The Sun.
London, England, 1837-02-16 00:00:00

FINSBURY 1-IE-FORM DINNER.

A public dinner was yesterday given to Thomas \Val(ley,
Esq., in the groat assembly roord of the White Conduit Ta-
vern, in-ceiebratton of' the victory gained for the cause of re-
form by-the retnrifof that gentleman to Parliament as Mem-
ber for tbe—Metrepolitari• District of Finsbury. The dinner
was appointed- to. take place at five o'clock precisely, but con-
Sidi:rabic Was oceasicined by the non.arrival of Mr. Wak-
ley, A CoMMobication was at length received from that gen-
tleman, statin# thct he was at present confined to his bed very
but Ite hoped to be able to make his personal steknowle4-
.
eats to hi; ftiends lU:the course of the evening. A letter,
howeveri,' WaS'ifterwards received from Dr. Arnott, stating
that Mr. -117nkley was so seriously indisposed as to be wholly
tillable to lcmie his room. Six o'clock having arrived, J. T.
Leader,-Eiq.', M. P:, the Chairman, accompanied by D. O'Con-
Esq:,'N/1.P., • Colonel Thompson, M.P., Joseph Hume,
E'sq., M. P., J. A. Roebuck, Esq., M.P., J. M. O'Connell,
tiq., M.P., Christopher Fitsimon, Esq., M. P., D. W. Har-
vey, Esq., NI.P., James Kennedy, Esq., late Member for
Tiverton, then entered the room, when upwards of 500 per-
sons sat down to a most excellent dinner.
On the cloth being removed,

The ClimaMex rose and said—The first toast I have to
propose is " The King—his rights, and no more."—( Cheers. )
The CIIAIRMA'N-I have now to propose a toast to which
you cannot do too much honour—" The People—their rights,
and no less."—(Tremendous cheers. )
The toast having been drunk with applause,

The Custiesinethen gave " The health of the Princess
Victoria," which was drunk with much enthusiasm. A kw
hisses were, however, heard to mingle with the cheers.
The CHAIRMAN then informed the company that he had just
received a letter from Dr. Arnett, stating that Mr. Wakley
was in such a state of fever and inflammation that it would be
in the highest degree imprudent, indeed dangerous, for him to
leave his house. In his absence, therefore, which he very
much regretted, he had to propose to the company the health,
and the better health, of Mr. Wakley.—( Cheers.) The toast
was drunk with every demonstration of respect.
Mr. HUME then passed a high eulog,ium on the talent and
political integrity of Mr. Wakley.
Dr. Errs proposed not only the health of Mr. Flume, but of
all the other Radical Representatives in the House of Com-
mons.—(Loud cheers.)
Drunk-with great enthusiasm.
Mr. Hume, in rising to return thanks, was received with
much cheering. At no time since he had been in Parliament
were greater efforts necessary to overcome the enemies of the
people's rights. The struggle was a very simple and intel-
ligible one—it was, whether the aristocracy or the democracy
should prevail in ruling this country.—( Loud cheers.) Too
long, indeed, had the few ruled for their own benefit and ad-
vantage ; and it was now for the people to consider whether,
as freemen and Englishmen, they would any longer submit to
that domination, or whether they would strive to obtain that
influence which the people ought to have in their own House
of Commons to conduct the affairs of the nation for the inte-
rest of the many and not for the few.—(Cheers.) All his
efforts had had that object, and that alone, in view, for be had
never swerved to the right or to the left to support Whig or
Tory, unless he saw that good was to come to the public by
that means.—(Cheers.) As to individual interest, he had
never to his knowledge allowed a single vote of his to be in-
fluenced by it. He rejoiced in the progress which, as Refer-
Users, they had been able to make ; but, as long as there
Were rights to be obtained, or abuses to be corrected, he
felt that it was not right that they should relax in
their exertions. The parties were, unfortunately, very
nearly balanced—the Tory influence, backed as it was said by
the Court, supported by a large proportion of the landed and
other interests, with the magistracy and a great portion of
persons in authority giving it their aid, the crisis was unques-
tionably one of great moment. The people must, therefore,
act for themselves. As a Radical Reformer, he could assure
them that this session must be the touch-stone as to what the
House of Commons was composed of. The people had been
deluded for years past ; they had allowed foreign influence to
prevail, and they had allowed themselves to pursue phantoms
and support abuses which, if they had properly understood,
tney would not for a moment have tolerated. They were
'now better informed, and all that was necessary was union.
There were different opinions as to the best mode of obtaining
the objects they all desired; but that appeared to him to be the
best which was likely to be the most successful ; and he con-
ceived that to be the most likely to be successful which would
maintain liberal men in power. From them the people might
get something, but from the. Tories they never could get any-
thing. The choice, therefore, which he had made, and the
determination to which he had come was, that he would
support the present Ministers by every means in his
power, as long as they went the right way.—(Cheers.)
If they would not support popular measures, then it would
become the duty of those Members who were independent
both of Whig and Tory to state to the country their real
situation, and rely upon the people to support them in the
popular, measures which they advocated.—( Cheers.) His
friend Mr. O'Connell would inform them of the vast import-
ance it was to Ireland that a liberal Government should be
continued in power. He was aware that among the advocates
of Reform there were many who, though not more anxious,
were somewhat more ardent to obtain the desired results. He
hoped, however, that Reformers of all grades would ever be
found. to join together as against the common enemy, and be
firmly attached to those principles on which, after all, the in-
terests of the country mainly depended. The Hon. Gentleman
then enumerated the various measures about to be brought
befOre the Hotise of Commons by the Radical Reformers dur-
ing the present Session—such'as the repeal of the rate-paying
clauses In the Reform Act, the extension of the suffrage, the
vote by ballot, the shortening the duration of Parliaments, and
the repeal of the tax on the newspaper press. To all these
Measures he would give his most cordial support. There
was one other question which he deemed to be of vital im. ,
portance to the cause of freedom,—he meant the placing of
every man, whatever his religious creed might be, on perfect
equality with regard to his civil rights; and he hoped
that the measure now in progress in the House of Com-
Mons would remove from the Dissenter those disabilities
Under which he still laboured, so that we might be all brought
to an equality as to civil and religious rights, not only in name
but in reality.—(Cheers.) Since his introduction into public
bad an opportunity of seeing the impossibility of proceeding
BO rapidly as they could wish. The time, however, he hoped
was approaching when greater progress might be made. He
had the utmost confidence in the good sense and perseverance
of the people of this country, and he felt that on the success
of the cause of freedom hero depended the extension of that
cause throughout the civilised world. When he looked back
ito 1819, when he proposed the abolition of the Church Estab-
lishment in Ireland, he was astonished at the progress they
bad made in the cause of Reform. At that time he was
looked upon as a wild beast—( Laughter)—and he believed
that if he had gone to a division he should not have obtained
six votes. Ought not the progress that they had made in the
course of eighteen years to be of great encouragement to
every Reformer to proceed? But it was to men of principle
they must look, not to the Whig or Tory—to men who were
anxious and determined to support the cause of the people—
tos such men, in fact, as your honourable representative, Mr.
Wakleye_(Loud cheers.)
Mr. D. W. HARVEY rose, and was received with very great
cilleering. He said—Gentlemen, I will not conceal that I
nesitated to accept the invitation to be present upon this in-
teresting occasion ; but I could not suffer my feelings to be
misinterpreted by my absence, because some of you will re-
member that—when I had the honour to be here on a recent
clecasion, in the presence of your valuable Representative,
Whose absence no one, and its cause, deplores more than
myself—in the exercise of that freedom of opinion, cherished
as I found it, and as I thought it would be, when confidently
,rexprested before freemen—there was, I will not say an us-
Bapliy, but an undesirable difference of opinion ; and I felt
therefore some disinclination, on the one hand, to be present
here to-day, in the apprehension that the fearless expression of
my sentiments might lead to a similar result ; while on the
other hand, it might be open unfairly to the interpretation
that I felt what I did not feel, otherwise than the most kindly
feelings towards your most valued Representative.—(Loud
"eel's.) The Honourable Member continued to say that he
Would not deny, however, that the speech which he had just
beard from his Honourable Friend had stirred up some-
thing of those recollections and feelings in spite of him.
self which had burst forth on the former occasion. He was
well aware that there was not to be found in any part
of his Majesty's dominions a gentleman better disposed to pur-
sue that course of policy which he honestly believed best cal-
culated to advance the great object and principle of Reform.
But
in one respect, and it was an important one, hesdiffered
llorn that Hon. Gentleman. He seemed to think that the
disturbance' of the present Government, and the pursuit of
,those measures which it was the interest of that Government
t 0 promote, would be of all events the greatest possible cala-
Lay. He (Mr. Harvey) should think so too, if they deserved,
re their measures, to be in power.—( Hear, hear.) But the
al question which the people had to determine was, not, as
the
• "on.• Member had said, whether the Whig or the Tory
ass the object of their preference or the object of their con-
tr__l4, but whether the principles which either preferred were
,o"__se calculated to promote the speedy attainment of good
4.ltlvie"nment. or whether they were such as would require an-
_ Were r
generation to carry into effect ; whether, in fact, they
, to live in hopes that what their great-grandfathers had not
enjoyed their great-grandchildren might ? It had ever been the
effort of party to inculcate the mystery of government, and under
the general impression, ton prevalent with the people, that it
v.: mystery, the latter had been more inclined to listen to
tyetVons and receive concessions from the Government,
pro-
posed act as they ought to do. What was the course
for Reformers to take? The apparent plan was (for,
Personally, he was ignorant of it), they had heard, indeed,
thatesome '
interior, mysterious, quietly, secretly-moving party,
tar 14ey respectable for its selections, had arranged—that a cer-
.‘,,:ser
tries of measures were to be brought forward one night
and he other, and that there were to be some one hundred
fiftysincerity,
or some one hundred Members present to show their
Y. and to give an opportunity to some of them to speak,
3topesaottn.
e to vote, and some to remain away, neither to; vote nor
the and then what was to be the finale of all this? Take
veluablejee of
all night. That was the first of a series of
H
to Is'ar°Positions—a no-qualification proposition—and he
Hon., Membery th that there was no person more surprised than the
,eon4iziathen in the chair, who, in an eloquent speech,
Iseeasion. speech equally eloquent, at the minority on that
lot. He should
n the next question was to be the vote by bal-
lot'
other the be
at ad
surprised that by some little Si,
or 200. Then, e minority of /04 might be augmented to 189
of the duration anotherof Parliaments,
experiment IT 343 to be the shortening
session.,
in support of it, and on which the diiSsisieft might be
_ass
_ssio.n., and eongratulat so they
!would go on throaigi? .t4e
ammiettung ; for he r seesuse.ves that they were doiu
could speak of 4 LOtig Parliamentary

life as well as his Honourable Friend, and he remembered
how the Catholic question was bandied about between the twi,
great factions for thirty years, the parties being sometimes in
a considerable minority and sometimes in a small majority ;
but the game was kept up for thirty years, until the people of
Ireland did that which the people of England ought to clo
now.—(Loud cheers.) Now, said the Hon. Gentleman, I
tell you what I think ought to have been done, because it is
not to be denied that though, as my Hon. Friend says, the
two parties are very nearly balanced, yet the two factions are
not nearly balanced. The Conservatives are 300 strong, and
they move with the malignant energy of one man—( Loud
Cheers)—but the Whigs are not 300 strong—( Cries of " No,
no")—they are the weakest of all the parties. The Radi-
cals of all shades, every man meaning well, but doubting how
best to express his meaning, amount to something like 150.
Is it riot, then, palpable, that the merely Whigs depend upon
the Radicals? The Government hangs on the hands of the
Radicals. We can command what we like; but there is a
certain timid class, and they are becoming more so as they
grow older—( Cheers, laughter, and hisses)—who think that if
the course which I am about to imitate were pursued, it would
lead to the overthrow of the Whig party, to which my answer
is, that if they do not adopt the views 'of the Radical party,
they being the organ of this party, the" sooner they are over-
thrown the better.—( Loud cries of " No, no " and " Yes,
yes.") The people want more power in the House of
Commons, and to obtain that they must get an extensive
change in the machinery of the representation. In what way,
then, are the people to be strengthened, and to have that pre-
dominant influence in the House of Commons as would not
make it any longer a question what the House of Lords will
do, but upon all occasions make it do, what it is that the people
will. The Lords were really not an object for their conside-
ration.—( Laughter and cheers.) What, then, continued the
lion. Member, ought they to do ? What was required to be
done was, to have one measure brought forward by the free
and efficient representatives of the people, which should, in
one Bill, embody the vote by ballot, the shortening of Par-
liament, and the extension of the suffrage. That would be
an extended measure ; and then let the 150 Radicals go up to
his Majesty's Ministers and say—" In degree we confide in
ou, because we believe that you are anxious to advance the
national prosperity. But we sympathire with your incompe-
tency to carry these measures unless you have a more efficient
House of Commons; and We now come to point out to you
the only mode in which you can obtain it, and we tender this
Bill to you as a proof of our hearty, zealous, and constant co-
' operation." If they accepted the Bill, the people would
have it. If they rejected the Bill, they would be worth
nothing to the people. It might be said by the Ministers,
" We don't differ with you on this subject ; we concur with
you in all you propose; but look at the mighty power op-
posed to such a scheme of reform : the Court is against us,
and the more strongly because the people are with us;
while the , Peerage and pretty nearly all the privileged
orders of the State are against us." The answer of the peo-
ple would be, that these were only formidable by their desig-
nations. They were feeble in numbers, and powerless before
a combined Parliament. The same energy by which the
people were able to carry the Reform Bill, and which was a
more eflicient measure, and more likely to affect the condi-
tion of their opponents, would be able to carry this Bill.
But they never could stir the people of this country up to
those gigantic exertions by which that great measure was
accomplished, unless they appealed to their feelings and in-
terests, and gave them confidence that the measure was
really identified with their well-being. He would make one
remark only as to the mode of dealing with the House of
Lords. No man in his senses dreamt of any legislative
measure to reform the Lords ; for, in the first place, they
never could get it carried through the House of Commons,
unless the changes he had spoken of were adopted,
because a great part of the members of that House
either bore titles or were connected with the aris-
tocracy. What was wanted was, let the House of Com-
mons pass a resolution that, after a Bill should have been sent
up to the Lords, and rejected by them, it should be taken into
consideration by the Commons, and if the Commons, esti-
mated, not numerically, but according to the number of the
constituents they represent, should, to the amount of two-thirds
of the many millions thus represented, be in favour of the mea-
sure, then it should no longer be tendered to the Lords, but
should he presented to his Majesty to receive his royal fiat ;
and if his Majesty, in the exercise of his superior wisdom,
should withhold his assent, then the Speaker of the House of
Commons should place upon that Bill the fiat and impression
of the sovereign mind.—(Laughter and cheers.) That would
become a legislative act worthy the representatives of a free
people. He was aware that this measure might have an effect
upon some minds similar to what the proposition of the Hon.
Member for Middlesex had on the minds of people in 1819,
when he proposed that Church property should be declared to
be public property. But they were not to be afraid of the
truth, and when the truth was made known it would soon be
discovered that to govern intelligent men the mode was simple,
and only required that the public mind should be appealed to,
which would always exercise a sound discrimination, so that,
to whatever changes it might lead, they might he assured it
would be to none from which any holiest and intelligent man
ought to revolt.--( Cheers. )
Mr. ROEBUCK felt himself in a somewhat peculiar situation.
lie had heard a speech to-night which it would have pleased
him much better to have heard a fortnight ago. Surrounded
as he was by about six hundred of men who called themselves
the representatives of the people, he had raised his voice, and
stated what he thought was requisite for the 'good government
of the country; and the eloquent voice which they had heard
this evening, telling its tale of truth out of doors, was silent
within those walls.--( Cheers.) He wanted to know the rea-
son why he was not supported then by that powerful advocacy
and that sarcastic tongue which they had heard to-night.—
( Cheers.) He on that occasion believed that it was the time
for expressing a distinct opinion on the people's behalf. Some
of his friends thought by doing so he was going too far; but
he determined to try the experiment, and what peculiarly galled
him at the present moment was, that finding an Hon. Member
of the House of Commons agreeing with him, he did not get
up and support him on that occasion, backed as he was by a
numerous and liberal constituency. —(Cheers.) It was re-
markable that among all the liberal Members of the metropoli-
tan constituency there was not one who should have had the cou-
rage to stand up in the House of Commons and state that which
they were ready to say before a willing assembly.—( Hear,
hear.) The real democratic principle having been stated by
him, it was essential that it should have been shown that there
were intelligent constituencies in England, and more particu-
larly in London, who sympathized with him. There was an
eloquent Member who could have supported him, and he could
not get it out of his mind that he did not on that occasion.—
( Laughter, and cheers.) lie was one of those who did not
state out of doors what ho was afraid to state in, or in doors what
lie would not state out. He stated in the House of Commons
what he would state to the people. He treated the aristo-
cratic principle in that House with the same contemptuous in-
difference as he did there, and lie would say that he ought to
have been supported in that manly expression of his opinions,
but he was not.—(Cheers.) He would say that it was hard
for him to come out of that House, where he had been watched
and baited by a large body of the aristocracy, and to find
cowering democrats at one side.—( Loud cheers.) He would
not give a farthing for that courage which was not ready for
a proper occasion. He was the courageous man who did
not talk of meeting difficulties and beating them, but who,
when he met them, beat them.—(Loud cheering.) It
appeared to him that there had been somewhat of unfair
dealing with a very reverenced friend of his then sitting on
his right hand ( Mr. flume.) It had been stated by insi-
nuation that he grew more timid as lie grew more old. Now
he had often differed with his reverenced friend, but he never
thought himself justified in calling him a coward—(Loud
cheers)—ho who for twenty years had stood up in the
house of Commons, and stood alone in opposition to Tory
power, and when, as he had told them, lie was baited as if he
had been a wild beast.—Ay, no one knew what an atmosphere
the House of Commons was, but he who had been in it. They
had had a powerful illustration of its influence in its silencing
Members very recently afforded them.—( Laughter and cheers. )
Well, then, if this powerful tongue, if this strong patriotism,
if this vehement eloquence, could have been so silenced a
fortnight since in a Reformed House of Commons, wherein
were to be found, according to the Hon. Member's own state-
ment, a hundred and fifty Radicals, what ought they to think
of the potency of that House where, in the place of a hundred
and fifty Radicals, there was not to be found one beyond my
Hon. Friend ? What ought they to think of the potency of
that Aristocracy which he then withstood, while battling the
people's cause, when no other man dared lift his puny voice
in their favour ?—The Hon. Gentleman then proceeded to jus-
tify the course which the Reformers had determined on pur-
suing, by introducing the several measures which they advo-
cated in separate Bills, and ridiculed the idea of bringing them
forward altogether in one measure. He contended that that was
the proper plan to bring Members of Parliament to the test on
each particular measure. He had already told the House of
Commons that which he had not found any of those burning
patriots bold enough to tell them, that he did not behave the
House represented the wishes of the people. He bad told
them that the fault was in the House of Commons, and not in
the House of Lords. It was mighty easy to tell such an au-
dience as he was then addressing these things. They were
willing listeners, and he saw a sort of feverish feeling displayed
in their countenances while men were talking to them of libe-
ral principles ; but he could assure them that the feelings
were very different which prevailed in the House of Commons.
Instead of eager listeners, be found feelings of contempt and
disgust towards every man who dared to advance liberal opi-
nions. It was that which put down timid Reformers. It
was that which kept them like a sort of bottled elixir, which
burst forth when brought into another atmosphere.—(Loud
laughter and cheers.) He would have them bear in mind
that the real friend of the people was he who bearded the
House of Commons, and lie would have them always to re-
member that his Hon. Friend the Member for Middlesex had
bearded them in days when no other man had courage to lift
up his voice. It was on this ground that he had spoken
warmly. He had differed often from his Hon. Friend, but
that difference had never led him to express anything but the
highest veneration for his character.—(Loud cheers.)
Mr. HARVEY rose to explain, amid conflicting cries of
" Chair," and " Hear, bear."
The CHAIRMAN wished to know whether it were the desire
of the meeting that they should enter on a discussion which
might, perhaps, become too warm ?—( Cries of " No, no.")
They had met to do honour to Mr. Wakley, and they were not
Otero to state what might be their private feelings one way or
the other. A sort of difference of opinion having been mani-
fested by the two last speakers, he wished them to say whe-
ther that discussion should be prolonged or not.-4 Cries of
5' .N. 9, Po.")
Mr. Harvey then left his seat and was about to retire, but
the company having t4agifp,ltpd to hint their desire that he
should not leave the room, he Pefiirme4 to his place amidst
944 ay long-continued cheering.
'the C;;a454,q,....4s it seems to me to be your desire dot