The Sun.
London, England, 1837-04-15 00:00:00

served the working of the Spanish system of centralization in
South America and the degradation and misery which it produced.
In South America there was plenty of nominal responsibility ;
hut the real responsibility was only at Madrid; and what was
the consequence ? Why, that all were dissatisfied, and that,
on the first favourable moment, the whole dominion of Spain
crumbled away, and not a trace of kindly feeling remained
t
OlNards the mother country. Ile trusted that this never would
~he the case with Great Britain and her colonies, and there-
lose it was that he entreated the Government to pause before
theythe pressed resolutions which were contrary to the wishes of
country.
Mr. ROBINSON expressed his regret that the whole of
the... 'resolutions had not been passed on the former occasion.
lie was opposed to the delay, and he was convinced that no
division in a House so thin as that would be satisfactory to the
Canadian
people. With respect to the course taken by the
'lon. Member for Bath, he hoped he would be permitted to
!ay 4 few words. That Hon. Gentleman, instead of consider-
l°g the resolutions, thought fit to come down with a project of
Own. He assumed to speak the sentiments of the whole
of
athe people of North America, but lie (Mr. Robinson) must
enY that he was justified in the tone which he had assumed,
that he did speak the sentiments of the great bulk of the
People of that country. The Hon. Member said that the
People of North Americ.a we democratic, or favourably dis_
Posed to democratic institutions: but this he (Mr. Robinson)
thereutterly denied.—( Hear.) It was true that a party existed
that who were strongly imbued with democratic feelings, but
his Majesty's subjects in Nova Scotia, New Brunswick,
t-1/" Prince Edward's Island, participated in such feelings, he
,00k upon himself flatly to contradict.—( Hear.) His Majes-
ty's subjects in North America, lie had every reason to believe,
here perfectly satisfied with the Constitution under which they msfel. and although there might be minor points of dif•-
•eace. they would not consent to alter that Con-
Zt,uti°n, or imitate the example of the Lower Canadians.
sa hat authority had the Hon, and Learned Gentleman for
sjing that his Majesty's subjects in New Brunswick, in
‘c)sa• Scotia, and in Prince Edward's Island, were discon-
Anted ? So far from this being the case, he could assure the
ta: and Learned Gentleman that they had no desire to be
ortese to any such arrangements. In answer to the observe-
e' of the Hon. Member for St. Alban's, with respect to the
e9nsequenees of misgovernment in the South American colo-
hi•es of Spain, he could tell him that there was no instance in
ini'terY of so rapid an advance in wealth, in p.opulation, and
was as in the British provinces of America. After all,
Pose
ties,ne in Lower Canada such as to form a suffi-
P:let,,ground to make such important alterations as those pro-
sp`', hY the Member for Bath ? It was a great error to
ps-syri` that discontent was general throughout the American
ssro°.inees. What was passing in Upper Canada ? That
duatlicilaPPear, not from the Assembly. opinion of an indivi-
o, , est from the House of itself. In their address
6eY used these words :—" Your ',Majesty's subjects fu Upper
thn'a recognize no protection but that of the laws and
QrfConstitution, and no superiority but that of the pow-
attsuisen"pire to which they are proud to bFlong. They are
stit'aetujoed to the mother country, to then King and the Con-
e, ,„ n, and cannot allow a doubt to enter their minds as to
toe,si'errnanence of the Union." He had lately read an address
nuasi":4 same purpose from Nova Scotia, and he was well ac-
th,„ `,_ed with Prince Edward's Island. In these provinces,
tie' some minor differences might exist, they had no desire
er to ,
State alter the Government, or to separate from tl:e parent
eith`l, The Hon. Member for Bath was at least consistent
I.es;s"iirciself, for while Lower Canada desired an elective
it "Lative Council, the Hon. and Learned Genticm in thought
five ma Council,
little importance whether there was any Legisla-
po:,‘-ouncil at all, and desired only one Assembly. He pro-
sst;s' Only a Governor and Council, to which Bills should be
sh;rred from the House of Assembly. He saw, however, the
key that must arise from this state of things, and, by
As): et. remedy, said, let the Bills be sent from the House of
he :114Y to the Governor in Council, and nothing more would
therssary but the consent of the Sovereign. To this Council.
to, but riot
and Learned Gentleman gave the power of assenting
h tiot of rejecting the Bills of the Assembly. They
Asg t dissent, indeed, and send them back to the House of
eiths:1:1111Y, after which the Governor would have the power
tofar to reject or to accept them. This was somewhat s_imi-
iturte proposition so often made of late, to a;ter t e Cdon-
Pos-st" of the Ilouse of Lords, by giving to it a mere. is-
Co -n.g Power. This was a miserable tampering with the
t)t, itstitution, either at home or abroad. He had no means
NdanTing how far the Legislative Council of Lower Ca-
in or not from the views entertained by a party
ethat colon • but when the Hon. Member for Bath called
there a set 3 of hungry officials, he could tell him that
r 're were son shat Council who, so far as regarded
heosPeetability and property, would not consider themselves
14°4red by a comparison with some Members of that
p:,tsae• It was impossible to deny the great im-
uo sPee of the question now before the House. There was
ellection, so far as he could discover, to give an indecen-
t " eontroul over the Council ; but it was quite another thing
I,°,ll.llake them the mere instruments of the popular will. He
sVed that Lord Gosford and the present Council were sin-
e, er;elY desirous to remedy every practical grievance ; but what
11;,4''e Could they pursue to effect so desirable an object when
srninse of Assembly declared that they Dever would meet
on until such time as what they called their grievances
Liald be redressed ? He had no hesitation in saying that, in
°Pinion, the House of Assembly ought to have controls'
e, the revenues of the waste lands. But they did not limit
t}:ecr4 selves to this. They claimed the right of disposing of
,
It ,„,',andss and denied the right of the Crown to alienate them.
ti)'' only now, for the first time, after a lapse of fifty years
weptthis claim was set up. In the year 1796, the 'King
Grohs message to Parliament, claiming the right of the
tNitll to dispose of the waste land, which claim was as-
'l'll,'" to. Why did not the Canadians remonstrate then ?
pit reason was that the demands they now set up had
eeeurred to them. The French Canadians now re-
tie, atrated, because they saw that a large British copula-
teir '''as daily thrown upon the country, and this excited
stbe Isjses4,l°llBY. They saw that, under the happy influence of
'istas'4 Company, British settlers were likely, at no very
to ti;' Period, to outnumber themselves. He would put it
Aleinei, 11°11. Member for London (Mr. Grote), or the Hon.
the Firer for Bath, whether that was not the fact ? Did not
they r„eneh Party do all in their power to prevent it ? Did
throw, of impose a tax on these emigrants ? Did they not
the Ha'l possible obstacles in their way ? He admitted, with
'xtrem,". Member for St. Alban's, that nothing short of an
revme necessity could justify that House in disposing of the
'stie's-41,ea of Lower Canada The Hon. Member for St. Al-
°4ly ,:ad said that the refu. sal to grant the supplies was the
the means of resistance left them. This he admitted, but not
Porvel;'erenee the Member would draw from it. This
tiq a- was certain] given to them for defensive purposes, but
thwars•a means of makingY war upon the mother country, and
what tell:gh till her measures for the good of the colony. Under
itade4s-"':)ritY did the House of Assembly stop the supplies ?
cad, aa authority given to them by the Government of Eng_sßislal.' under the mother country, France, they bad no
Ning prisilees whatever. This power they were now
144111.°r the purpose of effecting political changes. They
fh °htai,l'eY would
„ , not grant the supplies until such time as they
11 4" ele C When this subject was last before
et, c ive ounci .
5"a3.110-",l3e,he asked an Hon. Member how he could vote in the
sst upon the question. " Because," said he, " I could
11thsso' °nye! the difficulty of voting away the people's money
•kt • lets consent." He (Mr. Robinson) said in answer
forth in tlhat case, they •
Pada ase, tney did not impose a tax upon the people,
the Inone they disposed of had been already raised,
G„„nh
s_ ent of salariesOilynot°f the
salar liana should have kept her public officers without.
the Y for four years ? He could not envy the feelings
Told ders!'_aa who, under such embarrassing circumstances,
Lae lion gnats these officers as hungry and howling officials.
l and C° Member for Bath said the shares of the Canada
se vets Company were now at a discount, and that they would
;cl,lentoil4,:i.i..to get rid of them. That Company had no oc-
st , sod ; it rested on an Act of Parliament and a char-
aals 'eh' title stood on the same basis as others did. If
or;ai'iti ou'd shake the foundation of all similar colonial
cla andes the It had conferred more advantages, both on Ca-
ed no mother country, than any that ever' was este-
'. ule Lord suPPorted all the resolutions proposed by the
(atiee had. Russell), because all other means of conci-
tTneiliation, oeorl,exhausted—because Canada did riot desire
Rr''r country. lhet effect, declared war agair.stt iermbon-
liZea,,,i, and they
who Member fore the concessions they now sought.
nfo
'eowas at once an end to the connectio • The
NS7C,4 every colon r "It• Alban's observed that a time must come
Dia•:n that tin;e. Would separate from the mother country.
ajt least with rived, he hoped the separation would take.
that° • • mutual feelings of kindness and good will.
ti01:114'14 of
, the good sense of the people of Lower
s reach , mauced him to hope that when these resolu-
the List eo the
esult I'
thennls t would perceive the
.advantages tha.t
A.4)ritist, p_,. from submission to the British Crown and
Jr. GR&iir,liament.
Bsaatlhi. lE—The Hon. Gentleman who spoke last ex-
ons regret that Government had delayed these resolu-
tht 8° long as they had. He took quite a different view of
thiase.iretimstaLiee
c.fr 41Pg that and, on the contrary, rejoiced at the delay,
ititioere,ewio,
someki overnment would there6y have an opportunity
ssak 's,
regretted
of the most prominent points in these reso-
i,: greater alteegrraettitoends. much that they were not induced to
One would suppose, from the lan-
Per'e °f the.Ne ob. le Lord (Lord J. Russell), that be did not
Peocelive the
toor:r of Canada, and went to deprive them of all chance of
This
to himself for
for the time to come. The Noble Lord took
Aresolution did more,
not repealing the Act of William IV.
witholutmzree,nfor it disposed of the whole revenued
na
%Nitre Maxims on which consent of of the people, and subverted
Government had beers always
t,,hat he:e,4 to rest. The lion. Member who spoke last said
."Isattieje-sAelo.en;o.l.let.mber for Bat proposed an entirely new plan.
4 hada,
andr lu one embraced new system of government for
',,,preer pcsin the Hon. Member for Bath was therefore justified
hl eLe g 1.1 substitute.
.1-le proposed a means of controul
Cou.ncil, and gave the House of Assem-
11,krote,, vote and dispose of the revenue. In his (Mr.
,)e opinion the proposal of the House of Assembly
itsi!,:ha'a,°6,,..c,ceded to. First, as to the Legislative Council,
Cleet the much less of argument upon that branch of the
cidware his't whp the Hon. Member for Bridgewater brought
The Noble Lord did not show any de-
tihn
teeedii°ollll.e ei‘tilleount:°tona change in the Council, as proposed by
pie rested m teirer fstr Bath. There were only two parties
t,f f' this
co e subject—the people of Canada and the peo-
th4l. arqdoo.llntrY• The Hon. Member who spoke last spoke
by to the House of Lords. He did not entertain
ti aasVetlioptiinion of that Assembly ; but he would not de-
ay.e Council
_sse of Lords by a ccmparison with the Legisla-
tromse_ Ur Canada. The Members of the Council bore
's; an Canada.
to Aldermen for life in the old corporations
4tternwn
put
.wass abandoned two years back without an
defers"
regard to what had been said in

relation to the question of the separate nationality of the p-o-
-ple of Canada, in alluding to which an Hon. Member had
urged that a Legislative Council was necessary for the pro-
tection of the minority, lie (Mr. Grote) would reply to such
an argument that that Assembly was not the representative of
a part of the people of Canada, but of the whole population.
The Lords Commissioners said that the Legislative Council
was necessary because the population was not homogeneous.
Now he ( Mr. Grote) had been unable to discover any satisfactory
evidence of the mutual antipathy and repugnance which was
stated to exist between the English and French portions of the
Canadian population.—( Hear.) He did not believe that it
existed on either side, and when he consulted the report of the
Commissioners, he not only found no evidence of it, but, he
was happy to say, he found the contrary.—( Hear.) He could
not see why the same principle as was now applied to Ireland
should not be applied to Canada. Why should not the English
and French flourish together under the common guardianship
of the same Government in Canada, when they had the power-
ful example of the English, Irish, and Scotch portions of the
British population doing so at home ?—( Hear.) For his own
part, he agreed with his Hon. Friend (the Member for Bath)
in considering that what he proposed was an improvement on
the demand made by the Canadian people. The lion. Member
for Worcester had stated that the Canadian people were demo-
cratically inclined, but he would say his statement was not at
all borne out, if he applied to it the test of their votes upon the
question of the law of primogeniture. With respect to the point
relating to the proposal of vesting the full amount of the Cana-
dian revenue in the House of Assembly, he considered it
one which the security of the colony demanded should be com-
plied with.—( Hear.) It was necessary to do something to
protect the local enactments of the colony ; but in these reso-
lutions he could foresee nothing but what would reduce them
to the necessity of resorting to a mere superiority of force to
govern Canada. —( Hear.) He wished to see the dispute be-
tween the two parties brought to a conclusion. He wished to
see it brought to an amicable conclusion.—( Ilear.) To such
conclusions of the dispute these resolutions, he was convinced,
were strongly opposed. The Hon. Member for Worcester
said that if concession to the demands of the Canadians were
granted, there would at once be an end of the colony. His
(Mr. Grote's) opinion was that quite the reverse would be the
result, and that the consequences apprehended by the Hon.
Gentleman would be much more likely to follow the adoption
of the course which he he ( Mr. Robinson) advocated.—(Hear
and cheers.) It was not prudent of the Hon. Gentleman to
put such ideas into the minds of the people of Canada.—
( Hear.) It was dangerous in the extreme to do so. With

respect to the question of waste lands he must frankly say that
on that point he disagreed with his Hon. and Learned Friend
the Member for Bath, as well as with the Hon. Member for
Worcester.—( Cheers. )
Mr. P. M. STE WA RT, after expressing his approbation
of the resolutions as far as they went, said that if, after the
decision which, on a former occasion, the House had come to
on the fourth of these resolutions, his Majesty's Government
had any doubt remaining on their minds as to the policy of
them, they might gather some comfort from the manner in
which they were met by those who were opposed to them.—
( Hear.) The Hon. and Learned Member for Bath opposed
them because, as he said, they went beyond the spirit of the
Constitution. Now he (Mr. Stewart) agreed with the Noble
Lord opposite (Stanley), who the other night expressed his
opinion that they did not go far enough.—( H. a.-.) It was
said that they had no right to meddle Is ith the privileges of the
Canadian people. But against such arguments the opinions of
Lord Brougham and Sir James Macintosh, as well as of Ed-
mund Burke, were arrayed. As to there being any analogy,
as had been attempted to be drawn, between the case of Ca-

nada and that of our dispute with America, he denied alto-
gether the similarity of the two cases. In the dispute
with America the mother country had almost the unanimous
voice of the American population against her, while here
she had only a fraction of a colony demanding a change in
the local system of Government contrary to the spirit of
any thing that existed in the British Constitution.--( Hear,
hear.) He was surprised, from the general tenor of the
evidence, that the Hon. and Learned Member for Bath should
have considered it necessary to have the report of the Com-
missioners printed, which consisted chiefly of the evidence
given by Monsieur Morin. It was said they wished to enlist
with America, but every one knew the terms on which Ame-
rica enlisted any of the countries that had been incorporated
with her. Let them only look to Louisana.—( Hear, hear.)
Language, laws, privileges, everything must give way to what
was American. The Hon. Gentleman, who was very imper-
fectly heard during his last observations, then said that he
could not do better than conclude them by reading to the
House an extract from Mr. Burke's address to the American
colonists, as that great man, so much the enemy of American
taxation, had been so frequently alluded to in the course of
the debate. Mr. Burke in that address said—" We view

the establishments of the English colonies on principles oili-
berty as that which is to render this kingdom venerable to
future ages. We hope and trust that no flattering and no
alarming circumstances shall permit you to listen to the se-
ductions of those who could alienate you from your de-
pendence on the Crown and Parliament of this kingdom.
That very liberty which you so justly prize above all things
originated here ; and it may be very doubtful whether
without being constantly fed from the original fountain, it can
he at all perpetuated or preserved in its native purity, and per-
fection, untried forms of Government, may, to unstable minds,
recommend themselves even by their novelty. But you will do
well to remember that England has been great and happy
under the present limited Monarchy (subsisting in more or less
vigour and purity) for several hundred years. None hut Eng-
land can communicate to you the benefits of such a Constitu-
tion. Those who have and who hold to that foundation of
common liberty, whether on this or on your side of the ocean,
we consider as the true, and the only true Englishmen. Those
who depart from it, whether here or there, are attainted, cor-
rupted in blood, and wholly fallen from their original rank and
value. They are the real rebels to the fair Constitution and
just supremacy of England."
Mr. LE ADE R reminded the Noble Lord who so much
desired to see an overwhelming majority in support of these
resolutions, and who expected that they would meet with that
degree of support from the House that all the Bills of Lord
North—all the measures which succeeded in exasperating the
American people in the last age—were equally carried by
overwhelming majorities. He maintained that the present
position of Canada tallied exactly with the former state of the
North American colonies under parallel circumstances, with
the most important addition, that the Canadians had at their
doors a very powerful enemy, well disposed to afford them
aid should they commence an active struggle to maintain their
independence. This was no more a party question. It was
a question whether or not the Canadas should be retained
under the dominion of the British Crown by such an admini-
stration of their affairs as would temper indulgence with firm-
ness. The propesition of the Hon. and Learned Member foi
Bath did seem to him (Mr. Leader) to be in an extraordinary
degree conciliatory, when the circumstances of aggravation
were considered. It seemed to him to be an excellent plan
for the pacification of Canada, in answer to which the Govern-
ment had nothing to offer but their resolutions, which were
alike objected to by their supporters and their opponents.
Too strong for conciliation, they were too weak for coercion ;
and, feeling as he (lid that it was useless to ask the Govern-
mevt to reconsider them, all that he could do was solemnly to
enter his protest against them.
Colonel L. PARRY could not agree in the condemnation
which the Hon. Member who had just sat down had passed
on these resolutions ; on the contrary, he hoped that• the
people of Canada would see that they were really adapted to
the exigencies of the case, and would receive them, accord-
ingly, in the spirit of thankfulness. He confessed that he ex-
peefted this result, fur his long and intimate knowledge of the
people led him to• believe that there were not in the whole
range of the dominions of Great Britain a more loyal and at-
tached people than the people of Canada, when allowed to
think for themselves. That they had had grievances was true;
but it was also true that the greater part of those grievances
had met with redress ; and as for any that might remain it was
quite evident, from the tenour of the fourth of these resolu-
tions, that it was the determination of the Government to
afford them every rational and safe means of alleviation.
Mr. C. BU LLER felt regret at prolonging the discussion,
because it seemed to him that the longer it was protracted it
was conducted with the worse temper.—( Hear, hear.) By
temper lie meant the spirit in which the House approached
the question, and he certainly thought that they were legis-
lating upon this question in ignorance, in passion, and in in-
difference—( Hear, hear)—in a national and perfectly excusa-
ble indifference, arising from ignorance, and in ignorance that
very naturally fomented arid excited passion.—( Hear, hear. )
To this he himself pleaded to be as guilty as any Member in
that House could be, fur it was but within the last three or
four days that he had seriously and sedulously applied himself
to the consideration of this question, and he now felt that he
would be incurring a very heavy responsibility if he gave the
assent of silence to these resolutions, as he had already given
the silent assent of absence. Upon his Majesty's Ministers
would rest all the awful responsibility of precipitate mea-
sures; for they were, or ought to be, in full possession of the
necessary details. They were morally responsible for the
present resolutions and their results ; but he was glad that he
was addressing himself to Ministers who had a character to
maintain in the country—who had already shown themselves
amenable to the opinions of the people, and had had the mag-
nanimity, on more than one occasion, to retract their errors.—
( Hear, bear.) It appeared to him, however, that the conduct
now proposed to be pursued by Ministers was not merely a re-
petition, but a servile imitation, of the blunders of a former
age ; and he was bound to say that principle, which came
with consistency from the Grenvilles and the Norths, came
with a very bad grace from the political successors of those
whose whole senatorial career had been a defence of the rights
of the colonists of North America. The " gagging" Acts
and the Irish Coercion Bill were nothing to the present
proposition.----( Hear.) Here a blow was aimed at the consti-
tutional rights of a whole population—at the very root of the
principle of a representative Government ; and the result
would be that confidence would no longer be placed in those
who could inflict that blow. The present proposition, in fact,
was the first instance since the American war of a❑ excep-
tional measure against the rights of a whole country. And
these resolutions were useless to effect what would seem to
be their ultimate object—the utter abrogation of the repre-
sentative rights of the Canadians. Why leave the Canadians
the form of representation if you coerce their representatives
in the exercise of their functions? All would at least agree
that before coercive measures were resorted to, conciliation
should first be tried. But this had not been done. The
ground of dispute was really very simple. It rested entirely
on what should be the Constitution of the Legislative Assem-
bly, for the question that had been passed as to the Executive
Council was entirely dependent on the other. Now, with re-
spect to this Legislative Council, it seemed quite clear that the
colony did not afford materials for an aristocracy, and, there-
, fore, not for a Legislative Council. The very Constitution of
the Legislative Council showed this, besides their admitting
the Judges as Members—a practice itself contrary to the

principle of our Constitution. The real aristocracy of Ca-
nada consisted in the transient Scotch and English mer-
chants. One of the most distinguished members of the class
of which the Horvards and the Russells were here the repre-
sentatives was an ironmonger—an individual eminent in ten-
penny nails ; another was a substantial pig merchant, eminent
in sausages, and great in curing hams.—( A laugh.) This
being so, it did seem to him (Mr. C. Buller) that the Legis-
lative Council might be altered without affecting the dignity,
or shaking the foundation of the House of Lords in this coun-
try..—(Hear.) It seemed to him (Mr. C. Buller) that the
proposition of the Noble Lord was an act of violence to the
Constitution!of the country. He called on the House, in the
absence of any explanation of the motives of the Noble Lord
for refusing to state his reasons for opposing the proposition of
the Hon. and Learned Member for Bath, not rashly to enter
into a course of violence, of which they could not know the
end.—( Hear. )

Mr. 'ROEBUCK must admit that, as far as the language
and manner of the Noble Lord—as far as blandness of tone
and conciliatory outward bearing—could go, the Canadian
people could have no reason to complain. But there was in
reality the same deep-seated motive of injury to the Canadian
people of which they had so long complained. It had been
said by an Honourable Member opposite, that all the pre-
sent flame in Canada had been caused by firebrands in this
country. What could he (Mr. Roebuck) gain by raising a
flame in Canada ?—( Hear, hear.) All his interests lay in
the opposite direction—in maintaining amicable relations
between this country and the Canadians.—( Hear, hear.)
The Noble Lord was supported in the present resolutions by
the opponents of the Government, but they will leave to him
all the shame while they step into office upon his disgrace as a
Minister. Such resolutions as those proposed by the Noble
Lord had never been sanctioned since the days of Lord North,
a worthy precursor of the Noble Lord. Now, he would ask
the Noble Lord what benefit he expected to derive from
carrying such resolutions ? He might succeed in paying the
Judges and other official persons their salaries for 12 months,
but this would only tend to make the evil more lasting. It
would destroy the character of the Administration, and create
in the colonists a fixed determination to separate from the mo-
ther country. When those resolutions should be received in
Canada there would be meetings throughout the whole
country, and a determination come to to establish a non-inter-
course system with this country. The standard of revolt
would be raised, and in one day ten thousand American
rifles would join the Canadians. If the Noble Lord would

insult and vilify the people of Canada, supported in such;
course by the Honourable Gentleman opposite, how could he
hope or call for the support of the Radicals ? He did not
know what the exact feelings of the Right Hon. Baronet
opposite (Sir IL Peel) were, with reference to this question,
but he did think that the Right Honourable Baronet had
too much prudence to carry out or propose such resolutions as
those now before the House. No, the Right Hon. Baronet
and his party wished to come into office with clean hands.
—( Cheers.) He really thought that the Radicals could get
more from the opposite party than they could from the present
Administration. They certainly could not get less. It was
very strange that the Noble Lord could carry nothing for Ire-
land with the aid of the Opposition benches, but he could carry
everything against Canada. For his own part, he felt that
the sooner they gave up the support of the Government the
better.—( Cheers.) He did not mean to give up the Govern-
ment until they gave themselves up.—( Cheers.) It would be
better to take away the Constitution of Canada altogether,
than insult them by the present resolutions. The Hon. and
Learned Member here read an extract from Burke, which re-
commended a mild system of Government towards Canada.
The Noble Lord would not accept the plan which he (Mr.
Roebuck) had recommended, because it would wound his
vanity to do so; but the Noble Lord should recollect that lie

(Mr. Roebuck) represented the people of Canada, and he
would tell that House, that the great body of the people of
Canada were opposed to the Legislative Council.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that it was his disposition and
wish to speak of the people of Canada with moderation, and
he should not be diverted from that course by the threat of
the Honourable and Learned Gentleman. The case of Ca-
nada was this :—The Assembly of Lower Canada asked for a
Legislative Council, responsible to them, and not to the
Crown of Great Britain as at present. We say it would be
better to separate at once than to admit this, and many of the
colonists think the same. But the Hoe. and Learned Gentle-
man had held out two threats ; the first was, that if the pre-
sent resolutions were passed a revolt in Canada would be the
consequence ; and the second threat was, that the Hon.
Gentleman, and those who acted with him, would with-
draw their support from the Government. Now he (Lord J.
Russell) did not fear either of those threats.—(Cheers.) He
did not fear any revolt in Canada, and his duty to his Sove-
reign would not permit him fur one moment to hesitate about
proposing any measure which he thought would be for the
advantage of the country, because of any fear of losing the
support of the Hon. Gentleman or his party.—( Cheers.)
As to the propositions of the Hon. and Learned Gentle-
man, it would be quite out of his (Lord J. Russell's) power,
if he even approved of them, to adopt those propositions,
after the House had already conic to a vote in favour of the
resolutions now under discussion. When the present resolu-
tions, and the Bill founded upon them, should reach Canada,
he had no doubt that the House of Assembly would not per-
sist in the course they had at first adopted; and if there was
any matter open to accommodation he was quite sure that Par-
liament would not refuse to considar it ; but the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman greatly deceived himself if he supposed
that any threat or menace would induce the Government to
withhold its support to those measures which they deemed ne-
cessary for the good government of any portion of the British
empire.
Sir R. PEEL said that he was very desirous of explaining
the view which he took of the present question and the vote
which he intended to give upon it. The Hon. and Learned
Gentleman opposite never was more mistaken than when he
attributed his (Sir R. Peel's) observations on the present re-
solutions to a wish to embarrass the Government. It was not
because lie concurred in the views of the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman that he disapproved in sonic degree of the resolu-
tions before the House, but because he agreed with his Noble
Friend near him (Lord Stanley), that those resolutions might
not be sufficiently effective. He should, however, vote for
' them, although he dissented from their sufficiency, because he
thought that upon an occasion like this unanimity counter-
, balanced any evils that might be expected to arise from the
resolutions themselves.—( Cheers.) The lion. and Learned
Gentleman had proposed a plan of his own, but he (Sir R.
Peel) had two reasons for dissenting from that plan. The
first reason was, that the plan of the lion. Member was to-
tally at variance with the view of the Legislative Assembly of
Lower Canada; and the second reason was, that the proposi-
tion was a most absurd scheme of Government. The lion. i
and Learned Gentleman wished to have it established that the
Governor should have no veto upon Bills passed by the House
of Assembly. But would not this be establishing a sort of
democracy, mixed with a monarchical form of Government ?
This was inconsistent with the views of the colonists them-
selves. He contended that the Hon. and Learned Gentleman
was no authority as representing the real feelings and opinions
of the people of Canada, expressed through the House of As-
sembly. In the second instance, lie contended that it was ab-
surd to suppose that a simple veto could give satisfaction.
Now, with respect to the resolutions themselves, let the state
of Canada be looked at for the last five years, when it would
be seen that the Judges and other public servants were unpaid
for a great portion of that time.—( Hear, hear.) He (Sir
Robert Peel) believed that the Canadian people were, as Mr.
James Tent had in his work described them, an excellent and
loyal people. He believed, however, that they were also
easily deceived and ltd away by false representations, and if
the Canadian people, living as they did on the confines of the
United States, wished to be a separate community, uncon-
nected with any other country—if no other interests were in.
volved in the question, and if there were no considerations
connected with their local position—lie should not hesitate to
say to them—if British connection is not palatable to you, God
forbid that we should force it upon you. —( Hear.) Seek a con-
nection with the United States, or some other country, and if
you do not form that connection, then be prepared to defend
yourselves.—( Hear.) But he greatly doubted whether, if it
came to that point, the Canadians would be anxious for separa-
tion. But, as he said before, the question could not be raised
with reference to the French Canadians. There was a British
population in that country which had a right to look to British
connection, and if these demands were conceded, upon what
pretext could they refuse the application of the same principle
to Upper Canada, New Brunswick, or any other of their colo-
nies ?—( Hear.) They were bound to regard this question, not
as a French Canadian question, but as one affecting the peace
and security of all their colonial possessions. The question was,
whether judges and other public functionaries in the service of
his Majesty should be deprived of remuneration for their ser-
vices ? In his (Sir R. Peel's) opinion, there was nothing more
calculated to bring those offices into contempt, or nothing
more disgraceful to England, than that the Judges and other
persons in the employ of the King of England should be re-
duced to a state of poverty, and for the space of four years
deprived of the emoluments to which they were justly entitled.
No one could deny but they were entitled to remuneration.
The only alternative then was that England should provide
that remuneration.—( Hear, hear.) At the same time he must
say that this country would never consent to make a perma-
nent provision for the payment of persons whose services were
given for the benefit of the people of Canada. The only al-
ternative then was for Parliament to declare that this provision
must be made from Colonial revenues, and in furtherance of

that view to suspend the Acts of 1 and 2W. IV. He agreed
with the Noble Lord that they should not be betrayed into any
act which would place the superior power in the wrong ; but
as these Acts had heel so recently passed, and as such a strong
necessity existed for their suspension, it could not be said that
such a step was an invasion of the ancient Constitutional pri-
vileges of the Canadians. He suggested as an amicable com-
promise the suspension, instead of the temporary repeal, of
those Acts. The other amendment had reference to the Le-
gislative Council. The resolution stated that in the present
excited state of Lower Canada it was inexpedient to make the
Legislative Council elective. Now he (Sir Robert Peel)
thought an elective Council a bad system of Colonial govern-
ment. He voted for the resolutions because he thought Par-
liament had a right to interpose its authority to provide pay-
ment for the King's servants in that Colony.--( Loud cheers.)
Mr. ROEBUCK, in explanation, begged to say that the
Canadians entertained a strong feeling of gratitude towards
England, and there was every desire on their part to preserve
the connection between the two countries.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. L A BOUCH ER E had never advocated the principle
of an elective Legislative Council. He thought it a bad and
dangerous form of Government.—( Hear, hear.)
The Committee then divided, when there appeared—
For the resolution
Against it
Majority
On cur return to the gallery we found Mr. Roebuck op-
posing another resolution; but the few words he uttered were