The Sun.
London, England, 1863-03-07 00:00:00

Still formed the subject of correspondence between the two
Governments ? yirithoilt rliythe or reason a triple tax was
imposed on all British commerce in Bahin—(hear, hear)—
that enactment was still in existence, and though it had
not been acted on recently, calls were constantly being made
upon the Brazilian government to repeat this unjust and
iniquitous law. In the papers reference was made by Mr.
Christie to intimidation and to the purchase of justice: That
allusion referred to a letter which had fallen into Mr Chris-
tie's hands from an influential officer, between whom and
Mr. Reed a suit was pending, calling on the judge who was
to decide in the suit to decide against Mr. Reed. It was said
that Brazil had abolished the slave trade. He did not want
to go into a history of that question, but he knew that if
credit was to be taken tor thatmeasure it was due, not to the
Brazilian Government, but to the noble lord now at the head
of the Government--((hear, hear)—who had put down the
slave trade there as he had put it down elsewhere. (Cheers.)
What ware the actual facts at this moment ? The Brazilian
Government had entered into distinct agreements that the
negroes now in that country shall be liberated at the end of
a certain period of apprenticeship. That period had elapsed
some years since, and, notwithstanding the remonstrances
of the British Government, those negroes were still used as
slaves ; it was impossible to obtain a list of them, or to trace
what had become of them. These were some of the causes
of complaint existing against Brazil. Were the British
Government to stand with their arms folded ? Were they
to rest satisfied with the plausible and, he must add, disin-
genuous notes of the Brazilian Minister? Would those who
had been robbed, and the relatives of those who had been
murdered, rest satisfied with such an explanation ? He ven-
tured to say no Government could have acted otherwise than
her Majesty's Government had done. The noble lord oppo-
site had quoted a paragraph from a well known legal autho-
rity, Dr. Phillimore, who, it was well known, was the legal
adviser of the Government, and as the Government acted
on his opinion, it was likely to be in favour of reprisals in this
case. Allusion had been made to the strong and the weak.
Nothing could be more reprehensible than for a strong Go-
vernment unnecessarily to use its strength against a weak
State, and according to the noble lord we had the reputation
all over the world of bullying small Governments. (Hear,
hear.) But was it not astounding to hear from his noble
friend opposite that there was not a great power in Europe
which we had not insulted and bullied within the last 18
months. We had written threateningly to France, insult-
ingly to 1; enmark, to Russia likewise, in fact, according to
the hon. gentleman, there was not a great State which we
had not insulted and bullied in turn.
Mr. S. FITZ GER ALD —I nsul ted

Mr. LAYARD—WeII, to which we had not used strong
language. The noble lord opposite said we would not have
acted similarly towards the United States. But he forgot
what had taken place not long ago. (Cheers.) He did not
wish to travel over the face of the globe, like hon. gentle-
men opposite, but any reproach with regard to the attitude
of this country towards the United States certainly did not
fall justly on the present Government. It was a misfortune
in some cases to be a weak State, but a small State, relying
on its weakness, occasionally acted in a manner that a stronger
State would not adopt. There were other cases, and per-
haps the present was one of them, where a morbid sensitive-
ness on the score of dignity existed, forgetting that, after
all, true dignity lay in doing what was right and just,
(Hear.) If the Brazilian Minister, instead of writing all
the notes which he had done and carping at all the little
mistakes and errors that might have crept into Mr. Chris-
tie's statements, had boldly done what he possibly could
towards effecting justice, he fully believed the Government
would have accepted his endeavours. (Hear.) It had been
asked what would have been the conduct of the British Go •
vernment if a similar occurrence had taken place inEngland.
In 1850 an Austrian vessel was wrecked on the coast of
Galway, and plundered by the inhabitants of an island which
he believed enjoyed rather a bad reputation for such acts.
Every measure was taken by the Government to punish
these persons. They were tried, interpreters were brought
from a distance, and everything was done to secure that
justice should be done. The grand jury threw out the bill,
from some legal flaw. His noble friend now at the head of
the Government thereupon immediately sent to the Austrian
ambassador a cheque for £540. (Hear.) In that case there
had been a trial, and the Government might fairly have
sheltered themselves behind what they had done. But
suppose that in the case of this Austrian vessel the stipen-
diary magistrate had plundered the wreck, that the coro-
ner with an armed escort had resisted all attempt at inquiry,
what would then have beat the responsibility of the
British Government? He declared that if these facts were
proved the responsibility of the Brazilian Government was
fully established. The hon. member had cited the cases
of the Blanche, the Pearl, and vessels that had
attempted to run the blockade, and had asked why
the Government had not interfered in those cases. Because
there were legal prize courts in the United States before whicb
these cases could be taken, and her Majesty's Government
accepted their decisions when they were just, as they gene-
rally were. Did the motion mean anything or nothing ? He
should be sorry to see it carried, and believed that if the
motion were pressed to a division it would be successfully
opposed. If, on the contrary, the mail, of which the hon.
gentleman spoke, should carry out to South America the
decision of that house in favour of the motion, a shout of
triumph would be heard, every debtor would hail with joy
the establishment of the principle of non-payment of debts,
and every creditor would sit in sackcloth and ashes. Such
a decision would exercise the most fatal influence abroad
on British interests and lives. Her Majesty's Govern-
ment regretted with the hon. gentleman that a misunder-
standing had occurred between the two countries, and they
were equally desirous with him that friendly relations
should prevail between Great Britain and a Power which
had peculiar claims upon our respect from its great wealth,
the magnitude of its resources, and the intelligence of its
inhabitants. But her Majesty's Government had a great,
solemn, and peremptory duty to perform,—viz., to protect
the property and lives of her Majesty's subjects. He be-
lieved that the country would support the Government in
performing that duty. It was because he thought that Bri-
tish lives and British property would be imperilled through-
out the world if this motion were carried that he now called
upon the house to reject iz. (Cheers.)
Mr. COBDEN—I must say I never remember a debate in
which the speakers have so far wandered from the question
before the house. I will say very little at this late hour, but
what I say shall be to the purpose. Sir, I listened to the
speech of the hon. and learned gentleman (Mr. Collier) who
led off in this debate in defence of the Government. He
stood behind me, and I could not see him, but I could have
fancied that he had his cloak and wig on. (Laughter.) In
fact, on one or two occasions he thought so too, and ad-
dressed us as " Gentlemen of the jury." (Laughter.)
I listened to him, on the other hand, with something of the
feeling with which a practised juryman regards the speech
of a counsel who opens a cases. He knows he is speaking
from a brief, that he is pledged to nothing, and that he does
but follow his instructions. (Hear, hear.) I am in this
difficulty with regard to this case, that I do not believe in
the competency of the witness, for we have in this case only
one witness to the main point at issue. Mr. Christie, our
representative in Brazil, tells us, in page 71, that " all thtit
is known as to the plunder and all the circumstances sug-
gesting suspicion of murder are set forth in Mr. Vereker's
despatches." Now, Ido not accept Mr. Consul Vereker as
a sufficient witness in this case. I do not know whether
hon. members have read these despatches from the begin.
ning, as I have done, but from Mr. Vereker's first letter of
June, 1861, to the last, before I ever heard of what has
since transpired, I was struck with the morbid suspi•
ciousness which pervades Mr. Vereker's letters. For
instance, in announcing the first receipt of the intelligence
of the disaster, his despatch to the Board of Trade is full of
suspicion and excitement. He seems to have viewed the
wreck as a sort of conspiracy against him. He takes ex-
ception to the way in which the rumour reaches him, as if
a wreck happened periodically in his district, and as if it
were the duty of the police delegate to come to Rio Grande
once a month or once a quarter with news of this kind. He
also complains that the police delegate does not give him all
the information about the wreck that might be expected
from him. Mr. Vereker then tries to ascertain if the vessel
wrecked is a British vessel. He finds papers, and supposes
that somebody wanted to keep them from him. He gets
evidence that it is a British vessel, and then he applies to the
municipal judge of the place to accompany him to the scene.
He is obliged to confess the promptitude and frankness with
which the municipal judge agreed to accompany him with
an escort of soldiers and armed Customhouse officers. They
arrive at night on the second day at the house of the magis-
trate Soares, the very person who had reported the wreck to
him at Rio Grande. He arrives in the evening with his
armed escort, and finds in the house two young ladies, the
daughters of this magistrate. Tho party are received with
some reluctance, the magistrate being from home. (Hear.)
This disinclination to receive them is then put down as a
confirmation of the suspicion that Suarez has had something
to do with the robbery. Next morning Mr. Vereker goes
to the scene of the wreck and finds four bodies. He wants
to have them removed. He sees two officers talking, and
has his suspicions about that. Then he finds that the escort
are not strong enough to compel the neighbourhood to agree
to the inquiry he desires to make. He then searches the
houses for plunder from the wreck, and when he finds none
he suspects that the stolen property may be probably found
in the adjoining thickets. He returns to Rio and demands
that an inquest shall be held on the four bodies. They are
in a state of sad decomposition, but they are brought in by
an armed escort. An inquest is held—the medical men at-
tend, and they pronounce that these are the corpses of un-
fortunate persons who were suffocated by drowning. This
Ifinding only confirms Mr. Consul Vereker's suspiciousness.
And this condition of Mr. Vereker's mind is all important
in this case. It appears in all his correspondence. In ade
spatch. dated Dec. 11 Mr. Vereker has occasion to speak of
the sub-delegate of Tahim, who, as was his duty, had to
, collect some remnants of the wreck and restore them to the
owners, and he thus speaks of that officer :
" The latter had to collect such goods as he could in benefit
of the Customs, and yet most of the goods which he de-
livered to me had been taken out of their cases, and there is
no real doubt but that those cases were broken by his order,
and the goods of least value given up. In making this
statement, according to my conviction, I feel it right to say
I cannot legally prove it."
(Hear, hear.) Yes; but that is the tone throughout the
whole of this correspondence. In the account given of
the inquest there seems to be some little misunderstanding
respecting the Portuguese word which has been translated