The Sun.
London, England, 1863-03-25 00:00:00

ITIPERIAL PARLIAMENT

HOUSE OF LORDS—Last Evening.

Lord REDESDALE, in the absence of the Lord Chancellor,
took his seat at the usual hour.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.

The Isle of Wight (Extension) and Anglesey Central
Railway bills were read a third time and passed.
MUTINY BILL.
This bill was read a first time.
THE POLISH STUDENTS.

The Earl of SHAFTESBURY, seeing his noble
friend the Secretary for Foreign Affairs in his place, begged
to draw his attention to the question he had put some days
ago relative to the arrest of polish students, who, on
leaving Paris, were seized by the Prussian authorities,
and then handed over to the Russian Government. Since
that he had received information that the fact of the arrest
and surrender of the students was correct, and also that
they had been tried and shot by the Russian official. What
he wished to know was, whether the noble earl had received
any information on the subject.
Earl RUSSELL said he received information as to two
students only, and in a despatch he had received, dated the
7th of the present month, he found they had been claimed
by the French ambassador on the ground of French nationa-
lity.

The Earl of SHAFTESBURY asked whether he had
received any information as to the fact of other students
having been shot.
Earl RUSSELL had received no intelligence to that
effect.
BIRTHS AND DEATHS REGISTRATION
(IRELAND) BILL.
On the motion for going into committee on this bill,
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE presented a petition
from the Fellows of the King and Queen's College of Phy-
sicians in Ireland against certain clauses in the bill. They
also complained of the power of appointing the Registrar-
General being left entirely in the hands of the Lord Lieu-
tenant, and also that the medical officers appointed under
the act should be subject to an examination by the Regis-
trar-General, who might not be either a professional or
scientific man.
Earl ST. GERMANS said he should best consult the
feelings of tha house if ha reserved any observations he
might have to make upon the petition presented by the noble
lord until the particular clauses to which it referred were
under the consideration of their lordships.
The Earl of BANDON thought if it was wished to make
the bill effectual its promoters must separate it from all con-
nection with the administration of the poor laws.
Lord CLEMENTS was of opinion that the bill would
prove altogether inopportune.
The house then went into committee on the bill.
Clauses up to 21 were agreed to.
On clause 22,
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE moved that the title
" Superintendent Register," instead of " Superintendent
Registrar," should be given to the clerks of unions.
The committee divided on the clause as it stood.
Contents
Non-contents
Majority against the amendment
The remaining clauses were agreed to.
The house resumed, and the bill was reported.
ILLEGITIMATE CHILDREN (IRELAND) BILL.
The amendments on this bill were reported.
SALMON EXPORTATION BILL.
This bill was read a third time and passed.
CONSOLIDATED FUND (R 10,000,000) BILL.
This bill was read a third time and passed.
POST OFFICE SAVINGS BANKS BILL.
Lord STANLEY of ALDERDEY moved the second
reading of the Post Office Savings Banks Bill.
Lord REDESDALE said ;that he would move some
amendments at another stage of the bill.
It was then read a second time.
COUNCILLORS OF INDIA.
Lord LYVEDEN asked her Majesty's Government
whether they intended to reconsider so much of the Act 21
and 22 Vic., cap. 106, as related to the nomination, elec-
tion, duration, of service, salary, and retired allowance of
the councillors of India ? The soundest opinion in India
seemed to be in favour of a revision of the constitution of
the council. He wished to know whether his noble friend
intended to submit the constitution of the Council of India
to a committee, or to bring in a bill for its reconstruction.
The Duke of ARGYLL could not help thinking that
his noble friend had introduced the question rather for
the purpose of enabling him to state his own opinion,which
ho had a plain right and was very competent to do, than to
obtain from her Majesty's Government information upon a
subject which he knew very well he should hear nothing
new upon. For, if it were the intention of the Government
to make any such change in the law of 1818 as his noble
friend suggested, they would have stated it openly before
that time. To reply in form, however, to his noble friend's
question, he should say her Majesty's Government had no
intention to make any change in the constitution of India,or
to take any steps towards the reconstruction of the Indian
council, which was settled by Parliament, after full and
careful deliberation, in 1858. The question of the construc-
tion, of the:council had been raised, at that time, by a very
distinguished member of the other house of Parliament,
and it was not pressed to a division, because the opinion
of the house was decided that the business of India was so
peculiar that the Secretary of State ought to have the as-
sistance of a number o: gentlemen who were well acquainted
with and who had long experience in the affairs of that coun-
try. They could only thus obtain the aid of men (Anal posi-
tion and weight as Sir John Roberts, Sir Frederick Curry,
Mr. Willoughby, and others. He did not think that the
♦alue of the Council of India depended upon its numbers
but rather upon the weight and importance of the men of
whom it was composed. He thought it a bad thing to
discuss organic changes often. He believed the Council of
India worked remarkably well, and there was no intention
to, make any change in the system.
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH thought that the feel-
ing of independence in the Council would be much
strengthened by the declaration of the noble duke, that the
system was not liable to be changed. He (the Earl of El-
lenborough) was always in favour of a council. He would
fill every vacancy with the best man that could be found for
it. He would rather have a strong council than a weak one,
for a council of able men could be managed, whilst nothing
could be done with nonentities. (Hear, hear, and laughter.)
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE did not look upon the
council with such unalloyed satisfaction as that with which
the noble earl (Ellenborough) regarded it. He thought
there was room for improvement, and that it certainly
should not be so numerous. He did not know how this
ttucil was working. It was very well for the Secretary
or State to come down and tell the house that he was forti-
fied by the opinion of Sir J. Lawrence or others, but how
were they to know that he really was so supported? It
would be well if Parliament were informed whether the
council was unanimous in its decision ; and if not unani
areas, then how did those men with the great names vote ?

Earl GREY thought that the very fact that they heard
nothing about disputes or differences afforded the best proof
that the council was working smoothly. (Hear.)
_ _

,
AUSTRALIAN COLONIES.
Earl GREY presented two petitions from the districts
of Clarence and Richmond Rivers, praying for a change
in their relationship towards the colonies by which they are
surrounded. The petitions set forth that in 1859 the colony
of New South Wales was divided, and the district which
forms the new colony of Queensland was separated from it,
and erected into a separate colony. The petitioners com-
plained that they were kept within the boundaries of New
South Wales, although they are separated from it by a range
of lofty and difficult mountains, which cut off all communi-
cation inland; and that they are 600 miles from Sydney, the
capital of New South Wales, whilst they are only 100 miles
from Brisbane, the capital of the colony with which they
are naturally connected. They have no material influence
in the Legislature of New South Wales, and they are
taxed for the public debt of that colony, which was raised
for purposes from which they derived no benefit. They
prayed to be joined with the colony of Queensland, with
which they are connected geographically and by inclina-
tion. He (Earl Grey) considered that the complaint of
the colonists was a very just and well-founded one.
The other three petitions which he had to present were from
the western portion of the colony of Victoria. 1 hey prayed
that their districts, together with the south-eastern portion
of the colony of South Australia, should be separated from
the colonies to which they were at present attached, and
formed into a distinct colony. They said they would then
form a more considerable colony than Port Phillip. He con-
sidered those petitions were well worthy of their lordships'
consideration.
The Duke of NEWCASTLE said that, with regard to
tl first set of petitions, the law which separated the colony
of i
Queensland from New South Wales was passed in 1859,
when he was not in office. He could not explain what the
reasons were for the change from the strict geographical
line in laying out the new colony' All he knew was, that
alter he had come into office he received applications,' not
from the colonists thernselves,but from their representatives
in this country, to detach them from New South Wales,and
attach them to Queensland. The letters patent, however,
were then completed; but he said that if the colonists would
agree to any new boundary line, and apply to him, he would
have new letters patent issued. Since that time he had
never received any communication from the colony on the
subject, and he had hoped that the colonists had acquiesced
in the arrangements. With regard to the other three peti
tions, he was not aware that they were the same which he
had received before ; but he assured his noble friend thathe
was accustomed to receive so many of a like nature, that if
their prayers were granted the town of Sydney, without any
land about it, would soon be all that would be left of what
had been the colony of New South Wales. He thought it
would be bad policy to erect too many colonies. In Aus-
tralia, at least, they should be cautious, until the continent
should be more thickly peopled. There were some applica-
tions which he had no doubt would require to be attended to.
One was an application to have a district south of the Gulf of
Carpentaria, and near Port Essington, which contained the
enormous superficial extent of 730,000 square miles, divided
for the purpose of erecting a new colony. Another was for
a new district near the Victoria river and the Alma river,
tut it would be very undesirable to sever those colonies that I