The Sun.
London, England, 1839-03-20 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY, MARCH 20, 1839.

I them advice. He was afraid that advice would be
limited to a mere extension of the principles which they
advocated—(Hear, hear)—and in that limited view he
did not hesitate at once to respond to it. Perhaps they
would for that purpose kindly permit him to correspond
with their Secretary at Manchester, and when the time
arrived whe❑ they could send lecturers over to Ireland
with advantage, he should announce it to them, and he
should also take care that arrangements were made to
prevent the attempt being abortive, by securing the
largest audiences, and the most convenient places for
holding these lectures.—(Hear,). He had net the
slightest doubt that the interests of the agricultural
classes would be largely promoted by the repeal of
these laws, and that the result would be to
extend the manufacturing resources of that country.
Common sense had nothing to do with laws which en-
abled one class of the people to plunder another, which
was the case with the Corn-laws. He had heard the
address, and quite agreed with it, so far as it went ;
but it they would allow him to say a few words he would
attempt to give them some advice, but if be infringed
any rule of the Delegation, he hoped they would stop
him at once. He could not help thinking that they did
not go far enough.—(Cheers.) They intended an ap-
peal to the people of England, not the Charter appeal
of daggers and torches—they intended an appeal to the
Electors of England, but how was it that they had 147
gentlemen in the House of Commons, except that your
elective franchise is too contracted. He had always
found that a defeat helped to strengthen for a future
victory if it was well attended to. The difference of
opinion amongst them ought to give way for the great
object, otherwise they would work according to the
famous plan of Lord Castlereagh—they might dig a
hole one clay, and fill it up another.—( Applause.)
Without an extension of the suffrage, it would be like
the tragedy of Hamlet, with the part of Hamlet left out.
—(A laugh.) The only way to make an impression
upon the House of Commons was to show that they
were discontented with the men who were there.
Let them do so, and they would break down all diffi-
culties. That was the way in which John Bull of old
went to work ; if he could not get over the difficulty he
went round it.—(Applause.) It was so very ridiculous
that even a child would laugh at any one who said we
ought not to have bread as cheap as possible ; yet it
took the friends of the cheap bread five nights attempt-
ing to convince the House of Commons of the truth of
that fact ; and yet they failed, for their opponents still
cried out, " Hurrah for a high price for bread, and down
with Common Sense."—(A laugh.) He was for Com-
mon Sense, and therefore his advice was that the Dele-
gates should influence Parliament by increasing the
-franchise. They had the Chartists driving their own
way, in such a manner as to drive away the timid and
the conscientious from the ranks of Reformers.—(Ap-
plause,) Such violence now going on was an additional
reason why gentlemen of such character should come
forward and demand an increase of the franchise.
There could be no fear of violence from them, and many
would join them who now stood aloof.—(Cries of
Hear, hear.") They would pardon his advice, but
throughout life he had always made it his practice to
speak as he thought. If they could look into his thoughts
he was liable to be wrong—but if they could see
into his breast they would see his thoughts in the
same guise as his words.—(Applause.) Without such
an extension of the suffsage, they would labour in vain
—if they attempted that means, from the characters
they bore, he would prophecy they would succeed.
The Report was then agreed to. _

Mr. PUNT said he had-drawn up four resolutions to
meet the accusations brought against the Delegates.
It was known that the manufacturers had been accused
of raising this agitation, because they wished to place
the labourer entirely in their own power, and depress
wages in order to get greater profits for themselves.
They were also accused of being dishonest and in-
terested in wishing to retain protecting duties in their
own favour, whilst they wished to remove all protection
front agriculture. These two accusations lie had endea-
voured to meet by the resolutions which he should shortly
have the honour to propose. It had also been stated that
the Delegates had taken too narrow a basis on which
to found their claim for a repeal of the Corn-laws. He
should endeavour to meet that by moving another reso-
lution, in which the great principle of free trade was
fully acknowledged. He was of opinion with Mr.
O'Connell that they ought to put their opponents en-
tirely and completely in the wrong. He thought that
no political steps should be taken until the amount of
their moral strength had been brought to bear on the
question----that if it should then appear, in spite .of
the prevailing conviction on the bulk of the people,
that these laws were injurious and pernicious to the
national interest, and the Legislature refused to grant
them justice, they would not be men if they did not de-
termine to adopt the ulterior measures which should be
necessary for their protection. If they did not, the
social machine would come to a stand-still ; some of the
worst evils of the country would be irremovable.—
(Hear, hear.) He would now move the resolutions
which might be either put seriatim, or en masse
I. That this meeting has heard with indignation the
charge of seeking the repeal of the Corn-laws in order to
raise the profits of the .capitalist at the expense of the
wages of the labourer. That the charge is a gratuitous
imputation
~of sinister motive, and therefore calumnious
and unjust—the more so, liecause repeal has been sought
for this, amongst other reasons, that it would enlarge the
field for the employment of labour, and therefore raise both
the absolute and the relative amount of wages. That this
meeting is greatly surprised at the ignorance and absur-
dity of the charge, because in its opinion the relative pro-
portions of profits and wages are independent of the mere
will of the capitalist, being determined by the relative
quantities of the supply of labour and the demand for it ;
and, knowing no distinction of interest betwixt the em-
ployer and the workman, it deeply regrets that the con-
trary opinion, so dangerous to the peace and happiness of
society, should have received any sanction from the quar-
ter in which the accusation originated.
11. That the Corn-laws and the duties on the import of
foreign manufactured goods, having been studiously repre-
sented as perfectly analogous and equally protective
of the respective classes of agricultural and manufactur-
ing producers, this meeting would direct attention
to the specific operation of each. That the high rate of
duties on foreign grain has given to the landowners a
monopoly of the supply of the home markets (except in
years of great scarcity), which has enabled them to realize
a scale of prices ranging from sixty to seventy per cent
above those of the continent of Europe, and thereby
greatly enhanced the value of land, and consequently the
amount of rent. That the protecting duties on the im-
port of foreign manufactured goods have given but one
advantage
.to the British manufacturer, the possession of the
home market ; being entirely inoperative to raise the
price of the commodities he produces, or to increase either
the profits of capital, or the wages of labour, both being
necessarily regulated by the prices d which similar goods
can be sold by the foreign manufacturer with whom he
has to compete in the common markets of the world.
111. That the imputation of dishonesty, on the part of
the manufacturers, implied in the statement that the wish
to retain the protecting duties on the importation of fo-
reign manufactures, while they demand the total abolition
of the Corn-laws is unwarranted and unreflecting--un-
warranted because the most important petitions presented
to the Legislature during the present Session of Parlia-
ment for a repeal of the Corn-laws, have distinctly prayed
for the removal of all restrictions on the free exchange of
commodities betwixt nation and nation; and unreflecting
because the design to retain the one whilst demanding the
abolition of the other, is most palpably futile, since the pre-
ponderance of the agriculturists in the Legislature gives to
them the absolute power when they shall do justice to the
consumers of food by repealing the Corn-laws, to do jus-
tice to the consumers of manufactures, by removing all
protecting duties on foreign fabrics.
IV. That this meeting would distinctly acknowledge
the great and peaceful principle of free trade, and for the
following reasons :-
1. Because it recognises the inalienable right of all
producers to the free disposal of the fruits of their capital,
skill, and labour—a right which cannot co-exist with pro-
tecting or prohibitive duties on import and export.
2. Because it would remove in each particular commu-
nity the jealousies and discontents which grow out of
protection, real or supposed, to class and sectional interests.
3. Because it would lead surely and necessarily to the
full development of the resources of all nations, and
would thereby raise the mass of commodities to its highest
amount, relatively to the mass of the population of all,
and by exchange would lead to the fullest possible parti-
cipation, by each nation, of the peculiar products of all

the rest.
4. That wherever a commodity is procured at the dearer
price instead of the cheaper, there is a throwing away and
destruction of national wealth equal to the difference of
price.
5. Because it would powerfully facilitate the growth and
the diffusion of knowledge, civilization, and religilm.
6. Because it would link nations together in such close
bonds of mutual dependence and interestas would powerfully
tend to the prevention of the occasions of war, whilst the
strong bonds of mutual good will and amity which would
grow out of that mutual dependence would remove the mo-
tives in which ant worst of human calamities has, in almcst
all instances, originated.
Mr. WILSON, of Kendal, seconded the resolutions.
It had been painful to him as a manufacturer to hear
reflections cast on them by their opponents, as though
nothing like philanthrophy could dwell in the heart of
manufacturer.—(Hear, hear.) He could honestly
state that since he had come to London he had honestly
turned this subject over in his own mind, and he could
solemnly state that self-interest did not influence him
—that it had not the weight of a feather i❑ the scale,
but that justice and humanity were the sole objects
he had in view ia advocating the repeal of the Corn-
laws.—(Cheers.)
Mr. HIGGINS, of Macclesfield, suggested that the
resolutions moved by Mr. Plint should be read and
passed separately.
Mr. PLINT then read the resolutions seriatim, which,
a few verbal amendments having been made, were car-
ried unanimously.
Mr. STURGE said he bad a resolution to propose,
which was of great importance, inasmuch as it related to
the sinews of war for carrying on the agitation. He was
glad that the attention of the Delegates had been
turned to Ireland as well as to England, for through
the important assistance of Mr. O'Connell he felt they
should he able to show the labouring classes of Ireland
how the Corn-laws pressed upon their interests. He
thought it one point of great importance in the agita-
tio❑ of this question, that they would succeed in bring-

ing out all that could be said in defence of the law.
Though he had his own opinion as to the state of the re-
presentation, yet he considered that they would at pre-
sent most efficaciously serve their cause by put-
ting their opponents entirely and completely in the
wrong. The more the question was agitated, the more
just would their cause appear; it was their in-
tention to get lecturers, and he hoped they would
go into the agricultural districts, because be was
convinced that the agricultural peasantry suffered
as much from the operation of these laws as
any class in society. Ile had every hope that this
question of the total and immediate repeal would he
tried again during the present session—he understood that
such would be the case, and he thought it was impor-
tant it should he so, because it was of importance that
the country should know who were those Members
who were in favour of a tax upon the food of the
people. There would be many expenses connected
with this great agitation ; among other things he was
glad to see that it was their intention to establish a
periodical. There would also he the travelling, ex-
penses of their agents besides their salaries, and if this
agitation was to continue twelve months the sum asked
for was as little as could be asked for under the circum-
stances. He then proposed a resolution, to the effect
that 5.000/. should be raised, for the purpose of being
placed at the disposal of the Delegates, and that those
who contributed 501. to the fund should have one vote
in the disposal of it—all other matters to be decided by
a majority of the votes.

Mr.
Went seconded the resolution, and he trusted
the Delegates would bear with him for a few
moments. He thought that if in the present
state of the Delegation, considering the purposes for
which they had been sent there, they had taken into
consideration the question of the representation, they
would perhaps have been going beyond the law of
their Delegation, and exceeded their powers ; but he
would put it the Delegates now they were about to
return to their constituencies, whether they ought not
to appeal to their constituencies, and ask them whether
it would not be advisable to extend the basis of their
operations. The present was a question of the most
vital importance—it depended upon the result of their
efforts whether that country would be able to maintain
the position she had hitherto held—it was, however,
but a part of a much greater and more important
question—that of free trade, and it behoved them, if it
were only for the purpose of embracing that question
in all its ramifications, that they should extend
the operations of the Delegates.—(Hear, hear.)
They were met at every quarter, and at every turn, by
allegations for the duties that existed for the protection of
manufacturers—by the allegations of Ministers that
the revenue would be reduced. They must be prepared
to meet these objections, and to enlist the sympathies
of the great mass of the people on their side, and throw
down the gauntlet to the Corn-law Legislation, and the
the tea and sugar system of duties by which the bur-
den of that taxation was shifted, and an undue pro-
portion placed upon those who were least able to bear
it. There was another question which he wished to
impress upon the Delegates, and through them upon
their constituents, and that was that if they were
honestly earnest in urging the question of the repeal of
the Corn-laws—if it was of importance that the ques-
tion should be carried, and that they had arrived at a
point where argument ceased to be available—they
must not shrink from asking the question of what it was
that had made these arguments of non-avail.--(Hear,
hear.) It would perhaps, in such case, become neces-
sary to inquire what was the constitution of that body
which rendered it insensible to arguments by which
others were convinced.—(Hear, hear.) He was at the
same time most anxious that the bowl which united
them should not be broken, and for that reason he had
agreed to the adoption of the Report, for the purpose of
carrying the views of the Delegates into effect. But he
would not be doing justice to himself or the opinions he
entertained, if he did not declare that that further
question must be entertained before they could have
any hopes of carrying their object.—(Cheers.) The
exhibition in both Houses of Parliament was really
pitiable ; they had a so-called Liberal Minister, endea-
vouring to explain the difference between taxation for
the purposes of finance, and taxation for the purpose
of crippling and ultimately destroying their trade.
On the other hand they had that Minister's great rival
courting the favourable opinion of the public—they had
him shuffling and juggling upon the discrepancies of
opinion that existed, on the metaphysics of economy
among those who had attempted to sound that dim
gulf, and claiming for himself that he is not to entertain
any fixed opinion upon the practical part of the ques-
tion.—(Hear and cheers.) He trusted that such ex-
hibitions which had been cheered by both Houses of
Parliament, would not be lost upon the country. He
trusted when the Delegates met again he would find
them prepared to enter on these two questions—enlarg-
ing the sphere of their operations so as to grapple with
the whole question of free trade ; and secondly, that
they would be prepared to show their adherence to the
great cause by demanding the re-construction of that
Legislature to which they were beholden for their late
defeat. He did not pretend to speak the sentiments of
the Delegates, but he would not be doing justice to the
views he entertained, if he did not press upon their con-
sideration the entertaining of these questions.
The CHAIRMAN said it was of very great importance
that they should obtain the repeal of the Corn-laws next
Session, for in 1841 the Prussian League expired, and
there must then be a new arrangement. It happened
also that in the same year the protecting system was to
be put an end to in America. After that year all taxes
were to be levied for revenue, and not for protection.—
(Hear.) It was singular that in the same year also the
Brazilian Treaty expires. Therefore unless they were
able to carry the repeal of the Corn-laws next year, it
would be too late after, because the free trade countries
would have made their arrangements, and would keep
us out of their own and other markets. It was there-
fore necessary that they should put forth every effort to
obtain the repeal of the Corn-laws, and so save the
commerce of the country.
The motion was then put, and carried unanimously.
Mr. G. A. YOUNG had to move the adjournment of
of the Delegation, and that it be left to the Manches-
ter Association to determine the time when another mo-
tion for the total repeal of the Corn-laws be made.
In doing so be felt that it was due in justice to himself
and to those whom he represented, to say that he
agreed in all that had fallen from Mr. Weir. He had
given up his own opinions for a time for the sake of
unanimity, and in order to promote the object they
had in view. The manufacturing interests were bound
to inquire why it was that they had been so treated by
the House of Commons. He was ready and willing to
do so, and he believed that a large majority of the
Delegation were of the same way of thinking.
Mr. BOULTBEE, in seconding the motion, expressed
his concurrence in the opinions of Mr. Young.
Mr. STURGE could not refrain from expressing his
satisfaction at the cordiality and unanimity with which
the business had always been conducted.—( Hear, hear.
With respect to the intereiew with the Common
Council, the idea was not abandoned, but would be
referred to the consideration of the Delegates at Man-
chester.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. PARKES thought it important the public should
know something analytically with regard to the division
of the House of Commons on this question—(Hear)
—and he had caused an analysis to be made of the first
motion which had been brought forward by theViliers. He had not yet bad time to carry out divi-
sion of last night, but he intended to do so on a future

day :
Majority and Minority on Mr. Villier's Motion to hear
Evidence at the Bar of the House of Commons in
support of the Petition of Mr. J. B. Smith, and
others, on the 19th Feb. 1839 :
Majority against the Motion
Minority for the Motion 173
The Majority represented Constituencies registered in
1838, as containing
The Minority
The Majority contained 112 English
11 Welsh
17 Scotch County Members.
32 Irish
191 Borough Members.

363
The Minority contained 9 English
4 Scotch
-(
County Members,
8 Irish
152 Borough Members.

Mr. PAnizEs said that gentlemen might consider
this analysis not very favourable to the ultimate suc-
cess of the great question of abolition of the Corn-
laws ; but he deemed the truth always better looked
in
the faco. They had little chance of repealing, or even
modifying those laws while the Commons House of Par-
liament was constituted as at present. The Reform Act of
1832 had thrown the country into the legislative hands of
the agriculturists. Had Lord Grey's Bill been carried
as originally framed, this result would not hare hap-
pened ; but after Lord Grey failed to reduce the
number of the House of Commons—the most valuable
principle in his original measure, the surplus of the re-
presentation proposed to he reduced was given to the
counties, in addition to the share they enjoyed previous
to 1832. Besides, that class gain of the counties, the
Chandos clause was infused into the Reform Bill, which
gave upwards of
100,000 v9tes to the agricultural
tenantry, and rote., not their own, but their land-
lords'. Further, the other classes invested newly with
the county franchise were not half the number of the
and the Reform Bill, moreover, dis-
franchised those old freeholders as county voters who
voted in towns in respect of their freehold properties.
Again, the agricultural interest swamped the original
Reform Bill by the rural boundaries added to the smaller
class of old boroughs—a class oboroughs which might be
denominated " little counties."—(Cheers.) They must
also bear in mind that the constituencies were miscon-
stituted in classes—agricultural and town bodies, exclu-
sively representing particular and sinister class in-
terests, instead of being equitably divided as to num-
bers, and mixed in charact:r. In fact, as the Reform
Bills ultimately passed, they were framed on no prin-

c!p!es of a real representative system. All was mix-re-
presentation, and much of the existing. system most cor-
rupt and demoralizing.—(Loud cheers.) He would
give them an analysis of the last returns for the cities and
boroughs of England and Wales, by which sample they
might judge of the whole representation, and the almost
hopelessness of their present object. 201 English and
WTelsh cities and boroughs returned 337 Members to
the House of Commons. Of these,

Members.
60 boroughs with a population over 20,000 returning 110
37 lO to 20,000
68
36

201 337
The constituencies of these 201 English and Welsh
boroughs in 1838, were as follows, in relative number :-
7 boroughs, upwards of 10,000 voters, return 16 IVlemb.
. 4 to 10,000
2 to 4,000
.. 1 to 2.000
500 to 1,000
300 to 500
under 300

39 .
64 .
37 .
30 .

201 337
Now, he would ask the meeting how they could be sur-
prised at the division last night? Construct the repre-
sentation on equitable and common-sense principles, and
would Mr. Villiers have been thus defeated ? He was
not wishing to mix up the question of further Parlia-
mentary Reform with the discussion of the Corn-laws ;
but these facts were proper for them to know, and to go
forth to the country.—(Cheers.) He repeated, it was
common sense to look truth in the face, and not to ex-
pect good legislation from a Legislature thus consti-
tuted. He would similarly analyse the division of Mon-
day night, and he did not doubt that the analysis would
exhibit much the same figures.—(Cheers.)
Mr. COBDEN did not think the principle they had all
adhered to, of abstaining from party politics, ought to
prevent them giving publicity to the statistical facts
mentioned by Mr. Parkes. He should be mistaken if
their measures did not end in re-constructing a national
party—a party that would not aim at mere names, but
would have for its object the benefit of the people—a
bountiful supply of food, fuel, clothing, and good lodging.
—(Hear, hear.) Until they had a national party with
such objects in view, he did not care what party go-
verned—be would be of neither.—(Hear, hear.) With
the permission of the Chairman he would move that an
analysis, entirely confined to figures, be given of the
votes on the divisions in the House of Commons ; that
that their Parliamentary agent—than whom he believed
no one was more competent to perform the task—
should be requested to draw up the same, and that that
analysisbe annexed totheir report and published.

Mr. ST URGE seconded the motion. -
Dr. Bowarsc, said that of course the names of the
Members who voted pro and con would accompany it.
Mr. Wm. Monats—As well as the" pairs."
Lord NUGENT suggested that the analysis, before
being published, should be submitted to the Delegates,
so as to be sent forth under their authority.
?Ir. COBDEN thought this suggestion very valuable,
and said, that as, in all probability, a few gentlemen
would remain in London, a Committee should be formed
for that purpose.
The motion, with the suggested amendments, having
been agreed to, _ _

Colonel THOMPSON said that they had received the
advice and assistance of a gentleman on this question,
and to whom their most grateful acknowledgments
were due for the great service he had rendered
their cause ; they had received the assistance
of the chief of a vast majority of the people
of Ireland, in endeavouring to acquire what
was considered an English question, but which, he
hoped, would soon be considered as an Irish question
also. He believed that Mr. O'Connell's speech of last
night had done more service to their cause than all they
bad done put together—he had offered them his as-
sistance, and, if he would devote those great abilities with
which nature endowed him to the furtherance of their
cause, there was no man living so calculated to
enable them to effect their object. It was only an
act of justice to Ireland and Irishmen to mark, in an
especial manner, their sense of gratitude for the very
efficient assistance they had received from Mr. O'Con-
nell—he scarcely knew, how they could accomplish it,
but he would suggest the necessity that existed for
their showing in some especial manner their sense of
the assistance which that gentleman had rendered their
cause.

Mr. COBDEN said that a vote of thanks was likewise
due to Mr. Villiers, but in proposing it he wished to
observe that Mr. Villiers had brought forward his last
motion on this subject totally independent of the Dele-
gates ; he thought it necessary to mention this because
as their object was a total and immediate repeal, and as
Mr. Villiers' motion did not go to that object, the De-
legates thought it necessary that this explanation should
be given. He then proposed a vote of thanks to Mr.
Villiers, which was seconded by

Mr. BARKER of Preston, and carried unanimously.
A person who said his name was M'CoNNELL then
rose to address the Meeting, when
The SECRETARY said, " That is the gentleman who
came here the other day to propose that the Delegates
should make use of guns, pistols, and daggers, and it is
for the Delegation`to determine whether a person mak-
ing use of such language shall be permitted to address
them.

A DELEGATE proposed that no one but Delegates
should address the Meeting.
Mr. III'CoNNELL said that the attack of the Secre-
tary was unfair, for the expressions ha made use of were
merely in joke.

Mr: LONGLAND, of Derby, said that Mr. M'Con-
nell had made similar propositions to him, ,in sober
seriousness.

Lord NUGENT expressed his horror and detestation
of such principles.

After a few words from Colonel THOMPSON, and
other Delegates, it was determined he should not ad-
dress the meeting.

Colonel THOMPSON moved that the thanks of the
meeting be offered ,to Mr. O'Connell, for the valuable
assistance given to our object in his speech of last night,
in which he showed the various operations of the Corn-
laws on the interests, comforts, and independence of the
labouring population, whi2,ll form so large and important
a part of the agricultural body, and who have such great
and pressing claims, on our sympathy and protection.
Lord NUGENT seconded the motion, which was
agreed to unanimously.
Mr. STURGE moved—" That this meeting adjourn,
subject to the call of the Manchester Anti-Corn-law
Association. That it be left to its discretion at what
time to bring the substantive question, for the total
abolition of the Corn-laws before Parliament, and to
adopt any other measures to secure the great objects
of the Association which they may think fit."
The motion was agreed to.
Dr. BOWRING moved a vote of thanks to the Chair-
man, which was carried by acclamation.

. .
The CHAIRMAN briefly retu:ned thanks, after which
he meeting adjourned.

NORTHERN AND EASTERN RAIL-

WAY COMPANY.

A General Meeting of this Company took place yes.
terday at the London Tavern, HENRY WARD, Esq.
M. P., in the Chair.

From the Report, it appeared that the Directors had
abandoned all idea of proceeding further than Bishop-
stortford, and they intended to apply to Parliament to
authorise a deviation from the original line, and to
enable the Company to join the Eastern Counties
Railway. The works were proceeding in a most pros-
perous manner, and there was every prospect of their
completion, at the furthest, in 1841. From different
calculations, it appeared that a net revenue of 84,000/.
a-year might be expected from the railway, which, upon
the estimated expenditure of 480,000/., would leave an
interest of 171 per cent.
The adoption of the Report was unanimously agreed
to, and thanks were voted to the Directors.