The Sun.
London, England, 1806-07-19 00:00:00

BARRACKS.

The SECRETARY at WARinoved that there be laid
before the House a Statement of all Sums received
by the late. Barrack-Master General for the Rent.of
Canteens and Sale of Dung.
Mr. ROBSON remarked that it had fallen to his
lot more than-once to move for, Papers, which, after
being refused to be granted one day, vere on the
following, or some subsequent day, moved for by
'Ministers. This he thought strange,. and wished
to know the reason of it, He 'also obje&ed to the

. „
hurl* with which the. Papers were sent off.to be
. printed, by which Ile was prevented from having an
opportunity of considering them,. and of preparing,
for a Motion which he meant to make on the t.lb-
,jeEt on Monday. was remarkable -that such Pa-
pers as that to :which he referred (the Second Re-
port of the Military Commissioners) were tie' er pre-
sented till within a few days of the rising of a Ses-
iion; by which means Members had no oppOrtnnity
. of knowing, what. they 'contained till- the following
Session.

After some farther observations the Motion was
agreed to.
Lord H. PETTY expressed a wish to know what
was to he the tenor of the Motion which the Hon.
Member had hinted at, as likely to be made by him
on Monday?
Mr. ROBSON said, his Motion would be for

more Papers relative to the peculations in.the Bar-
sack department. • He did not,• however, pledge
himself to bring it forward on Monday, if he could
hot have an opportunity of perusing the Papers al-
ready- before -the House;
The SECRETARY AT \VAR presented the Papers
which had been.ordered, on his Motion, to be pro-
duced. •

Mr. PAULL repeated the assertion made by him
on a former night, that Capt. Atkins, who' had been
e meritorious Officer; was' dismissed froth his em-
ployment in the Barrack Department without no-
tice, and without being heard, merely because' he
had exposed frauds
,Which were praelising_ on the
public.
The SECRETARY AT WAR, denied this statement,
and. said, that there were Papers on the Table which
would shew that Mr. Atkins had been heard in his
defence.
Mr. ROBSON observed, that there was one affidavit
to that effect and three to the contrary.
After some farther conversation, principally on
the point of Mr. Robson having inspeCtion of the
Papers before they were printed, • - •
The SPEAKER, on learning that the Paper hq
principally
,wanted was the Report of the Military
Commissioners, informed him that it had already
been ordered to be printed.
' Sir JOHN SINCLAIR brought up the Second Report
of the Committee on Broad Wheeled Waggons.=
Ordered to be printed.
Mr. P. MooRE moved for discharging part of an
Order_of 13th June last, for productinn of certain
Papers relative to India, and that certain other Pa-
pers be ordered to be produced.—Ordered. These
were immediately presented. ,

Lord HENRY- PETTY moved that humble Ad-
dresses bee-presented to His Majesty, praying that he
would be"graciously pleased to order the following
sums to be paid to the persons named in the diffe-
rent Resolutions, and that the House would make
good the same. • .
The, sum of 10001. to H. Alexander, Esq. -for his
services as Chairman of the Committee of Ways
and Means.

To Jeremiah Dyson, Esq. one of the Clerks of the
House, such a sum as with his fees should make up
the sum of muol.

To J. H. Ley, Esq.'another of the Cleiks of the
House, the cleat sum of 10001.

To J. Clementson, Esq. s a sum as, together
with the fees of his office, should amount to 5001.

That there be printed 1750 Copies of the Journals
of the House, and an Index thereto, under ihe care
of the said J. H. Ley, Esq.
That 3501.. be advanced to G. Whithatn, Esq. for
making an Index to the Votes of the House.

And that such conipensation as may be proper be
granted to the Clerks of Public Committees during
the present Session.
Addresses on each of these were ordered accord-
ingly, to be presented by such Members of the House
_ _

as were of His . Majesty's Most Honourable Privy'
Council.

PUBLIC CREDIT.

, .
Mr. JOHNSTONE,, having moved the Order of
the Day for resuming the debate on the. Public
'Credit, said, it would not be-necessary for him— to
trouble the House at any length on the subject.
The whole was so clear that it only required to be
looked at to be understood.' There wars little or no
difference between his view of it and that of the
Noble Lord opposite. In every.rnaterial, point they
agreed. There was only one thing which he could
pot forbear noticing, that•although it had been.said,
at the commencement of the War, that no addi-
tion would thereby bee tide to our debt, it had in-
creased 52 millions to four years. There Was ano-
ther circumstance Worthy of remark, that we had
borrowed the same sum within the last four years as
in the four years of War preceding. He concluded
by moving, That 'it appeared that our Debt, 'on
the Ist February, 1803, amounted to 567,800,9781.
Lord H. PETTY did not Objea to the statement
of the Hon. Gentle.man. He only begged it' to be
observes; how much more :expensive materials- for
carrying on war had become, and that the' War hid
taken a new charaaer. •

Mr. JOHNSTONE explained, that his surprise ra-
ther lay the other way, being Surpriied how little
the increase had been.

After a few words from Dr. LAWIIENC, on the

Motion of ford H. Psi, the farther debate was
adjourned till Monday.
On the Motion of sieARTMIR AVELLESLEY; cer-
tain other Papers relatift to Gude' were ordered to
be-laid bef6re the Houie.

A Message was received from the Lords, stating
that their Lordships had Agreed to the American
Intercourse, Militia Service, Volunteer Officers, and
a number of other public and private Bills.
_ _ _ _

On the Motion of Lord HENRY PETTY it was or-
dered, that the House, at its rising, do adjourn till
Monday.

INDIA BUDGETS,
On the Motion of Lord MORPETH, the Commit.

tee on the Indian Budget was resumed.
Mr. T. JONES thought that in the present con-
vulsed state of the Company's affairs the House
ought to be informed how the debt clairhed by Go-
vernment against the Company, and by the Com-
pany against Government aCtually stood.---When
-he was proceeding on this point,
Dr. LAWRENCE called him to order, that not
ling the•question before the House, which applied
solely to the last year's expenditure.
Mr. JONES maintained, he was in order, but
professed his willingness .to yield to the Learned
DoCtor, who was always so full of brevity.
Mr. PAULL agreed that the statement made by
the Noble Lord was the only fair one on the stsbjeEt
for the last' twenty-two years. But even in it there
were some mistakes. As, for instance, there was a
sum of 7,710,0001. which became due in the year
1807, instead of the year 1810, as the Noble Lerd's
statement made it. .Of course, the deficieocy for the
two last years amounted to about 6,000,0001.
Air. JONES asked if he .had a right to put a
questiod?
• Mr. HOBHOUSE said, he might pet any ques-
tion, but it would fest with the- person to whom' it
was put to answer it or not, as he was inclined.
Mr. TYRWHITT JONES hoped that he would
not be thought pertinacious, but he wished to be
allowed to make A few observations, as he stood
pledged in some degree to the House on this subjeCt.
He had ha 1801 stated that the debt of the Company
.was 20 millions. This ,had .now clearly turned out
to be the fait. He had then met with a great deal
of opprobrium, and was asked to have patience:—
He had had- patience, and the result was that the
Company, as had been stated by an Hon. Alderman
(Prinsep), 'was on the eve of-bankruptcy, and that
their debt was nearer 40 millions than 30; He was
therefore fully justified in what he had.saidi and the
persons at the India'Board, whether they were called
Comptrollers, or any thing else, would soon,, it ap-
peered, be only the assignees of bankrupts.
Mr. JOHNSTONE said that there was no dan-
ger of a bankruptcy. He-Would not'.enter upon the
particulars of the accompts, heWever,, as it was
"painful to-him to lodk at the situation of the Com-
pany. But that, situation was still
,not so gloomy
as it had been represented by the Honourable
tleman. As to the loans, he hoped the persons who
held themwould renew :their engagements, But
'he deprecated the • transferring them to this coun-
try, and warned the ,DireCtors pot to ask such a
thing of:Parliament, for the Minister of the dey
'would be strongly tempted to grasp at a share of the
patronage, which would be dangerous to the liberties
of this country. He begged the House to consider
what would be the consequence of a patronage over
etoeo;ooolesterling, in addition to what was already
possessed by the Government. Any inconVenience of
tradewas,better than that the Minister should acquire
such an extraordinary power. meant this as no
particular refleCtion, but Mentioned it as applying to
any Minister. As to the case Of Sir G. Barlow, his
opiniOn was unaltered: Even though what the Hon.
Gentleman (Paull) had said should be corre&, still his
observations were proper. Ministers had gratuit-
ously appointed him on the 26th of February, and
-removed him 14 days after.. Now why was he Sp-
pointed at all if it was in contemplation to remove
him so soon ? All the powers of Governor-General
would have remained with -him by devolution till
the appointment of a successor, except the power
of exercising the highest funelions of the office
without the consent of the Council—a power so ex-
traordinary, that it had never been exercised. The
charge,- therefore, remained in full force.
Sir ARTHUR WELLESLEY observed, that the
Loans which the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Paull). stated
would become-due in 1807, would, iii feet, not be
due till 1809-10. In the MalsraLa war, the ex-
pences had been great, but the services had also been
great, and in no instance was there so much service
at less expence. The Sinking - Fund in India had
had great efficacy in keeping dotvn 'the diseount on
the Government Securities, .and in enabling the
, .
Company to ootam Loans at a low.interest ;
fact they had of late obtaiped, them at 8 per cent.
Mr. pAuf,.4 observed, that they had not
• tamed them at less than 14 per cent. and accounted
for the. Hononiable General's mistake, by stating
that more than two-thirds of the Loans were made
at,LucknoW and Benares, and the security given_ on
the Calcutta rupees, which Were of a higher value.
He adverted to ,the Charter of the Company, and
contended that they were indebted-to Government
in the suns of five or six milhoes, :aid that Govern-7
went had a right to seize upon their buildings, plate,
&c. &c. for the debt. It was not to be supposed
that they were to have their Charter for nothing.
Sir A. WELLESLEY explained:
Mr. Alderman PRINgEI3 agreed with the Hon. Ge-
neral that the Sinking Fund lowered the rate of inte-
rest in India, but could go with him ne further.
Mr. GRANT observed, that as to the claini of the
590,004 a year from the Company, it was only to
be paid out of the surplus revenue:of the Company
at home, and the late Minister, who was sufficiently
desirous of finding out any resource that could assist
the supplies, was convinced, th e. under the circum-
stances of the case, the claim could not be siubstan-
•tiated. He admitted that the credit of the CoMpany
hed been improved 'in India; and that loans were
*wade 'at a lower rate of interest. But the reason
was,- that better security was given. Instead of
bonds hi India payable at a very late period, Mar-
quis. Wellesley had given sechrity in England. He
thought this, however; a very improper mode of
proceeding, as 'it subjected thesCompany to sudden
arid large demands, and besides, it was too .great a
power- to entrust to any Governor, who might use,
it as a recourse when he haa large views, to the
detriment of the Company. , The Govern"ibeat at
borne ought; indeed, to. restriel Governor-Ge_
peral on this pi,:ot, Aa"to saying that the Dirbetoa

had approved.of this because they ',PO silent, he
would'not enter upon this. -The {£2 bras, that they
had long endured ninny thing-sad-which they did not
approve. But he certainly was of opinion, that the
giving this soreof security ought nbt to tike formed into
a system. With regard to the exchange between
Lucknow and ,Calcutta; he was inclined to agree
with the Honourablee Gentleman—over the way
(Paull). The exchange between Madras, the seve,
ral Presidencies, and Calcutta, was very eltpensive ;
and what with that and the bonusses, Iris would
venture to say, that those loans were the most ex-
pensive ever made. With regard* to the Sinking
Fund, it was not of the nature of the Sinking
Fund in 'England, for instead of being composed of
the produce of the taxes: raised for the purpose of
supplying it, it was taken from the mass of the
money which would have gone in some other shape
to the discharge or diminution bf the debt, and
therefore be did not think it of much use. •
Mr. TYRWHITT JONES; Mr. PAULL, and Mr.
GRANT explained.
Mr. MARTIN commented on the constru&ion
of the AG by which the Company .held their
Charter, and said that it clearly appeared from it,
that when the Company were in straitened eircum,
stances the payment wat only suspended, and they
now were debtors to the public for six millions.
The only excuse must be their inability to pay, and
he hardly thought that this excuse would be re-
sorted to, as it would amount to a confesSion that
they had been insolvent ever since the year 1793.
lIUDDLSTONE excused the non attends
ance of some of the Dire&ors, on the ereitirid that they
had been this day engaged for nearly eight haurs.iu
very important business, But they knew that the
Honourable Gentleman over the way (Mr. Grant)
was to he here, and on the accuracy, of hiS states
ments the House and the country might confi-
dently rely. He then entered upon a statement
of the advantages derived by the -Country from
the commerce -of the East India Company, in
opposition to -what had been said, on a former
night by an Honourable' Alderman (Prinsep) op.-
posite to _ him.--,They exported woollen to the '
amount of 1,300,0001. at a heavy loss to them-
selves because it was a staple commodity, and thus
afforded employment tO 40,000 men in this Coun-
try. They were even si,ibje& to a penalty for this
,extensive benefit to the Country,, for though this
was a losing trade before, a' duty of fifty thousand
pounds had been imposed upon it, and yet it was
still continued. This they could not have done un's
less they had had the interests of the cobritry more
at heart than their own. In the 'exportation of this
single article thenthey afforded employment to4O,VQO
men, particularly in the Counties of Gloucester-and
Devon, the Dutchy of Cornwall, and the City of
Norwich, and paid 50,0001. annually Of dutyOpoti it.
In addition to t his the Company paid three millions
of duties for various articles into tl EzChen2Aer, and
maintained i 0,0.00 Seamen, and thus encouraged
that force on which the Country so much depended
for- its support. The Company' had besides assisted
in defending and enlarging our Dominions in India.:
their Ships had' defeated thsiSe of the Enemy at the
mouth of the Ganges,: they had defeated them in
1779 ; and at a later period it was we',l,knosvn
what they had dOne in the China Seas. The use-of
the Company was not, therefore, to, be judged of
.merely by the profit and l ss as far as regarded
themselves particularly: The Honourable Alderman
had said that the Thames ought to be made the
grand depot of Indian Commerce :. to which he had
but two objections, namely, that it was imprac-
ticable, and that it would not be wise, if it had beep
praelicahle.. It was the opinion of a late illustrious
person (Marquis Cornwallis), that we ought not to,
encourage the colonization of India from this CoUn-,
try.' If the Traie, howevet, was thrown open to
all, it would accelerate this event by at }east half a
century.
_The Commerce of the Company then he
looked upon vast editicesewbich had withstood
the rage of the elements, and sheltered and nou-
rished a great number of the most deserving ob.
jests, and was at once the friend and the child of
the State. But he by no means agreed with the
Noble Lord (Castlereagh) in the tAnSiNet: which be
had given to the Honourable Alderman. He des
nied that the deranged state of the Company's
Finances was owing to the Wars in India ; fOr out
of thirteen years, of War mentioned by the Noble
Lard, six bad been years. of Peace in India e and
during part of that time the debt, instead of in-
creasing had adually diminished. The deranged,
state of Finances he attributed to the late dreads
fill Wars, 'and a negleG of due economy ; and the
fruitful source of these was the system pursued by
the late Governor-General—not intentionally, but
from an error in judgmente—a system,of subsidiary
alliances that is bringing the Native Princes under
subjection to our Indian Government, and making f
the Company's Revenues appear greater than they
really • were, and increasing the expenditure upon
the strength of that fallacious appearance. But
the delusion was now over; and if the system of
the Marquis Cornwallis was agaid acted upon—
if we retraced our steps, he had no doubt the Finances
of the Company might be brought .to a state of
prosperity.

Mr. Alder Man PRINSEP brought forward a num.:
ber of collateral arguments and calculations in sup-
port of the statements which he had made on a
former, night..
Mr. LLIUDDLESTONE explained.

Lprd CASTLEREAGH, while he allowed that
the Capital of the East India Company was inade-
quate to the extent of their commercial enterpriZes,
yet contended that they were by no means in such
a calamitous situation as that described by the
,Hon.
Alderman. In support of his opinion he adduced the
•credit in which the East India Company was gene-
rally held—evinced by the value of their Stock in
this Country, and the estimation which their Paper
enjoyed in India.
Whenever a particular inquiry should be entered
into, he,was convinced that the result would shew
the flourishing state of their affairs. He repeated
his wish that d great part of the debt in. India
should be converted into European debt, and could
udt.,,,Onceive on what ground such a proposition
cuulS be opposed; and - he again urged the ad-
Tantage which would attend the negotiation of a
Loan for the Company .-by Government. One
I;lclia_ Budget was in arrear be trusted that it
\-',';uld be brought forward as early as possible in the
a. zt Session, and that His N.kkijesty's Ministers would

be explicit in declaring theirvieWs and intend° is an
the subject.
Dr. LAO BENCE exposed the fallacy of the Esti-
mates which- had been laid before the House, and
the flattering hopes that had been held out by th;
Noble Lord on the subject of Indian Afffirs When lie
was in Administration.

Mr. 3'. JONES 'contended, that had the Admla
nistration of India been properly conduCted, India
would doubtless, by this time, have contributed
considerably to the assistance of this Country, in-
stead of being in the state it now Nits. He con-
tended, that the Company Was in a state of insol-
vency, and Mainfained his opinion by a variety of
illustrations, which excited considerable merriment
in the House.

Lord CASTI,EREAGEI and Dr. LAWRENCE ex
plained,
After much farther discusglon, in which Mr. W.
Keene, Mr. Johnstone, Mr. Grant, Lord Morpeth,
and Mr. Alderman Prinsep participated, the Resolu-
tions were agreed to.
The House having been resumed, the Report was
ordered to be received on Monday.
A Message from the 'Lords declared their assent
to the Linen Drawback, the Bell Rock Lighthouse,
the London Port,, and the Masters in Chancery's
Bills, without any Amendment; and also their
Lordshipl assent to the Philanthropic Society, and
the. Bankrupt Regulation Bills, with several Amend-
ments, to which they desired the . concurrence of
that House. -

Accounts of the Salaries of several Public Officer;
were presented at the Bar.--Ordered to be printed,
and to lie on the Table.

Adjputp,ed at One o'Qocls till Monday next.

MAILS.
AAR.IVED-1 Dublin, 2 Water tbrd. DvE HAmburglx4
A Guttenburgn, t Dublin, z ‘Vi.it4rlni:d.

PRICE OP STOCKS
THUS DAY AT TWELVE o'cLoo4. -
Cms.ol4 - ~. •- -6; i Oinniqui -• . . 6i

rr HE SUN.

SOLEM QUIS DICEILE FALSUbT ALTURA'S'?

L 0 ND 0 N,

SATURDAY, JULY 19, 1 aQQ.

No Messenger has been sent, to France in con,
sequence of the late cornnninicatioz brought by
Mr. I.Nszi.tco,, nor.do we think that an answer
is likely to be dispatched so soon as the Public
might exped. We shall leave others to arise the
VgbAic, with reports and conjedures on thesubjea
of Peace, as we have little doubt that thelc,ine4
Speech on the Prorogation of Parliament will allude
to the pending Negotiation, and cot mlnicate
such information upon this important subjqa as 4
in,the present state ofthe business,, it m.ar be deem,
ed expedient to make 'known,

have been confirmed in our opinions re...specte
ing Expedition, by information tie-
rived from a quarter in which we place- yet./ great
Congdenee :---The check :he has met with is by
xiciTheans. of so important a kind as the. Anlerica.r4
Papers would lead' us: to helieve. We have reasala
to think that he has renewed his attempt 7ith a
much better prospea,. and that we shall hear of itq
complete success at no distant period,

THE general Attention, that has been excited by A
mysterious transadion, to. which we have often baci
occasion to advert, has, it is said, produced a deter,
minatkan that the matter shall at length be snbrnit-
ted to the public.; and though it may appear some,
What strange, we are confidently assured tlpt the
medium, of promulgation will be the 4.ondor; Gcs,
zette. If we are tightly informed, the cornmunica,
tion is to be limited to a simple statement that an
Inquiry has taken place, and to the result of tAi;t In,
quiry.

Mr. Fo; has in some degree retarded his recovery-
by his, solicitude to take part in such measures as.
his Colleagues wished to submit to his judgment.
But we that the account of his having had at%
interview with the Chairman of the East India corn
pony, and drupping asleep, is not authentic. His
Physicians have, it seems, interdided all intercourse
that is not absolutely newspry on account of essen-
tial business.

A Russian Courier embarked yesterday at noon for
Boulogne, with. Dispatches from the,. Russian Am-
bassador here to M. D'OtnsaiL.

3ron Jacom has at length received orders to
leave this Country. His furniture, &c. is now ship-
pincr, and he is expe&ed to take his departure about
the latter end of next week. •

The utmost dispatch is using to send off the Bi-
peditions immediately. While two companies of
'Artillery, the Staff Corps, the Foot Guards, 52d,
tied, and 88th Regiments, are embarking at Deal
and Ramsgate, the'4sth, 87th, and 95th Rgiments
embark at Portsmouth. The whole to rendezious
at Portsmouth or Plymouth.
His Royal Highness the DUKE 'of YORK, after
the Review of the Guards yesterday at Chatham,
dined with the whole of his Otffcers, and, with his
Aids-de-Camp, returned at a late hour last night to
his house in Portinan-square.
A Gentleman, who came passenger in the Packet
arrived a few days since from the Leeward Islands,
states,. that he saw a letter from JEROME BONA..
r,OtTE, direded to Miss PATERSON, at Baltimore,
brought to Barbadoes by an Amerian Vessel, which
fell in with the French Squadron off St. Helena on
the 3oth April, which is three d tys later than the
last accounts. The Gentleman is u ell known at ,
LLOYD'S.• Miss PATERSON is the fair AMer:CAI
whom JEROME 'married in • Philadelphia, but f
whom he has been separated •by the furcit auti in;i.u.-
enceof his brother NAroLtoN.