The Sun.
London, England, 1837-07-04 00:00:00

CIVIL LIST.

200,0001. to defray the expense of her Majesty's Civil
List u as then agreed to.
Mr. HUME wished to understand the nature of the
grant. He understood that as the fixing of the Civil
List had been postponed to the next Session of Parliament,
this sum had been granted to defray the current expenses,
and that it was only equal in amount to what would have
been voted if the demise had not taken place.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER as-
sented, and the vote was then agreed to.
MARLBOROUGH HOUSE.

21,000/. to defray expenses of fitting up Marlborough-
house.

Mr. HU ME wished to know why that charge was
brought forward. He held in his hand the Act of Parlia-
ment for granting Marlborough House and Bushey Park
to the Queen Dowager, but there was no stipulation that
it should be kept in repair by the country.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that upon a surrey made upon the death of the late King, it
was found that 60,0001. would be required for adapting
Marlborough House for the reception of the Queen Dowager.
40,C00/. the Queen would have to spend out of
her own money—the other 21,000/. was for what
was strictly called landlords' repairs ; repairs of the root; the
walls, &c., &c., for which sum the public were
strictly bound—the pension of the King of Belgium, which
would otherwise have gone to the repairs of Marlborough
House, having been carried to the public account.

BRIGHTON PAVILION.

Captain PECHELL begged to ask the Right Hon.
Gentleman a question, the answer to which he hoped
would tend to allay the great anxiety and excitement which
prevailed in the minds of his constituents relative to
some reports which had got abroad respecting the pavi-
lion at Brighton. It had been stated, both publicly and
privately, that that royal building was private property,
and was to be pulled down. Such a proceeding must be
very injurious to his constituents, and he trusted that the
Right Hon. Gentleman would be able to give such an
answer as would allay all apprehensions upon the subject.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
report had reached his ears for the first time,, and he was
very happy to say that the report was totally unfounded.
By the arrangements which were made on the demise of
George IV., the Pavilion at Brighton became public pro-
perty.
Mr. HUME was not at all satisfied with the answer of
the Right Honourable Gentleman, the Chancellor of the
Exchequer, with respect to the repairs necessary for Marl-
borough House. Was the survey made when the King
of Belgium gave it up, and if so would there be any objec-
tion to lay it on the table of the House?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER would
be most happy to give all the documents in question. He
would admit to the Hon. Member for Middlesex
that the Government were not bound to do more
to the repairs of Marlborough House than an ordinary
landlord would do for an ordinary tenant ; the present vote
was only for the purpose of discharging the obligations of a
contract which they were bound to perform.
Mr. HUME wished to know, if the House voted
the sum, whether the annual allowances that had
hitherto been made were to be continued? If those allow-
ances were to go on, it would be impossible, in his opinion,
to make those reductions in taxation which the people so
loudly called for, and the House would disgrace itself as
the guard of the public money. He admitted to the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer, that if an agreement had been
made by the Government they were bound to perform
it, however improvident it might be. If the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer could show that the amount
asked for was required, he for one would not under the cir-
cumstances object to it. He thought, however, considering
the vast expense the different Royal Palaces entailed upon
the country, that as there was at the present moment an
opportunity of doing so, some limit should be made to the
grants that had hitherto taken place for the keeping up the
different Royal Palaces.
The vote was then agreed to.
THE NEW HOUSES OF PARLIAMENT.

Upon the vote that 88,0001. should be granted to her
Majesty to defray the expenses of erecting the new Houses
of Parliament,

Mr. HUME wished ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer
whether he had kept his faith with the public with respect
to this vote ? In his opinion, the matter was not properly
before the House. Such being the case, he certainly
objected to proceeding with a subject at the end
of the Session of such great importance.—(Hear, hear.)
He had a document in his possession, in which it was
stated that this great work could not be effected under an
expense of less than 1,100,000/. or 1,200,0004 He
thought the best way would be to bring the Estimates
before the new Parliament. He wished to see the new
House of Parliament a credit to the nation, for there was at
present no public building that was a credit to the nation. The
Hon. Member entreated the House nut to consent to the
commencement of the new building at present, and stated
he shouldlcel it to be his duty to take the sense of the House
upon the propriety of postponing this estimate till next
Session.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it
was a matter of greater concern to the House than it was to
the Government, and if the House wished to continue for ano-
ther Session in the state in which it was at present, the Go-
vernment would offer no objection. The plan upon which the
estimate was founded had received the joint consent of Com-
mittees of both Houses of Parliament, and be thought it
was not likely that the House would throw on one side all
that had hitherto been done, and leave entirely at sea
the question of what was to be done hereafter.
If the House was disposed to remain as they were, it would
reduce his estimates by so much ; but it would not be, in
his opinion, very advisable or creditable, after all the steps
that had been taken—after the Committees of the two
Houses that had sat—after the able men who had been
examined and the surveys that had been made, if the House
would now consent to postpone the vote for another year.
Mr. HUME explained. He had no intimation that
such an estimate would be brought forward, or he should
most certainly have intimated his intention of opposing it.
Sir GEORGE STRICKL AND would most strongly
oppose the grant, as the general opinion throughout the
country was that the plan ought not to be adopted. He
had the strongest possible misgiving that the estimates would
be found insufficient. The architecture was also defective
—it was to be Elizabethean or Tudor architecture, but
the architects could not exactly tell what that style was,
which was compounded of Grecian and castle Gothic.
Were they now to be called upon to vote a sum of a mil-
lion and a half to erect a great work in a defective mixed
style of architecture ? He trusted the House would pause
before it assented to such a proposition. Feeling that the
House they now sat in, with the improvements that had
been made in it, was for the present amply sufficient for car-
rying► on the business of the country, he should oppose the
motion.

Sir R. INGLIS said the question before the House
was not now as to the practicability or merits of Mr. Barry's
plan, for to that the House had already given its assent.
He could hardly conceive a greater waste of time than re-
ferring the subject to another Committee.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. IVARBURTON thought if the House was not to
decide upon this important subject as long as there were
Members of it who objected to Mr. Barry's plan, they
would never come to any decision at all.—(Hear.)
Mr. G. KNIGHT was most anxious the subject should
be reconsidered, and the vote postponed to another session.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was
satisfied of the merits of Mr. Barry's plan, and could see
no reason for the propriety of reconsidering it. He thought
there never wls a public work proposed in which the House
had greater certainty of the estimates not being exceeded.
Mr. H A WES was certain the expense of the building
would exceed the estimates, and from the calculations he
had made, he believed it would not cost less than
1,000,000!. Hon. Members were now about to go before
their constituents, and therefore a fair opportunity would be
afforded of ascertaining whether it was the wish of the
public that a million of money should be expended in the
building of new Houses of Parliament, especially under
existing circumstances. He could not give his consent
to the laying out of such an enormous sum of money, and
he should, therefore, support the motion of the Hon. Mem-
ber for Middlesex.
Mr. W 1 SE supported the vote. If the question were
postponed till another Session additional reasons would be
urged for deferring the grant.
Sir E. CODRINGTON objected to the site being
projected in the river, as the navigation of the river would
be thereby impeded.
Sir R. BATESON was opposed to incurring further
expense.
Mr. J. MAXWELL objected to the vote on the same
grounds as the Hon. and Gallant Admiral (Sir E. Cod-
rington.)
Mr. ESTCOURT and Mr. HOPE supported it. . .

Mr. WALLACE was decidedly of opinion that the
postponement should take place. He thought it possible
from what he had heard of the Queen, that her Majesty
might be induced to give up St. James's Palace for the
purpose.
Sir C. BURRELL protested against any further op-
position to the vote.
Mr. G. F. YOUNG should support the vote.
The Committee then divided.

For the grant
Against it ' 2O
Majority

neat vote was 13,172!. lof toe pritiLiog and e‘otoio
of public records under the controul of the Record Com-
mission.

Mr. C. BULLER denounced the present Record Com-
mission as a job.
Sir R. INGLIS defended its proceedings.
After a few words from Lord John Ruscli, Mr. C. W.
Wynn, and Dr. Bowring, the rote was agreed to.

'The following votes were also agreed to.
5,000/. to the Royal College of Surgeons at Edinburgh.
3001. in aid of the funds of the Royal Dublin Society.
9,030/. for the purchase of three pictures for the National
Gallen•.
On the question that 1,200/. he granted to the trustees
of the British Museum for the purchase of Etruscan vases
from the collection of the Prince of Canino,

Mr. HUME wished to know upon whose recommenda-
tionand valuation the two last ptirrhaseswere made ?

Mr. R. COLBORNE stated that the trustees of the
National Gallery had made a point of purchasing only the
best productions of the great masters which are deserving of
the character of notabdil. For instance, the Murillo was
known to he one of the first productions of that great.
toaster. He might also acid that he knew several of the
very best works of art in this country would be either given
or left to the National Gallery.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER stated
that the picture by Salvator Rosa ►vas admitted to be a
first-rate work by that master, and was formerly offered to
the Government for 2,000/. ; but, some delay occurring, it
went into private hands. It was now procured at a re-
duced price. Private parties had offered a larger sum for
the three pictures.
Mr. HAW ES trusted that within a short time there
would be a British Gallery of Art in connection with the
National Gallery.

Mr. GI LLON objected to the purchase of pictures when
there was such a small surplus.
The vote was then agreed to.
17,910/. Bs. Id. was voted for compensation to British
subjects in Upper Canada, for losses they sustained during
the war of 1813-14.

On the vote that 142,1601. 14s. 6d. be granted for ad-
vances for arrears of charges for the salaries of Judges
and other officers, and for the administration of justice in
Lower Canada,

Mr. HUME expressed his determination to oppose this
vote.

Mr. ROBINSON supported the vote.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL stated that in the next Par-
liament Government would be prepared to act upon the re-
solutions which had passed the House.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord STANLEY was glad to hear the present vote
moved, as it was a guarantee that Ministers would not
shrink from the pledge they had made to the House upon
this subject, and which he was glad to hear responded by
the Noble Lord.—( Hear, hear.)
After a few words from Mr. HUME,

Lord J. RUSSELL said that it was the opposition
which Hon. Gentlemen opposite had thrown in the way of
the public business which had prevented the Government
proceeding with any Bill on the subject of Canada.
After a few words from Mr.SHAW,
The House divided, when the numbers were—
For the vote 43
Against it. lO
Majority

On our return to the gallery we found—
Sir J. H 0 BIIOUSE on his legs, respecting a vote for
some experiments connected with a steam communication
with India, by the Red Sea. The Right Hon. Baronet
said that, however large the sum might appear, it was
one which would immediately be subject to a great re-
duction, and that steam communication with India would
highly benefit both the mother country and our Eastern
possessions.
Mr. G. F. YOUNG wished to know whether the deci-
sion of the Committee appointed upon this subject would
in any way influence the appropriation of the money pro-
posed to be granted by this vote.
Sir J. HOBHOUSE said that when the Committee
was appointed he was of opinion that it would be most dis-
advantageous to the public service if the arrangement then
concluded were to be stopped by the decision of that Com-
mittee. Should, however, that decision be to enlarge the
plan, then these steam-boats and depots would be reay for
the operation of that plan.
Mr. WALLACE inquired whether the Post-office or
the Admiralty would have the controul of the packets ?
Mr. BARING replied that they would be controlled by
the Admiralty as far as the Red Sea, and for the remainder
of the distance by the East India Company.
The vote of 7,500/. was then agreed to.
The sum of 273,9121. was then voted to make up the
deficiencies in former grants for the same purpose.
On the motion that 192,0001. be granted for defraying
the charge of the disembodied militia,

Mr. HOME hoped that Government would take mea-
sures effectively to support the militia, so that if kept up at
all they might be made effective.
Mr. WALLACE said that none of the public money
had been more entirely thrown away than that spent on the
militia.
Lord HO WICK admitted the necessity of re-modelling
the militia. Had not the Session terminated so soon a
measure for that purpose would have been introduced by
th. Government.

The vote was then agreed to.
On the motion that 22,811/. be granted to defray the
expenses (wages, &c.) of the Post-office packets purchased
by the Admiralty,
Mr. WALLACE hoped the Government and the House
were now convinced that he had been right in denouncing
the bad management by the Post-office of these vessels. It
was a duty wholly inconsistent with the other and peculiar
functions of the Post-office.

Mr. C.:WOOD agreed with the Hon. Member, that the
Post-office had not the means of properly managing their
packets.
Mr. WALLACE hoped the Admiralty management
would give more satisfaction than that of the Post-office.
The vote was agreed to.
The sum of 10,770/. was then voted for steamers for the
fleet ; the sum of 2,4881. for the salaries of officers in the
Admiralty Office ; the sum of 2,390/. for the salaries of
officers in the navy est7.blishment at home ; the sum of
4,0001. for the wages of artificers, &c., in the same ; the
sum of 155,000/. for naval stores, &c.; the sum of 3,0001.
for repairs, and new works in the dockyards ; and the sum
of 30,800/. for sailing packets.
The resolutions were then ordered to be reported, and
the House resumed.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL, moved the third read-
ing of the Imprisonment for Debt Bill.
Mr. RICHARDS opposed the motion.
The Bill was then read a third time.
Some clauses having been added to it by way of riders,
and a few verbal amendments having been made in two or
three of the clauses,

Mr. AGLIONBY moved an amendment, the effect of
which was to restore the principle of the 13th clause as it
originally stood, by constituting the Court of Bankruptcy
a Court of Record.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL would offer the pro-
position of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman no opposition.
The amendment was agreed to. •
The Bill was then passed.
On the motion for bringing up the Report of the Com-
mittee on the Parliamentary Electors Bill,
Sir R. INGLIS objected to bringing forward this Bill
at so advanced a period of the session.
Mr. W. GLADSTONE understood from the Noble
Lord that all questions which involved any great difference
of opinion were not to be proceeded with. It appeared to
him that proceeding with the present Bill was a distinct
violation of the pledge given by the Noble Lord.
Mr. lIAWES said that the whole objection to this Bill
was because it was a popular Bill.
Mr. H. HINDE had no hesitation in the course he
should pursue, which was to oppose the Bill.
On the motion that the Report be received, the House
divided, and there appeared—

For the Motion 55
Against it
Majority
The Report was then received.
The Ecclesiastical Appointments Suspension Bill went
through Committee.
The House then went into Committee on the Punish-
ment of Death Bill.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that there were certain of-
fences against the person for which punishment of death
was provided, but which it was considered ought not to be
visited with a capital punishment. He had prepared a
clause which he would now move, providing for the re-
moval of the punishment of death in those cases. He also
proposed to take away from the Quarter Sessions the power
of the trial of offences of a grave nature, or which might in-
volve nice and complicated questions, and to leave the trial
of such cases to the Judges. The Noble Lord moved the
additional clauses to this effect.
After a few words from Mr. Sergeant GOULBURN
and Mr. AG LIONBY, the Bill went through Committee,
and was reported to the House.
On the motion of Mr. P. THOMSON, the House went
into Committee on the Masters' adWorkmen 13111.
In reply to a question from Mr.n G. WE. YOUNG,
Mr. P. THOMSON said that the object of the Bill
was to amend a mistake in a Bill brought in by the Hon.
Member for Middlesex some years ago, and which provided
that in certain cases of summary conviction the conviction
should take place before a Magistrate residing in the die-
trict where both the parties lived. Now as the plaintiff
might live in a different district from the defendant, a
difficulty would arise with respect to the jurisdiction of the
magistrate, and the object was to remedy this defect. He
also proposed to extend the time for makinz complairti

Irmo cii;lit s, ,ks at pruseot, to !owlet: la (I,tys. 11;,
bc!ievcd the Bill was satisfactory to both workmen and
misters.

After a few words from Mr. WAKLEY, the Bill passed
through Committee. _

BILLS OF EXCHANGE BILL.

After a few words from Mr. RIC HA R DS, this
was read a third time.

EXCHEQUER BILLS (PUBLIC WORKS.) I
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved
the order of the day, that the House go into Committee
upon this Bill, which being agreed to, the Right Hon. Gen-1
tleman moved a further advance of 500,0001. in Exchequer
Bills, for the service of public works.—Agreed to.
'['he House resumed,
WAYS AND MEANS.

OA the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EX-
CHEQUER, the House again went into Committee, when
the Right Hon. Gentleman moved a resolution for the issue!
of Exchequer bills to the amount of 5,220,0001., being the!
amount of the supplies voted.—Agreed to.

The Resolution was reported, and the House resumed.
FINAL REGISTER OF ELECTORS BILL.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL moved the third reading of
this-Bill.

Mr. Sergeant GOULBURN moved its third reading
that day three months.
The gallery was then cleared for a division—
Ayes
Noes
Majority for the third reading —2l
The Bill was then read a third time and passed.
MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS BILL.

Lord J. RUSSELL moved the Order of the Day for
the Lords' reasons to this Bill being taken into considera-
tion. The Noble Lord then moved a verbal amendment
on one of the Lords' amendments, and that a conference
with their Lordships be requested upon the subject.—
Agreed to.

Admiral CODRINGTON presented a petition from
Mr. Rowland Milner, respecting his being deprived of his
half-pay.—Laid on the table.

ROYAL NAVY.

Mr. G. F. YOUNG, after a commentary upon the little
attention paid to naval architecture in this country, as espe-
cially exemplified since our dockyards had been under the
superintendence of the present surveyor of the navy ; and
after describing the manner in which men-of-war, perfectly
sound in their timbers, had nevertheless been broken up,
and others built on inferior constructions, moved for certain
returns as an amendment to the motion for bringing up the
Report of the Navy Estimates.
Mr. C H ARLES WOOD thought it was incumbent on
any Hon. Member moving for returns to show some good
and sufficient reasons why those returns should be granted.
After a few words from Captain Berkeley, Captain
Dundas, Admiral Adam, and Captain Pechell, the:gallery
was cleared for a division, but none took place, as the mo-
tion was negatived without it.

The resolution was then agreed to.
DUNDEE POLICE.

The Dundee Police Bill (No. 2) was read a third timel
and passed.
REFORM OF PARLIAMENT (IRELAND.)
The Reform of Parliament (Ireland) Bill went into
Committee.

Mr. CALLAGHAN had omitted all except the pre.
amble and the first clause of the Bill.

Mr. SHAW deprecated change even in such small mat-
ters, as it was likely to be productive of evil, but he should
make no objection to the Bill.
The Bill was then ordered to be reported to the House.