The Sun.
London, England, 1837-06-28 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY, ,JUNE 2 184.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

t10V,5,t OP LIOAIMOIVA',.ic.vH 27.
The SPEAKER took the aair at the usual hout.;

Several 'Members took the , -
BOLTON AND
s.orn STAN LEY moved the third reading of the Bolton
and Preston Railway Bill,
Lord SANDON was sorry that his duty would compel
him to oppose the third tt!atlibe ti t the bill: in the fiat
place the tiotilliailY had bech aipressly prohibited by the
tieelslan or the Standing Orders Committee from purchasing
the Lancaster Canal or the Lewes Tram-road, and yet
one of the clauses of the Bill provided that the Lan-
caster Canal and Lewes Tram-road were to be made
over to the use of the Company, in consideration of the sum
of 8,0001.—( Hear, hear.) Now, if that was no a fraud
upon the House and the public, he knew not what it was.
By the Report of the Committee which sat upon the Bill,
it appeared that the Bill before the House would establish
competition, along six miles of the line, with a Company
which was now about ready to .commence their opera-
tions. The feeling of the Committee appeared to be
strongly in favour of a junction of the interests of the two
lines. If the House allowed this Bill to pass, they would
establish a very bad precedent. For, by the evidence given
before the Committee, it appeared that in the estimates
which had been given in by the Comprny, amounting to an
expenditure of 380,000/., it was under-stated to the amount
of upwards of 90,000/. For these reasons, he trusted that
the parties connected with the Bill would withdraw it in the
present Session, when it might receive more consideration,
and be again presented in a better shape.—( Hear, hear.)
He would strongly impress upon the parties promoting
the Bill also the late period of the session. They could not
reasonably hope to carry it, opposed as it was. He was sorry
that he was obliged to oppose the Bill at its last stage,
but unfortunately he was not present on the further con-
sideration of the report. He moved that the Bill be read
a third time that day three months.
Lord STANLEY was aware that the Bill was pre-
sented under peculiar circumstances, which rendered it
liable to observation. He did not blame his Noble Friend
for coming so late with his opposition to the Bill, for he
believed he was not in the House at its former stages.
That delay, , however, had subjected the promoters of the
Bill to a very considerable expense, as, had the opposition
been entered before and been successful, they would have
been saved the expense of engrossing the Bill. He had
the honour of being Chairman of the Committee, which sat
twenty-four days, on ten only of which his Noble Friend
appeared to have been present—(Hear)—and he felt hound
to say, that he had never seen a Committee in his life
so firm and determined to sift every fact to the very last.
He felt bound, also, to inform the House, that they 14 the
unanimous concurrence of the Committee in every step they
had taken. He admitted to his Noble Friend that there were
many objections to the line, especially to the latter part,
which went near to an existing line of railroad. He admitted
that to the fullest extent ; but when his Noble Friend said
that there were differences of opinion in the Committee on
the subject, he must be allowed to say that there never was
a more unanimous feeling than upon this Bill. His Noble
Friend had talked about the Committee being favourable to
the Bill. Now he had never seen a Committee in the whole
course of his Parliamentary life who had sifted .with such
strictness the different provisions and clauses of any Bill.
The rival Company alone required 29,000/. a-year for
frontage, which would be had unless the House passed
the present Bill. He would tell the House plainly that this
was not the best line, but what were the objects of the parties
who opposed the present Bill? Why to throw it out altogether
for the present session and the next. He was in hopes that
some reasonable terms would have been come to between
the parties, but he was afraid that there was no chance of
that unless the present Bill was passed. It the Bill was
thrown out in consequence of the objections of his Noble
Friend, the towns of Preston and Bolton would have no
communication whatever with the North, and the Company
that was. at present in existence would remain in the enjoy-
ment of their monopoly. Under these circumstances, he
trusted that the House would agree to the third reading of
the Bill.
Mr. POTTER made a few observations, which were
inaudible in the gallery. We .understood the Hon. Mem-
ber to oppose the third reading.
Mr. WILSON PATTEN, although he had formerly
opposed the Bill, would now give his vote in Savour of
the third reading ; being convinced this was the only way
in which a communication could be established between
Bolton and Preston, and also being fully convinced of the
expediency of such a communication.
Mr. AINSWORTH was surprised that the Noble Lord
the Member for Liverpool should have taken that opportu-
nity of opposing the third reading of the Bill, not having
taken any objection to the proceedings of the Committee,
and not having objected to the Bill going through the Com-
mittee. It was said they had not money to carry on the
undertaking. The Noble Lord, the Member for Lancashire,
had properly stated that the expenses of a railway were never
so strictly scrutinized as the expcnces of the Preston and
Bolton line had been. But there was plenty of money
forthcoming, not upon any fictitious shares, for there was
not one fictitious share on the list, but the amount had been
subscribed by the inhabitants of Bolton and the neighbour-
hood, who were interested in this line, and an additional
80,000/. having been estimated, subscriptions were made to
meet that charge. Therefore lie thought he might fairly
appeal to the House to pass the measure, on the ground
that they had sufficient money to carry it into effect.
The Committee of this line had been desirous of coming
to terms with the North Union Railway, and they had made
propositions for that purpose, but which had been rejected.
If the House would support the Noble Lord in carrying
this Bill through Parliament, he was quite satisfied that
some arrangement might be made whereby they might
have a more direct communication with the north ; and
when he stated that the population of Bolton was from
90,000 to 100,000, he thought Hon. Members would con-
cur with him that they had a fair claim to call on the House
to sanction the line.
Lord SANDON said that as the House did not appear
willing to entertain his proposition, he would not press it.
The Noble Lord then withdrew his amendment, and the
Bill was read a third time and passed.
Messengers from the Lords appeared at the table, and
requested a Conference with the House of Commons at five
o'clock, in No. 5 Committee-room, on the subject of the
amendments made by the Commons to the amendments
made by the Lords on the Municipal Corporations Act
Amendment Bill.—Agreed to.
On the motion of Mr. CRA WFORD, Martin's Natu-
ralization Bill was read a third time and passed.
BLACKWALL RAILWAY.

41
181
151
118
161

The Hon. Member then presented a petition from cer-
tain subscribers of a deed executed in Oct. 1835, for
making a Railway from London to Blackwall, complaining
that the subscription contract then entered into had been
made use of in a recent application to Parliament, for an
extension of the lino to which the petitioners were no par-
ties. The petitioners prayed the House that the Bill in
its present state might not pass into law.
On the motion of Mr. PLUMPTRE Lord Clanmoris's
Estate Bill was read a second time and ordered to be corn
mitted.

4
240
01
001

121
35
100
101
231

13'
126
65
71

late Majesty meets with the sympathy of the House of
Commtiris) and that they lament with me the loss which
the tiAtidri has sastained, is bdriplatory•to my feelings, and

[ii a.ePoi•dantie with my ekpOtatiorit;
" It half 10 die tidy 'a ch lite Di tifeßefo:.: the libertirjsi
to promote the welfare, and to maintain undiininished the

ancient glory of my people.
" It is very gratifying to me to learn-that the House of
Commons will i.pply itself without delay to forward such
tititittstire4 til.vtl)l tint ittittif, tit ptistfititi6tilont wltlitiut Injury
to the public interest, and tti iii 3 d 9iit l tifEPHOtiti tot' the
public serrice as may be requisite for the welfare or the
United Kingdom. • " V.: ,11..'?
LONDON AND BRIGHTON RAILWAY.
Lord J. RUSSELL brought up the Report'of the mili-
tary engineer appointed by the Government to report as to
the best line of the Brighton-Railway. The Noble Lord
moved that the end of the Report which contained the opinion
of the engineer should be read, from which it appeared that
the engineer was in favour of the direct line of Railway.
Lord G. LENNOX moved that the Report be referred
to the Committee. Although he approved of Stevenson's
line he should, after the Report of the engineer, do all in
his power to promote the line approved of by the engineer,
to the passing of which in the present Session he trusted
that no impediments would be offered.
The SPEAKER thought that the motion of the Noble
Lord for referring the Report to the Committee ought not
to be made without notice. _

Mr. P. THOMSON thought the proper course would
be to have the Report printed, and to move that it should
be taken into consideration on an early day, say to-morrow.
Lord GEORGE LENNOX said that his only
anxiety was that the Bill should pass during the present
Session, which he was afraid could not take place if the
matter was delayed even for a single day.
POST-OFFICE.

On the motion of Lord JOHN RUSSELL for the
reading of the Order of the Day for proceeding with the
Bill for the abolition of the punishment of death in cases
of Forgery,
Mr. HUME wished to ask the Master of the Mint
whether it was the intention of the Post-office to carry into
effect the recommendation of the Commissioners respecting
Mr. Hill's plan with reference to the two-penny-post office?
Mr. L ABOUCHERE said it was evident that some
misapprehension was abroad upon the subject to which the
Hon. Member had referred. The Commissioners had con-
sidered the representations of Mr. Hill, but they had not
reported as yet to the Treasury upon the subject. He was,
however, in hopes that in the course of a few days the
Report would be laid on the table of the House.
There were certain parts of Mr. Hill's plans relative to the
introduction of stamped covers which he thought he might
safely say it Was the intention of the Commissioners to adopt.
FISHERIES.

Captain PECHEL L wished to ask the President of
the Board of Trade, whether it was the intention
of Government to make any arrangement with the
Government of Franee, for the purpose of preventing
the fishing-boats of France from trenching on the English
herring and mackerel fisheries. The failure of the macke-
rel fishery on the coast of Sussex, and which had caused
great loss to a number of his constituents, was to be attri-
buted to the practice of the French fishermen casting
their ground nets over the floating nets that were laid
by the Brighton fishermen. He wished, therefore, to have
an assurance from the President of the Board of Trade
that some arrangement should be entered into, as he (Cap-
tain Peehell) would have to go down to his constituents
very shortly, and they would expect him to. give them some
information on the subject.—( Hear, and laughter.)
Mr. P. THOMSON said the Government had been
endeavouring for some time past to effect an arrangement,
by which the question relating to the fisheries might be
satisfactorily settled.
PUNISHMENT FOR FORGERIES BILL.

On the Order of the Day being read for the further con-
sideration of the Report on the Punishment of Forgeries
Bill,
Lord J. RUSSELL moved an amendment to the se-
cond clause, the nature of which we could not hear.
Lord STANLEY, before the question was disposed of,
begged to know from the Noble Lord whether he had re-
ceived any information relative to the lamentable increase
in that description of crime that had taken place in the
manufacturing districts. There had been a growing feeling
against prosecutions altogether, the tendency having rather
been to recover the money than to press for a punishment
of the offence.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL had had no communication on
the subject with the manufacturing districts, but the results
of his inquiries in the metropolis were that forgeries had
not considerably increased, and that the effect of the pre-
sent measure would be to afford an increased security
against forgery. The Bill was then ordered to be en-
grossed, and to be read a third time on Friday next.
OFFENCES AGAINST THE PERSON.

Lord. JOHN RUSSELL moved the Order of the Day
for the further consideration of the Report of the Offences
against the Person Bill.
On clause 2 being read,
Mr. AGLIONBY said he had an amendment to
move, of which he had given notice, the object of
which was to separate these offences into two classes,
making all cases of murder punishable by death,
and all cases of attempts at murder subject to trans-
portation for periods to be fixed upon. The subject
had given rise to considerable discussion in the Committee,
and he for one did not disguise his opinion, that if the
punishment of death was to be continued on the Statute
book it ought to be limited to murders alone. He hoped his
Majesty's Government would have considered the question,
as upon the former occasion the punishment of death had
been carried by only a majority of one. He regretted that
his Hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, who had for many
years attended to the amendment of the criminal law, was
prevented from attending in his place by a severe domestic
calamity ; but as the proposition for continuing the punishment
of death in any cases, except actual murder, had been
carried merely by a majority of one, and as the opinion
out of doors was strongly against the proposition, he
had earnestly hoped that the Government would have
taken the question into its own hand as one not unworthy
its consideration. By this means they would get rid
of great difficulties and many legal technicalities. Unless
there was a very strong opinion expressed against it, it was
his intention to take the sense of the Committee upon that

point.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL objected to the amend-
ment. The clause objected to by the Hon. Member had
been framed upon the suggestion of one of the most emi-
nent Judges in the land. He trusted, therefore, that the
House would adopt it.
Mr. HUME was perfectly convinced that if prevention
of crime was the object, they had not arrived at so desir-
able an end by the course they had adopted. In other
countries the abolition of the punishment of death alto-
gether had tended greatly to the prevention of crime, and
ho (Mr. Hume) felt convinced that the time was not far dis-
tant when the punishment of death would be abolished
altogether.
Mr. GOULBURN thought that additional offences
should come under the operation of the Bill, and that an
individual who fired a gun with an intention to kill, al-
though the contents of it might not reach the person,ought
to be visited with the punishment of death.
After a short discussion, in which Mr. Aglionby, the
Attorney-General, Mr. Pease, and Mr. Hawes took part,
Mr. O'CONNELL moved as an amendment to clause 2,
that after the words " shall suffer death," be added, " or,
at the discretion of the Court, be transported, for the term
of his natural life, beyond the seas, or for a period of not
less than fifteen years."
Mr. SHAW opposed the amendment. He considered
that the effect of it, if adopted, would be to place the Judge
in a very painful situation, by calling on him, in all cases, to
exercise his discretion.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that the altera-
tion would still leave the exercise of mercy to tho Royal
prerogative. The Judges now recommended cases to par-
don or mitigation as they appeared to them to deserve.
Lord J. RUSSELL opposed the amendment.
The House then divided, when there appeared—

For the amendment 36
Against it 6O
Majority
The clause was then ordered to stand part of the Bill.
On clause 4 being proposed,
Sir J. G RAH AM said that, like the sth and 6th clauses,
the penalty for the crime committed would by their wording
bear the interpretation that the party, injured was to be the
party punished.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL thought the remark
of the Right Honourable Baronet was hypercritical, and
that the clauses was taken nearly verbatim from Lord Ellen -
borough's Act.
Clauses 5,6, and 7 were then agreed to.
The remaining clauses were then agreed to. The House
resumed, and the Bill, with the amendments, was reported.
ROBBERY—STEALING FROM THE PERSON.
On the motion of Lord J. RUSSELL, the House re-
solved itself into Committee on the further consideration of
the Report of the Robbery and Stealing from the Per-
son Bill.
Mr. AGLIONBY objected to the principle of the Bill.
Lord J. RUSSELL defended the measure.
The clauses were respectively agreed to, and the Bill,
with the amendments, reported to the House.
BURGLARY AND STEALING IN A DWELL-
ING-HOUSE.

On the motion of Lord J. RUSSELL the House again
resolved itself into Committee for the further consideration
of the Report of the Burglary and Stealing in a Dwelling-
house Bill.
Mr. AGLIONBY was opposed to the principle of

creating a compound capital offence out of two secondary

crimes.
After a few words from Lord J. Russell, Mr. Jervis, the
Attorney-General, Sir George Strickland, and Mr. Pease,
the several clauses of the Bill were agreed to.
the iiouge then resumed, and the Bill, with the amend-
ments, was repated,

PIRACY.
On the motion of Lord J. RUSSELL, the Vouga
went into Committee for the further consideration of the
Piracy Bill,
Thti bill, with the amendments, was then reported.
TRANSPORTATION FOR LIFE.
The Transportation for Life Bill was then further con-
sidered in Committee, on the motion of the Noble Lord,
and reported to the House.
PUNISHMENT OF DEATH.
The Punishment of Death Bill was postponed for further
consideration of the Report in Committee, at the suggestion
of Mr. JERVIS and Sir L. KNATCLIBULL, and the Chair-
man obtained leave to report progress, and sit again on
Monday.

SUGAR DUTIES.
On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EX-
CHEQUER, the House then resolred itself into Commit-
tee on the Sugar Duties Bill.
The Bill haying gone through the Committee, the House
resumed.

WILLS BILL.
The Order of the Day having boen moved for going into
Committee to consider the Report on the Wills Bill,
Sir R. INGLIS objected to certain parts of the Bill,
especially to that provision which subjected codicils to the
same forms of authentication as wills. Five-sevenths of the
wills proved at Doctors' Commons in 1829 were for pro-
perty under 3,0001., and he believed other years would
show a similar result. A vast number of those testamentary
papers were in the shape of codicils, which, as the law now
stood, did not require witnesses ; but, under the present
Bill, such documents would in future require to be wit-
nessed, and perhaps put the testator to great inconvenience,
or lead him to make no will at all. He looked upon the
Bill as calculated to lead to litigation and intricacy, and so
injurious did he consider it in its operations, if it should
come suddenly into use, that he should, if supported by the
House, either move its rejection altogether, or at least that
it should not come into operation until the Ist of January,
1839.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL almost despaired of sa-
tisfying the Hon. Baronet of the beneficial effects of the
Bill, although it had passed.the House of Lords with the
full concurrence of all the great legal authorities in that
House. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman then con-
tended that the Bill would tend to put an end to litigation
with regard to wills and every description of testamentary
papers, as by its provisions not only real but also personal
property could be transferred. After some few further ob-
servations in support of the measure, and especially of that
clause which provides that the signature to every will shall
have the attestation of two witnesses, the Learned Gentle-
man contended that the Bill ought to come into operation
as early as possible—at all events on the Ist of January,
1838, and hoped the House would consent to its passing
through Committee that night.
Mr. TOOKE said, notwithstanding his objections to
some of the details of the measure he still thought there
was sufficient good in it to justify the House in going into
Committee upon it.—(Hear.)
Dr. LUSH INGTON said that the Right Hon. Ba-
ronet the Member for Oxford was not practically aware of
the details of the Bill, or he could not but feel that it was
a measure in every way calculated to render very many
more wills valid than was unfortunately the case at the pre-
sent time, and more particularly so as regarded the lower
orders of society. He knew of no measure that was cal-
culated to confer greater benefits upon the country.
Sir R. INGLIS consented to withdraw his opposition to
the Bill goino. into Committee, stating that he should re-
serve it until the House came to the consideration of the
particular clauses to which his objections referred.
The House then went into Committee on the Bill.
Clauses from 1 to 6 inclusive were agreed to without op-

position.
On clause 7 being put,
Sir R. INGLIS moved as an amendment that it be
struck out of the Bill, or postponed ; but the exact terms
of the Right Hon. Baronet's amendment did not reach the
gallery.
The House then divided, when the numbers were—
For the clause
For the amendment 2
Majority —7B
The clause was, therefore, ordered to stand a part of the
Bill.

On clause 9, •
Sir R. INGLIS moved the following proviso .—" Pro-
vided alwa)s that any will or testamentary writing, for the
purpose of disposing of personal property, written wholly
by the-testator, anedated, either in the introduction or at
the close, or in any part thereof, and signed by him at the
foot thereof, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, with-
out the need of any acknowledgment before witnesses, or
any attestation thereto."
The Committee divided, when the numbers were—
Ayes
Noes
Majority
The clause was then agreed to, as were the subsequent
clauses.
The House having resumed, the Report was received.
The House then resolved itself into Committee on the
Excise Acts.