The Sun.
London, England, 1839-08-27 00:00:00

Lord BROUGHAM moved fur a copy of the
charter of the University of London and the rules and
degreesconferred by that University. He could not move
for thesereturns without calling the attention of the House
to the state in which education was at present placed
in this country. He trusted that with regard to that
most important subject there could be no discussion—
upon which all were agreed, they would do their duty
in such a manner as would redoundito the honour of Par-
liament, the credit of the country, and the peace and satis-
faction of their own minds, and they would be enabled to
look back with satisfaction to the result of their labours.
The Noble and Learned Lord then adverted to the
great debate which had taken place on the Government
plan of education—a debate which had engaged
all the talent and experience of their Lordships—
a debate which had excited the most heart-
felt interest in the country—a debate which
had called to their Lordships' bar, in breathless atten-
tion and extraordinary numbers, the Commons of Eng-
land, with others of their countrymen, to witness the mo-
mentous struggle—a debate, of which the result was an-

ticipated throughout the empire, with an anxiety hardly
paralleled—certainly never surpassed. One inference
which he drew from this debate was that their Lord-
ships could no longer remain neutral on the subject,—
that they could no longer withdraw from the position
which their station and character in the Legislature
of their country entitled and called upon them to assume
with regard to education—had he been told thirty
years ago that such a debate would have been heard—
a debate upon a subjectf ~,wAttc: is at that distance of
time was too generally ckoisiaered scarcely worth"), to
yawn away any time uppn. Had he been told that
their Lordships' attention would so earnestly be di-
rected to it he should have considered it one of the
wildest delusions that a disordered fancy could suggest.
To this subject his attention had for many years been
urgently directed, and seeing that in the contest for
place and power the two great parties in Parliament
had neglected it, he had endeavoured to frame a gene-
ral measure upon it. To that measure their Lord-
ships had this Session declined assenting ; and that he
had not declared his intention to persist in it, that
he had intimated his intention to withdraw it, was not
owing to any doubt either upon the principle or
the details of that Bill, as to which his con-
victions were as strong as ever. His doubts
arose upon another point, and from a totally different
quarter ; he felt that his bringing forward that Bill
annually would have the effect of procuring for him ex-
clusive possession of the subject ; that it would prevent
others from bringing it forward, others who might
perhaps have more ability, more-power for the carrying
of the great object than he had. And it was because
he desired that the question should be taken up by
those who had more weight and influence in Parliament

—therefore it was that he had come to the resolution
not to abandon this subject—God forbid. While he
existed it was not possible for him to do so—
it was interwoven with his heart—it was entwined
in his very nature, he could not—nay, more,
he durst net if he could. But my Lord, (said the
Noble and Learned Lord), I abandon it in a qualified
sense of the term. I withdraw to let others more
powerful take it up. I give it over to my Noble Friend
at the head of the Government, and let him apply his
iforous and manly understanding ; let him, with all the
resources at his command, as the head of the Executive
Government—let him, with all the assistance he has from
the supporters of that Government in this House—let
him take it up according to those principles, unchanged,
if he so pleases, or according to any other and better
principles, it he prefers others, en reflection— (and
no man would be more ready to give up his opinion
to him than I shall—let him on those principles
change or modify it—let him take this question in
hand—let him prepare a measure, propound it on right
principles, and call on Parliament to support it as far as
it merits deserve support. My Lords, it is needless to say
with Vi:hat cordial feeling I shaH greet his entering upon
this course, and to what an extent my ancient attachment
for it will root it in my bosom, and I shall hail his taking
that part which not only his duty prescribes to him,
but which his interest as a Minister ought to
induce him to take, as the certainty, if not of a great
measure being carried, at least of his encircling his Go-
vernment with a glory that will never fade. Therefore
the ground between them was plain and easy, and he
left the Bill in his hands from this day, and most anxi-
ous was he that the subject should be taken up and
brought to a satisfactory conclusion by his Noble Friend.
He had stated one conclusion he had drawn from the
debate, he would now state another that was not so en-

tirely satisfactory. A majority of their Lordships, on the
motion of a Most Reverend Prelate, had come to a reso-
lution condemnatory of the plan of his Noble Friend. He
need not say what were the feelings of oue who had always
taken an interest in that subject on that occasion ; but
he would state what he considered to be his duty. His
duty was not to suffer himself to be misled by any feel-
ings of self-delusion, but as they had suffered defeat to
inquire into the grounds of that defeat, to examine into

its causes in order that on a future occasion they might
profit by the experience of the past, and avoid a like
disaster. The conclusion to which he had come on a
mature consideration of all the circumstances as to

the cause of their discomfiture was, that any plan
of universal national education in England would
be utterly impracticable if the Church of England
should be excluded from its management.—(Hear.)
His original opinion was, that a preference should be
given to the Established Church ; that was not an
opinion which he had gathered from the debate of the
other night, that was the principle on which he had
grounded his Education Bill of 1819 ; and because he
had recognised the Established Church, the Dissenters
had met him in consultation, the whole subject was dis-
cussed, and in that discussion only one convert was
obtained, but it was a worthy one, for it was no other
than the Rev. Dr. Lindsay. He said he would have
h;s children educated, even if itmust be done by the Pope
of Rome himself. These were among the last words
spoken by him, for he died suddenly next day. He said
he thought Popery was wrong—he said Episcopacy
was error—he thought he was right, but if ha were
afraid to allow his children to be taught by them, he
would confess that he was so. The Church had done

much for education, but she followed in the footsteps
of the Dissenters who had done .more. Both pro-
fess:2d a great love and veneration for education—
but humiliating and humbling as was the confession, it
must be allowed that they both loved victory more.
It would do much mischief such a feeling, unless their
Lordships interposed. He should never advocate any
system that did not throw open the doors to all sects
and parties. He felt it his duty to offer these few remarks
to their Lordships. He hoped his Noble Friend (Vis-
count Melbourne) would take an early opportunity in the
ensuing Session, of bringing forward a measure on the
subject. He (Lord Brougham) would take his
share, as a humble follower of the Noble Viscount, in
the triumph which he would then have achieved. After
apologising for trespassing on their Lordships' time, the
Noble and Learned Lord concluded by moving for the
papers to which he alluded at the commencement of his
address.
The returns were then agreed to.
The Marquis of WESTMINSTER said a few words
quite inaudibly, and their Lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, AUGUST 26.
The SPEAKER took the Chair at a Quarter after
Three o'Clock.

Mr. Campbell presented Papers from the India House

Sir R. I SIG LIS presented a petition from the Com-
mission of the General Assembly of the Church of Scot-
land against the Government plan of national education.
Also from four parishes in England with the same prayer.
Mr. 0 SW A LD presented a petition to the same effect.
Mr. M. PHILLIPS gave notice that early' next
Session he would move for leave to bring in a Bill to
permit and regulate the grinding of foreign corn in bond
for exportation.
Mr. WAKLEY said he had a deferred motion
for to-day respecting the case of Thomas, who had
been impisoned since December last. The Noble Lord
the Secretary for the Home Department had agreed to
refer the case to the Attorney-General, which was a
course which would give satisfaction to every one. He
had, therefore, no motion to make on that subject. He
then moved for an Account of all Sums of Money di-
rected to be paid by order of the Central Criminal
Court on the prosecution of Francis Hastings Med-
hurst, convicted of Mandaughter ; distinguishing the
payments made in compliance with the certificatesalso,
an
the local Magistrates from the allowances that were
granted by the Court, in respect of the trial ;
Account of all Sums of Money paid by order of the
General Court of Quarter Sessions, Middlesex, for
expenses incurred by the Coroner in holding the in-
quest on the body of Joseph Alsop, at Haves, on the.
16th and 18th of March, 1839.
COUNTY AND DISTRICT CONSTABLES
BILL.

The Lords amendments to the County and Distriei
Constables Bill were agreed to.

BOLTON POLICE BILL.
The Lords' amendments to this Bill were also
agreed to.
NEW WRIT FOR CAMBRIDGE.
Mr. E. J. STANLEY moved that the Speaker do
issue a writ for the election of a Member for the borough
of Cambridge, in the room of the Right Hon. Thomas
Spring Rice„ who had accepted the office of Steward of
the Chiltern Hundreds.
Mr. D'ISR..DELI thought the House ought to ha% e