The Sun.
London, England, 1863-02-20 00:00:00

PRISON DISCIPLINE.

The Earl of CARNARVON called the attention of the
house to the state of discipline in the different gaols and
houses of correction. The noble earl said the criminal
population was divided into two classes, namely, those whe
were sentenced to three years penal servitude and over, and
those sentenced to shorter terms of imprisonment. The
Royal Commission would only inquire into the former, the
latter would be altogether overlooked. It was of the ut-
most importance that a Government inquiry into
the subject should be made, especially as in
some instances the old system of association was kept up
in many of the country gaols. The system of taking sta-
tistics was excsedingly defective, because they were
always in arrear of the present time; but taking those up
to 1861, he found there was an increase of 13 per cent. in
the committals over those of the preceding year; en increase
of 9 over committals. end an increase upon other classes.
There was nut the slightest reason to believe that there was
any decrease is the following year, whilst in the present the
alarm caused by the increase of crime had been so great
that numbers of persons looked upon it as unsafe to walk
in the streets after dark. He thought a great deal of the
evil was brought about by the kind of punishment
inflicted. Since 1850, when the subject was under the con-
sideration of the House of Commons, the system in the
gaols was admitted to be against hard labour, and an aet
stating the limits to which it was applied was passed. The
reality, however, was that in most of the gaols the stan-
dard of hard labour was very far from being reached, and
they would find that in recent cases the minimum of six
hours labour-sunk down to three or four. In many large
prisons there was a great deficiency in the means of
tarrying out the punishment of hard labour, whilst the
dietary was far too high, meat being given in some form or
other every day of the week. Not content with this the
luxuries of tea, sugar, cocoa, and other articles were pro-
fusely given, In one of the prisons what was called extra
diet was allowed, and this indulgence was given with-
out the slightest rule, as was evidenced by the fact
that while in some the prisoners extra dieted was as 1 to 8,
in others it was as I to 35. The diet given in workhouses
had been compared with that given in prisons, and he knew
for a fact that in some workhouses in the south meat was
seldom given, and that the diet was much below that of pri-
sons. The work done in workhouses was far more severe than
in some prisons he could mention, yet in the one case the in-
mates of workhouses were perfectly willing to earn their sub-
sistence, while in the other complying with the rules of the
prison was all that was required to secure good and plenti-
ful food. He was not an advocate for starvation of crimi-
nals, yet he thought there was a medium between that
and the plentiful manner in which they were treated ; and
if that were only observed, and offenders were treated in a
manner their offences deserved, they would do much to
bring about a better state of things. The decrease in the
infliction of whipping was most extraordinary. In 1862-60
it appeared that one in every 1,000 prisoners was whipped
in the following year, 1860-61, only one in I,boo ; and in
1861-62 the proportion had decreased to one in 2,240. The
inspectors had resolved upon its discontinuance, and the
whole course of Parliamentary action had been against the
infliction of corporal punishments. But brutalised men,
who had over and over again been convicted, feared corpo-
ral punishment when nothing else had terrors for them. As
to the hours of rest, too, there were great differences between
gaols. In some 14 hours of sleep were allowed, in others
only eight hours. The present system was mischievous as
regarded the prisoner. It was a mere gambling with the
chances of the law, and most painful as regarded the admi-
nistration of justice. Lord Denman, Bat on Parke, whose
absence he regretted on that occasion—(here Baron Parke,
now Lord Wensleydale, bowed to the noble earl, who pro-
ceeded)—Baron Parke and Baron Alderson had all declared
their opinit ns that suitable punishment for crime was the
most merciful course in the long run. He did not wish to
exclude moral reformation— God forbid I but he thought that
attempts at moral reformation should be secondary and sub-
ordinate to punishment. His lordship was cheered on re-
suming his seat.
Earl GRANVILLE said that the subject was a very
difficult one. As to the hard labour, there were many men
with whom you could not carry labour beyond a certain
point. To make some men do unproductive labour was more
irksome than any other punishment. As to the diet, the pro-
bability was that the system was rather too lenient. Public
opinion had gone in opposition to the former system, and
had deprecated undue severity, and the result had been that
too much attention had been paid to the comfort and too
little to the punishment of prisoners. Howtver, the Go-
vernment could not do much on that point. The visiting
justicss arranged the rules of the county gaols. Sit Benja-
min Brodie, who was not likely to be unduly influenced,
said that so serious was the effect of confinement on prisoners
that great care should be taken of their dietary. He (Earl
Granville) believed that if they compared the entire cost of
the keep of paupers with that of prisoners, it would be found
that the paupers cost two-fifths more than the prisoners.
As to his noble friend's example in support of the advan-
tages of prison life, that prisoners often thanked the judge
for sentencing them to hard labour, he (Earl Granville)
ranch doubted the sincerity of such thanks. Prisoners liked
to appear bold, and when they had heard the worst, they
liked to—as the common expression had it—they liked to
4' chaff" the judge. (Laughter.) His noble friend might rely
upon it that the greatest boon that could be granted to those,
and to all prisoners, would be to let them out. (Hear, hear.)
The food of prisoners must be sufficient, in order to prevent
their bodies from being wasted by low fever. Even for the
sake of moral reformation they must have a sound body,
in order that the mind might be sound. (Hear, hear.) The
prisons, too, might be properly warmed and ventilated.
It would be very difficult to secure consistency and unifor-
mity in all the gaols without strengthening the central
Power But, if the noble earl would move for a committee
of their lordships—as he had suggested to one of his (Earl
Granville's) colleagues—to take up the subject of gaols
and discipline, her Majesty's Government would have no
objection. The recommendations of such a committee
would have great weight with the justices.
The Earl of AL.A.LMESBUItY said that he could certify
as well as his noble friend that the pauper was less well off
than the occupant of the county gaol. He had often heard
them say, " Why, 'tis better to be in Winchester Gaol than
to get out-door relief." The allowances for soldiers and
sailors were less than the allowances for diet in some of the
gaols, The effect must bo very bad upon men who see cri-
minals better off than those who have passed their lives
honestly labouring, or in the service of her Majesty. Cri-
minals ought to be convinced that the punishment for their
Crimes would be certain, and that the sentences passed by
the judges would be immutable. But at present they think
they may escape altogether ; or, if convicted, that their sen-
tence will not be carried out.
Lord
WODEROUSE said that the noble lord opposite had
quoted the criminal returns for 1861 as showing an
incl ease upon the preceding year ; but he should not take
one year,but rather look at the average of a number of years,
Undoubtedly there had been anincrease in 1861 over the
preceding year ; but in 1860 there had been a great decrease
upon the returns of 1859, and decrease had been the con-
stant rule back to 1857. In 1847 the committals were
22,00', whereas in 1861 they were
only 18,226. For the
five years from 1847 to 1851 the committals were 142,771
in the five years from 1852 to 1856 they were 129,335;
whilst for the last five years they amounted to only 89,121;
so that there was a continuous decrease in the number of
committals'. The great defect of the prison system was
want of uniformity. The prisoners required good food ;
but there was no occasion to supply them with luxuries.
Lord WENSLEYDALE thought the prison diet too
good. In Prussia he had visited the principal
npdristrai
which was modelled after Pentonville, and he u
there the prisoners were only allowed 21bs of meat In the
year. They received only half a pound each on each of
the four holidays in the year. That was the entire allow-
ance of flesh meat which the prisoners received.
Lord TRURO advocated the giving of more generous
diet to prisoners than to paupers, the prisoners not being
allowed the fresh air and exercise which the paupers en-
joyed.

- The Marquis of SALISBURY thought that it would be
very useful to have the committee, but they did not want to
hear many witnesses. They should examine the reports of
the prisons and of the former committees of both houses,