The Sun.
London, England, 1863-04-28 00:00:00

TIIE BUDGET-CLUB LICENCES.

Sir P. O'BRIEN supported the resolution.
Mr. LONGFIELD spoke in favour of the amendment
The committee divided. The numbers were—
For the resolution
Against it
Majority
The resolution was carried.
PUBLICANS' BEER LICENCE.

The CHANCELLOR of ,the EXCHEQUER proposed
the following resolution :—" That, towards raising the
supply granted to her Majesty, there shall be charged and
paid for and upon every excise licence to be taken out by
any person who shall be duly authorised by justices of the
peace to keep a common inn, alehouse, or victualling house,
and;who shall sell beer, cider, or perry by retail, to be drunk
or consumed in his, her, or their house or premises, and
who shall take out a licence to retail spirits, the duty of £3
35., and 6 per cent. thereon, in lieu of the duty now payable
on such licence to retail beer." The object of the resolution
was to bring a class of persons under the duty who ought
to pay, and equalise the two classes of beersellers.
After some remarks from Mr. D. GRIFFITH against the
imposition of the 5 per cent., which the CHANCELLOR of
the EXCHEQUER defended as a convenient proceeding to
raise revenue, and an explanation from him that the reso-
lution was not for the imposition of a new duty, but the
application of an old one, in which case it was always re-
tained,

The resolution was agreed to.
The following resolutions were also agreed to :
BEER DEALER'S ADDITIONAL LICENCE.
" That where any person shall be duly licensed to sell
strong beer in casks containing not less than four and a

half gallons, or in not less than two dozen reputed quart
bottles at one time, there shall be charged and paid for

every additional excise licence which may be taken out to

authoriso such person to sell beer in any less quantity

and in any other manner than as aforesaid, but not to be

drunk or consumed on the premises where sold, the duty of
of £1 ls., and 5 per cent. thereon."

SUGAR—EXC;ISE DUTY.
"That the duties of Excise on sugar made in the United
Kingdom, specified in schedule B of the act passed in the

20th and 21st years of her Majesty's reign, chap, 21, shal.
be continued, and be levied and charged until August 4,
1864,"

STAGE CARRIAGE LICENCES.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXUHEQUER said he
should make his alterations in those licences in comic ittee
on the Revenue Bill, and not by resolution. He, however,
proposed the following resolution for licensing carriages for
occasional purposes :—" For a licence for any carriage drawn
by one horse, for one day, 35.; for any carriage drawn by
two horses, for one day, ss. ; for any carriage drawn by

more than two horses, for one day, 10s. ; and where such
licence shall be required for a longer period than one day,
the further duty of one-half the above-mentioned rates for
each day after the first day."
Mr. AYRTON considered that the resolution would

place a very unfortunate class of people in a worse position
than ever ; and he could only express a hope that the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer would yet be induced to place stage
coach proprietors in the same advantageous position as rail-
way companies.

The resolution was then agreed to, and, together with the
other resolutions, was ordered to be reported.
SAVINGS BANKS BILL.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved the
second reading of this bill.

Mr. HUBBARD gave notice that when the bill got into
committee he shculd move the omission of the clause rela-
ting to the conversion of terminable annuities.
The motion for the second reading was then agreed to.
SALMON FISHERIES (IRELAND) BILL.
The house then went into committee on this bill.
On clause 1 being proposed,
Mr. BAG IVELL moved that the chairman report pro-
gress.

- Mr. VANCE seconded the motion.
Some discussion as to the propriety of going on with the
bill so late in the evening ensued, after which the commit-
tee divided. The numbers were—

For reporting progress 9B
Against
Majority....

Col, VANDELEUR said the promoters of the bill
seemed• to be desirous of passing the bill, but he should
raise his voice in support of the interests of those whose pro-
perty was to be confiscated by it. Re begged to move the
adjournment of the debate.
The motion was negatived without a division, and the
house resumed.
ELECTIONS DURING RECESS BILL.
The bill was passed through committee.
JUDGALA'SNTS LAW AMENDMENT (IRELAND)
BILL.
This bill was read a second time.

AN CHORS AND CHAIN CABLES.
Mr. LAIR.O obtained leave to introduce a bi,l for regu-
lating the pros lug and sale of anchors and chain cables.
Who haws gAjourhod at half-put 9110 o'clock,

The house then went into committee of ways and means,
when

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved
the adoption of the resolution in regard to dub licences, re-
quiring all clubs occupying a house of the rent or value of
£lOO a year to take a licence of wines, spirits, beer, and to-
bacco, of £l7 Is., and 5 per cen:. thereon; and for , licence
to sell beer and tobacco only of £3 lOs , with 5 per cent.
thereon.

Sir W. JOLLIFFE understo)d a spirit licence to be a
tax upon retail profits. In the case of a club there was no
profit. This was a false principle of taxation, applying
what was perfectly right in the one case to another case
which was not at all analogous. He hoped,4herefore, that
the Chancellor of the Exchequer would take time to recon-
sider his decision.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER contended
that it was only an act of common justice to make the upper
classes pay the same mount of taxation on the machinery
by which the upper classes wore supplied with strong liquors,
as that which was paid on the machinery by which the
I,wer classes were supplied. But there was another reason,
namely, that in Scotland there had been indications of a
disposition to apply the co-operative principle with respect
to the supply of strong liquors to the poorer classes; and it
was not improbable that in the course of a few years that
practice would come before them for legislation, not alone
in its fiscal aspect, but likewise as regards the matter of
police.

Mr HENLEY said it was the intention of the Chancellor
of the Exchequer to guard the club-houses from the visits
of the police ; but there were a great many mess houses in
this town which wore above £lOO a year. Every one of
them would become a club, and they would elect the right
hon. gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer an
honorary member. (Laughter.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
no difficulty would ariso as to the place in which a mess
was held ; for the hall in which it was held would not be a
building rateable at £lOO a year.
Mr. HENLEY remarked that the right hon. gentleman
had altered his resolution before, and now he put in the
word " rating."
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied
that a more accurate definition would appear in the bill than
he could give viva voce ; but the Inland Board of Revenue
could not proceed in an arbitrary manner, and the halls of
colleges and the like would not come within the meaning of
the resolution.
After a few words from Mr. HENLEY and Mr. CARDWELL
with respect to some difficulty experienced formerly in Ox-
ford in dealing with dancing, but which the latter right
hon. member observed had no analogy to the case before
the committee,
Mr. CLAY said the proposition of the Chancellor of the
Exchequer was a small thing as regarded London clubs,
but it would be a very serious blow to clubs in the country.
He also disapproved of any proposition which tended to
assimilate clubs to pot-houses.
Col. DICKSON concurred with the hon, gentleman that
the proposal would be very injurious to country clubs.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
common sense of the matter was, that upon the co-operative
principle the members of clubs obtained strong liquors with-
out having paid the tax which the poorer classes were com-
pe led to pay in the houses they frequented. He asked the
committee to remove this inequality by supporting the re-
solution.
Mr. LIDDELL moved as an amendment the rejection of
the resolution.
Mr. WALTER seconded the amendment. The principle
on which the Chancellor of the Exchequer proceeds re-
minded him of a remark of Lord Bacon's, "that when it
was necessary to economise it was better after petty savings
than after petty gettings."
Mr. M. SMITH said there were no sales in a club, and
it was ridiculous to make the manager the person to take
out the license, for he was only the club servant.
Sergeant PIGOTT, who was received with loud cries of
" Divide," urged on the members not to lay themselves
open to inviaious insinuations by rejecting the proposal of
the Government. It would be said that when taxation was
proposed to affect themselves they were afraid to bear the
smallest burden. He belonged to a club in which the wine
used was the direct property of the wine merchant who
supplied it. There ought to be no question raised as to
ratable valuation, as was proposed in the altered resolution.
Lord A. CHURCHILL, in:supporting the resolution,
said the tax on an association of 100 working men would
only be a charge of 3s. sd. for each man.