The Sun.
London, England, 1839-06-25 00:00:00

men opposite appeared to be blind to a scriptural plan of
education, and had ingeniously contrived to divert the at-
tention of the public mind from the real question. All
that was said by the Government was, that this sum
was only to be given for the present—they said nothing as
to the future. The worst feature in the plan abandoned
was, that the'Government proposed to grant the public
money to Clergymen of different religious persuasions, but
even under the proposed new system it was said the Com-
mittee of Privy Council would not feel themselves pre-
eluded from giving aid to any school that might apply for
it. And there was nothing whatever to prevent the Go-
verement reverethg to their old scheme. The Hon. and
Learned Member for Dublin had endeavoured to vindicate
the Douay version of the Bible, and had said there was
very little difference between that and the Protestant
cession; but the Hon. and Learned Member, in his zeal to
defend the Douay version, had forgot that in that version
there was a sentence in which the Roman Catholics de-
fended (as the Protestants called it) their idolatrous
worship. If the Douay version was allowed to be intro.
duped, what security was there against the introduction of
die S )cinian and Unitarian versions of the Scriptures ? Such
a system could necessarily end in general sectarianism.
He put it to the Noble Lord, considering the sthte of the
country—considering the intensely earnest pleading of the
Church of England on the subject—considering the grow.
ing impression th* something must be done for education
—( Ministerial cheersf—that it should approach as much
as possible towards a national system of education —( Hear,
hear)—and that the only one was furnished by the Church
Establishment.—(Oh, oh I) Why not come forward ant
place himself at the bead of the Church, call on the Go-
vernment of the country to bestow on it their liberality,
and, with God's blessing, he might serve the country in one
of the Ines: difficult and perilous crises in which it could be
placed ?—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. LANGDALE said the Noble Lord opposite be
longed to that section who were most consistent in the
conduct they were pursuing. He could understand the
consistency of the Noble Lord when he said to the Esta-
blished Church alone should the education of the people
of England be consigned. But he did not so well under-
stand the ground taken by the Noble Lord the Member
for North Lancashire. if he (Mr. Langdale) understood
it, it was this--that he was w itling to give education to
all the people of England except the English Roman
Catholics.__( Hear, hear.) Ile (Mr. Langdale) acknow
ledged the number of petitions on the table—he ad-
mitted there was a strong feeling on the subject through•
out the country, but considering the means' adopted
for raising that cry, it was wondct tul that the expression
of feeling had not been more strong. But had there
been any one instance in wlsieh a public meeting had been
called to give the sanction of the people to the question?
. There was not a single hi-tance ; fnr where meetings had
been called the supporters of the Government plan had
been excluded from them.—( Hew., hear.) 'He wished the
Hoxse to consider the tone of these petitions. Did the
Noble Lord, the Member for North Lancashire, adopt
the tone of them ? There was no term so abusive—there I
was no imputation so infamous thet had not been used in

..
1 these p ti:ions against a particu'as class of religionists..
If the Noble Lord did concur in these petitions, he ought
to adopt the tone, aid concur in the plans brought forward
in another place, and propose the repeal of Catholic
Emancipation altogether.—( !leer, hear ) If they ex-
cluded any particular clasa, it was a breach of tolera-
tion—if they excluded the Roman Catholics from shoeing,
in a public grant, they made them pay the penalty of
' their religiors A great deal had been said about the
(
State conscience. Those who talked in this manner, in
order to carry out their consistency should only allow the
• ,National School Society.- To be consistent, and support
the Eatabliked Church on the State conscience, they
ought to refuse all grants to any class not educated in the
Established apligion. To what class was it that they were
now refusing a rarticip.ition in the grant raised from the
public taxes, to which all contributed ? Was there nothing
due in satisfaction to the Roman Catholics of this county
I from the course adopted towards them formerly ? During
the time of swore persecution they had raised funds fur
the education of their children for the support of religion ;
they had invested large sums in the funds of Foreign
States, under the faith of a solemn treaty. That fund
was taken possession of under the plea of an almost obso-
lete enactment, and applied for the purposes of the State.
lle did not wish to us: irritating language, but probably
the application of that sum was not to any much snore holy
purposes than those superstitious usages under which the
money was seized upon. It had Cecri said that funds
ought not to be granred for the purpose of educating in a
teligion which was wrong. If this was carried through-
out, the parties using such language would be con-
. siatent • with tl e nselvea. But in the East they
made the sante grants which were now asked for
here ; in the Western colonies and the penal settlements
they were doing the same ; and they would hardly venture
to refuse to the millions of ireltad that which they said it
was not consistent with their conscience to grant to the
poor, the helpiesa, and destitute in this country.—( Hear.)
Mr. LITTON said that Ro man who had a regard for
fhe Protestant Establishment in this country, or its truths,
could sustain the proposition of the Noble Lord; and he en-
treated the House not to be misled- by any assertion that
the original plan of the Government had been abandoned
in arty respect.—( Hear, hear.) He differed altogether
from the observations of the •Hon. Member for Leeds,
whose speech was intended to satisfy the House that the
I Goverment had abandoned their previous object. The
' truth was that the plan was only postponed, and not aban-
doned, till the Protestant was found asleep at his post.
And many taking up these resolutions would find in the
one a fixed intention on the part of the Government ex-
pressed, and in the ether a full power of carrying out that
intention reserved. His first objection to the plan was
that it led young minds to doubt ; another objection was,
that so far from its being a plan likely to lead to
peace, it would engender discord, strife, and heart
burnings. ( Hear, hear, bear.) He would ask
any Hon. Member whether he thought it right to send the
I youth of this country to schools where all religions were
treated alike ? For his own part, he dreaded the admis-
eiun of Roman Catholic Priests late Protestant schools,
because lie looked upon proselytism as the leading and
guiding spirit of the Roman bathalic Clergy.—( Hear,
hear) He could not but lament the course adopted by
tine Noble Lord, fur he had over and over again attacked
Om Clergy of the Church of England, as well as
F fle Clergy of the Chureh of Leland, and done
all in his power to lower and degrade , them.—( Hear.)
The Noble Lord w..s an enemy to the Established Church,
and lie ( Mr. Litton) wished the people should know that
the present Ministry wished to lower the dignity of the
Established Church. Let not the people of England be
deceived. lie said it negatively, nay, he positively
affirmed that the people of England should not agree to
this grant. If they did, they would see as in Ireland that
National Education would be deserted by the Protestant
clergy; the education in Ireland was hot National Educa-
tion bat priests' education. He would promise the House
and the country that if they agreed to this grant they would
be deceived.
Mr. MORGAN JOHN O'CONNELL could not
, sufficiently admire the ingenuity of the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman in avoiding the question before .the House.
But he hod mixed a strange kind of over refinement
with his ingenuity in endeavouring to persuade the public
that if the Government succeeded in the plan before the
House they would lull the public mind and establish the
plan which they had postponed. If this lulling should take
place, it would be just as easy for them to establish the
postponed plan, if this vote should be rejected, as if it
should be accepted. On this topic be was surprised at
the earnestness with which it had been insisted that all
plans of National Education should be under the Ebntroul
of the Established Church—now, if such were the case, the
argument of the lion. and Learned Gentlemen would
apply as well against the vote of last year, for dividing the
grant between the two societies, ts against the present plan.
The Hen. and Learned Gentlerea:i had alluded to Ireland
—this he thought was unkind to the Noble Lord-who had
ted the opposition on a former night. It struck him as
rather strange that Honourable Gentlemen opposite
should be now opposing what they themselves had been
desirous should be done in Ireland—namely, to give the
grant to separate sections instead of giving* it to one
general scheme of education. The Noble Lord had en-
deavourod to do in this country what had been done- in
Pel and on this subject ; he had then proposed to do in
England what Hen. Gentlemen opposite had wished him.
to do in Iceland, and he still encountered opposition. But
education was not the real cause of this opposition, and
Hon. Gentlemen opposite wished to take advantage of a
party watch-word, which had added three-fold to the
bitterness of religious differences. He would not allude to
religion ; they bad already had a sermon on the Trinity
front the Hoe. Member for Coleraine, which he humbly
thought wes a bad taste. If they agreed to divide the
grant beta ern these two Societies, it would create a roost
invidious distinction, because the only -• class that was
excluded frsni the benefit of the British and Foreign
School Society, because they would not adopt the
version of the Scriptures adopted by the Established
Church, was the Roman Catholics. Was this their con-

science ? All these sects could not he right, therefore
they would knocaingly admit error, but they would
rigidly exclude one particular class of opinions. Was not
this exciting the odium theologians in its worst form ?
There are many thousands in the large manufacturing
towns who would be excluded by the regulation alluded to
—many who were in the lowest state of poverty and
i.inorance, end who were expose:l to all the temptations
incident to Ding in crowded towns, whom they thus took
upon themselves to prevent receiving a small pittance, not
from their own endpwments, but from those taxes to which
Obey all contribute alike, for the purpose of receiving in-
struction. If the House should be led away by their prejudices
to refuse this grant, they might be orthodox Christians, but
they were not friends of social order, and Hon. Gentlemen
would have gained a triumph fatal to the best interests of
humanity. He trusted the Government would follow out
their plan, which would entitle them to the gratitude of all
tight thinking men ; and when the present cry should be
past, he trusted they would be able to carry the intentien in
favour of the holy cause of moral, religious, and National
Education into execution before many years had elapsed.
Mr. CRESSWELL said that the Government had
appointed a Committee of the Privy Council to superin-
tend the plan of National Education. A majority of
five of that House had determined that this was not
so objectionable as to call for a rescinding of the Order in
Council.—(Cheers.) Ile objected to voting this grant,
because he thought that on this important subject the
other branch of the Legislature ought to have been con.
suited. It was attempting to carry out the Government
Van by a mere manoeuvre, which had been nlludcd to in

a Paruphlet, emanating from a body of the supporters of
the Noble Lcrd. (The Hon. and Learned Gentleman here
read an extract from the papers of the Central Society
of Education, bearing out his views.) This grant
was sufficient to enable the Government to bribe
every charity school in till kingdom to submit to the in-
spection. lie hoped that this scheme for taking away the ju-
risdiction of the House of Lords had not origiratcd with the
Nuble Lord, although it bad emanated from his supporters.
He called on the Committee of the Privy Council to state
cltfinUivt•ly what their
were, in order that, if the
House approved of them, they night vote them, and if
they disapproved r the', they might record their
Toltet, however feebly, against them. Such perhaps
*tit- not the of the
wNoble Lord, but it was that