The Sun.
London, England, 1830-02-12 00:00:00

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eased. I c,in assure the !rouse that I rtu ,st strongly
sYrnpathize with it in this feeling, and that I shall
nat, therefore, detain it for many minute: z. I shall,
act'ordingiy, at once proceed to disemba rrass this
question of the many allusions, personal ant, I political,
IY.„hich it has pleased my Right Hon. Fri end (Mr.
tluskisson) to heap upon it in an extreme ly desul-
tory 4pvech, that I must beg leave to say . I do not
consider worthy either of his talents or h is great
htttainments. My Right Hon. Friend ha intro-
duced many topics arid advanced many argu-
"its which I think it must be on al 1 hands
',flowed have no very close connection with
the question upon which we are called on to decide.
'"LY Right lion. Friend ha,: said he expects that his
:qhjesty's Government are prepared to ail :)pt the
Principles of Mr. Canning, because we he ce ap-
pointed a learned arid diitinguished inc lividual
to the office of Attsrm y-General, which .he had
held under the Admini,:tration of that Gent lemur,
arul because we have elevated another eminer it per-

B°,l to the situation of Lord Chief Baron of Scot-
1511d. My Right Hon. Friend then passes ; t high
encomium upon the talents, and learnine, ate I cite-
ticter of Sir James Scarlett, in which I mot t cor-
dially concur; an'l he also pronounces a par iegyric
equally warm and equally well merited up on the
Lord Chief Baron of Scotland. Neither, Sir, to
this can I possibly have the least objection. I rejoice
In my political connection with a gentleman 30 pro-
r"odly learned in the Etielish and Scotch law ;
and I feel proud of our having selected a gee tleman
for promotion who cannot fail to do honour to the
situation.► therefore concur in the panegyrit ;: but
I really cannot allow that it of necessity fo Flows,
either from this or from the other appointment, that
We are to adopt the principles of Mr. Canning,, end
follow his example by transferring the elective fran-
ohise from East Retford to the town of Birn
iny-
ham.—(Cheers.)—And, Sir, if we were to fo glow
the example of Mr. Canning on other occasions, as,
for inetatice, in the ease of Grampound, so far
Would we be from attending to the recornmentla-
tions of my -11;LOit Hon. Friend, that we shou Id
precisely pursue the course that we are about I o
pursue. Neither, Sir, do I see that my allusion to
my non. Friend the Member for Sussex as a pr o•
per person to represent the interests of the grot,vt firs
of wool on time East India Committee, is so excee-
lively ridiculous; nor indeed, Sir, can I pee wl tat
connection it has with the borough of East E et-
.,,r`ird.—(Cheers.)—l do not feel the force of my
Itight Hon. Ft fiend's ridicule. I said upon a fort ner
occasion, and I now repeat it, that I do consider
that in a question so materially affecting the lant led
interests as that upon which the East India Coen-
rnittee would be engaged, there should be at lea st
one Member connected whh the wool trade. Si'r,
I do recollect that in the able speech with which th e
nerl. Member opposite (Mr. Wolrych Whitmore)
introduced the question respecting the trade anti
commerce of our East India possessions to the
House, he did expressly state that in time northern
Parts of China a vast market might be opened for
our woollen goods.—(Hear, hear.)—Thus, then,
Sir; it would appear that there is an extensive op-
portunity for trade, and why then should I be
blamed for introducing a Member to represent the
interests of those producing the article in which the
commerce would be carried on? Believing, then,
Sr,i that there must be a possibility of supplying
the northern parts of China with our woollen manu-
fsetures, presuming that the production of wool
is connected with these woollen manufacture,
do not think it unreasonable to put one
gentleman upon that Commit tee—(Heae)—
sOll therefore did I feel or fear no ridicule in put-
ting Mr. Burrell on a Committee occupied upon the
subject of commerce to China.—(Cheers.)—Now,'
Sir, with respect to the alleged preponderance of a
Landed Aristocracy in this House, I beg Hon.
Gentlemen to examine if the landed interest really
be predominant. For observe, my Right Hon.
leriend objects to the introduction of even one re-
presentative of a particular branch of the landed in-
terest ; and he wished me to remove one Hon. Mem-
ber for Yorkshire (Mr. Stuart Wortley), who is a
landed proprietor, and to place upon it the other
Member (Mr. Marshall), who is a commercial man
--(Hear, hear,)—instead of the almost single re-
presentative of the landed interest.—(Hear, hear.)
—I confess, Sir, I do not see that proof of the pre-
ponderance of the landed interest ; I do not repent
having placed Mr. Burrell upon the Committee; I
do not regret my not having consented to put Mr.
Marshall in the place of Mr. Stuart Wortley; I do
not feel that there was any thing SO extremely un-
just in my not having removed from a Committee
of thirty-three, consisting, in far the greater part, of
gentlenten connected with the manufacturing inte-
rests, the ouly Members to represent the great and
ancient staple commodity of the country.—( Cheers.)
Now, Sir, I will address myself to the immediate
merits of the subject under discussion. Sir, it appears
there are four courses offered to us. The first is to
isiote the writ for the return of Members for East
Retford at once. There are some who suppose that the
evidence of bribery and corruption in this borough is not
complete; or they think that so much time has elapsed
since this bribery took place, that the borough has suffered
infficient punishment by the suspension of its franchise.—
The second proposition is that of the Hon. Member for
Hertfordshire (Mr. N. Calvert), and it is to throw the
right of Toning into the hundred of Baseetlaw. The
third is to transfer time Elective Franchise to Birmingham.
The fourth is the amendment of the Noble Lon! opposite
(Lord Howick), who calls upon us to pronounce a sweep-
in; censure upon all the cities and boroughs of Great
as guilty of notorious end general delinquency.-
Bn-, I intend to adopt the proposition of my lion. Fiiend,
and vote for the transferring of the franchise to the Hun-
dred of Ibutsetlaw. 1 object to the first, because I have
arrived at the conclusion that although there might not
have been strictly legal proof of the guilt of individual
freeholders, yet was there evidence sufficiently strong to
bring conviction to my mind that the prevailing character
of the borough was that the many were liable to the
charge of corruption, and that, therefore, there were the
greatest objections to issuing the writ. I think, then, Sir,
that considering the feeling produced in this House by the
evidence respecting East Retford, and the opinions which
it has heretofore expressed, there would now be extreme
lenity iu neglecting to pnnisk those corrupt practices of
Whosaexistence we must be satisfied. Now, with respect
*.to the Noble Lord's amendment, I shall beg to say a few
Words. I can assure tl.e Noble Lord I have always much
Pleasure in hearing him speak. His statements are
always clear and satisfactory, and brought forward in a
banner that reflects touch honour on him. But I am
lentnal to say that I have great objection to his motion.—
calls upon us to adopt, without proof, a resolution
Which would condemn all our cities and boroughs guilty of
corruption. Now, Sir, I for one never can bring myself to
agree to this. But even supposing that the Noble Lord be
Perfectly sorreet in his opinion—supposing that bribery
• and corruption be universal in the cities and boroughs—
tlB fact, Sir, would only strengthen the arguments and
°furnish us with additional reasons in favour of his Hon.
ilend's motion ; for thus condemning all the cities and
boroughs, he excludes the counties from the charge of bri-
tSrY, and so holds out the strongest possible inducement
p us to vote for the transfer of this franchise to a body of
freehold representatives, which is, perhaps, awl which I
really believe to be, the most pure.—(Cheers.)—Now
11413, Sir, if I am to choose between a freehold and a bo-
tough constituency, I cannot, of course, hesitate to decide
fur that which appears least open to bribery and corrup-
tin
n ; and therefore should I select that class for East Het-
-°r(l--(Hear.)--13ut, Sir, the House will pause before it
"ries to a conclusion upon a charge that has not been
proved. I am quite sure that the Members for cities and
°rerishe will never consent to having so great a stigma
tea:t upon their constituents without proof.—(liesr.)—
I
en if I were to admit the truth and justice of the charge,
thould now call on the Noble Lord for a Bill to prevent
such practices, because it ought at once to follow such a
resolution as that proposed by the Noble Member. But,
Sir, I cannot even consent to include in that general charge
of bribery and corruption the borough which I have the
honour to represent.—(Hear, and laughter.)—l can never
be induced to allow that my respectable constituents are
deserving of the censure which the Noble Lord would so
Generally and unsparingly inflict.—(Hear, and laughter.)
must beg to have the borough of Westbury erased
front his list. Ile is a county Member, and therefore care-
tsl•
ll* avoids throwing out any reflections against the free-
• dem who returned him.
'?rd HOWICK stated he was not a county Member.
t 4,171; Secretary PEEL—Oh, then, if he chooses tolimit
4ltt ttnd the responsibility tO the place he himself

sat Air, and if his colleague will support him, I am sure I
cannot take it upon me to object.—(Lnughter. )—But I
certainly will not consent to have my respectable censti-
tuents condemned without better evidence; and I am con-
vinced the Hon. Baronet (Sir G. Warrender) will unite
with me in protesting against the inexpediency and in-
justice of the charges preferred by the Noble Lord.—
(Hear, hear, and laughter.)—Now, with respect to the
Hundred of Basserlaw, I think my Right Hon. Friend
was misunderstord ! for myself I can only declare that I
have not abandoned those principles which served to guide
my conduct upon a former occasion. I always thought
that a eve like this should be judged en abstract reasons;
and I must say that my Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Huskis-
son) spoke this night i❑ a manner altogether unworthy his
great talents and acquirements, when he endeavoured to
raise a prejudice against the Hundred of Bassetlaw by
allusions to the Dukery, and to the hundred--times-told
stories of last year. The House will recollect, that during
the di,cuesioes of last year it was insinuated that the elec-
tive franchise WAS to he transferred to the Hundred,
in consequence of an understanding with his Grace the
Duke of Newcastle. I then stated, upon my honour,
that no communication upon the subject of East
Retford had ever been made by Government to
that Nobleman; and now, considering the very decided
opposition his Grace has declared against the Ministry, I
do not think it is very likely that we shall be accused of
endeavouring to promote any great political object by the
transfer.—(Hear, hear.) But, Sir, notwithstanding the
Duke of Newcastle's opposition, I see no reason to change
the opinions I formerly advocated or the course I deemed it
advisealde to pursue.—(Hear, hear.)—Sir, I have reason
to believe that his Grace's interest is not preponderant in
the borough. There are in that borough 2,000 respect-
able freeholders, and I have reason to doubt if any interest
can command these freeholders.—(Hear.) I beg to have
it understood that I fun not opposed to extending the right
of voting to loge towns when a case of flagrant and gene-
ral bribery has been clearly proved against a borough. I
did vote, it will be recollected, for the transfer of the elec-
tive franchise from Penryn to Manchester. I did then
concede the principle, that the franchise of un offending
borough ought to be transferred to a large town, when
the county iu which that borough lay was adequately
represented. By this course I then regulated my con-
duct. But Ido not think the case of East Retford conies
within the limits 1 have laid down. There are pecu-
liar circumstances connected with this borough ; I will
not, however, trouble the House by entering upon them
at present ; this subject has already occupied our atten-
tion eight or ten times; and after all the evidence hail
been gone through, the question was decided by a ma-
jority of the House in favour of Bassetlaw ; and really,
Sir, I do ❑ot now see anything that has occurred since
June last, which should induce us to transfer the right of
voting to Birmingham instead of Bassetlaw. I am un-
willing, Sir, to repeat any of those arguments which have
been inflicted on the House to satiety, if not actually to
nausea : but I wish simply to observe, that the county of
Nottingham returning only eight Members, I do not see
any sufficient reason for reducing this number to six, by
giving two to Birmingham. On the contrary, I con►ider
it would be an act of great injustice, and of very indif-
ferent policy—the mere especially as, by pursuing another
course, we shall have the advantage of punishing the delin-
quent!), while the innocent continue to enjoy their rights.
And, Sir, to adopt the uncommon, but very forcible ex-
pression, of an Hon. Member, we shall have that opportu-
nity of punishing the delinquents by sisticiv them with
2,000 ♦otes from Bassetlaw. On these grounds, then—
thinking it for the credit of the House that has eight or ten
times come to this conclusion—not believing that there is a
preponderance of the landed interest in the House—and
perfectly convinced that an adherence on the present occa-
c.on to the line of conduct formerly pursued by us is fitter
th a❑ a departure from it—l shall, with the utmost con-
fidence, give my vote for the transfer of the franchise to the
hundred of Beasetlaw.—(Hear, hear. )—Before I sit down,
however, lam flexions to say one word. I hope, what-
ever may he the decision of this night, there will be no un-
necessary delay. I can assure my Right Hon. Friend,
that if he should succeed, although I shall certainly take
the sense of the House a second time, yet would I not on
any account interpose any vexatious delay between the
vote and the period when it should be carried into effect.
—(Cheers.)—l have spoken at greater length than I at
first intended ; but I can assure the Mouse that nothing
would be more satisfactory to me than to have this ques-
tion at length brought to a conclusion, and to know that
I was never to hear thee name of East Retford again.

Mr. N. CALVERT declared that he had not the honour
of being acquainted with the Duke of Newcastle. He did
not believe that his Grace was now the patron of East
Retford, although his Ancestor had bean so in the reign of
George IL, when he was Minister, and sent all the voters
of that borough into place.
Mr. HUSKISSON rose to explain. He had not said
that flee Government were about to adopt the principles
of Mr. Canning, because Sir James Scarlett had been
made Attorney-General, and Mr. Abercromby Lord Chief
Baron of Scotland ; hut what he had said was, that since
the Ministry were adopting Whig principles, they might,
perhaps, adopt this principle with respect to the transfer
of the elective franchise amongst the rest. He begged of
the House to recollect that a Noble Lord (the Marquis of
Darlington), in declaring his intention to support this
Tory Ministry, stated that he did so because they were
acting upon Whig principles. Now, with respect to the
list of the East India Committee, he could most safely
deny the conclusions of his Right Hon. Friend (Mr.
Peel), as to the representation of the landed interest; for
amongst the Members lie found, not simply rue, but
several great landed proprietors. There was the Marquis
of Chandos, Lord Milton, and the representative of the
House of Cavendish, in addition to the names mentioned
by his Right Hon. Friend. He contended his Right Hon.
Friend was mistaken in supposing that the Hon. Member
fin• Sussex (Mr. Burrell) represented the wool-growers,
because he happened to •lire amongst the Southdowns.
There was no reason for concluding he represented this
interest more immediately than many other county Mem-
bers. He asked who (represented the iron interest ? It
WA. true that many Members represented the counties in
which iron was produced very well, but not one repre-
sented the iron interest.

Mr. Secretary PEEL said, that as his Right Hon.
Friend, in his explanation, had thought proper to amend
his argument, he (Mr. Peel) felt it 'also necessary to ex-
plain. In the first instance his flight Hon. Friend's argu-
ment certainly was, that in consequence of the appoint-
ments already alluded to, and in consequence of the Go-
vernment having adopted one great principle, they ought
also to adopt the other principles of Mr. Canning.
Mr. HUSKISSON repeated, that, considering this
Administration a Tory Government supported by Whig
principles, he had contended they might have adopted this
one Whig principle with the rest.--(Cheers.)
Mr. C. GRANT explained--He did not mean to throw
out any insinuation against the Government, or attribute
motives to them which they had disclaimed.
Mr. LUMLEY thought that if it were impracticable to
come to a decision this Session, it would be best to let the
question fall to the ground, and issue a new Writ for East
Retford.

The Marquis of DARLINGTON stated, that he had
on all occasions voted for the motion of the Hon. Member
for Hertfordshire.

The House then divided on Mr. Tennyson's; Amend-
ment.

Ayes 99
Noes 126
'Majority against the Amendment -27

On our return to the gallery, Lord HOWICK was pro-
ceeding to address the House. The Noble Lord expressed
himself of opinion that it was extremely unfair to fasten
on one single case of political delinquency like that of
East Retford, while it was so notorious that the borough
thus stigmatised formed only a component part of a widely
prevailing system, which continued no less deserving of
reprobation and reform. He would have punishment in-
flicted indiscriminately on all culprits of every class, high
or low, wheresoever they might be found. It was an in-
controvertible fact, that undue influence, whether in the
shape of money or otherwise, had been long exercised in
every election throughout the United Kingdom. To cause
this undoubted truth to be openly declared by the House
of Commons was the object of his resolution. It, had
been already fully admitted by a Noble Lord who filled a
prominent part in the Administration several years ago
(Lord Castlereagh), and the correctness of the statement
was too generally established to be questioned from that
day to the present. It was suggested by a night Hon. Gen-
tleman opposite, that he ought to be prepared to bring in
a Bill for the prevention of bribery, grounded on his pro-
posed resolution. Now the course which he intended to
adopt was this :—After the passing of the declaratory re-
solution, be might move for the appointment of a Com-
mittee, who would be empowered to draw up a scheme
for Parliamentary Reform. But were he presented with
the alternative of stopping short in his career, or sup-
porting the Hon. Meraber for Hertfordshire, lie would not
hesitate a moment in his choice. It was his determina-
tion to oppose that Hon. Gentleman, because lie thought
his Bill was an imposition on the country.—(Hear, hear.)
He considered it a mere mockery to disfranchise a singly
borough in the existing cif cumstaoces of the country,
when no person was blind to the means by which num-
bers procured seats in that House. Perhaps it might be
said that by opposing this Bill he was virtually eacourag-

ing bribery. In reply, he could en'y 'ay, that while
at its full growth wall:e:I bold 1;.• thro,..fo the law!, Lo
would never be brought, sigh; 61 a solitAry instatiee of
corruption, to affect a horror and squeamishness which he
did not feel.

An lion. Mreenvie considered a ease had not been suf-
ficiently made out against East Retford. The House then
divided, when the numbers appeared—
Ayes
• Noes
Majority —99
ILLUSORY APPOINTMENTS.
lOn our re-admission to the gallery,
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL rose to move for leave
to bring in a Bill to amend the law relating to illusory
appointments. It would not be necessary for him to say
more than a fiev words in explanation of the change which
he proposed, and he anticipated that its expediency would
be readily assented to by every person who heard him, as
the question was not less simple than the remedy seemed
obvious. The principle of English law was favourable to
every latitude in the disposition of property, and to pro-
mote the unrestricted operation of this principle had been
the object of his attention in bringing forward the mea-
sure in contemplation. Practice had led to the introduc-
tion of two powers,—one an exclusive, the other a gene-
ral power. In an appointment of 100,0001., 99,9991.
might be given to one portion of a family whilst the re-
maining 11. was distributed amongst the rest, which would
be quite sufficient to answer the purposes of the power in
the acceptation of law. But equity steps in, and sets
aside such an arrangement, as the sum is so small that it
is denominated an illusory appointment, and therefore a
proper case for equitable interference. The Bill that he
now proposed had received, he was happy to say, the ap-
probation of the principal members of the pi ofession. Its
object was to restore law to its original condition before
the interference of equity, and to make the same rule
apply. henceforward to both. It would have necessarily a
most beneficial effect in extinguishing needless end vexa-
tious litigttion, while, on the other hand, no hardship
whatever could result in any way front the change. Any
person who ehuuld desire to distribute a specified sum in a
particular way would require only to exprese his desire, in
order to have it scrupulously enforced.
; Mr. O'CONNELL acknowledged that it would be very
great presumption in so humble an individual as himself
to differ on a legal subject with the Hon. and Learned
Gent. In the Bill alluded to, however, he conceived that
a slight mistake had been made which would require
amendment, notwithstanding the general propriety of the
measure, which he was quite ready to admit. The ex-
isting system was indeed one which much needed refor-
mation, and he would be the last to oppose the progress
of what must prove in the main an improvement. He
had conversed with sensible, well-informed, and intelligent
men, and found that not one of them could understand
what was meant by the term, " illusory appointment," the
knowledge of which was exclusively confined to the techni-
cal lawyer. They were as ignorant of the expression, as if
it had been Arabic, or rather the language of Otaheite,
for many gentlemen understood Arabic. He did not, ne-
vertheless, wholy approve of making fathers so absolute as
the Learned Gent. seemed to intend. Parents had been
known to offer proposals to their children, when appor-
tioning a distribution, and give to each according to the
bargain which he might be willing to accept. This mis-
chief would still remain, notwithstanding the proposed
Bill. In his opinion it would be. much better to take
away from the father the power of unequal apportionment.
He would adhere to the principle of the French law,which
prevented undue competition, and gave all the children an
equal share in the distribution.

The SOLICITOR-GENERAL, in explanation, could
not accede to the suggestio❑ of the Hon. Member for
Clare. He coubJ not consent to take away from the father
his legitimate and reasonable power of apportioning to his
children as lie might think proper, acting on the impulse
of his affection and the dictates of his judgment. It was
for this very reason that he admired the excellence of the
English law, although the Hon. and Learned Geatlensan
would hive him depart front it to follow the questionable
example of France.—(Hear, hear. )—His Bill would
trench neither on the rights of parents nor children. A
few words would suffice to explain the object of the Bill
which he proposed to submit to the House for facilitating
the payment of debts out of real estate. By the Statute of
William, the bond debts of an estate, even in the case of
the heir's being an infant, were recoverable in equity, but
not covenants, which were held liable in common law. He
proposed to extend the powers of the Courts of Equity to
covenants, and to enable them to give a title of the estates
of the infant sold under their jurisdiction. At present, by
a strange anomaly, the Court of Chancery possessed and
exercised the power of selling the infant's estate, but
could not give a title. He proposed to remedy that defect,
and also grant the Court of Chancery the power of giving
a title in the case of devised property.
Leave was civil to introduce the Bill.

The next Bill he should have to propose had for object
to extend to Covenants of the Act of William and Mary,
that at present only related to Bonds. A further provision
in this measure would be to render it impossible for infants
to demur to the payment of bond debts until they should
attain the age of twenty. one. As the law now stood, a
Court of Equity might order the sale of an estate belong-
ing to an infant for the benefit of creditors, but it could
give no title, so that the purchaser was obliged to wait for
his title until the infant came of age. His third Bill was
designed as an amendment of the 6th Geo. IV., which of
itself was an amendment of a Statute passed in the reign of
Queen Anne. At present the state of the law presented
this anomaly : if a man sold his estate, received the gooney
for it, and died, leaving an infant heir, the purchaser
could not obtain a conveyance of the property until the
infant came of ago. He had also introduced a provision
relative to the estates of married women, infants, luna-
tics, tic., in order to remove obstructions to the
improvement of those estates. His fourth Bill was
intimately connected with the Court of Chancery and
its proceedings. Courts of Equity acted nd perso-
nas, and not ad rem, and in all cases an appearance
was necessary : in no case but one, provided by a spe
vial Act of Parliament, when the party must be
brought to the Bar, could that appearance be entered
without the consent of the defendant. Much had been
said of the conduct of Lord Eldon upon this subject; but
he (the Solicitor-General) could assert that no man could
be inure tender of the personal liberty of the subject, and
he ❑ever committed an individual for contempt without
the most anxious and earnest desire to avoid that painful
extremity. In consequence of steps taken by that Noble
Lord, persons confined merely for non-payment of a sum
of money, as for costs of suit, could he discharged under
the Insolvent Act; but he (the Solicitor-General) was
convinced that the time had arrived in which relief should
be carried much farther, and he thought he could esta-
blish, without difficulty, the justice and expediency of
altering the existing law. The Commissioners upon the
Court of Chancery had suggested the fitness of shorteninb
the process, and he proposed to render it much shorter
than they had considered necessary. In the Bill he had
framed, he had made use of some portions of the measure
which had been founded upon the Report of the Com-
missioner., and which hail been brought in by the present
occupant of the Woolsack, when Master of the Roll..
He could not think, and never hail thought it sight,
that men should be confined, perhaps for life, with-
in the walls of a prison, because they had slot
the means, even if they had the inclination, to put
in answers to bills filed against them ; he, therefore,
proposed to relax the system, and to afford a remedy, to
which, he believed, no objection could be raised. As it
stood, the law was not to be endured; and against poor
men, in a few rare cases, it operated with unmixed bitter-
ness ; let the cases be ever so rare, if they could exist, it
was highly proper that the evil should be met and redressed.
When once a man was lodged in a county gaol for con-
tempt, there was no obligation upon the party lodging him
there to take the slightest notice of the prisoner fur the rest
of his life. He behoved that there wits but one existing
instance of the kind, and there the man merited what he
suffered, for he remained in the county gaol for the purpose
of evading an act, which he ought, in justice, to perform.
A poor man, a tailor, in Coventry gaol, after he had been
there for seven years, had written to him (the Solicitor-
General). With a very few exceptions, he found the parties,
who occasioned the imprisonment, disposed to aid hint in the
task of setting free those who were confined ; and the poor
tailor, having been released from prison, had been put in
possession of his estate, which had been mortgaged, and
had since written a grateful letter, in whicb, he stated that
he had never known a state of such comparative affluence
and happiness. The evil arising out of the non-entry of
appearances was capable of an easy and an immediate
remedy, and it was this :—to enable a party to enter an
appearance for a person who would not enter it for him-
self; if it were not done within a seasonable time by
the defendant himself, it should be done for him, and
the gaoler authorised to release the individual in con-
tempt. The object of imprisonment was to -get a cer-
tain act performed, and as soon as it was performed,
either by the defendant or by others, the object was an-
swered. At the same time lie wished the change to be
accompanied by this provision :—that where justice could
net be done sinless the defendant himself put in the an-
swer, the Court should have the power, upon application,
to prolong the confinement. He begged Hon. Members
to observe that there was a great difference between this
aniewirnent and the present state of the. law. Now a

nian might he left in gaol year after year to the end of
his life without the slightest notice of his being still in ex-
istence; by the change he proposed, the imprisonment of
no man could b prolonged without special application ti
the Court,' and that with dire notice to the party. When
he came to investigate the state of the Fleet Prison, he
saw clearly that some alteration was necessary ; but it was
a mistake to assert that the parties there confined for con-
tempt were victims of the Court of Chancery—they were
victims of the law, which Inv it was expedient to amend.
The present times, and the present state of inen's minds,
were favourable to that alteration; and without assuming
the slightest credit to himself for taking advantage of this
disposition which slid not before exist, at least to the
same extent, and anxious to shun all compatison in every
other respect with his ab!e predecessors in office, he had
undertaken to draw the attention of the Legislature to the
subject. When he first visited the Fleet, he found, he
believed, thirty-seven prisoners there for contempt of the
Court of Chancery
.one had been there for nineteen
years, another for sixteen, a third for twelve, a fourth fir
ten years, and so on with others for shorter periods. He
found also, to his great astonishment, that the persons
sent there by, and thus considered victims of the Court of
Chancery, held all the must lucrative situations in the pri-
son. The cook had been confined in contempt for six
years, although lie need not have remained there for six
days, hail he chosen to give up his iloutishing office. The
hotel-keeper had been tea years in prison, without the
slightest necessity for stopping there ; and his place, he
was informed, was worth from 2001. to 3001. a year.
The individual who occupied the tap—a situation pro-
ducing from 1501. to 2001. a year—had been committed
for contempt, and had already remained there for six
years. Another person was a solicitor : he had been in
the Fleet three years; and need not have been there as
many days; hut he was now domiciled, and practised his
profession with much success. lie had, however, found
in similar confinement one gentleman, who bad for 13
years been in a state of imbecility, and who was therefore
utterly incapable of putting in any answer to a bill in
Chancery. Had he died, he' would indeed have been
lamented over as one of the victims of the Court ;
but what was the fact? He had been kept in pri-
son for the convenience of others; and he had made
no hesitation in telling those others, that if they did
riot set hint at liberty, lie would issue a Commission of
Lunacy against the imbecile gentleman, sad have a guar-
dian appointed. What was the result ? In December,
1829, an order for his discharge was produced by his
friends, dated in August, 1827, which for their own pur-
poses they had till then kept in their pockets, and would
have allowed him to die a victim to the Court of Chan-
cery. Besides this gentleman, there were two wretched
individuals, both out of their minds : although one was
sane enough to do wrong, though he would not do right;
the other was merely a silly idiot, who del not know right
from wrong. For the cases of such persona it was obvious
that a provision should be made; and he proposed that
the Court should he empowered to assign to them Coun-
sel and Solicitors, even though no commission of lunacy
had been issued against them. (At this moment the
noise in the House, which had prevailed to a considerable
extent during the whole of the lion. and Learned Gent.'s
speech, increased beyond what it had previously done.)—
Before the interruption he was about to state, that one of
the objects of his measure would be to give relief at once
to any man who made out a case of poverty. For this
purpose lie should propose that four times in the year a
King's Counsel and a Master in Chancery be appointed to
e;sit the prison, to report upon its state, and make a repre-
sentation of the persons whose cases required relief, upon
which a solicitor and counsel should be assigned to them,
and the questions on which they were at issue with other
parties, brought to as speedy a decision as possible. There
was another reform he meant to introduce, which was this,
that whenever any roan was ordered to execute a deed, and
that he slid not immediately comply, the Court, instead of
imprisoning him, should execute the deed for him, and
whenever it was proper for any man to do any act, should
not confine him for the remainder of his life, but should
proceed at once as if the thing were done. He would
even carry that principle further—he would apply it to
the case of fines and recoveries. Whatever was the na-
ture of the act to be done, whenever it was derided that
it should be done, then let it be the business of the Court
to see its own commands carried into effect. By the re-
turns made in 1821, out of 31 persons then in custody,
there was one who had been confined for a period of 19
years, and he declined to accept his liberty on the pro-
posed terms. There was another who had been confined
fur 15 years, and who was at that time in a state of im-
becility. The Return of 1827 gave the name of one man
who had been confined fur 25 years ; but he, so far from
wishing to be liberated, procured an affidavit of debt to he
made against him, for tile purpose of his further detention,
in order that be might preserve to himself the enjoyment
of confinement, in despite of the Court by which he was
originally committed—so remaining voluntarily in prison.
Of the number in prison in 1827, he had now the satis-
faction of stating, that the cases of the greater part were
in a fair traits of being satisfactorily disposed of. He then
concluded, by moving " for leave to bring in a Bill to
facilitate the 'Payment of Debts out of Real Estate."
The question having been put,

Mr. HUME was far from undervaluing the labours of
the lion. and Learned Gentleman who had just sat
down ; on the contrary, he appreciated them highly ; but
he must be allowed to say that many of the returns upon
which the last Speaker had founded his observations were
laid upon the table of that House at his (Mr. H.) instance.
Neither could he concur with that Hon. and Learned Gen-
tleman in the eulogium he had pronounced upon the late
Lord Chancellor. The improvements in the law before
the House would do the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, by
whom they had been proposed infinite honour, and could
not but prove to him a source of satisfaction and honest
pride the longest day he bad to live—yet other Attorneys
and Solicitors General had enjoyed their large income,
and all the rank and patronage and advantages of other
offices, without ever bestowing a thought upon the thou-
sands whom a single act of theirs might set at liberty.
But nothing could be further from the thoughts of these
great officers than discharging that solemn and important
duty. They, so far as he could perceive, neglected every
thing but their own private interests, leaving thousands and
tens of thousands to pine in prison and in suffering. The
censure upon those functionaries was the higthest praise of
the Hon. and Learned Gent, opposite, as were his praises
their condemnation, for the ahanteful neglect of duty of
which they had been guilty. It was with the utmost
difficulty he could imagine how the late Lord Chancellor
could have reconciled it to his conscience, of which he so
often spoke, to remain five and twenty years in office
without once making a proposition for the amelioration of
that Court over which he presided. There was one case
in the year 1821 which in an especial degree attracted his
notice ; it was that of an old woman who had been one
and twenty years in prison, and who was allowed to re-
main there up to the time of ker death. The people of
England had claims for Vie remedy of those abuses of
which they were not aware, and yet they went on from
day to day sanctioning abuses for which the Law Officers
ought to be held responsible, but which up to the present
moment they had never held out their hands to correct.

The SOLICITOR-GENERAL could not but feel the
prsises of the Hon. Member for Montrose as most painful,
seeing that they were only given to him in the form of
censures pronounced upon the conduct of his predecessors.
It was by no means correct to argue that they had done
wrung in not anticipating his measures: he stood in a
different situation from what they did, especially as re-
spected time. What might have been extremely proper
for him to propose to Parliament, various causes might
have prevented them from bringing forward ; but this, he
submitted, formed no ground of censure against them.
Lord ALTHORP said, that it was perfectly natural
and just that the Hon. Member for Montrose should con-
trast the conduct of the present Law Officers of the Crown
with that of their predecessors.
Sir C. WETHERELL complained of the sweeping
anathema which the Member for Montrose had pronounced
against all who had filled legal offices under the Crown.
Ile had taken them severely to task, and he (Sir Chas.
Wetherell) would take him to task. He would ark that
lion. Member where he was all the time the Chancery
Commission was sitting ? It was well known to all who
sat upon that Commission that the Noble Lord (Eldon)
whole conduct had been so severely censured uniformly
attended that Commission ; and though a lawyer of the
highest eminence, and a Magistrate of the highest order,
yet he attended that Commission, and communicated with
the youngest tyro of the law amongst its Members upon
the most perfect terms of equality. He came to that
Commission, and he said that whenever his presence could
aid their deliberations, or afford the smallest light or as-
sistance, then would he be present ; and that whenever
his absence would conduce to the objects for which they
had been formed, then would he be absent. Now, he
would once again beg leave to break a lance with the lion.
Member for Montrose why did he not come down to the
Chancery Commission ?.—(Hear, hear.)—Why did he
not come down to that Commission with his information
in his pocket, and enlighten them all ? He was a legal Re-
former and an Ecclesiastical Reformer—a Reformer of the
Church and of the Finances--an otunigenous Refoi mer—
an encyclopedical Reformer—(A laugh,)—why did he not
then come down and lay before them the stores of his
learning in matters regarding the Court of Chancery
But no ; the Hon. Member for Moßtroie did not think

proper to 4ome forward upon that occasion ; he kept his
complaints in pelto till the Noble Lord went out of office,
and than be stood forward to pronounce against him
a sweeping anathema, all the while taking especial
care not to mention any one of the services
which that Noble Lord did to the substantial
improvement of the administration of just ice.—
He slid nothng of the eapenees i❑ tines and reco-
veries which tits Noble Lord almished. Again, they
heard nothing from the lion. Member for Montrose re-
specting the improvements which Lord Eldon effected in
the state of the law relating to executors. But it would he
in vain that he should attempt to do justice to the public
services of that Noble and Learned Person. He was not
prepared at a short notice to give so good a syllabus of hie
merits as the Hon. Member for Montrose had given of his
demerits; lie would not do injustice to those merits by
the❑ entering into them at length, unfitted for the task as
he was by no trifling degree of indisposition. Those two
orders of Lord Eldon's which he had already adverted to
were of the highest importance to every professional man,
as well knew, and as many men of property could not bet
occasionally feel ; to these he might add many more, did
time allow ; but he must say, that when that Noble Lord
had now retired from the vortex of public life—from that
political collision i❑ which he had been engaged for so
many years, it was rather hard to deal out to him such
a measure of injustice.—(Hear, hear, hear.)—He would
say egregious injustice, to endeavour to lay upon his back
such stripes and lashes as those which the Mon. Member
for Montrose sought to inflict. Lord Edon, one of the
most amiable and excellent of men, was at the same time
one of the greatest and most learned of lawyers. As he
was on his legs, he would advert briefly to the charges of
the lion. Member against the various individuals who had
filled the offices of Attorney and Solicitor-General. Many
of them hail come from the Hon. Member's own side of
the House—the late Sir Samuel Romilly for example; he
of course meant to include that learned and eminent person
in the sweeping condemnation which he had pronounced
upon the class of official delinquents whose conduct failed
to meet with his approbation. To his mind nothing could
appear more ungracious than for the Hon. Member fur
Montrose to enlarge with such extraordinary severity upon
the conduct of legal functionaries, when his own side of
the House te.'as at all times ready to furnish the State wi:h
a quiver of Law Officers. It should be remembered that
the present Attorney-General came fame that side of the
House, and lead not, up to the present moment, proposed any
legal reforms ; but it was hardly fair to say any thing of
him ; he was too fresh and green in his office to be made
the subject of much animadversion. As to the general
principles of the Bill, he entirely approved of them, as he
should think that any gentleman at the Bar mast do.

Mr. O'CONNELL-LThe Bills which the Solicitor-
General proposed to introduce gave every promise of being
highly useful, and as such they claimed his support. It
seemed to him that hia Hon. Friend (Mr. Hume) had not
been quite fairly dealt with. He had been attacked he-
cause he had not joined in the complaints preferred against
Lord Ellon ; hut, after all, on the showing of his own
eulogists, what had that Learned Lord done for his coun-
try? He had received mure than half a million of its
money, and in return introduced two measures into Par-
liament.

Leave was then given to the Solicitor-General to bring
in a Bill to facilitate the Payment of Debts out of Real
Estate ; a Bill for Amending the Law relating to the Pro-
perty of Infants, Femznes Covertes, and Lunatic. ; a Bill
for Amending the Law relating to Lunatic and Infant
Trustees, and Mortgagees ; and a Bill for Amending the
Law relating to Process of Contempt, and Commitments
for Contempt by Courts of Equity.