The Sun.
London, England, 1839-07-12 00:00:00

' At a meeting of the To Council of the borough
of Manchester, held on Wednesday morning last, the
following business was transacted in reference to Mr.
Rowland Hill's plan of a universal penny postage.
Mr. Alderman TOOTAL said that the business of the
day being ended, he should beg leave to offer a few ob-
servations in reference to circumstances that had oc-
curred in Parliament during the week. Some time ago
he brought under the consideration of the Council Mr.
Rowland Hill's plan for a penny-postage, and on that
occasion he succeeded in obtaining a unanimous vote
in favour of petitioning Parliament for its adoption,
He was aware that by the bye-laws of the Council
no new matter could be brought forward for discus-
sion, nor any new motion submitted without a notice
of three days being previously given. He had looked at
the subject of penny postage, and he hardly thought that
it came under that head of their bye-laws. Howevershould
it unfortunately do so, he thought the circumstances of
the case a sufficient reason for their deviating, for once,
from their usual order, because notice had been given
by the Chancellor of the Exchequer that, on Friday
next, he would bring forward the penny postage plan,
and on that occasion would take the sense of the House
upon it. If, therefore, on the present occasion he were
debarred from submitting a resolution to that Council,
it would be perfectly useless to attempt it at any other
time (at least during the present session), inasmuch as
the present day was the last day that any resolution
for petitioning could be proposed, in order that the fact
of its having been proposed might be made known at
the time that the debate would come on.—(Hear.)
Perhaps it might have facilitated the progress of their
proceedings if the petition that had been last presented
from the Council were read. But understanding from
the Town Clerk, that the petition was not present, it
perhaps was not of so very much importance. It would
be fully in the recollection of members of the Council,
that the object of that petition was the adoption of Mr.
Hill's plan of a penny postage. His (Mr. Tootal's)
object now was to obtain a resolution from the Council
of the same purport, and for the same object. He had
read with very considerable attention the debates on
this subject in the House of Commons on Friday last.
The Chancellor of the Exchequer had declared his wish
and intention of carrying out the object proposed
by Mr. Hill, namely, that a universal rate of penny post-
age be adopted.—(Hear, hear, hear.) But to that reso-
lution he had attached another, which he considered
himself justified in attaching, and that was, that should
any deficiency arise in the Post-office revenue in conse-
quence of carrying out this plan, he should require a
pledge from the House of Commons that it would make
up any deficiency so arising. Now, Sir Robert Peel,
with perhaps his usual caution, said, " I am not pre-
pared to say that I am opposed to the plan Of tt univer-
sal penny postage, but 1 certainly will never be a
party to pledge the House of Commons to make up
any deficiency that may arise in consequence
of any measure to this effect being carried."
The Chancellor of the Exchequer, on the other hand,
said that without that pledge he should certainly not
go on with the Bill, but would withdraw it. It, there-
fore, seemed to him (Mr. Tootal) that at the present
moment the chance of carrying the penny postage into
full effect was in very great jeopardy ; and he also
thought it behoved every one of them to use all the
means in his power to get this plan carried into full effect.
He, therefore, hating taken part in the proceedings be-
fore, thought it his duty on that occasion to propose
that a petition should be sent from that Council embody-
ing the sentiments which he had endeavoured to explain.
He had a petition prepared, which the clerk would perhaps
be good enough to read. Before it was read he would
move the following resolution :—" That a petition be
presented by the Council to the House of Commons,
praying for the immediate adoption of the plan of
universal penny postage, devised by Mr. Rowland Hill,
and recommended by the Select Committee of the
House of Commons."

Mr. Alderman COBDEN had great pleasure in
seconding the motion. He certainly felt considerable
apprehension as to the success of this measure,
from the ominous tendency of the discussion the
other night. He really thought the character of
the House of Commons, and very much of the
confidence in future which the people would
place in the House of Commons, depended upon
their carrying this measure this Session. If they
did not accomplish this the country would ne-
cessarily be driven to ask what had the House of Com.
mons done this Session ? Every thing that had been
attempted had proved abortive. They had failed in
their measures for the better government of Canada
and Jamaica, as well as in their attempts to secure
national education. He believed the country gentry
were looking to this great measure as one that would
in some degree affect the reputation of Parliament
with every class of the community. It must be known
to many present that the American postmaster had
sent a man here for the express purpose of
making observations on the plan of Mr. Hill. The
French had also taken a peculiar interest in the
measure proposed. No measure, in fact existed, of a
practical nature, that had so much attracted the atten-
tion of the whole world, as Mr. Hill's plan of penny post-
age. If the Parliament refused to adopt that measure
it would show it not only to be behind the general in-
telligence of the people, but of the whole of the mercan-
tile world.—(Hear, hear.) If the country was gene-
rally alive to this new turn in the affair, he still had
hopes that the plan would be successful. The Cham-
ber of Commerce would meet on the following day
(Thursday) for the adoption of a similar petition, and
there was another in the town which he hoped would
be sent off on Thursday night. Whatever, therefore,
might be the success of the measure, he hoped the town
of Manchester would be still alive to its great importance.
Mr. HENRY NEWBERY said it gave him great plea-
sure to support the object which the gentlemen who
had moved and seconded the resolution had in view. He
was quite sure that this measure, properly considered,
would in many points of view be attended with results
more important to this country than any we had yet
experienced. Apart from every other consideration, if
they looked at it in a moral point of view, they must all
acknowledge how desirable it was to have laws that
would have the support of the intelligent and well-dis-
posed part of the community. But this was certainly
not the case with respect to postage, and he might fairly
state that if they were to hold conversation with 20 peo-
ple of a respectable class, that nineteen out of those
20 would openly avow that they had evaded it, and
that they felt no hesitation in evading it on all occa-
sions. Now could such a law, receiving so little sup-
port from the respectable and intelligent part of the
community be right and proper ? It appeared to him
that when they took into consideration the immense in-
crease of correspondence that the alteration would cause,
and, by the payment in advance, the saving of a great
deal of the machinery, that in a very short time the
revenue would be increased rather than diminished ;
and in reference to that he might state that from a re-
turn of the Post-office revenue for the last year, he
saw there was a decrease of nearly 8,0001. And he
thought that as railways were now increasing so much,
and they would afford so much greater facilities for
people sending letters in parcels from one part of the
country to another, that instead of the revenue of the
Post-office increasing, it would considerably diminish.—
(Hear, hear.)
The CHAIRMAN then put the motion, which was
carried unanimously.
Mr. NEWBERY then moved, " That the petition now
read be adopted, that the Common Seal of the Corpo-
ration be affixed thereto, that the same be sent to Mark
Phillips, Esq., for presentation to the House of Com-
mons, and that a copy thereof be sent to the Right
Hon. C. P. Thomson, and to the County Members, re-
questing their support thereof." He quite forgot be-
fore to mention a circumstance which would fully bear
out the statement he had made in reference to the
number of people who felt no hesitation in evading the
present postage. He believed that out of eighty-
one returns to the Chamber of Commerce, which
they had received from different firms, there
was only one individual or firm who did not say they
had evaded the present postage to a most enormous ex-
tent. In some instances they evaded it in 19 letters
out of 20 ; in others 15 out of 16, and he believed the
average was 6i ; that was, for every letter sent by the
post there were 6!; sent by other channels. 0 neho
only declared that they invariably sent all theirlettersuse
by post.
Alderman COBDEN said that he perfectly concurred
in the remarks of the preceding speaker, which lie
thought were much to the purpose, and entitled to
their consideration. It was very clear that when they
took into account the great and increased facilities
which the railroads afforded for the speedy transit of
goods, that thataccommodation might and would be made
available for sending letters in parcels, whereby the
Post-office revenue would suffer. It was now the prac-
tice of houses in Manchester, to send all their heavy
goods by railway, and there were few houses in an ex-
tensive line of business that sent their goods by boat.
Under these circumstances letters might be transmitted
from Manchester to London in a day. He believed the
charge of carriage was 3s. 6d. per 1001 b., and the number
that might be made up in a parcel of that weight would
be 1,600 lo I,7oo.—Therefore, if the penny postage
were adopted, the Post-office would be in the receipt of
money for letters which were now sent in parcels, for
as the railroad afforded the facilities, they might rest as-
sured that the practice of sending by parcels instead of
by Post, would become very general, and the revenue
would suffer by it.—(Hear and cheers.)
Mr. NILLETT seconded the resolution, observing that