The Sun.
London, England, 1830-02-18 00:00:00

HOUSES OF INDUSTRY.

Mr. GRATTAN moved for leave to bring in a
Bill to amend the Irish Act, 11 and 12 Geo. 111.,
respecting the establishment of Houses of Industry
in Ireland.

After a Tew observations from Lord L. GOWER,
leave was given to bring in the Bill.

CHARITABLE ESTABLISHMENTS OF IRELAND.
Mr. CALLAGHAN moved for a Return of the
different Charitable Establishments of Ireland. The
Hon. Member felt himself obliged to say that the
condition of the poor in the city which he repre-
sented was so appalling, that a delay of one day in
inquiring into the causes of the evil might be dan-
gerous to the peace of the community. He regretted
that so distant a day was fixed for the motion upon
the subject, particularly as it was not understood in
Ireland whether it were intended to introduce the
Poor Laws into that country.
Mr. S. RICE, in reply to the Hon. Gentleman,
must state that his motive for deferring his motion
was, because no relief granted to Ireland could
be complete without a previous inquiry into
the charitable institutions of that country. His
first object was to ascertain the actual state of
the poor of Ireland, which would not require any
laborious examination; particularly as papers upon
the subject had already been laid before the Emigra-
tion Committee in J 825. The second subject was
the Charities of Ireland, and the effect they had in
relieving distress. The third subject 'nos the question
of the Poor Laws. Many Gentlemen maintained the
expediency of Introducing the English PoorLawsinto
Ireland, but no person could think of doing this with-
out a full inquiry into the effect likely to be produced
by the measure upon the people of Ireland, and
into the mechanism necessary to carry the measure
into operation. Many gentlemen, who did not
think that the introduction of the Poor Laws in
Ireland would be beneficial to that country, were
of opinion that they ought to be introduced for the
sake of benefitting England, by the preventing of
Irish immigration, lie begged them to reflect
rchetlier it was not more probable that the measure
would have a decidedly opposite tendency. It would
be premature to argue the question at present. He
had stated that there were public charities in every
county of Ireland, and he could assert that in every
town of Munster there were houses of industry. He
had admitted that the distress of Ireland was less
than that of England, but still there was a distress
sufficiently great to need inquiry. He had received
a document from Ireland, in which the writer bad
said, that for the last 28 or 30 years he did not re-
eollect• any one period so replete with distress,. or

any one in 1\ ilit 11 11 retchedness had prevailed to such
extent. It was a question with the writer
a•bether the viii or eould pass without commotion.
Considerable improvements were going on through-
out Ireland; [nit !hough capital was augmenting,
the increase of population was greater.
Mr. M. FITZGER ALD rose, and spoke as fol-
lows :—I feel the impropriety of making any pre-
liminary observations; but I must say, that the do-
cument referred to by the Hon. Member for Limerick
does not in the least exaggerate the state of dis-
tress prevailing throughout the south of Ireland.
All those who depend upon the produce of butter
and cattle in that country, must be mainly affected
by the fall of prices in the English market. This
I believe to be the source of the distress, which,
however, I am far from wishing to underrate. I
have received from Ireland a description of this dis-
tress, and I will beg leave to read a quotation from
a country paper, which informs us that the Earl of
Kennard (whose agent, Mr. Galway, was the writer
in that paper) had ordered his agent to give employ-
ment to the poor, in consequence of the very severe
distress that prevailed ; and he fu,-Cier commanded,
that if employment could not be found for them in
that neighbourhood, they should be set to work
elsewhere, and at his expense. Mr. Galway had
carried his Lordship's intentions into full effect. I
must now acknowledge that great distress prevails
throughout the county of Kerry. Having been se•
lected as an object of the grossest falsehood, as to
what I uttered in this House, I have a right to jus-
tify myself upon this, which is the first convenient
opportunity that has offered. No public man can
perform his duty to his constituents, if he is to be
subject to such gross tnisrept esentations and slanders.
Gentlemen connected with Ireland will recollect,
that on the first night of the present Session I of-
fered a few words upon the state of Ireland, and I
stated explicitly that great distress prevailed
throughout that country. lam in the recollection
of every gentleman who then did me the honour to
attend to what I said, but I am reported to have stated
the reverse in every paper of London. This is the
case, whatever may be the intention of the writers;
but in the statements professing to convey to the
public a correct deliberate report of the language
held by Irish Members of Parliament, I am re-
ported to have denied, in tote, that any distress
whatever existed in Ireland. To render the case
more coarse, in the next number of the newspapers,
it was stated that Mr. Goulburn, Mr. Peel, Lord
L. Gower, and Mr. S. Rice, represented the dis-
tress in Ireland as only trifling, and to exist only in
parts. lam not aware that this language was held
by any Hon. Gentleman, but in an Irish newspaper
this is the language used about me—" Mr. M. Fitz-
gerald had the effrontery to say that there was no
distress in Ireland, and for which abominable and
flagitious mis-statement we pray Heaven that the
people of Kerry may kick him out:next election."—
(A laugh.)—lii any case of an abuse of character,
either private or public, I am sure that I am the
last person to complain. No gentleman in this
House regards more the publicity given to our pro-,
ceedings titan I do, or is more anxious that every
act of mine in this House should be known to my
constituents. I am always ready to abide the con-
sequences of my own conduct ; but whilst the pro-
ceedings of this House are reported with an accuracy
almost miraculous, I say that, in any thing profess-
ing to be a report of our language, or of the proceed-
ings of the House, it is unfair to insert so gross a
mis-statement as that of making me state the very
reverse of what I said. This is a a degree of license
which it cannot be the interest of this House
or of the country to allow to proceed. But no-
thing can be more dangerous than persons being
misrepresented to those for whom they sit in this
House. I stated that great distress prevailed in Ire-
land ; but at the same time I added, that I believed
the resources of Ireland would ultimately work
out great prosperity for that country; but, with
reference to the existing distress, nobody more un-
equivocally represented that distress to have existed.
The purpose of this mis-statement is to bring for-
ward the peasantry of my county in public meet-
ings, under the impression that their distress was
denied; and thus to exasperate them to a vehement
expression of their feelings. This is not the way
to cure the distresses. To what earthly motives
could be attributed my underrating the distress? I
appeal to the House if any :nan ever exceeded me
in the importunity with which I have uniformly
called the attention of Government to the state of
Ireland, and with which I have suggested practical
remedies to meet that distress ? This being my
conduct, I say again that it is most unfair to mis-
represent my conduct to my constituents. The
forms of the House afford me ample means of re-
dress for such gross misrepresentations ; but I am
the last person who, for the present object, would
be disposed to call for the aid of the authority of
this House. With respect to the actual fact of the
expressions I used, I appeal to every man that hears
me, and I am sure there is no gentleman in this
House more ready than the Honourable Member for
Clare to remove any erroneous impressions of this
sort.

Mr. PEEL participated in the indignation of the
Right Hon. Gentleman. Within the last six months,
of all the Representatives of Ireland not one had
evinced a more sincere desire to mitigate the cala-
mities under which any part of that country may be
labouring; and he had always represented that the
poor of Ireland were distressed for want of employ-
ment. The Right lion. Gentleman had submitted
to him projects for affording relief to Ireland, and
on which more labour must have been spent than
could be well imagined. He confirmed what the
Right Hon. Gentleman said, and it was impossible
to conceive so gross an inconsistency as the lan-
guage imputed to the Right Hon. Gentleman and
his suggestions to Government for the relief of
Ireland.

Mr. JEFFSON said, that the Mc6on should in-
clude the sums paid to Secret;lfies, for the Cha-
ritable Funds of Ireland were much diverted from
their purpose.

Mr. O'CONNELL certainly did understand the
Right Hon. Gentleman to have differed from him
in his statement of the distress in Ireland. He must
say, that no county sent to Parliament a Member
who had more entirely the confidence of all the coun-
try than the Right Hon. Gentleman. He had re-
ceived accounts from Ireland confirming the state-
ments he had made of the distress.

Lord L. GOWER said, that if any disturbance
arose in Ireland, he should deny that they were
caused by distress.

Mr. O. CALLAGHAN said he felt obliged to
the Hon. Member for Limerick for his explanation ;
and stated, that in speaking of the distress in the
city of Cork, he had no intention of referring to the
general question. He merely alluded to the pauper
population which crowded into the city from the
adjacent country.
The motion was then agreed to.
Lord W. POWLETT moved for leave-to bring
in a Bill to extend to the county palatine of Durham
the Act of Queen Anne, " for the better security of
rents, and to prevent frauds committed by tenants."
The Noble Lord also moved for a return of the quan-
tity of foreign lead ore imported into the United
Kingdom during the last five years.— Ordered.
Mr. WODEHOUSE moved that certain Re-
turns relating to Poor Rates and County Rates, in
the different counties of England and Wales, during
the years from 1823 to 1827, should be re-printed.—
Ordered.

SUPPLY.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
moved the Order of the Day for the House resolving
itself into a Committee of the whole House, to con-
sider the expediency of granting a further Supply
to his Majesty.
Mr. HUME, after stating that he was one of
those who had voted against granting any further
supply to his Majesty, until Ministers had given
some pledge that the distressed state of the country
would be taken into consideration, and promised
to come forward with some information on the sub-
ject, declared that since the Chancellor of the Ex-

chequer had stated that he would give that informa-
tion on Friday, he (Mr. Hume) did not feel himself
obliged to oppose the present motion.
The House then resolved itself into a Committee
of Supply.

2,500,0001. were then granted to the service of
his Majesty, to discharge the like supplies as in the
years from 1824 to 1829 inclusive.

25,438,800/. were next granted to discharge the
amount of such outstanding Exchequer-bills of the
years 1829 and 1830, as remained now unpro-
vided for.

168,8001. were next granted for the discharge of
Exchequer-bills, to defray the expence of public
work,, fisherie', and additional churches.

The House resumed, and the Report was then
brought up.

LOrd W. Powlett's Bill, for extending the provi-
v;ons of an Act of the Bth of Queen Anne, to the
County Palatine of Durham, was read a first time,
and ordered to be printed and read a second time on
Monday next.
The House then adjourned at a Quarter to Seven
o'clock.