The Sun.
London, England, 1830-02-17 00:00:00

.GREECE.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL said—ln rising to bring
forward the question of which I have given notice,
I beg leave to state, that in proposing it my object
has been rather to obtain a declaration from the
Right Hen. Gentleman opposite than to enter on
any hostile discussion of this subject. The events
that have recently passed, and the explanations
lately given in another place by the Ministers of the
Crown, have tended a good deal to meet the views
I had in bringing forward the motion. lam very
glad that, by what has already taken place, I am re-
lieved from the necessity of founding this motion on
the history of the late war between Russia and
Turkey, for I feel how difficult it would have been
to undertake such a discussion without having access
to those papers which his Majesty's Government
alone"at present possess; but there are one or two
points with regard to the settlement of Greece—
which settlement must in a few days take place—
. that call for some explanation. The first regards
the form of the Government that is intended to be
established in Greece. On this point there have
been sinister rumours circulated with respect to the
intention of the Allied Powers, who, it was said,
had intended to introduce a deTotic Government
into Greece. lam happy to say that these rumours
have been dispelled by the declarations recently
made by one of the Secretaries of State, and I hope
that the Right Hon. Gentleman will have no ojec-
tiOn to renew that declaration, and will state that
his Majesty's Government has no intention to in-
terfere to prevent the Greeks from governing them-
selves, according to their wishes and their wants.
Such a declaration would gratify me exceedingly;
for while, on the one hand, there is nothing more
odious than the introduction, by such a nation as

this, of a despotic Government into any country ; so,
Majesty has recently concertedon the other hand, lam aware how difficult it is to for the
with his Allies, measmes
the pacification and final a Atlement of Greec^ ; and it
adapt any Constitution to a people composed of a
number of different classes of men, whose habit's trusts that his Majesty will be enabled, at an early period,
to give such information as may explain the course his
and oiigin arc essentially different ; and I therefore Majesty
has pursued in this important transaction.
see
GovernmentlifieYto be
in Greece, final settlement will be found to tecure to Greece terri-
iCeteucael,iteixecsetia:t " That it is the confident hope of this. "louse, ;hat such
by consulting the feelings of the people who are to
be rukd by it. At the same time, I feel as en
adbecbieetis:lteacribololiisfsitieiatduf,reenferteceopduzotirtmttryo,fithat tmoeryotau,ffiiiclichnet fpotr.o,niadt:dona,vlittlieifefnuclel ;paonst.lettshatot taldieopGtoetheton,-,
3°tlitic.
al; Englishman,
l ltifl:e.leeVrndaSonn:ai—taensllisi
freedom—should
tiretipteuotpio!en.sn which are suited to the wishes and wants of
Mr. Secretary PEEL—Notwithstanding the pe-
culiar circumstances in which lan, placed, I trust
principles on whch its Government is to be esta-
that I shall be enabled to give such general expla-
Wished. There is another point of a more doubtful
nations to the Noble Lord as may induce hint to be
nature to which I will now allude. I mean the
can state to the House, without fear of opposition,tkei
question of the territory to be given to Greece. the House upon his motion. I say that lam
of opinion opinion that it is not necessary to take the sense
that as the question of Greece has been placed under peculiar circumstances, because the House
will recollect
tthheatTobtrrotnhee filrisstldiay of the Session, in the
by the Allied Potters—as it has been the object of aiinest,y:onstitit;:rn,ditthat
.in con-
a treaty, and of hostile operations, in order to effect junction with his Allies, and Neat
oi tnhe 1 thed
the settlement of its Government, it is necessary Treaty of the 6th July, he was on the point ijii.
that that settlement should be such as is likely to oe ing a final arrangement for the pacification of Greece, and
permanent and that the frontier to be iven to for the determination of its relations with the rest of Eu-
Greece should be such as may enable her tog preserve rope ; and his Majesty was pleased to add, that all the
papers connected with that arrangement, sufficient to ex-
herself in independence, without a prospect of the
plain the course be had taken, should be laid before Par-
repetition of those evils which are stated in the
liament at an early period. In my official capacity I ant,
preamble to the treaty of July 1827. If that point,
of course, cognizant of those papers ; and I cannot help
obvious and necessary as it is, were the declared
it:lfinking that nothintg could be more inclnvedent than
policy of the Government, I should hardly fee! it :
; ~timomeztotilsiseiop,relsvehniirbmze, moment to be drawn into an un-
necessary to make any motion on the subject y.ilnvolv.e that information of
whiclyi ere low the lous! 1%11 be in possestsioa. Were I
(but on this subject itself 1 have received informa•
don front various pemiw a buck vcvdit and aucho- drawn into aura itdi4cUssaa, Ido not know how 1 mild

avoid availiug myself of that iliformation, thus obtaining
an advantage in debate which oti ere do not enjoy. I
therefore trust that the object of the Noble Locd will be
attained, although I do not enter into that discussion ;
but if it should heresiter ;Ake, and if the Noble Lord
should deem it necessary to take the sense of .the
House, I hope that the forms of the Helm/ will not
prevent my offering some further observation..--
(Hear, hear, hear.)—The Noble Lord avows that his
main object is, if pe‘eible, to procure an explanation ‘4l
two points which he deems of pressing intportanre.--•
I. The nature of the institutions provided by the allied
for the future govei omen! of Greene-2. The territorial
limit sto be, ass'gned to the new State. On the first pei"e
I apprehend 1 shall he en,bled to give complete satis'ae-
thm. I assure the Noble Leo!, that in the arrangements,
the bases of which bays !men laid by the Allitee who are
parties to the Treaty of the Gilt Jnly, although the Noble
Lied seems to have heard rumours to the contrary, tio
attempt has been nook to dictate despotic Monarchy to
Greece.—(blear, hear.)—No provision is made in the
arrangements which can controul the establishment of
such institutions as may he conipetib e with the presoit
situation of Greece. I ran also venture to discleina, err-
tainly on the part of my own country, and I believe ea
the part of Frat.ce and Russia, any wish to interfere with
the formation of such institutions as are best calculated to
secure the liberty and promote the happiness of Greece.
--Clieers.)—lnto the second point, which relates to the
limits of the new State, I can scarcely enter without en
infringement of the principle to which I referred at the
commencement of my observations. On the 22d of
March was issued a Protocol, to which the Noble Lord to-
ferret!, and which in some way or other obtained publicity
in the Continental Journals, relating to the limits of Greece,
and the Noble Lord has expressed his apprehensions:that rho
boundaries now about to be assigned will be less than those
mentioned in the Protocol. I feel that the present is not the
()erasion for entering into the details, but I can venture to
snore the Noble Lord, that the arrangement now in pro-
gress fur the independence, happiness, and security of ,
Greece is, in toy opinion, much more favourable than that •
which was contemplated in the Protocol.--(Hear.) The
territorial limits mty he less extensive, but the compensa-
tion for the more confined limits will, I think, he found
ample. The Noble Lord justly observes, that it must be
the policy of those countries which entered Into the
Treaty of 6th July, to give Greece such security as in her
infancy will protect her from foreign interference: he,
therefore, wishes that she shall have a frontier capable of
being easily defended. It may be sufficient for me to as-
sure
the Noble Lord that there is no such limitation of
the new St tte as he appears to believe is contemplated-- '
that the boundaries will he far more extensive than the
Morea—(Hear, hear)—and that it will include all those
places with which our historical recollections are grate.-
fully associated, and that the nature of the frontier will in
a considerable degree afford the means of defence. But
the question of limits is of much less importance, pre.-
yided those States which entered into the Treaty of the 6111
July have completed that arrangement, which we hope
will be a fulfilment of that engegement—provided also,
that those States, under whose fostering care this not
Government is to be established, feel that interest in its
prosperity which will induce them, until its resources are
of themselves sufficient, to undertake the guarantee of its
independence.—( fI. ar, hear.) With regard to the anxiety
of this country to support the Government of Turkey, it
would be recollected by the Noble Lord, that on a former
occasion some sarcastic remarks had been made upon the
supposed attachment of Ministers to Turkish institcs
tious—as if, because they did not wish for the dismal'
bertnent of the Ottoman Power, they necessarily admired
its institutions. At that time I protested against set
such interference and I added, that I thought ,
could prove, by the opinions of Statesmen sereegll
attached to liberty and liberal institutions, that it was penis'
sible to entertain a desire to preserve the integrity 0,
Turkey without the implication that it was fit to support
its system of internal Governmerit. The Noble Lord 10•4
spoken of the opinion entertained by Mr Fox in 1791, butt. 1
in 1806 the cireumetancee of Europe were certainly sue' I
as to induce Mr. Fox to think that it was for the genef'l
interest of Europa—for the sake of the preservation 0,
the tranquillity of the world, that the independence o', '
Turkey should be secured. There was another proof of
bring
opinions
:ingf forward.
o ,
d.f Mr.tlh,eoxcooirirrstehs ofi stthibejedcits,cuwashiich I
ons
wditihd 000:
French Gavernment in 1806, a proposition was made VI
Prince Talleyrand, that some compensation should he
made to Sicily, by the establishment of a new State, On',
sisting of Albania and the Mores. Mr. Fox protected
against this proposed dismemberment of Turkey, contend'
ing that it ought to be part of the policy of Great Britain,
France, and Russia, to preserve the integrity _of the
Turkish power. Mr. Fox, therefore, attached great iii'
pertance to the maintenance of Turkey as an iudependertS .
state ; but I hope that the mention of this topic will not
tend to introduce discussion. I did not on a former 'der,
mean to state Mr. Fox's views as to the general system to
European policy. I only wished to show by that instaneff
that public men, in accordance with the example of their
predecessors might attach importance to the preservation
of the integrity of Turkey without necessarily inferrie%
that they approved the system of internal Government in
Turkey. It the Noble Lord had brought forsvard .k,''
motion in a hostile manner ; if- he himself, had not 100
that he rather int reduced it jn order to procure from Ali'
couldni.te give
rssuchzconasnisteanntsi-ce,rvitalintdhesiurchdutyinfu;rmanadt information I
thought
a
he meant to press it to a division, I should feel under SO
necessity of at once opposing it ; but considering the
promise of the Crown at the earliest period to afford ill'
formation, I do not think there is any thing in the coin'
plicated relations of this country with regard to. Greece,
as they have existed during the last three years, to entitle
hloutgbhel;
1
this House so fir to withhold its confidence from the pre'
sent servants of the Crown. and to undertake to expreee
an opinion before it has obtained the information on whicb,
an opinion ought to he founded.—(Hear, hear.)---1
beg the House to recollect that when the present Govern'
insert (I mean tbeadminietration of the Duke of Welling'
ton) came into office, they found the Treaty of the 6511
July in existence ; the objects of that Treaty were nese°.
airily vague and itnperfect, but the intention of it was v/
apply an immediate remedy to an enormous evil affeetid
the interest* of every commercial country. Although of
were not the authors of that Treaty, yet, throughout 01
whole progress of its execution, we were- as desiroris 1°
fulfil its objects in the spirit of the Treaty as Mr. Cauniel
himself. What were the facts? Shortly eter 'the aece
sion of the Duke of Wellington to power, one of the parti#
to the Treaty found herself, on grounds quite •extritteici
involved in a aver with Turkey. Against the right ei,
Russia to enter into that war we did not protest, but le"
her to pursue the line of policy she deemed it right to tak°'
It has been said that my Noble Friend at the head of time
Cabinet, and the Government generally, were in some re:
spects responsible for the precipitation and rashness iriiP
which Turkey commenced hostilities, and for the obstinad,
with which she persevered in them ; it was also rontetelee
that we were deceived as to the result, and thought thes
Turkey could maintain a successful resistance. The me°
charge against us however, ha:, been, that Turkey was i°
some way improperly induced to place reliance on she
friendship and good will of Great Britain,' partieulao7
after shelhad been termed in the Speech from the Throne'
our " Ancient Ally," and that in consequence of that re'
Hulce; the -wad lid -to embroil hersellin war. 'Now,
simple reference to a few dates, without - entering into 07
argument; will totally disprove this charge: • I vindicel i
not only the Government of the Duke of Wellington, be I
that of Lord Goderich, from the imputation of- hall,
tweeted an impression on the part of Turkey, thatshe inig',!
rely upon the assistance of England, either • directly or il'o'
directly. It so happens that the battle of Navarin ire
fought on the 20th October, 1827, 'airl the actonntof '
reached Constantinople on the Ist November folkiwing
The Ambassadors of the Allied Powers, and the Minister *."(
Englentt as one of those Powers, in consequence of the,' 1
total dissatisfaction with the assurances given by Turkel'
left Constantinople about tire 20th December, -1827. ,To
key had, therefore, at that time, first, the proof that End
land had taken her share in the battle of Navarin ; e
next, the proof that England was displeased with 1
course she had taken by the departure of her Ambaetrade
from the capital. It was on the very day that the Brit)",
Aerbastador left Constantinople that the Porte was infave
ated enough to issue that document, which is called,e
Hat ti-scherriff, and which was the immediate cause 9f:vros •
war. It was issued on the 20th December, and it de
not until the 3d January that my Noble Friend was riot
Prinw Minister. When he was so appointed,..it wse Pr,
known that the Hatti-scheriff had been published:by lu 0
key, nor did that fact transpire until after she had. heel
dt sign4ted in the King's Speech the "ancient ally? of till
country. These facts show that it was impossible that amid
foolish reliance on the friendship and assistance of Englenw
could have induced Turkey to enter into the war ,st
Russia ; for that war Turkey is alone responsible, and l'
her pars - verance..in ~
it she is also alone responsible ;
both cases she acted not only without the eneotiregemeol
but directly against the advice and remonstrances of Groj
Britain.—( Hear, hear. )--;-Still it way lie said; %het attboeFt
she entered into that war ..upon the ectrosistenttion of 5
own case, mind without any inch, .reliance upon .pro
Britain, still it should have been the inellieY rt( '''
, ~
Government to interfere actively t prevent;the at
_,, ,
trous issue of the war. Here 1 must say, al bat
4 beet/ laraly snide this babes gAglitati if imdr
-.-

btaining

njoy.
I will be

ens,ion ;
de L'ird
of the
will not

that his
cation on

the allied

rg,t poiut
Fatis'ac-

;entent,4,
who are
he Noble
:rary,
arehy to
le in the
:anent of

e pres.o

inn, err-

dieve or&
fcre Wish
ulated to
Greece.
•epg to the

ithout an

a' the
22,E of
Lord I c—
ptiblic;ty
,f Greece,
s'thet the
him those
is not the

'enture to

w in prof!eurity o
than that
v.) The
nnipensa-
he found
t must be
into the
as in her

.tice: he,
capable of
me to at-
itation of
oplated•—•
than the
all thole
grate
,ier will in

ice. But

ince, pre..
of the 6th
We hope
hied also,
this nevl
-est in its

ources are
tee of itt
he anxiety
rut key, it