The Sun.
London, England, 1839-03-04 00:00:00

be better to wait until they had a full knowledge of
what had taken place before they took any further
steps.

Mr. SMITH O'BRIEN wished to ask whether any
measure had been adopted by the Government for the
purpose of procuring any indemnity for the Mexican
pilot. If such a measure had not been adopted he
would take occasion to call the attention of the House
to the subject, and he hoped the House would then ex-
press its feeling with regard to the outrage that had
been committed against the national flag.
The SPEAKER begged to remind the Hon. Mem-
ber, that he was accompanying his question with an
argument.

Lord INGESTRIE inquired whether there wns any
objection to lay the letter of Lieutenant Croke before
tha House ?

Mr. C. 'WOOD did object to laying any paper on
the table of the House, until the transaction was in a
more forward state. than at present, and he thouit
the mode in which Hon. Gent!amen had proceeded with
regard to this subject was not one becoming the dignity
of the House.—(lronical cheers from the Opposition
Benches.)
Mr. GOULBURN rose to order. The Speaker
had been just kind enough to say questions were nat
to be put argumentatively, and he thought answers
ought to come within the same rule—(Hear, hear)—
otherwise an undue advantage was given to one side
of the House over the other.

Captain PEC HELL wished to put a question to the
Noble Lord, the Secretary for the Home Department,
which he hoped would not be considered beneath the
dignity of the House.—(Hear.) This subject had created
great excitement—he did not wish to mix it up wi,ll
the question between our Government and France.
but he wanted to know whether the Noble Lord in-
tended, as soon as he obtained the information which he
said he was not in possession of, to lay all the papers
before the House ; and whether he could produce the
log-book or journal of the Express packet for the tine
she lay at Vera Cruz.—(Hear, hear.) He had endea-
voured to put the question in as distinct a manner as
possible, and he believed there was no differance of
opinion among naval officers on this subject.—(Hear,
hear.)
Lord J. RUSSELL said that would be a question
for consideration when the intelligence arrived.—(Hear,
hear.) It was impossible that the Government could
pledge itself before hand to produce any particular
papers, and, of course, on that particular question they
would take the opinion of the Board of Admiralty.—
(Hear.)

FACTORIES.
Mr. MARK PHILLIPS asked whether the Noble
Lord, the Secretary for the Home Department, would
consent to postpone the Factory Bill for a week?
Mr. F. MAULE said he would postpone the Bill
till Monday.
FACTORIES.—BREACH OF PRIVILEGE.
On Lord JOHN RUSSELL moving the order of
the day for a Committee of Supply,
Lord ASHLEY said he would avail himself
of that opportunity to call the attention of the
House to a subject affecting the privileges of the
House, and the character of some of its Members.
He had no authority lo speak in the name of any other
person—he spoke only with reference to himself.—
(Hear.) His name had been so frequently introduced
into the Factories Commissioners' Report, that it
would be impossible to allow it to pass unnoticed.
he was placed in a very painful position. It was I:11-
possible to avoid noticing this document, yet he had no
other way of doing so than by stepping between the
House and the important business of the evening. He
felt this very seriously, and was sorry that the neces-
sity of observing of such imputation compelled him to
trespass upon the Houso to a matter so personal. The
House would recollect that last Session a Committee
had been appointed to inquire into the operation and
management of factories in England, Scotland, and Ire-
land. That Committee reported their evidence to the
House, and since that time the inspectors of fac-
tories had made a report to the Home Department.
The report made by Mr. Stewart contained
charges affecting Membees of Parlisment in their con-
duct in committees, and likewise as Members of that
House, by commenting upon their speeches, and im-
puting to them veey grave offences. Now had these
allegations been made at any public meeting—
by any newspaper—or in any correspondence, he
(Lord A.) might have treated them with the
utmost possible contempt.—(Hear.) But when
he found that a Government officer made a report, in
the discharge of his duty under Act of Parliament, to
the Home Secretary, containing serious charges and
imputations upon Members of that House, and comment-
ing upon proceedings of that House, and bringing in a vast
deal of extraneous matter; and that this report was
adopted by the Home Secretary, and laid upon the
table of that House under his authority and sanction,
and that it was printed and circulated at the expense of
the country. He (Lord A.) thought the matter had
assumed such a serious aspect, that he was justified in
calling upon the Secretary for the Home Department to
maintain those charges or to withdraw them.--(Hear.)
That was an act purely voluntary on the part of the
Home Secretary. By the Act of Parliament the in.
spector was to make a report to the Secretary of State
for the Home Department ; but the Act of Parliamete
said nothing about the Noble Lord laying that report
on the table of the House. It also bound the inspec-
tor, and laid down the precise terms and character of
the report. For it said that he should
.report the
' state and working of the factories and mills,
and the children employed therein, and whether such
factories or mills were or were not conducted according
to the directions of that House and the laws of the
realm. No further was he to go. When, therefore,
the Noble Lord received a Report full of extraneous
matter, having nothing to do with the subject
in hand, and containing personal charges against
Members, who, for their conduct in the
Committee and in that House, he thought the Noble
Lord might have said to the Inspector that, not being a
report within the terms of the Act and beyond his
jurisdiction, that he migith withdraw it, and present one
more suited to the occasion. The Noble Lord, how-
ever, took no such course.—(Hear, hear.) He
adopted the report and the allegations it contained,
and laid every thing on the table of the House.
giving the sanction of his high special authority to it,
and causing it to be printed and circulated at the ex-
pense of the country. Now the portion to which he
wished to call the attention of the House was that con-
tained at page 53, and the report there stated that the
only legitimate object for which the Committee was ap-
pointed was to inquire into the proceedings of
any combinations of workmen or the employers
of workmen. An object altogether foreign to
the inquiry which had been instituted by the Com-
mittee. There, in the outset, the Committee was
charged with having violated the order of refereece for
purposes exclusively their own. In the came page he
found it stated that the intention of tne Committee to
institute such an investigation was in no way made
known to the factory owners—(Hear,)—that it was
incumbent on the Secretary of State to prove that the
Committee had no such intention. The Report e.1.,0
complained that no intimation had been male to him
as Inspector of Factories in the district, and it added
that the course followed by the Committee in concealieg
their intention to include in their inquiry infringemeets
on the Factory Act was the more liable to animadversion
because one of the Members, previously to the exami-
nation of three cotton spinners, had a private meeting,
and questioned them respecting the violation of the
Act in their factories. There the Committee was
charged with having designedly and sedulously con-
cealed their real objects, and in that proceeding that
they were liable to severe animadversions. That might
be a fair charge for the Noble Lord to make in his place,
but he asked whether it was within the jurisdiction of
an inspector of factories to comment upon the we-
ceedings of the Coriamittee in a public (Lenin/ et,
notwithstanding the - privileges of the House,
and to circulate that at the public expense.
Now, involved in that sentence, there was also a personal
charge, " It is more liable to animadversion, because
one of the Members of the Committee had previously a
meeting with the cotton spinners?' Would the Noble
Lord say who that was ?
Lord JOHN RUSSELL—I don't know,
Lord ASHLEY—There was the difficulty. The
Noble Lord threw on the table a charge against some
one ne did not know.—(Tory cheers.) There was
a personal charge against some one Member, which
the Neble Lord sanctioned by his authority, and
yet
he now said, that he had no notion of the person
against whom the charge was made.
Mr. O'CONNELL—It means me.—(Loud laughter
and cries of " Order.")
Lord ASHLEY—No doubt he Hon, and Learned
Member for Dublin was perfectly capable of defending
himself against any charge. There was another charge
against the Hon, and Learned Member for Dublin, in
which he (Lord Ashley) believed the Hon. Member
wishedwould
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answer which affected himself personally, not so much
for his conduct in the House as in .he Committee. It
stated that Messrs. Holden, Todd, and M`Nayat, three
master cotton-spinners, were selected by the master
spinners of Glasgow as the fittest persons to attend
before the Committee, yet there was not a single
question respecting the operation of the Factory Act
was put to Mr. Holden, or Mr. M'Naught, and that
when Mr. Todd, in answer to Lord Ashley's second
question, stated that he took no children under thirteen
years of age, his Lordship did not put another question.
Now just let him shew what was the state of the matter.
In the 552 d question, Lord Granville Somerset asks,
"How soon do you take children in to work ?" The answer
is," We do not take in any below the aye allowed by the
Act, thirteenyears old:' He (Lord A.) then threw in the .
question, "Do you take none under thirteen ?" The
answer was " none," and there it ended. Now, upon
that was brought a charge of some unfair dealing, the
whole scope of which he could not quite gather. He
perfectly f•ecoileet6d, when-the wifmass said be took 'rig
children under the age of thirteen, that he (Lord
Ashley) merely wished to ascertain this point. He