The Sun.
London, England, 1863-07-23 00:00:00

GREAT POLISH DEMONSTRATION,

The Russian Reply to the French Despatch.

The‘ following is a translation of the Russian
reply to the despatch of the French Government on
the affairs of Poland. It is addressed by Prince
Gortschakoff to Baron de Bndberg, the Russian
Ambassador at Paris :

St. Petersburg,, July let (14th), 1863.
" I have received from the Duke of Montebello
communications of a despatch, of which a copy is
enclosed, from the Minister of Foreign Affairs of
France.

" We appreciate the sentiments that have induced
the Government of his Majesty the Emperor of
the French to apprise us of his wishes for the speedy
settlement of the troubles that agitate the kingdom
of Poland. We are rejoiced to see that the Cabinet
of the Tuileries equally does justice to the spirit in
which we replied to its first communication.
" This spirit did not spring merely from the
desire to satisfy a wish that was expressed to us
in the most friendly form. It was also dictated by
the moral solidarity which exists between the great
Powers in face of the action, more and more evi-
dent, of the revolutionary elements of every coun-
try that aro now concentrated in the kingdom of
Poland, and constitute the European character of
the question.
" We must so much the more impress this fact
on the attention of the Government of the Emperor
Napoleon, because one of the principal centres of
this agitation is Paris itself. The Polish emigra-
tion, taking advantage of its social relations, has
there organised a vast conspiracy, destined in one
direction to mislead public opinion in France by a
system of defamation and calumnies without
example; in another, to foment the disorders in
the kingdom, either by the terror of a secret
committee, or by inspiring a belief in an active
external intervention in favour of the most violent
ideas of the insurrection.

" This influence is—now the principal source of an
agitation that, without it, would be extinguished
by the operation of the laws and the indifference or
the hostility of the masses. In this influence, then,
must be sought the moral cause that tends to pro-
long. the painful state of things of which the French
Government expresses a wish for an early cessation
in the name of peace and humanity. We are
strongly disposed to believe that it will not permit
its name to be abused to the advantage of revolu-
tion in Poland and Europe. These • considerations
determined the character of the communication we
have addressed to the Cabinet of the Tuileries ; they
equally define the object and the extent of the ideas
we have asked it to exchange with us. When
order in a country is seriously disturbed the neigh-
bouring States cannot remain indifferent; other
Powers may, doubtless, interest themselves on be-
half of the general security. But a positive right
in this respect can be founded only on the stipula-
tions of existing treaties. This is why we must
exclude, even from an interchange of friendly ideas,
every allusion to portions of the Russian empire to
which no special stipulation of any international
act applies.
"In what regards the Kingdom of Poland, the
Minister for Foreign Affairs has entered into our
own views, in communicating his ideas of the means
which, in his opinion, would bring about the pacifi-
cation of the country. We recognise with satisfac-
tion that these ideas have the same direction as the
intentions of his Majesty the Emperor, as I ex-
plained them in my despatch of the 14th of April,
addressed to the Baron de Brunnow, a copy of Which
your excellency was instructed to deliver to M.
Drouyn de Lhnys.
" The French Minister of Foreign Affairs admits
himself that several of these measures form part of
the plan our august master had traced. I will add,
that the greater number of them have already been
decreed by order of the Emperor, or prepared by
later developments on which his Majesty has re-
served his decision ; but their principle has been
clearly indicated.

" I must, nevertheless, state that experience has
proved to demonstration how illusory it would be
to rely on the efficacy of these combinations for the
moral pacification of Poland before• material order
and respect fot authority have been re-established.
" As long as the present disorders continue, as
long, above all, as the hope of an intervention from
without, which is the moat powerful support of the
insurrection, exists, this position of affairs will in-
evitably have the effect, on one aide, of seriously
impeding the application of every measure taken
by the Imperial Government ; and, on the other, to
cause their rejection by the Polish insurgents, even
should they receive all the extension indicated by
the Foreign Minister of France. Certainly it is not
the shades, more or less distinct, that the six articles
mentioned by M. Drouyn de Lhuys introduce into
the amnesty—an administrative independence and
a national representation, already established in part
of the kingdom, that will induce the insurgents to
lay down their arms. They will rather see in them
another step towards the constant object of their
hopes and efforts, which is to lead the sympathies
expressed for them abroad to an active intervention
in favour of their most exaggerated aspirations.
They will see in them, consequently, an encourage-
ment to persist in their present attitude. The con-
clusion they would draw from them would be
diametrically opposite to the result proposed. It
would tend to prolong and envenom the painful
position of affairs to which the solicitude of the
French Government, as well as that cf the Imperial
Cabinet, wishes to set a speedy term.
" We find, besides, two other ideas in the despatch
of M. Drouyn de Lhnys—tbat of a provisional paci-
fication, based on the maintenance of the military
status quo, and that of a conference of the eight
Powers who signed the General Act of Vienna in
1815.

As to the first, however ardent may be our de-
sire to see the cessation of bloodshed, we have some
difficulty to conceive the practical value of this
Suggestion. We believe that the French Govern-
ment would feel no less difficulty than ourselves in
defining the character, the extent, and the mode of
carrying out any negotiation having the object of
determining a military status quo, which evidently
cannot exist between a legally constituted Govern-
ment, supported by a regular army, and a secret
committee, based on terrorism, proceeding by
crimes and served .by bands of rebels dispersed in
the forests., Between such elements there can be
only one transaction consistent with the necessity
of order, the dignity of the Emperor, and the senti-
ments of the Russian people and army ; this is the
insurgents. When that has taken
place our august master will consult the prom ptings
of his clemency, without
any,
other limit than the
strictest duties of the goTere•
"As to the second an gn:
ggestton
ference,—we in no that of a Con-
way dispute the right of the
Con-
Powers signing the Treaty of vienna to interpret,
according to their own conviction, the terms of the
act in which they have concurred..
I
si Though everything has been said 0-, Article
of this treaty without leading to any Practical re-
sult, we are still disposed to receive in a spirito
conciliation and respect the views `that may be 00,„,
municated to us by the ordinary channel of diplo-
matic relations.

" But an appeal to a Conference would much ex.
ceed the limits of this right of interpretation. Such
an assembly, having for its object an examination of
questions connected with the most intricate details
of internal administration, would be an interference
that a great power can the less admit, that it is
neither in the spirit nor the letter of the existing
treaties. Far from contributing to the settlement
proposed, it would only render the insurgents more
intractable and the Government less respected.
" The course followed in 1815 appears to us to in-
dicate clearly enough the nature of the deliberations
that may be established on questions touching, on
one side, a general interest, and on the other, or the
administrative details of the domains exclusivcly
bolenging to the Sovereign States on the frontier.
A distinction is now drawn, practically, between
these two kinds of interests. The first have been
the object of separate negotiations between the
Courts of Russia, Austria, and Prussia, between
which historical traditions, permanent contact, and
immediate vicinity have created a close solidarity.
All the arrangements for the regulation of the in-
ternal administration of the mutual relation of tars
Polish territories placed by the Congress of Vienna

under the respective Governments are specified in
the sepitate treaties concluded directly between the
three Courts on April 21, 1815. They have been
successively completed in a series of special conven-
tions, whenever circumstances required. The general
principles mentioned in these treaties which might
have an interest for Europe are inserted only in the
Act of the Congress of Vienna, signed on May 27,
1815, by all the Powers required to concur in it.

" These general principles are not now in ques-
tion, but the administrative details and the internal
arrangements would usefully furnish matters for
discussion between the three Courts, for the purpose
of placing the respective position of their Polish pos-
sessions, to which the stipulations of the Treaty of
1815 extend, in harmony with present necessities
and the lapse of time. The Imperial Cabinet
declares itself ready to enter into such an under-
standing with the Cabinets of Vienna and Berlin.

" You cannot repeat too often that the issue of the
lamentable position that occupies us, no less than
the Government of the Emperor of the French,
must be sought on our side, and, above all, in the
benevolent and enlightened views, inspired in our
august master by the anxiety his Majesty expresses
for the welfare of the Kingdom of Poland, as well
as that of the rest of the empire ; and on the other,
in the combined influence the great Powers should
exercise, morally, to disconcert the plots of a party
that seeks the total confusion of the European
Continent.
" Beyond these indispensable elements of a prac-
tical solution, there is nothing but dangerous mis-
understandings for the future of the Kingdom of
Poland and the general peace, or the criminal in•
trigues of a party ready to sacrifice the repose of its
country and Europe to the realisation of its most
chimerical plans,
" Nothing wouli be more prejudicial to the work
of order and concidation that engages the attention
of the Cabinets, than a disagreement between them;
nothing can better promote it than their good un-
derstanding.

" This is why we have expressed to the Emperor
of the French the desire to obtain this good under-
standing by friendly explanations. The shades that
distinguish our mutual appreciations are not so dis-
tinct that we ought to renounce this hope. It gives
us satisfaction to find an additional pledge for it in
the sagacity with which his Majesty the Emperor
appreciates the interests of France and Europe, no
less than in the confidence the French Minister of
Foreign Affairs expresses with regard to all the acts
of the reign of our august master.

" You will read this despatch to M. Drouyn de
Lhnye, and leave a copy of it with his Excellency,
" Receive, M. le Baron, the assurance, &c.,
GORTSCHAKOFF."

Newsvendors' Benevolent and Provident
Institution.

The twenty-fourth annual festival of this institution was
celebrated on Tuesday evening, at the Freemasons' Tavern,
under the presidency of Mr. Benjamin Webster, supported
by Mr. Mark Lemon, Mr. Watkin, Mr. W. S. Johnson,
Mr. Borlase Child, and Mr. Leger. About one hundred
friends of the institution sat down to an excellent dinner,
and several ladies were among the guests at the table on this
interesting occasion.
The usual loyal toasts hiving been gracefully introduced
and heartily responded to,
Ma. BORLASE CHILD spoke to the toast of" The Army
and Navy," and Mr..MARK LEMON, " one of the fullest
privates in the service" as he described himself, returned
thanks for " The Volunteers," pointing to the glories of
Wimbledon as an illustration of the very effective manner
in which foreigners who attempted to invade our shores
might naturally expect to be " peppered" on beating, as
they assuredly would, a hasty retreat.

The CHAIRMAN then proposed the toast of the evening,
" Prosperity to the Ncwsvendors' Benevolent and Provident
Institution." He said—Had I been on my own ground,
that is, dramatic ground, I should not feel so nervous as to
my ability to do sufficient justice to what is termed the
toast of the evening-L(hear, hear)—the advocacy of the in-
stitution for the interests of which we are here assembled.
Remembering who have filled the honourable post—first and
foremost my friend, Mr, Charles Dickens, a host in himself
—it is not affectation to say I know, by comparison, my task
to be a very responsible one ; but, as Dogberry says, " Com-
parisons are odorous"—(laughter)—so do not, for my sake,
think of the past, but the future—of those who may need
your help ; consequently, I shall not endeavour to interest
your feelings on the bygone exertions of newsvendors of the
Acta Diurna of ancient Rome, nor the Gazette of Vienna of
the 16th century ; nor the English. Mercury of the time of
good Queen Bess, published by authority for the contradic-
tion of false reports, though Mercury is presumed to be the
father of lies, So that even then all was not true because
it was in the papers. (Laughter.) Nor for the vendors of
the first weekly newspaper in 1622 ; nor for those who cir-
culated the quarto-sized papers during Charles the First's
rule—one called " Discoverers Stript Naked, which I trust
will not be the fate of Messrs. Speke and Grant—nor the
sellers'of the first daily; of Queen Anne's reign, nor the first
country newspaper in 1706, published at Norwich, and
called the "Norwich Postman," at the price of one penny,
but stating that a halfpenny would not be refused—(hear,
hear)—which fact informs us that penny and halfpenny
newspapers date back for more than 150 years; and how
they did it for the money without the aid of machinery
appliances is curious to contemplate. These ere of the
past. But I shall, if not " bestowing all ray tedious-
ness on you," come to the immediate purpose of our
meeting. In 1838, the year before this institution was
founded, the annual sale of newspapers was nearly sixteen
millions. Since that time it is not exaggerated to assume
that that number must have quadrupled, which would give
considerably over 60,000,000 of newspapers circulated
through the agency of newsvendors to the public in a year.
Therefore the institution is one which ought to enlist the
sympathies of every class that loves its country and its po-
sition in the world, (Hear, hear.) To know that every
day, in every house of this vast metropolis, a paper can be
furnished containing the news of what is passing, not only
of our own home and the United Kingdom, but throughout
the civilised and uncivilised world almost to the hour of
our Waking in the moaning for our daily avocation—to know
that the news is forwarded to every village, town, and city of
this kingdom, and every country on earth, and all through
the untiring and indefatigable agency of the newsvendor, is
a claim that is irresistible on the bounty of the public.
What would become of Reuter's Telegrams; what would
become of that intellectual analysis of events with which
our public press enlighten mankind, but for these agents of
universal dissemination—the newsvendors ?To them we not
only owe the chief comfort of our morning meal, but the in-
formation and guide for our daily mercantile and political
operations, which have tended to make this the chief nation
of the world. Are we not, bound then, high and low, to
take into our dearest consideration the early and late toil
of those who conduce to all these ends ?—when it is known
that at the early hour of the morn when many sleep at their
ease, dependent upon their success on the knowledge they
derive, after a good night's repose, from those who are
obliged to steal rest by snatched moments from their cares,
and who, exposed to the inclemency and every variation of
the seasons, engender those ills to which man is heir. Who
has not woke up with a species of delight at a railway
station when the clear shrill treble of a poor boy cries out
"Morning paper 1" and who has not rushed to his door
at the cry of " Second edition," " Great victory,"
" Invasion," or " Defeat of the Ministry ?" and all these
sensations are provided youine o
byr
rain.the n I
newsvendors, wet
ywvetoioere
dry, frost or snow, sunshine
were trumpet-tongued and cosmopolitan, that
doir. I
it mighteol
spread far and wide the claims of the
confident I have only to appeal to the ladies, either here or
not here, to enlist:their sympathies for the worn and unfor-
tunate newsvendor when our better halves, or those in-
tended to be so, remember the daily pleasure afforded
through such agency of conning over the births and mar-
riages, though by a singular newspaper arrangement the
births always come before the marriages ; then the absorb-
ing interest of murders, brutal treatment of husbands, with
the just punishment of six months , the suicides, fires, ship.
wrecks, railway accidents, breaches of promise,and the trials
in that peculiar court of domestic infelicity where union is
not strength nor a united service. Touch but a woman's
heart
on such a theme as this and out of it will well up
sec feeling that will open the hand to melting charity and
iciallluurededEntheebei; piannitrodpupoes: over the ruder sex'; and there is no
u so powerful to do likewise. The Chairman con-
heve°tioelaistt been PLtuirospkervit6yth.tgro
ethatee:nNtheuwasiasvemnd, ors'
Ben Provident Institution. (Cheers.)
The Rev, Itlr. ng DA' Ax eloquently proposed " The health
of Mr. Charles Dickens, Presidentth of the Society."
Mr. M. LEMON spoke to
of
gave " The Health of the Cheeitrmoaastn,Chairman,"" The Press," and
which was enthu-
oposed " The Health of the Vice-Presi-
siasreie
pdr.
Mr.ti ca
REDDISHIiy ee
delnntstahnedeTourusree of the
evenin
of £lOO were acknowledged, crg
subs to the amount

[AD VERTISEMENT.]—HoIIoway'
and Pi 119,-
87intraerit
No Risk.—When the surgeon shakes his head, and the
patient feels daspmdent, is the fittest time to
ryite,hese.
noble remedies. Inflammations, sores, eruptions
ra
tions, and a far longer list of external tortures can ulcers_
be cured by these incomparable medicaments. If the
cure
s
be not always rapid, it will always be complete, and leave
behind no danger of relapse. That this ointment exerts
the most cooling, soothing, and healing powers over the
most irritable, painful, and chronic sores is an established
fact, which is daily confirmed by the unsolicited testimony
of sympathising patients, whom (to use their own expres-
sive phrase) Holloway's ,remedies have rescued from the
very verge of death.

Last evening a meeting in favour of the cause of
Poland was held at St. James's Hall, Piccadilly,
and Was most numerously attended. Sir S. V.
Shelley, Bart., M.P., occupied the chair, and
theam Hon.ongs
amongst those
Wynn,epresentAwire.rpe
.SAir.
Taylor,HA M. P
Hoare,
, B Gen.ar t.
Count Zamoyski, Major Gulgud, MajorSzulcyew-
ski, the Rev. Dr. Worthington,. Rev. Dr. Eaton,
U.S., Mr. L. G.
m
Adolpbus,r. P. A. B
Mr.Vigunrer:
Francis (New York),
Mr. Wim-
pir.ißes:
Barry
Polish Mr. M, umlvra.nsyo,seMphr. J. Baxter
Franklin,L
the
Langley,
Frenchr, d. M
Ar..
mNi cl ohl ay ,
committee
were
&c. A deputation t i
present.
The h
The CHAIRMAN, in opening the proceedings, read
de
also
lts
a number of letters from the Marquis Townshend,
Lord Ilchester, Mr. R. B. Sheridan, M.P., Sir
Harry Verney, M.P., Mr. Harvey Lewis, M.P.,
and others, regretting their inability to attend, but
expressing their sympathy with the movement. He
then said that it must be most congenial to the feel-
ings of every lover of freedom and liberty to find
that such meetings were held as that he now pre-
sided over. (Hear, hear.) They could freely
boast of their free institutions in this free country,
and their object in meeting that night was to ex-
press their feelings as Englishmen in sympathy
with that spirited and unfortunate people now at-
tempted to be trodden down by the Russian Em-
peror. The question, so called the Polish ques-
tion, was not a new one, for it had been for
many years surging to the surface, and had threa-
tened the peace of Europe. Therefore there could
be no doubt that they as Englishmen were justified
in meeting in large numbers and expressing their
sympathy with those who were struggling to free
themselves from the unbearable yoke which was
now upon them. Earl Russell had stated in the
House of Lords that the spirit of the Polish people
would never die out, and he (the chairman) hoped
that it never would die. (Applause.) That hope
alone fully justified them in heartily and cordially
expressing their sympathy with a people who for a
century had been oppressed and trampled upon. He
was rejoiced in this crisis to hear of these meetings,
not only for the cause of Poland, but because he felt
that the peace and welfare of Europe were involved.
He had no hesitation in saying that the manner in
which the Poles had been treated amounted to a
great crime. England had not taken of the spoil
he admitted, but she had stood by and seen the spoil
taken ; in fact it was a great blot on her escutcheon
—(applause)—and it was for us to wash our hands
clean of it. (Hear.) He said that it was the duty
of every man to lose no time—looking to the liberty
of the country—in telling Russia that politically
and diplomatically under the treaty, she (Russia)
had not scrupled to trample on the Poles, and, there-
fore, she had now no claim to Poland. They should
tell the ministers that it was their duty to see that
the peace of Europe was maintained, and above all
that the honour of the country must never be for-
gotten. He believed that such meetings as the
present would tend to add strength to the hands of
the Government. (Hear.) He had been asked if, for
the sake of Poland, he would have the country go
to war again. He thought if her Majesty's mini-
sters took steps in this matter they would be sup-
ported by her Majesty's subjects. (Cheers.) He
therefore hoped that steps would be taken to relieve
the oppressed from their oppressors. In conclusion
he said he had great pleasure in introducing a de-
putation from the working men of Paris. (Renewed
cheering, during which the members of the depu-
tation advanced to the front of the platform and
amidst loud applause shouted " Vive la Pologne").
Mr. EDMUND BEALES then moved the following
resolution :—" That the devoted and self-sacrificing
heroism of the Poles in their previous struggles in
defence either of their own rights or of the liberties
of other nations, as well as in their present struggle
for„the recovery of the freedom and independence
of their country, entitles them to the warm and
active affection and support of every free people,
while the atrocious conduct of the Russians in their
past misrule and oppression of Poland, and in the
war they are now waging for its renewed subjuga-
tion, is an insult to Christendom and an outrage on
humanity." He was glad that the resolution
pledged the meeting to something like active as-
sistance. The time had gone by for offering mere
sympathy to Poland, and it was now for them to
give the Poles that support which they had a right
to receive at their hands. That unhappy people
had been treated by the Russians with a savagery
unparalleled in the annals of history. Her sons had
been dragged to the scaffold because they had loved
and fought for their country, and Poland's daugh-
ters had been subjected to the knout because they
bad loved and mourned for their country. He re-
pudiated the immoral doctrine that was advocated
in high quarters, that England might interfere for
the Poles, but that they had no moral obligation to
do so. He denied that. (Cheers.) England had
a mighty obligation to assist Poland. (Hear, hear.)
She had once interfered in 1515 for the sake of
maintaining peace, and though we stipulated for a
constitution for that country, it was no sooner
given on paper than it was violated in substance.
We, therefore, not only confirmed the partition of
Poland, but gave Russia a much larger share of it.
(Cheers.) The working men of France had addressed
a memorial to the Emperor, which ended with these
remarkable words—" Sire, let the sword cut what
diplomacy is powerless to solve," and in that he
entirely concurred. He hoped he had said enough
to convince them that the time was come when
they should give to Poland more substantial
assistance than mere sympathy. (Loud cheers.)
He trusted the resolution would meet with their
hearty and unanimous concurrence. (Load cheer.)
Mr. G. ODGERS seconded the resolution.
Mr. FRANKLIN supported the resolution. It was
put and carried amid great enthusiasm.

Mr. IV. CREMER, joiner, then proposed the second
resolution, which was as follows :—" That this meet-
ing deprecates all negotiation with Ruesia on the
subject of Poland, except upon the basis of the im-
mediate cessation of the hostilities now raging, the
withdrawal of the Russian troops from every part
of the Polish soil, and the establishment of a separate
and independent Polish State, and is convinced that
if an armed intervention should become necessary
for effecting these objects the sacrifice which such
intervention might entail upon the English people
would be cheerfully borne by them."
Sir H. HOARE seconded the resolution, and said
he was at first proud of the man who held the reins
of our foreign affairs when he took up the cause of
Poland, but he must say that he was equally dis-
appointed and disgusted at the infamously low tone
of the position he took up. (Hear, hear.) He fel(
that the British public was far in advance of the
House of Commons—(hear, hear)—and also of many
noble lords of the other house, but he was sure that
there were some members of the Government who
were willing to support the English demand by
force of arms, and only wanted the public support
to carry out their views. (Hear, hear.) If the House
of Commons would not listen to the voice of the
people, he hoped that they would remember that
this was the fifth year of the present Parliament.
(Hear, hear.) He hoped that political cowardice
would not allow the Government to abandon the
Poles.

The resolution was then carried unanimously.
General ZAMOYSKI then addressed the meeting.
He was received with the utmost enthusiasm, and
said it was no easy task for a Pole to address a
meeting while his countrymen were fighting far
from him. (Hear, hear.) But it was a duty he had
to perform, and he had yielded to the solicitation
of the leading gentlemen on the platform. (Hear,
hear.) He thanked all those present for the
expression of their feelings in favour of Poland,
and he trusted that it would have an important
effect upon the destiny of his bleeding, fighting
country. (Cheers). With regard to the diplomacy
that had been attempted, he knew what the result
would be long before it took place. If the rebuff
were bitter to bear it did not follow that it was to
be borne patiently. But while that negotiation
was going on his country was bleeding, and he
; . they
therefore had a right to ask that if we did not help
them we
should at least not injure them. The
struggle that Was now going on must be settled be-
tween themselves must fight for their free-
dom and gain
it by the strength of their arms.

(Cheers.) He called on England not to assist Russia
by counteracting their unlawful possession of
Poland. Let the English Government say to Russia
We sanctioned your possession of Poland on cer-
tain conditions; we have waited 50 years for the
fulfilment of those conditions and have waited in
vain, and now we withdraw our sanction to your
retaining that country any longer." Let England
make that declaration, and he would pledge him-
self that by the end of this year every Russian
soldier would be driven out of Poland. (Cheers.)
Let them make that declaration and he was autho-
rised to say that France would follow. (Loud and
prolonged cheering.) Austria was willing for the
reconstruction of Poland, because that would secure
her frontier from the attacks of Russia; but she
was afraid to offend that power until she had some
guarantee against any attack that might be made
upon her. Austria would give up Galicia willingly,
and with the 100,000 which that province yielded
the driving out the Russians from Poland would be
but the work of three mouths. (Cheers.) Ho con-
cluded by urging the people of England to press
their Government to withdraw their sanction to
Russia holding Poland any longer. The gallant
general retired amid enthusiastic applause.
M. Tolain, one of a deputation from the working
men of France, next addressed the meeting.
Mr. M. BARRY, a barrister, moved the following
resolution :—'• That a deputation, consisting of the
chairman and the movers and seconders and sup-
porters of the resolutions adopted at this meeting,
and of such other friends of Poland as may be will-
ing to attend, be appointed to wait upon Earl Rus-
sell, her Majesty's Secretary of State for Foreign
Affairs, and communicate to him such resolutions,
and the purport of the sentiments unanimously ex-
pressed at this meeting."
Mr. STAINSBY seconded the resolution, and it was
carried unanimously. _ _

A vote of thanks to the chairman closed the pro-
ceedings.

TILE BM:MU FORGERIES.

SIXTH DAY.
CHELMSFORD, July 22.
(Before Mr. Baron Channell and a Special Jury.)

ROUPELL AND ANOTHER V. HOWE AND ANOTHER.

The evidence for the defendants was again proceeded
with yesterday morning.
As on the previous day, William Roupell was brought to
the court in custody of two warders, and he took his seat in
the dock, and remained there during the whole of the pro-
ceedings. He appeared to pay close attention to the testi-
mony given by the different witnesses who were examined.
Mr. Serjeant Shee, Mr. Lush, Q.C., Mr. J. Brown, and
the Hon. Mr. Thesiger, appeared for the plaintiffs. Mr.
Bovill, Q.C., Mr. Hawkins, Q.C., and Mr. Garth were for
the defendants.
Mrs. Emma Lovejoy said—l was a tenant of Mr.
Richard Roupell, and received many receipts for rent from
him. (The witness produced a number of the receipts given
by the deceased).
Mrs. Randall, another tenant of the deceased, also pro-
duced receipts for rent. _ _

The amount of papers produced as evidence in the cause
had by this time become enormous, and in order to identify
them every letter in the alphabet had been exhausted,
and the alphabet was recommenced, with figures added.
A large box was placed by the side of the learned judge in
order to receive the different documents.

Mr. Hawkins said that a great number of tenants of the
deceased were in attendance, ready to produce their receipts,
but he did not propose to call the whole of them unless the
learned friends desired to cross-examine any of them, and in
that case any witness he desired should be placed in the wit-
ness box.

The jury appeared to pay particular attention to the evi,.
dente as to the handwriting, and the foreman of the jury
brought with him a very powerful magnifying glass, for the
purpose of being enabled better to examine the different
signatures and compare them with the signatures that were
alleged to be forgeries.
Mr. John Nash, clerk to Messrs. Druce, law stationers,
proved that he was a tenant of the deceased from 1851 to

1856, and was well acquainted with his handwriting. The
signature to the deed of gift was shown to him, and he said
that, to the best of his belief, it was a genuine signature.
Mr. John M'Call, a tenant of the deceased from 1849 to
1856, also expressed his belief that the signature was
genuine. _ _

Cross•-examined—Witness had compared his own receipts
with the signature to the deed, and he noticed that the sig-
natures were diversified as much as possibly could be. He
did not pay particular attention to the flourish at the end of
the word Roupell. It was, of course, possible for him or
any other man to be deceived as to handwriting, but he did
not think he was in this instance.

Mr. W. Steer, also a tenant of the deceased, likewise ex.
pressed a confident opinion that the signature was genuine.
Mr. W. Clark said he was employed to collect some of the
deceased'i rents for 12 years, and had seen him write hun-
dreds of times, and was well acquainted with his handwrit-
ing. He had looked at the signature to the deed of gift, and
he had no doubt it was the handwriting of Mr. Richard
Roupell.

Cross• examined—Witness used to see the deceased gene-
rally every day, and ho was aware that he had made a will,
and had made him executor and trustee, but he did not say
anything about a legacy. In July before his death, the de-
ceased told him to come to his office and see him execute his
will, and he did so. Witness never saw anything more of
that will. On the morning he died witness was sent for,
and he remained in the house until Wm, Roupell and his
mother arrived, and a bed was made up for Wm. Roupell
in the parlour. About two years and a half after the death
of old Roupell, William Roupell gave him £l5O. Witness
had seen the will of Sept. 2, 1854 (the will alleged to be
forged), and believed that the signature to it was genuine.
He never entertained any doubt of the fact,and he certainly
did not shake his head when he first saw it. (A laugh.) He
did express a doubt in the first instance to a gentleman
named Dyke, who resided at Kingston, whether the signa-
ture was genuine. He said that it was a very good imitation,
but that the signature was not genuine, or he did not think
it was his. He went to Mr. Dyke afterwards, accompanied
by Mr. Harvey Linklater, and he told him that if he would
sign some paper or agreement he would guarantee him £l5O
from Mr. Richard Roupell. He was advised by Mr. Dyke
not to sign the paper, and he did not do so. He understood
that the paper he was required to sign contained a renuncia-
tion of the trusteeship under the old will. At first he was
asked to join in the action as a trustee, but he refused, and
then he was asked to renounce the trusteeship.
In answer to a question put by the foreman of the jury,
the witness said that although he had taken some time to
examine the signature, this did not arise from his entertain-
ing any doubt; and in his conscience he believed that the
signature was a genuine signature of Mr. Richard Palmer
Roupell. With regard to the "flourish" to the signature,
he had as often seen him sign his name without that flourish
as with it.

Mr. W. H. Smith, clerk in the drawing department of the
Bank of England, said he had been in the habit of paying
the deceased's cheques for twenty years, and was well ac-
quainted with his handwriting, and he believed the signature
to the deed of gift was the genuine signature of Mr. Richard
Palmer Roupell, and he should pay a cheque upon it. In
the signature of the deceased to their signature book there
was no flourish at all.

Cross-examinnd—Prior to the trial at Guildford he had
given an opinion upon the signatures to several documents
to Mr. Linklater. This was the first time he had seen the
deed of gift. The signature in the signature book was
written by the deceased in 1838, at which time he opened
the account viith the Bank of England. At the Bank of
England the custom would be to judge, from the general
character of the hand writing, whether the signature was
genuine or not; and they would not give any effect to the
fact of the absence or presence of a "flourish" at the end of
the signature.
By the Jury—Witness had seen the deceased at the Bank
of England, but he could not say whether he came there
often or not.

Mr. W. Dudley said he was a solicitor in the Southwark-
bridge-road, and with his partners acted in that capacity for
the deceased for a great many years, and was well acquainted
with hie handwriting. He believed the signature to the
deed of gift was a genuine signature.
Cross-examined--Witness had been commissioned profes-
sionally for the purchase of one portion of the property of
the deceased. Several deeds were then shown to the wit-
ness, and he identified his signature as the attesting wit-
ness to them. They were tho deeds executed by the de-
ceased.

Reexamined—Witness had attested the signature of the
deceased to a great many other deeds than those now pro-
duced.

Mr. Alfred Henwood, clerk and cashier in the London
Joint-Stock Bank, where the deceased also had an account
since 1833, said that ho had, personally, only paid two
cheques of the deceased, but he had compared a great num-
ber of genuine cheques (about 100) with the signature to
the deed of gift, and be was of opinion that this signature
was genuine, and if he had seen it upon a cheque he should
have paid it.
Crose-examined—Witness formed his opinion from a com-
parison of the cheques,ond also from looking at the signature
of the deceased in the signature-Look. He considered there
was no difference between the signatures, and although there
mighc be some slight distinctions in the signatures, the gene-
ral character of the two signatures was precisely the same•
Witness was not an expert. When a cheque was presented,
he did not look for minute particulars, but exercised his best
judgment whether the signature was genuine or not in order
to protect the bank. The witness added that it had for ten
years been the practice to submit doubtful signatures to
him, and he never once failed in the judgment he had given.
Mr. Mills, an engraver, employed in the Bank of England
in engraving bank notes, said that he had had a great deal
of experience M matters connected with engraving and