The Sun.
London, England, 1839-08-24 00:00:00

Bill passed bow were they to govern the country ? Now
he apprehended the Noble Duke did not apply the question
in the same sense as the Noble and Learned Lord. The
Noble Duke did not intend to confine himself to the mere
passing of laws, for Parliament had much more to do
than that. They were called together for other purposes,
and although many Bills had not passed into law and ninny
matters remained unredressed, still it could not properly
be said, nothing had been done. They were called to-
gether to consider the Estimates for the Public Service—
to retrench where there was extravagance, and to assist
the Crown with those subsidies and supplies with which
t thought proper to arm it all that bad been done, and,
therefore, because many laws had nst been passed, it could
nut be said that the business of the country had not been
done; besides, they had passed many Acts-and Statutes—
quite enough to form a plentiful harvest of Acts and
Statutes next Session. The Noble and Learned Lord
then alluded to the principal subjects mentioned in the
Speech from the Throne. 'fee main question—the one he
put in the front of the battle, was that one which had been
so much discussed during the last three or four years—the
Municipal Corporations (Ireland) Bill, and he said it was
the fault of the Government that that Bill was not
now the law of the land. He could only say that the
reason why that Bill had not passed was the altera-
tions which their Lordships had made under the de-
nomination of amendments, and with which they
had encumbered the Bill. He had been most
liberal in his charges, and he charged him (Lord M.) with
inconsistency in language, so foul and abusive that he would
not attempt to imitate him. With regard to the freemen's
clause in that Bill, he could only say that previously the
Government had not been aware of the artful manner in
which that clause had been drawn up ; snd, with respect
to the nomination of Sheriffe, he ( Lord M.) certainly
thought that something should be deferred to the present
circumstances and feeling of Ireland. The Grand Jury
clauses most undoubtedly lost the Bill. The Government
eere not chargeable with delay in bringing in the Bill. It
had not become law because of the difference of opinion
between the two Houses of Parliament, which he trusted
could speedily be
aliberemoved,
tahnedgarenatenadnxptitettytow th.hiechquheasd
been'ion.
felter
o eusspe -
of
m He g
the Canada question. He had talked
et'
Peersi hastening up from the country to listen
nur
:o the expected debate on that question. That they were
disappointed was not his fault. With respect to the great
question itself, it had already been clearly explained why
he Government thought it neither wise nor prudent to pro-
ceed with it in the present Session, and certainly there had
been no great or loud expression of opinion. He did not
remember that they had been urged to bring or press the
question to a decision. It was too much, then, for the
Noble and Learned Lord to cosao down, and in the speech
with which he usually favoured their Lordships as a wind-
up of the Session, to make that a matter of complaint.
rhey were then charged with not having carried out the
recammendations of the Ecclesiastical Commissioners. No
doubt, by the pressure of public business, the Government
had not been able to press the Bill for that purpose. They
were very desirous that the Bill should become law, and
would proceed with it early next Session. The next charge
was for not having carried measures for the better admi-
nistration of justice. There again the pressure of public
business had compelled them to pause; but had the Noble
and Learned Lord some two or three years ago been as
anxious to do away with the abuses in the Court of Chan-
cery, which were then as great us now, he might have
embraced the opportunity then offered him. On the con-
trary, the Noble and Learned Lord was then the leader of
chose who rejected that Bill upon the second reading; he
would not then even go into Committee on it, where it
might have been considered otherwise a remedy for the
evils which were not now greater than at that time, or a
remedy might have been applied. The Noble and Learned
Lord then said there were many other measures which
were not mentioned in the Speech from the Throne, and
emongst the foremost he placed the celebrated ono of
sducation. He ( Lord M.) entirely denied that the Go.
vernment had any intention of showing the slightest dis-
respect to the House of Lords in their manner of treating
that question. They had taken that course which they
had a perfect right to follow. They had obtained a grant
of money from the other House of Parliament for a
purpose which was admitted to be one of a great
and useful nature, and the Government applied it by
those means which they had in their power. They applied
it by the power of the prerogative of the Crown, as the best
means in their power. The Noble and Learned Lord
adverted, in no measured terms, to the Jamaica Bill; lie
;aid the Government on t} at occasion were actuated by
the very worst of motives. Now he had only to say to
those insinuations that they were utterly false, and
void of any foundation.—( Hear, hear.) He utterly and
entirely denied them, come from what quarter they might.
He said that in respect to that question there was on the
part of the Government, intrigue. He denied it. Neither
was their any management. There .vas nothing that was
mean, base, or perfidious in the transaction, and come from
what quarter such insinuations might, be (Lord M.) at
ence denied and disclaimed them. He did not like to be
drawn into the use of strong language, because truth did
not require its use, but he disclaimed such insinuations and
imputations, as had been so freely thrown upon the Go
vernment. He had distinctly stated in that House that
when he was sent fur by her Majesty, be conceived that
the negotiations with the intended Government were
finished and concluded, and upon that understanding he
acted, and he was convinced that he acted rightly, fairly,
And constitutionally. The Noble Lord then went through
the whole case of the second Jamaica Bill. He (Lord M.)
was unwilling to detain the House with going through that
case again. He had stated his opinion pretty strongly
upon it at the time —perhaps too strongly. His
opinion was that upon the whole of the Jamaica question
snd the Canada question the Government of the country
did not receive that support from that House which they had
a right to expect, and which the interests of the country

‘lemanded. He thought the interests of the country had
been sacrificed upon those questions—he would not say to
the feelings or spirit of party, because he would not im-
pute motives, but the Government was not supported as
they had a right to expect if their Lordships had taken a
clear and impartial view of the circumstances of the coun-
try. He knew that feelings were engendered in that House
inimical to cool reasoning ; but upon those questions, and
the question of the slave trade, he did not think the House
had done its duty, and he felt great apprehension that they
would not be prepared for the difficulties which such con-
euct might create. The Government wore then charged
with having taken a shabby course on the question of
the Ballot—if that conduct deserved the name then
no man or Government which shad been in existence
During the last 50 years, but must lie under the
same imputation. These were the measures advert-
ed to by the Noble Lord previous to that flight of
Bills which were thrown upon them after the 9th
of July, the sweepings of the office, as he called them,
although he admitted that some of them were useful, and
met with favourable observation in that House- The
Noble and Learned Lord, however, could let no opportu
nity pass, and accordingly he then dealt liberally in his in-
sinuations, attributing to Government the most worthless,
base, and foul motives. Now, in point of character, they
were not behind the Noble and Learned Lord, and why,
then, should they submit to his insinuations? With respect
to the Postage Bill, probably some of the Government
may have objected to the hazard of suffering a great loss
of the revenue. He did not, however, know when or
',there, but surely upon a question of so much importance,
without
they might fairly give it a re-consideration. The Noble
and Learned Lord spoke of the pt u
ael sl s
0r
Was he not aware that there was a pressure also from
d urrercA senhfib f rnuoerm dt
t wn
o.i t oißbue
ut
rals,
within, and that the first to commence that pressure was
oiie his
t
the sbslsuelje lfyror•odtmhoe
i ow n
was party,
not
a Lord
Noble and Learned Lord would not ob.
ject to their yielding to Conservative pressure. The great
and general feeling in favour of the measure he took to be a
good ground for attempting the experiment. The Noble and
Learned Lord then insinuated that the Bill had been intro-
duced in such a shape as must insure its rejection. There was
not the slightest foundation for saying so—it was an infe-
rence drawn from no act of the Government The pro-
viso in the preamble had been introduced with no other
view than the one avowed by them, viz., to provide for any
defalcation in the revenue. The Noble and Learned Lord
had said the Government had relied with great confidence
on their Lordships rejecting the Postage Bill. They
might sometimes rely on that with a great deal of certainty
sod safety, but he could assure their Lordships it was not
relied on in this case.—( Laughter.) The Noble and
Learned Lord had stated that that Bill was a matter of
revenue, and that he (Lord Melbourne) knew their
Lordships had nothing at all to do with it. That was
carrying the privileges of the House of Commons beyond
what he had ever stated er heard of before ; and to say
that their Lordships were to pass every Bill that came up
from the Commons, whatever amount of revenue it might
sacrifice, or whatever amount of taxes it might impose,
was really a doctrine that he hardly expected to hear from
the Noble anti Learned Lord. Then the Noble and
Learned Lord had asserted that they had introduced a
clause in that Bill from certain motives. Undoubtedly it
uge slavetrade, and that was the
}Measure.—(
was only an assertion, and he (Lord Melbourne) could
only meet it with a distinct assertion to the contrary, and
to state that it was entirely without foundation. Well,
'lien, the Noble and Learned Lord had adverted
to the Port
of
only part of the Noble and Learned Lord's speech
in which he concurred, or to which he had listened with
any degree
Laughter.) The Noble and
Learned Lord had stated very fairly, very justly, and
es
very boldly, the impression that had been made on his
mind be the perusal of the papers, and that this country
certainly had a good case against Portugal, but that that
ease was as good two years ago as it was now ; and that if
they had proceeded to act then, all the horrors and miseries
this county
that had taken place during the last two years would have
been prevented. He ( Lord M. )would not say that they had
not conceded too much, or that they had not borne too
long with Portug
Y ; considering thal ; but considering. her alliance with
commercialuity relationsat
we
fiance ; considering the
have had with that country ; and considering
the connection between that country and England,
e anyq of th
surely some some litt'e delay, surely something of forbearance
was to be exercised, and he did not think it was a very
wmewhat further than in strict reason they were justified
great fault if the Government had carried that forbearance
in "in* The Noble and Learned Lord bad then re-
ferred to a number of other Bills, and had with that ad-
mirable ingenuity, and with all those powers that distin-
guished him, pat them into classes ; but he (Lord M.) was
afraid that he was deficient in many of those qualities
which dicitiguished the Noble and Learned Lord, and it
would therefore be a very feigning and tiresome task for
him to follow the Noble Lord in these classes of measures.
The Metropolitan Police Courts Bill wa=, however, parti-
celarly adverted to. He would not enter into the
arguments which the Noble and Learned Lord had
put forward on that Bill, and with respect to the
insinuation which the Noble and Learned Lord
had thrown out, he could only give it the same unqualified
denial which lie had given to the other imputations and
corrupt motives cast on him by the Noble and Learned
cen-
sure between the Ministers and the House of Commons.
Lord. But the Noble and Learned Lord divided his
He was perpetually saying " This is the fruit of a iefornied
House of Commons;" and on that point he (Lord M.)