The Sun.
London, England, 1839-06-26 00:00:00

EVENING EDITION.

most unnatural and detestable of all systems was practised. i them annual, le-cat; e, until the expenses of candidates
Children, instead of being supported by their parents. were greatly reduced, annual Parliaments would work into
were there found to support their parents; children there the hands of the Pesr, the rich merchant, or the man of large
passed at once from childhood to decripitude and old age, prei city. On the same plan he ol jacted to the annual
knowing nothing of the charms of youth. They became system of registration—it threw the representation into the
disabled and. diseased, perhaps debased, and p isseol into h ands of thosewith a long ru-se, and keep up its concomitants
another world from an early broken-up constitution. And of many agents, so that thee had the evile of annual Parlia-
yet that erniehteued and patriotic assembly which called 'tents without any of its advantages. Six or seven years be
itself the ileuse of Commons— . theueht were too lone, he woul.l they, fore support any
Lord DE VON rose to order. He submitted that the measure for making them triennial. —( Ile --,r, hear.) Ile
Nobe Lord was out of order in his allusion. thought such a measure would please many of the friends
Lord STANHOPE then said, to mike the expression of Parliamentary Reform. They never saw a civil list
Correct in reference l•o the House of Commons and accep. settled by they Id Parliament, vs the Members having the fear
table to the Noble Lord who had just risen to order, he of a general election before their eyes would beintractable.
would call it that House which was not enlightened and The Bill for the stables was passed, but he never saw a
not patriotic.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) He had word about 70,0001. in it from the feast moment it first
called it, to be sure, enlightened and -patriotic, but came into the House Up to the present time. Seventy
he had used that expression . perhaps erroneously, and, thousand pounds was indeed an enormous sum to lay out in
therefore, he would now call it the reverse ; or if it would building stables for those beings. Why that sum would
I
Please the Noble Lord better be would suppose that no build a palace for a man I This was one of the proofs that
such Assembly existed, as perhaps it ought not.—(Hear, there was no difference between a Ileuest of Commons in
bear.) But upon this point, if their Lordships, and par- its lifetime and-at the approach of its death, when it was
titularly his Noble and Learned Friend opposite (Lord sbeut to render up its accounts to the country ; and it went
Brougham), whose erudition was so extensive, would refer, to show that if the period of the existence of a Parliament
or bad referred to an edict of the Spanish monarch in the were much shortened—but not so much as to produce much
year 1766, be would find there a prohibitipn even against greater expense—it would create a better and a more
any slave working till he had arrived at the age of seven- wholesome feeling in its Members. He should now correct
' teen years. Now what was the case here—and their Lord- one or two misstatements which had been made, quite
_ ships must listen to that was natural and reasonable, un- unintentionally he was persuaded, by his Noble
less they were determined to produce scenes in the Friend; but still they were mis.titements which must not
country which he would not venture to describe. Here be permitted to go abroad with the weight of his name at-
f again be would quote, not a Radical authority—the •u- tsched to them. He ( Earl Stanhope) stated that that
thority of a Right lion. Friend of his ahem lie greatly re- House might refuse to receive a Peer, or permit him to
vered, and who was in common with himself an old-fash- take his seat, if he were created by the Crown. Now he
ioned rory—one, he would not say to the eternal disgrace (Lord B.) had sat upon the Woslsaek for some tears, and
of the- House of Commons—so that the Noble Lord (Devon) he never heard a word about this before. The Crown sent
need not he alarmed—but to the eternal disgrace of the down Peers to that House according to the 45th article of
electors of Leeds, they had not elected for their representa- the Charter (so it was:understood), aed the Clerk at the
tiveL-he meant Sir John Beeke t. lie said in a speech table must real their patents or he would incur a penalty.
delivered by him at Leeds—" I say that peace at hone A P.m came up introduced by two other Peers. aid then
means contentment ; and urkss we can establish such a he went through the courtesy of slinking hands with the
system of things as will afford men a fairer remuneration Speaker before he took his seat. What opportunity was
fur their labour, and enable them to maintain themselves there then to call into question the pre,ogative of the
and their families in comfort, there can be no peace at Crown, which had an undoubted right to create Peers?
home ; there never will be peace at home—there never If the Crown had an admitted right to create Peers,
Ought to be peace at home." Such fair remuneration to surely no man would sly that the Crown. might
the labourer for his labour, as Sir John Beckett spoke of, create a Lord, but not a Peer—a Baron who
'la was utterly impossible to expect, so long as their Lord- must not crime to Parliament though he had received a
ships persevered with that most pernicious system of free summons with the Great Seal attaches! to it. Why he
trade, and so long as they continued the Currency 11:11. ( Lord Brougham) had issued summonses to Peers to come
Do What they would to conceal the evils, probable a very to Parliament, and nobody bad ever thought of interleting
short time would be enough for them to be compelled to with them. It would have been a breech of duty, an in.--
retrace their steps upon the subject, except they were de- peachable offence, if he hal neglected to summon them.
termined to doom this country to bankruptcy and to ruin. —( Hear, hear.) His Noble Friend stated that the Crown
He-conjured their Lordships to consider, as they cught, and the Ministers ii, 1832 threatened to create as many
the state and condition of this country—the spit it Peers as should be sufficient to fur ce the Reform Bill
and feeling and disposition of the inhabitants. Let through Parliament.. But lie ( Lord Brougham) would
theirlserdehips not be deceived. A revolution of the most now affirm, that no one Member of his Majesty's Gevern-
tremendous and terrific n ture—one the most destructive cent had nut only not used such unbecoming language
and melancholy in its cotrequences, was now at the thresh- or alluded to so indecorous a topie, but that not one of
old of their doer- Even now, at the twelfth hour, they them had even opened his mouth on the subject---( Hear,
might be able to avert it by proper and prUdent measures ; hear)—or relative- to ant thing connected with it.—( Hear,
but when the crisis arose he held no power of their Lord- hear.) Matters took an entirely different turn, vehich
ships—no power of Parliament would be able to ride upon perhaps were not clearly known to some Noble Lords who
the whirlwind and direct the storm. Whatever the result ha i thought proper to absent themselves from the House
of that revolution might be it would afford him sincere con. and from the public business. If it were intended at that
solation at the last hour of his life to re fleet that he had time to create such a number of new Peers, the very.
zealously though imperfectly endeavoured to discharge his first thing their L,ordships would have heard of them
duty; that he had earnestly, but he feared most ineff c- would be, not in a speech, but it would be when they saw
tually, endeavoured to warn their Lordships of the them coming into the House to take their sea's.
perils by which the country was encompassed on all sides, Earl STANHOPE—I was present when those words
and *of those dangers which, it allowed to continue, threat. were uttered in this House; I have a distinct recollection
end inevitable d. struction, not only to all the institutions of it. The words were spoken by the Noble Earl then at
of the country, but even to the monarchy itself. He had the head of his M jesty's Government.—( Hear. )
' now stated more at length than he was afraid some of their Lord BROUG HAM was sore his Noble Friend was
Lordships might think he ought to have done, but still as one of the last men to rtete what he did not believe to be
concisely as bad been in his power, some of the observa- true. But he (Lord Brougham) bed a distinct and posi-
tions which appeared to him to suggest themselves upon tive recollection that no such words were said. lie was
the subjects of this petition: Long as he had been he had certain that they could not have been said from the course
passed hastily and cursorily over parts of the suljects,because which things then took. He ( Lord Brougham) and his
they deserved and ought to receive full and frequent discus. friends had made, instead of what was attr.butcd to them,
Zion. But having said so much, he would reserve to himself a very innocent threat—they threatened to resign.—
the privilege of replying if necessary to any other observe- ( Laughter.) lie had himself distinctly stated Chit they
tions that might be offered, and move that these petitions be would resign if they could not carry through that Bill,
laid on the talle. which they considered as absolutely necessary for the wel-
Lord BROUG II AM was quite certain of one thing, fare of the country.—(llear, bear.) Now he ( Lord
that however their I archships might differ from his Noble Brougham) must further correct his Noble Friend. Ile
Friend, who had 'j elaborately supported the prayer of thought he lied been a little too severe upon the other
these petitions, thsezwould receive diem with that atten- House of Parliament, in stating that that. House had
tion_permit him to add—with that respect and considcra- fallen into universal, aul not unmerited, contempt. Even
lion, with which their Lordships were ever ready to if it were true, he had gone too far in saying so.
erect the respectful prayers of their countrymen. . Earl STA N HOPE—I did not say that. I stated that
The importance of their subject the vast meet- they had now lost, if they had ever enjoyed, the confid, nee
ing at which one of them was agreed to, with of the country, and that " I would not say they bad fallen
singular unanimity—he meant the Manchester meet- into universal and unmerited contempt."
ting, at ' which 300.000 persons were present—the Lord BROUGHAM—Oh, I Leg pardon. That was
great assent given in other parts of the country to the pro- just another way c-f saying the same thing.—( Laughter,
ceedings of that meeting, the anxiety which prevailed and hear, hear.) if an Indictment had been taken out
over all the manufacturing districts, without any ex- egainst a man for using such language, it would run thus.
ception, but particularly in the North and in Scotland, Ile said, " I will not say they have fallen into universal
upon this subject, and the countless numbers who had and merited contempt," then and there meaning to any so ;
Sent their petitions elsewhere to be presented precisely to and that it was so, and then and thereby he did say
the same effect, upon the same grounds—the yet greater so—the fact being notorious.—( Loud laughter, and Hear,
number that had even signed these petitions, which there hear.) lie ( Lord B.) was sure that every kind of person,
was reason to believe agreed in their prayer, he was per- or at least every kind of opinion, was represented in that
fectly certain Would, even if his Noble Friend had House. True there was an overwhelming party there in
not recommended it by his statements and Isis favour of the New Poor-law, as there was in this House_
arguments have secured for the petitioners, their and there was a reieectable, though very small minority
Lordships' most respectful attention.—( Hear, hear.) against it. But as for thinking that the ether House do-
Thongh he might entertain some doubt—though he could minecrecl over the country, or exercised a strong arm over
not probably agree in all the doctrines broached by the the people represented or unrepresented, nothing could be
Noble Esrl—diere was one in which he could not hesitate moat! absurd. Why they were the most diffident set of
fer one moment in agreeing most fully with, viz his care people that could be found anynhere. They hardly
and feeling for the unrepresented peop'e. It was a pain- ever ventured to express an opinion—the mere expression
ful ditty fur those who prepared the Reform Bill—it was a of the inclination of an opinion was enough to satisfy them.
Painful duty to thOse who helped and assisted in carrying One day they showed theit inclination by a majotity of five,
''' through Parliament—it was a very painful, but a neces- another by a majority of two.—( Laughter.) Surely those
Bary duty to drawestrell se fine as would of ,neceFsity exclude Members were anything but dogmatical —( Laughter.),
4 great majority from the exercise of the franchise. They They seemed to be oppressed and overwhelmed by en-com-
bed adopted les property qualification, but they had all stances of extreme difficulty. They never expressed a
along felt that it :would be necessary to extend the fran- strong opinion—but no doubt the Government would go
ehise; the y'all aleng knew that they excluded many from on better with a majority of two, than a majority of two to
the elective franchise who were as well qualified to exer- one.---( Laughter.) They might be unfortunate, but he
cite it as many of the 101. householders. ' Still they felt must repeat. he thought the words- "universal and unme-
it at that time necessary to draw a line, until sons • • d
were frilled out of reducing the immense'means rite contempt" too strong an expression to apply to them.
a candidate was liable,had adopted'
ex to' which As for the petitions now before the House, he ( Lord B.)
lification. and they had adopted the 10/. qua- attached the utmost importance to them. He was glad his
It, however, was not true that there existed in Noble Friend had entered at ela g into this subject, for he
the minds of the framers of that Bill any idea of i s being thought they were entitled to the- fullest consideration their
a final measure—it was rest consistent with truth to say, it Lordships could give them, for they spoke the sentiments
.
was the very reverse of truth to say that all the framers of of a vast majority of the working classes—of all the unre-
that Bill; to 'say that all the advocates of the Bill ever for presented classes without exception—( Hear, hear, from
a moment intended that it should be a final measure—nay, Lord Stanisope)—of those who were for secret voting,
he could answer for one who took a deep interest in the provided Universal Suffrage were extended to them—hut
' Bill, that during the whole time it was under discussion he above all, and before all, of those who were determined by
entertained a decided opinion that the measure would all peaceful and legal means to work out such political
require very great 1 xtension. He most positively denied improvements in their political circumstances as should
that the Reform Bill was introduced as a final measure ; extend to them the right of voting. From the communi-
he denied that it was thought to be so by its framers, or cations he had for some time held with those parties, he
by those who took a principal part in passing it could say that the opinions expressed in the petitions wsere
through the House.—( Hear, hear ) He splice with a the opinions, without hesitation and without exception,: of
particular remembrance of what were the feelings and what the working classes.---(llear, hear.) fie ( Lord B )
the uttered language of one who, from his position in the would not use the language of intimidatiou. He differed
Cabinet, was entitled to some consideration—the Chancel- from the Noll t Lent as to any danger of a revolution. lie
for of 1832, who had a considerable share in the freming , had not the slightest apprehensions of a revolution. So
of the all—who took a considerable share in the advocacy ' far was he from thinking with the Noble Lord that revolts.
of it while it was passing through that House—the Chan- tion was advancing to their gates, he was convinced that
cellar, on the 10th of April, 1832, said he had no doubt of the people of this country had Never beer, generally in a
the propriety of extending the elective franchise to other more peaceable state or disposition, and thi3'eseneral peace-
classes—nay, to classes much lower than any to which the ful disposition was proved by the confined extent of the
franchise was given by the Bill, according as the people late local out-bre ,ks, for there the spark was struck, the
became educated. Those who said that was a final mea- fuel collected, but the fire did not spread.—( Ilea:, hear,)
sure, must admit that it was not so considered by the All that had been done in the north, and more recently in
Cabinet in their collective capacity. The doctrine of the west of Scotland, had fully demonstrated that the
finality would have been better'pleadei in 1832, for then really disaffected, the real lovers of mischief—those
the Legislature were granting a great boon to the who were anxious for revolution, aid for breaking the
People—that doctrine seemed-to grow and gain strength peace, and for carrying out their views by unlawful means,
from that which ought to have uprooted it—it was becom- were a scanty and insignificant number, and incomparably
ing stronger just as the people were getting better quell- less in point of importance or respectability of any sort
fled for the exercise of the right. A year and a halt ago than those whose opinions were expressed in the petitions
be ( Lord Brougham) had entered his protest against the presented by the Noble Lord. But those circumstances,
doctrine in that place—lie had followed the course so far from diminishing the claims of the petitioners upon
a Noble Friend. of his had .taken. His Noble Friend the House, ought to be the very facts which should incline
appealed in a pamphlet, to which allusion had been their Lordships only to weigh well their statements, but at
made, to his constituents, and he (Lord Brougham) on the earliest opportunity to grant the prat; er'orthe peti-
the part of the Parliamentary Reformers, replied to tioners.—( Hear, hear, hear.) ,
that pamphlet ;he threw out as he hoped a sort of bridge Lord MELBOURNE was not very food of those useless
over which his Noble Friend might re-pass, and join discussions—( Hear, hear)—which he regarded as mere ex-
once more his reforming friends. Well, he hoped that ercitations which-led to no useful result—and he thought
his feeble arguments had done some good ; there was it a departure from the early practice of Parliament of
much joy cut of the House, there was much joy in the generally confining one's ebservations to a statement of the
House among the friends of Parliamentary Reform ; facts of a petition, and of tame principal circumstances con-
much was the exultation because the doctrine of finality fleeted with it, such as the respectability of a meeting which
was thrown overboard—the Ballot was to be made an adopted a petition. Yet, considering the nature of the
open question. Thus time passed on, but very shortly petitions described by the Noble Lord who presented them,
their tears of joy were turned into those of bitter woe, and descanted upon by the Noble Lord who spoke last—
for that question was made an open one for the purpose considering the great body from whom the petitions came,
not of hastening that measure to become the law of the and the number of men by whom those Opinions were en-
land, but for the purpose of opposing it. Plain men like tcrtained, though he apprehended those opinions did not
him had the folly to believe that alien thin) orlorty men prevail to that extent mentioned by his Noble and
were told they might vote in favour of a measure which Learned Friend—( Hear, hear)—still considering that
would naturally increase the minority, they had the fully those opinions extensively pervaded the working classes and
to suppose that by so doing they were hastening the were most sedulously inculcated and circulated amongst
measure; but no such thing, there were those who by them by those who had weight with them, so much so,
increasing minorities were opposing the measure ; indeed, that it must have been by a, miracle that they did
" thee it was to defeat the measure by increasing the mi- not prevail to a much lsrger extent; and upon this ac
nority, possibly till it came to within five one day or two count he could admire nettling more than the steady and
the next. Let them go on, for it was very often the firm good sense of the majority of the people of this coon-
case that a aisjority of two was turned into a minority, try, exposed as they had been to the grossest rwisrepre-
The Government said to themselves, "we may give our sentations, to the most violent temptations, to the most
friends liberty to vote against us, but we are so popular— stimulating descriptions of grievances, all of which had
we are so strong—we are so Much respected out of doors been referred to the mad administration of the Govern-
and so well-supported in—that let us only vote against it, ment of this country, and which grievances it had been
and there is no doubt wit will, by increasing the minority, repeatedly stated, might be most easily remtetdioiciht
dg -- .
defeat the question." The Ballot was made an open ques-
of delaying its being carried ivato a ( Hear, hear.) Considering all those grounds, he thought
tion for the purposethat the petitions presented by the Noble Earl
law. That was a new doctrine, which his humble plain were justly entitled to the serious consideration of their
sense could never have dreamt of. He was alarmed et Lordships. lie could not but be astonished that con-
such conduct—he feared it was crafty—be could not help sidering the exertions that had Leen made by active
thinking thht those who left a question open for the pur• agents to excite the people of th:.s country, so small an
pose of gratifying its friends, and at the same time pleasitg effect had been produced. lie however thought the Noble
its bitterest enemies—lie was not sure .that those who Lord had not done wrong in dwelling upon the statements
showed such friendship to the measure for the purpose of of these petitions and in urging the arguments they had
strangling it, might not bestow another Iscariot embrace heard. He must nevertheless say, that if he (Lord Mel
upon some of the other popular measures which he thought bourne) were one of those who attended those meeings,
necessary for the welfare of the country._( Laughter.) and had eigned those petitions presented by the Noble
His opinion' upon the question of the Suffrage lisd been Earl, he should not be quite satisfi-d with the manner in
All who were capable of well and honestly often stated. which the Noble Earl had just discharged the duty which
voting—creditably to themselves and leneficially to the those whom he represented had imposed upon hitn. For
country—should be allowed to exercise the franchise. the Noble Earl bad disapproved of every one of the objects
lie cared not that many who were now electors were die- in the petitions. Annual Parliaments, Universil Suffrage,
franchised--the freemen and many of the ten-pound Extension of the Suffrage, were all demanded in the pal-
' householders who were nos, so capable of pro- tions, and all objected to by the Noble Lurd ; and the
perly exercising the important trust, fur trust it latter he would only concede on a principle which would
I was, and no right.—( Hear.) lie would give the fran- not be at all agreeable to those who signed the petitions._
chise to all who were capable of using it with respecter (Hear. hear.) The Noble Earl would confine the eaten-
bitity of conduct and usefully to the House of Commons. sion of the suffrage to certain classes, thereby making
The B allot, secret voting, if unaccomp tnicd by a great new distinctions in the society of this country. With re-
extension of the-frenchise, would do no more than perpe. , spect to those opinions of the Noble Earl, he agreed for
tuate the right of those who were now checked in its exer- the most part with him. He (Lord Melbourne) would not
cisc by the unrepresented. At present the man who imitate his Noble and Learned Friend,by going into a history
i
votes discharges a public duty—adopt Secret noting, of the Reform Bill, but be agreed with him that the word fi-
end they would at once remove all restraint nality was not to be found in our language—he could not
from those who now eeeteised the franchise under the and it any dictionary—and he was sure that the word was
controul—the moral controul of the unrepresented. . By i never used by his Noble Friend elsewhere (Lord J. Russell)
the present system of voting, the unrepresented indirectly ini the sense it was animadverted upon here. Ile was sure
PsrticiPsted in the franchise, The Ballot in such a case his Noble Friend thought with him that no Bill of Parlia•
. . would
ebe an injury, and no* improvement. As respected mcnt, that no human measure could be framed in that
the . par ment of Members and the property qualification, fixed, solid, and decisive manner that, after exoeriment, it
he , oueli t they were hardly worthy of observation. But should not require alteration. He was sure that t his Noble
' hthem-ether qu th.ion, the shortening the duration of Parlia. Friend—he was certain that'll° mar, of sense, could be of
---te--Masstrahhe strongly favoured. _ lie could not _agree to make opinion that a measure eaneeframeelits Parliament ahoultiebe