The Sun.
London, England, 1839-03-05 00:00:00

tendents of Dock-yards, which had been subsequntly received.
it had PPeen stated there were no masts in store for the Re-

ace Gentleman here read a letter, showing
there were store, rid several fit and ready to be put
iri, if required.)—NoW 174,04 to Plymouth Yard, it had
been said there were no topsails in ettet parry, without which a
ship could not go sea. He had written tetlilesirperinteudent
to know whether Lord Hardwicke could by any pdiAbtlity have
a, mistake, and what number of sails there were. Let-et
Hir&irkte bed stated there were no topsails for a ship
of the tide, Wit'eti the fit was that there no less than 66. Lord
Hardwieke also stated tfie're were no complete sets of sails.

There were complete sets for foreign eereic for these first-rates
—one seicosid, and three third rates, making together 7 sail of the
line, end 6 large frigates. He was aware that these statements
would be enct by thias.eertion that the returns were false re-
turns. —( Hear.) That was a gerrve and serious charge to be made
against such persons as would be implicated in it, and he would
put it to those who had any experience in the office with which
hie Was connected, whether the individuals who made those
feturns were likely to be guilty of such conduct.—(Hear.) Did
any man believe that the store-keepers of the yards,
old and tried pubic eereants, with the certainty of detection
9ttirin.¢ them in the face, would make a false return ?—( Hear,
•hear. ) Wored the superintendents of those yards, men of
high rank and long service—such as Admiral .Bouverie and
Atim,ral Warren—would they make, or ..are to make, false re-
turns ?—( Hear, hear.) The store-keeper-general of the Navy,
as honostrable a man as existed in the world, and of as high
character, would he make a false return ? He was quite sure
that if the Noble Lord reflected for a momrnt, he would at once
have retracted the charge; and he wonld ask whether a cur-
sory inspection. of the dock-yard was to be relied upon
more than an official return. He had thought it neces-
sary to call the attention of the Committee to this
subject, because a Noble Lord, a most honourable man, perfectly
incapable of stating that which he die not believe to be true,
had gone down to the Dock-yard for the express purpose of as-
certaining the state of the stores. That Noble Noble Lord
communicated with the Superintendent, an old shipmate of his
own) he conducted him round the Yard, showing him every-
thing, mid yet with the best possible means of obtaining the
most acctitate information, those were the statements that had
been thought necessary to hold forth to the public.—(Cheers )
The public, he admitted, had a right to rely on such testimony.
They had not the means which persons in office had of ascer-
taining the truth ; but he had shown that that testimony
was not only erroneous, but was totally contrary to the fact.
With regard to the stores, he could state, on the authority of
the Storekeeper-General, who had been ten or twelve years in
the office, that since he had any knowledge of the subject, the
stores of the Navy had never been in so efficient a state as they
were at present.—(Hear.) With regard to the unconverted
stores, he would simply observe there had been a large increase
in timber, hemp,.and so on. He now came to the next head of
estimates—the new works of the yard. Upon this head he must
say he did not think sufficient had been paid to it since the
peace, especially looking to the great exertion and great
expenditure that had been made by the French for this purpose
in their yaede. Last year the entrance to some of the works at
Woolwich, which lie was sorry to say had been postponed for
some time, had been completed. Chatham had also been greatly
neglected. At Portsmouth many attempts to fasten up the sea
walls had been made, and heavy expunges were incurred to re-
pair the slips. The same might be said of Plymouth. It was
necessary to make extensive repairs in one of the slips, and the
sea walls would be so repaired as eventually to form a
portion of the construction of that which had been wanted
Inc years at Plymouth—vie., a basin, with a dock
Then with regard to the introduction of machinery into the
yards, he had no doubt that a restriction bad been put upon the
introduction of machinery from a desire not to discharge work-
men, but it was impossible to go into a private establishment
without being ashamed at the state of our dock yards. In a
great many instances a saving of expence had been effected by
the introduction of machinery. A vote would be required this
year for the introduction of hand-bellows into the' smithies by
which a saving cf not less than 1,0001. a-year for labour
would be made. He hail now gone through those heads of
estimates, on which the efficiency of the Navy mainly depended,
and he thought he heal shewn that the Government had not
neglected their duty in any way. He had stated what
they had done, and he had stated the condition in
which they had left it—a condition, he did •ot hesitate to say,
unparalleled in the time of peace. Ile weuld only advert for a
moment to the Estimates for Victualling, in which there
was an increase arising from circumetences over which
they had no controul—an increase in the price of pro-
of the visions, and another item for the re-establishment
Royal Naval College. The old College was put down
two or three years ago, it being the opinion that it
did not answer any useful end. There was a complaint against
it, and when the present Government came in they found there
were forty vacancies, but no candidate came forward.
For these reasons, then, the old system of the Naval College
was put an end to ; but immediately upon that, an improved
system of education was introduced, giving schoolmasters higher
pay and higher rank in the ship. Twelve were now actually
afloat, other three were in a forward state of preparation, and
soon they would have an adequate number on the books to in-
struct the whole of the young gentlemen in the Navy.—
(Cheers.) The new College, established in the Excellent,
under Captain Hassiegs, was proceeding most setisfactorily,
and commissions were given to Mates who passed their exa-
minations with credit. By giving that education at a time
when the young men were able to appi eciate it, it would
tend very greatly to increase the attainments of the Officers
of the Navy. In speaking of former Administrations, he
had not wished to give any offence. Under the administra-
tion of the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir. J. Graham) great and
most beneficial reforms were carried into effece—( Hear, hear.)
The putting down the subordinate .Board was a measure of
much importance. The institution of the Excellent was a
most beneficial measure—he put an end to the absurd system of
stores.—( Cheers. ) In one matter alone he differed from the
Right Hon. Gentleman ; he had lowered the pitch of works to
too low a scale, as was found when they came into office. The
abuse which had been showered down upon them during the
last six .months almost passed the limits of human endu-
rance.—( Hear, hear, and cheers.) He had shown them to
whom the blame attached, to those whose partisans blamed
the present Government. The Government might be open to
the attacks of the Hon. Member for Kilkenny, but not to those
which had been lavished upon them by the organs of the party
to which the Gentlemen opposite belonged. In their first es-
timate they increased the force of the Navy—they had very
greatly increased the stores—one matter they had no controul
over—the prices of many articles had been enhanced. With
regard to the recommendation of a Committee of that House
the Honourable Gentlemen opposite, as soon as they came into
office, found that it was nearly impossible to go on with-
out a large promotion. Accordingly one took place, and
another almost as a matter of course took place at the
Coronation of her Majesty, and the beneficial effect of such
p-omotion had already been proved. With respect to the
Marine force, they had removed- every officer who was unfit
for duty, and the effect was that in twelve months there
were snore promotions in that force than in any other.
They had reduced the emoluments of pursers in large ships and
increased those in small ships. They had done the
same by the assistant-surgeons—they had classed the warrant
and petty officers, and many other measures were contemplated
by the Admiralty, when they were stopped by the in-
terference of that House, which resulted in the appoint-
ment of a Commission. They had increased the number of
line of battle ships nearly double. When these statements
were going their rounds, they had surprised Amerita by show-
ing her seven ships of the line on her coast, when it was repro
suited that we were without any.—(Loud cheering.)
They had abundance of stores in, their arsenals, and suffi-
cient of good materinls. They had created large works at
Woolwich, at Deptford, at Portsmouth, and at Ply-
mouth, the whole under the controul of an able and
efficient officer of engineers. He had trespassed too long upon
their attention.—(Loud cheers.) He had entered into great
detail, but when the House recollected the abuse to which they
had been subjected—(Cheers)—they would not think that he
had trespassed needlessly.--(Cheers.) It was necessary
for him to show to the country, that our Navy was not in that
helpless and inefficient state it was represented to be.—
(Cheers.) He was not sorry that the question had been
brought forward—the Government had suffered much obloquy,
but when all was known he was' not afraid of the judgment of the
country. Ile felt quite sure that impartial justice would be done.
They had this satisfaction from the expression of public opinion,
which had been general, that in what they had been doing
since they came into office, they had not been following but
anticipating the wants of the service.—( Cheers.) He moved
that 34,165 men be granted for the service of the Navy. The
Hon. Member resumed his seat amidst loud and continued
cheering.

Sir E. CODRINGTON said, after the very able speech
which they had just heard, he hoped the House would adjourn
in order to allow time for the proper consideration of the
matter. He could not move the adjournment without express-
ing not only his admiration of the manner in which the motion
had been brought forward, but of the extent of the information
which had been afforded.—( Cheers. )
Mr. C. WOOD did not wish to offer any opposition to the
motion, but said that it was of the greatest importance that
the House should come to a vote on the subject. He should
therefore ask leave to sit again on Wednesday, in order to
go on with the discussion, an early termination of which would
be of advantage to the public service.
Sir GEORGE CLERK thought he should be able to show
a great fallacy in the arguments of the Hon. Gentleman.
Although he must express his admiration at the able and
distinct manner in which he had gone over the various topics
to which he had alluded ; he entreated the Committee not to
carry away the idea that he had completely proved the Navy of
this country to be in the state which it ought to be.
The CHAIRMAN then reported progress, and obtained
leave to sit again on W ednesday
The Designs Copyright Bill, and the Designs Copyright
Extension Bill, were read a second time, and ordered to be
committed.
The other Orders of the Day having been d:sposed of, the
House adjourned at Half-past Twelve.