The Sun.
London, England, 1863-02-10 00:00:00

to discontinue the practice of appointing a select com-
mittee to prepare estimates of the charge of the disem-
bodied militia of Great Britain and Ireland; and that such
estimates be in future prepared on the responsibility of
Ministers of the Crown.
" 2. That an humble address be presented to her Majesty,
that she will lie graciously pleased to give directions that
estimates of the charge of the disembodied militia in Great
Britain and Ireland, to the 31st day of March, 1861, be
prepared, and laid before this house.
The object of the resolutions were to put the militia esti-
mates on the same footing as the army estimates, and they
could thus be presented in the same way to Parliament,
who could then pronounce its veto upon them like all the
other estimates. The preparation of the estimates for the
militia was placed under the management and control of a
select committee of that house, and annually a motion was
made by that select committee to prepare those estimates.
That system was introduced soon after the passing of the
act of 1757, and it had continued without any alteration to
the present day. When that peculiar mode of preparing
these estimates were introduced, those estimates were sub-
stantially prepared by the committee. When the change
which had afterwards taken place had occurred he was not
able to say, but certainly as long as he had been a member
of the house, and he believed from a date much earlier, it
had been the practice of the Executive Government to pre-
pare the militia estimates. Those estimateshad been brought
ready prepared to the committee. The committee generally
assented to them with little consideration, and, in fact, the
appointment of the committee had become a matter of form.

It was no longer a substantial exercise of power; and ho
had observed that, during the last session, the appointment
of that committee had given rise to a misunderstanding.
Some members of the house thought the Government had
been taking an unusual course in referring the question to
a committee, and the subject had given rise to a discus-
sion. Ho had stated, at the time, that if it met with
the general approbation of the house, he would propose
that the preparation of the militia estimates should
be put upon the same footing as the other army esti-
mates, and that the whole should be presented to the house
simultaneously. The estimates for the yeomanry, for the
volunteers, and for the embodied militia, were already in-
cluded in the army estimates ; and the resolution which he
proposed referred exclusively to the disembodied militia.
There was also annually a small vote for Jersey and Guern-
sey militia, which was included in the general army esti-
mates. For the purpose of the Appropriation Act, the
militia vote was included in the same category as the gene-
ral vote of the army. He wal not aware that any inconve-
nience arose from the present course. If any valid objection
were urged against the resolution, ho had no d?sire to press

it. But he believed it would be found more convenient that
the whole of thebcharges which he had named should be
laid simultaneously before Parliament. At present the
charge for the militia, which last year was £750,000, was
detached from the other military estimates. It was consi-
dered at the end of the session, at a time less convenient
for discussion, and in a manner throwing less responsibility
upon the executive Government than the general army esti-
mates. With that explanation, ho trusted the house would
pass the first resolution, He had placed the second resolu-
tion on the paper, in order that the house might see what
course he proposed to adopt; but he would only propose the
first now; the second he would postpone until the bringing
up of the report. The right hon. gentleman concluded by
moving the resolution : "That in the opinion of this house
it is expedient to discontinue the practice of appointing a
select committee to prepare estimates of the charge of the
disembodied militia of Great Britain and Ireland; and that
such estimates be in future prepared on the responsibility of
Ministers of the Crown."
Colonel DUNNE said the only objection to the resolution
was that it transferred the old constitutional power of the
house to the Crown, and converted the militia into a part of
the standing army.
Colonel GILPIN thought that if the resoluion was
adopted, and the vote for the militia came before ,the
house with the general army estimates, it would be impos-
sible to make any change in them, Whatever course the
right hon. gentleman ultimately adopted he trusted that
value would be got for the money.
Sir G. C. LEWIS said it was not intended to make any
change in the organieation of the militia, but only in the
mode of bringing the estimates under the consideration of
the house, the change he proposed to make would, he
thought, be beneficial to the public service. The estimates
would have to be discussed in committee of supply, and
would be under the control of that committee.

Sir 11. WILLO U GHBY did not see the value of the pro •
posed change. Estimates could hardly be said to be guides
to expenditure. Why was the militia expenditure omitted
from the general accounts ? If not altered, he should
bring the subject under the consideration of the house.

Sir G. C. LEWIS said the practice was to include the
cost of the embodied militia, but not the disembodied mi-
litia, in the army estimates. The latter ias charged in one
sum, and the details were kept at the War-office. lie
should h.tve no objection to furnish the details of the charge
for the diseMbodied militia. •
General PEEL did not object to the proposed change,
but he thought all that was required might be done under
the present system.
After a few words of further explanation from Sir G. C.
LEWIS,
Colonel DICKSON suggested a postponement of the re-
solutions for further consideration.
The resolutions were, however, then agreed to.

REGISTRATION OF BIaTHS AND DEATHS
(IRELAND).

Sir lt. PEEL moved for leave to introduce a bill for the
registration of births and deaths in Ireland. He com-
plained that at present Ireland, with a population of six
millions, had no such system of registration. Such a
measure was of the greatest importance to a country in
many points, and not the ;east so with regard to sanitary
measures, either with regard to populous towns or moun-
tainous districts, as tending to circumscribe disease and
mitigate its evils. The subject had excited great attention
in Ireland since last session. The Medical Association,
which met at Limerick in December last, passed a resolu-
tion in favour of such a registration, as likely to be produc •
tive of beneficial results, and deputations from the Royal
Medical Council of Ireland, the Statistical Society, and the
Social Science Association, had waited upon him in refer-
ence to the subject, and had favoured him with their views.
They were in favour of dispensary districts, for registration
districts, and a compulsory registration of births and deaths.
It was impossible to over estimate the value of these statis-
tics in England and Scotland, and he reminded the house
that this was a measure involving no party considerations.
Ireland was almost the only civilised country where such a
registration does not exist. The want of a measure of the
kind was severely felt by the poor in Ireland, and there
were numerous instances where parties were unable to ob •
tain the property of their relatives who died intestate abroad
from want of the necessary proof of relationship. He called
upon the house to co-operate with him and remedy that de-
fect. The English Act, notwithstanding the agitation that
took place, was passed in 1836, and the Scotch bill in 1854,
but not until after a twenty years' agitation. The right
hon. baronet then contras' ed the principles of the English
and Scotch Acts, observing that the latter was a more per-
fect and efficient measure than the English Act, and which
the Registrar-General for England wished to have adopted
in this country. In Scotland registration of births was
compulsory. In England it was permissive, and the result
was, that Scotland possessed a more perfect registration
than England. In the former country the six years' ave-
rage of births gave 347 in every 10,000, and in England
343 in every 10,000. Having detailed the other points of
difference, the right hon. baronet said the principal point
to be considered was the machinery to be adopted, the
size of the districts, and the cost. Last year he proposed a
similar measure. It had originally been proposed by the
noble lord the member for Cockermouth, and by it it was
proposed to make the constabulary the registrars, but it did
not meet with the approbation of the house; and he had
come to the conclusion, after further consideration of the
subject, that it would be unwise to place the extra duty of
registrars upon that body. (Hear, hear.) He believed it
would be impossible to pass a measure containing such a
provision, and he was convinced of the impossibility of its
efficient working in Ireland. (Hear, hear.) By the present
bill, it was proposed to make the poor-law unions, as in
England, the area for registration; the medical officers of
I the unions and the dispensary doctors to be the registrars,
and the clerks of unions the superintending registrars. The
average population of each registration district would be
7,400. There were 163 unions in Ireland, 718 dispensary
districts, and 777 dispensary doctors. 'I he registrar would
receive ls. upon each entry, and the superintending regis-
trar 2d ; while the expense of the scheme, which would be
covered by a sum of £116,000, was to be thrown upon the
rates. That was in accordance with the English plan. It
was proposed to raise the salary of the Registrar-General to
the amount of £l,OOO a year; in England the same officer
received £1,200 a year. Registration would be compulsory
in all cases, and in that way they avoided the principal blot
on the English system ; but the medical officers would not
be subjected to a penalty for the omission to register.
Lord NAAS could not congratulate his right hon. friend
on the machinery which he had selected for giving effect
to his proposal. Of all the schemes that had been brought
forward, that of throwing the work of registration into the
hands of the doctors was the very worst. (" Oh !" from
Dr. Brady.) At any rate, the selection of registrars ought
not to bo limited to the dispensary doctors.
Mr. BRA DY believed that, without the doctors, it
would be entirely impossible to carry out any system of
registration of births and deaths, and that none was so fit
as they to be entrusted with the work.
on having registrars.
would
.vil\nigAgGoljt Eof congratulated
have been po-
pularthe bill must be popular, azid it never policea as
the right
Th oon
b.
e useful baronet
con-
fided to the constabulary of luest
spoken, that the doctors
if the important duties ofr lraeugdi.srtraHtiooncohnacdurbrceedn
with
the hon. member who had J
were the right men to be em
would be well to leave a
cer
of guardians.
tapmlodyiesduhroaestwioroenug,liadsstrbtaeorset„ahtlelhepoduerugshponoinst
to be appointed, to the boards
r
sition to the bill, The taxpayers w
Mr. WMALION said it would be his duty to die
to pay £116,000 requited by the bill, would not get any
value fur their money unless thi bill were to incorporate
provisions for the registration of marriages. The real diffi-
culty in the registration of marriages was making it a penal
offence to celebrate mixed marriages. That act, which was
totally ttufit for the prefiout couttiry, Qug4l, to be repealed,