The Sun.
London, England, 1837-02-08 00:00:00

ask leave to introduce. I now propose that the council should
nominate three persons, whose names would be returned to the
Lord Lieutenant, of whom the Lord Lieutenant might appoint
one, or he might reject the whole. In such a case the Council
would again nominate three more—the Lord Lieutenant might
either appoint one or reject these three ; he would have the power
of rejecting the whole six, and then he would proceed to ap-
point one upon his own responsibility. Sir, I think this
right, because I think it will tend to make the administra-
tion of justice more satisfactory if the selection be made
from the returns made by the Council ; but I think again,
on the other hand, that the exercise of any right of ap-
pointment by the Crown ought to be paramount. For
instance, last year I strongly objected to the powers given to
the Revising Barristers in the division of towns into wards.
I find that I was correct ; inconvenience has arisen—an
appeal has been made to the King in Council against
the divisions which have been made by some Barristers.
The King, in Council, finding the arrangements were incon-
venient, made an order for alteration ; but the Revising Bar-
rister, when it was sent down to him, treated it with disre-
spect. The authority of the King in Council was set at nought.
I think, therefore, that where the authority of the Crown is in-
troduced at all—and I think it should be introduced in a matter
of this importance, there should be a power in the Crown, sup-
posing the Town Council not to recommend any persons whom
the Lord Lieutenant might appoint, that the Crown or the
Lord Lieutenant should ultimately have the power to select
proper persons. I think that this power will hardly be exer-
cised unless under very extraordinary circumstances, that the
six persons selected by the Town Council should, for some
obvious reasons, be unfit for the appointment.—( Loud
cheers.) These are the main alterations in this
Bill from the English Act, and the Bill of last Session. T hey
are not of great importance—they are merely such alterations
as must take place when you have to adopt a Bill in
another part of the country.--( Hear.) But, Sir, there
are other considerations connected with this subject to which
I think it necessary now to proceed, and upon which Par-
liament will ultimately have to decide. I have proposed this
Bill as a remedy for the civil grievances suffered by the people
of Ireland, with respect to their Municipal Corporations. I
have proposed it as a Bill, which in point of principle meets
with no objection, and which is only met by the objection which
I stated before ; that in spite of the Act of Union, and in
spite of the Act of Emancipation, the Roman Catholics were
still placed on a different footing. Sir, I feel it necessary on
this occasion, especially after the statements that have been
made, and some resolutions that have been entered into—l
feel it necessary to state the grounds on which the Govern-
ment in Ireland proceeded to render itself executive, and the
grounds on which we have proceeded to recommend to the Le-
gislature acts in conformity with this executive authority ; and,
Sir, I think it right to state that I consider this a question
conclusive as regards the present Administration.—( Hear,
hear.) Sir, lam sensible of the evil of bringing forward
bills—year after year—and suffering them to be de-
feated—( Hear, hear)—and to be lost without taking any
steps.--( Hear, hear.) I think it right, Sir,--we consider it
right, that Parliament and the country should have full time to
consider the nature of the Government of Ireland, and the
nature of the proposition we now make ; but I do not think that
the Government could permanently go on and be entitled to
the confidence of this House, which has not hitherto been
withheld from it.—( Hear, hear.) It would not, I say Sir,
be entitled to that confidence, if it remained suffering principles
to be adopted as to Ireland, against which we have
decided, and against which we positively protest.—( Loud cries
of Hear.) Sir, there can be no question more simple—there
can be no question more direct to bring this argument to the
test than the Bill which I shell this night propose. It is a
question not properly interfering with any religious prejudices—.
not capable of being twisted and perverted by a curious display
of figures, but it is a plain question of right—( Hear, hear)_
whether the Irish people arc fit to enjoy those rights which
you declare are conformable to the Constitution of this coun-
try, or whether you will proscribe them as unfit for that en-
joyment, and proclaim then as an inferior race among man-
kind ?—( Immense cheering.) Now, Sir, before I enter into
the question of what the Executive of Ireland has done, and the
nature of the proposition that we now make as bearing on the
conduct of that Executive, I will take leave to recur to the
name and the authority of a very great man. I must say,
that whenever I wish to look for a great authority upon the
Constitution of this country--whenever I wish to look for en-
larged principles with respect to the manner in which the
Government of this country should be carried on--I do not
refer to the period of Knox, nor to the legal statements of
Blackstone; but I refer whenever I can to the prin.
ciples and maxims of Fox. —( Loui and continued cheering.)
Mr. Fox stated in a very eloquent speech which he delivered
in the House of Commons in 1797, the principles on which be
emceited the Government of Ireland should be founded. He
stated with his usual frankness on the same occasion, that he
conceived concessions ought to be made to the people of Ire-
land. He said if he found he had not conceded enough lie
would concede more; lie said he thought the only way of
governing Ireland was to please the people of Ireland ;
and he declared in one sentence, which I will read to you, his
wish with respect to the Government of Ireland. I wish that
Hon. Gentlemen opposite possessed the same sentiments, but
lam afraid they do not. He said, "My wish' is, that the
whole `people of Ireland should -have the same princi-
pies,. the same system, the same opeeatione of Govern-
ment ; and, though it may be a subordinate considera-
tion, that all classes should have an equal chance of
emolument; in other words, I would have the whole Irish
Government regulated by Irish notions and Irish prejudices;
and I firmly believe that the more she is under Irish Govern-
ment the more will she be bound to English interests."—
( Cncers.) Sir, so deeply did Mr. Fox feel the injustice of
keeping one class of the people of this country in a different
state to another, that in the year 1805, towards the end
cf his life, he undertook to bring forward in this
House the question of Catholic Emancipation.—(Hear. )
And when he was told, by Mr. Sheridan I believe, a person in
a very high station, that his late Majesty King George the
Third was anxious that that question should be postponed, he
answered him at once, not only that he had already fixed the
day, but he said " not only would any further discussion on this
part of the subject be too late, but I must fairly own if it were
not, I could not be persuaded from doing that public act,
which, of all others, it will give me the greatest satisfaction
and pride to perform. No past events of my political
life ever did, and no future one ever can give me such
pleasure." That was the way in which \lr. Fox spoke
when he was asked to postpone bring leg forward the
Emancipation, and by the extracts I have read, I think the
House will see that he intended, not that it should be an Act
placed on the Statute Book, and left there, but that it should
be an Act of Parliament for the rule and guide and conduct of
the Government towards Ireland, and by that means, he said,
you will bind the people of Ireland more firmly to English in-
terests.—(Great cheers.)—l maintain that Lord Mulgrave
has acted upon the principles laid down by Mr. Fox.—
( Cheers.)—He has endeavoured to do that which I must
say, has not been fully done before—( Hear, hear)—to carry
into every part of the Irish Government the spirit of impar-
tial justice.—( Cheering.) When I say it has not been done
before, much as I admire the character of Lord Mulgrave, I
am not going to place him, or those who sit here, above any
Governors or Ministers who governed Ireland before ;but I will
say that while Lord Melbourne governed Ireland with the most
upright, and impartial, and with the most generous intentions,
he has had this advantage, that his Government has been one,
and united.—( Great cheering.) He had the advantage of a
Chief_Secretary—( Hear, and cheers)—of an Attorney-Gene-
ral, all acting in complete accordance with his views ; and, I
will venture to say, that although the office of Attorney- Ge-
neral has been held by three different gentlemen, since
Lord Mulgrave assumed the Government of Ireland—
( Hear, hear, hear)—that if the Earl of Haddiugton had
succeeded at the Castle, not one of them would have remained
to act under a Tory Administratiou.—( Cheers and laughter
from the Opposition.) Sir, this is a question of very con-
siderable importance, because 'there ie tench in the Govern-
ment of Ireland which depends on the details of these offices,
that no Lord Lieutenant with the best and fairest possible
intentions can be aware of what are the precise evils, and
of the exact nature of the remedies to be applied. I
will illustrate this by a reference to the conduct pursued
by Baron O'Loghlen when Attorney-General for Ireland.
He found that when jurors were called it was the custom to
set men aside, not because they were prejudiced itt the case ;
not because they were known- to be connected with or favour.
able to the accused; but because they were of the Roman Ca-
tholic religion, or, being Protestants, .were of liberal political
opinions.—(Cheers.) -that is preyed by a letter of Mr.
O'Loghlen, which I lately received, and in which
it is stated that the discontinuance and complete alteration
of that system has been found to produce the most beneficial
effects, to be attended with no fewer convictions, and cal-
culated to ensure a confidence in the impartial administiation
of the laws. —( Hear.) Sir, I think this is a question of the
very greatest importance, because, when we consider the
want of confidence that has existed, I will not say for
years, but for centuries, in the administration of justice in
Ireland, one cannot but think that when men stood in the
courts of justice, and saw persons of respectable character set
aside on account of their religion or their opinions in politics,
it was natural to infer that they would not be justly treated
with, and that the verdict would not be that of twelve honest
men, but of twelve selected partizans.—( Hear, hear.) Mr.
O'Loghlen, therefore, did a very great service to the
administration of justice by the rule laid down that those chal-
lenges were not to be persevered in, and it was only on ac-
count of persons being connected with or prejudiced in favour
revailed has
h
of the party that the challenge of the Crown was to be per-
mitted. Sir, there was another innovation introduced by Mr.
O'Loghlen, which was of the greatest importance, as
eerd of affecting the Municipal
faction Municipal Corporations.
fighta
whichhaveEverybody
in Ireland—of the blood which has been spilt, and the fierce
and desperate battles that have taken place between one party
and another ; and it is represented, and I believe with truth,
that there was a great indifference with respect to the prose.
cution of these offences. There were Magistrates, who acting
upon the old maxim of divide et i'npera, thought better to
allow them to assuage their bloody dispositions upon those oc-
casions, than to put a stop to them, and use the power of
the law for their prevention: Sir, I must say that, in my
view, nothing is more mistaken. There is nothing more
dreadful, nothing more iniquitous, than allowing those mur-
derous scenes that were going on in that country. There
is nothing more likely to tend to the subversion of mo-
rality in that country, or to encourage the effusion
of blood. It was an observation in the history of' the
Florentine Republic with respect to the attempted assassina-
tion of Lorenzo de Medici, that assassination failed because
the person appointed to do the work was a priest, and not used
to scenes of the kind, and that he was substituted in the room
of a soldier, who was also one of the persons engaged in the
conspiracy, for no other reason than that the latter had not been
appointed actually to commit the assassination. No doubt
there was a great deal in the fact of men being accustomed