The Sun.
London, England, 1837-05-24 00:00:00

•
tion the Right Hon. Gentlemen made of them.] lthadhg
stated by the Right Hoe. Baronet opposite that he c
( e of
Rice) had iteked who would dare to enforce the law in se
a refusal to pay Church-rates. Now, he had never asks
el a
such question but what he did say was that the pres:et star c%.
the law was sm.') that no effectual means existed to enforeFostelc
payment of the rate in any case where the vestry had ref
_us
Hear.) He said ~where was the House of Conirneneo.
that tvouls: 'lee a Government the power of making a "such'
abling the churchteettlen to enforce the payment sp a Coh,d
tale 9" He said that, and he would repeat that it we the
derig-erotie in the highest degree to give a single aficeecerere)
power of taxing the public without their con..gent•—( ouch 60
Where was the Minister who would dare to pre:P°sei Dares
esrerintent ?—( Hear. ) Would the Right flonouraiee ble
uet oppelite do so ?—( Hear, hear.) The Right 1-10°,',,,-e5O
Baronet had made rypeal to the gerterpity of the ittbose
in fee-us of the claims which the Church had UPI:, bear,
xho property subject to them.—(lca horp'i
hear.) But he scorned to have forgotten that Lord Alt the
plan, of nhich he spoke en favourably, was simila t be
present in that particular—( Heel., hear)—and now
that be
was eringirtg to the Right Hon. Baronet's recollection th
supported the same principle in that measure which
.the
serif mentained, he could not help saying that the Right sof
Gentleman seas practising a delusion upon the 11°II:e_'daipg
merely brought allusion forward for the purpose 01: (the
a further party feature to the debate.—( Cheers.) 11Hom
Chancellor of the Exchequer) might mention the Right tee
Gentleman the Member for Tamworth as his authority for he
part of his measure relating- to landed proprietors ; lee ei
himself, when in office, had stated upon other questinns the
I wh:eh the same principle with regard to the burdens 0!,.05e
land v'
oestiers was concerned, that he wished to lighten those
burdens as reuels possible.—( Hear.) Such, thethfthi,
the arguments by which the ease of the opponents
measure was supported. Hut further, were Hon. Gento,
op,
opposite aware that very many of the suggestions they .00w of
posed were those of most eminent Churchmen ? " who
them venture to attack Dr. Barton, the Regius Professor,
and
had, in fact. suggested a total extinction of Church-rate:l'os of
proposed that that object should be effected by Zile Wisest,
a graduated tax upon the property of the Church.---(wits s
hear.) Another eminent Churchman recommended, boo
similar view that a general valuation of Church properti Plat
be made. ( Hear, isear.) Lord Henley also proposed a roi,e
somewhat similar in its nature', coupling with it the aPP.f
be
ment of ten unnaid Commissioners, and woe unto hilligeset
came under the lash of the Honourable and Gallant A"o3ote
for Lincoln.—(A laugh.) But he need not Mo'6°,o FN.
cases ; suffice it to say that there had been scarcely ettb' soOC
position upon the subject which had not originated tyi the
high Church authority.—( Cheers.) He would 04,1 die
House a practical proof of the ignorance of those who '1 pill
present management of the Church-lands. In 1817, te. Pf
was introduced into that House with reference to slop
the Church property connected with the see of Canter ftbe
and the House would scarcely believe such an example „r es•
way of drawing bills with respect to letting lands had ever
re,
isted. In that Bill all the blanks with reference to tbeeeeS
pairs of the property, &c., were left unfilled, and this sbewrie,
the manner in which these sort of things were done. /cone
of " They left it to Parliament to till them up.") but it
ment f Yes, they no doubt left it to Parliarrient th
ief
sufficed to show the want of practical information ri,"'"t
tb
owners of Church-lands had upon such matters. ynd pita
Act, while it gave him one illustration, also afford„
stint'
the means of Illustrating another branch of the quesoolt
Hon. Gentlemen opposite were sceptical of the facts ,sad
which the measure was founded, and they asked atgai-Tty s°
again how it wee possible to improve the Church prePe o,eo
as to leave the surplus proposed to be created by the fr,a. des
of this! plan. This act of the Archbishop supplied all net
sired answer ; for he found in it a recital to the effeeti eteJ
the remaining lessees (alluding to the lessees to be 8 °oh
by the Act) had only a temporary interest in the leases, 14 or
was not sufficient to induce them to lay out money in tbe ripg
provement of the lands, and that some stronger and more lajost
inducement was necessary in order to make them dcTien
which was required for the purposes of that Act." „
It
was another recital, involving the very principle itSe"a eso
was in the Church Temporalities (Ireland) Bill, an
to the effect, " That whereas the tenure of Church laeost
Ireland was such as did not lead to the improvement, figs
land or the profit of the tenant, and therefore that 'their(
become desirable to have another mode of tenure for t)le „riot°
security of the Church, and for the advantage of Pvirsble
holding therefrom." Then what did the Right 1-100°c,,i100
Gentleman mean when he said that the additional ; fie
could not be given without doing injustice to the lessees;:etice
(the Chancellor of the Exchequer) denied that any 'nl Bill'
was done to the lessees of Church property under this 010
He bad had many interviews and much communicatioa 000
persons in that situation, and he denied that any injustiee,_t tie
be done them, or that they were possessed of the idea fu,a,felt
justice was intended towards them. They were perfeett/..,61
satisfied that a surplus might be produced without any ini,`",,p)
being done either to them or to the Church.—(Hear,
floes
Nay, more, he was quite ready to receive any comMtlei°,3,
on this subject, and he hoped that should any such coet'ists
cations be made they would come before the House we,acOr
Committee en the Bill, when they would have full and itt-iser
portunity of' considering the cases of the lessees, and 010
there was any foundation for the assertion that injustice t°„.' for
was intended by this Bill. These were all very fit subjee"is,
the Committee. But he begged the House to consider,o id
they were not now considering the Bill with reference 'is of
details. The question before the House was the prineiP;rett
the 13111. They had before them petitions from the 1011
mass of the people favourable to the principle of this 401
though at the same time he did not deny that there were 010,,a
petitions from those adverse to it. But he again 131.etlei
on the House, that it was the principle of the measure that dc'
were now about to decide on. They were now about toglit
tide on the question, whether or not a Bill \should be bt°tbreir
in upon a certain principle, which they would affirm s s
vote that night. Would they give the country the o°7 e•
SOl
judging of the principle of the measure about to be introollb at
as well as of its details ; or would they, by joining Witco,'
Hon. Gentleman, with whom they had few principles in Id°
mon, to whom they said that they would go so far with Oil
but no farther, to intercept the progress of the measare: or
deprive the Government of the means of settling a gres!,tyess'
tated question ?—( Hear.) He (the Chancellor of the 0°
quer) trusted, nay, he felt assured, the House would "-fee
such thing, but that they would give him an opportunitlean esti
troducing the Bill. If the Right Hon. Gentleman wu;,,liti
last addressed the House entertained any doubt as to their the
of the proposed surplus—as to the facts, that is, on r"br.' 0• et
measure proceeded—why, let the Night Hon. Gentleroso‘
once say that he would consent to a full, cOrePlete'sti°s
searching inquiry into the mode in which the lands itt (lagrtf;
had been administered, and into the value of the PrnPer-°$
and let an opinion thus be formed of the desirableness ;cent
of improving that system. He had no fears as to thebe-rf°
of such an inquiry.—( Hear.) Let not the Hon. Menl-sClirf
St. Andrew's imagine that he (the Chancellor of the '-',Pet°
quer) was, for one, indifferent to the question of the el,!'r the
religious education, or of the accommodation provided °neer'
people in places of worship. It had been well and Plb6
fully said by one of the greatest ornaments of Dissent-step'
need scarcely say how cordially concurred in the observiratios
that he who would weaken the force of religious 01)14,001;
must be a fool, while he who would destroy it must he °Fre
man.—( Hear, hear ) He was as eager as his Hon' glee':
could be to see the utmost possible extent given to the ia
of religious instruction, but at the same time he ena coal'
help feeling that the best and most appropriate use tobset herd:
fundsderived from the property of be made of th
was one that would bring about the restoration of redid are°
peace and harmony.—( Hear, hear.) He for onc, Were
think that the words of the preacher on the Sabbath-Ives'
much aided and enforced by acrimonious and sectarian Ives,
sions, carried on during the week, or by political 0115 re'
arising out of the relative positions of different sects ;bar
garded these funds.—( Hear.) Our religion was 00.00 in
mony and peace, and it did seem to him that discuss fly
which political hatreds mixed themselves up were tota
et'
reign to its nature.—(Cheers.)
Sir R. PEEL then rose, and was received with loud chsrs'
ing from all sides of the House. As soon as Filene's: w'YoutcS
stored the Hon. Member proceeded t—Thirty-live he
had the Right Hon. Gentleman consumed before hop)
Tit
the reel subject under discussion.—(Lanefuclioe
Tairty-ftve minutes had he expended in graceful Pr; 1814";
before coming to the burthen of his song.—( Renewc" re of
ter.) She same seece of time should not be constitirl-rges
him (Sir R. Peel): in stating the whole substance of his n,ees'
ment.—( Hear, hear.) What was the real state of the ;005
tion ? Here was one of the richest and most Pr°lsiPsted
countries visited by the light of heaven, in whiehe-Chtncf
direct contribution for the support of the Established iiurs
—that direct contribution being only through the Ineue, red
Church-rates—one by which time out of mid originlVeasee
landed and personal, but during the last three or four to
years chiefly the landed property, had been called 00,_.
tribute to the maintenance of the Established Churanrsoes
tenths of that property were in the possession of Peon 011
emmunion with that Church. Yet this prof' Rids
that their estates should be relieved from the bath's, 004
they so cheerfully bore, and that an equivalent for te'Cbtrl;,.
so abstracted fim this source should be found from thcosCier,
itself, on the single pretext of relieving ther.s'"en veto
Outs scruples of those who paid towards that bu oloora
haps one-tenth only.—( Hear, hear.) Argue the guile hef°,l
they would, that, and that only, was the proposito_orai.ere
the House.—( Hear, hear.) And where was thejege is
to be found? The framers of this measure fatljur:tit tviTos
the fabrics of the Church must be sustained." a old !ied
the last six months they had said more—theY I,te ssta' ses
the equivalent out of schich those fabrics vvere to 110.0erne
must be provided by the Stt.te. But now tbc.Y roPrictetc
with a proposition that nine-tenths of the landed l'of. this foie
who had no conscientious scruples to the paYelen%tvbich
n or
should be relieved from a contribution 50,,e0rehree tion
estates were now subject, for which, whether 4-,1"o„ red !veer
Dissenters, they had stipulated for a correspona
hv thenasthe°
in the price of those estates, were purchasee sem. -to
and to whieh their estates were liable if they rerc_irossiolt
of
by descent ; and that an equivalent for this c
the fundsos
the landed proprietors should be obtained front La sv
the Church.—( Hear.) Could it be denied
.otru of the teitg
substantially the proposition of the Ckancell looe preso it
chequer ?—( Heer, hear.) All sorts of ingeone, becaa jot'
were sought for in defence of this propositi;of meet 00
was well known what must be the jedgme.ratises of
partial man upon it. They had heard the intl)," the tit's' beet
the Irish Parliament for -basing abolishect
,bat 10;ttfc0
agisttnent ; they had heard the condeinnatriooti:ed the Lsoft
issued against those lay legislators who had b_Doesises. 14este
in order to increase the value of their own paosstaance ?e-(livsd
what were they going to do in the present tioncieethc
roe
hear.) Did they deny the liability of the vet they P 01:1
tion that had existed time out of mind ? d I
an pretended
to relieve the land from that liability,