The Sun.
London, England, 1863-03-14 00:00:00

ton to withdraw his motion, as it was of dimensions far too
great to be debated in committee. If the subject were
brought for discussion again before the house, they might
succeed in inducing the Government to go forward in re-
ducing colonial military expenditure.
Colonel DICKSON wished to know how it was that in
the present estimates the cost of commissariat establish-
ments was largely increased, although the provisions sup-
plied by them were diminished in amount:
Mr. ADDERLEY could not make out how transport ser-
vice in the colonies could be fot Imperial purposes.
M . A. MILLS leclined to withdraw his motion.
Sir E. COLEBROOKE wasof opinion that carrying the
amendment would have the effect of strengthening the
hands of the Government in dealing with the colonies in
regard to colonial military expenditure.
Mr. CAVE, while favourable to cutting down colonial
military expenditure, was of opinion that the house and
country would never agree to colonies where savage natives
existed, like the Cape and New Zealand, defending them-
selves in their own way.
Mr. CARZ-I E •IE said that if the motion were for the
general reduction of the vote by £BO,OOO, he would vote for
the bon. gentleman opposite.
Mr. A. MILLS altered the form of his motion to that of
a motion for a general redaction of the vote by the sum of
£BO,OOO.
Sir G. C. LEWIS said that this house was bound not to
tax the colonies. (Hear, hear.) But if they were to pass a
vote the effect of which would be to compel a colony to pay
into the exchequer a sum of £20,000, would not that be
taxing the colony ? (Hear, hear.) No doubt the Govern-
ment could recall its troops from any colony in which the
house thought the numbers were too large, and that would
be the proper course to be pursued. But to attempt to di•
minish the expenses of the commissariat department of the
whole army in order to lower colonial expenditure was cer-
tainly not the proper mode to adopt.
Mr. A. MILLS explained.
Mr. MONSELL could not understand how his right
hon. friend, who had promised last year, with the other
members of the Government, to taka vigorous measures
to reduce the expenses of the colonies, could make such
a speech as that which they hid just heard from him in
defence of expenditure for the colonies. (Hear, hear.) Was
it just that this country should pay for the military de once
of colonies which were so prosperous that they had a large
surplus of income over expenditure? His hon. friend the
member for Taunton had taken a practical course, and it
was not right to meet him with assertions that he should
have proceeded in some other form. He should support the
motion for the reduction.
Major GAVIN hoped that the house would not sanction
a reduction in the allowance, for the comfort and susten-
ance of the soldier who w-.s doing his duty, in the colonies,

to elsewhere.
The committee then divided. The numbers were—
For the reduction of the vote....
For the original sum
Majority agAinst the reduction —7
The next vote was for £630,385 for clothing and neces-
eerie%

Colonel DICKSON asked the Government to postpone
the further consideration of the estimates.
Sir G. C. LEWIS did not think eleven o'clock by any
means a sufficiently late hour to justify stopping on a sup-
ply night,
Mr. WILLIAMS wished to be informed what was the
meaning of an item .4 £25,000 for machinery in a vote for
clothing and necess•tries.
Colonel DICKSON said that he should move the reduc•
tion of the vote by £25,000. This was one of those items
for the non-combatant portion of the army which were

always increasing.
Sir (1. BO WYEC 3ondemned the system of maintaining
a number of establishments of a similar character, scattered
about in various places, so that Government might almost
be said to be constantly living in lodgings. The plan was
not only very inconvenient, but extremely expensive.
Mr. PAGET complained of the present system of mak-
ing clothing contracts, by reason of which the Government
always got badly and dearly served. He hoped that would
soon be altered.
Sir G. C. LEWIS defended the vote, which, he said, was
less by £36,000 than the vote of last year, and £20,000 of
it was for new buildings. The great portion of the
work was done at Pimlico, but the work was given out to
men and women, and was carefully inspected when made up.
Colonel KNOX said the establishment at Pimlico had
proved very satisfactory to the Government and the army,
and he hoped it would enable them to get rid of the double
system of contractors and a Government establishment.
Lord LOVAINE also bore testimony to the excellency
of the clothing supplied by the establishment at Pimlico.
Mr. MONSELL would give up the whole question if it
could not be shown that the clothing supplied by the con-
tractors was far i•uperior to that made at the establishment
at Pimlico.
Mr. M'EVOY said it appeared to him that the Govern-
ment in making the large workshops at Pimlico cont,
plated becoming their own manufacturers; and if so, it
would be better that, it should appear in the vote.
Mr. CARNEGIE pointed out several items of increase in
the vote.

After some further discussion,
The amendment was negatived without a divisicn, and
the vote was agreed to.
The Chairman was then ordered to report progress, and
the house resumed.
POST OFFICE SAVINGS BANK BILL.

This bill was re-committed for the insertion of amend
ments in the first clause.
BLEACHING AND DYEING WORKS ACT
AMENDMENT BILL.
This bill was read a third time and passed.
The house then adjourned, at 10 minutes after 12.