The Sun.
London, England, 1801-03-19 00:00:00

R

wisdom and all the qualities which tonstittite a
great Magistrate, it - was not,
,therefore, to he
taken for granted, that his .successor might not
he ethinent'alsb, and:Government utast° be taken
in an aggregate, as an - individual Government
was not an individual but a Corporation—it was
• . like the King; it never died. He liked to shew
as much indulgence as could be given with safety
to the people of Irelarid,..but. he did not altoge-
ther wish measures of that kind to .come from the
Opposition side ",of the House ; every thing of
i that quality ought at thii time to originate arid
• -emanate frOm Government, because, .at this time
the.people Of Ireland should be -taught to look
lip- to. Government . as . the source whence. to
expel indulgerities.. As to the idea of altering
this Bill from whit it was before; be opposed that ;
because. he thought it would. look 'as' if the Bill
. was something .which the. Legislature wished to
continue for a considerable, time, when in fats it
'was intended only. to be in force for three months,
and surely for so short a time it was not well to
' - amend it ;` When a person had but • three-months
to dwell in a -house, he did not think much about
'repairs; it was,better to take the thing as it was,
-and let it die 'away, instead of making i; appear
as a thing adopted by the Union Parliament as
a-measure of 'their. Own to. be .continued for an
indefinite , time. This reminded , him: of an oe_.
catterice which happened some time ago—He
wanted a job coach and hOrses,• he went to a
person -in the -habit of letting such articles, he
looked at all the coaches and the horses which were
to let, and
.fixt upon the very. worst among
them,-andlhe person who had them to let said
he was surprized at the choice he had made, and
said he had-many better ; on which the Hon.
Member said, he knew that very well ; but had
_ he chosen the best, they might pass for his own,
which he was desirous they should not, whereas
by chasing the worst; he Was. sure of obtaining
his desire in one particular, namely, of shewirt
at Once they were' a . job. ' He -es:included with
assenting to the Bill,' and .to the' Clause which
was now before the House, and dissented from
•
the Amendment of she-Hon. Gentleman.
Mr. FaENcH.-aaid a few words 'in -,explana-
' tion, as did also Mr. D. BROWN .
Mr. GREY observed, that the-Noble Lord op_
posite to him (Lord CASTLER E.Apti)• had laid a
treat deal of stress on' the inconvenience 'which,
he said, 'would result from Itdopring the Amend-
ment to enlarge the number to constitute a Court_
Martial,_ because it. would take so many out of
;he Military service; but the Noble Lord would
tecorldl,-- that not only ' were there abundant
numbers of Regblars -in Ireland,. but that • also
!here Vete Militia and Yeomanry Corps in abun.
dance • that there was hardly a village in Ire-
land which was not full of theM, .so that-there
would-tie n o:difficulty in fOrming•Coarti:Mar-
tial, without any injury whatever to the set-
,s.ice. ' .. , .
L 9rd CASTLE RE AGH said, that taking' all
the Yetnithiy 'ilia Other- Forces to Uthich -the'
lion. Gentleman alluded, -the difficulty 'would
by no means be done away. The measure pro-
-. --posed by iht-Hon, Gentleman, that of increasing
fie number to constitute a Court Martial, :could
Mr lit- adopted
,Orisistently with the safety of
Ireland. ‘ . . .
- 'Here the Question was put on the. Amendment
by Mr. GRE`li' and ,Strangers- were Or:
'drred -to withdraw.; during which, we under.:
'Stood,. the CoMmittee did not divide, but nega
ti-ied the Amendment,, and-adopted -the original
Clause'. When-Strangers were admitted, . .
'-ltin.- GREY was concluding the words .of an
Pinzentiment to one 'of the Clauses of, the • Bill,
ivihich related to the-Certificate of the:Lord Lieu-
tnant to Courts,Of Justice in certain cases. ‘
24 Dr. 4 A W KEN C E contended, that by making
the'Certificare of the Lord Lieutenant 'conclusive
tVidence, all responsibility was'
taken,raway e“.
4itely. - t-- ~ • . .- . r.
Lard C .4STL ER EAGIT, was of .art,,mri,iiseLy
' different opinion.;- and thought- that such a cir_
. cumstance- increased instetili -of dititii%ished the
. sesponsibility. of the' -Executive Government in
- ' this-iiisi: •- '- - ' 4 . .. : '.;-7 „ • -

: The Ante:anent was then put and negatived.
Mr. D ,IiVSPN adverted to what he had
throwmout on a- former occasion, when this Bill
.Was discussed, namely, that thOse who were to
.compose the Courts Martial to be held under the
.authority of this Bill, ought. to be of the age of
twenty-one. Under the. Mutiny Bill, the Noble.
..Lord who brought this measure forward, admit..
ted that Officers upon Courts Martial must be of
the age of seventeen. A. person should, proper-
ly speaking, be seventeen before he was an Offs-
.cer in the Army at all; but here there was no
,age stated.—The Noble Lord had neither, follow-
ed the model of the Common Law, nor the Mili-
tary Law of this Country in the framing of this
Bill, in that part of it which related to the Offi-
cell of Whomthe Courts Martial should be com-
posed. The number of them was Scven,'of whom
-four would be a majority, and capable of deciding,
it was:therefore essential that they should be of
full age-7---the whole seven should be of full age.
They might, as the Bill stood, be exceptionable as
witnesses 'in a cause in a Court of justice On ac-
count of their tender age, and certainly incompe-
tent as Jurors. I-k had then to ask.. the Committee
this quesrion—“ Will yoU put the lives of Men in-
-4o tilt hands ofChildren 1" It might happen that the
Whole .Seven of-these persons, thus authorised to
dispose of thelives o£Men, might be all Children ;
for, truth to .say, Children were 9fficers in the
Army and in the Yeomanry Corps. :Thus, in-
f nts were to decide upon questions of .the Life.
or ea - •tlitallreirftri-df lrefavrt--:--feveistive,los-
tour of the United Parliament he hoped that
would not be the case—it met. with no idea he
had of either. justice or Com Mon S.cns. He had
therefore framed. a Clauses-which, whatever Might
be 'the fate of it, would recorcl..!his,srntiments On
this occasion,. and he should c4#.ll(igr'.to prevail
on the ComMittve to aiiopt it, for, without adopt-
ing it, the Committee woula"uot do 'what he
thcitivlit •ought,to be done. Theie Officers whci
night.. ryettheitS4yre: tittoge of, ee yen t e.orty—wOuLa
not be at to manage. their owti concerns, in . the
civil affairi of life ;—ifithey were P-not fit to may

nag their own Vrivaid-!conettnii:Attsy, kr,,:tre;
surely, 119 t fit to sil_on the Ljves at Deaths cf
their Felfolk-creatures. 'Helci-not :add a

Word' to this statement of the'•,thirlg,:beeausene-
thing would' make: itetimee•forcibfe. He
moved a Clause as follows Provided Jilwayie
that, no person shall be.deemed qualified to sit d
any Court-Martial constituted under the atitho:
thy of this Aa, 'who shall not have attained the
age'of twenty-one years." , • '
The question was put, and the House diVided,
Poi-the litist: 17—Against it
Mr. WHITBREAD then proceeded"to ob-
serve, that as this Biltdowellood, there was no
limitation of punilhinent .; it took away all, law
uponthe subjed wherever it came into operation,
and therefore punishments unknown. to the Law
of 'this Land, 'and even abhorrent' Run:lenity
anti Civilization; might be infliaed under its
thority, not that-he believed any Lord Unite.?
want of 'lreland would ever' wish such a thing ;
but it was not .to ihe 'probabli will of an indivi-
dual„ be. he who he might, but to the 'power "Of
Individuals., that 'the House 'of Commons ought
to aired its attention. The Bill stated the pu-
nishment of Death] or otherwise, as such C9tirts.-
Martial fhoUld dired: under this Power a Court.:
Martial, instead of directing a man to be ex-
ecuted on the spot,- beyond which no punish-
ment ought to go, whatever be the crime,
might put • a - man 'to the -tortare, .. for • these
things had been done in the late-Rebellion ; And
they were not only iintliCated by insinuation, but
broadly-jastifitti by the first' Law Officer of the.
CrOwn in Ireland, in' a Speech delivered by him,
in the House of Lords, and afterwards published
under his authority, at least, as he understood
it, for it had been repeatedly taken and treated
in that charader, and never. disavowed. Under
these impressions, Mr. WHITBREAD said, 'he
could not do otherwise than propose a Clause
for the purpose of providing, " that nothing in
this ACit. should extend,. or be construed to ex,
tend, to empower any Court to be held under its
authority, to' inflid any punishment that was
not now, provided, either by. the Common or
Statute Law, and recognised now in the ordina-
ry procedure of our Courts of Justice."
Lord C ASTL I,?E AGH said, fie had occasion to
trouble' the Hotise so often,: that he could not offer
himselfWithohi.firsi asking 'for the indulgence of
the Committee. The Aniendinent now yroposed by
the Hon: Gentleman, had as little connexion with
the real spirit of the Bill now before the Corn-
mittee, as much of the speaking which had taken
place to-night had.- In -the first place, he_would
alledge again, what he had been, under the neces-
sity of alledging on former occasions, in answer
to unfounded insinuations, .tbat there never was
any thingelone under the -authority of the Aft,
of which the Bill before the Committee was oily
a continuance, Whicli 'Was not known-to the' Laws
of the .Reatin.—Nor could any punishment beine
flided under this Bill, of a.seVerer nature than
was already known 'to the Laws and, there-
fore, the objedions of the liOn. Gentle Man did
not, in sub,:artee, apply to the 'Bill ; anefthat
would make him resist this Motion, because it
conveyed an unhandsome insinuation against Go-
verment, as if something had been done, or
suspeCtect might -be 'done, Which the Law of
the Land would not justify, for which there
was- not the, least fotinditihn. But he •had ano-
ther. Motive now for chiming the attention df
the'. CoMmittee. Insinuations had been thrown
out, as if Torture, had been used in Ireland, under
the authority,. or with the approbation and con-
nivance of Government. It-had been stated; that
a'NOble -Lord, high in office,. had justified' such
pritaiees. The exalted character of Lord. CLAR
for I* was the Noble Lord alluded to, Was of it-
self a. refutation of that assertion; and an answer'
to any charge that could be . exhibited against,
him. But it the Committee would take the trou-
ble °hooking at the Speech alluded to, as ~delie-
vered liy., that Noble Lord,, they would 'see that
no part: of it warranted the commentary made
union it by tJte, Hon. Gentleman.—What was.the
history of. that Speech A Noble Lord, the Earl
of i\4o tita, made a. Motion in the House of Peers
in Ireland, and prefaced it by a Speech in which
he made, certain 'charges against the Executive
,Government, with having' employed means be-
pond the necessity of the case,' and . with bar-
barity ,in certain, instances'; and he moved
an Address to the Crown, for the purpoSe
of adopting certain conciliatory measuises, with
the discOntented.—What were the farts upon
that occasion ?—There was a Repoit of a :Come
mittee upon that 'occasion, whO had diligently
inquired into the circtimstances which made the
subjea of that Motion ; that Report, was now
upon the Table of the 'ouse of. Commons ; by
whieh,it appears -that in the summer` when this
debate took place, there was an organized. Rebel-
lion inireland, particulaily.iri Ulster, Where the
Rebels had sworn to co-operate with the French,
,and wholly overturn the G overnment of that Coun-
try, and cad a total separation of Greatel3ri ta in and
Ireland; and it appeared that nothing but the mea-
sures which were then adopted,prevented that in-
tention from being carried into effect. It appeared
also by the same Report of the same Committee,
that the Provisional Committee of. Ulster, as, they
Called themselves, the ltehels 'sat on the same day
that the Noble Earl made his speech and moved
for conciliatory measures ; the Rebels .had
de'clated that nothing but a Republic and
a OW separation from England would satisfy
them; and to the honour of that Noble Earl,
the Rebels declared, that' notwithstanding his
Speech, he was at heart as great a Tyrant as Lord
ELAR E, or any other person belonging to tilts Go-
vernment of Ireland, only he -was a little more
Cunning, The ,Lord ,Chancellor of Ireland -an-
swered the Speech of.the Earl of MOIR A upon
that occasion ; •he visited to examine into fads
upon it,.,which produced' among others, that of a
search' for Arrive hidden by the Rebels ; and, if
in the course (of such a search any iediViduals' had
..departed a little from the ordinary course of pro-
ceeding, it would notehave been matter of won-
der, •foretheseaech tolc effeEtual might, perhaps,
have made that unavoidable • therefore, if two or
three cases of• excess' occurred, he presumed that

'

watilci. not-be eirei* surtitlittig to.t6 Committee
he had notes' the ho cur of addressing: But did she
Noble and te-arned Lord whOse Speech.tuidrjnen
alludedTto justify-...T.orture to prodnee ?
No, the reverse arose out of d argument of that
Noble and .3 earned Lard. What did LOrd
Ci..4..R5, say on that oeCasion ?, A peySorl of the
n;lrr.:. of
,Shaw :was ,c:herged with making pikes
for ,the;Rcbels,
e,114..was a blacksmith--he w'as
Lpprehended by Loyalists=:they Tut . a rope,
around his neck and they, threatened.him
I.[‘ Hear! Rear !" was vociferizied on the arber
CAsTL•ER E :vs; H desire'd Gentlemen .
• not to go, on so fast—Lhey put a .rope over a
beam anus what did they do I Did they strangle
him ? No ; and the 'Noble Lord in "that :Speech.
said, they did not effea their purpose. The
whole amounted then to this—these men threat-
-
ened, to strangle this blacksmith; with a view
of making hiM declare where the. pikes- :Were.
He was carried to. Downpatrick, and there a
Colonel of a Regiment, 'of his own Inthbrity,
certainly without a Court-Martial, -ordered the
man a certain punishine;nt. Whether that was
advisable or not, was a point to, Le considered
hereafter,,but there was certainly no Torture in'
it, for it was a summary punishment, not infliaed
to induce the man to confess, but to chastise him
fofKetime; at *least that was the view in which
it was inflided. :.Whether this ,was done by a
competent or inconipetent authoriry, was another
thing ; certainly it was not infliaed in the way
of Torture, namely, in the way ofcompellincr. the '
man to confess, for that was the true character of
Torture, and he apprehended that the Honourable
Gentleman would'not dispute with him this de-
finition of Torture ; nor would the Honourable
G.eictlemari argue, that it was a prindiple-un-
known to our Law, that a man should,. after a
sentence was pronounced up On him, receive a
slighter punishment ' than
,others ra;ght haye met
with-for the same' otence, but that they had not
the same favourable circumstances 'to plead. in
their. behalf as he might have. Lord CLARE
said, on that occasion, that during the AMerican
War he had felt hiMself authorised to inflict pu-
nislunentieYen of death, without a Cour t-Nlartial ;
and he instanced the case of Colonel HAYNES, and
another Case in which the puniSlunent of death
had been inflifled.without a Court-Martial, and
my Lord CLARE -made a-• comparison between
th'me.twO'cises,• and that of ;this blacksmith:—
That •was the whole of the .substance, ora.that
head,
,of the Speech of Lord: CLARE, n hid
had been, so often alluded to and gutted;
as a ptOdf that.. he, being `- so 'considerable •••4
Member in the Government-of Ireland,, had in-
culpated,t4t Government in the charge of giv _
ihg countenance 'to- Torture. 'The Noble and
Learned Lord certainly admitted the fad, that
an order .was made,
.in a summary nianneti,, to
punish this man, but.was,that any piing like de-
fending the Pradice of Torture I—Nothing like
it, 'for the NOble and Learned Lord put it only
by way of coriyai lbw) with other cases, and so
far was he from sheaving any disposition to sup-
port Torture, that he lamented the very thing that
had happened. That was the *hole extent and the
fun-meaning of the Speech of Lord CLARE upon
that subject, and which had been so often spoted
as a proof that he had, declared himself an Ad-
vocate for .lortUre, whereas; the words had no
such inenning,, and if the Officer who ordered this
pUnishment on this blacksmith, afted hastily and
rashly, and that ~my Lord CLARE thought the
conduct of that Office; milder, as most undoubted-
ly it was, than that of the Officers in 'the Ameri-
can War—in short, if this ease ,was proved to
the full extent to' which the lbn. Gentleman
stated it, that would be so far from making out
a charge against the ExecutLve Government for
giving countenance. to ,a system 'of Tcirtirre, . that
it would' not prove that Government had tided
altogether unwisely or imprudently. The case
hat been much exaggerated in statement On more
occasions than one; but even with all its exag-
geration, it didnOt amount to any countenance of
Torture by His Majesty's Ministers ; nor did it
Support any_ charge whatever against Lord
CLARE ; for .by. that Speech, as he UnderStOod
it, that . Noble and Learned Lord did not ap-
prove of what Was done in the .case of this 'black.
smith as a regular proceeding, but stated, it
Was much less severe
,than other cases which
occurred in the• American War.—Here Lord
CASTLER'EAGH proceeded to state
.his dislike of
the system of corporal punishments . altogether,
and to.state that nothing- could justify them but,
the necessity of the case, for which they were in-
liided ; and then his Lordship passed from that
subjed to a recapitulation of the reasons why
certain 11,(1 of ctucaty had been exercised on the
*Rebels at one time in Ireland—lc arose from the
uppleheriilon On the part of the Loyal, that they
had no other means to proted themselvesin per-
son or in property. nut, the moment the I,ll,Tartial
LaW Bill (of which this only was the continuance
foe three months) passed, all apprehensions of
Loyal subsided instantly, and there ended
all these. acts of cruelty, for then they
.were
satisfied that ;they would be proteded by
Gwiernment, and had no more occasion. to
take protedion into their own hands; so that
this was a Bill to pievent cruelty, instead of being
a pleasure of tyranny ; not, was there any thing
in it that was hostile to, but, on the contrary, -it
was. intended to prciteel, the MuniCipal
rities. Having gone over this ground, his Lord..
ship,returned to the case as it stood upon the
declaration of Lord CLARE, so often referred to,
the whole of which he apprehended to amount to
this, and to no more..—that these Officers threat,.
ened to strangle this blacksmith, but that they
did not do so; that the. Noble and Learned Lord
did not approve of what was done. Headmitted
the fad, btit did not justify it: That there
-were cases, in modern; times, which were
much more, severe, and that the , evils arising
.Out of such crimes as this man 'had been
stated' to he guilty ofi were very great ;
from no pair of Which did it appear, that the
.Noble ,and Learned Lord was an advocate :for
cruel punishments. It was unnecessary for him
to.say,•hOw repugnant such a praaice ,was to the
natural temper of sthat Nobleman, and how in.

comiiatible such principles. and praet
the ligfitA of his undere.tandifig ; -.„
him, knew-that to be tli^ case. Hu'onl', ity
pur.sue with as little rigour as the nature of zhin,gx
eVotild'odiniti a system which could preserve chi'
tranquillity of Ireland, for he -had -nothing but
th - ‘‘%!lfare of his Cduntry at heart. That-wel-
fare, his Lordship Said, -depended much an, the
fate of the Dill now before the Committee, for
if individuals lbw-0 they were to be proteaed;
they 'would 'be' tfalpuil ;.; hut if they found:
that - Government was not to be armed with
the power, as well as actuated. by the . in-
clination to protect them, they Would again na-
turally rake their protection, into their own
hands, and that 'would give birth ag=ain to those
scenes-which had already been so much deplore&
His Lordship concluded with giving' his- dissent
from the Clause proposed by the Hon. Gentleman.
Mr. I:PWITBREdD ,with considerable.
warmth, and insisted that he had put no other thart
aright interpretation on the Speech of LordCt, AK Ej
and no other than a .right interpretation on the
condud of thexecutiveGoveriunentin Ireland,-
in giving countenance to a system of Torture ;
to support Which interpretation he qUot4ed several
passages from the Pamphlet; said to be the Speech
of Urd C..1.-9.R E, and which he said he'ondersto:xl
to be authentic ; and-he quotecralso die case of ati
individual, *ho he said nad been most inamotis-
ly treated by the Sheriff a a Cottiry, and who
brought an - Aition for treatment, arid obi
rained a verdict, which verd;.el was approved
of by r.ll the judges'‘ of Ireland ; but whet%
Government found there was no means to

1 „w„

• _ _ _ _
proteel this Sherid: by Law; they brought in,
and caused to be passed; a Bill of general Indemnity'
to persons who had exceeded the authority given'
by LaW.—These things,- he maintained, proved
that Government had given countenance to Tor-.
ttire in. Irelaild.
Mr. CLAUDIUS BERESFORD rose td
oppose the Clause.-41-1e said, th.at the hearts of
Gentlemen may bleed for the,People of Iceland;
and lament the' severities which haVe been exer-
cised on them,. but tteir hearts earthot feel more'
on this subjeEt than those havedone who saw the
necessity of these s•.fteities infliaed, and
felt themselves under the' necessity of 'inflicting
them ; and did they know as well, and had they
'felt as much the calamities at id the sufferings to
which the Gentlemen of 'lreland were subjecled
in the course of 'the Rebellion, as he and many •
'Others, they would spare some 'of their compas-
iBil for the People on whOin it was'found neces.
sary to these severies; and bestow it upon
those Gentlemen whose lives -had' been 'endanger.:
ed, who had been threatened with assassination,
and whose property'had been plundered --and deg
stroyed. - That such severities .-as had beep
charged by some Hon. Gentlemen -to have been
exercised, had really been exercised in many
cases ; that punishMents had been inflieted for the
purpose of extorting • confessions from those
who were suspqted' of concealing arms,' he
ivould not, and it would be 'unmatay in
to deny. He would acknowledge that many
Country Gentlemen; whOst'lives and property
were threatened, who, perha.p, had reason to
apprehend that they might be assassinated in the
ensuing night, had inflicted such severities in or:.
der to discover the private deposits of an ups, and
thus ,to prevent or frustrate the daigns which
they knew to be harboured against them. This,
hoWever; was certsinly not authorized by the
Covet...me:it ; licit he 'would venture to assert,
that in such cireumstintes as these Gentlemen
Were platted, their corid'ua .was perfeetly just
•

HORPIOUSE said,. he Conl3 conceive no
•
stronger proot of ;he necessity of introducing the
Clause moved for by his Hon. Friend 'into the '
Bill, than.the.Speech of the HOn. Gentleman who
'spoke last. Hellas openly confessed *hat Tor:.
lure, had-been inflicted for the purpose of extort:.
ing confessions.; and he has openly asserted, that
circumstances. were such as to justify it. He
would, on the other hind, hazard an assertion,
that no cirewnstances, of whatever nature, can
justify such a condul, which he would evet aver
to be equally cruel, inconsistent with sound- po_
licy, with common sense, and with the feelings
of Justice and Humanity. The onlyarkument by
which this Clause had been opposed, was one
most haCkneyed in the House, and one taieh,
Otis opinioii, was not only, most fidlacious, but
most subversive of the principles of the Consti,
tution-It is said, the Lord Lieutenant' of Ire-
land has never abused the powers et;ornmitted to
him by this Bill as it stands, therefore the House
ought to have confidence 'in the Government
Ireland,
.that it will nor abuse than, and leave it
to the responsibility of the'Government. But if
this
,argument from confidence and responsibility
is thus conclusive, why are there 'any restridions
in this Bill ?—Why are there any checks or re_
straints imposed on flu: Executive Power ?—Why
is the 'nunitier of which the Courts-Martial must
be coMposed, increased to:Seven.? He could see
no reason why the Clause should not be adopted ;
and on the• other' hand, the 'Speech of the lion.'
Gentleman who spoke last, afforded the strongest
proof of its neceisity. •
• Al r, J. C. BERESFOil:explained:.
The SOLICITOR GENERAL opposed the
Amendment, as .being tbtally ur..-,-4cessary, and
being worse than unnecess-ary, as implying in. it:.
self, whatever may be the views of those who sup-
pot it, a censure on the manner in ,whiolt the
powers granted by this Bill have been formerly
exercised .by the Government of Ireland.. Upon
the same principle on 'which it is gledged to ,
necessary to add this Clause to this Bill, hi <on-
turided" that it would be necessary to *Ada similar '
C:ause `to every Ad or Bill, Tiopowerini the in..
11i6tion of a discretionary punt :hrnent ; for the
words " By death or otherVise,"' upon whi.,:h
the Clause, and, the supposed necessity, for it,
are founded, can signify oiliji) " By death, ?r
any other lighter punishment thanalcath,"
any other punishment unknown to the Laiv:
As to the severities Wkich have been exercised in •
some cases in Ireland, lamented them as much
.
as any man ; but after bearing the statement of
the circumstances; in which alone they were ex.

ercised, as gisien by the Hon. Gentleman (Mr.
BELESFORD), he thought that Gentlemen ought
to pause before passing any very harsh censure
upon those who were the authors of them. He
did not pretend to justify them, but what a per-
son deliberating coolly. must condemn, .what -is
repugnant to his principles in the moment of
cAltpco•)sider.tion, he may, without incurring a
very high degree of blame, or laying himself open
to any severe censure, he led, when the dagger
is almost at his breast, when the safety and the
lives of his wife and his children, when all-that
is dear to him is at stake, be led himself to
do. What, therefore, in principle he could
not justify, in feeling, he could in a great measure
excuse. At all events, it has never been pre.
sumed to be suggested, or even hinted at, that
any such severities have at all been exercised
since this A& has been in force, and the present
Clause he therefore conceived to be a most unjust
attempt to throw en the-Bill the odium of seve-
rities exercised before it was in force, but which
it has been effeaual in putting an end to.
Mr. WHITBREAD explained.
,Mr. DAWSON said, That he had opposed this
measure altogether, when it was first passed by
the Irish Parliament ; he had then, as he now
did, watched its progress through the Committee,
and had supported every limitation proposed to
be set to the powers to be granted by it ; but it
was then never-imagined, that the. Bill gave any
power to inflia punishments unknown to the
law. He could not conceive how it could be tor-
tured-into giving authority to infii& torture.—
Conceiving, therefore, the proposed Clause to
`,be unnecessary in this point of view, and in this
alone, he would not vote for it.
Mr. M. A. TAYLOR supported the Clause,
and expressed a hope, that whether it should be
carried or not,' the discussion upon it would at
lekst chew to the Country the general detestation
in which such cruelties as those which had been
mentioned are held.
The ATTORNEY GENERAL said, in his
opinion all the Debate which had taken place on
this Clause was merely combating phantoms,
fighting with shadows. No person in the least
acquainted with Law can possibly interpret the
expression " By death or otherwise," to signify
that a power is given to inflia punishments un-
known to the Law, either to the Civil, Munici-
pal, or Military Law. [A .cry of "Hear !" from
the Olposition Bench.]—There is no such thing
authorized by the Bill as Torture to extort con..
fession.

Mr. GREY said, that the Horn. and Learned
Gentleman who had just sat down had allowed
that military punishments may be inflithd by
Courts-Martial according to this Bill. o.n this
very ground it was that he would support the
Amendment moved by his Hon. Friend ; for he
could never consent, that the People of Ireland
should be subjeaed to any punishment, but such
as may be infliCted on conviction of the same
offences by the ordinary Courts of Justice, ac.
cording to the Municipal or. Statute Law. House-
breaking, and other civil offences which consti-
tute Felony by the Common Law, being inter-
preted as furtheranCe of Rebellion, • may, accord.
Ing to this Bill as 'it now stands, be punished by
a military punishment unknown to the Municipal
Law—for instance, with the barbarous punishment
of r coo lashes, infliCled at different times. A new
species of offence had been found out in Ireland—
the Harbouring of Rebels ; and even this, accord-
ing to, this Bill, may be punished in the same
manner. From the manner in which this Bill
had been introduced, and the grounds on which
it had been urged to be necessary, he could not
see upon what principle this Clause could be ob_
jetted to. The Bill was alledged to be neces-
sary, because Jurors could not be found to do
their duty, and to be 'necessary on this ground
alone. How then can those who urged this ne-
cessity, and hold our this plea for passing the
Bill, professing at the same time attachment to
the Common Law, reconcile this principle with
opposing a Clause which goes merely to confirm
Courts_Martial sitting on the trial of civil of_
fences, and sentencing to the punishments autho-
rised by the Common Law ? As to the sufferings
of one class, and the severities infliCted on ano-
ther, in the course of the Rebellion, he wished
that both could be buried in utter oblivion,
but he confessed that he bad been surprized

, not a little at the justification of these seve-
rities by one Hon. Gentleman, and the ex-
" culpation of them by another. Ile was shocked
to think that such an idea could be for one mo.

ment entertained by the House, The Noble
Lord (Lord CAs ILEREAGII) said, that it may be
yet necessary for the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland
to depute to others the powers granted by this
Bill ; and shall then the I louse of Commons, fore_
warned of such a possibility, risk the repetition
of such atrocities and cruelties, for such he would
call them, as has been avowed,and even justified ?
Nlr. GREY then adverted to the excuses held for
the exercise of such severities, by the Solicitor
General, from the circumstances, and compared
his reasoning to that by which Robespierre, whom
be called a monster, a scourge, which, to the
di:,grace of mankind, and to the misery of the
srecZeg, had been allowed for eighteen months to
desolate France, justified his ravages and cruel-
tks.

The Sol.tct cox CENrßilt. explained.
The S ET A RY at WAR opposed the Clause,
en the ground, that if it is necessary to substitute
Courts Martini k the ordinary Courts of Jvstice)
then, fiorn the nature of the thing, all inilhary
punishments ought to he allowed-to be inflided.
Col. NIA TIN spoke ogaiwt the Clause.
.T.OFTUS Opposed the Clause, and
Lcrd CAMDEN'S Government of Ire.
Irani some insinuations which he conceived
!..-iad peen thrown out against it,
`I he floa';c divided,
For the Chaise 5
Against it - 84.
•

Majority

The Bill then passed through the Committee
without farther amendment, and the Report was
ordered to be received to-moirow.
The Order for farther considering the Report
of the Committee cm the Poor Relief Bill was
read. It was moved, " That it be now taken
into consideration."

Mr. CURWEN, after .a few observations
against the Bill, moved to substitute for the
word " now" the words " this day six months."
Mr. ROSE said, that in consideration of .the
importance of the objea of this Bill, he had sup.
ported its going into a Committee, but that
seeing the state in which it has come from the
Committee, he could no longer give it his sup.
port.
The House divided on the Question, that the
word, " Now," do stand part of the Motion,
when there appeared,
Ayes 8
Noeso.

Majority 3o
Mr. Cu aw F ti's Motion wag then agreed to
so that the Bill may be said to be thrown out.
The House adjourned at halfpast twelve o'clock
till to.morrow.

THE SUN.

SOLEM QUIS DICLRE FALSUM AUDEAC ?

she was capable of in I-16z. It may theretore
thus early be -foreseen, that a long time will
elapse before she will aft offensively against the
Frontiers of Portugal ; that when she does so,
her system of Attack will not be such, as to sur-
mount the obstacles which the nature of the Coun-
try opposes; and that time will thus be gained at
Lisbon, sufficient either to receive further assist-
ance, or to render it unnecessary by Pacific Ar-
range ments.

The Hanshurgh Mail which became due yes-
terday, is not yet arrived.
The QUEEN, we are sorry to learn, is indis-
posed with a cold, caught by her attendance on
His MAJESTY during his indisposition.

A Meeting of the Cabinet Ministers was yes-
terday held at Lord HAWKESBUItY'S Office, in
Downing -s tree t.
Yesterday a Board was again held at the Trea-
sury, at which Mr. PITT assisted, for the pur_
pose of getting through the Papers up to the pe-
riod of his quitting Office.

The new Law Arrangements are expeled to
take place in the course of the present week.
Mr. DUNDAS has not yet resigned his Office
of President of the Board of Controul, as he is
completing the business `before the Board previ-
ous to his giving it up to Lord LE W ISHAM.

Lieutenant HARRIS, of the Navy, from Ad-
miral Lord KEITH and General ABERCROMBY,
arrived yesterday morning with Dispatches for
Government.

The Intelligence contained in the German Pa-
pers brought by the last Hansburghlifail, is enti-
tled to very little notice. The threats of the
Northern Confederacy, in which, as far as the
tone of her communications is to be regarded, we
are to include Prussia, occupy much space in their
columns ; and the Advices received by Govern-
ment on Tuesday night, are, we believe, of the
same hostile complexion.
Yesterday a Court. of Directors was held at
the
jEast India House, when Mr. HENRY BAG-
SHAW was appointed Inspeetor of Teas, at Can-
ton, vice Mr. ARTHUR, deceased.
The following Commanders took leave pre-
vious to departing for their respeCtive destina-
tions, viz.

Captain BENJAMIN RICHARDSON, of the Prin-
cess Charlotte, for Madras, and the Molucca
Islands: HENRY WILSON, of the Wade);
JAMES PETER FEAR.ON, of the Belvidere; and
J. FA.RQUHARSON, of the Alfred, for China.
The Court adjourned at a late hour till to-
morrow.

Letters received yesterday advise the Ship
Henry Addington, at Sea, Feb. Ist, 1801, lat.
z 7. 54:N. long. 19. 30. W. with the Company's
Ship Ocean, and six other Vessels, outward.
bound, under convoy of the Hussar, Lord Gwa-
L z Es, having parted with the Nett/Wars on the
t9th January, and the Carnatic on the'aoth....-
Thick weather, and blowing hard from the
Westward.

Adv ices received over land from Bengal, dated
13th November last, state that the Morning/on
Packet was under dispatch for England ; that
there had not been any importations since the
loss of the Kent, and that the Princess Mar) and
4nna had sailed for England, the 29th OCtober.
General STA/ART, who was lately appointed
Commander in Chief of the British Forces on the
Coast of Coromandel, proceeds, to Madras in the
Company's ship the CharIton,Capt.CUMBERLEGE.
The abuse heaped upon Mr. PITT by those
wretched miscreants who, while he was in power,
offered that servile incense which his noble mind
could not but disdain, excites the warmest indig-
nation of every liberal and manly bosom, while
in that of the elevated objet} of that abuse, if it
be noticed at all, it can raise only feelings of
contempt.

Earl ST. VINCENT, we are happy to learn, has
formed a Plan, equally liberal and just, for the
benefit of the Corps of Marines. His Lordship,
from his long professional services, knows how
to appreciate the merits of that Corps, and he feels
in a way highly honourable to him, the negleet
which they have for so many years experienced.
The good efTets of the Union towards Ireland
is likely to be felt immediately by that Country.
On the representation of ColOnei LONGFIELD,
Member for the City of Cork, hops and herrings
will, it is said, be suffered to be imported duty
free, into Ireland, which will be of innnite bene-
fit to that.part of the Empire.
The Marquis of TOWNSFIEND'S Birth-day was
celebrated in Ireland with great festivity, and to
prove that the Union has produced no change in
the charaaer of -the Country, it may be sufficient
to state that the toasts amounted to 31 in num-
ber, which estimating 14 glasses to the bottle, is
above two bottles per man.
The KING of DgmtARK has issued a general
pardon fOr all Sea and Land Deserters, who rriay
return before the expiration of the present year.
The greatest alacrity prevails in the Dock-
yards on the Maas, to fit out a strong Squadron
of Men of War, which is to be stationed at Hel.
voetslys.

The ARCHDUKE CHARLES has sent a Charge
d'Affaires to Brussels, to take possession in his
name of an estate in Belgium, which was left to
him by the ARCHDUTCHESS CHRISTIANA..

Yesterday was married at St. James's Church,
by the Right Rev. Lord BISHOP of GLOVVES.
Tel, THOMAS Goocu, Esq. son of Sir Tao.
MAS GoocH, Bart. and Major of the loth Light
Dragoons, to Mrs. PH. S}4. WEBB, reliet of the
late PH. SM. WEI3D, Esq. of Milford-House.
Surrey, and daughter of the late Sir RostliT
BARKER, Bart.