The Sun.
London, England, 1837-02-04 00:00:00

without a Repeal of the Union."—("/
Oh, oh.) He could produce the • words of the on. and
Learned Gentleman in which he , ries of Hear, hear, and
li2
said he would never be
content, and that Ireland would. a ever, as he believed, obtain
complete justice, if she were content with any other measure than
a repeal of the Union. He (Mr S,)
believed in his con-
science that the object of the est ablishment of that Associa-•
tion was to repeal the Union bet ween the two countries, and
to overthrow the Protestant rclig ion in Ireland.
Mr. O'CONNELL said that the Hon. and Learned Gen-
tleman commenced his Parliame'a tart' career as usual with an at-
tack upon him. He ought to.: have had notice of it. He did
not stand in the same situat ion as the Honourable and '
Learned Recorder. He (Mr. O'Connell) was merely an agi-
tator, but the Hon. and Learn e.l Recorder combined the ca-
pacities of judge and agitator. , He was a political judge and a
political partisan. He mixed . agitation with his judicial cha-
actor, and enjoyed a pre-c aninenee enjoyed by no other
man whatever. As the LtonouTable and Learned Gen-
tleman had quoted him, he, begged when he quoted him
another time, he would quot n, 'him accurately. At different
periods, he (Mr. O'Connell).
'had said that he did not look to
this country with any hopes oC. 'obtaining justice. —( Hear, hear.)
He had now some remnant
h
did not despair for Irelan
op e,—
if ( Loud cheers, —but he
)
even England refused her jus-
tice.—( Loud chopsfror
.4 the Irish Members.)
Lord JOHN nusv
JELL did not rise to reply to what had
the `don. and Learned Gentleman opposite,
been said by
(Mr.. Shay ,c). Be wished to state again that he thought
it Inc"voenient to discuss questions in this incidental
manlier
he a but he would take some opportunity, in justice as
.nu ht to Lord Mulgravc's Government, to state the
case of that Government to the House, and as no notice had
be' en given of any motion of censure on Lord Mulgrave, or
inquiry into his conduct, he thought that the best op-
portunity ho could take for introducing. the subject, would
be on Tuesday next, when he was to move for leave
to bring in a Bill with respect to the Municipal Corporations
of Ireland. He would then state at full the case of the pre-
sent Government of Ireland ; and he would only say
,now
that for every act of Lord Mulgrave, and for every act of the
Government of Ireland, he considered himself fully as respon-
sible to that House as those with whom he had the honour
to be associated.
Mr. S. O'BRIEN felt the inconvenience of discussing a
question like this at present ; but after what had been stated
he could not help observing, that he believed that Association
to be formed to oppose the very policy which had been pur-
sued by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman opposite (Mr.
Shaw) and his associates. And he would take upon himself to
say, that if that policy were continued to be pursued by the
other side of the House, it would go far to associate together the
whole population of Ireland ; and then indeed it would become
a question to be considered whether the just rights of, Ireland
should not be granted even by the repeal of the Limon.—
( Much cheering.) He called upon Hon. Gentlemen therefore
opposite to be warned in time, and not to proceed in a similar
course to that adopted by them previous to the granting of
Catholic emancipation, so that that emancipation was at last
wrung from them in such a manner as to have left no ground
for its having been considered as a boon.—( Hear, hear.) The
resolution was then put and carried.
GRAND JURIES—IRELAND.

Lord MORPETH said he had given notice of a motion for
leave to bring in a Bill to amend certain clauses in an
Act relative to the Grand Juries of Ireland, and accord-
ingly he had now to lay that Bill on the table.—(Hear.)
The Act was introduced last Session, and the amendments
now proposed were not intended to bring forward any new
matter ; they were all almost entirely formal, and it was
very desirable that the measure should be completed before
the ensuing Session. It was not necessary at present
to enter into any detail of the particulars, therefore he
should abstain from going into them. One of the
amendments was calculated to extend the Act to children
who had been deserted. The Noble Lord stated the nature
of one or two of the other amendments, but in so low a tone of
voice, and amidst so much noise and confusion in the House,
that not only could we not hear distinctly, but several Hon.
Members called out—" We cannot hear a word." The Noble
Lord brought in the Bill.
Mr. F.- SH A W made a few observations, which were in-
audible in the gallery.
Mr. O'CONNELL thought it was absolutely necessary to
alter the law, as it at present stood, with regard to medical
attendance. In the most remote and thinly-peopled parts of
Ireland, it was impossible to procure any efficient medical
attendant upon the salary now allowed by the law. A
great portion of the funds subscribed must necessarily be
expended in procuring medical aid in all cases. He had great
doubts about the clause respecting deserted children. The
evils that had followed after the establishment of the Found-
ling Hospital in Dublin were enormous, and eventually led to
the breaking up of that institution altogether. At present the
parochial system was only in its earliest stage, but it was
well known that children were brought from one part of the
country to another, and there left destitute; and lie believed it
would be better to rely upon individual charity, than introduce
any system of that sort. He must protest, therefore, against
the plan of the Noble Lord, who would have abetter opportu-
nity of bringing this subject under the consideration of the
House, when he brought forward his Poor Law Bill for

Ireland.
Mr. LUCAS made a few observations, whith were quite
inaudible, from the noise prevailing in the House.
Mr. FITZSTEPHEN FRENCH regretted that the
Noble Secretary fur Ireland had not concurred in the
propriety of making some change in the system of re-
gulating Dispensaries in Ireland. He thought the present
plan ought to be immediately put a stop to ; it was, in fact,
nothing else than a gross job, by which an apothecary contrived
to receive a large sum of money for distributing a small quan-
tity of medicine to the poor. if the Noble Lord would look over
the reports of the Comniissioners on this subject, he might be
inclined to introduce a clause remedying the evil.
Mr. JAMES GRATTAN and Mr. W. S. O'BRIEN
were undurstocd to concur in the propriety of immediate le-
gislation on the subject of diepensarics in Ireland.
REFORM OF THE CRIMINAL LAW OF SCOT-
LAND.

The LORD ADVOCATE rose to move for leave to bring
in a Bill to amend an act of his late Majesty for restricting
the punishment of leasing making, blasphemy, and sedition in
Scotland. Ile said, that both by the common and statute
law, the penalties aad punishments provided for political
offences were peculiarly, severe.—(Hear, hear.) There was
in the year 1579, a law, enacting the punishment of death to
any person slandering, abusing, or doing anything for the pur-
pose of creating a misliking between the King and his sub-
jects ; and the terms of this law and of the crime provided
against were so vague, and the punishment so severe, that
it would have been thought that the severity would never
have been increased.—( Hear, hear.) In a few years after-
wards, however, in the year 1597, another Act was passed.
providing the punishment of death, if any person in conver-
sation or in writing said anything against the King or his Go-
vernment.—( Hear.) It would have been fortunate if these
laws had never been carried into execution, but unluckily,
they had been so in many cases—( Hear)---these laws had,
however, been partially repealed in 1703, and subsequently,
after many complaints, a Statute had been passed in the reign
of his late Majesty, which laid down the important pro-
vision, that the offences alluded to should not be punished
in Scotland otherwise than in England.—(Hear, hear.)
The law of England had, however, been since altered.
He considered that he had almost unnecessarily referred to
those statute laws, which were a disgrace to the statute book,
but it was very important in times most favourable to public
liberty that those severe punishments which formerly visited
civil offences in Scotland should no longer remain in the
statute book. (Hear, hear.) By removing them the stabi-
lity of country would be increased, and nothing would tend to
diminish crime more than the certainty that punishment
would follow the commission of it.
Mr. HUME could not allow the motion to be put without
expressing his conviction that every lover of liberty must be
pleased with the process that was now going on. It was true
many Acts remained in the Statute-books so bad that Govern-
ment dared not execute them ; the times bad been when bad
Governments and bad men being in power executed law's with
unusual severity.—(Hear.) They all recollected what took
place in 1792, 1793, and 1794, when some of our early
Reformers were destroyed under those laws for lending a
book to be read. Among those victims was a Barrister-at-
law, a man of family and education, who was transported to
Botany Bay, where he suffered all the infamy of a malefactor
and a felon.—(llear.) He knew nothing more disgraceful
in the history of our country than the Tory mis-rule
of that day.—( Hear, bear.) He hoped the House would be
firm in removing all those penal statutes, subject, as they had
been, to abuse, either from the corruption of Judges, or the
ignorance of Juries, he cared not which ; but he thought it
did become a Reforming Parliament to get rid of them
as fast as possible from the Statute Book.—( Cheers.)
Mr. WILK S would take the liberty of reminding the
Learned Lord-Advocate that whatever might be the nature of
some of the laws still existing in Scotland, they had laws quite
as severe and objectionable in England. To that very hour no
person could be a professor not alone in any University, but in
any College established by charter, unless he bad previously,
under the statute of Charles 11., signed a declaration of his
adherence to the Established Church. He trusted that laws
of so objectionable a nature would be in a short time swept
away from the Statute-book.—( Hear.)
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL was not aware that the
law was so very severe in its operation as had been just stated
by the Hon. Member opposite. This much he would say,
that if he found there was any reasonable ground for putting
such a construction upon that statute, he pledged himself to
bring in a Bill before the present session had terminated
to repeal it.—(Loud cheers.)
Leave was then given to bring in the Bill.
LAW REFORM (SCOTLAND.)
The LORD ADVOCATE then moved for leave to bring
in a Bill to make certain alterations in the duties of the
Lords Ordinary—in the establishment of officers of the Court
of Session, and the Court of Commissioners of Tiends in Scot-
land, and to reduce the fees payable in those Courts. It was
not necessary for him now to enter into any discussion upon the
subject, as he should have another opportunity when the prin-
ciple of the Bill came under the consideration of the House.
After a few words from Sir G E O. CLERK, leave was given
to bring in the Bill.
The LORD ADVOCATE then moved for leave to bring
in a Bill for the more effective recovery of small debts in the
Sheriffs' Courts, and for establishing Circuit Courts for the
trial of small debt causes by the Sheriffs of Scotland. He had
made many anxious enquiries upon the subject, and he found
that there was an anxious desire on the patt of the public for a
measure of this kind, in order to save the vast expense which
they were now put to in the recovery of small debts.
After a few words from Mr. C. FERGUSON, which were
inaudible, leave was given to bring in the Bill.
Mr. STE U ART then moved for leave to bring in a Bill
to regulate certain offices in the Court of Ezchequer in