The Sun.
London, England, 1839-02-12 00:00:00

PRISON DISCIPLINE.

Lord J. RU SSELL then rose and said—l rise for the
purpose of asking leave to bring in several Bills with re-
spect to the administration of justice. The first Bill which
I shall ask leave to introduce, is a Bill for the better
ordering of prisons. I introduced a Bill on that subject
last year, vs bieli I propose at present to divide into two Bills.
It will not be necessary for me to enter upon any explana-
tion of that Bill, because, after a great deal of discussion,
the Bill passed this House with very little opposition ; but
it was thrown out on the second reading in the other
Ilouse of Parliament. If I were asked what reason induced
the other House to do so, I should only suppose that it arose
from some misconception as to the power given to the
Secretary of State by that Bill. It may have been ima-
gined that it was intended by that Bill to give the Secretary
of State the power of enforcing rules for the external dis-
cipline and separate confinement of prisoners. That
objection could only have arisen from some mis-
conception, and in order to make it still more
clear, I have altered the wording of the clause is
which tl:e p ewer is given to make those rules,
so as to make it appear that the power is only given to the
parties usually authorised to make those rules in order that
they may be submitted to the Secretary of State. Another
part of the 8.11 refers to the establishment of district prisons,
it being far more convenient that there should be a con-
tract between the Justices of the district, for the mainte-
nance of prisoners, and thereby avoiding the expense and
hiconverrience of sending them 30 or 40 miles. That part
of the Bill I propose to put in a separate Bill, and there-
fore, I now move for leave to bring in these two Bills.
—Leave was then given.
PETTY SESSSEONS AND COUNTY COURTS.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL—Sir, in introducing ano-
ther Bill with respect to Petty Sessions, and a Bill to re-
gulate County Courts, I wish to state very generally the
improvements I propose. It is a subject which on various
grounds has attracted the attention both of individuals,
Commissioners appointed by the Crown, and Com-
mittees by both Houses of Parliament. Every one
has felt, in the present state of the law, that there is
a great deal of unnecessary expense, unnecessary hard-
ship, and unnecessary delay in the usual practice
by which persons who are guilty of petty offences are sent
to prison, in order to be tried at the Quarter Ses4ons,
which do not take place far some time afterward:.
On this subject the County-rate Commissioners, after
discussing various propositions made to them, have
declared their decided opinion against giving summary
'urisdiction to Justices of the Peace with regard to cases
which are now termed felony, and they propose the
erection of separate Courts, with paid Advocates or
Judges, to decide on the offences. The Committee
of the House of Lords • which sat last year, after
examining several witnesses, decided that the pre-
sent system was exceedingly objectionable ; and that
it was advisable to give the Justices summary juris-
diction in cases of larceny. They stated if this was
confined to the youthful offender only, the whore be-
nefit would not be obtained ; they therefore pro-
pose that the Magistrates sitting in Petty Sessions
should have power and jurisdiction in cases of petty
larceny. A Committee of this House that sat last year on
the Police of the Metropolis, take a different • view of the
subject ; they think that it is advisable to give power of
summary jurisdiction, but they are of opinion, as it is a great
innovation, and as it deprives the subject in certain cases
of tho right of trial by jury, we should be very cautious how
we act, and only give to stipendary Magistrate. jurisdiction
who have professional experience on this subject. -.Thermic;
Sir, great reason for proposing some measure on this sulject-
in the first place, with regard to the law, after the Act in-
troduced by the Right Hon. Baronet, (Sir R. Peel),
there is no longer that ground for refusing summary juris-
diction in all cases, that formerly prevailed. The former
state of the law was very absurd, with regard to persons
cutting down live wood, or malicious trespass ; the only
proceeding adopted was not a criminal proceeding, but an
action as for the injury of real property, and part of
that law went so far as to say, that if a party had not
his title-deeds to the property, it could not be consi-
dered felony. The alteration in the law referred to applied
only to persons stealing under the value of a shilling ;
if it was wood that was taken, and if a man came and
cut it in the day-time and carried it off, the other
power of summary conviction then ceased, and the
party must be tried by a jury at the Quarter Ses-
sions. This, however, is not satisfactory. On the
other hand, it seems desirable in certain cases that this
mode of punishmept should be Adopted, but it is not just
that the offender should be kept in prison several weeks
before he is brought to trial ; and as this part of the law
seems to require some remedy, what I propose to do is this
—to give a power of summary conviction in those cases of
larceny, but limiting the justices in the punishment they
award to an imprisonment of six months at the most. I
propose to give this power of summary conviction in
the case of adults as well as of young offenders, but I also
propose to give the prisoner the benefit of an appeal,
in any one of the Courts which he shall prefer,
leasing it to the offender to choose if he prefer such a mode
of trial. I propose to make the same provision as that
introduced in Sir Robert Peel's Acts, and not that pro-
posed in the Committee of the House of Lords, as I
contemplate to give to the offender the power of choosing
by which mode of proceeding he wishes to be tried. In
making the change in petty sessions, I propose that there
should be much more regularity and form than at the pre-
sent time. Now, there were various fees to be paid to the
clerk, which is productive of a great want of unifor-
mity. I propose, therefore, that there should be a re-
gular:return made of those fees to the quarter sessions
so that atregular record should be kept of all that is done.
The two other Bills which I propose to introduce contain
the substance of the Bill which I introduced last year for
the better regul ition of local Courts. I have thought
it better that the subject et present should be divided into
two Bills—the first proposes to empower the Crown to
give a salary to a Judge, who shall decide upon small
debts in various parts of the country—the Bill will fix the
placers at which the Judges shall sit. My Learned Friend, the
Attorney-General has frequently pressed me on the subject,
and said that from the great number of these Courts of
Request—from the great number of Commissioners, who
are totally unacquainted with the law, much inconvenience
has arisen from the great went of uniformity in the decisions.
It is also much coneplained of that the Commissioners arc not
regular in their attendance. Such being the case, I am
in hopes that these measures will be looked upon, by the
country generally, as great improvements in the law.
I propose, also, that the fees now received by the
Clerk should be returned to the Justices in Quarter
Sessions ; that the Juitice3, in Quarter Sessions assem-
bled, should fix the salary of the Clerk ; and that, if the
fees should not pay such salary, that the balance be made
up by the country.' The other Bill which I propose to
introduce is with respect to the naming of a Chairman to
preside at the Quarter Sessions. The late changes
made by the Legislature in the criminal law, and
the taking away the punishment of death from
many offences, had greatly increased the labours as
well as extended the powers of Justices in Quar-
ter Sessions. I therefore think that it would
be proper to have a professional Chair man ap-
pointed by the Crown upon the nomination or recom-
meudation of the Justices. I propose by these Bills to make
the administration of justice more speedy. and therefore
more advantageous, and though they excite little interest in
this House—( Considerable noise prevailed in the House)--
they were of great interest to the great body of the people
at large.—( Cheers.) With respect to the former Bills
relative to existing prisons, a great deal has been said.
It still, however, is my opinion that the separate system
of confinement is the best that can be introduced. I beg
leave to give notice that it is my intention to propose, in
the present Session, a vote by which we shall be enabled
to build a prison in which to try the experiment. For my
own part, I hope that this experiment will be found to
succeed completely. I am aware that experiments have
been made in some of the prisons of the United Statee of
North America, and they furnish convincing facts to tiny
mind that the people of this country will not be satisfied
unlets something be done to bring the matter within the
reach of ourselves, in order that the results of these expe-
riments; tray be fully tested. I think the question still more
important, and I think it still more necessary to make this at-
tempt, when the subject of transportation has been so much
con sidered. I do not wish to hurry these measures through
the Ilouse ; I wish to give time for every consideration, and
I trust in tire end, whether carried in the shape I have
originally proposed them or not, thet considerable benefits
will accrue to the country from their adoption.
Leave was then given to bring in the several Bills.
Sir EDWARD liNATCUBULL begged to ask the
Noble Lord a question relative to certain county expenses
incurred previous to the passing of the Poor-law Amend-
ment Bill. The Noble Lord would know what he meant,
as lie had brought the subject under his notice last Session.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL'S answer was inaudible in the
gallery.
Sir J. Y. BULLER was glad to find that separate

Bills would be introduced, and that the Small Debts Bill
would not be included in the County Courts Bill, as,
in the event of the one being thrown out, the other
also ought to be lost. He thought there was
ene objectionable point in the Noble Lord's statement,
and that was, where they proposed to pay the Judges
out of the county-rates. Any attempt to put that on
the county.rate would be received very ill indeed, and
he hoped to be able to show the Noble Lord that it was
not necessary. lle begged to call the attention of the
House also to the position in which Honourable Members

having applications for private Bills would be placed by
the measure of the Noble Lord, because if that Bill were
passed, it would be useless to press the other separate mea-
sures upon the attention of the House.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said be was disposed to con-
sider what the lion. Member bad suggested.