The Sun.
London, England, 1808-01-23 00:00:00

from Yorkshire had not proceeded from any party
feelings, it was the more entitled to 'attention.' Mi.,
nisto's consit!er the cliaraEter which the wiir
was now take, as well Ili the 'sacrifices to this
country'and to Europe that .world result from it.
and then take care-that those privations should not
be longer continued than was absolutely indispensa-
ble. As to • Negociation, be believed this country j
.bad come, out: of. the last With as much honour as
out.Of any Negociation since the cemtnencement of
its history. He thought that peace was necessary
in order that something should be done for Ireland,
that wouid'make that country the stay and the sup-
port of the Empire. He entered his protest against
any approbation of the Expedition against Denmark,
and besought Ministers not to neglect any opportti-
nity of making peace.
Mr. M. A. TAYLOR should take another oppor-
tunity of stating, his sentiments on the Danish Ex-
pedition, and should content himself with stating
them' in passing, that as an Englishman he feltdis-
graced by it. File had risen only to state • what he
knel,v of the proceeding in. Yorkshire.. He had been
.applied to by very respeetable delegates from that
county 'to become the Chair of their Meeting, but
-had declined, and endeavoured to. dissuade them
from their purpose of petitioning for peace. He as-
snred -them that such a proceeding would dOOO
good, and might embarrass Government' Mille' Ile.
gociation which he supposed yvAs then carrying on.
T o his argements they had replied, that they were
&varying, net only from the effeels of the war, but of
the late Orders of Council,- He advised them, in-
- stead of petitioning againit the war and the Orders
- of Council, to petition tor the removal of the King's
11,linisters. He. repeated that he had given this ad-
vice, and he contended that there were men to be
foetid in that House, who would condu& the Whirs
'of the 'catintry with greater' honour and More pros-
pect of peace than the present Ministers.
Arr.rEbpr did not mean to oppose the Report of
the Address,' because it had been 'agreed by' the
Gentlemen who had spoken in the debate, to sus-
peed any opinion.upon the topics upon' which a dif-
terepee existed, for the present. He rose merely for
the purpose of ,asking fur an explanation from Mi;•
ntsterS upon one point in the Speech, Which, ac-
cording to his construelion of it, appeared utterly
irreconcileable with truth. They had been told,
that, as soon as the Treaty 'of Tilsit had been signed,
his Majesty bad . been apprized of the design of the
Enemy to employ the Danish Fleet against, this
country, and the Speech added, that it theft became
the duty of his Majesty to place, that Fleet out of
the reach of ,the Enemy. The Treaty of Tilsit had
been Signed' on the 7th of July, and it was not till
the 801 of August that the intelligence of that event
had..reached thitt couptry. Adttiral Gainbier sailed
from England on the-26th July, and what he wish-
ed to be informed .of • was, whether Ministers had
received the intelligeace of the Treaty of Tilsit in
sufficient time to allow of the necessary delay in
moving troops to 'the coast, providing transports,
em.barking? &o. previous to the sailing of the Ex-
pedition; Alm' he ibelieved to be impossible ; the
Speech from the Throne wits not to be discussed in;
that Haase alone, it would go forth to .Europe, and
be combated paragraph byperagraPb, by men who
would not want dexterity in examining its contents,
'and it was therefore the more necessary to corral
the anachronism, and 'not send the Speech forth
with its own refutatiOn. In philosophy, the' cause
r• precedes the ,effeet, here- the etre& preceded the
:'cause. He desired to know, therefore, 'whether
Ministers had information of the Secret Articles of
the.'freaty of Tilsit previous to the sailing of the
Expedition, or. whether .their information: .telated
slo any engagements entered into preVioua, tra the
'-s.voitpao that Trealy r
Air. HER would be disposed, in times
like the present, when Europe was combined
601114 Ahis country, to support ihe'existing GoVern-
,. inept. But though he should pot oppose the Ad-
dress, ITT/mild not give any pledge of his approba-
troo of the measures to: Which it . related, 'Hi:.
.thought -that, this country held a high ground, and
•wasentitled to treat upon terms of perfea equality,
'with' its' ctiiiibitted EneMies; but he lamented that
-the Speech 'from the Throne had not held out any
-litiasped (+Peace. '
...Mr.YORKE.- had intended to say but a feW words
on theresenk occSsidni bat from the turn which the
hich had br

papers, than from any.other canse. This he would
I,sset.t without reference to any set of men.
- . isfullitis addict liOare in verbs Maiiitri.
He was old enough to reuiember_the Ametican war,
and he could state front- opportu4ties which he had
of persooally know'ing the'laft;lhat in *consequence
of the production of the papers relative to the
'sailing of the Toulon Fleet, on the motion of a Gen-
- tleman---ofverrhigh talents7.(Mr: Fox,)•TVOIV no
more, the French had been enabled to cut off a
source of intelligence which this country had pos-
sessed in. Holland since thew reign of Queen Anne.
Was there not enough on the ' face, of such papers,
1 to enable the Enemy to trace.the source whence they
might have been received ? He would give credit to
Government for having received the intelligence. Ott
that fact he would rest his foot, and give his appro-
bation to the measure. The next Was as to/the po-
licy of ailing upon such intelligence. - As to the
collusion of Denmark, he must confess, that as an
Englishman he thought and left, that the Danish
Government (fur he would not speak with itlisre-
speet of the Prince so nearly connected with our
Royal FaMily) had acted with ' collusion. ,it must
not be forgotten, that before force was employed an
i alternative had been given to the Danish Govern-
i ment, and when that alternative was reje6ted, he
thought we were right in employing force to secure
the fleet. This conduct was justifiable on the first .
; prieciple of human nature, self preservation. As.
to the abstract principles of right which had been
1 so much dwelt on, he respected them as much as
any Member of that House, brit in our' respect for
,them. We should not suffer ourselves to become the
Victims of abstraet principles of wrong. This coun-
try' had ever concluded itself with honour, according
to the purest principles of righti, and he trusted. it
would ever do so. Uoder this feeling 'ho thought
_the measure wise; he rejoiced at its success, and
heartily approved of the Address. With regard .to
the dates which had beet' adverted. to, Gentle-
men seemed to draw their , whole argument
from the rapidity with which the Expedition
bad been fitted out and dispatched, a rapidity which
they had not been lately accustomed to witness :
And if the Crown Prince,- or rather (for Ministers
often govern Princes and Kings); if the Bernstorirs,.,
whose share m the administration of the affairs of
Denmark was well known, had formed their esti-
mate of the 'Expedition, from the speciniens they
had lately seen, they could not have suspe6ted that
Zealand would have been so soon surrounded.
They therefore thought it necessary to keep: their ,
Arr(ly in Holstein to keep up appearances, Gen-
tlemen had argued on this subject, as if orders had
been given to fall instantly on Denmark. But was
there 'hot a N•;gociatiOn to prevent their Fleet from
falling into the hands of the gnetny. If th© 'Da-ii
nish Army could not have resisted the French, I
had they pot been offered the Bid of nearly 40,00 a
men, who composed the Expedition, ler their
'defence
? If he was a Dane, be would, feeling for
the honour of his country, most readily consent to
give up' the Fleet to the English, the kinsmen of
his countrymen. As to the question of Peace, he
felt that to be.involved in difficulty and delicacy.--.--
He bad supported the Peace of Amiens, as.an,ex-
periment ; yet as the experiment had been made, lie,
was not. disposed to repeat it. Whi4t Buonaparte
continued at ' the head of the French nation, and
should continue to govern by military measures, the
.
monierll We should make peace with hiro, from that
moinent. oar dangers would begin. He trusted,
,howeve,r,:that Ministers would not rejed any offer
td negociate, though the late. negociation proved
.how difficult ic would be 'to bring the French Go.
vernotent to any fair peace. This Country should
,negociate upon terms ofstri6t equality, aisd that the
point of honour should never be given up. He,
could-not but deprecate those Petitions that were
coming up, and he hoped the Hon. Gentlemen op-
posite would do' every thing in their power to dis-
courage them, as they could' clone good, and might
do. harm, by 'throwing difficulties
,in the way of
their vrofessed objeEt. If we were to negociate we
should do it upon terms of equality, and. if peace was
to be made we should maintain . our situation of
~
with
equality France. .
/Ur. WIND HA 111 concurred with the :Right
Hon. Gentleman' who' had jest spoken, in deprecat-
ing those Petitions to which he had alluded. :He
.agreed with him, that they could do no-goed,

tufficiently attended to the force of national da-
-1 ratter, when they sacrificed the reputation of the
Country by their conduct to Denmark. As to
what the Right Hun. Gentleman had said, that there
may be many cases in which the evidence could not
be produced, he admitted there might be such cases)
but then the question was, whether they should be
a&ed upon ? From the manner in which the argue
men t-drawn .frtwt-the'dates Ives'lnet,-it might be in-
ferred, that the EipeditiOn had been prepaYed fur
another object. As `if Ministers hail not prepared
the -expedition•fer the objet; :but provided an °hie&
for the Expedition. They' had got the money and
it must be spent. They hadColleotecl the troops and-
transports, and then they thOught. they must per-
form an adt of violin When the Expedition had...
performed its office, it was tithe eiseugh to pick out
of the Treaty of Tilsit a ground for hiving dispatch-
' edit against an unoffending 'Neutral. He had been ,
led farther than he intended, The'soleabjea of hit
rising was to reprobate the corrupt dootrines of vena-
lity which had been broached on this occasion,--1-10
was sorry to find those doctrines receive the sane.
tiowthey .did from the very respectable authority
of the Right Hon. Gentleman wise preceded-
beim° be was convinced that they would, if
adolited and ailed upon, lead to the ruin of this
country, .
-44 t r. lONTelGtfg enlarged on the propriety of
keeping stria silence in matters of state secrecy. 11
any disclosure should bring the person who gave the
intiinnation into jeopardy, there would be au end of
all sirnilarintelligence.
Mr. 1111L4JAM SMITH (of Norwich), after
tanchiug lightly on the Copenhagen business,Com•
mended the conclua of the Noble Lord who was
Mern4er for Yorkshire, in discountenencing Petition-I;
for Peace. He would. have acted in the same manner'
if a Petition had beet' proposed in the city he had
the honour to represent, though the interests of the
inhabitants of that city suffered as much as the in-
wrests of any other part of the community by di°
continuance of the War. This he would do, in the
confidence that His Majesty's Ministers would omit
no opportunity to restore Peace : if he should find that
any fair opportunity was negleeted, then he would
encourage the Petitions, with a view to compel Mt'
nisters to negotiate.
Mr. Secretary CA N 1111.11,0 said,. that though the
regular Copy of the Treaty of Tilsit had not reached
this Country till the Bth of. August, the substance
' of that Treaty; and of the secret arrangements, had
beeeu received by Government long before. Tiw
Note in-
which the mediation of Russia was offered
was received o\ri the tst of August, • and answered on
odor 3d. 4t.wasupon this first substantial communicm
tion the Expedition to Copenlingen was. undertaken,
The arguments of the Right Hon. Gentleman (MV
Windhem) from dates, were therefore wholly in'
applicable. The precise secret articles, if Minister
knew them, may be communicated without mischief,
.-43ut all that 'was known 'was the substance:.
and 'that was known:very early. To disclose this
would be to.betray the source from which it was de-
rived.. As to the speed used in the preparation of
the armament, neither was that a proof of a deter'
initiation prior to the arrangements of Tilsit. part
of the force that formed, the Expeditiori had been.
already at Stralsund-, another part was embarked at
home for a different destination., It was only neces
sary to change that destination, and to make WO
increase. The increase was rapid and considerabilas
.but that proved the degree of exertion, and not the
length of time that the design had been forint d.
WHI7'BIOI4IP, 'did not suppose it pessibla
that any secret arrangements:could have beeti formed
between France and Rustle prior to the forinsl cons
elusion of the Treaty of. Tilsit, As •well might it
be said, that time Were, such arrangements prior
to the battle of!Vr.4;lland.. Tile Right Hon.Gentle4
mm admitted Oat no ibj,ary meld be 'done to any
one by disclosing tin! Articles, if his Majesty's Minn
_stern had the Articles. Crt.iiirly then none coal'',
be done by dicloiing, the subs ince, further than
whet was done by stating that they. had the stl!)
stance. If they would- give only the information
`they baa given, he must find himself compelled to
believe they had no more. The Right Hon. Gentle'
man opposite (Mr:Yorke) contended;-that mischief
might arise from di :Closure. He contended that much
more mischiefirldpeeu done for the last fifteen ears
b- hhold: ide no

debate'i'dok; `and the opinions w.. . nay Jun ex.- 'an might
u h harm, by embarrassiog any _ y wit. ing information. Beonaparte lea,.. . _
hesitation of disclosing every
' -(1 do in 4
pressed. concerning the Negocietion at Tilsit, and i negociation that might e. en ,t) tered into. -Ile ,
his Neeotiatiens nor his Wars Were
particularly by his Right Lion, Driencould
- (Vol osite tM edit
si - • Iles
k p se r' inbT -be
a - But though lye concurred . cessful'3by his event of reserve: -On sae prmell ~
Beavers°, last nighteseseinione which he was sur- ! 'rule for a negotiation.
this point,h ' avowed by the Right Min. Getilletnati oppaiite, "
prised to hear trom that (et:trier—he had felt, it .his 1 with, tke Right Hon. Gentleman in
Tie
was iiiipces:ble any Negotiation with him could sac"
duty to state his sentineeste on this eubjea. His {would go a little further than him in another. The thing,
rtietiliddeyreedt nateli.tsuitec;
'Majesty's Ministers bad declared, that, shortly after . Right Hon. Gentleman had said that he setu not I ceed. On such principles, it he was invited to ne, '
41
g
the NegOeletietei tools Piece at Tilsit, his Majesty ! give up the poiut of honour. Now
.the point of ' gotiate with the Ri ht Hun. Gentleman, he would:
heel been apprized of the inteetion ot the k
henry.
to 1 , honour was out of the question, give hart safety and. .
.decline enterieg into a discussion which muit '.ead to
turn Ale Danish and Portuguese Fleets -against this "he would be satiSfied, nothing but exasperation. He
he Petie
country, rand that then 'it beciune the first duty of I
" tlive us klud.dulness, memory and rhyme..- '
did not disai)Pr'w°
• of the Yeti 'eels for Peace. The Weed of t. „
. his Nlajesty, as Proteaot of his. Kingdom, to pre- \
4, WA put °Weenies to another time. , ' tie nets was net to impress the neeessity. of Peec4 °!'
any terms, but te impress the propriety e,► it,
•f.i dlspostr
,
• , • •
vent those Navies train being employed to a d the ; He knew pf notlung in this, case in which honour s.
tion to embrace the first favourable opeenun ei,
designs of the Enemy. His- Majesty lied told them I was concerned. As to what had been stated with .
to ob ain an equitable peace. Fice hoped, Il:relnr
that htt;haii been apprized of 'suele-intentione ut the
etietliy e an& what were 'they to do, but, as :they
proveel of, his measures, to assure his Majesty that
1 respea to the morality of the measure, that`he con.
aPe i siclered the most alarming feature of 'the pre- ;
sent times e and highly, as the, measure muse its his , that Petitions would be multinlicd, in order to NO"
pel Ministers to a disposition,' more, conciliatorr,y.'
they , participated, in his regret that •hostility- ; opinion atfea the reputation and charaaer of the ,
country, his did not look upon that etreet ai either i
; Objeetiona ,of etiquette. Be held his" Maiest)',
than that, which starts horn Neeceation for me.:
latest him ~ on. the success with which. that 1 Ministers pledgedt in justification of the.E7iP-e
i 'so forinislable or importent as the doetrituie that ha,,l
hostility had been attended. It had been said, .
been broached upon this occasion : they formed at, tiOn to Copenhagen, to make out the existence
a Confederacy ,hostile to Britidn, rior to the formal
that stAcient grounds had-; not been stand to i kind of epoch in the public morality ot the nation. ,
conclusionf of the reap of Lett,
T T., • anti he did not ic4.
justify the' measure e but he would .fiSic any man We were now adopting what
.we had beeit so loitg
• now that could be math! out. In order to pro,c!,
acquainted with public business, whether the nature ! deprecating, .rind had only to justity,ourselves, like :
of eueGovernment was nut such, that the Govern- : the man in the French Comedy, bysaying, ~ All .
.thi.eii ability todelend Denmark against France, fits
merit could
.not preeeed it it did not often ad upon `. is now changed ;" " rirtutem verta." There .
majesty s Minieters ought at least to have kept 17° e.
grounds whichscbuld not, consistently with the rote- .
could be no doubt that a departure from morality in session of Zealand for tee winter. He wds
. other sit
? Upon this , rests ofthe country, 'be- made public
' d lie woeld"give fits confidence to Geeerement, ; i grout)t (Mr. Yorke) had been a Dane at Copenhagen, ,we .were to say that the maxims of right were: in the r' • to gi' `••
' f whom it might be ; - • very fine, things, but that we might iv ,
1 without regard-to the persons 0. abstraa , s g eshem •
would here been so far from, beingdisposed
_so
i compcised. 'He would give -his confidence to the up as our occasions may reqiiire, that doariiie would the Danish Fleet in the Manner ii st,hich it "'et
tiP
h.. Id .t I en iven _up a L'i
Lite Goveriimeot on that score, though it was known !he the most fatal symptom of our condition ;it asked, that e wou no ieve es g
that he had not been in the habit of concurring in I would be • the most dreadful of all revolutions.— i of old junk. '
ordered'
' theft measures, if they made his
I Majesty declare in ;
' As the Hon. Gentleman, whom he hoped to hear isure . ,0
'The Address was read and agreed to, and . as
bers e
Is fix the '
I his Speech, that he had. sufficient groull • often in that House (Mr. den had •justly observed, ' to be resented to his Majesty by such Mein
measures
.they might adopt. Did not every man of : • the doctrines here precede the fact.: Peole may be : P Privy Council. are of the_
__ e id tithe
COMMOI) sense know, that measures ot war were ot- driven from their resolutions, 'but the{ case is not It was then ordered. , . that the House steel . si,
ten t;ities,7l.silieteno'ittforination could be divulged hopeless till their principles become as corrupt as d - -ion on 'A?'"
his Majesty's Speech Into coast eta .,
.
or was even rt•ceived to justify them ?' The diet- their practice. He should hope that a habit and prin- ,till 11onday. next.—Adjourned s
Ilwilfy of procuring inteltigence in the presenft in- : cieje had taken such deep root in this country, that i '
" ;ince, reuderest it still mese heeessary not to ex e , we slionid now but clumsily seta bout these nnpr in-
rpcie those sources which yet remained to ne. He ciplet.l ads. We should proceed in our good old Aukivia-i Dublin.
i was tonstientiottkiy of opinion, that MOTO inconve- course, and if we are to die, let us perish with our ,
• • .
inience had arise, to this country from- improvident honour. If the Country is to die, let us not try to i CL
grants of inforrnati,ffl, mid from the Government hold out to the last, .by resorting to every course of
_I A', 1 being so urgently pressed for the ,production V
~foil, iniquity, and wickedness. Ministers hadnot . c"1.44' e •
.

MAILS.
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