The Sun.
London, England, 1863-02-28 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 28, 1863.

and liberal intentions which I believe animated the
Emperor Alexander at the time when the Treaty of Vienna
was signed was not afterwards adhered to and carried into
execution. It is well known that at the time the late Prince
Czartoryski was the confidential adviser of the Emperor of
Russia, and you see in the provisions of the first article of
the Treaty of Vienna the hand of a friend to Poland—a
person, interested, who looked forward to a better futurity
for his countrymen,—for in that article it is said that the
Emperor cf Russia reserves to himself to give such internal
extension to the kingdom of Poland as he may think fit ;
the meaning of which, I believe) was, that the Emperor con-
templated at that time, adding to it some of the ancient pro-
vinces of Poland which had been in the Russian empire.
But it is the fate of despotic governments that much depends
on personal influence, and when personal advisers change the
policy of the Government changes too, and this intention
was laid aside. And although a constitution was given to
the kingdom of Poland in accordance with the intentions of
the Treaty of Vienna, yet that Constitution soon became a
dead letter, and in the administration of the kingdom of
Poland under Constantine there were grievances that justi-
fied insurrection. Then I say it was impossible for any man
seeing, on the one hand, the great and distinguiehed quali-
ties that belonged to the Polish nation, and, on the other,
the calamities which from time to time have befallen them,
not to take a deep and lively interest in their fate. We
have been reproached in some degree by the hon. member
for King's County for not having in 1831 and 1832 availed
ourselves of a communication made by France for the
purpose of inviting some action at that time in favour of
the Poles, then in arms against Russia. We had at that time
to consider a great manybalanced circumstances and motives,
and, with every disposition to do what we might think use-
ful to Poland, we did not think that particular proposal
was one which would have led to any good or useful result.
It might have embarrassed us on other questions then pend-
ing, and could not, as far as we could see, be attended
with any good practical result to the Poles themselves. But
we have always held that the conduct of Russia towards
Poland has been a violation of the stipulations of the Treaty
of Vienna. Prussia and Austria have not been liable to
the same degree of reproach. Literally they have carried into
execution, in regard to their respective portions of Poland,
the stipulations of the Treaty of Vienna, because in the
duchy of Posen and Galicia there is a uniform representation,
the language is preserved, the religion is respected, and all
the rights and privileges stipulated have been enjoyed.
And, speaking of Prussia, I must here remark that, how-
ever we may condemn the spirit and intention of that con-
vention which we understand was signed between Prussia
and Russia, I am inclined to think, from information we
have received, that the apprehensions which we have been
led to entertain with regard to that convention are not
likely to be realised in the result. I believe that conven-
tion has not been ratified. No ratifications have been ex-
changed, and I am inclined to think, not only from what
passed in the Prussian Chambers, but also from the infor-
mation we have received, that it is not likely that conven-
tion will be carried practically into execution. (Hear,
hear.) I am speaking, however, not officially but from in-
formation we have received, for we have not yet had a copy
of the convention itself. I trust that it may be so, because
such an interference of ,Prussia with what is now possing in
Poland would excite, as it has already excited, great con-
demnation everywhere, and if that conventional interfer-
ence were followed by acts it would cast discredit on
the Government of Prussia. (Cheers.) Sir,, the pre-
sent Emperor of Russia has, in regard to Poland, been
placed in a very critical position. It is a great calamity for
anybody to succeed to an inheritance of triumphant wrong
—(cheers)---and it is very difficult for a person so circum-
stanced to disentangle himself from the poisonous folds of
so fatal a bequest, (Cheers.) There is in the human mind
a strong passion,-a determination to maintain and to vindi-
cate its own personal liberties; but there is also a strong
passion, and I doubt whether it is not as strong a passion,
which makes men cling to the power of exercising oppres-
sion on others, and when long rooted habits have accus-
tomed the authorities of a Government to administer a ty-
rannical system it requires great perseverance and activity
on the part of the Sovereign to undo the evil and restore
things to their proper condition. I do believe that the
present Emperor of Russia, a kind-hearted and bene-
volent man, does mean, and has meant for Some
time past, to improve the condition of his Polish
subjects, That would be in perfect unison with the
system on which he is governing his subjects. The Sove-
reign who has emancipated the serfs—the Sovereign who is
establishing a system of jurisprudence founded upon an imi
tation of the best judicial codes of Europe—a Sovereignwho
is introducing into his Russian dominions a vast number of
modern improvements, cannot surely have it in his heart
intentionally and systematically to harass and oppress any
portion of his subjects, whether Russian or Polish. Well,
sir, there can be no doubt that this last act called a conscrip-
tion, but which has elsewhere been more properly designated
a proscription, was an act wholly foreign to that disposition
which I believe really animates the breast of the Emperor of
Russia ; and it accounts entirely for the outbreak which
has occurred in Poland. (Hear,) It was a most barbarous
act—(cheers)—it was a most cruel piece of political tyranny
under the semblance of a merely military arrangement.
(Renewed cheers.) No wonder that the Poles should have
taken up arms to prevent the further execution of a mea-
sure of that kind. (Hear, hear.) I believe that, as far as
one hears, has in some degree now been stopped, and
has ceased. (Murmurs.) But, sir, the question mooted by
the resolution before us relates to the conduct of her Ma-
jesty's Government with a view to communications about to
be made to Russia. Now I cannot conceive that a Sovereign
gifted with the qualities which I believe are possessed by
the Emperor of Russia should not see that, in the contest
in which he is now unfortunately engaged with the Polish
nation, military success would be a great and signal
calamity. (Cheers.) Why, what would be the effect of
military success—what would be the result if, by the action
of his troops, by the overpowering force of the 100,000 men
who have been sent to Poland, be was entirely to suppress
and put down this extensive insurrection ? Why, he would
have a country in which the desert plains would be bathed
in blood—in which there would be nothing seen but the
smoking ashes of ruined villages and towns. (Hear,
hear.) Is that an object which any Sovereign can wish to
arrive at, and deem it an advantage to him to obtain a suc-
cess of that kind ? Sir, if the Emperor of Russia saw his
own interest—and we give him credit for being an enlight-
ened man,— he would think the course best calculated for
his own advantage—the course best adapted to secure the
permanence of his own authority as well as to promote the
happiness of his people, would be to put an end to that re-
volt by an act of generous amnesty—(cheers)—and by, at
the same time, re-establishing in Poland those institutions
which the Emperor Alexander gave in execution of the
Treaty of Vienna. (Renewed cheers.) I cannot believe
but that if that were done peace would be restored in Poland
and might continue to exist there, and that Europe
might be saved from those disturbances which the con-
tinued misgovernment of Poland and the discontent
thereby engendered among the Poles cannot fail to reproduce
from year to year, as has been the case in years that have
gone by. (Cheers.) But with regard to the: particular
motion of the hon. member, I should hope that he would be
satisfied with the unanimous expression of opinion which has
been the result of this discussion (hear), and not press to a di-
vision the resolution he has placed, sir, in your hands. The
objections to this motion are really very great. It proceeds
upon an erroneous foundation. The hon. member assumes
that by the Treaty of Vienna we are under an obligation to
interfere in the affairs of Poland. We have a right to in-
terfere, but we are under no obligation to do so. (Hear,
hear.) And although to those who have not turned
their minds to diplomatic documents this may appear to
be a nice distinction, yet there is a real, substan-
tial, and most important distinction between treaties
which give you the right to interfere and those which im-
pose on you the obligation to interfere. (Hear, hear.) Now
in the Treaty of Vienna—in that last treaty of June 15,
there is only ono obligation by which we should be compelled
to interfere in the case that might arise—namely, that article
of the treaty which stipulates that the Powers guarantee
to Prussia the continued possession of the portion (of
Saxony which was allotted to Prussia by that arrangement.
But there was no guarantee whatever in the engagement
which relates to the kingdom of Poland, nor in any other
part of the treaty, except, indeed, that which concerns
the independence and integrity of Switzerland. There-
fore I say that the hon. gentleman throughout his resolu-
tion proceeds on the assumption that we are under an
obligation to interfere ; and, consistently with that as-
sumption, in the concluding passage he calls upon the
Government to interpose and vindicate the public faith
and solemn engagements of the Crown. Why, Sir, if
in truth we were under an obligation to interfere, the
resolution would be right and fitting, and would, as has
been observed by hon. gentlemen who have spoken in this
debate, amount to this, that unless the remonstrance which
might be made in virtue of that obligation were attended
with success, the Crown would be compelled to call upon
this house to give it the means of enforcing by arms thos
stipulations the just fulfilment of which was refused when
urged by diplomatic communication. (Hear, hear.) There-
fore there is that grave objection to that particular motion
of the hon. member. And if, as I think everybody must
admit, unanimity is desirable, wo already see that there
have been two or three amendments proposed to his resolu-
tion, and that consequently it is not likely either one or
other of the three would secure the unanimous assent of
this house. (Hear.) There are other less material criti-
cisms to be made. The hon. member proposes that which I
believe to be unusual—viz., to record, in an address of this
house, quotations from " Hansard" of that which a member
of this house may or may not have spoken on some former
occasion. I apprehend he does me the honour—and I am sure
I am much obliged to him for it—(hear, hear, and a laugh)—
of proposing to insert in a solemn address of this house ex-
tracts from speeches which I am supposed to have made.
But I do not think that a course which would be altogether
consistent either with the usages or the dignity of this house.
Then, sir, in the interest of that cause which the hon. mem-
ber has at heart,—which the whole house have at heart—
(cheers)—which I believe the country has at heart—(re-
newed cheers)—and which I am sure that he and all vek
hear me must wish to see promoted in the best manner pos-
sible for the advantage of those whom it concerns, I should
say that the course best adapted to accomplish the purpose
he has in view would be to content himself with that unani-
mous expression of opinion which has prevailed to-night—
(cheers)—to let it go forth to the world, as it will go to-

morrow, that of all the hon. members who have spoken on
this occasion there was not one who had a different opinion
from the rest in regard to his interest in the fate of Poland
or to his sense of the injuries which the Polish nation have
sustained.; but this, as was well stated by the right hon.
gentleman opposite (Mr. Walpole), it is better to leave it to
the responsible Government of the country to give to the
Sovereign on this matter such advice as they may think
best calculated to attain the object which all desire, and not
to take upon the house a responsibility of detail which be-
longs properly to her Majesty's Minister, resting assured
that the sentiments expressed by the house this evening are
equally shared by those who have the honour of holding
office under the Crown. (Loud cheers.) I would, there-
fore suggest to the hon. gentleman that he should now
allow the house to go into Committe of Supply, and be satis-
fied with the result—which I am sure is honourable to him
and must be satisfactory to all who take an interest in this
subject—of the discussion in which so many members have
expressed opinions entirely in accord with each other.
Mr. DISRAELI—Sir, we often hear it said, in the course
of these discussions in this house, that the partition of
Poland was a great crime. If it were a great crime, it was
a crime shared by the Polish people. A population of
20,000,000 are not destroyed, their political existence is not
terminated without their being some faults on their side;
Since that partition, let us recollect what has occurred in
Europe, The greatest events which have ever happened in
Europe have happened since the partition of Poland. The
whole of the French Revolution, and all those immense re-
sults which flowed from that great ebullition have since then
intervened. There has appeared a character on the European
stage who alone in modern times could be classed with the
Alexanders and the Csesars of antiquity. All the boundaries
of the kingdom which existed when Poland was partitioned
have been altered, the laws of almost every country in
Europe have been remodelled, new codes have been intro •
duced, and new Governments called into being. In short
greater and more numerous changes have occurred since that
event than were probably ever before crowded into any
similar period of the history of man. Sir, I think it is very
much to the honour of an English statesman, and of an
English statesman who had not in his time that credit paid
to his sagacity which I believe posterity now accords to him
—(hear, hear)—l think it is much to the honour of Lord
Castlereagh that, after such immense events, called upon
to participate and take a leading part in the settlement of
Europe after these events, he should not have been blind
to the importance of restoring, if possible, the political inte-
grity of Poland ; and that, with all those arduous and
onerous duties which devolved upon him at the Congress
of Vienna, ho felt that the restoration of the political
independence of Poland was a result necessary to
the ease and tranquillity of Europe. (Hear, hear.)
Let us remember what were the circumstances under which
Lord Castlereagh, as the representative of the British policy,
conceived and counselled the resto ation of the political in-
dependence of the kingdom of Poland. He was supported
in that policy by Austria and France ; ho was opposed by
Russia. Austria and France were then exhausted Powers ;
England was suffering from an immense exertion; but
Russia, from a combination of circumstances, was in a posi-
tion of irresistible and unprecedented strength. It was un-
der those conditions that LordCastlereagh, though aided by
the sympathy of France and Austria, felt that he was obliged
to relinquish the plan which be was then of opinion would be
of most eminent advantage to the future prosperity and tran-
quillity of Europe. But what are the circumstances under
which we are now considering the question ? England is
not suffering from the consequences of an unprecedented
exertion of its energies continued for 20 years. Engfand
was never so powerful, never so united as it is now; France
is not an exhausted Power, and I am happy to believe
that Austria is daily gaining strength and authority
—(hear, hear)—strength and authority due not merely
to the possession of the great resources which have
always belonged to that empire, but to the prudence,
sagacity, and wisdom which distinguish her counsels. But
if the position of England, France, and Austria is so strong
and so promising, what is the position of Russia I The posi-
tion of Russia is not that which dictated the answer that the
noble lord had quoted, the haughty roplythat 200,000 Rus-
sians were in possession of Poland, and that that was the
only answer that would be given to the politic counsels of
the English Plenipotentiary. Well, air, Lord Castlereagh,
under those circumstances, representing with great ability
and foresight the interests not only of England, but of Eu-
rope, gave up the restoration of the independence of Poland
and had recourse to another scheme. His policy was the re-
storation of the independence of Poland, but it terminated
in the treaty of the Congress of Vienna, which endowed a
section of Poland in the possession of Russia with some ap-
pearance of political independence. But although England
relinquished her policy, still under that treaty she possessed
her rights and had the opportunity of standing upon them. I
cannot agree with the noble lord that the hon. gentlemanwho
introduced this question to-night with so much ability
laid down, or any hon. gentleman who follows this line of
argument, lays down the position that there are obligations
under the treaty of Vienna which force England into action,
but there are moral obligations which the noble lord cannot
deny, which result from the pOsition that we occupy under
that treaty—moral obligations of the duty of fulfilling
which we may avail ourselves whenever the opportunity is
afforded. The present position of affairs in Poland is that

another revolution has occurred. The hon. gentleman who
has introduced the question has expressed in his speech,
and, indeed, in his motion, what is justly described as the
unanimous feeling of Parliament and of the country with
respect to that insurrection. The noble lord objects to
the mode in which the expression of the opinion of
the house is called for. I entirely agree with the
noble lord as far as this ; I think that, under the cir-
cumstances of the case, the great object is to elicit an
expression of opinion on the part of the house ;
but how far the hon. member ought to proceed depends
upon the conduct of the Government. If the Government,
for example had adopted a line of policy opposite to the course
recommended by the hon. gentleman he would have been per-
fectly justified in asking the house to support either a resolu •
tion or an address which asserted the policy that he advo-
cated. On the other hand, if the policy recommended by
the Government was one similar to that which was advo-
cated by the hon. gentleman himself, such a proceeding
would be quite unnecessary. There is, however, a position
which I think has not been sufficiently considered, that of
a Government which does not frankly communicate to the
house the policy, the general policy, which it intends to
pursue. (Hear, hear.) Because I must say that, although '
I listened to the noble lord with great attention, I did not at
all collect from him what was the general course which her
Majesty's Government intended to pursue with regard to
this matter. (Hear, hear.) That we should become
acquainted in detail with the measures which the Govern-
ment may think it desirable to adopt at this moment would
be most unreasonable, but 1 did not hear from the noble
lord any expression of opinion as to what he thought might
be desirable or practical, or even as to the spirit in which
her Majesty would be advised by her Ministers with respect
to the present state of affairs in Poland. I think that is
very much to be regretted. The hon. gentleman must
decide for himself as to the course which he should pursue
in the matter. lam myself of opinion that it would be ex-
tremely unadvisable to have any appearance of a difference
of opinion on this subject. (Hear, hear.) At the same
time, I entirely disagree with the critics who have found
fault with the language of portions of the address. If the
house is in a position in which a resolution on an address
is necessary, there is nothing in the address of the hon. gen-
tleman which should be cavilled at. It is, of course, in the
power ofany hon. gentleman to place his own interpretation
upon the words of that address. One hon. member smells
gunpowder in the last sentence. I should not myself, if I
thought an address requisite under the circumstances,
shrink from the adoption of this form of words. Putting
upon this address the natural interpretation of its phraseo.
logy, I understand that it means this, that her Majesty's
Ministers are not to pass the present state in Poland over in
silence, that they are to avail themselves of their rights
under the treaty, and to take every other proceeding which
they think wise and expedient to carry into action a policy
favourable to the Poles. In my opinion that does not neces-
sarily mean war, and I think that we must all of us indulge
in more than the hope that great and beneficial changes
will take place in the condition of Poland without an appeal
to the last arbiter of human destiny. (Hear, hear.) Ido
not presume to give counsel to the hon. gentleman ; but I
will venture to give him this advice, either to proceed with
his address, or, yielding to what I think is the general feel-
ing of this house and for the sake of unanimity, to with-
draw it—(hear, hear)—but not on account of false scruples
to consent to have the address which he has proposed in a
very spirited manner, and which very effectively represents
his sentiments, emasculated in its language or changed in
its expressions. I think the hon. gentleman must feel that
he has obtained his main object, in originating a discussion
which has been sustained with great power, and which has
no doubt made her Majesty's Ministers clearly understand
that in the Houss of Commons there are not two opinions
respecting the state of affairs in Poland. (Hear.) I alway s
shrink from any expression of political sentimentalism. I
do not know any people who have suffered so much from
political sentimentalism as the Poles. Year after year there
have been people living in Paris and London, some of them
in a state of comparative luxury, stimulating their unfortu-
nate countrymen in Poland to fruitless insurrection and
to useless revolt, and all this time we have been
favoured by them with expressions of feeling,which—if ex-
pression of feeling would effect the salvation of nations—
have certainly been abundant and profuse. But what makes
me hope that in the present state of circumstances there is
a chance of the great English policy which Lord Castlereagh
counselled and recommended being carried into effect is, not
only that the position of England, of France, and of Austria
is very different from what it was in 1813 and 1815, not only
that the position of
i Russia is very different from what it was
at that critical period, but that in Poland we have at pre-
sent a sheer insurrection of the people against oppression.
It is a movement not originated and not stimulated by
foreign emissaries. (Hear, hear.) It has not been created
I b y conspiracies in other countries ; it has not been fostered
in order to promote local ambition or the objects of faction.
It is a national movement--(hear, hear)—it possesses all the
elements of a sacred cause, the love of country, the memory
of a glorious past, and, as I hope, and will believe, the in-
spiration of a triumphant future. (Loud cheers.)
Sir J. B. CLIFTON hoped the hon. member for the
King's county would go to a division. The house was en-,