The Sun.
London, England, 1863-05-08 00:00:00

BRAZIL.-MR. CHRISTIE.

Mr. M. MILNES rose to put a question to the •
Lord of the Treasury respecting the conduct of Mr. Christie,l:l
18t
her Majesty's Minister at Brazil, in the question of the ship
Prince of Wales and the officers of her Majesty's ship
Forte ; and asked whether a letter addressed to Earl
Russell by the Minister of the United States at the
Court of Brazil, and subsequently published, had re •
ceived any notice from her Majesty's Government. He
thought it was only due to Mr. Christie that the hon. mem-
ber for Lincoln (Mr. Bramley-Moore) would retract the
very unjustifiable language he had used towards that gen•
tloaan.
Mr. BRAMLEY-MOORE, in order to explain, moved
the adjournment of the house. The merchants and prin-
cipal inhabitants of Rio Janeiro, who were better able to
pronounce an opinion than people at a distance, were
exceedingly dissatisfied with the conduct of Mr. Christie,
on account of the irritability of his manner and the actual
falsehoods in which he had dealt about the wreck of the
Prince of Wales. It appeared, too, that he had quarreled
with the other Ministers, and generally created by his con-
duct an ill-feeling against this country. He justified
the un
guage of Gen. Webbe with respect to Mr. Christie.
Lord 1'41.144E115T ON defended Mr, Christie, He bad

for sometime been a Member of that house, and many hon.
members could hardly fail to recollect the meritorious way
in which he performed his duty. (Rear.) M Christie
was a gentleman and a man of honour, and he w a satisfied
that no man could justly question his ver Jct. (Hear.)
He knew nothing of Mr. Webbe—(laughter)—r nd with re-
gard to his letter, it was no doubt treated 1)3, Earl Russell
with the disregard it merited. (Hear.) Had such a letter
been written by a British diplomatist he was sure his noble
friend would have dismissed him as a person unfit to hold
such a responsible post. Mr. Christie simply carried out
the orders sent him by the Government, and he had reason
to believe that the informati n supplied to the hon. member
for Lincoln with respect to the alleged ill feeling against
Mr. Christie was grossly incorrect. (Hear, hear.) It
was not the province of a body of traders to decide upon the
conduct of the representative of a Government, but that of
the Government who sent him there, (Hear, hear.)
After a short discussion the motion was negatived with-
out a division.

PRISON MINISTERS BILL,
On the motion for going into committee,
Mr. R. LONG rose to move that the house " do not re-
solve itself into the said committee until that day six
months ;" and said that he was justified in taking such a
course by the strong feeling which had been manifested
against the measure. Without any attempt at organising
opposition there had been between 400 and 500 p titlons,
slgoed by some 50,000 persons, presented against the bill,
and amoag them was a petition from the corporation of the
City of London. In the first place, he was desirous of ask-
ing the Government what the grievances were which it was
proposed to redress by this measure. The grievance, as he
understood it—although he denied that it was a grievance-
was put in this way, that it would be a hardship if th-y
were the mtinners of a Protestant min rity living under a
Roman Catholic Government, and that, if some persons ot
their persuasion were in prison, they should not have a paid
chaplain of their own persuasion. But, if it was a grievance
that Roman Catholic prisoners in the gaols of this country
had not a paid chaplain to minister to their spiritual neces
sities, it was one which resulted from the nature of the con-
stitution under which they lived. As long as the Esta-
blished Church was put forward as the exponent of truth
and morality, he did not see how the grievance could be
remedied. If they were once to depart from the present
principle, let them see the extent to which they might be
carried. According to the provisions of this bill, v herevei
there was a sect, no matter how objectionable its tenets,if a
suffiiient number of its members were in any prison of the
country, the Government would be compelled to provide a
chaplain of that persuasion ; so that they might have a chap-
lain of the Mormonite persuasion—a thing abhorrent to the
principles of the English constitution. He also wished to
ask the Government whether they had counted the cost of
the measure to the ratepayers of the country. They could
not stop at the appointment of chaplains, but must also pro-
vide chapels and all the paraphernalia necessary for con-
ducting the ceremonies of the Roman Catholic Church
with proper sclemnity. It would likewise be necessary
to provide schoolmasters and schoolmistresses ; and if the
Government were once to take a step in that direction, he
could not see, if they provided religious aid for criminals,
how they could with anything like consistency refuse to
provide spiritual aid for the poor Roman Catholics out of
prison. (Hear, hear.) With reference to the remarks made
on a former evening by the right hon. gentleman the mem-
ber for Buckinghamshire (Slr Disraeli), he should say that
he did not think there were any "popular rights" endan-
gered by opposing the present bill. The Church of Eng-
land had taken her stand on a broader foundation when 300
years ago she had shaken off the Church of Rome, and,
later again, when she freed herself from German theology.
He asked all Protestants, both Churchmen and Noncon-
formists, to oppose the bill, because there was no grievance
sufficiently urgent to require the contemplated change. If
this bill passed, it would open up similar demands for the
appointment of Roman Catholic chaplains to pauper lunatic
asylums, unions, and workhouses—(hear, hesr)—and he
considered delay essentially necessary to give the country
an opportunity of really understanding the magnitude of
the proposed alteration.

Sir L. PALK seconded the motion, and in doing so he
made no apology to Roman Catholic members, because he
had no intention of treating it as a religious matter. It
was a sound and good principle that every prisoner con-
fined in the gaols of this country should have the best eccle-
siastical advice and assistance it was possible to confer on
him, and in that he fully concurred. He differed from the
right hon. gentleman (Mr. D sraeii) that a great principle
was involved, or that it was a step in the progress of civil
and religious liberty; and so tar from either one or the ether
being involved in the bill, it appeared to beer on its face a
compromise between contending opinions. Hear, hear.)
If a great principle was involved, he thought the bill
should not be a permissive bill, to be worked by an irre-
sponsible body of men who did not represent public opi-
nion ; but be made a general measure, and carried out cn
the authority and resp ,nsibility of the Government. It
was, he repeated, a miserable compromise to place on the
hands of magistrates in quarter sessions that power
which the Government were afraid to use, and of throwing
upon them the odium of taxing the ratepayers, who were
already overburthened with local taxation. (Hear, hear.)
Every one in that house admitted that of all the contests
that took place these religious discussions were the most
painful; and, whilst they deprecated those constant acri-
monious disputes and quarrels between Churchmen and
Dissenters and Roman Catholics and Protestants, they were
about to infl ct the nuisance on the county magistrates of
England. (Hear, hear.) Year after year they were plac-
ing in the hands of the magistrates powers which they did
not formerly possess of taxing the people without being re-
presented, to an extent that was assuming a magnitude that
was attracting the attention of the country at large, and it
the principle contained in the bill were adopted, Roman Ca-
tholic chaplains must be appointed to reformatories, poor-
law unions, workhouses, and lunatic asylums, which would
greatly increase the present heavy amount of local burdens.
(Hear, hear.) The Roman Catholic priest in this country
was as highly educated and as honourable a man as the
clergyman of the Church of England, and they would not
have any right to make any difference in the amount of sa-
lary paid to each of them. To what extent therefore were
they prepared to carry this principle? and it would be well
for them to consider what sum it would be necessary to
raise to work this bill. He thought there was great incon-
sistency in the conduct of the Secretary of State for the
Home Department in bringing in this bill when it was con-
sidered that he had dismissed the Roman Catholic chaplain
from Dartmoor convict prison, and had withheld his rea-
sons for so doing.

Mr. MORRITT, as a new member, claimed the indul-
gence of the house whilst he offered a few remarks in
support of the bill. There was not a more thorough-
going Protes'ant, nor one more attached to his religion,
than he was ; and it was because he saw no new principle
in the bill, or anything to be afraid of, that he supported
it. (Hear, hear.) He was surprised at the argument that
had been urged against the lot I—that because Roman
Catholic prisoners did not send for the priest, th-refore he
should not be sent to them. It was because they did not
send for him that it app and to him the priest should be
sent to them. He had no such puerile ideas that the bill
wr.uld undermine the Protestant Church—(hear)—and with
regard to the other argument, that if they appointed Roman
Catholic chaplains they could not refuse to appoint Mor •
monite chaplains, and every other description of chaplain,
he reminded the house that the appoir.tments would be
under the control of the magistrates, and it was not likely
that they would make such appointments as those he had
referred to. The opponents of the bill had forgotten that
regula ly-paid Roman Catholic priests were appointed to
our military hospitals—and, as a soldier, he could say that
he had never heard any disagreement between the Roman
Catholic priest and the Protestant chaplain in a regiment,
but, on the contrary, they harmonised well, anc were the
best of friends. (Hear, hear.) At present every Roman
Catholic prisoner had a right to send for a Roman Catholic
priest ; and he thought it was much better to pay one to
attend to the spiritual wants of all the Roman Catholic
prisoners, than for a number of Roman ( atholic priests to
be running about the place, like a flock of sheep, looking
for the par icular prisoner who had sent for him. (hear,
and laughter.) A Roman Catholic priest was sent to a
of eternity;
under sentence of
dßeoamthananCdaothnotihiceervnevirget but who was able to
say that he, as well as our prisoners, was not on the verge
of eternity ? and therefore he considered it was their
boun.ten duty to provide those prisoners with spiritual
instruction. The admission of Roman Catholic priests to
our gaols could not in any way undermine the Esta-
blished Church; and, in showing a proper liberality and
goodness of feeling towards their Roman Catholic
brethren, they would strengthen rather than weaken the
Church of England. (Hear, hear.) He considered the
payment of the pries is ought to be made by the Go.
vernment, and not out of the pockets of the rate.

payers. He was most arxious that the bill should go into

eft: tdi ee
ts. committee,l t
h had
dhbeene
been urged
wouldeg ableabiene t
to Catholic priest pri-
sons
would arise in appointing a Roman
thtoe dbiislcluetshsatfudiiiffiY
prisoners confined, Where that was the case the e
where there were only three or font. Roman Catholio
magis-
trates could say to the Roman Catholic priest, If you choose
to attend those gentlemen—(laughter)—go in, and they
could ply him according to his work, (Hear.)
Mr. KENDALL looked upon the bill as the mistake of
the session. It was a great mistake on the part of those
who support it to do so because it was a Government bill,
and it was a greater mistake than all that it had received the
support of those who were called the Conservative leaders
in that house, and the champion; of the Protestant religion.
(Hear.) The feeling outside the house was very strong
against the measure, and great astonishment was felt that
it should have received support in that house. There was
a bid on both sides—or it looked so much like a bid, that
those who had not the means of knowing to the contrary
were suspicious of it —to obtain certain support in that house,
(Hear.) He held the bill to be a mistake. As a measure
of toleration simply to supply the spiritual wants of the
Roman Catholics, be should be the last man to oppose it;
but he did not look upon it in that light, but rather as a bill
of peril to the Protestant religion. The bill not only en-
couraged Roman Catholicism, but it would use actual com-
pulsion to discourag Protestantism, and on that ground he
should avail himself of every legitimate means of upsetting

Mr. G. DUiT vaid that, av the majority of the Scotch