The Sun.
London, England, 1830-06-09 00:00:00

THE CURRENCY.

Mr. DAVENPORT observed, that as his Hon:
Friend, the Member for Callington, had a motion
for to-night similar to one of which he had himself
given notice, he would with great pleasure yield
precedence to hie Hon. Friend ; reserving to himself
the right to throw out such suggestions as might
subsequently occur to him on a subject of such vital
importance to the people.'
Mr. ATTWOOD then rose—He was prepared to
propose to the House to affirm two resolutions ; the
first, that it was expedient to re-establish that ancient
and legitimate metallic standard which in 1797 had
been suspended, and which the Act of 1819 pro-
fessed, but had failed to revive; and the second, that
it was expedient to alter the pecuniary legality of
silver, by rendering silver coin a legal tender in
England for an amount above five pounds, as it
already was in Ireland and Scotland. He confessed
that he could see no just reason why, at the present
time, there should be any great distress and difficult),
in the country. The truth was, that the existing dis-
tress and difficulty were resolvable into the pecuniary
embarravment in which the present system of our
currency had involved the industrious classes.—
It was in vain to say that money had changed its
value as compared with former periods. In the his-
tory of money there had been but one such change:
it followed the discovery of the new world. Hav-
ing once permanently fallen, a re-action took place;
and the fluctuations in the value of money as the
standard of property became excessively ruinous ;
becoming the cause of ruin and injustice among all
classes of the community; evils which no human
foresight could avert. It was obvious that manufac-
turing and commercial prosperity could not co-exist
with a standard of value so changeable as that of
the last fifteen years. He was satisfied that our own
artificial measures had been the cause of the evil.
He would now advert to the first of those measures
—the Act of 1797. In 1797 was first established
a paper currency, not exchangeable into gold ;—a
pure paper currency, with no limit but the caprice of
the individuals by whom it was issued, and for
which no person could demand payment of any
other in gold. The Act of 1797, by which this
currency was introduced, suspended, or rather
abolished for the time, that ancient metallic stan-
dard, which, for more than two centuries,-Lad,
with no variation, been the measure of property
in this country. At the close of 1819, that stan-
dard, which had been established without reflec-
tion, was, without enquiry, abandoned. The old
money of the country, almost unknown to the ex-
isting generation, was brought back and substituted
for the paper money; without the slightest con-
sideration that the tngagements which bad been
made in the one standard were thus to be redeemed
in the other. The effect of the change introduced
in 1819 was to make a great addition to the taxes,
not only which had been imposed during the imme-
diately preceding war, but which had accumulated
during the wars of two centuries. For two-and-
twenty years, every contract made in this country
was founded upon that standard—he meant the
paper standard; and then, suddenly, the ancient
standard was brought back, and engagements made
in the one were rendered payable in the other. If
the House would but remember the state of the
landed interest at this period, they would see how
terms; and
caied on, as it
it had been affected by the change. Every settle-
ment, every mortgage, was affected, by it; being,
acosmthmeyereaell
s‘hvaerreedexthpe ressed in money
commerce samefate—
was, by a universal system of pecuniary credit.
The Bill did not come, as some Hon. Gentlemen
had supposed, upon a plea of justice ; at that tittic

justice its not 'talked of, but those who foresaw
the tonsfjpiertc4, which had since ensued, were
treated as viMoaries, and their predictions scouted
'will utter disregard. He would affirm that faith
had been violated by the standard of 1819 ; taxes
payable subsequently were unjust impositions; for
no tax could be just which was not consented to by
the people or by their Representatives; and in the
cases of those taxes it was impossible there could be
any consent, seeing that they could have bad no
knowledge of the amount. They could not—that
is, the great mass of the people, could not
tell what would be the value of money ;

for the money of 1819 was not the money
of 1797. In the early part of ,the last century gold
had sunk in value, and at another period silver had
fallen : then one rose and then the other; and as

those changes took place, the people found it their
interest sometimes to pay their debts in one metal,
sometimes in another, according to the changes in
their value ; and now the interest of the people was

if possible to discharge their obligations in paper, for
the debtor always sought to discharge his obliga-
tions in the cheapest possible manner that the law
will allow.—(Of this principle the Hon. Member
gave some practical illustrations, but hTs voce so
frequently fell, that we found it impossible closely
to pursue the course of his observations either then,
or at other parts of his speech.)—He proceeded to
observe that the advance of gold was not peculiar
to this country; that it had taken place in France
and elsewhere, and that what had occurred with re-
spect to it, as well as other circumstances in the
condition of the country, into which he entered at
considerable length, led him to the opinion that a
double standard would be likely to afford the country
considerable relief—would give relief to the landed
interest, and would advance the wages of labour.
The Hon. Member next proceeded to notice the
measures taken in 1816 to protect the new silver
coinage from being melted down ; it was fixed

at ss. Gd., and for its protection qd. was taken

off its value, so as to render melting it an

unprofitable operation; so much of its value was
taken awe), and then it became a token coin-
age, and not one of intrinsic values It happened,
however, that this coinage could be imitated in other
countries so perfectly that the deceit could not be
detected, and in a distant part of the country not
less than 80,000/. had accumulated, and that evi-
dently at a loss to this country. At the present
moment gold was beyond the price of silver; and if
the average of the five years ending 1785 were
compared with the average of the five years ending
1830, it would be found that the difference was as
much as 13 and 14 per cent.; and if the twenty
years ending 1785 were compared with the twenty
years ending 1830, it would be found that the dif-
ference was as much as 111 per cent. In all cases
he would maintain that the policy of England had
been to maintain a silver standard. In the reign
of Elizabeth the statesmen of that period maintained
the old standard, and dealt with gold as the conve-
nience dictated. In the reign of King William the
practice was the same, though the gold rose as much
as 39 per cent. in value : in all the variations of the
value of gold the silver standard was uniformly ad-
hered to, yet the Legislature of England, at a most
distressing period, bound the burdens of the
country by that most astringent standard, of which
Mr. Locke had said that it was not, and should not,
be the money of the world. When, in 1819, a
metallic standard was inflicted upon paper obliga-
tions, the country knew nothing of what was
being done;--the most valuable part of the
community, and those best acquainted with their
own concerns, knew nothing of the injury they were
exposed to, and that was an ignorance of which the
House largely partook ; and by an immitigable,
blind, remorseless fatality, they could not deviate
from the course which led them to trample upon
the ruined farmer, to confiscate a large portion of
the landed property of the country, and to drive the
agricultural ►abourer to pauperism and crime, and
all the other appalling occurrences by which the
history of this country had been since distinguished.
Was it fit, he would ask, that in legislating under
such circumstances, upon such a subject the House
should, abandoning the more than a Roman con-
stancy by which it was previously governed, all at
once acknowledge itself the slave of political expe-
diency ? The Hon. Gentleman again recurred to
the ancient standard, observing, that it was neither
gold nor silver, nor both, but coin of a certain quality,
protected by laws wWels made its export highly
penal, as well as its increase by any importations.
It was well known that an abundance of money
led to its being of low value. The object of
those by whom the laws for its protection were
enacted, was to keep the quantity of money in
circulation free from very violent fluctuations—the
evil of which, those who lived in the present times
had a right most loudly to complain. It was only
inasmuch as bullion was money that it had re-
fere►►ce to this question, and when it was separated
from that it ceased to be a measure for tnonev, and
was only just as all other commodities might be.—
The value of mocey was to be ascertained from the
general pike of commodities, or if one particular
standard was to be rased, it ought to be that of
corn, which all eminent writers on the subject had
taken as the best single standard that could be
adopted, as it was always found that corn most cor-
responded with the money price of labour. Corn,
during the Restriction Act, greatly advanced in
price ; and a variety of reasons—all but the right
one—were given for this. But if any of these rea-
sons had been right, it was evident that a similar
advance in price would have taken place at any pre-
vious period when the same circumstance occurred ;
and yet at no time previously was it found that corn
ever rose to above 505.; and therefore all above
that amount was to be ascribed to the paper depre•
ciation. When the House thought fit to adopt the
course of requiring the ,country to pay the contracts
that were made in paper currency in a metal cur-
rency, it was certainly within the power of the Le-
gielature to make such an arrangement ; but how the
burthen was to be borne, depended on a power
greater than any act of Parliament—it depended
on the laws of nature. By such an arrange-
ment as thin, the whole moneyed value of the
country became changed. This fact rested on no
doubtful basis; and lie knew no better course that
he could take to prove that, than to refer to past
experience; for that would establish, beyond con-
tradiction, that no distress had existed but what was
produced by this evil. And in the first place, let
them go back to the time of war—the period when
paper debts were paid in paper. The prosperous
condition of the country, then, with respect to the
main interests connected with it, was undeniable,
and never was there a period when it was more
commensurate to bear the burthens which that war
entailed upon it. The depreciation of the money at
that time gave a stimulus to the production of in-
dustry ; but when the peace came, Parliament put an
end to that depreciation : nay, it even did more; for
it passed an Act to force back the value of mcney to
the period of 1797. That Act required that the en-
gagements of the period of the war should be paid
in the old standard; or, in other words, that the
standard of 1797 should be applied to all those en-
gagements. This being the case, he begged to call the
attention of the House to the character of that Act of
Parlatment.. In December,lBo3, the Bank Restriction
Act was raade perpetual during the war, and the
consequence of this was, the providing one standard
J.,. for the time of war,. and another for the time of
peace; for it was to be observed that paper-money
might be debased by quantity just as metal money
was abased by adulteration; and, therefore, in the
course that was pursued, in leaving it to individuals
to judge how much paper circulation they would
have in the country, it was just as if it should have
been proposed to take the metal money out of the
hands• of the Government, and put it lute those of
individuals, to whom was given the power to de-
base and adulterate it as much as their interests dic-
tated. Nor was this all ; it was just as if Government
had said to them, the more You debase it the more we
will encourage you—the more you depreciate the more
we ss•il► go on with pensions and places, to meet the
abundanCe; and to windup the whole, the remedy thut

we will devise For all this shall be, that at the end of the
war, whether in 10, 15, or 20 years, we will now

pledge ourselves, or any future Parliament, without
inqUiring into'what the depreciation may be, to bring
hack the whole of its original standard. That then
was the character of that Act of Parliament, and

he would venture to say that that Act of Par-
liament stood in the history of the Legislature as
unparalleled for all that was monstrous and absurd.
But it might have been passed in ignorance; proba-
bly it was so passed, for the Legislature of that day
could not have suspected such a meaning in the
Act as that which was now ascribed to it. Indeed,

eight years after the passing of it, the Legislature
professed its ignorance on this subject, for in 1811
one of the resolutions of the House expressed its
opinion that it did not believe that there was any
difference between paper money and metal money.
This, then, being the case, and the act in question
being in the shape of a contract, he was prepared to
contend that as such it was only to be interpreted
according to the original intention of its framers.
Taken in the other sense, several difficulties presented
themselves; and, in the first place, the question

. . _
of how we were to obtain gold presented itself.—
During the war, the nations on the Continent had
bought all our gold, and for the last supply had
given as much as .5/. 12s. an ounce; and yet there
was an Act to provide that we should purchase it
at 3/. I7s. 10Id. What, he should like to know,
was there to induce the Continent to bring back
gold to us at that price ? Besides which, it was to
be observed that anything which produced a violent
action in gold had a corresponding effect upon all
other property. But it was said that there had
been great distress in England at different periods.—
He knew that there had, and that the severest dis-

tress was experienced by the manufacturing interests.
In January, 1817, just when the distress was most
acutely felt, the subject was introduced to the House
by the Hon. and Learned Member for Knares-
borough, who took occasion to observe " that there
was a portentous difference between this and former
wars, for now our calamities began with the peace,
and the distress from year to year was getting worse.
At first the agriculturists suffered—then it extended
itself to all classes—and it had now reached a crisis

wholly unprecedented since the period of the Nor-
man conquest." To this succeeded the prosperity
of 1818, and from the evidence given by the Go-
vernor of the Bank of England, it was apparent that
this was owing to the increased circulation issued
by the Bank at that period. In January, 1819, the
Prince Regent stated, in his Speech from the
Throne, that the trade, commerce, and manufac-
tures of the country, were in a most flourishing con-
dition; but at the end of that Session, the Speech
from the Throne was to a very different effect. The
expressions then were that a spirit bad been mani-
fested utterly hostile to the Constitution of the
kingdom, and aiming not only at the change of that
Constitution, but at the conversion of the rights of

property ; and then the King called on the Parlia-
ment to protect the Constitution against the assaults
of that vet), people who, in the time of the war,
when Europe and America were combined against
this country, had formed its firmest bulwarks. These
were things that claimed attention, for they were not
unconnected with the distress that took its origin
from the adoption of the metal currency. The
prosperity of 1824 and 1825 was not consistent
with the metal standard of 1819, for by the year
1825 there was not a sovereign left in the bank;
and if the system had been pursued, there would not
have been a sovereign left in the country.—
The fact was, that the security of the standard
was balanced against the security of the
country, and the former was preferred. It was by
an additional issue of four millions from the Bank
that the prosperity of those years was occasioned;
and in February, 1825, the King, in his speech,
observed, that there never was a period before in
which all the great interests of the country had been
in so thriving a posture. And yet, now there was
not one of those great interests that had spirit
enough to support itself; and if they looked for the
cause of this, it was, that a metal standard had
driver► prosperity for the productive classes from
the country. But though this was the speech in
February, 1825, in March the Bank saw the neces-
sity that was pressing upon them—for what was
danger to the currency was danger to the Bank ;
and they gradually began to withdraw the increased
circulation—first, 1,300,0001.; then 700,0001.; and,
finally, another sum, so as to make altogether
3,500,0001., was deducted, so that little of the four
remained;millions and the consequence was, that
the same distress that had pervaded the country in
1822 was re-established. The cause of the present

transient revival of trade was attributa&e to the
same cause; but already the Bank was beginning to
feel it, and they would be obliged to withdraw a
portion of the circulation; for if the Bank would
enter into a pledge that the present State paper
(and he could not call it any thing else) should be
continued for two years, he would take upon him-
self to say, that there would be no more distress
among the productive classes, but that it would be
on the Bank and the metal standard instead, for the
two could not exist together. With respect to the
withdrawal of the one-pound notes, he thought that
the entire measure was objectionable; because, if
they were introduced to a certain extent, it would
be the means of relieving the metal standard to a
certain extent. For the observations which he had
made to the House he should not offer any
apology, because the subject was of that paramount
importance, that he was well convinced that the
time of the House could never be better bestowed
than in the consideration of this subject; and, with
respect to the measure he had to .propose to the
House, he would rest it on the grounds of justice,
necessity, policy, anti truth. The lion. Gentleman
concluded by moving two resolutions. The sub-
stance of the first was, that it was expedient to re-
peal so much of the 59th Geo. 111. c. 58, as went to
declai e that gold only should be the legal tender in
all money engagements. The resolution, as we
understood, also went to repeal so much of the
Act as prohibited the issue of notes under 51.; but
the Ilor. Gentleman read his resolutions so indis-
tinctly that it was almost impossible to catch their
purport in the gallery.
Mr. E. DAVENPORT regretted nothing in the
able speech which had just been delivered but that
it was too discursive. He contended that the pre-
sent standard had nothing to recommend it but the
assertions of Ministers. That standard was also an
innovation on the previous practices of the country.
Silver w as, according to Mr. Locke, the universal
measure of value, and gold only a commodity. He
could support this view also, by the evidence of the
Ministerial Member fur Callington—(A laugh)—
who had described our adherence to the gold standard
as pedantic and injurious.—Nothing was more un-
just than to lower the rate of profit and prices
here, to the rate of profit and prices on the Conti.
nent. The adoption of the gold standard was re-
ducing the prices here to a level with prices on the
Continent. What made it more injurious was, that
it enhanced taxation, while adopting a silver stan-
dard would at once relieve the burdens of taxa-
tion to the amount of 6or 7 per cent. Other na-
tions, such as Venice and France, had tried to esta-
blish a gold coinage, and had failed; but Bona-
parte, he believed, who had given a premium on gold
coin, had more power than any Chancellor of the
Exchequer. It would be less easy, then, for Eng-
land to do this, which gave no premium to keep gold
at home, and had less power to retain it, than it was
for France. The present system also placed the na-
tion at the mercy of speculators in gold. It had
been lately seen that the money broker's house had
reduced the House of Austria to dependence on it,
and had contracted all its operations, degrading that
illustrious House, because it tried to borrow in
another money-broker's shop. Another topic to
which he would refer was the great diminution of
the quantity of metals produced by the mines of
South America. Silver was reduced, he believed,
4-stlis in amount,.and gold was reduced still more
in quantity. Notwithstanding this lessened produc-
tion of the mines, silver had come much more into
Use than formerly—increasing the pressure felt by

the want of the precious metals as coin. The Hon.'
Member then referred to the opinions of Lord
Liverpool and Sir Robert Peel, to show that Ands-
ters had professed a desire to return to the ancient
standard of value, which, he contended, was either
silver or gold ; for that was the standard before
1797. He called on the Ministers to make their
words good, and not adopt as the ancient standard,
a standard which was, in fact, an exacerbation of it
to the amount of 80 per cent. He thought Minis-
ters were at least bound, therefore, to support the
first Resolution of the Hon. Member, and he hoped
they would remember their former words, and with
the Hon. Mover call for a restoration of the real

ancient standard.
The Resolutions were then put from the Chair.
Mr. BERRIES and Mr. BAntNe; rose together to
address the House, but the former gave way, and

Mr. BARING went on to say, that the two re-
solutions of his llon. Friend were essentially dif-
ferent—one related to the revival of the small notes,
the other to the use of a concurrent standard ; and
it would be very difficult to show that this concur-
rent standard of the two metals was not the old
standard of the country. After a debate of four

days •on the distress of the country, it was some-
what extraordinary that what caused the peculiar
state of things of which all complained was not
very clearly explained. In his opinion the altera-
tion' of the currency accounted for every thing.
When the value of money increased, that was shown
by a general fall of prices, and this was the cause of
that distress, which began among the upper, and ex-
tended to all classes. The prosperity we had expe-

. . _
rienced during the war, was owingto an opposite cause.
The cause then was, that every man of business who
went to sleep at night, found himself when he woke
in the morning richer than he was. Nothing was
more influential on the property of the people than
this continual rise in the value of their property.
They were all continually getting richer. Now,
dur.ng the last fifteen years, the very reverse of
this had been going on. The farmers, the mer-
chants, capitalists of every description, had seen
their property decreasing in value year after year.
On balancing their books at the end of six months,
or twelve months, they found their capital shrinking,
falling away, and that they were less wealthy than
they were. They were filled with despondency,
and with all the feelings of going to decay. No
doubt that this was the effect of the alteration of the
currency, which began with the resolution to get rid
of the paper currency and return to a metallic stan-
dard, and of which the last act was the getting rid
of the one and two pound notes. It was satisfac-
tory to be able to ascertain the cause of our distress,
for that might lead to avoiding it in future. It
arose from touching the currency, from tampering
with the standard—(llear, hear,)—from altering the
measure of value, which had put to hazard and ex-
posed to great risk all the property of the country,
and all its interests. '1 he ‘vitisdrawal of the small
notes had, he believed, caused a considerable increase
of our difficulties. It was not so much the amount

of that paper in circulation as the facility it gave to
carry on trade in the country. It .encouraged
country bankers—it established a local circulation,
and gave a great ficility for carrying on country
trade. The general currency, on the contrary,
tended to bring the whole circulation towards
Lombard-street; it was, perhaps, an advantage for
London, but it was injurious to the country—
(llear)—the withdrawal of the small notes'had
the• added to the distress. At the same time he
was impressed with the great difficulty of maintain-
ing our standards of value as long as they formed
a large part of our circulation; and being sensible
of that, he was willing to make a sacrifice far the
advantage of being able to maintain, in time of
pressure, our standard of value ❑naltered. When
he remembered what happened in 1525, and the
different panics, he was doubtful how far we should
be able to maintain our stand with many small notes

in circulation. The examples of Ireland and Scot
land were certainly conclusive us to the possibillty,
but it was difficult to say how far that could be
with safety extended. Paper money might be al-
lowed in one English county—it could not be limited
to Scotland ; but the wider it was extended, the
more difficult' it would make the maintenance of
our metallic standard in time of pressure. It had
been argued that the solvency of the hankers who
failed in 1825—a great proportion of them having
paid in full—was a proof that there was no danger
from a paper circulation ; but, in his view of the
matter, the solvency of these bankers was an argu-
ment against the system. If it overthrew those
who had property to meet the demand on them, was
not that a proof of its being dangerous? ills
Hon. Friend proposed to repeal the law for pre-
venting the issue of one pound and two pound
notes, which, in his view, might be some-
►vhat hazardous. To that part of the Resolutions
he was not disposed to accede. The other object
proposed by his Hon. Friend was of very great importance,
and on it he would say a few words. His Hon. Friend's
proposition was, that the silver standard should be con-
current with the gold standard. That was a measure
which, in the first place, would cause some depreciation;
and, in the second place, it might be right to inquire if
this depreciation would be justified. It might then be
considered what would be its effcct in preserving our me-
tallic standard, and he must at once say for himself that
he thought it would greatly improve our chance of main-
taining our standard. As to the extent to which it would
cause depreciation, that he thought would be perfectly jus-
tified. The alteration would not extend beyond five per
cent., which, as it would increase the facility for preserv-
ing the standard, would nut be a disadvantage. The
Hon. Member then entered into a brief history of our
currency, to show that up to 1797, silver and gold. had
been equally the standard of the country. The Act of
1798 went to suspend the coinage of silver, until that al-
teration, through the means of a Committee, was effected,
which alteration, in consequence of the introduction of a
paper circulation and other circumstances, never 'actually
took place. The case then, as be apprehended, stood
thus :—Up to 1798, the debtor had the power to tender a
payment in either gold or silver, but after that time it
was suspended by the Act to which he alluded, and it was
not until the year 1816 that the suspension of 1798 was
declared, by Act of Parliament, to be a permanent exclu-
sion of silver from the legal tenders of the country. He
said now, then, give us the same standard as that
which existed before the suspension of 1798 ; give us, he
would say, that power of paying either in gold or silver,
which existed before 1798, and which was suspended un-
til the coinage could be put on a better footing. It might
be said, however, and h.: did not deny its truth, that
the difference between the gold and the silver pay-
ment would be full five per cent., and that those who
thus obtained the power to pay in [dyer would gain five
pounds in every hundred which they paid to their credi-
tors. But if, in the present circumstances of the country.
and looking to the tremendous changes which had taken
place, all adjustment of the claims of those who had con-
tracted engagements in the depreciated currency was de-
nied them, then he would say that those who refused this
adjustment could not deny that the taking off five per cent.
in this way was a fair method of making the debtor some
remuneration for his less. Considering that England was
the only country in the world where such a standard as
that of gold exclusively was to be found, and that any other
country on earth had, in some way or other, admitted both
metals for that purpose, he confessed that he should not
regret to see that change take place, if it was merely to
arrive at that favourable conclusion for the debtor which
he had before described. lie thought, too, that if the old
standard was adopted, that standard which those who clung
to antiquity must surely approve of, there would be much
less probability of those derangements of our monetary
system which a sudden change of circumstances might
now produce. He knew that these things were much bet--
ter understood by calm examination in the closet, than by
explanation in that House by evidence before a Com-
mittee ; but still he thought that such an examination
would do much to prepare them in readiness for the alter-
ation. In reference to the silver standard, he would just
make an observation on a part of the question which in-
volved an objection, plausible enaugh at first, but, in his
mind, totally illusory and unsatisfactory. It was said,
then, by the theorists and the philosophers—he meant
them no offence when he called there so—that if you take
the two metals as a standard of value, you expose your-
self to all the variations which at all times prevail be-
tween these two things which you have adopted as a
standard. The object of a standard, they say, is fixity, and
by adopting the two metals, you take things which vary
with respect to each other; whereas, by taking any use,
you have a standard free from any such oljection. Now it

a s'ngu'ar thing, that thom who stirtel this objection
should have forgotten the example of France, whose inge-
nious and scientific men had applied themselves much to

le question of the variation of the two metals, and who,

Although they were acquainted with this objection of the
theorists, had surmounted sll the difficulties it presented,
and preserved the double standard with all its objections.
It was still more strange, however, that these theorists
should not see, that if they looked at the whole medium
of circulation, they would find the variations greater in
it than any which could tike place between the two metals.
They would find, in fact, that the variability of the two
metals in reference to each other, was as a mere drop of

water in the ocean compared with the variations which

frequently tock place in the circulating medium itself.
Look, for instance, at the Bank of England circulation.
Look at the extensions and withdrawals of circulation in

the year 1825, and they would find that the variations of
that period amounted to full 25 per cent. It was for
these and similar reasons, and from the feelings he enter-

......
tained on this subject, that he felt bound to vote for the
second resolution of his Hon. Friend (Mr. Attwood). He

adopted that course, too, that he might mark his opinions
on the question, although he confessed he would prefer, if
he had his choice, recommending the whop question to be

referred to a Committee. lie could not quit this snlqee!

without referring, however, to the opinions once delivered
by a Minister of England, with respect to the two stan-
ddrds. He admitted that from the manner in which that
great commercial company generally conducted their busi-
ness, he was not disposed to place much reliance on their
statements as authority ; but it was different with the
statements of individual Members, and there could be no

question that the experience and ability of Mr. Harman,
the gentleman to whose evidence he alluded, was entitled
to the greatest attention. Mr. Harman expressly declared
then, that if he could be brought to believe there was a
sufficiency of gold for the circulation of the whole of the
United Kingdom, he should think the gold standard the
preferable one; but, as it was otherwise, he was inclined
to favour the proposition for making silver also a standard.
For his (Mr. Baring's) part, he thought an unlimited
paper circulation the greatest evil which could fall on a
country ; and as he was anxious that, it any such event
a 4 war did come, it should find us prepared to meet its
difficulties, without having recourse to, such a device as
a paper currency, he thought the admission of the two
metals as a standard a thing to be desired.
Mr. HERRIES had listened with great attention to

the speeches of the Hon. Members for Callington (Att-
wood and Baring); and although he admitted their great
ability, he confessed he could not see that they had brought
forth any new facts, or elicited any new arguments. The
plain question, in his apprehension, to be found in the
whole case, rested on this—were they to have a double
standard? And were they to have that standard at such
a rate and proportion as it would be nearly impossible for
them to attain? That was the question, and he contended
that the impassibility formed a material portion of the
proposition.—(Hear, hear.) It was asserted that prior
to, and in the year 1797, gold and silver were a legal
tender. Without admitting that to be so—and he would
prove by and by that it was not so—it formed a material
portion of the argument, that relief was to be obtained
for the delitor by raising the depreciated rate of silver to
a level with that of gold, in the same manner as it was
said to have been before the year 1798. This was the
whole of the argument of the Hon. Member who spoke
last (Mr. Baring). That Hon. Member said there was a
difference between silver and gold to the extent of five per
cent. He (Mr. Herries) took no credit to himwlf when
be admitted that difference to exist in every country in the
world. It w is, indeed, a thing universally known, and
the subject Of numerous regulations. He would allow the
Hou. Member to tike the difference as five per cent.,
although he believed it not to he so much. What then
was the proposition ? To what extent did the Hon.
Member, who was as capable as any Member of that
House to follow a question of that kind through all its
bearings, what did he propose ? Why, to make silver
and gold an equally legal te:ider, although he declared in
the same breath that the difference between them was full
five per cent, He begt.eil to tell the Hon. Member that
such a proposition was never before heard of in that
House.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member had taken
the trouble to trace with care the proceedings of
our ancestors, and lie had explained the manner in
which they adjusted the difference between the pre-
cious metals. He had admitted the difficulty of doing
so with succes-. He knew that unless they adjusted

the proportions of the two with great nicety at al
times, the c:aantry must lose one of them, and ye
he now said, in opposition to the doctrine of Sir Isaac
Newton—indeed he derided all that—he sent it forth as
his opinion that such metals should be a legal tender, and
that the debtor should be allowed to pay in either of them
if he pleased. Now what would be the first effect of
such a system? The Hon. Member had admitted it with
great frankness, illogical it was, and he had declared the
effect to he an immediate reduction of five per cent. on all
claims, and that all creditors would obtain five per cent.
less by the tender in silver. That would be the result of
his plan, if lie could get over the difficulty of putting it in
execution. But what was that difficulty? Had the
Hon. Gentleman considered it? If they were to determine
on such a proceeding, it might require, perhaps, a month
to make it an act of the Legislature, but in two days the
announcement of their intention would be carried to the
remotest part of the kingdom, that every one who had a
debt of 100!. due to him would run a risk of losing 51. if
he waited for a month before he demanded it. What then
would be the consequence—what would become of the
Bank of England—of the country banks? Why there
was scarcely an individual in the kingdom able to p;iy all
demands on him on the instant. First come, first served,
would be the rule of the day, and the mere attempt to
change the standard with such a difference between the
metals, would produce ruin and confusion in every part of
the country. The Hon. Member (Mr. Baring) had con-
tended that they had the liberty to make payments in
silver, if they pleased, before 1788 ; and he desired to re-
turn to the old regulation. He (Mr. Herries) denied that
there was any such power to pay in silver, either by
weight or by tale.
Mr. BARING said, across the table, that they had such
a power ; and all he contended for was a revival of the
ancient system.
Mr. BERRIES contended that the law even then re-
strained the creditor from paying more than 251. in silver,
either by weight or tale.
Mr. ATT WOOD thought it necessary to set the Right
Hon. Gentleman right on this subject. By the law before
1798, silver was a legal tender up to 251. without weight,
and to any other extent afterwards with weight.
Mr. BERRIES begged the Hon. Member to perceive
that this regulation rendered it impracticable to make any
large payments an silver, because it was so deteriorated it
could not be tendered by weight ; and therefore the argu-
inent of the adoption of a double standard now being a
return to the system of 1798, was wholly inapplicable.—
After observing it was singular that this kind of double
standard, through the whole of the last century, never
affected the price of commodities, the Right Hon. Gentle-
man proceeded to say he was not one of those who held
apprehensions respecting the consequences of the adieu-
lion of silver as a standard. On the contrary lie con-
fessed that he thought if it could be rendered available
as a standard of value, it might produce many advan-
tages. He thought it possible, indeed, to accomplish
that object without 'much danger. It was an error to
suppose that silver and gold were taken as a double
standard in those countries which were held forth as
an example to England. The two metals were allowed to
circulate together, and she difference of value was settled
at particular times, and called ogio; but it was an error
to suppose that practically the two metals were taken as a
standard of value. If, then, he was called on to say what
regulation could he beneficially adopted in a country where
paper is already a legal trade, lie would say that some of
the d:fficulty might be got rid of by making silver a tender
for a moiety of a debt. So that if a d btor proposed to
pay one moiety in silver, the creditor might demand the
other moiety in a different standard. This was, however,
mere matter of speculation at present. The question they
had to consider was, whether it was expedient to relieve
the debate by depreciating the standard of value. The
Hon. Member for Callington (Baring), it was true, said
they would merely return to what they had before in
1798 ; but he was very much afraid that if they went the
length of mitigating the evil a little, it would not be long
before they would be compelled to do much more. When
the Hon. Member for Callington bad achieved his return
to the system of 1798, it would nut be long, be suspected,
till the -Hon. Member for Essex (Western) would return
to the charge. If, in the face of all experience, they were
to permit such a political relapse, they could not antici-
pate any thing but the return of that panic and national
distress which they had now so fortunately weathered, but
which had at one time threatened the destruction of all
public and private property. The only experiment they
had ever tried of an unlimited paper circulation, in con-
junction with a Bank Restriction Act, was between 1822
and 1826, and were they now prepared to run the hazard
of all the miseries and distresses to which that system had
exposed them ? The Hon. Gentleman had made some
mysterious allusions, as if he apprehended that there was
some improper understanding between Government and
the Bank of England with respect to the issue of paper.
But he could assure the lion. Gentleman that there was
no such improper understanding, and that he might dim-

miss his apprehensions on that point. Then ii!s tton.
Friend, who had just spoken, had taken a view of the
present condition of the country, which be (Mr.
(Terries), if he did not go quite so far as his
Honourable Friend, be still most sincerely hoped

was the true one. His Honourable Friend was
of opinion that, after having gone through and passed
all the evils which resulted from the circumstances to

which we had been exposed, we had safely lant'ed, and
were now standing on a solid footing. He (Mr. Herries)
trusted thit we w:re. But if so—if we were now stind-

ing on a solid footing, what inconceivable madness and
folly would it be to run the risk of a renewal of all the
evils through which we had passed, by the addition of any
new proposition ! The question of small note, which he
had expected would have formed a large part of the pre-
sent discussion, had, as if by universal consent, been dis-

carded by all the speakers of the evening. He might be
excused, therefore, for not entering into any argument on
that subject. All the objections which he entertained to
any alteration of the standard of currency, were equally
applicable to that mode of depreciating it. Ile would
say a few, and only a few words, on the advantages which
the Hon. Member who had moved the Resolutions sup-
posed would flow out of their adoption by the House. The
•

lion. Member seemed to think that it would increase rents

awl profits, and would be eminently beneficial to the poor
labourers. How that last purpose could be accomplished
by a measure, the avowed object of which was to iucrease
the price of commodities, was, he confessed, more than he
was able to understand. The mere nominal increase of

the value of wages could not enable the labourer to pur-
chase more wheat. In whatever point of view he con-

siderel the subject, be always came back to the conclu-
sion, that the only result of adopting the proposed resolu-
tions would be, to enable a man who owed money to pay

less than he owed. Denying, therefore, the justice of the
Hon. Gentleman's proposition, and denying its policy;
denying that it would extend relief to any one, and main-
taining that it would be hurtful to many, he mast give a
decided negative to the motion.
Lord HOWICK entirely concurred in most of tie po-
sition• of the Right Hon. Gentleman who had jnst spoken.
He entirely concurred in his opinion of the impolicy of
altering the existing standard. For these reasons, he could
not hesitate to vote against the Hon. Member's first reso-
lution. With respect to the second resolution, he must
say, that Le viewed with suspicion the project of a double
standard. But if the whole question were submitted to
the consideration of a Committee, he should have no ob-
jection to see that proposition included in it.
Mr. WARD said, that it was highly desirable that a
paper circulation should have a single basis; that it was
better it should have one basis than two bast s, and better
that it should have two than three. As to the one-pound

notes, he was not one of those who were particularly de-
lighted at their being withdrawn ; but if there were a
panic, he was persuaded that it would be worse with those
notes than without them. The former panic had not
arisen from the paper ; it had arisen from extensive spe-
culation ; some good, but some bad, and beyond all the
suggestions of prudence. That, with some little deprecia-
tion of the currency, had been the cause of all the evil.
To the double standard proposed in the second resolution
of the Hon. Gentleman, las strongly objected.
Mr. POULETT THOMPSON, though he greatly ad-
mired the speech of the Hen. Member for Callington, yet
he could not help thinking that the whole of it favoured
the very doctrine which he professed to oppose.
Sir E. KNATCHBULL said, the paper question was
one which very soon would come upon the House in a
manner which would preclude its being overlooked, and
the course which he therefore resolved to adopt was, to re-
serve himself for the early discussion of it, which lie bad
no doubt would come on next Session.

Mr. CUTLAR FERGUSSON thought it would be a
gnat security to the banking system to have silver a legal
tender as well as gold, but he should object to anything
which went to depreciate the currency of the country.
Mr. HUSKISSON said the House should pause before

it proceeded upon a voyage of experiment; the sea migh
at present be perfectly quiet, but they should look care-
fully around them before they incurred the risk of storms
and rocks. He confessed he thought it would be highly
desirable that no more than was necessary should be said
upon the subject of the currency ; and he hoped the time
was not far distant when it and the Catholic Question
should both be forgotten. Though he should oppose the
motion of the Hen. Member for Callington, yet he agreed
with some of his supporters that a sound paper currency
was amongst the most valuable of modern improvements;
and he wished to take that opportunity of intimating his
intention of moving for a Committee to inquire into the
whole of the banking system of the country; before any
renewal should be granted of the Charter of the Bank
of England. After expressing the fullest concurrence in
what fell from the Master of the Mint, he said that if
the House were to adopt the motion of the Hon. Member
for Callington, there would be the utmost alarm through-
out the country to-morrow morning, and before a week
there would be scarcely a sovereign in the country.
Lord MILTON was quite opposed to a double standard,
and would therefore vote against the resolutions.
Sir R. PEEL said the Hon. Member for Callington,
amidst the copious abuse which he poured forth upon the
measure which bore his (Sir R. Peel's) name, had done
more to settle the question that night than he had ever
done before, and that he effected by bringing forth a prac-
tical measure. And what did that practical measure
amount to, now that the House had it before them? Just
that he would, with a sum of 961., enable the debtor to
discharge a debt of 100/. ; but that if within a short time
the creditor were sufficiently prompt in recovering the
money, he might get the entire 1001. As to the other
Hon. Member for Callington, he could not help expressing
his surprise that he should desire to recur to a system in-
troduced by Sir Isaac Newton 112 years ago. They were
to take fur granted that the arrangement of Sir Isaac
Newton, in 1718, was correct; why, it was notorious that
saidtbhuo
tut
ihgf t theyt
gentlemanthat wtho
eurl
ed
:volt vote
s
efiotori:vtealtisieiirnnegcsooirinruetteihote.ns,Bioluu,etbelgaeeusnstt:lnedmtialeidy ; i
a
for these resolutions, it ought to be because lie wished
them tote carried ; if, indeed, this was a motion for inquiry,
he could understand Hon. Members voting for it on a
venture. The person who had suffered by the measure
of 1819, might have trusted to the solemn declarations of
Parliament since, and become a creditor, in which case
he would be visited by these resolutions under a new in-
fliction. Was there any justice in this? But it carried
with it its own refutation ; for as it could not come into
operation for a month, every creditor would avail himself
of the interval. He, for one, was sorry to hear that Hon.
Gentlemen were preparing to moot this question again next
Session ;—it was complained that we had altered the cur-
rency four times within the last thirty years, and much
mischief had been the consequence : surely, in that case,
there was an additional reason for fixing to the present
system, and thus giving it a fair trid. For his own part
he had much rather that the sovereign should be alloyed at
once, and so have the currency depreciated, than that the
resolutions of the Hon. Gentleman should be carried into
effect. With respect to a double standard, that appeared
to him to be nonsense : a double measure there might be,
but a double standard there could not be ; and if they took
silver for the standard, gold must be taken for the token,
as was the case in France at present. As far as he could
pledge himself to a fixed opinion, that opinion was in favour
of the present system. He would admit, for the sake of
argument, that a better system might have been adopted
in 1819 ; but the present had now existed for 10 years,
and no doubt engagements were entered into under its as-
surance, which would produce much ruin if the system
were altered. With respect to 11. notes, he did not see
the absurdity of their circulation existing in Scotland and
Ireland, and not being allowed in England. He wished
that the circulation in these countries could be converted
into gold ; but at all events he was clearly of opinion that
if the I/. note system was again admitted into England,
the consequence would be, the disappearance of the gold ;
and in the event of a panic, there would be a simultaneous
demand for gold without any to meet it. For these rea-
sons he should give his opposition to the first resolution of
the Hon. Gentleman, because he thought it manifianly un-
just ; and also to the second resolution, which, though not
unjust, would, in his opinion, be nugatory and useless.—
(Cries of Question.)
Mr. BARING and Sir R. Peer. mutually exp'.ained.
Sir R. VYVYAN supported the motion.
Mr. WARBURTON said, that if the first resolution of
the Hon. Gentleman was carried, the consequence would
be, that the gold circulation of the country would be ba-
nished ; and if the second resolution was adopted, the silver
circulation would also be banished ; so that the end of the
two resolutions would be, that the country would have
nothing but a paper circulation.—( Loud cries of Question.)
Mr. MAXWELL said the Hon. Gentleman, fur bring-
ing forward the motion, deserved the thanks of the country,
more especially as he was opposed by Whig and Tory alike—
by placemen, pensioners, half-pay officers, and younger
brothers.—(Cries of Question.)
Mr. ATTWOOD replied.
The resolutions were then negatived without a division.
FORGERY.

Sir R. PEEL moved the Order of the Day for the
‘econd reading of the Clause added to the Forgery Bill.
The Hon. Baronet took the opportunity of reading a letter
he had received from the six Bankers w►th whom he had
had a conference on the day when the Forgery Bill was
read a second time, stating that the assertion made in the

Muse of Commons, that two of those Pa hers had aban-
doned two prosecutions in eases of forgery, within a short
time, because they did not like to inflict the penalty of
death, was quite incorrect. These Bankers, one and all,
deny the statement made the other evening on the subjee;
by the Hon. Member for Knaresborough. He thought
that it was due to those gentlemen to make this declaration.
Mr. P. THOMSON said a fiw words expressing his
regret that the statement had been made.
Mr. F. BUXTON s lid, that the fact formerly st ttei
was true in substance though not as to time. The forgery
was practised on Shipman and Company, upholsterers. _r
There were many extenuating circumstances belonging to • •
the case. The forgery occurred in 1828, and he was sorry
it had been mentioned. 0;'
Sir H. PEEL—The question was, whether the parties
abandoned the prosecution from the dread of inflicting the
punishment of death ?
Mr. F. BUXTON had been informed on high authority, :;;:
that the substance of what he had stated was capable of
proof in every part, as stated by the Hen. Member for
Knaresborough, except the date.
After a few words from Mr. WARBURTON, Mr. Pou-
LETT THOMPSON, and Sir ROBERT PEEL, the clause was
then read a second time, and the Forgery Bill was passed.
The other Orders of the Day were then read, and the
House adjourned at Three o'clock.

~x

PARLIAMENTARY PAPER.

WELSH CIRCUITS.
Return of the Salaries, Emoluments, Charges, and Inc..-
dental Disbursements of the Justice of the Chester Cir-
cuit, the Chief Justice of the North Wales Circuit, and
the Justice of the Brecon Circuit.

I.
Return of the Salary, Emoluments, Charges, and Incidental
Disbursements of the Justice of the Chester Circuit.
SALARY, &C.

Salary £1,230• 0 0
rl'he Justice of the Chester Circuit] 00 0
Emoluments has no Emoluments.

CIIARGES, &C.
Deductions at the Treasury and Exchequer 18 8 0
Posting 7O 0 0
Household Expenses r The Chief Justice} 140 0 0
424 / ' pays two.thirds

254 II 0

£1,015 12 0
Since the death of the late Chief Justice, I have received the
Fees of that Office, which have amounted in the whole to the
sum of 2.171. 18s. and I have paid all the Houschcld Expenses of
the two la,t Circuits. T. JERVIt,
His Majesty's Justice of the Chester Circuit.
Old Palace Yard, May 31, 1630.

To the Right Hon. Sir Robert Peel, Bart Ac. &c.
FIR,—I have the honour to inform you that my Salary as Chief
Justice of the North Wales Circuit per annum i5...£1,150 U 0
Emoluments arising from lines and other Fees due
to me as Chief Justice amount to rather more, but
I state them at 5O 0 0

£1,200 0 0
The Charges and Disbursements incident to my Office
I estimate at, per annum £2OO 0 0
I have the honour to be, &c &c.
35, Bedford-row, May 29, 1030. JONATHAN RAINS.

To the Right Hon. Sir Robert Peel, Bart. &c. &c. &c.
SIR,—In compliance with your request, 1 have the honour of
transmitting to you a Return of my Salary, Emoluments, anti
incidental Disbursements, as Justice of the Brecon Circuit.
Salary. X 1,150 0 0
Emoluments (being 6d. on every Fine levied) between 2/. and 31.
Disbursements (including expenses incurred in •
'" .sc mot
travelling to and from the Circuit, and during
per annum.
my stay at each Circuit Town) between
I have the honour to be, &c. &c.
Temple, May 29, ISW. ROBERT MATHEW CASBERD.

FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE.

FRENCH PAPERS.
" MINISTRY OF WAR.
(PRIVATE AND CONFIDENTIAL.)

" In pursuance of the Royal Ordinance of the 16th
inst., which convokes the Electoral Colleges for the 22d
of next month, I invite you to inform, without delay, the
officers of all ranks in garrison or in quarters, in the divi-
sion which you command,' who shall qualify as electors,
that you are authorized to deliver to them directly fur-
loughs to go into the departments in which they have to
exercise their political rights.
" The duration of the furloughs which you will grant
them for this purpose must be calculated approximatively
according to the time which will be necessary for them to
make the j mrney, to be present at the operations of their
collcges, and to return to their posts. These furloughs
will not cause any diminution of the pay of the officers who
shall obtain them.

" The King expects from you on this occasion the
same proofs of attachment to his person and to his service
which you have given him on similar occasions. You have
already on several occasions explained to the military mert''
called to take a share in the elections, the nature Ala doll:.
extent of the duties which belong to their employments, /f
and how incompatible with those employments, any cones'
duct would be that might oppose the direction *deb his
Majesty has thought most suitable to the present circurn-
st .uces and situation of the kingdom. There is none of
them who should not comprehend, that if they are free as
to their votes, they have also obligations inseparable front
their situation ; that it is impossible to serve at once the
Government of the King and the Opposition, and that
honour, as well as duty, ;quires them to make a choice
between the two.

" You will have now to maints)n, by your instructions
and by your example, the same doctrines, and to employ,
in order to make them effectual, along with the force of
your personal conviction, the lawful means which the con—
fidence of his Majesty has put at your disposal. The views
which regulate the Government of the King are known
and may be loudly avowed ; they have no object but the
preservation of the rights of the throne, and the stability
of the institutions of which it is the fundamental basis.
They are a sure rule of conduct for every one who desires
frankly and honestly the maintenance of the monare'ty anti
of public liberty.
" I invite you, besides, to come to an understanding
with Messrs. les Prefets, who are specially charged to give
to the electorial operations that direction and that ensemble
which must secure their result.

" You will fake measures that the service may not
suffer from the absence of the officers called to the elec-
tions from their quarters or garrisons. I have the h 'flour
to be, &c.

" The President of the Council, charged ad interim
with the Portfolio of War,
(Signed) " Prince de POLIGNAC."

The Papers of Sunday contain no news of the Algerine
expedition. The Moniteur says that none have been
received.

The following details appear in the Courrier des Tri-
bunaux. The Gazette de France treats the account as
an absurdity :
" ORLEANS, JUNE 3.—The Royal Court is new as-
sembled to deliberate on an affair which had been first
carried before the m tgistrates of Pitbeviers, and is nothing
less than a grand conspiracy against the Government. A
man tolerably well dressed had attracted the notice of the
gendarmes, and had rather sought to draw their attention
than to avoid them. On searching hiss, some papers
were discovered on his person, containing a plan of a con-
spiracy against the state, written in pencil, with a list of
conspirators, amongst whom are Lafayette, De Cases, d°
Chateaubriand, &c. The crown to be offered to the branch
of Orleans or to the Duke of Reiahstad►.

- -
" The Royal Court has ordered one of its members to
take the depositions in this important case."

The Covent-Garden Management, it has been
announced by Mr. C. KIMBLE, are already prepared,
from the prosperity of the Theatre, to pay off all loams
advanced to enable them to commence the present season.
Mr. Kitstistia has thus most honourably redeemed the
pledge he gave upon this subject.
COURT OF KINGS BENCH.--JONES ','t7.
Humit.—This was an action for a breach of promise of
marriage, which came on yesterday in this Court, before
Lord TENTERDEN and a Common Jury. The plaintiff,
Miss./ONES, was upwards of thirty years of age, and the
defendant, 11r. Hustrc, on the awkward side of sixty,
The Jury returned a verdict for the plaintiff, damages 1501.

Mrs. SADLER, formerly housekeeper to the
noble family of Powls, died worth 10,0001., 8,000/. of
which, it is said, she banded over to a young woman, s
stranger, to save legacy duty. The remainder was left to
a person in this town and other individuals.—Shrewsburg
Chronicle.

Were a GAY to be found among our living
poets, his " Trivia" might receive a curious accession from
a nocturnal squabble between a great Law Lord and hie
meek cara sposa, which has been much talked of in c,er-
tain circles for some days past.—:Morning Paper.
CONFESSION OF MURDER.—Our readers
may recollect that, some years ago, a woman of the name
of MARGARET SHUTTLEWOKTH was tried in Perth, for the
murder of her husband. She was convicted entirely upos
circumstantial evidence, and executed at Montrose, after
being respited for two weeks. She maintained her inno-
cence to the last—even when standing on the drop! We
have beard the contents of a private letter which
arrived from England last week, which states that a min,'
who has just now been executed in England, confessed,-
upon the scaffold, that be was the sole murderer of Kali"
-GARET SIIUTTLEWORTH'S husband.—Desndee Advertiser.

Per call: R
Mr Cent.,
11:knk Y. Anc
Ditto s ear
Ditto 36 year
tjttliit stock
Faterts OF
Austtiatk Boi
ttrazttian Bo
it-nos Ayri
I.liliatt Boni
Colombian I
Ditto, 1624
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Ditto 'B•2 .

PRICE

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Ditto, at ail
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Paris, 3 da,
Ditto
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Madrid
Cadiz
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Barcelona
Seville
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1 Dubl
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HIGH
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