainder of the fish swam about and enjoyed
themselves until the fisherman came again and pulled
out the plug, and thus was the country served. The
Right Hon. Baronet and the Noble Lord had been playing
the part of fishermen for the last twenty years, and de-
ceiving the people. He wished to apply a remedy
which should be substantial and real, he was convinced the
country could not longer stagger on under the golden
standard without coming to a very awful state of things.
The diminution of bullion in the nine months preceding
the panic of 1837 was not more than it had been during,
the last four months. This was a subject deserving the
most serious consideration, as the exportation still con-
tinued, as there was a largo premium in carrying gold
both to Hamburgh and Paris.—( Hear, hear.) How will
the House deal with this? Will it, like the unskilful
surgeon, force the Bank of England to lessen its
circulation of paper, and carry ruin and distress to thou-
sands. Ile warred the House against this conduct, knowing
the misery and exasperation which existed in England and
Scotland. He would say, let the standard perish, but let
the people live. He wished the money to be accommodated
to the wants of industry, instead of industry being forced
to accommodate itself to an unjust standard of value.
Unless the House interfered by timely correction, the con-
sequences of the exportation of bullion would shake the
whole country to its centre. The Bank of England had
no power of itself to remedy the evil, because they were
obliged to pay the demands upon them in sovereigns of
full weight, and if they did not do so the Sheriff of London
would take possession of that great establishment.—
( Laughter.) Parliament alone had the power to prevent
the evil. The whole distress of the country was attribute
ble to the fluctuations in the currency, and the Imperial
Legislature alone could remedy that by making enactments
for the extension of the circulation of paper money.
The fluctuation of the currency had been the cause of the
establishment of the Political Union at Birmingham, and
the golden standard had caused the whole distress of the
country. The Hon. Member then read an extract, from
what he termed a celebrated petition of which all Hon.
Members had heard of—a petition which had not yet been
presented, signed by 1,200,000 distressed and overburdened
persons, who complained of the grievances under which
they laboured under the present system, when capital oh
tallied no profit. and labour no remuneration. lie trusted
the House would attend to these warnings in time. What
had driven the Right Hon. Bart. the Member for Tam-
worth from office ? It was not a petticoat phobia, but
a paper phobia. Let them but repeal that infernal
Money Bill and all would be well. Let that House bear
only a little common honesty, and keep their infernal
claws out of the pockets and fi om the necks of the people.
--( Roars of laughter.) There never could be too many
honest men in England. He begged to apologise for
having detained the House so long, and hoped there would
be no objection to the resolution which he now begged to
submit.
Mr. WALLACE seconded the motion.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL did not think it necessary
to detain the House by any lengthened observations,
because the Honourable Member had only brought
forward, in the same manner as he had done
before, that question in which he had differed not only
from the Government, but also from almost every other
Member of the House. The Hon. Member's proposition
was, that they should have a paper currency, not conver-
tible into a gold and silver currency. If it was a matter
of fact, he (Lord J. Russell) would move the previous
question ; but as it was matter of opinion, he would simply
say no to the motion.—( Hear.)
'Mr. WA LL ACE bad seconded the motion, because he
thought the statements of the Hon. Member had been
made in a very manly and straightforward manner. The
subject was a very delicate one, and he feared it would
never be taken up by any Chancellor of the Exchequer.
He believed it was a fact, as had been stated by the Hon.
Member for Birmingham, that the Bank of England had
not in its coffers so much as would pay 2s. 6d. in the
pound.
Mr. WARBURTON thought the proposition a very
indelicate one.—( blear, hear.) It was a proposition to
pay a debt of 20s. in the pound with ins., and then to pay
a debt of Ws. with 18s., and so on.—( Hear, hear.)
Whenever a proposition of that sort was submitted to the
House, whether it came from Whig, Tory, or Radical, he
should feel it his duty to resist it.
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Mr. WILLIAMS felt hound to deprecate the return to
a paper currency. He thought the issue of bank-notes, in-
stead of being extended. should be restricted. He trusted
the Government would not lose sight of this important
question, which caused such changes in the value of
property.

Mr. ATT WO OD replied. lie denied that it was his
wish to rob the public, all he wanted was, that gold should
find its own value like every other marketable article.
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, but no divi-
sion took place, the resolution being negatived without
a division.

On the motion of Mr. BRADSHAW, the following
returns were ordered :—a. Return of the bums paid, or
directed to be paid, to Sir Francis Head, as Lieutenant
Governor of Upper Canada, as outfit, pay, or allowance.
Return of the number of Non-commissioned Officers and
Soldiers tried by Courts Martial, General, District, or
Regimental, for the three years ending the 24th day of
August, 1833 ; and a further Return of the same nature
for the *rev following years, describing the nature of the
crimes and offences brought before the several courts.

CUSTODY OF INFANTS.

On the motion of Mr. Sergeant TA L FORD, the Cus-
tody of Infanta Bill was read a second time, and ordered to
be committed on Wednesday, the 12th June.
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of,
and the House adjourned at Half-past Eleven o'Clock.

Prince's own words, containing his own account of his own
actions. If Colonel Prince had been an ignorant person
—if he had been a man of imbecile understanding
—if he had been a man not accustomed to defend himself
and to defend others—if he had been an unlettered and in-
experienced, and feeble advocate in his own cause, he
( Lord Brougham) should then have doubted that his
Noble Friend had pursued the best course for his defence.
Then he would have thought the arguments and state-
ments of the Noble Lord himself better fitted to the pur-
poses of that defence. He thought of one thing no person
could have a doubt—that the man who made that speech
wrote and corrected it for the press, for it could not other-
wise have been prepared with such accuracy unless they
had reporters of after dinner meetings of a very superior
description to anything known in Europe. But be that as it
may, it was one of the nioststriking, one of the ablest defences,
and one of the most touching narratives he had ever read.
—( Hear, hear.) The more touching and the more striking
because made by an eye witness, and an actor in the
scenes he described. Consequently, of one thing he had no
right to complain—that he was condemned by him, ( Lord
B.) without a hearing—or that he censured his conduct
behind his back. For if he (Col. P.) were in that House,
he could not do better than his Noble Friend had done,
for they had his own case in his own words, by his own
arguments supported, and by his own narrative made clear.
Now came the rest of the case which their Lordships had
not heard. And first of all as to the verdict of the com-
pany, to which his Noble Friend had not at all alluded.

He said at all events, he had the opinion of those whom he
addressed with him, for they received his defence with
great acclamation. He should have been better satisfied
if that verdict had been given on the spot where the occur-
rences took place. The dinner was given at Toronto, where
the matter had not taken place, where they took Colonel
Prince's own statement of the matter, and where they
knew aslittle of it as their Lordships sitting at Westminster.
They knew nothing personally of the affair, they had his
own statement of facts and they had the result of the in-
quiry, to which he should presently refer. He did not
think an appeal from the clear and undeniable law of the
land, from the justice an administered under that law by
its Courts, and from the sentence pronounced by the Go-
vernor himself, he did not think it a ♦ery becoming thing
to appeal from those tribunals to the verdict of an after
dinner meeting, met for the very purpose of doing honour
to the party accused. Nor did he at all approve of, or
think it a right course of argument to adopt, to read as had
been done, in vituperation of the Government of Canada,
the resolutions passed in Canada, which, as he did not
deny, attached the greatest blame to that Government,
called for more vengence under the law, complained that
so few men had been executed, and pronounced a severe cen-
sure on the Government for granting mercy to one
set of men, and for not having another set of them
executed. He (Lord B.) was bound to say also, alike as
to this as to every Government, that until he heard the
grounds on which the Government had proceeded, he was
bound to suppose that the Government and the Courts of
Law, and the Executive, in the execution of the Crown's
prerogative of mercy, were in the right, and that that meet-
ing which censured and condemned them were in the
wrong. What should any man say of a meeting held in
Westminster or Middlesex, complaining that A, B, and C
had not been brought to trial, and that D, E, and F had not
been executed, and calling for the execution of all the men
in the disturbed districts, simply because those other men
had not been executed ? He supposed Noble Lords sitting
in that House on his left hand were not so anxious to de-
fend Colonel Prince as to condemn their own Government
in Canada, that they might support such a wild proposi-
tion as that. But he would say, that the Courts of Law
and the Government of Canada were to say who were to be
considered guilty, and not the people ; and he
would tell his Noble Friends, if they would learn that lesson
from him, that it was the Government that were to judge
of the grounds on which, anVthe manner in which the
merciful prerogative of the Crown was to bo exercised.
Therefore it was he treated as very light the argument that
there was great discontent prevailing in the Colony, because
of the execution of so few men. But his Noble Friend had
said they had given notice--they had served a warning on
the Government that if they did not hang more men—if
they did not gratify the public by the execution of more
of the people, they would be obliged to take retributive
justice into their own hands. Would the Noble Lords,
the members of her Majesty's Government go along with
his Noble Friends opposite, so far as to agree to that?
Would they agree that if the Executive did not execute so
many men as ttie people considered ought to be ex-
ecuted, that then the law was to be taken into
the hands of the mob ? That would indeed be
what we had been accustomed to denominate with
horror and with scorn the Lynch law which prevailed in
some of the most savage parts of the wilds of America.
And that was the short of it—if the people thought more
executions ought to take place than the law decreed, then
the Government was not to protect them from being shot.
Lord EL LENBOR.OUGH said that the Attorney-
General's opinion had been taken upon this case.
Lord BROUG HAM was coming to that. He would
certainly say for himself, that he could not be to blame for
not having been able to expect or foresee that any such
defence could possibly be in the possession of Colonel
Prince's defenders. How any lawyer could ever dream
that it was possible for a man calling himself a lawyer, and
exercising the office of Attorney-General to give such an
outrageous opinion as had just been read, he was wholly at
a loss to conceive. He was, however, more surprised at it
than some of their Lordships seemed to be, because some of
them cheered the opinion as it was read. Their Lordships
were the highest judges—the judges of the last resort in all
criminal cases. In their hand was placed the administration
of the criminal law ; and he heard half a dozen of them—
the Judges presiding over this very Court—cheer the
reading of an opinion which he would venture to say was
one of the grossest outrages upon all law which had ever
been put upon paper, not only by a lawyer, but by the
most ignorant man in the kingdom. It was bad from be-
ginning to end. It was absurd and monstrous. In pro-
portion to the outrage of the opinion so the cheers were by
the Judges surrounding him. The first part of it was that
thoso men were foreigners, therefore they owed no alle-
giance to the Crown, and could not commit high treason
within the provinces. There was not a lawyer's appren-
tice who did not know that that was outrageous. Colonel
Prince himself was once an attorney on the Oxford Circuit,
which he left to go to Canada, and there was not an
attorney's apprentice who did not know that a foreigner
might came into a country and commit hif,b treason. But
then it went on to state that they might be treated as out•

laws. Did ever any man hear before of a man being an
outlaw except after a writ of outlawry had issued against
him from a Criminal Court ? But supposing they had
been outlaws, did that entitle Colonel Prince to shoot the
men ? Every person who had read Blackstone knew that
if he (the Noble and Learned Lord) were to meet and
kill an outlaw in the street be should be guilty of murder
and hanged for the act. Yet the Attorney-General of
Canada had said they might be treated as outlawed, and
shot upon the spot, which was a doctrine utterly and abso-
lutely groundless in point of law. But his Noble Friend
had not read what he (Lord B.) dared to say existed,
some answer of the Secretary of State denying that law.
Lord ELLE NBO ROUG H—Not a bit of it—it's not
denied at all. —( Hear, hear.)
Lord BROUGHAM could only say, then, that no time
ought to have been lost in informing the Attorney-Gene-
ral that that was bad law. But the case did not rest there—
there was a great deal more in it, and Colonel Prince's
own professional habits had led him not to state what
would make against him. As he (the Noble Lord) had
said before, he would rather have appealed to the vicinage
where the thing happened, than to Toronto, where it did
not happen ; and he was able to show that a very different
verdict wrs given on Colonel Prince's conduct by those
who saw and who knew the transaction, and by those
amongst whom he lived, than was given by the people of
Toronto. He was about to read Colonel Prince's own
letter, dated Bth December, 1838, to Mr. Robert Mercer.
Mr. Mercer was one of those who signed an allegation
against him to the Government, and which was signed by
twelve others—by Lieut.-Colonel Elliott, five Justices of
the Peace, and eight others. Colonel Prince seemed to
have been on very intimate terms with the family of the
Mercers, and the son of Mr. Mercer was actually his Lieu-
tenant—in speaking of whom he stated that he had always
treated Lieutenant Mercer with the greatest respect, and
he had never had a word to say against him. Lieut. Mer-
cer took a very different view of Colonel Prince's conduct ;
in writing to him, Colonel Prince stated, in reference to the
persons among whom he had lived—" The contemptible
and ungrateful people with whom I have had the misfor-
tune of being connected for the last fire years. Assure my
quondam friends that I treat their expressions and opinions
with the utter contempt which ignorance, ingratitude, and
prejudice arc ever deserving." This was in answer to the
allegations made against him by some of his quondam friends
as he called them. He did not like to appeal to the
verdict of those friends, contemptible and ungrateful per-
sons, among whom he had had the misfortune to make his
fortune; but he appealed to the absent, and to the igno-
rant Toronto man, who had met to celebrate the circum-
stance of his putting persons to death. Then, as strong
words beget strong words, Mr. Mercer, in his answer, '
said, " You are at perfect liberty to cast off your quon-
dam friends, as you call them, as it may save them the
trouble of doing the same of you." Colonel Elliott was
Colonel Prince's senior and superior officer, and he headed
the representation to Sir George Arthur. Mr. Charles
Elliott, Mr. Baber, Mr. Askin, and Mr. Wood signed it.
To whom was it likely to look for the character of those
who had signed that representation ? He Lord
Brougham) would look to Colonel Prince himself
and of them he said—they having been all in the battle—
" in the battle they behaved with the greatest gallantry
throughout the whole of their conduct." Now the ac.
count of this matter sent by them was accompanied by
four affidavits. Colonel Prince observed a prudent gene-
rality in his statement. He did not confine himself to the
time—the time being the very essence of the matter, and
the question being whether it was during or after the
battle, although he said enough to convict himself. He
said those five men were put to death by me--
I shot them upon the spot during the anxious expectation
of an attack, or when we were marching to meet the
enemy. Did the Noble Duke opposite, he would ask,
ever during the whole of his career, in the course of an
anxious expectation of an attack, think he had the power
of ordering five prisoners to come to head-quarters, there
to have them shot, because he was in anxious expectation
of an attack ? Or did he ever thinkit necessary to put to
death upon a march, prisoners who had surrendered that
they might not be shot? and yet that was Col. Prince's own
statement. But the fact was, that it was after the attack
was over,that those men were shot, except one, as appeared
from the statement and the oaths of those persons, one of
whom being a district judge.
The Marquis of NORMANBY, in rising to order,
reminded tho Noble Lord that the Court of Inquiry had
distinctly negatived all the aggravated circumstances which
were stated in the charge against Col. Prince.
Lord BROUGHAM could only say that if that were
correct the Court of Inquiry had given a very extraordinary
decision, and which showed that although they might be
very good officers they were very bad Judges, because he
would read the judgment they had given. They said,
" As to the invidious colouring. which characterizes the
detail of facts in the Address, not in any way sub-
stantiated by the evidence." Did that negative the
facts ? Did that deny the substance of the charge ?

Lord WHARNCLIFFE—What is the finding?
Lord BROUGHAM—The finding was no finding
at all. They had only Colonel Arthur's account,
they had not published the finding. The Noble and
Learned Lord went on to state that from the evi-
dence of thirteen respectable witnesses, it appeared
that the following cases of butchering, in cold blood, had
occurred. A prisoner, who had surrendered to Colonel
Prince, was ordered by him to be shot on the spot. Col.
Prince had pursued a very injudicious course; for in one
account he had stated that the prisoners were shot in ex-
pectation of an attack ; and in another, that they had been
shot at the close of, and immediately after, the engage-
ment. It had been made a matter of complaint against
Colonel Prince by those who had exclaimed against these
executions, that he had not acted with sufficient prompti-
tude for the suppression of the brigands; and that
when it was offered to put them down by a few volunteers
only, he had persisted in waiting for a regular reinforce..
ment. One prisoner had been dangerously wounded,
and was brought before Col. Prince in a main street of the
town ; he cried out piteously for mercy, but the Colonel
ordered him instantly to be shot. An officer standing by,
struck with the atrocity of the order, thus addressed the
twelve soldiers who were about to put it in execution, " You
scoundrels, are you going to shoot your prisoner ?" at the
same time telling the prisoner to " run for it," which he
accordingly did, but was shot dead as he was flying,
in the presence, too, of some ladies and children.
Another man, severely wounded, was desired by an
officer to be reserved for due course of law ;
but Col. Prince, with an oath, exclaimed, " Shoot the
rascal." The Colonel was informed that a wounded man
was lying in a neighbouring house ; he instantly ordered
him to be shot. There was a similar case, which had
not been adverted to by the Court of Inquiry at all. He
(Lord Brougham) need not assure their Lordships that he
would not say a word in extenuation of that system of
brigandism which had been practised on the frontier, with
so much of outrage from such predatory and sordid
motives—in a manner so revolting and so murderous,—
accompanied by circumstances of every aggravation.—
( Hear, hear.) His very blood curdled within his veins,
when he thought of a frontier, liable to such outrages,
through the neglect of the American Government, which
forfeited its title of Government, if it did not protect
unoffending citizens from cruelties like those which had
been practised on Dr. Hume, who was barbarously
mangled in a way too horrible even to relate.—
( Hear, hear, hear.) But a man might be guilty
of the most atrocious crime, and yet to kill him
might be an offence no less than murder, if not
done in due course of law. The case which he had
just alluded to was that of a man who, having surrendered
to a British officer, Colonel Prince had marched fourteen
miles and then ordered him to be shot. This could not be
called " during the heat of an engagement." The lan-
guage which Colonel Prince used now was, " I deeply
regret that I did not shoot every scoundrel as he was brought
in." If the Colonel had done so there might have been a
stronger case in his favour, but he had not done so : he
had shot them coolly and deliberately. Colonel Prince
went on to say, " Nor shall the solicitations of
sympathisers on the one side, nor the threats of
murderdrs on the other, nor the cowardly apprehensions,
miscalled humanity, of any individuals, deter me from pur-
suing this course in future." By the " cowardly appre-
hensions, miscalled humanity," Col. Prince meant the re-
monstrances which some well-disposed gentleman had
urged to prevent his putting to death seven prisoners who
had been spared by the Indians, and whom Col. Prince
had ordered to be shot ; but, on these solicitations,
had consented, with reluctance, to spare. Now,
the law was so clear upon this subject, that he
(Lord Brougham) would not have adverted to it
had not some Noble Lords appeared to manifest an igno-
rance of that law, as utter and complete as the Attorney-
General of Canada.—(Laughter.) If he was told on the
most credible of all evidence—on the testimony, for in-
stance of the Noble Duke ( Wellington), or the Noble
President of the Council (Lord Lansdowne)—that a man
had committed a very atrocious murder—nay, did he wit-
ness the murder himself—nay, still further, did he see
that man convicted of the murder in a court of justice—
nay, beyond all this, did he see him upon his way to legal
execution ; and even, in any of these cases, even in the
last, be could put no stronger—were he to kill that man,
he would be guilty of murder. Sir G. Arthur, however,
the mealy-mouthed Governor of Upper Canada, had
talked of regretting that Col. Prince should have been
led to " anticipate the result of legal proceedings." The
law knew of no such title for the unauthorised
killing of any individual, and called it " murder."
And to speak, as the Noble Marquis (Normanby)
bad, of " disapproving" of the crime of murder, was much
too lenient language. He (Lord Brougham) was bound,
at the same time, to add that he believed Colonel Prince
had been greatly misled by the erroneous opinion of the
Attorney-General of the Province, unrescinded as it was
by the Home authorities. He had now stated what he
considered to be the circumstances of mitigation, and also
of aggravation; and having done so, he would leave it to
their Lordships to pursue that course which they con-
sidered would be most effectual for the purposes of justice.
The Noble and Learned Lord concluded by moving for
the papers of which he had given notice.
The Marquis of NORMANBY deeply regretted that
the transaction to which the Noble and Learned Lord
had referred had ever taken place, and he as deeply
lamented that the Noble Lord had gone into the statements
he had done. He felt bound to resist the motion because
he believed it to be unprecedented, and one which, if ac-
ceded to, would do the greatest injustice to the party prin.
' cipally concerned. With fraspect to the fifth case to which
the Noble Lord had alluded, that of Captain Broderick, he
was in possession of the distinct avowal of thirteen witnesses
that they knew nothing of it, and with respect to Colonel
Elliott, he had approved of the proceedings of Col. Prince.
Lord BROUG HAM—To a limited extent.

The Marquis of NORMANBY said it might be to a li-
mited extent. However much he disapproved of the course
pursued by Colonel Prince, he was anxious that his case
should be fully brought before the House. Nobody re-
gretted more than he did the transactions that had taken
place, but he could not agree that Colonel Prince was
to blame alone, for he had but an imperfect control over
the party by whom those atrocities had been committed.
Now, a great deal depended upon the real facts of the
case, and that being his opinion he would very shortly
advert to them On the morning of the 4th of Decem-
ber, Colonel Prince was roused by au alarm that
the town of Windsor was then in the hands
of brigands ; upon receiving that information he
collected 150 men, and started at once for that place.
He saw a considerable number of brigands in the grove be-
hind the town, he attacked and took several of them pri-
, sonars. and afterwards receiving information that Sand-
wich was also in possession of the brigands, he retired,
according to his own expression, in double quick time, to
that place; and under the impression of impending danger,
and considering that he had no place to retreat upon, he
ordered the prisoners he had taken to be shot, such was
the real state of the affair. With regard to the motion it-
self, he had not the whole of the proceedings, but if be
had, believing it to be unusual for Parliament to call for
proceedings before courts-martial, he did not think it would
be fair to Sir G. Arthur, who had done everything in his
power to carry out the wishes of the Government, to allow
the proceedings to be produced, and he therefore should
oppose their production.
The Duke of WELLINGTON said that his object in
addressing their Lordships was to remind them of the
situation in which the House stood on the present ques-
tion. They were not exactly proceeding in their usual
course of justice in discussing a question of this description
at the present stage of the proceedings. The Noble and
Learned Lord having beard of these transactions the day
before yesterday, came down and represented his opinions
upon it. His Noble Friend:near him had thought it to be his
duty to make known to their Lordships some circumstances of
which he had obtained a knowledge, and the Noble Secre-
tary of State opposite had stated that the Government had
pronounced then their disapprobation of the proceedings.
That was the way in which the question stood on Tuesday.
Now their Lordships had the whole case before them, a
case, it must be recollected, that occurred six months
ago, and one which involved the conduct of the Governor
of Upper Canada. If Colonel Prince had misconducted
himself as a military man, in his opinion he ought to be
tried by a court-martial, and not by proceedings in
that House. Could justice, he would ask, be done to an
individual after a discussion like the present had taken
place in that House ? His Noble Friend near him had
stated to their Lordships the nature of the war that had
been carried on—a war which he had already anticipated,
and one that was a disgrace to this country. Because if
Parliament would not adopt measures to protect the
Queen's subjects on that frontier, the honour of this
country required that they should withdraw from it.—
(Cheers.) He knew that at the present moment guards
and piquets were kept in the whole line of the frontiers,
from one end of the eountry to the other, and if by any
accident the guards were withdrawn, persons called
brigands came across the frontier, and ransacked and
burned the houses and destroyed the property of the inha-
bitants. He had already recommended to their Lord.
ships to provide a force to put down these aggressions.
He had recommended that troops should be sent down the
St. Lawrence, but that course not having been adopted
the aggressions had continued, and were likely to
go on unless regular troops were sent there.
He thought it was impossible to carry on the war in the
manner in which it had been carried on without a repeti-
tion of such abuses.
Lord G LEN ELG said that he remembered the Noble
Duke expressed the same sentiments that had fallen from
him on this occasion last session. It had been observed
that the Attorney-General of Canada had given an opi-
nion upon this transaction, and that there was no allusion
to that opinion in the answer he (Lord G.) had sent to
that despatch. Colonel Prince did not rest his defence
in the slightest degree upon that opinion, but he (Lord
G.) would say that it had been before the Government,
and under the consideration of the ;Crown; lawyers in
this country had been consulted on the subject—it had
been the subject of three months' correspondence, and the
opinion here was that such persons as those, being aliens,
could not be treated as traitors. _

Lord BROUGHAM greatly rejoiced in bringing this
subject forward, if it were for nothing but having
drawn from the Noble Duke an authoritative
opinion upon the detestable warfare that was
now going on upon the frontiers of America. He trusted
the great name and powerful reasoning of the Noble Duke
would not go in vain to America, but would cause that
Government to rouse itself up to suppress the outrageous
conduct that some of its citizens on the frontiers were
guilty of, and it was because he had always been extremely
favourable to the Americans, that he made these obser-
vations.
After an observation or two between Lord NOR-
MANBY and Lord ELLENBOROUGH, which were
inaudible in the gallery, the House adjourned at eight
o'clock.

NATIONAL EDUCATION.—Lord Brougham
will present the Piece of Plate voted to James Simpson,
Esq., Advocate, of Edinburgh, at Willis's Rooms, on Sa.
turday, the Ist of June, at Twelve o'clock. The Com-
mittee respectfully invites the attendance of the friends of
National Education. The meeting is expected to be very
interesting. Admission free.