The Sun.
London, England, 1830-03-17 00:00:00

authority, (VIM which he was prepared to show that these
who concluded that the distress in our agricultural and
manufacturing districts was general through the country
were greatly mistaken. He was prepared to show that
the objections made to the expressions contained in the
Speech from the Throne, as being more partial representa-
tions of the condition of the country thane the facts war-
ranted, were without foundation ; and the more this sub-
ject was investigated, the more the inquiry was pursued,
and the snore information was received on it, the snore
Hon. Members would find that the expressions used in that
Speech were borne out by the fact. It would hardly be
said—(Here some symptoms of impatience were evinced
by several Hon. Members, who seemed anxious for the
closing of the discussion.)—He begged the attention of
Hon. Members for a short time while he briefly stated the
grounds on which he had formed his opinion that there did
not exist that general distress which some Hon. Members
were disposed to believe. In the situation which he had the
honour to hold, communications daily reached him with re-
spect to the condition of several important manufacturing and
agricultural districts, from parties who had the best oppor-
tunities of judging of the facts which they stated, and of
coming to the most correct conclusion as to the inferences
to be drawn from them. Now he would state to the
House the substance of a few of the communications of this
sort which had reached him. Here the Right Hon. Gent.
read some extracts from accounts which he had received as
to the situation of the eastern and western parts of Scot-
land, and also as to the condition of some of the great ma-
nufacturing towns in the north and north-west of Eng-
land. The principal of these accounts were sent by Mr.
Kirkman Finlay, of Glasgow, and Mr. Pym and Mr.
Gott, of Leeds. They were to this effect, that in the east
coast of Scotland, the employment of the best class of
workmen was nearly the same as in 1826, but with respect
to the lower classes, it was more variable ; but on the whole
there was as much general employment in the whole line
from the Forth to Aberdeen, as at any period since 1825.
The accounts from Glasgow and the west coast were
equally satisfactory. It was stated that trade was gradually
improving, and that the weavers were generally employed,
and in some cases at an advance of wages. He (Mr.
Herries) spoke this in the hearing of many gentlemen from
that country, who, if he were wrong, would no doubt set I
him right. In the western coast of Scotland, then, he
would say, according to the accounts he had received, there
was inure appearance of reviving trade than there had been
last year, or for many years back. Mr. Finlay, whose
name would be a sufficient authority for what be stated,
went on to observe, that along that whole line of coast he
had mentioned, there was no depression either of the manu-
facturing er the agricultural interest ; that agricultural
rents were paid, and that the condition of the two classes
might, on the whole, be stated as satisfactory. The ac-
counts from places more south,—to come to Liverpool,—it
wag not to be expected that in a place the trade of which
was so extensive and various, some depression must I
not be felt, when any degree of general depression existed ;
but with that allowance he would confidently state that the I
general state of Liverpool was by no means one of distress,
and in this he was sure he should be borne out by the tes-
timony of his two Hon. Friends the Members for that
town. But to come to the great manufacturing towns.
He would take for instance that of Leeds, and on the au-
thority the best in that town—that of Mr. Gott—he could
state that the payment of wages was higher than fat some
time past. This statement was confirmed by that of Mr.
Pym, who stated, that having been fifty years engaged in
the manufacture of fine woollen cloth, and considering the
situation of those he employed, he could say that it was
never better than at present. There was not, it was true,
so much employment for children, as there was not so
much doing in coarse yarns, but the employment of men
and women continued as good as ever. He (Mr. Pym)
employed 290 men, 87 women, and 57 children. Now
another testimony as to the state of Leeds, he could state
from answers given to queries sent round by an lion. Mem-
ber, who diligently sought for information as to the condi-
tion of the people in several parts of the country. Several
of those were sent to Leeds ; and the 13th query was—
" 'ro what do you attribute the depression of the working
classes at Leeds ? " and the answer to it was—" There is
no unusual depression amongst the working classes here."
—(Hear, hear.)—Another account from Leeds showed,
from the average wages of those employed in time manu-
facture of fine woollen cloths, that they were now paid
better than in 1815, though not quite so high as in
1820. The distress which existed was chiefly amongst
the weavers of stuff and other fancy articles, which
had gone much out of use. The whole of these
communications were made in the present month.
The Right Hon. Gent. next quoted the testimony of an
Hon. Friend of his, a Member, he observed, of the House,
with respect to the state a
aistrice, worch would show that those Hon. Members
who looked only at the gloomy side of the picture did not
correctly represent the actual condition of the country. It
showed that the condition of the population in the west
part -of Staffordshire was greatly improved, they were
generally employed, and there was nothing of discontent
amongst them. The business of Birmingham, Wolver-
hampton, and Walsall, were greatly improved, and they had
lately got as many orders as in any years for a long time.
It was true it was said that some of the ironmasters worked
below a prollt—(Hear, hear)—but they made as much as
the capital they expended, and the legislature could not, by
any act, support moneyless speculators. The condition of
the workmen themselves was greatly improved. He would
not fatigue the House with longer statements, but he had
received several other communications, all showing that the
manufacturing interests were not in that depressed state
which some Hon. alembers lepresented, and that there was
a satisfactory prospect of still greater inimovement. I-hav-
ing shown this, he would now say one word as to the
cause to which Hon. Members attributed that which he
admitted to constitute the distress of the country,—the
low price of labour, low profits, and low returns on in-
' vestment. If Hon. Members attributed those to the
changes in the currency, he could assure them they
were much mistaken. He did not deny that the
changes in the character of the currency had pro-
duced partial pressure, but what he did deny was,
that that pressure was not so extensive as had been stated.
' With respect to what had fallen from a Noble Lord
(Howick) opposite, on the subject of banking, he wished
to say, that he concurred with the Noble Lord as to the
importance of the subject, and willingly admitted that it
was well worthy the consideration of the House, with a
view to its affording greater facilities to the formation of
branch banks, than time law at present permitted. It was
well known to the House, that though some of the ob-
stacles which the Charter of time Bank of England placed
in the way of such establishments had been somewhat te-
lexed in 1826, many other obstacles should be removed
before time banking system of the country was placed on
that broad basis of national advantage and stability, which
he begged leave to assure the House, Ministers were
anxious it should rest upon.—(Hear.)—The Right Hon.
Gentlemen repeated, that it was the ardent wish of the Go-
vernment to place the general banking system of the coun-
try on that broad basis ; and that as soon as circum-
stances should permit. Ministers conceived, he said, that
the joint stock banking system presented advantages to
the public beyead those which the private banking could
in the nature of things afford. There would be, in the
first place, a greater security for the holder of the issues ;
and, what was a still greater recommendation, arid should
be an indispensable condition, sueli banks could en-
dure, and should be required to give, publicity of those
issues.—( Hear, hear. )—This publicity was the great re-
commendatory feature—in fact the essence—of Joint Stock
Banks—(Hear)—indeed, he would almost say it was pe-
culiar to such banks, as few private banks could endure, or
ought in fairness to be required, to put the public in
full possession of all their transactions.--e, (Hear, hear. )
The system he should like to see acted upon would
be one similar in kind t.® that so long in force in Scot-
land ; for he thought none equally conducive to time wants,
resources, and interests of the country.—(llear, hear.)—
That system was, in his conviction, the best which Par-
, lianient could sanction, and was that which Ministers
wished for, and would support, though they could not
then take it upon them to spceify the period within which
it should be adopted by them. In conclusion, the Right
lion. Gentleman said, he should oppose the motion of the
lion. Member, as he conceived it could only tend to keep
the public mind in a state of agitation without any coun-
terbalancing advantage. The remedy for the present dis-
tress was not in the power of Parliament ;—it was to he
sought for in the innate energies of time country alone.
That distress was not confined to Great Britain—it ex-
tended over the commercial world. and arose from causes
over which there could not in a free state be a legislative
controul. The Right Hon. Gentleman read an extract
from time report of Mr. Lincoln, the Secretary to the
Bout] of Trade of the United States, in order to show
that that gentleman tools the same view of the causes and
extent of the present general distress with that enter-
tained Ministers. To the concluding
steaninteetnicebyof lA6isr,,
Lincoln's report he wished to direct the
best attention of the
House. " The distress has arisen,"
observed that gentleman, " from a variety of complicated
causes, for which political power has no remedy. It is
on the active energies of man in pursuit of individual, and
through it, of the general interest, that a wise legislature
should rely for the relief of that distress to which it was
no party, and could have no unobjectionable remedy."—
llar?
hear. )—So with his Majesty's Government with
respect to the distress which thus Hon. Member had (e