The Sun.
London, England, 1863-02-06 00:00:00

America of rival states and of cabinets—of frequent turbu- ter, would be in an efficient and complete state. The colo-
lence, and probably of frequent war. (Hear.) With these nial expenditure, we are sometimes told, was greater than
views I have myself, during the last session, exerted what- that now, but in the days of the Duke of Wellington we had
ever little influence I might possess in endeavouring to dis- not the empire we now possess ; we have some colonies now
suede my friends from embarrassing her Majesty's Govern- we did not possess then, and the colonial expenditure was,
client in the position of politic and dignified reserve which I believe, greater than now, for those considerable changes
they appeared to mo to have taken upon this question. in the government of the colonies which hid led to the re-
(Cheers.) It appeared to me, looking at these transactions duction of the expenditure had not occurred. Therefore he
across the Atlantic as events not of a mere casual character, had a great army and navy to maintain our establishments
but such as might probably influence those countries as the abroad and our colonies. But yet he was a frugal Minister,
great French revolution had influenced and was still in- because he did not follow a diplomacy of intrigue—(hear,
fluencing Europe—it did appear to me that there was on hear)—tecause his policy was a truly conservative policy—
our part due to the existing authorities in America a large a policy, not of sensation and surprise, which suits, no
measure of deference in the difficulties which they had to doubt, continental nations, where public opinion only takes
encounter. (Hear, hear.) At the same time it was natural in the consideration of external affairs ; but a policy of in-
to feel—and Ido not wish to disguise it—that they should trigue and a diplomacy of sensation and surprise are not
entertain a great respect for those Southern States who, re- necessary for a country like England, where liberty and in-
presenting vast populations of Americans, were struggling dustry occupy the energies and minds of the people, and
for the great object of existence—independence and power. where we are blessed with a government rooted, deeply
But it did appear to me that the course which her Majesty's rooted, in the affections of the country and supported by the
Ministers had apparently reso. ved on supporting was one traditions of centuries, But until they have arrived at the
which, on the whole, was honourable to this country, and P
would, on the whole, prove beneficial to all classes of the I oint clearly to understand the inevitable connection of a
restless policy with a large expenditure 1 shall be very seep-
community. (Hear, hear.) I was therefore, sir, surprised, l tical as to the permanent character of any reduction. But
and individually somewhat mortified, when I found that in it is necessary clearly to understand this—do not let it be
the autumn her Majesty's Ministers had commissioned one supposed, because you advocate a frugal and economic ad-
of their colleagues to repair to the chief seats of industry in ministration of the public funds, you are opposed to the
the country, and, as far as I could collect, entirely changed maintenance of the efficiency of the public services or those
the policy which they had hitherto supported and sustained, establishments which are necessary. Well, we are to receive
(Cheers.) It was not an accident. That declaration was these papers upon Denmark, Italy, and other places. 1 will
wait until they are before us—certainly before I will touch
formal. It was made avowedly with the consent and with
o
the sanction of the Government. (Hear, hear.) And what on the subject of Denmark. I may say I think, with due
did that declaration mean ? If it meant anything, it meant humility, that Denmark is a subject lam not entirely igno-
that the Southern States ought to be recognised, because if it rant of. In 1848 I took the liberty of bringing the subject
be true that they have created armies and navies and a pee- of Schleswig-Holstein before this house, and I was sup-
ple, then by every principle of policy and of public law we are ported at least by the sympathy of the present Secretary
bound to recognise their political existence. (Cheers.) It ap- of State for Foreign Affairs, and I think, if I remem-
peered to me that upon the face of that declaration there was her aright, by a speech from the noble lord the First
a very great inconsistency, and I think that the course of Minister of the Crown. 1 will not ventare to introduce
conduct there recommended was one which nothing had the subject on this occasion, but, not being entirely igno-
occurred in the interval to justify. (Hear.) It is most un- rant of it, I will venture to say of the Schleswig-Holstein
fortunate upon a subject of such importance, and upon question that it is one which all understand and which none
which it appeared that the Government had taken at first can explain. (Laughter.) Who could have supposed, then,
so correct and dignified a position, there should have been that in the late autumn, the Foreign Secretary, being in
exhibited by her Majesty's Ministers such contradictory Germany, and, as we all hope, finding the relaxation which
conduct and such conflicting opinions. (Hear, hear.) And after his labours he required, and which none, I am sure,
that in that state of things they should have felt it their will grudge him, should have thought it discreet and nem-
duty to communicate this vacillation of purpose and this eary to revive this interminable question, when there are
inconsistency of judgment to the whole nation. (Hear.) many other points in Europe generally which might occupy
We were told originally by the Minister who ought to be his attention, and that he should have thought it necessary
the best informed upon these topics—namely, the noble earl to write a dispatch into the merits of which I will not now
the Minister for Foreign Affairs—what in the opinion of enter—(laughter)—supporting a policy apparently contrary
her Majesty's Government were the motives of this civil to the policy which he favoured when he was the most
war—that there was a desire upon the part of the North to responsible Minister of the Crown, and which, I understood,
establish dominion, and on the part of the South to achieve was supported by the noble lord who succeeded him. On
independence. (Hear, hear.) It may have been, perhaps, the question of what has occurred at Rome I suppose we
indiscreet on the part of her Majesty's Ministers to have must have some explanation ; but I must in self-vindica-
made that public declaration of their opinion; but what are tion remind the house that, two years ago, having to speak

we to say of the subsequent definitions of this contest which

upon our relations with Italy, I did suggest that the settle.

have also been supplied ? It is only a fortnight since a
member of the Cabinet said that the whole cause of this
war was the existence of slavery, and he denounced that as

ment of the Romish question was not one that was so easy
as some hon. gentlemen appeared to think—that the ques-
tion of the residence of the Pope was not to be settled of€•

a pestilent institution. (Hear.) What agreement is there
between the President of the Board of Trade, who spoke
but a fortnight ago, and that Minister who upon such sub-
jects is a high authority, when he gave the opinion of the
Cabinet at the commencement of the war. (Hear, hear.)

hand ; that it was one equally interesting to Protestant and
Roman Catholic States, and peculiarly interesting, as it has
always been held to be by our great statesmen, to the
United Kingdom. But I ventured to say it would lead to
controversies and misunderstandings as to the country in

One day we find another member of the Cabinet recom-
mending as the only specific the recognition of Southern
independence, and he is immediately followed by a colleague
who said that none of the conditions upon which indepen-
dence should be recognised as yet existed in the Southern
States. (Hear, hear.) In fact this variety of opinion is so
prevalent amongst her Majesty's Ministers that I believe
one of them, not yet a member of the Cabinet, but whose
lips are steeped in the gravity of the Privy Council, in-
formed as recently that in the opinion of the Government
the Lord of Hosts was on the side of the Southern States.
(Laughter.) Sir, 1 think it is very much to be regretted that

which the Pope should take his permanent residence. What
was said by the noble lord, who was then a member of this
house ? We merely imagined contingencies which prohably
might never occur. Not 24 months have passed, and we
find the Roman Catholic and Protestant Powers in active
competition on this very subject—(laughter)—as to the
country where the Pope should reside, and the power and
influences under which he should remain. I leave it to
another occasion to advert, if necessary, to more im-
portant considerations connected with this matter, but I
feel it right to recall those remarks which I once made to
show that they have been completely justified by the event.

her Majesty's Government did not adhere to that reserve
which distinguished them during the last session upon this
great question, and it is much to be deprecated, unless a
change took place in their policy, that there should not
have been mere silence during the recess as regards their
individual opinions. (Hear, hear,) Whatever may be the
disinclination of her Majesty's Government to interfere

I take it for granted that something will appear in the
papers which will explain, or at least mitigate, the almost
intolerable absurdity of the position, as it at present ap-
pears to impartial observers. (Hear.) I give the Govern-
ment credit for their consistency; and no doubt some infor-
mation will be laid on the table which will remove from
them that surplusage of absurdity that at present seems to

with other Powers in the conflict in the American states,
there does not appear to be any abstract objection on the
part of the Government to interfere in the affairs of other
states, inasmuch as in the course of the autumn they have

attach to them. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) The noble
lord, in this mellow harvest of autumnal indiscretion—
(laughter)—was not content with disturbing the waters of
the Baltic, but he appears to have been very active in the

felt it becoming them to interfere in many other puts of the
world. (Hear, hear.) Therefore the objection is not an
abstract one ; it must be founded entirely on the circum-

the Mediterranean; and here, again, we have arrived at a
point on which information may be expected from her Ma-
jesty's Government. There have often been controversies

stances before them. We are promised in the Speech of
the Royal Commissioners papers with reference to Greece,
to Italy, and to Denmark. I must say that on all those
subjects papers are very necessary. (Laughter.) They
may through light upon transactions and communications
which certainly have startled and perplexed us in the re-

respecting the policy of the noble lord the First Minister;
very different opinions and descriptions of it have been
given ; and of course the noble lord must be subject to that
criticism which all eminent persons allow when their con-
duct is concernel. Sometimes the foreign policy of the
noble lord is called a "spirited" foreign policy; sometimes

cess. But there is one country not mentioned in the Royal
Speech respecting which I should be glad if we could get
some information, and particularly with regard to the
popular question of the day—interference—and that is
China. I wish I had a more accurate and rather more pre-
cise idea of what our relations are with China, and what is

it is called a" turbulent" policy ; sometimes the noble lord
is described as the " incarnation of Liberalism ;" and some-
times he is denounced as the " ready tool of any despot,"
provided the despot is powerful. (Hear, hear.) I suppose
I shall have some information in a few days respecting the
incredible proceedings which, within these last few hours,