The Sun.
London, England, 1801-03-19 00:00:00

PRIVATE CONINIITTEES.

The lord's' Committees meet to-morrow, pre-
cisely at -half past two o'clock, for the investi-
iation of the Bishop of Durham's estate Bill.

-

~_.:~:--

ROUSE OF COMM:O7NS,
WEDNESDAY, MACH IS.
THE Orders for the Attendance of several
Members°, in consequence of the Call, were dis-
charged, they being then present.
• ORDERS OF THE HOUSE.
Mr. FIERREPOINT said, he rose- in poi_suance of the notice he had given to bring- for-
ward his Motion respeaing the Number •of
Members necessary to constitute a House. He
certainly should not have - troubled the House,
With it, if he had not the fullest conviction of its
importance, and of its necessity. - Since he- had
had the honour of a Seat in that Assembly, he
had, upon many occasions, had the happiness to
see a numerous concourse of Members, but at the
same time, he had but too. often come down and
seen altnalt empty benches, and that too when
questions of importance were before the House;
and. very frequently had he seen the House count-
ed out for want of a sufficient number of Members
to put the Sr EAKER in the Chair. It was unne-
cessary for him to remind- the House,: hcssv -often
.Debates had been interrupted -by thedeperture of
Members, who, he thought;. had come down to
give their assistance in. dispatching. 'the Business
of the Public, but who seethed to think they had
. performed their duty when they had constituted
a House competent to proceed. upon bosiness.—
lie adverted in particular .(and it was in the re-
• collection of several Gentlemen) to what he must
term the• disgraceful circumstance .of their being
obliged .to adjourn for, four successive days, for
want of a sufficient number of Members, and that
too at a titnef;when, frinn the impending Call, no
Membek could leave London,. and when they
were disitussitiva• question • of—the-real eitinu
portance, aod concerting measures to alleviate
the distresses of the most and industrious
class of the Community. How Gentlemen could
reconcile such a dereliftion of their duty, with- a
sense of the trust reposed in them by their Con-
stituents, he. couldenot tell, but he thought it
impossible, that, under- such circumstances, 'that
attention should not be awakened to a subjea. so
materially affeding the dispatch of Public Busi-
ness, and the ;general interest C;•fthe Country. It
did 'not. appear-from-any Record' that be had met
with, that there was_any expre_ss Standing Order
upon this subjed ; but the history of the preced-
ing reign afforded strong reason to think that
there was some such regulation, for it appeared,
that on the zoth of April, 1607, the House rose
at ten o'clock, there-nott being above 6o Members
present—but on the sth of January, it was de-
clared, as -a constant Rule, that the SPEAKER
should not take the Chaii. until 40 Members were
present. Since that-period, however, there had
-been very considerable -additions to the number
of Members in that House. The number.when
the Order he' alluded to was made, was 4.89.—
There had been since, an addition of 24.-English
Members, in consequence. of new Boroughs being
erected, and of 45 Members for- Scotland, after
the Union with that •Country, and .now too
Members more were added in consequence of the
Union with Ireland, being altogether.elt increase
of 1.69 Members, since the Order 'was made, and
making nearly one-fourth of the whole House.—
No addition, however, had been mite to the
number of Members necessary—to constitute
- House ; but he was not aware of any objection that
could possibly be made to the Motion which he
should submit to 'the House for that purpose.—
The Propositiob he meant to' make was, to
increase the -number of Members necessary to
make a House from Forty to Sixty, and he'-did
not think such an augmentation could be con.
sidered as unreasonable ; for then it' could not ex.
ceed one-eleventh of all the Members of the
House, and he believed he might safely assume,
that it was not above one.sixth part of those who
were resident-in London. It was his wish, upon
this occasion, to avoid going intd-eny extraneous
matter, and therefore he would' not occupy the.
time of the House by talking about the War or
the Taxes ; -but if the situation of the Country
was such as to require that every man should
pay one-tenth of his Income, be put it to the
feelings of the House, whether the People had
not a right to exped hat a tenth part of their
`Representatives should attend their duty in Par-
liament ? He did not see any objetlion that
could he urged against this measure, for surely,
Gentlemenlwere not prepared to argue abort their
own personal convenience, when they recollefted
the solemn engagements by which they were
bound to their Constituents. He should now
conclude with snaking- his. Motion, which-he con-
sidered as. essential to the dignitrof that House;
it was, ." That in future the SPEAKER. should not
take the Chair until there were Sixty Members
U n the House."

%Olen other questions of a less interesting nature
came. on. He wished the Hon. Gentleman to

consider how far the Motion he had made Was
likely to meet that Evil. The Motion was,
that the Srvmtralhotild take the Chair till

Sixty Members were present, but the Hon. Gen_
tleman had rroposed no means for cOmpelling
these Sixty Gentlemen to remain in the House.
The whole 658 Members,tnigl)t he compelled' to
come down to the House, blit it was impossible
to compel them to stop if they did not think it
pr9per. He
,was willing to give his testimony
'to the regular manner in which the Hon. Gentle-
man discharged his Parliamentary duty ; he' was
undoubtedly entitled to the Thanks of his Con.

stituents, for his attention, and as far as it was a

matter of feeling, he had the pleasure of think,
ing that he had dont his duty. " But if the Hon.,
Gentleman was not successful in appealing to the

' feelings of other Gentlemen upon this subject, the
Order Which he -noa...propoied, would Word no
remedy. The Hon. Gentleman, seemed to con,. -
Sider it as disgraceful that sometimes' the attend-
ance was rather thin,„ and had asked Gentlemen
how they could reconcile it, to their duty not
to attend regolarly until the House rose)--
He could not help thinking, that this charge was
not well founded, because no subjea of geeat
portance ever passed that House without a ful)-
atte.ndanee in some' stage or other of it 2
Hon. Gentleman had alluded to the thin attend"-
atice upon the Bill, for exempting certain Persons
from the Payment of the Poor Rates, but the
Hon.. Gentleman knew why the attendance was
so .thin upon that occasion—it was because the
House in general did not approve of the measure.
.It very seldorn happened; that when any Guide..
man had the. misfortune to. conduit a measure, and
could scarcely prevail upon ,eo _Members to at,
tend, that he alternately suecceded.-. And this was
really the history: of business' of this nature. It
had been said; that millions were ,voted in thin
Houses, but this was rather. a. technical than .
..e.a_ziearge.;:-Becausie it never happened that any
really important measure,yaTia-Vvithoot a full
attendance and discussion in some stage or other
of it. It. was• absurd to .soppose that- all' the
Members could always attend. This .Motion
only went to enforce the-attendance of 6o Mem- .
hers when thes SPEAKER took the. Chair, but he
-.supposed that the Hon. Gentleman meant after..
,wards to propose,,, that any .Gentletnan• might
count out the House, if there were not 6o Mem-
bers present at any period. The reason why it
was
_ordered that there should a►wvaysbe 40 Mem-
bers present, was to prevent surprize; and 4o
Members were 'as effeaual for that ,o6jeet as .60,,
It Was evident that this was formerly' the.opinion
of the .House, that the number of Members had
been increased by the addition of seventy, yet there
had been no increase in the number of Members
necessary to constitute a House. And,although,
there wAs a farther augmentation of Members in
consequence of the Union with Ireland, he did not
consider that a relson why the ,number of Mem-
bers to, make a House should be- increased from
ao to bo, bedause, as he had said before, 4.0 were
completely sufficient to prevent the House from
-being taken by surprize.—.-It never happened that
any business of great importance did not cause a
full attendance.---He should therefore oppose this '
measure, • because it had more of form than of
substance; because, though it might compel
Members to come dot em, it could not corny ei,thern
to rcinain.-,-The attendance most always depend
upon the nature of the 'question, and consequently
the. Motion of the Hon. Gentleman, if adopted,
would in no degree remove the evil of which he
complained. „
Mr. JONES rose to express his astonishment _
at hearing this Motion opposed. We were now
in the 8-th year of War, and he would state a few
of the divisions which had lately taken place, to
shew tbe.nature of the attendance in that House.
He considered this as a sol;fea. of great import.
vice,- because be believed the. Public were not sa-
tisfied at the mode of attendance in that House. The
division on the Habeas Corpus Suspension
was 113 for it, against 14. only, On the Incoine
Tax Bill; the numbers were for it 4,,5, against it g
altogether :54. Members, to vote away
the subiance and vitals of the Country. On the
Treason Forfeiture, Bill, there were. for it 57,
against it 8. On the Motion for a Negotiation
with France, the division was, against it fig, for
it only S. On the Motion for die Call of the
lipase, the numbers were, Ayes 27, Nods 124..
On' the gth of June last' so Bills passed. On the
t Bth and 19t1r, there 'were only 9 Members
present. He had heard that nine Taylors niecle
a man, .but he did not think that nine Mem-
bers ought to make a Rouse. ,Upon • a divi.
.sion upon a Motion made by an Han. Friend
of his, there were 38 against it, and for it
only his Friend and himself, for they had,
nobody to' count. Gentlemen might laugh, but
he did not
,consider it as a subject of ridiettle,
for this happened on a Saturday' morning at 12
o'clock, when the Right Moil. the Ex-Cnancellot
, of the Exchequer proposed to Adjotun l'arii.aroent

for three months, with Fire Millions of .stoney
in his possession unappropriated. He desired A.o
ask, whether a similar it, stance could he pro-
' tloced in the annals of the British Hisblry ?-=—On
the Motion for Peace,• the majority .was.4j, Sapd
in the minoritythere was only If:itself. to -cgunt.
Gentlemen might laugh, but he considered it a's.
not very decent t they were sitting there, voting
Taxei, LOans, and Pensions, and he thought
there ought to be a fuller attendance, for it was
one of the main. props of the Constitution.. He
hoped his Hon. Friend-would take the sense of
the House upon this subje4, and he expressed his.
intention of again bringing it under theconsider-
ation of the House.
Mr. DENT said a few words,
,we believe in
favour of the Motion, but we did not hear him
distindly.
The House -then divided ; —for. the Motion
19—against it 151—majority 132. When we
were re_admitted into the Gallery, we found
Mr. C. DUNDAS. on his legs, moving for a
leave to bring in Bill for extending the provi-
sions of the 13th of his preSent Majesty, for the
bnprovement of Waste .Lands, and for the en-
- couragement of the Culture of Potatoes, &c.
Sir W. PuLTENE Y seconded the. Motion.

Leave was given to bring in the Bill, and Mr.
C. DUNDAS and Sir W. PuLTENEY Were ordered
to prepare and bring in the same.

ORDERS OF. THE DAV.

Lord CAViEREAGH rose to 'move, " That the
House should resolve itself into a Committee on
the Irish Duty Bill.
• Lord W. RUSSELL said, that 'the Order for
going into a Committee on the Bill for granting
Exemptions from the Poor Rates, iri certain cases,
stoodfirst in the Order Book.
Lord. CA S'TLEREAGH said, the business
was of the greatest importance, and would not
admit Of any delay, because the Martial Law
Bill; and some of the Irish Duties, which it was
i)e,.:essary-to continue, would expire on the 2s:h
of March. • •
Lord W. RUSSELL said, he had already given
way upon a former .occasion ;--the Bill pressed
' very much in point of time, and the HOuse had
- already been twice counted out upon it.
The SOLICITOR GENERAL did not cem-
ceive that public business of the highest im-
portance was to 'give way, because.another Mo-
tion accidentally stood before it on the Order
Book. •
The SPEAKER said, the usual way was to
read the Orders of the Day as they stood in the
Book.

Mr. GREY conceived that the preference ought
to be given to his Noble Friend : his Motion
bad been put off before, because it 'did not stand
rst in the Order Book. The Noble Lord op--
bosite to him coujd be put to no inconvenience
y having his business postponed tilt after that
of his Noble Friend, because it was of such im-
portance that it .wouhl ensure attendance—and
there would be full time, after the Debate upon
the Poor.rate Exemption Bill, to proceed upon
the ()their business. • .
The SOLICITOR GENERAL Vila,, that the
Noble Lord (CAs.rr.ia EACH) was in possession
of the House, and had a right to be heard first.
Lord fr. RUSSEL moved the Order of the
Day for going into a Committee on the Poor
Rate Exemption Bill.
Mr, RYDER moved, that the order should be
postponed until the other orders were disposed
of.

Mr. WIIITPRE.4D opposed the -motion,
because from what he had already seen, he was
sure that if the Nobe Lord's (CASTLEREACH)
motion came on first, there would not remain
time enough to discuss his Noble Friend's Bill.
Mr. 3. H. TOOKE said, that as one of the
Bills was for taking away lives, and the other
for preserving them, he hoped they would consider
the Bill for preserving mens lives first. ['Here
there was a cry of order.] He conceived he was
not out of order, because the Martial Law Bill'.
'might eventually take away lives, whereas the
other Bill was to preserve them.
Colonel MARTIN contended strongly, .that
tthe House Ought- first to consider the Martial_
• Law Bill, for it was of such importance, that
the safety of Ireland.mightd,epelid upon it. He
adwitted that the Poor Exemption Bill was also •
one. of importance, and be was sorry, on. this
• occasion, that, lid should be obliged to Note for
,postponing •it. However, for one, he pledged
himself to attend, in coder to make a House,
whenever it came on again. I .
Mr. PIE RREPOINT,said,
.as the other busi-
ness was the more likely to ensure attendance,
he should vote for giving the preference to the
Poor Rate Exemption Bill.
Mr. GREY spoke in favour of the Motion of
Lord,W.Russzu.., • •
Lard DE 'BLAQUIERE was of opinion,
that as the. Motion of the Noble Lord (Lord W.
RV SSE LL) stood first in the Order Book, it could
not be put off.
The SPEAKER said, it was ustial to move
to put off Orders of the Day, and the House
might dispose of them .in any manner it thought
proper.
Mr. TIERNEY said, it was. usual for Gentle.
men whose business stood first, to give way to
public busines's ; hut he did not know an instance
of an Order being put off against the consent of
the Person who had moved it. He looked upon
this as the first measure of the new Ministers ;
and if it was aeted upon, the COilSeqUellCe would

be., that they need never attend to tile discussion
. of any business they did not like, for they had
only to move to postpone it till after. all other
public business. By concurring with the motion
of his Noble Friend, the business of the Noble
Lord on the other side of the House would not be

delayed, because it might come on afterwards ;
it-was of well iMportance)•as to secure a suf.,
4j-Ileient attendance.

Mr. BRig.;GE said, that the Noble Lord
(CAsTkEttEAGH), was first in possession of the
House, and in his opiniOn, hact th?refore a right
to the preference,

After a conversation, the House dig iued,
For Lord Vi. Rt!St /I.'S Motion, 47
Aaaiust it,
100

•
lajority, 53 ,
When• w were'reAdmitted,
Lord CAST L. ERt AC ti ved, " That the House
should re,oh'e itself into a Committee, to eon.
sider of certain duties.in Ireland upon Sugar, &c."
The HonSe resolved itself into the Committee,
Mr. BE4GG-E in the Chair.

LorclCAsrL eR EACH -proposed a Resolution for

continuing- the duty, sOlich was agreed to,
.and
the House being resumed, the Report eras order-
ed to be received to-morrow.

The House' resolved itself into a Committee,
to consider -of cettain other Irish duties, Mr.

BRAGGE in the Chair.
Lord CASTLEREAGH moved a Resolution for
continuing the said duties, which was agreed to,
and the House being resumed, the Report was
calm(' to be received to-morrow.