The Sun.
London, England, 1830-02-05 00:00:00

considered the amendment a mere quibble upon words.—
(Hear, hear.)—One of his reasons for supporting the Ad-
dress was, that he could not consent to abandon a Ministry
which had done so much for Ireland—(Hear, hear)—and
one of his reasons for opposing the Amendment was, that
he should be sorry to give a vote in favour of that party
which had endeavoured to throw a clog around them when
they were on their march to improvement.—(Hear.)—
He was content with the admission of Ministers that there
was great distress in the country ; for, after making that
admission, they would be guilty of a gross abandonment
of their duty, if they did not exert every means in their
power to remove it.
Mr. DUNCOMBE declared it to be his intention to
support the amendment, because it painted the distress of
the country correctly, which the Address did not. The
Right Hon. Secretary for the Home Department had
called upon the House not to support the amendment,
until it bad further evidence of the distress which per_
retied all classes. He was at a loss to conceive what
evidence the Right Hon. Gentleman would have, if he was
not content with that which he had got already. He had
the evidence of the Noble Lord who moved the Address,
and of the Hon. Member for the city of London whu
seconded it—he had the evidence of two other Members
of the city of London—he had the evidence of his Right
lion. Friend, the Member for Liverpool—he had the
evidence of the Hon. and Learned Member for Clare—in
short, he had the evidence of every man in the House,
whose opinion on such a subject was worth having—and
yet the Right Hon. Gentleman, with all that evidence,
hoped that the House would not adopt the amendment of
his Hon. Friend the Member for Kent, without receiving
still more eridence.—(Hear, hear, from the Opposition.)
If the Right Hon. Gentleman really required such
evidence, he had it in the various meetings which bad
taken place in different parts of the country—in the
addresses which had been sent up from various public
bodies to the head of the Government ; and in the
petitions, which had been agreed to in every large
town in the kingdom, and which would soon be pre-
sented to the consideration of the House. It appeared to
him, that look into whatever quarter of the country a man
might, he could not fail to find sufficient evidence of the
severe distress which pervaded it from one corner to another.
—(Hear.)—Perhaps the eyes of the Right Hon. Gentle-
man were now at length opened,—for he really was of
opinion, that before that night the Government was not
impressed with any idea of the extent of the prevailing dis-
tress. He, therefore, thought that as such was the case,
it should lose no time in entering into an immediate in-
vestigation of the state of the country. With regard to
the imputations which had been cast on his motives, and
on the motives of those with whom he acted, he would
merely observe, that he scorned them, and that he would
on all occasions treat them with the contempt which they
merited.—(Hear.)—He had no earthly motive in the
course which he was then pursuing than to discharge his
duty to the best of his poor ability to his distressed
and afflicted countrymen. In conclusion, lie expressed a
hope that a system of the most rigorous economy would
be adopted by Ministers, and that, instead of merely
reducing the salaries of subordinate clerks, they would
begin with the reduction of their own income,.
Mr. RICE said, that if he could bring himself to be-
lieve that upon the issue of this debate the continu,nce of
the present Ministers in office was to depend, so grateful
was he to them for the great benefit which they had con-
ferred upon Ireland by acceding to the measure of last
Session, that he would gladly give them all the assistance
which lay within his feeble power. But that was not the
issue which the House had to try. The House had simply
to decide whether the distress of the country was confined
to some particular parts of it, or whether it was general
throughout the country. If there were any doubt upon the
point,—and he was afraid there was not,—he should sup-
port the latter opinion, because it would at any rate show
the people that their representatives were inclined to look
upon their sufferings with an eye of sympathy. Under his
present impressions he was inclined to support the amend-
ment ; but if any Country Members would get up and
state to the House that their constituents were not di,-
tressed, he would immediately give his vote in favour of
the original address. He did not look upon this
question as one which involved a mere quibble for words
—he considered it as a question of far deeper import-
ance. His Honourable Friend had intimated that
he could not agree to this amendment, because it
came from, and was supported by, a party with whom
he was not in the habit of acting. With all de-
ference to his Hen. Friend, that WAS a principle upon which
he, as a pablie man, could never consent to act. Upon po-
litical subjects he generally differed from the Hon. Baro-
net who had moved the amendment, but he should indeed
be ashamed of himself, if that general differenee of opi-
nion should load him to dissent from any useful and salu-
tary proposition which the Hon. Baronet might bring
forward. He (Mr. Rice) should regret that his vote ou
this occasion was mistaken ; he gave it to the influence of
truth, in his comparative examination of two propositions
which were before him. lie believed, indeed, that the
distress, although pressing hard upon parts of Ireland
was lees there then it was foand, generally speaking, in
England. Enough was, however, apparent in the state of
both countries to call for sympathy, and he felt himself,
therefore, under the necessity of voting for that declaratory
resolution which was more expressive of the degree of dis-
tress he believed to exist in the community.
Mr. EWART, with every sympathy for the ex-
isting distress, could not coincide with those gentlemen,
who thought that the distress of the country had not been
exaggerated. In proof of which lie quoted returns made
to him from Lancashire and Chesterfield of the increase of
the home consumption of cotton from the year 182 to
the present time, which had gone on from 285,439,4261h5.
to a much larger amount.
Mr. R. PALMER. said that his knowledge of the ex-
istence of very general distress compelled him with great
regret to vote for the amendment.
Mr. M. FITZGERALD said that if the support of the
Address could imply that any inquiry into the existing
state of distress were denied, or even not likely to be in-
quired into, by the Government or that House, he would
evince a readiness to entertain the amendment, but when
he thought the contrary was the fact, he could not
bring himself to the same conclusion as his Honourable
Friends near him. Respecting the omission of Ireland
in the Address, he wished to give a hint to the
Hon. Member for Clare, an old debater in public life
elsewhere, though young in that House ; and it was to
caution him against affording his prompt assistance to the
Honourable Members for whom he had this night ten-
dered his vote. There was certainly great distress in Ire-
land, but nothing equal to the extent in which it pervaded
England. Let his Hen, Friend therefore take cars how
he gave his support to men under the notion that he WAS
*erring Ireland, who might hereafter turn round and ob-
ject to the importation of Irish produce, which ought to
have as free an admission into the English market as that
of Scotland, or of the counties of England, and propose
their measures of Poor Laws, or others of a similar nature,
fur the sister kingdom.
Colonel WOOD was in favour of the Address, which
had described the prevailing distress, but had not encou-
raged exaggerated estimates of it, while it left every thing
overt for fair and distinct consideration. He entreated the
House to c.ensider what the impression would be of send-
ing forth to the public an amendment of the kind pro-
p•-ised, the supporters of which did not agree in any single
view of what was necessary for the ultimate attainment of
their own object.
Mr. BROUGHAM assured the House that be should
oily treepata on them for a very few minutes, while, to
avoid misconstruction, he steered the reasons which in-
fluenced the vote he was about to give. He bad never
entered this House with less expectation than he had done
this evening of being called upon to vote for an amend-
ment, and if he could persuade himself that there was only
a simple verbal difference between ths construction of the
original address and the amendment—that mere words,
end not material substance, would be found between
them, he should not have come to the conclusion he had
now to express. He deplored the extenuating impression
:erhick Ministers had thought fit to introduce inte the
Speech. Whether they were aware or not at the titre of
the force of the phrase, he could not tell; but he could
tell in what sense them words would he taken by the
anffering--the deeply suffering portion of the public to
whom they would be borne. Was it possible, indeed, fur
them to go forth with tar other than one meaning, namely,
this—that after all, Parliament had admitted the existence
of distress, but of what nature? Why, in plain common
sense, that it was partial, anti there might be a little some-
leheee, but not much of it. This wis the meaning of
the wards in the Address. Such a description of the pre-
sent c mdition of the country he could not sanction by his
vote, and lie was di iven to take the ether, and as he
thought more correct description, which the amend-
meets presented, as belonging nearer to truth, in con-
aveyang what Ire and the public felt. This vote
be give with reluetaTu3e. It was a vote wrung from
him, and in giving it he repeated hip anxiety to avoid
having his motive misconstrued. Something had been
said of the intentions of the Hon. Baronet who had
moved the amendment, and their insinuations had been
disavowed, but be (Mr. Brougham) would say, whatever
were their intentions—whatever were their tendency, if
he could bring himself to think the eqect of the amend-
ment would be to displace the present poveix.wt. it
should Ago kaYe mei aud imperfect are fleeerigi"l