The Sun.
London, England, 1801-05-19 00:00:00

MONUMENT TO. SIR RALPH AII'ERCRO:.IBY.

•Tbe CHANCELLOR cf rhr EX.O HEQU Ek—
." I rise, ;Sir, in consequence of a notice, which I
gave on Friday last, to call the attention of the
House to an important subjea. In referring to the
Journals of.the House I find that on an occasion, in
many respeas similar, an occasion which operated
to produce both joy and regret in this Country, I
mean that of the account of the death of General
W9LF, and the success 'of the British Army before
Quebec ; Sir, when that was made known in this
House, the first proceeding was to pay a tribute of
debt and justice to the General, anti that before
they marked their sense of gratitude and acknow.
10dgetnent to the ViEtorious Army Sir, it is my
w isii to imitate that case, and to pursue the course
which was then followed. On each occasion the
British Army, gained the
.Vitiory,---on. each occa-
sion it sustained the loss of a distinguished Genera.

Sir, on the Meth of that distinguished Man who
was recently lost to this Country, and who lately
commanded the Army in Egypt, it is unnecessary •
for the to 'speakHis merits are known to every
man in this Kingdom ; they are described by his
successor in a manner that does honour to them
both, and I have no doubt, but that in every re-
speet§ the genuine British sentiment which animated
the one is possessed by the Other, and that Spirit
--which might-in-bias be-counted on...ind.P.Onsidered .
as instrumental in enabling a man to signalize him.
self in the service of his Countik," wilt bC conspL
"-WM also in General Hu"teniersost,sanci that he wail
prove an able and valuable Successor to the Great
Man who preceded him in a career of Giory.--Sir,
on the charade! ,of Sir RALPH AB SIIC:ROMISY-§
abstain from saying more than that he closed a Life
of Honour by a: Death Of. Glory, He bore a Fame
which the breath of calumny never reached.: He
Was respeded; honoured and revered, by the Officer-a
with' ivhbta he associated, and was obeyed and
adored by the Army which he comManded. Within
a few minutes befOrd I came to the House this day,
I saw a Letter; inWhich justice is done to the me-
mory of that Great Officer, an Extraa of which,
with the permission of the House,. I will read." .
[Here Mr. ADDINGTON read part of a Letter
from an OfACer in EgYpt, Stating, " that they all
gave themseii es.up entirely to the guidance of their
Commander, being impresse4 with a sense of his
superior genius'; that they emulated each other, but
the contest was only who should obtain the greatest
shale of his approbation. and esteem, and thit Sir
RALPH ABERCROMBY was, in their estimations
placed among the most striking and distinguished
charatc.lers of the age in which'he lived."]
" I shall only add (said Mr. ADDINGTON), that
. His Majesty, with that gracious -disposition which
he has ever manifested'to do-honour to the memory
Of all who have served, particularly who have
fallen in, the service of their Country, has direttel.
that the Standard taken at the Vidory. in Egypt,
should adorn the Monument-of the Officer who has
done such eminent -Service, and ordered-it to be
preserved as a Memorial of his.rnefit, and toexpress
the .sense Which -His Majesty and his Peopteenter-*
rain of his-ch-arader. His conch& shews`the senti- . .
meat of a Maw- who never exercised his
Power to deatroy, but also wished to save the liven
of his FelloW-Creaturea. iylay God.grant that such
may he the-pt'inciple of the Councils of this COtm-
try, and may_ it ever he blessed with such -a Man
is Sir RALPH ABERCROMBY, tti carry such Coun_.
cils into cif-et-IT:Sir, on the Ai4ievements of the .
Army lately commanded, by .f.3lr RALPH AB Et.
C 1t(4.48Y, and now-under the Command of Qenarg.
.HUTCHINSQN, it iS'ilOt my intention to dwell. 1 i
am sure the Journals_of this }louse-do riot record.
!single instance in which the,gratitticie ortth. coo,
,try has been called upon to :manifest .itself 114-001
ithe: case which is now
.before'tiii.nor is there I
recorded a single instance' in inoes ...Firmnessvl6,ihth .
or a
e"Hi.
roism, the Discipline,- and
British Army his .been more conspicuous than I
that whicA has distinguished our Arms in
.Egypt.
'I refer the House to the striking cle'scription of the
atchievernents of the British Army on thiS occasion,
given by its' present Cornmalider,
sCireneral
c :,f3o.r. posteusion,- however, of another
Letter,. an extract of which, with eettnission, I
. stall read to the House.: ft 'is written,' Sir, by a
person who Was an eye witness Of the Action;"
•
Here Mr. ApotsicroN read the Extrad, by
winch it was stated, ;that the valour of British
was irresistible, and that the glory of the Fgitish
Arms was never greater than on this memorable
occasion and ending with a regret that,we had lost
our brave General in the action.]
Mr. ADDINGTON then proceeded.—" Without 1!.
dwelling ,with too much triumph, or unwceniag-
pride, which is always unmanly, I hop;: I feel a
becoming, an English pride, and there is not, I
, believe, a man, with proper-sentiments, who dots
not feel and admit that the exertions of that Army
has added-to our domestic strength, ac well as to
our foreign :splendor. Let us, however, be re,
minded.ot a sentiment that -I never will he afraid to
repeat, an I never shall cease to feel, that the great
object of thecontesti on our Fart-, is to obtain aa
honourable and adequate Peace j' and let it he under; I
stood, that such and such only is the united Wish of I
thtiGoverninent, --the Parliament7i.anfi the-Peopi
this Country. That no: viloty, no :a tehi*Oeinenti 1
success, however great, no triumphi. how'-essplendil, that no -circumstance, how.e.Ver. "kiatefal
to our pride, ought 'to, otjhall induce, us to, de-
mand-more than is nece.,sary frieour Security. .03
the.,Other hand, let us als4cheri4k, another:oari-
tnenti that no defeat, howevep • signal, .tlut'tq
failure,: however
.'llnentable--; ;no disaster.; haw•
ever great/shall eter ac.4t less.
If we do not over_rate • oil r _triumph, we. should
not under-rate our,,,,res;oli.ikei, if we er
profitable . will be our
.and blood wilt
have been shed in 'the- field in • vain.---We *halt
great .resources ; the best,' and ultim'atd; the most
valuable, is the unconquered and unconquerable.
Mind of the Nation;"
,v(hich- onr People -have ro sit
eminent degree, and which, when Weil, ditetied, is
'the guardian. of Private Right, and pratedor and
promoter. of PUblie Honour,- and National Glory,--
Str, I have not.another word to utter, -except I Wish
to have it understood that every .sentiment :di alai-
ration
,which I have uttered, •is ,applied to ,all tht
Army and Navy serving in Egypt.---I forbear to.
specify more than may be conveyed by, the Mutioe;
which I atu about .to submit to th., House. ,4a
those who. are the objets Of the Motions are entitirl
to the applause and gratitude of their Country.--
Sir, I move
" That an humble Address be presented to Hi& Nl.k!istr,
praying he will be graciously pleased to give di reetiorls fm
- Monument to be erected.in the Cathedral of St. ri.a,
• Memory of the ever to be lamented late Sir %ALI. ht
CROMAY, Commander ip Chief of His Majesty's
• the Coast of Egypt, ,who' surmounted by valour all I°o
difficulties, and although opposed by it po%yertul and wtii•
prepared Enemy, has established and mAihtattiecl a, positisit
necessary for further operations. anti resisted the desperait
- attack. of chosen and veteran Troops on the ttst 05 Nlif,;.,.
wiBoout,nd,beunthree.threacineedivedin etiairelyyiienidt,hgettkiuenglat4geti:ytehnL 3,ittnottibt,ato.,
and animating by his courage the persons under his rornmas,;,.
when he atchievod the-brilliant victory of that day ;
aSSUIV Hts MAJZSTY that this House will Malty poi to
'ex pence thereof, &v."
The Motion being read and purl
Sir JAMES PULTENEY could not give a silent
• vote on the present occasion, though he was *tn.

the Right Hon..Gentleina 6; who hatllititiat dtisvm.
He'would only say, that he' had-had the honour'of.
serving tinder Sir RALPH AB riteito. itay, that he.
:knew him well, loved him much, and that no man
:could feel more. sincerely than he did ttie seoti-
Ments expressed in the Right Hon.' Gentleman's
Speech, or approved more highly
_Of the Motion
wits which he concluded' it. - Of the character of•
Sir RALPH ABERCItOMMBY, he could safely say,. that
those who knew him best, loved him most. As to
the other part of the subjea of the Right Hon.
Gentleman's Speech, 'he would not say much'. He
was convinced, as every man,, whether :by proles_
lion a Soldier. or not, must ,be, that the British
Troops have displayed throughout . whole.
tonduet in Egypt, a coolness, discipline, idtrepi_
and courage, which : have gained them
and their Country immetnal. honour. In his
opinion, the Affair, of the Landing, was one
of the most gallant exploits: ever' performed.—
The Briti§h Army made their landing good on a
hostile shore, in the face of 'an Army of veteran and
disciplined Troops, of a numerous and served.
Artillery, and rtbt. only Maintained themselves-in'
the ground whiChYthey had gained,- but repulsed,
the Fowes of the Enemy. Indeed in every Atiion
-which they fought they displayed. the. same intre-
pidity and discipline. The French 'Cavalry was
frequEntly intermixed with :our Infantry, and yet
they preserved their order.and repulsed the attacks,
a circunistance than which nothing. could be more
honourable to the skill of the Officers who com-
manded them, or their own discipline.—He approv-'
ed highly of the Motions; •
Mr. T. ;was joined as heartily-ai any- man
in approving the Motion before the House, in re-
gretting the loss which the Country, has sustained
in the death .of Sir RALPH ABERCROMBY, and
applauding the courage, skill, and etQua:of the
Officers and men of, the British Army. Certainly-
nothing could be more deserving of the admiration
of the Country than the whole condutl of our gal-
lant Army.. He knew
.not how to expresS the sen-
timents which, he entertainedrespeaing it; he was
obliged to ,borrow the language of the Book of
Common Prayer, and call it an Army of Martyrs ;
be said, an Army of Martyrs to the obstinacy and
folly of. His Majesty's late Ministers, for if they
had not broken the Convention of El Ariscli, the
French would' long ago have been out of Egypt,
the National Honour would not have been violated,
• and the British Army would not now have had to
contend with a Fre'nch Army in that Country. At,
' the door of these Ministers we must therefore lay
the blame of evFry- drop of: British bfood shed in
this struptle. Had they ratified the Convention of
El Arisch,S Sir RALPH ERC ROMBY would still
have.been alive, and this Houk would not now
• have been called to vote, the cretaion•. of a Monu-
ment 'to his inernoxy. For his part he was deter-
mined to do -everything in his power to bring the
authors of the breach of that Convention to condign
:punishmenr
The 'Question was then • put, 'and-agreed to
unantmouslr. '
Mr. ADDYNGTo•N then moved,
That tite'Thanks of this House be liven to :\ll3or'.-Gen.
the Hon. 1,1 L H t
vnLorr c 111:z so, Second colinaand,
Mooar, Ear! CAVAN,
DOYL%, oAlc,e;, IINCH' (and sortie other • nantes
svhii.:ll wectid.rwt learn), and rile several Officers wbo.served
under Asii.ktC4ol.la It, for. their splendid. anti
foie eXertions, `when, in spite of local difticUlties, and the
desperate-2tracks Of a powerful and•well-petp?.in.l Army, on
the zest of March, ,ao t, the British Arins obtained a brilliant
ttr.c.!'--Carried teem,_ con:
s, That this -Hofx. dottilliFhly approve of and acknow-
ledge the distinguialied ai d.
sialotir displayed . by. the Non-c9cruntssioned Ortice:•s arid
Privates und-1. the eolniiiand 811 Sir K.i tItCRomHY, on-the
listimOrabto brilliant operations of -tile British Array in
4gypt, and that the saint be•sigt,t:ilii:d to thein by the Coin-
Inanders of their sortril Corps. w4o are de:sired iothank'
them for theircieFripiky . runt •
That the STEAKLK do conitnunitate the saki Rcsoiu
tion to the Commander in .Chit l Army of EgYPt, and
that he be recpsired to sighify the same to rite General and
other Officers."---Carried nein..con-
That the thanks of this House be given to. A.rintiral
Lord- Kr.tr it, for the distinl-itished 'zeal and ability with
govhi'cli he Snide 'his diesition for landing thc 'croopsydn the
Coast of .Qypt, 'in spite:of-all the obstacles winch he had
tarneounteC, .All 4 the waivitv, and emtion Avith which. he
alikd and suppqrted theme inetfii lingth'etiocentitand carrying
cA cperations riltainSt the Ern ne',,,ltc."---Carried4nem.•COn.
-r hat -ow ot.;this:tionse. 1;e • given to -Rear-Ad.-.
.to Sir, R. Ntex r;'tTON, •liart. and the sveratCaiiiiii4
and officers' tinder ecirriLoand, for thelijtordiat and ene i-
- tuAl.co-oPerati°'ll in bandit% aritVettectint their DesCerit, told
wlrryingf)n (,).pcFa.tion3 apirist. the Enemy on the Coast Of
,
—Ca.rt.. 101 IT
.1 , eon.
'r
W'hat this flomc tit)th' highly approve of and acknow-
led<ic' -the S'ilyiee :of 'the SeatnenandrivlafilltSi under .Lord
Ic.E/ Tfti Se C: B.:c.":—eairic.'el nein. con. • •
That the,gr s-di`ictiß do communicate .the same to A(1.
miral I.ord•g.r.r r!!, - a acl that he he requested to sig:ii ti
sane to the several, Cliptains acrd-other Otlicers under i;i,,
coolinand.”—Carried item, 'craw • • • . .
66 That thp allpve Atl;lress iie.presented to- Ht S Nl.\lrsTY,
by such' Members -of, this 1-141:3e• as are. 6f, His Majesty '6
liost Honourable Privy Council."--Ordered.
- SUBSIDY TO'THE

lie' Mdse. 'on the tivotion of Lord 1-lawices aI! Y
resolved itself into a Committee of Supply. 'ibis ' • •
Majesty's. Messa6c to the Sub-'I.
y
*in.- read, • - • •
Lard H RI: rose .to make the I:notion
which given notice on a:former:clay:, If
offrom what lead_passed.on that;Jay, he -could not' ex_ •
-Tea the unanimous concu4ence.of thellols.e.in that;
motiiin; yet after he' had made, the • slum stfttemeu t
with. which he meant- to preface it, lie !toped-that
;:the opposition to it would be confined to. a very'
few, , ..Whatever differeta:e there mayjm- in, the
opinions. which G'entlemen entertain 7reip4ing
~fornier subsidies which -have been. granted in the
course of this war, their policy..andeqediency, that:,
which he intended now to move for, he „hoped to:
make it appear,- rests on, a very different -itound
from them. He did. nor mean to enter at large into
a discussion of the question of the general elitpc-'
aiency of Subsidies, nor. to tale up the time of the
House in stating his opinions, on that subjea.
Their policy must depend upon Circumstances which
cannot apply to every case, and he believed- that
. there was no Gentleman prepared to contend, either
that they .ate universally wrong..or . that they are
universally right. - To these,,if_ there .be any" who
think that they are univerSally. wrong, he would
remark, that the i,rilyWal in Which this Country has
been engaged for a cent tirybaCk, ut which it has failed
in attalliini-,ii-ny Brirlsh objeEt, was.allo the only
one in which it had iio Continental Allies—he tel
Eifel icrtitritrucricarrWar. As to the' wisdom, of
former Subsidid, crratite.d during thii War, what.

17,`Wrb,

coptend, that they originated in an enlarged and
litieral system of policy., ,lie..had said, however,
that the Subsidy which he was now to move, rests
on very different grounds font theM ;'and he thought
that thos . Gentlemen %vho could riot approve of
.Subsidies granted for carrying on Offensive War,
'such as 'were' those granted granted At different times
Attitria, those granted to Prussia .and:Russia,
might yet approve of ,gran4ng one
:to a Power
which has been for more thana century in constant
'friendship .with this Country; to an old and faithful
Ally, whose territory is threatened to be over-rim
by the Common Enemy, and who is thus endanger-
ed from' the inveterate spirit- of. enmity *hick that
Enemy has.alWays manifested towards this Country:
The only -objeCtion which he could conceive to 'be
made to ;granting this Subsidy, was that it may be
better, _under:all the circumstances of the case, that
that, Power should endeavour to
:procure Peice,
thOtighsthe'rernis should.not be se, favourable either
to itself, or to the interest of this Country, as could
be desired, than to encourage it by a to,
maintain , contest, the issue- of which must be
doul)tful, and v-Bich must risk even its existence as
a State. But when the conduetof France to Naples,
and other States which have:aceeded.to such terms of.
Peace,as she has herself dictated, is recollected, ht
would,ask if some doubt may not be entertained of
the-phipriety of Porrugal,by follocvint a similar line
of conduct with them, exposing herself to similar
usage 'Should it..bc: thought wise and 'expedient
for her to make Peace, the granting her this Subsidy:
is not intended to- bind her to carry on the War.---

This. Country has generously liberated her from
any engagements which might haire operated is
obstacles to her following this course,of policy ; but
still the Subsidy would enable her to negotiate ona
more respalable footing, and tend to secure to her
better terms. Whether, therefore, War or Peace
may be thought her beSt policy, a Subsidy would be
of essential benefit to her. It has been said-that
the sum- proposed to be granted, 300,c001. is so
small that it can afibrd no effectual aid ; but in the
present situation of this'Couniry, he thought it -as
large a sum as could with propriety lie *sent out of
it. This situation, in lais opinion arose principally
from there having 'been So large sums lately, sent
out of it to purehase Corn. But ask the Court of
Portugal if it will not consider this sum as an effac-
tual It may_ not be so large as it may wish that
it had been, or as it might.haveexpeeted from
Country in other circumstances ; but it surely can-'
not be pretended that altith which will enable it to
maintain an 'Army of 20,000 men' fbr.SiX months,
is not an, tiid of considerable importance to that
Power. Hiving Made these few obserVationa he
kvould• -conclude with moving the COmMittee to
resolve, , That it is the opinion of this Com-
mittee, that the sum of 300,0301. beagranted
His MAJESTY 'to enable him to advance the
like Sum to his Good and Faithful. Ally: the Qu E E
of PORTUGAL, to enable Her 'Mnst.Faithful f'..la-
Jeaty to take such measures- against her Enemies,
'as the exigency, ofaa may reqUire:"
Mr. GREY rose to express Ins dissent froth the
anooosed 116. opinion 'the Noble
Lord who moved it had giVen. no reason-why, it
should be agreed to. There were severed. points
stated by the Noble-Lord which he would not.dis-
pute. lie admitted that Portugal is the Old and
'Faiihftil,Allyaaf- this:Country-. He admitted -the
validity of,her for assistance on this founttry. But he must' oppOse the Motion for granting
her a Stibsidy; -because- he Was convinced that it
could be of no-nst.' There was another -point on
which; he woulid not dissent ,from the Noble Lord—
That. Subsidies ought not
.to be judged .of on a ate-
ral principles, hot from the circumstanaes of the
case i+i which' they' areagtainted. Bur judging or the
principles of fliS Majesty's late Ministers, from
their tonduB,- and-of the principles of the present
Ministers; frtitiy-the support which they uniformly
gave to- the measures of their predecessors, he Must
ciinclude,.notwithatanding the declarations made by
the Noble Lord this night, that :the' latter . agree
with the'forMer, in thinking that there is some-
thing toOd- in'Bttbsidies considered 'by 'themselves,:
for when he recollected the, Sultsidiea granted on
fornid periods of the War, Some of them on oa:.
casion' when they must be useless, .others when
they must be -.worse than, useless,. he _could allot
hesitate in-thinking, that those. ivho grantcdthem,
saw something. good in the Subsidies themselvea;—
But alte,Noble Lord saysa that this Subsidy ought
to be granted to the QuE Eaz of Po IkTU paa., because
it Wiilenable her either to ..negotiate.With. o'ol,
or to carry on the War with aigaur, according as
may be thought ix eircarastancea most eapedient.—
If he means btnegottating_with effea, that it will
enable hersto.-pay; theaum-of Mousy -avltich France
Muy--demand as a pat t of the price of Peace, he
‘i'oald agree with:the Noble Loid. But he' eolith
rintagree to the *Lion for granting -this,Subsidy,
because it would be giving 'it to Boa..‘e.avars and
voting:the, MoOyaof this Country into the &Pis
of France. iNlinister'S, it would ru are now'be-
'come lie,:nilafly alive:- to thedanger of,- Portugal.—
He.would.aak, since what time has this anxiety re-
•:spetc.ting the fate.'of ,that Country displayed itself ,?
!.,Are
.the, preparations of Fiance'against.Pprtugal of
a new date ? Last summer, General BERTHEIR, a'
name of-no little 'note, and of-no obscure fame, was
rant from Paris on an Embassy to the. Court of Mi.
evidently.for
,the,purpose of concerting m'ea.
suits against Portugal. A Brother of the Chief
-Consul himself succeeded BEaarll I ER, and One of the
most eminent French Generals was afterix'ards sent
to the- Court of Spain for the same purpose ; and at
the same time, a French Army wits colleaing.:on a
'part the Fro.htiers, which clearly pointed ont its
destination. To all this, His -Majesty's Ministers
retnajned compleatly blind. . But .wherf they hear
that the. French, Artily has entered Spain, '.and
that_ the- Army of Spain has reached the frontiers
'of Portugal and 'commenced hostilities there, they
propose to vote to Portugal a paltry Subsidy of
300,0001.. When Portugal was not threatened,
when Franee had no disposable Force to bring
against her.,, when all her Armies were employed
in resisting the Powers in waive ,hostility- against
het--then. a British, Army was kept in Por-
tugal, under the command, first of Sir CHARLES
Sr U ET and afterwards of General FR AST. R .—But
in what situation is teat Country now placed,

and Well disciprined Artily ? In what state have
Ministers left. her ?-L-They piivote to send here
triony, which he would contend can neVei defend
her; That. Coiintry, in his opinion,. can billy*
defended by a British :A riny. No man conk!. joie)
more sincerely than he did, in the just tribute which '
the House has this night yielded-to the 'courage and
condu& of the Army in Egyr, 'though, perhaps, he
was not ;alit-1.04.c° tank its success so high as some
Gentlemen (10 He belie yea' that Officers and men
have displayed the greatest skill and gallantry; but,
as had been observed by an Hon. Getleman near
'him, (Mr.. Jones) the cause which had:made this
gallantry and skill necessary on this .:Meld of Ac.
lion, at least ought to be traced to its source, to.
the breach of Lll2 Convention of .E 1 'Arisch by the
late Ministers. Every drop of British blood that
is, shed, -every British life that is lost in the attempt
to expel the French
.from Egypt oaght to be laid
at their do,or. If they had ratified that C0n....
vention :the Frenc'h .would have been got out
of Egypt withoin the loss Of a' British and
then. the .army now' employed in endeavouring
to expel 'them from it; an. objea which it' may
accomplish, but which appeared..to him 'a matter
still very doubtful ; this army, which is "tbe
only disposable force of the Country, - might
have been applied to the defence of Portugal, our
old and *fai,c4ftil Ally. Egypt may be re.:conquer-
ed, and, no deubt, this would removE one obstacle

. _
to .Pc..ace; .but if Vortugal is conquered by the
United Arms of France and Spain, which, as this
Country has no disposable force to send for its de-
fence, is a thing almost inevitable& if she does not
'accede to any terms offered her, a new obstacle
to Peace, perhaps:even a greater obstacle than the
posSession of Egypt by the will be created.
But had it not beep for the folly of Hi; Majesty 's late
Ministers. in not ratifyi6g the Convention of El
Ariseh, the obstacle 'Of Egypt would not, at thi.s.
present day, have existed, and thedisposable force
of. the COuntry might nowt have been applied, though
he would not say that he wouldhaye advised such an
application of it, to, prevent the creation of this
new. obstacle.. What' is the:Condo:4. of the present
Ministers in this case ?' The assistance afforded or
intended to beafforded. by the late.Ministers,was al-
ways too. late in being.scnt ; dilatory were their
Councils, so procrastinated and uncertain were their
measures. Their successors, imitating their example,
proposed to send a subsidy to Portugal to invigorate

her defence against hee.Eneroles, which can; se7arcel
arrive before the. French in-theheart of ti
kit:oom. He' would ask, if Ministers had an
certain information-that there is a Portuguese-Army
in existence powerful enough to resist the invading
forces, till The Subsi:'te can arrive ? If there not,
as he believed, then the. present . Motion is as un-
justifiable. on the grounds -eoabling, the Queen of
Portugal to resist Invasion by force-, ay it is .fir the,
purpose of enabling her to pay. the ransom of t'eace.
On these groUnds he must_oppof:e the motion.
Mr:l3ll7.—fc The Subsidy which is now piopos.:
ea, die Hon. Gentleman'who spoke last complains,
was opened upon general grounds ;.and that the ma-
,: ons assigned for it are insufficient, he is pleased to
alledge—l think, if everl heard a plain distinti
Statement, on elearground, laid ietelligibly before
thei-louse, sods to leave no doubt,what wt are cal-
led upon to do, either. in point of Faith, Policy, or
Honour, it was the statement of• My Noble Friend ;
but I must say, that the Hon. Gentleman, in the
course of his Speech, went into. an argument • that
proceeded to the extreme, although in the beginning
of his Speech he maintained, that it is a Subjea on
winch the Extreme will not apply, that each case
of a Subsidy should be decided on its own circum.
stances ; ,and yet he-thought fit to 'say, that all the
Grants of Parliament on that subject, were without
any motive except the pleasure of granting -Subsi-
dies, that this plea'snre was to us a sufficient reason'
td grant a Subsidy, and that we never looked at the
consequeneesL==-NoW; Sir, 'I. will say, that if any
Gentleman 'will look back to the _ this
War, he will find, that whatever has been the.fate
of the, Continent, lve have given to •ihe different
Powers the best chance for their sale•zy, and that
the Money we have • laid' out on these. occasions,
Was- the. best way.of hying it cut, and :constituted
the cheapest bargains • utr our part in ..the present
Ware. lam perfectly ready to go into that Ques.
tion,.with the Hot). Gentleman wfirnever 'pleat:es.
-4he Hon. Gentleman says, he has no objetti-on
to make against the particular Subsidy -now. under
the consideration of the House ; but under 'the seine
hlance Of 'discuSiince this QuestiOn; takes an'op.
• tt -
,ortunity of renewing- his attecits upon' His Ma„
jesty's late Ministers: He rakes' the oppoirenity
of collaterally making charges against us, though
notice has -been repeatedly -given mi. a specific-J.l\4o-
tion on that subjeit.l, which Motion has. never yet
been brought forward. I, do.' Sir, most
,Strongly pro.
test against thginjustiee..oisuehproceedingsiebut I
will neither be drawn b'y these kind of observations
to do .a thing so , irregular_ to. the I louse, nor so op..
just to my Colleagues and myself, ,as to make ..ileir
condua'and mine, upon-this important Question,
.the
-subjea collateral, Debate—lf these Gentlemen re.,
ally think -they can substantiate.their charges against
us, they stand pledged to the House to bring them for
ward, and they_ cannot want an opportunity of so
doing ;• but I contend that they do not do their du-
ty as Members of Parliament, they do not at'With
candour to vs,' When-they depart from the' subject
in Debate, and either compel us to violate the or-
ders of the House -by following their example, or
by our silence to appear to acquiesce 'in the justice
Of the accusation. I Should. rather prefer the latter,
and hope Gentlemen will take some regular op-
Portunity of bringing forward those Charges. With
respect to the skuation of Portugal, he connects it
with the Expedition to Egypt, and says, that if the
latter had not been attempted; Portugal would
have been safe ; but .in the latter part of -his
Speech he says, that even if the Egyptian Ex-
pedition bad not been undertaken, lie would
not recommend that the Forces engaged in-it should
be employed in defence of Portugal, ' Leaving then
the importance of Egypt- out of is consideration,
he makes it a charge against the King's late Mini.
stern/ that we are prevented from assisting Portu-
gal, because so large a force has'been sent to Egypt;
and he says, that if that force had not been sent to
Egypt, he svoeld not recommend their being ern.

lightened,
'the and tits‘tatilin-llke
whielithe tivattiri rectinirn,rd in opPositiod tti`
emitiloyed.:br thl4.: late Administration; Who,' tro!n
the delnyi of whilch thry ,sere gAty, r,
forrnlY whc.;„ I say,
those delays, and theirunirortn.failures, have. sonic
how or. other Contrived, ani:;;lst the wreck cif Ern-
piOs and the' desolation of .Europe, - (12.priirt
.our
Enemies of alnidst all their Cui0:1;.....
reduce, almost to atinihilati ,I;,, thc-H ti
Striengili--:-:-to deprive them c:7,.and to 4,prc;;;l:is re
to ourselves; the whole of their Commerce; and to
maintain id security our territories in Cvery
of the Globe., _These, arc the .ucc6Ses %via,
which the late and tardy efforts of the last Admini.:
stratien have been crowned. It is to these Suc.6e'sses
that the Hon. Gentlethan owes the opportunity he
now makes use of;, to talk in this place with retro-
spedive criticism of the condu6l of thd War. But
I wish t 6 ask the Hon. rienileinan, holk We could
avoid sending a force. to Egypt, unless' we ileter_
mined to give it up to France.? He does riot deny
that it 'is an objea' of the grc-a.test imporiatieC 'to
this t oubtry; hut he says the Expedition woulci
have been unnecessary if we had agreed to the
Convention of El Arish.' Sir, thiS.subjett has been
'discussed more than Once—Were Mr., loNES ai
out, 'Hear' him ! Hear I Leg leave t(i
assure that Hon. Gentleman, that I will never:l-n.7

terrupt any °of his Speeches with. Hear him ! Heai-
him I nor, if I can avoid it,
,-will I undergo the
mortification of hearing any of hit declarations
upon this subjest Sir, the question which His Ma.,
jest Y's, late 'Ministers had to consider at dig petiOd
to',which the Hon. Gentleman alludes, was; ikhe.:
they it would be wise in us to'havc permitted so
many of the chosen and veteran Troops of FranCe
to have been landed in Italy,: moment when
the fare of the Campaign, of Europe, of every minor
State, and. especially of Portuaal, Was at stake ? If

any rational man at that moment, had been asked,
whether the security bf Portugal 'was \most likely
to be maintained by keeping these'sveteran Forces
in Egypt or by suffering th,:in to laud in Italy, it,
is impossible to, entertain a doubt With respea to
his answer... The Battle of Marengo was decided
against the Cause of Europe and the World ; but lei
it be recOleeted, that that Battle was nearly gained,
and that Cause which was so nearly balanCed with.-
, out the French,Army from Egypt, would have been
rendered desperate had they arrived: thesefore„ 1
saj7,. that the measure .which he wishes to,conned ,
with the state of Portugal. for the purpose 'Of erimi-
nating es,: is, as- -far as it.-is connected with it, a
proof of the good policy by which ourcordu6l was,
governed. We neverdid eeaSe in any one-period of
this arduous Contest to'give to our A lirs ithat as.
sistance and encouragement, which afforded them
the best:chance of-saving themselves and of afford.
lug security to Europe. We- postponed the con-
sideration of Egypt, though anobjed of grearim.
portanee to us,as long as there was any. chance ofsuc-
eess in the General Cause ;, but when ,the Austrians
were defeated, though we lamented their rever.;es,W e
did not negled our own Interests, and the Expedition
to Egypt took place. Of those who have foil& and
fallen, of those who have fought and conquered id ,
that Expedition I will say nothing, because all lan-
guage is inadequatesto their merits. But the Hon.
Gentle Man thinks this proposal comes too late, and
is too small for the purpose of affording effeanal re.
lief to Portugal. If that is really his opinion, ..he
might censure Ministers for not bringing it rot-
. ward sooner, but he ought, if he was consistent
with himself, endeavour to - accelerate that .which
he thinks too tardy, and to increase that which he
thinks too small, instead of opposing it, altpgether.
The Hon. Gentleman thinks this mitn is advanced,
to Portugal to induce her, against her judgment, to
continue the Contest—This language has been used
upon other: occasions.; but I think the explanation
given 'by my Noble Friend, -completely precludes
the:observation in the present instance. ' We do not.
desire Portugal to brave danger ; but we say; if
for their own sakes they think °.
it more wise, more
manly, .More dignified, and more safe Co meet the
danger rather than to agree to unknown Concession,
Indignity', and Insult, then Great Britain will be
true
,to her engagements ; and though we absolve
'them-from their promise to us,. we will not make
that abiolution a mask for our avarice, or our pa_
silanimity,is long as they have spirit and courage
enough (whichi no Subsidy could give tbem) nut 'to
Chnipromise with an' oppressing and purfidi6us

.Mr. GREY spoke „in reply. He did not expeet
thit the Right Hon. Gentleman would'have made
die accusationagainat him which.he hid done...:
would rather, have • expeded that the accusation
would have been, that he was 'too ready to bring '
charges -egainst the -Ministers of the Crown, than
thit he shrunk from that lie had many
charges to bring against the Right Hon. Gentle. '
roan, and if he did not entecinto them riow,. a day
triay come when he would probably do. so. •He had
.only mentioned this night one charge, and shortly
in. passing, as it arose fairly from the subjea before
the Hottse,-but the Right Hon. Gentleman has taken
up almost the whole of his speech in replying-to it.
Hi has once' more seated and defended the motives
which induced him' and his colleagues to re-
fuse to, ratify 'the. Convention of El AriSli:
Nothing. is of more impOrtince for ascertaining the
justice of, argimient used in Debate, this
than the.recollection of dates. He would, therefore,
call the House, that it may be enabled to decide on
the validity of the defence'now made by the Right
Hon. Gentleman, to recoiled some dates, and the
language held by• That Right Hon.,Gentleman; and
the other Ministers at the time. The Letter
.to.
Lord KElTH,',containing Instrudions not to ratify
the Convention of El Atish, he believed, wa;;"dated ,
the zBth of December, 1799. Bonaparte had only
a shOrt time before,- attained _the power which he
now possesses.• In the end of January, or. the be..
ginning of F4hruary, 1800, Ministers rejthed his
-overtures for Negotiation for Peace,
,knowing, that
• they had refused, to ratify the Convention for the
Evacuation of Egypt. What was the language then
held by the Right Hon. Gentleman and hiS Friesids'?
Was it that France had a strong and powerful Atiny
which was intended for the Invasion-and.Conquesr
of ittly ?—No.—Their language was, that the roap
sources of France were exhausted; that her Artnig.