The Sun.
London, England, 1839-07-10 00:00:00

JAMAICA BILL.

..:

could only he done by one who was on the spot, and said the timber duties of this country keep our labouring
knew all of the circumstances. The mob, against whom population poorly lodged, because the American timber
that part of the police force were directed to act, were was not fit for the purposes of their houses. In his opinion
some of them armed with knives and other offen- the timber duties pressed even more hard upon our poor
I
sive weapons, and some of the police bad been wounded. than even the Corn-laws. It was a very important
He was glad to say that the last accounts stated that I question, and it led them to ask what excuse there was
those who had been wounded were not at present in for the continuance of those duties which pressed hardly
any danger. The next morning he received an account upon every productive class of the community. If any
from Birmingham, and 'a request to send down 40 more one deigned to answer his few observations, he had no
men. He hesitated somewhat with respect to the step, doubt he would hear the old watchword cry of " our
and consulted Col. Rowan, with the view of ascertaining ships and colonies—that our marine depended upon our 1
his opinion, what effect such a measure would have on the commercial navy—that it was greatly encouraged by
police force in general ; and Colonel Rowan, thinking our colonies, and our colonies could not purchase our
that a reinforcement of forty men would give con- manufactures unless we took their timber." He every
fidence, he sent them on the second day, and they day saw the result of discussion, and he was satisfied it
arrived that night at Birmingham It appeared, would be ultimately productive of good. After having
that although the military had acted with that given the best consideration in his power to the subject,
promptitude and temper with which they had in: he woulJ say that if there was one point on which he
variably acted on these occasions, and although the was able to speak with confidence, it was that their
special constables had not failed in their duty, yet the navy was in no way benefited by the seamen employed
presence and assistance of a small body of well-orga- in that branch of the commercial marine, and he was sa-
nised police had been exceedingly useful in maintaining tisfied that the bounty given was not only injurious, L
the peace of the town ; and every letter which he had but greatly retarded the prosperity of that country. The
received expressed a sense of the utility of this evidence of the Committee that sat in 1835 was conclu-
foree. He was happy to say, likewise, that sive on that point. Mr. Macgregor, and other gentle-
there was a letter this morning from one of the men well acquainted with the subject, stated that it had
superintendents of the police who was at present at the direct tendency to divert capital from its more
Birmingham, a man of character and intelligence, stating useful employment, and tempted men to embark in
that although great crowds assembled yesterday evening a most demoralizing and gambling speculation.—(Hear.)
in the streets, the metropolitan force acted everywhere Such had been the effect of these duties upon timber, and
with the utmost decision. Although it was unwise to it was shown that these colonies had sufficient support
mix up the police force in any case where they for their export trade, independently of timber. Ca-
would run the risk of being injured or disparaged in nada was enabled to support an export trade with its
the public opinion, yet he was of opinion there did agriculture, Newfoundland with its fisheries, Nova
occur many occasions in which the assistance of a small Scotia with its mines, and New Brunswick, if it was
body of policemen would be of the utmost importance. only allowed to employ its industry in a proper direction.
This had been the case lately at Trowbridge, where pro- Not only had they diverted the colonists from their
bably the barracks would have been burnt down but for natural occupations, but they had tempted them into a
their presence. He trusted that he should soon see business that was most hazardous and demoralizing. In
an efficient force established throughout the country. the first place, there was the fluctuations in price which
Captain WOOD wished to know if this force was to affected them more than speculators in any other trade,
continue at Birmingham. If this system was to be and the slight variation of price in the home market
pursued of sending the metropolitan police force through- very often ruined or made a man. There was also
out the country, it would be a considerable tax on the great hazard and risk in bringing the timber from
rate payers here. the wood to the ports—a great deal of timber was
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said, that in almost thus destroyed. The nature of the employment also
every case he had found the local authorities ready exercised a most unfortunate influence on the character
to contribute the greater part, if not the entire and conduct of persons engaged in it. The persons who
expenses of the police force when sent down. felled the timber were those who went forth together
He would also mention that he had thought it ne- in great bodies, who lived in the woods for eight months
cessary this year to ask for an additional sum of money in the year—released from all the influences of civil
for the police force, so that there might be a body of society, and who were exposed to great temptations in
police always disposable without ever diminishing the the use of ardent spirits. Their constitutions became
force necessary for the metropolis. impaired, and their habits reckless and immoral. And
TIMBER DUTIES. those were the persons for whose interests it was said
Mr. VILLIERS then rose to move, that the House this trade ought to be continued. The old impression
do resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House, that the timber trade was useful to emigrants had now
to consider the present Duties levied on Foreign and ceased to exist, but he was aware that one argument for
Colonial Timber. He felt it would be difficult to ob- the support of these timber duties would be, that inte-
tain the attention which a matter of so great importance rests were already engaged in it ; he believed those in-
deserved, at that period of the Session. Constantly terests were greatly over-rated. There was not much
reminded, however, as he was by those who importance attached to the monopoly by the great ma-
had placed him in that House of the injury jority of the colonies. He believed no objection to a
they had received from this and other commercial re- change of this unsound monopoly existed except among
strictions, he felt himself relieved from any diffidence in a class of persons usually termed the shipping interest ;
submitting it to the House, as no other person, he ob- and he did not deny that if they made any change there
served, was disposed to take the matter up, espe- were persons who might plead that their property would
cially as no better: ground was assumed for per- be deteriorated in value, but he denied that they ought
petuating abuse, or for sanctioning mischievous le- to sacrifice public interest to private gain. What pro-
gislation than that such subjects were not brought portion was it of the mercantile marine of this country
under the attention of the House. He might claim that depended on the timber trade ? In the report of
something like appropriateness in point of time in calling the Committee to which he had already alluded, the
the attention of the House to this subject, because they whole amount of shipping trading with those colonies was
were not only about to review the relations in which this stated to be 1,806 sail ; and deducting 440 which were
country stood with regard to her dependencies in North employed in carrying cargoes other than timber, wesuld
America, with which this question was connected, but the leave 1,360 vessels employed in the timber trade. There
House was fresh from hearing astatement from the Finan- were then only 1,360 ships engaged in the tirw.ber trade,
cial Minister, which showed we were in a course of expen- while the number belonging to Great Britain and her
diture in excess of our income ; and the case he wished dependencies were 25,600 ; and was this isle to be
to submit to the House was one in which the resources frightened from its propriety by so small a fraction of its
of this country were in his judgment more prodigally, shipping being thrown out of employment ? But why
uselessly, and mischievously wasted than in any other case should they be thrown out of employment ? Was it to
to which there was a parallel. In the correctness and be assumed that the foreigner was so much more skilful
justice of that view there was more unanimity of opinion in naval tactics or architecture—were they so much
throughout the country than on any other matter in more energetic and persevering than ourselves that they
which particular interests were opposed to the public would run away with the whole of the carrying trade ?
'advantage. Not an administration had existed for the The very same stale and stupid arguments were
East 12 years that had not condemned these duties, and he made use of when Mr. Huskisson abolished the mari-
thought it reflected great discredit on this country that time laws, and what had been the result of that wise
they should have been allowed to exist for so long a period. and statesman-like measure ? Why, since that time,
Even that last resource of those who were defeated in foreign shipping had increased 11 per cent, while ours
argument, a Select Committee, had been had recourse had increased no less than 29 per cent. Suppose we
to ; and the only consequence of it had been that it were to open our trade to the north of Europe—sups
had elicited further facts confirming the mischief corn- pose we were to take her timber, would not our ships
plained of. The story of these duties had been related be employed in bringing it here ? There had lately
to that House eight years ago by a Minister of the been a demand for shipping to bring us corn—had that
Crown, and be regretted that this story should thrown the trade into the hands of foreigners, or was
now have to be repeated. The House was, per- not our own shipping employed ? If any country were
haps, not aware that this article of necessary consump- able to compete with us it was America. Now, in 1821,
tion to the country was not produced in sufficient quan- our shipping compared with that of America, was
tities in this country to supply the demand. This defi- VI per cent., while in 1835 it was 39 per cent. He
ciency of supply amounted to 1,200,000 loads of wondered after they had seen that just so as commerce
timber annually.—(Hear, hear.) The countries from was left free, so it flourished, that the shipping interest
whence the supply of these article could be ob- should still cry out for the monopoly of the
tained were the north of Europe and the north of dark ages. It was said the manufacturers of
America, and there was this peculiar characteristic of this country were in favour of these dis'airninating
the supplies obtained from these respective countries— duties so as to have a monopoly of our Colonies,
the timber obtained from the north of Europe was Ile did not believe that our manufacturers of the
good and was cheap, and that from North Ame- present day held any such doctrines—they had no
rice was bad and was dear. Under these circumstances greater love for the trade of our colonies than for the
the House had to learn in what proportion the supply trade with foreigners. The States forming the Cora.
of this necessary article was imported from these res- mercial League were very shortly to meet, in order to
pective countries. Three-fifths of the timber consumed settle the terms upon which it should he continued, and
was imported from the country where it was bad and it very much depended upon ourselves in what relation
was dear, and less than two-fifths from that country to them we would stand. He hoped the Hose would
where it was good and was cheap. If any person see the necessity of affording him an opportunity of
should ask what could induce the consumers of this stating his views in Committee.
country to act in a manner so opposite to the ordinary Mr. WARI3URTON seconded the motion.
dealings of sane men—he would be answered that the Mr. Alderman THOMPSON was opposed to the
Legislature had imposed a duty of 555. per load, on the principles of the Hon. Gentleman, and would find it his
timber that was good and was cheap, and duty to oppose them at any period of the Session, Th:
a duty of only ten shillings per load on Hon. Member said he would be met with the old silo,.
y
that which was bad and was dear. Consequently there of our " Shipping and Colonies." He trussed the
was an inducement of 450 per cent. to consume that House would ever lend a willing ear to that old story—.
which was the most destructive, and the most incenve- they were second to no interest in this country. If the
nient, and the most injurious to the consumer. Hon. Gentleman had carefully looked at the evidence
He believed that the question respecting the quality given before the Committee of 1835, he would find that if
was not disputed by those who sought to maintain there were any greatly increased demand for timber in
the present duties. Their argument was not that the the north of Europe, the price would be greatly
timber was as good and as cheap on one continent as enhanced, because the timber was now all cut down on
on another, but they argued that the timber of the the banks of navigable streams, and increased expenses
north of Europe was so superior that if any alteration must be incurred in getting it. According to the plan
was made in the duties, the consumers would seek proposed by the Hon. Member, there would be no
exclusively for timber where it was best and cheapest. bounty given to Canadian timber at all, as the prices of
He would refer to the Report of the Select Com- that and the Baltic timber would be very nearly assimi-
mittee of the House of Lords, to estaclish what he lated. It must be remembered that Canada took four
had stated respecting the qualities of the article. That millions a year of our manufacturers, while her returns
Report stated that the timber of North America, in in produce was only 2,500,0001. The Hon. Member
every respect for which timber could be used, whether said the Canadians did not care for the protection, but
for the building of ships or for the building of houses, in 1836, when there was a rumour of a ehanebe, the Le-
was infinitely inferior to that of the North of Europe. gislature of Canada petitioned his Majesty for protec-
The Committee of the House of Lords, had called be- tion, as they stated any change would reduce their trade
fore them several well-informed persons, who had con- one-third and throw out of employ upwards of 8,000
firmed this view of the subject. All the persons who persons. The Hon. Member vas mistaken in suppos-
had been called before the Committee of 1835, had ing that the vessels made two voyages in the year—not
confirmed the views which had been taken eleven years more than one in three did, and that made the
before ; and if any doubt existed on the subject, there number of ships employed twelve thousand, ems
were two circumstances which would satisfy every one ploying, no less than twenty thousand searivsn,
of the justice of the statements. The fact was that this If they transferred the timber trade to the Baltic,
timber was ordered not to be used in any of the Dock- they would lose the Canadian trade, and throw the
yards, and a special provision was inserted in every whole carrying trade into the hands of thesse countries
building contract that the timber of America should not forming the league. Besides, look at Cie time when it
be used. There was one fact that seemed to dispense was proposed, when the people of Canada were in re-
with the reference to any individual, namely, that hellion ; our only hold upon them was our trade : it
the timber bore a very different price in the this question were now opciied it would encourage a
market. The next point to which it was im- wish for a separation frs,m the mother country. There
portant to draw the attention of the House, was the were other considerations than the late period of the
pecuniary loss the country sustained in consequence of Session for opposing the motion, and he trusted the
being compelled to import the dear and inferior article. House would resist it.
The public lost from a twofold source—from the dif- Mr. WARBURTON was surprised the Right
ference in quality and price. There were four forms in Hon. Gentleman the President of the Board of Trade #
which the wood was introduced—the fir timber, the oak appeared to he disposed to let this motion pass without
timber, the manufactured timber, called deals, and staves, an observation. When he (Mr. Warburton) used to
which were of great use. Upon estimating the differ.. bring a similar motion before the Holse;:h
OtpirAnioignh:.
ence in the price and the quality it would be found, lion. Gentleman used to cheer him, and he hoped the
that upon every load of the fir timber which was brought Right Hon. Gentleman had not changedi hi,
into this country there was a loss of 21. ss, and the like The Hon. Member opposite had dwelt as usual on the
loss took place with respect to oak ; on deal there was number of ship-builders and shipping that would be
a loss of 171. and on staves 38/. This produced, ac- thrown out of employment if a tree trade in timber
cording to the calculation he had made, a loss alto- were agreed to. He (Mr. Vsrarburton) did not be-
gether of 1,500,000/., in consequence of theibounty that liege that that would be the case ; but why did they not
was given for the importation of this inferior wood. establish a good system of colonization ? Again there
The Hon, Member for Dundee, in his work upon the would be a source of immense employment for shipping
a freoeuldsysetpeemn
subject, had estimated the loss at one million ; in the corn trade, and by their adopting
and one witness, who was examined before of colonial trade. By so doing they would lower the
the Timber Committee had stated the loss to the price to the consumer in this country, and w
country in twenty years to be no less than 30,000,0001. immense markets for the_ employment_ of shipping.
He
There was another mode by which the revenue sustained believed nothoinfgthwould force the Legisla,:iturisv-eoottoo
the
a loss, and that was in consequence of the manner in consideration
hoped
subject until they were
which the duties were imposed. By that means alone alternative (as he they would be) a imposing ad-
the revenue lost 12s. on every load. He thought the ditiona taxes, or opening their ports for the importation
country ought not to sustain such a loss unless it was of goods from the cheapest market, and finding new
shown that it was a necessary evil, and that the advan-
l c employment.fortheir shipping in the various wave
tages derived from having that species of timber coon- which hehad pointed out.—(Hear, hear, hear.)
tervailed the loss. He believed that the advantages n, and not till then, would the almost exploded
were in no proportion to the loss. In 1835, a Com- doctrines of free trade be again viewed with some
mittee of that House had recommended a changehad in favour. by the Legislature. It was needless for him to
the mode of adjusting the duties, by which he been. go into details on this question, as he had very fully ex-
informed it had been calculated the revenue would gain pressed his opinions before the Committee on the
upwards of 1,000,000/. Why that recommendation timber duties. He still entertained the opinions he had
had not been adopted he did not know, but he was con when a timber merchant, and he believed the time would
vinced that it ought to have been. The_ importance of come when they would again have recourse to that
this subject to the labouring classes
could not be over- system under which, prior to the establishment of this
rated when the considered the situation in which monopoly, the country and its trade had flourished.
y
thousands of that class were placed.—(Hear, hear, Mr. P. THOMSON did not think it was one
hear.) From an account that he had received relative of the necessary duties of a person filling his
to Stockport there
were no less than 1,253 families situation to get up at any particular time which
living in damp and dark cellars, where they were subject might be selected by any particular Hon. Member.
to fevers and various other diseases. In many instances His Hon. Friend the Member for Bridport bad dealt a
two families were huddled together in the same room. little hardly with him when he expressed astonishment
This might be prevented if this very necessary article of at his not rising immediately after the Hon
Memberhis own,—
building could be procured at a cheaper rate. If gen- who had spoken only secoisd in the debate.—(Hear.)
tleinen would refer to the Reports of the Poor-law and His (Mr. P. Thomson's) object was to hear the opinions
other Commissioners they would find that statement of other Gentlemen 'before he interposed h
fully borne out. Good timber was a very necessary part (Hear, hear.) He was glad the Hon. Member for
of the dwellings of the poor. He had been much struck Wolverhampton had brought this subject under the at-
with
the words of a late writer who gave an account of tention of the House, but if he (Mr. P. Thomson)
his travels in Norway—he said the labouring population found that discussion on such subjects did not meet with
of Norway were much better, and more comfortably due attention from the House, it would be unbecoming
floors, with wooden
lodged than their fellows in England, Scotland, and Ire. in him to bring them forward, unless be thought a prac-
land
ti
; their dwelling-houses were divided into different tical effect would he produeed.—(Hear, hear.) In
floors and plenty of windows,n 440 year 1835 he load obtained a Committee, and