The Sun.
London, England, 1837-02-22 00:00:00

Protestant.—( Hear.) That for the same reason they will
not pave the street before his honse, and that
_they- will tell the
watchman not to watch it ; and even suppose them to do all
these things, how, I ask, is this to affect the Irish Church Es-
teblishment. Really, Sir, is hen this opposition is pot epote
anything like a definite ground, it necessarily sipptere so lu-
dicrous and contemptible, that we are driven to believe that
something more is intended than is openly stated.—( Hear,
Lear. ) There is no fear that these corporate bodice. will or can
attack the Irish Church ; but it is believed that they will ace
custom the people to self-government; that the great maseus
will thus, by the protection afforded them, become mere power-
ful ; and that the oppression and insult se long the favourite
pleasure of the persecuting minority of Ireland, will thus
be entirely destroyed.—(Cheers.) The powers conferred
arc not things dreaded ; the immediate Mischief to per-
sonal security, or to property, which is so much 'talked
of, is not, in fact, appreLended ; but the habits that
will be created among the people are, indeed, viewed
uith intense and unecntrolable terror. We dread, 9lyt the
peaceful Orangeman, he who has been a turbulent tyrant all
his life, we dread the agitation that will be practised in these
Corporations. There is nothing like giving an ill werd to a
thing—( Hear)—this fashion of fallacy is as old as language.
Let us, however, learn what is actually meant. What is meant
is, that the people of the towns will now govern themselves.;
they will be accustomed to elect their own councillors; they
will daily, before the eyes of their constituents, carry on the
business of the neighbouahood ; the people will watch them ;
u ill acquire daily and hourly the habits necessary for the due
use of the representative machinery. They will daily act still
further beyond the subjection to which they have hitherto been
accustomed. In short, Sir, they will hourly become a more
independent and better convinced people.—( Hear.) Hence
this opposition—hence all this anger—hence all this base dis-
simulation, this whining hypocrisy concerning religion and
Protestantism.—( Hear.) Religion is not what they are anxi-
ous about, but power—power which they are about to lose,
and which, up to the present day, the Government of this
country has allowed them to employ to their own indivi-
dual benefit and the general ruin.—( Hear, hear.) In the
hope of exciting the people of England to resist with them this
desired reform, they have attempted to join their unholy inte-
rests to those of the religion of this country ; they are now
trying to play upon our credulity, and seek, by the aid of fana-
ticism and bigotry, to maintain their own mischievous domi-
nion ; but. their day is over—( Hear)—their power is doomed to
destruction ; and spite of the assistance and pious endeavours of
the Hon. Gentleman opposite, justice will be done to Ireland.
—(Cheers.) Before I sit down I hope the House will permit
me to call their attention, and more especially the attention of
the Right lion. Gentleman the Member for Tamworth, to the
end which the opponents of this Bill must have in view. If we
deny this measure to Ireland, we must be prepared to govern
that country upon principles entirely different from by which the
Government of Great Britain is guided.—( Hear.) Now, lam
not going to ask if they be willing to do this. I would only
ask the Right lion. Gentleman if he can do it? Does he be-
lieve that a whole people, amounting to near seven millions of
souls are to be thwarted and insulted with impunity ?—( Hear.)
Does he believe that at this period of man's history, and by the
side of the most enlightened nation of the earth, principles and
doctrines of government suited for the dominion of St. Peters-
burgh can be carried into actual practice ? Let me put the
Puestion plainly :—Does any one believe that the system of
rotestant supremacy can be continued in Ireland without civil
war ?—( Hear, hear.) Is he prepared upon any ground stated
by him, or that can be suggested by his friends, to risk a civil
war in Ireland ?_( Hear, hear.) If he be not prepared for
this, his conduct appears without any defence. The world at
large usually attributes to the Right Hon. Gentleman the qua-
lity of prudence. He has won this reputation by a regulated
demeanour—by a somewhat precise, formal, and guarded man-
ner of expressing his opinions. A reputation of this descrip-
tion is, I allow, of great advantage, but it leads men some-
times to scrutinize severely conduct that in others might pass
-without much comment.—( Hear, hear.) We assume that the
Right Hon. Gentleman always knows what he is doing—that
he has weighed the consequences of his acts, and that he is
prepared for them. Thus in the present case we assume that
be sees the great dangers of his course—we suppose that when
he has aided in denying this measure to Ireland, that he is
prepared to govern her at the bayonet's point—that he is pre-
pared to justify before the people the ruin, disaster, and blood-
shed that will follow his hopeful project. We pscsume that
he tees these things._that he acts upon reflection—and we
judge him accordingly,—(The Hon. Member sat down amidst
loud cheers.)
Mr. SHAW would at once direct his observations to the
question before the House. It was asked why they refused to
give to Ireland the same institutions as were called good for
England and Scotland ; but the House had been told by the
Hon. Member for Teignmouth, and the Hon. Member for
Huntingdon, that Corporate Reform had done no good for the
country.—(Hear.) Not a single town had petitioned for a
charter of incorporation. He would willingly give the same
institutions to Ireland as England and Scotland, if the situa-
tions of the countries were similar, but he contended they were
not. He had been asked why the people of Ireland should
not be allowed to manage their own Corporation affairs.
His answer was that they never could, for there was a higher
power that would not allow them—the power of the Hon.
Member for Kilkenny.—( Hear.) The Noble Lord the
Member for Northumberland said the Church had been in-
troduced that night for the first time. Such was not the
fact —it formed the subject of debate last Session. There
could not be a doubt but that the object of the present Bill
was to overthrow the Protestant Church in Ireland.—( Hear. )
That Church was obnoxious to certain parties who led the
people on to the destruction of the Protestant Establishment.
It was said that Corporation Reform was not denied, because
the people were Irish, but because they were Roman Ca-
tholics. No such statement had ever been made. He did
not think, however, that if power was given, it would be pre-
judicial to all parties. They all agreed that the old Corpo-
rations should he abolished, and a good and peaceful local
government established. The only difference was as to the
mode of obtaining it.—(Hear.) The Government said, give
forty-seven Corporations to Ireland. Those who differed
frcern them considered justice would be best administered by
abolishing them altogether. He agreed as to the mode of ap-
pointing Sheriffs and police officers—he agreed to place those
appointments under the controul of the Government. He
also agreed in the expediency of abolishing tolls, as far as
possibl, and then to give the residue of corporate funds, if
any, in equal proportions to every district, but not to have any
Corporation in future. Ireland was divided into two great
parties, which might be called the Protestant party and Catho-
lic party. The first was determined to support and uphold the
Established Church ; they would part with all political and
civil rights sooner than they would consent, for one moment, to
give up the interests of the Church.—(Hear.) The opinions
of the Catholic party might be understood by the language
and writings of the Hon. and Learned Member for Kilkenny,
who said to the Protestants, " You have had your day, and
we will now have ours."—( Hear.) The present was not a
bone fide measure of relief to Ireland—it was not for the sole
purpose of Corporation Reform, but to encourage normal schools
of agitation.—( Hear.) The Hon. and Learned Member then
referred to several clauses in the Bill, and the letters of
Mr. O'Connell, which he contended clearly proved that the
projectors of the measure were not actuated by the sole de-
sire of reforming corporations in Ireland. It was clear to him
(Mr. Shaw) that the Government were suspicious of their
own measure.—( Hear, hear, from the Opposition benches.)
He would ask, was it likely to establish good government in
Ireland to have annual corporation elections—( Hear, hear),_
to give opportunities for party triumphs, and to create a system
of everlasting canvassing ?._( Hear.) Surely, this was a cu-
rious remedy for the evils which existed. The House was
told that nearly two millions of people in Ireland were border-
ing on starvation. He would ask, if giving them 47 corpo-
rations would do any good towards relieving their wants ?-e-
-( Hear, hear.) In fact, Corporate Reform would never have
created the least interest in Ireland had it not been for the agi-
tetion of the lion. Member for Kilkenny.—( Hear, hear, from
Mr, O'Connell.) The Hon. Member not only insisted upon
Corporate Reform, but for the total abolition of tithes; and
then in one of his letters lie said that the destruction of the
Church would soon follow.—( Hear.) Suppose Lord Lynd-
hurst did use the expression that the Irish were aliens in
blood, aliens in language, and aliens in religion, but which he
slid not admit—( Hear)—what was the language of the lion.
Member for Kilkenny towards the people of England ?
Let the House hear in mind the lion. Member's abuse of
the English, and then they would not think much of what was
called the insulting language of the Noble and Learned Lord.
—( Hear.) Hon. Members on his ( Mr. Shaw's) side of the
House, were also told that they gave rise to the National
Association in Ireland. lie totally denied that statement ;
but the objects of that Association were of the most danger-
ous description. Mr. Marcus Costello said the Association,
in less than twelve months, would break the necks of their
opponents.—( Hear.) Several appointments to Commissions in
the Peace had lately been made of the most violent agitators
ill Ireland. How then could good government be expected,
or justice administered in such a state of things? The lion.
and Learned Member concluded by saying that many lion.
Gentlemen Mould vote for the present question, because it
was one step further towards the destruction of the Protestant
Church in Ireland.—( Hear.)
Mr. BROTHERTON then rose. (it being three minutes
',net twelve o'clock) and moved art adjournment which was
carried.
The Orders of the the Day ;,;ere then disposed of, and the
Ilouse adjourned at a queertei. past Twelve o'Clock.

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, e have been informed that some infatuated
wretches have revived the " Scotch Cattle" atrocities on the
Hdlg.—Let the malefactors beware !An unfortunate man
suffered an ignominious death in front of the gaol of Mon-
mouth, in the Spring Assises of 1833, for joining a riot of this
description ; and the Judges of the land will let the law take
its Course on future convictions.--41Ierlin.
The total number of petitions for private bills pre-
sented to tho House of Commons this Session, is 248; of
which number there are 77 Bills for railways, 2.3 for roads, 11
'creanals, 14 for harbours, and 12 for inelosures. There are
‘rnong the railway bills four for railways to Brighton, in addi-
tion
are for altering the lines of railways and extending the powers
conferred by Acts previously obtained.
At a Court of Aldermen yesterday, Mr. Alderman
Thompson brought forward a proposition for a vote of I,oooi.
each to the Recorder, Common-Sergeant, and Mr. Sergeant
Arabin, for their past services and extra duties at the Central
Criminal Court. Mr. Alderman Farebrother seconded the
morlW-OfrpAiderman Brown felt it to be his duty, under
tho4ircumihinleei 'al the case, to oppose it. Mr. Alderman
Xi'ood having suggested the propriety of a conference being
/quested with the Common Council, Mr. Alderman Thomp-
n withdrew his proposition ; when a resolution for a conic-
. enee was agreed to, and a deputation appointed for the
PutP"ell