The Sun.
London, England, 1839-02-18 00:00:00

ANNUAL PREMIUM TO AiSVRR

X 1000.

Or a
Policy of

PRESENTATION OF A SERVICE

OF PLATE TO MR. ROEBUCK.

(From the Bath Guardian.)
Yesterday being the day appointed for presenting this
public testimonial of esteem from the Electors of Bath,
the Hall was crowded to excess before the hour ap-
pointed, so great was the anxiety and interest felt on
the occasion. At twelve o'clock Mr Roebuck, accom-
panied by a great many of the respectable citizens, his
friends and supporters, entered the platform, amongst
whom were Messrs. W. Hunt, J. Smith, Crisp, M.
Harris, Passmore, Williams, Allen, Cottle, Harman,
and Goldstone, of the Council Mr. Barry, Capt.
Davis, RN., Mr. Ferrill, &c. His appearance was
hailed with one simultaneous burst of enthusiastic cheer-
ing, which last for some time. On silence being re-
stored, the Mayor was called to take the Chair.
The MAYOR then rose, amid continued cheering, and
said he had been requested by the Committee appointed
to conduct the arrangements for presenting a service of
plate to J. A. Roebuck, Esq., as a mark of esteem, for
the very great and valuable services he had rendered,
as formerly a Representative of this city, to preside on
the occasion. In attending to that duty, he felt it ne-
cessary, in the first place, to advert to some animadver-
sions to which his conduct, in this respect, bad exposed
him. He would not, however, mention the source
whence they emanated. It had been said that the
Mayor, as a public officer, had no right to prcs'de at the
meeting of public bodies, but on three occasions. The
first was at the Council Chamber, where he was expected
to act the part of a constable to preserve order ; the second
at the bench of magistrates, where he was engaged to deal
with rogues and vagabonds and seigsl them to prison ; and
the third was when at the festive tr.ible, whereat'-,s health
is proposed, and all he has to do is to get up and thank
the company. Now he differed totally from such a
limited view of his business. He did not consider he had,
by filling that office, to relinquish the common rights and
privileges of a citizen.—(Cheers.) He had the franchise
both as an elector and a burgess—he had the power of
expressing his opinions, and the right to act upon them,
as well as others, nor would he be deterred from using
the liberty he was entitled to by the wish or opinion of
any other human being.—( Great cheering.) He would
not shrink on any occasion, whateverothers unju,tly think,
from openly acting on this unfettered course of conduct.
tie bad another remark to make, as he wished to stand
well with his fellow-citizens, whether within these walls
or els. where. Many had said he should not be here stand-
ing with one who had not the votes of the burgesses of the
Borous h. It was urged in the first piece, that Mr. Roebuck
had not a majority of electors with him, and, therefore, he
shoul.d not have been seen here. But he would show that
he had not only a majority, but an overwhelming majority
—(Cheers)—in his favour. When, two or three years
ago, he numbered on the pell•book 1,052 voters to
support him—the gentleman who opposed him only suc-
ceeded in obtaining 760. But he would go further, for
this only made him the Representative of a large
majority. He had it from testimony which could not
be &sputed, that he then virtually represented the
whole city. It was a fact established upon the moat
indubitable proof that certain parties employed every
scheme and effort, which the cunning of political
enmity could devise and put into effect, for the purpose
of keeping away the voters from the poll. Every
mean menceuvre that could be thought of, and
every intimidating influence was employed for this
purpose.—(True, true.) It was also a fact, not
to be denied, that after his election the Learned
Gentleman was called on by certain individuals,
who bad not supported him, desiring him to use
his exertions, in Parliament, in promoting some Par-
liamentary business for them. And how did he treat
them ? Did he say No, you did not vote for me, and,
therefore, do rot expect me to attend to your affairs ; I
will
-not assist you in your object ? Nothing like it ; he
cheerfully listened to their requests, throwing aside all
vindictive feeling, and exercised his power as a Member
of the Legislature to further their views. By this
he became in effect the Representative of the
whole city of Bath.—(Great cheers.) There were other
circumstances to which he was called on to allude
which established the claims of the Learned Gentleman
to the respect of the citizens. His services in the Bri-
tish Senate :could not but impose a lasting sense of
his worth. In the first place he would remind them of
the great question of the Abolition of Slavery. At the
time when that engaged the attention of Parliament
he stood firm in his place, and assisted to break the
shackles of nine millions of human beings, before that
time enthralled in slavery.—(Cheers.) That only
would have been sufficient to induce him (the Mayor)
unflinchingly to stand by his side on the present oc-
casion.—(Tremendous cheering.) But he would not
rest there ; he would call to mind when he lifted his
voice against the monopoly of the East India Company,
which so long existed ; and also that of the Bank of
England, which, through his exertions and those of other
Members, was chartered with restrictions more ad-
vantageous to the public. He would also mention his
services in effecting a reform in the Court of Chancery,
and in a Bill for reducing the salaries of the high officers
of the State. But he would now bring them to that im-
portant measure, Municipal Reform. without which they
would not have stood in that room this day.—( Loud and
continued Cheering.) He bad also aided in obtaining
Local Courts, and thus bringing cheap law home to their
own doors ; and in endeavonring to rectify every defect
in the registration. In promoting the Bill for regis-
tering the births and marriages of Dissenters he had
contributed his assistance, and thus proved himself a
friend to civil and religious liberty.—(Cheers.) He was
happy to embrace this occasion, to bear his testimony
to the Learned Gentleman's legislative services; and
having now done his duty, so far as to justify his own
conduct, and to vindicate the cause of which he was
proud to be a supporter, he would now just direct their
attention to the more immediate object of the meeting,
which was that of presenting to the Learned Gentle-
man the splendid service of plate now before them, as a
public testimonial of the high estimation in which the ci-
tizens of Bath held his valuable services, in the perform-
ance of which he had so long evinced such pre-eminent
activity, zeal, and assiduity.--(Cheers.) He would
now do no more than call on the gentleman on whom
devolved the pleasing task of requesting him to accept
the memorial, and addressing him as deputed to repre-
sent the sentiments of the subscribers.—(Cheers.) The
service of plate, which was exhibited in front of the
platform, consisted of one soup tureen and ladle, four
corner dishes and covers, two sauce boats and ladles,
elegantly wrought, and beautifully chased and orna-
mented, by Messrs. Merrifield, Burden, and Mitchell.
Mr. Wet. HUNT, addressing himself to Mr. Roe-
buck, spoke as follows :—I have the honour to be
deputed on this occasion to present to your accept-
ance this service of plate, as a small but decisive
testimony of public esteem and gratitude. In doing
this, 1 beg to assure you, that this acknowledgment
springs from an ardent desire entertained by a large
proportion of the electors and inhabitants of this city
to record their sense of your general and political me-
rits,' and still more especially of your service, in the
House of Commons during your representation of this
city. With a keen remembrance of those services, we
feel hew inadequate such an acknowledgment as this is
to their value and importance ; but when it is accom-
panied with a public feeling in your favour, of no com-
mon warmth and cordiality—when that feeling is based
upon a conviction of your usefulness as a statesman and
legislator—when, too, it is coupled with regret that your
services in such a sphere should be at all suspended—
and when it is expressive of the hope that at no distant
day those services will be again restored to us—(Great
cheering)--1 say, when you attach these considerations
to this memorial, I am pi rsuaded you will not deem it
unworthy your acceptance. To one actuated by the
principles of justice, humanity, and sound patriotism, it
can afford but little pleasure, even in the acknowledg-
ment of his services, to listen to a recital of them.
I shall not enforce upon you anything so irksome ;
but as I cannot altogether forego some allusion to
your Parliamentary conduct, you must allow me to
glance at one or two of its leading features, and that, too,
as much in justice to ourselves, as to you, since it will, in
some degree, prove how mach reason we had to choose
you for our representative, and how entirely you ful-
filled the expectations that were formed of you.—
(Cheers.) Of those features, then, the first that occurs
to me is your political consistency. The principles and
objects which you avowed to us at our first public
meeting in 1832 arc those which you have struggled for
and maintained to the present hour. Those principles I
were not merely uttered, but printed and circulated
throughout the city. With these publications, therefore,
your Parliamentary conduct may be easily compared ;
and I am persuaded it would puzzle your most captious
enemy to lay their finger upon a line that your conduct
has been inconsistent with.— (Cheers.) You there de- I
clared your concern to abolish Slavery, to promote
Education, to obtain the Vote by Ballot, Triennial
Parliaments, and an Extension of the Suffrage, and
upon all these important questions your conduct has
been the transcript of your promise ; and though your
efforts, in common with other friends of Reform, have
not as yet been crowned with success, yet you have
way for future struggles, and entwined for
paved the
yourself that distinction and honour which justly Ewaits
a p, rsevering course of public integrity,.—(Loud cheers.)
As another characteristic of your Parliamentary con-
duct, allow me to refer to your diligence and attention.
We know, from the magnitude and unseasonable hours
of Parliamentary business, that attention to it can only
be maintained through a large sacrifice of time, ease,
and convenience ;
with you it was not unfrequently at-
tended with another difficulty, I mean the impediment
of ill health ; yet, notwithstanding these circumstances,
it is as rare that you were absent from the House, and

never that I remember, upon any question of im-
portance. Such vigilance is indeed public virtue,
and we should be indifferent to our own interests,
and regardless of common gratitude, if we
did not particularly remember in it our present acknow-
ledgment.—(Cheers.) If to the qiialities I have al-
luded, we add your abilify to give currency to your
opinions, and force to your principles, the faculty you
possess of detectin2 error, and resisting oppression—of
enforcing the claims of justice, liberty, and sound policy,
a faculty so amply illustrated in your pleadings before
the Lords and Commons ; if, I say, we take the sum
of these qualities, they will comprehend that which
constitutes a good statesman and an upright and valu-
able representative. We consider you to have main-
tained both these characters, and we leg your
acceptance of this memorial as a proof of our
esteem and confidence. Accept it, then, Sir, with the
warmest wishes. of us all for your public usefulness,
your personal welfare, and your domestic happiness.
May many years be granted to you, and may each suc-
ceeding year find you in a wider sphere of political use-
fulness; and among other advantages, may your labours
obtain you a name, a remembrance, and a place among
the friends and benefactors of mankind.---(Loud and con-
tinued cheering.) Mr. Hunt then said, instead of
having a memorial on the plate, it had been thought
better to express it in writing, and which he would read.
It was as follows :

" TO JOHN ARTHUR ROEBUCK, ESQ.
" Sir,—Those who have inscribed their names in this
book, address you in a tone of deep and powerful feel-
ing, produced by the recent failure in our attempt again
to return 3ou as Member for Bath ; a failure, which
Lke. the touch of the Torpedo, shocked and benumbed
the people.
" But our astonishment was as momentary as it was
melancholy ; and has been followed by a burst of general
regret, only to be appreciated by those who behold its
ebullition. The 1 etely intoxicated city now mourns her
folly in bitterness, and through her wailings, she casts
reproaches upon the authors of preterit disorders, and
future evrongs !
You, Sir, are identified with the principles of ho-
nest government. We once gloriously supported you ;
and the aura of patriotism flowed full and ardently be-
ween the city and its representative ; while from him it
emanated with concentrated and powerful oratory,
amidst the great assembly of the Commons.
" In you, Sir, the patriotic fire continued to burn
with a splendid, sustained, and intense flame ; but
among us, the sources of its animation became faint
and exhausted, and we are left to deplore the fruits of
open voting, and a restricted suffrage ; others may think
differently, and we feel no disposition to cast blame upon
sincere opinions.
" But you. Sir. are the man really elected by the
people of Bath, and we feel called upon to oppose the
1.0111 toe pee of slanderaas invective, by offering to
you this public testimony of our respect and admiration;
elicited by that high-tempered honour, that-fearless spi-
rit, that pure patriotism, and that manly eloquence,
which have ranked John A'rthur Roebuck, among the
staunchest patriots of England."
Mr. ROEBUCK then rose amidst such a burst of
cheering that it was seine time before be could proceed.
He% ing ascended the table, and silence oleained, he
spoke nearly as follows :—lt has been said that the
events of a life may be crowded into a moment, and
never did I so completely feel the truth of the remark.
I feel as though the whole events of my life were now
crowded before me ; years gone by seem recalled, and
make me believe the past present, so that I cannot be
persuaded that I have lost the suffrages of the inhabi-
tants of Bath.—,Loud cheers.) I well know that this
testimonial of my friends now offered to me is not
offered in any other spirit than that of principle—
not for any personal efforts of mine, but for the prin-
ciples which I have advocated.—(Continued cheers.)
The things that I have done are not in themselves
great, but the principles that have been eiiehed
were great. If I have been your servant in carrying
out those great and mighty principles, and if in doing
so I have found your approbation, you now manifest
that approbation and remove the feeling I had when I
heard, or fancied I heard, that I had lost that appro-
bation. I feel that it is not to me but to future
statesmen this testimonial is addressed. I have been
told that popular applause is fleeting, but I do not
believe it ; I believe that he who stands forth and
adheres to truth, who fights not for party but for
principle, will meet with the people's approbation.—
(Much cheering.) This testimonial shows that the
people estimate what is worthy—that they know their
friends, and will adhere to them. Those who advo-
cate the people's cause have much to encounter that is
trying and painful to themselves, and they have
also the task of resisting splendid temptations.—
(Loud cheers.) You have told me, by the individual
whom you have deputed for the occasion, that you be-
lieve me to have been consistent and faithful in your
service, and that therefore you give me this splendid
testimonial, not splendid as it regards money's worth,
but as a tribute to an humble and, if I may say it with-
out vanity, an upright servant.—(Loud and continued
cheering.) Allow me to accept it : it is mine as a tri-
bute of your affection, and be assured that I shall ever
prize it as such.—(Tremendous cheers.) But I have
something more to do than to return you my thanks ;
my mind travels backward, and it also travels for-
ward. I will therefore allude to the past, and also
call your attention to the stir more important future.
And first permit me in speaking of the past, to direct
your attention to what is properly termed our defeat.
Why were we defeated ? is a question for the future as
well as for the past. Permit me, then, to address myself to
two classes, through whose apathy, indifference, or open
opposition, we were defeated. They feared that I was going
too rapidly towards the end, and that the hope and con-
fidence I had placed in the Ministers of the Crown
ought to have been continued. I now ask them whe-
ther I was wrong in my conjectures, and premature in
the withdrawal of my confidence.—(" No, no.") I
think that they who led the people then were mistaken
—honestly mistaken—that the impulse given by the
people in 1830, was retarded by that too slothful, too
indifferent combating those interests which ought to
have been put down. 1 said the Ministers were put-
ting down the flame of patriotism, and hes it not
gone cut?—(" Yes, yes," and cheers.) Have we
not a House of Commons that cannot do a single
act for the cause of the people ?—(" Yes," and cheers.)
Why is this ? Because a great mistake was made :
it was thought that the serpent was killed when he
was but scotched, and he has since raised his head
towering over us, and we have again to fight the
battle in 1839 which we fought in 1830.—( Hear, bear.)
I do not complain of the people who made this mis-
take ; but I have a right to show that they were
wrong and that I was right, to warn them to
be chary how they condemn an honest friend, and
throw themselves headlong to the enemy.—(Cheers.)
Let us, then, inquire whether any change has been
effected for the advancement of reform ? We have
a greater expenditure than we had in 1809 ; we have
a greater debt ; no improvement has been made in
education ; we are threatened with an increase of
taxes to put down liberty in America—(Hear)—we
have the prospect of war in the East ; we have
disturbances on the other side of the Channel ; and
we may have a general war before six months are
passed, because we have had cowardly leaders.—
(Immense cheering.) Where is the man that will
tell us we are one whit better than we were in
1829 ? We have Reform of Parliament ; but that
gained efficiency from the love of the people,
which is now gone, and we have a Parliament that
is powerless for good, whether it be so for evil
or not—(" No, no,")—is another matter. But was
there nothing else derived from this important lesson ?
There was, and I will toll it you. There was a feeling
existing in some minds that a representative should be
concerned for the interests of the town ; they believed
that a representative should fill the haberdasher? shops
—(Laughter, and much cheering)—they fancied that
there were to be more tarts, and pies, and puddings
eaten—that there were to be more gentlemen and
ladies drinking the hot water—that there were to be
more splendid carriages and servants and horses in the
town, all in consequence of having a Liberal represen-
tative for the place. Because there was not this, they
said it was high time to see what a Tory could do ; not
that I ever heard that Bath was worse off in the five years
that I represented it.—(Cheers.) These were to be the
gigantic consequences of a reformed Parliament :—Mil-
som-street was to be thronged with carriages and horses
and servants' the York-house was to be filled even to
the garrets, the Assembly-room was to be so thronged
that the complaint was to be made that there were too
many subscribers to the balls.—(Tremendous cheering.)
This is a ludicrous sort of a description, I own, but still
the question came round, and I ask whether the ad-
vantage was not to come in the way that I have de
scribed—whether more customers were not expected?
But, as I am willing to be judged by the results in the
first case, so in the second. I know that it was the duty
of a Representative to look after the interests of the
community, through the operation of just and equitable
laws. I looked to the community generally, not to the
haberdashers, and the hot water drinkers, nor to the
Assembly-rooms ; I had the interests of all in view, not,
as Member for Bath, but as a Member of the Commons
House of Parliament.—(Tremendous cheering.) I
would ask those who thus waver, how Bath looks now ?
Let them take the per contra 1837 against 1839, and put
the increased value of the latter to the credit of the Con-
servative Members.—(Great cheering.) The condo-
sion I have drawn is this, that the city of Bath should
take a lesson that they should look at their representa-
tive, not in his private connexion with them, but n a

public and rational one, that they should look to the
discharge of his duty as a general legislator ; and, if he
fail in the latter, to refer to others the duties he had
neglected to perfbrm.—(Loifil cheers.) I quarrel with
no one in offering these remarks—l upbraid no one—
but I ask them to look on me as a humble and diffi-
dent, though ardent and firm—they may call me obsti-
nate, if they please—legislator, who, though I speak out,
strike home—strike hard ; whose blow wounded—and
whose scourge was lifted and placed on the right back.—
( Much cheering.) Permit me to make one or two obser-
vations more personal; it was said that the gentlemen
called Conservatives were desirous ofhaving the respectabi-
lity and talent of Bath properly represented, so I suppose
they elected Lord Powerscourt to represent the respecta-
hility, and Bruges the talent of Bath.—(Cheering.)
Am I wrong ?—( Loud cries of " No.") I am told
that Lord Powerscourt about thirteen months ago, (and
I am glad that he is now in England to hear what I
shall have to say concerning him) at some drunken ex-
hibition dared to use my name in a way that no gentle-
man would have done ; I took no notice of it at the
time, but 1 did ressrve to myself the right of applying
a scourge to that person's back which should make him
feel smartly if he has any sense of honour or shame.
There was introduced into this town at the last election,
by means of persons calling themselves religious, a system
of brutal and demoralizing drunkenness, under the cloak
of sanctity and zeal for religion ; and with us whom it
was the custom to call infidels, and democrats, and des-
tructives, and everything else (whom, I suppose, it was
said w.ere too poor to get drunk), there was in this town a
sober, moral, and consistent demeanour, but at the last
election it was, that under the influence of the sancti-
monious Lerd Powerscourt the above system of
debauchery was introduced. Yee; those who preac)sed
sanctity, and professed a zeal for religion, brought with
them vice and demoraliz,aion, and bribed with a porter-
pot and a shilling.—(Much cheering.) Wretched
must have been the conscience of that man to act in so
degraded a manner. Say not to me that it was his
ministers that did it ; lie was the responsible person.
I go to the master, to the head ; it was he who fur-
nished the money, and he alone is answerable for it,
that those proceedings were introduced with the view
of corrupting the electors of Bath. The author, von
well know, was the Member who bought them, and
who now treats with deserved contempt those who
sold themselves to him.—(Tremendous cheering.)
Of the parties to this filthy bargain I have no
more to say ; but I have now to speak of something
more important—our prospects for the future. You
must all be aware that the situation of this country
at the present time is most remarkable, in consequence
of the counter movements that arc being made. At
the present moment the landed aristocracy possess all
the power in the State, for though they do not return all
the members to the House of Commons they still return
a large majority. Of the remaining, a large portion
are returned by the mercantile or middle classes,
leaving but a small portion said to be returned by the
labouring portion of the community. Now the inte-
rests of the first class are opposed to those of the
other two. It is their interest to live on other per-
sons' labour ; indeed the operations of all aristocratic
governments have this tendency, and this is the pre-
sent state of things ; for though it was said that pa-
tronage should no longer be distributed but accord-
, ing to merit, no man who looks at the appoint-
ments that are made can say that such is the case.—
(Hear.) But it so happens that the middle classes
have no interest in this matter—they live either by
their own industry or the use of the capital which they
possess ; the interests of this class are the same as those
of the labouring classes, the only mistake is that they
have ranged themselves in hostility the one to the
other, consequently one tries to take what is not
sanctioned by the other ; the endeavours of each are
fruitless, and every step fails. Take the Corn-laws for
example, they weigh alike on the mercantile or middle
classes, and on the labouring class, but they are sup-
posed in some wiry, and I believe they do in a
measure, benefit the agriculturists. Well, the middle
classes have moved the whole country against these
laws, and they have delegates sent from various
Anti-Corn-law Associations all over the country
to form another Path iment, and there is actually
now an illegal Parliament sitting (illegal by an Act of
Geo. III.) under the very nose of the Home Secretary—
they were sitting and acting in a way that the working
men would not dare to act ; but unfortunately their
endeavours and petitions will be fruitless, they will be
thrust und, r the table and be forgotten. I will take
upon myself for once to be a prophet, and I predict that
the demands of the Corn-law agitators will be resisted
—that their petitions will be treated as of no worth,
and will be of no avail. Does not this show how insuf-
ficient those means are to obtain the ends sought
after ? Their interests are the interests of the work-
ing classes, but we find them ranged in hostility to one
another ; and if one demands one thing, the other de-
mands another. There ought to be no such feeling ;
they ought to be a united people ; and if they understood
their interests they would find that in all things they
corresponded. But there have crept in petty jealousies 1
and animosities, which have blinded each to their real
interests, when if they reflected they would find them
identical, for each must be interested in obtaining cheap,
efficient, and just government ; cheap, swift, and just
law ; that no man should receive pay but for services
performed ; that there should be none favoured in the
eye of the law, but that justice should be administered
to all and et once.—(Great cheering.) Wherein, then,
can their interests differ ? Now I come to touch
a sore place.—(Laughter.) Some time ago the people
found that there was such a state of things that they
could not do what they desired ; consequently the peo-
ple arose as one man, and demanded reform ; the
aristocracy said they must be put down, but the enthu-
siasm that had been excited could not be put down. The
crisis was now arrived, and the real animus and feeling
of the House of Commons, became nacre apparent, when
the Reform Bill came out. All this shows, that unless '
the whole people go together as one man, they can never
put down the aristocracy, for that is a bold, wily ma-
noeuvring, and let me tell you not a very honest body.
—(lean) What arc we to do then to benefit our
condition ? (Some one in the room here cried out
" Have the Charter," which was echoed by some half
dozen others). Mr. R.—Surely no person will endea-
vour to interrupt me until I hare fairly committed my-
self ; and the same respect will be shown to me now as
I have before received ; surely no individual will
raise his voice obstreperously, or uncourteously.—
(Immense cheering). I am not speaking as by au-
thority, but amongst friends.—( Renewed cheering.)
The question is then, how can we get at
the means of improving our condition ? I answer,
by altering in the first instance, the form of the House
of Commons ; but what sort, or to what extent that
alteration should go, there was the difficulty. The
question of government was one of expediency ; we
must try it, and test it by experience, for we cannot
come at it by any process of pure reasoning. It is not as
plain as two and two makes four, but it is like the con-
struction of some intricate machine for the manufacture
of any article, made and fashioned by time and experi-
ence, and after a large number of failures. Wh
shallen
e
endeavour to find out a machine of government,
any one say that this one is right and perfect, and
that all the others are wrong ; end call every one a
fool who does not agree with him ? I may have my
idea of a good machine, but I am not. to denounce every
one as a fool and a knave, whose ideas do not accord
with mine. There aro a set of men who fancy
that the the Extension of the Suffrage must go to
the verge, and among these I shall rank myself ;
but shall I say that no one shall think differently !
Shall I turn round and say that the man is a fool that
will not join with me? Or shall I not discuss the
question with him ? We may find that both of us are
wrong; and I think that I can show that the Chartists
and their opponents are both wrong. And first, I will
show the error of the opponents of the Charter. They
say that they allow that the constitution of the Par-
liament is bad ; but they also say that the Chartists
wish to place in the hands of a few whom they call the
people all the power of Parliament ; but I say that is
not their object. I believe that tooet good gover.n-
meat we must go to those who are interested in main-
taining it, to every man who lives on the produce of his
own labour, and does not fatten on they labour of others.
—( Hear.) The others say, " h want Universial
Suffrage, that is the panacea which shall remove all, t
evils of Englishmen, which shall render Engler no
longer England, but some happier place."—(Hear,.lear.)
That is a fatal mistake. Many of the miseries of
mankind are beyond the control of Government ;
an
if we believe that allst G the
overnment, we ills " that fleshare doomed even
is heir to are to ,
be relieved by a ju
if successful to bitter disappointment. The mistake,
on both sides, may then be thus stated :—They who
oppose the Charter are unnecessarily frightened by it.,
because they misconceive and misconstrue it ; they who
support it, hope from it advantages which are wholly
chimerical. Still, in my opinion, no good Government
(and that is the case we are inquiring -after), will ever
be attained except through the means of the extended
suffrage contemplated by the Chartists. But then
this extended suffrage will not be the harbinger of perfect
wisdom on the part of the people. Unhappily the people
are not all wise—each fraction of that whole, called the
people—each individual, is fallible—subject to error
—liable to be misled—influenced often by passion and
by prejudice ; hut if the individuals are thus fallible,
why should I believe that the community composed
of these should be perfectly wise ? They will err, as
mankind has always erred ; but, nevertheless, subject
as they will ever be to this chance and possibility of
error, the community, having an interest in going right,

will be right oftener than would any section or fractia.n
when entrusted with power. Although their error,
may be many, yet an increasing knowledge points out
the truth ; each succeeding year will bring its advance
and improvement—because there will ever be the same
interest in the attainment of the truth. We may take
examples from history of the mode in which tlate people
have gone wrong, and in timehave thrown off their error.
The whole people believed in witchcraft, and witches
were burned in obedience to the popular will ; had uni-
versal suffrage existed, the same dreadful result would
then have followed; Catholiesburned hereticsin cbedienoe
to the popular opinion—when the opinion changed, Ana-
Baptists were burned by the Protestants, still in obe-
dience to the general opinion. Taus we see the people
may err—and this leads me to believe that infallible I
wisdom and perfect justice will not result from the most
complete and extended system of suffrage ; but still I
believe that this most extended suffrage will bring us
nearer to this perfect wisdom and just&e, than can be
effected by any narrow or confined system of represen-
tative government. The labouring population are move
desp!y and directly interested in good government than
any other section of the community. If anything de-
ranges the working of the State machine, the capitalist
may live on the capital be has accumulated ; but he who
upon the produce of his daily labour, if lee ruir
accident or convulsion his labour is not in dernandotars'ese
Are you, then, it may be asked, in favour of Univerta:
Suffrage ? My answer to this is, what is intended by
this term ? I believe that the wider the suffrage, the
safer the State, and the greater the chances of good:
government. But the Charter is not Unitersal St
frag2—:t makes exceptions, necessary exceptions—and
in this restricted and guarded sense I am in favour of
this so much dreaded suffrage. The Charter excludes
women, all persons under twenty-one years of age, all
persons tainted with crime, and all persons not duly re-
gistered. I sal prepared to vote for this should it be
proposed in accordance with the principles I have laid
dawn, not incause I believe in any fancied naturat
rights, but because to me it appears that the wo:ltinis
of self-interest will lead the labouring classes (ineluollogi
in that term, the middle, and those more specifiesNsilY
called the operative classes), in the long run, right'in
their attempts to construct a perfect machine of
government, and to produce the effects which a good
government is intended to produce.—(Hear, hear.)
This is a plain business-like mode of viewing the
question before us. It ,is encumbered by no vain or
doubtful theories—it travels into no diverse mazes of

inetephysical speculations—it is level to any capacity,
and challenges acquiescence because of its simplicity
and truth. On this subject, then, I think there can be
no mistake as to my opinions ; but if any one should
press me further, and ask. Will you take anything short
of this ? my answer is, Certainly—asking for the rest,
however, and seeking to obtain it. If I cannot make
the journey at one leap, or by one stage, I must do it
by successive steps ; if I cannot go at railroad pace, I
most advance as well es I can. Onward, onward, is
my motto ; every step in advance I rejoice in, and will
make. Every step is an experiment which I believe will
ultimately conduce to prove wry original opinion correct,
and bring to my side many who now consider me in
error.—(Great cheering.) Let me remark that if we
continue to bicker and neglect our common interests, that
great and dominant body, who have still their foot on our
necks, will tramp'e us into the earth, and we shall still
be their serfs and their slaves.—(Cheers.) The
great interests of the community are now sacrificed to
them ; even Parliament cannot be called together, but
et a time when it will not interfere with their arrange-
ments. We cannot have cheap bread, nor cheap law,
nor pe ice, because the aristoc?v.cy put their foot on our
necks, and say it is not to their Interest that we should
have such.—(Cheers.) But let us not in wild fancy, nor
in the outbreak of anger talk of the dagger and torch
for those men who talk thus are not the foremost in dim-
ger, nor in the fight ; be assured that they are always the
first to fly when danger approaches. Do not believe .
that they are the friends of the people, who shall in any •
way countenance, or recommend the use of the &eller
or the torch. My God shall it be said that in En
land the dagger and the torch were resorted to to
grin any political advantage ? The dagger of assassi-
nation in the hands of Englishmen ! Heaven foAid.
The torch that I would raise would be the torch of
reason, to light to freedom through the paths or
s • the torch that should enlighten and tot de,
peace—
stroy. To burn ! To use the dagger et .night, is
that our fashion to do things? No. Who was it re-
commended to English Radicals the use of the dagger
and the torch ? One who sees them going thrones
his country and destroying and consuming without
mercy or reason ; who sees the assassin go forth in
broad day-light as well as by night ; who sees hie
countrymen degraded by ignorance and superstition,
and puts not forth his hand to remove it, that he may
batten and fatten on the spoils of their ignorance, and
who would starve if they were enVirtened.-e (Tre-
mendous cheering.) I believe we may go on openly
and freely, and in open day, to seek what we wish to
obtain. if we are driven to the exercise of force, let
it. not be by an inconsiderable act, but, as in the days o
Charles 1., let us be driven to it by oppression ; but
then, in Heaven's name, let it be en open force, and Not
used at midnight.—(Cheers.) We have no right to
contemplate the necessity of force ; for met as we now
are, are we not more formidable than if we had each a •
rifle in our hands ; then a regiment of
H soldiers
ill heou
aldr
soon disperse us, but now the House of Commons will
to us ; and be assured that they who
every thing and go through every thing, well be the
et
ils e
their beennestbue couragesosen. d.
last to talk about physical force.—(Much cheerin-r)
s
o
I know that all sorts of language
ttr,.bioritpittithireeeepliriyi•iecneertfatiinlosme men, but übtelthihaa•
and their prudence ; they do not desire anything
profitable revolution ; and the first people to be utia
feed will not be them, but their deluded followesraseir
(Cheers.) I have never once said but that there might
be a point at which resistance would be jestifi,thie
; the
English law says that, and if it did not I would; but
there is no chance of our being driven to that.—(Muth
cheering.) Bad Governreent we may have, but if we
look at the measure proposed, that man would be cruel
who would attempt by civil war to obtain those ends.
But let no one go away and say that I am an advocate
of passive obedience ; yet if any person cr persons
should appeal successfully to the people to take up
arms, they would be the worst enemies the people ever
had ; they may sacrifice thousands of lives, and instead
of gaining, lose the greater part of what we have.—
(Immense cheering.) After what I have said, allow .
me to close these observations by making a prOpo.
sition to you ; I address myself to your intelligence
and right feelings. I believe that a great deal of
misconception has gone abroad on the subject of go
vernments ; but this may be done away with if you
eet any one to discuss them with you. I will he
'that one.—(Tremendous bursts of applause.)
series
of at this moment at leisure, and am willing in a e
of a few lectures to discuss the subject with you, if
you desire to investigate ; but do not consider that
I ant actuated by any other motive than to promote
the cause of truth. I am among old friends, and if I
come here and offer my services to give halN.-dozen
lectures, you are not to suppose I have any other mo-
tives than those I have expressed. I hope to unite
men who ought to be friends, to remove misconcep-
tions, to form men into a band of brothers, and to put
down real animosities.—(Cheers.) I do not believe I
could pay a higher compliment to your intelligence and
understandings than by doing so. We shall be quit©
calm and dispassionate, and not carry any thing by
clamour or confusion. After alluding to there topies,
allow me again to express my gratitude liar your kind-
ness towards me. I receive it as a pledge of your apt
proval, and it confirms my opinion, that I held the
real good feeling of the mass of the people. I believe
that the great mass of my countrymen are right its
the main. I could not but believe that their goad
feeling and opinions were the same, and that they were
not that fickle body they were represented to be, but that
they were tnis-stated by some, and misunderstood by
others ; and that some mark would be shown to me that
the people were sound at the core.—(Cheers.) And
now what I said at the commencement I will carry to
the end—l have hitherto considered your interests E v
r
tleman then sat down amiest the most
though I have neglected mylowni.—[ Hie
hearty and Learned Gone
moved
isa y orfo thatr thepe
presiding,
s aonfd
thusiastic cheering.] •
would soon
the the
fey
mg:elf:Loofa irat ov
having
thea Liberal
mt7reel\eluji,eg
given
ttohenthe
allowed for the use of
jo.Lf't‘hLerEHlcall.
tun! owfhaelnlutdbiantg
athreriswo,rking
classes, and they should not have a Town
in
r ot to
mt. b
oauritivda advantage
Mayorl\lr. forC iutshre tyse,cannda he hoped period,
Council whowould object to it.—(Cheers.) He wadsatisfied that as the principles of the Municipal gill
• ked out, the room would open toall
were world be sec-
tions of the people. Ile then bore his testimony to the
uniform benevolence and liberality of the Mayor, and
concluded by cordially seconding the motion, which was
carried by acclamation.
The MAYOR then acknowledged the vote, speaking
in the highest terms of the excellence of the disaouraa
they had just heard, and pledged himself that that
room should be at the service of Mr. Roebuck for the
purpose of delivering his lectures. This announeometit
was received with tremendous cheering.
Cheers were then given for the Mayor, and Mr. Rue,
buck, and the meeting separated.

up
In the evening, the Committee and a few friends,
in number, met Mr. Roebuck at dinner
iu at
abitle"\\ 0
''lllite Hart. The entertainment was served
Mr. Cooper's usual excellent style, and the evening
Passed off in the most gratifying manner,

Mr. Stanfield is travelling in the south of Europe,
where he is, no doubt, collecting a fund of sketches and knowledgis
to .enrich &mire productions. Travelling to the artist is, to use a
homely phrase, what the grinding-stone is to the carpeuter ;le
sharpens his tools. On New year's day he WAS at Naplq4 whim) a
singular instance of good fortune awaited him. The etitranoe cle
the year 1839 was announced by Mount Vesuvius. An crruption
took plac2 on the night which terminated the existence of the old
year. Little or no mischief was done ; and the artist lad a giorioie44
opportunity for storing his mind and employing his
pcmil; in
on his return.
which we shall, no doubt, find our advantage, too,