The Sun.
London, England, 1839-06-04 00:00:00

troul. This was almost the only subject he ever knew on
which there was one universal feeling expressed through.
into
a the country. He should support this Bill going
a Select Committee, and should not consider the subject
connected with revenue at all.—( Hear, hear, hear.) He
would say for the benefit of the people, at all risk,
110 away with this system, which was one of tl
greatest evils that ever had been inflicted upon them. It
was absolutely essential for the morals of the people that it
should be done away with,
Lord PORTMAN said that when this Bill was intro-
duced, which had been now so much complained of, he
moved that it should be read a second time that day six
months; and the Noble and Learned Lord (Brougham)
oa that occasion made a very elequent speech in support
of it, as he had now made in condemnation of it. How-
ever, as it was, he was happy the Noble and Learned Lord
had now applied his great mind to it. He ( Lord Port-
man) would have been disposed to hare supported a Bill
for the absolute repeal cf this Act. He believed there
could be no amendment of the Bill in advance, it
must be in retreat; and their Lordships would never
effectually accomplish the object until the Bill was
entirely repealed. The object of their Lordships was to
supply the poor with good beer to be drank in their own
'houses ; and the only way to do that would be to facili-
tate the sale of beer by the brewer to be drank off the
premises. He should consent to the second reading of
this Bill, in the hope that in a Select Committee it might
be made useful to the public. Nobody could take any
part in the way of getting rid of the Beer Bill who did
not do the greatest benefit to the poor.
Lord MELBOURNE said, that as this was a subject
of very great importance, and as there seemed to be a
general desire on the part of the House that it should be
referred to a Select Committee, he should not offer any
opposition to that ; at the same time he could not pledge
himself or the Government in the other House to the
adoption of thi3 Bill or any other Bill on this subject.
Lord BROUGHAM said that of course the Govern-
ment in the other House would exercise their own judg-
ment on the question, but he trusted to the good sense of
the Members of the other House that they would pay at-
tention to the voices of all the grand jurors, the magistracy,
and the respectability of the country. The Noble Mar-
quis ( Westminster) entirely mistook him (Lord B.) if he
thought he had changed his opinion as to the use of ardent
spirits. If the use of ardent spirits could be pet an end to
that would be a great benefit to the public, but he had
never been able to see a prospect of that yet. If the duty
on spirits were increased, then in proportion would illicit
distillation take place. He had thought when he
brought this Bill into the House of Commons
that if they gave better beer to the poor that would
discourage the poor from going to gin shops, and upon
that impression he acted. The popularity which the
Government in the other House thought they could gain
in the country by resisting a measure of the sort now pro-
posed, was nothing short of a popularity to be gained by
going against justice. There was a great disposition in
the other House to go against the Magistrates, and in that
way to gain a popularity with such persons as kept these
beer-shops ; but he (Lord Brougham) did not think that
Would tell in the long run. If there was to be an appeal
to the country, it would then. be for the Government to
consider whether they would consent to lose the favour of
the beer-shop keepers or the favour of the licensed victual.
lers to the amount of 56,000, scattered all over the country.
He knew the influence of licensed victuallers, and they were
not silent people. It was to be remembered too that in
running up the score at the Treasury for votes, it was
always considered that the publicans, the brewers, and the
bankers, were three of the most important classes of per-
sons to look to.—( Hear, and laughter.) That was accord-
ing to his experience.

The Marquis of WE STMINSTE R—And the Clergy.
Lord BROUGHAM—But the Clergy went on this
occasion with the three he had enumerated. There were
the soldiers too, who were not an uninfluential body, and
they were with him in this instance ; so that if his Noble
Friend would only look at that score, he (Lord Brougham)
thought that on reflection he must support thisßill. —( Hear. )
Things that he bad known done twenty years ago he was
morally certain could not be done now. He had known
magistrates at sessions refuse to give a new licence to a man
because he had not voted rightly. He was sure that would
not be done now. The magistrates now had their conduct
so narrowly scrutinized that no persons led more the life
of a toad under a harrow than they did.--(Laughter.) Ho
thought that in Committee they could so shape the Bill
as to protect justice. With respect to what the Noble
Marquis had stated relative to the purchase he had made,
such was its magnitude that one of the Noble Marquis's
halls or picture galleries could contain it.—(Laughter. )
As to the wines there, they were bad, but they had good oil.
—(Laughter.) He trusted that the Noble Marquis
would honour him with a visit, and if he did he
would show him a beautiful and healthy climate.
He had no objection to refer the Bill to a Select Com-
mittee, provided it was understood that it did not delay it.
If the House of Commons should, which he did not antici-
pate, he could not help it. Notwithstanding what his
Noble Friend had stated, he must say that the effect of
this Bill would be to repeal the present existing measure.
In conclusion he felt no doubt that their Lordships would
at once accede to the second reading of the Bill.
The Marquis of WESTMINSTER then withdrew his
amendment, and
The Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be re-
ferred to a Select Committee, to be named to-morrow.
Their Lordships adjourned at a Quarter past Nine
o'Clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, Jurri 3.
The SPEAKER took the Chair at the usual hour.
On the motion of Sir M. WOOD, the London Bridge
Approaches Bill was read a third time, and passed.
On the motion of Mr. BETH ELL, Raikes' Estate Bill
was read a second time.
On the motion of Mr. DENNISTOUN, the Black
Quarry and Anniesland Road Bill was read a second time.
On the motion of Mr. BAINES, the Lords' Amend-
ments to the Great Western Railway Bill were agreed to.
The Report on the Birmingham Canal Bill was
brought up.
Several Private Bills were forwarded a stage, but they
are read in so inaudible a tone of voice by the Clerk at
the table, that it is not often we can hear their titles.
PETITIONS.

The SPEAKER stated that in consequence of the
great press of petitions on national education and the penny
postage, he would take the Chair on Wednesday at three
o'clock.--( Hear. )
Sir G. STRICKLAND presented several petitions
from various parts of Yorkshire in favour of a penny postage.
Mr. M. PARKER presented petitions against the
Government education scheme ; and against theCopyhold
Enfranchisement Bill.
Mr. HUGHES presented petitions from parishes in
Carnarvonshire, against the proposed plan of National
Education.
Sir R. INGLIS presented petitions from various places in
the County of York, to the same effect; also a petition from
the Clergy of some Deanery in the County of Cornwall,
against the Ecclesiastical Discipline Bill; also a petition
from Bradford, in the county of Wilts, against the Eccle-
siastical Revenues Bill; also a petition from a place in the
county of Kent, in favour of Colonial Church , Extension ;
also a petition from Torquay, in the county of Devon,
against the encouragement of idolatry in British India.
Mr. PEASE presented a petition from Tavistock in
favour of a penny postage; also a petition from some place
in Scotland, praying for the total abolition of capital punish-
ment; and a petition from some place, the name of which
we could not hear, praying for some alteration in the Poor-
' law Amendment Act, more particularly as regarded the
bastardy clauses.
Sir EDWARD KNATCHBULL presented petitions
from some place in Kent, in favour of the Beer Bill ; also
several petitions from various places in the county of
Kent against the proposed plan of national education.
Mr. PL UM PTRE presented several petitions from
different parts of Yorkshire, Kent, Surrey, and London,
against national education.
PAKINGTGN presented petitions from Devon-
shire and Yorkshire in favour of a Church Establishment in
Canada.
Mr. COL QU HOUN presented a petition from Glas-
gow in favour of a penny postage, and against national
education.

I Mr. P. HOWARD presented three petitions in favour
' of a uniform penny postage.
' Mr. BLACKSTONE presented three petitions in fa-
vour of Church extension in the colonies.
Sir W. BR ABA ZON presented three petitions from
Mayo in favour of the present system of Corn-laws ;
also a petition in favour of a uniform rate of penny
postage.
Lord TEIGNMOUTH presented a petition against the
Government plan of national education.
Mr. GROTE presented 20 petitions, including one
signed by 300 members of the Stock Exchange, London,
in favour of a uniform rate of penny postage.
Mr. W. EVANS presented petitions from Derby and
Shoreland, in North Derby, praying that the mails might
not be allowed to run on Sundays.
Mr. LIDDELL presented a petition from Durham
against the bastardy clauses of the Poor-law Bill.
Mr. ESTCOURT presented a petition from the
Chancellor, Masters, and Scholars of the University of
Oxford, against the Government scheme of national
education.
Mr. BLACKETT presented a petition from a purely
agricultural district of Northumberland, signed by 84
farmers, and 286 agricultural labourers and mechanics,
praying for a repeal of the Corn-laws.—(Cheers.)
Mr. CHRISTOPHER presented a petition signed
by Sir David Brewster, and other eminent men, praying
that as the office of Queen's Printer in Scotland was to be
abolished the Universities in that country might be made
responsible that the text of the Scriptures would remain
pure.

- Mr. LUCAS presented several petitions from the
county of Monaghan against the Government plan of na-
tional education ; also one against any alteration in the
Corn-laws, and three from Presbyterians in Ireland, praying
that Presbyterian soldiers might be allowed to attend their
own chapels.

Mr. T. gG ERTON presented fifteen petitions from
the counties of Chester and York, against the Govern-
ment plan of national education.

Sir DE LACY EVANS presented four petitions from
Westminster, in favour of a penny postage.
Lord MAHON presented a petition from Bedford,
complaining that an officer, and other persons holding ap-
pointments under her Majesty's Government, had unduly
interfered with the constitutional right of petitioning. The
Noble Lord then moved that the petition be printed with
the votes of to-morrow, and gave notice that on Thurs-
day he should call the attention of the House to the
petition. The Noble Lord also presented a petition from
Bedford arrainst the Government scheme of national
education. .

JAMAICA.
Sir R. ING L IS presented a petition from W. Burge, Esq.
praying that ite might be heard as Counsel of the Assembly
of Jamaica against the Jamaica Bill. The lion. Baronet
gave notice that he should to-morrow submit a motion to
the House in conformity with the prayer of the petition.
PRICE OF PROVISIONS IN IRELAND.
Mr. F. FRENCH wished to call the attention of the