The Sun.
London, England, 1863-02-07 00:00:00

CHURCH RATES.

Mr. NEWDEGATE gave notice that on a future day he
should introduce a bill to arrange for the commutation of
church rates.

SAILORS' HOMES.

Sir H. STRACEY asked the Secretary to the Admiralty
if it was the intention of the Government to take under its
consideration the subject of sailors' homes generally, with
a view to aid those whose means are not adequate for their
object, and which in its judgment may be deserving of
assistance ?

Lord C. PAGET replied that it was not intended to make
any addition to the vote except the ordinary vote for sailors
in the neighbourhood of dockyards.

BRAZIL—WRECK OF THE PRINCE OF WALES.
Mr. LAIRD asked the Under Secretary of State for
Foreign Affairs, whether her Majesty's Government had
any objection to lay before the house copies of all
correspondence between her Majesty's Government
and Mr. Christie, British Minister in Brazil, and be-
tween Mr. Christie and the Brazilian Government,
relating to the wrecking of the Prince of Wales and the
alleged ill-treatment of three officers of H.M.S. Forte by
the police of Rio Janeiro ; also of any despatch from the
American Minister in Brazil to Earl Russell respecting the
conduct of Mr. Christie, or of Mr. Vereker, late her Ma-
jesty's consul at Rio Grande do Sal?
Mr. LAYARD replied that the papers would be shortly
laid before the house. The hon. gentleman entered at
some length into an explanation. The King of the Bel-
gians would kindly act as arbitrator in the matter. The
Brazilian Government had offered to restore the value of
the Prince of Wales, and the offer had been accepted.
CUSTOMS DUTIES.

-
Mr. F. PEEL intimated that on Monday the Chancellor
of the Exchequer would propose certain resolutions on the
customs duties.
THE QUEEN'S SPEECH.—THE ADDRESS.
On the motion that the Address be brought up,
Mr. BENTINCK adverted to the question of the
cession of the lonian Islands. If he understood the right
hon. gentleman the member for Buckinghamshire, he con-
sidered that in a military point of view it was vitally im-
portant that this country should retain possession of these
islands, Thirty or 40 years ago he might probably have
been of the like opinion, but now, with our screws and
naval power, he could not entertain any such belief. Strong
places with powerful garrisons could alone be of any advan-
tage'; and most assuredly Corfu was not one of them. Malta
and Jamaica are placed ona different footing. These garrisons
are indispensable to the English nation. A great change
of opinion had taken place in this city during the last few
months with respect to American matters. The people
considered that it was utter cant to say that the abolition
or retention of slavery was not the real cause of the war.
'I he recognition of the independence of the Southern States
would be entirely in consonance with the well-grounded
sentiments of the English people. They might all read
a great moral lesson in the lamentable state of things in
America. We beheld the wreck of Democratic institutions,
and to a great extent it was the government of a mob, and
excluded men of talent, honour, and wealth from. office, He
attributed most of the distress in the manufactunngdistricts
to over-speculation, and it was the duty of the house to look
into the matter in order to ascertain whether this was the
real cause of the evil or not. The conduct of the
people had been admirable under their sufferings.
There was dire distress in the metropolis, in various
parts of the country, and especially Ireland, which deserved
relief—one class alone, therefore, ought not to absorb all
the munificent charity of the land ; and the more especially
as the employers of cotton labour had amassed large for-
tunes, and were able to assist their own poor. If the dis-
tress was to some extent attributable to over speculation,
the speculators had much to answer for, and should do their
beet to assuage in. The rural inhabitants of the country
had more than their fair share of taxation, and ho hoped
if the Government were about to make reductions of taxa-
tion that the claim of those people would be well considered.
If they meant to introduce a Reform Bill, those districts
should not be overlooked.
Mr. LOCKE considered that the Government would do
well to introduce a Reform Bill, for representation was the
proper basis of all taxation. The Rating Bill of last
session, which gave parishes in the country power to
borrow money when the rates reached 3s. in the
pound, had not been put in operation by the gentry,
as he believed was generally anticipated when the bill was
passed. Many parishes in London paid even more than
3s. in the pound. It was the equalization of the poor rates
only that would work a sound cure in rating, and he
trusted the subject would be fully ventilated in the present

session of Parliament.
Mr. G. DUFF admired the conduct of the Government
on the American question, and trusted that there would
be a great reduction of expenditure, and likewise several
remissions of taxation. Ho hoped this session the inter-
minable church rate question would be set at rest for ever.
Mr. NEWDEGATE rejoiced if the French treaty had
tended to benefit any class of the community ; but he N't as
sorry to say that it had fallen with peculiar weight upon
his constituents ; a blow had thus been aimed at them
from which he feared they would never recover.
Sir J. ELP II IN ST ONE said he wished in the first place
to make a few remarks with reference to the cession of the
lonian Islands. On that point he could not agree with his

hon. friend the member for Norfolk, and he wished to ask
her Majesty's Government whether they bad considered
. _

the subject in reference to our communications with India.

In the event of a war with France, we should look to the
Adriatic for the means of keeping up communications with
our Indian empire ; and if the lonian Islanis were given
up, they would be occupied by the enemy, or else become
the resort of vessels that would endeavour to cut off onr
communication with India. He could not believe, indeed,
that the cession of the lonian Islands would be otherwise
than detrimental to the interests of this country, and he
_ _

hoped the subject would yet receive very careful considera-

tion. Had the noble lord the Secretary to the Admiralty
been in his place he should have asked him a question With

respect to iron shipbuilding, but he would do so on an early
day. Though those which had been already built were fine
vessels, and they were well reported upon by the admiral on
the Lisbon station, he nevertheless said that their model
was not that which would be finally adopted. Another point
to which he wished to refer was the renewal of the Galway

contract. That circumstance was certainly one of the most
extraordinary in his recollection, for the contract itself had
been perfectly villified by the Government, and one person
had been made a baronet for only holding it up to public
execration. He was curious to know whether the Galway
contract had been renewed in view of a general election after

having been villified for three years, and under what cir-
cumstances the stipulations contained in it had been made,
which were certainly most extraordinary. He found that
the rate of payment varied with the speed from 101 down
to 8 Dots ; but a vessel that could only steam at the rate

of 8 knots in a westerly gale could not do much towards
ensuring the regularity of the mails. He understood that
some important commercial houses had remonstrated against

the renewal of the contract on that very ground. (Hear.)
Sir J. TRELAWNY said he wished to avail himself
of that opportunity of calling the attention of the house to
a question involving a sum of X 500,000, and the conduct of
the Government in reference to appointments in the colonies.
The colony he referred to was New Zealand. If he were to

say that they were spending £500,000 a year there uselessly,
or were engaged in an unjust quarrel with the native chiefs,

he should expect to be counted out; for, on a former occa-

sion of the kind, he had found every possible difficulty thrown
in his way, of which he had great reason to complain. They
professed that the natives of New Zealand should have the

rights of British subjects, yet they were overborne in the

exercise of them, and upon a war breaking out, for which
the public of this country had to pay, complaints from the
colony were unheeded and justice was not done. What he
now specially referred to was the fact that the Government
of this country had guaranteed a loan of £500,000 on evi-
dence given in a committee, and which was the reverse of
the truth. The Governor of New Zealand who took part
in that transaction had been removed from his post, but re-
ceived another appointment, the colony being left mean-

while in a chronic state of disorder. Thus the British Par-
liament became responsible for all this bad Government.

He could assure the house that there was a most serious

case to be inquired into, and that they would be wanting in
duty if redress were not given.
Mr. 1118 BERT, referring to the remarks of the hon. and

learned gentleman the member for Southwark, relative to
the extent to which the Relief Act of last session bad come
into operation in Lancashire and Cheshire, said he wished
to assure the house that its provisions had been already
taken advantage of by some of the Unions, and that, if fair
play were given it, it would enable Lancashire to battle
with its own distress, and extend to other parts of the coun-
try, to Ireland especially, a helping hand. (Hear, hear.)
Sir J. WALSH observed that, if he might be allowed to
employ an Irishism, he might say that the most important
part of the speech lay in its omissions. One of those omis-

sions was with reference to transportation and secondary
punishments. On that subject he would not now dwell,

especially as it was to be inquired into by a Royal commis-
sion ; but he would observe that the matter was a pressing
one, and that he hoped her Majesty's Government would
endeavour, at as early a period of the session as possible, to
lay before the house the evidence which had been taken by
the commission. Another subject which he was glad to see
omitted from the Speech was that of Reform. It appeared
to him that that topic had been wisely dropped by her Ma-
jesty's Government from having become a subject of abso-
lute indifference throughout the country, and no doubt her
Majesty's Government were anxious to avoid any difficul-
ties it might incur by meddling with it. A battle had been
raging in various parts of the country, however,with a view
to ascertain whether there existed a Conservative reaction
or not. For himself ho was prepared to admit that there
was no Conservative reaction. A great number of measures
had been passed during the last 30 years that were more or
less opposed to Conservative principles, but although they
on that side of the house still retained their opinions, they
had no desire to retrace their steps, but were willing to ac-
cept the situation as they found it. There seemed to be a
general wish throughout the country that democratic prin-
ciples should receive no further extension ; and, indeed,there
seemed to be some gentlemen opposite who were inclined to
expect greater concessions to their principles from a Con-
servative Government than from one of their own making.
Bat to them he would say that the Conservative party, whe-
ther in or out of office, had but one thing to do, and that
was to watch over the maintenance of Conservative prin-
ciples. Least of all would it be becoming in that party,
whilst it remained a minority in that house, to seek to place
itself in the position which should be occupied by the Go-
vernment of the country. (Hear, hear.) He believed that
the Conservative party would be again at the head of the
affairs of this country, because he believed they would be
able again to command a majority of the constituencies,
and a majority in that house. That day perhaps was not
far distant ; but, till then, the Conservative party would
not wish again to accept office.
Mr. D. GRIFFITH referred to Greece and the lonian
Islands, and asked how far the proposed arrangement
would tally with the noble lord's policy—traditional on
the part of this country, namely, the maintenance of the
Turkish Empire. It was only a juggle of words and a
shuffling of the cards to pretend that in practice the protec-
torate was in our hands. Giving Greece these islands would
give them the fulcrum for aggression on the Moldavian
Wallachian provinces,and to attack the integrity of Turkey.
Although he concurred in the feeling that dictated their
cession, yet he thought it was fraught with danger. He
doubted the competency of the Crown to give up these
islands without the consent of Parliament. The preroga-
tive of the Crown was to be used as a cloak for the respon-
sibility of Ministers. The question must be considered
open for the consideration and decision of Parliament. He
concurred with the right hon. baronet who last spoke, that
there was no greater delusion than to suppose there was a
reactionin the country. The country would only accept
the services of the Conservative party by their acting in
accordance with a reasonably liberal spirit. The individual
elections that had recently taken place he considered a false
barometer of public opinion. (Hear, hear.) The country
would no doubt support the services of the present Govern-
ment from the people having a great regard for the vene-
rable gentleman opposite, the noble lord at the head of af-
fairs. (Loud laughter.) A Government composed of a
Tory-Ralical cross would completely fail. The turning body
n that house had been described to be those who sat below

,he gangway)• That might be so; but he was disposed to

attribute it to those Conservatives who disliked Tory domi-
nation. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) There was a lull now,
but he warned the house against patched-up combinations.
It had been attempted before and had failed. (Hear, hear.)
The report was then agreed to.
THE REMOVAL OF IRISH PAUPERS.
On the motion for the adjournment of the house until I
Monday,
Mr. HERBERT asked the President of the Poor Law
Board whether any circular had been addressed by the
Board calling the attention of boards of guardians in Eng-
land to the provisions of the Act 24 and 25 Vic. c. 76, relat-
ing to the removal of Irish paupers from England to Ire-
land ; and, if so, uhether he would have any objection to
lay such circular upon the table of the house. ? There was
no doubt that in the removal of Irish paupers from Eng-
land, the provisions of the recent Removal Act were en-
tirely set at nought by the English authorities. The greatest
greatest hardshipswere inflicted on the paupers by removal, and the
d i ab a k tiai oinz.
Mr. Nr,
it
injustice done to the Irish unions at the ports of
RS said that if his right
hon friend had
given him notice of the severaltah cases to which his com-
plaint referred, he should have
en care to inquire exten-
sively into them. All he could say at
the provisions of the law of removal present was, that if
wereo titienot adhered to,
the magistrates, not the poor law anthelswerriehrtestonn- '
Bible for the consequences. However, it h
friend would furnish him with any particular case ;of hard-
,
ship, he would cause inquiry to be made, and then he would
be in a position more completely to meet his right hon.
friend upon the subject.
Col. DU NNE had always been of opinion that the act in
question would lead to the hardships complained of.
' Mr. W. WILLIAMS explained that the grievance com-
plained of originated in the difficulty of getting Irish pau-
pers to make known their proper place of settlement.
After a few observations from Mr. PULLER, the subject
dropped, and the motion for the adjournment was agreed to.
EXPENSE OF RAILWAY LEGISLATION.
Mr. WHALLEY moved for leave to introduce a bill for
diminishing the expense attending the passing of bills re-
lating to railways, and thereby affording facilities for ob-
taining ample and trustworthy information. Substantially,
the measure was similar to one which he had introduced in
that house having for its main object the abolition of the
system of private legislation, which was attended with per-
nicious effects. Among other difficulties in the way of im-
provement in railway communication, the hon. member
stated that in a district with which he was acquainted a
railway company, before they could obtain the power to
make a line 18 miles in length, had to expend £86,000.
I What his bill proposed was, that the parties desiring to
I have a railway, should send a statement of particulars to
the Board of Trade, and that this board should institute an
' inquiry, and give a provisional order to have proper sur-
veys made, and to investigate into the merits of the under-
taking, and that when the board was satisfied that the line
was wanted, they should introduce a bill to have it con-
structed, and that in the event of the house referring the
matter to a select committee, that committee should have
power to come to a definite conclusion on the matter.
Mr. MADFIELD seconded the motion, expressing much
dltbali°l4 ti with the expense of the inquiries now con•

ducted Duero select committees, and suggesting that the
heuse might interfere with advantage in regulating the fees
to counsel. It was high time that the house should put an
end to a mode of procedure which reflected no credit on it,
and which was highly injurious in its effects.
Sir P. O'BRIEN doubted the advantage of a local inquiry
into the necessity for a railway, and protested against the
house being called upon to interfere in the matter of the
amount of remuneration to be given to counsel.
Mr. GIBSON said that if the hon. gentleman could
possibly accomplish a scheme to carry out the objects
proposed by his bill, he would be doing a great public
service, and he should therefore offer no opposition to
the introduction of the bill. At the same time he thought
the House of Commons would be reluctant to relinquish the
control it at present retained over railway undertakings,
and also that there should be some preliminary inquiry into
the details of the proposed measure.
Mr. Sergeant PIGOTT would also advocate any measure
that would lessen the expenses attending the Parliamentary
inquiries upon private bills; but he warned the house
against resorting to any of the suggested local proceedings,
which appeared to take the form of the old-fashioned arbi-
trations, and would be found, as heretofore, the most ex-
pensive and protracted of all inquiries.
After a few words in reply from Mr. WHALLEY,
Leave was given to bring in the bill.
CHURCH RATES.

Sir J. TRELAWNY moved for leave to bring in a bill to
abolish church rates.
Granted.

DRAINAGE OF LAND (IRELAND).

Colonel DICKSON moved for leave to introduce his bill
of last session upon this subject, with some alterations, He
brought it forward thus early in order to provide some em-
ployment for the distressed poor in the districts affected, at
the earliest possible moment.
Sir R. PEEL said that, under the circumstances, the
Government would render the hon. gentleman every assist-
ance in their power.
Leave given.
SALMON FISHERIES (IRELAND).

Mr. M'MAHON moved:the introduction of a bill to
assimilate the laws of England and Ireland regarding sal-
mon fisheries.

Sir R. PEEL said the Government would not oppose the
bill, but he thought there would be some difficulty arising
from the recent discussions upon the contested rights or the
owners of the upper and lower waters.

Leave given.
QUALIFICATION FOR OFFICES BILL.

In committee of the whole house,)
Mr. HADFIEL D obtained leave to bring in a bill render-
ing it unnecessary to subscribe to certain declarations as a
qualification for offices and employment.
Mr. DILL WYN also obtained leave to bring in a bill to
amend the law relating to endowed schools.

The house then resumed,
JUDGMENTS, &c., LAW AMENDMENT.

Mr. HADFIELD obtained leave to bring in a bill to
amend the law relating to future judgments, statutes, and

reeognisances.
The house adjourned at thirty-five minutes past eight.

THE OTTOMAN EMPIRE.

(From the Times' Correspondent.)
CONSTANTINOPLE, Jan. 29.
The panic caused by the late Ministerial crisis is
gradually subsiding. It became evident, as I in-
formed you in my previous letter, so soon as it was
ascertained that Kiamil Pasha had accepted the
Grand Vizirate, that the Sultan was yielding ; and
from that moment Fuad Pasha's return to office,
with his principal colleagues, became a matter of
certainty. The Ministry therefore at this moment
remains as it was at the time of the crisis, with the
exception that Fuad presides over the Grand Coun-
cil, and that Mehemed Rushdi Pasha, the Minister
of War, and Mehemed Ali, the Capitan Pasha, who
were summarily dismissed, remain out of office.
The former has been replaced by Raschid Pasha,
and the latter by Mehemed Pasha, ',Ale, at the time
of his nomination, was superintending the construc-
tion of some iron-clad ships in England. The ex-
clusion of Mehemed Rushdi from the War-office is
unfortunate. He is reputed, and I believe with
reason, to be a man of incorruptible morality—a
rare quality among the governing class in this
country, and is, moreover, intelligent and hard-
working. With regard to Mehemed Ali, a brother-
in-law of the late Sultan, it will be remembered
that he was in high favour at the time of the
accession of Abdul•Aziz, and was looked upon
lately as exercising great influence over him.
His reputation is by no means spotless, and the
malversations of his department were matters of
public notoriety. He is, however, a man of con-
siderable energy, and represents a party of
some importance; so that it is not unlikely
that he also may return to office, but under a
certain amount of control, which, coupled with his
recent disgrace, may induce him to restrain his pro-
pensities for the future.
Immediately on his arrival here, Sir Henry Bul-
wer had a private audience of the Sultan, relating,
no doubt, to the events which had occurred in his
absence. Whatever advice the English Ambassa-
dor may have offered, it does not appear that the
harmony of the interview was in any way disturbed,
for on the following day two handsome Arabian
horses were brougbt to Sir Henry Bulwer by one
of the Chamberlains of the Palace as a gift from the
Sultan ; and this graceful proceeding was not the
only fruit of the Imperial audience. Fuad Pasha's
reinstallation, which immediately followed it, is,
rightly or wrongly, attributed to the counsels which
were tendered on that occasion. It required, it is
said, a little gentle pressure on the part of our Am-
bassador to induce. Fuad, wbo was disposed to
" bonder," to resume office. Having once yielded,
however, it rested with him whether he was to re-
sume his old position as Grand Vizier ; but I be-
lieve he himself declined the honour for the present
wishing to spare the susceptibilities of the Sultan.
There is every probability, however, that when a
reasonable time has elapsed he will supersede
Kiamil Pasha, who, to all intents and purposes,
acts only as his deputy. If Fuad Pasha is wise he
will reap advantage from this crisis by strengthen-
ing his position. It has become evident that it is
difficult to get on without him, and this may give
him the power to consolidate the reforms he has
undertaken and bring forward others which are
very much needed. " Reform" is a household
word with the Turkish Government. It invaria-
bly figures in a very pompous way in all their
political documents, and has succeeded in bring-
ing considerable grist to the Imperial mill, espe-
cially in the form of loans contracted in England,
where people are disposed to take for granted
official statements made in Parliament, and

utterly abstain from judging for themselves and

seeing how seldom the pledge is ever redeemed.
It is but justice, however, to say that whatever re•
forms have been carried out (they are not many, it

is true) were brought forward by Fuad, assisted by
Ali Pasha, who may be looked upon as the only two
men in Turkey who approach in any way to our
notion of statesmen. They are both intelligent and
thoroughly understand European instant ions,which
they would be anxious to emulate if left to them-
selves.

The negotiation for a national bank, of which I
made mention before, and which was put a stop to
by the crisis, was resumed by the Government as
soon as the confusion always resulting from such
sudden changes had somewhat disappeared. You
will remember that I stated that in the document
conveying Fuad Pasha's resignation to the Sultan
much stress was laid on the financial position of the
and
h empire and the absolute necessity of improving it,
in
the establishment of a national bank being consi-
dered as the first basis for this improvement. This
was intended a
hint
ian t sort
was oof legacy
disregarded.a yt o his
successorse d
office,
le-
gates, who were beginning
the negotiation at the poi
t" n tto
at despair
whi which
hoift
hbringingthe matter to a termination, were desired to take up
s
a
interrupted. Several conferences have taken place
on the subject at Mnstapha. Pasha's, the Minister of
assist
Finance, at which FuadEnglishGovernment
assisted.
Mr.
to Foster,
tdhee-
puted by the
Turks in their financial arrangements, and the Mar-
quis do Ploenc, acting in the same capacity on be-
half of the French Government, were also present.
the combination is receiving
It appears that great
support from the
English and French Foreign-
offices. Tho principal element in the project is re-
presented by the Ottoman Bank, which has been
very successful in its operations here, and which
takes the lead in the matter. The French interest
includes some of the great financial celebrities in
Paris, such as Fould, son of the French Minister of
Finance, Fillet Will, Malet, Marquhard, Hottinger,
Perrire, and the Credit 'Mobilier. It would ap-
pear difficult to bring together more powerful
elements than these. The advantage of the Com-
bination is that its representatives being persons