The Sun.
London, England, 1839-12-21 00:00:00

" No, no.") Let them look at the party who had
been agitating this question, and then let them ascertain
their chance of effecting any good or not, as a party,
and especially upon this question.—(Hear and laugh-
ter.) With much that had fallen from Mr. Phillips
he agreed ; but he did not drew the same conclusion
from the same premises ; and he would always have
them bear in mind that when this party spoke to them
of free trade in corn—(Groans)—that we were
prevented from selling our manufacturers abroad, in
consequence of the high price of corn caused by the
Corn-laws—(Hear, hear, and cheers)—it was non-
sense to understand this in any other sense than this,
that were the Corn-laws abrogated wages would be re-
duced.—(Cheers and groans, and " No, no.") It was
downright nonsense to talk in any other way, for he
should like to know how a manufacturer was to sell his
produce for less unless it cost him less, and how it could
cost him less unless the difference was in the price of
labour.—(Cheers and hisses.) Then, again, he stated
boldly and distinctly, this, that so long as we could have
moderate prices, our best customers were our home cus-
tomers.—(Much hissing, laughter, and confusion.) All
their expenditure consisted in the productions of
the country in some way or other—(Cheers and
)
laughter)—either in agriculture, the produce of the la-
bourer in the country, or in manufacturers ; whereas if
' they were to buy a given quantity of manufactures, he
could prove that this would not cause so great an ex-
change of manufactures as would be demanded for
home consumption.—(Roars of laughter and confusion.)
Then again, supposing that instead of hiring agricultu-
ral labourers in their own business, they were thrown
out of employment by a free trade in corn—(Hear)—
he would ask them whether they would not then bring
agricultural labourers into- competition for employment
with the manufacturing operatives, and thus reduce
wages ?—(Hear, hear.) He would ask whether the
Corn-law agitators had brought such a Bill as this into
their account ? Was it of no consequence that corn
should be cultivated in Ireland ? Was it not better
that they should find employment there than come into
competition with the labourers in the market of this
country ?—(A voice, " Drop the rents.") Then on
this subject he should like to ask them what was Mr.
1 Shell's opinion—he who bad recently been made the
Vice-President of the Board of Trade, on what was
certainly deeply connected with this business ? Whe-
ther his appointment to the office he now held was in
consequence of that speech he would not say, but
he knew that it was not long after it.—(Hear,
hear.) And then Lord Melbourne strongly objected to
it too.—(Loud cries of " Question, question, and no
politics." So much as to the disposition of the Govern-
ment. Then as to the probability of their co-operation.
Was it not important that we should have a Govern-
ment that would look to Wales, and that would look
to Ireland ?--( Laughter and hisses.) So much for our
own position. Let them look abroad to the East and
the West--(Loud cries of " Peterloo, Peterloo")—and
see the support that was given to our commerce. Let
them look to the river Plate ; were we not excluded
from the important traffic there—(lmmense cheering
and laughter)—and why ? Because we had an incompe-
tent Government.—(Groans.) Now, he thought he had
gone through every point in his amendment—(Laughter)
—and he begged leave formally to propose it.—(Cheers,
laughter, and groans.)
Mr. WM. READ rose to second the resolution pro-
posed by his friend Mr. Birley.—( A voice, " Get down,
you are as bad as your master.") He thought that
every important topic, like the one they were called
there to discuss, as affecting, and that deeply too, the
most important interests of the nation at large, ought
at all events to be dispassionately considered, and as
most materially affecting the future income of the labour-
ing classes, he thought that they were more essen-
tially interested in the question—(Loud cheers,—and
that they ought to demand a patient and fair hear-
ing on both sides of the question.—( Hear, and cheers.)
He should net have taken the liberty of appearing be.
fore them there it he did not feel it to be Ids duty, as a
man engaged in trade, to denounce so infamous a fallacy
as that by which they had on that occasion been at-
tempted to be hoodwinked.—!Cheers and hisses.) Ile
reierred to a bill which had been posted on the wall.
It was stated in that bill by those who had issued it,
what was to be the great watch-wof d of the anti-Corn-
law men. It was this : they were to "read, mark,
and learn."—( Loud cries of " Question, question," much
groaning, hissing-, tattering, and confusion.) But the
writers of that placard had' taken care to omit that they
were to " inwardly digest" Eiglish corn.—(Groans,
and cries of " Question.") It was stated in that placard
that our population—(Much interruption)—was increas-
ing annually half a million a year.—(Laughter.) But
they did not at the same time tell us how much land
there was every year being brought into a state of tillage
in order to meet this very difficulty. They stated tfiat
the land of England did not increase one inch in 100
years, whereas the public and official returns made by
Government proved that every year there were many
thousands of acres redeemed from waste, and capable of
yielding corn for the support of the increasing popula-
ton.—( Cheers and groans.) Mr Phillips lied admit-
ted—(Great interruption)—Mr. Phillips had admitted
what must inevitably confound the whole question. He
admitted two things, the first of which was that wages
would be diminished, that they would sink—inevitably
sink—(Cheers and' groans)—and though they might
use bread enough to save to the amount of Is. 6d.
a-week, their wages would be reduced to from 3s. to
45., so that this part of the subject was a mere fallacy,
a rank staring faliacy, which only required to be
brought to the ears of Englishmen for them not to see
it—(Roars of laughter)—in a moment. Mr. Phillips
admitted, too, that there might he and there must be an
increased demand for labour. What did that mean but
that the man who laboured sixteen hours a-day would
be compelled to labour eighteen hours a day for
the same amount of wages.—( Hear, hear.) It was
impossible to deny the inferenee—(Roars of laughter.)
There was not a greater fallacy put forth in this
question then that the present distress was caused by
the unfavourable operation of the Corn-laws. Had we
not the Corn-laws in 1835 ? They put out a state-
ment that this distress was occasioned by sending abroad
machinery, and now those consistent gentlemen were
assigning the distress to the Corn-laws alone.—(Groans
and uproar.) He contended that their wages must be
broken down to Continental prices. They must be so
to enable them to compete successfully with the foreigner
on the Continent. They were now obliged to have a
certain amount of capital invested in trade ; let their
wages be broken down, and the same capital would go
proportionately further. Therefore it was an argument
of the rich in favour of the poor—(Cheers and laughter)
—it was solely in favour of the rich—(Renewed
laughter)—and against the poor. But then, again, her
Majesty's Ministers were very decided on this question
—and against it..--(" No, no," " No politics," and " Off,
off.") I have great pleasure in seconding the amendment,
being satisfied that the more the question is examined
in the face of the Corn-law agitators themselves, the
more the public will see it in its true light, and throw it
into utter contempt.—(Much laughter, hisses, and
cheers.)
___

Mr. JAMES `Yaws then stepped forward to move a
a second amendment, which he thought would have a
tendency to reconcile a great number of jarring inte-
rests ; and at all events he thought that if his amend-
ment were carried, there would be no fear of a repeal
of the Corn-laws. He would read it to them, and
afterwards address to them a few wards upon the sub-
ject of it. It was—
" That this meeting is of opinion that no permanent
relief will be afforded, nor the distress under which the
people of this country are labouring be effectually removed,
till the taxes on corn, malt, hops, sugar, tea, coffee, kc.
—( Cheers)—and all other necessaries of life, be re-
pealed—( Loud cheers)—and the revenue reduced to what
it was in 1792."

It was his opinion, that without a resolution of this kind
were carried, and without Parliament did something to
the amount of his amendment, that the repeal of the
Corn-laws alone would not give that relief which Mr.
Phillips and his friends seeme to expect.—(Cheers and
hisses, and " One thing at a time.") Some person
called out " One thine at a time." He had not the
least objection to get one thing at a time, but his opinion
was, that if they did not ask something along with that
" One thing," they would not get half a thing.—(Cheers.)
He petitioned aeainst the passing of the Corn-laws.
They were passed contrary to the wishes of the people
of England, but they were there now, and could they
get them off? He would tell them that by adopting
his amendment they would, because they would then
' take the whole of the agricultural and middle classes
with them.--cLee_
r and " No, no")—but let them go
only for taking off the taxes n corn, and then they
would find that the whole country would set them and
the manufacturers and their .
petition at defiance, as they
did last year ; and the House of Commons would do so
too, because a great portion of the constituency had not
joined in the agitation. Now let them not be twittering
the thing away in the shameful manner they did last
year ; if they were to do anything let it be effectually
done. They must have millions of taxes reduced. If
they were to compete with foreigners they must be
placed upon the same principle on witich they were
placed in reference to general taxation.—(Great
cheering.) They would beat us, do as We would. If
we only repealed the Corn-laws, then would come
down the grinding of the peoples wages ; then would
come down the shopocracy, and ultimately the richer
classes would get into the °Gazette to a fearful extent.
(A voice—" They are in already.") He granted they
were ; and why was it so ? Because the present system
was all a system of expediency. If they would come for-
ward fairly and add these things to their petition, they
would then have a united people alcrig- with them—.
(Hear.) If these eentlemen were really sincere in
their wishes to benefit the poor—and he would not say
that they were not sincere—but if they were really sin-
cere, let them show their sincerity by adding to their
petition the matter mentioned in his amendment, and
then no man can say but what they really did wish the
working classes to be raised to the station in society to
which from their industry and ingenuity, and everything
else connected with them, they were so r:eldy entitled.
They were now screwed down to the lowest point. Ile
would never oppose the repeal of any tax, but he would I
vote for the repeal of all taxes upon labour, and every

indirect tax was a tax upon the labouring man. He
would now leave his amendment in their hands. If
any gentleman felt disposed to second it he should feel
much obliged to him. He hoped they would take the
thing seriously to heart, and remember that at a future
day if they did not vote for a reduction of taxation they
would have to repent of their supineness.—(Cheers.)
The Rev. Mr. SCHOFIELD said he had great pleasure
in seconding the amendment upon this question of the
repeal of the Corn-law as now read by his friend Mr.
Wroe. Individually, along with Mr. Wroe, he was a
repealer, and his opinion was, the sooner it was repealed
the better—(Cheers.) In that let them be united at
all events.—(Cheers.) He also would wish to point
out to them one special item in which they were all
equally interested, and that was, when they had got the
bread they should have butter to it. Now, the duty
on butter was 251,6651. Why not then take the tax
off butter as well as from the bread ? The duty which
corn produced seemed only to be 186,0001. But there
was another thing. He was no drinker of malt liquor
himself ; he was a teetotaler—(Laughter)—but let
them look to the malt. If they would have beer, have
it good and have it cheap. Now, then, the duty on
malt was 4,982,0801.! What was that to the duty on
corn?—(Laughter.) Let them, then, go unitedly to-
gether for the repeal of the whole. He should wish
that the amendment should be united with the Corn-
law motion as one, and then Members would be able
to support it in the House of Commons, as they had
sent their petition from a united people. Let them be
one at all events in the repeal of all taxes. They went
for the repeal of taxes ; and if they were to have a tax
at all, let it be an equitable tax—a tax upon property.
A loud cry was now made for Mr. Cobden, where-
upon,_

-
Alderman RICHARD COBDEN, Esq., presented him-
self, and was received with renewed shouts of applause,
waving of hats, and clapping of hands. An attempt was
made by the Tories to hiss, upon which another burst of
cheering was sent forth, which completely overwhelmed
the noise of the opposing party. When the noise of the
applause had subsided, Mr. Cobden said—Fair play,
and nothing more, was what he asked from all parties.
—(Cheers.) As there might be many present who were
not very well acquainted with the present position of
this question, he would just briefly tell them how he
thought it now stood. There was a motion before them
declaring that the Corn-laws were contrary to the laws
of nature, and to the designs of Providence.—(Cheers.)
There was an amendment before them declaring that we
should not petition for a repeal of the C‘orn-laws because
her Majesty's Ministers were unworthy of their confi-
dence, and they had a further amendment before them
which declared that they ought to add the articles of
malt, tea, coffee, tobacco, soap, candles, and all the rest
of it, to the original resolution. Now he should say but
a very few words upon these questions, and if they would
be kind enough to hear him without interruption, they
would the sooner get home to their families.—(Hear.)
Mr. READ (the tobacconist)—Tobacco was not men-
tioned.—(Laughter.)
Mr. COBDEN—Now, then, as to Mr. Birley's amend-
ment. He should not say a word respecting it on
this occasion, because as his remarks had reference to
what took place in another quarter, he invited him to
meet him at the next meeting of the Chamber of Com=
merce, and he would be prepared there to meet him.—
(Cheers.) Now, although, according to the state-
ment of Mr. Birley, Ministers were not much inclined
to go far with theca in effecting a repeal of these laws,
was that a reason why they should remain still while
these laws, according to the admission of the gentle-
men themselves, were undermining our trade ?
(Cheers.) Because Mr. Shiel was made the President
of the Board of Trade—and he looked upon it as a
mockery to place a man so completely infatuated on
that point at least, in such an office—but because Mr.
Slid was advanced to that post, still were they as mer-
chants, as citizens, and as men, to forget their duties to
themselves and to those around them ?—(Hear, and
cheers.) He should not condescend to say another
word upon the amendment moved by Mr. Birley.—
(Heae, and laughter.) He left it in their hands to do
with it as he knew they would, for he knew perfectly well
that they would go with the Chamber of Commerce for
the total and unconditional repeal of these laws.—
(Deafening cheering.) But Mr. Wroe and the Rev.
Gentleman who had succeeded him had added other
articles to the original question, and he should be as
glad as they could be to see the taxes reduced upon
every article they bad mentioned, and placed upon
property as it ought to be.—(Loud cheering.) But he
would endeavour to show that Mr. Wroe and the gen-
tleman who succeeded him, laboured under considerable
misapprehension as to the effect of these laws. Mr.
Wroe had told them that the duty on corn was
only 180,000/. during the last year. That
however was merely the duty received by the State for
the benefit of the country.—(Hear.) But how much
had been put into the pockets of the land-owning aris-
tocracy ?—(Cheers.) Let them bear in mind that they
had every one of them an interest in considering this.
Let them bear in mind that the Corn-laws were imposed
not for the purposes of revenue, but for the exclusive
benefit of the proprietors of the acres of this country.—
( Immense cheering.) Other taxes had been reduced.
In 1810 our taxes on gold—and he mentioned this to
satisfy those gentlemen who had scruples on this subject
—our taxation on gold was 31. 155., and at the present
moment it was 31. 17s. There had been an immense
amount of taxation taken off : but were the labouring
classes better off than they were in 1810 ?—(No, no)—
and if not why was it, when this immense amount of
taxation bad been reduced ? Why simply because the
very same hands that took the tax off property had
thrown the whole burden of taxation upon the bread of
the poor.—( Hear, and cheers.) They had passed laws
which should prevent the importation of corn, until it
had arrived at so dear a price that it was quite beyond
the means of the poor man to buy it.—(Hear, hear.)
It was estimated that the produce of this country
was about 50,000,000 of quarters ; and it was esti•
mated that the meat, the sheep, the pork, beef, aad
other commodities which were produced from the land,
and.which:the land supported,would amount to 50,000,000
of quarters more, making what was equivalent to
one hundred millions of quarters of grain raised from
our soil. At the most moderate computation, suppose
it were Bs. per quarter upon that amount of corn of
foreign growth—until that amount of Bs. per quarter
upon these one hundred millions of quarters had found
its way into the pockets of the landlords, the corn of
the foreigner could not be almitted into this county.—
(Immense and deafening cheers, which were several times
renewed.) Well, Bs. per quarter on one hundred mil-
lions of quarters was forty millions sterling per year;
and he maintained, in the face of those great political
economists,, Mr. Read and Mr.:Birley, that the creditors
of this country, composed chiefly of the working class,
paid forty millions sterling every year into the pockets
of the landlord.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Now, this was a
reason, and a strong one too, why this tax ought to be
taken off, that the labouring man might have cheap
bread for himself and his family, which constituted
three-fourths of the food which they consumed.—( Hear,
hear.) They were told that the working classes in the
agricultural districts would go with them if they" would
go for a repeal of the duties on sugar, tea, coffee, soap,
and other luxuries.—(Laughter.) There was not
one man present in that room who would repeat that
laugh when he read to them a few brief words, written
by an agricultural labourer in the county of Sussex, ad-
dressed to the Poor-law Guardians, describing the de-
plorable state of himself and his family. He (Mr. Cob-
den) was a Sussex man, and he would vouch for the
accuracy of every word in this report. He would read
the letter to them, and they should then judge whether
soap was a luxury to the poor agricultural labourer :
To the Right Honourable the Commissioners of the New