The Sun.
London, England, 1863-07-01 00:00:00

RUSSIA AND POLAND.

Mr. HORSMAN gave notice that on Thursday next he
should ask whether the English Ambassador at St. Peters-
burg had been instructed to keep back the French and Eng-
lish notes until the arrival of the Austrian note, as alluded
to by him on a former evening.
RECOGNITION OF THE KING OF GREECE.

Colonel FRENCH asked how the new King of Greece
was to be recognised by his people—whether by suffrage or
in what other manner ?

Mr. FORTESCUE—I will answer that question on
Thursday.
DETENTION OF SUPPOSED CONFEDERATE
SUPPLIES AT LIVERPOOL.

Lord R. CECIL asked, with respect to the recent
seizure of two Blakeley guns on board the Gibraltar at
Liverpool, whether there would be any objection to lay
the correspondence on the subject before the house ?
The noble lord read a copy of a note from the shipping
agents, in which it was stated that the Government had
stopped the guns; but the Customs' officer had informed
them that if the guns had been for the Federal States no
objection would have been taken, as such shipments were

common.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said that letter ought to
be a warning to the house against paying attention to com-
munications of that kind. So far as the Government were
concerned there was not a particle of truth in thestatement,
nor could they believe that any officer of the port of Liver-
pool would have so wilfully misinterpreted his instructions.
The vessel called the Gibraltar had been the well-known
Sumter, the legality of the sale of which had never been re-
cognised by the Federal Government, and some inquiry bad
been thought necessary by the Government, but the guns
had subsequently been al'owed to proceed.
Lord H. CECIL—My question as to the production of
the papers has not been answered. (Hear, and order.)
THE JUDGES OF THE lONIAN ISLANDS.

In reply to Mr. MA.C4ULAX,
Mr. FORTESCUE said the despatches upon this subject
had not been recently produced, because they were already
before Parliament; and, upon the question of disroiBsal, re-
ferred the hon. and learned gentleman to Parliamentary
paper No 772, 1863.
AFFAIRS OF GREECE.

In reply to Mr. S. FITZGER&LD,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the

£4,000 which would come to England out of the £12,000
per annum surrendered by the new King of Greece would,
when received, go into the consolidated fund; but the mode
in which the surrender should be made was still under con-
sideration. He would reply further in a few days.
FEDERAL RECRUITING IN LEEDS.

In reply to Mr. FERRAND,
Sir G. GREY said he had not yet received the opinion
of the law officers of the Crown upon the report received
from the Mayor of Leeds upon this subject.
RECOGNITION OF THE SOUTHERN STATES.
Mr. ROEBUCK presented a petition, embodying the re-
solutions passed unanimously at a meeting of 20,000 persons
held at Oldham a few days since, calling upon the house to
pray her Majesty to enter into nertiations with the great
Powers of Europe, with a view to effecting a recognition of
the Southern States. (Hear.)
The petition was ordered to lie upon the table.
house,
Mr. ROEBUCK then, in a veryY
full and attentive
rose to make the motion of which he had given notice, and
spoke as follows—Sir, I well know the importance and the
gravity of the question I am about to bring before the house,
and I well know also the sort of obloquy to which I subject
myself by so doing. lam aware that those persons who op-
pose me deem themselves the " salt of the earth," and that
every opinion of theirs ought to be the opinion of other men,
and that all other men ought to bow down to them. But,
in despite of that obloquy, and believing that the course I am
about to take is in the interest of my country, 1 now make
my appeal to this house, to its honour and to its good feel-
ing, to do that which I am about to ask of them, namely,
to solicit the Crown to enter into negotiations with the
great Powers of Europe for the purpose of acknowledging
the independence of the Southern States of America. Now,
Sir, before I do this, and before I state the argument in my
mind upon this matter, I must ask to be permitted to lay
before the house a very short history, which I deem im-
portant and necessary for the full understanding of ray pro-
position. Not that I suppose any gentleman in this house
is ignorant of what I am about to state, but in order to
make my argument complete I must lay this down. Sir,
about two centuries and a half ago England prepared to co- I
lonise the then newly-dicovered continent of America.
They proposed to make that continent partly a refuge for
persons in England who wished to leave England, and
partly with the grander view of laying the foundation of a
great nation thereafter to be created, as it were, on that
continent, and thus forming the nucleus of a great purchas-
ing Power for their own commodities. The last colony we
established there was Georgia, which was, I think, in 1772.
Those colonies owed nothing, however, to the English na-
tion as a nation, or to the Government as a Government,
but they owed everything to the English people. From
them they derived their language, their institutions, their
manners, their literature, their laws, and their character.
They grew up, in fact, to be a great nation. Inspired and
governed by the feelings of Englishmen, they took offence
at what they deemed t, be oppression. They resisted
that oppression, and determined to throw off the but den.
At that time, Sir, England had the misfortune to be

governed by a narrow-minded, bigoted monarch. (Oh,
and Hear.) That monarch determined to reeist the de-

mands of the American people. He waged a w, r 'which
made enemies of us and them, and, instead ,)' allowing
them to separate themselves peaceably from England, they
were violently divided from us, and hatre i w. a the conse-

quence. However, not only did the Ame ;, ar, people esta-
blish their independence, but they establish -C two points of
international law which I think of very great importance at
the present time. The first was that may body of people
determined to throw off their allegiance, if they had the
power, were justified in so doing; and we acknowledged
that to be a principle of international morality by the treaty
we made with them in 1813. The second great point was
in truth a very remarkable one. The French interfered in

that dispute, and France bore the same relationship to our
revolted colonies that we do now to the Confederate States
of America. We made peace with France, and thereby
established another rule of international morality, or as it is
sometimes called international law; that is to say, we thereby
acknowledged that, although we made war against Franco
for so acknowledging the rebellious colonies to be indepen-
dent states—'we acknowledged afterwards brat France was
justified in acknowledging those states before we acknow-
ledged them. Now these two principles of international
law I deem to be of the highest importance at the present

moment, and I bring them to bear against the Northern
States of America; for, though other nations may dispute
them, it is clear they cannot, then began the great race of
American prosperity, and a very curious thing occurred, of

which not much notice was taken. Alter the war of 18.15

the Northern States began their course of protection. They
determined to make the Southern States, which were the

great producers, subservient to themselves, and they esta-
blished a tariff which placed the whole carrying power in
the hands of the Northern Sates, and also made the South
purchase the commodities they required of the Northern
manufacturers. From that moment a dispute grew up be•

tween the South and the North. In 1827 the South tried to

release themselves from the yoke of the tariff, but failed.
Then came the hope of making slavery relieve them from
that tariff and the thraldom put upon them by the Northern
States. That feeling grew up day by day, month by month,

and year by year, until at last secession came; and then
those gentlemen who are so incorporated with the literature

of the North (looking towards Messrs. Cobden and Bright)
in spite of the obloquy it brought upon them, made Europe

believe that the North had only to stretch forth her

hand, and in 90 days they could crush the rebellion. The
90 days went past, but no conquest had been recorded ; and
two years had since passed away in the same manner. The

question now was, what was England to do ? He (Mr. Roe-
buck) said they were to recognise the South, and why ?
First, because they had vindicated for themselves the right

of acknowledgment. (Cheers.) With a very small force
they had conquered the North, and rolled back the tide of

invasion. (Cheers.) It was not Richmond that was noa

threatened, but Washington. (Cheers.) Upon the question
of international law he would appeal to the hon. and learned
Solicitor-General whether it was not international law that
when a people showed power of resistance, and declared
they would be independent, we were fully justified in ac-
knowledging that people, and in the language of the learned
Sir James Mackintosh, " that it would be no casus belli
when we made that acknowledgment." (Hear.) The first
question therefore was, should we acknowledge the South ?
He would say "Aye," first because they had vindicated
their right to be acknowledged ; and, secondly, because it
was for our interest to acknowledge them. (Hear.) There
had never been such a phenomenon as that now presented
of 10,000,000 of civilised men producing three of the great
necessary commodities of Europe—sugar, cotton, and to-
bacco—looking about for customers, and saying to Europe,
" Here are nearly a million of your people suffering from
the want of the articles we produce. We have them here to
offer you, and we want to know, are you prepared to accept
them ?" What was it, then, that prevented the recognition
of the South ? He looked at the Government bench for a
reply, and was sorry to notice the absence of the noble vis-
count, who was really the Government himself. (Cheers.)
What was it that prevented that great act of humanity to
England and of justice to America ? He knew he should be
met with the statement that England could not recognise
a State in which slavery existed. No ? Had we not ac-
knowledged Brazil? (Hear, hear.) Were we not in con-
stant communication with Russia ? was there no slavery
there ? (Hear.) More than that, did anybody believe that the
black would be at all improved in his condition by being put
in the position of a free black in the North ? (Cheers.) He
asked, if the North Americans hated slavery, whether they
did not hate the slaves the more ? (Cheers, and a single
"No" from the vicinity of Mr. Bright's seat.) He pittied
the ignorance of the hon. gentleman who said " No," Why,
they were not permitted to take any equal station, to ride
in the same carriage, to pray to God in the same place in
the churches, nor to sit down at the same table. In fact,
they were hunted about like stray dogs by everybody. In
the South all that was very different. Black and white chil-
dren were brought up and went to school together. The
hon. and learned gentleman said there was a kindly feeling
in the mind of the Southern planters for those men whom
England sent there, and who were the cause of fixing
slavery there. It was not the doing of America, for they
prayed to England not to introduce or establish the slave
trade; but we did it because it then suited our interests,
and those who were now prone to talk philanthropy, talked
" 'tother" way then. (Hear, and laughter.) He referred
to the difference of feeling existing in the North and South
towards the black, which could not be mistaken ; the former
shivered when he came across a black, and appeared con-
taminated in the fact of his being on an equality with him,
but that was not the case with the South. (Hear.) Slavery
was as distasteful to him as to the hon. member for Bir-
mingham, but he had learnt to bear with other men, and
with other men's infirmities—(laughter and ironical cheers)
and he thought that to make all the blacks of the South
like the free blacks of the North would be a curse to the
land. (Oh, oh, and Hear, hear.) The cry of the North
was a hypocritic cry, for they mould join the South to-
morrow, and fasten slavery on the necks of the South-
erners if they would but come into the Union ; but they
never would come into the Union again, and they hoped
they never might. He referred to the conduct of
America before the civil war, describing her as the great
bully of the world, bestriding the world like a Colossus,
whilst we, like petty men, walked through her huge legs to
seek for ourselves dishonourable graves ; and he assured the
house that, so far as his influence went, he was determined
to prevent the reconstruction of the Union. (Hear, hear.)
After referring to our humiliation previous to the American
difficulty—to the fact that the South was becoming a menu •
factoring people, which, if continued, might tend to the in-
jury of the trade of this country—he said the time had come
for mediation ; and the mitt question was, how it should be
accomplished. He said the mode he proposed was, that
that house should pray to the Queen to have communica-
tion with the great Powers of Europe, in meter to lead to a
recognition of the South. The great Powers of Europe
meant really France—(hear, hear)—for no other country
but Russia has any fleet, and her fleet was not worth think-
ing of. (Hear, and laughter.) Russia is in a position to
do nothing, and the only Power we have to consider is
Vrance—(hear, hear)—and if France and England united
to acknowledge the South there will be an end of the war.
(Hear, hear.) Now, I am obliged to enter into a sort of per-
sonal history which I hope the house will excuse. lam
now going to state that I know something about the state
of the mind of the French ruler, which 1 am authorised to
lay before this house. (Laughter and ironical cheers.)
snowing what had been said by her Majesty's Government
about the Emperor of the French having changed his mind
on this subject, I applied to my hon. friend the member for
Sunderland, knowing that he has permission given to him of
writing to the Emperor of the French when he wishes to see
him, and I suggested, as a means of ascertaining whether the
rumour' was true or not, that we should go across and ask
:question.
in (Hear,lwre telaaungdhttehre,
sanbdsitdrao3.inciecoafl
his letter was laid before
thecheers.)
Emperor
3ry
accordingly
Emg yeror andwehad anu
land (and he gave En
The Emperor of the Freenchinformedeuirsetahlaatti,eanasuisnoolEen.nnegaesi
he had learned such a rumour
tfh.rie'end
e authority to state it in the House of
Lon-
don to deny the truth of the assertion,
his .
Commons), he sent instructionstoisamabna'dsstaedaoareiunreLothne-
English Government that in so far. as feelings had
to • • him in
and to ask them again if they were willing io
changed they had become stronger in favour of recognition,
thatta k e recognition.abeu tthe
m a
t(
tile
re,aarn,
dh elan) Now there mustt bet
the
eot
truth
h-
of the statement I have made. (Cheers.) tolod me such
had been sent to Baron Gros, and then to tell. d
Pledge
my
veracityHe
me that the
British Government does not know that it has occurred
m ,maenadn
tsome
iadiaploemenattriacdieevtiaosnio, n that cannot be the
between the statement of the witnesses ; but I repeat I
pledge my veracity for the truth of whaastaljhuadvgee swtaotueldd, saanyd
I don't believe the world will doubt my word. (Hear, hear,
and cheers.) Further than this, I laid before his Majesty
two courses of conduct that I thought ought to be pursued
in the present case. I sail, "Your Majesty might make a
formal application to England," upon which he stopped rue
and said he could not do it, and he would tell me why he
i could not. Some months ago, he said, he made a formal ap-
-1 plication to England, which was forwarded to America, and
was shown by Mr Seward to the French ambassador. He
considered himself ill-treated by that conduct—(hear, hear,
and cheers)—and he declined subjecting himself again to
the danger of similar treatment ; but he said he would do
everything short of it, and he gave me full liberty to state
in the English House of Commons that it was his wish
and determination in all things to act with England ; and,
more than all, he was determined to act with her as re-
garded America. (Cheers.) Ido not believe that her Ma-
jesty's Government are ignorant of the feelings of the Em-
1, per or of the French, or that they are prepared to act in concert
with France, They are afraid of a war with the Northern
States in America; but my impression is that we might in
ten days sweep every American ship from off the face of
the seas. (Oh, oh, and cheers.) There are people who are so
imbued with Northern feelings as to feel indignant with
that assertion—(hear, and cheers)—but it is well known
that the Warrior would destroy the whole of the North
American fleet; their armies are melting away; Washing-
ton is in danger ; and the only fear we ought to have is that
Southern independence will be established without us.
(Cheers.) In conclusion, the hon and learned gentleman
said—A large portion of our manfacturing population have
been for some months past living on charity, and I regret to
find, from information I leavt received from Manchester and