The Sun.
London, England, 1837-03-11 00:00:00

atteeept to continue their privileges—it may he quite right
that the Right Hon. President of the Board of Trade should
enlighten them on the subject of free trade—but if they do en-
tertain those prejudices, and do not fall in with our views, of
what use is it our attempting to force them upon them by ar-
tillery and armed men? If Spain is now divided between
two parties, one of whom is utterly contemptible in numbers,
and confined to a few square leagues of occupation ground,
why has not Spain long since delivered herself from intestine
dissensions by the exertion of her own energies ?—( Hear,
hear.) If the Carlist party, I say, are not fairly to be
balanced against their opponents—if they are to be looked on
as something iu the nature of a nuisance, why does not Spain
—if, as the Noble Lord asserts, the great and populous towns
and the large landed proprietors are favourable to the Christino
party—why do not the ten millions arise and crush the fifty
thousand—the nuisance ? My Hon. Friend asks how it is
that, when the numbers are only thirty thousand, there
should be nee less a return of killed than three hundred
and eighteen thousand. I will tell him why it was—because
precisely 318,000 muskets were furnished by this country
to the Spanish Government, and they thought it was only a
decent compliment to allow us a death to each musket.—
( Hear, and a laugh.) But if, on the other hand, there are
two parties, so equally balanced that the one cannot overcome
the other without the assistance of Great Britain and France,
then I say that the past history of Spain leads me to entertain
an apprehension that, although you may succeed in establish-
, ing for the present a temporary peace by your moral aid and
your joint physical exertion—although you may sweep from
Navarre and Biscay the irregular forces that now possess them
—yet that, the Government which must succeed being neces-
sarily founded on this intervention of foreign bayonet., will
not give such a security for liberty and order as you would have
• had if you had permitted these persons to rely on their own
energies, and not derive a false confidence from your inter-
ference.—(The Right Hon. Baronet sat down amidst loud
cheers. )
Mr. O'CONNELL said that the debate had wandered much
from the speech with which it had commenced. The Right
Hon. Baronet had shown a characteristic talent and caution.
He had risen to repudiate the charge made against his
party, of never taking the part of Constitutional Govern-
ments, but he had sat down without rebutting that charge.
He had certainly disclaimed all countenance of Don Car-
ies, but this was not the first time by many that he had
done so ; and here was a singular discrepancy between
the speech of the Right Hon. Baronet and that of the
Hon. Member for Sandwich and the Noble Lord who
opened the discussion. While they were the staanch friends
of Don Carlos, the Right Hon. Baronet entirely threw him
overboard. The Hon. Member for Sandwich did not disguise
his attachment to Don Carlos.—(" Hear," from Mr. Grove
Price.) The Hon. Gentleman cheered. He (Mr. O'Connell)
believed that his support arose out of a purely platonic passion
for despotism. The Right Hon. Baronet had made no answer
to the statement of the Noble Lord of the exertions of the
Government on behalf of the general liberty of Europe. The
case of Belgium had been cited; but the Right Hon. Baronet
had given no answer. To the revolution there he had been an
enemy, yet it had gone on and prospered. Then the case of
Portugal was cited ; but the Right Hon. Baronet had not of-
fered one word on the subject of the advocacy of liberal prin-
ciples there by the present Government. No ; the Tory party
were not among the friends of Don Miguel, and the Liberals
of Portugal had been established and' supported by the present
Government. Tire Right Honourable Baronet was not
himself a Carlist in fact, but his supporters were. But,
after all, what were they to do ? It must be a matter of great
regret to every one that the people of Spain had resorted
to revolution—they must all lament the present unfortunate
state of Spain, and, therefore, they should all combine in de-
ploring the outrages committed in that country—outrages that
were shocking to humanity. The Hon. Member for Sandwich
had pronounced a sweeping condemnation on the cruelties per-
petrated by the Christinos, but he had altogether forgotten
that the Carlists had also been guilty of cruelties. He had
dwelt on the murders and massacres at Barcelona—he had
spoken with just indignation of the conduct of Mina—but he
had not said one word of those who attacked a neighbouring
fort, hurled the garrison over the walls, and shot them to death.
Now, who were they who did this? Why men who were en-
thusiastic for Don Carlos ?—( Hear.) It was, no doubt, per-
fectly true that Mina, to his eternal shame be it spoken, mur-
dered the mother of Cabrera. This, no doubt, was most hor-
rible, but then what did Cabrera do ? Why, in revenge for the
massacre of his mother, he wantonly massacred 30 defenceless
women, and thereby proved, that although the deed which Mina
committed must ever render his memory infamous, yet that Ca-
brera's mother produced a monster thirty times more cruel
even than Mina. The Hon. Gentleman quoted a passage from
Captain Henningsen's book ; and he (Mr. O'Connell) should
quote another. Captain Henningsen stated that Zumalacar-
regui was marching with a great number of prisoners, when
night came on. It was represented to him, that if he conti-
nued his march, the prisoners would be able, in the dark, to
effect their escape. Well, what was his answer ? Why it
was, " Oh, if you think so, shoot them." It was replied to
him that, if this were done, they would alarm the Christinos,
who were in the neighbourhood, by the noise ; and what did
he then do ? Why, he ordered them to be put to death with
the bayonet, and he himself, the monster Zumalacarregui, stood
by and saw a whole column of prisoners put to death in this way,
ever gloating on the innocent blood which he caused to be spilled.
This was the man for whom so many tears had been shed.
The speech of the Noble Lord disavowed all advocacy of
either party ; but still he (Mr. O'Connell) thought he could
perceive something like an air of protection to the Carlists
about it. He did not blame the Noble Lord for this ; but he
- did blame those who were so enthusiastic as the Hon. Gentle-
man opposite in the praise of men who had perpretrated atro-
cities of the description which he had mentioned. As so much
had been said against the Christinos, he must quote another
statement given by Captain Henningsen. A young Christino
officer had been taken prisoner by Zumalacarregui. His fe-
male relatives begged that he might be respited until they
could see Don Carlos, to obtain a pardon for him, Zumala-
carregui consented to this, entertained the young officer with
great kindness and hospitality, and even went so far as to re-
commend him to mercy; but what was the result? Why,
that instead of a pardon, he got a peremptory order to put
the young man to death, and he was accordingly taken out
from the table, allowed a few moments' conversation with
a confessor, and then shot.—( Hear, hear, hear.) It was
not, he contended, the fault of the British Government, nei-
ther had the Hon. Baronet shown that it was they that had
failed to execute the treaty.—( Hear.) The legion, to be
sure, were thrown in by way of parenthesis, but he asserted
that it was not the fault of the Government that the treaty
had not been executed. Whose fault then was it ? Why, he
had no hesitation in saying it was the fault of the base conduct
of the accidental King of the French.—(Loud cries of " Hear,
hear,"from the Opposition benches.) Yes, he repeated, of
the accidental King of the French—( Cries of " Hear, hear")
—of a King who had no hereditary claim to the throne of
France, but who was the mere creature of a revolution brought
about by a denial of rights which, though bound to protect
and cherish, he had profaned.—(Cheers from the Opposition
beeches.) Yes, Louis Phillipe had trampled on the two prin-
ciples which had placed him upon the throne—the liberty of
the press and the freedom of the people of France. They
ought to speak of him, though he was not quite so bad as Don
Carlos, as a most despicable being—as one who had proved
himself to be treacherous to his friends, and, perhaps, useful
only to Isis enemies. He had not the manliness to deny the
treaty ; but that which he dared not do openly he did not he-
sitate to do secretly. Throughout Louis Philippe played
a double game—a game, however, that must be fatal to him-
self. As far as he was concerned no one could regret such a
result, although he (Mr. O'Connell) should be sorry to see it,
because the effect of it would be to convulse not only France,
but every other state throughout Europe. But it was said
that one of the parties was contending for liberty and the other
for religion. His belief was that both were degraded by
such a contest. The Hon. Member for Sandwich had stated
that he (Mr. O'Connell) was intimate with the Bishop of
Leon, the enemy of the Inquisition, and that he had visited
Don Carlos while he was in this country. Now he denied
this to he the fact.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. G. PRICE—I stated that it had been said that the
Honourable and Learned Member for Kilkenny had visited
Dun Carlos.

Mr. O'CONNELL had not only never visited, but he
had never even seen Don Carlos in the whole course of his
Hear, from the Ministerial benches.) It was true that
he had seen the Bishop of Leon. The Bishop of Leon wrote
to him, requesting that he would call on him ; but this he de-
clined to do, and then lie received a communication, stating
that the Bishop of Loon would call on him. The Bishop
of Leon accordingly did call on him, accompanied. by an
interpreter, a man who had but one fault, and that was,
that he could not understand either Spanish or English.
(Great laughter.) The Bishop himself was unacquainted with
French, and therefore addressed himself in a Latin harangue,
which, being pronounced with a Spanish accent, the only
words he could catch were " Religionem Catholicum."—
( Laughter.) The consequence was that he bundled both him
and the interpreter out as soon as he could, and did not re-
turn the visit, but it was returned by the Bishop himself—
( Loud laughter)—who called on him again, and treated him
to another Latin harangue, of which all he understood was
that he was speaking of the Catholic religion. Well, he got
rid of him as speedily on this as on the former occasion, and
this was the entire of the correspondence which he had had
with " the Court and Camp of Don Carlos." Now, he would
come to the Inquisition. It was said that the Bishop of Leon
had prevented Ferdinand from establishing the Inquisition in
Spain ; but what was the fact? Why, that not only did Fer-
dinand never give up the idea of restoring the Inquisition, but
he actually made application to no fewer than three Popes to
obtain the sanction of the Pope for that purpose. These applica.
tions were all refused ; and, as no ecclesiastic could belong to a
lay tribunal without the consent of the Pope—the Inquisition was
a lay tribunal—Ferdinand was unable to carry his desire into
effect.—( Hear.) Now here was a fact which ought to excite the
loud and fervent enthusiasm of the Hon. Gentlemen opposite,
for the Pope it was that had prevented the re-establishment of
the Inquisition in Spain.—( Hear, and laughter.) But Don
Carlow, it was said, was the friend of religion. Don Carlos
affected a love for Catholicism for political purposes, but
when that religion was employed to promote tyranny it WWI
supported by the Hon. Gentlemen opposite, yet when it was
used in the cause of liberty or in Ireland they opposed it.
The people of Ireland, like the inhabitants of the Biscayan
provinces, were Catholics. The Biscayans were contending,
like the people of Ireland, for their fiteres, their privileges;
but the one were deemed worthy of admiration and enthusias-
tic praise by the Hon. Gentlemen opposite, because, in doing
so they supported despotism, while the others were treated as
wholly undeserving, because their whole object was the attain-
ment of that liberty which a free people ought to possess.--
( Hear.) He now came to the pretended title of Don Carlos
to the Throne. He had considered this claim maturely,
and he had no hesitation in asserting that no claim
could possibly be more unfounded.—( Cries of " Hear.")