The Sun.
London, England, 1839-07-12 00:00:00

PNENIINT EDITION„

Hon. Gentleman had laid on the table a Report from the
Council of Lower Canada. It stated that the Governor 1.!
and Council should impose taxes for local purposes, such
as the police force, watching, lighting, and paving the
streets, railroads, canals, highways, &c., &c. He would
refer also to the Bill proposing an union of both provinces.
In the 44th clause the precise objects of municipal le-
gislation were specified in the manner he Sir R. Peel
had already stated. If the Noble Lord had proposed si-
milar powers, or even a great extension of similar powers,
he ( Sir R. P.) should net object to them. But if the
present Bill were to pass, Municipal objects would be very
different next year from what they were this year, for then
Municipal objects would be included within the compre-
hensive signification of whatever local improvements the
Governor and Council should consider to be for the benefit
of the district or borough in concurrence with two-third: of
the inhabitants. What was the sum permitted to be an- t
nually expended in local improvements since 1832 ?
Mr. LABOUCHERE-40,0001.
Sir ROBERT PEEL—The inhabitants would
under this Bill be relieved from the forty thou-
sand pounds for those specific purposes ; but then the
Governor and Council would be empowered to expend
any sum of money not exceeding the revenue of the pro-
vince. He ( Sir R. Peel) would never consent to allow
her Majesty's Government to confer such unlimited and
undsfined power. However, let the Right Hon. Gentle-
man specify the objects, and specify the necessity for such
power, and he would not oppose it. To be sore it was
said that the duration of the proposed powers would Le
limited to the year 1842 ; but such a limitation only
would not satisfy him. Let him provide as extensively as
he could show it to be r.ecessary for lighting, watching,
and paving towns, for an effective police force, for inter-
nal improvements, to be repaid by the tolls produced
prom them, and he (Sir R. P.) would not object that
the Governor and Council should be empowered to impose
rates for those rates concurrently with the good will of the
majority of the inhabitants. He ( Sir R. P.) should be
also happy to support the giving of any powers which
should be shown and. be calculated to encourage the ad-
vancement and the investment of capital in the provinces.
He was satisfied to agree to any power either for the ad-
vaecement of local improvements, or for the suspension of
the Habeas Corpus Act, for the maintenance of the tran-
quillity of the province. But this was a temporary Go-
vernment, and he would never consent to give the charac-
ter of a permanently arbitrary character to each a measure
—a measure giving a Governor and Council the power of,
unlimited taxation without reference to the British Par-
liament, and without a specification of the objects for !chid'
the money was to be raised. Why, under this Bih,. a
Governor might raise as much as 300,0001. When Lot d
Durham complained that he should not have the
means of paying certain officers, and proposed a
plan for that purpose, he referred to the Imperial
Parliament to check or confirm his suggestions,
but the present measure proposed to vest unlimited power
in the Council. Under the powers now proposed to be
invested in the Governor and Council, the whole revenue
of the colony might he mortgaged, and the new municipal
officers would find themselves in the situation of having to
raise money to pay the public debt incurred under the
legislation of the Gpvcrnor and Council. The fourth
clause in the Bill proposed to give the Governor arsd Coun-
cil the power of repealing, suspending, or altericg any
Act passed respecting the law of tenure in Lower Cars ads.
There was a margina note in the Bill, which showed ibe
latent intention of the measure. If, for example, Montrea.l
had been referred to, and a case bad been made out to-
show that enlarged powers were called for the improve-
ment and protection of that place, he (Sir R. Peel)
should not object to it. Nor should he object if any other
loca;.ity had been specifically adduced. But after what the
Right. Hoe. Gent. bad stated respecting the connection of
the Roman Catholic religion in connection with the law of
tenure, he thought that he should hesitate about conferring
such extraordinary power. The third clause gave unli-
mited power of taxation, and the fourth power to suspend
the Habeas Corpus Act.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL—This had been
already done in Upper Canada.
Sir R. PEEL could not venture himself upon any mo-
dification of the clauses, for he bad not the necessary ,in-
formation; but he trusted her Majesty's Government woulei
take the sense of the House upon so important a question. ,
Sir C. GREY explained.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that whatever the views and
objects of the Right Hon. Baronet were, it must be remem-
bered that in December, 1832, he seemed to have no other
view than to subvert British authority in the Canadas, and
also what was called the British party there, and if her Ma.
jesty's Government had taken the advice of the Right '
Hon. Gentleman the most dangerous results would have '
followed. He (Lord John Russell) was, therefore, not
likely to be diverted from his course by the remonstrances
of the Right Hon. Baronet. He did not want to throw
any blame upon the Right Hon. Gentleman for any delay
that might have taken place in legislating upon this' ques-
tion, but he must also say that the questions put by She
Right Hon. Baronet in the early part of the Session la.
not, either in his ( Lord J. Russell's) mind, or in the minds of
others, any tendency to hasten legislation on this subject.
His own view of the subject had been modified by the
decision on the Jamaica question, for it appeared to him
that it would be the greatest misfortune if on a subject of
this kind a measure were precipitately forced on to a party
divisien; for though in this country party feeling did not
interfere with the authority of the Executive, it must not
be forgotten that in a Colony so distant from the seat of
Government the supremacy of British authority must in-
timately be shaken by making questions of Colonial policy
dependant on party divisions. With this view the
Government certainty were not anxious to precipitate
a decision on the subject, upon which unanimity
was most desirous. It could not be admitted—it was not
denied, by the Right Hon. Baronet opposite—.that this
subject was one of the most difficult to legislate upon.
The Government had come to the opinion that, upon the
wholo, the project of a union afforded the best prospect of
a happy result—but they were nut insensible to the diffi-
culties atteeslant on the proposition. Legislation, with
respect Canada must be on one of two principles. Either
on the principle of Mr. Pitt in 1791—0 f separating the
two races ; or on the principle of uniting them. On the
first principle, could we prevent, in a French province a
considerable British population, who would ever be in
collision with the French—and as the French tenures
were connected, with the Roman Catholic Establishment—
how could the Supreme Power be constituted? If
despotically, no one could expect that the Canadas would
long acquiesce in it—they would naturally ask, and if
perseveringly, doubtless would obtain, a Representative
Assembly, which would revive the difficulties between the
French and the English races—a French majority—an
English minority, in the same Chamber; the English mi-
nority bent on improving the province, and promoting Bri-
tish interests—the French majority discountenancing every
change. The best course would be, therefore, to consti-
tute, if possible a united legislature, in which the British
interests would have the predominant influence, and which
might gradually lay the foundation of a flourishing and
prosperous colony. As regarded the present Bill, he did
not see that it by any means countenanced the inference
that it would lay the foundation of a permanent Govern-
ment by the authority it temporarily established, or thin: it
would in any way obstruct that project of union which must
be the ultimate object. The Right Hon. Baronet spoke
of the clause allowing the composition of taxes for munici- •
pal purposes, and called the terms vague, but they were
the terms used by the Special Council ; and when it was
observed that Lord Durham had reported that the police of
Quebec, for instance, was in a disgraceful state, surely
there could be no difficulty in ascertaining to what pur-
poses the claim would apply. But if it were said that only
when a particular want was pointed out it might be met,
that was most certainly a large and liberal system of legis-
lation ; for in one month it might be reported that a par-
ticular street in a town required paving or lighting, and in
the next month another street might be squally in want
of improvement. So, with respect to the poorer of
making regulations affecting the tenures not to be bioding
till sanctioned by Parliament: it was true that it had
been originally intended to confine this to Montreal, bat it
had been deemed more for the public good that it should
be general. With regard to the 4th clause, it was re-
quired in consequence of the doubts suggested with re-
ferrence to the Habeas Corpus Act in this country and in
Canada. Most unfortunately it happened that the news-
papers had gone out to Canada with the account that two
Noble and Learned Lords in this country had expressed a
doubt on Sir W. Follett's proviso, whether persons could
be detained, on charges of conspiracy or treason, without an
instant trial, and that two of the Judges, in consideration,
had acted on that doubt, to set which at rest was most de-

sirable for the security of the colony. He (Lord J. Russell)
was not disposed to be vexatiously tenacious as to particular
clauses; but the Right Hon. Baronet had not stated what
alterations he required. However he (Lord J. Russell)
had nothing to complain of in the course which the :Right
Hon. Baronet had on this occasion taken as inimical to
that just authority, without which the interests of the
Crown cannot be upheld in the colony.--( Hear, hear.)
Sir R. PEEL explained. He did not wish to limit the
pip-poses for which taxation was to be allowed to zerticu—
lar towns, &c., lighting and paring, for example, might be
presumed to be required by all.
Mr. C. BULLER could not see the propriety of look-
ing to the particular clauses in the Bill. He argued, how-
ever, in the objection to the 4th clause,. and wished it to
be observed that the question of tenures was differently
situated in Montreal from the rest of the cclony. He was
sorry the Government had not adopted dine plan recom-
mended by the Special Council. He ( Mr. Buller) did
not concur in the oljections made by the Right Hon. Baro-
net to the 3d chute and the increased power of taatiort. The

objections, if tenable, would apply with greater force to
any other colony than the colony of Lower Cltkut:da.
The revenue of Lower Canada was 140,0001., the expeik-e
of the Government was 60,000 L, the remainder went
towards the improvement of the colony.—( Hear, hear.)
He understood that cheer from the Right Hon. Baronet
and the Noble Lord—they would any, if you have so much
money, why do you ask for an additional power to raise
money ? But there was the expense of providing a police,
enforcing the performance of the quarantine, &c.
Another thing wanted in Lower Canada was a Re-
gistry-office, and there were many other reasons
why the Government of the colony should have
the power of raising money by taxation. He
would advert to the question more immediately under
the consideration of the House. The Hon. Baronet ap-
peared to have had an ardent desire for legislation for
Canada, but had always been prevented. He was sorry
his Hon. Friend had brought forward his mot: on at a period
of the Session when it was impossible it could have any
practical effect, and when any vote that might be given
would be merely an expression of opinion ; for it appeared
to him that they were inflicting great injury on Canada by
the course that had been pursued—giving indica-
tions of change, but not acting on them at all.
The consequences of the delay which had taken place
were very mischievous, for the general impression was•that
Parliament, having considered the case, thought no remedy
necessary, or else that they could find no remedy. One
advantage of the debate to-night had been that the Noble
Lord had avowed the true reason of the delay—(Hear)—
namely, that the cause of the inaction of the Government
was the state of parties in this country.—(Hear.) He did
not think this was calculated to rase the House in the

opinion of the country, or to raise the hopes of the people

of Canada as to any definitive settlement of their sffairs.
He could not throw the whole blame on the Government,
as the Hon. Baronet near him had don e, because some of
it rested with the 800. Gentlemen opposite, for their
; view of political morality was the mr,st extraordinary he
' had ever heard of. They thought they bad no right to
suggest a better plan than that of the Ministers, end
; that they had discharged their duty when they had
exercised their perverse ingenuity in thwarting every
iplan proposed.—(Cries of " riear, hear.") He blamed
the Government because they had not met these factious
feelings in a limper way by bringing forward good men.
sures, and then trusting to the feeling of the country. The
Right Hon. Baronet opposite had taken a larger view i
than was usual of the institutions of Canada. He (Mr.
1 Buller) was aware of the difficulty which must exist in
making such a change as Lord Durham had proposed, but
no one could den!" that there was a radical vice to which
a sweep.ng and poompt remedy ought to be applied. But
the difficulties w'uich existed there were hot peculiar to
those colonies. There was not one colony in which the
present system. had not caused a stoppage of the machine
of Government, and there must be some common vice for
all this miachtief. Let them compare these states with the
' neighbouring states of the union. There was not any-
thing in which the British provinces had not an advantage
over the states of the union, and yet if they were compared
with respect to civilization, tranquillity, content, fegisla-
; tion, and the 'administration of justice, every Englishman
must blush rat the deplorable inferiority which characterised
the proviroces under the British crown. The vice was
this, that whereas in the Union the people manage their
(ran affa'ars, ourcolonial system excluded them. This was
the vice which Lord Durham had proposed to remove. His
object; also was to settle the quarrel between th.e races.
The, great object and principle of the union that had been
preeposed—its great purpose was to form these ill-used and
Misgoverns I colonies into one united community, having
suflieient intelligence and power to be entrust,- a with the
,management of its own affairs while the ccnneatien with the
British empire subsisted, and if any unfortunate event
should cause a separation, that they rnig'at be enabled to
defend themselves and maintain their ;independence.—
( Hear, hear.) Ile was not one of tiro ,e who thought that
colonies were of no use, and that they avere only to be go-
verned by force. He thought they avere of much more
importance in opening resources .ti the superabundant po-
pulation of the mother country, and of new markets
for her manufacturing industay. If these great nod im-
portant objects were kept in view and acted apon, he did
not see how the colony you'd ever come into collision
with the mother country. After all he had seen of the
government of these colonies, and all the evidence he
could collect, it virpeared to him that that was the only
sure and l'gitionte way of attaching them, as it was the
Only 'neves of securing harmony, tranquillity, and cffiaient
Govern ,nena,_( Hear, hear.) With respect to the remark
of the, Right Hon. Baronet about apprehended insurrec-
tieratry movements on the Canadian frontier, his own ob-
-1 P.
-a-Nation had led him (Mr. C. Buller) to believe that
I there need be no apprehension of invasion from the
American frontier, although ho believed, from all that he
had heard, that there was some probability of insurrection
in the province of Lower Canada, although from the total
want of concert, unity of purpose, and of numbers of the
disaffected, such an undertaking could only be looked
upon as little short of madness. He had been
abeseal for defending the American Government, but
he . persisted in maintaining that they had acted
'D perfect good faith with the British Government.—
' t Hear, hear.) Considering the nature of the frontier
and the population residing on it, he believed it was im-
possible for the American Government to prevent occa-
sional incursions. The American Government, however,
had good right to complain that while they were required
to take measures for t):,e preservation of neutrality along
the frontier, the British Government was, to a great ex-
tent, neglecting is own duty.—( Hear, hear.) He con-
fessed he saw with great regret that the plan for the for-
Mation of a union of the two provinces, and the settlement
of the Government on a permanent basis had not been
taken up with proper vigour and determination, be-
cause he believed that the union of these two, or rather
he shoold say, of all the British North American pro-
vince% was the only means of establishing their frau-
quility and securing their independence.—( Cheers. ) With
respect to the Noble Earl's Report to which allusion had
been made, he fully concurred in every word of it, and he
was satisfied that it would henceforth become the text-book
of colonial Government over all the wide possessions of
that coientry.—( Hear, and cheers.)
Mr LABOUCHERE would not detain the House by
any lengthened remarks from doing that nhich was the
Particular business of the day—namely, proceeding to the
FAisideration of the details of the Bill in Committee. He
*elieved that no essential difference existed in principle
;11.Ftwcen Hon. Members on that and the other side of the
louse- There was a general impression that it was their
duty to provide immediately and without delay for that
which was a necessity of the most urgent nature in Lower
Canada, namely, to take care, while mitigating the spirit
*of the arbitrary Government they had been compelled to
pose, that they should not run the risk of imposing any
practical grievance upon the Province by disabling the
Legislature front carrying into effect the necessary mea-
sures . for the improvement of the Colony, and which
was calculated to give a stimulus to the industry of
its inhabitants. With reference
to thej:il a n
woafspancoinfiecatkoret that had been proposed, he believed there
employment mid industry, and no measure so likely to pia•
duce a political calm as that which would induce them to
turn their attention to well considered plans of commercial
rdagricuhural improvement. Let the House consider that it
asirnpossible to pass any measure of police, or for the pro-
/notion of private enterprise, until additional powers were
ceeferred. upon the Government by the interference
of that bot Rouse. Ho entreated Honourable Members, as
.sh sides appearod to be agreed upon the general prin-
ciple,
to put a:o end to the present state of things,
w
ith regard to the revenue of Lower Canada, his Hon.
Friend (C. Buller), who occupied in that House, on Cana-
dian affroirs, a kind of semi-official character—( A laugh) Ia I
made a, greet mistake in estimating it at 140,000/. a year.
In 180.'2 it was 153,0001. In 1837 it had fallen to 92,0001.
and in. 1838 it was Tao more than 95,000/.—a diminution
not towing to any decrease of consumption on the part of
the inhabitants, bv,t to the substitution of articles menu
factured by theanselves - for commodities exported from
this country. Now the amount of the civil expenditure
was 60,0001 annually, leaving only 35,000/. for the local

. .
purposes— prArposes, let it be recollected, not merely of
public imprsevements, as canals and railroads, but all those
itnumera'ele objects met by local assessments: among
others, fee i•mportant objects of education. Was it then to
be wondered at that Lord Durham and Sir John Colborn,
..
shoal represent everything in the country as starved?
and was it unwise to give to the Governor and Council the
g,,neral power of meeting these wants? To attempt to
r'.eprive them specifically would be useless, and would be to
rem the risk of omitting those most necessary and impor.
taut. So with respect to tenures; could there be any
objection to vesting the Governor in Council with the
Power of framing such measures as might appear bene-
ficial, coupling that power with the restriction requiring
the kteovsledge and sanction of Parliament; thus show.
ing the
caution with which it was conferred. Let it
never be overlooked that the most pressing evil in the
cwel?nY was the disturbance of that confidence in propel ty
pe pleb it was so all important to preserve.—( Hear.)
(vele were not able to invest their money—they had no
sec urity for their investments.—( Hear, hear.) Was it
" fe—was it wise—was it politic to continue this
sYstem for another year ?—( Hear, hear, hear.) Ile
was aware of the meaning of that cheer—that it was the
duty of the Government during this Session of Parlia-
nlent to have brought forward some measure for the per-
i,nanent and efficient settlement of Lower Canada.—( Hear,
iear.) He did not deny that it would have effected im-
ble°sQ good, and during the early part of the Session it had
°ea "the anxious desire of the Govetnment to have done
ss,c' ; but even during the course of the present debate
""onourable Gentlemen must have heard many things
which should induce them to pause before they proceeded
to inculpate the Government for not bringing forward
aconclusive measure during this Session. But the
Government had only to choose between evils, hence ho
Would admit that it would be exceedingly gratifying if the
Government could have sent over to the Canadas a Bill
n 1 which that House, by consenting to the second reading,
had,i affirmed the two great principles of Union and of
Municipal Government. He would not occupy the at-
tentionof the House further than to express his hope that
they would consent to go into Committee on the present Bill
l Sir E.
„ SUGDEN was prepared to go every justifiable
Canada.eng‘u in F.upporting the Government in legislating for
I The Noble Lord had stated last year that in
fieg'sl,a';:ng for these colonies he was not prepared to sacri-
„?7 %fie French Canadians to British interests ; those were
:ure grounds on which he was prepared to act, and to give
every assistance to her Majesty's Government ; but al-
though he was prepared to do this, he was not prepared to
give any power to the Governor and Council which should
go directly against the interests or prejudices of the French
Canadians. The provisions of the present Bill were cal-
culated to rouse the feelings of the French Canadians, and
to produce an enmity between the two races, to which
Lord Durham had alluded in that Report, which he did not
understand until to-night, was to he henceforth the manual
of all Reformers in all colonies, although he did not know
how a confidential communication from a Governor of a
colony to her Majesty herself should become such a manual,
but the Noble Lord had expressed his opinion that there
enust be a conflict between the two races. The French
Canadians had abused their authority, and he would not
reinvest them with the power they had abused ; but whilst
he was prepared to coerce them as far as might
be necessary, he would not go beyond. Now, with
regard to tenures, the present Act proposed to give
the Governor in Council power to alter these tenures,
that was, to alter the laws affecting the property of
French Canadians. Would the House abandon its
legislative functions, and entrust them to the Governor
in Council. He knew very well the meaning of laying
the Bills on the table of that House; it was an indirect
day of doing that which if done should be done in a
direct manner. It was of vital i nportance that the French
Canadians should never have taken from them that law of
property which had been assured to them in the manner in
which it had been. On the conquest of the country it had
been made subject to the laws of England, but in 1774
an Act was passed reciting that the law of England had
been found so utterly inapplicable to the condition of the
French Canadians that it was necessary to restore to them
the Law of France, and they were now going to give the
Governor in Council power to alter all the tenures of the
French Canadians. This was unjust and impolitic. He
Would admit that feudal tenures were absurd in connection
with a liberal Constitution,but the absurdity was committed
1 by this country in giving them a liberal Constitution. The
French Canadians constituted five-sixths of the popula-
tion, and did the Noble Lord believe that when the Union
should take place these coercive laws would render
the French Canadians amenable to reason. He
thought the present law ought to be defined, instead
( of making this a supplemental Act to a measure which the
Noble Lord had stated it was his intention to introduce
next Session. If they gave their assent to the provisions
i of the present Bill the Noble Lord. would say next Session
that they haul pledged themselves to the projected Union.
He cautioned the House against placing themselves in
such_ a position. He thought it extremely wrong tie t the
House should be called upon to act upon papers that had
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