The Sun.
London, England, 1808-04-30 00:00:00

• • .
formed th ' elf•fnn.6:tion; \. •1 , Ithlity 0:13 4 ere4tt.
there'sAt4 atiy I.roxt waitt.
dt the psoper, tho'ue,,lit that 'every
means ought to be employed to '4iC't .the Catholic
Oh-Ivan education with and
and deprecated lie' Watt:l6on 'am)/ gratuitous U.
retracting thy ram of the former grant for
that purpose. .
• Mr. GRAMN,contetukd, that a provision for the
education 41)14,-50 students -wotilki be insufficient. to
supply the vlicancies.tkit;:stiotild-Loactit it the Ca
tholic Clergy by deaths .or. caSuallies; • To makeup,
for this deficiency; tlieCoontrywoold be left to two
rhances, private, or foreign charity One. Right Hon.
Gentleman had said, that •11.1:- were educated for
the Priesthood 'in private.seminaries. But the edu-
cation iti these being only preparatery for the
College, that was 6.6 education. for'•the4"rielt hood.
By reducing the, grant, the - Housewbutd7secnte
the ignorance and inveterate-preludict.ts of.ti.grent
portion of 'the Catholics. Proselytism' -was not
• to be
.expected under such circuthstanres. • Re-
ligious conformity was iMpratticable, ,and poll-
conformity, ,which was in' their, power, they
would destroy by the course pr4Osed. In endetvJ
• vouring to entotce religious Conformity, they would
make the mass of that. people-inveterate Catholics
and political enemies. Give:them atnedncated and
ignorant Priests, and you weaken' the Protestant Re•
ligion and the Protestant Government. If provision
he 'not made at home for'the education of theireler-
gy, they. Must seek it abroad. ..At.present thar chn-
tiot ; boc 'we most, look--to some tivnetof
pewe. 'i,'pen they will go and bring back with
them foreign conneCtions ' and • foreign obligations'.
• -Why do ,you fear. the 'Catholic
Is it not from the foreign connection which it
involves? • And Whilit 'the spirit 'of Buonaparte
shall pervade :the ~hole of the Continent; is that a.
time tor keeping-up the connealion.? Tile Students
that may ~[to abromi for -edtijation mider sueh cir=
cumstances: will aequire the suit e deistical princi-
ples and political antipathies. that will be spread
every where around them. They will therettire re-
turn.f.retigious Deists 'and politied C.itholics, to the
great danger of ioterthrowitig the*Governmrnt.* It
was'true that neither the Nlinisters of the Metho-
dists'nor of the-Quakers were educated at thepublic
expence; but Liey were few:-rn comparison, and
the Catholics termed the great body of the people
a 'lreland. It the Priests had any influence
over the Catholics, they 4lioukl he educated with
sentiments of domestic attachment, not with those
of °Ur political enemies. - He. doubted ,whether
the Priests had as much 'absolute influence over
the people of Ireland- as 'was- suppo9ed, and the
cause wail; that they 'were not well educated. if
they ivished the Catholics-of Ireland to be well con-
cluded, t•hey4-hopld make theli Prii sts *as, not
of contempt, but of veneration. • The Protestant reli-
gion-was not to belettended by demoralising the Ca-
tholic Clergy. They may civilise the people of Ire:-
land, but could not make them Protestants. • The
saving proposed was so compatiblei that the Irish
Catholics would impute it to an indisposition to their.
religion. The Catholics would gain, by the larger
grant, the Protestants would not lose; andthe public
could sustain no injury by it. On the whole, there.
lore, be should give his support to the amendment
of his Right llon. Prietid.

Mr. Caoxen. was called up by the obseritatiol of
the flight Hott..Gentleman who bad just sat down,
and to protest against itsbeingsupposed here, or in
'lreland, that illose who :ihould'yote fur the --s'nyaller
sum were indi;pngedici.the'Cathol;c body. -For his
own part, he had a pertect-convietion of the req)ec.
lability in rank, wealth; and numbers of the Catlin.
lie ho%iy; and yet, With- that conyitiion, he should
Yote,tor. the reduced grant; and .be hoped to satisfy
the Committee-that he did so on .faitygrouuds. The
questiotr . really was, whether '1250 Ecclesiastical
studen k were enough to supply. the. vactinciesin the
Catholic. Priesthood; and then The first inquiry must
bcs. the:numbers of that Priesthood. The. Right Ho,
pourable Gentleman opposite (Mr. Ponsonby) had
taunted. his Right Ifrin. Friend -(Mr, PerceVal) with
Winging forward this measure Nithoufalso inform.
ing-the.House of:the state of the Catholic Church of
Ireland,Which, bolding high.effices as he did, he was
Mound to do. But was ..it recolleiled• that but one
littleryear. had elapsed since that night Honourable
Gentleman had belt!-the highest. office in Ireland,
and - that it. was during his administration.that this
grant was originally enlarged. Did the Right Hon.
Gentleman make this increase without himself hay,
ing inquired the state ..af the CatholiC Church ; or
why, if. he had inquired, did
.he not either. then or
now, impart his information to the House ;' teat
why- should he,. ofrall " persons, conceive he
had a right, to barge his Right Hon. Friend with
having,, only in a tnore.,venial degree, followed his
example f, -_But the Right Hon. Gentleman, who
spoke last!had tried to aepply.thechaim, and he had
stated,. on Mr. Creker did not know what authority,
that. there' were 2400 Roman Catholic parishes in
Ireland. This, he believed, was a great over-state.
went he _thought, however, that if there were
'2ooo, which was a large computation, that 250
edUcated at the 'public expence, and too at private
expencei were fully adequate to supply all probable,'
or even possible, vae.ancies., Indeed he was convinced
that to increase the number would open a door for
fraud, and that persons, under, the, pretence of in-
tending to become Priests, would receive edu-
cation at the public expenee„ and Would afterwards
gti cff to other professions, to the loss both of the
put)l,:c and the Catholic Priesthood... Hee, observedt
frenn the Papers on the table,. that Of those persons
who had been hitherto educated at Maynooth, up-
wards
of one-fifth, after having lived there free of ex-
pence for or a years each, on an average, left the
College and the Catholic Ministry for other pursuits;
fie therefore was warranted in. 'fearing from an in-
crease of numbers an increase.olsuch prsaiees, and
he-Was of opinion, if care was used in the selealion of
the Sttidersts the number would be fully ad.:Tl;l(e.
Hut. there was a subjea that pressed very heavily on
hls mind 'with tegardto this Institution, and it was
the very circumstance,
:which Gentlemen on the
other side scented to approve of most, he meant the
gramitinis education 'given at Marmot' h whole
exiles= being borne by the public, and not at all
by the S odentfi, their t'innilies„ or, frien4 ; this gra-
tuity of coafo facilinited the ~enfrance of persons of
ad inferior class into the College and
,Prie.,thooti,