The Sun.
London, England, 1837-02-09 00:00:00

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who Led made longertli‘ch es. He wotild not follow the Letts nerd
Member for Bandon, or the Right Honourable Gentle-
man, the Member for Dublin University; neither would 'he
imitate the Gallant Member for Donegal, who had
brought forward charges against Mr. „Hudson affecting his
character as. a lawyer and a gentlemem—( them, hear,
hear.) He wished rather to call the atteni, ion of the House
to the matter before it—whether Ireland was to receive the be-
nefit of Municipal Corporations or not ? lion. eseneibers oppo-
site refused them upon the plea that they would he normal
schools of political agitation—(Hear)—but they mus,t be
either short-sighted, or politicians of that class who arc
influenced by other motives, than one of legislating bene.i-
cially for the country. They affected to dread the evils'
e — which themselves created, and when they refused Municipal
CHELSEA PANTTY SESSIONS. Corporations to Ireland, from a fear of their paternity, they
gave birth to the fearful progeny they so much dreaded. What,
vase- -- he would ask, was the character of the National Association ?
HOARRYEn Tuesday
DGELL and Mr. morning these
Session
TRAIVs commenced before My. Was the Association composed of this party or of that?-_
FLOOD, County Magis- (Hear, hear.) Did it not take in a whole nation ? And .
St. Luke Chelsea.
teases, at the Board-room of the wor,khouse of the parish of he would ask Hon. Gentlemen opposite, whether the normal
After the usual routine schools which they last Session professed to dread, would of parochial be,siness had been trans- have conduced more to agitation than that cause which had
acted, the overseers introduced to the notice of the Bench a condensed a nation into aSo
his He would there.
young female, who evidently once posse:wed great personal fore ask them to grant this measure this year for the
attractions, but who was most miserably ateired, her apparel same reason they had denied it last year; and what
consisting of an old gown and shawl thrown lo esely around her, they had refused in 1836, they should now offer as a boon to
without those other necessary articles of clothinee befitting her their political consistency.—( Hear, hear.) There was another
sex. The applicant seemed to be in the last seege of a con- reason, however, why they should now concede Corporate
surnption, and from her exceedingly debilitated state. was ac- Reform—there was another and a stronger inducement for
commodatcd with a chair by order of the Magistrateae The them to concede it--(Hear, hear,)—the power and the
unfortunate creature then commenced stating her distressie`w consequences which would result from the Association.--
case, and wept the whole time during its narration. She said (Hear, hear.) There was an old aphorism which said that
that she had at last been compelled, after having passed . Knowledge is Power," and the National Association had
many sleepless nights in the open air, during the late in- tatraeht the people of Ireland that knowledge ; and he would
clement season, and suffered not only the pangs of cold and ask ;whether it was prudent to deny the people who had
hunger but those of disease, to solicit, however painful it was procureel that knowledge their just rights? It is said
to her feelings, that the parish officers of Chelsea would pro- that it win be done by this, as:tit was done by the Catholic As
vide her with an asylum, and afford her some little nourish- sociation. 'They had suppressed the Catholic Association, but
meet, in order to prevent her from dying from starvation. not before it suppressed their opposition to Catholic Emancipa
The applicant here stopped, being prevented from proceed- tion. They could -form no better opinion ofthe Society and what
ing by bursting into a flood of tears. Having sobbed and power it could command, than ,by considering what it had
sighed heavily'for a few minutes, she continued. Her name achieved; and he would ask what had been the state of Ire-
was Rode, and she had a husband living at Worcester, holding a land before its existence ? The Catholic was silent, certainly_ lucrative appointment under Government in the Excise, who he said nothing—but his miseries were as numberless as
had most cruelly deserted her, and returned unopened all the if every tyranny in Europe had conspired to make him
communications she had addressed to him for pecuniary aid. wretched. He was scarcely a rational being, for he never
His income, she understood, amounted to about 1501. per ann. enjoyed the blessings of education. He was not a social
Prior to his going into the country, he was confined for some being, for he was deprived of the i*witercourse of social life,
months in Whitecross-street-prison. On regaining his liberty, and was considered to be composed of such base materials as
it was a considerable time before he got reinstated in the du- should not be permitted to amalgamat. 3 with those of society.
tics of his office, and upon his again obtaining employment, he
—( Hear.) Such was the Catholic at that period; but what
promised, notwithstanding the differences that had existed be- was the situation of his opponents? Tl iey were at the same
twcen them, to provide for and protect her. He had not kept period in the fulness of their vigour, ann in all the maturity of
his word, for since the time of his quitting the metropolis to the
their
se manhood, and all the prejudices of he time favoured the
present moment, she had never seen or heard anything of him. tyranny they exercised. —( Hear.) But thostel: Mr. EDGELL—How have you been living, and where have expelled—they had vanished before the rehiudrenictlei
hadof been
Re-
you you been sleeping latterly? Applicant—Upon the bounty, form ; and when the Irish people had achieved this
Sir, of a few former friends, who are now tired out by re- without possessing the advantages which they now enjoyed,
pealed applications.
would their just demands be refused when they come before the
Mr. Erieraw,—.Where did you sleep last night ? Applicant House in all the strength- of the power they bias •c acquired ?-
-On Chelsea Common.
( Hear, hear.) It was not a party which no w sought for
Mr. EDGELL—Have you partaken of any refreshment to- the removal of grievances with which it was hffiieted; but
day ? Applicant—None, Sir, with the exception of a slice the great body of the people which had placed it: .elf in a na-
of this (producing a piece of dry bread) and a draught of water tional attitude, and asked them to do justice to unmet as a nation.
on my road here. lam dying; I shall not trouble any one He had been called an alien and a stratiger, and 'until tors
lone. The applicant, then alluded to the manner in which she porate 'reform was granted to Ireland, he tehould consider him
had been treated by te parochial authorities of many of the self a member of a stigmatized body.--(1-Lear, hear.)
metropolitan parishes.
Mr. W. ROC HE had said five years: ago that he was not
Mr. EDGELL—Are your parents living? Applicant—My an unqualified repealer, but he never -would allow Ireland
father, who carried on a very extensive business as a tailor, in to be trampled upon or annibilasiad, and be would
Leicester-square and Welbeek-street, Cavendish-square, is sooner vote for a repeal of the Union,. or even for a dis-
dead, leaving all the property he possessed to my brother, a solution between the two countries, rather than see his
little boy, now residing, as I have heard, in some town in the country thus treated. But the circumstances of Ireland had
north of England. My mother, as I understand, is living at
very much changed since that time ; and .-under paternal
East-end, in Essex. My family, which I lament to say is a Government of Lord Mulgrave, supported .as thatthe Government
very divided one, are, doubtless, unacquainted with my mi- was by a majority of the British House of Commons, Ireland
serable situation ; they entertain an idea that lam protected might now expect justice.—( Hear, bear.), The Hon. Member
by my husband, to whom I was married at the age of 15, at vindicated-the National Association from ihe aspersions that
St. James's-church, Piccadilly. The last time I saw my nso- had been cast upon it ; that Association was formed for
ther was in Holborn, shortly after a reconciliation had taken general purposes, and so far from producing collisions
place between me and my husband.
or misunderstandings, it would have, and alre achy in a great
Mr. EDGELL—How old are you now ? Applicant—l am
twenty-two years of age.
EDGELLW measure had, the effect of putting an end to sectarian animosi-
ties. He concluded by imploring the House to support his
Were you always on good terms with your Majesty's Government in doing justice to Ireland.
mother? Applicant—Yes, Sir.
Mr. LUCAS observed that the ground taken by Honoura-
Mr. EDGELL—Have you led a virtuous life since your sepa- ble Members on the ether side of the House was that the Irish -
ifration from your husband ? Applicant—l trust I have, Sir; people Were fit to govern thernselves.—( /leer.) That, he con-
I had not, I should not have been in this wretched situation. tended, had very little to do with the question, for it was
I can prove that.
an abstract principle ; but the real question• at issue was,
Mr. EDGELL—It gives me great pleasure to hear that your
honour is unblemished.
Cornell—What is the address of your husband? Ap- whether the Bill introduced by the Noblei Lord, was cal.
Don culated to produce good or evil for Ireland? That he
r.
conceived was the real question, and the abstract proposi-
of Excise, Worcester. plicant—Mr. Rede, guard-officer, to the care of the Collector tion, of whether tine were Wore people of Ireland ore or less
prudent or sensible than those of other countries had
. The Magistrates then addressed the applicant, and said they welling to do with it ; altlieugh he must admit. that that
commiserated her dise=essing case. Her husband would be
, role of argument was very popular both in that House
written to by their clerk to come to some arrangement for ner and out of doors. This ivas a Bill for a -Reform of the Irish
support, and in the event of his not attending to the communi. Corporations, and the question at issue amongst kembers in that
cation, a warrant should issue for his immediate apprehension. House was, _whether the Reform conetplated' by his Ma-
The applicant having thanked the Magistrates for the at- jesty's Ministers was a just and fittiziggeßeforre -or not ?
tcntion they had given her melancholy case, withdrew. . ( Hear, hear, hear.) The only date Ens e're -like way- in which
to view that question was to consider its prectical
effects. His (Mr. Lucas's) opinion was that the estarslishing
of Corporations would be productive of miseZeief, or at least
would work for another object than that fur windr it
was ostensibly intended. It had the appearance of peo-
viditig for the good government of borough towns; but
it had been kept totally out of the question, that it would in-
crease the power of the party who sat on the Ministerial
side of the House, "and diminish the power of the
party who sat on his (Mr. Lucas's) side of the Home
lie dechired his concurrence in the Resolutions of the Protes
time meeting, so severely commented on in that House. He
believed that the patronage of Government, and the exerciser
of mercy, had been made use of to the injury of the
people, and" against the known opinions of the Judges
of the land. Il^ r.AS at a loss to conceive in what consisted
the liberty of the subject if the free expression of Protestant
seutimeet was to be put down, and he did not know how the
Lords and Commoners who signed tire protest against the meet-
ing could consistently deny the Protestant party the same right .
of 'expressing their opinions which they claimed for themselree.
He did not mean to assert that the fact of being a member of a
political Association was sufficient to deny to a gentleman the
Commission of the Peace, but it would be recollected that the
object of the Association was to aid and abet people in their
resistance to the law, and he therefore thought Mr. Cassidy a
very, unfit person to select for the administration of the law—
more. especially as he had been convicted of an offence con-
nected with the resistance to the collection of tithes.
He cordially concurred in the opinions expressed on that
side of the House. He identified himself completely with
the purport of the Resolutions passed at Dublin, and he was
but too happy to belong to the miserable minority described
by the Noble Lord opposite.—(A laugh, and cheers.)
Mr. HARDY said that there bad been nothing to change
the opinions which he had expressed last year; on the
conteary, every thing that had occurred inn Ireland since
that time tended to strengthen those opinions.—( Hear, hear.)
He did not think that the people of Ireland were fit to re-
ceive the responsible charge of Municipal Corporations.—
( Hear.) They were not in tine same situation—they were not
actuated by the same feelings as the people of this country.
It was a well known fact, that if Municipal Corporations were
granted to Ireland, the effect would be to raise an intolerable
despotism, wielded by one uncontrouled individual.—( Cheers. )
The effect of that •Bill would further be to throw open the cor-
porate offices to every description of persons. It would bo
the height of injustice to take the staff from the hand of
one party, and give it to another.—( Hear, hear. )—lt had keen.
asserted that the Irish people were treated with insult ; but.
that statement he took leave tp deny. What was the present
condition of that country? An Association, founded on the
same principle as the old Catholic Association, had sprung up,
which assumed to itself the most arbitrary power.—( Hear.)
There might be some excuse for the Catholic Association;
but with a Government favourable to the views of the
Irish Radicals, there was none for the present. Was not the
present tranquillity the tranquillity of terror, and not that of
obedience to the law ? The Hon. Member here read an ex-
tract from an Irish paper, detailing an instance of passive re-
sistance to tithes when no' sale could be effected, and the
people separated in the utmost quietness.—(Ministerial
cheers.) What was that but an instance of the deceitful
tranquillity that at present reigned in Ireland ?—(Hear.)
The Protestant clergy were imprisoned in their houses, and
could not stir abroad unless under the protection of the
'police.—(Hear, hear.) They knew what it ivas' to starve and
to suffer every privation, and yet the Noble Lord said that
they suffered no pain.—( Hear, hear.) It was said that the
tithe would be enforced, but the Noble Lotd went on day after
day making concessions to the people of Ireland, although
he (Mr. Hardy) did not think they should obtain any in. the
shape of Corporate Reform, until they learned to conduct
themselves, like the people of England and Scotland.—( Hear. )
Mr. J. .GRATTAN said, that they must either grant
Corporate Reform, or they, in fact, repealed the Acts of
Unipn and Emancipaticn, which had repealed disqualifica-
tions.-e-( Hear.) If they abrogated . corporations altogether,
they would place Ireland Mg worse position than it was in since
its connection e ith England ; for Henry the Second had gone
over to Ireland, and had given the people there Corporations,
saying-it was for the purpose of placing them onat;i the same
footing with - the people of England. —Ulcer, hear, hcar.)
Lord Grey told the people of England that he despaired
of getting a reform of the House of Commons, unless
the people bestirred themselves, and that he must
The le
appeal •to - the people.—(Hear, hear.) peo p
met and listened to his appeal, and carried Reform.
Why should not the same language be addressed to the people
of Ireland ? The Hon. and Learned Member for Bandon
told the House. that the National Association was illegal ;
but the lion. and Learped. Gentleman was content with
saying so—he did not endeavour to prove his assertion. But
were there no other assemblies inn Ireland of an illegal
character ?—( Loud cheering.) Were there no other
assemblic.s in Ireland, in which violent and most
unjustifiable language was used, both with respect to the Lord-
Lieutenant of Ireland and every member of the Government?
Lord Miltown wrote on the 2d of May that the words of Lord
Lyndhurst were so insulting, that be could no longer refrain
front joining his fellow-countrymen in seeking their rights.
—(Bear, hear.) He admitted that they established finance
and registry Committees ; and inn this they only acted upon
the principle fits est ab hoste doceri—upon the advice of the
Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth, to fight the
battle of the Constitution at tine registry courts. Ile declared
.himself a member of the Association, and he asked
'gentlemen opposite, would they assert that he was a
traitor to his country and a rebel to his King ? They_
should not assert that in their packed private meetings which,
they were afraid to otter in their places in that House. lf.
they so spoke they might expect such language to be replied
to in the strongest terms which courtesy would allow. It was.

Mr. WILSON presented a petition, complaining of that
part of the Act which requires the names of the proprietors to
he written in full on their tax-carts.
CORPORATE REFORM—TITHES—(IRELAND.)
Mr. R. D. BROWN presented petitions from the parishes
of Kilcollman and Kilmeena, in the county of Mayo, in favour
of Corporate Reform for Ireland, and for the total abolition of
Tithes.

SOAP DUTY.
Lord R GROSVENOR presented a petition from his con
stituents, praying for arepcalof the Soap Duties.

CHURCH RATES.

Mr. FOSTER moved that there be laid before the House
an account of any sum or sums due and owing on the credit of
Church-rates in England and Wales, stating how the same
was secured, I: ether by mortgage, annuity, or otherwise. lie
understood from the Under Secretary that there was no objec-
tion to the return.

Mr. FOX MAITLE begged to be understood as merely
having stated that he was not aware of any objection to the
return.

Mr. ROBERT STEUART presented a petition from a
united congregation of Dissenters, in Roxburghshire, praying
for the total abolition of Church-rates.

Mr. R PALMER presented a petition from a parish in
Berkshire against the total abolition of Church-rates.

CRIMINAL LAW.

Sir E. WILMOT brought in a Bill for leave to reserve
points of law raised at the Quarter Sessions for the consider-
ation of the Judges—respiting, in the mean time, the sentence
passed upon the prisoners.