The Sun.
London, England, 1839-08-24 00:00:00

hoped to have the assistance of Noble at:? Leaned Friend on his right.—( Hew-, Neer, f, ()el Lord 13 oui,,,eieru,
and laughter.) The Noble and Learned Lord had not
only commented on those Bills that had passed, or were
before their Lordships, but also on those that had been de-
bated and lost. He would not. however, enter upon the
question of the Summary Jurisdiction 13:11, especially as
he felt there would be ample opportunities of discussing
that subject, because be was certain that, ere
long, some other measure, f ouded on the same
principle would be introduced, and he apprehended would
some day or other obtain the sanction of their Lordships.
The Noble and Learned Lord had also referred to the
Bill for reforming the Court of Admiralty, and he ( Lord
Melbourne) could not mention that Bill without at once
saying, he did think the rejection of the Bill by their
Lordships, in the manner in which it was rejected, was one
of the most rash and unprovoked acts of power that he
ever knew to have been exercised Ile very much
lamented that step had been taken. That Bill had
been demanded by every person who knew anything of the
subject—it was admitted to be right in its main principle,
and all the points to which the Noble and Learned Lord had
referred, if erroneous, could easily have been remedied upon
consideration and deliberation, but he could not help thinking
that the politics of the Learned Judge whose name bad been
introduced had had something to do with that rash rejection.
Well, then, the Noble and Learned Lord who had been
very liberal in his imputations of motives and objects, said
that the clause introduced into the Sale of Spirits Bill for
Ireland was intended to buy the support of a Gentleman.to
whom so much allusion was often made, on the Irish Bank.
What evidence could the Noble and Learned Lord possi-
bly have of that? He was perfectly convinced that that
was the mere fiction of the Noble and Learned Lord's
brain—a mere fancy—a more conjecture, and forming such
fancies,and forming such conjectures, was no very favourable
specimen or example of the mind in which they were formed.
With respect to the Manchester, Birmingham, and Bolton
Bills, the Noble and Learned Lord had said these Bills were
introduced in consequence of questions having arisen with
respect to the charters of those towns, and that they were pro-
duced in consequence of the bungling of Ministers the m.
selves. Why, a legal doubt being entertained with re-
spect to a charter was no proof that there had been any
bungling either in the giving or framing of that charter.
When the question with respect to those charters came
to be decided, it would be seen whether there had been
any bungling or not, but at present he thought it was
rather premature for the Noble and Learned Lord to
anticipate there had been any error. Thin the Noble
and Learned Lord had resorted to the argument which
had been so often repeated, that for all the row, for all the
tumult, and for all the disturbance in the country, the
Government had only to thank themselves. Now he
( Lord Melbourne) contended that if the people were
roused, they had been roused by the circumstances of the
times—they had been roused by these grievaeces under
which they conceived they were suffering, and more pal-
ticularly they had been roused by the unwise and obsti-
nate opposition that was given to the redress of those griev-
ances by the Noble and Learned Lord and those who acted
with him.—( Flyer, hear. )
Lord BROUGHAM then rose and said, that having
been alluded to by his Noble Friend, who had just sat
down, and having been called upon on one or two points
to come to his rescue, he could not refrain from one or two
observations. He must say, on behalf of his Noble and
Learned Friend, with whom he ( Lord B.) was far from
agreeing on many points, that it was not true to say this
was an annual exacerbation of his Noble and Learned
Friend, and that he every year regularly wound up the
Session by an attack on the Government ; because this
was only the second time, according to his Parliamentary
knowledge, that his Noble and Learned Friend had ever
brought forward this, in his ( Lord Brougham's) opinion,
most useful, wholesome, and necessary summary of the
Session.—( Hear, hear.) Useful, wholesome, and neces-
sary, as often as the Session had proved a fai,
lure—useful, wholesome, and necessary, as often as
the Government had shown its indolence or incapacity.
or both.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.) But it did appear
to him extraordinary for his Noble Friend to say what he
did, having admitted, with his characteristic frankness,
that he felt that statement particularly severe—( Laughter)
—l.e had said he had not a faint recollection of any one

sentence of the speech he came to answer, so that if
Noble Friend had only the same power of answering, and
of meeting, and of defending himself against the statement
that he had of recollecting it, he would, when he came ts
reply, have had really a sinecure. But (continued the
Noble and Learned Lord) says my Noble Friend he may
attack us—he may assail us—he may use the influe,iee o
his great authority, his great station in the country, his
great talent and public character—he may use all these
against us, and the effect may be severe. He may low:•.
us, degrade us sink us lower than wo now are in the ep,
of Parliament and the coui.try_thAt my Noble Friewi
seemed to think a possibility—( Laughter) -and I will as
sume for the present that it is possible, and barely possibl,-,
I will assume that the Government being in the lowest depth

of public estimation, a lower deep still exists.—(Conti-
nued laughter.) cit so. Yet, says my Noble Friend,
how will he raise himself—there is no chance of him rising /
—the public may turn their backs on us, Parle-meat may
distrust us, the people may scorn us, but how will the
Noble and Learned Lord, who helps to incroase, if pa...
sible, this scorn, how will he ever gain any confidence ie
the public—any trust from the public—any respect front
the people for him, and the Noble Duke, and those who act
with him?
Lord MEL BOURNE—I did not say the Noble Duke.
Lord BROUGHAM—Those who act with him. I
will show presently why he did not say the Noble Duke.
But he said, you will not gain one item of the confidence
we shall have lost. Now, what have they done since the
7th of May, in the year of grace 1839? What have
they done since to forfeit any confidence—to lose
any respect they had—to have abandoned any position in
the public mind which they have formerly been suffered ,e
occupy ? On the 7th of May they had a eeHticate
political character; not only a certificate, bin. a riwitivc
approval. It was not that the QUe,ll meant to eitae_e- h
servants, and had sent for a character :e my Nee',
Friend, but it was that my Noble Friend e gotoi„ .0
leave the service in which he then was, and be e
them a character, and rccommended l'netn to the Qe
as her men servants.—( Laughter. ) That's wha:.
Noble Viscount did on the 7'h of Moe. He never could
have dreamt of going out, if there was no otter party to
come in; he never could have recommit (I d the Crownto send for them, if he knew they had not an atom of
honour, respect, or esteem of Parliament or the people._.
Why did he recommend them to form a Government?
Why did he go out, that they might come in, and
and why did he advise his Mistress to send for them ?
The Noble and Learned Lord then proceeded to say,
that he made those observations in the first place for the
purpose of doing justice to his Noble and Learned Friend
who had been unjustly treated by the Noble Viscount, and
for the purpose of preventing it going abroad that that
was the state of party and public feeling in the country.
But be perceived the Noble Viscount enjoyed that opinion
which he had expressed exclusively, for he had not heard
a cheer from any of his Noble Friends near him. Respecting
that very sanguine, warm, and somewhat violent state-
ment of his Noble Friend, that the Tory or Conservative
party were almost reduced to a state of annihilation,
why, they had the confidence of all, but a majority in the
House of Commons. He was sorry it was so. He
wished that the Reform party were in a little more
flourishing condition than they were at present. Tney
were by no means in that flourishing, state described by
his Noble Friend, for they had but a bare existence, not-
withstanding they had the Royal favour to strengthen
them, and the tenure of office for four years.
Lord MELBOURNE —Eight years.
Lord BROUGHAM said he would come to that pre-
sently. His Noble Friend need not be under an appre-
hension that he would forget anything.—( A laugh.) But
then their Lordship's House was something in the Govern-
ment of the country, more especially as his Noble Freed
had admitted in distinct terms, which he ( Lord Brougham)
would not be disposed to do, for the purpose of one of his
arguments, that that House was a fair representative of the
people of this country.
Lor3 MELBOU RN E A favourable representative.
Lord BROUGHAM was sorry tsai communicae on
had not been made in a more confidentiel manner, for he
was afraid the Noble Viscount would lose some of his
supporters by that statement. Some of thr supportere of
the Government were constantly blaming the Lords. If
they passed a good law, it was said they were
forced to it ; if they changed their opinions it
was not a stride to reason, but a stride to fear ;
if they even altered their sentiments it was said they were
eating their own words; and thus the holding up the
Lords to ridicule in come cases, to scorn in others, and to
detestation and execration in others, was the daily food
with which the appetite of the people was pampered by
those who, out of doors, supported the Government..—
( Hear, hear.) But now, so opposite a view did he take of
the aristocracy of the country, and so candid and just a
view did he take of the attributes of their Lordships, that
he absolutely stated they were too favourable a specimen
of the people of this country. His Noble Friend was now
of the obstructive rather than of the movement party.
They were for standing still, or moving at so slow a pace
that their motion was almost imperceptible. His Noble
Friends, and those with whom they acted, had lately dis-
covered what they called the doctrine of finality---( A
laugh)—they were for keeping things in their present
state—they were for resisting further Parliaineetary Re.
form, whatever faults might be discovered—they were wily
for mending the slightest patches of their system which
might require amendment, and they were for standing
where they now were. But whether that was their system
or not their Lordships were upon it. His Noble
Friend had no reason to complain of them, nor had the
Noble Duke. They governed by deputy. Their deputy
was his Noble Friend, who had, Session by Session, been
keeping matters as they were, obstructing changes, setting
his face against ail changes; so that if the Noble and
Learned Lord and the Noble Duke had had the reins of
power in name as they had the power of the Government
in substance during these two years, exercising it by
Viceroy under them, they could not have played the Con-
servative game more perfectly to the heart's content of the
Tory party.—( Hear, hear.) Then, was it rot hard that
his Noble and Learned Friend should, at the end of the
Session, when gratified to his heart's content, take the
course which he had done ? What had they done to de-
serve all this?
Quid meruistes oves, placidum pecus,
Vita potius quam morte juvantes.
Better that they should live, better that Ministers should
survive, infinitely better, than that they should be put an
end to at once, and that the Noble and Learned Lord
opposite, and the Noble Duke, should come into
power, which they would find too hard to hold, when they
would be compelled to give the reforms and improvements
which the present men would uot give if they could, but
could not give If they would. If the Tory party were in-
stalled to. morrow, they would have the power of making
improvements in the country which the present men had
not. Their advent to power would be hailed by the friends
of improvement and liberal principles, in comp,ar.son of a
continuance of a Government, which partly could not give
if they would, but Partly had'refused to give even what they
eould: The Noble Viscount had told their Lordships
that upon one subject intimately connected with these