The Sun.
London, England, 1806-04-17 00:00:00

THE: NA 8011,0 F RCO r's DEBTS.

. .
Arrell?..-/NC/S, before he prOceeded to offer the
Motion of which he 1-. ad given notice, begged to put
to the Hon. Gentleman behind him (Mr.Hobhouse)
a question or two, the answers to which might pro-
bably save sonu trouble. ;As it appeared that an
- agreeMent had been entered into between the Di-
reelors of the India Company and the creditors of
the Nabob of Arcot, in consequence of which a
Conenissinn had been appointed wished to.
know who were-the persons forming that Commis-
sion, and by whom they are to be paid ? Not hav-
ing been-able to attend the House on Monday, when
the Hon. Gentleman to whom lie referred brought
forward his Bill, (he Was under the necessity of ap-
plying for more information upon the snbje& than
perhaps other Gentlemen required.. He wished- to
hear it accounted for why the Hon. Member shbuld
have been the person to bring forward this measure,
particularly as he understood him to' have stated,
that he accepted the, office very unwillingly; and but
yielded to the importunity of' others.' .
Mr:J-10BHOUSE- was ready not merely to an-
swer tie Hon. Gentleman's questions, but to atlbrd
every. informatiOn. iii his power upon the subject to
which these questions referred.. If, however, the
Hon. Gentlenian had consulted the Papers on the
Table, he would have fouhd this question'utmeCes-
sary. For in them it appeared. that the Com Mi-
ssioners were a, Mr. 'Horner, who was, appointed in
room of Mr: Ityder; a Member of that' House, who
had some time since resigned, in consequence of in-.
disposition ; also Mr. Coburne, and he himself (Mr.
Hobhouse); _Those. Commissioners, from the &ed-
it would be seen, were appointed. by the IpdiaCom-
pany, in concurrence with the 'Crediters,and accord-
ing 'to a, clause hi that aeed, the remuneration for
their trouble was to be settled upon the same prin-
ciple as Parliamentary Commissions usually were.
Mr. EttetiVelS confessed, that' from the infor-
mation which he had just received from the Hon.
Gentleman, he was under amistake, for he had-sop-
posed that Mr. Yoi'dyee was. at the head of this
Commission ; but he now found that that Gentle-
man was at the head of the Creditors. There was,
something in this fransaaion altogether which was
well deserving of, and-to which he begged the par-
ticular attention of the House. Why it should have
found its way into the-House at all, but still more.
why it was entertained, why it obtained a footing,
he could account for on no satisfadory ground. Per-
haps it wris owing to the operation of interest, but -
sure sure he was that there was something very like a•
contrivance about it. , For himself he could atlirm
that he never had an idea that any such proposition
was in conteMplatien until he heard of the Mo-
tion, just before the recess, for leave- to bring
in the Bill. -He knew nothing of a Commit-
teoiitting upon the snlijea;-, and there: were many
others as well -as he whom the knowledge of that
'Circumstance had entirely escaped till the time he

alluded tn. , Then as to The subsequent course of the
Honourahle4Gentleman---Lthe verb; ' day after the
recess, the first upon which the 'Report o the
Committee was deliverable, the- Honourable 6en
tleman came foNvard before he. (Mr. Francis)
W 64.3 venture tO'Say five 'Members of the House'
had. read the RepOtt, -and. proposed 'a Motion
grounded - upon.' it. This mode , of proceeding no
one could deny to be rather precipitate upon a sub-
' jea-pifiriefilallylif m nett' IMpor tance: - To obtain
a little moredeliberation as toa circumstance which
Gentlemen were much mistaken-if-they suppOsed
of inconsiderable interest, was the motive. which in -
sciticed him to 011 the'attention of the House to the
Motions with which' he meant to. conclude. That
'all the Presidencies in. India were in great distreSs
-was notorious. The House. had the authority of
'Lord Cornwallis for believing that the Presidency of
,Madras was most seriously embarrassed—and that
this, with the ether Presidencies, was running in
debt as fast as money could -be had to borrow.
—lnto these general distresses, however, he did
not at present propose' to enter, nor should he
go into any discussion about the general state of
-India. But he would -confine himself to theparti-
,
cular 'objefthe had-in view, which, he wished' it to
be understood, had no conne6tion with any other
question respe&ing India which: was4efore the
House.
.Lord Wellesley had, he belieed,.nothing
whatever to do-with it. It referred principally to a
consideration of our assets in India, and how far
these. assets were 'coMpetent to meet the claims
upon them. For it was tnaterial for Parliament al-
ways to bear in mind that what. the India Company
could not diicharge would ultimately fall `upon the
Finances of this Country.. Therefore it behoved the
House carefully tisexamine every claiin upon the
resources of that ompany. He lamented that
More of .His Majesty's Ministers were not present
at the discussion .of a question of this nature, and
those who were present did not give to the tines-
tion the attention which it deserved—[there was at
the time some conversation upon the Treasury Bench.T
Still, however, he ,would persist in his purpose—
and he-promised those Gentlemen that they would„
speedily feel that this subject must-be attended to.
At all eVents beWould not fail to attend to
For he was not one of those ,who could.' be sunk
or broken down by the desertion or inconsistency of
any set of: men. 'ReVerting to the subject to which
he was about to :litre& the noticeof the House, the
Hon. Gent. remarked upon the equiyoeal charaaer
of these frequent claims :upon the Nabob of Arcot.
A great deal- of such dainis had,been already paid.
After the'payment-of several millions (Ave or six)
it was naturally supposed tliat no more debts were to
be heard of.. But stillsome pretended creditors started
up. If 'such pretensions-were attended to he really
believed', that the whole Ilevenue of the Carnatic
Would be Ityaifficient. to answer them ; and if not,
then they must:come upon"this Country : he there-
fore cautioned the Hoase to pause. upon a transac-
tion, Of the eharader of-which scarcely any one who
heard him Could be wholly ignorant ; for every one
must remember teething of the Nabob of Areot's-
debts—it was• a tole:ably notorious topic. That
distinguished ' Steestnan (Mr. Burke) had many
_years since yei 'properly stated his opinion, that a
c,inbile,;.ei of evidence served to skew that sums
had be n distributed for a course of years in the'
:pane of the old Nabob of Arcot, to the servants of
the East India Company, in a most scandalous man-
ner ; and that there was strong reason to suspect,
that most part of the debts demanded were wholly.
fiaitious. And that-great Orator showed, that, even
if these debts were really due, they were, from their.
aMount,.calculated to excite alarm, as the affairs of
the Company were so distressed as to be unequal to
their liquidation. This the House would recolle6t
- was in the year 1784, when the sivation of the India
Company was almost prosperity itself, compared to
what it was ati-prisent. But even then (as Mr.
Nuke remarked), the Company's servants were in
affluence, while the Company itself was very much
embarrassed. Xet althOugh such was the case, al-
' though the Company's servants were possessed of
no less- than ten millions, still their claims of three
millions of debt 'upon our subsidiary Princes were
paid off by order of the Board of-Controul, against
the strongest remonstrances of the Court of Direc-
tors, seconded by the opinion of Lord Macartney.
This served to spew what might be done through
the interest of individuals, notwithstanding the dis-
tress of the Company's affairS; and as being very
closely upon the present question, he requested
Gentlemen to look at the Speech of Mr. Burke, to
which he referred, and which, independent of its
relevancy upon this occasion, must be read with
pleasure by every man of taste ; for certainly among
all the produElions of ancient and modern elo-
luence, nothing could be found worthy to be put in
comparison with it. The Hon. Gentleman, ad-,
vertmg to the Bill in, progress through the House,.
observed, that • it was not accompanied by any spe-
cification whatever of the amount or nature of the
debts to- which it was meant to apply. This speci-
fication it was his wish to obtain. Seeing that so
many millions had been already paid on this score,
and that the more-these claims were paid, the more
they seemed to grow, he desired at once to ascertain
their precise extent : that knoWledge attained, ques-
tions would. then arise
,Whether such claims were
Made by' bona fide creditors or not whether any,
and which of them, should be paid ? Whether, in
a word, under all the circumstances, that money'
should be granted to stitch claimants-which ought
to. be applied to the support of our Army and-Navy ?
That no equitable demands were-to be found among
those, brOught forward, he was not prepared to say.
But before any were acceded to, the House should
be made acquainted with the whole amount. It
would be unsafe' to proceed without such- know-
ledge; for if a 'comparatively small sum were. at
'first, granted-, it would be difficult to say how far-
the House might be led upon the principle of that
grant. -It might not- be known when to stop, and.
therefore Ire thought, it best to make a stand in limine:
The Hon. Gentleman -took occasion to appeal to the
'House and the Country upon the want - of assistance
he had experienod 'from those who ought
.fa be
forward, in Consistency, to support his endeavours
to nroctkrea full investigation of the Affairs of India: -
In this instance particularly there were many for
whose presence and co-operation'hFhad a right to ,
loot‘; among these was thereSpiMble Member for
Nt.rwich-(Nlr. W. Smyth), -whemlie did nOt then
see in his place, and from w-holm inw.h useful in-
fiageation could be bad, upeu the subje4 of..lnctai

There wts,anotiier distinguished' pe :on %,'soso
lie was intitled to expea—he'ineant the Treasurer
of the Navy -(Mr. Sheridan). In regretting the ge-
neral absence of that Right Hon. Gentleman, he
was sure he only expressed the common feeling of
the'. House.. He lamented- his absence for many
'reasons, but principally on account of the loss which
• the cause of India sustained, in consequence. He
most, particularly wished that this Right Hon. Gen-
tlernan were more frequently.. visible in his place in
that House; and as heliad not the pleasure of seeing
him there or elsewhere, he hoped that his wish
Would be conveyed to. him, and induce him to at-
tend. He trtisted•that the Right Hon. Gentleman's •
beComipg a Minster was not to deprive that House
of the advantage and pleasure which his abilities
were capable of affording. The house had, unfor-
tunately, for a. considerable time but very seldom
seen the light of his countenance. But it was to
be expe&ed that such absence would not long con-
tinue. He could not suffer himself to apprehend
that the Right Hon. Gentleman would long decline
to advocate the cause of justice. No ; his mind
and his feelings 'were too strongly attached to that
cause to refuselthis -aid, and his powers to serve it
were still undiminished; for he would not believe :•
that the volcano- of the Right Hon. Gentleman's
genius could yet be
,burned out. After repeating
his sincere reg.-et, for the absence of Mr. Sheridan,
because he highly respeCted his talents and integrity,
and because he would much value his assistance.
the Hon. Member concluded with moving for an.
Account of all Monies which have been.paid to the
private Creditors of the Nabqtz,of theCarnatie since
,the,_passing of the Akt of the 04-th of his present
Majesty, containing the names of the individuals to
whom paid, and die periods at which the several
payments were .made, distinguishing,
.the several
classes of Debts, namely, the Register, the Cavalry
Road, and the Debts contraCted in the year 1777 ;
,also distinguishing the principal from the interest of
such Debts. The Hon.-Member added, that it was
the pratlice generally, to add the interest to theprin-
cipal of these claims ; and this was one great cause
of, their enormous accumulation. To shei.v-that-the
pit:relied hedescribed had prevailed, the Hon. Mem-
ber referred to the last .Speech of the Noble Lord.
(Castlereagh), which that Noble Lord had got print- •
upoit the subjeCt of lpdian finance.
Mr. PAULL, in seconding the Motion, can!..ron-
ecl the HOUSe,to beware how they sanetioned the
.princip!e • upon which the Bill. of the Right Hon.
Gentleman (Mr."l-lobhouse) was founded, as; if that
sprinciPlevvere established, claimants would, no doubt,
immediately come forward for above the
.alledged to be due in the same way from other native
-PrinceS in India.
• Mr; W. KEENE supported the Motion, and
warmly applauded the conduct of the Moyer. Such
Debts as those under consideration were, for the
.most part, he believed-, contraeled in a very scan-
dalous manner ;-- particularly by the servants of the
Company accepting extravagant presents 'from the
Native Princes.. That such a cuStom'ence prevailed
• was quite notorious; and the Princes thought them-
selves in some-degree bound to conform to, it as a
necessary preminni to -proteelion.: SuCh appeared
to be the case when Lord Macartney, as Governer
" of Madras, refused 40,0001: which was offered as a
present by the Nabob'of Arcot. " This Hon. Gen-
tleman dwelt much on the misery experienced by
the poorer natives of India:
Mr. ADDINGTON did not rise to objeet to the
Papers -moved- for, but to say that he. sincerely re-
joiced to find- the Hon.. Mover was not disposed, to
. persist in the declarationS which he had so repeated-
ly made, of his resolution to abandon..the azfairs of
India. That he still manifested a becoming per-
severance in the cause which he had so long fol-
lowed, he was happy to perceive, because, from the
Hon. Gentleman's extensive information, and ability
to apply, his exertions must be of the most mate-
rial service, while his zeal must serve to quicken the
exertions of others.—The Right Hon. Gentleman
vindicated the objet of the Bill propoSed by his
Hoo. Friend (Mr. Hobhonse) ; the only objeCt of
which was to enable a Commission to act efticiently,
which was appointed by the India Coinpany and
the Creditors, for the purpose of separating the frau-
dulent from the just claims. As to the reason
which urged his Hon, Friend to bring forward the
measure, he was able to state that his Hon. Friend
did manifest great reluaance to propose it, as he telt
himself as one of the Commissioners to be in some
degree a party interested. But these scruples were
overcome by others, who knew that his Honourable
Friend's ability and information was best qualified
to arrange and carry through such a proposition.—
The Right_ Hon. Gentleman defended his Hon.
Friend' rom the.charge of precipitancy, by referring
to his statement on Monday, that if there were any
who wished for farther time to examine
the Report of the Committee upon which his pro-
- position was grounded, he would be willing to post-
pone the introduction of it. That his .Honourable
Friend would consent to any delay tbat might be
required by the Honourable Mover,foi the purpose
of such information even now, he had no doubt
whatever-. • ----
Lord CASTLEREAGH' expressed his convidion
that very many fraudulent claims were made upon,
this subject. But he thought the best 'mode of frus-!
trating such pretensions would be to arm the Com-
missioners' appointed to examine them with ade-!
,quate powers, as the Bill referred to in the course of
the debate proposed. 'The' Noble .LOrd• deprecated
the idea of pleading any embarrassments -to which_
the India Company might be subject, as a reason for
• refusing the settlement of their just claims.
• Mr.'Serjeant-BESl'ohserved, that the 'deed for
the ,settlement of the, claims under consideration was
so contrived As, to hold, put. the prospe& of doing
little, if any ;thing, . for those who had equitable
ciAinis, And Of doing 66. much for those whose
.Claims werefraudultut.e..-Many of the•demandgun-
der consideration were,-,he
.contended, completely
illegal;as they referred. to sums lent against a post-
-tive•Mt of Parliarnent.
./1/r.llo.4.ll9as.&::derfied, -that he was guilty of
any,. precipitancy. itt .toe uatroouetton of the Bill al-
' laded to, as the Report.of the Committee which re-
c-Otturieuded it was Print and circulated on the
:Friday preceding the day:he brought' this Bill for-
ward... The Debts now claimed were,. he oh-
serVed„ contra6led before the At of 17g7„ to. which
- the Learned Gentleman who spoke last alluded,
Mid:therefore net within the proiisions'Of that Jaw.
• Ater a few More-:remarks by' Mr. Serjeap't R.,: or

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