The Sun.
London, England, 1839-04-24 00:00:00

NATIONAL CONVENTION.
(TUESDAY.)

On the motion of Mr. SKEVINGTON, Mr. Warden,
Delegate from Balton, took the chair.
The Secretary having read over the proceedings of
yesterd,y,
Mr. NEESOM begged to introduce to the Convention
Mr. Joseph Williams as the new Member for East Sur-
rey and Lambeth.
Mr. HARTWELL begged to enter his protest against
Mr. Williams being received as the Delegate for East
Surrey and Lambeth ; he was duly elected to represent
East Surrey alone, and not Lambeth.
Mr. O'CONNOR was sure that Mr. Williams would do
his duty by those who sent him there, no matter which
of the places lie represented.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. NhEsom was present at the meeting held yester-
day on Kennington-common, and he distinctly stated
that Mr. Williams was elected by a large majority for
both places.
Dr. FLETCHER would say that it was of very great
importance that the particular place which a Delegate
represented should be named. He thought the public
notice calling the meeting which went to elect a Delegate
was enough to decide the election ; but it was necessary
to show that this notice had been distributed properly.
Hear, hear.)
Mr. O'CoNrion—The meeting being a public one
was prima facie evidence of its being a proper one to
make an election.
Mr. MILLS—It seemed to him that the Convention
was placed in very peculiar circumstances, by one Mem-
ber introducing a new Delegate as representing a par-
ticular district, and another Member protesting against
the .eligibility of the. Delegate so introduced. He
thought their best course would be to appoint a Select
Committee to investigate the subject.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. O'CONNOR protested against such a line of con-
duct being adopted by the Convention as Mr. Mills
recommended. There was not, of all the bad practices
indulged in by the House of Commons, one that de-
served so much reprehension as the manner in which
they decided on objected returns of Members to serve

in Parliament ; and it was, he thought, the duty of the
Convention not to imitate them in this part of their con-
duct. If a Committee was to be appointed it should be
a Committee of the whole House.—(llear, hear.) He
also thought that one meeting held in a particular place
could not elect a Delegate for two places. He thought
fiat Mr. Williams would be satisfied to take his seat for
East Surrey alone.
Mr. LOVETT said the circumstances were really these.
Mr. Westerton, a gentleman of talent and of true pa-
triotism, had by great exertion got up in the neighbour-
hood of Wandsworth, Kennington, Putney, and the
surrounding districts, Associations for the purpose of
carrying out the subjects of the Charter—which Asso-
ciations had organized the tratlesmen, principally dyers
—had obtained many signatures to the petition, and
proceeded to collect the rent with great success—and
finally, resolved to bold a meeting for the purpose of
electing a Delegate to the Convention for that district.
—( Hear, hear.) The Democratic Association marched

to this meeting yesterday in thousands, and op-
posed with success the election of Mr. Westerton,
who was supported by the people who knew him well.
He thought it would form a bad precedent, if it
were allowed that Mr. Williams should be permitted to
take his seat as Member for both places. The same line
of conduct was about being adopted by the Democratic
Association in Stepney and/other places, where elections
were purposed to be had during the ensuing week.
Mr. O'CoNNoR said in his opinion the Convention
was bound to receive Mr. Williams as the Delegate
of the Working Men of East Surrey—he appeared in
the dress of a working man, and he hoped to God the
men of SpitalEelds would send them a Delegate without
either shoes or stockings. Ile therefore moved that Mr.
Williams be received as a Member for East Surrey.
Mr. NsEsou seconded the motion.
Mr. HARTWELL did not oppose the reception of Mr.
Williams for East Surrey, he merely protested against
his being received as the Member for Lambeth. He
was elected for the London districts in an open meeting,
which was called by circulars distributed all round
London, and until he was found fault with by a meet-
ing as freely called, he would continue to think himself
the representative of the working men of London, not-
withstanding the under workings of the Democratic
Association. He therefore would oppose the reception
of Mr. Williams as Member for Lambeth, and lie
would, on the same ground, any of these new elections
for the Metropolitan districts.
Dr. FLETCHER said the Convention ought to have
the credentials of the member who had been introduced.
He had been introduced as Member for Lambeth, and
when that was called in question, it was at once changed
for East Surrey. Ho thought it was a matter of
much importance, for he suspected that there was a
foul conspiracy afloat to swamp the Convention, and he
further suspected that Mr. Williams had joined it. He
a I heard him say that the people should meet in hun-
dreds or one hundred and twenties, and choose their
Delegates from the Democratic Association, and then
they might swamp the Convention. His constituents
were determined that they would not be controuled by
any portion of the people of London.—(Cheers.) Ac-
cording to the Democrat of last week, it appeared that
they had now Jacobin Clubs, which were trying to
overawe the Convention. He hated all such mockery
of the French Revolution.—(Cheers.) There was no
feature in it which was so very gratifying to the
people of England. He, if they were to be con-
trolled, would like to see the names of the As-
sociation—to know their residences—and how they
got their livelihood. It was their duty to watch over
the elections. The present Member had been intro-
duced for one place—that was given up when questioned,
and another selected. The election having been called
in question, it was impossible that they could receive
him without his credentials.
Mr. CARDO said that London was not represented
in districts.

Dr. FLETCHER explained.
Mr. SANKEY said that about -a fortnight ago it had
been specially stated that a meeting would take place
an Kennington Common, for the purpose of electing a
Delegate, and Lambeth was one of the places stated,
and therefore he thought Mr. Williams should be re-
ceived as Member for Lambeth, as more than ten days
notice had been given in this case.
Mr. AlooltE rose to move the adjournment of the con-
sideration of this return until the bills convening the meet-
ing should be produced, and the credentials obtained. If
the bills say that tha meeting was convened for the
purpose of electing a Delegate for East Surrey, and for
Lambeth, then they were bound to receive Mr. Wil-
hams as such, but if the bills mentioned East Surrey
only, then he could only sit for East Surrey ; he ex-
pressed deep regret that Dr. Fletcher should suffer
himself to be taken out of his course by those who, in
comparison with himself, were mere pigmies.

Mr. FEARGUS O'CONNOR would withdraw his pro-
position for the purpose of seconding Mr. Moore's
amendment, and he merely did so to comply with a
point of form. They had important duties to perform,
and ought not to let themselves be led away by techni-
nicalities. With regard to what had been said about
Jacobins Clubs, he knew nothing of the existence of
such Clubs, but if Jacobin Clubs were capable of infusing
knowledge and energy into the Convention, he would
as soon that knowledge and that energy should come
from Jacobin Club as from any other club. He was
sorry that any Member of the Convention should dread
any infusion of democracy whether from a Jacobin Club or
a Democratic Association. He did not dread the intro-
ductions f any one possessing over-zeal. There was
judgme►.,. sufficient in the Convention to soften any
over-zeal. He preferred over-zeal to over-caution, which
was like a spark smouldering among embers. It was not
an uncommon thing for the people of one district to
attend elections in another. The Preston people had
attended at Blackburn. All he asked was, whether the
Democratic Association was an Association of the peo-
ple ? and if so, they had a right to attend that meeting.
He himself had not been aware, until yesterday, that
the election was to take place, and had never heard the
name of Mr. 'Williams until this day. He considered
that his election was valid,"and was sorry the Convention
dreaded an infusion of democracy. Ho hoped the De-
mocratic Association, whenever an election was held in
London, would go with all the force they could muster,
and hold up their hands.—(Cheers, and cries of " No.")
If he thought that that Association had held secret
clubs and committees for the purpose of taking advan-
tage of the Convention, be (Mr. O'C.) would take his
name off the rolls of the Association, if he thought they
practised in the dark that which they dared not avow in
public. There were many members of that Association
present who could bear witness that they had never
held any conversation with him on political subjects,
and they would show that it was unlikely they had
adopted any secret proceeding on this subject. Dr.
Fletcher had said that those who returned him were
able to write their names and point out their places of
abode ; what was this but Household Suffrage ?
(Cheered

Mr. SKEVINGTON deniod that it was Universal Suf-
frage to allow bodies of men to perambulate the country
and control elections.

Mr. CARDO supported Mr. Moore's amendment. The
Convention had no power to refuse Mr. Williams. The
Democratic Association had last night held a meeting
in Smithfield, supporting the Charter, and had thus
carried the movement into the City.
Mr. LOVETT said that it was an important point that
had been alluded to by the last speaker, because Tories
might be sent into the Convention which would destroy
their union. On union their lives depended, and
persons might obtain admittance who, by their speeches,
might place their lives in jeopardy, and he thought
they had a right to interfere with those sent here in
opposition to the objects of the Convention.
Mr. NEESOM regretted the course the discussion had
taken.

Mr. MILL' supported Mr. Moore's amendment.
Dr. FLETCHER explained.
Mr. BUSSEY contended that Mr. Williams had a
right to sit until evidence of the invalidity of his elec-
tion had been produced by the objecting parties.
Mr. WHITTLE agreed with Mr. Bussey. He had