The Sun.
London, England, 1830-12-17 00:00:00

CARRICKFERGUS ELECTION.

. - -
Sir R. INGLIS presented a petition, signed by IS
voters of the town of Carrickfergus, which stated that the'
signatures of several persons to the petition, complaining
of the undue return of the. sitting Member, were forgeries.
—Ordered to he printed. •
Mr.IIOI3HOUSE presented a petition from St. James's,
Westminster, complaining of the appointment of Select
Vestries. The Hon. Member said, that the petition had, in
the course of a few hours, received a thousand signatures,
and the parishioner's justly complained of the great griev.
ance they endured in being deprived of their natural rights.
In these sentiments he cordially and sincerely concurred.
Such a system of intolerance was the Select Vestries,
that the inhabitants of St. James's had almost come to an
unanimous determination not to pay any More rates unless
they could controul the expenditure. To do, therefore,
away, if possible, with the disgust that now 'existed, he
would give notice of his intention, on the first day after
the recess, to bring in a Bill upon the subject:
Mr. resset Pelhain Mr. Denman, Mr. Alderimm
Wood, Mr. Ifurne,-and Sir Francis Burdett, supported the
prayer of the petition.
Mr. WILKS stated that the abolition of the Select
Vestry in the parish of Shoreditch was attended with' a
reduction in the rattcor2a.—namely, from 4.5. Bd. to ,Jr. Bth
Mr. HOI3HOUSE said that the Bid he intended to
bring in, would give every rate.payer an opportu-
nity of voting in the election of parish officers.—
He should introduce a clause, however, to render
it optional with parishes to have the Act extended to. them
or net, to be decided by a majority of the parishioners.
Mr.' HOBHOLISB presented a petition from Mr. Thinn,
a surgeon, complaining of the present laws releting to
mad-houses.•

Mr. EWART presented a petition front the Jessgs at
Liverpool, praying that their civil rights may be granted
tht rn.

Mr. WILK'S presented it petition from Boston, pray-
ing for Reform, retrenchment, and a general reduction
of taxation, particularly for a 'repeal of the • Assessed
Taxes, the nuties on Coals, Soil), and candle,,
and that al solarles aright be reduced to the standard
of 1793. •

CORBETT'S REGISTER.
Mr. TREVOR wished to ask the lion. and Learned
Member for Nottingham, if he had had his attention
called to an anonymous letter in a weekly periodical, which
he then held in his hand ? Ile hal no hesitation
in saying it was a most scandalous and diabolical prabli
cation, and, et a time like the present,
when special com.
missions were issuing for the repressing of anarchy and non'
fusion; at a time when the Legislature' was endeavouring
to alleviate the distresses of the people, it was a most
serious evil that circulation should be given to papers of

the description to which Le alluded. They were circulated
through
_the kingdom, and perused by those individuals
who were the most discontented and disaffected, The pub-
lication to which be eroded was degrading to the press.
The SPEAKER here said he was unwilling to inter-
rupt any flommeable Member,
.esrcially at a time when
he was about to ad: a queNtion ; but the argument into
which he was enterinv was irregular, unless the lion.
Member iotended to Mow it up by come distinct motion.
Mr. E. VOR—I wish to ask the Attorney- General, if
he has taken any °Rid costiz Ince of the publication to
which I entitle ?-41.0ud Cries of Name, nme.")
Mr. TREVOR---I mean abbett's Register of Satur-
day last.—(llear, hear )
The ATTORNEY-OESERAL—I certainly received
u note from the Hon. Member on this subject, but it has
been so short a time since, that I have not had an oppor-
tunity of reading the article to which he alludes. I cannot
Ocrefore ¢ ye en answer to the Hoe. Member's question.
Mr, TREVOR —Under such cireumstinces, then, I
shall only say, I will bring, the subject under tl.e consi-
deration of tb ilouse to-morrow.

Mr. WYSE presented a peCtion from a parish in the
county of Ulm, against the grant to the Kildare plaed
Society.—Laid on the table.

Air. WYSE presented a letielon from th hulder4 -(71
chattel lemes in lrelantl, 91%%r0ur rf I'arliarnentary
Reform,

Lord ATCHESON presented a Fetition from two places
in Sufulk against negro blaver .
Mr, CYCONNOR presented, a petition from some
Mare in the county of Roscommon, against further grants
to the Kiblare•street Society.
Mr. HUME presented a petition float S tahompton,
complaining of general distress, and praying for Reform
and retrenchment. The Hon. (3,ottleman bt ate d , that the
petition had been confided to hint- because the electors of
Southampton conk! nn longer place confidence in their ott n
Members, who had made pledges to them, but not re-
cleaned them.

Mr. HOY complained of the stitement of the Hon.
Gentleman, in saying that he had lost the coofidenee of his
constituents. The fact was, that the petition which had
Feed presented was one propo ed as an amendment by one
lawyer,
,and seconded by another. ;When he mentioned
th profession of these gentlemen, he did not do it invi-
diously, but only to show that at all events they were
not persons of first•rate consetplence,in Southampton. It
was likewise worthy of notice, that nue of these gentlemen
had been agent to his opponent at one ,election, and the,
other had written to him (Mr. Hay) to employ him at
the late election, with which request, however, he had
nut complied ; besides which, he thought that if the lion.
Oentleman would take the trouble to, inquire, he would
find that the petition was by no means signed by the ma-
jority of the electors of Southampton. The lion. Gen-
tleman, however, wee very fond of setting himself up as
the censurer of the whole House—(dear, hear)—lectur-
ing every person on his course of cooduct. Hear, bear.)
Ile had taken on himself to tell them that be would have
no Minister of State in the House; next, he would have
no Ea,t India Director, no Bank Director—in short, no
director but himself.----(Laughter and cheers,)+-Nor was
this the only course he adopted in his search after popu.
laxity ; like a trite Indian sportsman, he shot at every.
thing, from an elephant to a snipe—(Loughter)—setting
himself up ,as redresser-general of grievances, and re-
ceiver-general of p:titions.—(Hear, hear.) lie (Mr.
Hoy) did not pretend himself to be able to compete with
the lion. Gentleman, but he could not help wishing that
some sarcastic giant would arise, or that this political
Quixote would tilt against some winihnill, and then his
(Mr. Hoy's) only task would be to write his epitaph,
which should be—

" Proumbit Humi Box,"

(Loud and leng-continued laughing.)
Mr. HUME said that as to the rapectability of the pe-
tition, he should have the Hon. Gentleman to settle that
question with his constituents. This be (Mr. Hume)
knew, that it was signed by the Mayor, and delivered to
him by the Mayor's brother, With respect to his courting
pnpularity, be knew that no instance could be cited in sup-
port of such a.prialtion—(Hear, hear)—end he would give
the Hun. Gentleman, and the Right Hon. Member for
Armagh.(Mr. Goolburn), who so heartily cheered him, a
week to thiuk of an instance. That the Mehl lion. Gen-
tleman shOuldhave cheered the attack that had been made
upon hini dithnot surprise him; for he had ever shown
himself the patron of every abuse that had been brought
forward, and the perpetual and interminable supporter of
every corruption.
Mr. GOITLBURN, as he had been appealed to, would
mention one of the cases where the Hon. Gentlefnan had
not always shown himself impelled lay that feeling for which
lie had been' so ready to take credit. ln citing that in-
stance he would go no further back than to almost the
last transaction of the last Session of Parliament. It was
well known that' he (Mr. Goulburn) had last Session
brought forward a measure for throwing open the trade in
beer. On the filet discussion of that measure, the Urn.
Gentleman had concurred in the propoN;tion ; but in a
subsequent 'stage of the Bill he' had recorded his Vote
against it.--(Hear, hear.)—lt was true, that bet Ween the
first week of the measure, and the period of that vote, the
Hon. Gentleman had become a candidate for Middlesex ;
but Inc Geulburn) would not take on' himself to say
what influence that circumstance might have had on the
trensac t sou. —( Hear.
Mr. :WARBURTON said, that We WM. Friend hail
entertained doubt, on the subject many week' before that
vote wee recorded, and long before he had 114 idea of be-
Coming a candidate for Middlesex.
Me. IltJMi explained,
Mr. MABERLY was able to Mate that the Hen. Mem-
ber'for Middlesex had made up his mind to vote as he did,
before Inc even thought of becoming a candidate fur
Middlesex.
Mr. courxurlN had stated what had occurred on
the Beer'Bill, of course leaving it open to explanation, if
it Was susceptible of it,
Mr. MAIIERL Y explained.
Sir J. NEWPORT deprecated one Han. Gentleman
imputing motives to another Hon. Gentlemen.
The petition was theta ordered to he printed.
BOROUGH OF EVESHAM.

The Marquis of CHANDOS, in rising to make az
motion on this subject, ; said, that the Committee 'ap-
pointed by alehouse had unseated the Members that were
returned, on the ground of bribery; and with this charge
before the Bottle,: he certainly thought that they Were
hound to oonlider whether a new election should he al-
lowed to take place. The evidence before the Committee
had not yet been printed; hut, at all events, it was known
that that. Committee bad decided against the two Members
on the ground of corruption; anti thin, be contended, was
enough to mil for the interference of the House, when it
was' proposed to entrust the borough again with the right
of returning Members, All that I Je 4_t
present asked was,
that a short time should be allowed for the printing of the
evidence, in order that the House might judge for itself;
end he .should therefore move, that the Speaker do issue
his warrant to the Clerk of the Crowe,. to make out a
rupersedeas to the writ that had been issued, for the elec.
tion of two Members for the borough of Evesham.
Lord OEORGE LENNOX lecontled the motion, and
(sailed the attention of the House to a paper signed " Ed.
ward, Protheroe, jun.; in which that gentleman made the
following etatement I plainly acknowledge my desire
to renew our connection. There is no inconsistency in
this. • With you, Gentlemen, I never bad the slightest
emus° of -dissatisfaction : it was with the old system of your
borough, with that unjust aysteni which, after faithful arid
diligent services, accompanied by manly independence and
13.interestedness in every speech • and every vote, left me
no hope of being re-elected, unbent trondeseended to trait°
for my seat with those who bartered your privileges." 'non-
such n declaration as this was made by a gentleman well
acquainted with the transactions of the borough, he thought
that the House lied pretty good evidence before it of what
woe the real 'State of the rase; anti be therefore trusted
that Evesham would be disfranchised, and the represents-
thou given ta some name worthy piece. He begged, how•
ever, to say that be bitneelf personally knew nothing of
Eveshum, nor had he any acquaintance with the two gin.
tlenten against whom the Committee had decided.
• Mr. BOLTON CIIVE was convinced that, although
there Was enough teidence adduced to unseat the two
Membet to who were returned, there was not enough to
diafranchise the borough. • The number of voters in the
borough were 4,26, of whom 14,1 resided in the horough,
and 285 were non-residents; and of this whole number it
Was only it small portion against which corruption had
been proved. • He believed, therefore, that, es Chairman
of that Election Committee, he inui been suite comet in

Mr. ROSS said, that the sitting of pat ocular Item-
hers, and ulterior proceedings againet a borough for bribery
I were two questions of a totally distinct character. The
, Hem Member referred to the cases of Pent.loyn and Camel.
fiord, as precisely similar eases. in them bribery was
proved, and the House was called on not only to suspend
the write, hut to ritsfranchise the boroughs. In Evesham
there were 426 voter'', end of course they did not all vote
for the sitting Members; hut it hail been proved that
every one of the non-resident voters who dill vote were
bribed. Every one of them actually received a bribe.
On these grounds he looted support the motion of loie Noble
Friend fur eitpereeding the writ; which would give the
Heusi, en opportunity to inquire.
Mr. TENNYSON thought no case to justify the mo-
lion had teen made out, either ige the Weide Mover or the
Hem Member who spoke last. Hi pot it to the Houle
whether the case as it stood, could justify 'suspending the
writ. In the other cases referred to, the Chairmen of the
Committee had been instructed to move for the sulprnsion of
the writ--(No,' no)—.hot that hail not been done, unless
at the instance of a Cumtrittee. As the Hon. Member
hail observed, that was not the case with the present Com-
mittee: The House, tom, had agreed the other evening to
issue the writ ; and it would not he very judicious now to
suspend its own order. An the persons convicted ef taking
bribes amounted only to 22 out of 426 vat-re ; they were
ellont.vozere, and funned a very sznell minority. To the
cuee of East Iletford it seas piloted that a very large ma-
jority of the electors cotnpleined of were corrupt. They
were proved to be corrupt, not at the boot election heron,
the investigation; but at several f.srmer elections, and it
eves proved that they were a great mass of corruption.
The House in that ease 'suspended the writ, and enter.
tained a Bill to disfranchise the borough. In the ease
of East Tinton' it was not a single act of bribery and
corrupt on 13 the lest eieetion, hat a gross case extruding
through several elections, and not proved to exist at the
list. There was long-continued corroptison. lisle there
was nothing like that. Ile should object, however, to the
motion, that now there was as Aolonieberetion formed
which had given a distinct and positive pledge to litre,+
tigate the state of the reprzesntation with a view to
amend it, he was disputed to clove full somfidence in that
pledge, and to believe that the Ministers would persevere
in that course. If the borough of Evesham required cor-
rection and excision, he would leave it to the Ministers to
inquire end correct it.—(No, ne.)—When lie saw whence
the present motion moceedeil, and recollected that the
gentlemen who supported it had last session supported the
motion respecting liassetlew, he could out avoid suspect-
ing their motives. The Hon. Gentlemen who spoke last
hail always opposed the motion fur disfrenehiting Eat
Retford, and therefore he mast have aims doubts as to the
consistency of his fresent opinions. if the Hun. Member
wanted to establish another Bassetlew, that itself could be
with him a reason for objecting to the motion, and Would
operate, he hoped, with the Henn to refuse the motion of
his Noble Friend. He witted that one of the first mea-
sures of the new Government wouhl he rescind the Bill
for transferring the franchise to Bessetlaw.—(A
He did not knew say measure by which the Commons
bad se degraded themselves in the eyes of the country as
by their conduct on that oeeesien.—(No, eits.)—Even the
Right lion. Gentleman opposite obtained on credit for hie
conduct on that occasion, and it contributed, lie believed,.
to the overthrew of his Administration. There was now
a prospect of peered Reform, and he was not disposed to
angle with the Noble Lord fur minims in the seine water,
anti he hoped the House would reject the measure.
An Hoe. Mxatexa, when spoke from under the Gal-
lery, contended that a gross ease hail been made out,
which called for the severest censure of the }louse. The
Report of the Committee had turned out the Members on
account of corruption. He did not think that this ques-
tion ought to be deferred, because the general question was
to be discussed ; for they knew neither when the Govern.
tetent would bring forward the subject, nor what measure
it would propose.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL meant, in the few words he
should address to the House, to confine himself to the none
rowed limits. Ile should not' enter Into the general
question of Reform, nor assert that it would be improper
to assent to the motion, hems, the Hoes. Uri already
ordered the writ to issue. there were tasty right," to be
coneilleeed before the House resolved to sumpeed the writ.
An inquiry should be instituted, and evidence received, to
ascertain if the borough of EViShilli were as Corrupt as it
was represented to be. There were many points which
the How ought to investigate; for he had always been of
opinion that the Grenville Act, by the inquiries it insti-
tuted through Committees, frequently screened eases of
bribery, mil prevented them from being so frequently
',nought before the House, as they were before that Act wise
paused. The•opinions of Election Committees were often,
be thought, an obitaele to those immiriee, which the
House was bound to make into eases of corruption. The
question, however, before the Ileuse, was ant whether
an inquiry Amid now take place into the corruption
of the borough of Everhart, but 'whether the issuitig of
the writ should be suipenzird or not ? The circumstances
of the case were these a—That after an inquiry by a Com-
mittee, that Committee had not given the Chsirmee in-
structions to propose that no new writ should issue.
The Mit thing the House had to look at mist be its own
precedents. He bad looked at the precedents quoted by
the lion. Member opposite (Mr. Rosi,) and that Hon.
Geutleman colds! not deny that there were numerous pre-
cedents of the allegation of bribery tussle against Mem-
bers, and yet the writs for those plates lied issued. There
was no instance of a Committee reporting merely against
the Sitting Members, and on that report the House sure
pending the writ. To justify that, there must be some
special report against the electors. It was only said by
some of the Members who composed the Election Com-
mittee that the Cali implied further corruption ; but that
should be nude a matter of special report before
the Home could be able to acts upon it. The precedents,
then, were many in favour of iesuing the writ. At the
same time, he admitted, that the House was not to
be slavishly bound by the precedents of former
times, though it was proper aid right that the
House should Mem, pregame, untees something very
strong could' be urged against it, that the preee-
dents of former times were founded in reason and
justice. By the restthition of the Committee, it appeared
that corruption had been preyed its the borough of Eve-
sham ; but, as his Hon. Friend had observed, it did not
'extend ever the whole borough, though, whether it'were
confined to the twenty-two voters who heel been convicted,
or to•two, or one, it was impossible to say. The Noble
Lord who *amides' OM Motion thought the corruption was
general, and seemed to argue that the House was bound
to disfranchise the borough • but the Chairman of the
Committee seemed to think the entruption - only pirtial,
•and not to deserve diefrenchisemeat. lie Was at a loss to
say, from the report before the House, whether the bo-
rough was se corrupt as to deserve disfranehisimert or
not. Till that was proved, he thought it teas consistent
with reason and precedent, that the noose should not sus-
pend the writ. The House had generillY issued writs as
a matter of course, as conferring en the people the power
of exercising their tights,. That was dee to the electors,
and due tie the Houle, which bad' generally procesiiol on
the prineiple that the House ought so he as complete as
posonble. Principle then, as well as precedent, was in favour
of issuing the writ. To suspend the writ would hoe strong
measure, and one for which lie did not, yet see a sufficient
reason ; Mail any stronger moons than he had yet hears'
should be advanced, and it should appear to be due to the
character of the House, neither he nor hit Noble Friend, Ito
believed, would oppose any obstacles to the motion, He
certainly wished to know ',mutely the state of the case,
but he did not see how that would he promoted by the
motion. In the lest Parliament the writ for East Retforsi
' was suspended for three years, and he recollected that the
Right lion. Gentleman opposite then stated, and lie fully
agreed in the statement, that such a course was not to be
followed,' but attoided. Ile recollected also that hie Noble
Friend, now the Lord Chencellnr, felt and stated the
.strongest objection to that courts of proceeding, anti fre-
quently supported a motion for the issuing of a writ; In
general it would be very inconvenient to withhold the
hitting of e writ, even though an investigation was going
act to pause
on.
upon lie
anybegged lmo the
e ,Hhotlllts House
with
always
dueieti"i td:ienlati briuctiir;:teidootni.ll4l
Sir R. PEEL admitted that the' Noble Lord had placed
the question fairly before the House, and had discussed it
with that tame candour which
Parliamentary conduct ; and he felt confident, from Ott
caeilour of the Noble Lord, that he should convince, the
Noble Lord that a seep ersettens of the writ ought to tette
place. Ile agreed with the Noble Lord that the cols.
sideretims urged by the llen. Member for' Illietehiegley,
should be put out of the qttestion. The House oath;
not to allow any ilecisiott ss to the rtenerd clue
Reform, nor soy dieetteeleo its is litho yrio oe *nue

`►

the borough were diefrancitieed. The que-tion was,
tete:titer the House had evidence before it sufficient
to prevent the issuing of time writ—(liver, hear,)—
k • •
i tl Whether they should call upon the penple who
el e 0 been etirrterpt at tins last* election to send two other
feed:ere to that House? That was the single question
leafiee tee floosie, and the oirjections urged to it wet e three-
feta., yew., there eves the objection of the Pon. Nlein-
Is 'eh,/ SPA ndshire, that to euepend the lawman!' tin writ
tepid!! I,,t,:at a tenalenevto interfere with the provisions of
the Grenville Act, -slimittiutle the punver of E!ection
Gommittese. Alt at erguntent had uo fattneation. The
Feection Commituee had thi.fly to decide between the
silting Member,' arid the notalidates ; and at far as they
were concerned, the el of the Cenunittee was find.
If the liouee were to inteetere with the ettspension of the
writ, that term's' not he dealing with the &vision of the
Eleetion Cninmitter. e The 'quilt of that Committee '
related to the sitting Netlike's, Lord Kennedy end Sir
Charles Cockerel) ; hut the Committee had also made a
special report, as the Noble Lord had Mated. The ordi-
nary report was, that Loral Kennedy and Sir Chitties
Ceekerell were not duly elected. That was the ordinary,
report on which their exclusion was founded. Awe:IAA
to that, however, was another report, which
.etated that
Sir Charles Cockerel), or big agent, had been guilty of
lathery, and that veveral of the elect-ere had suffered them-
" .eadees to he !Hilted. That was the sr chi' report. The
Glenville Act dial mitt maktethe special report binding en
the Hawse; but it said, that if the Committee appointed
So determine the rights of sitting Met:there shalt imefftlet
its Ch tirmett to make a gpvcial repair' to the Alotte, the
iloutte may conform orelitagree (rein the resolution of the
Committee, amid make retch n ()trier a' it liked, If the
ILaria:itt adopted any ortlevor tehmeti to adopt it, contained
hi Hoy special report, it would only he acting in enit-
toe Lathy w ith the egrineip:e laid down by the How ef tan-
trieurteeeentl, therefore, -he cowaidered the tibleetion of
tluiHon.,)iemher of no
,fittee. "'The teeet argumetat was
that irf. the Nasife'Lord, whit had referred to precedents ;
tint mated, in thigh IH9 noted, that, these precedents,
elanmigh generally foonded in reason, were net to ise
'slavishly followed. Ile would put it to the Noble Lord, if
true precedents he should quote teetildeuii make the Noble •
Lord adroit that the writ ought not, to ie'ue. Two prece•
rteretta might be referred toe-those of Pentyhtt and Camel-
, !tine!, In the Penrylin cape, the epeeist' report steed that
and. Mr. had been guilty of corrupt price
tient, and Henry Parker anti eevegenher elegem hail retied
„
w
bribes. to induce them to gteeeine vmes. There teas no
imputation of general corruption. There were two per-
emu 'accused, of ideertipting bribery, and seven AWES ac-
cused of receiving bribes;; eted it was thought by the
House, of Commonteihet , it teas sufficient to suspend the
wait that onlittight petvems had been guilty of bribery. In
the ease of Evesham, though there was no epetial, ttport.
it was stated that twerityett4 'persona received bribes. If
in Pent hen lbw e evere only eight petanne bribed, end if,
a'u it could not he dottitted.that twenty-twit were bribed in
Illeeetoun, noglit the Ihnirte,etne to conclude that the iteuing
of the writ ought to be enspended in the care of Evetthant
an in the case of Petallyn ? The House elemid• tonsider
that the motion, won net • to suspend time wt it indefinitely,
but only till the evident% shook) be laid before the theme
1111 the rase of Cstnielloni, what was the special report ?
Stewart hami acted in a corrupt remitter, and
'wen guilty of bribery, and was ineepable of sitting ; and
that •--, attil Inerother elestear, had corruptly endeavoured
to erotetre the return of that Member.. In this case there
were only foot voters renew, anal yet the !rouse of Com-
mono had suspended the writ., There was no general allege.
t' oh of corm ohne Here then were two preeedents ofeusperel.
int; the issue of the writ---clear cases, end would not the
House, therefore, suspend issuing the writ Ism Evesham,
,
ire wnten.tweratyetwo voters hail been guilty of corrupt
practices,
.and had emitted bribes, only till the House haul
read ihreeVialenee ? The 4oble Lord must see that the
precedents were not in his favour. If the Noble Lord would
reject precedents, and try the case by the principles of
to settee end triton, he would probably come to the
'temclueione that the Writ ought not to be issued,. Could
there he any doubt on the subject? One Hon. Gentleman
hetai'etated tliat'eoittption had been the ieveterzte prac-
tice, of the berasugh tor fifty vette. In his opinion, among
the sesevoterit preetiee Was general. They had the
400, of an Ilsno :Vomiter, who bail ;dated, that
belied retimptithed his connection. with etre barough bee
o wee I.s ,totild not .cetteientiomiely consent to the demands
Vor (line tratale.on hing. •°riut was in evidence before the
. Mete ; and did not, then, good arose and reason say that
the writ ought 'to 'be .sitepended ? Was it in fact possible
to leteiteto under *itch circumstances? Thellon. Gentle-
ten 'Miler(' said, let the: llousetemsider:tlaat we have note
Aihninietration pledged to Reform, mut . Itt it leave to
that time task of -inquiring. Admitting -th at we have suoli
un Atheiniettailon, ,•Int meet deity that the Gevern-
meet was competent to inquire into all the peculiarities of
resident anti ormtesoterse Wet it fit that the House should
delegate to the Ministers the propriety of deciding the
elective franchise tsf this borough, and of determining, to
u at a phrase of the lion. Alemher, which itemell remarked.
of the propriatroVextirting Abe berough itself? If it went
se he 4lone, let it be done by nil inquiry instituted at that
, bar, mei not "wee by: a private inquiry instituted by hi.
iAlajeany's Wild:gee. The Government was not fit to in•
stitute cud, an hanuiry—it meld not reveler evidence, and
het did not Ittlinir any ;den more likely to be productive au
bajoetiet to the patties, than for time Government to under-
take the inquiry. On the ground, then, of the Grenville
Aeteeetni the score' of preeetiente, and on the principles
gmf geed rierise and ereutoreend justice, it would he wier to
miler it euseseterion of the writ till the evidence wee letfore
the, Houle. With , reference to the arse-fors zeal with
which the lion. and Loewe! Gentleman taunted him, lie
cow& ett te'lle was. nut olmoxinus to the Ilan. and Learned
eateetleman's months. Tint lion. and Leerned,GentLe
Ta.ition was not opposd by him—on the contrary,
he sop; opted that motion, and net widest with touch
tele tvidelicet than others, both itt the osiers of Penrhyti
end. that of-East Itetford, that the writ aught not to issue,
le Ined always! contended 'that the franchise wart given for
•u imultitc ptirpooe, end !het the House hed, a right to divpose
. ..of it wheat that would benefit the ,public. fie bad Mittel
tilt pert iu any former debate that rhombi preclude him on
easy fit oettadon from etreotfertimig a franchiett from some
eat:lgit borough to lilt mingluute In the Penrhyn case,
itt. haul been trilling to trawler that franchise to Manch-s-
-4.1,4 Ile had Teetered, Jointed( at fell liberty to give the
trentddet to great,tovens. die teat not, however, disposed
to i;nter into tile. general question. He would only ask,
whither it tteaulai be wive, after the allegation which had
bend made h, the Meinbeis of the Committee, to entrust
again the la sit chisel to a boreugis which Ind &biased it ?' litt
slialeset ean oat the Houle: iu .decide that it should not be
4ortatted,-.4,10 WR.Ip4 the spiteitien; but to decide that
it'Woultewat give the trust till it heti seen the evidence.
Lied A1.111004' .agreed with his Noble Friend and
the theist Hem Gentleman, that this question was to be
decided on the ovum ground of pr.omt; but that pre-
vedettes were not to be ',lavishly. followed. The Iloitee most
,decide if preeedente authorised the suspension of the write
and it was a matter of coins importenee that the House
gammasl not make a new precedent without slue oonsider-
ntion. lie did not think that *haven:micas quoted by
ult. flight Hen. Gentleman justified the suspension of the
lit. lie differed from bim, trews°, in, the two geese.
eaeits he lead quoted, bolt the Committee' had reported
ereettst the election, In threspreseet, cage, the Report of
rim Committee was wintined to calamine elle Members.
1.110 )light floe. (iies)tistmos :said that Members of the
Committee compleimted of tineentreption I. extended to-
, the ejectors but' that Was only the opinion olindividtud
Members, are the Committee. tleeided ageing a special re.
pos in the ether roes quested by the Bight lion. Oen.
thrintte the cemetietee; had nettle special reports ; but in
those cases where stewed reports were nee made, and Only
tho,ttitting Men-liana were unseated, time. Manse had never
thought to train.• e! the writ, .. It was -net rieettruity for
him to quote pie (Talents ef the kite! from. Sikg 4010101 bl ;
they %v .re an entnereue, tight cry Member rotiet know it
was, curttiuugily cipltcyn;:oy for sittieg Members tort lie un-
heeled by the,repor t of tile Committee, without te writ
being etimpoteled. Ile (lid nest . rousidcr it, of any. coolie-
' twelve! whether. the Writ were 8001PaPintl or net ; and if it
Welt the nlt,,ititiu (dale lluit tliatit 11110tih) be euspendiel,
he for one Amalfi teat, oppose the litileptU)Sipil. In doing
11th, cote tidy et wee he opiaiote that Ithey ;ate
iteatimet paeceiiesset, mei it teas peither, desirable nor neees-
eery Alert 'the Hew, "korad totafee any new, preeed,ente
tied olt vs! an y greet nent*4.loe ifiStkilig it, and, hv uwlicti
OM pat lid, nut tow, taint Any injury .Fooled accrue if it
evete, withheld for a short time. If, therefete,, the ileuse
were diepogrel to withhold the. writ, he should not oppose
the mosoore,
Au Hoe, Ajx,mugni who was a ,Itlember. of ,the
cametaittee, eeplaievi that the Committee hail agreed to
make 14 i.Cpart tiirlilas tot tb t ,k4ada by the Ceammittee of
ee lietfunel. fielerequeetty that deebriee yes trice!,
ausai tt. (:'enenittee were Neel)), divided, wheit the; Chatt
„
meat eeve its seining trite sit (mien. Of iii erdinaty report.
;Iluete tower wet a speri,il report rerolved ott without its
• - l','"4l"Va to itittito44oe t." 4 writ. 101)01,0 that due
tee the evide!ipt, awl not *lndio') darn.
I 1 ,1A stole. teterned It, a, plate which had been
jeeilte alt tub fOrtol,4oo, %Yelp as einropt
the eieeteal, mod ought to he prrniehed. He did not
elieve why the llott-hferether "bottle be so reody tp ewe,
bute improper motitel fit other
,Hote Menden 0010$6 it
~owikkftleet po 41,i,tobe.}10.1)ttu much diesppoioteel,
" teiiustre fie Wee not tite bitting Member for 131riningtieni.

He was fully as independent and as upright as the Ilon.
Member, ay.ti had no motives of which he was ashamed for
his conduct. It was said that there were oply tWenty:-two
electors convicted of bribery out of 4ba ; of the reason
was, that only tkenty-twb were brought forward. The
object of tlu Who opposed the Members was only to
ttristat them, anti they brought (onward no more evidence
than MS necessary for that purpose. MI the cite:ter*
who were brou-ght forward were convicted of bribery ;
and if more were not convicted, it was because mere were
not brought forward. That was sufficient to establish the
e at, anti he should support, the Noble Ltu motion.
Mr. TENNISON explained, that what he meant re-
specting the Hon. Gentlemen opposite was, that he sus-
pected that it wis their littentibn, which he could not
approve, rot to trattst'er the franchise to a large town.
Mr. ..101.1t.'; MARTIN said a few wor,is in favour, as
?ve Metelirood, of the staying of the writ, bee iese iSere
could he no doubt that gross corruptiott bad 'um very gr.
beral in the borough of Etreain.
Lorti'MOllPEril, following the course which bin duty
Prescribed to him, could not, with the most sanguine
wishes for Reform, fee) himself warranted in voting for
the proposition of the Noble Marquis (Chemins.) Ile
had, in the course of the debate on the East Retford
shown the view Inc took on questions of this iiature ; but.
there was. this peculiar dilreitnee h. the regent case—that
although the Cotrattitt!e had reported the Al mhos to be
guilty
.of Ittilery and corruption, they made no pima
thkt the electors were also corrupt and unfit to exercise)
their rights. The report of the Committee did nut iltebl-
pate the berough, althot.;li it declatee. • the 'election void
from bribery; and ilietvore thought that they were
not, es in the vet RetfOril, called on to exercise
that jut‘licift Part of their functions, which might have
Ittieh called into exercise by a different species of report.
The resolution of supersedeas which the House wits now
called on_ to assert, was, as far as he could understand, pro•
(limed by a division of iMNitiiiiiniong the Commhtee with
rcapect to the report. The Committee, however, having
reported As they ditl,l4ett absolved front the bee wiry of
adoptingianPulteridMPasure; and be was the his dissa-
tisfied with that resolution, because the ereat iluestinn of
geherel Refortit would so amen be determined either in that

Pat liament or the next, which WbUld doubtless be immviii-
aiely called together if tre present refused its assent to the
tneastiretrof ttiormation which would be proposed to it.
—(bear, hear.) Fir these reasons, and because he felt
that the cause of staying the writ was not warranted by
Hoy precedent, or called for by any extraordinary ciretup-
stances, he should vote for the itnmediate issue of the writ.

Mr. WARBURTON could see no advent ige they were
likely to reetiee from suspending the issue of the writ,
and h should certainly not vote against it. In a ease
of much the soma kind—that of Stockbridge—he found
opinions stated on the subject by a celebrated Mt miter of
the House of that day, which en perfectly coincided with
hit own, and were, withal, so perfectly applicable to the
case, that he should take leave, as they were very short,
to read tint nto the House. g. If," said that Hon. Mem..
her, " 1 twee the candidate pay ti e money down on that
tab'e, en I the 4letems take it up, yet I would not vote fur
e airf a o is merit of the boiongli : for I ask you, how
you can take the franchise away front one or two phut.,
when you refine every proposition for a general Reform ?"
And he adds, that it is better the abuse should become so
owing that the House would be compelled to put •an
end to it. This was the language held thirty years ago
on this subject, awl he thought it still worthy of adoption
as a principle.
Mr. BANKES thought the opinions min-acid by the
Hon. Member for Brideort so extraordinary, that they
did nit require much observation on his part. He would
merely say, that if generally adopted, they would go to
the extension and eneettragement of every conceivable
abuse in the system of representation.--(Hear.) In his
opinion, the arguments relating to the course to be pur-
sued with respect to the borough of Evesham lay in a
very narrow compass. They had been very happily Oared
by the Right Hon. Baronet; cod his precedents of Camel..
fiwel and Penrhyn seemed to he so consonant with com-
mon sense, that he should pot venture to attempt to add
any further reason fer his agreeing with the motion of
the Noble Marquis for staying the issue of tke writ.
Sir 0. WARRENDER was always happy to agree
with the lion. Member for Dorsetshire (Mr. Minket);
hut, as tin elector of the vet), borough whose rights were
now under disenesion—(fetughter, and hear, hear, hear,)
—he felt himself called on to say a few words in its de-
fence—(Hear)--in defence of the 141 electors against
whom no imputation was laid—and in defence of more
than 100 of the out-voter', comprehending a vast propor-
tion of the respectable gentlemen in the neighbourhood,
and in the county of Worcester, who, like himself, had
taken no part in the late proceedings. Ile was a friend
to Reform ; hut he considered the present case offered no
precedent for the suspension of the issue of the writ ; be-
cause, as it had been already well observed by a Noble
Lord, in all cotes where the report of the Committee on
the petition declared that the Members were guilty of
bribery, bet found no case to report on with respect to the
borough, the writ immediately issued. In the present
case it appeared that the Committee had not, on the mini-
nation of the evidence, felt thenwelvee werranted in de-
claring the corruption so g. neral as to induce them to re.
commend the disfranchisement of the independent voters,
in coneequence of the offences of a few; and be trusted
that, under such circumstances, the House would not
sanction the adoption of a dangerous precedent.—.-f Hear.)
Mr. MARERLY did not intend to take any part in the
debate ; but ut he was connected with the borough of
Eveshom, tin ough oust of the candidates, be felt bound to
ally that he would not have suggested that proceeding if he
had been aware of there being any irregularity.

Mr. G, 13ANKES declared 1,1% ileiermimition to vote
for the proposition of the Noble lklarquil, and defended
himself from any, imputation of Inconsistency, in cow..

quence Of his having acted differently in the 'Case of East
Iletford, by contending that the Committee had not in
that case gone as far as they Might have done, or shnuld
have done. In every ease, however, if there was a briber,
there must be a bribee, and it was therefore idle to argue
on the difference between a report of the Committee, at-
trihuting bribery to' the Members, and not reporting cor-
ruption on the put of the electors.

After a few 1-volds won Mr. Twiss in favour of the
int;don,

The Marquis of CHANDO sitA, that Ware the
House came to a decision on this question, he wished to
ask the Hon. Member for Birchingley (Mr. Tennyson)
on what grounds he considered his (Chandoe) conduct
to suspicion?—(Hear.)--.The Ilcuie would do
him th, justice to recollect that he had, on every 00CA•
lion, endeavoured to preserve consistency in the mime
of politics which his judgment induced hint to adopt;
and he hail at all times laboured to preserve it free from
the suspicion of insincerity. He thought he was also
entitled to soma explanation from the Hon. Alember for
Staffordshire (Mr. Littleton), with respect to the charge
of a new-born zeal in the cause of Reform. He (Lord
Chandos) had always advocated the course which, to his
mind, seemed the best, and ha should be glad to know
how long the Hon. Member bad himself exhibited a zeal
for Refornt.—(llesr.)

Mr. TENNYSON felt obliged to the Noble Lord for
allowing him an opportunity to explain any expression
which might have given bim cause of offence. He at all
time+ entertained great respect for the Noble Lord's con.
duet, both in the House and elsewhere ; and he could as-
sore the Noble Lord, that nothing was more foreign to his.
wishes than to offer him any offence. What he add was,
not the Noble Lord's conduct was suspicious, but that be
suspected the objects of those who wished fur this delay,
as being intended to administer the same remedy to the
borough of Evesham as they bud already adopted with rt.
gard to East Hetford, and to snake it another Bassetlaw.
Mr. LITTLETON, it+ he also had been called on by
the 'Noble Lord to explain the meaning of his expressions,
hogged to observe that he did nut intend- to offend thefetl-

ings of the Noble Lord, but he might be permitted to say,
that during the eighteen years' be bed held a seat in that
Houle, he had invariably assented to propositions fur He-
form, and had zealously supported.the motion of a Noble
Lord (Lod J. Wiesen) for giving Members to Leeds, My-

mingl;am, ctna filarichestet:: He had also expressed his
willingm as to rapport the general motion of the Noble
Lord ett the Wile subject, if the Noble Lord consented to
make a slight alteration in his resolutions, and he re-
gre4fel that the Noble Lord 'was not present to confirm
that statement. He could tell the Noble Mai-gals that his

seal the cause of 'Worm was nut the birth yoterday.
Lie. bad expressed his ourptise that the Noble
Ahrquis's opinions differed so much. from those they had

k►gard before on siniiler oeemions; and he again wive ut-
ulna; to his regrikt th.it it had given the Noble Aleninie

any olfence.
The motion tyaa then put and carried without opposi-
titm, linsl;,tite SPY/I'l,lllft ohk,crved that, in anticipator' of
the dectaiuri of' the Howe, be -had. dratted Ihe-wtit,; to. be
prtvold, and it, vow, vitet hit signature, which
would he apiligtfted 44 itp,rom*,

GENIWA t,
JoiiN CAMPBELL, in rlaing pnrauant to his
notice to rnov.e for leave to bring in a to establish a
General Begister InrA bottas and Inatrurnenta affecting
Real Property in gatgland and. Wale., Raid that the plan
wee in conformity with the recommendation of the Law
Commiasioeers. The itate of tide country, with respect
to tie transfer of real property, bad long excited much
surprise and complaint. In many eases estates were pur-

chased, which, at the death of the vender, were claimed
by some heir in tail, and it wee frequently found that pro•
perties sold by the app trent myner were, by the limbic-
tion of some long-hidden wrested from the pur-
chaser. All this might be avoided by an alive for
general registry. Various expedients had been de-
vised at %whims times to remedy the existing evils,
One of those expedients was the purchase fur long
terms--for terms of eight hundred or a thousand year..
This, however, was a clumsy contriVanea: And, besides,
not half the ntates in England had terms .attached to
deem ; for it was only where mortgages had been effected
that they were operative. They, besidis, gave oc-
casion to three or four titles being sometimes advanced t
the same lard. There „
waseleriafitteAy in ascertain,
ing what the terns ti t;: practice was likewisie at-
tended orth great expense. It was hoped that some of
these mils might be corrected by the Ecclesiastical Com-
mission. He hail a great respect for that Commission,
and he hoped soon to see among the results of their labours
the establishment of one Court of Probate fur the whole
kingdom; a measure that would be exceedingly advan-
tageous. lb was a great admirer of the wisdom of our
ancestors f lint he than sure, that if our ancestors were
alive, they would feel that different -cireumetanees re-
pined different measures. Because there were no regiss
ter* when few prisons could read, was that a reas'on why
then. should be no registers at ..pres'eht? So far beck,
however, us the reirt of nenry VIII., the Statute of En-
rolment passed, which served as a register, although
clumsily. Since that period registers bad been established
fur judgments; registers for annuities; registers for ships,
Was the House aware that in Scotland there had been a
register for above two hundred years ? It was established
in 1617, and bed been productive of the happiest effects.
In the beeiening of the last century a register had
been introduced inn') Ireland: There Was also a
register in Middlesex, and another in at cbitnty of
York; comprehending a fifth of the Opolation
if the island. There nimre reenters in Germany, in
Fr mess, in America, and in the English coloniei. The
next objection that had been suggested to the plan was its
expellee, If the offices connected with the proposed re
gister were to be sinecures, be would not recommend their
establishment. lint economy would be found to Aurae
terise his plan ; it would create no office which team not
efficient, and no officer would he overpaid. The expence
of a general register would lie less then the expense of the
registers in Middlesex and Yorkshire. The effect of a ge-
neral register would be an immense saving to the public.
Information would be obtained in a few minutes, and fur
ten shillings, which it now required several weeks to dis-
cover, at an expense of perhaps of three or four hundred
pounds. The great evil at present was, that every tran-
saction wasrendered atorwe expensive and dangerous. The
next objection to the measure was, that it would occasion
disclosures. But it must be recollected that the register would
have nothing to do with the past, but only with the fu-
ture. lied any inconvenience resulted from disclosures
in Ireland, in Scotland, in Middlesex, in Yorkshire? It
hail been said, that such disclosures would affect com-
mercial credit? But a most respect ible body of mer-
chant!, had declared their conviction, that the mercan-
tile world suffered more from a false appearance of
property than from any other cause. Disclosures, there-
fore, would, in that respect, be beneficial rather than
injurious. Let it be recollected whist extensive disclo-
sures might be obtained at Doctors' Commons for a
shilling. The plan of registry which he intended to
propose was so plain and simple, that no danger could re-
sult train it. That person who suffered from not regis-
tering had only himself to blame. The lowest degree of
care was sufficiet.t. If an agent was negligent, the prin-
cipal would have a remedy against him ; and if the fault
was in the office, the injury would be made good to the
individual. What he proposed was, that instead of de-
tached register offices, there should be one general office
in the metropolis for the whole of England and Wales. The
easy communication from all parts of the country by post
would render that a very eligible plan. For the informa-
tion of country solieitnrs, he would observe that they
would not have occasion to employ London agents. They
might transact their business with the register office by
post, and without the aid of any intermediate person.
There were two modes in which the registry might take
place; either a memorial of the deed, or a duplicate of the
deed, might be deposited in the Register Office. Ile pre-
ferred the later. At present there were no means of
knowing what debts were due to the Crown. An estate
might now he purchased, and might turn out not to be
worth a farthing, in consequence of a debt of many years
standing before due upon it to the Crown. He proposed
therefore, that every obligation of that nature to the
Crown should he registered. As to the indexes, the sub-
ject was so technical, that he would not enter upon it;
except to observe, that by the proposed plan all the deed*
which respected any particular piece of property might
be seen at a glance. A sort of ledger account would
be kept fur that purpose. There was one point of con-
siderable importance. It was, whether the notice of
en unregistered deed should prevent the party whose
deed was registered from having the benefit of that re,
gistry ? He meant to propose that the party should not
be so deprived. On the subject of pedigrees be wished to
say a ward. At present there was frequently a difficulty '
in tracing a pedigree. No register was kept of births;
only of baptisms ' • and of those only as respected Members
of the Church of England. It appeared to him to lie of
the last importance that there should be, not an ecelesias•
tics!, but a civil register of all births, marriages, and
deaths.—(Hear, hear.)—Such a proposition would not
form any part of the present measure ; but the present
measure would afford great facilities for the formation of
such a measure. If the measure which he was about to
propose were agreed to, the register to which he had just
alluded might be added to it; and the whole be carried
oa under one roof. The authorities in favour of such a
proposition weregreat. The illustrious name of Sir Matthew
Hale, and of many other high legal authorities, might
be quoted to show the evils which resulted from the pre-
sent system. It was true that an illustrious individual of
the present day, a man whom he must always respect and
venerate—he meant Lord Eldon—had expressed himself
disinclined to the measure. Bnt be must own that he
would rather listen to the Noble and Learned Lord's opi-
nion of what the law was, than of what it ought to be.
That Noble and Learned Lord had all his life paid so much
attention to what the law was, that he bad hardly any
time to consider what it should be. The measure mint
not lie partially adopted. To give it a fair trial, it must
be tried as a whole. If it were tried only in counties,
it would not answer. It had been objected against
the measure that it would change the system of
conveyancing, and alter the habits of the profession.
It had been supposed that the measure would be opposed
by the attorneys. For the members of that branch of
the profession he had great respect ; believing that in most
cases they were honourable, liberal, and enlightened men.
But he did not think they need be under any panic
in consequence of the proposed measure " Othello's oc-
cupation" should be " gone." lf, however, their profits
should be diminished by it, let it be recollected that those
would be benefitted from whose pockets those profits at
present came. The expense of looking out a title under
the present circumstances was frequently enormous,. He
knew an instance in which the vendor of an esmte, having
engaged to prove the title, and having found that he could
not do so without going to a prodigious-expence, was
liberally told by the attorney for the purchaser, that if he
(the vendee) would give hint (the attorney) the estate, he
would find the title.—(A laugh.)—He was sorry, how-
ever, to say that that he did not hi lieve the reduction of
the profit* which flowed from the present system would
be so great as was in some quarters apprehended. The
improvement must, from its nature, be gradual : and he
feared that a great part of the existing generation would
pass away before its beneficial effects would become strik-
ingly apparent. After apolog zing to the House for the
imperfect outline which he hail sketched of his proposed
measure, the lion. and Learned Gentlemeniil forconcludedeitia.l
moving—" That leave be given to bring in a h
Wishing a General Register for all Deed* and Instruments
affecting Real Property, for England and Wales."
Sir E. B, SUGDEN disclaimed any intention of offer-
ing a captious" optimisation to the proposition of his Ilon.
and Learned Friend ; although he would take a future op-
portunity of stating in what he differed in opinion front
him, He now,
le
wished to askhilhm. and
s Learned
own et
responsibility,d tllh' ever,
or r
whether'evriebrought
it htal de beenrne aspurreev previously
soil;
submitted to his Majesty's Government ?

Mr. CAMPBELL had brought in the Bill with the
concurrence of the present Lord Chancellor ; but not as n
measure to which Government was at present pledged.
Government was not at present determined whether to
support or oppose the measure. The measure was, in' the
first instance, brought forward by him LI a Member of the
House of Commons ; but with the full concurrence and
approbation of the Lord Chancellor.
Sir E. B. SUGDEN observed, that the Commission
appointed to inquire into the laws affecting rest property
was authorised to investigate, but not to originate any
measure thetittielver. It was the bounden duty of Govern.
ineni to consider whether the rneaseres recommended by
the Commission ought. to be adopted ; end if they thought
so, to originate them on the responsibility of the Law
Officers of the Crown.

Sir C. WETHEBILL 'loped that when the Bill came
to be discussed, the Houle would have the beuefit of the
presence of every County Member Who ruight prefer haVing

the ti ie deeds of his estate in his own house, rather than
in the recondite mausoleum of parchments which his Hen.
and Leaned Friend proposed to erect. He trusted that
every County Member especially, and that the Hriuse at
large. te, uld hesitive before they edop.ed what, he could
a a but think, was a proposition pregnant with the greatest
mischiefs. Ilia would not, have risen on the present
occasion, however, het for hit Honourable and
Learnt d rrienel'e ambidektraus ailusion to Lotd Wan.
His Hop, and Learned :Friend certainly paaeJ that Noble
and Learned Lord wish the onethand„lo thea.heknocked
him rio,wn wit)a the otl;er. . The vocabulary of praise Was
exbanstal on that noble and venerable Oben in the tirst
instance, lint then it was added that he was so learned in
the law as it stood, that lads mind was not strong trough,
or liberal enough, to consider of what amendment it was
susceptible. The Noble and Learned Lord was certainly
not a hasty reOrmer of the law, Itemise he knew what
the law was ; hot there was a class of persons in the
country who teished hastily to change the law, because
they did not know what the law was.—(Hear.) Those
persons had not had tptite to much experience of
the law as the Noble and Learned 1., rd. He f Sir C. W.)
had a weal respect for ail tle members of the various law
commissiona ; but with ell that respect, he must take the
liberty of raying that be could nut put their knowledge
and experience of the law into competition with the know-
ledge and experience of the Noble and Learned Lord. With
respect to the proposed measure, the present was not the
proper time fur discussing it. Otherwise, he should be
disposed to ask who was to build the immense fabric, the
construction of which was contemplated by his Hon. and
Learned Friend ? It would lie necessary to have remorse
to the assistance of the B ,ard of Works in building su
enormous an establishments He thought that the plan 'Elf
a general revisal( i•elrer Wald be On these grouhda
therefore, he should Iteitintte before he gavie his concur•
retire to the plan proposed by his Helmut ab!e and Learned
Friend. He gave his Hon. and Learned Friend the ful-
kilt reedit fur the ingenious and pleasant speech he had
rmade in introduciee the measure.—:t speech in which he
had attained an object not often attained by lawyers—
mil it of making a leg rd subject intelligent to al, and a
dry subject the means of much pleasantry, thought his
pleasantry, by-the-bye, consisted ci,iefly of some goodly
diction.--(A laugh.) With these facetise, however, he
had inclined the House to lend a favour able ear to his
measure, though it certainly had not met with the appro-
bation of some of the highest names in the ptofesnion;
and he (Sir C. Wetherell) might say with Lord Eldon,
that though evils did cettiinly exist at present in the
mode of transferring and mottling the titles of real pro-
perty, the evils which the proposed system might intro-
duce, might probably lie at least equivalent to those from
which the owners of lands were at present suffering. He
could not, therefore, give his concurrence to the measure.
Sir C. FERGUSSON might perhaps feel with the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman opposite, that it was a
little extraordinary that a numsore, introduced by a gen.
denten who was a Commissioner, to inquire into the I VW*
regulating real property, and who was at the same time a
Member of that House, should not have received the con-
currencoof his Majesty's Government; but will, whether
it had that advantage or not, it should most unques•
tionably have his best snpport. There was, however, no
wonder that the plan should have wanted the approbation
of Lord Eldon, for it was a plan of Reform, and that
Noble lord was no reformer, as was clearly proved by
the fart, that he had presided for twenty-five years in the
Court of Chancery, and yet, though the alarms of that
Court had been so manifest that no man now ventured to
defend them, that Noble Lord had not once in the whole
course of his judicial career proposed a single reform, but
seemed to have found the whole of the law of that Court
to be the perfection of human reason. The tneasure now
proaosed fully deserved the support of every men in that

Mr. HUME said, that whether the Hon. and Learned
Member who introduced this measure did it as a Com-
missioner, with the authority of the Government, or as
an individual Member of that House, be was equally en-
titled to credit for his exertions, and for the learning and
ability he had so usefully directed to this subject.—(Hear,
hear.)—The measure was one of very necessary reform,
and it had his (Mr. flume's) support. Having heard much
praise of the register system of S •otland, be wished to
see that system introduced here. He trusted, therefore,
that the House would not be led away by the opposition
of the Hon. and Learned Member for Boroughbridge, nor
by his fearful pictures of a metropolitan mausoleum of
deeds. in spite of what had been said on a former occa-
sion, he (Mr. Hume) wished to have law so intelligible
that everybody could understand it—he amongst the rest.
—( A laugh.)—The lawyers might wish it otherwise, but
the statement of theirs, that law was and must remain
science, amounted to this—that the people mull not and
should not do without them. Now he wished to do with-
out them altogether.—(A laugh.)—He should support the
measure of a general register.
Sir JAMES SCARLETT observed, that this was not
a fit moment for the discussion of the merits of such a
measure as that of a general register: he should, there-
fore, abstain from enteting into the details of the quistion,
but would give his opinion decidedly in favour of the
measure, as far as he had been able to consider it at pre-
sent. He should reserve his opinion on the details till
the proper time came for the discussion ; and all he should
now state was his opinion that, when it had been fully dis-
cussed, It would be found worthy of the ability and learn-
ing of the gentlemen who bad devoted their time and
talents to its formation.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said, that the ex-
invasions employed by an Honourable Member with re.
spect to Lord Eldon were rob Oily not intended to apply
to that Noble Lord alone, hut to the other membera of the
profession, for lawyers were not generally considered a re-
forming tribe.—(A laugh.) But that very circumstance
gavg additional value to this measure, proposed as it was
by a lawyer of great eminence, and having the support of
many of the most learned members of the profession.—
(Hear,
hear.) He should be surprised if, on the fullest
discussion of the subject, the opinions of the best educated
men, lawyers ay not lawyers, were not found to he in its
favour.—.(Hear, hear.) It was no objection to the mea-
sure that it had not obtained the declared support of the
Government, for it did not require authority, founded as it
was upon sound good sense, and upon the necessity of the !
case.---(Hear, hear.) 1 he measure, however, if autho-
rity were wanted, had the authority of the lion. and
Learned Gentleman who introduced it, himself a very
learned lawyer, of the farmer and present Lord Chancel-
lor, and certainly of a majority of the present Govern-
nient. That fact ought to relieve the lawyers from the
imputations that had been cast upon them. Suppose the
necessary calls on the attention of the Government at the
present moment hail prevented them from considering it so
that they could not give it their declared support, still the
House were obliged to the Hon. and Learned Member for
bringing it for Ward, and he was certain the Government
would do nothing to stifle the measure, even if they did
nut support it ; but he hoped it would lie found they
could give it their full and cordial support.
Mr. PRESHFIELD defended the branch of the pro-
fession
to which he hail the honour to belong from the
imputation about their fear of their occupation being gone.
He was sure that the attorneys and solicitors were as ready
as others to sacrifice their personal interests when the
public welfare required them to do so, and Hon. Members
had no right to 'suspect them of opposition to this or any
other measure of Reform tili they had declared themselves
opposed to it.
Mr. CAMPBELL did not mean to assert that any par-
ticular portion of the profession was opposed to measures
of Refirrn, and, indeed, he was bound to say that the
Cknninissioners hail received the most able support from
members of all the branches of the profession.—(Heee.)
It was his ambition to improve the law of the country
rather than to seek promotion, preferment, or additional
advancement. He hoped the Government would support
this measure, for without that support it would not suc-
ceed. He wished the Bill to be printed and circulated,
on as to give an opportunity fur everybody to consider and
offer what objections to it he thought proper, and that
the second reading should be put off to a distant day.—
Leave granted.
COURT OF CHANCERY. •
Sir E. B. SUGDEN, in rising to call the attention of
! the House to the administration of Justice in the Court of
Chancery, reminded them the when he was in office he
had given notice to bring forward a measure relative to
the imperfect administration of Justice in that Court. As
he
sonhtaod noteintroil retiredoc from
introduce that measure, ooffice,
lie was n•
which
intoP:lrt
e
hands perhaps of abler men, but certainly nut of men
inure zealous than he in the discharge of so important a
duty. Had he continued in office, be should have pos-
sessed the power to introduce a measure which he verily
believed would have been of great benefit to the suitors of
the Court of Chancery, for he had had the honour to be-
long to as virtuous a Government—(Laughter)—as ever
existed.... 4 Government that he was sure would have put
down' whatever abuses were clearly shewn to exist, with.
out regard to the interests of friends or foes. He felt that
he should have received their full support, end on that
any
pmorttail:uersilaeouflitli hsaivmeilraerlikndedih, be should ive!it his sup..ad lie brought in hie Bill.
g
Whenever the present Government should bring forward
poet. He must say, that the subject of the' Court of
Chancery had never been fairly met, but hottl.ilways been
used for party and political purposes. in what he Was

about to Atte he wished it to be understood that lie aid I
hot pledge the late Government; but be would now men-
tion that lie had been desired to undertake the introduc- '
thin of certain plans of Reform. Ile did tin lertake them;
but before they tumid he matured am! presented to the
Government for the expreseien of their opinion upon
them they had gone out of office. Ile would
eey wh.st seemed to him a proper course to
alloet. lie wofild eh% dowli et patent plate* now
Veld in reversifin—g iniiinnessoletaike•l from feci pail be,
the suitors of the 'Court, eapecialty when paid to persons
ivho took no part in the administration of Justice. The
Lord Cuanctllor, too, held at this mutnent a branch o
, income ameutiting to 10,000/. a-year, delisted tram fees
paid by the suitors. Front the amount of tie ee fees lie
would strike off 2 000/. a year, and add that sum to the
amount of the fixed salary of the elate : that would be a
great relief to the suitors. Another evil at present ex sting
was the state of the Court 01 Chancery itself. If the
Vice-Chancellor's Court and the Robe' Court had I een
properly settled at the time the first of them was created
tend If et the same time the
etifieces toeneetereteith.ilieut
had li^rh pinperiy regulated with a view to dear off the
business--the complaints now merle would never have
been heard. Such a course would have been much snore
advantageous than it would be to separate the Inteiue.s of
Isankruptcy from the Lord Chancellor's jurisdiction. In
his opinion, nothing could be more mischievone than such
a separation, and lie hoped never to see the day when that
would be done. That the general adsninietratien of hank-
ruptey was hail he was ready to admit ; but lie del not
think it ought to he made a separate jurisdiction It bad
been said by some eersons, when it was proposed to issti-
titte the Vice-Chancellor's Court, that that Judge *saild
db nb litisiness. That Eeppossition bed praised ,to be in-
ferlY tinfouniled: The Vice Chancellor's Court had be-
come, to all intents and purposes, the Court of Chancery,
and the Court of Chancel), had become a Court of Appeals,
and little else. The Lamson+ who produced the measure for
instituting the Vice Chanctllor's Court never imagined
that teat Judge would do so much business that four
R gi•ters ceuld not keep up with him ; but if they h lid
f ircaren that fact, they ought not to have appointed him,
without appointing, at the same time, those officers who
would have removed the impedimenta that stood in
the way of the discharge of the liminess of the Court. As
the Vite-Chancellor's Coat, and the Conn of the Master
of the Rolls, now stood in relation to the performance or
the business of the Court of Chancery, they debited with
each other ; for If two parties were about to make cross
motions in the cause cause, though both these twinges
ought to come on together, one party could take his motion
t 'Sint-Chancery Court and the other could take
his to the Court of the Master of the Rolls. Jr.
consequence, too, of the present state of these two Course,
the Vice-Chancelsn's Court and the Court of the Alaateruf
the Bells each had a bar of its own ; but the bird
Chancellor's Court never could have a separate bar, but
must draw its bar front one or other of the two other
Courts. The Lord Chancellor could not hold his sittings
there regularly, on account of his political functiens,
of the appeals Ise bail to hear in the House of Lott's. Hie
proposition would avoid that difficulty. Ile would make
the Rella' Court a Court for the transaction of all busi-
ness except that of bankruptcy, as the Vice-Chancellor's
Was now ; for as they were at present constituted, one
set of Counsel might he heard in one of the Courts;
in discussing a motion that really decided the merits
of the cause, and yet, when the cause itself came on
again in the Court of Chancery, different counsel were also
of necessity employed. He should propose, that in future
no draftsman should draw a bill, without fixing on it a
mark to show in which of the Courts that bill should
came on. It had been the intention of the late Govern-
ment to mike a most important alteration in the Vice-
Chancellor's Court; for he had had the authority of Loud
Lyndhurst for proposing a measure that would have made
the Vice-Chancellor an independent Judge, instead of being
as be was now at the beck and call of •the Chancellor.
fleeing said thus much with respect to the Court of
Chancery, he now came to the alterations he proposed
to make in the Court of Exchequer. In consequence of
the uppointment of an additional. Judge in the Court of
Exchequer, be would propose that he or one of them
should be the First Heron of the Court, and that the Chi, f
Boron should confine himself wholly, to Equity; and
that in cases where,he felt a pressure, be should call in
the assistance of the Filet or most competent Baron ;
and that, on the other hand, the First Judge of the Law
side should, in case of questions of difficulty, more par-
ticularly connected with Equity, call in the assistance of
the Equity Judge. This would render the Exchequer a
most effective Court for the decision of cases, both of Law
and Equity. Before he came to the subject of the appel•
late jurisdiction, he would make one other observation on
the subject of the proceedings in Chancery ; and that was,
that the whole of the orders of that Court should be re-
vised and remodelled. The new orders had not by any
means been attended wilh the good effects that bad been
anticipated from them, and; nothing would answer the
purpose except a revision and remodelling the whole of
them, both new and °W.—(cleer, hear.)—And they
ought all to he made so clear and simple, that even a
Member for Middlesex might understand them.--(Hear.)l
And as to the orders and system of proceedings in the,
Exchequer, he wuul I propose that they should be the
same as in Chancery, that the country might be saved
from the inconvenience and disgrace of having two sys-
tems of equity procedure. He had said that no set of men
were snore disinterested titan the equity lawyers when the
question came to be what was best for the public be was
shout to give the House an example of that disinterested-1
vent. There were such thins in the Court of Chancery
as motions of courses, which were really of no use. These
were wholly in the hands of the junior Counsel, and the
fee on each was half a guinea. These he had proposed to
have abolished, but feeling some delicacy in proposing an
improvement, which would cost himself nothing, without
communicating with those who were to be affected by it,
he mentioned the matter to the junior Chancery liar-
deters, and they, one and all, concurred in the pro-
priety of the abolition of these motions. Some of these
fees came into the hands of the Master of the RON, but
they served no necessary purpose in the progress of a
suit, and, therefore, ought to be abolished. There was
one remark on the 'subject of the despatch of business in
the Courts which he felt hisuself called upon to 'make. It
was very common in that House to praise a Judge fur
. despatching a great deal of business in a short time, and
the natural consequence would be, that Judges would be
anxious to d. serve that praise without perhaps duly c n-
sidering other essential requisites in the progress of a
cause. Celerity was only one thing to be considered. It
was of the last importance that the thing should be well
done, as well as speedily done; and no despatch cou'd
be proper that interfered with due deliberation. He could
not help admiring a rule of Cromwell made two centuries
ago, which war, that when, after a cause bad been heard
and the Judge was ready to proceed to a decree, the decree
should be drawn up and completely settled in the pre-
Bence of the Counsel on both aides before any other busi-
ness was gone into: This was a most wise and judicial
reeulation, and he wished it had always been adhered to.
But as the matter was managed at present, there was no
time to set down and settle what had been done in one
cause before another was called on, so that it could not
immeiiately be exactly knoWn what had been decided.
The consequence was, that perhaps in three weeks
after it was necessary to have a second hearing at the
Registrar's Office, in order to settle what had been de-
creed. That was not a mode in which the business ought
to be conducted. Time ought to he taken after hear-
ing a cause to settle the decree at once; and if that could
not be dons according to the present system, then it was
his opinion that a new Court should be appointed for the
purpose. Without rare in this respect, there was danger
that they would forget the case, and have the whole of
their work to do over again. Another most material point
'in hie opinion was, that, as Lord BACON had said, the
Judge should take the law out of kis library, and not out
of his head, as otherwise there might be reason to appre-
-1 head that the law would escape them, and Counsel would
be at a loss what opinion to live; and very little de-
pendence could be placed on the opinion when given with
reference to the ultimate determination of the MSC.-
There was another thing which he was most anxious to
r see established in the Equity Courts, and that was Special
Paper Days, where they might argue the law upon a
s settled state of facts, and not he always disputing, as at
I present, on cases of mixed law and fact, each stating the
facts of the case in his own way, and applying the law to
his own state of facts. The practice of the Court of
s King's Bench afforded an admirable example in this Way.
In that Court difficult and important causes were turned
into what are called special CUM in which the facts were
settled and agreed upon by the Counsel fur the parties,
with the assistance of the Judge, if necessary ; and then
I the eases came on to be argued on the special paper days
• upon the law only, upon a settled and indisputable state of
facts ; whereas, according to their practice in equity,
t every man merle hie own statement of facts, and applie,
the law to that particular state and view of the facts.
t They had also causes which were called short causes, in
which it was understood that important and difficult
points ought not to be introduced. Nevertheless, it
I was not uncommon et present to introduce delicate and
important questions of few into such cases, so that
f they were decided without that deliberation which their
i importance demanded. Another proposition which, he
, would,thersforc, have made, was that such points should

he carefully excluded front short c lust% He nose pro.
7,,inned,:mthetaot,..7.o,t,:e: atheFe,r}cr.a tietrmetavnicel than n
nai,nny
(itilet,ait
ihnetolefielt:le:
t "tied, anti one whire,.Thriiiiiii:ipervirri;:usultyferceanleeleds
tfoorthea renelliotterls
tia..l;').serditgli't tiontet.:ll:l,aneSat:oeir,ei.rets,(iit:-Ittistri.ralef)neiritirn4e!l
ithti::::::,,hikaissliterr:Ptoirirt:eogeaostaictilevtri:,
~ report whether the prison claiming to he the Were"
A
8 t‘taelhr
ra,po,:tanittriote:4':ll.titislisii‘.,ietb.ti..tistiviiyy,:ta.ei,:sli...tlit.td(tile,,;%'2l‘r‘i‘..:::.:,o ace.t.,veinrui6irio‘ii:te 'rvi
:lib
eilitilt,t:eie..l.,ist,iptil ilhz..v:intitiy,e wieldett)ttuuttrtati.arilisotniiinbet
nie.yugtt 1
s.:iilitii7a:leaoltuliii;ivaeriffe.damitvtel.tll4sii:B-tt..,lioia,(l.l..coe'lalni
t(ii.
td‘lai,'ll,,:ii,aion'eonitertbf:l.tliVilf,nt:filliri'.e'iti;l'Cal),:,:i4nrmcr•retiirl!.sile.no,lec tinn'e tglitc4i'vtilttieet.'e:upiaini.ylip
coil eie
seeettif:n(ine t
vidtlewi,ceercoliabyehoi:oo::":,:toly'filtoiri 'l'
nbtl
be
tal,w,'
nrn()).
tie:
itni,a:irie,abeo
ustitri'..lianiii enDliTteat:introducedyite.s.
h ouholt :lee
drgi:ei
alteration
le
oi If
bow:
fi,i:inreecoh rtie
,iticoheoluiirtiel
l
acid concusiou into the administration of justice. Whit
t
be braid in their regular order anti in no other top
was the first rule that ought to 11
ar.itt::::edi Ps,: Si Ihstiotaint: :::::1 niter etl
jhieseul id:grBu:l.l:lelpybawt;:sianoto,nucetia;:laalYyy,ftoihnicri'
rt,shhisee,arhiujel7r.i nwg
1,1'10f:07 1;u!
tgetjuiniieia.reaterhuntiej,t.e!piwirgte_slviuhleei,,ier en oughtt
t t.a nt o
,I%).easno g 1
):oniourte, 1 delay e Izeti:n.himaprtyroBnifiltnrOrigiinhheit
ll,cir.eiC,,teii!r.r!rtulstiiiguenlT,,,h,ti,liktinlistßif.a. Sibtrbethme omittuittupp:irit:nbtadixn.iont
coefocts;l:
fbititn i
ief fa!: 1 tt
the
est
4.iltirt.ih.,:enutit
;in e.itns I i e t y of the ititlrirs to hake the jy.l6-
ineei gtveti as epeedily.as linmitiff: ittei. ilie hiding 1,10
be n finished, and of V t constant applications to the Coon'
sal to know when the judgment of the Court 'void be
r
ccoatsft
uihotetfoitiram);ait
aiet.rierpr,btiratatoy:iinitu,insc.,.
etaittfil,:ht,ntiiiieriunia.,comisrese,rnnimistii:iituiellgi,niktrtalai‘itaenstuvld:hepie:;ahtgie,
wriosic,u,,shli.utlnnemidpciii,hiuvilitinieriuncioai:st,epii.eulresi,o,iii:iiroll.elefiniyetuituticYrairiinliallta,mesitptnii,:serlstopitartirniihdicroftai:out:titawriereantacrinhtiii:iinailossi,gonadtinril,oatitceret:o4o,,fgeigorfelileftl:
istre.sit
*tinily under the eye of the Judge, the list, 00 th'
Suiturs. From this simpl . plan he expected meehkenefit
...and nne was in the mode of keeping the accounts of
ithhil
;t:::::dcp::::diliiiiiiriiii
commencement of the suit WAS scarcely WIJIth a5b1,11...g0
oes
it matter of appeals, and that sot i„„iii,.
"Etpowhia'insun:sateoynnnmet i‘witigliiedlittitchabehat .thtendebeteivrinedC;
sonogeddi
ice
.10i r 0
tic:
ot
et
rltilric
et
to
ehtiocoltui,
liimip.swellitirihicTsil:josci:titirrtoweirmee.
je:r.iathe.ite,',:rn.::;..i..
out haying the whole of the causes broutht hrfore luahnitonn
ot inion tuf the Court on one pattiettlar point wan,
.0
_, Ya
instances, all that was wanted (or tin distrileuti(e,netoo..e.
fund ; and in Scotland the Court had the
storejorisdicti 0.d.,,e
ride upon suchspecial point,' without haring Any iiei.l,
thet'
case brought before thorn; and the poWer n...,:
ercise-d. But in the Court of Chancery bare, Wit aces
*pinion of the Judge could be had on any one P0.114,.0„,
necessary to file a Ilill, and bring thew hole eiretunttl,int
of the case before him, whereas his judgment uncap,rlhe
might be all that was requisite tio the distributono
the
fund. What he should propose, therefore, W 1111) _trio
Judge might be c tiled upon for the shjudiestion, %gm
rn Ito IA point without haviug the whole oft Wise Pl° 0 of
befire him And now he came to the consisktP°,l.
treatril °I
the appellate jurirlietien. It was certainlY'la , eat
fiat to find ape'son for the head of the late '0.7. pap
sufficiently well informed in law and equity and olt,illir oil
titulars, so as to be able in the best manner to perfurrii
to
the duties attached to his situation. Ile did taut gin. nf a
Lay that it WAS a decided objection to the arlearteeter:;eii
nun to the head of the law, that he had Pot Pr cirat
chiefly in a Court of Equity; but it. certainly watotago,
drawback on the administration of justice. It
_o.l_o,
questitunsbly a great inconvenience that a man's bat real
in equity should be made as Judge of thsti tolc_."4o
Court where equity was administered. Tien;
3_6'...;
when it was thought proper to appeal a cause, tit ~Prre
lay to the very same Judge in another place. ._ 'lie
andw nfal etill': t:poll r
Hisu°ll ditlPf,ll)llale'ente tc°l7estnoun"rn. bio‘b:°i3l:lllW(lil4id exactly
U° abK(lbllvei;nr Yl. at
7usih:tieintuthenbi *oedema:is detaihoil the the
:1....0411:i: 4;
jwtwt:hhouhdeeirdcicecLitiistarro,:thraredtaidonnhcidirlyabebtaittunhnalecrirui;c:tuoiaanorsdu.tai
ifrpetidr
presiding--not
gni
niucstfit:ii
dtctriruyilnhandtsagoiinceonaf ttpahropoyfefaetiattl,hial
etodtnee:i. lia
it
wit, itself.
yee,l tilts I tilol '
le
ed e_
wr o eiji;o:siblviti
appeared the sante individual Lord Chance 01.),_7. 0,0,
there with a knowledge
ad
equity acquired since tliito' hi,
tion to the trench,
instead of *knowledge carriedberef:ro, „a,
tthoatthtehbeenapcpeluilatNeVihuaritsdhicetisohnootifltdhepTipouos:o:f
eLficirl aphiosteu,llll
he put on a totally different footing. 'lll tur.,lier Chn-
he should propose that a sort of Equitirt_7.lool.l consist
be, should be appointed, anti that the COirt gr" the Ai
)het
of the Lord Chancellor, the Vice.Chentalle sioi 00 that
of tits Rolls, and the Chief Baron. lb Pnr,o or she nr
the Counsel should be made really responsit 1
blurt. lie re,
peals which should be brought helot,' the
nabii re.
membered when it was a matter iyhich co, ile.
fleeted on a Counsel to sign which tbere
or appeal l'irvia ,oneasof'd
were no reasonable grounds; but now that
br:00, an i
with, and the most frivolous, appeal' wtrg a tin,' tj
thiewaserd..—w Leo thhea.d greseastesincoronovaenpipeenaz sitvilicli fare of
worthy of coming tinder the review of :!„01,1r, aahr
jurisdietion. Wlcat be should propoirs there_.,t'arril, o
that a moral responsibility, should tin
...row of r,";
created, and that it should be &Wei a 7_ 14011 '''
deetion oat Counsel to give their. sanction so ji orie„.
which there were no reasonable grostel6 tio•oento
Counsel could not be mule respordlbl? If hp pot.er„
their appeals, but every Connie.' bad it 3,,,h there ":"..e.
take care not to sanction an Nitre' fir which to, eont'io
no reasonable grounds. The Court bei:s,,,, ,Peon
toted, be would give the parties, sirilatp o't bore hearhri.
go before three of theme Judges, wit' 11,—ta lero of the °tit t!
the cause; before the Lord (,'hales) or tor t° 6 'il
Judges ; or before the other, three Judir.i. Ihe f
ah Oil e
House of Lords. If this. plan Were atiolou' whi ": ere
that it would stifle nine-tenths of the Or ailsropeefitli"
now refilled, more partioularlY the,',.lirli Tht", I:,°Fessl
of the Counsel should be well estAbl'",;,ida °' ant'
the
the appeals from Scotland. Tit. Ploy nfere,,e--"oiont
of
r
ootrliw'nhff:enrttrytleekeettehislehbaqvadruo,:rebuegiterpenaih,optbeeirlot otentfrlignmloa(i'letnwuirt7;giiiynaoletritglaooonlinvdttede.tirldeyibbnweasiChibtib:lllW;;lfft°l{o„;°,lllotr►elo arcadeti'l:lrl:
• • Gnat OP AOS tied
mined to be wade in them particuTi boettl'aibere
was ripe for them. Almost all thee. Pia:ere atidd A
nearly two centuries ago, but there theY"toreher, ken
and it was fisting 0,11 orio bitail the
remain there any longer. )11031.10400/ dry
made with a .vievr to them illoto in vooght,
new Administration had great gc. .0,0 prat, pot
them into effect. Another part of the ei..prober,pere
in his opinion, to be, that the Lord annno hie sal that
the power to call one of the Equity Jodie°. ' thirteen° for it
in cases of appeals in the House of Lot 1' oorr eieo.lol
that Judge should sit with hint, and not
_..,,ichtl!, mot
was obviously inconsistent with thestatio:twh;
sotto,
coo,
Chancellor held, and ought td holds ibis 00r slit the
any Judge over 'dm. He ought "not t°._ wide 101 t"
trout of any Jude.g The object *lns i° Fie stit IFii. thE
appeal should nut be to the dame Judge, Are „,,Cletts
the tame Judge was little else than a
.111n0 041111orld
remedies whieh he suggested were attende,ajo at on
the greatest advantage would be gained, 1'1,00;011e
be uniform anti certain. Now, to post° ii
.',O 000,40-
. of offices in the Courts, without which tine worge
With respect to them, his inteotio.olte.ol ailt ~„1
I ; '
r cure: be would adapt them to the rral ett.4_,l:e olit°loo hY
of the duties required by the interests of t1_,13 he ..„,aty
if it should be found that the duties C°.7.,, orolF"cort
c smaller numbers, then he would abolish li, ;be . re-
parts of the offices as vacancies oautred• to 010:: had
of Chancery there were thesis clerks i (10 i,„), E/2!, r in-
f..em bad been propOsed . two eenturiesl74l. Iltsow
lititslitetuocotiOoLunritoyuoegrahrc,t with very little dutY t° pea ,ifilootitii% WI
the duty
Chancery
guadiponnts°:l:l3!St:Ppeljr: 1:117$ 14::'''.;licvido:;IletCllyai;;:id.
i Common Law ought to devolve on the Loh Ito, at.
MSS would thus be taxed lite attoPt e're, orouott/'itisoll
tiefactory warmer. The duty had boo tl'l7 obtr!iir seers
tended the court in exult terms ill a Ito Istei Wel
that
duty employed in reading evidences
_ohs
aerapoe
- that duty had been diepensed with, 111'dailotafttd, Oil
! WAS to no purpose. What he ithituld ...t„irfalt`'
was, to relieve the clerics from tkiat natl. P'"-

.
1 to employ the six clerks to assist in taking acenunts. Thr
i . next office to which he would advert teas that of t' e
Sworn Clerk, whose services might be dispensed with,
and no great inconvenience followed. The next office was
that of the Accountant General, whose watery had been
Stated at 3,184/. It wax not quite so much, however,
and be did not think that say reduction ought to be made
In
,the salary of that officer, The next office was the Re.
‘ , pdrt Office. Ile tees heter refire astonished than when hr
say ire return kept that i Mee, it sae a there copying
office, and yet the tillOi:•ance to the laster Of the Report
. . ' tillice ;Itit. no !tat than 4,6 80../:a-u au' '
!n ISO enormous, that
he scarcely could believe it to be correct ; but if it was
correct, it very much rrquired to he corrected. It was
absolutely necessary that the Report Office should be in-
vestigated : it ought to cost no more titan about 1,2001.
instead of between three and four thousand pounds
a year. He next approached a very important office
i.--that of the Registrar—and nothing could be worse
than the system there established. The Registrar
Was allowed to take any number of clerks, who each
paid him ahoht 1,0000. for the Outlier of stlctession, for
title/ folloWed is rot;ith,O of: 0: the lAgliest filace Without
the slightest inquiry into their qualifications. Business
had so accumulated that it was absolutely necessary two
new Registers should be app•inted ; and what he proposed
was, that each Judge in his own Court should name his
own Register, taking care that he was properly qualified.
Hs was inclined to think that they shined be Barristers
i • and not Attornies; but whether the one or the other,
their •competence ought to be duly ascertained. He did
{ not mean to deprive of their claim those hoar entit'ed in
t the order of succession, but that their cothpeteace should
I be examined, and those only selected who *ere found
most capable. The accumulation ,of business prevented
the attendance of the Regiatee, and this, non-attendanee
, • heti been the subject of just complaint. The phblic ought
not to suffer front the appointment of new Registers, anti
1 if four were not sufficient, six must be provided with the
same emoluments now obtained by the four. He meant
to suggest that the Registers should attend front ten to
two in the morning, and from six to eight in the even
. • ing. Great part of the expence of a proceeding in Chen-
' cery now arose from the prepererous length of decrees,
which, instead of merely giving the decision, included
. , nearly the whole of the briefs of Counsel, copied at
, • the east of the suitors, without the slightest benefit
• to them: This evil ought at once to be remedied, by
paying the Registers out of a fund to be formed by
moderate, yet sufficient fees, to be vested in the
! . public, and to be dealt out , to the Registers in the
shape of salaries: The vast price of • office copies
ought also to be reduced; and they ought to be made useful
to the parties, by being Written in a form which rendered
heat legible. , At present only a few words were written
upon each pat,., so that a bill or answer extended over a
vast mass of paper. At present the Registers, in point of
emolument, were nearly on a level with the Judges of the
land, and it was quite time that they were reduced. He
now arrived at a still more momentous point-..the Masters'
Offices ; they had been a subject of great and just reproach ;
. for though tilledthy most honourable, intelligent, and com-
petent men, they were the sources of great evil. The
Masters were not responsible for the abuses which were of
long standing, and had been transmitted and accumulated
from generation to generat; on. Their salaries were only
two hundred pounds a yeai, so that their principal incomes
were derived front fees, and those fees were multiplied in
every way by the prolongation of business before them.
The first ground of complaint was that the attendance of
the Masters was not soda as they had a right to expect
from time amount of romuneratiun. The next was that
they issued hourly warrants, which occasioned an almost
indefinite repetition of them without arriving at anything
like a decision. 'Thirdly, the Masters hat, and dismissed
matters submitted to them in a private chamber ; and,
fourthly, the parties were put to vast expellee, by being
compelled to take office copies. He was happy to say that
the Masters were so anxious for a reform of their offices,
that the House might consider itself legislating with, and
I , not against them. The Masters received only nominal
! fees upon the scale of estates, but the expense was never-
! theless sometimes enormous. The Masters were called
, . upon to attend the Lord Chancellor and the Master of
the Rolls, which consumed their time, while it was only
a mere matter of empty parade. This lie would abolish,
. except in cases where the Chancellor or the Master of the
Rolls thought it necessary fur greater dignity to require
their presence, as, for instance, on the first day of term.
' Ile did not object to their attendance on the House of
Lords, of which they were the proper messengers ; but the
first thing lie would do would be to declare their chambere
~,In, Veil Court, and citable them to sit as Judges, three
• "Were at a time, with the assistanee of Counsel, deciding
points submitted to diem. He proposed that they should
• so sit fur three or four hours two evenings in every week,
and that the causes should be regularly set down in the
paper. , :The .hours' of business with the Masters had
greatly, veried. In remote times lawyers were in West.
minater Hall at five in: the morning ; and even in the
• reign. of Charles 11. the Masters sat front seven to twelve
I ' In the morning, and from two to six in the afternoon.—
! ' In 1798 they attended from ten to three in the day, and
j,: faun five to eight in the evening; in 1816 the hours
of business had been reduced to seven, and at present
l . he believed, that, on an average, they were not
more than five. Thus, as the emoluments aug.
rotated, the labour was decreased. He wished to ro-
oters the time of 'sitting twice •tt week to seven hours,
and if that were found too much for the present number of
the Masters, he would reduce that number, by not supply.
ing vacancies as they occurred. On the other four clays
,; of the week he would have the Masters' sit only in the
1.. day time fur six hour', viz. from ten until four. He next
t tame to the question of emoluments. In 1798 the highest
' sum received by a Muter in Chancery was 1,6151., and
• . the lowest 976/, but at present the income varied between
' f 3.8004 and 4,000/, His proposal was, that each Master
'.•
Should have a fixed salary of 8,0001. per annum, giving
: , hint no interest in the prolongation of a cause, and making
: it the common interest of all to get the business before
1i
h them done. The emoluments of the .clerks had also in-
4, creased surprisingly, until they now amounted to about 1
1,4001. a year. The regular fees amounted to between
5001. to 6001. a year, and the rest was made up of gra-
tuities for supposed expedition. His intention was, that
the salaries of the clerks should not be entirely fixed ; that
. thershould have a certain income of 600 L, and the means
of increasing it to 800/. by fees in matters of importance,
, Where peculiar speed is required. Another object was, to
Tot an end to the discrepancies in the Masters' Offices;
- for although they were under the same roof, in every
office different rules prevailed which suitors were bound
to,know and observe. He wished the Masters.to meet...
. to itree upon a general body of regulations.-.to submit
there to the three Judges of the Courts, and with their
elilirobetieft to establish them for the government of every
Office, that in all the practice might be uniform. .He also,
highly approved of the establishment of an Accountant's
Qffloit; but he 'wished the Accountant to be an • efficient
Ilisora officer,. who might be referred to by the Masters
en points of difficulty, and to be liable to appeal only
wheasthe sum in dispute was large, or where some ques.
t!ion' of principle was involved. By these changes he
hoped to make the Masters! Office as much respected as
t'• it was now reviled andcensured. He was anxious, also,
' to avoid the expellee occasioned by the taking of affidavits
,i -•' Within twenty miles of London, where the presence of a
Master was always required, at the expellee of many
pounds, !milks his fee of five guineas; whereas, at a
outer distance, a Alatter Extraordinary was considered
otitheient, fuel time suitor was put to the expellee of only a
feu' 'billings. He considered some of the appointments
by the turd Chancellor highly objectionable, and among
, .them those of the Secretaries, who acted as Registers. It
l • had long been the custom fur the Keeper of the Great Seal
; • to anpoibt attorneys in practice to such situations—he re-
.: leered particularly to the Secretaries for Lunacy anti Bank.
' . ruPtlY; the first of whom had,. an income of 1,3001.
a• e
y er, and the last of not less titan 2,700/. This custom
~ 40$ only led to great perversion of justice, but it rendered
. .the suitors dissatisfied with its administration ; and he
: thought that the Noble Lard now at the head of the'Court
. • of Chancery had much increased the evil, although he cer-
tainly was not answerable for the introduction of the abuse.
lord Illdou had appointed an attorney in great practice a
Buret
~ ary and a Commissioner of Lunatics, and et the
little little of the appointment nothing could have given greater
Veillisfaction than the union of those two characters.
Lard Lyndhurst had named, as Secretary of Lunatics, it
gentleman who was also a solicitor of goat eminence in
the profession, of full business and of high character. It
jetle mthis opinion, and that from'which he scarcely imagined
. should experience any dissent, namely, that no Solicitor
should hold a situation in the Court of Chancery, which
~: 'night supply a temptation to litigants to employ bioe in
- tefertnce to others, from a hope that doing " might lead
.., in.4j4v.oUrable decision. The appointment of the Secretary
~..."'_iiitnkrupts was particulerly open to the force of
,that ob-
,:. rrvotron. With respect to the lately-appointed Secretary
`'.;, tha Bankrupt caws, he had thus much to state, namely,
k,thet gentleman did not think himself et liberty to
!
Practise,, yet he thought his partner quite free to do so;
':' "uulUlw he would ask the House wherein the difference
!,, Was to be founds between the influence which any man
might exert.-lee would Pay might; be supposed to exert the decisions*by suitors
for himself-° alone,yer
or byi.lPairCfnetiri.e C°lntirallewerhteitnighteo acted
topics, II begged it to be understood that be meant no
hostile allusie* to the eharecter or conduct of the present

Keeper of the Great Seal. He then, in expressing his
•ense of the high qualifications of Lord Brougham, pro-
fessed that he was not infloinced by any,other quip strict
..onsidera ions of public duty.—(llere some remar.:: made
!)ehind him called uff the attention of the lion. and
Learned Member. )—lie said, he could not avoid hearing
the Hon. Member for ABldlesea say, " here's a splash."
He contended for his right of making the observations
which he was makinv. and in the manner be adopted,
without beitig Envie the subjeet of that sort of animad-
version. if; pot pfa.teetled. td say, that he lioptftl some
course would bp. adppted to tacilqate,thq great work of ac-
lcomplishing a Reform in the ..onreo(Chen9rj6. Nettling,
he was 'satisfied, would prove more acceptable to the
country at large, than to put the Court df Chancery on a
sound and advantageous footing. lie could assure those
Hon. Gentlemen on the other side of the House, from
whom such a reform was expected, that they should ex-
perience no opposition on that side, his side of the House.
He concluded by moving, 66 That there be laid before the
House an account of the number of appeal cases, bills, de-
murrers, exceptions, and further directions, which stood
before the Lord gidtteellite or the Vice-Chancellor, on the
Gth November, 1.080."
Mr. M. A. TAYLOR had ton much compassion—
though he felt none for the Finn. Gentlemen who usually
sat below him, but who were not now in their places—to
detain the House by entering then into the abuses of the
Court of Chancery. With the speech which they had
just heard, or rather, with the results which it was likely
to produce, if there was one man in the country who
ought mere thin another to be gratified with them,that man
was himself. Of the abuses of the tourt of Chaneery he
had told them all,. or rather not all but some, Merely a
few; hut now he bid the satisfaction of seeing the Hon.
and Learned Geptleman below him, calling upon his Ma-
jesty's GovernMent to bringforwerd, the necessary alters.
lions—now for the first time athiiitted on all hands to be
necessary, while it must be full in the recollection of the
[louse, that the late Lord Chancellor, in the course of the
session, brought in two Bills, which he abandoned, and
that the Hon. and Learned Gentleman himself also aban-
doned his own measures of last year. As to what had
been said in reference to the appointments made by the
present Lord Chancellor, he had only to observe, that that
Noble Lord had done nothing but what had been sanc-
tioned by the example of every ohs of his predecessors;
and why should not be, as they had dote, surround him-
self with men of honour and character, in whom he could
confide? He was enabled to say this—that Mr. Vizard,
the Secretary for Bankrupts, assured the Lord Chancellor
that he would no longer practise in cases of bankruptcy or
lunacy. Once more he would congratulate the House,
and he tt listed he might in a peculiar degree felicitate him•
self, that at length the country would, by common consent
of all parties, enjoy the benefits of Reform. He should
move that the debate be adjourned to Monday next.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL, iu seconding the mo-
tion for adjournment, said, that though his Hon. and
Learned Friend had in some respects censured the conduct
of the present Lord Chancellor, he had not advised his
Noble predecessor, though a Meinber of the same Go-
vernment with his Hon. Friend the Member for Wey-
mouth, to avoid that course for which he was now censur-
ing the present Lord Chancellor. His Noble Friend had,
in the several appointments which he made, only followed
the example set him by Lords Thurlow and Erskine, by
Lord Eldon, and by every Keeper of the Great Seal. It
could not he for a moment denied, that the present Lord
Chancellor had great difficulties to contend against, and
though in meeting those difficulties he had felt himself
called upon to appoint those, cud none but those, in Whom
he could repose, yet in the case of these two gentlemen
connected with his Court, the giving away of whose offi-
ces would have been to him a source of considerable pi-
tronage, he had not availed himself of his unquestionable
power and authority,. hit had permitted those gentlemen
to remain in the situations in which he found them. Not
an iota of patronage had he availed himself of for
the benefit of any one of his connections.
Now more especially with respect to his private
secretary, the fact was, that antecedently to that
gentleman's appointment, the Lord Chancellor had not the
slightest knowledge of him, and merely received him into
that office from recommendations which gave him assur-
ance that the gentleman was well qualified. As to the
Other secretaries, respecting whom some observations had
been made, he must be allowed to say that the Noble
Lord had no other choice but to appoint solicitors. It
might be extremely desirable, if barristers could be found
to fill them, to appoint gentlemen belonging to that
branch of the profession ; bet there were few barrister*
who were qualified who would give up their profession
for the hazardous situation in question. Under all the cir•
cumstances he hoped his lion. Friend would permit him'
to say that it would have been rather better for him to
have waited a few months, to see what the Lord Chancel-
lor could do, than thui to appear against him with what
he might be perinitted to call premature condemnation.
On occasions such as that, other persons having to speak
of the present Lord Chancellor under the circumstances
in Which be had to mention his name, might feel called
on to pronounce a splendid !panegyric—he was, he
trusted, incapable of betraying so much bad taste, but be
would entreat the House and the country to look to the
conduct of the Noble Lord ; and though he might not be
sa practised an Equity Lawyer as the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman opposite, yet he confessed that he should feel
hithself most grievously mistaken if his Noble Friend did
not turn out to be one of the greatest Equity Judges and
one of the greatest Equity Lawyers that ever presided in
the Court of Chancery ; if he did not, in a word, equal
all the expectations which that House bad formed of him
—if he did not fulfil all that was hoped from a man to
whom no subject was too great for his comprehension, nor
any detail too minute to elude his research ; of this at
least he was certain, that no one ever entered the Court
of Chancery with a more sincere and earnest disposition
to adVance the great work of Reform, and to put an end
to the abuses of the Court of Chancery. He really was
unable to comprehend, from what had been said respect-
ing the "appellate jurisdiction, that it at all applied in
any peculiar degree to the present question. That an
appeal to the House of Lords would have been an appeal
from the Lord Chancellor to the Lord Chancellor any more
in present times then it was at former periods, appeared
to him incomprehensible. Surely there were as many
Law Lords now as at any former periods, and as able.
'There was 'no decision to which the present Lord Chan-
cellor might come, which, being appealed from, would not
come under the consideration of Lords Eldon, Lyndhurst,
and Wynford. ' He could not conclude without observing
that whatever reforMs might be effected in the Court of
Chancery,'all the honour belonged to his Hon. Friend the
Member for Durham, and he could not but add to that
remark, that if the reforms now so urgently called for
by the other side were indispensable now, they Were re-
quired, thought it might be in a less degree, in the year
1810. He denied that the Cabinet—that the Govern-
ment, as a Government, had leisure or information to
make a plan for the improvement of the Court of Chan-
cel, though they might willingly support any measure
which should have for its object an useful and practical
Reform.

------ -
Sir E. B. SUGDEN briefly replied.
Sir C WETHERELL' said, that the practice always
bad been to appoint solicitors to the office of Secretary;
and in the case of Lord Macclesfield's impeachment, when
.
any possible charge was treated upon against him, his ap-
pointing solicitors to that office was never once mentioned.
Mr. HUME begged to explain to the Hon. Member
for Weymouth (Sir E. all., Sugden) that what he had
said, and what the Hon. Gentleman bad overheard, had
been addressed privately to a friend that sat next him, and
not at all intended to interfere with his speech. Ills
friend had asked him what the motion was ? To which
his reply was, that it was not a motion, it was only a
splash.—(A largli.) If the Honourable Member for
Weymouth wished to know what a splash meant, be
would tell him 'he meant a speech on a eubject, but no
motion on the speech,—(flear, hear, and a laugh.) He did
riot understand how the lion. Member for Weymouth
could accuse Lord Brougham, when that Noble Lord had
scarcely taken his seat, while the Hon, Gentleman him-
self had sat for three yeats on the Treasury Reach as a
Member of the Administration, and during all that time
the House had never heard such a speech as had been
made by him that night..--(Hear, hear,)-11e. Must say
that it would have been more creditable to the Hon. Gen-
tleman, with all his knowledge and experience, to have
called on the Ministry, when be was Solicitor-General, to
assist him in remedying those abuses which he had now
begun to point out. While on his legs lie would take the
opportunity of saying that he 'had never been half so satis-
fied at any speech made by a lawyer in that House, as that
which had fallen that night from the Attorney-General. --
(Ilear, hear.)--It was one which did honour to him as 'a
lawyer, and which held out to the public that he would
use his best efforts in remedying those evil" which he per-
ceived to exist. lie would venture to say that the Attor-
ney-General ,would not_ be contrast to sit still for three
years knotlaing.r,(llear,.bear.)—On the contrary,
he
had already begun to tell them of those abuses which he
thought required amendment.
Sir E. B. SUGDEN,begged to explain, that when he
was in office lie had pledged himself to this measure, arid,
therefore, what he bed: been doing .that night was wily
more fully explaining that mown to the House. It was,
therefore, too much to say that he had sat for three years

on the Alinisterial sine without taking any steps on this
subject. _

The debate on this-question was then adjourned to
Monday next.
.-!.I.IITIACCi(I4 '
The CHANCELLOR of the EKCHlV)",tiritidt,t4rd.
his Bill to prohibit the growth ottobiceo in'lrelini to
this day. • '