The Sun.
London, England, 1863-05-01 00:00:00

ERIAL P

HOUSE OF LORDS.—Last Evening.
Tho LORI) CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack at
tho ueual hour.

POLAND.

The Earl of SHAFTESBURY said in consequence of
the non-receipt of some despatches from St. Petersburg he
should postpone presenting the petition entrusted to him by
the citizens of London until Friday next, the Bth of May.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.
The Inverness and Perth Junction Railway, West
Hartlepool Harbour and Railway, Peterborough Cattle
Markets, Rixton and Warburton Bridge, and Nottingham
Cras Bills were read a second time.

THIRD READINGS,
The Caledonian Railway (Bredesholm Deviation), Scar-
borough Water, Inverness and Aberdeen Junction Rail-
way, Cleveland Railway, and Rugby Water Bills were read
time and passed.

THE WAR IN AMERICA,
THE SEIZURE OF MAIL BAGS.
Earl RUSSELL said as the question of the Peterhoff
and the detention of her Majesty's mails had been the sub-
ject of discussion in the house the other evening, it might
be convenient if he stated the substance of some informa-
tion he had received that day from Lord Lyons. Lord
Lyons states that in answer to his application with respect
to the Peterhoff and her cargo, that the American Govern-
ment had determined to send her before the Prize Court.
With regard to the rn,il bags sent by her Majesty's Post-
master-General, in conformity with the letter of October 31,
they would be sent forward to their destination, and in any
similar case he should proceed in the same course until
some agreement bad been arrived at between her Majesty's
Postmaster-General and the United States Government.
He did not think the law of nations laid el,wn any precise
rule with regard to the somewhat novel practice of forward-
ing mails by private ships, and therefore Mr. Seward wished
to make some communication to her Mhjesty's Government.
Ile could not state what that communication would be, be-
cause it would be matter for further consideration.
Lord CHELMSFORD asked if he understood the noble
earl to say that the mails would be forwarded without
breaking the seals ?
Earl RUSSELL said the noble lord had heard him cor-
rectly, and when the communication had been received
from the American Government by her Majesty's Govern-
ment, they would first consider the answer, and what other
steps were to be taken in the matter,
DRAINAGE OF LAND (IRELAND) BILL.
This bill was read a third time and passed.
CORRUPT PRACTICES AT ELECTIONS BILL.
Earl RUSSELL moved the second reading of this bill.
Lord REDES DALE objected to one of the provisions of
the measure, which gave the House of Commons the power
of suspending a writ, under certain conditions, for five
years.

Lord LYVEDEN remarked that some of the clauses in
the bill were of a very novel character, and seemed to be
framed upon the assumption that the honest and respect-
able voters in a borough were responsible for the acts of
the rascally and disreputable section. He would not,
however, oppose the bill, because he really did not be-
lieve it mattered one farthing whether it ed or not. It
was evidently a mere attempt as a salve for the troubled
conscience of the Legislature, which pretended to be doing
something of importance very actively, when in reality it
was doing nothing at all. Were it sincerely desired to stop
bribery, measures of a much more effectual character might
easily be suggested and adopted. Even if it could not be
altogether put down, it might be very sensibly diminished
by a much more summary process than the bill provided.
No public prosecutor was appointed ; and, however notori-
ous the corruption might be, there was nobody to take up
the question but the defeated candidate, and he had no mo-
tive to come forward, because, although he might succeed
in unseating his opponent, he did not thereby seat himself.
Re had consequently very little ind cement to interfere.
Moreover, the gentleman who committed the bribery suf-
fered no punishment, even if he lost his seat. He lost no
social position, nor even the prospect of advancement in the
state, or a seat for some other place. All that might be
very easily remedied. When in the other house he (Lord
Lyveden) had stood eleven contests, the first of which cost
him £4,000, and the last (owing to the vigorous conduct of
his committee) only £4OO. He regretted to say that he did
not think the measure proposed would have the slightest
effect in the world in arresting the system of bribery which
seemed to pervade the whole country.
Lord VERULAM said he would not oppose the bill,
though he thought it was wrong and ineffective.
Earl GREY thought it was the most absurd piece of
legislation ever presented to the house, if its real object was
to put an end to bribery. What was most important
was, to stop the present system of agents," which was
simply a disguise for gross bribery. Those agents were
appointed nominally for the service of the election, but, in
fact, as a mere blind for paying them for their votes,
and, as had been proved before the committee in the
House of Commons, it was the most effective method of
bribery in existence. Bribery, however, could never be
put down by Act of Parliament. So long as there was
one set of men determined to be bribed, and another deter.
mined to bribe them, no legislation could stop the evil.
Earl RUSSELL thought that, though the bill mightnot
be an effectual bar to bribery, it might check the disposition
to bribe; and if any clause should be considered objection-
able, it could be altered in committee.
The Earl of DERBY hoped that, as some of the clauses
were both novel and important, the bill would not be hastily
sent into committee.
The bill was then read a second time.
HARES (IRELAND) BILL—INCLOSURE BILL.
These bills were read a second time.
FORTIFICATIONS AT SPITHEAD.
The Earl of HARDWICKE rose to ask a question with
regard to the continuation of the works on the forts at Spit-
head. The session before last considerable sums of money
had beeen placed at the disposal of the crown for the pur-
pose of strengthening the fortifications of the United King-
dom. Amongst other works of importance commenced last
year were the works at Spithead, for the defence of the en-
trance to the channel at that place. After the Govern-
ment had expended a large sum of money in nearly com-
pleting the foundations of those works considerable doubt
arose in the public mind as to the efficiency of those fortifi-
cations, and after some discussion Government gave way,
and suspended the works for the present. The money
thus literally sunk under water was not far short of
£lOO,OOO. But within the last month an event had taken
place on the other side of the water, namely, in the port
of Charleston, which had awakened the public mind,
and also induced him to take that opportunity of asking
her Majesty's Government what were their intentions
with regard to the future procedure of the works in ques-
tion. The theory had been from the most ancient times that
the fortress always had an advantage over ships. He could
state a number of instances where that had been proved, of
which a few would be sufficient. The noble earl then briefly
referred to the case of the Pompey in 1809, commanded by
Sir Sidney Smith, which had been beaten off by the single
gun of a martello tower ; to the attack on Copenhagen,
when the fleet would doubtless have been destroyed had it
continued; to Algiers, where the ships were thoroughly
beaten off, with the loss of 1,000 men ; and to the proceed-
ings in the Black Sea. He maintained that the question
as between forts and ships was now practically settled, and
the similarity between the defences of Charleston and Spit-
head was very remarkable. He wished, therefore, to know
what the Government intended to do, because if the works
were to be proceeded with, it was important not to let the
summer season go by in idleness. If the summer were los
very large outlay would be required the following year to
put the works in only their present condition. He was re-
luctant to offer any opinion as to the way the money should
be expended, but it was his own impression that a fort
should be erected on the Brambles, a shoal at the head of
the Southampton water, from which central position the
guns could reach the shore in each direction, and thus form
a complete defence for the port.
The Duke of SOMERSET said the works had not been
abandoned, but simply suspended. It had been considered
that where there was any doubt as to their efficiency it
would be as well to pause. The expense, however, had not
been so large as the noble earl supposed. Up to the 31st of
July, 1862, it had been but £53,000, and subsequent events
had shown that a more favourable spot for the experiment
could not have been selected. The distance between our
forts at No Man's Land and the sandbanks was exactly
2,000 yards, and the distance from Fort Sumter to Fort
Moultrie was exactly 2,000 yards. In both places there was
a strong current and tide, and in both there were certain
facilities for approaching within a certain distance of the
fort. In case of an attack the means of defence would be pre.
cis ely the same, and therefore a more suitable place could not
have been chosen. With regard to the vessels the result
was not in all respects equally satisfactory. About four-
teen months ago the world was informed that the American
Government had built an iron-clad ship, which they had
named the Monitor as a warning to the British Admiralty.
It had been a warning, certainly, seeing that the first gale
it got caught in, it went to the bottom. They then built
some other vessels of the same description, but they had not
been built of sufficient strength to render the recent experi-
ment entirely conclusive. Very little, too, was known about
the
esort of guns or the quantity of powder used, and several
other matters very
important to be known before a sound
judgment could be arrived at. So far as those particular
vessels, however, were concerned,
concerned, there could be no doubt
they had been completely defeated. With respect to the
further progress of the fortifications, the Government would
shortly have to lay before Parliament a scheme showing
what was proposed to be done; because, ofcounroste
,toiflettlitheey
were to be continued, it would be important

summer go over.
The Earl of DERBY said it appeared that the spot where
the chief damage was done by the concentrated fire was not
so much as 2,000 yards, but from 300 to 500.
The Duke of SOMERSET said from the chart it seemed
that the nearest vessel was about 600 yards from the guns
of the forts; 2,000 yards was the distance across between
tho forts.
~,E,:vi
Earl GREY thought that the town of Charleston was six
miles behind the ports. If a fleet of similar vessels
w'r° to get as near to the forts at Spithead, they would be
tin,abled to shell Portsmouth and the arsenal ; and it should