The Sun.
London, England, 1830-11-16 00:00:00

REFORM.

Sir R. FERGUSON presented a petition from Cupar
in favour of Reform in Parliament, and especially in fa.
your of Reform in the Representation, or rather non-re-
presentation of the Scotch boroughs. Ile declared that he
had been both asteui4ted and hurt et bearing that the
Noble Duke had said, in *wilier plecC, that the country
was satiafied with the present system, and that he W 44
not prepared to wee to any Proposition fur Ralhrm. If
the Noble Duke really had cattle .any, such declaration,
and supposed, bleti!, that the people were sati,fivd
the present system, be (Sir R. Ferguson) ;mod say thst
the Noble Duke was quite ignorant of the feelings of the
people. By such a deoletation the people would not be
stopped, but would }arm forward with double zeal in the
cause of Reform; for he felt bound to say that, in his be-
lief, there was but one opinion as to the oeveistity of Re-
form front one rod of the kingdom to the other.
Mr. KENNEDY said, that as this was the first peti.
tion that had been presumed from Scotland on the Rohr
ject, he must take the opportunity of obeerving, that he
entreated the Ilouse to pay the utmost atteution to the
wishes, of the people of Scotlend on the question of
-Reform. This opinion wet firsoly settled on that question.
Mr. R. FERGUSON prevented a petition, front Durle.
ton against slavery.
Mo. HUME promoted six petitions, front Perth, Ar-
broath, Brechin, and Stockport, for Reform and Retitle-
titan of Taxation. The Hon. Member observed that three
petitions were most respectably signed, but he believed
that some of the photos from which they. were *lot would
send no more, unites Ministers exhiltited a dispositiou to
4441 relief to the petitioners. He declared (list the
universal wish of the people of Se,,tlauti was feint the bailot.
Mr. DIINDAS denied that any such feadiog existed is
Scotland in favour of the ballot. He dett;0111, t4iia that
they wished the reform of which the Om. Member hid
t liked ; he absolutely denied ‘14,1 they wanted reform in
the representation...4A 14000...41i least that was not the
genert.4l (414 ip Svoibinfi.

Mr,llslsEDY should he perfectly contented 14 that
question was to be decided by the exprostim t$ opinion
that the I,etitions to that House wankd dis46o.
Sir C. FORBES was mularAtoo44 to soy that Brachio,
which bad returned biota. Atember (Mr, flume) to
the four last rariiamenta, was the most corrupt of Scotch
Ur. HUME answered that the majority of Oa
three, and that having Montrose and Artarnath with hint,
he only wanted Breehitt to complete that mtjotity. in
that way Brechin had cetwasal him to Perliatueot. lie
denied, howeve.i, that It had ever done an corruptly, atori
salt thai it the lion. Baronet had umirritutal ‘l4l.rtde 61
simple arithmetic he had mentioned...4A laugh)—the
lion. Hamlet would not have wets the attack rir the
burgh of Hrechin. Tile Hon. Mernher for E4linhurgh
had deniedliK; the people in Edinburgh wanted eilovc4in
i;e44lllf4i, He would air the lion. Aleinkle.";. ;, he had
courage to risk the deciaion of that 4,,,e5t10n by aIL,Hot
of the people of Scotland ?....ef,iitaar, hear.) if the people.
of Edinburgh votect %y ballot, the lion, Member. who
now sat in *,hat House Mr ;heat city would be tart i,st man
who would represent the people of that oity...„(Uear,
he.ar, and a lough.) The. lima, &leather spoke the opinions
of the thirty Of (WAX men by whom he was returned, but,
not of the 1401,0001nlorbitorts whom he pretended to re.
iirrimit, but who bad no vote in his sletitit.M. It cuts
shameful hint on the character of that Honor. that among
curl, a population there should ho hut so few voter t.
Mr. DUND.kkattid the Hon. Member fur Middiesca
was miutaten, when he Said that there wars only forty
etrotors fur Edinburgh, but he hum nothing of the Con-
stitution of Edinburgh, and .therefor. 4 lw wadi bold mew.
trim's. It was ignorance thAt, made him bolil laugh.)
—Among his (Mr, Hondas'„) ntectote, were fourteen per-
sons who ware chosen by the people, at elders or (ra-
con., and Vila Wkltt 4 Intithe election as far as it went.
(f.sintliter-)

Sir J. tiltAllAllt observed, that although ht niiBhi be
aril of the ectiture of the Hun, Nirtuter oppo.

. .
site, for his ignorinsi exhibited lo what he WWI kliOtlt to
'ay, he could not avoid feeling a wish to *tate ono fact on
thin subject. The lest time teat the people of Scotland
had the opportunity of protiontwiN their opinion on the
position of Reform W4O in the year 1t326, whets tic pre-
4ent Chief II trou of Sentient! brought that question under
the consideration of the house. The people of Spoletod
then showed that there were itt Edinburgh 1,0 000 ,persons
rated to the.entillal amount of M., and that, alterdellue.t.
ing the timber of women and other persons unqualified
to vote, there remained 7,246 househo'ders who segued a
petition to that l'lonse, praying that Pit.liatnent would
eter the mote of election for Sentlentl—(llettr, bear.)—
fhe 110 n. Mc...miter for Foliuhttrgh would find the greatest
liflieulty in producing petitions from Scotland, with or
without, the ballo, that shituld cxpr ss the opittiou of the
,tettple, sensing with the sentiment declare(l hy,the Duke
If W.-Wrote), that his itnaginetiou cou'd not Conceive a
systetn so perfect as that whi4f.WaS f-:,4t4h1i0411 in the
United Kingdom. He was sure that the Hon. Member
for },:dinbureli would, not find five hundred people ill s'eut
land who would go even thet length with hint,-,-(Hear,
neer)--or who would pretend in any way to entdicate
the present mode of returning Members. With regard to
the inyetitication and craft of returning' .4f toilets, 6,1
had been already well exposed by other., awl he'll of only
to say, that, in his opluito, however ,bigh the tone or
tughty the determination expressed on t!tie subject, the
Government would find they couhl not coot:owe this cor-
rupt %Hem against the moderate but ii ii Niel nide, Nal
lentrools fo Reform that Refor that were .uttered by the 1c of
this empire.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. KENNEDY said that the Corporation by which
the Hon. Member fur Edinburgh watt returned, coneistid
of thitty-three patrons, and the tleetion of fourteen of
them, it was true, did pstticipste iosonte degree of a
popular election—hot niorterrt out of the thirty three were
self-elected, an that the whole,fattriefue,fittpulaii election'
which the intaginatfon of the Hon. 4letither far Elio,
burgh Itad erected, at twee fell to the Ornmd.
Mr. DUNDAS offitsnottl that it tamed where it did.
Fourteen of them persons Were popularly elected, and they
eumluced to the election of the lathers.
Air. amid that the (..:.'eton4.,,inihteueeti,the elec-
tion of the whele thirtylbree, cud that the people of
Edinburgh had no more to trier!; the slecttion of the
Hon. Members than had 'the people of Apo.
Mr. DUNDAS said that the fourteen had a share in
the election ,-.(A laugh,)
The petitions were mil soil laid on the table.
A Message yeas received from the Lords requesting
Copies of the Reports. of the Contemns' Committeee on
the sultject* of Tobacco, the state of the Poor in Ireland,
and of the tail Trade. —Wet ed.
FORFAR, &c., ELEC,I'ION.
Mr, S. WOItTLEY, after *wise remark* up,,n the
peculiar circumstances of his case, 44 sitting. Member for
the district of boroughs, Forftr, Perth, tit. Andrew's,
Cutter, and Dundee, moved that the consideration of the
Election Petition against hint should be postponed front
the 211 Decemlotr to some future day.
Sir C, FORBES opposed the motion, so diluting that
the matter in dispute lay
,in a Ofitsliell, and that the Hon.
:timber would not be able to maintain hie salt for fire
minutes after the mettiug of the Committee to try the
question.
Sir AL W. RIDLEY wai iu faronr of delay, and re-
cotnutentled farther, that ad the election petitions, hitt
those where double returns hail been made, should be post-
paned until after the holidays, which it was titolerstuo
were to last for a mouth or six week'.
Mr. EItItGIIiiSON rootentletl that the HonouraWe
Gentleman (Mrs S. Wortley) had Lid no special circum-
stance* before the. House to warrant a ilep Irony front the
general redo its applied to OpFtiou peOtirqn,
Mr. W. WYNN, would, have consented tit: A Motion tic
defer the consideration of the petitimi'in istikostioll fur a few
.yto r he argued that it wee one of the earliest duties of
the Hone° to use ertain !eho ought, or ought not to sit as
its Metnhers, and that it wank operate ntitst unjustly to
the parties if election petitions generally went postponed.
until after the holiday's.
After a few worth front Mr. C. PIit.HANI and Mr- 8-
‘Votret.tre, the Gallery, WA* cleared for a division, but we
believe that none took-Once, and %Lit S. win
tley
withdrew his motion,

INCENDIARIES.
Mr.. H. SITAINIT (tes tiorto as the CiaNei was re-
opened) cola to put a (11101,tion. to the Hight fatin,,,asble
Secretary for the Hume Department, relative to the bacon.
diary proceedings in several of the Home Counties. They
had istottnencril in Kent, tool lout loom alarmingly ex-
tended id last (sit the understood die Hot,. Gentleman) to
the county to whtch he lasluoged (Stirrer), 'Ube Mit
gitoreatre believed, that at present Hooey had 'not soilicient
Pon e r :to StY#o4,l fn epeeist tweet-at/ea they
could cua)y swear them in When tumults told oteurred, and
thou only locally. Tile lion. Member theesfore suggestyd
that a k•hort Hill for a short berm tuiglot he advantageously
brought in to constitute a constabulary force to pet form
the duty of watch sod ward, by which a great dritl of
mischief might be toevented. Ile wished to kuow, theft*.
fore, whether the flight llott. Gentleinat: lad taken into
his consideration spy measure Of that nature, or any other
that Might bq efrectuel for the end itt view?
Siellolll3,ltT ITEL—I can *setae tbe Hon. Aletubee
that four or fire hours net' every flay of my life are spent in
endeavouring to diseurcr the perpetrature of these atrocious
crimes. I know that voluntary ateociationa have been
formed to establish watch and ward in many 'threatened
situations; and I helieve that Nothing but extraordinary
local vigilance will provide effectual sictirity against 'titer
,ibominable offenders. No military facie, no yeomanry
force. can, I am afraid, defeat tbs wicked designs of moos
who have tonne ulterior tt:iject ire view heyoud the mere
redresa.of a boost evil that 'firmly believe. If any melt-
sure eon be, suggested, by farming loyal amaciatiOns, or
otherwise, for which the assistance of Parliament or of
Government may be necemany, 1 he most litypy to
give it every possible cosaideratiou. I am perfectly car.,
gain that there is no plan, promising to be efketual,
this Rouge would not cheerfully sanction its older to tee..
'aloes) a system to disgraceful. The hotfoot will not
require me to disclose the measures I ant adopting to detect
the perpetrators__to at) so WOOl4 t efr<tt the object itself.—
(Hear, hear.)—Nu expense, no exertion on hi, part, has
beets spared to bring these inigititons petsetta to justice.-.-.
If any dittletklty slntult grille in forming voluntary assoeia •
thole, or in swearing in special ounatables, the House will,
in I have said, be ready to sanction any toads of temoving
that difficulty, and j may add, for myeelf, that I will give
any
rproposition 44 most willing attention.
Mr. 11,8IITMAN oleterved that as the law stood at pre.
sent, isottoial cnostuhles might he sworn in by Magistrates.
fiir nollEitT PEEL, referred to the Statute of the fast
Geo. IV., which enabled Magistratei to appoint special
constables 41114101' certain circumitimees. He slid not know
that it applied to cases where those was us mere appro..
I motion of tumult.

lir. DENISON—Att I /wee the honour to sit hero for
iety 41,' thin s
Surrey, I may, perluslot with paw t oi pot-
toothy of soyiog that I dtrply ltanetit, in einuntuit with toy
Ftiout (if he wild allow tiie to call hint so), the
eytlsta which during the theta rata nights hare tiii.graced
tint County. Whethey the plait 'suggriiteil he the best I
ttannot *low ileri4l but that' mane phut ought to be
stlopted to vti dorett thtsiti ationiinatile outrages, as this
Right klorti Secretary justly`ralbt them', prompt)). and de_
eisively, is quite Eitlir. At to the spirit of the roomy.
over which I have rereutly travelletl, I most deny its ions,
that there it anything approaching dialoyalty among any
clam of the inhabitants ; they ere attached' to the Monarchy
and Li the ,noun.},; WI that they' are aatititett with the
King's Alittistert I will by nu mount take upon me to
affirun.,--(11w, lent.) —The dittottlatitstion hat hero in-
creAtesi Is 7 the speenh reestutiy pot into hie Majesty's
tuouth,and itill more by the extritordinary utul uneallrtt i()C
ijetihratiUll of the Dtilto of Wellington itt the other lino*.

_ .
,
Tibt.ntoilpeilltoripl4o44l:llnnititttito itelftrywoei.:;)
Blau di4a isAeil with the I,:ep"fitiot, re urtliuq tbe
List. Let the Itig))* lluiik. tionticloAn ree,ahtet that to
put An Old to this opirit, Minieictie Hoot both vetronelt anti
refoun...they molt trl,e.%t teoxi a, and consent to that
akaago in the rtproieutet:i4o which ii retinited by the col'.
i.,,etinitt, that have etept into it. Aline oil, let illinisters
repeal thy itivsni upon productive litilitetry, and hit line/-
lords Wiwi: their rents 1 and istiners will then be able
tri give snob wages to thrir labourers as will rumble them
to support their families. At all event., ti very body Will
WM that the prevailiog outrages must Are terminated
speedily Ana effectually.
Uv. jillAlE—Arrougemente tor establishing asaisciie.
thane flit stif•ilefeuce have, 1, kisOW, Wen made in severni
l3ittt, of the county of Micktiex ; 111441 in tbeivarisit tai St.
Aime, LimeLmoto. 40 a meeting convened by edverthos
meat, the foll.4w.ianj resolution was very recently adopted' ;_,•,
ti t\ declare to the titet place, in the most 1101,11101
iii4itner, our firm and ilev nted loyalty to our Most exert
scut King,
,and our attachment to the.,pcinciples of the
Conetitutiottp owl to the ititcreti end po hits,! inetitutione of
our coootry%

4' .assonosing, in our propel ty, sand In our faassailliot, ass
CONUiVOO4I stoke in that pratiosa,4-;ou of io-Bari outer, w*
&close our rcatltnaNsa at loiy 41.4 tvery 114-km-.1, CJ tAtVi
Our Otitiotit *Matta. for the sayiat..*,i,,a oaf tooth atatalay—
it.nd for the protraatitan per,antroa WO lit Ittio*
V

hut We 4*,

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