The Sun.
London, England, 1837-12-08 00:00:00

en orga-lised system of misrepresentation—be was not sure
that some of the obscure • papers in Ireland were not under.
the pay cf thoss gentlemen, and ho was not sure that •it was
nut their business to supply the grossest misrepresentations or
facts, b: . Isehoeds which had no: existence except in the brain
of thcs, aho originated them. He was not sure that some of
these persons would not be found receiving a portion of this
fun t. He was anxious to state what was the true cause of the-
!striking results that attendedalre-lare election. Three-fourths
of the Irish Members were returned in opposition to the '
views and the tei,hes pfalie Hon.. Gentlemen opposite. This
hid not been done by -intimidation, by fictitious votes, or by
bribery. , The Hon. Baronet bad given a similar statement
respectieg-.the Eaglish-eleetions, and he ought to know how
they had been ,:conducted. It was the declaration of Lord
.7Lyndtiorst; acting in the capacity of leader of the party,
wrich, he was sorry to say, was so numerous on the other side
of -taus House—ii was that Ncla!e Lord'. declaration, never re-
tracted. but pei.vered in for three years. It was the fear
that if he and party got into power they would act upon
,t' e poliey thus implied, and upon which policy they coninued
tc act as fir iis th..y cou'd'—a Ras this which induced every
Crtholic in Irelawl, from the Nobleman to. the peasant, the
Clergy as well as the laity, to rise with a common impulse,
and resist those candidates who presented themselves as the
tiger's of that policy. He would take the liberty of calling
rhe attention of the House to the effect of encouraging such
subscriptions, aria would ask whether it was possible to devise
any proceedings more calculated to draw forth the bitterest
animosley? - Whcn the qu-stion of the Repeal. cf the Union
• was agitated in Ireland he did all be could teed'sceurage, and
he oppese.d it in Parliament. But he must sa: that no argu-
ments hal ever been usA- by the advocates of that measure
which coul,l operate so powerfully upon the minds of the people
of Lelend, or upon his mind, as those subscriptions to defeat
'the return. of Irish Members. There was not one of these
arguments which' such a proceeding would not justify. If the
people of Ireland did not feel confidence in the present Go-
ye-Ist:lent of that country he would not answer fur a continu-
ance of the connection between England and Ireland.—( A
laugh.) This question should not be viewed as it related to
Ireland alone. There was perhaps no ground at the present
time, and in the present House of Common 7, to apprehend
the possible evils that might anise ; but suppose the House of
Commons to become more corrupt, was it impossible that the
direct force of money might be employed to act u; on Members
that House ? Put the case of the Bank of England or of
the- fast India Company desiring a renewal of their Charter
upon more advantageous terms. Supposing at the same
time that the parties on .each side were nearly balanced
upon the question, was it impossible to conceive that an at.
tempt might be made to secure a majority by the application
of a fund raised by subscription ?—(ll.3ar. ) He came now to
that part of the proceeding with respect to which he had most
right to complain. The Honourable Baronet opposite ( SirFs.
Burdett) the Member for North Wilts wrote a letter to
Mr. Spottiswoode, which he should beg leave to read to the
House :

" TO A. SPOTTISWOODE, ESQ.

" Sir,—lt was my intention to have announced myself this
day in the House of Commons as one of your gang ;' but I
find the motion that relates to it is deferred until the 6,h of
next month, and I thank it very possible that it may be put off
altogether ; and that, although Mr. O'Connell has pledgad
himself to prosecute the subject, he may also drop it, as I
cinnot have the same confidence in his word that the Prince
of Denmark had in that of the Ghost, although poor Mr.
Raphael took it for double the amount. I now, therefore, in
order to secure to myself the honour of beimg one of the
gang' of seeing justice done both to Ireland and England, by
subscribing to A fund intended to defray the necessary expenses
for that purpose, and in order to make my wish as public as
possible, take the liberty thus to address you, and to request the
Editor of the Times to transmit to you my subscription of 201.
—I remain, Sir, you most obedient humble servant,
" FRANCIS BURDETT.

" St. James's-place, Nov. 29.
The Hon. Baronet had, of late, become very fond of quoting
Shakspeare. The Hon. Baronet must be aware that he was
liable to serve upon the Election Committee that might be
appointed to try his return. He must serve under the obliga-
tion-of an oath.—(Hear.) With the feelings which he had
expressed in that letter, was he a fit judge in such a case?—.
( Hen.
cheers.) It had been mentioned to him that the
Hen. Baronet did not pay the whole of his subscription;
that he meant to pay it in instalments : because, if the case
wat decided early enough by a Committee, then the Hon.
Baronet might save. part of his money, if any unexpended re-
serve remain to be disposed of.—(Cries of " Oh, oh,"
from the Opposition.) He did not say that such was
the case. He heard so. In fact, the Honourable Baronet
recommended 2uch a course at a public meeting, and it was
not unreasonable to conclude that he would do himself what
he recommended to others. Now, could the Hon. Baronet
under such circumstances become, in fairness, a judge in his
case ? There were many Members in that House subscribers
to the fund for supporting the petition against his return.
Would any one say they were fit. judges in his case ? Would
any Gentleman opposite say so ?—( Hear, hear.) Suppose a
combination entered into and a subscription raised to the
amount of two hundred thousand pounds to oppose the return
of Hon. Members for Ireland. They might. under some
circumstances, effect the object of their combination more
easily by giving a sum of 5001. directly to the sitting
Member, on the condition (so we understood)* that he
should not oppose a petition. Now, in such a case, would
not the House of Commons be competent to make any in-
quiry upon the subject? Was it to be said that a Committee
might inquire into a conversation said to be held by the
Member for Tipperary, and that they were excluded
from all inquiry into conversations of this kind ? Even
if the appointment of a Committee could, under the Gren.
ville Act, afford no remedy, still if the result was merely
to discountenance such a course would it not be a great be-
nefit? Supposing they determined that there was no law
against it, he could not give up the expectation that it would
tend much to put an end to such proceedings till some more
effectual remedy could be devised. He saw no reason why a
Committee should not decide one way or another in this case
a; well as in any other. He hoped that both sides of the
House would agree in the course he should propose; that
they would not treat this as a party question.—( Cheers from
the Opposition.) Were Gentlemen opposite disposed to act
in a spirit of fair play ?—( Repeated cheers.) Would it he
acting in a spirit of fair play if they refused to support his
motion ? He would conclude by leaving it to the House to
decide the matter either as a question of privilege or any other
w..y they might judge most advisable. The Hon. Member
co ,eluded by moving for a Select Committee to inquire i ito
the allegations of petition.
Mr. E. L. BULWER said it was only an hour back
that he had been requested by his Honourable Friend to
so 'end this motion. He did not deny that there, might
be occasions in which a person opposed in politics to
another might still enter into a subscription of this kind.
He could not, however, disguise from himself that the Hon.
Baronet ( Sir F. Burdett) gave the sanction of his name to a
subscription which might possibly have the effect of placing
hi a in the situation of accuser rnd judge—(Hear)—in which
the same individual might be prosecutor to-day and judge to
morrow. He was not disposed to visit a person to acting with
punishment---( A laugh from the Opposition)—but the House
must, by their vote that night, determine whether the subscri-
ber to such a fund ought to be Judge in the case in which he
must also be considered as prosecutor. He put it to their
eommoe sense of justice and honour whether this was fair,
whether both the theory and the practice of the Constitution
ma; not against it? The spirit of the Constitution wls, do not
condemn a man before you have determined on his guilt. This
was a principle which he apprehended neither the Hun. Baro-
net nor any other person could deny ; but the question be- '
came infinitely of greater importance, when it was proposed,
in effect, to disfranchise a nation. disregarding a principle
oh erved is every other ewe. There was not a swindl..r,
thief, or a murderer who did not claim the right, and to
whom the right was not extended, of not having his case pre-
judged. But their jouraals, their pamphlets, their pharisaical
columns of subscribers, refused that justice to Members of the
House of Commons which was never refused to the most ob-
scure and the most abandoned of criminals.. The Hon. Baronet
the Member for-North Wilts said it was unheard of in Parlia-
ment to censure such a proceeding. The Hon. Baronet him-
self was the very last man in the House who should say so.
The Hon. Baronet could, no docile, carry his recollection so
far back as thirty-five years. Now, by a singulai coincidence,
it happened that on the 6th of December, thirty-five years beck,
a petition was pres.nted in that House, con-Qlaiiiing of the re.:
turn of the sitting Member for the county of Middlesex. Sub-
scripti ,ns had been entered into to support this petition, to de-
fray the expenses that might be incurred before a Committee.
Upon that occasion an Hon. Baronet ro;e in his place and said,
" There cannot be two opinions—( Ministerial cheers)—that
to enter into a subscription to support a petition was highly
imp,ot,er, and liable to objection, as tending manifestly to pre-
judge the ca,e—(Cheers)—and to prejudice the minds of
these who might after become the Judges of it."—( Loud
cheers from the Ministerial benches.) The Hon. Baronet
then proposed this resolution :—" That to subscribe money to
support a petition which may be pending in this House is a
breach of privilege."—(Tremendoue cheers from the Minis-
terial benches.) Now, eha made this complaint, ani who
proposed this resolution ? The Hon. Member for North
Wilts, Sir Francis Burdett.—( Loud cheers from the Millie-
-aerial benches.) He ( Mr. Bulwer) once heard of an old wan
who, on the condi.ien of bei ig restored to youth, agreed to
give up his whole personal identity, all remembrance of the
past, all old frienris, all early connections, all former opinions,
all early attachments. This was the very situation of the
Hun. Ba. -'net, with the slight deduction that he had not yet
received yo..th in exchange.—( Loud cheers.) The lion.
Baronet for,r,ot all past event;, relinquished all form' r
opinions, lost ill former friends, and loaf, he was

sorry to say, all his fair public name. Let the House
obserse the dul...•rence of criminality in both c iscs,
in the sul,scriptioi against the Middlesex petiloi and in that
against: the returns for Ireland. In the former they who were
subscribers were all electors. In the latter the subscribers
were not elector;. In the present inqinee the Hon. Mcmhc'r
for Limerick only moved for a Committee of Inquiry into the
real circumstances of the case. What appeared to Lim
(Mr. Bulwer) to be the worst feature in these proceed,ncrs
wiv, that the whole object of the subscriptions was directed
against ode part of the empire.—( Hear, hear.) They bad
had contests botb in England and in Scotland.—( Ilear, hear.)
Petitions had been presented against Membe:-3 suppose,' to be
unduly r-turned for places in both parts of the Kingdom ; • and
yet not a single shilling of these subscriptions was intended to
be devoted to them.—( Loud cheers from the Ministerial si.le.)
But all the resources of party malignity were brought to
bear against the private fortunes of Irish Representat'ves.
And th:s was called justice to Ireland.,-(Loud cheers )
This was whit was culled the preservation of the Union I
-Cheers.) Were England and Ireland one kingdom ?
(Near, hear.) If so, how could Gentlemen oprosite unite
foe Pe purpose of overbearing the votes of the Me era of