The Sun.
London, England, 1839-03-02 00:00:00

every facility for procuring them. It was due to the
Irish public, who viewed with jealousy the proceedings
of the Irish Commissioners, and it was also due to the
petitionrrs, that they Amid have an opportunity, either
in a Select Committee or at the bar of the House, of
proving their allegations. He would now bring up the
petition.

Lord MORPETH said that he thought the best
course would be to go into Committee, and he would
then state what the intentions of Government were.—
(Hear, hear.) It was no doubt true that the appoint-
ment of the Railway Cominission must necessarily
throw some obstacles in the way of Companies, which
had already procured Acts of Parliament. That Corn-
niiishn was appointed on the unanimous address of the
House, and as the Hon. Gentleman had stated, their
Report only came into the hands of Members in the
month of July last. A very long space therefore bad
not elapsed before the Government were prepared to
come fonvatA and state their intentions. He did not

think it would have answered the purpose of the public
convenience, if the Government had stated their object
to private individu its before announcing it to Perlis-
en-nt.—( I-fear, hear.) Of course any other observa-
tions which he had to make, it would be his
duty to make in Committee, and as to the hearings of
;be plan on the great Central Irish Railway, that would
i3e more apparent when they came to consider the mat-

r in Committee.
Mr. HODGSON HINDE said this was a question
,hich excited great interest on this side of the water, as
7cll as in Ireland. The House was aware that two
:4,,,5'0,s ago a Committee of this House had sat, of
xh:c!i the President of the Board of Trade was Chair-
II :a. The ItJportof that Committee, it was well un-

derstood, was satisfactory to the Members of the Go-
vermw,tt. In the motion which he brought forward
last y:•nr, the President of the Board of Trade quoted
from that Committee. Now nothing could be more de-
cided titan the terms in which that Committee reported
any proposals which could emanate from the
Nohl Lord in a Committee of this House. He begged
to c.. 11 the attention of the House to the Report.
rrir! Hon. Gentlemen hero read some passages from it.]
No sourer had the Committer determined upon their
'rep;:rt, than the Chancellor of the Exchequer came
lowa to• the House and made a motion for such an
ilddess to h;s late Majesty. At that time he (Mr. H.

'Elide) firmly b?lievea that that address was in con-
C,ren;ty with the 1t port, but that it was not in vonfor-
nlity with the Report, he thought no Hon. Gentle-
eial deny. He would ask whether the House
Lat ink; done one act contrary to the resolution of the
Corni2•:ttee, were to do another by calling upon the Go:
vernment to decide upon the mode in which railway
eolunnitc dtioa.s should take place. The Right Hon.
Gentleman, the President of the Board of Trade, had
quoted the Report against him,.and he had now to ask
that Right Hon. Gentleman whether that Report was
to be thrown to the winds because the Hon. Member
!:)r Deblia had pressed the Government.—(Hear.)
tlp_t House sanctioned such a mode of proceeding
there wonld be one measure of justice for Ireland, and
another fi)r Scotland, and he should take the sense of
the House upon the subject on its going into Com-

Mr. H. GRATTAN said that the statement of the
Huacurable and Learned Member opposite, that the
lionr,ur4ble and Learned Member for Dublin had

)ress,A the Government in the Committee, was owl
the usual elap-traps. The fact was that if any per-
ion had pressed the Government is the Committee it
Limself (Mr. Grattan). And if his recollection
the Hon. Member for Dublin did not attend
Committee.—( Hear.) He would recommend Hon.
q,inhors on the other Bide of the House to have some
eciiegs of icgard for independent and Hon. Members
side of the House on which he had the honour
o sit.—(Hear.)
Mr. HODGSON HINDE said that when he
:hit the Hon. Member for Dublin had pressed
:le Government, he stated it not only as a matter of
:Ict, of which he had been informed, but as a fact com-
ucder his own knowled4e, for the Hon. Member for
lablin had that evening presented petitions on the sub-
2ct to which he had referred.
Mr. O'CONNELL said that the allusion of the

lion. :Member opposite was most extraordinary. - HE
( 'Air. O'Connell) had certainly presented a petition that
night from his constituents in favour of a general railway
nleastye. Did the Honourable Gentleman call that
pressing upon the Government ?—( Hear, hear.) So
far from his interfering with the Government, the

`act w,ts directly the reverse. (Hear, hear.)
He had attended a meeting of his constituents in Dub-
lit), at which the Lord Mayor presided, and at which
also Lord Vesci attended. At that meeting there was
an oppoqtion, but he (Mr. O'Connell persuaded the
meeting to accede to the petition, and from that hour to
tl:e present, he had had no communication whatever
with the Government upon the subject.—(Hear.)
NGw, really he must say that it was unworthy of the
4100. Gentleman, as it was unbecoming the station
which he occupied, to make use of such expressions re-
garding him.
Mr. HODGSON HINDE said the lion. and
Learned Gentleman had accused him of having made
use of expressions which were unworthy and unbe-
coming. Now, he would wish to know what those ex-
pressions were to which the Hon. and Learned Gen-
tleman had alluded.—(Hear, hear.). His accusation

was not against the Hon' . and Learned Gentleman for
having acted in the way in which he had done, but it
was against her Majesty's Government that they had
been actuated in their decision by the opinions of the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman, and had on this question
given one measure of justice to Ireland and another to '
rest of the kingdom.—(Cheers.) He would con-
clude by moving as an amendment that that part of the
Report of Railway Committees, relating to Ireland, be
now read.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL—I rise for the purpose
of replying to the accusation of the Hon. Member.
The charge against the Government is, that we did not
look to the merits of the question, that our plan is
brought forward because it was suggested by the Hon.
and Learned Member for Dublin.—(Cries of No, no,"
from the Opposition benches, and " Hear, hear," from
the Ministerial benches.) That is the accusation, as I
understand it. Not against the Hon. and Learned
Member for Dublin, but against her Majesty's Govern-
ment.—(Hear, hear.) Sir, I will state, as far as
I have been concerned, what I have done in this
transaction. There was brought to me an address
from the House of Lords, whether suggested by the
Learned Member for Dublin or not I do not know.—
(Laughter.) An address was brought to me from the
House of Peers to his late Majesty, praying that he
would be graciously pleased to appoint a Commission
upon tire subject of Railways in Ireland. Sir, I con-
sulted , not with the Learned Member for Dublin, but
with various persons connected with Government, and
it appeared to me and to my Right Hon. Friend the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, that Mr. Griffin, a
gentleman well acquainted with Ireland, and
wiih these subjects—that Colonel Burgoyne, at
the head of Public Works In Ireland—that
Mr. Barlow, teacher of Mathematics at Woolwich—
a gentleman who had been consulted with regard to
Railways in England, and that Mr. Drummond, whose
scientific attainments, (waterer his political opinions
may be) cannot be denied—(Hear, hear)—that it would
be
very proper that these gentlemen should inquire into
the subject.—(Hear.) Well, Sir, these gentlemen
were appointed a Commission to investigate the sub-
ject, and they did so with very great labour and as-
siduity, not attending to party feelings—but applying
that science and that knowledge upon which they had
made a report to the House last year, and which does
contain as much knowledge and information and re-
seArch upon these subjects as was ever presented
in a public document.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
and therefore I must say for these gentlemen that at
least they justified the selection which we had made,
;n consequence, in the first instance, of an Address
from the House of Peers.—(Hear, hear.) Now, Sir, I
think, upon this Report, that it was the bounden duty of
the Government to consider what was the best propo-
sition which they could make to Parliament for the
benefit of Ireland and of the whole community.—( Hear,
hear.) My Noble Friend proposes to go into Com-
mittee, in order to state what that proposition is, and to
give his reasons for it ; and I do not think this House
ought to be deterred from hearing the arguments of my
Noble Friend by any vague imputations upon the Go-
vernment that we have not considered the real merits of
the question—that we have not considered the scientific
Report of the Commissioners—but that we were listening
to suggestions from others, for any paltry purpose—
which I utterly disclaim and despise.—(Loud cheers.)

Mr. HODGSON HINDE said that having made a
charge against the Government. he might be allowed
to state what that charge was. When he last
Session made a proposition upon this subject, it was
thought a sufficient answer to that proposition, that it
was contrary to the Report ; and now the Government
had brought forward a measure contrary to that Report,
which was to be attributed to the influence of the
Learned Member for Dublin.
Colonel PERCIVAL said there was great suspicion
in Ireland as to the Report of the Commission, though
admitted that to the members of that Commission no
susia..ion could attach. He wished to call the atten-
tion of the Noble Lord to this circumstance, that in the
original Commission there were these words :—" To
ascertain the best lines between any of the principal
Places in Ireland which it may be most desirable to con-
nect by railways, and for which Joint-stock Companies
may be willing hereafter to work." These words were
omitted from the Commission issued" by her Majesty.
The omission was calculated to increase the suspicion
which existed in Ireland, and he wished the Noble
Lord to explain it, and why it was that the ex-
t;na've district with which he (Colonel Percival)-
u as connected should have been thrown overboard by the
6n
Commissioners ostensibly because there were canals,
ibeuvote7tbat circumstance only showed that there was a
Lloereuntry fitted for Railroads.
d J. RUSSELL said he confessed that he could
of explain the omission of the words referred to. Uri-
' eq. he was responsible for the original Commis-
it: and for its renewal. He did not remember that