The Sun.
London, England, 1839-07-25 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

(Continued Nei 7+tip Sun of yesterday.) HOUSE OF COMMONS, JULY 24.
Mr. C.tereelen, thought no one could doubt they ought to Mr. SPEAKER took the chair at the usual hour.
take soma effective step for the purpose of informing the people Mr WALKER brought up the Report of the Conn.
of the facts of the case, and to do!) the best they could to rnitte¢. on the Bury Small Debts Bill.
e,
C. B. VERE presented a petition from a place in
or-
ganise the people between this and the 12th of next month. —(Cries of " Hear, hear.") They ought to lay down Suffolk in favour of the penny postage.
the best plan for unity of action, and do all that they could Arr. HAWES presented a petition from the chairman
to render the sacred month as little expensive as possible and committee of the licensed wine and spirit dealers of
to the people, and most likely to achieve the great object they the metropolis, against the Excise License ( Sale of Spirits)
hail in view. He could not support the amendment, because Bill; and a petition from a person named Macdonald,
it proposed to do what they had already appointed a Committee residing at Clapham, in favour of the penny postage.
to consider. The amendment was superfluous, but he should Mr. CLAY presented a petition from the Churchwar•
unquestionably support the motion. dens and Overseers of aparish in the Tower Hamlets,
Mr. WARDEN opposed both the motion and the amend- p
against the Collection of Rates Bill.
ment, because they both assumed a day ought not to be
fixed, as the evidence on which they ought to proceed was de-
FACTORIES BILL.
ficient. His opinion was that the time had arrived when the
Lord ASHLEY, seeing the Under-Secretary of State
e Departmenti in his place, wished to ask
placed. If they were not able to carry out that object, they
country ought to know the real position in which they were for
himthetor wßhilelth Herom i
to-morrow.t was hisntention to proceed with the Fac-
ought to declare their weakness and put their agitation on a y
new footing. Mr. O'Connor had made some very strong ob- i Mr. F. MAULE did not know whether he should go
sorvations on what he (11Ir. Warden) had said at Birmingham, on with the measure to-morrow, but it certainly was his
that a national strike was the signal for a national insurrection; intention, after the other business had been gone into, to have
but Mr. O'Connor should recollect he had been a reader of the a discussion as to what further proceedings should be taken
Northern Star, an dasht he had understoodndtood from that paper on the measure. He did not suppose they would be able
the whole country organized ar to the teeth.—
(Hear, hear.) Although he was not at all satisfied with to go into Committee as there was business of great im-
the evidence that had been given to the Delegates, nor at all portance fixed for tomorrow.
sanguine as to the success of the National Holiday, yet he be- Lord ASHLEY wished to know whether it was the
lieved that was the only means by which the real number of the intention Lord
Chadists would be known, and their determination be put to the provisions of the Bill children working in silk
the test. He did not believe the National Holiday would give factories?
rise to any disturbance. Mr. F. MAULE said that such was his intention.
Mr. O'CONNOR said there never had appeared in the columns Lord ASHLEY said that such being the case, he
of the Northern Star a declaration that the people were armed, begged leave to give notice that he should oppose such a
but on the contrary, a constant regret that the people were not suggestion every time it was brought before them, and
armed.
Mr. WARDEN had referred to the Reports of speeches that it was his determination to resort to every decent means to
the Hon. Gentleman.
had appeared in that paper. thwart
Mr. F. MAULS was not at el surprised at the oppo-
Dr. M'DOUALL would not vote for the amendment on the
motion. sition of the Noble Lord, but it was his intention to perse-
Mr. SMA RT believed the people did not possess sufficient vere in the course he had chalked out. If the silk factories
moral and physical strength to carry out the sacred month to were included in the Bill, it would not be likely to pass
the extent that was desirable, and therefore he should support this Session ; therefore it was that he had thought it right
the amendment of Mr. O'Connor. • to exclude them at present, intending next Session to bring
Mr. O'BrirEN replied. His resolutions were only intended in a Bill for putting them under the same regulations.
to operate as a warning to the people. Mr. Neesom had said Lord G. SOMERSET considered it was but just to
that he (Mr. O'Brien) was not in his place at Birmingham at state that the exclusion, for the present, of the silk facto-
a time when he ought to have been. All lie (Mr. ries had not been the proposal of the Hon. Under- Secre-
O'Brien) could say was, that he had been engaged tar but had been a suggestion acceded to by him, in
elsewhere doing the work of the Convention ; but had he
le to the success of the Bill.'r
been at Birmingham, he would not have run away on the first ore
symptom of danger as some one else had done.—(A laugh.) Mr. BRINES was of opinien that the Bill had better
Perhaps that gentleman thought discretion was the better part be postponed till next Session. The Hon. Member was
of valour, and recollecting that proceeding to make a statement, when
" He who fights and runs away Mr. WALLACE rose to order, and
Will live to fight another day; The SPEAKER said the lion. Member certainly had no
But he who is in battle slain right to address the House.—( Hear, hear.)
Will never live to fight again," Mr. BAINES said, as there was no question before the
had decamped from the scene of action, and thought that "self. House—( Laughter and cries of " Order, order.")
preservation was the first law of nature. "__(Laughter.)
TREATMENT OF MESSRS. LOVETT AND
Mr. NEESOIII--,i rise to order.—(Order, order.) I consider
these observations are shameful.—( Great laughter.) COLLINS.
Sir E. WILMOT asked if there would be any
Mr. O'BRIEN hoped Mr. Neesom would not discompose him-
self, for he would not pursue that subject further, as it appeared objection to the laying on the table the Report of the Visit-
to be very disagreeable to that gentleman.—(Laughter.) He ing Justices, as to the alleged ill-treatment of Messrs.
should not have mentioned it had Mr. Neeson net said a great Lovett and Collins.
deal about timidity and cowardice. He should abide by his Mr. F. MAULE replied in the negative.—Ordered
resolutions, because he did not wish to issue commands that he that the Report be produced.
knew would not be obeyed. He would just observe, in refe- Mr. H UME presented a petition from Limerick, in
rence to what had been said about the people being armed, that favour of the penny postage. Also, a petition from the
he believed Mr. O'Connor had never said they were armed, but Aberdeen Artisans' Association, complaining f o the B. 11111-
had always contended that until the people were armed
throughout the country, they would never get Universal Suf- ingham affair.
would
frage ; or that if they did get it, Mr. FIELDEN presented a petition from 104 special
they not be able to
keep it.constables of a parish in Lancashire, representing that it
'I he amendment was then put from the chair, and there ap- would be in vain to attempt by force to maintain tranquil-
peered—lity in the country unless the grievances of the people were
For the amendment 8 redressed. He moved that the petition be read by the
Against it '
Majority against the amendment —3 The petition having been read, .
Did not vote
The motion was then put, and there were—
..
12 6 Mr. FIELDEN moved that it be printed, and gave
For the motion . .
notice that he should move that it be taken into considcra-
Against it
lion on Tuesday next.
6
Majority for the motion —6 Mr. HUME asked if the dropped orders of last night
Declined to vote 7 were now be taken into consideration.
Mr. O'BRIEN then moved, which was seconded by Mr. The SPEAK ER said they could be read after the
O'Connor, that a Committee of five be appointed to draw up an notices of motion.
address in conformity with Mr. O'Brien s resolution. Mr. HUME thought the dropped orders ought to have
Mr. OSBORNE moved as an amendment, seconded by Mr. precedence.—(Order, order.)
Neesom, that a Committee of the whole Convention be ap- Lord JOHN RUSSELL thought it would be better
pointed for that purpose.
For the amendment that the usual course should pe pursued, and that it would Against it
Majority
Declined to vote
For the motion
Against it
4 the Board of Guardians of the Union of Lambeth, relative
Majority
Declined to vote
Messrs. O'Connor, O'Brien, Mealing, Lowrey,
and Dr. Mr. BAINES moved for returns of the proceedings of
Fletcher were then nominated to draw up the Address, but the Tithe Commutation Commissioners in continuation of
Mr. OSBORNE moved, seconded by Mr. O'Coe NOR, " That certain returns already made, and also for a return of the
the Committee be ballotted for." This was carried, and the quantity of wheat, barley, and other grain produced during
ballot having been taken, the election fell upon Messrs. Nee-
som, O'Connor, O'Brien, Lowrey, and Dr. Fletcher. the last year, in the several parishes of England and Wales,
After some discussion, it was agreed that the Committee so far as the same can be ascertained.
appointed on a former day for fixing the day on which the Na- Mr. HUME gave notice that on Tuesday next, he
tional Holiday should be kept, and making arrangements for should move that the House do enforce its order of the
the same, be merged into the Committee now appointed. 14th March last, relative to certain returns ordered from
Dr. Feercnee gave notice that he should to-morrow move the Royal Academy.
" That a Committee of five be appointed to draw up an address The dropped notices of motion of yesterday were then
fairly stating to the country the impossibility of any unanimity read over for the purpose of being replaced on the books.
of action on the part of the Convention, as regards the National SOAP DUTIES.
Holiday, in consequence of the great diversity of opinion amongst The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHE Q U E R hoped
us—the fact that the evidence before us does not justif
Y no objection would be made to his bringing in a Bill to
the expectation that any great portion of the country will join remove legal doubts as to the mode of taking the duties
in keeping the sacred month, and that consequently it must
on soap, which stood for yesterday. It was sanctioned by
remain for the different localities to determine, when
their Delegates lay the evidence before them, whether all
parties connected with the manufacture of that article.
it be advisable to commence the holiday, and further _
For the last century and a half the soap duties had been
stating our decided opinion that any riots, or acts of violence, or levied by measurement or gauge, but a doubt had lately
plunder, would be destructive in their consequences to the par. arisen as to whether the duties should not be taken by
ties engaged in them, and probably end in the hopeless ruin of weight,e The result of that would be to introduce a note
our cause:"
and very inconvenient system, and one of lie objects of
The Convention then adjourned.
the Bill was to sanction the practice which had been
already observed. The other object was with respect to
the drawback, which was, from the use of improper mate-
rials making the soap heavier, often much higher than the
parties were legally entitled to.
r Leave was then given to bring in the Bill.
SUPPLY—REPORT.
Mr. BERNAL brought up the Report of the Committee
of Supply. •
On the first vote, 84.0004 for public buildings, being read,
ROYAL ACADEMY.
Mr. HUME begged to call the attention of the House
to the notice which he had given on the subject of the Royal 11
Academy. The Academy had refused to give any return
of their expenditure, although they enjoyed advantages
which were conferred on no other public body. It was
attempted to be argued that although they occupied a
building the rent of which was valued at 3,5001., that
they were not receiving public assistance. The whole
of the National Gallery was wanted by the public for the
exhibition of pictures, and unless they obeyed the orders of
the House they ought to be turned out.—( Hear.) He
wished to state these matters, lest he should not have an
opportunity of doing soon Tuesday next ; and in order that
her Majesty's Government might be aware of the improper
proceedings of the Royal Academy, which was imitating
the conduct of Stockdale in resisting the orders of the
House. He hoped the subject would be fully discussed
on Tuesday next.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL could not in the absence of
the Hon. Baronet, the Member for the University of Ox-
ford, know the reasons of his opposition to the motion,
but he would ask the House to suspend its judgment until
they heard his statement. The Hon. Member said the
Academy had refused to give any information to the House.
Now there were two ways of doing so—they might refuse
altogether to do so, but that they had not done.
but by their petition they put it to the discretion of the
House, whether, they having already given all the infor-
mation required to the Secretary for the Home Depart-
ment, it was necessary to fure.sil it again, and they prayed
the House to rescind the order they had made.
Mr. ESTCOURT complained of the motion being
made in the absence of his Honourable Colleague
as the notice of the Hon. Gentleman had been followed for
weeks by one to rescind the order. He had no doubt his
Right Hon. Friend could show sufficient grounds for the
nonproduction of the accounts.
Mr. HUME said the Hon. Gentleman, as well as the
Noble Lord, had misunderstood him. What he wanted
was, that the Goverment should turn the interlopers out
of the building—( A laugh)—so that accommodation might
be given to the visitors of the National Gallery.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said,
the Hon. Gentleman assumed, for the purposes of his ar-
gument, that the Royal Academy had permanent apart-
ments assigned them. He for one would be sorry to dis-
turb them in their possession, but the apartments given
them in Somerset-House were a mere loan, and could be
resumed at any moment the Crown thought necessary.
When the transfer took place it was distinctly understood
that they held their present apartments by no
better title, and that was admitted in the petition.
He thought these returns involved very great considera-
ions, and hoped the matter would be discussed on Tues.

METROPOLITAN POLITICAL
SUMMARY.

The Courier of last evening thus speaks of the Earl of
Clarendon's speech on Tuesday in the House of Lords :
The Earl of Clarendon, whose conduct, while he re-
presented his Sovereign at the Spanish Court, won for him
golden opinions from all those to whom the cause of free-
dom is dear, met the attack with a speech that leads us to
entertain the most sanguine expectations of his Lordship's
future career. He replied in a triumphant manner to all
the foul abuse which the Tories have, from time to time,
heaped upon the Spanish nation, for the sacrifices which
that nation has made, and continues to make, in the cause
of religious liberty."
The Globe, alluding to some recent proceedings in the
Lords, says :—" There is much stir, and we suspect some
mischief, going on among the Tories. Their sportsmen,
magistrates, agriculturists, on the eve of flying to their
races, their sessions, and their beasts, have been suddenly
stopped. The whole brood are cooped up and make a sad
cackling every evening in the House of Lords. One might
suppose the geese were really busy in saving the Capitol, but
by the manner they pounced on the carrion of Birmingham it
is to be inferred that they are more intent on fouling the nest
and confounding than on assisting those who are placed to
protect it. The hawks among them, such as Lords
Brougham and Lyndhurst, are busy on their legs in more
than a Parliamentary sense—runniHg backwards and for-
wards incessantly, whispering each other and other Peers.
All this, together with the eagerness shown to aggravate
the Birmingham calamity, the mysterious motion an-
nounced by Lord Brougham, seems to forbode some fresh
assault, but the most skilful may overshoot their mark."
The Standard observes, in an article on Tuesday night's
debate in the Commons, on the subject of the Birmingham
police force :—" Sir R. Peel repeated his objection to the
employment of the London police at Birmingham, sup-
porting that objection by arguments which admirably illus-
trate the dangers of resorting to Lord John Russell's
scheme of an ambulatory police ; upon which scheme we
ventured to offer opinions that we are proud to see confirmed
by the high authority of the Right Hon. Baronet. Sir Ro-
bert, also, with equal truth and vigour, traced the late dis-
turbances at Birmingham to the incendiary practices, of
which that town has been made the theatre from 18.31
downward: Lord John Russell scarcely ventured to de-
fend the scheme of an ambulatory police, but ascribed the
disturbances at Birmingham principally to the agitation
against the New Poor-law, prosecuted 150 miles north of
Birmingham by Mr. Oastler and others. This trick was
defeated by Mr. Fielden and Mr. T. Attwood, who re-
minded the Noble Lord that there had been no Anti-
Poor-law agitation in Birmingham."

ASSIZE INTELLIGENCE.

HOME CIRCUITII MAIDSTONE, JULY 24.
CROWN COURT.
Charles Rowe, ayoung man very respectably connected,
at Maidstone, was indicted for stealing a 10/. Bank of
England note, the property of • Mr. Stevens, solicitor of
that town, in whose service he was employed as clerk.
The prisoner held a handkerchief to his face and wept
bitterly during the proceedings.
It appeared that the prisoner had been employed by
Mr. Stevens in a confidential capacity, but in consequence
of some matters which came to that gentleman's know-
ledge, he was induced to mark a number of Bank notes,
which he placed in the cash box, in his office on the 3d of
July. On the 17th of the s•ime month, he missed the
note in question from among them, and it appeared that
on the next day the prisoner obtained change for the note
from Mr. Spencer, the landlord of the Mitre Tavern.
A number of highly-respectable witnesses were called,
who gave the prisoner an excellent character for honesty.
The Jury returned a verdict of Guilty, coupled with a
strong recommendation to mercy, in which the prosecutor
also joined.

day next.
The report was then agreed to.
Lord GRANVILLE SOMERSET wished to ask the
Noble Lord when he intended again to proceed with the
Poor-law Bill; when the clause which the Noble Lord had
stated he would intreduce into that Bill, in consequence
of the decision the House came to on Saturday, would be
laid before the House ; and whether that clause would in-
clude widows as well as able-bodied labourers ?
Lord JOHN RUSSELL hoped to be able to proceed
with the Bill on Friday. The clause would include
widows as well as able-bodied labourers, and had been
been drawn, but on its being laid before him, it did not ap-
pear to him to be satisfactorily worded, and he had there-
fore requested it should be redrawn. In all probability it
would be laid on the table that evening.
Mr. FIELDEN wished to know whether the Noble
Lord intended offering any objection to a Committee
being appointed to inquire into the petition he had pre-
sented relative to the Caxton and Harrington Union ?
Lord J. RUSSELL said that he had mentioned on a
former occasion that a statement had been transmitted to
him with regard to the case; and that if the House thought
it required inquiry, he should not object to it next Session,
but considered it too late for the present Session.
Mr. FIELDEN said it would not take a long time.
The husband of the woman was now confined as a rogue
and vagabond. The family were starving ; and if the in-
quiry were put off, the death of the whole family might
be occasioned.—( Order.)
The SPEAKER said the Hon. Member having already
spoken, was not entitled to speak a second time.
Mr. DENNISON was happy to hear that the Hon.
Member for Oldham intended in future to look more mi-
nutely into the petitions which were sent to him fur presenta-
tion. He would take the liberty of reading an extract from
a letter which he had received from a Magistrate of the
county, a gentleman of the highest character, talent, and
respectability, whom he hoped one day to have the pleasure
of seeing in the House.---( Laughter.) The writer stated
that amongst the petitions presented by Mr. Fielden re-
specting the Poor-law, he observed one from eighty-three
mechanics and labourers of Seale. He had made some in-
quiries respecting the petition, and' was informed that it
was got up by a person who had lately avowed himself
a Chartist. It set forth that the misery of the me-
chanics and labourers, and the crimes attributed to them
arose from the distress occasioned by the New Poer.law ;
but perhaps Mr. Fielden was not aware that the inhabi-

The Court took time to consider what judgment it should
pronounce.
The cases that have been disposed of in the Nisi Prius
Court were totally devoid of interest. The case of John
Harding Palmer, the returning officer, who stands charged
for manslaughter, in causing the removal of a pauper from
one parish to another, at a time when she was seriously ill,
appears to create a good deal of interest. It is said that
some difficulty has arisen as to the framing the indictment,
the question being altogether a novel one.

PESTII, JULY 12.—According to an official
statement just published, the subscriptions received for the
relief of the sufferers by the inundation last year, amount
in all to 1,158,290 florins (Convention money.) The loss
which the country suffered is stated at 28,540,000 florins,
C. M. Of this sum 20.000,000 fall on the City of Pesth,
1,900,000 on Ofen, and 1,600,000 on Gran. Of the sub-
scriptions 858,859 florins have been distributed in Pestb,
88,765 florins in Ofen, 50,317 florins in Gran, 'the re-
mainder in the country. Contributions still come in from
Ofen, wll begin to ply
next week.
time to time. The Argus,
a new steamboat, built at Old
i
"lie (Dublin) Pilot,
monopoly, says that the Post's observations on the übject
speaking of the Bank
have a tendency to create a false feeling of security.
We tell the. pe?ple not to be deceived. There is yet
enough of hesitation arising from
Rice's plan already manifested t the opposition to Mr
o cause him to de if
that spirit becomes ore fervent ; but if there be theree
falling off, theleas
mischief will be done past rccal."

Mr: LABOUCHER,E said representations had been
made to the Colonial-office, showing that the system al-
luded to was one well deserving of the attention of the
Government. No exertion on the part of the Govern.
mcnt would be wanting to put an end to it.
Lord G. SOMERSET Was it a fact that such a
system prevailed ? Were the captured slaves apprenticed
in the manner stated ?
Mr. L A BOUCHF.R.E—Certainly. Such are the re-
presentations made to the Government.
The resolution was then agreed to.
On the vote for paying the Inspectors of Prisons
being put,
Air. HUME begged to ask whether the Inspectors of
Prisons had power over the rules and regulations of pri-
sons ? If they had, they neglected their duty in such a
case as that which had lately taken
Warwick. place in the county of
Lord JOHN RUSSELL thought the case of War-
wick had better be reserved until it came regularly before
the House.—( Hear, hear.) It was the duty of Magis-
trates to send a copy of their Rules and Regulations
annually to the Secretary of State, and he generally re-
ferred them to the Home Inspectors of Prisons.
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that before the dropped
Orders of the Day were read, be would take the opportu-
nity of statinc, that as there was scarcely any private busi-
ness before the' House, it would be for the general con-
venience of Members that as soon after four o'clock
as the private business and petit:ons were disposed of,
the House should proceed to public business. Members
would then be more likely to come down, and there would
be less chance of the House being counted out when it was
known that public business would be taken early..( Hear,
bear, hear.)

BIRMINGHAM.
Sir FRANCIS BURDETT wished to ask the Noble
Lord when the papers respecting the Birmingham riots
would be laid before the House, because he thought some
discussion on the subject was necessary, notwithstanding
the lateness of the Session.

Lord J. RUSSELL replied that no papers respecting
the Birmingham riots, that he was aware of, were to be laid
before the House.

Sir F. BURDETT—The Noble Lord promised the
lists of the Magistrates.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL had written to the Lord
Chancellor, stating that he thought it would be desirable
that the lists of the Magistrates should be laid before the
House.

NUR.
illdUtSo,
ask the Under Sir S. LUSHINGTMOA
Se-
cretary for the Colonial Department whethe rhe had re-
ceived any despatches from the island of Mauritius giving
an authentic account of the slaves of that colony having
been actually emancipated, and whether any of the Orders
in Council had been carried into effect, and whether bene-
ficially or not?
Mr. LABOUCHERE said the last despatches from
the Mauritius were dated 2d April, and stated that on the
31st March the final and complete emancipation of the ap-
prentices took place.—( Hear, hear.) As only a few days
had elapsed, of course no full information could be given
as to the effect of the measure; but as far as had been
ascertained, it had been most satisfaetery—( Hear,
hear)—the only difference being a slight disposition on the
part of the negroes, tc leave the estates on which they
had been hitherto located. The Orders in Council had
been published a week or so previous—(as to vagrancy,
labour, marriage, &c. )—but owing to the shortness of
the interval, no information could be given as to the effects.
Colonel B R 0 WNRIGG had recived letters a fortnight
later than the despatches from the Mauritius, and they
stated that the emancipation had been effected most
hear.) The negroes had
peaceably.—( Hear,everywhere
returned to work—though they manifested considerable
suspicion of long engagements thinking them equivalent
to slavery--( Hear, hear.) They, however,l had been
contented to be engaged at a months' notice, and on wages
so reasonable, as to lead to a_considerable diminution of
expense to the proprietors. —( Hear, hear.)
Sir J. GRAHAM said, the question brought a painful
subject to his mind—and he wished to know from the
Under Secretary for the Colonies, if .the statements were
correct, as to the mortality among the Hill Coolies in De-
merara, and if any steps bad been taken by the Govern-
ment to rescind their contracts. Also, if there had been
any information as to the state of these persons in the
Mauritius.
would answer the last question
Mr. LABOUCHERE
of the Hon. Member, relative to the condition of the Hill ,
Coolies in the Island of Mauritius first. He was happpy
to say that the accounts as to the condition of the
Hill Coolies in that Island were on the whole
exceedingly favourable. With regard to the Hill
Coolies imported into the colony of Demerara
he imagined the Right Hon. Gentleman must allude to the
reports which had appeared 111 the newspaperi. There
information received had been no positive on the subject at
the Colonial-office. With regard to the estate of Bel-
mont, accounts had been received at the Colonial-office to
the effect that on that particular estate, owing to the
neglect of the medical attendant, the Hill Coolies had