The Sun.
London, England, 1863-02-06 00:00:00

King fit to rule them, and a permanent Government, they
will form a prosperous and successful State. (Heer, hear.)
Their ancestors were distinguished in every department of
intellectual power. They produced the first warriors, the
first statesmen, the first poets, the first orators, the first
painters and sculptors. I see no reason why the descen-
dants of those great men in the present day should not
follow in their steps. In the history of nations we find
that there is some influence at work, not easily to be ex-
plained, by which the people who inhabit a country con-
tinue notwithstanding diversions and changes of population
to exhibit the same qualities; and there is no cause why the
Greeks, when they get a good government, should not be-
come one of the most enlightened and distinguished nations
in Europe. (Hear, hear.) It is said that in giving up the
lonian Islands we are changing our policy, and we are told
that if we were bent on making a present of them it should
have been, of all the people in the world, to the Turks. (A
laugh.) That would certainly have been a singular way of
changing the distribution of population and the limits of
States. But I wish to say that we have not altered our po-
licy towards Turkey. We hope that under the present
Sultan Turkey will set her finances in order, and establish
a sound government and just laws, fairly administered to
all classes of the people. We trust that she will then be-
come strong both within and without. I certainly cannot
see how the union of the Septinsular Republic to Greece
can have any tendency to disturb the tranquillity of the
Ottoman empire. (Hear, hear.) There is one topic which
has been adverted to, and which is calculated to excite great
regret—l mean the statement made by various hon. mem-
bers from different parts of Ireland as to the distress which
they say prevails in parts of that country. There is no doubt
that Ireland has had three bad years; and no country can
endure that without suffering. My information, however,
does not go so far as some o the statements which have
been made to-night. I am told that the potatoes and oats
were not generally bad in Ireland last year. The people were
also able to save their turnips. The crops were certainly
shorter than the average, and doubtless there is a good deal
of pressure in many parts of the country. (Hear, hear.) I
think, however, that some of the assertions which have
been made are exaggerated, and, at all events, the appeal
which has been made for a grant of money for public works
would require to be supported by stronger evidence of its
necessity than we have yet received. It is impossible that
English members should not feel deeply for the miseries of
any portion of the inhabitants of the United Kingdom. We
sympathise as heartily with the sufferers in Ireland as with
those in Lancashire. There is, however, this distinction
between the two cases, that the misfortune in Ireland is due
to natural causes, such as the unfavourable nature of the
seasons ; while that in Lancashire is the result of human
eauses, which, however, are beyond our control and were
not to be expected. (Hear, hear.)
Sir G. BOWYER said the noble lord had expressed his
preference for the Government of the Sultan over the
Government of the Pope, she former being acknowledged
to be the most corrupt in the world. The Government of
the Pope was presided over by a Christian bishop, and yet
the Prime Minister of a Christian country said he preferred
a Mussulnsan government to one that was presided over by
a Christian. The noble lord had said that his Holiness bad
sent for Mr. Odo Russell to ask him if he could give him
an asylum in case the Pope should be compelled to leave
his dominions. That was an inaccurate statement of the
case. It was at variance with the statement of the French
minister. He (Sir G. Bowyer) would tell the noble lord
what really did occur. (Laughter.) Mr. Odo Russell was
not an accredited minister—he was not an ambassador, nor
minister plenipotentiary, nor charge d'affa res. He had
been the secretary to the legation at Florence, and was
allowed to reside at Rome for business purposes.
Sir G. GREY—He is attached to Turin.
Sir G. BOWYER—He doubtless was attached toTurinin
more senses than one. The interview that he had with the
Holy Father was purely a private one, and on taking leave
the Holy Father, as he had been talking about the muta-
bility of affairs, said, "Well, dear Mr. Russell, if ever t am
in trouble, 1 may perhaps ask you for your assistance." It
was merely a good natured observation, and had no politi-
cal meaning at all. "My dear Mr. Russell, perhaps, after
all, I may ask your assistance." The Pope said, of course,
that he did not intend to leave Rome., Subsequently, Mr
Odo Russell went back to the Pope and said to his Holi-
ness, " I have a communication from Lord Russell, and
when you leave Rome you will have an asylum at Malta,"
and he advised the Holy Father to leave Rome and go to
Malta before he was compelled to do so. This matter had
created a very ill feeling in France, as it was well calcu-
lated to do, seeing that it was an imputation that France
could not adequately provide for the Holy Father, The
noble lord had pronounced a warm eulogiurn upon the go-
vernment of Mazzini. Now, a more atrocious government
never existed than that. The clergy in Ramo were mur-
dered wholesale by that government s mply because they
were priests and ministers of religion. He could prove that
the government of Mazzini was the most atrocious that had
ever existed since the time of Robespierre. The noble lord
had said that the population of Rome were averse to the
Pope's government. He (Sir G.Bowyer) most emphatically
denied that. Tho Romans were in a much better position
than the inhabitants of the other parts of Italy. The former
were taxed not 1-10th part of their neighbours, and they
aid not suffer from the conscription, or the many other
grievances that were imposed upon the Neapolitans. In
Naples there were thousands of people in prison without
any trial; many of them without having even been in-
formed of the charge on which they had been arrested,
Several of those unfortunate prisoners were nearly naked
and covered with ulcers. Fourteen towns in Naples, num-
bering upwards of 39,000 inhabitants, had been destroyed
by the Piedmontese. The men that were called brigands
were people who were struggling against a foreign
dominion that was most galling and horrible to bear.
These were the results of the Piedmontese conquest
of Italy. This system of outrage and persecution was
carried on under the moral support given it by the noble
lord's Government. The state of things produced in Italy
under the influence of the noble lord's Government caused
that Government to be cursed by the population generally.
The noble lord's Government would be cursed eternally as
the destroyers of the civilisation and the rights s,f Italy.
(Laughter.) lion. members opposite laugh at what he
said because it was obvious that they knew nothing what-
ever of the subject. Their laugh was a laugh of ignorance.
(Renewed laur,,hter.) What was the past history of Rome ?
Look at the glorious days of the De Medici--
An bon. MEMBER—Look at the days of the Borgias.
(Hear, hear.)

Sir G. BOWYER—WeII, look at the days of .Borgia.
He knew there had been sometimes bad Governments in
Italy. He admitted there was one Burgia who was a
bad man ; but was that a reason why the glories of Flo-
rence and of Genoa—why the works of the greatest artists
and poets were to be ignored or destroyed ? What did the
hon. gentleman mean, then, by talking of Borgia ? (Hear,
hear.) If the French garrison were to be withdrawn from
Rome to-morrow, and the Piedruontese prevented from
marching into and taking possession of the country by force,
he believed that the Papal government would be as safe
and as stable as the Government of Queen Victoria. In the
Turin Chambers the other day the Government was at-
tacked for not baying given sufficient encouragement to the
revolutionary cause in Italy. Count Pepoli, while deny..
ing the charge, said that they should never have been able
to overturn the Government at Bologna but for the assist..
ance of King Victor Emmanuel from his purse. The
Minister had thus let out the secret of the revolutionary
movement.

Mr. WHALLEY here rose to order. He did not think
that the hon. baronet was justified in making a statement
of so grave a character affecting a foreign sovereign.
Sir G. BOWYER maintained that he was perfectly in
order in the course he had taken. He denied that Naples
was governed by the King of Sardinia, because the whole
nation almost was against him, and would never submit to
be governed by the Piedmontese. Florence and the other
countries which had been so violently brought under the
iron heel of Piedmont were thoroughly disgusted and dis-
contented with the existing state of things. He must
protest against the doctrine that what was called the
Liberal party in Italy were entitled to Rome as their
capital. They might with equal justice claim Constanti-
nople, because it was really the residence of the Emperors
Justinian and Constantine. Rome never was really the
capital of i taly—Rome was the mistress and conqueror of
Italy. if they overturned the throne of Rome upon such
pretences as those put forward, he would tell them that
there would be no throne in Europe safe. Such a claim to
ju
stice.
Mr. was an outrage upon civilisation and upon
Mr. S. FITZGERALD thought the noble lord's speech
remarkable for the dexterous way in which ho addressed
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which
was more than another important the Queen,ops Speech,
which above all others entered into the putlic mind of the
country at this present moment, it was the struggle going on
across the Atlantic; and yet the noble lord, notwithstanding
the vast injury which that struggle had inflicted on our cot •
ton district, was silent on
the topic. No one could read the
account of what was passing in America without the deepest
feelings of emotion and regret. It had formed the subject
of most important diplomatic communications with our
neighbour and ally, and although the noble lord and the
Government had taken, perhaps wisely, the gravest respon-
sibility in declining to accede to the proposel of the French
to mediate in the contest, the noble lord, addressing the
Commons of England for the first time this session, passed
over the American war, the proposal made to the Govern-
ment by the French Emperor, and rather addressed himself
in a light and jocular tone to other questions. H e altogether
omitted any reference whatever to this, which was almost
of paramount importance. Another omission from the
Speech was the subject of Poland. When revolutions were
going on in other parts of the world we found our Govern-
ment either taking them under their patronage or speaking
with commiseration and sympathy of the sufferings which
caused them, but when this subject of Poland was brought
for ward by the hon. member for King's County, instead of
sympathy with the Poles, the noble lord's speech was a
speech of apology for the Russian Government, not a word
of sympathy for the suffering Poles. There was a point of
misrepresentation which he thought should be set right ; he
meant with reference to the correspondence between the
noble lord and the Court of Denmark. After a
system of policy had been adopted by our Go-
vernment, suddenly, and without any reason what-
ever, that policy was changed to the very opposite,
and the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs in a few
lines traced a new constitution for Denmark. It having been
the policy of England to support the weak against the
strong, it being desirable and necessary for the peace of
Europe that a strong Scandinavian Government should be
formed, England was now taking a course which would
weaken Denmark to the greatest passible extent. Then
there was the cession of the lonian Islands. A policy more
impolitic, more inexpedient, more unjastifiable, more con-
trary to the interests of this country, and more fatal to the
peace of Europe, was never adopted by any Government
of any country than the proposed cession of the lonian
Islands. In 1814 the British Government made a repre-
sentation to Europe that six of the lonian Islands had come
into our possession by conquest, and the seventh by ces-
sion; that they were of great importance and value
to Europe, and on their position depended the tran-
quillity of the East; and the proposition of England was
that the. islands should be placed under the protectorate of
Austria. Ultimately, however, in 1815, the islands were
placed under the protectorate of England. He was not
fond of referring to " Hansard," because men might change
their opinions; but he could not avoid referring to a
speech of the Chancellor of the Exchequer 18 or 20 months
ago, on his return from Greece, to the effect that England
must look to the fulfilment of the obligations she had con-
tracted to Europe; that her protectorate was not to be
surrendered except to promote the peace of Europe.
(Hear, hear.) The question then was, not whether
the cession of the islands to Greece would be for the
benefit of Greece or in accordance with the wishes of
the inhabitants of the islands, but whether, looking to the
position of the islands, it was for interests
of Europe that
they should be surrendered by England, and to a people
without a government at all ? (Hear hear.) Both naval
and military authorities concurred with regard to the im-
portance of our retaining possession of these islands. The
stolen despatch of Sir J. Young showed the importanceof the lonian Islands in a military point of view. During
the Russian war a Russian frigate and two corvettes that
had been cruising in the Adriatic, rather than run the risk
of passing Corfu, were sold at Trieste, thecrews being taken
to St. Petersburgh' overland. (Hear.).
.The first Napoleon
regarded Corfu as the key of the Adriatic, and opistered