The Sun.
London, England, 1837-12-26 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

The following has been left over from Saturday, in conse-
quence.of the important debate on Canada, as stated in our
Paper, and is only now inserted on Account of the great
distress of the Hand-loom Weavers.]
DISTRESS OF THE HANDLOOM WEAVERS.

Mr. FIELD EN rose to call the attention of the House to
a petition presented on the 11th of December from the hand-
loom weavers of Manchester. In Manchester alone there
were computed to be at least 6,000 weavers, some of whom
had been visited by persons appointed for that purpose. The
results of the inquiry made by the visitors were, that 876 fa-
milies whom they had visited, containing 3.274 persons, de-
pended for support on the income of 1,740 looms employed.
The average earnings of these looms did not exceed 3321. 6s.
3d. weekly, leaving an average of 2s. id. a week to each per-
son, and deducting Is. 2d. a week for rent, fuel, soap, and
candles, the average for the support and clothing of each per-
son per week would be only 10id. or 1-&el. per day. It was
now five years since this subject had been brought under
the notice of Parliament, and though the distress of
these persons was admitted to be great, no redress what-
ever had been afforded them.—(Hear, hear.) It had
been proved before Committees- that these men worked from
twelve to fifteen hours a-day, and they were unable to sup-
port themselves by their labour. The articles produced by
these operatives were of a description principally consumed by
the rich and wealthy, who could afford to pay a remunerating
price for the labour that produced them, and a great quantity
of these articles were exported to foreign countries, to be ex-
changed for commodities that contributed to the comfort and
luxury of the wealthy classes. Notwithstanding the patient
demeanour of these persons, their grievances remained unre-
dressed. If this indifference continued, he would, at the risk
of being considered factious, take steps that would force the
case of these persons on the attention of the Government. If
some redress was not afforded he would feel bound to get up
and oppose every rote of money that was proposed. That
might be a course open to blame, but if redress was not af-
forded, or some attention bestowed on this subject, that courser
he was determined to take. There was not one of these
weavers that did not contribute to the taxation of the court-
' try, and if the situation of these men did not receive at-
tention, he would take every opportunity that the privileges
of the House afforded to force that attention. All
the facts respecting the distress of the suffering classes had
been clearly established before a Committee, of which the
Right Hon. Member for Manchester (Mr. P. Thomson) was
a Member, and he did think that that Hon. Member had not
done his duty towards those people by not directing the at-
tention of the Government to the sufferings they endured.
One of the reports of a Committee recommended a Bill to be
brought in, which would have the effect of relieving those
distressed weavers. That Bill was brought in by the Hon.
Member for Lanark, and it was met on the part of the Go
vernment by a direct negative, and was nut allowed to pro-
ceed. In the course of the last Session the matter was not
lost sight of. A motion was made in July last for
an Address to the Crown for a Commission to inquire
into the condition of the distressed operatives in the
manufacturing districts. That Address was voted six
months ago, and yet not a single Commissioner had been
sent forward, though the operatives were dying for want
of food. It showed that the Government were indifferent
to the condition of the working people ; but he could 'tell
the House that no Government could carry on their busi-
ness who were indifferent to the distresses of the working
people. He would like to know why this inquiry had not
proceeded ? If a vote of that House was good for any thing
it ought to be acted upon. The Government that would act
in this way could not have his confidence, for he thought after
the vote of the House that that inquiry ought to have been pro-
ceeded with, and they should have ascertained what redress
could be afforded. Something should be done. They must
either raise the wages of these operatives to a scale that would
afford them the means to live, or they must do what would
lead to the same effect, namely, reduce the taxation that
pressed on the necessaries of life. He thought that they
ought to have a minimum of wages. The Hun. Member con-
cluded by moving the following resolution :—" That there is
in this kingdom an immense body of hand-loom weavers suf-
fering unparalleled distress, and that this distress arises from
the unprecedented low rate of wages that the weavers are paid
for their work, and from the heavy taxes imposed by this
House on the food and other necessaries of life, a sufficiency
of which their wages should enable them to purchase; that the
work which a large proportion of these weavers execute, con-
sists of articles indispensably necessary to the personal comfort
and convenience of the higher and middle classes of society,
or of articles exported to foreign countries, and there ex-
changed for luxuries and necessaries, to increase the affluence
and comfort of those classes ; and that it is therefore the in-
terest as well as the duty of the representatives of the people
in this House, immediately to devise and enact such laws as
shall either raise the wages of these distressed weavers to a
scale adequate to maintain them comfortably, or that shall so
reduce the taxes imposed on the necessaries of life, and to
alter the mode of collecting such taxes, as that no part of the
wages paid to these weavers shall be abstracted from them, by
either direct or indirect taxation on those necessaries."

The motion was seconded by Mr. H. FLEETWOOD, and
put from the Chsir.
Mr, H. FLEETWOOD was in communication with a large
body of his constituents on this subject, and he knew that
those handloom weavers who were suffering great distress
at present would receive as a great source of comfort
any assurance of sympathy on the part of the House.
During all the troubles that had taken place throughout the
country, these men were remarkable for their peaceable de-
meanour. Their case demanded attention, and they ought
to see what could be done to reduce taxation upon the neces-
saries of life. There was one point in which he differed
from the Hon. Member for Oldham. He did not think that
they could possibly raise the standard of wages, but they
ought to reduce taxation.
Mr. M. PHILIPS was not in the House when the com-
mission alluded to by the Honourable Member for Oldham bad
been agreed to. Knowing the objections to such a proceed-
ing, had he been in the House he would not have been
amongst those who voted for it. There was he one more in-
terested in the condition of these weavers, or more anxious to
relieve them, but he differed as to the means of doing so. The
Hon. Gentleman proceeded to refer to the details stated by
the lion. Member for Oldham, for the purpose of showing that
he bad overstated the distress, and also that the distress was
on the decline. He did not mean, however, to deny, that
great distress prevailed throughout that class of the commu-
nity. The petition stated, that this distress was felt more dur-
ing the present than any preceding year, but this was in a
great degree owing to the commercial embarrassments which
deprived this branch of in.dustry of the American market ; and
this diminished consumption was of course immediately felt by
the classes engaged in this manufacture. He did not see
how they could establish a minimum of wages. If any such
standard of wages was legislated for, the operatives themselves
would be the first to feel the inconvenience of it, and the first
to wish to depart from it. Much of the periodical distress
was owing to the variation of the monetary system, and
the consequent fluctuations of commerce. The Honourable
Meipber concluded by stating that there was no class which
suffered so greatly and with so much equanimity, but he re-
gretted that he did not see any direct way of relieving their
distress.
Sir E. WILMOT bore testimony to the distress of the
handloom weavers, and to the patience with which they en-
dured their sufferings. He contended that their distress arose
principally from the system of free trade.
Mr. H IND LE Y.—As a Commission was appointed to in-
quire into the subject he would not go largely into the ques-
tion. The first cause of the distress of the handloom weaver
was the present Corn Laws. It was a shame to expect that,
with corn at double the price of what it was on the Conti-
nent,,the handloom weavers could compete with the same class.
in any of the Continental countries. Though the subject was
a delicate one, he hoped the House would take it into consi-
deration apart from any prejudices with which the subject was
beset. Another cause of the distress was the great improvement
in machinery. Such improvements were in their nature calcu-
lated to benefit the human race, but it was the duty of a provident
Government to take care that, instead of adding to, they shou'd
ameliorate the weight of the original curse, which ordained that
man should earn his bread by the sweat of his brow. The immi-
gration of the Irish poor also added to the distress of the hand-
loom weavers. He did not argue against the right of those
people to come and look for a subsistence in the richer country,
and the people here ought to make them welcome ; but tho
effect of their immigration must necessarily be to reduce those
with whom they came to compete to a condition as lovi as their
own. The immigration of the Irish was likely to be increased
by the operation of the proposed Irish poor law, by the fourth
and fifth clauses of which beggary was about to be made a
crime in Ireland, punishable by imprisonment and the tread-
mill. This would increase immigration, and send over even a
lower elan than those who now came to this country. He
would conclude by stating it as his opinion that Government
was pinned to one of two alternatives. Either they must adopt
some fixed rate of wages, or reduce the amount of taxes upon
articles consumed by the poor.
kr. P. HOWARD recommended the Hon. Member for
Oldham to withdraw his motion, as the subject could not be
well discussed until the Commissioners had made their report.

Mr. DARBY was of opinion that insuperable difficulties
stood in the way of a reduction of the taxes. He thought the
distress of the handloom weavers was owing to the want of
protection, and he did not see why protection should be taken
from the agriculturists because of the manufacturers suffering
from the want of it. It would he better policy to extend it to
the one than to take it from the other, and he was satisfied
that the agriculturists so far from opposing such a proposition
would be most willing to grant to the manufacturers an equal
protection to that which they themselves enjoyed.—( Hear. )
Mr. P. THOMSON would, if the Hon. Member for Old-
ham persevered in his proposition, move the previous question.
One of the propositions of the Hon. Member was a state-
ment of facts which the House, having no knowledge of
them, could not agree to. The other proposition went to re-
commend a itpecies of vague and loose legislature. The Hon.
Gentleman would have it appear that Government was indif-
ferent to the distress which existed amongst the handloom
wearers, and unwilling to endeavour to relieve them, and
that he alone was the person ready to befriend them. He de-
nied, on the part of the House, as well as on the part of the
Government, that any such indifference existed. They were
most willing to attend to, and if possible to relieve, the distress
of those sufferers. But why, if the Hon. Member was their
only advocate, why, instead of vague resolutions, did he not
come forward with some specific remedy, or propose some
measure which would lead to a full discussion of the subject ?
He would then find that there would be no indisposition to
consider his proposition, and, if it was deemed satisfactory, to
adopt it.—( Hear, hear.) Now, how could the Hon. Gentle-
man's plan of taxation be managed by any possibility ? It
would upset all the arrangements of the country, as the taxa-
tion was, in almost all instances indirect.—(Hear, hear,

hear.) Even if the House agreed to the proposition, bow'
could it be carried into effect ? The thing was a mere delusiott.
He (Mr. P. Thomson) would admit that it was his duty to,
look to the interests of these poor people, and he would not
yield to the Honourable Member for Oldham in a desire to
relieve their distresses, but he was not aware of any specific
measure by which that relief could be effected. Indeed, ,
I
was opposed to the Commission which had been appoint_fhde
because he thought it calculated to raise delusive hopes. t
evil which he anticipated had occurred, but the responsibitt y
did not rest on him : it rested on the House. As, howevFr;
the Commission had been appointed he would do all in /!i,)
power to render it as effective as possible, and he hoAssisp!dtai!
report, when received, would prove satisfactory. 0
Commissioners had been appointed, and they would
their communications to the head office as soon as possible
but he could not hold out a hope to the House that the report
would be speedily made, as the objects of their inquiry
scattered through every part of the country. A great proporin
tion of the distress which existed amongst the hand-loom
weavers, arose out of the peculiar nature of their business,
from the easy access to it, more people engaged in the tra,ne
.
than the trade could support. This, and the superior prod
tion of the power-loom, were the chief causes of the distress'
He denied that the evil was owing to foreign cempetition,
the same cause was not followed by the same effect in othher
branches of industry. There was also an advantage to t
that
persons employed in the business of handloom weaving,
they were not, like other labourers, tied down to time, and
were_
they also had the advantage of taking apprentices. It was
the policy that was pursued, he considered, more than any
question of price which had reduced the condition of the
weavers. If a different policy had been pursued trade would
have been extended, and that which was of more importance
than a question of price would have been prevented, namel►
the foreign competitors who had been raised up would 05)t
have existed, and the manufacturers of other countries nowould
not hare been able to supplant those of England in the
market. The effect of improvements in machinery generally:-
he was convinced, was to increase the demand for manual
labour, and that after a considerable improvement had been
made, although it would be attended by temporary ill effects,
the ultimate result would be a greater demand for hands and
labour. On the whole, he was willing to wait the result of
the Commission appointed, and when the report was
made to
adopt a measure upon it.
Mr. WAKLE Y, having listened with great attention tO,.
the Right Hon. Gentleman, the President of the Board °I
Trade, could not but express his astonishment at his arriving,
at so strange a conclusion as that of waiting for the report
arriving,
the Commission. When would that Commission make its
report ? It was appointed in June or July, but it might
last for two or three years in that happy state of incubation,
and the only information they might be able to obtain might
be that they continued setting. He thought the proper plan
would be to take taxes off the industrious portions of the CO
munity, and leave the rich to take care of themselves. Let
them impose a property tax, the most just tax that ever wne
imposed—take the tax from the poor and place it upon pro-
perty. The weavers had been complimented for their for-
bearance under their distress. He could not loin in such
compliments, for he thought that justice could not be obtained
by the people unless they teased that House by petitions, and
that unless they did so they would never get their grievances
remedied.
After a few words from Mr. G. F. YOUNG and Mr. Ht3ls,
Colonel SIBTHORP protested against the doctrine that
the agricultural interest enjoyed the benefit of any unequal
tax. They were as much taxed as any other part of the
community.
Mr. M. ATTWOOD said that the prices were now very
different to what they formerly were; but without entering
into the question of the Corn Laws, it must be remembered
that 50,000,0001. now was equal to 80,000,0001. at the close of
the war.
Mr. LABOUCHE RE wished to recal the attention of the
House to the question really before it. He thought it a mat"
ter of the greatest danger in a branch of the Legislature af-
firming resolutions that might give birth to expectations which
might, from causes unconnected with the question to which
l
they related, be altogether frustrated. Hopes might be raise;
which they could not realise under circumstances not at all
connected with the immediate matter. He thought the terms
of the resolutions pledged the House to such kind of proceed'
ings, as he was sure were of a nature that ninety-nine out of a
hundred of the intelligent class he gave the weavers the credit
of being, would scarcely be able to weave with a serious court"
tenancc when they read them.
Sir C. B. VE RE said that the manner in which the ques-
tion had been put had given an opportunity to open all topics,
however remotely connected with it, and-he thought the Hon.
Gentleman would better consult the interests of the people
whom he was desirous of serving by withdrawing his motion.
Mr. FIELDEN replied. He wished the motion to be put
from the chair, and had no objection to its being negative'
without a division.

Mr. HINDL EY said it was one of too much importincel.°
be dealt with in that manner, and he should press it to a cd"
vision if the Hon. Member for Oldham did not.
Mr. P. THOMSON said that in case he should move the
previous question as an amendment.
The gallery was then cleared for a division. There ar
Fared—
For the original motion ll
Against it
Majority

Every moment spent in abstaining to insist upon
what is right and beneficial to our fellow-creatures, under the
pretence of our feeling personal obligations to any Minister:,
inflicts evil upon millions whose interests we ought to feellt
to be the highest obligation upon us to advance. The moralitf
of those who talk about obligations to any Ministry is despl"
cable. We are entitled to good Government, and no person
can honestly ask that its demand should be foregone, under
the pretence of any personal regard for any maa. We may
admire individual merit and individual exertion, but to say
that our admiration of individuals ought to prevent our re-
quiring those measures to be taken which we consider to he
essential to the a Ivancement of human happiness, appears to
us to be an opinion that cannot be too strongly condemnede'
Bath Guardian.

PASSAGE OF THE SOUND.—According to a table'
published by the Russian Commercial Gazette, 11,956 vessels
passed the Sound from the Ist of January to the Ist of 17°-
vember of the present year, being 1,142 more that during
the preceding year. The following have Eeen the relative
proportion. 3 of the principal flags :

1838. 1837'
English WI
2,811 ...... 3," n
Swedish and Norwegian 2,243
Prussian
Dutch
Mecklenburgh 675
Russian
418
Hanoverian
122
French -

In a village of Picardy, after a long sickness, 5
farmer's wife fell into a lethargy. Her husband was willing'
good man, to believe her out of pain ; and so, according to the
custom of that country, she was wrapped in a sheet, and caif-
ried out to be buried. But, as ill-luck would have it. tr
bearers carried her so near a hedge, that the thorns pierced tbg
sheet, and waked the woman from her trance. Some Yen,r,
after, she died in reality ; and, as the funeral passed along' tf
hush= I would every now and then call out—Not too near the
hedge, not too near the hedge, neighbours.
A tailor following the army, was wounded in till
head by an arrow. When the surgeon saw the wound,. re
bekt°
his patient, that as the weapon had not touched his brain, we;
was no doubt of his recovery. The tailor said—if I had P°--
sessed any brains, I should not have been here.

PATENT LEVER WATCHES'
Price, at T. COX SAVORY'S, 47, Cornhill, Loncloll*
With double-bottom cases SILVER. CASES.
£3 ~
With hunting cases
COLD CASES.
Size for ladies, with elegant gold dial .. . 11 it 0
'''' 14 14,
Size for gentlemen, with enamel dial -
This celebrated construction (the most accurate on the
watch can be made) is now offered at the above price, vir a in
latest improvements, i. e., the detached escapement, jeweneining
four holes, capped, hand to mark the seconds, and nuan'"
power to continue going while winding up.
T. COX SAVORY, ill
Working Silversmith, Goldsmith, and Watchmaker, 47, -°
London.

BIR7'HS. ,„. partY,
On the 23d inst., at No. 6, Upper Wimpole-street, Lau: -
of a daughter. 3quare,
On the 22d inst., Mrs. Oriel, of Alfred-place, Bedf°rd
of
On a dau
the ghter.
24th of July, in the Roslrio de Cucuta, R
Grenada, the lady of Colonel Thomas 11 b ' n'
, an y, of a r.,0 w G.
On the 20th inst., at Shrewsbury, the lady ofthe Be.' *
Barker, of a daughter. of *
On the 23d ' -t
daughter. lady
On the 22d inst., at Nottingham- lace Re ent's-park,. the -
of Major Chase, of daughter. -P
' gthe
On the 23d inst., at the leetory, St. Olave's, Hart-street,
lady of the Rev. J. Letts, of a daughter.
epublic of New

MARRIED
Op the 23d inst., at St. Dunstan's, Charles Alexander Gordon,
Esq.,of Calcutta, to Sophia Louisa, second daughter of William
_Alexander, Esq., of Stepney-green.
On the 23d inst., at St. Marvlebone Rallloll de Bertodano Lo-
pez, Esq., to Henrietta, the eldest daughter
of James Pattison,
Esq., ALP.
On the 23d inst., at Clapham Church, Mr. H. 0. Post, of Clap-
ham-park, to Martha, relict of tl_i_i_l_l_!tLejf.:2l_22.a.sten(_2f±;___---

DIED.
On the 17th inst., in Charterbouse-strham, Esq., M eet, Edward Graham -
22
Be-
tham, Esq., only son of the late R. G. Betaster At
tendant of Newgapatam, East Indies, aged .
On the Ist inst., Mary Ann, widow of
Wm. Rowley, Esq., late
of Green-street, Grosvenor-square.
On the 22d inst., at Brixton, Louis Dubuisson, Esq., of the
Stock Exchange, aged 52.
On the 15th inst., aged 5 months, Frances, infant daughter of
Mr. P. Ramsbotham, Brompton-square.
On the 15th inst., at Lee-place, Kent, Emily, wife of J. Liver-
more, Esq.
Ott the 15th inst., Dirs. Ann Oliver, of St. George's-place,
Knightsbridge, aged 82.
Guildford, Surrey, Elizabeth llerwood,
On the 13th inst., at .
On the 15th inst., aged 11 weeks, Emily, younger
daughter of J. Markby, Esq, aged '24 daughtera
.
J. Stevens, Esq., of Judd-street, Brunswick-square, and Oxford-
street.
of Yo.
London: Printed and Published by AWRDO YOUNG, 0.
112, Strand, at The Sun Office, No. 112, Strtuad, in tho coun
of Middlesex.—Tuesday, December 26, 1837.