The Sun.
London, England, 1839-02-26 00:00:00

them in money, and do not put ma your report.—
(Hear, hear.) His Hon. Friend had said that under
the present Act it was possible to work children eleven
hours consecutively without apprehension, on the part of
mill-owners, of being interfered with. This permission,
indeed, spoke little of the care of the House, for the
factory children.—(Hear, hear, hear.) But the pre-
sent Bill would permit them to be worked six hours
without intermission. Now, he would ask Hon. Mem-
bers who were accustomed to the bar and other engross-
ing occupations, who knew well what long abstinence
was, was it possible or right that children should be
made to work six hours without nourishment.—(Hear,
hear.) Indeed six hours was by far too long a time,
and he trusted that when the Bill came into Commit-
tee hia Hon. Friend would agree to diminish that pe-
riod. He thought. there was a material alteration
respecting surgeons' certificates. Now, at present a
.urges;: certified to the age of a child, and was fre-
quently under tho real number of years in his judgment,
hot the present Bill provided that if it were proved
that the surgeon was incorrect, it would not be allowed
to set the child to work for some time.—(Hear.)
Mr. SL ANEY said that having for a long time
felt a deep interest in this question, he had much
pleasure in now offering his thanks to his Honourable
Friend, for the great improvements proposed in his
measure. He agreed with the Noble Lord that there
was something false iu the details, but he was certain
that if the spirit of the measure were generally carried
out, it would effect many beneficial alterations, and do
much on behalf of the poor factory children. He
should not advert to the details of the Reports of the
inspectors, but it was quite clear that the Bill which
the House before agreed to was not adequate to pre-
sent children of improper age from being set
to work, or all those who might work from being
kept too many hours employed, as could be
proved in a number of instances, with which he would
not now detain the House. Hitherto the form of cer-
tificates issued by the surgeon was not sufficiently
stringent ; so that in many cases, children under the
eges of nine and thirteen had been cruelly overworked.
Under the new form to be substituted by his Hon.
Friend, it would be almost impracticable for a surgeon
to set down the age of the child at less than it really
was. There was only one other point which he would
refer to—the clause respecting the education of children.
lie would venture to suggest to his Hon. Friend that
the clauses which had been introduced were not suffi-
cient for the purposes he had in view. They required,
indeed, that the attendance of the child should be cer-
tified—that die master should have a certificate without
which the child should not be allowed to work. Unless
something more was done, contests would he continually
taking place between the master on the one hand, and the
mill-owner on the other, that the child should not attend
any school, and it was likely the whole thing would be
a farce. He said that in consequence of the Corn-
inittee which sat last year, of which he had the honour
to be Chairman, when it was demonstrated that the
attendance of children at the factory schools was little
better than a farce, he considered the moral and
religious education of these children, with the evil
example they had before them, of the first consequence
to the country. He ventured to impress upon her
Majesty's Government the necessity of appointing
inspectors to visit those schools, and make due
returns of the attendance. The expense would be very
trifling, not perhaps more than one or two thousand
pounds per annum, and he believed that a sufficient
number of inspectors would ensure the due education
of the children ; and he believed on the score of eco-
nomy, the money would be soon repaid to the country.
He would not do more at present than mention the
point, Loping that it would meet the views of her Ma-
jesty's Government. It was proved before the Com-
mittee to which he had alluded, that in the three
great factory town.; of that kingdom, there was no edu-
cation worthy of the name. In Leeds, there was only
1 in 41, educated ; in Birmingham only one in 38 ; and
in Manchester, 1 in 35 : whereas it was found requisite
on examination, after making every due allowance, that
education should be afforded to 1 in B.—( Hear, hear,)
If that small number only were receiving edu-
cation in Birmingham, Manchester, and Leeds, he
would ask how much fewer were the number in
other manufacturing towns. The working classes were
as 66 to 1 in Manchester, while they were as 80 to 1
in Ashton, and upwards of 90 in Staleybridge and
Dukinfield.
Mr. BAINES said the principle of the Bill had
been very clearly explained by -his Honourable Friend.
It was that children under thirteen yeers of age should
work 48 hours per week, or eight hours per day. If,
instead of eight hours a-day, the time had been limited
to six hours, he should deem is- an improvement, be-
cause it would divide the day into more definitive parts.
A great deal of confusion had arisen from eight hours
being proposed instead of six, because the latter would
divide the day into two equal parts. With respect to
the agitation of which they had heard so much, the
country, he contended, was never more free from it.
In fact, there was none. Not a single petition
had been laid before the House. There were
no petitions from either the masters or the
workmen. In reality they were now legislating under
very different circumstances than when the Bill was first
enacted. Then the whole country was in a flame, but
now the agitation had subsided. Nothing should inter-
fere with the free course of legislation, and if they did
their duty as they ought, they should not suffer any
interference from either of the parties interested, either
the employers or the employed. At the same time he
must say that the Bill was an anomaly, because he found
that only one class of people in the country was placed
under these restrictions. The Factory Masters were
placed under restrictions, but there were others who
should be restrained in a similar degree. Were not the
Colliers obnoxious to these restrictions—nay in that
City where so much of humanity, so laudably prevailed,
where last year the wives and daughters of Members
of Parliament were solicited to interfere on behalf of
the factory children, if they went into the shops where
the milliners and dress-makers of London were em-
ployed, they would find a great many more abuses than
in these factories.—(Hear, and a laugh.) It might be
said that was not an abuse when the number was so
great. He believed there were more persons over-
worked in the milliners and dress-makers' establish-
ments than in all the factories in England.—(Much
laughter.) He was told—of course not on his own
knowledge—(Great cheering, and laughter)—he had
been told that it was not at all an unusual thing for
young females of tender age to be employed in those
places for 12, 14, 16, and 18 hours in the day. He
did not know how the Noble Lord could reconcile
such facts with his professed humanity.—( Hear.) The
number of persons so employed was larger than in the
factories, and they had never attracted the attention of
his Noble Friend. He gave the Noble Lord credit
for the purest feelings, but he thought his humanity
should have extended to persons entitled to his best
consideration. There was another point connected with
this subject by which the number of hours might be
diminished, and that was by making food more cheap ;
by repealing the taxes on food.—(Cheers.) Then, in-
stead of having the children employed twelve hours a
day, ten would be sufficient ; that would apply not only
to children but to adults, and he hoped the Noble Lord
would turn his attention to the subject in the course of
his legislation on factories. On the Continent the chil-
dren were not restrained from working any number of
hours in the day they and their masters thought proper
to appoint. It was a grievous hardship upon the
manufacturers that they were compelled to re-
duce the number of working hours.—(Cries of
of " Question.") He hoped he was not speaking from
the question, but he contended that the restraints im-
posed upon the manufacturers of that country tended
to banish them to the Continent. If the manufac-
tures were destroyed what would become of the landed
interest ? Food was 60 or 70 per cent. higher in that
country than on the Continent, and yet the hours of
labour were restrained, so that persons on the Continent
worked 20 per cent. per day beyond the time the
English manufacturing operative worked, These were
considerations which the House should not lose sight
of. If they proceeded in their present course of legs
lation they would drive the manufacturers from that
country, and they would place both them and
the landed interests in a most deplorable situation.
If they were to have factory legislation they could not
proceed more wisely than in the course suggested by his
Hon. Friend, and the restrictions introduced by him
seemed well calculated to attain the end he proposed.
He had no intention todivide the House ; he would sup-
port the Bill to the best of his power, reserving to him-
self, when it was in Committee, to offer any suggestions
that might present themselves to his own mind, or might
emanate from his constituents, who were deeply inte
rested in this measure.

Mr. B ROTHE RTON could not agree with his Hon.
Friend, that no legislation was required upon this sub-
ject. All his experience proved that legislation was not
only necessary but highly beneficial. The distinction
was very clear between the case of factory children, and
milliners, and dressmakers. In factories, both old and
young, both weak and strong, were obliged to
work together, and at the same time—if one part of the
machinery was stopped the whole was stopped ; and of
course every person b€longing to the factory was for the
time out of employment. With respect to trades
not dependant on machinery if one workman was
taken ill his place might be supplied by another, or his
loom, or whatever he might work at, might stand idle—
hut with spinning factories the case was very different.
It was perfectly clear from the number of frauds which
had been practised under the late Bill, that new legisla-
tion was necessary. It was perfectly clear that there
was something radically wrong. He was always in
favour of a simple law upon this subject. It was not his
object to oppose the second reading of the Bill, but in
Committee he would hold himself at liberty to propose
certain amendments, which in his opinion would