The Sun.
London, England, 1830-06-12 00:00:00

as peace should be established, the salaries would be re-
duced. 'As yet; however; redueiiarrhad been- madr!.,
The Horn Member then lead a list of the charges made I,y
British Consul 4 in the f,llowinizy :--Ru•sia,

Sweden, Deninark, Italy, and older to show

the great irregularity which existed. In some the charge
fur every .500 tons was 3/. 12s. ;
-its sabers 12/. 125.,
341., 451., and even 5-1/. This was a-state of things'
which certainly required reconsideration. The eharge for
supporting chapels, too, be thought quite unnecessary.
Formerly the sum was 18,000/. ; this year it was 7,000/.,
and he wished to see it entirely dispensed with. At
Lisbon the English inhabitants assessed themselves for the
expense, and-the same was done at Brazil. Ile therefore
must come to the conclusion that a,great deal of expense
might be saved, and in no way more effectually than by
conferring the office upon Englishmen necessarily resident,
on the spot, who would readily do the duty for the fee.
The United States Consuls; though not paid so much, per-,
formed more than the English. The maintenance of these
appointinents was inconsistent with those professions of
economy which Ministers made, and was inconsistent with
the state of_ the country. • He would .propose'the with-

drawal of the Consuls from the ports where there was no
shipping, and the consignment of the business into the
hands of respectable English merchants:. He was satisfied
that one`-third of the EurOpean Consuls might at this
►noment:be withdrawn. • - •

Mr. ROBINSON was one of those who had thought

it advantageous to• have Consuls with salaries; but, look 7
ing at the abuses which laAl arisen from the system, be

was satisfied that a most Ltd error had beet► committed
by the Bill of 1825, and that the sooner the House re..
turned to a more rational and economical system, the bet-
ter it would discharge its duty. He'did not cOncur,With

the llon. Baronet in the general charge he had made
apinst Government for want of economy. Generally
speaking, they were not liable to. such an imputation,; but
he must say that the Chancellor was bound .to give an
answer to what had been so ably argued by the lion. Ba-
ronet,- more especially to the fact of paying large salaries
and allowances to gentlemen who whatever their talents
might be, bad no duty to perform, whilst whatever duty
there was to-perform was done by individuals on the spot,
also paid by this country. He was one of those who
thought the appointment of a Consul-General altogether
unnecessary. Where we had regular -Ambassadors he"
thought that Consuls ought to be entirelW;• dispensed with.
Vice-Consuls were totally unnecessary where there were
Consuls—though he believed there were Vice-Consuls
who did the duty whilst the Consul did nothing whateve;..
He was not completely favourable to giving the office to
mercantile men, as those men who had not the appoint-
ment were jealous of those who hal, thinking that by it
they obtained advantages. But he would propose a tner•
chant Consul with a fixed and fair table of fees. If such
a mode as that were adopted, the country would be re-
lieved of this enormous charge of no less than 130,0001.
Mr. MABERLY said that there was but one way of
getting out-of the evil ; that was, by referring the matter

to a Committee. With deferenceto the Hon. Baronet,
he did not think that he had proposed a sufficient reduc-
tion. He ought to propose a much larger reduction.
Under all_ the circumstances, he hoped the Hon. Baronet
would press his motion to a division.—(Cries of " Ques-
tion, question.")
Mr. STUART said that the argument of the Hon. Ba-
ronet had failed to convince him of the expediency of his
,motion,. and he would not vote for it. He placed
,more
-reliance on the professions of Ministers than the Iron B-
ronet. He gave the Government credit for effecting per-
manent reductions, and on this ground he should support
his Majesty's Government.—(Hear; hear.)

Mr. HUME said that the Hon. Gentleman who had
Lest spoken had reproached Members for declining to place
confidence in his Majesty's Ministers, when scarcely one
week had elapsed since the Hon. Gentleman had himself
declared that he could not give them that confidence.—
(Heir, hear.) fie Alluded to what the Hon. Member had
stated respecting Ceylon, viz. that five or six years had
passed, and Government. had done nothing which they
had promised to do.—(Hear, hear.) To be consistent,
the Hon. Gentleman ought now to give' his vote against
Ministers, upon the very grounds' which he: had himself
alleged.--(Hear, hear.)

Sir R. PEEL dm not believe the lion. Gentlemin

(Mr. Stuart) was guilty_lof the :slightest incons:stency.
When the Hon. Gentleman said that he placed confidence
in his Majesty's Government, he did' not thereby relininiSh
his right to examine into a particular vote. He thought
that his Majesty's Government had been unjustly arraigned
upon this and on other occasions 'for want of economy.
It was very well for him, who differed from his Majesty's
Government upon a vote as to the Treasurer of the Navy,
to argue that Ministers disregarded public opinion, because
their opinion did not coincide with the Hon. Gentleman's.
-(Wear, bear:).L—But. What - was the fact which he
brought against this general accusation of want of eco-
nomy ? Why, that in the last year a sum of money had
been voted for the public service to the amount of
17,726,0001., and the sum asked this year was
16,584,0001., and this when there hail been no alteration
in circumstances.—(Hear, hear.)—Had .any preceding
Government, of its own accord, made a. reduction in the
estimates of the year to the amount of 1,110,000/. ?._
(Hear, hear.)-1 say, that having made a reduction in the
estimates to that extent in the course of cne year, and
being determined (if continued in power) to persevere in
that.course, this single fact is a conclusive answer to the
charge, that we have been 'a profligate and corrupt Gs-
vernment.(Hear, hear.)
Mr. P. THOMSON thought that the plan of 1825,

properly carried into effectovould have been useful to the
country. Offices were kept up for mere purposes of pa_
tronage and favour. Why did we pay 11.0001. to Am-
bassadors ? Why did we pay the Secretaries to Embas.
sieki; if we were also to have-Consult The business
which was performed by Consuls might be well done by
other persons for 5001. a year. Look at Naples. The
trade of Naples with the whole world did not amount to.
one million sterling a year. Why did we pay a Consul
1,2001. a year ? Why, because it was a fine climate,
and Government could oblige some friend by sending him
there. The English had less occasion for Consuls than
any other nation whatever. He would refer to France
and America, as affording us good examples in tilis
matter. He should vote for the motion,hecause be thought
that the reduction of the salary would bring more able
persons into the service.
Colonel .SIIiTHORPE said that the arguments of, the
Hon.-Member for. Cumberland had convinced him, and.
he should vote with hitn.. -Re hoped that the Hon. Mem-
ber had commenced a fight which would terminate suc-
cessfully.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM said that the Hon. Secretary
had imputed expressions to him which he thought he had
not used. It was said that be had charged Ministers with
being profligate and corrupt. He never intended to retract
any charge deliberately brought forward ; but what he
said was, that professions of economy, when brought to
the test of acts, did not appear sincere. He had said
that all the reductions of which the Hon. Secretary
boasted so much appeared confined to subordinate, power-
less individuals, but that he pertinaciously adhered to all
patronage of offices capable of being held by Gentlemen
sitting in this or the . other House of Parliament. This
was what former Ministers had done, and he did not be-
lieve that 'the Right Hon. Secretary was in thin respect
one. whit more pure than any of his predecessors. • This
conduct bad materially shaken the dispos"titin lie had felt
before the beginning of the Session to give his support to
Ministers. He would have all Consuls left to depend upon
the good will of the merchants.
Sir It. PEEL—By voting against the motion of the
Hon. Baronet, I do not pledge myself to the support of
the present Consular establishments, for I think that the
whole system of our Consular establishments and salaries
-ought to be revised.. We are, however,, placed in a pecu-
liar situation : for if we concede to the opinion of the
House of Commons on one occasion, our so yielding is
used as a taunt against us ut another. This, c rtainly, is
a novel course, at least, if it be not -a just - one. Now,
the present system relative to Consuls was an experiment
of Mr. Canning's in 1825 ;- and the abolition of fees and
the substitution of salaries was tried. This experiment
has 'not succeeded, and it is a subject worthy of se-
rious consideration whether we ought not, partially,
to return to the 'old system of remuneration by
fees... But, let me ask, tun. I to be taunted, because
the House of Commons' threw out a suggestion, to
which I yielded ; or, is there any thing in such con-
duct to justify. the Honourable Baronet, in throw-
ing out such a taunt? The House of Commons is as
much, responsible for the pre'sent Consular system a; the
Government; and they are hardly the tribunal that ought
to inflict censure. There have been, -already, several re-
ductions Lamle, amounting to 5,3001. a year ; and, as va-
cancies occur, a due and proper consideration will be given
to every appointment before any vacancy be filled up ; but
it would not be good policy to tvith`draW, fromremote co-
lonies, the present Constils, and put them on the.auperati-
, nuationlist et home. There, are,- et present, under the
consideration of my Noble Friend 'at the head of the fo-
reign department, the appointments at Mexico, Carthagena,
Lima, Yalparsiso, Buenos Ayres, Conception, Lisbon,
M..drid, -and several others ; and as vacancies occur at
these stations, the necessity of filling them up will be con-
sidered ; and, what is of More importance, also, whether
the emoluments of these offices may not undergo some