The Sun.
London, England, 1837-12-13 00:00:00

j, bad been beyond the reach of censure—nay, it had been above
11 praise. Nevertheless they were not met for the mere
Purpose of passing compliments to any one however exalted
—if they were anything more than a mere pageant—if they had
any object in view—if they were not met as a mere formality,
they must be made acquainted with what was the real income
of the illustrious Duchess of Kent before they agreed that it
should be augmented. He believed that he might put the
question to any of their Lordships, without receiving a
satisfactory answer.—( Hear.) Looking at the Statutes, it
was almost impossible to say whether that income was 16,000/.
or 22,000/. He was performing a very disagreeable duty—one
in which he was sure of being misrepresented ; still his duty
compelled him to go on. By the statutes of 1831, the Duchess
of Kent was allowed 4,000/. for her own life, and 6,000/. for
the proper education and maintenance of her illustrious
daughter. That was a charge which had now ceased, and
according to the spirit of the law that charge ought to cease. If
the House agreed to the address, they would preclude themselves
frern opposing any grant which might come from the other House.
If a grant had been asked for any of the princes of the Blood—
for instance, during the reign of George I l I—before the
Civil List had been arranged, it would have been said, " How
can we legislate in the dark upon this matter, before we know
what provision may be made in the Civil List, and which may
supersede the necessity of any parliamentary grant?"—( Hear.
Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Kent was Queen Mo
ther—

."Ne, not Queen Mother ; the

Lord MELBOURNE—'
a
e.„
mother the'Queen."
'4 • -
Lord' humbly bested lihnself before his
more -eiperierieed corrector. He confessed. fie was bat rude
in speech, Is:till-Ver.:30 in krises of . courtly etiquette. -His.
Noble 'Prierielr had'So -Much More rec-entlybeen • accustomed to.
the language of courts than he had, was so much more ofithe
courtier, hi 4 tongue`Wis so well hung, and framed and at-
tuned tee courtly' airs he Was Vs•- much better acquainted with
the motions of theSSO who glLeed: and fawned and bent the knee.
in courts, flit lin( Lord 'Brost:glam) could not preten'd for a
moment- to dOinpete with the Noble Viscountin such mat-
tiers, or to prerehd tri•-• anything like the same. accurate
knotiledge 6-feourtlYpi:rasehlogy. He, however, knew the dif-
ferencelbetweenn-quieSn mother, and the:mother of the QUeen,
perhap'S as -well its fhlesN-Bhlts The! expression bad-
eippeet from him.. But her ReYO.liighaeis the DuChess Of Kent
was so :nearly nonelected with the Throne that it might be:
a question; if 'frernsth-e' Civil 'List ample proiision would not
Le made for her ;at all e', eats, the absence of any iefertiiis
tion,• and the refu4alol' eine infernaa.tion'upon this subject, their
Lordsltip. .iinless'indeed their office was merely to
say ea.orred, tio Whit i,vanf;.tiated'to item front ()flier quarteri,
to 'pledge -themselves to any perCculer course, et ithont having
been satisfied. ,hat it was just to themselves and to the coun-
try.—( Hear, hear.) He hoped their Lordships would reflect
befliredt was too late, upon (he would not use any strong ex-
pr. scion) the anomaly and absurdity, and extraordinary nature
of such proceedings, as the House of Parliament was now called
cn to propose—namely, in the dark and necessary state of
ignorance in which they were placed, to decide in prospective
upon what he trusted might, and he hoped would, be a very—
very long perioch—a long and happy course of years—he
meant for fifty or sixty years, to legislate in one sense,
finally and irrevorabiy—for the present arrangement
must be taken as a part and parcel of the whole.
It was after the arrangement of the Civil List—and they
were called upon because they had done it heretofore—in
a case %%holly different, and diametrically opposite,
when the Sovereign was of a very advanced age, and
when they had only to legislate for a few years—they were
called on now to legislate fur half a century, while they could
not tell what the value of money might be in five or six years,
reuele less in 50 or 60—when they could not tell what
the price of anything` which might possibly contribute
to the state and dignity of the Crown—when they
could not tell what the state of society might be, and when
they were in dark, and of absolute necessity in utter, ignorance
of every particular, to tie then,s4ves and the country up to a
eel tlin arrangement. That seemed to him a comae of pro-
c..eding, which, if it had not the sanction and authority of
precedents, no man of sense, nor no man who filed the situa-
tion of legislator, would ever have adopted. What was done
on the last occesion, namely the accession of George 111.,
was not the least discouragement, but, on the contrary, no
little encouragement of the course he now suggestedebecause
ie two years, Parliament bad been called on for an additional
grant, and in nine years, a second additional grant was
made. They would ob.-terve, also, how it bore upon
the country. If too much were granted there was no
chance of abatement. It was that sort of coo pact in
which one party was fast, and the other was loose—
if too little were granted it was a matter of course to supply the
deficiency ; but if it was the former cane, he did not believe that
the most sanguine person in Parliament or in the country would
segg( st the abatement of the provision that had been made.
le hoped, before tin? arrangement was finally agreed upon, that
provision would
.he made for its being revised and alt 'red,
and that the answer fur the next half century to any one
competent to object, would not be the answer that lee ( Lord
B.) had heard since he came into Parliament—'. Oh ! it's a
bargain ; and, until the chniise of the Crown, the grant
eanont be revised or altered."--( Cries of " Hear, hear.")
In case it should be found necessary to support the digrity of
the Crown then it could be continued, but in ease it should be
found to have become too much, another arrangement should be
made fitted to the change, and adapted to the new accession.
hese were considerations all affecting the Civil Ust, which
would not come before the House until after the recess ;
hut, at all events, being se intimately connected with that
ia:por!ant subject, which must come before their Lordships,
lie felt he could not avoid making these observations for the
purpose of calling the attention of their Lordships and of her
Majesty's Government to it. No person could feel more sen-
sibly than himself how painful it was to enter into these things.
No person had a deeper sense of the dignity and the incom-
parable qualities of the individual who had been so frequently
named, than himself. No person would more unfeignedly
rejoice than he should, if upon the examination of the thing--
-if upon. enquiry—it should be found necessary to give the
augmentation required by the Message ; but it was the duty of
their Lcrdships not to act with their eyes shut, but to see
the grounds on which they gave a pledge, before that pledge
was given.
Ldrd MELBOURNE was extremely sorry to think that he
should. have been at all misled himself, or that he should have
misled any others by the short statement he had made, and
appearing- to withheld any information which their Lordships
ought to receive before coming to this resolution. He admitted
to hiS Noble'Friend and to the House, that this Address would
pledge, and was intended to plc dge this House to sonic aug-
mentation'of the income of her Royal Highness. Those who
thought there ought to be an augmentation would vote for it.
'Those who thought there ought to be none, under all circum-
stances, would vote for his Noble and Learned Friend against
the Address, if he thought proper to push it to a division, or to
propose a .nottponement of the consideration. His Noble and
Leareed-Friend had said the House did not know what was the
present it/come of the Duchess of Kent. Undoubtedly that income
was enveloped in two or three Acts of Parliament which it
waa not very easy to understand. Those Acts of Parliament
had been carefully examined by the Noble Lord on the
Woolsack, and the Law Office] s of the Crown, and they
nad given it as their opinion, -that the Duchess of Kent was
entitled, partly for her own life and partly on the joint life of
the Queen, to have 20,000/. a year. That was the opinion on
which the Government acted. The Government con-
ceived her present income to be 22,0001., per annum,
and he saw no reason why he should not state it.
It was the intention also of her Majesty's Gevernment to pro-
pose in the other House of Parliament, that there should be
8,000/. a-year granted in addition to that sum, making her
whole future income to be 30,0001. a-year. It was impossible
to feel that this accession would be extravagant, and he saw
no reason why the House should not agree at once to carry up
this Address to her Majesty as the Address of the House. He
bad taken the liberty of suggesting to his Noble and Learned
Friend that he was committing an error in his statement, and
in error of no trifling importance. There was a considerable
difference between the Queen's Mother and the Mother
.of the Queen. [Here Lord Brougham intimated something,
3. hich was not heard in the gallery, and which created some
little confusion, through which we did not hear a word or two
which fell from Lord Melbourne, but the Noble Lord went on
to say he begged of his Noble and Learned Friend to understand
that lie knew no man in this country who could more gloss and
flatter, and bend the knee, than his Noble and Learned Friend ;
and therefore, when he said he could not compete with him
( Lord M. ).he would say that he (Lord M.) felt totally unable to
compete with him ( Lord B.) when he found an oppor-
tunity or an occasion for exercising it.—Laughter.] It
was 'said they were to have an account of the revenues of the
Duchies of Cornwall and Lancaster, and that it might then
;be found unnecessary to grant the augmentation now proposed;
therefore the consideration ought to be reserved until it was as-
certained what the income of her Majesty was. He would tell the
House that it was the intention of her Majesty's Government
to do away with all the secresy respecting those revenues ;
but it was not their intention to advise the Crown to make a
renunciation of these revenues for reasons which he should
be prepared to state when it 'came under discussion.
If any of their Lordships should think the provision made for
her Majesty too much, when they had the amount of those reve-
nues before them, let them say so. If they should think that she
sought to be charged with expenses which she was not at pre-
ssnit charged, let them say so, and then Government would un-
de.rstand what was meant; but it was certainly intended
that', those revenues should be continued for her.
His Noble Friend said that they should not vote the Civil List
fur tile life of her Majesty, but reserve the power of revising; it
at a future period of her reign, should circumstances arise
to revire an enlargement of the allowances. That would
be agenst all principles hitherto followed in the settlement of
riser (;ir;l List. He did not mean to act upon his Noble Friend's
neetgeetiores hemeant to proceed wish the Civil List when it came
'before thav•Hotise in the mc.ntier in which it had always been
iproCeode,-1.. With in that-stage of its progress through Parliament.
Lord BWOUG H A.M rote and said—My Lords, .1 must
triable y‘)u with one or- two observa:ions upon too
toVies of very different irnpoitance uhich have been
brotsght into this discussion —the one the more important
and relevant to the subject—the other of little importance
to any but one individual—that is to myself personally.
Firtt, Inv Lords, I do solemnly and positively deny,
and r eall. -upon the Noble Viscount •to produce his
proofs, thst- I 'ever -in rmy life did—or that I ever
in 'my life was capable of doing—that which the
Noble viscount cbote to-night unprorokcdly to throw- out
ag riast m e----I say utterly without any provoca,tom.
viscous t MELBOURNE.—No, n-, not "unprovoked."
Lord BIZ OUG II AM.—I say utterly unprovoked. I said in as
good hut watt- as possible, and in as inoffensive a manlier as man
coed -something with reference to the Queen Mother s
and tee Noble Friend thought fit to taunt me with not knowing
as mo, hof Cm! Court as me Noble Frieni did. I said that
my to. w,ue was not as attuned to Court airs as my Noble
Friend es.—(Lals'gliter.) But I said nothing about hanging a