The Sun.
London, England, 1837-12-02 00:00:00

many which were called such by courtesy, or which by cour-
tesy, and courtesy only, had the name of school applied to
them, and to the operations pursued in which the application
of the term teaching was also by courtesy applied, were no
more fit to be called schools—if by the name of schools were
meant places in which anything was taught, and if by the
term teaching were implied the communication of some know-
ledge by some method which enabled the attendants to learn,
and which added something to the acquirements which were
previously possessed by the pupil—they no more deserved
the names by which those things were known than did any
other operation to which no person would ever dream of
applying the term instruction. No doubt many of the
schools at present in existence afforded admirable instruction
to the pupil attending them ; and it was as certain that
there were scarcely any, however good, in which the sys-
tem of instruction was not capable of some improvement,
if judiciously introduced. He did not mean to say that
the misapplication of the name of school to places in
which instruction was pretended to be imparted referred to
any of the great schools ; it did not refer either to the semi-
naries commonly designated National Schools, or to those
established under the superintendence of the British and Fo-
reign School Society—seminaries which he believed to be well
conducted ; but the misapplication was to the places called
schools, to the operations pursued in which the name of teach-
ing could by no kind of flattery or courtesy be legitimately
given. He believed that in a large number, he thought in
more than one-half of the whole 40,000 unendowed schools,
the education afforded was exceedingly imperfect. He believed
he should not at all overstate the fact, were he to add that at
least one-fourth—he was confident above one-fifth—but at
least one-fourth of these schools were in such a state of dis-
cipline and accommodation—of indiscipline, he meant, of
course, and utter want of accommodation—and in respect of
capacity and learning, those appointed to conduct them were
so utterly unprovided, that, except by courtesy and by an ex-
cess of flattery, they could not be called otherwise than pre-
tended schools. That immediate steps should be taken to cor-
rect this they were all agreed, and the Right Rev. Prelate bad
most justly observed that there was no one course which could
be taken by the Legislature more sound or more beneficial for
improving the kind of education to be given at the schools than
that of providing a large supply of well-taught and properly-
remunerated schoolmasters. At present there was no se-
curity for the continuance of the existing schools in any
given district. In many parts of the country, and la eicularly
in those places where education was most wanted—he meant
in great cities and large manufacturing towns—where the
number of schools was most defective, and the kind of teach-
ing was most lamentably deficient, this insecurity was espe-
cially felt. In some of the great towns of the north, and, he
would say, in the metropolis itself, where education was most
of all wanted, people were not to be found who had the power
of lending their assistance towards the education of them-
selves or others. They had neither time to give labour nor
a purse to afford money, and yet these were the places where
education was most wanted, and for which, therefore, of course
it was most incumbent on the Legislature to provide the
means. It was with a view to meet all these purposes, and
after considering the course which was proper and fit to be
taken, that he imposed on himself the task of framing a
measure in the course of last session to which he had since
added those points that appeared to him necessary to make his
plan complete, and to which he would now beg to call their
Lordships' attention more particularly in detail. In the first
place, it seemed to be on all hands admitted that whether they
were to go further in the way of making grants of money or not,
at any rate a public department was essentially necessary—
called abroad the Department of Public Instruction, but
which we should call the Education Department. This de-
partment was absolutely necessary if it were only for the
purpose of making a judicious application of the public
money. Accordingly, the plan which lie had prepared con-
sisted in the first place in the establishing of such a Board.
His object now was to call their Lordships' attention to the
duties which that Education Board would have to discharge.
This formed the subject of the first Bill which he intended
to submit to their Lordships. With respect to those duties
relating to the superintendence and administration of
charity funds, to the remedies for breach of trust, to the
better and proper application of the funds for the puroposes
of education, they were all matters of arrangement to be
considered by themselves, and which would exclusively form
the subject of a separate Bill. This division of the :object
into two" Bills was adopted for various good reasons.
Many persons felt a great difficulty with respect to a le-
gisletiee measure relating to the administration of chat ities who
experienced no difficulty at all with respect to the duties of an
cducatio t Beard. 'I hat was his reason, therefore, for
separating the subject. It ceuld net perhaps be ultimately
separated, because such a Board could not properly dis-
charge its duty without having some control over the applica-
tion of the charity funds. The Boerd, as it was originally pro-
posed by him, was to consist cf three paid Commissioners, not
removable unless by address to the Crown by both Houses of Par-
liament. To these were added three Ministers of State and the
Speaker of the House of Commons. But in the plan he now
prof osed he had omitted the Speaker of the House of Com-
mons, and had also omitted one of the Ministers of State, so
as to make the Board consist of two Ministers of the Crown
and three life members. It was needless to state why he had
made this change. Many persons were of opinion that the
Speaker could have no time to devote to this subject; and it
being avowedly his ( Lord Brougham's) intention that the
Speaker` should only interfere in eases of an extraordinary na-
ture, where his experience and authority would be required,
he (Lord Brougham) thought, upon the whole, that it might
be proper to omit the Speaker altogether. Then, with re-
spect to the omission of one of the Ministers of State, many
persons were of opinion that it would be as well to reduce the
number of Ministers on the Thud to two, which would at
the same time avcid the inconvenience of having an even num-
ber of members constituting the Board. Accordingly two
Ministers only were retained. It was necessary that there
should be some members of the Government on the Board,
because there were many things in which the concurrence of
Ministers would be required. If he were asked what those
things were which made it necessary to have the constant in-
terposition of a Minister of the Crown, his answer was, that
under the proposed system there would be grants of money, and
there would be the administration of those grants; and it was
well known that they could not entrust the task of distri-
buting those grants to any Board of Commissioners with that
degree of confidence that would be felt were the distribu-
tion of them made with the concurrence of a Minister of
the Crown, whom both the country and the Parliament
who made the vote would look to as responsible. The Noble
and Learned Lord proceeded to detail other portions of the
plan, but in so very low a tone of voice that it was impossible
for those stationed in the gallery to hear him for a considera-
ble time. We understood hint to say that it was not intended
that the Ministers of the Crown who were members of the
Beard should have any power with respect to the appoitaments
of schoolmasters, in order to prevent the possibility of turning
the authority of the Beard to purposes of abuse, nomination,
and political jobbing. Having stated who were to constitute
the Beard, the next questions were, what powers were to be
vested in them, and what was the Board to do for the pur-
poses of improving and extending education ? In the first
place, they were to distribute the grants made from time to
time by Parliament, and the funds which were now as the
law at present stood, or which, as the law respecting charity
funds might hereafter be made, might become disposable by
that Board for the purpose of education. In the next place,
the Board were to have the power, but with the concur-
rence of the local authorities—and to this point, before he
proceeded farther, he prayed the particular attention of their
Lcrdships. The great leading principle of the Bill, grounded
on those , rules which he began to state before he en-
tered into details, was, that there should be a concur-
rence in every case of the local authorities—that was
to say of the people amongst whom education was to be planted
or extended, or improved—with the central body before any
change whatever could take place in any one of them. He
thus took security, on the one hand, against too great an inter-
ference on the part of the Government—against abuse arising
from that interference, against too great power being exercised
by Government, against control over the education of the
people by Government ; and, on the other hand, he took se-
curity against what was also a possible risk and to be carefully
provided against, namely, against local abuses, against a dis-
position on the part of local authorities for any peculiar pur-
poscs to obtain possession of funds which they ought not to
hare, or to raise funds even amongst themselves which they
ought not to be permitted to raise. He thus tcok security
against both the local and central authorities, by requiring, in
every instance, the joint concurrence of both the one and the
other. Their Lordship would presently perceive how the Bill
was calculated to work out these objects. The country, for
the purposes of this measure, might be considered divided
into two descriptions of persons—one into Municipal Cor-
porations, whose local affairs were committed to Town
Councils who represented the people ; the other into those
districts of the country lying beyond the bounds of any
Municipal Corporation, where the people had no councils,
nor any body in whom the functions exercised in Corporate
towns were vested ; in short, where, in his apprehension, there
was not at present existing any competent, safe, and beneficial
body to discharge those duties whichwere entrusted to Corpo-
rations. Now, supposing both the one and the other of this
description of persons to desiderate the application of the pro-
visions of the Bill he wished to introduce, it became incum-
bent on him to show in what manner those provisions would
work. Suppose in any town or parish there was a great defi-
ciency found iii the means of instruction : it might either be
that there was no school, or that there were too few schools,
or it might be that the schools already existing were of a bad
description, and ill provided with teachers, or it might be that
two or more of these defects, or all of them joined together
(which he was afraid was too often the case), existed. Imme-
diately, and of course, an attempt would be made, when the
Bill came into operation, to amend these defects by providing
a sufficient supply, or a better kind of education, or by extend-
ing the number of schools, or improving those that existed.
But the town council of the place could do nothing of itself.
It must make its application to the, Education Department. It
must lay an estimate before the Board, with all the particulars
of the wants complained of. It must lay a plan before the
Board, an estimate of what was required: it must also lay be-
fore the Board a statement of the kind of schools required in re-
spect of teaching the different branches of education to be
taught, the mode of teaching beat adapted for the purpose of their
local situation, and also a statement in respect of the rules and
regulations for the management of the school, for the choice
of the teachers, for the discipline and for the visitation and
inspection of the schools, and for the relations between the
schools and the patrons. All these rules must by the Town
Council or the new local authorities (of which he should after-
wards speak) be prepared and laid before the Board, with the
reasons for requiring the sanction of the Board to their pro-
posals. If the Board, on listening to the reasons, were con-
vinced, on examining the plan, approved of it,
i, above a
and on scruti-
nisingll
the estimates had no objection to them—
f,
and first of all, after examining accurately the rules and regu-

will thus gain your object without riels, and it may be effected
by mixing good and cheap education, and rendering it easily
attainable. For myself, my Lords, I would even go a step
further; I would take stepi for the amendment of the law;
which might incidentally have a very beneficial tendency. I
have often heard it proposed to frame the laws in such a
manner as to give a direct discouragement to ignorance. My
Noble and Learned Friend opposite will recollect a sugges-
tion that the Statute of Frauds, which requires every contract
relating to land to be in writing, should apply to all contracts
whatsoever. My Noble Friend reminds me that this is al-
ready the law of other countries, and I believe that it is so in
France. It would have the effect of placing under some
slight disability those who are unable to write. I have no
great objection, therefore, on occasions where we can do so
without great interference with right, to extend the rules
of the State's interference in the administration of a
man's domestic affairs, and where there is quite a
clear ground for our interference, where we are absolutely
certain that our direction and plan are, correct, and that we
are fully justified in the attempt, not only to extend excite-
ments and incentive to the discharge of this duty beyond
mere encouragement, and to render its neglect disadvanta-
geous to the parties concerned, if not to make it attended
with serious consequences. The propriety of the penal inter-
ference of the State, however, even in matters of acknow-
ledged utility, has been matter of much controversy. I re-
member a question which has been often broached amongst
political economists, how far Government was justified in any
interference with respect to the industry of the people, and
that a striking illustration has been drawn from the history of
the Russian empire and the Czar Peter the Great. Although
the country abounded with timber, the people had not learnt
the use of the saw, and though the staple commodities were
deal, yet the houses were meat rudely fashioned, and a great
waste ensued, because the workmen used no instrument for
the conversion of the timber but the hatchet. As it appears
self-evident that it is the duty of parents to educate their
children, and it is inferred that some penalty should be
awarded for its breach, so Peter the Great, who if he never
had done a worse action, would have well earned the appel-
lation which has been given to him.—( Hear.) Seeing
so clearly that the use of the custom of his people was
unfit and prejudicial, though he did not think it proper to
compel the use of saws, yet, to accelerate their introduc-
tion, imposed a tax upon deals cut otherwise ; and, according
to my recollection, I believe that in the first year of its impo-
sition the tax produced a great return, but in the next year
scarce a ruble was obtained. Just so in the present case, we
may impose such disadvantages on those who are not pos-
sessed of education as to have the effect of removing obstruc-
tions, and doing away with any unwillingness on the part of
the people to receive its blessings. If people were univer-
sally aware of their own interests—if they all felt the benefits
of education as well as their duty in imparting it to their off-
spring—if they felt that it was a duty not only owing to the
one but incumbent on the other—l should be even more will-
ing to listen to some proposition, not by any direct penalty,
not by any direct punishment of throwing some such disad-
vantage on the people, for the neglect of this duty, as might
accelerate its diffusion. After sonic other remarks, his Lord-
ship proceeded :—So far he was for non-interference : he
would not fix the kind of education, nor determine the parties
who should receive it, hut he would bring it home to the door
of every man, by multiplying the number of schools; and not
only would he, by making it cheap, bring it within the reach
of all, but he would assist in improving the style of education,
by providing schools for the training of schoolmasters, by
giving them greater facilities for acquiring knowledge, and
greater power to the people to avail themselves of these
teachers' better qualifications. These were his ideas ; he
would interfere as little as possible ; he would render as-
sistance ; he would not force, but help. Considering the
circumstances in which this country was placed, and the prin-
ciples applicable to its present situation and tome, he thought
that any measure which should be propounded should not be
based on any general principles, but should have particular
reference to them, and to the actual state of education in
England. There were a great number of schools of great
importance in this country. There were not less than fifty
thousand of various kinds, of which thirty-nine or forty thou-
sand were entirely unendowed—they rested for support exclu-
sively on the voluntary contributions and great personal exer-
tions of the subscribers; the remainder were endowed. He
thought that persons were by no means supported in the as-
sertion that the children educated in these schools ought to be
considered as charity children, for a great portion of them
were not so in the strict sense of the word. He would take
tt'e 39,000 day schools only, for though Sunday schools pro-
duced groat benefit, and were of considerable utility, yet
they were necessarily very imperfect means of instruction,
because, as they were confined to one day in the week, and
of course only to a small portion of that day, the children
who attended them could not be perfectly instructed. Of
these day schools, then, how many chirds, n were in the
situation of being called with accuracy charity childeren ?
One half? No such thing. Many years ago, one half of
the schools were free schools. In 1820 there were 600,000
scholars in endowed and unendowed schools, of whicti
one half were in endowed schools, and this included
elle) the free schools; and, if they looked at the number of
scholars who paid included in the total number, lie thought
that the number of those who did not pay even then might be
reduced to 117,000 ; and at the present moment that not
morn than one third of the total number of scholars were gra-
tuitously taught. This was a material circumstance, and it
ices overlooked by the persons who agreed with him (Lord
Brougham) on other points, but who underrated the value of
the present amount of education, attributing it all to charity,
and avowing lightly that a system supported by mere charity
Wes pregnant with evil ; that it tended to lower the character
of the children ; that it made too great d distinction between
the different shades of society ; that it was not based on the
reciprocity of good offices and kindly feelings; that the kind
offices partook too much of a patronising spirit, and a presimp-
tion of authority which could hardly fail from being attended
with the submission, not to say degradation, of the recipients ;
that it did away with the feeling which ought to prevail in the
individuals who received towards those who bestowed ; and
that it give the notion that the children were not independent,
that they were the victims of poverty, and that they were, in
short, the objects of charity. No one could deplore than him-
se.f the deficiencies of the present system, or wish that it were
superseded by one of greater value ; but the notion that those
were charity children who were educated in schools supported
by private subscription, and by the personal exertions of pub-
lic spirited individuals, and that these children were in a
degraded situation, could only arise from a superficial
knowledge of the facts.—(Hear, hear.) Another circum-
stance which should be considered in fixing on a system of
education was, that it must be suited to the local circumstances
of the place in which it was to be established ; cne system
might be perfectly adapted for one place which was wholly
inadequate for another. Thus, it would be absurd to follow
the example of the Scot'iih Parliament previous to the
revolution of 1658 in the establishment of parish schools,
and to allot one school for each parish. Perhaps there
might be half-a-dozen in existence already, and to add one
to this numLsr without knowing the particular circumstances
of the locality would not only be a useless but also a prepos-
terous proceeding. The parish schools were perfectly ade-
quate for the state of Scotland at that time, when there were
scarcely any schools, when the influence of trade and manu-
factures was little felt, and when there was hardly any diffe-
rence in the circumstances, and when all were sunk into a
low state of ignorance ; but they would be quite improper in
thi: country. If any system were introduced which suited a
c-mmercial district, it might be unfitted for a manufacturing
tovt n ; if it were adequate for both a commercial and manufac-
turing part of the country, it might be wholly inapplicable to a
rural parish ; and even if it were proper for a rural parish of great
extent, and with a particular class of people, it might not be ap-
propriate for another rural parish of less extent, and with
a different race. Every system of education, therefore, if
it were meant to succeed, must be so framed as to be capa-
ble of expansion and contraction, and easily susceptible of
such variations and modifications as might suit the different,
parts of the country, and meet the views, the wants, and the
altering state of the various towns and even villages which
were found to exist in England. Another circumstance im-
posing restraint on the introduction of a general system was,
that not only were these funds raised by the exertions of indi-
viduals, but there were also many funds arising from the en-
dowments. In some parts these endowments were snore than
sufficient to provide for the required instruction; in others
they just met the exigencies of the place, and in others they
were entirely wanting. How, therefore, could they frame
any general measure, which, operating alike in all parts and
in all places, could have a beneficial tendency ? What would
be perfectly sufficient for one place would be utterly inefficient li
for another. The effect of the state of this country as regarded
the religious feelings of the people presented another ob-
stacle to the well-working of any uniform measure. They had
in all places the Established Church, but in some parts a
great proportion of the people did not believe in the tenets
and conform to the usages of that Church ; in some places
there were hardly any Dissenters, in others they were su-
perabundant, in some districts they amounted to a tajority,
and in others they were almost on an equality with the
members of the Establishment. Nay, the sects themselves
varied in different parts, one sect preponderating in one dis-
trict, and another elsewhere. Yet, if they found one system
which might be adapted to the religious peculiarities of one
sect or district, yet if they
applied- the alteration to others
it would be wholly inappropriate. Such was the present state
of education here; so much had been done by private indivi-
duals, so many schools were at present in existence, the present
funds with the assistance of endowments on the one hand, and
the payment by the scholars added to private subscriptions on
the other, were so considerable, and the funds required for the
universal establishment of some system adequate to the wants
of the whole commnnity were so large, that it became abso-
lutely necessary to use the greatest care and precaution so that
the efforts of indiViduals might not in any manner be relaxed,
and so as not to intercept the funds at present appropriated
to this most desirable object ; they ought to assist the
further efforts of persons disposed to advance the good
work, rather than supplant them, always bearing in mind
that the measures adopted by the Legislature should not pre-
vent the adoption in each locality of the system best adapted
to the peculiar wishes, feelings, and exigencies of the
inhabitants--that they ought not to interfere with the exer-
tions of individuals who had already assisted in their own
districts, and that they ought to excite, to encourage, and
to stimulate these individuals for the purpose of increasing
their exertions. Not merely were the present means of
instruction deficient in amount, not only were the schools
already established by far too few for the number of the
younger portion of the population, not only were there too
few children attending these schools, for at the present pe-
riod there were not more than one million and a quarter
of individuals receiving instruction, or, he believed, in Eng-
landpar t
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to that evening, that the majority of the schools, at least

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY, DECEMBER 2, 1537

lations of the schools either proposed to be established, or
proposed to be extended, or proposed to be improved, the
Board approved of them—then the Board, and not till then,
slight give its sanction for further proceedings. The Board
might then say to the local authorities—" We see you re-
quire so much money to be advanced out of the Parliamen-
tary grant. Furnish a certain proportion, according to the
rules which we have laid down, and you shall have the sum
required." It was unpleasant to interrupt oneself in a state-
ment ; but the Right Reverend Prelate had made an ob-
servation which justified him (Lord Brougham) to step aside
for a moment from the point he was pursuing. The system
hitherto adopted in extending assistance from the Parlia-
mentary grants, was exceedingly imperfect. The rule laid
down by the Treasury was, that as often as any applica-
tion was made from any quarter for assistance from the Par-
liamentary grant it should only be given after a certain pro-
portion—one half, he believed—of the sum required being
raised by the parties making the application. It was said
that this was holding the balance quite even between the
British and Foreign Society and the National Society. He
'himself first thought it was so ; and during the first year it
was perfectly just, for the same application was made " from
us" and from the National School. When he said " us," it
was because he happened to be a member of the British and
Foreign School Society, having, indeed, presided at its first
meeting thirty years ago. In the beginning, then, it seemed
that both Societies were on an equal footing with regard to
the advances made to them from the Parliamentary grants.
But this was confined to the first year. The British
and Foreign Society actually exhausted their funds during
that year ; it was therefore unable to make a proportionate
advance in subsequent years; so that next year upwards
of two-thirds or three fifths, or even four-fifths, of the Par.
liameetary grant went to the National Society, and ne-
cessarily so, because that Society, being richer, was able to
make the required proportionate advance. It did not, how-
ever, at all follow that because applications were not made
from any given place, therefore there did not exist an equal
want of assistance. He-could name places where the as-
sistance from the Parliamentary grant was most pressingly
wanted, and yet where there were no means of raising twenty
shillings towards a fund. It was therefore imperative upon
the Treasury to alter their present system. They must have
a system capable of contraction, expansion, variation, and
adaptation. To require a particular place to furnish two-
thirds or three-fourths of the proportion of the sum wanted
might in some cases be too little ; and in others to require
even a much less proportion of the money might be too much ;
and to require what was actually right might probably occur
only once in five hundred cases. The consequence was that
the money granted by Parliament was exhausted, and that yet
education was wanted in many places. For aught he knew
the mere education and training of teachers might be alone
sufficient to exhaust the Parliamentary grants ; or it might be
that the Parliamentary grants should never be allowed except in
those very rare instances where no fund could be got b 3 rate lo-
cally, nor by private assistance locally. In all other cases
he apprehended a school-rate might safely, and ought
justly, and would beneficially be directed under the au-
thority of the Board, with the concurrence of the local autho-
rity. The people of such places could not complain, because
they had consented to it by their Representatives ; they could
not complain of their burden, because they had asked it by
their Representatives. They, and they alone, were to origi-
nate the plan. Unless they desired it they were not to be
rated ; unless they called for the rate, or for the power of
rating themselves, the Bill gave no authority to impose any
rate whatever upon them. So much for the liberty which the
Bill gave to what might be called the voluntary principle in
the proper sense of the word upon the spot. But then, on the
other hand, that they should not at their own will and pleasure
have the power of rating themselves without the authority of
the central body he took to be perfectly clear also ; because it
did so happen that even Representatives chosen by the rate-
payers at large were sometimes disposed to incur expenses
which their constituents, if left to themselves, would not have
allowed. Therefore it became not at all superfluous to inter-
pose a protection against the possibility of such a step. Ac-
cordingly the joint consent of the local authority of the district
and the central department was required before any rate
could be made. He would now call upon their Lordships to
observe how the Bill would work with respect to these regula-
tions. Suppose alocal body were to propound to the Board, with
an estimate and statement of the want of education in their
district, a set of rules extremely injudicious—a set of rules
to which the Legislature and the country ought not to afford
its sanction ; suppose there should be any intolerance in
the case ; suppose, for instance, the majority of the Town
Council should be disposed to oppress the minority ; suppose
that the Dissenters should have obtained a great preponderance
in that body, and should propose, for instance, that no clergy-
man of the Established Churth—(he was sure that sech a
case was not the least likely to happen, but he put it merely
as an illustration)—suppose that the Dissenters, having autho-
rity in that body, should propose that na minister of the Esta-
blished Church should ever be a teacher iu their school, it
would then be for the Board to say—constituted, as it would
be first, by the three irremovable Commissioners, and then by
the two responsible Ministers of the Crown—whether the
school applied for should be established under their authority,
and under the powers and provisions of this Bill, from being a
master of which one of the school-rules positively and im-
peratively excluded any minister of the Established Church.
He would suppose another case, which he hoped, nay, which
he was quite sure, could not happen; but suppose there
should be any Town Council where, instead of the Dissenters
having obtained a majority, the Churchmen had a majority,
and that they should be minded in their rules to propose
that one of them should be that no Dissenter or any
other than a member of the Church of England. should
ever be master of their schools. The Board would then have
the power to say to the Town-council, " It is utterly imposi-
sible one can consent to this. It would be oppressive to the
Dissenters ; intolerable to all who were not members of the
Church—not creditable to the Church itself—nay, it would
be injurious to the Church ; therefore, as friends of the esta-
blishment and fa iends of toleration, it is our bounden duty to
refuse our sanction to schools, one of whose rules is of that
exclusive and intolerant description." Why, then, it might
be asked, what would be the consequence? The majority of
the representatives of the rate-payers might say, " We have
required to have schools established, and because one of our
rules is that no Dissenter shall be a teacher in them, we are
refused assistance. Is it not hard that if we choose, as a Ma-
jority, not to admit a Dissenter to be a teacher, we should be
deprived of any assistance from the Parliamentary grant ?"
To which he ( Lord Brougham) would make answer thus.
" It is all very well for you who happen to be a majority that
there should exist such a rule, but there happens to be a mi-
nority as well as a majority, and I feel it my duty to interpose
the shield of the Board of Education to protect that minority,
So as to prevent the majority acting intolerantly towards them,
and from excluding them and their children from those very
schools, to the support of which you, the majority, require
the Board to give you the authority to levy a rate from that
minority." Well, then, what happens? The Board refuses to
give the council authority to levy a rate. They must be
left without a rate, and the parish must be left as it now is, and
no school can be established upon this principle. Those who
wish to subscribe to a school of their own, where the rule shall
be that no Churchman, or no Dissenter, as it may happen,
shall be the master of the school, may subscribe according
to the voluntary principle out of their own money ; but they
can have no portion of a grant from Parliament ; they shall
have no power to levy a rate in an unjust, unequal, and in-
tolerant shape. In all these cases matters would be left as
they now are. I believe (said the Noble and Learned Lord)
that those cases would be very rare, and that they are much
more likely to happen in argument than in practice. Your
Lordships will, therefore, perceive that compulsion being ex-
cluded, that intolerance being excluded, that the joint opera-
tion of the board and the local authorities—and only the
control of the board where necessary, and where safe as well
as advantageous being alone allowed—it may be truly said,
that the voluntary principle, as far as it can be applied, will,
according to the disposition and desires of each place, be
exercised in applying and putting in force the power and
authority of this Bill fur the improvement of the school and
the adoption of conciliatory measures. But I shall be asked,
as has been frequently asked out of doors, and once or twice
asked by one for whom I have the greatest possible regard—
I mean a Noble Friend in the other House of Parliament—l
shall be asked why, when stating that additional means will
be rendered necessary to carry this measure into effect in
places where there are no Municipal Corporations, I do not
take the machinery that is at present existing, instead of intro-
ducing new machinery ? You have, it is said, the machinery
of the new Poor-law, you have the Boards of Guardians that
have already been formed, and Unions are likely to take place
in all those parts of the country where they do not at present
exist. The Poor-law Bill, lam told, will sooner or later ex-
tend over the whole country, and why not, therefore, take ad ,
vantage of the arrangements of that important measure for the
purpose of enabling the establishment of schools under the
provisions of the Bill I now propose in places beyond the
limits of the Municipal Corporations ? I think, my Lords, I
can answer that question very satisfactorily, and show how ut-
terly it is impossible, with a view to the well-working of the
measure—( Hear, hear)—as well as the right-working of the
Poor-law Bill itself, to make this junction between them.—.
(Hear, hear.) In the first place, the Poor-law Commis-
sioners are sufficiently worked already. Indeed, I know of
places where it is complained of that they do not attend. But I
I pass that over, for that is really the least of my objec-
tions. No person was ever a more strenuous friend to that
great measure that I was, and ens still.—( Loud cries of
" Hear, hear, hear.") I have often times had reason to
repeat my opinions to your Lordships of the absolute necessity
of that bill ; I have done so before the event, and since the
event of it its entire success in most places, and in all places of
its succeeding better and failing less than I could ever 'ex-
pees.—(Hear, hear.) Nevertheless I cannot shut my eyes
to the fact, that in some places that important measure—
a measure calculated to work so much good, and in the end, I
venture to say, absolutely certain to conciliate all men's fa-
vour and affection—a measure which has already done so
much good, not only to those who pay rates, for that is the
least part of its merit in my eyes, nay, it was no part of its
recommendation with me in supporting it—but in bettering
the condition of the poor themselves, increasing their com-
forts, and above all things in giving them a higher tone of
moral feeling, a greater self-respect and selfsdependence.—
g
( Hear, hear.) My Lords, notwithstanding my favour of
that measure, and my absolutely certain conviction that in
the end all men, even those who most oppose and most de-
nounce be found reconciled to it, and approving of it,
nay, further, will be found grateful for it ; yet I cannot disguise
from myself, nor conceal from your Lordships, that in some
considerable portions of the country, it has not met with that
favour, which it merits, but has been met in some quarters,
I won't say by whom, but in some quarters of th, country,
byla spirit of opposition and of attack which has not been
confined to the measure itself, but has been extended even
to its authors, and is still what may properly and shortly be