The Sun.
London, England, 1863-06-12 00:00:00

to in an earlier part of the evening. They proposed to
make a small increase in the salaries in consequence of
the additional duties imposed upon them under the re-
vised code ; and they further made provision for giving them
schoolmasters as their assistants, and not, as had been said
that evening, appointing schoolmasters assistant-inspectors.
The schoolmasters appointed to 4ssist the inspectors w uld
have no power to report on the school, or do anything what-
ever beyond examining the school. He trusted the house
would not put a forced construction upon this minute, for
the only object of it was to give the inspectors assistance
upon the cheapest terms in those places where it was re-
quired. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. BLACK said he would feel it his duty to move a re-
duction of the vote upt.n that portion relating to pupil
teachers. Taking the certificated teachers, pupil teachers,
and probationary teachers together, they had an army of
28,288 teachers. He should like to see that army in Hyde
Pat k. It would be a pretty one for the Prince and Princess
to re view. For what purpose had they 15,000 pupil teachers?
The hon. member contended that no apprentices ought to be
taken into the training schools during the present year, as
there was not work for the pupil teachers already on the list;
and, in that view, he moved that the vote be reduced by a
sum of £30,000. _ _ _

Mr. LONE said the money asked for by this vote was
for the payment of pupil teachers already apprenticed, but
the hon. member might rest satisfied that under the new
code, which would come into operation on the 30th inst., no
part of the grant would be directly applicable for the pay-
ment of pupil teachers.
Mr. F. S. POWELL expressed his belief that the pupil
teachers woe the backbone of the system of education.
Mr BLACK then withdrew his amendment. _ _

Mr. ADDINGTON inquired whether measures could not
be taken to protect unmarried females placed in charge of
parish schools from the temptations to which they were sub-
jected.
Mr. LOWE said the Committee of Council could not very
well interfere in the matter ; it was one which must be dealt
with by the friends of the teachers themselves, more espe-
cially as under the new system they w uld be the servants
of the managers, and not of the Committee.

Mr. PULLER was of opinion that the training schools
were the mainstay of the whole system, and their mainten-
ance was a matter of great importance. With regard to
pupil teachers leaving their schools to follow other occupa-
tions, the last reports showed that out of 328 only 10 had
given up and gone to other employment. With respect to
the inspctore of schools, he thought it would be a very un
fortunate thing far the country if Parliament were to be de-
prived of the information furnished by their report.
Mr. ADDERLEY feared that the eys;em of maintaining
the training schools, as set out by the right hon. gentleman's
proposal, would not be so successful as he anticipated. Al-
together, however, he approved of the system, and only
wished it had applied to Irelal.,d and Scotland also.
A; r. W. E. FOSTER was opposed to the vote untilfurther
informed as to the operation of the new system.
Sir M. FARQUHAR supported the vote. It was of the
utmost importance they should know what the inspectors
wrote, and he condemned the garbled reports of the inspec-
tors that were published by the Government.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS complained of the annual growing

increase of the vote, and he asked for an explanation why
Scotland was allowed the liberal contribution of tour or fivo
years ago, and was placed in a superior posit ion to the other
parts of the empire. He approved of educating the poor,
but he thought it should be done with economy.
Mr. LIDDELL supported the certificate system, believ-
ing that the success of the schools depended on the efficiency
of the master. It they could not get beyond 8s 3d per head
they would have to fall back wen interior teachers, and the
efficiency of the schools would deteriorate proportionally.
Mr. A. BLA.CE. said he believed advantages were given

to Scotland because they had a superior system than that
whim prevailed in England. He should wish to see it,
however, improved and extended, but the revised code was
not likely to effect that object.
Mr. E. COLE ,ROOK supported the voluntary system
which prevailed in Scotland.
Atter some further discussion, the amendment was nega-
tived without a divi.ion, and the vote was agretd to.
The next vote was £122,883 for the department of science
and art. _ . .

Mr. A. SMITH pointed out the steady increase in this
item year after year, and moved to reduce the vote by
ZIO,OOO
Mr. C. BENTINCK wished to know if it was the inten-
tion of her Al jesty's Government to carry on the build-
ings at Kensington under the superintendence of the gentle-'
inan who was, he underst )od, the master of drawing in the
school.

Mr. LOWE said that Captain Fowke had neither the
honour nor dishonour of being the designer of what was
called " The Boilers ;" they were the design of Sir Wm.
Cubitt. Captain Fowke was the designer of the Vernon and
Sheepshanks galleries at the South Kensington Museum,
and they did him the greatest credit. He was also the de-
signer of many public buildings which were greatly admired.
Mr. C. BENTINCK said the right hon, gentleman had
not answered his question. He maintained that Captain
Fowke knew nothing of architecture. With regard to

the lighting of buildings, it was right that an engineer
should be appointed. (Hear.) But he could tell the
right hon. gentleman that the sheds which he valued so
highly were the scorn of everybody who knew anything of
the ABC of architecture. (Laughter,) They were on a
par with the huge melon-glasses which the Chancellor of
the Exchequer wanted them to buy. (Great laughter.) The
right hon. gentleman's department was most unfortunate,
and he could not congratulate it on having for its architect
the designer of the melon-glasses. (Renewed laughter)
Mr. LOCKE thought his hon. friend was too hard upon
leapt. Fowke; for, if they 1 coked through the metropolis,
'they would find all their architects were in no better posi-
tion than Capt. Fowke. (Laughter.) Capt. Fowke was the
designer of that great brick building, the International En.
hibition building. That building was not erected for orna-
ment (Laughter.) It was built for the purpose of present-
ing the most frightful exterior that could be conceived—
(laughter)—but that showed the ability of Captain Fowke.
(Renewed laughter.) He thought Capt. Fowke should be
allowed to run his course, and try his hand as well as any-
body else at the ornamentation of the Exhibition building,

but which ha hoped would not cost so much as £448,000.
Sir M. RIDLEY said that some pictures in the South
Kensington galleries, which were in good preservation
when they were removed from Marlborough House, were
decaying very rapidly.
The committee divided—
For the amendment
Against it
Majority
The vote was then agreed to.
THE VOLUNTEERS' BILL.

At half-past 12 this order was called on, when
Mr. COX rose to present three petitions against that
portion of the bill giving commanding officers the power of
summary dismissal. One of them was from the 37th Mid-
dlesex, and another from the Ist Lancashire. The hon.
member having remarked that the bill was brought on be-
fore, on the A scot Cup night, said he felt that justice could
no' be done to it at that hour, and therefore he should
move the adjournment of the debate. (Hear, bear.)
The Marquis of HARTINGTON said he was perfectly
aware that the hon. member and his friends meant to ob-
struct the progress of the bill in every possible way, but
the bill had been fully considered in committee. (No, no,
and hear.) He could not help the bill coming on upon the
Ascot night, but the hon. member had not explained why
the friends of the coraplaqiing volunteers had riot been more
numerous in their attendance at Ascot than in the holm.
the only amendment on the paper, however, was exactly
the same as that of the hon. baronet the member for Not-
tingham (Sir R. Clifton;, which had been fully discussed
the other evening.. Therefore there was no reason for not
going on with the bill.
Major ED WAR pES was in favour of proceeding then.
Sir J. SHELLEY spoke in favour of proceeding with the
bill, which he believed was anxiously desired by the volun-
teers at large.
Mr. COX withdrew his amendment.
Some other amendments having been agreed to,
Sir It. CLIFTON said the hon. bart. spoke of the volun-

teers at large, but he said nothing about those under arrest.
It the newspaper articles and correspondence he had seen
and had sent to him were any teat—he woud read some of
the letters. (The hon. gentleman then read a letter from
Mr. Thos. Harris, of Blackfriars-road, and another from a
member of the Forfarshire Volunteers at Dundee, com-
plaining that volunteers should be dismissed by their offi-
cers without notice er explanation, and with no power of
appeal). The letters referred to numerous applications that
rad been made to the Lord-Lieutenant and Commander-in-
Chief, but which had never been attended to nor noticed.
In one case a number of complaints had been made, and
the Lord-Lieutenant ordered a court of inquiry, where-
upon a memorandum was irsued, stating that the ex-
planation of the officers was satisfactory, but the men
could be dealt with another time. Then came
Mr. Hutchinsen's case, asking for the withdrawal
of his name from the corps. This bill gave the
colonel a despotic power to dismiss any man at his ca-
price, and if the Government wished to annihilat,, the
movement, he had nothing further to say. He felt con-
fident, from the hundreds of letters he had received, and
upwards of 60 leading articles that had been forwarded to
him, that this bill was disliked by the men, and would have
the effect of destroying that fine force. He moved the
following amendment in clause 20, line 17, after "cause,"
leave out to and including "officer" in line 19, and insert
"such cause or causes respectively to be committed to
oe
af
useue ce h r
c pr pe cos,e t vaeni
yd tthoe existenjudgedce ano
fd sbuyffi
writing, and communicated to the accused by the adjutant
i
summoned by the commanding officer, and to consist of one
ac ecnocuyr to ft
to u cbhe
captain, two subaltern officers, and two non-commissioned
officers or privates of the same corps."
Mr. D. GRIFFITH had taken great interest in the
movement, and he had an opportunity of knowing the
feelings of the corps on this bill, and he could assure the
house there was a strong feeling throughout the country
against the bill. It was said there was a similar clause in
the Act of 1804 ; but circumstances were different then and
now, and it was not be expected that the present generation
was acquainted with that ancient piece of legislation. He
was impartial in the matter, but it was to be recollected
that this was a house of colonels, and not a house of