The Sun.
London, England, 1839-05-03 00:00:00

his future course shaped by Mr. Attwood or Mr. Fielden.—
( Loud cheers.) He would say further, without recollect-
ing the specific language he had used at public meetin s,
he should never utter a particle of regret for all the Mem-
bers of the House of Commons—( Renewed cheers)—and
unless every member of the Convention asserted his
independence in that way, they would stand degraded .n
the estimation of those who had sent them, and ;hey
would soon find their places filled by more energetic men.
They ought to pass by the letters altogether, as an insult
to the Convention, and appoint another Committee to
wait on some other Members. if they could not find some
Member who would present it without any conditions, then
it would be their duty to tell the people whom they re-
presented, that they could not find a Member of Parlia-
ment to present their petition unless they first passed a
vote of censure on themselves.—( Hear, hear.) That vote
of censure went :to imply that, as leaders of the people,
they had used language for which they must now go to
the " black stool," and do penance.—(A laugh.) He
would therefore move as amendment, that a fresh Com-
mittee be appointed to wait on other Members who would
support their petition in the House of Commons, without
reference to the past, or conditions as to the future.
Mr. FENNING seconded the amendment.
Mr. F. O'CONNOR said, if Mr. Duncan was right in his
anticipations, be would gladly have seconded his amend-
ment. There was a good deal that transpired at the inter-
view with these Members, which perhaps might alterethe
opinion of Mr. Duncan and the Convention, as regarded
the mere presentation of the petition. The same argu-
ments bad been urged by the Committee when they had
waited upon the Members. It was steed that the adop-
tion of such a resolution would be a vote of censure upon
the Convention, and that they would enter into no com-
promise that would involve its honour. They stated that
they would not restrain Mr. Attwood in the course he was
to pursue. Mr. Attwood had gone into a long and ram-
bling account of his campaiga seventeen or eighteen years
ago, and he had then referred to the language used by
Members of the Convention out of doors, and instanced
two who were not the worst of their Members. Both these
gentlemen said they would have nothing to do with Vincent,
or O'Brien, for these two men had completely outraged
all decency.—( A laugh.) Mr. Frost said that Mr. Att-
wood was in the habit of associating with gamblers. immo-
ral, and improper men, and men of bad character—that
he had the honour of knowing Mr. Vincent, and that he
was a better and more moral man than most of those Mr.
Attwood associated with. It would appear from Mr.
Attwood's statement that their cause had wonderfully re-
trograded since 1830. Mr. Attwood said that the peti-
tion of 1830 signed by 40,000 men went further than the
present one. It went to do that which one of Mr. Att-
wood's resolutions would now denounce. It gave every
man who was taxed a vote—removed all placemen and
pensioners, and interfered with the law of settlement. Mr.
Attwood further stated that it might be sixty
days before an opportunity would be afforded
him of presenting it, according to the Ballot. He
(Mr. O'C.)suggested that Mr. Attwood might move an
amendment on the question, that the Speaker do leave the
chair on going into a Committee of Supply on Monday
night. Mr. Fielden objected to that ; but, however, it
was agreed that the petition should be lodged in their
hands on the 6th, and Mr. Attwood promised to have it
presented, if possible, on Tuesday the 7th of May. Then
the difficulty was, if these resolutions were not passed,
Mr. Attwood would take his own course, and denounce the
means by which the movement had been got up. He
reminded Mr. Attwood of the principle that the House of
Commons was not responsible for the language used
by Mr. O'Connell or any other member out of the House.
He reminded Mr. Attwood also that he had said he wished
to see the country in such a condition of physical strength
as that, at five minutes' notice, he would be able to take
every town, village, and hamlet- in the country. He be-
lieved the Convention would go no further than that—
( Hear, hear.) He ( Mr. O'Connor) was not going to shrink
from the responsibility of any language that had
been uttered. Whatever attached to one attached to
all. If they adopted the course pointed out by Mr.
Attwood, and subscribed to his terms, what situation
would they be in ? They would be under the corn.
plete leading strings of Mr. Attwood and Mr. Fielden.
He repudiated the notion of placing implicit reliance, with-
out a further interview, on these gentlemen. Let the
petition be placed in Mr. Attwood's hands, and let the
Convention rest upon its own character, its own actions, to
form the best answer for anything that might be advanced
against the Convention. He would not be accessory to
withdrawing a word said by ally member of the Conven-
tion. If the Convention was unanimous and united, and
he trusted it would continue as united as it had been, it
might defy all the wily machinations of both its enemies
and sham friends. He should not support Mr. Duncan's
amendment or Mr. Cleave's resolution. He hoped the
entire opinions of the Delegates would he taken, and that
such a resolution would be come to as would embody their
sentiments. As to presenting the petition on the 6th of
May, the Convention must place it in the hands of Mr.
Attwood on that day, and the Convention was so far within
his trammels that the appointment of the day for present-
in; the petition must be left to hint. Mr. Attwood and
317. Fielden did not seem to understand the step that was
to follow, the necking the Charter the law of the land.
The Members of the Convention knew their exact posi-
tion : every Delegate, therefore, ought fearlessly and de-
terminedly to give his opinions to those gentlemen, that
the Convention would not submit to any dictation, would
not enter into any compromise, but that their business was
to see the petition presented. If he had omitted anything
of impertance he trusted that other members of the Com-
mittee would supply the deficiency ; and it would then be
for the Convention to come, if possible, to an unanimous
resolution on the subject.
Mr. FnosT did not wish to say anything against the
character either of Mr. Attwood or Mr. Fielden, believ-
ing that that they were desirous to promote the great
cause. But he had been exceedingly disappointed in Mr.
Attwood and Mr. Fielden. He placed no confidence in
them, and if any one moved that the petition be placed
in other hands he would support it. Mr. Attwood stated
that he , felt it due to himself to guard his own character;
but what had his character to do with the presentation of
tens petition—a petition which prayed for that which he ad-
mitted to be right..—(Hear, hear.) As to the charge
mode against Mr. Vincent, he could not see that any re-
liance was to he placed on the accounts which bad ap-
peared in the papers on which the charge had been
founded.
Mr. SANKEY could not say that he had no confidence in.
those Members, but he must say he thought it rather ab-
surd that they should have raised objectio-ns founded on
language which appeared. in the papers, particularly after
Mr. Attwood hirnsc.lf had been misrepresented.
Mr. ROGERS, as a member of the Committee, felt called
upon to state his view of the matter. His confidence in
the gentlemen who had been named remained just where
it was. He never had confidence in any man, cr
set of men. Ha had the greatest respect for
Mr. Fielder,, and would put confidence in him
if he had been in the habit of putting confidence in any
man; but not being in the habit of putting confidence
in any man he could not do So now. His ( Mr. Ro-
gers's) idea was that the inernh'rs of the Convention
ought to have cot:the—cc in themselves.—( Cheers.) He
went to the gentleman earned, delegated by the Con-
vention, to learn from them what their views are and
what suggestions they had to make—not to increase their
confidence in Cm- e gentlemen, but to ask how the ob-
ject of the Conv..ntien could be best effected. Ile cer-
tainly- heard a great deal of talk, for Mr. Attwood had
not the most condensed way of expressing his opinions,:
and his observations were so diffuse that they were ex-
tremely difficult to be comprehended ; and he therefore
was very glad when Mr. Atticood intimated his inten-
tion of putting his ideas on paper, so that the Convention
might comprehend them better than he had been able to do.
—( Laughter.)
Mr. MILLS said ti: at Mr. Fielden laid great stress on
the word if, asking if those reports were true. Now he
(Mr. Mills) wished to know if those reports were true,
and he must certainly say he would rather have seen
Mr. Vincent here after the unfortunate affair at De-
vizes than that he should have been absent, because certain
reports had gone forih not very cr editehle to the Conven-
tion. The Convention mould now he put to the test of its in-
tentions asto the future. He was one of those who believed
the people of Great Britein were not prepared for the great
movement which some imagined was to take place. He
would discharge his duty here, and if the people wanted
to go a little further, and he agreed to go with them, his
tote might be al' ercd. Although Mr. Fielden might re-
quire certain things to be done, it was fur the Convention
to consider whether it would do those things or not.
Mr. WHITTLE wished to bear testimony to the correct-
ness of the manner in which the last speaker had mentioned
the remarks of Mr. Fielden relative to Mr. Vincent. Mr.
Fielden had not thrown any imputation on Mr. Vincent's
character, but disavowed entertaining tine intentions which
Mr. Vincent was supposed to have adopted. Nearly all
that had occurred, had convinced him that the considera-
tion of the matter ought to be adjourned for a day, in
order that they might be sure of what they were about ;
for the whole of Mr. Duncan's speech had been levelled at
the supposition, that a stipulation had been made as to the
presentation of the petition. It had been stated that no
confidence could be given to Mr. Attwood. That was an
expression of great latitude. He ( Mr. Whittle) had fre-
quently had occasion to find fault welt his judgment—with
his having voted, for instance, confidence in the present
Administration—with his having dined the other day in
honour of Mr. Hume, after Mr. Hume had declared his
intention to support a Bill for a centralized police.—( Hear,
hear.) He thought these circumstances indicated a great
want of firmness of purpose ; but he could not go the
length of saying that he distrusted the intention of Mr.
Attwood to fulfil his promise, when he said if the petition
should be put into his hands he would accept the charge
with good faith, and take the earliest opportunity of present-
ing it to the House. On the contrary, he believed Mr.
Attwood would perform the duty which he had undertaken.
Mr. FROST explained that he did not impute dishonesty
either to Mr. Attwood or Mr. Fielden, but that he had re-
ferred to their judgment.
Mr. WHITTLE was glad that explanation had been eli-
cited by his remarks. He would ask had Mr. Wakley done
anything to give countenance to the movement ? Had he
even said he would vote for the Charter ? Had he not been
going from one side to the other, and had he not also been
present at this very dinner ?—( Hear, hear.) Had he not
been for a long series of years supporting the Ministers
against whom a charge of finality was now made ? Mr.
Attwood had strongly struggled against this Adminis-
trution—he had made very great exertions to get the people
to combine in the manner which he thought best—he had
never deviated from that, and he was now ready to present
the petition ; he was ready to move for a Bill, and
he wanted to know, finding it stated that the Con-
vention had made up their minds to physical force,
whether that was true or false—whether it was avowed
or declared? Circumstances of a very unhappy nature
which might have been precipitated by the indiscreet lan-
guage of members of the Convention out of doors, made
it imperatively necessary to show whether the Conven-
tion would encourage the people to acts of violence, and
share the responsibility of it or flinch from it. Such cir-
cumstances would shortly come before them ; and he
thought, from Mr. Fielden's public character and conduct,
considering the strong opposition which he had given the
New Poor Law Bill, the effective resistance which ho had