The Sun.
London, England, 1837-02-08 00:00:00

ell-eland, and discharged the pt isoners. according to the extent
of the county or the number of the inhabitants.—( A laugh.)
Amongst these some had been convicted of firing at the reve-
nue police; this was a trifling thing in Ireland—( A laugh)—
in these particularly peaceful times, it was a mere trifle.--( A
laugh.) There was amongst these, also, the case of a man
of the name of Jones, who had been convicted of an assault
with intent to commit a rape ; he, too, was discharged with
the rest.---s( Cries of " Oh, oh I") He could assure the House
that these persons were discharged without the formality of
asking the Judges whether they were fit and proper objects
of mercy.—( Hear, hear.) In the county of Donegal ten
were discharged ; but this was done by the order of the Lord-
Lieutenant, as conveyed in a letter from his private Secre-
tary. This letter was addressed to the governor of the
gaol.—( A laugh.)
Lord MOR P E T lI—I believe that this is not the case.
Mr. Sergeant JACK SON could assure the Noble Lord
that if he inquired into it he would find it was the case; he
would find the letter signed " C. Yorke," and dated " 28th
August, 1836," amongst the papers in his office, lie would
ask the Noble Lord was this a proper way to administer the
justice of the country ? Was this the way to ensure the con-
fidence of the country in the administration of the law ? Was
it any thing outrageous for the Protestant and loyal portion of
Ireland to meet and respectfully call the attention of his Ma-
jesty to proceedings which they considered a breach of the
law, and endangering the safety and independence of his Ma-
jesty's subjects ? Such had the Protestants of Ireland done,
and for so doirg they were met by a protest signed by certain
absentee Peers, denouncing their proceedings. Whether this
protest was signed by the parties whose names were attached to
it was perhaps a matter of doubt.—( Hear, hear, and Oh, oh,
f. om the Ministerial side.) The Hon. and Learned Member
opposite was very much mistaken if he supposed that ho
(.tie. Sergeant Jackson) would be deterred by any thing he
could do or say, or any demeanor he might take upon him-
self to assume, either in this House or elsewhere, from ma-
king any statement which he might think proper. He could
tell these Noble Lords that they had better look sharp after
their acres in Ireland.—( Loud cries of " Hear" from the Op-
position.) He would tell the Duke of Devonshire and Earl
Fitzwilliam to take care lest, before two years had gone over
their heads, their estates might be proclaimed.—( Loud cheers
from both sides of the House.) It was part of the language
held by religious men, by priests, by learned men, at the new
Association, that the estates of the Protestants had been
purchased by blood, and the terms in which those Protestants
themselves were libelled there were of the very lowest descrip-
tion. One Noble Lord, than whom no one was more highly
or more justly respected, whom it was impossible to look on
and not know him to be a nobleman, who had been present at
the late meeting, was met in a strain of the loweit drivelry.
He alluded to Lord Abercorn, and this was 'the language
used with regard to him Sacrilege and perjury were the
foundation of his Scottish estates, and his Irish ones, like
almost all the rest, were the consequences of plunder, rob-
bery, and bloodshed."---(Loud cries of hear, hear, from the
Ministerial side, amongst which an Honourable Member used
an expression which we did not distinctly hear.) Perfectly
true, the Honourable Gentleman says. Pray, has the Hon.
Gentleman limed? any estates in y Ireland ?—( Hear)—and
are they, like the rest, the consequence of plunder, robbery,
and bloodshed ?—( Opposition cheers.) But was this the way
a serious subject of this kind should be treated ? He repeated
that the events now passing in Ireland should be a solemn
warning to all the land-owners of Ireland to take heed to their
titles. If things went on as they now did, two years would
not be over their heads before they were called in question.
Look to the history of the last few years. When the ques-
tion of the repeal of the Uuion was first started, the man who
stood up to advocate it would have been called a madman.
When the HOn. and Learned Gentleman the Member for Kil-
kenny started this project for agitation and filling pockets—
(Loud Opposition cheers and laughter)—he did not succeed in
getting a second man in Ireland to support him in it. Now
the case was changed ; look at his goodly host of supporters
in the National Association.—( Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord
told them that the only argument against extending the prin-
ciples of Municipal Reform to Ireland as they had been to
England and Scotland, was that England was inhabited by
Englishmen, Scotland by Scotchmen, tied Ireland by Irish-
men. He should like to know where the Noble Lord had
heard that argument used.—( Hear.) He was aware that a great
stress had been laid upon certain expressions attributed to a
noble individual in another place, and distorted for the pur-
pose, in which something about " aliens" was said. It was
a great pity, certainly, that they should be deprived of this va-
luable stock in trade—(a laugh)—which had boon the subject
of so many brilliant harangues. " Torrents of blood should
flow," said the Hon, and Learned Gentleman, " toatone for '
this insult. He would rather see the rivers of his country
stream with blood than that this stain should not be wiped
out." Now, who was the lion. and Learned Gentleman who
spoke thus, and what had be said about Englishmen ? What
language bad he used towards the liberal and enlightened gen-
try of England ? He had called' them " Sassanachs," which
being interpreted into the vulgar tongue, meant Englishmen,
Saxons, onstraneers. He had called them " foreigners, enes
trees." He would, if it was not trespassing too much upon
their patience, edify the House with a few specimens from a
letter, one of a series, the whole of which were worth attentive
perusal, dated from Derrynane Abbey. It began with a beau-
tiful piece of poetry. (The Hon. and Learned Gentleman
hero hastily read a few lines.) It then went on to say that the
Union had done nothing for Ireland ; and then the lion. and
Learned Gentleman addressed himself solemnly to the Pro-
testants of Ireland.
Mr. O'CONNELL inquired the date of the letter.
Mr. Sergeant JACKSON—The date was, " Derrynane
Abbey, September, 27, 1830."—(Ministerial cheers.) The
lion. and Learned Gentleman in passages of his letter pro-
ceeded to address the Irish youths in such a strain as the fol-
lowing :—" Survivors of. the unionists, base men who sold
themselves and their country to the dominion of foreigners."
Now, what did this amount to—what did all these repeated ex-
pressions mean, so distinct from the very term " alien," attri-
buted in a mistaken sense to a Noble Lord in another place,
who, upon being made acquainted with the misconception to
which it had given rise, hastened to apologise for it, and to
assure the people of Ireland that he did not intend it in the
sense attributed to him. In. the face of this apology, re-
gardless of explanation, still clinging to the distorted and erro-
neous view in which the expression had at first been received, a
motion was framed at the National Association by diction. and
Learned Gentleman opposite to denounce the Noble Lord in
question. —( Mr. O'Connell—" No, no, Mr. Boyce, of Bannon. ")
Oh it was not moved by the lion. and Learned Gentleman
himself; he was glad to get a scapegoat, was be ? and that a
Protestant member of the Association. The Hon. and Learned
Gentleman, however, prompted him doubtless in what he was
to do—( Hear, hear, from Mr. O'Connell)—but he did a little
more also ; he moved the setting aside of a standing order,
for the purpose of bringing it forward at a time when it would
not otherwise have been done.—( Hear, hear.) This motion
denounced the Noble Lord he referred to as " an enemy to
the peace of Ireland, to the stability of the empire, and to the
throne of England." Language more atrocious than this, he
maintained, had never been heard in that House.—(Opposi-
tion cheers.) It was a disgrace to Irishmen to have taken
part in such a proceeding. Rivers of blood were to flow for
the insult alleged to have been cast on Irishmen, and yet an
atrocity like this was applauded by all the Irishmen who heard
it.--( Hear, hear.) After again denouncing the conduct of
the Hon. and Learned Member for Kilkenny, and the pro-
ceedings of the National Association of Dublin, the lion. and
Learned Sergeant sat down amidst loud and protracted cheer-
ing; from the Opposition benches.
Mr. O'CONNELL, after the cheering bad subsided, said,
Sir, I concur in the pleasure these cheers manifest to be en-
tertained by the Hon. Gentlemen, at the other side, at the speech
we have just heard from the Hon. and Learned Sergeant. I
must say I never heard any speech with 'mere complete de-
light.—( Hear, hear.) , As to the personal attack on myself,
that is perfectly benclath,my.dignity to notice.—( Oh, oh 1) It
certainly does not, ellpy the, satisfaction with which I listened
to the rest of the discourse,, thtt*e.not arrived at my present
time of life without, learning to value the abuse of some whose
praise would he censure indeed. All I ask the Hon. and
Learned Sergeant is.never to 'praise me ; let him do with me
what else he pleases.--(A laugh.)_ The satisfactian which I
derive, from the speech OS the ilen, and, Learned Sergeant is
founded upon tw9 grounds ;, firstly , that if he has any ma-
terial of political candour -about him, he has' taken up a
course from which he cannot with any dignity retire; and se-
condly, that he has,,ayowedly displayed himself as the organ
far the opposition of his Majesty's Ministers.--( Hear, hear.)
There is no, disguise . now, they have made him their chant-
!pion ; they have bound their cause:.vvith his, and it is im-
possible that :the Right lion. Baronet, hirnielf can be more
explicit ..upou course theyepropeee to adopt than he has
been. The coalition sitting on that bench is now undis-
gaised in its features, which announce that there is to be no
peace for Ireland but in the extermination of its people.—( Oh,
oh, and hear, hear.) What will Irishmen have to expect
when he is one of the law officers of the Crown, for he de-
serves it quite as well as the lion. and Learned Gentleman
sitting at his side, in some points ; as in assursnce and coolness
of assertion he even exceeds him, and in his low jests he beats
him hollow.—(Oh, oh, and laughter,) It was a great joke
with him that I set him right in a matter of fact ; he asserting
that I moved the resolution at the Association reflecting upon
the conduct of Lord Lyndhurst ; whilst I, without meaning
any offence to the party, told hint who really did do it; I sup-
porting the motion to be sure, which .1 do etot pretend to deny.
But the Hon. and Learned Sergeant, who talks so bitterly
about assailing persons by name, has himself done so in many
instances its the course of his speech to-night.—( Hear, bear.)
He speaks with contempt of 'Mr. Tighe; one of the most rising
Gentlemen at the Irish bar, and this " person " forsooth is at-
tacked by the Learned Sergeant, who doubtless considered,'
himself one of the aristocracy of the bar. The Learned Ser-
geant then went on to attack Mr. Pigott, one of the best and
most rising men of the day, either in Ireland or any where
else, whose legal knowledge is of the very highest order, and
the ingredients of whose mirth arc so mixed up with the milk
of h uman kindness that no one could take offence at it, unless
indeed he were !possessed of that species of heart close to the
leather lungs of the Hon. Sergeant.—( Laughter, and cries of
" Chair, chair.") -
The SPEAKER was understood to say, that although the
[lon. Member doubtless felt that he had received somo pro-
vocation for what he was saying, he thought he would do well
to express himself in more moderate words.--( Hear.)
Mr. O'CONNELL-3 have been assailed ha the coarsest
language.—(" No, no," and " Hear, hear.") However, I will
not retaliate as far as relates to myself, but I certainly think I
am entitled to speak about the contemptuous attack made on
Mr. Pigott. Mr. Cassidy has also been alluded to by the
Learned Sergeant, who makes a great point about his having
been refused to be certified as kproper person for a magistrate
by a certain Noble Lord. Now, j want to know whether Mr.
Cassidy ever was a candidate against a son of the Noble Lord
in questionsputting hint to the expense of a contested election?
If so, that is quite sufficient to account for the refusal of his eel..

tifiCate.---(Hear, hear, and oh, oh.) Why did not the Learned
Sergeant make these charges in Dublin? There was a good
reason for it. He durst not make them there, because they
would have been contradicted as amply and distinctly as they
merited. He had not made them in Dublin, but in that House,
.knOwing that the persons who could contradict them were else-
where. These, however, were specimens of the manner in which
the Learned Sergeant would administer law to others. Now lei
me ask, if the Learned Sergeant was not satisfied with the pro-
scriptions already made in Ireland, that he must now come
forward and proscribe ninety persons in the new Association ?
He calls it a Catholic and seditious Association. I have no
words, no sufficiently strong terms, to reject such an imputa-
tion ; and can only reply that the charge made by the Learned
Sergeant is unfounded. —( Hear ) When the Irish Corpora-
tion Reform Bill was thrown out, it was stated that one ground
for this step was an assertion of mine that the new Corpora-
tions would form normal schools for peaceful agitation. That
was my statement, and it had been commented on in every pos-
sible manner, and urged again and again as a ground for re-
jecting the Bill. And what did I then predict ? I predicted
that agitation-would increase, and I have redeemed my pledge
to the letter—(Cheers and laughter)—and I am deter-
mined to persevere in the same course, because I know that
the Association is constitutional, and because it has already
been successful. The Learned Sergeant said the Association
was a Catholic Association, and
.proceeded to demonstrate
this in the strangest way. In what way ? By exultingly
proclaiming that the president's chair belonged to the Catho-
lic Association, and that it was proved by the brass plate on
the back of it. I admit the fact : I admit that the
chair belonged to the !Catholic Association ; and yet this
is the way in which the Learned Sergeant occupies the time
of a grave senate for two hours and a 'half, by exerting all
his ingenuity to prove that the Association is Catholic, be-
cause the chair belonged to the Catholic Association. Why
the Association is not a Catholic Association, unless Catholic
is understood in the true sense of the word, and means a uni-
versal Association—and it is universal, it is composed of men
from the north to the south, from east to west, men combined
from a sense of wrong, and imbued with the . deepest feelings
of indignation for the injustice inflicted on them, and taunted
at the same time for entertaining such feelings by those men
who have lost their power, and who thus show what their con-
duct would be if they again recovered their dominion. Did
not the Learned Gentleman calumniate the Catholic clergy?
Did we not hear him talk about reforming the corporation of
the Catholic Church ? What has he to do with that hier-
archy ?—Why is he put forward to calumniate them ?
—lf you support him I accuse you as accompliCes.
Why, in the most outrageous periods of the agita-
tion for Catholic Emancipation, in the angriest times and
most violent contests between the parties, Orangemen spared
them. Dr. Doyle, to be sure, was pointed out; the remain-
der were spared as men unimpeachable in their moral con-
duet.—(A laugh.) I hear another laugh from one of the
party. lam glad of it. It proves that now there is no con-
cealment ; the laugh is echoed, and it is a symptom of what
they would do if they had to reform the Catholic Church.
They have tried that already. Their ancestors had recourse
to the gibbet and scaffold, and the axe, by imprisonment
and tortures, but thegfailed in doing it. Why, therefore, is
the Learned Sergeant put forward as the principal agent in
pouring out violent abuse on their sacred and anointed heads?
The Irish people will hear this, and they will also hear of the
the cheers which followed hese announcements from the
Other side._( Hear, hear.)—They will learn what abuse has
been heaped on the Irish Clergy, and know how to estimate
the intentions and policy of the party. There is now no dis-
guise. The Learned Sergeant has even gone so far as to
charge the Catholic hierarchy with a wish to be connected
With the State, and have the Church property transferred to
them. The Catholic Bishops have decided the point. Twenty-
four of them met, and they declared by public advertisement
that they would consent to no species of connection with the
State. But the Learned Sergeant must not • attempt to get
off by talking of a Committee. The party (said the Hon.
and Learned Member) have made a charge against Lord Mul-
grave, a charge which had never been brought against Orange-
men, namely, that of excessive clemency. Yes will it be
believed, that it is imputed to the Lord-Lieutenant as a crime,
that he has opened the prison doors? That is a proof of the
way in which Lord Mulgrave is now assailed. Did the party
—he would not call them Protestants, for many Protestants
were his dear friends, but call them by their old name—did
they ever interfere with Orangemen, and set at 'liberty the
wretches in gaol ? But did the Learned Gentleman
impute any motive to Lord Mulgrave? Why, he believed
if inquiry were meld° it would be found that the greater
number set at liberty were Protestants and Orangemen.—
( Hear, hear.) But the Learned Sergeant had assailed a
lady, and imputed to her ashore of the blame. Now, had the
Learned Gentleman attacked him—bad he coupled his name
with thet'of Lord Mulgrave, be should not have complained ;
on the contrary, he should be proud to be associated with one
whom he called the saviour of his country. 110 was the first
Lord-Lieutenant who hid introduced impartial justice into
Ireland, and on that account lie called him the saviour of his
country. Something of the same kind had been said by the
Learned Gentleman last eight, and on that occasion he had
taken the opportunity to make some facetious remarks. This
case might be different from that ; but if it were the same,
it only proved the bad taste of the Learned Gentleman in in-
troducing the name of a lady on the same charge. The
'Learned Gentleman proposes a Committee of Inquiry, but he
knows it would be just as competent to propose a Committee
of Inquiry for a common assault. If the charge were true, then
Lord Mulgrave was guilty. The Learned Gentlemen said he
could prove three charges. If so, why not put himself in a train
to prove them, and try the proof, but he durst not try. The
Learned Sergeant knew this too well; he had mentioned charges
Only in round sentences, but he did not dare to bring them for-
ward. He talked of the National Association being consti-
tuted for a variety of purposes. He would therefore tell him,
as he seemed not to know, what were the purposes of the As-
sociation. It had two objects ; to obtain a proper tithe Bill,
and municipal reform like that granted to England and Scot-
land. These were the two points ; for these it was instituted,
and it was expretsly declared that when these were obtained
the Association was to be immediately dissolved. It was said
that its object also was to reform the House of Lords and
obtain universal suffrage. Now though he believed these ne-
cessary for the salvation of the country, the Association had
nothing to do with them. The party talked of improving
Ireland, and obtaining their lost rights; but those who really
aimed at these just and legitimate objects might judge what
they meant by improvement and rights from their late con-
duct. A charge had been brought against the Associaticn
with regard to writs of rebellion issued by the Court of Ex-
chequer. Now of whom was there the greatest reason to com-
plain? The lay Association.had filed many bills, and when an-
swers were put in it was found that there was nothing to recover.
The National 'Association had nothing to do with that. But
something had been said about Mr. Tighe, and a charge had
been made against the Association because a man of the name
of Corboy, imprisoned in consequence of a rebellion writ, was
actually fat, and comfortable, and well—and assisted by coun--
sel and kept by the Association. Was that thought a crime ?
Did they never hear of James Dwyer, who was dying in gaol,
who was mortally ill, and who the physician Or the Association
'said would certainly die, unless he were set at liberty?' Under
such circumstances, application was made to the plaintiff's
counsel, and the prisoner was set at liberty. Oh, the Learned
Gentleman was sorry that Corboy had fared so well, but
he should have followed up that case with the case of John
Riley.. Let them only think of a man seized under a
commission of rebellion, and so afflicted with disease that
he was discharged by the horror of the Court, after having
been confined, for 10s. 6d., or 3s. 6d. a year. But what
did the charge amount to ?—That we were guilty of
feeding and clothing a man who perished in goal, and was
carried to his lodging a corpie. These were the men who
charged the Association with feeding Corboy in prison. But
the Learned Sergeant had b.ought a charge against Mr.
O'Loghlen, who was no longer there to defend himself, but
was now in a situation to which his talents and his virtue had
deservedly raised him. A charge had been made against Mr.
O'Loghlee, and the Learned Sergeant said he could prove it.
He could not prove it. The case referred to was the trial of
a person for assisting a prisoner to escape ; but who was the
Attorney-General then? Not O'Loghlen, but Blackburne—
( Hear)—whom the Learned Gentleman had eulogised so
much. What would Englishmen think of a man, being put
on his trial a second and a third time; and this eras the
second time that the Learned' Sergeant asserted that he bad
been proved by evidence to be guilty. The individual was
still out on 'bail. Had Englishmen ever heard of any thing
like this in England ?—( Hear.) That was the way in which
justice was administered in Ireland. PL man•was pronounced
to be clearly guilty, though he had been acquitted by three
Juries. Good God ! what would. become of the administration
of justice if such persons were to get power into their
hands? These were to be the Judges in Ireland in case of
the change of Alminisrration--men who declared a prie
sener guilty though acquitted three times. The very judge
said, if such a prisoner escaped, neither lice or prh;perty
would bgsafe. Why, such a judge deserved to be igepeaelogie
The Learned Gentleman denied that, the aspcca erityns.
of
religion or politics had been mixet). an such
He protested against such an ssee. os io
.a
Learned Gentleman to come fur don, rand he called or. the
the question could be 'to brought esa.rd with a motion on which
issue, and he would second
it. He could prove what hr_ :had seen himself in the country
fifty times. He had hea:.d Olt : Crown Solicitor ;apologising
for the course which •
tfe puri. .ied, and stating, -on being re-
monstrated with, inat the
his hands. He would OMR, himself
pr. Jsecution bad been taken out of
to prove that such a
ease occurred in Limerick, when, as we understood, ' Mr.
w Baddington, we, selleitor
fit the Crown. But another
charge was, that the ehal• lenge by the Crown had been
taken away by,
•O'L ghlen former tira6s ride
Crown was allowed to ch
.lien g
,er to any e .
etent, an, ien
the number r jurors
the Sheri!; to gas exhae,,
sted theenl aege the g':aver sages
of the day allowedpanel.
It had been stated t' Sat gme, o'lg,glien had sent
down an order to the assize, coo.
'ts to the effect that no person
saw be set aside by the Croy, MO'Loghlen gave no
such directions. The dire et-4r
she eave were, that no man
should be set aside on aceuunt of hie religion. That system
had been adopted is Qp@eri a t County and Carlow. In fact he
wiehocl to introduce the E.,.• sesteee ; while the Learned
Serg,eant regretted that the practice of packing juries was
falling into disuse, and disc ai
zt.v showed what would be done
in Ireland when. he and 'ells party came into power. If such
were not the case, he `;could , be reedy to apologize ; but the
Learned Gentleman was hW forward, though he was ready
enough of his own, accorod e and if his party did not disavow
such scntimehist these, eer!el aicn'ts must be regarded as their
own. lie (Mi'. O'rs-ionnel , was not there to ask mercy and
compassion for o,!e people of Ireland. If he wore, he knew
he should ask • ; r-
te vain. Sets was there as one of the reprceen—
tatives of the Irish peopl eto demand justice for them. The
Honourable •
and Learn ed Sergeant sight sneer—it was a
ecrumotlity he did not d eal in.—( A laugh.) How could any
4s-nbi•Y Qf }Ational F Rmus twit the Catholics of Ircluid